20 Episode results for "B. N. H"

 Carnivals Panama Problem  HBOs Hulu coup. McCormick spices seesaw situation. And Carnivals bailout problem.

Snacks Daily

20:15 min | 1 year ago

Carnivals Panama Problem HBOs Hulu coup. McCormick spices seesaw situation. And Carnivals bailout problem.

"This is nick this is Jack and this is snacks daily. It is Thursday April second Dow dipped by a thousand points yesterday nonetheless. Yup I'm like yesterday. This is actually the best one. Yeah yesterday's was the worst one yet. That was also an April Fools Joke. That apparently nobody got right. Nobody tweeted at us. We expected some people to will forget about it. And let's move out. We sewage under appreciated. And in the meantime we made this one way better than whatever it was. We did yesterday our first story. You already knew that. Carnival cruises had serious problems. We're talking crashed. Ships quarantined ships and that overall empty and not cruising ship. Now it is managed to somehow have a uniquely worse situation than we even realize turns out. This company is not bailout eligible our second story. Hbo Just made a critical new hire the HR team just snag the Hulu founder to Hbo Max CEO. This guy is bringing new school media talent at the most perfect moment for HP turns out April is launch your own streaming service month. Who had any idea? 35-story McCormick has been making spices. Since the days of your great great great grandparents got baby spicy at support spice scary spice ginger spice. Now you've got McCormick spice. This publicly traded salt and Pepper Company. Perfectly leads one side effect of the corona economy. We're talking about the see-saw situation. We kind of made that up but we noticed. It's a thing now before we jump into all that Jack and I talk a lot about how appreciative of a bunch of things right now. My favorite part of my day whipping up the context and whipping up the takeaways. Right here on snacks daily for you every day. We also happen to love our plant based self-driving streaming network delivery APPs. That are all over the news right now but we also love connecting with snappers. Not just in a one way scenario of Nick and me talking to you through this podcast little indirect and we want to have a little bit more of a relationship with your during these strange and hard times so Jack and I sat down gun front of a fire whipped up some Kombucha and came up with the idea of something new. We're calling snacks breaks. This is an online event on zoom. Between you and US. We're going to be whipping up our three mega takeaways. We've put together on the corona economy so far in our first ever live about like this march was a crazy month and actually April could be even worse. So we're taking this moment to connect with you talk about the economy. Talk about markets. Talk about the situation. We also made it. It's going to be free. It's going to be super easy to join go. One simple website. Rb HD DOT CO slash. Snacks Dash. Break. Now snacker yeah. That was a tough wonder. Remember we actually wrote down that link in description of this episode impressive if you happen to write it down to yourself but we typed it up for you in the description. Seek be happy by the way like half of this event. Which is Friday afternoon at three o'clock eastern time? Half of the event is going to be you asking US questions about like whatever you want. News wise now. We can't promise there will be no Zumbado. We can promise that we will have facial hair because we haven't shaved in a month. We're like bears for the bear market. It's kind of life goal. We're really excited for this next break. We hope you check us out Friday afternoon at three o'clock eastern time. It's GonNa be the best one. Yeah it's also going to be the first one. Yeah now one more time. That link is our be an HD dot co slash snacks dash break daily snacks about the rain food candy. They don't reflect. The views of robinhood families informational so recommending any securities. It's not a research report or investment advice to offer or sale of security that's next digestive. Gupta Business News video financial LLC member Finbar's last SIPC our first story Jack. Whip your face out of the all. You can eat ice cream buffet over there. I love those self-serve saucer. Dozen cruises awkwardly realized. It's not bailout eligible so it's desperately borrowing money and it's literally mortgaging away. It's crucial this is like the data plan months ago. You show up to the concert. You go to pull out. The tickets turns out. You didn't print them. This is like my recurring nightmare. Which I'm ADN away football game and I forgot all my equipment at home. Get back on the bus. It's a long drive back now. Vermont. It's also the equivalent of. Hey I'm carnival cruises can I please borrow one hundred dollars sure? What can you offer as collateral pretty much just a bunch of tower sized cruise ships that you can't do anything with that's literally what's happening right now at Carnival cruises we've gone over the not fun. Anti Resume Carnival cruises lately. What's happened so far this year so far. It had a fender bender in a Mexican Harbert. Between two tower sized cruise ships belong to Carnival cruise and then three of its ships got turned into quarantine hotels because the cove in nineteen outbreaks. Well Carnival will be fine because there was this huge stimulus package and part of it's a government bailout right. Yeah everything will be fine. Everything's GonNa be no. Nothing is going to be fine in. This situation. Turns out like the entire cruise industry. Although there are offices headquarters are in Miami Florida. They're technically incorporated in Panama. Interesting sneaky. Little move there because that way they can avoid. Us minimum wage laws while they're at sea and then pay fewer taxes and it turns out only US based companies can get the emergency loans and bailouts. That are part of the two trillion dollar stimulus been. We're talking about the kind of like corporate work here that the lawyers over Carnival got a really nice bonus for pulling off and do not see this situation coming seriously. Backfiring Jacqueline I found fascinating about this. Is that it really. Is a unique situation carnivals getting no US business for the foreseeable future and it's getting no bailout funds from the US and then yet every month it has giant debt repayments. It has to do because those ships that cruises on cost about two billion dollars each. They borrowed to pay for them. Yeah you're not gonNA just drop cash on this thing and walk away with two billion dollars cruiser so they have to borrow even more to bail themselves out of this deep pickle that Oh and in terms of timing that means they're taking on debt at the worst possible moment. Carnival is asking investors to lend it three billion dollars and these lenders are like they know the situations risky. So they're offering a very casual interest rate of twelve and a half percent to pay back those loans. That is brutally high. I think we can all realize that plus carnival is offering a very unique type of hard collateral if carnival can't payback the money to the investors. It'll give away its cruise ships instead. Which is the big question if you're lending to accompany carnival who actually wants a crucial potentially as collateral. You basically need your own Great Lake just to park this. It's bigger than a football field. It's bigger than like the football season and you basically don't know where to put it now. The way this will really go down. A lawyer will be designated to represent all the investors. And it'll do. Its best to find somebody to buy these cruise ships and then split the money across all the lenders. We basically thought of three options here. The first one is China. They'll probably just by this because it'd be cool to half China's probably going to become a cruise company now or maybe Elon. Musk buys these cruise ships interesting so that it can destroy them because they are horrible for the environment. Third Auctioneer throwing it out there maybe oprah. She's got some stuff to do with their cash. That's a good option. So Jack what's the takeaway for our buddies over at Carnegie if only carnival weren't based in Panama knackers. You think of it that much but your headquarters. Kinda matters and American companies right now have five hundred billion available as part of this stimulus bill. We told you companies that borrow through the stimulus bill. They can take super low interest rates on one condition. You don't buy your own stock because that's not a cool move while you're borrowing money from taxpayers and since carnivals technically not American. It's basically wrapping up like a horrible credit card bill until the cruise industry returns to normal whenever the album and if the cruise industry doesn't return to normal it'll lose all of its ships and no ships are kind of only important to the cruise industry for our second story. Hbo Max Just Hired Hulu founder as its new HBO MAXI. This is a month before enters the epoch streaming wars. But before we jump into all that we've got to talk in prose and let you know. It is April which is national poetry month McDowell. Those a disgrace to the poacher. But my goal is to memorize one poem from Robert Frost and or one poem from Waldwick. Jack I got a better set up for you. I actually wrote you a surprise Haiku snacker. I didn't tell Jack this before. The pod ready to hear this thing ready to go ahead. Here's this next. You'll hear Chris very nervous. We speak you. Listen but what do microphones thing. Is it their teaboy? Bravo snacks. Tweet it out tomorrow. That's actually really good. In the meantime it also happens to be national. Tv binging months. Yeah poetry's gray. Tv binging is available for everybody right now and they're all doing also it happens to be part of the national launch your randomly named streaming service season. Which is going on right now exhibit AAC quimby which launches April. Fix Your Binge on your phone. It's five bucks a month but they want with Casper Mattress. Dial Ninety Day for retrial is a generous free trial. I think it's going to have all of America's customers for at least ninety days number two you got. Nbc's Peacock Launch April fifteen only for comcast cable users doesn't launch April fifteenth and then in July. It's happening for everyone else. Who's human being? This is the only place you'll be able to get parks and REC parks and REC. Emmy office I think are leaving up not too shabby and then finally rounding all this out for the season you've got. Hbo Max to be named HBO. Max COMING OUT IN LATE. May At fifteen bucks a month sounds pricey but let's be honest it's not. Dv H they can get away with a lot. We're not going to give you a raise. Janna because we're now adding onto the national crisis is that friends is not available to stream on any platforms until HBO Max Launch. There is literally like a friend's hole in the economy right now going on. I know an editorial note to the The people that HBO. Maybe you should have moved up. Your launch date from late. May to like right now because we can all really us. Hbo Maxim France Hall. The marketing team. This seems to be the moment. In the meantime we're going to sprinkle a little bit of context on what's going on with. Hbo Max that you should definitely know. Hbo USED TO BE A part of time. Warner and Time Warner got acquired by. At and T. Couple years ago in two thousand eighteen so facto transit of property that thing that means. Hbo is owned by a t and t the telecom company right and HBO's leader its longtime leader was a guy named Richard Pleasure. Who's responsible for? Game of thrones not bad. Why impressive little lies and a whole bunch of other top shelf binging content? The only problem was after. Hbo GOT ACQUIRED BY AT and T. The NEW AT and T. Corporate Parent wanted to change the beautiful. Hbo. He basically said we want more quantity less quality. Be More like that. Flex they're like. Can we stretch out? This game of thrones dating spin off with wives of West arose going on my third day dragons. Who Am I giving my dragons to so Richard Platt per was basically like I'm out of here that's the plumper left in the meantime just yesterday. Hbo Max Finally announced a new leader for Warner media which is at and T.'s. Division doing a lot of stuff like streaming video which is HBO. You got movies. Which is Warner Brothers and cable? Tv CNN TBS. Enter Hulu founder. Jason Co are taken the position. Pretty sure it's pronounced killer. Jason Killer nickname their run with Jason Jack. What's the takeaway for our buddies? Who are definitely not TV over at HBO Max. At and T. Is An old school company. That really need some new school town. Eighteen knackers it. Ceo and COO are exactly what you'd imagine the to look pretty much NBA holding conservative suit. Where Time Company and streaming is the future of media but they don't have the streaming town right now to jump on that Future Lar- Aka. The killer was at Amazon for nine years before founding. Hulu in two thousand seven. Which was a godsend to nick and me when we were freshmen year roommates at Middleburg streaming a real large amount of family guy in that thing in the meantime who's become owned by Disney and NBC and Fox jointly right now who just owned by Disney. But it shows that killer knows how to handle like different power people in the media industry as important our buddy Jay. The killer had this court in two thousand eleven. That basically summed up the whole thing. It was a criminal. History has shown that incumbents tend to fight trends that challenge their established ways and in the process they lose focus on what matters most customers. At and T. Needs a little bit of this guy snacks. We get a little update here. We're a little over halfway done today. Snacks Daily Pot. So if you're doing snacks challenge and seeing how far you can run in the first one episode exhausted all right time to turn around and run back and you gotta go back. Take a water break. Do yourself a favor. We're going to hit our third story. Mccormick spices is having a seesaw Korean. Economy Moment Little Bit. Good Yup a little bit of bad. It's a see saw moment. Snacker every kitchen should probably have a drawer stuff with McCormick. You know your mom would want it that. I can't believe this is a publicly traded stock on Wall Street. You've got aggressive kitchen real estate. We're talking Oregano turmeric curry paste coriander seeds. We've got curry powder. I have no idea why because we have the seeds. Knicks always picking the fancy stuff. I like this Real Essex Salt and Pepper Combo back for like ninety nine every grocery store. Knacker is a little spoiler alert. Here Jack. Scott. The taste buds of like a three year old. Turtle Connoisseurs Bison now. This company is proudly based in Baltimore Maryland since eighteen eighty nine where. They've been making spices mixed with Lacrosse. Sticks from like the Solvent School State Law requires a fifteen minute. Break every four hours of work so you can sprinkle some old ban. That's a critical thing now. The biggest flaw on the resume for McCormick is the one thousand nine hundred sixteen. Us Borough of chemistry investigation were investigated for black pepper purity problem. They called us at McCormick pepper and they don't like talking about him. We've actually shouldn't even abroad. Most famous product of McCormack in my opinion is old bay which is like in the state constitution of now about a quarter of its business is not spices but like condiments right they got Franks red hot sauces made by McCormick and French's classic yellow mustard. The rest of its business is like some fancy kind of custom stuff going on that you wouldn't expect them to be gotta section of their website bragging that they've teamed up with IBM on artificial intelligence. It all seems like they're overselling because basically they're just like helping you can cock special sauces like McDonald's special sauce if you're the cheesecake factory you need Salinas. Sprinkle on your stuff. You're going to the guys at McCormick. The earnings report for McCormick and its annual report. They show a helpful breakdown of the business. This is funny thing. We noticed about the annual report though. Is They actually show? What's in the gift bag for all the shareholder in ten dis and last year they were giving away truffle. Salt just want to point that out as an adorable detail to include an annual bar. The other thing we noticed when we jumped into the earnings report is that they love saying flavoring. The future pretty much as often as they can say this we noticed that McCormick is always playing a supporting role in whatever it is. They got a big picture of Sushi. But then the little sesame seeds there by McCormick. They got a delicious looking chicken leg with the barbecue sauce that McCormick spice third cameraman at the end of the movies. Like please wait till you see all the credits. He could see my name. Deborah you see the second thing. We noticed that was helpful. Is that the businesses pretty evenly balanced. If you look at the earnings about half of its business is homegoods sales like to you and your pantry and then half of its business is away from home like restaurants and caterers. Now it's expecting some interesting differences between the two for example. It's expecting double digit sales growth for home consumption business because there's all sorts of pantry. Hoarding going on because people are cooking at home during the recession and during the public health crisis but restaurants sales for McCormick are expected to plummet cheesecake. Factory has furloughed like its entire workforce. It's telling landlord is not even GONNA pay rent. Even mom and pop restaurants are shutting down and knock cooking. That means less spices that McCormack selling out to restaurants and other right so good business for the bad business for the away from home overall. This is a net negative for McCormick because it sales are down to percents. So Jack what's the takeaway for buddies flavor and flavor the future over McCormick McCormick's experiencing a classic see-saw situation knackers see-saw situation. You're gonNA start seeing this Yang Yang in around with a bunch of other companies right now. One side of the business is surprisingly surge in the krone economy but the other side of the business plummet four example. We've noticed pay pal seen a surge in people wanting to digitally or with touches payments but that's offset by the fact that fewer people are buying things in general overall transactions. Are going down so snappers when you hear that. One company's business is living. Its best life in the krone economy. Don't just settle for that information. There could be another side of the story where part of its business living. Its worst like sick. See-saw Situation Jack in your whip the salt and pepper and tell us the takeaways over there. Carnival cruise is cannot borrow money or accept bailout funds from the government because it's technically Panamanian impressive move to dodge labor laws and taxes. A really bad move if you eventually needed a bailout. Hp MAX LAUNCHES NEXT MONTH SODAS HBO. Max's new top guy. The founder of Hulu Jason Collage. Hey there killer. At and T.'s. And Old Media Company that needs some new media town energy four third and final story. I can't emphasize this. Salt and pepper is the best products of McCormick. It's been seizing scrambled eggs. Since the nineteenth century half of his businesses gaining half is falling it's a classic see-saw situation now snack time for a snack back today. This one sent in by Catherine Bill. Who is doing incredible work as a position in Detroit? Yes Detroit home of Henry Ford Hospital which fun fact is where my Nanna was born. We've got fun. Facts on snack bags. Inside of this Tax Katherine tells us the first ventilators crucial medical device that is in huge demand to fight cove in Nineteen. The first ventilators came out in nineteen twenty eight and they were known back then as iron lungs but there. I use back then was patients who were struggling to breathe because of polio. Interestingly those polio ventilators they use negative pressure but today's ventilators use positive pressure. GonNa leave it at that because we don't know what that means. I am glad Catherine is the physician and not US smackers. Love being with you today but we want to see you tomorrow at Three PM. Eastern with our snacks breaks. You can register at our B. N. H. E. DOT co slash snacks dash and to make it as easy as possible. We threw up there right in the description of today's podcast. You can click register. We will see you tomorrow. Can't wait this is Jack. I must confess I own stock of carnival. Cruise the robinhood snacks podcast. You just heard reflects the opinions of only the host who are associated persons of Robinhood Financial Llc and does not reflect the views of robinhood markets. Inc Her any of its subsidiaries or affiliates. The podcast is for informational purposes. Only and is not intended to serve as a recommendation to buy or sell any security and is not an offer sale of a security. The podcast is also not a research report and is not intended to serve as the basis of any investment decision robinhood financial LLC member Finra SIPC.

Jason Jack Hbo McCormick Hbo Hulu US founder Carnival HP nick football Max Pepper Company McCormick McCormick McCormick pepper Nbc China Robinhood Financial Llc Detroit
"Project Productive - Digitize Family Memories" - TDS Photo Podcast

The Digital Story

28:39 min | 1 year ago

"Project Productive - Digitize Family Memories" - TDS Photo Podcast

"This digital story podcast number seven thirty four April fourteenth. Two Thousand Twenty. Today's theme is project productive. Digitize Family Memories I'm Jerry store most of us have at least another month indoors so I designed a four week online course then. I think most of the Tigers will find extremely satisfied. Finally getting to those shoe boxes of family photos. That need to be organized digitized and catalog. We're going to embrace shelter in place in the most productive way. I hope you enjoy today. Show okay by now. Most of us have accomplished many of our low hanging fruit projects right. We've organized our camera gear caught up on her paperwork and maybe even have cleaned a closet or two already. But now we're going okay. What am I going to do next? What should I do next? Well I have an idea. There's an eight hundred pound gorilla that's lurking beneath many of our beds in that box of slides and snapshots that we've been meaning to tackle. I'm GONNA say been meaning to tackle. I mean for years right for years. Why haven't we done so well to be honest that project you can feel a bit overwhelming? There are so many aspects to it. It's hard to know where to begin. Well now you have. A starting point my digitizing family memories online course that begins on Monday April twentieth and the best news is if you're an inner circle member the classes absolutely free won't cost you a penny. It reminds me of one of my favorite Steve Jobs jokes which as the operating system now is absolutely free. You just have to buy a MAC to use it okay. All right not quite that expensive five dollars. A month is a lot different than a brand new back but anyway you see the humor in what I'm talking about right. So what are we going to do in? Why am I talking about it well? I'm talking about it because for many folks. This is going to be free and I think this is going to be a terrific project and if you're not inner circle member we'll talk more about how you can participate as well a little bit later in this segment right now. I just want to focus on the project itself and I I WanNa talk a little bit about. Why for many of us. This hasn't happened to this point and it really is overwhelming right. Because if you start thinking about you know the whole process of it and then you think about all the articles that you've read and all the stuff that you've thought about in what happens. Is that when you have a really big project like this and you know if you have just one shoe box for? The snapshots is a big project if you have multiple shoe boxes full of stuff. It's even bigger project in one thing that I learned a long time ago and it was such a great lesson. Is that if you have something really big right a really big project. The best way to tackle it is to break it down into parts and then start tackling the parts so then you do one part and then you do the next part and the next part Nixon. You know you're halfway through the project that you never thought you'd be able to get started with in. That's the way we're going to do this. We're going to break it down into parts on the broadest level. We're going to break it into four parts so each Monday. Starting the twentieth. Which would be next Monday? If you're listening to this podcast when it comes out. I'm going to publish a video on the meal. And they'll be password protected so those in the course can get to the video now in the video. I'm going to set up the first part of the project. And so you can watch whenever you want is not streamed. It'll be there waiting for you on Monday. Morning and So you can watch it on Monday morning. You can watch a Monday afternoon you can watch it on Tuesday. If you wish but the thing I would say. Don't get too far into the week before you watch it because there are assignments that go with the video and those are breaking the bigger part. You know the one fourth part writing because we got four videos. That's breaking that down into even smaller parts right. Those assignments are the things that you can work on. During the course of the week that starts to move you forward with this project and you will have options on how to approach this. So I'm going to not just show you one way but I'll show you a few different ways to accomplish these goals. You pick the ways. That are most comfortable for you or that work best with the tools that you have at hand because I'm assuming that for a lot of folks are not going to be able to go out and get tools for this project right. We're most of us are going to have to use what we already have. I am going to show some cool inexpensive scanners that you can order if you wish and you and I'm talking about like around one hundred bucks that you can order and you know Amazon will bring those to you so you know that kind of stuff but generally speaking. I'm trying to work with the stuff that we already have. Which means that. I'll have techniques for digitizing that are as simple as using a smartphone or as sophisticated as using a film scanner. So it's GonNa be you know there'll be something in there for you and then you start working on you start working on the assignments you also get Notes via email. During the course of the week you'll make headway right. You'll make headway and hopefully you'll get to the next point right the next point which would be sometime over that weekend and then on Monday they'll be the second video and on that second video we will take what we've done and we'll move that ball a little bit more forward and will keep going and they'll be little assignments with that now at the end of the course than what you will have is well first of all you will have conquered that eight hundred pound gorilla right. You'll have I'm not gonNA say slater because that's mean right. We don't we don't want to hurt it right. We don't want to hurt the gorilla. We just want to tame it. We want to be the master of the gorilla. And that is what's going to happen by the end. Of course and then you can apply this to any number of other projects because these techniques that were gonNA work on. They'll work for kind of other related stuff as well or you may decide to see you have four shoe boxes under the bed in for the the purpose of the course right. Because you're just you're GONNA learn along the way you're gonNA they'll be a little trial and error as you try different stuff for the purpose of the course he say. I'll just tackle one shoebox. This is what I'm going to use for my course and then you go all the way through and then at the end of you go. Kay what did I like about this process and you know what should I adjust so then you can kind of figure that out. Make your adjustments and then tackle the next shoebox right and go from there so I just feel like this thing has legs and I feel like the timing is absolutely perfect absolutely perfect and to let you know. I have worked on this project. You know many times in the past. I've a lot of techniques that I'll be talking. `Bout I've learned through trial and error and I do my reading and research and all that too but I have a whole new stack stuff. I found another shoebox going through with you as well which is kind of fun so we'll all be doing this together now. One of the Nice things about this is that with the instructional video that I'll put up each week There's a comments section there and so if you if you have a better idea of something that I talked about you know I want you to post that in the comments because what we can do just like a regular workshop where were physically there together. We can start sharing information. We could start sharing information in that. Well I like to do this. You know you talked about that and I have done it that way as good but but I tried if I add this then it works a little bit better that kind of stuff and we'll also give you the opportunity to ask questions of me and the group so if there's something if he hit a little wall or something during the week during the assignment then you know hopefully either I or one of the other participants Can help you out. And we're going to have a lot of participants on this. There's there's no limit to the number because of the way that I've designed it the way it's set up so we can have a lot of folks are we already have a lot of folks signed up because it's free to our Patriot members. Already let them know about and a whole bunch of them are already joining us. Which I think is fantastic. And by the way you want those inner circle members and in this course right. There's a lot of smart people there and They're gonNa be you know very helpful as well. They'll be a chance for some interaction via the comments. If I see that we need you know something. That's even more interactive. I'll take a look at me. I'm going to kind of keep adjusting it as we go To make sure that it meets all of our needs all righty so that part will be really fun now. Let's talk about how you can participate in this. So if you're already a patron number that's a no-brainer. Because you've already seen the post and if you're interested chances are very said. Count me in and you're already in. That part's easy. If you're not a patriots number you have two options. One option is to go over to the patron site. There's a tile and all the pages digital story and sign up become an inner circle. Member is five dollars a month if you do that then. You're instantly eligible for this class right. That's all you have to just sign up and then you go to the post you'll have access to the post about this class earn. Just say count me in. You'll be counted then boom. You're done so dancing. Easy Way to go another way to go is if you don't like that route. Then you can go over to our workshops page on the Nimble photographer so the Nimble photographer dot com click on workshops. And you'll see it there and I also have a link directly to it in the show notes and can just sign up there just like a one shot deal and it's forty five dollars which is still quite reasonable For all the stuff that we're GONNA be doing for a month worth of entertainment forty-five dollars maybe entertainment and a few challenges to write. These things. Never go exactly the way that we want once we get in the middle of them regardless of how you join. Us can start preparing now. So I'm GonNa talk a little bit about that just a couple things that you can do and then I want you to stop at that point. Okay I don't want you to keep going because you may have to do some stuff when you see the instruction so the first step yes and I think this is really important for this time that we're in right now. While we're all sheltered in place is to find a dedicated work area that you can leave. The project spread out on the table for the duration of the course because I think one of the barriers to getting this done in the past. Is that okay? You know you pull out the shoebox get everything else spread out you work on it for a little bit and then all we got have dinner and you know you're doing this at the dining room table so you gotta put everything away and then you put it away and you put it back on and then you never get back to it or you. Don't remember where he left off or you know. You know exactly what I'm talking about here don't you you do? I know you so you need a dedicated work area. Now I'm GonNa do is I'm going to set up a table. I'll have You know these these nice little tables. Are there like a double card table? You know the portable so I can store them when I'm not using them and open it up when I need something. So I'm going to set up a portable table here at the studio for this project so I can just leave things spread out so the idea is that you work on the project a little bit each day and then when you need to move on to something else you just leave it exactly where it is. Just leave it where it is so that you don't have to put anything away or anything and then when you come back to work out again you can pick up right where you left off because it's all right there so I think figuring out a dedicated work area where he can lead this project during the duration of it I think is super important writing next the second thing that I think you can do now is begin your search for the family snapshots the slides the negatives all that kind of stuff. Now you don't have to do anything with them yet. In fact I don't want you to do anything with them other than find them. Find the box that you want to work on for this project and then you know you can spend some time. Getting familiar with the contents of the boxes is actually a very fun. Part of this project is going back to the pictures looking at discovering snapshots that you didn't even know that you had or that you've forgotten that you've taken or that aunt you know and Jane took Uncle Bob or whomever so you can spend some time in fact as good getting a little familiar with the contents of the box because you know one of the assignments as you're probably going to have to do a little research to find out a bit more about some of those pictures so if you kind of know what you're working with their enjoy it can get your head around it and then stop. Don't start doing anything yet. until it's time until we start the course on Monday. Alrighty that right there should keep you out of you know your partner's hair for a little bit for at least a few hours or a day or two getting all that set up so the first two things right now is set up your dedicated work area that you can use this project and say hey. I WANNA leave this here. It's only only for a month but it's really important that I be able to to use this space. And then second fine the content that you want to start with on the project get a little familiar with it and enjoy a bit and. I really hope that you can join us for this online course because it's GonNa be fun. It's going to be productive and I think that when we get to start easing out of shelter in place if you have this under your belt as you come out of shelter in place. I think you're gonNA feel really good about how you spent some of the time while you were trapped in your home in your apartment or wherever wherever you've had to draw shelter so I'm really looking forward to spending time with you on this project and I can't wait to get started. Do you have a film camera that needs a good home if you do? Guess what I can help you with that. Over the last year I've received some great donations from our community film cameras that they're just not using anymore film cameras that are doing nothing more than taking up space in the closet and if you have done some closet cleaning during the shelter in place time in you have run across a camera or two then go to the photographer dot com. Send me you know. Use the contact form and they have A. There's a boxer you can check specifically for donating cameras and drop me a note and say hey. I found this. I didn't even know I had it anymore and would you be interested and refurbishing it get it all cleaned up and ready to go in putting in the film. Camera Shop. If you do that I would be most appreciative Such a win win all the way around. It's gets another camera in the hands of someone who really wants to embrace film photography. A lot of times they are college students It also helps support this podcast and it is something that I enjoy doing. I love working on these cameras and getting them back in shape so anyway if you do cleaning closet and you do find a camera in you do WanNa find a home for it. Go to the Nimble photographer dot com semi note and. Let's talk eight terabyte too big to Bay USB three point one raid hard-drive first of all. I'm just gonNa tell you right off the top here. I just learned about this recently when I was researching a title. That was working on for Linda in Lincoln on backing up in organizing and I contacted a number of hard-drive vendors and talk to them. What should I be talking about? What should I be talking about and when I talk to Lucy? They said we'll definitely you should be talking about this unit so I said Okay. Let me take a look at so. They sent me one and I started working with it for the title and I really fell in love with this. Because what do I like about three things first of all? It looks really good sitting on your desk in my case next to an I MAC is very handsomely designed second. It's not too big. It has to drive in it spinning at seventy two hundred RPM there say two three drives their robust they are enterprise level. These are great drives. That are inside this handsome enclosure. They're actually seagate iron wolf pro. Any S Four. Terabyte hard drive. Alright third software comes with this. That is fantastic. That allows you to set this hard. Drive up this array too hard drive away anyway that you want. I mean you know not any way that you want. I mean within reason what I mean is either raid zero rate one or just a bunch of Discs IS THE J. B. O. Option really means just a bunch of disk. Okay so you have really three options to set this up what I did was I'm using rate one. And what raid. One means that you have four terabyte drives in there. You have a total of four terabytes because everytime you right to this external hard drive It mirrors on the other unit so everything is backed up on the to dry. So if you have a hard drive failure. The other hard-drive is Amir of it. Which means you're in great shape already so I love that and so easy to do. Now you could go raiders zero with this and that's the fastest performance. Actually because then what? The software does is that if drives doing something that goes the other drives that uses both drives at the same time. And you get a little better performance and you also get you know double the storage you get eight terabytes instead of four terabytes because you're using both drives but you don't have the backup then if you're using J. B. O. D. just a bunch of disks then essentially you'll have to four terabyte disk. You know show up on your desktop and you can write to one and you know right to the other. Do whatever you want. The software makes all of this really easing in. When I said in the review is that here I felt like I was like this. Cool SYS admin right really configuring the saying in in making it work by the way it works with both Mac and windows. It works for both right out of the box. But you can fine tune it for your particular system which I highly recommend because you get better performance out and then I've been using it Ever since took a bunch of older hard drives and I- consolidated the contents from those hard drives onto this one so that I have a newer hard-drive now with better performance newer disc. All that kind of stuff to store that valuable content for me and then of course. It's instantly backed up onto the other drive and the performance has been great. I've even been able to run. Capture one catalogs off the hard drive which normally. I would only do off an SSD right. It's all state deaths not an HDD now to spinning platter disk but in this case it works fine. And if you're doing the other setup if you do the rate zero it would work very well. It will work very well. It works fine this way. And it's not something I do all the time most of the time. I'm going to run off the SSD. But you know what? I'm working on a specific project catalog. That's only for a project and I don't really want it on my computer. I wanted on the external I want. It backed up and then when I'm done with project I don't want us to deal with it. I WANNA sure that it's safe. And so sometimes I just work with them there you know. Send up their work with them there and it hasn't been a bad at all or writing. This is just a really nice setup. It looks good it performs well. The software is great. You get really robust hard drives in there and it's just a quality product now. The two big eight terabyte is four hundred and fifty one dollars that includes the enclosure Both drives inside. You know the connecting cables in the software. There's a four terabyte version for three hundred and forty nine dollars. And then there's a sixteen terabyte option for six hundred forty nine dollars. I love to have that one in that. Maybe the next one that I get you know because then I could have two eight. Terabyte dries mirrored. That sounds pretty sweet but right now I'm really enjoying the four terabyte version that I have. It works great so this is something that. I'm a huge fan of if you're interested in it at all or you want to learn more about it. I have links in the show notes. saying go take a look. I have the review written on digital story. You can buy it at B. N. H. And get a good price on it. If you're for some robust storage looks great. Doesn't take up too much space. Performs really well this one right now is my favorite? I have an update on the Humboldt workshop. Redwoods that was scheduled for May thirteenth. I believe and after continuing to research and talking to folks and you know all the stuff that comes along with these uncertain times. I'm going to postpone that workshop. We're not GONNA have it in May I'm looking at some alternative dates now and I'm in conversations with those on the reserve list once we decide what we're going to do and we can kind of do this collectively then if there are any seats open with the new date Published those. I'll let you guys know and we'll see what happens. I WanNa do this workshop. I love this workshop so much but we need to figure out a time to do it. That's going to be safe and that everyone's going to be comfortable traveling to it. So we're working on that now and I'll keep you posted but it is not going to happen in May is just too early at. We're not ready to do it. As far as the summer and fall workshops I the fall workshop is very safe. The Summer Workshop GonNa Start Talking. With my folks on that. I'll probably start that in the next week or so and we'll get a feel for that. I'm hoping I'm hoping that we can pull off the workshop in July. But we have to see what happens over the next couple of weeks so stay tuned for that more to come with our summer workshop Fall Workshop. We're looking good. And then you know we're going to move Humboldt To somewhere else because I want to do it and I want to go to the redwoods. Righty we'll get there. We'll get there. We gotta work through what we have to work right now. Big thanks to our inner circle members are Patriot members who support this podcast month in and month out. And if you WANNA learn more about becoming an inner circle member in hop in on this online courses that we're going to be doing for digitizing family memories all you have to do is click on the Patriots tile. It's on all the pages of the digital story over there. See what we're doing. See what it's about. Join this fine group of people who are supporting this show supporting this community and keeping things moving forward of big. Thanks to all of our patriotic numbers. WanNa to mention that I have been ancient Amazon tiles on all the pages of the digital story. If you click on one of those tiles first before you order from those respective retailers that helps out the show. Those are affiliate links and we get credit for the purchases that you make. It doesn't cost you any more but it may help us out a bit financially so if you remember to do that extra step before you buy from being Amazon we very much appreciate it and finally a huge thanks to our friends at Red River paper. These are the folks that are supporting us month in and month out for as long as I can remember going back you know and I was looking at some of the earlier podcasts last week when I was trying to decide which one I wanted to do for throwback show Red River paver was far of those shows. I just going. This is incredible. This company has stood by us for all these years and they are also very worthy of our patronage as well because they make fine exquisite inkjet printing paper and all sorts of different surfaces. They have lots of information on their website. They have good customer service and they have fair prices. And if you're thinking about doing a little bit of printing let's say you join us for that digitizing family memories get some very nice digital files of some of that very precious imagery from the past and you decide that you want to make Prince of it you WanNa make bigger prince of maybe some of those images you WanNa make fine art cards to share with family members. Then that's when Red River paper comes in so keep that in the back of your mind While you're working on this project in remember they have tile on all the pages of the digital story go there learn more about everything that's going on at their site and they have a wonderful facebook page at FACEBOOK DOT COM SLASH. Red River paper. Right that's GonNa do it for me this week. I am so excited about this online course. I cannot wait to get started next Monday. I hope he'd be joining me and either way. Come back next Tuesday and working on some story that enjoy as well until then have a great these safe by.

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Silent CollaborationGulnara Samoilova and Women Street Photographers

B&H Photography Podcast

29:23 min | Last month

Silent CollaborationGulnara Samoilova and Women Street Photographers

"You're listening to the h. Photography podcast for over forty years being h has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favourite gear news and reviews visit at h. dot com or download. The beach apt to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan white's welcome to the beach. Photography podcast goulnara. Samoylova is a fine art and street photographer based in new york city and the founder of the popular at women street photographers instagram feet. She's also the editor of a new book of the same name from press dell press. It's a beautiful book which will be discussing further in the second half of the show. The book which is chock full of wonderful street photography from around the world has afford written by any tally a former guest of this show. Welcome go nahra. hi how you doing. We're doing great. It's so good to have you here. Today we plan on speaking about street photography and balcony arizona work for which we have many reasons to celebrate. Her photographs have garnered numerous accolades including a price from the world. Press photo competition are photographs are in the collections of the museum of the city of new york. The new york historical society the nine eleven memorial museum as well as the private collections of elton. John and others before moving to new york city in one thousand nine hundred ninety two go. Nara was the only female fine art photographer in the autonomous republic of bashkortostan which is not many people could clean and that's where she was born in no wafaa the capital. Welcome thank you so much for inviting me and it's a it's always a pleasure. Let's start with a general question. A street photography and intrinsically urban exercise. Or could you do it outside of cities. How would you define. Well i personally. How define i think it said unplanned photos taking in public places to mr autocracy is is fun It's something that i do to relax and It doesn't have to be in the big cities. it could be anywhere. I guess one of these i'm asking. Is that from from looking at your work on your website and in everything you are very good in urban environments and you're shooting in streets around we're being ages located. I recognize the street. I can't even tell you what month the pictures were taken based shadows. I mean i was really connecting with that but you also take really really powerful risk equally powerful photographs out in the countryside. Back where you're from from your home country. In remote locations that are the the polar opposite of of fifth avenue and thirty eighth street yet. They have the same feel about it. And that's what. I'm kind of curious do you do. You have a feeling a different way of working with feeling or intuition when you're shooting in midtown or in the middle of nowhere. I don't really like the areas. Were going shoot. I always follow my my emotional state. And i'm just looking for a photograph data. That is make me happy. You know and He new york i. To tell the truth. I couldn't even photographing new york for the longest time because it felt like home And so it's been the maybe seven or so years. Only when i just opened my eyes and could see In new york i was really really enjoyed. I'm still enjoy traveling. And that's what excites me. You know different cultures in in bush. The stan i wasn't left. Nineteen ninety two but then i didn't go back for many many years until a few years ago and i went back there and really it was. It was very interesting experience. Because i could see everything like with the like a foreigner. I for say. I'm from there. But i i could see differently and i was like reintroduced to my own culture. I was born. Atar and i could see Beautiful costumes and beautiful nature. Which i couldn't see when i was living there. You're working new york and you work in cuba for example you know. There are differences in the cuban stuff. There's more it's more intimate. You see more strict richer. So you don't feel that i mean is it just kind of you opening yourself to the environment and letting the environment speak to you on that sense because even the style is different. You know what i mean. Compared to the new york stuff was that a conscious decision. I guess going in cuba is is is very interesting. Cuba was the first Country i visited. When i decided that i wanna focus onstage autography solely And i've never been to kill by just very refreshing to see people. Just you know without phones and To go by their lives in the color and openness of the people and i did a lot of experimenting there so was approaching people in overcoming my own fears. You know that's where i learned How to approach people because there was just super friendly and I don't speak spanish. But i would approach a group of people or couple and we just stay there too in photograph like without in talking to them. I would make a communication with my eyes or hand gestures. And that's how i learned how i can communicate with people without spoken language. It's an amazing thing to communicate with people when you don't have a common tongue and it's amazing how much you really can communicate with people It's again just facial expressions in just certain words and things of that sort Do prefer working that way. As opposed to speaking the native tongue in next you'd be able to communicate with people as a giveaway extra bit of magic to work you think. Yeah that's what i prefer. I don't. I don't really like to talk to people when taking pictures. I mean i like talking to people. But when i'm taking photographs in my opinion like someone and i and i say something it begs a a response and the bags like the rejection. I am very friendly. When i'm on the street so a yam smile. I i dress accordingly cara very small camera. I don't want to look professional and people respond to me in front of the way. And when i say i am and then it gives me time to work on my photograph. I don't want to just take a quick photo of somebody. I wanna make a photograph. I want to work on my composition. If if the person or people leading me with their you know the smile back or if they not work at pictures from different angles than i always make eye contact with with that personal collaborations you subject. It's a silent collaboration until they say okay. It's enough for stop or dan will this. Thank them for their time in website. Gloria you said that you photograph your subjects You make no secret of your intentions. I mean how. How do you do that. Is this what you're describing now with the smiles and the you ever talk about or if people ask you. What are the photos four do do do you have an answer or do does it depend on the project etc. Yeah i mean. Of course. I talked to banda if they ask me and usually usually that happens if i say something like if i say okay thanks so much time daley. Okay what does it for. So yes. Of course i. I'm kind of curious. I it depends it. Depends i say you know. I i gotta be very genuine in your answer So whatever is attracted to you in that to that person so could be There is or outfits or It could be anything just to reply back. What what attracted you to compel you to take a picture of them now. I appreciate that. I think that's a good way to do it. As opposed to saying well it's for this or such and such. Can i ask a little bit about how you you know how you hold your camera. Maybe what camera you use. Do you have a prime lens. He said you'd like to keep things small Dea is it always hanging. You have it hanging around your neck. So people see you coming up the year. Photographer is at hanukkah. Oh yes so. That's that's a another thing that i Yes i have a very small Fuji exceed to annex. D three. And i used to photograph before the pandemic ice photograph solely with a twenty equivalent to twenty eight millimeter lance. I ended depends on where. I am actually If i'm in new york i just have my camera hanging around my neck. A fireman another country have wrapped around my hand but when approaching someone. My camera is always next to my face. So people know that there's a person approaching them with the camera. She might take a picture so i make them aware of me as a photographer and and letting them mentally prepared that i might take a picture. You let that united sneaking up on them. I think it's pretty exactly most people try to like look like you know. They sorta like crawl around the bit looking over their shoulder. Giving sideway glances and you could see the cameras in the hand everything. So that's a nice honest move. I think that has to definitely give whoever the the your subject is little more confidence entrusted. You for sure but yeah. That's what makes people angry like when you sneak on them and take a picture and you pretend you didn't take a picture and that's one day like running. After you know yelling. Nobody would ever do that. But can i ask though. I mean there. There is that moment when they recognize the camera. That the what you were originally attracted to sometimes disappears right. I mean it's that interaction with the camera. You might not have wanted out. But the thing is that the thing is that i yes i approach and whatever attracted me might not be there but i stayed there long enough where they let would they relax and just go in life. Whatever they were doing that continued doing it. So that moment. If your patient enough it will appear in front of you again. And that's why. That's when when i say that you know what What when you mentioned. Before that. I make no secret of my intention so i am honest with my subject and i stayed there long enough to make my photograph interesting. I have a question about the hand coloring of your foot. Which i really like. I think it really works. Who when i first saw of hand colouring. I had the more traditional hand coloring in mind you. I'm not a coloring my black and white pictures to make them like in a spot colors. I mean i personally am against that different. Would you something sure this is something. You know the the reason i i. I started doing this in back in the eighties. You know when i was in russia and i was. I was just a traditional photographer. And then when i saw in moscow i still a huge exhibition by gilbert and george where they paint the pictures and it was just for me. It was a moment where i was like. Oh my god. I can do anything with my my photographs. I can express my way through adding my my written messages on photographs. Pink them and gave me a like a permission to do anything with my photographs. And that's when i start expressing my frustration with like you know. Aides said the time timer pollution So but i restarted hand painting my phone my photographs when i attended maryland marks workshop and i showed her those work and she After workshop she said she sent me a letter where she said that I and i quote you all to yourself to produce your own personal body work. So yeah that's what i started doing know went through my family albums which haven't touched and this series yet. I formed that series. Start painting My photographs that i took a various years And and then adding collages from my family photos. So i was creating my own like fantasy family albums when looking at your hand college photographs with a little floral patterns on reminding very strongly. There's a guy who. I see on ebay. Once in a while. And he gets these rushing cameras any hand paints them in porcelain enamel with a lot of these same little motifs of flowers. It's very very reminiscent. This guy gets. It's sort of a cultural thing. But he does cameras that way old cameras and any charges you come home but the beautiful little pieces of artwork and supposedly also working cameras. I haven't had the courage to buy one yet. But they're beautiful to look at On that note but the reason. I paint flowers because my name. It means bloom of pomegranate. And my mother's name was rose. That's why i paint a lot of flowers In in in my collage. It's oh okay. The photos of your mother in those series their powerful. Thank you okay. we're gonna take a short break. We come back more with go. Nara and speaking about her book women street the tigers. Fers stay tuned. We hope you're enjoying this edition of the h photography. Podcast the best way to support the show is by subscribing on apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for links to gear and more information on today's guests check out the show notes in your podcast app or visit our home page on the h. Explorer website and joined the bien h. Photography podcast facebook group and now back to the show. Okay we are back. Today's episode is the last of march. Which is the international women's months so it's somewhat fitting that we are celebrating this wonderful book. Women street photographers and the book is such an international assemblage of women. Photography's a fantastic book. Can you tell us about how this came to be. And you know the relationship between the book and your instagram feed which is really weird. all started. if. I'm not mistaken right after lounging winston photographers instagram. Feed in late. Two thousand seventeen as a platform to support women artists. It's just inspired me than create a website than the annual exhibition which started in two thousand eighteen. And since then curated. I think thirteen exhibition around the around the world. So originally i wanted to create exhibition catalogs or self published book and i was developing this idea when ana godfray editor at presto approached me and asked me if i was interested in creating a book. can i do they come to you with the the idea that it would be kind of as it is with. You know one photographer one image and then to the next and with you know somewhat kind of mimicking the an idea of instagram feed. I think to some degree. More mimicking exhibitions so so when i do Exhibition in new york every year. I also collect background stories From each photographer about their photographs. You know what they felt would compel them to take a photo. And i found those stories are just really really interesting and i myself photographer. I love reading background stories. And that's what. I want one this book to be simple yet powerful. And that's why. I wanted to give a entire spread to one photographer. So they photograph speak Hannah by itself and the caption. All the photos were originally on the feed started. I selected about originally selected about two. It's fifty photographers. Who already showcase or a bunch of exhibitions and instagram So what i did. I made four by six Proof prints and i put them on the white wall and then a pair them. So i was thinking about sequencing. The book like i do Sequence exhibitions to me It was not not only about a powerful photograph but also a book as a whole body work that tells the story collective story so i paired those Proof france and then. I i just want them around in the world to since and then so after that i edit down to one hundred artists which anna gottfried she. You know she suggested. Look let us keep it to one hundred which i agreed and so we selected one hundred artists from thirty one countries and they're all working the wide range of styles. You know both traditional and experimental. What was your thought process in terms of the types of things. That can't be street photography. When i was doing my research for his instagram and exhibitions. I was struck by different types of john rods within for taga fee which was such a revelation to me because i was trained in more like a classical way But i i was just really inspired by by women who pushed So to say you know talking to button creating abstract than or like blurry images. I really appreciate this this kind of photography lake. How you kind of push the envelope in street photography in there. I mean there are things that are you know arguably i mean not that we need to define it so much Particularly thinking about This this photo by deborah check. I think is her name taken from the ocean of swimmers and people on the rocks and There was another one that people at a swimming pool and i liked. That comment of law read is her name. The photographer said if it's in public than at street photography so Assume you agree. You know i. I like to people to see that states can happen anywhere. It doesn't have to be on a concrete street in the big city and Yeah my my interest is is to not to defy photography but to expand it. Maybe we should stop point street photography. Just call it life photography you can do. You can call it anything you want. I really think of it really. That's what it is. It's it's it's best really what it is it's people going about their lives and you capturing moments i've been sometimes it's your photograph. The way you captured is making a statement. That might be totally ridiculous. Okay where it could really be something that actually happened. You captured a true moment and it's obvious what was going on but it's just moments of life exactly. Yeah yeah that's a good point. I mean and then there's this whole thing of it was. It is a documentary you know. And where do you draw the lines and It's in a really kind of endless debate. I suppose. But i like that but let's not stick to it because you'll just narrow down the kind of shows we could have if there's only one topic photography where skunked let's keep as many different types of targeted going as possible. I like how you included You know women who are professional photographers and more established and then those who seem to be non professionals or people who maybe it's just kind of a side side hobby An and the workday created just as interesting. Needless to say. And i think it it goes with what you're both saying about. This is life with the women that represented in a book. Day they range from like the twenties to seventies and You know some take photography Late in life after the head careers and families and others Like me be started as teens have dedicated their lives to the to photography. So it's Also wanted to Show working women. From different cultures there's thirty four nationalities represented in the book. It's a real great looking to see. It's a very pretty booked to see. I love the cover photo. It's it's attractive. It has humor. I wanna give you know. Shah's medani who designed his book and it just she's brilliant and we wanted to Does book to be accessible to you. Know not just art lovers but to to anyone you know. Say it's a simple yet full powerful. How 'bout Women who might be out here listening to this that want to get you know their books in the volume two or their photos in volume. Two of the book or onto the feed is how they go about it. Do they just contact you instagram. Or or how do you address way to put yourself not just to be in a part of the book by just to be. Part of the larger community is to Send your photos for two additional calls. And that's how i collected majority of Taga i this book so exhibition Exhibitions that the the the best way they can use the hashtag women's to petar refers. And when you say exhibitions you mean the ones that you organize as well as any s about four five editions a year. I mean right. Now there's exhibition coal for our first virtual And then The hashtag hashtag. Wsb book where the winner will get assigned book from me and also be part of the exhibition. Can i just ask like what's you know you. Ha you wear a lot of hats. You editor curator. A publisher obviously doing savannah photographer. So i mean how easily can you go back and forth and does do they easily kind of feed one another. Do you feel. It's all part of one big world or does does one kind of keep you from doing the other or make you see things differently. I you know my friends know me. I'm i can multitask so You know if. I have a project lie. And that's what i focus on one thing But with ministers photographers yes. It's kind of Connecting the the. The women's tigers exhibitions and artists residency. Which i'm most excited They inspirational film stat Guay taga for who we're working together and Yeah they'll they'll they they they'll all projects are have the same goal To elevate voice win photographers to give them exposure that. I personally would like to have for myself in a when i For the past forty years have been doing this. We've been talking for over now. And we of course lies. Always we could just keep going on if people want to. Catch up on your work websites. Instagram where can people go to see more of your work. My work that i can see on my personal instagram account which is at go nara on the score. Nyc or websites granada dot com and They can see work. By oldest amazing women straightalk refer to at women's tigers and a website where mr retire affect com. Okay that's by the all of this will be in our show. Notes ended well worth looking at. It's really a marriage. Work is wonderful and the photographs are in the book in on. The website aren't sitting on the instagram account. for women street Absolutely wonderful some phenomenal exciting worth really really is It's worth taking time to visit these sites and again. Thank you so much for joining us today narrow. Thank you and thank you i. I love being h. I've been shopping there since. Nineteen ninety two when it was a tiny tiny tiny small fourteenth street. So you found it. The the first year arrived in new york. Oh yes yes. Yeah i go to you know. Every time i needed film yeah you just hang out in the store. You had to shots from the street. I need an roles of triax hundred. Remember the days the film lines. I mean i just thing in the past but the lineup to buy your brick a film or whatever yeah okay. That was a great show. Terrific having you with us today. We'll have you back again some time. If you enjoy listening to the retirement podcast the best way to return. The love is by subscribing to our show. All you have to do is go to spotify revenue. Sneh your favorite podcast and type in b. n. h. photography podcast hit enter and boom. You are one of the family and if you already a subscriber leave a nice comment. The suits upstairs love reading the stuff you can also find is on the being explore website and on the photography podcast facebook page all that said for now and forever. My name is alan whites and on behalf of john harris and jason tables. Thank you so so much for tuning into day.

new york Cuba Samoylova nahra new york historical society nine eleven memorial museum bashkortostan new york city Alan white Nara elton ana godfray banda dell daley arizona anna gottfried Dea Gloria
5 Easy Ways to Edit Movies Recorded with Your Camera - TDS Photo Podcast

The Digital Story

33:42 min | 9 months ago

5 Easy Ways to Edit Movies Recorded with Your Camera - TDS Photo Podcast

"This is digital story podcast number seven, fifty, four, September first, two, thousand, and twenty. Today's theme is five easy ways to edit Luby's recorded with your camp. I'm Derek store. Practically every camera on the market today captured video in addition to still pictures. But capture is not the roadblock for most otographer turned movie makers its the editing, this Lewisham down. I can help with that today I'll show you five different APPS that make it easy to trim up your clips and share them with the world and the best part is you probably already own them. I hope you enjoy the show. So for a while, I was wondering about the actual need of having all this video capability. With are still cameras of course you know that's a little biased me saying that right there because they're just cameras but around the world, a lot of folks are really looking at these things to shoot video. And then Oh yeah they take pictures as well and that is a real thing. Studies are showing that the manufacturers are saying that's what the demand is. So. This is being driven by the consumer as well as those that design the cameras and then I started thinking about my own work and how often I do fire up the video mode on my Olympus or on my Fuji Film Camera and I it's a real thing. Isn't it? And then I think getting. From listeners and they're going you know especially now when we're sheltered in a lot more can't go outside as much and. Are exploring new features on our cameras. One of the features that they are exploring is making videos and than sharing them with people, you know most photographers and most artists have a variety of different interests and some of those interests are very nicely explained of by making a video about how to do this or how to do that. Is Essentially what I do for a living, right? So. So. Why not everyone? Else's? Well, why not? I was looking at you know this sort of conundrum that comes up with you know okay. Capturing images as one thing. And you know taking video is another and then getting decent sound is another and then once you get that video and has some decent sound. What do you do with it? I mean, do have to go out and spend two, hundred, ninety, nine dollars to buy final cut or. By adobe of video editing software or can you use something that you already have the do the basic things in the basic things are really what most people need at the very top of the list is trimming because a lot of times when we're shooting video ourselves, which we do most of the time, right? You know the production crus- somewhere else in there we are. We've gotta take care of everything ourself. And trimming is the big deal right because you know you start the video. and. Then you know maybe the camera tripod or whatever, and you know you gotta walk over and then you get in front of the Cameron Start Talking doing your thing and then when he finished saying what you're, GonNa say then you gotta walk back to the camera turn off. Well, you know those bits on both ends and even if you're doing handheld stuff, right press the button all that while there's usually some rigmarole that goes on then those bits on both ends are the things that need to go away in fact. If we just get rid of those bits on both ends. We already have the meat of a pretty good video right there. So trimming is something that everyone needs to do everyone needs to trim, and if you're not trimming, then do not share your videos with other people right? Unless they're just you know something fun like an iphone video or something like that. another very common request is being able to add videos together like video bits together to make one movie. people also like to be able to add a title. Or some sort of graphic to their movie you know. So all these things are really nice to be able to do to to take it from just a clip to something that's a little bit more of a presentation, and then when you've done that, you know, how can you share it? I mean, can you export it into a file format that works Nicer Youtube or works Nicer facebook or whatever you happen to us to share your video. So these basic tasks do not require you know final cut ten or another expensive video editing up there are APPs upset you probably have on your computer right now that can handle most or all of these things, and that's what I'm going to talk about right now I have five of them for you. And I'm going to start out with a quick time and quick time for the Mac. Now, quicktime used to be for both windows and Mac, and then around two thousand, sixteen or so. Apple stopped officially supporting quicktime for windows even though that latest version that latest windows version seven, point six or seven point seven actually still works on windows ten so but is not officially supported. So I'm just going to talk about it for the Mac right now, I do have windows APPs to that we'll be talking about we'll talk about quicktime for the Mac but the player, not even quicktime pro but the modern player that every Mac user has actually does a pretty good job of trimming movies of stitching clips together, and then you can even move them around when they're on the time line and I don't think. I. Realize that you can do this. You open the video clip that you shot with your camera. You know you go to edit there's trim right there, and then there's also a command to add clip at the end and you go. Why can I add clip at the beginning? We don't have to worry about that. Just add the the clip at the end the second movie. Because once added, then you can click on it and move it around. You can move it around so you can move it to the beginning. You know there's trying to keep the menu simple there but you can do all of this work in just the quicktime player and then quicktime player also has excellent. Export options, you can either use the expert command or you can use the share command and the share command will allow you to go directly to your youtube account or to facebook. There's a lot you can do here. In fact, almost everything that most people need to do can be done with the quicktime player, and so it just takes a few minutes to to look at that at menu and to figure out you know, okay. Here's how you trim and basically just I mean they couldn't make it easier to tell you the truth. You Click on tram video and you get these giant yellow handles on both ends. And all you gotTa do is move. You know one giant yellow handled to you know where you want your video to start in the other giant handle. To where you want your video to and and then you click a button us as trim and you're very nice thing. Now, the one thing I will say about if you're going to be doing stuff in quicktime when you export or whatever, it will actually save your original version. Just to be on the site, because things can go wrong I haven't had it happened but I know they can make a a duplicate of your video before you start editing and just stash it away until you're done with the project, and until you've reopened it to see that you know if you can go back and restored and all that stuff just have duplicate of your video or of your video clips before you start playing around with them quicktime player I don't think you'll have any missteps but I would be very sad if you did it'd be very said. So go ahead and duplicate them and then off to the races you go. You haven't on your Mac right now you can do a lot of stuff. All right next one. Photos for windows and photos for the MAC. Both of the photos APPs on both platforms when I say photos for windows, I mean windows ten Winston has a nifty video editor inside a photos or windows. It allows you to split and trim clips and do all sorts of stuff. It's actually a very powerful. So what I did with the show notes as I put a link in the show outs to Toronto for windows, users on how to trim and in do video things with their photos. APP just click on the link in the show notes in you'll see it and it's called. Here's a good article and editing video using photos for windows ten. It'll show you all the stuff that editor can do really nice and you have it on your windows machine right now. Mac Users, they also have a photos, APP it's interesting. The photos APP will allow you to do quite a bit when she know how to work it. So when you have a video into photos for Mac Os. Right away you can trim it and You can extract a frames out of that, which is really cool. You're shooting for cake is basically can pull out very hi Rez still images out of it. But then if you WANNA start putting clips together in photos for the Mac. Then what you do is you trim up your clips. And then you create a project, a slide show project you put those clips in the slide show project, and then you can move them around, and basically what you're doing is you're making a slide show with video clips in it works quite well, it works quite well and you can add a music to it. You can add graphics. Titles and things like that. They have themes that you can work with. You can do Ken Burns transitions between the video clips. You can do a lot of a lot of really cool stuff but you have to kind of think outside the box just a bit and this will happen we get the light room as well. You have to think outside the box just a bit to get the most out of it, but again, you can trim the clips right there. You know right next to the play bar right on the play bar there's a little gear you click on that and trim video will be one of the commands that you can do and then if you WanNa take multiple clips and put them together create. A slide show project, but those clips in there and go to town, and by the way you can mix in still photos as well. Right. So you can do a lot of stuff if you have stills end video criticized show, you can make some really nice presentations, the photo Zap for both windows ten and for the MAC works quite well for working on these projects again stuff you already have. Now. The third one is photos for irs on the IPAD when they did I had a s in the updated photos as part of that. He really went nuts on the video end I mean it is really good. A lot of people like to work on the IPAD anyway. Would you can do with photos for less on the IPAD is not only can you trim which is great everyone needs to do that. You can adjust tone you can adjust color, you can add filters you can crop. You can then yet you can do all sorts of stuff and you're going, gee, this is just like a a full on video editor in in a Lotta ways it is, and if photos for S is connected to your Mac, the I cloud, then you you could do this really interesting workflow or just real quickly trip up all your videos on your Mac and you know I cloud will save them, and then you open them in. A photo psoriasis on the IPAD and you can do all the stuff that you WanNa do tone and color and effects, and all that. Of course, they're automatically saved, and then if you want go back to the MAC and create a slide show and you put all these different clips together and you have a real presentation between the two of them, there's a lot you can do and if you just use the IPAD. You can clean up your clips very nicely and adjust them. I have actually used the ipad to do clip work. That you instead of firing final cut ten on my big computer, my studio just on the road just deal. The clip were while I'm screwing around in a hotel and not have to do anything when I, get home. It's been really nice. So photos are. Is really powerful, really good and if you're not familiar with the tools in Europe linked in learning member OR LYNDA DOT COM member I include that video work in my latest training on photos for a Mac os I talk about both Mac os and photos for IOS in this latest for training on linked in and learning dot com. So if you like watching videos on this and you WanNa, see how it's done. Just, go there look at that train AC- essential training for photos on Catalina right the one catalina. Okay. So that is a very nice workflow. It's funny I have final Tan and I have you know a lot of tools workout video 'cause they do a fair amount. But sometimes, I have to tell you. I just want to work on the IPAD and use photos ryo less because it's so much fun. Fourth one. Light Room Classic for Mac and Windows in the classic version of Light Room actually has very good editing tools. Now, it's funny how you work with them. So when you bring audio into the library, light room classic will recognize it right away and you know that's that's all nice. And when you're in quick develop, you can adjust tone in color all the basic sort of things that you would imagine you could do in quick develop. But if you go to the regular develop module, you can't do anything it'll say, oh, well, this is a movie and can't use the develop module for this movie. Well, that seems kind of funny because it seems like I've seen people do more. So I did a little research and I have this excellent to to`real in the show notes by Julianne cost who basically what she does is she extracts a frame from the video which is very easy to do. Right. So you just take a frame you'll that in the develop module, then you have all of the tools available in light room classic. Make all the adjustment she wants to you could do things like D. Saturate or you could isolate colors or all the stuff that you can do in a very powerful developed module in light? Room. and. Then I have to do is when you're done working on that single frame, you just sink it with the clip. You just sink the changes. You don't know you know when you think the changes, the edits you know brings up that mania need to say Yeah Chekhov do everything here and everything that you did to that still photo and light room classic will be applied to the video clip as really cool. I mean, it's so you can do some very nice stuff in light room classic now unfortunately. light room, C. C, you know the online version, the creative cloud version doesn't have any video editing at all. So this is only for classic users, but a lot of people that listen to the show have light room classic and prefer it anyway to the creative cloud version of light. So, if you have that MAC or windows, I check out this tutorial that I linked to. The show notes and see what MS cost has to say, and then you know fire up some video and there and see what you can do. It's it's pretty darn good. It's pretty darn good. All right, and then the fifth one the last one in this group of stuff that you probably already have on your computer is I'm movie for Mac os I less. Now, a lot of folks haven't looked at movie in a long time. So it's been around for years right and the early versions of I- movie were actually pretty good but they weren't always as intuitive as people wanted him to be especially for an I ap. I you know I. Look at it and it's a little confusing. Well I'm movie has improved a lot over the years. So if you haven't looked at it for a few years, I think it's time to look at it again because it is quite good in as a powerful, but it has some just neat things that it does that. Other. APPs don't do and in fact to demonstrate one of these things you can do movie trailers in the movie trailers are really fun there like only one to two minutes long they have a ton of templates to choose from all these different things that you can do, and then it just walks you through the process. I mean it just like basically draw a picture here, draw a video clip here type in which you want here you know just that kind of stuff. You can do it in a half an hour. You can create this trailer and then it puts it altogether for you and when a plays, it's really fun I mean it's very fun. So I put a link in the show notes for this to a trailer that I created using the latest version of I- movie. For my new title and I'll talk about the title and a bit here how to get started with vinyl records. That title is out. Now it's available on the Nimble photographer in the nimble photographer online courses area in the workshops area. So I created a trailer for that which I thought would be great fun and I used I'm movie for that. This is something that I don't think I could could've I don't think final cut has this. Affected I'm pretty sure it doesn't. So this is something that I could do and I I couldn't even do in final cut if I wanted to. So those are five apps that you probably have. You know at least three of these thirty that if you're shooting video. then. US One of these, APPs to to clean up your stuff and make it look now as your comfort level increases using whatever you use from this mix here. Then it'll be easier for you to push into more sophisticated APPS. So as final cut because. You already have a little bit of the language down. You have a little feel for January kind of know what you need to do to your particular content to get it in the shape that you want, and then you know when you export. Almost. All of these APPs have nice expert commands that allow you to you know they'll say eight do you want to export out in full hd? Do you want to export out? You know for Youtube? Do you want expert out for me or whatever, and then they'll take care of all the particulars for you. Now Alana times when you're going to a particular social networks such as facebook or youtube or via meal that'll be in the share menu, and then the export menu is more for taking the file with all the edits that you've done, and then you know just saving it to the hard drive to the desktop. Now one thing I will say is that videos the only place in recent history where I have lost content. I lost content from not backing up my libraries or not backing up whatever because. Video. APPS ALL VIDEO APPS will go wonky sooner or later on you. So one of the things that I highly recommend is that if you're working on the project that's important to you just keep backing up back up as you go just have an extra hard drive. For your content and just back it up so that if something does go wrong. Then you know you won't lose everything you might have. You might have to go back to an earlier part in the project. You might lose some or all of your work, but you won't lose your original content and that's the thing that that you really want to stay away from. So just make sure you sort of back up as you go going back to the original idea though that our cameras shoot excellent video they do but you know finishing it off a little bit more difficult. Go, ahead and capture some stuff take a wack at the you know one or more of these. APPS that I talk about get something finished and then share it with people and see what they say. You might end up shooting more video with your camera and. Joining apparently this party that's going on all around us. Sony to debut a New Line of Compact full frame cameras starting this month. And then it says Colon report I'm going to say Colon Rumor Right Cohen Rumor You can read the entire article on Pedal Pixel I. Have a link. So rumor has it everything they tell you right now rumor has it that Sony is going to introduce a new line of compact full frame cameras if they do this successfully man oh, man look out right I mean they're already a handful. Everyone's kind of moving toward releasing an entry level camera or cameras a little bit smaller. That's in the full frame bracket. Let me read you what Sony is up to according to these reports are writing. Sunny might have some interesting gear in the works according to the latest rumors accompany is planning to debut a new line of Super Compact full frame, a seven and a nine cameras aimed at blogging and travel. In the first one dubbed the Sony a-7 seven see will arrive this month according to Sony. Alpha. Rumors to reliable sources have confirmed speculation that Sony is planning to release a new entry level full frame camera this month. But they actually set a lot more than that. Apparently, the camera will be part of a new line of Super Compaq C cameras that will live alongside the regular, a seven and a nine. The first to arrive will be the Sony a-7 seen entry level model on par with the Sony, a seven three, but other C- cameras are rumored to follow creating a whole line of compact cameras aimed at loggers and troubleshooters who prioritize features like a flip screen the first camera, the so-called Sony a seven is rumored to a sometime in mid September. As a sort of hybrid between the seven three in the a six, thousand, six, hundred. According to say are the camera will combine the body of an a six thousand, six, hundred with a sensor and performance of an a-7 three the fully articulating screen of a seven s three in the pop-up ev F- likely seen on several are x one, hundred cameras. My word. Last paragraph from them. Other specs include a single St, Card Slot USB type C both a Mike and a headphone Jack Built in Wifi and Bluetooth all this for a little more than two thousand dollars Ms Rpi at lunch. Finally, the C line of cameras will allegedly be released alongside a new line of compact lenses to match. Y already. So this is something that I think is definitely worth watching and that last line there a new line of compact lenses to match. So you get a compaq line full frame cameras based on technology that's already proven. and. If the price tag is not too high, that is going to be something to contend with. So keep an eye out. apparently, we don't have long the wait if this rumor is true and we may be talking in more detail about these sometimes later this. Brand new release from me how to get started with a vinyl records. So I finished this title and it took a lot longer than I thought it would take but I have to tell you I enjoyed every step of the way. So basically what this is how to get started with vinyl records. Is for those who are interested in getting back into vinyl or for those who are ready into vinyl, and just you know one of celebrate it and maybe pick up a few tips along the way. So I started out talking about stereo, hi Fi gear, which there is a ton of it on the used market. That you can get relatively cheap compared to what we're used to paying for electronics. So you put together a stereo receiver and APP right to get some speakers, and then you get a turntable. Now of the of those three major components, the turntables, the one thing that I recommend buying brand new and I have a recommendation for that that that only costs one hundred, twenty dollars the reason why? I recommend going with a brand new turntable is because then you get that built in digitize or with the USB cable so that you could plug the turntable not only into your Stereo Hi fi system for great listening but you can also plug that turntable directly into your computer to back up your albums to digitize them, and that is a very nice convenience. But in terms of the amp in the speakers I, really get into how do you set it all up how do you wiry speakers? Make sure that you have your speaker polarity. Correct. Make sure you get the impeachment matching all that kind of stuff is really fun and these vintage amps just look great and they sound wonderful. So that's the first part of This video is getting into that gear. Then I get into the vinyl itself the records you know what's the difference out on the market of between buying new ones and used ones? Where should you by US ones were? Can you by the new ones if you WanNa, do that what should you look for the different types of vinyl that are out there? You know there's a hundred eighty gram records one, hundred, twenty gram records there's. Different things, all of this is great fun but it really helps to know what's going on with all of this. So I talk about that talk about care. I talked about cleaning records that maybe get from garage sale or something like that and what to look for in those records. So I get into all that and then the third phase of this one hour online. Course is digitizing these albums so that you can not only listen to them at home in front of your Stereo Hi fi setup but you can have them on your phone on your smartphone or on your tablet and put in some ear buds and when you're out for a walk or you're at the beach or something you can also listen to your vinyl music so. That it isn't landlocked at home connected to your turntable in your hi FI system. So I get in how to do that and the tools that you need for that. So it covers basically I think all the stuff that you need to know to either get started or to take the record collection that you already have that you're not really tapping into and maybe start. Tapping into it maybe start digitizing some of this stuff or maybe make upgrade to a component or whatever I really like this online course I think is very enjoyable in now especially when we're spending a lot of us are spending more time at home music is one of the things sets really helped me get through this period of time without going crazy without going nuts. If you're interested in this at all have a link to the trailer in the show notes here you can go to the Nimble photographer dot com click on workshops. It'll be there along with my other online courses have online courses on CDs of online course digitizing family memories of online course on video conferencing like a pro. Yeah, I've been busy I've been busy lately I've got a lot of good stuff for you there. So Goer to nimble photographer dot com take a look at it. This vinyl thing fun. There's going GonNa leave it right there. Okay, the stick, a little virtual camera club business or so I, WanNa give a shout out to our inner circle members. These are the folks that support this community in this podcast a month in and month out. Could not do it without them and I'm so happy to have them not only for their financial support. But also because they are such a great group of artists to bounce ideas off and then they keep me motivated to keep producing new stuff for them to look at and for our entire community. So they are just so hell on. So levels. Thank you inner circle members for your support. I truly appreciate it, and if you want to become part of. This elite group of artists then all you have to do is go to the digital story dot Com look for the Patriots tile on every page click on it that'll take you over to our patriots site in like what you then you can join us and then you too will be an inner circle member and have a very special place in my heart we have be h in Amazon tiles on the pages of the digital story there in that second column. When I talk about you know gear and the new Sony. Camera Audio Technica turntable all that kind of stuff if you're going to add that to your toolbox of tricks. Then if you would go to the digital story I depending on where you're gonNA, get it either at Amazon or being h click on those tiles i. Don't take your to site, and then you can search and finally every want when I do links in the show notes or articles to specific pieces of equipment. Those are affiliate link so you don't have to do anything extra if you click on the link and tissue the B. N. H. Then that isn't affiliate link you don't have to do anything extra by doing that You help support the show and it doesn't cost you a penny more and I so appreciate those of you who take that extra step to help support this podcast. Thank you very much and finally a huge shot to our friends at Red River paper our longest running sponsor they are the folks they are the folks that provide everything that you need to know about inkjet printing. In terms of tutorials in terms of reviews in terms of paper in terms, of INC, they have at all. They're the only ones that I use I have to tell you right now I get requests for Prince all the time, and now people say, and then what kind of Red River stock are you going to put it on? I, love that and ensure Red River paper loves it as well. We have a tile on all the pages of the digital story click on it. They'll take you over to our landing page at red, river paper and you can nose around from there. They also have a terrific facebook page at facebook dot com slash Red River paper a big thanks to them for supporting this podcast. Right that's going to do it for me this week. I hope you enjoy the show. I. Hope these shoot some video and then find a cool way to edit it. Got More things in the works come back and join the next week. Until then have a great week, he created stay safe. Bye Bye now.

Mac facebook Sony Sony US Youtube editor Luby Red River Toronto adobe Ken Burns Olympus
"Is DxO PhotoLab 3 the Alternative You've Been Looking For?"

The Digital Story

32:25 min | 1 year ago

"Is DxO PhotoLab 3 the Alternative You've Been Looking For?"

"PODCAST number seven twenty four February fourth with two thousand twenty. Today's theme is is Dick. So photo lab three the alternative that you've been looking for I'm Derek story stories. We spend a fair amount of time talking about light room. Aluminum capture one. And but there's another call the image editor out there that should be in the conversation as well. The ECHO lab three it features powerful tools digestible instable interface and reasonable cost. And we're going to pull back the curtain on this terrific APP on today's TVs photography podcast. I I hope you enjoy the show. I became a fan of software with optics pro editing extension for photos. And it's really cool because you know photos of especially in its earlier days of fairly simple APP and no way. Did you have things like Lens corrections or haze reduction in the basic APP itself. So we's editing extensions to extend the capability of US and one of my favorites has been from the day I launched. It is Optics pro for photos and there. I got to know a bit more about their philosophy in what they do and basically what optics pro does and what photo lab does and what DX. Oh does in general is that they write these modules. Each camera has a module in each lens for that camera has a module they have tons of these things tons of them and then when you upload a raw file while and you open it in either the XL optics pro or infertile APP. Three wherever you happen to be using the application location you know reads what What the hardware was what the camera was? And what the Lens was and then either downloaded or ask you if it can download the modules for that hardware. And what happens is that then. It applies These wonderful wonderful lens corrections Helps you know eliminate distortion. You know all the sort of imperfections that come with our lenses That are transmitted transmitted into raw files. And then you can go from there after it's done it's magic I mean you can stop right there and you've improved your photo especially the the lenses that have a fair amount of barrel or pin cushion distortion. You can stop right there. But then you can keep going with their tools and they have some exquisite. Is it tools for making the image even better after it's been optically refined so this is really a cool approach and what the evolution Lucien has been as I've watched a DX. Oh move you know through optics pro and then evolve into the call all photo lab now and we have the third version of federal That's out is that the application has just become a little bit more robust. Oh Bust A little bit easier to use and integrates a little bit better with other tools and one of those other tools happens to be A nick software so the EXO has had a other pieces of software and their portfolio. One of my favorite Is Film Pack. And I think I'm using film pack five right now which just gives you all these wonderful you know analog looks for your digital images but a awhile. Back they acquired from Google The Nick Software Suite and not only did they integrate it into what they were doing. They also went through all that code and updated the code. You know made it. Modern made it so that it worked on current machines put a lot of work into it. The result is that the current suite of Nick Software. APPS is really quite good. Well now when you work work with Fudd lab you have all these different pieces of software that Kinda come together in this one application in is really powerful. In addition to having browsing tools star rating accept and reject. You have projects. You know all sorts of goodies here so that it really could be your one and only really it really could be your one and only What I WANNA do is just give you a little primer primer on this application? So that it's on your radar. You can download a free thirty day trial and really get to know it. And what's really really nice about it. Is that it points to your existing finder based system. So this is especially good for photographers. Who already have an organized? Hard disk or organized pictures folder. Were they have folders and sub folders and their images you know. All kind of organized again is very nice and neat on the hard drive so they could just go in there and find what they're looking for. What photo up three does is that you point in it To a hard drive it could be an external can be internal whatever you know wherever you're images are and then You see that on the left side. I on the on the library side. You see that structure and so then you can just go to where the images are and it Logjam the men. It doesn't import them. The Way Light Room does but it acknowledges them which allows you to do all sorts of things for one thing you know. It's it looks agencies of a needs to download any additional modules. Did you use a new camera or something like that. You know to make sure that it has all the Lens Correction Modules and everything that it needs but then it also allows you once it acknowledges the images to do the star ratings to do you know the except in decline line To create projects you can create projects where you can take images from here there and everywhere and put them in a project so that it doesn't mess mess up. You know how you have things organized on your hard drive so there's a lot of things you can do in the library area of the application you know once it. It knows that you want to work on those images. Whatever that folder happens to be and it works really well? It's really fast. You don't have to wait for import. You know all that stuff just goes so very smoothly. I really like it if you have done a thirty day. Trial and you thinking. Wow I I really like this then you have two options for buying it and you can buy the essential version for a hundred and twenty nine dollars and they have the elite beat version for one hundred ninety nine dollars so this is a perpetual license. Both are excellent but you get some excellent additional sophisticated tools. Dell's with elite. Plus you get three activation with the late and you get to activation with essential so for today's show. I'm GonNa talk talk about elite because it really has some great stuff in there and I like essentials but I like the few the tools that elite has at essentials. This doesn't have. We're just GONNA go with elite today but you know they do a nice checklist so that you can see the features that are in both versions of the APP and then pick the one. That's it's right for you so as I mentioned before it's complete image organization in editing environment. it has the Photo Library Library Tab. And then has to customize tab the photo library tab is where you get to do the browsing where you can do the star ratings It has has a very good Meta data. Read out so you can see the Meta data for the image. You know all that kind of organizational stuff happens in the library and as I mentioned before if you have good finder base system already. This is really going to look nice in that left hand column on the application you really really get to have it both ways because you do get to have projects That Elida pull images in from all over and you do get to do star ratings and all that stuff so it's finder based but with extra goodies. And then the fun really begins. When you click on the customize tab because that's where you get to? Have you know all the editing tools and there's a bunch of really good stuff here stuff that I've been using for a long time and stuff that I want to share with you right now. So what they liked to do when we talk about customizing your images. I'm GonNa talk about the five things that I really like the best. These are my five favorites as same working with this application and the first one is the DAX optics modules themselves. These things make such a big difference for instance how the images look in. Of course you get to do Compare you know when you're in the APP so it has a couple of different ways it has the sliding curtain where you can see the before and after or has a compare button that you can click on but either way depending on your lands in. Your camera is really an incredible notable difference it it just looks better. The distortion is flattened out. All sorts of little things go on. It's wonderful optimization. I I've had modules for almost every lens camera combination that I use I. I don't know how many they have but I know there's a ton of them and I just have to say that the top the heap when I think about photo lab my favorite things still is this module's system that they have and like I said they'll ask you if you bring in a new camera bring being in a new land They'll ask you if you WANNA download the modules my opinion as always say yes because they are cool then after that they're just in there a and they'll just apply now you have controls over that if you don't want them to automatically apply but I I just think that the modules are at the top of my list of favorite things about about this app the second thing and this is something that I really got to experience back in the optics pro. Editing extension is the smart lighting. And what it is intelligent and dynamic range expanders that recovers highlight detail and unblocks the shadows in a does it very nicely so instead of and you do have highlights and shadows sliders so you know you can still do that in this application. But what I like about smart lighting is that it analyzes the image and then it applies the algorithm. What it thinks is the right approach and then you have an intensity slider with it so then you can move that intensity slider to apply more of the effect or less than the effect and you also have modes if you if you if the anticipate ciders too much for you? Then you can. Do you know like strong mode. I think it has has four different modes slight medium strong and custom. So you can go that way too and then just look at the difference in the image. The smart lighting lighting is clearly very smart. I love it for doing highlights and shadows because there seems to be some. You know extra secret sauce in there beyond beyond on that and is just terrific tool. I fell in love with back when I first was introduced to optics pro. And I've been in love with it. Ever sense dances definitely on my five favorite features list The third feature is DX clear view plus and You know that's it's like the Hayes reducer that we see some of the other apps. It improves contrast and sharpness by removing the effects of atmospheric haze and fog and and It does so very well in fact sometimes for me it does so too well and I mean this is a pretty powerful tool and you know what I I used to do with Similar tolls and other APPS. Is that a lot of times. I would go ahead and use those tools. Even there wasn't hazing fog just because it gave a little bit more pop to the image. I don't find myself doing that with clear. View plus if the image is already clear already captured and clear conditions. I you we know. I use the other tools but clearview is I mean it's robust and I think it's a little too much. But when you do have hastened fog or just atmospheric gunk. It does a wonderful job of cutting through. It is definitely one of my five favorite tools in this application. The fourth one is prime noise reduction and I think he only get prime in the elite version. The feels like all the other APPs has been improving their noise reduction Over time light rooms worked on their noise reduction. I know in this latest version of capture when pro version twenty You know they improve the noise reduction and it is better definitely better. It's it's good and capture one pro twenty. I like it so they have two versions available available within their noise reduction panel they. Have you know H Q which is fast does a very nice job and they have prime which is the heavy duty one both both work well but you know prime. Is the one when you when you want. Noise reduction done to the best of its ability. PRIMIS away to go and it works on luminance. You know works on color it attacks dead pixels is good noise reduction definitely in my top five things that I like about this APP and then the fifth thing that I want to mention is control point technology and this is where you you you take the targeted cursor you put it in an area that you can expand how many pixels are contract them. You can do all sorts of different things. He's very good. I don't know if you've ever used it before. But it's very powerful and it works really well. I believe this is something that they've built upon from from Nick Software. But you haven't talked to them about the specifically at any rate if you find yourself doing localized edits allot this. This is really good stuff. This is really good. Stuff is a very easy way to go once you get the hang of it. It just works terrific really. That's so other goodies. That are really appreciate includes you know the integration with a net collection and film pack five so if you have a license for either of those us then that's integrated right into photo lab and I have a license for both of them and I just love this integration. I just feel like there's so much I can do just like right here. And when you work with the Nick tools inside a photo lab You know basically you pick which you want silver effects color effects whatever you happened to be doing and then it works like an extension to just opens up that that image it creates you know another version of that image it opens is it up and In the interface. You do what you want. And then you save it and saved right back into the application. It works really well so so you have a lot of tools and at the same time they have a ton of presets built into photo lab itself. So there's lots of room for plane lane being creative experimenting all that good stuff and like I said if you have a license for the nick collection then you're really tall cotton. You really are something that I personally like a lot and I think they have solved a problem that I wish capture one pro would address and two photos. Does the reason why I like. This is because yes. This is a hard disk based APP in other words they don't have any cloud. Connectivity built a photo lab per se but I can work on an image. You know do whatever I want to it and then I can just add the photos and you know I can choose the parameters in their sticky. So if you're always like I descend them over full-size right and I confirmed J. PAG and send them over full size and they go my photos up. Then they're just in my photos APP now you know the Meta data intact You know they have all the optical corrections directions that I've already done. They have the editing. The JEDI itself. You Know Rather I've done you know noise reduction or whatever I've done it's all Bundled up and then sent him the photos. Now that becomes you know my archive for that shot ended also you know migrates across all of my devices vices. So then it's on my Mac. It's on my iphone so my ipad everywhere. So what they're doing is they're leveraging you know the I cloud connected city that Mac users have access to from within their APPs so they don't have to reinvent the wheel the wheels already rolling down the highway. All they have to put a chassis on top of it and go along for the ride. I mean I just love it in fact the way that I use this APP the most is when I'm on the road when I'm traveling really light when I'm in an super nimble photographer mode what I'm carrying with me is an eleven inch macbook air. I got a powerful one. I got a great deal on way back when and is so. Oh good for travel. You can open it up on a plane. For example you know and stuff like that is very light so I'm using DX. Oh photo lab on on that device and I have all these wonderful editing tools nick collection the whole deal and I can do my sorts. You know his basically weekly all I do is just pointed to the folder of images. You know that I the working on her that I just shot and then for the stuff that is three stars are above the hotel room or whatever I just select those in click on the ad to photos and boom. They're in my photos library now. The Jay peg versions a High Rise J. Peg versions are in my photos library and I've done a backup of my most important shots even really having to work as a minute. They're sent over to the photos APP on my Mac Book Air. They're everywhere as long as I'm connected to the Internet so this is just a great system and then you know when get back to the studio and I have all those images you know. I can do whatever I want with them. I could leave them in a photo lab. I could put them in. Capture one gave put him in light room. Put them in the Rafah's and photos. Whatever I WANNA do I can do but when I'm on the road what I like to do is be able to add it and it works great on these older machines photo lab and then just have backup taking care of right from within the APP so this is a very big deal for me? Other features editor has just Just kind of round out. The conversation has excellent Meta data display. Really this is really attractive. Dated display so. You can see everything that's going on with your image. It does have keyword functionality. It's got a ton of built in presets. This has very strong compared tool so you can see different ways to see before. And after you can customize the workspace in this APP which I think is very very nice as something I also like about capture one pro it has copy and paste corrections it has a virtual copies and it has retouched tools. This is a good good application. I'm really surprised that is not in the conversation more than it is. Maybe because photo lab is fairly they knew but remember. Even though photo lab itself is fairly new is built upon optics pro which they've been working on for a long time so this is not like Oh you know a version one point oh of application. That's missing a ton of stuff. It has a ton of stuff already because really it's more the name as new and and they find the kind of round it out but the application itself is built on technology. They've been doing for years. And I use it on my super nimble eleven eleven inch macbook air travel computer and it just works wonderfully. You've already looked at capture when pro and you for some reason it doesn't and grab you and you're tired of light room for whatever reason that may be and for some reason. Maybe you're not on a MAC and you you don't want Photos as your as your main APP. Use it more for other stuff. Clouding integrating with this APP. You know luminaires has Maybe disappointed you Hasn't evolved exactly the way a lot of us thought it. Would you know if you Kinda gone through those staps. Then I would think this is the next APP to look at as you're trying to figure out what's the best way for you to go in two thousand twenty. You know to manage your library great to get great looking images and get the most out of your files photo lab three definitely a contender. DDS sound by. Now those of you that hang out on the facebook page in our inner circle members know about this already he some of you may not know about and I really want to make you aware of his. I think it's a great idea. I do so what I do is I have this new feature that I I published every Wednesday called TVs soundbites and what they are. Technology tidbits that our five minutes or less so I cover digital photography ideal mobile computing smart home and more now I have published three sound bytes. So far This week we'll have a another one. We'll have the fourth one and I'm just going to keep going. I like this idea. I think it's fun and the whole the whole thing about it. Is that you. I probably already have a slot in your week when you listen to the podcast in I so appreciate that I. I love being part of your week but I wanted to do something that can't just when you felt like it. You had a coffee break or you know you're just sort of hanging out waiting in the grocery line or at the doctor's office something like that. We just wanted to listen to a nice little tidbit and learn something and hang out with me in five minutes or less. That's what these are for. So so far. I've covered in camera raw processing. That was the first soundbite slow sync flash those the second one business discard flash. modifier is the third one. And I'm not gonNa tell you the fourth one even though I already know what it is and that will happen this week. Okay and we're going to keep going and all you have to do is go to the digital story. If you want to listen to a sound bite just good at digital story and Just look look for the newest soundbite. up in the recent entries box. And if you listened to the newest one I put the links to the other ones that they are so I gotta do is get get the latest one and then you can see the ones that preceded it or if you want just enter soundbites in the search box on the digital story in and click the search button and it'll show you all of them because I tag them all so you can go either way. They're very easy to get to always be one in the recent entries. Box Up there at the top of the site but you can also use search if you want to get all the individual ones give it a listen let me know what you think I also so when I posted new sound bite I also tweet about it and I put it on the facebook page as well. I think they're fun. I I love to hear what you think about the Oh then. Cat Three five six five carbon-fiber tripod this was are I inner circle review and so excited in published. It's publish David hearn. wrote it and It's on the site right now. in case you missed What this is all about for our inner circle members? We've worked out this partnership with being h photo and what they will do is provide us with equipment to review and so I have a list of things that I can choose from. I decide you know like for the first one that we're GONNA do this. carbon-fiber were tripod that cost I think two hundred ten dollars so then I let the nation is a hey. We'd love to review this. They say okay. Where do you want us to send it? And then inner circle members are able to throw their hat in the ring. Say Hey I love to review that I randomly pick one. Then send them the item in in this case. David got the carbon-fiber Tripod then he tests. It writes a little piece about five hundred words. All I asked his five hundred words and then he gets the hang hanging on to the item. So you know we're very upfront about what's going on. This is for fun for our listeners and our readers you know who want these. The reader reviews done by their peers. Right people that are in our photography community screener circle members guesses the benefit they can lobby for and actually get some equipment that they don't have to buy and is great for me because I get to pull all these people together. I feel like a matchmaker right. uh-huh and pulling H in my inner circle members and our web audience. You know we're all just at this party so the first one that that we published By David is about this pretty cool. Oben C. T. Three five six five carbon fibre tripod. It's really nice. It's a fairly light with head Ed. Three point two pounds. He says that it's very stable. For microphone thirds cameras in particular and A lot of us are shooting microphones. There's in this this audience so I think it's very apropos. And then he gets his analysis and you know his bottom line is that This is a good tripod on at a good price. Two hundred ten bucks for carbon-fiber tripod and his bottom line is that you know he really likes carrying it around. It's Nice and light. It works very well. And he's very happy with it so the review is on the digital story and I also put it in the show notes and of course if you look at the pictures and read read the review and you like what you see. There's a link to it in the show notes that take your to be h photo Where you can buy it and a big thanks to David for publishing this this and if you're a Patriot member our next item up for review? I should be able to pose sat here in the next few days so stay tuned in. They were GonNa do it all again. Just a quick note about our upcoming workshops. We're pretty well set for the L. A. Street photography experience. I have a good crew. I pretty much locked and loaded for that If you decide that you really do wanNA come it's on March thirteenth through fifteen Just use the contact form on the number photographer and let me know that you're interested in it but the one that I'm really thinking about about now and I want to get folks registered and ready to go as a Humboldt redwoods coast workshop and that's going to be on May twelve through fourteen twenty twenty. Were Really GonNa pick up the pace on preparing for that. Now we're staying at our fabulous favorite place up in Fortuna at a redwood. Ed Wood River Walk Hotel Right on the banks of the Eel River socal just a just a wonderful event all the way around. And so if if you're on the reserve list of for that you're going to be hearing from me here in the next week or two As we start to wrap up and get ready for that workshop in May and and If you WANNA come to that workshop I think we still have a one-seat available Again you can go over to the nimble photographer DOT COM and Put down a deposit there or you can send me a note via the contact form already and then after that we're going to be Talking about lassen volcanic park in July. And as I mentioned last week the eastern Sierra Photography Workshop October one through three twenty twenty. This is one of our best workshops that we've ever done. I've I think I've done it three times up there if you want to see the eastern Sierra in the fall in visit places like Mona Lake in June lake this is the workshop for you and we still have a couple of seats open. They're October Tober. One through three twenty twenty. What a wonderful workshop years? I'm GonNa have so much fun with you. Guys are really can't wait to breath. Still Virtual Camera Club News. Big thanks to Oliver. Inner Circle Members. Thank you so much for supporting this podcast month month. In and month out and I'll be seeing you over at our patriots site As we talk about our next inner circle review item and and if you're interested in becoming an inner circle member if you want to get in on the reviews if you want to support this show just click on the Patriot tile. That's on all the pages of of the digital story. Also on a mention that if you're GONNA make a purchase from being h photo or Amazon we have tiles on all the pages ages a digital story in the second column there if you click on one of those I for instance like this new open. CARBON-FIBER TRIPOD Taos talking about for two hundred ten ten dollars. If you click on the beach tile first and then go over or click on any of the links in the articles in show notes Those have affiliate code in there and that affiliate credits US digital story for the purchases that are made from either B. N. H. or Amazon via that Click through and finally be sure to visit our friends at Red River paper and indeed they are friends. They are printing central. They they have everything that we need to know about. inkjet printing and I just have gone through another spurt of printing. I have to tell you Working with their paper referring to their site when I forget how to do something Reading reviews getting envelopes and stuff all that good stuff. I have to say a Red River. Paper just makes printing so much better you can visit them by clicking on the tile on all the pages of digital story the Red River for paper tile or you can go to their facebook page at facebook dot com slash Red River paper and a big thanks to them for their support all right. It's going to do it for me this week. I hope you enjoyed the show. I'll tell you this the Xhosa three player Working on some more great stuff. I can't talk about it quite yet but I will be able to come back and join me next week and find out what's going on until then have a great week Bye Bye now

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The Copyright Infringement Superhighway

B&H Photography Podcast

1:16:02 hr | 2 years ago

The Copyright Infringement Superhighway

"You're listening to the b n h photography podcast for over forty years being age it's been the professional source for photography video audio and more fear favor gear news and reviews visit us at b n h dot com or download the being h app you're i phone or android device now here's your host alan white greetings and welcome to the being h photography podcast david deal is the founder of in principle attorney at the law office of david see deal tlc located katie in charlottesville virginia he is a nationally recognized intellectual property attorney specializing in copyright infringement matters on behalf of photographers and businesses david has successfully litigated cases of all sizes and complexities and then majority audio federal jurisdictions recently david successfully represented photographer russell brammer in his appeal of a federal court ruling that a non profits film festival that used one of his photos they found on flicker had not violated copyright by using it crops version of that very same photograph gaydos also photographer and his own right since two thousand and one older books published prospects a portrait of minor league baseball the collection david photographs in short essays on minor league baseball he's fine art photographs are included in the permanent collections of major museums and private collectors and united states we're gonna talk to david about the bram a case of also tried to clarify eight few legal questions that we have welcome to the show david thank you very much it's great having you here let's start talking about this abramov vs violent used productions case gives the background that what happened a the case is actually the facts of the case are actually quite simple and a mr bremmer is a twenty something year old a photographer just starting out a he took a very nice welcome posed a well thought out photograph of a of a city escape ends a defendant in the case violent used productions who runs v northern virginia film festival decided to u's mr hours photograph as well as a number of other photographs on eight page depicting places that filmmakers and and a guest to the film festival might visit while they were in northern virginia and washington dc and obviously didn't sit well with if with my client ends when we contacted the film festival they they refused any kind of negotiation and refused any kind of compensation so through a really a kind of a a cork a it ended up landing with a certain judge in the in the eastern district of virginia who you at least from my perspective didn't wanna dedicate too much time to the to the to the real legal matters and an dismissed the case based upon the defendants a assertion of areas and that's how it ended up where is that were quick to judge really didn't understand the rules of copyright law we don't know a v opinion was remarkably for for such a a what can be a a complex and nuanced a legal issue fair use it as a three page opinion and and that's covering for distinct elements of fair use as defined by the supreme court so it was short and sweet a you know if i were to guess i think the judge you wanna get rid of it and but with that we we we were given an opportunity any opportunity was we were unwilling to two lives by the the judge's decision and we appealed the fourth circuit and that gave us a chance to to fully argue it in both a brief form as well as oral arguments before the judges now do you think one of the reasons why the judge might have just blown it off for lack of better words is because the photograph that we used wasn't representing this is my photograph i took this photograph new is being used for any kind of monetary gain really it was used as an illustration as a guy said people visiting this festival so it's kind of like twice removed right do you think that might have had any bearing on it yes in the bigger picture the bigger pictures i mean the the reason why this case is so i i i would stopped short of calling it important but ultimately the the circuit court ruling in the overturn a you know be a the decision overturned the district court's decision is is important because there's been even even in my relatively short period of practicing copyright law in limited to two photographers there has been this slow constance steady creep scored v opinion about judge an end that is well you know what i am i'm summarizing kind of everything i hear on a daily basis but we didn't release views it so we really gain anything from it or not we didn't put it on t shirts and we put it on mugs and were not were not gaining directly from that image and you know if anything you know we we helped her client and in these i i hear variations of these saying was longer for his name did appear anywhere in their burrows user credit get into any of these photographs guy say we're giving the crew the photographer yeah by the defendant now and you know in this case is a little it's a little bit different but they argument by by the defending this case is is something that here on a daily basis which is well we didn't really know it's so complicated you know the internet it's so complicated all we did we we performed a google search we found this mitch end end you know were i mean look at us were really small you know it's you know no one no one seeing this page and therefore there's no harm done end as a former photography as a former commercial photographer and now isn't attorney that's aside from being inaccurate right you know according according to the to the law it's offensive because thank you that that's not that's not the standard the standard it is not a you know there's no harm done you know the the the level that we used in the way that we used it a you know quite possibly help helped her client they issue is that things things have been things there is slow steady creep toured if you never caught us you know there'd be there'd be no harm harm done in what people don't understand is a photographer commercial drivers is specially commercial photographers they're working in the environment now a they don't have an established a body of film or a you know their work has been widely disseminated it it all but eliminates the value of photographs when they're copied and disseminated because once they get out without a credit and without compensation without some way to to link back to the the photographer the value of that photograph just dies oh yeah and that's the issue a end i think in the judges defense she is probably in tune with this kind of the general consensus of the general public which is is you know relive in a different world it's different than it was fifteen years ago it's different than the internet makes things somehow makes things different and there's this area that wouldn't otherwise exist if it works the internet where individuals that are huge companies and doing millions of dollars of business congest trade in this practice of just copying small scale copying and dissemination of people's and that is so inaccurate because from personal experience pre internet days i had my photos ripped off a date appearing magazines and all of a sudden i have friends will open i would get in menu from a restaurant and they using one of my picture is or an ad for a big holiday sale at a men's big boy shop using one and things of that sort you know we are the directly using the forever or just really doing a horrible retouching like scratching appeared on somebody's face and this is before the internet this is when people just saw pictures and grab them right so it's nothing new at all one one thing i'm just curious about there on the site that they found this flicker photograph there was a copyright notice wasn't there there was 'cause you're gonna say there's a multiple choice about what levels of conway anyways click anyways as right air google's responsible for ninety something percent of all searches in the world google has eighty a a notice directly below every single image but you source as a result of eight search that says this image maybe subject the copyright right annual and it's just it is unacceptable for someone to both you know legally and otherwise to search for something on google and throw up their arms after they get caught and say well all i did was go google what do you expect i mean i you know i it the photographers name wasn't water my you know it wasn't watermark across image that that is that is something that unfortunately is becoming just much much more acceptable and photographic copyright is to my knowledge the only area of law any only area of a intellectual property where it's acceptable for someone that appropriates someone's photograph to to use that type of defense where you could just you you and i and i do believe people are are honest and straightforward about it when they when they do break out the defense of you know what what's the harm it's just this little damage there wasn't a watermark on it i mean that that kind of standard of you apply it anything else people would laugh you out of the room and i ask question though here i mean are we gonna ask judges and and going forward the legal system and define how we value photography because as you're kind of indicating anymore elements in pre internet a big issue is you know do we value and image that we find or any image that matter and obviously when there's so many more humans being created new value maybe tending to go down you kind of implied the judge may have been just you know going with the flow or or he see may perhaps feel the same with a lot of people feel which is okay it just an image no harm no foul let's just go ahead and using so is it gonna take you know some major case they're like just put a slam breaks on this whole idea and perhaps tried to get the whole society the change the way they're thinking is that even possible i i do think it's possible i mean photography's it it's easy to do that it's easy for you for a user's inappropriate photographs will do that because they only in most places the only place that it exists is online so it's not not a print it's not really a a sculpture that occupies the lobby you know it's it's not a magazine you board understand why the liberty of stone daily that's right end along with the notion that a if you copy it it's just gonna go away like if you after you use use it you know kind of the harm is the potential harm is gone but that's the that's what makes photography different is that when you're viewing it on a screen it somehow a little bit more detached than eight eighty a physical object that occupies different space then a photograph does end you know in my experience just in the past couple of years it matters i mean i the bribery case is a perfect example i mean the grammar case is small potatoes i mean fundamentally it is it is it is a small case but there there is a tremendous value in my client didn't think twice about appealing it in my my firm didn't think twice about representing him and they appeal is because it matters it matters that we challenge the judges that that have this notion that something so important in could end end nuance can be dismissed potentially be dismissed so easily but it's also important because a you know things have changed because prior to the prior to the fourth circuit a overturning the case opposing counsel use the throw that case in my face and say hey and say well you know you're familiar with brad or you know and so it's important to be vip world is specifically the photograph copyright world is is relatively small an when when and certain attorneys you know usually plaintiff's attorneys make a point of not folding 'em in the end that's not exactly that's the right word but not just kind of going with the flow it makes a difference because now you know i can go i go back to those same attorneys that that through the through the district court opinion in my face and say look this is not only it's not only been overturned but it's over but overturned by an appeals court end not only is it been overturned but be opinion is it's detailed it's it's very precise ended ended addresses every single element every single one of the four elements that make up the consideration of fair used very thoroughly we talk about can you mentioned the four elements and how they applied in this case in general a the defendant in the case made made a variation of what what the vast majority of defendants make the same kind of thing the same kind of arguments is not a legal argument it say everyone everyone lumps all of their excuses into the ferries argument it's various like most people don't even bother going into the four elements a but so in this case the dc appeals court ruled on every single all four of them they ruled in favor like demonstrably in are favor in all four of them and gave gave very specific reasons why a so thee and i know you're gonna put me on the spot 'cause i can't i can't remember the order of elements but so so one of them is v a the the nature of the work so whether or not it's a photograph of eighty a an empty kitchen table or it say it's a photograph of ito v these clips you know the the in in in kind of artfully done in you know in in a remote location that that you know who the opportunity to to capture an image only comes along once every once every fifty years there's a difference there's a difference between a although there there there's a minimum level of originality a bit it's built into the copyright statute there's a difference there's a difference between a photograph of a white wall an end in the end the difference of a the be a collapse in that there's the the court considers a the level of creativity level of work required v artistic sensibility a the difficulty all of those things financial investment mendoza consider that for somebody who let's say went to the other side of the world and get a photo not explicitly but it's but it's in it's in herron to that consideration so that that's part of it and in this case you know mr brammer secured a rooftop location and take the photographs specifically to take a photograph a he worked at the details of being there at a certain time and it's and on private property od on at a at a certain a certain location where he knew a you know the light who's gonna be right time of day what's gonna be defined what's gonna be setting in a certain time he produces image that you know is is fairly artistic i mean it's it's not a snapshot it's a it's a photograph that uses a timing exposure and they lose intent i just you know taking up the phone and going absolutely his interpretation going on it's not just a straight recreates in specific things going on right here that had to be controlled by the photographer right and that's that's part of the consideration so v 'em the the fourth one the fourth element in which the supreme court is that is the is the most important is effect of they use on the market for the photographer so how how v appropriation of the work affects the be the the market for that photo or that work of art 'em forty author and in this case the the great thing about photography is mr brammer like all of my clients are their commercial photographers they you know these days it was it hasn't always been the case but these days the business model is completely different from when it was fifteen twenty years ago and even am old enough and i was shooting long enough to know what the model was twenty years ago which was you marketed you're work to certain very predictable art buyers in an editor's in hopes of getting hired to shoot a job that they would then select a the edits and license what they want it now a i would i would say the vast majority of my clients which i think are which i think is a is a fairly fairly accurate snapshot of the of the industry is that you shoot they shoot as much as they possibly can they they pay for trips all over the world to to photograph certain events they they act much much more like stock shooters than they do assignment shooters and the business model is that they they use the the the free or very very low cost platforms the display their work flicker is a perfect example a some of my clients been shooting for forty years and are in in in extremely accomplished and they still use later display that work because it's cheap and it's everyone knows who it is and they kind of flicker kind of has the has the the the they occupy this spot in online where everyone everyone knows where to go in the business model is much more of hey stock like business model where you produce the work its search double it's out there and in theory win buyers and editors instead of instead of starting from scratch and hiring somebody to shoot a shot but they have in their mind they are they wanna get they they're able to search this vast you know this vast search database of existing images so there's there's much more in the end assignment photography still exist but i i would venture to say probably my clients on average fifty percent of their business customer reviews in licensing where before i would argue probably it was probably five or ten percent so when someone like violent hughes shakes photographing doesn't license it that's that's directly affecting my clients bottom line because that they rely on on proper licensing of of their work they were far less reliant on assignment to assignment work to to make up their bottom line make any difference if it was someone who didn't defined himself as a photographer somebody who had a flicker accomplishes put up the word could they have when the taken they had their day job would that make a difference or should they negative and it does make a difference in the violent hughes kind of attempted to make that point a seal words if you are just a casual and suzy's posting stuff on flicker your photographs has lessened valley and then somebody take that same picture of who he lies on every picture and make a buck no end so that's how they do business model helps photographers of all types there isn't any very high percentage of of of decent photographs the debtor in circulation available unsearchable that are taken by amateur photographers and they happen to be there happened to be wonderful photographs end these excuse or the or the rationalization of of a one of a defendant to argue well this person doesn't mean he's not even here she's not even a commercial photographer like what what's the big deal that's that's the exact wrong arguments to make it doesn't make any difference legally a v ideas is that you know someone could someone could walk down the street in and take someone's bicycle off their lawn and then rationally by saying they don't really use the bicycle anyway that they're missing the entire point they even keep it on the lawn you can't ride on alone they don't even have no but in this case they need defendant you also i from what i read tried a you know a few other techniques or a few other arguments including the fact that you know well we'll let you yeah so the so the big one the big one in this case that cause so much so much dismay in indy in the the the legal community was this argument that the defendant exercise good good face in in their use of the photograph which up to this point had never been recognized as a factor at all right well i take that back bad face had been used against a defendant goodfaith had never been used as an asset for for defending and they tried to defend and tried to turn tried used the inverse of the bad faith argument that quartet of course i recognize the violent used to have a lawyer that was you know well versed in this and what is the case then you know lawyers decided to take up because it's a big case unless tried a fight it out or it just happened to be you know yes they did they and they they had they had profit in the beginning out photographer hired two really big lawyers have outdoor ice to big lawyers jumped in to help out yes so they a violent shoes originally originally attempted to represent themselves a they're not permitted to do that because of their their business entity so they they hired is not the right word but kirkland and ellis a agreed to represent them pro bono so at at any given time in the case is the lack of by the way because were back in front of the district court a but at any given time kirkland alice's employed furry i think three's probably maybe for employs broke out on the case so kirtland else's is a giant farm with tremendous resources they know what they're doing but you know this is this is something that is it is a non lawyers find you rightfully very very frustrating is that you know otherwise very educated very intelligent individuals can make these arguments that that are just not viable and they flip stick it to save the show they use good faith because one there nonprofit they're helping out the photographer they they pull demons down right away this is their argument or less right that's right in therefore they should not be liable and that there was no a there was no water marker no a credit embedded in the photograph but this is all kind of boil down to this this idea that we keep getting out which is that our we value photos i mean do they basically saying well no again no harmless really done in let's not worry about this person this a tug refer let's just get on with it you know and and let let the internet marketing kennedy what's going on yeah in the end that's be i mean that's the battle that's about all we we i mean my i'm the we is my clients and in in my office and lots of other attorneys at the do the same thing you know there is there is a risk that slowly but surely v i v the legal framework around round copyright and photographs is going to change in that's a horrible thing a you know it it no other no other intellectual property a discipline is subject to the same creep photography a little bit behind you other arts any other industries in the sense that they've kind of gone through this already and they've established himself redefined the legal parameters and photographers yet do that if you're actually even different from arts we just said you know different photography given in order to be i think in general has the same kind of parameters were a lot of people don't take it as seriously as say a coke formula you know or or ingredients of something a that's a commercial product i think a lot of people view photography an art work is sort of like these big flaky thing done by fake flaky people certainly that is that is certainly i mean i've i've experienced the four i mean i experienced and when i was a photographer and and i experience doesn't attorney even more where it's individuals otherwise smart intelligent individuals are very comfortable making that argument making that argument that that that art and specifically photography graffiti occupies this this place where it it's fun and an useful and it has a tremendous number of positive aspects to it but it's somehow doesn't rise to the level of of protection yeah and and that's the decision that that's a disappointing part about thanks all right so can we then kind of summarize i mean you're temporarily when the case i'm not sure what say still going on it is and what what what happens what happens procedurally is that in the federal court system the the lowest level of of a court is the united states district court a so everything starts there a if if it it's potentially potentially a case in there if there is no appeal a but we appealed the we appeal the decision on the summary judgment stage and it was essentially kick back to the district judge or the district court so the the be appeals court stepped in they said we disagree with we disagree with the district court's ruling on the on the motion for summary judgment a you must change it a circuit court essentially orders the the district court the change their rolling and then we start from where we were so we we still have a child to to prepare for a if we're gonna go forward we still have we still have a jury instructions to prepare where the where the tail end of the charles charles stage procedurally see julie but the case is not over a i i would argue that be the most important part of the other cases over the big picture is over we have this opinion a by the the court of appeals which is one one level below the supreme court that that just unequivocally lays out why in argument or a variation of the one that violent here's users is not only not fair use but it's emphatically not various a in that that's gonna it's gonna serve in unless something dramatic happened in the next couple of years the case is gonna serve as i as eight source of of hundreds and thousands of pleadings that that basically stop any any similar argument from kind of roller should i mean it may not be a big case in in terms of the money values but maybe you unimportant is it is it is absolutely look at any point a win and we bron first realized that 'em his photograph was used without his permission did he tried to contact him and say listen you might be tricky there is a fee involved he tried to sending invoices were established you see it'll always said no is that when i said okay that that is that is the story of my life i mean we thee my firm litigate plenty and we we litigate we litigate when it's necessary but what what a lot of non attorneys and a lot of defendants don't realize is that we i'm speaking of my clients in my firm exclusively but i i would you know my colleagues we share the same same approach that nobody's goal is to spend our time litigating i mean there's a time and a place but litigation is in is inherently inefficient like dramatically inefficient and this case in this case is very typical and we spent eighteen months doing everything we could try to get the company to engage in the substance of discussion about settled the case and how much did you client actually want to use this photograph which in the great scheme of things it's really a small project one picture adam many in a brochure that was a one shot it's not like it's gonna be all over the country for the next ten years we are original i think we came down a little bit but but you know when the when it's all said and done i think are demand was eighteen hundred dollars and they turned it down and not only that they eighteen hundred who is based upon a history that my client had for licensing seeing that image so it wasn't even it wasn't even it was just why are we all right yeah and they turned down an anti argument we hear your argument we hear all the time is and you know this is you know it makes my head hurt because i i this this is this is something that my office deals with all the time is that defending say well you know we were really sorry and you know you're right but we just can't afford it and my argument always is number one that's inequitable argument which has nothing to do with with the law but but my my my response is always okay well let's have an equitable argument my client as a solo practitioner who usually occupies a pretty low level on on the totem pole compared to you know an art buyer accompany advertising agency a now i planted clients that are extremely accomplished an occupied different different space but for the most part commercial photographers at her solo practitioners they are on there on the lower end of the power structure when when anybody appropriates their work without seeking permission or properly elections in the work they cannot stay in business period so if you want if if if we want to engage in an equitable argument then i'm all for it in my argument is when people steal my clients work they're out of business so it's plain and simple and also i'm sorry getting this kind of echo the question the jason had an end in against the idea of good faith that faith perhaps because they could have gone to the getty gotten an image and they're not gonna mess with getty but yet they want the flicker right where they may be thought they could kind of just escape and grab this thing so isn't that kind of showing a little bad faith to begin with i mean yeah in 'cause they're not gonna sue or they're not gonna go against getty correct radically and that and that's be exact argument the appeals court might be exact appeal they they arguments appeals court made was that if anything is the v their their actions were in bad faith because everybody knows everybody knows getty everybody knows what shutter stock as a an idea that that you can you can throw up your hands and and say well i went to flicker and i didn't consider any of these other option is just it's it's not a winning argument and in the appeals court called him on it brightly rightly so and said you know they're thousands an end you know they they argument we make all the time as plaintiffs attorneys is take the picture yourself you know if if it's not a big deal you know in the flip side to infringement a lot of the flip side to the to implement is you know once once infringe yours are are found out there well it photograph not that we could use any photograph that's typically well you see how they're all in that anyway did you you chose you chose to do the quick the you know the quick fix or the lazy facts and you decided to take someone's photograph where matterson one of the things i read in in in response the bremmer case was on why don't we take in order to really put an end to this why don't we take a take these issues out of the civil court and make it a criminal case that something that is considerable or realistic and then would that really stop people from doing it if they're facing some sort of real heavy fear or even jail time so leave it or not there is a criminal copyright statute now okay you never hear of and i've never even heard of of it it's it's never raised a end i look at it so infrequently i've looked at it but i look at it so infrequently i don't don't know i don't know the exact parameters of it but there is a criminal copyright statute it involves like the vast majority of criminal criminal statutes and unlike the civil version of the copyright infringement that is strict liability a the the criminal the criminal version of it it's very narrow has all of these men's raya a a parts to it which is there's traditionally there's say there's two parts of a a a statute criminal statute there's actors rats which means he actual actions what you did you know broken in somebody's house hit somebody over the head and then there's a men's raya aspect of it which means your state of mind or you're in ten the caught the criminal copyright the federal criminal conrad statute has both so and i believe if i'm not mistaken has even higher standard which which has includes knowledge so person to have to have violated a criminal copyrights that you have that knowledge knowledge is copyrighted you have to know exactly what you're doing to lose you have the act i think i forget what the standard is but it's like reckless standard end and i know so little about the criminal statute just because you never hear about and i'm not sure i imagine imagine like any other any other criminal statute it would have to be brought by some kind of prosecuting a body so it happy brought by you us attorney like other criminal criminal statute any being debated so it wouldn't be it would be out of the hands of of an author of a photograph okay so maybe throughout the section of but he's also a little bit but when you consider when you're looking at a case whether you're gonna take on that case a firm in case of a copyright infringement are something is there i mean you're welcome all comers in and a or do you say you know what this one's gonna really work for you and have that i play that out i i don't have a hard and fast rule a i i tend to i attend still at a you know i've been practicing for going on seven years now and i still kind of feel like i've got a little bit of a chip on my shoulder when it comes to when it comes to i think we all like the fact that you were photographer and yeah i really care about this and you know and that's not it's not enact yeah you know it it's my my clients especially ones that are starting out a in i used to do this when i was still shooting i used to feel the same way a tour younger photographers that i that i had personal relationships were asked about advising them to to you know take stand when you need it extends to to compromise when you need a compromise in the same principle a is at play here you know i i tend to i tend to give every case a chance there were some chance there there's some cases that a through a variety of factors are more anybody's time you know including including an attorney's a because you know contrary to to to what a lot of injures claim it's cases are very high maintenance and they take a lot of work they take a lot of research they take a lot of a lot of grunt work a just to make sure they were on solid legal ground we have our facts straight 'em we know who the winner of the proper entity is that that a should be concentrating plaintiffs a in that said i like taking on cases that might not be might not be large cases a but in the end a i do my best to explain my clients there there is a threshold there's a threshold that the a minimum threshold that that just needs to be bad because it's not gonna be you don't want you don't want my office or anybody else any other attorney working on a case that they're not going to be fully involved in because of certain usually financial factors you don't want that kind of representation because it doesn't do anybody any good but that said there plenty of their play of what i would consider modest cases that that we prosecuting we get we get settlements out of better it's well worth the time 'em this is a little different though because i mean the settlement may not end up being worth it i i don't have any idea but you but you looked at this case is almost like a potential home run right like this this or at least the original decision came down you're like hey this needs to be challenge and you know so that reason yes yeah and it absolutely like you get to i mean this case is a perfect example most cases never even get close to litigation to this case not only got the litigation but we proceeded through litigation almost the trial of the cases island the gate we almost never get the try we never even get close the litigation threshold is usually the usually the point where everyone comes together and says hey look we need this is ridiculous if it's not attorneys it's the judge the judge will the most sometimes judge will step in and say gentlemen we're not spending a day's worth of time in federal district court on a case like this and a it's a little disappointing but you know my my clients have no other option but the file in federal court we don't have a steak steak word options so that's why we we end up in federal court so a this case made it all the way the trial and so the bribery case is a perfect example of we're past the point of no return like like a week after we filed the case because they they lawyered up they clearly they weren't going away pro bono attorneys team of three attorneys made it very clear that they were not gonna settle the case so at that point you option of of of folding what do you think the reason was i mean why would they yeah it's wrong to say well what would enjoy here this is such a hate say nothing case it's right in the greatest game these pretty minor it is an my two cents you know there's a difference a there's a difference between a a solo practitioner like myself or even a small firm that has two or three attorneys an eight large firm in kirkland analysis is a large farm not only a large number of very large firm the difference is that cases like this case in which they agreed to take serve a very valuable purpose to their young attorneys which is practice so they get all this practice they get they get real live litigation station practice and they break they break out all the stops they follow all these motions they go through all they they redo the you know the the statute on fifty times they consult with their their their more experienced attorneys telling the do this and telling you that if i were to guess that's what happened in this guy's any other case in any other experienced attorney would not dedicate the resources in the time that they did and i think that's what happened here and they're entitled to do that and in violent hughes is entitled to entitled the seek out pro bono help it is gonna fight for them that way but it wouldn't have happened otherwise if if the dynamics were were different we're gonna take a short break and come back with more that copyright law with david deal stay tuned we hope you're enjoying this edition of the being h photography podcast send us a tweet at b h photo video pash tag b h photo podcast gas okay we are back with david deal just take it back and if you give an explanation of the digital millennium copyright act also known as d m c f sure so the digital millennium copyright act is in addition to a the copyright act specifically it deals with if it defines a what is and what is not a infringement based upon thee the the would be infringe ers physician and that that i mean the the the key terminent digital millennium copyright act is is whether or not in individual or entity qualifies as a service provider and that's the term that that that's the most important termine in the dmz hey if you qualify as a service provider then you are not liable for otherwise infringing upon people's individual love so a traditional service provider is hey a telecommunications company that handles technically handles you know well handles the traffic andy thee the digital a files a of the they represent photographs so if you are let's say horizon before the dmc hey appoint could be made technically that arise in every time they copied thee the digital version of a photograph or any other thing that's protected copywriters realizing they are they're infringing so okay the dmc ea a came along and an defined what it was to be service provider now service provider assert classic obvious service providers are exactly described telecommunications companies that that really serve as a conduit for for this information it's been expanded a little bit to include a entities that that don't handle handle the the the raw traffic in the raw digital information but serve as a platform for others to post information on so a classic classic example is huffington post it is it is a platform set up for third parties to post content the digital minute millennium copyright act protects huffington post because they have they have done a number of things required under the dmc age to be protected the main one is they registered an agent with the united states copyright office to handle take down notices from copyright holders so although i haven't although i haven't seen it exactly i'm honored percent certain that the huffington post dot com website has its place on it that lists they're copyright policy along with the name address telephone number email anywhere any any any way you wanna get a hold of them their aging is register with usa copyright office there's there's some other less obvious things they need to do but that's the main one these other ones are that they can't be involved in any way a service broader cannot be involved in any way in editing selecting designing thee copyrighted material so if they have their hands and things by selecting some images and not selecting or selecting some content and not selecting other content cropping images a you know a copying some content and someone when submitted to use for something else then they're no longer protected as long as they stay in this very narrow narrow range or just description of what the dmc a defined as a service broader they're not liable for infringement and this is this is eight it's an ongoing debate in a company other companies that you might not necessarily consider service where china becomes and class of out of service provider absolutely an end there along with their use of the dmc eight is is a distant second but it's it's very clear second in terms of a when i hear more most often they end there are just because someone claims there a surface water and just because someone has eight a eight registered registered agent with the with the copyright office as well is posted on on their website does not mean that qualifies deserves rider service roger has to fit you know half the size like all these other requirements through the main ones i described you can't in in you know kind of layman's terms you just you cannot have a hand in in what the content looks like in what it what it contains how long ago was this act put into place i'm not i it's it's been within twenty years okay so it was a response to the law volved cover law vol's just like any other kind of how it evolved because of technological changes in you know i i'm i'm speculating but i i would i would guess that some attorneys and some photographers and some a intellectual property rights holders made a case you know made a major case or cases you know before the dmc awas in enacted that that these companies riley new copyright act and you know laws are typically the result of judges kind of going that direction a constituency complaining to their conclusion is representatives that that or businesses this is complaining to their representatives that this is unfair and in this case of them say is completely appropriate in my opinion with somebody like facebook instagram like the become a service provider therefore and be able to avoid all these issues of infringement in copyright and then i'll follow that up with that they would yeah they will they are yeah yeah end but a you know just we're gonna limit discussion to the the big ones you know instagram facebook entrust you know they're the they're the major ones that technically they qualify service riders there but with with those companies and their other companies that fit the same description there's there's so much more going on with with their platform a you know at least from my perspective instagram pendergrast a facebook are the same as napster you know they they they they provide this platform that all but well it is not all but it permits v v permissive infringement of ltd just photographs in this case because it's primarily photographs and in those cases but end to potentially oversimplified situation they throw their hands up there like well all we're doing is creating this platform just like mastered it all we're doing is creating a platform where you can't control where people do they want it if you know if they if they don't do the due diligence and figure out whether or not they can download this music or a blow this person's photographed it's not a responsibility we've complied end in this case the law is slowly but surely moving against it's them in that they're like any like any case of negligence which is a very very broad general legal term in ending that negligence case you have to and i'm an end this is summarizing quite a bit but it's negligence if you don't keep up with the market standard and the end the industry standard if there is for example if there is software or hardware or anything that allows a company like instagram or or pitchers her face boat to do more than what they're currently doing create some kind of system that flags flags potentially copyright copyrighted material they're responsible for installing and using it now to is a great example of a company that does that you know to do a lot of people's a lot of people's 'em dislike there there is there i don't know what they used but but offers stories from my clients as well as their parties youtuber is remarkably quick and identifying potentially copyrighted material and flagging instagram and facebook adventurous do no such thing and speaking just of my clients those three companies are are responsible for ninety five percent of the headaches that my clients my clients it's got because if the universe there once you're image gets copied and disseminated insecure in on instagram or pen dress you might as well just any value to that photograph goodbye hits shared as it can be shared his lean times all over the place electric throwing him out the window seller the end of this because this is clearly something we really wanna talk about you and you kind of walk us through then you know how this uploading it emitted into effect copyright you'd have to say how does it benefit you how does it benefit them and anyone else out there in how do we protect oreos is writing the current environment is is a double edged sword for photographers i mean it absolutely is the best and the worst of both worlds a there there is no way that they had photographer can can prevent the dissemination of his or her work period no watermark no no no kind of you know kind of mad at her anything you can you can you know embed a bad year photograph wealth is going to prevent someone from copying it they upside to that is that that might very well in the big picture be a positive thing the downside of that is that for the general public photographs are are valueless i mean there there's so many of them and they're so easy and it's so effort less the copy them that that the value is is next nothing now we all know that's not true because there is a market you know there is a very active market for a commercial photography in in commercials however still still are able to make a living and a but outside of outside of that market instagram interest in facebook's serve as these super highways of infringement where there is little to no barrier to individuals companies a anyone they're just just going out and going out in taking taking copyrighted work end and then just the universe just expands you know they they be universal that photograph expand just exponentially and once that happens there's no there's no bringing it back and i i would venture i would venture to guess that let's say let's let's choose instrument or injury i'm just because they their prime are primarily early hey a platform for photography i would venture to guess that that ninety percent of the images that are copied in posted on instagram are copyrighted material just plain and simple now they might not be actionable you know because they you know what a non commercial photographer who has a very small network on instagram you know you might wonder friends the copy a the photographs you might want everyone in your group to to make copies and you know add add you know funny faces do whatever but everywhere everywhere else photographs of celebrities and news events a you know everything they any photograph of of any kind of significance i would venture to guess that ninety percent of those photographs litter being disseminated are violating some of these copyright and not only violating it but there's no credit there is no link there is no evidence that that there is a copyright holder at all so want someone wants one entity makes the decision to do that then everyone else has this implicit understanding that it's okay to do it is a hole in a raft right there it's like it and so you know we the vast majority of my clients independently have have communicated mean the the the current problem with those three platforms geos host on instagram i do i do i have such a small network no fees no thought i you know i think i take it seriously and i you know as everyone should take take it seriously composing my photographs and making sure you know making sure that that you know i i have they a manageable group but i certainly don't copy imposed photographs are mind you know i haven't i haven't taken right and you know i'll i'll give you i'll give you eighty eighty very real life example of how how instagram is singlehandedly destroying photographers livelihood slowed so i i have a couple of couple of clients a that are you know otherwise otherwise described as 'paparazzi they deliver new york their businesses to supply certain clients with photographs of certain people at certain times that's the way it is there's a huge market for it a they they performed is very very valuable role a you know they're people love to hate them but they they're they only they only reason they're in existence is because there's a demand for it there's overwhelming demand for their work and they're really really good photographers for example i've had cases is where aid client takes a photograph a uploaded to his stock agencies server never been disseminated to the public never been published end someone breaks into the server steals the photograph and disseminates it on on instagram to different fan sites end these examples the fact pattern of my cases are that that once it gets disseminated a it's a high quality photograph if someone is in the news then inevitably it ends up in the possession of the person who is the subject of the photograph so it goes from fans sites they might have might have a hundred followers are thousand followers to to the the subject hemmer herself that has millions of of followers once that happens the value of that photograph is zero permanently so all of the all of the would be value a potential value of that photograph is gone and will never be recovered and less extreme example is a the photograph is published one place it's published in a regular client by ray you know traditional means it goes their their agency they have an agreement with the supply all their work to that agency farmed out to some publication that publishes the work there have been instances where people literally either screen shot the v a the publications website or actually screen shot the actual physical magazine or or newspaper then put it online no credit no no link no anything an important thing to remember is once once it gets gets into that territory everybody else thinks that it's okay to copy everybody else thinks it's well it doesn't it's not credited there is no link end it's it's on this is on this individuals website that has millions of followers in and an occupies a pretty a pretty good spot you know in the in the public in the public view why why would it not be okay for me to copy it i'm just i'm just a now small in all these people have since picked up on it and made use of it are they liable in any way or they just free and clear it'd be technically yes copyright infringement of strict liability so if you copy if you copy that you don't even have to use it if you make a copy without proper license or permission you violated the copyright regardless of how many generations go absolutely not being absolutely okay i've got a lot of guilty people out there yes and now the vast vast majority of these cases are not viable sure 'em just just because i mean for for numerous reasons but in this happens the dynamic the the but you just you just explain happens all the time with big companies big companies are second or third or fourth their tenth down the road and they're like how are we supposed to know happens all the time and that's that's just simply not a defense and of but just a jump back a little bit let's say for a photographer more less herself who small following an instagram but history and conserve us a little bit because we could get a workout there until early bounce back whether it just be back row small job or whatnot instagram in i guess facebook owns instagram so they don't own anything they're just they're claiming they're just a service provider right so they don't have any copyrighted they don't want anything on this 'em it really it comes down to us whether we went on a play the game right whether we wanna have the double edged sword in her back where we may get a benefit out of it but ultimately if something happens we may not have the photo loses value that's that's kind of where adam is that we're all complicit then right because were were willing to play this this game and in where will the stopping point be i mean and i'm gonna jump on what jason just ask me is it gonna be technological thing is gonna be a money thing i mean if you to do it why ken instagram you know find an algorithm to stop this yeah it in that i mean that that's the question the question is were were we're certainly not at a point where everyone feels comfortable and everyone feels inherently uncomfortable now everybody does the photographers do instagram does all of you know the third parties that kind of weighed in everyone feels uncomfortable because were not in a place where everyone understands and everyone considers fair images are remarkably easy to detect act online for example solution might very well be instagram to develop some kind of system where they create a database of images that the people a flag authors of flag and that has permanently on this list from that point on it's permanently on a list where it needs to be double you know it needs to be cross jacked any any incoming a information needs would be cross just against that database or a you know placing a small amount of responsibility on thee artist of the photographer to supply a company like instagram with low rez versions of all eat all the photographs that are there copyright and then they they don't want they don't want disseminated on instagram those struck me is very easy low costs allusions to they would solve the vast majority of the i mean i i suppose it it it impacts commercial divers the most you'd have to do a little bit of work you have to do a little bit of work developing released editing you know your top ten percent of photographs that you absolutely positively do not want to be copied and disseminated but there would be no stopping you know amateur photographers from doing the same thing you want invest a little bit of time than it would effectively shift the burden to instagram to that that would now be in possession of that information and their technology to detect it it would change the balance of of the way things are right now for the better so now how many pictures a day off hand do you know with instagram posts on average days you have a number in mind i have no say millions of illegal millions okay now there are a number of organizations were companies would have been mccollum i wanna be i think it's photo rights where i belong within a you send them for x amount of dollars you you register you're photographs and they basically keep an eye out in a few weeks ago report hey we found listen quite often stuff i post years ago they're still ashley digging up there and acknowledging exist should exist now you take that same technology hand you have instagram user they have a lot of work they go into every single day and then they have the first verify no a lot of this could be automated ultimately somebody has to sit there and look in an end decide yes or no do we pursue this which alone would be a huge expense is that one of the reasons is why they don't wanna bother with it i you know i don't know i mean i i i don't know but i i would venture to guess that you know they're gonna they're gonna get away or at least try to get away with the least possible the least possible involvement you know i but i but i do think i do think the time is going to come and they'll the law the consensus is moving in the direction where they're going to be required to do more we would it be fair to say that it's actually a better idea of them right now for no reason not to employ these technologies because once you do it you're accepting responsibility ride right now it's dylan nebulous thing in this is going back to the industry standard for for negligence that's why it's so complicated sometimes so what's the industry standard i mean industry standard for i mean the classic example in law school is you know a shipping company that that you know is thirty years behind the time and navigational clement and you know has a huge tanker run aground there negligent because everybody else is employing this advanced navigational system this cheap easy and works really well if you don't do that then you're in negligence territory and i think were slowly but surely those companies are moving into that territory where all these other companies can do it all these other companies can like image rights and i i happen to work with pixie a who's in is another a a company that does eight a terrific service for photographers a in their interfaces sophisticated an easy to use and user friendly and kind of puts the onus on the photographer to kind of pick and choose which things they think are viable or not it's not complicated and if if instagram refuses or facebook or or pitchers refuses to engage age in that type of technology you know voluntarily there eventually gonna be forced to do it i mean jump in real quick just because you know we're running a lot longer than i thought and there's a ton of stuff i think we all like ask but i sixty yes we don't answer maybe you could just throw out maybe a quick a checklist that we can have our listeners you know joy listen to what they should do a to protect himself and maybe just best practices you know when he puts click and then their there are there are two things in there to things that are that are just just proportionally worth every photographers time the the first one is a timely register all of your photographs and that is that is they number v v most efficient best thing you can do if your commercial photographer or you're you are you are concerned about v infringement of you're work timely registering your work is is an absolute necessity and their number ways you've been you've been accomplished the copyright statute the main easiest one is you you register at a within three months of first publication that's it's easiest way to do it a kind of the backside of it is you can register work within one month of infringement so it's a little trickier because you have no win infringement took place on there's no there's governor work has been published mickey just register an image you took that hasn't been published in absolutely yeah yeah so that's i mean if you if you register work cryer publication it's automatically registered a sense that the best way to do it put an end the my clients who are the best at tommy registering her work register their work in groups every three months so you cannot lose now there's another thing i like about fifty something dollars for up to seven hundred and fifty images of something that it's not expensive it's not expensive i i thought it was thirty five and might be i think thirty five he might be yes remarkably inexpensive and now they although they reduced the number of images that you can register as a group i believe it's still in the neighborhood it's a couple of hundred i think it might even be as high as seven fifty it's well well one of the trauma that first cherry pick you ain't don't just take your doctor i don't download you upload your card credit you remember i hard and go all of it end the coverage that she has a giant fork in the road so one side is actual damages any other side of statutory damages actual damages for images that are not time you register statutory damages over time they registered images if infringement is determined to be willful on the on be the part of infringe her then you're eligible for up to a hundred fifty thousand dollars per incident so those were really big numbers that come with very little offer ends speaking as a plaintiff's attorney option of litigating statutory damages and fees by the way that come with it were in completely different territory then actual damages the actual damages you're limited to proving with with no level of speculation a while you're actual damages are so the generals of earning a living in photography's depending on stuff there well in advance and hoping you get ripped off there's two so is the only one is 'em in this is by clients have been have like a very wide range of of views on the subject they're better a in a in a concerns you know attaching you're copywriter watermark the damage lots of divers don't like to do that because it it it changes in a what i found is what what what is kind of a happy medium is including of including a watermark but one that is very very faint it's there it's obvious it's not in the corner a you know it's either diagonal or across that is so light and is you know is that ten percent or twenty percent a that you do need image can't be exploited without someone noticing it and it's very difficult to remove a it's the only problem with putting a cutter i notice in a corner is that it can be easily crop out and that happens all the time all the time so those two things there other things you can do but those two things if you're going to pick and choose the what's the most efficient those two things dwarf and everything else then what's the value of writing copyright and you you made a data is rainy value that at all there is a the value is a yes there is existing met at a whiff a copyright properly accredited a you get these assumption that assumption is not the right word but the burden chefs concerning wilfulness gotcha so if it's there and it's easily accessible and it says clearly copyright whomever than the burden shifts to fend in an infringement to prove that they infringement was not willful otherwise otherwise it remains but the point of gotcha i think i mean like i said there's a lot we could talk about it afterwards i'm a quick question when he shooting right now not all i see i see it a lot with my phone again five years ago i would never ever committed that but i shoot a lot with my phone while you're not alone recordings that topic along with my for but i still have a form of and i i still have a raleigh i but i just i just i don't utilizing yeah i don't utilize porches my kids will learn more by five they all right well there you go yeah yeah so what kind of digital back avenue for by five alone and i lied to the four oh five fly out okay it when you get i mean i shot i tried digital slides for like fifteen years and you know i i got hired specifically because i shot that way and then that went away but there is a long period of time where where i got hired because i shot for by five slides because they look different gorgeous yeah we get it right you get a ride edits and it just like you cannot believe they're gonna look that good yeah a but even black and white to is there is there kind of clear moment when a photographer should reach out to a lawyer and should kind of pursuer case i mean is it about the size of the infringe you're the company then infringes is it about how much you could make it about unless you wanna make a stand of course you know is there yeah i mean it's i i feel calls from all different types of people in a and there's really no there's no really i mean i would say every case is worth pursuing at is off a letter absolutely absolutely and i and i make that clear to a lot of clients do that you know these cases they're not you know they might not be huge and they might not be you know you're the first thing i explained my clients is that even even upper end of my clients were not talking about a windfall you know it just things like that they they don't exist like there i i've had plenty of cases i've i've had plenty of very good results but a photographer who is not a burst in the process ss is under the impression that all they have to do is catch somebody using her work and they're they're gonna end it just doesn't exist that way it doesn't exist that way our so many reasons end but that being said their cases even small scale they're worth pursuing even at a at a very low level and even if you never planned litigate there at the base level they serve a purpose to put that it's another brand new day that's right and you're not gonna you're not gonna just it's kind of roll over and you generally implied that you feel that you know where we are on a path moving forward where photographers will be more protected images will have a little bit more protection and and you won't we won't see kind of this is wild west of a infringement that we are seeing or had been seeing the seniors to feel that were generally moving that way i do early i mean it it it it's difficult because a you know use my i use my children as an example there universe in their perspective is completely different for mars in that they have never had a sense of ownership in specifically the photographs i mean it just it's different they don't treat them the same way they treat them as they treat them as you know a just these interchangeable parts that a deck in that are meant to be shared a and that that that inherently is difficult to square wes these other end of the spectrum where these legitimate extremely talented a you know a longtime commercial photographers are fighting on the same the same battlefield a so it's difficult but it it the the copyright laws favor photographers as you don't get that judge janine yeah yeah that's so well after the case will as a comebacker will do skype or something like that maybe possibly david it's been it's been quite informative a week becoming what's territory now even i think we expected to end got more information and we thought we'd see and it's a big subject to say the least of people wanna see a check out your website at were maybe look at you photographs a where should they be going my my firm website is david deal dot com and it's all one word it's deity idee d e l dot com okay all right and again it's extremely well yeah you're making you're come private i mean in in this illegal and i don't know my my my network is so small that it probably doesn't make a difference are angry dave terrific thank you so much for joining us today a studio a if you're not a subscriber to the being h photography podcast you're time has come all you have to do is head over to apple podcasts google podcasts stitcher overcast or spotify

david deal founder attorney katie virginia russell brammer united states mr bremmer washington alan white charlottesville ninety percent twenty years forty years eighteen hundred dollars fifteen twenty years ninety five percent eighteen months
Food Photography and Food Styling

B&H Photography Podcast

1:05:05 hr | 1 year ago

Food Photography and Food Styling

"You're listening to the beach. Photography podcast for over forty years being H has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favorite gear news and reviews visit US H. dot com or download the beach APP to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan White's greetings and welcome to the beat nature. Photography podcast Chelsea. Kyle is a food retarded and former staff photographer. Conde NAST will her work with regularly appear in Bon APETITE epicurious magazines and websites as of late. She's working through. Hello Artists Agency. And you can see her work. Featuring pop sugar and time out magazine. Drew actually took a path through social to working in restaurants and as a pastry cook before jumping into food styling full-time I is in assistant in Seattle in La and then on his own in New York. His clients include foods fifty two bono. Not Greatest Coffee Hellofresh Lacroix Pinera and Carnival cruises. Now here's the whammy line folks. They are a couple in real life. Chelsea Andrew are engaged to be married but whether working together with other colleagues it takes the talent and hard work of both of food stylist and photographer to make food photography. Come to life today. We're GONNA talk about both of their professions and of course how they collaborate and complement each other. Welcome Chelsea welcome drew. I think you do. So even though they're separated by different rooms. We'RE NOT GONNA get into why but that anyway other than camera and Lens for Chelsea. What's your most important tool as food? Photographer has a such a tough one. And I have quite a few that I like but I'd have to say my favorite would be capture one which is a digital tool but is absolutely crucial might work especially with. Silas working in tandem onset it allows us to both be following along in tethering the camera. It's it's very important but if I had to choose a second I would probably say a cartolini especially as of late while we're shooting at home with minimal just the two of us about the State Minimum Crew. But it's literally now grow it's just us and that's. Cartolini has just been like an extra hand where you need it. And No. They weren't could you explain? Yeah I mean I think I had about two weeks ago. We went to. This restaurant was really lovely. I couldn't find online number. What is that? I hope I'm pronouncing it right. It's it's more advanced than a clamp because of its ability to like stand the jaw of it catches to your traditional C. Stand or any working light. Stand a grip tool that makes you life very easy. Where could try and say yeah? What do you claim within pretty much anything? Okay there I would say the most at primary use that I've had it for in. The past is is rigging up a surface. So it allows you to clamp down onto a surface in. Hold it up ray or at an angle it. It's very versatile in how it allows you to prop up sets but it also is useful for for example if we have to have a glass being held into frame at a certain way you can. You can actually Clampett to clamp glass scenario. You can put a four canary play It's it's pretty versatile Andrew. Same question to you. What is your key tools that you're using on you. It's different for every job but I retain my my favorites are a mini offset spatula Kind of looks. Like a about the size of a paring knife but is used traditionally in restaurants with pastry but for smoothing out cakes or lifting things. But it can come in handy with moving things I've said and If you're frying something or cooking something that helps with flipping But also I really love oxo. Squeezy pours their silicone liquid measuring cups. Come in handy and a lot of different ways not trying to do an ad for oxo or anything but I do love their product And think lasted Mitch. Kind of crazy to me that not more people. Use this plastic bench scrapes. They're helpful was like cleaning upsets or cleaning up cutting board lifting a bunch of stuff into a pan and and things like that. And Are you assume that when you're on set you're constantly readjusting and and touching not touching the right word but You know redesigning what your. What's about to be photographed? Is it or finish it in? That's that no it's definitely what you said I Rueda's dining touching sometimes replating or even remaking the food if it's just not reading in the right way for what we need it for their. What I was envisioning is different from. What the client was asking. Yes always playing with the food and do you. Are you cooking most of the food? Or how does that work? That's something I was really curious about like what what's the relationship you have with. And we're not talking about now and it's just you know Kaiser in your own Blazin in quarantine but in general. Do you work with regular chefs? Or How's that work? Yeah no good question We are sourcing buying Following to be making everything for sad for the photo shoots The industry has definitely changed in different before I got involved with it. Where a lot in the years ago food styling was more so using fake food and setting that up because it had to set for a lot longer with before digital but now digital were making Making everything that you see on everything that we've done together or on you know any normal I It'll be the food stylus then an assistant or two. That are preparing and making everything. You are a chef as well basically. Yes yeah yeah to add to that. I think it's a big misconception. That a lot of people don't know that should stylists primarily are not only responsible for making recipes perfectly but then also having the foresight to make adjustments for visual purposes? So there's a lot of times where having to undercooked something makes it look better having a different ingredient that might ads you the visual aesthetic of the image but not in any way like make the recipe. Not y'all taste is another thing I mean. Sometimes you just leave ingredients out if it doesn't actually look it doesn't need to be there for the visual purposes but yeah and also. I HAVE TO GIVE MORE CREDIT. He said we. I do not cook anything I set off. I will be like helping your near. Maybe but my role in that is more of a director role where. I'm kind of directing the visual. Look of the food but I very rarely involved in in the food side of things going off of that too off of the previous question. Half of my job on average I would say is sourcing and Grocery shopping and a lot of that is contacting If needed farms throughout the US and sourcing things from them that may not be in season in New York but are needed and from going around two grocery stores in New York and knowing who has what generally and making sure that for each shot each type of produce and type of Need is being met for that recipe. Which I I think that that also sets apart food style from maybe different where you know if I'm cooking for the two of us for dinner and we're not shooting it. I'm not going to be as concerned about getting everything perfectly and I'm going to be making substitutions if we don't have something or if I don't want to you know run to a store for one ingredients specifically but that food styling I'm running to six different stores for one ingredient each because that's what the recipe needs and that's what the photo needs to look appropriate and to look at the best and do how many folks that you know colleagues of yours and food. Silas come out of the restaurant world or you know or come out of the photography world as host. Yeah I it's interesting. I'd say half and half they're definitely food style to have gone into photo school Or Art School I. They're also you know the other half that went to culinary school and definitely van Diagram where there's a middle ground. You're there are some people who went to culinary school and to photo school so I wanna jump back a bit to talk about. Maybe a typical job and You know who who would be hired. I the stylist. And and what comes to you already do you know is the editor saying to you. Okay this is the the recipe we're GONNA use or this is what we want to show Take it from there Or talk a little bit about the process and then also maybe Chelsea you can chime minutes to win the photographer steps in from what I've heard. They might that Clientele Awesome Kinda photographer and ask what stylist the photographer works with. Or we'll ask for a list of stylist that they can from the photographer that they can go over. And maybe choose a couple to pursue for the job as a photographer then tells you you have to kind of be aware of different styles. That are out there working in what their specialty is. Whether it's going to be something sweet or beverage or you know or Thanksgiving meal and then you kind of give them a call or ask your agency to give them a call. Yeah I would say that it is Georgie of stylists that. No that that all encompassing knowledge that they can do just about everything I do. There are stylists. You have areas of sailing that they're better at and I think that there are times that that is the reason why I may not have chosen a food stylus because if a food publication is during a whole thing on cakes and they're all these very elaborate cakes there's GonNa be a food silas out. There that has a stronger skill. Set when it comes to bait goods and assembly of cakes like piping and frosting and things like that A general knowledge is expected for most foods More than general. They need to be good at it. But the narrow people who're Step further than that and those people are called on by editors. They're called by US. I I definitely. I know a lot about the various stylus in New York and can tell you you know this person's better doing that especially with my job when I was fulltime at high not since I was a photo editor photographer producer of most of these shoot so I was sourcing promising food silence based on that but also based on like if it was just general recipes availability nervy to work with me. Personally that's really important in especially as fast paced. Work it you you get to know who who can handle certain things better and it kind of just becomes a decision based on that but you at that point. You're more or less the boss. If you WANNA use that phrase or do you guys become partners and and make the decisions fifty fifty or is is your name this going to be on the the final product. I don't want to say that I'm the boss. I serve it definitely. If you're on set in the decision comes down to a visual aesthetic choice. It is a photographer that gets the last call or the director of the clients. Yeah I I agree with that ultimately as well Photographer is even say boss. But they are probably higher up on the food chain and Have more direction if if something isn't looking well they'll they'll be times when the photographers like go. Can the speakers made or can we move things like that that may not Be Seen but you know it is it is a lot of collaboration between Sotogrande for food. Sows prop stylist. And I think in the perfect job you know everyone is complementing each other instead of having a hierarchy of the what the photographer says is I imagine. It's different in every set with every personality for other than the food itself. Are you of responsible for you? Know the the props and in the setting itself The colors that are chosen or is that something that usually comes either through the client or the photographer in a pre teen world. The decisions like that are coming from the client to the prop stylist so for example if a client of thing they want a specific color for a a dish the become the conversation between client maybe the developer or the recipe and food south and prop stylist. And you know what I would chime in. There is saying a normal spaghetti dish would be served on this or it would be on a platter like this if we wanted it to be on a platter and then it prop stylus would bring different serving dishes and plates depending on how it was going to be shot if it was one more heroic full family style serving or if it was individual plated versions and not not every job as wanting it to be you know in the most the food to be in the most traditional serve sense but the props are determined more so by client than than prop stylist than food. Style in how many people would be and again of course. His Pre pre quarantine. And let's say in standard shooter or medium-sized. Shoot how many people are going to be unsaid on a smaller job. There is a prop stylist and assistant a fruit salad and assistant a photographer and the system and then Couple of clients and maybe a recipe writer or recipe. Tester developer on. So I think the the smallest jobs have correct me if I'm wrong Chelsea but you know five six eight people on the small side. Yeah I definitely think. The the number of crew within those lead roles increases based on the concepts the shortlist how involved it is With the with everything that you have onset is. There are times where were on. Multiple days shoots and an assistant. An additional assistant is needed for one of those people because there are physically going out and getting food. Silence needs new ingredients that are recently added or or like you had to revise something in real time and they need to be like doing that. But it's those roles that's pretty typical that even more so for example a cookbook when you can't have a couple practices at the start of the job when a cookbook is anywhere from three days to six weeks of shooting you're going to have to have prepped. Is Mixed in between there and have assistance running out and and prepping different ingredients so that everything is staying fresh. Will you create you? Cook something a few days in advance and is kind of standard to do a few test runs on something before it's ready to shoot. Yeah with some recipes definitely if part of my job and one of the biggest things I like about it as. I'm always trying to cook recipes that I've never made before if it's just for dinner or just testing them out so that if a job were to ever come up about some type of food. I would have some knowledge of how it's made. If a job came up and I I didn't know what it was. There's generally time to wrap it in advance and to make test runner to So Yeah it's definitely. A part of the job is familiar with that and as for the other part of that question depending on the recipe. You know it's up to the food style it's up to me. I think that I can make something the day before. And it will be okay to be shot the next day for example. They're like a super a chilly. Those are good examples of things that can be made the day before and look similar the following day. And we'll save a lot of time if it's Something that a soup cooked for four hours or a roast. You can cook it for a majority of the time of the day before and then finish it off the next day as well. I have a question. It's time related and that has to do with the fact that going through your portfolio's online you websites. There's a lot of motion that's been introduced in in both of your sights With things moving around not quite video but little things. Moving around almost animation like Is that something you did on your own or is it something that was done by assignment? And is it something you want to do? More of because some of the stuff kind of fun. Yeah I would say it's a little. It's a mix of those. I have a ton of work myself like that because I am very interested in motion within food in kind of adding that that nother another element to the image that keeps you engaged in a little bit more dynamic than just like a sitting glass by itself That is definitely something that I have used in the past as a way to kind of put my personal touch on image that otherwise would just be a basic recipe photo. I've also been asked from clients to do that specific. Look I think that there's a lot of like cocktail companies that really enjoy having dynamic images like that of of different cocktails of drinks things that move But yeah it. It's definitely a little bit of. Are You doing stop action? Or how moving stuff around done in computer camera camera. The it's all not in cameras in like it's not the cameras not putting stitching it together for me. I am doing stop motion. And then a like compiling those images in post through a variety of difference offers depending on the specific type of image in speed. And all of that. But that is all stills whose specific question about Isis is just looking at your website also. How hard is it to one the way you wanted to look through and the photograph it the way he liked Chelsea. That's a really big concern with any job having I send him something. But I've talked with other foods south about and How it's it's always a stressful job. When a lot of ice needs to be sourced are it depends a lot on the budget really because you can spend a lot of money on perfectly Cubed clear ice block spot from different places in New York you can spend a lot of money on tape that's sold that prop shops in New York There's also a lot of really cheap ice and Chelsea and I will always pointed out when we see an advertisement and we can tell that it's fake. I speaking us. 'cause it's not part of our world but There's everything in between you know the cheapest you can buy on Amazon and some shots he can tell sometimes you can't but because a lot of variety. How much time is there where you know? I mean when food is just out of the oven or drink has just made is there? That goes into a time. Yeah Yeah it's small depends on this specific recipe In what like you're just said if it is a fake ice or if it has real I mean the ideal ice is the real fancy ice. We just call it. Fancy is industry. But it's stuff that you buy from. The store is that are the manufacturers that I think what they're doing is getting the water to a boiling point so that when it freezes. It's perfectly clear and have mold set. You can't find a specific bowl makes it perfect one inch square and Of course because it's New York City you can find that And it is not cheap but that is ideal. And it's it's very reuse standings a lot especially with drinks like you said the stuff coming out of the oven if if there's a small window like for example. A souffle has mere seconds. If they're lucky that it's going to stay huffed up before it starts to deflate in not beautiful so alighting is perfect. We've already you know Put the the specific dish that was being used or at least something its size onset. Use a little markers that like these little set cubes. That essentially the food silence can know exactly where to put the plate back when they're running from the oven so that everything is in place in radio as it's hot in looks the best and is there a lot of kind of hurry up and wait for the photographer. You mean you get everything. Set up the lights already and then you just wait for the food to be really absolutely my set entirely revolves around the food so my I might be if I'm not prepared for when that dishes ready than Chiasso an entire set is revolving around efficiently managing time with the Food Stylus Sir. That were guides as sometimes allow for a lot of sitting around and waiting for the food. You ready if you can't really do anything in between those those moments because you have to have everything set up perfectly ready to go so it definitely happens when Lou question I have a You guys mentioned that you could tell it. Doing in real and fake is what about fake? Steen can usually pick up steam. That was added after the fact a good question. I don't there there a couple of different ways that I know of capturing steamer adding in familiar with how the ad within imposed but I would say generally no I can see it mostly when it's been photo shopped but if it's like a steamer instead of like the actual hot yeah into the shot itself somebody from behind came up little steamer some if you can usually tell that apart. I think there's definitely like a a type of steam that you're looking for when you're on sat creating it in real life and like you know there's a million different steamers and the way they like let out. Steam can definitely be different. I think that's more of a prop Silas thing accu. You're thinking about that. The qualities of steam coming these steamers in. That's kind of scary kind of funny actually. There's a trick. This is a food style trick. I've seen happened a couple of times. Actually if you get few heat up a hot in his as gross at knock gross. Actually I shouldn't say that because women's products are not gross. If you heat up a Tampon that's wet. It will steam better than most things. I gotTA keep that in mind. You keep it in your style in their kids will have Backup Tampon just case. Just as a useful knowledge to ask me way for the second half of the show. But so you're you're saying earlier. That you tethered when you're shooting so in addition to the client and the stylist and everybody. I guess is onset is taking a look at what you shoot but after you know after you've done a shot or two or you feel you're satisfied Chelsea everyone does take a look and Drew what might you say for example in a moment like that? What are you looking at? Yeah there's a lot to be looking at him I would say generally I'm looking at how the light is affecting the food if there are any on a sandwich for example if there's any kind of super dark spots at the food either needs to be pushed up or something needs to be added to that spot on the sandwich so it doesn't look as empty looking act making sure all the food fresh especially if there are herbs or Greens. If part of the food isn't Starting to Brown in a certain spot or if it has sat on too long and has started to will earn needs to be replaced or if overall if the food has sat out too long and the whole dish needs to be replanted monitoring. How quickly food dyes and How IT CHANGES AFTER. Tha Tout especially under light man. Same question to you. What's your primary concerns when you're looking at something after Sharon before? Yeah I would agree with you. It's definitely combination of looking at the food the lighting. I think some of the best food stylists that I've worked with understand light in in the same way that they are generally pleading knowing what direction the light is is going to be hitting certain things because of course if you have like a cascading array of something like for example if you think of like a chicken patty cut up and then you fan it out. If it's facing away that the lighter white inside of it is too bright it looks really jarring and weird and things that like you kind of work in tandem with knowing that but I definitely look to my food. Silence a lot to notify me when things are not up to their liking for how specific food is supposed to be. Presented is is arranged in things like that. Of course I'm making decisions based on composition where the is entering the frame. Why is this getting that way or like? Is this glass shadow affecting that corner like Thursday? I'm focused on visually that. Sometimes I'll miss an important food aspect that needs to be present for illustrative purposes of the rest here or whatnot. So it really is. It's it's a team effort and it's a lot of cloud ration- okay we can take a short break and we come back and talk more about food. Photography food styling Doing Zoom presentations photography And all kinds of other exciting things with and Chelsea stay tuned. We hope you're enjoying this edition of the being H. Photography podcast the best way to support the show is by subscribing on Apple. Podcasts Google podcasts. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for links to gear and more information on today's guests check out the show notes in your podcast APP or visit our home page on the beach explorer website and joined the B. N. H. Photography podcast facebook group. And now back to the show okay. We are back up question. I want to talk about Gear and technique here in little tricks of the trade something. I've been curious about. I I know that. For the longest time Food Pataki or studio photography general with two different camps there was a flash electronic flash and there were hot lights usually tungsten and they recalled hot lights for reason. And if you shooting food you had to work real fast. Now we have. Led's which kind of a hybrid. You can't freeze action like you do it with strobe but you have continuous daylight. That's not hot. Which gives you a little more leeway things like ice cream and other cold products And other things that heat would make them look weird in a matter of time are you using. Led lights more in you work or are there particular problems with led's what's the story of lighting and food photography these days so I'm primarily using disturbs I I definitely think that the studio that you're in and the amount of equipment needed it it various but for me personally I am always using strobes. I am very much a control. Freak in that since where. I don't like to rely on natural light because of the fact that it is food. Photography silly are moving quickly. There are things that have all windows of time in which are presentable and look their best in. I WANNA be one hundred percent prepared for that moment so I primarily used Serbs In control of that I do think there is still an aspect of the modeling late features that has affected food in the past for. I'm having to turn that off If things are quickly melting I know there are studios that are designed so that they are cold and they have crazy air conditioning. So that the set can go on with with with ice cream and things like that and they're just basically working at a giant refrigerator all day But Yeah I don't use too much continuous light. I have played around with it for gift purposes in kind of what we were talking about before with these these stop motion images. Where if I need to get more frames per second and by Serbs can't quite keep up I'll use a combination of continuous but even still now the the latest technology with Depri- Does and all that like I can I can easily be shooting Roz the five s and have strokes and be firing ten frames. Second it's pretty wild. So I'm I'm very rarely using continuously. Okay and you mentioned that. It's the five using the Canon system. And what what are your Lens. Choice's generally and and. How often do they change based on the job or do you kind of stick with you like I? Typically use an eighty five Had No meter. That's my number one. Go to use the one hundred backer. A lot because of different foods Steph Obviously that that lends itself to having to do a lot of focus stacking sometimes because damages really dictate which which system you're using. I think that the biggest reason I choose. He's prime. Lenses is because when we do use a twenty four to seventy associated for shooting top down so your overhead. I have amount of focus stand. That might be six seven feet high and even then sometimes because of the set like you can't physically get far enough away so that that's the only time that I would start to use a more wider angle. But of course when you're looking at a plate or something overhead glassware it starts to distort quickly with the wider angle lenses. So you have a use tilt shift lenses for your food photography. 'cause you're talking about distortions and when you close with wider angle these things happen and they can be controlled Do you ever use them? Yeah I have experimented around with them. I I really love the cannon Tilt shift lenses. They're they're great. They still like even though we're in digital and we have so much more like. I guess time I still find that with the speed of how things are going on said. I don't have as much time to play around with. Tilt shifts interesting okay. So it's actually more efficient few do all of these little correction stuff post than in the camera. Okay you mentioned this idea of having the food look like food and you know not being distorted Is that absolutely crucial in the word or is there kind of wiggle room for for having fun and then stretching things out and making things look a little bit goofy heading it depends on the client and project for sure? I mean I know that's kind of the Boring Answer. But it really if you're shooting for a food. Publication is showing recipe's. They don't want this far out and crazy in the sense that like you wouldn't want eat it and makes that food so the primary goal of that image is to make it look delicious and make sure that the viewer wants to run home and by all those ingredients and that that's my job is to make sure that the food looks best account obviously his job too but like the images purpose is that so. There isn't as much room for the creative. Let's do this wacky thing. Try this but I do a lot of that. Might outtakes for me personally. Like success Shooting here it was a takeout story and drew uses those sheet pans for like cookie sheet pans as his prep trains. So he's like bringing things from the kitchen set using those a lot and then he has his tools all on it and sometimes it just gets turns into this really like playful mass and I always photographing food sows Because they're so interesting and it's funny you throw glass on their of champagne in an it'd become this weird image. That makes no sense. That is usually we're living in interesting times right now and the quarantine is is affected. Everybody how has it affected your work flow in your Your Business? And how have you adapted to this? Yeah well it's been interesting Be are very fortunate because of the fact that we are a couple in. We are two of the main roles in this process so us being quarantined together gives us an advantage that were able to continue working in ways that other people are not and it is. We have just over the past month. continued to find solutions to various things. We have prop stylists who have enough of their own owned props that they're able to work in collaboration with us and kind of be virtually on dropping things off and of course it puts a lot more of the actual execution rolls on drew nigh but were were making it work were finding clients. That are being really incredible and willing to work with you know. Smaller shot count. Because they know that it. Just it's of us in a bouncing between zoom in texting photos and things like that. So how are we using zoom? If I may ask Yeah so interesting you say we have used them a couple of different ways. I recently just did a shoot for a food. Publication where the food editor had to be in the images so the equipment was sent to the food editor. I was sharing his computer remotely through zoom because they have a feature where you can physically be operating someone else's computer same way sharing Ip addresses. And I was running capture one so I was physically operating camera remotely while telling him how to move everything around and this is someone who is you know never used capture. One never had a setup like this before so we went. It was like I took all day to get shots but It worked and actually surprisingly well. It takes a lot of communication but we got through. It took me back many decades. Remember when time we thought it was amazing I had a client I was in New York and Chicag and it was a big deal that we were able to fax a four by five Polaroid to Chicago have made comments send it back and they make corrections hundreds of miles each other. So I'm listening to this and I'm just kind of laughing inside. We've come a long way really. Have my goodness think to absolutely thing is just so cool that we're able to be working on in. Take a photo and you can use zoom literally to share. I can share my screen that has capture on it. I'm not as comfortable doing that with clients because it you know. There's there's so much between tweaking that you're doing that I would want them to start commenting on something before I was ready. And so we haven't really used the feature for that much more like okay. Here's the image on exporting it to a dropbox folder. I'm texting them that folder in an I'm texting like new images in there for you as look at a number keeping going and things like that and most of the work using studios at this point. You're still working at home. Yes interesting and have you. Found things are creative solutions to problems. That you never thought you'd have before has been interesting in that way has been you know kind of fun to to to figure out what you can do at home. Absolutely it's definitely been everyday's presented a new challenge last week. We had a shoot where I had to play hand model as well as shooting So that's something I've never done before I fall. I don't think I have very first agenda. Cancer was that's something we haven't talked about but like it hands are so important and some of these feed images because you're illustrating a processor you're holding something to give it context things like that. So models are pretty big in our roles in you find out quickly who onset has the best hands usually there's a budget for a hand model And I had to do both and so I was instructing I it was I was holding something up with my wrist twisted and so I'm telling you how to focus and you know and itself wasn't having a lot of struggles finding focus and we had the pause to learn how to change the. What do you call it? Chelsea Focus Square. That's what a Non Tagro Tallet. That's pretty good. Well what does he just put some latex gloves on and be done with all that you know as the what is the timeframe generally for when you know you're shooting something to win you expect it to be published. I mean there's usually a good deal of time ahead right yes? It's a couple of weeks out for most things okay. And you were talking earlier about recipes and I'm kind of curious about that aspect of it because when you have to put like a narrative together of of how something is made and you're showing the ingredients and the steps Is at some. You'll determiner or those shots. Kinda laid off. You headed talk if we're being at there to shoot a a recipe. Normally we're told if they want a final product or if they want shop of ingredients or process shops along the way. I'd say generally with publications that having one either plaited or Cratered shot the DASHER. One shot the whole entire All eight servings together just as if you had just completed the meal sometimes they'll your stories will ask for process shots and we've added a couple of times where we'll have something and shoot it halfway through. It's done depending on the web being asked and tells you what you were mentioning the strobes. What Book Castro Zoos? Right now I have the be ten plus setup from pro photo and It is incredible. They they're great or small. They are the latest version. That can also trickle power. Which is crucial thing for? Me Is their previous models. Were you know they had location kids and you could easily set them up anywhere but the battery pack just to be able to rely on. That is is really difficult so with these latest ones. I'm able to hook them up to the wall and you keep using them all day long but also they're super versatile and and small and will you take those with you when you go to studio or when you're the studio with the have usually when ministry. I'm using the power packs and having you know a bit more of an elaborate set-up just because I get a bit more control and the power is just as easier to control in and things like that so this is definitely my pseudo location kit. But I've been super impressive. He's lights actually just got them like a couple of months before this all happened so I'm really glad with how how well it's working out so much about. You know all the other related products that something you never want to eat that are used or substituted for food in these photography and get a sense. That's kind of a thing of the past to some degree. But can you speak about that may be any any oddball things that you do use still that that mimics food or or why? We're not using these products much any longer. Yeah look a big misconception. Know Long with To the when telling someone that. I'm a food stylist big questions. Are you actually making the food? And the food taker. Not Across the board now. A days food is edible Chelsea mentioned earlier sometimes good looks better. When it's overcooked or undercooked so it's not always going to taste the best but Generally the food is is all edible. One thing example like it's going going back part of the reason why the food is. All edible now is especially for advertising campaigns. If you were selling ice cream it is illegal to use sake ice cream And now to false advertising if you're not using the actual product for what is being shot and and being advertised so if for example you are advertising a pie. It's a Thai company. And they want ice cream on top and they're not selling ice cream. You can use fake ice cream. There and generally say ice cream is what is faked the most nowadays. Now that as long as it's not an ice cream brand of course but A LOTTA STYLUS ten different techniques and mixtures of how they prefer to make fake ice cream but say that that's the biggest example that jumps out to me of what actually faked. And what about items like dripped and sauces? And things like that are they. Tend to be either the the real thing or the real thing was something added to it to give it a different viscosity or texture. Exactly most times. It's it's the real thing but there are different tricks to thickened food to thin it out to make it still same color and read the same on camera that are is going to be able to be manipulated in different ways hung and also doing a lot of camps We've had Chelsea and I've had conversation where we're like. We're GONNA have to do this a couple of times or a bunch of times to get that tripped or we're GONNA have to replay this and definitely had happy accident sometimes where we get it on the first or second try but still WanNa try more just in case to see what happens Sometimes there just isn't cooperating. And he's gotTa do at ten twenty different times to get that perfect triple you're looking for. That's pretty common than that many takes. Yes Yeah Yeah depending on the job and you know what is actually being looked for. But if you're wanting that perfect trip it's going to take a Lotta tries. What about like color accuracy? I mean our clients really strict when they say. Hey that that you know we need this to look this kind of red or green. If it's some kind of leafy thing yes absolutely. I think that's a big thing that I'm editing or doing in camera. Obviously camera as much as you possibly can But there are a lot of. That's a lot of like a frequent question or a comment. I will get from the back end because I do handle which almost ninety nine percent of my retouching I do myself so I get a lot of asks for. Can we make this greener? We do that Sometimes if if for example a meat has been on set for awhile. Is You know like steaks. The color changes over time. We might have gotten the shot perfect and then we had to make more adjustments onset and things you know it would be a huge time constraint to have to. Redo something so if I can Bring it back even like combine a previous shot time shooting on tripod so if I can combine a shot it was like seven shots ago with the one that's current or if I can add it that in post I will. We'll do that for them. Yeah a lot of communication between food stylist and photographer and saying if we got a if the food looked that's best seven shots ago. Can we can that be compton or does that need to be remade for this one specific part of when adjustment was made where the remains to be restocked? Andrew? Would you are. You say it's a state shoot. How many versions of at stake will you have ready? Just in case I mean. Do you always have backups of everything? Yeah always backups of everything. I would as a general rule with savory dishes. Two to three if it's a cake or any type of deserve I'm making it the day before and possibly have more practice to make even more than making extra. I'm a set day starting a cake in the morning and talking to the photographer about having that shot later in the day so that I've a couple of options to show the client into an enough room that if it does need to be remade a recipe. That takes a long time that I've got along far enough. That it's not gonNA take too much time to totally remake it and I imagine you're a situation where you have to Redo one element of it also requires redoing others because the other ones will match or work were just too old. Yeah exactly yeah you said a perfectly sometimes one part of the suit of dependent. On another part of this one expe- redone the whole thing gets scrapped to start over and Chelsea for the the post process work. You is that something that you just Is it are you kind of unique in that sense that you're doing your own post work or and and you bill for that the same way or is it all kind of part of the process it's a debated question I have found is that it is rather unique that I do all my own retouching I know that there are photographers. Who prefer to to outsource that in and to have that. Especially when there's I wouldn't say they would prefer to outsource the visual touches that they're doing first That relates personally to their brand their visual. Look and things like that but it's the stuff that's like we know we have to slow this out. We have to clean this image Jillian tiny little adjustments that in someone who who is a retired teacher can do faster or more efficiently. You're cheaper I would say that I have so few jobs that have a mass quantity of images that that one final image is has minimal cleanup adjustments that are being made for my visual preference. And that's why I really enjoy retouching. Just because I'm able to you know I. I always feel that when I'm on set in. I have that final shot. It almost feels like you know to not to be funny but like a half baked cake like done yet. I know it's not done for my liking. So that really is for me is a whole `nother part of the process that I really enjoy. I think other Tara. I don't feel as attached to the post production aspect. I know a lot of people do what they call a treatment. So they'll say they'll edit like a series of twenty to their liking and then a researcher will replicate that with other or so I can you possibly. Maybe look into the future. A little. Bit Too to envision Food photography is going to be changing in the next several months to a year. And let's just kind of us at timeframe in general because that's what they're talking about before you know we may get back to normal And even some of the positives that may come out of this you know. Have you thought about that much how you know a food sotogrande shoots? GonNa look in in three months now. It seems like there's going to be a big to mand for everyone wearing masks onset for smaller crews for you know from the food side possible more Flexibility with products that are just aren't able to be sourced as easily whether that means they're whether that's because different bakeries or Aren't running or have gone out of business or have been affected by this There's not as easy of an ability to order things online or get that to you overnight or in the next couple of days as it was so thinks she's they're gonNa have to be planned a lot more advance and have a lot more communication Things like possibly propping sex beforehand and having the angles determined already so that sets can be instead of just sketched out. There can actually be a blueprint more so I think the planning is going to need to go out and that shoots that maybe could be planned within a week before going to take a couple of weeks longer to get off the ground I think is just a general worry About how to safely. Go back to assist them. That wasn't really prescribed before. Percents where I think there are a lot of jobs out there that you know you can eliminate where you can't work or you can separate to be further apart. You can do measures that will allow things to operate as normal shoots. They're just and same with the world. It's just it's really hard to to not be interacting with your with everyone on set with all of the products things like that so that that's GonNa be the biggest challenge and I definitely I think for the sake of thing that you're saying is like the the smaller Cruise like less ambitious shot lists for one day. She the the problem becomes like you know how do you? How do you convince clients that they're going to need to pay more in they're gonNA get less because that's hard and that's what we have to do in order to operate how we were before so the question will Businesses are going to be affected by. This won't have as much budget in. How can we all be smart to be working installer crews but also not jeopardize the industry his you know of course the That drouin I are working on our own. Like we're taking precautionary measures when when estimating things and putting together these shoots so that we know that when things go back to normal. It's not gonNA be crazy at. I asked her and assistant again or has necessarily because we can do something with the slower crew doesn't mean that is efficient for them in. They won't get more if we had more resources in in could go back to the way we were in their dislike internal struggle. That I've both German. I have been talking about a lot is just that you want be able to to give to these clients. Inches Day like yes. We're still working and we're still capable and we're doing this but you also don't want to put yourself in a position or the industry in a position where we can't go back to being properly not properly treated but you get what I'm saying and back to normal so that's that's really what it comes down to you. I know a lot of people have been talking about groups that they're going to be like almost like quarantining with and. I think that I'm wondering if that will happen more smaller. Crews that are super familiar with each other and work together a lot entrust each other will more or less like solely work with each other and I wonder if that's going to create this kind of like different pods of of artists in silence together but yeah we're constantly looking for you. Know whatever professionals doing another Webinar or something that Kinda can give us insight onto how how people are going to be operating again because it feels like every day news and through Utah. You'd heard from some studios from clients with their thoughts on the futures at anything you can share. Yeah we can't you know between instagram and Talking to other people in the industry about their plans obviously the biggest priority is making sure that everyone's safe and people have talked about how that can be done. Waivers are GONNA need to be signed and Chelsea. I talked about how the even that it's up in the air and if someone were to contract corona they can trace it back to being on sat with someone else that that's probably going to be a lawsuit in itself so just there's no roussel things though. This is not really specific to the industry this university not to take away or to negate what you're saying but this is something that. I think everybody in every industry is grappling with right now because again nothing that was will be absolutely. Yeah no that's not taking away from what I was saying at all I. I totally agree with that is by far not be on. Every industry is affected by this and the uncertainty reaches far beyond the food styling and SORTA world and To downplaying so much. So that's not the case at all It just you know. We've talked about a lot but it doesn't seem like there is going to be any perfect way to move forward and know when when Chelsea and I've been working together in the we've talked about how our month ago our rule was photographer and food stylist. And now we are jumping between photographer and prop stylish to prophesised and food style assistant and throughout the day. I have thought my mind is like okay now. I'm being the Food Sallis now. I'm being the photo assistant now. I'm being the prop assistant and jumping around where that's extending the shootout. And that's ultimately lowering the amount of shots that were able to do. You had asked if there were any positives that are coming out of his. You see a lot of that in the fact that I think people are being more open with each other. I'm seeing a lot of people communicating. How can we make this band together in Cherry sources and we literally have like one of our cooking pots at to a long string in one of my friends by in like something off that I needed in like? Pull it up like a police to the window in like it's just there's a lot of like banning together that's happening of course newark is just as like the perfect community for that. 'cause everybody just gets tougher when things get hard but It's also I think there's a lot being changed about. How people are what? They're looking for in visuals. And how the the Rawness of all of this has kind of driven people to further dislike things that are artificial and and not real and like people want to see reality more than they did before. And I think that's you know that's been happening before this whole This thing happened but it just seems like it's getting even more unseeded where it's like. Nobody has time for stuff. That's not real. People are cooking a lot more which I think is great. Maybe that's improving the demand for new recipes and Generally it's just having people make new things that they probably wouldn't have made before and I've made different things that have taken a couple of hours when I would only have time to do that on a weekend. And now I have days where I can spend on making dishes that I've been wanting to make for months and haven't gotten around to it so my wife and I trying a lot of things that we've never done before and usually with good results or Chelsea and drew. Thank you so much for joining us today. Yeltsin's people would like to see more of your work Websites instagram. Where should they go to? My website is Chelsea. Kyle Dot com very simple in my instagram is Chelsea Louise Kyle. Okay all right Andrew. What about yourself? My website is true dot ie cly and dot com and my grandma is drew drew equally. Sal that yeah I need to spell through. Dare W. and last name is a I C. H. E. L. and that will be on Our our homepage is well in the podcast page. So if you missed it on this is definitely going to be doing the show notes as well. Thank you both for joining us in. Hang in there and keep persevering like the rest of us. Okay folks before we say tools we just WanNa let you in on something special ready for this. The Dean Nature Photography podcast is going to be conducting a new photography contest. And you know what the prize is return. You cease to their upright positions and fold your snack trays folks. Because we don't want you to mess yourself when we tell you that the price is going to be a like acute to with talking about forty seven mega pixels worth of kick ass camera from one of photography's most legendary camera manufacturers Leica. I shot with the Q. Two and I can tell you. It's an amazing imaging tool for now. Keep listening to the podcast and check the bean website for the exact launch date and the rules for entry for the record is going to be a judge photo contest based on images taken during the quarantine shutdown the entry period will start late. May sustained tuned and stay creative for now. My name is Alan White's in on behalf of John Harris and Jason tables. Thank you so much for tuning in to day.

Chelsea New York Chelsea Silas Chelsea Andrew US editor Drew director food editor Hellofresh Lacroix Pinera Cartolini Kyle Alan White Artists Agency State Minimum Crew
Cameras of the Year, 2020

B&H Photography Podcast

1:00:33 hr | 5 months ago

Cameras of the Year, 2020

"You're listening to the h. Photography podcast for over forty years be h has been the professional source photography video audio and more for your favor gear. News and reviews visited dot com or download the being h up to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan white's greetings and welcome to the beach photography podcast. It's that time of year again. Time to have a look at the more interesting camera and lens. Announcements of the year few of us will probably ever forget some great cameras and lenses came to market this year and with us to talk about him is kevin record. Who is the camera and lighting senior sales trainer for b. n. h. Kevin instructs our pro photo staff on all the features and specs of the new cameras often getting them in his hands. Well before anybody else does And again the thing with cav is that he has to know this stuff to train the staff so that when you go into being h you could actually get good information kevin. Welcome back to the show. Your repeat performing here thank you. It was going to be back in do this twenty twenty recap of elephant cameras. Some i got to play with and somebody didn't get to play with. But of course i train my people on them so very exciting. Thanks cool stuff. Before we get into a list of the cameras and lenses we will pitched in our little ideas. We're going to put you on the spot. What's your favorite camera of twenty twenty. Just curious my favorite camera. Twenty twenty i would say would be. I'm really fond. Fujifilm x one hundred v simply because it's a nice twenty three millimeter which is a thirty five millimeter equivalent lands. It's a perfect travel camera. But on the flip side of that. What i think was the most important camera the year when it comes down to the grand scheme of things i would say it was probably the cannon. Us are five in our six releases. They kind of made murless cameras more. you know. Put the more map in twenty twenty so now like a more serious thing for everybody. It's sort of sealed the deal. I guess i mean sony took it and ran with it and pretty much own demean. Fuji's been doing their their their share that but the fact that canon and nikon were kind of like you know sticking their toes in the water for the longest time this kind of just it's sealed the deal it it it. Everything's credible now it is. It is a mirrorless world. Dsl ours are fading from the picture as a lot of other little cameras but yeah this seems to be the direction of going and they and they did a great job with to both cameras. I was involved with the intro of them on. We did the videos reviews and they're really nice cameras. They do perform as advertised that they do. It's basically a cannon stopped dipping their tony award it kind of went just the cannonball into it and It really put ripple effect into the whole landscape of photography Photography so now. Cannon has a nice high resolution forty five megapixel camera with the are five. That does eight k for those who want to do that and there are. Six is no slouch at all Twenty megapixels just four k sixty and both are just come out with them that came out with those cameras is very nice I believe they came out with at the same time. Those six hundred a eight hundred those interesting f eleven lenses that are out there so basically. Now you have. People who didn't couldn't afford a twelve thousand dollar lines could get it for more new better price. Do you have an opportunity to use either of those lenses nodding if the daily sent me the are five in our six play around with so okay see i i had. I was able to use both at six. The eight hundred and their incredible. I've used a lot of really long lenses. Him in my time and these were so easy to use their light of the image stabilization works beautifully and the small apertures on. It doesn't matter. It used to be that if like a mirror. Lands would be f- eight or a long list. Be five six look through the fine to his dim electronic finders. It brightens up. It makes it easier to use and image stabilization and the autofocus technology. Just nails it. The camera is just the cameras and those lenses are really really amazing but if it were jumping ahead of ourselves let's talk. Let's turn back. You're credible that those two lenses are are kind of the the main talking points of the year. I think it's great and and we're definitely going to get to them but While we're on canon and as you were trashing. Dsl as we should mention the eos one the x. mark three came out and it wasn't trashing them saying that you know they're taking second and by the way there's always going to be room for them and there are people who still prefer them and they do have the reason for being here it's But but you know if you look at the big picture but anyway go ahead. I'm sorry the one x mark three and the nikon equivalent The dc six right. I mean these are maybe showing what you're getting at allen. Which is that these cameras are now going to be just for the specialist right just for the sports photographers and maybe some of the wildlife photographers who who want that. Kind of camera and Although a lot of them were also switching to the to the mirrorless but These are the still remain the toughest of the tough cameras to. If you're not mistaken. I ends flagship. Cameras are really built for so again if you're in the kind of environments that you're an industrial photographer annual reports. Were even even sports where you get banged around a lot of these cameras. You might want to look at the shore. And their connectivity have have improved him in the they're kind of making themselves for what they are people who need to get news photos back to their to the editors immediately and And of course be tough and strong and fast and all those things so the thing about the mirrorless is now that from nikon canon to reinvent lens. mount sinai have better optics Now which is which is really nice especially coming from like the nikon. Didn't change your amount since the sixties mr the first time when it came out. The z z amount. So it's a little bit of evolutionary when it comes down to optics so hello we throw this out. 'cause we're still on cannon I guess the power shot zoom camera which is totally in the opposite direction. But that's made the list of insulin. Basically some unoccupied camera. So yes so you have your resume built into it We believe it was like a one hundred to four hundred half fixed digital zoom inside of there when we get back around doing a live sports in such like that or someone wants to go walking through wooden. do some wildlife like shots. That is nice possible camera. Probably the most unique camera the year honestly twelve megapixel. Yeah i would say for birdie hiking and birding and things like that it's just it really is ideal. It's a 'cause it's so easy to carry. I think it's the form factor is really changed. It you think about if you took the same specs and put it into a typical power. Shot package you know. The typical form factor of point. Should we wouldn't be talking about it too. Am i right or wrong. You know so. I think this is interesting the technology. There's nothing unique about the technology but it's the package that they put it into an also people going. Oh look at that. that's kind of fun. I could slip into my pocket easily. You know i was thinking you know. We put up a couple of bird feeders. In the past six months like a lot of people did and this would have been kind of a cool thing to have because every once in a while especially with migrations going on. We had a from hummingbirds to bald eagles. Flying around over the house here. So it's it's it is all kinds of stuff could've gotten some interesting shots probably Next year i'll add it to my little list. Let's jump over to like them because I think that's what everyone here wants to talk about. And they put out three really interesting cameras this year. And i know you haven't on everyone's list. I don't think it was on my list. And i love the camera but it wasn't on my list which won the mvp no or yes. It's a great camera. Noggin at all. It was not on my list. Everybody else through it on there and it is a significant camera. I had a brief time to use the camera. And that was after a. I already had an ten monochrome. It was interesting to compare to shoot the color and the black and white side by side. i think the most significant thing about the camera is the fact that forever They were twenty four megapixel as a cap. Even though twenty four megapixel is more than enough for like ninety nine percent of of the photographs that most of us do all right. It's nice to know that there's a largest sensor they are just again from these reasons of cropping or tonality. Whatever you wanna call it. But i think it was nice that like was able to jump up and kind of get up there in the megapixel race with everybody else And it makes a difference. You know with like the most intriguing. One i think besides the the mtr is also like the q. Monochrome which just announced sto once again like that. That camera being fixed lens. Forty six point seven megapixels with twenty eight millimeter lens but the fact that they did censor is now. Monochromatic has no color filter array on their Just the sharpness dynamic ranging from that cameras would be phenomenal It's just one of those cameras. You could have destroyed your not your pocket per se but throwing a bag and go travel. Take some shots with that and have that that. Look that everything monica just pops and sings a certain way. It does I i had I worked on the video in the The written review of it for for being h explorer. So i had it for about a week before. It was actually announcing we the video. We did everything and I found that count to be absolutely wonderful and by the way you can't fit it into a coat pocket or you have cargo pants. You become a lumpy but you can do it. But the thing is the weight and the size. Form factor is really gorgeous. The land is phenomenal. It was made for that camera. You won't find that lends anywhere else. And the sensor in both q two in the queue to monochrome designed specifically to go with that lens. It's it's it's a nice closed system. Everything is optimized for everything else within the package And you mentioned the image quality I used to shoot for by five. And i have high risk. Scans of a lot of four five. Black and white negatives and i opened up those images. Nfl shot side by side of a lot of issues with the m. ten Monochrome and the q two monochrome which is even higher resolution. It's like shooting four or five. It's not an exaggeration. Look at the The structure of the image at one hundred percent. And it's it's it's really kind of amazing. And yes you can do amazing black and white conversions from any of the decent Color digital cameras. But there's an edge you have your because the fact. The pickles aren't being separated by rgb rg gb. Everything is grey tone. So you have a forty megapixel sensor recording or forty six megapixel sensor and you compare it to a safe forty or forty six megapixel or gb sensor converted. It's sorta like triple the resolving parenthood analogy because there's nothing being divided between the colors everything is going to one channel so it's a big big difference And if you look at pictures on instagram you won't see a big difference but if you look at the actual files you make prints and you're serious about black and white. You really can't beat these cameras. You really really can't agreed. On that note of german high end brands To have come out with cameras this year in some shape or form is the one from is. Even though it was announced in two thousand eighteen finally popped out of the ether showed up for twenty twenty and that is an intriguing camera. It's lot is different from things that we've encountered into pass considering that it's a big touching the bag fixed lens camera thirty-seven megapixels. Roughly bud interesting thing about it. It has adobe light room. cc integrated into the into the unit. So you're out about shooting oddly enough instead of using a smartphone or tablet. You could actually edit your photos on the back of the screen on this camera from zeiss. Which is a very interesting entry into the foray of a cameras out there. Have you had a chance to use it. I'm just seeing pictures. I have never handled it. I've seen pictures of it. I saw close pane of glass. I smell yeah right after yours on that last nose prints on his glasses hours early. But yeah it's it's. It's interesting on how that wanting because at that when she has a leaf shutter to you know icing speeds. You could get that. But it's a camera that has a foreign touching on the back Fixed lens adobe Built into it basically using a version of android and then an internal five twelve. Ssd so you don't memory cards. So the idea is like you go out and do everything on just one piece of one camera basically. So it's a very intriguing concept when it comes down to everybody. Thought it'd be vaporware like all they just announced this though those prototypes have never actually came out but actually they did it. Which is kind of remarkable. Because i was looking kind of precarious for from zeiss. Have a nice little wear meaning yet but is that a phrase. It's out there ladder. And i i just missed it or cool cool based on like let's announce this and then it doesn't pop up and then Yeah vaporware agree with software sometimes hardware like the nikon or the name of that. That's the l. series from nikon was. Yes that's a perfect example and that that term was used a lot for that. Yes yes so. My question earlier in maybe is something we can hold for the end when we talk. We wrap up the year. But with with like a you know going to these heavy megapixel cameras and of course Canon and nikon both with their their murless highrise options are is there a a pixel race starting up again. I of thought we were out of that but Or is it just kind of the technology you know technology now available to everybody in a lot. Easier any thoughts on this idea of Megapixel cameras again. Yeah yeah yeah. That's a good question. Because i think that we're kind of past that now. I think what it is is every manufacturer will have a high resolution option now. So it's like all right little display. For example canon the are five are six huger forty megapixel high resolution one. Here's your more modest. Mid twenties twenty megapixel option. Same thing with nikon the deed. Fifty d seven eighty. Sony has been doing it so i think it's more of just how the industry's aligning yourself now. So you have a high resolution option for those who need it in. You have the one that is more video centric if you needed in you have one. That is more modest. You have sony. Does hannah sonic cannons doing it now Nikon does it with disease. Six seven So i think it's less of a megapixel race. I think more if you notice. That industry's been trending now. Ucla like autofocus autofocus. Now like how much points about focuses have how much coverage was it has does it have. I detect the have animal detect as do this as a do that so i think that's the trend that is kind kinda going and then beyond that. I believe like a lot of it is. It's a subtle but you see it is like the machine learning. Ai that these cameras get now. I believe that's next frontier Panasonic has a little bit of that Sony does they have some. Ai mechanisms in there to make eye af better or things that are built into the camera to make it recognized scenes. Better to put a proper settings and it's just going to the next step and everything. I think considering that sensors are coming from maybe one or two places these as maybe three. But i think we're past that point of like the you know the megapixel race thing is becoming more of a other things because it's kind of reminds me of a late nineties early. Two thousands hundred megahertz race. And some people and talk about megahertz computers anymore. Say this is five is six. That's about it. But for the most part i think we're looking at more of what can camera do to make it easy. It comes to autofocus and such like that. Also there's a video race to if you notice so could be a or who can do ten bit things of that nature so to two points. from what you just said First of all the autofocus is an interesting point folks race. One of the things. I noticed with the are five or six when i was playing around them. Is that when you put it into maximum frames per second and you watch the finder as you. Just hold your finger down the shutter button all the focus points you see them popping up on the screen will a little points that are coming into focus and one of the things. I realized that as i'm using this cameras that i don't think i missed any pictures on photographing guys throwing around frisbees and chasing stuff and will and that camera was right on top of the action and had my subject was able to track. The frisbee can see the little green dots going across the screen. As i'm shooting showing where the focuses so that is definitely part of it. I mean i i. I was shooting knowing that the pictures were coming out. There was no doubt about it. And that's kind of interesting. You know a kind of feeling to have when you're out there and we're talking about is the the megapixel race. I think early on when we started to go from you know eight megapixel. I went and we'll just three megapixel then with the six and there was a big deal and we hit ten and twelve and one of the problems was that as you squeeze more and more pixels into a fixed area. Twenty four by thirty six millimeter Whatever the size of the sensor is the small sensor the less dynamic range you have the less highlight detail the shadow detail and the and the mid section starts at suffered too and that was a big thing early on but now with with firmware upgrades and software and all kinds of other advanced technologies. There are ways of putting this so-called loss data back into or maintain it without losing it again. I'm not a technical guy but what they're doing is they're managing the loss there being being able to expand the resolving power without having the dynamic range suffer of the image and i think that's one of the reasons why we're now seeing. Oh now we're going into forty fifty sixty megapixel and it'll be hundred whatever it is and i think we'll start picking that up as the technology behind it enables us to maintain a really good layer of image quality because if the image quality goes down it doesn't matter how sharp it is it is no highlights and shadows cares. Said one the to definitely Yeah we're getting better. Sensors better processing image pipeline involved to pull out the dynamic range from the sensor which comes down to censor is i love like wind comes on image formats. What were the two image formats that we've had for the for ages now when it comes to buy diesel. Are you have raw and jpeg right. Wendy x marked re comes out. They added a new kodak for for stills basically the h. h f files and then all of a sudden you have these pop differ manufacturers now so basically that's a Compressed file j. peg. But you have more color you have ten bit of color instead of eight bit. So that's something to keep an eye on as we go on and if you notice like a lot of the industry is going towards away that especially this is camera. That had just mentioned there. Dentistry is trying to compete. Or supplement with the smartphone and that new up the new format that i mentioned was i one of the first cameras. Actually have that cameras. I put that in air quotes for you. is basically the iphone. That was one of the first ones to use that format. What does this weird file basically smaller size. But he had ten bits of them timothy kohler and it's just a more efficient which a bar that from the the video kodak eight shots six five but now you have cameras out there that jay peg this new kodak and Raw all mixed in so. Now it's something to keep in mind when cameras. Come out doing your editing that you have another coat to deal with a format. That's a good point. Yeah that's a that's a great point. Let's jump over to fujifilm men. And i know kevin. You started off mentioning the x one hundred v so the x one hundred. V is the fifth one v for five roman numeral So there but yeah. Yeah so the first one was letter. It's it's weird because that's as was for second t for third four five. I guess you can do never knew. Couldn't they couldn't do f- twice. So victor hasselblad. You got me totally confused here but fuji fuji wish pretty like because obviously had told the year was kind of just like the pink cloud so he didn't really a lot of things are coming out but Came out this year with the extra four x one hundred v Then it came out while. Xt two hundred which was entry level camera which you're not going to go into that much but basically then it came out a few like a month or two ago with s. ten which is confusing because they added another line when they're just lines right now but the thing about. It is a canoe series from fuji. Which is a blend of the exceed thirty series at say an xt four since it has image stabilization. It's twenty six megapixels with the same processor and sensor as xt four six stops of civilization in there. But the thing about it is that it's really entry level. This is fuji's foray into compete with like sony. A six thousand series and such that it has no other ceiling because thousand dollar camera and it's more straightforward design. Were used to having all these knobs to replicate a film camera and such like that. This one is just a standard p. s. a. m. mode. Dial up top and this is just people who you know like the fuji colors but they don't wanna be settling our on those knobs. So i think it's interesting additions. Fuji lineup It's a it's a very full lineup. That fuji has dude. I feel like they do. Aps pse the best because it's nice balance between almost quality of the full frame but at a smaller form factor feeling that full frame weight per se. so it's a very nice balanced obviously If you want something better than full frame fuji has a g. affects line so if you want your wonder megapixels or your fifty megapixel medium format camera. They have them. I always thought that was brilliant. Away they kind of skipped The the quote unquote full frame format and went from abc to medium format. Kind of brilliant. Marketing thing. I also have to commend them. Food is one of the few companies where you could identify the camera by the images that takes. There's a definite fuji film. Look that is unique It's very very brilliant. Saturated color It's it's not what you would call natural color. Although it looks amazing people love it but they nailed it on that also a lot especially with the x one hundred The five whatever you wanna call it The form factor is so like it 'em and they match it with a thirty five millimeter equivalent lands. And it it's really. It's they're really harking back to the original like m. three kind of look at that same m looked that exist today but it's a small a digital camera and more but it just looks cool and even the little details on it they just go into a nice retro. Look about it but they do it well and then. Technology is brilliant with the finders in the lenses in the collar. So it's a great packages fuji puts out. We're all really is. And i do like that if you go to find her on the x one hundred series. I like the hybrid finder. So it's like electronic you click it again in its optical than a quick it again and it's as little corner that's actually like digital and interested is optical so it's a very interesting evf that they have their It's makes it fun to shoot anything. That's what the fuji film line is. All about is about harking back to shooting film villa and stuff like that and being just like everyone makes fun and i wonder what the numbers are. People who Fuji film and actually try phil. That's an interesting thought process that they have their so. Yeah because you could actually select film stocks fuji film. You can and then go out and shoot that stock and see how it compares to what you're doing digitally. I don't know if anybody's done that. That could be an interesting. I just got an idea for a story. Actually the a seven s three has got a lot of chatter. I'm kind of curious about the a seven c though any thoughts on that kevin or any other sony campaign has wanna put on your list for this year. Yeah yeah so there's when it comes down to it so sony's big thing. This year was obviously a long as seven. Three which is probably undoubtedly the best four k recording camera in Maryland line right now is probably another one that we mentioned later but for the most part that was everybody was waiting for that. Come out. I play around with that camera. It is exactly what you think. it is it's great it's autofocus as a great video quality's great record for long periods of time. 'cause it's a longer battery and plus it doesn't overheat But the a seven. C was an interesting camera because everybody was thinking that Coming out with a budget minded camera to compete with like let's say the cannon rpm and stuff like that like a thousand dollar full frame camera but sunny did surprise us and came out with a seven c now what that is basically to put it simply is every housed a seven three and so it has a lot of journals it does not use the same the new menu that you'll find on the a seven s three. It's the same traditional menu. that's only been putting on a cameras for since the therefore was came out. It is not definitely a slot with. It's very good camera. But it's aimed for vloggers so it has a flip screen. A form factor. That's mormons into a six thousand series of cameras Video is great as hlg in there has stabilization in there which was a feat of engineering that they were able to put it in a camera small and they also came out with a new kit lens with that but the idea that smaller match camera sizes. A twenty eight to sixty millimeter lens. And it's very small and it's able to match size of hammer so that's two things at sony. Came out with cords back after the year They also came out with a few lenses earlier this year at twelve to twenty four millimeter disappointed. They also came out with the lager. Camera the pocket one which is basically one inch twenty megapixel cameras. Ev one. so it's nice little camera dragging your pocket does your does your External recording but it's good to just jump on the little hand held grip. And just you know if you have any blogs you should use that camera but but yeah a seven days. Seven was probably like the surprise. At alaska's christ close to a seven three itself now people who want to flip screen. But it's gone up two thousand dollars. That's camera for them. So we'll see how that does and Let's jump over to nikon then anything to mention about those the the z. Seven two is higher. Res- version They seem to be very well received by nyc shooters. Maybe they didn't get as much attention as as the canon are five did but I don't know. I know a couple of people that are using them and they love him. Yeah yeah any particular thoughts. Yeah i think that the nikon nikam for the most part has it was kinda in the shadow in the whole mirrorless aspect of because cannon user began users. they jumped with the are five in our sex but nikon that came out with disease. Six z. Seven made two years ago in two thousand. Eighteen cannot with those and they were well received but there were some issues that you'll have with them like a wisely card slot so a between here and then not conduct come with updates for the z sixty seven. That made him a bit better when it comes to autofocus and now the came out with their full-fledged let's second second generation for those of the disease to seven two you have faster af attitude card slots wanna compaq See if express type. B and st uhs four k sixty. It'll be available for on a firmware update on one of the other models and they have proper medical grip now for for the suit cameras so this was a nice refresh to the line. So basically you could say like the sixty seventy original ones. Were just like like. We said before to underwater kyp- type of deal but now they're fleshing out their roadmap for lenses they have more substantial cameras on to memory card slots now because everybody's on other brands for only having one card slot now not gonna to cut slots there and i think we saw not kind of waking up Introduces the five new year which is basically for all intensive purposes december fifty mirrorless body so nice entry level z. Mount tam camera there for from nikon but the six to seven to are very updates at nikon needed to release in a twenty twenty kind of keep relevant these days and i think that also leads to our or or. Get back to our point earlier about you know. These two manufacturers are now fully on into mirrorless and You know there's there's no going back however let's go back because the d seven eighty also came out and you just mentioned the seven fifty now. Imagine it's gonna get overlooked a lot but to me that these haven't fifty has been you know my go-to cameras for the past five years and i'm considering getting the d seven eighty at least one of them to have with. I mean it's an update. Maybe not a lot of bells and whistles. Nothing too fancy but I'm happy refinement. Exactly it's a refined. Basically took symphony was a great camera. It was my one of my good friends has one and Just loves it but the thing is like they needed to do a little bit of update to it. So it's still playing for megapixels as better autofocus ben. They added a lot of the features. That is funny. How they are branching features now like like a which is called her now The end log. Hlg the temperate video. Which basically the way. I explained it to my sale staff was basically the seventies and update the kind of makes that looks like a z. Six dias laura form factor. So basically if you like that. Dsl our body more robust and he's like the features coming out that these d. seven eighty s very good modern. Cslr for on shooters question. Maybe a about this idea. I mean if we're at this point in let's say you're night country to for example Are you gonna jump over to the murless and start investing in in the new glass or are you going to maybe take it. Slow get an adapter. Continue to use your glass Maybe start slow with one of the murless cameras. Were to stick with the alert. You know go with seven eighty or whatever happens to be your choice in and and go that way Any thoughts on that and that goes for any any camera line but you know. Yeah it's it's it's an interesting thought. Because i'll remember when i mentioned about todd. These brands going to mirrorless. Kinda gives you a chance. To update their optics. Thing about nikon's optics is that the actual diameter the mouth is very small so that kind of limits. Some as far as lens design so when you went from the f. mount to mount A larger mount size in the back to damage larger Get your optics to be much better so when it comes down to it i feel that if someone was going from To mirrorless in the nikon aspects of it since nikon developed mount any developed a z amount. And have your own adaptor. I believe it to be less of an issue taking your time with because you may have all. These lenses have characteristics that you like and they're adapted works really well with the autofocus. It has losing any functionality. When it comes down to it so i personally would take my time if i need to. Migrate to Camera and just pick the lenses. Come out and when you get to a certain lens i like this lenses sharper than what i had before. That's when you start to pick and choose what focusing tear choose on the z mount side of things when it comes down to lebron's like canon canon kept lens diameter. just have more contact so with that flinches instead involved with the camera to make the back part of the glass closer to the sensor which is optically better Same thing that adapters worked really well for canon system as well. So if you don't do i party adapters like chandy. Lenses made by canon four cannon camera if the lose hardly any features on that and as a good way to migrate as long as the adapters are good. If you'd like cross branding that's starts to get a little bit. Tricky like a lot people who migrated sony years ago. We're coming from canon or nikon nuts. When you had a lot of these adapters that i worked with this lands but this lens so much and you had a lot of issues on that but go from within the same brand and now you actually can cause nykanen candidate both on but mirrorless. You can have an easier time and you can take your time. Migrating from system to system wouldn't brand. That's really advice. I think you just sum that up really really well and i'll just add a little note about with lens adapters. don't don't skimp mom Gone through a lot of different actors. And i'm not gonna say that. Some of the inexpensive ones are horrible because truth matters. I have a couple of Twenty dollars twenty five dollars. Adapt is actually quite good and and the tight and the image quality is wonderful. But i found on the most part. The better adapters. The more precision ones are better. Fit is no wiggle and image quality. Just quantitive corner. It just seems to hold up because you have to keep in mind if just one end of an adapter on the front end of the backing of just a little bit out of you know at true not quite true. Your image quality is not going to be there. Audio frame is going to be not the sharp especially at wider apertures richer richaud basically. Yeah and again. It's it's a kind of investment where you going to be with your a while. I mean especially if using these. This is a good thing. It's an intermediary So that's a good thing to keep in mind. Okay let me jump real quickly to mention just the the rico jar three st edition. We won't talk about it too much. Because from what i understand. It's basically just a year three with a little different. Look they have this. This metallic gray body racing stripes racing stripes exactly cameras have their followers. And i've actually kind of want to try them out when when using the monochrome the The cue to one of the things that came to mind was that i think would be amazing if they came out with a pocket camera appoint and shoot small sensor monochrome. Something along the line of reiko gr three but a little digital monochrome cameron that form factor and keep it to like you know thousand twelve hundred somewhere on that. Just keep that in mind. Let's move on. I'm waiting then. I think it's a great idea. So the olympics. Oh md em one mark three any thoughts so cameras have really well. Sealed usually would recommend them for people who are. Don't want a full frame and in need reach because now you're one hundred millimeter lens is actually two hundred lens. Four hundred and eight hundred so basically if you need to be shooting things far away and you don't wanna get that a cannon power shut zoom and you want something with a really quick a the. Em one series is very good at twenty. Megapixels microphone third sensor one point one point of focus Sixty frames per second if you put it in a a certain mode so really good. And plus it probably has rating wise when it comes down to image stabilization. You have seven stops. So if you're going to be doing birding sports and you don't mind microphone sensors just a really good. I think you summed up the markets. That pretty well actually and I think it's worth mentioning that. A lot of their lenses are equally waterproof approved a compared to the body. It's not like the bodies waterproof but the lens iffy. The glass is equally sealed I think in most of the most case. I'm not gonna say all of them. I believe most cases it is. They are And that also makes a big difference. You can just go out there and any kind of weather and you do get a lot of bang for your buck. From olympus technology that is in these cameras is really pretty remarkable Again great camera. It's not appoint shoots real real deal camera that can do some pretty good imaging basically for people who are familiar with the before this release was the the em one x-xv basically allowed those features were spoiled into the em one mark three so a lot of people what people want to live nd and haenel hi rez mode made it from that camera and so the m one park three. These are just like you said as you said alphabet soup As lot there. And i guess we do we. Are we gonna mention Like big stories from twenty twenty for in camera world because olympus has one with the fact that afford. Yeah so yes. So olympus one of the big things coming from olympus is how they basically sold their imaging sector To japan industrial partners which have were known for taking up the brand as well. So olympus themselves are not to be putting out olympic cameras anymore. They sold off their imaging lines to a different company. So who knows how will change olympus down the road Tobia brand is still pretty Pretty good so this this hope for them. Olympus is obviously big in the medical field So that kind helps helps them out a bit but you have brands like nikon. Which don't have been at the first five canonise copiers and medical scopes and such that So we'll see how it goes for for olympus We'll say it's one of the oldest camera brands out there. So we'll see how they do. Hope for Thinking about diversified brands. I think i'm good segue please. Let's talk about the s five. Yes so this was a camera. I played around with excited to play around with this one. Because this is if anyone has shot with 'swan h are there be cameras For mirrorless camera like these are a big there so finally pants has come out with some business. A ton per se And it has a lot of nice features on dozen splash. Resistant is twenty four megapixel Most people six and a half stops of image stabilization dual native iso. has alive you composite mode which is unique to full frame camera. And it's not a slash comes on video there will be a raw raw video update for when you put into adamos those. We'll have dc. I for can turn on when it comes down to it but for the most part panasonic throughout a camera that is very well suited with their line. It varies very close to him. It probably will eat up some of their s wanna sales but honestly i think that s five is a camera that panasonic needed to come out with because they're a ecosystem with leica in sigma. So they have to be bullied in some way so now you have a camera. That's out there that is priced has logged could features and it was mentioned before about how for updates are becoming the norm now when it comes down to camera so a camera that make him today may in fact be better now five months from now or six from because of the former updates that these brands are putting out to kind of help. You squeeze out a little bit more life out of the cameras. So that's the thing about camera reviews. These days sometimes camera reviews are based on something that happened a year ago and then the new from update comes out and changes the camera completely. So you have better features in there. S five was really good and Not to be forgotten and kinda was kinda forgotten like a lot of allow world Became a blogging centric. Seems at this year. So the dc g. one hundred was camera. a microphone. thirds camera came out that a microphone. Nokia basically it's made for logging flip screen has one to one if you wanna. Which instagram doesn't us anymore. But it has that feature in their Actually pretty good video. Four k thirty four twenty four full hd sixty v log civilization. It's just for people who you know. Terrorist stories are walking in their home. The kansan like zeevi one was similar idea. Exactly it's and for those people. I know there's a lot of people out there who You know what happened with the pandemic twenty twenty but a lot of the camera brands have put out software for to use your most recent cameras as a webcam. So if you zoom meetings the thing this year A lotta things like people were doing livestreams and such like that. So most of these manufacturers sony canon nikon olympics Panasonic have all come out with some former software that you could plug in to computer via usb and use it as a camera so that's something to note for people who are you know you wanna get in touch with people across the way or maybe start a new venture with a you know livestream a good point though really well. We're wrapping up cameras. Let's talk quickly about the hassle. Blood ninety seven x which i believe is actually released in two thousand nineteen. But i didn't hear about until twenty twenty Is there anything i mean. It's an incredible camera and obviously it's going to bring a lot of great hustle blood gear into Into the digital world. Anybody have thoughts the annette. I find it pretty interesting that you know they're they're coming up with a camera that allows older hasselblad users to use their old gear. Because again the big thing with this is that You could use From the five hundred series cameras these system that they call all of those lenses now could be used with digital back either with the intermediary or directly And it's an interesting concept. I think that's the fifty. See back on that third on my camera I think it's pretty interesting whether it's going to be selling. You're not i don't know. I think it's really pretty stunning. Has it look. It's just really. It's really nice it's interesting. It's basically a mirrorless medium format camera. It's basically it bridges a gap for people. Who had the older film backs in such like that in the lenses and such like that. So it's a really really intriguing to see how it does but it. It is gorgeous. I saw it when it was when they announced only announced that it was the same time as twenty two. And when i saw this camera. Ooh that's pretty. Yeah iphone twelve pro. Maybe that's a less camera on her list. I don't know i am. I'm only including of someone else is going to want us to include it but I actually. I have one thing we through that was announced. But let's talk about that. Has anyone used it. I don't need. I don't need a new phone yet. I've been reading. A lot of write up sounded the iphone pro. Max jesus names iphone pro. Max has added a little bit of a larger image sensor to one of the modules on there and it has censorship stabilization. So interesting thing about it is that it is. When i get into the whole computational photography type type deal that you have a brain doing allow the tribe line so they have the firmware update wilderness affirm updates actually ios update. But you'll have a apple pro raw as image format which basically is flexibility of raw. But a lot of computational adjustments into that file so if because he basically what would happen if it was just a raw file you get those little like night mode type fixes to the image so this the between so get the raw flexibility but with computational aspects of the that the camera included. So we'll see how that goes down the road but it's an interesting ikea step into the whole idea when it comes down to House smartphones have basically eaten up The point should market and now is becoming more paranaque. Do like dolby. Hdr on i found so it's interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Okay dog at one. My not now but neck. Maybe fifteen five hundred fifteen. Maybe i don't know i'm still using and eight plus in its fine but i'm looking forward to getting one of these cameras to see where they've gone from here I use my phone a lot. I'll be the first admit. I think it's a great tool to have. It's always with me And i make good use of it. And i recognize the differences between the pictures are take with my iphone and my other quote unquote real cameras. there are differences and they and they each have their place. You know but one does not replace the other. I think that's something that i've come to. The conclusion of and i could live with that one other camera That's worth mention this. I just noticed that this morning is that Fuji half would you film has introduced the fuji film g fx. One hundred are For that is for one hundred. Megapixel infrared imaging it forensic camera be great landscape camera And they also have a firmware upgrade For the g. affects one hundred of that will enable multi shot functionalities. You could shoot at one hundred or five hundred mah megapixel equivalents and same thing for the infrared camera. It'll have a multi shots functionality. So that's a big leap. If you're into like you know crazy. Nosebleed resolving power. This is the way to do it And the new camera will be out early. Twenty twenty one they say and the firmware upgrade might be available now if not probably about the same time okay That's with cameras. Lenses is just too many to talk about. So i guess the best thing to do is let's all look at the list we have here and throughout some thoughts on it I have a couple of quick ones year. Nikon has the night corsie twenty millimeter f one. Eight s lens. I'm into fast Wide angle lenses. Sony has one also. That's the same specs. But i kinda notice it's kind of fun is at nikon also has the Afs nyquil that one twenty two three hundred millimeter two eight eight two eight e. f. l. e. s. r. vr. Tracing alan real fast and. What kind of cool about the twenty millimeter lens. Folks is down to seven point. Eight seven inches. The this new zoom. That's one twenty. Three hundred folks is down to two meters at all focal lanes the maximum magnification on both lenses is about one point six or one point nine which is interesting you could take twenty millimeter and a one twenty three hundred and you can fill the frame with your subject close up to the same scale but totally different pictures. Now he's a subject to be. The same background will be like like real wide real tight or whatever but it'd be kind of fun to do that nikon a nikon canon. The came out a whole bunch of the rif series lenses when they came out with the new cameras. I used pretty much all of them. The eighty five macro is wonderful. I talked about the six hundred eight hundred millimeter f eleven. I s. t. m. a. a super telephoto. They're amazing absolutely wonderful. And i think the only other lenses. I want to mention here Venus allowuah however they pronounce it They came out to macro kinda cool. They have fifty millimeter. two point. eight. Two x oltra macro apo and that is for It's apple chromatic. That's for a micro four thirds so it's one hundred millimeter equivalent lands. It will give you twice life size. And then for people who have a pse cameras they came out at the sixty millimeter way to x. Macro apple chromatic. and that's the equivalent of a ninety or ninety six millimeter equivalent depending on what candy su who we have to longer macro lens to give you twice life size and i think that's the ingredients for some pretty exciting imaging and of these other lenses here but i'll let other people talk about him. John what are you. What are you interested in while you're right. There's a lot of great lenses that came out this year And i agree on that lake on one. Twenty three hundred millimeter to that f. Two point eight. That's a looks like a great lens But when i want to mention is the olympus one fifty to four hundred millimeter f. Four five lens and it's It's a fixed that for four five throughout the focal lengths and it has a built in one point two five tele converter and i was able to use that lens for a review a few weeks ago and i really love that lens it was just it just makes you know ultra telephoto photography so easy It's incredibly light. It's you know water. Resistant does prove all of those things that you need and with tele converter built in you have a range you know on a microphone. Thirds camera goes all the way up to a thousand millimeters in body in a barrel. That's not much bigger than a standard seventy two two hundred millimeter to wait Just love that lend so Any olympic shooters out there microphone. Throw shooters out there as take a look at it. How about you. Kevin anything That's what your fancy in terms of lens of this year has been a few nice releases this year elementary Venus venus objects. They also some interesting wide lenses to have like a fifty millimeter perspective. Control lens that they release. They have a full frame nine millimeter lens. It came out with which is really phenomenal when it comes down to just my meters on full frame also. There's some been a few a film that. Come out with the except fifty millimeter. One point. oh our lens like a abo- monster when it comes down to it For people doing porteous on fuji access them You do have The fourteen twenty four two point eight s lens from nikon z mount. That's an interesting since it's a very wide angle lens. Obviously but with the lens include with it actually put a one millimetre filter on their which usually when lenses at wide. It's a very was front and you have to get this whole this Like lee filter or heidar nessie on there so it was interesting today are able to get a technically a real filter on their When it comes down to On segments had has had a busy year to they come with a eighty five for the mirrorless lines the amount into amount and also i wanted to four hundred which is really nice as well. It's a smaller than most hundred four hundred. Such a good option for people who don't want to put down the money for like the first party brands like a sony per se and get something because sigma glenn's quality has been really good to ever since they did the global vision line so and i'm looking forward to see what else comes out in the future so i remember when we spoke to you In the summer. Kevin you mentioned the the pentax eighty five millimeter F one four And i put that on my list as well as a pretty interesting lens for this year and believe it coming out with. I think they did announce development on camera so which is obviously a dsl. Are the only company who hasn't come out. What have mirrorless beckmann today. They're one of the few brands who are stubbornly dsl. Only so. I find that interesting. I hope that that works for them. Help find that niche. And in you know. Texans and others jumped to him i mean. I'm always curious. And every time. I use the pentax dsl. I love it. I can consider jumping over but not sure it's worth the investment. They're very very well made. They have civilization side of it there. They're sealed very well. It's i mean honestly they should just come out with a film camera. You're joking about you know it's funny. Taxes like olympus. We told you earlier about they pack so much into the cameras. Okay and pentax the same way i. I've handled you know more than a few of their flagship cameras. And even second to your cameras and it's always a great experience. The pictures are always wonderful. The glasses really really good Yeah and it's again. It's a matter of branding and stuff like that. And it's so hard to hit or miss and you got to like hit it and pentax use it love it. I mean when you think about a pentax has said the legacy of the name when you think about two cameras to get started with in the film industry in film candidate one an appendix k one thousand yup and they have that that's foundation of people who were buying like me. I have thousand myself. And it's just a these lenses. Look out there and the sec is great. But what about two thousand and twenty. What i am getting beat a little bit but yeah but culturally. I'm not even joking. With the full frame camera. I would like to see companies. come film. film isn't dead. No not now. Just check the price of usd film cameras and you'll know it's not dead. You know it used by film cameras by the pound now. No clean film camera that going for more than they did. Originally and no one's making many more contacts cameras. That's going to be our big story for this episode in twenty twenty one. The return of film cameras from the major manufacturers could be interesting okay. That's a lot of territory of anybody. Have any last thoughts here. john kevin. Well i say for twenty twenty. It's been no. It's been a hard year for a lot of people but the camera industry still kept on moving. We had a lot of nice cameras this year. Canon sony nikon panasonic every brand contributed. And it's interesting. What twenty twenty one brings when it comes down to it. Because i mentioned it before but now you're going to have the software with like ai in it so we'll see what that brings a. Yeah no i. I think he's actually been turned out to be pretty good year for the cameras. That have come out. I thought you know in may we would be saying something like this but But there are a lot of options and i think we did touch on some of the big picture Conversations about you know high megapixel cameras of course problems with distribution of covid and firmware. Think which is also an important point that kevin brought up the fact that you know you may buy a camera today but it could be a different camera. you know next year so No i i think it's been an interesting year and i'm looking forward to checking out some of the models that That we've spoken about And i hope to one day get that like acute to monochrome. We'll see you'd love it more or less left for me and then we're going to sign out of here and that is that You know One of my big takeaways in this year is that Getting back to black and white with with the monochrome firs lean years. I was like ninety nine percent collar. And i started in black and white and i rediscovered and it's really just giving me just a wonderful creative boost are really Relish going out with a camera once again More than usual And it's just like rediscovering things and that's always a cool thing about photography's is always something that gets you to rediscover. What's gone on and as the fun. Part of life kevin. Thank you once again for joining us. Today it's always great having you on the show and Hopefully we'll do this again next year and the year after year after And hope to have you back with the more insight to the pleasure. Thanks for having me and seeing twenty twenty one. We should lindy well as they say. Okay if you'd like to get a heads up the moment. A new being aged photography podcast goes live. It is so easy head on over to wherever you snag. Your podcast type. B an percent h photography podcast into the search field. You're part of the family. You can also find on the beach explorer website and on the h. photography podcast facebook group. According to my driver's license my name is alan whites and on behalf of john harrison. Jason tables thank you so much for tuning in to day.

Nikon fuji thirty five millimeter sony canon ten bit kevin Fuji nikon canon twenty three millimeter twelve thousand dollar kodak twenty eight millimeter olympus Alan white thirty six millimeter eight bit ten bits timothy kohler jay peg
Ep. 870 - God, Country, and My Pillow

The Andrew Klavan Show

47:37 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 870 - God, Country, and My Pillow

"Many working women forced to stay home during the current crisis have discovered they have children. These children need to be cared for that an educated and our pain in the neck and many other ways as well so as a public service. I'm offering my personally made up suggestions on how to Home School your child i. You may find that having been sent home from public schools. You're five and six. Year olds are no longer receiving important lessons in such subjects as gender fluidity and how white people kill the Indians. You might want to use the time they would have been studying these subjects to teach them equally useful activities like soaking Kleenex toilet water. And then hurling it at your little sister if you want to add an educational aspect of this you can pretend little sisters and Indian who is instantly going about the business of burning down her brother's log cabin when he hurled the soaking Kleenex and then cruelly laughed at her before taking all their empty land and building New York on it. Here's another helpful in some public. Schools have introduced newfangled teaching methods. Like drugging your son into semi consciousness with Ritalin and calling the police when he makes a finger gun. If you're not up on these ultra modern techniques you might want to replace them with more tried and true public school practices like flogging an exorcism and finally you may occasionally over here your child praying to God to let the quarantine lasts forever. So Mommy doesn't go back to work and leave him alone again. If this happens. Take your child aside and gently explain. There is no God and if there is even thinks about granting that prayer you will burn his house down and make sure God knows. It's all your child's fault until your child to quarantine is over and you're going back to work and hide in the bathroom for the next eight hours or until the kid moves in with your ex trick or Clayton and this is the Andrew Klavan show shaped Thompson. He's so wonderful Who was just plain mean and many of you are writing into complain. I'm a fan of the espionage thriller novels of Daniel Silva He writes a series about an Israeli assassinate goes around bumping off people who've oppress Jews and since everybody kind of takes the license to kill to a whole new level the civil book I'm reading now includes a description of the diners at fashionable Washington. Dc restaurant it says quote. It's well heeled clientele were members in good standing of Washington's ruling elite lawyers lobbyists journalists diplomats and intellectuals from the city's most promised prominent policy shops and think tanks most were Democrats and leftward-leaning they were globalist environmentalists and supporters of reproductive rights. Unrestricted immigration universal healthcare robust gun control and guaranteed basic income for those at the bottom of the economic ladder unquote. Now I strongly suspect. That's a very accurate description of the DC elite. I don't think Silva's attacking them. I think he's just describing and it explains a whole lot about the reaction to Donald Trump. One of the things that goes with being a ruling elite is a certainty constantly confirmed by everyone. You know that you are basically right not right about every little thing but right in your general view of the world. It's more about clash than facts or logic. The things you think are the things people like you think and people like you were the best people. Just ask other people like you. Trump is committed the sin against these people have being right while not being one of them. He certainly right about abortion and unrestricted immigration. And I agree with him wholeheartedly on gun control but the big revelation for me is globalism. I always had a problem with globalism because it put Americans out of work and I was never totally comfortable with my right wing friends who shrugged at that and talked about how at least the unemployed got cheaper iphones and if their communities fell apart they could just move but until this pandemic it never occurred to me that the moral errors of globalism go much much deeper. Globalism lifts the world's economy and help the world's poorest by moving jobs at once belong to the American working class to hell holes with poor can be underpaid and save us money in doing this. It empowers the worst nations on earth by putting the production of supplies. We need in their hands even if they hate us. It's like the UN only with slave labor delivering big profits for rich people like free trade. I like helping poor people. But that's not enough to keep the world working. Well the world is not a marketplace with countries competing as businesses because some countries like China are run by evil people who want to destroy everything that is good including us to get the right global mix. We need free trade helping poor people and one more thing. We need to put America and America's workers first so that the good guys maintain the upper hand at all times. Trump was completely right about this and the elite were are completely wrong and so. I'm going to sit here and hold my breath until the elite apologize trump and change their minds all right. I'm not GONNA do that. We'll talk more a lot more about this but first let's talk about rock auto dot com. Why because I love saying rock auto dot com and because if you need a car part you're not going to go into the store right now and talk to a guy behind. The computer is not only sneezing on you but also doesn't know any more about car parts than you do. You can get it just as easily by GOING ON IRAQ AUTO DOT COM. Plus you get to say or ROCK AUTO DOT COM which is worse the price of his mission. Which isn't bad because rock auto dot com always as good prices on their spare parts. Rocco DOT COM catalog is unique remarkably easy to navigate ROCCO DOT COM. Everything you need from things I've never heard of debris parts motor oil and even new carpet whether it's for your classic car or for the car drive around in every day and get everything you need. In a few easy clicks while Sane Auto Dot Com. They always offer the lowest prices possible. They don't change the prices according to the market so go to Rocco Dot com right now and see all the parts available for your car or truck and right Clayton in there. How did you hear about US box? So they know essentially also write it in their boxes. Says how do you spell Klavan there are? There are no es in Cleveland. I just I really just make it. Look easy it's hard to believe so I gotTa tell you it is rare. It is rare that I get bemused by our friends in the elite leftist media speaking of elites. But yesterday I gotTa Tell You. It was amazing. Trump held his daily briefing. The press hates these briefings because they're making more popular because people can see that he's doing the right thing and he's got the the private sector mobilizing is because we have such a good private sector that we can get this all these people mobilized they're making masks and You Know Three. M is is Ramping up production for respirators and all these different companies are ramping up. Production of things. We need and he brings on. The trump brings on to speak the my pillow guy. Mike Lindell you've probably seen him on. Tv and he talks about the fact that he's retooling his pillow. Factories is cut nine. Given our current business lines we are experience the effects of this pandemic firsthand but my pillow is done with established an internal task force which is monitoring future needs of companies across the country as a result of this pandemic and given our position we begun to research and develop new protocols to address the current and future needs of US businesses across multiple sectors. How companies are going to prepare themselves when they once again opened up and and changes to their current operations in order to adjust to future threats. Piane dimick's my pillow has designated some of his call center to help companies navigate. The many issues that resulted from this pandemic. We've we've done a kid. Seventy five percent of my manufacturing to produce cotton face bounce up to seven three days. I was up to ten thousand a day by Friday. I'm going to be up to fifty thousand a day. Seventy five percent of this factories producing facemask which we need which they now know that before. They said they don't help now. They know they do help. And then my pillow guy went off and said this. Thank you Mr President for your call to action which has empowered companies like my pillow to help our nation win this invisible or I wrote off the cops. God gave us grace on November. Two Thousand Sixteen to change. The course we were on God had been taken out of our schools lives a nation to turn his back on God. And I encourage you to use this time at home to get to home to get back in the word. Read our bibles and spend time with our families. Our president gave us so much. Hope we're just a few short months ago. We had the best economy the lowest unemployment wages going up. It was amazing with our great President Vice President and this administration are all the great people in this country praying daily we will get through this and get back to a place that stronger and safer than ever. Oh my Lord. The left went nuts. He got the free market. You got praising trump and you got praising God I tore it all over the place Joy Reid Oh my tiger king binge was interrupted by texting the CIO CEO of. My pillow is now part of the presidential briefings. Please tell me this is a prank the Palmer report. American hospitals have refrigerator trucks full of dead bodies parked around back by the shore. Let's hear from the my pillow. John just rage the choking on the acid of atrial stuff. Look I know the guy from Adam? I don't have a mypillow but who do you think who do you think is speaking more to Americans in that moment who really who is talking to Americans and who is talking to the people who are dining in that Washington. Dc elite restaurant. You guess all right. Let's Talk. Let us talk though about the actual things that are going on in the world. I I you know there are some things that just really make your mind spin around. Even though you've seen a million times yesterday the other thing that people went nuts about yesterday were cheese. New estimates of how many people may die and I played the clip yesterday. So I won't play it again but it was found she. I explain this about. I'm learning about this. I'm learning about computer models right and he put a computer model on Monday. There's one disease on Tuesday this to disease diseases in the computer model says Oh the diseases doubling so within twenty days. It's going to be a gazillion people. Right that's what the computer model does and then sees oh now fifteen days later and that didn't happen so you put in some more data and you put in some assumptions. And they're all humans options and they're not computers. Don't make assumptions. Only humans make assumptions. So they're putting assumptions and they put anything gets closer to what's happening now. Computer models don't predict the future they predict yesterday. That's why that's why you have goof-balls like Ao. See saying like Oh we're all GonNa die in twelve days because the computer models sees a trend extrapolates on that trend in yes. Scientists do put in information hoping to get a closer idea. But it's just a guess it's all against and what was amazing to me was the Thao she said that he said. I don't want to be held to this. This is what the computer models are saying a tenth right. This is a tenth what he said. One hundred to two hundred thousand which worst case scenario is a tenth of the two point. Five million less than the two point five million. There were predicting originally so it. Dropped by nine tenths so everybody should be saying. Oh Look Donald Trump. He saved everybody's lives. He saved these million lives right because now he's just going to be two hundred thousand but instead it's true refrigerator trucks filled with bodies. Look the I'm sure they have to put bodies somewhere so far and this is going to go up and I'm not belittling this so far something like thirty. Five hundred people have died which is under two days of heart attacks right. So I mean it's coronary disease at least so. I'm not saying it's not going to be terrible. And that's those are just those are just the estimates and my friend. Who's explained all this to me had estimates that were much lower than that and there's no reason to think that the worst case scenario is going to be the case but everyone went nuts and it's all because of Donald Trump and we played Pelosi saying Donald Trump fiddled while people died. And all this stuff and it's just not true first of all a clam Clayton Mitchell at. The federal has a time line of things that happened and basically points out that on January seventeenth. Cdc in the Department of Homeland Security announcing American citizens returning from travel restricted countries will be rerouted to specific airports where there'd be screened an isolated and by January twenty first the first case of Corona virus appeared in the US the CDC confirmed the second case on January twenty fourth and to the risk to Americans remain low. There's the CDC right this is the CDC and everybody keeps quoting trump. Saying it's not a problem. It's not a problem but the point is this with the. Cdc was telling him so when he listens to the experts and extends the stay at home recommendation from the federal government. Then he's wonderful trump because he listened to the experts but when he listened to the experts saying the risk was low then he's bad trump because the experts got it wrong. It is an amazing amazing way to look at the news. Plus trump does. You've the on. By the way the World Health Organization is praising China for their speed and openness and dealing with the virus and then trump shuts down the borders when he does that Joe Biden says. No that's terrible things xenophobic. Don't shut down the borders that has been even found. She says that saved a lot lives that he did this. So trump obviously. Whenever he gets tacked he hits back. Let's let's play trump hitting back at Pelosi for what she said chanting. She's a sick puppy in my opinion. Really as you got a lot of problems and that's a horrible thing to say especially when I was the one and I've gotten from fair people a lot accolades and I don't want the accolades but it. It's just in terms of effect when I stopped all very some very very infected very very sick people thousands coming in from China long earlier than anybody thought including the experts. Nobody thought we should do it. Except me and I stopped everybody. We stopped it. Cold had never been done before the history of our country and Dr Chee said the other day if those people came in if they. If I didn't do that you would have had Deaths like you never seen before and you know. She doesn't mention that that was early. And trump is a thin skin and maybe he shouldn't hit back every time but listen you know the world. Health Organization was praising China and covering for China. The media was what were so so worried. We were calling this. The Chinese virus. Nancy Pelosi was out in Chinatown. Saint come to Chinatown everybody. Come join me in Chinatown. And all they do is they. Hit a trump and the rollout of masks mostly because of the CDC in the FDA not because of trump with the roll out of Massachusetts. Slow and that masked. I'm sorry the rule out of tests was slow and that has been a damaging problem. And that's why it's good that the private sector is now coming in and doing stuff but the thing is it's a disaster disaster it's an unexpected event. It's an unexpected event and people make mistakes so I feel like every week. I read a little bit of the column from Walter Russell Mead because he just writes such a Good Call Wall Street Journal. I'm GonNa read all just a little bit of this because it's worth pointing out. He makes an excellent excellent point. He says certainly and remember meat is no lover of trumpy. Hit some hard when he hits them. Certainly the initial. Us response was flawed. The trump administration and local and state officials should have made much better use of the time gained by President Trump's much criticized but now universally imitated corona virus travel bans. The time could have been used to get the country in substantially better shape for testing and treatment and an earlier adoption of strict. Social Distance. Protocol would have impeded the spread of the virus significantly reduce the projected death-toll. You should mention that would have happened. If the president were Merlin. The president could see and do and know all which he can't he can't do it. He said he says this. It's much too soon to say that America is failing a historic test. What is being greeted against thanks to bad strategic and operational decisions in one thousand nine hundred eighty one? Us Pacific forces were sitting ducks when war broke out except mercifully for its aircraft carriers. The Pacific fleet was concentrated poorly guarded in Pearl Harbor. This was followed by debacle in the Philippines. They made these things made the war longer and bloodier than it would otherwise have been but victory came in the end the civil war world war and even the Cold War saw similar pattern affect looseness and confusion in the early stages. I said this a long time. That's how I know. Wealth Russell need is so intelligent because he says things that I said weeks later Dan. Hugh thing is what you know remember. Fdr said we have nothing to fear during the depression. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Can You Imagine Jim? Acosta sitting there going Mr President. You said we had nothing to fear you play down the depression. No that's not the way it works. That's not the way it works and the people get this see. This is the thing the American. The elite. Don't get this because they're so ticked off trump for being right about all the other stuff about the borders and about abortion and mostly about globalism which was making them rich which was making them rich. Right off the work of like little. Chinese slave workers while it was giving China control of products that we need. They're so angry at him for being right while they're while not being one of them. It's an ultimate sin. You can be right while you're one of them but you'd be right when you're not one of the no even being and being wrong of course when you're one of them is even when you're not one of them is even worse but the people are judging trump against the world they are judging trump against other places and how they're dealing with that the mainstream media still reporting. China's numbers as if they're real. They're not they're judging them against the elites. Who would have opened the borders left? The borders open who sent our jobs overseas in the first place who tangled US Aghanistan for twenty years while appeasing China and Iran. I mean these guys and Daniel Silva's restaurant and again Silva's not attacking them. I am these guys. Have nothing to brag about. They have nothing to say A. We did this right while you did it wrong. They have nothing to hit trump on really they really don't it is not. The trump doesn't make mistakes. I mean this is a stupid metric a stupid metric who survives the metric of making mistakes. It's that he's doing a good job. He's trying to get it right. He's bringing in the private sector. They follow him. They'll do what he says what he asked him to do. Because he's been good to them and the elites have gotten just about everything wrong not just over the over the Obama Administration but for the last twenty years they need the shakeup. They need trump. All right ring. I'm not letting anybody in but I still want to talk to them. Not Letting anybody in my house. We the first priority in this current crisis is to save the KLAVAN. That is why nobody can come into my house. I do WanNa talk to him and you can talk to people with your ring doorbell with ring. Doorbell. You are connected to your home no matter where you are and where are you your home here at home? But you're not opening the door so you want to talk to people through your ring doorbell. New also want security during this time and ring will also give you Things like a sensor that will turn on floodlights when somebody comes on ring detects motion when people come onto your property rings video doorbells let you answer the door and check in from your home anytime anywhere namely home. Because that's where you're going to be a package delivery surprise visitor. You can tell them to get away by using your doorbell. Get a special offer on the ring. Welcome Kit when you go to ring dot com slash Clayton. The welcome kit includes the ring video doorbell to and chime pro. We I have the doorbell to which is really good. It's all you need to start building custom security for your home today. Just go to ring dot com slash. Cliven that's ring dot com slash clave because even in this crisis. No one should be allowed in your home unless he knows how to spell. Cleveland Artist K. L. A. V. A. N. The easy part all comes from me so that meanwhile we have two. Everybody says we don't WanNA talk about politics. But of course it's all political. Everything is political. There's no sense in blaming trump for for being a political guy when everybody is being politicalness specially especially on news media. Nba NBC is very worried. About what is happening to. Joe Biden's campaign. We're all very worried about JOE BY I. I WANNA play the NBC. The today show clip that we have that I should be yes Seventeen Corona virus pandemic has temporarily transformed nearly every aspect of American life including the race for the White House. Virtual campaigning is now the new norm for Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden and with President Trump. Seizing the National Spotlight Day. By Day from the White House the Democratic candidates have had to find new ways to connect with voters. So so this is one of the reasons by the way you heard you can hear the voice. Donald trump is seizing the White House. These briefings he's later says these briefings or his new rally and this is why you're getting don lemon saying stuff like this. I'm not actually sure if you want to be honest that we carry that live. I think we should run snippets. I think we should do it afterwards. And get the pertinent points to the American people. Because he's never ever going to tell you the truth it's obvious it's transparent to me. This has become those press. Briefings have become his new apprentice. They become his new rallies and he treats the press and the media as if he's talking to the people in his rallies it's the same thing it's no different. It's the audience is not there. Well the audience is there. It's getting huge ratings as trump is bragging about by the way. He's talking to Chris Cuomo. There has just been diagnosed positive with the virus and I hope he gets well soon. I always like ragging on Chris. Cuomo eighteen interrupted them to pray for the guy. But I will ask so Chris get well soon so I can go back the ragging on now. I really hope he gets well. It's a sad news so MSNBC has Joe Biden on and asking the question that's on everybody is mind over the last two weeks or so. I've had a lot of people. Ask Me Online every single day. Where is Joe Biden as a candidate for president? Are you making yourself visible enough especially during this crisis because it is a fine line to walk you certainly want to be seen as the candidate who has politicizing a pandemic when Americans face this crisis everything I have done has been designed to be constructed? You may recall. I was the first one to call for the president way back in January. Seventeen to take this seriously of real serious crisis coming in article I wrote. I talked about doing the defense production act before anyone came along. I put together a group of people who are outside experts. Who Don't don't adhere to any party. They've served for four different presidents to say. What do we need to do now? I've been on the phone so the best I can do from my position is to lay out what I think should be done. You don't know what you're taught. Wait a minute give. Give them chance to explain. All of America is asking. Where is Joe Biden? Where is Joe Biden? So what would he do here? He is explaining it. Cut to listen to this very closely so we know how to behave during this crisis and in order to avoid that those very high numbers we have to do at least several things one. We have to depend on what the president's going to do right now and first of all he has to tell. Wait till the cases before anything happens. Look the whole idea is he's got to get him. Placed things that were shortages of. I'm Joe Biden and I have this message. You were taking notes because you WanNa remember whatever you WanNa forget it because some day it may who knows. Maybe you'll hold it up to the lighter hold a match under it and it will come clear what the hell he's talking about. Ww Jabe what would you? What would Joe Biden do unbelievable? I mean this is a this is a disaster for the Democrats and I know there are these polls Angel Biden trump here and he beats trump. There I don't believe I don't believe a word of it. The enthusiasm gap themes Yasim for Joe. Biden is like at twenty five percent. So that's a lot of Democrats answering those polls going. Y'All vote for Joe Biden. On the day they're going to be like it wouldn't be such a bad thing if maybe my car's broken. Don't vote for Joe Biden. They're all hoping Andrew Cuomo will take his place. We'll talk more about Cuomo as the week goes on some of the stuff about him because he's just the only reason they love him because they don't know him. Meanwhile meanwhile this other thing is happening is is these accusations against Biden for sexual malfeasance and there are a lot of them you know. They're not just one but the wo- The worst one. So far is this woman terror. We read a writer. A former staffer worked with Biden. When he was a senator in Delaware she's talking about nineteen ninety-three but remember you know Biden one hundred fifty two so in one thousand nine hundred three was still ninety seven years. I'm not doing the math in my head but but anyway I mean this is. This is not a young man. This is a grown man and this is what Tara Reid says. He deter semi private police whether he was talking to someone they went away and then he said here and then when I gave her the Tim Bazan happens all in one moton amongst and he had me Against the wall and then his hands were down my skirt and up. My skirt and I was wearing I wasn't wearing in mean than with his hand From there and I answered being within and ask you insist me and seeing the so when I tell you what happened this card because once they're eighth mental so you know that that's pretty bad the most of the other ones are things like. He rubbed his hand down meals stuff. We see Joe Biden doing to people making women feel very very uncomfortable and I talked about this during the cavenaugh thing when you're a young man especially like sixteen seventeen virtually. It's very hard to control the hormones going through. I'm not making excuses for anybody but I would go back. Then when I talked about Cavanaugh I said I really don't care if he did something wrong. As long as it wasn't rape or criminal when he was a kid I know is a kid things that I I certainly regret. I grew up. You know. This is a grown man. I grew up. What is once? Why do these guys skip that stage of growing up so my problem here is not? What the accuracy. I don't know if they're true or not. I'm not convicting the guy at all. My problem is the way the press covers. Okay our friends at R. C. Have been put together a montage of how they covered cavanaugh before Blazey. Ford testified here that that montage with music. He's the type of person who could be vile and he lies about that and he lies about whether or not he got the documents and he's lied about what he's done to these other women and he's a liar really big red and this is just the latest one. I don't think we're takes women's pain very seriously having simply referred to ends the Accuser Cavanaugh. I Live Multiple Times having off. Potentially lying and that to me is disqualified. This is not a court of law right so this doesn't need to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. We use credibly accuse. Authoritatively accused credibly accused of sexual assault involving teeth. GonNa believe she's being bullied into showing up four or five days after this letter is leaked to be questioned by you Evan. White Myth had white men. Ten white men white men back all white men. I've seen her aggressive. Doctors questioned. Why not pull the nomination? All the nominations have an is quite overcooked. So that's pretty incredible. I said it at the time. It was pretty incredible. I thought if the election had taken place right after this trump would have the the midterm election from the Republicans would have won by a landslide. But there was of course all the time between for trump to stick his foot in his mouth and he did. But here's how they cover Biden's these accusations against Biden and these women are coming forward saying they uncomfortable with. Here's other covering that. We're still weeks away. From Biden's anticipated entry into the presidential race and the accusation made over the weekend speaks to a part of his behavior that some harmless but that is accuser says deserves more scrutiny as the immediate front runner. He's going to expect a lot of scrutiny. Especially as standards from what used to be. Acceptable interactions have changed for a lot of women in this me. Too era and fighting back former vice president Joe Biden respond to those accusations of inappropriate affection by the woman who says he kissed her head been invaded her space campaign event. Now the women coming to his defense now again. I'm not actually accusing Joe Biden or condemning him or saying they're wrong and I'm perfectly willing to to think that maybe they misinterpreted it needs a handsome guy and he didn't realize that that the woman Tara Reid that he needs to explain but but maybe it did not. I don't know I don't know some people are hitting the right wing and they're saying oh well you didn't cover the CAVENAUGH STORY. But now you're all on top of this. But that's a lie. That's a false equivalence. We did cover it. I did cover it. All I said was the guy deserved. I said two things one I care about. I didn't care about the actual charge but the other thing I said. The Guy deserves due process. He deserves due process in this case. With the exception of of terror. Read the other things. No would I not vote for a guy because he did those things. I think they're sloppy. I think they're Borscht. I think they're bad but I would not vote for somebody. I supported otherwise because of those things. But I'm not accusing him. I'm accusing the news media. I'm accusing the news media for the difference. In the way they cover these things because it undermines everything they say it means everything they say is a lie. It means everything they say is political women's rights gays rights blacks rights as all of they don't care about any of it they don't care about any of it about one big thing power all right. Don't let us talk about the Benham brothers. I was talking to the bench. I've met the Benham brothers. They are great. Carry guys and you know I I will tell you something else they were they had a TV show that they were going to have a reality TV show on HDTV and because of their very conservative religious principles the left went after them got threatened to go after all HDTV's sponsors and they were dumped these guys who stand up for what they believe they have integrity and they're also just really really decent guys and now they have constructed a way of building building businesses so that the business doesn't consume your life and I know all about this because my business has certainly consumed my life but I have tried very hard not to let it detract from my family and not to let it detract from the things that make life worth living and the Benham Brothers No. This is a troubling time. They know this is a difficult time and so they're tailoring their videos to speak to you to speak to business people in this tough time about how to keep your business alive how to pivot and make decisions when things change the way. They're changing now but also not to be completely consumed by all the things that you have to do. Then brothers have over a dozen businesses including a real estate empire that spans over thirty five states and they didn't sell their soul for it and they want to teach you how to do the same kinds of things just this week. Ben Brothers launched their new course expert ownership. It's the model. They've used to build each one of their businesses. With the you are sick of the nine to five or have a ten year old business expert. Ownership can help you achieve your goals to celebrate the launch of their new. Course they're offering fifteen percent off to new members. You can check out a preview of the course and take advantage of that discount over a Benham brothers dot com slash cliven. That's B. N. H. A. M. BROTHERS DOT COM SLASH CLEVELAND. Head over there to check out the course remember there is an e. Benham that there is no easy. Nowy in Clayton Kershaw. I just said that you don't. You don't have to repeat everything I said all access I will be on on Thursday. The other guys are GonNa go going to be on all week. It's at eight. Pm Eastern Five Pacific as a relaxed setting where we just talk to you and communicate with you and if you were a subscriber you can send US questions does greetings. We love talking to you. I love talking to you. I really love hearing hearing from you and communicating with you and listen. We're all isolated. We're all indoors so it's nice to get together and do this. This was intended originally for all access members the highest level of membership but during this time of isolation. We've opened it up to all our members and in doing so we've accelerated the launch. Please let us know what you think of it and please come on and talk to us again. I just love hearing from people if you're around the eight. Pm Eastern Five Pacific Tonight. Join us on the all access live show over a daily wire dot com. And if they're on Thursday I will be there as well. We gotta say goodbye to facebook and youtube come to daily wire dot com I forgot to Provo the mailbag my Lord my Lord and subscribe scream like that and then hit daily wire dot com. Hit The podcast button at the Andrew. Klavan podcast is a picture of a male back. Hit that and you can ask me about anything you want. You can ask me about religion. You can ask me about your personal problems. You can ask me about politics. All my answers are guaranteed a hundred percent. Correct you're getting your money's worth and they will change your life. Will they change your life for the better? You'RE GONNA have to tune in to find out come on over to wire dot com and subscribe and get your questions into the mailbox All right I want to return to this idea of globalism and the elite and and really you know I'm not I'm not making a sweeping statement are we shouldn't have global trade. We shouldn't have free trade but I got in these arguments with a lot of conservatives at the time where I said you know we can. Our country comes first and we cannot have communities falling apart and the thing the thing about capitalism is just like every other ism it is just like every other ism capitalism is great. It's really helpful. It's Free Free. Enterprise which is not even an ISM in a way but but still you can't get so attached to any system that you forget the things that matter most your neighbors newman beans human good your country freedom which this country represents and defends without this country you think the world would be free without our first amendment. Do you think other people would protect free speech? They already go after free speech everywhere but here. It's only here where we have the written down. First Amendment in the Constitution and tradition of free speech. We are defending. We defend freedom around the world and let me tell you this before. People always start to argue with me but then they think about it and they realize I'm right. There's not a single person male or female walking the earth who is politically free. Who DOES NOT? Oh that freedom to some degree to American treasure and blood not one single person so we count we matter. We have to take care of ourselves first. We have to make sure just like when the bag drops in an airplane. They say put on your reader. I so then you can help other people. We have to keep America going and the thing is again. I'm not trying to get rid of free. Trade I'm not trying to deny that it helps the poor when they get American jobs in some of these countries but a lot of these countries I we have to take care of ourselves first and then we can take care of other people just like in the airplane and like. I think that this is an important thing. The trump got and the elites. Don't get the elites. Don't feel it because they're making a lot of money off globalism. It works for them. That's why I get so angry. I nearly injury Yang Zig a good guy but I get so angry when they talk about this universal income universal guaranteed income. Because basically saying. Oh you don't need a job you don't need meaning in your life. You don't need purpose in your life. You don't need the respect of your family for being a breadwinner. You don't need any of those things. Here's a thousand dollars. Go away leave us alone while we get fantastic. Lee wealthy fantastically wealthy selling iphones that were made by slaves in China. That is not a good system and I'm sorry as a conservative as a conservative person. I know the conservative values are held together by community. Conservative values do not exist in a vacuum. I you know when I started the show I I used to say. I'm an individualist. And even as I was saying that I was having conversations behind the scenes broke saying you know. Individualism is not quite the right word. It is not quite what I believe in because I believe. We're all connected. I know we're all connected and I I know all Christians are part of the body of Christ. Anybody can be part of the body of Christ just by saying the word which means we are all linked together. No Man is an island and so it's not we can't just say Oh. If your community falls you know go off and move. That's what the original settlers did regional settler days are over there over where now a modern advanced technological civilization when your community falls apart everything falls apart. We cannot have a country like this. We cannot have the American country the cells the American dream where so many people are committing suicide. Because they're out of work. Which is what happened during the Obama Years. So many people commit suicide because they're out of work that the life expectancy is going down cannot be that turned around that turned around under trump. And it's going to take a hit. We're GONNA take a hit with this current downturn. But we'll tell you I'm GonNa Pause and what I'm saying just to put in this little go off. Go off the rails a little bit here. You just talk about the economy. Everybody is predicting what a terrible terrible depression this is going to be. I'm not making any predictions but I think that those predictions just like the predictions of worst case scenarios and sickness. I think those predictions are coming too soon. One of the things that happened after world. War Two is America's sword. Why because all the competition had been destroyed right? Europe was gone basically was in rubble so American. The American economy soar after World War Two. There's everybody's economy has stopped. Economics is a competitive business right. I think that when this comes back we're going start competing again. There was nothing wrong underlying the economy except for our debt. I think we're going to start competing again. I think the economy is gonNA come back stronger than people think it is. But that's just me know the future anymore than anybody else but my point. Is this my point to go back to the original point that when we talk about America I it turned out to be the right thing? It sounded bad. They kept saying. Oh it's just like Charles Lindbergh supporting the Nazis and all this. It wasn't Victor Davis. Hanson has a piece at American greatness. And Vic I know Victor Davis Hanson smart because he keeps saying the same things I do too and he speaks Greek as well. I only sound like I'm speaking. Vh says certainly candidate and then president. Trump's strident distrust of China was annoying to the American establishment the left saw China in rosy terms as the other. The just did things like airports high-speed rail and solar panels better than did America's establishment of geriatric white male has been so many on the right saw China as a cash cow. That was going to take over anyway. So why not? Milk it before the deluge in some conventional Washington wisdom assume that a pre appeasing the commercial banditry in an ascendant China at best might ensure that its new riches led to westernize political liberalization and at worst might at least earn them. A PAT on the head from China as insidiously assumed. It's faded role as global hegemony. I know victor is right about this because I have these conversations at many dinner tables with many people who I would consider part of the elite where they would say what China's going to be the next big thing and China's going to rule the world and there's no stopping China and I would say. I don't know you know it's hard to have a free economy when you kill your people when they criticize you and that's what's happening now with the people who are criticizing the Chinese Chinese flu responds are vanishing. And it's hard to have you know it's hard to have people come forward with a new idea like we do in America where somebody says. Oh I'm going to start making pillows you know. These are going to be the best pillows and that'll make me a millionaire. It's hard to come forward with new idea when you afraid you might get shop okay and I think that that those things that China has have done. China has done in terms of not telling us what was happening in terms of line about the number of deaths and illnesses. They were having in terms of getting rid of all the whistle blowers in terms of sending out faulty equipment and Balti masks and faulty testing devices. To their their people has reminded us of something. America is unique in a lot of ways but one of the ways is unique is that it has become a massive massive world power without becoming an empire and a lot of people especially before nine eleven. A lot of people used to talk about oil. America really isn't empire it just doesn't admit it's an empire if you're selling coke in China than America's an empire it's an economic and part one though that's not an empire empire is when our troops come into your country and we install the government. That's an empire that doesn't happen. We don't do it even when we do it out of necessity like in Japan or in Iran. We leave after after we get a government. It's not GONNA kill people. We leave America's the first country ever to do that. Rome didn't do it. Britain didn't do it. Greece didn't do it. Other countries when they have achieved the world power that we have achieved have started to take over other countries and seriously become an empire now. We haven't done that but it creates new problems. You know people think things are either good or bad and that's just not true things that are good create bad problems things that are bad. Have good results. It's just the way of the world. It is a good thing. I think that we're not an imperial nation although I'm not sure that will last forever but it's it's true now. It's a good thing that we're not an imperial nation but it creates new problems and one of the problems that it creates is dealing with other countries. We are sometimes dealing with people who are evil on like us. We have evil people here. They're evil people everywhere but our government is good. Government is a free government it is still a government that has good principles as opposed to the Chinese government which is a bad government with evil principals the Iranian government a bad government with evil principles. That's why you don't deal with them on the same level and that's why you don't deal in such a way that it elevates their power to the level of yours that was what was wrong with. Obama's not just as Iran deal but with his entire world view is that he had no moral greeding because the left has gotten rid of the idea of morality because they think it's all relative because they think we're bigoted for looking down on other countries. They've gotten rid of the idea of morality and you cannot do that and let the world and have the world remain free. You can't do it because the good guys have got to win all right. Final reflection speaking of this Things to watch. I'm talking about a lot of stuff to wash. One of the things I really am enjoying is Babylon Berlin. German show on Netflix. I've talked about it before because I watched the first two series. Not the most expertly plotted thing. But I have to say this one thing about it is about the rise of the Nazis and y Mar Germany. And it's just a mystery story. A cool little mystery entangled with all the politics and all the culture of why Germany which is just fascinating to watch. Also I love the two leads voelker Brooke and Leave Lisa freeze. She is absolutely gorgeous. She's such a Cutie Pie and Volker Bruch just has a wonderful Charisma at just terrific to watch them however never acted. Have to say this one thing. It's about time. Artists understood that our creatives understood. Nazis can be bad without communism being good right. The communism communist are not just lovely idealist. Sometimes get things wrong. That's an oppressive philosophy. It hides its oppressiveness underneath a Christian chess at something that sounds like Christian charity but it is just as oppressive in the end every single time as the Nazis just murderers every single time as the Nazis. It would be nice if we could have some artists with a bit of artistic breath and broad-mindedness who understand that plus on top of which one of the things they show you in Babylon Berlin. Is they show you a decadent? Why Mar Society of Free? Love and all kinds of different sexualities just running rampant being out in the open they might WanNa take into account whether that is pleasant. That's nice. It's nice to be tolerant. It's nice to have different ways as nice not to oppress people for the way they love one another that that that to might feed into a sense of chaos that makes people turn to dictatorial leaders. Chaos leads to dictatorship freedom so the worship of freedom the worship of freedom leads to chaos chaos leads to dictatorship. That's Plato is not a secret. People have known for thousands of years. Battling Berlin's a wonderfully entertaining show. You should watch it. It's lovely but it would be nice if our artists would get just a little bit more broad minded and stop repeating the garbage socialism. They learned in school. Mailbag is tomorrow. Get your questions in now. I will answer them in. All your problems will be solved. Not so some but all your problems will be solved right here on the Andrew Klavan show. I'm Andrew Claybon if you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe. And if you want to help spread the word. Give us a five star review and also to subscribe to were available on Apple. Podcast on spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts also be sure to check out the other daily wire podcast including the Ben Shapiro. Show Not Wall. Show and the Michael Null show. Thanks for listening. The Andrew Klavan show is produced by Robert Stirling and directed by Mike joyner executive producer. Jeremy Boring Technical Producer Austin Stevens and our supervising producer. His Mathis Glover Assistant Director Pavel Wisneski edited by Adam. Sigh of its audio mixed by Robin Sanderson Hair and makeup is by Jessica. Olvera animations are by Cynthia and Google Production Assistance Mckenna waters and Ryan love. The Andrew. Klavan show is a daily wire production copyright daily Wire Twenty Twenty Matt Wall show. It's not just another show about about politics. I think there are enough of those already out. There we talk about culture because culture drives politics and drives everything else so my main focus is our life family. Faith those are fundamental. And that's what this show is about. Hope you'll give it a listen.

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Episode 20: Viral Video Marketing with Christian Vedder

The Sale Ring

44:40 min | 2 years ago

Episode 20: Viral Video Marketing with Christian Vedder

"We'll give to the sale. Ring upon Jessop dedicating to real estate brokers agents and America's top auctioneers that keep them markets moving. Join your host, Sean, and Trina as they talk with most successful realtors, marketing, and technology experts, infrasturctures and influencers. These show is still voted to own industry professionals looking to up their game. And stay up to date. Welcome to the sale ring. Thanks for joining us on this episode of the sill ring podcast show. We've got our good friend I in better in the studio, Christian. How are you? I'm doing good. Thanks for having me on now. Thank you, MS train. How're you? I'm doing well thank you. Some Christian runs a company called very rural video marketing, my San that, right? Byron video marketing viral video marketing how long have you been in Kansas City you personally? Well, I grew up in Kansas City, Kansas City, south Kansas City, I'm Northland or now and but yeah, Kansas City in my entire life, except for a little bit time in the in the military, but primarily Kansas City, and I'll be Kansas City. I think for the for love it. U2. awesome. How long viral video marketing is that a company that you started recently has been around for a while, I started viral video marketing in two thousand thirteen did so after twenty what about that time? Twenty plus years in the radio business. So my background's in radio, then I in two thousand hundred remember not, we had a bit of a downturn in the economy, just a little in the real estate market. We'd saw something about that on news. I figured, you guys might know something about two thousand eight deal. So two thousand eight I was working radio. And you know there's there's not a radio station on every corner. But there is a school. So I went back to school in my teaching credentials. And then in two thousand eleven I started teaching school elementary school, actually went back to my school, Boone, element school in the centre school district and taught elementary special Ed in it really enjoyed that. So I taught there for three years, and then I started teaching part time as I. Transition to do my business, which is viral video marketing, I realized that I love teaching but also is a media guy. And so I wanted to do something I wanted to make a change Saul on opportunities in internet and online in video. So I did it when I wanted to be in video, but I wanted to bring a little more of a marketing perspective to it. So I, I wanted to become a video market. I saw that in two thousand six or two thousand seven YouTube came on. And in video was really popular online, people were engaging with video online. But this is the time when businesses they started doing video, but they were doing the video that they wanted to put everything they ever wanted to say into one video, the five minute the ten minute video, and I thought, well, maybe I can help these businesses have a little more thought in in how they could distribute their videos, or or or to devise their video. So I went to work in learning everything I could find about video marketing, which was not popular in Kansas City. The term marketing really hadn't resonated in Kansas City. Other places. So I like to say in being that I've talked to a lot of people really feel like I am Kansas City's first video marketer. I started the Kansas City's first video marketing agency video marketing, again not a word. There was video production companies. There's video offers, but not video barking three show when we were visiting your friends with Patrick McBride drone on demand of you done some work with Patrick, loosely, friends. That's. That's. Publicly is that what you're saying? I'm associated with them. There you go. Awesome. Let me to say Patrick arrive. I've met him a couple of years ago. But we I found out within minutes we found out we were both about the same age. I mean, literally, you know, I think he's born seventy I'm sixty nine we were Star Wars fans at the Saint. So we had the connection the Star Wars, because we were both like seven eight years old when Star Wars came out. Yeah. And then, you know he's got a flying camera and I'm using, you know, doing video so, yeah, we hit it, right. Off Star Wars geeks and videos, Patrick's Goodman, we've had him on this show before, and he spoke of you and, and of your business, very highly, so we appreciate you. Joining us in the studio Kansas City's been good to you. You've been here for how many years, you personally forty nine forty nine years. So you're Kansas City native. You said you were in the military. Tell me about that. Well, the majority of my military career was in the reserves both army, and eighty I did I did a stint in the, the Kansas national guard, but majority was the navy reserve. And in the military. I was a public affairs worked in the public affairs community public affairs officer in listed by back row or my, my specialty was mass communications photojournalism specialist. So I took pictures wrote stories, and I like to consider myself, a glorified troop supporter, because I got to tell the stories in take pictures until the stories of who I consider the real heroes. The ones that were doing the jobs that, you know, even though at the end I was a part of combat. Camera did not serve in combat trained for combat. But I've, I've met a lot of individuals who had served in combat or were put in harm's way. And, and it just really was a satisfying job, to be able to be in a position to tell their stories. That's why I really enjoyed my time serving in both the army national guard. The navy reserve because I got to meet a lot of real heroes until their stores. Very cool. I also spent a long stand in the reserves and Oklahoma in the national guard as filled are. Tillery instructor. So or card all month and go to Ford sale and blow the crap out of stuff down there. That was my release. That's, that's how I d compressed. And that was the other reason why military because especially the last three years, where I got to do combat camera, you got to do your camera stuff. But then you gotta go do a lot of small weapons training, absolutely shoot communicate, a lot of unaware the docs, thing that you would not do Joe civilian out here on the street. So it was an enlightening experience. Well, thank you for doing that. Thanks for your service you for your service. It was good times as we get into video marketing. And this is going to be a great educational podcast. Today's session and I'm excited about it because we're going to talk about a couple of different components from some tips or techniques from capturing, and you know best practices. If you will, when you're when you're shooting video for various reasons, the quality of the video SEO reasons on the back in, but then also about marketing, you know, maybe some of the platforms that we can launch videos out there and get just a little bit more of an advantage out of them. So as we get into that I'm going to be excited to kind of have your professional feedback on that. You're also in radio you told me that you spent some time or still spent some time in radio. Yes. Already gel. That was so the age of nineteen nineteen Eighty-nine got into radio did overnights at a radio station was interned. Who would the college was just taking the core classes and somehow got an internship. And that's what I really wanted. And that's that was my first experience into radio. I've covered the local sports scene for twenty five plus years. Still cover the chiefs, and the royals majority chiefs on Sirius XM NFL radio CBS sports radio, Fox Sports radio. So, yeah, I've done every job in a radio station from the vote op actually have mowed. The yard took out the trash that all that, and literally every job in every every job I enjoyed it in change the light bulb at the top of the tower. Did you actually got to learn about the, the, the transmitter? I really I manage the radio station in the nineties. I won't get invest investory. That's a whole another episode. But that job was a great experience. There was a GM, who was on his way out. He had been in radio for many years. And he said, I was twenty six at the time, and he says, you do not know how lucky you are to be the general manager of a radio station at twenty six and there was a gentleman who owned the radio station and won't name his name. He's no longer with us. But he reminded me of, Jesse from the dukes of hazzard. Jesse Inver piles. But he was a very wealthy. Think this, right? Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Denver pyle. He was very wealthy, uncle Jesse, and he owned oil and banks and cattle and radio stations and after some changes happen at a radio station I was elevated quickly. And it was just me over a couple years. We put some things in place that I will just say, change the radio map in history. I actually got two little lines in the history of radio. But a lot of pride because it was a great experience. And I feel like you know, it was a great learning experience. And so I was radio guy continued radio and disowned time until about two thousand eleven two thousand ten and two thousand ten but now video and videos always been with me too, because even in the nineties, I was doing Casey repertory theatre, and you incase see I wasn't a student KC filmed classes. There worked in their educational department and did some video there. So always headed. Interest in video. Hey cole. Absolutely long background and you've done a lot of things. So that's exciting. You know, I can relate to that from being from western Oklahoma side. Somebody asked me one day. They said, what are you doing Oklahoma? And I said, one of three things you either farm, you work for the prison system, or you work in the oil and gas industry and all three I trained horses for the department of corrections for about ten years, which, again, much like your radio management. That's a completely different show wanna bring show. You're listening to the sale ring, punt cast taking realestate induction to the next level. Solic- talk a little bit about kind of the focus of your company day to day activities projects. Maybe that'd be a great place. You know, just some examples of something that you have either just worked on or working on kind of how that plays out if somebody was doing gauge with you today. What's the expectation? Well, generally, when someone contacts me they wanted to get video mate, I will say the cool thing about my, my job, that there really is no typical day. It's kinda neat that you get to work with a lot of different clients lot of different backgrounds. So you get to learn a lot about a lot of different industries and things like that. And a lot of difference professionals with varying degrees of expertise and experience a, so you know, it really kinda helps you learn a lot from people. So there's opportunities to not only teach people, which I enjoy teaching as we talked about. But I learned so much from work with all these different professionals in different industries. So that's one thing I like about doing what I do, which is essentially viral video, Mark. Eating is a consultancy a video marketing consultancy. I also act as video producer, because my clients, they wanna a video produced. So I'm going to help them produce a video a lot of times, they maybe the done some in house video, and it didn't turn out quite as Crispin as professionals. They wanted to be they've seen other videos. They're like I want one like that. I try to help them get that video. That's high quality. That's engaging. And I talked to my clients about producing content. That's compelling not selling compelling overselling, because nobody wants to be sold anything online, the second that a consumer or a social media viewer or web visitor senses, they're being sold something. Then there's a disconnect, but they shut down real quick. One of those. But if you keep a compelling, and you keep it then you don't really need to do any sales because it selling itself at that point. Yes, which more meaningful to them, and then they're going to want more. They're going to want to interact with you more because now it's become more, there's a connection, so you can create that. Action and create compelling meaningful content in mentioned that I was a teacher and I see a lot of parallels between being teacher and having a background and education in marketing of because you have to keep the content in the classroom engaging as a marketer, or as a business that's doing engaging in marketing activities, you have to find a way to keep it meaningful and engaging. And when you do that, it becomes much more memorable. So meaning as memorable and teaching teaching not telling selling is not telling, but it has to be compelling. So has begun. Let me ask you along that same lines. What about timing? What about the length of the duration of videos, one to two minute versus five minute videos, because we've talked about that on this show before people's attention. Spans gotten really really there's just a lot of stuff in front of him. Get short attention spans anymore. Well, I think we have to do is look at ourselves as consumers, we really don't have, you know, a lot of patience or time we want things now. We even the microwaves are going to probably have to be replaced at some point, because you mean we're going to be going to be like Jetsons. You, it's going to be pushing button, and it comes out somewhere. So having said that, yes. Short content Odyssey's better. But really, there is no rhyme or reason because there might be a need for longer form content. I'm not going to spill out of stats, but there are, we know as people who gave marketing that thirty seconds, sixty seconds ninety seconds probably all, you know, optimal. When you get the two minutes, you risk the chance of losing your audience in that last part of your message that may be crucially that you really want them to hear. But then there are stats in whiskey I will quote whiskey because I part of the whiskey communicate community, which is whiskey is video hosting for business and I can talk to you about that, too. Okay. But when you get to the six minute Mark longer form videos, from six to twelve minutes if you can get him to six minutes if the content is going to be that long, then they'll probably stay. Yeah. Into in six minutes. You is your biggest chance of losing your audience. What you're say. Right. When you talking about five six plus minute videos, is this property real estate auction videos? Or we talking more about, like, training videos, something that's got, you know, kinda yell like hell to or it's got some doctrine in it that you're, there's a learning objective along with that. Because for me, personally six minute videos, it better be really, really good when I talk about those kind of they. Well, I mean fortunately, there's a lot of videos there that really don't have any thought in them, they become those six to twelve minutes as there is an audience for those. I see that your partner with real trait. Yes, sir. I am a guy who loves to haunt. But of course, I don't go hunting. So I watch a lot of videos of people living vicariously through. Watch somebody in a deer stand for six to twelve minutes or longer. Okay, that makes sense. So that's something that, you know, even though I don't get to go hunting, like I want to or used to I'm an expert because I've watched somebody videos, we can talk about how we descent, and how we went products I use, and you know what to do. Next time you do go and saying, yes, if I go, and I'll probably what I talked to my godfather, who you know, he hunts out of an old bus, and he doesn't, you know, he's got his blue jeans on, and he's not washing his real tree. You know, hunting gear in certain detergents, sprang them with certain d, you know, since and things like that, like, I would, you know, that I've been trained by these long form videos that I've watched that nobody else would probably watch. But so my point is depends on what the video is. But I thought that'd be a great way to throw in your partner. They're real tree is I will watch video for twelve minutes. If it's something that you said, like if I'm by charissa hunting through. That video but yeah training, something of value. I think somebody would watch something of value, something that's going to they're going to get something again meaningful. It's going to be something that's gonna help them advance in whatever they're doing. I think that's a reason why somebody might wanna watch long form video or bring it back to real estate if you're going to really invest a lot of money into something, whether it be a piece of property, a home a car equipment gadgets gear. Whatever somebody's gonna watch a video to really understand all the ins and outs that video of that product or property, because they're going to invest a lot of money in that. So they're going to be more engaged with the longer video Knicks perfect sense. Great content so far we're going to slip away from our sponsors, real quick. We'll be back and just a few minutes with Christian better. Thinking about selling a real estate investment. But worried about the taxes you'll have to pay property owners, just like you have self their tax issue with a starker services ten thirty one exchange one. Call could save you a fortune in taxes. Call starker services today at eight hundred three three to ten thirty one or visit online at WWW dot starker dot com and keep the tax dollars working for you. Are you looking for heavy equipment, but unsure where to start? Then you need to check out auction time dotcom find great limit has never been easier than bidding online at auction time dotcom. What are you waiting for? Online auctions are closing every Wednesday. So register and start bidding today. Auction time dotcom the way to buy heavy equipment ever dreamed of owning your country estate historic home more lakefront property, log onto United country dot com. Would you like to retire to a home built on breathtaking acreage in the mountains? United country dot com. Ever dream of your own private hunting reserve United country dot com. Over thirty thousand farm, recreational IMB lifestyle properties are just a click away. Helping people find their American dream for over ninety years. We will help you find yours. Log on now to United country dot com and find your freedom. Crude oil, natural gas, coal buying and selling minerals is a breeze. When you have the right energy professionals on your team mineral marketing dot com is a leading resource for America's mineral owners, whether you're wanting to lease or sell your mineral rights mineral marketing has you covered mineral marketing dot com, the oil and gas marketplace. And we're back in the studio with Christian Vetter of viral video marketing while we were on the break talking about the different kinds of equipment. You've brought up something kind of interesting about phones, you know, the new technology right now that the just hand held devices in general and telephones, the quality of images, the quality of the video that they take is dramatically different than it was ten fifteen years ago. Absolutely. I mean, I have an I, I'm kind of behind the times, I have an iphone seven, and I see some of these new iphone ten tennis. Yeah. They should great video. So really there's no excuse not to get started shooting video, it is helpful to pick maybe a road video might you know, lapel mic that kind of helps. I see somebody that I know that works at a local TV station. They were a couple of years ago, they were doing some, some reporters started doing the live video on social media, and I said, hey, pick up a Pell, Mike. And now in here. Yeah they so they pretty much all have that now. So if you have your phone and you have a lapel. Mike or assure Mike, the plugs into the phone, and you can put it on. You put it on the person that you're recording video of in an interview, and it sounds great and you're able to then do live. Video recorded video. Yes. You might be hesitant to do video, because you think, well, I can't do video in a high quality fashion, and it is important high-quality video. There is a survey that comes out every year. It's called the element trust barometer in its hawks about consumer trust. So there is a piece that if people like to say content, is, is king as long as the content is great. Well, that is true, whatever you're doing even if you're using a smartphone, you still want to try to make sure you have the video horizontal if that's the latter unless you're doing vertical video, because there is a place for vertical video, but do it not, you can do that in high quality fashion. I'm so there's no excuse. You start making these videos, and if you can do on a consistent basis, you're going to start to connect with your audience, and you're gonna start to build that audience. If you start to do content and video. Content on a consistent basis. I see a lot of people carrying brand new phones, new phones, you know, the iphone ten Samsung galaxy the lapel mic that you just mentioned, and I'm talking about pricing of equipment. There's a website. There's a company out there called A, B, N H audio. We were a lot of our audio equipment from them and the other day I received an ad from them. And that's exactly what it was was the phone adapter and the lapel mic that you plug into your phone, and it was like twenty three dollars. Allow that thing had twelve or fifteen foot accord, and it would even come with a splitter. If you had two people, you wanted to split the micro, both of them had lapel mics, and you can't afford not to buy that cleaner audio up in my opinion. A great place to start in. You can level up little by little. I don't do what started I was what may in band, and I would go in the corporate video guy video marketer, but quickly changed to where I started using the creators and things like that. But I still have video equipment. -ment my don't do the video used to work with creators. Do the majority of the creating video where I work with clients into the client work in the marketing side of things and produce videos, but I still have quit. And the good news is the technology has been shrunk down to a pro Sumer level Rican really get high quality video, and you don't really have to break the Bank, I put together a kit like s k b case like a pelican case in there, I have a cannon em- fifty which is a, a merely camera that will shoot for K but it got pretty heavy crop factor. But if you shoot which basically means the video will be struck in on all gonna crop out, a lot of what you see on video, but shoots high quality, ten eighty it's real small comes with a decent kit. Lens, you can put a Jobe guerrilla pod, in, in this kit that you can quickly put the, you know, the camera on and you put a road. See your fan of road, by the way to road video, Mike pro on the camera and it gives you a quick little bit of a level up in your your. Flocking in that way, you don't have to use the lapel because you can if you're gonna do hand-held logging point right toward yourself. And in it sounds great. I use that a lot for testimonials and if you because testimonials are very important. So it's a quick way to get a high quality testimonial from client in. That's the kind of content that I recommend businesses start to get do. The logging do live videos because live videos being consumed at a higher rate than recorded video, especially on Facebook. So start doing those live videos start getting those testimonials if your business for you that's going to be farther down the funnel. It's going to help you convert more business. Whatever business you're in speaking in general in generalities here. But and you can do that with that kind of setup. You can get testimonies with your smartphone. You can get testimonials with a small merely camera. You can do an introduction video that you can put an Email linked in, or even on your website if you're getting started, so I think that's a really good to know. Because if you're hesitant in getting into to doing video for your business, you really don't need to. Because you've got pretty much everything you need. Right. In the palm of your hands. I wanna go back to something, you said about live videos versus prerecorded. Why is that I've noticed the exact same thing live short clip videos are getting a tremendous amount more views or traffic than prerecorded videos? In some cases. Why is that? I don't know if I got the exact answer is. But my, my feeling is that we see that little red light or the little red dot that's on. Oh, sounds going on. I gotta watch this, and then we wanna watch that live. There's more interaction going on, because you can type in comments in, in got a lot of social media influencers that people follow and they wanna comment to them. And, and they get responses right back. So it's a little more mediate. Maybe in the good thing about live video to a little longer form. So it's an opportunity for your brand to get a little bit more exposure with, with your audience, and they're engaged because they're commenting they're liking other sharing. So there's a lot going on in that video that with a recorded video sure you can still get comments and likes and. Shares but this is a little more media. So as a business or marketer, we really want to get that feedback, and you're going to get that feedback right there because it's going to be in the form of likes shares comments, those kind of things. Well, this probably good insight is to live at I can tell you statistically, when you look at those, the numbers in the views and the amount of people that are watching clicking on those and interacting to your point about engagement, they're engaging, whether it's phenomenally different dramatically different, and we have watched that on property videos, where people are shooting live videos of theirself, or of the property on site. And then you go back into a prerecorded video of very similar property and lay outside beside and the numbers are just dramatically different on one versus the other. That's good to hear. Because that's, that's kind of what I've been seeing too. That's why I talked to my clients about, oh, by the way, you really need to start doing live video, and they say, we're going to do that, and I work with a lot of in house, marketing team social media manager social media coordinators in. I get it. They have a lot to do and they've got to make sure they're following what they're doing that. They're keeping align to their marketing strategy marketing plan. But if they can find a way just to fit some live video, and I think they would see that that's really going to be helpful in doing a lot of things. And that's the cool thing about video, it's a wide brush, even though you can be very tactical and very specific in what you do video at the same time videos, wide Russian and accomplishes, a lot of things from creating awareness, educating, connecting converting video, you know helps you get found with SEO Google of video video a wide brush, and how you could leave that out of anything you're doing as far as your marketing is beyond me. So I've seen the light go on in business owners and marketers over the last six years, so they are starting to video, but I think that it's just now coming in focus, I should say because they wanna do video, but they need to learn different ways. You still see the one size? Fits all video and trying to put everything in the video, and you could do that with live video. But I think video if you're going to if you wanna put a longer for message out there live video would be the way to go. Sale Ray online at WWW dot sale. Ring dot com. Hosting sites for videos when you're uploading videos. Of course, YouTube them me of you're familiar with them e. Oh, sure we open mail Perot. And then he is great for my perspective. Video is great for creators of you have if you're putting a short film together or if you are or if you have a portfolio is a great place to put this is this is my perspective on it. I don't use video in a recommend meow to to my clients. Use another platform called whist Lia my staff. Okay. If you haven't heard of whiskey, and I still see the, you know, the eyebrows go up, when I say, whiskey, because a lot of people haven't heard a westie, even though it's been around I think since about two thousand six whiskey is video hosting for business. And if you wanna learn more about Wisden I'm not a commercial for whiskey a bit. Go to whiskey dot com slash product, and it's that page will tell you really everything you need to know about whist you in, if you're starting to do video at your place of business with you got a great community that can give you. Some inspiration on how to do different kind of videos, whether it be explainer videos for your website, social media videos videos for Email. Speaking Email video in Email, you're gonna see a higher engagement higher click through rates. If you just put video in the subject line if you take brackets parentheses, but brackets, and put video in there, a lot of times when I reach out to a client or potential client, I might put the name of their business, and then put video, and I don't know if they think, oh, this is a video about a business, but I mean just video in the subject line, you're gonna get higher. You know engagement with that, and it's much better than trying to call somebody wist Lia has a product that they use for a chrome browser plug in called soapbox at an if you ever soapbox. Yeah, I mean I'm fairly familiar with a lot of different plug ins, and that one sounds familiar soapbox is great, because you can record video, even if you don't have, you know, a high amount of editing skills, it's really just drag and clip and you, you put your video. And it essentially gives you to put a presentation in an Email. So it's for video editing. No, it's, it's, it's just for anybody who wants to send a message in video or an Email, but they wanna use video you record with your laptop. So you would take your laptop put it up on some books or something. So it's up higher. So it's a little more complimentary of angle, baby. Sit in front of a windows have more nicer pleasant light. And you want to reach out to anybody could be a personal Email could be a busy mail. You want to reach out to client, a potential client. Maybe you have a client, you wanna follow up with them in the Senate telling them things over phone. You could put you know, three or four a handful of bullet points because what it does you record yourself and then it gives you to go in and split screens. So you see your split-screen see the subject on one side. And you can have a presentation on the other side that says, you know, hey, this Christmas following up onto say, we looked at your recent, whatever in need of God, if you want to share with you, and it's boom, boom, boom, and like the follow up with you. To discuss this. You have any questions instead of, in, it's not an Email with tax and it's just it makes a nice thought you can make a custom thumbnail, again, just makes when the recipient gets the Email in this video in the subject line. And they see thumbnail on the video. They're met by what I call the most compelling call to action on the web the video play button and they can't help it. They gotta push it. And when they push it, it's really you. It's not text. It's not the phone. It's you on camera talking to them making eye contact through the camera, and you're giving them information that's meaningful to what they're trying accomplish their business. It's much more engaging and the good thing is. It's measurable when you package that up in soapbox. Can you say that, and send that same message to multiple recipients? Yes, I believe you, can you can just that whatever. Yeah, the I haven't heard of that actually in the wheels turning right now, I may have a plan for the whisky you can use all sorts of different Email clients for your Email marketing, but one that sticks Abbott. I think they're somewhat partners with them as male chip. So a lot of people use mail champ. Whether it be, you know, the basic or the free, or the or paid plan, whiskey goes, great with male chip. So when you send an Email out or Email blast, you'll not only know who watched it. But you'll know how much the video the watch because it's got heat maps, and you can see maybe there's a part of that was really interesting or maybe there's something wrong. Or maybe there's some questions that could be posed because you're seeing the heat maps, you're seeing something that they've been watching over and over. So as a sales person, you might help you into Speight questions. It might help you qualify leads. You can also contract conversions because you can put conversion links in there. You can also do a turnstile that comes out and captured leads right in the video. So putting using whiskey to embed on your website, right on the in, if you have an explainer video or landing page, you wanna capture some information rather than having that lead form which. Me as a consumer. I don't like the no none of us do use them fill that thing out. It's your put on a list. That's why at the turnstile comes out and it's right there. And it's got big tax to put your name. And I'm not saying use that as a as a gated con content were you force them to give you your or you could also put it where you can skip it, but you can make it that way, too. So you if you're doing training in, I think you guys said, you do some training, if you especially internally, if you need to send a video out that everybody in your organization needs to watch, because it's some sort of training, you can then make it where they have to put in their information. And they by the way, you can see if they watched it because you've got a pain, so love wisdom, wisdom and soapbox. Yes, so boxes there chrome rouser plug it, and great, and for all of our listeners, all of the different tools, and software programs, the links to this show. We're going to be posted in the show notes, whenever we upload the session. So they'll be able to find those very easily on our. Website. We're going to slip away here from our sponsors. We'll be back in just a few minutes with more from Christian. Ever dreamed of owning a country estate. Historic home, more lakefront property, log onto United country dot com. Would you like to retire to a home built on breathtaking acreage in the mountains? United country dot com. Ever dream of your own private hunting reserve United country dot com over thirty thousand farm, recreational lifestyle properties are just a click away helping people find their American dream for over ninety years. We'll help you find yours. Log on now to United country dot com and find your freedom. Dyal natural gas coal buying and selling minerals is a breeze. When you have the right energy professionals on your team mineral marketing dot com is a leading resource for America's mineral owners, whether you're wanting to lease or sell your mineral rights mineral marketing has you covered mineral marketing dot com, the oil and gas marketplace. Thinking about selling a real estate investment. But worried about the taxes you'll have to pay property owners, just like you have self their tax issue with a starker services ten thirty one exchange one. Call could save you a fortune in taxes. Call starker services today at eight hundred three three to ten thirty one or visit online at WWW dot starker dot com and keep the tax dollars working for you. Are you looking for heavy equipment, but unsure where to start? Then you need to check out auction time dotcom find great limit has never been easier than bidding online at auction time dotcom. What are you waiting for? Online auctions are closing every Wednesday. So register and start bidding today. Auction time dotcom the way to by heavy equipment. We're back while we were on break, we were visiting with Christian a little bit about best practices kind of tips as Trina just brought up your if your brand new to marketing, you're kinda starting on the path. You just set them on the tracks and say we'll focus on doing this, what would some of the, the best practices that you could recommend? You know what give us give us some tips give some guidance when we're just coming out of the gate? Well, if you're just starting I mean, I have what I call the prerequisite videos that you your business. And these are the videos that you should be doing if website, you're engaging with your customers online, you've got to have a website. Planer video, this is pretty video marketing one, one that explainer video. You don't want this video to be a real, long, sixty seconds, top, sixty seconds or less this, who you are what you do why you do it, it gives a glimpse to your audience into your company, your. We'll see the people the faces and again, learn a little bit more about this company and you'd really try to, you know, put that value proposition. You know of what as a company, you know what it is. You're doing what you're doing to solve the what's the problem you're helping solve for your customer, whether it's a service or a product get that in there, get that upfront. You don't want to bury that at the end because you might not get that opportunity to let them know that. So you hook them with the who you are what you do while you do in the first twenty seconds. That's a prerequisite have that explainer video on your on your website, social media videos videos that you can boost on Facebook or Lincoln Lincoln is making a huge shift of. And the had been for some time, but I think marketers are kind of forgetting about Lincoln. That's interesting. I hadn't heard that. So linked ends making a push end in videos, especially if you're beat to be, which is what their platforms designed to do. We did as a huge platform for video, you could post videos, and there's a lot of information you can get about who's watching your videos like the title of the CEO, chief marketing officer watched your video. What locations there are some Lincoln's, a great platform for video, again probably another, you know, whole nother segment on Lincoln alone, but I would have it, what would it take checkout Lincoln for video, especially if you're doing to be a great way just to, you know, is a professional to educate your network of what you do. If you're a real estate agent, I mean again, we talked about earlier, compelling versus selling, so we already know I'll watch a video with somebody in a deer stand for right? It's okay to talk about your day. It's okay. Cages to talk about whatever you don't have to get right to the sales pitch. You can do video without selling something, because you're actually you are selling something, you're selling yourself because people like to buy from people. They like not because you're the best if you tell me we're gonna go to restaurant that they've got the best hamburger. Let's great to know. But I might go back there because they have the best people. So I wanna know more about the people and hamburgers in the hammers. So doing these videos, and I call the prerequisite videos. It's great way to get your people your company, everything that is your brand essence in like your TV commercial put online on the on the front as your website, essentially what you're saying, only maybe like a shorter version of that. It is. But you said, TV commercial. Yeah, and I would say it's absolutely everything that's on TV commercial it, only because I don't want to make it sound like I'm scolding over that. But that's the thing is that you hit. A hot button right there, because everything is not because again, we watch these commercials on TV tune out completely, like called out. For a free whatever called out one eight hundred you know, they can't wait to tell you the phone number. I see attorneys of videos, fraternities, and they still want to say if you've been injured an accident. Call us today, one eight hundred seven seven seven seventy seven seventy seven seventy seven seventy seven. Right now. Yes at five sevens or six I think all seven seven seven seven seven seven seven seven calls now if you've been injured, we wanna help. I got injured dialing phone. I was injured calling you there was seventy seven's. Sevens. I'm suing. I'll then happy but yeah, so video TV little more selling online. Gotta be compelling. Nobody is we talked about nobody wants to be sold anything, but that homepage video is basically a compelling introduction to your audience. It's your about us page, essentially, so it's the first half year commercial on TV minus all the Selley stuff, you don't have you noticed. Have you seen more TV commercial starting to look like online video? Yeah. And that's been. That's not something new. I mean they've been doing that now for for for several years. They want them to look like they're online videos, the, the quality of the video may look a little more online. I guess if you wanna say, maybe looks a little more, you know hand held pretty this. Yeah, let's produce. But that's not the case you can produce high quality videos online in, even if you want to do it on your own, you can do it. So another video I would say would be testimonials so you can get the social media videos. I was getting ready to say that you could boost on Facebook, fifteen second video thirty second video these a little more brand videos that can be. Maybe they're gonna drive traffic to a landing page or something like that. They're going to sell a product that you can put a conversion link in there and you can, you can drive them to the point of purchase so you can do that on social media, but then also start to do testimonial. So if you've got that smartphone or if you've got that entry level camera or you start to level up and you've got your own camera, gear you can start to do, but it's easier. If you've got a hand held camera that you've got a customer. And you've had a great experience and you get that testimonial, then you've got video assets that you can start to optimize for what it is that you do. Kansas City landscaping. Kansas City, real estate Nordland real estate. Glad you know whatever it is. You can take those video assets. Now, you have something you can optimize, you can put a contact keyword rich description, an optimized title title that is not created to make you feel good. But one that somebody searching for how do I find? A home in the Northland or you know, your business better than I do. So what are those questions at your audience is what are they asking? That's how you optimize your video the really is. No proprietary secret big secret to this. I mean, if you just start to check the boxes in put a custom thumbnail put a contact keyword, wrist description, don't put one hundred tags in your video, just put the ones that are relevant to your geographic location. The main topic of your video and maybe your industry it in. There are other plug ins out there that can help you do this to buddy to, buddy buddies. One of them it's a plug in that helps you optimize your video content. It gives you tag suggestions. It helps you with the custom nails and you call it to buddy to you be like YouTube tube buddy to tube, buddy. Yep. Got it. Tell your friends, you get your information on the ring pug, cash show. There are things that I think are going to go well with video. So some of the things I've talked about just to kind of engage with an audience at my said. Well, you know, I know all this, I know you need explainer video. I know I need to do testimonies. Well, I wanna make sure and say something to those out there that are thinking what's next, and I would say video, invoice voice search in video voice visual are gonna go together great. And then you couple that with AI star consuming anything about a, especially with marketing business machine. Learning automation. I think those of the things that Don most interested in right now is voice search optimizing for longer string more natural conversational content that when consumers are looking online. They're looking for answers. They're not looking for a list of results. They want our device to tell them the answer. So it's not too late because actually, if you're if you're thinking this way, you're going to be in a better position to make sure that you are the one. With the answer. So all these things, I've talked about with you, two are gonna help you build that authority if you start to build at thirty now by making sure you're checking the boxes and doing these things when these changes come in you're going to be the one. That's a Google putting you at the top of the results. And, and you're you're going to be the one that's providing the answers to the consumers Christian. It's great, great content in an awesome podcast session, and I appreciate you joining train. And on the studio today, tell us how to get for the viewers out there. The listeners how to get hold of you in touch with viral video markets, a call at one eight hundred. This compelling talk. You got the number. But wait, there's more. Yeah. But wait, if you call down. You can just go to the west and there's a video there. Imagine that viral video Casey DACA, viral video Casey dot com. We're on Facebook viral video KC like our page there. And we try to post some tips like this. And I really hope you do have video on your website. Yeah. There's no, we haven't done video for our selves. No. I'm just that's videos that check out Christian and his website, viral video Casey dot com. It's viral video marketing viral video KC dot com. They'll be linked to all of the terms and software and great tips, that were mentioned in the show today, we appreciate you tuning in, and we'll see you next time inside the cell ring. Has ended but your journey to craziness continues to excess ole-ry sources links mentioned in today's show head over to WWW the sale ring dot com now. That's.

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Speaking in Dialect: How-to Books and the History of Popular Photography, with Kim Beil

B&H Photography Podcast

52:33 min | 4 d ago

Speaking in Dialect: How-to Books and the History of Popular Photography, with Kim Beil

"You're listening to h photography podcast for over forty years. Being h has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favorite gear news and reviews visit us at dot com or download. The beach up to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan white's greetings and welcome to the photography podcast on today's episode. We're going to be using audio technical microphones and we're delighted to be supported by audio technica and encourage our listeners to check out their mics headphones and other year on the b and h photo website. Today's show is going to be fun as john. And i welcome author and i quote scholar visual culture. I love it. Kim bill to the program. We could speak with him about a thousand photo related topics s. She's written about as much as anybody can on the subject and we going to discuss her new book. Good pictures a history of popular photography later in the show but we asked him to join us. Today took primarily about her extensive collection of camera. Manuals photography instruction books and photo magazines that date back to the origins of the medium and are featured regularly on her instagram. Feed at kim dot bill. Welcome to the show him. Thanks for having me absolutely pleasure. Let's fill more details about you here. Just get you embarrassed to know. Dr kim jong il is a professor at stanford university specializing in the history of photography. She's written on subjects as diverse as a relationship between color photography and modern architecture and on the use of blur in automotive advertising. Her work has been published in art forum. Art in america and extra contemporary art quarterly scholarly publications such as after image museums and social issues and visual resources. It's a pleasure to have you on the show Let me ask you. Is there anything about the target that you don't like it all that you absolutely hate. Pick great question you know. I love everything about the medium of photography a love looking at pictures and making them holding the objects in my hands and the equipment inc. The only thing. I don't like about photography has nothing to do with the medium itself but only to do with how it's policed. Sometimes the gendered or racialized assumptions about who can be a photographer. Or what and who appropriate subjects are i think. Sometimes when we describe photography as a singular medium there's a tendency to refer to an average type of user but those norms often privilege the people who are in control of publishing or manufacturing and they don't always represent the truly diverse people who are photographers. And who are the subjects targeting. So i love the medium itself. I want it to be accessible to everyone. It's funny that you mention that because About a month ago. I gotta tajuddin book on Advertising and marketing in the fifties. I forget the exact title of it but is several hundred pages and it was chock full of advertising on on all sorts of topics from automobiles to home appliances to everything and it was amazing that it was all white males with the proper wife and anybody other than a white person with like fair complexion wiz in a position of servitude in some measure and it was fast. And that's if you saw them at all. And i just have to be amazing. It was an eye opener to me. I grew up in and it was part of my norm. I never realized it Yeah i think. I didn't realize that In looking at the pictures either. I mean certainly when i look at some of the kodak how to make good pictures manuals i see pictures that look like my own childhood photos and i'm a white woman from the suburbs The places where they did. Stand out to me Was when i started learning photography and i was reading these manuals for instruction and always ran up against the pronoun he and that made me feel that young girl like maybe this isn't for me And of course you know. It's a convention of the time to usa singular pronoun. But i think you know the images and the language really stand out to us today and it's interesting too that many of the the how-to books and the manuals are all about making photography accessible to everybody or easy for everybody or affordable for everybody yet as you're pointing out there's a whole segment of society that may not be included in that everybody. Yeah and it's not to say that those people weren't taking pictures certainly women and people of color were taking pictures as far back as the earliest practitioners in the united states and one of the very first portrait photographers in the. Us was a free black man. In new orleans named joel lion sa- there's been a history of involvement with the medium but People of color and women weren't represented in the advertisements. Or in some of the instructional books you know at least until the second half of the twentieth century can occur is in your in your research and in your work. Have you found books. Or i guess. Yeah photo books how to books that. That are aimed at an audience of color or even in spanish language or anything kind of doesn't fit the normal. Yeah these are great questions and certainly an area that i'm hoping to research more. I think my access to many of these books has been through libraries than the us And increasingly on e. bay. I'm sure we're going to talk about. But i haven't had access to many books made in other parts of the world I think certainly the fuji film how to books. would be an interesting counterpoint The first manual that i know of that was written by a black photographer with by gordon parks And that was only published in nineteen forty seven and it wasn't directed specifically to target as the color his book And as i'm sure he wanted it to be was accessible to photographers who are interested in flash photography which is the title. But there were some women publishing How to articles especially in the nineteenth century An occasional books. There's an issue of the photo miniature That was written by an amateur named kathryn stanbury. I'm so there are some Limit cases but i i would love to find more. There was a period Before photography was truly established So you know the gary and era so eighteen forty s eighteen sixty ish when it wasn't quite understood yet as men's only medium and during that period there were women studio owners People went to women of for their portrait photographs and it wasn't considered completely out of the norm. It is still a small percentage overall But were women entrepreneurs working in the medium in the beginning and then it seems like there's more of a drop off as there's a move towards professionalization And then you have that bifurcation of the practice with the rise of the amateurs In eighteen eighty eight eight hundred ninety. And that's when you start to see the women pushed off to one side and then again in the nineteen fifties. You've got backlash following Women's access into the workplace during world war two and the nineteen fifties goes back to really Traditional gender norms. So they're they're kind of waves during the history where women are Closely involved in the medium and all aspects of its production but represented in different ways in the how to manual you. I thought i thought just make a comment about this. That i probably mentioned it a few times but i were commercially for about twenty five years doing a lot of editorial work in corporate work. And i'm i'm gonna say that. Seventy five to eighty percent of my assignments were given to me by women. Ooh photo editors graphic designers people who are giving the workout who are assigning. These projects just editorial for corporate for reports advertising were women who are choosing men to shoot these. I just this is my experience of it. Going back from the mid seventies too late ninety s. Yeah that's really interesting. I think i mean they were choosing you. Maybe they weren't just choosing all men Full head of hair. And i was kind of cute back then but no seriously I mean these are the same people who choosing all of the photographer out there. Not just me and these were major corporations magazine's publishers And again it always of struck me that yeah. There were not very many women photographers illustrators. For that matter and look who's giving out the work and answer to that. There's some interesting changes recently to with the establishment of groups like women photographs and diversify photo. These are basically agencies that are promoting the work of photographers of color and women photographers To make simply finding things Finding those photographers easier. Sometimes it is just a matter of almost accidental And just making it more obvious that there are choices out there. That don't have to be the same people who are always called on again and again a good point. Can i ask a little bit about your the photo manual collection. That you have i mean was it. Is it something that you have been acquiring for years and years or is it just items that you've picked up in relationship to the work that you're doing in the book published well. It was really because i was dumped in some of my research Manuals are not typically elected by libraries because when the new volume comes out the old volume is ds dash Because it's considered out of date so you could never find a full run of the kodak how to make good pictures because each one is Trashed at the end of its run so a friend of mine Put me in touch with the leonian foundation. And they offered me. Philip leoneans library of how to book So that was the initial chunk of my collection. That i used during research on my book on my also did some research the prelature library in san francisco which you know intentionally collects instructional material not just for photography but for film And the uses of film in more industrial application. So that was definitely the beginning of my Kind of accidental collection. Recently it has grown a lot and probably will continue to how was the. How were these kodak Books distributed was hit by a subscription or with the available in bookstores. Were camera shops. And how how they distributed. I don't know exactly Except that i do have a few with Camera shops stickers on them so my guess is that you could purchase them there. There's a whole variety of books. The ones that. I rely on most how to make good. Pictures are real books Hardcover and soft cover about Five by eight But then there are a bunch of other types of manuals magazines on. They also had their magazine called. Kodak ary They had molar magazine. format things that would go out with cameras so there are lots of different ways that they were reaching their consumers time. Life magazine also came out a wonderful series of photography books hard bound books on different topics that were available in supermarkets and gorgeous books. I think i might have two or three of them laying around but did it was a good series of maybe about fifteen sixteen books possibly twenty. I don't remember but each one had a different theme and amend was a hard bound. I believe square format was just a beautiful beautiful book and they out periodically over a period of the year. I think wow. That's fascinating that they were in supermarket. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah and so we. Would you consider yourself a collector now out looking for new material and like what strikes your fancy when when you come across an old or maybe not even that old manual sh. Yeah i think i. I do have to admit that. I am collecting now. A i'm looking on bay And sometimes through auction. How the. I mostly because of the format. But i'm sharing these names on instagram. One of the things that's most important to me is the cover. So i love having a great cover image and illustrations throughout the book. I think the ones that appeal to me most are the ones that teach things like competition because it focuses on those issues that interest me in you know who's in the picture how how does form influence the content of of a picture. And how do those things change over time and are there any authors. I mean i know that many famous well known photographers have put out books. How to manuals or even philosophy related books but are there authors who are not necessarily known as photographers who've just put out you know so many books that they've become kind of a well known in that right yeah There are few mostly more. In the sean. Nra editors i think jacob de shan. Who was the longtime photo or photo columnist for the new york times released at least half a dozen books and they are always directed amateurs. I tend to prefer those ones that are speaking to amateurs. the voice and the personality of the author is most visible in those So i mentioned catherine stanbury. I love her Book that she calls leaves from an amateurs notebook. One of my favorites is Charles taylor's book from nineteen o two called y. My photographs are bad. Got these are all Gar wanna read. they're totally. Oh it's wonderful. I just love these books because they speak from really from one amateur to another and so they do tell you about their history in the medium and they promise to give you all the clues to making yourself a better photographer. They don't speak from a position of professional authority right which is often the pain and which is often why these books kinda turn people off. I find anyway. I have a book that i picked up. At a flea. Market zillion years ago or it's the photographic instruction book by townsend t steph from one thousand nine hundred three and it's got a red cover and it is absolutely wonderful to read. He talks about the proper etiquette taking pictures and all the formulas in there and even tells you the best way of taking a picture while riding a bicycle. I remember the last time somebody gave me that kind of advice. And he wasn't wearing a helmet. Either i might add but But it's wonderful because there's an innocence to it and there's none of the I don't know what you did. The art scene is that we put around photography. Now in none of all of these you know or is a of mystique. It was about taking pictures. Did he talk about franken family. I'm sorry did he talk about boca or okay. No not at all not at all. No so what about the you know. I guess what are more instruction booklets. I mean they're on a new instagram. Feed that are dedicated or or you know our instruction booklets for particular camera. I find those pretty interesting as well. are you out looking for those or they just come in your way. I mean i imagine those are some much easier to find. Maybe because there are more affordable and tossed away more. So i don't know but yeah it's interesting they seem to be about the same price on ebay For me. they're wonderful because they still that advice into just you know eight to twelve pages and so you get a lot of that prescriptive advice like always shoot with the sun behind you or You know never get the keystone effect in photographs of tall building. So i that kind of prescriptive advice is something that i respond to And having it distilled in these short booklets is great on. They're also a lot easier to store shelves of them. I'm looking again at your at the instagram. And that gordon parks book that you that you mentioned with the real basic simple cover. I love it just just right after the war and and he put that book. that's wonderful. Yeah i think he was already active in As a member of life. And certainly this is you know post. Ffa photography and flash was a hot topic than Because it was just becoming available on the consumer market so things have been Improved during the war and companies were finally able to mark these Flash kit to basically amateurs or what we would call pro sumer today. And how much is how much of these different trends that you've seen are tied to the technology and to the camera companies coming out with new new features. New devices is dc kind of like I don't know how to say it. What's the word i'm looking for. Maybe like cycles and then like a surge of new books coming out on a topic and and yeah it's fascinating actually. It's very tied so technology but not necessarily in the way you would think so. You'll have a new technology like flash come out which means you can still very rapid motion easily and then of course there are books that teach you how to do it And then right after that. You've got a bunch of photographers who say well. We don't wanna do that. Why would we want it to make. Why would we wanna make these fast. Moving things look like they're immobile and so there's a re evaluation of the types of trends that came before which weren't even trends. They were just mistakes. Technological advance and then in fetig kind of Step backwards instead of mexico. In the in the forties and fifties you have people starting to reintegrate motion blur which i see as a direct backlash to flash photography is a fair to say that the manuals themselves in the how to books kind of Parallel all the thoughts. There are on photography whether it happens to be the aesthetic of freezing motion compared to the blur motion. I mean is it all out there. That's a really good question. I turned to the manuals originally rather than photographs themselves. Because the manuals name the trends and a Otherwise you know people even on instagram. Don't necessarily say what kind of picture they're taking. That's just tell you what they're taking a picture of you know privileged content over a description of form and so i was using the manuals because i could really easily date these trends. But you know that's not to say that the manuals for the only things teaching people i mean just like today have always learned from looking at other pictures So i'm sure that there are things that were happening in photography that weren't consciously taught by the manual And there were definitely things happening in photography. The manuals tried to teach the so. That's where all those Rules about The things you're not supposed to do all that comes in. I wonder are. There must be out there that you've come across where it is just about all the things you shouldn't do right. I can imagine yeah. It's great. I i mean. Every book has a few pages of missed. Common mistakes or kodak has a section called what went wrong And i i think these are you know there are later and of technological issues like you got it wrong. Flash thinks speed or you. Fog here film and earlier a lot of the what went wrong. Things aren't like you weren't using the viewfinder or you had your thumb over the length really neat to see them These accidents In the books as evidence of will diagnosing. What might be the problem with your pictures. I like the what you sent us in an email earlier from a nine hundred fifty seven book better pictures with the quote. Who is that man with no head. That's uncle harry. Because you never learned to point your camera so what about you know famous or you know. Very well known established photographers who who also wrote books. I mean are there You know. I guess it's fair to say that a lot of people who can do can't teach and vice versa are there. Are there examples of photographers. Who who put out books that are also wonderful instruction manuals and maybe the opposite or just you know not very good at torture yeah. It's a question there. I mean ansel adams is probably the best example of the both the best known photographer but also the best known photo teacher because of a series of books on the zone system. And you know maybe those things go hand in hand. Maybe he was so well known among people who are not solely involved in fine art photography because he was such an effective teacher but there are other Great photographers who put out. Great books i think of Andreas feininger Is a very prolific author and from the forties in the seventies to the seventy s. I'm he was the son of lionel. Find finding her from the bow school So andreas worked in life. Magazine and others And he included a lot of his own photograph of a copy of his book. Right here in my hand. The complete photographer wolf wrote so many books they are. They are great Arthur rothstein Speaking of essay genre photographers wrote. A wonderful book called creative color. Photography author rothstein hired me and my first job at look magazine where i was washing and drying prints in nineteen seventy. He comes across as really generous. Kind person using lovely man a real gentleman a very very sweet man. Yes so. I would contrast that with bernice abbott's to better photography where She doesn't come across the teacher. Who would have been particularly generous. But you know people are writing styles different about like the growth of youtube tutorials and online content material. That's out there is affecting the whole the whole genre. How to books are they still being made as regularly as they used to be. I don't think they're being made as regularly as they used to be but there's still a demand for teaching and some of that like you said comes across on youtube tutorials. I'm kind of fascinated by tiktok which teaches people how to make tiktok within tiktok itself. There are lots of self reflexive tutorial But they're also books that Have grown out of these new popular trends. I think of you know henry carols so you wanna be instagram famous. This whole series produced by laurence king and there are definitely books that are looking at A social media today and publishing in book format Training you how to how to succeed on online yeah. There are few recent Series that are a video series or interactive online series and books that go with them and joel mero. It says. Recent book on street photography is absolutely astounding. He really teaches you how to think about working on the street and doesn't give you just a list of ten rules about composition. But i think the book is intended to help photographers. Discover what motivates and inspires them. And help them find their own voice and is he using his own images as examples or is he talking about the work of a range of people now he uses his own images. And it's i think it's really valuable because you can see how the images come together. And he describes the m- how the moment coa last and what he was looking for. And why worked at this moment but hadn't a minute earlier. Let's take a short break. Traffic and weather and come back with more with kim deal and his popular photography stay tuned into this episode of the beach. Photography podcast is produced using audio. Technica microphones check the lincoln our show notes for the audio technica product. Page on the website. Okay we are back. Let's talk about your book of good pictures history of popular photography and in this you talk about events that kind of changed the direction photography I if that's putting it. Can you give us a couple of good examples of things that happened over the course of time that changed how people looking at photography and maybe a good place to start would be could act itself because crappy from wrong. I think kodak involved in photography that undestood had a brand itself to the public and even the name kodak was made up. Because it's a catchy memorable phrase or two syllables. Yeah that's right so this book deal not only with fine art photography Or any one part of Photography as it's been practised since eighteen thirty nine but it focuses on pictures that would have been widely seen so it encompasses our but it also encompasses advertising and fashion and portraiture and snapshot so right off the bat. You've got styles that are emerging in the nineteenth century for portrait which was one of the early most viable aspects of the medium. And so you see people representing themselves initially in a way. That looks a lot like a mugshot today. but eventually aesthetic chen trends evolve. And people you know take on three-quarter link portrait's or three quarter views So there are lots of ways that photographs change in style so before kodak The invention of the kodak and eighteen eighty eight when photography became really accessible to amateurs it wasn't limited to professionals because suddenly you have a photofinishing industry that enables people to send their film back for processing You still had popular subjects. That were seen widely by people Throughout the country across different social demographics but certainly the kodak is one of those main changes in the history that enables to take pictures And to copy popular styles in a way that they couldn't have done easily before and how. How much of these aesthetic changes are these trends. That kind of what. I mentioned earlier. I suppose but are abroad on by a technical changes And you mentioned a style of portraiture. Were someone just staring at the camera. I mean that has to have something to do with the fact that the exposure time was so long right and there wasn't really a lot of opportunity to get nuanced facial expressions gestures correct. Yeah that's that's a great point on so in these early portrait's The i say ten to twenty years you have people staring you know fully frontal facing the camera and that was really an aesthetic demand so people thought that they were paying for a picture of their face and they wanted to see their whole face in it and they thought that shadows detracted from that. Believe it or not And so when the photographer new york. Based william kurtz came along and pioneered his rembrandt effect lighting techniques He started adding a sidelight To you know give some dimensionality to the face and then pretty quickly. That style was picked up within a year or two and there were already detractors from it so it wasn't yet a more natural Representation people still had to be held in portrait posing apparatus and so the technology had improved a little bit since eighteen. Thirty nine on to win kurtz introduced the style and eighteen sixties but it wasn't It wasn't you know like a snapshot. Today it really truly was An aesthetic change. That was kind of representing people in a more artistic way on maybe not necessarily a more natural way. He put his own touch on it Touch to interesting. yeah. I think it's important to keep in mind also that all pictures taken back then. We're all time exposures along because there was i mean Isos speeds what three or six for a lot of these emotions that were being mixed up his nothing. There's no such thing as one hundred or four hundred or thousand eyeso- Was all very slow. The cameras with slow so nobody was moving anywhere. I style wise people kind of restricted Yeah it's fascinating. I mean in the course of the research for this book. I learned that there was a season for photographing that. If you live in a northern city like new york or boston you couldn't take portraits in the winter because there wasn't enough light so even though most portrait studios were on the top floor of buildings if they were in a city to get the most light from skylights you basically couldn't work in the winter at all. Yeah that's true that's right. Even went to north light in the net. The light goes away from the north in the winter months. That's correct yeah. Let me think about that well in any other particular trends that come to mind that i mean that are in the book. Of course that that you'd like to speak about. I'm sure i know there's fifty in the book and it's a wonderful book but is there anything that Us wanna mention that interest you particularly. Yeah there are a few earlier. we're talking about the joke In the beginning of the keeley better pictures book. And he said you know who is sockeye without ahead In the nineteen sixties it suddenly became popular to have kind of close cropped portrait so for at least fifty years before that the advice in all of the manuals was make. Sure you're looking through your viewfinder give plenty of space to your portrait subject. So that you don't get any part of their head cropped out of the frame and then you know in the sixties you start Having photographers move in closer and they start to crop at the hairline crop in on the face a little bit And doing that in camera not necessarily in the dark room. And so that was a real stylistic. Change definitely taking something that was originally considered an accident and making it into deliberate effect The difference between decapitation cropping also. Yes but a so i Partially cropped through head with. I probably as As much a failure as a total decapitation actually photos that were the heads are partially cropped or parts of the facing half a face you know i was found his pretty fascinating takes me away from looking at quote unquote the person and and looking at the aspects of the face and kind of digging in a little bit deeper so that. That's one of the reasons. I suppose i like it but and i'm wondering do you. Is there any examples of. Let's say an an art photo art style or even that was considered avant-garde that crept into popular photography. And and then we see it. You know it becomes something. That's very the norm. That at one point was just considered you know if not radical just the unique look of one individual photographer. Yeah that's a good question I would say we were just talking about cropping And this was also news to me. That cropping really didn't exist Before the twentieth century. I mean most things were contact printed And either your negative was of such a large scale That it was easy to put it down on another on a piece of developing paper and print it or it was so small that you couldn't blow it up and they before electric light and larger. You had to do this all with a solar and larger which you know is a good use of your winter months if you can't be shooting portrait but cropping really didn't become a possibility until the twentieth century and i think maybe if i'm looking right i at say somebody like Stieglitz and making these tall narrow pictorial views of new york wouldn't have been widely practised beforehand. Most people were cutting their pictures out themselves or if anything just putting a matt over it which is what the comedy tin type or something else. You just put a paper matt or quite often. That came when you. The picture was put into a little sleeve of sorts cardboard or paper and that basically framed it in a sense that was pajau. Otherwise you just had the the edges of of of the picture In those cases they were probably cutting out the areas that were less than focused because of lab rations or the size of the plate doesn't match the size of the lens image irregular emotions the get sloppy towards the. I just didn't drop out that way paper. That's that's the way i've seen them. But yeah i never thought about that that you don't see cropping in these old pictures at all. It's all contact. prints stir. Are there any moments in our collective history. Let's say well obviously since the beginning of photography but where there was a rapid change in the styles of of a popular photography and reflect social changes. I mean i know we we think a lot about you know the sixties and seventies and the social changes that they brought artistic changes as well i mean is that then reflected in in popular photography or as you mentioned earlier you know post world war. Two in the change in the workforce and items like this do they find themselves dripping down into a prolific huckerby dripping down and sometimes bubbling up by. Maybe the first one is an example of bubbling up and not the invention of the kodak. When suddenly you have so many more photographers working and making pictures that you know. They're maybe not exposed properly or framed in the way that the target for wished but suddenly there's just a giant quantity of picture in different places. You can go with. The camera with a portable hand held camera. You can do things that you couldn't have done before. So you have street photography you have like travel and Family portraiture that happens right outside the house. So those that's an example of Amateur practice being seen on a wide scale. And then i think you're right to point at the sixties and seventies to that in this period. There's a lot of Looking back to former mistakes so that because there's a moment of intense technological advance you have really fine grain film You have which you can blow up And crop down again later You also have really high speed films That you can use in low light situations and then you end up with photographers. Using both of those things kind of against themselves to make really grainy prints or introducing blur intentionally. So yeah i think both of those are related to major social. Change at the time to i think polaroid included in that as as being a major game. Changer rules send you could share pictures in real time or sixty seconds after the fact which is bad as instantaneous as you can get back in those days but that added a whole different dimension to photography too because you take pitching. Let me do that too. And it was going around and people sort real time and everybody went home with their pictures. Actual prints that were unique in many ways so i don't think that could be a overlooked Again i thought that was a pretty impressive piece of technology for its time. It's still a to me a nasal that you can take a picture. Pull the printout out like that to me. It's more amazing than digital speaking to digital. Maybe we can. We can jump you know to our our current state and and talk about any trends that have just by so many but I do have a question that I mentioned earlier and i'm going to try to get it out as as as best as possible. But i've always found that there's this narrative out there that because of digital and because of smartphones and and people taking so many pictures that it's kind of diluted the art form or it just makes it so easy anybody can do it and therefore That somehow bad. I actually kind of find to be the opposite and look back as i mentioned in my notes to to the countless shoe boxes and drawers filled with just horrible snapshots that my parents and grandparents took that were never gonna look that again so i really want to know if like you know what you're seeing out there today with this proliferation of of of of imaging You know has the dynamics really changed mud's or is it just the fact that there is more of what we had. I mean i don't. I don't see photography. Getting any worse is what i'm trying to get. I totally agree with you. I don't see photography getting worse. Either i see it getting better. And i think this goes back to my beliefs. My only gripe with the medium has nothing to do with the medium itself but really only with how its police. And i think all of these pictures are speaking to particular audiences and they serve a purpose but they don't all claim to be nor do they all Need to be considered fine. Art photographs And certainly within the category of fine art. You're looking for uniqueness of vision. You're not looking for something that's You know repeating popular trope but for a family photograph. I mean that's really not your intention. And i think the pictures. We might look at a bad or boring today. Served a purpose not only to record that event but also to simply mark the event in the moment. I think i mean i still take a lot of pictures that i don't share but because somehow taking the picture points to the importance of the moment for me. It's a way of underscoring how much i appreciate being in a particular place And so whether or not. I look at the picture later whether judge a good picture not my thing. 'cause almost immaterial like photography as much is a practice as much as it is a product. Let me throw this thought at the follow up on that okay you have you mentioned. We have these pictures taken of aunt sallies sitting in the boxes that you know. They're not good pictures. But you know something. We're all very familiar with those pictures and I'm a move right now. Obviously go through boxes. And you start throwing things out and there were photographs. That i found that i remember from my childhood being in scrapbooks family scrapbooks and they're not great pictures but i remember them and and the opposite is going on today right. There's some phenomenal photography going on these days. I i look at what's out there and people doing amazing things with cameras and imagery with basic cameras and ends well as the highest technology cameras. There are and then. I also have to think about a a quote from ralph gibson was watching an interview with him Shortly before we did our episode with him and he had an interesting point of view. He doesn't bother with instagram rain. He goes because the fact is no matter. How good the picture is people look at it for. They average about two to three seconds and they flip onto the next picture but we all remember those faded black and white pictures of aunt. Sally ourselves walking around those horrible outfits be were old back those days when we were kids we remember them any of these fantastic pictures that we need to remember that we flip through on the phones. I was just gonna say that. I find myself actually on occasion doing just that like just literally flipping through my iphone letting it almost randomly stop at a photo from a year ago. Two years ago three years ago some of my forgotten but they just always bring normally bring back great memories you know and and and i almost the exact same way as when i used to look through a photo album you know i don't i don't feel any difference. You know And maybe i don't take many photos as others but But the you know the ideas the same you know. I do realize that you know for example. I use my phone now to t- as a notebook you know. I'll take a picture of of some texts. Just why remember something. I do things like that. That i never would have done before. But but the the this idea of memory and is basically the same. Yeah i think maybe it's sometimes the familiarity that breeds appreciation and so when we see those pictures of aunt sally over and over again. You know they start to become part of your memory and you know unless you're spending time like john going back through the photo album of on your phone. You don't spend the same amount of time with those pictures instead. They don't have the same kind of trigger from memory. But i use my phone as a notepad as well and i would tend to describe those things as pictures and maybe as important as any kind of stereotypical beautiful view that i might feel compelled to to snap. I mean on the flipside. I do look in my kids. In and like the sheer quantity of photos. They'll take just to get the one image and and then when they don't delete the forty other drives me crazy but but at the same time. It is a different attitude. I think an exactly sure about that. But when i when i see just the amount of photos that they will take to get you know that selfie looked they want or whatever it happens to be That does make me think. But i ever let me ask him quickly about photo magazines. Because you're you also collect photo magazines. It seems and and we had on our show More than a year ago. Alvin to letty. Who put out a great book on fashion magazines and and the value of them and collecting them. And how in some cases they are the the truest and original form of some great photographs. You know avid on and others How do you look at photo magazines and in house your collection coming. My collection photo magazines was entirely accidental. They're only two or three things in it and they were sent to me by generous ebay connection. Who said also have these. I'll just throw them in the box of so. I don't have a large collection. Certainly nothing that approximates been says But i think you know. His book is brilliant and not work is really important because you know photographers have done. Lots of work over the past Seventy years they aren't ever just working in one area photography or another and so. I love that. The fashion work shows them working with art directors and editors and shows them in this ecosystem of images in a way that you know when we only see one print in a museum. It doesn't tell the same story and any examples of fashion photography that have kind of led to a trend in popular photography. Good question I think probably Obviously avid on work Especially his use of Borders and printing full frame was important in sixties And then more recently. I think you're gonna tell her. And the on camera. Flash is huge. We still see that An almost like blending avalon blank white background with this hard flash and shadows is is kind of bringing the nineteen sixties into the twenty tens but there. I mean see fashion photographs. All the time Even on instagram. When we're not going through magazines So i think this is one of the major areas of photography that is popular but sometimes overlooked about Maybe the reverse effect where popular photographs were the style of popular photographs snapshots. Then kind of Come back as an artistic form I'm trying to think of Nainggolan workforce for example may be where you have Almost snapshots of her her friends and and people hanging out with yeah nainggolan. Perfect example There's something about that. The the snapshot aesthetic that promises authenticity. And i think keller is using that also because the on camera flash was number associated with professional photographic and so when we see those like hard shadows looming behind subjects. That looks like it was just a simple party snapshot when in fact it was really Setup clearly for the photograph but I do see this in contemporary apps. Like a hoochie cam with includes a little digital time and date stamp in the digital. You can actually change the time and date so. It's just. I mean it's the same thing as using like a fake Filed out negative carrier frame and adding that later in photoshop it promises authenticity Because this style always promised authenticity but it doesn't necessarily come from the same play. So actually i have a maybe one last question kim if that's okay Do you have an all time favorite. How to book. So it's a funny question right. Because i love the books that i can talk back to So the ones that. Get me riled up the most are sometimes the how to make pictures because they have these really prescriptive rule but the one one book stands out. It's not in my collection. But i wish it were And it's by bunny gaiger. Who was a pinup modern in the mid century. And she made a book called. How i photograph myself which is pretty interesting you know. She's turning the tables. She becomes her own talker and she uses a lot of the same strategies of representing her. As in the male photographers came before. But i think it does make a difference and that she's in control of the camera and maybe a follow up question to that is if you're kind of against the prescriptive model of what people should and should not do Can you offer a definition of what you think is a good photo or what what strikes you as a photo. Yeah i think it changes in different contexts And i think the best thing i can say overall is the photograph is good if it speaks to the people who it's meant to speak to so it's kind of communication that we i'm gonna make a different kind of picture to go in and museum than i would in a fashion magazine and certainly the pictures that i take for myself. You know what. I'm out hiking or not the same things. I post on instagram. But anything that works within one of those contexts. If it's not that it's following those rules but it's speaking in the dialect of that place And i think that's the best way to define a good photograph for me that it it speaks to who it intends to speak to. Okay that is the wrap of another show. One last thing kim talking in the library. What's that about so this is a series of youtube conversations that i've had with photographers about photo books. And it started last year at the beginning of the pandemic. When suddenly you know. My students were sent home from campus and had access to the libraries. Which is where we are so lucky to have access to these incredible photo books. But you know we didn't have some suddenly at home. And so i started these conversations where i ask a photographer to find one of their favorite photo books and we talk through it together. I think i'm one of those people who like can't sit next to somebody reading without reading over their shoulder. So this is the equivalent of that for me. It's like reading a menu but you really learn a lot more about the pictures when you see somebody else working through them working through sequence and rhythm and framing And it's been a it's been a real delight had some wonderful guest and i'm excited to continue and if people wanna see more of you work. Where can they go to. I mean you can find all these links on my website It's kim be okay. I m b. e. l. dot com and not links to the youtube series and to my instagram and the book greed and also. Let's not forget a. Kim's book good pictures a history of popular photography. It's a wonderful wonderful book And i love the cover to it's. It's pure kodak. I guess it's a coloring whip. Where can people get the book. You can order the book on amazon or through. Any of your local booksellers okay. Great and again all this will be in our show. Notes can thank you so much again for joining us. Today was a great conversation. Thanks so much for having me. It's been really fun. That's terrific if you are not a subscriber to our show head on over to spotify or ever. You snap your favorite podcast and type in b. n. h. photography podcast enter. And you are no longer have live in shame and if you already a subscriber nice comment and you can also find us on the being explorer website and on the being h photography podcast facebook group page and one last. Thanks again to our friends at audio. Technically for the use of their top shelf microphones. All that said. My name is alan white and on behalf of john harris and jason tables. Thank you so much for tuning in to day.

kodak tiktok gordon parks Kim bill usa Dr kim jong il joel lion kathryn stanbury leonian foundation Philip leoneans kodak Books jacob de shan catherine stanbury townsend t steph Alan white fetig kim Andreas feininger Arthur rothstein
The Rode NT Mini USB In Action

Ask the Podcast Coach

54:41 min | 9 months ago

The Rode NT Mini USB In Action

"Asked the podcast coach, for August Eighth Two thousand and twenty. Eight. There it is that music means it's Saturday morning. It's time for the podcast coach where you get your podcast questions answered live I'm your host gave Jackson from the scheme of casting dot com joining me right over there from France. How cool is that? It's trig Hewitt from Casto's or you might also knowing from. Dot Com Craig has gone buddy. Going great how you doing, Dave, thanks for having me on. Jim If anybody's like, Hey, where's Jim? It has gyms nine, his mom's ninetieth birthday and his mom was like Kovic mobile everybody's coming to my birthday. So that's where Jim is he will be back but the cool thing is. Craig has a got a new microphone because he was kind of like me usually recommends the good old audio Technica Eighty are twenty, one hundred and you're using a a road what what model is it so this is the road in t many, USB. Awesome. We're going to be playing with that in in just a second but Craig if you could grab yourself the old what is that thing called? It's it's a pitcher and. And Give Yourself a cup of whatever you're drinking. There we go. It's time for the the morning poor and that of course is brought to you by our good friend mark over at podcast branding dot co, and I've been saying something very wrong. I've been saying that mark has been a graphic artist for thirteen years My friend is wrong. He started podcasting in two thousand thirteen. That's the great thing about mark is he understands podcasting he's been a graphic artist, a an award winning graphic artist for thirty years. Holy cow just a little bit of a difference there Dave. So but here's a we'll be educational day Craig do you know the difference between a logo and artwork? Because I did not. In the in the confines of podcasting, you're just generally in. Glasgow podcasting oh I say the artwork is square image that everybody has their feet and a logo is something that's associated with your brand a look at that. He's got it. That's right. So an example of this, I'm GonNa Date Myself Kiss destroyer is that before your time Craig? Let's go. Rolling. Stones. Album they have one that's just a pair of pants with the Zipper on I'm really dating myself today, but that's the album cover but probably somewhere on that cover is the good old fashioned tongue, which is the rolling stones logo. So one, the album is the artwork. Tongue is the logo for those of you remember kiss destroyer or think about any kiss album has the guys in the makeup, but then they have that special kiss with the the lightning bolt thing that's their logo. The album march is that if you look at Ted nugent again, could this dave know anything outside the seventies? No. has his album, and then he always has that that weird script for the Ted Nugent Art. So if you need artwork barks Gotcha covered if you need a logo. If you need a website. He makes really really really pretty websites. Golden check him out at podcast. Dot Co and detailing the David Craig sent you and bill he'll take care of you and that's the Nice thing about it is. If you're looking for like one one personalized attention. Mark will give it to you so I so craig is this the first time you've you've busted in the Little Rhode Benny Mike there it is. I opened it about thirty minutes ago. So yeah, it's fresh out of the box. Is there any option there to? Change like is it recording from just the front or the back or the side or? No there's there's a dial on the front that's volume, and then there's an input for the US in the back and the headphone Jack if I wanted to listen to myself talk. Let. Makes an easy. It reminds me a lot of the Audio Technica Mike in that way but I think that they were talking that we're a maximum vacation right now and so I had to I left my normal kind of rig with the boom arm and all this at home that's hard to travel. With N we're in I'm in the big gun of living room at A. Dining, room table right now and I think that's a fair amount to do with that. I'd be very curious to get this Mike in my normal room at home. That's like a small room with a bunch of soft surfaces and stuff. Yeah. Because I I've never had a road mike but I hear a lot of good things about them and we wanted to. Test this Mike to have one recommended folks because the Audio Technica Mike. At least the old USB isn't available. I can't find it anywhere but this one is available I. Got I. Got One through h photo just last week. So now. The last time I checked B. N. H.? Had the Samson Cue to you which is. Usually, what I recommend for people that are in Europe because it's hard, I guess for them to get in an audio technica I don't know what the the hassle is but it's a lot of times not as available in your now. But the other nice thing about road stuff like this is a road pod Mike and not only is it a great microphone I'm here to tell you. You could take somebody out with this thing. Yeah, I am I can sleep next to the bed with this and if enemy comes in. Gets, right to the temple they're done. It's two two for the price of one. Is supposed to have like a pop filter in, which is a big thing I know like you obviously have a public transplant, we recommend everybody. So this is like one less. Piece of equipment you have to have but I don't like that. It's you mentioned before it's pretty far away from me. So I, think that's that's the 'cause a lot headache usually yeah it's always fun and of course we're talking gear. Have you heard about these zoom pod tracked? P for yet Craig I have not no this is this is the road caster of course, is handy because that's where I'm paying all the bills and things like that. This is kind of like and I love again we just said road makes great stuff. And for me the road caster hand down somebody goes look I'm trying to take phone calls and I, wanted to remote recording but I might be a Mike Road caster does everything and what this is, it's a little four channel recorder. If you want, it will run on batteries. So if you're talking about going to remote places, that's kind of cool you can plug four Mike's into it. You can plug your phone into it via a your typical t our our our our many ours are in there cable. And it will be built in a mix minus. So that's very much like the the road caster and you can also plug your computer into it now, those will replace. Whatever so I had four microphones plugged in and I plug in my phone on the channel you have to say Okay and my listening to the excel are or am I listening to the phone input? So you're never gonNA have like six people on there at the Senate it's four and that you're getting and then you can plug your computer in somebody's on skype or whatever. You could go that route, and then you can also there's an output to where you can take your your those all assembled together and send them out be stereo to stream yard or riverside or whatever you're using and Craig. What would you pay for a lovely device like that? Gracious I don five hundred dollars. I'm sorry. You've overbid try again. Well, through three hundred dollars. That's it. It's entered bone and being that the road casters six hundred bucks. I was like, that's that's a pretty cool deal and the so I was like, what are we missing because it also has separate headphone jacks so you got four headphone out. The big thing that's missing is the effects. If you think about the road, Casper has the the big bottom in the D. Esser and the noise gate and all that built in but I was like if somebody's my whole thing is I have an h six I see it's my fault and zoom h sitting in my closet still in the box. And two weeks ago I did I is a two hundred bucks. I'm being corrected to told you that the chat room will hold keep keep you honest. That's it. Let me see here. Somebody sent me a link from the chat room I mean is two hundred I just remember thinking. Wow. It's three hundred dollars cheaper, but maybe it's yeah, everybody's telling me it's one ninety nine. There you go. I, stand corrected. It's one nine even better. And so plus it has We have our cute little a sound effects kind of stuff. There's there's four pads for those. Now, this one has eight of which I use one for the intro and one for the out tro and the buzzer sounded the applause. So again, there's four if you think about it. So yeah, one ninety nine am being told so so that'll be interesting to to see. And that's kind of what I have an eight six in two weeks ago I said I should put that on a bag because it's only going to degrade and. And now it's like because I used to be the thing. Hey, if you need to record for people here, sonate sixer good to go and now people are GonNa go. I'm just GONNA spend half that in and get this other thing. So but here's a question if you have our old school if you one, what's the? What do you mean like a jingle and Craig Craig can if you want to jump in, ask the podcast coach dot, com slash join. We'll. We'll jump on in what what are you are you talking your intro? There's a there's a lot of words there that we could go in. The wrong direction but I know I have. A weight loss show and I found a a song where the chorus is I just WanNa be thin. and. So I got permission from the it was an independent artist. I got their permission to use it which is funny because I said I would always linked to your site that the band broke up. So I now have a if somebody goes I want to buy that song and I'm like I can't anymore but I took it and made a loop out of it, and it's this whole thing about me. It's the night you are your best per only you can stop you and today we start our journey and Blah Blah has been called act. It's like forty five seconds long and I of Multiple Times said my audience too long of an intro for. One stats over then I get into. Here's what we're going to talk about today but it's like as a as an opening jingle and the reason I haven't changed. It is my audience like don't you dare like when that comes on like this one woman's like I recite that with you I've listened to your show so much you're dancing. It's kind of like my mantra she's like because I it ends with the new use starts today and she's like don't ever sound like, okay. I'M NOT GONNA but every time I hear it. I'm like I'm used to like here's the show. Here's what it's about. Will more into it and off you go. So. He. Clarify talking about intro sound. So I mean what we do like for show and for a lot of our customers shows Casto's is play music kind of just music for like five seconds maybe, and then fade the music down in run it. The intro for whatever the intro is usually twenty seconds or something like that, and then faded out entirely as they come into usually the main episode segment typically is. What we do so so can you're looking at a couple of seconds of just music and then a little bit like very soft music under you doing the intro or if you have voiceover person during the show and then just fade that out as the main episode segment starts that's what we do. There's not a right answer. Thank forty five seconds seems like a long time but David sounds like you've got. Rabid. Following. Doing it that way for so long I reviewed a show tonight that did it's a pet peeve of mine and it's something I referred to as music for the sake of nothing and it was literally like you hit play you heard. And you're like waiting for the voice over to come in and like. And then it did this. And then the show started. So it was actually just like Oh, we need intro music. Okay. Here's what's used this. And it came on. And then they just faded I. Don't like what was the point of that. So I'm always 'cause I I like I get theme music I mean I'm if I, hear. The, cheers theme or going back to the days of Johnny Carson or I used to love the roots the roots see there's an example the roots had this cool. Hey, hey, thing they did with Jimmy Fallon and all the sudden. Try. To turn the tonight show into a youtube channel basically, and it went from this like thirty seconds you need to have the Nancy going tonight's Jimmy. Show is let Baldwin data data and they're doing their hey, hey, thing and all of a sudden they got like one. Hey, hey, and that was it and it was in Jimmy's was to the model like in like It's almost cut it out. It was like we need to the Jimmy Jokes and Mike why that's usually not the best partners. Yeah. But. Everybody likes to get to the point. I'm trying behind the scenes. Trying. To find a link to the May not be. Available. I think it's available for. preorder people we're talking about the. Todd and I thought was interesting. They used. I. Think. Don't think they're going to run into a Problem with the name your here it is. It's one, nine, ninety, nine. Trying to put the contract analytics service. Yeah I was like. Track Mike Hey that I could see them than theory even though they spelled it differently. They could. Still, Kinda say I had somebody who had a show called? The lehigh valley. Something cast are forget what it was, but it turns out there was A. Mimi the Bali caster Semenya turn out. There was a a company that had that name, but he spelled it differently but it sounded the same and there were like we're going to release the hounds if you don't change your name. He was like okay. That's why it's now audio gumshoe with. I and I was surprised I had somebody this week. That had had been I won't say the names here to protect the guilty but they had a a podcast name apparently did no zero kind of research on the name and again somebody released the hounds and said that's our trademark. You can't use that name and I thought it was really interesting because. Then, they said, oh we want to. We have to change everything. So they had to all the started a whole new account and I said, great. What's the new name and they gave me a name of of mines podcast and I was like somebody is not your research on learning here. I just thought that was out I. Mean I think the lesson there like if it's a podcast name or a business name or charity or whatever just Google, what you WANNA call it I mean that that's what we did both for when we can have named Casto's and we named our podcast audience is like type that in to Google type that into apple podcasts and see what comes up and I'll tell you the one thing we learned with with. Casto's that's beneficial. Is Its unique. There's nothing else like that. That's good and bad. It's bad because people say what? What the heck is a Casto's. And the answer like is it doesn't mean anything in particular. The thing we learned audience is it is a word that is in a lot of marketing and podcast growth type podcast episodes, and so we get a little like. Negative ambiguity score of their of like it's not a really descriptive name like ask the podcast coach where somebody type that in one hundred percent would get the show so I just yeah just my two cents on naming as. You want it to be kind of short if you can I, think you want to be descriptive more than anything. Go we've seen that's always been my thing if you go up to somebody and say, Hey, I'm doing a show called blank. What do you think about? And they actually get it right Probably a pretty good name. But when I'm doing show called black fan and you're like. Okay about. Fans like ceiling fans and or it's like, no, it's about in the new they explaining like I never would have guessed that. This pod track example that it's easy to say allowed. So he knows how to spell it because there's three different ways because belt track like this right neither track AC or this pod track like zoom is. Someone running around in that oval. Yeah or you could have even the joy and I'm telling you the joy of having the name Lipson, which is short for liberated indication but it's also lipstick. Lisbon let's just like when I hear all the time. And it's like, no, that's close your voice. So close but now blueberry back there the to kind of Og podcast companies like I don't know there are a lot of good names available back then I don't know why they didn't. At the time horse that's when and I I guess I don't know if they're still evil but back, then ease were evil in if they were in your name you. Had to get rid of them and I've never quite an and it was cool at the time. But that was whatever fifteen years ago something like that and you're you're ready for the the magic of Stream Yard we've been allying this entire time says episode three, Zero Five it's technically there it is. Feel so much better. Holy. Cow. So why do you use a stream yard for for live streaming I? You Stream Yard? Why are you still use Google whatever it was called hangouts And it was cool and it went away and somebody said he'd be. There was another one vocal via. Okay L.. I. Think if I remember right because again, easer evil and. So hard I can't spell it but it's Cool sounding. And so I found stream yard. They have a free version I pay for it and it does the cool thing where I can take this and see now we're getting some feedback I liked casting. So today I can put things up like that I've got the little ticker tape e thingies keep adding more stuff to it. So like we're going to be talking about my awesome supporters, but I can put some of their names down here at the bottom in stream that across and. I can say, oh. Yeah and if you forget Craig is from Casto's DOT COM and podcast mode com and Casto's has been around since two thousand seventeen. What are you a coder by trade or what's what? What inspired you to start and I say this is Dave from the school of podcasting. Not Dave from Lipson. Why? Why just? Yeah. So I've been in the pipe gusting world for five and a half years. So I guess two, thousand, fifty, the first part of two, thousand, fifteen, I, started podcast motor, and so folks who don't know podcast motors have done for you editing and production service. So kind of you record the episode, send it to us we have a team of audio engineers they do audio with team of writers that writes show notes, published it to your website and you're hosting platform. And so. A, couple of years after starting that actually a customer ours emailed me and said Hey a friend of mine owns this wordpress plugin called seriously simple podcasting. He just got a job with automatic and some automatic has about having other wordpress related products and they don't allow you to monetize any of those and so he was like angry busy with a new job. I can't do anything other than kind of maintain this. I'd love to put in somebody's hands. You can kind of take take the plug in forward in. So we bought the plug in and built the hosting platform round that tanner question I'm not a developer, a background sales actually so I guess I'm a marketer. That's kind of that's the short version of the Orange Story. Now. If I am not using wordpress then can I you said? Yeah I can use Casto's without wordpress. Yup. Yeah. So for the first. Six or eight months you could only use wordpress. So we ended integration with sears symbol podcasting and then. Yeah, what are two and a half years ago or something we allowed to use cast us by itself so it's can you can use it as a standalone hosting platform. If you'd like a I think right now most of our customers use wordpress just because it's really nice like if you have press site for your podcast or if your podcast. Is a part of a bigger site like for ours like Casto's DOT COM is on wordpress marketing site for our business, but we also podcast. So it's nice. Just manage all of our content one place you suppler defile Aaron, the file goes to Casto's, but you're publishing your episodes from regress. It's the one thing I didn't realize because there's a couple services popping up. One is pod page. In either one, I think is podcast page and these are pretty slick tools where you throw in your RSS feed. It pulls in your information, put the player on the website, and then you can kind of customize it from that and I was talking to to mark from podcast branding dot co he goes people need to realise though yeah, those are quick. They're easy and they look pretty good he goes. But if you decide later that this doesn't do everything you needed to do. You can't take it with there's no expert with wordpress. You can basically exported it typically if you want to move to another platform or something like that, like I know wicks, you can import a wordpress stuff and things like that. So it does make it a little more flexible to to take your website with you with these other ones I think you'd be doing a lot of copying and pasting which that's always nothing more fun than a night of net flicks and copying and pasting and. then. I think. That we were talking about this before like you can always kind of change your host and redirect your feed and all that, and that's all fine like podcasts are relatively portable in that sense but. If you kind of think you should have a home base for your podcast that is not apple podcasts or spotify, which is how it should be. It should be my podcast. Dot Com is where you want all of your people to go, and if that's built on another platform and like you say, you leave that platform, you can't three Oh won. All those links to another place probably, which is what you WANNA do yeah. Otherwise all that Google juice you've you've earned. Google is GonNa hit that a couple times ago. That's weird that website doesn't exist anymore and they're not going to send people there. Any talking to try to figure it out. And you just said a magic word apple podcast as I record this hopefully, they have this solved. But if you were thinking, there was a problem with your podcast because I've published on whatever platform you are, and it's not showing up an apple podcasts they are looking into that from what I understand. Hopefully, it solved by the time you hear this, but it was they were taking their good sweet time, and this is where it gets confusing is you have the store slash search view. So if you're on the APP, it's search. If you're an apple itunes if you're still on a PC, that's the store view. That is always and I mean, always about twenty four hours behind. So when you release a podcast, it'll take hours for update but I let me rephrase that up to twenty four hours behind it's not typically but but the fun thing, and then if you subscribe to your show and this is why you want your audience to subscribe number one, they're going to get your your information all lot quicker, and the other thing is then they can also see all of your episodes. Apple only displays the last three hundred. If he got four hundred episodes and they subscribe, they get those extra one hundred but this week. They were taking their good sweet time. So Craig and I were talking before we started we had many a ticket this week on people saying it's not an apple yet. So that is like I said hopefully. been fixed and the other one is that just came out I saw Todd Cochran talking about this is Amazon slash audible. Somewhere. is going to have podcasting. Yeah Both you're nice and it's funny because they went to Todd Cochran and said, don't tell anybody and then everybody and their brother got an email saying, hey, click this link and submit your show and for anyone using Lipson, we've already told you here's how to submit to apple. There's just a button inside lips and you click on it click on an approve and add and boom and you're done a so if you're in Lipson don't follow the directions in the Amazon email, just going to Lipson and go into destinations if you're not using lipson Than follow the directions there but I'm I'm the sneaking suspicion because spotify did the same thing and people went into to Lipson added spotify and then spotify said, hey, everybody you can come in now here's the Lincoln. So lipson users would do that at it and all the sudden you now got to listings of your show in spotify which was fun so. That's going to so do you know anything else besides I I? Know I saw it was just Amazon slash audible. I'm assuming Amazon music if they're trying to do like the all, that's the other thing. Google play music is officially dead now so Three more confusing. Will play music is dead, but all of those have been ported to you to music. PODCASTS that I thought I heard James Cridland say that and I remember when he did that I was. At School, you should know put everything in one place. I just don't get it I mean it wouldn't be hard for them to just have Google podcasts have podcasts as part of Youtube. Just do all the same date. It's all in the same whatever servers just put it all their. down. That'd be great, and then also you could because I know in Google podcasts. You can go in much like in spotify stitcher and apple and see how far people listen. So now again, if you get podcast in two places, you might be missing some of those. Assets to where I just I don't know. Like Google here. You're so cute in your quirky little ways that we have. Some Dan has some insights here on Youtube Google play music libraries are transferred to youtube music because that would just make weight which. I did that and didn't see any podcast transfers over just the music that will be good podcast just pushing Google podcasts. Okay. Well, that's if they can get Google podcast is just Google play for podcast is just gone I. Don't know. Google play. Yeah it sounds like Google it. My guess would be they took Google play music and move that to youtube music. And then Google podcasts. Hopefully, they've now put into the Google podcasts parts. But that was the other thing is if you because Google spent all the time in some cases indexing, the wrong feeds which was great fun. But they did go out and scrape the Internet for podcasters. There's a really good chance. That your shows already in Google podcast. So when they sent out, the thing is that, hey, we're killing Google play music. is a really good chance you already in Google podcast. So that's again it's like on one hand gay for them to to update and move forward on the other hand. It's. Confusing. So what are you gonna do but Hey. What is people? I have a group of people who are not confused and I liked her for them. How's that for a transition as my awesome supporters if you would like to be an awesome supporter? You can go over to ask the podcast coach Dot com slash. Awesome. How awesome are they were talking? Well, first of all, they still have the teacher's pet open if you need some one on one consulting a discounted rate, you can find that again over to ask the podcast coach Dot com slash. Awesome but we always think are twenty dollars supporter. So we're talking about awesome people all I forgot holy cow Craig. We have a brand new. Supporter at the five dollar level and when it's a new person, be give him the extended shoutout and this is a really interesting concept. It's in the drop in Dot. com. And Dot Com. So I have a Typo in the slide well-done day. That's. Indeed dropped in DOT com. And it's I'm not sure. How this is GonNa work because. You Go over and you upload your show. You're an Indie podcast in the idea is they're going to go find a bunch of. Like listeners and then somehow throw some ads in between these different shows. So their job is to hey, you people like Indie podcasts we've got the best you upload your now they're not a media host, but it's somehow It's almost like a variety show where they have these feeds and they're like, Oh, you're sports broadcaster will put you in this thing. So it's I need to look at it a little more. So the because I was like well, that's interesting. What's the business model? While you guessed it they're going to run ADS. against. Your show or your episode. So the the idea is they make money by getting listeners and advertising dollars listeners. You gain exposure for this and I was like. Interesting. So I need to to look at it a little more, but indy drop in Dot Com. Thanks for being a brand new supporter. But the other regular support is we have Carl over life in the Carolinas podcast dot. Com Glenn the Geeky over Horse Radio. Network. Dot Com. Josh listen he is not your typical a career coach finding the tips of the slum dot Com Kim craggy. If you WANNA get your toastmasters on and like I've always heard about toastmasters don't quite understand it check her out toastmasters one one dot net Shane at spy buried dot com. If you like spicy stuff checkout spy berry dot com Ed Sullivan over at Sonic Cupcake DOT com. So if you like I don't know can't decide where to get your stuff edited Of course, you can always go see Craig podcast motor dot com or this Ed site makes me hungry sign it cupcake dot Com ed can take care of you as well Trescott. Aviation News Talk Dot Com Greg if you want to get your finances in order, you can find him over debt shepherd dot com and if you'd like to be awesome supporter, it's super easy just go over to ask the podcast coach Dot com slash awesome and thanks to everyone for that. So this is where okay cool. So yeah I haven't I WANNA play with that indy drop it I saw that and I was like That's a different model. Wonder what the allure would be for listeners that sonnet as you're describing that sounded to me like the I understand like as a podcast or put myself out there for them to find more listeners but the listener I would say like, why would? Guess. The matching algorithm will be really good for me to say I WANNA listen to shows about this and I think they can get me more high quality shows that I can find by myself. That's it to taft up ads in the podcast from there wouldn't be otherwise. Yeah. I know there's. A good, pods? Good reads. At somebody came up with good pods and my first question was do I have to use your APP to to do this like while the APP. But I said because you will you will pry overcast from my my cold dead hands I. said. Oh. Will you can share into good pods and I'm like Oh that's kind of cool and I've tried twice in twice. It just was like blue. So not not quite ready for that feature yet but that was like, okay that's where the where the shot let's see here I had. A we just read that. One. Craig, you ever done a show with co-host. But yeah, I have my own podcast which kind of like a entrepreneur business kind of podcasts called rogue startups have two, hundred, twenty, five episodes. Good done. How did you pick your co host? He was the third guest on my show started as. An interview show is like my third or fourth guests and a couple episodes after he's like, Hey, that was a lot of fun. We should do that more often two hundred episodes later that's kind of how I jim doing this show. I was testing blog talk radio back in the days how the show And I was doing a couple of stuff and it was just me, and of course, if you're doing a call in show the audience when I started this show did not have an audience and so jim one day was like kind of like you're struggling like you want like hop in and I'll say I've never done a co host thing. But in this case, Brian says this is from a facebook group has anybody start podcast had a strong vision for the direction you wanted to go with you choose a co host and then you have them go almost rogue and start doing things you never talked about. One, who's very particular about the audio as in really uptight about things, the couldn't really be corrected in the early stage. I. Relented sending the Audio saying I'm not GonNa make a not gonNA make any crazy changes but I'd let him check the edits I then relented to let him bake the changes he wanted. Then he got the intro and the Atra without telling the audience I was on vacation. That's interesting. I'm going on vacation but was when we went behind when he went by my back and the way I went ahead and published the episode. Went ahead, published the episode to frustrated think he means to you as in t o two frustrated to change it, I want to cut him loose. So. Thoughts. There I mean, this is this is tough. I. Mean I think having a a Co host on a podcast especially, if you you have a good number of episodes or you've been doing it for a while, is like a marriage or like a business partnership is it's probably worth at least putting all of this in a google doc and or an email and say, we're going to agree on this in this and this of course, it's not binding. It's just just a podcast but at least you you kind of. Are On the same page and you've clarified all these things front before everybody gets mad right because then then it's really hard at this point where Bryant is. Says I had some coast that I let do their own thing. They started releasing morally contradictory information from our main show. Yes that's now. In in that's the tricky part in like you said, it doesn't have to be illegal document but Dave says, we need a pre nup he kinda do and this is one of those things where. I was watching you ever watch bar rescue it's on the paramount network. So it's you have to look for a bit. The fun part is. It's always like he just saved this bar it was a mom and a son and. Mom didn't want to release control to the Sun because she still sees him as baby and when you if you have an uncomfortable conversation. It's uncomfortable for I. Don't know a minute and a half baby four minutes, but on the other side of that. You're in a much better place and that's a lot of bar rescue is is the bartender and the staff either the staff saying you're an idiot or whatever it is. But on the other side, a everybody knows what's expected. So you're the manager. Now you're this, you're that and everybody now just do their jobs and make sure you have the systems in place to do all that but you're right by having a Google Doc. I always say just like, okay I'm GonNa do the editing you're the social media so and so's going to do the website. If there's any money involved. You gotTA figure out who gets what and how much and. Who owns the show but yeah, it's it's tricky but it is in it's awkward. It really is I mean Jim and I've had that conversation about every year year and a half I mean, are we still good? He's like, yeah, it's your show do whatever you want I'm just here to have fun in talk to Mike Okay his if he ever wants to change, it's gotTa, have that conversation and it is it's awkward at the time but once you're through it will then you're actually free to just go back to making all the. Fun Stuff at that point and I think it's easier to have those conversations when everyone's rational and not upset if. They have that conversation. Now, of course, there's all this animosity and stress bundled side. So it's not a practice more difficult to have a productive. At this point of think yeah. This it's always fun seeing what's in my notes because I name them and I go what was this this was from Jonathan, he got an email from anchor and it said hey there. We're riding to notify you that we found evidence of potentially infringing content in your podcast whatever it was called as a result of it has been taken down per our terms of service. We take action on potentially infringing podcasts to protect legal entities and our users from formal copyright claims, which to me sounds like he was playing music if you have any further questions about the legality of content in. Your podcast, we suggest reaching out to illegal specialist directly. Thank you for your understanding Anchor Trust and safety. So without any warning, they just took it down. They just took it down. So Johnson was not happy. He said I thought it would launch a podcast on anchor to receive lived up to the hype and whether it would recommend it to my audience. I'm thinking he's not going to do that anymore. He said within two hours of going through the trouble of launching the podcast trailer getting the warm fuzzies. I got this email saying it was taken down. I, posted a two a two minute trailer would know in capital letters here no music ousted that even possible. Badgen having your work tied up in a company that will shut you down completely with a form email that simply says, thanks for understanding to be clear I do not understand there is no way I was in violation vending. This is huge. Red Flag. Even Youtube gives you three strikes they blacklisted. You make you jump through ticket support hoops to get back. But Wow. So everybody pay attention I've never heard of of I've heard people being taken down but usually get a warning shot of some sort. Yeah. Sure would think. So I mean like the the the big one that I see is spotify takes a lot of shows down for music because. kind of like soundcloud and the day like they're they're the only kind of crossover music podcast platform, the biggest one at least, and so there are big on taking shows down the have infringing music on it from a from a distribution perspective. But from a platform perspective, I sure think they would want to do you the favor of at least saying like, Hey, we had A. We had a claim against your show or we noticed this thing or algorithm said whatever. please. Take it down replace the media file whatever Yeah three-strikes is really reasonable. It's I know rob. Walsh. From Lipson was saying that we've gotten more take down notices. I, think it was last. Friday. Then we have in the previous sixteen years like like Sano going off a but they're. Also anchor are spotify. Even, if you do a show on like the local Saint Louis Blues scene and it's all independent people, there's no record labels involved. They've all given you permission to play their music. They still don't want you to do that show because they want people if you're going to listen to music. And that's over here this podcast they're they're of weird about that but it's their platform. So and I some people that go that's not cool. Mike gets their platform they don't there's no rule that says everybody. Just to be there. So hey, Dave how about this from Gabrielle I I heard seventy percent of podcasts on anchor our doormat you you mentioned James I thought I saw something in Pod News recently where you're someone else had done a bit of research about this Stu have the data her yeah. He let me see it on the podcasters roundtable with the Ray Ortega. The article I picked up I'm trying I'm launching slack behind the scenes here deceive. I'll give you some. They'll give folks are a give my perception on this as baron while you're searching is that I think anchor in a way makes it so easy and. It's free for people to start a show that it reasons that there are more shows that have five podcasts in five episodes and then stop than a service like Lipson Casto's or like simple gas or whatever you have to pay. Whatever even if it's ten or twenty bucks a month to keep your show alive if it's free than stands to reason, and I think they cater to more beginners that there would be more dorm shows there there would be. As. A. As. A representative of the whole of the industry. Yeah. Twenty percent or less of anchor shows have less episodes. So nobody's making you very far over their town or episodes. Yeah. So they're they're twenty twenty so less than twenty percent, and then where's the other stand I had here fifty percents of anchor shows. Just. Makes Sense number here. Let me go to the actual article, but but he basically kind of he he did one thing that I was like. and. That was he was saying that Todd Cochran it said. That if you look at all as in all from the beginning of time. Like seventy percent have pod faded well. Yeah. So did Seinfeld and cheers and Mash and come on now I don't think that's a fair comparison because let's let's take how long anchors been around and compare that to how many podcasts in that same time period of I think that would be more of a yeah. My favorite I had took a screen shot there was a podcast. PODCAST, consulting it was on an anchor on anchor and they did one episode and that was it. was like, wow, that kind of answers answers that one but yeah I I get a lot I don't know if you do I get a Lotta people from anchor that it's almost An and I say this in a loving way, it's almost like anchors like the the training wheels podcasting. It's a free way to see. He really WANNA. Do this was this fun to do Anything when they're like, okay well, we're ready to go. We're GONNA. Go get a real host now in go that route and I know James did some some research. And I need to look into this because I know. spotify just had some sort of a they put their. Reports on how profitable they are because I'm like they're spending billions of dollars, how much money is coming in because my whole thing is. Granted spotify brought they bought anchor anchor still has to be losing money because a day their business model was we're going to bring in money through sponsors and I've talked to a bunch of people that are on anchor and they all have the same sponsor. Anchor. So the one thing is supposed to be bringing in money is then they're paying you a whopping I think penny download A. so that's that's not making any money and so but James had shown how apparently. It's weird because because we have these shows that a aren't getting many downloads and be there quitting their band with bill would be just like a drop in the bucket compared to what they're paying to stream all the music. Anyway. And I was like I get that but I'm still alive as a business person on Mike. I. Don't want anything that's draining money out of my bank account. So. That's interesting. I mean I think that you see like spotify with anchor and Gimblett and other producers that they've bought, and then you look at Pandora with Ad Whiz and simple cast. Like this vertical integration by acquisition in the industry is really interesting. I think that. It makes a lot of sense if you can. More, tightly, integrate hosting in monetization and distribution. Or consumption I guess for people that are in that stack I think it will do really good because part of the what we talked about earlier is the it's so a lot of industries so desperate. Host here and you distribute there but only two percent of people listen and overcast, and that has no connection of anything else and. I think as if you compare it to something like YouTube where everything is in one vertical and they they know when they control the whole thing like for everybody's sake, it's Always. Easier for advertisers they know more. So they're more confident to to. Bet to place advertisements there. Yeah. I don't know. I. Mean I think generally a lot of this is good for the industry to get more confidence for advertisers big advertisers to come in I would love to hear from mattresses, dot com or whatever some of these people spend. Of Dollars in podcasts advertising to to see what kind of real metrics they have on it because i. The my book is five a book coming out next month called profit from your podcast and I believe it's actually coming out because it's been pushback twice. Thank you covid 'cause my publishers running on like a skeleton crew but they actually asked me like where do you want your like I get African how many books I get for for for free, I Saw, my? They're shipping me books I. Think this actually means this is going to go live this time, and one of the examples I give is legalzoom and legalzoom was working. With. Mid Roll and they did like a month. And after like a month like either this is going nowhere like we're just were lighting our money on fire like is there any way we can get out of this and they're like, okay, fine and they did and then they went another month and called them back. We have to like I. Don't know what you guys are doing over there but holy cow, what it was is is they were looking too soon and they don't realize that I mean. PODCASTS on my phone from I remember it was in July I listened to Malcolm. Glad. Well from December like because remember he's talking about Christmas and I might go on Christmas July how how fun is this and it's the same thing. So they didn't realize that their audience it was gonNA take a while to get to those episodes and when they did it finally started kicking on there like. So can we turn that back on like whatever you do don't turn that off, but it took them a while to to bring it back on. So sometimes the the effects of podcasting take awhile to it's like any other thing I mean that's why you see the same ad over over and over on TV whatever it is, it's you have to hear a message seven times through yeah yeah. Yeah, I, think I think a lot of advertisers just want more data than bacon currently get anything I. think that's what this vertical integration could do. In the the thing I was makes me scratch my head on that is I realized that with facebook you can tell like scary. What Day for breakfast on the second. Team. When there's a full moon and instead it's but in the meantime, podcasting is outperforming almost everything on the planet because of the relationship that the post has with the audience and I'm like, so why are we like they're like, Oh, well, we've gotTA move everybody to streaming I forget this download stop because we can't get the data. Mike. Yeah. But it's it's already outperforming magazine comedic. But they That's one of the things that I'm like facebook. Doggone you. So I get their point, but I'm like in the meantime. It's it's still working better than everything else You know one thing I haven't let you talk about yet about your podcast i. here's the one thing I thought was really cool your podcast. The one is audience, and if somebody goes how Craig is having a because of my podcast story right now because of his bod- cast I was like in the next time Jim is on vacation. I gotTa have this guy come on the show. I really like that podcast and what I was really surprised and I forget how I found it. But I saw it was one word. And I was like, ooh, I wonder how this is GonNa work because apple search not the greatest kids and I was typed in audience and boom there you were. So that worked really well and really liked the show. So tell if nobody's ever heard audience telescope about that. Yes. Oh we started audience really just at the end of last year and. which was two and a half years into running the business, which is a little embarrassing but but I guess better late than never. But but the goal was to to build a podcast about podcasting. And a lot of behind the scenes stuff of like how we built the podcast especially as I showed a lot of one stuff of Mike and Mike Technique in what the hell is scenario speed and all this kind of stuff, and now it's turned into a bit more about like a bit more of the advanced stuff about like. Promoting. Your podcast in an authentic ineffective way how to monetize your podcast. We had Jeff Umbro from pod glamorous on I don't know if you know Jackie's One that you said that we were talking about finding folks from from outside the normal networks. Got Armored Yeah. They're a podcast network that also does like monetization and promotion independent of their network. Yeah. So so we have a couple of different formats. We have a bit of me Kinda monologue about you know podcast one or two, a one kind of stuff. We have a fair amount of interviews with people that we think really kind of do a particular thing will in podcasting like just and then we started highlighting some of our customers that are new podcasters which I think is really cool because. I don't know Dave view this I've been in podcasting for like five years, which is a really long time in the podcasting world and I feel like we all get a little kind of stale sometimes because we know. We know a lot. We don't know everything. We know a lot about the tech in the setup and everything but here somebody's journey who's just getting started in the things they did or didn't do or enjoy or like their goals is really refreshing interesting and I'm learning ton by talking with our customers that have five episodes out. So yeah, that's what the show's all about release every Thursday and yeah, it's it's a lot of fun. Yeah I host a local. Virtual now, but it used to be an. In person, meet up once a month the. podcasters meet up and a half the reason I did. That is a it got me physically in front of either my target audience or or would also gave me a way to kind of see what people were were. Stuck on and things like that. But it was always on. So many walked in there like, yeah. This is my first time here. I'm thinking of starting a podcast I'm not and it was great because everybody there had input for this person to Indian usually, which is getting them to jump in the water and they're like really worried about an this and they're like, no forget about it. It's going to your first episodes gonNA sock. Do It anyway Rhonda's jumping in like that. So it's always great to to get that. 'cause you forget. That camera. Gabriel. Wants is audience on Stitcher it is. All up here, a quick and I think it's Casto Dot com slash audience arrived audience. There we go. So. Yeah it's It's an I did the thing it's like I. Always Tell people this is what happens I found your podcast listen to like one or two episodes. They're all good and I went into overcast my favorite button and said all and it said, do you wanNA download all whatever it was thirty six episodes that I'm Mike. Yes. Please do and so the other one I just recently found Is called the business of podcasting hosted by Charlie. Ballard V. 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Becoming Sculpture - Cameraless Photography, with Alison Rossiter

B&H Photography Podcast

1:07:56 hr | 9 months ago

Becoming Sculpture - Cameraless Photography, with Alison Rossiter

"You're listening to the beach photography podcast for over forty years being H has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favorite gear news and reviews visit us be an H. dot com or download the beach apt to your iphone or android device. Now, here's your host. Alan White's. Greetings, and welcome to the H. Photography podcast. Today, we're excited to welcome photography Alison Rossiter to the show. Allison currently has an exhibit at the SE meal Gallery titled Substance of Density Nineteen Eighteen to nineteen, forty eight, and this show runs through September twenty, six, twenty twenty will ask you about her current exhibit in a few moments I a few facts allison Ross it has worked with the materials and processes. Of Light Sensitive Gelatin Silver based photography since nineteen seventy, she studied at the Rochester Institute of Technology and the Banff Centre of School of fine. Arts Allison's darkroom is not only essential work. It's an integral part of a work whether it involves a traditional printing of negatives making photographs or processing expired photographic papers from two, thousand, three, two, thousand, five. She was a volunteer at Sherman Fairchild Center for Works on paper. And photographed conservation at the Metropolitan Museum of art in New York City. During this time, she developed a profound appreciation of the history of photographic materials, and since redirected her focus on creating cameras images on expired photographic paper. Allison is the recipient of the prestigious two thousand eighteen spillman international prize for excellence in photography. Her work is in the collection, the National Gallery of Art, The New York, public, library these. Rail Museum Carnegie Museum of Art, Pittsburgh the art, Institute of Chicago The Philadelphia Museum of Art and many more her current solo exhibit at UC meal. Gallery. Is also her third solo exhibit at the very same gallery since two thousand and ten, and each has utilized photo papers from certain years. Ears of the past century. Welcome to the show Alison Be Fun Show, Oh thank you. It's a delight to be here. So. Let's stop what I, what made you put down you camera and get serious about photography. For lack. Putting it. Well let's see put down the camera about ten years ago when I. Started collecting the photographic papers, the expired papers. But. I've had a camera in my hand since nineteen seventy. So well, actually two thousand eight is when I think I bought my first photographic paper on e Bay and and I actually wasn't looking for it. I was trying to buy. old sheep film on Ebay. One day I realized that I couldn't go to be an age and by five by seven sheet film. So that's what sent me to Ebay and in one shipment of. Expired film that I was buying someone sent me a box of paper and that paper was an Eastman Kodak. Ko-? Bromide. East. Surface that expired in May of nineteen, forty six. And I was quite surprised at this object. Didn't really know what to do with it and I decided to test it. So I pulled a sheet out from the middle of the cleanest pack of paper within this large box. And send it through my darkroom chemistry and rather than a clean white sheets that we would expect to see in the fixer at the end. This looked like someone had. Rubbed graphite over a rough sheet of paper, it looked like a rubbing and to me. It looked like a completely perfect conceptual drawing from corner to corner. And that started the search for photo paper. I was so surprised to see that it was the failure really of the emotion of this light sensitive in motion. That was just. Sixty years old at that point, sixty years old and it could no longer do the job it was designed to do. It was degrading and the degradation to me was absolute beauty. So is it safe to assume that against since you started shooting back in nineteen seventy? You are already well versed in in chemical doctrines. You win the student lodging paper while whole thing the whole photographic process. Yes. Okay. So, this was like a true Aha moment because this was already a something you've been doing by by wrote and also go boom look look what look look what happens with this. That's exactly it. I was. I had. Decades of experience by that point to the point where. It is wrote it is a language. It's like shifting gears in standard transmission you just do it automatically so. This was it made a lot of sense to me why the print looked the way that it did. But. I had never encountered it before and so that was a brilliant surprise. And was was it at the time? Did you feel don't know how to say like were you nervous about kind of following that path? Kind of breaking from the photography had been doing. Did it did it feel like a an evolution was just so exciting that there was there's no turning back at how how the process of kind of of transitioning to do this kind of work. At that point. I had been making photographs so I should correct myself. I hadn't been doing a lot of camera work for. A long time but I have been making photographs. Since the late nineties. And in early two thousands I decided that I would. Skip trying to find an object to place on the photo paper because that demands that you be clever and find a beautiful object that somehow transcends. Just the combination and becomes something else something more wonderful by the process of photographs. But I decided that I would just use late and I found all sorts of little penalites and mask them off in I was drawing with light on photo paper. And so There were many experiments. Dealing with. The darker responses of paper of black and white gelatin silver. Paper. And it was really the perfect homework that led me into understanding what was happening on the expired papers. So I. I have a few light drawings that are out in the world and. When I was drawing. I decided that I needed a subject. So I drew horses. From twelve years old, I've always been fascinated. So I drew horses in the first ones I drew looks like cave animals drawings, but that refined itself in and A. Learned a lot from it and I realized that I'd really rather be back with photography drawing something. Put me in the realm of. Book in a realm that I knew nothing about. And I had a great time doing it. But. It allowed me to see that swath of. Tonality can be created just by light and the proximity of a flashlight to a piece of paper surface. It can be as sharp as a pinprick at an look like a magic marker line or be soft and. Look like a watercolor. Watercolor. Pigment on paper. Lots of experiments you are taking expired papers, and again is you can't call up Kodak or actor and ask for recommendations about you know now that you paper is seventy years at a date, how do I a permanently affixed it? So I could sell these sprints and tell the people. Yes it's GonNa last one hundred years How do you fix these images and Wilson wants you do fix them? Does it do these fix? It gives Do they do anything to change the effects you've already achieved and how well do they lock them down an hour they holding up so far will be time as far as you can tell. As far as I can tell, they are absolutely stable and doing very well. I. decided that from the very beginning that I would just use the developer that I have always used dental more with Stop House and Fixer Kodak powdered fixer. It's not a rapid fixer rapid fix found bleaches the images toward the end of the process. So just the plain old the powdered fixer was what I used and that really those. Formulas are fairly similar to The chemical development that has gone from gone on from the beginning of developing out paper. So hundred. Interesting and so a very consistent that way and I follow procedures. As, most people in a dark room would there. Was Double Fix. So it's very clean hypo clear and I haven't heard these phrases so long keep talking I. Love this. Is there a community of people that you've kind of found that that likes to work with expired paper that or a related you know medium? Yes. I have friends who are doing this. One is Chris. mccaw who lives in California and he makes sunburned prince I don't know if you're familiar with this body of work but. He. was photographing the son in his large format view camera one day, and he had paper loaded in his film holder not fill any fell asleep on the beach and sure enough the lens behaved like a micro up like a banged find glass and just seared align as he was asleep for four hours. And so when he took the paper home and saw what looked like and processed it. It was an old paper. that. Sola. So, there was the appearance of a landscape of an ocean horizon, but it had a physical burn all the way through the paper they're magnificent. And So he collects a certain type of paper and we met each other. He actually shows that the Millo Gallery to. Met because of paper and So that's one brilliant one, and then there's Marco royer another photographer artist who? Uses color work and if I ever came across cold color materials, I would pass onto him. Well. AGFA. Used to make while inserted. Kodak. I started with it out fiber base colored paper. So these are relics that I find on ebay occasionally. I definitely want to get to some of the questions about sourcing of the paper but first question have you. Used, the word experiment a couple of times in talking about the process. So is that really what's at the heart of this I mean are you totally open with with all the the wonderful accidents that happen or how how much control do you try to exert? ENEMA follow up to that is I mean is light. The medium that you're using that how you feel it or or is it is the paper as the chemicals? What do you feel? You know closest to win? You're when you're creating these prints. Let me describe what it's like to find a package of paper and begin. I, take it down into my darkroom under safely. And look at it, and sometimes I can see that it has mold all over the surface or. That, it's been cracked or bent or whatever physically. It's only upon development that I see what's actually going on. But I treat that seventy year old paper as though it was something that I just bought. Yesterday I want to make sure that I'm not exposing it to light. What I want to see is what? Time has done to these sheets of paper inside the package and With. The passage of time. The silver salts lose their stability. and Go back to metallic silver through oxidation I, mean these are. Fancy words it just means that's the emotion becomes exhausted and it it. Performs in odd and wonderful ways. A manufacturer would be terribly upset by seeing these things happen. I am thrilled and so I look to see what's in the package and I. The first thing I do is develop the top feet on the stack. That's the one that Willoughby of it will have absorbed. The atmosphere chemical pollution changes in humidity all sorts of things. The real marks for going to be on that first top sheet of paper and sometimes on the very bottom sheet of paper. They're cleaner on the way on the inside of a stack but. Sometimes there's nothing and It's just. Either a gray sheet of paper because of overall fog or black sheet of paper from either someone else exposing it. Or Or just exhaustion. And sometimes it's clean white it the. Surprise what I like is finding package of paper that someone else has used. Because then Possibly, that person has touched, the paper was in the package and I will find their fingerprint. When I develop it, it will look as though someone had rolled a finger through INC and left on the paper that's the oil in our hands is enough to disturb the light sensitive paper and leave a mark so. It is these marks that I'm looking for and. So I am not exposing them I'm. Doing nothing but find what's there. In its pure sense these papers were designed to be these developing out papers were designed to be exposed and processed, and I'm living time take care of the exposure half of equation, and I come along and carefully developed these to my best ability so that that they create an image after all that time. Since. Starting this aspect of your career, this part of your work, what has what would have you changed in your your thoughts about photography I? Mean you obviously still photographer it is photography and but there is so much else going on I mean there is this element of history of of archival work in. Science to some degree you have have you re reef thought what photography is to you? Yes Sir I have. I have photograph conservation to thank for that. As you mentioned, I spent two years volunteering. In the Conservation Department at the Metropolitan Museum and. I was observing I wasn't. I. Wasn't acting as a conservative I have no papers nothing I. They just allowed volunteers to be part of the program and I would go do whatever I could to help them. And In. Being fly on the wall in that fantastic photo lab. I found that photo conservators no. More, photo history that I know and not only do they know the practitioners Zeno that chemistry and they know the materials and I found that fascinating? I went through materials and processes class at Rit and as an eighteen year old kid it went straight over my head all I WANNA do be out shooting Mike Camera and but I kept all of my textbooks and I refer to them now because they have the answers that I'm looking for. But I just realized that there was another fabulous history of photography and it was through this exposure photo conservation that I. Found that you could get a master's degree studying one paper I mean how fantastic is Sounds pretty good shopping that degree around must be kind of tough looking for a job and Photograph on fixing orbiters will be the ones taking care of all these beautiful gelatin silver papers that still will be around in the future or yeah Oh. Yeah I as a question I'd like to ask you I watched the Youtube interview with you and in it, you described the tonality of different vintage papers is the way and I think the way a wine enthusiasts with gushed about grapes, vintages, and growing regions. Am I the first person pick up on this because seriously it's it's it's not much different listening to compensation. That's a marvelous analogy. Yes I from handling many of these papers. Through different decades I can see the subtle differences a I can anticipate now what some what might happen when I find a package, but I'm always surprised. If something different happens but yes. There were many manufacturers of photographic paper and they all had particular appearances and the variety that. By nineteen seventy. I thought there were plenty of papers to choose from, but it was nothing compared to what was available from the Twenties Thirties just a fabulous rig of cream colored papers, brilliant whites, different color blacks. Surfaces that we will never see again. So. Here's I was always big on AGFA portray rapid I always thought that was a lovely paper with a little bit of toning to it. It was great. And chemists can tell you why and I had never thought of why. So that is. The either I'm not a chemist I'm not a scientist but I am curious I read some of these things like murder mysteries there. There's molding problems for me. To do on that very note, do not do you have. You ever noticed any differences working with variable contrast papers, versus fixed contrast papers? And for people who have no clue what we're talking about you want to give a fast explanation of that. Shall I or? Actually, I can do that. Okay. It used to be the and probably still is if you WANNA print paper, they were usually depending on the manufacturing paper three to five maybe six grades of contrast you had a flat negative and you wanted to pump bit. You can get a contrast, your paper or if you negative controversy printed on a flat paper and then the opposite choice was variable contrast paper which and actually had a multiple contrast layer is and then you would put a filter in front of your lands usually different shades of the yellow spectrum and depending what filter it would pierce different ways of the papers you can control in one paper get different contracts. And even. From, the same negative I used to burn in dodge different countries filters to get different layers in anyway. So variable contrast which has all contracts and infix contrast. There's explanations. My question to you is do they react differently in the process that you working now? No they would they. would be the same a great paper and a variable contrast paper will. Will do the same thing in the chemistry. It really is matter of. In my work what has happened to the paper. Or it comes to me I have really no idea what eighty years of storage how many times did this place come out of a moldy basement or military base or? Sadly now if you go to Ebay. Will see listings where people open the box to show you that there's paper in it. With yes. In this. Again for those people not familiar with dark rooms. You can't open the box. It's light sensitive that ruins the paper, but it's a loss language and that's lost craft. It's gone art. and. You had mentioned the the military base in ahead read that you you able to find or somebody turned you onto Twenty four by twenty sheets of Dupont defender Varia game. Very GAM. Paper in nineteen fifty, four Can you speak on on that subject of sourcing a bit and and and again you mentioned Ebay is that kind of the the main avenue to find paper or do you have a network now if people that are reaching reaching out to a hey, look what I found. I. ebay is absolutely My major source or it was I have to say there's hardly anything left. My. Curiosity with the expired papers. Hit in two thousand eight, and that was really the point at which people were beginning to get rid of there wet dark rooms. And Ebay was there to sell stuff. Everything I have probably should have been thrown away I mean that any of my papers have survived over one hundred years Is Remarkable. It really should have been tossed in the garbage. So ebay is one source. Ninety nine percent and word of mouth has. brought. Offers of paper to me which Art The they're terrific and my really the best thing that ever happened to me in terms of. A paper gift was. About, six or seven years ago a photographer named Pierre Cordier. Who is known for camera grams he is a Belgian artist who does magnificent work without a camera with chemistry on photo paper, and she is in every major museums collection on photography's absolutely wonderful in his eighties at this point. A friend of his New, York introduced him to my work and he Offered me a gift of half of a ten meter role. Of. Give. Art Gabala velour paper. Which is considered in photo conservation circles to be the best paper ever produced at any time is that lure black? Nova velour black is defender and defenders of beautiful paper, and that's one of the favorite papers of Edward. Weston. Okay. But it's this is velour referring to its surface? Yes. Yes. Sir. Alex was its name and. I immediately said, yes I would love this gift and all I had to do was pay for the creating the shipment of this fifty inch role in he gave me the original box and it sat in my dark room in here in New Jersey and I didn't know what to do with it a didn't want to cut it up. Its size was its magnificence. I didn't know how process it. I've done large role papers in my darkroom but. This needed special attention. So it sat for. Five years six years until this past January. When I went up to Hank's photographic in Westchester where? That lab specializes in processing role papers, large role papers, gelatin silver, and. So this. Package. Of paper originally belonged to another photographer named Joseph Kaya See a y. e. t. and he was a Belgian portrait photographer. And this was his paper and it sat in his studio through World War. In Brussels and so I have the provenance of the paper and it comes to me from two. Fantastic. Belgian photographers. To me and. When I processed this paper, these prints I made was able to make three large prints out of my five meter gift and they are in the Yosi exhibition. And The paper surface feels like sandpaper. It is the flattest paper surface. It reflects nothing. So lack looks like velvet. It was an expensive paper to produce in the. Company thought we're going to do it. We are going to be the people who produce the best paper so if you are printing for your Sal, long competition. You're going to buy the paper that costs three to five times more than anything else that's ever been produced. So it was in production for maybe fifteen years I. Don't know if it actually was produced during World War Two, but it was from the nineteen. Thirties to the mid fifties. So. That's a long story for and then I guess that's what led. Well also act revert that made the the Velvet, the black paper that I remember using back in the sixties portraits and it was it was a lovely paper. He not. It's it's different from what you're describing. It has a lot of the same characteristics. It's really funny. I'm listening to describe a lot of these things and a few years ago we traveled up to Honi neo falls I think I'm pronouncing it correctly You, know of it. Oh, it's Rochester there's a fellow named. Dick. And Him and his wife Joan. They are the proprietors in primaries film spoilers at film classics, and what they do is they gather old expired films, rolls, and sheets, and the basically re repackage. If they get lodge bulk rolls of film, they'll Spool it to one, twenty, seven whatever and they cut it down themselves. But these are like the last two peoples who are making one, twenty, seven and six, hundred film available. I think being age still carries a lot of this stuff but every time you open up a role, it's literally hand rolled films and they don't make money on this. This is like an act of love. Is there anybody like this out there that you know of who is like sourcing paper this way? Aside from you. Well. No I don't I'm I'm actually amazed and totally really impressed by these people who've hand cut one, twenty, seven film. Sink of all the Fabulous Little One, twenty seven. Cameras that are you know available for a song and a dance now and how cool would it be to be able to use them I did and it is yes. Yes there you go and. No there are people who have tried. To, make their own papers. Were for a long time. the Chicago albumen works. Imported the last. Printing out paper produced in France, and it was called Centennial and printing out paper is the kind of paper that you take out into the sun and darkens upon exposure, and you can check your exposure and see where you are, and that does not need a chemical development. It's just A toner fix run a toner. They were sort of the one source for that, and then I think there was a company called. Low Dima. That was producing another printing out paper. You mentioned you have a dark room in your house Do you also now create a space that's in archived some degree, destroy this paper or is it just in your dark room and you do the best he can. Well, my paper has been through. Hell I you know. It's true. You can't get hurt any further. It really I don't know but I won't contribute I won't store it in my garage whatever you know I. In my house I have in my basement their room. I have wire shelving and that holds. Bins that have. Seals so I can lock them down and so if there was a flood, these would float away. They would not image the paper and I have a studio in Chelsea, and that has the same situation and for a number of years I've had a friend who is a photo conservative. come work with me and she has created database of my papers and we. Are, not, even we're not finished but I'm up to seventeen hundred that have been documented and seventeen hundred really good ones. Haven't touched my papers from. documented them from the nineteen fifties up to the present. I found that some. The older papers were the ones that really charmed me. This is you know so amazing that able to hold a paper from eighteen, ninety seven. With a stamp on the package proving that it was made and sent from the. The factory that day now in how much time do you spend any dark room I mean our daily do you do long long sessions whichever you process like? SORT BINGE WORKER I I. Like concentrated. Were time, and so I want everything out of the way. So. That I can start on one day and just keep going for weeks if possible and An anything outside of the house will sort of disrupt that. So I. I like working one day on good for about four five hours Max. In a darkroom, it's a little dark room and And then there's a lot of washing and then there's post production these papers. I air dry them and they roll up like potato chips. They then have to be humidifier side in a chamber. It's really easy to do, but that relaxes the paper overall and then those sort of damn papers are put in between. Marvelous Polyester will serve gortex material they dry and they dry. Between blotter papers and with weight on top of them. And then twenty four hours later few days more I will then. Inspect them and they go under. Board disputable clean surface Mount Board and again with weights on them. So it takes a long time to get one of these through not only the wet process but through a really proper drying process and flattening. So? I'm washing dishes basically by you know in the wet chemicals for a number of hours, and then I know that I still have lots of. Post production work to do. So I like doing in concentrated blocks of weeks and and then I take a breather. And I get to think in my dark room all by myself and I have to say the one one place in the world where I think I know what I'm doing. About any other read? Down there. And it's quiet and I I. Do have the radio I listen to. NPR. Listened to stories being told to me and and just concentrate on what I'm doing and it's safe and quiet and. Fantastic Okay, we're GONNA take a short break for traffic and weather, and we come back more with allison rosters. Stay tuned. We, hope you're enjoying this edition of the H. Photography podcast. The best way to support the show is by subscribing on podcasts. Google, podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for links to gear and more information on today's guests. Check out the show notes and your podcast APP or visit our homepage the. Explorer website and joined the B. N. H.. Photography podcast facebook group, and now back to the show. Okay we are back a John wanted to ask a question. Yeah. My question kind of extends a little bit from from our conversation about your work in the dark room but. I WanNa know from there because you know the the final product at least on the wall of a gallery. Is so organized it so tight and there's the configurations of of the various papers next to each other, and then of course, the frame sex to each other one does that aspect of of the work come into play these start thinking about that in the dark room or or do you wait and then take a look at the papers and and then figure? Okay. This needs to go with this or is that all kind of preplanned even before you get into the dark room. Oh. No, it's not pre plan but. I have a method and it's pretty simple For this body of work as in the exhibition I wanted to go through my collection of. In chronological order. And assembled that way so that I'm creating a time line. With the dates of the expiration of these papers on the packages and By doing so I'M Hoping to. Suggest. The dates as world history. And A. So It actually began at the New York Public Library two years ago. I was part of a group show cold. Anna Atkins refracted I, decided in honor of an Atkins. Very the first person to illustrate a photo book She. Had a collection of botanical samples and this was the basis of her work and I thought well, I. Have a collection of expired photo papers. This will be my work, and so I began with my very earliest paper and. Just started processing progressively through the years and It just turned out with the curator's that the first twenty one years of my collection, what they were able to show on the wall. So we started at eighteen, Ninety, eight through nineteen, nineteen and. I wanted. Again these. These pieces assemblages I. Wanted them to be arrayed in chronological order. So the first few pieces, how many papers have from eighteen ninety eight not many. And then I might I have an eighteen ninety nine but I, have a nineteen hundred. So the very first piece in that group which I called compendium. was those two papers and there were six prince in the the assemblage, and so they were they made perfect sense and they fit together perfectly five by seven and four by five pieces They were wonderful standardized sizes that Kodak produced and the Para Chemical Company these Rochester based photo. Producers. Until they fit together like puzzles and it really is me sitting down with a clean table and my stacks of prince from different years arrayed front in front of me. And I just start with. Like, one key one, what what would be the most interesting the thing that I have from nineteen twelve. And then I find something from nineteen thirteen, and maybe the things from nineteen eleven were interesting and I I that's how that was. My rule was to try and keep this as a progression. Chronologically. and. So. That was my guideline was simply going through and I was not. so well versed in the history of the world, but my expired papers have. Triggered a new fascination and so I wanted to know what was going on in one thousand, nine hundred. What was happening in eighteen ninety eight turns out that Mary. Pure. Breed discovered radium and polonium. and. These are things. These were scientific explorations that were fascinating to me and different. Literature was written in these times and so. I didn't provide a list of these kinds of prompts historically I I came to them after the assemblages so It's not like I had made a master plan I just found. How these things. Fell together visually for me. by shuffling them on a white piece of paper and I should say that my presentation is that the prince. Dry mounted they're not totally affixed to aboard they are hinged. Carefully, in all four corners of the prince and so because they're for the most part gelatin, silver materials They absorb humidity they flatten when it's dry they they react to the atmosphere. So by hinging these prince. You get to see that they are print a are an object and and they fluctuate with time they're basically alive. They're responding to their environment. So that was important to me. their little individual sculptures. Exactly. That's actually a word I was gonna I, was gonna use it seems like you know once once you're done with the darkroom technique, you're looking obviously the historical element, which is an important and then it becomes. A A compositional element that is more Kim to sculpture or painting even Not Maybe, not the brushwork but. you compositional element and do you feel? I don't know does photography. GonNa take a backseat at that point or is it all as? Photography? Photography is out is absolutely the the. It is photography becoming sculpture flap sculpture. It photography is always at the base of it. In. The nineteen twenty s which is when the bow house. was founded in nineteen nineteen in Germany and this great school had. Many has influenced design today and so I would make. Print assemblages from papers of the years of the bow house in their different locations and. I felt as though I could. Take these into the bow house for homework. It was. They were. The. The assemblages were reflective of the design. Methods that were being taught the school, and it's just because of the way the shape and size of the papers fall together. Someone else would have put these things together differently and I have no rhyme or reason for how they fall together. It's just. To My and And it's been really fun to do it because this is not my background and a so I have stumbled into abstraction. By. Sheer chance. To chance of a paper performing beautifully in my darkroom is again. A. Chance and And Lock it's The one thing I will say is that I was extremely determined to buy everything I could possibly get my hands on. So I think I single handedly ruined the Ebay market for expired paper. You see people asking outrageous prices for something that looks pretty common. It's probably because. I established the fact that someone will pay for. It by the way, what you're saying is a holds true for discontinued polaroid's films. I have a couple of polaroid cameras and if you try to buy stuff online it, it's it's extortion really really is I mean you spend like hundred dollars for eight pictures but there's a market, and again, these things don't exist anymore. So people willing to pay for it. That's right. They're not making any more of it. So when I see something from nineteen fourteen I, want it. These are like like. Lottery tickets in the scratched whatever is there a treasure inside? Am I going to you know this is going to be the bonus card of is this going to be a spectacular paper You never know so You never know what to the bottom of that box rate and I should. Also saying that. There were other people collecting paper when I jumped in. There were people one particular man Paul Messier. Photo, conservative from Boston who now runs the lens based research lab at Yale University but he was buying papers ten fifteen years before I was and he was concentrating on the American market and I found that there were Ebay offerings in all over Europe and in fact, all over the world and so I have a significant European collection from that. But yes, there were other people the Getty Museum was buying paper to study it. And what's interesting is they were buying these things to. Identify. Papers that are in museum collections. Edward West. Would F stop he used in what developer but you know didn't always write down what paper? I'm just say Edward West at he may have, but there are a lot of. Will the majority of photographs? Don't have paper identification. So that's what Paul Messy that was the reason he was buying papers and when I jumped into the market I it, he told me that I was his worst nightmare. We're friendly. I mean, we're it's creed and he can have it anything of mine. told me that I can. Dip into his collection to but. He was so pleased that someone was doing it from an art angle that that there was life in these papers not just for. An academic study but for. The purpose of art. and. You feel that you would have had this kind of connection with this type of work as younger person or or or is this kind of ability to reflect on on dates and think back even if they were clearly dates for your born something that has come with age Oh. That's so interesting. John No. I haven't thought of that really good question. I. Would not have. been able to do this work. At a younger age I. Wouldn't have understood the significance of the materials and when I was younger materials weren't a question they were they were available. And it really is with the disappearance of really the end of. Gelatin. Silver production for the most part of their Q. wonderful companies still producing but It is. It is the at the end of chemical based. light sensitive materials that got my attention and and I'm more patient at this age than I ever was I. I've always been in when a jump on something and get it done and the first out the door but I. Really have settled into this. And I'm so happy that this idea Discovery of just. Just processing the papers to see what happens. Came to this is interested in let's say things from the past apply in other aspects of your life I mean, do you have? Do you look back to the books or? Any other kind of items to take with this kind of reverence and respect or is it strictly through your photographic practice? I. I say I'm a slow learner I learned my lessons inner either the hard way or. Just from age and so My general impatience as a younger person pushed me into action and that was a great educations at way and now in a slower. curated for me I think and and I don't know if I allowed myself to think as much as I allow myself now. An end it's about photography I wouldn't have sat down to read a book. About. The history of the discovery of photography. When I was twenty years old I wouldn't have done it. Even if I had been signed it I would have skimmed through it to just be able to answer a couple of questions on the exam Now, I do it because I'm really interested in it and it's backup. It's resource material now for certainly for the expired papers, but it makes sense of. I'm a twentieth century photographer. I studied started in nineteen seventy and I was taught by people who learned in the forties and fifties. So my education is firmly planted in. The history. Of. Chemical Photography and I'm happy with that. I I know is enough digital material to document my work and that's about the extent of it Eileen that curiosity to photographers now. and. I assume. Then you're still get pretty excited in the dark room. I mean. There's still that joy when when something you know ears and. I I'm looking at some images right now from from an older exhibit called paperweight. and. Can you talk a little bit about how you do work in the dark a little bit how you at least maneuver and manipulate you know the best get to get some of the images they do come out because certainly some are are more controlled. Yes I. When I found that a paper. Would only turn black and the developer and I, had a lot of it. I decided that I would give myself permission to do selective development and that really was mean making a mark on the paper. The. First Direction of this is justifying what time has done and with this other. Direction I am absolutely it dipping one corner of the paper into the developer long enough for it to make diagonal line, and that is a tremendous power that's mark making that is deliberate and Many of these papers are very small and. Some of them are for by five inches. But if you put four of them together in in as a quad, they become in an eight by ten or a ten by eight whatever. Variation and so I started dipping. Papers in developer with. So there would be a white area dark area, and then putting these four together to hopefully make something that looked like another shape in the center of this configuration of four. And they looked like awkward. Geometric constructions and a? This led to me. Adding a tiny bit of a midtown by very quick dip in the developer rather than a long steady. And just was able to make. Four prints look like one geometric shape was balancing on top of another geometric shape. Just by the subtle suggestion of shading and. And that was fun and so that made me feel like I certainly was a sculpture sculptor. But it's all all of it. Is Me trying to find how to make a mark on these papers? To produce some sort of an image with a very limited bag of tricks. I decided early on I'm not taking a paintbrush I am not going to brush on developer that would beat make me a painter. So I know nothing about being a painter, but I do know how to rock a tray in a dark room and I know how to poor chemistry and so I just use these simple. Physical movements to create. Imagery. And It's fun when I can make something look like Like a lake. INSKEEP and Techniques. That artists use if you pre wet paper. Then, the developer will spread like watercolor pigment If you don't pre wet the paper, then you'll get a nice hard line when you hold it in the developer just it's it's all pretty simple bumbling in the dark room in that is basically my experimentation. A. Pretty much a deck toll person and. And so I'm not experimenting with different chemistry. When? I have printing out papers, I will. Goal. Tone them. That's the way those says, but that's again the same way. A printing out paper would have been processed in nineteenth century so. Following the instructions. And I guess I know we talked a little bit about this earlier, but I don't WanNa follow up again in in this context then when when you combine these images or or these sheets together. Is that process. Done kind of at a separate time. Do you kind of go back to what you've you've created in China Hawkins. Then you know put these together to mean something else or even how alight arranged them within the gallery space to mean something else in is at process collaborative with the the gallery owner or you have that. In your mind before you go in I, take care of the The assemblages in my studio and I let Yossi Mierlo hanger show and he does an absolutely spectacular job of it. He. Give him full. Power, to, arrange my work. The way he believes it should be presented with the exception. In this show I wanted a chronological timeline and he he made a beautiful one. It is sort of sallow style hanging there prince on top of each other of frames on top of each other in a line, but it does follow. scrunched logical order in it's a spectacular installation. Not, very good at that that is something that I? I'm amazed at the the appearance of the exhibition. Thanks to his. Choices. I. I will sit down as I described with piles of papers from different years and in my studio I have large of. Museum board and. A white tape. And I will all of my prints are in mile our sleeves and I put them together and Then I. Taped them into position and I put that on an Easel and I look at it and I it either works or it doesn't, and sometimes I just don't know what the problem is and I'll let it sit there and come back a day later and maybe a third and. Something works by replacing a piece and. Again, that's fun. That's amazing. So With this work I I. Allowed myself time to strictly process the staff and not worry about what it was going to look like I just needed to get through thirty years of my collection and Plus the trips to Westchester to do the the one taper but. Then the studio work is just It's quiet. It's. Just me thinking about the papers and So it's Mental is and then I have a fabulous Framer Minagawa art lines and I am not the person hinging those beautiful papers onto that board they are and I met Yasuo Minagawa before he died and he Produce absolutely beautiful frames. He designed the white frame that I use for me. He thought this would be a good presentation for this work. he upon his death, his studio manager took over the studio and they continue to make his designs. We've been discussing a lot about the papers that are discontinued old stuff that's out of date, and what's interesting is that even though digital is the dominant media photography right now, there has been a resurgence of chemical dark rooms of film of paper of analogue photography, including a number of enlarging papers that have been brought back to life and I am not mistaken even some new paper surfaces. Do you have any interest in playing around with these or you just gonNA stick to vintage? Oh i. I am interested. Absolutely I have I have ideas and I'm going to need fresh new paper for them. I have to. have to regain my credibility as. Handling the expired papers is all about them. And the Imagery Day Produce and new work will be about camera based. Work so So I look forward to that, and I'm really glad they're still producing some beautiful stuff. Just wanted to say something about the expiration dates. They really were a manufacturer's way particularly Kodak Eastman? Kodak. To say that beyond a certain date, they will not replace the package early photographic materials had prince printing papers had lots of problems. The emulsion would blister There might be streaks in the emotion there were little slips of paper inside the paper package saying, okay here write your name and address and tell us what your problem was. Send your bad prince back to us and we will replace your paper. That's what expiration dates were. They were actress tool it was not about. A device. About a guarantee European papers there did not use expiration dates. Papers produced in France and Belgium in Germany. No expiration dates alison. Have you have you come across any paper that has a connection to your own biography anything that might have been Created or pass through hands to where you were born and raised and is or anything like that. That's come about in your life. Or in this I should say in this part of your life in this part of your work in the sense that when I was born in Nineteen fifty three. So whenever I find a Kodak or any paper with an expiration date on it, that has nineteen, fifty three, I want it because it's going to be a personal portrait. So in that sense. Yes. But not necessarily a location photographers who have died I of come into their papers and I have used their papers with Sam, in mind specifically, and so in some form of producing something new with their paper I, want it to reflect them through my process and I have some Ray metzker paper. I have well wouldn't mean anything to you. Cheryl Ganyana. French A. Montreal photographer. It just means a great deal to me that I have these papers from A. From either photographers knew personally or photographers in history who whose work I admire. Pretty. Cool. So currently. At the Millo Gallery is your show substance of destiny nine, hundred, nineteen, forty, eight it over March, and it's going all the way through September. Can you talk a little bit about Any changes? I mean is there a physical show right now? Can people enter the gallery and take a look at it? And what changes as far as you know, have been made given the Cova situation we're in. Well, the exhibition. On March sixth. And the Gallery closed on March thirteenth. And so it was open for a week. The show sat. Through the closed months. For closed months Yosi has been determined. To. Allow people a chance to see this work and I'm extremely grateful to him. For this opportunity. He could have taken whole down and reopened with a new show. Not Have. The the memory of the march disaster but he. Takes appointments the gallery is open but they would rather people. Arrange for an appointment to go in. So they can control how many people are there and It's a very easily done and. So he's doing me the favor. Of of the summer and through September two possibly have this be seen I've been. Pleased to see that it has received. A wonderful press and so. So. It's sort of a lifetime achievement for me. I. Really. I'm. Very pleased with the work that's in the gallery and I'm glad that there is a chance to see it. It's wonderful and tomorrow there's a special event going on. The Dr Dr Type of book sale that the best way to describe it how this is again, a brilliant idea on your part, it's a curbside book signing. Isn't it great and Drive by. By and. I should be on roller skates. The book is Compendium Eight Thousand Ninety eight through nineteen nineteen. This is a book brand new. From radius books? About. The twelve pieces that were in the library, new? York? Public Library. Exhibition absolutely beautiful book. And so that's what I'll be signing to anyone who has the wherewithal to come to the curbside of the UC meal O. Gallery what floors the gallery located on its ground floor Oh because I think it was on the second and third floor, you could open the window with a Bungee cord step out the window, sign the book and shoot straight back up, it'd be pretty quick and easy. Knowing you Blissett he also. The bungee cord. Yes and I do it too hot. They'll be an umbrella they'll be a table there'll be people in masks and gloves. It will all be well done but most it's such a smart smart idea to do something fun. With again, the limited. Capabilities we have right now you work with what you got. That's right, and also for our listeners take a look at USC. UC MEAL DOT COM. That's why O.. S. S.. I.. M. I. L.. O. Dot Com, and there's a good sampling of the images online clearly, not not the best way to see them but. Especially, if you're not in New York and you can't, you can't go by the gallery. Okay. Thank you so much has been terrific talking about old paper with you amongst other things new monograph compendium eighteen, Ninety, eight to nineteen nineteen, which was co published by Radius Books New York Public Library and Yossi Miller Gallery, and that's currently available online at radius books dot Org and also Allison's first monograph which is called expired paper from two thousand seventeen. That's also available at radius books and other online retailers and you can also check the Website for more info on the current exhibit. There's one thing that I'd like to say that I didn't just one sentence. The papers themselves are so beautiful that. To see them in person is the way to understand how they might possibly be a narrative of time. I get that because I think for most people including many of our listeners for most of us many of us are total experience of. This Dana and age. Is Little Dots on a glowing screen and when you turn the power of the go away. These images as lovely as they might be, and as one of the photographs might be, there's something about seeing many of these images on physical piece of paper, and if you could go over to the paper and see the texture and the edges of it, and if you could handle the print, wash your hands carefully soap and water. WanNa ruin him. There's something very interesting about the tactile experience of a print that of course you never get. From an electronic image so there are many levels of satisfaction you can get from a print and the images that you have had that a dimension to them of time timing color and tone, and and vagueness for lack of better words, and there's so much room for your imagination to run I mean yes. Spent time in front of a piece of paper that you know is one hundred years old He's a lot to chew on. Alison thank you is wonderful speaking with you today. Thank you very much I've enjoyed this. It's been wonderful to talk about these things. Terrific. Okay. That's a wrap of another show. If you are not subscribing to the Dean h photography podcast, what you waiting for head on over to apple podcast Google. PODCAST stitcher already subscribe to the PODCAST and sign up. It is absolutely absolutely three until next time on behalf of John and Jason. My name is Alan White and as always thank you so much for tuning in to day.

Ebay Eastman Kodak developer allison Ross Metropolitan Museum H. Photography Rit AGFA National Gallery of Art Edward West New York New York Public Library Millo Gallery York Alison Rossiter John No Rail Museum Carnegie Museum of Rochester e Bay
David duChemin

Photography Radio

42:40 min | 1 year ago

David duChemin

"For me the only thing that matters is the photograph and I will never camp out on. I don't crop my images or I only use prime lenses or I only use like I honestly don't I don't give a damn what people use or how they do it. That's their own decision. You're listening to photography conversations. Were Tomas shares with you. His comprehensive interviews with passionate photographers and the most innovative photo industry leaders developers and influencers. This podcast will help you stay inspired and well-informed photographer low fellow photographers Thomas here. I hope you're having a wonderful light these days having fun with your photography and even more importantly producing some images you are proud and happy with today. I would like to share with you. My conversation with one of the photographers. I admire the most and have been following for years. Today's guest is David Duchemin and I am pretty sure you have heard about David before. He's a world and humanitarian assignment photographer. Best selling author of Photography Books Workshop Leader and also a digital publisher. She's the founder of craft envision probably the best digital photography bookstore out there Editor in Chief of Photograph Magazine and contributing columnist to photo life. Enjoy my conversation with David. Duchemin Hello David. I'm I'm thrilled and honored to have you here. I know very well that you're quite busy. Guy Photographer teacher workshop leader. So so just that you know I appreciate it a lot that he decided to take a bit of your valuable time to join me here on the show. Thanks to be your thank you David. Do you remember the the very last photograph you to that? You were very happy with I do actually. And it's it's very recent I've just got back from a sailing trip in northern Canada in an area that we call the great bear rainforest and I have been there before and to be honest. I've done a couple of trips recently and Had Bad luck with weather in bad luck with circumstance and I was just feeling like I needed. I needed a win. You know sometimes you just have to accept that no matter what you're GonNa do in light room or Photoshop. You just photographs aren't doing it. And so I I was on this trip and I was sitting on a rock in the middle of this river waiting for this bear. And we have this this species of bear in on the West Coast and in very particular part of the West Coast of Canada that we call the spirit bear. It's a black bear it's but it's completely white so it looks like a little bit like a little polar bear with very rare very beautiful and I was air in the great bear rainforest to photograph these bears and I had been there a couple years. Previously there was shot. I wanted where the bear was standing on a rock. And they're such beautiful bears and I wanted something. That was a little more interpretive. Not just a little shot of a bear on a rocket thousands of a second so I thought you know if I could slow down my shudder I could get you standing in a stream. So is basically in the middle of a waterfall against the water to do to sort of blur and And it'd be really Nice contrast between the bear and this river. The problem is this bear just kept moving. You know and and I was hoping I was hand holding The equivalent of six hundred millimeters at an eighth of a second and the challenge technology has has advanced so much. The challenge was not me holding my hand. Still I can hold this lens at an eighth of a second. Get a perfectly sharp photograph except the beer kept moving and I was trying and trying and trying and I finally got it. And that's a long way of telling you about these circumstances but the the photograph just it you know you look on the back of the monitoring you just have this feeling that I can't even describing the moment itself with with the bear was unbelievable but that I finally after a couple of years nailed this one photograph in and captured that feeling of being there. It was pretty intoxicating. You just mentioned that. It's kind of difficult to describe. What is what is just about the feeling into kind of intuitive almost like emotional kind of reaction right to your own image. Probably like how would you try to define? What makes a good photograph? What is a good photograph for you? Well for okay. So there's two questions there are what does make a good photograph. And what makes a good photograph for me? I think everyone will have their own answer. There are there are reasons that we all make our own photographs. Things that we want to accomplish but for me. What makes a good photograph is one that engages that connects with people? You know when they look at it. They're not thinking. Oh I wonder what lens he made this with. Or what camera. I wonder what his histogram looked like. Oh my gosh. It's such a sharp photograph. There's something more their their story. There's poetry there's Emotion and mood that kind of thing that human connection where photographs goes a little bit past? The brain connects on a deeper level Not Without the brain but just on that deeper level where you're thinking about it days later or it makes you think a different thing or feel something. I just wanted to connect and you know the kind of photograph. It is will determine how it connects. But it's that connection that is so important to me. I do think because each one of us is constructed a different way we have different emotional structures and different memory is different histories and so on and then we always believed that. I mean those of us who are deep into the photography in Ohio really enjoying living it on a daily basis. We believed at what we feel will connect or connects with us. We'll kind of translate into you. Know we will send this message. Further and hopefully other viewers also connect to the image to the same story. So where do you think? Is this common denominator. Is there something like this? Which is kind of like a common emotional message that we can into image. I would say I would say common but not universal I think that you identified it rightly that we all have different memories and well so for example. This photograph that I made a bear. Some people were will react. with confusion. If they don't know that a white blackberry exists. I think it's a polar bear in Weiser standing in the middle of you know a rain forest Some people maybe that have had experience with a bear that is a deeply negative And have fear about it will feel a different thing about the photograph and someone that has spent time there in that location with maybe even the same bears will have yet another emotional reaction to this so I do think that there can be commonality and then our work will find its own audience. Some just some people just won't resonate with your work at all. They won't understand it. They won't like that's fine but you can't resonate with absolutely everyone but it will find its own audience and for those people. Yes that's those people are the people who feel this common thing about that photograph but even then it's not it's not specifically common is. Just I think in generalities do think Adding description at least titles photographs Mexican cute. Do you add captions and titles to your own images when publishing them. I think context is everything Tomas I think sometimes context can be important for example if I want my work to be put forward or to have a conservation message. I may include that photograph with a story or with a short paragraph. That explains some of the detail or some of the urgency or the statistics that are behind for example. These spirit bears or you know endangered an endangered shark or something. If you're using the photograph in that context yes it would provide more information than the photograph Cam but if you were putting it on a wall or submitting it for consideration for a major awards competition Then the caption would would be less at necessary because the work is stands on its own as as what it is so I think context is everything. Sometimes it's really helpful and understanding and other times it's it's not necessary For how many have you been doing? Today I've been photographing seriously since I was about fourteen years old so just over just over thirty years now Cynthia so it's quite a long time to end the. Is there anything that you know changed for you in the entire process of chasing those compelling images like what would you say? You're doing different today. Generally speaking of course then you are doing ten or twenty years ago. Yeah it's it's a great. It's a great question. I think we all learn in different ways and there are phases of the way we learned twenty years ago. I was still very much concentrating on just trying everything on for size. You know I would try to photograph birds and try to photograph. You know whatever racecars or anything that I had a chance to photograph. I was trying figuring it out. Okay what works here. What what really. I was just learning my craft. I was learning to get that the shutter speeds in the apertures and the the understanding of how light worse. I was learning that stuff I I wasn't I had tools but I didn't know what kind of stories I wanted to tell with. Those tools in it was it was only about twelve years ago. Maybe Gosh maybe a little longer than that maybe fifteen years ago. Now that I went to Haiti and everything changed for me. I suddenly understood what stories I wanted to tell with my camera so for a long time. I didn't even know why I was making photographs. I was just oh that looks cool and I would press the button and you know if it was sharp. Great if it wasn't you know go back and try again now. I photograph with much greater intent. Because I see these tools these great opportunities for us to say something to express something even just to put the camera to your face in explorer. A thing before you know quite what? That intent is so much more intentional now than I ever was. I want to tell bigger stories. I want to not just for me now. It used to be a good photograph was sharpened. Well exposed now. A good photograph is about connection. And it's so much less about the camera than once once was it's it's all about really. It's all about the photographer. The cameras now are so good that we can give much more of our attention to the things that really make a great photograph story and emotion and the stuff that engages paying attention more to the light than to you know the quality of life than just a my best exposure you know and just a trip to Haiti so you discovered the social speak. You know your your subject. Matter or your. You know the the way you want to speak to photographs. Did it resonate with something? Actually which was already deep down in your you know based on your experiences from from your earlier life or yeah at very much. I mean I I've been a traveller all my life My mother was a nurse and an officer in the Royal Air Force in England. My father was an officer in the Canadian armed forces and they met while traveling while posted in in Cyprus and a my whole life I have spent traveling and my my mother gave me my both my mother and father but primarily. My mother gave me a very broad picture of the world and got me National Geographic magazines when I was a kid and I have always worked with children and families. And that's what I was doing at the time when I went down to Haiti. And so all of these things that were a part of me my desire for travel and that sort of thing. It all came back and suddenly. I knew what I wanted to do with my photographs and that has since branched out. Now I'm doing more wildlife than I ever imagined I would. I'm doing conservation stuff. I'm doing underwater photography with you know with sharks and whales and I never imagined that when I was in in Haiti so things do change as we grow but it always comes out of who we are. The best work will always be a natural extension of our thoughts. Our fears the things we love. The things were angry about and that kind of mix I think if we allow it to informs our photography and you know they do say a picture is worth a thousand words. I think. Sometimes it's not worth even close to a thousand words. Sometimes it's worth many more than a thousand words but the question really is. What are we saying with those thousand words? Are we using to the to the maximum Benefit are they. Are they powerful? Are they coming from something? True in deeper they just sort of you know something kind of flint which is okay too. There's lots of room for beauty. I'm not trying to dismiss you know the the snapshot but the photographs are capable of so much more as well and Before becoming a professional photographer and correct me. If I'm wrong but as far as I know you're working professional as a comedian. Right that's right. Yeah it so Fu- more I can imagine is present in your life. I can see it in your in your videos and you know in some of your poster. Books did this. How how long did you work as a comedian? Before twelve twelve years twelve years. How would you say does this? You know being a comedian kind of has its place in in you being photographer today as well. Is it somewhere there? It is but my pictures aren't funny. You know I mean I look at the work of of Elliot Irwin. Who's pictures do have an incredible amount of wit and humor about them and I. I Love Them. He's probably my favorite photographer. comedy has come to play in the sense. That comedy is extremely intentional. And the best. Comedians know that you have to edit your stuff down you have to really you have to keep working on it. It's not as Spur of the moment or spontaneous as a good comedian makes it look on stage. These jokes are. They are told a million times. They're edited. They're they're they listened. Comedians listen to their sets and they go through it and they count laughs per minute. I mean they're really really Very particular about their craft. That is what has carried over into photography for me as the understanding that this is a communication medium and Cutting out everything. That is unnecessary. Makes our photographs stronger. And so yeah. I think I'm still. I'm very much A. I think I'm still a fun person. But my my photography I do take very seriously and I it to be honest as much as I love the work of someone like Elliot or what. I have not found a place for humor in my photography very often. It's a maybe because my humor is much more of verbal I like to you know. Make Puns and and I'm funny I am funny with on some of my videos with facial expressions and that sort of thing but I. I don't know that I even really intrinsically know how to make my photographs. Funny I think I think. Far too serious for that and You mentioned being deliberate about Planning your own work are also very much deliberate when it comes to planning trips planning photographs. You're going to take how much space you have for. You know spontaneous reactions and you know joust absorb. What's unveiling their in front of you. That's a great question. It's actually very spontaneous. I because there's another discipline in comedy. And that's that's Improv and I don't I don't do a lot of research at all. In fact I in fact as years go by do less and less because the end. There's there is absolutely a role for research in some forms. If I were working for the National Geographic I would research the hell out of whatever I was doing but the kind of work that I'm doing now is I want it to be a record of my experience of a place I want to go. And I want to Stumble through a back alley somewhere and find something that I didn't even know was there never expected Some light some moment some lines that just you know the lonely planet had no idea that I was going to charities so I am very I show up in a place. I choose a good location in the sense that I know that I wanNA walk a lot So I pick a good hotel. That's close to the action and that's kind of it. I Wa- I just walk around. I just picked direction and I walk in explorer and a walk all day. And that's where my best photography happens is is in that spontaneity and the unexpected discoveries. I don't I don't plan well in part because the minute you start really planning the minute. I start really planning things. You get a bunch of expectations. You begin to think. Oh my photographs are gonNA look like this or like this or maybe. It'll look like this and those expectations. Those you're trying to find something that may not even exist and those expectations. I think blind us to what actually does exist. What actually is there. Sometimes we're looking for something so hard that it stops us from seeing and experiencing so I've I find for for me for my own personality too much planning gets in the way so I do as little as possible. I want to ask you about composition. Because I know it's something you have been thinking about a lot recently in one recent blog post. You wrote that moment. Is Everything only once you have used composition to make it so so do you think good composition something. We have to practice awful a lot in order to be able to. Apply almost intuitively at very very quickly when spotting an interesting moment in front of our camera. Because it's so often that we just a second right or even even less photograph any given scene so finding and you know grasping this great composition have to become an instinct. I I think I think it becomes intuitive but that intuition is not for most for ninety nine percent of it. It's not like you're born with it. You Know I. I truly believe there are some very few people that are talented naturally naturally gifted this. But I think there's so few of them that I'm probably not overstating when I say talent is just completely overrated. I think we learned just like we learn language. We learn the visual language. And the more we understand How visual language works the more? Were aware of what makes a good composition. And what does and I'm not talking about rules just talking about understanding maybe the role of contrast or repeated elements or just how lines work relative to our perspective and our choice of pov all of this stuff combines and you can have the most amazing moment in the world. I mean iconic human universal. I mean it could be almost a religious experience in the photograph. It will not it. Your composition is what makes it gives that moment. It's truest expression it's best most powerful expression expression. Yes it will still be a photograph of whatever that moment is in history but will it be the strongest? Will it say the thing you want to? And so you're you're absolutely right. It does take time and and often the moment is so fleeting that it's only going to be the person that's done this long enough that they can anticipate that moment and set up for it or are willing to wait for it to happen again But the person that has yes. It will feel like intuition after thirty years. It will feel like you're not thinking like Oh my God where to put my lines. But it's because you've done it over and over and over again just like. I'm speaking to you in English I'm not thinking all quick hurry up. What's the next you're GONNA use? You know it's just kind of it's coming out and you could say it's instinctive or two a little bit more. I have to have to be sure but but the more we do it you have to. You have to acknowledge when I pick up a like. I can now speak French. It's not pretty at all but I can speak French in such a way that I'm not usually thinking ahead. It's just coming out of my mouth and then I get into trouble when suddenly realize they have no idea what about like? What's the word but even there that's progress that's getting to point where you can much more intuitive so it's not like it's either intuitive earth. Not that we start with not being most of us and we learn over time and it becomes more and more intuitive Even someone who's been doing it thirty forty fifty years. We're we're all still learning and it is becoming new. Things are becoming more intuitive for us. So I I would say to. Those that are that are listening to Sounds like work? It's it is. It is work art. Any art any craft takes takes a long time to master but it's not binary it's not you either do master it or you don't master it. It is a journey along which we are in process of mastering but composition is to to pay all this attention to lend specs and cameras specs and all of this stuff and spend no time actually studying photographs. That's what we're talking about when we're talking about composition. What's what makes those photographs. Great and I would venture to say most photographers. They know the B. N. H. Catalog inside now and they don't really even have a comfort level with speaking about what makes a good photograph. I was about to ask. You actually are. Because you're teaching a lot to write these days educator so exactly what to ask what would be for somebody union just starting like willing exactly to to to improve his compositional skills and so on what will be the best way of learning because one thing is to attend courses or workshops. Route from guys like you photographers. Others are the way we're probably looking at photographs of you know renowned masters so to speak which is always very subjective as well it right. Yeah they're all all. Of course everyone learns differently and I think at the beginning you know. Read some great books. Take some courses take them from people that are making the kind of work that you love But also just study photographs. Studied the kind of photographs that you love. But not exclusively those branch out Pick up the work of someone that you know is considered a master and you might not even like their work but pick it up and ask yourself. Why is this photographer or was this photographer? So Appreciated and revered. What is it in the photographs and then the stuff that you love ask it's there. That's the beautiful thing about photography. There's no secret says this is not all unlocked by a handshake a secret handshake or some secret code. The master photographers. Don't have some secret knowledge that everyone else doesn't have. They've just been doing this a long time. They figured out the language and they've learned their way with that language so look at the photographs and just ask yourself. How am I feeling about this forever? What does it make me think? What is it makes me feel An and why is it the lines the subject is it is a a type of contrast. Is that the light is it. What decisions did the photographer make? That he might made have made otherwise and totally ruined. This photograph maybe Say Moment Same Lens. Everything's the same. But his position was much different and he. The subject blended into the background or was obscured by tree or a bus. Every decision matters. And if you can spend if you picked up one photograph a day or even one a week and just put it on your desk and you looked at it and you ask yourself. Why does this photograph work? What would have happened at? The photographer had waited another moment or moved a little bit to the left. That kind of thinking is what allows us eventually. Not Because I care that people can speak about photographs but eventually when you put the camera in your face you will be thinking these questions and you will explore with the camera to your face. You will explore different kinds of responses to those questions. And that's what will end up being your photograph. And then you'll look at your own photographs and say did at work. I knew what I wanted to accomplish. Did it work could have moved a little bit? Could I have changed my optics and in Incan because you'll always be doing this in conjunction with this. You know trying new lenses once in a while or a new technique re picking up a flash and learning about light All of these things matter but to do the one to focus so hard on our craft and and not be doing the other is like getting really really good at understanding how a guitar works but not actually understanding music not understanding how to play a song and connect emotionally with with an audience. And I think we need to do both so looking at the images and then also going out and practicing it yourself at least in the beginning trying to you know maybe not copied because I'm always against it but kind of when you eleven to try to reproduce certain compositional ideas would be the best of both worlds and and being willing to fail. And you know I don't actually have a problem with copying when you you acknowledge that you are copying and it's just for an exercise just a creative exercise. I if you were painting if you were doing a A discipleship in painting you would be sitting in a museum or a gallery sketching some of the great pieces of of of art from the last of Western art. You'd be sketching this stuff and There's great value in that but no artist would sketch out Picasso's Guernica and then take credit for it as his own would just go into a notebook and one day ten twenty years later. Some of that will bleed into his painting in some some fashion so I think we have to keep them separate But I also think we just need to fail. We need to go out. We we don't need all of these photography Gurus even. I have students that I kind of just I WANNA and I have said you just need to not take workshops right now. You need to go and try this fine. You don't need a teacher. You need to go and let failure be. Your teacher. Go failed try. Figure it out then in a year from now when you've blown off another hundred thousand frames and you've played through some personal projects and you've learned some stuff then come back and learn a few more things but we seem to be in this always trying to learn but never willing to fail Mode and failures are best teacher. You learn so quickly when you know when you just go out and fail and figure it out rather than just kind of going. I'll just read another book. Many of us have read way too many books and not in complimented that with going out and just putting the camera in her hand and failing time and time again with There's a great freedom and failing so many of my best photographs have come from. Oh I this might not work. Well let's see what happens and you get a whole my God. That was a I love that and then you spend some time kind of probably camping out on that technique and you overuse it a bit but eventually just becomes yet another tool in your toolbox. But you don't get there unless you're willing to fail and just be crappy at it for a while. I think this kind of more even more difficult into today's Day and age with the social media kind of you know Reality around us where people kind of afraid of this failure in public when putting the images online people don't put them people are afraid of getting the critique of getting better comments so but actually this would be also the way of kind of testing the waters testing or your your own skills I might be. I think social media is a mixed bag. I'm about to fly Venice for for some workshops in I tell my students while we're there. I don't forbid anyone to do anything. They're grown adults but I tell them if you're if you're serious about this No social media for the week. No looking at social media no posting to social media. Because I want to focus on their art. I want them focused on learning and seeing this beautiful place that we're in Not had down with an iphone in their hands and widen often happens. Is We make a photograph. We're very excited. We run it through. Snap seed we posted up to the Internet and we get that dopamine hit of all of those likes and comments and hearts and Many of them really totally meaningless and and what it does is. It gives us a false assessment. It does a couple of things. It gives us a false assessment of our work. And we think Oh people like it must be good not necessarily true neither. Is it true that if people don't like it that it's not good work so we have to be careful about how much credit we give to the outside world but the other thing is art takes time art is is it requires us to think and to Stu and things and to go back and retry things and if we throw out that might eventually be only sketch image but we put it on instagram and everyone was got? It's amazing and you think oh great. It's my works done here. We never get to the point where we do another sketch image and another and an we try it out and we combine ideas and we get to that. Final image will go yes. That is the one they're probably untold millions of these photographs. That never get made because we we sabotage our own process we you know. I think when you make photographs you should. You should take some time. I'm not being prescriptive. I'm just saying that the benefit taking time is so extraordinary the benefit to Editing your work quietly on your own and sequencing things was small and then printing bigger work. So that when you're done a project you have a an portfolio actual images that you've signed your name to that you've lived with for a while that you've seen the little flaws in them and you've gone back and you've tweet and we just get so lazy and and I think again. I don't want to be prescriptive but there are. Photographs are worth so much more than the approach that we often give them. Okay but but photograph. Photography is yeah. He ended his visual art. Which means it needs a viewer right so like when would you want to? You know is the moment you know after working on your on a series of photographs on certain portfolio. When do you know is the moment to actually show show those images to the world? When when is I think at some point we just you just get to a point? It has to be done where you know you've printed the image or or you've lived with it for a while and go. Yeah I'm I am really satisfied with this and I don't know we always I mean it's not an at that point it doesn't end. There have been times when I've done a photograph in color that two years later. I've come back to without you. Know I'd like to try to see what this looks like in black and white and black and white gives a different expression to that photograph So it's always changing in his. I'm not saying it's like wait a week and then you're done. I'm just saying let's just I'll slow down a little bit. Let's instead of posting three hundred photographs to instagram every week. Let's post one a day and let's be slow about our consumption of them because we're devaluing our stuff. The more we put out so sometimes I mean I've I have put up images fairly quickly but others. I sit on for a long time and I go. Okay you know is. Is this really worth it in part because I also want when I eventually do for example a book or a gallery show or something I I want there to be something left. That people haven't seen that hasn't just been tossed onto social media but again it's it's more for me. It's more about the process. I find the slower I am to share in the longer. I live with these photographs. The more I realize for example that may be overcooked in image in post processing. Or maybe there's a diff maybe there's a different frame that's actually a stronger expression of this thing and I've taken more time with the edit Again it's not that I mean you see everywhere on social media. I love social media. I just am aware that there are things that does well. And there are some areas in which it provides us an opportunity to sabotage our own process. And we just all give ourselves a little more freedom just to post so much to slow down and also in doing so maybe to appreciate the work of others a little more slowly rather than just look at S- swiping clicking at moving on but actually study it and not consume quite as quickly. If we all slow down I think would just be better photographers and And we value our what we do a little bit more than we do now. You mentioned post processing. Just reminded me of one last question about the composition. I want to ask before. What are your thoughts on on quote unquote adjusting the composition during post processing by cropping? The image is. It is less valuable less noble way of doing photography for you for me. I prefer to keep that to a minimum. But a let me go on record yet again saying I really do not believe in fact. I do believe there are no rules. There is no badge of honor for There you may give yourself your badge of honor for not cropping an image but if the images made stronger by a slight crop or a readjustment or you realize you know the balance isn't quite right on this. It might be better as a four by five instead of sixteen by nine or vice versa. I for me. The only thing that matters is the photograph and I will never camp out on. I don't crop my images or I only use prime lenses or I only use like I honestly don't I don't give a damn what people use or how they do it. That's their own decision. I like I have a satisfaction for getting at it as close as possible in camera but You know I cut my teeth in photography in a dark room and we were always cropping dodging and burning and doing all of these traditional techniques. And I didn't do a lot of it. I wasn't advanced at all but there was enough in there that you knew how to take what was potentially a very good photograph but would be better if you refined it a little if you slightly adjusted the crop so I think people need to do what serves the photograph. Not What serves their ego and certainly not. What serves you know the pundits who say all you gotTa do this or you got to do that. You know let them make their own art if they don't WanNa crop they don't have the crop very I mean. I couldn't agree more when I opened a book. You know photographer book and there is a photograph to just you know stops my breasts. I really this is the last thing I'm even thinking about. What was what have been done? There was there some crop some dodgy. I don't care I just enjoy the moment right. I just like the comedian will tighten up his set and and make sure that the punch lines are tight and the setups are tight. So that they get the most amount of laughs It's the same thing with writing. I mean how much do any of us want to go to a movie? That never actually got edited. That was just sixteen hours of raw footage or read a book that just the the author banged it out on his typewriter and Zing OCTA goes to the publishing like cod. There's typos and you know. There's all of the an editor editing your stuff. The process of refining is for most of us is really important and I think for those of you. The era there near your purist. And you're like no. God Damn it you know i. It's it's my prime lens on my like No cropping and that's how they've always done that. It's not if you look through. You know one of my favorite teaching books his magnum contact sheets. You look through there and see which images were selected out of a roll of thirty six and where where crops were made. Editing has always been really important and nobody wants to see all your crap and your mistakes. They want to see the most the most powerful photograph you can make without it. You Know I. I'd rather see a great photograph than your badge of honor. This crop my images of smoothly David type time is going really fast. The last couple of things. I mean like a couple of questions you mentioned before that and I also agree Q. Completely that the camera actually you know. The brand of the type of camera doesn't matter at all in the horio process. But so let me ask you because I am a fugitive from US self and I. If I'm not mistaken I saw silicon Fujifilm camera in your hands on your recent video. So so is it Fuji Fuji these days. I'm a Fuji X photographer which is almost completely meaningless. Except that I do really like fuji x t to and they make great lenses I also shoot Nikon underwater because murless. Isn't there yet and I've invested a lot my underwater gear and I have cannon system for shooting. What little video I I do for my for my video on my youtube show But yes right now I love. There's certain things about the Fuji that are just the sweet spot for me. That for example. The Sony doesn't have this only doesn't feel right in my hands. I like the old style aperture rings and Shutter dials. It's very I can pick up a fuji x t to in it feels despite a lot of other differences like my old pentax spot matter k. One thousand or that era of perfectly only manual analog camera that muscle memory is still there so I can work. I can use a Fuji Faster than I can use any other camera right now And that's important. I think the sooner the camera gets out of our way. The sooner we will be making the photographs that we want to be be making so for me. That's Fuji it has nothing to do with brand loyalty I just really liked the way it feels in my hands but over the last ten years I've done Canon Nikon like a Fuji and little all kinds of quirky little things in between photographers. Have this strange relationship with their gear and I love my hair. I mean my mantra for the last. What fifteen years has been gear as good vision is better? And I think people camp out on that and they're like Oh Vision's better and it is it absolutely but gear is good you know without we will all be at our easels painting. The cameras are what? Make it photography and you have to know your craft. And if your camera doesn't feel right in your hand I'm not saying obsess about it. It it. It's a collaborator. And it's got to do what it needs to do I love my i. Love my Fujii's but again it's more because they fit in my hand they have the extra two. Has that flipped down screen that I can't live without because I like to get really low and explore different. Pov's and you know. I can. I can go now. I can go like I did to this trip with up to not not including Tele extenders up to six hundred millimeters of reach To camera bodies and I can put it in a backpack. That's it's so light I can. I can hike with it. I have some mobility issues now after an accident that I need. I can't carry that big. Das larger anymore and the DSM. When I do use a DSL or now off Tomas it drives me crazy crazy. I'm looking through it. I'm like where's My histogram. I can't I you. What do you mean? I have to meet her first. Then photographed then check my histogram with the with the current batch of murless cameras I can look constantly through my viewfinder and see my histogram. I never have to take the camera down. An effort. Never have to lose a moment and that alone has made me and much more present photographer. Whatever gear you have to use to get gear out of the way be present that's gear. You should be using David. Thanks so much. One last thing maybe share with my listeners. Here so what? What are the best online? You know places to find out more about what you're doing what you're apt to enter people. Learn more about your. I think the best place to go would be my my blog. David Duchemin DOT COM And from there you'll find links to my youtube show. Vision is better You'll find links to my portfolio and see what my you know my latest work and Links to books like my latest book is soul of the camera. You can get all my books on Amazon but if you go to my blog David dot com. You can find everything. In addition to that I have a education site called craft and vision craft vision dot com. That's full of E books both by myself and some of the best photography educators out there. And so you know you could avail yourself. It's not just e-books. There's also some solid light room presets on there some video tutorials and that sort of thing so Those two places that you could probably best friend me and of course on on instagram and facebook. But you can find those links on my blog. We're linked to everything. Thanks so much wants more day. We'd have a have a wonderful light wherever you go and talk to you next time. Thank you so much too much uh-huh.

David Fuji Haiti Tomas David Duchemin instagram Photograph Magazine Canada youtube West Coast Nikon Thomas publisher Elliot Irwin founder Ohio officer
Interview with David duChemin

Photography Radio

43:04 min | 1 year ago

Interview with David duChemin

"For me the only thing that matters is the photograph and I will never camp out on. I don't crop my images or I only use prime lenses or I only use like I. I honestly don't I don't give a damn what people use or how they do it. That's their own decision. Um Hello Fellow photographers Thomas here. I hope you're having a wonderful light these days having fun with your photograph and even more importantly producing some images. You are proud and happy today. I would like to share with you. My conversation with one of the photographers. I admire the most and have been following four years. Today's guest is David Duchemin and I am pretty sure you have heard about David before. He's a world and humanitarian assignment photographer for best selling author of Photography Books Workshop Leader and also a digital publisher. She's the founder of craft and vision probably the best best digital photography bookstore out of their Editor in Chief of Photograph Magazine and contributing columnist to photo life. Enjoy my conversation with David Duchemin. Can you imagine your life without photography. No the new will love this show and it doesn't matter if you're a DSL are a mirror for a mobile phone shooter. We're here to help your your photography grow. This is photography radio. Hello Hello David I. I'm thrilled and honored to have you here on photography radio. I I know very well that you're quite busy guy. You photographer vert a teacher workshop leader so just that you know I appreciate it a lot that that you decided to take a bit of your valuable time to join me here on the show. Oh Oh you've science to be here thank you David. Do you remember the very last photograph Youtube that you were very happy with I do actually. And it's it's very recent I've just got back from a a sailing trip in northern Canada in an area that we call the great bear rainforest and I have been there before and to be honest. I've done a couple of trips. Recently and Had Bad luck with weather in bad bad luck with circumstance and I was just feeling like I needed. I needed a win. You know sometimes you just have to accept that no matter what you're going to do in light room or photoshop. You're you're just the photographs aren't doing it. And so I I was on this trip and I was sitting on a rock in the middle of this river. Waiting for this bear are and we have this this species of bear in on the West Coast and very particular part of the West Coast of Canada that we call the spirit bear. It's a black bear. It's it's but it's completely white so it looks like a little bit like a little polar bear but they're very rare. They're very beautiful. And I was there in the great bear rainforest to photograph Graf these bears and I had been there a couple of years previously and there was a shot I wanted where the bearer was standing on a rock walk. And there's such beautiful bears. I wanted something. That was a little more interpretive. Not just a literal shot of a bear on a rocket thousands of a second so I thought you know if I could slow. Oh down my shudder I get this you know. He's standing in a stream so is basically in the middle of a waterfall against the water to to sort of blur and And there would be really nice contrast between the bear river. The problem is spared just kept moving and I was. I was hand holding the equivalent of six hundred millimeters at an eighth of a second and the challenge Technology is advanced so much the challenge was not me holding thing. My hands still. I can hold this lens at an eighth of a second. Get perfectly sharp photograph except the bear kept moving and I was trying and trying and trying and I finally finally got it and That's a long way of telling you about these circumstances but the the photograph just you know you look on the back of the monitoring you just have this feeling that I can't even describe in the moment itself with with. The bear was unbelievable but that I finally after a couple of years nailed this one photograph and captured that feeling of being there it was pretty intoxicating just mentioned that. It's kind of difficult to describe. What is what is just about the feeling and to kind of intuitive almost like an emotional reaction to your own image probably like how would you try to define defined? What makes a good photograph? What is a good photograph for you? Well for okay so there's two questions there are what is a good photograph. And what makes a good photograph for for me. I think everyone will have their own answer. There are reasons that we all make our own photographs. Things that we want to accomplish but for me. What makes a good? The photograph is one that engages that connects with people. You know when they look at it. They're not thinking boy wonder what Lens he made this with or what camera I wonder what his histogram Graham look like our own my gosh. It's such a sharp photograph. There's something more their story. There's poetry there's Emotion and mood that kind of thing that human connection where photographs sort of goes a little bit past the brain connect on a deeper level Not Without the brain but just on that deeper level where or you're thinking about it days later or it makes you think a different thing or feel something. I just wanted to connect and you know the kind of photograph. It is will determine determine how it connects but it's that connection that is important to me and do you think because each one of us is constructed you know in a different way. I mean we have different emotional structures and different memories different histories and so on and then we always believed that. I mean those of us who are deep into the photography and a whole really enjoying living on a daily basis. We kind of believe that what we feel will connect or connects x with us. We'll kind of translate into we will send this message. Further and hopefully other viewers will also connect to the image to the same distorted. So where do you think is this common denominator. Is there something like this which is kind of like a common emotional message that we can inject into an niche. Yeah I would say I would say common but not universal I think that you identified it rightly that we all have different memories and well so for example. This photograph that I made of a bear. Some people were will react with confusion. If they don't know that a white black bear exists. I think it's a polar bear in Weiser standing in the middle of a rainforest Some people may be that have had an experience with a bear that is a deeply negative and have fear about it. We'll feel a different thing about the photograph and someone that has spent time there in that location with maybe even the same bears will have yet another emotional channel reaction to this so I I do think that there can be commonality and then our work will find its own audience. Some just some people just won't resonate with your work at all. Aw they won't understand it. They won't like that's fine but you you're so you work can't resonate with absolutely everyone but it will find its own audience and for those people. Yes yes that's those people are the people who feel this common thing about that photograph but even then it's not it's not specifically common is. Just I think in generalities holidays do think adding captions descriptions or at least titles. Photographs makes a huge. Do you add captions and or title to a your own images when publishing them I think context is everything till March. I think sometimes context can be important for example if I want my work to be put forward or to have a conservation message. I may include that photograph with a story or with short paragraph. That explains some some of the detail or some of the urgency or the statistics that are behind for example these spirit bears or endangered an endangered shark or something. If you were using the photograph in that context yes it would provide more information than the photograph itself. Kim But if you were putting it on a wall or submitting it for consideration iteration for a major awards competition then the caption would would be less at necessary because the work is stands on its own as as what it is so I think context is everything. Sometimes it's really helpful and understanding and other times it's It's not necessary. For how many have you been doing photography and Today why I've been photographing seriously since I was about fourteen years old so just over just over thirty years now Cynthia here so it's quite a long time. Is there anything that's changed for the entire process of chasing those compelling images like what would you say you're doing different today generally speaking though of course then you are doing ten or twenty years ago. It's it's a great. It's a great question. I think we all learn in different ways than there are phases of the way we learn so twenty years ago. I was still very much concentrating reading hunt just trying everything on for size you know I would try to photograph birds you know. Try to photograph. You know whatever racecars or anything that I it could have a chance to photograph. I was trying figuring it out. Okay what works here. What what really? I was just learning my craft. I was learning to get get the the shutter speeds in the apertures and the the understanding of how light worse. I was just learning that stuff I wasn't I had tools but I didn't know what kind of stories I wanted to tell with those tools and it was it was only about twelve years ago. Maybe Gosh maybe a little longer than that maybe fifteen years ago. Now that I went into Haiti and everything changed for me I. Suddenly I understood what stories I wanted to tell with my camera so it for for a long time. I didn't even know why I was making photographs. I was just oh that looks cool and I would press the button and you know if it was sharp. Great if it wasn't you know go back and try again now. I photograph with much greater intent. Because I see these tools as these great opportunities for us to say something to express something even even just to put the camera to your face explorer. A thing before you know quite what that intent is so much more intentional now than I ever was. I want tale bigger stories. I want to not just for me now. It used to be a good photograph was sharpened. Well exposed now. A good photograph is about connection. And it's so much less about the camera than at once once was It's it's all about really. It's all about the photographer. The cameras now are so good good that we can give much more of our attention to the things that really make a great photograph story and a motion and the stuff that engages as you know paying attention more to the light than to the quality of light than just. What's my best exposure you know and the trip to hide so you discovered so to speak? You know your your subject matter or your the way you WanNa speak to photographs did it. It really resonate with something. Actually which was already deep down in your you know based on your experiences from from your earlier life. Yeah very much I mean I. I've they've been a traveler. All my life My mother was a nurse in an officer in the Royal Air Force in England. My father was a officer in the Canadian an armed forces and they met while traveling while posted in in Cyprus and my whole life I have spent traveling and my my mother gave me my both my mother and father but primarily. My mother gave me a very broad picture of the world and got me National Geographic magazines. When I was a kid and I have always? He's worked with children and families and that's what I was doing at the time when I went down to Haiti. And so all of these things that were a part of me my desire for travel travel and that sort of thing it all came back and suddenly. I knew what I wanted to do with my photographs and that has since branched out. You know. I'm now I'm doing more wildlife than I ever imagined I would. I'm doing conservation stuff. I'm doing underwater photography with You know with sharks Wales and I never imagined that when I was in in Haiti so things do change as we grow and but it always comes out of who we are. The best work will always be a natural extension attention of our thoughts. Our fears things. We love the things were angry about. And that kind of mix I think if we allow it to informs our are photography and you know they do say pictures worth a thousand words. I think. Sometimes it's not worth even close to a thousand words. Sometimes it's worth many more than a thousand words but the question really is. What are we saying those thousand words and are we using to the to the maximum Benefit are they. Are they powerful. Who are they coming from? Something true deeper. They just sort of you know something. Kind of flippant which is okay too. There's lots of room for beauty. I'm not trying to dismiss the snapshot but out photographs are capable of so much more as well and before becoming a professional photographer and correct me. If I'm wrong but as far as I know you're working Professionally as a comedian right correct. Yeah so few more you know I can imagine is present in your life. I can see it in your in your videos yours and you know in some of your books did this. How how long did you work as a comedian? Before twelve twelve years twelve years how would you say does this. You know being a comedian kind of has its place in big for today as well. Is it some other It is but my pictures aren't funny. No I mean I look at the work of of Elliot Irwin. Who's pictures? Do you have an incredible amount of wit and humor about them and I love them. He's probably my favorite photographer. Comedy has come to play in the sense. That comedy is extremely intentional. And the best. Comedians know that you have to edit your stuff down you have to really you have to keep working on it it's not as Spur of the moment or spontaneous as a good comedian makes it look on stage. These jokes are they are told a million times. They're edited. There they listened. COMEDIANS is listen to their sets and they go through it and they count laughs per minute. I mean they're really really very particular about their their craft. That is what has carried over into photography for me as the understanding that this is a communication medium and Cutting out everything that is is unnecessary makes our photographs stronger and so yeah. I think I'm still. I'm very much A. I think I'm still a fun person. But my Mike Photography I do take very seriously and I to be honest as much as I love the work of someone like Elliot or what. I have not found a place for humor humor in my photography very often. It's maybe because my humor is much more of verbal I like to you know. Make Puns and and. I'm funny that way Dan. I'm funny with some of my videos with facial expressions and that sort of thing but I I I don't know that I even really intrinsically know how to make my photographs. Funny Funny I think I'm I think I'm far too serious for that. And you mentioned being deliberate about Planning your own work are also very much deliberate. When it comes to the planning you treats planning to photograph? You're going to take how much space you have for. You know spontaneous reactions and you know just absorb. What's what's unveiling in front of you? Yeah that's a great question. It's actually very spontaneous I because there's another discipline in comedy and that's that's Improv and and I don't I don't do a lot of research at all in fact I in fact as years go by I do less and less because the end. There's there is absolutely a role for research in some forms. If I were working for the National Geographic I would research the hell out of whatever I was doing but the kind of work that I'm doing now is I want it to be a record of my experience experience of a place I want to go. And I want to Stumble through a back alley somewhere and find something that I didn't even know was there never expected Some light some moments moment some lines that just you know the lonely planet had no idea that I was going to counties so I am very I show up in place. I choose a good location in the sense since that. I know that I WANNA walk a lot So I pick a good hotel. That's closer to the action and that's kind of it. I would. I just walk around. I just pick a direction and I walk and I explore a walk all day. And that's where my best photography happens is is in that spontaneity and the unexpected expected discoveries. I don't I don't plan well in part because the minute you start really planning the minute I start really planning things You get a bunch of expectations you begin to think. Oh my photographs are gonNA look like this or like this or maybe it will look like this and those expectations those. You're trying to find something that may not even exist assist and those expectations. I think blind us to what actually does exist. What actually is there? Sometimes we're looking for something so hard that it stops us from seeing seeing and experiencing so I find that for for me for my own personality too much planning gets in the way so I do as little as possible. I want to ask you about composition. Because I know it's something you have been thinking about a lot recently in one of your recent blog post you wrote that moment. Is Everything on once. You have used composition to make it so so do you think good composition is something. We have to practice awful lot in order to be able a to apply it. Almost you know intuitively and very very quickly when spotting an interesting moment in front of our camera because it's so often that we have just a second right or even even less to photograph any given so finding and you know grasping this great composition doesn't have to become an instinct. I think you'd Uh I think it becomes intuitive but that intuition is not for most for ninety nine percent of it. It's not like you're born with it you know. I truly believe there are some very few people that are talented naturally naturally gifted at this stuff. But I think there's so few of them that I'm probably not overstating when I say talent is just completely overrated. I think we learn just like we learn language. We learned the visual language. And the more we understand How visual visual language works the more were aware of what makes a good composition? And what doesn't I'm not talking about rules just talking about understanding maybe the role of contrast or repeated elements or just how lines work relative to our perspective our choice of pov all of this stuff combines and you can have the most amazing zing moment in the world. I mean conic human universal every I mean it could be almost a religious experience but in the photograph it will will not in your composition is what makes what gives that moment. It's truest expression it's best most powerful expression expression yes it will will still be a photograph of whatever that moment is in history but will be strongest. Will it say the thing you want to. And so you're you're absolutely right. It does take take time and we often. The moment is so fleeting that it's only going to be the person that's done this long enough that they can anticipate that moment and set out for it or are willing to wait for it to happen again. but the person that has yes it will feel like intuition after thirty years. It will feel like you're not thinking like Oh my God where to put my lines but it's because you've done it over and over and over again just like I'm speaking to you in English. I'm not thinking. Oh quick cre- up. What's the next words you're we're GONNA use you know it's just kind of it's coming out and you could say it's instinctive talk a little bit more? I have to have to ensure sure but but the more we do it you have to. You have to acknowledge you know. I mean when when I pick up a I can now speak French. It's not pretty at at all but I can speak French in such a way that I'm not usually thinking I had. It's just coming out of my mouth and then I get into trouble when suddenly realize they have no idea what I'm about like what's the word But even there that's progress that's getting to point where you can much more intuitive so it's not like it's either intuitive or not. It's that we start with it not being most of us and we learn over time and it becomes more and more intuitive. Even someone who's been doing it thirty forty fifty years. We're we're all still learning and it is becoming new. Things are becoming more intuitive for us so I would say those that are listening to cash. You know to sounds like like work. It's it is it is work art any art any craft takes a long time to master. But it's not binary it's not you either do master or you don't master it it. It is a journey along which we are in process of mastering but composition is to to pay all this attention to lend specs and end cameras specs in all of this stuff and spend no time actually studying photographs. That's what we're talking about when we're talking about composition. What's what makes those photographs? Great Eight and I would venture to say most photographers. They know the B. N. H. Catalog inside now and they don't really even have a comfort level with speaking about l.. Folks what makes a good photograph. Yes I was about to ask you actually because you are teaching photography a lot to write these days educators so exactly what to ask you what would be the for somebody who's just starting like willing exactly to improve his own compositional skills and so on what will be the best way of actually learning because it one thing is to attend courses or workshops route from guys like you other photographers others would probably looking at photographs of. You've you know renowned musters which is always very subjective as well it right. Yeah they're all. Of course everyone learns differently. And I and I think at the beginning you know. Read some great books take some courses. Take them from people that are making the kind of work that you love But also just study. The photographs studied the kind of photographs that you love but not exclusively those you know branch out Pick up the work of someone they know is is considered a master and you might not even like their work but pick it up and ask yourself. Why is this photographer or was this photographer so Appreciated and revered. What is it in the photographs and the stuff that you love ask? It's there that's the beautiful thing about photography. There's no secret says this is not all unlocked by a handshake AAC. A you know a secret handshake. Or some secret code The master photographer is don't have some secret knowledge that everyone else doesn't have they've just been doing thing this along time. They figured out the language and they've learned their way with that language so look at the photographs and just ask yourself. How am I feeling about this? What does it make me? You think what does it make me feel And why is it. The lines is the subject is it is a a type of contrast. Is that the light. Is You know what decisions did the photographer make that. He might have made otherwise and totally ruined this photograph maybe Say moment same lends. Everything's the same. But his position was much different and he the subject blended into the background or was obscured by a tree or a bus. Every decision matters. And if you can spend if you picked up one one photograph a day or even a week and just put it on your desk and you look at it and you ask yourself. Why does this photograph work? What would have happened at the photographer? I waited another moment or moved a little bit to the left. That kind of thinking is what allows us eventually. Not Because I care that people can speak about photographs but eventually when you put the camera your face you will be thinking these questions and you will explore with the camera to your face. You will explore different kinds of responses sponsored to those questions and that's what will end up being your photograph and then you'll look at your own photographs and say did at work. I knew what I wanted to accomplish. Did it work. Could I have moved a little bit. Could I have changed my optics and in Incan. Because you'll always be doing this in conjunction with this trying new lenses once in a while or a new technique or picking up a flash and learning about light All of these things matter but to do the one to focus so hard on our craft and and not be doing the other is like getting really really good at you know understanding how a guitar works but not actually understanding music in not understanding understanding how to play a song and connect emotionally with with an audience. And I think we do. We need to do both so looking at the images and then and also going out and practicing it yourself at least in the beginning trying to you know maybe not copied because I'm always against when you're listening to trying to rip reproduce certain written compositional ideas would be the best of both worlds probably think so and and being willing to fail and you know. I don't actually have a problem with copying when you. You acknowledge that you are copying and it's just for an exercise just a creative exercise. I I if you were painting fewer doing a You you know a discipleship in painting you would be sitting in a museum or a gallery sketching some of the great pieces of of of art from the last. You know of Western art. You'd be sketching this stuff and There's great value in that but no artist's sketch out Picasso's Guernica and then take credit for it as his own own. It would just go into a notebook and one day ten twenty years later. Some of that will bleed into his painting in some some fashion so I think we have to keep them mm separate But I also think we just need to fail. We need to go out. We don't need all of these photography Gurus even. I have students that I kind of just WanNa and I have. I've said you just need to not take workshops right now. You need to go and try this fine. You don't need a teacher you need to go and let failure be. Your teacher. Go failed failed. Try figure it out then in a year from now when you've blown off another one hundred thousand frames and you've played through some personal projects and you've learned earn some stuff then come back and learn a few more things but we seem to be in this always trying to learn but never willing to fail Mode and failures is our best teacher. You learn so quickly when you know when you just go out and fail and figure it out rather than just kind of going on while I just read another book. We many of us have read way. Too many books works and not complimented that with going out and just putting the camera or hand and failing time and time again with it There's a great freedom and failing so many of my best photographs have come from. Oh I this might not work. Well let's see what happens and the you get it and go home. I God that that was I love that and when you spend some time kind of probably camping out on that technique and you overuse it a bit but eventually it just becomes yet another tool in your toolbox. But you don't get there unless you're willing to fail and just be crappy at it for a while. I think this is kind of even more difficult into you. Know Today's Day and age with social media kind of reality around us where people kind of afraid of this failure in public when putting the images online people don't put people are afraid of getting the critique of getting bad comments so but actually this would be also the way of kind of testing the waters testing. Or your your own skills Houston say might be I I think so. So media is a mixed bag. I I'm about to fly to Venice for For some workshops and I tell my students while we're there oh I don't forbid anyone to do anything grown adults but I tell them if you're if you're serious about this No social media for the week no looking at social media no posting to social media because I want the focused on their art I want them focused on learning and seeing this beautiful place that we're in Not head down down with an iphone in their hands and what often happens. Is We make a photograph. We're very excited. We we run it through. Snap seed we posted up to the Internet and we get that dopamine hit of all of those likes and comments and hearts and Many of them really totally meaningless and and what it does is it gives us a false assessment. It does a couple of things. It gives us a false assessment of our work and we think all people like it. It must be good not necessarily true neither. Is it true that if people don't like it that it's not not good work So we have to be careful. About how much credit we give to the outside world but the other thing is art takes time art is is it requires wires us to think and to stew in things and to go back and retry things and if we throw out that what might eventually be only sketch image but we put it on instagram and everyone was. Oh my God. That's amazing you think. Oh Great. It's my works done here. We never get to the point where we do another sketch image and another an we try it out and we combine ideas and we get to that final in Israel. Yes that is the one there are probably untold millions of these these photographs that never get made because we we sabotage on process. We I think when you make photographs you you should. You should take some time. Not being prescriptive. I'm just saying the benefit taking time is so extraordinary the benefit to Editing Your Work Doc. Quietly on your own and sequencing things small prints and then printing bigger work. So that when you're done a project you have the An portfolio actual images that. You've signed your name to that you've lived with for a while that you've seen the little flaws in them and you've gone back and tweaked. We just get so lazy and and I think again. I don't want to be prescriptive but there are photographs are they're worth so much more than the approach that we often often give them. Okay but but photogr photographer is. It is a visual art. To which means it needs a viewer right so like when would you say. Do you know the moment you know after working on your on a series of photographs on a certain portfolio. When do you know is the moment to actually show Show those images to the world. When when is I think at some point we just you just get to a point? It has to be done where you've printed the image or or you've is lived with it for a while and go. Yeah I am really satisfied with this And I don't know that we always I mean it's not at that point it doesn't end. There have been times when I've done photograph in color that two years later. I've come back to one. Thought I'd like to try to see what this looks like. In Black and white and black and white gives a different expression to that photograph So it's always changing his. I'm not saying it's like wait a week and then you're done I'm just saying let's just I'll slow down a little bit. Let's instead of posting three hundred photographs instagram every week. Let's post one a day and let's be slow about our consumption of them because we're devaluing our stuff off the more we put out. So sometimes I mean I've I have put up images fairly quickly but others. I sit on for a long time and I go. Okay you know is is. Is this really worth it in part because I also want when I eventually do for example a book or a gallery show or something I I want want there to be something left. That people haven't seen that has just been tossed onto social media but again it's it's more from. It's more about the process. I find the slower am to share share and the longer I live with these photographs. The more I realize for example that may be of overcooked in image in post processing. Or maybe there's a diff maybe there's a different frame frame that's actually a stronger expression of this thing and teaches taken more time with the edit again. It's it's not that I mean you see I'm everywhere everywhere on social media. I love social media. I am aware that there are things that does well. And there are some areas in which it provides us an opportunity to maybe sabotage Our own process and we just give ourselves a little more freedom just to not post so much to slow down and also in doing so maybe to appreciate the the work of others a little more slowly rather than look at its swiping it clicking at moving on but actually study it and not consume quite as quickly if we L. slowed down. I think we'd be better photographers. And and we would value are what we do a little bit more than we do. Now you mentioned post processing just reminded me of one last question about the composition. I wanted to ask you before. What are your thoughts on quote unquote adjusting the composition composition during post processing by cropping? The image is it. Is it less valuable less noble way of doing photography for you for me me. I prefer to do keep that to a minimum. But let me go on record yet again is saying I really do not believe in fact I do believe there are no rules there. There is no badge of honor for I mean there you may give yourself your own badge of honor for not cropping an image but if the image is made stronger by a slight slate crop or a readjustment or you realize you know the balance isn't quite right on this. It might be better as a four by five instead of sixteen by nine or vice versa. I I for me. The only thing that matters is the photograph and I will never camp out on. I don't crop my images or only use prime lenses or I only use like I I honestly don't I don't give a damn what people use or how they do it. That's their own decision. I like I have a satisfaction forgetting at it as close as possible in camera but You Know I. Ice Cut my teeth in photography darkroom. And we were always cropping. Dodging and burning and doing all of these traditional techniques. And I didn't do a lot of it. I wasn't advanced at all but there was enough in there that you knew how to take what was potentially very good photograph but would be better if you refined it a little if you slightly adjusted the cross So I think people need to do what serves the photograph. Not What serves their ego. Oh and certainly not. What serves you know the pundits who say all you gotTa do this or you gotta do that you know what? Let them make their own art if they don't WanNa crop. They don't have to crop the individual. I couldn't agree more when I opened a book. You know photographer book and there is a photograph to just you know stops my breath. I really this is the last thing I'm even thinking about. What was what have been dander? was there some crop dodger game. I don't care I just enjoyed it the moment right we we need to just like the comedian will tighten up his set. And and make sure that the punch lines are tight and the setups tight. So that they get the most amount of laughs It's the same thing with writing. I mean how much do any of us want to go to a movie. That never actually got edited. That was just sixteen hours of raw footage or read. Read a book that just the author banged it out on his typewriter zing knock it goes to the publisher. And you're like God this type does and you know there's all of the an editor. You're editing your stuff. The process of refining is for most of us is really important and I think for those of you there are out there near your purist. And you're like no oh God damn it you know. It's it's my prime lens and my like no cropping and that's how they've always done that. It's not if you look through one of my favorite teaching books magnum contact contact sheets. You look through there and see which images were selected out of a roll of thirty six and where where crops were made Editing has always been really important and nobody wants to see all your crap and your mistakes they want to see the most the most powerful photograph if you can make without it. I'd rather see a great photograph. Then your badge of honor this as I don't crop my images of smoothly David type time is going really. I was your last couple of things I mean. Let's couple of questions you mentioned before that and I also agree completely that camera camera. Actually you know the brand or the type of camera doesn't matter at all in the Horno process but so let me ask you because I I'm a forgiven myself and if I'm not mistaken I saw I saw Fujian camera in your hands in one of your recent video so so is it Fuji Fuji these days Fuji x photographer for which is Almost completely meaningless except that I do really like the fuji x t to and they make great lenses I also shoot Nikon underwater because murless. Isn't there yet and I've invested a lot my underwater gear and I have I cannon system for shooting. What little video I I do for my for my video my youtube show But yes right now I love. There's certain things about the Fuji that are just sweet spot for me that for example. The Sony doesn't doesn't have this only doesn't feel right in my hands. I like the old style aperture rings and Shudder dials. It's very I can pick up Fuji X T to in it feels despite a lot of other differences like my OPEC's spot matic or K.. One thousand or that era of perfectly only manual analog camera I the muscle memory is still there so I can work. I can use a Fuji Faster than I can use any other camera right now And that's important. I think the sooner the camera gets out of our away. They sooner we will be making the photographs that we want to be making so for me. That's Fuji it has nothing to do with brand loyalty I just really like the way it feels in my hands ends but over the last ten years I've done Canon Nikon Leica Fuji and little all kinds of quirky. Little things in between photographers. Have this strange relationship with their gear and I love my gear my mantra for the last. What fifteen years has been gear as good? Vision is better. And I think people camp out on that and they're like oh visions veteran and it is it absolutely but gear is good without it we will all be at our our easels painting the cameras his are. What make it photography? And you have to know your craft and and if your camera doesn't feel right in your hand I'm not saying obsess about it it. It's a collaborator collaborator. And it's got to do what needs to do I love my i. Love my Fuji's but again it's more. Because they fit in my hand they have the x St to has that flipped down screen that I can't live without because I like to get really low and explore different. Pov's and you know. I can. I can go now I can go like I just did to this bear Trip with up to not not including Tele extenders up to six hundred millimeters of reach To camera bodies and I can put it in a backpack. That's so so light I can. I can hike with it. I have some mobility issues now after an accident that I need I can't carry that big. DSL arguer anymore and and the DSM. When I do use a DSL are now off Tomasz? It drives me crazy crazy. I'm looking through it. I'm like where's where's my histogram. I can't I you what do you mean. I have to meet her. First then photographed then check my histogram with the with the current batch of murless cameras I can look constantly constantly through my viewfinder and see my screen. I never have to take the camera down and never have to lose a moment and that alone has made me a much more present photographer around whatever gear you have to use to get gear out of the way and be present. That's the gear. You should be using. Thanks much one thing maybe share with it. Was My listeners here. So what are the best online places to find out more about what you're doing what you're apt to. What can people learn about your? I think the best place to go would be my my blog. David Duchemin DOT COM. And from there you'll find find links to my youtube show. Vision is better You'll find links to my portfolio and see what my you know my latest work and links to books. I like my latest book is soul of the camera and you know you can get all my books on Amazon but if you go to my blog David dot com. You can find everything. In addition to that I have have a education site called craft and vision craft envisioned dot com. That's full of e-books both by myself and some of the best photography educators. Here's out there and so you value. This is not just e books. There's also some solid light room presets in there some video tutorials and that sort of thing so Those would be the the two places that you could probably best friend me and of course on on instagram and facebook but you can find those links on my block perfect. We're linked to everything so much once more. David have a have a wonderful for light. Wherever you go and talk to you next time? Thank you so much have a great day. Everyone let your photography friends know about talking to WHO radio and if you haven't done so yet sub strive to the August head over to photography radio DOT COM to find out how to do it. My name is still marsh and I will talk to you next yeah.

David Duchemin Fuji Youtube instagram publisher Photograph Magazine Haiti Canada bear river West Coast David I. Thomas Graf Nikon Elliot Irwin founder officer
Crypto Roulette Returns

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

49:54 min | 1 year ago

Crypto Roulette Returns

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I don't disagree before we get into the future today. I want to clear up something. I said in the teaser about a plane getting hit by a bus doesn't something something happens every day. So technically you're in a plane wreck yeah or or just plain wrong serves true. He's servive so i'm in chicago with my daughter and we're returning back to denver and this is a couple of days ago and were on the plane united. It was a seven thirty seven and we back out in the you know they push us back from the gate and we're sitting there and we're sitting during eventually the pilot comes and he says well apparently we have to pull back to the gate because the wing has been hit by a bus and we look out the window and sure enough. There's a united bus that they use. I guess to transport crew in in whatever and it is dinged dinged up against the left wing that you can see where it says united that it's cracked up there on whatever the glasses you don't wanna fly in that plane after that's up in a little little piece of the wing is is hanging. It's dangling a dangling participle of a wing. I don't know yeah so they. They boarded us. We had to go back and then it was hours later that that was the least climatic a airplane crash of all time it yeah there wasn't much to it all right. I don't disagree with that. Everyone survived. That's so well well except probably for the guy who has drive or gal. Who's driving the bus because that was an expensive wingding. That's what i had take my dad joe. They had to transfer a bunch of people to other flights and then once we're on the flight and i was was an economy for this one <hes> and usually they don't serve you food. You know they'll they'll give you like a bag of pretzels or something but they came around. They were offering cheeseburgers. Everybody everybody free drinks everybody so that was expensive to <hes> do it so there i survived survived congratulations. I'm so glad you survived that now. The question is the people survive today's episode of crypto roulette in here. We go with crypto roulette. We've done this on a couple of other episodes before and it gives us a chance to explore. Many of the crypto currencies tokens that we don't typically talk about on the show. Yeah we typically talk about the top one hundred you know ones that are doing really cool stuff or different projects. Come on to the show and we spotlight but we don't really give news around other other random ones that <hes> that we find and we're gonna do today. We've we've done this before. We've done this. I think we've done this twice before the crypto roulette. I might be wrong. It seems like we've done it twice before. I think you're right travis right okay. This is the third time then is at third time that comes after second third. Time is the charm this perfect then you guys are gonna be charmed and we have a f yeah so basically what we're gonna do is. We're going to use a random number generator that has a random roulette wheel yep <hes> between one and fifteen hundred. Yes and let's load up coin gecko right now together so we're on the same page coined gecko dot com is where we go to see what the crypto prices are are by the way i'm a little sad because bitcoin time stamp here tuesday one fifteen eastern standard time is bitcoins at ten thousand thousand eight hundred and fifteen back under eleven. Oh that's not random. Crypto goes up. Crypto goes down so we actually brought a roulette wheel with us a really big one got it had it shipped in from atlantic city. One of those used ones. I'm gonna put i'm going to put one hundred dollars on fourteen ninety. Okay let's go ahead and spin the wheel and dropped the ball on it goes around and around and around and around and landing on one or eight forty juan forty-one. What's that eight forty one. Is you plex up or up alexa you plex. I think it is u. P. l. e. x. Dot com tom is the website symbol is u._p. Ex and the coin is currently worth point zero zero rose zero four three nine six. Four cents has a market cap of seven hundred thirty six thousand dollars trading volume of fifty three hundred dollars dollars some some low volume here for this one and <hes> what is this travis so this is they are creating fungible internet of things mining experience experience they aim to utilize a portion of their eighteen plus billion current internet of things devices to power the network will be over twenty billion internet of thing devices deployed around the world by twenty twenty and then they're going to create platforms and utility for spending and establish partnerships for anonymous service service payments so it's an interesting thing internet of things mining strong focus on the <hes> making mining profitable for over eight point four billion internet of thing devices allowing plex to become the most decentralized cryptocurrency available they say that not only did they bring privacy for users but they bring extreme kareem privacy extreme privacy extreme extremely modified kryptonite algorithms three reto hall transactions are private and on traceable so this is an anonymous payment service and a non ass- iot powered ecommerce. They say it's fast. They say it's secure it's open source anonymous and what happened here. Look at the the price chart like there's so little volume. Come on it overall that there's this like this huge. There's this precipitous drop that takes place over a few hours an arm straight up again because you know one person put a buy order in i mean the volume is is very low. <hes> we don't know anything about it. They've got a nice website yep q. Three or two thousand eighteen is when their idea launched launched. They did so what balls mining stuff and let's see here. I wonder how far along they are on. Their project looks like they're. They're they're roadmap. They're releasing an android minor. They're doing some proof of work. Updates here. Soon looks like they're still working on it. You can get free <hes> you pecs. It looks like here if you go to their website and subscribe to their newsletter. I don't know if they just if they're doing an airdrop or what they're doing. It just says yes. I want free u._p. Ex i mean who doesn't doesn't want free anything. You know. One problem that i see what this mrs real calm is that you know the the the team. It says here's the team the teams the c._e._o. And co founder lead developer his name is quantum leap her and then the co founder and public relations is meander tall. They're they're real so if you go underneath there <hes> it says his name is kyle pierce. He's he doesn't show him. I screaming actually cuts off. They have the <hes> the option to disclose their identity identity disclosure yes or no because this is a privacy extreme privacy coin. Some of the people on this team have chosen not to disclose who they are but of the four looks like founders that they have here on the team. I'm two of them have their photo with their real name. <hes> and they're linked didn't kyle pierce that is very sweet mustache by the way the blacks a project was founded in thailand over discussions of whether or not the internet of things could lead to the future in terms of providing a truly decentralized proof of work mark powered blockchain since its founding they have been the first in the industry to establish a viable privacy based internet of things proof of work blockchain and are working on several major features. Tell provide solutions to privacy and censorship concerns worldwide this episode not sponsored by you lexa or i should we go to another let spin. It's been the roulette wheel again here. Eric did you drop the ball. Good good ball drop annenberg june raider and the ball is falling and and we've got what number number one to six number one twenty six and <hes>. Let's see that's easy. I'm on the front page of coin. Geckos go to page aged two and the winner is knowles n. u. L. s. I've actually heard of this one before somebody. Somebody told me once upon a time to buy some of this. I don't think that i i actually did it. The token is n. U. l. s. market cap yep of five million eight hundred sixty two thousand is that right yeah and go to the website here and check out. They've actually got going on mr tracks right knowles dot i o. Knowles dot i o pull up right now here using using the brave browser by the way very nice knowles is an open source enterprise great adaptive blockchain platform that offers fast-track business solutions for developers tippers featuring micro services smart contracts cross chain interoperability and instant chain building knowles sets a new industry standard in streamlining lining blockchain adoption. Are we gonna read every one of these sites as though we're you know we're the commercial for them now. Here's their next piece as the light. Nothing makes blockchain easier than knowles to plano so okay. This micro service layer design of knowles makes it easy for developers to quickly create modules for anything in a world where blockchain development as a pain in the butt knowles provides provides fluid cost effective time-saving solutions for developers with a minimum blockchain experienced now. There's nothing on there are knowles chain factory. They may chains the chain box cross chain consensus. I think their community might because this is you know number one hundred and twenty six ext they probably have a community that is not too bad actually opening up yeah. They're they're telegram. Community has over thirteen thousand members so they've definitely got something. Hello knows community heinola. Have you guys yeah this crypto right. You just got a complimentary entry shout out here for zero dollars. Zero knowles knowles nil. It's no it causes the high these so well. I'm not sure what else to say about this that the roadmap they have another. Oh nor ganic process. Their road map is yeah. What's the volume like here. Let's see the volume is is his five million or thirty monday. Okay i read that wrong my apologies to the friends at null almost six million dollars in trading volume. That's pretty substantial. Yeah not not too bad. They got they got it going on. Something's happened in their down ninety five percent from its all time high so if somebody somebody did tell me to buy it you know a year or so ago then. Let's see what was the all time high. I'm going to go to the max here. Knowles hit get all my gosh eight dollars fifty three cents on january ninth two thousand eighteen and now it is currently sitting at forty one centavos. God bless you mr travis right yeah. Forty-one says something in orlando making you sneezy something something in the air. I had a lizard in my room last night. Lizard it was it was about an inch long little tiny baby lizard. Did you drain the lesser sir. I captured it and put it outside aunts okay so there you have it. That's knowles one. B._t._c. is currently equal to twenty any six thousand two hundred twenty one knowles and it is time to drop the ball on the wheel again. What do they call the. It's not a dealer at the roulette we all what do they call the person the roulette her the spinner. This wasn't a seventy s era nba group. He's not a dealer he's. He's like the roulette dealer the rule. I don't know <unk> somebody. Write us and tell us what the weaker dot gov that we want to write us inform us bed crypto podcast g mail dot com for that in all question and the ball has been dropped on the wheel. It is spinning. It is spinning. My head is spinning and the ball is not there. There were the three twenty nine. I put all my money on three thirty long. What is three twenty nine. Three twenty nine is vera block. What's assemble v. e. r. i. b. l. k. the symbol is vk v._p. Cave variable. I congratulations. You're the next contestant on crypto relax come. I'm on down near a fifteen thousand five hundred forty five dollars in volume total market cap six point seven meal yonne the website website for it is very block dot o._r._g. Very v. e. r. I got the market cap trading volume fifteen thousand today currently sitting <hes> just under two cents down ninety three percent from its all time high welcome to all coin hell. This is what happens happens is what happened the most of the coin securing the world's blockchain's using bitcoin so what how are they using their their leveraging aging bitcoin somehow. I'm gonna go to the about page here. Trying to figure out with this thing is it is proof of proof p. O. p. not a new consensus protocol that they have invented which allows any blockchain including side chains and permission ledgers to inherit the full security of bitcoin coin in a truly decentralized trust less transparent in permission list manner. They call a. d. t. t. p. inviting all types of things. You got proof of proof pop the d._t._p. And it says you know me they do so by gema fine. The publication of data representing blockchain's present state to bitcoin such that any user can participate in receive compensation for enabling blockchain's to inherent bitcoin security so if you you build on it using their platform then you get paid so why do they use bitcoin on this as bitcoin. The golden standard of security already has more than forty times the thermos <hes> equivalent computational power to the world's fastest supercomputer so successful attack on bitcoin would require a minimum of six hundred megawatt hours of electricity and over one billion specialized computational infrastructure to to take over bitcoin so pretty hard to do proof only a billion dollars though proof of proof that is really interesting as they're going to be. A proof of proof of proof roof eventually called pop pop pop pop off. It's interesting. This is so they do a lot of security stuff and you know there are enabling ebeling double spin attack prevention there prevention against sustained fifty-one percent attacks early attack detention detection so i don't know this one looks looks. This one actually looks interesting but they've not updated their website. It looks like since march of two thousand nineteen when their main that launched so th they're helping big the claim to be helping bitcoin though so the proof proof minors that secure the veira block blockchain spend bitcoin to publish information on vera blocks present state so that allegedly will increase the pressure for the bitcoin token while paying bitcoin miners higher fees <hes> but they have their own token is well. They've got the very block coin that provides a another layer of proof in the coin is how they pay for the decentralized vero block proof of work and pop minors this. It's a little confusing mr tracks right. I'm totally only confused totally totally. Maybe maybe <hes> watching the explainer videos on here would be helpful. They have a pretty block explorer those you look at screen shot of that. It's very beautiful. I mean it's it's got all kinds of pretty images on it so you know they definitely have a development team and there's a test net that it is <hes> is live right now and apparently you can go see the dashboard live explore via block dot org shows you a number of interesting metrics including where the network is operational. It looks like north america western and eastern europe asia asia and australia and shows you how many are circulating shows you the block time the best block how does one apply to be the best block and he's gonna the best looking one is actually based in george town and the cayman islands <hes> which is interesting and they have been updating their get hub pretty regularly really very nice. Well there you go via block. If nothing else blog vetted by a pretty face for your site here i'm not sure i understand exactly what you're doing but this is what crypto rolette is all about were clueless to begin with and unless somebody out there clueless of this right frito i'll be i'm afraid of so's my dog all right bidding the crypto roulette wheel once more here we go dropping the ball and our crypto dealer or roulette trysts or whatever you are the landing on number number forty five zero. That's were in that back in the top. One hundred this is gonna be a coin in all likelihood that that people have heard of but were going down there now and it is raven coin. We've actually had tron black from raven coin. We have the show before is. Should we really talk about about that again. Though why don't we re producer. Can you do a quick search for bed. Crypto podcast raven coin in see what episode we had tron black on. I mean the number came up. We're giving a shout. That's fair in. We're just gonna reference episode. We're gonna tell you folks were to find that were so spontaneous. I'm gonna turn your mike heinen and you can tell everybody what bad code to go to so you can find episode two thirty three with tron black at bat add coda an forward slash to thirty three. She's good at that very nice ruin. Keep you around. Thanks yeah at least for the end of the show <hes> <hes> so we upgrade okay. Let's go ahead in. We're going to the podcast conference. You never know you might be your last day. We might have a podcast movement to a new producer sir. Maybe some new hosts too. Why don't we just fire ourselves and he has won a host of the show. It'd be like crypto one. I wanted to sell it to somebody else. We don't not really know what happened there but i do know that erin is no longer doing the show and he is traveling <hes>. We're friends on facebook so i see he's going all over america. He's driving arrive in all over the place and seeing the sights berkeley. I'm not sure what that's big. I'm not sure what that's all about <hes> wall. Mr trump's rate readies the roulette wheel for another spin. Let's give a quick shout out to our other sponsor for this episode because of not knowles is not raven coin. It's not pop her mama meemaw very very very e- you're from almost from the south the ever have any family members that called what i'm literally right in the middle. Almost i said almost this out <hes> mhm but are just south view is the south well technically missouri is in the s._e._c. which is the southeastern conference for some reason ba aw i'm literally right in the middle of america over a thousand miles away for a beach and all derives become more literally in the middle than you're denver's more in the middle of america so then if you look at the literally right in the moment in the middle of the city okay so do you ever no. That's why kansas city of that movie the day after like with a nuclear bombs going off right right in the middle of america kansas right there lawrence actually lawrence's really close so sorry yes. Oxtail must've been horrible. Yeah we all died and then it was worse than that was a simulation day after day. After which was the day after tomorrow they after the day after it was really bad yeah <hes> so d- do you know anybody that ever called their grandmother meemaw much of her meemaw before i hit some family members on the other side of the family that had family members say meemaw and i wanted to slap those kids senseless every time i heard it. I am not a child abuser. Just you know to <hes>. I wouldn't actually slap epa child but in my mind the there was some my son. My son called his maternal. Grandpa calls him bumper like a little kid. He's a little baby pronounce. Pronounce it yeah so bump is he still calls him. He's still bumper to bumper on gee-gee wants. A bump is a bump on in once a nas- go always anez go dr sponsor an open source decentralized network that opens up endless opportunities for web three point. Oh through the creation and deployment of de apps encrypted cryptographic secure digital assets on a trust louis blockchain. This is immune to a single point of failure. Can't it's not gonna fail. Gang nasr go is an immutable mutable blockchain network connects developers and s._m._e.'s to a global community of clients allows them to take advantage of the modern age blockchain technology to the fullest there. There's a smart team behind nasr go a whole family of apps that are being developed. Check them out at nasio dot com once again. That's nasko lasko dot. Com operators are standing by let spin the wheel. Mr joke real hair goes and the letter person is spinning dropping topping the ball there it goes around and around and around and slowing slowing slowing landing in what we get number eleven sixty three. Oh we're going away down the charts. Eleven sixty three is what it is jewel coin jagdeo u. L. e. coin june com j. rule wait j. o. J. o. u. l. e. I think's it's gotta have something to do with energy. Token is x j. Oh there it is and a low token price and a low market cap app one hundred and eighty three thousand dollars market cap currently valued at point zero zero four six cents. A token looks like twenty four hour. Trading volume was colonel not to be confused with the null coin. One dollar will get you. Almost two hundred fourteen x j owes joel coin is is a cryptic is actually redirect from their site. Jewel coin is crypto currency with quick confirmations and transaction comments. The site is is is vanilla sexy. No it's like <hes> internet. Circa nineteen ninety nine is very factual as the only images the jewel jewel coin logo. That's it and in the one line about what it is. There's downloads for a bunch of wallets. Mining pools exchange actually really trading on crypto job isn't crypto pia defunct crypto bia's that one that went no wonder they founded the website back in two thousand thirteen okay okay last update was in two thousand eighteen. I think this project's probably defunct. I think this project is defunct to the copyright on the website is two thousand thirteen through two thousand seventeen. If you you wanna see what a dead project looks like go to jewel co dot. I n not to be confused with joe com coin yeah yeah. The last major wall upgrade they did was january eighteenth two thousand eighteen so they did a wall to upgrade right after what what was a probably an all time high. I'm guessing if we look at their their charts and go back to the mat and we're done with this back in january january during the all time high they hit just shy of eight cents and then it went into complete meltdown in fact. If you go voted june of this year it was literally worth not even once a tosi it is the price and the volume was at zero period korea zero since then it has somehow recovered with a volume of four dollars and eighteen cents somebody. Somebody bought a few <hes> but yeah yeah. This project is pretty much dead but i think this is actually a <hes>. How it still has a market cap of one hundred and eighty three thousand makes absolutely no percents probably because one person you know bought some but this is the only thing that the the crypto graveyard is important bright to show people all that hey there's a lot of ideas and i don't know if this was ever a good idea or not but not every project wins everything in eventually everything dies through through you. Mr joel knew me this podcast this table. This table is gonna well. This is already. It's made from a dead tree. Yeah the mac book will die that is that is true. Okay going onto the next project and hopefully one that is not dead it. What's funny to me is there's projects aren't dead that aren't in the the top fifteen hundred right. There's live projects that are ranked number three thousand or so but you still have a project here that should be a radical evacuated emasculated rolling rolling rolling to keep more of leading role. Is somebody wrote us. We got an email yesterday and somebody said <hes> that we crack them up especially. When you try to sing i tried to send they like that so more more of your singing right number seven number four seventy nine lunar l. u. n. y. r. l. u. N. is the token and while it just went up almost ten percent. It's at one dollar and thirty one cents got a market cap of three point five million dollar and <hes> seven twenty six seven hundred twenty six thousand on dollars of trading volume proof that in the internet age spelling need not apply lunar l. u. n. y. R. dot com the website is <music> very simple tryout lunar with lunar. You'll be able to contribute and peer review information for rewards and completely decentralized way so it sounds to me. This is something like what our friends at bravo coin might be doing an alternative to yelp and tripadvisor there you can you use mac o._s. Windows or lennox for this so it appears to be desktop only and you contribute impure appear review information for c. b. n. h. n. r. points withdraw c._b._n. Points for l. u. n. so i don't know so why they've got three different tokens here and you can spend the l. u. N. tokens to advertise on the lunar platform. It's interesting that it is only that it is only on desktops. You literally have to download the app and <hes> download the desktop app not a mobile we'll app and so it's a it's a theory and base decentralized world knowledge base which rewards users with app tokens for viewing attributing information interesting. I think they want reliable accurate information and then they've got a vision here that goes beyond with the knowledge base that people are creating. They you want to open up an a._p._i. So developers can create decentralized applications artificial intelligence virtual reality augmented reality and more that seems to be the vision here l. u. n. y. R. dot com is the website <hes> so i was doing doing a little research for our show notes as a producer as want to do correct and i noticed that lunar has not been and been active on twitter since november twenty eighteen. Oh really sure what's going on there. Let me check out their telegram here. Their community pretty has sixty members six. Oh and six of them are online right now so i guess it's not completely pay six the heavy ballistic over thirty thousand followers on twitter. We'll but here's the thing it's still it's trading with you. Know decent volume seven hundred twenty six thousand dollars over the last twenty four hours and people are buying and selling it said a buck thirty so maybe they've just just abandoned twitter and are using they are unbinding since so. They're on the biggest exchange out there but thanks for that important piece of information. Thanks for producing real rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling rolling wounding number or one to four zero that you're going to say one to form. Didn't we just do. We did want to six okay one two four four zero. We're going way down the charts odds of finding another dead project probably pretty good bad coin no now did you. That was not random. I totally rigged mr chavez right dot net. That is the project coin. It is a market cap of one hundred thirty six thousand five hundred twenty six dollars for one dollar you can by forty four thousand five hundred and forty-three bagley gosh but the website hasn't been updated in a few months okay excellent. Are you ready folks. Are we've been reading. It is the quantum resistant ledger q. r. o. For market cap of fourteen million dollars a volume william of eight thousand dollars in the last twenty four hours very interesting to see the coin. You know this quantum system leger. It's had some. It sounded have a good run. It's only got sixty nine million or so tokens and it's going to twenty cents right now so the website is the q. r. l. dot org because they probably couldn't get q._r. a._l. Dot org being three letter. The quantum resistant ledger secure digital assets sets for longevity externally audited enterprise grade blockchain platform secure against an attack from quantum computers. You know of course this is one of the the big questions that people have in the crypto spaces bitcoin yes in hackel. The blockchain is an hackel as is but what what happens when we have quantum computing. You understand quantum computing a little bit better than i do. Can you explain what that is. Okay so imagine this right here. As a a flat plane so computations now happens one lie so computations happened on one level on one plane when you're doing in quantum computing <hes> it's happening on that one plane but then also many levels of <hes> on top of that so they're able to do concurrent <hes> the processing on multiple layers in multiple in multiple areas at the same time so it can increase the speed supercomputers exponentially because you're not doing on one. I don't even know by how much but i do know that the thought of quantum computing in bitcoin it coins scares people but what will happen is we've chatted with many people about this and what they said is that the bitcoin core team will just you know. Bitcoin is not stagnant agnew. It's always being developed. Upon new technology comes up. They're going to make those. They're gonna make those adjustments to make sure that that quantum computing doesn't kill those those those algorithms so theoretically if somebody were to try to hack corruption the encryption the bitcoin blockchain it's not that it's unhappy it said it would take millions of years to do it right and that we don't have the processing power to do that quickly but with quantum computing the amount of <hes> attempts and permutations that a hacker could use increases by a factor factor of thousands millions and thereby shortening the amount of time it would take to process. It's the right key to hack into a blockchain is that is that a good work <hes> explanation now. There's a really great video on youtube <hes> <unk> by three blue one brown the name of the channel and it's how secure is to fifty six bit security and there's also have a great video on how does bitcoin actually work but it's it's called how secure is to fifty six bit security by three blue one brown and he's he's like some math is a math genius and he really explains these do things really well and he talks about two two bus. The two fifty six show algorithm how much computational power you would need. It's astronomical right but quantum quantum computing will will actually change that quantum busters so these guys <hes> the q._r. a._l. Dot org are attempting to build a quantum quantum computing resistant blockchain so that eventually when we do reach quantum computing they're already. They already claimed to have the technology in place. It's mineable. There's a desktop wallet a web wallet. There's apps available for i._o._s. And for android it his it's integrated with ledger technology asia and lots of interesting information here for those that want to nerd out on a project that claims to be resistant to quantum computing. I think <hes> do another one another one this episode appear to you by being such a quarrel. Aw number is number one to four zero. Oh it's bad coin again. It's not it's number four six seven four six seven. Please check your tickets. Four six seven houben go of one but used pair of bad coin sox. Nobody wants to those four. Maybe they do listen to come more the it could be just out there that i don't want that new bitcoin socks give me some that have been jolts stinky feet. We should sell those artists. Four six seven nucleus vision spell it nucleus in u._c. L. e. u. s. vision. It's the n._c._a._a. Token i c. n. Cash is that the same thing and cash cash nope in cash in cash nucleus dot com vision <hes> by the way i heard you say nuclear before uh-huh taint its nucleus say nuclear nuclear k. I just wanted to make sure your because people i mean the president you say new president. Bush rush used to say they'll do bush. He do bush to really. Have you ever tried to listen to him and then i could but you could hear he's because he's so pronounced such distinct but he would always say nuclear. I'm like you're the president say the word 'nuclear. It's not nuclear. Nuclear makes me crazy. They sound very similar to me but typically speaking people say that intensive purpose all intensive purposes purpose nucleus vision. Can you tell who entered your store or your office or your home week hand and how they're watching us. That's creepy right pathbreaking proprietary technology. <hes> mid doesn't depend on r._f._i._d. Wi fi bluetooth or facial recognition but it's definitely some sort of we know where you are <hes> type of deal so the retailer they install the ion on sensor the sensor identifies customers the orbit since the data over secure orbit layer the new ron treats real personal realtime hi personas and the customer gets a recommendation so probably on their phone so likely walk in and and boop knows them. It knows what they like and then you should check this out. You should check that out. That'd be so handy really going to a store and shopping. Although who goes to stores and shops is actually being used so <hes> there they do have their news here saying that they are partnering with some stores in the hospitality sector with a clothing retailer. I'm india so wouldn't you walk into the store. We know exactly who you are. Mr travis right. That's very good. You could do better than it's okay. You're not gonna try oh by golly. Would you like a big old horrible as a good way because it's okay to tell l. jokes people. It's okay okay yeah. I mean if you want to do it a jewish accent at my expense a laugh go for it so i'll do one to. Hey bobby. Look you're getting thin there. You need to eat a little oxygen bagels. You wanna little schmear with you. You'll at the bagel you know it. Schmear is right. I have no idea what cream cheese schmidt angles and schmear humira thing yeah. It's called smearing well people. That's what they they call. It smeared on fairness. I learned so much from me with social nucleus dot vision. It does look very interesting. This is pretty prominent in india. It looks as if a lot out of stuff going on over in india telling you you don't the hindu real new dot com on the times of india. I sorted voter future of retail email about this one yeah. That's okay bringing. Send your send your cards and letters to offend you folks so so we really wish you would get a sense of that. You can go buy one to seven eleven. Go buy one at the retail shop there for us. Visually mr travis right. We got time for one more so let's drop the ball. Should we like a good number of medium number one number second roller to let's go way down. Let's let's for this swan. Let's pick a number between two and three thousand. Let's go way down the walls and pick a <hes> okay so here we go miss <hes> bring in the big roulette wheel. Please break that one right the what we two thousand five okay. We're going all the way into the gutter here for this which means you're not gonna find bad coin. There won't true okay all right. What are we got. The number is three thousand two hundred and seventy four a what is it. I can't wait for this. One is hope it's just literally called coin. I gotta go. I gotta go all the way down to page thirty three for this one on my we're waiting here with bated baited breath. It's kind of like squid numbers three to seven four and the token is in the token is crypto crypto flow. It's the cfl token crypto flow. You know you just gotta go. You listen to crypto stub your toe and that's how you get with the crypto flow crypto slow the f. l. Don't you know crypto. The flow coat dot co dot u._k. Is the website it's worth point zero zero zero one. It's worth more than a bad cold trading volume liam fifty seven cents for one dollar. You can get nine thousand one hundred forty nine of them. <hes> we check out the website. Crypto flow dot co dot u. the u._k. And there is a website <hes> i._t._o. Registration in progress crypto flow developments. Your crypto backed by property birdie developments and there is a construction cranes on the website so that's the proof that they're building things. This is straight up looks like they built this in powerpoint our point and they're trying to raise money. They are based in manchester england and and <hes> never before has any coin given its investors the opportunity to not only make a return on their investment through real time property developments but also the security already that should the coin price rise or fall while locked in the investment. They also will not lose out. You can't lose out j. Little grammar here dude dude. They need some grammar pro. They got some brand prowls over here. S e lose. I like this whole o. S. e. loose there. I just go down a little bit more says. If if you're a professional in the development are a professional. I also our profession that you know they. They should pay us some of their tokens because we are spell checking in proofreading for them. This could be a second of spelling peo- us. That's great okay so <hes> yeah. We're not recommending that or any tokens that have been mentioned on the show. We're not even recommending commending bad coin because it's bad. We don't even recommend bitcoin. We don't we just recommend you do your own due diligence and do your own research on any of these projects and if any of them are interesting to see you then do research on them connect with the community see if it's legit. I don't take anyone's word for anything. Don't take the media's word for anything. Don and we're technically independent media c._b._s. Don't take our word for anything either. That's right but please do keep listening to bad crypto. Tell your friends tell your neighbors. Tell your hamsters. Hamsters are especially fond of the show were big in hamster ville. That's what i heard anyway from a hamster and <hes> ms cell. Would you like to take us out of the show uh-huh and give instruction to our listeners and by the time everybody to in the bad crypto podcast is a production of bad crypto l._l._c. the content of the show the videos and the website is provided for educational informational and entertainment purposes. Only it's not intended to be does not constitute financial investment or trading advice of any kind you shouldn't make any decisions uh-huh as to finances investing trading or anything else based on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation with the professional financial advisor. Please understand that the trading of bitcoins and alternative crypto currencies have potential risks involved anyone wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens mentioned on this podcast. Should i seek their own independent professional financial advisor. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the dominion energy energy reliability investment. Our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the dominion energy reliability investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com tom that reliability investment dot com say metro by t mobile. Get the best deal in wireless and it's all for you all for me to switch quickly because metro has to lance but eighty and to samsung galaxy j sevenstock bones for free plus amazon prime included. That's the way wireless should be not only at metro sales tax activation fee fifty dollars plus rate plan required not valid for numbers currently on t. mobile network on metro past ninety days offer subject to change offer valid for new amazon prime members amazon prime has a twelve nine per month restrictions apply see store for details and terms and conditions.

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Ep. 863 - The Leftist Flu

The Andrew Klavan Show

47:26 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 863 - The Leftist Flu

"Many on the left are saying that the current crisis is demonstrating the virtues of socialism. For instance they since we need big government spending now in this emergency that shows we should have big government spending all the time or since government has to support healthcare now that shows government should pay for healthcare all the time now. I always agree to the logic of the left because it keeps them pacified and gives me a chance to back away slowly before suddenly hitting them on the side of the head with a two by four so I can run away before they must Ramab of Balaclava wearing knuckleheads looking to kill anyone with a different opinion so I decided to live by these brilliant leftist arguments for the CBO future or until my theme song starts whichever comes first for instance if you should come down with a serious case of the virus and end up in a hospital bed with a ventilator mask on tubes running in and out of every orifice of your body. That's who shows. You should live like that all the time and maybe put your leg in a cast as well just for good measure if your city is suddenly turned from a vibrant center of Culture and Commerce into an empty series of stone canyons in which the most entertaining thing happening is a crumpled piece of paper. Cotton Swirling updraft. Then you should abandon the city all the time and returned to the land where you can use your many agricultural skills like excavating your left nostril while watching net flicks and if you're an outgoing social butterfly who suddenly finds herself huddling alone in a room hoping a loved one. We'll find your body H- you should live like that all the time or until you turn to useful mulch. Thus by applying leftist logic to all the actions taking during an emergency it turns out we really can learn something namely never used left his logic at all trigger warning. I'm Andrew Klavan and this is the Andrew Klavan show. I'm relieved Thompson. Were so wonderful to sing so I was talking earlier this week about the possibility that good things might come out of this bad situation. Obviously that's in no way to belittle tragedy that's already come out of it which will surely get worse before it gets better or the economic trouble. I know it's causing which likewise is likely to get worse before improving. But as I said before it's possible that in stepping back out of the flow of social business will discover there have been some ways in which human life has been evolving weren't so good for human life may be at home. Motherhood really is better for everyone then career. Maybe some time alone to read and think is better than constant social interaction. Maybe even the occasional contemplation of death can be edifying. We can always hope anyway to find good things and bad times but there's one idea from this crisis that I think we can take away already. Normal is good in this wonderful country. Normal is good even some of the normal things. We sometimes complain about our good. Some young people are acting like idiots endangering older people by spreading infection but young people acting like idiots is normal in normal times a little youthful idiocy makes life more crazy and beautiful young people should isolate now but look forward to getting back to their normal idiotic sells small businesses or endanger. Work is good and small. Businesses are good. They are the physical expression of the very human urged better oneself to hard work and innovation. Let's hope when our small businesses get back to normal governments and left the states like when I'm in California will realize they should stop regulating them to death and we don't need a guaranteed income. We need work. Work is good and friends and family obviously are good. Not because they're not a bunch of aggravating idiots. I've met your friends and Family. Definitely aggravating idiots but because you're stuck with them and being stuck with them teaches you to love the unlovable and tolerate the intolerable and moves you a little bit closer to what God wants you to be. It's a wise and fine thing to make the best of a crisis and learn from it but when it's over it might also be wise and fine to remember and appreciate just how good American normal really is all right. We're going to talk more about everything that's going on but first let's talk about paint your life because you're sitting there alone in can't get out. I know I'm isolated. You want to be looking at something. Nice you want to be looking at something beautiful. And this is something truly meaningful and it's a meaningful gift you can give to somebody who's paint. Your Life Dot Com. You can have an original painting yourself your children your family special place that you love or cherished pet out a price you can afford from paint your life dot Com. I got one of myself. I put it in the office because I didn't want my wife to start throwing darts at it but it's still there whenever I get back to my studio I'll get to see it again and it really is nice. It's this is a real painting done by hand by a world. Class artists created from a favourite photo of yours. It makes the perfect gift for birthdays. Anniversaries or special family holidays or just to celebrate being shot as a limited time offer. You can get thirty percent off your painting. That's thirty percent off and free shipping to get this special offer. Text the word Andrew to sixty four thousand. That's Andrew Sixty four thousand that's A. N. D. R. E. W. Two sixty four zero zero zero patriot. I forgot the mailbag coming up. And all your problems will be solved. You'll be screaming like that by the end of the show. I know things are tough right now. I really do. I know some people have been yelling at me about joking around all the time but believe me if I could reach out and help you economically ago could reach out and keep you healthy. I would do that. I don't have that power. I have this power. I hope I entertain US during the laugh my way through the apocalypse which I've been doing anyway even before the apocalypse actually began. You know if you listen to the show you know that I Love Ghost stories. I'm just a big story fan. Even in this crisis I have Amazon delivering anthologies that I with one story. I haven't read yet a great ghost stories by Richard Matheson. You've probably have never heard the name. Richard Matheson but he's a terrific writer. He wrote the book. I am legend. He's the late Richard Matheson. He wrote the book. I am legend which became the last man on earth and I think they made it with will Smith again. The incredible shrinking man was a famous movie when I was a Kid. Stir of echoes with Kevin Bacon Film. Hell House these are all based on books that he wrote very creative with a lot of twilight zone episodes and one of his twilight zone episode was about a box with a button on it and this couple is struggling in their You know having very hard economic times and a guy shows up at their door the box on a button on it and he said if you press this button and show. It's a long time ago. It's two hundred thousand dollars per se a million bucks press this button. I will give you a million dollars and someone you don't even know will die. And so they discussed. This guy goes away. Leaves them the box with the button? The buttons not even attached to anything. They don't know what will happen. They keep talking through hoping. Well maybe if I press the button somebody was eight years old. There's somebody who has cancer or somebody who's really having a hard life will be put out of their misery. They keep talking about it and finally the wife of the couple decide. She's got to do what she presses. The button miniature presses the button the door opens. There's the guy again with a suitcase. Filled with a million dollars and he gives her a million dollars and he takes the button away and he says. I'm just going to move on. I'm GonNa give this to someone else and let me assure you. I'm going to give it to someone you don't know okay. That's the situation we're in now and I'm speaking especially to people who are out boo going still going out to bars still going out to beaches. Who were not thinking about the fact that you spread an infection to people you don't know and you think well this is only dangerous to old people but and my. I'm in Ohio and my grandma's and Florida but the thing is somebody else's in Florida with a grandma Ohio and so we're all kind of taking care of each other and of course the most important thing isn't it doesn't get back to me. That's the thing we want to be thinking about some just. Some people are not thinking. They're not thinking. Hey you know if I spread this now if I you. Don't they're trying to flatten the curve? Peak so that the hospitals can the incoming right especially older people. And so you want to help them out doing that. Maybe not going out to a bar maybe not going out to a party maybe not going out to the beach living just a little bit differently this one time. It's what they call the social contract. We're all in it together. It's a it's incredibly annoying. I know it is. It's a little easier for a writer like me who spent so much of my time alone and actually kind of enjoys being alone but still still you WanNa think about somebody. You don't know because somebody who doesn't know you is thinking about you. That's the whole thing thing. That's a reason I tell that go story is a wonderful story. That reminds us of what's going on. So everything's changing. We're going to talk about all the news that's coming up and then we'll talk about The mail bag because there's some terrific terrific questions today Especially some questions about where we stand in the middle of this crisis a lot of people talking about the different ways we can deal with this and of course. There's all kinds of things we're going to learn from this so the next time we do it better but so far. They're doing the best they can. And we'll talk about everything that's going on but first before we talk about everything that's going on. Let me do one more ad. And then we'll get in to that it is This is for the number of new sponsor. And here's the thing. This is about building a business. You're building a business because you WANNA be free. I talking about small businesses. Everybody loves small businesses. But you building a business so you can be your own boss and the thing is you do not want the business to subsume your life to consume your life. You don't WanNa Hustle till you die. You don't want success at no matter what the cost. You don't WanNa miss your marriage and your kids growing up in all this stuff. It doesn't have to be that way. You can grow business without sacrificing your family and character so let me tell you about Benham brothers and the Benham brothers over a dozen businesses including a real estate empire that spans over thirty five states and they didn't sell their soul for it. That name might even ring a bell. The Benham brothers were slated for a reality TV show in HDTV and were cancelled because of their commitments to conservative values. So-called business coaches. Tell you that your life has to take a back seat to your hustle. David and Jason Benham approved that. That's a lie and just this week. The Benham Brothers launched their new course expert ownership. It's the model. They've used to build each one of their businesses. Whether you're sick the nine to five or have a ten year old business expert ownership can help you achieve your goals to celebrate the launch of their new. Course they're offering fifteen percent off the new members. You can check out a preview of the course and take advantage of that discount over. Benham brothers DOT COM SLASH CLEVELAND. That's B. N. H. A. M. Brothers Dot Com Slash. Cliven on over there to check out the course there is a knee and Benham but there is no e in Klavan. You GotTa know how to live all right. Big Stimulus package. The trump administration is trying to come up with it may cost up to a trillion dollars. Try and keep businesses afloat. Some of it is stimulus. Some of it may just be direct payments to workers. Steve MNUCHIN was describing. This is not the This is the first Steve Mnuchin quick clip number four. The president and I worked on a very significant economic stimulus plan and these will be payments to small businesses We've talked about. Loan guarantees to critical industries such as airlines and hotels. And we've also talked about a stimulus package to the American worker. You can think of this. Is something like business interruption payments for the American worker the President likes the idea of the payroll tax. Holiday will tell you what we've heard for. Many people in the president said we can consider this the payroll tax holiday would get people money over the next six to eight months. We're looking at sending checks to Americans immediately and what we've heard from hardworking Americans. Many companies have now shutdown whether it's bars or restaurants Americans need cash now and the president wants to get cash now and I mean now in the next two weeks so people are saying this is the Andrew Yang Plan. Maybe we should always go with the Andrea angling. That reasoning is absolutely species. Absolutely ridiculous. Just because you do things in a crisis doesn't mean you do. All the time at people should not have to explain. This shouldn't have to explain it to the New York Times. They're just pushing socialism pushing it if we had socialism coming up to this. We wouldn't have the goods that we have to get through this. It is normal times. You want your capitalism to be building the wealth that takes you through these crisis moments but the point thing. The press is is focusing on the things that really matter This cut number two as a questioned. Donald Trump about something that is I know so important to us all Hyena. The others have criticized using the phrase Chinese virus. I continue using. China was putting out information which was false that our military gave this to them. That was false and rather than having an argument I said I have to call it where it came from. It did come from China so I think it's a very accurate term but no I didn't appreciate the fact that China was saying that our military gave it to them. Our military did not give give it to anybody now. Phrased credit stigma. No pigs are saying that our military gave it to them creates a stigma for trump. Here's a basic rule of basic rule when the left or journalists but I repeat myself starts talking about what things are called means. Conservatives are right so trump is doing a good job and the way you can tell. Trump is doing. A good job is because this is becoming an issue right. If you hear people say oh you know there's a lot of crime in black neighborhoods in the. Let's as you said black supposed to say African American that means there's a lot of crime in black neighborhoods. That's what that means. So anytime they're talking about what things are called anytime they're talking about words they're just simply trying to seize control of the discussion and throw smoke basically to cover up the fact that something they don't like is happening. Which is that. Donald Trump is doing a good job even Dana Bash. Hell FROZE OVER DANA. Bash on CNN said so this was remarkable from the president of the United States. This is a nonpartisan. This is an important thing to note and to applaud from an American standpoint from an from a human standpoint. He is being the kind of leader that people need at least in tone today and yesterday in tone that people need and want and urine for in times of crisis and uncertainty. No mustard must have frozen over but remember this if you call it the Chinese virus if you call it the Kung flu if you call it the flu man shoe if you call it any of those things how it will be. You know it'll be like it'll be like net neutrality when they ended met tragedy. It'll be like the Paris accords. People will die. Here's Kareen jean-pierre on MSNBC IF YOU call it. The Chinese why people would cut through. The xenophobia and racism in outbreak is such a common thing. We've seen it in past health outbreaks that we've seen in this country's history. The problem is it's coming directly from the president of the United States and it is incredibly dangerous. It is problematic and it is scary and I just really WANNA call that out because you do have people in the Asian American community whose lives are at risk and for the president to call it a Chinese virus or foreign virus. That is just not just so dangerous and not a good thing to do. Obviously the press is really concerned about that but not always we have. A montage was sent to us by our friends. Over at the media. Research Council The newsbusters site that I love so much and they sent us this. This is Chris Cuomo. It starts with Chris. Cuomo calling people out for saying the Chinese flew flew Kong flu or flu metro or you know the yellow peril or whatever calling and then the rest is the media. This is all happening at a time. That was starting to see a message shift here because you starting to hear the Republicans especially trump co calling it the Wuhan or the Chinese Corona Virus. They're looking for someone to blame. Concern is growing this morning over. At outbreak of a new SARS like virus in China at least six people have died from the Wuhan Corona virus the Wuhan Corona virus that will carling virus the thirty four year old ophthalmologist diagnosed. Saturday with the Wuhan Corona Virus Virus Han Corona virus. What more can you tell us about the similarities or differences between SARS the Han Corona virus the Wuhan Corona virus a Wuhan Corona virus in China Corona Virus Corona virus and the Wuhan Corona Virus? Wuhan Corona virus is continue to grow over the outbreak of the Wuhan Corona Virus Wuhan Corona Virus Wuhan Corona Virus Wuhan Corona Virus. We have new information about how the Wuhan Corona Virus. Not right right right right. Jim Geraghty over the national review talks about this and he quotes the Times of London. Chinese laboratories identified a mystery vise virus as a highly infectious new pathogen by late December last year. But they were ordered to Stop Test Destroy Samples and suppress the news at Chinese media. Outlet has revealed a regional health official in one center of the outbreak. demanded the destruction of the lab samples that establish the cause of unexplained viral pneumonia on January. First China did not acknowledge there was human to human transmission until more than three weeks later. I mean this just goes on and on. They covered it up. They just chased the Washington Post. The New York Times and one other paper out of the out of China because they don't want information to spread what they'll bring back here where they won't spread information and Chinese authorities denied it all through January. People still still disappear in China. If they tell the truth. I mean this is something they keep doing. And meanwhile there are trump is absolutely right. They have been spreading this classic Chinese propaganda that somehow the American military spread it into China. Because this is always true of Chinese government of Chinese Communist governments is always true of communist governments. They cannot take the blame for anything. It was like in Russia when they had a serial killer they said. Oh No there are no serial killers under communism so that can't be happening and the guy just went nuts and kept doing what he was doing because they can't take the blame for anything because they are living off theory. They're living off a theory. Instead of off Reality Marco Rubio's talking good sense on Tucker Carlson last night and pointed out that this is why trump is right about bringing business to America and buying American. This country made a decision about thirty years ago that the most efficient allocation of capital was to move many of the means of production to other countries. It was cheaper China but just Chinese places. Well now we that vulnerability is being exposed. It's not just China anymore. India Germany Japan. A lot of the key ingredients and components for all kinds of things from tylenol all the way to pharmaceuticals electronics those components. Even if we make the final product here we depend on those countries for those components. And they're hoarding them. They're holding onto them because they need them to deal with the downturn so or because their factories have been closed it has revealed that industrial strength is a key component of the national security of any country and sadly it's taken this crisis to reveal that to a lot of people you know. It's really really interesting when you think about it that it's donald trump who had a care for the working men it's it's Bernie Sanders who keeps thundering about the working man. But it's Donald Trump was taking is actually taking care of the working man thinking about the fact that he wanted factories and manufacturing back in America by just thinking about that simple fact that there shouldn't be remember his his inaugural address when he talked about the rusting factories. This American carnage. And I'm very dark. Who that's so dark so dark but suddenly he has turned that darkness really. Has I mean? It's it's amazing to me that the suicide rate the death by drugs and so forth and duct death by misery has dropped under trump. It's him who has really taken care of the little guy and his pain off now and we'll pay off in the future so now while you're sitting around while you've got nothing else to this is the perfect time the perfect time to start to preserve your memories with legacy boxes the kind of thing that you let go and you let it go and you don't get around to doing it and things can spoil tape tape can spoil. Pictures can get ruined but now is a good time. If you've got some time on your hands to go and use legacy box legacy is boxes away for you to easily and affordably digitally preserve your pass. It's so easy. Just pack up your stuff. Send it over and then receive perfectly preserved digital copies on a thumb drive. Dvd or the cloud. I've used it. It really is incredibly easy as really simple. You're not just protecting these memories. From a fire. Over the decades a lot of things can happen. You can lose photographs to mold. The jazz tapes can grow old and don't work. Dvd's scratch legacy boxes of the world's largest digitized home movies and photos and has helped over seven hundred fifty thousand families digitally preserve their past including mine get started preserving your pass today. Go to legacybox dot com slash Clayton to get an incredible forty percent off your first order by today to take advantage of this exclusive offer. Send in when you're ready to legacybox dot com slash Clayton and save forty percent while supplies last memories matter and you always want to remember how to spell Cleveland. The important those are the important memories right because sometimes that's one of the things I forget something. The primaries there's actually were primaries Bernie Sanders is getting The the communism beaten out of him Joe Biden easily defeated Sanders in three major primaries on Tuesday According to The New York Times has all but extinguished Mr Sanders. Chances for a comeback. As anxious Americans turned out to vote amid a series of cascading disruptions from the corona virus. Pandemic this is Florida Illinois Arizona. The numbers in Florida are hilarious Really when you think about it. It's sixty three percent for Biden to twenty three percent To Bernie maybe Bernie has found out that people who actually have experienced Castro. Don't care about his literacy program. They didn't like all the killing and being imprisoned and being impoverished you. I've always that thing. I gotta say I know that stopped a lot of people the praising Castro for literacy program but it was really that moment when he was doing a town hall. I think it was on Fox. He was doing a town hall and he praised. Castro's literacy program. People started booing. And really really. You don't like literacy. I mean it's amazing. Amazing small-minded Rigid way of thinking another thing about Donald Trump. And listen you know. You've you've listened to the show you've heard me criticize Donald Trump. A lot for some of the things he does but the thing about him is that I've said from the very beginning. He does learn while people keep calling him stupid while people keep saying. He's a moron. He's a sociopath he actually learns in situations and so even the people now who are saying well he said this before and now he's finally taking this seriously right. He learned. They didn't know he didn't know now he knows now he he's got it and he learns he does better as he goes along. Bernie. Sanders hasn't changed. His mind really really hasn't changed his mind. Since the Rosenbergs were executed and Biden doesn't have a mind anymore so now biden is on the role. He's doing well or this. This video Biden Hologram Biden. So he's reaching out to Bernie's voters and he made this speech where he appealed to them. It's cut fourteen senator. Sanders and I may disagree on tactics but we share a common vision for the need to provide affordable healthcare for all Americans reducing income equity that has risen so drastically to tackling the existential threat of our time. Climate Change Senator Sanders in his supporters of broader remarkable passionate tenacity. To all of these issues together they have shifted the fundamental conversation in this country. So let me say especially to the young voters who have been inspired by Senator Sanders. I hear you. I know it's a steak I know what we have to do. Our goal is a campaign and my goal is a candidate for president is to unify this party and then to unify the nation so he makes it appeal because he knows that the people repealing them are liberals but there are some. Some of them are extremely liberal. Some of them are moderate liberally once. That's his job now to bring those people together he's GonNA attack a little bit to the right because he's tacked very far to the left. I just want to say that was a remote broadcast and it all described this. If you're not watching it but I I'll I'll play it. This is how that broadcasts ended. Thank you all. Thank you for listening. Thanks thanks okay. He's room by himself right. You know this is crew and he just keeps staring at the cameras. Expect something to happen and finally his wife comes on and it's come away now come on now father. Thank you home. This is the guy who's GonNa be handling and the Democrat mind. This is the guy who's going to be handling the next crisis and sitting there staring into the camera going what do I do now? Jill will be taking care of them and it's time it's horrid Joe. It'll I can't even believe they're talking about electing this guy as opposed to the vibrant guy with ideas that we have and they're now but they are and meanwhile Bernie I love I. Love Bernie Bernie is using. Never let it go to waste of your communist Bernie is using this crisis to sell what he has been selling all these many many years Have we got this clip here? There is play play Bernie. We must make sure that companies they get bailouts are required to sell equity to the government and put workers on the board of directors it's like Ebony Scrooge involved old bailout your company but he become the company I it's like he thinks there's going to be government bailouts of companies there may be if there's a ballot of company than the Government owns the company. What good is it for? The government ought to own the company. The government doesn't do anything well. The government doesn't do anything well except these emergencies because it has all this money and all these resources but it doesn't run businesses. Well it doesn't need workers on you don't need what is another Marxist idea. Why would you put a worker on your board? Does he know how to run the company. Is HE GONNA make create jobs? Or is he simply when the unions had their way with the car? Companies in Detroit. Not only did the car companies go down the drain but so to Detroit. Really workers do not know how to run a company that is the job of people who run companies. That's why they're called people who run companies. You can tell by the name. So now they're begging Bernie they're begging Bernie To resign Claire. Mccaskill a former senator Democrat senator she was just saying get out get out of the race of we have got clear you. I think the conversation is going to quickly turn to how. And when does Bernie Sanders Unite the Democratic Party? I predict that just like in Michigan and Mississippi and Missouri. We're GONNA see every county in Florida go for Joe Biden every county in Arizona go for Joe Biden and every county in Illinois Gopher Joe Biden. He's going to end up netting. A big number of delegates after tonight and so I think it is time she thinks is time. The entire Democrat Party. Thinks it's time. But who doesn't think it's what's his name. Bernie said he was reassessing his campaign but yesterday on CNN Alexandra. Ross who was a a surrogate from just as Democrats is the name of organization but basically Bernie Surrogate She goes on and says it's not gonNA happen but listen carefully to what she says. Because she's in a room. He's on a panel with Anderson Cooper and CNN chief political analyst. Gloria Borger and a couple of other Democrats to statement I think that Senator Sanders campaign is much more than just. A presidential campaign represents dozens of grassroots organizations. Thousands of activists and organizers Latinos. Young people millions of people that right now during this crisis Even before it felt like they were in a crisis right because here in America even before this pandemic it we have sixty percent of Americans. That can't afford an eight hundred dollar Emergency Bill if that happened. Tomorrow Bright We have small business owners right now in the midst of the pandemic. That aren't sure if they're going to have the support that they need. What does that mean? Moving forward I mean what that means. I think right but that means right now. Is that millennials. Just we want Donald Trump to be defeated too. I think there is nobody here that does not want Donald Trump to be defeated. And I think the question that I would add that I think Joe Biden as the pre you know what looks like to be the presumptive nominee who needs to focus on also unifying. The party is the fact that millennials are going through their second recession right now. So she says there's nobody here who doesn't want to defeat Donald Trump and nowhere does Anderson Cooper or Gloria Borger of CNN say We're kind of objective newsman. We should they let that pass because of course is obviously true. Play quickly Andrew. Cuomo Inter. Chris Cuomo interviewed his brother. The Governor of New York Andrew and this was their exchange. I called MOM. I called mom just before I came on this show way. She said I was her favorite. Do you never say good news is she said. You are second favorite second favorite son. We both know neither of us are mobs first or second favorite in the family. I can't believe you're lying on my audience. You've blown the credibility of the entire interview. I should have ended up. Second Favorite Song. Listen to very tricky. Throw in there after the first time you said it creates a Lotta doubt. Clarify me straight across the place. Stay straight across the plate. Stay strong stay for your people and I appreciate you being here. I love you brother. That's the problem with the press. You think somebody that CNN would notice eight now. I listen I opie that a chance to see some of the new show. We launched this week. Called all access live over daily. Wire Dot Com Ben Shapiro and journey boring kicked off. Monday evening He and Michael Knowles Jeremy. Michael Knowles followed up last night. We'll be doing episodes of the rest of this week at eight. Pm Eastern Five PM. Pacific. All access live is a lot more relaxed than our regular programs. Let's focus on bringing you news and information and more about sitting down with you at the end of a long workday especially in these troubled times. The show is actually intended for our all access members but in order to help us all feel a little less lonely. During this time we accelerated the launch. An open it up to all of our daily wire members for the time being so please let us know if you liked the show what you'd like to see more or less of remember we'll help you get through this and we will be stronger as a nation as a community when we do so if you're around eight. Pm Eastern Five PM Pacific tonight. Jonas on the all access live show over daily wire dot com to watch the live stream and join the chat. And you want to subscribe because it won't be free forever right because this will not last forever so right now go over daily wire dot com and use access code claimed to get ten percent off any daily wire membership plan. And let me tell you if you're not a member you are missing all the best stuff especially getting your questions in the mailbox so I can solve all your problems. Members GET ARTICLES AD free access to all of our live broadcasts and show library the full three hours of the Ben Shapiro. Show select bonus content the mailbox and more plus our new all access to your guests who into exclusive live online discussions with me with Ben Matt. Walsh Michael Knowles. I threw that in there. I know you don't care. But Plus Deli wire writers and special guests. And don't forget you'll also get the greatest of all beverage vessels the leftist tears. Tumbler so you can drink something. While you're using crowder's ashtray. All of that plus ten percent off when using Promo Code Clayton. Don't hesitate get yourself over to daily wire dot com but I learn how to spell Clayton. You're too smart to be acting this down talking to me when you say that the AM mailbag coming up mailbag all right from brody dear master of the known and Unknown Universe who makes everything look easy. Needless to say the corona virus has put many people including myself into a contemporary of state have been taking the opportunity to reflect deeply on my faith and values Christian good use of a crisis in this reflection. A question that I have struggled with for a long time resurfaced as God. Punish his people. I'm not a craze. Doom Day theorist always looking for the end times. I'm not Jonathan Edwards Center in the hands of an angry God believer but it's hard not to see this virus and think is this a sign from God or as got angry with the world. I've had some similar feelings in a more personal level times of struggle of extreme hurt within my family where it was hard not to think that God is angry with me and punishing me for my sins so I wanted to take this opportunity to turn for clarity since your answers are guaranteed one hundred percent. Correct thank you. For All you do for conservatism. And God bless my answers are guarantee one hundred percent correct and in this case I can say definitively know God does not punish the people in the way that you mean it is and I. You know how you know this. You know this because the innocent suffer okay. When you're only thinking about yourself you can. Your mind can get a little clouded but when you look and you see a sick child when you see children who never even get to live when you see the evil that people do people who've done nothing to them. You know that this is not a direct you did and that therefore God is punishing you. You're a sinful person and therefore God is punishing you. That's not the way it works. Even Jesus was asked about this. He passed a blind man and somebody said His disciple said Rabbi who sinned this man or his parents that he was born blind and Jesus said neither this man nor his parents sinned with. This happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him. So here's the thing right. God has created a world of consequences and free will okay now the when you hear people say there's no free will hear people say that. God doesn't care about the consequences the consequences random that is because they are doing what is essentially. Adamson and they think they're they're trying to think like God they're trying to understand the mind of God you can't understand the mind of God nor do you have the imagination that got has the creative power that God has to create a world in which every particle interlinks with every other particle so that many things can be true simultaneously that the mind of man cannot conceive as being true simultaneously. So it's a world that God has made consequences and a free will. The consequences are behaving certain ways. Things will probably go better for you right if you take care of yourself. If you exercise people always say oh Christians they just want to be good so they go to heaven. Well it's like saying you only you only want to exercise so you'll be in good shape right. There are consequences to what you do and you wanna live into those consequences. You don't want to be an alcoholic is going to ruin your life because there are consequences you don't want to abuse people because it's GonNa make them and you feel bad. There are consequences but there's also free will at the exact same time which means that the world is. GonNa look random to you. The free will it extends to nature nature has to look random in order for there to be free will okay in order for there to be free. Will things have to have a certain aspect of randomness to the people making choices? So there's going to be randomness and you have free will so you can do evil to the innocent so the world can make you ill though you don't deserve it. Illness can spread though you. Don't the people don't deserve it and you can do evil people. Those things are happening at the same time. So what's the answer? What how do you respond to that? The thing is to think like a human being. Don't try to think like God. Think like a human being in the question. You should be asking yourself in each situation whether it's good or bad whether it's fair or not fair is how do I behave? How do I react? How do I draw from this? The thing that God wants me to have in this situation because no matter who you are no matter. What's happening to you? God wants you to draw something out of that. Maybe a moment of nobility maybe a moment of wisdom maybe a moment of of understanding maybe simply displaying to others how one can behave in suffering. How do you remember? Jesus said he did this so that the works of God can be revealed. How do you reveal the glory of God and suffering? I'm not a pastor of theologians. I'm only telling you what my journey has been. What my journey of understanding has been how I understand the works of God but that is the thing we know because innocent the innocent suffer. This is not a direct punishment. We did something and therefore this happened. We noticed the result of the fact that we live in a world of consequences and the fact that we live in a world of free will so the Chinese had the option to spread the alarm earlier? And they didn't that's free will and we suffer for it. It's also a world of consequences where there's disease and diseases will spread so you're not being punished. This is not a punishment on God but but you have to look at thing as think how do I reveal the glory of God? My person by going through this crisis in the best way possible and not maybe becoming like a cranky old fuss budget yelling at everybody around me from Michael. Hello Andrew Lord of the Cleveland. Unknown were of air products. Never Mind my question Concerns Libertarians. And they're supposed neutrality. Most Libertarians I know are of the socially liberal fiscal conservative which is to say pro Second Amendment Less Progressive Tax Rate Democrats most rail against trump and have nothing to say against the Democrats of the left. Where do you think libertarianism clashes with conservatism? And which do you think is better for a country? It's a really good question natural libertarian. But obviously libertarianism has its limits so I frequently hear Libertarians. Say Well if you're a libertarian. Why if you want small government. Why do you want them to outlaw abortion because I think the government is allowed to protect people from other people right? It's allowed to protect me from you. Killing me and so the baby is of even an unborn. Baby is a human being so it can protect that unborn child that the weakest person in the room small person the person with the least voice. The thing about libertarianism is it depends upon the trust of your neighbor. It's okay it's fine to say yet you. If you wanna live in some crazy you know sexual relationship. It's nothing to me but if everybody's doing that women are going to suffer if you don't have monogamy throughout your culture women are going to suffer. There has never been a culture with polygamy where women were not belittled and enslaved never happens. It never happens zero times. Okay so what you want is a culture where people behave well and then you can win then when you have the eccentric. The person who does something odd. The person who behaves in a weird way you can say. I'm a libertarian. Let them go so the problem we have now is. We have so lost our way. We've so lost our moral way that we are abusing children. In plain sight we are recommending. The children be butchered. Because they go through phase where maybe they think they're not sure about their gender. We're having Transvestite children's hour so children become confused about gender when they don't have to be. We're abusing children in plain sight. That's not right and that has to be stopped and the government does have a right to stop it but it does infringe on libertarian freedoms. And it's just a shame because if people behave in a good way if people agree to certain rules of the road people have virtue and they act with virtue. Then you don't need a government come down on people virtuous important so the difference between Libertarian and Conservative and Conservatives knows that at some point at some point virtue has to be inculcated or enforce and that's just the way that that works so it's important for people to live in a virtuous life. We're talking about this at the opening of the show that we're responsible for each other if you don't live according to the virtues if you don't stop littering. Stop Stealing Stop Writing Graffiti. Then ultimately the government has to come down on everybody and make more restrictive laws all right from David Hale the Lord of the melting multi-diverse and slayer of eased culture war. Question a lot of the time Hollywood's agenda is easy to see something. I think you satirized quite well. In the movie premiere seen in Empire of lies. Everyone should read. Parv lies terrific now but other times the messages are slipped in stealthily and otherwise innocuous entertainment many Disney films spring to mind them hard-pressed to decide which is more influential considering. The blatant stuff is just so prolific and loud. I was wondering your opinion. Well my opinion is that no one work or no one message or no one piece of propaganda really changes everything In a in a terrible way can happen. There can be Shows or movies or books like uncle. Tom's cabin that I send a message out to people that people are ready to receive and that ignites a a sort of movement and that can happen but mostly what I think happens is certain assumptions are brooded about by a single a an entertainment industry that is run and monopolized by one side. So again and again. You're going to see movies in which motherhood is restrictive and men or abusive and businessmen are evil and the environment is under threat. And you're going to see it again and again until it just becomes a cloud of knowing around you you just know. Things are true. That may not be true. That may be the opposite of the truth. I mean we saw them try to do this during the war on terror. This is how I I started speaking out in a big way about conservatives and when they started to make these anti American movies about the war on terror and the all bombed but they kept making them so you think why. Why do you keep making them all? Part of his virtue signaling. Part of it is that they want to show everybody. What a great people they are. So they'll get more jobs And women will sleep with them and the rest of this that you get in Hollywood. And they'll get the awards prestige but part of it is because they want to create a cloud of assumptions. A cloud of is what they call the narrative they want to create a narrative where you just assume things are true that the American military is bad. I mean that was one of the messages that was an every single one of these films. They were either bad or they were stupid. The military was stupid being manipulated by Evil Republicans. So it's really this cloud of of information that the entertainment industry seeks to create. And that's one of the reasons you know we we stand up against them but it's also one of the reasons that we should be fighting back and creating clouds of our own and clouds of different assumptions and make sure that they hear other voices Coming to them that that say different things and tell them that. No not everything that you're being told to assume is true. All right hello one more. Hello Great and wonderful. I'll be bald mischief the multi-diverse I've been married for twelve years. My wife and I have been my wife and I have three wonderful children. We have a wonderful life. We have always tried to live lives that God wants us to. However in the past few months it feels like we've grown somewhat apart not in a way that we want to divorce or separate which is against religion but my question is are periods of time lately. Some normal in a marriage will pass. And we'll we'll it happen again. Don't get me wrong. We both still love each other with all our hearts. We know that God ordains this marriage and that we are perfect for each other since you have been married since God created the world. That's true figure. You would have some excellent insight into this. Thank you for any insight you can offer you feel that you've grown somewhat apart. All right doesn't matter whether it's normal or not normal in some marriages. It may not be normal and others doesn't matter it's happening to you and it's happening for a reason so what you have to do now. Is You have to find time. You have three kids. They must be young. Since you've only been married twelve years. I know you have three kids. You gotta find time to sit down and talk about it and find out what's going on. Something is going on okay. It's not a tragedy is not going to end your marriage it will pass but it will pass because you get together and talk about it. The marriage is yours to defend in this together. You and your wife are in this together. Marriages yours to defend you. Defend it by talking it out and finding what's going on. Maybe there's been an incident that you didn't pay attention to maybe. The children are taking up so much of your time. You haven't got time for each other Maybe you're worried about something and you're not telling your partner about it you know. Never leave your partner behind. You gotTA figure it out yourself so sit down talk about. Don't let it pass. Don't let it just go away and hope that things get better. Talk to your wife and it doesn't have to. It's not like you talk to your wife one time. And then it's all solved. Keep the lines of communication open. Find out what's happening because something's happening. I wish I could go on to answer more questions but we'll do it again next week. I gotTa Stop Right there. I'm Andrew Klavan. This is the Andrew Klavan. Show will see you tomorrow if you enjoyed this episode. Don't forget to subscribe and if you want to help spread the word gives us a five star review. Also tell your friends to subscribe to were available on Apple podcasts. On spotify wherever you listen to podcasts. Also be sure to check out the other daily wire podcasts. Including the Ben Shapiro. Show Matt Wall. Show and the Michael Knowles show. Thanks for listening. The Andrew Klavan show is produced by Robert Stirling and directed by Mike joyner executive producer. Jeremy Boring Technical Producer Austin Stevens and our supervising producer. His Mathis Glover Assistant Director Pavel Wisneski edited by Adam scientists audio mixed by Robin Henderson. Hair and makeup is by Jessica. Olvera animations are by Cynthia and Gulu production assistants can waters and Ryan Love. The Andrew. Klavan show is the daily wire production copyright daily wire twenty twenty as the US death toll from the Wu. Flu Hits One hundred. Some experts are wondering whether grinding the global economy to a halt. Might have been something of an overreaction. We examine the scientific data and the philosophical reasons. Why the Left? Never lets a crisis. Go to waste then. President trump officially secures the Republican nomination for President and Joe Biden is set to sail to his own party's nomination if he can only remember who and where he is all that more. Check it out on the Michael Knowles show.

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Toys & Tech of The Trade 2020 Holiday Gift Guide

RAGE Works Network-All Shows

1:08:03 hr | 5 months ago

Toys & Tech of The Trade 2020 Holiday Gift Guide

"What's going on folks. Thanks for hitting that download button and checking out a brand new episode of toys and tech of the trade. Your one stop shop for toys tech and talk with some assembly required. I'm your host rich and if this is your first time checking out an episode first of all. Welcome second a bit about what we do here. Toys and tech of the trade is an interview series where we sit down with content creators entrepreneurs and awesome folks that are on our radar and discuss the gadgets the gear and the tech that they used to create their content run their business and overall be more productive when it comes to the toys aspect of the show. We like to embrace that in a more broad sense and not relegated to just talking about action figures funchal pops or things of that nature. You'd be surprised what people consider toys whether it's something as simple as collecting beanie babies to something as complex as exotic cars or knives or guitar picks. Everyone has their own definition of toys here. And we embrace that wholeheartedly. Now would that out of the way. Let's get into some housekeeping and into this week's show so first off it's been a couple of weeks since we did an episode and for those of you that checked out the november update and heard a little bit about that just to update everyone who may have either not heard it or of this. Is your first time checking out an episode Couple of weeks back October twenty first My grandmother ended up having a stroke while driving which was just pretty scary She in the car with my sister who has autism which is a separate story for a separate podcast in a separate show but nonetheless she ended up Having a stroke while she was driving pretty close to home As far as i know she got into a little bit of a fender bender. She doesn't remember much awesome. Good samaritans Move their car to side of the road and strangely enough. My grandmother walked home with my sister. like i said. She wasn't very far from the house. Walked home Came into the house and we have A homemade that helps with my sister and said hey listen you wanna take a look at your grandmother. She doesn't look too good Needless to say she didn't She was having a stroke ended up having her in the hospital. Get calling an ambulance. She went into the hospital. Four roughly nine days almost ten days In varying types of icu's got moved to rehabilitation and did rehab until earlier in a mid november and has been home ever since so That through a lot of Different monkey wrenches into how things are here in my home. nonetheless Things are starting to get to some semblance of normalcy. And you know we got through thanksgiving and everything and Lots to be thankful for Sadly i remain unemployed. Which is something. I'm not thankful for but nonetheless It was a blessing in disguise. Because they'll let me be here To assist my family with everything going on be a resource for my grandmother situation and help that along and fine tune and strategize. What is going to be next For toys and tackle trade. So usually i release our toys and tech of the trade holiday gift guide very early in the month and i decided to many people and too many things or sprinting. To the finish of two thousand twenty were jumping from one holiday to the other. Not letting people marinate and enjoy. Whether it's halloween thanksgiving everybody's jumping right into christmas. And you know looking at the Remaining amount of time on the calendar as just the end of a year that has had. You know it's fair amount of challenges for many of us. But for me what i wanted to do was i wanted to actually do the podcast and launched the gift guide when it was the quote unquote start of the holiday season witches. After thanksgiving as such. I had originally recorded this show This portion of the gift guide. Well before thanksgiving after thinking about it. And kind of mulling it over for a bit. I decided you know what. I'd rather scrap it and record it after thanksgiving just to really get into the quote unquote holiday season and Again many of us are doing our shopping from home Some people aren't even doing that because they're The economics of their personal life are allowing them to have a quote unquote The usual holiday season. I want to respect that. Because there's a lot of people that just aren't doing great financially. And as such. I wanted to put this out there and give people resources but give you resources not only for those that are in your life that are creators and entrepreneurs that you wanna buy gifts for but you know what giving gifts to yourself to help you be a better creator. A better podcast. Her a better business person. If you're trying to launch a business. I know a lot of people are in the midst of launching businesses amidst this pandemic either. Because they know that this is the time or because they're just motivated because their home and they need things to do but you'd be surprised so unlike gift guides from previous years. We're going to try and give you not only some recommendations on tools and resources that you can get yourself or loved ones. But i also want to kind of break things up and dig a little deeper into the quote toy side of things and give you folks just some things to take your mind off. What's going on Maybe your loved ones or a whoever that needs that little bit of disconnect to kind of take the edge off because that's kind of where many of us are right now. A lot of us are hoping to just you know make it through or survive twenty twenty instead of just taking a little bit of a fortune cookie wisdom here and enjoying what we got because there's people that are far worse off than we are so with that said in that little bit of You know hallmark messaging of the way. I'd like to jump into the twenty twenty holiday gift guide and hopefully give each and every one of you something that you can either get yourself or get your Aspiring entrepreneur podcast content creator. That can help them on their journey. And like i said we get to the toy section. We're going to have a lot of cool stuff that we're gonna recommend. some of. It is stuff that may be on your radar. Some of it may not be but nonetheless. Let's get to it and kick off the twenty twenty toys and tackle the trade holiday gift guide so in the midst of my my brief hiatus. A lot of folks. I've either consulted on or help them launch their podcasts. And a lot of people doing podcasts about things they're into passion projects but i also know a lot of people that are looking into. Well that are looking to do more interview based off talk to other people that are either experiencing similar things that they are or are just in similar fields that they are and the one thing that a lot of people have asked me is you know how do i get good at interviewing. How do i get good at at just engaging with my guests and first thing i tell people is Think of people whose interviews you've watched that you've enjoyed Rewatch them look at the host. Look at the interviewer. See what they're doing see how they're engaging with their guests. What questions they're asking how they're how they're structuring. The interview is it more conversational. Is it more the guests just being allowed to speak and then the interview were popping in and just you know navigating the interview in a certain direction. Everyone has their own interview style. But the one thing i tell people is start there. Start with the people who you're into start with interviews you've enjoyed Listen to other. Podcasters listened to other podcasts. That conduct interviews. Obviously you know. I'm gonna show myself. Because i i think i do a pretty decent job but the thing about it is used that i draw inspiration from there but along the way there's always tools and tactics and tips that can help and one of the things that was on my radar quite a bit. Thanks to the cookies and our browsers recommending things was pod decks. Now you're probably asking yourself. What the hell is that. So pod dex is a set of cards that have interview questions that you can use for not only your interviews but for different aspects of an interview. If you're talking entrepreneurship there's a deck with entrepreneurial questions there's icebreaker questions there's different Fun questions thought provoking questions. That can help you not only break the ice but can also help make the interview just unique and different now of course let me preface and this goes back to being elementary school. Don't just read a question off a card. Make the question your own. Make it part of your conversational style. Make it part of what you do and then take that and apply it to your podcast. You're cast whatever You're doing where you're engaging with guest because the hardest part obviously besides growing your podcast and promoting your podcast is getting guests and making sure that you're not only getting them but making them feel comfortable making them feel welcome and making them want to come back because it's very easy to say. Hey i'm going to do a quick. Qa and post questions or maybe on twitter and get questions from your audience but again at the end of the day. It's you and your guests and you need to go and really fine tune that because that guest experience can translate to them recommending you to other guests. Hey i stopped on this podcast. so-and-so asks me some great questions a lot of fun stuff a lot of different stuff. Not the usual cookie cutter stuff and pod. Dex was surprisingly solid travis. The creator of pod dex has really not only taken pod decks and made it essential as a in the toolkit of podcast or but he continues to innovate and keep it fresh and keep it awesome so much so that now you can get pod decks as an app on your iowa's or android device so you can get all the different decks right on your device and you can take those questions and this. The the dope is part of of the pod decks app. You can build your own deck so you can go into. Let's say icebreaker questions you can go into the entrepreneurial deck you can go into You know if then scenarios just a bunch of different things that will let you just up your anti and be a better interviewer Like i said pod decks is awesome. Whether you wanna get something analog and just have the deck of cards on you to going the digital route and it's it's a paid up but let me tell you i've i bought the app on ios. When travis announced it and i went through it i was just like. Let me see what it's all about you know what's the what's the big deal. It might make me a better interviewer but it might give me a couple of questions that i've never thought of asking and man was blown away by the amount of different questions. Different things that that travis thought of for these different decks like i said there's a deck for every situation and i initially. I was going to do a whole big episode. Just dedicated pod decks and i may even try to get travis on a future episode but if you are looking to be a better interviewer you can like i said. Watch a bunch of interviews. Read a bunch of books but give products shot For black friday he was actually doing the decks for like i think it was ten bucks a deck and again the investment. That may give you hours and hours of content for your podcast or your blogger. Your vid cast. Whatever it is that you're doing in terms of engaging with another human being. I'm all ford so is The number one recommendation for our twenty twenty holiday gift guide if you are a podcast or and a creator right sticking with the are content creators in our podcasters one of the big things that has come up often especially now that so many people are on zoom and doing skype and goto meeting and microsoft teams. Whatever it is is a microphone. Yes having a decent camera for all of this is good but a microphone is he. And there's a couple of recommendations that i've always said or my tried and true recommendations such as the audio technica a tr twenty one hundred which is a great mike you can pick it up for sometimes fifty sixty bucks and it's easy to recommend that but i've been working over the last few years with a lot of road stuff You know we have a road. Cast pro here in the rage work studio. I'm using i rode Road caster mike The thing that got me recently was their new quote unquote entry level. Mike which is the road pod mike. It's a hundred bucks but man. Does it stand shoulder to shoulder with some of the hitters. That are out there. I'm talking about you know. Like i said the atari twenty one hundred some of the more expensive two hundred two hundred and fifty. Three hundred dollar mikes The road pod. Mike definitely stands on. Its own so much so that actually picked up An extra an extra pair to have here in studio just so i can keep the the road consistent sound throughout any of my broadcast plus now that i'm actually not leasing out my home studio but letting it be used by some of our other hosts i'd like to keep that consistent sound and just having you know the road cast are pro some road. Mike's it definitely has made a difference in terms of sound if i needed to give secondary recommendation. It's a brand new one that just launched from the folks at sure the shore. Mvp seven When it comes to podcast one of the easiest recommendations is the shore. Sm seven be. It's one that has been used in countless podcast countless radio shows and it's great but the mvp seven Has something much like the twenty one hundred which is usb plug in capabilities. Plus xlr and the craziest thing is you can use both of them. Simultaneously it's Again easier on the pockets. And some of the the bigger. Mike's but it again really well. It has a companion app that you can use with it but it has more importantly than all of that great sound quality. If you love the sound of the sm seven be the shore mvp. Seven may be another one to consider. And i'm only sharing it because i wanted to. Just give another alternative. So the road pod mike. Now i mentioned the road caster pro. I gotta tell you you don't wanna get into gear acquisition syndrome. You don't wanna get gas. Don't want it. You don't need the big five hundred dollar mixer you don't need the you know the crazy audio interface. You don't need any of it. You can do a podcast with a usb. Mike you can do all of that with easy cheap tools. It's all about technique and just being comfortable in your own skin. And as you get better then you can increase Different facets of your your quality whether it's you know a better microphone better headphones Noise cancellation in your space. Whatever it is but yes the road. Castro is phenomenal. I love it eliminated. I had a bunch of equipment here in my office. I had a noise gate. I had you know headphones. Splitter bunch of i had a separate thing that i plugged in for sound effects the road cast pro eliminated all of that. You get four xlr channels. You got what i like to say to way. Usb you can connect your phone so you can do interviews right through your phone into the mixer and record into the mixer and it even has bluetooth as well. Which i've used for some of the calls that i've done where i don't want to wear my airpods or something like that. I'll just pair my phone to the mixer and use the road. Mike that i currently have plugged in and on top of that. And this is one thing i really really enjoy. I've gone and done instagram. Live and some of the other stuff with the phone Serving as the video portion but the audio being provided by my mic through my road caster pro. So if you're gonna do instagram. Live things like that. You want upped the ante a little bit you want to increase the quality of your podcast or videos etcetera the road. Caster pro is great. It's a little bit pricey like i said. But if you're really into upping the ante of your product. I definitely can say that the road cast pro is great but like i like. I said you don't necessarily have to go that route as well. Zoom actually dropped a really awesome piece called the pod. Track p four not only. Is it a dedicated podcast recorder but it comes from a reputable company which is zoom. You can plug in up to four x alarms and record in multi-track plus there's independent headphone control for each participant and you can connect to your smartphone. Your computer your tablet to record remote calls. You can use it as a usb audio interface and like i said as a portable recorder it even has little sound pads for you to play music and effects during your shows and most important. It's a little easier on the pocket coming in at two hundred bucks I love zoom stop. We have a zoom h. Six here that i use as a secondary recorder in addition to recording into the road caster pro. And you're probably saying to yourself but rich you know. Why do i need secondary recorder if the road cast a pro is my main recording. Or if i'm recording into my pc or my laptop while the answer is simple you can never ever never ever ever have enough backups. Whether you you get a blue screen of death on your computer whether the power goes out in your house whatever. The case may be a secondary recorder. That is either usb powered with a usb battery backup or just regular Aa or aaa. Batteries is a godsend on top of that. You can grab something like the h six or even some of the lower tier stuff and take it with you if you wanted to record on the go if you wanted to grab a man on the street woman on the street interviews for your podcast or whatever content. You're creating again. Don't relegated to just the stuff that you're having at you know at arm's reach when you're recording at home but if you want to record on the go don't wanna lug around a mixture some of this other stuff like i said i used zoom h six before that i use the h four before even that i use the The i zoom the little stick recorder. I believe it's the h. One but i gotta tell you this. Zoom pod tracked p four is a tremendous piece of kit for such a low low price point so definitely a recommendation. I wanted to throw out there for those of you. That are enduring sticker shock with a road caster pro next. Obviously we've talked a lot about audio. I wanna talk about video. But i also wanna talk about photography and you know image capturing in general whether you're a podcast or whether you're a a youtuber whether you're an aspiring photographer hell whether you're someone that wants to had just take better pictures of their kids or their pets a good camera. Obviously the best cameras one you have on you at all times which if you have Some some of the latest smartphones. That are out. You're probably going to have a great camera but sometimes you don't wanna just leave it all to your phone for whatever reason so i wanna recommend a couple of different image capture devices that can serve more than one purpose When it comes to cameras. I'm a sony shooter. But that doesn't necessarily mean you need to be a sony shooter. I like the sony. A sixty four hundred. It's currently what we shoot with here. Doesn't have a recording limit. shoots four k Can use a bunch of different amount lenses. It's it's nice. It's not too expensive and it does the job and you can even use it as a webcam either with sony's Recently released an update. That lets you use your your mirrorless camera as a webcam or you can even run the age. The am i into something. Like a cam link or an hdmi capture card and use it that way. So you can get really crisp beautiful pictures whether you're on a zoom call or skype or you're recording talking head videos. Whatever the case may be love. The sony a sixty four hundred and even if you get it with a kit lens which is the sixteen to fifty the small lens. It definitely does the job. Sure you can spend a little more money and get some nice glass. And there's definitely glass that. I can recommend until i'm blue in the face but the sony a sixty four hundred as a whole checks off a lot of boxes if you're looking to up your image capture game whether like i said it's taking pictures of your loved ones now for the holidays You know improving your picture quality for your zoom calls or just if you're doing youtube or even product photography just a good camera speaks volumes and the best part is and people fall into this trap all the time by the camera spend more money on lenses chore. The sixty four hundred is great. But there's plenty of you can go sixty one hundred. You can go a little bit more. It's all about budget. I liked the sixty four hundred. I think it's awesome. It's taken amazing pictures of i very very active two year old toddler which is great. So you fast. Action photography is awesome and just a ton of great product photos that we use for rage works. And we'll even some of the youtube videos that we've taken lately have all been done with the a sixty four hundred now if you love canon or you want something a little cheaper the cannon m fifty is a massive massive value it's a cannons mirrorless and it is incredibly underrated A lot of people complain because it crops the image. If you shoot and four k let me tell you if you're just taking some photos some videos for youtube channel the cannon m fifty does the job it's not that expensive you can probably pick it up for less than five hundred dollars b. n. h. Is your friends. Sometimes they have open box. The you can even get refurbish from cannon and save a ton of money and the lenses aren't expensive plus you can get an adapter and use regular cannon glass as well so again. Ace sony a sixty four hundred cannon. M fifty are both phenomenal. Now if you want to go and be a little bit more artistic with your videos you know a lot of people are going to recommend kimble's you can get different kimble's whether it's to hold your phone i personally am more partial to the osmo pocket. Kimble's they're really nice. You can capture some great video slow. And it's all stabilized and really really nice. Osmo actually came out with their new osmo pocket to which they have a creator. Kit it will run you five hundred bucks but man the amount of stuff you get in there you gotta tripod you get a wireless microphone so you don't have to worry about You know audio quality you can just. You can take microphone. That it comes with clipper right to your lapel and set your osmo pocket on a table. haven't follow. Focus your face and you're off to the races if you wanna create talking head videos or if you wanna do voice over while you're recording travel blogs or anything that you want to just give a little extra Voice to when it comes to your storytelling. The osmo pocket creator bundle is a no brainer. Like i said it's going to run you five hundred bucks. You don't need it. But i really think that for the holidays it's great it's very small. You can throw it in your pocket if you want to run around and capture the holiday lights with your kids and don't want to worry about pulling out your phone or taking your big camera with you. The osmo pocket is clutch. I definitely definitely endorse it. Now when it comes to multifaceted devices one of the biggest things that has been huge for me in twenty twenty has been my ipad pro mostly because with the apple pencil. I can just write on it take notes etc. Obviously if you have something like the samsung note you can laugh at me in samsung but as a as a previous note owner and i do miss i gotta say that the ipad pro is a welcome substitute but you can also get You don't have to get a pro series ipad if you need to use the pencil I believe it's the latest ipad air. That can use the apple pencil as well. I'll make sure to include that in the show notes for this episode. Just for some clarity. But i love the ipad air but any tablet will do the job if you wanna use a to consume content. Whether it's videos or books. I mean my ipad air. Excuse me my ipad pro gets a lot of time more so re with me reading than anything else. I have the kindle app on there. And i just have all. My books are read a lot of comics. I've been doing a lot of catching up on a lot of stories as of late via the comics g service and also marvels Service as well so definitely a great piece to have plus if you get something like pod dex which i mentioned earlier. You can download the app right into your ipad. Pull up the questions. Add that to your workflow and it just it's a it's a great piece of tack. I mean you know. Some people have a love hate relationship with apple but the ipad is it has never let me down. I'm not gonna complain. And i definitely can't Not recommend it because it definitely does the job. Now we've talked about audio. We've talked about video. We've talked about photos years something. That was a big rookie mistake on my part and i want to put this out there for a entrepreneurs content creators and it is collecting emails. Let me tell you. Collecting emails was a rookie move. That i dropped the ball on. And even now i'm still trying to make it make it up but it's nowhere near where it should have been had. I started earlier. And i'll tell you why because if you engage with your audience on instagram primarily. An instagram goes away tomorrow. How are you going to reach out to those people. If twitter goes away same thing facebook youtube et cetera et cetera. The one thing that is a constant is email people still access it. People still use it. People still open emails. I mean i get sometimes five hundred emails a day out of five hundred. I still i can at least say that i open at least one hundred fifty to two hundred of those emails because their actual pertinent things that i've signed up for whether it's newsletters or just regular correspondence but e mail is clutch now obviously collecting emails. All of that stuff. There's a bunch of different services out there. But i gotta give a huge shot to the folks at app. Sumo noah kagan everybody over there. They came out with a product which is said fox. And you can get a lifetime. service with I believe it's forty nine ninety nine and let you just collect the and sand a ridiculous amount of emails. It's a small investment but it's clutch you don't have to. It doesn't have a steep learning curve. You can create an email in just a few minutes. You can launch a campaign very quickly. You can tie it to your blog or your website so that when you post new content it actually creates like a like an email almost like customizable template that you can send out with your latest posts etc and i'm actually using san fox. Not only on. The rage works network website but also on the main rage worksite to collect the emails and engage with our readers and our podcast network listeners. Whether it's this podcast. Or any of our others. And i gotta say send fox's great Male chimp is also good. But i like the simplicity of sen fox and this is an instance in my personal opinion. Where i feel less is more sure you can create this big fancy splashy looking email but at the end of the day people are gonna open an email and they want and they're gonna skim through it and if it gives them value they'll really read it and if it doesn't right to the junk file and it's outta here so if you wanna just make sure that your content and your message is front and center. I gotta recommend send fox. They are fan tastic. I really really like what they're doing. Like i said easy on the pockets and more importantly email is still viable. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It really is still viable next thing. We all have our cameras and our Setups in different parts of our home for zoom calls. And you're probably saying to yourself man you know my people can see my bathroom. More people can see my kids. People can see my tv etc. You want a little bit more clarity and professionalism and of course it's easy for me to go and recommend something like a green screen. It's you'd probably say. Why would i need that. Well if you wanna just hide your bookshelf or you're weird. You know chachi figurines that are in the background of all your zoom calls if you wanna keep yourself front and center. A green screen will get the job done now. There's a couple of different options you can go with. You can get us simple pop up screen that you can actually mount on the back of your chair. Which is pretty funny. It's it's i wanna say it's about eighty bucks. I'm gonna include it because it's a good low budget option. That you can just clamp right on the back of on your chair back and it's almost like a green screen halo that goes behind you and you can just ohi your background accordingly. But i do like the al gado green screen it's collapsible even though they have also a wall mounted version but it's a collapsible green screen. Put it right behind your chair and pull it up in one step. Boom you got the green screen right behind you. You can chroma key yourself out. I mean excuse me you chroma key your background. So that's just you know you on a transparent background on your coal. You can have a little fun with it and drop things in there. You know the office space background or you know the office or whatever it is. You can have a lot of fun with the green screen. If you're doing product photography you can you know. Put nice backdrops behind your photos just to spice things up a bit. Hell you can even take it and turn it into a side hustle. And you're probably like what the hell are you talking about. So let's say you take your collapsible green screen and your inspiring photographer and you want to go to. Let's say your local unemployment office and you wanna tell people. Hey i'm gonna offer head shots for your lengthen profiles for whatever fifty bucks twenty five bucks. Whatever it is all you gotta do. Is you take your collapsible green screen. Pull it up. Maybe you have the person stand. Maybe bring a stool or a foldable chair. If you want have them sit. Take a photo. Send it to them tax to them. Whatever the case is boom. You get a nice clean crisp photo that you can change the background. Put something behind if you wish and again. Not too crazy now. The al gado green screens going to run you about one hundred and sixty bucks said if you want something a little bit more low key. I'm going to give you the green screen. That you can clamp to the back of your chair. It's gonna run you between seventy five and eighty five dollars. I'm gonna put a couple of different links in there to give you guys You folks some options because again. This is what we're all about options high-cost low-cost but value none the less so definitely want to put that out that like i said side also and even side-hustle such a such a weird term to use. Just if you're hustling if you're trying to do things to raise money whether like. I said product photography headshots. A green screen definitely will pay for it self now l. Gatos been running rampant with my wallet as of late. They've been putting out a lot of great products You know besides their green screen. Which i use i use the data stream dak which at a glance you would think. All streamers can use that. But i've mentioned that before in previous gift guides i'm gonna mention it here. The audio stream deck is more than just something to start your your twitch stream and put your little backdrops etc. They're so much more you can do. You can use it to launch applications. You can use it to You know activate certain facets of your computer. I just recently picked up some el gato lights. Because i want to try and really start taking twitch a little bit more seriously. I can use the stream deck to control that. I can even use the stream. Deck to launch the hindenburg journalists. Which is what. I use as my podcast editor of choice. There's so many things you could do it. The stream deck and i really really appreciate it. Alga has just been knocking home. Runs out of a park from start to finish. It actually came out with these really cool Arms that you clamp to your desk so if you want to you know. Put your camera on arm and put it behind your monitor. They offer that but what. I'm using the llegado arms for is to do overhead shots When i'm doing a product on boxing's for youtube definitely give us a follow on. Our rage works youtube channel. If you haven't we're going to be doing more action figure stuff. And i'm trying to minimize the things in my studio number one because i have a very active toddler that likes to touch things but number two. I don't want things that can hurt. Her and i was originally using a glide gear overhead frame. It's basically it looks almost like an ally half h that you put on your desk. It has a little bracket in the middle. You connect your camera. And it's great for overhead shots but it's a big piece of hardware it's cumbersome and on more than one occasion that i've taken off my desk i tripped into it My daughters kind of fallen against it. So these algata arms have been t- they're going to run you. I believe it's fifty bucks for the smaller for the standard size arm and you can put a bunch of different attachments to it. It has a thread for you to screw on your camera easily but you can also attach extensions make it longer make it stretch out like an l. etc and again not too crazy not too expensive. Of course you can do the same thing with tripod. That has a center column. That folds over you can also do it with a c. Stand and you know. I don't know what people space situations are. But anything you can clamp to a desk and put on and take off is always good so the al gado arms. I'm gonna put them in the show notes for this episode. They are massive. They really have been great next up. I know some of you are still out there traveling whether whether it's right or wrong i'm not going to get into the politics of traveling for the holidays or traveling in general but one thing i do wanna say is that. Sometimes you don't want to listen to your ipod or your iphone or even your tablet. Sometimes you just want to veg out and watch the in flight movie but maybe you don't want to buy the cheapo headphones that the airline is giving you so something that saved my but quite often. When i was traveling for my day job was the airfli- it was put by a company called twelve south. And basically you plug it right into the headphone jack of the inflight. You know on the plane that you're on and it will allow you to pair your bluetooth headphones. Whether it's your airpods or anything else you can pair it. Right with the airfli- listen to the in-flight entertainment nice easy. You don't gotta get their quartered headphones or anything. You can just use your favorites plugging in. It's a simple device that runs at ninety nine. I've even seen deals with it being substantially cheaper but boy was it a massive massive assist In those instances when i was flying down to atlanta where my home office was at the time. And i didn't want to buy the in flight headphones. For whatever reason because i had a perfectly great set of airpods and i even had a set of beata sport beat headphones at the time that were really really go to when i was traveling just because they had better noise cancellation than the air. The first gen. Airpods which i still stand by the airpods are great but they would slip out of my ears often so that brings me to the next thing good. Headphones good headphones will make or break your editing. They'll make or break your youtube of viewing though maker break. Your zoom calls. Good headphones are key. Now it's easy for me to go and tell you. Hey you can get this expensive set of headphones but audio technica makes i. I use the m fifty headphones here in the studio. And they're really good but they also do The m forties which are phenomenal. I actually have some m forties here in the office for guests to go at the pod. Mike's and they are the perfect mix of great sound quality and solid value for your wallet. So i'm going to make sure to include both sets of headphones as well. It like i said i like airpods for when i'm out and about if you have an iowa device i could easily recommend them but i'm not an i'll tell you why everyone's ear canal is different. And a lotta people you know the airpods will slip out of your ears. But i gotta tell you. The the beats pro sport headphones. Even though they're pushed for sport headphones they are outstanding. They have you know rechargeable case and they have the little hook that hook behind your ear. You get that beats quality sound and yeah. There are a little bit more expensive but like i said you don't gotta worry about my ear canal too big ear canals through small. The airpods pro tips fit don't fit etc the I really like what beats brings to the table with the beach pro- They actually also came out with a fifty dollar headset. Which was the band aid for when they removed the headphones out of new. Iphones which you know. That's a separate conversation for a separate show. And i tried them. They're not bad. But like i said for a couple of bucks more you can get some pretty decent bluetooth headphones from any other manufacturer. That are that's out there. I'm not gonna sit here and just you know. Say that apple's the best with the stuff yeah. They have a lot of great products. But you can get similar results with cheaper products. But like i said i like the airpods us the airpods pro for most of my other stuff but the beats the beats get more usage because they just stay in my ears. Better the airpods pro. I do like for the noise. Cancelling the noise cancelling is no joke. I will say that all right. So i think that's a great way to wrap up our tech side of things. Now let's switch it up and let's talk about some toys and some things to help you. Just lighten up your holiday season. So let's switch gears and jump into some toys r. right so it wouldn't be toys and tech of the trade without some toy talk. So what are the toys that are on my radar for this holiday season. So it's very easy. Like i always say to just give real toy recommendations but like i said everyone's definition of toys is different so i want to give a couple of different things out that some of you may find useful. Some of you may gift to your loved ones. But i gotta tell you they pay for themselves and one of the first ones is the. It's pretty much any device that can make your home a smart home. Sure there's alexa. There's google like recommend a of them and they're all great. But i gotta tell you the two that i that i use in my home are like i said alexa. In any of the nest google devices. They are great. They have a low barrier of entry. You can get them as cheap as twenty bucks and you would say to yourself. All why do i need that. it's always listening etc. There's a bunch of different options. You can enable. You can turn off the microphones when you don't wanna use it etc. But i gotta tell you they have been great from something as simple as play you know nursery rhymes from my kid. Which again something you can do with your phone but you can use a smart device. You can use that as an intercom system in your home. That has actually been the biggest benefit With my grandmother home. Now we put a A google home downstairs and you can intercom through the house and you can just say hey broadcast and it will send out a little chirp through the house for something like hey. Can someone come downstairs. Or i've used it to just let people in my house no that. Dinner's ready so i don't have to yell. If the baby sleeping. So lot of different things amazon does the same with alexa. You can do stuff you can even use the alexa app on your phone and just call any of the alexa devices in your house for the same thing. Hey dinner's ready. Hey can you come downstairs etc The the google ones though any of the ones which screens are great because we use nest Doorbells and cameras in my home and especially for the holiday season man porch pirates out there. And i gotta tell you being able to see the amazon delivery person clearly not ringing my bell and throwing the packages on there just gives me that extra peace of mind for me to walk up to the door and grab my packages before someone else does and again. There's different smart devices. You can use a bunch of different ones. But i gotta say it's a matter of personal preference. I use both in my home but either one of them do the job. Like i said you can start with something small like a small alexa speaker. You can get them for sometimes. Twenty bucks thirty bucks. They are massive from something as simple as asking the weather to schedule this or call someone etc and i of course if if you're an apple user homepods etc but that stuff is expensive. It really is the homepods pod. Many the big home pod. It's great if you wanna use like syria and all that stuff. But i'm being honest. We want low barrier eventually and stuff that easily works to compliment that smart plugs whether they're amazon spark plugs. The casa smart plugs are really good. Smart plugs are a godsend. You can again pair them with your smart home device of choice. And in this case i'm gonna use a something so silly but it works Put a smart plug in. My living room plugged christmas tree into it. I can say you know. Hey turn on the christmas tree etc and you know if you wanna show a two year olds a magic say. Hey turn on the christmas tree and just have it automatically light up or activate christmas mode Different things we have fun with that stuff but again Smart plugs are key Turning on lamps turning on and off your pc. There's a bunch of different ways you can use them again super cheap. I'll put a couple of different ones in the show notes for this episode. Those are some nice toys now. Obviously i can recommend funchal pops till i'm blue in the face but i'm getting out of that a little bit because they've been very expensive but what's really impressed me as of late if you're if you're into action figures has been the stuff that mcfarland has been putting out Mcfarlane toys got the dc license recently. And they've been putting out some really awesome. Dc figures From a variety of dc comics and shows Whether it's teen titans they gotta cyborg out from teen titans. But i actually picked up a couple of batman figures from some of the latest like dark nights metal and Other assorted batman things like the games etc. But it's not just all batman stuff. He's doing superman. Wonder woman all the usual characters that are really nice Gal gadoe wonder woman eighty four in the golden armor that she wears in the trailer really nice figures. Mcfarland's been knocking it out of a park or if you're a dc fan Definitely check out mcfarland's dc line of figures. He is knocking them out of the park. Also wanna throw a big shoutout to the fine folks at hasbro who have just been taking my money left and right with all of their great products whether you're gi. Joe fan transformers. Fan star wars especially Power rangers hasbro has been killing it Their new gi. Joe line is a reimagining of the classics cobra. Commander all of those guys all the figures that they've put out have been outstanding they also are doing like Bay partnered up with pcs which pop culture shock. And they're doing really nice Statues if you're a gi joe fan They're doing all the fan favorites storm. Shadow snake is desperate cobra. Commander and the best part. Is there only fifty bucks. They got a forty nine ninety nine price tag. And they're phenomenal. I picked up. a colbert. commander The paint job for the cobra staff that he's holding is in great but overall it's a very very nice piece. They're also doing a line of transformers statutes as well. That will run you like. I said about fifty bucks. We'll make sure to include links to some of that stuff in the show notes now. Of course gotta talk some video games their toys their great and of course with the release of the playstation five and the xbox series x and series s. Everyone's going crazy. But i gotta tell you before. I give my recommendations in the gaming space i gotta tell you. Do not pay resale. Don't do it. I understand that your kids or your loved ones or your family members. They may want that shiny new. Ps five or that shiny xbox to not pay resale. there will be more consoles. I promise you. Yes it sucks that the box that people using bots and buying up ten playstations out of time ten xbox consoles. It's a big pain in the butt and i feel for you folks. I've been trying to get myself an xbox series x and it has been impossible. I got i got lucky and got a. Ps five thanks to an assist. From my my. My rage works teammate. Slick but otherwise. I wouldn't have been able to get a ps five either. But in any case. Sure i can sit here and tell you get a ps five xbox series x. but honestly. i. I want to recommend the switch of all things. That nintendo switch not only because it's an incredible value but because you can get the Sign up for the nintendo account. Download retro games and play retro games on the system. You know any s classics etc. But the best part is the switch gives you the best of both worlds. You can plug it into the dock and play it on your tv or you can take it on the go and enjoy those same games whether you're on the bus train etc. It's a great all around system. There's an amazing library of games Any of the first party stuff is always top notch. you know. Any mario zelda is always great. Love all of that stuff. A lot of people were playing animal crossing not my cup of tea but a lot of people speak highly of the game. I'm looking forward to the super. Three d all-stars collection which is going to have super mario sixty four. You know those three d. style. Mario games in one collection for you. Play on the go which is outstanding. Love love any mareo games. I'm a. I'm a huge sucker for those so i still play them. So that's my console recommendation. Yes i can say. Get a ps five. Get an xbox but that's just too easy and like i said it's just way too difficult right now if you can get one great if you can't all good they're still great stuff available for the playstation which leads me to the other gaming recommendation. The spider spiderman. Miles morales game. You can play it on the ps four and you can play it on the ps five. And like i said it's it doesn't matter on whatever console you played on it is an outstanding game I love what insomniac did. It's even being included in our rage. Works gift guide. But just a great game if you can pick it up and you got a. Ps four or even a ps five. I cannot stress. How amazing spider man. Miles morales a fun game very enjoyable a lot of fan service especially if you enjoy the miles morales spiderman if you like spider verse. There's just a lotta great stuff speaking of spider verse if you can get a launch edition copy of the game. You'll get a code to use spider verse costume in the game as well which is awesome so definitely got a recommend that so nintendo switch mario three all stars Spider man miles morales All recommendations lastly this. This is a little crazy. I know some people have asked and they've seen it either on my instagram rage. Works rich or even on the regular rage works instagram. And it's Some of the marvel legends props. That i've been picking up The fan knows infinity. Gauntlet the ironman infinity gauntlet black panthers helmet captain. America's shield all through the marvel legends line. Great additions to your home office. They're all outstanding but the craziest piece that just was recently announced. Is the storm breaker. Which is you know. Four's weapon in avengers endgame man. What a great piece. Hasbro's been knocking out of the park. with these collectibles. Like i said. I picked up the thanos gauntlet recently. I mean i picked up the gauntlet. But i picked up the iron man gauntlet for a steel. I think i got it for seventy bucks at a local game. Stop and i gotta tell you. It's a great piece lights. Sounds just a a really great piece for your home office or you know. You're she shed or your man cave or your basement. Whatever it is Love everything that marvel legends has been putting up but that storm breaker piece is out standing. It's a it's a big piece though so you got to either have the wall space or the desk space. Excuse me the shelf space or wall space to display it because it is great but the storm breaker pieces outstanding. Now if you're a fan of star wars they're even doing some great Boba fett helmets. They're doing a helmet for the mandalorian. Of course which is to be expected Hasbro's also doing a helmet for cobra commander and for snake eyes. So they're going to be some really cool ones for gi joe fan so definitely got to recommend those if you wanna add something a little bit more large to your home office. Those are some great toys that i can recommend. Lastly we're all home the holidays. There's a lot of cooking that's going to be done. Whether you are an amateur cook or a novice cook One of my favorite cooking toys or my kitchen toys is my instant pot my instant pots and my air fryer. It's it's a. It's a toss up and i'll tell you why the incident pot you can always find him on sale for the holidays and they are the one versatile tool that can make anybody. That's even a mediocre cook. A pretty decent one. You can slow cook. You can pressure cook. You can make rice in it. Do a bunch of things. They're cheap like i said you can get a decent one for fifty bucks now for the holidays. Walmart does a bunch of deals love. The instant pot used it for maguy mashed potatoes for thanksgiving. Use it too hard boiled eggs and bulk Use it for a bunch of dishes. When i was doing my kito diet. There's so many things you can do with it. Like i said it replaces a bunch of different appliances. It has a slow excuse me a slow cooking function if you wanna do stews and chilly etc it's great for that But if you want to do some of the other stuff you know tougher cuts of meat which are cheaper Especially now if you're cooking bulk especially cuts the cooking time in half Sometimes even more so so you wanna make that beef stew and you know you want to crank it out really fast do it. In bulk the instant pots will get the job done. Like i said if it wasn't my other toss up would be an air fryer. I'm using one from I want us to believe it's cuisinart that we have. It's a toaster oven. Air fryer combo outstanding air. Frying pickle chips french fries or tater tots again stuff to cut cooking time in half cooking. Cooking quickly and cooking in bulk is massive. It's two of my favorite kitchen toys That i've been using as of late. Love both We'll put some links to some recommendations listen for air friars. the pot is doing one. I got to play with it once a friend of mine. Has it pretty cool Ninja has been killing it with their Instant pot you know devices as well as their air fryer. So i'll put links to that in the show notes as well and the last thing i wanna say is a gift that is important whether it's for toys whether it's for tag it is time. Time is the best gift you have whether it's taking that time and putting it towards growing your business growing your brand growing that passion project into a business but more importantly the time you have with your family with your loved ones with those closest to. You is bigger than any gift that i can recommend. Time is time is what we all need. We need more of it and not only that we need to make the most of it. So that's the best gift. I wanna give all a you is. It's time and i think that's a great way to kind of bring this show full circle time and listening. That's that's really it. Listen to those around you. Listen to those that want to give you real actionable advice to Improve your businesses improve your content etc. Not everybody's trying to steal your idea so you know go out. There engage network. Listen to other people and not only that but make sure you have people that are listened to you especially as we're getting into the tail end of the year. There's there's a lot of stuff that's going on so many of my peers. Those closest to me They really just need people to listen. And when i mean they need people to listen. I mean we're so busy working trying to take care of everybody. Our businesses that we don't take care of ourselves and it's it's prevalent. I've i'm guilty of it. It's happened more than i care to admit but one of the biggest things that has helped get me back on track is people that are in my circle that listen find those people and share what calling on. Make sure they listen. Hell i can be that person you know. If you're going through some challenges you you need an ear. Shoot me a line. I set it in in the episode about entrepreneurial depression i'm saying it again shoot me align. Hey i got a problem. I'm trying to do this the mind you know i share. I run it by you. Whatever it is no judgments send it. My way i'll try and answer. I'll try to listen because sometimes that's what's gonna make or break somebody that's you know on. The edge is the fact that they don't have that one person to listen to them. So if i can give you any other gift to wrap things up. It's time and listening and i think that to wrap things up. I am grateful that you folks listen to me for all the content we put out. I truly truly appreciate it. And more importantly i appreciate your time the time that you take to engage with our content whether it's written audio video. I truly truly appreciate it and i think that's a perfect way to close out our twenty twenty gift guide now with that said our releasing this episode first week of december. We're probably going to try and do one or two more episodes. Four december take a brief break to again recharge. Listen and make the most of the time we got. We're gonna hit it hard and twenty twenty one and try and do some more awesome stuff with our podcast with the rage works network and everything else. One thing i will share is that i hope to hopefully in two thousand twenty one. Open up our brand new creative space where people can come in record their podcasts You record their content. Whether it's youtube videos unboxing videos blogs all of that stuff we wanna give people a space locally that they can come in if they don't have a space in their home or they gotta do is bring their as d. card and bring their content and press record and we'll take care of the rest so the goal is to have that up and running Twenty twenty one If you wanna stay up to date with that we're actually Setting up an email list that you can sign up for and stay up to date with the development of the creative space where we're at etc right now Aside from naming locking down all the social It's getting money to launch it. So that's kind of where we're at but nonetheless you wanna stay up to date with that. Particular project will make sure to include a link in the show notes for this episode for that for you to stay up to date and there will be linked to everything we've discussed in this episode as well as always full transparency. Some of that stuff may contain affiliate links. Which if you use it will give us a little bit of a commission again at no additional cost to you so if something we recommend is nineteen ninety nine and you click the link and you buy it. It's nine hundred ninety nine. We may get a small commission but it does not affect the price too. Many people Think that using affiliate links is you know them paying someone a commission. It's not or they're all already being paid a commission on. Is you using a link and purchasing a product so the links will have in the show notes for this episode will be affiliate links like i said any commissions we may go towards giving you folks the best content possible whether it's good on air content good video content good written content. That's where the money goes back into the business to give you guys the best experiences possible. Thank you guys for checking out the toys and tech trade twenty twenty gift guide. I hope you and your families had a great thanksgiving and you folks have a great holiday season as always if you have any questions concerns. Shoot me a message. Rich at rage works dot net. You can engage with rage. Works on any social media platform of your choice. We are everywhere will put links for that in the show notes for this episode and last but not least make sure to check out. Some of the other shows on the rage works podcast network. We truly do have something for everyone. You can follow us. rage works network dot com. Visit their check out all the shows you can also find all the shows on the podcast platforms of your choice. Then you guys for taking the time to listen to this episode once again. And i'll catch you guys on the next one piece pop off. Toys of the trade is part of the rage works. Podcast network your source for rants about gaming entertainment and the works visit. Us and rage works network dot com.

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Energy-based! : Skate Photography, with Matt Price

B&H Photography Podcast

53:49 min | 4 months ago

Energy-based! : Skate Photography, with Matt Price

"You're listening to the beach. Photography podcast for over forty years being h has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favourite gear news and reviews visit at h. dot com or download. The beach apt to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan white's screenings and welcome to the beach photography. Podcast it's the first episode of twenty twenty. One are joined in math and we figured out. This is like our fifty seventh year on the air right john. I think that's pretty much what it is. A fifty seven years I was practicing for my bar mitzvah. Warren born yet. I remember that clearly anyway today. We welcome photographer. Net price to the show. Matt is escaped photography specializes in capturing people defying the laws of nature and too many of us the lives of common sense but doing insane acrobatics on skateboards. But as a reality check your takes lots of pictures falling off skateboards today. We're gonna be talking about his work from several standpoints technique style gear and also how he translated this work into a career. Matt is actually paying his bills while doing something he really likes and with a camera no less. What a novel idea. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me appreciate it. It's great having you a few more tidbits for our listeners. Are you originally arizona. And you're currently based in la But you go all over the place that was staff photographer and later editor at the skateboard mag. And he's currently the brand director at the seat. See eh skate shop. Matt even has a personal side hustle. He produces golden hours skateboarding which is a gorgeous print publication. We're gonna be talking about that too anyway again. Welcome welcome to the show it. It's just really a lot of fun. Having i know jason in particular has been real answer back on and talking about where he He's he's crazy about you stuff. We're all big fans. How did you make your skate. Photography notices is there much work out there what. This is like a niche market. If there ever was yes definitely selling trombone oil over here. But i think for me it really came down to a it was right place right. Time i lucked out. That i learned how to do what i did. At a young age i found to. You wanna talk niche. I found a website when i was sixteen years old. Skateboard photography dot com. And so this is. I'm thirty four now so that was sixteen years ago right that eighteen years ago. I don't know how to do math but So i found this website and it had a critique forum and a bunch of tutorials. And i i grew up riding skateboards since i was nine and i was obsessed with them. All i wanted to do is take video and take photos of skating in. I stumbled upon this site when i was sixteen and i had just got a camera and it was a i learned from just reading these. These angry skate photographers in the critique forums. Really and i. I really got lucky. I only existed for a few younger workers. Crazy right but But yeah i got really lucky. That this This website existed right at that time. When i was young i kana i started. Just you know. I guess. Trial and error. I would shoot film. I would develop it would get its and i would posted on critique i'd get ripped to shreds i'd cry night in cry but i i definitely i was hurt a lot of times so now trying to learn how to do this and And then through that. I made friends with a lot of You know these. These guys who shot skate photos not even professional is just really talented photographers. Who are on that forum and they taught me a lot and so that was kind of like that set the stage for me being like understanding the foundation of how to shoot action within skating at a young age. And then when i was seventeen and a half i started submitting photos to thrasher transworld. The skateboard mag was a new magazine. The just formed a all the biggest heavy hitters from transworld. Who who built transworld skate into what it was. They sold it to aol. Time warner And then it got a little to corporate. So they all left and started the skateboard mag and that was just like the coolest thing in the world to me. And i was obsessed with it and i just ask you know. You're you're sixteen years old and how'd you get the The courage to keep sending stuff in. If you're getting trashed like that. I mean an obviously it hurts a little bit. You know we all have to go through this but Was it something you wrestled with you. Ever think about giving up or was it. Just you loved it so much and it was a community head and kept going. i think it was combination I definitely just loved. It wasn't going to stop doing it until until i got good at it. I think now that i'm older. I kinda. I'm jealous of that. Because i still haven't found another thing that i love as much as shooting skateboard pictures. So i'm your. You're always trying to find that other thing that i i was obsessed. I just. I didn't care. Like i wanted to prove all those guys wrong and the nice thing about starting with that critique Was it was a bunch of amateurs. They were better than me but they were amateurs. So it's kind of like the farm league like i was able to to you know. Spend a year putting photos on that forum in that critique and then kinda getting up to par where oh i had a couple of photos they like do they said this was good or i kinda like. Cut my teeth there. And then after that first year when i was about seventeen seventeen and a half i. I felt the competence to send some photos to magazine editors i was able to. You know i was resourceful. I found some people on that site who knew some of the editors emails and i was e mailing them and and sending photos and luckily the editors at the magazines were not as mean as the kids on the internet. What about you note is when someone comes to you. Wanna kid sends you their stuff for you Rip them to shreds. Are you pretty nice. No i i go out of my way to answer every single message. I critique every photo that is sent to me. I i really. I believe that that is like at the level that i get hit up about it. Which is you know maybe a couple times a week. It's not like i'm getting twenty a day. Maybe if that were the case. I would have to chill out but i really do think fit for how little time it takes to. Just look at someone's photos take a few minutes to read a message. And i'll let them sit for a minute and tie of time to actually look at the photos they send and i actually want to send them something specific about what they're sending because i don't know i think it goes a long way and so i think I think having gone through that and having been You know shit on so hard in my early days. I really do. I take it to heart when younger kids are asking how they can get better. What's wrong with their photos. What i really like. I wanna go out of my way to be extra nice to them because i just remember how much that hurt and it does help to get you know get razzed a little bit but i also think that there's a there's better ways of doing that than just breaking someone's soul in that case you question I'm looking through your instagram pages. As you're talking and something dawned on me that it didn't strike me earlier in that. I can't think of another sport in which the photographer comes into such close contact with the athlete. And you're you're in the action in in in many ways because you're shooting with wider angle quite often and they've not even far from you with a wide angle lens. The in that pushes things way from you am. I wrong may is. Can you think of anything else where you are that. Close to the athlete at the moment like that especially in critical moments No that's a really good point. Actually i never thought about it. Like that i I know there really. Isn't i think i i will say just. So you like so. I'm shooting with a fifteen millimeter. Eight but usually fifteen. And i get hit if i go out to shoot skating for full day. I'll get hit at least once every full every day every day. I'm out shooting. I so aboard hits my lens or my camera at least once In got to a. I think where i just. I wanted to get closer and you get so used to it and it's like it doesn't feel scary as you just you kind of know how most the tricks are gonna go. You know how people are going to bail at a certain point so you kind of just get all right up there yesterday at type or like he risks at the right word like a little bit of a stupidity and then getting a little cocky where it's at i know where the boards going to go and i really from a point of knowledge. Though there are no words. I would encourage anybody to go out or this guy's work is cool. I'm going to go stick my head in front of his company on a scale. No you don't do that and you mentioned you mentioned. Something is really important that you are escape. What do you understand the thought process. You understand the physics you understand the realities you understand what the parameters are of what you can do what you can't do so you can put yourself out there And you know when they get the hell out usually okay magin. You do get dinged up in banged around a lot. And i imagine you must have an interesting warranty gear. So yeah. it's called my savings account. But i think i was gonna say i think there's something really unique about shooting skating in. It's it's this really perfect blend of a of like studio photography and sports photography right so the part of what allows me to get so close to someone when they're doing something that is like dangerous. Or kinda sketchy is because the people shooting with most of the time. I have a relationship with the trust me. They know what i'd do. They know that nine times out of ten. They're not gonna hit me and and there's a trust there so the best photos the ones around the closest are usually with people that have shot with a lot. And it's it's all kind of like tree it's planned or most of the time like no one's rolling up to a alleged or a set of stairs and i don't know what they're gonna try so that's also super helpful. It's not like when you're shooting a a basketball game or football game in you. Don't it's very unpredictable. And which that's a whole other rad. Part of sports photography is tall unpredictable. So getting something. You didn't know what's going to happen is incredible but at the same time. You can't be so in the action because you'll just get destroyed because you don't know anything's going when someone has tried escape trick you know twenty times already you kinda you see the patterns. You see. they're bailing. you see. They're doing it sometimes. They'll try the trick. You know five or ten times before. I even get in there to shoot one so that helps a lot too. Obviously there's still going to be lots of unpredictable stuff that happens but it's kind of like a you know if you were in the studio Mark you're gonna stand on your mark and you're gonna look to the less you know it's like i know they're gonna be doing kick flip they're going to be popping at that crack and i know they're landing here so that that's that's helpful to to get the confidence of be up in their. I think let me ask about that. That's a good point. I mean do you consider yourself good directing i mean how. How important are those skills and and did it take you a while to develop them. I mean yeah yeah no. It's funny i just. I've learned in the last few years through my my new job. Actually where i'm you know. I'm a marketing director. Essentially and i've learned that. Like i am kind of a director because also a producer. A lot of stuff in skating that you do for a decade. You don't realize that you've been location scouting producing directing you know you've been. You're you've literally done. Every single job on a photo set or filmed set because you never thought of it like a production but it really is and direction is in something. I realized that you do have to be pretty good at to do this kind of work. You do have to cause any set up your lights. You know where the scale has to go and move around them and stuff and and usually you're not telling the skater too much about what they're gonna do. They're they're choosing what they're gonna do but there have been times where you know you suggest like hey you wanna come at this angle. Maybe you're this a little bit more like this. Because i think this would look cool or you know. If if they're really comfortable with the trick they're trying so there's definitely a level of direction that goes into it. And i just recently started kind of like standing all the all the other roles that you play not just taking the picture totally here that there has to be a lot of adrenaline for you as well as for the skater. I mean did you can take the rush that you got from skating and translated directly into toggle in you kind of feel that the that rush and in that competition all those elements the skaters feel. I think you do. I i think for me. So i think it's. There's there's a bit of a misconception sometimes about skateboarders in skateboarding that via the kind of the adrenaline rush a which is part of it. There are certain skaters who for the adrenaline. They want to jump off the highest thing. They wanna fly out. They want to be in the air as long as they can. But i came from this whole school of skating. That's more technical more low to the ground skating for scaredy cats. I guess we could call it an adrenalin kid growing up. I was always a little overweight. Little slower. I wasn't i wasn't bad at sports right in the middle but I was just not that super ethnic kid. In technical skating appealed to me because it was more like figuring out like a math equation than than getting adrenalin rush. And you'll sit and you'll just try a trick. You know like a hundred times near front yard until get it in. And i think that There was something really like magical about those technical skaters to me. That had like just like just really just locked it in there. Just amazing at it. Right like they've done you can tell. They put in their ten thousand hours or so talented. I was just thought they were like the coolest people in the world because they have this competence competence that comes with like crazy talent and that to me was always more appealing than the adrenaline kind of side in. And through just being around it and not being as good as my friends did not progressing as fast as them. You just You don't wanna get left behind. You know like if you have three friends. And they're all they all learned to kick flip in the same week and you don't learn for six months you you kinda need to come up with an excuse to roll around with them. Which sounds really bad. If they're your real friends you don't but when you're feel like you need that so i think a lot of kids that are like the worse skater. In their crew get pushed into media. They pick up a video camera camera. And i think that's a that's that's pretty much. There was an old Skate mag where there was. They were interviewing a bunch of media people in. I think the question they asked was like. How'd you get into shooting photos. Where you rich kid or affected and i always thought that was really funny in. That was the ladder. So i just i wanted so badly to be around it and then i learned like oh you can hack. You don't have to have the stress or the pressure of being a pro skater. If you just document the skating you get to go on all the trips you get to live the same lifestyle you get the party in sleep till noon everyday you do all all the fun parts of this but you don't have to really bust your ass quite the same so that was a. That was a huge selling point of trying to document skating also creating stuff and you have something that's going to live you and you're gonna share it with everybody. Everyone's going to see it. And and of course. The skaters love it too. So you know there's a lot of i and and that comes later. I think that's realization. You spend the first ten years just wanting to live the lifestyle and then all of a sudden you wake up in a you know really big hangover one day in your life shit. I just built a body of work. That i own and built connections with this whole skate industry on accident. And then you're able to know use that stuff for the next steps. There was the guy the show twenty years ago the lifestyles and rich and famous. Who is that guy. The same thing. He didn't have anything. But he every robin wine and dine on yachts and mansions everything else in like he. He's like laughing all the way to thank you robin leach interest. Are you talking about technical moves. And how important is it to actually document a certain move. I mean when you're out there shooting with somebody Know something that you know and other skaters gonna recognize but the rest of maybe not so much. I mean it is or it does a good photo. Let's say is going to is going to outweigh a shot of particular move or or is that kind of two separate skills. Yeah i think. I think it's two different styles of doing this job really. It's like they're a good example would be like thrasher magazine which is like the largest state media in the world currently you know and they are kinda like the leading authority on on state media. Their whole style is kind of focused a little more on documentation versus creating and that when it comes down to that style like a lot of photos you see in that magazine very like clean straightforward really even lighting. You just want to see the trick. They're usually the biggest gnarliest tricks. It's like about documenting the progression of skating. Which like you know. Everyone respects that. And i respect that and i think that there's a place for that the type of stuff that i do though is the exact opposite and the stuff that i like the most which is which is kind of creating and distorting and like building some drama and working with the skater. Take a take a trick. That isn't really like a industry-leading trick. It's not the trick itself is not gonna make anyone jaw drop. Maybe the way they do the trick. There's this really unique part of how they do it or they catch their kick flip in a certain way where you're like all but if we can get the if i can get the lens really close to your back foot while you're catching your kick flip like this. That's going to be a really cool photo. And then that's the kind of. That's the photo that i wanna make with the skater versus like doing the hardest trick. Let's just go document that so so it's definitely it's important. I think to to document like difficult tricks but the style photo shoot that. I've really fallen into shooting more and more of is less about the the difficulty level. The trick in more about like what's happening. Where's the nuance in this like. We're we're the little subtle hits that we can focus on and using a tool official which is super dramatic. It's super exaggerating. You can really hone in on those certain points. You know the feet of the board of the trucks and stuff like that. So that's kinda so that's that's kind of like so tansel. That's a long way answering the question but yes. So there's there's i look at it as two styles of shooting really and i prefer the latter now you mentioned early on. That is an interesting thing we were talking about. How the proximity that. You are to your subjects and all that stuff and you said that what you're doing is a combination of sports and studio and it is because you do use flash for a lot of your stuff especially a lot of your close up real dramatic stuff with a wider angle lenses. That are pretty obvious there. What i'm curious about is. How much do you pre visualize now. Obviously i think you answered that. I mean you you kind of know what you're lenzi's because you've done this a number of times. What about things like focus and exposure. How much of this do you go manual. You go full auto. Do you trust the cameras. Or is it a combination of say you know Say auto t t l setting the base exposure. What what are you doing. How you combining all of these features so usually it's from a really long process of trial and error but it's all manual. I do everything. I shoot everything manual i had to say. I don't even know what stands for. I've always seen it on my flashes. And i never six. I don't understand it. But i have a formula for most of my Photos and usually it involves manual focus. There's a sweet spot on most fish is where as long as you're shooting at efate eight or higher. Most everything is going to be in focus. So you find the sweet spot on your lens like i remember when i used to shoot with a hasselblad a thirty millimeter zeiss lens. That was a really big talking point amongst scape tigers. Who shot the like. Where's the sweet spot on this lens whereas the sweet spot on this lens because a lot of the time it's just set it in forget it with a with fish i focus and then as far as flashes go i just always set my flashes at a quarter or half power and then i just kind of move them around from there. Now that it's digital. It's really easy with trial and error. And there's kind of a nice imperfection that comes from that. I think if you chase like every now and then i'll try to really get sharp focus on a certain point. Inefficient iphoto excruciating. I'm not. I'm not good at that. I'm way better just like setting the basics leaving the chance and just hoping that it looks cool in in kind of capturing the energy there so so it's definitely settings wise and stuff it's a it's a formula and i don't break from it too too often in it but the the thing that you you do differently every time as you move around and you know you spin around the skater and you can try different angles and different styles. Moving the light. I think is super huge. But as far as the actual settings of everything stays the same. i'd say eighty five ninety percent of the time. She basically concentrating taking the shot. Your you with the tech technical part is essentially transparent to you. Just you just aiming that camera taking pictures at that point which is what you should be doing. Yeah i mean. I think it's about i'm at this place in our. I'm just really like i was explaining it kind of sounds pretentious or kooky you're to arty but documenting the energy rather than telling you telling a story right like you can either tell the story of a trick. He came from here he went to their. Or you want to document the story of the energy which is like it doesn't none of that matters when you're just trying to tell the energy story you're like all that matters is like shapes in in like in blur in like spin and like i dunno whatever just gives it the energy so it's all about just getting as close as you can pulling back and then you know getting underneath someone or getting above them in trying seventeen different angles till you just have one that you skater agree like oh that's the angle let's go in on that so it's kind of finding that energy. Do you always kinda work with the skated. You show the show on the images. Do you get feedback and considered a collaboration pretty much. Always most of the time i prefer to there are times where i'm like. You know if i get hired to do a shoot in the sometimes skaters don't care you know you're always gonna get better images when the skater does care when there's someone who wants to look at the photo and they wanna have ideas as well like that. I love that. Like i'm not. I'm not the person who i welcome any like collaboration. Right from the skater for sure because that's exciting to me to work with them. Other some skaters you just don't care they don't even want to see it they don't really like and it's not that they don't that sounds shady. Don't care but they don't really like not that they don't value the photo. They're just focused on what they're doing and they trust you and they're like man good so it just depends the better photos to me. Always come from when when the skater does want to see it when they do look at it when they can. They can look at what they're doing and be like. Oh maybe i'll try this different. You know special china of process. That happens in. It doesn't happen with very many but the close close friends it does. when you're trying to create a blur Have you developed any link tricks and techniques that work for you or is it really just kind of Trial and error free situation. Slow shutter drink too much coffee. I think is a good combination. That gives you a nice little jitter every time the camera. Now i think in general i just keep it loose and just move the camera. A bunch of different ways. There's some standard. Like the swirl fun where if you as you're shooting slower shutter you spin and then you get those nice swirly perfect circle panel like light trails but then sometimes You know painting with skater. If it's if it's brighter. I'm not in like a really good shadow than i. If i'm on a panel at needs to pan with the skater you know or else. I'm just gonna get a blurry. Nestle soup and not get anything sharp. Because that's another thing. I think sometimes you'd see some of the photos in assume like oh it's just blurry in fun and that's cool but like there's always one thing in focus. I try to make sure there's one really sharp point in every photo. Usually it's the face that's a great britain. Who's kind of the godfather escaped. Telegraphy he was my one of my early mentors. And e was one of the owners of the skateboard mag in him. And dave swift or the people that gave me my first job Grant always said make sure the faces in focus which is the most important part. But you might not think 'cause you'd think skateboard feed all this stuff but the face needs to be sharp and then everything else can be whatever and i i i live by that rule. That sounds like a good place to take a short break. Stay tuned we'll be back with more with neck price. Don't go away. We hope you're enjoying this edition of the b and h photography. Podcast the best way to support the show by subscribing on apple podcasts. Google podcasts spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts for links to gear and more information on today's guests check out the show notes in your podcast app or visit our homepage on the h. Explore website and joined the h. photography podcast facebook group. And now back to the show. Okay we are back john. You aren't gonna ask a question right. Thanks ellen and and thanks again for joining us man. I kinda wanted to follow up on on something we were talking about at the end and you were talking about focus on faces and and it can leads me into some of the questions ahead regarding working with products and brands and when you may want to have the focus. Let's say on a shoe or a you know a truck or on some you know logo How how do you think about that when you're doing commercial work so it's it depends. I guess a lot of the time when you're doing like a like a shoot like safe. Nike hires shoot. Like they're you know. I can work with the art director. And i honestly love those shoots when there's an art director because it's it's refreshing to take direction sometime in. Just be like just telling me what to do and sometimes you know they'll they'll give you a specific. We really want this to be sharper. We really want. We really wanted to make sure that we show the whole board or the whole shoe or whatever it is But in general in it's it's all way more lax like. I have a lot of friends that shoot commercial stuff outside a skate. And i've done a little bit of that but not a ton yet end a it sounds like people are a lot more picky within skating. It's such a small community and kind of knows what everyone does. So when i get hired from a brand like Or something the people hiring me or people who have known my work for you know ten years and they they know what it is and they know what they're getting so most of the time they're just like you do your thing you do you know. Get close through the. They got lucky. The style of photo. That i like to shoot is really like puts the shoe as like star so that the shoe campaigns know really work. Well what i do because even if something isn't sharp the photo is going to be. Filled with fifty percent of the photo is a is a shoe. So i think they're usually pretty happy with that but But yeah in general. I think i spent years shooting skating. Shooting the trick. I the skater. First and then after the fact brands would come to you and say hey. Do you have a good photo of so. And so we need an ad. And then you'd say i got this photo and they'd be like great and they wouldn't even necessarily be wearing the product. They were trying to advertise. They were just like we just need a good skate photo. And so that's how that kind of like scrutiny. Up for you know a decade of that. And now i'm shooting trying to not what ccs work. I shoot stuff for for ccs. The company i work for and i'm very much focused on like. Oh what are we selling. We're selling pants. I wanna make sure that the pants of the star of the show that we don't want to make sure that logos crispin skating has just been so lax traditionally that it's it's very it's been interesting transition into into getting into that marketing mindset from just kinda documenting escape tricking creating something. We think works. Cool is interesting. Can you tell us a little bit of. Ccs yeah so is a skateboard mail. Order started in the eighties and they were like the biggest skate shop in the world in the nineties and they sent out. You know thirteen million catalogs a year. Every skater who grew up in the nineties grew up getting those catalogs. You know they were free. So i remember my mom had my dad had when i get to my house every because he could and and then they had some ups and downs they were bought and sold a few times and then in two thousand thirteen they were about to be put out of business and a company in portland. Called daddy's board shop bought the intellectual property in a kind of started from scratch again And they hired me as a consultant. And i slowly transitioned from being a photographer into being brand director and Trying to help them rebuild the brand and five years six years later now seven years old a long time. It's it's gone well and you know my job over. There is pretty much oversee just all things. Creative marketing escaped team managed. Currently a team of two people were still pretty small in the scheme of the world but decent size within skating. And and yeah. It's kind of a cool blend. It's it's really fun to kind of like oversee projects from the top. Now and i still shoot on some of the projects but sometimes hiring people It's difficult sometimes to to take budget in higher photographer. When you know you could do something you know pretty easily are for no extra budget or something like that but But yeah it's been it's been really cool learning experience to kind of understand what i was doing all these years and how it can go into the bigger machine of a brand or a business or something like that because you know it's easy to trick yourself when you're younger into your like i'm just making art and then at the end of the day you know everyone's kind of selling something especially within skating you know and the soon you you recognize that the better off you are. I mean really. It's game where you fit in. I see skaters. Photographers is still trying to pretend they're not and i'm like your whole livelihood. Skaters are all sponsored by brands. That are trying to use them to sell products. Year photos are getting bought by even if they're bought for an editorial in a magazine that's a magazine that lives in dies by their advertisers. And you know it's it's it's funny. Skating loves to pretend like it exists in. This vary like almost bohemian kind of place. Sometimes or whatever. I'm like we're all inside the capitalist structure like everybody else here. What's interesting because as an outsider. I escaping seem so tied to brands in many ways. It seems that if you're going to be a professional skater. There's no other way other than betide to a brand isn't that isn't that true. I mean the. I mean that's that's the whole model is based off of that. I mean there are a few few skaters that could make their living solely off contests. But that i can count on one hand. How many there are like it really is like if you don't if you don't have a good more now more shoe sponsor you know like a shoe contract is what makes breaks a pro at this point if you don't have a shoe contract you're not really taken seriously as a pro skater. Not not by personally but by the rest of the industry you know you still have respecting. You're still that sound really lame and corporate to say. But i just have seen it firsthand like trying to get skaters sponsored by other people. And they're like well who's a shoe sponsor It doesn't have one right now. Then they're not interested so it really does come down to the sponsorships so you had mentioned you know and we kind realize that it is a small world to some degree in this community and also as someone who's not hiring photographers What are you looking for out there. That might be something different or something interesting to you in terms of escape hungry so a lot of times when i'm hiring i'm hiring for more like look book in product style photos not so much action Skate so i'm usually focused on. You know who understands the goal who is going to be easy to work with who can turn around photos fast who can take a shot list in give me you know most of it back shot so it becomes a little bit more like just a different process channel rather than looking for like the magic at least for you know for product stuff for ccs stuff. There's a whole other side of this where you know my little side project which will talk about is. I would love to grow that into something where i am taking. Submissions from skater from photographers. That are based on skate. Photos that are based on shooting action. I do think there's a handful of people out there in the world And i say the world. Because i really think you have to kind of scour the globe to find it i can probably think of like five or six people. Currently that are doing unique. Cool things that. I'm like man. I really wanna like build a build something cool and involve these people. I see their photos on instagram. I think oh. God i wanna use that for something. I wanna work with this person. They're doing really cool work in and I think it's it's it's always just about like i don't know if it's more about their bond with the skaters because that's a huge part of it right if someone can't vibrate with the skater than they're just not gonna get good photos in any capacity whether it's portrait or scape photo or whatever and there's just some guys out there that that have the mix of they can. They can five skaters. You can tell that they're part of the crew they're accepted and then they're also curious with their photography which i think Curiosity is like you know not super easy to come by all the time. I guess curiosity with talent. But especially in like certain mediums where there's a set rules right like. Oh well there's there's a certain way that you can just learn to shoot a decent skate photo and then if you stop there then you can just you can have career. Probably if you know you know the right people in the skaters like you can just keep shooting that way. It's cool to see the skaters who are in that position that kind of have the career they have the basics down but that are still wanting to push the envelope. They're still trying something even if it's bad. Sometimes i appreciate a a weird bad photo way more than i appreciate a standard sterile boring photo. I'd rather it suck than than be boring. I guess right now and you mention you know photographers around the world or skating around the world and and you've traveled a lot to skate scenes. All over the world right. i mean. Can you talk a little bit about some of the things. You've noticed differently particularly when it comes to photography. I mean are there. Are there whole other set of styles out there. And what do you think. Well yeah i mean. I was lucky to. I got my job. I started working for the skateboard mag. When i was nineteen so that was two thousand five. That was still a really good point. Skating with there was lots of trout. There's still lots of travel but that was like the norm for every brand. You know like. I would go go to tokyo with a small wheel company from canada. You know and now that's unheard of the only brands at travel internationally or the giant. So i was really lucky that that was still a huge part of the blueprint of the skate. Industry was just constant global. Travel so i got you know. Go a ton of places from age. Nineteen to twenty six essentially. Just see pretty much everywhere. And that was obviously. That's huge during that time of your life to do that like i. I forget so often how much that i owe travel for anything. I've been able to do later because it just opens your mind but As far as like photo stuff goes it really is interesting to see how photographers in different regions. How they shoot what they're into. They focused on I will say the website that i learned to shoot photos on dot com was started by german guy and there was tons of german photographers on which is very interesting. If you wanna learn the basics of something that how to do something. Technically proficient learn from german i they are like they are by the book like they have they. Their cameras are clean and pristine perfect Like they all about perfection and they like they like it's like it's so not what i do with dog affi but it was interesting to see you know. I had a bunch of german friends that we would talk about photo in their their photos. You know at the same age as me. Light years ahead because they were so on that technical proficiency tip the photo style i shoot now i notice pretty well received in japan and i think others lot of japanese photographers. They're shooting this little more looser kinda like based photo in and you can just. That's kind of how those two cultures i mean. I'm sure there's enough by the book talkers in japan too. But there's that kind of like a. I don't know maybe like a different appreciation for kind of the wildness of it in the energy. And the that that that tournament on sound like coop with the term wabi sabi. You know the perfect imperfection of something like that. I really appreciate just japanese culture. In general in as i've kinda as i've done my magazine and gotten to know you know some some more people over there. Distributors frozen stuff. I really what. I'm doing now. Really clicks over there and i get a lotta messages from People there and it's it's cool. It's really fun to kind of see. How different regions connect with different work in in in ways. Let's talk a little bit about your magazine that all right golden hour skateboarding and It's a print publication which is great. I'm i'm glad to see that you're doing it How long has been going. And what's the overall aesthetic goal. So yeah golden hour started in two thousand eighteen. I believe i was in portland. And i had been i. It was right when i started working fulltime. Ccs i moved up to portland oregon where the headquarters are. I had very little time to shoot So when i did go shoot. I you know twice a month probably a day where i get to go out with a group of skaters up there that i was i really liked. They kind of had this magical thing going. Where all these photos we were getting. Where some of my favorite photos i've ever shot and i think there was something. There was something special that happened about having a fulltime job. That wasn't taking pictures and then having free time to take pictures. I just stopped worrying or thinking at all beyond what i liked. I would just shoot exactly the way i wanted to with no preconceived idea of. Who's gonna need this for water. What is photos going to sell this to bat and it kinda like did this thing where it opened up like my photo work. I feel like into this new realm. Where i don't just let me experiment more. You got a. I got out of my bubble in and because it was such a release for me at that point and not a job. I made pictures that were just so different than what i've done before so so after about a year and a half a shooting with this. This crew had this stack of photos. That i felt were like some of the best fighter shot and i just. I was really excited about them. And some of them had been printed in magazines here or there. But like there's not you know transworld but still printing bimonthly in thrasher. But that's it really skate. And there's nowhere printing stuff. So i i kinda just realized like i wonder how much it would cost to print five hundred magazines when i did the research figured out. It wasn't that crazy. And you know i was like well. I guess i'll just make something you know. And if felt a little self indulgent to make magazine that's entirely your own photos but but then you look at other like worlds in like art and other things like that. People do this kind of thing all the time. I know that that's actually. It's a common marketing. Nothing in common. But it's it's been done before and there's nothing wrong with it all exactly and i think skating kind of drives this like this extreme humility into your soul as a coming up skateboarding. There's a lot of the culture that's built around like you don't you know. Don't clap for yourself when you land a trick. That's really hard that you've worked on for a year you're supposed to try your hardest but never ever look like you're trying harder. Never admit that you're tr so the idea of kind of giving yourself on entire issue of a magazine or a printed book just dedicated to your own work. Sounds like to me. It sounded crazy. Like i would pop into my head. I'd be like yeah. But i can't do that. That's that'd be a coup confided that everybody would be talking about that. Wouldn't it might be people few few purists out there who do think kook for doing it but i think it's fine. I think what i realized was the world had changed. You know. and there's there's a lot of things that are a lot different now than they were. When i first started doing all this and i need to throw some of those old playbook out the window and actually going through the first issue With an old friend as well actually andrew mccarthy who we grew up together on a skating and we we had a website Where we were in high school called skaters z dot com. And he is a. He is a highly talented designer and web developer. So he kinda. He is the one two punch on the other side of things that i don't know how to do so He hit him up. And i said hey. I have this stack of photos. I wanna make a sixty page little book. Do you wanna put it together. And he jumped on it and he said yeah. He was in berlin at the time and we would skype all the time and he you know he just one night knocked at a rough draft lay out that was eighty percent of what ended up being issue one and it just felt really right and we were super excited and and yet we. We went in on it. We did a photo show in portland. and it was a super cool and it was successful in. I think that was a real. 'cause i've always been a little bit. Entrepreneurial i started a skateboard company when i was nineteen and had that for eight years in the ice. A t-shirt brandon high school. And you know. I've done all these little dorky. Things that none of them have really worked in and this. This one was one that i really like had. Faith on my. There's a market for this. I don't think it's huge. You know but i was like. I think we saw five hundred of these and i want to ask you. Are you actually selling these magazines. And if so we're they available because he can five hundred you're not going to get a distributor. We sell them direct mostly and there are few skate shops that that buy them carry them. But like when. I say a few i mean less than ten then on the first issue at least and we sold direct in the first week. I think we sold three hundred seventy. We sold about one hundred on the night of the photos show so within the first week we had sold through almost five hundred which to me was like ok. This proves that this is something people want. They're not getting it. You know they wanted. We also printed on a away. Heavier stock than anyone in skate was printing on. I wanted it to feel high end Looking at all these these european fashion quarterly. The time you know. And i was looking at these twenty and twenty five dollars books. That were gorgeous. That i was buying it. Magazine stands and i thought there's kind of people skating that wanna buy a high quality twenty dollar skate mag and and like i said let's see a five hundred people wanna do it now. Now we're at the point where like let's see seven hundred and fifty people want to buy you know and then we're gonna push it until we hit the lynn. I'm sure it's not seventy thousand but there's some there's some limit we're gonna hit or we'll find the short ends very very cool calling cards and i don't say that in a weird way because you know you hand something over to somebody especially if you're looking to have somebody tool maybe do some funding for you. That's pretty good. That shows that you're serious and you got some credibility going on there and if you could sell them so much better i think that that's just really amazing especially in a world where Online i mean i also really appreciate you know a a heavy stock magazine good book because it's just refreshing after looking at screens all day long. Yeah yeah definitely. And i think it's just it's just so it's so cool to have something in your hands that you're proud of. I think that was you lose that so much. You know like a you get a you get a new follow or whatever you know knew someone. Dmz on instagram. Love photo in. That's cool but like you get that like physical thing in your hands that you created and you can feel a hundred percent proud of you know within work. There's you know. I'm proud of all the work. I do see everything but this is the thing. That's completely me and andrew much on the same page. So when i get to put out a golden hour. I get to know that like we didn't do anything no one you know. We didn't have to cut any corner. We didn't have to do anything anyone suggested to us. It was a hundred and ten percent what we wanted and that just feels nice weather. It sales are not like you know. Even if i you know one of these issues comes out. No one buys a single one. I got five hundred magazines to give his gifts next christmas so point so we didn't even ask this. What are you shooting with. Would it be over the years of you. Switch them upload cameras so yeah yeah so. When i first started shooting it was right before digital became accessible. So i i started shooting thirty five millimeter on like a old cannon. Es body and then kind of par for the course escape industry at the time was a hasselblad so gotta hasselblad five hundred c. My grandma actually helped me a ton shooting photos. When i was in high school. She she taught me about credit. She you know she didn't have a couple of grand. Just give me but she was like. I have amazing credit. I'll go into the bank cosign on a loan with you. And here's the booklet. Pay this offer. You ruined my credit. This high pressure thing. Don't ruin my credit. It's it's gorgeous. So she she loan me a thousand bucks to buy hasselblad five hundred c at the local camera store and then i paid that off in six months. I had a job. I just you know worked and paid that down. And then she'll another thousand or fifteen hundred or she you know. i think there are three or four bank loans. From the time. I was sixteen to when i was eighteen. That you know we co-signed on and help me by the ahead. Then so i started with the hassle. But then i got a couple of sun. Pack five fifty five lashes And then got the thirty millimeter fish for the hasselblad. Which was the coveted skate. Photo lens at the time still is one of the most gorgeous lenses the world but it was it was kinda crazy to spend you know four thousand bucks or whatever it costs lens and then put it in six inches from a skateboarder fringe element to that thing is not inexpensive to replace. No thank thank god at that point in time i was not shooting the way i shoot now i if i had one tomorrow i wouldn't shoot it the same way i shoot the cannon But but now i shoot. I'm going to cannon five d mark for. I love cannon. That's been the the go-to i've tried. I've tried to sony a seven for a minute. I couldn't get on board with the mirrorless thing. It didn't feel right hand. I never liked the interface. Like nothing against sony but i. I tried to kind of adapt i thought. Oh these are the new cameras that people are using this full frame. And i can play with this and and i did it for a year and i went back so on the the five d mark four now at the eight to fifteen in a whole bunch of those young new speed lights to cheap and they're great and they can get smashed and because even more than my camera gets hit. My flashes get. Hit those those breaks and how many flesh will use any shoot them set up in different locations. Yeah usually most of the time these days. I really kinda go with one hand held. Because i'm shooting when you showed the slow shutter like you can get away with that usually wanted to. I have three I but i always find when i try to set up more than two flashes. I don't like what it was i. i don't like over lighting. it's just like i'm not good at it. I don't know i'd rather have less than more. You know and the. I'm always happy with what i'll set up three and then i'll turn one off and then i might even turn the second one off and then all the sudden i'm back to one and i'm like i like that better data all of a sudden. Yeah i think that's an anchor to it. Sure that's something that brian government. Who's one of the most the best game of all time he. When i was a kid i was emailing him all the time. Asking him for critiques stuff and he gave me the best piece of advice about flashes. He said you don't use flashes the light something up use a flash to create shadows on that thought they like blew my mind when i was twenty. I was like holy shit. Yes that is exactly what you do. And that has stuck with me forever. Yeah that's exactly what you take. The can't you don't put it on the camera you hold off to the that was actually a very very very brilliant piece of advice. That was very short and sweet. I like that. I've never heard it's true. That's great so concise. And i give it to so many people now they're asking me how to shoot with flash and i'm just like not to light the photo to create shadows because there's so many ways you can think about that and then you realize oh my god. Yeah it's like and also that's where you create the drama like the drama comes with a shadow. There's nothing dramatic when you can see everything. There's drama when there's some mystery out there and that's kinda i. I'm a bit dramatic. I guess you find photographing flat. Art work yes. You want a nice just a just a wall of light in you know shadows no but when you taking pictures you want shadows and when you have too much light at hand it's it's hard to you kinda fight the urge to overlap. Sometimes you know. It's because you're like. Oh i can get this even and perfect and then you're like yeah but that's not what i do i. I'm not good at perfect. I'm good at weird lumpy and just like dirty. So that's why studio photo stuff has always been interesting for me. I always end up just starting with a bunch of lights taking them away. Until i have something kind of weird that i like. Let me let me is one quick question before we wrap up in Let me thoughts and we talked a little bit about earlier. But do you think it's possible to create good work. You know in the skate scene. If you're not part of the skate world. I mean somebody just drop in and make notable work. I mean yeah. I don't want to say there's no chance that you could do that. Because i think if you love and appreciate an obsess over something enough you can make great photos of it like i think that you know. Most of the best sports photos were shot by. People who i'm fairly competent could dunk a basketball. Or score a touchdown so i. I think that it's possible. I think it's rare though because because of the nature skating it doesn't have the giants fan base following of people who don't actually do it like other sports do so it's rare to find people that are going to be shooting could skate photos. That don't actually skate or haven't at one point actually skated A lot of older scale tigers don't state much anymore but they spent twenty five years of their life doing it in. It's also just the nature of the culture is like you just have to know like no one's gonna kinda hold your hand and walk you through it you know. It's getting better and getting more inclusive in that way but for a long time. No one's going to help you understand it. The only way you can really understand it is just to have done it so to jump into it. You know without that is it's just you're not gonna get the same result i don't think and and i would love to see a world where there will be more people who don't actually shoot could scapegoat and i've met people who have have done you know some decent work that don't actually skate. But i think it's still kind of at the point where you do have to do it to to understand it right. This is one thing you said earlier. On and i just wanna go back on. I think it's important for people to note a listens to note that you mentioned one point that you had yourself a steady job which meant that. You didn't have to use your cameras to earn a living and at kept you cameras fresh for the work. You want to do to take the pictures you want to do. And i i. I've known a lot of photographers who basically learned to hate photography to pay their bills as as a photographer's glamorous as it sounds doing a lot of stuff they really did not wanna do. They really hated and everything else in the business end of it. So i i think one of the takeaways. Is that if you are a photographer and you have a passion for something. Be be a skating or sports landscape or anything of that sort and you feel kinda cheated because your name up in lights and you're not earning a living at it. The bottom line is it's still something that you love doing. And that's what he's all about. I it's something that becomes a passion for you And it becomes very personal so again if you're not earning a living from it it's okay. You're still doing something that you love to do in a lot of people niven get to do that and you might even be you know might even be making better work because of that and so so love and appreciate it so mad. If people wanna see more of your work where can they go to most of my stuff. I post on instagram at pricy. Hot like a icy hot but with my last name. Price and then Mk price my website. Mk price photo. Dot com. I believe is my website and i don't update it that often but it has you know kind of a base idea of what i do. But but yeah. I'm mostly a mini instagram kid. These days what about golden hour is tell us a little bit about that so yeah golden arrows available. We have three issues. We've put out so far. Golden hour dot online is the website where you can find that and we have a. We're about to put a three pack up where you get a special little box with all three of them in. Just add golden hour. Skateboarding is the instagram for that as well One thing i wanted to say before we cut out is I just wanted to shout out being h because i got some of my earliest camera gear from being h and i wasn't able to say that earlier so getting asked to come on. The show is a big deal for childhood me and being played a huge role in you know in in my career just kind of like my photo life and that's not i don't you know not trying to be corny or anything but it really is. We thank you. Thank you so much. We appreciate really well. Grandma you please send our love to your grandma please. She's she's gonna love this. Actually i'll be like. Hey remember that place where all those. We got that loan money and we gave it to them. Kept me on this podcast. Did real good the proud of him. He's doing okay. He's all right. Thank you guys so much appreciate it. That's great okay. If you'd like to get a heads up the moment. A nubian h photography. Podcast goes live. It is just so easy. All you have to do is head on over to ever. You get your podcast type b. n. h. photography podcasts surprise into the search field. And you are part of the family. You can also find this on. The bean explored a website in on the being h photography. Podcast facebook page. That said my name. Alan white and on behalf of john harris and jason tables. Thank you so so so much for tuning into day.

Matt thrasher transworld magin Alan white thrasher magazine lenzi dave swift robin leach Time warner aol Warren john portland jason arizona la basketball
The Book ExistsJoan Liftin, Minor Matters Books, and The Unconcerned Photographer

B&H Photography Podcast

1:11:59 hr | 8 months ago

The Book ExistsJoan Liftin, Minor Matters Books, and The Unconcerned Photographer

"You're listening to h photography podcast for over forty years. Being H has been the professional source for photography video audio and more for your favorite gear news and reviews visit us be an H. dot com or download the beach APP to your iphone or android device. Now, here's your host Alan White screenings, and welcome to the beenish photography podcast. Today, we welcome to the program photographer and editor John Lifton and Michelle done marsh founder and publisher of minor matters. Books. We're GONNA be talking with each of them about their individual projects, but we're also going to discuss the person that brings them together. The late Photography Charles Harbored Joan of course was married to Charles and was his collaborator Michelle recently published a book of Charles Work that includes hobbits, thoughts on photography and art in general, which we're GONNA be talking about shortly we also plan on discussing the unique business model that mind matters employees to create their beautiful catalog photography books. John Lifton has worked as a photographer photo book editor, and Teacher, she's the author of three photo books drive ins in two thousand and four Marseilles in two, thousand fifteen and a tears in two thousand eighteen lifting was chair the documentary program at the International Center of otographer from Nineteen Eighty eight to two thousand and the director. Of Magnum photos library. She's edited numerous books including Mary Ellen Marks Falkland Road and Charles Harvard's departures and arrivals in two thousand, seventeen her was acquired by the center of creative photography in Tucson Arizona welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Okay. Now, L. Michelle Marsh knows from book publishing. Before starting minor matters, she was a co publisher of aperture and deputy. Director of the Aperture Foundation. She was also the senior editor of art and design and is the former executive director at the photographic center. Northwest, Seattle Michelle has also curated a number of significant exhibitions, including Jim, Marshall's Rolling Stones Nineteen hundred seventy. He's also the topic of a recent episode. We did love his work here I am Lisa. Leone at the Bronx Museum and Eugene Richards. Enduring Freedom at the photographic center northwest. We welcome both of you. Let's talk with Joan and talk about your book water for two years from two thousand eighteen and they're going to Segue to talk about Charles Harbert and his new book from Minor. Matters. To Joan would, if it tears it, it's quite poetic title and the book is a memoir of photographs from a lifetime of work and travel partnership head you come up with that title. Stolen from. My grandson. Storing. I'd like to. Ask. The book really was originally called runaway. And it came out of requests from Adriana Attorney of his your. Adriana had asked for. A portfolio and I forgot about it all till the deadline came. And I thought I'm just not going to swipe this I'm going to pick out your photograph said to. That I. Really Love. A very personal and I did it quickly I picked out about. Thirty five. She ran it and then I did like I felt that there was no subject tying them together except the my point of view. So Adriana suggestion I did. Chestnut a ride. Pair of effort to about it. So I wrote a paragraph about. Eight years old or nine years old I wanted to my greatest desire was to become a. Teen lex of movies about runaways and she published it and then I liked it. So I, made. A personal handmade book of the pictures. But it wasn't enough pitches. It was only fifty pages so I couldn't get a book out of it and I put it away. That was about ten years ago. So in a way switch forward. Chali died. In two thousand fifteen and the family came over question my apartment. And we will altogether and Jasper who is about twenty at the time is an artist and he was showing a picture and when everybody left later he gave me the picture he drawn. And what it was was A. Kind of cartoonish. Drawing of himself dream drinking large less of water and an even larger to a tear falling down his eye and he wrote underneath. Water for two years. Don't dry up out there. Any spelled the are dra. It was perfect. It was just. So much. But I N. I put it away and then sometime later I realized. That that was title. I could use that as a title of a memoir which I had been thinking about since since runaway. So I decided that I would do much of the same pictures with an additional fifty or so. Call. It water for two years and the book would be about. Personal work. And trips I had taken. Important trips to me that I had taken either with or without Charlie. The point was that I end the runaway added a paragraph to run away. Intro in which I said that although I was a runaway I was very lucky in my life because. I was always very happy to come back to the people that are loved. Too, long story. What are you? What is it the this idea of of running away or being away in traveling that that is so tied to photography mean do you do they go hand in hand? into it for that reason, but it's it happens to be a perfect profession I would wanna be runaways, right? but there is something about you know not just tourists but photographers when they are in a new place when they're on the road or even you know photos from airplanes and cars, it just seems that you want to pick up your camera. When you're out there you know it's really a part and parcel. When you become very familiar stranded I mean I'm New Yorker and it's hard for me to do any extended shooting in. New York. Is always the adventure and excitement of seeing something new I mean that was like my book Marseille. I. I. Love France. I lived there in my early twenties for a couple of years but I never wanted to Paris because everybody had shut Paris. And Marseille felt more like we're grown up which was Brooklyn. I mean. It was a much routier town. Right about this. Yeah I I grew up in Brooklyn and I've never heard anybody compare. Brooklyn to say that this I'm going to have to. Pay. No okay. So, you. You'll find it I. Mean it's a lot of hustling. A. It's very integrated. It's it's one of the most integrated if not the most integrated city in your. Did they did they have candy stores and Italian Social Clubs? That's what I'm curious about because we're comparing to Brooklyn but we'll get back to coin. Well. This was. Good, that's that is the biggest ethnic group in Marseilles. A. Of Immigrants Is Italians Oh. Okay. All right. Now, I'm starting to put the pieces together. Okay. Now make sense. So Jones after the the the moment where you realize you had a title and you wanted to expand the book. How did the editing process change I mean were you looking for? A more comprehensive view or or look back did you choose photos that you might not have otherwise chosen and how that process worked? Very. Well Yet goes to the heart at editing and basically I, don't own my living as Petar I don't know of anybody does anymore. But. I do earn my living editing books and teaching. So for me, this was going to be a very personal book. A now you can't really do a memoir. I mean I didn't commando idea I wasn't born with a camera in my hand that I didn't start photographing till. I was thirty over thirty. I was a dancer before I had to find some form for the book. And Since I started with a text liked being a runaway because it goes on for two pages in it. It really said what I wanted to say. I decided that I would try to trips that important to me. For example, including one that I didn't go on which was to. Mississippi. To me because I didn't go on and that was during the civil rights days and I was afraid to go Mississippi. The other trips were more. Vodka tive in different ways. So I had an idea of what I wanted to do in the Fed of pitches were in the chips that I enjoyed more. It wasn't just the benefit to they were I had made them. On. It wasn't journalism. It is. An expression of my response to place and my. My imagination that was fired up by the place. I have a question for you and you're talking about editing photographs. They usually do with thirty five photographs at the end that went into the into the book. Thirty five went into the runaway book and Okay Pages Within I. Don't know how many. Hitches exactly are in. One of the book is like one, hundred, thirty, one, hundred, thirty, five pages. So it more than than. In A more than doubled in size. Teas my question, you talking about two things we're talking about photographs and we're also talking about stories and background stories and little vignettes that went in to the photograph that may or may not be obvious to it and I think one of the things that people have problems with our own including myself comes to editing our own work in particular and perhaps even somebody else's were cool. We're close to is that you often blur the quality the photograph to the story that went along with it. I learned early on that I have some pictures of such a great story beyond this picture. The picture isn't that great. Without the story, it's it's nothing just the fact that you got the picture might be great but that the picture is in good itself, you're talking equal value her between the story in the photograph and when you're editing, did you have a hard time deciding is the story or is this photograph or is it not matter in this case? Decades really to the harder I don't edited story. I tell my students don't think of story and don't think of subject. And of editing in I told them to edit out. That way they'll see what the narrative of their work is. There's a difference which is story because the story has A. has is prone to exactly what you're talking about that. You pick less good pictures. So I, edit I for the pictures that I like now. There were trips. I've made many trips in my life a photographic trips I work for the United Nations for whereas UNICEF's Darker and a photo editor and. So I've had a lot of trips. It was that I looked at what the trips were right and in some of them. The shooting was much more lyrical. and. Much more personal. It didn't matter where I went. It mattered what the pictures look like. So, it wasn't to fill a story need. Less the book isn't just about. Going on trips it's also about coming home. So there's a lot of family pictures in the book. Let me backtrack for a minute. I was MAGNA's librarian in New York. And It was no way. That I was tempted to compete with them generalists decree or with my husband journalistic. Some why were always started out being more intimate. Family to start with. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's sort of my working. How I work on my own work. Now. I get this I find, it's hard to sometimes verbalize these kind of things I put together projects that were deeply personal to me and I find I have it's a hard thing to try to separate. You know makes it interesting photograph in warriors story fit into it what's the what's better but you didn't you didn't answer it and it's kind of a hard thing and ultimately it's just it's what you feel. I think and you have to go by Gut. It's very good. Let's could also what happens? If, you pick by story, you start justifying you picking just what you said. was that the you're justifying the use of that picture because if it's a storyline, I try not to do that because some of the pictures are used. To fit into the TRIPS, have nothing to do basically would replace it may be. It may be a landscape or it could be an extraction or could be something else just. The picture is interesting to me. The frame is is good. It's evocative and I can use it to change the pace and as contrast to The money pictures of okay. This is the port. Is Ugly Fish in the fish market out real close up of the face. One of the things that struck me about looking at the photographs is that I never would have had my camera at the ready for many of those pictures there fleeting moments and the feeling I had on for a lot of these images is the same kind of feeling I get say when I'm in a car or on a train I'm looking out the window passing by even just walking quickly down the street I see a photograph, but it's gone real fast moving I don't have time to catch it. It seems a lot of these pictures were those moments that were actually caught. In it struck me many times. That's that's one I mean you really described the press beautifully. That's exactly what a master. Spontaneous response to things that I can trust in myself even if I don't even have the picture. Let's say reveals something negative about me or it's not exactly the kind of frame. I really like if the picture has energy I know that it's right. I have many rich wonderful to anti your questions, the really wonderful questions. Okay thank you. Good answers to doing good John. This is my question links back a little bit to what you said earlier about about the book, which is the subject or cohesive theme linking them is just your point of view. And I guess this question I'll throw toward Michelle a bit but it release are both of you I mean is there is there some kind of formula that dictates otherwise when you're thinking about publishing a book I mean is is a cohesive theme whatever it happens to be something that publishers kind of want because just therefore a little easier to. The package and sell. A good. It's a good question and I think the answer really depends on who the publisher is because different different publishers are looking for a different kind of market penetration. So What for instance works at Chronicle or what? What Abrams are Abigail may be looking for might be quite different than what aperture or wider matters or Chris Grades Projects. and. So in some of those cases, particularly with smaller independent publishers, you find people the. Editors or heads of those presses leaning towards personal vision I would say and and as you are looking to move a larger quantity of books into the marketplace, sometimes that moves lord toward a definable. Face that you can quantify that there might be an audience out there in the world who wouldn't catch. I mean I guess in the case of the publishing we're talking about here. The the point of view is the the cohesive theme right I mean that that's The people are after. I assume you know the familiarity with the artist makes a big difference but As you as you put your mission statement there Michelle, no turn people onto new work and lesser known workers is part of the fun so. Very much. So I think Damiani who Joan has worked with published Charlie's departures and arrivals. Is One of those publishers that has really they also published my friend Lisa crazy. They've they've done a nice job as many publishers have of of really making space for books that are about personal point of view. And and bringing up departures and arrivals tone. Can we talk a bit about maybe the process of editing that and and the collaboration aspect compared to I mean you've collaborated with many photographers but in this case with Charles comparing it to perhaps water for tears in that process. Anything in your comments. Sure. Will you design was your onto Komo? Who is just at the terrific? and. Charlene made a created of about a hundred eighty pictures. But. We told him that we couldn't work with him there. Which is which she swallowed and he undisturbed completely because. You can work with you can work with one person, but you can't have a committee of three people. and. What usually happens if photographers there when the designer and the editor are together. the photographer is usually crystal at the pictures that you're putting to the side, and then they're all, they're all there step, show all the all babies that their loved. It are not going into the book is going to be on their minds and with Chali. He knew that. This would be true. because. He's also a teacher. He knows how it works a little bit. So I asked him to either he worked with your lawn. or I work with your line to, and then we would show him the work every two weeks so that he could have all the wanted at that point but not during the process. So Soon I'm sorry. Good. What are you going to ask? Was She happy with that? How do? These two week intervals how did he take it because again I've been on that in a few of those happier and it's it's it's it's very humbling and it puts you to the challenge of you know. Exactly. How much you trust people. Who? Was a real professional. And he also I mean, you wrote about this in back of the book. that. He had a lot of trust in me and your line Danny also. That he had the complete. Final Word on everything. That makes a difference. So there are. Two reeks a but we basically. Didn't joy was a wonderful editor for somebody. Else's work was great editor for his own work when but not necessarily putting together a book like departures, arrivals or himself. At the at the end of the project, look at it and go you did it right? Good job you're. Actually I mean this sound self serving, but it is absolutely thrilled with what onto an I did. Okay you felt really seen. And many of the children that we of his that we put out at I went back in as we did the book, it was a process about media in your Rhonda also working with. was his work plus Tony was really quite a beautiful photographer. The work was stunning. It was. Delicious project basically wealth by Joe. And it was. A different concerns. I mean, for example, departures arrivals starts. A section on America in the Second Section is a section on Mexico. And the point of that was that. Charlie has had. A long standing. Hostility to some of the things that goes on in. America. So many of the pictures were critical of the states. In political situations in so on all these would not spelled out generic kind of look at the country, and then we wanted to follow it a picture and he had the pictures. It's the picture that gave us the ideas for the sections not that we made sections out of state. So the next section was Mexico which Charlie loved he was he just loved the pace of life. They're a loved the. Street lives he loved everything everything. It was a much more humanistic society where everything out on the street. So we followed. The First Section with the Second Section you had a view of his political and emotional abuse of two different societies and that just came out of the work itself. It wasn't like it was imposed on it. so He's don't seen by us. And it was ever photo that was that he didn't choose initially that you might have went back and said, Hey, what about this one I mean from? Then I had trouble with Rhonda didn't. And prior to hit that that I, you know group of photos that were pulled out the by him to to make this election from. Did you think did you offer an idea on? You know what? You don't even include this that I love some. Sure, all the time all the time. Did you guys always talk about photography I mean what was always hitting conversation We had lots. We'd like to talk about it. He was extremely. Entertaining and interesting ran. A certainly feels that way I can say Maybe we can talk a little bit about this kind of change that that brought the came to photography or came to photojournalism along with the changes of the sixties. Did he consider it new and forward thinking or even was it a bit of a return to an older photography where where injecting the personal point of view in a in a in a way or a metaphor of way was was more important than the quote unquote the story itself Oh that's absolutely description of what happened to joy is that he was an extremely magnum will, in fact, he was president of a twice. and. He was an extremely successful photojournalist A. Really had a wonderfully editorial mind that he could do a narrative or a story very, very well but he felt, and this was very strong him that the. In seventy four, hundred by seventy, five well. One. Thing happened to him that summed up what he'd been feeling for awhile, which was that he went to cover. A demonstration for I think it was to look a magazine in new haven and it was supposed to be the students and Look felt that there was going to be real trouble at this. Demonstration. It was being part by the media as said, this was gonna be violent or something. So, he went down there he. Registered in hotel the Sheridan at the same time the three guys with DC plates in Washington were came in and obviously government guys. Who signed up for the short and also the next day Demonstration went on was very peaceful and Lo, and behold three guys burst a on the fringes of it just as hippies with the hair the short hair covered with. handkerchiefs, they were pushing people around and so on. So it was a demonstration that they were aiming at destroying and and so on and that kind of summed up as a metaphor what he'd been feeling about working for the media for quite a while that stories were preplanned I mean they they didn't look didn't know this was going to happen but this is what was happening events was being staged and so he stopped being a photo journalist and he writes about it in the departures and arrivals he started teach to earn a living Eastern photograph, but all his photography began to do he said, he wasn't going to the kings and Queens anymore who is GonNa do. Like the picture, one of the pictures in Michele's. Book. Thank close on Sunday morning in. Brooklyn. Was Her disillusionment though that that came with this or did it maybe spark a my region I? Knew. What did you go it? A disillusion disillusion. Most Yes. Very much. But he wasn't. He wasn't a babe in the woods you know what? It was a complete. Disillusion with with the media. And the use to which pictures. Are and in fact, that's what the book that, Michelle. So wonderfully, published, which is a speeches calling himself. The unconcerned talker he wasn't going to be concerned wasn't going to be told what to be concerned about. That's a perfect segue Michelle. Taking too much airtime unless word. which was I always tell my students said Gianluca. someone complained about his movies deemed saying You don't have a beginning middle and an end for your movies I love your movies but you don't have a beginning middle in an anti movies and go dot said, yes I do but not necessarily in that order. We I mean, the viewer has to do some work to that's the way. lutely absolutely I mean that is one of. One of my favorite quotes from for minor wait was that really the viewer. Is responsible for completing the photographs and as someone who is not a photographer for me those words became extremely important because it meant that I had a real place in the medium, a legitimate place in the radio and as someone who is not making pictures but who professionally has been viewing them for the last twenty five years that's a really good point. Yeah. I I mean Eh Tiger for but as a viewer before we're all viewers I guess before photographer as we wanNA. I think we we have to feel that place to kind of take the next steps. Maybe let's talk a bit about the unconcern photographer and and maybe how you first became aware of of this as a possible book Michelle and and and the essay itself and Absolutely am back for just a moment to say that I actually met Charlie. In. The Early Ninety S Joan. I was a student at Bard College and he occasionally. Photographed their end. I didn't know who Charlie was. I was working as an intern in the publications office and he was a sweet little guy and I always enjoyed interacting with him when he came into the office since when I moved to New York City in was in graduate school and started working at aperture I saw this poster for a project that aperture had done magnum Paris and the credit to the photograph on that poster was Charles Herbert and I kind of stopped wait at that sweet guy was so unassuming in. Good for laugh he he's important. and. That sort of became a a theme throughout my by early years at apertures is realizing how many incredible people I was having the opportunity to to encounter and. I reconnected with Charlie and met Joan for the first time in two thousand and we'd actually I was working at chronicle I proposed a book with Charlie there and soon we stayed in touch on and off. In fact Charleen in June. What me stay in their apartments early in the days of minor matters. David. David. Hilliers look was actually edited in Charlene Jones apartments and we thought we were surrounded by good good energy. By being being in that space so I read a travelogue. Probably sometime maybe ten years ago and there were some what to me were sir. About photography that Charlie was expressing their and. Late, last year I was looking doing research online and I came across a transcript of the seach that he had given in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy. And I saw in it. The origins of many of the points that he went onto explorer and discuss further in trouble on. And I was very excited and eye contact Jones said has this been published in the world? would be possible for, US to. Honest together that. took me to try new things through minor matters. I was considering whether or not. We have space at what used to be a talk show, which was do this ring the New York. And realizing that none of our new books would be imprint. If in fact, we were going to be at art fair, and so I was trying to think of something that I could do relatively quickly that we might be able to have available as any project. And so that was that was the beginning point I contacted Joan. Late, December maybe January and me began the dialogue that resulted in this book of course, in spite of the fact that there was no no art fair and the cancellation of many other. Opportunities for us to gather together. and. What was it? What was it struck you about the essay itself or the talk itself something I always imagined that it has to be something that makes it relevant to the moment to moment now that that maybe was was. Ahead of its time, is that fair to say there's so much language that Charlie used. That was ahead of its time that was relevant to its time but but that really is it. It sounds very cliche to say timeless but really is timeless. Paragraph that's on the Becker. The book is one that is most often quoted out of context, which is Charlie saying photography is not art. It's really easy to just drop that line somewhere ends. You will get very vehement responses both in supported that statement and against that statement but. The language of this siege. Really Explores. That idea and backs up where that statement. Came from for him, I think in addition to that in reading it. So much of what he is talking about in terms of concern about American politics decline of media. Why perhaps media is in decline. And yet the challenges within that. So much of that felt like he was describing what was happening right now and Because I believe the. Knowing history is important the opportunity to not take texts that was written today. But in fact, take a text that was written fifty years ago to perhaps mirror back to photography mirror back to you American public. This is the first time we've been here. Can we learn from this do better? On that same line amid always struck me that you know almost fifty years to the day of Kent State. We had a parallel thing going on here where you national guardsmen attacking, you know citizens and it's almost fifty years to the day an I remember that I was in school of visualize when all that was going on. I WANNA touch on that from a generational standpoint because this was certainly something Joan jump in here the this was something that came up. In lovely ways in our conversations. I feel enormously privileged that I have worked with many people and who. Who who were far more Advanced than I was and when you're working together in the passionate. Deep Community of photography you don't really stop and look around and say, is that person eighty or sixty order thirty you're working together. And so it's not something that I really thought about and at the same time John were having conversations about things I wasn't born when Charlie gave his speech. so much as like connect to much what's in it my experience in fact, different than Jones experience or Charlie's experience or perhaps. Jon Allen your experience and so being able to say. I, didn't live this. Yet it still matters and I'm bringing information from by viewpoint and this generation and To these words and we can have we can have a conversation about it and we're not going to necessarily interpret everything the same way and that's okay. I think one of the good things about looking back on things in any way you know like. We're living through electric times right now I'm using very gentle were to. Buy Electric Times you know but the truth matter is we're we're not going to really understand everything that is happening today for another fifty years because you need time for all of this stuff to settle down and. All of the stories to come forward and perspectives, and you need a little bit on site you know making. History history happens it by the moment. Okay. But it takes decades I think understand exactly what happened it's the same thing. Absolutely I think to go back to your initial question, which was what what did I read in this that really resonated it it's that. It's understanding that part of what was resonating for me now. is the reality of what happens is years ago. and seeing those parallels. Ask, real quickly, than about the photos that were included because it clearly because this is not a quote unquote, a photo book but photos are part of it. How did you make that selection? Show. We have to get into some of the fun of what has been really one of the richest dialogues for me throughout the last six months has been the conversation that I've had with Joan. So I'm just going to start out by saying that my original intention was not to have any photographs with this. My original intention was that this would be an essay book. and. Part of that was guided by the decision to try out a book print on demand, and because the reproduction of photographs is something that's incredibly important to me. It's something that was taught to me when I was at aperture and that I definitely hold in high regard in what we do reminder matters. If I couldn't reproduce photographs in the best way I know how I would rather not reproduce rafts. Jones. Jones said what did you say? You have to have photographs Michelle. He's dog offer. I was an intellectual no question but. And it doesn't matter so much. I certainly agree with Michelle about the reproduction at how important it is in a book but Ah Book at the speech. By a photographer I. mean the way you you don't know the qualities togr. Unless she some pictures even. The photographs are not reduced that well there, and you can still see what he was doing what the photograph they're good enough that they'll. They'll do. They'll do it was important. To. Show the quality of his work even though was only four pictures in cover that was enough I failed but that it was important to put them in and Michelle is very giving on the question. And we tested, but we had our rocks about it. We test it out what they would look like we did a of the with some of the images to see what the reproduction quality could be like and Joan if. I. Remember Correctly, you also chose pictures that we knew would would seek. Care within exactly within within this kind of approaching environment. Yeah. Not Certainly not the more complex of jars pictures, but the ones that were very. Powerful. Well, it was an interesting scenario also because Joan. Joan and I are. Both are both editors We have both been involved in the editing photography books, and in the sequencing of photography books, we both have strong opinions To put it mildly and. and. So this really. An Joan I'm just going to dive in here. And you can add whatever you feel comfortable adding but you know. There were at least two moments where. We we both had expressed something that was very important to us that. The. Possibility of this book existing online. And saying, I can't I don't see how I can move forward if we can't resolve For both of us and the fact that and I think this is particularly important in these electric times we're living in the fact that we neither of US gave up. And even though we bounce up very close to what felt like a wall we found we found a way we found a way forward. We found a way to to work together and. The book exists and so that that dialogue to me, I just I just WanNa. Thank Joan in this public, forum. For continuing to engage in that dialogue in in expressing your viewpoint. What also being open to hearing mine Yes I think the a Michelle took issue with. About three or four sentences at most my right Michelle. the chief Feld. Racist. Now, I felt they were language of the time. That we would not use today in discussing underrepresented populations immigrated description run our. Question was. An people can read it for themselves. It was. Sir. It it's like it's like. Way You refer. Hold my granddaughter I I should say people of Color now, for example, and ways of referring to people and I'm not talking about racist episodes at all I'm talking about the way that the community of people sharing language referred to people. So having those kinds of questions but we came to A. a solution which was that Michelle would not cut. Does were doubt. jollies speech would live as given. And that was my sticking point and she suggested which I agree with. That was terrific solution that you would put in editor's note at the back of the book saying her feelings were. So we moved on and I I think it was Michelle's suggesting that we do that which was wonderful because I did want the book ad I think that the speech speaks for itself and You can see man behind the speech very clearly. Okay, we're GONNA take a short break. Go down drop few quarters in the meter and come back with show and Joan and talk about minor matters and the unconcerned photographer and shawls. Harvick stay tuned. We hope you're enjoying this edition of the B and h photography podcast. The best way to support the show is by subscribing on apple podcast, Google podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for links to gear and more information. Today's guests. Check out the show notes and your podcast APP or visit our homepage on the beach explorer website and join the B. N. H. Photography podcast facebook group, and now back to the show. Okay, we are back minor matters has published books by pull Burger India, deal David, Hilliard, and many other photographers. Their goal is to highlight underrepresented voices in contemporary art recognizing that significant or. Stay on the fringes without the support of a community, the books are funded by pre sales and everyone who buys a book in Pre sale is listed as a co publisher as an interesting twist. She'll had you come up with this method. This is kind of novel. Well. It really started with seeing in the early issues of aperture, all of the subscribers named in the back of the magazine. And I had a couple of issues from the nineteen fifties and I was so fascinated with seeing that for instance, for being Berlin was a subscriber to aperture. And again, we talked a little bit about history I loved. That record. I. Loved knowing that this person had a moment in time when very few people knew about this publication had chosen to the part of it and at the time I I'd been with aperture for many years. I had worked with chronicle and I, was noticing and in the early two thousands that. There were a lot of projects that were not finding their way to publishers and there were publishers who are coming to me saying, I'm interested in the photographers that you think. Are Important and should be published and photographers who of course, talk I always want books but we weren't quite meeting in the middle in terms of the quality of the reproduction of the book and meeting the demands of the marketplace in how expensive to produce Tarbey Bucks. So I started thinking about the aspects that I could do myself. And what parts of the food chain of publishing we might be able to think about in a slightly different way and again turning to history noting that Weston and ansel Adams. Had often said that they were going to do a publication or said they were going to do portfolio and they sold those things in advance as a way of generating the capital to then produce the portfolio thought well, why can't we do that with books and? Amazon had made it comfortable for people to buy online, and so that was really the point of origin. I wanted there were books I wanted to own that I couldn't get any other publisher to make is really short answer and and so we came up with this model of five hundred pre-sales results in about twenty five thousand dollars and keeping a book at fifty dollar price point which fell accessible. That was important and one of the key elements to continuing to be your today to talk to you about it is that I realized that in addition to being publishing company this needed to be an ecommerce business, which was something I knew nothing about. And so I partner with a former student of Mine Steve Macintyre who's a web APP developer and thanks to his expertise we managed to launch and have published twenty. So how many and when you put out A. Book that you want to go into production with WHO is the average person who is who's bonding into this and how long's it take you to hit five hundred pre-sales. That's a great question. So when I developed the business plan made sort of Burkan audiences for books down into collectors, fellow creatives, fellow photographers, and artists, friends, and family, and then of course, this sort of mysterious elusive bucket going back to what we were talking about earlier is there a is this a theme? Is there subject matter that is going to draw another audience of interest and when we first launched, we really followed a lot of traditional book-publishing publishing. So we would give a book, a six month, lyft sell. What we learned in the online environment is that six months is incredibly long time. It's hard to sustain people's interest and so we. moved to a three-month pre-sales period, we often find within the first month whether or not there series interest for book tune forward. And what kind of curiosity us if I may ask, and maybe this is a hard thing to do Obviously a pile of photograph shows up on your desk and you're going to know whether you like them or not. But you have any certain preconditions for a a a book topic. Well I. I had worked in publishing for some time before starting this. So I think that's Also very important is is having words at aperture as a designer having worked at chronicle as an editor. Working freelance with a number of museums I had seen. Different Successes and challenges in publishing and when we started. We have no idea if if any of these books would move forward when we were developing our business plan and at one point talking to potential investors, which we did not s not around we ended up going. But people kept saying, well, what's your exit strategy and I was like I I don't know I don't want to fail why would I have an exit strategy and? Would they really met was you know what point would you sell the business I said well, I don't WanNa do that either unite were in agreement on that, and so we looked at each other and said, well, how about if we launch ten books and none of them? Make it to Prince. then. This idea doesn't work. And we both felt like that was a good. That was a good plan. We would launch ten books and. In. Our first five books we produce three of five. So. There's no. There's no magic formula and I think it's important to remember that every publisher when they commit to a book wants that book to succeed. A little more public when our books don't find their audience did you have any Books that went out there and say you got maybe two hundred pre sales and it was coming in on the deadline and then. Either the photographer somebody a hell within just bought whatever books were needed to hit the profile hundred number. You know that's a really that's a really good questions. So because I have worked in the non profit space for a long time and did a lot of fundraising and we actually put into our contract that it is at our discretion whether or not we accept funding from. Outside parties and from the photographer because. One of the important elements of our transparency about our process is meeting. So many photographers who have taken second mortgages on their houses who've taken out bank loans in order to fund projects sure and it's very difficult to make that money back and and so it's really important to us that we not only were not making books just for our ego or for the ego of the of the Tarver we really do believe. That if something is GonNa find its way forward is a book which is an expensive investment that that there's that there's a village behind it that there's a community behind it. So it's not simply about how to get the dollars together. It's also about demonstrating that there's an audience. Now with that being said, have there Ben exceptions absolutely needed a book with with Adrian Chester and we sold I, think one, hundred, fifty copies and The printer who had done a test run with. When I contacted them, I said I'm sorry this is not moving forward. The other books are moving forward and the printer was so committed to that project, which was about Adrian's experience of. Telling friends that he had been diagnosed with AIDS. That they discounted the other books we were printing to the exact dollar amount that would allow us to print that book row. Okay. It's committal. Investment, we decided to accept. And that's the you're talking about. That's wonderful. A couple of quick questions if I may of the the kind of groups that you described earlier family and friends, other artists collectors. And then you know the the hopeful other other group what group surprised you the most in terms of ponying up money. As a way to say it is there anything that surprised you when it came to who was investing at least early on I guess investing is the right word, but maybe it is A. Contributing. Yeah. Well, we do see it as an investment I mean we. I have been I've always loved publishing. I thought the only way you could be in publishing was to be a writer and so. I've always wanted to be a part of of making books and I think when you see your name in a book, even if you're not the author of the book when you see your name in a book, it's a pretty exciting moment and so one of the reasons we recognize co-publishers by naming them is to give them that sense that they are in fact, a part of something and I say, what was the most surprising to me two things wine? And, of course, this is being a book person and not really thinking about how the Internet works. We almost immediately started getting inquiries from. International buyers individuals who had. Learned about a book wanted to buy it and we had no international shipping set up on our website. Had, because we didn't think that that would be a thing and and so that there was interest internationally that somehow people had heard of us was was exciting and surprising to me, and we also relatively early on within the first year. Had people coming to us saying look I just WanNa. Commit to everything you do. I don't WanNA miss a deadline. I. Don't WanNa Miss One of your titles come up with a way that I can just have every book and so our legacy publisher program is people who commit in advance to every book we launch and their credit card numbers on file and we have now twenty people in that program that was not a program we initiated that was a program that our audience audience came to us and said Solve this problem Really. Interesting. I mean, it's this kind of hybrid between you know a a membership. At a public radio station or a Gofundme, mean all these kind of things get together and then of course, as you mentioned, there is this pride of being part of the process. It's it's really wonderful. Much. So yeah, and what stage do you what stage of the designed you present it to the public or the public, really a to make their decision? Yeah that's a great question. So for me again, having having worked in Book Publishing Michael is to present everything that would be in a traditional catalog page that would go out to bookstores so that means knowing the trim size knowing the page count having an approximate number of images having come her having a rough design in friends that show with the book is going to look like and so there's an enormous amount of sweat equity that goes into re project and I sometimes question how important that is to the public. I think the public often looks at a project and says, I'm interested in this photographer or author I'm interested in this work and would likely commit. Without all of that effort. But that that effort for me as Joan was discussing earlier that editing sequencing conception of what the book will be. The bulkiness of the book is really important and so we we get through the approval of. All of those details of four. Before we go out in the world. For each project do you mean you guys take on the the lion share of the decisions in terms of okay. This project once it's brought to you. Needs this designer or this printer or this editor or are you guys handling most of that yourselves and what's the relationship with the photographer when they come in or how often are the the the projects someone completed? We work very closely with the photographers in development and the book and concept of the book we are a two person company. As a Steve, does all of the the online back in. Anything anything that involves the screen at that is that is his realm as well as any of the logistics of the sales systems that in the banking systems that use. I. Do Marketing I do editing ideal design Yes I do all of those things we bring in copy editor who works with us on the on the text. But that is largely to be able to produce a fifty to seventy five thousand dollars for twenty, five, thousand dollars. Short. Answer to that. is in yet but. Based on every project you work with different folks I mean you're not gonNA. have. Kind of a team set up that's going to give the books some kind of uniform look or I mean different. For each one imagine beyond. Beyond the fifty dollar price point we really hard for there to not be formula and very much comes out of the time that I spent as a designer aperture in working under Michael Hoffman. Of really looking at every book and understanding how it can. Evolve exists I mean I really see my role as editor and designer books as a translator. How do I get to know the photographers viewpoint and how through the form of a book Are we sharing that you point with broader audience with people? And as we were talking earlier than notion of viewer is important. So I will sometimes challenge the photographer in saying I understand that this is your view, but the book is not just for you. It is in fact for all of these people who have already bought it so we have to come to. A Happy Agreement here. A space in the middle of that that addresses both both of your viewpoint and allows your viewpoint you translate to them. Can you put a percentage on how many books make it all the way to the finish line? Yes seventy five percent. Yeah I mean as we've continued. We've seen we've seen what projects. Are Most, likely to succeed and more. So than project really we've seen photographers at a certain point in their careers who perhaps have Other support whether it's a gallery or possibly an exhibition coming up all of those things being said, India beal who her book is coming out in. November. She doesn't have gallery. She was just a powerhouse has a lot of media attention for her work and she worked really hard to. Make sure people knew that the was for sale. It was her first book. We've done a few I books and those definitely do well but we've also found that people who are not emerging artists that are at least ten to twenty years into their career had built up enough of an audience space for our model to be able to work for you. That's interesting grin. And let's jump in quickly to the uncontained photographer, which to some degree doesn't fit the model that you that you put out is one of the exceptions though. And the price reflects it. It's twenty five dollars. Book can can you immediate talk a little bit already about how the idea came to be but did did this this type of book throwing monkey wrenches into the general way you do things? and. Yes I mean every every aspect of this book was new. Is New. It's only it's only been for sale for a couple of lease ends. At the same time it's been, it's been a great experiment and. We've been in business for seven years and obviously this year for all businesses in all sectors is kind of a unlike anything else and it felt important. Try something different. And so this was an opportunity to do a book at a lower price point. To Do to do an essay book I I like words words matter me and I love photography and so to be able to engage a little bit in. Words by a photographer and see. With a much smaller financial investments at what what would be like you to put a book out my biggest concern was consistency of quality in the print on demand environment. So actually which is. illogical. But I ordered a bunch of books to come to us. So I, could see all of them and then re ships them out to the People Botham. Paying for shipping twice which quality isn't Isn't it is quality control. The works have been consistent. So I think that we will probably shift from that to fulfilling orders in a true print on demand environment where the books are shipped directly to the person who was purchasing but. Yes it's a learning process and I'm a perfectionist. So I don't give up on those elements to easily I. Have a question. If I may you're talking about words and photographs and and I I also believe that good words or good essay accompanying photographs are pretty important What percentage of photographers that you've published so far also wrote an essay or the or whatever text goes along with it. What percentage? Question sitting around to look at my shelf I would say. Maybe fifty percents have written something on some of the books have interviews with the photographers or artists. All, of the books have texts as a that. Is An important thing to see because as Nancy newhall once said the. The relationship of great photographs and the right words really is its own third medium and that's something that's always really resonated. One of the books that comes to mind for me is that we published in two thousand eighteen called pine by Eric Johnson, and it's really beautiful particularly now that we're all may have been locked down for much of this year and they're photographs of. Tree carvings and they're very poignancy answered. Take us back to different moment in time but when Eric presented at this. United known each other for for many years. One of his Asher. He was envisioning the working presented with no tax, and in fact, had commissioned a group of musicians and was producing L. He. To have music accompanied the photographs in centered attacks and? I really pushed him on that to say you know there's things that I know about you personally about your life about your role as a father about losing your father that. Inform this work. And if you don't share some of that I, feel like that's a lawsuit to the person viewing this work, and in that case, you know he he wrote really just as kind of journal he wrote a few paragraphs and shared it with me and I cried when I read them and I said, okay, that's all we need this. Well last question has to do with You know what I guess sales on the back end I mean do you how many books will you publish after you know in addition to the ones that are pre bod and and again, what what have you seen and that do do they sell maybe rag more. So after the books out there and people you know the word gets out is that that that just is in the cake or is that something that you you kind of hope Foreign Coenen? Yeah thanks for asking that. So first of all, we don't sell any of our books on. Amazon. We never have and we do work with independent bookstores and we work with a lot of museums stores we work with other independent retailers. Even. Those retailers have to agree to not her books on Amazon because a lot of bookstores have have necessary relationships with Amazon. We just felt like it was important to support small businesses. We are a small business, and so again when we started, we really had no idea what the life of the book would be after that resells process and the photographers. The authors get hundred copies of the book when we start so that. They. Get that in lieu of in advance and then if the sales on. Exceed I think it's a thousand or fifteen hundred copies than they get. They get a royalty, but we really believe that what the photographers need. The most are the books. and. So we make sure that they have they have a lot. I'm. Want, or is that part of the Amazon? They can sell them they can sell them if they're doing individual lectures, and then if we sell out of the books than they can sell into the marketplace. So you know they don't sell directly. We manage the the sales directly but then once we're sold out, they can sell them on their website or wherever else they want to be able to to sell them and. Ends up until last year, we about thirty percents of our revenue was coming from Bookstore Sales Museum stores. Of course, this year that's gone. Because most of those places aren't aren't open, but we have seen we have seen the consumers coming directly to our website and buying books from us. Is staying pretty steady, which is, which is fantastic. That's. Something I wanted US earlier can can you pre by several books of the same same book? And two people do that to bookstores do the doors at a different? That's a that's a good question. We will work with galleries during the pre sales process. We don't work with bookstores during the pre sales process because it's too confusing for them to issue a purchase order for something that may not happen. And so. It also changes the financial model because you're selling to stores at wholesale rate. So we really focused on selling to consumer during that prevails period that said, there are people who buy multiple copies of books. Sometimes, they do that as gifts to be able to name other people in the book. Sometimes, businesses will buy. So for instance. Red, bull by. One hundred. Hundred copies of Lisa. Leonis, because they wanted to give it a holiday guest and they receive logo credit in the book for making that commitment in advance and they bought the book at retail and but we did a special insert for them for those folks. We're giving it out to their employees. Is that something that you would look at on sale regular basis of a book was coming out and there was some kind of a company or product that could be associated with would you approach out in same? We're doing this. Here's a copy of sample copy. Would you be interested in helping to fund smu actively doers just happened to come up in that one instance. Will will do any thing we can ask. Kid Action is the short answer to that and. If it's good for the photographer and it's good for the book and it's for the public and no mammals get hurt process. It's all good though small animals are injured. As curator once said to me very recently, you know Michelle integrity is not really profitable. I maintain a high level of integrity. So if we can find a way with integrity to move something forward, it absolutely happens Gotcha Okay Joan absolute pleasure talking with you. If people WANNA catch up more of your work, where can they go to and if they want to see a learn more about water for tears and get a copy of it perhaps where can they go? You are asking. They can directly for me so they can get a signed copy a water frontiers. Anyone of the three books have done are available. Water. For. Two years. And drive drive-ins are all fifty dollars each less four dollars for shipping and I'm very good at chipping America great you can just write me. At my email Joan. Dot Lifton, which is L. I. F. T. I n.. G. Mail DOT COM. One other thing is They can find it also on my vizier website, which is Joan Lifting Dot Com, and Joan. You have copies of departures arrivals for sale also right beside do. Your. This thing I have is now closed stays. Books. At, least you have your priorities straight that's all I can tell you. And Michelle people want to catch up with what you're up to, where can they be going to? Yes WWW DOT minor matters, books, dot com we have the unconcern photographer for sale. We also have our three forthcoming. New Books are that can be purchased now and I guess we'll announced year for the first time we have a couple of titles in reprints and so do please check out the web zoo Nice reprints a nice. That's good. Her time. Okay. That's another show. If you'd like to be the first on your block to know in a new episode of the be nature be podcasts goes live. All you have to do is subscribed the show. If you're not a subscriber head on over to subscribe to podcast and type B and h photography podcast into the search field and boom, you are family you can also find us on the being h explorer website for now and the immediate future on behalf of John Harrison. Jason. Tables my name is lights and thank you so much for tuning in to day.

Joan editor Michelle Charlie publisher Charlene Jones Chronicle John Lifton New York Marseilles Brooklyn L. Michelle Marsh Charles Lisa Aperture Foundation WanNa Adriana Steve Macintyre David Seattle