20 Episode results for "Australian Stock Exchange"

October 27, 2020

Cyber Security Headlines

06:18 min | 9 months ago

October 27, 2020

"From the sea. So series it cyber-security headlines. Tuesday October Twenty Seven Twenty Twenty Twitter to pre bunk voter misinformation on Monday twitter began placing messages at the top of a user's fee to preemptively debunk misinformation about voting by mail because this won't be a contextual notification alongside specific tweet with misinformation twitter is calling this pre bunking twitter will also add a pre bunking message about the timing of election results on October twenty eighth. Microsoft force load some web pages in edge as part of Microsoft's planned deprecation of Internet explorer starting with Edge eighty-seven, a list of one, thousand, one, hundred, fifty, six sites accessed in it will automatically open in edge. This includes Youtube instagram twitter, ESPN, e harmony, and go daddy enterprise users will be able to set a group policy to disable to force loading when forcing pages to open. In Edge, Microsoft will display a banner explaining the change it was for a better performance and security. Google removed three APPS for violating data collection policies. Gula was alerted by the nonprofit watchdog International Digital Accountability Council that the APPs targeted at younger users may violate the policies, the APPs Princess Salon number coloring and cats and causeway use SDK's case that could potentially send user static android ID's and dynamically. android advertising ID's to publishers, which when combined could be used track Geo location over time, the three APPs have been downloaded more than twenty million times and other APPs from the publishers are still available on the play store. Report shows the effects of stress UNSEE. SOS. nomin nuts see. So stressed report found that eighty percent of four hundred responding ceases said they were under moderate to severe amounts of stress and their job forty, eight percent actively about the negative impact of their job on their mental health with percents saying the stress has impacted relationships with partners and their children. The report also found that the average tenure is twenty six months with an organization with twenty four percent reporting that they're boards don't believe data breaches are in fact inevitable and twenty percents saying they expect to be fired as the result of one even if it wasn't their fault. And now, a word from F five and the security summit join experts across f five a leader in the security space a November tenth to gain valuable innovative insights into enabling advance application security, sophisticated cyberattacks trends in online fraud, and manage risks in McLeod join. This must attend virtual security event by heading to F five dot. Com Slash summit twenty. Seven criminals blackmail psychotherapy patients, the Finland based psychotherapy company. Estano said its customer register of over forty thousand patients was likely compromise between the end of November two, thousand, eighteen, and March. Twenty nineteen attackers are now reportedly reaching out to patients in the breach with blackmail threats. The attackers of already leaked patient therapy notes from three hundred patients. The company said patients who have been contacted with blackmail threats should report them to the police. NITRO PDF suffers a data breach. nitro initially reported the breach as a low impact security incident to the Australian Stock Exchange on October twenty first setting no impact customer data. However, the cyber security firms sable reports that a threat actor selling user and document databases as well as one terabyte of documents all claim to be stolen the breach. This includes a user credential database verified by bleeping computer with seventy million user records, containing email addresses, full names, hashed passwords, titles, company names, and Ip addresses. cybele says accounts from Google Apple, Microsoft, chase and Citibank are in the databases. Popular Youtube download her removed from get up. On, October twenty third get hub removed Youtube L. after receiving legal notice from the way that it violated anti circumvention provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright along with seventy other repos since being removed hundreds of other repositories were created with the source code for the download. Her additionally, the source code for Youtube deal was also edited the official getup repository used for hosting received DMC takedown notices. This is due to a known bug that lets anyone attached commits to repos. They don't control youtube was in the top forty most repositories on get hub between no US and Cooper Netease. A look at voter signature verification, software venture beat recently looked signature verification systems used by states to validate signatures on submitted ballots. These systems rely on data sets of images of signatures and are designed to differentiate between global features for an individual signature as a whole and local features from individual parts of that signature. Two fifteen study on these systems in Europe Journal on Advances in signal processing that these data sets had vast reaches of accuracy from seventy four point. Three percent to ninety, six, point, seven percent and the ACLU says, these systems are biased to reject signatures from esl speakers and those with mental or physical disabilities. Seventy counties across eight US states also use AI systems for signature verification most commonly Paris script. This let's election officials set their own minimum scores for approving signatures with a wide swath of acceptable rates depending on that decision on the Eighteenth States require providing notice in the case of missing or rejected signatures. Over on series DOT COM. We've got the latest episode of C.. So security vendor relationship podcast entitled archaeologist dig up the remains of an optimistic see. So our guest George Feeny see. So of southern Methodist University argues that a positive attitude toward security can actually make you more secure to listen head over to see so series dot com or download the show through your favorite podcast up like I don't know maybe the one you're using listen to this podcast. I'm rich Rafa Lino reporting for the sea. So series. cybersecurity headlines are available. Every weekday had to cease. So series dot com for the full stories behind the headlines.

twitter Seven Twenty Twenty Twitter Microsoft Youtube Google US ESPN Finland southern Methodist University Australian Stock Exchange Rafa Lino fraud ACLU George Feeny Europe Journal on Advances Gula
Tobias Carlisle  Assets are Valuable, but Cash Flow Is King

My Worst Investment Ever Podcast

26:57 min | 1 year ago

Tobias Carlisle Assets are Valuable, but Cash Flow Is King

"In a very long story short but they were doing was running out of cash so selling these very undivided. They will being taken advantage of not the other way around the the funnel the end of that things they ended up in bankruptcy third had low fellow risk-takers and welcome to my worst investment ever stories of loss to keep you winning in our community. We know that to win an investing. You must take risks but to win big. You've got to reduce it. Today's episode is sponsored by the valuation masterclass Online. The complete proven step-by-step online course guide you from novice devaluation experts. podcast listeners. Can claim your amazing seizing thirty five percent discount by going to my worst investment ever dot com slash deals. My name is Andrew Stotz from ace dots. Investment Research. And I'm here with with featured. Guests Tobias Carlisle Tobias. Are you ready to rock. I'm ready to rock all right. Let me tell the audience a bit about you. Tobias is is the founder of the acquirers multiple is also the founder of acquires funds. He is best known as the author of the number one new release in Amazon business. This and finance the acquirers multiple how billionaire contrarians of deep value. beat the market. Also the Amazon best-sellers Deep Value Y.. Activists Investors and other the country and battle for control of losing corporations also quantitative value a practitioner's guide to automating intelligent investment in any eliminating behavioral errors which is very important and concentrated investing strategies of the world's greatest concentrated value investors sisters he has extensive experience in Investment Management Business Valuation Public Company Corporate Governance and corporate law prior to founding the forerunner to acquire his fund. In two thousand isn't ten. Tobias was an analyst at an active his head fund general counsel of a company listed on the Australian Stock Exchange and a corporate advisory lawyer as a lawyer specialising in mergers and acquisitions. He has advised on transactions across a variety of industries in the United States. The U K China Australia Singapore Bermuda Papa. New Guinea New Zealand in Guam. He is a graduate of the University of Queensland in Australia. With degrees in law and Business Tobias take take a minute and filling any further tidbits. Not Your Life. The only thing that I should be the main thing to mention is my full time. Job Is as portfolio manager manager of the acquirers fund which is an ETF listed on the New York Stock Exchange. The ticket is Z. I. G. Zig Ziglar in the markets eggs. That's a long long short deep value fund very traditional sort of long positions. We try to buy them really deeply valued which means that. I don't like to pay a lot for growth for balance sheet strength. Lots of free cash lead buying back stock and short stuff that's massively evaluate in in distress losing lots of money lots of debt on the balance sheet and so it makes it really easy to buy. We run that it's kind of a it's a passion. It's a vacation. It's an avocation and so that's my fulltime job so I got lots of loses lots of really bad positions. It's really easy to talk about that because we were wrong. About forty percent of the time and at fifty two percent of the time. So that's a little bit of an a coin. Flip Hebert honey when I'm right I'm really right. It's the magnitude of a frequency right when you for those isometric position so when you get them right you make galant when you get them wrong. You don't lose much exactly. I'm just curious before we go on to the main question over here in Asia. We don't have such such things as ETF's as kind of a method of implementing your strategy. Can you just give us a briefing for the listeners. kind of what does that mean. Because in the old days you started a fund and you went out your applied for all the man and you know you raise money into that fund. I'm just curious. Like what's the Pros Rosen cons and how what like. Yeah that's a great question. So an exchange traded fund. ETF is a slightly different structure. So you might be it. Familiar with a mutual fund or a limited partnership which is how most hedge funds structured. What those things are that? You have to sort of contact the manager Asia in order to invest in those things often you need to be credited which is which means you need a certain level of assets or income and any moves the manager of the manager sales position that has some capital gains in that flows through to you as the whole so you might not have a gain but you re paying tax acce the ETF is this incredible creation that you can buy three. Oh brokerage accounts of European up your brokerage account it should be available in the NYC he's Zig Zag NYC whichever way around Zig dot us. Something like that. And it's not a four three vehicle for capital gains provided that it's managed properly which means set we make buys and sells in the font and they don't impact you. What happens is your capital gain is where you buy it and ways so So it's it's a lot. It's the same as buying a share price shot. So it's it's like a stock exactly right. It's like a stock trades of stocks. And just curious because when I left America was nineteen ninety two and I left America right about where you are living and came to Thailand and of course we didn't really even have EDF's offset that time. I'm just curious. Maybe you could just give the the listeners. Just a real brief discussion of why would somebody implement their ideas it through an ETF. In America to say where where there's lots of options versus implementing your ideas through a fun what benefit you get from that the reason reason to do it as some sort of hedge fund so you can charge higher fees you get you get a big fat management fee and a big fat carry. If you're like I am and you sort sort of you know clearly Australian of been in the states for about a decade now the way that I've got recognition or the way that have gotten on is through writing books. 'cause I don't have a great network here on people so there's a trend in this industry towards lower fees for the most part so I kind of height getting lockups. I think there's any reason to look up capital which is what the hedge funds. It's difficult to get in and out of the Hedge Fund when you have an underlying so this the hedge fund invests my phone sorry invests in basically the universe is the S. and P. Fifteen hundred which is a compasses index the largest fifteen hundred stocks out of that. Maybe there are like three thousand investable stocks in the states. That's very liquid so there's just no reason from to throw up gates and make it very common for people to get in and out so this thing is it's easy for smaller. Investors to invest through their brokerage account directly into the fund. I can manage it. Describe what's happening. You can say the holdings role published every day on the website which is acquires fun dot com and you can see all of the in in a workings and everything so it's just a trend of the will towards transparency and love phase and so I just thought I'd get out in front of the trend. Got It that makes sense. Do you know. Oh how many large and liquid companies there are in the Chinese stock market if you just said that don in the US market you mentioned about three thousand as has. Potentially you know kind of what we could call investable. It's hunt with individual. It might be. They might be more than that. It might be. It could be five thousand or something like that the for sort of professional investors. It's about three thousand. Yeah I DID FOR MY PhD dissertation. One of my things I needed to do is look look at markets across the world particularly across Asia and determine what was you know what was the definition of large and liquid and I came up with the definition. Well well I would say that. The definition of large and liquid is probably minimum two hundred fifty million dollars and you would say average average daily turnover of depends. I mean you could say half a million dollars to a million dollars the definition depends. Are we talking about kind of a high net worth or are we talking about an institutional investor but something along that line so it does include small-cap. We don't want to exclude small-cap but it got to be that you could put some reasonable reasonable amount of money in it. If it's only trading one hundred thousand dollars a day you know. It's very hard to allocate money to that which to standards. It's harder to meet. Do you think the two eight hundred fifty million or the half million to a million shares a day. The half a million two million shows a day. And it's really what's most important is that you can actually get it in and out for most people but what was interesting to me is that China has three thousand large and liquid companies. Wow investable companies and it's growing at such a pace I think my number for the US with something like four thousand five hundred so your number that you said about five thousand is probably about right and we do this study. I did the study about three years ago and I've updated pretty regularly. I haven't really published it. I should do more on that but I would. Guess it's five five thousand so I'll take you. I'll take your number. So what my forecast from that is that five years from now based upon trends in China and in the US China we'll we'll have more large and liquid companies in their stock market. In fact China will become a bigger more investable stock market the core war of capitalism states. That's crazy that's amazing. I mean that's just a an interesting statistic based upon you know what we're talking about so yeah there you go in fact I should probably include a link to that in the show notes. If anybody wants to dig immoral. I'll take a look at a study up. Yeah I will so anyways anyways now it's time to share your worst investment. Ever since no one goes into their worst investment thinking it will be tell us a bit about the circumstances leading up to it and then tell us your story. Why should say I've always you know I read all of buffet stuff before I ever started investing in kind of prevented from investing in a lot of stuff because I was an eminent lawyer Royal? It's just not a good look at the youngest lawyer on the deal team has a position in the stock. That's getting taken over. Looks like insider trading so we kind of always bod from buying anything so I had read all the theory by the time I got before I even opened my first brokerage account and so I didn't advocate of never got very concentrated of never had an enormous awesome out of network in any individual positions. So I've been quite comfortable making lots of dumb Ariza and putting the money in the wrong positions and I've learned a lot. That's how you learn. You know you might make as many mistakes as you can as quickly as you can. And that's kind of figure out what you're doing so it's hard for me to narrow it down to just one but I'll tell early. This was for me. This is an important one in my own evolution as an investor so I started out looking for kind of undervalued assets. That's how I started up. I stock up. You're looking at net Karnak net net steel Graham net nets and I graduated from Graham net nets to looking at more of these kind of acid heavy heavy businesses and trying to find ones that would deeply devout so in when the BP oil spill happened. I forget exactly when that is maybe be at more than a decade ago. I had this thought. I don't WANNA be right in the epicenter of that. I don't want to be in BP but there were all of these other any oil and gas company that was in the Gulf or nearby got dinged up pretty badly and one in particular was seahawk drilling and what seahawk drilling at the head. About one hundred fifty of these Jack Up Rigs Jack up rig is something at floats out into the middle of the Gulf of Texas put sits Harland's it's down into the bottom and injects itself up out of the water and drills and what they did. was they lease them out to other companies that were drilling so you can imagine as soon as the BP oil go happens all those drilling stops. They get there in a lot of trouble and so they don't have a lot of cash flow but they're very acid heavy so I figured out that trading like ten cents on the dollar. That was my estimate estimate. The big problem is that is not cash for so they were saying. There's never been an opportunity like this to buy Jack Up rigs in the Gulf Texas and it's like really capitalizing become you know the big driller in this area. And so I thought well this is here. We go these guys know what they're doing very very undervalued value. They're going to capitalize on this. This is exactly what I'm looking for. And I have subsequently learned when I wrote concentrated investing we and we interviewed Christian. CMO Em. WHO's like the Norwegian oil and Gas Maestro? He created transition. He's been around forever. He says you buy these companies when Abe it when they're losing the money that's the time to buy. You seldom when making a lot of money. You know. It's counter cyclical counter-intuitive. That's kind of contrary sway value works so it was kind doing the right thing. The issue was that these guys just didn't have the cash so I look at the quarterly report and I'd say that they'd sold some rigs and like I wasn't smart enough off to think that's kind of the opposite of what you said you were doing to cut a very long story short. What I would doing was running out of cash? So selling these very undefended rigs they were being taken advantage of the other way around the funnel. The end of that thing was they ended up in bankruptcy. And I I didn't write it all the way Oy into bankruptcy but I was done. ICO Ninety percent didn't really matter. It was as close to being one hundred percent wrong as you can possibly be but it was disappointing because I thought the faces. This is pretty good and written publicly about this little website greenback just to let go look at the wreckage of this position. It still on the side. Yeah I just got it wrong and it's one of those things that I still think the the basis was sound one. I just missed an this is probably the the takeaway from it. You can have a face but you have to be very careful of the cash flow. That was sort of one of the things that transitioned me away from doing that. Shouli asset based investing looking at flows of a little bit more closely looking at cash flows looking at balance sheet health in addition to making sure that the business business was actually operating in a good one right. And what lessons did you learn from this. Well that was the very beginning of studying on the path towards where I am. Now which is I look for. I want my focus is. It's the acquirers multiple acquires funds. We WanNA think why can acquire a think like a buyout fund. Think like an activist. Think like someone who looks at the company in its tea and when you do that you know only buying the equity the market capital. I think about the debt you'd think about any other debt like security preference shares that kwanzaa debt somewhere between ditton equity underfunded pensions. That are million ways to get caught convertible not be very careful about is holes in the balance sheet that might sink. Thank you and then on the other hand you've got the free cash buybacks for the reason that Taffarel's signal now buyback secure at the but Erin expensive companies but on the valid company so the very existence of a buyback doesn't tell you much often a buyback is doing is just cleaning up shit option option issuance to to send its material buyback that you WANNA big Bob. The and that's an important message. One thing that management probably agrees the stock is undervalued open to it tells you that the free cash flow is real and I think there's going to be more in the future. That's a very powerful message and the materiality not reality of it tells you the evaluation of the company just. It's just sort of a matter in expensive. The the businesses not a huge part of a the overall valuation size of the business such as comp back much stock whereas if the if the businesses trading very cheaply in the sorry if the market capitalization is cheap cheap if the price is cheap at the businesses quite substantial relative to the size of capitalisation when they buy back stock it is very material so material buyback is a very powerful signal. That's why I run my business now. The acquires multiple. Just identifies these sort of stocks in the acquires fund. We do a little bit more work and then we bought them or show them as the case may be One question about that before I get into my comments when a sheriff prices going down as this one did quite substantially but as you think about got it now obviously our number one risk management for your type of investing. Let's say in my type of investing a number one risk management tool is good research right so we like the company. We've seen that. The company is strong like the corporate governance therefore if the sheriff vice goes goes down. Hey it's cheaper right but at some point that's wrong and in this case you know that was the case. I'm just curious as far as deciding whether to exit or add to position when a stock goes down. How do you think about that in relation to? Let's say this what you learn from this and just you know your own thinking about that. Yeah it's it's a very hard decision to make. It's the hardest one to make because most of the time the markets right right and you're wrong so you have to be a little bit humble about it but then equally you know in order to beat the market you have to be able to make these. You have to be able to buy these things and saving go against you. A big pot of becoming comfortable with the position is doing the valuation. So I always like to do the valuation then you anchor to the valuation not the share price stumping can be cheap and still go into bankruptcy. So let's not it doesn't Save Your Life have to look at the health of the business. You have to look at the health of the balance sheet. You want the quality of the business to be at a reasonable sufficient so that it can't survive that debt to equity ratio is quick ratios making sure they can accommodate interest on making sure that you can cover the bullet payment on the debt that becomes to all sorts of things you have to be comfortable with and then you're looking at the share price. Select something that can be taken advantage of. I wouldn't sell or otherwise because of the movement in the Kapros even though that does mean though sometimes they're going to be wrong and Mike a silly mistake that had followed the share price more closely with got rod but I think that unbalanced it works to make more money that way. So that's that's the way that's the way I don't. I let let me summarize what I took away from your story and and let me know if you missed anything if I missed anything the first thing I wrote down his assets are valuable but cash is king and I think it's a great lesson that you you know it's great to have I mean think about you know there's a lot of people that are asset rich in cash for and the problem about that is they can't meet your bills because the cash does not there. The consequences are massive. And so that's a great lesson. The other thing that that I thought about was something that my mother always said. We said when you marry someone you marry their family and just made me think about how when you buy something. You're buying everything and you talked about the idea of looking at it from an acquirers perspective. Active that means you know you gotta think about that debt you gotta think about that preferred share whereas if you're not thinking requires perspective. It's kind of a date what you're trying to think of it is. This is a marriage and I think that that's kind of a takeaway from my own kind of personal life life but it's a good one all right well based upon what you've learned from this story and what you continue to learn. What one action would you recommend our listeners? Take avoid suffering the same fate and I do want to caveat this a little bit because there's many listeners who are fundamental analysts digging deep into a story feel very confident about their story and maybe right on most parts of it but they're just about to make the same mistake state humane. So what one piece of advice would you tell them to do. It's very hard to narrow it down to one piece of advice but I really think that the most important thing is not so much stock selection but portfolio management which means provided that. You don't stick too much into any given position. You can't lose anything that's not in it. So he just needs to be sufficiently diversified and just take care with the concentration. Because the thing that I have seen over and over and over again not so much in my own portfolio because I got that religion very early but in in portfolios of friends of mine is that they put too much into the one position and then they keep on raping as it goes down to zero so for me. It's just don't get too concentrated into any given position got it and this highlights from all the interviews. I've done in the stories that have been submitted to me being an analyst. I analyzed it and I tried to tease out. What are the main mistakes that people have made? And they're six common mistakes in this one. What you're mentioning and also what you talked about for your your story is number two and that means the second most common? The first most common is that they failed to do their own research. That was the case in your in your case number choose failed to properly assess and manage risk. And I think that what you're talking about. First of all the assessment of the risk but the second part is the managing of the sizing the position and thinking about diversification and. I think there's another paper that I wrote particularly in Asia that was academic paper that I said it's called the ten stocks are enough in Asia Asia and what I tried to highlight was that you know a Lotta Times. Diversification in the world of investing professional professional investing institutional investing. It's actually. It's actually used in the wrong way the opposite way of the way I think it should be thought of you know the beauty of what Harry Markowitz described in his original original work on diversification. was that you don't need that. Many stocks to get rid of that company specific risk. It's not he wasn't saying add more and more and more stocks to get rid of all risk he was saying. Wow it's amazing. How much risk can be gotten rid of which is a small number of stock so so if you look at the trade off between risk and return and you ask yourself how do I get rid of the maximum amount of risks without getting rid of the opportunity to outperform? Because if you own every doc you're not going to outperform and my number was ten in Asia and you say to an average individual investor never owned less than ten stop. You Karadzic listened. I I like you know my portfolio. My acquires fun portfolios thirty. And that's a very common number in both academia using using Mauka wits get rid of the non-diversified will risk somewhere between twenty and thirty also for the value investors clam Graham. They sort of fall out around that number Y- Yup it really depends. It's just really. It becomes a matter of Thais much volatility. Can you wear in your portfolio. How much work you prepared to positions? What sort of positions Z.? Putting on 'cause I buy and sell options as a value investor not not an option trader. which is a very different way of doing it? But some of these options you know they have zero intrinsic value that could expire with with. I'm not going to put ten cinema pool volume to something like that. I'm not one percent but three percent depending on. How Confident Ron? I'm feeling but that's still a much much smaller position than anybody going more concentrated than ten. Yeah well the thing about ten is it was kind of the minimum and many you know it makes sense to hold more than that or in my case if I get close to ten than what I do is apply stop losses because losing eighty eighty percent of a ten percent holding is still pretty massive. That'll ruin your year. Yes exactly all right last question. What's your number one goal for the next twelve months? You know I want that run. The acquires fund to outperform the market. And that's not something that you know. That's my wish. That's not a guarantee you know that's hard to do. Most I funds. Don't do that but I do think that there are some reasons why value might work really well at the moment and one of them is that it's very bad. Two Year run starting January Henry Two thousand eighteen. It's really under perform the market and I think that is when that happens. Typically what happens is that the there's a bounce back off to. Its and I think that would probably I think it started August twenty seven which was the best day. Full value was stifling momentum. I think it's continued on September October and through November. So I'm hopeful been had my heartbroken a few times by this by the old value investing but I think that of all of the strategies that are out. They've values the one right right now. That is the only one that in absolute and relative times can generate some good performance yeah and the underperformance has been more than just two years if you look at it you know. It's been almost a decade because because the stock market was it's been down for two years at a mark up and the subtitle of that is here underperformance coming up on their decade. Tough all right listeners. There you have another story of loss to keep winning to find more stories like this previous episodes and resources to help you reduce your risk visit my worst investment assessment. Ever as we end Tobias. I WanNa thank you again for coming on the show. I know it's painful. Talking about are losers but our listeners. Learning to win as a result. Do you have any parting words awards for the audience. None at all. I'm very familiar with Louis because I have them all the time. You shouldn't be worried about them. That's a good way to learn. And they'll be more in the future so you got to come to terms with them. Don't let them blow up your portfolio and blow up your mind too much. Yes the last part is very important. Ladies and gentlemen because Remember Majority of people that I asked asked to come on the show say no way so I think what you've shown Tobias is that you know you have the ability to look through your worst investment investment and grow from that and I think that's ultimately what would make you a great person to follow in and listened to so that's a wrap on another great story to help us create grow in most importantly protect our wealth fellow risk-takers. I'll see you on the upside.

Asia Tobias Carlisle Tobias United States China analyst Investment Management Business Amazon Australian Stock Exchange America University of Queensland Gulf founder Zig Ziglar portfolio manager manager Australia Andrew Stotz
Tony Kynaston - Situation Normal

Shares for Beginners

25:42 min | 1 year ago

Tony Kynaston - Situation Normal

"Welcome back to shares for beginners UNFIL- mascatello listening to this. Podcast will be aware that I normally discuss topics of a general nature only with guests. We don't talk about market conditions happening. However I know there's a lot of fear emotional turmoil game on at the moment so let's pour some oil on troubled waters of US Coniston from the Qa podcast to come back on so that we could ally some of those fees tiny feel faithful at the moment. So I emailed Tony yesterday and mentioned difficult times and Hema email back saying situation normal hence the name of this episode. There's also a few moments at the end of this podcast from Rub Gilmore about the oil prostitution because it's not all about the corona virus. You may remember rob as the first guest ever on this. Podcast dropped around this morning to give us insight into the oil price. What's volatile and why it has an effect on markets so we're recording this on Wednesday march eleven at ten. Am The markets are just opened? We're having not having a look at this before that at this stone. I look at it that often. I guess at this time I look at it. Maybe two or three times a week so on Monday the ASX two hundred. The top two hundred shares on the Australian Stock Exchange dropped seven point three three percent that was after dropped around thirteen percent in the previous wakes the moves on the New York Stock Exchange of being similar yesterday the ASX. Two hundred closed up about three percent after opening three point. Eight percent lower overnight the US is up nearly five percent. These gyrations quite funky and wild yet tony. You're remained sanguine. Why well I think what's happening with. The market's going up and down at the moment in particular is people reacting to stimulus to what Elliott is assigned. What's happening with light as reports of spread of Corona Vars? So they're acting to news and we can't lose sight of the fact that the share market is a market it's people trading with people and therefore subject to human psychology. Which is the study of behavior? And we we need to have a framework to deal with that and the framework which says this is how I approach investing on buying shares in companies and. Yes they tried it on and isn't subject to psychology so I have to have that framework operating in that kind of real environment but I can't be blowing sided. Bought it by human psychology. And I think that's what's happening in the market at the moment is is people are I guess because the news tends to focus on share markets at this time it is becoming top of mind and people's awareness. It's a bit like we've all worked in offices where there's one person who always begins a conversation with have you heard the lightest and that kind of person is kind of dominating the market at the moment and we need to be polite to that person we need. Basically in there will be times when there's big falls and we have to decide whether we're borrow seller and there'll be times when those big Roy's is and we have to decide whether we were borrower seller but that's part of being an invest up and before the podcast go talking about Warren Buffett. And he's quite we need to be fearful when people are greedy and greedy people fearful now. We had the faithful when people are greedy activity last year and they were having the greedy when people are fearful top event this year. I'm not saying that people should be buying into the market at the moment but should have an idea of what will be a situation when they'll bind to the market and I have a framework. I guess I need to put a caveat ramble. I'm talking about here. I'm trying to give people a boss. I'm trying to tell people do and that's different. I think whether you fall is up to you and what we're all about on air podcast. The podcast is to teach people how to think for themselves and to deal with markets. And I have a framework and the framework used to look look for the quality companies and look for them when they're at value and at the moment there are lots and lots of companies in that situation. But what we're doing is well on on waiting for the sentiment around those companies to start to turn. That might not be. It might be tomorrow. It might be in six months time in twelve months time but That's that's what I'm looking for and we talk about what we call a three point. Trend Line graph. Some people talk about moving averages so basically it's when the short-term sentiment in the market overtakes the long-term sentiment in the market and when we see that starting to happen then we'll we'll be a bar in this market but there are plenty of opportunities to to boy. So what would you say to someone? At the moment. I mean it's a psychological thing and because of all the headlines and because of all the media making a big deal about it and Italy's in lockdown if your new to the market and you're not sure what's going on. This is probably a learning experience for you because this kind of corrections happens. Every six or seven years. It's basically wants the sokoll event in the shamrock. So I get used to it as we said before situation normal. These things happen. I think the last one happened like there was a ten to twenty percent correction about December. Two Thousand Nineteen so so. I don't panic. I guess as the message by the same token if you're scratching your head saying okay become during this process but I don't know what to do then I would be hesitant to start trying to guess and trying to put money into the market if you really don't know what you're doing this Nairobi. The learning point in price for a new sharing vista. Maybe I don't know what I'm doing. I don't have the stomach for this gone. By Elicit Investment Company Anita or put my money in industry super fund or or a life fund off think. That's a very legitimate tyke out to have from this the last two weeks in the market and I think that's a very smart thing to do if you're feeling at all squeamish or at sea or not confident with what you're doing you can. You can certainly keep learning and maybe even running a paper portfolio during this process and see how you went and that's part of the learning process but if you are answer and don't don't take a risk put the money into a into a fund because this has been a very recent event. I mean people might have been buying an ATF three weeks ago. Yeah and this is. This is the first time they've been hit with it. So it's just a learning experience really. Isn't it something to think about and really stick with it? Yes Oh exactly want shouldn't think this would deter people from being ashamed. This is what I'm saying. Is this happens? This is normal for a shame market but if you are feeling squeamish or unsure what to do maybe maybe direct investing isn't for you but maybe in the future and so keep keep at it and learn through this process but I remember I call the GMC my my University of course in in share investing. And before that when I first started investing and did everything wrong. That was my my school of investing. So you always learn through these prices and experience does does help us give you the framework to keep calm and in buffet as we said before said you don't need anarchy over one hundred fifty to share investing need to become impatient and and that's exactly what we're seeing at the moment and other buffet saying years. Mr Market is a manic depressive. Knots your door every day and says on the by Your House. And here's the price it's up to. It's up to you whether you sell or or by his house next door. He'll keep coming to you or show. Keep coming to you with a price. It's up to you with the process. Did you enjoy his latest news and a couple of weeks right? What's your really recommend people go to the Berkshire Hathaway site very simple side. It's really just the list of the past twenty years of newsletters and start to read them fantastic and there's also actually all posted in the blog. Post this episode. But they he did an interview to our interview with CBS. Okay interview if you've seen that excellent interview. I mean the guy's rock solid is rock solid in the way he looks at looks at things and and I have a framework. I have a way of doing things and white for the market to to be in the right condition before I act so W- no one can predict the future but there's a lot of talk about that. Australia is going to go into a recession this year. How would that does that? Have any effect. I guess it doesn't have any effect on the way that you think about things or just changes the the timeframe of your investing now. It doesn't have any any direct effect and I guess I don't WanNa say I'm flippant I mean people will be hurt. If there's a recession people will be hurt. In particularly with the corona virus going through people will die so. I don't want to sample these various series topics we're talking with but in terms of how they impact don't have I invest. They just part of the general hilly billion the market I said before I have a framework of looking at companies individually. I look at the quality metrics and I look at the price and and decide whether it's their value or not and as Alaska the screen and look to see what the market's doing and with that company using an upswing or a downswing before I decide to pull the trigger and by that will be affected if again to a recession I expect that the list of companies looking at will grow but a and it might mean that anything for six months or twelve months Siberia and they all hang onto the ones. I've got and I would add a word of caution here to anyone out. There has a portfolio that they might want to consider reducing some of that gearing especially if it's a margin line when some of the shares can be at call. I don't think people have any idea of what a recession is like. I mean you and I were through several. I'm sure and that's kind of a market man. That's true I have at the back of my mind when when these kinds of events occur is that you know. I've lived through the ninety one recession through the Gulf wars of invested through the Dot Com crash the ninety eight long term capital management meltdown the Asian financial crisis the GMC. All these things you survive. And if you if you take the longer term view and look at the sham one hundred years the graphs dots in the bottom left hand side of the shape of the piece of paper and that goes to the top right hand side of the piece of paper. We'll always do that. I ever longer turn. We just have to keep that uppermost. Yup I'm talking to my daughter at the moment because she hasn't started investing it and she's got no idea doesn't want to do it she just wants to spend money and have a great time. She's at that age and But I tell her that his absent are available. These days which can help you get started investing like rays. Have you heard of rose? I haven't anyway what it does to basically it just rounds up every purchase on your own and that gets invested and I'm saying to a look. This is a great time to get started when markets down. Your dollar cost averaging in by getting in the best possible time. Is this the way that you would see someone? I starting in the market right now absolutely only gets Tom to start in the market anyway. Anyway possible yeah provider. You can stomach at going further down to help that price as you say is Duller cost average so if you've been dollar cost averaging into the market allows twelve months for example you've been buying lists is in the last twelve months now you buying more shares and so overall you're going to get a decent performance and you're not really worrying about where the market is you or you're trying to work out with them on by more or less the same number of dollars every month and I'm GonNa signed by twenty year old daughter who's asking us of the good time to start so we are starting with her the night. Perhaps we should explain what dollar cost. Averaging is here at this point sure so if someone for example to me and say I've just inherited one hundred thousand dollars. What do I do with it? The lasting ties him has gone. Put put it onto the market. Tomorrow I would say for example. Maybe take ten thousand dollars a month for the next ten months and every month spend ten thousand dollars buying into the market. And it's easier if you're buying an ETF listed investment company or putting it into US manage fund. You just keep putting ten ten thousand dollars in each up but what that means is that at the moment. Your ten thousand dollars goes twenty percent further. Then if you're doing it last year where you're buying list with that ten thousand dollars but I have a time. It evens out. You're buying market average. We haven't really discussed listed investment companies. But I just said this. We've got an episode that we've already recorded where you're explaining companies which will be coming up in the future. Sorry go into that. We've got that one to look forward to it anyway. Maybe we have discussed that. So if you've been holding off buying and you've got some cash is now something time. The people should stop thinking about it absolutely. Yeah I mean. The market's down twenty percent from its highs in my good answer this. I saw the overpaid told US dollar cost averaging to stop buying but yeah. This is sort of Tom. We're not going around looking at. How much undrawn facilities have in terms of debt? And whether I have any cash that Can pull together and start to put into the market the Koran Avars Heffler you of Karan Avars unfaithful of catching myself personally. And as I said before that one of the be flippant people will die from the virus on a macro style and economic scale it will disrupt supply chains if I sort of go through the risks of what could happen. I'M GONNA I'm GonNa say them as risks but they may not happen and I think yeah the management saying your hope for the best plan for the worst is a good one to keep in mind at this time but as you said before. We haven't seen the recession since nineteen ninety-one and it's we haven't seen what's caller supply recession for much longer than that so supply. Cyber session means that people can't get access to goods so for example. A bill to get access to howdy plank or something like that that they use to build a house with and that has two problems one. It means the house doesn't get built so there's this money going into the economy and the building has to put their their labs off but to also means that they'll be someone out there who can produce howdy plank in limited so the amount but the process go up and so we started to see inflation comeback into the market and so that the risk with with corona virus around the world is that people start having to pay more for like a buy cheaply either from China from from somewhere else that starts around of inflation and that's always bad for share markets because it's all the process of going up that means why we'll have to follow to pay for things Which means the economy go up. And that's a drag on business and the drag on the ship. All the shame marker and suicide tougher for people because they suddenly having to battle having to ask for more money and battle with the budget to try for everyday items groceries and clothing and things like that. You must be the person that sees inflation as a risk of this stuff. But I'm talking about real inflation. I mean we've lived through periods when inflation's be running at a high single digits and that's that's a pretty tough time to be to the an investor to to really get about an economy early Okay because Everyone else every pundit that I hear saying that we're going to be having low interest rates for a long long time. I'm a bit of a contrarian film and everyone says one thing I expect the opposite because no one can see the future and we're not a consensus in the market. It usually means it's already happened. Regret the turned the corner so the other side of the problems at the moment is to do with the oil prices. Well it's not just and we'RE GOING TO HAVE ROPE. Gilmore's I mentioned a bit lighter on just giving a brief review of that hetty say the oil price situation as it is developed. At the moment. I'll give you my opinion. And that's all it's it's you know. It's worth two cents really. I have my two cents. I did use to work for the Shell Oil Company so I have a little bit of experience in the world but not much to be able to shit any sort of certainty on. What's going to happen? I guess the fact is you need to consider out savvy. Arabia has just launched Aramco which is probably the biggest company in the world. Now it's seeing Russia's a as a major competitor so it's it's taking on Russia and doing some strange things to try and grow market share because Russia's economy the that's the main money earner Russia. It's one of the big ones it'd be only years. The energy oil. Guess yes. That's right so I can see tussles going on between Russia and the Ramco which is driving the prostate at the moment. I don't know when that will shake out. It'll be a game of bluffing. And who blinks first? I think I think the more important thing for the global economy is that if you Ara an oil company you have lots of debt your GonNa face a very tough time going forward. And I think it's the fallout of what happens to all companies in the financial community which is probably just as important or more important to awesome busters because there are some where we still applies out there especially in the. Us liberal leverage means that they've got some did got lots of debt. Yeah and so if I if I can't if they're showing all of the loss and thirty dollars a barrel they'll be some out there. Who are they will have to either refinance in which case that puts even more stress on the company and draws the shape process or or if they can't refinance and then if money to banks and those banks feis payment losses may become less profitable and this day and age all the banks are very interconnected site so banks realize that they shouldn't have all the eggs in one basket so they want just just be solely learning to the oldest straight dog often. And we'll take you take thought though. If they lie money to the oldest rate up probably gone borrowed from another bank to try and offset that line and balance out their portfolio which is the indicate by the financial markets. Were and we're back where we were with. Ge where you don't know if all company I goes down which bank follows it and which bank money which other bank and how that impacts back onto the banks in Austria and so you got this same slow situation of unknown risk in the finance system and that will also see the cogs of the economy starts to grow into a hole. Was there anything in the united that you wanted to say because all my questions exhausted fit my fears. I think probably the the last thing I'd say is that it's it's times like these when I like to watch and listen the people with long respect because again. I don't give advice but they have conversations like this and people like Roger Montgomery on your show recently. Montgomery's when I listen to you I've been watching rating lot of his stuff. Very calm very. He's an excellent devote. Jeff Wilson Formosan Asset Management Ellen Cola and weekly briefings and. He's PODCAST is good and obviously Warren Buffet. And Charlie Munger when they come out and speak as well. It's always with into and you can't feel quite isolated if you're an investor city by yourself so having these people talk to US cider speak even I might read. It came to be a good way of keeping you on track Ellen Collar and the money cafe it is skype podcast every week as well enjoying Thursday afternoons competitors. We shouldn't talk too much about competitors but They've got a nice lighthearted touch to the way that they trade in that does help make you feel better as well. It does not see you as a competitor for see them as a competitor Rogers role on the same wavelength of trying to help people to to learn about investing and to eventually break the shackles of pain. So many fees for forgiving people their money. That's probably the most important thing of of of that's why I do. And that's probably the most important thing I can contribute to this. Podcast US INTO OUR PODCAST. But please form your own opinion and working at what styles. It's you the best and work out. Where the you had to have the temperament and stomach for personal investing. And if you do great and if you would look for look for something with life as to invest you my and and also to the world goes on this is we're all about investing to improve our quality of life if it makes us if it keeps US awake at night and means that we can't enjoy it's not worth we need to allow through this whole process as well and continue to enjoy our laws trying to trying to be good investors fantastic. Thank you very much for dropping in China or I could feel and we'll just cut now to rob Gilmore. Who's GonNa give us his thoughts on oil prices and what's happening with oil at the moment as well Well it's not just the virus. It's the oil price and while the market's being trying to come to terms with the impact of the Koran of our outbreak for the last week and a half unsuccessfully mind you it was almost like the market took a king hit last weekend when OPEC filed to come to an agreement with regards to production cuts. Now we're going through a phase in the oil market where demand is dropping off because of a coronavirus and pick were trying to agree production cuts in order to could supply while demand had fallen now. Opec these days includes Russia and let me Putin decided not to cut production trying to go against basically what Saudi Arabia were pushing and the reason for that is because wants Roy. Us Shell oil to go out of business and he feels the best way to do that is to crush the oil price which is below the cost of production of US Shell oil and basically make them to fold on their debt and curb supply that way. During which time Russia Ken gain market share and ultimately prices rise and they profit from it so Saudi Arabia wasn't too happy with this and so they came to the Party and said right. Well if you're not going to cut supply we're going to increase it and we're going to drop the price so essentially what you've got now. He's a price war between the Russians and the Saudis by both have very low costs of production but how long can sustain this sort of price? War is is the big question. It's bad for share markets because any any shock causes uncertainty and volatility when you see the price of a commodity like oil full thirty percent. It has a dramatic impact on currencies. It has a dramatic impact on a lot of industries and a lot of industries that do depend on on oil and if you look at the ramifications of a lower price just on the US shall industry alone that has knock on effects into credit markets if they default on their debt then that causes further in credit which can potentially create some sort of contagion if you take the US shale oil industry the pots of that industry where companies are heavily indebted issued bonds. And if they default on those bonds that then has issues cause issues in in credit markets. And if you think about other industries that feed off the oil industry in the US like employment life. The contractors there are further ramifications in not only in the US but other parts of the world when you see dramatic fall in the oil price. It has a flaw in effect to Australia. Throughout gas produces where the price of gas is fixed oil so immediately your your product. Profitability of these companies has been effectively decimated because the cost of what they're producing has just fallen by thirty percent ships for the Guinness for information and educational purposes on. That isn't financial advice. And you shouldn't via Cellini investments based on what you put any opinion or commentary is the view of the speaker on the beginning. This podcast doesn't replace professional advice regarding personal financial needs circumstances. Oh Karen situation thanks to Christopher SUE MOSS FOR MUSIC PRODUCTION WITH THAT SPECIAL CURRICULA SHIPS FLAVOR REMEMBER. Musical wise flows even when the money went.

US Rub Gilmore Russia Your House Warren Buffett Australia ASX Mr Market GMC Tom Roy Australian Stock Exchange Corona Vars China Shell Oil Company Tony Elliott prostitution
Claude Walker - Ethical Equities

Shares for Beginners

34:17 min | 1 year ago

Claude Walker - Ethical Equities

"I can see. The biggest predictor of success is whether people are willing to invest in their own knowledge and understanding as an investor. If you're always learning and making sure that you're careful and trying to understand things better and become a better investor. Eventually you sort of get better than enough people that he could be classified as a good investor and welcome back to shares for beginners and today. August is Claude walk. Now you may remember Claud who appeared on our common investing mistakes panel discussion at share side as a real pleasure having back on good. I quote how I am. I feel. I'm well. Thanks how you always good now. Claude is an Australian small company investor. Who looks for the best opportunities at the small end of the Essex? His the founder of ethical equities and looks for profitable ethical businesses suitable to invest in. So how did you get caught up in this investing business court? Well that's a long story. Bought essentially I was initially very interested in renewable energy and environmental law. And I had to have a low degree bought eventually. I realized that the way that I could use my skills. Best would be investing and in trying to create alternatives for people who might otherwise invest in companies that caused environmental So that was a long time ago now more than ten years ago. I decided that I'd focus on investing and ethical investing in particular. When did you start ethical? Equities I think ethical equities. I started in two thousand thirteen now. So that's just a website where I write about some of my Stocks that I like and where I make mistakes publicly but also some of my successes and I look forward to the next evolution as well because I'm constantly trying to improve it and change what it is. At the moment we have a paid newsletter paying supporters. Which is Great? That's why put most of my effort at the moment so I haven't been publishing a lot. Okay so you're covering a lot of a lot of Shay's on this at the smaller end of the Australian Stock Exchange. Let's just just give us an example of one or two of the the stocks that you've you've looked at so my longest term holding is a company called. I think kit McGraw Education Centers. That's something I bought many years ago. Now it was a little twenty to thirty cents stop at that stage it had made a bad acquisition which really caused troubles they had to do a. What do they just to start? What it's in the name. I guess they do. These little tutoring franchises so actually a lot of people might have seen them on the street or in town. They just chewed a kids. It's mostly focused on bringing kids up to scratch so if someone is in full and they're struggling with MS English a little bit behind a really good place to take them to improve. That is keep McGraw Education Center. There have been doing it for fifty years or so now. The big thing. That's being the story with them. I guess over the last few years is initially. It was running away where the franchisees paid a flat rate. Over the course of the last few years they've been transitioning more to this percentage model which has the great positive effect of allowing McGrath and now spend more marketing and they get some of that back so two lines the interests better when they get some of that back. Yeah so the Franchisee or we'll grasso previously the franchisee would just pay a flat rate to me And then it didn't really matter to keep Magara that the mother company whether they were really successful because they're getting the same amount either way Gratifications was more motivated to grow the number of Franchisees. Now that's not good for the franchisees and it's not so good for kindergarten education centers in the end by aligning the interests. Kim Gratification Centers. It made more sense to focus on increasing the revenue of existing Franchisees as well as growing the network and once they've done that the economics of the business to improve gross profit increase for quite a few years. Now and I think that's my second or third because stock to really simple in some ways boring business but it has a lot of those things I look for for example at the time I avoid it was run by the founder Kit McGraw and his son. So that's important people have always said that. Look for a company. That's run by the founder and audit of got a majority ownership. Yeah it's not failsafe. Nothing is that's definitely something that I like to see. But it's a good step in sort of understanding. What motivates people you know. Their name is on the door central. So there's I like it when I can see that somebody has a bit of personal pride in their business. They're not just there to make money. You do often see successful. Founders tried to pass on a business to their children and honestly that's not a bad thing at all has mis mixed degrees of success but in the case of education centers if anything. I think the sun storm who's now the CEO. He's done really well in improving the business economics and making it a more attractive business to own shares in so I'm happy to continue to back him and and I do definitely not a recommendation but I still in Chas and this company. I think it's a good and I think it helps people's ultimately I'm happy to see an affordable option for people to get their kids up to scratch so that's a good story where the outcome was. Good what about some of the earliest? Where where have you gone wrong? Yeah right so there's a classic one he had like so many beginning our investors. I started out by buying a company that had a great story and a lot of hype but not so much success or even that much potential for success. It was called ceramic fuel cells. That eventually went to zero effectively. And I guess I was inspired by my perhaps naive love of sustainability technology and became interested in the stock for that reason now and the end of the day. I didn't lose all my money in it but I did make an investment where. I really didn't know what I was doing awful. It was my first investment. And I think what happened was the I fell into what I call the hype trap so beginner. Investors can easily get excited by the fact that they see shares of company. I'm being very volatile. They feel I could make a load of money really quickly. And then they start to believe in the story far more than any sort of valuation. Now when I buy a company I like to be up to understand how it's actually going to earn enough money to justify the market capitalization. I'm paying for it. I see people starting out buying stocks. They don't even understand what the market capitalization is or how businesses opposed to make the money they really just focus on the share price. That's definitely not an approach that I think is accessible. I've seen more people fail with that kind of Navy than succeed on but one really good way to stop yourself. Making a beginner's mistake is by being really cautious of hype and always trying to calculate the actual free cash flow that the company is generating now many companies. That have a great story that you might find on twitter all copper or something like that. There's really more than there cash flow. They may not even have revenue if they do have revenue they may have no free cash flow so they're spending far more than they earn and they'll be putting out market-sensitive announcements that you may not really understand that will. I'll give you an example of a company owned recently. It was cold. It is cold movie to healthcare and I bought shares in about one point one cents per share. It was very very small. Mccafe's basically has exactly what I'm talking about this on commercialized technology. That may have some potential. But he's not bringing in any money that they've done this sort of desperation capital raise so the the bargain-hunting me was looking for something. Like this McGrath telling you about where something's gone wrong and there'd be a week physician and the share price is really so. I bought it for that reason to my surprise it then not long after that after they finish this capital raising started doing much more speaking at conferences on which they pay to attend and I started seeing coverage of them in some publications online where I think also you can sort of pay money to the relevant paypal and they write articles about so there's going to be companies that are actually paying for exposure fading. The machine works that definitely a their companies that many companies pay for exposure and as a result of that often the shape. I go up because excursions usually positive and also you know they may have like a good story to tell but the people that are buying because of a story haven't heard of them yet unfortunately it really does work. They pay investor relations people. They can pay to conferences. They can pay to get coverage and as a result so many people hearing about them. You get a few of the influential people talking about them and suddenly the story becomes what people are buying into and and this is something that people have really got to be aware of. Don't they because it's a trip that and they and then what happens is self reinforcing? So the share price moves from one cent to two point five cents on the basis of market sensitive announcement which really doesn't ensure any money to the company at all. I think the announcement was insurance code for out their product. Which is tally train? Which is essentially a computer program. That can help kids that have attention deficit problems. The share price moves over one hundred percents. Suddenly it's on the most talked about stocks in copper and everyone's tweeting about and stuff like this. You have people pile on and push a price up and up and up and then it does another capital raising just a couple of months later at six cents per share so for the actual company itself that needs to raise cut capital kind of makes sense for it to tell people about this story. Get the share price up on raise capital high price. But if you're the person that bought stock actually went to ten cents. Which still sense shape doesn't it? Yeah but you understand market capitalization and the mafia capitalization had moved from three or four million to thirty or forty or fifty million. Can't remember exactly what it was now. I don't want to let you get away with using some jogging. You said capital rising yet. What happens with a capital raise capital raising them? That's an important part of watching. This hype is often to do with capital raising. So that's essentially when a company like Novita healthcare has this idea and it needs money to convince doctors they should use the products and prescribe the product rather than prescribing. Adhd pills and stuff like that and in order for that to happen they need to get the relevant regulatory clearances. They need to get insurance codes. Which is one of these ounces about that but they also need to let doctors know about it and tell them hey this is an option and also convinced them in order to convinced them they need to essentially fund studies about that proves it. And there's a whole bunch of challenges when you want to get doctors to start using your novel treatment. That's expensive and they need to get that money to do that before they can hope to get any money back and the way that they get that money is they sell. Hsieh's they issue new shares in their own company and sell them to shareholders or not if not existing shareholders than usual investors. So they did that recently at one sense than they did a bunch of publicity and then did it again at about six cents the market capitalization as the pizza and the like the shares are each slice of pizza so the pizza might be getting bigger. But if you're cutting it into more and more slices H. One sliced could be still getting smaller. And this is what's much riskier to be buying companies. That aren't making money because they're the ones that if they're not making money eventually they're going to need to get money from somewhere more often than not that is from issuing new shares so until the company's profitable or at least got sustainable. Free cash flow. It's going to keep on very slowly or very quickly depending on the case but at some right there's going to essentially be more slicing the pizza valuation TVN with. I don't know how I think that the pizza one's always the first way that I sort of understand it. Now that's a great model that will Will include that as the pay 'em so you're obviously dealing with people on twitter and subscribers and you're talking to them can you see if people are going to be successful and not successful as it is an investors so? I've been lucky enough to have people share their journeys with me quite a bit because I publicly talk about my journey and humans. A reciprocal being so when I go and talk about my successes and failures and how I've progressives investor every time I get people sharing the same thing back at me so this is no scientific survey. This is just what people have told me over the years and I can see. The biggest predictor of success is whether people are willing to invest in their own knowledge and understanding as an investor. I get people approach with all sorts of things but to extreme examples you know your mortgage broker who's heard some stock tip on copyright he says. Oh Hey what do you reckon about this stock and I can see from the tickets. You know some very speculative stock. I wouldn't even want to encourage that person to invest so I'll just ignore that message because I think that they're the kind of person that will ultimately lose money because they're just basically gambling and I don't want to be part of the gambling problem. They've had they've heard a chip. Is they get to them as well? It's not even a company that does something. It's just what you recommend this one. I don't know where they got or why I have no view on whether it will go up or down short term or long term. But I just know that they're not investing in learning more about the company about how to invest and how to invest better on the other hand. I get a lot of people who might have a theory about a certain company so say they've been following company closely and they've noticed that the founder has started selling shares. And they might say. Oh Hey cloyd I also own shares in push pay and you know I really liked the story and I think they've got great growth but I noticed the founder sold downshifts recently and he's stepping back from the business. You know something I should be worried about now without me necessarily having the answer to that question. I think it's a good question. And it shows that somebody's really trying to understand how they can invest better and how they can predict essentially whether a company is going to succeed and fail at the same time. You have people that are trying to learn more about the valuation side of things. One of the things I've enjoyed with my newsletter recently is by request. I've just been giving examples of how you calculate things from the primary documents so the latest few weeks. I've been going through. How you calculate the enterprise value of the company. How you calculate the free cash value of the company over from the primary documents which you therefore can make the necessary adjustments that data provided might not automatically made so these primary documents that's like annual reports and official things that put to exchange so the Appendix. Three happens to be where you'll find. The recent Shakeout is that is that what it's called the appendix three documentary looking at isn't it? Yeah so if you WANNA find the most recent number of shares on issue the place to look is the most recent appendix three B. Three is what they have to put out every time they issue more shares. So if you go and look at the annual report for that it might not have captured. The most recent Appendix Rebate essentially now Dada provide a sometimes quite up to date with these things. Sometimes they're not but one of the examples of went data providers and not to be relied on C. begins full for this trap. Time and time again is a Morningstar for example will not include a scrooge shares in their calculation. So as a result of that you get these situations where some small company often a relatively new listing. And it'll have some shares. Maybe a big chunk of founded shes thirty percent of the company escrow. D- Now the Hilda side the hillside and essentially because this happened. Ipo they're not even listed on six now the data providers. If you really understand data this is all coming through and inform listed this total shares diluted shares and also listed shares. Now I think its Morningstar or whoever provides COMSEC and a lot of the brokers with their daughter they just use listed shares in calculating the market capitalisation. But this is the sloshes of pizza. How many slots not counting all the slices So what they say is they'll say they'll get the market capitalization wrong when they automatically report that. So if you look into your concept and see and Click on the company you'll actually see the wrong market capitalization there so if people are just relying on that and then they say oh they might look at the company such and such company. Oh it has this much revenue. Maybe it has three million in revenue and according to thirty million dollar market CAP. So it's ten times its revenue and they might for whatever reason decide. That's okay but they might feel differently if they knew that it was actually twenty times revenue because the Macapa was actually sixty million. But there's many times we're essentially something like that is case because the market capitalization has not been calculated with all the shares on issue. Now you get those shares from the three that'll say this many shares escrow total etcetera. But if you just rely on the data provided you could be way off. And then one day they're gonNA come out of skirt they're going to get listed in the capitalisation. Just go up by thirty percent or double or whatever it is like that and it always blew my mind to see people investing their money or their families money but they don't even know the the actual market capitalization of the company they're investing in and there's so many little tricks like this and the people that succeed are the people that learn from those mistakes build up their knowledge base and able to then invest with an advantage over other people because there's this endless supply of people who haven't really properly understood what they're doing with investing so if you're always learning and making sure that you're careful and trying to understand things better and become a better investor eventually you sort of get better than enough people that you could be classified as a good investor. You've started investing in the show market now. How trades dividends distributions and franking credits? And all those other goodies. Just throw away. Those clunky spreadsheets with share sort. I have my portfolio and chair side and everything is automatically recorded shea side a place to extend a special offer to listeners of this podcast. Two months free. On an annual premium plan gotTA SHARE SOUGHT DOT com forward slash is for beginners and sign up now for a seven day free trial. That's share side dot com slash. She has beginnings. I'm just shocked. I've never actually heard this before about the appendix three Bay and the way of finding site when when you talk about are you talking about the market capitalization or the number of slices or the number of slices. So I'm just trying to get clear my head what you're actually saying here so what the three B will give you the actual accurate number of slices. Then you can times this licensed by the share price which is essentially the size of each slice and that gives you that gives you the real market capitalization. Dada providers do is they. Don't consider all of the license because some of them are listed on asx so when they report the automated little market capitalization that you'd see. Yeah that's wrong. Essentially the reason that I bring this is an apples insane but this is so common because I've dealt with retail investors for so long. Yeah they like. They'll talk to me and they they are good and they say hey. This is what I'm trying to figure out on such and such a little mistake there and the reason that I know this is because once way back I made this mistake but I learned from it ten years ago. I don't make that mistake anymore. And this is common is that you'll see it all all. The time is among sort of beginning retail investors. Almost as long as there's a company that has escrow shares If somebody sort of it's like a little bit of knowledge is dangerous thing because I think he doesn't misleading but I mean look the flip side of it is. I'll tell you for the beginning that I say run into trouble and satis mistake that I say is essentially Confidence so someone will say. Oh Look I've decided to one hundred thousand to invest and I'M GONNA PUT. Oh and I've now read about this company three P. learning which I like the idea of this software you know and maybe they've listened to other people I actually thought through. Ap Learning was decent myself but as inexperienced investor. When I was wrong about this one by the way when I bought shares in it I bought two or three percent of my shareholding of my father because I wanted to get to know the company. It was a relatively recent listening in these days. So it'd be floated with lots of fanfare as it turned out. Three learning provides software. So you're not too different from this tally. Train stuff where it helps train kids. So it's like mass games. Mathematics is the one that many people have heard of now. Actually what happened is this was sort of losing. Its edge there more and more free alternatives and there was some problems with the business and in the end it was actually floated at a very favorable price for the SELLA's so it was a bad by because I just putting a couple of percent. I realized it was a bad. By and then eventually reversed my opinion on it sold shares in it and then I lost probably apartment the exact amount but it would have been maybe around fifty percent or a little less but a decent loss on that one. But it wasn't too bad for me and the overall context because I only had a small amount of my portfolio in it because it was a risky stock. It was recent listing. However someone who's beginning name has too much confidence they put in town twenty percent into this company that data role of their overall amount that they're going to invest and then of course one mistake. Has this like really big impact? Where if you put in twenty percent of your portfolio into one stock as your first or second stuff you've ever bought and then that happens to be wrong call then you've lost ten percent of your overall portfolio. It's like really tragic. I tell the story because I don't Wanna see that kind of stuff happen especially when if you're going to start investing if you have one hundred thousand to invest you should be thinking of investing entire twenty thousand in maybe the whole year because if the market is about to crash forget the stock mistake. What if there's about to be another crash and you put in all your one hundred thousand dollars in one day and then there's a crash the next day you could lose thirty percent day now? Of course. That's very unluck unlucky? But I'm just illustrating the point. Many people would be better off dollar cost. Averaging so they buy they buy shares now if the market goes up and up those shares will go up great. You can keep buying says if the mask falls down you still got plenty of money left to putting it. Those lower prices So dollar cost. Averaging is when you would be deploying that capital at a wake at a time or a month at a time. Yes there's justified. So you might say if you were going to invest so when my father in law wanted to start investing he had a set amount of money and we sort of. I suggested to him that he sort of invest that over about two years over a two year period. And you know it wasn't perfectly done like clockwork whatever. But the point is he sort of gradually invested that now as it turns out that market went up during that period he would have been better off just putting it all in at the beginning. It's it's important in case something does go badly. But it's also important in terms of the overall success of that investor to take their time and not freak themselves out. That means that by the time. You've got your full amount of money. Invested Your Fool. One hundred thousand investing. You've already had a year or more of watching. How share prices going up up and down. You'll have made a mistake already. You probably would have hopefully had a success already and you already be getting used to the emotions of it like gradually by going in and also. It's an opportunity for you decide. It's not for you. What if you've invested you twenty thousand dollars or thirty thousand dollars or forty thousand dollars? Wow this is too much for me. I don't enjoy this. I don't WanNa keep up with the research. It's why I'm doing too badly but I don't Wanna I don't WanNa play anymore. Well you're better off having only invested in a little bit in that scenario and the other thing is it gives you a chance to learn about these companies Sir if you wanted to actually be a private investor. That's good at it. You need to follow companies for a period of time and look honestly. You don't have to be hands on forever but you need to give yourself some time to understand what you're investing and understand the risks and if you're doing it gradually that means that you might have putting two percent of your overall portfolio company and a year later you're like Oh wow. This company is doing what it says it's going to do a lot of big promises in its IPO. But it didn't live up to them at the very least you'll you wouldn't put any more in that one You may decide to sell so it gives you a chance to learn and one would hope for you to be successful investing certainly for me you're constantly learning and your hopefully constantly gradually just making better decisions overall the best thing you can invest in your own ability so it makes sense to have less invested whilst your ability is more nascent. I'm so one of the luckiest things that happened to me. I started really young so I didn't have a lot of money. I thought it with five hundred dollars as a university student and so some of my silly mistakes and the timer. I didn't pay attention to it for more than a year because I was doing my honors thesis or whatever it was that will happen when I had much less money and much less responsibility for what I was investing so I think it's. It's better for everyone if they do start slowly because by the time they get more experience then they'll be putting more money basically match match your risk with your experience and you'll be safer anyway if I can hit you with a listener. Question Says David from a listener survey and he asked. Why would an ethical invested by into an ethical company? You money doesn't go to the company to another investor selling out. Surely you should buy into a company you can change by questioning and voting an idiom essentially that series that for someone who's an ethical investor. It's actually just like a principled approach. It's about saying I don't want to profit from cigarettes because cigarettes whilst might be fun. Give people all manner of diseases. And it's a life suffering so for an ethical investor. You'd have to separate two goals of ethical. Investing one is that they would like to change people's behavior and hopefully make the world a better place other is they. Don't wish to personally profit from certain activities such as harm so the first example of this kind of ethical investing would be probably not the first but the most early reaching about example was the quakers in England who essentially decided that they weren't going to invest in slavery business now at the time. This wasn't so much because you know they were like because we're going to stop slavery it was just more like we don't want to profit from slavery because for them that was against God's word and personally didn't want to go against God's word. I don't think you can separate that thread from ethical investing for someone who wants to be an ethical investor. I think it has to come from a place like you. Just don't want to do it. I'm not saying everybody has to do this. It's completely obligation free for me. Personally there are certain things I don't feel comfortable profiting from so I don't want to invest in those companies now. The second is more practical which I also applaud. Look the answer is quite simple. It's when companies need to raise capital they benefit from having a high share price at the end of the day. A share price is the result of a supply versus demand. If you remove supply then the ship I saw we lower. The cost of capital will be higher and certain projects won't happen. Let me give you a practical example of where this there is a practicality for avoiding accompanying if you're coal company. You need a certain amount of money to build a mine and say you need one million dollars to expand your mind for example and you're going to get a six percent return on that investment now if the cost of capital to you is below six percent it makes sense to go ahead and get that capital and then invest in the mind if cost of capital is above six percent. Then it doesn't make sense to expand the mind. That's why I went. Environmental Campaign is trying to stop a coal mine that trying to eliminate source of capital for that coal mine. They're trying to say to banks. Hey don't do this. You know it's the wrong thing to do. And they're trying to say to investors. Hey Don't don't support this company because it'll make it easier for it to do the coal mine and the other thing that the other impression I get about your view of ethical investing in a lot to do with behavior of a company as well not necessarily that. They're doing any good or any anything bad but it's also how they behave. Yes it is that right yes. So they're I think they're actually. That's the second track ethical investing so there's actually a increasing buddy of suggests that at least depending on how you chop it. Sometimes ethical investors do better and I think that that has to do with the fact that people who work for companies that make the world a better place tend to have more success in those companies generally speaking a company that is focused on trying to save people from unnecessary medical outcomes. For example helping people be healthier happier. They're going to have employees that are more committed to staying with that. We're talking in general and they're potentially going to have a high level management. Who More concerned about how? Well the other shareholders do if you have a company that's in its DNA not really caring about how it affects other stakeholders because it's perhaps causing some kind of in the world. I've always found it interesting why someone would think that a management team founder. Who's built a company that hurts people? Why are they going to be really good to this small shareholders? I'm now of course this does happen there. Sometimes that management team happens philosophy toward shareholders. Which is I love him. And I do the best. Buy Them in a philosophy towards other stakeholders. Which is I? Don't worry about them. But oftentimes you'll have somebody who might be a little bit unfair to both other stakeholders in society and Thelma shareholders. So I think that's sort of trap that you can't avoid when you full companies that have positive impacts on the world around them. I'll I'll mention as well. The third limit Is in the face you charge your own investors and? I think that that's a real challenge for the ethic. Investing industry at the moment because a lot of the ethical funds have typically used that as a reason to perhaps charge more money to their own investors and you have to question the ethics of that in itself. Of course you know it's twenty nineteen. Now they're really ethical. Indexing at low cost you've got an increasing array of ethical fund manages. Now so you can look few different options. But it's something we're thinking about as well. Okay so tell us about ethical equities and how people can get in touch with you and avail themselves of your ethical services We'll so essentially the best way to get in get in touch with me is to find the ethical equities website and also launching a new website fairly. Soon I call called rich life That's the first time I've publicly announced it but already we've got this sort of subscribers. I rating that sort of assorted content. However you know ethical equities is the place to go to find me. You'll find my email address there. There's no big deal but we definitely try to provide as much information that can help people as possible and and you've got a track record in successful investing as well yes sir. I've been pretty lucky of started. Investing in two thousand and nine. So I've had timing on. My side also have picked a few great stocks which which of driven these days. I sort of focus on companies with The big ability to invest in their growth. That's why I like a lot of software. Companies and technology companies the the beauty of software companies for example. Is that once you have the software product you can really essentially replicate that at very low cost now. There is for big enterprise software implementation costs. But that's how you sort of judge between software companies. You look at. How easy is it for them to expand for those ones that don't have to spend a lot of selling implementation costs? They can have really high which sends on invested capital I've had a lot of luck. Investing in those kind of companies and along with doing my sort of deep dive researches well into product quality and and who's running the show in that kind of thing right. Thanks very much for coming along. Thanks for having rockville. Schist to begin his his for information and educational purposes on the. It is a financial advice. And you shouldn't buy so many investments based on what you've heard here. An opinion trees the view of the speaker on the shades for beginning. This podcast doesn't replace professional advice regarding pets. Financial Needs Circumstances Bukharin. Situation thanks to Christopher sue loss for music production special curriculum cliven remember musical as flows even when the money went.

founder twitter McGrath Claude Australian Stock Exchange McGraw Education Centers Claud Essex Adhd Shay McGraw Education Center paypal Morningstar Kim Gratification Centers Magara England
Deep Dive: How CoAssets lost its investors millions of dollars

Startup Snapshot

21:08 min | 6 months ago

Deep Dive: How CoAssets lost its investors millions of dollars

"In this episode is brought to you by unlocked asia originals video series that features to start startup seeing the best and brightest as they reveal the secrets to their successes more on that in a bit but first on with the show Hello and welcome to deep dive. A show where we discussed the biggest headlines to the startup up scene with journalists who broke stories. My name's net and today we're going to talk about an unfortunate incident took place in the last few weeks last year as if twenty twenty wasn't bad enough when singapore-based crowd funding platform co assets shutdown. Leaving hundreds of users who'd invested millions into the platform hapless. Here's technician editor in chief terrance. -ly with the story. Let's start with how exactly you found this story. Yeah so basically lawrence live which is the ex. Ceo east the sheriff. This both on facebook is facebook. Count vow this guy is allegedly a roth. Who is this guy. Well here's how limbs facebook post went. This fellow helped some. Vc made twenty times returns but left other shareholders slash investors who invested in co assets using their retirement funds and life savings in the lurch and rendered their investments worthless hundreds have filed their reports with the beliefs. If you have been affected please file your report with the police immediately. This fellow is getty. Go hashtag getty go be aware and be discerning of this what he got shadowed social that that was like the week or is this right. And what we thinking when you when you first saw the social media posts as pretty timing just bought to without break but i think quite significant in that he is right about these allegations on arriva. You know hiding behind these. Oh sherrie on his personal account breaking south right. So it's still that way so i'll be right right so someone's speaking of from public platform using personnel social media constant unusual. Yes it's unusual like most people they go through that they usually don't talk about. The bath thinks that happened at the previous company. And even if they do they will. Face is the deceit as beaks software. Who's who's seeks bad about visit poise. By this case. It was a bit different in that while the company was shopping down and the guy was high up at the company that he was at was just below the senior before we go on with the rest of the story. it's important to look into co assets. Background founded in two thousand thirteen co assets is a crowd investing site which allows us to invest in real estate projects that are listed on the platform investors. Money would then go through a third party account or escrow which would send co assets a cut of the transactions though. The company founded a little difficult to raise. Vc money in the early days of its founding likely because of the risks associated with peer to peer lending businesses getty go managed to list co assets on the australian stock exchange in two thousand sixteen raising the company. Eight point six one million dollars the following year it grew its revenue eightfold to four point. Two seven million dollars and made a profit of one point three two million dollars. One peculiar thing about the business that caught turns. Attention was the fact that the company's leadership ceo getty go and chief operating officer lawrence limb were ex military personnel. The that it's like a bunch of expletive is so the ceo was author ideology. Lawrence's actually is fox back with the avi so it's interesting that in right and i guess that's kind of unique in the sense that it's It's it's run by ex military personnel right. Yeah you'll see that law but things started to go downhill in two thousand seventeen and then gradually evolved thought that a lengthy off the ballot sheets. So that means is that they would basically find grace to loan the promissory so basically demanding money directly for investors investing that money into While projects the he sees fit up at the best as it would that interested principal. What's the jeff limb took issue with this approach because it led to situations in which investment risks weren't fully disclosed to lenders. They all coming disclosing the risks to vestis best. This basically will. I'm way of the new prophecy. About how for example this that east knows by that rocchi which means that. If the money's gone it quickly cool some of up to the the collateral. What many investors didn't know was that the bulk of their money was largely going into one company. This is suppose This this i mean the fact that so much money we lost just true. one company. That question is i think that is very unusual. Because ill the tackle proper you have guys like reading societies. Few on i mean. Everyone's struggling the whole bit he. Authored diplomatic space has been hit hard by those companies so standing so the this was a case of. There is some bitch with incomes of laughs. How the abachi. The lost c. Devolve rates these be that high. On top of that limb alleges that co assets continued raising funds without informing investors that the firms it lent money to had trouble paying back on their loans. Limb claims that he attempted to voice out about co s actions while he was coo but his efforts were in vain. Limb was stripped authority with his staff getting delegated away from him eventually in two thousand nineteen. He left the firm when he was so the coo objections with get e that author that he spoke about people who has since after that he can't even went through the ashes of the digital sets so by his talent. I think he is trying to what company you like. One because stink looking good while assets with limb no longer at the company thinks took a turn for the worse brighton based investment firm. That co assets owns a significant stake in became insolvent threatening to sink the business because brandon was to destination for most of co assets promissory. Note money with the added economic slowdown caused by the covid. Nineteen pandemic co assets eventually halted the trading of its shares on the australian stock exchange and later announced that it was being inspected by the monetary authority of singapore. Then in april two thousand twenty. The company had applied to delist from the stock exchange in an attempt to prop things up co assets issued notes in early twenty twenty backed by seventeen kilograms worth of gemstones. Initially they were valued at six million dollars though. Limb says they were a value at double that amount later however the gemstones were found to be worth a measly fifteen thousand dollars. What stood out was was this. A gemstone east maroshek coalescence was possession. Often there was an actual bombs right where questions though- those gems and supposedly worth a lot. My in what they will. I that you might not old management bible. What happened was that went. With the new management. To the top of the end we value e jeter still your fault shift of value. We'll be right back one. Learn from the best of the best in the industry. We've got a whole new technique original series just for you in unlocked industry leaders from around the startup ecosystem. Reveal the secrets to this. Our first season features one championship found their nco. Chatree don who recounts the formative moments from his childhood and upbringing. That set him on the path to entrepreneurship. Check it out at tech in dot asia slash unlocked now back to the show with co assets business in dire straits the savior or white knight as turns puts it swooped in in the form of one of the largest real estate brokerage firms in singapore. Dwi the firm was in. Sporadic talks to merge with co assets as early as late two thousand eighteen. Dwi was looking to start a finance arm and acquiring offered the business a shortcut to achieving that goal however in may last year go wrote a letter to co assets employee saying that it had no business at all and funding had dried up with a situation looking increasingly worrying for co assets. The merger became a desperate need. So go wrote to invest as asking them to sign off on an extension of repayment deadlines in his leather. He promised that the loans were contractually. Guaranteed by the wgn. It's director dan cohee in other words if the loans defaulted we would pay back the capital at the end of the year however investors received the latest annual report which revealed a staggering revenue drop and that co assets had sold off brighton where the firm had held most of its borrowings. Were editing e suspicious. Circumstances behind Agreements signed between classes. And wg which is A provident ristic company. They were in toss a budget agreement. Where of the wg. Without bill out some of the investors gary piece of the loads go had been working on a plan to divest thirty million dollars with debt which included a means for both shareholders and investors to salvage funds under the proposal co assets would merge with dwp and the latter would exchange properties in its portfolio for shares in co assets helping investors recoup their cash. And make good on the earlier guarantee agreement however he didn't stay long enough to see the plan through yet he is. The is that the documents Suspicious that claimed that he had seen documents that it incited the each other off. The doesn't batch you know the the director of the deal. Bg then severed ties with co assets and told investors that the merger was dead into water. We who'd left us role at twg. In december claim said no due diligence was conducted and that no sales and purchase agreements had been signed. Go a stunned by the move saying that he thought the deal still alive. Assets investors had a similar reaction was shock things going while and they they will definitely should by the guaranteed ewc supposedly site. That's what kept him with all this. What god they have to sign e extension of the yup zebedee is the last year the this awadhi loved them. Didn't do that. Get eagle the ceo. Who has its every site of. Even though that was had already been announced. Let's of the shot at. He was around the will of the shot at some of the assets. Loans have been sold to the to the at that you about right so basically in the why questions. Let's try to absolve itself of of the responsibility of me. Pay those slow. Yes i think that was what settings off. Eventually things reached the either pitch zeppelin look for that was around the time when lim posted on facebook urging affected investors to file police reports against co assets and go with shutdown investors kind of being very vocal about their anger towards The seal get to go did get the reply to any of these not make any statement of any sort so off the deloris. Gary shot to get On christmas eve school of responded to the allegations. Then what's interesting. Was that the week after that. He was a very detailed reply on of faithful on his face. Age spots to get down off. The i think he w trenton off of that and apologize right right and did lee. So he mostly laid the blame to deduct g which is why d the s s. He would try to be. So why the in this case you know he. He's he's definitely in the bath as it should right now because the best as i get up against the exit voice so either recently caught it right right and with. Dwi g. like a Are any of investors laying the blame on doodoo. Jesus will be suspicions reading best as the lot of will just learning about what happened right so i think they will definitely saw questions raised of even v. I think enough use of the it. Rather transparent is responding to investors so of the inca which is the the Yesterday's had been linked meetings with chat with investors to speed his side of the story. I was there at at one of the things reach insperity shallow soft documentation as basically why what is linked sets are they to discredit his fifth. You lucky spin convincing so The investors now they have no legal recourse to a get back any amount of money that they have basically. There's nothing that can be done like. It's it's it's confident dusted stories. That is the situation though. Guy is gonna be difficult to get money back. Maybe a civil suits with be auctioned explored by Expensive do that even so this. Get the money to pay right. This the The is anything you know that. What s or the was asked that can be liquidated to repay. Let's saga gate to the state. What they hope for is that the police will show of. South evolve it but Investigation the conflict at the moment. This still escalating go says that he stands ready to fulfill his obligations to crowdfunding and regulators and limb has vowed to continue his crusade for terence's full article on co assets plight and other stories on the asian tech startup scene. Visit tech in dot asia slash sub and become a technique subscriber. Either that i subscribe to this podcast where we're running deep dives every month. But that's it for this episode special. Thanks again to terrence. Leave for joining me. Let me know what you thought of. Today's discussion are what topics you wanna see discussed in future episodes email me at podcast at technician dot com or just comment where every listing from. I'd love to know what you think. Also we've just published another story for our third season of startup snapshot exclusive for all paying subscribers. Just log onto your technique asia account on our website. Visit the podcast page and you can catch all original stories of entrepreneurship struggle and hustle in audio form. Here's a short preview of our latest episode. It's august two thousand eight as osmani then. Ceo of air asia x is on the london tube on his way to meet with a european credit agencies for a pitch that would decide the fate of the malaysia. Headquartered long-haul budget airline little more than the year before this azran had started air asia x with the mission of providing travellers with low cost options for long haul flights but while as ron and his team were tirelessly launch the business the two thousand and eight financial crisis was brewing in the background. Everything fell apart because with the global financial crisis banks who even given you signed loan agreements for atp Financing back off right you you discover these clauses force measure and material adverse circumstance that. Give them a legal out. So you're stuck with a no financing available at no financing. means how you get new planes without new planes. How do you grow. Airline as ruin shifts uncomfortably in this seat. Trying to calm himself for the leader pitch. He needs it to go well. If he succeeds air asia x would live to fly another day but if he feels it's dreams for low-cost lol flights could be grounded forever. Catch the full episode on tech in dot asia slash air asia x till next time mines net. I'll see you in a few weeks.

facebook getty thirteen co lawrence limb jeff limb rocchi asia Nineteen pandemic co Limb singapore arriva terrance Chatree don sherrie Dwi brighton dan cohee
Vic Jokovic - CEO of Chi-X

Shares for Beginners

34:56 min | 1 year ago

Vic Jokovic - CEO of Chi-X

"If it gets to the point where you feel uncomfortable in all the right ways about the out performance of a particular stock. In. That's the point to say okay. Well, it's been a good run. A should take my problem, good I, and welcome back to shares for beginners on film mosquito. When we think of trading on the share market, we immediately think of the ASX. The STREAN Securities Exchange, but it's not the only game in town. There's another exchange called Choi X.. which is a competitor to the Isaac so I'm pleased to welcome the CEO checks. Vic Chaka it, however on very well, thanks, Phil thanks for having me on search Austria. Austria is an innovative securities and derivatives exchange, aiming to improve and grow the Ozzy Investment Market was founded in October twenty eleven and it since achieved I have a twenty percent market share of daily trades, as if the correct twenty percent of the little train. Obviously it varies, but we've had days where we've been over twenty three twenty four percent of all shares trade in Australia it averages yet somewhere between eighteen and twenty percent. Yup, and that's currently executing over one billion dollars in cash equities each day each day. I think it'd be. The average is actually higher at somewhere around one point five billion dollars on most days we will execute your strategy market. Put that into context doing somewhere around six to seven of which we do on the half and the. Does the balance near say grew up in Sydney's in a west. Where did you start thinking about finance well? Look growing up in a in a migrant family in Concord. you don't have a lot of exposure to to big business. You don't have exposure to shares there. But I suppose my first introduction to shares happened at university. Had A friend at the time. University of my first you there. Already investing in shares he introduced me to the concept, and and luckily my first trade was a good try that always helps. That you even if you have a couple of first tried don't go so well. You might shy away from it. And so that picture interest where you're doing finance unit at time I was. I was doing a bachelor of economics, degree and law. But I've just did the economics degree in the in, so you worked as a broker in the early days as well, didn't you? Of when the riding well I worked as I have worked as a broker, really mind tire career. So I started in the industry in eighty, five and really spent. You know thirty two of my thirty five years. Working for brokerage firms in particular Deutsche Bank. was there will was bannon company. Anyone that's. That's listening. will remember Bain as being one of the large retail broke or largest retail broker in the country. You're going back about twenty years ago, but it was taken over by Deutchebanks House there for twenty seven years. So long. Long history in in broking, so tell us about the days and the trading floor before a lot of listening to this podcast very young I mean most of the people listening around forty four years of age and they they think of it as all the numbers on the screen and the tickets on the screen, but it used to be an actual physical exchange people calling out to each other absolutely and a look. There aren't many physical exchanges left primarily north. America has the you can go and say the operation of a physical floor with operators and. When an ad is that with Chalkis people riding up the prices up on the chalkboard. In those days so going back to eighty five, when the first interesting thing was the the actual broken off itself, so you would have. Two to three. Brokers sharing one screen. You know computer screens were a new team, and so we'd have a lazy, Susan, and one screen with prices, and if a client called up, let's say three clients called up at the same time to the three brokers. You'll be fighting over the screen, so this concept of. A disk now with multiple screens. Mamo disc work has four was certainly not. Not a thing and then on top of that you had everyone smoking in those days smacked at workers. Yeah, absolutely. Ashtrays were built into the dealing this. was a completely different environment and the floor itself was. Luck any stock exchange floor? It's a marketplace where people come together. To buy and sell things so there was a lot of noise a lot of activity and if there was a big. I can recall many. Instances where you would have large deal going down for example when. Homes are court. Going to be. Not well known to the La- younger listeners, but there was a take bid for HP one individual unease company at that stage, trying to take over HP and the man of noise and energy that was on the floor. At the time you know, we were handling that trade at the time and our operator Paul. Day Green Bean. Emptied the contents, the rubbish out of the green bean put it in the middle of the trading floor and said right anyone that wants to sell their. Shares for any client of the firm at this particular price wrought number the number of shares and. The and your broken number pop the ticketing into the beam. So that was the way the deal was done, so that been quickly filled with millions and millions of shares tried it, but it was all very menu. Presumably, that was in a takeover bid. The buyer is trying to buy a set number of Shay's in in that company and these days it's all done on the screen, but in those days it was, it was like that it was physical chits and physical cheats and Open outcry and you had to be heard and you had to. Tell them what you were doing and. It was all written on paper and it was all processed. After that Helen did that process take to get up? In percent of the eighty seven crash and I was young broker at Visa W me is one of the big retail and institutional brokers. At the time the eighty seven crash, October eighty, seven, exposed just hair mental, inhale broken. The process was because mountains and mountains of of. SCRIP! Head your. Your shares were held on basically. Papa- mounted up in the offices of the brokers there, and and even from the events of October eighty seven, those tribes were not settled and dealt with for months in some cases they were never. A processed. Let's menu it was. That's amazing. So what is an exchange? An exchange is simply a meeting place in the same way as it's a market, it's a market for shares as opposed to a market for fruit. Or for any other goods I think of in Sydney's Flemington, markets. To meeting place where people come in and buy the goods. In the case of a of a stock market, aura or an exchange or an exchange, the ASX and sharks are way buyers and sellers come together to exchange shares. Corporate names and our other instruments as well well. That's a golden explanation. I love that Flemington market explanation of that in another interview I heard you talking about. The competition between KAYAKS. The six and there was a you made the comparison between L.. D. and Willie's is that kind of? The competition is working between the two exchanges. Yet look! A new new upstart. We'll absolutely. For the last. And this was the case in almost every major economy in every market across the globe. You've had one exchange for hundreds of years in Australia your head the. Really of head the Australian Stock Exchange in different guises. edney exchange in Melbourne exchange so a whole lot of regional exchanges they came together to form one Australian exchange near and for the last hundred and fifty odd years. There's been no real competition to that one exchange, and as you said, came in in two thousand eleven, and for the first time you head competition in exchange services and I mean everyone knows that competition is a good thing. The incumbent may not like it. The AIA sex might not like it. Word and calls may not like L. D. coming into the market, but for the consumer. It's a good thing because. It brings tension into pricing, and that's what's happened a are we maintain a good relationship with the I. Six? Butt heads! They are out competitor, but we also work with them on certain things we you know they are the Australian clearing and settlement facility, so we have to work with them, but we also compete with them so retail investor. Where would they see the name triax coming up? I mean sometimes enough may trade on COMSEC. For example you can see some of the trades with Essex in summer with giants. Is that the kind of place where it's pretty seamless, isn't it? It's very seamless so when any of your listeners when anyone boys shares. You'll get a confirmation from your broker that you've bought or sold out shares, and you aren't necessarily know where those share is. On what exchange those shares were purchased in the case of you, mentioned Komsic, for example Komsic actually send all of they tried or route all their tried to checks ahead of the is six, but only if the price you know, there has to be the equivalent price. And, if there is equivalent price, then it'll route to us I, but others will go to the irs six I, but for an investor they wanted to know in most cases where they bought the shares, and for example today. If you've gone by ten thousand Telstra shares, there's a prob probability that thirty forty percent of those Telstra will be bought on Chuck's and the rest on the I. Expect the yen buyer one now, so it's very very seamless. ooh! So triax provided competition on price whereas that price show up in the process, so the pricing child's came into the market, and there's a disruptor clearly used a L. D. as an example. And you have to has to be some benefit if we if we came into the market, and and charged the brokers, the same amount to trade on air exchanges the six then it'd be a whole lot more difficult to get any buying. So really the process. Is that you as the investor? Put Your tried on through your broker. And now if that broker can execute a cheaper prices on checks versus the six by the same shares by the same, HP real all the same shares that you buying on the ISU issue buying on giants, but you by the Baroque himself paying a lower fee and barlow. Face to those brokers have been as much as seventy eighty percent lower than the I six. That's partly because the has had a monopoly business for one hundred and fifty odd years, and so there was no pricing tension. And so we've introduced that by the way the responded and said okay sharks is dropped their face. We better drop phase as well and ultimately then the brokers. If you think about what brokers charge these days, you can try through COMSEC or these other online cats for. For for not law for really cheap commission fees. If you go back to twenty years ago? When there was no competition in exchange services, two to three percent was a normal commission, right? I was charging as a young brokaw radar clients two percent back in the eighties and nineties. So that's you know, think about that, and with a minimum order cost of one hundred or one hundred and fifty dollars, so if you were buying five hundred dollars worth of shares, you're paying one hundred dollars in commissions you paying twenty percent allies drive away. That world has changed, and that's really been facilitated by the competition in exchanges between two thousand eleven charges coming into the market today. Saving to the broken community of somewhere around two hundred, two hundred fifty million dollars has been passed on by lower exchange fees, and therefore Dioz passed onto the US through lower commissions, so we got you to thank for that. You've got. You've got competition to that. Yeah, that's a great thing. So you actually issue various cons of products on the exchange like warrants, an example can explain to the listeners especially for beginners who have never heard of a warrant how they operate, so warrants are essentially an instrument that allows you to take a position in an underlying. Share or Underlying corporate without paying the full amount for the share, so it's a it's a contract, an option essentially to be able to buy those shares, but with leverage so they will have to try and keep it simple. They'll have a strike price if the shares are trading two dollars, and there are two dollar twenty strike, then clearly you know unless that shared though those shares go up to twenty I have no value, but it allows you to use some leverage to buy shares, and there are warrant serve many many instruments and meaning corporate names in Australia. And The best way to learn about warrants us to start with the guy the warrant guide. That, if you WANNA trade, you actually have to commission to absolutely counter steps to literally because they are, they are. They are not complicated, but their level more complicated than simply investing in underlying shares, and you've got to understand that when you buy a warrant, if the if the share price goes up, and there's also a expiry period, so it's got to do that within the expiry period, so there's this a slight level more of complexity anti-us, generally a fairly. Not a difficult instrument to understand, but you need to take the time to to read the guards. Okay, let's talk about traces because this is the really exciting product. As far as some of our listeners would be concerned with, so you can actually with traces. If you can explain what tries to stands for show. You can get direct exposure to overseas direct investing in shares overseas. That's right so. Australians have Australians have always had interest in buying international shares, but the proportion of uses is still very low and part of that, and when our side low I think with Australian super funds less than one percent. Is held in doric shares in Australian Super Fans, so it tells you it's a very small proportion. Now part of that is that Australians have been very Australian centric in the wide I've invested property Australian shares been. PHP. Standards the stained. And some so much, so that fifty sixty percent of our Australian equities market the banks and the miners essentially, and maybe healthcare takes it to sixty percent with a very small proportion and things. Technology! So Part of the issue, then with buying shares directly is in the past. It's it's been difficult. To set up an international account. You've got to sit up custody account. You've got a sign. All sorts of legal documents nephew you to. Legal documents. Ben Forms a mean. The list goes on, so it's not straightforward then on top of that. You know commissions have been elevated on international trading. International, shares. All expand on that and. And you've also had a large heavy effects charges because there needs to be Nick Effects Conversion and you taking. The foreign exchange, an exchange here foreign-exchange retaking euros eight dollars, and you bind Jewish as they need to be converted into us, and there's a fee for that. These are generally big fe, and this is where I caution people number one. People investing. You know people that are new to the market. Don't ever believe if if you see an advertisement for Free Commission and I'm agnostic work at an exchange, but I'm just saying that you know enough tall this to my children. There's no such thing as free commission. They may very well be charged for the actual. Commission to bothers international shares, but all the fees will be wrapped up in something else, and generally that's the foreign exchange fe, and that can be heavy. That can be a one percent or more, so you buy one hundred dollars shares. You've already lost or given away a dollar just for the conversion and then when you come back out again, you lose another dollar. You've lost two dollars. Dollars on your investment so the thing about traces this product that we've brought to the Australian. Mom at Stanford. Transferable custody receipts they they are sent. Dire approach has been around for a long time and only nude Australia, because we only brought it in about a year and a half ago, Americans by nearly all of their international shares via something called an idea, an American depositary receipt. And that they are essentially what a tracer is! He is so for the last one hundred years. Americans have been buying if the American individuals in and investors have been buying their Australian shares, and the German shares, and their international shares vire ideas search trillions of dollars in the US yet in Australia. We've never had this product so what we did. Was We sort of? We sort of re-engineered that concept. We joined up Deutsche. Bank who are global later. I actually are the global later in in in those in those eighty our products and across the globe, and we issued these in Australia and we started back about a year ago with just apple. So this means that you can go to your ozzy broker. You can go to calm sick online, and you can buy an apple share during the day in Australia. Denominated nause dollars with the fx charge being wholesale right? It's like one one hundredth. Of A dollar a saint. A beep, and so the ethics charges very small, so it's a much more efficient way. To buy those apple shares than doing it through an international account. Now that's not taking what if you feel that you? You. Don't mind the process of buying shares through an international broker and the rest of it fine, but if you want ease of access, the fact that you don't have to go and fill, out forms. You can call your broker up today. And by now as we progress over the last year thirty, five of the big US names that I'm sure everyone listening will be familiar with you know from starbucks. To Walmart Microsoft. Think of any lodge US company McDonald's and even of light. We've added supermom covert. Corona virus. Related nine should have benefited from it like Gilead. Killiadts an interesting one because they're. They're the US, femme or health company that. Most people believe may get their first with the vaccine. Because! I've been involved in producing vaccines for things like a bola. For the SARS, virus, and other things, and then even accompany zoom. And you know the world is nail working increasingly from home and using zoom I do four or five zoom conferences a day, and you can buy zoom shares, and all these shares of obviously gone up a lot. That's not decided. They're not going to continue to to go up. We'll see where the world goes with covered, but now you've got access to these thirty five nine through these ideas stall structure. Vodka the traces and it's seamless. You call your broker. They send the order in this case. It doesn't go to the Essex in China ex-. It's because tried on as Charles. chives unique. And we've seen a reasonable uptake. We've had trading and all thirty five names some books. She hathaway the big use. A fund manager has been the most popular. Is the big. Little the little one the little. For the big, that's right, so it's. It's. Access, to a through those thirty, five nine actually got access to about close to half of the US index by market. Cap Boylan by by value the because you think about some of these big names that we don't have access to in Australia like Microsoft and apple, these companies are bigger on their own than the entire Australian stock. Ma Yeah Yeah. In terms of accessing these. It's like buying any regular stock. Is that correct? It's seamless. It's executive gotTA COMSEC or any of the other providers by one of these and the codes, yes. We should put Lincoln show nights as well to explain who people can access these and what the codes are because it's a concept I've never heard of until I've met your people from Chai before, and it's. It's an exciting way to get involved. Look US market, isn't it? Absolutely, it's innovative. Australians? We think we're not conservative, but what I've learned over of more than thirty years. In markets, Australia investors tend to be fairly conservative in their wide I think about new products. I think the uptake is quicker in markets like the US. But so completely it's a new product, but it's something that's been around for one hundred years, and it's very straightforward. One tracer equals one share in whatever you buy dividends. Come to you in ozzy dollars. You brokered doesn't need to reset you up and importantly one of the key features is they. Sit on your. Hin y'all densification number. They're identical twin the shades, so it's not lucky to have different reporting. Your broker will be able to give that all to. To you in one report respect before about chatting with your kids about investing what some of the data advice that you give them. Well main of had There's been a lot of interests. I have three children. They're all university at the moment, said not exactly cashed up. They're still relying on the Bank of Mom and Dad, but I've I've been working and I've got some savings and my middle daughter, and Massana both interested in buying shares and. Win The market came off in March. We were talking about whether they should or shouldn't invest. We were looking at some traces. We've had one investment in a trace who are already from the kids yet, but the way the market kicked back up. My advice to them as being to be patient. And to be cautious. And in the press of light, saying that what we have noticed is a massive uptick in the amount of day traders in the market now as an exchange, we love volatility, and we love activity, and we love the heightened volumes. That's good for us, but also caution. Everyone listening that. Day Trading. Can it can? It's not always a positive experience, so a short term investment should always be considered to be longer than a few days or a week. Short term investment in my mind is three or six months bit and along a long-term berries. Let's keep it in a superfund for years. And generally when you do that, you make money if you've got quality nine times in the generally these things if you pick the right names. At the quality end of the market, then you will do well. But you may not. If you're expected to go up within a week over to Serb, be patient and also be cautious in the way you invest cassava. That's something I council listeners. All the time I've got a facebook group and people start coming in and going. What do you think of Xyz? She and I always say well first of all. We're not giving any financial advice, but. Having seen the demographic of the listeners to this podcast, all I can say is that they've got time on their side, and that's the greatest investment tool is an absolutely there is. There is no rush there will be. If you look at charts, there will be buying opportunities. There will be selling opportunities we we see some of the I panic and other investment products. You know it's talk about property at the moment. You. Do you sell it? These things are cyclical there. and. There will be opportunities and the Nice thing about the share market is. It's far less uniform than the property market property markets in places like Sydney tend to be uniform. It goes up and everything goes up house in Balmain goes up. It's more than likely that houses in crows nest to going up in the share market. What we've seen Lumpia, isn't it? It's it's much. Lumpia and actually dispersion the difference in performance in sectors through this covert crisis has been different to almost anything I've ever seen before, so if you go back to the of saying in my case, if you go back all the way to the crash of eighty seven, the market was much more uniform in the white reacted in. In Eighty, seven in other crises like two, thousand, one, two, thousand seven. It tended to either. Uniform why go go down in those instances what we're saying here is massive dispersion between sectors like technology up significantly healthcare pharmaceuticals up significantly travel travel down significantly. Rates property. Related names down banks down so when you look at the market. It's incredible. The amount of outperformance in some of those sectors underperformance in others. So there are there are going to be opportunities probably going to be opportunities with those sectors that have underperformed as well. And another interesting point around that is that because they are market has so little. The Australia market has little in the way of technology names. Know when you compare it. What the US market for example you need to be very careful. The S. and P. Five hundred has a large proportion of these technology driving huges. Absolutely I can't remember the figure, but it's huge percentages. And versus air market that's. Down in the single percentages are being driven by these tech names. And so. Trying to draw some sort of parallel well, the US market is up and we're down is probably not the right way to think about it think about what drives our market and we sit earlier in this talk that. That The Australian market has a large composition of banks. In particular and minors will, the banks are dragging market down. Performers, whereas in the US tick, tick dragging the mock it up. What about with the kids have you ever had the experience of this? Some of their parents get them started in the share market and the kids after six months a year. See a capital gain, and then they think are I'm going to buy a car or something like that. Have you had come across that? I have and other. Kids or any different now than they were. Than I was as a kid or Some Golden. Is An object. You wanted to buy a May here. This concept of long-term investment doesn't sit well with twenty or twenty five year old because. You know there's there's other things that they need. And you just sitting up in life, and you know you're. In. You're in your thirties. You're trying to buy a late twenties. You might be trying to buy a home. So selling shares is probably an avenue for that, but again. That's not to say that you can't come back to it but I. don't think it's any different now than it than it was before they'd be a difference between selling to by Sarah then. Selling to put a deposit on a high. Speed. Is a big difference in that. But if there's a need. Then, I'm sure that they'll sell what needs to be solved, but you know what I would gain. Advises if you can possibly hold onto those shares and a gain, a quality portfolio, something that you comfortable with you talk about some of those big brand names. You know over the long term you're going to do well. You will do well particularly if it spread across a number of nine because. The the those outperformers would if they quality would generally. More than payback, any one or two of those names that may not do so well. You've got a lot of experiences, broker and with clients. What's the worst mistake that are they? You've made, or you've seen someone else. Mike in terms of losing money. And what what? What's the learning? That's come from that most. Professional investors. And Trade that I've dealt with and dealt with many fund manages and. Work with many traders over the years will always they'll always be one thing that they come back to is and that is taking their prophets too soon. Not letting a winning stock continue to do what it's doing or a a stopped performing just getting at too early, and then on the flip side of that. You have in mind a stop loss a point which. Share that you may have bought bought. That's gone, Selah actually making a call on getting out of that stock can be difficult. There's no winter no winter throw in the towel. No into throwing the tail and every trader across the glove will uniformly say the same thing. If you're disciplined than and set your boundaries, you'll generally do pretty well. It's interesting you say about letting your winners run, because presumably, if done the correct research and you found a stock that is performing and has got many reasons to keep on performing. Why would you sell it anyway? Absolutely I mean if that changes. And again. We're not here to give advice an. Advice as well, but in terms of actual shares to go and buy, but. There are there are names that if it gets to the point where you feel uncomfortable in all the right ways about the performance of a particular stock, and that's the point to say okay. Well, it's been a good run should take my prophets. There's nothing wrong with taking prophets. If. Feeling uncomfortable about the amount that underlying shares run, there were about some change in the fundamentals of that of the of that stock. Again covert has shown us. You know the blue chip investment in in in the banks. It's always been seen as a pretty bullet bulletin roof, but things can change and change quickly, and and the banks will not have an easy time of through this crisis Yup and I haven't had an easy time. It's spring terrible for the next for years now. And then, and that's the point. They were themes there was they were. Stocks were under pressure product Covid for all the right reasons that the you know. The covert issue has just accelerated. Yeah, a raise not to be those names big jock of it. Thank you very much for joining us and she s for begins police. Phil. Thanks the company end August has contributed to the costs associated with. With producing this episode of shares for beginners, triax is the holder of an Australian markets licensed to operate a financial market in Australia. Any information is provided for informational purposes. Only it's not intended to financial product advice under no circumstances is it to be used as a basis for or considered as an offer to engage in any activity or purchase or sell any security, or as he solicitation or Of the purchase sale or offer to purchase or sell any security today, extent permitted by law giants makes no representations, warranties, and excludes liability in relation to the information provided Jesper begins his information and educational purposes. Only it is financial advice and you shouldn't buy Cellini. Investments based on what you've hood, he any opinion or commentary as the view of the speaker on the chase for begins, this podcast doesn't replace professional advice. Regarding your personal financial made circumstances book current situation. Thanks to Christopher Soon Moskva music production with that special Greek. Delicious remember musical waste flows even when the money went.

Australia US Sydney ASX apple Ozzy Investment Market STREAN Securities Exchange University of HP Phil Chalkis Essex Deutchebanks House America Austria Isaac Deutsche Bank.
Tony Kynaston - What's an LIC?

Shares for Beginners

27:13 min | 9 months ago

Tony Kynaston - What's an LIC?

"What do erin brockovich. Captain sully sullen burger and astronaut captain. Scott kelly have in common. They are all ordinary people who have achieved extraordinary things through the fire of adversity. Twenty twenty was a year of survival for many industries and to help. Businesses thrive in a post pandemic world. Safety culture is hosting a free. Virtual event live on november eighteenth with an agenda packed full of some of the world's most inspiring people to help you dream big for twenty twenty one visit safety culture dot com slash summit to book your free ticket. Today i am welcome back to shares for beginners where we're welcoming back. Tiny coniston from the qa investing podcast. You might remember from previous episode now in discussions we started talking about. Tony is a big fan of villas. Get i- tiny going. I feel i realized we haven't spoken much about lic's which are listed investment companies. And we've had plenty of listeners. Ask what is l. c. So let's get started and talk about what's the difference between an atf and lic. They both traded on the stock exchange and both basically fund and and so there's different types of funds as index funds. There's managed funds. There's people who are trying to beat. The market with particular funds niche funds investing in property or gold. Or whatever so you can basically by each year for us investment company to suit. Whatever you're trying to do the reason that there's a big difference between atf's lic's in that in the side. When the fund manager launched the wasted investment company they raised money beforehand. And they don't add to that money as you bind so shares in the company that money stays invested in it and it grows all drops according to how they invest on the atf. Side they wrist on the share market. But then every time. Someone buys a share. They're adding to the phone. That's invested and every time they sell a share. The fund manager has to sell some underlying assets and pay out the person who's exiting. Let's look at the gold atf. I think we started talking about this a while ago. But the gold. Atf when you buy unit in gold atf. There's vault in london and someone's shoveling bit more golf into it in most cases in some cases and then when you sell your units in the atf. That little bit of goal gets taken out of that vibrant. Yeah that's how it should work. That's that's an open name. That's how an open ended here and there's another complication that some people don't voronin the physical asset of gold but the atf owns futures on the london metal exchange or something similar which track the goal process inside. Don't don't be fooled into thinking that you're actually buying gold if you're invested in what's called a synthetic atf. You'll you'll buying the trading of options and futures on on the medals exchange began bit complex shot to however that does speak to the point that someone who's looking at buying anything. Atf say whatever exactly what is being invested in correct feel safe about one way of doing something but not the other correct and so. You're getting back to the difference. Oh listed investment companies closed funds and atf's funds and. i think there's a risk in kiev. Which i don't think it's been highlighted in the market and i'm not saying it's going to be a catastrophic risk but you need to know about this before before you put your money into it and that is that like i said before the atf's if you want to sell you. Shares have to sell shares site and index fund index at bullet. Let's say it's an eight six two hundred eighty s the most common one that we would be talking about and they're going to earn the top two hundred shares on the australian stock exchange in proportion to how they appear rectum. And that's how he makes fun work so they hold the basket shares and again bear in mind. Don the younger launches they earn options futures on the asx two hundred as a number. I didn't realize so that bears synthetic and there's the other salt which actually own the shares underneath. And i think the risk in that kind of structure is that it's great when it's going up because if i if i by sharing that two hundred eighty if they'll often buy some shares and php an old bawd today's in reaon banks and that that's how they use my money but then if say so the market turns down which will does and say it. Drops precipitously twenty twenty five percent of other people who are invested in those funds are gonna get nervous and again to sell their shares that. Etf the way that the manager of that etf can get money back to you. As if they sell the underlying shares and bhp in the banks and the other members of the two hundred. So you get this feedback loop where hp in the banks dropping anyway. But then there's even more pressure because the index eight years have to sell be in the banks to fund the person leaving the fund that's different though hell listed investment company works so listen investment companies. What's called the close found. So if they fought with one hundred million dollars per one hundred million dollars invested and if the market drops twenty five percent and the fund. Manager the sarge roy there. It's as if i want to sell my share on the find the buyer on the market. He wants to buy off me said just that one unit of the correct investment company so it's the shares which traded and not the underlying assets. Yeah yeah so. That's the probably the biggest difference between. Atf's send lucid investment companies. There is another dimension of investment companies which occurs because of that nature. And that is that i can buy. Shares in the lic for more or less than what. the underlying fund is worth and that gets reported every month on the six all of the all those investment companies have to tell the asx what the mta the net tangible assets which is basically what the value of all their investments worth and if it's a fund of shares. That's pretty easy to do. Because i just at the end of the month also will this much. Hp found it's worth as much and semi fund is worth x. Dollars divided by number shares on issue my funds with adult on my my interiors. All but in some instances i can go on by the investment company at ninety cents on the dollar or it could be asked to to buy the door twenty when it's worth a dollar so one thing to be aware of with us an investment companies. What their interiors. And it's readily available boggling. You can just look at that. That's very easy to the others. But that's a great opportunity if you're on a share market investor and you want us to dp toe into doing it yourself is every month you can. Google listed investment company reports. I'm morningstar has one and it will tell you what the is the end of last month. And what the share price was and whether llc's trading above or below its value and being an invest royal was one of the pilots. And we'll i think something's worth and so from time to time i'll think what so. Listen investment company. That's it's going to be around for a long time in trust the management and at selling you the discount bossom and when it tries out to. It's this can thrive rich. This can't sell it. And that's kind of a nice way to get into the market as an investor because you're doing evaluation. What's being done for you quite easily in the report. But you learning to say okay. I can actually buy dollars. Worth investments for eighty cents or seventy cents or ninety cents and white to what gets up to a dollar will sell the money and there's all sorts of different kinds of. Aren't they. There are the not necessarily just going to be buying one philosophy across range of lic nowadays lots. And i don't know if they get right. I guess i do get down into the sort of about gold and things like that. But but generally they're around six companies and other either trying to track the index like some of the big ones or they're trying to beat the index if they're an active management fund or. They're focused on global chairs. So there's all these hundreds of them around the the ones that. I put friends in the for franken. Family member comes to me and says what should i do with my investments. Also go and look at some of the big three and there's probably maybe a big six to look at but generally some of the the lic's which are more index oriented tend to try to their in ta so you're spending a dole on getting a door and then going forward you're getting the market index movement and so things like australian foundation investment has been around for one hundred years and the benefit of of buying into listed investment company like that. He's the phase socialize. They they don't they don't call them fees because they don't charge fees the management expense ratio. Which is the which is the cost of running the fund and that i think surround like point one five of a percent at the moment so you can buy speak yoy by call. Managers who are buying the largest stocks in the index and trying to get the index return for a dollar and get adults worth of those underlying shares. And you're paying point one five of one percent every year and face. I bug her. All and dividends from the investments that they hold they pass through. So you're going to get good yield and you get market return and that's That's quite comparable to the phasing. Atf isn't it. Yeah yeah. They're both very low again. It depends on the list of investment company or the atf. Someone like jeff wilson and his face charges management team performance face. I used to pay a lot more. And he's he's banking on beating the index hundred time and also i think of us guys paying a high yield. So he's he's he's a stable of this. Investment companies is quite attractive to retirees. Who you know. He i think he generally yields nine fun about six or seven percent dividend. But it's you don't always get to buy his investment company abdullah those with of assets. I think he's trading about fifteen percent above that at the moment but there's been talk i his listen. Investment companies trading at seventy cents in the dollar for their assets like after the gfc. And you just wait for it to regression to the main record so you wait for the investors to get confident again into by listened investment company and eventually the share prosecutes back up to the the net tangible asset position. So how does it fit into your qa. The qa philosophy. It doesn't this is just a separate totally. Occasionally listed investment company will meet mark ivy checklist. It's rare in the company but most times they don't so i'm not saying don't buy them on that basis but generally i'm looking at the net tangible assets and let me talk a little bit about well i call all the investing ladder so i think is kind of four steps for anybody who wants to get into the machine and the first step i think is investing in index funds. So that's the simplest easiest way of doing it ebayer. Atf source investment companies. I would buy investment companies because they closed in funds generally a big index fund. I will probably try around that same ta you. Don't get oftentimes the big movements movement side but that's fallen so if you're the kind of person is busy with alive. Has some money to invest is happy to get mockup. Return then do that. That's the first step on the investing layer and kind of quite that with people who buy their own house most people at some stage of my investment in in a house they understand. I'm buying something for the long term. I'm going to get the sort of property. Market return generally over the years and on put a favourite of money into it. But once it's down move on with my life and that's a bit like putting your money into a loose investment company that hugs the index. That's the first step. The second step in the investing layer there is looking at the discounts. And sometimes the the overages for the price against the and buying them when they're undervalued. I'm waiting for them to climb back up to the mta price and that's the second step on the ladder. So i'm starting to understand head a value a company and i'm starting to look for undervalued companies and by those. That's the second step the third step and again if you were doing that. I'd stick to the larger index nine funds because sometimes eighty s and listen investment companies. Tried to discount for very good reason. They might be shorting the market at the wrong time for example inside the the reason they tried to blow their anti is that people think there are going to go down so stick with the big ones in and again the the morningstar investment company report lists the market capitalization the worst investment companies. You can see what the big ones are. The third step is to realize that if i'm bond index fund i'm basically buying about twenty or thirty stocks on the show and i think from memory something like seventy percent of the is six two hundred by market cap. He's in the top twenty. So you focus on those top twenty stocks and start to get an idea for yourself about the ones you want to investing not you can put together. Your own. index can put together an index fund. Any way you can just come by the top twenty stocks every year and as and chicken either monthly or annual basis as one drops off the essex twenty sell it and it was one comes in you. Basically doing your own index fund investing. But you're not paying any fees and you from the brokerage from the brokerage buying an app but he using com share retrial log. So the cost. So that's all costing next one and step foreign leather saying hang on on buying twenty stalks. The banks add to that index or read. I don't think that to that or whatever. The stock is start. Take a start to take an opinion about which of those twenty stocks are going to go up and just by those and if you sort of step up that that those four rungs things you kind of become an investor at the end. You've done it. Just on the index we twenty stocks. But you sort of learn as you go. And i would say if you do that you can then go on and say okay. Let's look at the other two and a half thousand stocks on the share start to form opinions about their investable. Unwanted guests are fish. They start to stink after three days. So what's the best mattress for them. This holiday season definitely not a nectar. Then they'll never leave. Flip those fish your old mattress and put your human body on a nectar prices. Start at just four hundred ninety nine dollars and you get three hundred ninety nine dollars in accessories thrown in a three hundred and sixty five night home trial and a forever warranty a fresher deal than your macaroni mother-in-law right go to nectar sleep dot com today Let's have a look at some more of the One of the other big. You mentioned epic. it's f. It's usually nine as isn't it. Fair following the code nine australian foundation and bits. And that's very much it's an. It's an all day long. I say and Lots of retirees of depend on it for metro. It might have been around for as long with the stock market. Pdf for a long time and it used to be associated with stockbroker. You fem code. Gb we don't know. If i think maybe we was boy up by national bank or something along but basically the board of of australian foundation investments is blue chip stockbrokers and really they just try and get the index and to provide a way of in nutrients called is an orphans to safely invest in the market and another one as well as i goes another one as well the the ones there's milton which allowed one. It's not quite as old but it's a it's a big one too and they all do slightly different things. Some some of them will try and gain a slight advantage over the next. I might write some options to try and boost their itunes. But mostly those ones we'll try and keep a portfolio which equates to the the largest stocks on the market so we haven't really covered options on the podcast high. I think what they do. And i really am speaking from ignorance. I think what they do. What some of them do is i'd say. Well we've we've invested in the underlying shares in the six two hundred. Let's all side. Buy some options about the shame at going up and mike in some options about the market going to that for you and i try and by trying maybe tweak. Caleb bit more performance than the index by doing that. I'm not an expert on all i can think of. Is i think. Warren buffett said if he ever leverage the berkshire hathaway with being bankrupted twice. And that's always in the back of my mom when people ask average and things like that one of the other ones that the that i've always been interested in because i've walked down pitt street mall and saying that it's not there anymore. But w h insult patents and kansas and everyone thinks of them as an all chemist shop. That's been there all my since colonisation here in australia. But they're also say as well by seoul pants around for a long time through and it's so sol's the canada. It's run by. I think the nine robert mueller. So he used to run the chemistry and these. These family ran the chemists and they focus on their investment fund. So i think the history of these that they may have. Lots of money ended chemists and they had to do something with it so they started to invest in the sharemarket that grow and grow and they said they decided to flow to make it available to other people as well to invest alongside them. So that's someone who's done well. He's from what i understand. He's a big fan of warren buffett and follows the general principles of quality and value. Investing as well. I think they just sell that property pit. Straight mall has just eventually became so valuable but patrick tradition took a backseat right. I'm not that familiar with salt. Patents and i think i just think fair for memory that they they allege holding in tape. Aj senegal tillett telecommunications and whitehaven call. They called as they work. They call is because i know that one of the biggest shareholders was spun out news called new hope coal and that's newest of separately on the stock market. It's new habits not whitehaven. Yes new york other favorite says you'd like to talk about yes so three We spoke about wilson asset management before. So that's jeff wilson's coal offering and again. He's he's trying to buy undervalued stocks. So he's he's really doing chairs on the share market trying to find one he calls it which have a catalyst so he might find that. Something's undervalue but he's looking for a catalyst event that might happen to write the stock and so he goes real process of doing that. And he's had great. I think i think the assets and he's found of grind something like seventeen or eighteen percent perennial long period of time and it was. It was funny. I remember buying into watson asset management twenty years ago more and he's always been great and these communications and he came down to melbourne. We're used to live. And i think the ten year and he he spoke to us. And not when you in our last minute. I was going to the management at the western insignia and it was like cite five thousand people. There are probably two thousand people so it's just growing and growing and growing over the years so this wasn't management and again i'll be paying very careful attention to its discount or average to it's tangible asset before invested enough but i have gone in and out of way over the us and i keep a very small shareholder about two hundred shares just through the weekly emails and go along to the presentations and things bobby the back into that when it was trading to discount again another one i want to mention is called hearts and minds so if anyone was interested in investing they would have realized that recently there was a thing called the sign hearts and minds conference on in sydney. And that's where the victor. Chang secure has raises money by getting manages to come along and give their give their a hot tips on one. Stock that people could investing. And that's become something which is patronised. Well and i think the tickets sell for about two or three thousand dollars and people in the funds management industry go along to get these hot tips for other people but in the last year or two someone set up a fund listed investment company. Take these tips and invest in it and some of them around the world and some of them a local some of them shorts in some bars and have this investment company. Hold those tips until the next conference. And so that's that's one again. That i think i believe it's a charity. As a lot of the phase go into charity and that kind of leads into the third one which is the current is f g x. And it's another one by jeff watson but it's called the future generation fund and that's where he has adopted the same methodology normally adopts these other funds but he gets fund manages to come in and their fees to charity so this non performance fees on that fund august charity and and they've raised millions of dollars out of the east for charity by doing that as well as having having a well performing listed investment company. Do you have any thoughts about ethical investments at something that people are so interested in these days it is yeah and again it comes down to style years ago my stockbroker said to me. I love ethical investing. Because i can take out the four or five beds locks on the share market and basically have an index fund in charge twice the fees and. That's very unethical. So you gotta be careful about these things but again. I think i think he'll investing you've got the diving toward bit bitten. See what kind of fun of these because there's negative screens and positive screen. So there's negative screens which are like well. We just we just wind invest in companies. That do what we think or anything things but will invest in the rest of the market. Its positive sprains where the funds set up just to invest in things which are doing good in terms of ethical standards. Whether it's environmental whatever else you know. Maybe they Medical research for example. Something so there's two different types there. I'm agnostic because as an investor on again on saying well is that is that fund worth investing is at trading. Listen it's net tangible assets or is the fun gonna come through check the score and be something unprepared to invested. So i don't tend to invest in them but i'm not saying i wouldn't not sign people shouldn't but they just got to keep their eyes open next for you. It's an extra level of complexity. I guess we also know. It's it's an extra level of fees it's always that yeah and if you think about it somebody who's doing a positive screen spent time and effort investigating company. So they're going to charge a fee for that which is quite valid. And if that's your thing pay the fees but as an investor audra not pay the fees and do it myself so again i i could put together a portfolio for myself which only invested in things like wind energy and medical research and all those kinds of things and if i saw him the to do that. I could do it whether i could do that. And still be a good value investors debatable. Because as you say if people are interested in than probably the price on wind farm companies going to be above all. I think it's worth so. There's that and also to being being value investor next contrarian investor so sometimes the things which are cheapest in the market cheap because the ethical investors selling them so i let coal companies for example. And then you have to make up your own mind about whether you want to invest in coal companies on. But but i certainly at the moment of appear on my list of things to buy because they a bit beaten down by the market using the metric of net tangible assets behind an l. I say that you've found this to be a decent way from making some good returns over the years the period of investment. i have. Yeah basically you're dealing with the same. Lsat wartime saket tonight tonight. And i'd be looking at something which was at least fifteen percent blowing tangible assets before i bought it and sometimes i get world above that well below that and i'd be either selling when reaching ti or just waiting to see if i go above ti and holding on until i get ten or twenty percent above in ti and that if that happens. I have a reasonable timeframe. You getting thirty to forty percent returns. Maybe over a year or two as the market sort itself out there says you tend to avoid on a regular basis the hi fi paying once year so i wouldn't go into those the ones which are your although hearts and minds is used for ones that have been around for a long time that and that's kind of a level of trust yes that is available because they have been there for that that you hear exactly and i think if you're you to this game and certainly stick around those big market cap to the being around for a long time and you can find out this information pretty quickly goodwill morningstar investment vestment company report. They'll have the market cap for. They'll have the in ta discounts. Just a couple things on that thought. I'll provide you with to discount. Columns one is called the pretext. Ti discount them once called the posting ti discount. The difference between those two columns is basically what the fuck is worth if you had to look if you just value the shares and the the pretext one and if you had to sell everything now that's the post tax one because you'd be paying capital gains tax on those shares mostly would focus on the pretext calling because if i'm buying australian foundation investment or a big l i say that is hugging me index. They're gonna buy and hold for years and not have to sell the they share so they're not paying much in capital gains tax so the pretext. Ta's the more the the one. That's different for jeff. Rossen has a fun called the walsum active fund and they trading all the time. So you leave the with that one because they beginning capital gains tax needs to be paid during the year. So horses for courses but largely the hubby index gopher the pretext column great. Thank you very much for joining us. Yeah well hyphen. that helps. And it's great that people sort of learning about this stuff and i'm really hopeful that more people can do it for and avoid phase and become comfortable investing chester to beginners for information and educational purposes. Only that isn't financial advising you shouldn't buy or sell any investments based on what you've heard here any opinion commentary is the view of the speaker shades for beginning. This podcast doesn't replies professional advice regarding personal financial aid circumstances current situation thanks to christopher sue lhasa music production with that special greek delicious fluff rememb- musical wise flows. Even win. the money went.

atf one hundred million dollars Captain sully twenty twenty five percent twenty five percent sarge roy Scott kelly jeff wilson erin brockovich ebayer voronin lic london seventy percent four hundred ninety nine dolla three hundred ninety nine doll fifteen percent australian foundation kiev asx
457. News: Can JPMorgan disrupt the UK challenger bank market?

FinTech Insider

59:47 min | 11 months ago

457. News: Can JPMorgan disrupt the UK challenger bank market?

"From eleven s this is fintech inside unease this week Lebron use rail fund in talks to buy Wildcard UK making it the biggest fast player in Europe. P. Morgan to possibly launching UK didn't challenge Vancouver? Twenty twenty one. And under lockdown, you can even banking payments says eight hundred percent while in. Japan. Credit card activity rose so much they're running out of card numbers to print. All this and much more on today show. Welcome to episode four, five, seven of Fintech insider I'm Sarah Ski and today I'm joined by my colleague and my co host Jason Bates how you doing Jason. Good, although sky is send me a yellow rain warning the East Midlands like yellow. Ray Is. Be. Worried. As somebody who is currently sitting under a thunderstorm I can confirm they're sitting there lots of rain, but I couldn't come and color and also with British. So we have to start by talking about the weather is required. So as is now normal we're joined remotely by some awesome guests making a welcome ten. We have thought Roy CEO NC Trulia, how are you today she folli. Grid. Sarah thank you so much for having me on. Thank you very much for coming back and making her fintech inside a debut from across the Atlantic. We have Rachel Green Research analyst for inside intelligence. How are you today Rachel I'm great. Thank you for having me. So right tonight used to work together. So this is the second time this has happened in in two weeks so I. Promise you. It's not a it's not a plan is to bring home ex-colleagues on the show just just how it's full. Right. Welcome, to the show and let's get started. So the first story today is that rails bank is to buy called UK. So walkout has been cooled sale of key assets including its UK entity called solutions by German administrators. Prior to the company's collapse. This summer WC s set had called payments for over seventy fintech in the UK including resolute pocket. So Anna money and curve. Rails Bank has confirmed that it's handed WCs purchase term sheets that have yet to be signed. But the acquisition is set to be finalized in November. If the deal does go through rows will be on track to become one of the biggest banking as a service providers in Europe. So initial thoughts on this one. It was really interesting actually because to the to the entities that you mentioned the money and resolute both customers of ours and so when it all happened, know the pandemonium was quite amazing the day before the off actually because they had to do with their customers. Anna money will fabulous actually particularly when working with them and they were trying to figure out what solution they had for the. EFFICACY UP WITH In in essence s capacity but I think more than anything, we've all been reading about this for a while the investigation started but the end collapsed seemed your the record I bet you've seen almost like over twenty four hours it was ninety village fine. At next thing you know the absconding justice in the evening, the country get onto private pleads and all this sort of stuff. So I think I don't think anybody expected how soon the collapse was. I've been really interesting piece of speech yesterday which said that at some point. Why? About taking over, don't your bank which you had is today. That's quite a quite a change for where the I want to be so initiative. I think the collapse rather horrific. This is the first put tech I would imagine that. We can say is really succumbed to the woods of Noble Legacy Bank change but I think some of the clients that we have customers. Put in some really cool and very quick rapid solutions so that the end uses not left bereft and the ad I. I was really shocked at how Hollywood included but I think it's just a cautionary tale for all of us. Really. It's fascinating. Isn't it? 'CAUSE WE? We've talked about a few times on this show before but with thirty sure Netflix series must be in the making, but they couldn't possibly have written the finale. Jason Please what are your thoughts? Go back five years maybe more. And why a called description was the recipe for launching some kind of accounting. UK. So if you were A, you're looking to create a challenge Bangkok to create a neo bangles something. In that ilk, you wanted to a beach head in a travel money hall who in a discretionary many council something like that why called were with probably at the top of that list so that just one of those infrastructure providers with type of in infrastructure provides you need to launch this kind of thing and they were they really ran without across Europe. So it probably makes sense for rails bang who trying to position themselves in that it banking said, they stay with us to have. A strap line of you know, make a bank account with five loins. Code and the fact that they've now galt w they they're tempting to buy WCBS. RAMS OUT BY THE CLIENT LIST A funnel and and builds anti capabilities I think in order for them to to to follow the admission. Yeah. It's really interesting rating move on rails cards part because some talking about perhaps what cards collapsed being a little bit more than expected. That's probably not true if you the F., D. journalists who broke in two thousand seventeen and as you banning head against a wall for the last two and a half years but the rails bank they've gone the other way we see new most I mean again, they've been doing a lot of work in the background, but they've they've had a very quick. Scaling. Lost loss few months, I. said. What do we think about the? Do you think that? It will have any impact. So obviously, Shiva you mentioned that people like Anna Money had to put some very clever things in place to sort of pick themselves up and continued trading result of this, and obviously that meant that a lot of them did leave why called a massive provider and go somewhere else Do you think Rosebank will be able to to win these clients back? You Get old? You think it would their reputation by. But by by a building back up again or do you think will struggle to attract customers because of the legacy of walkout systems? I think I think if I do I'm not very familiar with their product or them. But I think is any any player in the market who is coming into really salvage? An existing exit client book I think the proof of the pudding is in the product if real bank really develop a product and developed. Infrastructure that could entities curve money revenues? No, those companies require. then. They get to keep but I think they have to create in constantly prove as infrastructure player that they can actually keep up with what are the what the needs of the antibodies was on and off the that they have to support so. I think more than anything Sarah. It's the banks I. Think of the world will have to not not not can put back out say, but once they've got them, they need to them and I think maintaining that clientele and by that standard accidents or the products that the the bill so that they have the entities and they have the company's I co- antimony as clients will be. Tossed because the also do enormous distress, we've been not rid of playing around here. You know this company slashing and the pressure on everybody really to spoil them. To keep them enough to go somewhere else. Or any other player for that matter it's not a biscuit that rabbi because if you have other entities in in the market like wheels, Vancouver can provide that infrastructure service then well, why should I stay with you? For those, we don't know a rail bank is really a bank is a service provider prototype build scale. For for financial use cases whether it's issuing bans or debit cards or bank transfer will collecting money cards an money college conversing many as though actually with BCS being prepaid card issue, it just fits into that suite two services where if you order to come along long build revenue clone than you could go to rails bank and say great Vanina called and this that and the way you go. So when A. While Recently. A rotor patron bankers service last growing rails could exams. And just one final thing because Bank CEO Nigel. Vernon. Commented own the on perhaps the need for greater regulation around companies like walkout or new rules guidance for companies as you say, maybe won't use the banking as a service provider You know more protection place because as we said, the fallout from this was huge particularly in the UK but across Europe as well. Does anybody have any thoughts on whether new rules are appropriate whether we perhaps need them? I mean Jason I know you've worked in this space but but do we think that's coming? I think. There's something very interesting about the platform vacation of banking. You know it used to be that you had a monolithic provider with the license and the customer relationship, and now we've got a number of layers of players. You all rely on each other WHO's alternative aws foles down or if a prepaid card provider collapses the if there's some kind of rule. Era Assay KYC fun. It's ASTA. Get quite Iki when you stay while. Celebrities. Infrastructure firms deep in the stack of providing services for wide variety is. And Big Bank clients and so west fault. Liability and regulate to go kick is the post with a license. But then how does that a work you know and I think so so I, think the m the ecosystem of providers come together to deliver customer solutions a gun to need looking at from a risk perspective a slightly different way to to traditional monuments is that makes sense the regulation has got to keep up with the technology is moved as a ways. Regulators now need to keep up with the technology and the way things are being done, but I suppose that's that's always the way. she finally did you have any concluding thoughts on that one? Not, just to add on the Regulation Pau can work with what they have and so united. You've mentioned Sarah, this investigation started in two thousand seventeen. So one would have hoped that someone was following it at the C. as well. I think safeguarding the moment I intensity complex in you E. I kind of wonder what what else they add to it if they do have to add to it because as it is, I, mean we we go to that regulation as well but. Having extra safeguarding. On e-money sort of e-money type products wanted to Cetera. I think it would be inevitable but I kind of wonder what possibly could add now that the already have. Yes, it will be interesting to see if it's an additional something different perhaps a third type of licensing regime coming in but I think we'll have to wait and see and I think it's not just the is looking fairly show both in Germany which is a little red face right now maybe having some folks doing some thinking as well. Right I'm going to move onto our next story today, which is JP. Morgan. Is To challenge U K banks with a digital launch in early twenty twenty one. So chases targeting the launch of its online UK challenged as I said in Q. and twenty twenty, one The idea is apparently, but it will able to take advantage of increased use of digital services that we've seen throughout the pandemic among. Muslim. Global the project is expected to be Chad by Clive Adamson is a former executive at forementioned essay, the UK regulator. On J., P. Morgan up supplies including aws also aforementioned. Antennas Future Technologies provided with cloud and digital king infrastructure. J. P. Malkin's can see what banking business operates predominantly in the US moment and its expansion to the UK is likely to in full offering savings. Current accounts a typical consumer banking services basically when the new bank will. If the new bank is launched, it would mean the two biggest names on Wall Street now operate consumer banks in the UK. Of course, we have my favorite. Bike Kiro radio that Goldman, Sachs Marcus Rachel, and you Berkshire about this for for the business idea. So would you like to take the the first taken it sure is so as it now i. have pretty mixed feelings about this news not completely sold on it on if it does launch in Q. One, twenty, twenty, one, it's coming at a really weird time I think Chase wanted to launch this capital on like you said on the shift to digital that's been happening as a result of pandemic, and it's definitely a valid. Saw It on by they're going to be launching this against a really challenging backdrop of low interest rate environment with a ton of existing competition in the challenger Banque Space as you know, the UK is home to some of the. Most Mature Challenge Your Bank snowbanks starling zone Reveluti- which all have millions of users on their own, and then on top of that, we just saw chase shudder their US digital, only bank thin within a year of launching it. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how they improve their strategy when they go for this product and how they adapted to fit the market. Yeah it's going to be really interesting because I. I don't mean to brag about this yet again, but I predicted fins demise six months before it happened. So as somebody who you kind of mostly focused in the US and you're based in the US, will do you think was the reason behind fins demise maybe is more than one but what you think is the. Reason behind that. He has. So there's definitely a number of reasons I think the main one is that it didn't chase him differentiate thin enough from its flagship chase mobile banking at on it was meant to be geared towards millennials but do anything that was you know so different that people couldn't get within the avid self and I think ultimately didn't differentiate itself from neo banks in the US on namely with competitive interest rates, it didn't have a high yield savings account So I think for those few reasons just did not work out. Yeah, no I totally see a point about differentiation. It's something that that we talk about here in the UK as what we do still have new players coming to market of hair and and and differentiation is. Is is something that. Kind of struggled with I guess Jason Obviously, you probably have many thoughts on the UK digital banking market, what you think about another challenger and and this particular a particular bank launching a chance of brand here. This in his details as Rachel this. But it does seem it does seem an interesting territory to pick the U. K. given. The does have the most mature at digital challenge markets also plays already. Hey. Obviously Goldman, Sachs's too well with Mockus predominantly great interest rate that was that was industry beating, and that will this interesting question as to what kind of banks gun debate because if they aim for a Monday starting rather than style thing like they can have to spend a Lotta money unappetizing advertising to to push this through with, you could be bullying customers a navy that's politics the plan. Otherwise? You're going against Goldman, Sachs around interest in order to pull in deposits or uranium, and you probably don't be mortgages might. Be Lending very much. So it's one thing to say that the launching event but will is the business model of a lender of trying to get deposits of trying to to merge some quasi credit card what the angle and I think until we see proposition is is is quite difficult to evaluate how one's going to before. I agree I is interesting thing as well is that if they couldn't make work in the US world can bleed J.. P. Morgan is a bigger consumer facing brand and they're all they're all fewer challenges established challenges. Let's say about where not changing now. But if you think about the big names over there, there all fewer of them, how do they make this work in the UK? It's interesting lose. shofar did you have any thoughts on this from? Well I think the more the Mayor Really Marcus customer and I love buckets, and so I I love the the product I mean like I should also say that I was an excellent employee but that's also the reason why market I took product although the email from them to save my interest rate is lowering sows too thrilled about that one but I think I'm re tonight maybe it's the point that they have the book. Could they have the book to be able to offer this product also with all the banks vision rules octopus software deposit institutions of not the operating back in let's leverage. Maybe Europe is a much sort of interesting market for the magazine I see. That I think the European market is much more used to the Europe the digitize new bank model than the Americans may be, and so maybe that's another reason perhaps by thought about launching in Europe. Could Carpio before they tried it in the states and I think also that almost every Neha back and I must be I might be wrong this apiece correct me but I think almost every meal bank on the High Sierra we have which I think is upon but nonetheless. But it's the monster or the styling or the resolute. Away, they do have a deposit. Product. Or an interest-bearing deposit product. So having something like bacchus or whatever GP Malkin's Fox to be I think would be five of us and just see what what is difficult. To give us choice. So I'm all for it. I think stolen does deposits a very low interest rate on deposits and MOM's as far as I understand, it have an interest motion premium account is interest berry, but I think other than that. It's all to pay three account Gantry, which is correct calculation. which was a now about. Med gain really because you washed. So this is I think one of the unique things. JP Morgan, and Goldman have have the GRAVITAS. So as a consumer I, kind of like the choice. Yeah. No, it's more choices is better for everybody. I think Rachel about to the US market. What what she in could succeed in the US market so obviously at Chime has done has done pretty well. What do you? What do you think is the key to success and do you think that there's room for anybody else to really come in and challenge I'm talking about the Customers I know Alabama has quite a few as well. That's an old model. Is. There anybody at nist? What is the key to success and is there room for anybody else? Yes. Oh China's definitely the front runner among the US neo banks right now Barrow money just got approval the first US Bank to get approval for its own banking licence, but it has fewer users in accounts than chime. So I. Think that time success has a lot to do with its ability to speak to. It's on target audience, which I think was a downfall thin its inability to do so. I think trying to get younger consumers who don't necessarily want credit cards but are more interested in personal finance management tools money management on helped him build savings, things like that are really valuable in having that in a bank account and not just in a third party on to be able to track her spending and set goals in all of that basically centered around financial health having that in your bank account. I think is really attractive. Yeah. And I think you'll put about credit cards is really interesting because it picks up on what Jason said Elliot the one thing we do not house here in the UK and again correct me if I'm wrong. Anybody is a challenge of bank offering a good credit card product. Oh credit product full stop that number of them are doing lending the small businesses. We have quite a few lending products but but I would think that end. Sorry. Say. That there's reasonably could reason for that which is. For for few years into change fees like many the banks make from credit cards on each transaction has been limited to I. Think he's A unique cranky heavy some night twenty basis points Colorado for a for a credit. When the US. There is no the there isn't that. Limits and that for a lot of the big banks have made crazy amounts of many of credit cards and it's an extremely aggressive market where there are lots of rewards in the end, the the merchants kind of paying an consumers. Rating Weird Model, which is why the E U with. So so I think that to the credit cards in the US make sense where in the in the UK Europe, a Khaki Awning to change. Makes it less. Trent. Yes, that's true and I think again, Rachel units market, but the ninety but a lot of the the appeal of credit cards is the rewards right? The cash the points. Yeah exactly. It's so competitive. With all different banks coming out with pretty much different versions of the same same thing travel cards, points, rewards on. That's definitely the biggest I think draw to credit cards but I do think that there have been studies about millennials Gen Z. on consumers who are really dead averse and don't want to take on credit cards, and so I think it was back to. The interest in banks what? We've spoken about on this podcast a few time. Credit cards or bizarre product that actually in a wilder increasing transparency in the digital world actually lead to more apostasy about finances because you get the point way you spend on your credit card and then realized he forty days later the spent and suddenly you're paying interest on this revolving credit. So it's this. It's a conflicting model where actually it's not in the consumer's best interests or for federal portion consumes it's not to that. Those who can handle the credit and a lot of money and they get rewards for those the calm ended up in his arm debt. So I. I I never think the credit cards are a a great consumer product but that because of the way they the crayon importance. Yeah I would agree with that I think that I know chime going back to chime recently launched a credit building card that I believe is a debit card. I could be wrong but I think the point of it was for people with senator credit files that want to build up their credit history they don't have to do it by racking up. Their spending on credit cards, they could just use the debit card. Yup Absolutely, and that's a huge problem. In this country I, go to credit card is the minute I could because I was told by my my parents, you need good credit needed credit card to get a credit score Anita, credit school to be adult and obviously you know these these things have changed every time. Absolutely. I agree with you funny new ways to build people's credits of making them access to other financial products these hugely important. She you do you have A. quickly, adding duty, that's why over good because you can get credit schools in a different way to backing. At. That point I'm going to take us to a quick break, but we'll be back shortly in fact, talk a little bit more about open banking. Banking is a service is deconstructing the banking stack. It's enabling brands to embed finance more easily unto Taylor financial products, specific customer needs, but presenting new opportunities for specialized providers, office banks, extra revenue streams, You can download a report that we've written no bs view of what banking as a service is and what it means for the industry had to bit Dot Lee forward slash banking as a service. That's all lower case. So bit dot. Lee food slash banking. FINTECH inside of listeners, we need you if you listen to the show whether this is Your First Episode Four Hundred Fiftieth episode or you dip in an out with love it if you could take a few minutes to give us your feedback on suggestions to help shape the future of the show. We want to know what you liked what you don't like where we can improve a because we make this podcast for you our listeners and we won't to make it even better to help us out. Please take amendment to visit bit dot Li Slash Fintech inside a survey. It shouldn't take more than five minutes to complete, but it would mean so much to us but bit Dolly Forward Slash Fintech inside a survey. Much on on with the show. Under lockdown. Payments surged over eight hundred percent. So the number of transactions conducted using payment initiation API's in the UK. So a more than eight hundred percent increase during lockdown according to financial API provided Trulia Payment initiation of is a form of online payment enabled UNTO PSG to here in Europe and allows customers to make payments directly from that bank accounts. Payments from traditional bank accounts accounted eighty eight percents of that growth with challenge banks accounting for the remaining twelve percent. Truly, puts this trend down to an increasing border. With Pi beyond the more technically progressive near banks she fully I feel like you might be the person I should come to. Maybe Sarah Made By person. That's really exciting. Thanks thanks so much for letting US talk about this. It's really really exciting. I think let's see. We must say that you know Kobe is just so rubbish emmy obviously that's technical technically. How bad actually the tweeted his but I think we all went into the town in March. Today on intellect down in March and we started working from home and we looked as hot as we look ever I think. But also I think what changes how we buy things online how engaged with Commerce Online And how we consumate processes answer Analysis at in that, he saw this over eight hundred percent increase in payments. It's astonishing because I think it just shows such a huge trend towards really on things in a different way at consuming advice products and services in different weight. Secondly, I, think the idea of necessity being the mother we've mentioned right you can't go out to buy street is able to pay your bills said something and so what's the alternative we? which is doing it on the Internet. The most interesting thing about that of course is hopefully, Wifi works because that's yes, can help with but you just WanNa make sure that why fight who is really good and so you can produce an act. Of Is's so for us, one of the things is being We launched payment product last year, we wanted the first. Product, Class Year Which? She should product at. Your Way and also most accurate directed on this but assize very way. Banking traffic that is generated across the reels over half of it is true ms and read the ones who facilitated into facilitate that. So the trend of having. And that products Really taking off after Austin March is fantastic but it was I think it just shows a growing trend to Tau we as consumers want to engage in commerce on the Internet. Yes i. mean this is a two fold thing here isn't there there's the fact that more providers a now enabling payment initiation. Services those you a aware basically, you go to an APP any APP. For example, I'm going to say a sauce but face us does it but it's a big name you have across the world. Let's go with a Saas. When you look at the options of how you pay, you have called your credit card, you have debit card, you have to pay to all you have a this powered Boeing open banking and they have different brands But basically what that means is that you click on that option it takes your online banking provider if you're on the phone, you just looking with your fingerprint. Looking you would normally You can send that. You want the payments happen that way you just it should be it should be an audio about me up here a really smooth journey visit is possible to message. But it should be really smooth Jenny on the idea it or the benefit of the is they've had this method of payment longtime in Europe is it cuts out the called providers. That can be beneficial for the merchants who are paying lower blow fees and paying fees, merchants anymore and to the consumers perhaps because you're taking out the extra step. So as I said, the journey should be smoother but also there's less chance of maybe cotton ambitious parenthood block coal, fraudulent transactions of the back of it. So that's the idea of. and so we've got more people doing that offering it with also more consumers choosing to use it, which is great because one of the big problems people concerned about what this was whether consumers would trust method of payment. Now, Rachel I'm GonNa come to you and I know this isn't a common method of payment in the US. Do you. Think people in the US. Would go for this or do you think Mathu wedded to their credit cards? So if like J. P. Morgan started offering it oh, Goldman started offering it. Do you think people would go for? So meaning that when you're checking out online I could directly click on something that's affiliated chase, and that is how in pain yet the money goes straight from a chase account to a source that you don't need a credit card number that it saves a credit card number the money just you logan show online banking like how do you usually whether that the fingerprint will face whatever to confirm the transaction goes through. Yeah I think in the US people are. Used to cover payments before banking, and I think that from what I remember, just the trends in the US bat. Stubborn when it comes to adopting new payment methods perhaps in the UK that might be a really general statement on but I know that for example, with mobile wallets, it's not as common here and contactless payments. So I think got on. I don't know that people would be sold on it. As being different enough from just using their debit card on especially when there's the auto sale option I think that people would really need to be explained what it is really well to understand the difference and why it's a benefit us that. I. Think I think two Rachel's point I. think that it's it's a similar thing but you put brand on it and then people that used to the browns right? So I think it would be a case of. One of the things that we've talked but in this country was about consumer adoption, you know had cut covid not pitched up changed everybody's everybody's perspective on the world's life everything else let alone payments people might be a bit more skeptical. But one of the things that we had talked about was the fact that because the merchants is saving money paying both the feast the credit card. Providers maybe they could incentivize customers to use this method of payment with the percentage of that fee. So do you I don't know a lot about the Americans US obsessed with like getting cash back right? Like if you pay to use it, you might use it. You still unconvinced. No, I think anything with a discount anything like that tied to it i. think that's the way to go. Particularly does right so. She probably star did you come bucket on the? Just going to say I mean I think that's one of the ways that there's been consumer adoption conversion of using that open banking rail as a real about energy dramatic lear and a real of payment because. When you're saving your update change pasta spots on. The climate consumers update credit coffees that sixty when it comes to fraud at. If God forbid anything that goes wrong in the transaction, it's backed back liability. It's not the much the media stability and all of those checkpoints and Jackson balances have meant that the you can the European consumer opting this message of. And it's been really fantastic and I kind of love it because when I think about topping my account to some of the people who use this product is just so it's because it's done bay crickets instantaneous. Your settlement is deeply five minutes nautical three days. And that sort of consumer adoption has happened because the user experience mentioned this is really key at smooth and it's quick. And one of the things that this is something why perhaps in America might take a bit longer but we spent a lot of time educating the customer at educating the consumer knows a lot of that Saddam across the industry between the regulator between people like ask between applications and banks to say to the to the consumer this is really a alternative method of payment. It's your local payment and you should use it because it's safe foster. Add saves you time and then couple that with the incentivize ancient motions to say use this because it actually saves you money saves me the much money has been good. Budget has been really high. So I think that's another reason I've just seen this massive eight, hundred percent growth in usage because of all these things that if look quite seamless doing quite well last five, six months. Yeah. I mean Jason. Do. You want to have the last word on this? I guess the story made me want to know more because you know percentages hide all kinds of sins. If only hundred transactions were happening that eighty percent growth isn't that much are we and and I guess my intuition is still the compared to most Dakota. These or American Express banking is a tiny tiny fraction of the number payments they're actually having world. Get activities good to push as increasing adoption, but actually talking about eight percent growth of relatively small number, the grand scheme of things. So I'd love to hey, Hey, more about that and also secondly. I wanted snow like what with the primary use cases like where really we seeing the growth? Is this a retailer thing or was a particular provider? One of your coins that was actually really slamming it in growing quick and yeah I just left me wanting to know more about the numbers which I'm sure you call provide the Whereabouts it was really growing. Well Shefali. Go to find out information is the if you go more detailed data somewhere or is this perhaps part to the research, it's popular. The reason we are going to publish a much more holistic and a wider range of open banking results and use of our products I think during next court. If I'm not mistaken actually because what we wanted to do is edgy you're quite right. It's it's not just a short period of time it's. Also, just a shorter window of people potentially using it. So we wanted to make sure that they was robots to back this up and take more maybe a two year six monthly to a two quarter six monthly period of time to do trend analysis as opposed to receive the snapshot for March at an Johnny a question about the use cases, it was mainly other Fintech topping-up up account. So we have quite a few clients who. I am the food safety, your topping up your bank account, topping up your existing your bank account topping-up Eissa. Fund management account at it was very much of that space. We had one or two customers in the gaming and retail space using top a accounts for. And that sort of stuff. So it was mostly I would say sixty forty morphine texts than it was non-finn Tex using it, but I think to answer. Your question James Question at very much and Jason I mean very much saying what is another quarters visa they begin have which is much more robust and More detailed view of usage location banks at the. Time time rising. Right well, we we look forward to having you come comment on that one to goes life but I'm going to move on but stay with payments so I did not write this but this is what it says in for me. Layby goes fluting on the Australian Stock Exchange. the company will float around hundred and fifteen million pounds from the seventh of September on the Australian Stock Exchange a slightly delayed timeline, but original plans were set back by the pandemic. Since twenty seventeen Labor has accumulated one point, six million users with all those in the UK and the rest from new. Zealand Australia at the end of July layby secured an eighty million dollar debt facility from victory, Park capital, which it used to bolster its UK offering an in the same week Labor is Major Australian rival off to pay had shelled out fifty million euro to acquire. I'm going to save his own but I think Pegasus and PMT technology to help it. Across. Europe. So we have two things hit. We have the battle of the be NPL's heating across the globe. Really interesting to me is that two of the biggest players in the space all from down under in the the off season, the key we don't have that many big syntax when they do go baker big zero is another one. You Might WanNa look from from New Zealand. So a couple of interesting things that one in the market down there is obviously a successful. It's obviously conducive to grubbing this sort of business and be I suspect perhaps, not necessarily room for all these players to compete globally if you clone as Europe, quite well up united off to pay as Australia and new. Zealand. So up label, it's got a bit of business down there as well. Jason You WANNA. Go go first on this one. Yeah I guess there's two angles to this one is the you know the growth of the Boy Now pay later installment lending. which again has some society shoes around people. Getting over the head with a with things that seem a lot cheaper than they all just a few more dollars a few more pounds a week show I'll by that. So suddenly when you go twenty of these loans. Various. Things that you've you've board starts to add up. One of the things that I think we lack in financial says, is Israeli the ability for customers to see wolf ate committee to in one space. Everyone gets paid a salary How much is gone? You know the voice stop paying and I think you know the bay buy now pay later in stolen lending thing. Can Be problematic a as a way of avoiding credit to to consume. So I think this this'll be interesting grunk to that industry and I think there's something interesting about the. About a stall tip, essentially being listed on a stock exchange for relatively low amounts of money that you might expect a what a good series see maybe series date. To to fund I saw today as well. The New York Stock Exchange to allow direct listing there, and I do wonder if that is a move to from away from venture capital. INTO PRIVATE EQUITY LAW LARGEST OF STOCK EXCHANGE INSTITUTIONAL INVESTING that. means. We're. Going to see more people. especially in the current financial climate. A direct listings go for listings on the aim stock exchange rather than trying to get massive checks stay private for longer because that that's been the trend so far that actually companies go absolutely massive without being public taught things to to animals to story which interest me yeah not to appoint your second point So as anybody listen to regularly will know that I follow Australia very closely but an interesting quick the milk but is about companies do list much much smaller much earlier, and my understanding is there are two reasons for that. One is the VC money is harder to come by down there there was just less of it. And second of all the way, the stock market works in Australia and astound similarly in Canada is the coast, both of those nations out built a lot of the early money on shipping and or mining. You need a lot of money up front to start a mining company. So there was a tradition of companies going to stock exchange enlisting very, very early rather than what we might have had a in Europe, and perhaps the US where you raise load of money, I bill the business and then you list to go straight in stock exchange and the history of the market is just fascinating, but probably a bit too much detail but today. Rachel, you would nodding along that. So I think particularly in relations to buy now pay later trend I mean obviously you you've covered payments what are your thoughts on this trend? How was it taken off in the US? Who who was a big players the use it? Yes. So actually my last report that I wrote before transitioning to bank in coverage was about this face and it was just stacking up the different players. So I don't know I haven't really been tracking it for the last year but I will say just from shopping online and seeing what's going on here. It's definitely exploding in the US I've used it and I would say like the big players that I see on different retail websites commonly are asked pay and Clark. And I have used after pile though just to kind of see what it was about. I agree though about the risks associated with using these things I, mean I think. It could be a good alternative if it's on no interest or you know better alternative than a credit card, but I think ultimately if people are getting in the habit of using these dangers associated with spending money, you don't have. so I don't think to. Like regular payment messages. Yes. Interesting. Isn't it because in the in the UK Kloner particularly with responding to the as everybody knows over here is very consumer focused in very keen on protecting consumers, which is something but I think perhaps you'll missing in the US. When it comes to regulators A may had published a paper not using clone of specifically anything but talking about the potential damages associated with this payment mechanism and. Came back and said, remember exactly what percentage was but basically most customers never actually, Pani, interest because it's the it's the installment payment system what you agree up front. So long as you pay amount each month then you ought you don't you end up with? Interest Cookie Agreed to an agreement or contract rather but I guess to Jason's point. The problem is if you just by this just by this and just by this and just by this new agreed to it all woman stolen, and then you know by the end of the month, suddenly two thousand pounds of two thousand dollars out of your account That's a bit different. Yeah. I, think it's good for one large purchase if you need to do it on, you're buying a piece of furniture or something like that but I think regularly to get kind of dangerous. Giovanni I was just going to say I never used one of these. Facilities at what I've never I I love the club ads and everything. Because I was kind of wondering to precisely the point you beat Ed sometimes in the school. Kathy when you're buying products and services because they've typically are on ECOMMERCE websites where they offer this functionality and It's so easy to just go pick caffeine can go out bought ten dresses actually now. Oh Gosh I've got now eight hundred million dollars was you know payment that I have to make to this entity so I always tend to wear it because I think it's I think it's it's credit and interest in disguise. And I also wonder about the consumer angle and the consumer right tangle of help educate people about this because it's so lobby to say goodbye lobby in address right now favorite Legion when does that happen and then I'm going to get a bill in the mail which says P. This money in hopes I forgot about it until I always kind of wiry and I passed myself is somewhat of sappy a savvy financial person but I always worry about these things because I always think there's some sort of at the end where. As a consumer, the miss something and I'm going to quote on away and that's just going to bed ripple. Too, how much IPO I at the end of the month of the quarter whatever and on the planet they beat said they are a super interesting and Super Fabulous Company. But I read today I think that the head coach of the sixty fifty million loss disclosure. So you kind of look at the validity of this business model rather than say hottest one. Go and drive to profit and revenue when you have this sort of model. Yeah, it's going to be interesting one to watch for all those reasons I think to rate US point models traditionally used to buy a fridge shore call buying eight dresses on socio probably, not originally intended full. Or I am going to move we're going we're going to get back challenger. Banks GonNa mix things up a bit. This is that ZAPPA has taken its first steps in digital banking with the launch of its fix tim savings accounts. So the new accounts have rates of up to one point, three percent their fix accounts between one and five years There is a minimum deposit of a thousand pounds. saves commodity that balance and interest in Zyppah out once the money is deposited. Savings account is the first product available from safest new bank with part of a longterm strategy to pivot away from its depending origins to providing a wide range of financial services. it does have its own banking licence it took a while to get, but it does have one. Now Zyppah will be lending through its unbalanced sheet at using savings deposits license enables it to do. The idea. Being. That, it will ultimately deliver more revenue for the film which which does make sense all in all as a general theory. Initial thoughts on this one. So it's another new bank. We've kind of already covered this little mix another new bike coming to market with a high innovative. KOMO's interest rate are remember the days when they were six percent. A high interest rate. would be Zyppah Sean says Jason Straight in there. I. Don't think. Is there a new challenge bank I think that converting their business model? Essentially they've always been lending They just been a page of halen mean surgery lending. Underpaid to pay lending worked when the spread between interest rates, you get your deposits and the interest rates people being charged with. So big that actually you could directly connect deposited lenders. Andrew. Do you really wet. Expensive have changed over time. As far as on the way you that's Like all over the pitch inland struggled If collapsed, a are in trouble. So it becomes interesting question like what is good at relief thank good at assessing lending and they needed a deposit as only need money in order a letdowns. Hey like these, the banking business model like maturity transformation you give me some deposits I'll give you entrust you want to borrow. It to you for a longer period of time like that's that's banking. So, So I think they've. They smalley seen the direction of travel going for lendings got into having said, we'll look visit established model. They've got their banking licence. So now they can actually get into the savings and let him very traditional space in the digital world with a with systems and people that have been in this for a while and I think he's small. Yeah no I completely agree when they first announced gang for licensed that was my first thought was well, if you're going to be lending money to lend your own money in cut out the middle person as it were particularly at the moment interesting you know I imagine I haven't seen any data yet, but I do imagine that consumer loan defaults are likely to increase A. Given that we have a recession here in the UK I think this one in the US but no. Been announced yet Rachel I have not been keeping a close eye on the US economic situation anyway, consumers around the world not doing great light to see increase in defaults COPA to divest its model it does make a Lotta Sense Shahada you wanted to on that yet. Thank you very quickly Suzuka want about customers and they use data and and payments products. To. Enter Antidote evaluating loan applicants and so. The savings and loan model is so traditional but as I said at the beginning of this podcast. Using the. Infrastructure, you can get this to kind of assess credit worthiness of an individual That's one of the cases Zara actually, but I think it's really smart move because why what you don't have and so now to try and pivot and have a really good healthy balance sheet but also think about an individual financial model. So you'll business is really good one and backing perhaps not the traditional Steph the big to into but if They've been addenda that just to add to that and say, well, now that you've particularly deposit let's do that in an annuity books seems a smart move and I mean, it's huge them. They've taken such a long time to get here. It's not without its trials in angst. So I think good on them. Let's see. Let's see what they could also having them in the market as another alternative option is really nice thing. Is I. Think Jason Wants said getting the banking licenses the easy bit. It's keeping the Hawk zone license. Sarah. Getting. Is Easy maintaining it is. Odd. Right I'm going to leave his alone as by getting to the end of the show. We're now going to round up some of the other stories from the week, but we didn't have time to cover. There is so much happening this week as always we can't cover it all but these stories deserves a shoutout Jason do you WanNa go first. Show but I guess I'm building on the earlier dissertation about using open banking data to to look at credit scoring India's. A bank using satellite imaging to assess the creditworthiness fall applying for loans and the data that they use to measure various related to the land irrigation crop patents in combination demographic and financial markets to make lending decisions. The bank has halted with aggravated companies specializing in harnessing space technology and weather information for commercial usage. Additionally, ICICI GO getting the hang now as on further, the scoring model is to create indices at a district level village level, as well as an individual land boyd an estimated the cost of future agricultural income suppressing. I think a fascinating as well. It's it's. It's a pretty interesting one to keep an eye on especially model Again, cooling by Hawking back to some some stories you've already mentioned in the show. This one is about the PRA challenging business models of new banks, a consultation paper So the Prudential Regulation Authority, which is another UK regulator it set out its proposed approach, the supervision of both new and growing non systematic UK banks. The paper noted out of the twenty two UK banks will thrive since two thousand, thirteen, a number of new entrance underestimated what is required in order to become a successful established by. The PRI of did. Such as challenger banks or NEO BANKS AND CHOSE TO USE TIM new banks in order to describe the films currently in the mobilization stage, which means authorization with restrictions. Goodness me. And those films, but I've received authorization without restrictions within the past twelve months. The paper proposes a new supervisory statement is intended to sit alongside the PRA's requirements and expectations So I don't think this is unexpected I. think that they have ducks in a row for what we do to get new banks market. Now, we've got new banks at the market we have to keep on doing do think a lot of the British media Took it and ran with it and put setting banks associated set near banks names with which was perhaps a little unfair i. think the period just wants to make short ready for the next stage of bank growth. That's my perspective a next door at some bank bids to raise fresh funds through share style. So at some bank is planning on a one hundred and fifty million pounds chefs to save through the pandemic with an awesome considering in twenty, twenty two since its launch in twenty sixteen after his taken one billion pounds in customer deposits and lent to focus. The magic banking, the company is facing downward pressure on margins as competition heats up in the mortgage business. So the covid nineteen outbreak is also highlighting the fragility of the new breed of digitally lenders as potential investors expectations, valuations in challenging business environment. Cool. So I'll, and finally story is that Japan is running out of credit card numbers. So apparently, the problem here is that there's been a huge uptake online shopping amid the pandemic The country's credit card companies are struggling to come up with a regional sixteen digit numbers as consumers increasingly shopping online. The rise in credit card uses also been linked to a government campaign to encourage cashless payments at the prime minister. Shinzo Abe. That wrong. Apologize won't double the ratio of cash payments to forty percent by thousand, twenty five and eventually to eighty percent. CREDIT CARD COMPANIES HAVE WON'T BOOST IN CARD ISSUANCE will result in a shortage of combinations from the seven digit onwards. So just to explain this on on a credit, the first six digits denote the country Brandon of information on the remaining Ted including the account number anti account of decided by the credit card issue. So apparently, the most obvious solution to this donahue, it's obvious to me is to add an extra digit credit card numbers, but the reform which would involve advanced trials to prevent forgery could lead industry with a bill running into billions of yen that is reluctant to pass onto Cosima. Source, of amusing because I don't think I've ever heard of anything like this before but I didn't know as anybody else come across this before. Actually. One of the big problems in addresses Zoli. Because actually when you think about the the way that computers in service around the world redressed. With a group of digits. We guessing more more things connected online the narrow digits. So if years ago, we went from this version for on the Internet sort of. The people who specify how addressing works fulltime devotion six, which adds more digits. What interesting here is the that I don't think it is obvious thing to add another digit because that's crazy difficult. Do you think of all of the machines and all of the infrastructure over things actually policies around? If you've got what sixty how many digits sixty candidates to play with us. Ten billion different chords out there. So really what we really need is is reuse. You actually need to track all of the numbers you given out, and then just give out you know the same number again but with a different CV code because this, this credit card is lost used seven years ago, and so we need to do the next thing with virtual cards coming through there's definitely some Indonesia sort of staff of being able to do that kind of thing but the fact you in the entire life cycle issued. You'll at some point of issue. In cards or numbers doesn't mean that that number that A. Nation today. So I don't know I think adding a certainty digit scenes. Like a little extreme side. So rather confuse me thought if Japan's running out of God what is the US doing? It. Makes me think of Apple Card the card itself has doesn't have a number on it. Because it's meant to be used, they want you to use it in apple pay. Wherever, there's obviously they generate a virtual card number but. Yeah, I. Don't know if there's something to that but there's no card number on the actual apple card it's just the chip and that's it. Yeah it's it's. It's it's a strange one. I didn't know she finally did you have any thoughts on this I? Mean I think you probably agree it's a bit of a strange one of a mets red complex very by brain cannot compute all of these does and why it has. I think the whole idea the credit causing it's just so designed and I think when you think about a visa Masakadza easy mix. When I used to gets five is really cool thing way she typed in the first four novels of the credit card it automatic top topping stripe console a whether it was a visa or mix or mastercard issued caught at. It was cute I. Remember. Helping the. EDGE OF AGING IS BILL that feature out but I didn't I think credit cards cited I try US five as much as I can because I'm always afraid of dance. Yeah there is I think there is nobody will raise by parents who were like you must avoid at any and all circumstances and we've got a lifelong fair if it. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting one I. I'm kind of with you. Jason on the extra digit doesn't sound like it's a good idea and that's because I'm old enough to remember when in the UK they added an extra digit landline phone numbers and the chaos that cool. If you can't handle phone numbers, how are you compulsively handle credit cards? Okay on that note that wraps up the show. Thank you so much. All of our guests at welcome people find out more about you should folly. For me onto actually Roy at the tuna it's a website at also actually on unfitness. Perfect read you. On twitter are h green, one, zero, nine You look me up on linked in just Rachel Green, it's kind of a common name and you could search name business insider dot com. PEFECT and Jason. Euell building new banks positions around the world. That's what does. So you can find me at eleven historical or on twitter at Jason Bates. Pefect and asked me you can find me on twitter at sack, Chan Ski and thank you so much for listening. If you like if head do subscribe poke us and don't forget to leave bizzare of you, it helps to make it better and it helps others to find the shape speaking of making better. We'd love for you to give us your thoughts a super quick survey just visit bit dot com forward slash intact inside survey. As always. If you will join the conversation fund is social media just sexual and S S fintech insider off email polka. DOT, com. Thank you so much for listening goodbye.

UK US Jason Europe Marcus Rachel Sarah Ski J. P. Morgan Rails Bank Anna Money Twenty twenty Goldman Atlantic Vancouver Noble Legacy Bank East Midlands J. P. Malkin Rachel Green Research Roy CEO NC Trulia
January 21, 2021

Cyber Security Headlines

06:53 min | 6 months ago

January 21, 2021

"From the sea so series it cybersecurity headlines. It's thursday january twenty first twenty twenty one malware bytes briefed by the group. That attacks solar wins. The company is the fourth prominent security firm to announce being targeted by the group after microsoft fire and crowd strike. The firm wasn't a victim of the supply chain attack as it doesn't use solar solutions but rather found the attackers access internal systems by explaining dormant email protection product within its office. Three sixty five tenant. Melwert bites notified by microsoft about suspicious activity on dormant office three sixty five security app on december fifteenth. After an investigation the company found the group only gained access to a limited subset of internal company e mails with no evidence that any products or production systems were compromised. Google researcher find security. Flaws impacting popular chat apps. Google project zero researcher natalie. Silvana vich recently published a report about a common theme of vulnerabilities and messaging. Apps centered around the calling state machine mechanism used by absolute signal. Google duo facebook messenger. Gio chat and mocha. She found these vulnerabilities commonly allow attackers to force transmission of video or audio from another client and an underappreciated attack surface. These apps all communicate using web rtc utilizing the session description protocol for signaling while the bugs covered in her report. We're already patched silvana. Vich found they were a result of developer airs in understanding how web. Rtc applications require user consent mechanisms to prevent these state machine implementation. Air's executive order addresses militias use of public clouds. One of the last executive orders from the outgoing trump administration gives the commerce department authority to write rules that could bar foreign entities from using s. cloud infrastructure as a service offerings. If they're used for a cyber attack the rules would apply to jurisdictions as well as people and companies. The order gives the commerce department six months to create rules for. Us cloud providers that would require verifying identification of foreign customers and keeping records. No word on if this order will be kept in place by the new biden administration. Chrome will start looking for weak passwords. The feature will start rolling out to chrome users in the stable channel in the coming weeks after being tested as an optional feature in chrome canary builds since december. The browser will look at passwords stored. And they built in password manager allowing users to generate a strong random password an instantly swap it out users can run a check on all save passwords and settings chrome already warns users of passwords tied data breaches proactively offering to reset these. Google stadia from all the estimated that one point five percent of all loggins have been compromised by data breaches are sponsor for today's show is arms visibility to assets is more than just knowing the what but also knowing the so bad about all their assets to fully understand your current risks and exposure and put policies and procedures into place to manage those risks. You need to have complete visibility into every asset find out what arms asset management can do to help you see more assets and manage those risks at arm's dot com brave browser offers the first native s integration ip ipf s or. Interplanetary file system is a decentralized version of https while https let's browsers access files on a central server in order to get their web pages ipf. Let's the browser access content and a network of distributed notes. Ipf s points to a content. Id or c i d rather than an ip address when you type in an address ip uses a cryptographic hash to find the nodes that are storing the content for each file. This means the server is not under anyone companies control but you can still type in a web address like you normally would. This makes the content faster because begins stored closer to an end point. It's also more resilient to failures like de dos or censorship brave now resolves you arise that start with pf s instead of https and brave users can choose to let their browser act as a node on the network helping improve overall performance report finds api abuse is a leading cyberthreat. The finding comes from red ware state of web application security report which found that organization's already struggling to maintain consistent application security across multiple platforms have seen challenges explode with the mass adoption of remote work across twenty twenty in surveys. The report found that forty percent of organizations had more than half of applications expose over the internet through. Api's with monthly. Denial serves the tax injection attacks and element manipulation hitting fifty five forty nine and forty two percent of respondents respectively bought based denial of service attacks. Were a major part of this with eighty six percent of respondents saying they experienced at least one thirty three percents seeing weekly attempts and five percent seeing daily ones despite that only twenty four percent of respondents had solutions to distinguish bhatt versus human. Api access hacker league's seventy seven million nitro pdf user records. Information from the league included email addresses. Full names be crypt hashed passwords titles company names. Ip addresses and system related information nitro initially disclosed a low impact security incident to the australian stock exchange on october twenty first twenty twenty but later that month bleeping computer found that seventy plus million record database for auction online now. The threat actors shiny hunters has published the full database on a hacker form for free. The leaked information could be used as fodder for phishing attacks or as part of a credential stuff in campaign the security challenges of fitness tech in the white house. A new presidential administration usually brings some security concerns about what consumer grade tech the incoming administration wants to keep using obama. had his blackberry. Trump had an iphone. The question is if president biden can keep using his peleton. A connected fitness bike according to former deputy. Nsa director richard legend. The bike could be a manageable risk but would require disabling cameras on the bike as well as a nondescript and frequently changing username by the president probably keeping sensitive conversations. Away from. The bike is a good idea to thanks as always for listening to cybersecurity headlines if you want expert conversations around the same kind of security stories we cover on this show to be subscribed to defense in depth this week. The episode is all about building a security team. If you were so in charge of building cyber team from scratch what would be your strategy. Don't have an answer head on over to see series dot com to check out defense in depth or subscribing your podcast at choice. I'm rich travel lino reporting for the sea so serious cybersecurity. Headlines are available every weekday head to see so series dot com for the full stories behind the headlines.

Google Silvana vich Vich commerce department authority biden administration microsoft silvana Rtc commerce department natalie facebook president biden Us
Why the Markets Tanked on Monday

The Journal.

16:44 min | 1 year ago

Why the Markets Tanked on Monday

"In Saudi Arabia Sunday is the start of the work week which also means the country's stock market is open and this Sunday started off badly so the first thing that happens is Sunday afternoon the first market really to open was in. Riyadh reopens in Aramco. Crashes Stock for ARAMCO THE STATE OIL COMPANY IN SAUDI ARABIA CRATERED. And while that might seem like just one company in one place it was the first domino to fall in what would become a massive market collapse around the world a collapse the investing editor. Jeff Rogo sign next in New Zealand. Is that because the first Monday in the world is in New Zealand. Yeah there's your market comes on it starts. Crashing oil is starting trading at that time oil's crashing thirty percent and so you have oil you've dow futures and you have the first market opening at roughly the same time on Sunday afternoon our time a couple of hours later. Australia's starts crashing the Australian Stock Exchange recording. Its worst day since the global financial crisis. Hong Kong three hours later starts crashing download and focus and world markets tumbling here. Asian markets closed sharply lower and. Eventually we all go to sleep Sunday night a little nervous little scared of a pretty sure. We're going to see a pretty ugly Monday when we wake up and it was about as expected by the end of the day on Monday the Dow Jones Stock Index had dropped more than seven percent. It's the worst one day performance since two thousand eight since peaking in February the Dow Jones is down almost twenty percent. Can you put this stock collapse into context? Just how big is this fall? Yeah I've been covering the market for sixteen years this. We're going back to the days that have lived infamy right now. We're going back to black Friday. We're going back to black Monday. This was a terrible day in the stock market today on the show what drove one of the worst days in stock market history and what the US government might do about it. Welcome to the Journal. Our show about money business and power. I'm Kate Lima and I'm Ryan Canadian. It's Tuesday march tenth by the time trading opened in the US on Monday markets fell so far and so fast that it triggered something called a circuit breaker. They're meant to sort of calm during moments of panic. So if we hit certain either up times or downtime. Certain games or declines if we reach a level that's predisposed by the exchange operators we just shutdown shutdown is intriguing stops for fifteen minutes just like a circuit breaker and a house. If there's a surge of electricity circuit breaker shots and all the power goes off. Yes but for markets to hit a circuit. Breaker selling needs to be pretty extraordinary. We didn't have a circuit breaker during the financial crisis. And even the two thousand eight. We did not have a eight percent down day on two thousand eight. We didn't hit a circuit breaker on. May Six two thousand and ten when there was a flash crash. It's been since ninety seven since we the circuit breaker. This is a very fast. Turn and in these types environment the parts of the ecosystem that are sort of rattling break and parts of the economy have been rattled by one thing in particular. The Corona virus fear about the spread of Corona virus has worried investors. Their job is to look ahead at whether companies will make or lose money which means they're always on the lookout for economic shocks and Corona virus has proved to be a big shock especially to the travel industry. So if you're an airline like if people aren't flying on planes I had a friend who flew from Atlanta New York last weekend usually it's oversubscribed. He said they were twenty percent seats. Were full in eighty percent remedy. Airlines are facing that across the country and on international travel. You've hotels or a big industry in this country. And there's a lot of towns and municipalities that survive on tourism. The drop in demand for flights has gotten so bad that this morning four major airlines said there would be taking action. The CEO of Southwest Airlines said. He'd take a ten percent pay-cut while United's CEO said he forgo his base pay entirely and Delta United and American have all canceled flights united and Delta. You've even offered employees unpaid leave but while it may be obvious that travel is affected other industries have been hit too like oil over the last fifteen years. Us oil production is spiked. Thanks to fracking. The US is now the largest oil producer in the world but when there's less demand for oil like when everyone stops traveling oil prices fall in oil companies. Can't make as much money facing that situation this weekend. To giant oil producers Russia and Saudi Arabia disagreed over how to respond and that disagreement boiled over to the point where Saudi Arabia decided to go on a price. Cutting streak driving the price of oil lower and lower just like Walmart data across the country for two decades lower prices than competitors that survive on high prices. Go Out of business. Saudi Arabia's oil is like the Coca Cola will mark oil that they provide is the best in class number one product in and they decide to cut the price of that. And when you do that that has this. Massive implication across the world with Krona virus. Being sort of the first Straw. That was the rest of the. Hey barrel this is what set off the latest market crash on Sunday. His oil prices fell oil. Stocks around the world fell to because with an oil price war it becomes almost impossible for oil to make money and that could have a real impact on the US economy if US oil producers and energy producers can't survive. That's a huge amount of jobs. That's a huge amount of the economy. It's an entire S. and P. Five hundred or one of the largest sectors that gets squeezed so investors in stock market weren't just reacting to the to the price of oil falling. They were more concerned about the idea. That you as oil companies might go bankrupt the estate reacting to the solvency of the. Us Energy Industry. Wow the US. Energy Industry can't survive at twenty and thirty dollars oil at forty fifty. They do okay at Sixty. They make a fair bit of money at twenty and thirty. They don't exist. Oil is a reflection the economy and a lot of things are tied to it. You have that crashing and it will have a massive impact on a bunch of industries that employ a lot of Americans. Monday's crash really came down to two things. The fear of the economic damage the Kroto viruses beginning to pause and a price war in the oil industry combined. Those two factors added up to a seven percent drop in the stock market on Monday. A very bad day reminded jeff of the feeling he had another terrible day in the stock market. One of the worst days of the financial crisis. You on the Monday of that crisis. The Monday after Leeann goes under and a bunch of firms go under the question was can America. Survive is capitalism dead. This is not that the financial industry behind the market is doing okay. So this in some sense feels more like you know in the dot com bubble burst in an industry went under because of that. And I think that's what we're seeing right now. Okay so this crash is not two thousand. But what about it feels similar the uncertainty? I think these need the same level of people trying to predict what they can't predict. We have no idea how long the corn scarce GonNa last in two thousand and eight and early two thousand nine. The government opened its checkbook to stabilize the markets and the economy bailing out banks in the auto industry in passing major stimulus spending. Yeah I mean look the government. Basically through every dollar they could at the system and they had a coordinated effort with central banks to make this happen so the feds cutting rates. The Fed is finding every place it can throw money decrease ability in the market at the same time. The government is bailing out financial firms in throwing money at the of the world to get them stable. And so you have this coordinated effort from the government and the Central Bank to stabilize. Those efforts did seem to work. In two thousand eight the markets eventually stop crashing in. The economy began to recover and now more than a decade later in another moment of economic worry. People are beginning to ask. What could the government do now? Not just to fight corona virus but also to stabilize the economy coming up our first glimpse of the trump administration's economic response to the Corona Virus In the eighties people were convinced that kids were being abused by Satanic Cults Hiding in plain sight daycare workers parents and neighbors were sent to prison for unspeakable crimes. They were not only convicted of something that they did not do but they were convicted for something that did not happen from Gimblett conviction. American panic is out now. Follow and listen for free on spotify. Welcome back yesterday. President trump met with his advisors to discuss the government's response to the corona virus outbreak. Not just as a health threat but as an economic threat for the White House. This was a change over several weeks of market turmoil. It mostly hung back within the White House. There is a feeling of okay. You know. We're monitoring list but it's very much a health challenge. It's not an economic challenge and it's not clear that there needs to be a fiscal response. Davidson covers economic policy from Washington DC. And she says that after yesterday's stock plunge that feeling changed the president's aides were planning to present him with some economic policy response options. We were told that that might happen later this week and then by Monday morning it was. No we're going to do this meeting as soon as the president gets back from our Lago this afternoon. Thank you very much. We just attended a very important task force meeting on the virus after that meeting. President trump shared some of those policy ideas for the first time. The biggest was a possible cut to payroll taxes. The payroll tax is a tax on workers earnings that goes towards social security and Medicare costs. We don't know the details but the trump administration has said they're considering some kind of cut to those taxes that could last for a month it could last year. The idea is lowering the payroll tax will give workers paychecks a boost. It will more money their pockets so they can go out and they can spend it and that will help businesses and that will hopefully have an effect on overall economic growth. Should it falter amid the spreading virus? We don't know the contours yet exactly. But it could be up to eighty billion dollars a month a month. Wow yeah that would be. You know going to economy. So it's huge that eighty billion number. That's an upper limit and a payroll tax cut would require congressional approval but cutting payroll taxes wasn't the only idea trump floated. He also mentioned help for hourly workers which could come in the form of paid sick leave. I mean how would that actually work? Would it be that they were going to require companies to pay their workers paid sick leave or would it be that the government would be the one to supply money to workers who aren't getting paid by their companies? Yeah that's a really good question. We were calling around asking people. What are some of the options that they could do The way that economists framed it to me was well. You know setting up a fund for employers who could sort of tap this so that they could keep paying their workers. I don't know if that's what they're envisioning or if they're envisioning some to pay workers directly. I'm not totally sure. Trump also mentioned working with specific industries to help weather the turmoil industries like airlines cruises in hotels and the US made some moves today to try and boost oil prices to help US oil companies on the scale of no government intervention to say two thousand eight style bailouts. Where do you think that these proposals fall? Think you know somewhere in the middle. It's not nothing and we. Of course I can't say this. We haven't seen the details. A payroll tax cut could be very very large but more not seeing the kind of rescue packages that we saw for banks or the auto industry in two thousand and eight definitely not there yet. If economic threat gets worse from the Krona virus outbreak in more businesses start to close or workers get laid off. Is there more that the government can do? And if so what would more look like? Yeah there's definitely more that they can do. They could send checks to people direct stimulus checks. That's something that they're doing right now. I believe in Hong Kong setting checks to people for about twelve hundred dollars something like that is really unpalatable for White House officials. They just don't see it as being that helpful. If people are staying home an extra five hundred thousand dollars is not gonNa make them go on vacation if they're worried about flying because they don't want to get sick. There's been a lot of talk about whether the government has been prepared to handle the virus from a public health perspective. But how how prepared you think we fight this from an economic perspective on the one hand in the economy is very resilient in the. Us economy is doing better in a much better position coming into this and a lot of other countries around the world. On the other hand there is high and rising government debt following Tax cuts in two thousand seventeen and big government spending and spending during during an emergency. I mean generally folks argue that the government should spend to do it needs to do to respond to a crisis respond to an emergency but we know from research that what often happens. Is that politicians they to not go as big and be a big boulders is perhaps they should be if debt to GDP is already very high. Politicians could get nervous. They might not want to take big fiscal action. Have a big response from the government spending package or big tax cut because they're they're nervous about debt levels getting higher and I think that there are people right now are arguing. Look that's really not a factor. It is so cheap to borrow money right now for the government. Nothing should hold us back on Wall Street. The moves made by the trump administration on Tuesdays. Seem to encourage some investors. The markets swung up and down wildly throughout the day. But it ended the day up by almost five percent but in the midst of a downturn. When it's all happening it can be hard to know. What level of intervention is required? And what's working whether you're doing too much or not enough. Our COLLEAGUE JEFF. Rogo saw that in two thousand and eight. We are right now. Knee deep in this problem. And if things go the way they've gone. Historically we will reach an equilibrium things will stabilize. The economy will recover and wound better shape. It's tough to see that when you're in the middle of the storm and right now. We are very much in the middle of the score. That's all today. Tuesday march tenth. The Journal is a CO production of Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. If you like the show follows on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts route every weekday afternoon. Thanks for listening see tomorrow.

US Saudi Arabia Jeff Rogo White House trump Hong Kong president spotify New Zealand Riyadh
The M Conference

Manager Tools

27:57 min | 2 years ago

The M Conference

"Welcome to manager tools the conference. This cast answers these questions. What is the in conference how cost where is it? What are you gonNA learn all the details about the conference here again <music> mark good good morning good morning as great to create touch again and talk about <hes> this? This cast is a little bit different because I don't know that we've ever done this before or and it won't be long when folks <hes> but today we're GonNa talk about the conference in what it is and why we're doing it and why you might WanNa tend what's different about it and probably talk about some things about you know what it's like to be a manager attorney executive and what it's like to learn and why we're doing them conference because it is new to us and we're doing it for some very specific reasons. You said we've never done this before. I think we have had one time before we did a cast asked on roadmap a couple of years ago so I think if twice in fifteen years or fourteen years after years and years and years of no ads of any type and then if you remember few years ago we did an abortive attempt with outside aside ads which we made some money on but hated and so stopped it <hes> and now we have our own ads and some of you who've been listening recently. We're recording this in July twenty nineteen getting ready for the Conference Conference in Dallas October ninth and tenth <hes> Some of you've been listening lately you've noticed we've had some some ads for the conference and <hes> typically what we do a company. What Mike and I try to do is be reliable? You know when you come to manager tools when you come to career tools. You'RE GONNA get action advice. It's not skewed. We're not selling a product particularly. If you end up become a licensee we'd like that <hes> it helps us spread the manager message judge worldwide and despite hundreds of thousands millions of listeners a month <hes> we have less than ten thousand licensees so we also have public conferences were teach effective effective management effective communication effective hiring and then we have some other products as well and em- conference is so different I talked to Mike and I said I think we have to we can't just do ads. I don't think people people will get it and so we apologize. If you're expecting actionable guidances week we'll try to keep it short and simple and we want to explain what the conference is. I I will say one thing. I got an email email from a manager the other day. I'm Mike you're GonNa hate me for telling this story. I got an email a couple of weeks ago when we now see them conference and he says Mark I am a manager five Iraq's at a company with twenty five people well. I've been looking for an opportunity to come to one of your conferences and I actually can come to Dallas. I think he was around Dallas October ninth and tenth but I'm wondering whether or not I should come to the conference and I told them now. I said the the reason why he's never been ineffective manager conference he'd listen to podcasts. He started rolling out one on ones. I said No. I think it's smarter for you to go to effective manager and then after that consider going to effective communicator so the the distinction of conference is that <hes> there will be actionable guidance but really it's about the future of management and what we mean by the future is not the jetsons not science science fiction but what is in your future as a manager for managers who see themselves developing themselves and look if you're not gonNA develop yourself. You don't listen to a podcast about management hack. I would argue there are a lot of people who wanted to themselves won't listen to podcasts management because who would want to tell their friends listened to a podcast about intimate but if you WANNA press professionally the folks most likely to have a sense of your future our executives chiefs so the idea of the future of management for the working title of of the conference is the conference is about your future in management not just the future abandonment generally and typically what that means is. You're going to become an executive companies continue to get smaller and we often say that being an executive is not just how close to the top top but also how far away from the bottom but the real definition on executive is someone who has responsibilities outside the organization and what that means is if you spent the last five or ten years in your manager. Maybe your senior manager. Maybe you'RE A director sector. There is an enormous dichotomy between the things that will get you have gotten you where you are to getting you to the next level. There's a great book about the executive transition called what got you hear won't get you there air and it basically tells twenty stories of the classic mistakes that mid level managers make and they wonder. Why can I not get to the next level? The idea of IM- conference is to help you get to the next level and simplest that and frankly in addition the format is drawn from that mission. Look the manager tools mission our mission as a company is every manager effective and every professional productive reductive what we mean by every manager in the world. We want to eliminate bad management's. I remember Mike saying once when we were to client years and years and years ago at the end of the day if every manager were as good as they could be and that is not a terribly difficult difficult proposition we don't need everybody be Einstein's Newton's and Beethoven's box and so on if every manager were effective to their potential there wouldn't be any famine. There wouldn't be any hunger. The potentialities reality for the human race is so enormous and yet while organizations are fantastic at at expanding the impact of human beings. The organization also puts a tax on us that limits that upper ability the the ability to truly harness all of the human potential organizations. It's one of the fundamental tensions in management learning and development and professional education for the last fifty years is the tension between the individual. The organization so if we're GONNA make every manager in the world effective we can't do it with my voice. Mike's Voice Keeton Sarah's voice. We just can't do it. We need help. <hes> we need more voices being heard more often about management professionalism ethics and people does horses law. It's all about people and so we realized that as often as people tell us how great the manager tools community is and how they've reached out to someone that we put them in contact with and that person helped him get a job. We're talking through a difficult situation. We we do less than we could in creating fomenting encouraging that demanded or tools community and Mike and I talked about it and realized the manager tools community in all the voices in it are our way smarter than us and so particularly for the executive level transition what gets me much more nuanced and so on we realized that for that for that senior manager or the manager WHO's in smaller company who starting to take on executive responsibilities the senior manager of the director to get to the next level. It'll be more effective for you to hear from other people who are already at that level and been through the transition. You're going through so the idea was let's have a series of manager tools community longtime members listeners managers executive people who have stories of started listening to us and grew through the ranks and what they'll tell you you're not going to sit through ten hours of our however many hours it is of this is how to help me. We've actually discouraged that what they're going to talk about is the things that have made enormous difference difference for them in their career. What's more because this is about community as well? We're going to work very hard to make sure that all of the attendees and all of the speakers are able to stay in touch. We're not not just gonNA give them the your email addresses but we're going to encourage you and follow up to make sure that you have created new relationships that you'll know somebody in other industries. You'll know somebody who's going through what you've gone through that. You won't just have to ask me or somebody here. At Manager. Tools you can ask anybody who comes to the conference people in different industries presenters attendees and so on and we find that the people what was it Cadila just said the Microsoft Guy oftentimes. It's not the no it all that gets ahead but the learn at all and this is an opportunity to learn from people who have been where you are and have gone to the next level bill and have strong opinions about what that means and what it takes yeah. I'd say one of the thing these are people that we've learned from all my God. That's that's so good source folks. These are people who have been incredibly successful <hes> and continue to amaze us the things they do and the knowledge in wisdom they have around being an executive yeah and look we chose ten people we have close this relationship with and said will you come speak and every single one of them safe one who by the way is going to be an attendee said yes and the only reason he didn't speak we would love to have had them. There is because his company doesn't allow that now look for those. You don't know whenever we do a cast there's very detailed outline of the cast and typically we follow that outline fairly religiously except for my ransom rates and sidelines and so on the last thing we're GonNa talk about logistical details. I do want to say this. It is again nine and ten October in Dallas. It is not like a normal conference instead of one of US training and this is a management conference where there will be speakers multiple speakers from where to go through them so you can get to know them a little bit here in just a minute and the agenda is speaker after Speaker people we've selected for you and the opportunity for you to meet them get to know them and the other attendees informally <hes> so that you can maintain a relationship with them have a new mentor have somebody can reach out to M._e._d.. As well as the list this this is not one of neural thing. We're sending out a presenter. I mean marks GonNa be there. I'm going to be there when he's going to be there. CATES GONNA be there. Sarah's going to be there. MAG is going to be here. This is a full full on engagement for <hes> for the whole manager tools team so if for whatever whatever reason you want to meet us we'll all be there. I still remember the time I it's been twelve years ago. Somebody came to my house in Fredericksburg Texas Saturday afternoon and I had a little teeny house and little teeny separate separate office and apparently had knocked on the main door and I was by myself that weekend and then nobody answered so he came to what was clearly my office and he knocked on the door and I walked to the door and had a shorts and flip flops ups and a t shirt on summer day Texas and he said Hi. I said Hi this is are you more course yeah. He's I'm a big fan and I said of what the of the dodgers of the cowboys cowboys. You've been served yeah well yeah and I said about great but what are you doing here. He says shopping main street and soy came as well you WanNa beer and he came in and we had a beer was unusual but yes I'll be there and and I'll be talking <hes> but really all spend more time facilitating connections between everybody. That's there so just wanted to set up that logistical piece it is different. It is not a training session is it is a conference and we've chosen some people that we trust completely. We've asked them to think about what their topic is. We have given them no specific guidance about topics because we trusted them. That's why they're coming so let me just run through the speakers. Mike I think at a high level and for those you don't know if you come to the website managerial dot com slash am conference. You'll find an agenda. There's a frequent ask questions page. That's what to tell your boss page so you can print out and basically on Wednesday October night ninth. We have breakfast sign in at nine o'clock. We welcome everybody at nine thirty. Our first speaker is Karen. Atoms Karen is a long. Long time listener client and friend of the firm and is the president and C._E._O.. Of Fun Serve <hes> She was recognized in two thousand seventeen is one of candidates top one hundred most powerful women <hes> she was recently voted C._O.. The year by wealth professional in twenty nineteen really dynamic really forward thinking executive spent a long time working for H._S._B._c. the and became a client of ours when she was in Amman Jordan and dynamic direct no nonsense and she hasn't even told us what she's going to talk about because yeah we are not worried that she will like things up to begin the day following. Karen is a longtime friend of mine. Somebody who I think of is one of the most creative financial people I've ever Matt Gene Hill who's the chairman and managing partner of S._V. Health Investors. You've probably never heard of gene which is how gene likes it. He has been investing in healthcare companies for the last thirty years is exceptionally successful but more than that is one of the the nicest people I've ever met in my life. Yes he's been a very successful executive. Perhaps president of Behavioral Health United Healthcare Our C._E._O.. And President of U._S. Behavioral Health President Chairman of Sierra Health Life Insurance company I mean on and on and on one of the nicest ten nicest people I've ever known in my life when he meets you'll immediately warm direct and his topic is about how he chooses investments and when you become an executive you're going to have to make investment calls for your organization and Interestingly he uses Laird Hamilton surfing big waves to make his point and he had me and some friends at dinner a couple of months ago in rapt attention other people table were very successful people but they were amazed at how concise and easy gene made it to understand what but it was he does which I think is being over my head. We also have speaking Mark Grainger longtime friend of the firm. Mark is one of the few people who's ever been on the podcast right. That's right. He's that global head of talent talent for Debevoise Clinton which is a huge law firm based in New York. He used to be at Credit Suisse where he was a client and became a friend of ours has been in resources for a long a long time. He tells the story about his first time listening. I think he actually says I'm not sure like mark but this is really good stuff. He's British. She sounds British but he is exceptionally bright. He sounds British but but well did. I say that did I say but <hes> yeah. That's a sorry mark. Mark Grainger will laugh at me for that. I don't feel that way just disagree clear. I don't feel that way and mark is because he's had of talent and has been involved in recruiting <hes> his take on things. He's an important guide annot in the world in my opinion the next guy is will. I think we'll surprise a lot of people Charlie Chang. I've known Charlie for a few years. He's The C._E._O.. Of Company called T._C.. Lab in Silicon Valley Charlie's previous firm was a client of ours and I spent a great deal of time helping him build an organization before he sold the firm. He is exceptionally exceptionally bright about business in Asia. He's the guy who told me that. In China the the phrase they use for negotiation is I win You die and he is incisive and smart and funny funny and we'll probably challenge the audience which we recommend we also have Lauren Dryer who is an executive in human resources and in the technical world. We're not allowed to tell you what company she's from. We'll let you figure that out later and she is probably one of the two or three best H._r.. People have worked with in fact. Her talk is called embraced attention. I should've mentioned that Charlie's talk about China but but <hes> Lauren understands that there's attention pre managers and H._R.. And it's okay to have attention to understand that tension and you're better off understanding it and working within it then simply complaining about H._R.. which she kids me that I say too often and I we're lucky to have her because she's a very very busy person? We also have Dan mcgwire who some people have heard of. He's also been in the cast. I think there have been only four other voices on the cast in our entire history outside manner tools Dan and mark both of them from New York and then the other two were special cases. John Locked and I think Jim Collins was the other Guy Dan and has been a chief technology officer chief information officer for virtually every firm that you've heard of on Wall Street. We don't give them a hard time that he was a merchant marine officer <hes> <hes> yeah actually yes we do <hes> but he's probably one of our closest friends in the manager tools <hes> community we've known since the very beginning <hes> when he started listening he said the same thing actionable in its specific <hes> and he is. He's been on boards. He has fixed broken systems all over the world <hes> T._d.. Waterhouse Thompson Reuters Smith Barney Morgan Stanley at goes on and on and Dan is absolutely not afraid to tell you what it's really like to be an executive and the title of his talk should give you some sense that managing a hot L Z if you get asked to go somewhere and fix the problem and nobody knows it was you. What's that like? How do you do it because if you're going to be somebody of consequence in an organization? They're going to ask you to do that and solve the problem with almost no resources before they're going to give you you really truly significant responsibilities. That's all the speakers on day. One on day two probably one of my closest lifelong friends John Hoffman who might knows well John and Mike and I would school. School together. He's The C._E._O.. Pivotal Systems. I think it's his third or fourth role as a C._E._o.. In Silicon Valley he has they were the INC five hundred fastest growing us-based Engineering Company in Twenty Twenty fifteen. They recently listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. He's had a slew of successes in Silicon Valley with applied materials at one point I think was the chief operating officer there. He's established offices for his firms in Taiwan Singapore China got his executive M._B._A.. From Stanford and arguably is the greatest leader of people I've ever met in my life life. I've met a lot and John will not pulling any punches either another good friend of the firm speaking after John by the way that we do reserve the right to move the things around if somebody's travel schedule has got messed up but I'm just following the agenda here next guy's Gerhard gross who is when he speaks will be the V._p.. Of Operations for America all the Americas North and South America for Daimler Financial Financial Services we met Gerhard when he was the CEO of Daimler Mexico <hes> and he has continued to go onto great things all over the world for Daimler one of the most gracious and and impressive people in terms of interactions a natural leader and I'm fascinated because he's talking about something that I don't get which is how autonomous driving thing is changing the automotive industry I seriously thinking about just sitting in and listening to that one because I don't get it and he and Craig glidden our friend who is the General Counsel General Motors both say the same thing get over it. It's coming so I'm looking forward to that. From Garard next is Ellen Schaefer one of our long time friends in fact wasn't Mike Wasn't Elton our first client he was he was and we told him no for for months and months and months months until he finally warned me down <hes> he is president of outdoor beauty and home. He's been with APP Tar for twenty five years all over the world <hes> he was president of North America Erica for sequenced <hes> which is now apt our home beauty <hes> a very dynamic naturally leader and he and I talked a lot about the learning we had gone through our careers and he said I think one of the things I want to tell people as you're supposed to develop yourself and a more devote person creates more value for the corporation so that's what his talk is going to be about and I can assure you elden will be at the top of the list of the most likeable bowl of all the speakers and last. We have one of the most creative futuristic people I've ever met in my life. <hes> a non deputy avalon a Nanda is <music> a vice president with <hes> publicist sapient <hes> he his clients are in the finance world. He lives in London. <hes> he's a close friend of the firm. A Nanda is more forward thinking he's way ahead of the curve on machine learning artificial intelligence agile scale things like that and when he sent me the outline of his talk called exponential thinking I was blown away I I mean it's obvious when you read it but most of us don't think about it if we're going to live to one hundred when in fact the world where in now is built for people to live to eighty. What does that mean for you your organization as well your your kids because your kids are GonNa Learn live to one hundred and five and a world is not built that way? That's the kind of things in my opinion that executives have to be thinking about executives have to think about the future because management sticking about this week and if nobody thinks about the future the future will you in the face as it happens when your competitors come out with new tools that you haven't anticipated when your customers choose to go somewhere else because someone else's serving the better so the last slot is for us to talk about the future of management and give our take on things but frankly I would be happy with another speaker because when I listened to when I talked to the speakers about what what they're gonNA talk about. I said I can do this for three days really really really excited and I suppose Mike at this point. You're going to tell me that I have to talk about logistics at least a little bit a little bit. I think that's what people are going to be at right now because hopefully at this point they've they've been convinced that they should come or they'd like to come yeah. So we have a couple of incentives. We should've mentioned at the top of show but I'm trying to follow Simon cynics thing where he says don't tell them what the now and then why start with the y and then telling the how and then ultimately tell him the what so again Dallas nine and ten October it costs three thousand dollars which is more good bit more than than a typical on the other hand. It's a two day long conference. Every single attendee will pay three thousand dollars but two thousand of those dollars. We'll go to credit for your license for the next next ten years. If you're already a licensee it's going to save you two thousand dollars of the life of your license. If you're not a licensees you're you're going to enjoy the benefits being a licensee in terms of things I think I think in three random things and of course all the show John Notes and access to me for management help and so on come to the website and sign up you can send me mail at a horseman at Manager Dash Tools Dot com. I'll be happy to answer your questions if you WanNa talk to. One of the speakers beforehand will be happy to arrange that if you're wondering what they're gonNa talk about or anything at all now to be fair. There's only fifty slots. We were worried that we have two hundred and fifty people and it would just be a big big crowd. The reason we wanted smaller is so that you can step out of the talk to talk to one of the other speakers. There'll be plenty of time between talks. They'll be time in the evening love. The first day dinner is designed to facilitate those those kinds of conversations that lead to lifelong friendships. We have set up before that. The most important rituals cast is building your network and we want to help you build yours and we want to help build it with people that we trust and respect.

executive Mike Dallas senior manager president Mark Grainger Karen Charlie Chang Mark Voice Keeton Sarah director John China Lauren Dryer US attorney New York Texas Mark I Credit Suisse
Taking Blockchain Games to the Next Level with Animoca

The Bad Crypto Podcast

1:03:25 hr | Last month

Taking Blockchain Games to the Next Level with Animoca

"Lizard activation rockstar games epic games. These are some of the behemoths of the traditional video gaming world. The one thing they all have in common is they all started with a dream and vision and they all had dogged persistence and determination to be best in class. There's several companies in the blockchain world that are seeking to become leaders in the blockchain gaming space but few have been as persistent and focused as amoako brands. Yacht sues company is absolutely exploding with acquisition and creation of their own coming at a breakneck pace. Today we're pleased to welcome robin young. The ceo of a mocha to join us for an exciting conversation around the future of blockchain gains. Then we bring you a great story of a young man. Who's become a multimillionaire by banking on animal. Hey your role your dacia move your mice. Nobody gets hurt at least we hope that's the way it works out on this episode number. Five hundred twenty. Three of the bed crypto podcast and readings friends of blockchain crypto currency entity and games and bad dad jokes like. This is the bad crypto. Podcast that is travis right episode number five to three in your ear holes just like the other five hundred twenty two plus another eighty plus another few that we the numbering systems all screwed up on ours. But it's like episode number six hundred and fifty kinda we don't really know but we glad you're here 'cause you must be crypto curious or maybe you're even though series crypto cloud. Maybe you're all of that. Welcome the backup to hot gaseous shows. A good one day folks. We already interviewed both of these folks today. And these are you're gonna enjoy listening to this reminds gonna be blown a bit but before that we got any test joel wants to tell you about. Oh yeah you just said my name for the first time. I'm like i through to you. I said that's travis right and do you say and that's joel comm. No you saying. I'm so calm and astros right. I didn't i. Didn't say hey. You guys could. Just guess who. I am like other guy. Actually it's joel and the other guy but that's any task the freelance marketplace the only place that allows freelancers to sell digital tasks and earn cryptocurrency e. T. n. means. You don't need a bank account in a means there's no fees for the sellers. These guys have gained widespread adoption. You can check it out for yourself. At bad code i n ford slash any task and now a we should be totally transparent here because we have before about we are advisers with anim- okay and delightfully so because these guys blow us away. We've had yacht sue on the show before and today we've got rob young. Think you guys are really going to enjoy this because this is what we believe is the future of watching gaming. We are frequently referenced. A company on the show that we've had the pleasure to work with multiple times and actually work in an advisory capacity with them. And i think out of all of the companies. We've had the pleasure to work with. None of them is doing more unique. Things especially in the blockchain gaming space in that company is animal brands. and travis i think When we reference in america we have said multiple times at it. Seems like everything yacht. Sue and get touch turns to gold it does. It's like. He has got the midas touch over there and today we have with us the c. e. o. robbie young. How're you doing over there. Good how are you guys doing. Thanks for having me absolutely you know. Animal is is leading the way in so many ways and that you've got a background in media and in tech and in publishing and seems like everything you've done is really come together to be able to lead this brand forward and we're going to. We're gonna talk a little bit about the different brands that you're working with. But i wanna i talk about the overall vision because it seems to travis in myself that there's two ways to onboard masses into crypto on blockchain and that is through gaming an nf tease and. That's something that is doing both. And so what is the overall vision of how you on board. You know the world billions of people to i think from our perspective like when we first got into this business you know. We came from game development background. We were doing a mobile games for years. And we've been partnering with brands for years so we've always worked as a as a licensed of lots of famous. Ip's and it was a skill that we felt really translated into what we started doing in blockchain games when we started working with the folks at what's now called dapper on publishing crypto kitties back in the beginning of two thousand eighteen that was kind of our our gateway drug into blockchain gaming. Because that's that's how we got hooked. And i think what we realized very quickly it was. We saw amazing opportunity to basically connect with not only existing crypto communities But also the world of gaming that we came from because one of the things that we felt was really missing in the crypto community was in crypto parlance utility. Because there were so many tokens out. There this was just in the back of twenty seventeen when there were lots of ico's and we felt there was a huge opportunity to try to bring more utility into the crypto worlds through gaming. Because one thing is a is a universal. Which is that. Everybody loves to play games. And and i think that gaming often gets overlooked in the sort of mainstream consciousness because people always think about films music and tv but actually the game industry by any measure number of players revenues etc is far bigger than all of those combined honestly You know so. I think that's one thing when you think about. This may not have been true fifteen years ago but posts mobile smartphones gaming is by far the biggest entertainment medium on earth. Yeah you're able to pick up your phone and play a quick couple minute game and then be on your way right so you don't have to dive in and spend hours on a game you can just. I got a couple minutes here. I'm gonna go bust out a game I want to actually let people know the of what animal is doing. This is from your leaked in when you talk about some of the different things you guys are doing with the formula you with the former one partnership that you guys have in the project. There you guys have worked with some guys delta. Time is one of the projects that you're working with actually has a web token with that. You have the sand token because you guys are behind the sandbox which is huge. It's a huge metaverse area. Crazy kings the crazy defense heroes. You guys also working with brands like marvel and wwe garfield snoopy power rangers like this is. This is unreal. You guys have not only worked in partnered with dapper labs. He has also worked with walks. And the central land. You guys also acquired quid. Which is our i mean. think about. They're the ones that that in a lot of ways helped develop digital collectibles when they were over there tops that he moved over and created quid. And also we've had the the ceo of gamy on the podcast as well. You guys have your hands in a whole lot of stuff. And i think he maybe go to the back to the origins of this i like he a cadet house and you guys were building different games. Along the way you're gonna watch a great designers and then how did blockchain come along you said. Oh crypto kitties is doing some blockchain and maybe kind of go into that era. Because i think that's fascinating so what happened. Was that actually working with a great company In vancouver back in twenty seventeen and we were in the process of acquiring the business And as we acquired them One of the principles of that business also by coincidence was one of the co founders of axioms in which later became dapper laps that was trying to figure out what was the name of a before because we interacted with axiom. Zen before they dafur labs in the accident. Remember that exactly and so it. Was you know like many things in life. It was just coincidence. Them that we got introduced at the time and We started talking about what they were doing crypto candies and it piqued our interest because obviously mobile gaming particularly in casual gaming had started to plateau little bits in terms of user growth and we were looking for new areas of growth and and we thought this was really exciting. Let's let's see what it is so we decided to partner with them to be the publisher of crypto kitties in greater china and honestly. It took us about three months to decide to just devote all. Our energy is dev energy on developing things where we could integrate token ization. Let me put it that way into games. Because i think there's a role for both fungible tokens as well as nf in games and the reason that this made so much sense to us was because gamers have been using virtual currency to buy virtual items for decades not decades more than a decade right since world of warcraft and all those massive eh memos and then through the mobile era so there are over a billion people around the world who every day spend virtual currency to buy virtual items in game economies. And if you just replace those with your see twenty tokens and nfc's still be doing exactly the same thing but getting much more benefit as players. Because they would really own stuff as opposed to just existing a rental economy. Which is what most games today are so for us. We thought this makes so much sense because we actually don't have to train consumers to do anything new they just keep doing what they're doing but we're gonna make life much richer and more fulfilling for them as players. So that's that's kind of the original seed of the one of the things i really like. Is that as you're acquiring these companies such as quit and gamy you're looking at them and going okay. These have their own in game type of currency. But how do we blockchain of fi this and take it to the next level and you know one of the things that you're doing with the quit app now is meant to bowls right because you've had a seven million users in quid. We we had like ramblers from the previously. Gave us the amazing numbers and in. You've got all these people that are collecting all this cool stuff from these major. It's right. i mean you've got so many different. Ipm's in there that are just globally known but people haven't been able to take those input them on blockchain but that's getting ready to change in one of the first set of mental is actually from the blockchain heroes brand because we partnered with quid to release those and in. We're killing in there. So thanks to quit in animal for that great and i noticed here that another animal brand is now entered the quid ecosystem in for those you watching the video. It's the rare towers from this tower. Defense game crazy. Defense heroes as i see this integration. Taking place are we going to see you know f one delta time stuff. Show up in quid. Are we gonna see them. You know characters race car driver showing up in sandbox. Is this one big verse. So i think the idea. The idea is really. That's when we work with brand partners also we want to try to give them the benefit of distribution and access and we won't players to have a very rich ecosystem so i think it works from both sides so when we work with you know a brand to create a blockchain game we also when we're creating collectibles in that game because you have game characters. That are teas that people can collect. It's great for the people who buy those nfc's to be able to use them in multiple locations have access to different versions of them so they can have a playable character. They can have a playable character that they can bring into the sandbox which then is in a vauxhall of the same playable character and they can also have a a tradable collectible card included for example the three d. card that also represents the same t from a different environment because we want to try to create as much richness to the experience of the players and owners as possible as nice actually just opened up a pack of those the the rare tower ones and got one of each one of them as nice guys. There's you know. I love the the lower mint ones where there's only like two thousand of them being minted. Iva blockchain heroes when they when we did those over there they Five hundred thousand of that right. And until people were going in their downloading. What's fun is you create this game if occasion within that particular app that if you collect this x. Amount of time that gives you the ability to to snag this additional thing like here's the enchanted mental so the creative team over there phenomenal that quit now. They also is that from that design studio. Do you guys had originally built or is that what was one of their existing s. They've already have so. I think they they already had those those resources to create those things. In as you've seen probably on quid we've also started to do fully three d collectibles as well and i think that's an exciting part of the experience but the most important thing is they really understand what collectors enjoy about collecting. And so it's about creating as you said big additions at low prices. Small editions at more high end. Collectible prices Understanding how to organize sets so that people can have a little bit of a challenge to collect a full set and try to complete sets. And i think that's what makes the collecting ecosystem really vibrant and prior to bringing it on the web. Quid began as a pure mobile app. And so for the last four years. It's been the biggest collectible marketplace but restricted into an app environment. The ability to unlock those assets in the chain of those as joe said to me. That was a no brainer. When i when i i was like wait. A second and mocha just acquired. Quit and and we've been chat with with yard or anybody. I'll just like wait. A second anamika just acquired quit on so that tells me they're going to unlock those assets. Bet sometimes so. I went in and started buying some of those panini cards was like wait a second of nba. Top shot is going. Some of these cars are going for several hundred thousand dollars in some cases a couple two three hundred thousand dollars. I was like man. This low kobe over here. This could be valuable as michael. Michael probably said to you those nba cards on quid or the only digital collectible nba cards. That you can sell for cash. Today that exists in the world. That's it really interesting because we're On top shot. It doesn't are you seeing them in a different category because carcass. The romance so so right now. They're they're moments so it's kind of a different medium and people are are trading within the ecosystem So it's slightly different because it's all on flow at the moment whereas with quid as you guys know it's cashing in cash out at the moment because it's a pure cash marketplace you know. I also like how the team is open and receptive enlists you know because blockchain heroes are minted on wax and so for those who are getting the mental ones. We talked to michael last week off lined and he agrees that that would be the best way to take the minto version so that people can bring them into the blockchain heroes collection on on wax. And so i love it. You guys were paying attention really listening to the community to see what direction you know you go next so and also we're agnostic so we just we won't work with whoever's got the right product fit for whatever the they the market wants and whatever makes sense for the for the particular game or collectible products were creating so we work with wax. We work with. Flo we work with you know polygon. We work with everybody. Which i think is going to really pay off the long run because if you know you see things going. The way we see things going is eventually. They're all going to be able to come together. And you're going to have all this cross. Jane interoperability moving not from a theory to to wax and from waxed polygon wherever whatever ecosystem. It provides totally totally agree. That's gonna be huge. So i wanna i wanna point out here. I'm actually on your on your website. And i actually remember this. This happened a couple of weeks ago. Where you guys you guys got the magic number of according to I guess the chinese lucky nece you guys got eighty eight million eight hundred eighty eight thousand eight hundred eighty eight dollars in funding receiving a total value of evaluation of a billion dollars over there. So congratulations on that. And what what should we know about that. Because that's that's the race over there. Yes was as you said. That was eight. And if you if you didn't know eight is of course a very lucky number in chinese culture asian culture and As one as one article reported it we raised almost eighty nine million could. Because i don't think they got the new was out there you go. I got a little superstition in there. We are we are and in fact in fact we mentioned it as a moment for all the participants in the round. 'cause it's part of the nfc culture. But i think what we're really excited about is obviously you know it's a it's a massive fundraise for us. We're really pleased about it. Gives us a lot of runway to do really great stuff But i think the big part of it is that we were able to bring in a lot of great partners who come from traditional finance and are not specifically blockchain or crypto funds. People who are still relatively new to the space so that includes kingsway. Rothschild's ellison people who are not your typical crypto investors and. I think that is fantastic. Because it shows. I think that you know our small part of this industry is going a little bit more mainstream and starting to attract attention outside of our usual bubble and i think that's a real good sort of harbinger industry so i'm curious about this. You've got the rev token which is used in f one delta time. You've got the sand token that used sam of the gamy token for gamy. Is there a future where this becomes one token to roll them all. So i think the idea here is that we see tokens and blockchain's as being very cultural just like games. Are you know some people like to play tower defense games. Some people like first person shooter games. Other people like puzzle games. There's there's something for every taste. And i think what you'll find. Is that people who are on wax or on a theory him or on different blockchain's there are actually communities with their own culture in their own flavor. And so we're trying to replicate that in. How we create tokens. Because we see. Also these tokens is being a bit of a store of culture because the river token is about motorsports for example and the ideas that holders of rev have lots of opportunities to use them for things that are related to their passion which is motor sports. So you can use it in time. You use it in motiv- gp mission you can use it to buy undone watches. You can use it to buy crypto motors. And we're adding more and more partners within the motor sports than motor sports adjacent field. So that reve really has a lot of capabilities surrounded surrounding motor sports. And then we're doing the same with each of the other tokens at the same time. Obviously we are a group. We have a lot of companies subsidiaries. So we want to encourage them to work together so we do create events. So you can you know do staking and add liquidity to pools that involve rev. And gimme together for example because we want to encourage people in our community to go check out. What's going on in the game. You community because there might be something fun for them there. Too is is such an exciting time. And i i wanna i wanna ask you this because you see a lot of cool projects you see a lot of different game projects you see a lot of. Nf t projects that are going on as well as ecosystem. What are some of the coolest use cases so far that you've seen for nf and gaming coolest use cases honestly. I think. I have to say i mean to to our own. I think it's the sandbox to be honest Because i think that the coolest uses for. Nf teas are a ballot involving them as playable characters in very deep experiences discuss the deeper the experience better. I think what what i really love about the sandbox. The most is that it. It's all about user generated content end users can be you know the general public or they could be corporates or professional media. Entertainment companies that are that are creating like an atari theme park or something like that. And so i think to me. That's really exciting. Because the richness of experience is huge and sandbox is a great example of that. Because it's very diverse obviously when delta time as a very rich experience but it's focused on a single category. Which motoracing would you. Sandbox is sorta like for people who've never played it because there's was a lot of people who are in crypto l. Listen to our show. But they don't necessarily dive into the metaverse yet. This is sort of like minecraft two point. Oh it is. Although i i would say. It's actually it's inspired by both minecraft andrew blocks and the idea. Was you know. Those games are incredible. Incredible user-generated content versus and the sandbox was the same. It was the original game was a to d primarily mobile game metaverse and it was all user generated content and the guys behind the sandbox had the idea to make a three d version and the timing just happened to be twenty seventeen when they were planning to do it and this was when the nfc standard was being written and so they came up with the idea of. Hey maybe maybe it would be cool to try to put this on the blockchain and that was when we came together we became the largest shareholder in their business and help them to sort of chart this path into blockchain finding their original game which was already a ten year old very successful mobile franchise but the idea is this user generated. Content category is by far the biggest game category. When you think of the outsized success of these two titles minecraft and you know everybody was talking so much about fortnight. A couple years ago it was really on the sort of public consciousness every every middle aged parents. Teenage kids was complaining about how their kids did. Nothing but play fortnite for year but the funny thing is even though everybody talked about. How much fortnight was being played. Minecraft roadblocks both grew during that year. So if everybody was playing fortnight how come they grew will because people still didn't cut down on their minecraft roadblocks time their communities their their virtual worlds where kids hang out and socialize and create and just have fun. You know there there would. When i was a kid. We used to shopping malls to deal. I guess and you know used to work at what you know worked in. It's not just dad. It's games like four-night it's play the game. Rinse repeat right. It's it's essentially the same thing again and again but these creative environments like minecraft roablocks now sandbox. The only limit is your imagination. The tools that you're giving people are creating amazing stuff. There's no endgame it's just correct more creative and since there's no limit tonics when does when do you stop will you and the more you play the more you want to keep playing because now you're invested in that experience. Yes and the fun part is that you can actually create a game within the sandbox. So it's possible that if you just like to play you know tic-tac-toe somebody can do that in the sandbox. And you just play that game with a game so to speak or you can spend your time just exploring the entire universe of the sandbox. So there's as you said there's something for everybody which you know is a really powerful thing and as we've seen even an opportunity for people to make money doing stuff on this right you can make different amount of money like i know. My daughter plays a roadblocks time. She loves blogs. She's an amazing minecraft. Builder built all these amazing thing. It's like wow now knowing that sandbox is like a combination of those two. I need to get hurt figuring out how to build a little cool things to earn herself. Some sand will and that's the thing because this is this. Is the player earned model because you know creating stuff within the sandbox. While it's easy enough that anybody can do it. It still takes time like building legos. Right it takes a certain amount of time to make something sophisticated and so if your daughter has time to spend creating something cool then somebody else can come along like me. Who doesn't have time and i'll pay money. I'll pay sand to buy that cool creation. Because i don't have the time to make that myself but i want one and so she can then put it in the marketplace and sell it and that creates an amazing you know we we created a creator fund already two years ago and seeded it with a million dollars at the beginning just to basically pay graphic designers and artists from around the world who were interested in the community to just create cool stuff because we wanted there to be lots of cool stuff. When people i went into the game to be able to buy amazing creations and that was kind of how we see did the content but honestly it's just exploded so we've got a forest of content now and we're really excited about it. One of the things that i love about building in the virtual worlds is for anybody who's apparent. You would know that. Legos are actually instruments of death and destruction. You step on those things that you know as you're walking through the livingroom flipper so you have to be paying attention to what's happening in the gaming industry at large. I've i've been a lifelong gamer. I was one of those at subscribe to wile in two thousand four played. Vanilla still maintain a subscription. Even though i rarely played fifteen bucks a month so as you look at these other game companies. You've got gotta have your eye on blizzard. Activision right in in epic in trying to second. Guess what are they going to do. And when are they going to do it. What do you see happening. When will they pull the trigger in get involved in the blockchain world. I think it's something that they monitor very closely but in reality. I mean for all practical purposes. I think it's going to be a very long time before they start to gravitate towards it. I think we can see that. Because if you look at the companies that were very big on console and pc look at how long it took them to migrate a mobile in some cases it took them five to ten years after mobile became a you know five or ten years after angry birds proved that mobile was massive while they're lumbering corporate beast right. I mean these things. Move slowly by design. Yes and also. They have incredible franchises. So they don't actually need necessarily to stay on the to have the most cutting edge product on a new platform because they already extract so much value from their existing franchises. And i think what we'll see is culture. They it's gonna be very hard for them to embrace the amount of openness that having a blockchain game then if he's You know entails because their traditional business model is basically creating rental economy and building a moat around their customers to make sure that none of the customers leak out into other competitive platforms whereas what we're talking about him. Blockchain gaming is actually getting rid of the moat drawbridge altogether in opening it up completely incenting. Hey these are great. Nfc's i'm making over here in one delta time or gamey or tower and if you want to buy them take them anywhere go and use them in other people's games you know run free and that's from a traditional game development standpoint is terrifying because you've always thought from a mentality of trying to keep everybody inside we have. We have mobile devices like apple right. That's closed ecosystem for the most part they don't want they don't want you to play you. Don't get a play. they don't want you. They don't want you on their app store or the united their app store and i love this idea of opening things up and there are so many different blockchain's now that are you know. Nf t friendly. I would ask you to say there's somebody out there who's thinking about doing an nf t project of some sort. Yup what are some of the parameters that you go through to think about. Like which one would this blockchain you know best best. What advice would you give us. I think about building a project might be building project. And i'm thinking about sure i think The first thing is obviously while a theory is arguably created the most opportunity in the blockchain game sector Unfortunately it's become a victim of its own success as we all know because gas fees have just made it difficult to have anything but a very premium product on a theory you know until version two point. Zero is really out there in about fully. So i'd say at the moment. Side chains like polyglot are fantastic. There's also obviously finance. Smart chain is quite popular one. And i think it's important to think about an obviously flow who we work with suicide tremendous success with an nba. Tom sean and i think that these are examples of types of chains that you can work with that have very thriving. Ecosystems already of nfc collectors game creators at another one. Actually that we've been spending a fair bit of time on now is Is near so we. We think they're doing some exciting stuff as well near near. I saw that you guys are doing some stuff with darryl hash graph as well starting to where we are. We are so. We're we're focusing their specifically undoing a football or soccer for you guys in the in north america soccer content with dera because they've come up with a special tech geared towards rooting out Cheating in games because now that everything's you know all of the meta data can be on chain and you can also help to eliminate cheating nice. So let's talk about what happens next at least to the degree that you can reveals or any Acquisitions partnerships anything. That's not totally maybe in the public yet. Give us a little tease about store. I mean i think one of the things that we've been spending a lot of time on as everybody knows is Working on sports related content. And i think that sports related content makes a lot of sense in these early days of blockchain gaming because it's a wonderful intersection of really compelling action oriented gaming married with a collectible aspect because they're such a rich history of collecting sports related memorabilia trading cards etcetera so it enables not only action game but a lot of meta games in the same type of product and so f one delta time was our first attempted creating that kind of products. That was kind of our our note. Version one point zero of sports blockchain game that keep in mind that we started working on that in twenty eighteen. So it's been a long road to build a rich experience we're following that up with moto. Gp we already formula e. will follow that And i think you could imagine that there will be more motor sports content to build out an enriching the rev ecosystem following on those three titles as well because we really want to sort of build up a solid franchise in this genre. That'd be fun. I just say based on those those kind of you know motor motor. Sports would be a monster truck southern with monster trucks. Because you know fun like me you get to build your custom mosser truck super huge wheels and you go you a smash. Fte's in the end. The cool thing is once you own it as an nfc. You never need to take it to the repair shop to be maintained. It lasts forever so true. I want to ask about a previous question. I was talking about around. Because you mentioned matic apollo gone now but it's a magic token and and how there's a lot of great stuff going on there. Somebody asked me a question about this. And i don't know that i had the answer. And because it's interesting to think about so theorems gonna launch their a two point oh to be able to launch staking eventually gonna be proof of stake instead of whether it is now. What do you think happens to some of those side chains once once during two point. Oh launches be is is going to be a need for for matic in and stuff like that. I don't know that there's going to be from a technical standpoint. i don't think there's a necessity for it. So the obvious advantage of gasped fees differential in gas fees goes away. And but i don't think that that changes necessarily their business proposition. Because obviously you know it's just like it's just like a broadband provider. You have a choice of six different ones and you don't just need one because they all offer different types of services and they all offer different packages and i think the same thing is going to be true with the side chains because they're going to have different performance characteristics in different things that they do well depending on the application so for example some of them i suspect will be much better. For defy applications for example in some will be better for gaming orabi. We appreciate you coming on today. In in sharon a little bit about what animals up to in your vision for the future. Of course anybody wants to go check it out and you should and a mocha brands. Dot com is the central spot for all things animal. And we'll be keeping up with you. Good circus yacht in the team or cooking up some gaming goodness over there but thank you guys really appreciate the chance to come on and and it's great to chat with you so much for coming on bad grip dome. Ceo animal rants. Love what they're doing so there's somebody else out there who loves what amoako brands has been doing. Jewel and This guy right here has been paying attention to animal for quite a while. And then some happened. He was investing in the stock market down at the australian stock exchange the s. x. Then all of a sudden the asx pulled it cooled off animal for awhile but this guy was like i don't. This is not the tearing my love for animals. I'm gonna keep on loving you and a mocha and he did in this interview right here. With is sean hawk is going to warm. The cockles of your heart. The cockles of your hot. It's been said no guts no glory if you don't take risks than not only can you not fail but you can't succeed and this is where the story gets real interesting and i'm not going to reveal the punchline yet. I'm just going to say that. We have a young man with us coming from brisbane australia. He's twenty one years old and his name is shawn. Hawk is sean. Welcome to bed. Crypto banks having me on a here okay. So you're obviously a smart young man because you have become a multimillionaire by taking a rest at the age of twenty one. What your parents must be thinking what. Yeah my parents think. I'm a bit of a degenerate yet. Taking taking these bets But yeah the the the proud that happy I'm not being really ostentatious. I mean it's paper plates. I'm walking around with billions of dollars in my bank account Yeah it's kind of paper. We'll see if i can cash out needs to come out But yeah my parents are pretty pretty happy about it at first. They want classes fit Dangerous but now it's it's kind of In the ride and gets it's kind of happy. Well let's let's talk about. How what risk did you take. An. how did you get rich on paper so that you could not be ostentatious by the way five points for using that word good job. Thank you Try to every day Yeah like maybe just to quickly go back in time in two thousand seventeen an tosco and i don t university Studied finance in computer science. And i stumbled across an investing club And i would dislike. Hey pick an asset and right research reports on it And so as like a seventeen eighteen year old bonds commodities and indices exciting And so my head. Kinda of crypt And at the time was relatively unknown in the mainstream ills around like nine hundred dollars. Bitcoin so i started buying some but also a threat that yeah i kind of really dug deep into it and sort of educating students about crypto bitcoin adrian and then eventually tease And so in. Twenty eight hundred a year later. I was looking at what to buy after Crypt berm. i made a bit of money. I didn't make noise those. But i made a bit of money and we went in the winter of tripped. Her at this point bust happened Ak where type up this money now. and so. I came across anamika brands which was back then. A marble games develop the had a few hit games but they weren't doing anything blockchain But until of announced that they were going to be the distributor a great china also a cryptic. it is Which dabs earns And so when they announced that they were like. Hey we're going to pivot into blockchain gaming. That was kind of interesting to me just because a of only being you know the pasta. I've been researching it will about blockchain and crypt are But also in high school. I ran like michael service for businesses. So light you know i understand. I understood the marriage between teens and gaming So at this point. I was like kind of interesting. Isn't that boring Answer i'll put money into it and just keep following the story and see and see what they will do. Nafta's went really thing. That'll i'm still a And so but then. I can travel a lover of at america and console story and not as that over twenty two eight under and twenty but had a lot of activity in the space of partnering up with everybody instead of building actually building sort of a blockchain games of outline atlanta vision so Yeah i started putting Every every a little bit of money. I could entice anamika. is An eventually in twenty twenty They got delisted from stock. exchange In during pervert and soviet australian stock exchange the asx yes animals like hong kong base but they were listed in australia. And that's how. I came across them. 'cause i was looking at australian stocks by inter Some from australia But then the australian governmental action the asx the regulatory body that controls the stock exchange. There were like hey. We caught it on like crypto. It's kinda weird whenever they lack these blockchain companies You know this is too early for us right now. Let's kick these companies off so they kind of in a kind of an instant got kicked off and my investment which was going pretty. Well ended up being left syria. Those and i couldn't access it at this time. This was a lot of my. This is like how much money I kind of panicked at the start. But then as the months went on i did. More research talked to the people behind. Animal i Worked with actually a block house. Blockchain consultants whatever that really meant back then Especially as unions. I don't really know what else talking about. But what it meant is somebody was like hell. Blockchain is and you would give like a two cents explanation. That makes you a consultant. Yeah i yeah. Yeah some some bullshit explanations and and i engaged on a mock company and sort of really really digging deep into to Doing got more and more conviction that. Hey this is probably my version of getting a client base type investment and what i mean by. That is if you'll early on in. Bitcoin you You can buy bitcoin. You could buy buy spot and but you'd have to ride through the wave of the volatility of guy temps and gone down twenty percents single day And so quaint. Base would have been a great alternative or diversified investment. Getting equity in something that had exposure to to bitcoin. Such was like hey and if you of buying individual. nfc's playing around with itchy. Betsy things i could just buy equity in the company. That's probably going to be a player in the space And so during the almost the end of loss year in september toyota. Getting to the juicy but nasa i ramble ceylon. But i was like. Hey i'm gonna try and buy as much of democracy as i could possible. And so they would deal at this point sur. It's it's privately traded secondary trading. And so that's the question is as a part of your story. How are you. How are you connecting. And being able to buy 'em okay if animal is delisted. How are you able to to to manage that. Yes our day engaged. A secondary trading platform code primary markets is basically a platform where you can connect with other investors of a private company and buying south from them and so through that but also those facebook groups of like animal shareholders. 'cause you know once dealers we wanted to like all talk about how will pull now and so does facebook groups rented groups and stuff like that light brennan and stuff like that so I tried to talk to everyone. I could and i could sense of panic but i was kind of during this whole time. I wasn't panicking. I was getting a conviction that. Nfl will probably going to be a thing Gaming's probably the first avenue to sort of get some mainstream adoption I didn't i was gonna be. I didn't know we're going to go through a berm early but Yes i ended up getting matched with seven shareholders to buy a million shows some more than doubling my previous holding I did sell quite a bit. Bitcoin to to to find this Which i worked out but over time this is a better time in that timeframe but Yeah i ended up buying million shares from seven different shareholders one of the shareholders. I don't wanna name but was like this big hotshot Director of like a billion dollar company listed on asx and I ended up buying the shares at a sixty percent discount to last traded price certain. Lost traded like eighteen cents I negotiated to buy dash is at seven cents and then few months goes by an. Fte is got really really hot. And i remember in march a seven cents. And i had a hong kong fund out and say hey we want to buy or your shares for million does at at sixty cents or something And i was like really hot Donald what like. I should maybe not take this. He crazy But ended up taking it just because they kind of aggressive. We'll buy everything you've got And also she got a game and probably and yet not even a month after annika raise like a dollar ten per share and you're mice worth in in the lower few millions and the rest for the moment is is you know history to be made still because we are fans and we think that you know. This is not investment advice but We think that animal has a bright future as do you. So so what's next. Sean what are you going to do with With this money. And what are you're just getting started. You're just an adult. You're young adult now. You have your whole life behind you. What do you wanna do yes Look i believe her animal. I still think that the Secretary of dabble labs dabs recently. Raised amongst around. They raised not like a two and a billion dollar valuation and a month later. Raise like a seven billion ovation sir I know the space was hot. And it's going off and cycles happen. But i think in the long term trend. I think you're a billion dollars. Anima is probably a early stages And i with the investment. I plan to hold on As you have a longer term view of it But in terms of what's next i i wanna try cheap. You're finding these opportunities. It's very odd to obviously and this was now very lucky W but yeah. I think i'm gonna continue looking for these Asymmetric upside Type bets And tiger will keep doing that. Because if i lose everything at the end of the day eldest reshot a kinda young and i really have a low risk. I didn't have kids and stuff like that. So that that's that's my plan to keep keep going on with that degenerate mentality. That's that's phenomenal. And you have like a backstory behind that like your parents got out. It looks like he got out of a bad situation. Bangladesh and then moved to south africa and then moved to australia and so they've had a pretty interesting life. It sounds like at least from story over here and Yeah yes oh yeah definitely so. My parents were born in bangladesh. Grew up in not the best conditions over that Alex say you know. My parents kind of won the lottery twice because they got out of bangladesh Lived south africa and in south africa especially in the nineties it wasn't the greatest admirers. And that's where. I was born So there's a lot of violence and so they go out of there and came to australia sir to get out of bangladesh and south africa Coming up stralia Was was phenomenal. so yeah i sort of grew up. I was very lucky. Al's like a kids like baby. Kim surveillance side will sort of bad stuff. I don't really remember i. I remember a strategy of the beaches and united the nice weather and Yeah i truly lucky and grateful I grew up relatively normal In an australian. Cy young Blow the monday night. And i We won't you're you're smarter like i was a baby like your baby's still but you're very smart rich baby now. You're not going to blow the money your guy you know. You're going to be wise with it. you have. I think a natural sense of financial world that they don't teach school write. You didn't learn this in school. You learn this yourself by going and doing your research. Yeah definitely Yeah i probably yeah. I don't want to make big assumptions by probably probably would be more ahead. If i didn't go to meeting as much maybe dropped out oil. Something is taking up climate time during especially my last year and Yeah i didn't think i attended. Maybe like three classes I never went to university. I never really anything So yeah i also like being. One of those people will say You know i. I made this money. And i didn't meaning To or should pursue higher education. But i'm yeah i think from a hustler Yeah i i didn't really learn much. I didn't either even years ago i was. I graduated college. Nineteen eighty six. And i just learned a party that was it because i went for a stupid liberal arts degree which you know sorry to you. Liberal arts majors out there. But you know i think my feeling. Is this that unless you're going to college to be a professional that. Is you know a lawyer doctor. Engineer rates something. That's going to require that degree to get a job. There's not a lot of point in going to an undergrad university for the first two years. You know my recommendation. This is educational advice. Even though i am not an educational advisor is the first two years. Go to community college. Save money right. It's it's ridiculous. How much these universities cost these days. And especially since they're become indoctrination centers now down soap boxing here and then if after two years. You've got a direction for professional degree. Go to university and pay your way to get the damn degree otherwise just you know life will teach you just go do what you wanna do. Especially if you have entrepreneur. Don't you think. Trevor wami thing of all the places that you can go to get education now you to me at x. You can go to core. Sarah you can go to masterclass. There's all these different online places. There's just so many you can. You can sit in on stanford classes an mit classes for absolutely free. And you don't get the degree from them. But i mean. I i about university of phoenix wright online. Yeah but that cost you money. The other those other ones are very minimal. You wanna learn some great skills man you to me i. I'm on you to me all the time. Great stuff just because it's like great courses smart people all. I need to learn how to do this. Photoshop or or aftereffects. Better is gone you to me. I'm not gonna go to college for a lot of the stuff that that i know. Even something went to college for its obsolete completely obsolete except for the network and the and the and the cloudy memories party times. Yeah i think ninety percent of like everything i have lent in possibly years has been like youtube like Exactly what i want to learn. If you're curious you'll just try and fill that appetite and yet like y- you to me. I left programming on a tree house or something which is like a curtain school yet. Like everything i've learnt was online. I was kind of born on the inset. Some yeah i've completed as they don't like when you when you a youtube to learn they want you to get your news from the the mainstream media because they've got a narrative that they want you to believe and you're not falling in line sean. You're thinking for yourself and that's that's really dangerous In this world. Because you're going to succeed in spite of the messaging that they're putting out there. So congratulations thank you. Yeah uptrend. Keep doing that. funny enough. Love that youtube videos i watch to let is like other like from twelve. Twelve year olds with a squeaky voice. Saying hey this is how you programmed using a world helping each other at Say it's kind of funny how that works but yeah we love we let we share your love amoako to say that whatever animal touches now turns to gold and so we've been working with a lot of different projects seeing what they do. Keep an eye on them. So great job. Finding anna mocha much. Sooner than we did thank you. Yeah yeah will next. You guys will find an x one What what's your favorite of anamika projects that they've got going on. What's all were were. Big fans of A lot of what they're doing but especially quit right now because we've actually got our blockchain heroes collectibles in quit and we're watching their their audience. Just eat them up on nine. Hundred hundred unders. Gobbling up blockchain heroes. That's really resonated with them. And and that means We're probably going to do more with them. Very excited to be working with them. And don't mean for this sound like an animal commercial is just that look gang. There are only so many game companies out there that are moving blockchain forward at the pace that these guys are and myself being a gamer. I remember watching the rise of blizzard and activision an accolade in the other game companies. You know throughout the last thirty years and this just there's a pattern that you start to see here and these guys are following this pattern that i've seen before so that's why we're paying attention and sean. That's why we've been glad to have you on the show. Thanks coming on today if somebody wants to get hold of you. What's the best way on social reach you. Yeah i'm on twitter at shawn hawk. I s. h. a. n. h. a. cure But other than that yet if you want to be out there Thank you so much for having me does Show my little shareholder story By adam oko yeah. This is not a pay an odd but of is going to go. And i'm okay. Yeah okay. this kid is just twenty-one is ozzie. And now he's sitting on millions mate in in anaheim brands in his parents are like maybe is not it out total wacko. We need you to go to school and we need you to do all of this. And he's like now. I need to do this and the he's done pretty well for himself. I would say now. Here's some things you guys can say. Guess what you can go on itunes and you can leave us a nice little review if you enjoy the content that we create. We don't charge you any money for the content. All we wanna know if you're enjoying it if you if you've been listening to you tune in so leave us a subscribe to the show and leave us a review and if it's a funny review we're going to read the review like this review right here. Wait there was no funny reviews this week. So we're not gonna read one. Maybe we just have a look jet. I'm actually going to go into our Our studio stuff right now and take a look here and see if there's any new reviews that we can use their it is this one just came in from erica. No other podcast like it. Five stars this podcast is beyond entertaining while also providing with great advice erica. We are not financial advisers. She goes joel and travis or a great duo indefinitely. Provide you with valuable information. If you're looking to learn more about crypto while also being entertained this podcast is for you now on its face. That's not funny but if you look at what. She said there about us providing great advice. That's kinda funny 'cause we don't. We provide mediocre advice. Now you don't listen to our advice. That's pretty good advice. I love the reviews yet whereas dulles in these guys they don't know what they're talking about. Well that's actually true in many respects we do know. Nf cheese like when it comes to crypto we can pass on some information But you know on telling you what to buy. Or you don't wanna i'm gonna read one other review here travis other podcasts the nifty show which is currently a five star rating. We invite you to listen to it by tropic vibes. I'm a believer spoiler alert. This show is awesome after hearing joel breakdown. Nfc's on fire. I had to hear more than fifty. Show killed all of my skepticism. About the blockchain. Finally i see practical. Use that i can dive into my first. Nfc had to be the profit blockchain hero. Because i've been converted. I see this light. I love the turtle twelve-year-old references in how they're not just talking about speculation. I have no clue if i bought the profited good price but i don't care and thirty four but feel like i'm in middle school opening my first pack of pokemon cards. Thanks for the show. Watch out world. If db's e or coming to america nafta's. Drop i'm hoarding ll. There you go so ballsy. nfc would be. Yeah they they better make more than the over nine thousand of them absolutely so thanks for the review and we invite you guys to go check out the nifty show while twice weekly it's an up and comer may. That's what i say we enjoy doing it. And that's why we keep doing it because we enjoy creating great content. I'm a big fan of joel calm. I like what i like is brain and we have good conversations so once upon a time we decided. Hey let's record some of these conversations and we're still compensating and we're still recording said conversations and you're still tuning in and that that ruiz shows us a lot and you're still following the very simple instructions that we provide you with at the end of each and every show and that is stay back. The bad crypto. Podcast is a production of bad crypto. Llc the content of the show the videos and the website is provided for educational informational and entertainment purposes. Only it's not intended to be does not constitute financial investment or trading advice of any kind. You shouldn't make any decisions as to finances. Investing trading or anything else based on this information without undertaking independent due diligence in consultation with the professional financial advisor. Please understand that. The trading of bitcoins and alternative crypto currencies have potential risks. Involved anyone wishing to invest in any of the currencies or tokens mentioned on this podcast. Should i seek their own independent professional financial advisor so no corn jokes right. The managed that there's another corny going on this week. We've we've we've warned that one out and we've taken the husk off that joke. Well i don't remember the last time Truthfully that i have now i did. I was at about fe. And i almost bought some corn almost got some on plate. But it just didn't look like the kind of corn and i wanted to you. Don't eat corn from a buffet normally. No i don't know it was just like it was not a full cub. It was like an eighth of a cob house when they slice of cobb and like moby really tiny. I was like this is not a full copy. I don't know that that'd be able to identify corn with which end. Let's a good thing. We did unicorn since we we're we're we're growing up now. We're eternal thirty year olds now so we don't make corn jobs.

nfc travis amoako brands nba robin young rob young robbie young joel Iva blockchain blockchain crypto motors joel comm andrew blocks michael astros Ipm Tom sean darryl hash
S1 E11 - How to Retire in Just 15 Years with Andy Parkinson

The New Convention

48:05 min | 1 year ago

S1 E11 - How to Retire in Just 15 Years with Andy Parkinson

"Welcome to the PODCAST. I'm your host Krista, Frazier Marker and this is the new convention. On spend more time WHO's on? Myself. In the. Want to travel, pass the foundries so far that is. Edges to to the summit. Fear Hey everyone. This is the new convention where you will hear from people who are living by their own rules, creating new conventions for living a more sustainable, abundant and most importantly meaningful life. Before we get started, I want to shout out to our first time listeners. Thank you for joining us today. We love expanding our community of new emerging Mavericks Living unconventionally as many of you know, can sometimes be a lonely scary path, because it's hard to be different, but if you're interested in that maverick lifestyle, you've come to the right place. You don't have to start that adventure alone. Join our community of Mavericks by following US on Facebook. Our conversations also do not have an expiration date, so feel free to start here or jump back through some of our earlier episodes to get more insights from fellow mavericks in the areas, such as finance, lifestyle and relationships, and to our loyal listeners. Welcome back. Thank you for your continued support. We wouldn't be here without you. If you like what you hear today. Make sure you share the love by sharing this episode with the people in your life in community where looking to escape the conventional for. For something more intentional. You can get access to more. Info, is wells extended versions of the show where we get into the really juicy stuff by visiting my website. KRISTA FM DOT COM and becoming a member that's Krista K.. R. I S. T. A. FM DOT COM finally I'd like to thank Shaw Wild for providing the music us at the new convention. You can get access to more of her songs and albums at wild that C. H. A. W. I l. d. e. dot com. Let's get started mavericks welcome to the episode today. Where we discussed the secrets of retiring in just fifteen years I'm joined by and EP, who retired at the ripe young age of forty two, and here's the best part Andy retired from a normal job earning atypical salary, he didn't get any handouts or invent the next big thing by incorporating the principles that Andy and I discussed today. He says it is possible for anyone to follow in his footsteps, so whether you are eighteen, looking to retire at thirty, three or thirty three and just getting started. This episode will give you the insight to create financially independent future sooner than you may have thought possible. Andy. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super excited. Talk about the subject of retiring early, but before we get into that, where are you from? Originally from the UK. On being living in Australia life for the last twelve years since two thousand nights in wet. What brought you to Australia? Actually always on a large global it projects. Leave them work in sixteen. Different countries one of those who was Australia. So when I go back to Europe after the project ended thought to myself, what also live in the world and Australia was the number one choice. That's amazing. I didn't know that you lived in sixteen countries and to and you did that all through work through your job pipe full work. Oh! That's another conversation we could have. because. That is like my dream to move to all these different countries and get to experience them through a job. That's actually paying you to do it and taking care of the visas I assume. Slough! Yeah. And so Australia was your favorite. And now you're. You've been here for twelve years. And? When did you decide that you wanted to retire? Early was the something that you always had in the back of your mind since you started working or was it something that came up at a later point. Thoughts, the Komo of my mind. I guess problem of never really known. What would've wanted to do as a career other very varied. A career history. So the back of my mind, always thoughts myself to be financially free at some point so that I can live the life. I want to live So in terms of my background does done. A started act as a chemist. PhD Chemist Than What to the conference USA. And then I did I. Tell You what globally? So we'll time at the back of my mind off been. Trying to think of another way of of of living my life. So. y'All can explain blacks from the high of Dunbar. But it, but yeah, it was always at the moment. I think since since university. And, so it took you. Would you say twenty years to get to the point where you were able to retire? So it's. Between fifteen twenty years. which fink is achievable for my sprinkle? That is so good to hear. Starting as soon as we get off this call. Of what influences you have that? Put this idea in your head that you wanted to be financially free and that it was possible to do so in a shorter amount of time, the first car read on the topic, which really had a big impact on me. was cooled. Rich pulled up. I've read that to love Ya. Good book it doesn't get black. Basically teaches you in life. You know the difference between. The haves and the have notes yet. The people they gender relate by liabilities rather assets yet. had a big impact, so man I really started to look at spending. PATTERNS had time. Since then, actually read nearly ninety books on. The stock. Market Financing General solve learned a lot as I've gone along the show, but that was one of the first books I. Read really put me down this path on. Now that's amazing. When we get towards the end of the podcast I'll ask you what your top books are that you recommend. Did you have any beliefs around money or values about money that you think really helped you be successful. I, think the biggest thing is I'm not a toll materialistic. Certainly does Stein. I just think people. Would look at the likes of after Pires Company. WHY DOES NOT EXIST? People want instant gratification than it's gotten by the next pod. Whatever it is, they won't see instantly. People I think are not prepared to save money what they want. And, there's a sign that if you Mike, you'll money work, you'll always be working for money. Solve always been conscious of spending money a high literally high spending money. That would help. have any challenges, so that would make it a lot easier hating spending money, but did you have any other challenges around money that came up as you were going down this path of saving investing and knowing that you had this goal. I guess the biggest challenge. Some actually everything I'm talking about today. is is described in this new online movement called the Fire Movement IRA which. It's been around since the early twenty tens and describes. White stands for financially independent early. Amazing! the many many issues on canceled along the way of the sleigh. So one of the things this movement says you should do is. Obviously maximize your sidings. The items decided. Let's site ten twenty percent of your income every single year. An invest that money in the stock market on then then watch compounding compound interest through the rest voyeur. Some obviously. The last week spent a perfect example. Corona virus huge volatility in stock markets. Everyone's lost ten fifteen percent of investment in a week yet. So that's that's the one thing led to live with obviously the jeff say. Twelve years ago was huge as well. For that outside is the hardest thing back is. Doing this falling this process. How do you manage that with your own mindset? Not freaking out when when certain situations like that happen. Do. The most important thing I've learned along this journey actually is is what's most known as asset allocation so. What that simply means is. So if you went to see a financial advisor. One of the first things I would ask you. What's your risk? Tolerance have comfortable argue. Investing in a risky asset, I in the stock market, so one of the first things you need to work on your head is a of my. Hundred. Money Hat will send you. That dog wants to invest in stocks. So. All right so I I'm quite cautious. Person Very cautious, so I made the decision. Okay, I'm GONNA invest fifty percent of mock pots of money in the stock market. Because I've always studied history as well. the another JFK say or corona virus, or some event is ran the cool, and could what forty fifty percent off your money, ACI yet, so that enables me to sleep at night. Knowing not fully invested in the thing that's paying our Thomas. And I love what you said because I think that's so true. Some people have a higher tolerance for risk and others don't more cautious. I'm one of I can totally relate to you I'm a much more cautious person, and so finding that balance of what works for you and what you're willing that risk level. You're willing to settle with I. Think is really important when people decide what they're going to invest what they're gonNA invest in. For Mark The mind the mind victor for growing your wealth. You have to understand the different asset classes. You need to decide up front before you invest in the Stock Market Bolt percentage of your net worth or investable money. You wants to invest in stocks. Because you wouldn't unless you a Warren Buffett, you wouldn't put one hundred percent of your money into the stock market because it's extremely risky volatile. So. There's a chance that if you any investing for few years when you come to liquidate that investment, you've got half what you put in there. Ron, so you need to be aware. The investing in stocks is you should say is a minimum five year. Investment Timeframe. sloughing studied said if you invest in stocks a year, it's up equivalent of a toy Coin Toss. Gone. Baguettes yet whether you're going to get the same amount that you put back in twelve months. That you invested, but if you roll it out to a ten year period, it's up to something out nonstop. Since the time you'll get more money back after her tenure bowling period. Solan awful lot about stock markets along the way. Have you had any challenges that have come up around people asking you to go out or do things travel that you've had to say no to? Because you knew that you had a certain amount that you wanted to put aside, or has that not been an issue? Not Not really i. mean read a few of the blocks of the fire movement, and a lot of people side the biggest challenge. She's not really money related. It stand to lack of identity yet, so if you think about to every time you meet someone. The first thing people generally ask you on what you do for work. For question. Sir For few as also saying well employed. Because I didn't really have the confidence to cy while investing in stocks. But I. Think is the as of gone on thought well, coyote probably do a little bit about what I'm doing. Now I should be more confident and. And start to admit when last me now do sideline best in stock market saw. Yeah or even when people say what you do just saying, I'm retired like everywhere. When I heard that I was like you're my new hero. Philip guilty admitting the. YOUNG GUYS! Where does that come from? You get some funny looks. Don't you think you people assume you've out a big handle or on at night? You've inherited something wrong. Yeah, yeah, and what about is there any loneliness being retired when? I don't know what your friend group and social group is like and if they have retired to, but you know people are going to work in your. You have the freedom to do whatever you want day-to-day basis. Yeah. It's definitely an issue. Monday to Friday see many people in the DIAC slave bones at work of is still working. So. I'm cost sociable person I do miss social interaction in the wake the show. I guess I'm. Lucky enough of where I live in Australia of the Bait on my doorstep but I'm also a huge raider. Falkland and Keep Myself. Busy Man Company as well, yeah. Yeah are you a surfer's well? Yes! See, at that would probably be any surfer's dream to just have the freedom to go out whenever the waves are perfect. That's amazing I I know that that is something. When I did some consulting for some also had a very flexible schedule and sometimes I would work on the weekends. And it was always hard because the people that I socialize with were at work when I wasn't vice versa. So. It was having to create new ways to have fun that didn't necessarily involve. Always having to have my social group around, so I can relate to that a little bit. Not from the full retirement standpoint though. So. What would you say that have been your biggest learnings along this journey of retirement so? Going back to my original question when you were in university. Did you have a number in your head? Like I want to retire at forty two for example? Did you. Did you have it that specific? I came from another way so. The fine movement to mention them again. They have something cool to full percent role okay. So. I was doing listen parallel with aren't realizing that there was a whole group happened blogging about this stuff on any been doing it for the last ten years, but. So the why I looked at it was the first step was to calculate my annual. Expenditure cost of living. Okay. So. Let's assume that fifty thousand dollars. Australian dollars. So then I thought what I've came. What level of assets do I need to invest to Pi Fifty thousand a year? And, then I'll look for example. The Australian Stock Exchange top two hundred companies. The average yield or dividend payment is somewhere around five cents, okay. Then then you will, but you need. A million dollars invested to give you a fifty thousand dollars a year. Ignoring taxes yet. Soya always had. You know some of money in mind rather than an age and tools accumulating. Amount of wealth. So for you. The focus was I want to be financially free, and this is the best way I know how, but you don't necessarily have that I, want to be financially free by X. Age. It just happened news just as young as possible as young as possible. That's fantastic. Because I think I do think a lot of people myself included you know. Put this number in their head. Like God love to retire at forty, but then there's this overwhelming this kind of like well. That's not possible that pops up and then you don't even try so I. Love The way that you've done at where you've worked out the math. What do I need to live off of? What do I need to invest and then just doing the steps everyday that you need to do until you reach that goal? I think the problem is people I mean. I'm just mentioned a million dollars. People overwhelmed when you sail. You need a million dollars to retire. K. Yet like. How will I ever get that? Exactly? I would encourage everyone to jump online and just look at a compound interest calculator. I'm punching. Assume. That can save ten percent of their salary a year. which I think he's achievable. everyone you know punching the ten percent figure. Timeframe twenty years. And see what the number you end up with. You'd be surprised then if you assume a right of return of. Between five and ten percent, which is the long run average of stock markets near a ten percent in the case of America. you'll. You'll soon very soon accumulate the money that you need. Yeah, you make it sound so easy. I can actually feel it as we're talking. It could feel it forming in my mind that it feels possible and I loved that. Because I've never thought about it from that standpoint. Thank you for sharing that, so did you have to? Did you choose to do anything around lowering your expenses such as living in a different way outside from just not spending on material things that helped you accelerate the process so that you can invest more in save more. Absolutely again the fire movement that that's. That's the recommend living an extremely frugal life. I'm cutting out all unnecessary costs. I mean may for example if I'm. Donated loads, but if I do. I wouldn't Bob Botula Walsum environmentally the worst thing you can do. And if you do the maths, Bought a bottle of water every day with lunch. What is that three dollars a die yet? A thousand bucks a year enough. One percent. Of the average Australian salary going on just something, he didn't need to buy so. If you apply that logic. I think to all areas of your life and expenditure. You can soon set aside the minimum ten ten twenty percent that you need in savings. Over fifteen twenty year period. Yeah. No, that's totally true, and some of the things that my husband and I talk about all the time. Are you know the biggest expense you have is rent? If you don't own a home and if you do own a home, it's mortgage you know. Hopefully that becomes an asset, but who knows depending on how much? You spend on your home, but. I know that we've looked at things like living in a tiny house. We just went to a tiny house convention today. to explore that option I. Don't think it's really going to be what we want. There's too many housing regulations that to make that a really good solution at this point, but even how sharing. Do we really need to live in our own apartment right now we live. In, the northern beaches, which we absolutely love, and it would be really hard to move out of this area, but there's also very. Areas that are very much cheaper to live in so always thinking about what expenses do you have in what ways you can lower? Those I think is. Is something that you can get really creative on again to the point where you're talking about what your level risk almost. What's your level of what you're willing to give up? I don't even want to say it that way because it makes it sound. Too Scary. Yeah, I think the housing ones interesting. If you look at Europe. A lot of people rent for their entire logs. People say well renting's dead money will. If, I buy a highest in Sydney on to borrow million dollars to do it. The Fox and interest on spending fifty thousand dollars a year while I'm giving it to the bank, the landlord yet I've always thought about. Properties not necessarily doesn't necessarily make the money that people think. When you deductible the costs. Yeah. No I didn't even think about it that way because rents. You're probably looking at half that that you would be rents. And, so you would have to I guess your house would have to. increase in value and you'd have to sell it at some point. And be able to make more than you paid an interest to make it worth it. Correct. Recent study actually proved the. If few do sipe sufficient money on your renter, and you invest that money in the stock market. You will actually end up with more money than Haji bought a house. That's. and. That's very interesting. Because in the Sydney market, people are just going crazy. I mean we. We wanted we kind of we WanNa Buy Bandwagon because we're sick of throwing our money away at rents. And we we went to try and buy these ridiculously tiny units because it's all we could afford. and. They would go for like one hundred thousand more. than. They were listed for and I'm sure they do that a little bit to get more people in the door, but. It's just crazy. How much people are willing to pay for property? And when you put it like that it, it does make me question. Will you get the value back out of it? Especially because it's not only you know your mortgage payment, you have to pay the. And the council fees and the taxes. Things that you don't necessarily have to pay when you're renting. Correct I mean always been very bearish on Australian property. I think there's a lot of fireworks. I fear of missing out. Yes, the same applause with the stock market, you can fire Mon. You have longer favor of not guessing out. At that one. This week's been a good example with corona virus. Really taking hold. I think properties very similar to stocks in that regard people. People generally by when prices are high, and so when process allow. which is obviously the wrong things today, yeah. Aside from property. Are there other things that you see that? Maybe people aren't making the right. Decisions are on when it comes to spending money. Back to the rich Paul Discussion. You, if you, if you debt to buy a depreciating asset, something in on like a cau-. It's probably one of the worst things you can do site. Save up and buy at raw instead of paying huge fines and costs. For declining set. The biggest single thing. In this current lower for longer sign, interest rates are going to be low for a long period of time. I guess my theory is a bit upended the the cost of capital. A cost money at the moment is negligible. Yes, Oh, if you need a car in the finance, zero will close to than might as well just. Doesn't really hurt. You're not. This is the challenge. The biggest challenge. The world vices all believe at the moment is low interest rates. I'm not sure central banks know what they're doing at the moment on. It's pushed up. Asset prices, houses on stocks. Falsely! Correct Yep, and that's kind of what was happening back in two thousand eight. Wasn't it in the United, states where people were basically. Exactly. And I keep wondering because you keep hearing. That's going to happen to Australia. And I. Keep wondering if it's going to happen, but there's so many people just like in the states back in two thousand eight. That are like not I'll never go down. So, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next even two years. Off completely agree if you look at Australian. Private individuals deaths housing debt is the UP. There was the highest in the world virtually. Because of Isis. Could Sydney. The average. Price to people's earnings on a hacksaw thinking, surround height or Tunsil ten even. Think the GMC America due to a housing bubble thing when they only go to five or six times earnings. Oh my Gosh! There's definitely a lot of mortgage debt in this country. With the unknown with the stock market, and the huge amount of debt, especially in Australia. With the fire movement, would they be saying still take ten percent and put it into stocks. Is that just something that you decide I'm going to do that? I'm going to take ten percent and put it into stocks, because I'm not in it for the short term I'm in it for the long term. Hit the night on the head so. If you a genuine long-term investor. Now is potentially a very good time to be doing what I'm doing. I'm buying stocks. so few days something called dollar cost averaging, which is basically buying a little bit of stocks each month. So you're getting you get in the swings up on dime, so you average purchase price. Do that once a month for me salary. An you do that for twenty years, you can actually will look back on the epidemic and will pass so narrow is probably a good time. If you take a long-term, always unto the actually investing. And I. do think that's something that. You know when I think about what a new convention should be around. This whole topic is. People are so short term nowadays. You know we're looking for short term gratification. I think that's why we're in the trouble that we're in because you know for example I. Want that and I want it now. I'll just finance it. Or maybe I'll buy it versus taking out money and putting into something that's going to give me more long-term benefit because I want to short-term pleasure. Is Educating. The generation coming up on, it's not necessarily about the short term, but looking at examples like you. It doesn't have to be long term as in sixty five before you benefit from that either. I've always stole the one thing we should be teaching. Kids at school is is bicyc- fine on knit. Personal, finance, all the. Mortgage wrightson investing, and. I'm sure will read some of Warren. Buffett's workable. That sink of it more like to think. Hang on sounds amazing, yeah! Well hopefully that will start to change and I'm actually really surprised that it hasn't at this point. Given the very difficult times that we've gone through and. I don't really know why why that has come a priority. Do you have any thoughts around that or theories? Not really but I would say it's is creating a problem because if you look they ratio of young people to all people as well in the. able to retard paypal. It's actually challenging. No in a good Wyatt so. In generations time will be even less tax payers to pay for the ballooning in the the it population so. WHO's GonNa pay for that Yeoman's the pension liabilities will be huge unless we encourage people to. They would on day against invest. To that point I mean this fire movement that you've mentioned sounds like a really great resource where people can learn more about how to properly save invest. Are there other resources out there that you think people should definitely read or research or get in contact with that can help? Those are struggling with saving properly or with investing learning the basics of that. Let's say the industry is changing. A fair bit is a couple of things cy The some good office at the Tony. Robbins off recently read one of his books unshakable. That discusses a lot of practice very good book. but auto cy in from an investment points of view as the so-called. Robo advice now so. Algorithms doing this work for you. Sell this companies in Australia during on globally. Way You. I report to be salary every month on his automatically invested. In a group of assets on automatically rebalanced, and all of that is taken care for you in the background. I mean on on very hands on with the price of because passionate bats. But you can be as times offers. You won't so think now to grow your pulse. And I think that's really good for people to hear especially for myself. I've always wanted to be passionate about stocks and investing, but I'm just not. Not I mean passionate from the standpoint I know how valuable it is, but when I sit down to read a book about stocks I fall asleep. At you know I wish it was different so knowing that there's other options out there so that I don't just have to say well I'm not interested, so I'm not gonNA. Do it and end up being you know the typical number that retires at sixty seven. Knowing that you don't have to necessarily be like yourself where you research it and read about all the time. Well, that's beneficial. There's there's other options for those of those of you that are like me. and. You can't get through a stock book. Yeah. It can be difficult. She wanted to generally stocks the simpler the better. To mention Warren Buffett again, he. One thing he recommends for the general population is an think he. He wants to do this with his with his State when he passes away Put on percents of it. into an S. and P. Five Hundred Index Fund, which is the top five hundred companies in America in one purchase Monte sent in that Neil the ten percent in U. S. Treasuries, which is government debt. On, just leave it there and if you do that, history shows that you'll make non attempts cents a year on your money. Yeah, we could be simpler over a period of time. You won't not might not necessarily make that especially now in the next two years, but if you left it over a period of ten years, that would be your after rushed. Correct is the average. If you look at it over one hundred year period for the hard years, okay. There's obviously volatility along yet, yeah? And what are your thoughts on? Investing in the stock market versus investing in your super or putting money into your super account for those of you that aren't from Australia. That's a four 401k or retirement accounts. I don't know if they call it in the UK. I'm things just a pension, no intention. Always been a bit wary of pensions. Just, because. If, you look at what they're doing. The keep raising the pension age so. They're going to do that with. Personal pensions as well as the state pension never naira always taken the view I draw the manage. Access instant access to my money. Should I made it? Especially because you did retire. Way Way before you would be able to withdraw that money without penalty. So that makes complete sense, the money that you took an invested. Was that purely? You were working in the different jobs that you mentioned you got your after tax money. And then you took that money and you invested at so there was no pre tax or tax breaks in this process. It was purely taking the income investing and saving it. Correct. Wow. Just, basically maximize the amount or saved. I was lucky for a number of years, said because I did work globally on expenses. That really really helped crisis the end because they probably paid for your combination and food and three or four years of the fifteen years I work. I'll have very low expenses. So I was just very careful. Latin invested. So. What are your plans? Now that you're retired? Do you have any grand plans that you want to look into or areas? You want to explore more silent. The moment raiding of the more I think that you. Get into a topic. The more you realize you need to learn. I've already read. Non Non folks now on the stock market, and the more I read, the more I realize I don't know so I'm constantly rating Aside from that experiences in travel is my mind much of ice and I love to travel. So. I did a good trip immediately after finishing work. Where did you go? South America Oh nice. I've that's been on my bucket list forever. Did you go to Peru? I did yes. Did you do the hike. Saying plate with altitude sickness. Without or with with no, no. That I because I used to back a lot growing up my dad. He's a mountain man and he. He doesn't like being around people so all. Our holidays were going backpacking in the most remote remote mountain locations. You could possibly think of. Human being my dad's like, oh, my gosh, it's so crowded here so i. know altitude sickness because. We'd go up. These big mountain faces in in the mornings as a kid, I'd get up and I would run around and just get so sick like wake up and just throwing up all over the place and. It's awful feeling. So how did you? How did you manage to get through it? the the guides. I feel particular walk. That was so worried about me They put me on antibiotics, but at least. Listening to my lungs every couple of hours. Just just to May keep an army really. It wasn't a fitness thing. Altitude sickness affects different papal does. It does yeah. Crazy especially when you're coming from Australia where you're at sea level. Because travel and this is one of the things that I struggle with personally a lot when it comes to finances, is I do a lot of my money into travel because I also love to travel. How do you travel in a specific way to maximize your experience and reduce your cost? Are you just? Is that just something that you really care about and because you're not investing in? Water bottles at lunch and other things that you just have extra money to go to travel on deafening mindful. Accommodation costs thing. That's the big thing, isn't it? When you travel myself America trip. Probably it presented. It was in hostels. And Cheaper Commission. I'll still had an amazing Thomas still so I needed to say. Yeah. When you're trying to live off your investments. I'm consciously aware of assessments of Monday shaven in payments from market, so I don't want to say that and stop. In late the principal. Some more I'm still still budgeting effectively. Eva Nam living off the income. And how many tools that you use for budgeting or are? Have you gotten so good at it that you know? Excel spreadsheet. Good, old fashioned excel. As we are wrapping up, what would you recommend to somebody? Let's just go with my age because I have the benefit of talking to you. So I'm in my early thirties. If I wanted to. Let's say I'm putting the goal that I want to retire in ten years which that is Michael, I've decided well. Maybe I won't do the tenure thing I'll have to do what you just taught us with picking a certain amount and calculating the interest. But what would your top tips be for me to start this process? From the the saving to investing in and how I go about managing my money. Were your annual expenditure. Cat you'll after tax salary then workout. Ten twenty percent whatever it is that you can invest and do every single month. For the next ten years, and do you take into account inflation when you're calculating? Your cost of living lots of very good question I don't factor into my own calculations because. I think as long as join vested in stocks. What people a lot of people don't think about actually is if you're living off dividend income from stocks generally. They go up every year anyway. In line with or exceeding inflation so I think as long as you're in. You've got some of your money in property stocks and you're actually going to Beijing in anyway. Thank you so much? I literally am going to get off of this podcast and Gary, spreadsheet and I'm GonNa go find a calculator online and starts lugging all of this in before we go, I just want to go into the lightning rounds so I'm GonNa. Ask you three rapid fire questions. And then for those of you, that want to connect with Andy. Feel free to reach out to me. And I can get you in touch you mentioned is at the fire movement dot. com is the website that you referred to. Now it's just an acronym. Fire financially independent retire early. Many many people blogging about okay, so it's not one set, yeah. Okay. Yeah you Google Wikipedia of go page on as well by sleep explains it okay, perfect, so anyone who wants to learn more kin google the fire. Financial Movement will call it. So anti what is the bravest thing you've ever done? Probably Swimming Antarctica. You've done that. Like in the freezing, cold water. Yeah, it was less than zero or zero and. Temperature was modest, thirty five I. think my did it. God without like an activity where they said. Hey. If you WANNA go, first swim, you can, or did you just choose to randomly do that? They advised us not to. The doctor on more with the distributors. My God and you still did. That is very brave. Pretty horrible. 'cause I've I've jumped in cold water before where I had a hard time breathing and moving. You know so. It's like Oh. My Gosh I'm going to drown 'cause. I feel frozen immediately so too, but not at any. How did you just not freeze and just sink to the bottom? It was very quick. audit twenty meters I think swimming. Wow, that's impressive. Presence! Well, then, my second question might be the same answer. What is the craziest thing you've ever done? So yes. I on skiing Ashley often some things skiing. Are you an avid skier all of game? In a straight line and a chuck, think of Skater hundred hundred eleven kilometers Irish record. God, how do you with someone there with a speed gun? GPS Watch. A great scarier. Wow. That's insane. I used to snowboard and. Anytime I got up to speed. That was too fast for me to control I panicked. Because if you go over what little bump, it's brutally painful to take that crash into this, but you. You obviously came out of it perfectly fine. And then my final question. What would you have a new convention around? This topic of retirements think we alluded to earlier. believes we should be teaching this stuff of schools. Because this is an important case. In stock markets it's time in the market, not timing the market. So it's again. It comes back to. If you leave your money that long enough compound compounding does the work for you. So if we're encouraging kids. To Stop. I mean I wish I. Knew what I knew now now was. School age rather than just doing university if you add another ten years to the process. Viewed people are going to be retiring at thirty dollars. Sought believe we should be teaching this stuff on. It's going to help out with. government deficit says while I imagine at some point. We'll thank you so much for joining me, I learned so much I'm sure our listeners did is well. I can't thank you enough for helping me to retire in the next ten to fifteen years because that's my new goal. The, thank you before we end today. I like to leave all our listeners with a challenge to incorporate the amazing things you heard about today. Now before you do anything else, hop over to my website where you'll find a link to a financial calculator, enter your salary and expenditures and see how long it'll take you to reach retirement. Start Saving and investing today and I will see you on the beach in early retirement. That's our show today. If you want to learn more hop over to KRISTA FM DOT COM to get access to the extended episode as well as some of the great resources mentioned in our conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, so you never miss an episode. If you or someone you know, is living by their own rules and has a great story to tell contact me at the new convention at Krista FM DOT com remember to live by values. Live your life. We'll catch you next time. Maverick's A. WHO's! Now. Want to travel. Pass the foundries, so fathered is. Just the to the some. With mafi yeah. Want you to see. Divert Rainbow does by the. Decided or Whoever? Green. The Earth on Rainbow Seduced by God of the sea decided I. Go my own way. Those were until I was. Back Queen Wild Creature. Leader of a band. In kind of music that sue the saw. I'm just a young woman who is not. Traffic. To The sky. S- my fingers, hoping piece binds me before. I. and.

Australia America. Andy Europe UK Warren Buffett Sydney C. H. A. W. I Shaw Wild Thomas Facebook KRISTA FM Slough Dunbar USA. US Krista Krista K
Afterpay: The Millennial's Answer to Buy Now, Pay Later

Raising the Bar with Alli and Michael

41:27 min | 1 year ago

Afterpay: The Millennial's Answer to Buy Now, Pay Later

"I know Michael Landau and this is raising the bar a podcast for entrepreneurs by entrepreneurs learn how today's best new businesses got their start now you can apply lessons learned to your own the following podcast is a deer media production hi I'm Elliot prominent in the numbers because millennials haven't been spending a novel retail but the options for consumers to date have been I'm going to take out a line of credit which and customers never pay interest so you know for them they're paying the same price as the dress now are they using most of your customers using a debit card and so that's they all use debit cards and so there's been this evolution that no one really speaks about you know mainly because it hasn't been okay with Nick Molnar who is the founder of after pay and he's not one of my best friends not yet anyways usually we have all it'll come founder between obviously you probably know the competition those guys and what you're doing yeah it's really interesting so for the past ten fifteen years the option means that they didn't engage in these traditional credit in like services so you know we build off to pay to be the opposite of that there's no credit check there's no social security entry let check that's very traditional and so you know my background is from retail I grew up when the two thousand and eight financial crisis hit turned eighteen and it was like Dunston money have what ended up happening was they moved this millennial customer who ultimately older my friends started spending money differently Oh yeah absolutely so essentially at its most simple form after pile ask someone who's buying a hundred dollar dress instead of spending one hundred dollars to pay full payments at twenty visa mastercard on it yeah and that's the that's actually the benefit of often pay so we give people the payment flexibility but they can spend their own upfront so from their perspective it's exactly what they used to wear the dress on the weekend and retailers are happy because they're offering that flexibility so I feel like I've I five dollars every two weeks way pay the retailer the next day and then we take all the risks so it's our responsibility to recover money but the customer still get surprised all in Australia which is where you're from I've WANNA try to describe it but I wanna hear you describe it because it's such a cool concept in your here to bring it to the United States I take it and it's now really really prominent because millennials and you know I mean five years will be half full disposal income in the US will be from the millennial cohort so these trends he does have baby a new baby but he does have baby like Michael so this podcast could very well end up being about their babies and how they're living their life no that's not what it's about after phase actually really seen things like this before because I shop a lot she has a child from yeah and I notice on a and I do so much shopping online now and I always noticed there's things and any that Michael I didn't really know much about but are very fascinated by so welcome neck we can't wait to hear your story thank you thank you very much for having me so after pays a big deal and forgive my ignorance here because it's been I'm not a millennial not if you have a debit card you can only spend what you have in your you can't you can't it's not also credit card even though it has I don't really remember the names of the companies that make p. three payments on it and I'm like that's a really great for someone who can't afford to buy two hundred dollar dress and needs to pay it out so what's the difference any so for them their budgeting neither buying a Friday because I might get paid on Thursday and so from their perspective it's how they spend more responsibly in how do they spend in you cannot keep shopping in the event the light and the example that I always gave is like if I got courts fading and someone took away my net flicks account I'd be devastated fine with the paycheck or however they liked to spend but you know the coolest thing about off to payers unlike traditional line of credit when someone goes light easy not easy but you've had a lotta successor thousands and thousands of merges on your platform now taking a step back you come up with this idea yeah you're seeing this opportunity coming through and eighty five cents Al customers use a debit card not a credit card two out of three people in the US aged eight thirty do not actually own a credit they make which is how revolving lines which means it's completely misaligned with the customer which is exactly why millennials stop using it right so with us we say to them you know a credit industry prophets poem from misbehavior good behavioral they make money when you don't pay back and they're incentivized for you to stay for as long as possible because the lonelier outstanding is that different than the ones that I'm seeing already in the US are those guys you know tagging on an interest for someone who's using that some do some don't Out of necessity we went public in fossil would three and a half years since we went public we now have a mock cap of nine billion dollars we have thirty from the very big something she does not do that again might hurt speaking with an Australian accent though their accounts actually disabled so they concave shopping in the event that their light fair account like their credit card debt thereafter bake so when you think about the credit industry out team has just been unbelievable and there's not there's no consumer facing tech companies in Australia that are Ustralian they're all Americans a young young twenty nine well but I've been really lucky I've been surrounded by the most incredible people and every step of the way we do there's there's different variations in the market traditionally it is these you know finance products trying to come into the space now I imagine it pretty the cost of penalty for the cost of my Netflix for one month is a lot cheaper than spending too but I do not want to lose my Netflix our customers past 'cause they love after pay blastoff thought coming out of university to get a job so I went and worked at one of the venture capital funds in Australia and actually it was the guy running the fund that was like you have to be on I got to know each other he was running a very large public investment fund and I was like Hey I've got this idea and we started off to pay together I mean we only allies and turn it into you said you had a partner but how did you start well coming out of university I had this jewelry business and I was making a really really good amount of money I'm trying to find the best talent finding the best talent around and we're all on this in this for the first time together we have to go back here so you weird we like we girls coming into your room but the first round of money a little bit over four years ago we then took the company public on the Australian Stock Exchange nine months later there's no real private money in Australia we have six and a half thousand retailers just in the US market and then we went live in the UK about three months ago and because actually growing faster than the US even though the markets folk consumers have been I'm going to take out a loan to buy this dress and might be zero percents. APR But you still need to give your social security number they still do Aaron splice literally approached me one day and he was like I see a light on every night and then you take parcels the post office what do you do and he didn't think I was jewelry right and entrepreneurs in a lot of the questions that we have and it's so daunting to start a business alley and obviously done it a few times and you've done it but you have this idea you recognize it how did you five thousand rate house and five million consumers we only went live in the US a little bit of a twelve months ago with the urban outfitters group we're already doing over a billion dollars a volume in the US the size so running from like college parcells yes I'm going to start using that instead of packages to US starting this companies you must be you throw me off my background's from retail my family was in jewelry I saw the most jewelry on Ebay in Australia out of my bedroom at university it sounds I just remembered something my was that one time that one girl came over we digress my neighbor you want the security of pay but nate you'll be Outta do this gun I'll give you the security anytime you want to come back comeback he knew I wasn't gonNA come back but he gave me the very difficult to determine someone's risk profile so I said to him have this idea of spending money differently this is going to really work but actually it went from glossed over a lot there he's had this idea turned into it nine billion dollars one of the recurring themes that we talk about on this show 'cause we talked lots of and we have this goal of trying to get to ten ten the orders a day and then we're going to raise some money and so these guys came live and like second opener like you have to go into why you working for me and he said to get me to do it he said I'll hold your job for why did he say that what what was it about you husband wife actually moved to La they're rolling it out here and I knew that I will big but I didn't WanNA screw it up so I didn't tell Anthony Table so we went you know what we get retail you know we get the capital markets we know how to scale this but wait a tech partner who can truly build it and to have this the confidence to move and then when speaking to Anthony my co-founder about after pay the big problem we were trying to solve is industry there's no social security number so it's tells turning us off and I was like no no it's okay like we'll come back from this and then I received this inbound inquiry from a foss fashion company co Princess polly the comfortable with that risk and you said there's no socio where you just accepting everyone or not and this is the scariest thing in the coolest thing about the business was that you know the average loss right on her killing it and so they turned us off and Anthony comes to me and he's like this is it's all over the finish where we've done like I relate to anthony I ever how did you turn this thing into a reality do you have tech background or do you have a finance background or Yes oh this all striving too off the company we ended up going public and then about six months after we went public they were also public we acquired we merged with them and we all joined together off but we don't in approving all declining in order that far more powerful than a traditional credit check so things like the and how to build it he threw his fund earned a company called touch coal touch called with guaranteeing the second largest telco against fraud and chargebacks just like we needed to pay prince says Paulie so then we went out to raise money and let me stop you right there because I'm curious and I'm sure our listeners are how do you see on the size of the tank cannot so it's all about determining someone's propensity to pay you back with and also their willingness to pay like they don't want to take advantage of the system diversified and this is gonna work so we went into this with everyone saying this work and then we could determine that there are huge amounts of undercurrents when your any Australia now ninety seven percent of transactions each month from repeat customers and they can only repeat customers if they're not like what is your I have live we did three hundred orders and then we're like crap because him and I were funding it actually paying Princess Paulie out of pocket wow world's new economy is completely true like you think about the biggest companies in the world generally prophet from bad behavior not good behavior and and so we're like okay we're really in the hall here like we need we need money and then like not because we were spending any because it was just anthony and on we weren't getting paid a product that you buy fuel brought buying size the attain pair of shoes you probably less risky than someone who's buying a size nine parachutes because the size nine can be sold tomorrow get them on board and also the first one was my jewelry business I said that was hard that was a really hard sale but then the first external one it's a business actually ended up with a small limit the more you pass back the more flexibility will give you pass back we're going to give you less flexibility and this whole notion of trust and if being the assessing huge amount of time a volume Australia and we said we believe that they'll be out a build this for us so we actually have half the company on day one so now loss rates are the lowest in industry and the system is gets better over time because there's no better determinative someone's risk profile it's called and then disley everything played out in the white did now I'm so curious about your very first merchant client you do I'm sure you remember how did you how did you that Kabul just three or four percent and we said to Alpine we're only gonNA charge a small commission above your credit card processing right so everyone in the credit joining us off that had a really big Valentine's Day tried period and out tech wasn't ready and we went live we started like like Y- tech podcast not declining sales cab when I was in New York because it's like I don't usually have cash on me and it's such a pain to pay its I'm and I when I have taken cavs in New York I get out and forget to pay because we're so conditioned my first biggest jobs yahoos running Yahoo shopping at a team that started it from nothing we had thousands and thousands of merchants on this platform and I wish I would have had this idea I mean it's brilliant it's really it was a different time but it's like wow I would have used it yeah for sure it was funny cod industry like write us off that like will the unit economics here are not gonNa work well no they are because you copy light when you're shopping like the the people who so is is there a online mall you that all your merchants her or or if I just happened to go to princess polly is that a payment option so you wanNA whiteboards Michelle could see why goes phase like okay but I just want to get a complete picture of how this works the payment methods at checkout generally within twenty four hours of going live on a ray tyler in the US will process ten to thirty percent of their transactions in Australia him say that every day I'd come into the office and every day when he walked in he'd say how much did you yesterday he was watching all over and then he was like because it's a conduit between all these industries now the coming together where if you give an experience which is that good Alstom's reacted the friend that you will pay back is how customers feel about us and not to change the subject but you brought up Uber and I was just in New York City and I was like I didn't take one that was that was and then do you like that felt really good technology enabled me to do this and that notion of after pay being I have to tell you I am having like mind blowing right now because I can tell something's happening it's like I haven't thought about this forever but in a previous life I was at Yahoo and Uber now I mean it's just it's it's such an interesting comparison because yeah it's just so much more convenient and that's how you guys are great yeah so that's one understand this anonymous it's proprietary information but what percentage of people don't know is it meaningful number is a little bit of one percent pass back more like thirty to fifty percent in Australia we're now the second largest traffic driver behind Google to most of our retail partners cosmo's actually come to ask to decide what they want to buy both ways so so on the product page under the process of one hundred dollars or four payments to twenty five dollars off so it's on the retailer's site within presented alongside checkout when I landed in the in the US market. I met an amazing lady called Melissa Davis Melissa in a past life was the CEO of shop style massive fan of you the ones who revolving in light on the credit cup books average order values one hundred fifty dollars and we are going to have lots of like hundreds of thousands of consumers buying from this and it'll be the problem with I wonder if you guys have this too I really love apple pay because I because I do shop a lot on-line and the fact that I don't have to enter in my information I press apple pay then you click the side ising brand but this was your was your creation so when you're building a brand and you'll building up with a network of other brands how do you stand for something lock that react to the coolest brands in the world and payments tonight is just saying this commodity solution just a brand on yet funny you say that about loving how you pay maybe you know the answer because you're an expert in this space but do you know what it is when you get that random I never signed up for this but it's like I think it's rabble or something I have I love that there's apple pay so it is the payment industry now all of a sudden becoming sexy becoming sexy and so we've built an amazing brand that customers love because we're so Seattle with coolest brands and then that shop directory notion starts kicks off and so we were very distinct about our tactics our strategy where we first went live with with urban thrown free people we went live with revolve we then carly when you first used it was like doing that thing that as a child you wouldn't toll to never do get in a car with a Stranger and eight that candy namic that's how your customers use it they'll come up to your platform to starve their shopping experience versus like if you're on anthropology dot com and you're going to pay it will after Fedex 'cause I mean those I mean those girls are so hard core and they're so like a want the new beauty thing all the time but this is how you guys are building on your phone or done do you guys have that capability to or like once you click on after pay it knows all your shit and send it to you don't have to do anything else it is in the US last month we sent five million leads to Al at retail partners so all that branding and how you work with your partners is is cool when you say you sent leads is that may come law. Jeffrey Star came live like all the really cool brands now we could have started doing dentistry but that wouldn't have been cool or sexy you had no because they love shopping with us so much they can go to like your site beds redirected to the stores and I saw that you're doing made well now and some really big retailers pops up and gives you a code your shopping online and it has your information stored in the merchant we'll send you a code on a text in users enter that it just like POPs up some of the students papa as an option when you get when you pay it will do both of those things we look at ourselves as a platform to the world's Most Valuable Consumer Bang the millennial and partner with two hundred people when we would just anthony and I you know the first month was two of us we have public with nine people so I like we could lane on Zeh customer and so how we partner with brands you know date blade to establish the right marketing campaigns go to market together is you know all of Alexander's sure all right let's do we are back in the CD that because they can provide such a better experience across the network they're doing a very good job I wonder if I can be on the platform it should be I mean we have a huge online true not to be like not to be competitors here but like I love that like apple pay you can just put in to enter in all my address and Shit a shaw product Australia you cannot pay an airline ticket you can go to the dentist and you'd like Sephora an old time those coming shortly the payback before and then once they don't pay you back once or they just know we just out from the system is built on trust so we say to our customers we trust you we're going to start you're had to look she's GonNa be embarrassed by that as per hour but no one says I love how I paid for that from Vermeil APP or website our customers will come to awesome they'll go on to buy some sunglasses and then they'll end up on sunglass huddle right so is that the way that's The Times of the shopping platforms have their own ways of speeding up so shopper fighters it really well as well can shop five so you might not realize that you're on the shop by platform but so you don't strike me as a guy who scares easy but you've got to be a little scared of Amazon Amazon doesn't really assist that's funny I've landed here and I've learned about Amazon I'm scared of a Lotta things that I'm not my wife just keeps saying just look down provide a great experience for this consumer who's spending money distinctly differently to any other generation that's previously Bain and so you know what all of these cool instagram brands so it's definitely part of that part of that strategy but I do have a handful of stores I don't know if you know reformation which I think now from instagram it takes me to the page although I do I will say in Ceram you're listening I I do end up going off instagram because then in the instagram platform shopping which talent skype it's all that to provide a better experience across the board Wow all right let's take a break from the show talk about one of our sponsors Oracle net sweet Kazan quite a bit but I do not use it at all fashion or beauty stuff I mean I go to I go to Sephora or Ulta not yet but they're making a huge push to get the biggest brands you know we're lucky that we're in a really fortunate position where we understand that customer we work closely with them every single day they buy in a really frequently from us so from our perspective it's how do we is just yapping dynamics that applying out in different industries I mean it's interesting you say that about Amazon because I do get like my household stuff from Amazon and I family jump around Anina being I don't know her she's a smaller designer she's really gaining traction I go to their site specifically because you know but it's not it's Amazon to that if you don't know your numbers you don't know your business this is true but the problem growing businesses have the keeps them from knowing their numbers is the hodgepodge of business systems man is that the truth behavior in shopping online is that it's a pain to shop anywhere also on you want because all your information's there you're on prime it's easy it's why apple pay and what is that the behavior here in the US. It's that's news to me that they're not in Australia there but the vast majority of people that I know and you know my you start your fashion I gotta say get a lot of fashion us from instagram you know it's like I I see somebody wearing something that I like and you you know it's so quickly introducing nets we've by Oracle the business management software that handles every aspect of your business in an easy to use cloud platform gives you the visibility and the control you need to grow yeah which is right now it just feels very like house holy to meet for Amazon and I'm going somewhere else one hundred percent profession can you use your service in a store as it only order how are they yeah I mean we'll have yell who's the founder who's amazing on show at some point and I think they're just killing it and yeah I mean I I just kind of ran slash bar check it out you guys I promise it will change your business very cool all right back to the show I imagine it's gotta be daunting to your wife point of don't look they have one system for accounting and other for sales and other for inventory and so on and so on it's just a big inefficient mess takes up way too much time and way too many resources in that hurts the bottom line this guy opportunity it's fine like did announce instagram shopping about six months ago so they went out with a pilot with all of our brands the you know the way we're we're part of that policy so across more channels and so much more with mets what you save time money and unneeded headaches by managing sales finance and accounting orders HR instantly part of the defense you know these brands own their own brand we owned our own experience but couldn't your couldn't after beyond Amazon potentially but I would I meant nine in Australia now about a quarter about business comes offline and will roll out in the US shortly off line as well the card that you use or well it's a boxer grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash bar that's net sweet dot com slash bar to download your free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits Netflix Dot com thousands of the best known brands and fastest growing companies use netscape light dry bar to manage their business now it's available to you you'll learn how to optimize your processes drive operational excellence then like if you go backwards you end up back on instagram and not on the page I don't WanNa do it like this so then I will just go to site but I wish Graham we'll get better with them right from your desktop or phone that's awesome that's why net sweet is the world's number one cloud business system and right now Nasdaq is offering valuable insights with a free guide seven key strategies Dole parts of the industry really to scale quickly and in the right way in that our customers expect so yeah we work closely with all parts of the payments landscape or parts of the so similar gift card the retailer Scans that into their point us our platform and then the orders confirmed in the cosmetics part-time now have have the big credit card companies taking noticeably yet in in Australia or or beyond lost full year results we announced a strategic partnership with visa so I had a you know parts of the network were closely together down I mean what you've built in improper probably be easy to just sell out to one of these companies and and be done with it but they won't be a window that doesn't have enough to pay you know like it's the coolest most proudest moment ever when my best childhood friend sent me these photos we're gonNA forever like that's how that's always out mindset and we make truly long term decisions and we're investing really really proudly and you know we still were who we were it was a cool thing of the week ago to a meeting and no one knew who we were and we will processing you know thirty percent of fashion online in Australia yeah so hard because this is a once in a lifetime opportunity that you know we know that our families will be so proud of you walk through a shopping centre in Australia and and that was purposeful it's just we're not the type of people that needs to be out there if it's for the benefit of the business absolutely but from our perspective antonoff writers have a bane about and like I say you know you hear about that you know we're speaking before we came on we never pay out ourselves we landed in the US no one the kind of startup economics and flexibility but equally they're backed by you know really big public company that has the cash that we strategy Wow Selena the capital will public raise money on market it was we want strategic money because people the most important thing about business in like we're looking at this how do we be a truly global platform but it all comes back to the retail partners that you work with at the end of the day so you know then you're coincidentally I I met a great guy honestly we weren't focused on it at all and then the fittest group got in touch and they're like hey oh same kind of what's happened over here and I got to know them quite well I I said to Anthony we're going to go to the US aw fascinating story I mean I don't know the dynamics in Australia you mentioned that there's no private money here it's it's crazy to think about going public when you're that that I said to Anthony You WANNA go public like find someone else how I felt and listen there's not many moments in this I'm GonNa just say just trust me but just the U. K. R. Retailers Jd sports and Boohoo group said Hey can we wanna we wanna do this together so the fact that we have this global retail network they're pulling us into different complete nine hundred for a venture capital fund out of San Francisco and the reason why we did that was reached didn't believe that being USTRALIAN business coming to the United shopping windows you know so it's just it's it's how we are so awesome now what was behind the decision to come to the US versus or you attacking multiple countries at the same time Pathak brothers you know we still speak I times a day between here and Australia distance is hard because he's now grew jaw driving Steitz we'd be able to attract the right talent so competitive to get talent I didn't know anyone I had no network and so you know we said today and I look we'll do this because adjourn I was in the US on a plane and we started building when Ervin was integrating so actually shared bill Campbell like hey will expose API's to you when you're in twelve months since launching we hide almost one hundred people mainly out of San Francisco but was spread out all over the US office in New York and so he doing trust me. I've got your back this is my world like yet how do you how do you know Anthony again was my lived across the road from my neighbour so that's it and we just in the Australian public company or you have a new company and we have a wholly-owned subsidiary in the United States but it's funded out of this public organization so agents and so for us it's how do we scale in the right way that's in partnership without brands 'cause we're really fortunate to work with brands in the world who also globally so okay call and then what are you doing next week and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa go to the US what so I just jumped on a plane around the time when we did touch called merger we agreed to touch those are the ingredients for great partnership I say exact same thing about us in our our relationship and yeah you gotTa know your strengths and weaknesses good partner it must feel entrepreneurial again this phase of the bill and move very open like hi we moved we had not started writing code that was where we were at and so similarly in the revolve around the world reformations GonNa WanNa do something totally different that's on brand so you know from our perspective it's like had a we were with these different brands a lot to communicate and most people try and do everything and really well and when you grow so fast as you guys probably saw you get flooded with all of these opportunities that you can do uh-huh Australia on driving the US and UK international growth but we separate and conquer and we trust each other and we know our line so it's it's awesome absolutely yeah at the ingredients that went into Diwan of the ingredients that go into Daito Bunka the same the Dan is the same strategies assigned with lock you that we had is your dollars in that shirt and she spent twenty five you know it's like I wonder if these girls know about you know after pay they're not shopping at reformation because every your brand to go elsewhere and and it takes a disciplined and and it's hard to not do more than one thing Allen I are looking at each other because we get approved so if you can build a brand around one product that is the best you can possibly built we we use the example in and out Burger all the time and say they could probably sell a lot of chickens you know they will go to forever twenty one to buy something that's essentially a knockoff of something that even like reformations doing and I spent to him old and then we work with them on how they want to communicate to our consumers so the way to think about it is of an outfit is we might want to roll out a marketing campaign on campus revolve in Anthony and I'm like I'm not doing this I'm not doing this this black box that is legitimate like opened up at Christmas party and I was like eyes college or just he's he likes to say we don't realize but on a little bit older than me so he's about twenty years older than me and for us we're like Call Dynasty Matrix Partners Dana was chief commercial at Ebay he acquired paid off Ebay and then rolled out papers international expansion hateful money into our public company which was just this shopping across the platform and then making millennials actually prefer to make investment decisions actually have a higher single through different channels and in different towns and etc and we'll work with them as to how we roll it out it starts with more we work with businesses to go to market data say marketing and other things however you know working closely without retailers to really scale is is is cool but then how do you do that have this big business in Australia but you're starting from scratch here you you mentioned you're starting to open offices all over the place but it's like rubber meets road sales people out there talking to merchants and and then the todd connor turns is way acquire a lot of customers and then we can drive a lot of volume back to retailers so there is this kind of knit work cycle that takes place we do we've thought about it many times it's daunting but was it as daunting owes for you is is insane I was twenty five twenty six to annacone meantime the off brand how do you do that and I still speak in the right way yeah because it's interesting I think about like the girls in like cams office you know who are in their twenties and you're really blown away by this once in a public yeah that's right well they have some strategic investors here through ellen daughter of where people shopping M Y different times of the year and the at a moments but I mean just in terms of the marketing you know I didn't know anything about this until you were just from every single investment we've ever had that wants us to do more and different oh you've got these people's attention you should do this you have to die for and diversify and that's not going to build a mode and it's actually a cat they're actually far more willing to use it frequently and talk about it because of this extra layer of your student debt credit version I mean average age now is early thirties oh I could actually afford to get that one dress from reformation that I actually want from formation instead of getting the knockout for mortgage if I knew I could spread out how is paying you know I'd be okay in terms of attracting retailers because I kinda come from that industry but the question was a customer's going to use it in the same way and what I didn't what about the the marketing strategy for consumers is it does it just happen more organically because you get the merchants and they discover it what we do is we partnered with the best rate television early understand which was really in hindsight because a friend of mine is in this space around student debt student loans that doesn't exist in Australia in the US on our show and not to be jerk but you know I think there is something to be said about you know some sort of marketing campaign that gets that outlet who average order value like you think about the snake oh world the JEN's as driving the average sneakers of the goats and fly clubs of the world like they're

apple Michael Landau Elliot US Aaron splice Australia Anthony Jeffrey Star Seattle Melissa Davis Melissa Fedex CEO Oracle nine billion dollars one hundred dollars thirty percent twelve months six months
Patrick Grove on Journaling As A Tool To Become A Millionaire

The Mindvalley Podcast with Vishen Lakhiani

32:07 min | 2 years ago

Patrick Grove on Journaling As A Tool To Become A Millionaire

"Ambitionless Kiani founder of Mine Valley the School for Human Transportation. You're listening to the Minor League podcast where we'll be bringing you. The greatest teachers and thought leaders on the planet discussed the world's most powerful ideas and personal growth for mind audience. I WANNA bring fought a guy who kind of kicked my butt when I was playing small and I want you to listen to him for the next thirty minutes so as we go on this interview because I think you're GonNa get some really important things out of this but what I want to share with us some of the people that inspired me go bolder and I'm hoping that some of this will rub off on Youtube that no matter where you are you also can go bigger and bolder in terms of our collective collective instruction manuals for spatial Patrick. Rav is a really unique character. I've known him as a friend for over a decade and I'll tell you one story about him. I actually wrote about this story. In my book the extraordinary mind I was in starbucks and I was working working on something like small to me. It was a big deal but it was small. It was basically an optimized blog so that I could earn income as a teacher from affiliate marketing sounded cool to meet that Ben but here's what happened I walk into starbucks to sit down and start writing down my blog and I see Patrick and I'm like Oh man. Patrick is going to frigging love this thing I've totally nailed on how to just like stream organic search traffic to a blog so that you can get autopilot affiliate revenue and go up to Patrick and he scribbling rebelling on a piece of paper in on that piece of paper. I see the number one hundred million so I asked Patrick what's going on here. What are you doing and he puts his pen down? He goes this. I'm trying to think about how I can generate one hundred million dollars in a business in one single year and I'm thinking okay. He's probably not going to be interested in my blog idea so go buy a cup of coffee. I sit down and I just listened to him and I'm slightly skeptical. I mean who the hell like in my mind like a guy sitting in starbucks in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia. It's not going to generate one hundred million business in one year but the funny thing about Patrick is he has this habit of setting a vision and then making it real patrick went on to create a series of companies call my car. He bought a small all car website raise. Some venture funding merged it with other car websites rolled it into a giant company called I car and took it public in one year at evaluation on the Australian Stock Exchange of one hundred million. Here's the crazy part Patrick didn't stop there. Patrick went on to create multiple multiple multiple hundred million dollar plus companies. He launched militias biggest media company with Kylie. WHO's a former speaker and a former? I'm a mind valley employees. He launched Malaysia's biggest property company and he sold it to Rupert Murdoch for seven hundred million dollars and he went onto just launch multiple companies and now his next goal is a billion dollars and he's doing that with I- flicks which is the net flicks of the developing world so he's creating literally a Netflix for countries in Africa countries in Southeast Asia where local programming can be accessible to people who don't have television sets but have mobile mobile phones and in the process he's become last. I checked the seven richest man in Australia but he isn't driven by wealth. I Know Patrick What I love about. The guy is that he's really humble. He's really loving. He knows how to have some sort of like a Richard Branch inside character Erica but what I love most about Patrick Service how for ten years he's been kicking my butt because every time I feel damn addition you've done it. I see another news article about Patrick Grove and I'm like I gotta go bigger but you know the reason reason why Mine Valley went from simple online publisher to now building global universities is partially because of the influence of men like this see we all rub off on each other. We all are influenced by each other. The reason why I want to keep elevating the level of people in this tribes because if I don't level starts dropping so every year we increase the ball and we increase the bar and we increase the bar so that we can all elevate each other the same effect that Patrick Grove has on me constantly kicking my butt to go bigger is what I want to have happen in this tribe so you'll see this leveling up happening at every happening at Pine Valley University happening. New People becoming happen to the people we bring onstage with that. Let's bring onstage Patrick growth so couple of questions I what was going on in your mind there like this journaling thing you do on a piece of paper where you plot taking over the world stop light into what's happening listening listening to that introduced now. I feel like to apologize to because that eight years ago when I saw in starbucks I didn't ask you about your blog website but you're trying to build so I'd love to know more about that blog website and how you optimize S._E._o.. Traffic and maybe we can talk about that over lunch but novitiate is one of those close friends where I'm sure you'll have a close friend where you live in the same city you only see each other once a year but when you see each other that one moment it's just magical and it's incredible and fishing is one of my closest friends and so I'm really happy to. Be here and be part of this tribe in terms of the journaling vision has been a huge influence in my life. A lot of the Tony Robbins material has been hugely influential and I read once somewhere that people who write down their goals and it'd been proven even had a far greater greater chance of achieving their goals as opposed to people who would just think about it and think oh well I want to have a nice house or a nice car and a beautiful family versus the people who actually wrote it down somewhere in a journal or in a word document or put on a poster on the wall and so what I did about ten years ago is I started journaling and sometimes I would do it in a notebook. Sometimes I do it in my laptop and I would literally for the first few sessions I would write down complain about all the things in my life that I hated my body. I hated but my business was small. I hated that we lived in Kale. Why didn't we live in a city like New York or whatever whatever and once I got all that negative energy out of the jury process that I started thinking you know what why don't I start journal about what Oh actually want out of my life and so I started right now okay? I want to live in a better home. I want to have an amazing relationship with every member of my family. I WANNA have amazing vision. Maybe I don't see them. Every week or every month may see within one year but what we're still the closest friends I wanna be able to travel. Maybe I live in Kale. Let me find great things about Kale but at the same thing let me traveled a great cities that as me and so what happened is that number one was I started using the general to complain and once I got that out of my system I started using the journal to envision what it was a wanted to get out of my life and I think we're made the biggest breakthrough in that was kind of around the time. It was always that I wasn't using the journals. Write down what I wanted. I was using the journal process to write down. How do I get what I want and I think that was the biggest breakthrough that I had? Where's and you think about it a lot? Is that a lot of people when they're thinking in their mind. They're asking yourself. Why why? Why did this happen to me? Why am I not happy with my body? Why am I not happy with my bank account? Why don't I go on great holidays like all these people on instagram that I follow why don't I have great cool especial friends and once you stop using why is the beginning of every question that you ask yourself and started replacing it with how and then I started using the journal process? How do I have more respectful friends? How do I go and more inspirational holidays? How do I have a better body? How do I have closer relationships with my brother rather my mother and my father my friends and so on and so when you saw me that day and those funny was more kind of like going to the seminar? Sometimes you need to step outside your comfort zone and just kind of shock the system and do something different and that's why I'm wearing a flower in my head. That's why I'm wearing fill up and you just sometimes need to deliberately do something different because then your mind starts to think differently and so when you saw me it was really cute is that starbucks Matt was not a starbucks that I normally go to at all so I deliberately went to a different starbucks. I deliberately bought a notebook and started with. How do I make one hundred million dollars in twelve months and when I first started back to like how it was not why don't I have a hundred million dollars? How do I get hundred million dollars and I thought let me really cheeky with my some say in twelve months? Thanks and that's when you saw me by the time you told me I also thought it was a crazy crazy thing to try and do the funny thing is that by doing three or four sessions like that actually figured out a way to do it and then ended up doing it so when you saw me I had no hope or belief whatsoever that it was possible but it was just like a fun thing to do like I could watch something on Netflix I could go to the cinema or I could just sit in the cool cafe and try and sold this ridiculous crazy question and what surprised me. Is that the mourn why did this kind of exercise our start to solve these problems. How often do you do these exercises? I'm GonNa Freak you out. I'M GONNA show you my calendar from last week. What does that say can be an session? What percent sent me to actually put in my calendar when a plane for one hour and I haven't figured this out yet but it's such a fun? How do I make ten billion dollars into your and it's actually in my dollar ten being session ten be obsession and the ten billion dollars in two years? I have no idea how to do it so donato but it's just such a fun process figure it out Holy Shit. This is and I'm starting to feel like I'm playing to small again okay so if you want we can talk about the blogs I feel bad so we started out with one hundred million. You pulled it off with icon Asia. How long was that from writing it down to actually making it happened around five years right? No like that time we started journaling session. It was probably four or five sessions like that. Okay so I would do a session every week. So a few things I learnt were journaling his great and amazing you can either right or you can type whatever you like and it was Ki- start with how question not a why question how question and the other thing is put it in your frigging diary because we're are all lazy. All we all want to do something. That's fun instantly rewarding and it's hard to sit in the trafficker. How am I going to solve this Christmas? It's like the same like you put a gym session in your diet or you put like a phone. Call with someone from me if I don't put it in my daughter and I'm just incredibly A._D._d.. It just doesn't happen right. As I put in my diary and what I found was that usually about if you do four or five sessions you start to get crystal clear clarity on how to solve a big question this amazing how to do it and it's kind of like what you said the other is like riding down four or five page plan and then getting out there and executing during the plan takes that case months okay so you started out with one hundred million in one year you execute it that I believe you up to go to one billion in twelve months. Did that happen now. It didn't happen completely became super close <music>. What was the super close so we started the company Kodi flicks and the company was worth five six hundred million dollars within twenty four months of starting the company but what was your genes is that when I was doing the journaling flexing Lychee set myself the goal of how to make a billion dollars within twenty four months and at the time? I thought it was crazy but I thought you know what like if I'm not going to be crazy. I'm never going to figure this out if I just keep doing the same thing that every other entrepreneur does that I'm never going to get a crazy outsize result and what was interesting is that we came up with a crazy plan share with the team they got behind it and so what was funny is that we didn't hit the billion dollar goal but we hit a five hundred million dollar Goldman. That's pretty damn good hit the goal so one of the really set set the goal so far ahead but even the only hit half your goal so pretty damn good achievement. It's like that quote aim for the stars and maybe you land on the moon. That's remarkable so you set a goal for one billion in twelve months four months and you hit at five hundred million in twenty four months cool. That's still pretty impressive not too bad trying to I know I know I know I know starbucks and so that's why I now up the number to tell me I don't get turned on by having ten billion Liam dollars in the bank. I just get turned on by setting myself a big crazy goal and proving to myself like I should figure out how to achieve that goal and this is kind of how you play the game with life. Some people giggles climb mountains. Your goal is to take companies public. I believe right now. You have taken five companies public now. There was a moment though when the dot com bubble burst so patrick started a search engine in Asia uplift Catcher catcher in the DOT COM bubble burst. He basically wasn't a virgin losing everything. Tell us that story are we how you rebounded okay so nine hundred ninety nine. I Dot Com crash twenty four years old. We had a company with three hundred employees across five countries. We'd raise twenty million dollars from investors. I'd convince my mom to invest their life. Savings in the business. Stock Market crashes even though we'd raised twenty million because we need Yang and twenty four years old your whole team staff with a bunch of twenty four years old so the CEO me twenty four years old my c._F._O.. Twenty three years old wanted has never never have twenty-three-year-old c._F._O.. Ever again anyway so when the market crashes I look at him. So what's the financial situation. He's got a good news bad news for you. I'm like okay. What's the good news you like? We have two million dollars in the bank. It was like okay well. We started with twenty two okay. That's the good news. What's the bad news because we owe people six million dollars? It's like fuck. It's like okay never again. Hire your good friend and a twenty three years old as a C._F._o.. So what happened is that we woke up one day literally with four million dollars in debt. The three hundred staff went to thirty staff. We didn't one afternoon we had to cut. Four countries cuddle the staff. You know it's really tough saying like I'm really sorry like I don't know what happened to your life savings. You know I was in a really dark place. I would go to bed every night literally hoping that my building that I lived in would blow up while I was asleep. I wouldn't have to wake up to face the World Tamar and so what was really interesting is it was Saturday night at I think it was like like whatever nine thirty I was in the bookstore Saturday night and I stumbled across a book called unlimited power by Anthony Robbins and at the time I didn't have any money so what I would do. Is I go to the bookstore and I would like hide in a little corner. There's a big bookstore back in the days when they sell it bookstores and and I was just sitting little corner of the bookstore and I would try to read as much of the book in the bookstores under the by the book and I didn't realize it was midnight and I didn't realize they literally shut down the books or they were cleaning up the bookstore they turn off the lights and I was almost almost reading in the dark. I was like Holy Shit. I'M GONNA be stuck in the bookstore so I reluctantly buying the book. The book went home. You know you ever have a book where you just can't put it down and the book was kind of exactly what I needed at that point in time because I hadn't given up but I just didn't have the mental and the physical strength to keep going anymore. My Dream had to be an entrepreneur and I'd seen that completely collapsed. I was on the front page of the newspaper HEADLINES SAYING DOT COM bust big photo of me and you know my mother had lost her life savings backing me and so he just didn't have the mental strength or clarity T._V.. Like fuck you get out of this and then I read the book and straightaway it just gave me such great blueprint on how to be more effective in the way that you use your brain the way that you visions the questions that you ask the way you communicate with yourself the body language that you use the way that you surround yourself with other inspirational people and it was just literally a how to guide for how to train your brain to. Be Better in shitty situations and I literally went from there and kind of over eight year period. Now we have three thousand people across thirty countries. My mom got back older savings and such a beautiful experience so that was one of the key things and so you went on from there from feeling like a complete failure to going on to take five companies I._P._O.. Her one I know my property user to Rupert Murdoch for like what seven hundred million seven hundred fifty million throwing balls yeah that's remarkable so you're still champion of four public companies or ECHO. How do you manage that? Keep this in mind. He's the chairman of four public companies collectively were over a billion dollars. You're here in Bali and you've been in Bali for a while the last time I saw you you're you're building your flower. In your hand. flipflops champion I know aging progressively faster having lost most of our hair and permanently shaking you're hanging out with the wrong chair to the point one of the reasons why I'm buying one of these why is that you get so much energy and inspiration by surround yourself and use the word the right tribe and so one of the things why I come to Bali surround myself such beautiful holistic environment where it allows my brain to become free start to think about bigger better great if you're stuck in the day to day of life. It's sometimes hard to break free to the point other. Why do I do my big vision exercises on planes? I don't get distracted. I don't get emailed. I don't get what's at you. Don't get dragged dragged into a meeting so for me Bali's place where you literally you get out of your comfort zone to mentally get out of your comfort zone. You need to physically get out of your comfort zone as well and I think you know one of the things I learned from Patrick is that if you're solving a problem you're solving the model and often it takes the same amount of genius to solve a small problem versus a big problem and so you can set it all to create a million dollar company and it might require the same amount of genius faculties to get there a setting golden study billion dollar company and here's what I mean tell us the story of how you start a public company and then humidity spin it off and how you get the right person to run it by poaching the competition. That was genius okay so I think one of the things that you need to do as the leaders you need to get really crystal clear. What are your strengths and what are your weaknesses and I think in the beginning and I had this? I thought I could be great at everything and I can do everything and and then you learn over time. You know what I'm really really. I'm good at certain things and there's other things that I'm kind of average that and there's other things I'm really bad at and so one of the things I learned early on in particular that process when the company almost went off and I had the reflect and it's always great when you can do this together with business partner we started saying he don't what do we think as individuals we can be world best and let's just do that and everything else that we're not world. We might be Malaysia best ad or Asia best but if not world's best at a certain thing let's not do it. Let's hire someone to let's find line someone else who's world's best at so the example of I probably was the first kind of company that we bill we floated on stock market and just to define either. Petit is a big property listing website where you your properties for rent or for sale and you know for the first two years. I was chairman of the business but it was almost like C._e._o.. C._O._O. kind of relationship and we thought we can do this a sales where young we're hungry. We were called. We'll figure it out and then what happened. Was that a big company Australia. They were worth like seven hundred million. We were worth twenty million at the time and they would always trash talk us in the press trash talk us to fund managers and analysts. They were legit trying to start off our funding so we would just die and then what happened is that we've been running the business for two years and we were kind of like if we were to give ourselves a report we're a B. At managing company was we were like an aide putting together the pieces and building energy strategy and so on but we were running a company so what happened is that this company that was bigger than us and was trash talking like every they got the shareholders and the C._e._o.. And The C._E._O.. Had A little bit of disagreement on salary package and it became quite public so I literally straightaway went on M._S._N.. Messenger at the time is quite a while ago and reach out to the CEO now and said Hey happy with your package. Join us. We'll give you a better package was like fuck lie. Would I join you and he was paid like three million dollars. A year in our company is only worth like thirty million dollars so I was like okay so then I went to the show. Hey do you want to join us at Fox. I'm about to be the C._E._O.. That's what he was thinking. No no no no. Thanks getting paid million dollars a year so then it was four countries and I found the G._M.. Of Australia Yo and this time I did my residency. This guy paid okay just need to offer a little bit more like you would like to join a pay. The same thing pay family moved to Malaysia. We'll give pillow options in the company. Would you like to move to Malaysia and he goes yeah. I need to get the fuck Outta here like summarizing a lot of chats one but and you know what and he moved to Malaysia and you've met him. It's Sean and he moved to Malaysia. And at that time we were kind of being cheaper go. I'll be the chairman. My best friend will be the C._E._O.. And he'll be the C O and literally. We're a little bit cheeky so part of the interview interview. You're going to meet other guys like there's no other guys but we always say that you gotta come and present like what would you do. What would be your ninety day plan? What would be your one year plan? What would be your plan and our view was that if he wasn't the right guy at least we'll get the plan so he came over? I did notice Sherman. He wasn't sure how that shakeout above was going to end up came and the plan that he presented was like so frigging good. We're just like we gotta close this guy on the spot but when he went through the planet started to realize that his plan China's ability to execute the plan would be far better than if I sent forty eight hours a day trying to build that business and that's when I realized that they really are people who are better than you at certain different things that you're doing and here's at the time we you're paying ourselves. I don't know like hundred thousand dollars a year and he was going to be paid five hundred thousand dollars a year but if you start thinking about it from an entrepreneurial or share high is like if we have a company worth thirty million dollars a year and I've got to step out of my comfort zone own go from paying my best friend one hundred K. you're paying this guy five hundred k. a year but he made the company go from thirty million to seven hundred million the best investment any day of the week thirty million to seven hundred million seven hundred fifties van over six seven years six seven years and I remember during that time to you in a bar and you can't win. Bishop disappointed and I'm like Patrick what happened. You're like I put so much of my money in apple stock because apple stock is always growing and it's so predictable but have you you seen my own company. It's overtaken apple stock in terms of growth this year. She just invested in my own company. Do you remember that I do remember that anyway. Told me about your blog. We'll come to that. We'll come to that. You might find that idea pretty fascinating so now tell us about ice lakes flakes. You're looking at competing with net flicks which is no joke in the developing world. This is a very western skewed what we found in all of the emerging markets. It's Indonesia Philippines Thailand is that most people watch video on their mobile phones which is a little different where everyone is a big screen t._v. and secondly most people don't want to watch western content. They don't want to watch house of cards. They don't WanNa watch oranges and you back. They WANNA watch local original shows or in the Asian shows or shows and you know Netflix H._B._O.. Your doesn't target that autumn so we go out there and built a big disruptive media business. It was really bad because we wanted to disrupt three things at the same time we just want him to disrupt free to Air TV cable TV and piracy all at the same time and we thought if we can do that and build a great entertainment platform that sits on the mobile emerging markets and we would build a big business that's awesome and you're doing such a great service for local cultural literal programming as well so it doesn't get drowned out by just American programming so congratulations euro next question is how do you find balance in life because you're a busy guy. You seem really balanced to me so this is quite a journey. I'm glad you asked me this. It probably in my twenties I was very single-mindedly obsessed with creating wealth and is really funny like if he's been tiling look like someone who has a lot of wealth and it's funny took me while to realize that it wasn't actually the actual money in my bank account that I was seeking it was more the kind of Alpha male competitiveness against Alpha males and that kind of rank like how big is your company or your company and that's what I was seeking and in my twenty s it was very kind of about that and then there was a moment one day when I woke up and and you realize that hey I haven't seen my dad like nine months. I was talking to my brother in six months. I don't even know who my best friend is. I even have one not happy with my body and I'm not happy with my relationships and you start to realize just so focused based on wealth gration died missed so many other parts of life so what happened in my thirties I kind of use the journaling process to kind of evolve the way that I create balance and one of the things I do is I still use the journal process because I need to think structured and simple. I'm GonNa Forget it. We'll get distracted is that I created this thing. I don't know if I've ever told you this. Call the six S. so I burnt down my goals into what I call six fs so it's so easy I can be at an airport. Terminal waiting for flight which is scheduled is like a flight every day quickly mentally go through my mind. My six absence what I've done is. I've determined that for me to be balanced. I need to be happy with my progress on each of the six absence of the six APPS are number one is finance number two family emily number three friends number four fitness number five figureheads. If you're like I want to share and I want to help others number six most importantly and your this is fun so six. It's like a mental check that I go through like okay you like. What am I doing about my finance goal okay? What am I doing about my fitness goal? What am I doing about my fun goal? That's come to Bali come this event. What am I doing about my figurehead goal? You know when I'm going to talk to you about writing a blog and how to create a great blog. Oxide and so what I found was that go through the journal process but how come to family okay. How can I be a better son? How can I be a better brother and then one of the Susan okay? I'm going to organize a group holiday in Bali and that's another reason why bye-bye special to me because it was at one place to get everyone in my family live all over the world to come for one week and that was incredibly accessory and what I found was that because I'm kind of a goal orientated machine that once I started making sure that I had bounced goals in each of those six S. at the same intensity that you saw me in that. How do I make a hundred million dollars? It's the same as how do I make sure that everyone in my family speaks to everyone else once a month or crazy shit like that it seems like your mind just needs to solve problems in a beautiful way and you're solving the problems for everyone including your family really appreciate how much you care side story about Patrick. I'd originally ask him months ago to speak at the safest but he had gone for surgery and he was having some difficulty with this boy so he couldn't commit and soon as he healed himself he wants sent me and said Hey. I'm going to be in Bali. Let me know how I can contribute and this is why he's here. Maybe repeat the success people who are interested in so what I would say is an unfamiliar like I don't want to get on a stage and share my story. I don't think my story is that important. It's I would love that if I can make a really really small difference for some of the people in this room and if I get a little nugget of I would say however you schedule your life for their senior phone or like commit right now. Put a mark on your calendar whether it's the flight back whether it's tomorrow on the beach and just block out a one hour schedule if you can block out one hour to go to the gym you can block out one hour to watch something on netflix walkout one hour for yourself and start journaling and whether you use the five six. I don't care what system you use just. If you're never journal then just I get out all the bullshit in your life in the Journal and then start to what you want out of life and then start to how do I get that life put on some good music to a beautiful place and just commit to just do one session in a cool cafe somewhere and I think that start to get addicted to it. You'll find it such a beautiful therapy and what you start the fine you start to write the story of your life and I'll tell you what's in mind went because I'm doing this person's now for ten years. Sometimes I would write like okay what does Patrick's life in ten years look like and I just ride it. Blah Blah Blah. I'd just crap at so frigging scary because I'd go back and read what I wrote and it's like a ninety percent success rate. All the crazy things that I've written down have actually ended up coming into my life. Is Dan Mindset or some sort of philosophy that you have internally that you think is making that come to you so yeah. I think what it is that I think a lot of l._M._U.. Watch the secrets are just thinking about it. Think about it. Think about it and I think for me. It was like I felt that there was more than just thinking about envisioning like just imagine I mean to me was more the how like ask yourself the how like if you watch the secret and then it says oh just think about having the most amazing create if you just think think think think think not sure what share but I'm not a big believer in just thinking and that happens I'm more action orientated person and saying okay I think about it so now it's in my soul and my mind as to what I want but more importantly Roy how will actually make it happen and I think too many people just think think think and just kind of waiting waiting for the lottery ticket to like hit me and waiting for that customer to say yes or waiting for this amazing part of welcome but I feel like you've got to take action and I think just by religiously XLII asking yourself how how how do you how do I have better people my life. How an amazing holidays? How do I learn as much as I can out of this session? How do I have a great time tonight and meet three awesome people that are going to be best razor? Just keep asking yourself how then that I think your mind your body and your soul was over. Those amazing and Patrick wasn't even here yesterday when we spoke about the Google and Intel philosophy of okay ours but that's the how can you guys see how okay are take your vision and reduce it to what you need to do. You this quarter businesswise or personal wise to hit the targets and gives you measurable goals that how process what I recommend is the chaos and definitely the journaling and the setting time aside process that Patrick talks about interestingly. You were not aware of the conversation I was just recommending with Cameron herold right the pardon has that sort but it's eerie how much of an overlap Cameron herold suggest as I said that you take time off getting a boat. Get Out of the office. Open Up Journal and write your vivid vision. He doesn't have success but he talks about. I kid you not five. That's fate family friends finance fitness faith family friends financial fitness Boring Guy Right and then Patrick Tumour. It doesn't matter what yeah so you can take Cameron herold five apps at mattress spun and then go ahead go wild no not yet but I bet you someone who knows him and his what setting him right now what I would say as CLEESE's book in our with Yourself Coco cafe put on a good music set you like to listen to and I'm easy to add on instagram and just do it and tell me if you liked it because I'm curious to know it works for me and I'm not trying to sell this on the world but I'm just really really cursing if works for other people. How do we follow you on instagram? Just add Patrick Grove and you can just message me directly it super easy awesome. Thank you Patrick Cool thank you.

Patrick starbucks Netflix Malaysia Patrick Grove Journal Bali Australia Mine Valley Rupert Murdoch Youtube chairman Patrick growth Asia Southeast Asia CEO
Ilan Israelstam - Investing in Cybersecurity

Shares for Beginners

33:34 min | 1 year ago

Ilan Israelstam - Investing in Cybersecurity

"But also to make sure the portfolios right for your age. So the person with a fifty year period between now, retirement really shouldn't be focusing on income. They should be focusing on capital growth that should be focusing on gang exposure away from Australia and making sure that they don't have too much of the portfolio in cash. It's very easy to get best in cash with the truth is time volatility is high in the market, but it does provide a very hand source of return over the many many. Years. which those types of people have to invest get them. Welcome back to shares for beginners I'm philosophy Tila. You may remember a few episodes ago. When we spoke with professional investor stave map, he was talking about the portion of his portfolio deployed in eight years and in particular one with the name of Heck Hi, it's an ATF Pakistan Saba security it's gone and a lot of interests who better to find out more from than with the CO founder of Beta shes who are the issues of the. And the head of strategy. Israel. Stam. Could I allow? Hey, hey, guys and feel good. Thanks very much for coming over. So you're fond of startups and technology and venture capital. Tell us a bit about your life up until this point. Great. Well, like many Australians I am an immigrant. So I came here from the South African nation. Can with my family. We actually immigrated together when I was at the very end of primary school. So that was my journey. We actually traveled around quite a bit before we ended up in Australia. That's probably something for another story, but I am an immigrant and I studied here in Sydney at the University of New South Wales I did a law degree and commerce degree greatest study law, but I worked out probably after the second. Lecture I ever had that I didn't want to be a lawyer. So I always had an entrepreneurial side though through through the years I've been involved in a number of entrepreneurial endeavors and I think a lot of that comes from being an immigrant. Immigrants. Do. Understand how much has been given up in the process of emigrating and seeing people once parents is done and that's may be pretty keen to get involved in something that I can call my own our at least jointly owned. The startup space this space definitely, very interested in these exactly exactly and we we were doing stops young kids remember telling of mini Gulf format neighbors in the new of Sydney, touching twenty cents for people to come play mini, golf course, and all that kind of fun stuff little kids stuff that ended up going into. Little businesses that one does win at university. So my attending mobile, we did a DJ business and all was fun stuff. But when I finished university, I actually ended up joining a corporate job in the company called the Boston Consulting Group otherwise known as BC to strategy consulting firm where you basically help CEO's make decisions about their business. So should we enter China? Should we start this particular product line etc, etc. so that was my first real job. Did in Sydney in New York and so so that was that in the entrepreneurial each came back though, and after about five and a half years I decided it was time to go out and do my own thing again. So my story actually was to go to China of all places I. wanted to experience growth that was happening ever in China which was palpable Y- back then this is a roundabout two, thousand and six and I went over there looking around for opportunities and ended up starting actually an outdoor advertising. Business in China, which was putting up digital billboards in tertiary educational institutions such as universities that I am of selling digital advertising space. So that was a pretty fun experience ended up with a reasonably sizable team, but it was a lonely experience actually I was doing it by myself. I had a large number of chinese-speaking staff. I was the only non-chinese speaking staff member there I suppose I was managing those forty five people. So it was quite lonely, and so once that was over I decided to come back to Sydney. And connect up with a few friends of mine that were actually university with me and together we started looking at business opportunities in primarily the finance spicer that point and that is where we happened upon the exchange traded funds spice, and that is why we are now building out a business Kobe dishes, which is in ETF's when did that stop what year was that in? Yeah. We started the business in two thousand nine and actually put our first product on the sex at the end of two, thousand and ten so. It's almost ten years now in December it will be ten years because there wasn't that many eightieths around in noteworthy there wasn't there wasn't there were still some big players there but the industry was small. It was a five billion dollar industry comparing to sixty five billion dollars now when we started so but there was some big players there but we were the first independently of Australian owned and managed firm to start back then so it was a great great experience getting started but like everything took longer than we thought but. Now has snowballed quite a bit to become a decent sized a decent size organization. So everyone the comes on the podcast that's involved in ATF. So I always ask them for definition and what an ATF is. Yeah. Everyone's got a slightly different take on it but people still. Quite. Simple products but then people have a bit of trouble finding getting the hit around what they actually, what's your definition modifications to look at the letters and to give each of those letters meaning right. So ETF exchange traded the first two letters. That means it is something. It is a way to invest that is bought and sold like a share and because it's born so like share, of course, that means there's no minimum investment other than what broken might impose on you which strategies around five hundred dollars it also means you can buy and sell anytime during the trading day. It means that you are able to essentially do whatever you want in in in the train. Day. Period. So that's the exchange traded parts of bought and sold like shares and the F. IN ETF is fund and fun to most people would mean something that is diversified something that is protected from a regulatory point of view. The structure is a protected consumer-friendly structure. So it is a fund that tries on the Stock Exchange, but I suppose the ETF acronym doesn't do it justice entirely because what's important is that most ATF's passively managed and most ats will track an index. So what that will mean, by example, using an example about products, which is Nasdaq one, hundred etf everyone knows the Nasdaq one hundred or should because it's being probably the best of the best performing stock exchanges? Of all time, Yup. So you can then go ahead and buy on the Stock Exchange Avon at that provides you access to the hundred stocks in the Nasdaq one hundred in a single trade. So instead of choosing between facebook Amazon Google. You can buy Indecu, and that gives you exposure to all one hundred stocks. So that would be my definition of ATF and of course, with that definition and the meaning behind it comes the benefits, which is I mentioned before no minimum fees tradable and liquid you can buy and sell anytime is low cost. As you'd imagine because if it's index tracking, you don't pay a star fund manager like many don't show of come onto your program. We just track an index so we can pass. Those very low cost onto investors. It's also transparent so you can see it anytime. What's actually in the portfolio on an any ETF manages website and it's very, very accessible, very easy way to get access to things. You otherwise wouldn't be able to access such as technology one of the victim ATF as well as you've got marketmakers at any time of the trading day, the value reflects the underlying index, the basket of shares and stocks that make up that index is that that's the case. So. Essentially because you have full transparency on the portfolio, the ETF will be priced at a very similar price to the underlying securities that aims to track. So take investing has become very popular in the strider. It's one of the most recent things isn't it and tell us about how that's how you've seen it from your point of view in the way that Australians want to invest in the tech sector. Yeah. Insatiable demand for investing in. The tech sector people have realized just how imposing an important technology has become too all day to day lives. I mean if you spend time thinking about your day so far you would have interacted with at least ten probably twelve more technology businesses. Right? We don't need think about what those Abbott clearly it's going to be an apple or Samsung or facebook or Google, and so people realized pretty quickly that this is a space that has. Very significant growth ahead of. and has become not really a sector anymore really is just the world but as an Australian invest, it's not easy to get exposure to lodge technology companies or growing technology sectors although I. AM happy to say that the technology sector is growing quite nicely. Many of your listeners I'm sure would have exposure or at least heard of companies like after pay seek and zero. So those companies are great Australian businesses. But truth of the matter is still very little low local options and so from our perspective, we have found that ETF have become very, very significant way for Australian. Investors who otherwise have little option to invest in overseas markets and in particularly in the technology sector. Now, not only the big guys but also thematic products and thematic ideas, such sub security and robotics, artificial intelligence, etc.. So. What what you can now get an technology sector because it's become so large, you can choose from mature established players, really some of the biggest companies in the world, for example, by the Nasdaq one hundred. Amazon facebook. Alphabet and Netflix's etc. but also fast-growing growing subsectors such as as I said, robotics cybersecurity Australian technology. Etcetera. So we as business realized, as you correctly pointed out, we've always been interested in startup telling fact we actually invest in startups as well. So we realize the importance of technology investing relatively early and now actually have the largest Ryan to, of technology. Oriented products available on the ASX, these US companies and straton companies as well or companies around the world I. Guess It's not limited to the US it's around the world. So we've got six different products and I think at the moment we're managing about one point six, billion dollars out of total twelve and a half billion dollars in technology are intimate exposures. And we've got six different funds ranging from that very large Nasdaq one, hundred style exposure all the way through two Asian giants. So you may have heard of companies like Alibaba get an asset you can get an ETF gives you exposure to ten cent Alibaba. Some very significant Asian companies, Samsung etc. That's called Asia actually took his Asia all the way through to. Robotics and artificial intelligence fire rbtes ed, we can get exposure to. Things like this reading technology sector. We're actually brought up the first strategy and technology security, which is actually really great. We really like the idea of being able to support the Australian industry. But then also cybersecurity as well, which I know will be the focus of a number of questions. What's what's one of the strategy companies you find? Exciting? Hernan what's something that you find exciting look it's very hard not to be oppressed by what after has done and I mean they've created a new global category. They are now global business very much. The buy now pay later be Peel Sagir set aside, suppose the the insight that was a generated by the founders of after pays that just how interesting installment payments would be paying by instalments that's actually an Australian development isn't it? It absolutely comes out of Australia. It's an idea that's a growing into the US and Europe, and the UK isn't it and some very fast followers out of Europe and the UK but after pay just done phenomenally well. So that would be one out call out and to be honest, it's actually almost a win win for almost everybody the the consumer gets to payback storm without interest. So long as they pay on time and that's critical. But if I do pay on time, they get they pay by installments without interest. The. Retailer gets a whole lot of new clients and they're happy to pay a little bit full that and of course, after the investors will roll winning. So it's impressive business. No question about that. I very impressed by that. Looks Zero. Which is not an Australian company to New Zealand Company. Let's them we. Lifted listed company on the on the Australian. Stock. Exchange in New Zealand. Background has. Done something in in in what we thought was a very established sector of accounting software and just made it their own using cloud based technology, beautiful experience, and built up a phenomenal ecosystem. So another very impressive strategy company outside. So there's a number two that come to mind immediately, and those are two very large ones. But they don't Burnley. Let's get onto heck and cybersecurity. So Cisco's accompanied. That's in the heck portfolio. We've all heard of Cisco and their rattles and. Service. And so forth Tillis what their former C. E. O. has said about cybersecurity. There FOMC has said about cybersecurity I believe. That there are two he said they were, which is you're right. It is it is a portfolio company of one of the larger companies. There are two types of companies in the world those that have been hacked and those who don't yet know they have been. So I think that pretty much sets up y cyber security is such an interesting growth theme. So who are some of the players in the sector? The interesting thing about cybersecurity is there's a couple of companies that most people would have heard of particularly those who work in office jobs. So one would be as you mentioned Cisco and the other one would be semantic, which many of your listeners would have heard of because they do a lot of the antivirus software that you see there on the bottom right of your computer screen but actually the thing about the cybersecurity companies that there's a number of other businesses that are much smaller that wouldn't necessarily be household names but are doing amazing things. So those are the companies that are part of our cybersecurity ETF hack. So there's a company such as sidewalk software. It's another very. Significant security focused business with the focused primarily on certain a certain sectors, financial services. So they secure banks and energy companies, etc. As a company such as Palo Alto Networks, which does firewall technology. So the interesting thing about this space, and perhaps the reason why we do think that for many people who want exposure to the space etf investing makes sense is that they won't be many that come to people's minds. We've got a company called spunk in there. We've got a company that is basic several companies, Isreaeli companies. So this is where we think ETF investing really make sense getting exposure to pure play cybersecurity companies, fire single share all over the world, but not having to research spunk. CYBER ROCK WILL PALO ALTO networks. So so yes oh, and the other thing about these cyber security companies that you do have global giants but there's also a large number of businesses that are quite small, relatively speaking and making the name and therefore again. A lower under the right for people to to consider investing in as well sir. It'd be assuming that the security space would be like a battle and it'd be waged on many fronts and it's an ongoing battle. It's not something that once you've won the battle, the won the war yeah keeps going on doesn't it? It sure does and that is, of course, the reason why with an investment in Cybersecurity, you are essentially making any investment where you can make cybercrime peso make the criminals pay by by making money from the people who are protecting the world against cybercrimes and the numbers are just astounding preparing for this chat Phil I looked at some statistics and just truly incredible statistics. In fact, there was an article quite literally today it's August of two thousand and twenty at the moment, and there was an article today in the paper that said that ninety two percent of Australian organizations let alone the world ninety, two percent of Australian organizations say they're suffered a they call a business impacting cybersecurity attack in the last twelve months and more than half of those strolling company said they've had five or more cybersecurity security attacks in the last twelve months so. There's literally one report to authorities in Australia Onside Neuron every ten minutes. So it really is becoming crazy, and if you think about why that is is just because of the incredible exponential growth in data. And just how much goes on in the Internet minute you you know you can probably got a really interesting psycho visual capitalist. Great. I, love visual capitalist. They do a thing called one internet minute, and in one internet minute that consumption of data that the world consumes is truly staggering. So I looked at two thousand nineteen numbers was something like it was four million search queries on Google, every minute four and a half million videos viewed two. Hundred million email sent, and here's a good one one point four, million swats, tinder permits in the world. So so the thing is with all that data with all the sensitive information that companies and individuals are putting onto the Internet. So to comes the opportunity if cybercriminals to profit from that end to hack into various networks to hack into people's private information to sell on the dot web, all sorts of things, and that is why L. View. It's probably one of the technologies sectors, most important secular growth themes actually, and in that regard, a pretty interesting investment opportunity and the way I think about it personally is available at the foundations of a house. If technology is a big big house that's being built, you can't really have a house without those foundations. Cyber security is a threshold to technology. So the more technology is the more security there is, but unlike the foundations of the house of we're currently sitting in right now where you don't have to do anything about them ever again, these foundations have to be buttressed and improved all. The time and that involves spending and that involves cybersecurity spending, and that's why we really liked it as if we can take that analogy to have to get pissed control and to stop the termites coming into all timber houses like this that is perfect. Exactly right and you got to do it every year and the termites might become a lot stronger and bigger maybe start being able to buy through not only would but still, and then when you bring in some brand new piece of timber going to work out how to break into that timber. So I, think it's a great analogy dealers. Is An online portfolio tracking tool that automatically records trades dividends. Distributions Hen gives you the reporting tools you need to help you manage your portfolio. Share side has played to extend special offer to listeners of this podcast formats free on an annual premium plan gotTA SHAKE DOT com slash shares for beginners and sign up now for a free trial. Before taking advantage of four free months, it'll help you save money a textile improve your investing decisions. That's share saw dot com slash shares for beginners. I think it's a good idea to turn the tables and ask you a question to end. We thought we'd go do the true or false game. So what I'm GonNa do is talk about three different hacks and asked whether they're true or false. Okay. So the first one is hackers sent out twitter. It's from the account of Barack Obama Joe Biden Michael Bloomberg Tech Billionaires Amazon. CEO Jeff Bezos Bill Gates a Tesla CEO Elon Musk and those tweets were sent out on twitter of course, and they offered to send two thousand dollars for every one thousand dollars sent to an anonymous. Bitcoin address and that particular hack scammed people globally out of around about at least one hundred, thousand dollars if not more and there was a seventeen year old person in Florida cues as the hacker true or false I think I've heard the story and I think it's true and it is absolutely true. It was such an embarrassment for all those joins was it is indeed true and in fact, it was actually only in July this year. So it was very recent. That's one of three. The second one is another one I'll read out which is associated with BP the very large oil company. So hackers infiltrated BP's computer system which regulates pricing at their petrol stations around Australia and the world and in Australia for six hours, petrol was priced at one cent Alita and so that cost over ten million dollars lost revenue before was fixing prices stabilized true false, such a good story I wanted to be true. Let's say false and you're right it is false but you can see how it could happen quite easily and sometimes I'll just interrupt here because sometimes some of these attacks are purely malicious. They're not actually from making money at all they just two hundred percent create Mr Indeed indeed, and we can talk through sort of very high level type of. Attack they're up at. That's right. So but anyway, the game give your four Max hopefully is one associated with the FBI. So the FBI was hacked by fifteen year old boy in the US who released hold of information about every undercover FBI officer in the Hall of USA and the was released onto what's known as doc web, which is a place where shady characters are able to buy and sell information and more than information. So the most secure system in the whole of the US government was vulnerable to a rank amateur hackers and that as a whole lot of eyebrows for the FBI true or false, you've wanted to be false. But I'm thinking it's true. It is indeed true. It happened in two thousand sixteen and just an incredible embarrassing situation for the FBI. So well, one hundred percent but those the some of the things that. That we've seen around the world and obviously it's so many more were you believe that there's a lack of exposure tick -nology in cybersecurity and local markets? Well, it's really comes down to the relative immaturity of the Australian technology sector, which as I said, before is growing and we're really proud of being able to offer sort of each yesterday gives you exposure to the technology sector, but it's still honestly very small compared to far more established markets such as the US. Japan Israel as well. So Australian investors therefore don't have many options for. Getting investment to things like the the security sector that just simply on not any large security companies. In fact, there's almost no pure play cyber security firms listed on the ASX, and in fact, as it turns out, the whole technology sector only makes up three percent of the six two hundred better the June. So it's very small and you can imagine that sob security is only one part of technology. So for that to be a significant part of the Australian experience from an investor perspective is. Very low. So so that's why being able to access an easy simple way to get an all in one, the matic exposure to cyber security like a share on the ASX has resonated quite so well, there's no tax adleman bud neither saw that that would be my answer to that. It was just interesting when the State Mab who are referred to before brought up the heck atf how much interest that Ghana dumb and truly people were really interested here so much more of heavy coming in. Absolutely now because it is one of those things that once you hear about it makes turtle an absolute sense not that we're recommending anyone by it, but we're just. But if one has to think through what are some truly and I do use the word secular growth thematics as an investor, there are a number of them, but cybersecurity must feature as something that it would be very hard for anyone to argue, would not grow and we do have some pronounced forecast with thinking about what those actual numbers look like as well as. Security spending. So it's not just pie in the sky. It's fairly obvious that he is going to grow What is secular growth? So that's an interesting term. Yes. I've used that a few times. If you'd asked me, it's really growth that is essentially fundamental to the growth of our world. So it is a it's a it's a growth theme that does not necessarily require some -ality to grow. So obviously at the moment with seen tremendous. Growth in let's say the delivery of alcohol because people locked down and in Melbourne maybe Sydney in the future who knows and one way to release themselves for getting alcohol delivery. That is something that has happened due to an exogenous event or do you an external event a secular growth theme is something that would happen. No matter what and that we believe is one security isn't as others you can think about as well. So cloud computing. It's another one just general growth of technology. Of course, itself is the move towards ethical investing and the move towards clean technologies. Another thing that is happening, do us in secular way. So that's probably a little bit of a complex were what are really mean to say it's just a fundamental growth the component of the we can't get in the way of it. It's GonNa buy you down if you don't get get involved with exactly. So is actively managed or it's passive. It is passive most of funds of got sixty five most of them up passively managed to actually have some actively manage ETF's but this is passively managed and that means that track an existing cyber security index, and in this case we I am to track the what's known as the NASDAQ CTA Cyber Security Index, and so that is a Nasdaq is a company that that produces and publishes this index, and essentially the index tries to give you exposure to companies of a certain size. They have to be lower than two hundred and fifty million US dollars. So that's not a complete start up not north at a huge business. So. CISCO WOULD HAVE A fifty billion dollar market cap to give your sense. So two hundred and fifty million us is actually relatively small. So therefore, this index aims to provide exposure to companies both large and small, but the key thing is that they need to be pure play cybersecurity companies. So the C. Ta the CGI index is what's known as the consumer. Technology Association some of your listeners may have heard about this very large show in the US in Las Vegas called the Consumer Technology Association. So the CPI show us to because and. That's where all companies around the world come and bring their amazing technologies. So that's the seat, but they're also a standard setter for US technology. So they basically look through every technology company in the world and determine whether one is A. Company that primarily makes money from cybersecurity. It's very important for us when we bring up these types of products just thinking about our own process that when we say that something is a cybersecurity company, it really gives you exposure to cyber security. 'cause you would hate to be in a situation security spending rises, and the companies are not affected by that in any meaningful way. So the fact that we have one of the leading organizations in the world of technology. Denoting something as it is a cybersecurity company not is very important. So they are denoted to be a cybersecurity company that have to be lodged in two hundred and fifty million dollars. And they can be anywhere around the world and at the moment, this forty-three companies that are in that index and the product I am subtract that index because that's really important with ats that the magic that they're talking about is actually reflected in the companies that are being invested in amount by have heard their criticisms of robotics, companies that a lot of companies that might be in a particular fund. and. Not, really robotics companies that happened to US robotics. That's right. You really to make sure that the ETF goes beyond the little. The label that it says actually gives you exposure theme. We are razor sharp focus on that issue it's really important to us. Let's hear about the of the fund yet. So that fund was launched about four years ago in August two, thousand, sixteen, I'm happy to say that just with the growth of Cybersecurity, the performance has been very, very strong. So if we look for example at the performance since inception of which is about four years ago that that has returned around about twenty twenty, one percent per year. So that's a very significant. Performance now in that period and that's right up until today isn't it? So the Nasdaq at all time highs today and that is that is that's helped this title win it's definitely secular tailwinds is that's right. So just put that twenty percent in context of the US market the S&P Five, hundred in that same period is up fifteen percents. So it's done five percent more than the US market and it's done fourteen percent more than the ASX two hundred. So very significant outperformance. So in that period six return about seven percent a year hack returned twenty percent a year and the S. and P. Five, hundred, fifteen, percent a year. So it's been a pretty handy out before. The stave map who I mentioned at the beginning of this episode, we're talking about half the other day and he was talking about some very large distributions over the last couple of years, and he just wanted to me to ask you is that a sustainable thing and why there's such large interview distributions from the city if it's a great question and it's very important to address that so. First of all I don't think that anyone who should be looking to invest in technology investing or growth-oriented investing should be focused on on income. Start another in stock. So what does that mean? What does the distribution mean? The distribution is in ETF land because we have to because the ATF is what's known as a trust we have to make sure that if you have any gains of the financial year, we have to pay that out to investors. Those guys can either come from income that. We receive which we pay out obviously the semi annually or quarterly as the case may be right? Yes. But they can come from capital gains and so what happened in the financial year two, thousand and twenty that's just ended is that the underlying portfolio had a very, very strong capital growth and so when we then rebalance the portfolio which we do every. Every six months. So what rebalancing means is we look at the index again and make sure that I eight. Is, tracking new companies that are coming in or selling all companies are no longer as big. All have dropped Alabi Index. When that happened, we sold companies that have very large gains and those guys with distributed as gifts to investors. So that will not always be the case moving forward and I certainly don't think it's the expectation that somebody should have. You should be looking at that total return figure, which is largely driven by capital in the case of the hack ETF and what are the fees. Are Sixty seven basis points that are very technical word which I hate to use, which means point six, seven, percent a year and point six, seven, percent a year or to sixty seven dollars for every ten thousand dollars to invest per year or six seventy, thousand dollars you invest per year. So significantly lower than an actively managed fund, which typically will charge one. Point five percent of sites more than half of that sort of fate. Yeah. Okay. So with ATF's, that's a useful way of providing diversification that's providing diversification across different sectors and also different countries and different different exchanges. What are you telling kids about investing in had to make sense of it but I'm certainly putting all of the kids money into ETF SAM definitely was. Eating your own dog food on telling kids that they're a little bit young one my my eight year old might be starting to think about money but the other two, a very, very young but they. What I'm telling anybody who wants to listen is to focus a lot on being diversified to make sure that you have very low cost in your portfolio is because it goes really one of the things you can. You can actually control you can't really control the market. Check, Bogle Line isn't it Jack Bogle and to make sure you're focusing on fees making sure you invest in some that you understand not only that of course you understand the way in which you're investing but also the companies you invested in at least be able to put down your heart and say Yeah I actually think Saab security is something interesting invested in that I think it's really important from an engagement perspective as well as actually just making sure you know what you don't Tell them to make sure they understand you're doing but also to make sure the portfolios right for your age. So the person with a fifty year period between now and retirement really shouldn't be focusing income. They should be focusing on capital growth that should be focusing on getting exposure away from Australia and making sure that they don't have too much portfolio and cash. It's very easy to get invested in cash, but the truth. Is that over time volatility is high in the market, but it does provide a very handy source of return over many many years which those types of people have to invest on the other hand. If you've less time than you have to de risk your earlier and sound investing and other types of assets, not just shares. So really it's a combination of diversifying very low cost core exposures and then when it comes to picking. Single stocks awesome that you find a bit more exciting, sexy. That's great and I think it's really interesting but maybe done do it for the whole deal put failure many keep keep that into what we call satellite investing and invest in that way. is probably a much better way to go for the vast majority of investors and. Also, a great way for investing in different asset classes as well. People don't understand that there's different s classes and a financial adviser will advise you to be in. Different asset classes are there any of those bonds or things that are provided in your? Yeah. Now we've got we've got a whole range of product at sixty five products and they actually cover all the asset classes. So we've spoken today about global shares a lot, but we actually have a strategy and shares ETF's including the lowest cost strategy inches ETF. There is which is called a two hundred. We have a range of fixed income products, but global and. And Destroy Alien Fixed. INCOME PRODUCTS WE HAVE CASH ETF if we even got exposure to cold. which is something that's been very popular in this recent turmoil. Is a number of ways you can diversify portfolio with ats from ourselves and our and our around each year managers in. Australia. Thank you very much for coming in today land. It's been great meeting with you. Thank you. It's been great to be here, Phil Thankfully. The company and August has contributed to the costs associated with producing this episode of shares for beginners. schist begins his for information and educational purposes. Only it is Financial Boston you shouldn't buy sell any investments based on what you've heard an opinion commentary. The view of the speaker shades for beginning this podcast replace provisional advise providing additional financial made circumstances current situation. Thanks to Christopher soukous for music production with that special greg malicious fly remember musical wise flows even when the money went.

ETF US ATF Australia Sydney ASX Cisco China Google FBI Phil I Samsung Israel CEO Boston Consulting Group University of New South Wales
Janine Garner, How to Unleash Your Inner Brilliance - InnovaBuzz 327

InnovaBuzz

1:04:45 hr | 11 months ago

Janine Garner, How to Unleash Your Inner Brilliance - InnovaBuzz 327

"Welcome to the INOVA bus podcast with L.. Job is to help you don't visibility P- professional credibility and connection with your ideal client. Why Pudding human at the center of Innovative Marketing? So you can build and strengthen and engaging enduring relationship with your clients. On, European straps from his and honored that you're here with me. If you haven't joined our wonderful marketing transformation community. Go to. See and collect your free gift as well. I, do subscribe to the show and also Labor review because it helps Abbas find so. Let's get into today's master masterclass on this. PODCAST. You have everything you need in the onto full head and mind body of yours, our skills and all of the capabilities on all of thinking that you made to be brand within your means exist already the ideas and the innovations you need to take your business the future you just gotTa, be Brian Enough to unlock it, and your business in an entirety exists while at next move is but all of it requires you to slide down. It requires you to get out of your way and ultimately understand that the only enemy that exists is the enemy within, and if he can all enemy within the world, is your voice to the opportunity to live and laid a successful brilliant and feeling life is, is all left the taking you've got your own way and pushed enemy within Tibet? Welcome back I. Hope you've had an awesome week so far. If you haven't yet listened to our recent conversations with Rob Thomas the founder of networking in diners and create a of the lean startup movement Steve Blank then do check them out but. Wait until you've listened to this episode I. I'm really excited to have on the inevitable podcasters, my guest today, Janine Ghana she's the best selling author of it's you know from me to we and her lightest. The brilliant had a lead, a life of influence. Over. The past two decades decades Janine has worked with thousands of high profile leaders and helped countless of Australia's top fifty s X. that's the Australian stock. Exchange companies and multinationals Janine is a global thought later on powerful networking on collaboration and on leadership she's passionate about helping high performing ladies and teams and bringing brilliant people together to achieve remarkable results. In our discussion today Janine. Talk to me about how we all already have everything within us to be brilliant. We just need to be brave enough to unleash it. We about reframing by asking what problem is it that I solve. And we talked about curiosity outside of our comfort zone and connecting the. Without further ado, let's fly into the hive and get the buzz from Janine. Ghana. Hi I'm your host Jurgen Strauss from over Biz and I'm really excited to welcome to the another buzz podcast today from Sydney Australia Janine Ghana who's one of Australia's leading experts on networking on transformational leadership and collaboration, and she's also bestselling author and just nee deep in her new Book Bay Brilliant how delayed life of influence, which has actually just launched and it follows her previous books. It's who you know and from May to way Giannini's also host of the unleashing brilliant podcast. Welcome to the another bus podcast nine zero privileged is my guest. It's an Asu honor to be hit. Thanks having me on your show is. Oscar Bali who was a guest on episode one, hundred, Sixty, eight of the in other buzz podcast introduces suggested that we have a conversation with you Janine. So big hello to Oscar data is a gorgeous. He is send a think he listens in from time to time I know he's a big big. Fan of listening he's He's passionate about creating is one billion I. Think Vision is one billion listeners in the world. Yeah. Yeah. He's his his exceptional. The Gosh I think we could all listen a little bit deeper in terms of how we do work in impact on making. Your obsession as you call it with is working with leaders and companies to unlock their brilliant performance, and that's the topic of of your latest books. I'm really keen on exploring that in some more depth you've had twenty years experience in Kinda Marketing. Rosen. In Strategic Business Rose for some very high profile brands like Ralph Lauren and our atone you've got an nine a few I'm curious how did you of might that transition from that marketing and strategy into the people and leadership networking Kanda field. US That's a great question. I often look by you're GONNA go. Gosh. How did I end up here? This is fascinating. Isn't when you start at a new, have a dream as what you want to be common. You end up somewhere Hannah, did I get here I? Guess Looking back. I've always had a fascination with people. You know I'm a I'm a north of England go was brought up on a farm. My Dad had a a poultry farm in a mock stolen from a young age. Ideas go with him to work markets stole on a Saturday and get engaged with customers, encouraging them to buy not just off the dozen eggs. But let's a dozen eggs like constantly curious remember by than being here is about people in connection stories and then pretty much led me into a career market thing I'm very games is few will around and how do you encourage people to buy something how you tap into the need the problems In had can stop product with that need to dry sales whether it be a part of this thing around the ever light. Ralph Lauren or whether it being new products that I was lucky enough to offer intensive selling. So the brand took into Asia into Hong Kong when I looked after a citizen watch France, we actually launched citizen health care brand, which is also moments his blood pressure machines. So again, it's Hattie tonight those two and then When I came to straight arrived in a straighter at the age of twenty nine. Thousand nine working can't how old I am. But I you know at that time I arrived in the country where. I absolutely need. No want say I had to rebuild a network I had to find a career 'cause. I came here literally just with a backpack permanent residency and I had to rebuild a career in a country are had noted social proof and then obviously rebuilding stream and so that gave me this this really interesting insight into the power connection and a half when you build connections either time incredible things happen. Over the course of my career, I think I've just got sal obsessed at what is the tipping point between those that do a K. on is not brilliant performance and that's end lead. To I mean getting really curious about myself. So at the age of Oh, my Gosh Foodie I think it was I decided to leave. Cool. And build my own business, and again, that was out of this sense of curiosity connection I was. Really fascinated at how when we connect with like minded thinkers, that will stretches that will encourages that will collaborate with a dream of mutual success I. Truly believe we achieve more. I proved that through that business and three that started meeting Simon leaders, which leads washes unleashing brilliant podcast gained twice blow the stories and all of this has has led to the IP I'm that has been developed over the last eight years is in of my work rank collaboration, and we collaborate effectively unsuccessfully Howie play on edge to find the opportunity. Then the power network yourself with group of people to help you succeed in. That is most recent piece working A. Around actually, how do we connect with ourselves in terms of who we are, who we all being hero, we won't become so that we communicate and influence slow. So I think looking back into as your question European I just have this obsession for as long as I can remember with people and what is it that helps them step full wasn't a chief mall and also what is the stock the case in stock and believing that icon actually achieve that drains? What is that tipping point? Yeah it's fascinating. Is Note I There's something you said in your book and I say, you just reminded me of it there and that's I think that's a fundamental principle underlying that whole kind of performance aspect and that's you know who do we WANNA BE Who are we being in? Who Do we want to be and who can we be and you talk about the idea of where the where a human being or a human doing her right? And so must us kind of work where could I and we work on tasks and some people are organized to the extent that I have listed they worked but they still just doing doing doing and Assad of the big picture all lose sight of what they want to be, what I want to be or what they want to become. Yeah. I mean I think. You know pre covid heating and even now I it was almost like I. Think I. also said in the book where at risk of becoming. The. Roy Robots off humanity and let going through law. Conforming, even thinking and operating in our living in our leading launching businesses, our driving says like we're being come quite robotic. My challenge to everyone is that we actually have potential to be come his extraordinary humans as incredible potential if we can unlock our and brilliance, and if we can learn to connection collaborate in the right way without fear of showing awful cells with worrying about making mistakes but actually truly appreciate not the only thing we can ever control. Right. He'll right now is ourselves, and as you are, who are we who are we being every single day? The impact we all have will making an ultimately what is it that we want to be on owning those dreams again because? One of the things I'm from from all the interviews research I've done over the years is that is that do achieve a night different your aunt and I have the same ups. I have the same challenges that like himself belief at times the warrior by Imposter Syndrome but they've worked out way all nice dampening the negative and going forward anyway and what I saying what I do is I many people get stock. They don't think that good enough. They worry about challenging the norm and doing things different and it's it's literally the tipping point. Is this the self belief this vision today more this this desire his hunger to pursue dreams and following that almost relentlessly Leslie is where the difference happens. I really like in the book how you lay out. Very simple grids with a bunch of questions to get to to do some. So to get me I found a made to do some self reflection in a way that was kind of no judgment. No No this is really hard or anything like that. It was really just okay. Answer those questions and then start to think about. Those answers and what that means for me what do you think it's so hard for us. All really kind of be more self aware and do that self reflection in a way that. That helps us understand ourselves more and helps us understand you know strengths more and what we can contribute to. The, the overall. World. I, think I think. Way I. Think we get busy. I think life takes you up I. Think we get hooked into a system of relentless stuff off success what we should do, and we let other people and things control our time calendars. What we do, and at some point way push back at some point we start questioning is this is it is the older I want to do all. We saw questioning the dreams that we haven't and the COULDA Shoulda WOULDA. In and to me, I, think in the world around us a novel than ever it's moving quickly slide. In this, we are willing to she's just going through live trying to grab a hold of stuff. You know we acquire stuff and yet was still unhappy. We acquired skills, and yet we still got when gooding often we are require we acquire connections particularly with social media and yet we still feeling disconnected and the only thing that we can have a have control ourselves but we've forgotten to take that time to just reflect to percolate to consider to actually guy is is, is this where I wanna be Not taking any of the Action WanNa take all is this behavior how I want to be seen in if not correcting it United States way get over to talk about the barriers to Britain's again is two types of barriers Wani's fatigue. So we get fighting with being busy were exhausted. He keeps a stock. Why would you haven't got the energy to do anything anyway where facts he'd with being stretched in multiple directions I left fighting with a significant amount of choice in not only the choice as to what we do. But even when we make a decision, we doubt in question the decisions leave Leading site in fact, he gets in the way. And the other thing that gets in the way of our brands. And was perceiving dreams as this epidemic blame artists that has gone on What we ends on all of these as we end to the triangle of Blaine, were the detracting to something else as to the reason, we are not achieving what it is that we want to achieve all. We deflect to someone else and their fault that when not achieving what we want to achieve or at worst we become defeatist on our fault we beat ourselves up because we think we're good enough. We wallow in imperfections in our limitations like a self belief and all do this we either struggle from. Entering into the tribal blame always suffer from fatigue or west. It's the two of them. Now, there is no way of moving forward with any of those things because they just keep still. I just keep a stock and keep us in this place off Coulda, Shoulda woulda and my challenge in in the my reasonable be brilliant is in I won't. It's the choice you have to take ownership you have to understand that brings is a choice. Ratings is a practice I'm brilliance is a discipline and no, one can do it for you absolutely need support. Absolutely you need a network absolutely all that stuff, but fundamentally, it starts and ends with. Here you WANNA be. Who you want to become an earning those dreams, owning your expertise, owning that product the against market with owning your business and taking Amri things so that you can step forward. If we don't take it's always somebody or something. Else's fault as to a lack of progress on that results in status choir in a lack of momentum, it just results in. Initiative innovation. I mean we talked. At the beginning before we started recording, we're talking about curiosity and a lock in the book that had you know one of the things you point out is. Take ownership but you you'll. Save yourself up for these other things if you do get stuck in that triangle for wall and I think one of the really good questions there is. I'm curious why feeling the while I'm feeling right now I'm curious why my stuck in this so and again it's that self reflection bid is nut. So how'd you kinda tight that and move out of that by using that curiosity frame if you like, yes lie sci-fi tight days less few ways away experiencing as A. As, glory on World Sky, the realities union right now that are three in massive mcrrae challenges that will will try to navigate the economic challenge, the health challenge, and the social challenges whether it be a rice gender what we haven't yet seen as impact poverty and the social dynamics that come on the reality, all of this stuff going on and in it. We are all trying to look after cells, families, or communities businesses, whatever nays at probably three weeks into the first stage lockdown hyun strata. Had this aiming of massive anxiety of incredible sadness what was going on in the world of panic as where I was going to evolve what I was going to because like many of your listeners. Business tanks. Being less lost income was being deferred and and I went into all of his probably have done at some point blaming the situation. And getting quite sort of angry and anxious about it. I realized what I do is when I feel that I time and you're gonna I, think he's a really is as simple as taking that time to take either sheets reflecting Gar. What can I control here right now, how am I feeling what? What is it about? What's going on this driving my behavior? So what I realized? You know all of us have a particular hung. That will drive us and there are one of three Hungary's that we are all driven by. So you're either driven by a made for power, which is a need for control on a sensitive agency. All your driven by a need for eager, which is needs to be. Have the answers on to be the smartest oil driven by need of intimacy, which is a need to be liked. and. Every single one of those Yagan curious twitchell's as but every single one of us has one of the is is our primary driver now on reflection when I what I do and reflect time journal, Election Medicine and I'll just go was my part playing this. What am I initiated he? What am I doing How can I take it in this situation? What I realized in myself is my primary driver is actually How is is sense of control, a sense of nine what's happening and if you look at my career, my life, my business is always plans always a nice day plans to your plans. The Big Vision plan a project working on this month next month cetera on Sunday had all been wiped away. So suddenly had lost control and that was what was fueling my anxiety. So I went as three, my journey meditation can I? Get Back in control. Realizing that I had to surrender to the biggest stuff and actually go the I can control my relationship with my clients, the work, an output that I do every single day and actually my habits and my plan each week to get me back contract and so taking ownership. I. Could've sat and being in Blaine mode of the environment situation the government politics, the world etcetera etcetera. Oregon. What can I control right now and to me that is what we Have to do we have to take the time out to slide down to reflect to percolates and to go ahead? Do I take ownership in this and everything requires us to do that whether it be your business whether it be negotiation whether it be in conflict whether it be a mistake that you made a failure soon as we take ownership of part in it, it actually in palaces to might next decision and that fundamentally is what we will need to. Like that's a great example. I'm a big believer in Tony. Robbins is six core human needs, and so you know if you think about two of those a certainty and variety and they're a little bit at odds because variety can at the extremists uncertainty and of course. The need for certainty. I kinda vanished in in a couple of days with this pandemic suddenly landing in Australia. and. The impact that had on businesses win when the government shutdown. All in person meetings, and of course, the other Bitcoin is the the need for connection and that nature connection suddenly wasn't being met through. You know what most of us probably made that with a Nets face-to-face meetings with? Friends Family Business Associates customers? Supplies. And over sudden that was disappeared to, and so all of a sudden that whole you know the the coronated sing had shifted to a point where if you didn't take some action and sidewalk I am I made that night now. In a different way and also in A. In a why that serves me rather than. Carnivores self-pity because if you go into self pity either probably can make the need for certainty. which which is the ownership as a game quite interesting like Zidane you Mac will happen if you whether it'd be tied Robinson Stoffel as Hungary or even maslow's hierarchy needs. Into survival mode. zoll toilet roll gates than. About. On his life. Safety piece is end and actually the third level of belonging of Maslow's hierarchy of needs is longing and as much as people would connecting. Online. There's a difference between what I call a transactional connecting that transformational connecting that rainy day. Staff and I think what we've seen. In a lot of disconnection which all of us are having to replace with connection. The live from work has become very fractured and we've got to somehow get a level of clarity ramlet still different levels of fear and anxiety is going go on for a while and I slept all of us to try and find a sense of calm in that to be able to navigate through A. Night. It's all my slide mammal than ever. The will that wearing as requiring us to being will curious. exploring the inches of possibility. It's requiring his connect more when I took back in action it's not just people but is connecting the dots skills of talent over opportunity of capability and people to find collaborative opera changes that connectedness inability to sense Mike is important. Is asking asking us to trust our intuition more than ever is now we've never been here before, and so we have all the answers and say more than ever. We absolutely again a have to research in question and try and get the by competitors. But at the end of the day, whatever we do from here, almost his whole New Territories are going to have to trust on Jewish in and the final thing is inspired of this. Because if nothing else is a shame as that that teams the people around a lot clients supplies or want to have a vision sense of hyper direction as is up to Austin spy on the people to follow that and and if you think about as comes set. TO BE CURIOUS TO CONNECT to trust intuition to inspire even the thought of that is quite overwhelming and I got. The only thing that you have to, if you earn yourself, he'd got to become more bringing you've got to become. Human of extraordinary potential up because I'm the taking any meaningful, whatever it may be required you to be exceptional and if you are anyway in yourself, if you are anyway beating yourself up about what you dine have, you are anyway blaming the people for your lack of progress than you just end up in stocks lavars to tap into what we've already gone odds unleashing that brilliance because the more we do that for us sounds the more we create opportunities, the people around us. In all wheels to become Brian to and isn't that what we need in this world, this world is driving change. This today's industries that won't newness innovation in communities that are asking me questions and actually all of us to your point you're wanting data connection, real connection and a sense of mainly associated with not. I think it matters whether you're in a people training by business lot myself with your own products, business with your expanding into new markets that basic need. Is What we will need right now and they need you individually to step up over know certainly I'm in one of my big passions is making marketing human again in this world where technology seems to have. Taken out from his is some wonderful technology that can be used and can help us in marketing in other. Aspects of skyline human interactions but unfortunately, a lot of people kind of. What's the right word I outsource the relationship building thing to the technology or they abandon to the technology? Businesses always been about people. Glorious needs a little bit and I think he's. In I lots of people ran about this as technology enabler and yes, it is what we think about it is to create the difference idea believes that now more than our ability to sink. Is Competitive Advantage is the only thing you can find on Google on Wikipedia is what you think and took On the space the time to actually think and the thinking is much. Yeah, and I'd I'd be more specific than that. In fact I you said earlier about curiosity and then connecting the dots. I think the building, those connections and drawing inspiration from people in other industries or from ideas all things that are going on in other industries and connecting those dots to what's in your sphere. And cure writing that in providing that wisdom to your community I think that's where. The knowledge can be really powerful. Yes, it's all side because again, that's why I totally agree because I think the diversity y'all sinking of ideas of experience the backgrounds of cultural heritage with in industry is why the answer. But again, it provides a massive human challenge because it nays all of us to be prepared. To head off unconscious beliefs and judgments challenged rewired because. This is where this whole. There's a whole chapter in the book about this Judgment Pace because all of his brings stuff to the table. So we can go into. Let's come. Right. Let's work together. And we all come in thinking my work. But all of. Our baggage bring with it. The voices in our head are unconscious belief systems are conscious thoughts. And this is where I we've. We've actually got to be even braver because you're going to be prepared to leave that behind. And be prepared to be recharged on what you think, and this is the tipping point. We told you that innovation about looking through new answers on new is to mock it. The thing that gets in the way off cells and our existing predetermined judgment and willingness how mind which is easy to say the for so many of hockey. So on and there's a lot. To unpack. I was going to. Ask you to elaborate a little bit on the full off of Brilliance, which is how you kind of lay out the book and one of the things that. Struck me and certainly resonates with me because you mentioned earlier. Yeah the the way. Tired and but we're doing one more thing always taking one more course or getting one more person on board and and cycle when when all is happens then then we're ready than we can do whatever it is where I'm going to do that. You're pointing out the starting point really is that you've got everything you need right now. You have everything inside you that you need right now. So in a lane India brilliance. And, then you go into law net for those four lows. Four steps are, can you Kinda give us a bit of a high level snapshot over. Side just enough. To get. To read the book. I introduce a follows of brilliance in my latest bill. Brand on these pretty notch. These came off the Bible as interviews. All of the research I, did why they fool key traits kept coming out every single into the hat. And then I also I've laid those trice on my current on all my gosh, this this is this is real. They traits continuous inside the full laws are all of that starting at building your own in confidence and self belief because unless you have connected with yourself, it's impossible to bring your whole self into Harry connect and lead. So, low number one is all about being you an owning your spotlight and essentially law number one is about. Building your self belief and building up your. Visibility out there in the marketplace quit the hiding, quit the keeping slow on, actually bring on the standing in your spotlight and letting people see who you are what your expertise is on what your vision for the future I. so that's number one law number two is then about are you ready and a low number two is essential about harnessing your energy because I see too many people who have very Klay Vision. You probably say in your work to Yoga, GonNa got this vision this plan, but they work themselves to the Biron and they are literally. Like Roy boss that killing themselves from the inside exhausted. Eventually, what happens is that division just disappeared three sheer exhaustion. So low number two is all about harnessing your energy and dotting the right habits and behaviors to ensure that you are time rich and surviving but as Time poll and as retirement and thriving those his time poor and surviving more number three then is a bad I kinda is time to me from this of me into the inclusive collaborative spaces way along the threes about being together and connecting with intent. Nor one can be successful around. It's impossible. Sorry more threes all about how do you engage bets are have you build a network of incredible support around you I? Outlines the critical people I believe you need to have in your network and then finally? Learning. How to collaborate more effectively to lock ideas, and finally before is around magnifying your impacts. This is where we saw leading resumes keeping our days to ourselves on its way consistently a walking the walk amplifying own vision. And Business and careers and beliefs, but also I. The people round US around us now that not necessarily in the book he alluded to earlier. I've introduced to ice little self assessment of self awareness because you will never be perfect all of them all the time. There is always one low that needs you'll focus, and this is why I written this book intentionally as a way of picking up checking in my sky, what do I need to excel? Now remember at the beginning of business being brand is a choice. It's also a practice at as very much disciplines much like trying to run a marathon oil learning extra one handed press up letting has yoga it is through the mastery in the continual. Evolution. And reflection that you become better. It was as Edmund Hillary that said, it's not the mansion we must come. At actually cells and I xactly while becoming rule Britain is all of our going to call ourselves continually checking on cells and continuously be brave enough courageous. Enough. Curious enough to looking at us what we need to do better differently tomorrow to become a better person entrepreneur, a leader that Byzantine And to help others shine even brighter to. Yeah. I really love that quote from Edmund Hillary I'd kind of forgotten about it for a long time until he popped up in your book again, and one of the things I'm not sure whether it was in that same section because his just you've just prompted. Prompted this in my mind is thought, but it was something that I read it also at all while planet that was me and it was this belief that and and I think. When you're in the corporate will in particular, this must be really strong and widespread disbelief that if I do a good job. Everything will come towards me so I'll get promoted I'll get pay-rises all get a bigger department more influence whatever whatever my be and the work should speak for itself. Kind of philosophy. What do you think? We have that attitude and and. Kind of serve reluctant to. Talk about what we have to contribute and might people aware of how can perhaps even take on more? I think that's an interesting question and I wonder whether is a generational thing to Saginaw, I grew up very much. Drummed into me. you work 'cause you'll get noticed. Putting the efforts in you get promoted. As when I look at my Lashley, the entire entirety Michael. I put in the long Iowa's I didn't have to down they constantly acts the organizations back can cool. And I almost had to rewind myself to the ladies in my contribution. I'm curious what the answer is that if you seen intensive at next generation through with a nice feel the same or whether it is a generational thing respective I think we're seeing. Industry Cool. Products. Showing as that actually, it's not. It's not always about what you do anymore doesn't guarantee a job for lifetime doesn't anti security and I think when you look at where the world is going right now we gotta get more curious about our contribution, the volume that we're adding and the problems that we are solving versus the job description and the job title I. Think we're GonNa see a masses evolution into more portfolio install Korea's people doing multiple jobs. When solving problems across multiple organizations I think the traditional Corporate Korea structure or growth plan will be challenged and I think. This age where unemployment is on the rise in redundancy is on the rise. The one thing I say to my clients is no one can ever take away your experience knowledge can take away what you have done. What you've experienced the results what you've love is value repackaging it into. AK. Wall problems can I solve walk what problems right now that industry the companies, the leaders of facing can I actually saw his slight refrain this needed Because working hot. Hasn't actually H-. Anyway. They had. Likings Ali is of is that. I got when I think about it is I put in the amount of phone calls. I, took it ridiculous ties of my on the holidays and the phone calls wealth I wasn't holding none of none of it. Yes I climbed the ladder but it was still that he's that she reframing he is not his line now I console his how I can help. I really liked that very frame thinking back to my corporate oprah career, a lot of it. In nearly dies it was very nebulous and then at some point, they always a real push to clarify job descriptions and expectations of people but it was all very transactional and it was all around his a list of the activities that we expect you to do, and so it was all focused on while if I do those activities really well should get noticed and I should get muddied but I think you know the changing that focus on what problems, Kosovan who, who do I solve them for which essentially as a marketing question. And The people is Always, love it. Go to checking on our ninety like the company owns your jaw. But you your career. Again is celery frank companies, always jobs, and as you and I both right depending on what the financial parameters are at the time the company will make the decision on that Joel several us about the job. But you I'm you'll correa and we have to earn that career. We have to earn US skills expertise we have own who had being have to own who we want to be called. Me have to Arnall brands and actually manage our creative tight responsiveness who is not up to the company to manage you caress up to you to manage your career and I think right now that's that's what we all have to remember yourself to individually to manage operational ends that blame triangle. Being. So, reflection again isn't A. More. All right. Well, this has been fabulous, Janina. Just watching the time a little bit here I think it's a good point here to move onto the buzz, which is our innovation, and it's designed to help our audience who are primarily leaders and innovators enif field with some tips from your experience. I've got five questions, and hopefully you'll give us some really soft lances that'll inspire the listener to Gonda something. Awesome today's result. said. What do you think the number one thing is that anyone needs to do to be more innovative. I think I think you. Touched on the is that Curiel Cetane. And here comes from multiple places NASA too many of those all just I in on frame of reference rating stuff. We now about talking to the people in our world staying within industry almost. Lincoln's. I think mammal than ever the place to find innovations you gotta be bragging of Barrio comes design whether that be what you're reading what you're listening to. The people you're hanging out with the staff, the information that you are getting curious about outside curiosity to me is the fundamental thing because the ass. Is. Open is and see them and I cannot isn't hit them and often answers are out of industry out of your existing frame. Yeah. That's That's a great advice in IOM reminded we were some of the work we were doing in our research times into some coatings. We got a lot of inspiration. There was some fabulous inventions that came about studying plant biology and biochemistry, and how plants adapted to their environment, what I did. By way of protecting the surfaces of their lives, for example, from getting dirty and from clogging up the poetry. Breeze the. Carbon dioxide so that their lessons from that where you know if you didn't have the curiosity to wonder how they keep the dust off of that, you couldn't then take that knowledge and applied into a totally different area. As I said. The story in the book. Gregg allman straight host this whole. Back in the ninety S. Gray. Almost is a big children's hospital London. Look, south to very very sick AIDS back in the ninety s at too many children increasing number of children. Were dying from the operating theaters translate into ICU and they go consultant inactive consultant in as you can imagine the British government immediately going off because of the numbers and nobody can find the answer and one night to insurgents watching for you. And? They're watching the the car coming. into the pit stove almost within nanoseconds over the procedures being done on the car on the not causing at hitting the finish line and the surgeons with cure us you went. That's exactly what we do what my transferring children acid into IC- is what they did is they brought in the Formula One the Ferrari pickerel frog career came into the operating theatre Schwartz what was going on and essentially that Iran is way too noisy does not in control everyone's everyone's doing a whole wheat stuffy mess I wonder mistakes happening you made along Pauper's. Pit Stop by the guy that standing there with his clipboard and. He's taking off each process than anyone expected as the lollipop Tehran's will allow the car to drive. That's what you made as many needs, satistics, equivalent of the lollipop. And will taty rights declined, and so in hospitals around the world, the statistics, the equivalent of the Law Paul Person. In Formula One crew, and it's exactly what you've been talking about this ability and broiling to explore outside of the box of what you know is led the answer is off. Love it or I know what's the best thing? You've underdeveloped new ideas? Automate Ramey dusk comes down to exactly that's I research I asked lots of questions I I'm fine. The best in the business and an I think literally just take time out to scribble to journal and to Kanye's that at sinking spice for as long develop my ideas. So whether it'd be taking myself away for few days. With my journal, but it is that get all the information and take myself away in quiet time to sink, and that's usually am I best ideas come from. Yeah you touch on journaling a couple of times in one of the things that. I like also you. is it a fighter journal that you have Because, we touched on a little bit but I just want to emphasize again the. Taking risks and and embracing fire as an opportunity to actually learn rather than as as something that filed. So I'm going to beat myself up because I wasn't successful with that So is that an important part of the process for you? August absolutely, I mean, if you could say on I I, think you'll next question is around favorite retool. Is trying to come up with a really smart idea the semi in what my my favorite is and paper I. Literally, if you could see my desk or I'm sitting on my planning is back she paid the with scribbles download my Brian onto pay and then and only when. John. Guy. Can actually bring slice siphoning. That's exactly how I do It is the journaling the writing the entering the Brian. The boss of scribbles of Models and showing people have been quite interesting pads to not get a perfect Ryan first time. Being prepared to show people on a seventy percent sixty percents seventy five percents get the impact than it writes game two to perfect it to move forward. And I think that's something I've loved mine career actually micro lab perfection But then I took a more leadership positions our willingness to try and fight to try that willingness to file I. Say the the question I'm often asked his where did you file interesting Brian doesn't think fire. His I. It's a learning opportunity. Yeah. Messed up made a whole heap incites but every single mistake I learned something which is contributed to the next phase of my career, my business and I think he's different mindsets So I often yes, that fairly journal write this stuff down and often you'll find me giggling at myself. When my business culture was says there's no such thing as failure it'll feedbacks keeping a journal of I liked the idea of the fighter. Geno 'cause that way. You can kind of keep track of will what what feedback am I getting from this because often these Okay that didn't work. I. Need to do it differently on to try something different but often, NASA Find if you reflect on it, there's a DEEPA. Feedback beyond that, and it's like Calma how was I being when when I did that you know is Like this didn't work on that process didn't work or that idea didn't work but maybe it's actually something. About me how I was being at the time rather than the transactional stuff if you know what I mean. Sleep I think also. As we get older in our careers as we have more experience in that opportunity to reflect on US failures, share those lead people particularly people that you're sloan strangle that you're encouraging. To develop raise is phenomenal. We forget it stuff we forget that twenties thirties or forties, or whatever is where we messed up all we did X. did why and yet in not just for ourselves the other people are incredible learnings I think caught about on civility is to share that stuff with all the people that I can learn to. Or I. Now what's the best way you think to kate by project on track Gosh I have people stay this. I. Take on Sasha entrepreneurial big peaches income. I'm very much big vision rate that I have against something. I leads jarring after. Yeah, I. Create I need people around me to help keep things on track because I am. That stuff. All writing baselessly use online tools you'll slacks and neutralize but I think he's a pass. If bring the humanity piece, it's the bows when you're collaborating getting really cleanable expectations of. Making sure that before you leave a sation. people are clear will add convincing to and making sure you check in the other thing too. Is We never go from A to B? Smoothly Gate Project Planning Tools Rolston and of course, has always milestones to me and our ideals we get from a to Z Nice line with all these ticks ticks crossed don the as By the reality is a big law. Of Change and you get You probably like to get to see as I. Always think that this is why voice last night. Yeah. We've got to have a plan. But. A plan is a framework is not a rule book and I'm a massively, it being a framework model rule book I think. actually Duncan's opportunity to innovate and to Gonzaga change involve by Celeste situation ranging whereas the framework is your ideal but it almost still instills this curiosity and this this opportunity to question Ali on the right track still or should we evolve here? Side the answers your question. I must me as a marketeer what I? That was my approach very. Entrepreneurial markets that sees I guess I k how do we have that? How do we get rounded? Can you tell me? Do this Make has to actually have people keeping me on track. I Love the love, the framework and the structure around that in one of the things because I've been looking at a project planning software. Again, recently, as I do from time to time 'cause, I'm not entirely happy with. Any of them. I'm never satisfied. and. One of the things that I came across again recently was you know these ones have? Gantt Chart. Available to them as an as an engineer from way back, of course, can't shots is something that this plan a project navigate. And Ghana reminded me awhile again, shots kind of it's almost just one-dimensional not even two dimensional and yet like you say that you know the project poss- can be kinda completely three or four dimensional. I. I am. Myself, because I'm remembering a lowly project manager, I had a on a project when I was arson and we were launching a grind website merchandise, Tyson Smith website. And Remote time this project planned meeting in every every week she bring out the jam Shell. Everyone had to pull the Gat shot the can I tell you between Monday in the following Monday in a once look to the gang shaw? all cry but then it would because he was a one dimensional, my brains work like. A house. That will tell you decide there was one time. Doesn't allow my creativity whereas I'm constantly looking at Jesus around trying to find those connection points as Oh, I think he's planning tool to sits the way somebody would some sinks and hence why Project Management Role is actually more complicated than ever isn't a. Fi. Saw It isn't about his feet you're driving the ship versus. Designing point a point Bay bringing all of the different things together to help it altogether that destination and caused the multiple dimensions of not just the word that needs to be done. The personality types I, the work voices on avenue opportunities that gets ready. The problem sites at Hannity not get all of that again Shaw Count. Requiring specific skills. So I think it's more of A. Task. Checking on incorporating the slice to allow full momentum versus getting stock in process who policy and procedure to me as a marketeer. That's that's what I always was Take. Analogy wants to further. It's like the project manager is the caller of the ship rather than the person that drew the map. Leyland absolute. Or I now this is at the crux of one of your roof with what's the best way? What's the number one thing anyone can differentiate themselves The number one thing anyone can do to differentiate themselves is to actually own voice different about them. I think too many of trying to fit in and conform to a job description. All what we think we need to be live as traumatic leads were business markets. And yes, in that conformity lies sinus once we start competing saying we end up competing for price. So the best place differentiate yourself actually arnoux difference on your faultline. Character are on the strength also I call the genius stuff you'd like to hide squashing get rid of the other Julie Stop I on this stuff this memorable games, I, remember seth, Godin because of his glasses miss old head remember ball because of his own losses we remember Donald Trump is crazy. Hey I'm your differences whatever it might be in times of you saying how you look how you behave and stop faking to you make it and Add to that is get very clear on the problem that you're solving get very clear on the value, the you upbringing. So you'll base nice to your role to your clients, not just the job that you do one. Thing. to He being and we'll problem solving. So it's a it's a brief rhyme that been talking about. Slavery. Being, who do you want to become? Really. Clear off. cried. Thanks genetics has been fabulous now and people find out more about you learn about your books and. Find the podcast and also maybe reach out and say thank you for shared today. That will be brilliant. Thank you for asking. So you can find me at my website joining Ghana Dot Com dot au all find me on late tennis Janine Ghana, and the podcast is available on I chain spotify same class and it is unleashing Brits. And you've got some federalists gifts there. I listened to an episode just recently with Nin James who we've had on show two. Now. Do you have a some potting advice for Ellison? Today. Yes I do You have everything you need in the onto full head and mind body of yours are skills and all of the capabilities and all of the thinking that you made to be brand within your teams exist already the ideas and the innovations that you need to take your business into the future. You've just gotTa be Brian Enough to unlock it, and in Your Business, in an entirety exists what next move this, but all of it requires you to slow down. It requires you to get out of your way until ultimately understand that the enemy that exists is the enemy within if he can control enemy within the world, is your choice to the opportunity to live and lead a successful brilliant and fulfilling life is all that for the taking but you've got to get your own way and put an enemy within the. Wonderful Fabulous message. Finally Janine who would you like me to chat with on future of a bus podcast? Oh I like you to talk to. and. I met a fabulous guy recently Co. Ben Frederickson. Met Him he is an ex big full consulting in this. Actually go down and he's now adding some really fascinating stuff in terms of. Innovation piece and the other person I think you should chat to is a guy called Simon Media and e y e. I'm at him many years going. On he changed face off recruitment. Managed to get investment and rebuilt recruitment business based on purpose but he's evolved once again and is I currently, I am running a business compare. which is using Dada to create. A whole purpose that model around employees fit for the future grazing. Very, purposeful, driven, and very much a vast playing different and began in terms of the the new world of thinking. Right well. Sounds like a couple of fascinating people. So I'll get an introduction to Ben and Simon from your own will bring them on the show as well. And that would be great. So thanks so much Janine for sharing your time and your insights are generously today and giving us some more depth insights into the book. Unleashing Brilliance of really enjoyed this I've got to finish reading the book now, and in the meantime I wish you all the best and let's stay in touch. Thank you gonNA absolute pleasure a great conversations King King. A hope you enjoyed that delightful uninspiring conversation with Janine and took something away from her episode. Michael were the question of what problem do I so As. Well as her techniques and questions for rising self awareness. I'd love to know what you took away from Janin's episode live comment below the blog post, which you can find that in other Biz dot co forward slash. Janine Ghana that is Jay in I in E. G. A. R.. N. E. R. All case or one word INOVA BIZ DOT CO forward slash Janine Ghana You'll also find contact information for getting in touch with Janeane as well as links to her website, her books, the unleashing brilliance podcast, and the other resources we spoke about in today's conversation. Janine suggested that we have a conversation with Ben Frederickson found of innovate and grow and Australian Employment Market Expert Simon Mayer on future inova buzzed podcast episodes. So Ben and Simon keep an eye on your in boxes for an invitation from us to the another bus podcast courtesy of Janine Ghana. Turning again to the next episode of the another bus podcast where we've got more fantastic guests lined up including Michael Roderick of small business enterprises and Raw Simmons found Oh. Foundation Marketing. Thanks for listening to this episode. Mike. Sure. You subscribe the show to be reminded of new. Episodes. Strata subscribe. Legal. Review if you like. Even if you don't like him I'm okay with that I'm asking you to leave a review because it helps other people find Charlotte. Gut another Biz, dot Co, two joint and marketing transformation community, an excess of free gift my team, and I might figure it's the marketing Mazda mini class. We want to give you everything. You need to transform your marketing into a Human Senate relationship focus whereas engineer. Until next on on your stress from inequities remember. Be All some and keep innovating. Along.

Janine Ghana US Australia. Ralph Lauren Ghana NASA Blaine Asu Roy Robots Brian Michael Ro Rob Thomas Oscar Bali center of Innovative Marketing INOVA Britain Simon Steve Blank Abbas Tibet
Thursday 25 June

Monocle 24: The Globalist

55:20 min | 1 year ago

Thursday 25 June

"You're listening to the globalist first broadcast on the twenty fifth of June, two thousand and twenty on twenty four, the globalist in association with UBS. Hello this is the globalist broadcasting to you. Live from London I'm Georgina Godwin on the show ahead. Singaporeans will go to the polls on July and in an extraordinary general election, due to the COVID nineteen pandemic, the widely anticipated announcement came earlier this afternoon as President Halley dissolved parliament and issued the writ of election. That's how the biggest story out of Singapore's reported yesterday on Straits times we'll. We'll get more analysis on this shock poll that even the prime minister's brother opposes then to Taiwan long regarded as a tinderbox for global conflict. The country's just made an announcement that will likely provoke. Beijing will ask how offering Hong Kong. Citizens Asylum will play in China plus a leading public health specialist tells us about the attempted British cover up of a report on the disproportionate rate of. Deaths from Corona virus and will mob browse with Chiffon to describe beat whilst channeling a DIVA AS Monaco's Eurovision correspondent. What it was struck at is how it actually reminded me of the Real Eurovision contest very proud of the research team for the film by Your version. Correspondent gives us his take on the net flix film of the event. We'll examine if corona was really just the last overdue nail in the coffin of the cruise industry, and with papers and business news to that's all ahead on the globalist live from London. First a look at what else is happening in the news, Australia's military is sending a thousand troops to Melbourne in an effort to help contain the coronavirus outbreak of a fears of a second wave Qantas will cut at least six thousand jobs as part of its plans to survive the pandemic, and in the US, the governor of New York new, Jersey and Connecticut of announced that visitors from states with high corona virus infection rates must self quarantine for fourteen days on arrival do stay tuned to Monte throughout the day for more on those stories, but first we begin in Singapore where the Prime Minister Lee Sin plunked. Plunked dissolved parliament late on Tuesday and announced plans to hold a snap election on July the tenth many months before they're ju- well. The moves raise concern as the city status still in the middle of the coronavirus, pandemic and smaller parties say that alongside the risk to the health of voters, the disease will make campaigning difficult lease people's action. Party AP has been in power uninterrupted since nineteen, fifty nine, and currently holds eighty. Three of the eighty nine seats Stephania Palmer is the F.. T. Singapore correspondent. She's on the line now. Stephanie. Thanks for joining us. Why has decided to do this? No, he didn't need to. So the prime minister said that essentially he reckons Singapore at the moment has reached a stable phase with regards to the corona virus We have to remember the earlier this year Singapore was praised for seemingly containing the virus, but then was hit with a severe outbreak amongst migrant worker dormitories, which propelled the number of patients to one of the highest in the region. Region, but since then numbers have been coming down, and the lockdown measures has started easing the the easing of these measures have been expanded also last week, so in light of this, he said this was a good moment to hold these elections also because they weren't sure whether the pandemic would be over a before. The term of this government must end next April. He also mentioned ops. It was necessary to hold elections in order to give the government basically a fresh mandate to talk tackled both followed from the coronavirus, which is hitting the economy here very hard at it also to deal with external problems and concerns such as the US presidential elections or the border clashes between India Indian China so what measures will be put in place to ensure that the vote can go ahead without sparking a second wave of infection. So poor has a sets basically that it will be implementing specific safety measures, including a temperature screening or giving voters recommended time slots in order to decrease the voter density up polls, or for instance, also increasing the number of polling stations to not have overcrowding butts. You know some critics, and especially as you mentioned opposition parties still believed that it is dangerous to hold an election up this moment in time. We're obviously There will be an enormous movement of people. And another element of. The plan to hold elections. During this pandemic is stops essentially physical election rallies will not be possible and as a response the Elections Department here, said thoughts. The candidates will be given more television airtime as a result, so they're all suggestions that pasta elections have been waited in the ruling. Party's favor is credible. Well there are several and Joe's and obviously opposition parties that argued that there are structural restrictions. thoughts basically puts the opposition to disadvantage, even during ordinary times, and these include for instance, the fact that the campaigning period is very very short. and there are quite high candidates registration fees It's also a people also sometimes point to the timing of elections. Essentially, the the president of Singapore may dissolve parliament at any time, basically before the end of the of parliament's five-year term on the advice of the prime. Minister so obviously if the ruling party A. B. Basically opposition argues are at an advantage when it comes to the timing of the elections and the announcement of the elections, so the prime minister is brother Lee in young says he's joined the newly founded progress Singapore Party now. The two men embroiled in a longstanding row. What's that all about? Yes so. Essentially Lisa Young, he's the prime minister's estranged. Brother joined the opposition party, however at the party did not disclose whether he would actually stand for elections, but this obviously creates a a lot of Ferrara here in Singapore because the two brothers as well as their sister leeway lean, have been locked into this family feud which I came became public in two thousand, sixteen and basically was triggered. By a dispute over the house of their father, liqun you was also a Singapore's founding, father and first prime minister, so this conflict essentially is once again brought to the surface amid these upcoming elections, so is there any possibility that the status quo will shift in the country is assured of a win, and and who will be leading the government going forward. So the current finance minister, who was also is also the deputy. Prime Minister has been promoted within the PAP to a very senior position. Pointing to the fact, thoughts with a PHP win. He is sort of seen as the likeliest person. To succeed to these young long, so that is figure out is seen as the likeliest person to take on the role if the PEOP- wins honestly, there is not a a lot of expectation for a massive turnaround in terms of the election results I think the general. Understanding or expectation is that the PCP is probably likelier to win but I do think that's the new PS. P parts especially with this. Of Leasing Young joining it's is really shaking up things ahead of this of votes, and definitely stirring up a lot of public debates on the island Stephania. Thanks very much indeed that Stephania Palmer the FTC's Singapore correspondent. The Democratic territory of Taiwan which China claims as its own has offered to eight citizens of Hong Kong who want to flee Beijing's increasingly authoritarian rule Taiwan will ease border restrictions and open an office to help people wanting to leave the Chinese route city. Isabel Hilton is editor of China dialogue and she joins me on the line now. good morning to you Isabelle An. Why is Taiwan offering to help Hong Kong? Is it a deliberate ploy to annoy China as it almost certainly will? Good Question I. Yes, although it's also more than that I, think there's also the genuine fellow feeling, and there has been a synergy between protests in Hong Kong purchase in Taiwan pretty much. Since the umbrella movement, the umbrella movement inspired to Simla. Demonstration favor of democracy in Taiwan and there's a great deal of sympathy and fellow feeling for what people in Hong Kong have been fighting for, so it's done both for internal political reasons, and certainly to send a message to Beijing that that at least somewhere, this idea of democracy in Greater China will be kept alive. So what are the mechanics of it? How will it be achieved? Well there's no asylum law so so they've created a special. Category for Hong Kong people, the office that will assist them will open on July. The first, which is a resonant date because that's the anniversary of the hand over of Hong Kong to China. And by then national security law is expected to be passed in Beijing the national security. Law is being rushed through the People's Congress without actually being published, so the details of the law which have been shown to selected delegates are not publicly available in Hong Kong and won't be until after the lowest published, so there's a great this a high level of anxiety around the anniversary date. Hence I. Think the timing in Taibbi, so they will. A financial assistance there. There's there's going to be a basic income for. For Hong Kong people plus. Assistance with a finding employment for fighting combination general relocation assistance provided by the government There's also some discussion of special schemes for those who wish to invest in Taiwan and for a special talent recruitment programs, so it's a fairly comprehensive assistance to migration. Taiwan's been very successful in controlling corona virus, but nevertheless boarders and allowing people in is a risky move. How did they hope to mitigate any possible damage to the health of the nation while I think that there is a Katie some caution of that and a two week quarantine period will be applied, so people will be able to go to Taiwan, but then we'll be quarantined under the restrictions. We know that many democracies around the world have been a pool that China's treatment of Hong Kong even whilst they do little over China's threats to Taiwan is this move by Taipei lightly to get support from Britain the EU and the US. Up Yes I think quiet support. Taiwan of course Britain, the EU and the US all acknowledge one the one China principle which. Recognizes that Taiwan is part of China's, but at the same time maintain representative offices, so it's this ambivalent ambiguous situation. vis-a-vis Hongkong. That when as and when China move to make life harder for Taiwan which it certainly will I think that the will be some gestures of support puzzlingly. The incoherence of the US policy is is reemerging in this crisis. Because when the national security was first announced, there was a strong reaction from Beijing. And a bill was introduced a to a modifiable. End, the special relationship that Hong Kong has with the United States which gives it certain privileges. However it! It's now reported that the white has has has blocked that bill for now that it's being. Held up by senator who proposed it at the White House request, so it is completely unclear what the United States or at least the administration is now thinking about Hong, Kong and Taiwan, but unfortunately that's rather rather characteristic of trump's approach. I think that as far as the EU and. Britain go! The EU made a pretty strong statement on Hong. Kong off to the bilateral meeting day with China and I I would expect him to support a asylum moves, which is effectively what these are! And Britain of course has offered Hong as. The the right to live in in this country. Made Limited offer, which is that holders of a certain kind of possible, which is not everyone in Hong Kong would be a would be considered for a permanent residents in in Britain, so there were quite a lot of kind of qualifications to that offer, and I think the key thing is that it doesn't really apply to anyone. Who didn't hold such passport or wasn't entitled to One before nine, hundred, ninety seven, and given the use of the bulk of Hong Kong's protesters, certain in the latter phase is quite likely that they would not be included in that category, and they are the most vulnerable at present, if the law comes into force or July first again without knowing what the conditions and and The text of the law is I think a lot of those young protesters who who've already been arrested in the past few months on various occasions, whose names are known whose activities fairly public have reason to be quite concerned, and they would not be eligible under the passport scheme that Britain's offered so tons of take-up. Do we have any idea of the amount of people that may wish to leave Hong Kong. I, think we honestly don't and You know it's very hard to predict. It's also although I'm sure that Beijing will make a lot of fuss about this move in some ways you can see that it will quite suit Beijing to have a protest. Leaders removed from Hong Kong after all their. If they regard them as a source of trouble, then then they could be quite happy to see them. Go but conversely. Conversely you either have been a lot of statements from Hong Kong protesters over the past few months of fighting on towards the end, and I feel very very strongly, so it's it's very difficult to know how many people will will actually take advantage of this offer. I think that they will feel great comforted to know that it's there when you say the end. What do you think and Wendy? Think that slightly to be? I again difficult to no wonder. The most worrying aspects of the law is is how the judges will will interpreted. or at least be allowed to interpretation eat a Hong Kong has prided itself on a system of off law, which is honest and independent and very very different from the mainland. And the suggestion that the chief executive will be allowed to assign judges. Two particular cases has been extremely worrying for for people in Hong Kong. Because that would mean that the chief executive who is clearly you know kind of does Beijing. Spitting could then choose a judge appointed judge to do Beijing's bidding, and that makes an enormous difference to how the law to how much effect the law has on Hong Kong and how it supplied and I guess what we wait to see is what will the protest movement? What tactics? So what options does the protest movement have I think that you know it's up against a very large force. And I think the result is greatly doubt in terms of WHO's likely to win I. Think the question to be considered is how much damage it will do to Hong. Kong in the process, and how many people were simply leave? Not just protesters, but businesses relocating to Singapore experts deciding that things out radio safe in Hong Kong as they were at that may welcome. We just don't know honestly, but I mean that would mean the end really. Really for Hong Kong as a world financial center would well, it would mean it's a highly competitive environment being a world financial center, so it certainly would help I mean that will take you know that would take a long time to play out, but certainly it would be. It might mock a kind of turning point the beginning if you like is if we were to look back, of declining and even now Singapore has has more. International Headquarters registered than a Hong Kong. That is a change Isabel finally. Taiwan's long been regarded as a very dangerous spark point for a conflict that would involve many players. Does this move offering the so-called asylum to Hong Kong as make any such wall more likely. I think that. If you're the Pi Ball Gaming? WHAT PL a wargames! Taiwa would have moved up the agenda, but it was always pretty much top of the list. Who Decides what happens? That's a political decision and I think that anyone looking at Taiwan will think. Even if we were willing to pay the cost of a military occupation of Taiwan, what would that occupation look like because this would not be without resistance and home and Taiwan is a very well armed, modern and efficient Democracy, which would certainly resist an occupation by the People's Republic, so it would have to be extremely serious situation. an existential threat, the party inside China perhaps something like that to make it worth it. I can't see out. I think slow. Strangulation is the route that Beijing definitely prefers to a violent takeover Isabel. Thank you very much. That's Isabel Hilton editor of China dialogue now still to come on the program, we'll be waving the rainbow flag and weeping to the emotional key changes as Monaco's Eurovision correspondent. What it was struck at is how it actually reminded me of the real. Eurovision contest very proud of the research team for the film. Fernando tells us all about the Eurovision film spoiler alert I think he liked it. This is the globalist. has over nine hundred investment analysts from over one hundred different countries. Over nine hundred of the sharpest moins freshest thinkers in the world of finance today. Find out how we can help you. CONTACT US AT UBS DOT COM. Earlier this month, the report by Public Health England came out which stated that there is clear evidence that covid nineteen does not affect all population groups, equally an analysis of survival among confirmed covid nineteen showed that people have Bangladeshi ethnicity at around twice the risk of death when compared to people of White British ethnicity people of Chinese, Indian Pakistani, Asian Caribbean and other black ethnicity had between ten and fifty percent higher risk of death when compared to white British. Well Dr Iky Amu- is a Nigerian public health, doctor and writer, several years of experience in public health in the UK and Nigeria. He teaches at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, Imperial College and Bristol University and joins me on the line now I kissed lovely to speak to you again. There was an outcry when this report was released on the sixteenth of June. Why was that? A! Thank you very much for having me again. Genetic Shame I can be in your race by leashes to do this time. The outcry was actually because. People had been expecting this report for quite a long time. It had been delayed. Since the very first. Indications that there might be a disproportionate effect of Kobe on people from black and Asian another ethic minority groups. The had been this consent about what was being done about it and there are suppose. For most people in government and public health England had always been. Well we're working on this report which is going to. Provide Ensemble provide accommodations and so when the report came out and ended up being largely. An epidemic logical analysis. Which should you know? This stuff is six just a mentioned which more or less confirmed what most people knew at and. Also had been published in various forms, not as comprehensively embarrassments beforehand those. Sense of disappointment because this was a what people were expecting especially as what had been delayed. Publication as well, but there was another report. One that initially we were told didn't exist. Tell us more. Yes I mean I think the whole story about this report I'm surprised that the media and haven't really sort of tried to get to the bottom of it and give us a big story because it's. been quite interesting for something from. Public Health England I being commissioned to write this report on ethnic minorities and other part of covid on then. Initially there. It was announced that Trevor Phillips Would leave this work. When there was an outcry from the public given that. Some members of the public given that. Triple flips was currently suspended or is currently suspended from the Liberal Party for making what were claimed to be Islamaphobia remax. Obviously, that didn't go well, and so we then got the information that prosser. Kevin Fenton widely respected, public health, physician or British. Jamaican heritage. was going to be leading it the report, and then we then got subsequent information that led by John Newton. Yvonne Doyle. My Public Health England, and then when the report came out, it was published as being having come from Procedure Newton. which was a surprise to many people given that? Kevin Fenton had actually done the level of work speaking to. Buck an ethnic minority groups across the country and individuals trying to capture and also look at the. Published literature around what these might be and have come up with a set of recommendations. And I. think that was the other reason why people were surprised when the sixteenth of June report came out because they were expecting to see this. Part of the work other the time people ask fall there. was going to come later in walk to be done by the equalities minister working with Public Health England. And went out. But not long after Rajabu Powell. Various professor. Social Science and Public Health. WHO's worked on? I raise. Raise the alarm, saying it's not true that there isn't such. A report under conditions are still being worked on because I. Reviewed a draft. Ready for publication about twenty four hours before. And Subsequently Public Health England then released this issue like. I jumped reporter additional part of missing there. which difficulty in in know the views of people and as recommendations as well? It a whole. Mystery around what actually happened? I want to get onto those recommendations in a minute, but first of all. Let's just break this down. Because obviously virus cannot be racist in and of itself, but the situations in which black and ethnic minority people find themselves clearly can. Can you tell us more about the relationship between ethnicity and health? We knew that. I think that's played out in relation to this whole issue of Kobe and its impact on minorities. We knew that. Can Affect Health through a range of ways. It's going to tell you to the genetic. Of certain ethnic groups so you have things like sickle cell anemia, which are common in certain groups, usually groups who has lived in me malaria and demonstrations Jones, but then you also have an ethnicity that affecting health through the mediation of other. Social Factors for instance if you have. Some diseases we know that associated with. Parcel check on the status I'm and. Conditions like got them. Of course you know. Those will be more permanent. and. In. Often because ethnic minority people tend to be represented in some of these Should Olympics logistics then they show was an outcomes as a result. And, of course you have the direct impact of racism which is being more. Studied more and more look at things like how what? I called microaggressions the little things that happen on a daily basis sometimes. Can perhaps contribute to things like high blood pressure and all bus not very well understood yet, but it's something. People are looking at as well. So how did the stakeholders in the second report? Deal with us, what what are their recommendations? Their motions to me. Yes, in Falah straightforward, ask and uncontroversial, which is partly why it's slightly mystery wide. was that difficult for for the talked about things like making sure that black and ethnic minority. Spot in the Health Service and Transport and other public facing jobs. Received the right equipment and materials that they needed in protection. Taking them. Out of jobs where they might be at great risk. It talked about looking at how the impact and how these people were treated at work, and whether that may have. The ability to complain about I'm afraid we have to leave it there very interesting and I hope that we'll speak to you again. about the connection between the high mortality rate in Nigerians in Britain and in Nigeria itself. Here's what else we keeping an eye on today. Australia's military's sending a thousand troops to Melbourne in an effort to help contain a coronavirus outbreak of a fears of a second wave. The state of Victoria has recorded almost one hundred and fifty new infections over the past weeks as new clusters have emerged in Melvin staying in Australia Qantas will cut at least six thousand jobs as part of its plans to survive the pandemic, another fifteen thousand employees will continue to be stood down without pay over the coming months in released to the Australian Stock Exchange. Qantas said around one hundred of its would be grounded for up to twelve months with some for longer. And in the US the governor of New York New Jersey and Connecticut of announced visitors from states with high corona virus infection rates must self quarantine for fourteen days on a rival so far the US has recorded more than two point three million cases of the virus, and over one hundred twenty thousand deaths. This is the globalist. Stay tuned. Now we've all known for a while that Netflix's making a eurovision film, or at least those of us that a slight eurovision obsessed have known. Eurovision Song contest the story of Fire Saga Is Finally Out Tomorrow Starring Will Ferrell and Rachel McAdams as the fictitious Icelandic. You Fire Saga whose main dream is to compete for Iceland at the contest. What did I hear Visions Song Contest, correspondent Phil have a listen and find out. No there was an eurovision song contest entry. Well sort off. That sounds part of the soundtrack of Eurovision Song contest the store your fire saga, the Netflix's production based on the contest, and that is out on Friday, the twenty sixth of June Oh, and did I tell you that it stars Will Ferrell and Rachel McAdams. Officially. Saga will be renting Iceland. Issue this year ain't absolutely. They're. Disgusting people but we have no choice. So, we're in. Up. The film is a delight Oh. Yes, it is incredibly silly, and we've a little too much toilet humor, but that's okay as Monaco, Eurovision, correspondent, what was struck at is how it actually reminded me of the Real Eurovision contest very proud of the research team for the film. Even the setting was the proper revision arena of last year. Show in Tel Aviv. Even though the competition in the film is setting. Edinburgh, don't ask me why. The level of camp is high as you can imagine in one scene, lots of former eurovision, winners and contestants start blasting out pop classics, searches, shares believe, and Madonna's Ray of light. The Fire Saga in the title is the name of a fictional Icelandic dual played by will farrow and Rachel McAdams both their characters you from a very small fishing village. The character of Pharaoh's dead is played by Pierce. Brosnan I mean if he did Mama Mia this seemed like a national transition to me. The film goes through the Fire Saga. Dreams of wanting to become the Icelandic eurovision entry and potentially win the trophy. US. Three. Will Farrow said in an interview. The inspiration for the film came back nine, thousand, hundred, ninety nine, when he visited Sweden to meet his wife's family. It was right at a time when Sweden won the contest. We've Charlotte Nuisance Classic. Take me to your heaven. I have a feeling revision. Fans will enjoy this sure. They make fun of your, but not as much as they thought they would. There's a level of respecting. Their personal highlight was during dishes of the Russian contestant played by Dan Stevens. It's like the Lion King but sex you. Do have to watch that guy. He is a sex player. They're beautiful boys. We ought to do that will never be separated Michelson something about other women. His. Andrew originally. The story of fire. Saga is the perfect viewing for Friday night, and it does include a giant hamster wheel, europap tunes, and some very special cameras. What else could you possibly want for Monaco? Feeling was the basheer. That was phenomenal Augusta check singing. The praises for the new Netflix Production Eurovision Song contest the story, a Fire Saga which is out tomorrow. Monaco's landmark June issue takes stock of the last few months and looks ahead to the future charting the lessons we can learn from tough times and asking how the world can on should change for the better. In this special edition, we've assembled fifty illustrious voices to discuss what awaits industries from aviation to hospitality, and we bring you. They're eliminating insights. Firsthand will be a little scary for couple of years, but then the homeless ships. We put forward his hit. That we dominate. We do where we live an hour weekly. What does David Chipperfield? Thing is ahead for architecture. And how does philosopher Orlando Botton believe we can cope with difficult times. In our collection of fifty essays you'll read their perspective as well as reflections by economists, graphic designers, editors, artists, and much more. If you walk through a gallery whether it's commercial, or it's the live, and you don't want to steal the paintings that you haven't liked them, not really not enough. What's next for then cities, and can we think the way we move in our metropolises? Time up for sharing cabs workstations. Why does the Office Mata? Being separated from each other has highlighted the specific values, physical proximity has on office, culture, relationships and wellbeing, and the most important question of all our people actually nice. Monaco's June issue is available to order now at Monaco Dot, com, or be wise and subscribe. Of course people in Iceland, one Nice Person Is Andrew Miller who's on the line now with the today's newspapers. Good morning to you Andrew. Or I feel like I'm under pressure now good morning. Is I know it is quite hard for you particularly at this hour, listen. We've been hearing in a headlines that Australia's military, sending a thousand troops to Melbourne in an effort to help contain a corona virus outbreak there of fears of second wave. Now this is something that's been widely reported there particularly in the age. The age is where we're starting, and they are going with this story now it's going to sound quite peculiar to listeners in countries which have been harder hit by this, this is. The decision to call out at least a thousand Australian Defence Force soldiers to Melbourne, because something like twenty or so new cases have been reported in Victoria. Which is obviously in the great scheme of things not deal, but Australia had been congratulating itself on more or less, having knocked this thing on the head, and so the recent appearance in Victoria. In recent days is a bit of a concern. It's not actually clear exactly what these thousand troops are actually going to do. I suspect that there's an amount of reassurance theater going on here it's. The Australian Defence Forces are a very highly regarded and very highly trusted institution in Australia and there's A. kind of reflex among politicians to sort of deployed them. As a as exactly that as a means of reassuring the public in semi, related news. I noticed that panic. Buying has resumed of some products in Australia or in Victoria. Particular so woolworth's an other big shops are having to reintroduce item limits. PAPS! The army's there to stop people panic buying. Would be able to be quite the comedown. Wouldn't if you'd sort of earnestly signed on to defend your country and protect its constitution, and you find yourself separating people fighting over toilet paper and. It's not that it's not that unlikely. Let's turn to ABC and elsewhere who are reporting on the first indigenous speaker of an Australian parliament. This is. In the context of recent protests and demonstrations. Had the local iterations in Australia. This is this is kind of a heartening story. The death of George. Floyd Minneapolis may twenty fifth did have resonances in stroke you? There is a persistent issue of indigenous people dying in police custody. And there were a lot of protests associated with that this is. That context, it's a nice story chantey. Pay It. She's going to become the speaker of the parliament of the northern territory. He was he will be the first indigenous speaker of in parliament. He's previously being the first openly gay indigenous parliamentarian Australia. He's predescessor has stepped down amid a corruption scandal, and it turns out that the order of succession. Being what is, he's new deputy. Speak Garioch. Kit is also an indigenous politician, so the northern territories parliament. Has a now has an indigenous speaker and deputy indigenous speaker both essentially place holders, because there's an election on August, twenty second, but. Yeah. Well at any time, this would be a heart story, but right now. especially it seems especially when. Andrew I'm very sad to say that actually we do have time to look at the full story. I can hear the disappointment in your voice. It's not that hard at the moment to Crowbar Gratuitous football story into the paper per view. This isn't that gratuitous because to go back to where we come in one of the people in Victoria. Who has tested positive for corona virus? As luck would have, it is common, McKenna who plays football for Essendon now? The Australian Football League, which is the top floor, destroyed enrolls. Competition has recently restarted after some weeks of not playing and playing in mostly. Mostly empty stadiums, and it's playing short and games, and with lots of restrictions about where teams can play in where they can count go, but what we have now is the Connor McCann mystery. Because he tested positive and then tested negative, and now nobody's terribly sure what actually happened and whether he had the oldest or not, and and this was a big deal. Essendon game at the weekend was cancelled abruptly when when he's, he's positive. Test was returned. And now no one sure what has happened but Melbourne being Melbourne and Melbourne being melvina belt football, this has now become a major story, their podcasts and features and investigative reporting going into exactly where he is spent every minute of the last two weeks. It's it's verging on self parody, but I'm quite enjoying it. And there's a related story from Northern Ireland. Well, there is brilliantly. This has gone international because Khanna McKenna is among a cohort of Gaelic football players who have gone to Australia and taken up the Australian game. He's from. County Tyrone Northern Ireland. So to the doubtless bafflement of Irish raiders, the newspapers are reporting. This is world the Irish. Among, those who have gone quite big on it and now let me do the Catis plug. Okay, if you're interested in Australian. You can buy COM which is. A Interesting Enough Angie Miller which tells the story of the Victorian football. League and its success success, the Australian football league a that's what I say is it is your usual ten percent opposed. Thank you. That was Monaco's Angie Miller and seriously is a very good book, Cobb. He brings his usual dry wit and his wonderful style to this book, which is out now. You're listening to the globalist. UPS is a global financial services firm with over one hundred fifty years of heritage. Built on the unique dedication of all people bring fresh thinking and perspective to all while. We know that it takes a marriage of intelligence and heart to create lasting value for all clients. It's about having the right ideas of course, but also about having one of the most accomplished systems and an unrivalled network of global experts. That's why at UBS. We pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference to the bulletin with UBS every week for the latest insights and opinions from ubs all around the world. Carnival cruise line, the second largest in the world by passenger numbers has said it will not resume operations until at least early October this comes after the industry body. Cruise Lines International Association announced that all its members operating ocean going ships would extend the suspension until the middle of September well for more I'm joined by Rosie, spinks, journalist, covering tourism and the cruise industry for travel business publication, skift, a rosy, welcome back to Monaco twenty four now carnival would seem disproportionately affected because most of its cruises originate in the US. Where of course, the the virus levels is still high, but is this a crisis? That's been a long time coming. I would say no. When might have predicted that? It was specifically going to be a pandemic a respiratory virus that did this, but a lot of things that have really hurt the cruise lines i. think were underlying issues in the industry ahead of time I mean we you know. The CDC can track of for example norovirus outbreaks, and the way that does circulate on cruise ships it's. It's a closed environment. It is lots of people together for days days at a time, and the industry has really tried to argue that it's no different than a theater or a restaurant, but if you think about it I, mean it really is you? Don't go to theater for twelve days at a time, and so the risks of disease regulation are certainly high, and then in addition. The cruise industry. If you look at when things go wrong, which of course they do, that's not necessarily their fault. They generally keep sailing. They you know to keep their their investors happy. They have to keep those ships at sea, and so that kind of default reaction, in this case created a situation where. They found themselves sort of at the epicenter of this crisis early on. Because when it kicked off, they kept sailing. I mean I wonder how cruise lines have managed to get away with issues such as labour. Be Something we've seen suicides, health and safety, and as you say many previous outbreaks of disease for so long. Yeah. It's actually quite a simple answer. They're regulated like no other industry. In the world, the regulatory structure is is of course international maritime law, which was was not created. With the intent of regulating floating. Hotel Casinos with eight thousand people on them so almost all major cruise ships are not flagged in countries like the US or in Europe. They are flagging countries like Panama. Bermuda, the AMAS knows flag states They just don't have the regulatory might that would be necessary to ensure that you know. These massive companies are adhering to rules, and it also means that like you said you know the kinds of labor protections. We take you really basic stuff I having a weekend. Don't exist on a cruise ship so a cruise ship crew in normal times. They'll work. You know six nine month contracts. They'll work seven days a week and It's really it's really something that I think if the vast majority of cruise ship passengers understood was going on, they might they may. They may not feel a little bit different about why their holiday is is priced the way that it is. Just just finally before we go. Is this the end of cruising? Then? It's going to have to change fundamentally surely. I think it's the end of cruising as we knew it, there was a certain kind of I might even say Hubris from the cruise lines that that if you cover, there's you know they? They really thought there wasn't a lot that could forgive the Pun. Interrupt their smooth sailing and I think this has laid bare a lot of the more structural problems in the industry and I don't think the change will come from consumer demand, necessarily but I, but I don't think cruise lines will be back at it the same sort of sod and trajectory that they were before this happened Rosie. Springs thanks very much indeed. Well. It's time now to business with the financial analyst and broadcaster Good Morning to you Louise Good morning now. I don't know if you've been out and about recently, but yesterday I took a drive that should have taken me five minutes on the hottest day of the year I was in the car for forty because it was a traffic jam. It seems to me that the world all certainly Britain and London in particular has gone back about its business just like BC before corona. And, of course this is the fear now of a second wave and we're seeing that played out in the markets. So this was yesterday, so what we saw in America was that. A number of states have imposed a travelers from all the states to quarantine on arrival say the governors of New York New Jersey and Connecticut said to eight other states if People alive here. We're going to quarantine them. There's also Australia post its biggest daily, wise and infections as well in two months, so there's a Texas, apparently facing a massive outbreak according to its governor. So, this is what caused US stock markets to fall about two and a half over two and a half percent yesterday. And this is the concern now. At the same time we had the IMF worn its latest World Economic Outlook. The global GDP will be even worse than it predicted in May. It already said we're facing the biggest global slump since the Great Depression with a three percent contraction global GDP. Now it's saying it's going to be a five percent contraction in global GDP, if you want. The number is costing the global economy twelve and a half trillion dollars, which is a number so large. We can't even grab hold of how big it is now. At the moment we've got this massive government support around the world, and and these sort of the economic claps. Would you believe it is being cushioned by that, but the consequences of? Of Is! This huge rising global debt dwarfed by what we saw in the global financial crisis, and this is something you have to remember that the lockdowns causing a worse economic and Fiscal Impact Government finances impact than the global financial crisis, and that was pretty horrendous, and also the news. The news from companies and businesses just mounts up this morning. The Royal Mail you would think it would be doing well out of this crisis. Given everyone's been online shopping at boost their past business. No, no one sending letters. They've announced two thousand job cuts. Your Stress Airline Qantas this morning. Saying they're losing. They'd have to make redundant of their workforce. Six Thousand People Swiss-born yesterday again they do services. AIRPORTS HARDING THEY UK workforce BBC investigations into local councils, fifth of five of them are now saying they may go bankrupt. This just endless lists of five news if you start poking around now. France has said that it's going to extend governments support the furloughs game could last up to a couple of years there, so this is extraordinary two years now. macron says that we're going to extend the full I. Mean Not tells you one how worrying. It will be when. Businesses when people come a furlough and I think there was a survey yesterday that suggested twenty five percent of people coming furlough, a likely to be made redundant. That's two million people in the UK so a two year furlough scheme. What does that say about the furlough? Scheming how it's supporting people staying? In work, if you want to call that a the what's interesting about this is the Francis eased its restrictions not quite back down back to normal as you said, but it's it's. Social distancing and stuff, but even so it's ten percent the economy according to INSEE. Survey is still ten percent below its normal. Now you might get over ten percent. There's almost fantastic to thirty to forty percent below the normally in the harsh lockdown. Yes, but ten percent and economy operating at ten percent below normal is still a catastrophic economic collapse, and this is what we sort of. Forgetting about by the way a two year furloughs game will be breathtaking expensive Let's cross to the US now and have a look at this story. The US defense. Department says that twenty top Chinese firms including alway or either owned or backed by the Chinese military. So, this is a really interesting headline, and we talk about stock markets, fooling the other things bubbling in the background is the US and trade war, which we talked about on Tuesday but also the geopolitical tensions and we've got. Tensions between the US and Europe as well concerning a trade war, and concerning the people can travel to and from the US and the EU since is. There's a geopolitical tensions are bubbling along in the background when krona virus grabs attention, so the US Defense Department has has basically issued a report to congressional committees. that same twenty top Chinese firms, including hallway, the telecom equipment provider, either owned or backed by the Chinese military and this I imagine is to limit twelve ways involvement in intact ethnically. Mobile networks and putting their in our mobile networks. Now what they're saying is a couple of things first I all the saying well first of all Chinese Chinese companies. Still US tech well. The Russians stole US tech for decades, and it never helped them and Chinese China, stealing trade secrets in China stealing intellectual property. You know again. There's been a long history of that. The second thing they're saying is well the Chinese use civilian tech for military purposes, says America look at Boeing the reason why so many? Businesses have civilian and military bits because the technology works on both sides so i. don't think that's the real reason I mean. The underlying thing is here is if we put hallway tech in. Mobile Systems does that allow the Chinese government to spy on? Influential important people in in the West. Does it allow them to listen into phone calls? Or tracking the movements of important military personnel or or all important members of. M I five or the CIA in America and this report. We just don't know what would. It concludes yet, but I would argue it's yet more signs of the geopolitical tensions. If you look at pull. They very famously refused to hand over unlock codes to us. Authorities I can't imagine that defiance. You would see that defiance with Chinese tech companies towards Beijing Louise Thank. You very much. Indeed, that was Louis Kupa the and that thought today's program. Thanks to producers, Marcus Headley page rentals. To rebel and Daniel H researcher Charlie Film Court and our stadium, manager, nor hull after the headlines. There's more music on the way with Fernando. And between the two of US will keep you company until we had you ever to. 'em Elson on the briefing live at midday in London and the globalist of course returns at the same time tomorrow. Listen out for monocle reads late today went to celebrate pride months. My guest is Annika Harry the author of gender rebels, a fifty influential cross, stresses, impersonators, name, changes and game changes. Thank you for listening.

United States Hong Kong Taiwan Beijing China Australia Eurovision Melbourne Monaco Singapore Britain UBS London Hong Kong Connecticut Hong Public Health England Victoria EU
Episode 521 | A Roundtable Discussion about a Potential Recession, Working from Home, Google Anti-trust, and More

Startups For the Rest of Us

47:03 min | 9 months ago

Episode 521 | A Roundtable Discussion about a Potential Recession, Working from Home, Google Anti-trust, and More

"Welcome to this week's episode of startups for the rest of us. I'm your host rob walling each week on this show. We cover topics related to building growing startups using an ambitious yet. A sustainable approach. We're not willing to sacrifice our health or relationships to grow company and we view relentless execution and the long-term mindset as things that we value and this is episode five hundred twenty one speaking of long-term mindset. We've been doing this show for over ten years and today we're tackling some news stories. This is a startup roundtable episode. Where i bring on a couple of guests and we talked through topics today that relate to bootstrap then mostly bootstrapped. Startup founders. Today tracey osborne. Joining me tracy's been on the show many times. She is the program manager at tiny seed. So we work together on a day-to-day basis and she is the founder of a sort of called wedding. Lovely that she worked on a tiny seed and shutdown. Shortly before joining us. My other guests is ena are full. Set he is my co-founder in tiny seeds. So it really is a trio of tiny seat folks here today and our co founded tiny seed with me. He does a lot of the investor relations. Work works exceleron well and he also founded discretion capital where he helps sas founders. Who are doing a million dollars or more in air are sell for revenue multiples. And he's been on the sell side of sas for quite some time. So it's a good panel discussion today. We cover topics ranging from is recession. Impending we talk about the google antitrust and how that may or may not impact are types of companies. Talk about work from home. Dropbox going to permanent work from home and a handful of other topics before i dive into that. I got some good feedback both constructive and some positive feedback on tiny seed tales. The final episode of season. Two goes live here in just a couple of days. But i heard from. Jj who said love. These episodes great stories excellent content about the challenge of being started founder from. He said i love listening to this format of the podcast. Them really interesting and entertaining as well as hearing some of the smaller scale problems boots. Trappers face they remind me a little bit of the first gimblett series which i thoroughly enjoyed and which was still around and then from kyle. I got some feedback. Said i liked the general idea. I did stop listening to season two after a few episodes a little fuzzy as why i stopped. But i want to say it didn't seem as if i was going to learn that much from the company or from the episodes. I'm thinking what would have been more intriguing if you were in more of a coach role and get to hear you. Coach them more again. If i recall correctly and season one craig was further along and he was experienced so you coaching him seen less critical. But in this one i felt like i wanted to hear more of your voice on their journey so really appreciate everyone who wrote in to me. This was just a sampling and again. I've received both positive and constructive feedback on it and that is what i'm looking forward to figure out a. Should we continue to produce the tiny details episodes and be what changes we should make the show format as we move forward with that. Let's dive into our conversation. Tracy thanks for joining me on the show today. Yeah happy to be here. Ain't our us well very good to be here. Good to have the band. I was gonna say back together but this is the first time. The three of us are appearing on the podcast. I think it's it's kind of cool. I mean you both have made multiple appearances over the past twelve to fifteen months. But i haven't done to many of these. You know. I i get a lot of requests to do three and four person basically news tables but they tend to be pretty hard to plan the logistics tough and then it's often times hard to find topics enough topics right that really relate to our crowd because we talk about stuff that is broader news. Jason calcutta says this with great success on on this week in startups. but he's relating it to the world and he's talking about trade policy and this and that and i find that it can sometimes be hard to link that back to boots on the ground microcosm of sorts to the rest of us tiny type startups. But i do think we have a good docket today and the first topic we're going to cover is it's actually listener question about the economy and it's from an anonymous listener and he said early on in the pandemic you described abroad revenue trends along the lines of about twenty percent of companies that you were invested in or had the financials of our way down sixty percent had a minimal difference and twenty percent are way up and this question asker says hey we actually landed in that sixty percent now once. I actually said that off the cuff one day and then i came back to it like a week later and actually looked at the numbers and it will end up being closer to fifteen seventy and fifteen percent for what it's worth but give or take it doesn't it doesn't really matter he says. So here's a question. It's six or seven months later. What that picture look like now. I suspect that a lot of us in the that initial sixty percent group are starting to feel signs of a real recession. Maybe a few extra customers turn. Maybe customers still renew but get lower users. The effects aren't huge. But they're there. My sample size is small. But i'm seeing it. it's not falling revenue. But it's flat where i had expected growth. There's a lot of reasons why people don't want to admit this stuff. Revenue failing to hit forecast is not a good look. Disappointing results are hard to face. No one wants to consider the implications of that really for themselves or others if other startups out there are seeing signs of this. I think it might be helpful for the community. Know what to look for and what to do about it my business fine and we have a broad customer base. But i'm curious to see what you're seeing out there in the space in. Are you want to take this. I sure so. My view is is things haven't changed all that much. I still think the breakdown is roughly what you said. I think dickey's ask. Businesses that are are serving industries. That are still hurting whether that's travel or schools or or know restaurants and things. I still think they're hurting. I don't think it's quite in the same deep-freeze as it was back in march april timeframe but certainly like i think a lot of those companies are still hurting and i. I don't think it has expanded. Necessarily i think the growth on the other sort of fifteen percent side. I do think the growth spurt that came for like the winning companies has slow down a little like we saw some companies in particular who like maybe before cove. It was growing thirty forty fifty percent a year. All of a sudden grow one hundred percent in three or four months. Because you know they were at the forefront of you know whatever work from home or or something that sort of covert kobe related. I think we we're starting to see more normalization for these guys is growth rate. They some of them are back to where they were thirty. Four day some of them are sort of coming down off the off the peaks and doing perhaps stabilizing at a sort of a higher base. I think certainly that's true. For example with things related to e commerce and delivery things and stuff like that in the middle. I don't know. Actually i'm not. I'm not one hundred percent. Sure whether i feel bad. I feel bad for the question. Asker i sort of want to say. Yeah that's what. I'm seeing all over but that's really not not fully. What i'm seeing or at least hearing like people are still tentative like they're still like well budgets are harder to get on and like approvals are harder. But i'm not sure that i've seen a slow down into the fall. I don't. I don't think from the people i talked to anyway. But you know it's relatively small sample size. So tracy you have insight into at least twenty. Three companies across tiny seed badge one and two. What are your thoughts. Well one thing. I was wondering about this question in terms of timing and i was going to pose question. U2 was the possibility of a recession but also like worrying about that happening while we're also going into the holidays like whether the kind of dropping growth is that something that happens with something happened with me and my previous started because we were so seasonal seasonal yeah exactly or a seasonal startup and i was wondering if you know if people are like oh should i be worried about a recession. If it'd be worthwhile to go over kind of the way you should see going to the holidays keeping in mind holidays or in cova and so things are going to be weird versus. How do you see if you had to see if it's a recession. How that's affecting your business. Yeah my thoughts. There are obviously if you're an ecommerce black friday's coming up and so any type of ecommerce or software or whatever is going to be going up and to the right over the next month and then it'll drop down and q one. I saw seasonality and all of the companies that i've run but it was mostly it wasn't seasonality too strong i would see dips usually dips in growth especially if it was sas right. It wasn't a revenue dropped but it was the growth with slightly celebrate. We if you were sign ups right around tax day in the us so mid april and then around december i was. I was counted. It lucky if december grew at all and if we stayed flat that was fine. But i really wanted to have a good november and then we would come out swinging pretty hard in january and we often launched big things in january. Yeah that's exactly what. I was kind of getting at so. I'm curious to see how things would happen in january also depending on the us politics where we are in cova. D- is like. Is it too early to say but recession being that there's other things going on. Yeah i think the answer right. The uncertainty of cova had the uncertainty of us elections and holidays. Coming up. i can see them making people on easy and not wanting to purchase so the question asker business. His business flattening or not growing as fast could be justified by that. But like an are. i'm not seeing. i'm invested in between seat in my independent steph. I've thirty five investments. And i'm not hearing that they're slowing down. I'm not seeing plateaus across the board or slowing across the board. And so i think there's kind of two questions here and one of them answering with no. I don't think everything is kind of flattening right now yet. The second question. I think he's asking you implicitly as like. Do you think there is a recession on the horizon. You know when we look out three six months and for me. It's a big. I don't know. Because i thought i mean i was talking in two thousand fifteen. Sixteen there has to be recession coming. There was eighty nine. We'll know there was one in ninety. Three there was one in two thousand. There was one in two thousand eight. And i kept thinking. I mean. it's not that it's every seven or eight years. But i kept thinking this has been going on really the stock market's really overpriced when i sold drip and had all this cash i remember just agonizingly investing in the market. Because i was like. I'm waiting for this to cut in half any day and that really didn't happen until cova that happened. In january two thousand sixteen there was a big correction but it came back the next month. So there's no recession their next big hit obviously was when cove started but that was just such a it was so short lived that i don't know what's coming well. It was short-lived. I mean there's sort of a binary outcomes you start. We turn into stock discussion program here but like if you look at the companies that are listed on the stock indices. You see that. Like basically the reason it's recovered is because of the big tech firms like amazon. Facebook twitter dose zoom. Those kinds of things done really really really well. I like the russell. Two thousand which are the small caps companies that are listed. they really haven't recovered. It's like they're still down twenty twenty thirty percent. You know it's it's been. It's been a story of two different two industries which is also party backed up my like my view of the market and this relates to emanate to in the software space. Like it's been very strong like if you're in software or anything that sort of semi positive like do sort of had tailwinds the last few months now today. The i think the dow was down three percent. And there's obviously a lot of uncertainty around the elections. And you know who knows what's going to happen with the vaccine and things. But certainly i think the last three or four months of anything i've seen i've seen tech firms have sort of tailwinds through the last few months at least. Yeah but i think you're combining things because you're talking bear market bull market and stock prices and i'm thinking more recession or not so. I'm thinking of sas companies. Just getting started to several moon and revenue mostly bootstrapped. Are they still growing. I'm thinking more about the down the street or that. Maybe jim's a bad example but a store a retail store. Here in town you know are they. They don't necessarily care about the stock market. Obviously it impacts the broader economy. But you know when. I think about it if i was running a sas company today whether i was doing k. A year or five million a year and i was again bootstrapped mostly bootstrapped. I would be slightly cautious right now. Because of how much uncertainty there is and none of us can predict a recession but there are a lot of things that can go wrong in the next six months and me personally. I'm fairly risk averse. Especially when i'm running a company that i don't want to lay people off. I don't want things to go to zero. I don't want to miss payroll whatever it is. I would be thinking about being a little bit conservative. And having perhaps a little more of a cash cushion than i would have in the boom times. I mean you go back a year. You don't need so much of a cash cushion. If you're ten twenty percent a month right now i would be thinking about. What is my plan b. c. and d. if things start to go sideways here what if growth flatlined for six months are we good. What if i be asking myself somewhat and figuring out which of these could be company. Impacting your buy some bitcoin. i think. obviously i'm tracy crypto. My husband is very into crypto. Yes i am not but he is. I it's fun being adjacent. I'm sorry i'm going off his hands it here. But it's fun being adjacent that world then listen to our and his and his thoughts and ours just in it for the for the big score. I definitely own crypto people who listen to podcast dollar cost averaged in and i went on these big runs because right now it's up. I do a little bit. A dollar cost averaging out to kind of feel good about that. Our next topic is actually a story from the new york times. And it is about the google antitrust suit so the. Us accuses google of legally. Protecting a monopoly. I think that don't be evil. Moniker that google had for many years. I think a lot of us especially small startups who have experienced whether it's direct competition whether it's being stepped on accidentally whether it's having edwards constantly be more expensive whether it's having our our keywords be not provided whether it's having them not send us traffic because they're doing snippets on at the top of the homepage. I definitely think there is a sentiment in kind of early stage startups. That certainly google's doing stuff that may not be fair or encouraging of the ecosystem tracy. What are your thoughts on this antitrust. And how do you think it impacts that startups in our community google. It just feels like it owns everything it has its fingers and everything intact and you can't avoid them. If you know people are still talking about their superhuman. There's other email things everyone's like. Oh but gee meals the best and you're like okay. I won't talk about our -tising facebook. Advertising and red arrow is really add. Words is the thing you have to to start out from and you get a new phone and it's google is on your phone. I think that's what you said earlier. Was that the. That's a lot of this anti-trust cases about the phones and everything coming with by standard. I'm a fan of any kind of breaking up at least a little bit. Because i feel like google being in all these areas and being having its fingers in everything is slowing or preventing some amount of start of innovation in those spaces. And so what. Would we see if google wasn't the number one and everything that we do so if it was somewhat some way of breaking it up allowing for more innovation from people where tech be if google wasn't the behemoth that is right now ditto. Yeah i agree with. Broadly agree with that specific case. Doj brought against. Google is pretty narrow. Like if you really like. I said there's they're saying okay this anti-trust protecting their search monopoly by paying. You know billions of dollars to apple and whatever to to make google their their default search platform. But broadly agree. I mean it feels a little bit similar. Like google is walking towards the situation. That microsoft was in years ago back in the nineties and and things microsoft was sort of the big bad wolf and did squash you or out compete or by you or do whatever and it is. I think it's funny that like basically got sued by the doj for antitrust when they were twenty two years old and google is actually twenty two years old this year. It's almost like college graduation. Thing like congratulations. You made it. Here's a lawsuit from the doj. I mean you look at what what happened with microsoft when they did face that sort of thing i do. Think that's overall been good for the for the star ecosystem that that's sorta stranglehold that they had on tech. I mean there's two ways of looking at it. I think either like you know the fact that they got sued and things opened up some innovation but then the flip side of that too is like people had to work around that monopoly to a large degree. And that's why you get web apps and things when you did in the early two thousand. So i don't know i think it's sort of a one of those really big market moving things. Direct impact on sort of boost trust software engineers. That i think is more tv balanced with him. The big thing. That i've seen google do over the past fifteen years as i've been more involved in the ecosystem as i started running edwards. The thing that i've seen them do that has been anti innovation or anti startup directly. Is this slow kind of titrate or decrease in the amount of data that they give to people who are trying to market their businesses so when they started pulling keywords of google analytics and they give not provided right instead of the actual keyword search site. I mean before not provided. I was small business that was marketing on the internet and i was either doing. Seo or as buying edwards but it would tell me hey click through this keyword and they and so this keyword converts really well for you. Well they pulled it out and it was they give some excuse about it being privacy. I it was only like if only if it was s l and then they just rolled it out to everything and what did is it forced you to buy ads from them because if you buy their ads they give you the key word. You know what i mean. So how is it so so that never made sense. And there was a bunch of uproar and group said we don't care then they slowly pulled. All the data out of their keyword tool is completely useless now they said they would never sell search rankings. But if you look at the just search for any term the top three or four five positions now are all adds organic number one is oftentimes below the fold depending on how many things you have on your screen and you can't even identify the damn ads like it's a tiny little box like my kids. I had to teach them that those were the ads. My mom's still watch reason. Computer she clicks on a top result every time. And i'm actually like. Oh you just cost. That store money and i was like well. You clicked on their ad. She's like how's it that it's the top searchers. People don't understand so that's not what this is about this to be clear is about the default search engines on these mobile devices. But it it's all intertwined. Tracy said they are everywhere and do i believe that they have used monopoly powers to just throw their weight around and not care what what the market says i do. Oh yeah i mean just asked like mike. Taber like the hoops to jump through to get to. What effectively is the default. Either client in the world. That's that's something that you can do. I mean i mean all the big the big boys do i mean. Twitter is like famous for like a developer. Api after the developers helps them become famous and become popular in the first place. And so yeah. I agree with that. Next story is about dropbox. I'm reading this on business. Insider dot com by the way all of these stories. We will post in the show notes. So the headline of this story is dropbox. Will that all employees work from home permanently as it turns his offices in two. We work like collaborative spaces. Shouldn't they just say co working collaborative spaces. Why does it have to be. We work like there's a lot of other that's interesting. That's like saying kleenex. Tissue or band aid instead of a bandaged but anyways so in essence tracy is this just the rest of the startup world basilica. They're finally catching up to what bootstrap have been doing for the past ten years because we didn't have the money for offices. No kidding you know. There's a lot of negative effects from covid and the effect around office spaces and there's just these norms that you know. Once he got to certain size you had this office space. And what was it like. Yahoo used to let you work from home and then mercer mayor became the ceo and she rescinded that because it was like you know that was the norm and that like yahoo was innovative before. But then they're using that as an excuse to bring them back when she was in there because she said that everyone works better together and i think bootstrap irs know that you can get as good work done remotely but all these companies were facing this. This norm that was pervasive. And then finally couvet. It's forcing people to make this change and malaise companies are waking up this idea of. Hey you're having your employees drive our to and from the office. They have similar lives. Maybe they're getting more work done. Because are faced with less distractions from being in the office. I'm looking forward to seeing how this plays out in the next year. Especially as you know hopefully as cova gets better and maybe things are opening up again. But i'm hoping is that these lake dropbox other companies were also have these policies put in place and that employees lives. Hopefully it will match something. We'll the closer to how bootstrap have learned to work from home or at least hopefully have learned to work from home. And are you. You live south of the bay area and so you're kind of. I bet you're seeing lower traffic now. That people are working from home. Do you feel like this is going to change the landscape of these big campuses facebook. My brother and dad worked in the electrical contracting industry in the bay area for years and they were part of doing work on the massive google campus. The massive facebook campus the massive cisco campus before that all that stuff. But that done at this point. Do you think most companies are gonna wind up going least half remote or remote permanently. No i'm sort of torn on this whole subject as like resident. Extrovert here like like. I certainly think like some some of the traditional views on some venture capitalist on twitter. Making a big deal about the fact that they're no longer going to make it a requirement when they invest this or like a qualifier that a company has an office before they invest. Which i thought was was was really stupid on the other hand. I do think like there might be a backlash once. Vaccines in place. Like because i feel sort of cooped just just in my home office and like not seeing people just day to day. And i do think there's value in like interacting directly face to face with people but i do think there'll be a fundamental shift in store the expectation. I think probably mostly from the employee side. Nato probably start with like tech companies and things and then trickle down whereas like okay. Maybe they'll be there portion of the time you know. They're they'll maybe there's they work from home to three days a week and then the office a couple of days a week and i think i think trump is doing is smart because i think that sort of facilitates that sort of that sort of thing which i think in general is a good thing. I mean we're already seeing like interest in the real estate real estate markets in the bay. Area the shift where it's like. Yeah it's not a good time to own like a one bedroom condo in downtown san francisco because everyone is just moving out and buying cheaper bigger place or elsewhere so i is definitely a trend but do i think it will become like everything is like remote. I and offices are going the way of the dodo. I don't really buy that. But i guess we'll see i think. In general commercial real estate is a bit screwed particularly california prop fifteen passes with the tax increases and things. I don't know what they're gonna do. I mean it sort of follows on from and just to be renting here. Is it a follows on from the fall of malls and shopping malls and things because more and more of those places are now you know ecommerce has taken over. And they're just empty malls everywhere and like. What are we going to do with all that real estate question is the same you know. Even if it's a small trend say twenty percent of companies or twenty percent of employees. Don't to office regularly. that's a big. That's a big drop right in the occupancy rate of these places and what are we going to do with all these office space. That you know isn't being used anymore. Kimmy convert some the housing well. That's what i think you know. There's a mall in town where i live and it's like well i look at them like why isn't that converted into an apartment complex at this point because i don. I don't think that this is going to fill out again in any way shape or form and see why it can't be a hybrid partial apartments and partial shopping restaurant complex. But the that stuff takes time for me. I've always been a believer that a lot of the companies that have been remote at the larger companies. Like let's say base camp or i can't necessarily think of another one. I've taught my head but a company with fifty to five hundred employees. That is remote tends to be a lot of introverts and they do tend to hire people who work well remotely and we haven't done an experiment this large to your point. Our with companies. That have maybe didn't hire specifically for remote workers or have more extroverts more workforce. I think we got the balance right with drip when we were in fresno there were ten of us and there were some people that were remote were fully remote. They were in new york and there were in other states. That's just because to find the best people. That was what i had to do. But everyone in fresno we came into the office two or three days a week and that day was optional. And so i saw derek. I saw and i saw my co workers and then when we sold we moved to minneapolis. It was three days a week mandatory. And then i think it was monday and thursday. Everyone had the option and most people just work from home and that is such a such a good arrangement especially if you have to do any type of maker time. Because when i'm at home. I would try to block off and not have as many meetings on those days so i keep the mornings to myself and i would have zero interruptions and in the office. I got the social time. We did a lot of white boarding. But i get interrupted all the time and i just certain point said i'm no longer maker. It's just not going to happen in an open office space. And so i hear you on that. I mean i don't know if there will be transformation of these office spaces into living space if they transform transform into escape rooms trampoline parks like i see a lot of the warehouse district. But that's the thing. I think it will hurt. Commercial real estate like the rates on startup office space are higher than the rates. You can charge a trampoline park or whatever innovative new entrepreneurial thing does come out of this. So i think there there will be a hit but we'll just have to see how back to normal things get once there is a vaccine and things start to Start to clean up true. I mean even if you just take your example right if if the majority of companies end up adopting what you're saying that's two days out of five. That's a that's a very low. Yeah and then. We'll have to figure out. Do you like we just paid the rent as if we use because we had it thirty days a month right. We had it three hundred sixty five days a year. We just didn't use it all the time. So that was a decision we had to make when you could end up at a scenario right where like two companies split it right so you have monday tuesday friday or maybe how both of them come in. Everybody comes on friday and it's a big party that you can see those type of situations. Yeah or i could see. I mean the fact that we work has had some major issues in his tank. Pretty bad but can you imagine if there were a more successful more sustainable model that a lot of these are just turned into shared office. Space into more of a we work. I wonder i wonder if there becomes opportunity. There's that old phrase of like. I want to be the second buyer of everything because the first buyer the first investor puts a ton of money in they burn through it they prove out the model and then when that goes out of business. I can buy it for pennies on the dollar. And now i have this asset that there's opportunity and i wonder if there isn't going to be that in commercial real estate terms of office space. Our next topic is it's an interesting one and listener. Follow me along on this. Because this isn't as relevant to someone who's running an extreme early start but i know more than one founder. Who has hit the point where they're doing. Let's say to to ten million in a rr and they go to try to raise money and they don't want to go the venture unicorn track but they do want to have some liquidity perhaps for themselves or to pump into the company to continue to grow. And there's a couple of things that tie into this at the bottom line is due to the regulations in the us. It's virtually impossible to do that. Is not worth it because of the high expense of going public in the us. I in canada. There's the toronto stock exchange and in australia. There's i think the australian stock exchange of what the name of it but in toronto. If your company's market cap is four million dollars you can go public on their exchange and the fees between ten thousand two hundred thousand dollars depending on how much money you raise so it. It's actually quite inexpensive. And you could imagine a sas app much like you would meet at a microcosm do you know who's doing three four five million a year going public which sounds the phrase going. Public has such gravitas with us. And it's like well only and apple and google are public. These are massive companies. But i don't think that should be the case actually and so. Are you want to walk us through a little bit. I mean we touch on here one. Why the hell is it so expensive and hard to go public in the us and then the real topic that leads us into these things called packs which are special purpose acquisition companies. And they've been in the news quite a bit lately. I've heard him on. This can start ups. And i've heard you know there's a forbes piece on them and they are suddenly becoming kind of a popular way to go public in the us. Yeah i mean it is lottie strange. I mean because i think i think most. Us investors don't really look abroad like they don't they just think this is the way it's become and you know the trend over the last ten fifteen years has become that even though this perhaps not you know have your regulations than there already. Were you end up in a scenario. Where a company like airbnb is going public after like maybe twelve years of existence instead of the more typical which is a decade ago. Plus go was four or five. Maybe six years and i think it is slightly weird to me that it's become this like you have to be one of a small number of unicorns in order to go public because like you mentioned that's just not the case. In in other countries there are dedicated. Exchanges like the tsa venture exchange in canada. There is being norwegian. i know. There's one called masculine norway. There's a couple of ones in germany you know basically like people understand that if you're buying stock on this this exchange then yeah there's some compliance and things but these are much riskier bets than your ged or google or apple or things like that and like on a philosophical level. I don't really understand why why that is impossible. Because in terms of like investor protection will investors can. Go on the robin hood app. Like i did and buy a bunch of put options on united thinking that donald trump is gonna announce some sort of a vaccine before the elections. Oh it'll jump up and you can lose all your money like i did in like a week and nobody's stopping you. There's no like accreditation. Process are doing that. So the stock market as we in part of seen through covert is is to a large degree is sort of a a good way to lose a lot of money very quickly but fundamentally what i think i think one of these things should exist in the. Us where it's like. Okay if you get a certain a certain size like you say five or are why not go. Public companies like that go public all the time abroad and it gives access to to retail investors. Who don't have access to the private markets like fundamentally one of these things the fact that things take longer to go public means that the average investors who don't have inside access don't get to participate in the value creation there and i think actually like spikes like the circle back to the topic at hand like spac sort of sort of a symptom of this problem like basically like empty shell companies that people put together and they go public so they list the basically an empty company and the company busy says we're going to sell five hundred million dollars worth of stock in our company in the shell company and then turn around us that capital to buy or choir a private company and effectively s- like a backwards. Ipo like the company becomes a public company by virtue of being acquired by this shell company. My view is that that's sort of a symptom of like how complicated and how long is taking all these companies to go public. And so i think. I think we'll start to see more and more of the trend. I'm sort of pro at. I don't think there's any reason why more companies shouldn't be public so that more investors get access to the value creation. That obviously happens there because you get to ten million like you say like what's your options at this point while it's a sell to private equity right is still a portion to private equity for some liquidity and things but are they really giving you the best price you know like. Wouldn't it be better to have like sell twenty percent of your of your stock to the public and not have basically one boss who may have their own sort of view of how you should grow and your strategy should be going forward. I think spac are kind of a loophole or a work around to anne. Would i would say is an overly complicated system over-regulated over the complicated system. I certainly think there needs to be investor protections. Yes the laws the laws. That are governing. All of this. We're most of them. Were written in one thousand nine hundred eighty five and they haven't really been updated very well. There was the jobs. Act that a little bit for crowdfunding but really there are still a lot of problems with with. What's going on today. Tracy you've witnessed it firsthand as we've been raising funds for tiny seed fund to and are came back to us because he was doing research and he said if you raise a essentially a venture fund which is what tiny seeds raising and you have your raising more than ten million dollars the highest number of investors you can have fun. Accredited investors who are loosely. Either have a million dollars or more in liquid net worth non including their the primary house or they have income of two hundred thousand dollars a year for the past two years or three hundred thousand. They are married so these are people. That's the definition of kind of sophisticated investor in the united states. Even then you can only have ninety nine of them in your fund so if you want to raise for example a forty million dollar fund you need people to give you. Essentially your minimum investment has to be four hundred thousand dollars per average out to that which is kinda crazy right. Because if you could have you could have a thousand investors. Well then you could drop your minimum down and you could make it more accessible to so many more people. And i think given our love of what. We are doing our belief in this space that we would prefer for more people to be able to participate. But i'm curious. Had you heard of this ninety nine investor problem before now and any other thoughts on it. This issue really goes back to me. As someone who isn't investor have always dreamed about becoming an investor kind of a baby baby investor and coming into tiny. See i had no idea about what went into raising fund being part of a fund and so tiny seeds thesis which put our website. Is something obviously working here. I totally agree that we're talking about tiny being a basically index fine into bbc sas and so we talking to people who are candy and credit investor met those requirements. You have before but maybe just barely meet those requirements. A lot of people are very into the mission. We're doing and a lot of people don't have four hundred thousand dollars but they're like. Hey this sounds like a winning bet to me. I love to put it in five thousand and it sucks. Be like no. We can't we can only talk to the people who already have enough wealth that they can just blow this massive amount of money into tasted it creates problem between wealth equality in the way that people who are coming from disadvantaged backgrounds have a hard time to get to that level wealth able to throw around that amount of money and so when we have something like eight again. Totally believe in what we're doing things that we're gonna be a success. I want to help other investors especially from disadvantaged backgrounds also be a success with us and we have to constantly tell them no. It just drives me absolutely up the wall. And the fact that nine investor problem as i've brad feld wrote a blog post about this. If you go for it exists and it's frustrating because in two thousand eighteen president trump signed. I think it was like a startup. Act or whatever those hopefully to solve this problem between nine investors being allowed to to be in a fund by opening up to two hundred and fifty if i recall but that only applies to funds that raise less than ten million dollars which is ridiculous because it's the funds are raising more than ten million dollars. Need to have more like a number of investors who were able to invest in it. So it's i feel like it's it's a huge issue. I think it leads to the restriction of wealth growth to these wealthy people. And it's like i can go to a casino and i can spend five thousand dollars in a casino and now in about it i but i can't take five thousand dollars and try to invest in some larger which are because they're kind of indexing arguably my have more chances success that's not allowed for me because those funds are restricted only large investors. Just bananas. i obviously agree. I mean i have. I talked to investors all the time. And i tell them sorry like our minimums are minimums and people get frustrated. And then like you know. I wanna put fifty thousand dollars into this often. They're successful operators. So there are people who may be bootstrapped us ask business got it to you know to sold it and now they want to put the money into the area that that they understand i impart impart to support the community and impart to obviously make a return and i think it's the craziest thing is it's even worse than that. Because technically speaking there's two definitions of investors to well. There's more but like the main he credited which is what you're saying and really like then you were pretty wealthy person if you qualify for as an accredited investor. But there's there's a higher threshold call a qualified purchaser and basically what a qualified purchaser is somebody who has at least five million dollars in investments. Now that's obviously wealthier than someone who is quote unquote just an accredited investor. But the funny thing is that you can actually take off the one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine qualified purchasers so what that means is our minimums an any funds. Minimums can be lower for the wealthier investor. Which doesn't make any sense. Like i can take five thousand dollars from you if you want to. But only if you're worth at least five million bucks if you are quote only worth say two or three million well. I'm sorry. But then i have to take four hundred thousand or whatever whatever. The minimum for the fun sizes. That doesn't seem to make sense to me. And i don't know that. I've ever read a good reason why this nine investors wide the limit is ninety nine understand why should be like a thousand or you don't want something that turns into a scam that gets a million investors caught up in it but nine just seems really arbitrary. Yeah it was a million then. It'd be a public company right if you had that essentially public. So but you're right. There's a big difference between ninety nine and a million so we'll see what happens. I'm kind of just throwing my hands up and being like yeah we need to. Somebody needs to figure this out. Because i do believe this is hurting innovation. Much like the high cost of healthcare in the united states. I think the regulation around going public. And i think the regulation around ninety nine investor limit on on funds. I think those three things are the things that i have experienced firsthand over the past year or two that are seriously impacting the startups that i'm working with not only with tiny seed but just all around microcosm and you know the people listened starting for the rest of us so hopefully we can do something about it. And i would be remiss. If i did not recommend people go check out dot com slash thesis. And if you click through there you can send an email you fill out a form and he gets an email and you could chat with him to hear about the tiny seat thesis and to hear about you. Know more about what we're up to and how we're raising that fund. Our last story of the day is from read it and it's a warning about glass door and the person says for the past few years. I've often defended glass door. As a useful resource as part of any job seekers overall job seeking toolkit about a year and a half ago interviewed with a company that had horrendous reviews and thousand essay. So i'll kind of summarize from here but in essence there were a lot of negative reviews. The person took the job anyway. The job was not good and the environment was toxic according to this poster and they wound up going back to a glass door and posting. Eneg review that then not only got removed but then got removed everyone. This person's reviews on glassdoor were removed. and then they. They imply at the end of their posts that that they've heard that glass door has supposedly done a minor pivot into brand management. So that perhaps it's becoming less reliable that it's trying to get rid of negative negative reviews or something to that effect. I think the question. I have is maybe twofold and we'll start with you. Tracy class door has tended to be a bit of a mixed bag. But i have definitely. I've glass door quite a bit for salary. Recommendations which i find to be pretty reliable and i also used it back when i i looked at lepage's stores and example when we were talking about being acquired by them and there have been companies where have tried to research whether they have whether i think. They have a positive or negative reputation with their employees. I have always wondered. I mean much. Like yelp and much like amazon reviews. These things do gamed eventually. And i've always had it in the back of my mind. I wonder how reliable these actually are. Do you have much experience with class door. And what are your thoughts on this whole topic of candies be game. Do we think that as something gets big eventually just does lose. Its value because they can't control the potential review. Spam is funny to me. Because i've never used glass door other than four free information like you mentioned because a previous company i worked for glass door reviews and they were terrible and it was. The funniest thing to me and i was win. They rebranded and i believe a one of the reasons why they completely renamed and rebranded. The company was because they're glass door reviews were so terrible and they needed to have some way to like wipe the slate clean so this was about seven or so years ago so it was when glass auras. I think that there's probably a lot more systems to game now but back. Then that was like you just had to wipe the slate clean or to get rid of those passer views. And i have check them recently and they have better reviews force. I assume that they made some management changes in addition to rebranding the company. But yeah it's definitely has been games in the past a very complicated matter like that and absolutely think it's being games now. I think i read that article that reddit post and there are mentioning it just like yelp rate is like all. These companies are going to be very concerned about their reviews because it's going to vastly affect the amount of the quality of the employee's they get and savvy. Employees are going to read bad reviews. And they're going to stay away and so now. Yeah it's these companies are gonna be doing whatever they can to either with cost or or otherwise to kind of scrub those reviews just like yelp and i think what's going to happen just like yells. I think people are going to be using it less. Now that these things are coming to the forefront them curious a hero you you to say about this. I'm wondering if there's this open up the door. The opportunity for a new store competitor to come in and have a better algorithm from the start or some other way of validating this stuff that then becomes reliable for a few years and then the same thing happens in our you have. Thoughts are experienced with glass door. I don't have much experience specifically with glass door. But i do think in general. These things tend to you know like an anonymous reviews of things. I think it's prone to gaming in general i. I think you're right. I think there's probably a way to make last or not so easily but but it doesn't surprise me at all their companies will want to try to do it just because like you said one of the hardest things okay. Recession talk aside is to get people to want to work for you to get quality people to do it. And if you have a horrendous review glass door that says this is the worst place in the world to work. That's going to be a problem. I think in general. But it's like you know. It's little bit like i said. It's a little bit like yelp reviews. Do you really know or is it. Somebody who just like they. They have a real aversion to. I don't know creamer in their coffee in this particular way that this cafe does it and decides to make it their mission to take this cafe down like hard to know right. Yeah and i think if you're obviously if you listen to this you're probably pretty early. Stage zero employees. Maybe ten or twenty please. I do think at least for now that people will go to store and if you have no profile. That's probably fine because you can just say we're so early that we don't have won. The dangerous is if you don't have a profile someone leaves and they read a negative review. And you're only review is negative. So i would consider having some type of presence on glassdoor if you are gonna be doing hiring and you have at least a couple employees. You can ask folks. Hey can you just post review here. Honest review of your experience here so. I don't know that this needs to much more commentary. Thought but i do think that the problem of these kind of big issue and especially anonymous review. Because that's the thing right. Yelp is effectively be anonymous because you could over time you can buy accounts on yelp that already have reviews you could set up a new one leave a bunch of positive reviews and negative. I mean there's there's ways you can do. These things tend to be really hard. It's not tied to some identity. Say being a yelp elite in the early days of the it was pretty sweet in the bay area. I say as former yield elite. Wait what was the man i know right. I was like how does not know this. They had this whole pergram. That if you'd left enough reviews be invited. If i recall correctly invited this special hillbilly program and then you get invitations to restaurant openings and special events and the idea is that they will give you a bunch of free food and alcohol and you'll give give positive reviews afterwards so there. Is this one summer where this is quite a while ago for me. It's like ten years ago for me. Where lake pretty much every weekend drinking for free based on being yelled elite famous. So tracy osborne you are at tracy makes on twitter and you are in our vol- set we will link both of those up in the show notes in our. Thanks so much for joining me again on the rest of us throw me and tracy thanks for coming on happy to be here really appreciate tracy and are taking the time to record this with me. I hope you enjoyed this format. I've done just a handful of them over the past several months. If you really enjoy this. Type of format pleased friday questions at startups for the rest of us dot com or hit me up on twitter at rob walling and let me know what you think could be improved or if he just loved to hear them more often i've only done and maybe once a quarter both due to kind of the lack of new stories that are maybe discussion worthy in our community. But also you know there are a little more effort to set up. But i am willing to do that. If i hear resounding yes yes yes. This is something that i'd really love to hear. So thanks again for joining me this week and i'll be in your earbuds again next tuesday morning.

google twenty percent sixty percent twenty two years tracy united states fifteen percent rob walling tracey osborne exceleron gimblett Jason calcutta one hundred percent thirty forty fifty percent Four day Tracy three six months edwards twenty twenty thirty percent three percent
Sarah Dingle  finding my donor dad

Conversations

50:30 min | 3 months ago

Sarah Dingle finding my donor dad

"This is an abc podcast. Conversations is coming to you. Today live from the sydney writers festival. I'm sitting in a beautiful room in carriage. Works in sydney's surrounded by an audience of fifty thousand incredibly well-dressed in my guest. Today is sarah. Dingle sarah is an award. Winning journalist with the abc for sarah to begin with journalism was about reporting stuff that happens to other people but then one day. Sarah discovered that her dead. The father that she'd loved growing up was not her biological father. It was a third party involved in the conception. Sarah came into the world is the result of an anonymous donation from a sperm bank in the nineteen eighty s and the news went off like a series of destinations in her hit. Firstly sarah had to grapple with the fact that she wasn't quite who she thought she was and then with the realization that she might have half brothers and half sisters walking around maybe one or two or ten or even dozens of them who knew how many donations had been made. Sarah you that finding the identity of her donor dead would be a difficult in fort process. But she was shocked by the wall of obfuscation and half truths that medical institutions put up and this was extensively done in the name of donor privacy but sarah suspected there were other factors supply and she wondered why no allowances had been made for the rights and the needs of the children involved in donor conception. Sarah has written a book called rave new humans. Please welcome sarah. Dingle start with this lunch. You had with your mom sarah at a vietnamese restaurant and you were twenty seven years old. How what was the reason why you call this lunch in the first place well. It was easter. it was easter saturday. And i thought you know instead of an easter egg hunt which doesn't seem appropriate with your mother. We could go out to dinner instead. So we went to this restaurant near oxford straight and i was twenty seven and i didn't wanna have children anytime soon but i was starting to become aware that you know the clock is ticking on and i thought maybe there was something i should ask her about. So i said mom. Did you have any problems. Conceiving me because i don't want to have kids now. But if there's something i should know i would like to know it and she said maybe this isn't the right time to tell you that your father is not your father. Was she watching really closely. F- your reaction to that news. I think it was. It was very painful thing for her to say but once she got through it she immediately needed to know that having said it it did not matter. It did not change anything so she said to me. Look it. doesn't it doesn't make any difference to you. Sara does it because the only difference it would make knowing your family medical history otherwise it doesn't make any difference to you and i was pretty much. I wanted to smash everything in the restaurant. But i could see that. It was a very painful conversation for her to have and that she needed this reassurance straightaway so i said no. It doesn't but do yeah. That was a lie. It did matter how about your dead dismiss that you knew that your father was not your biological father. What had your relationship we've been like growing up. We were really close and it was great. I never had any idea that my father was not my father and you might think are always no. I'm here to tell you don't always We were very very alike and we got on really well and then when i became a teenager. Of course we clashed. We were so alike. So it was a total bombshell. You talk about the really crappy old trope of the tiger mom your mom's chinese-malaysian but you didn't have a tiger mom you target dead. Yes so my dad. He grew up in adelaide and he left school pretty much at the first opportunity and he never went to university so he was super invested in my education. And i just don't understand the tiger mother thing because it was always my white father. Not my asian mother who was on my case basically. How would your parents they met in. Adelaide came to australia at the age of eighteen. I believe on a rotary scholarship studying nursing and she was one of a number of young malaysian women who did that. They're all still in nursing all still hang out. They make it to the cakes so she was in adelaide to studying nursing and my father and my mother met at a party and that was apparently were you. When you're dead died. I was fifteen. And how did he do. My father was electrocuted. So i we went to adelaide every christmas to spend christmas with my father's parents and one year. My grandfather was still living in his home which was starting to get a bit run down and something was wrong with the electricity. I don't know i wasn't there. I was on exchange in germany and my father was asked to go up onto the roof to have a look and he was electrocuted and he fell off the roof and t- never recovered consciousness so that a twenty-seven to be told that the father you loved and identified so strongly was not your biological father. How did that affect you. Did it affect the way you to the way you look in the mirror year. I mean you might say twenty-seven you're an adult. You don't need your parents anymore but you always need your parents and the thing. Is it undead. All the previous twenty seven years of identity. So when i looked in the mirror i didn't actually recognize what i saw and it was very very strange. I just i just saw colors and i saw shape but i did not recognize my own face anymore and that was i mean. That was just a few minutes in the mirror every morning and blade into the rest of my life. I couldn't. i didn't know anything about myself anymore. So being a journalist you absolutely had to know everything about at this quad quite properly. That's kind of a common reaction people in that circumstance people who suddenly discovered they were adopted as will looking into the history of dona conception clinics which i used to be called sperm banks rather will voguly back in the day. How long have we had them for an australian. Sarah look the first sperm banks in australia. Were opened the. I was opened in adelaide in the seventy s. Not the noughties or anything as you might think and in fact we have heard donor conception in australia since at least the nineteen forty s if not earlier the first facility clinic in australia in sydney in one thousand thirty eight so very soon we are coming up to a centennary of donor conceived people being made in this country and yet we still do not talk about. Why was this such a strong demand for the services of such places in the seventies eighties and nineties woods. So everything really ramped up from the seventies on. And as i say in the book the reason that i believe that is the case is at the same time that donor conception and fertility treatment was taking off another source of supply of children was drying up by which i mean adoption so from the seventies onwards abortion was made more readily available to australian women. That's one thing. And the other thing. Is that the number of children for adoption suddenly dwindled. And you see it. In the figures there are thousands. Maybe more than ten thousand in the seventy s children being adopted and maybe five years ago. It's down to about two hundred and something so once one source of supply dries up but the market is still there. The demand is still there. And in fact one of the pioneers of facility treatment in this country alan trounson told. Abc that another solution to be found is often used in association with iv treatments. Today they of go side by side for people who are struggling to have kids there are a number of pathways to conception if you are in a same sex relationship. It's probably an option. You consider up earlier rather than later but if you're not donor conception is perhaps the ultimate solution infertility treatment so you may go through rounds of ovulation induction. I the f. with exceed. These are all sort of techniques if you like but if none of that works at the end of the day of tilde specialist will suggest or may suggest don't conception so we are. We are the final fertility safety net. Perhaps but of course it's one of my friends says don't conception is not facility treatment. It is the failure of fatility treatment. I think we must people think that the process of the technology. If that's what you call it for dining insemination you. Imagine a some kind of a syringe or something like that and that would be it. Is that how it works or is the technology developed quite a bit since then you looking at anything from that to pretty much gatica sifi land so obviously they call our. Ui intrauterine insemination. Which is what it sounds like but also you can have in vitro fertilization. Which when eggs are extracted combined with sperm in glass in vitro fertilization takes place outside of the body and then the embryo is planted inside the body. That's pretty normal these days. Now i mean. The frontiers are ever expanding. There is currently. I believe a bill before the federal parliament to allow they call three parent babies which is not ivf or during the conception as you might know it it is. In fact combining the dna of two women for instance to make an egg which then fertilized by a sperm. Do we have any concept of how many born by donor conception we have no idea because no one has ever kept the numbers or seen it as important to keep the numbers so eleven years ago. In two thousand ten there was a senate inquiry into don't conception and they was an estimate provided to that inquiry by the donor conception support group which was started by parents have done. It can see people that there were perhaps. Sixty thousand donors save people in australia. That was an estimate. Eleven years ago we could be eighty ninety one hundred thousand now. I just don't i don't know anonymity has always been very carefully protected. What was the thinking behind that. Is that the idea that like if we don't protect the identity of the diner then they may not come forward with the donation that it i mean. That's that's what they'll tell you these days. That's the theory. Donor anonymity ensures supply. There're a number of things to unpack in that first of all at what cost. Secondly are you sure. That's always the case for donors everywhere. Because the donors i've met have not been bothered by being known to their biological children. And thirdly it is untrue to say that donor anonymity ensures supply and that if you unmask donors as it were supply drops. There are a number of peer reviewed studies showing that the introduction of identification for diners actually correlates with an increase in donor numbers and the facility sector will not tell you that if you've grown up as a baby who's the child of two lesbian parents would obviously know all your life that you would concede to net would be dressed right at the get go but you might never have known. Had you not taking your mom out and asher. That rather pointed question. Does this mean then given the secretiveness around this whole issue. There are a great many people walking around australia right now. Who had done a conceived simply do not know it absolutely. I have discovered studies published as late as two thousand thirteen which say that up to ninety percent of donor conceived people. The children of heterosexuals will never be told that they are donor. Conceived so that's up to ninety percent will live in ignorance. And i i. It's just it's mind blowing to me because the risks of that to physical and mental health are insane. This is a key question here. Is there a limit. And has there been a limit on how many women can receive sperm from the same man. The answer is it's complicated. It might shock you to know about inustrial today. There is no national regulation or in fact legislation surrounding done conception or fertility treatment or the facility industry whatsoever only half australian states and territories have any laws on the baby business and within those states in new south wales for example. You might have a limit of donor can donate to only five families. Max but those limits in new south wales and another states have come in relatively recently and in the state of victoria for example we know that even when those limits set out in law of in. Victoria's case ten families were were stipulated as absolute condition. They have been broken three times over. So these limiting three times over what you mean. Well they were. There is a case in my book. Where i talk about a woman from the then victorian infertility treatment authority who gave evidence to parliaments and she said one donor has contributed to thirty families. So in you looking for the identity of your biological father where do you start if your donation saved and you want to find out the truth. The most logical thing to do is to contact the clinic that made you and this almost always ends badly. Clinic headed approach. What was the clinic anyway. So i was made at the public grown shore hospital one of the biggest public hospitals in australia. One of the oldest one of the supposedly most reputable and when i went searching for answers in my case. First of all. I discovered that the fertility clinic the offshore which was known as clinic twenty sinister sounding name had in fact being somehow moved into the private sector by the fertility specialist. Who is heading up that clinic. It was privatized it was privatized would probably not. I mean i've asked these questions of the ministry of health. They cannot tell me why it was sold who it was sold to. Did it go out to tender. What was the price they cannot tell me. They are the answers to those questions. So what happened when you contacted this. Larger company now had subsumed clinic. Twenty where you had been conceived clinic. Twenty became north shore assisted reproductive technology and sought under that leadership and then it became part of iv australia. Which i'm sure you've all heard of which is a very big privacy. Ivy austrailia was bought by private equity. I believe and it is now part of the giant vert health which is listed on the australian stock exchange so when you did contact. Ivf austrailia wanting to see the records of your conception what happened well the answer first of all was we've had a look. You're not entitled to those records because you are not a patient. Only mother is. You are entitled to access nothing. But we can tell you that we've gone through and had a look and the information about your sperm donor in your mother's file has been cutout so there is nothing to find so you can't see the file now but even if you could it would have nothing. No no sign of who is in that file. What was destroyed is not the donor's name because that never would have been in my mother's file in the first place was destroyed was the code which identified which man was which which told you who and how many children had been made from that man. And what did you think about that. Being told that you couldn't see that file. But i thought it was pure insanity richard. I'm the file. That's yeah that's me in that file. I'd like i don't understand how my mother is a patient and i'm not a patient. They literally made me. So i sat with that for a while and i thought can i launch any legal action because i cannot see how i do not have a right to that information and i had a chat with a couple of lawyers from law firms and from legal aid and everyone just said nor it happened too long ago. I'm not that old by the way. So what happened when you ask your mama for permission for access the files on your behalf. At first she refused because this whole conversation was so painful for her. And i know this has happened to many other. Deinekin can save people. You need to access the truth. You have no right to it. It all depends on your parent. Your parent is terrified. And this happens wherever you look conception you never have a right to anything your ability to find your biological family including siblings is always pendant on other people. So it's quite different from the rights of adopted kids thin. Yeah i don't want to. i mean adopted. People in australia have and around. The world have waged war on what is known as closed adoption. And i have so much respect for that. They have won the legal right to know who their biological family is. And it's by no means. Perfect there are caveats that exist in states and territories around australia but the right is there and it beggars belief that we are considered differently. So what changed your mind about giving you access to that fall cancer so. My mother was diagnosed with a lump in her breast which was the second time that it happened and the prognosis was good. It was considered benign. But i said to her look man. I need to know risk if there is a history of breast cancer on my paternal side of the family. And i have this coming at me from both of my family. There are decisions that i need to take to protect myron health access to that file and she said okay so she got the file on your behalf. She gave her permission for me to access the so. It did come to me first so when you got the foul. What was the file. How voluminous was it was just pages and pages and pages of it only two out of a stack about an inch tall actually related to conception and in those two pages. There's a spreadsheet on each page with know calms name a patient data treatment. Whatever and you can see that. The column headed code for donor. Code has had all the information below it cut out. What with a razor blade or something like this is what they use. It has been cut out of the play. Yes it has been cut out so there's a hole in the page. They have stuck a blank piece of paper on top with sticky tape and then they have that so there is nothing to be found ever. Why had the donor codes been. What did they let me rephrase that. What did they tell you. The reason why the donor codes had been cut out so the reason they gave me was that it was to the reason. The the the official reason that was given to me was that it was to protect donor. Anonymity which makes no sense to me. Because his name was not in that file it was a code and i have found other reasons since. I'm not sure which is the right one. Possibly all of them are but if you cut out a code you cannot tell how many children to how many families that donor made. There is no unbroken path of liability if the resulting child or woman comes down with any venereal disease or inherited genetic condition and above all if people who are donors should not be doing this. There is no way of proving it so amazingly you founded the nurse who had been present at your conception which is a weird thing to say. I know it's a really odd thing to say. The last part of the talking about this story is everything. So kind of a little auden. Was it uncomfortable talking about this now. It seems all it is. we'd look it is we. You'd talking about personal stuff because abc journalists. Were not supposed to do that. Now you're supposed to talk about other people other people all the time which is great. I love it. It's very safe doing that. But when you find yourself in this crazy and you're a journalist you do naturally go. This is an amazing story and at many points throughout this. I just i felt like i had to stop and really questioned myself if i was the crazy one because everyone else seemed to consider the what was happening was absolutely normal so like i say you spoke to. The nurse was present at the time. Who amazingly turned out to be a friend of your mother's she was at my birthday parties when i was little and could she recall anything about who your donor dead was. She was very nice on the phone because after all she's watched me grow up and she said that they cut out the codes at the time. The donors were chosen by her so she literally made me. She was the woman who ensured that. I exist and not some other form of sarah so she straw and not that strong yet but it was really through the looking glass like it was i. I don't think. I mean if you can possibly avoid it. I don't think anyone should really talk to. They're extremely disinterested non-parental maker. Because it's really weird. Senator will do to support your parents six. And she said there were a couple of donors who might have been yours. This has always stuck in my mind. Because i thought i might get these kinds of phone calls and she gave me two codes of sperm donors that she thought either one of which might be my biological father. And what were those codes. What would they like my clinic clinic. Twenty used random ish. three letter codes. There is no consistency between facility clinics. So if someone tells you that the donor code was like five. Four f h. That doesn't mean anything to me. My clinic used three letters and the codes were eighties. Ed or a f. H you're listening to conversations with richard fidler back in the dice. Sarah discovered that there are a lot of male medical students that donated sperm for these these programs for these clinics. How did that work on lodge. How how were they approached. All i can tell you is what i've been told not. All the donors back in the day when medical students but some seem to have been and i know from at least two accounts by fertility specialists. That they were there students or they were students themselves. Medical students in a class and the professor would say who wants to be a sperm donor. Handle hands up boys. You know that kind of thing and it has been suggested to me that perhaps a little extra credit was given in return for dna and that the professor within feel a certain amount of obligation to protect students from the consequences of their actions. That a great many of these donors would of course been proceeding in really good faith thinking that we've been told that there was this terrible need people wanting children. They couldn't have them. You could help out in no way. Would you be held responsible or even identified unless you wanted to be specifically down the track. You wouldn't have kids banging on your door asking for money for private school fees as a result of all this. You wouldn't be having any of that so if you can contribute to the public good by donating your sperm. And i'm sure a lot of medical students thought. Well i will do that. You get bit of money in the interests. Well what kind of funds were being paid to the students in order to contribute the money paid for donors varied and various to this day by clinic. And by what you have to sell so if you have eggs to sell their worth a lot more than sperm if you have sperm to sell look i've spoken to a donor who donated two thousand five two thousand and six. I think he was paid one hundred bucks each time. So think about it. I mean for women. Donating eggs is incredibly arduous and painful and risky but for men not so much. So you know you go into a room. You have an organism. You get one hundred bucks. What's not to like so having approached via frustration for information on your conception and you discover that the dinah code the code for the identity of the diner had been cut out of those documents that you'd hit a bit of a brick wall instead you put yourself on a voluntary register in the state of new south wales. What was the idea behind that. How is that supposed to work. The voluntary register is the only thing that new south wales government has set up for. People like me so if you were born before the first of january two thousand ten in new south wales that is like most people in new south wales and you want to find your biological parents or your siblings. You can put yourself on the voluntary register so you put yourself on their with the name and clinic details if you can find out anything at all and a bureaucrat. Somewhere in the new south wales government. Notice a match between you and anyone else who put you in touch so when you went ahead with this. How long did it take you to process this application. And by and large what was the bureaucratic process. Like with you trying to bang on the door to find information about this stuff first of all. I've never seen the voluntary register advertised anywhere. I found it out. Because that's what i do and when i put together my application form to put myself on this register there was a space for code and i was like. Oh here we go. I think it's a fake or eighty ed. I don't know do to short record keeping. And then. I sent all of it off and i got a notification of receipt. Two years later. I spoke to a contact of mine in the department of health and i asked her to check on my application to the voluntary register. And she said all this is strange because what they do at their end they received the application and they send it off to the fertility clinic responsible to see if there's any additional details they can add in to verify the information and she said look it. It looks like our letter to. Ivf australia about you was returned unopened. That was two years ago. The process is stalled. I'm really sorry and this is once again. Another point where. I had to stop and go. Is it me. who's crazy am i the crazy want. Yeah how many matches had the new south wales registry been able to make. Its history anyway in twenty fifteen. I did a story about Other people finding their donors. And i asked the new south wales government and voluntary registered. This question and they told me in their entire history. The number of matches they had made between biological families and donate conception was one which reported because i thought it was staggering. And then when. I was writing this book last year. I decided to ask the same question because i thought look it's time for an update and they said we don't know because we don't keep track of that information year right now seriously a few years ago and now know anymore right. If you're running a voluntary register which has the sole purpose of matching family. I do think you should keep track of how many families you actually manage to match. You're a journalist. What does this sound like to you. Does this sound very good. The sound good to you name. It stinks stinks. So you testified to a new south wales parliamentary inquiry. And how did that go for you. Sarah telling that story in response to jamaica which that was excruciating so my daily life like all other journalists i have to interview politicians and question them and hold them to account and all of a sudden. I'm in a room with six. Male politicians only men and. I have to tell them how my father died. My father in fact is not my biological father. Here is what i can and cannot find out about my sperm donor so on so forth and it was four. It was so awful even compassionate. You know work. It gave me a lot of faith in politicians which is not something journalists often but they were very nice in particular. The chair was very nice. And i think it does make a real difference to members of parliament when they can see run front of them the living and breeding people who are affected by the issues. They're discussing the problem with trying to change things so that the identity of the donor can become apparent. Is that it might mean you have to apply laws retrospectively and any kind of legal legal undertaking. That was made by the clinic to protect the privacy of the donor would have to be stripped away retrospectively. I mean that. That's the core of the problem here. Isn't it yes. but it is also a red herring. So first of all donors being guaranteed anonymity cool for that to be the case you have to be able to provide a stack of contracts signs with the informed consent of all people involved which keep that arrangement bulletproof which still do not include any sort of a cent from the children produced to surrender their biological family. so that's nonsense and also anonymity is a nonsense. Because in many cases the fertility industry and the broader medical industry has fought very hard against even going back to ask donors if they would now consent to be identified very large medical organizations including. I should say the names. Because i'd have to go back and double check that but have said that donors should now not even be given the option to know their biological children why. Why was the justification for that. Who's what business is it of their's if the donor wants to make himself or herself now. Oh exactly why. Why would you hypothesize on this. Or i will say that if you go back and uncover the truth of who has been made from whom for what money at what point. And how many then the fertility industry itself possibly might start to look very bad if the donor is filled and located and it turns out that the people involved his wife and kids involved. How does that tend to go over in the family circle when the truth of this is exposed to the family. So i know from other donor. Conceived people talking to me that connecting with your biological parents in donor conception can go so many ways it can be great epa can be kinda blah and you can go badly and when it goes badly sometimes this is because it is a sperm donor. Who was married has a wife has his own kids from is on social situation and he may be open to some contact but the wife will shuttle this down and she will basically pursue a scorched earth policy because our quest for answers and family threatens her world. And this is the case. I know of at least in one situation even if the wife of the sperm donor was with the spoon donna when he donated sperm and explicitly encouraged him to do so. A few back. You did a story on a donor called john. Just calling him. John for the purposes of predicting his privacy generous had john been very generous very generous. Richard john kept his own records of his sperm donations in the absence of any facility clinic across the board doing and john noted down on his pink note paper that john had donated sperm three hundred eighteen times to six different fertility clinics across sydney including public hospital clinics and there was no one keeping track of that by the way because there was nothing in new south wales set up to actually monitor even in the state which donor was donating where let alone across the country. I think we're all reaching for pocket calculators at this point how many children may have fathered by a quick reading in your head. Then syra so it depends on john and the quality of his sperm to be honest. So fertility specialists have told me that from a single sperm donation you can make between five and twenty straws and if the donor has good sperm tilleke then the stores will be more effective or you'll be able to make more stores essentially so either you times three hundred and eighteen by five or you times that by twenty to get the uppermost number of how many children john could potentially have fathered thousands. Thousands thousands update rachel calculate thousands. Thousands i mean if every store works not every store works of course but three hundred and eighteen times divided into five to twenty stores. You're looking at a lot so these are all people who have been born at the same time into different families many cases who were aetna bat walking around they meet someone is a lot like them. They have all these things in common. What is the risk of excellence here. So term for accidental incest. There is actually a term called genetic sexual attraction and it is identified in adoption. This is a real thing. It is a real thing so an in the uk. There was some news that came out a few years ago. That seventeen men. In britain alone had fathered more than five hundred ten children between them because they were sperm donors just seventeen. Sperm donors had fathered five hundred and ten children or more so a journalist in the uk. Ross clark tried to calculate the risk of accidental. Enter incest for those children of those seventeen men alone and he came up with one in one thousand sixteen. He was assuming that all the children were heterosexual and woods partner with someone else within five years of their own age but he did not take into account things like the confounding factor of clinic matching where they match donor with a recipient couple to enhance the lie effectively. Choose a who looks like the father and also the fact that people will naturally choose a donor who looks like them from their own cultural background or racial background or whatever and that he also did not consider that relationships are not random we are attracted once again to people who are like us. So there's internal audit done into this whole business by the state governor you south miles then reports delivers a report. That concludes that no one was responsible for the deletion of the codes. Yep and this is really starting to feel seriously gasoline. At this point this is. I got very very cross very yes very good as journalists being able to bring people and demand answers from them. Not many people are good at that though. I mean it's makes you wonder what would happen if it wasn't a journalist on the case here just having to we had to accept these things being handed down on high so you started a facebook group and you up with your friend rebecca bic. Who's a warrior like you. She's comes from an italian background. You come from eurasian background all these things. You're getting on fabulously hell. Did you then start. Embarking on dna testing together to arrive at a possible solution to who your who the father might be. Dna testing direct to consumer dna. Testing is something that is not just for the board retirees or anyone sort of like building a family tree of their own. It's also for donor conceived people and adoptees and often probably far more often than you might suspect. It provides the answers that literally. No one else is prepared to give because the science at least does not lie so bic had been saying to me that we should do deny test for a while and i was like. Yeah yeah. Because i'm a journalist and as such oddly enough. I'm quite concerned about privacy. And if you look into the terms of agreement that. Hda company provides. It is terrifying. They gain access to your unique genetic codes and your internet service provider and web pages visited before. And after and your email and you find in your credit card data. Whatever so. I was just like look. It's too much it's originally. I cannot do that. Terrifies me But eventually i realized that this was the only thing that was going to succeed where everything had failed. And what did you in big. Discover once you've done. This denied hist so we did a dna test. And i got the results. And i had a whole bunch of reasonably distant cousins like the divorce. Fifth whatever and beck wasn't there and we don t the test at the same time. And i was like well. It's what i suspected all along. Because i've learned not to hope for anything in this business but i did bring the company and they said we have a new algorithm. So you're matches might take one to two weeks to properly generate so. I waited one to two weeks. Two weeks later there was a new match for me and it was beck and the predictive relationship was first cousin and beck rang me and she was like sister says tortoise and and i was like what no. What is this cousin business. And she said look. I think that's wrong because if you look at the amount of central morgan's share which is a genetic unit of measurement. We share too much. Dna to be first cousins. And i think what had happened was the algorithm really kind of weeded out by the fact that beckon. I were born two months apart which is really freaky day. He for siblings but totally normal in donor conception so big was your half sister. She's sister did that. feel fantastic. Find that yeah. It was very good. I really enjoyed the first damn decent thing that came your way in this hall idiots exploration wasn't it really and you know it was like apart from the fact. That beck was my friend. I so it's really nice when your friend turns out to be a sister but the other will look like no no. No no no no. You would not hire if you saw us in the street you would not know. She's half italian. I'm half asian. You would not but the other really nice thing. Was that oddly enough. I felt like because we share dna and his dina exists and has been recognized. I felt like. I had proven that. I was real. What do you mean. Real your real. What did you feel like a ghost before this. What did was prepared to acknowledge. Fully half of my dna where it came from north that anything had ever happened at all really. I couldn't find any concrete answers and then all of a sudden. I have a half sister. So i know that that that exists and that happened in. She's my family and it just. It felt really good so then you were contacted by another woman named heather who i think is relatively distant relative and and head of the machine. I think you'd have to call her. She's amazing she like all these years of delays the station. She just went like an absolute machine into your dna history and found. Your father found the father of you and big. What did you think when you saw the photo of look to be honest i thought she must have got it wrong because i just i didn't. He doesn't look anything like me. And the i just didn't feel any connection and you know. I'm not into the wu but i thought when you see your biological father for the first time he probably should feel something and i just. I didn't feel any spark of recognition. But hedda who did all the genetic genealogy built our family tree forward in time to find this man is so thera. I had to believe her but i just couldn't feel it if that makes any sense and the dna test proved positive is indeed your father so you in beck went to meet him. What was that meeting like. It was very strange. So he doesn't live in new south wales He was in town something else so we met him together for the first time at the sydney rose club and i arrived i and he stood up in the foyer and i was like we still don't like me and and we sat down beck arrived a bit later and i was just trying to like. This is a very journalist thing. But i was trying to make sure he didn't talk himself out onto beck arrived and we could actually get going. Because i didn't think it was fair that i heard it i and also it's the moment it's more support. It's it's everything you shouldn't you should just hold your fire on that. I think so. I was basically trying to make sure that he didn't say it all and it was difficult because he is definitely a talker. Like so much more than i was like. Whoa whoa whoa. Whoa and then beck walked in and it felt the conversation which i thought before was quite strong unleashed and he just talked at us about like not even about biological family. Quite a lot of it was about other stuff like john. Brisbane probably prices and colonial australia. And i hold i look. I stayed for three hours in the left. Because i was like i'm done beck stayed for like eight hours and i said. Did he ask you anything about yourself. And no not really. And i was like what did you talk about. And she's like oh. There was a history of france. And so so i. I sort of decided that i'd had enough but i kept thinking about it and then i wondered you know maybe it had been a bit intimidating for him because there was not one but two of us just sitting there staring at him and then i thought look scary scary looking when i walk shop and pointed questions i mean this and i thought maybe i hadn't been so nice myself because one of the i think only two questions i managed to get in was because i had had both google the hell out of him as you do and i'd come across a few hints and i just wanted to know more about him not about france so i so i asked him and he gave me an honest answer he said yes and then he told me about how he first came to sydney as a young man and lived in kings cross and all that sort of stuff and that was really great but then he just kept going and so i thought maybe maybe he was nervous and also. Maybe i wasn't very nice. When i asked him that question because i have been a bit more gentle about it and do you have a relationship now as such touch yes. I said sorry. And he liked that we mount and we've met up since and look he's given me answers about this switch. No one else would what he did when he did it. How many times he did it. Since giving a speech on this issue to the united nations in geneva what are you calling for in regards to this industry now of donor conceived babies. I gave a speech to the un in at the end of twenty nine as part of the first ever group of individuals actually produced by this industry donor conceived individuals and surrogacy born individuals to do so. We are calling for a whole bunch of changes. We are calling for this industry to stop and implement these changes. Stop stop. stop making children the way you're making them in order for this to be done ethically it must put the rights and the welfare of the child. I you cannot make babies anonymously. You cannot make vast batches of siblings. You cannot raise children in ignorance. You cannot just by body parts by dna through a a horrible chain of human supply and implant them in another woman. Take the baby out of her and leave the country. It's not okay. It's not okay for all of that series. You are here in your credit to society and it's a good thing in the world isn't it. Yeah for sure. I mean look. I'm enjoying myself about you guys. But the thing is like the end does not justify the means and even being the end does not justify the means. I don't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else. That is why i'm doing this. Ladies and gentlemen please think syra dingle. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with richard fidler for more conversations interviews. Please go to the website. Abc dot net dot edu slash conversations. Hi it's elizabeth cool as if you're looking for another. Abc podcast filled with fantastic true stories. I'd love it if you try listening to mind. It's cold days like these. You'll find laughs. You'll find danger heartbreak triumph of all the good stuff. These are real australian stories and everyone comes with a little twist just days like these in your favorite podcast app.

australia sarah Sarah adelaide new south wales Dingle sarah abc alan trounson sydney federal parliament south wales Ivy austrailia Deinekin Dingle richard fidler beck john south wales government Adelaide