18 Episode results for "Austin Convention Center"

TKC SXSW19 2 South By and Senior Living

The Kindle Chronicles

06:38 min | 2 years ago

TKC SXSW19 2 South By and Senior Living

"Hi, this is Julie at south by south west. And this was a TK see extra from the conference on March fourteenth. I'm walking down the hall of the Austin convention center on my way to a session about blockchain today there is programming about blockchain all day. So I'm going to have a chance to refresh my understanding of this technology, and maybe get some ideas, and whether I should bail from my experimental investment in bitcoin, I've been hoping it was going to start taking up and it's just gone nowhere since I dabbled with it. I want to talk a little bit about sessions that I attended a couple of days ago yesterday. I spent the day looking at senior communities with my cousin, Peter, and he's got a he's decided it's time for him to move from his home. He's blind. He's lives on his own and Austin, and it's a. You'll be seventy one this year. It's a good time for him to think about an alternative way of living with more community random, but the day before that there were four sessions that I attended they showed the wildly different kinds of experiences that south I south west offers, the first one was a panel of four women who are investors in technology and moderated by a guy that covers the industry. Oh, wow. I just found a nice quiet little nook here for talking to you. It was hard to follow in some ways because the women were speaking a lingo of investment technology, and but they their job is basically to spend millions of dollars on startups that are involved in the IOT internet of things area including robots. I one story that a woman told that was notable is a startup that is specializing in providing robots for as nightwatchman in offices and factories, and these are jobs that turned out to be difficult to fill with humans, and especially to get people that can be really reliably scanning and checking security ID's and things of people in these buildings also emptying the trash it turns out this woman thought it was a good start up in has invested in each of these four women his involved in trying to see what opportunities. This technology offers at a real granular level. And it gave you a feeling that. It's one thing when they're people like me talking about all this technology. And meanwhile, there are people actually moving money onto the table for things that might or might not be successful sometime in the in the next five or ten years. There was a session in one of the. Ballrooms about trust and Philo head ideas about things in an age of infinite information that help create trust lists of things here. Five software tools. You should look at among the infinite varieties and people who were offering those kinds of finite bits of information tend to be trustworthy and very useful. I hope that that's the kind of thing that is useful about the kindle chronicles. There was a session by Alexis Jones woman. I hadn't met who is charismatic worker on the topic of really relations between men and women. She does coaching of professional football players around issues of sexual abuse. And and things which are in headlines, and she's actually spending time in locker rooms having very intense conversations with men in professional sports who don't always handle the stuff. Well as is. The case in any other line of work. She really had a story to tell her parents were in the room. She's from Texas, and at the end, she indicated pretty broadly that she's thinking about running for governor. The last session that day was guy named Larry Sanger who was proposing a plan to decentralize social media, and he is one of the co founders of Wikipedia someone who's got some credibility in the space, very concerned that Facebook Twitter, these big platforms, essentially, control people's tweets posts. And he sees a future where there's open source ways to move these kinds of messages around on Facebook on Twitter on other platforms. So that you would be able to take control of the things that you're posting and other people could as well. So that there's a more decentralised method. That's more in keeping with the original vision of the internet. It's the kind of session you see sometimes at south by southwest where somebody is really putting out a manifesto or call to act. And because of the people are here it sometimes can get some traction. I think he's aiming at a a social media strike on July fourth of this year in coordination with getting together some of the leading lights and thinkers of the internet to come up with a protocol, and and a way to to make it doable. I think it's a long shot because anything that's more complicated than just putting a tweet or a message on Facebook is going to have a barrier to most of us doing it. The people were concerned about the philosophical challenges of the current setup may well be motivated motivated tried. I I'll I'll try it. See what they come up with? But it's a pretty tall. Order to move millions of people out of their comfort zone on these social media platforms towards something which arguably would probably be better. In the long run. That's it for the sector. I'm going into the buck game chain session. I've been experimented with the iphone to record these. I feel like there's quite a few choices that it's not coming across that great. I might have to shift of one of my mother other recording places, but I tried to demonstrate how easy would be to do a pug test and the knife over that coming up against some of the audio limitations of a work in progress. Talk to you soon.

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TKC 554 South By Southwest

The Kindle Chronicles

43:24 min | 2 years ago

TKC 554 South By Southwest

"Welcome to the kindle chronicles. Steve Friday podcast about your kindle books and all things Amazon. I'm Lynn Edgeley. Today's the ides of March. That's the fifteenth day of the month twenty nineteen. Greetings from Austin, Texas. I have been attending south by south west most of this week. I've also been doing some projects with my cousin Peter tight, I'm staying with him. And he's about to make a big transition into a senior community here in Austin. So we've done some of that I back and forth. From stimulating tech sessions, particularly some appearance by presidential candidates. A little tour on a CNN townhall Bennett, very full week of multidimensional activity, all of it. Pre stimulating I've managed to get enough sleep too. So I'm going to organize the show around a single topic. This is something which I picked up at one of the sessions. I'm going to be telling you about in the topic is trust. And what we will see is that you can increase the trustworthiness of your activities. With some three tips from speaker that I heard and. Talking about those you'll hear some excerpts from that particular talk, and I'm going to loop everything into consideration of trust. As a way to navigate through some of the experiences that had most impact on me here at south by south west. Let's will music and then we'll just jump right in. Good morning, everybody. Trust is complicated. That is Neil. Plus Rica in ballroom, d at the Austin convention center. That's one of the biggest venues seats hundreds of people and his was featured session title building trust in distrustful times. He is the author of the book of awesome. And he runs a website about happiness. I hadn't heard of this fellow before I walked into ballroom, deep kind of on a whim. I thought I would just wander up toward ballroom Deasy who was there and trusted something sounded interesting enough to sit down of glad I did. This is what he had to say at the intro. And then we're going to drill a little deeper. It is new is layered is not faceted. It is mysterious. It's the Ganic nebulous important thing. And it's so critical for all of us. Whether we are an artist whether we are brand, whether we are company and individual a member of family member of nonprofits critical for all of us to know how to manage and grow trust. But we live in an era with the lowest levels of trust ever recorded in decades. I think you've heard enough to catch that this is an animated speaker was very easy to listen to. He was also a very well organized speaker he had distilled his thoughts about this big topic of trust into three points. And he went through them one two three. And at the end he had a circle where all three of them were displayed. And he let it stay up there on the slides long enough. So everybody could take pictures of it with their iphones. So they'd be able to remember the three points are first finite over infinite second human over algorithm and three go all in show. All in since we are going to be spending some time with Neil's ideas. Let's give a chance to introduce them. So properly name is Neil neoplasia. I am the author of a number of books all focus on intentional living. My first book is called the book of awesome, which is all about gratitude. My most recent book is called the happiness equation, which is all about happiness. The book have coming out. This fall is all about failure and resilience and the book I'm working on today is all about trust. So let's crack in two three ways we can all learn how to build more trust today. If I had two pictures one of Neal's three points to carry with me, I think it would be this first one finite over infinite he said several times in an era of infinite choice that the value of curation skyrockets, this is instantly understandable to me when I am in front of my computer anytime during the day, like when I'm driving to work on the podcast and really get focus. This flow of information of options of music of entertainment of ideas. It's truly endless it's truly infinite. And so places where I can have a curated look at material. This is why value subscription to the Washington Post or the New York Times. My problem is I have too many subscriptions. But when I go into one of those established newspapers, the financial times, the Wall Street Journal, I'm getting curated look that has certain perspectives that I understand and trust in value at this infinite amount of news, and that value just gets very high Neil has used this idea to talk about the one thousand most formative books he's going through three books in a show on his podcast. And he he's really kind of a specialty of finding things that he takes a lot of time choosing. And then putting his choices in front of his audience in ways, which I I'm sure he is he's got all kinds of followers, and the value of it is obvious to me one example that he had is fits are. Area of interest here. And it's about the Y independent bookstores are doing so well in the age of Amazon, and maybe why over the last six years, and what we call the retail apocalypse here in the states when Amazon took over the book industry, and they have two hundred million books, and they're always the cheapest why over that exact same six year stretch the number of independent curated finite. Bookstores liked by forty percent props independent bookstores anyone in the room that's a fan like me. To who doesn't like independent bookstores tattered cover in Denver being one of my favorite examples props also to Amazon because it is also seeing the value of creation. We've from time to time had people from the books team. Their whole job is to find the best books and talk about them in highlight them on the Amazon book review blog, and now they have a podcast as well. There's a real value to be highlighting books right in the middle of all of those millions of books. I don't think it's quite a hundred million books as a bit of an exaggeration. But certainly lots of books available at Amazon one of the reasons I left to go to south by southwest each year is to find ideas and actually use them. And as I was listening to Neil talk about finite over infant. I was thinking of the kindle chronicles podcast. I think it's one of the reasons that it has been good idea for most of these years to finish the show at right about forty five minutes. It used to be forty five fifty eight I've given myself. Little slack on that. But to know that when you start the show it's gonna last forty five minutes, and then it's going to be done. There isn't going to be another one until next Friday. So it's a finite amount of material about finite number of topics, namely, kindle books and Amazon clarity of Neal's. First point makes me think that within those topics it's bills trust in with you. When I'm talking to to pick things that are most interesting to talk about used to pull my hair out as I was looking at five or ten stories about Amazon and a week, and that I had to get them all in be kind of comprehensive on those topics. But lately, and I think I would even more doing this as a result of his talk. Find the thing that I really wanna talk about that that tickles me in some kind of a way or bothers me. And then go there and have a curated way of talking about the general topics so finite over infinite. Here's what's next number two. Human over algorithm. He started this topic for the cute story about being in bed with his wife going to early one night when the kids were asleep and the next day after they'd had a night together. She says you sent me an Email at ten o'clock last night. He said, no, I was asleep next to you. That's impossible turns out he had I set up mail chimp to send out emails about his blog or his podcast or something since she his subscribed to him. She got one of the emails because of an algorithm, and it really irritated her. Because she thought that he was sending these posts out our her and the rest of his subscribers manually that he writes a post and then he hits the button when she found out. It was an algorithm there was sending her husband's a material to her. It just went down in her Steve's you didn't trust it as much. So it was a it was a clever way to introduce the topic. The second point. His actually made me feel better. Because I've always thought, gee, I should be using algorithms. I should be sending tweets out after episode and having some program to it for me or the mail chimp letters to those of you who subscribe to the kennel chronicles newsletter. I do everything manually when I finished the show. I write that letter to mail chimp. And then I sent it out myself, and I'm gonna keep doing that. So if you get something from me can be pretty sure that I hit the send but myself, it wasn't an algorithm. An alternate way of stating the second point humans over Al algorithms was brains over bots and to illustrate that he told the story of vici- the best Uber driver in the universe. I saw something that night as I was leaving the bar that I had never seen before my life. And I have never seen says. And it was this. A guy named Vish was picking me up with a four point nine nine writing and almost five thousand rides. I look everyone around me at the bottom like. I'm about to drive home. From the world greatest. Uber driver. People behind five in me. Right. And let you guys know what it's like people in the front. I'm the more high five and me right Bill. I'm excited. I'm like, this is going to be so interesting. What's going to be like is it like an old crystal in the back when it what's up? So I hope in the door and forgive the Indian accent grew up hearing it in my house and everywhere the only accent I will ever attempt. Okay. Bye opened the door. He looks me in the eye turns around he's like is it Neil Neil. I'm like it is Neil. It is real. And yet in the backseat of the car, we have this great conversation on the way home and he's funny smiling. He's got a great personality as you would expect based on the rating, and as we get close to my house. I said, you know, what vici- you might actually be the world's greatest. Uber driver. A never I think all the time. I've never seen a rating close to you. He's like is it true? Is I don't know if it's true. He's like, there's no there's no leaderboard. There's no way the check. He's all all I can see is the last five hundred ratings. I've got really can show me. He's like, yeah. Here. It's here sled shows up on the screen showing nothing but five point ratings revenge. That's an actual screen shot. He has five hundred straight. I'm like, no one's better than you. How could they be? In an era of bots. We want brains, maybe handshakes, and smiles or what are actually becoming the scarcest resources of all planned this point to the kindle chronicles isn't quite as strict as the first I don't use many algorithms. I do put the podcast out on lips. And it goes all over the world and the internet. There's some sort of automated things that happen. But one thing that has been more and more important to me over the years of doing the show is heavy chance to connect with people in person. And as an example here in Austin when I come down, I drove for an hour and a half to have lunch with Mark Roberts listener from the Dallas area. And we always have great time. We talked about politics and lots of other things, and then I drove an hour hour and a half back to Austin, I get emails from we we stay in touch. But there's nothing like sitting across a table from someone and he says, you might try the fry deep fried pickles, which I did. And they were great. It's the same with Catherine. Mom, a listener here in. Austin? I've met with several times when I've been at south by each time. You know, we don't stay in touch much in the intervening year, but because of shared interests the fact, she'd listened to the show, and we we know each other very intriguing launch. This went Kennedy. We ended up talking about her her husband died and now she's engaged. Remarried? We talked about marriage. We talked about all kinds of things that were fascinating. And she took a picture of me writing one of the scooters down the sidewalk, which greatly appreciated emails ways to touch listeners and hear from listeners. It's it's always worth the effort to make some kind of a human connection even with something. That's being distributed electrically like a podcast now, it's time for our third and final point. And this one is go all in show all in. I think I've intuitively known the value of focusing on topic, right? From the start of this show ten years ago. On the kindle, and now settling into the kindle books and all things Amazon actually listened to this part of Neal's talk, I thought well, I've got sort of three four on this show, and maybe I should pare down to two maybe the just about the kindle in books or just books Amazon, and I couldn't find one that I would willingly drop off. So I think I've pretty pretty set settled with the idea that I'm going all in on these three topics all in in the sense that it's all I talked about each week. And it's what I've talked about for ten years. So this growing time of spending on the topic is how I'm interpreting the the the goal in show all in as you'd expect. He had a good story to illustrate this third and last point about trust. I'm walking around Toronto one day. There's a neighborhood just to the west of the downtown core. Call parkdale for those that may not Toronto kind of a grittier grittier neighborhood gentrifying neighborhood. I'm walking past the dollar stores. Money Mars than I stumbled upon this place called Craig's cookies, right? Great neighborhood or to neighbor. But I'm like Greg's cookies. What does a bright yellow building? No way just sells cookies a walk into the store shore enough. This is the display looking at a photograph of what's in the displays at the store. There's no brownies. There's no tarts there's no croissants. There's no pies. It's just cookies a guy looks Minia presume, he's cranky looks. He says is a cookie time. What are you going to say? I'm like hell, yeah. It's time to chocolate. So I over to cookies he's hi, I'm Craig thanks for coming in my stories. Like, here's here's your chocolate chip cookies and touch looks. He's like you wanna shot a cold milk. They only have one drink. You can kind of see it in the background. It's just cold milk. That's it all they sell cookies and coal mill. So I leave this place, and I'm like, wow. Good luck to that guy. Like like, how are you going to pay downtown Toronto rents by selling chocolate chip cookies for three dollars a pop. I give this guy like a month. You know? But I'm such a nice guy. I'm super I'm super nice. I'm going to I'm going to send them a couple bulk orders, I'm gonna like send a couple of gift bag orders through the store. You don't try to keep them a float? So I I do that. I do that. And I go back six months later. There's a different personal to open. Second of all there's a guy behind the counter. It's not Craig and I come in. I'm like, hey, you guys are here. I'm like, this is great. I'm like, congratulations. What time I'm Neil on the guy that's been sending you the bulk orders once in a while like ice like no idea who I am. I'm like I want like a Pat on the back of one like thank you for keeping helping us pay the he's like do we do dozens of orders day? I don't I don't know how to keep Giacomo dozens of day. He's like, yeah. Like rope it Norsar. Now, we're selling ninety dozen a day before lunch. They invited us up rent free. They just want the smell of chocolate chip cookies in their store. You're still in ninety doesn't just that one store that you're not even paying rent for. He's like, yeah. Go all in. So is it kindle time. We're going to return to kneel in the conclusion of his talk, but I want to use the topic of trust to segue to another unusual aspect of south by southwest this year, and that was a lineup of presidential candidates and people kind of involved in presidential politics on both sides of the aisle more on the democratic side, then the Republican, but this was at a nice intimate theatre where Austin city lights, I believe is filmed and over the first two days, the first this is the first weekend we heard from Senator Amy klobuchar from Minnesota Bill weld, former governor from -chusetts said that he's toying with running in there as a Republican challenger to President Trump Senator Elizabeth Warren from Massachusetts, former governor John Hickenlooper from Colorado who I've been very interested in supporting John casick, former governor of Ohio who surprised people I think by saying that he has not ruled out running himself. For US secretary of housing urban development, Huiliang cuss, Castro and mayor Pete Buddha. Judge he's mayor of south bend, Indiana. And then a late addition was governor Jay is Louie of Washington state who had just announced about a week before the Saul happen. In addition. There were two candidates that were appeared that night at us CNN town hall and also people to judge was there quite light. Bring Sanders was in there. Joe Biden was there. They had tried to get both of them to come. If you if there was a way to evaluate. How all of these candidates did along with Kevin McCarthy who was is Republican House minority leader trust, you know, the there many of them are specifically addressing the divisiveness in the country and offering their solution to it, which you know, Volvo voting for them. But as. As I was watching all of these sessions, and I hadn't yet heard Neal's talk. But when I think back on who had the most impact on me who seemed to resonate with the audience. I think trust would be an example. And I think you could probably go through the three elements that Neal's talking about as a way to evaluate who's using these various tools to increase their trust level. I'll give you an example of how an evaluation by trust level might worth on one of the candidates. I listen to an interview I did about two thirds of the way through the list of candidates with Evan Smith who's head of the Texas Tribune talking about how he came to organize this event itself by south west arterial was either be declared candidate or somebody who is plausibly. Look into Ray. So in the case of governor casick who was your yesterday Saturdays. We stand here talking on Sunday morning. He's not in the race. He said yesterday cop to the fact that he's considering it which surprised to no one ultimately may not run. So it was not you didn't have to be in. You just had to be looking at it when we talked to Hickenlooper originally, and we didn't know that he would be in by the time of south west. We thought he might be considering it, and we actually had a sense that he was going to get in. But. In the case of governor Inslee who kicks off this morning as we stand here against on morning. He wasn't even into race until March first which is about a nine days ago, and we call that morning and had him committed by the afternoon and unusual aspect of the format. Was that each candidate had an hour with one interviewer in their varied folks from time magazine different publications, generally young edgy diverse. Interviewers who did a good job? I I'm always interested interviews, and I was asking Evan. What was sort of thinking on these interviews? I think as an interviewer you you you run toward the ball as well. Like it's worth right? You know, you run toward the bowl not away from it. And I think in the case of these interviews ease the ball is visible run toward the ball. Yeah. I've from Denver and interesting Hickenlooper where was the ball when you assigned his interview. Well, you know, I've known governor Hickenlooper weirdly personally for a while he his first wife was very friend. Of mine for thirty years, and I went to his wedding or strangely enough. She was writing writing for Texas monthly banks that I ended. So I we will colleagues officer boss in in those years. He he's been to our festival couple of different times. I think governor Hickenlooper Israeli guy because as the governor of state like Colorado, he's dealt with almost every issue that chief executive of sorts can deal with and he's not alone at governor Inslee in the similar sense. Governor case when he was running Hieaux same the set of experiences that have governor has different than set of experiences of Senator has chief executive model versus legislator model. He's also temperamentally a little bit more small immoderate than other people. And I think his background is small business person. Probably gives them a different perspective. Here's another excerpt of my conversation with Evan in which he's talking about the venue. It was a wonderfully lit and arranged venue amphitheater style, it could flex up to I think up to two thousand people, but on the lower level where a lot of people a lot of the candidates just fill the lower level. And it it was a good place to sit in and feel like you were overhearing a fairly intimate conversation. He puts it this way. There's an intimacy to an environment like this. I mean, we're in a very large venue and again over the course of the day. They were more people are fewer people depending on who the interviewee was. But it's a pretty intimate room and how people being interviewed at that level react in a situation. Like this in the moment is telling that's why I think the power of public conversation is. Undeniable, you know, you put somebody on a stage in front of a room full of people you ask him questions, and you see how the react. And I think that's a good measure of whether for the job. Let's go back to ballroom D because after having heard the candidates in that intimate setting when Neil was giving his talk about trust. I I wanted to know if he would have any advice for a candidate who was trying to develop trust and thinking of the methodology that he's developed and shared with us. Here's how can kind of crush of people up there at the stage after his talk and just got this brief snippet from him. You have any sense of what it means to build trust. If you're running for office and doing everything everyone the instinct in politics trying to be this gigantic wide average candidate. No, you gotta be you. Ask yourself deep in your heart deep in your values things stand for declare those things write them down both on the Levin victim unmovable unchangeable on the national let the people decide if they don't want you. That's fine. Let your values your values you live with you went on your values win ever could advice and when it comes to trust. And I was thinking about this about the candidates. I thought the fellow from Colorado did a good job generating trust because he was speaking. So humanly definitely not an algorithm in touch with the most human emotions when he was talking about the difficulties of being in the restaurant business and being in politics when he has a condition called face blindness. And this is where the brain is simply not wired to retain information about the configuration of a face to the point where he can recognize. People. I had a friend in college whose brother was terrible car accident on the Massachusetts turnpike, and he had that same condition and for years, we just learned that when we talked to link we had to tell him who we were even as he was looking at us, and I was surprised to find out the John Hickenlooper has the same condition. He told a. Interesting aspect of it. He said that he had learned basically to hack this condition and still function in these very outward facing professions and in the restaurant business. He realized that if someone could tell that he didn't recognize them. They would be offended as though somebody that knew very well. And so he would present to each person that came into restaurant as if he knew them, and he couldn't overdo it because it was sort of strangely. Oh, hey, how are you lend than this? And they didn't know a mole that would be odd. But he generated a sort of default of looking forward to seeing every person because he thought well, some of these people I'm supposed to know, and the others that I don't know aren't going to mind being greeted in such a friendly way. And then his other conditions dyslexia any talked about that. So in this intimate setting of theater, he put out some fairly personal information that I think probably. The effect of generating some trust the one that did really well in that feature in the CNN town hall was the south bend, Indiana, mayor Pete Buddha, judge, and here's a clip where Jake tapper is asking him the topic is healthcare in you'll have the the tail end of that. And then it goes into something which get fairly personal and was kind of holding my breath wondering, you know, can this guy talk about this? So recently after his loss and for three seven year old young man, he he did pretty well. And it's become very personal for me too. Because we lost my father a few weeks ago. And it was it was the cancer. It was a brutally difficult time for our family. I make decisions for a living. And I was not prepared for some of the decisions that we fixed in consultation with the medical team. But what I'll say is the decisions that that we made only had to be about what was medically. Right for dad, and what was right for our family. We didn't have to think about whether our family would be financially ruined because of Medicare, and I want that to be available that kind of security that kind of freedom frankly to be available to every American. I just wanna take moment. I want to ask you about your bother Joseph. We're going to the audience picture of him. He was an English professor at Notre Dame. He passed away in January just few days after you announced you're exploring a presidential bid. I just wanted to take a moment to honor as memory and also ask you, what did he think about running for president? He was excited. He he came to this country from Malta this tiny nation, someone place footage as a common name. And he came here for the educational opportunities that this country offered then he became an American citizen after that he believed in education, he believed in this country. But also was very passionate about all the ways it was falling short. And so I don't think he ever guessed that I'd be doing this. Frankly, we didn't either until about a year ago. But when I was getting ready to make the announcement. He was already in pretty rough shape was intimated at that point. And I wasn't sure about whether to go, but I knew he wanted to happen. And so I said, you know, hope I'll make you proud and and he mouthed around the around the tube. You will. And and I think we are like to think we are. I'm sure you're making him proud Pete Buddha. Jesuits the third candidate that was featured at the town hall. The first candidate John Delaney was someone for whom I had submitted a question online. This was before I left. Enver? And I saw that. This town hall was going to be held there. They said, you know, submit questions for the audience, maybe you'll be picked and I got a call here. Peter's house the night before the town hall from producer CNN saying we have chosen your question. And we'd like you to ask it at the town hall of former congressman Delaney this pretty cool. So get there at the appointed time, and there was a seat with my name on it and kind of producer floor person who explained how this was going to work. They gave me a printed out copy of the question that I had submitted quite a lot of care went into this. If you watch these town halls I had to sign a statement saying guest. This wasn't fact the question that I had submitted protecting themselves against anybody that might suspect that their questions that are planted. But yes, it was my question. And when the time came for me to leave my seat Annette ask my question, the producer came and tapped me, and she had shown me. There was a kind of a cross Mark in tape on the floor. And I went to stand there as the person on the left side of the stages. Face the stage was finishing up their question. So I'm standing there in the lights on I've got my little piece of paper. And I wanna make sure that I get it. Right. And then the next thing, I know this is what I hear. I wanna bring in Len edge relief from Denver, Colorado. He's a retired natural gas executive lent. I congressman you have been visiting with voters for a year now. And I wonder what advantage. Do you think that will give you now that many others are entering the race? So I guess I didn't clear the field is what you're saying. Listen, I think it's a huge advantage. Right. Because I've had an opportunity to listen to people not only about an opportunity introduced myself to folks, but I've really had enough listen to so that was my moment on CNN went out live all over the world at one of the thing that showed the precision of this event was as Mike question was approaching. I, you know, pretty lease a fifty fifty chance Jake tapper is going to be talking about Len Ed girly. That's a common mispronunciation by name. But Katie the woman that was kind of my handler came up to me about five minutes before my question came to how do you pronounce your name, and she had a an earpiece, and I guess at some point before Jake was calling my name she had explained to him that I said, it's Edger Lee soft g edge, really? And and that's how he pronounced it. If you've listened to the show for few years, I think you'll remember probably two or three years ago virtual reality or VR made a big splash. And I remember that there was a VR gallery. Probably at the Marriott. No. There was at the Hilton. At that time before the Marriott was built. And you could go in that time there maybe five or six booths and you could put on the VR headsets there. The old clunky ones that had to have a smartphone in it, and you could watch VR movie, and I watched one, and it was pretty cool. Well, now two three years down the road of VR. There was a much larger area. I'd maybe there were twenty different booze of of people that were showing VR productions, and I had some extra time before my supper with Bryant person. So I picked a line that wasn't too long said BBC. Well, this has got to be quality. And it was it was a six minute production set in world. Or one it was animated, but the animation was very lifelike was realistic animation. That was on the topic of field, postcards, and these were postcards with soldiers in World War One could send to home in Britain, simply indicating that they were live. They couldn't put any messages on their. But when one of these postcards would arrive at someone's home sure would bring great joy to know that as of the time it was sent the the loved one was alive. Well in this experience, you find yourself once you're settled in with a headset. And you've got the headphones and all your in a trench. And if you look up with your head UC barbed wire, and it's a very eerie feeling to magin what it was like in those trenches heard about trench warfare World War One. But I've never actually been in anything that was a reproduction of one and with VR. That's exactly where you are. The other scene is in a home looks. Like a middle class home in England. And it's a hallway and these field, postcards, are sort of flying toward you. And you're you're getting the feeling of how many of these were sent from the front to the homes, and at one point a postman brings one of the cards, and it's kind of handing it to you the trust aspect of it. I think is a dimension of VR, and I've heard people in the past it's an empathy machine. So that when you're plopped down in the middle of scene, and especially if it's a film scene. So the you're actually seeing real people around you as opposed to animation. The the it's eerie because you have so much more empathy for the people in whatever the scene is happening in this animated one the trust had to do with being located in the physical environment. I think another way that you could use Neal's test for how to increase trust was the simplicity of it that it was a finite number. Of impressions or information about World War One. You could there's so many ways that you could portray were one. This is about one simple thing field, postcards, and it's all about that. So it's a finite image of an infinite tragedy and catastrophe in human history after I saw the experience on my headset. As I was leaving somebody mentioned that the producer or a producer. I guess was they're able to talk. So I talked briefly. And here's here's some excerpts of what she had to say. My name is and I'm of for company fifty nine production based so we have created a via project by something guy. Put nothing to be. It's an amazing variance fights on one indication assets that were made during what will one it's based on field. Scott. It's cold in the way of quick. Communication in what will one between soldiers on the front line and people by because it was multiple choice. There was no need for censorship on the on the postcards. So they used to be able to accept very quickly. If anything was written on the postcards other than the multiple choice options. It would just be destroyed. So soldiers you use it. So that they can communicate very quickly to tell the families and loved ones that they were still alive. Schmidt with a quick away. The other way and one way. About nine they could send letters and Postles back again, go through the censorship person bit flow. But it was it was just one way from the from soldiers to people that sell them to the really. We're getting close to the end of my consideration of trust it south by southwest as I was going to the conference. I was also spending some time with my cousin Peter because he has decided that it's a good time for him to move into a community of people. He's been living on his own here in Austin. He's blind. And he doesn't amazing job of living independently. But you know, it's I think there's some loneliness to it. It's a challenging way to live for anyone as they get into their advanced years. He's a couple years older than I am going to be seventy one this year. So we've is it a couple of places, and there's some trust here in this part of the story as well that didn't have to south by south west. But it got me thinking about it, and we had an unusual experience because we we went to one place, and we both liked it. The folks were friendly, and it was a pleasant. Space in the unit that he was looking at it didn't have such good walking capabilities, and that's really important to them. So we then went to a related facility that's actually run by the same company. And we each had the same sense that it was a heavier environment. It was just didn't have the informality the life the spontaneity of the first one. And this is all being picked up by our senses because we're we're being toured around and we had a launch and the marketing people were fantastic, they were answering all our questions and giving all the information. But as going on there's this other channel of sensory information, which were both reading the character, the sanctuary or they ambiance of the place. And when we had a chance to compare notes together with each other, we both boy just something heavy about this place. And I was because I could see there was heavy furniture in the lobby. Looked kind of like a big old hotel as opposed to community. And I was picking this up mainly through visual clues Peter was getting the exact same information about this place. He has an incredible sense of sound, and maybe some of the Rome or whatever. But but mainly in sound, and we marvelled that we had both come up with the same assessment of on base. Kind of our six senses actually are are shared actual senses. Even though we were getting such different information coming in because he's he's blind. And I'm not. I think you can trust that. And when you are picking up information on channels other than the facts and figures how much is the unit gonna cost what's the square footage. All of the information was coming to us. But we were both picking up some pretty accurate information that we could trust on the other dimension the other trust part of that story is what we went back to the first place. The woman Debbie Holly, wonderful marketing person at the first place. Peter had mentioned that he loves to cook. And he does he he loves the grill steak, and when we're together we we have some great meals because he is a little scary for me to watch him out there with his hands over the grill to touch the stakes and the flames are flying up. He's. Assessing how on the stakes are by his hands. But he does love to cook. Well, we got back Debbie Holly, the market person had a bag for him. And it was kind of a gift bag with tissue paper. She somehow. Well, we were gone for a couple of hours head located a two volume, Betty Crocker cookbook. In braille and I was really touch minute. I thought you know, she's doing your job as she hopes that Peter will move into the community. But what if thoughtful thing to do and what a tangible thing she did that it helped? I think did help us both trust her as someone that would be good to deal with an it helped us to get a feeling for the character of this community. And if all goes, well and the rest of my trip here, I think that the next time I come visit Peter out by south west. He's going to be in this great community and the one of the rooms will have guest bit. And it's another place to stay next year next week. I will be back in Denver. I fly. Back on Monday. And I've got some interviews sort of bunched up together, but they're going to be available for you to hear during the next three weeks. Austin Qiliang has a new book out. He's a big star of past south by southwest. This one's title. Keep going ten ways to stay creative in good times and bad L. Also be talking with Michael j Sullivan who writes fantasy novels very successful self-published novelist, and then call Needham who is the founder of IM db the movie database that was acquired by Amazon. So sometimes I'm scrambling early in the week to find interview. So it's going to be nice to have interviews signed up for the next few weeks. I think I've got to do two or three of these interviews all next week. So I'm going to be doing some preparation in a scramble when I get back to Denver seem be good to be back on ten days and staying in touch with early. The echo show. I took the little echoes spot with me. So I've got it at my pets. High table can drop in under lean with the echo show on my desk. Well, I hope even -joyed this little unusual tour of south by southwest through the lens of trust. And I'd like to conclude with the stirring, conclusion of Neil pest Rica's talk in ballroom de I feel so grateful to be able to come to south by southwest each year to kind of veteran at this point. And I I hope you've enjoyed this version of it. And I look forward to returning next year the final choice the final question, which is what kind of world. Do we want to live in the we wanna live in this low trust world that we're in right now, we're all we're trying to do with other upgrade our Email lists. In our walking billboards, we see attention spans. We see eyeballs we see brains. We see monetize everything, you know. Saw billboard just down the street this morning. It's like this is how these companies see you and stuff human figures dollar signs that the world we wanna live in this bag and endless infinite algorithm. Ick world of low trust or do we want to add back some human connection? Do we want to stand up for what we believe in and tell people that clearly we wanna go all in on that. Do we want to have finite offerings be clear about what we're passionate about? Let our passions lead us and put them out there. And do we wanna live in a world with more compassion, and more empathy and a lot more trust? I help you. Join me and saying yes, thank you so much for your time today.

Amazon Austin Neil Neil Peter Neal Denver John Hickenlooper CNN Colorado producer town hall Toronto Steve Evan Smith Texas kindle Craig CNN town hall south bend Austin convention center
International Women's Month: Alexandra Rochester & Kendi Nderitu

The Moth

15:42 min | 2 years ago

International Women's Month: Alexandra Rochester & Kendi Nderitu

"Tame off listeners. Are you an educator who's heading down to south by southwest EDU? This March make sure to stop by our open mic story, slam at the Austin convention center, Tuesday, March fifth for more information, check out the south by southwest EDU website. We hope to see you there. Hey, all this is Catherine burns, the moths artistic director. I have exciting news. Our new book is about to be released. It's called occasional magic true stories about facing the impossible Scott stories from some of our biggest names, including Adam gopnik, Krista Tippett, Andrew Solomon, Rosanne cash. Fear Eisenberg and Wang ping with an introduction by Meg Willett, sir. But his us so you'll also hear stories from fifteen year old Savio life in Chicago. A mother of triplets trekking to the North Pole and the ninety year old Russian man talking about his standoff with the KGB at the risk of insufferably tooting. Our own horn, we've already gotten a few good reviews Qurqus refers to captivating artfully raw tales heartfelt stories bear eloquent witness to hopes dreams and try. Jumps and booklets rights each story is captivating as the one before it if the MAs live events were full of people gently holding their beating hearts up to the Mike and for the breathless audience these written adaptations, definitely do such sacrifices Justice. The book is available for preorder right now. If you love books pre ordering is important because it shows publisher is what readers would love more of what they're excited about. So if you love them off and books and stories it would be a huge help to us. If you consider pre ordering thank you all for listening. Welcome. To the moth podcast. I'm Dan Kennedy. And on this episode. We're celebrating international women's month with two stories from two incredible women on opposite sides of the world. I up Alexandra Rochester, she's from England. But she actually told this story at the moth story slam in Nashville while she was traveling. The theme of the night was education. Here's alexandra. When I graduated from university. The only thing that I knew for sure was the I did not want to get a real job. So I moved to western Canada to become a ski instructor the requirements to teach small children how to ski on a mountain pretty minimal. You can take a six week course to make sure that you can ski pretty well. And you learn a few other words other than pizza and French fry which flows view that don't know those are the shapes that your feet make as they go down the mountain. And then after that, you are responsible for eight small erratic excitable clumsy whining tired adorable children, and that was my job, and I had to keep them safe and not kill them on a mountain in which it frequently reach temperatures of Sierra degrees Fahrenheit. The winds was strong enough to blow me over and you frequently had the experience of skiing inside a cloud, and it has to make this fun because that's what kids care about. But I also had to make this. I had to make them good. Skiers because their parents are paying a lot of money for these lessons. My favorite class was a group of eight seven year old girls, they all will pink in poeple ski jackets and love to talk about their American gulls and Taylor swift a lot, and we will be f s pretty much all the time. But every time I was able to give one of the girls a specific piece of praise for how she was skiing, and I couldn't give it to another girl. 'cause she just wasn't there yet because kids learn at different speeds, and that's totally fine. It was challenging thing to experience and watch in these tiny little innocent goals. And then it was time for them to ski black diamonds, which the more technical steeper runs, and he would quake in that uncomfortable. Plastic ski boots, and they would ski with them mittens in their mouths because they were so scared and I needed to figure out a way that they would be more subtle of without. Just being based purely on my praise. So I turned to my more experience male colleagues, and they said competition they need to want to beat somebody else. So the only way walks every time. This did not sit. Well with me. I must ski instructing is a male dominated industry would that be roughly seven male instructors to everyone female, I had been taught by mail ski instructors to be aggressive and to want the biggest fastest Nali steepest line whilst also competing for who had the best tons shape. If I simply said, I had a fun day skiing. It would be countered with. Yeah. But I found the most snow and had the best day. I was tired of competing. I was tired of it feeling like skiing was about being better than somebody else. And I didn't want these girls to think they will only good if they were better than somebody else. And the skiing was something that you had to be praised for because when I ski on these frozen water molecules down these forty five degree angles slopes. I feel like I'm flying. And that's what I wanted to be for them for them. And so I struggle with this for a couple of weeks, and then on one of them any child rides in which we had decided that Katy Perry's role was how best sung. It hit me. And then I hit play so on every child after every onto the right after that, we listen to Katy Perry's role, we Desta Taylor SWIFT's. Fearless. And we sung along with Sarah barrels is brave and I didn't explain to the girls while we were doing this. They just thought I was the witnessed and was singing ski instructor they'd ever met. And then I took them to the talk of a black diamond run. It was the kind of run where it just drops off the side of a cliff, and you can see all of the ice and rocks and bumps that may well lead to you breaking a leg and all these teeny tiny little girls said he wanna siskiyou that. I said, no, I know you can ski that you know, how to pole plant, you know, how to control your timeshare. You are brave you will fail us, and you will roll. And then I made them roll just to get the points across and then we all skied it, and they all nailed it. Everyone of them. And I've seen a lot of smiles on kids faces and there's a specific kind of smile, they got when they've got two scoops of ice cream or they've met. Mickey Mouse had fun. But that day, I got to see the smile when they realized they'd access there and superpowers, and that they could do something anything in that moment, and that was really magical for me to see. And then the smile, I got sick of when I went back to my male colleagues and said that I did know it their advice, and I had taken Taylor SWIFT's. That was a pretty special smile from ET. That was Alexandra Rochester Alexandra intended to ski instruct in Whistler, British Columbia for six months. But of course, she's still living there. Eight years later retired from instructing. She's now a Baker a radio producer and a writer. She's currently working on a novel about the highs and lows of living in the peculiar mountain town that she calls home. You can see some photos of Alexandra hitting the slopes in the extras for this episode on our site, the moth dot org up next. We have candy and debris to Kennedy came to the moth through our global community program. And she actually told this story at a moth night during the UN general assembly. Here's candy live at the mall. It's dusk. And the night is quickly falling my mother, and I I will king Dona. Dusty roads, we have Jerry cans attend in such clean water. This dream is about a kilometer away. I can hear grumbling under her breath, which tells me she hates the village life as much as I do you. See I was born as Toco. I lived in the city for twelve years. The move from the city was certain. My mother explained that we ran out of resources, and so could not sustain an urban life. This is the first month in the village. That realities of the village at different we have to walk long distances to tend to the from where we have to stay in their homes because there's no electricity. This city had flowing tap water. That was somac- though, our story buildings I thrived in the city. The kids of the village. Do not make settling in the village. Very easy. They would mock and tease me at fast. It was that I did not speak the local language too. Well, and so they would point it me make faces and mimic me, then they'd break out into outright laughter. They love to pick on my forehead. They said it was big their aim to Ellen. It me with time. They became even more aggressive bay tante physical. One time. They threw stones at me and stone hit my head. When out get too close to them, though, showed me to the side of the times. They would charge at me hoping to scam me enough to run away. I learned quickly that I needed a tickets out of the village. And I understood that he was going to be education. And so for the year that followed I it myself in books. The more. They believe me they had I studied foiled by the passion to live in disengage from the village. I set myself a goal come November nineteen Ninety-three. I was required to seat for key examination. The kenya. Certificate of primary education to move from junior to senior school, then a month later in December, the cabinet secretary for education would come to national television and invites all peoples to pick their results the following day that night I had left being that. I studied some fifty kilometers away from home the easiest way for me to pick. My resorts was by calling. It's a that. I used a house phone to call which we didn't have our I use the public telephone which was some two kilometers away from home. And so on the morning of the big day. I made my way up the Tomek that I remember as one of the hardest talks of how to make in life. I was anxious worried tense. What if I didn't do too? Well, what if I was confined to life in the village? Like I had done so many other times in the last month. I made mental tabulating of what I expected my results would be and as he was already known publicly that the highest call in that exam in the village was four hundred and fifty four max out of a possible. Seven hundred an equivalence of ABI minus. I wondered what would Meyer results be? At this point. I could see the telephone across the road. Not too far. It was housed in red metallic booth around. It were big chunky trees I crossed the tarmac and on opening the booth stepping in I say that with prayer. I then raised the receiver. And with shaky fingers. Dell the number that being given. It was relieved to hear the dial on the other end and uneven beget relieved to hear a gentle voice invite me to state how they could help me. I went on to give my index number which was my unique identifier. And I requested that they read out the results for me. I repeated the score just to be sure that I had had the right thing. And so I say too loud this call five hundred which was a nuclear balance of an a minus. As soon as I did, I had a loud applause around me. I looked around and I saw about ten kids of the village unknown. To me the kids had walked up the tarmac before me, and they had heathen themselves behind the booth behind the building behind the trees, and as they made their with towards me in celebration. And in shook this time, not laughing and not teasing me. And I still confused. I remember that moment because they made me an instant village hero in. This was the first time that I had known the joy of achievement. The joy of success. I understood then the power of being celebrated it is this time that I understood very well, and even greater the payoff of Hedrick and the pill of excellence, I got admission into the school, my dreams that moment steady pace for the rest of my life. Thank you. Pending. Kendy is worked in IT industry for over fourteen years, and she's the founder of she goes tech where she coaches and mentors girls to take up science related careers. She's also an instructor now in the moths global community program, teaching storytelling workshops, all over Africa and South Asia, gender, equity and women's rights are always part of the work that we do here at the moth, and you can find more global stories of women and girls on our website, the moth dot org. Also, a quick reminder. The launch of the moths third book occasional magic is quickly approaching the book comes out Tuesday March nineteenth you can pre-order it on our site the moth dot org. You can if you so desire read my story about the last time. I went to therapy. It's got quite a twist in the ending, no spoilers. But I think therapy, and I have made a clean break that's going to do it this time around we're going to be back soon with some more new stories until then from all of us here. At the moth have a story worthy week, Dan. Kennedy is the author of loser goes I rock on American spirit. He's also a regular host and storyteller. With the moth podcast production by Julia per cell and Paul Roux. West. The moth podcast is presented by PR X, the public radio exchange helping make public radio more public at PR x dot org.

Dan Kennedy Desta Taylor SWIFT instructor Katy Perry Catherine burns EDU Austin convention center ski North Pole Alexandra Rochester Alexandra Qurqus Alexandra Rochester Mike publisher Nashville Adam gopnik Savio Meg Willett Canada KGB
Friday, July 24, 2020

NBC Nightly News

22:44 min | 1 year ago

Friday, July 24, 2020

"Tonight the southern surge of the pandemic deaths and hospitalizations as in four states, one top public health official warning, there are now several New York's McDonald's latest major chain, mandating masks in which cities will now issue tickets if you don't wear one the CDC's new school reopening guidance what it says, parents and schools need to do to keep everyone safe, but doesn't go far enough plus my exclusive with the. The head of the country's second largest school district. What will he do to make? Sure students don't fall behind behind the president's abrupt convention retreat in the surprising admission. What president trump says he now regrets the panic on a passenger plane why the pilots said it would nosedive, and could this spark new showdown with Iran as the unemployment prices rages on white millions of Americans may soon face eviction. Potentially life-saving discovery, the viewer email that led a reporter to discover she had cancer her message tonight, and the latest on the triple tropical frat bearing down this weekend. This is NBC nightly news with Lester Holt. Good evening. It wasn't that long ago. The rest of the nation watched in horror as new. York became the epicenter of the Cova Crisis at one point losing hundreds of lives a day well tonight. Health officials say some of the country's biggest states are becoming the next. New. York's simply overwhelmed by the virus at while there are positive signs in some of those hotspots. Officials are doubling down on efforts to get Americans to change their behavior to slow the spread. We have all the latest starting with Miguel Almaguer. Setting daily records for the number of Americans who lose their lives require hospitalization, and who are testing positive for the corona virus tonight states like California Florida. Texas and Arizona are now becoming the next New York according to white. House officials. We have to change our behavior now before this virus completely moves back up through the north this first way that we see now across Florida Texas, California and Arizona. Arizona began with under thirty year old in while there are signs of a possible plateau in some of the nation's new hotspots. Those on the front line are overwhelmed in his exhausting I. Think we're all in sort of crisis mode right now as Texas approaches four hundred thousand cases, the Austin Convention Center could be needed to house the sick in small communities. Funeral directors say the reality is Graham. Do Seven to twelve cases a month. With about two families a week, I'm right now at each firmly in about with Ford five families a day to protect the public today. McDonald's and retailers like bed bath, and beyond joined dozens of others requiring masks in stores. They now from California who operate with us to Florida tickets are being issued to those who refuse to comply. I'm praying and symbol. Painted every measure being taken done to protect the nation from another shutdown in every community from another. In California alone. Noriega died in a nursing home where one hundred eighteen people were infected. I felt my grandmother was failed. In many in many ways by the system. Granddaughter Claudio Rampal Says Covid Inflicts The loneliest of deaths. There's never any going back. She's gone and she lived her final months alone tonight. One family's loss amid a national struggle Miguel Almaguer NBC News, Angeles, I'm Kristen Dahlgren with just weeks to go until school begins. The CDC is laying out its guidelines pressing districts to welcome students back in person, encouraging cloth, face, coverings, hand, hygiene, and disinfecting often spacing out students to maintain social distancing, even repurposing unused buildings are holding classes outside keeping groups of. Of students in cohorts or pods together throughout the day, the new guidelines address downsides of remote learning and benefits of in person classes at cove. It poses a relatively low risk to kids, but also noting sixty four children in the US have died since the pandemic began teenagers has a children aged attention nineteen seemed to transmit the virus. At least the same ratios adults, so there's nothing to suggest. The children don't have says some evidence to suggest that the youngest children the less likely to transmit it. The new guidelines come just weeks after president trump urged the CDC to ease its preliminary recommendations, which he called too restrictive so angry if it's not safe enough. GOP delegates to be hundreds in the convention space. Then, how is it safe enough in Florida? For children be hundreds in a school this week. The president acknowledged some areas considered hotspots might have to delay reopening while asking Congress to pass a relief bill with more than one hundred billion dollars for schools that do reopen. If the school is close, the money should follow the student while the decision to reopen up to states and school districts. The decision on whether students go back will ultimately be up to parents Kristen Dahlgren NBC News New York. Those new CDC guidelines are not forcing a change for one of the largest school systems that recently announced online learning only for the start of the school year today I spoke with the Superintendent of the Los. Angeles Unified School district about the decision to keep classrooms here clost. Los Angeles, home to the second largest school district in the country, and among the first to decide not to bring students back this fall. Was this a tough call or at the end of the day? You look at the numbers and say we can't do it. It's an incredibly tough call because we understand students need to be in school, but we can't compromise on the health and safety. Safety School Community Austin Butte has run LA unified school since two thousand, eighteen, a massive district with nearly fourteen hundred schools, seven hundred thousand students, eighty percent of them living below the poverty line, compounding the pandemics pressure on children. The CDC has come up with new guidance, regarding schools and Cova. They lean heavily into the notion that kids need to be back in the classroom. There are dangerous. To them if they don't get back in the classroom, has any of what you've read? Cause you to rethink your position to do school online. No, we all agree back in school as soon as possible. And if you look at what the CDC guidance says, the community has to be safe. You gotta be within the boundaries of the world. Health. Organization guidelines to think about going back to school right now in Los Angeles. Rates are still skyrocketing the level. Those testing positive is twice the world health. Organization guidelines so the CDC itself says if the community is not ready, it's not ready when school is closed in March butte nerve. The son of a teacher jumped into action because half the students lacked access to computers, and a quarter had no internet. The district provided both for every child who needed them as. As well as nearly fifty million meals at grabbing, go centers and to prevent the summer slide summer classes got creative. Yeah, this is Aleisha eight lists book club on Snapchat with the Lisa keys, and other celebrities features their favorite books. Students can download for free extraordinary and accomplished people and kids get music lessons through a partnership with Fender Guitar, an all out effort to keep kids engaged. What's your level of concern that the kids right now who've been told they're going to be home indefinitely that they won't be able to catch up. We have great concern, which is why this fall in addition to online learning, we're gonNA offer individual tutoring both online and in person. We're GONNA. Do everything we can to try to help. Students catch up when the kids do. Come back There's going to be certain fear level not only for the kids, but the faculty. You got one thing that hasn't gotten enough. Attention is the mental health crisis that's coming with the education crisis. Students being the trauma back to school. Someone in the family might become sick or God forbid passed away. It's only my Lahser job. The mental health aspect of being back in school will be as great a challenges learning challenge being back in school. Superintendent says a key to returning to class will be distancing hygiene protocols, but also frequent testing and contact tracing of students and staff one day after President, trump cancelled rip the Republican convention events in Florida tonight. His campaign is scrambling to reshape it into a persuasive virtual. Kristen welker is at the White House with more president trump signing executive order beamed lowering prescription drug costs go joined by Florida's governor, but making no mention of his abrupt decision to cancel his convention speech in the Sunshine State NBC News has learned behind the scenes. Officials are in an urgent effort to replan the big night. The goal is for the president to deliver his speech on a stage somewhere. The location is still a work in progress hasn't decided that just yet, but we have a number of really creative exciting options that he's looking at it to see a Republican briefed on the matter also tells NBC News in the days leading up to the speech there will be a mix of video and virtual presentations by top surrogate, but the question will republicans able to recreate the pomp and pageantry. The president relishes by humbly and gratefully accept. Your nomination. For the president of the United States. In April the President Mocked Democrats for deciding to hold virtual convention tweeting of Joe Biden now. He wants a virtual convention one where he doesn't have to show up. Gee, I wonder why meanwhile it comes as the president was asked about his tweets during an interview aired today. Do Ever tweet out and be like wake up at all man I, wish it. Often too often as before this year. Write a letter and you say this is really been you. Put It on your desk, and then you go back tomorrow and you say Oh, I'm glad I didn't send it right, but we don't do that with twitter to Republicans. Sources tell NBC News donors have given more than forty million dollars to convention efforts in both Jacksonville and Charlotte North Carolina where the speech was originally scheduled. It's unclear what if anything gets reimbursed lesser. Kristen welker tonight. Thanks, health experts say the key to beating the virus mass testing, but labs are backed up delaying results by days even weeks in some cases. So, what's the problem Tom Castillo went looking for answers? In Florida today five more federal sites opened up amid the nation's building backlog for Kobe tests, while the results are usually back in just over four days, it can take up to two weeks. None of us are going to be happy until that's under forty eight hours. But we're making all our efforts to do that. Why the delay the samples are sent to labs for technicians use reagents special chemicals to look for the virus, the mayoclinic process ten thousand samples nationwide every day challenge. We have right now. Is having the the reagents or the chemicals we need to run. The tests are actually in short supply, so we can't. We can't run them to their maximum these there is a faster test almost like the strep test you taken. A doctor's office results in a few minutes. The NIH spending one and a half a billion dollars to roll out rapid test equipment nationwide, while the FDA requires test to be at least eighty percent accurate. Accurate the fast test also come with a higher rate of false negatives implored the entire Shapiro. Family needs to negative back-to-back tests before seven-year-old Ana can undergo surgery to have her tonsils removed. They've now had six tests in three weeks some coming back negative than positive on the same day. That's a three week period that they're asking people to stay and not do anything now be around. Anybody else and put your life on hold. Offer questionable test result HHS. The country is now processing more than seven hundred thousand tests every single day. A quarter of those are the rapid tests the plan now send out even more including one to every nursing home in the country Lester. Tom Coastal this evening. Thank you now. The panic inside an Iranian passenger plane descending abruptly after Iran claims a U. S. fighter jet got way too close to it. The Pentagon is now responding to those claims. We get more from our Richard Engel. The meet the press. Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics, the twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things we usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast. Hey, everyone, it's Chris, as you know these days i. find it helpful to just take a step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader look at the issues I haven't had time to cover on my TV show in everything from the legacy of racism in America to how community and creativity can flourish amidst a pandemic to how Democrats could win and deep. Red America I do each week on my podcast. Wise is happening and joined. Joined by uniquely qualified guests like Pulitzer Prize winning reporter Nicole Hannah Jones. Progress does not mean justice or equality or that we are right after four hundred years of black people being in this country, the time remarking incremental progress in putting ourselves on the back for that has been long over author Rebecca Solnit. How we take care of each other in the context of not being able to physically be with each other in ordinary ways, crooked media's Jon, favreau, it's going to be the highest turnout election history, which means that it is a persuasion game and many others who helped me make sense of what's happening in our society and our world I really enjoy our conversations I hope you will. Join me for new episodes. Every Tuesday just search for wise is happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe. It's not the view Iranian. Passengers were expecting out their windows a runny in state. TV says this is an American F fifteen fighter coming in for an inspection so close they say the Iranian pilot was forced to descend rapidly. Passengers feared the worst. No one was seriously hurt our Rusi is in Tehran Iran's foreign ministers, labeling the US as quote, a bunch of outlaws that must be stopped while other officials here branded the incident as an act of terrorism, but the US says the American jet was over a half a mile away from the Iranian aircraft, doing a brief visual inspection in accordance with Inter national standards, because the Iranian plane was flying near a US base in Syria. The last time tensions were this high was back in January when Ron fearing attack accidentally shot down a passenger plane, killing one hundred seventy six people less to Richard Angle tonight, thanks in sixty seconds why millions having trouble paying rent during the pandemic may soon face evictions, plus what a sharp I viewers saw and the message that may have saved a life. Back now with our continued look at inequality in America, tonight more uncertainty for so many who are struggling to make ends meet as a federal law, protecting millions of Americans from eviction will expire. Are Stephanie Gospel Explains? For some hit hardest by the COVID crisis tonight, the roof above their heads may be the next thing. They lose about being a victim due to over nineteen. And Right now, I'm just don't know. Exactly what's GONNA become a massive. I'm just. Sitting waiting, trying to figure things out for the past four months, the cares act has protected. Natasha Blunt from eviction the New Orleans grandmother says she can't make her rent is. We are not lost. Madaba won't lost everything else. No money. No, not in I came I. Don't sleep well. Afterward about stuff that. But the cares activation program, covering twelve point, three million rentals and tonight, and there are two thousand nine states that have no additional protections. Eviction notices go out as early as tomorrow with a thirty day. Notice to vacate in New Orleans, a law firm, representing clients like Blunt for free has noticed a trend, the vast majority of our clients are low income black single moms. I would say probably. More than ninety percent definitely looking at this from a racial equity lens is really important because we're going to see. A lot more pain in those in those communities, twenty percent of white renters. They're worried. They can't pay next month's rent. While than forty percent of Hispanic and black renters have the same concerns eve. Nothing's done. Do you see the possibility of a new wave of homelessness because of this? That's. Absolutely and that's a huge concern, and again knowing the supports. And systems that were in place even prior to Kogo were insufficient to support the people that were already there I won't give up. I won't give own despite her will. Natasha Blunt says she may still end up in a shelter is so painful. It'd be used as society one one day and the next thing you know I'm not news this to everybody. She has her health now left to worry what life will be like without a Home Stephanie NBC News. Anxious heartbreaking moments so many Americans as so many of us pay attention to the pandemic during a TV news report, one viewer in Florida was paying attention to something else, and it turns out. That may have saved a life. Here's an Thomson. About this week's now. Investigative reporter Victoria Prices Focus Governor there. A senior citizen who was kicked out of this press doctor Hanser. No, it's all about the other seaward these days, but it is cancer. That wfl viewer thought she spotted on prices neck, June. Afford worked. A number of quick stints wrote in an email, please. Have your thyroid checked. Reminds me of my neck. Mine turned out to be cancer. Almost dismiss the email. It was like Oh! Oh was weird, weird lighting, my life shot. I very easily could have ignored this and I'm really glad I did. Can you find the lump on near Knack that she saw know? It's funny it it's it's gotTa. Be Right here. What she still can't see in the mirror. The doctor diagnosed thyroid cancer that spread to a few lymph nodes shocking, the twenty eight year old. My has been on a global health crisis. Now own house during the pandemic one third of US adults put off routine healthcare in April price says she's living proof. Healthcare cat wait if something feels funny especially when you're younger and you like to think you're invincible, you're not and if someone saying, go get some being checked out. You should probably do just like inside edition's Deborah. Norville a disaster and HDTV's Tarek El. El Moussa, who were alerted to their thyroid cancers by viewers, price is ever thankful Victoria. Do you think the viewer saved Your Life? I would like to think so. Who knows what would have happened? If she had emailed me so I'd like to think so price will undergo surgery Monday and hopes to be back the following week and telling the story we'll instead of being. And Thomson NBC News. Up next say threat closing in this weekend. Back with triple threat of storms as we head into the weekend Dylan Dryer is tracking them force Dylan. What's coming our way? Good evening. Are Active. We have a hurricane out in your Hawaii. That's Hurricane Douglas. We also have a tropical storm Gonzalo in the Caribbean, but we're really focused on tropical storm Hanna. It's in the Gulf of Mexico already, producing some heavier bands of rain along the Gulf coast, and as this continues to move to the West pretty slowly, it will likely strengthen to a category one hurricane before it makes landfall south of Corpus Christi Tomorrow Afternoon. We could also see up to a foot of rain across southern Texas lots of concerns going into the weekend lester. Dryer, thank you next the great divide that made them huge lottery winners. You now some people sometimes say we'll split if we win. Never thinking will actually happen welfare to longtime friends. It did yours Katie back. Twenty two million dollars and I said you in my bobber. Stunning prize tight. You promise between longtime friend, Tom Cook and Joseph Fini. Whatever the winner finish splitting, so we buy every week and you know. That, really thinking it would happen. That happened many years ago. Continuing almost twenty chicks hatchet man. That handshake was in nineteen, ninety-two three decades of trying their Wisconsin Lottery luck and finally last month. We've got forty one. Fifty four, a wind split in half experience I read them I, two or three numbers of that. Kind of. Both men now retired and ready for the good life got grandchildren great grandchildren. Our contain. Spend time with them. I can't think of a better way to retire. You can't pick the winning numbers, but lucky for all of us. You can pick true friends these to hit the Jackpot on both counts Katie back NBC News. Boy What are the odds that is nightly news. Thank you for watching everyone I'm Lester Holt please take care of yourself and each other good night? Everyone. It's Lester. Holt thank you for listening. Now I want to invite you to talk to us here at NBC News We'd like to know more about you and the topics. You'd be interested in about as we look to launch new PODCASTS, text podcasts two six, six, eight, six six, and we'll text you a link to a short survey again text the word podcast, two six, six, eight, six six standard text messaging rates apply your input matters. We're looking forward to hearing from you.

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The Moth Radio Hour: Cartoons, Cleanups, and Close Calls

The Moth

50:44 min | 2 years ago

The Moth Radio Hour: Cartoons, Cleanups, and Close Calls

"Tame off listeners. Are you an educator who's heading down to south by southwest EDU? This March make sure to stop by our open mic story, slam at the Austin convention center, Tuesday, March fifth for more information, check out the south by southwest EDU website. We hope to see you there. From this is the moth radio hour. I'm Jennifer Hickson from the moss. The moth is true stories told live and all citizens of earth are invited to take part. The storytellers never use a script. No cheat sheets visual aids or PowerPoint in this hour will hear four stories a teacher who's well-meaning attempt to charity is a flop a rags to riches story a frightening encounter late night in a park. And this first story about finding your place in the world. Matt dippy told the story for us at a show called around the bend in Los Angeles. Here's mac. So when I was a little kid, and I I heard the term musical chairs. I thought it was going to be a lot more exciting than it turned out to be right? It's just a dumb game. There's the chairs are musical at all. I was similarly disappointed with a couple of other terms baggage carousel. And even Nazi party. The problem with musical chairs is it's a terrible game. It's it's not fun. It's just stressful. I don't know why we do this to children. I mean, the only good thing about it. Is it sort of prepares them for the harsh brutalities of adult life because it's like that at least at the beginning. Everyone wants to sit down and there's just not enough chairs. Good thing about the games it only lasts a couple of seconds in real life. It gonna last longer in my life. That frantic scramble lasted seven years. Ms started the day. I graduated from college. I realized the music had stopped. See I had two problems. I I had a BS degree. And I mean that in both senses of the term I had a degree in art. I think we can all agree. That's kind of a BS degree, right? And my mind or what didn't help at all. I was a creative writing minor. And for me that was always comedy writing. So art and comedy, those are the two things I wanted to do. And that brings me my second problem. I grew up in the rural in rural Texas, and then later North Carolina, and I'm not going to say that it's harder to pursue comedy. And art in the rural south. But it is harder to pursue art in comedy in the rural sound the same reason. You don't hear about a lot of little girls in the upper east side of Manhattan grown up to be champion barrel. Racers it's just hard to find the beginning of the path. But you know, you don't know what you don't know. So I took off running after it. I painted every day. I tried to peddle paintings of friends and neighbors tried to get them in galleries. I got them in restaurants. Yeah. It nothing happened. I also presumed comedy at the same time. I had a comedy team. We did open. Mic nights did have chose everywhere. We could I don't have to tell you guys. How it went nothing ever happened. Eventually the other guys wised up and got real jobs, and I was on my own trying to do stand up and trying to write plays and everything I could do another one was working and nothing was making me a dime. So obviously had the the long string of crappy day jobs. Anyone I was a waiter. Obviously what's worse than that. I was a waiter at Applebee's worst two weeks in my life. I was more suited for outdoor work. So I did all kinds of construction, and I did asphalt repair and ceiling, and this isn't one hundred degree weather hundred percent humidity. It was terrible. The best actual crappy job I ever had. And this might surprise. You was when I was a night shift clerk in a convenience store gas station out by the interstate. You know, those I'm serious. It was actually the best job. I ever had sure I had to mop up and stock the coolers and had to clean the bathrooms. Yeah. But about two thirty after that was done. I had the place to myself until seven AM pretty much long haul truckers waffle house waitresses. But it's basically just me and stack of books notebook to write in. I had endless coffee free slurpee. He's come on. I even had those greasy convenience store hotdogs, you know, spending in the rotisserie if I ever wanted one never did. I will tell you something about those hotdogs, I never touched them. I never took the old ones off, and I never put new ones on as far as I know. No one ever did that I'm pretty sure those weenies came with the machine. And that's basically how I spent my twenty s twenty two twenty three twenty four twenty five twenty six. Yeah. Twenty-seven undefeatable twenty eight crap twenty nine I'm twenty nine years old. I'm still trying still nothing's happening. I just wanted to chair to sit in and I didn't wanna lazy. Boy, right. I wanted to work chair one of those tasks chairs, I just wanted to chance to do the thing that I thought I could do I know there's people out here who can relate. The twenty nine nothing one night about midnight. I'm doing what I always do at that time. I'm watching Letterman me and Letterman gotten through a lot of hard years, I watch Letterman. So religiously that when for some reason, I pick up the remote control and I start flipping through the channels. I realized I don't have any idea what comes on at this time of night. 'cause I always watch Letterman. It's like four in television. I'm like and Finally I rest on Nightline because they're doing a special feature on these cartoonists from a magazine out east called the New Yorker. This is because the New Yorker is about to publish its first ever cartoon issue. Whole whole issue about cartoons. So I stopped and I watch this. And I was like. I know you guys are probably familiar with the universe. I was not I told you I grew up in Texas. My family didn't subscribe to the New Yorker, we weren't communists. So. For me cartooning was always just kind of googly eyed greeting card kind of thing, you know, what I'm talking about. I didn't want it. You know, it's not funny more punchy than funny. But this was different. Suddenly, I was looking at something. And it was it was very similar to the, you know, the streamlined one liner jokes that I admired from people like, you know, Woody Allen and Stephen Wright and the art was different. It wasn't like generic cartoon character each one was different. It was art. It was comedy. And art, I'm thinking. Now in this. This this show, you how significant I realized this was I grabbed a VHS tape and threw it in the VCR and push record. So many guys remember those, and then I watched the tape over and over the next few days and I freeze framed it, and I studied like what kind of pencils? They were using. And then when this special issue came out went out and grabbed the issue off the newsstand just really poured over it memorized it and in that magazine there was under nouncement for cartoon contest. That was sponsored by the New Yorker and the Algan hotel in New York. Interesting. You had to and this was four of the New Yorker started doing the caption contests in the back, and this one you had to do everything the cartoon the whole thing both parts, and it has to be about hotel life. I didn't know what that was still don't really. But one thing I did know is that I was going to enter this contest. So for a couple of weeks. That's all I worked on. I went to the library checked out a bunch of those old cartoon collection books. Poured over them. And I remember one of those cartoons stood out to me was George booth. Some of you probably know is work. It's always that draws single lightbulb hanging from the ceiling, and the old crazy country people and the dog somebody do anyway, I love the drawings, and I love the jokes. But what really stood out to me with the fact that this rural sensibility felt so perfect in this sophisticated city slicker magazine, I filed that away and a few weeks later when the deadline came for the contest, I sent my ideas in a couple of weeks later, I heard that I was one of the three finalists. Crazy. Right. So me and my high school buddy got to fly to New York City. They put us in the outgun hotel. We walked in. There's the hell conklin oak round table, and the walls are all dark wood paneling and copper lamp shades. And we didn't actually say it out loud. But I'm pretty sure are closed and the looks on our faces where like go Lee. And I'll tell you this in the in the hotel, and the the they have custom one of a kind wallpaper in the hallways and stairwells and stuff, and it is made of old classic New Yorker cartoonist cartoons. I was thinking this is really a thing. I'm getting into here. So the big day came and I put on my good duds. And I went down to the ceremony, and I met Roz chest, and I met Sam gross and some of the other legendary cartoonist, and I bet Bob man, cough. He's the cartoon editor at the magazine. And he was the juror of this contest. So he was about to present the grand prize to one of the three finalists, and it turned out to be me. And the prize was this giant styrofoam check that I got to give to charity. I was thinking the same thing. We were posing Bob here in me here, and we're posing they're taking photos, and I was really thinking, you know, I bet my construction worker fingers could probably take it Sissy literary fingers, and I could probably yank this thing and make a break for there. I started thinking, you know, it's a revolving door to the street. I don't know how that would work. And even if I did get through. I don't know. How do you cash? Check won't fit in the slot. Lob it over the plexiglas. Anyway. So I reluctantly let go the check. But my real prize came about an hour later we remain bling. And when I say mingle, I mean, I was standing in the corner alone and Bob bankowa came up. And he said so have you ever submitted cartoons to the magazine and I- resisted saying, you know, not only have I never submitted cartoons the cartoons. You saw the first cartoons. I've ever done. In my twenty nine years on earth. And instead, I just said, no. And he said two magic words he said you should. And he might as well have said open sesame because that's the effect. That those words had there was like a wushu air, and this big iron door, the New Yorker cracked open, just as much you best believe that's the tip of my bootleg, gap, pastor and caffeinated Jack rabbit. I just went full Texan on you. I'm sorry is everyone. Okay. Let's just move on. So when I got back home, that's all I did was cartoon, no, more art, no more comedy. It was all about the mash up, but those two things my two greatest passions and up until that point my two most frustrating failures. So for that week. I worked all these ideas. I took the best three and drew him up. And I sent him to the New Yorker. I didn't hear anything back. So I did it again we to nothing week three nothing. We four nothing week five. I got a letter someone you remember those. There's a letter that said I had sold a cartoon to the New Yorker magazine. I don't know if I can explain how it felt. But if you can imagine being on your feet for seven years walk in and work in and waiting, and then somebody pushing up a nice big comfy chair, you wouldn't be far off. So after you, sell your first cartoon, you're allowed to come into the offices and deliver your your batch of cartoons in person. So I did that I came all the way to New York City, and I sat across the desk from Bob, man, cough, and I handed him, you know, my three cartoons for the week. And that's when he told me that the rest of the cartoonists were doing ten a week. Good to know. So I was I was going to impress him. So I went home, and I started doing fifteen a week every week. I did that for a full year fifteen every week in that first year so four, but I was elated because I finally found a place to be I'd found my home. And I remember that very moment when I felt that it was that I visited New Yorker I'd seen Bob, and I was coming down in the elevator. All by myself grinning, ear to ear may have done a little Jake. I'm not sure I can't verify. But I love to think that somewhere like in the basement of that building. There's some security camera footage of this twenty nine year old kid just smiling for no reason, and I get to the bottom and the doors open and there's George booth standing there. And I reached out my hand at Georgia's like seventy he's kinda tall goofy kinda graceful. He's from zuri. I'm looking at him. And I'm thinking you I'm hoping that I'm looking into my future. And I reach out my hand. And I say, hi, Mr. Boothe, I met just sold. My first cartoon, and he said the perfect things to me. He said he shook my hand and kind of raise an eyebrow goofy like that. And he said well, welcome aboard. And that's the very moment. When I knew I'd finally found my seat. Thank you very much. What was big? I met him at a show. We did celebrating the New Yorker magazine will you can pretty regularly see his cartoons. But also keep an eye out for his book hand-drawn jokes for smart attractive, people to see a picture of Matt with one of his heroes cartoonist George booth. Visit the radio extras page at the moth dot org, while they're you can share any of the stories you hearing on this hour with your friends and family. We're also on Facebook and Twitter at the mall. In a moment. Move your about one kid he stumped when she's asked to use vacuum cleaner and another who has to adjust to her mom's new boyfriend and new lifestyle. With the new Capital One saver card. You can earn four percent cashback on dining and entertainment. That means four percent on checking out that new restaurant everyone's talking about and four percent on watching your team win at home. You'll also earn two percent cashback at grocery stores and one percent on all other purchases. Now when you go out you cash in what's in your wallet? This is the moth radio hour from PR ex. I'm Jennifer Hickson from them off. Our next story comes from a moth story slam which is a competition. Each teller interprets the theme of the evening with a true story from their lives and judges from the audience choose a winner. The theme for this story slam in Seattle with fish out of water each Jomo allure chose to talk about her fifth grade teacher who's good intentions kind of backfired. Here's e Jomo allu-. I was in the fifth grade when my teacher asked me if I wanted to come to her house after school and work on a special project. No, any friendless overachiever. This is a dream come true. So I said yes before I even knew what the project was. But it was really confused when she told me that the project was to help clean her house for a party. She was having. Now, this was really confusing because she of all people should know. I don't clean my desk was always overflowing with paper and pencil shavings. And there was always a good chance. You could find an old sandwich shoved under a book. But I had already committed I could make this work. I showed up at her house. She walked into the living room, and it was like a palace compared to our apartment. She walked over to the closet opened the door pulled out a vacuum. And said why don't we start with the vacuuming? She started to walk up stairs, you guys complete panic. I had never used a vacuum before. Let me explain a little bit about my house. My mom was a single parent. She worked night shift, and my brother, and I often fended for ourselves. We would make different concoctions in the microwave out of different food Bank food than we would squat in the living room floor, and if we had cable, we would watch TV then we would leave the dishes there. The dog would clean them up. Sometimes if my mom was feeling playful, you would have a water fight and living room, and then he would just go to laundry mountain over in the hallway and grab some towels to clean up any extra mess. Now, we did clean a little we would make space for dance contests, and the weekends kinda push everything out to the edges and once a year. We would have the section eight inspection, which was really more of a frantic throw everything in the dumpster as fast as possible than real cleaning. So I was definitely out of my element. But like I said, I was really determined. It took me about ten minutes to figure out how to even get like the handle to turn down. So I could push the vacuum. But I figured it out. And I basically just pushed the vacuum in is circle. For like twenty minutes in this little patch of the living room. But my teacher had said that she would pay me to do this. So I had to earn my keep so I figured cleaned the couch next and people vacuum couches. Right. You just. Just I picked up the vacuum. Stuck it on the couch and kind of pushed it back and forth. I stopped that second time that I got her curtains. Stuck in the vacuum? Knocked over a few vases. And after about forty five minutes. I really started wonder what was I doing here? I mean, this place was already clean really clean and she needed. It cleaner. Is was this thing that people did they just cleaned for no reason? And after a little time. I started to kind of feel uncomfortable. Really? You know, I was not earning whatever she was giving me, and I kind of wanted to go home. And after about an hour. She came down and said, my mom was going to be there soon. My mom showed up, and we watched the door and she had me fifty dollars. Fifty dollars for basically, destroying her curtains and. Pushing a vacuum in a circle for an hour. My mom looked really nervous and kind of relieved. But she definitely didn't look happy. We walked past my teachers, shiny Saab. And I noticed for the first time how beat up my old hand-me-down Honda looked. We drove home. We didn't talk much about it. It was after that that kind of started to notice the comments that people would say our house was dirty and sometimes the lights didn't work are close. We're funny. I started be embarrassed of the mustard sandwiches that my mom would pack for lunch, and she would wrap them in paper and draw a little cartoons on them because my friends all had lunch Ables. I stopped inviting people over. Part of the reason why I'm telling you guys this is because I am thirty three year old woman with a job a degree to good kids friends, but I still don't know how to cume. I have a vacuum. Because that's a thing that grownups have. But I would have to like move the laundry in order to be able to the vacuum. And that's just not happening at this stage of the game. Now don't have dishes on my floor. They live in the sink. We're dishes. Go. But people don't know this about me because I don't let anybody come over to my house. But I think what I'm starting to realize is that my teachers weird act of charity. It didn't reveal any truth to me. It revealed a lie and the truth is what I had known before that day, our house was dark, cold, sometimes and messy and chaotic, but it was full of dance, contests and weird food competitions. It was full of water fights and laughter and love. And I hope one day I will be able to invite people in and you guys can come take a break from your orderly lives, and I'll make some room on the floor. We'll have a picnic and when we're done we can just leave the dishes for later. It's totally cool. Maybe we'll have a dance contest. My kids have some sweet moves. But before you leave if one of you could teach me how to use my vacuum. I would really appreciate it. Allu-? She's a writer blogger arts, advocate, parents and occasional dance party host. Pitcher every Jomo as a kid. Visit the radio experts page at the moth dot org. Next. We're going to hear a story from Tara Clancy. We met her at one of our New York City story slams where she took the crowd by storm with their textbook New York accent since then she's told many memorable stories about growing up in queens, working in our ankles bar her father, the ex-cop her big Italian American family on one side her big Irish American family on the other. But here's one about a whole other aspect of our life. Here's Tarik Lansing. All right. So I am a fifth generation native New Yorker. And while there is certainly something cool about that. There is also actually a down saw right? There was a moment when it occurred to me that while many other American families, also I fully ended in New York for the most part, you know, at some point they kept going, you know. In high in nearing their way, a little more than the rags on their backs and all of that, you know, when meanwhile, it's like my own family. You got off a boat to two steps and good enough for me forever. All of that is to say, I come from a place where you know, discovering. The great unknown means New Jersey. But. Okay. But seriously. It didn't take me too long to realize that the reason for that was mostly fear. And that that fear pervaded everything where you live what you do for a living. You know, you find the first solid thing. And you don't risk going any further, but as it would wind up, my mother was something of a pioneer herself. Although not without her share of false starts. So at twenty years old, she had hardly been outside of Brooklyn. And when she did finally leave a year later, it was only because she married a cop from queens. Which she then called the country. They had a navy me. But by the time, I was to they had divorced. And so to make a little extra money afterwards. She had to take on a weekend job cleaning apartments. And so the very first was this duplex with Manhattan, skyline views filled with interior and artwork. But as it winds up, it would be last because over the course of a year, she would go from being the cleaning lady to the secretary to the girlfriend of the multimillionaire who owned it named Mark. That's true. So they never end up living together full-time they were both divorced. It's always sort of been there done that. But also, my mom had this philosophy. Which was if you take someone's money, you have to take their advice, you know. And so when it came to raise it, you really she said, you know, I wanted to do it my way which had to mean on my dime. So she would go on to spend every weekend with him. And then every week day back home in queens living this dual life for the next twenty two years. And on the weekends. When I wasn't with my dad. I was I was right. The with her together mom, and I would become like super women, you know, able to jump social strata single bound. So so because of my mom's plan, my life was never very different than anybody around. It wasn't like sent to some elite private school or move to a penthouse. And so I just I grew into you a typical queen's teenager. You know, why I smoke blunts, and I drank forties at one of my best friends in high school. You know, I was walking cliche. In every way, except for the fact that I still spend every odd weekend talking with this art collecting croquet playing. Brilliant. If pretty intimidating man at his mansion in the Hamptons. And when I say talking, I actually really mean it like I don't just mean like we made a little chitchat. I mean that after dinner every odd Saturday night for twenty years. He would ask me some enormous question. Right. He would say if I told you that the universe was infinite, you know, that it had. No. And how would that make you feel? And for that. I was like five years older. I cooked. I actually. I lived for really. And we would just we would go on for hours and hours. And finally, you know, my mother would she just kind of leave us to it, you know, and eventually she'd she'd come back in and she'd be like are you going to talk about the moon the stars all night? And that's actually what she came to call them our moon and stars talks. So at sixteen like all teenagers. You know, I didn't want to be away from my friends for five minutes. Let alone a whole weekend. So I called Mark. And I asked if I could bring them to the Hamptons. Ring. Mark speaking. Hi, it's Tara and I bring my friends next weekend. That'd be fine. Click. He wasn't one for small talk. So he was not the problem. What the problem was was at some of my friends had no idea about any of this. Now that's not because I was trying to hide it. It's really because the details weren't exactly easy to slip into conversation. You know, they'd be like, hey, tarry wanna go smoke and drink on the corner. I haven't been discussing you Hudson river school painter over dinner bridge. I'm but what the hell? Truly. I was I was about telling them the only the only thing I can kind of compare it to is like is coming out. You know, I I would just be like I have to tell you something. And I I hope you find it in your heart to me. But I. I. No, rich guy. What truly it was awkward because you know, I really wanted them to come. But I also didn't want them to be embarrassed. You know, so I sort of I had I had to explain. And so literally like here I be in the school yard, you know, and in what one side kids would be beating the crap out of each other. That's how do recess in queens. And then on the other side. I'd be huddled up with my friend Lynette trying to explain, you know, antique. Before you know, it the. Me when they had her boyfriend rob piled into the back of his like red hoop div flying down the highway heading from Hollis to the right and just put for brevity sake. Let's just say that rob is like Eminem. And then the next like an Italian Rosie Peretz. They are in the front. I'm in the back. And now as getting closer, I'm getting a little more nervous than I'm thinking of all these things to explain. And I'm like, oh, did I tell you about the catch up? The what you can't put the catch up bottle on the table you where do you put it on the floor? No, listen, you have you got to take the catch up out of the bottle. You gotta put in the little bow with a spoon. Okay. Remember that? Right. And then oh, oh, I didn't tell you this. There's no TV there. Dear god. All he's got the biggest reaction, you know. What does he do all day like in queens most diverse place in the world? Like, the one thing. Everybody has in common is perpetually blaring TVs. Anyway. So that would that would lead me to have to explain what we did after dinner. Instead of watching TV which was the talks the moon and stars talks. And like I said, I really love them, but they weren't actually for the faint of heart. Meaning that Mark did not care if you some kid on accustomed to this type of thing, you know, he talked and he argued with you like you were his peer, and he fully expected you to keep up. And so I was not sure if my friends were going to be into that he was going to be into them. But to late there, we are pulling into the driveway. So the most shocking thing you I saw at marks marks place wasn't the hand laid stone pool or even the regulation croquet court or the five bedroom historic farmhouse. It was Mark himself. He was six foot ten. Again, six foot ten you know, I mean, everyone just want to look at it. Like is that a man or is that oaktree wearing chino? All right. So likely because my friends ignored my stupid paranoia. And would just themselves day went without a hitch. But still that night we finished up dinner. I couldn't help but to be little nervous again as I knew the questions were coming. So he says. Presuming we can fix all of this -ociety ills right here. And now where would you begin? Go. It mcknight. Like you have to understand that. Nobody is asking us these kinds of questions. Right. I mean, and maybe, you know, sure, we're at an age where you may be starting to think big picture, you know, be starting to think about you know, what you are going to do for a living. But it's also like we come from a place where it always felt like they were only two job options, you know, cop not a cop, you know, a meaning. It was like, you know, like, you'll parents the first solid city job that came along when you and you held on for dear life, when you proud of you to give best that you did for around, you know, so solving society's ill. You know, doesn't get you a pension, right? I mean, we this more at the things. So so I kind of look away kind of looked down. Then I hear rob say something, and I look up, and then they see the net kind of disagrees with God. And then I see that you know, Mark is nodding along and it's on. Just like that. And not just that one time they would be may anymore moon and stars talks over the years. You know, and in a way. It was a beautiful thing in another way is a little bit sad. Because I think what most of us would tell you now is that those talks forever change the way we thought of ourselves, you know, those talks sort of made us think that maybe there was a little more to us than we knew. And for some of my friends, certainly not all but for some and definitely for me. They even made you think well shit, right? If if a talking about these big things, and you know, be the universe is infinite then see there's gotta be more job options and bus dri-. But but really I think that win we stood at that. Same crossroads is our parents had I think it was experience that gave us something that unfortunately, they didn't have. And that's just the confidence to know that we had a choice. And so here I am today. Living in a whole of the world Manhattan. Whopping twenty minutes away from where I grew up. But that is not because of fear. That's my choice. Thank you. That was tariff Clancy. We caught up with Tara and her mom after the show. We asked her mom Tara has always been such a wreck on tour. She's been telling stories and she's a little kid. Yeah. To see some pictures of Tara's, mom, Mark. And Tara's friends from the neighborhood, go to our website, the moth dot org and be sure to look out for tears book, the Clancy's of queens. When we come back a woman walking through a park late at night and. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go or hiring is simple fast. And smart that place is ZipRecruiter ZipRecruiter sends your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they don't stop there with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. And right now moth listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash moth. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. This is the moth radio hour from PR ex. I'm Jennifer Hickson from them off people often ask what makes a great storyteller. There's this assumption that storytellers boisterous and animated. But some of the people we find to tell stories are by nature pretty shy. Our next storyteller. Nancy Fenton considers herself an introvert and yet she held the room in rapt silence. I've always admired how she got us all to lean into here. Every last word she told his. Sorry for a show in New York City called smoke and mirrors stories of fact versus fiction, I should mention this story was told in the year two thousand when you were young and didn't have the best reporting. Here's Nancy Fenton live at the mall. Summer after my junior year of college. I was ready for big adventure. Move to New York City found a sublet and Inwood got a job in talian restaurant and try back as the world's shi'as bartender. The regular used to lean over the bar and try to draw me out. So every night after work late at night. I'd take the train up to N Y like two hundred something blocks, then I'd walk through these really quiet streets to my building some nights that was really creepy. But I actually wasn't afraid because I worked out my own protection system every night on the train. I'd spin these stories in my head different details, but always the same plot me versus the rapist. And just by my wits and incredible internal strength. I always one. Some nights when I was really pissed off at the world. I'd imagine it like this. I just look inside myself and dredge up every bit of anger that I've stored since the womb and hurl it in his face. And in the face of this huge and incredible anger just run away. Most nights. I took the opposite tack though. And I would just imagine myself being so good so calm. And so kind that nobody could ever hurt me. Three summers later, I was living in Norway waitressing again at a sweatshop of a restaurant. It was a cold bleak summer with the sky hanging like this far over my head and just broken up. With a boyfriend is working all the time. Trying to save some money to go travel and find myself or something again. The night it happened. We'd all gone out for one in the waitresses birthdays. And it was like three in the morning. We're standing in front of the bar figuring out how everyone was getting home. Nobody was going my way. I remember one nice guy offered to take me in his cab and loop around and drop me off. I said now with all right? I'll walk. I always walk. I remember it was a quiet night because I was wearing these new leather shoes. And after when converse high tops for three years. I was really proud of these leather shoes way they'd make a sound on the concrete. And I was so proud of him. I'd worn this little miniskirt to show them off. So I walked through the lighted shopping street and up this residential hill. I lived out on the back side of the hill. Top of the hill. There was this red brick church with a little park in front of it. And it was surrounded by buildings that looked like houses, but the next day when I went back there, I realized they were university building. So they were empty at night. I was crossing this little park when for the first time in my life. I understood what people meant when they say time froze because I still have this millisecond in my mind frozen there and inside it is one sound sound of somebody else's shoes behind me running. And one thought if the grabs me, I'll kick them hard with my new shoes. But it was only a millisecond because I never got time to turn my head around before. There was an arm around my neck and body pest up behind me every muscle in my body clenched. I just wanted to hurt him. But nothing moved. So I moved to plan b pride Lewis begging. Please don't hurt me. I said, please don't hurt me. Please. I'll do you want. I'll do anything you want. Just don't hurt me. He dragged me closer to some bushes and threw me on the ground and lay down on top of me, and immediately he took one arm and shoved my face to one side. So I never looked at his face. And with the other hand, he started to tear it my clothes. And somehow when I was on the ground, the panic started to lower just a little bit and a little bit of my brain lead up. And I started thinking. Started in probably the least neurotic moment of my life. I started taking in only essential information and translating into action. I knew two things I think he must have said something though, I don't remember what. Because I had this idea that he wasn't Norwegian. Maybe he had an American accent. And the other thing I knew is that it was different from the man and the story I wrote the story he had focused directed violence and rage. But this guy was just all over the place. I couldn't see him. But it's movements were jerky and weird, and he just seemed chaotic and kind of desperate. So I started talking in a mixture of English and Norwegian just trying to fund the language that reach him. And I started to try to cut through the chaos and just calm him down. It's okay. I said, it's okay. It's all right. Everything's gonna be. Alright. I know believe me, it's okay. I heard something rip. But I still felt covered up. I couldn't see myself or him. Luckily, I was wearing this vintage dress of the material with good seems and I was wearing thick black tights because that's what you were Norwegian summer. What do you want? I said what do you want? What do you really want? This isn't it? I know this is an it. Tell me what you want. I've no idea how long I'd been lying with him sort of struggling and tugging. But. And I was completely scared. And I knew that he could do what they wanted that. I still had no power in this situation. But still part of it. It just started to seem like I'd been there. A long time and started to seem awkward and my dick Yetlis kid. Just not good at this. I guess he started struggling harder because the arm that was leaning on my neck to push my face aside. Started to Lincoln harder. I started to feel like I was choking. Could you please move your arm? I said 'cause I'm having some trouble breathing. And I know you don't really want to hurt me. Then everything changed. He answered me one word. He okay, he said, and he jumped up, and I jumped up, and I had this Swiss army shoulder bag on any grabbed one strap and he pulled. I'm without thinking. I mean, I guess I was winning. I grabbed the other strap and pulled and he let go and he ran. So this would be a good place for the story to end. This is about where it ended when I wrote it down. Unfortunately, it's not the real story and. Few weeks later. I was cleaning my house and listening to the radio on the local news. I heard this ten second news report, a young woman had been raped in front of the church on the hill by a stocky blond haired foreign. Same guy. I didn't tell the police. I didn't do what I could have done to protect this woman. And the worst thing is one of the things I felt and I heard this news report. It's a little bit of satisfaction. See when I wrote the story. It was all clear I've played both parts I knew what was in their heads. And I knew that this woman had made a connection with this man and used her power to get rid of them. Somehow when it happened at almost seemed less real than the than the written story. And I just didn't get it. You know was he was he did. I did. I really make a connection. Did. I did my plan really work. And when I heard the news report, I knew. I worked I'd done. It. So I thought about it a lot I thought about why didn't go to the police, and I know at the time I told myself that I hadn't really seen as face, and it wouldn't do any good because I couldn't describe them. But that was bullshit. And I know that part of me felt that the police would just say what a stupid woman for walking home so late and drunk and alone and a mini skirt. But could have gotten over that. And I think the real reason is that I was just so used to spending these stories in my head. I was just so wrapped up and in my version, you know, my power against the world, and how it affected me that. I just didn't stop to realize that it wasn't only my story. That was Nancy into. She's a writer editor in mother of two. She lives in Brooklyn. If any of the stories, you hear debate inspired you to share one of your own please pitch us, but number to call is eight seven seven seven nine nine mock or you can do it right on our website. We listened to all of the pitches and lots of them end up stories on our stages. Here's a pitch. We liked. I was born on October twenty nine nine hundred twenty nine a day, the stock market crash that should integrate depression. My dad worked in a Bank. And I guess my parents didn't see the handwriting on the wall because they went ahead and made another baby a boy born about the time to banks where closed my dad died in nineteen thirty six leaving thirty four year old mother with seven kids age five to fifteen there were no food stamps are welfare checks in those days. So wants us to went to live with family friends who needed a nanny and one sister and two brothers went to orphan schools, and I remained at home along with the two oldest girls under the influence. I guess of Oliver twist. And the Cinderella stories. I used to fantasize kindly old woman would take me under her wing and take care of me. Because I didn't think of was doing a very good job of that. It didn't happen that way. Exactly. But in two two in two thousand and ten I got an enormous bequest from very unlikely source, and the interesting thing is that I now get to play my fantasy in reverse that is I get to be the little old lady benefactor to young people in need. Remember, you can pick your own story at the moth dot org. That's it. For this episode of the moth radio hour. We hope you'll join us next time. Hostess our was the most senior producer, Jennifer Hickson. Jen also directed the stories in the show along with Joey zander's the rest of the most direct toil staff includes Catherine burns, Sarah Haberman, Sarah, Austin, genetics make bows and Maggie Sinoe production support from Whitney Jones, Kirsty Bennett, and Geno. Pifer moth stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers the pitch in this hour came from Dorothy Sedley events are recorded by argot studios in New York City supervised by Paul blue west or theme music is by the drift other music in this hour from the Chandler Travis philharmonic. He nor with Natasha, Glenn Gould and the Carolina chocolate drops links to all the music. We play on the moth radio hour or available at our website. The moth is produced for radio by me. Jay Allison at Atlantic pub. Media in woods hole Massachusetts with help in Vicky Merrick this hour was produced with funds from the corporation for public broadcasting the National Endowment for the arts. And the John D and Catherine T MacArthur foundation committed to building a more just for an peaceful. The moth radio hour is presented by the public radio exchange p r x dot org for more about our podcast for information on pitching your own story and everything else. Go to our website, dumb off dot org.

New York City queens Tara Clancy Jennifer Hickson Mark Manhattan New Yorker magazine Jomo allu George booth Texas Matt dippy Nancy Fenton Bob bankowa Austin convention center Brooklyn writer EDU Letterman editor
1166: "Tacorista"

No Agenda

3:04:14 hr | 2 years ago

1166: "Tacorista"

"Why you like him. This is no good adam. Curry john's devora thursday august twenty second nineteen. This is your award-winning. Keep our nation media assassination episode episode eleven sixty six. This is no agenda now available in streaming stereo broadcasting live from the opportunities thirty three in austin texas capital throwing star stating the morning everybody. I'm at occurring from northern silicon valley where it's surprisingly balmy today. I'm john seat of balmy balmy now. <hes> it's not supposed to be balmy. Hey there that's probably just a cloud of steaming poop could be and will you. Please stop tweeting that we've been i do you keep tweeting. Send people tend the homeless to austin. I'm doing him a favor. No steve austin to face no in his opening. It's arms. Why are you such grumpy big us reopening its arms to them to the poor homeless and they you know and they welcome so i. I'm just trying to get the word out. We do not want your homeless and by the way they come here and you bake on the street. You know hey there's a glimmer of hope in austin if a slight glimmer of hope okay <hes> if you live in texas and you're anywhere but austin someone says bay what you from you say i'm from texas. They wear in texas. You say austin texas exactly what they say but i think the liberal austin austin local government mayor the city council. I think that they're just not as when we say liberal. They're not like california liberals that they understand. Maybe not maybe it's not even them. Maybe it's the people of austin they're revolting against against what's going on here. Is you recall several weeks ago. The council voted unanimously. I believe to remove all city ordinances as of camping where except for of course in front of city hall or the capitol building but you can pretty much camp anywhere else not in a city city park but anywhere else you want to on the media and on the right side of the road you can do whatever you want. You can panhandle in front of bus bus. Stop school. <hes> school grounds anywhere anywhere you want and that was manned freedom. Actually that was fifty days ago longer than i thought but now l. things have changed two months after voting to allow sitting lying in camping in public places city leaders are tweaking the rules. No one wants anybody anybody camping anywhere in our city today mayor steve adler and council members out of six page proposal aimed to solve problems of people experiencing homelessness in the city. I've lived in austin my whole life and my beautiful city is a mess in heat from ulan is one. That's it's funny. You say that i heard this second time. I played it and does sound like her doesn't it but no it's not my whole life and my beautiful city is is a mess in a hate kim. Bouncer mu-lin is one of hundreds of outspoken austin knight's asking council to change the sit like camp ordinance. She says it's caused does the public safety risk and health hazard whereas it that that people should should not be camping in sitting in line in the report mayor adler answers those questions proposing the increased restrictions on people who camp adjacent to roadways or medians on sidewalks near creeks or in front of the arch. He also suggests a renewed focus on creating new housing options but says the changes won't be possible without community input and support. Are we really ready to do it. It takes to actually solve list problem. The this guy gets my goat. You know all the evers. Are we all ready to solve the problem do we. How can we come together. The fuck you adler go do something oh disguise so annoying the can we all come to get your supposed to lead dips. It won't be possible without community input and support. Are we really ready to do what it takes to actually solve this problem rather rather than just chasing it around the city and hiding it and the next couple of weeks councils expecting more concrete proposals on changing this ordinance also also tomorrow morning at ten o'clock. There will be a public townhall right here at the austin convention center. It is open to the public. It's your chance to ask a city leaders. There's questions directly about this homeless issue so i look at this six page proposal in they're clueless the outline propose principal enjoy. What is this you playing in the background. What are you hearing hearing anything. I'll must be on my machine gene. I'm not playing any oh no. Do we need to stop tape or you. Okay i'm good. I thought it was just playing a little bad for some reason again buddy. It's the morning zoo here. Let me hit a little little drama. Bid their proposed principles levels and goals pros community agreement direction our community needs multiple housing types and services for individuals experiencing homelessness next bullet point. We know what works yeah. I call bullshit that had no clue what works oh here it is new programs expansions and increase housing capacity on the horizon isan possible places from among which to increase restrictions on camping sitting and lying ordinance standards interpretations and applications rules regarding running camping where it occurs as we build up more housing and services non policing tools to encourage people to go to better and safer places this whole six page document has nothing about mental health nothing about <hes> substance abuse or addiction until the very very very very bottom under those non policing twos help people get assistance for to the bullet point one so so bring centre no mental health assistance shelter slash bridge home navigation center and community court and everything else is about about appropriating apartment buildings or old hotels to turn into affordable housing this is this is not going to to work. Oh you're still your solution here. Well there is one. We talked about this that there's one solution that seems to be working with the community. I village september ninth. I'm going to go over there going to see what they're doing and i shall report back and maybe i'll do an an interview with the <hes> with the c._e._o. Who's running. This was recently featured in people magazine's gotten a lot of attention as something something that seems to be working but tease dave nothing here just nothing. We've got a new idea here in san francisco yeah no no no not shipping them to austin besides that standing standing offer g things no. We're just redefine everybody oh yet. I read something about this. Yeah what's he got money. Read the reason but i don't have any clothes but according to the san francisco chronicle from now on a convicted felon or or other offender or religion custody will be known as the former mur- incarcerated person. This is fantastic justice involved person or adjust and they prefer this a a returning resident. No they're really going to use that returning returning resident of justice that would be even better just a returning resident my goodness oh my goodness. You've now delinquent. We know now called a young person with the justice system involvement or a young person impacted by the justice juvenile system a young person's a young person impacted by the juvenile justice system who who is experiencing homelessness and just happens to be gay and drug addicts are now are substance abusers which for a while wow will become become the oh actually they're changing that step that whole thing to a person with a history of substance abuse and somebody was quoted. One of the supervisors was a. We don't want people to be forever labeled for the worst things i've ever done so we just giving labels. Give give a new label a new yellow star good work everybody. Thanks nuts yeah nice. It's hard to be nice. I i went to dinner with my jamaican friend <hes> and and then he spoke the gun jaw. He smokes the ganji but he don't eat the meat so he's a pesca -tarian. I'd ah is selected this cool restaurant on the east side. That's a butcher shop. He's like don't you remember allow crap yeah all right so he selected the corner the corner bar the j w marriott which is actually kinda nice location but you gotta go into town. I'm in town. I walked three blocks up three blocks over three blocks down near congress. It's gotten worse so yes in shaw since we've left i see congregations now. It used to be you know one or two homeless people. I'm sorry people experiencing homelessness <hes> in a doorway or on a park bench but now there's four or five live in them sitting together with lawn chairs no tense out yet and then you know just like in chicago or san francisco congress like the corner of second congress third congresses people just sleeping on the corner. I saying how people don't can just step over it. Bothers the crap out of me as you can tell to step over him. Yeah i find that very very challenging. I mean it's better than jumping on on him but you know you understand my dilemma. It's not cool cool anyway. Keep everybody updated. We were we are right in a lot out of things or you're ahead of the curve on a lot of things that have been taking place over the past couple of days sure well. It's always astonishing to me. How sometimes how far ahead of the curve we are but this one too far ahead of the curve is become problematic story of my life is this is absolutely absolutely true. I should be a billionaire but i'm always ten years too early with everything now which <hes> so i had the interview with talked to pathetic and who did he say would be on deck to be exposed in the epstein scandal do you recall recall bill gates baffling history of jeffrey epstein is how he was somehow able to surround himself with some of the world's most powerful people even after he pled guilty to soliciting an underage prostitutes and became a registered sex offender for example prince andrew was photograph coming out of epstein hat mansion in two thousand ten two two years after epstein served jail time and now we're learning microsoft founder bill gates not only spoke with epstein on more than one occasion about philanthropic spending but also also flew on epstein private plane from new york to palm beach though gates reportedly refuses to say why and we should note the plane was not the so-called lolita data express which allegedly was used to fly underage girls to epstein's private island but still critics wonder why one of the world's richest men would need to take philanthropic tropic advice from a convicted sex offender especially considering what melinda gates and the couple's foundation for young women around the world separately a former science science adviser for bill gates was named as one of three executors of jeffrey epstein five hundred seventy seven million dollar will forty nine year old boris the kollek says he was shocked to learn that epstein named him and says he has no intention of fulfilling the duties meantime attorney general bill bar gave an impromptu news conference prince today where he maintains that there were numerous irregularities in the death of jeffrey epstein barr says so far he has been given no reason to question the findings of the medical examiner who ruled epstein's death a suicide though barr says the investigation is moving forward there you go oh billy boy and this guilt by association again yes but if he went to the island i'd be more suspicious. All i'm saying is this is is what puts predicted. He said bill gates has a problem. He says he took known a known sex offender of girls with him to the girls charity he and belinda melinda <hes> maintain so yeah yeah after he was convicted of a sex crime yes two thousand thirteen. This happened all in two thousand thirteen twenty fourteen twenty fifteen. That's the part that's problem. Okay well that is a problem yes now how how should be untouchable after that you shouldn't be dealing with him no of course not and it wasn't an wasn't on the lowly to express to the island <hes> but it was the palm a <hes> palm beach were gates also has a house and it was it was on <hes> it was under the gulfstream not the seven twenty-seven anyway. It's just found that interesting now more interesting to me perhaps to you because this is a guy. I've met a couple times. I'm sure you have joey votto. Do you know have gear met him. I know joey yeah quite well. Well joey okay we'll. He posted a public apology. He's now the director of the m._i._t. He media lab is always yeah. Yeah i mean i met him with <hes>. Who is the the french guy who ran august say the french guy ran apple john louis yeah yeah i. I was raising money for pod. Show i remember we had a meeting with him and ito sat in on it. I had a meeting with john lee guests during the same era for friend of mine <hes> and some somebody else who does very well so. Why did you have a meeting with him for why gave this bunch of tips and stuff. He says you know he has zero money in that yesterday. I said no. I didn't know what i saw like when i saw ito. I'm like i'm in the wrong room. This is this is not we're going to get money so he had posted a public apology all g for taking money from epstein for research projects at m._i._t. And for his personal funds to scientists have now how resigned or are publicly announced. They are leaving the media lab. They may not leave m._i._t. But want to leave the media lab because they find untenable so i. I think that they probably don't forget one of the one of the guys in the papers. The two thousand two dozen two thousand page age document two thousand plus pages is marvin mincy big shot at the media lab major major guy. I remember running into may not personally. The <hes> threw me out of a meeting. Do tell this we need to hear this t. Tell us first who marvin ski is and then marvin out of the meeting eating one of the famous <hes> <hes> artificial intelligence from the eighties. I go round and maybe even to wanted before a every thirty years or so this artificial a didn't he didn't he kind of write the book on artificial intelligence wrote a book at least he published it well you got me on that so i got invited as a lark mark <hes> by will hearst to go into the media lab with the executives of the hearst corporation who are getting a a tour that you didn't have to sign a nondisclosure and i was like i and i were just wondering we're in the kind of just wondering we're just in the group does about one zero maybes eight nine people and clothing the c._e._o. And randy hearst and all these other people we're going through this thing and we get into take the dog and pony show that they put on which were i found out a number of interesting things. I used later in certain columns because i could. I didn't have to worry about nondisclosure being non-disclosed non-disclosed on any of it so we're going from meeting to meeting where these guys are just full of crap other showing us everything in the place got a great tour and <hes> the few ribald comments to make and so we go into this file meeting and there's pinski in there with <hes> the gaza head the time whose name is looting me volvo wired magazine and minsk he sees me. He knows who i am and he says what's this guy doing here. What's divorce act doing in here pretty much at this guy and everybody's looking left and right and i'm sitting there with the stupidest milem face and they asked me to leave yeah s. O. will actually will left women. The two of us left. Oh that's cool at least it. It was shown that far from what i could tell and so he's left wing. It was at the end anyway so who cares and we went on did something boston somewhere and seles like that's the mouse guy. Well screw those guys guilty by association. I say there's a lot of that going around apparently with m._i._t. Media lab oh stop. What do you mean. There's a lot of that going around the m._i._t. Media lab guilty by association just your report you got joey. Okay quizzes the media lab. Kaminski's the media lab pay off a lot of media lab. Guy seems to me yeah well one of the theories. This may be an amazing polly theory. One of the one of the theories theories is that <hes> epstein dots people have man well epstein was in a trance humanism and all this weird stuff and implanting things things in hybrid. I heard he was really big into implanting. We've got it the first time heo wpro and that he you know because he also said he collected humans that he might have been supplying supplying humanoids for testing thing too many of these <hes> more esoteric research projects at m._i._t. And harvard that he was apparently funding. There's now also another interesting interesting connection. You probably read about or saw the video of prince andrew at epstein's house in manhattan with a young woman leaving. Did you know i didn't know who was the picture. Describe it again. So it's the epstein house in manhattan. It's the mansion mansion and the door opens up. A young woman walks out and then in the door opening waving her off is prince andrew of of the germans is over there in england and so that turns out to be the daughter of former australian prime minister paul keating just to make it a little worse. I can't remember wasn't paul keating problematic prime minister for australia. No i can't this is not even in the memory banks. It's possible well. She is now a sustainability campaigner who works for a show business talent agency see that represents among others sir paul mccartney and you too and she also previously partied with jews elaine maxwell and presented a fawning interview with the alleged procure calling her a philanthropist so that just makes it that much more juicy juicy when we can add those tidbits yeah. I'm not saying anyone's guilty however dutch former model taseer house mom who was discovered by john luke brunell. This is one of the you know. This was the big fashion the moderate really he's. He's throwing the drawn darts at him the s so she says that she was drugged and end abused sexually sexually abused when she was in. She doesn't know where the apartment was but she does say she thinks she also remembers epstein being there so you know people just come out and a lot of this is just people coming out and just saying whatever they remember my favorite though is kerry kennedy kennedy and she is the <hes> robert kennedy daughter coup. Do you remember she. You do remember the story story. She was arrested for driving under the influence and her defense successful defence. I might add was that she had accidentally bentley. Take an ambien instead of her progesterone or something like that and so she was all whacked out and she you know she crashed into a trailer tractor so she's always been good friends with his lane as she offered her lawyer left court when the trouble started between epstein and the law and left court of course was is someone who <hes> who worked sometimes defense but it's even more juicy to know that kerry kennedy at the time was married to andrew cuomo house which which puts the coamo quid created back in infocus which is really always fun if we can just accuse him of anything so do you have any clips from the wendy williams show gee. I forgot to watch and i forgot to record. Why did you have any now. I'm just thinking where you're going here. That's all i got. I will say something else when it comes to things that we've that we've been out ahead of love and this comes back to two pipelines. I don't remember exactly which episode was when we discovered how important pipelines are to the to the geopolitical goal state of the world and of course this was when a lot of pipelines were being built who discovering the old ones things were changing. Ukraine was changing russia. It was changing the stance towards russia. It quieted down a little bit then we had the big leviathan field which we've known about for at least eight years and that started started pumping so we've tracked that we've been tracking the nord stream two which is a secondary route from russia <hes> that is intended to pump just a whole lot of natural gas into europe which once again will go through ukraine but it goes along the coast of several countries and it kind of came into view what has been going on the past week when i read read this report from reuters that the nord stream two russian lead gas pipeline project across the baltic succeed to europe could be delayed by up to eight months and cost an extra six hundred and sixty million euros due to hurdles in securing the necessary permits from one particular country and this is the last country that has to sign off on these permits and they've been wishy washy about it for a while while and that may make sense that we had someone come out of the woodwork to perhaps delay their decision a little bit longer because has this is denmark so now you can understand why trump was going to denmark now. You can kind of understand understand why he wanted to make a big deal about greenland owned by denmark too because they are in direct competition to the the natural gas. We are now exporting. This pipeline in particular is in competition to the gambit we have running which is more expensive of course for europe europe but we are going to be the net exporter of natural gas and maybe you wanna cause a ruckus around denmark and then if they decide that they are going to approve the nord stream two across in their <hes> territorial waters. Maybe then call them out as russian stooges or something something or you know enemy of nato. I think that may have been the play all along. It's a good theory. I think he actually actually once greenland it is that we did get a boots on the ground report from one of our producers which i don't mind sharing from voter. He says <hes> for the danish government oh this he feels it is indeed absurd and he agrees with the new prime minister's assertion of trump's offer and he has the following points. One for the danish government cannot sell any part of greenland without the approval of the greenlanders. I think we knew that this is determined by rules passed after world war two so why ask denmark you should have made an offer to greenland directly and let them negotiate with the danish government well i again. I think my theory works here because it's not about greenland per se and maybe about stopping the russians with the final lincoln the chaim that to do the danes have very sensitive about every square meter of what is left of the realm of denmark this history here denmark losses southern part to sweden in sixteen sixty st a piece to norway in eighteen fourteen and the northern part of germany which also used to be there's they lost that in eighteen sixty four which they didn't even get back after world were one on top of that they sold of course saint john saint john and saint croix in the caribbean in one thousand nine hundred seventy two us for twenty five million and thirdly denmark and mark may be small and relatively insignificant in the greater scheme of things but they're not stupid. There's a great potential in greenland and they will never just sell because of short-term perspective. The politically greenland eamon kim nielsen probably had the best response saying he could be interested in buying the u._s._a. Because it was the vikings leaf the happy who discovered covered america and his father eric the red who discovered greenland and stayed there therefore it is only logical that we get the usa back again. He has not yet decided on the price but but expects it to be quite low taking the deficit of the u._s._a. Into account and if trump will be part of the deal if he is then the offer will be lower all right well. I love having producers everywhere in the world. I'm sure that's exactly everybody feels. The point is that they have already sold the oldest something in the past yes saint core kwan croix and john and say jan and so they you know so it's not with outside the realm of possibility and it's been done i mean truman ask the by greenland after world war two and was rebuffed and somebody in the eighteen eighteen hundreds. I believe made the offer yeah so it's not completely nuts. It's not absurd which but here's what bothered me so she said this is is absurd now. It's not absurd but his response is. She's a nasty woman which i can only i've been looking at that. He never for says. She's a nasty woman. Or what did he say. He says. It's nasty used the word nasty referring to her comment but he never said she's. I don't leave unless somebody gets thrown me a quote that may well that explains it because i thought he said nasty woman and i went looking for some connection between this new prime minister and hillary. Maybe he was making that connection. Maybe i misheard it but his response was well. You know if you're just going to respond like that. Then screw oh you you're not nice. I mean what is that about. It's only i i'm telling you i think the russian pipeline thing is is what is is number one or that's. That's what he's gonna a us now. That's why i didn't go to greenland's. Why didn't ask them is all about denmark well. Let's listen to let's play greenland clips. We want one from democracy now. Greenland on sunday trump confirmed to reporters is interested in purchasing the autonomous danish territory and did not rule out trading a u. S. territory territory for the island trump said essentially it's a large real estate deal danish politicians across the political spectrum expressed disbelief over trump's sudden cancellation of the state visit the danish prime minister met the frederickson cold his idea to purchase greenland absurd heard she also told reporters thankfully the time where you buy and sell other countries and populations is over. Actually i had an idea. Why don't we sell california to greenland the commutes too far. No then you can put all your homeless on a bus. Oh well no old austin there will open arms greeley realty freeze as listen to number two. There's a bit of new information clip two on monday. Trump tweeted a photo of shiny gold trump's skyscraper ice scraper photoshopped onto an image of greenland town and wrote. I promise not to do this to greenland. Trump is said to be interested in greenland's abundant it natural resources and geopolitical importance but the island is also at the center of the climate crisis earlier this month greenland's ice sheet experienced its largest single-day melton history in july the hottest month ever recorded greenland's ice sheet lost one hundred ninety seven billion tons of ice is the equivalent of around eighty million olympic swimming pools experts say in addition to rising sea levels around the world. The receding ice could expose toxic nuclear waste left at u._s. Military sites during the cold war john john john john look out your window quick the mudflats. There's still there nothing. The thing is changed <hes>. She's so there's a little bit at the end. We're dumping new nuclear way yes well. That's not exactly we true but in one thousand nine hundred she said yeah that's well. I i actually got this on no agenda social dot com them guys like <hes> ooh. That's exactly what he sounded like like. We had a a secondary base there and we did have some so-called recalled secret nuclear testing so i don't know anything about the secret nuclear testing but apparently there was the is waste and other toxic shit from just having a base there and then that alameda and they just let it all snow under because it was hard to keep it clear anyway and him then they abandoned it so it's just hidden under this layer of i dunno ice melting. It's going to expose that and the woolly mammoth dan and end and bacteria the smallpox black death that we haven't seen since nineteen eighteen all of that is going to come when the when the ice melts surely you know oh 'bout this science math science not to mention the amount of methane that has been accumulated by the ice somehow yeah that's from the woolly mammoth farts yeah yeah sticks in that ice for some reason when you on the topic of this <hes> of the of the nuclear waste so there was a explosion of nuke went off in russia yeah it hasn't been reported to as as much as it could be a little bit. I mean it was all kind of the same like from what i remember. The russian said oh don't worry then they said maybe we should leave and then come on back aci- okay was very unclear. Well i have the clip from n._b._c. That kind of explains it not completely but it's not really a nuke dare testing and i thought it was interesting because we've done this in the past i think in the fifties or sixties there was some anti gravity weapon will maybe but that that wasn't what happened. <hes> <hes> nuclear engines oh new nuclear jet engines asians nice and they dared they'd work 'cause we've tested them but their problem is a very dangerous. You have to have a really long garden hose for the water turbine. I hear <hes> but they have <hes> they go like cbs's. Get one go and you can fly around the globe two or three times just keep going and going and flying and flying so you can have these things is flying all constantly cause fear of course as you shoot one down it becomes a dime keep flying on the grounds boom blows up so <hes> this kind of what happened this thing blew up and i don't know what's going to happen to uh-huh this program but they kind of explained here and on another global front tonight russia's facing new questions over the recent explosion at a missile testing site after telling the nuclear monitoring group to stay out of it we get more from n._b._c.'s bill neely mystery tonight about exactly what happened days. He's after a nuclear explosion that killed five russian nuclear scientists at least four radiation monitoring stations nearby went silent and stopped transmitting committing data russia told an international nuclear watchdog today mind your own business russia admitted radiation levels did spike briefly after the accident which was tied to the testing of a nuclear missile engine putin said yesterday there is no threat no risk increased radiation but the kremlin is he's also furious. An international nuclear watchdog tweeted this map of a potential radiation plume spreading across russia. The kremlin calls calls that absurd warning the watchdog to back off claiming it can withhold any data nuclear experts say russia's real aim is to hide secrets crit supply this a nuclear powered cruise missile the president putin boasts could evade american defenses russia concealing from the u._s. Exact data on its nuclear fuel to the russian radiation monitoring stations aren't working again but russia has proved once again that when it comes there's two it's national security. It will hide what the world might want to know man. We got russia with a nuclear engines. We got france with hover board. We don't have any cool shit anymore. Now dropped the ball yeah. He's tesla which they got troops on hover boards. They got nuclear engines. We got tesla into thanks obama. I don't know i think i remember spending seven hundred sixty billion dollars last year. What are we doing with it. <unk> boondoggles ignoring meetings. The president finally caught up on his no agenda episodes. It's about time you know. It's a lot of people always talking to them so you can always get some time to himself and this was <hes> three days ago. A tweet wow report just out google goal manipulated from two point six million to sixteen million votes for hillary clinton in two thousand sixteen election. This was put out by clinton supporter. Not a trump supporter. Google should sued my victory was even bigger than thought so thanks we <hes> we did quite a detailed dive on his on in this research and the guy got into a beef after this the elliott gould wherever his last name is epstein robert robert epstein stein robert epstein he with hillary because hillary says is part of a debunked. Let me read it. The debunk study you're referring to was based on twenty one undecided voters for context. That's about half the number of people associated with your campaign. Who've been indicted yeah. I knew that this was the messaging that went out immediately and <hes> this. I just flip to c. n. n. Actually it was on m._s._n._b._c. s. n._b._c. They didn't have the story at flipped to c._n._n. And yes sir and there's another conspiracy theory jeffrey that he's onto he took to twitter today to accuse google google of manipulating votes. He said google manipulated from two point six million to sixteen million votes for hillary clinton in two thousand sixteen election. This was put out by clinton supporter or not a trump supporter. Bugles should be sued. My victory was even bigger than thought. In a day of whack a doodle claims this is the most wackadoo divall and and john we went through this research and this twenty-one undecideds undecided voters yes and we'll talk about that in a second but there was thousands of pages and people underneath all that research which float up until this final test so and i thought the research was pretty solid <hes> and has been published and the guy's been put into as a. It's a it's a it's a definitive work because because there's not even any claim that google manipulated votes. There's no that they didn't go in there and change votes. No one claims that except donald trump the idea to see what the what is doing their tells he talking about. He's trying to make its first of all trump was wrong. He says has google manipulated from two point six to sixteen million votes for hillary. That is a well. It's very poor way of stating aiding what happened. What happens is their bias in their system or biased within the people we don't know put more hillary favourite links at the top top two positions so and that swayed the two point six to sixteen million according to <hes> robert epsteins research into voting waiting for hillary they were indeed undecided but it was very important and the research is very conclusive and has been replicated but this jim oak to i the the first woman says odds is baffled at debunk that then toobin comes in saying well. They didn't go in and manipulate votes what he's implying. Here's they didn't go into the voting machines and manipulate them. That's that's literally what he's implying which is such a douche move those there's no that they didn't go in there and change votes. No one claims that except donald trump the idea is that searches were ranked in certain ways that helped democrats democrats rather than rather than republicans. This too has been long discredited but it's all part of this incredible nervousness about his political standing no-one just just saying long discredited by who know by slate magazine who discredited. That's what i if i i was sitting there at asked tuban. Who's just a stooge. I'd say toobin discredited sources man report. You can show me studies and sources okay. Ah shut up. I was wrong about two thousand sixteen. I don't know if he's going to win or lose in two thousand twenty but what today's you know spate of craziness tells us is that he's really worried about losing. That's the real message not any of the stops now. Listen to the the final woman on the panels. You're nodding here sabrina. Well look yeah. I think it's no coincidence that he picked out this two point six million number from the rain that was provided in this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory theory because unsubstantiated conspiracy theory unsubstantiated this is this is not news news. This is election. Tv is very variable episode dead disservice to the public unsubscribe <music> leading the public six million number from the rain that was provided in this unsubstantiated conspiracy theory because that's also very close at the margin by which hillary clinton won the national popular vote and we've seen the president on multiple occasions throw out again conspiracy theories that votes were nearly nearly three million votes were stolen from him in the twentieth sixteen election because then that helps him push back against the notion that hillary clinton in fact won the popular vote which is a big a sore <hes> thinking point for the president robert epstein actually posted a very long thread regarding this in his battle either even included a picture picture of him and hillary because <hes> and he's very disappointed with with hillary clinton and he even show even pulls out to wikileaks emails to show how google's eric schmidt offered to run hillary's tech campaign and if yeah of course he funded the groundwork which is this little tech company whose only purpose was to put clinton in the white house and after all that last night i saw late he posted a picture of a beach and written in the sand was i love life and he posted. I'm not going into kill myself. I don't wanna die. I'm very happy with everything. I guess he. The clinton body count got to look at. He has a thread and response to it. Ninety percent of the responses related to be careful. You're gonna get killed in that. Meam is great that means the clinton clinton miss as the nation's. What is fantastic. It's so entrenched mentioned in the public consciousness is it's i. I'm actually stunned by that is always something that ten years ago. It was just some sort of a running gag a ah a few people. We've heard we talked about it. We talked about earlier but now it's like jeeze and i forgot to mention on the other epstein. I'm pretty sure that looking at bill bars connections through his dad to epstein which is very clear. I think bar is is cleaning up. He's not going to unseal the thousands of seized indictments but he's gotta have a couple of people who go down and i just feel like all eyes on bill because you know the clintons winton go down. All you have to do a step back and watch everyone else who who matters tumble. You don't think it's going to happen now. He's he's <hes>. <hes> immune is our immune ore. He's got <hes> he's protected. He's not going to happen. They're not gonna do that any president well. Let's check in with lou and joe show. Let's see doj joe. Genoa says if we've got any closer any information about the sealed indictments thousands of them after after three years of investigation we still know so little and and guess what if it hadn't been for the corruption at the top of the f._b._i. The department of justice to swing the election toward short hillary clinton we would have all of these answers but when you have the world's premier law enforcement agency the f._b._i. Become so politically bankrupt and corrupt that that it cannot run an investigation the way it should have. That's why it's important that they clean house and that's why it's so sad that christopher ray has has never addressed any of these problems as bill bar said when he was attorney general for a couple of months he says i have more questions now than before i it became attorney general boy that tells you something. No it tells me nothing. Does you something man. No it's so disappointing. Appointing there was three weeks ago. It was going to be any day now wednesday. No it wasn't no three weeks. Ago is gonna be wednesday. I can't even i can't even get tea non board anymore. I'm like that go. She's like. I don't believe it for a second. I've heard this all my married life with you which was three months a few days ago <hes> she's finally wised up. I'm i'm sure this is. I'm sure everybody heard it but since we've had this exact same issue back in the day all say we haven't had this happen in many years <hes> the bill de blasio skype. Fail was pretty fun. I don't know this oh my goodness yeah it was it was the iowa uh think the union workers and blasios missed his plane or whatever blow crap excuse there was <hes> and so he came in on on skype and we knew it was skype because you remember what used to happen. Sometimes only on your end i might i might add with skype what was happening on my and you'd get the helium voice. Oh yeah that would happen. Here's bill de blasio calling in a thank everybody. I'm so happy with you and i i i apologize. I couldn't be there in person had cancelled flight and could not get you by my time slot but i want to just say anything about why i'm running for president yeah well. We have to do in this country. I wanna thank you and the audience was laughing and he does. He has no clue and his whole statement. It's just hilarious and last tonight said it who does he sound like fighting your way every day organized labor in iowa. What does he sound like. We sell one of the female candidates fighting a really really battle no but you've been doing it in a way of someone who sounds like ben shapiro. They know you're racist. Sexist homophobic hates the right. That's what they know about. You and it's not they think they know that about you. Ben shapiro fancied pick that up. It's a bit like ben shapiro yeah more than a bit. Maybe ben shapiro's on helium that would make sense that would explain something <hes> let's see i have a couple of other twenty twenty th oh yes well. Elizabeth warren <hes> finally a apologize to american indians kind of insincere ear quasi heartfelt. I know that i have made mistakes. I am sorry for harm. I have caused. I have listen and i have learned a lot and i am grateful for the many conversations we've had together. It is a great great honor to be able to partner with indian country and that's what i've tried to do. As a senator and that's what i honest i will do as president of the united states of america was pretty good. People thought it was me do it again. I wanna i wanna hear it without elizabeth. What you're crying. That was pretty good didn't do anything okay but here. Here's a here's a groovy one. From from another guy i got my eye on andrea sang because he's he's alspi on that stage man but he's a little pompa silicon valley ass in the background however ever he went on a podcast. It's always very dangerous when you go into podcast. I'm not talkin joe rogan. I'm talking on a podcast. We are chilled and you relaxed and this is the podcast and you feel like you can kind of say whatever you want. No surprise surprise the debates are rigged and even so so filtered and removed debates like you pointed out just feel like you're watching a reality and not actual and not even a good one the base really nightmare. I mean they asked you complex questions and expect you to answer. 'em like thirty seconds and then they cut you off <hes> and they focus so much on the drama. It's like they want it. They want you to get into an argument with joe. Biden and you know one thing. I'll share with you all that that some of the campaigns are in touch with the t._v. Network ahead of time to talk about what sort of attack they wanna law on the stage attack on <hes> around asked this question would be would play really well. Yes campaign says hey <hes> we're gonna make this attack against biden and then the network goes okay like like we get it and then they helped create that opportunity. What a nightmare. I mean what a farce it's. It's quite a disaster and i want to share here with you. The perspectives like i think a lay person who happens to find himself on the presidential debates stage being like what the hell on like. What's gone on to this conference call so that's quite the accusation. Wow that's clip. That's i clipped clipped today. Give it to yourself. Thank thank you. I could tell somebody to you know no. I found this myself jim although let me just say as a part of our value for value system. It's not not just the money yes that enables you to do the work but at this i was thinking just again this morning without our producers i you there's no way no way we would get the amount of the quantity and the quality of clips and summation yeah inside did not read then okay one of our guys little long but i wanna read it a hollywood guy in the morning and keep me anonymous i share an event vented happened this spring and it will be an annual event and he's got some lincoln scholar. Impact all this. I saw this organization such as color of change define american and harness which has been offering story consulting script integration services to hollywood for years. We only know of the the one we've talked talked about of course are familiar hollywood health and society u._s._c. They're participating in this event and this event was cold unreasonable conversation. <hes> people can look it up on google. It will be available during interactive sessions for writers who went workshop specific storylines characters. They're working on <hes>. <hes> proper says it's all participants will be all participants would provide you with a resource guide in contact information for these groups. They can develop deep relationships with them on an ongoing basis as an unquote. This is an extravaganza of mind programming insider. Trading trainings are with the top producers directors and actors messaging pitching and coercing the new recruits to learn the new narratives for all genres of entertainment think lear foundation. I don't think this would pop up on on your radar. If nobody sent it to you. You might be able to deconstruct it in a novel way. <hes> hollywood is no fun. Anymore is just virtuous signaling in the the c._n._n. Agenda at every job. I'm struggling hard as a middle aged white guy in the entertainment industry trying to escape this whole mess before they put me out out to pasture <unk>. This gathering makes my skin crawl and it's a clear virtuous signaling attack on everyone but the triple disgruntled status people. I would contribute again today. Bam a bad place financially and says <hes> great show. Keep up the good work so there's a bunch of these things going on yeah. I took a look interster right. I took a took yes well. I took a look at unreasonable conversation. Dot org is yearly five. Oh one c. threes but there's a lot of money pumping and through him as a couple of them another one he <hes> he mentioned i also looked up and that was see who is that was their name name image of darn just fine america and define american sign america anyway did so they in march they had the big meetings meetings is where they get together with show runners with producers and what's great about it is hollywood being virtue signaling community that community that is they do not wanna make any mistakes so for instance. There was an article linked to one of these sites study immigrant tv characters portrayed as criminals and less educated so just like you don't wanna get caught up in some kind of bullcrap controversy as an advertiser. You certainly don't want to make misstep yep. If it comes to daca kids over comes to racial issues whatever it is you want to bring in the experts who look very expert expert and we'll get to that in a moment and they should be a nonprofit and by the way. I don't think it's free and they may be paying them or into the nonprofit offit but it's like hiring i._b._m. You know you can't go wrong. Hey look. I brought in the unreasonable conversation. People i brought in the define american people i brought in the lira hollywood to help decide to people i brought in all these people so you can't blame me and they will be very careful that the advise you properly so on the unreasonable conversation asian program this year speaking or as panelists america america ferrera remember hers ugly betty andrew sullivan eleven who is credited as a contributing editor at new york magazine of course a very famous blogger andy deep putty comb. I don't know let's see barra tune day. Thurston people who <hes> have seen him before on twit twit will know that he is who he is by sam yussef dubbed the jon stewart of the arab world <hes> and go down some more here blood names. I don't know see gena davis no her head the ray ray very famous hollywood producer john legend well when john legend's in anything you know that that has to be a completely he left organization because legend famous for saying. There's no such thing as a creative person of any sort who's is not a democrat yes. I think this was the clip. Is john legend here. I'm hosting a virtual phone bank for swing. Let this weekend to help. Get out the vote ahead of the special special election in my home state of ohio. That's right. I'm from ohio and ohio has a very special election on tuesday working to elect democrat danny o'connor honor to the house of representatives. I think campaigning on expanding healthcare and proudly promotes his rating from the n._r._a. His republican challenger a state senator john. Maybe it was something else. It's okay call boaters from anywhere. All you need is internet access and anyway. We had a clip somewhere we we said creative people can only be democrats so john legend is in it carrie washington very famous <hes> actress <hes> who else do we have here. Marsha marsha gessen the you know her. She's the troublemaker who hates russia and of course therefore also hates trump. He's written ten books. She's on staff at the new yorker megan smith. Hello we know megan. Don't we used to be on my silicon spin. Show all the time. Isn't she. A spook doc it's possible. I don't know that <hes> let's see who else do we have. Mayor of new orleans turns <hes> rushide. Robinson makes sense that he's in there stacey abrams general stanley amy mcchrystal. They've got the military guys in there to you know to advise on the proper way to show anything steve levine the future editor axios axios yet. You know you're so valerie jarrett. Oh hello val she's in there so that is what is polluting your hollywood products. That is what is happening to m. c. You is these people are have their fingerprints all over it. How'd you like that little comic reference and get edit mc you. It's the marvel cinema cinema tonics cinematic universe or some shit like the marvel universe mc you yeah oh. It's all generally influenced by these folk that way. That's why the creativity is kind of leaching out. People aren't watching so much stuff. I mean there's too many shows on netflix have from renault good ed garbage and just when we finished up the roger ailes loudest voice six part miniseries now there's going to be a movie with nicole kidman and what's your name <hes> <hes> delillo blonde from <hes> <hes> suicide squad robbie margot robbie as one of the and then the eddie other one the dior name cherise charleroi theroux showed serang girl. She plays megan megan megan kelly and everyone looks just like. I don't think so. I thought she did you. You really didn't sign. It was like a pretty good job but the thing is in the show. I saw the trailer and it was just a crash in an elevator okay. This is not unexciting bom bom bom bom bom. I mean it was just a chunk trailer. No this movie's gonna. I love how you do. Trailers bom bom bom bom totally yeah. I don't know if there's going to be any good in the roger ailes thing was i did the job it. It was a pretty good series and there was russell. Crowe did a good job. I was fantast. Look just like kind of look like but no now. They're going to try to jazzing it with some leagues. I'm not against that thing again but with more legs think about how meta that really is to do a documentary do a drama rama about roger ailes that has more legs than the other one so they can beat it out that is very meta when you think about it do a little twirls. Movie girls girls that i'd like to thank you for your courage and say in the morning to you. The man who put the c. and crying pocahontas john c. gene and the morning new mr adam korean the morning ships see bush feet in the air subs in the water and all the names of knights. Hello hello hello hello troll room in the morning to you. Everybody at no agenda stream dot com that is where we congregate twice a week both on thursdays at you can listen to the this show live. You can chat along troll as much as you want and not just for no agenda. There's many shows that you can find at no agenda stream dot com. It is well worth your time to go. Check it out and hang with the trolls also a big in the morning to darren o'neill back with a very sophisticated piece of art. We loved it. This was the greenland england chop. Suey is a good piece. We know argument over that one. It was just nice and for added bonus. The fortune cookie had the fortune america bad it was. I think it really had all the elements were were looking for in a great piece of art that will draw attention and get people engaged in it worked. We not only got people engaged. People also showed up to support the show. This is the other important part of what our producers do and we love up to thank our ex associate executive producer and executive producers upfront just like hollywood like hollywood. We do have a lot lot of people think in fact an extraordinary number <hes> because it which makes up for the last show which was terrible. Yes top of the list. This is chris is bach from cheshire connecticut with six six six. Six six connected have to do the numbers with this donation donation <unk>. I make it to the rank of viscount. I've been a listener since the show was in double digits and it's been a great ride. I've noticed that you to you no longer have the dimension a._b. Segments well not as much. We know. We did one a month month ago quite honestly it's sickening. It's it's very sickening to go into b. Get dizzy and nauseous. I never said this before but when i when i snapped into dimension be after that that crazy advice you've got the <hes> this happened. I actually throw up. Oh wow well. You're a trooper. Have you had to grab it. I have this little <hes>. It's stinks to high heaven but it's a large coffee cup. All alright throw up. You're really stretching. The gag is he's had this baby because they become much more than different dimensions but different planets. It's with very little info in comment on how they see the world. This makes things particularly painful for those of us somewhere in the middle at least on some fronts. I knew i needed to to donate when i saw my page a day calendar a description of the founding of podcasting by adam and dave winer. Wow these guys as you get. You get some sort of royalty for that. I'd like to see the show me that page today calendar thrown out how damage and it even mentioned that this was in addition of audio files to the r._s._s. format. Wow your legacy is not completely obscured by the likes of adam corolla corolla in joe rogan well there was there was an article i think it was people magazine or someone put conan o'brien on the front and here's the inventor of podcasting pretty much sco podcasting as viscount i plan to <hes> extend my protectorate to fema region one and pledged to honor my duty to promote good migdal throughout the region also up for big promotion in september asking for some jobs karma to put me over the line jobs jobs jobs and jobs. That's bad karma. Ooh ooh suburban. Mennonite comes in next with six hundred and six dollars in west chester pennsylvania <unk> jingles here <hes> i stumbled across your show several years ago. I'd tempting undefined any something too low myself asleep well battling insomnia podcast destroys. That's interesting. I quickly found your show to be completely useless for this purpose instead of getting bored and quietly falling asleep with my headphones phones on i would laugh or continuously yell out exactly only to annoy wake my wife up as well after a little research on the show. I was surprised to find a new both of you from being an early consumer both m._t._v. and p._c. Magazine in the mid eighties please keep up the good work in grant me a major d- douching by accepting this check deed -duced the initial modest data six zero six which represents the mennonite national anthem i look forward to. I don't know what that means. Ford is someday achieving knighthood. Thank you bourbon mennonites. Ladies and gentlemen i present the grand duke of the pacific northwest says wayne mellon song korea robotics the grand duke the pacific northwest. That's pretty good. You caught it sir dwayne chemo at four hundred forty bucks. I t. m. gents. This donation for forty brings me over the line for my fortieth knighthood. Thank you as always for the value for value in in your analysis and the consideration of so many sources <unk> consideration of so many sources of information. I'd love a lone wolf wolf in karma to all producers past and present okay. You've got karma when you roitman hot tin -have in pie knocker or pin knocker by knocker the netherlands g._m. Gents i'm running a bit behind on listening due to vacation and a spotty internet connection but but on reading one last end one last sad puppy newsletter i felt the need to step up and show some extra extra support. Your hard work analysis and contributions to my mental health is much appreciated. The nation probably pushed me to knighthood but as i haven't thought up a witty name yet sir roy will suffice ingles needed but we'll we'll take it. I said go jingles needed needed but a large dose of cancer karma for several people next to me will be much appreciated. Thanks again roy. Take you've got karma craig kutner atlanta georgia three eighty eight sixty six barron craig here of grading viscount. We're not we got to viscounts to two. That's weird i._t. Not m <hes> to the no agenda nation sure. I'm toughened to m. s. manipulation but a sucker for the puppy. I bravo being hang on the newsletter. The show has consistently outstanding. I look forward to election season twenty twenty for you for you hit it out of the park mark. I'd like to expand my protectorate from north east georgette to include all of georgia if i can't just because jingles please club thirty three raven raven double-speak of the week and obama. You just might die karma here. She is it will be that karma ooh brian martin three hundred to say hi. You can just say slick i never i don't remember the w i mean. The doublespeak damp probably haven't heard over been oh no longer than that. Maybe years i john and adam this backup start over brian martin three fifty dear john and adam all-star all stars my jingle requests for part requires some queuing and he's got a list here you have them. Yes thank you for everything that you do. Thank thank you for everything that you we know now victoria today. We read that sentence for me. Okay thank you for everything everything that you what's the what's the matter you can read. That's what it says. Thank you for everything that you yeah you will you will. I was hitting the mouth a little over a year ago and no agendas become future a fixture in my life. It is apparent that to view our pros his pull together relevant thought-provoking content without massive producer production budgets. Yes is is a testament to your talents into the product producer network. I am happy to vivax. I can annual contribution and request a deed douching. You got when you've been deduce. Truly dismayed at the state of the news outlets in the supposed journalists at work within them is now close to impossible know where the truth exist doctors and first responders treat in an attempt to save the lives of those that have committed such foul acts that one could legitimately he question whether they are worth saving lawyers provide legal services to defend those who have conducted acts that are seemingly indefensible each does so because they are committed to the principles of their practice that all life has value that each person's rights that are to be defended. This is what our media supposed a post to be organization. That's committed to the principles of honesty and truth regardless of the consequences think about what kind of society would become especial social political interest inserted. This money and control to emergency rooms are to public defender offices to define what was acceptable. It's a scary thought the last last episode you made mention of the new york times meeting where the editor in chief as well as the staff were actually discussing how shape the news. I could not help but shake my head in disgust. Here's a group of people who have been unwilling compasses. The one of the greatest news misfires ever the trump russia collusion time and time again they pushed stories had found no support when they evidentiary report finally came out their response was well we were just caught flat-footed and time and time again pushed <unk> arar and they won pulitzer prizes for their flat-footed work recall the movie inception were the characters needed a totem to tell whether oneself self is actually in a reality dream spinning coin or not another person's dream. Journalists have been wrong about so much for so long. I'm convinced that they have have lost themselves several law layers deep in someone else's dream. They need to tote them to bring themselves back to reality your gentle. Sirs are mike totem. Kindness regards surname brian. Martin parked in florida. Thank you very much. That's very kind of you. That's exactly why we don't take corporate money. You can't be any form of truthful just can't self censoring answering and i think it's pretty clear we're not very self. Censoring people are innocent until alleged to be involved in some type of enough. You've got karma. There's a sequence. Thank you very much bryan. Sir joe trench torrential torrential employees blow colorado three three three dot three three but please greg carroll and chase affectionately known as meemaw for this donation show eleven sixty six me ma is celebrating her sixtieth birthday on the twenty third of the month and i would think of no better gift than to support the best podcasts in the universe in her name me mas an awesome mom and grandmom who's raised a equally awesome family that practices kindness and generosity a daily basis. I've been lucky to have been adopted into the family and it's my privilege to make this donation to wish me my happy. Sixtieth all right we send her some respect and karma followed by that's true oh i didn't know celebration of basic correct. She wants to give grandma some respect. We got that e._s._p._n. C._t. You've got karma. Conti comes up next with <hes> three thirty three thirty three again delo john anatomy. You're taking the time to put together. A great show your blend of humor and analysis along bantering gives the show a unique character that is very enjoyable. Listen to nice job. I would also like to shout out to my smoking hot wife happy thirty fifth anniversary anniversary was blessed. The day we met with my best friend and soulmate. I am looking forward to many more years ahead but another thirty five years may be a bit tricky. Okay mic respect. Mike mike now you know this. You really really bought watch this one. You made me play those jingles for the previous donor for meema. I didn't question it because i didn't see it on the spreadsheet but it was actually for mike who wants respect. That's true and go karma you see what happened. No looking at the one i i gave us. Please send her. Some respect spelled differently than this other note. Do you have a noticed. I don't have that on my spreadsheet at the bottom of the yellow doesn't fit in the cell so this is random number theory and it's the exact same request to in a row no goat karma was not in the first request. Okay it's topping of goat but still is pretty amazing. That's random number is switched e._s._p._n. You've got karma no longer in theory. That's an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. Yeah yeah or disproven is proven mike populace as sterling massachusetts. That's three hundred thirty three dollars and thirty cents. Please deduce me new gutters when you've been keeping us all saying we much must all pitch in and donate for the children. I would like to call out jeff jeff h and will s as douchebag double up. I would like to an obama no no no <hes> addams family edition and little girl year with some goat karma flatly call for goat karma a see. I don't think i can find that anymore. Obama no no no ch and i know which one it is but <music> feel really bad because i don't know which one it is. I'll just play one different stories on it off and on and on it wasn't a want he wanted abby probably forgot that one design ideas good one right that was excellent excellent robert sharp in holly springs north carolina three nineteen ninety-two. This donation brings me halfway tonight. -hood thanks for your efforts thank you holly carl. Holly street don't jingles not parma baroness whack a mole and hillsborough oregon two hundred and fifty dollars and she becomes our first associate executive producer for this long list <hes> dear john and adam in the morning <hes> the last you heard from it. She writes in longhand. That is extremely readable. <hes> ooh nice diluted. She took <hes> penmanship in when she was in school. I had just adopted the name. Whack a mole for all the troubles. I had been experiencing with my recent home purchase. John seemed disappointed. I had not given specifics as to my trials and adam was moving at that had time to here's my story i purchased and moved into my new house last august unpacked purchased furniture hung pictures and made it a home then in february i found out through postcard in the mail and as subsequent city open house that road construction was planned for the road directly directly in front of my home no this this will include adding a turn lane bike lanes made made possible by taking home owners land and increasing the speed of thirty five miles an hour creating a direct thoroughfare between two major roads during a bit ever doing a bit of research. I discovered that the homeowners affected had been received a letter of explanation in the spring of two thousand seventeen so the seller sold the house to me not disclosing and by the way it's still legal in california new that disinformation and you consume am i really did not do due to diligent do the due diligence to discover this project. Go i had clearly stated. I desired a quiet rose air by greenspace. No i found out april eighteenth and another city meeting eating that the nearby greenspace will be the future site of a one thousand nine hundred home development uh-huh so here. We are exactly a year later in last friday. I closed. I on the sale well this house row and have a pending offer on a new one on a done a dead end streets at this. The whole process has been one challenge in the afternoon. I hope you didn't go through the same real estate person. Thank you for keeping me sane through it. All all these include a sir american carnegie on the birthday list. I think i didn't i didn't i didn't send hysteric. I don't think maybe i did sir. American carnage on the birthday list turns twenty nine eighteen checking no so this is from dame new baronet whack a mole okay sherman harness black mole sir american-carnage win twenty twenty nine on the eighteenth. Okay got it. We are good to go and she says reclosed find an amount close to one percent of the realtor entitled fees. I paid aide while thank you. Is it deductible now her she deduct the donation as just one percent of the i guess not the probably not but that's not the idea is to help support the show. I know i know but thank you. Thank you very much. Congratulations gets the story out of her. That was nice. Congratulated congratulated six of us ca- vetting boom story good story to david vu gonzo yeah two hundred thirty for sir david david two three four five six jingles narcan karma. Thank you sir brian ferguson. The baron of customer <unk> mae sot two thirty three thirty theory. The sad puppy got to me said puppy said puppy score one for the pup pup does its job. The broke broke in the morning. Baron of custom make job karma and residents karma looking for a new place. Oh and my favorite reverend sharpton to cracks me up. There's no real conflict jobs jobs and jobs. That's their job <music> paul dorton at san antonio texas to twenty two twenty two the san antonio n a meet up was my first and <hes> brimming thing with interesting people. My wife who is expecting <hes> human resource number four didn't attend because she thought it'd be a sausage fast. What what is this the show. We'll hold on hold on <hes>. She's pregnant or maybe she just not as she needs pickles sir john divorce back dot org. Hey pickles biggles in ice cream. Anyway sad learned about mastodon <unk> hams guns but wait a minute. That's massa ham radio and guns okay. She's right. It's a sausage fest. Wait for the next. At least they didn't tell you about a hot rod remand. Please and thank you very much for recinding that one in that's funny. I like that caesar baptista. In what do you think socrates saw saugerties new york saugerties must be judged somewhere to oh to mellow giannetta. My swollen and migdal of feels less inflamed with every installment of no agenda. Thanks thanks to your hard work. Please <unk> installment towards my knighthood in exchange for some jobs carmont and that clip montage of sharpton tongue twisters twisters east the measure of the country begins in the state of of wisconsin a national drive to push back a weather. We have more to go to build a movement of resistance but resist the montage. I'm sorry you want. I want to do the montage here. We go to resist we much we must they're all all jedi about a shutdown the tortilla chips in the race then call the of kubrick's lead singer bono franchisers sugar noy we've <hes> suspect josu naive rush limbaugh rush limbaugh rush limbaugh the show rush lombard hosts frame good justice sonia sought to mile is mike is mike mockery yesterday antoni antonia nin gene scalia could and and the republican candidates for k. role at benghazi we ranked behind locked viva la vida i stopped khuzistan kazakhstan to college. Students in beijing is getting lunch at ship for lane steno in iowa. Iowa bane is appropriate. G._o._p.'s tax day giveaway to millionaires why was traffic problems. Emails mail sent environmental projection agency and what certain station has done. I could not that stuff is just so beautiful once in a while you gotta roll out the full reverend al jobs and job that's for add harm or rather healthy list of executive and associate executive producers for eleven eleven sixty six wanna. Thank each and everyone of helping produce. This particular show yeah healthy is right man. That's fantastic and since we're here anyway <hes> <hes> the me welcome a new human resource to the no agenda nation <hes> this is from <hes> <hes> richard eurod slave just thought i'd let the family know we have new human human resources name is artemis candan johnson born eight nineteen nineteen four fifty seven p._m. And coming in at six pounds ten ounces he he was born after a sudden c-section temple and is currently in the nick you for a stay as he is four weeks early. Oxygen and feeding tubes are in. We are struggling but they're for him every every day. If you get a chance we could use some karma for the little one in the hopes that he gets healthy and out soon picks below yes rich. I think he actually tweeted me. This morning morning says we're about to go into the ronald mcdonald house. What should i know well. I can tell you what you need to know. You're going to be close to your child. You can be well taken care of because the motto is ah keep families together so you'll be just fine and let us know when you guys get out congratulations and thank you to our executive producers and associate executive producers. I mean like really thank you. This even doubt the see-saw. It's always sickening when we go through these. These roller coaster moves <hes> but i always have faith and it paid off once again. Thank you for supporting the show and we have more people to think fifty thousand above in our second segment after more deconstruction and of course you can support us by going to this website the laura dot org slash and a running particularly. How much decries propagate formula is this people in the mouth boy aw probably should play this. We got a deep fake deep fake deep deep deep fake which and there was a deep fake machine out. There and people like to do stuff and i i hear it. I i mean if if you tell me fine listen. Is this the person that's the real person i can hear no because it's still sounds a bit choppy and not completely natural but back when it comes to this particular guy and his <hes> already interesting cadence you get this hello hello. I'm jordan like the news you get from them. I'm a deep although made up of skip logic and the odd glitch that requires to jiggle the handle manipulated by name use fag bucer seeking cheap it is more important than ever when you donate to know agenda unlike me for man made climate change causing mudslides to disappear goes to separate the no agenda show is real needs your support especially jeremy in bond. I do so bad. Please go the divorce dot org slash in donate. Now i may be fake. Proficient is real. It's pretty good. Isn't it yeah couple of glitches in there air but i liked it sounded exactly like him for except for the dog glitches don't say glitches the those issues where some goes like makes a google share. You're right. It was real good. She's my favorite part. Was this differ except that it was just thrown in there for no reason there goes to this effort that made it really feel real to me. That was beautiful thing. Oh my goodness so who is who is our producer they did that. Oh <hes> well. It's chris wilson. Put it together but there's the not the uh not peterson not jordan peterson dot com deep fake people selling deep fake algorithms it yeah you know that was a veiled yeah. You can just enter any anything you want and it sounds like you're it sounds well. Yes i would say it sounds pretty good pretty. Good yeah so you get a kick out of that. Oh this i i thought i dreamt this <hes> and then i went looking for it and indeed i had seen it and it did happen but it kind of passed over with with the shootings and god knows what else it's just the election news channels. It's so hard to get news like actual news even news from the president who by the way i think and trump has done something very smart. He noticed he'd never replaced sarah sanders. As far as i know he certainly didn't replace anyone in the briefing briefing room so is new stick is fantastic just whenever he's walking to the helicopter out of the oval across the lawn. He's he's got a news pool camera setup no journalists on camera which is why you never see jim acosta anymore just no journalist on camera only him. I'm answering going back and forth bantering and i think at this point he must have spoken to the press more than any president ever in history. The middle comes wandering sometimes wanders on through the over the grass lot of grass in these shots well. It's it's out is coming for two undergrads coming up chopper and he's going to a choppers always. He's on the move. He's on the move as right. That's good but i liked it. You know he's taken away the whole idea of the briefing. It's just gone now is just him and it's probably the best way to do it. Although holy crap man no no matter what he says it's just another scandal of the day for the election t._v. Channels it's despicable anyway. One of the things that we always talk about when these mass shootings is was there any were there any pharmaceuticals involved. Now we know that the dayton ohio shooter had xanax and cocaine and alcohol not a great combo not an s._r._i. But ned great combo but you never really hear about this and it's never discussed on the news channels because the election channels are sponsored by big pharma in general they spend most of the money silicon valley doing pretty good as well <hes> and as we've talked about several times on the show but going back many years the closing of the mental institutions in in the united states now. Could you like a brief reminder because this was the reagan era. Was it not when we closed what we used to call the nut houses well well. Yes but it's i get the briefing because this was an era that i was this was my era and what has been going on as a democrat during this this year of course does democrat <hes> because you're so so there was a constant constant carping by the democrats mostly the left if you wanna call him that today but the democrats the democrats <hes> and it was in the schools when you're in high school even even grammar school and the always discussed all the horrible thing they do look at these insane. Asylums is not the way you treat people. They don't need to be locked up and they made needed <unk> of the social justice warrior movement i believe maybe it was and they just moan and groan and moan and groan and moan it was never gonna end and what was the what was the main complaint about the these mental institutions were locking people up man. Oh man they don't need to be locked up and so they were lucky these people up and it was bad they should be out in about most of them weren't even nuts anyways for his arrogance diesel lisa counseling so as idea and it kept harping on it and just like this one flew over the cuckoo's nest was largely about written by ken keesey easy and he was a functionary of the of the of the moment and he wrote a book about it and it was just horrible digits lock people i mean they give them electroshock therapy and drug government so there is horrible so reagan comes into office and he says he didn't want to have anything to do with all these people moaning and groaning for his whole six years our longest gonna to stay as as the governor and he just closed all the places he did. He did what they wanted and they are now. Looking magaw blame him. Were these were these federal. Institutions state and reagan had the power to close near elected. They got all all of them got disappeared. We had agnew state hospital down to san jose locked up. We had the the nut house in <hes> referred to it. Ask napa sonoma. Both of them were were pretty much shuttered. I think one was kept. Oh i think the one for the criminally insane whichever one that was i think whisk kept for a while because they need to put these guys somewhere. During their trial it would be worth going back and looking at some articles from that period and see if people are talking talking about you know the equivalent of people experiencing homelessness people experiencing mental issues or some crap like that the homeless this thing is something that has been written about has been studied. A little bit really relates back to jimmy carter when he changed some federal rules about <hes> <hes> subsidizing housing. Let's let's stay with the <hes> with with a nut houses for a second and i remember growing up the they were a <hes> what's wrong with timmy. They took his mom to the nuthouse. Way would be referred to well president trump robert. We're going to be focusing verse strongly mental health because he has a case of mental health part of the problem is we used to have mental institutions and i said this yesterday we had a mental l. institution where you take a sicko like this guy he was a sick guy so many signs and you'd bring him to a mental health institution. Those is institutions are largely closed because communities didn't want him. Communities didn't want to spend the money for them so you don't you have any intermediate ground. You can't put them in jail because he hadn't done anything yet but you know he's going to do something so whether it be talking seriously about opening mental health institutions again in some cases reopening i can tell you new york governors in new york a very very bad thing when they closed or or mental institution so many of these people living on the streets and i can say that in many cases throughout the country. They're very dangerous. They shouldn't be there so we're going to be talking about mental institutions and when you have some person like this you can bring them into a mental institution and they can see what they can do but we gotta get him out of our communities so the problem with <hes> with doing this today in twenty nineteen and if it hasn't already already started it will is mental health and the definitions of that of changed mental health is <hes>. I mean now you at school. You can take a mental health day at work. You can have a mental health day john. You and i don't know this but <hes> this is the fact act is a this is something that is a part of your benefits package you. Can you know you get this many sick days p._t._o. And then here's your mental health days. <hes> mental health is described very differently in and it is much more inclusive than you're right for the funny farm where the nut house and with the s._s. Our eyes and i learned a new one s._s. N._r._i.'s report you'll hear in a moment. These two people who are depressed. Were really seriously depressed. They have been lifesavers verse. So you gotta walk. You've got to tread very carefully in today's media landscape of what you call mental health and mentally insane et cetera cetera and as if on cue n._p._r. Had an hour long special celebrating thirty years of prozac and i put a link to it in the show notes. It's it's worth listening to. Although at the end it comes all the way around to well. They're pretty good we she keep taking him. <hes> the woman who did the piece did this did interviews and host the piece has also been on prozac for most of her adult life and i just wanted to play a clip from this. We've had thirty years of prozac. So why are we still depressed. Which i'd like to have is an eye so candidate for the end of the show. I think think it's a very valuable statement. We've had thirty years of prozac. So why are we still depressed. I have this almost physical memory of the first this time i opened the bottle and shook this tiny green and cream colored capsule out onto. My hand are being scared at the time. I thought it was gonna make me somebody else. And what did you think i vividly remember the first time i took it but i remember better the the third and fourth time i took it because i was stunned. I was absolutely stunned. At first i thought this couldn't be just having a good moment but the moment turned into a day in that day turned into a week in that week turned into a month and i am someone who lived with psychiatric symptoms since i it was ten years old and probably even before all of a sudden i was better and i had to reckon with what it meant that this pill was was making me into a new person came to believe it was called the psychotropic drain. Oh it clear to my mind of all of the gun obsessions obsessions in the gunk of depression and underneath was the person that i was the most miraculous thing that's ever happened to me and i've had had two babies so not supposedly miraculous and it was miraculous but it wasn't as miraculous as being cured in a matter of days days by a pill. What's been the long term effect on you. <hes> prozac stopped working for me. It wasn't like it's kind of dwindled down. Outages stopped so i had to switch to effexor. I'm permanently on an s. n._r._i. Booster i can't get off off. I've tried to get off and it's not possible for me to do. I don't see that i'll ever be able to get off of it. In the meantime. No one knows no one really knows what the long term side effects of the are. I've been taking <hes>. You've been taking them for thirty years. We're walking experiments but the scarier thing than that is that no one's experimenting on us. They should be looking looking towards us. Our bodies carry the signatures of these drugs but no one's asking us are looking at us or looking in us to find out what what might be the long term effects. Why are they so hard to get off of and what happens to the brain if you do get off of them and what happens to the brain if you don't get off of them i mean something is happening to the brain and after thirty years of marinating your brain in a serotonin booster rooster clearly the brain has changed but no one knows how or why and apparently no one gives a crap apparently not that that is outrageous that is outrageous and these women have a point. I think it's well made by that one that one woman yeah what what what gives yeah it's like thirty years bill yeah i mean this is just like <hes> chantik just hey are you smoking now. It works who cares if you tried to kill yourself or your neighbor who cares if you woke up naked rolling around in horsecrap with a gun who cares cares. If you're a celebrity chef and you kill yourself while in france too yeah. That's i find that to be immediate grounds for order halting sales into until we find well that would be fair because people did these people really needed and and it didn't it stopped working working. I mean isn't that reason enough for the makers of prozac to go find out why i don't know if that's a competing manufacturer but she went to a different brand and had to add a booster <hes> yeah it's very distressing thing and i'm sure lots of people will send me emails about their experience and i appreciate that that'd be it'll be interesting to read about eh and of course in this case prozac. Only well okay well. Let's just a little more exciting tons of things that are exciting. I was just this. Sometimes i gotta put something on blast. You know let's see we got <hes>. What is the interesting odd would cuomo and ray. Oh yeah yeah. This is interesting now. This is this is. This was something i record. I knew about this and i thought it was as a topic. It was is woman calls out whitey. You know just some screeching woman. That's that's giving some guy crap for being white <hes> but that's not what i ended up with with with. This clip was not about about that clip turns out to be about something. Completely different has nothing to do with the message of the of the clip has to do with the pitch of the woman's voice all dropped a registered down and talk deep because you know like <hes> you mean like when you're running when you're running a blood company arriving voice on the new steve jared something discs woman who is bitch jews talking over to people two tones and pitches and the frequency response of her voice or the frequency of her voice not the response to frequency of her voice pretty much wipes everything else out and i'm wondering if this is not the most effective person to have as a spokesperson in a broadcast televised argument just because her voice. Let's listen to this clip and i'll and you'll you'll declared been around but just listen to how the voice dominates. This isn't flashing. Politics is about elections. This isn't about about about terrorism winner to have taken over. The democratic party hijacked it from their own speaker. You think they've hanging over angela interesting. It's so interesting. This is angela rye exactly what it is yeah. Yeah i have the same attitude. The setup would have been very different for me but okay. Let's listen well. Let's let's because l. because i don't care about this bull crap. This is just a bunch of people bitching and moaning at each other. I don't care about domestic. She has to say but i do care about her voice and how it easily steps all over both cuomo and the other guy thing that turn at the same time you understood can hear pennsylvania the muslim congress the time you chose third term hijacking jacking. I beg to differ because they've hijacked depart here remar on their interesting credit rettig party for me but the great radio looking at country are white men white men who think like you that is greatest. You're absolutely right. It's all because of guys like me. That's silly rhetoric. You get your on years knowing how dangerous times are right now. Defending this nonsense calling people these folks. What's although recent research at the table table. Hold on what's angela on the patrick accurately. There's philly joe who's shows it. Come down so we can have rational conversation station. That was my favorite yes. She has a great voice. She's a very annoying person. She is full of crap is boo who lay and she's been on c._n._n. For a long time with this annoying voice i think you should hire as your personal spokesperson. It's astonishing her voice. I mean i didn't i just 'cause i was listening for the message that i that's. Why didn't clip it for that. I mean the idea that you can't use the word hijacked because it's it's. It's demeaning and just just to add to that. I mean you did hear the point where she keeps saying that white men the problem. I mean you heard that right. Okay that pisses does racist but it's the way it cuts through everything else. That's what i was impressed by discreet. She voice voice of hers is perfect. It's perfect voice. That's why she's there. They have selected her specifically for. She was just a runner at the black congressional caucus. She wasn't anyone's when important and then she got on c._n._n. She's good at yapping over people and she's good to go. She's got a career. I love this part table. Reset the table. Although what's angela clear the patrick seconds actress name philly lo who's show. Is it now i. I don't know today's television standards but back in the day when i was on on the television if you're an interviewer or you had a panel of people and you resorted to pay who shows it you gotta talk into very amateurish. It's it shows you have no control. You don't know what you're doing and it's it's pathetic. Maybe it's okay these days. I guess but you know you talking to us like this done on purpose. There's there's no reason to control room can cut people off that can do a lot but it but because she is getting her she's the one is dominating komo. She must've give her this show and he's been wanting her own show for a long time. I'd say don lemon beyond. Look i watch your back. Watch your index finger. Would that would be a good person to replace limited. We'd be good to with her promise. I get the sense that she's stupid and <music>. I'm sorry i'm sorry don. Lemon is the shining light hello. Let's get back to the programming means perfect guy. That's what i get the sense that she's odometer army and probably couldn't do a show yeah this or she's a prima donna. That would be horrible to be running show well. I'll tell you this. She would be a good good hate. Watch people would be totally into it. More hate watching than than lemon lemon is to is no. He's named ambi yeah yeah and he better watch his index finger. She's coming for him. Speaking of old white guys being the problem this carries over into the business news fox business news you can carve out those that are good for the environment social and governance don't have board members of a bunch of old people guys white guys sitting around the table. We'll fallen asleep then we need to upgrade. We need a face lift. I think to some degree. This is what they're saying but they're not going to shift away from profitability for sure investors today. Especially millennials are looking for this type of representation their portfolio and he didn't get that and he said yes there is a genuine shift on the part of society which wants capitalism to be less gung-ho for profit. No i'm not saying that its profit number one as you say however we're under more scrutiny if you have been running a fortune five hundred for a long period of time and your board members on average seventy eight years old and they're all white guys yes and they don't have diversification day. They don't have younger thoughts. You're gonna come under scrutiny from investors. Okay fep one fepblue. Don't hold on a second. I'll bet you in a second yeah. I guess we're screwed. We'll be under scrutiny bogus argument to of course one is the most experienced people you can get and you just just there's random throw a bunch of diverse people onto the boards various companies. Don't you know that most companies do better when you have of women in senior imagine management. Who's where's the a._b. Comparison where's the proof of that assertion. Oh false equivalency what aboutism find find a proof of that assertion. You'd like my lip cart full equivalency man back off with what about his you know i it. You have a bitter voice to do that character i do now to it's too dumb dogs. Everybody we get shit forward but dogs are indeed people to. I cannot stop being on this tip. <hes> we have replaced dogs that we played replaced children with dogs certainly here in austin texas. We've replaced them. Not only the what somebody wrote in and said the resent our donations done the lasch's because you condemned dead dogs. I did not condemn dead dogs but i did make fun of the constant comparison of dogs to children specifically babies. You never hear this is my toddler. You never we're here. This is my teenager. No it's always my baby. How old is your baby in a year's stinky old and i love dogs exactly i have no problem with dogs but owners and oh my god anyway i could go on forever. It's fine. It's fine but i am right about this. We are replacing children with dogs and channel four in the u._k. Has made a show about it. Then you don't british trina joe racy is coming to the aid of desperate parents for the controversy approach to parenting unpack monoclonal dying. I believe in the concept leans that they still wear my slide given a door of using job training techniques uh here last week here's adult whether an with the dog they wanna gonna be good boy. Can you really train your baby like a dog now. At eight on channel four there you go yes us. Can you train your baby like dog. Yes and they brought in the dog trainer and this is one time when video would have been good. She says sit you hear there in the clip sit and the dog and the kid both sit down is is phenomenal. That's just listened to your. I think dogra tired. They want to be good boys. Can you train your baby like a dog eight on channel four. When i see a choke chain around some baby then i'll wonder well. You're no stranger to the leash true but that's not for training is to keep him from running on the tracks his life saving measures yeah. It is a big difference <hes> brexit. I this would fall under the header of. I don't know but what we were talking about this. I'm pretty sure i said what are you laughing about you. Ho homing didn't get clipped this morning from this network joe joe and i will do so. I'm glad you brought brexit because now i can talk about. I just clip to clip but i can talk about their latest scheme. Okay well here want. Here's what i heard heard. The boris was hanging out with angola in fact the have the clip and he's like whatever and she goes it and then he goes <hes> yeah. I think we can still come up with a deal in thirty days. It's aggressive but i think we can do it. This guy is not taking the u._k. Out of any yes of course i think there is ample scope to do a deal and dive explained. I think pretty clearly what needs to happen. We need to remove those elements of the withdrawal agreement that simply don't work for once. We get rid of it. If we can change it then i think i think there is the real prospect of making progress very rapidly indeed besides their backs off the hook for the next round going into maybe joe by the way i think what we need to do is remove it the whole entire remove the the backstop and then and then work as transfer markle says on the alternative arrangements and <hes> <hes> there are abundant solutions which are prophet which of already being discussed. I don't think to be fair. They've so far been very actively proposed in in the last three years by the british government but i may say i'm very glad <hes> listening to you tonight. I get to hear that at least the conversations on that matter komo properly begin and you've said a very blistering timetable thirty days if i understood you correctly. I'm more than happy happy with that lease this. You know what's going to happen. They're not really right. They're not going to brexit. They're gonna kick him. Out and nigel garage will become prime minister. They're out of control. What boris johnson nigel farraj iraj becomes prime minister. I would love to go back <hes> i think probably ten years nine nine years for sure and find notes that we got from our british listeners back then because we were big fans of nigel farage just for his polemics. Oh yeah yeah that's the e racist g hick wide you like him. This is no good. He's gonna go nowhere going. No no one cares about it and these are all spotted early and we stayed on the train and we were corrected as i think we are often so i'm watching this <hes> clip. You're the latest here going forward and i did. It wasn't wasn't concise enough. Digital wasn't really clear. It would've senate this morning. The thing they're pushing now is is the is the is the catchphrase freedom of movement. I seem to be really hounding on his freedom of movement and so they were out and man on the street. Do you think think it's gonna be okay because with brexit. You'll have no freedom of movement yes. This is a big thing yeah. I know yeah as if you're now oh you got you got the lead boots on and you can't move can't even leave their town. Look down. It makes it sound like a straight jacket straight jacket. You can't move you can't do anything and this is the same thing with his ireland border backstop nonsense. What difference does it make make if they put a stupid border guard at this on all hold on a second now. That's you that you're wrong. Because the people of i am the republic of ireland and northern ireland people <hes> had a real problem with the border. They're happy they finally got rid of all the problems and they are are worried. They say they that the problems will come back. If we have a physical border to pass through border just have it as as just a guy you could phone into your gun and flown into europe where you go into the customs thing. There's two doors. One is green. One is read. You've got nothing to declare your walk off. The plane boom. Go through the bar and you're now in the country took bat long the united states stop. Everybody scan the bags. They do all this stuff. You don't need to do that. You could just have a green. They have the border there have a big green red and just pat people back and forth as fast as they want to or through the green whole. I don't see this being a huge impediment was gonna re trigger the irish republican army or anything in between i don't know but i'd like a t shirt that says the green whole that's all i i want to yeah. Let's probably is all you want but that said i just don't i mean this freedom of movement thing. They got everyone's saying oh god. I don't know why i'm going to do and they had to hold on stops british. Stop stop stop them. This is not entirely correct. The the freedom of movement thing is also mentioned on the e._u. Side and it is not just about the backstop and the border between the republic of ireland ireland northern ireland. It is about the freedom to go work. That's no i i did for said that but i'm telling you that is mentioned the backstop being an element okay okay. I'm i'm a fan. I'm expanding okay. I'm expanding so right attacking you just they always send the emails emails to me so i'm trying to adamant curry's war god is easy. It's easy to remember yes the the freedom of movement in my experience the way people mean it is now. I can't go and work in amsterdam now. I can't go work in frankfurt now. Oh i can't go work in fill in the blank and that's true until something has worked out or if that's worked out immediately. That's really an icy. That moore has people who don't want to be in the u._k. They're the ones bitching on freedom of movement. You basically want to personally actually actually brexit to go work somewhere else. Just move there yes you. Would you wanna work in amsterdam in holland because you like it better than you like liverpool. This move there become a citizen yeah yeah. They don't wanna do that is temporary marriage. Boris johnson <music> as a guy is a nut job. He's you know what i'm happy the u._k. Has someone like this now because i got a little tired of trump bit. Here's a boris johnson. Who is an anti anti vaccine same time. The world health organization stripped the united kingdom. That's measles free status after it declared that had been eliminated just three years ago complacency on the part of parents the need to get that second <hes> vaccine but also also. I'm afraid people have just been listening superstitious mumbo jumbo on the internet and stuff thinking that <hes> the vaccine gene is is a bad idea. That's the precious governments inviting social media companies to a summit on how they can be to promote accurate vaccination information. No there you go colluding with the government. It's called censorship but okay. You can call it a conference. If you want. Gotta love that yeah. Gotta love that hey let's. Let's figure out how we can tell people how wrong they are. They need to end this is not a pre appro or antibac- statement and just as you gotta be careful when the governments are telling you what to do telling you what to do. There were two who i'd like to play these two types. There's a lawsuit against google google for their youtube subsidiary from prager you and they have filed the this is something that we've been talking about. When when it comes to section two thirty of the communications decency act which of course is what spawned the commercial internet services press' known today as the social media et cetera and the idea just briefly. It's explained in this clip that a you could host. Someone's user generated content. It was referred to at the time <hes> u._g._c. user generated content free. You know they do it themselves. As fucking idiots keep blue. They're gonna make a business out of this so you could not get sued for libel but of course you have to adhere to the exact it words of the statute and prager you is taking a alphabet to court <hes> they did a full six minute video of shortened down just to give you the basic basic of what their lawsuit is about the most important lawsuit in america right now and perhaps the free world just prager universe. I don't i don't talk about that. The world's freedom depends on youtube the most important lawsuit in america right now and perhaps the free world does prager university versus youtube youtube was infringing on our right to free speech. We filed in federal court in late twenty seventeen seventeen and thereafter in california state court. Wait a second you might say youtube which is owned by google. There's a private company. Can't they do anything anything they want. The answer is yes and no yes if they are a publisher know if they are a public form so what's the difference. This gets right right to the nub of the matter a right to the nub of the matter. That's a typical lawyer. I guess he has no heart can't say heart the nub so what's the difference. This gets right to the nub of the matter. A publisher chooses the content that resides on its site the new york times is a perfect example. You can't write a story and just expect the new york times to publish it. The times chooses would appears on its pages or website in if they published a story that contains militias lie more violates copyright law. They can be sued prager. You is also a publisher decides. What material gets placed on its website. Most sites are publishers in contrast a public forum which can be physical location like the classic townsquare or a shopping mall or virtual location like a website his a place that must allow individuals and organizations to exercise their free speech rights youtube is an example of a public form in fact youtube describes itself as a public for him he make a video you hosts it and anyone with an internet connection can watch it. Facebook is also a public forum and so as twitter. Here's why this is so oh important a public forum under section two thirty of the communications decency act allow co sponsored by democrats and republicans and passed by congress in nineteen nineteen. Ninety-six is not subject to liability for content placed on its site. If someone posted a video about how to build a bomb or writes a threatening comment the a public forum website cannot be held legally responsible for that content. That's a good thing it gives youtube and other public forms the chance to host a wide variety of material from nature videos to political diatribes without fear of being sued and it worked and then it didn't the few years ago the social media giant's google google facebook youtube and twitter started to behave not like public forums but like publishers stopped following section two-thirty which specifically typically requires that these websites promote a true diversity of political discourse and began to judge content by their own political and social criteria so and by the way i pulled out every three second gap between every sentence he read so that was painful as it was it was much more painful before i chopped down and i think this is i think this is interesting this lawsuit because it goes after different part of the statute which is the description <hes> this a light to description but it is a description of some of the responsibilities and i think they i think they can argue it yeah. I've i've always believed this. I wrote a column last year and p._c. Magazine that said that by facebook and twitter. I said they're publisher and one of these days something something has to be done about it because they're not acting like publishers and they're i mean they're i mean. They're acting like publishes. In the day they call products. They take out terrorists stuff they take out they don't like and they have buildings full of people that look at things and decide whether should be removed not including these some of these very lame videos at prager you has been had pulled including an alan dershowitz explanation of the founding of israel. Why would you plus man. It's like bid the b. b. S. man hey where are isreaeli nights by the way i don't hear from them anymore. That's a good point join little were. I don't see him on twitter. A lot of israeli listeners sergio no we. We have a couple of nights from israel. I have not heard from anyway. Sorry continue. Can you on your good point anyway so they're written about this and i sent a column over to that law firm and <hes> <hes> you know. I don't know if they're gonna how they're gonna handle this. Whole thing is about time because it there'd be if somebody put here's my concern and i've seen it somebody on youtube or anywhere. Any of these systems published something libelous. You should should be able to sue the publisher. I'd bet you can't because of the section two-thirty supposedly these are not these are forums like a. I don't like a bulletin board at your local career. You know you can just pick something up there there. It is yeah. I think so too is international. I mean the germans germans. Don't you to all these guys. They've they make him take down any nazi stuff and they gladly do it. Yeah you can you can you can have separate. He can't do yeah yeah. Well i before i do and say anything. <hes> i could not resist. I went to try out the new burger king taco since you said taco ria i get that left left myself open. Yes for the cross examination. Now you can george tacos subject. No i just wanted to say that up. I i love me a hard shell taco and in the commercial they look looks so good and the people eating them look so happy. Let me tell you this is a piece of shit product it. It comes flatten. It looks like a case of d the ah it's it. It gets soggy almost jack in the box taco cau- it looks nothing like the pictures nothing like the commercial it. It has the taste you can't even. I am right now. I'm putting on blast could not even see what was in there. Oh what a piece of crap wrap up you ever had talked a jack in the box taco. No okay not being jack in the box. I'm not a big jack in the box sky by telling you this right now. You're byu should do this okay. I'm gonna do now that you've entered the realm of taco ravi laka reviewer you you have to go to the jack in the box and get a jack in the box taco to compare it to the burger king taco. Yes it might not ataka wrist. Taka restock arista nailed it. Yes thank you all right back to youtube after this slight detour dave rubin wait a minute that you brought up the taco thing bring a mine uh-huh. I'm sorry yes because you are also talking to reprise at taco bell because they tried to get to the french fry game with some dip they there's coated with some god god awful powder or the worst french fries you can buy anywhere. I've a feeling taco talk. Maybe a whole segment. Take taco talk with your doctor. Is there a podcast. That should be a podcast taco. Talk with your talker recess adamant john. Hey hey john. How's your or your being back to back to google. Dave rubin who is of course horsa he's a leading warrior on the front against <hes> against censorship and what youtube is doing and the d platforming and the cancel culture because he's witnessed at first hand and <hes> and i applaud him for doing that so he had a panel that he pulled together with a number of people talking about d platforming and on that panel former facebook <hes> guys been been at facebook for seven or eight years. I'm sure he has his money and he's fine. He's doing other stuff bryan amateurish wjr and he's asked and wouldn't you know it. The guy inside the company's is saying exactly what we've been saying about d platforming on this show since since the word d platforming was invented. I mean just a little insight on on how in terms of what makes it hard to be transparent and a little bit about how these algorithms work whether it's komo news feed or or demonisation on youtube so what they have is some sort of ban list of if you talk about these topics or use these words with your fear an objective or you're on the right <hes> you're gonna fall into this category and we're going to treat you this way. That's not how it works. What's essentially essentially happening and this is true for both youtube and facebook on the democratisation for example what they're trying to instantly advertisers from is the risk of their brands being tarnished by controversy. That's that's the thing that advertisers are worried about. They're worried about the fact that if they're associated with something that's considered hateful or hate speech or politically incorrect that that's going to blow up. It's going to tarnish their brand that's going to they don't want to be associated with that. Is that a very strange thing though because i don't think say before the internet if you were watching any n._b._c. sitcom you were in thinking that whoever tidied aid endorse that particular episode of the cosby show or something like that i think people have become a lot more sensitive about it and they've become much more become somewhere activist like about it and saying like oh. You're you're right next to that ad therefore we're gonna try to punish you in control you in this way and so what i've understood from the advertisers any now i didn't work on that part directly but i've spoken to folks inside facebook about this. That's essentially they're concerned. It's not that they have any against objective is or they're against people on the right <hes> <hes> they don't want to be associated with something that could become controversial and so the problem for these companies becomes. How do we predict what's going to become controversial and the way you do that. That is not that you have a team of human beings who are deciding what's controversial. It's not the answer that you build fairly sophisticated models using artificial intelligence and machine learning but essentially try to predict what's going to be controversial and what's not okay so without going to matrix right now. Aren't the humans the flaw in the system there yeah i mean these systems are built by humans who have their own biases and all that i mean i look at it from a higher level than that like i. I think the flaw is what you are saying. In the sense of like like you can't be that sensitive about being associated with with content. That's controversial because it is it is is impossible to build models that are going to predicts this stuff. Accurately those models end up predicting. Nobody can even tell you you might look at it it from my perspective and say like kind of fuzzy looks like they're biased against conservatives or objective or whatever it is but in practice the way these models workers there are hundreds of thousands of levers. Nobody knows what they all are. They're trained. Essentially you with data. Sets that are again. They're trying to reduce controversy and essentially with them and that's the advertiser concern at least and that's where it's coming from but there's no sort of ban list on far-right or right exactly. That's the whole problem. It's what has always been now. Are there biased people pulling the levers absolutely to something in there. That was was funny in catch k. Wh why did he keep saying it objective est yeah because he's he's an iron ran guy. I guess that's gotta be at or somebody is at the company. Maybe he was always a randy in any that's why he had to aleve or maybe face. I haven't heard that word for decades know. We talked about an ran. Who you're a big fan of yeah. We talked about objectives ever heard you ever use. The word objective isn't well. You're wrong because we went into in fact you and integrate d of detail about the bull-crap. Oh crap objectivism after i said hey i read this book. I kinda liked it. Atlas shrugged little rat objectivism player. Remember just not me. It's exactly so you. I am nailing your dream. No no we did talk about yeah. We david dream okay all right well. We have archives i. I just found in that clip. It was very very that he kept bringing that up. I agree. I'm glad you did catch it. Okay of course then the troll room caught it to people people people do listen and they also listen to their customers looks like gillette has figured out that their idea of causing controversy with the best of non combat which backfired spectacularly with a five billion dollar right down on the gillette property so they've gone back yeah they've gone back. They've changed. They are now going to stop talking about toxic masculinity and they're going to local heroes as we see a firefighter in australia wake up in the morning getting ready to shave moylan been thought fodder for nods amy's people sometimes if it's scary it can be <hes> mm-hmm luck anyone who has a job to prepare not just in terms of your whitman but also mentally and physically environments. It's mandatory for australian. Forefathers clean-shaven their vice mass. Keep an airtight seal sometimes titled kyle's but you're trying to control your stress response. Lots of laws skin shaving everyday can cause redness and they retire that komo honestly. It's not defy worry about most. It's more the concer vonda on thank god the raisa designed skin irritation after playing the i'm taking away your clip of the day we used to have something for that. Didn't we worse clip of the day we don't. I don't have anything and maybe christie. I thought we had a thing that reversed. Yes yes. I'm correct. <music> gone took it away from me now. Can i bring it back. Talk goes because i plan this once. We want to talk about it. You're gonna do that but i'm listening you. Wanna talk about delete first first and then go to tacos again. Now i wanna talk about july. Don't care by gillette well. I'm going to bring it back around to an article in the new york times which shows exactly exactly what stage we are in the podcast revolution map. We went through this stage yet. We went through this. We we we. I've said many times. You can't monetize the network. It doesn't work this is not going to end well and there's this whole article about fast food companies doing podcasts and according to the new york times what's more surprising people are actually listening to them. Oh bull crap now. The thing that got me though and it's a whole it's a whole article about <hes> so gizmodo is producing the mcdonalds mcdonald's the sauce podcast but then i got to gimblett gimblett is working for new balance creating a show about clothing and sneaker culture. This is the death knell of the podcasting network the minute the podcast network take it from me. I had one the minute. The podcast network resorts to getting in advertisers to make a show for that advertisers heiser product. You're on the brink of another round of finance. This will not work for gimblett this the any of these work for anybody know any of these podcasts companies that are going to make payroll by making podcast for their advertisers who should be advertising on their outstanding. Podcast is going down the tubes. Yes i can't agree more and in fact the whole thing. There's some thought i hadn't i'd lost it. We did that at meal. We we did the r._d._x. Seven we did <hes>. We had a bunch of a bunch of sketches et box motorcycles. We did boxing plo goodness yes so this is worse was going to say this is worse worse. I tell you force eight of ad had it worse than it is. The pits it is the pits is really bad. We on the new york times. The new york times is in on this somehow because there's no way that people are flocking to a taco podcast done by taco bell whoever the sponsor well they say that talk a little bit about the shell bill. We got bill in here from the shell manufacturing facility outside of nashville taco. Shell makers makers bill how to build yourself yeah just what you do at the taco manufacturing taco shell company so i thought i was going to be bill. You played both roles. You know your bill okay interview interview bill here taco manulife tacos manufacturing bill bill are you doing. I'm good. We got bill on on skype. Yes <hes>. I'm sorry bill so he's been doing this taco shells bill well well first of all thanks for having me on the shell cast a really really enjoy talking about the different kinds of taco shells that are out there <hes> so far. We found that the one that looks like a <hes> case of de stuck together. We can't see what's inside seems to work the best for the for our tacos but that's not the way taco bell taco is bill. You actually worked for taco bell or are you just a generic shell maker. The taco bell buys from your a contract oh hey would this is the shell cast. I got all kinds of shows big shells small shells that got wacky. Shell zany. Shells got colored. Shells got hardshell ossoff shows. I got shells too. You who's the inventor. I was very fascinated by this. By the way who is the inventor think el paso makes these and and the shell has got like a bottom so as it goes down hard shell and it's got a bottom of this about an inch wide and then it comes up on the other side so you can actually stand ended up the shell that was that i think we should stop what we're ahead. I'm going to show us little by donating. We know agenda imagine all the people who could do full yeah that'd be they just weren't up for it always had to end this somewhere. No could've gone on. I know oh. I know you talked about. Maybe there is something to that but let's say somebody please register shell cast dot com and the taco show with your toc arista. 's show talk. Show yeah the taco. I think i can talk for hours about tacos bitchy by him. That's for sure. She ended taco truck. Todd goes it becomes more interesting but let's thank terry ruling out there and niles ohio. Oh and she says john c has a note or earls roses right. It says j. c. D. as a noted. Let me see if i can find a terry for you. Let's see if i on this. It is <hes> i team. I want to wish my smoking hot boyfriend chris hansen. I happy forty six on august twenty second. You have your list and the ad it yeah okay home aunt so it's from is from who terry terry what's her last name the brew lick ruling for you l. a. and to smoking hot boyfriend chris hansen k forty six is twenty second or sixty today. I'm sorry you've got yeah i do. He punched man the mouth of few years ago and i can't think of a better birthday gift in donating towards his knighthood as very sweet you both for for keeping us sane for thank both of you for keeping us both saying and <hes> so she says the thank you notes. Actually a car are did says thank you on the front. Thank you card yeah i. I should mention this so there's another one that just comes up in the conversation somewhere but the baroness of kendall county sent a note about the actually do this remind me to read her note when you do the meet up rundown because i've got a meet up okay okay. She's doing okay all right not a neil's bunker in hamburg deutschland hundred eleven dollars and eleven cents brian man dan in burlington wisconsin another birthday under in two dollars eight cents sir geoff yerkes over here in concord california. I need to get back with him him on a needs to deducing deep. Do we've been doing these the red fox. Things and i haven't done anything for like hours that you're ready fox guy. I think it's been longer than two years ridiculous nicklaus formoso one hundred dollars. I john patrick in decatur illinois one hundred dollars leah delancey blasio balon ceo way that she has fifty dollars of the donation towards jessica stobie's knighthood or damehood in honor of her twenty twenty eighth birthday best friends who listened to know agenda together. Stay together probably true yes to her after her best buddy. That's very accessory. Misery sweet it is sir sean north carolina hundred <hes> trigger trevor malka nelson hundred he wants a d do she's digital deduce d- he's a minister and a progressive aggressive church and cannon avia longtime member of the left but had to walk away after the left went insane. I now consider myself politically homeless. That would be people who consider themselves politically <hes> experiencing homelessness say it right especially in canada after certain anonymous person began posting on eight ten and october twenty seventeen began a relentless program of research into the wild and weird and the hidden and i heard john merica podcast fast during that research. I still want to hear them on america. <hes> since it's getting us listeners and producers i listened to know agenda after that and became hooked. It is now an integral part of my week. What you do is not only astute and very often hilarious though it is a comedy podcast after all but absolutely crucial in this time in history keep up the good work jets much appreciate it. Thanks again rev t thanks rev put in a good word for me. Ian field britain hundred anonymous a hundred another anonymous one hundred from bonham texas nicholas campbell campbell in wheat ridge colorado another birthday and had other third and final end finally making my first donation after my brother matthew termi onto your show a couple of years ago years ago so he needs a can you do this. We both listened to your show live on sundays mondays and thursdays and we'll chat back and forth during the show this works out well as we rarely get to see each other these days. I hope this small donation helps of course it does thank you very much and he also says ten the douchebag to matthew campbell for letting me be the first donate indeed an outrage. Yes inexcusable sergei tour of the north texas swamps in providence village texas nine nine nine nine. Sir patrick kabul the earl of tennessee nine nine nine nine. He's got a birthday to his son. James aims ryan-brady pittsburgh pennsylvania ninety. One forty can just patrick's note happy birthday to my son james. I'm so proud of the little man he is becoming. He will have to join sir felix wilson at the roundtable very soon. Thank you for all that you do. Thank you. Thank you for what you do cer- patrick cobo. You'd the man ryan braid in pittsburgh pennsylvania ninety one forty taylor zella the sir sin city signer signer and alfa reta georgia eighty eighty six asserted dude named ben in los angles california eighty eighty six sir kevin mclaughlin laughlin earl earl earl full luna. Is that right. I don't know i've luna yeah earl of locust the locust north carolina eight. Oh eight boobs sir paul webb in twickenham middlesex u._k. A oh eight with a birthday coming up alex campbell or they call tampa florida eight. Oh a lot of these big big boob taxes eight. Oh eight michael nine mine in spokane washington eight oh eight we also did it mentioned from sir josh that he's the sad puppy is what got to him. Hamma course jeffrey anderson stuart florida seventy five sir charles or wyoming seventy three seventy three john williams saudi therese seventeen in penrose rose north carolina bruce johnson edina minnesota seventy to fifty john jonathan williams with seventy three three seventeen. You guys are the lens which brings the world into focus. He is november four victor x. ray and he is no longer douchebag so i'm going to deduce our thilo. Ham sounds like he's an extra deduce which is not the kind of x-ray amasi charles of wyoming thing is a hamlet mazi diseases call letters there. Oh yeah november juliet seven victor right seventy. Three's kilo five alpha charlie charlie early choral even know your call sign anymore. You don't yeah yes kevin johnson. Six liquid natural gas good. You saved erica. Mackerel wits in sikora new mexico sixty nine sixty nine. I did do bruce johnson. Edina yesterday did <unk> jake fernandez in kennewick washington washington six six six major donation after being knighted welcome back circle off sixty six eleven scott walls wallace scott wallace sixty and the end of the san antonio meet up apparently so that's the san antonio meet up rolling hills fifty nine seventy three <unk> alpha. Oh yeah we do have adler s- another w sixty seventy three's aaron garcia tempe arizona five five five five ah spin eric jansen in austin texas your buddy. I think thank you for your call is mentioned in the post that you didn't have enough something austin frame. He's like you mentioned in the past. You don't have enough austin friends would love to try to scrounge together a no agenda dinner sometime time. If you're interested we call those meet up so we'll do another. One definitely been looking forward to it and mercury. Atom is a loner mccurry avs in saint louis missouri fifty five chinese interview karma for upcoming m._d. Ph d. interviews interviews. We'll do it at the end for yana sure reddy kilowatt double nickels on the dime fifty five ten <hes> in his birthday. I don't think he is k. Would we have now a huge birthday list today. Yeah it is read it to them under i read it to me. Okay august twenty second. He's gonna be forty eight. Who oh kerry colton sorry carry carrie colton cory cory colt corey brewery cold in cleveland cleveland heights. Actually how old are we being five forty. The eight on the twenty second does today. He says he started listening fresno choice for the here. It's true at meetings uh-huh. I'll bet annoying bet again. It's true stand. Gombe bergh's died. Daas gombak stops stocks luke rayner and london u._k. Collected karma does work. He says any any donates double nickels on the dime nancy murphy in san bruno california fifty to forty four where she had to meet ups surveillance in brentwood tennessee fifty fifty judo dedicated to the to to deduce lisa as a reward for feeding tilly the dog of no agendas very own beef fifty two pilot. Yes i saw the picture of her next to the beef. Fifty two big spent deed do so the next actually that when she was not standing next to ulaby fifty two north other wasn't or was it. What was she standing next to some small plane. I guess you also plays. I guess here's the ask. Can i pretty please fly along sometime. I'd love to be a ticket for one flight in a b. Fifty two kidding me yeah. They get little the gala kinds of seats in that thing cert yeah let's do it. Let's take a flight at beef fifty two not together. Dude named jim fifty one fifty robert number fifty one fifty jonathan evans fifty fifty matthew repco least port pennsylvania answering being the call to arms would fifty dollars in one sense thank you yen-si swiss. Secure summer are in houston texas fifty. The following people are fifty dollar donate donate tours name and location of available stunning with robert marsh actually starting with the ansi but robert marsh hartsville alabama emma a robert case in mill spring north carolina cassidy eastwood daniela boy patrick maycom sir patrick in <hes> in new york ark city george wushu who's also a sir in universal city texas in no place like that existed andrew goose sak it will hold on restart to install windows ten updates. No no one no one no cancel got. I changed it to restart later now now. I had to go to restart options while you're doing that. I i'll retreat back to robert marsh. Marsh who says hello i reached the donation threshold of knighthood one donation ago i would like to be known as sir robert of the limestone creek you we'll be and request that the musical stylings of johnson <unk> be played during the ceremony bongos are preferred but any instrument is welcome yet. That's not going to happen <hes> but we will put slide whistles and bongos at the roundtable so you can bongo in whistle yourself. Are you bow while i should mention this. So it says restart options. I says schedule a time and then it's ass has an on and off switch league just turned a stupid feature feature off right right right right. It wanted to click it work. It's just a button. That doesn't do anything it's just there for show uh another gem and so then i say i said to wednesday august twenty eighth big time i got i and then i've just as i'm talking into a resets to today by itself. You know why it's the <hes> it's that vulnerability they discovered so they're really forcing forcing everybody to update in the remote desktop protocol. Could you could pacman it could take the russians russians onward robert k to a fifty dollar donors. I've yet in sorry. I was interrupted by microsoft robert case in mill spring north carolina cassidy eastwood at our did her and mc maycom and then we'll chat and <hes> george bush i think in universal texas has happened andrew gussie in greensboro north carolina robert robert newbie bass car that ana in birmingham a luchino mos- in valby <hes> australia atop thomas let in shawnee oklahoma eric von martyr in van van nuys and oh. That's it wow what a list is. A list is a very good list. He says i missed a segment intros. Uh maybe others do too. Yes even the alternate. Universe is the views i missed the village idiots idiots these bitch and but we did <hes> dogs of people to jingle and other things now i now. I know what's what's been going on with your sound all day. Yeah i was going to bitch you after the show and said if you don't call up your damn i._s._p.'s and tell them stop throttling you. I want to throttle you. 'cause it's ruining ruining. The show is bad for the show because you've been ever since you switched networks ship. You know it's crackly but i know why because dan windows is downloading all of windows ten in the background. Look what you're probably grachev performance meter. I'll bet it's spiking. That wouldn't be surprised. Oh if anyone could make drivers for lineker i would use it then that we're still skype for lennox worthy crap. That's right discord please. Please don't tell me don't send me emails about how i can do. The show on on lennox is not gonna happen can't ship uh hey thank you to our producers who graciously supported us today. This perfectly makes except for the last show. Let's try and even it out so we have consistent amount of show every single time that would be great but i'm not complaining the beak the broke beagle did his job and again <hes> there are so many peasley will help with this show who listeners we have producers and we have producers who can give info info. We've producer can do artwork who can do clips you can do jingles. Some people just don't have the skill to do. The technical work do clips lipset cetera. Some people have no talent but that's okay you can still produce and participate by joining one of our monthly programs. What are you laughing about. I'm doing a great eight pitch hit. Insulting bill have no talent people have no talent in making clips picking great clips. You know it's okay people. We'll see things they send it. That's fine but if you really wanna help. That's how you participate. If you can't do the other things like chris wilsey like i'm gonna get back on my monthly imma dude. You don't have to donate ever again. You've done so much for the show so that's what i'm trying to make. A distinction of is like everybody can help everybody can pitches and and as i said under fifty dollars is for reasons of anonymity we don't talk about it <hes> because that's the first rule of the donation club and also as a people who are on our <hes> monthly's or some weekly or episodic programs pay chip in everybody lose. I'm throwing it all out now. Seriously please help us go go to the following website that should help us with support for our sunday show dot org slash and a karma's as requests this jobs jobs jobs and jobs. That's vote for you've got karma. The us rights and i have a note here to say john has a note here before what we do a quick rundown of the meat happenings notes baroness of bounty <hes> she looking forward to the san antonio meet up next saturday august seventeenth. I have plans to give away the first ten guests one of these trump twenty twenty bills who john packed up. You're reading a note for meet up that happened. Oh i thought you had a meet up report. Oh well she gave away these bills sales by the way these bills are dining but you can get on amazon. Okay everybody massive. Uh-huh here's meet ups you can attend these meet ups. <hes> just go to no agenda dot com today in charleston south carolina line and in toronto tomorrow. There's a meet up in salem oregon on the twenty fifth lincoln nebraska the twenty-ninth still on deck burning man block black rock doc city nevada the thirty first suzanne south bussan south korea and sanpaolo two separate ones obviously the thirty first of august petersburg ontario candida and moving into september fifth of september seattle washington the six in calgary alberta. The seventh in zurich net should be a good meet up the seventeenth pittsburgh p._a. And el paso las cruces the twentieth september southeast louisiana and nelson british columbia the twenty sixth of september las vegas and luxembourg luxembourg now on the list luxembourg and copenhagen checks in at the twenty eighth of september go to no agenda meet ups dot com to find out more about where you can meet like minded people of all ages all backgrounds re grace grace creed color religion but you'll all have something in common small make liechtenstein show up on the list. No agenda meet ups dot com edged discover today. The twenty second of august twenty thousand nineteen belated birthday sir paul webb celebrate on the sixteenth was happy birthday to <hes> sir american-carnage who turned twenty nine on the eighteenth lisa's has happy birthday to your daughter olivia may she was born on the eighteenth up new human resource congratulations brian man happy birthday to a son turn ten on the twentieth joel trench winchell happy birthday to caroline chase turns sixty on the twenty third tomorrow leah billing c._e._o. Happy birthday to jessica stobie the twenty eighth so she has twenty twenty eight today. Patrick cobos happy birthday was son james's turning nine bareness. Whack them all <hes> says happy birthday sir american-carnage turning twenty nine turns tonight m._e._a._t.'s we did that one terry rubik <hes> as happy birthday doer smoking hot boyfriend chris hansen forty-six day and corey colton in cleveland also forty eight two today's happy birthday from everybody here at the podcast in verse quite the list and we've got a couple of nights as well if you can grab blade monsieur devora robert the gentlemen step right up on the podium here with the founding expanded roundtable the no agenda nights and dame rather large when you belong here thanks to your support of off the no agenda show and the amount of one thousand dollars more and i'm very proud to kate the sir robert of the limestone creek and gentlemen for you we have cookers and blow rent boys and chardonnay slide whistles and bongos got warm beer and cold women trophies entire smoke we get hearts and how all redheads aheads and rise organic macaroni and plasticizers hits bourbon gauges and sock rubenesque woman rosa sparkling cider restaurant ginger gerbils and of course mutton in and meet for you had no agenda nation dot com had over their head and you details to eric the she'll and he will get that to you as soon as possible. It and we got one title change today but it's well deserved serves. Kutner now becomes the viscount of georgia ball of and he's taken overall. You can find out more as you go to that. I am slash periods and you learn where all of our nights and dame's are of no agenda nation who will be in charge of those protectorates <hes> during and after the armageddon and thank you again sir craig and thanks everybody who supports the show gracia's my friends. I have a actual deconstruction. Jill like to run right n._b._c. Which i i'm trying to get more clips from them because they always run these whip saws or whatever recall it whatever i call him. I keep changing the name and there's a good example. They ran this. I'm not gonna run ball but these clips but they did this essentially the clip. I'm i'm gonna play which is the wednesday trump. Rundown was almost identical to the tuesday trump but in the tuesday trump rundown they didn't have any whip websites so run yeah whipsawed where they say one thing and then they clip something else so here's a wednesday trump rundown and then i will take to whip sawed out of it after we hear the whole thing also making headlines this evening president trump's sparking new confusion on gun background checks polling new tax discounts off the table and feeding with denmark over his rejected offer to buy greenland all while doubling down his controversial remarks about jewish voters n._b._c.'s a._b._c.'s peter alexander is at the white house president trump tonight delivering mixed messages about enhanced background checks for gun buyers. Oh i have an appetite for background background checks. We're going to be doing background checks at the same time after another call with the n._r._a. Chief tuesday arguing the existing system is already strong. We have background checks but there are loopholes in the background checks. That's what i spoke to the n._r._a. About yesterday the president also appearing to reverse course amid concerns. The economy may be weakening outlook. He <unk> disputes after floated. The idea of tax cut tuesday payroll taxes something that we think about today saying it's not on the table at a tax cut now. We don't need it. We have a strong economy. The president again defending the ongoing trade war with china. This is in my trade war business a trade war that should have taken place a long time ago by a lot of other presidents delivering this self aggrandizing assessment somebody had to do it. I am the chosen one want. Somebody had to do it so i'm taking on china. President trump also digging in again painting jewish americans as disloyal. If they support democrats. I think that if you vote for a democrat very very disloyal israel after the jewish people many jewish groups have condemned the comments accusing the president of echoing an anti semitic trope the jewish people have dual loyalties and are more devoted to israel than to their own countries and tonight. The president's found another target blaming the prime. I minister of denmark a longtime ally for the abrupt cancellation of a state visit their next month after she ridiculed his desire to buy greenland it was nasty. I thought it was inappropriate. Statement all they had to do is say no. We'd rather not do that or we'd rather not talk about it. Don't say what an absurd third idea. That is the president's decision to pick a fight with an ally comes as he's advocating for a traditional adversary two days before heading to the g. seven summit calling for russia to be allowed back into the group before you continue with the deconstruction. This is only possible symbol because of his new format of the grass the chopper and just trump yeah. That's interesting okay. So i heard a lot of <hes> i mean he's also so making it easy for them to put this together well. They still can't do it without cheating yeah they can't they just can't do it. They can't bring themselves to it. If you listened to the tuesday version of the same thing it was pretty straightforward. There was no cheating in that one same exact report but somebody obviously at n._b._c. He really one of the worst of these networks said we m._s._n._b._c. <unk> of being the the epitome of it <hes> somebody said hey can you do this again but let's ah give the guy a little some nibbling here because it was like pretty soft and so they threw everything they could in the second report but it's the same thing but here's the two examples of the whipsawed that were in there and we'll listen to both of them and then you'll see how obvious it is but let's play a whip saw one arguing. The existing system is already a strong background check but there are a loophole in the background checks and that's what i spoke to the n._r._a. About yesterday he says the the quote says that he's he called the n._r._a. To telnet the existing systems already strong. That's not the clip. Pull the background on checks. I've got loopholes in them me here. How is that how how does what peter says in his analysis says the e called the n._r._a. To tell the background checks eggs are already strong. That's not that is not what he said in that clip arguing. The existing system is already strong. We have background checks but there are a loophole in the background. That's what i spoke to the n._r._a. About yesterday to be fair and not cheaters they would've used the other one where he said we. We got great background checks but he doesn't have that in any never said they were strong. No the n._b._c. correspondent asserts that trump said they were strong does not say that lies lies lies okay. Let's try to another example. After floating the idea of tax axe cut tuesday payroll taxes something that we think about today saying it's not on the table looking at a tax cut now. We don't need it. We have a strong economy what i want to play it again. After floating the idea of tax cut tuesday payroll taxes something that we think about today saying it's not on the table looking at a tax cut now. We don't need it. We have a strong economy where where in there does he float the idea idea. He says he's looking at them. We're looking to tax cuts. We're looking at task as a float float down to be specific. He says taxes aksa payroll. Taxes is something we think about you know. Who doesn't you get payroll taxes than thinking about something about the same as floating an idea. He specifically says yeah we think about any contradicted himself. We never contradicted him because he never said the for the day. I was a false assertion this. This is what n._b._c. does constantly in your officially on the trump defense force. I'm not defending anybody. I know i'm just condemning. N._b._c.'s poor reporting a bigot there. Your reporting is bigoted biased. Yes biased and slanted. It's terrible. It really is terrible. It is it is the best part of all those clips oops you played for me. Personally was the end of show i so i am the one i just can't get and just can't get enough of that. In fact part of that was pretty funny. 'cause they condemn everybody all in all these thinks he's god now if you watch the video trump dot on the lawn and and he he's he's mocking the whole idea yeah deters the left looks up in this guy throws his arms out and says. I am the chosen to joke what he should do. Nobody takes what he should do. He's done and he's already done. I am the chosen one. He tweeted a quote from the rabbi who said he's king of the jews. So of course now trump says he's king of the jews what you i should do now. Is i am the god of hellfire. Now that will be great. That will be fit. Well we <hes> we went in way over time to philly. It's are pissed but that means we have some good stuff to carry over a two sunday the second thursday show of the week and we look forward to seeing everybody the everybody who supported the show today financially or otherwise thank you so much is after all your no agenda show well and the beagle dogs that dog show too <hes> thanking today we have. Tom stark weather with end of show diddy. He we have a rule off productions and chris newbold with a great song about al gore great song looking forward to that's coming up on no agenda stream dot com after the show is mo- facts with adam adam curry the facts and fallacies enjoy that and coming to you from opportunities zone thirty-three in austin texas. We are in fema region number six for the governmental maps apps in the morning everybody by madame curry from northern silicon valley where it's still mommy. I'm john c. Devora we return on sunday right here on no agenda. Remember us at divorce dot dot org slash a until then audio smo- foes and ch- oh wait you science over fiction truth over facts are all over the place right at major chain restaurants and a thousands of grocery stores across catch well. Hopefully we learn what was going on. I have all the answers. I've been sitting on them waiting for america get there. I know that people love to embrace conspiracy theory. I let me let me give it had a nutshell in a very strange way weird of history. I ended up in the center. You've got to look at the at the small little bit okay. Okay naughty naughty impacted by advertisers on my show. I don't know advertise on my show. Wow clinton spokesperson calling the tweet ridiculous and of course not true. Just look out the window and what's going on. If you were writing a thriller when put in anything this obvious way just gets whacked <hes> <hes> before they fall the sharing unfounded conspiracy theory speculating is determined for years and years to find out what the truth is but i think that the truth is is at its core probably something if my company hadn't been successful we wouldn't be here today south enough with this stuff. Is it healthy. I say this the trains on a roll off of modern most beautiful most thrilling. Can you ride. Here's the california zephyr enjoy a and i got a topper toe. Yeah art <music>. <music> policy sold the door. Wait for it <music>. It wasn't that bad. Could there goes for you ask is he needs to live the time he has. Eh change a glasses. Bolsa counts who feels good wine gets to say under thousand every every day aw global with snow still falling down frizz poop as the in the debate now is about the best ways to move as fast as we can to solve this crisis. We all know that best ways to pay out record now lies beneath the money tree her personal scientists scaring in gives you know do black alabam the gun down uh uh mojo barack dot org slash and i am the one.

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Laurene Powell Jobs: Trump's rhetoric is "out of a dictator's playbook"

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32:55 min | 2 years ago

Laurene Powell Jobs: Trump's rhetoric is "out of a dictator's playbook"

"Hey, Recode listeners wanna tell you about another podcast. You should listen to we're living through historic times. The whirlwind new cycle often leaves us with more questions than answers. It's hard to understand what's going on in Washington and across the country. Stay tuned with Preet is a podcast that makes sense of what's happening. It's about the issues of Justice power, politics and democracy. The host is pre Berrara who led the southern district of New York perhaps the most storied federal prosecutor's office in the country. He's also a really nice guy been on his podcast, and we had a great time with signature calm and wit, pre answers audience questions and speaks with the people shaping history through their ideas and action previous guests include Hassan manosh, Nina totenberg, and Michael Lewis. Also may subscribe now to stay tuned hosted by pre Berrara it's available free on apple podcasts or wherever you're listening. Today's show is brought to you by state of pay with synchrony state of pay is a content platform exploring. What's new now next in payments, commerce and innovation? Check it out for expert analysis insights from interesting leaders and influencers on what matters to businesses shoppers, and how it all fits in the world at large explorer state of pay at synchrony dot com slash state of pay to learn more. Hi, I'm Karen Swisher editor at large at Recode. You may know me as an avid collector of Emerson's. But in my spare time, I talk tech. And you're listening to Rico decode from the vox media podcast network today. We're going to play a live interview. I recently did with Lorraine Powell jobs, the founder of the Emerson collective we spoke at the lesbians who tech summit in San Francisco about a wide range of issues, including her involvement in media, investing and more. Let's take a listen. I did a costume change. I live in the neighborhood. And I did it for a reason I felt very game of thrones today, my friend, Richard poplar just left HBO. So I'm doing this in honor of him. But this is very game of thrones to me. But what I wanted to do is take it off dramatically because the when Lorraine, and I went to Seoul cycle together. I'm not going to go into the details. But she kicked my ass. Let's just say I was like this, and she was like happily so cycling away. I I don't know that that's true. Secondly, would happens slow cycle stays at Seoul's. Really? In any case cut to the chase. She said she would come to this. If she got a lesbian suit tech squad sweatshirt. I was wearing one that's had bad ass inclusive. And so if you look onto your chair Lorraine. Homeless gives me being. I already know. I know this is a good end of already. So I'm going to take off my jacket in a dramatic way. I'm gonna put on my this is P as wife's one my tour at home. So I'm now apparently married to leeann disturbing many ways. And this is the rank you the rain you now have a bad ass inclusive sweatshirt pet you can wear and I want you to wear it everywhere else start right now. So we're going to sit back. Sit down. Now you now you have a fifty percent more people to date. Okay. The aren't stem for not all right? Okay. They're fucking idiots. But then he was gone. So clearly Hello. So let's start talking about you. And what you've been doing? I wrote a column about the rain when she bought pop up magazine, just recently. And there's a lot of very wealthy people such as yourself buying it media, but you've been doing it for a while. Let's start with that. And then I want to talk about some of the other things you're doing around art, and activism and things like that. But let's start with media recently invested in pop up you've been doing I wanna talk about why you're doing invested the Atlantic magazine you've been making American journalism project for local media talk a little bit about why you're doing this so happily we started investing in nonprofit media many years ago, probably eight years ago because of the real dissipation of the newsroom across the country both at the national level, but especially at the local level, and and all. Of the data. That is available to be seen is pretty disturbing and the balkanisation of news in the polarization of news, and the lack of -bility for people to actually find relevant local news all his coming together with these converging forces that are I think putting our democracy at risk. Putting our ability to converse with each other at risk bring our ability to understand each other at risk. And so there were number of really interesting journalists who started first issue area journals. So so, for example, great education writers, great criminal Justice writers, great environmental Justice writers who started nonprofit projects who we invested in. And then we have the great good fortune of some four profit media entities. Both at the start up level and those that existed for a long time like the Atlantic come to us. Because their business model is compressed. And they need an influx of combat on for me. It was a natural extension of the entire field that we're that. We look at it. Because you have Mark Mark Benny often who is who's been here. Investing in time. You have Jeff at the Washington Post. Yep. You have you. And there's going to be others. I think how do you. How do you look at it? And why do you see there's a lot of tech people doing this or tech money and stuff like that? What what was the thing that got you to do it because it was here. Okay. What was what got you to do this? What was the thing is that you thought that this was critical to democracy, or that you had an interest in media or this lots of subject areas, but this has been one that will focus on. Yeah. Our issue. Areas are those that we think are the most calcified and the most important that reflect the American values than that are important to democracy. So we work in education. We work in immigration. We. We work in virement and outside of that. It started become really obvious to us that that the cultural narrative that that the kind of indepth journalism that exposes the injustices in these fields was under attack from both of business model point of view from the internet from. Yeah. Exactly from from from the access to abundant free news. And so the advertising model is no longer viable model and the subscription based model took a long time to to concretize take off. And so they're just we lived in this time period for about a decade when we saw the collapse of of credible, viable, journalistic properties. So for me. I actually was presented the opportunity. I didn't go out with the notion that I wanted to buy property that that came to us from the owners, but you're presented with a lot of opportunities. Presumably, correct. Yeah. But not I guess we were really specific about that type of high quality journalism that we are both consumers of that. We think are really important to have a foothold as just local news or investigative news or things like that. Yes. And what Karen mentioned the American journalism project is a brand new project that is that was started by the CEO of Texas Tribune, and of talk beat magazines, and it's a nonprofit model that will be sort of a venture fund for local news rooms across the country, and they'll give both funding and technical systems because and back a lot of back end support that local newsrooms can no longer use. But organizations like the Texas. Tribune have found that having alternative revenue sources allows them to stay alive. So they have an amazing events business. And they have great podcasts. Upgrade investigative journalism that others by like propublica. But you don't see it as a charitable thing. Because like, you know, is it a chair does it have to be supported by incredibly? Well, I think no I mean that would that would not be the kind of sustainable model that I think any of us would like to see. The one of the founders of the American journalism project feels that local journalism and journalism in America. So essential to the health, and and and sustainability of our democracy that it should be seen as a civic institution. And I agree with him. I actually think that we should think about it. As as civic good apu- good that should be supported by public and private entities. What do you make of the attacks recently from the president? I think he's the key attacker of the media. I think it's right out of dictators playbook. So that's that's actually what people do to to consolidate power to call into question and narrative, that's not their narrative. I think the undermining of the media is in the last two years is unprecedented. And really scary and everybody should pay attention. And do you think it's working? Yeah. I do I do I think well, if you look at if you look at polls about a new probably know this better than I but at the degree to which people trust than any news source, and they trust even you highly credible. Fact checking organizations, and they're reporting it's at an all time low and shockingly low it doesn't help though that I think some media entities play into this where we just saw with BuzzFeed where there's sort of you know, there's a rush to have breaks before. Before everything's truly deeply vetted and that plays into Trump's rhetoric. And so we should be careful about that. You guys does that mean more? Thank you. I'll try harder. Pretty accurate. It's my brand kind of. Thank you. I know I says an accurate. She did wear the sunglasses in soul cycle dark room. Thought what happened? On the rain. We're gonna take a quick break now. But we've back after this with Emerson collective, founder, Lorraine Powell jobs. Today's show is brought to you by turbo tax. It's nice to have a helping hand especially when it's taxis and that hand is attached to a licensed tax professional with turbo tax live. You can talk to real CPA's and e as on demand who can review your return with you before you file and make sure you get your maximum refund. They can even check your work line by line. So that you can be confident. It's done, right. Who knew confidence and peace of mind could be synonymous with taxes. I didn't turbo. Tax live with CPA's and e as on demand CD tales at turbo tax dot com. Today's show is sponsored by thought works presenting. Go CD a modern CI CD tool that streamlines complex software, deployment, go CD. Visualizes your entire deployment workflow in a single view and allows you to trouble shoot a broken pipeline by tracking every change in real time. Go CDs supports popular cloud environments, such as coober, Netease, Docker AWS, Azure, and more. Download and use go CD for free. Go CD dot org. I'm getting back to journalism. So I wanna finish with the media. Do you expect to make more meat because in this expect to make online do you think of online and offline differently, and you expect to make more there were rumors that you were going to New York Times. I started myself. I know that. But which do you think of bigger things like like Jeff Bezos, like purchase not the other part of his life? Come on. Gotta love that embrace the media covering it. So there is that. So. Yeah. Actually, I do now that now that we have a sort of a really beautiful portfolio of properties that I think are are super high quality and important journalism. I'm open to more. I do think the more should come in the form more like the American journalism project where there's there's a fund that will support great local ownership and sustainability and find another model rather than rather than just rich people cumulating properties. That's not so interesting, and it's not sustainable either. Right. One more on this topic. When you think of the media is it going to have to be online. Do you? See? No, I don't think. So I don't think so I love print myself. I think that I think that the demise of print and books is is not accurate. I think will do there's sort of this asymptotically. But I think it goes down to about twenty five percent of people who consume media consumer through prineton. That's where we'll end up. I don't think I don't think everything needs to live online. And I think there are a lot of people who love the tactile portability of printing that way in one it's tuck it in their bag or under their arm now, one of the partners in the American jobs is Facebook giving away some three hundred million dollars to local there in that American drills kind of interesting that Google Facebook putting money into this is kind of like the arsonists ping to build the house. That's my that's my quote there. Oh, yeah. There are other allergies too. Right. Do you can they help should they help? Given the suck w. Okay. Here's something really interesting. Here's here's something that USA. Just drive me mad, which is. Philanthropists and I use that word because I'm thinking of people who who put all their wealth into foundation and built out philanthropy would use five percent a year of their pay out of the corpus to do. Good work. And then they ignored how the ninety five percent was invested and often those two things were at odds with each other. They would very happily not look at the environmental degradation of the ninety five percent. They were invested in coal in oil and extractive resources. And then on this side, they're trying to dress. Environmental injustice and degradation. And the fact that climate change is happening, and they never put those two things together sort of like this lobotomy took over. So I think in this way, they're not using the power of corpus. And that's what they really need to do is look at as look at their algorithms and look at the bias behind it. And they have to look at what they're allowing to happen on their platforms and take responsibility for it. That would be nice lowering be great. That's my goal. So let's go into storytelling because another thing you're doing is a lot of activity right immigration, which is another big topic. And one of the things you're doing is. You're trying to hit activism in very different way using artists. I don't know if any of you seen this amazing thing and use technology to do this Carney Irina. It's a VR experience of being on the border. It's really. Yeah. Talk about this. Because why are you doing this? Why are you funding things like this? I found it in. Credibly moving using art. And yeah. I think I think we're we're entering a golden age of art and activism and the blending of the two really exciting. So so we were approached by Alejandro and he was workshop ING VR experience. And so he want it was the first time that he was directing in VR, and he had a story that he wanted to tell he went around to agencies in Los Angeles and talk to people who had crossed the border and talk to them about their experiences, and why they came and he used the actual individuals as the characters in his experience, and it's a beautiful immersive experience that allows you to be on the southern border crossing into the United States with a group of people and you're appreciated by border patrol, and it's incredibly chilling and deeply affecting and it's one of those experiences that once once you have had it it never. Believe you. I don't know if you felt that you went through it. It's it's like one of those unease where the veil drops, and you now see, and you can never unsee it. And we thought it was so important that not only did we want to invest in the VR project, but we brought it to Washington DC. And we actually if you show that picture one more time. Yeah. So we renovated this this old church was set for to be demolished. And and so we worked with the city and they held off the demolition for year. And then we use this these pieces of corrugated metal that were that were picked up from the border. And so people had all routes, the walrus pieces of the wall. You built the walls. Just for a second. And for good. We we deconstructed. Some all's we want people to see what they're tying about. These are twenty foot tall things. And anyway. The spirits was visited by over nine thousand people in DC over peer to seven months a lot of elected officials and their staffs and a lot of journalists. And I think it was tremendous. We're now looking for other cities to bring it to we have a we're trying to retool the experience so that it can we can have been around more people. So it could be more portable, and we can have more people who through art inactive ISM. You also had large pictures you had a photographer that took giant pictures news put him outside of like Mitch McConnell's office you put. Yeah. Like put giant photographs of immigrants all over the place and all that. And then you were. Let me just tell you. I love when a woman gets a lot of money, and then you're using it for like these things. So you took pictures you also did one on the border. You had a baby looking that was JR's and salacious, and yes, we worked with him to install that. And that photo of the baby on the border was seen over billion times, that's sort of the really beautiful power of of art meets social media. So what what is why are you doing it that way because there's other ways you could do it? I mean, you obviously, we actually in Washington, you have a big, you know, I think as sort of all these hours in the quiver. So we use philanthropy we use policy. We have we have great policy people in DC. We use arts we use investing in companies. We actually do convenience. We do really. And I'd like to do for myself. I really liked to do sort of the. Under the radar more skunkworks type stuff. Yeah. Including visiting people in the Trump administration. Correct to talk about immigration these issues. We'll yeah. Yeah. How did that go that was actually with President Trump? To see repealed, DACA. What we met about. So didn't work. Very well. Yeah. So what does that happen? But he said he said, I really liked your dress. Yeah. I thought the things I will do just. Yeah. But you say that. I said God. I'm so glad I wasn't there because it'd be like fucking kidding me. That's. Go every what I should have been a billionaire. I really shouldn't. So good. Good. I could've been I I was there. I could have been right. Yes. It was. Yes. I would I was offered a job at Google when they like six people same thing Amazon. I said why would I want to do that? I'm a reporter. We're gonna take another break. Now. We'll return to this conversation with Lorraine Powell jobs after this. Today's show is brought to you by prudential prudential knows. Your finances are deeply personal impacting your health state of mind, family, dynamic and work. They sent wellness expert Alexandria, drain across the country to uncover. The challenge is getting in the way of your financial wellness along the way, she met Americans working hard to juggle their financial commitments see their stories now and learn how prudential can help you achieve financial wellness at prudential dot com slash take it on. Today's show is brought to you by synchrony. If you're looking to understand the so what of rapidly evolving technology and payment trans- checkout state of pay with synchrony state of patients insights from industry leaders and influencers that are fundamentally changing our daily habits and lives. They explore the possibilities of innovation in payments and commerce, and why it matters to brands shoppers in the world at large with state of pay synchrony serves up the latest in thought leadership innovation business intelligence and research that can help improve customer experiences explore state of pay at synchrony dot com slash state of pay to learn more. So what do you imagine going to change DACA? And that what has to go. So you didn't dress didn't work what twenty twenty what do you think is going to have to happen? Twenty twenty is exactly right. But oh, well, I mean, I I think we're all hands on deck. We have to have new leadership in this country, and there's actually so much destruction that has happened that needs to be repaired. There's been decimation across agencies. I think the problems are far more profound than any of us even everybody who's paying attention really are grasping. So we need we need someone who can both fix and rebuild and lead and leapfrog us forward. So that we need great leadership. Okay. If anybody has a question for Lorraine, we have just a few minutes for it. And see if does anyone have any questions he ends up come on right here. Stand up here. And then I'm going to ask question about education. That's the last thing that she's really focused on. You can also ask a question of CARA. No, you can't. Hi, thank you so much. I am a choreographer and a musician, and as someone working in the intersection of technology and art there can be this feeling of like needing to be chosen in order to get access to any resources to make art. And I'm just wondering from from your end. Like, what would you say to artists who are trying to make work that's really relevant and also can break through and be seen as something that's worthy of funding. One of my best friends is Brenda way. And she started OD see here in San Francisco thirty five years ago and. She she's she started out of a bus and how artists unfortunately are not highly valued at the moment. And so so they have to make do but her art took off started small and grew into something that that's a real cultural institution for the city. And I think that the lesson there is it does take time sometimes and sometimes there's a lot of struggle before there's breakthrough. But you know, I think social media while it can be a tool for destruction in division is also a tool for access and connection. And so luckily, you live at a time where you can put your you can have more people see your art, then otherwise would come and stumble upon it in person. But I think being both a musician, and a choreographer is a very cool thing because it probably. Having both artistic outlets probably make you better at each thing. So that's that's exciting. Maybe L W T. We'll have you perform and then you'll get you'll get a lot of that anymore questions. Questions for minimum. This large crowd. All right. I have two more things. I wanna talk about one is your commitment to education, I visited college track with you a couple of years it was two years ago. How do you how does that fit in because one of the things talking about earlier is making connections between things? Oh, well, college track is an organization that I started over twenty years ago. And it was actually the first time that I was in the social sector. It was the first time that that I knew anything about the rule of nonprofits and civil society and building bridges and being agents for change in that way. And I. And I also learned a lot about what it's like to go and ask people for money. We're public charity. And so you need a multiplicity of funding sources, and and I understood so many things about how to be a good philanthropist by being a by being the executive director of a nonprofit and this organization, which is still going strong and serving over three thousand students this year. We were we rebuilt because I went to speak to. A senior class in a local high school here in California was the first time I had been in a California high school because I didn't grow up here. And and I was shocked truly at the lack of access to information about college and anything after high school, and this was to a class of students who are self selected into this class because they wanted to go to college and not a single one of them had taken the SAT's, and they were already seniors. And then I just got so outraged in one class visit where I was it was supposed to be just telling them about what it's like to be an entrepreneur, I decided that I would come back every week, and I would be their college counselor because they had never seen one before. And of the thirty five students thirty three had not taken the courses they needed to take to even apply to college. And I was so offended and outraged on their behalf that I ended up selling. The four profit company I was running and just started this organization to see if I could be helpful. And if I could be of use, and it's everything I've learned and everything that we ended up creating was and is informed by the students and families of college track. Great and my last person speaking of that. One of the reasons I do like talking to you because you seem more woke than most people in Silicon Valley. I tell you exactly it's a low bar. Thank you for saying that. Really? How'd you get the barbed? You look it's been a reckoning this year, they got in the crap kicked out of them. Deservedly? You've been around these people forever. You know them. What does it take for them to start to behave? More like you and less like themselves. Have they gotten it? I mean, otherwise, let's just take all their money. Do the cost method and just take all their money? Too. Sorry. I mean, either way either way it's going, right? I think Bryan Stevenson who's such a brilliant and beautiful human being talks a lot about proximity. And I believe that I think it's it's not my nature to want to live in a bubble. But it's actually very easy thing to do. And I think that's actually one of the many detriments of excess wealth is it allows you to live in a bubble. And so I don't think they didn't actually change unless you have proximity. And and so you have to if you're in a bubble. You have to pop it, and you have to walk out of it. And you have to make yourself uncomfortable. And you actually need to be open to learning and changing. And most people are not do you think they will like I think the chances are better now than they were a year ago. I think that they're, you know, sometimes you need to get hit across the head with the frying pan. And then then you realize, 'oh thing I need to change. So I think there's going to be some forcing of changing. And I think maybe those who come from who come behind them will learn from their mistakes and not slip into the bubbles. All right Lorraine. How? Thanks again to Lorraine Powell jobs for joining me on stage into the organizers of lesbians who tech for letting us share the audio with you. And thank you for listening. You can find more episodes of Rico decode on apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, and please tell the friend about the show, and if you're in Washington DC, I'm doing a live podcast taping on April second at the studio theatre focusing on AI and self driving cars to learn more. Just go to events Recode dot net slash AI. You can also follow me on Twitter at charissa. Now that you're done with this go check out our other podcast, Recode media and pivot. You can find those shows wherever you found this one. Thanks for listening to this episode of Rico decode thanks to our editor Joe Robbie and our producer. Eric Johnson will be back here on Saturday. Tune in then. Hey, Rico, decode listeners, I'm excited to share that I'll be back at south by southwest this year, if you're going to be there or live in the area, you're invited to attend the deep end by vox media. That's our experiential space in the Belmont in Austin, Texas, which is just ten minute walk from the Austin convention center. Friday, March eighth through Sunday March tenth we'll be hosting a series of live podcast musical spotlights. Eater approved and much more. I'll be there along with Peter Kafka, and the host of the verge cast and boxes the weeds. I'll be interviewing Arlan Hamilton. And Wendy Davis and Peter will be interviewing Mark Cuban. Plus there may be a couple of surprise guests. If you want to attend you'll have to registered on bands because space is limited please RSVP at vox media events dot com slash s s w once again, that's box media, Vince dot com slash s s w the mission is free. But space is limited. So don't wait. I hope to see there.

Lorraine Powell Washington vox media founder Rico San Francisco Emerson Karen Swisher Jeff Bezos Seoul President Trump Texas editor Google DC Preet apple leeann CPA
Trump Criticizes Environmental Regulations; Top Songs Of The Decade

Here & Now

42:28 min | 1 year ago

Trump Criticizes Environmental Regulations; Top Songs Of The Decade

"From NPR and WBZ. I'm Robin Young. I'm Tanya Moseley. It's here now since taking office. President trump has steadily rolled back environmental regulations and attacked act renewable energy I it was. Led light bulbs then low flow toilets. His latest target wind turbines here. He is over the weekend then. Noisy indeed they kill the birds. You want to see a birth grade. You're you just go take a look a bird graveyard go under a windmill. Someday you'll see birds and you've ever seen ever in your life Tulu. Ola Anita is a White House reporter for the Washington Post and Tolo. What can you make of the president's? It's latest tirade against win energy. It's hard to say. Exactly what is agitating the president so much about wind turbines but it does seem to fit a pattern in which the president is not very much a fan of Energy efficient technology everything from wind energy to solar panels to low flow toilets. He's talked about all of those things in a negative light and he's not a big believer in climate change and trying to reduce carbon emissions. and He seems to see the negative side of all of these different things adminstration just put forward a new rule allowing for the energy burning light lightbulbs to stay on the market instead of being phased out and replaced with new more energy efficient light bulbs. Yeah the trump administration says these rollbacks are about safety and Consumer Sumer Choice. You've done a lot of reporting on this Most of the time though it appears to be that it's the president citing his personal opinion. But what arguments have they given even to this. I mean I've heard him speak. He was speaking in Michigan where he was saying that. Women are complaining That they have to run their dishwashers multiple times talking about those energy efficient products. And really what it sounds like. Is he saying that. These energy efficient products aren't as good as the field products that we used to use. That's exactly right in east facing a lot of this on personal experiences set. You know. He's heard toilets flush ten or fifteen times. Because of low flush technology not that saves energy saves water. His administration is studying some of these issues. In some cases. They're saying that consumers should have the ability to choose if they want to use more more energy efficient products or if they wanNA use products that are more old-fashioned may use up more energy but for whatever reason the consumer may want those products we do see as administration trying to sort of put a more professional spin on the president's own personal opinions about these technologies and it is in line with a a lot of conservative ideology that the government shouldn't tell people what they should by what they shouldn't by Democrats on the other hand say that in order to save the planet we need to all the in line with protecting the planet from greenhouse gases and reducing inefficient technologies. That have been used in the past and replacing them with more efficient technologies analogy that are being brought online now also earlier this year. The President Revoked California's authority to set vehicle emission standards above federal standards and in. What was the logic behind that waltz? One of the multiple areas where the president just has wanted to roll back some of the standards that have been put in place by I. President Obama and the Obama Administration the trump administration says that those standards are too restrictive that they don't allow consumers to have enough choice that they're going to increase the cost the cars and make it harder for people to afford vehicles. That could be safer if they were more affordable. It doesn't seem like the car. Companies want it because of restricted this but but because the trump administration is pushing very hard to repeal as many of the environmental regulations that were put in place by the Obama Administration. They are gonNA push forward when when you look at all of these regulation rollbacks in the President's science skepticism what do you see as the long term impacts. It's a it's a big impact in terms of the legitimacy of this overall effort to reduce carbon emissions if the president of the United States is saying this is not a big deal and it makes it much harder to have a global response response to have people everyday people taking actions of the local level in in their individual lives to conserve energy. There is a long term impact in sort of filters through the economy with people making decisions that may be less energy efficient in part because they have not heard from the president. This is something that they need to focus on. That's blue only Rooney PA White House reporter for The Washington Post. Thank you so much for taking the time thank you now go to Tulsa Oklahoma where scientists say. There's evidence that two sites could be mass graves. Many there have long suspected that victims of the brutal race massacre of nineteen twenty. One were buried there after a wealthy African American community. Black Wall Street was burned to the ground because rumors spread that a black man stepped on white woman's foot at least three hundred African. The Americans were killed incomes in an instant were wipe out the massacres portrayed in the HBO series the watchman. It is painful to watch but now news of possible mass graves Phil Armstrong is project director at the Tulsa. Race Massacre Centennial Commission. Which in two thousand twenty one will mark one hundred years since the massacre and Phil I how are people there reacting to the story portrayed on HBO? Well it's actually has been a breath of fresh air in that citizens of Tulsa and more specifically North Tulsa. They've been telling this story. And the history of this has been an some parts well known and then in many parts unknown or doubted you you tell us a story and no names please. But about a white man that you met Bowling who was skeptical. Yes And he actually became. It came on the ears. I should say very good friend. And when he saw the news reports of the city moving forward award with the Tulsa Mass Graves investigation. He came up to me one evening. It's it you know. How dare you all disturbed these graves? How dare you go back into his history? And what's funny is I'm standing there thinking I'm not the one that's actually digging the graves or an even now. No one is saying that that is what's going to be done um it just. We need to investigate this so I listened to him then said can I ask you a question and he said yes and I said what if your grandmother or your grandfather was murdered and all you know is at some terrible incident happened and your grandfather. Your grandmother left the House to go help others and they never came back and in one day ninety eight years later someone comes along and says hey I think I know where your grandfather's buried. I sit would that not be a sense of relief for you your family and he looked at me and you can actually Kinda see tears in his eyes. Like no one's has never said that like that and he said I didn't think about it in that way and and now he comes up to me and say did they find the bodies and it's amazing when you put it in a different perspective and just make it personal. How would you feel if this was your family? It really changes people's People's opinions. Well couple things universal. You said. We're not sure what we're going. What's going to happen here if this is determined through this forensic research to actually be the mass graves that many African Americans have long thought they are will the bodies being soon? That's the in the room is what's going to happen. We have evidence evidence that there's enough anomalies in the soil to move further into investigation to determine if there are bodies here so the next stamp is you doing. DNA evidence allowing the State Examiners Office to come in to see how they're going to determine if the bodies that are. There are of this era of African Americans or their native Americans. There's a lot still yet to be determined but to to be able to be at this point and say there something there to be further investigated. It was just a big relief of for many in the community. Validating will end to might. I'd say why. Why did it take this long while we heard near the opinion of a a white citizen who just felt no need and we also heard from Brenda Alford who I know you know? She's on the commission. Her grandparents and great uncle lost a business in the massacre and she said that you know blacks did not talk about this for you. You know it was sort of first of all. They had to survive in this town where there had been a massacre but she remembers when they drove by the oaklawn cemetery again where these mass graves leaves are believed to be the adults in the car would always say the same thing the conversation would be quote unquote. You know. They're still over there as we passed past that cemetery and every body in the car would agree yes. They knew that they were still over there. And I was like I said a small child. I didn't understand Dan what they were talking about. But of course now I do. Is that a part of this. Fill that for decades. The people who lived through this did not want to speak of it. Yes and the people that I have had the privilege of sitting and having conversation with Even when we look look at the FA gates collection. I'm not sure where where then. But she was a woman and reviewed many of the fibers And to hear their stories that this was. It's you know trauma. This is just not something that people really wanted to talk about and from from the white citizens. It's something that you know we've got to move beyond. This was an embarrassing thing. That happened our city. That was one view the other side of the was it. Fear fear retribution fear from the community even now people who are descendants. It's hard to talk about but it's also a lifting a you know I get to honor my ancestors I get to honor those. ooh before me that you know I get to tell their story. And it's my responsibility to tell the world this happened and this happened to my family. It's feel Armstrong project director at the Tulsa. Race Massacre Centennial. Commission and Phil we will follow this story Wherever it takes us next thank you so much? Thank you I Robin Young thanking You for listening to the here and now podcast and inviting you to contribute to support it at donate dot. NPR MPR DOT org slash. Now for all the reasons that you listen here now helps you make sense of the world and when you donate to your NPR station. You're supporting the journalism. Eliza that brings context and perspective to the news and conversations with people making a difference in the arts music and culture so please make a donation to your NPR station today and that investment will come right back to your ears. Just go to donate dot. NPR DOT ORG slash now we're building NPR. Dr and its member stations. Thanks to you now. Let's get back to the news okay. Twenty nineteen is coming to a close. And we've been asking ourselves what. What are the songs that define this decade? Maybe you're thinking something from Taylor Swift. Maybe beyond say may even drake while Gary Trust a billboard has the the answers he's director of charts there and Gary. Let's go down the list without further ADO. Let's start with the fifth most popular song of the decade. This is girls like you by Maroon. Five featuring Cardi B. Dot is going the meat is Bill Gates Enough Party party the best always limited red light bread. I don't play when it comes to my heart. Let's get it though. I don't want to carry Kennedy right here cut endured so gary. What would you say about this song that made it so popular aside from the fact that it's Cardi B. Maroon and five? Yeah that's a big part of bringing different genres together and that was a big thing. We saw this decade. You'd see pox appearing with rapper. So Maroon Five Live. I think maybe you tend to forget how long they've been around at this point. They've been having since two thousand three two thousand four. So they're they're adaptability. Their longevity is really really impressive for them Cardi obviously has come along and become a so bigger self so pairing that worked perfectly at its heart. It's a great. Oh Yeah let's get to number four. This is closer by the chain. Smokers featuring palsy topped the charts in two thousand sixteen renewed the only go so him no. You can't afford by that on his show the she's GonNa love them as when we talk. Yeah Okay Kerry. This feels like to me. This song. High almost describe it his wallpaper because it was everywhere in the stores. Every time I got in a car turn on the radio. What's interesting too? Is that the video features couple driving having a range rover in Malibu. The guy's taking pictures of the girl in a field of flowers It really liked the feels like the song may be couldn't have been born without instagram. The chain smokers started with that Song Selfie couple years before that. Yeah I think people maybe thought okay if you have a song called Selfie it's it's a little gimmicky it's it's fun on its novelty But we're not sure if you'RE GONNA come back with other hits and then they did. Don't let me down and then closer. They wound up in the hot one. Hundred's top ten for over over a year straight. They set the record for the longest run having at least one side in the top ten. So that's that's all time history of the chart so that's up successful Dave men and they introduced Halsey Pretty much on a mainstream level. We all know how big she's become sense. Yeah yes she definitely is having her moment right now. Let's go to number three three on the billboard hot one hundred for the decade. This is shape of you by F.. Share which peaked just recently in two thousand seventeen. The Club is best placed defunding where me and my friends set the table label do conversation with just me and trust them and the insurance for somebody like me coming down all all the man the boy. Let's talk to me on the hello might be my lead over the shape of electro-magnetic August. Okay we're dancing in the studio. Let's talk you know. Sharing actually said it had originally written the song for Yana before someone convinced him to keep it for himself. Do you hear that inspiration in this song. Yeah I can. I can hear it's It's really that What's been called ATROP- house sound a little? Little bit of a tropical apopka combination that dancehall yen and Justin Bieber kind of I really brought that to the forefront and pop music with what do you mean and then we've heard so many other hits have that Maroon five had don't WanNa know so that sound really took over the mid part of the decade d'esposito obviously so that was just these sound and Ed Sheeran Remember he started just pretty much him and his guitar with the team for him to so transform into being just a all around Popstar with this type of song really shows how quickly he's really change a sound and just become so huge. Something something else really interesting about this Song Air Chair and actually gave the writers of TLC's hit no scrubs credit because musically. There were lots of similarities. Here they are side by side. Love boy boy. I guess I mean it's funny. TLC members chilly said that she can't hear it at all. Do you hear it. I think there are some similarities. It it always gets interesting in terms of did the writer here when they were writing it is more more that once it goes out into the world. These things wind up the courts South of me That's where these guys decided. Yeah it's probably a preemptive strike in many ways to say we're going to give you credit here so we don't have to deal with this later. You've seen that happen right. That's starting to be more of this decade so I think people are realizing that. Yeah that's probably a more costly. We don't in the beginning okay. Let's go to number two. According to billboard. This is the party rock anthem by L. M. F. A. O. Featuring Train Lauren Bennett and goon by far the earliest song on this list. Let's go back to two thousand eleven with this one. The report got it. Shake that reduce chauffeur. Okay Gary Something funny I actually did did like a mock video of the song. This is so long ago but I can't believe it's been a decade. Yeah this song I think sounds a a little bit like there was a little bit further before some of these other songs. We've heard this was. This was the sound of Pop Music Back in two thousand ten a lot of lot of party sites. A lot of clubs sounds awesome. I think maybe that says something about where we are culturally. Now pop music little more beautiful slower it's were public discourses users sport to Biden Than it was back then back then they were it was a DJ. Got Us Fallin' in love songs like this that we're just about fun and act like Ella Bail. Sometimes it doesn't have to be an act that gives you a ten twenty hits over their career sometimes One or two hits that good. That's good enough for pets. Are you you calling them. A one hit wonder they were at least to wonder then. Another number one hit I read after the okay so without further ado the number one most popular Buehler Song of the decade was uptown. Fuck by Bark Rawson and Bruno Mars peaking in two thousand fifteen it is Michelle pfeiffer out by this but impose girls them good straight. Masterpieces piloted. I live in the city got stuck so was same. Wrong gotTa Kisa so pretty the Ritz who John Carroll says Hallelujah up up cell phone don't give it to you believe okay okay. The video for this song has been viewed nearly four billion times on you to how did a town font become v. song of the decade so the chart wise fourteen weeks number one it was on the charts route. Two Thousand Fifteen just to always pretty much high in the chart throughout the year so that that longevity on the chart is this The math of how it got to number one but sonically yes sometimes. It's not the newest sound. Sometimes it's let's go back to the classics and the Sun just brings back seventies eighties funk. There's a lot of earth wind and fire type. Sounds and they're They just updated it for a new audience and it just it just totally worked at Broughton Bruno Mars more into the world and he'd been before we saw that with the twenty four karat magic album right after that It'll be interesting to see where he goes next. It's been over three years since his his last album so he's poised to to continuous success. Yeah well here's looking twenty twenty and beyond that's scary. Trust senior director of charts. It's at billboard taking us through the top five hit songs of the decade. Thank you so much Gary. Thank you so much. Libraries have become a lifeline for millions of people to connect to the Internet and now Democratic Credit Congresswoman Grace. Ming of New York wants libraries to be the place where folks can also check out mobile hotspots giving them the ability to get connected wherever they are representative is proposing a new bill to fund this effort and she joins us now representative Ming. Welcome to your now. Thank you for having me. Well thank you for being here so so your bill is tailored specifically to help young people gain access to these mobile hotspots. Why is that important while we many of us you have heard about this problem called the homework gap and this affects about twelve million? US school aged kids This this is something that would not require any sort of new technology but would make mobile hotspots more available where students would be able to do their homework. And Research Right from the comfort of their own home versus having to go to a library or another a location twelve million school age kids under connected. This is something that we probably don't think about but more and more schools are relying on technology for homework for studying. How common have you found it in your communities? Well I have to school age. Children ages fifth fifth grade and seventh grade. They don't utilize their physical textbooks much at all. In fact most of their homework and exams dams are all processed online about seven in ten teachers across America assign homework that requires broadband access but about one third of the households in America. Don't have it so I see it in my own community and in my own children's schools every day. Hey you want to create a hundred million dollar grant program for these hotspots. How do you measure success for this well broadband access Says and the access to the Internet is really a human rights. We should be able to allow our students. Our children oftentimes who are literally you just trying to do their homework to be able to do this at home. They shouldn't have to go to Out to a library or you've heard many stories where they're going into a McDonalds or sitting in the parking lot of somewhere which who has you know broadband access and they should be able to borrow these Hot spots it's to help them access and make sure that they have equal opportunity to education. No matter where they are from in this country three. What else do you think could be done to improve Internet access for everyone no matter where they are? Yeah well. This is an issue that affects all Americans across across the spectrum. Whether you're in a rural area whether you are in an urban area We need to make sure that there are safe spaces. There actually is part of my bill. Five percent set aside for federally recognized Indian tribes The US territories and Washington DC as well okay Library Associations have been supporting this bill and you know we hope that it will get marked up and become reality for so many students across the country. Grace Ming is democratic congresswoman from New York representative main. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. One of our favorite holiday. Traditions is revisiting. Our Two thousand fifteen story about Boston's is Christmas in the city. The biggest bash for homeless kids in the world run actual parties will buzz to this. And we'll get out of here so sad. That's J Kennedy meeting with with volunteers. Jake and his wife sparky founded this event out of their Kennedy Brothers Physical Therapy Clinic. So it started in nineteen eighty-nine oldest choose maybe four years old to to well anyways you got too many presents because she had no idea like you know what Christmas meant and that's how it started. We wanted to show her. You know the other side of life the first year they hosted a couple hundred kids in two thousand fifteen over four thousand thousands of volunteers. Turn the Boston Austin Convention Center into a winter wound. The Kennedy Daughter Elise is now a piece worker for the UN in South Sudan. Another son by the way Dean as the quarterback coach for the Florida gators. A third chip started a second Christmas in the city of New York. Back in two thousand fifteen as the curtain rose after dinner to reveal a winter wonderland complete with carnival rides. We found jake in tears. You get emotional. I do I get every year I get emotional. Just you don't understand people that have to wait in line that no promises a captain happening on with the next meal is coming from what it means to be treated like princes and princesses is just. I mean it's I wouldn't miss it. I would miss abby but we are not rerunning our story this year. Oh Christmas Christmas and the city is chugging along. We'll tell you how you can still support this great organization but Agile here when you listen to Jake just last week showing me a video of his sons New York event. It's Jake that now. I need some help but grace was in the city Newark Newark New York City. Jay Kennedy. Who's healed so many broken bodies and souls has been diagnosed with? LS The insidious disease that leave the mind intact but ravages the the body Jake's father died of LS. So did Jake's younger brother they call them squirrel another brother they call rat also now has the disease last week. We sat down with Jake and sparky and their fourth child sack or tried to sparky kept slipping slide onto your lap. We have to love right a hate people fussing over me but I I wanted to say I'm the lucky manweb. Also very optimistic about a cure. Optimism Jake Because this is time like no no on the time in research and Dr Brown Zach they are so oh optimistic. That's right Zach. Kennedy is a post doctoral researcher with Dr Robert Brown of Umass Medical School in Worcester Massachusetts. One of the leading a LS researchers in the world in their lab. I asked Bob Brown. I his reaction to the news that his researchers dead has ls a staggering for starters it's also incredibly motivating. Their approach is now for treating familial disease are very powerful in terms of inactivating in the genes that causes to run in families. So there's more hope for familial alison there's ever been. What's also exciting? Is that these lessons from genetic forms also apply to the other ninety percent which are not familiar and there are clinical trials. There are clinical trials for this specific gene mutation. So we'll try and get my father. And and to whatever's the Best Zach. Did you go into this work because of your family history. Yes yes yes. I fell in love with him. It must take as some of the helplessness. It feels very good to be helpful. It's very motivating to know that your work will go into helping your family. For sure there are ups and downs. It gets heavy But you know it's it's nothing good comes easy I I am very proud and I could never imagine it would lose loses math book five five five times in a day. You still lose his math. Look five times in a day grades I. I'm sure you're glad that's still an absent minded professor for sure. Uh sparky Burkey of. I'm sure there's lots of laughs and lots of tears when it started. Did you immediately think this is what it is I did. Jake was tested for the gene in about five years ago. October eleventh is when it was confirmed that it was the ails iphone. My speech going downhill would do you think I'm sees. That was a positive test for lime. It gave us a little bit of three weeks of being excited that it was lying but tonight I mean a lot of people would just crawl and a quarter what it is so overwhelming. And I'm just so proud of my mom and how she's been able to handle the doctor's appointments the insurance. I don't know how she does it. I'm putting one foot in front of the other is how I'm doing it right now. It feels like there's an injustice to it. Do you feel sparky well. He's always been Kinda Superman right. He's been a hero to a lot of people. You just wonder how this can happen to someone like that but then Jake I was thinking too you seem to be the embodiment of there but for the grace of God geico i. You always seem to have that attitude like that could be me. Because of Christmas in the city I feel showing adjust. This society is so I I think other people walk far worse off than I am right. We talked about this before you were diagnosed. If I died tomorrow I have the most blessed life ever. And Life's not fair and so you just have to count your blessings and and take it day by day this. I think you'd agree. I just we had such a blessed life and it's very easy to forget that easy to get angry. You know everyone has to deal with this. So is it a blessing thing or a terrible burn and that you have watched this disease before Jake Your Dad and your brother or I I can go on total blessing. Because I'll just have to interrupt and say sparky just looked at deck and did a circle around her career with her finger. The the universal signal of crazy man. I'm I'm sixty five so can come from a life. I'm Jim Thome lessing. Each kid is brought strengthen our lives they're seeing never are so. Oh great what are you. What do you want people to know? You have so many friends. What do you want people to know I want? I want people to reach out and Change Society for Obama Camera. So many families Socially and economically disparage. And I want I want and where we want research money right and we want to be able to find a cure so we talked about testing so I know this is a hard could tested. And I'm negative and that I conceive chuck extent. We had our baby so so I found out I was negative that we we conceive her child the next day. It's the most wonderful blessing but it's hard I think it's your saplings. Use Thinking of what your three siblings went fine and the generation before you any thoughts on how much we hate this disease. It's awful it's awful. Aw for everyone. It's even awful for you. WHO's been spared? Yeah I'm sure you're thrilled. It was We we just talked to a girl. Ore Dallas I text right a LS Sucks and she responding LS sexual much so and yet I either your your spirit and everything I just thank you so much. Remain positive and we're just going to be happy and enjoy the holidays that we have with each other her. I think that's what we're GONNA do because we're really blessed to have each other so we have of our marching orders hugged loved ones. And maybe help both Dr Brown and Zak's research and Jake whose friends have convinced him. It is his turn to be fussed over will link to his new website. Jay Kennedy Ails Fund at here. Now Dot Org all female teams of Tech Company founders raised a record three point three billion dollars from venture capitalists this year according to new data out this month from the market research firm. PITCHBOOK each book. That's still a small share of the hundreds of billions of dollars. VC's invested overall. But it's a step up from last year joining us now for more on this Cara Swisher editor at large at recode. Hey Care Hi how you doing I am well okay. So put this in perspective. Three point three billion dollars That's that's still less than three percent of all the capital invested in US startups this year. How significant is this uptick? Well it's an uptick right. It's still small and it's sort of a drop in the bucket compared to what male the raise and also in terms of numbers. It's still very small. I think it's like eight percent of VC's at this point and it still remains very similar to what's what's happening in the regular tech industry In terms of leadership positions would encouraging is. There's a lot of women own solar shops where they are the head of the of the of the firms rather than being a partner there type of companies. Are we talking about. Oh all kinds. I mean there's people that are sort of doing follow on rounds there's people that are doing seed rounds or people that are doing doing a rounds. Nobody's there's only one that's doing sort of the later stage fighting giant checks for fifty two hundred million dollars essentially but they're all over the all over the place in lots of areas. Let's talk a little bit more about this report. It also look at how much money mixed gender teams have raised this year. That number is more than then seventeen billion dollars or about eleven percent of the total. These numbers are but why are female lead companies getting such a small share of the money overall Paul invested well because because the venture firms are run by men. And so they're ten. They tend to pattern match on themselves or previous Investments and so the issue is not so much. If there's good ideas out there I mean because it can't be won. Only one class of people have great ideas that they have more ease to raise money and to have a lot more support even still. There's so much research out there. There was There was just a body of work this past year. That showed that there's lots of money that's being left on the table bowl by not investing. Can you talk a little bit about why I mean whether you're a man or woman It's still a good idea is a good idea. Yeah I know it's just I don't know I don't understand it. I mean study after study show. More diverse company is a better company more stable company more profitable company so you can't even appeal to their greed. which is really interesting? Which means they're making decisions that are not based in fact but basin bias obviously And you just have to have more perspective active or more people at the table all kinds of different people in order to start to you know. Pick up your head and look for more investments and I think that if you have women led firms firms or firms that by people call which remained very small. You're going to see a different kind of investing and it doesn't mean they have to women only have to invest in women or things like that. It's it's just that they have a bigger perspective and can see you know potentials what the CEO looks like that. Maybe others can't yeah axios found this year that women. I'm in account for fewer than ten percent of decision makers at VC firms. And as you said that's because they're dominated primarily by men are in that sector. Can you talk about the how limited partners play into all of this Those who fund. VC's if they know that they're leaving money on the table in the way of ideas by being less diverse do you think that they'd have have more incentive to push BC firms to To have more diversity it's not they don't know they just have to start getting practice in some. LP's are starting to do that. They want they want a broader range of investors that they want to put their money into the most important people that are critical our founders of companies where they try to. It's called all the cap gap which is the Cap Table Gap and they wanna have a cap table that has more reflection of diversity You know you're seeing that a lot of especially younger founders because sort of the the most recent founders certainly been so we're the CAP. The Cap table is is where the next money Silicon Valley. It's coming and so we need to have if you have of more diversity on you have more firms run by women. You're GONNA later downstream. See the effects of that. Yeah it it makes sense you make it sound also simple. Do you think that we'll see twenty twenty as we move forward Actually the implementation of some of what you're talking about well. I'm heartened by these firms and they have to be successful. I think that having these firms start that are separate and not say a woman as a VC or color of a big firm already run or established largely archly. Bhai White Man that you're gonNA find new firms you're gonNA find new successes and and that always is good lead. I hope two very good outcomes and that they can then create companies that then can fund other things right so I hope so because there's more firms starting brunt by women And what's really interesting is a lot of it. It was sort of set off by Melinda Gates who who started funding the putting money into fund managers of diverse firms. which you know you gotTa have these these major refunders put this money to work and see what happens and once their success? It'll take care of itself that's Care Swisher editor at large at recode. Thank you so much which thank you very much you're in now is a production of NPR in Wer association with the BBC World Service and and from all of us here at here now. Merry Christmas tomorrow Kwanza later this week. Happy Hanukkah happy holidays. Everyone I'm Robin Young. I'm Tanya mostly mostly. This is here now.

president Jake I United States Robin Young Tulsa Jay Kennedy Gary Trust NPR director VC Tanya Moseley New York City The Washington Post Phil Armstrong reporter NPR Obama Administration representative
Mr. X Gon' Give It To Ya

The Polygon Show

57:02 min | 2 years ago

Mr. X Gon' Give It To Ya

"Uh-huh. Hello and welcome to the folly gun show. Shooting over Skype. This just so you know, what's looking at the visual faces alike. Frank. Chelsea start a load and Ashley oh who's back. Welcome back. Thank you. Hi. So something concerning happened during your absence you reported that you tried orange vanilla coke. I did. I was shocked offended by its existence and disgusted, and I opened it and took a sip and actually Simone. It is not that bad. It's kind of good it kind of tastes like an orange cream cycle. But it has like a coke flavor, which you you would think would fight with each other. But they harmonize like a wonderful symphony. It's good where were you? And what were you doing when you found the orange vanilla coke? It was just like at a nearby deli. What sumo out there in the? Yeah. You're out there. And I didn't even know it existed actually until over the weekend. And I was very offended. But actually, it's good. So this is good that you've tried it Ashley because actually yesterday I happen to buy a bottle. Yeah. Chelsea and I tried it as well. What did you think? So I learned of its existence from friend of the show, former probably gone, Julia Alexsandr, and our friend also of the verge Andrew Marino, and I have a soda chat. And they have both told me about the orange vanilla coke and said, we should all try it. And then they went and just try to without me. So I guess Turay bought a bottle Scoffing over here. I was very why do I like this whole like the preamble? Preamble. So I bought a bottle very pointedly yesterday. I too thought it tasted about like creams ical. I didn't like it though. I thought it was too sweet. If you look at sixty five grams of sugar, and I could feel every like all has so much. Sure. Coke zero sugar, baby. Yeah. That's because it's you're a sugar. Yeah. Okay. I been took Allegra half finished bottle, and I liked it. Yeah. I I liked that it was like vanilla coke. And then it was like splash Amorin. Yes. Exactly. The orange wasn't overwhelming. And I thought it would be, but it was actually teast more like vanilla coke than an orange coke which thank God. Because the idea of just orange deliver courses me out. I will agree with that. Like, I was expecting it to taste way, more orangey. And I think exactly what you said. Like, they harmonize very, well, it still tasted like a coke. I think it was just like the after face for me was like fairy sweet like way more sweep them coke. Did you guys? Ever get to try vanilla coke with lime when it was Maho might neither. Sorry, not true. That's not true because it was coke with lime and vanilla coke and two separate flavor. I just had an accident brain accident. You're just sure they didn't. Combine those two I feel like vanilla coke combined with another flavor. One time vanilla cherry though. Because I think there's there's definitely diet village share cherry vanilla or filter God and all at so. Coke and coke vanilla zero. Which is order to put those words in and then just regular coke villa? Just normal coach. I miss Manila. Coke are like that. I also I loved coke with lime. I think coke with lime was like the perfect beverage. We why did they get rid of? I don't know didn't think it was that bad with. They did the diet coke with lime. Then that's not. I don't like diet coke as we've discussed. It's bad was the diet. Coke with lime one of the ones we tried that one time was that one of those. No, I think that predated those weird flavors. Yeah. Are this sale? I think so I see the weird flay Oleg spicy somewhere. Jerry Rice, cherries. Oh fight. Each sheri's. I was like one of those flavors had an annoying name. And that was the one I think they still sell coke with lime. I'm on the Wikipedia page right now. And I don't see a a stop date. Maybe it's just rare. It's it's a redder poke the drop rate is very low. When you go into your Bodega. Joe what I love it love it. I went to Disney World in the last five years as an adult, and there was like a coke like a whole coke place. And you can just try all the cokes from other countries. And also try all these different flavors like adding all the flavors. Oh, give those later. Yeah. But the other countries cokes were so oh, yeah. Other country cokes are always so good. So is like an expanded freestyle machine. It was basically an expanded free Freestone machine. They had little cups. You could trial of flavors expanded free style. Let's all so out of control Spanish freestyle. It sounds like a skiing varietal and a Winter Olympic. I like Emotiv as tricky like when I don't do any of you ever tried this. But when you try to eat all of the like the whole skill bag at once and it actually just vomit instead of like. I guess that was just. Agree. You can only have you can only combine to skill flavors at once. Oh, I try to eat so many skills. It was a mistake. But I only I was thirteen name flavor only or closest color match. If I am running out of skittles Simone. We will buy the orange coke orange vanilla coke. I'm gonna go out after we're done recording. This by my own goddamn, orange coke vanilla whatever arbiter, literally got it from the Dwayne Reed or whatever I by the office. I don't know where you were. I mean, obviously, some folks do you gotta talk about video games. Oh god. Yeah. No, finish your thought. Actually. No, no, no. I'm not gonna finish. I I think we should talk. Kim's the answer to do. I like is probably no. I don't like any. I mean, the question was criminals. Do you like orange, obviously? Goals. Oh, well, you probably like there was a curse though when I was a kid, and he cat who is named cream. Cicle would die young. What one who how many were they your cat like free? No, they weren't mine. Cats people's Toby, you had six cats named cream cycle, and they all had chicks cats groups, like final destination. I dunno. I had a lot of parakeets all in a row, and I kept naming them TASR, Tasmanian, devil and. We you would name different ones TASR. Yeah. It was like TASR one too. I mean TASR one died after three months, and then has to also, but you cold TASR to test. Same color. Oh, why TASR and not like I was grown. I was nine. A little old for I don't know Tasneem like acute name for a parakeet is acute name for it is a cute name for lart heat. Yeah. Thank wow. Speaking of Keith James yet. Poke him on the new Pok Mon starters for poke him on sword and poke him on she'll been revealed who would like to describe these creatures. Oh, actually, we could each do one. You're each gonna do one. Ashley, which one's your favorite. My favorite is Sabail Sabas describe SABA SABA. Liz, a watertight poke Amman. Okay. And his facial expression is the same as the surprise Pika. Chew meam. So that's and then like his body can become kind of clear in water. I didn't see that. That's horrifying intestines. Oh god. No. You know, what he doesn't? I don't think he has any Oregon's I think he just sort of lets the water circulate in his little body. So he's a lot or sack poke Amman. He's my God. He kinda had pole. Yeah. He looks like a tadpole, but he has limbs when he evolves. He's gonna get were gens. Oh god. I hope not maybe he'll grow them on the outside. Now. Oh, no already had. We're going outside the body with fucking GRA ninja and his stupid tongue scarf. Oh is that ninety in Oregon is the the Tom Izzo muscle. Right. Right gross muscle to wasn't upsetting choice. I love Grenada. I wish he'd put his tongue in his face like inside his mouth. Yeah. Allegra which one of the starters is your favorite score bunny. Wow. Bye. Leg right like score bunny. Wow. Thank you. Anyway, it's type start and it's funny. And it looks very proud, and it has a little thing on its face like right above its nose that looks like a band aid. What kind is it? I why crazy Allegra. I meant to ask you this. When I first saw it, and I saw all three and it just bothers me so much. I'm like what is it part of its body? Is it a bandages dry skin patch? I sort of think it's dried skin with isn't great. But maybe it'll have better. Poor strip. It does really look like it's like a bandage of some kind or strip. Yeah. But score bunny, the skin-care Pokemon mate. Maybe like or is it like a like a solar panel? It does kind of look like a solar sail? Beige, right. It's bauge. Alliterative? I saw score bunny. It's funny that you say the scoreboard is your favorite because I was like this polka my very mascot. He looks like sonic and Z which car by the same beige stripe on the bottom of his feet of all my boyfriend. Yeah. So I think it's part of its body has to be so yeah. The one thing I will say score bunny is he is like doing this kind of in the video he has his pose where he's putting his hands on his hips. And a lot of people think that suggests he might be fighting firefighting type in nobody wants that. What why because we have too many of those who was fire. As in Fernie, or whatever its name is for ape. That's horrible. I- topics Lucien a lot. Maybe what? They were really scratching the bottle. Okay. Inferno actually looks awesome. I hate his name. Turn ape. Wow. I did not know looks like thing firefighting one of those legendary. Sorry. Sorry. I just realized no. About that either. I just said God. So no one wants any racial stance. He's a fresh light firefighters aren't real. I thought I really liked score was also my favorite. But like I love the little fire coming from his speed of that was very cute touch as opposed to like all the other ones. I don't know feels different than aflame on his butt or whatever. So cute. Yeah. Fire. But I guess do you want me to describe groupie it falsely you Chelsea I'm sorry. If he does not your favorite, but you get who is objectively wonderful. I love group, actually. And I mean, most people don't on like the grass rebels. Yes. So those are. No one loves solvable. You know, Sor everybody. Okay. Groups. I saw somebody say that SABA looks like Pokemon on designed by performance of depression Twitter cheeses, with I don't know if I agree with, but it was a strong statement. And I appreciate the conciseness of it. So groupie looks like a cute little like type of monkey like he's like very little Scott giant is in a big orange knows in these cute little pointed ears, and then like kind of like top-knot with a leaf stick thing going on the top of his high like it. I really do. Very cute. Like, everything is very cute. Actually, I think I bet you the he's going to have the best looking like animal evolution line. I think I hope so also my favorite thing. Buck rookie is his little wave. He's waiting. He's very also he kind of looks timid to just like SABA does. He's like, hey, you should maybe maybe pick me. I'm gonna look more like babies than previous all pre all starters are kind of baby. Like, these ones are very round. They have very big is round head. They are incredibly cute scorpion. Looks the most like if you had to that's the one that's the oldest. And he's like, I'm the rascal. Go to the store by myself. I can buy my cokes. God it now. I have gore bunnies. Buying beer for the rest of the starters. He's the reason they evolve evolves them into teens. I think rookie is my favorite. And I know that I because other people dislike plant starters, I tend to gravitate towards them. Even though objectively the fire starters are always the coolest, but I'm not a basic pitch. So I don't go there. But I'm scared. What if you turned into like, a giant like frightening sort of? Yeah. Yeah. What was what it was the what is the X? Y plant starters name. Chessmen? Yeah. He is Evelyn's are. Oh, yeah. He gets really weird splayed. Yeah. Looks like a pile of walnuts. Stapled together. Okay. Cute. Aleutian. Oh, is it Blazek kin? That's the big muscular catman. No. That would be sitter who've all don't want. Incinerator or situation rookies. Evolve. I like incinerator in smash Blazek and his wrestler lease Akins, a little more. I don't I don't think I can continue this. I'm looking at blazer can now, and I also don't think I can describe Kim. So let's just move on. From that mistake say with like the grass starter who, you know. I also prefer fire starters. But for grass like Rowlett, very cute. I mean, his visions were pretty cool, actually. But I had the same kind of a predicament. Where what I forgot which game was I chose on. Oh, the pip up my favorite boy. Boy. And then his actions are ugly. They're very rarely. I did not like it. I didn't it was like in Poland or something to be all cool. And I was. What happened to up pips evolutionary line, though is the lesser of three evils in that game. So bad for those one with Chinchar and Turkic. Yeah. Everything was just horrible crapshoot. But like you can't get I mean, just pip was so perfect. I mean, I guess what we like spectating nothing better can come out of pip than just pip flip through king D today. But. But in print up I didn't really like that much. Yeah. Desperately trying to look at all of these right now. Now, I'm now I'm looking at Quillet in which is chest, penzo Aleutian. It does still look like some it looks kind of. It looks. What is his name tangle? It looks like a Pokemon stola tingle out. No, and the Pokemon doesn't fit in the Tina love it. I threw it. Oh, jeez. And dry is horrible. Yes. I don't like that at all. And then in Poland goes into print print print up is okay. And then pull eons horrible because he looks like king day-to-day just wonder how he can see or eat anything. Oh, wait. No here is kind of cool. It looks like actually. Tara there. Okay. Now, we're just looking at pictures. We've we've devolved. Guys, really quickly about getting back on topic. So you have our favorites of the starters. But I always wanted to know are you a sword? Or are you shield which version are you interested in you know, what the differences are? Yeah. I don't really know the differences. But I always know from the get-go, which I'm gonna get for very simple reason. I always get the one that's closer to read. She'll his red getting shield we closer to read the logo. So this is like a pinkish red logo like it's closer to Pokemon read the original but not like in terms of the game trust based. I have a feeling. I feel like this is going to be a thing where it's one is vastly outside the other. And it's like sword is going to sell a bazillion more copies shield. Yeah. Because it's like, okay. It's a sword versus shield. Yeah. You need a she'll this is like the same with Hartson. You have to pick the sword the shield of the sceptre. Yeah. Yep. I mean, whoever picks the shield I do. Exactly exactly why it should have been poke poke among gun damn. I can't even imagine he'll come on. I would love for all battles to be like you have a bazooka and your polka balls come out of it. So when you instead of throwing them, you'll just like shoot, your polka balls out a t-shirt gun. Oh my God. That would actually be super cool. You just knock the other the other Pokemon when fate because it got hit in the face of the poker. We have to give a shout out to surf thousand on Twitter who originally created the Pokemon gun logo. Which is the greatest thing ever. Well, actually did accidentally get printed in a newspaper. Due due diligence. Great job surf I found your rookie game poke him on gun. What if it was something that really close to a sword like Pokemon on sword and poke him on? dagger speier Mace spear Mace Halberg. Thanks, very unlike snorting stars crossbow rapier at before. Keep on going, man. You know, a lot of. Hey, gotta think that final fantasy upbringing Noah fuck ton of medieval weapons, I couldn't tell it. Like, it took me a long time to learn the difference between an SM G and like an automatic like anything like that. But I know all those sorts. What's cloud sword? Call on BUSTER sword. Oh, anyway. Cool. So are you guys excited for that? He put them on game. I don't know why my voice went so high there, let me take that one more time. Hey, are you guys excited for the new Pokemon game? Let the let the record show that Simone Lena door, Mike and camera and very. I you can't say that about me. Just because I haven't showered yet today. Wow. Okay. I got the feels in that trailer of like it was like, oh my God Pokemon looks like a real game. Now, like a three d adventure until that terrible guitar Acton. And then I was like well. Oh, yeah. Chelsea was. And she was like was so into it. But that music, it's horrible music is it's just like the whole over will deem, but it's very like nineties guitar. That missed the Chelsea says if you don't if you play polka Mon you're not a real gamer because spoke Amman's not a real game. Well, thank you. Thank you. I'm gonna get. And they say, hey at least three angry at mentions now. Thanks. I was going to say that I the the over world map stuck out to me. And it kind of reminded me a little bit of when you first start Cronin trigger. It was really kinda cool ruled map. But then when I was looking at the scenes where you know, you're in like the towns and whatnot. I don't know. I felt like those places felt a little bit anticlimactic to me compared to the rest of the map in the world that like looked so rich and interesting, and I don't know maybe just a couple of scenes I saw it just looked like a super generic like harvest moon town wasn't that excited for. But I I'm also aware that this is super early. Yeah. I feel like in context everything will piece together. Hopefully in a more interesting way. But I mean, I'm always hundred percent here for Pok Mon with him. I thirty seconds of trailers. So I haven't you'll feel about the X Y town. Remember when it switched to that kind of over the shoulder angle. Did you pay that city? Yeah. When you went to the main city. Yeah. That was annoying. It was weird. But also kind of like it was cool. Cool gimmick that got annoying to actually play through. Yeah. I I'm curious if they're gonna play with camera angles in this one, although they are pretty basic top down. And let's go, and I think it's probably very similar to that. Make most of what I've seen is just people wondering if the Pok Mon will follow you like they do in. Let's go. I don't think the Getty only critique that I have. Yeah. So huge setback word for all of gaming. Yeah. Mon can't follow you. So I haven't seen that. I mean, I don't think they've really wanted to show us too much of the polka on yet like even the older Pokemon in the trailer in the trailer. A trailer say like that say trailers, then I just said trailer, but I didn't notice any Pokemon falling year round. And I also didn't notice any wild poke them on the over world, which was also mazed. But I think that's because they didn't want to confirm any of the Pokemon. I hope that comes back because that was so good. I know my face. Britt moment still from playing. Let's go is like walking into a big field of rapid dash. And be like. Yeah, he's beautiful. Where's he writes? Oh my God. Oh, did I tell you about my I did tell you about my rapid ash that I love. But now I've made a song rapid a- sh-. It's about you're seeing now. Yeah, I it's not really a singing song. But it's it's when I'm writing on my rapid ash, and I'm trying to find more rapid ash. So I can get a catch combo. So as kind of go in circles in tall grass a lot. So it's a lot of like really rapidly going back and forth in the same direction. Almost like you're just jiggling joystick, and you go. Keep doing that. And then the less you make like a really big circle with your rapid. Ashley, you make a huge go around. But it, but in the first part, you just have to go left and right, really fast, really fun. When you said this wasn't a singing song, you were very. It's more of a beat. I think we can use this beat to do something. We can we may be expanded add some bells and whistles it's only for rapid ash. I can't use it with any other poke him on it for rubbing crunch wraps tummy, though, you could go. That's true. But like what if I veer off in one direction too hard and like hit him in the face or the pothole? Ooh, why would hit him in the butt hole. I don't wanna hit him in the just lose control of your hand baddies because like the last note is really extreme school. You don't oh you mean like make a circle on his tongue? Go on meeting because I thought you meant like the the hand veers off at a sharp forty five degrees. Go up. Oh. Oh. No, go straight to. But but whole you you will. Between the two were always wants me to look at his butthole. I don't know. He's a cat. That's still don't understand what the purpose of that. Is like is it so your human can check for something like what? Yeah. You watch. Yeah. He's proud of how clean it is. He can't look at it. He spends so much his head out of the box watching you. He's pooping you have the responsibility to look at his butthole ensure. Sure, I wish they told me that when I adopted him. They're like. Nobody ever tells new parents how hard it's going to be never. But I'm sorry to veer off topic with my fun rapid ash song. No. I think we're all sorry. This episode of the probably gone show is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring used to be hard multiple sites. Stacks of resumes, confusing review process, but today, hiring can be easy. 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You didn't expect new spell that one did you, but I did ZipRecruiter dot com slash polygon. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Thank you so much dip recruiter for sponsoring this episode of the polygon show. This episode of the polygon show is also brought to you by Wim. One of the most important things that we do for our health, everyday brushing our teeth, and yet most of us don't do it properly, despite the fact that we've been doing this. We were we bad. Well, quip is here to change that for you. It's the better electric toothbrush created by dentists and zainur 's in union for the first time in history, and it makes brushing your teeth more simple. More enjoyable. Especial because well, it has this into sonic vibrations. 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I know this from going to the dentist having them. Tell me that I don't clean evenly. But I feel I feel you know, you start thinking about something in the new just keep brushing side your mouth or you get really focused on like one particular surface of teeth. And then everything else is just covered them plaque and discussing so don't do that quip is great. They're also backed by over twenty thousand dental professionals quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash Polly gone right now, you'll get your first refill pack for free with equip electric toothbrush. That is your first refill pack free at G E T Q U, IP dot com slash colleague on. Thank you so much for sponsoring this episode of the polygon show. Vision. Let's talk about resident evil to now ally GRA has begun playing it making me the only person on this show who has yet to play resident evil two and I won't but on Twitter this week. I think we all did see somebody maatted the game. So that Mr. X turned into Thomas the tank engine, and I saw version where he is Thomas the tank engine, Mr. X being for those of you who are unfamiliar with him. This very scary guy who sees you. And then just follows you and will follow you forever and ever. And if he catches up the hill grabby of three on the ground punch your face, but he's an invincible kindly. Yeah. Just stocking. After you had at a walking pace, we let's terrified. It's so scary. Because when I first saw him I and I was running away from uniform lot is obvious and enemies, you can just sort of run away. And I heard him like following me. And then when I went through a room who just be safe. You're I swear to God I heard like the room door, and I was like. I literally like I'm not used to doing that. Or like climbing up ladders to fall, you really. And when we were playing we went up the ladder to go to another room. And then we look behind us real quick, and he was climbing, Mr.. Yeah, he was climbing up after really I climbed up the ladder. And I was like, oh, he won't get me up here to be fair. I kept running until I got to the main hall so recently decided to look behind us scary. Yeah. Like steak. Yeah. I mean, and so really scares me is like his body proportioned. Yeah. Because thankfully, I haven't like really gone like a direct contact with him yet. So, thankfully, you love SpongeBob squarepants, but you don't like Mr. adults perfects. This a comparison. Spongebob is basically just Mr. axes body except his body is also his face, but he's so small. But if he were big he wouldn't be pop so nice. Oh my God. Actually, what if they did a SpongeBob mod on mister x that would actually all my someone someone please do that. I just don't like. So he has a very square head. I keep kicking him. Sorry, Chelsea is very square head and very square shoulders. But it looks like he is like a pretty narrow waist relative to that. I did not have time to look at because I personally saw him once and never looked back. Whereas you just would turn around I guess and study his body proportion look long looks outfit. I was like what are you wearing? What why do you have these nice pants? The seems like not really how make clothes that fit. Mr X. I was wondering the same question. Chelsea do you think that the scientists are someone like design the clothes for him? Did he go to a big and tall? Mr. x big until store. Maybe Taylor that also scares me. But how is he not gonna just mall the Taylor right away? Like, I'm very maybe he did maybe stole the close close beat the for everyone that I'm dropping in the polygon show slack room. You don't have to look at it. Now, I can describe it. Oh, it's nude photo of Mr. ax, you or bad. We're a sin. I'm just trying to explain the body shape. That's happening here. Okay. Well, see this ever again. I feel horrible to see it. Just looks like Thanos naked. Let's it's. Right in the the bras zone. He's flip flopping. I think that Thanos is bigger than Mr. X. I think so. Yeah. Definitely. So he also, okay, Mr. X has very very broad square shoulders, and it looks like his arms are kinda short his arms are kinda short in his his point. I don't know what it is called when you work out, and you have a very nice tapered waste, but he's got that. Yes. Got thick size. Yeah. Very thick thighs. I'm envious. But also, I think that fuels my fear looks great. I think he just needs to moisture is. Oh god. Very but with the Thomas the tank engine, mud. So I saw the clip Simone shared with me clip. It had a wonderful song playing over it. But then I saw another clip that did not have the music with it. And it was longer. It was like an extended clip and. It's scary with all the music. And also, you know, there was one we're like whoever was playing Leon. I guess like shot him. And then he like caught on fire. But as Thomas the tank engine is burning he's still coming towards you like chugging along slowly. But surely, and I'm pretty sure he like will anger the two at you twice e tunes made it really threatening. That's a thing about that long like clip with the no music, so you can hear him going. Yeah. Chewed that is like all he's in the next room and the door is closed like you can hear it gradually getting louder and louder and louder as he comes closer. And it is horrifying this is. So this is honestly one of the most impressive. Mas. Because I thought of every aspect of this fucking. Yep. Situations. So good and also. Yeah, it is very very very very scary. Yeah. I I mean, I'm scared of Mr. x, but I don't think I would be able to play with that mod. No. It's scary. GM at Exxon was playing over the X going gives you think Chelsea what do you think? I don't know. I just wanted to clear. Would anybody like to enlighten Chelsea? Know, they give it to you X give it to you just had to make sure could have been diem song could have been saying Rudolph the red nosed reindeer extra up in here up in here up in here. God bless you gonna train. Chelsea you beat the game. Right. I beat Leon section. Not clears Mr. Xs in Clair's to right. I assume or I think I pretty sure okay. God. I just kind of don't want to deal with. No, he's absolutely Clair's. And you keep playing no once and I was like I don't want to deal with this man at the end of the game. I can't play this. And then once I got to the part with the ceiling crawling like frequent liquors. I can't do that liquors. Yeah. They're really scary. Very very they're like naked inside Ousama as that stick to the ceiling, and they're like really fast, and they're very hard to kill very they get they'll take many bullets, and they have a tongue that can just do like half your life damage, and because the ceiling you're not necessarily like rain to look up there. So then maybe you accidentally like move the camera up a little bit. Like, oh, there is something about me. Well, God, he's a really bad. Yeah. Them perfectly inside as ambi- big tongues, Expos brains. Well, otherwise, like if you don't see them up there. Sometimes they're dropped from the ceiling, which will also go the shit out of me, or they'll just be behind me or like, I'll just look to the side. Oh, hello. Yeah. There's a couple instances that during the playthrough where there were two at once. Oh, wait like are. They're supposed to be two in that segment. Yeah. I think they that's like a couple rooms they could be separated, but they weren't. I don't wanna play any. My hands are getting sweaty or so strong. No, I'm so scared of mister x he lifted that helicopter was one hand. But like, Mr. Xs. It'll be okay, you've nothing actually racer. I did. Elway. True. That's true. I was trying to be like it'll be okay without spoiling. This Moore minds me very much of when I tried when I was too scared for a long time to watch the Babo Duke because I can't do horror movies. And then I only got the courage to watch it after he became a gay icon. So like what I finally did see him. I wasn't scared because I was like we'll look at him. He's Puta full. Just he wants to be there. He walked be house there. So maybe it'll be the same thing with Mr. experts like he's a sex symbol. I can't be afraid. Yeah. Now that you've seen him naked. You know, there's nothing to be frayed of. I'm actually still scared of him naked. I really don't like that. If we could just recap the music too, good sake ways. Now, I have two of them K. Speaking of things that are naked and also games that Ashley is playing. Wow. Oh. Oh. Right. Not naked gather. We're lining them up for me. You're right. They're wearing clothes in close. Yes. Chelsea also play generalize nation of ninety percent of gamers. Yes. Yes. Oh, debtor life sex that is out now. Correct. Yes. How was it? How is it? Plead ton of fighting games. And I was actually kind of hesitant to play. Because I was like I'm not I'm not good at these. And I don't think anyway, it is very fun. There are a couple of strange things like the way they have formatted their story mode is. Ed, but I was just playing arcada 's playing around a couple of favorite characters, and in addition because Mike McGuire has that that Hori like fight stick pad seeing that was very very very useful. Because I think playing on the controller on the PS four controller. I dunno. I thought that I would be okay with many fighting games, if you just kinda button mash, which is sort of the case, but eight so complicated. I think it's very intimidating when you look at the move list, and I've tried not to because it's just like hundreds and hundreds of things, but you can toggle brisk physics on and off I have tried it with both it is comical with them on. Because you're like, I don't know how they don't if breast physics on first of all there should be many nip slips there should be popping out. Janet Jackson would not be happy. And so I was. Playing this. And I have a couple of favorite characters. I do like this game a lot. I think it's very entertaining. There are some ninja girls there that are easing. And who I love very much. But it it's a really intense game. Like, there's environmental damage you can have if like somebody throws you into like someone will fall down a cliff and keep like bouncing and rolling off until they get to the bottom where there's another fight stage. And they take all that von damage, but like the animation of them rolling off the cliff is like the. You're not talking. Please talk about the best part of the environmental stages, which now you saw the pterodactyl. Oh, my God the pterodactyl which didn't even expect. I'm finding this lady fighting Christie, very tall. Very buff with cool short, silver hair. I throw her against what looks like a wall. It's not a wall. It's a pterodactyl egg and it cracks open and pterodactyl flies up and we'll pick her up and throw her across. Wow. Oh, that's nuts. Pretty cool. I have a question. So you mentioned there's a story mode. We sounds it's I think it's endearing that you even bothered with first second in a game like this endearing why like, but what does does that explain why there's like a pterodactyl? What is the stone even in this game? Well, I didn't even bother with the story. I looked at. So you can look at this. I looked at like what my quarter at already unlocked, and the thing is is that it tries to do this multi time line thing. So there are like different rows and then different like little scenes in them. And not all of them are like fighting sequences, some of them are just like cut scenes, and there are like a thousand of them, and you cannot decipher a particular order, it's very complicated and very scary. And that's why touched of just because it was like the most out of control you I've ever just been like who designed this. I'm sorry. But it's just not great. Okay. But everything. Else was pretty cool. Okay. So you just cut to the chase for the good stuff. I was great. Yeah. It's a I I'd never really played a debtor alive despite liking fighting games. So actually with Mike as well when he was doing his review in the office. And so he taught me how to play it's very simple to pick up, and it's really fun because all the matches fast so stuff just happens. You're like, well if I lost. I'm I try again, it's really quick. So it's like Arcadi, right? It's very Arcadian. It's also to point five to sidestep around each other. Yeah. So it's cool. The most ridiculous stuff along with what you were talking about with breast because you can also make the character, sweat, which is ridiculous. Like how my John want? The you can just turn on sweat weight. But also some it's not a slider is a just an honor off but on or off here. Slider. People are just standing there. You're not moving for a while. But they're sweating. They I mean, they got really sweaty. And then also sometimes they're tops became more transparent. Oh, weird thing. So if you like do say like some massive combo, and like a lot of damage to your opponent or to you like, especially with the women all notice that like so part of their shirt or that our costumer whatever will like rip off. But it's not like a like, oh, I, you know, like buff guys like bullet their muscles will rip through the shirt. But this is like it's almost like a completely circular like whole. Yeah. And it's almost like did somebody put a fucking narrow to- Russ sang gun on tiny. 'cause it's like the shape of a perfect circle. And you can just see their belly button. And I'm like how how in what way did you get kicked so hard that you got a perfect circle to be cut out of your like elaborate cost you. Well, when I when I play with Mike kicked his character, so hard and his character was wearing like a pleasure red jacket, and like a tank top underneath and his tank top just disappeared. Wait was his Jack Jack it was still on. And then take was gone, and it was just like his ripta's, Avs. And you're like, oh my God. It's it's really really strange. It's just strange gay. But it's fine. It's like those shirts that are made perfectly Taryn half. Yeah. It's only located in your abdominal area. Yeah. And also doesn't affect the thing you're wearing on top. Just disciplinary didn't even it's not like you saw the two half's fly away. It was just like, oh, it's gone. Now. Vaporize you kick him so hard that his shirt, vapor. I basically good have to say there is another time. I wasn't playing. I was watching Mike do some they're like some challenge modes where you know. It's like oh complete the challenger like execute two of these kinds of blocks and then do this. So he was doing a couple of them. And in some of them, you know, like you'll get these random like healing items that get tossed to you. I think like there's a mode. That's like you just go through as many people as possible, right or opponents rather, and I didn't know about this. So I look up and I just yelled like is that a cabbage? And yeah. Was a cabbage. And he said, yes, Ashley that's a cabbage. And I said why and he's like, oh, it's a healing item. And but the thing is like Chelsea said because you can kinda like sidestep a little bit. But it's still is three D. So when I tried it I just was screaming getting beaten up being like, I can't get the cabbage. I can't. And then I don't know other times they throw like a volleyball. And I I thought that the cabbage was not a healing item. I thought that it was because maybe Mike was doing so bad that someone through cab. Like vegetables to stay. Ios and cabbages like, no, that's a healing item. And put why I wish you could talk on and off people like getting increasingly angry with you on rave audience down punching YouTube fighting like in a boxing arena, and there were all these people around. And I was like are they upset at you? Why did you get a cabbage thrown at you? But I guess I have. Yeah. I have to ask Ashley is the actual fighting that are alive as intense as the volleyball that we made you play for the Olympics. Nothing will be as intense as our Olympics of all ball, dead or alive beach volleyball. Also fantastic. Just so it's just edged of your seat action. You never know who will never my my dead or alive. I think so because I was going through all of their costumes, and there are a lot of booby ladies, but they were there were kind of cool booby, ladies, though. And then also really I felt so wrong is there's this one girl I forgot her name. But she looks like she's like friggin thirteen years old. She has long pigtails I played. She was weird. Let the schoolgirl. And then I remember she was up against like this huge buff, dude. And it just felt it felt wrong. Beaten up this little girl. There was a guy who's wearing a leather matrix jacket. But no shirt, it's just like all the characters are. So honestly, I'm glad he wasn't wearing a shirt because it sounds like it would have just on torn off. Anyway, I know. That's sort of like an interesting like where will your shirt tear net. Adventure that you have in this game, which is pretty fun. And I haven't played like a ton. I think the first fighting game. I replayed was a soul blade. Yes. So ably. You remember that game it or so caliber locale? No, no, no, no, no, no soul blade. It sold. Edge with so fishy a-, it was like this kind of Greek goddess, she'd like blond hair. And I remembered that I played for because I was like, I don't know. I was really really young. And I was like, oh, look there's like another pretty girl. So anyway, pick her and she in a lot of fighting games a PS one game. Wow. Oh, yeah. That was my she like jumps up on the guy. And like, you know, his head is like between her legs, and she let cracks his neck with her thighs, and that she jumps off. And I remember that was for signature move. And after that, and then when she would win she would be like, I'm sorry, are you? Okay. And then there's a lot of there's still some of that which I'm surprised still carries over. I guess I mean, I think it's a culture thing. But that schoolgirl that I played in rural. I six like she still says the same thing. She was like, oh, I didn't realize it would hurt that much. Okay. There's there's like one of those in every game because Tekken has one of those two like I feel like it's very common like, especially Japanese voted trope. Oh, you okay. Oh, you just wonder. It's just interesting to me. There's the juxtaposition. I wonder of like the super childlike innocence in like slaying with your thighs. For some reason. The only thing I keep thinking of his Steve urkel because he always says. Let's modest so. She has like a made outfits you. Bench down. Another really ridiculous thing about this game is sometimes you'll like on lock. Okay. So by the way, the season pass for this game is way more expensive than the actual game this season passes like ninety six dollars a heck and includes like a lot of you know, costumes and characters and all this stuff. And you know, sometimes when you're playing normally like unlock some things, and I thought that I locked a costume. No. I take a screen shot because it said like, oh you on locked part of a costume for this character. And it said one out of two hundred. And I was hard. So I have to what it's like you'll on hawk like one tiny aspect of their outfit or something like you can act rawal cop. Pro you can't even wear it. It's like just literally one point version. Yeah. And you cannot let purchase the entire outfit until you've gotten all two hundred points. Nuts. You have to collect it. And then buy it. Do you just like train? Oh, you going trade in the points. But the points are only edited Mike's review, and this is the only reason I know what you're talking about like because the points are only valid for one outfit. So which is fucked. I hate it. Yeah. It would take so long to unlock all of them. And I feel like maybe that's part of what the season passes about. But again like that's that's a ton of money for. I mean as a game that I think is marketed towards people that are like want a bounce physics. I guess it makes sense a game with a boob toggle. They're going to pay. I mean, I wanna sweat slider. But I don't even have that. There wasn't really cool character called LA mighty Posta. And she does like a Lucia LeBron Karna style of fighting which I started to like a lot. I was like I like, this is my thing. And then it was like, yes, this lady is powerful. She is powerful beautiful like mask like shiny like. Masquerade type mass and feathers, and she just around in beats the shit out of people. And then someone wants punch me so hard her mask fell off. And actually, she's very cute. There you go. There you go heard it here. Well, that sounds I kinda wanna play you in this time, Ashley. But I should I also have no idea what I'm doing. That's why it's fun. I'm sure I'll have even less idea. I we have to wrap up the show. So that I can go by orange vanilla coke because that's very important to me now. So Chelsea I'm sorry. We'll get to jam in Earl it is extra week. Okay. I want hear all about that shit. Okay. Hey, folks, it's time for me to remind you about things, but actually we have a 'nother thing that's happening, which is a survey which actually is going to tell you about right now. So I want you to fill it out. Yes, we're conducting an audience survey for the box media podcast network. You can go to vox media dot com slash pod survey. P O D S U R B E Y 'cause I can spell. We just wanna know how we're doing. If we can improve on things if there's anything you would like better, we just want to know more about you. So we can all improve on our podcast together. Yeah. And while you're doing that if you are interested in seeing us love. We're going to be a Pax east at the end of the month Friday of Packie's at five pm in Bob cat theater. You can see us perform for your very is. I I'm not sure if tickets are on sale for packs, but tickets are on sale for pod x which will be in may the end of may in Nashville, and you can find those at pod x dot com. Such TPS if you'd like to review the show, you can review the show, and you should review the show on podcasts or whichever wherever you prefer to review things if you write like, a two thousand word blog post review of the show, I don't know that pretty cool probably wouldn't necessarily help people so much as putting five stars on podcast. But I can't be picky. If you wanna do that work, you do that work. I'm not stop. And you maybe thank you. Hey, if you wanna Email us, you can Email polygon show at polygon dot com. Thank you for listening. Which one gun show? Hey, everyone. I'm back to let you know that polygon will be at south by southwest this year. So if you're going to be there or live in Austin, you lucky duck you're invited to attend the deep end by vox media. 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Overtime CEO Dan Porter on making sports media for Gen Z

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

53:13 min | 2 years ago

Overtime CEO Dan Porter on making sports media for Gen Z

"Hey, this is Peter cough. I mean, executive editor of Recode I want to tell you about something. That's very cool. It is not about the socks I'm wearing. Although they are from MAC Walden. It's from our pal. Casey Newton at the verge. He has a really really really good Email newsletter. Call the interface. There's a script here it supposed to tell me what I should say about it, but I already subscribing interface. So I can tell you is a super smart daily, look at social media democracy, and how those things tied together with Qadesh capitalism. Casey's really, really smart. You will be smarter. If you get this newsletter it is free. So there's literally no reason not to get go. Subscribe Casey's newsletter. Now, it's called the interface. You can find the verge dot com slash interface. Looking at the show notes with a separate you can find the link there. Go casey. Hey, Recode media listeners. I have a favor to ask before we get going. We're conducting an audience survey you need your help takes no more than five minutes of done. It myself. I can verify this. It will really help show your smart. So you can understand why we do a survey like this, please visit box media dot com slash pod survey or just click the link in the show notes. Thank you. Okay. Now, I'm gonna formerly start the show waiting in her Sean link to this podcast and his daily Email that person is Dan porter. I'm Peter Kafka. We're gonna podcast now Rico media, Dan. Hey, Dan is the CEO of overtime before we get to explain what overtime is I'm going to run through some some Dan porter highlights some of which I learned on my own so in which I got from Wikipedia. So some of these may not be true. If they're all highlights, that's fine. If they're low lights deny them, I head of teacher, America. I was the first president. I mean, Wendy Kopp, obviously started teach for America. But. I was on the very first team, and I became the president of it in the mid nineties. Okay. If you say, I do not fat check it. But I believe you you work for Richard Branson. Yes. You formed you did ticket web. Yes. Which made money and sold. Yeah. We saw the first concert ticket on the internet. You worked at a gaming company called OMG pop, which is sold for a bunch of money to Zinger facts. You went to work for William Morris endeavor into digital stuff for them for a bunch of years. Yes. REM annual hired me to work for him. You are an acerbic man for Philadelphia. Yes. Although people from Philadelphia would tell you on the main line. So I understand you related a Milton Friedman. Yes, he is my great uncle and winner of the Nobel prize and proud Rutgers graduate. We Kapiti was correct. Yeah. I did not know and you see over time. That is also factually correct, which I've written about it is a sports media startup. You just raised a second. Big honk round of financing media's supposed to have now fallen out of favor after being in favour. But there are a couple of startups like. Yourself couple specifically in sports that are interesting to investors right now. So we'll talk about all of that. Good. I'm good deal. Okay. Let's let's start with overtime. I wrote about this. I think about a year ago. Yeah. When you raise your first round interesting idea where you tell people what you think it is. Yeah. With overtime. We are trying to build the biggest global sports network in the world. It's called the SPN. No, it will be called over. Okay. Got it. So that's the big missions. And by the way, none of the ones that you'll mention our global in nature because sports is governed by rights and every sports league sells its rights different butchers in every territory, and we don't focus on ride space content. So we are trying to build something that's truly global and distributed sports network. Meaning we're on every platform, you can imagine YouTube, Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, twitch tick tock anywhere that we can be and we are specifically geared towards kind of the generations the audience or the audience that has fallen off from washing traditional live sports, which is the way that I grew up in what you're also focused on at least you were a year ago when I was spending time looking at you was high school sports in high school athletes, and there are other high school sports sites in their focused on scores or trying to figure out who's going to get recruited to whomever. There's that's been around for a while. You said no these are celebrities people like MAC. Mik lung, I guess name right clung the clung Zion. Williamson he probably heard of now, you guys were taking footage of them in high school, and then crazy dunks. They were doing it cetera and then distributing that around the internet. That was your main. Yeah. So I would say some of that is correct. I mean, we don't have a site because young people don't go to website. Sorry, vox. We just nodding. So yeah, I mean, we don't I don't really cover high school sports. I don't cover you cover high school athletes. We cover the most dynamic young people across sports. So where four verticals basketball football soccer and video games the video game folks that we cover it has nothing to do with high school sports soccer is global. There's no high school soccer in America. That's left at any level. They play an academy and stuff like that football is very much driven by high school investable is primarily driven by clubs sports. And now we have rights in in college as well. So our focus really is kind of finding the thirty or forty most dynamic young people who have a chance to be pros and following them. And I'm I make that distinction because typically high school sports has literally covered the school and the teams, and it's been about feeding content to parents. So for us we set out to say like our goal isn't to have parents as an audience. Our goal is to make sports channel for the next generation. And I knew or had an instinct from running the digital talent business at W me. Which is a global talent agency that part of the reason of these YouTube stars were so popular is that people like to watch young people who are like them who they feel they can relate to and aspired to with less distance between them than there is between them. And let's say LeBron James and those people are typically seventeen eighteen years old, but we don't do scores. We don't say who won. We don't say what place there in. We don't look crazy thing. Fifteen second clip of someone doing something amazing it usually it's true. But every almost every clip is tied to a character that you've been following all along. So if you sent me an amazing dunk and said, you should post this. I most likely would say nobody knows who you are. It's not about the highlight. It's about the ongoing story. So in in a weird metaphor, I think. About what we do is almost like Saturday Night Live was going to the real world. Yeah. Every year there's a cast and sometimes those cast members move on. And sometimes they don't and you tell essentially a global story around them you follow those characters. And then sometimes, you know, you follow them as they go on to do other things. That's where we started. You know, we covered trae young who's on the Atlanta Hawks who's having a rookie of the year season. We did our first show with him when he was in the eleventh grade and now he's an NBA player, and we just shot more content with him. So it's really covering those kids, but it's having a relationship with them on their journey as our audience moves with them too. So whether it's the real world, or or another analogy most places when someone is a star or a YouTube blogger you have there's a direct relationship with money at some point at some point. They're getting paid in most cases with high school athletes, you're talking about you're not paying them. In fact, they can't be if they're going to go to call correct? I don't make the rules. Around eligibility NCAA. But yes, and I think many people feel that they should be paid. You know, you can go pro in golf or tennis when you're thirteen years old, and it doesn't have a problem, but you can't do that in basketball or football. So our value transaction with them as we help build their brand we put forth a hundred percent positive coverage of them. There's no got us. There's nothing on there. And as a result somebody like MAC McClellan who might have started with twenty or thirty thousand followers by the time. He got to college three quarters of a million followers Georgetown, Georgetown playing for Patrick Ewing. And that's an asset frame. It means whether he makes the NBA or not he has a platform, and that's a direct result of essentially the value exchange between us and have and just to be cleared. Given have you can't have contracts with these guys even though they're not not? No, no, you just cover them away. Mac we're gonna take it doesn't have a contract with Katie or Steph curry do have contracts the leagues they pay a lot of money for those. Show those clips, and what you've done is you have cheap slash almost no cost content, which I get the appeal of that there's a level of you in the sense that our business is based on the fact that we have two thousand stringers across the globe anywhere from Lithuania, France, Denmark, drew Americans. Yeah. Kid community college student of wanting to twenty three seventeen we have our own proprietary software. We spent two years building on the front end it allows seamless capture of highlights and upload even in low network situations. It tags them in on the back end. We ingest a quarter of a million clips fully tagged with games players. Every year. We go to the game take footage focus on MAC, long Williams, wherever the Lithuanian is and send us your best stuff. Will they don't send it a it gets? So I can literally sit at home and watch as clips comment in real time. And we have various people who are who published for us. And they said in they're like, wow, that's an incredible play. And it's on the internet in one second and across essentially non-professional sports where these kids are playing a you basketball club, sports or high school sports. Nobody has ever really in real time covered that and that was really are advantaged. It was. The breath in the speed. So it's not Naan duro cost, but still very low cost. Because again, you're not paying you're not buying on Wednesday. To pay the NBA. So I get the appeal of that I get the model of that. And I can see why that would be venture business. And then the the on the end of it, right? You distribute your stuff on a website Instagram Twitter with multiple accounts on every single platform. Then that stuff gets picked up by other outlets like house of highlights the Bleacher report Instagram account or ESPN everyone who wrote about you said look at this Macklin dunk which ended up on sportscenter. So I get the appeal of why you'd want to distribute this stuff broadly, but a couple of years ago. I was yes, you must distribute all your stuff broadly, and all the social networks, and YouTube, etc. And narrow and says we'll, but you don't actually make money there. And there's lots of problems there, and you don't control that. And they're now actually in the business of helping their media partners necessarily. So how does that work for you guys as a business, right and people say that because they have a very traditional old school mentality about media. I would say in the very beginning. You know when they were five. Of us in a room and almost every highlight was shot by one of the five of us on an iphone. We would capture stuff of as I n Williamson eleventh grade or any of these other people and all the folks, you mentioned ESPN, FOX NBC other folks would come and say, hey, can we license this footage from you? You know, we'll pay you five hundred dollars one thousand dollars. And I said you can actually have it for free as long as you leave our watermark on it. And so when we were no one, everyone was blasting our content all around the internet and investors used to say how I see you guys everywhere. Well, they didn't see us with our two thousand followers they saw elsewhere. But that was a value transaction and in return, that's built us millions and millions of followers. So now, we don't need to do that. It's it's beneficial to have them share it. But I think you have to think about it in different ways. What you're talking about is primarily short form content and short form content is not a big moneymaker. It does two things one. Is it introduces you to a bunch of these? Characters and then we have thirteen series on YouTube in four series on Snapchat. So that's the long form content. You can watch them. They're they're playing in airports all over the place and just to be clear long-form on youtuber. Snapchat means seven minutes it's anywhere from eight to twenty two minutes. But the real value is that what you're building is your building a highly engaged community. And so there's this perception of media, which is I make this thing. It's a video. It's a podcast. It's something else. I push it out there. And then people that I don't know sit out there and watch it, and then they move on to consume the next thing for us. What we're really trying to do is build a highly highly engaged community. And as an example, I was at the NBA all star game where I saw you. And I met a cool namedrop? Yes, you or the all star game. And I met a person who is, you know, very very high up at one of the large social networks, and that person said didn't know who we were that person. Son was there and said. Oh my gosh. Overtime. I watch you guys all the time. We sent them at t shirt and a sweatshirt, and that person sent me an Email today and said, my son has not taken off this sweatshirt since you send it to him. And I don't think that that person was like felt the same way. If you sent them a sweatshirt from five other media companies that I could name because those people focus on pushing content out. They don't focus on building community. You know, I have full-time people on the athlete relations side, we have people who respond to hundreds and hundreds of DM's that we get who common who engage with the people. There's a whole segment of people who love overtime only for what goes on in the comments like we have roast battles. Where are people will actually literally roast kids in the comments, and they turn that into a show? So it's not it's not an accident that you know, I ran a community gaming site for five years in a lot of the value was in that community and in that network. Let me just accelerate a little bit. So let's say everything's going. Great for you in the next couple of years you. Keep getting bigger and bigger and building more audience and more community in the end, you still need to generate revenue especially in the model wherein now, right where venture investors are less interested in sort of what you might become in like you still have to prove out of business for sore. So you are gonna make money how? Yeah, I so I would say two things I will definitely tell you how we currently make money, which is how we will also make money in the future. But I will also say that instead of launching a media company where we went into a highly commodity ties area news technology, where we had nothing original say, and we couldn't point to any audience segment that we own instead, we went into a traditionally sleepy unless exciting area high school sports, we made it in the words of my children late and we own that audience segment. So when large media companies, look at us doesn't matter if we do a billion views or a billion and three view. Us. What matters is that. We have kept for the young people. So some of the people who used to share our content won't even share content anymore because they're threatened by us. They see that we have aggregated this group that they cannot aggregate, and that's really different, and that's valuable we make money in three ways. Number one. We work with brands we'd do millions of dollars of brand revenue already. So they're paying you to make what they sponsor shows that we make they wanna the show brought to you by Gatorade. Yeah. They want to reach our audience in a way that seems authentic inorganic. We first started working with endemic brands to sports apparel Gatorade other folks like that and have grown beyond that the second thing is we're very focused on commerce. We have generated substantial revenues in selling apparel. We have over twenty five skews we release every season sweat shirts. Sweatshirts t shirts shooting sleeves socks everything. Like, we act like we are building the next Nike or Adidas and it works because the same reason that you might wear a patriots jersey or giants jersey or Mike Kafka eagles jersey. Oh, you got to because you want to represent, and I think that's a large extent of why people where are powerful we seated with athletes and influencers, and it means something in the world. So commerce isn't something that we got ten years into our business model, and we're like we have to sell stuff that was built from day one. And then the third is experiential and live. So are ultimately Mike are big big picture goal is to start our own league. So that we don't have to buy rights that we can be fully vertically integrated. And until we get to that point. We will start doing tournaments and events and other kinds of sports IP that we can create a known globally so talk to a little bit more of others after the break. But before we get there just one big picture question. Right. Journalism requires a rule of three right than you can call something a trend. Yeah. So there are th it's partly because it's it's selection bias, right? I'm looking at them. But I'm thinking of you the athletic subscription sports site. And now what is the action network which Afghan right? They're all they're all different businesses. But they're all sports way to develop a track. Did venture money recently. Is there something semantic about sports? Do you think it's interesting to investors now or that's just randomly three different companies that are seem appealing. Well, I would say in terms of gaming, which is the euphemism for betting. Sure, I mean that that is a huge transition in this country that will we're getting have allies gambling. Yes. Legalize inventory in person person in different states. Yes. I would say in general sports is amazing because it's it's such a large vertical. It's filled with an enormous amount of passion sports is an ongoing news cycle. I could get into food and. I could tell you, Peter I have a brownie recipe. And you're like why now I mean, I have brownie recipes or I could tell you I have this kitty seventeen these explosive he's going to be bigger than LeBron. Those are two different things sports is really tough. Because I'd say about eighty percent of venture investors have no interest in sports whatsoever. They make sports jokes sport ball. I get. I mean, they are nerds or nerd adjacent. And they don't actually like sports that was said by you. But something to that extent. So it's actually pretty challenging we found some investors who liked the market dynamics. But I would say by the way, if you watch Golden State Warriors game the front row is floor of dudes who envoy investor. So there are people, and that's why they're one of our investors. And I think they get it. And the thing about sports is if you go to a movie or you watch TV show, the ending is always going to be the same. Whereas you watch game anything could happen. And so I think there's interest, but. The fact that all three of those were funded. I think is probably just a coincidence. They just represent different parts of the market dynamics for blowing holes in my bullshit trend story, Dan porter. I'm going to think of a new one we're gonna take a quick break back in a minute. This is advertiser content. You obviously like listening to podcasts like this one. But what do you do when you want to discover new audio content that matches your interests you can search for whatever you want online by typing keywords into a search engine? But the world of audio is a little different all use the only medium so far that was never searchable sharable. This is called Klein, the CTO and co-founder of audio burst. Audible is the first search discovery platform for all your talk contests on a daily basis, we read and scan and listen to ends of thousands of sources trying to understand what's going on in the world in every out. So you could ask your smart speaker? What's the latest on baseball, an audio Burswood instantly deliver a few short bursts of relevant information from podcast and radio shows, aired even just minutes ago? And that means that audio burst has to listen to and process tons of data. Typical talk officers generates around twenty eight million pieces of mater, they that includes key. Words audio cues. The words itself that's a huge amount of content audio I relies on Microsoft, Azure, to produce the best possible. Search results, we're processing millions of minutes of talk all that requires a very strong backbone, and that's what we're getting from Azure. Discover what your business can build with Azure. Get a new Azure free account at Azure dot com slash trial. As E U R, E dot com slash trial. Peter Kafka back here with Dan porter. He's drinking water not talking because he doesn't believe in multitasking. I like sparkling water though. That's pretty good though. That's venture water you drink and right? One other question. But overtime. This is something that that you are the CEO of your the co founder of correct your co-founders half your age. He is exactly half. My how do you meet ho founder half your age? And how do the two of you decided to build a business instead of making a buddy movie or something else that seemly maybe? Yes that that's a good question. And he's at a tremendously smart individuals aquifers his name, we met because initially when I was working at WM me, William Morris endeavor. I just had an early glimpse into the fact that the younger audience wasn't watching live sport. And you and your job. William Moore's was to do what was the head of digital. So I ran the venture fund. I did all the digital strategy. I built the digital talent division. I worked on podcasting virtual reality anything digital. It was like broadly across the whole agency and subsequently after I started working there w EMI acquired IMG, which is a big sports. Yeah. Rights agents. And I also worked on the digital there. And so I was saying in twenty thirteen twenty fourteen that various clients leagues. Other people were pointing out they were coming to us and saying, wow. Can we work with your digital talent to reengaged kids in sports and live sports? And that's a whole other podcast discussion. Why aren't they watching live sports any number of reasons? They don't want to sit in front of a TV for three hours. It slow. It has commercial breaks. I don't know cable and watch ninja play fortnight on twitch. They can watch game of thrones. They don't have cable there are a million different things. But the fact is that it's true. And you know, the joke is that parents would say, well, my kid will never have a TV in their room growing up. And of course, they have a phone and a computer and and multiple screens. But they're they're just watching other stuff. And the other thing is while kids have short attention spans. I watched my fell in the buying friend nephew needs child, scroll through Instagram. Will they're watching shows the they just have short. Attention span for old people content that hasn't changed in thirty years. But you know, my kids who are seventeen in twenty will watch lots of shows that are just formatted better for them. And so I knew that there was an opportunity there. But I knew that I had certain advantages. I knew how to build a company in a platform. But I knew I had limitations too in that I'm not the target demographic. And I had not build something in sports. And so I asked a guy I went to Princeton, and I asked a younger guy who wanted to Princeton who I had met through start up if he knew anyone that kind of younger guy, Josh had gone this Davison with Zach my co-founder and New York City high school, they had both leads. They are sitting on the chess team. Yes, they took this HSA t got in. And so through this Facebook post, he introduced me back. He's like, oh, I know this old guy who wants to build a company around sports. And I know this young guy who had started a sports company. In college, and he introduced us, and we just had a lot of chemistry around our shares. So he was how old when you met him. He's like twenty five now. Right. He was probably twenty two when I met him. And do you have to broker that through his parents just seems a little I did not he's very mature, amazingly brilliant individual. But the the funny thing is that after we started working together, formerly his mom figured out that my dad Jerry porter retired professor from university of Pennsylvania had been Zack's adviser in college. So that worked up. Yeah. So this is like when someone says, I have a great idea. But I don't know how to program I need a technical co founder, right? And you say I have a cool idea. But I'm too old to make sports thing aimed at millennials right there. Yeah. I I'm what do we call younger than millennials. I'm probably not humble enough to say that I still probably believe I could have I just realized that it would work better. It'd be advantageous guy to know the things that I know and and to know the things he knew and by the. Way he can say new ones says lid anymore now Ed is exactly true. And that's not it's it's funny because there's a segment of investors a couple particularly in lower Manhattan who said to my face. I will not invest in your company because young people are watching the content and your old, and these were genius investors who themselves had never actually started anything. But so that to me, but I, but I understood there ages point, and the fact that they completely miss underestimated me, but I look I understood the things that I knew and I understood why we have Dan on the puck. And and I understood the things where I needed to build a platform to get other people to know. And by the way, it's like, I don't know everything about basketball football soccer video games. But I do know how to build a company and hire people and nurture them and bring on young people and do that. And and that's part of the game. And Zach had built a company in college where he had three hundred freelance writers, and I knew in. What became essentially are stringer system where we have all of these people. I didn't know how to recruit those people. I didn't know how to go to college and finding somebody say take out your phone, your the stupa, shimmy guy. Yeah. Exactly. And he knew how to do that. Adventure questions sets or bagging adventure, people some of them. So you just raised what twenty four twenty three. And before that, I only reason prime numbers and before that it was with nine before that it was two point five and then nine point four, which is not a prime number. But okay. So you've rated point four million dollars. Yes. Four thirty ish. Yeah. Thirty charities in a couple of years. Yes. You've you've been in investor. You've built and sold companies. You know, your way back and forth around startup financing. We're at a moment. Now, we both saying, hey, maybe venture investing has problems may being blitz. Scaling that would any version of this. We just had price Roberts explaining why you should take less money or no money. Did you ever consider? Hey, maybe we shouldn't raise a ton of money right away. Because that is going to force us to get to a valuation. That's very high. We have to grow into that valuation. There are all kinds of pitfalls there. Or you say, I know exactly what I'm doing. I have massive expectations. And that's why I'm going to raise a ton of money quickly. Then. The way you would have done five or ten years ago. Well, I I feel like we did both in a way like we raised a seed round of two and a half million dollars. It was used to be a crazy number is. Now, it was very it was not easy to do when we started. I didn't get paid in the very beginning. And for the first year, that's always spent we only had ten people. There was no blitz scaling. There was building stuff that didn't work and figuring stuff out. But I think when we hit that threshold, and it was different in this series. We went in and we pitched over time in the series B. There wasn't a room that we went into where people didn't know who we were. And you know, we're trying to build something really big like they're two point three billion people under twenty five in the world. And I gotta believe at least half of them like sports. And so you don't go about getting a big audience and trying to build a big network like that by doing it incrementally content. His not inexpensive. And by the way. If you look at who wins who is in sports, it's all massive billion dollar global media company. So I wasn't trying to build a mom and pop app. So I could watch my eighth grader play basketball trying to build something bigger this part of this because you have been a successful wash for in the past you've made money selling companies that the idea of so you sold OMG pop for two hundred dish million dollars. Right. Two Zanga significant amount of money. You gotta chunk of it does having done that. Then change your perspective on on your ambitions for company number three slash this is probably your fourth or fifth. I think actually it changes. Well, my emissions are always the same in every single one. I want to build the biggest thing in the world wanna make a giant thing. Yeah. I wanna make it because I want because I feel like the world wants it. I wanna make it. Because personally, I want to spend my time building something big and meaningful. I will say that. Despite the fact that I've had high level corporate jobs for three different companies, and I've sown. Old to startups combined for quarter of a billion dollars. I pitched probably sixty five people when we started forty five after I left the meeting never even responded. They never even gave me a no and many other people said, no a few small mazing investors. Jeff, Jordan, Andriessen, bijon that spark. Ian, a great Croft bay said. Yes. And they believed in us. But I thought well like, I'm Dan porter. I did some stuff look written about me. Written about me extensive was ranked number four hundred thirty two most influential and tech in two thousand columnists for me. Exactly. But it didn't matter like, they just didn't believe, but I knew from some of the early things that I saw that. There was a huge amount of potential there night. And I just believed. So before we started talking you were talking about what you're doing prior to this which was scouting out a gaming house in Williamsburg. Yes. Which is not a euphemism. But tell me what that means. So I've always been obviously, you know, I I ran a gaming site. You played on said gaming site in a car game called hover cart. And when I was at w on me. I started the league which is televised sports competition, and I learned a ton from my two boys who have always loved to play video games. And I've understood for a while that. The desire to watch people who are far better than you compete, a playing these games is a meaningful desire, and that our audience isn't like, well, that's on a keyboard. And that's on a field. So one is two and one is false. They enjoy it. And it's sports. And so I set out to do that as part of what we're doing. Once we got to be mature and other sports, and we built a fort nineteen we recruited people, we competed. We've won tens of thousands of dollars. We have a what I feel is a pretty good team. But a lot of the people in the competitive gaming space have found that there are media attributes to their businesses that are as valuable on what that means is that it's almost as valuable for them to rent a fifty thousand dollars a month gaming mansion in Los Angeles. Put a bunch of gamers in there, and let them make content about their life. Because in a way, it's the same as our business. It's that you really can't it just to expense. You're going to rent a house in Williamsburg. You're gonna sock it with. Fifty thousand square feet couple thousand I'm guessing williamsburg's not cheap. Yes. You're going to put gamers in then. Yeah. Going to game. You're gonna you're gonna create you're gonna and you're gonna film them gaming. Yeah. And so they'll the contemplate the actual gaming content. They make the content you make about them. Yeah. She's not a new idea. Right. That's the real world. And it's not. Ultimate fighting championship. He was very smart. I mean, the UFC became the UFC because of that reality show, and the fact is that you could drop me in front of two of the best teams in the world. And if I don't know anyone on that team. I would rather watch my six year old soccer game because at least I know him and I love him and I want to see him play. And so if you can't get an attachment to the characters in the individuals, create your it's why we stop watching TV shows on so to oh, they killed off my favorite character. And the and the other advantage for you here, right? Is that there is no amateur status in gaming, right? So you can actually do contracts with these gamers, you can own their IP or whatever deal you make as opposed to assign Williamson her MAC long where anyone can film them and broadcast. That's absolutely. And the thing that I would add to that is that I think the thing that is special about our business is that there's an amazing point as a young person maybe somewhere between fifth and eleventh grade where you. As a young person think anything could be possible. Like, I thought I was going to be a rock and roll star had long hair. I played guitar. You know, other people thought they were gonna go to the NBA or they were gonna do something else. Parents like, yes. And good for you. My parents were like nice Jewish boys. Don't get to be Rockstars at my grandparents. Bobby Bruce Springsteen, it'd be an economist. Yeah. They bought me. A Bruce Springsteen record to show me. And I was like he's half Irishman Italian. But I wanted this abuse them of that notion. And so like that is amazing part about being a young person. And it's actually one of the best parts. And I think that we tap into that aspiration. So when we launched our gaming team, literally we received thousands of messages from kids saying I want to be on your gaming team. Are they good enough? No, they're definitely not good enough. But they think that that's possible. And that's amazing. Just like they watch these other kids, and they think I might be on overtime. And in fact, they might be on overtime or they might play in a match with one of our gamers, and I think that that emotion. Personal component is really really different than me sitting at home. Watching some player who gets paid one hundred million dollars a year where that distance is so great, and I come back to the idea of community, and my come back to this emotional feeling of what it means to be a young person and participate and see people like you and think you might be on overtime. And I think in a way that's what makes our business special, and I have a separate Instagram account aside from my personal account where I am the CEO of overtime. And I follow, you know, five thousand kids who follow us, and they DM me. And they send me messages like I just want to let you know that in twenty nineteen I'm going to be on overtime. And I say great like at and that that aspect of it. It's just different. And so when people are like media companies aren't doing, well, I'm like well media companies that are involved in the hearts and minds of kids that like tap in the dreams that celebrate all those those are going to do great people who throw up a couple blog posts about the news or about technology. Yeah, they're screwed. But that's what we're doing. Hey, you've already crossed that threshold Hari. Thank you. Jim listens. By the way. Hey, jim. And just so we're clear that this thing that I was hoping for a bunch of years because I have kids now that that. Leagues and gaming was going to be sort of a trend that you're hoping this year's. Yeah. We're we're stuck with it. Right. We're definitely kids view gaming watching watching other people play video game as as as legitimate. Frankly, more interesting than watching real sports. Why is watching somebody run up and down the field? And intellectually get intellectually why that's the case. But but the point is we don't think this is a blip or the equality of of of a fortnight dance that comes and goes, I don't think so I will say that that most people tend to watch games that they play versus I don't play football. But I'm I watch football. They tend to watch games that they play because they wanna see people who are really good because they want to learn how to get back at age with it. So when they're thirty five they're on their couch watching, you know who one hundred percent Jay is on fortnight. Yes. So like my son played in a gaming tournament. So all of a sudden, I had something at stake. And I watched it, and it was exhilarating and at the end of four hours of watching. I thought oh my gosh. There were no commercial breaks. There were no timeouts. Everything was like on the edge of your seat. It's a battle royale game. So it's like you are eliminated, and you are done. I cared about one of the characters in the game because he was my son, and it was in enormously exciting, by the way, thinking about third of the conversations I had at the NBA all star weekend. We're we're about a gambling. Yes, not third were about fortnight's everyone. They're all the sports guys. Get for night and the rest were about podcasts. Yes. So let me ask you a question. Like, would you believe I can't believe that people watch other people play chess? It's so not physical. I mean, you don't have to be strong to play chess. You know, it's like the same argument. It's just yeah. But but just is not very popular. Right. There was Bobby Fisher back when we had literally nothing else to parents aren't throwing up their arms thing ninety thousand people are watching a live chess match on twitch, which they are for some chess matches. It's just it's it's that's considered. You know, it's it's analog. But what's the diff? Between watching chess watching fortnight or watching people play basketball. It's all competition and his Bobby Kodak will say there's a finite number of people in the world who look like a rod, but there's way more people who look like him and all those people want to have competitive experiences, by the way the prize pool for the fortnight World Cup one hundred million dollars beer than Wimbledon bigger than almost every other sport. Or I'm going to ruminate about this for another minute. You guys are going to listen to this message. We'll be right back. Today's show is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. Hiring is hard and you hire the old fashioned way. It takes forever, and it's really difficult to find good candidates. But when you go to ZipRecruiter dot com slash Peter. I we'll be easy. Ziprecruiter sends your job to more than one hundred of the web's leading job boards, but they do not stop there. They use their powerful matching technology to scan thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job as applicastions come in ZipRecruiter analyzes each one can spotlights the top candidates. You never miss a great match. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. And right now, my listeners can try it for free for zero dollars good ZipRecruiter dot com slash Peter. They want Peter for you. But you know, how to do that ZipRecruiter dot com slash Peter. So they know I sent you one more time Zip Recruiter dot com slash Peter. Let's start recording. And so we can hear damage long about the value of of pickup basketball versus f PS and third party shooters. I want to ask you about about the world of building startups and building apps and building successful games. You built a couple of successful ones at least one that didn't work was one called thread. He showed it to me. I mean, maybe write about it. Oh, tally tally Twitter derivative it. It was more like a visual read it. So what is different about building a successful or hopefully successful startup slash app. Digital startup company in twenty nineteen. Then when did you do pop that was twenty ten thousand eight two thousand eight ticket before that? So how what are the what are the important changes over those times over that time? I think that I mean, there's all the obvious things. Obviously the cost of storage and speed of ability to do things are different. Everything's cheaper. Everything's cheaper. The flipside is it's many things have been built some were built with the wrong time. You know, what van was the wrong time freshdirect was the right time. But I would say overall, I think that Cosmo dot com. Exactly. Yeah. Or post mate? I think that there was a perception that technology startups had to be. Didn't care about brand had to build platforms. It was all about your technology versus someone else's pure technology. And I think that so much has been built that you see in, you know, direct DT see commerce and other things that it's not just the technology. But it's all the aspects of the business. It's it's it's the branding. It's it's everything else. It's less like this is a pure arms race of my thousand lines of code versus your five thousand lines of code. And it's more about all the other attributes around the business because it's not like everyone's at the party and nothing's ever been built anymore. So we're in this world where you know, there's lots of like, oh, we can't build media companies on the back of Facebook Google anymore. It's to fraud you build on someone else's platform. You can't control it. That's now the new conventional wisdom for like media, right? There's this direct to consumer thing. You just talked about which everyone is building. Everyone is building a retail busy. On instagram. You are building a media business that is meant to be distributed on a bunch of platforms. You don't own your own site cracked. So we can't we can't draw a linear line, right? I'm also building commerce business on Instagram. I think it's just silly. Like, where do I listen to this podcast? Oh, I listen to it on apple you, don't own your own distribution. You know, I watch TV show, and it's on spectrum cable, and it's on a Samsung TV, oh, you don't own your own distribution. I I just think that the way that people think about that is highly limited, and if I go, and I put on overtime t shirt, and I walked down the street here and some kid looks at me and says yo shoutout to overtime. I think I own a relationship with that kid, whether I'm you distributing it on the Samsung TV on Instagram on the apple, you know, podcast app. Anything else like that? And you're not worrying about one day Instagram turning around saying, we're going to impose some limits at cetera other if you're gonna do brand if you're gonna. Have sponsorships we need to limit it. Or we take a cut or anything that they can do because they own the platform, they can all make changes. But I think number one we're on a lot of different platforms. I didn't try to build a Facebook hacking style media company, and I think the other thing is that we've crossed that threshold like the people who consume our content really care about us, and they like us, and if we're not available in one place, they'll go find us in another place. But I think if you try to do that on day one if you try to hear the two mistakes you can do. Well, I need to own my audience on day one. I'm going to build a website that nobody knows and nobody can find and I never get any traction. Or? Wow, social media's amazing. I'm going to go there. And I'm a used social media to drive everyone to said website because my investors said I need a website because I need to own my audience versus I'm happy for them to come and engage with us on discord on Instagram anywhere that they want to engage with us. I don't think of social media as a conduit to. Drive you to someplace and I can tell the difference. When I go and meet with a billion dollar media company and the CEO of that company starts out the conversation and says, oh, I went to your website. And I think our website. I don't even know what's like, we have a website. So we can have an Email address. I'm like, why aren't you looking at our YouTube channel our Instagram our show on Snapchat or a cell phone Twitter anything else like that. It's just the way that that people consume media. This is not your first time around building a company three or four or five of these. That said, I'm I'm sure you have got something wrong here. What did you get wrong where you thought I know better than to do this or I would have thought this would have worked because I'm so old, and I've done this so many times, and I still got it wrong. Oh, I got so many things wrong. Like when we started. I think my vision was to build a sports center for all thirty two thousand high schools, and we built it for about one hundred high schools in the northeast here are the highlights from the games tonight. Yeah. From your school from sty. Or you know, any place else, and that was one of the schools, they have a great badminton team. And I think what we found was a couple of things one is nobody wanted to watch it the kids in the game. Where like I didn't really do anything epic in that game. The parents didn't want to watch it. And then I would have one video of Zion Williamson, and it would do more views than all hundred schools combined. And so I was like, oh, we're being very literal about this. And so we just scrap that whole thing second is like, oh, I need to have an app where people go, and I started an Instagram account as a way to promote the app and the Instagram account had massive engagement blew up and built our whole community. And I thought that that's way more valuable than trying to support better at figuring out your screw ups and moving onto the next thing then you would have been that number of years ago. Does that part accrue to you to your benefit like, okay, I've seen this. I know when this when this is broken in this thing's working to drop that thing or you still a regular human. And you still wanna make the first thing work because that was your original. Idea. I think that I don't know if I'm better, but it's less devastating. Like, you just realize like okay that that really didn't work even even in other things like when we started out covering football. We film football games and chopped up highlights. And it turned out that what people wanted to see was like the day in the life with all of these great kids, and we'd get two thousand views of a game with like three touchdowns and half a million views of hang out for twenty minutes with a kid who's going to be in the NFL in two or three years. And so you just realize like it's not that devastating like as long as we learn and we keep moving relentlessly, and we build the train while it's moving we will get there. So I think I'm better at not having that break, my heart every time it goes wrong. You spend a bunch of time in Hollywood working for William Morris are Emmanuel what's the show entourage entourage? That's the RA. Character doesn't really look like him, but they're similar. So you got you got very exposed to. Hollywood and big media companies in what they're thinking. Do you have a sense of sort of are they ready for the moment in time that we're in now where AT and T owns Time Warner and net is the most dominant player in Hollywood. An apple is coming in a couple of weeks to to start putting out their own content is Hollywood ready for an effort a longtime. They clearly weren't are. They ready now, I think that there's an element. That's ready in that on the production company on the agency side, there sellers of content if you're buying you know, it doesn't matter. Whether you're the Reverend Jim Jones or your net flakes or your gym or your your AMC like their job is to make content. But so delighted that there. Got more buyers. Never, of course today. Steven Spielberg is like streaming services shouldn't be able to compete for the Oscars. You know, there are people who've done the same thing for thirty years who don't see the writing. But there's a whole crop of young people who are also subscribers to net flix and users of Instagram and viewers of YouTube, and they understand I think ultimately the big challenge is that sometimes the pie gets smaller. You know Craigslist disrupted. We'll stay classifieds, and that was devastating to print media and the pie got smaller. Ultimately, there were changes that were potentially positive. So I think part of them are ready, and that they're just ready to sell more to more people. But there are other things where you know, some people don't like making stuff that's not twenty two minutes. You know? And that's the you can't sell to television. If it's not twenties for a long time. The agencies would have a digital team or digital person. But the. End of existed to like sorta like if Ben Stiller wanted to make a website or something they would work with them. But the real business was in representing Ben Stiller. So he when he got fifteen or twenty million dollars movie has that shifted new. It has shifted to some extent. I think there are still many unnamed people who believe that they are going to bring a premium level of content to digital into the internet. And that is a very top down perception, no kid in America's like, wow, I love watching David Dobric of logs are all this other stuff. I just wish it were premium and shot in ten eighty p jelly cats in Bergen directed at lots of people were trying to do that's one of the possible. That's true. But I just think that people are very happy with what they're watching. And for me. I'm really interested in figuring out what the problems of my user, Mike, consumer might community member are and building from that. Rather than kind of purveying the landscape and saying well with all our Hollywood knowledge, this stuff is great. Watching of log is amazing. But what they really want is premium content and short-form, and and by the way, there's already short form content on Netflix. You can watch the end of the F ING world in the episodes or eighteen minutes long. Vox media has some some. Yes, when I watch some of those they're great, very good. Not listening. They're very well produced and they move quickly. Am I think that it's like we used to have this thing in the video game business where you would play like a premium video game and the beginning of every video game would be the same. It would be like, you know, like the beginning of a movie a so and so's studios production by this studio by that studio and five minutes later the game would queue up and you'd start to play. And we realize we're making mobile games and you're on the twelfth floor, and you just wanna play by the time you get down to the first floor. So we gotta get you in that game within one second. And I think there's still tends to be that that's like a metaphor. But they're still tends to be that divide in timing and pacing invoice. And then all of those things like that. And the fact is that people appreciate content that resonates with them and the internet appeals to Seoul, much long tail content on boxing, whispering doing all. There's you know, I read an article today about people like to watch other people's study like, no, yeah. Ours. There's literally everything but the. Fact is, but that's amazing and like that never existed because there's no television station for that. There's no format for that. Those people aren't like. Wow. If I could only watch them study in HD, and they spent fifty thousand dollars a minute to make that it's amazing for them. And I think that that gets me excited about every single day, Dan. This is great where it was I- cynical enough. Where you you shocking. We spared me that Kafka knives. All right. I mean, I can talk to you more about exploiting high school kids if you want. Do you already did that we already did it? So people should go. Check you out at over time dotcom know, exactly come on your ribbing, meet you should go to overtime on Instagram. You should watch us on YouTube were overtime everywhere. He goes smart. You can figure it out, Dan. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Thanks again to Dan for coming on the podcast. Thanks to you guys for listening. I love it. When you tell me that you like the show. That's awesome. It's even more awesome. If you tell someone else, it'd a Twitter Facebook sky writing you could leave a review and apple podcasts. That'd be cool. Thanks to our sponsors. Thanks to canes thirteen FOX media who bring those sponsors to you. So you can listen to Recode media for zero dollars zero cents. Thanks to Joe Robbie who edits. This show's producers Golda Arthur, Eric Johnson Gilani Carter. This is Recode media. We will see you next week. Hello, Recode media listeners. This is me enthusiastically telling you that I'm going to be at south by southwest and March perhaps I'm there right now as you're listening to this. If you're going to be there, maybe you're there right now, you should go to the deep end by vox media. That's our experiential space, which means it's a space. You can hang out and do cool things like drink and listen to live music at the Belmont. Which is a ten minute walk from the Austin convention center. Friday, March eighth through Sunday March tenth will be hosting a series of live podcast musical spotlights. Eater approved food and much more. I'm going to be there. Cara Swisher is going to be there. The host of the verge casts are going to be there, and vox is the wheat. We will have a bunch of cool special guests, I'll be interviewing Mark Cuban care is going to be interviewing VC Arlan. Hamilton folks from the ringer will be there. They've got a couple of surprises coming for you. It mission is free. But space is limited. So you've got to register if you wanna show up, here's how you do it. You can RSVP at vox media, events dot com slash S. X S W sounds more complicated than it is. It's vox media events dot com slash s x s w you can also look at my Twitter because and all information of their for you can look at it. It mission is free. But space is limited. So don't wait. I will see you there.

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The history and future of "net art" with Rhizome artistic director Michael Connor

Recode Decode

48:43 min | 2 years ago

The history and future of "net art" with Rhizome artistic director Michael Connor

"In today's show is brought to you by thought works presenting. Go CD, a modern CI CD tool that provides control of and visibility into complex software. Deployments. Support for cloud. Environments like coober, Netease, Docker AWS, Azure, and more. Learn more at ghost CD dot ORG. Hi, I'm Karen Swisher editor at large of Recode. You may know me as the curator of the museum dedicated to Chrissy, teigen's Instagram posts. But in my spare time, I talked tech. And you're listening to Rico decode from the vox media podcast network today. In the red chair is Michael Connor the artistic director of resume a digital art community affiliated with the new museum in New York City where I am right now Reizo is currently running an exhibit fascinating exhibit at the museum highlighting the history of art made on the internet. It's called the art happens. Here click here apparently the on your book, which is really wonderful. If a wonderful book affiliate with it. Michael welcome to Rico decode screw to be her. So I'm so excited about this. Because there's a there's a couple in there. I do recall Dalai clone. I call that and some others. I've been around since the beginning of the internet, we covered it very early. And art was sort of a something I hadn't thought of although it Kurt on it all the time, and there's memes, and there's creativity and all kinds of things. So I'd love to of. Get an idea of how this came together. And then I wanna talk about the actual individual pieces. And there's some you want to focus in on. So let's talk about how it came together. Sure. Well, I think that story is sort of an extra couple from the story of resume it self which is an organization that was founded in nineteen ninety six, you know, pretty early in the public internet any McCain together as a kind of Unwin community to bring people together to share information and talk about this this new kind of meeting the kitchens platform, and how it could be artistically. Right. But very quickly after that it evolved into conversation about how works were made through that new platform could be sustained over time. So nineteen ninety nine resin began an archive of digital are called the art base talk about that. Because things go away on the internet. There's been the internet archive to save websites. And and things that happened like you can find old Yahoos old Google's the original things, but the internet by its nature, even though there's a famous line in the movie about Facebook the the internet's written in pen pencil. It does go away. It does. It has the. FM morality that is very different and in art. That's the case. Sure. I actually don't use the word morale unit because I think that the kind of doesn't have to go away right through something. That's very performed about the internet. I'm that's one of the reasons why we call her exhibition the art happens here because the art is happening. It's not a passive object on shelf, it sure something happens in encounters between people and machines, and what we find is that overtime internet culture is devalued. So people don't recognize its value, and they're not putting the resources absolutely into sustaining. Companies don't kind of consider the kind of downside bulbs lessons as they pushed forward for always having a new any platform in anything. Right. And so there is a kind of cultural aspect to the way that internet art can doesn't last so you had been collecting and preserving it because what was the the idea that it should be collected and preserved like other works of art who resume is really an organization that focuses on a very contemporary form of culture. But we do that with the knowledge that that there's a conversation that people can draw on from the past. So we're always trying to support younger artists and emerging works new kinds of practice or even recognizes are yet. But in doing so we want people to know like there's this whole history that you can draw on and and kind of bring forward is the resource for the president. All right. So go ahead to we'll see this exhibition is an opportunity to kind of bring together different positions from the history of internet, art and two I think present them in ways that show how they are kind of relevant to this moment in time as well, which is any exhibition wants to do that. But. But you were preserving these overtime. And with what would where were they presented somewhere there in this archive will the question of how to preserve in art is like a really interesting one. But I think Risa has a particular take on that conversation. I'm you know, we're sort of interested in in the idea of an art being re performed and and thinking about how this very active format can be ca can be treated in a way that doesn't fix it necessarily in in a given position. But instead who has it to to kind of live. So there's a couple of different technical strategies that we've developed in particular that we found to be really suitable. I'm to a preservation strategy. One of them is a mutation are preservation director dragging. That's been shed is a really key advocate of emulation as a way of bringing works from the past into the present. And one of the interesting things about a mutation which is using a piece of software to imitate. Another piece of software is that what we're doing? When we use them. You wish is not preserving the artwork necessarily. We're preserving the software that. Made it run and says the real problem isn't keeping a hold of the work. But it's keeping the whole devolve the cultural contextual context that surrounds it right, which is different than I think preservation in a museum traditional context. It's interesting. You say that because I was at the Smithsonian ten years ago, and they had all these computers. They had to save because they were trying to save them for posterity all the various computers and devices, and one of the problems is to problems actually one is they had were missing some of the software to use it to be able to use it and the degrading of that software. And then Secondly, the people who knew how to use it. And so they would have to find really old people to work some of the very early technologies, which I was an if not they were just blocks of red bricks. They were like bricks that didn't do anything until a really interesting. So they brought me in there. Like, what are we doing? I was like I don't know like something like it was it was really interesting question. I guess go to the companies and hope that they preserve them. You know, keeping hold of that knowledge is an important part of what we do. We actually have a software curator. Lindsay Jane malls. She's not, you know, a dinosaur of the internet. She's someone instead who researchers these two. You know, one of her kind of key projects is to look at browsers at the past and kind of research and understand their different differences. What they were capable of presenting and what they weren't. And you know, there's a lot of really practical ways that comes into play a console you. When you want to get one of the works in the gallery exhibition at the new museum, they're not all browser-based. But one of the ones that is is called skin on skin on skin by a group called enterprise. It's super, and it's really what year this is from ninety nine. And it's actually just turned twenty years old a few a couple of weeks ago. It's a good push Valentine's Day work because it's actually a series of twenty five internet based love letters back and forth multimedia, love letters. And they did it after meeting online on hell dot com, which may. Yeah. And the work was actually intended to be private just for them. But other uses of like kind of I think they stumbled upon their private directory and then became public, right? So then they decide to sell it. So they made it a pay per view artwork in the early intern. Net. But the work involves all kinds of things like I'm shockwave and flash and sound and all these other things so finding the right browser that ran this work. You know, took that kind of knowledge. That he did it at one of our conferences, actually, which is interesting. So let me see this in order to make this work accessible on the web. Today are preservation team would by dragging has set up an online immunization environment. I'm using a platform that they call emulated as a service with the university of Freiburg for this windows ninety eight so we're starting windows ninety eight in our in our house are here. Netscape just came up with this is doing is really sort of spinning up an instance on the cloud for us to kind of access this work interactively through, you know, sensually like live video connection. So that's why at the beginning. You saw that. I was able to choose the location of my server because having a low lag time is important to the experience of the work. It's no like a video where you can buffer and have the kind of lag. So these are some very sort of high production value pieces that they made just for one another as the way of kind of getting to know each other and developing into and there's a lot of really rich detail and depth in them. Nice to here. We're looking at aurea who is going to be people sent the picture of herself. And you can most over it. And. Intimate the picture, and you can see the partner underneath. Here's a nice Gothenburg beating heart. So you can you know, it's a step beyond Tinder now. Many years before. Yes. Yes. Way of meeting people and impressing, people the photos or graphics or things like composition that they and I'm also fascinated with the idea that you could like kind of take it in sort of sell it as a work can look in a pistol early novel of the early internet age. Right. And so what we looking for when you were bringing together the show, what was the key conceptual ideas because summer browse talk about the different types of things that you were presenting browser-based versus and which there was Netscape browser. Then there was other during that time period that was the dominant browser actually when we were doing the show. So I should explain that this show comes out of Nefer called net. Art in Thala g which is an effort to retell the history of three one hundred works, right? So in the research of the net art history, we've seen people try and tell a story in book form in different ways. But we wanted to kind of look at the works themselves in what a story emerged from that in almost fragmentary way. And we were inspired by the motto of in solidly film archives here in New York, which has it's sort of a central cinema list walked by. Yeah. It's like an. Credible resource. They put together this list of films in the seventies that they considered to define the art of cinema. So we we know that project has its own problems. But we thought it was an interesting way to look at net. Art, I'm so we did this work online. You can see that and follow dot rice dot org, and you can see the hundred works and like all these different stories about them. There this exhibition brings together sixteen of those and we wanted to like make a best of or a particular time period. But instead to think about what are the problems that come up when you're thinking historically about not art and digital culture. And you know, what are the kinds of questions that we think people should be asking about that? So the works are intimidated to a diverse range of media forms and positions on the question of archiving, and this one in particular is interesting in relation to that. Because it started just as this encounter between people not not something that's intended to last over time necessarily, but then it had this other life through its circulation as kind of you know, a product for sale. But then it went away like artists haven't seen this work in twenty years. Was it for them was it on there? It was. But they weren't you know, they didn't have the kind of emulating in place to. Yeah. They haven't got rid of that, computer. Right. I guess it was two thousand four is the last time they'd seen it before we presented online. Right. It kind of dealt with the question of archives in two ways like one the idea of public circulation being its own form of archiving putting it into people's hands and the other the sort of institutional question of archiving, like how do we resist these forces of technological obsolescence and make things, you know, continue working in an art theme lessons. Right. Absolutely. It was sixteen of this one hundred that are in there the ones that they go back. Explain what is in the hundred hundred works include projects from nine hundred eighty two to twenty sixteen. What's eighty two? What's eighty two? Well, that was Robert Adrian Xs the world's in twenty four hours, which is our oldest work. We have also electric cafe eighty four which is a really nice older project. Both of those works are early networking projects where people were interested in the idea that telecommunications networks were ways of connecting people in and having participatory. It absolutely was electric cuff eighty four is in particular, really fussing that one is from the nineteen Eighty-four Angeles Olympics and was five sites. That were connected. Over sort of early networks, use the community memory bulletin board in order to have people in these like local communities make insure images with each other. And it needs some sort of video writer to entertain them and exchange them back and forth. So they had kind of restaurants to grandpa, basically. Yeah. I mean, they had they had spaces set up in and Koreatown and in Venice. And I think a Mexican restaurant else somewhere in south central away. They had these kind of interesting like really community base spaces, and they had people making, you know, work with these new tools and sharing it, and you know, really kind of anticipating load of the things that would happen. But doing it in a way that was very community focused, right, right? Which is really interesting. I mean, when you saw these things then it was really something because it just didn't exist. It just that. That's now we're so used to these things and how easily we become. To these tools. But at the time, they didn't these things people didn't share things like this. They I remember downloading a book on the internet at a server college. And I kept saying I've downloaded a book, and they were like so and I'm like, you don't even understand what that means. I was I was quite particular about it. I was like this is bigger than you understand. Right. This moment in time. This will be this is like a moment for me at least. So the first work than eighty to work was a similar thing. That was an effort to connect number of sites worldwide. I'm using facts and slow skin TV and early internet. But it was only text base of everything was back then and did the so the idea was they would link up these different sites and kind of share works back and forth going kind of performance. So for each hour of the day, there'd be a different venue, though, it'd be producing and receiving and displaying what survives from that is a lot of documentation that shows conflicts through these very active scenes where people are making drawings and moving around the space and connecting with one another. But. But I think that what it comes down to this idea that like when the network becomes available to you as a possibility, I think that you know, there's a lot of questions like what can this enabled me to do? And for many people. I would argue that one of the first things they wanna do is just kind of connect with one another one another, and that means really creating culture, I think through the network, absolutely. Did you think about how it had done been done previously with other mediums? I mean, the first thing that was first movie that was broadcast heard. It's beautiful film of two men dancing, which is really quite lovely. Or if you know that it's a little tiny film that they made I think it was Edison made it up because they had men in the studio, and they were showing movement. And so it was quite artistic in a way. But did you did you think about how to talk about how different internet art is is it net art or internet art just net. Are I looked the team term net art in your book because it's sort of a more casual and implies like a fuzziness about it that I think is appropriate given the complexity of the internet internet art makes it seem like it's something really specific which is not corrected. The internet is so has so many different forms of net. Art, what does that mean to you? Well, I let you defined it as art that happens on or or through the internet. The choice of the word happens comes from the same source as the title of our exhibition, which is an artwork by an artist to MTA called simple net. Art diagrams. So this is the best explanation. Okay. And it's just a diagram that shows to computers with the line connecting them, and there's a lightning bolt in between them, and the there's a little label that says the art happens here point into the space between the computers and MTA made this work because they wanted to tell people that when they're looking at their net art works. What you see on the screen, isn't Thorpe. It's the exchange. That's the work. It's the dialogue that's high. And so it's not just about the object. But about like what's unfolding through that kind of a moment with a regular piece of art. You just stand in front of it right at it. I'm. Pay with it or something. But there's there's usually little participation corrector you. Yeah. I mean, I think that one of the things that's important about the project that you are starting to refer to as that there is like a longer history of network aren't done goes beyond the internet. I mean, you could argue that the Lumiere brothers actually set up a communications network around the world with their agents that were exchanging these films in five continents within. I think the first two years of the cinema autograph writing invented sny. So networking is actually I think a pretty important part of our, but the computer and the computer network makes that kind of more powerful and in new form of art or new forms of art begin to proliferate because of that technology on artist pushed the internet isn't just an artist on the internet. It's kind of different kind of entity. All right. We're gonna talk about that. When we get back. We're here with Michael Connor. He's the artistic director of resume. They have a show now called the art happens here, and it's about the history of art made on the internet, and for the internet, and and various ways, and we'll talk about that and more when we get back. This is advertiser content. You obviously like listening to podcasts like this one. But what do you do when you want to discover new audio content that matches your interests you can search for whatever you want online by typing keywords into a search engine? But the world of audio is little different all is the only medium so far that was never searchable sharable. This is called Klein, the CTO and co founder of audio burst. This is the first search discovery platform for all your talk context on a daily basis, we read and scan and listen to fans of thousands of sources trying to understand what's going on in the world in every out. So you could ask your smart speaker? What's the latest on baseball and audio Burswood instantly deliver a few short bursts of relevant information from podcast and radio shows, aired even just minutes ago? And that means that audio burst has to listen to and process tons of data. Typical talk officers generates around twenty eight million pieces of mater, they that includes key. Words audio cues. The words itself that's a huge amount of conflict audio I relies on Microsoft, Azure, to produce the best possible. Search results, we're processing millions of minutes of taco you and that requires a very strong backbone, and that's what we're getting from Azure discovered. What your business can build with Azure? Get a new Azure free account at Azure dot com slash trial. As E U R, E dot com slash trial. We're here with Michael Connor. He's the artistic director of resume. We're talking about internet art or net art where there's a show now in New York at the new museum about showing some of these works. Let's about the tools that are used in the the worst that you picked big sixteen works out of a hundred browsers, obviously, the top use tool or of art or because it is the communications vehicle for a lot of things especially in the early internet. I think you know, really when it comes to knit artists using every tool that's connected to the internet and one of the where a lot of Email. Yeah, there's one of the work. So is going to mention in ruins into tools would be blind spot by a Chinese artist to in two thousand eight Google every word in in the mend. Our dictionary. An eighteen hundred pitch dictionary and she weighted towards that were that were censored, and it was kind of like an early stage in that initial moment of Google and China trying to kind of come to a reproche Mon, which of course, is relevant in the present. And he certainly did not come. They did. And then they. Didn't people don't realize Google is twenty six percent of the Chinese search market for a while there. Yeah. I mean, it was it had an important role. And what's fascinating. But that work is that you could say that the form of it is a book, but it wouldn't really have existed without, you know, internet access Google all these other tools come into play. So all of those things are part of the making of that piece of part of the tool set. I would argue and what about Email Email. Okay. So one of the interesting works that uses Email is Mark tribe. Alex Galloway and Martin Wattenberg starry night, which is a great project to talk about because it uses resumes own archive. It's based on resumes. Text base all of the emails that were sent on resumes. List-serve in the ninety s where curated into a special selected archive of the best emails that announced events or offered art criticism. And the text base was this incredible archive, and Mark and other people at rising more interested in offering quick new artistic ways to access its starry night. Wasn't are. Artistic interface to the text base. The took the form of a starry kind of image. When you clicked on each star represents an Email when you clicked on that star. It would bring up a set of keywords, which clicked on the keyword nut art, you could see all of the other emails in the text base were connected by kind of constellation. Right. And you could navigate to all the other emails attached to that QA wonderful says really interesting classic work of Email absolutely of internet aesthetics. And I also think like Email is something that's like so momentary to go back to it is actually really hard as we all know already. Just forget it. It's just hard in. Sometimes maybe wake up in the middle of the night. This is a different way of going back. Yeah. I don't answer Email anymore. Just so, you know, Michael don't send me one. I just don't. I just decided I'm done with it. Just probably a good idea. I mean, it's really a horrifying sounds like you to get my mail like I did not. And they're like I sent it. Unlike you, I didn't get it. You're like a hero to just decided. I I get five thousand miles a day. I just begin with a remote with. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah. That's the only. Yeah. There's a great Nora Ephron essay on this way one hundred years ago. She wrote about being get moving from excitement to Email to nonex-. I mean, other other tools one of them was the Dalai. Clones. I remember that talk about that. Because that's an object. You're using using an object to talk about surveillance, really and other issues around that you have the Dalai cleanser Fantine the deli. Clones because it's creepy and fantastic. This is this is a work by Lynn Hershman Leeson. We included in the exhibition. It's not in the gallery project, actually, because we you know, it doesn't really speak to archiving questions. Holly. Well, I'm always been exhibited recently a couple of times. So we felt also why do you put the Dalai? Dahlie donnelley's. All right, Dolly, well Lynn has been working on the questions of like cyborgs, and how technology would change the human for a long time releasing sweet sixties, right? And so in the ninety s when Dolly the cloned sheep was developed a was sort of inspired by that, you know, she's not like a person that is overly. I would say paranoid about new technologies that might change the definition of what it means to be a human or a living thing she's more enthusiastic, but also kind of questioning so her deli. Clones were a clone of herself and a clone of her alternate persona Roberta Broadmoor, which is this kind of identity. She's developed at a sort of artwork. Yeah. And she used to have projects where you could go to hotel room and like open drawers and see Roberta bright Moore's like stuff and understand her story from king stuff. She got a driver's license as this alter ego. I mean, all these things that just the idea of like up. So she made dolls of herself in of this evil twin as you call it, and no it's an eagles wet. But go ahead move. I don't know if it's evil. It says evil in there too. I. All right. I'll go with that. I'm in dolls are we just say, you know, there's never not an evil twin? Teasing. I can't endorse. The sad. I'm so the dolls were little sculptures that sat in display cases in the gallery each had a webcam in place of one of their eyes. And they each had a website where you could go to their website and see what they were seeing. So there would be displayed in a gallery, and then people on the web could go and look at what the dolls are seeing in the gallery space, and they would upload like it was early webcam. So they would upload every three seconds still image of the calorie space. So it was interesting as a way of thinking about like what like a network vision might be you know, now that we have cameras that are we can call up all around the world. What how does that change our understanding of human vision? And it was thinking about the internet user as a person who could see through the dolls is right. So as you quit through you could actually control the dolls heads telematically from the web browser, and then he would click through and see these different provocations about what it meant to be a person that could see through the network in this way. Right. And also right now, facial recognition surveillance all these issues around this and. Robotics in terms of creating cyborgs is absolutely. I mean, I think that the understanding of what we think of as human is shifting as a result of technology. And you know, this is a project I'm describing from the nineties that was obviously taking up these questions at an earlier moment in that discussion. Which was I think one of the reasons why project this is important to me because these conversations have a history that we can draw on. And I think helped to contextualize where we are now in relation to things like Fisher recognition, right? Did you feel like you stayed relevant to what's happening now? Because all these issues are in these pieces of art that in many ways, lots of different things, whether it's the Dalai clones or other things. One of the principals in netted until she was we wanted to show. The works wondered at times, they can research it on social media, and sort of spark through in conversation. And so, you know, just in terms of resumes and function as an organization, we're always kind of connecting with younger artists by doing interviews in projects, we have a grant program where we give out small amounts of money on the internet for with a very easy applications. So we have like this kind of we speak to public which is made up an of many emerging young artists. And so by recirculating the works. We found that it was sparking these kinds of conversations where people were encountering the works. And kind of being inspired by them in ways that you know, instance, in some cases, we might it. And in some cases, kind of not like this morning. I was just looking well this morning. I was looking at a show at the meagreness museum in Switzerland. And there's a couple of, you know, recent works that our show. In the foreground one by the Chinese artist. Guangyao in the background is a poster from mentioned ninety one or ninety two by Vienna's matrix called the cyber feminist manifesto for the twenty first century. And that was the first week that we presented in theology. And I can't claim that we are the reason that it's there, but I certainly feel like we've put something Ford into the world, and it's starting to circulate on its own in new way as a result. Well, it's interesting because did you magin the people who are making this art at the time thought, it was survive or was it not it was it made not to survive? I mean, do you think people then when you choose to do an internet or a net piece of art? You're making a choice of possibility of I wanna get used ops lessons, but gone like gone. I think that it varies some artists. We're thinking store clear from the very start for many artists. It never crossed their mind. And there's a lot of examples of people who I think didn't realize how touched they would beat to the work that they made sure until it was an accessible to them. And then they've in some cases, experienced. Has kind of like almost like a personal real personal loss. So it does vary. I mean, someone like Mark tribe the founder of resume was thinking about these questions early on. But it was partly because so many artists already begun to lose their work. And and find things were not able to be sustained aid someone ironic the losing of the work because there's there's there's a group just the rain jobs. Just bought it actually up magazine, which creates shows artistic shows a lot of them about a lot of the essays foot, photography discussions and stuff music. And they don't tape them at all they don't preserve them in any way. And that is it when you when you see it, the audience sees it, and then it is gone, and that it's purposefully that way, although they're very active on social media. They're very active. They have California Sunday magazine. Other things the premise is that the art is done and moves along, and that is definitely a kind of aspect of practice to with a conscious decision. Not to hold onto something is really, you know, something that has its own artistic. What he says some of the works in that our intelligence are only presented as kind of documentation. There's a piece that is kind of an interesting one in that respect by Devin Kenny called untitled Klifa, and it's a performance that he did in. I think twenty thirteen in Mexico City, and he was interested in the new me of Trayvon ING, which is like kind of like plinking, but done by what he describes as like, really horrible people. I'm because pretty funding was like lying down with skills and pretending that you were of Trayvon Martin. And which was an internet me. It wasn't ended up. Yeah. I mean, really awful and Devin was like off on. That is awful. But yes, something's very off on the internet. So he performed as he did it his own kind of training experience at this gallery space in kind of you know, was in Mexico City. So it was any different context where people have had their own associations. But he was interested in like embodying this very horrible position that people were taking, and then, you know, just you know, it really kind of existed as a sort of moments in time. I think maybe another work that sort of along those lines is Malaya Othman's thera-, which is an app that she developed that was intended as a kind of anonymous social media project in response to the way that people were feeling so much pressure to brand themselves online, especially around mental health playing fine well on unwind. If you begin tweeting, for example, about your issues with depression might soon, you tracked followers that want to see content about depression, and you understand that when you tweet about depression in a certain way, you might get more likes. So there's a kind of incentive to talk about mental health and a certain way, the becomes part of like, a public persona, and that isn't necessarily productive for someone who's using those tools as a way of actually dealing with mental health like, maybe right? Speaking to your followers, isn't what you need. Maybe we need is release in catharsis sense of human connection. So Malia created a theory as an that was a little bit similar to something like Snapchat, where you could make post that were touched to a map and the. The post would be visible for a certain amount of time. They'd go away. And they were always anonymous and people were using it as a kind of a shouting into the void project to kind of release something they had to get off their chests. My I'm and she did that for awhile. And the, you know, the idea was that the kind of like to post themselves would disappear, but it was very difficult, of course, to make like entire social media platform as an artist that had explicitly sort of indie commercial to know user profiles. No ability to capture data from people. You know? There was no prophet elements to this project at all. So in the end of the pressure. She kind of staged a funeral for the app itself is kind of closure of it. Right. So none of the content is available. The app itself has gone and the project is now at a close data. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the company. She explicitly is not internet company was describing how these companies got started Google and others that a lot of the data. They originally collected was garbage to them. They didn't need it. And it turned. Out to be gold. You know, that they was extra stuff that was part of the search process, and they figured out that actually was valuable. I is there any data projects you think were interesting. The idea of what the date using and abusing of the data. Really? I mean, of course, this is a big conversation among this. It has been for a while. One of the projects is in our gallery show is called lungs by duo called the from the UK called Yoho made up of cram Harwood and Mitsuko Yoko Koji and that project is using database from the nineteen thirties that was actually collected around the workers at a munitions factory in Karlsruhe, Germany by this sort of Nazi officials that men that factories data things like data. Yeah. And it was I guess the database was developed using the punch-card machines that IBM was supplying to nutsy government to that point in time. So I in the project they in the gallery, they used the state of base, and they kind of give a breathing sound each entry in the database, which represents an enslaved worker. So as a way of kind of. Reuniting the people that were suffering under this regime on through the data set that was created to oppress them see idea of kind of software memorial them using sound. And I was interested in this project as a way of thinking about the whole concept of like the database as being something that kind of controls us, but looking further back into its history on and, you know, in a way of getting it, meaning giving it meaning and giving it emotional depth. Absolutely. Because each piece of data is a person in some way, or some piece of person we're here with Michael Connor. He's the artistic director of resume. We're gonna take a quick break again now, and we'll be back talking about we're art on the internet is going and a little bit about stuff that already gets created every day. And if that's art not when we get back. They have a new show at the new museum in New York City. It's called the art happens here and it's about net. Art. Today's show is brought to you by prudential for general knows your finances are deeply personal impacting, your health state of mind, family, dynamic and work. They sent wellness expert Alexandria, drain across the country to uncovered the challenges getting in the way of your financial wellness along the way, she met Americans working hard to juggle their financial commitments see their stories now and learn how prudential can help you achieve financial wellness at prudential dot com slash take it on. We're here with Michael Connor the artistic director of resume. They have a show in your city at the new museum called the art happens here is about net art, and we're talking about a lot you were talking about a little different things that people use in the tools, they use whether it be Email or browsers or flash or various things to create art. Where's it going? Where's art going? You're preserving the ones that created. But even as you speak so much more is being created, right? It's like a constant. And and some of the stuff is is is is like I just went to see about a couple of months ago Carney in arena, which was VR artwork around immigration where you put on the VR you experience being in the desert with immigrants. It was beautiful. There was all this beautiful. Be our art around it. And you physically in a space that you felt cold you walked around without your shoes. It was cool. It was really interesting way to get through the messaging around. The message to the artists wanted to talk about immigration. I thought that was really. Wonderful way to depict that from an artistic point of view how and that was also funded by the rain jobs who is doing a lot of photography art around immigration and things like that. We are things going. What do you think the new technologies? What are you seeing? Yeah. Those are good question. I'm you know, it's also a difficult question. I'm I've been doing this internet art business for good while I have luckily co curator who's more in touch with the newer scenes aria dean, she couldn't be here today. But one of the things that we kind of noticed in doing this project was that there are served distinct shifts that happen on the internet, and one of the recent ones that kind of relates to what you're talking about is the way that artists have retaken a position within gaming, and I think, you know, gaming is beautif-. Yeah. I think that there's been a proliferation of tools that allow for I'm games to be made more easily over the past five years. Let's say or maybe eight at the most, and that's really important because you know, I don't know if there's like a famous, quote where for instance, for couple has talking about how filmmaking will only be an art form. When like the thirteen year old girl can make a movie with her camera and something similar applies in the in the digital realm where you know, when gaming feels too complicated and accessible people can't express themselves to platform as easily right? So, you know, we've had things like really interesting work. I'm on the gaming front one of the works from netted is by an artist that we love from the bay area named porp- and time this is her. This is her project psycho nymph exile. Which is actually a hypertext kind of narrative that I'm brings people through this, computer, generated Windscale and tells this fragmented story and you click on the different you click on the on the text to move through it. So it's actually kind of like a throwback in a way to like earlier forms of net art, but it's bringing it into the unity three d environment. Right, right. And using using as a way to gaming. Way to design and develop games. But go ahead. And so she's creating this kind of game like environment, which is very beautiful. The whole story is about I'm working through trauma and the fragmented nature of the game relates to the way that people experience reality in a fragmented way after a trauma, and and she is using the gaming platform, essentially do that because well, I think because gaming allows for the creation of a kind of speculative reality. I think that she's interested in in the world building aspect of games that through games, you can create a world and in do create. Yes. And so the for her the work is really creating a world where people inexperienced this particular imaginary speculative way of working through trauma. The the world building itself is the kind of artistic project, right? And any other sort of technologies? See promising around VR is obviously we'll VR is quite promising. But I I was going to mention that one of the things that I think artists on the internet are really quite focused on now is there's almost like a learning line between art and non art that I see happening. So in netted intelligent, the west fears their projects like artists who are making a stock photo agency as an artwork and one of my favorites is an artist ruffea Santana, who's using the internet to kind of create a contemporary reparations scheme called payback time. She started this after the election in two thousand sixteen and it was basically like heck time. Hey, black time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it's it was like she was like thinking about the election and how she was seeing like a lot of white guilt being circulated online. And she was like, let's turn this into a resort. So her project is that white internet users can buy meals for blocking Arcus and internet users and she facility. Tate's that? And then so successfully for. For a couple of years. So there's you know Justice like that which are like really material, and they're, you know, they're quite economically oriented in a way, and they're a little bit. Like, it can be difficult to differentiate in the sense between what's art, and what's just thing in the world. So let's just talk about what's it just a thing? Because there's a lot of things that are published in the inner that are quite creative. And you know, what I mean for all the direct that's out there. And there's plenty you can do lots of art about the drek that's on the internet the reactive and quickness of it some of it is just Twitter can be very beautiful in a weird way. Can be funny. It can be moving. Lots of things you see on the net can be like even Tinder has appointed see to it doesn't it? It kind of does. When people pick pictures, you could see artists taking advantage of of all these things Facebook, probably there's probably like a wonderful thing to be done artistically about Facebook. And I'm not here to be you know, to litigate like what's hard. And what's not especially because I agree with you that you know, what internet users do already beautiful. Yeah. Some of despite the best efforts of. Jack corner whoever else. Yeah. And I think that this thing should be sort of understood as working the the kinds of work that I try and champion and that we work often with that resum. It's not like an artist at steps back in like peaks paints a picture of what's already happening like positioning, the artist outside of it has the observer that privilege. Has a privilege position, but artists that are like in that mix themselves, and that the work functions in that in that kind of culture on and then in that digital culture that it's kind of keep we engaged with it that it's of digital culture and night, something distinct, and what about commenting on digital Coulter like the screen time and addiction and things like that. Because one of the things is you're consuming this over screens. And of course, there's all the countries around screens due to our society and art has always talked about how things whether it's cars or television or something affects us there's been lots of art on those issues is that something you think will be part of it or or what these they're using mediums that could be damaging to the society large and things like that. I mean, I think that the question of like screen time is a complicated. One. You know, I was recently reading a statistic that eighty percent of white users say that social media is a distraction from the important things in the eighty percent of black users think that social media is the way that important issues reach audiences that wouldn't otherwise be in the symmetry. That's the quick I. Alarming. I think we should be careful about thinking that social media is bad because we're experiencing negative news on it or contact like I mean, really, but all of these things surface and artists work, you know, and like we every year, we run a micro grant scheme in the summer. So people can apply with like their random idea for small grant on from resume. And I think through that we really surfaced like what people are interested in making work in response to now. And certainly like one of the things that I think has been emerging as just, you know, imagining we're at this point with the internet does show signs of kind of fracturing. I'm you know, we're starting to see things like Russia doing an experiment where they're trying to disconnect from the internet day and said, you know, the DNS system the international consensus that's required to keep that coming. We're seeing things like experiments with mesh networking or USB sticks. And these kinds of things with the US well in in Cuba, they run the kind of a massive media sharing not work. USB called Bill pocket they seminar, and and I think those are the kinds of things that people are thinking about now because the idea of like an always entree USB sticks. And there's also kind of commercial venture around it too. So it's trading. They were telling me about it. Yeah. I I mean, I, and I think that people look to those examples and think like, you know, we shouldn't make the assumption that we will always have this kind of freely accessible global cloud infrastructure that we can tap into at any moment. It's almost like we're coming to the end of the moment where we had that like cloud infrastructure golden age, and it always had edges to one of the works and the show is called net art Latino database, and we worked with the artists that created this back in early two thousands. And when we are presenting one of the works that he chose as part of Newton told you with us. He didn't like the idea of presenting it only an emulation because there's no cloud server located and whatnot America that run the kind of. I mean, listen that has tried you at the start of the show. So he made this beautiful walk through. Video of the work that you can like watch a much slower connect Sharon have kind of good experience. Right. Right. And so that kind of thinking like that, you know, it's kind of always existed, and I think it's maybe coming into view now in a new way as he's kinds of resorts pressure, absolutely. Whether we're going to be able to access it. That is true. You could do it in a different. You can present it in different because a lot of these. I they must be dying like other people use all the latest tools. Like right do pick things and things like that. There's always gonna be are created in analog. But what how do you look at the finish up talking about the the the difference between analog art and digital art? How do you look at that? Is that shift is a break or or you could or not or or not at all? Because a lot of analog art is now all over the internet. Like, I was thinking of this thing that's going on with her vacuuming stuff and. It's every like they're using the internet to push out. Lots of art and lots of stuff is being preserved online everything from the Dead Sea scrolls to you know, there's all kinds of things that's not art, but it's being preservation as happening on the internet in ways that we couldn't have imagined. Is there a break between the two of them or do you see where do you see that going? I mean, I see booth continuity and change and certainly in this project, you know, thinking about how networks have always been a part of our making has tried to inform. We have that in former thinking, but the computer is really a transformative tool, and I think it's you know, it's like that thing is famous kind of an IRA, quote, you know, that people guns don't kill people people kill people. But of course, the reality is. With people with guts, exactly what people plus gun is different than just an artist's puts computers different than just artists. And I think that I'm know understanding that there is a kind of material difference that happens when I'm when work is made in this way and circulated in. This way is important to thinking about how how does sustain that work overtime and preserve. And do. You think artists are relying more on these digital tools, even are even and everybody's used in some ways using these digital tools is it changed the way we think of creation of art up -solutely at the idea that you can make work on canvas. For an online audience is such an interesting one and artists have thought through carefully. I'm one of the works and edited intelligibly by Artie veer can't is called image objects. It's a series of works that there are two dimensional pieces that will sculptures when they're photographed and circulated online. So they're meant to a different for a web visitor and a gallery visitor. And this was already a way of thinking about like how do I use the gallery space has like a network environment? Presenting work for people all over the world to look at. I would argue that the Funke Trump performance of someone vacuuming is the performance at staged for the internet. And that results in a different kind of work being commentary, everything part of it, the commentary the outrage over the delight over it. It's really it's an interesting swell to me. It's all in that are now it's all that out now. All right. I want to end on that. Why do you imagine a day when there's just not everything will be in this sort of holographic? You know? You could see you could see where it could go. It could bring more art people because they get to see more or it could create this sort of strange like you what happens the gallery's going forward. The physical galleries. We'll go have surprisingly listed a lot of shocks already. That's technology has changed. I think that, you know, at the moment, the there's still something different that you get from standing in the space with people and moving your body around that you are not getting other places. I imagined that in the future. The real question will be. Not that those places won't continue to exist or won't continue to be important, but is through becomes a question of access because it easier and the feature to visit spaces virtually or does the apparatus need, visit them virtually become hard to get you know, I really think that wealthy you don't think. So there you go. Everyone. I remember suitcase telephones now everybody has one I think that like the question of what is consciousness or something which is something that some of the artists, and that are intelligent things through is going to you know, is going to mean that we have work can address us in very different ways than you've seen so far. Yeah. Those kinds of like refigure unconsciousness through technology. New new ways of accessing the brain directly had side of the sensorium this things will allow for different artistic experiences net. And maybe even gotten at a haptic touch very hot. It's gonna be wild wild wild. This is riveting and I'd love to talk more about I'm gonna come. Visit the show I urge you all to go look at it online. It's at the new museum. If you're in New York City, the art happens here. Thank you so much for coming on the show, and thanks to all of you for listening. You can find more episodes of Rico decode on apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts. And please tell a friend about the show. You can follow me on Twitter at Carris wisher, Michael where can people find you in this show online, but it can find the online show at consolidated dot org. They can you me at Michael dot, Connor resum dot org. They should buy the book. Okay. You displaying someone this on Instagram using all the social media when we present Newark's authority, which continues through that can see those on our Instagram account, which has resumed dot ORG spelled out or Twitter dot com. Right. Also apply for grants if they help our this summer. We'll have the mecca grant call coming up. So Senator mailing lists to hear about that. Great. Thank you so much now that you're done with this go check out our other podcasts, Recode media and pivot. You can find those shows wherever you found this one thanks for listening to this episode of Rico decode and thanks to our editor Joe Robbie and our producer. Eric johnson. I'll be back here on Wednesday. Tune in then. Hey, Rico, decode listeners, I'm excited to share that I'll be back at south by southwest this year, if you're going to be there or live in the area, you're invited to attend the deep end by boths media. That's our experiential space at the Belmont in Austin, Texas, which is just a ten minute walk from the Austin convention center from Friday, March eighth through Sunday March tenth will be hosting a series of live podcasts musical spotlights eater approved food and much more. I'll be there along with Peter Kafka, and the host of the verge cast, and vox is the weeds. Plus, we'll have a bunch of special guests like Livia wild Arlan Hamilton, Mark Cuban, Bill Simmons and a couple of other surprises admission is free. But space is limited. So you have to register to attend. If you're interested, please RSVP at vox media, events dot com slash s X s w once again, that's vox media events dot com slash s X S W admission is free. But space is limited. So don't wait. I hope to see you there.

director Michael Connor New York City Google Facebook Netscape internet archive Mark tribe Netease Kurt vox media Dalai Rico Risa Karen Swisher president Mexico City McCain
RV Podcast #282: A reality check about the fulltime RV life

The RV Podcast

58:15 min | 1 year ago

RV Podcast #282: A reality check about the fulltime RV life

"Hi everybody this week on the veep. Our guest a reality check about the fulltime. RV Life that lifestyle for us for a lot of our friends. It's it's tiring it's exhausting. Wears you down and you don't necessarily realize that early on because it's all very exciting early on but over time the more you do it the more you realize realized this is really starting to wear on you. And it's simple things you take for granted it's things like knowing how to get from Point A. Point B. in any given location every time we go. Oh Wow we don't know where we are. We don't know the traffic patterns you know. We don't even know where the grocery store is much less. Wear anything in the group zillow travelers. It's time for another episode of the RV. PODCAST answering your questions. Sharing tips suggesting great trips in off the beaten path adventures and always staying on top. Lots of the RV lifestyle news you need to know about with great interviews and insight industry information. Here's your host award winning journalists Mike and Jennifer Linlin. Welcome everybody to another edition of the RV podcast where we tell stories of freedom and fun and adventure through RV travel and no matter what kind of an Rv you have. Whether it's a motorhome metabol- trailer a tent if you're just daydreaming about getting an RV someday this show always for you because here we talk about getting out there enjoying God's amazing creation meeting interesting people and Boone docking discovering fun places using using the right gear in technology to enhance the RV lifestyle so welcome. We are very honored that you chose to put us in your ears this week. Well hello everybody and welcome to episode two hundred and eighty one of the RV. PODCAST being released on Wednesday February twelfth. Twenty twenty this week. You'll meet Kevin and Laura young couple who've been fulltime time our viewers for nearly five years now and are known for telling it as it is. We'll have a great discussion. Also talked candidly about why so many many full timers come off the road not lasting nearly as long as they had hoped plus we've got. RV News your questions. And a great off the beaten path. report from the BURKITT's gets but I my lifelong traveling companion and my bride Jennifer. Who just happens to be celebrating her birthday today? Happy Birthday my dear. Well thank you Mike. Well it's another year. Yeah glad I'm still here. Yeah that's what you begin to say after after another birthdays. Don't we well. We're having a great time and it is always fun to join you on Wednesdays and we're still celebrating celebrating a major event. We reached one hundred thousand subscribers for RV lifestyle channel and that was very exciting theft. We that happened Sunday tonight during our live broadcast on Youtube on our regular. Ask US anything program. Actually we had it Right there and then we came back We we we did the hour long show and we and we said well. We're I don't know thirty or forty short and we came back an hour later and we made it and we actually were right there here when we turned and went live and it was so much. Fun Yeah Super Exciting. Because we've been looking at that number for a long time. Not I mean. It's a nice thing and they give you a plaque. Yeah I don't know if we'll be able to get the black because we're going to be on the road I'm underwear plaques GonNa add on our have our mayor mail held and who knows Because I imagine they're very efficient and getting the blackout. But it's a big deal you know in the in the world to get one hundred thousand and my goodness We just thank you. if you're one of our subscribers thank you not hey cokes. Go sign up Lincoln show notes for you and thousand or well. Keep the goal actually. I'm moving a goal now over to instagram. It's we have been having a really good time on Instagram Sharing our pictures and going on live as often as we can and so I think our next goal is to reach ten thousand subscribers on our instagram page and you can follow us there at RV lifestyle Mike RV Lifestyle. Mike just follow us there and Jennifer and I both running around taking pictures assures and putting little notes up throughout our travels and That's what That's our next goal I think and the into keep growing you too and we've got some ideas and and We have really enjoyed being able to Tell those RV travel stories that we do through video and through the interviews like our interview of the week. Yeah this week with the folks at chapter three travels They will be They'll be there Kevin and Laura our guest this week. We have a video for them as well as the the podcast interview and and it's fun to use Youtube but next goal ten thousand subscribers on instagram and follow us there if you haven't already at RV lifestyle. Mike and we're home in Michigan after a really exciting week in Arizona. That was such a fun trip. It was we if you follow the podcast. That's where we came to you from last week. And if you watch your son Youtube we've got the first of a couple of videos from Arizona that up on the Youtube Channel. RV lifestyle and we were camping in courtside. We've never been there and all of our years never thought we wanted to tell you the truth. We looked get all those crowded pictures that we see from courtside. We said that's not for us but then We actually we had some time on our hands. We had an extra week that opened in our schedule schedule and we considered a couple other places but we cashed in frequent flyer. Miles flew out there borrowed an RV. and Wow why haven't we done that before and I'm so oh glad that we had that experience out. Zona there was. It was fun camping in the desert and the whole thing was crowded at all. I mean the big crowds outs had gone home the end of January so we were there really on February first and second and there were a lot of people in town but the desert is so big the B. l. emlyn surround quartzite that this plenty of wide open spaces just gorgeous then we had a great adventure. We went further south than Discovered the Cova for National Wildlife Refuge. And we've got a video coming out Saturday. We'll show you that you don't WanNa miss that one. That was fun. We had some mystery tree in some adventure and that will be coming up and then we went from there down to Tucson for A. It's not quite a trade show. Although we SORTA was is it was more of a of a gathering the desert by a bunch of RV Industry folks and some Other bloggers and youtubers and influencers influencers as they call us. I think I'm starting to resent that term influence her. That means that it sort of implies that you're doing this just just to influence people that you can be bought. Does it ever occurred to you. Well I think ambassadors your bought well yeah ambassadors. Yeah where you're kind kind of kind of sponsored and I don't know I'm just feeling more and more loyalty towards the audience rather than sponsors and I don't know I mean we have delighted. I did have sponsors particularly on the podcast but But our loyalty our first loyalty is to you our listeners and our audience and I guess yes I'm going to have to come up with another another name for us. we're just RV lifestyle storytellers. Maybe we'll just call ourselves that. Yeah but we're back home in Michigan after after that great week in Arizona and We're about ready to hit the road again and it's it's fun it's fun being back home. It's feels kind of like we're on vacation occasion except we gotta finish up our taxes. Get that to an accountant. And then then what do we do then. Then we're going to take off for Florida where we're finalizing research and photography for our next seven day adventure guides and one to Florida's east coast another devoted to just the keys and those two will join our already published Florida's seventy adventure guides to Florida's Gulf coast just Florida's just such a popular. RV destination in that we feel. We need three guides to cover it all and we're going to hit the road next week to finish up the next two books which should should come out about next month. So they'll give us. Yeah I think we're kind of looking at it End of February first of March. So there's so many places that so many snowbirds it's I think the number one Destination for snowbirds after that Zona probably but particularly Florida where we will be Hanging out at the the East Coast the Gulf coast the keys. And we're GONNA do books on all three of those like ten cents already. The Gulf coast run is out there. But you can pick up the other two They'll be out Very very shortly so I can't wait to that we've got lots of places we WANNA do. We were going to do just the Gulf the Atlantic coast and the keys. But there's so much to see in those areas that we decided to do one just on the keys as well so and we really liked doing this seven day adventure guides e books because they can be published so much faster than a traditional book and they can easily be updated without long printing delays. And we've got six of them out there right now covering covering various various regions of the country and you can find the met. RV LIFESTYLE DOT com slash books. This part of the podcast brought to you by dish outdoors outdoors. And what a great service that is for our ears and it's made really with our viewers particularly in mind because with this outdoors. You pay as you go. Oh and you can get hd satellite television in your RV wherever you're camped easy to setup gear. You do not have to have a long term contract attract you do not have to have a home contract for example you have unjust dish outdoors for your RV and pay it month by month or seasonally harvey you want to do it. They have some. I'm great Great deals on bundled equipment just for our our listeners to the podcast We have the HD satellite receiver. They call the wally very small compact and It works seamlessly with their new dish. Playmaker Portable Satellite Antenna normally. Those two are sold in a bundle for three forty eight but if you use the coupon code. RV lifestyle when you check out you can get the whole thing for two ninety eight instead of three forty eight. So use that coupon Japan code you can find out all about it by going to our Our website special link which is R. V. Lifestyle Dot com slash dish. Mike Scott News straight US inside information trends that shape the arty lifestyle. Unusually ardine use of the week. This is a story that I think a lot of you out there. Want listen up and pay attention to because I think this national park is on on a lot of different people's bucket list so Alaska's cat mine. National Park is taking comments on a proposed rule to require your permits for those seeking to wander about the Brooks River corridor a popular place for watching the famous brown bears. The permits are in response ons to a growing concern about the number of visitors. Getting too close to the bears. The park is worried. The bears will lose their fear of people and wants to avoid and having to put a bear down. The park is also considering expanding. Its camping to up to fourteen days and permitting e-bikes we have a really interesting interview we did on the podcast sometimes spat sometime back with arranger out there at cat my national Parka and we'll put a link to that in the show notes. RV LIFESTYLE DOT com slash. Two Eighty. One scroll down the news of the week section there and you can you can find it. Oregon State Parks Set a record in the number of campers last year. The state is experienced absolutely incredible growth in camping for about a decade. Now what what right when after the recession and the RB rebe boom started. That's when everybody notice it but particularly Oregon and last year reported Just shy of three million camper nights at is fifty six state campground setting a new record for the for the park system there. So the trend of more campers showing up also they said on federally managed lands in Oregon and they're celebrating that but with that comes a lot of demands for infrastructure. And that's a story. I think you'll see being played out across the The Nation as a state parks and federal campgrounds national parks try and meet the big demand in camping. That is coming with so how many people getting into the RV lifestyle if you are planning to camp at any Pennsylvania's state parks this year. And you smoke or vape. Better listen up up. The state has a new law that prohibits smoking within thirty feet of a playground and that includes one hundred thirty five location in the states. It's one hundred. Twenty one parks signs are going to go up. Detailing the new rule by Memorial Day. Good for them. I agree one hundred percent on that one Interesting story in North Carolina. Eight people three dogs had to be rescued from their campground at the Dan River Campground. In North Carolina. A rushing water swept through the site in some flooding. That happened when heavy rains swept through the area over the weekend and it's a good reminder. We'll put a Lincoln the shots to that story but it's a good reminder that when you are camping no matter where you are be aware of the weather and be aware of where you should go if you need to find shelter outside of your RV and if you want more information on these RV news stories or any of the other topics we talk about on this week's podcast check check out the show notes page we have on our RV lifestyle blog just go to RV lifestyle dot com slash two eighty one again that's RV lifestyle dot com slash two eighty one. I wonder how many people because we have all these different platforms. Do we have the Youtube Channel. We have the podcast and I wonder how many of you also know about our blog. That's what really started us all off on this adventure of telling these stories of funding adventures to our travel Our blog is RV. V LIFESTYLE DOT COM. We have these stories up every day and we have a new. RV lifestyle story up new content every single day of the week. So if you have not been over to the blog Check it out lots of really great resources this little search button up at the top you can search for a topic and find stories. Go back now for over eight years. That's when we started this eight years ago. Hey News of the week. Section is sponsored by Rad Power Bikes Rad. Par Bikes are America's number one e bike brand. Ucla if you go out to any campground now any place where our viewers gather. There's somebody there chances for sure That have have An hour power bike and read par bike for recites the number one quality they offer direct to consumer pricing. Which means that you can get your bike for about half the cost of comparable bikes on the market because rabbi steals directly with you? There's no middlemen in no retail chain. That they gotta maintain if you mentioned. RV lifestyle check out getting additional seventy five dollars off. Plus of course you get free shipping number of different models all go between twenty in forty miles on a single charge. All can go as much as twenty miles an hour with zero peddling or you can use pedal assist as well. You got to check it out yourself. use coupon Japan Code. RV lifestyle and get an additional seventy five dollars off and just check them out at RV at Rad power bikes dot com. That's their website Rad. POWER BIKES ACHES DOT COM questions. You've got Mike and his network of RV. Reporters have the answers. Here's one of our questions of. Yeah okay Couple of different sources for these questions this week because I know you can say we have so many platform so I kinda jump around this one from some are. RV lifestyle facebook group and It comes from A listener named Kathy. And she says I'm new to our Wien question if if we encounter snow covered roads in a freak snowstorm will a twenty six foot. Classy handle it. Okay While we were in a a twenty five foot Class C and we have encountered that numerous times sketchy and yes it does handle it. You know but there's always some general will cautions involved like if you can't see don't drive pullover if it's a blizzard that makes sense if he can't go wrong if you follow that advice l. otherwise you can drive. Yeah that's a question as they said it came from our facebook group. And that's what I love about our facebook because as I check that now there were something like twenty seven different comments too. Kathy's question and let me just give you a couple of the answers that other our viewers shared on our lifestyle facebook group. Kevin or Gary Kramer says just go slow the way to the. RV will help if you feel it getting unstable. Just wait it out until they start laying salt good advice That's Sir always what we say you if you can't see don't go if it's Starts to snow. And you're not sure slow down slow down a little bit Kevin Horn says Classy should handle snow just fine unless it's very deep snow but watched the wind if Wendy outweighed awhile wind affects visibility snow cover traction and stability driving being in windy. Snowy conditions is not fun. We have driven in a blizzard. The in a in within a it was a classy actually last About a year ago right. Now Oh come in to North Dakota and we pulled off One of the interstates there and it was a full fledged planes blizzard and and A couple of hours after they had shut the freeway down. That's what we got off. Shut down the interstate and a couple hours later there's eight foot snowdrifts but The wind is is is a big thing. Let's see rick. Orenburg senior says driving slow is always best. It's good to know your route. Avoid sudden turns stops or acceleration since the inertia of motion is magnified. Beyond what grip your tires may have on the driving surface. Quick moves costs skidding and sliding thing fish tailing and Let's see one more Here's Bob Paul. Who says you have two things to consider off the top? The weight can keep you stable. That's true we have found that very true and all of our. RV's the weight when the vehicle breaks loose on the road service. Maybe a large problem compared to smaller vehicles. Watch your speed and adapted to current road conditions. If you air do it by going slower make sure your tires are in good shape before attempting it and when on your breaking just remember it takes longer distance and don't slam on the brakes Let's just go easy on the pedal so those are some of the answers. And if you're not a part of our facebook just go over there and you can just go to RV lifestyle dot com slash community. And you should be able to find it. I'm sorry Ari lifestyle dot com slash facebook RV LIFESTYLE DOT com slash facebook. And you can join our facebook our lifestyle group on lifestyle group on facebook and you can see how many of our folks out there almost up to wherever twenty nine thousand people on just that group alone so it's pretty good all right. Here's another question and this one. He comes to us from our lifestyle YouTube channel. And it comes from a viewer named Richard who says you have speaking of John in in our unity. RV Unity Leisure twelve and unity. Says you have a three way fridge. Wouldn't you prefer twelve volt compressor fridge that would give more capacity and eliminate the need to start the night before it also means less need to level rig fewer propane refills unless fire risk modern batteries and solar systems. Mm should handle the load. The nor cold ones also have a night setting that decreases nocturnal power draw. Assuming you're not opening the fridge at night. I'm frankly puzzled by some manufacturers. The factors that are clinging to propane fridges even in high end coaches. And that's I think what we have is a pretty high end coach and frankly we have had absolutely no problems with our fridge which is a three way dometic refrigerator a propane it works with propane Yaps It works when when we're plugged into shore power generators running. That's one hundred twenty volts and it works on twelve volts. So here's the thing and you don't have to have it perfectly level level anymore some of the earlier ones old. RV's yeah you had to be almost complete level ours. We've never had a problem Besides that we have automatic leveler so when we stopped we always level. But but here's the thing about the the the twelve volt compressors you've one source one source that's it of power for it and if you have something go wrong with your batteries if they run out of juice if you're in solar and there's no sir no son if it's the wrong time of year and your north and the sun is this week your batteries aren't GonNa last You lose that you're gone in our case you know we if if we're plugged into a into a campground it's automatically on one hundred twenty volts if we unplugged it automatically goes to the The propane system and if we should run out a propane it would switch over to the twelve volt system so we don't lose the cooling I couldn't be more happy frankly. And it's a large over six cubic foot refrigerator. Hear that we have and so we see no need no need at all to to change the refrigerator I really like three way in just three different ways of making sure it always works. Hey Do you have a question fellow travelers voice featured on the RV podcast questions or comments sending audio file to Mike Armie lifestyle dot com or better yet use our RV podcast voicemail number. Five eight six three seven two six nine nine zero five eight six three seven two six. It's nine zero. We want to hear from you. Call five eight six three seven to sixty nine nine hundred as part of the podcast brought to you by battle born batteries makers of quality safe reliable lithium batteries that can be installed in just about every. RV We had some fun times with Dana's and Sean from battle born batteries last week at that industry event we covered in Tucson. Both of them were out there there and battle born batteries. I mean they are taking the RV industry by storm. We saw some amazing unit. Some of them with as many as ten different battle born batteries that could power small all city with all of that we have two of them in our RV and could not be more pleased Battle born has become the standard really for those looking in for a quality better performing lithium batteries. Lithium does so much better performance. They charge faster. They charged fuller. They're longer lasting. Their maintenance is free And the team at battle born no matter what kind of an Rv you have class a Class C B van travel trailer cab over Camper Toya Hall or whatever it is. Don't worry they are experts in all kinds of RV's how to Hook up those battle bornes they can match your lithium power system with the right cabling. Converters vertes chargers solar controllers as well. We have been delighted with the battle born system that we put into our RV. Last summer we rely on it for our boondock adventures and we want to send you to more information about it. Just just learn about it if you don't have lithium you've always wondered about it. Go to the battle born site and you can get directly only to it by going to RV lifestyle dot com slash lithium. That's RV lifestyle dot com slash lithium damn time now for the RV podcast interview of the week interesting entertaining and helpful information about the RV lifestyle. Here's my tweet this week's interview Jennifer. I follow a lot of youtube. Channels a lot of blogs and this week I am really excited to bring you the couple behind behind one of our absolute favorite. RV blogs the blog is called chapter three travels and this young couple Kevin and and Laura have written and chronicled their adventures on the road in just a marvelous way one of the things so that they have talked about recently has has to do with the sudden influx of instagram photos these glamorous photos that depict the RV lifestyle and romantic romantic Kennedy adventurous ways. Other is a lot of fun to the lifestyle. Obviously we're all. We're all enjoying it. But don't trust the hollows instagram photo especially when you see scantily clad people up on the roof of their. RV Doing Yoga poses doesn't happen never have. We seen that in nine years of travel. But there's other things to talk about two or example What happens to most fulltime our viewers fulltime are being has a relatively shorter lifespan? Lifespan than you'd think many of the people who set off on the road don't stand the roads or nearly as long as they perhaps hoped when they started did so in our interview. We're going to touch on all of this stuff and also the ask the question about when is it time to perhaps come off the road or to change your. RV lifestyle travel so that you have a home base instead of being full-time if you've ever thought of being a fulltime veer I think you're gonNA find this interview Berry very interesting and you're really going to enjoy meeting Kevin and Laura from chapter three travels. Well Kevin and Laura Join US right now from there are and you guys are down in Florida someplace are you not we are. We are up near Pensacola at the moment Oh my Gosh Will be down there actually in about a week. So we're we're looking forward to it. How's the weather I? It's been great last couple of days. Gone a little rainy many but not too terrible we do love the Emerald Coast. I'll tell you it's favorite. Well let's start by introducing you guys to our audience a little bit and maybe you could explain what chapter three means and how you came about with chapter three travels of well the name kind of came from from me looking back on my life and realizing that it had kind of evolved into chapters. The first chapter was growing up in then going to college in Washington D. C. Ian into our that chapter of my life into chapter two which was going to law school. On very first day of law school. I met Kevin who sat next to the in class and weakland together together ever since so we went to school together. We had our legal careers together. Did that whole chunk of time together and then we decided to take a career break and travel for some period of time. which is what we're doing now? So this became through chapter three. And we'll figure out what chapter four is on the line and talk about How you travel? How long you've been on the road and now what What you see is the as the benefits of this This And I don't want to say nomadic lifestyle always pies to me like there's no roots and your roots. Your home is like they park it but talk about your lifestyle and And help us understand you guys a little more. So we've been on the road good for what about three and a half years now since about the end of two thousand sixteen Started doing this really just to see the country You know we want to go to places that we haven't been because we're both kind of from the East Coast for the most part and want to get out to west coast and see some of the national hearts and things Out there So we pretty much try and Spend about ten days a two weeks at any given place And keep keep moving so to speak In a big part of our decision making what was we had a dog and we want to go supreme because traveling And we wanted to travel As economical fashion as also are being at some point. I read something about our being in a started looking into. It seemed like a great way. uh-huh trouble economically and gone. See The national park soon. Remember seeing. That's fun so neither of you were our fears percents before this this really is this your first time are being never been in an. RV never grow RV. Nothing until we decided to do this we did we. Did you camp you know tent camping. And you know. Get Out and hike in those types of things but it had never been arguing. Well one of the the X one basket scattered and hope for the fast and it worked out pretty well as you know. Many other people are dreaming about doing this. And one of the things as I said in the introduction that I have just so enjoyed about reading chapter three travels in your blog is the the the brutal honesty at times times that you give to the lifestyle but always in a optimistic way of fun way. I WANNA start by by kind of a reality check to all of those who got the RV bug through instagram photos. Let's talk about those for a second. There are some Accounts there are only handful of 'em really But they are all over the place and if you look under certain hashtags you'll see lots of pictures by these accounts may kind of glorify and traumatize the argue lifestyle Tend to show. These dreamy. sunsets needs. He's picture-perfect locations and Aleve out a lot of the reality So I wrote a post. Basically having some fun with what their version of reality versus what the real version of reality is basically just marketing at this point. So yeah and that's really what those posts ours marketing marketing post. But let's let's we did have some fun a lot because I read yours. We had been saying for years. I don't know anybody who stands on on top of their RV and does yoga poses except when we had that we are out in the desert last week. I knew I'd be interviewing you. And and so I actually climbed up there and shot a panoramic shot with the camera but then Jennifer. Samis we gotta do so. She gets the and people thought like it was perfectly normal on never done that. That's not the best place in the world to do a yoga clothes and it's particularly like the ones we you see on instagram. The people doing these yoga poses. And they they don't have much clothes on. Have you ever seen this anywhere. No shockingly in all its hi. We're not a single time. We looked outside and seeing somebody standing on the country called the police person first and then you mentioned we. We talked about him being marketing but they really are people. I think look at them. They get excited about the you know the dream of RV lifestyle. But they're all in these. You know well lit shots in these perfectly pristine. RV's no white seems to be the big color. I don't know why it's not a really good color for an RV inside it is not is not now because it shows everything all the dirt. You're you're living in the dirt basically and I bring it in with your dogs bringing it in with you now and it's not the easiest color to keep playing. The manufacturers actress love Beige Beige. so much and everything around. And I think you you phrased it a Bays base and as a couple of shades of Brown. We'll Lincoln the description below here to to that post because it really as a great post and it's it's hard to do justice to the the silliness sometimes of the marketing but on a larger scale We talked about so many people wanting to RV to get out there. Sell everything in gold. See the country and that is fun. It's an it's for some people but the reality of it is there. There is a cost to all this thought. Maybe you could talk about that and also address the issue of when it's it's time to start planning to come off the road You guys obviously have given some thought to that. Because you wrote so eloquently about it. Yeah I think you know. There's a lot of caveats that need to be built into this discussion. You know we've been consistently moving for three and a half years the longest we've ever sat. One place was two months so there are a lot of people out there who RV in a completely different way. They sit somewhere for three months six months at a time they might have a home base. So I'm not not talking about those folks because that's very different when I'm talking about are folks like us who every week every two weeks on someone now and that lifestyle for us in for a lot of our friends. It's tiring it's exhausting. Wears you down and you don't necessarily realize early on because it's all very exciting early on but over time the more you do it the more you realize this is really starting to wear on you and it's simple things that you take for granted it's things like knowing how to get from Point A.. To point being any given location every time we go out. We don't know where we are. We don't know the traffic patterns. We don't even know where the grocery store is much less. Wear anything in the the grocery story. Is You know if we have. A dog has gone sick a lot last year. You know. Every time he gets sick. We've gotta find a vet. It's not just going to the Badin. I'm trying to figure out whatever needs to pay for. Its yet find who you can trust. And then you gotta go in and explain his whole background and all of is is veterinary records in succeed in everything just heats longer. Everything's more process and you're constantly stabbing around in the dark. Hoping for the best in that. Ah where's it out. Yeah so we have all of your normal life stuff just all of your normalized stuff takes longer because it's fish when you live in a single given place you you have your vet who knows all the records value dog. You know where your grocery store is in where the items are when you need to pick up something fairly only mundane so you. It feels at times inefficient and difficult to get just normal everyday life it. It's been described by some kind of decision overload as everything is you have to make a decision and described that really. Well that that's definitely true too when it comes to the Lord does The planning and a ground reservations and given the number of people that are out there are wanting to do this and are doing it now. Getting more difficult to actually get into campground. SO HE S. She's an. She has to sit there and try. Fair what route. WE'RE GONNA go if we want to see where to stay right. You read reviews campgrounds and try and figure out so you got that sometimes. Having too many choices makes making a decision so when you guys started you obviously know all have met a lot of other. The people who are out there as fulltime Arbor's how many stay on the road I have you identified kind of a life span of fulltime are being. So that's it's interesting point. We've met a ton of people on the road with met really great friends And there are a lot of people that I've I've connected with Through Social Media and at some point you realize disappear. Whatever happened those people so I don't know what happened but I know the people that we have really established relationships with? I would say a good a half have at least drop down to part time. They may have land they may have set up these somewhere or they may have come off the road completely On we've been on for years with the people of a half have disappeared. Started around when we did. You meet those outliers. You meet folks who've been on the road of her eight or ten or fifteen years but it's rare and and again to to kind of be clear we're talking about a consistent moving schedule ten days to two weeks at a given place you know. We've met a lot of people who still say. Hey we still time a day set somewhere over the winner for four months and then travel a little bit during the summer or or spring and then sit somewhere in the summer or you know a couple months and do think that's Different having the stability in a given place over three months or whatever do all that life stuff that no I have. I have to kind of laugh because we are beginning right now. Our Ninth Year of of this. We're three-quarter timers. That's what we kind kind of sometimes a little bit more patchy has done a little more. But you know the longest Jennifer I've ever stayed in any one place has been about five days so I am tired. And I it. Your co- your your your blog posts so resonated with us because mm-hmm it isn't the big things about our V.. Travel you know like living in a small space together or you know having breakdowns or things break Somebody described in our Vida. Says you know it's a it's a home going down the road with constant Six point two earthquake it's experiencing. It's the things break but it wasn't that at all it was just the things that you just identified. Where are we and how do we? How do we feel comfortable in an area that we've never visited before and I wonder if you have some advice one for full timers about when it's time maybe to think about coming off the road and then I'll turn it around and advice for those who are thinking about selling everything in jumping off into full time travel you know? I don't know if there's any one set of factors that are going to happen for you for us. We just started to realize that it was becoming overly really stressful Things were just not as fun as they had been in. We were spending more time being stressed out in irritable then and we should be on. We're living this great dream lifestyle doing what so many people want to do and yet it was starting to feel overwhelming. was starting to feel like too much. So you know we're actually GONNA do a little experiment just in about a month we're going to rent an AIRBNB are Armant For two months just take rate from the road just to live a normal house warm legislation and not have to consistently move and take the breakthrough. See how we feel about it So you know. That's a possibility you don't have to go all Orlando all at the same time. Maybe try sitting one place before making that decision. But you know I think when it when it starts to feel L. Like more of a Chore Than Something That's enjoyable. Maybe it's time to make a change when you're when you're not having fun anymore right. I mean and it's not that we're not having is just you know you have to weigh a you know more like a Chore Than It is having on one versus the other guys left pretty high stress jobs jobs as attorney and I want to talk about the good side of it. How did The RV lifestyle. Did it decompress you or did you find you brought that that same drive and constant Stimulation that comes from. You know a a busy law profession How how did the RV lifestyle law affect you guys when you started Something you know. I think it's just it's a very different lifestyle lifestyle certainly different type of stress. It's much more enjoyable You know we we get to go where you WanNa go and see amazing things. That's awesome but there is still or to be done to make it happen And stress along the way so you know we have never been bored. I will tell you that we've never been bored and we have never allowing We have hobbies that we've taken up at keeps busy and we're always meeting people on the road and so we've never felt like you know. What are we doing here? Got Nothing to a sacrament. Were always always yeah. It's allowed us to decompress in one sense but you you know as the days events. Let's have anybody thinking about our. You're still going to be who you are when you do riot like if you're a very driven person did talk with various things. That's who you're going to be if you're a planner. If you stressed out about things like you're still going to carry us up with you. I mean we we have an additional Maybe bit a stress because we like to know where we're going to go. We're just built in a way that we like to have planned out half reservations. Somebody else who's WHO's more Aw Freewheeling might not have that stress may not care you just you're GonNa be who you are no matter where now you are down in Florida. Just how how long have you been there and And then when you when you move from Florida Wendy Wendy do you. When do you go into that air? BNB I so we. We got to Florida. Just before Thanksgiving Kevin's parents aren't Saint Augustine. As we went over there spent about a month all of giving Christmas with them and then we did a loop through through the state parks along which you know the state parks order fantastic but again you need to start planning out at goodyear in advance And then we came onto the panhandle. So we're here for another week or so and then we're heading over to New Orleans for Mardi gras which were excited about see how that goes and and then we're heading over to Austin And that's what we're going to be set up for two months with a great we will actually be down your way towards the end of next week and we'll also an Austin in about About springtime so we would love to meet you guys on the road somewhere and connect in person meantime. We will direct everyone to your blog. You Act like you don't have a youtube channel. We don't this is actually the first time we've ever done on video so you guys look great and you know it's it's it's another factor of work that's an and eh spend our problem. We started off. Just want to tell everybody until these stories. And so we've done podcasts. and videos and books and emails all snow now we have a newsletter and marketing people and social media. And it's like wait wait but we are still l. having fun thank you guys for making some time. You are a couple you ivo wonderful reading style on the blog and I know what you will. I don't think you'll ever give up our but I think I love this. If you're like us You you still have a continually growing list of bucket list places you WANNA visit. So you've been doing this for the three and a half years. We haven't even come close to touching a fraction one says we want to go so Advice just to sum it all up to people is maybe get your feet wet gently. Don't jump in all at once until you're sure it's GonNa work and then don't be afraid to to modify your plan after a year so or whenever if you start to that and and don't be afraid to acknowledge that you know. Maybe things are feeling a little bit more stressful than than what you wanted to be like. Just because you're doing this doesn't change the fact that so you've still got to do with life right so just be conscientious about how you're feeling about the situation and realize your instagram things like Youtube. Are you know that. That's a highlight reel. That's you know. A lot of a lot of work goes into making that stuff. Look the way it looks and reality is still reality ability you know. It's not all sunsets cocktails. I loved the way you kept raising the photographer to raise you know. How many takes did it take to get that light? Just perfect in that little look in their eyes. Did you notice that some of those incidents close people set really uncomfortable. That would be. We'll we'll send people to all of your post all of your blogs and Just just just so much Kevin and Laura how much we appreciate you and your blog. Thank you again for being our guest on the podcast description and all the information Well Oh how to reach them. We'll be in the notes rate below this. Thank you guys so much exposing us. And that was a lot of fun fund interview and I Really love their blog again. They're blogs chapter. Three travels will put links on the show notes. Go to RV lifestyle dot com slash two eighty one. And you'll find it there but we have fun and you know genuine. You did your yoga pose on top of that. RV We had in Arizona last week. People thought you we're being like serious like you actually went up there and did that. Normally you might explain why you did it that way because I ask you. You were trying to teach me a lesson not to climb on top of the roof you gotta understand Harvey. She doesn't want me up on the roof because she thinks I'm GonNa fall off the roof now. I'm asking all the guys he's in the audience. What would you do if you you might fall off there you go up right you gotta show that you can do that so I did? So you're up on the roof and I decided okay. I'm going up. Open the roof so that you can stand down here and be concerned about me so I got up on the roof and then I thought well I can't do the exact same pose you did and we were laughing about the the fact that all these young people go up on the roof and do various yoga poses so I thought well. I'm just going to stand up here and just do this little poll. I didn't get my body already lined up just right because the wind was blowing and I really enough to San Reality of what's down there that long to get the post perfect but I look at you and did I see concerns. No I all I saw was the biggest smile that I've ever seen before as you're clicking pictures I did I did so. I thought everybody's GonNa Think I've been consuming adult beverages there. There were people who says pain and I hadn't done any of that. This was just like a life lesson. I was trying to teach you. Please don't go up on the roof because I can't wait till I get back up on the roof again. Who knows I made you do it? On the mountain top two and climbed Mount said was more and so hard. I thought I really thought it'd be blowing off the mountain. Oh we gotta do this all the time you know and then I said next time you get to do it folks if you WanNa see it. We're talking about The best the best read is At Laura's blog and there's Lincoln the show notes but she grabs a bunch of these silly instagram photos or just look under R v life. RV living and instagram. You'll see what we're talking about and it's just it's just crazy and you know that's not reality but we do have fun with it so I'll say that well anyway. It links to all their stuff plus a video interview you can actually see them they are we interview and we put some video of their website over it and I love to tell you to look at the video so thanks thanks to Thanks so much to Kevin and Laura for their times from chapter three travels to great blog to add to your listing air. You're here online online. Reading Habits Chapter Three travels. Hey this part of the podcast brought to you by Sunshine State. RV's there in Gainesville Florida. But if you just go to sunshine on shine state. RV'S DOT com. You can see probably the largest inventory of used small motorhomes anywhere North America plus perhaps one of the fullest line of brand new small motorhomes like the Winnebago Trovato the Winnebago era coachman the galleria beyond the American Patriot. The fleetwood Iraq rockin and more all new in stock and you can do business right over the Internet with Nick and his crew View on just make a trip to Sunny Florida. Oughta you can pick it up. And then began you adventures there or you can get your deal all consummated and they will deliver it to your driveway anywhere in the continental. US said they said they're used inventory is huge. They specialize in small motorhomes. Now view anywhere in Florida and you can make it I think it's the week after next To the last weekend in February to the notice is that the twenty th. I don't remember what the dates were of the Ocala. RV show coming up. I think it's next next weekend not this weekend. They will be at the OCALA. RV Show and you can you can see him there or just check their inventory out. Go to look them all up at it Sunshine State. RV'S DOT com time. Now for off the beaten path army podcast travel suggest. Yeah and let's go to our regular off the beaten path weekly correspondence. Tom and Patty Birket this time. We find them out east. Hey Jennifer and Mike if you've ever across a bridge or causeway of the Salt Grass Marshes of the mid Atlantic coast. You'll have seen the network of waterways that criss cross them at low tide. You can often see masses voice tres or at least oyster shells poking up out of them and high. I tide or low. You'll see Pelican skimming the grass tops and bone white egrets scattered among the green these marshes plan outside role in coastal ecology providing providing spawning grounds for many marine creatures protected area for the young to mature one of the ways. You can enjoy some time along. The marsh is to go crabbing. Forget about the fact that you might well come home with a bucket full of the best eating along the sure. It's both fun and relaxing. You need a little bit of gear some Bait Eight and a few facts about crab behavior to be successful at this past time. I find a good stout stick about as thick as your thumb and eight inches long long wind up onto it thirty feet or so of good cotton cord at the business end. You'll have to tie tri gate triangular fishing wait one of those ones that look like the Great Pyramid of Giza cast in lead miniature. You'll need a net to with a long handle. You can use a high quality fishing net if you have have one but any bait store tourist shop along the coast will sell you a perfectly adequate cheap one for less than ten bucks remember. You're not doing battle with the toothsome shark mark. You're just impeding the progress of crab long enough to get him into your bucket. Crabs are scavengers so any number of things will work pretty well as bait but the hands down favorite favorite is chicken necks. They're cheap and since most people don't use them in cooking plentiful tie the neck onto your line a few inches upstream of the sinker. And you're ready to go. Oh some people go crabbing successfully on the beach others along tidal inlets or even off low bridges. Our favorite spot is at the end of one of the many little access. Roads that lead to the edge of the tidal marsh especially on Sullivan's island in South Carolina. These makeshift driveways or the access. Used used by folks going into the marsh by boat to fish. Photograph collect oysters or just enjoy a paddle through the green quiet usually have any spot. You pick to yourself. Bring along a chair because unless you're working multiple lines crabbing is a leisurely affair. Now you need to know a bit about the crabs to have the best chance of catching them. Crabs are most active searching for food for an hour or two before and after high tide. Consult the tide table for your location and stake out a good spot. Toss your baited line out into the middle of the water and begin to pull it in an inch or so at a time I told you it was leisurely. Usually you want to move the crab to the edge of the water but not pull the line so quickly. The crab is scared off. When it comes into view from your position scoop keeping up with your net there are rules for crabbing? NO CRABS smaller than a hands with across the shell and females with eggs must be released back into the water other vert catch and eat your fill. The Sea of Spar Taina grass that make up these coastal marshes is a wonder in many ways it harbors and supports many birds and animals and it buffers the shore from the onslaught of storms and hurricanes it purifies run off water and provides nutrients for oysters. Clams is and muscles it whispers in the wind spend some time in its company and you won't be disappointed. It's one of the many overlooked. Natural Pleasures is out here off the beaten. What's happening time now to check the RV calendar events gatherings well Valentines Valentines weekend? Twenty twenty is upon us and it is a really active time for RV shows across the country. So listen up. I'm going to give you a long list. And you go back to the show notes and then click on the links for each particular show to get ours directions times all the details that you need. But here's what's what's coming. Twelve through the sixteenth of February the Houston. RV Show at the NRG Center in Houston Texas February Thirteenth through the sixteenth the Austin Stint RV Expo at the Austin Convention Center in Austin Texas February thirteenth to sixteenth big one. The Chicago our VN camping show at the Donald. E Stevens Evans Convention Center in Rosemont Illinois February Thirteen to the sixteenth the Oklahoma City R. V. Super Show at the State Fair Park in Oklahoma City Eighty February thirteenth through the sixteenth Utah Sportsman's vacation and RV show at Mountain America Expo Center in Sandy Utah Talk February fourteenth through the sixteenth. It's the Alabama. RV super show at the Von Braun Center in South Hall of Huntsville Alabama Emma February fourteen to the sixteenth the Atlantic City. RV Camping Show Atlantic City Convention Center Atlantic City New Jersey February fourteenth to the sixteenth. End The twenty-first through the twenty through third a two weeks show the Maryland. RV Show at the Maryland State fairgrounds into Monian Maryland February fourteenth thirteen to the seventeenth the London. RV Show at the Western Fair Agra Plex in London Ontario Canada February fourteenth to the seventeenth seventeenth. It's the northeast. RV Show at the Rockland Community College fieldhouse in suffering New New York February fourteenth to Seventeenth Springfield wingfield. RV Camping and outdoor show the eastern states exposition fairgrounds in West Springfield Massachusetts and February fourteen. Th through the twenty twenty-third the Indianapolis Boat Sport and travel. Show at the Indiana State fairgrounds in Indianapolis Indiana lots of RV shows. Check one out. It's always the best way for you to find the RV of your dreams because you can see all the different models. Try them all out and you won't have to go from multiple placed multiple place just check out an RV. Show new you lace on the show notes page for this episode which you'll find. RV LIFESTYLE DOT COM slash two eighty one that wraps up another episode of the RV. podcast with Mike and Jennifer wetland mu episodes are released every Wednesday in the best way to stay connected to subscribe I to the RV podcast. We were all the popular contest APPS and you can also listen on the RV lifestyle dot com travel blog time happy trails fellow travelers years down the road. Well thank you guys so much for listening. We had a great time on the show. Let us know. Use that voice mail message send us. Your questions wasn't listen fun. It was fun. Get to an RV. Show enjoy yourself Don't forget the show notes all the links and resources we shared in this episode. We'll be found right there and while you're at check out our blog. RV LIFESTYLE DOT COM to get to the show notes RV lifestyle dot com slash two eighty one on behalf of our dog Bo. I'm Mike Mike. I'm Jennifer trail happy trails by everybody. Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday to you. Happy Birthday Dear Shadow. Happy Birthday to you.

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The Weeds fixes racism

Vox's The Weeds

57:16 min | 2 years ago

The Weeds fixes racism

"The road it on your own. Okay. Hello, welcome to another episode of the weeds on the vox media podcast network. Matthew yglesias here with dare Lind. Jane costa. We are going to talk about something that came up at Michael Cohen's testimony as past week. We're not gonna talk about the intricacies of the various investigations into down Trump because we had Andrew here recently to do that. But there was this sort of weird sidebar about racism, the most dramatic moment of the hearing in the hearing room, I would say like the most tense moment between members of the committee. Michael Cohen all it was about late whether Donald Trump is a racist. And then whether Representative Mark meadows who is the former head of the house freedom caucus and close Trump ally is racist. So let me let me try to recap. What happened so Cullen as part of his repentance stick? Like really like through the kitchen sink in in terms of his like anti-trump stuff and then included in his pre released opening statement testimony. He said he was going to say stuff about how Donald Trump is racist. And that prompted Mark meadows who was trying to position himself as like Donald Trump leading Donald Trump defender to bring to the committee Lynn patent who had worked for the Trump organization for number of years as some kind of event plan her and now has been slotted into a role at HUD, and his somebody who knows Trump has worked with Trump. Trump obviously promoted into a government position. She does not see him obviously qualified for. So clearly he he has some admiration for her or desire to help her out. And medicines point in all this was I guess that you could see the Trump is not a racist. Because he knows this back. Woman. Well, I mean more specifically that lake he didn't quote her directly, but he paraphrased her as saying that as you know, he didn't actually say explicitly that as a black woman, but he said that she as the daughter of someone who grew up in Birmingham, Alabama would never work for a racist. So it wasn't quite a like Donald Trump can't be racist. He knows this black woman. It's Donald Trump can't be racist. This black woman says he's not racist. Right. And I just want to add in aside point that this like, you know, her father is raised in Birmingham. Her father is epidemiologist Curtis L Patton who is now a professor emeritus at Yale Dr wrote about this little bit. And I have also the flattening of African Americans that often takes place in these conversations where it's like. Oh, yes. This African American person her father's from Alabama. As if like that would mean something while her father's epidemiologists. Yeah. This is this is one of the many ways in the risotto. Oh, so many ways in which this was a weird screwed up interaction to get to where it got. So look for publicans offered a lot of blame arguments on subjects over the course of this hearing that note worthy. And then Democrats ask some questions Zion to further elicit what Michael Kohn was talking about where I think it is worth emphasizing that this sort of. Nave tastes shoe was was kind of on both both sides foot throughout this. Because the point that Michael Kohn was making about Trump was not that like Donald Trump has helped perpetuate systematic sources of disadvantage for African Americans. It was that he'd like made disparaging remarks about black people on two or three different occasions. Like, he said that one specific example was one time Trump said to him can you even name a country that's run by a black person that isn't a disaster. And this is when Obama was president. And so okay, that's racist. Actually think he's like the way that coincide. It was can you name a country run by electors in this shit hole, which is particularly relevant to anyone who remembers the whole country's moment. Although, of course, a lot of these things raise questions about the reliability of you know, hearsay testimony from like ten years ago. Right. I mean like say it had happened. Right. Like, okay. The insight here is that Trump wants cracked a joke where the joke wasn't just that he thinks rock Obama was a bad president. But that the nature of Obama being a bad president is that he's going to make the United States like a poor African country. So okay. Like, yes. Like that. I guess is racist. It is racist. It's also not I actually think like particularly like cut to the bone of what grievances with Donald Trump and grace are. And this is why you get into a zone where meadows counterpoint is like no see this lady who says she wouldn't work for racist person. Right. So we're basically in a debate about whether or not Donald Trump makes racist jokes. Right. And then and then she like kicked it up enough in which she in her line of it was barely questioning. Hang. But at the end of the hearing said that to sort of tokenistic -ly trot out a black person for her testimony to somehow obviate the like entire experience. Was it self form of races? Right. I mean, the the term that she used was to tease a black woman as a prop which like I actually saw a former hill staffer tweet about this in in a way that actually makes a certain amount of sense. Like, you know, they're hill staffers are used to their members asking for can we get can we print out a big chart that I can use. Can we like have some kind of blown up? Photograph of Michael cone with the word liar on it that I just have behind me during my testimony, which eventually they hash they head. Yeah. So like to the way that patent was being indicated was kind of in a similar vein. It was not like she wasn't actually getting a statement read into the record. She wasn't herself. Testifying. She wasn't speaking. She was being pointed to mutely in the same way that someone might point to a chart, and like when you think about it that way. Yeah. That that does seem kind of two humanizing, right? And I think that we've seen this a lot because meadows responses, which also I'm sure met we're going to get to this. A lot of people mentioned after this all happen. Video from twenty twelve in which Mark meadows Gionta Lee wandered into birtherism regarding President Barack Obama and talking about sending him back to Kenya. And his response was one I was running at the time and two I don't have a racist bone in my body. And we've talked about this before there's this idea that either if an African American person says you're not racist or not racist. And that racism is something that you that needs to be this like internal driver for you'd have done something racist. Right. This is this is getting ahead of ourselves a little bit late slightly. Yes. I gotta Presley whose another house freshmen on the committee had had. Had also brought this up later in the hearing like she actually turned it into a question. She asked Michael Cohen, like do you believe that someone who has essentially like, do you believe that someone can have a black friend and also be a racist? And then they made her remarks, and then Mark meadows blew up. Right. And there is if you you know, if you look at the clip there's a lot of talking over and a lot of questions about decorum, essentially meadows interpreted, what was saying as an individual attack on his character, which like individual references to other members of the committee wouldn't be allowed under like congressional decorum rules, and so was asking to have her statement struck from the record. And so she had to clarify that she was talking about the the act being racist not him personally. And then Mark meadows and Elijah Cummings. Who's the chairman of the house oversight committee had essentially a colloquium about how Mark meadows also has black friends and is not a racist. If the exact same thing, essentially Cummings. To get to hearing back on track. Did the exact thing where he like vouched for Mark Mets freight, right like do appear to genuinely be friends in the way that a lot of members of congress who've been in congress for a certain amount of time like have a certain report respect for each other, right? Like, manners meadows, basically had comings validate him Cummings being himself? Black meadows was like, you know, you know, we worked together. Really, well, I wouldn't you know that that itself is proof that I don't end and Cummings for his part like vindicated this and said, yeah, I can see because I know you because we're friends I can see how painful this is for you. And I assure you that she didn't mean that like he is absolutely validating meadows experienced in that moment, and you know, without wanting to psychology anything, it was a very interesting dynamic of the difference between this younger non black woman of color Russia to play you know, kind of being willing to walk right up to the edge. Not. Not calling Mark meadows a racist. But like being willing to say something that he was going to interpret that way and Elijah Cummings being like, no, I know it's very very painful for you to have your racial equality. Boniface question. Right. Well, you know, I think to to really delve into the dynamic there. Right. So it's like machine is. Arab-palestinian descend. She represents ovary district that has majority black. She is a freshman member. So there's a very real chance she ran against multiple different African American candidates and winning narrowly absurd. There's a very real chance that she will lose a primary to a single black challenger, right? So it is very strongly and her interest to like have no flank of black identity that can be turned against her. Right. Elijah Cummings is like the opposite of that. He's been in congress for a very long time. He is African American. He represents a majority black seat that he is held for very long time. He's very senior House Democrat. So like for him, the imperative is to operate in a sort of Bo Slee white congressional leadership space like very secure that African American voters in Baltimore are. Keep sending him to congress. But the question is like will Nancy Pelosi, and Steny Hoyer and other democratic committee chairs see him as like a power player who should be setting strategy because his whole cone hearing wasn't just like a random thing that happened right? Like, this is kind of the centerpiece of what House Democrats are doing. So like the question of is Elijah Cummings. A shrewd political tactician who is making the message points that we the Democratic Party want verses are we getting derailed into a debate about the definition of racism. You know is relevant. The weird context. Like the day before the cone hearing, the oversight committee issued its first subpoenas of the congress, and they made a big deal out of saying we didn't have to do this in a partisan manner. But we did. Anyway, the idea that having the continued BI partisan action specifically on oversight is possible. Right something that clearly they see is key to their. Legitimacy. No. So we on the weeds are not on message servants of the Democratic Party and are doing contrary to you know. We are now going to do what a logic to not want to let this Michael Kohn hearing get derailed off the topic of Donald Trump's for office into super woke. Yeah. The idea of whether of like racist bones versus racist acts. Right. Exactly. And I think that that something I've written about before. And it's just kind of this ongoing phenomenon that we in kind of American culture at the moment, there's been kind of this defining down of racism is. So that you have people I wrote about this. When I wrote about Steve king that it took Steve king saying, the actual words, white nationalist and white nationalism and saying what's so bad about that for people to be like hang on a second. When he was like palling around with faith Goldie and going on with people with cantaloupe calves for years. And I think we see this little bit saying that someone is racist or has engaged in racism. It's considered an insult. I like that. It's like, oh that was very mean of you to say not very terrible of that persons who having gauged in racism racist behavior. Let's let's let's take a break. And then and then let's delve into this. This is advertiser content. We use disposable water bottles for twelve minutes on average, but they could take two four hundred and fifty years to decompose your world. 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By a British dream pitcher today at Amazon, WalMart or target. So what I was writing about this and and using your article pretty heavily. I actually struggled a little bit not to just paraphrase you bunch and specifically with the term insult racist. As insult which I think is really really insightful. But in a way that I want pack a little bit more, right? Like the reason that racist as insult rather than just a neutral adjective like the why that's such a useful way to describe it is that generally when you label things you're trying to understand them better. You're like using that label as away to you know, as a way to kind of categorize them examine them when you're saying to someone hey that is a misinformed or, you know, under sensitive way to look at it. In theory, what you're supposed to what the intention of that is for them to kind of think again and reconsider and kind of gain more information in sympathy when racist is seen as exclusively an insult. It's shuts down conversation instead, right? It's like. The response either. Oh, you don't have any real arguments. So you're just calling me a racist. You're just engaging character attacks, or you know, on the other side if you're a racist. There's no place for you in the public sphere or any of that there's an understanding kind of throughout the political spectrum that to call someone a racist means to de-legitimize them. And that that is something that should be if you're on the receiving end of that lake frustrated and resisted, not something that is that is actually being used to invite a conversation. Well problem is that like it's that gets extended to people not just being called a racist. But use of use of the term, racist or racism, right? Exactly saw with the thing where she said verbatim a racist act. And it got taken as saying you are Avery societal. I wanna try to take through this a little bit. Yeah. Okay. So here, Jane, I'm gonna do it to dialogue, right? Okay. We're gonna dial having racial dialogue. So Mark meadows earlier in his career was out there making birther jokes. Right about Bronco. Exact. So a person seeing clips of those jokes. You might say, that's that's racist. Right. So a defense that Mark meadows. It seemed to me like he was offering to that was look I can see how you would see that. And be like this, Mark meadows guy. Like, this is a bad guy. He hates black people. Right. But I am telling you that in my heart in my bone swiped in the non-visible interior of Mark meadows. I have nothing but positive sentiments toward African Americans. And I apologize for those jokes. But also you have to understand that. I was running for office at the time. Right. So that's like, whoa. You might look at Barack Obama from two thousand eight saying, I believe marriage is between a man and woman, and you might say, oh, man. But what? With this homophobe, and I might offer as a defensive that like, but look you've got understand, right? He was playing savvy political game like he put on the bench. The supreme court justices who created marriage equality. He flip flopped in a timely manner. He appointed pro gay people and all the evidence from his personal life in his interactions that he's totally fine with BT people. And like there's a difference between Mark meadows cynically playing to racism to win a primary Mark meadows being racist. So the issue here, and I've said this multiple times is that if you are willing to cynically engage in racism, there's a Ken white on Twitter who goes by Popat at Popat goes head something I believe he calls the law of goats, and the love goats, I will put it in the most PG way possible is that if you have sex with a goat, even if you're having sex with. A goat. Ironically or cynically or for political purposes or because you want to trigger the libs you are still having sex with a goat. That is what you are doing. I feel as if in this, particular instance, if you are engaging in racism for cynical political purposes that is not better, it raises more questions about one's moral, judgment or character. And obviously, I have not thoroughly examined Mark meadows skeleton to find his like racist femur or something like that. But I do think that the willingness to having gauged in birtherism this same birtherism in which President Trump engaged for a million zillion years that that does show a willingness to engage in racist acts, and if you say that you're doing it just because you wanna win an election. Honestly, I was saying this a little bit like give me like the moral temerity of an orally Tate's who genuinely believed it this sin. That it takes to engage in something richest as birtherism, but just to say like I was doing it to to try and win an election. That's that's disgusting. I mean, fundamentally, this is a matter of do you think that racism is only unforgivable as if it's like a worldview or a motivator? And if you can make an intentional argument that you were motivated by something else that you know, that forgives you or do you see racism as a matter of practice, right? Like, either racist, something you are or as racism, something that one does and clay is making the the argument that it's fundamentally the second think that in general we've seen that that is a more useful way to think about it because hey, it inferior avoid stigmatizing individual people. Be it focuses on the consequences of the action. It's like if Mark meadows in front of a group of people who genuinely do believe that blacks are inferior, and he doesn't, but he tells them LL Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Do they know that he doesn't think that right? That doesn't actually matter in all respect in which that was a meaningful thing for him to say it was a racist thing for him to say. And so the other reason that talking about racism in acts matters because you can fear radically get people to you know, to like point of improvement or redemption, right? Like, if if this is just a bad habit that you have or some other practice like you. You know, you do because you don't know any better or you do because you need to be kind of told the right way to behave. You can do that. And like it's not that Mark meadows is forever stained by having said that Barack Obama was by having made a birther joke. Like, that's not the point of talking about racism, arc meadows. The point of it is to acknowledge the extent to which he and frankly by extension the current iterating of the Republican party have used race as a political. Tool and to talk about that as a factor in continued racial equity. Right. But I think that distinction right? So like acts for people sort of subjective versus external view of these things is valid and these are important kinds of contributions to make the debate at the same time. I do think it's true that people on the left sometimes engage in a I guess, we'll call in fostering class a fallacy of equivocation on this point where we have a broad social consensus that racism is bad. So like if you ask people in a very sharply polarized political dynamic, right? If Mark meadows is up there. If Donald Trump is up there. Mitch McConnell is up there. And you're like, hey, man, like what's up with racism back? That's bad. Right. And everybody agrees. So in. In that sense. Like, yes to call somebody racist to say, they are doing something racist is to say they are doing something bad is to say they doing that is by consensus bad that is outside the bounds of partisan political contestation, right because we disagree about many things, and we've agreed to be colleagues appear on the days. But we agree that racism is bad and unacceptable practice. So when you point to something that people are doing, and you seek to apply the level label racist to it which are trying to say is that this thing belongs outside the zone of conflict. But frequently the idea of the like sophisticated lefty academic idea of racism gets applied to things that are clearly inside the zone of legitimate contestation to somebody will say. The mortgage interest tax deduction is a racist practice because it was disparate impact on African Americans or they will say as I think it was Elizabeth Warren got into some political hot water when she said the criminal Justice system is racist. And then when a bunch of Massachusetts law enforcement officials, some of whom are African American got mad at her. Pin wheeled back into like a discussion that you might have on a college campus, you know, about like, look, I'm not saying that the Massachusetts state police is like all composed of bad people who harbor deep seated, Rachel prejudices. I am saying that there are structural inequities in the system in those cases, it's initially the point is of wrong, but you were deliberately making a controversial point. Yeah. I definitely, and I think that to some extent that is people trying to condemn racial inequity in strong moral terms because they believe it is a moral issue. And to certain extent that is something that progressive activists are trying to use like, you know, people who believe who firmly believe that current, you know, housing policy is unacceptable because it perpetuates racial inequities are too. Certainly set deliberately trying to apply the word racist to render it unacceptable, and it's just not clear that that works. But I think that frankly dynamic that you've pointed out is key to why we've settled on intentionally because if you know in order to draw the line between what is legitimate, and what is illegitimate and partisan contestation. What we've seen is that if you can. Construct a race neutral framework for why you are arguing for what you're arguing for like if you say it's not about suppressing the black vote. It's that I think that it's really important to have to bend over backwards to prevent voter fraud. If you say, it's not about, you know, not wanting Latino immigrants it's because I believe really strongly in the neutral rule of law like those are things that have been decided. Okay, that that is an acceptable way to argue about it. And frankly, when I say that factor often, a stalking horse for values on immigration, and otherwise that's the dynamic that creates that. Right. It's a lot of people who are making arguments based on facts that aren't necessarily what's motivating their position because that's what's deemed as acceptable in the public sphere. Right. As if they were to talk about like a certain amount of cultural discomfort or want to talk about well, it's in my interest to. Event people who are gonna vote for the other guy from voting that would be they people understand that that would be seen that like they could get accused of being racist. And they don't wanna do that. Right. Exactly. And it's interesting though, because our country has attempted to make quote, unquote, racism anathema, we've defined it down. So that you can say no, you have people who are engaging in extremely racist acts, and then what happens is that non white, folks. Or specifically in these examples African American say, hey, that's racist. And then those people respond. No, no, I would never do that. Like, I would never be racist. While I post this picture on my Facebook while but how Michelle Obama is a man or as an ape or I'm William rig, Mary and run an actual white nationalist think tank, but he's not a racist because he's just a racial realist. And you even see that on kind of the white nationalist far. Right. The idea of like, we can't sit, you know, we're not racist. We're just racial realist. Because. They recognize as Dr put it that if they can even put those views yoke kind of when people get into kind of the rates Nike discussion, if they can put those views in what they believe to be value neutral context, vacant engage in kind of this wider conversation while attempting to kind of hide the fact of like, oh, why are you engaging in this wider conversation? Right. Why are you doing this? And this is where it gets really tricky. Because this is where the left looks at what the people who are trying hard not to call themselves. Racists are arguing and looks at everybody else arguing that goes, this is a societas with these racists right of racist view. Like, I think it's really important to note that when we're talking about these kind of ideological like parallel construction right in the same way that a prosecutor sometimes, you know, has evidence that might not have been obtained through like means that are going to hold up to a fourth challenge in court, but they can kind of take that information and. Like come up with an alternate way. They have gotten that would have been legal like it's kind of the same dynamic that doesn't mean that everyone is who who espouses the racially the facially neutral view right doing that. Like, not everyone is is seeing this as a fig-leaf. It's just that some the people who genuinely believe that are getting lumped in with the people who you know, may or may not genuinely believe it are getting in with the people who have not thought much about it. Exactly. But so I do think that there is an irreducible element of subjective ISM to the concept of racism, and that the effort to make it purely external issed doesn't really fully make sense. And I think the voter suppression is a good example there, right? So, you know, an argument that will be made about this is that to seek to disenfranchise a group of African Americans because they are African American is both. For constitutional reasons unacceptable, but also for a sort of moral ethical reason why that is like you are saying I am putting these black people outside the bounds of citizenship. Right. They do not count as Americans, and then you can make a counterpoint like, no, I don't have any impure racial motive in doing this. I'm just just a guy out here. Trying to win an election, man. You know, like, you know, what I what I'm saying? You might make a comeback and be like, look, I sorta don't care like what exactly is in your hearts and bones here. Like, the fact is you're disenfranchising people, and that is disadvantageous to buck people. And I feel like that argument makes sense. I think everybody understands words coming from. But because of the way partisan politics works, if you try to disenfranchise college students if you try to make it so that university of wiscon-. Insen students can't vote that also is objectively harmful to the interests of black people living in the state of Wisconsin in objectively harmful to the interests of African Americans nationwide. Because those college students at university of Wisconsin who are overwhelmingly white are gonna vote for the same candidates right for Tammy Baldwin for Tony Evers who black people in mock you're voting for. But I think it would be kinda crazy to say that like moves to make it harder. It would be I think very respectable to say that moves to make it harder for college students to vote are bad for reasons of equal democracy and citizenship, but to call them racist because it's objectively contrary to the interests of black people feels like a wild stretch to me and like and like an abuse of the moral force of. Braces as a matter of political science, though, I think that this is like this actually gets to a really important question because the flip side of well, it's probably not racist to prevent college students from voting just because it would objectively harm the interests of black voters is like if you're a North Carolina State legislator, for example. And you're an idiot who doesn't understand how discovery works in lawsuits? And so right, all these emails about how great it is that you're right is starting plan disenfranchises black voters because they would be voting for the other guy if you're not trying to keep them from voting because they're black. But because they would vote from the other guy, isn't that just a sense of partisan competition and like possibly, right? The root problem here appears to be that we are in a situation where one of our national parties does not see non white people as an important voting, you know, as as an important part of its coalition, and to the contrary sees them as a key part of the other side's coalition that therefore should probably. Tamped down on ever possible. Like that can't be healthy in its own. Right. And it self makes it extremely difficult to talk about where the boundary between partisan contestation and things that are objectively perpetuating, racial inequities are and I agree. I think the moral force argument is a good point. I think that you know, in general specificity of language is great. And so if we're if we're trying to talk specifically about current racial inequities, if we're trying to talk about the legacies of particular past policies, like the reparations debate has already gotten super super confused because people aren't necessarily sure whether they're talking about reparations for slavery or reparations for Jim crow and red lining or reparations for kind of the some of injustices that have been visited upon African Americans over the four hundred years of colonization and settlement like. It's good to talk specifically about current things. It's good to genealogical. Think about the legacies of past harms eighties is good to talk about the problems that come from, you know, white supremacist ideologies and mindsets may be the right answer is to separate all that from talking about racism, but it doesn't get us away. From the fact that lake none of those things are things the Republican party is currently incentivized to deal with. And as to the contrary they're incentivized to like not to to dismiss them and fight against any attempts to ameliorate them. And I think we see that overall that I would argue that the even the idea of racism as a moral force. I feel like has been diluted time in time and time again because that works is immoral force as long as you're willing to accept it as one, but if you're showing up in black face in a yearbook, and then trying to argue about how like let me moon walk away from this. Show that I am not in fact racist, I feel that's an obvious Gatien. The issue with racism is not just that. It's a political cudgel the issue with racism is that it's evil and has resulted in the destruction of communities and lives in this country for centuries and still in many respects does. And I think that it's particularly challenging when it gets into this conversation about you know, it's applicable as a moral force. When people don't want to accept it when it can be a moral force for Republicans, but of Democrats are accused of engaging in racist behavior as a democrat was Maryland for using a racial slur about a region of Maryland, she went with the kind of like, I would never say those words, but I have said those words, and that kind of occupation of moral force. I feel like a real concern in many respects, not just politically, but culturally as well. Let's let's bring this back to Michael Kohn, actually. Okay. Hey, thanks for listening to the weeds. If you like this podcast, we've got another one. You check out it's called drill. This an investigative true crime style podcast, but it's about climate change. The first episode tells the story of how fossil fuel companies created climate denial made it this podcast includes more primary sources than any other previous reporting on the subject. Now, new internal documents revealing the oil company strategies, the new episodes just started publishing now in February. And they're gonna run every other week with ongoing reporting on corporate blocks to climate action from fake news sites. I meant loss to new investigative series this year one in may and the other September package called drilled you could find an apple podcast or Spotify. Or wherever else you liked to listen to your podcasts. I don't I don't wanna do both sides for the sake of both siding. But I think it's worth pointing out that like the whole reason that we're talking about this week as opposed to every other week. It's not like racist only relevant in American life. Sometimes but. Michael Kohn brought this up as a way of discrediting the personal character of Donald Trump by calling him a racist. Right. Like nothing that Michael Kuhn was actually on the stand to say that the house oversight is looking into. It was about race at all cone through in. In addition to kind of giving in his prepared remarks. These tantalizing stories that were relevant to various house oversight lines of inquiry. The idea that Trump in addition to being a con and a liar was a racist. And you know, kind of talked about the Obama should countries saying if you other anecdotes like. Goes obviously, not a paradigm of woke nests here. Right dude is a middle aged white dude from the outer boroughs, but both his temptation to do that. And then when called out by Mark meadows in who's pointing to patent. He responded by saying, well, I wouldn't work for shouldn't work for racist. Either. I'm the son of a holocaust survivor, which like honestly was seen as a mic drop moment in some quarters. And I would urge anyone who thought that kind of reconsider. Why they think it's not super not cool to say this black woman says Donald Trump's not a racist. Therefore, he isn't. But it is cool to say, I'm the son of a holocaust survivor, and I say that he is like it. Yes, exactly the same by or biographical effort to say, you know, I am going to pronounce them. Not yo and I can do this because my family history says that I am an arbiter of what isn't isn't racist? Like to talk about racism and politically unhelpful. As by no means limited to conservatives to the right to any of that. It's it's a convenient way to do things. It's just that. You know, it does. I don't know. I feel I keep coming back to this question of moral force. Like, what is the right answer to get people to look at things analytically while making sure that things are not kind of well, many from being something that doesn't have human impact. I think the distinction so matters here, right? Like, if you think about Sarah, and I were podcasting about Amy klobuchar and her treatment of her staff and the concern there is not that like Amy klobuchar is potentially like systematically disenfranchising like staffers as a group or something. But it something has been revealed about her character. Right. And how she deals with people who are in suborn. Knit position vis-a-vis her and that this insight into her character should give us some cause to worry about her behavior as a policymaker, right? And to one argument you could make about Donald Trump. The argument that Michael Kohn was advancing with his stories about racist jokes is at Donald Trump harbors ill sentiments, toward African American people and cone was also making the argument about himself that as a descendant of holocaust survivors, like many Jewish people of that rough demographic right that he takes seriously the threat that invidious personal prejudices in general can pose in life, right that like Jews were happily assimilated in Germany and getting along. But there was a lot of prejudice against people in freely. Got at hand right now, we understand that this is bad that the purity when I. Think about like my grandparents, right? Who by the end of their lives would not qualify as like woke on racist people, but who in the fifties and sixties where like absolutely full-throated supporters of the civil rights movement as they understood it because they understood the purity taboos of the Jim crow south to be close cousins to European anti semitism. Right. And then like later, though, if you're talking to them about like school district lines in housing policy, right in like, a very classic story about like northern white ethnic, for example. You know when everywhere, right. That's like a big part of American politics is that kind of turn. And I think you see it in the ambiguity around Trump and race because the idea that Donald Trump could be like racist in the sense of like. The really bad in personal behavior. Right. That could give some people pause about Trump in a way that simply saying that like Trump favors ideas that systematically advantage white people that might give them like the opposite of pause about Donald Trump. But guess what they want like innocence like Trump's claim about himself would be that like he champions ordinary by which he would mean white Americans against elites here on this podcast who like want him to tear down like social systems that provide you with good schools and property values and safe streets and things like that. And I'm always reminded of a study vox road up earlier where it was like informing people about the racial inequities in the criminal Justice system, made them less supportive of reform rather than more that like the fact that the American crew. Justice system is very expensive extremely punitive with something that people had started to worry about. But when you told them, it was also, very disparate knits racial impact. That didn't make them think. Like a now, it's really bad. It made them think like, oh, maybe this isn't as big a problem as I thought, and I just think that like it's hard to have it both ways on these topics. Right. Like systematic advantage disadvantage are real phenomena that deserve to be discussed. But would always want is like the political. I think there's something to be said when talking about Trump or talking about pretty much anyone like there. I think we've been having this discussion when we talk about Mark meadows or others that there's this idea that racism would be displayed the same way both internally and externally. So. Trump, for example, his particular brand of what I would say, internal racism is the same thing that means he was very surprised that members of the Congressional Black caucus had did not know Ben Carson because he just kind of Sumed that they would all know each other or the kind of the internal racism that one might have went one is someone who has talked a lot about how he only wants Jewish people to control money, or you know, who did what he did regarding the central park five, but his externalize racism, I think that actually gets back to the meadows point is that this is someone who tweeted about how there will never be another black president again because Barack Obama was bad or the kind of externalised racism of not just because I think that when we get into disparate impact of different actions. I think it's it's worthwhile kind of talking about how we phrase that in terms of racism, but then time and time and time again in which. The externalize resume, and especially the cynical use of externalised racism for political reasons like birtherism was an we can see this time and time again, by the fact that Trump kept saying things like he'd flown people to Hawaii to go look into Obama's birth certificate or done all of these things. And then if you'll remember during the presidential campaign, he held a press conference. It was basically like well that's over now by and that was an expression of cynical externalize racism. That's not what you're going to get from like the Richard Spencer of the world. But that is the wheeled ING over as ISM for cynical personal and political purposes. And I think that there's something to be said about how internal and external racism don't both need to look the same. And we talk about racism as or saying that someone is a racist. As if someone if. A racist. Cannot also be many other things. I'm always reminded. There's a diner in DC that's been around for like a million years, Florida avenue grow, and there are pictures of people who have gone there. And there's a table at which Martin Luther King plan the March on Washington, there's a little plaque and someone who loved to go to Florida avenue grill was strong Thurman, and there's a picture that he signed where it talks about how much he loves the corn bread. And how it so great there and strong Thurman is probably best remembered as a staunch segregationist who fought for Jim crow for a very long time. But then in the early nineteen seventies he hired a black staffer, and like kept talking about how his segregationist views were more about like federal intrusion into American life, so strong Thurman head and internal racism, which was I really like when the African American employees of this predominantly black diner make cornbread, but I would very much rather. They did not go to school with anyone. I know. Or my children. But I also he then had it mixed race child out of wedlock. That's neither here nor there. But then his externalised racism was engaged in fighting for Jim crow for changing political parties over the issue and kind of engaging in this use of as I said this use of racism as a cynical political ploy. And then deciding that he that since that no longer worked. He was going to shift away from that. And I think it's very worthwhile recognizing that people are multifaceted people contained contain multitudes. And as drew racists as do people who engage in racism, and as people who engage racism in these political sense, you know, in these political sensibilities, and I think being able to talk about that being able to put RAs actions in context and racist people in context, I think is extremely worthwhile. But it really bothers me time again where you. You have this idea that like, you know, oh, my external cynical racist actions. Don't say anything about my internal wrist ISM. When it clearly does. I almost wanna let you drop them like that. But now that you brought up Shaw. Yes. I wanna think it with this neighborhood Virginian, I live. I think what the opposite case of this. Right. Okay. Which is so our neighborhood at this point in time. Mostly white large minority population. Right. The public schools are majority minority though, I speak all the time to white parents around the neighborhood who have a clear reluctance to send their kids to the majority black public school. Yes, this is ongoing phenomenon. There's been some really terrific reporting. The New York Times on this issue, especially New York. And if I were to suggest that it seemed to me that this behavior was motivated by prejudice about black children. Would they would come back at me with? I think is not like my black friend because these are woke liberals, they would come back with the fact that they're external Leising behavior is extremely anti-racist. Right. That like they lie. Like support criminal Justice reform, and they want to undo funding inequities and like eighty million like good anti racist, political stances, but it actually seems. Quite relevant telling in damning to me when people are like willing to have lots of woke political views, but like won't actually do the thing. Exactly. And I think we've seen this time and time again, specifically I'm thinking of people on the left where they're very much. It's kind of like, I am extremely interested. In black lives matter. I'm extremely engaged in the discussions about racism in American society. But I draw the line at my kid because I think that that is that internalized and externalised racism or views of race in the sense. And I think that it's. That's something. I mentioned a little bit earlier that that cuts really close for a lot of people. And you'll notice how uncomfortable that very discussion can get because when we talk about racism as a moral force that moral force can be embarrassing and painful for people to you know, who are kind of engaged in it. And then you see those same people who are just like, it's not just want my kids to go to high good schools, and you know, then you get into what is a good school. Look like, and you know, how people have these conversations and you see this a little bit. I'm on the right? I'm reminded of a really terrific piece that actually wound up in a blog that I can't find it. Now, if someone could find it would be very much grateful a woman who she's a pro-life activist. And she wrote a piece in the federalist about how you know, if you're pro-life it's very important that you listen to black lives matter and stop just responding about like, we'll. Black people of their children or something like that. Like, why are you not listening to us? And she was saying that, you know, she got responses from friends and from people within the pro-life movement. Like, how dare you say that how how dare you bring this up because it made them uncomfortable. And I think that that engagement with. Thinking about race or racism, and it how uncomfortable it gets people at how people want to disengage push it away onto someone else or foisted onto someone else who they're not. And especially when it gets personal when it's about your views on abortion or about your where your kids go to school. Yeah. I mean, right. Like this gets back to Elijah Cummings trying to make sure that it like that. He that. Mark meadows knows that he Elijah Cummings feels his pain like the inevitable tendency of conversations about racism in twenty nineteen is that they become about the feelings of the person who was accused of racism, and that is not a super productive way to have a public debate. Like, I think I've I've been persuaded by Matt's arguments. Like, there is a reason that that is such a powerful thing. And maybe it's a good idea to respect that. But I just think I think that it's worth pointing out one that if we talked you know, if. We did the same analysis to like the white parents of Shaw that we were doing to the democratic and Republican you know, that we were doing to play and Elijah Cummings earlier in this episode, right? If we were talking about like, well, of course, you know, this group of people have a certain set of advantages that they wished to preserve, and they do not want to give up their personal advantages for the sake of other people like that is a neutral thing that we can say nobody is going to that doesn't sound very controversial. But when it's well, the reason that you have some under in privileges is because of your whiteness, and what that means in America, it becomes well. But I don't deserve. I didn't do anything wrong. So I don't deserve to give these privileges up. It becomes a very like why should I be punished for things that I have no control over which? I think that it's an understandable response from of tearless politics, viewpoint. But then becomes why would you say that I am trying to hurt your child, which is not the best way to do things that gets multiplied when we're talking about the strums Thurmond the like Mark's meadow of the world, right where it's like, they're speaking as individuals who have individually hurt feelings, but they're not in congress because of the purity of their feelings right there in congress to exercise power over the lives of other people. Those two aren't it's not a super strong distinction because to talk about racial equity is to talk about power, and if we can make turn this into some operational help for engaging in racial dialogue in twenty nineteen a good starting point, especially for white people is if you are trying to turn this into a conversation about your feelings, right? Just like think about it. As try to think about it as a simple question of distribution of resources as a simple question of economics is like whatever it takes to get this into a place where you don't feel personally impugned, and then you can come back to your feelings on your own time and figure out why meant so much to you to get you know, like y that hurts so much that is something that you can do internally doesn't actually require another person's validation. Also, I would note because I I will never run for congress or hold any political power whatsoever. So I can save relatively what I want that. You know? Sure and see exactly need, you know, the feelings of the people of the feelings of Mark meadow are not the top priority in this discussion. And it it's very interesting. How the conversation that they were having shifted to. Let's make Mark meadow. Feel better rather than why did Mark meadow decide to bring this note African American women held employees into this room to stand silently and be in a prop of sorts to show that someone else wasn't racist. Because this person said they weren't but didn't say at the time because she stood they're not saying anything as a prop there. Go. All right. Thanks, guys. Thanks to everybody out. There listening things to our sponsors. Thanks, of course to our producer Jeffrey guilt. We can continue to become sation in the weeds Facebook group and will be back on Tuesday. Weeds listeners. Why are you buying drinking? Bottled waters is the tastes that can we need. Okay. But listen the energy that is used to power America's love of plastic water bottles. It's huge. And the cost is outrage we use millions of barrels of oil every year just to manufacture the bottles. So how about considering a British stream instead each filter keeps hundreds of plastic bottles out of circulation and its fastest filter ever. No more waiting for the pitcher to fill you just pour entering instantly it superintendent, you what to taste good, all the whatever. The you need filtered out or filtered out, you can get your bitter stream today at Amazon at WalMart. Target other big stores. Check it out. Going to south by southwest by any chance if so is a great opportunity because if you'd love hearing, our delightful voices here earphones, you're going to even more love seeing our amazing faces live and in person in Austin, Texas to me Darah Lind. Jane Costa are going to be doing to live episodes of the weeds as part of a larger project the deep end by box media, which is taking over the Belmont. It's about ten minute walk from the Austin convention center right downtown. It's happening March eighth tenth anybody is welcome RSVP at vox media, events dot com slash s X S W. I show is going to be on Friday. We are going to have former HUD secretary and San Antonio mayor Julio Castro than on Sunday. We're going to have south bend, Indiana, mayor Pete Buddha, judge these are two really interesting guys both running for president candidate heard a little bit less about. But we're going to take deep dive with them into some of the policy issues that they're passionate about moral. Gonna learn finger to should be really fast. Waiting. So if you're there and Austin, the deep end by vox media at the Phil Mont a three day event at south by southwest, March eighth through March tenth between live podcast for many vox media podcast network favorites that's gonna be to weeds episodes care Switzer's Rico, decode the virgin verge cast and much more from eater Espy nation. All our friends. It's going to be really cool.

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J2 Global CEO Vivek Shah on being a serial acquirer of media businesses

Recode Media with Peter Kafka

46:00 min | 2 years ago

J2 Global CEO Vivek Shah on being a serial acquirer of media businesses

"Today's show is brought to you by Microsoft, Azure, with advanced analytics and artificial intelligence, Azure, helps businesses amplify bold, ideas and scale them worldwide hear more about how Azure enables innovative teams to push their ideas further a little later in the show and start your free account today at Azure dot com slash trial. This is Recode media with Peter Kafka. That is me I'm part of the vox media podcast network. I'm here in New York City of box media headquarters Vivek shot, they get your name. Right. You did. We me CO j two global company. Probably have not heard of I've heard of it. You've heard of it formerly see of Ziff Davis media company. You may have heard of it may be using other people that is someone that I wanted to bring on for a while because he doing something sort of counter to a lot of other media companies. He's been in the news on and off the last couple years because he was gonna by Gawker media one point did by Mashal, I'm assuming maybe you're in the market for other distressed assets. Always in the market. We can talk about that. Let's set the stage. Explain what j two global is show. Jay is a four billion dollar publicly traded internet information services company. So to your point maybe not everyone in your audience has heard of Jade. To but you've probably heard of the forty one of the forty or multiple of the forty plus brands that we own so we own hygiene, we own Mashal we own PC MAG. We own speed test. We own Everyday Health one of the whole conversation about speed test and a little bit. And we'll go on we own basically forty brands there. Either ad-supported content or subscription supported services, and you used to just run the digital media portion of the thing. And now you're on the entire yes. So the whole mcgilla is about one point two billion of revenue half of that revenue are subscription supported internet services. Things like Yvonne campaigner viper, which is antivirus and the other half is digital media. Which is if Davis and Everyday Health in the connection between the digital media side of the company and the rest of the company is what other they're all internet. I look at is the idea that mash Abol is supposed to feed viper in somewhere. To Sara supposed to be necessary. Think of us as a portfolio company, and we love the diversification that a portfolio bring so diversification is business model addresses subscription. It's content versus services, it's verticals tack health etcetera. So from our point of view, they're connected by the internet thread, and there's another connection, which is these are all businesses that are playing some role in the analog to digital transition. So I think of you as in prior to all this you were at timing running their their brands rising star one had runs if Davis you can go Google's if Davis at one point a giant magazine publisher, eventually bankrupt out of bankruptcy is now a publisher of a smaller portfolio of assets that you won't. Yes. I think you a guy who for the last three or four or five years pretty much to anyone who would ask would say. Most of you guys are doing it wrong. Most of the media business is. Going in the wrong direction. You're raising too much money. You're pursuing this advertising base slash Facebook slash Google bail strategy. It's not gonna work you can do a victory lap. Now. If you want because it kind of sounds like you had it, right? All along. I mean, look, I think from a digital media point of view, we understood pretty early on that display only by display I mean ad banners. And pre roll ads alone wasn't gonna work. Right. So recognizing that we needed multiple revenue streams, which when you go back to my Time, inC days when you go back to your magazine days, we've always had multiple revenue streams subscription there's advertising stuff. So we understood that right? And so when you look at what we've done on the media side more than half of our revenues are not display advertising. So it's either performance marketing, which we can talk more about, but it's basically driving transactions and driving leads. So yes a form of advertising, but different not R P base not request for proposal based not ad served base. But really driving transact, and you're not getting paid for showing someone getting. Paid when someone do some. So to be clear we do have a display advertising business, and it's a substantial in two hundred fifty million dollars a year. But we have north of that in performance, marketing and subscriptions, so back to your original point. Yes, I think we saw that display only wouldn't work. I think the other thing that probably distinguishes us from some not all digital media companies is we're very earnings and cash flow focused. So we run the business and sort of a really traditional way. Right. It just happens to be a digital media business. But from our point of view, we're here to generate cash is that is that just simply a function that you're publicly traded, and you have to show that no, I think, it's our mindset, and I think, you know, going back to my Time, inC days what maybe not everyone associates with timing. But I do a very disciplined company, it ran a very sound business. So the fifteen years I spent there really train. Wind me to run a media business like a business, and it was in decline for a lot of that time and it was being buff. You had the same internet problem that everyone else had, but you guys were making money year after year after year and all the folks who were there, I'm assuming that includes you said man, the problem was is that we had to take our profits and hand him over to Time Warner, and we could never do anything else. He l look. So I think the one thing that if we could have done differently. I think is to take the cash that we were generating from our operations and invest it back into the business either in the form of investments in the business operating investments or capital investments or acquisitions, and so I won't go through the acquisitions would've showed us. Well, we had a list that if we had transacted on any of those I think would have fundamentally changed that company. And so when I moved into if Davis, so I spent fifteen years at time timing when I moved into Ziff Davis just understand what Ziff Davis was. Ziff Davis had just come out of bankruptcy had one brand that was BC MAG doing sixteen million revenue losing some millions that we acquired for about twenty two and a half million dollars. So I didn't start with necessarily the most example. But what we understood was that. There was a path for that brand that if we could take the cash we were going gonna generate from that brand and acquire other brands, which we started to do that we could start to build something interesting. And really it's from that early Colonel which was two thousand and ten to today, we have a six or media business. So we understood the role that acquisitions could play in building a modern digital media company too. So that's an important part. And I think that distinction. So let's explain what performance marketing is. I think broadly, this is what people call ecommerce. Now, it's a combination of at least at least when the talk my media company. Yeah. So it's the combination of. Ah for us. It's affiliates. Ecommerce so. Links on articles that drive your users to a commerce site to transact, and you get paid when when someone click on the link or when they go there, and then maybe by or in some way, transact on the on the other side. Correct. So turning consumers of content into consumer products and services, it's something that I think a lot of businesses now are doing last year's a lot of lot of vox media hasn't little group dedicated to this BuzzFeed does the New York Times went out and bought wire cutter. And that is the core of that business. Is you go ask them what kind of refrigerators, should I buy buy this one you end up at best buy, and maybe the maybe wire cutter gets a cut of that deal. So we saw that eight years ago, and that's a two hundred and fifteen million dollar a year business for us and think about the margin profile of that's very high right because I've already spent my costs on detoro infrastructure at cetera. It also is different than your traditional ad. Business where someone says I'm going to buy a certain amount. And then you fulfil it here. It's uncapped as long as you drive. A transactional pay you, and we love that characteristic of the business. So yes, it's more competitive. More people are focused on it. But I actually think that's a positive because I'll tell you when we started an affiliate commerce most affiliate, publishers weren't the highest quality aditorial publishers. Now, you look at the affiliate commerce industry, and you've got under numbers. We've got New York Times. You've got the properties inside of this building vox, you've got quality product magazines, really pushing. Yeah. So that's good. So so that is performance marketing, another element that we have that some of these companies also have or may not have is legion where there are certain products and services, particularly in the enterprise, you're not going to transact online where we're helping collect lead forms that turned into something that a salesperson can follow up very old model and has been around as long as the internet's rape VI model. Right. Waxes and wanes, I think depending on sort of like there was a lot of credit cards stuff mortgage stuff comes back and forth, but for things high consideration products, right? Correct. Correct. Correct term for it where someone if if they lose a customer, they're gonna make an enormous amount of money. So they can pay you a significant chunk of money for that lead. That's right. They are allowable as high so given that that's the core of your business or the main thrust of your business when you're. Looking at things you wanna buy or maybe even build? I'm assuming that means that anything you're looking at has to to work in that model. So again, this is not everything. So let's go to the j two portfolio for a second. I think if you are affiliate commerce and performance marketing is one play in our playbook. Subscriptions is another is another play. But let's focus on performance marketing since we're talking about it, and we can get into subscriptions. So yes. So take Mashal. We had looked to acquire Mashburn some years ago. I love the brand I reached out to Pete Cashmore the founder, great guy. This was just last year or the deal. So we bought it last year too. Yeah. But some years ago I approached the company about buying and beat at the time chose to raise capital, and he did and he raised a Fairmont account. This is a property just to go way back that started off as a my space enthusiasts blah. He started when he was like twelve or something, and it's telling you how to modular my space, right, then became. Slake fantastically sorta successful nerdy tech specific site. And then over time intentionally tried to get much bigger and much broader. And that was the challenge. Right. I think when when we were having our original conversations, and it was a tech and digital oriented publisher. It was a profitable business. It was a great business. I think once they raised capital it changed their ambition. And so they went beyond that focus on Dettori. But more importantly, they went into a studio business, and they went into a business. Call velocity which was a software business, and I think was studio business meaning video content. We're going to make stuff, yes. For social platforms for the check books that have been out by content unit flexible by show from us. Correct. And so look I think what ended up happening. It went from a money making business to a money losing business and then over time all of those losses eight into the venture cash. Was on the balance sheet, and they're not a money. And so we look at it and say, okay, but wait a minute. If you go back in time, and if you reverse those decisions, it was a good nice core profitable business, and in inside of our portfolio. That's fantastic. So we're looking at a manageable. You say all right. It's a business with over many page views. Are you interested in the entirety of the business? Do you all we care about is specific part of that business because that's what we can attach affiliate adds to. Well, I think we in that case before you even got into adding affiliate revenue to it. Was there a profitable core? And the answer is. Yes, I mean, the the pro there was a profitable business that was inside of an unprofitable company. And so if you can reverse the decisions that made unprofitable and get back to the profitable core, your ready in a good place. And so that's what we did. Now, you layer in a new revenue stream in this case affiliate commerce, and you're in a great position so fast forward a year. Now, I think when we. We acquired Mashal their annual losses were an excess of sixteen million dollars a year. They are now a solidly profitable, you know, prime mid single digit millions business for us. It is I'm assuming you had to shrink that staff in order to get to that. Well, I mean, you'd had you've had to you know, you look for when you when I talk about reversing decisions he do that one or two ways you can try to sell pieces of the business off that you don't feel our core in this instance, they weren't really saleable assets. Or you make the decision that they're difficult decisions. But they're the right business decisions to narrow the workforce to focus on the core business. And so, yeah, you're almost shrinking to grow the business. But the alternative is a situation like Mike with business goes away entirely. Which would be a shame a brand like Mashburn. Well, should not have gone away. And thankfully, it did not go. Did you guys look at Mike? We didn't know. So why why look at a measurable, but not a Mike from very? Very very ten thousand foot perspective, they seem like similar their publishing on the internet. They're targeting younger people something different since right? One is mashed bullet established a profitable business. Right. So in its history as I said in profitable in the past it was and then decided to expand with venture money into areas that made it unprofitable, and you can reverse that. Yes. So that's a key difference. The second is if you going to participate in affiliate commerce, you need a brand that has some thority over helping inform some buying decisions Mashal has that. So when Nashville talks about the best VPN or the best headphones of the best, laptops, you'll pay attention. See you need a brand that can be attached to that kind of content. If you're going to be in the affiliate commerce business. So thirty in thing that also has affiliate commerce attached service journalism what we call service journalism when we were. I want to know what kind of headphones to buy Google when you get a list of ten results. One might be wire-cutters one mash Mashabela one might be the verge. Correct. You can make money by attaching adds to those recommendations, correct? So you you also looked famously made a bid for Gawker media when they were in bankruptcy, the stalking horse. You're the stalking. It didn't end up picking it up went to Univision. Correct. That's a whole other story now. But what was the plan had you had one that bit Gizmodo in life? Hacker to great brand tech side, and sort of generalized how to get things done. So. Yeah. So they were I think a perfect fit within our portfolio within our tech media portfolio. They had already started down the affiliate commerce path with something called Kinjo, which was really more a commerce content management system. God bless you. If you could explain that, Nick Denton tried for ten years. I think it was just basically technology to inform affiliate commerce. So they went down a path. We understood we thought we could exceleron that path. And so we were optimistic about our abilities with those properties. I think the rest of the properties were less of a fit trust. And we would have thought of ways possibly to you know, figure alternatives out for those. But we mow them off. Yeah. Yeah. And we've done that and other you know, we sold three businesses last year at j too. So we're not averse to that. It's gotta fit within the portfolio, but we really like those two brands, and we're like the price we were in it. I think if I'm not mistaken we were at ninety million dollars at that time. So it is you would have bought the entire portfolio. I think minus Gawker dot com. You would've been very interested in to those properties and figured out. What to do with the rest of them people? Forget this because Moto was the original property for Gawker Gawker came after his motto, right? When you buy an asset like a mash -able, or when you look at by an asset like a Gawker media, and they have a different culture than the j two's, if Davis culture, how do you think about how you're gonna figure out that transition how you're going to keep the people you want to keep from the the company you're buying look. I think it comes down to people wanna be in a position where they can succeed where they can win where we can invest where we can be on offense we can acquire. I mean, I think that's one of the things that's been very compelling to a lot of the people that we've acquired into the company and have stayed with us is they're able to leverage our balance sheet are cash to go and do more and build larger businesses. So so it sounds very rational. Right. But when you're talking, especially music media, right rural Delic lot of us are delicate flowers, and we think that our work is. Very important, and we're, you know, advocates of the first amendment, etc. And you go to somewhere like Ziff Davis Davis specifically like we have a model where we are gonna make money when people come to our site click on a link, and it's a good business can be very good business. It may not be sexy. It may not be interesting to someone at a cocktail party. It may not get covered in one of the teen media blogs. Do you have to sort of go to people say this is the new reality? Can you soften that blow for that? But I don't I don't think and I'm not asking them to think entirely about J to a massive thing about their brands you work at I g n. We acquired ITN. It was not a successful business. It had been a successful business, and we returned it to its par glory. So everyone who works at I gen feels like I work at a great brand. We did the same with the PC MAC PC MAG was bankrupt. Now the team there and a lot of those folks have been there for awhile field fantastic because they're part of a winning brand. I think the same as happening now at Mashal where you've got members of the team who feel really good about the fact that this is a successful profitable business that isn't going anywhere. It's very hard to imagine this when working with with the Gawker folks, especially when you see sort of what happened at Univision where they were theoretically more aligned, you know, cut to a year later, the the folks that Gawker slash Gizmodo, a writing really savage pieces about how F their owners are. I can't imagine that culture working with your culture. Yeah. Look, I think if it's if they perform and deliver results more satisfied, right? So we're I mean, you know, me enough that you know, we're not trying to impose some. Overarching corporate will one of the things I think we've done really well j two is let each of the brands determine their own paths with certain understanding around requirements around results at cetera in this discipline. But in the end, there's a self determination job. And then after you've done your job or as long as you've done your job. You can fly your freak like, yeah. I think that's absolutely right. And look, I know aditorial cultures. Right. I mean, I spent fifteen years at timing. And so we understand that fundamentally they wanna be in a position to do what they're here to do it if I can create an environment that allows. Allows these aditorial folks to write produce video audio whatever it is. And the way they want. They feel good about that right versus. I don't think people within our portfolio a worried about whether or not we're gonna make payroll whether or not we're going to be around in three months, and if you can the digital media landscape, there are a lot of people worried about whether or not their company's going to make payroll that is a very good theme. I return through and come back in just a second after here from fine advertiser. This is advertiser content. When disaster strikes affected families and communities. Call on aid organizations for relief and to help them rebuild their lives. We have responded to more than three hundred fifteen disasters around the world. 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Plus, they offer free shipping and free returns on all US orders. We can make that even better for fifteen percent off your first order, visit marine layer dot com. Enter the. Promo code, Peter at checkout, that's marine like marine and a layer the layer dot com, promo code, Peter. Record Leveque show CEO j two global we were just talking about the media landscape last year was rough seems like this year is going to be rough. I mean, if you were community genius to figure this out, right? If you were worried about where your money was going to come from last year that might be even more acute this year. One. What does that mean for your the existing business? You guys have I was looking at your last Q three looks like you were down a little bit on the media side. No overall up for the year. But I think the Q Q three was down year over year. No, no, no. Yeah. I think. Yeah. Absolutely. I blame it on my phone. Yeah. No. So we. Look we fundamentally we acquire businesses. The j two acquisition system is core to what we do. So we are entering into a market where we see some sort of deflation in prices that'll be good for us. So just to give you an order of magnitude over the last ten years, we have spent two point two billion dollars as a company acquiring companies. I think since our inception which is about two decades ago, we've acquired one hundred seventy companies so it is core to what we do. So for entering in two hundred environment. That is a buyer's market. That's fantastic for us in assuming that is going to be a lot of stuff out there. I'm sure a lot of stuff comes to you already. Think we kind of cover this. But just just lay it out one of the things that you most want to buy and one of the things that you wanna take a pass on. So look, I think that it was suing there's some things where there in the middle where like I don't wanna pay this for. But if it's offered basically new price, we have a an expression we use that we sort of paraphrase from Berkshire Hathaway, which is we buy fair businesses at great prices or great businesses at fair prices. And so what does that mean that means that there are businesses that you know, where the value is there where we see an opportunity to change something to create value. Whether that's the shrink to grow that we talked about the that's introducing a new revenue stream. And then there are businesses that are just fantastic businesses that we can throw fuel on the fire, and whether that's we can help them with marketing, whether that's we can help them with cross sell whether that's we can provide capital for them to pursue their ambitions. We'll look for those businesses too. And so a business like. That is cla or humble bundle or offers dot com. These are businesses that were fast going businesses when we bought them and all we have done is made them better, right, which is different than maybe some of the other properties that we were talking about where it was more of a turnaround situation. So we'll look across the landscape for opportunities. And ultimately the price that we pay is a function of where that businesses if you talk to the folks NBC at Comcast who up until a couple years ago, we're putting a lot of money into properties. Like this one media BuzzFeed they bought shares and snap. Now, they'll say is we're not very interested in companies that are dependent primarily in advertising. We're not very interested in companies that are Facebook dependent Google dependent are you in that same boat. Or is there a world where some of those things make sense for you. Look, it's case by case. Right. So I I think what they say is we really like commerce businesses. We like this consumers pay money for something. And and and we can partake in that. Look, I think, you know, ultimately, we look at every acquisition opportunity with one central question, which is can we create value? Right. And so and there are multiple ways in which we've created value. So it's hard for me to sort of say anything definitively like we will never do this. And we will always do this. It's case by case, and it should be right. And so we're very good at is identifying evaluating diligence ING transacting integrating acquisitions where we feel. We can create value such that it's got to be this where by owning the business. We have made it better. Right. That that we unikely can make about I assume there are two kinds of things coming across your desk. One is a Mike or a mash -able where we're we are out of money. We are going to have to close the door fair businesses a great price of X number of days. Like, someone isn't bias. We're going away. And then I'm assuming there's another buck. Bucket of people who say we business we can keep operating the business. It's just not what we thought it was going to be and or investors want out are those harder to make happen because you're trying to please different constituencies versus one thing as a fire sale in dollars dollar. I mean, again, look, I think transacting in general's never been easy, right? A lot of things have to line up. We tend to be very good at it. Because I think we very quickly come to a point of view and can move decisively and with integrity. And I think you know, we have good reputation when we transact that we behave. We behave the way we say we're going to behave. So there's no re-training. There's no sort of, you know, eleventh hour renegotiations that's not who we are. Because transactions are core to what we do so maintaining our reputation in the marketplace is critical. So no again, I think that in the third category of businesses, which really are these are great, fundamental businesses. They don't need to sell. But they recognize that if. They can get access to our balance sheet. Maybe they can go do something interesting. So let's talk about UCLA because we talked about it earlier speed speed Saint out if you if you Google speed test, if you've if because you your internet doesn't work as fast as you think it should maybe even downloaded the app because you're nerd like myself. You get that the little the gauge the gauge hit it and tells you your internet slow cracked so assume that you made money by showing me a banner ad there. You've told me I'm wrong. So step back and talk about the size of Okla. Sue cla has three hundred sixty million installs of its app all organic on various mostly phones. So that's an extraordinary statement people like me who put it on my own. So it's more than just a narrow universe of people. I figured I was really really narrow slice of nerd them. Because most people just go my internet doesn't work throw their phone. No. So three hundred sixty million installs the app. So when we looked at acquiring the company, you're right. It fundamentally. Ran programmatic ads so adds that it didn't sell that Google placed within the websites Batat not or within the app business. That's the business, and he was growing because the usage and the traffic was growing. So we looked at it. And we came to understand it because we were working with them on some editor real content. Oh, tell us the fastest is peas tell us the fastest mobile network. So we knew it was that's an interesting business. And so as we got to know them, we said, look, what are you doing with all of this information, you're sitting on this incredible view into broadband and into networks and into experience is just to be clear. Right. So me being frustrated with my internet speed other at work, or at home is somewhat is is interesting to a point to me. But if you multiply me times three hundred million people, and you know, what my internet will always internet speeds are in lots of different places, you know, where they are that becomes valley. But why well, I think the aggregated view, not the individual view, the aggregated view into the quality and performance of networks, and whether that's Verizon's network or Comcast network or Sprint's network or Vodafone's network. That's interesting to those sellers of broadband and allows them to understand where they're weak and where they're competitively disadvantaged. And so it actually helps all of us what it does is. It's kind of a rising tide lifting all boats, where we're helping these networks understand where they need to do better. So you buy that you have information that you're selling it. We sell subscription product the data as a service product, they get a real time view into the state of their networks versus their competitive set in. Territories by devices by operating system by time of day. There are a lot of variables that go into the experience. You have is a customer with the idea that it. Could inform their spectrum bidding. You know when they go into those auctions to bid on spectrum. It can inform their network investments can form a lot of things about the very product that they're selling that's valuable. So when we looked at who khloe said, okay back to where we started great business. Great natural growth rate great usage selling advertising, programmatic Lii. And now there's this other part of the business that we can layer into it. So UCLA as sellers to us like the vision had some concerns about investing to build the infrastructure loan company. Correct. We were building a business intelligence software platform. That's not what they did that takes capital. That's where coming into j to. We don't think twice that is a good capital investment. Then they had a list of companies down detector, mosaic echo companies. You may not have all that are. In this world of broadband intelligence that we have now acquired for okla- that are part of the business unit. So back to why does a new click it interested in j two they would not have made the investments, I think in the speed test intelligence products. That's what it's called the data service, and they certainly wouldn't have gone out and acquired the businesses that we've acquired for them, and that allows them to build something really special when I down in an era where people are particularly now. At least the press is particularly interested in privacy. I'm sure I've clicked the button that says sure this. Okay. I'm sure I also have not thought of why? No because I talked to about it. But I'm sure the ninety nine point ninety nine percent of people who are doing. This are not considering their data is being is gone up somewhere as being resold. Aggregated? It's not personalized are you concerned at all in an era with GDP are just an increase in privacy that a product. Like that takes information, and sort of resells it is is vulnerable in someone. Look, I think number one if you see the disclosure that we have it's very strong. It's very apparent. It's not hidden. And it's very clear what we're doing. I guarantee you that that we could walk around and find however, maybe be downloaded that app around here. And then of them have any idea what they've signed on for. He even though they've clicked. Yes. And they're intelligent people. And they'll look I think so as as far as how you would compare disclosures versus others. It's as good as it gets. Yeah. You may argue that no one ever looks at the that's that. I I can't solve human nature. But what are we doing? We're providing data to make your experience better. That I'm not targeting ads. We get a lot of inquiries into our data ad targeting for location data. We don't do that. We don't sell that. So our data business is not what you hear about with a lot of other companies where they're essentially selling your information. So someone can target an ad against you. That's not what we're doing. Are there other quiz up there? So that's the only when you're going to buy in that category where things where you can take maybe consumer behavior and figure out a different way of monetize in the new traditionally done. It's a great question. And it is thank you the one is it is when we start to think about the different models. We like, how do you find properties on the internet that have an engaged audience where the exhaust of what they do is a body of information that a company would find very valuable. Not for at targeting but to run their business exhaust, meaning the data. That's picked up in the transit. Yes. And that's an interesting perspective. Right. I mean, we have fundamentally we have audiences would try to extract rent from these audiences historically, the main rent was an ad, but there are. Attention. I put an ad in front of it. That's transaction. And you get that. Whether you've thought it through whether it's just the way, you've always, that's right. But can that audience by virtue of what they're doing in form business intelligence that's one product, and then the other piece of this which is a good segue to our humble bundle. Transaction is can we sell a subscription service to our audiences? That is not put a paywall in front of the thing. You were getting for free. I've never heard of humble bundle until I was looking at your here. Q three was morning, which apparently misread anyway. It is a fantastic business. So it is a subscription service where you get access to a trove of games video games. And every month, we give you a handful of new games. And so you pay this one fee think of it almost like a subscription video James version of this has been there's been subscription gaming's. But this one is done pretty well. And I think the reason it's done. Well, is that they've got a great perspective on which games to include each month. We also finance our own games. We have proprietary games that are humble games that come into our service. So it's a little bit. Like, you know, when you start to think of like a net flicks you start with licensed content, and then you start to move into original content. We sort of done a very similar thing. But the important thing is to it's a it's a great business on its own. They've done a fantastic job. But we have I g n which has the largest audience of gamers worldwide. So instead of saying as many publishers have done, well, how do we charge? Our users for something. They're already getting which is the continent. I Jan we're not doing that. We're seeing leverage audience coming in here. Say a paywall. Yes. Or we're not going to call it a pay while we're going to call it a at affinity group in we're going to give you extra to right. You pay us know what we're saying is we have the service over here. And we're going to. Get it. So when you look at most subscription businesses, the number one expense marketing acquiring subscribers that is the number one expense. You will see in most subscription business. You're doing the math how much pain to acquire this. This is how long are they gonna stick around customer versus the lifetime value. Right. That is the CAC versus LTV equation that is the formula of subscription businesses. What happens when your cat goes down though, because you're an owner of audiences, and that's our other epiphany. So when we think about our media businesses, we think about what subscription services can we build or acquire that are of interest to our markets into our audience is so that we can have a Whealy attractive caq LTV equation. So that is different. So when a lot of media companies talk about we're going for subscriptions. They're really talking about trying to get. Their users to pay for something that has historically been free tough. That's hard. Oh, getting paid for that was free a month ago right on this very site. It's not just information. It's the information used to get for free. We're not gonna charge you pay that's hard. But doing what we're doing that I g n and humble bundle is attractive. So that is another model where we think about what other subscription services are out there that somebody else's invented that when plugged into our re him would normally have to pay. I g n to advertise that business is on the business. You're saving money precisely it's want to go back to the thing. We talked about at the beginning of the year or beginning of this conversation. We had David Carey here a year ago, he was running Hearst the time saying, these businesses are all these digital media. It's easy to say it's easy to lose money in a digital media business, and I'm going to buy you and all your air on shares collectively partially, right? Do you think that rate of failures slash consolidation is going to celebrate this year? Well, let me start by saying I don't want anyone fail. So we don't root for people to fail said. No. And look I think that fundamentally I'd much prefer to be buying healthy businesses, and you don't want you don't want distressed asset buyer. I just wanna be viewed as a crater of value in the acquisitions that we do we won't create value die, and we won't create value. That is is an excess of what anyone else could do with the asset. I can tell you that in the end when you can get a fundamentally healthy business at an attractive price. That's the most optimal occasion. So that's what we'd rather have a month. You know, are you rubbing your hands together saying all right? This is the time to buy again, we buy all the time. So from my point of view, every market upmarket down market, flat market, where acquires I mean, if again, if you look at J two's history, if you look at the digital media portion of to the non digital media portion Ajay to we transact, that's what we do. So whether the market is a good market or bad market. We're gonna find opportunities. That's what we're good. So I don't sit here and think too much about things going to be able to control which is the marketplace in the end again, I'm simply saying my preferences. I'd rather have quality businesses that we can get at reasonable prices. What's life like for you running a public company that again, most people wanna think this includes Wall Street haven't heard of at time Inc. You're rising star. I probably heard slash Sawyer day. More often, you'll probably on more panels. Yeah. I think you relatively anonymous right now is one of the reasons cited to have you here. How important it is for you to have increased profile other for yourself or for the company if it's a benefit torch shareholders than it's important, right? And so I think the way I've approached myself in this last year's the CEO which to and it's only been one year is very much just focus on results focus on getting to know Archer holder base and our analyst universe, and and I've known them. But. Not certainly in this seat. And so that's been super important. I think what we wanna make sure of our that those who invest in public companies who would consider buying a of j com, which is which is our ticker symbol that the information's out there for them to make an informed choice. That's important, but there's some sales in this. Right. You do need to sort of Ray. I mean human beings are human being. And if they haven't heard of the company, and you need to start explaining to them with the company is that is a harder sell than if the, oh, I I I know. Building awareness of the company. Amongst those stakeholders is important. So I wouldn't dispute that getting personal recognition and and seeing my name out. There doesn't look Recode media pug has come on all because hug, Peter. Thank you know. Now, this is going to you're going to zip right up. Most admired seats. Listen. I, you know, again, there are plenty of great companies that produce terrific shareholder returns that like us are very much focused on results and less focused on press unless focused on bringing attention to ourselves if you look in the media industry, this seems to be a correlation between the things that have most buzz and working least seemed to be highly correlated. I'm not going quietly. So I don't know I, you know, I I don't think we need to over think it. But to your point, look, you're right. We're probably I've said this. We are the largest internet company that many people have never heard of. I mean at four billion dollars of enterprise value. That's a public number. That's on a made up number. It's a real number. We get reprised every second of every day is a public company. Yeah. This should be more awareness of what we're doing. And how we're doing it. But I will tell you that. I think those in the media industry in the internet business, even in the public markets. Think awareness is increasing. I think you're going to see your Werner's increase passed. So I'm glad I was able to help affect thanks for coming on great to be here. Thanks to you for listening. We love that you listen. Even more. If you tell someone else about this show, you know, how to do that. So please do that. If you're feeling extra generous review on apple podcast or wherever you listen to fine podcasts. Most particularly this one. Thanks to our sponsors. Thanks to Kate thirteen invokes media. They sell ad. So you can listen to Recode media for free Joe Robbie EDA's this show. He's awesome. So my producers gold, Arthur Eric Johnson, you the Rico media audience. You are the most awesome of all. We'll see you next week. Hello, Recode media listeners. This is enthusiastically telling you that I'm going to be at south by south west and March perhaps I'm there right now as you're listening to this. If you're going to be there, maybe there right now, you should go to the deep end by vox media. That's our experiential space, which means it's a space. You can hang out and do cool things like drink and listen to live music at the Belmont. Which is a ten minute walk from the Austin convention center. Friday, March eighth through Sunday March tenth will be hosting a series of live podcast musical spotlights. Eater approved food and much more. I'm going to be there. Cara Swisher is going to be there. The host of the verge cast. You're going to be there and boxes the wheat. We will have a bunch of cool special guests, I'll be interviewing Mark Cuban care is going to be interviewing VC Arlan Hamilton the folks from the ringer will be there. They've got a couple of surprises coming for you. It mission is free. But space is limited. So you've got to register if you wanna show up here. How you do it? You can RSVP at vox media, events dot com slash s X S W sounds more complicated than it is. It's vox media events dot com slash s s w you can also look at my Twitter because and all that information up there for you to look at it. It mission is free. But space is limited. So don't wait. I will see you there.

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Disconnected 014: Late Mechanics

Disconnected

1:21:37 hr | 2 years ago

Disconnected 014: Late Mechanics

"Nice i'm glad and then my car i so that is the beginning of the puck back back back back back back actually i don't like that who's just my backside of freaky carrying this fucking and work with john ross had first young got sick after initial podcasts yeah so yeah where john just falling apart for old were fifty six were like do we a what sixty but yeah collectively our over sixty collectively there or be sixty or sixty collectively that's true i forgot you yeah so there's that there's that anything outside a work nonsense mr john 'em so let's see what's been going on a on a kind of a size a head and check the scaling while and i've lost like a total of almost twenty founds but highs i i think i'd lost fifteen since i hurt my back yeah man on fucking it's kind of nice i'm doing that constant jim thing feels feels good man it's nice that i can go and i saw the little bit of a belly but it's not that fucking pudge i had to where i could almost go economic go straight down a little lower nether regions without like a huge ask mountain in the way of doing i would never like fat bad but i did all this idea of got for a while the fatty come into those v v cuts like brothers you and high school there you go yeah what else has been going on fox brands have been such a blur eleven i think it is eleven days straight yeah no i mean this other girl were checked are clock were both at a hundred hours for the paycheck truly that shit hundred fucking hours hell yeah but they also you should be alright though now it's gonna be pretty stellar you know why it's gonna have money john ones that are tx shit so we haven't been able to tell you in a timely matter and by the time you guys are by the time you guys are hearing this already gonna be later this week so you were gonna biotechs tickets come see us but you might have already major agenda by now you know speaking which we got the governor that's what i forgot hoops will will talk about that after them oh we did not a but yeah so but yeah are you guys have you guys are gonna be there we will be there on july fifth so we're not gonna be this is the old con very much debate it but at this point 'em it kind of seems like the better called the disney one day for now yeah although we were gonna make a better day right oh well pretty cool i mean i saw rooster teeth tweeted out be other day that 'em stupor is gonna be free for anyone who had happened today so checkout stupor could be cool or they will be i like kumail nanjiani and drax isn't it yes racks combo 'em you know they they tried to make it seem like he didn't say fuck but he did say fuck in the area of each other yeah no that's pretty cool but yeah you know were going day one so a hidden hit him hard and strong and then next year will probably do the whole thing what we do the whole damn thing but there will be coming to you live in documenting it so if you guys can't join us or you can't make it rt x which i bring are kicks to you you're going there will be around absolutely see it a one thing that we will be at for sure that i didn't ask you guys we will be live podcast recording for catholic superbeets they're very they're very first a live episode as castle super be so exciting we gotta be making history with them in person and we will be meeting and to become the cast to be either the signing or recordings will be there and we hope to see you guys they're still in there you go okay what have you been up to oh before before we got it is actually good john and i have a section each coming up in a second to a surplus how about you know how about the fact that even though oh yeah i did you serve that 'em should probably stop was really the the dialogue is altered so no okay she was wearing that because the captions and the dialogue are fucking completely off well that's and then also just the fact that they change contacts and several things 'em 'cause i'm only original over once original in the original eva like tyler ruin shinji courtroom in shinji you're kind of into each other or at least a cow drew is obviously like gave gingy to the bully answer the no no he's a great one the great one and the the kid 'em but basically they took just give an example of what they change where apple they were done but they changed since basically a without giving an exact quote 'cause i kind of thing that i shouldn't run that scene but just to give an example it would be like any original end you guys you guys gonna take this contact with you guys want because it'd be like i love you it'd be like maybe like you know john i wouldn't notice the turn into this is actually better so the crops out into whatever they wanna put it so basically be like being like a you know hey john you know i see you see me i think there should be a thing 'em blah blah blah not really but let me just give me an example clearly me yeah yeah no yeah you got the reverend feels pretty good a and then 'em some sort of like that right and then in the netflix version it's just like hey man i see you being a good friend out there all my friends 'em then that friends stuff that we should be doing that threatens can we do coming up next we had a row couple that maga enemy netflix adaptation mean for this but yeah that's great because there's a lot of backlash 'cause i wasn't able wants and that was like twenty years ago now and fucking to nami i think it was more i'm wondering i don't remember if this is eight or not is is he still gonna just in her hand and that one scene right so that's in that is they and yelling and you're thinking of the run out of me and i don't think they're gonna do that okay 'cause i remember me over the odds you heard that right but the fucking yet stuck with a lot of people man but see so they're basically netflix is gay censoring even galleon which is weird because netflix has also been praising the path ver very pro gay stuff in orange and then you block and yeah they're just one of those things like i don't even think like you know like when you told me a little notch x came out on my own okay cool yeah it's a weird leasing when the same company that is being who wrote about it and several other productions took a third party saying that has that already without their consent and then that's it it's weird i learned a lot in the cartoons i guess according the netflix i guess i dunno seems like that's what they're going to fucking guy max yeah basically a but i'm still kind of like i'm hiked like like i'm a big guy next guy next series like a little garin logging cody and all that was technically the student who did that but yeah okay 'em but yeah no i i'm glad it's back but i heard they haven't heard a spin out crash backlash pelosi when the real life not live action cowboy bebop ooh fulfilling will have a very long time back that the backlash a caveman so in the last couple of weeks we talked about the regular stuff and i live in a video game stuff first on minner john and bloodstained we're gonna go ordered released how did that go frames john has been treating yeah 'cause i haven't gotten to yet because i've been all get the my pilot without giving too many spores away soil every but definitely critique it give it you're you're the drone i mean i love it a i dunno looks i i heard there was like some i think it was a correct me if i'm wrong but i think it would hurt talk who said that the combat lose repetitive and they're just kind of not gray but i you know kentucky says that because they may have but as far as i know no professional out let said anything bad about it per say other than the visuals really what'd you earn okay i know well i'm gonna say but then again a lot of people i trust like the visuals so but all i'm saying is from what i've heard is most of the professionals it has it has a good metacritic 'em only it's only back by the combat because i feel like it's so true the castle mania from what i've gathered third a you know a second hand is that to say that the combat is bad and bloodstained would be to say that doug gameplay and cast sylvania is bad period we're since the same like that's what they may have such i know i'm probably misquoting but it was one of those 'em but still outlet like yeah man i don't know where that came from because it's not bad it's not deprived jeff like seventy tonight so to me that was my you know you only means you don't like get the needle activities and i it's exactly that i mean i feel like i just played civilians symphony like maybe a month or two ago yes that's what i'm playing here a i'm a little confused as to cause any original book and you know you get all four from all most of these characters are present but i don't know if i'm gonna get to play them by getting beat up at data lovely a cause that suddenly there were some over you've been i think i'm not sure early expanded story but it does follow election then he does so you've been you know finished the game or you could finish the game yet metric mania stuff yeah 'em integrate a the war panels of their their z annoying distance between a save rooms an extremely difficult a an enemy types a so 'em you know it follows like a regular castle vein again the word brings it there and there's b m same distance of difficult tickled enemies between save spots a so that that keeps that frustration alive you know you're struggling to get through but it's fun i'm i'm enjoying it a boss is a cool story is not not original a but but it's interesting enough to where you know if you're not the if you don't play a lot of these kind of games review story times you'll be mildly surprised i guess bottom yeah it's it's like it did get in so what i heard like i said i know that was the first hand account secondhand account time from what i've heard a state street the castle being a series of it so clearly a a castle vania sequel in another name because conomic sucks to a shadow but yeah but that's good that's good here though on my end of things the reason i haven't been blamed bloodstain is because all my free time has been consumed by judgment 'em so rpg studios and say good dropping the latest installment is a series of spin offs title a judgment i dropped the first impressions video of it the very quickly basically what i'm gonna say is that it follows the story of eight detective named gummy had his kind of like crew who consists seven x 'em yakuza end as well as his former law office is gonna be involved in a lot of this stuff and he's going into a trying to solve the mystery of eighty serial killing that's going around seventy severi opposite had been found around town with their eyes gouged out of ammo of the murder of her 'em end the police obviously are looking into to heart because who cares yuppies are killing up as a as far as they see it they make their job easier yeah but you got me is about through truly you know finding justice 'em backstory essentially why he's a detective and i call him a former lawyer his background in this is explained in the trailer and then being the first few bits so it's not spoiler the scenario right now but basically you got me was a up and coming lawyer who got they alleged killer off less she's gotten alleged killer off the hook a n proof is true innocence or you know at least from what you're gone came up with a only to have that person three months later killed his girlfriend and burn down the house that they were in a so who you gummy of course feel guilty for the fact that the person that he got off the hook committed a very clearly now you know from what was before proven reasonable doubt went to commit a very clearly he orders a killer i he basically sees it as his girlfriend getting killed and being his fault so he resigned as a lawyer and opened up the detective agency where he works with the x kyko and they go and they're trying to solve this mystery look into it and of course as many as the style games go these main story is series is all hell utah it has it's nice a crime loss thriller very serious that's the thing about the series is whether it's catering a measure must journey in yonkers or now here with me in judgment 'em dizzy main story is completely serious there's nothing funny about the main thing a you go into to drug rings prostitution murder you know everything about is honored percent serious whereas you go to the site stories and you're trying to do for example one of my favorite a quest that you go through is there's a this girl and her brother 'em late high school early college go up to you and ask you to go after this trio of sex a sex predators who keep harassing his sister now in context obviously that's very dark 'em that's obviously not a light a thing but adds a side quests what they do to lighten it up and then you add a little bit of humor 'em in the sense that since the brother and sister twins they got confused each other so light spoiler for a side quest you guys could skip ahead for about thirty seconds you'll miss this the second guy in the in the trio is they a former track star and she has his thing is he grabs girls hassles and that's what he did to the guy sister and his name is ask caption and that is the name of of the villain so a catch him as you have to catch him a is it's it's just up like that that really cracks me up and then as you go after him and the fact that he actually called himself that is pretty funny it's very obvious a in in in that little side because they do or where the joke because even gummy is like really he called himself that knowing movie reference because it's that take place in twenty eighteen japan so ask ketchum is that just come out mix both together ask ketchum is very much i mean come on come on japan yeah one of the biggest dominoes in the world is not so it's very clear that he knows about this and they do stuff like that i talked about that in my first impressions videos well but i've always appreciated yakuza as a type of humor in in a being self referential but not making it doesn't age well even yakuza zero which takes place in the in the eighties a more curious still a super young buck but basically they have a lot of references the game being having been made in twenty fifteen sixteen or whatever they very much are able to kind of do what i like to call future references where basically there's a side quests where you meet a guy who talks it's about who he he's carrying one of the very first cell phones at last thirty seconds it's a big bulky bag with a with an attachment and stuff like that but he basically he goes like man this is this is the future a people are gonna you know have their phone them all the time it'd be able to just talk to each other whenever they want and then of course you know you have curia being like what yeah no that's never gonna be a thing people are just gonna have their phones on them all the time and using old whenever they want but obviously the joke being there jesus so oh fucking yeah well looking at the actual sorry oh yeah he's looking at so that's been around yeah a man so you know stuff like that and then in this game they kind of do that but not twenty eighteen right so you have this you have the self referential humor now in that sense where you have like this offer example a the way you're gonna find some of his people sometimes as one of his cohorts teaches him is look through social media everyone is so self centered and talks about their days and everything all the time but it's all public information not easy to find people telling you where they're gonna go oh so you tried in one of the cycling track someone down so you check their imposter twitter whatever they call it now it's also funny when they do that for example they have a parody of kickstarter and they're called quick starter so yes stuff like that but anyway oh so you since like an actual like a similarly of twitter right okay so it's like that and you're looking to the hashtag then everything and basically they have self referential stuff like a lot of susie what references today's times quote unquote because when this game came out it was late twenty eighteen japan and it takes place in late twenty eighteen japan to kind of go citing into windows released to make you to give you that feel of this is actually happening at the moment but basically one of the tweets would say something like just met up with so and so like she's going like an idol corporate whatever doesn't matter so so is a a first date he's looking like a snack and that kind of language and kind of like internet humor you have people saying like you know there's there's a guy you mean a restaurant who talks about the idea that the guy has a being a calling it'd be absolute madman and just the type of light means and stuff that have been used before so anyways i dragged along point to the fact that they do that but no saint mary and doing a full review right now in the cast one thing i will say is you shot as progressive the story there's a minor gang joins the pictures that basically does the rate on the town every once in a while it happens a little too often gets kind of annoying because if you don't i guess it's completely optional but when it's when it's active when that a that mode is active you run in the gangs news more often than not you're walking around it's just annoying you were just trying to close out of the way we forget the storyline it's a little impeding of it it does have its flaws i don't like that i don't like the fact that even when you return to a building you've been before you have to still system you're keys to use the right one i feel like stuff like that could have been cut out and a the game would actually benefited from it but one thing i do not mind that i heard several people complain about including jim sterling is they lock picking many games in more when did oblivion i was very good at them i tend to be pretty good at lost games in most that have like the manual you know the the the the obviously it wasn't me what the fuck i just did i'm doing a motion for hitting the pins on the television and the right thing where you don't it'll reset everything i'm very good at this many games but several people i guess they're not good at it or they just don't care but the type of game play that's one of the main grass i've heard is that so basically there are a few little things that hurt but it's a few good things that they have is well aware 'em they you know like the the use of the drug you have a drone and the use of its action pretty useful and investigations and you could do drone racist which is really fun 'em but again like i said in my first russia's video and the final thing i'm gonna say on it is that it was very necessary that the differentiate judgment because then there'd be no point in and exist why have a spin off if it's exactly the same i think the game is a very good job of being absolutely perfectly familiar you've been going going through this town coming up show when graphical upgrades over the time but this is the same city you go through the same city in the cause of games since two thousand five you've never watched the fucking city you're talking about other cities and talk about tokyo you talk about wherever else but the game since two thousand five in all the games and spin offs with exception of fits and starts off 'em hasn't been a couple of rojo so at this point i've been playing the game since twenty thirteen twenty fourteen some of the last five years i've been in the city it seems so familiar it's great players you got me in the protagonist playing the detective instead of yuccas but they're now none of actual if they didn't go ham on the references because none kill you and all them even appear in this they're not even reference they're not at a cameo nothing i thought there might be but the written and anyway so you got me a playing as this new character but you gameplay stops yeah they took karaoke out and that's one of the fun the best many games in the series but again what would have been the point of him if he did have a different mechanics better or worse and most of the time it's for better so definitely check it out bloodstain judgment both get disconnected thumbs up so that's not a painful disconnected sums but anyway so you're you're so yeah it guitar seal of approval there you go let's get right into the previous needs so we gotta her first we're gonna cover the news that happened while we were out and then we're gonna talk about like what would very much like exactly the format that we did when i was hurt and then we gotta talk about the current news scoop where network period postie three no games they're trying to be over shown by three right now so there's not much announcements is more so just what's happening in the world and industry as opposed to what's new because everything we talked about any three so the developers of assassin's creed odyssey talked about how after the same fucking game over and over and over again how finally changing it up but keeping familiar enough worked out for them and that's why assassin's creed origins was good but this is a different team networking odyssey but they basically took woodward and start indeterminate change and really perfected in honesty and they talked about how this really revamping save the series which was admitted admitted lee getting pretty stagnant even in the eyes of a bit so there's that and a i thought it was really cool today leasing knowledge that and let's hope they continue because origins of odyssey greatest adventure games i'm tired of this fucking years wherever they really like are four and 'em for 'em so you know five is fine you know a like those little she likes where which happens oh yeah those were pretty good spin off one in china and russia a bear so they they found their stride again unless something big and continue in a really really good point on that i feel like a lot of games kind of news a similar template nowadays like a almost said rpg what's to framework that framework 'em the tropes basically or like the skeleton at each other like framework idea i'm driving when you're writing a paper used a template yeah yeah but i mean it's not bad thing it's just kind of i don't feel too much of a differentiation outside of a good story but that's that's just me fairness and in your points are definitely valid for criticizing i just think that they finally found that mix between self action rpg pg finally released on her new audit which is good and obviously in playoff secret origins fucking great fun very very good what's not fun is nintendo continues to be very disconnected from reality and what people actually want so on the last podcast i believe about the supermarket maker to news where they talked about how this is gonna be online play but you won't be able to play with friend somehow so let me do that because he somehow sabotage the sacred leaderboards because one am lg game super mario maker to is and that was their biggest certain and that's why they won't have it i'm sure they're gonna have centrally remedy that full hope 'em two years time they do that you know they have problems like that of course they had this thing where you had easier phone app to talk because it's fucked building check into the actual game which is open discord exactly this court is amazing it's it's been one of the best things happen some day yeah it's great and you know it's the perfect mix of chat for voice so there's that and i don't know why they wouldn't do that but nintendo reactions in the previous news nintendo continues the state disconnected from reality because guess what they're not gonna have full on cloud saves animal crossing again that you're gonna pour hundreds of hours into and you could potentially lose all that progress just by losing and breaking you're switch why once again not leaderboards because it doesn't really matter more than animal crossing they're scared manipulate oh no you're gonna have double the berries because you're gonna have to switches and one's gonna be off line all the time but then you have the get online but you're gonna use the basically there's a non issue as a lazy with extra steps it's just to me it's more work they take it out like the the infrastructure frame would do it carries on the polk about having their issues i don't i don't care i love it i'm gonna get it but i just disappointed in it's almost become a habit right oh whoa whoa talking about this is gonna be so they're gonna have the hulk hogan home thing where they're gonna have they're gonna add closeted even pika chew despite not having it in there for the same reasons that animal crossing and then he's not gonna have it but now they're gonna have it because they're gonna add it but the thing that that people a little tilted about poke him on at least they poke along fanatic is the fact that this game will not allow you to have all the focus on and that is what everyone is you know a little perturbed about a people of course hoping that when the game launches that will go ahead and eventually have all that well i have the answer for you right now because the poke amman producer what's his name are totally forgot his name his name is a journey jima sada already confirmed that pocahontas orange field does not have all the coconut in it nor will it ever have all the cooking on it so if you're pipe dream was that in the future they're gonna know he's already confirmed they're gonna try to put as many as they can because they're gonna have that makes the models they're gonna have to make only animations they're gonna have to do all that stuff things things up on this and they're not gonna have all them because it's too much work that's not what he said but i mean you know but regardless he does say that he hopes that people will still go ahead and play the game anyways but you know if you don't want to that's fine i guess a see this is one of those things he knows were gonna do it do it yeah we we know we're gonna do and so yeah my fucking bugs bunny seventy seven has a few news now they talked to several things they talked about how they're gonna have more romance options and even the witcher three which already has like a trillion romance options so there's that shit yeah they talked about how they're going to have any non binary a they're gonna have a season a gender less class not female or male classmates clause race in option in the game so you don't have to be male or female you're gonna be a neutral razor whatever they're gonna call it in the thing susan they are they're already they're all they're doing this weird thing where a sea of red is in the past already been proven to be semi homophobic a they've used 'em gay community hash tags in a joking manner a they view they otherwise the controversy around the the trans imagery that necessary tried imagery in their latest footage all that'll say a could be construed scrooges being guests coming across his comedic which is which is why which is why it was under fire that that's the whole point of why got controversies was because it wasn't done in a serious life too i mean i guess that would be like having an uncle tom in your game blatantly being an uncle tom so i could see worthy outrageous coming from where we say that is that okay goes out and says i mean that's what they would be putting in the game so yeah we're so it'd be like doing that 'em so i see where the backlash is coming from a weather i mean it's whatever it's but they seem to kind of digging their whole deeper by continuing to try to appeal to the l g b t community despite being kind of lgbt community 'em so it's weird so they're doing a lot of this stuff they put the trans thing that failed now they're trying to do the the the genderless gender and then that's probably gonna fail the way i see it is that as long as you're not slurring an entire group or slandering them make a game if you're a game is gonna be all white people as long as you're doing it because you're a racist then just do it everything doesn't have to be the power rangers for the cast you know what i'm saying like my okay let me let me tell you this discussing today about a max tame the movie versus max playing the game which is predominantly all white people but was it i think ludicrous isn't max paying the movie oh is he thinks so 'cause the cast and it's the first to be sure but it's like why like why i get it you wouldn't be inclusive but like you said if you're not being exclusive to the point where you're trying like on purpose yeah exactly like you're caught in a worst go out of the way exactly they're now that's what i'm saying to me pandering is missing the point yeah exactly they're just trying to hurt including for inclusion sake state is not a good thing that's all i'm saying i'm not gonna not see a movie i play a game 'cause there's no filipinos in it because guess what i wouldn't be playing fuck all it's so fucking delivery over there right now sitting in life because i think the girl is chinese i'm not sure she is she is right he's in a lot of that has a lot to do is is like the tense at fort night thing it has a lot to do with hollywood being owned by the chinese were so i figure ersan but yeah anyway but what about her though i feel because i felt like okay well she's chinese and then you have the almost token black guy military black guy there and then like the growth kind of looks like round on but is not it just felt like i was thinking like wow that's pretty diverse cast but it's something you know what i mean you gotta have a japanese prison yard of asian people in the godzilla movie that gators say right is but looking ninety seven got to that's what i'm gonna say so you have that whatever that's that's all that right but the shooting but let's look at the reasons but let's look at ninety percent of the godzilla movies where they're all japanese yeah is that racist of totally no of course not to the point where i don't wanna get into that but my whole thing is it's kind of funny right how one way is wrong and then other anyways we just made me think like cyberpunk just be good that's all we just don't do it on purpose yeah if it fits fits don't because now you're gonna get more for it and then you went out of her way to do it and then of course they also did say that they were gonna be witcher three celtics passion for it you know rather than just little tiny dlc that last ten minutes each of these massive expansion bring me a hundred and eighty yards a game plan speaking of a hundred eighty hours the gameplay probably if not more automatically seven continues to shape up and look amazing you know you had me when it was announced five years ago being a fucking absolute narcissist but as of late i've been more of a defender because now people are getting a little too twist on it when i'm like guys like i wasn't arses but you guys are being fuck heads right now by like complaining about it to me the way the game is right now looks fantastic 'cause it's gonna be it took everything from advent children which isn't much and kept that graphically on their models better stay true to the final fantasy seven world original one that know where it seemed like the point where they see arkan's and predicted fans concerns that it was gonna be lacking that'll give you a reader's digest version and people were gonna miss the political and like powerful moments of the narrative but now it really seems like they're gonna take their time and then even though the game's gonna take several years the police were talking about well into the ps five to wrap up now it could be very good were talking about a lot of content coming here so chapter one which original is planning a trilogy now they said they don't know how many episodes it's gonna be 'cause they wanna do it right and i'm all for that first chapter is gonna be chapter one which is going to be mid gar the very first section that takes place now i last time you were very taken aback about how early mid gar is where i talked about how mid guard the halo is the spaceship in the beginning of halo wilder bottom yeah that's gonna be all they're gonna they're gonna do such a massive job of that that that's gonna take place all chapter one how big is this game gonna be the director already talked about is gonna be to blue right this is gonna be as big if not bigger than red dead redemption to one of these literal biggest games that are out there automatically seven gotta take on that burden and do that so that means we may have this huge caliber explored exploitable world wackadoo even more cool mini games and explore mid guard and be in that shit like always dressed up as a kid being like man i wish i had like you know gca three graphics gonna run around and do all this stuff or like you know in run around in this massive world now that actually maybe i think the game is gonna be huge and of course they revealed cheapest design at least we finally got a see hertie three and they addressed something very interesting a the director addressed the fact that her breasts and been reduced certainly original like triple d cups that they were in original series is to now a more reasonable size to what would work for a so basically they talked about how they're ethics department which is an actual thing in their company a wanted to make her realistic very much what they did with laura crossing rework and they a reboot and then again in the reboot reboot reboot 'em because explaining themselves very specifically that fifa is a bodybuilder type character is she finished her breasts in lieu getting implants couldn't naturally be tripled these that's not really the side but i mean in her character model and this item basically what they look like they're like double they they couldn't literally be that big if the rest of her format her background brown doesn't support the fact they'd be swinging around like that so they basically and i think that they did they did her design very well it's a good mix of a on all designed with a few refreshes that are very very nice and i think i'm happy the way she came out so no one really no wonder how although there is a little bit of crime a crime about that from the four chan boards are gonna say so they're out what i was gonna say before you enter which before you asserted that which is so there hasn't been any actual backlash that's where people a firm human beings on this but they decided to go ahead and explain that any way despite the fact that there hasn't been any opposition designed at all to which is good 'em who cares well i mean like it it wouldn't be a you gotta under well i mean i could see she would care it would be like turning eaters elvis character in the wire and do a white person in in a remake it's altering the character that 'cause we got the signature the signature like it wouldn't be like it'd be like you know if you had it would be like if you had a guy who hasn't iconic hair color what's a character lucifer jokester no that's not my commentary color purple purple purple black is it must be black actually but they just did that to make it look more popping when the say i can't come to mind who's a character that hasn't icon i care so the joker like green there you go okay it would be easy equivalent it's part of design is character design real having big breath change would be like the joker coming back and having purple pink hair at environment that some of the bigger part like not even joke like not nineteen ninety eight nineteen ninety six in video games aside laura croft anti bugs who it's hard to tell because they're two different types of models moorhead those how many how many times actors how many characters had large breasts versus now in twenty nineteen i can't remember something that looks like so there wasn't and that's the thing so given the time periods and now it's like saying oh back in nineteen eighty that was relevant but you know now it's not well yeah but look at the first part of the sentence back in you know type of action or thing was very big and relevant in nineteen eighty it may not be now but the change that if you're doing a remake of a piece if you're gonna do miami vice no one wants to see the millennial version of miami vice you know what i'm saying like so it's one of those things where it was part of her designed to the point where it was a character traders as berry is black t big pitch and that's part of her design so the change it was a very risky call but i love the redesign and i think they did a very good job because given body ratio to her body type they're still out there and they're still you for what they are appropriate size so to me it's gonna they did that just like they did lurk off the redesign when then really well 'em should have been to biddies will like it doesn't look ridiculous yeah they talked about the battles system being very much like a feature games a it's gonna be done by the director of a king the action director kingdom hearts to which is a good job one of the things i go fuck about in the kingdom are series is that the battle system into is good so they're gonna be mixing the thought of as he fifteen kingdom hearts used battle a mix of real time and the turn based kind of mixing it together very cool kind of keeping loyola keeping a fresh because let's be fair one of the things that interior but when i've been revisiting final fantasy seven recently as a tournament combat the little now so it's nice to give a bit of an update i think it'll make the game for really well for what you're seeing visually to what you remember so were hoping a i also very curious to see nbn people digging out by about five episodes maybe a if it's still a trilogy fine but those it could be massive trilogy after mid gar jesus you still have so much more to do so there's a lot but hopefully it'll be good it seems like a really will be using clown so gonna get gang styled whether nudes oh so it seems like they're just so that that will definitely be in this part because they end of it shouldn't be that amid going that happens in garson he should he should fire early on okay hopefully hopefully 'em a of course at the time that all that news came out i wanna talk about how the final fantasy soundtrack same the spotify apple music ea wandered enjoy the great outdoors 'cause that is one of the great things skews me about fancy series isn't soundtrack to do yeah exactly i miss and making music for it i mean music and fourteen in on is still pretty good but he just killed it and it's like jeremy sole in a in a moral ended up living soundtracks scarves composer did did a pretty good job but moro in in oblivious object just they just knock it out of the park especially more when someone in my favorite of all time as more o'donnell from the original hills yep so we talked about telltale games being delisted a because of the company collapsing right so that's continuing the happen so if you wanna get them physical copies because something like this might happen i recently my grab story mode has been pulled some people's course down that don't keep up with the news twice you listen disconnect the cats every monday at eleven am just the latest in video game news because you would have known when we've been talking for a while now that this would have happened while people were upset by that microsoft interesting whereas on other storefronts a playstation network stephen alleged gone what they do in my story mode is they went ahead and reenlisted it and the cover rights cost so i'm assuming they did say this is why but i'm assuming they went ahead and put these episodes back i believe it's four five episodes for a hundred dollars a piece you could actually by then 'em my a micro as a as a page for my story mode did say please do not pyatt for that much however if you really want to if you're a g in or you really wanna play my story mode that bad cannot find a refill copy which i'm sure a lot of copies 'em you it's a five hundred dollar game cheese you could buy so microsoft and intel man mike a certain amount of course very much adamantly telling people not to go ahead and do it but giving giving you the option nonetheless we like are often don't wait ten years and this is this is getting in the show why on all digital future and stuff like stadia how to cook thing at the stadium unless i'm inclined the about that exactly positives of stadia swell if you look at everything that's available and their service and if it is really available for nine ninety nine a month hey that's not bad you'll never own anything but you can continue to play the hottest games for ten bucks a month if you knock out a game or two a month lowered you're money obviously who has a tough and add gave you're not but there's a downside is you don't own anything so when you decided to go ahead and casts subscription that's what they're gonna do see a playstation network right now 'cause i know need to 'cause i didn't like fucking judgment so i have the choice and studies looking for judgment even without that subscription so when i when when it went from owning word to renting word for the year but yeah i hate that i'm not a fan i noted outside of state becomes think of an accident being applied the segway this way but it worked out in the end is that destiny to remember talking about the new expansion how the rebounding destiny and everything and how everything's gonna be cross play asterisk everything but stadia really sustain a once giving another reason maybe not the twelve other people come play with joe that's cool yeah so yeah most goes on their described as just the bandwidth issue that the two they actually i'm not i'm sure this isn't even hyperbolic eighty percent of americans because of the internet infrastructure in states certainly wouldn't be able to use existing history for k over this shit i have google fiber and i would be able to just be able to squeeze that out probably nip so there's that button and games a head honcho inaba recently talked about how this okay and now they're basically talking about how it's cool to see that knee 'em games will learn faster especially because both systems are confirmed from now backwards compatibility x box confirming that a little bit backwards compatible all the way back the oj x box still west playstation just confirming that at least be backwards ps four gonna be like no wait time when you play coder basically so he was basically saying that's all cool but he said i really don't see what i'm paraphrasing severely so please this is not quoting now the but in essence what he was saying is cool evidently faster black people this what the people deserve because low time suck especially in twenty nineteen but the rest of that bullshit microsoft eight k two hundred forty frames per second playstation eight k sixty sps shame happening come on let's not get hyped about shit until it's proven so the way he sees it he's gonna be he's excited for what's gonna be viable in what next insane but not really buy into the hype of what's being said because as we saw last jen ps four next box wonder capable arrived at ten eighty sixty sps barely fuck all does that on there he's right unless you're playing on the pro worthy a excellent access so anyway then a little bit little bit more so i got the right idea let's not blower load so early and appreciate what we know for sure can bring us oh here's a good one this is what i was excited talking about talking about this one was fresh but hey we'll talk about it so he ate an the ethic seven four nine representative to merely eating the dictate a so overseas a specially loot boxes been deemed illegal in several european countries and specially denmark uk is highly illegal they you know it's been removed himself up things you know in in overwatch there are no box is a season apex legends there's no they don't have we buses like they do here they have like a whole different system it's more of a crafting system in overseas apex legends fucking thing rolex stuff to craft as opposed to getting a chance to get the same fucking thing over and over again and then other games that you're cool it's just been completely remove right so you get legislation was basically like look you could still sell thief and all that shit let's take a look buck stuff that's all we ask for of course not having any of it so they're like fuck that not removing it then you gotta see you in court if you not remove this shit because getting or emoting ronin child gambling no no no no no it's not let's get arguments together will see you in court so yeah go ahead there were seen in court recently a kerry a one of a higher ups in ea of course defending loot boxes a is a funny clip that you watch the whole thing it'd be like the highlights of if you wanna laced she's not a one of the irishman on the couch i believe is irish a plea i'm sorry if i'm wrong he was basically like he gotta start it off the argument being like all right so you know loot boxes basically shall gamble yada yada yada excuse me sir we don't call him loot boxes guys okay whatever you wanna call it it's still a child gambling and she goes i hear me out so here's what carolina territory for state mrs we don't the called the move boxes we call them surprise mechanics and they're absolutely testicle i sure as hell not actually choking but now the words out from outside the pitch for defense boxers those little actually i mean they're going hand on it and they're basically now grasping at straws suffer lane just renaming it first they they may recall what did they call on recurrent user spending loot boxes they also recognize the rebranding it and then throwing the same spam out is what they're doing they're just changing the can but at the same whole half ass meet in the same but you're slapping and and he labeled throwing a backup of the public and that's basically what they're doing she goes on to basically her argument is well you know you guys are calling we box is unethical right yes that's what we're here for today and it's because you guys were saying it shall gambling that's what it is the dad supports a well i mean kids like tinder eggs right okay actions like indirect what's the difference is it a loop boxes of digital hinder egg i dunno canoe we're sorry i forgot you're american 'em kicker eggs for the rest of the world are little chocolate i that you could get inside is it used to be another school shooting more stuff but he could be a capsule and you open the you broke it open yet capital's all the kind of guy be different lines of licensed offer just generic toys whatever so basically what it so they argument is fox figures even by everywhere yeah so basically shoeshine equated to that yeah this is you're a but the what is the blizzard one's called acute but deadlier whatever area this stuff yeah she's basically comparing a kid who get the supplies surprised toy buys it because they they wanna get the surprise right even the toy in there may not be what they a you know were hoping the get getting a double pulling overwatch food but there's no timmy you as a very swiss cheese argument yeah i kind of you know where they're going for but everyone in the court i mean when she sent me original subprime mechanic rebranding irishman actually laughed like right by accident even it'd be overly overtly like dick heat reflexive even tells reflexive last like she's setting like the fucking place lady yeah she she she fumbling around in the bubble both around so much in her arguing that it was so clear that bobby kotik someone who had their foot so far upper asked if she does not get the mount of this hot water she's fucking gone yeah that that's the kind of you know it's a station she of course you need bullshit without raven coming out of her about her final defense isn't that far off 'cause when you put it in that context you kinda is gambling with those little toys you know using like the the cuban deadly 'cause you don't know what you're gonna did you know you get some some you don't like many guests in in in extrapolated sense it is but it's a weird one yeah that's i i get what you're saying but it's different when the odds are digital due to chance a i guess but it in short right once that kinda rag or keep a deadly figure get boxed in you buy it at hot topic of walmart target and you take it home hundred percent there's no way between you driving the target endear house that that got slumped in between but when the digital odds are they're making just pull lebron and be like drop that skin five percent chance get eighty percent chance they're gonna take it a step further and say like you monopolize you're you're you're odds to like back in the day will be cooler earn money together and bobby legend blue eyes box right now we've got three blue eyes out of it you know first tradition fucking blow should still have that 'em but you know you can't do that you can just drop what sixty five bucks on a bunch of loot boxes and get guaranteed that you were just saying yes there's at least some incentive right where you buy like max for example buys some of this figure things were heads on boxing i mean for those who don't know max black smoke a by all like like crates of whatever figures and then like opens a bunch of 'em right yeah those are like he did the dvd ones right those odds you will get a rare guaranteed at least one in the box you brought a crate you know you'll get at least one race you're gonna get a secret delude box chances there's so much more you know what i mean there's one overwatch event saying i used i used to it's optional person but as time goes on and i've heard very good arguments as to why it's a little more deeper than just optional is i realized i may not have a gambling problem per say but i realized i do have a bit of a media got a collector mall type problem where i will actually have like a mental stress in problem if i don't get all the even he's skins 'cause i mean them so i will i i said there wasn't event or i spend a hundred dollars on bucks just to get the de miskin end the fucked up thing is i got it in the last few hundred hundred dollars worth of luke boxes and i almost didn't get it jesus and then the more i hear jim sterling in all of them talked about people who have even more of a problem and the knee deeper than me people like me are kind of a victim and there are people who were even worse than me that have more mental thing have a gambling problem he he told about this really a good story that was a bad story about a good story of of of fans of him that wrote in and he he said he's a venture gonna do the full scoop on that into a full in hopefully do a full interview they wanna be revealed but basically he talks about how the when the times changed a couple of brothers a his brother his life would actually ruined by gambling as one of their ways to get out of it and they're a their therapy was they got into this is like early two thousand maybe mid two thousand there maybe even twenty ten a video game with the outlet and they got into a call of duty what what happened the call of duty over time you know you see what happened right and that got taken away from them then they went into a i forgot the next level is just say offered you know story purposes they got the fifa and that was fun fever oh it is the worst and we start but but yeah it's actually one of the worst that i see on that bad whether you like just i dunno it's like masters a yeah basically played such a gift unless you get certain boston certain players but it's really just a the game is really unbalanced unless you get into that stuff a over here that doug exactly so then that got taken away from them now you see the point the story is it as when i started to realize you know i was totally blind in my own issue but then when i heard stories of people like that were there issues even be online and i didn't even realize i had a problem when it came to that that's when i realized bucket are and morning is optional because they are predatory on those type of personalities and those type of people with problem in kids don't know better so exactly and then it goes down into that and how it conditions them and the more that we do do say that this is okay the more that we say it's just optional were kind of supporting and i hate to say it when i bought those tons of luke boxes and i'm not gonna lie may continue to do it especially when it gets team comes out it's a problem and it's predatory even the people like me and i would say that i have a higher resolved any person when it comes to resist the temptation like that normally mhm so you know there's a little bit there i thought was interesting so that being said i hope it really does bring to light and kind of accentuate for those who were kind of wondering is it really that bad for those of you listening i hope that really emphasize how bad it actually is even if you thought the dna trying to defend that wasn't so scummy i hope that that story that just told and then my own experience really makes you realize how scummy actually is yeah i could see american murder doing nothing to counteract that basically the only ones left of the kind of keeping it alive first period was bullshit exactly object in twenty twenty it's it's a supposedly gonna be the final weekend we talked about how it would even while they're coming out for that and how they're doing it but i believe it should be the last one that is probably let us know and let us know why yeah yes no more people enjoy their we even though you know that's probably that console because it had so many good games but there were so many problems with the council and it was so poorly marketed it died like wonderful one oh one just went under the radar senator elect the child of the intendo firmly it was and it's sad but you will see speaking of which to the speaker of dead in the water a the wheel randomly got an update this month louis july who has a we even yet on their action more people actively hallo we're using the we you know and that's wild v last update for the way you like september twenty eighteen is not sooner than that some shit like that and then just randomly dropped one it's all just ability shit but that's where did they even have anyone working on that one yeah and not importing hold the pokemon intend yeah yeah so they could have cut their ducks in a lot of course people are gonna go actually game freak but i know i know who makes a oh here you go john's is this news might be interesting in your wheelhouse halo reach is so fucking ready for this day i'll let you know you're halo reach piece of real quick to before i get i'll even tell out it is just go to you to type in are you ready for halo reach me and my best buddy watch that on asked one time right before we played halo reach and you'll understand why we love halo reach no it's fun it's a great game i mean we hated initially 'cause it skew the lower end it's still kind of scares or and but anyway i know it's a fantastic game of surveys momentous solves is one of river levels great game can't wait can't fucking my pc reach so a hillary h recently did the pc test a it was open to a thousand players as you get imagine especially when it comes the pc says three for three it was leaked 'em so more than a thousand got their hands on it however three for three of taking it very seriously folks the mike's already a three foot you're saying it very seriously and many people are gonna be banned because of this both they're looking into both who leaked and who copies are gonna be at risk of article i read i believe it was struck toy made a very good point where they said that is it really worth it to like get banned permanently and then now you're not gonna play just a few minutes of it is a very limited test so i'm really worth i think the majority would probably say no i mean yeah there's so many good teams out there like a blessing in judgment that m y everybody handel leakers maybe perma vandal leaguers maybe like semi band the people at played the week i get there just an amazing examples i think i know i should dump truck that exemplary bullshit we did it don't do it but you know people were gonna people yeah there's a m yeah i mean but it's really sweetly some wasn't worth it probably not the get band one of the good notes on that i like how they're pushing for a high reports any bugs so they fucking get their shit together i'm like they mcc which took what two years to finally everything's finally okay now christ jesus i remember playing matchmaking start it up in like less than thirty seconds and you're freaking out because we like i would do something to eat and i think he went to go pee and like yeah the manager's already starting with the fuck okay well yeah well you know what our in john let's take a break and tell people where can they find you on the internet mr john a even by evil dead guy on twitter and a newman shrimp soon become so all of that ending news on that talk about but that whenever it comes out and you could find me on my projects where you'll find me on twitter at most places on handle at gd rocker altogether and you can find me on my projects at slim agent entertainment dot com and of course you can watch all these episodes excuse me listen all the episodes past future present of disconnect the guy's a disconnect the cast dot com nick foles on you to give us their damon dot com i do all sorts of stuff on there on my babies around there including this podcast so check that out thanks ron there you go oh yeah there's already i've ever seen that shots at the rotterdam these powering through his cancer andy's he's looking well so well which just ahead a going back and then you games done quick twenty nineteen be monitored i like this article that talked about recently how games on quick is essentially the modern day tell us on so after those of you don't know what a telephone as fuck i know what a through the further you who don't know what that is back in the day till there'll be there'll be a tv program and i know people used to watch live tv and a you know they would have bands on their or or they do injuring certain marathons shows and you would call ended donate to a certain charity or whatever the cause was and that's how they would raise money in celebrity friends is that much about telephones involved in that the double existing wired phones fucking celebrity everyday rise again like look it's basically the modern one in this recent one for the summer games done quick twenty nineteen raised three million dollars for charity so let it quit on them for that you get on that a gauge of those games announced july you're gonna build a play inside very very cool game by the makers of limbo so in the vein of that definitely check that out as well is a game called big crowd showdown wherever fuck that it crunch aspirated water as much as one hundred x buckner sixty backwards compatible games a tougher this mother gonna be a castle mania stephanie the night fitting couvert fitting end meeting robinson's why the fuck would i want that gets pretty whatever a terrible movie there you go a playstation plus reinsure july gonna be pro soccer twenty nineteen at least there's not micro transactions gabric ones as well as a chase turbo whatever the fuck that is discount rocket league is that we are now on sale rides in charge turbo i dunno whatever the fuck whatever i anyways a as some some fucked up news happening this i made a lot more darn it is it's fucked up though a trump's twentyfive percent tariffs will be affecting games very badly it wouldn't make these four hundred dollar price tag of the playstation at the moment be a five hundred dollar price tag you can only imagine what scarlett nps ps five what their potential prices they're gonna be with what they're gonna offer can you imagine that with the twentyfive percent tariff that's assuming he's still there yeah that's assuming he's still there so a vote accordingly a microsoft sony nintendo rhody group letter to him i'm saying how that's gonna fuck up the industry at how why basically yeah but soon he can greet well i think i think someone's gonna feed it to him must be idea that microsoft sonian nintendo had but let me put it this way you ask you at sony on board with writing that letter here i know right sony's playing ball yeah so what does that tell you see they sony's a hyping up that ps four and ps five you're gonna have crossed council playing like that's cool ps four players completely ps five players when did you play ball with everyone else yeah exactly it's like okay ever do that in and then and then what like now it's funny they're just starting this weird anyway the way we made that that horse a million times phil spencer talking about the current state of x box six talks about how admittedly x box to great due to greatness jen however he's looking forward to nexgen as well as the remainder of this jen and being very positive about it he talked about the forty first party titles that were announced that e3 how big showtime you know is able to show us some stuff that scott people actually excited lots of people weren't even supporters of microsoft admitting that microsoft probably did have best in show as he three you're so there's that he also talked about how we're having a lot of a playstation micro even microsoft an intendo title on all slated for twenty twenty releases twelve of these fourteen announced titles a three four x box are going to be shipping within the next fiscal year so a good amount of coming out this you're as well next year so there is that nicer here filled stressor kind of you know being honest mason and then and then also safer their hope so we'll see they talked about we talked about last time on the podcast that they want it to a by eight japanese company tried to attack the market again because end in terms of japan ever since they really so they were x box x box is you weakest selling console by a country mile and just not good in japan instills besser hopes that they can turn around and they really do want the japanese it'd be on board with their costs as well so we'll see a shower this morning a did is there any other news 'cause i actually had months or shut down here twice both a negative light 'em about that's also what i wanna ask you wanna go to deepen their 'cause i'm sure people are about hearing about it when we talked about it earlier but then the jets their sense do you feel that despite the decisions that game free poke him on intendo made that the game should still be supported among yeah because it's okay to to paskhin be approached here if people boycott and don't get sword and shield like the core fan base is like now fuck you guys you're not gonna play ball that's what i'm gonna play both you nintendo can either do to paskhin arrest firm that you know it's like okay well will do better next time or they just like all right well fuck you were not gonna do anything pokemon game winner that while you know not not they're not against for a while but the sas right now they're basically a take it or leave it made a very firm stance where they're just like they're all gonna be in a deal with it yeah and then everyone buys in tenders continues the trend exactly right so now what you put out the powers that i was hoping that you would put out just because i mean that makes sense you're pretty fanatical fat as far as the people i know and do you think there's anything wrong with just going ahead and fucking bucket up and doing it and playing well put it this way of putting on crystal my favorite game for the longest time until they played it again what like a year ago two years ago and i realize you can't get murray been that memory is my favorite electric tight way of roses and that really fucking kill crystal forming 'cause i love crystals superfund super cool 'em and i'm like really like after trade it in i can't trade with you know so the killer forward so depending on what i i haven't looked into what bookmark 'cause i don't even know when i'm gonna be able to get i can't understand how this kills it from a lot of the fan base that everyone likes the same kind of put my hand there's i'm sure there's a fucking guy out there or girl whoever whatever you who who loves duran duran his favorite fucking pokemon they love that steel ant man and durant's not gonna be in sword and shield will fuck this game render they made the warriors i know earlier i always knew my duran kevin to go in the left him in a box so kevin durant's 'em so i i get were why there's a lot of backlash because that's very interesting here because from a more casual fans point of view i really did see it as what's the big deal yeah people are freaking what's the big deal that fateful there is a big deal yeah mentally you have your from what what would that thing the trend on twitter for awhile 'em 'em whatever the name of the town is in polk detective pika true like you would have you're persona of that with their favor pokemon high dragons by favor poke most door if he's not in the game no phone and play it why am i gonna blitz and he's not gonna be my team so i'm not gonna have that go to that's where i see now of course poke among the better the scene pokemon has always been extremely imbalance game any ways a but that's where i could see the complaints got only but from my point of view i could really see the complaints battering is those who played competitively like what if it's like one out each version interational fighting game comes out inhumane someone in a fighting game the next generation it always have that i get it now that that's where i get it from that perspective i mean that was i wasn't even speaking compromises just like if i can't go through this land or yeah like with my high dragging then what's the point like you don't deliver that through that right you gotta go with yeah yeah especially if that's the kind of game where some people even have their top three or four more in that game probably have owned seattle i'm hesitant 'cause i don't wanna switch it i said i wasn't gonna get a switch to my came out now is a slight yeah i might not even go ahead with that so we'll see what i need to look at the list in let me see if there's a list of old spellcheck later yeah but yeah so the the true poke him on the court fan base it's a huge deal yeah that's what i wanna know so there's that if you guys of course agree disagree disconnect the gas malla g mail dot com another topic as one what you gotta know how reaches a let's see dst dropped on the switch support i mean it's just a port is not like a master plays well looks good so does really well and then we get more of the dmc games on their cause should especially if he would be so good on their recently in time that we were out a they dropped a mario battle royale game a fan made a a classic oji gee super mario and the way it works is that you dropped into a classic mario map right and now you're running around is different hazards and stuff like that i mean trump there was a there was a hundred 'em mario's and you wanna be the last one standing so using their environment getting in the way they other mario's you can't kill each other directly sound like fortnight where you attack each other but you're trying to be the last person in the course to get to the end and like you're still using environment and then they kind of just you know maybe it wouldn't be the last mario standing ending to the course just gonna grappling oh cool and other battle royale but that's interesting production very cool like the first nintendo being one of the strictest when these they hit it with a c a d but it seems like the creator of the already has fading that nintendo gonna nintendo and what did they do they rebranded that so they took the original down you play on a browser to which is really cool thing completely free game geneva needed downloaded just played it online 'em they brought it down and they change it a couple of times but he basically released to the cmt royale they had legally the character's they had references if i've got copyright taken down they changed the map the music and everything is pretty funny temperature down he explained that yep that's not us got the name of the guy chefs out fucking stana king y'all a steam valve kind of suffering in and you know the kind of doing that weird thing where epic keeps keeps you know ethics wildly attacking this team is just like wind they're taking it man not even by her daughter's been the biggest savior of them by being like let's support steam steam film not making the headlines the right reasons 'em and it seems summer sale is back again as everyone knows that's one of the deadliest fails to a wallet every year once again some pretty good deals but they tried to spice it up and didn't kind of a weird convoluted way and they basically had where there were different teams yet team court in team something else and what you do is buy a reaching each of these requirements you got you you're team points and by going when you're points you of course would move you're team along the winner of the team had a players on the winter team had a random chance a random place would be selected to potentially get a free game from your wishlist which will be cooler more organizers of course like in mortal combat with everyone being clay 'em everyone's on team gordian again not whatever the fuck was that has really balanced with his team had the fix that and try to make it more even playing field so other go but what what's happening here's where the negative impact came not just with the game really stupid in an imbalance but here's where the problem is people were like well what if what if i'm the selected winner right how many of you out there john it i included so filtered asset as mr john how many of you out there on your wishlist on anything just have a bunch of dumb bullshit the user like a wish list oh that game which led yeah and you know what should i know that you're never gonna play you're never gonna fucking by an you're never gonna look at ever again you've forgotten when you're fucking wish they're angry amazon wishlist on an interesting and other to wish yeah so when people started doing now scared of the chance today might accidentally get some fuck all game that's on there for no reason start removing the wishlist what's the big deal someone might say for those who don't know how it works what's the big deal well the problem is this hurts indie developers because any uppers chances are showing up and appearing in the algorithm is based on who had interest in their games including on how many wishlist and they appear in so now they started dropping in a in that sense and steam as you eventually go out in in in kind of 'em speak up and break the way it works is like okay guys look this is how it works you get the top game so just move it to the top games up removing everything has six and a but it whatever you want as you're chance of winning just put as you're on the list that he should have said that from beginning exactly as this is bad design so the steam called on my phone all went down and cheer about fit comeback and stay strong halfway through just saying because the thing that'll never happen oh man we got shit as duke nukem forever right i know so weird amy's podcast and i'm gonna talk about cary joji focus on anyone know that anyone knowing that is shoji director of bond twentyfive the yet to be named james upcoming james bond film not gonna be coming on their end is a coming out in a production it's a little shaky and delayed a staff as we talked about how a purchase on a lot really focus on i see what the fucking made up name that focus on a has a kind of a the food you from oh has been a direct has been delayed showing up late the set had not really 'em searchers taking the set of the film seriously 'em so in a recent interview or exchange 'em to address these accusations which basically like i've totally not just playing red dead redemption to no one ever wants accused him of that anyone the staff overstated exactly what's causing these delays but he just kinda burst out and was just like yeah totally not read that to promise a bond to is going great and i just got a few things to catch up and work on productions gave a little slower than we intend to just say no i just wanna make it clear friend who may think that even no one said that it's not read that to just saying so you've you're ruining knocks on your door and asked if you're hungry shout out i'm not masturbating yes exactly wait wait 'em okay cool man you're playing read the two but catch do fucking job oh yeah yeah i know where that money he's the one who got knocked on himself that's so stupid like all right one more time appearing on talking about how astro chain i'm assuming they didn't say that it does well but i'm assuming failed obviously lots of doing it a is it a public trilogy so that's interesting here but again it hasn't come out yet but platinum so i'm after a little more on board with that of course they did talk about this is gonna be on nintendo title but they did mention of course as we talked about before they're gonna start self publishing so it'll be interesting to see a lot of you know the red tape a band that are taking while the come out because they don't have all the control scaled down getting cancelled a meeting in the driver seat entirely has always worked out even if they've been riding shotgun a lot 'em it's nice to see that they'll finally have full control because they do have some really cool i t's so we have that it goes from there so we're gonna wrap it up on our final topic that we wanted you guys talk about is we discussed a all digital future talked about m v hulu bucks controversy fleming about it we talked about that it's not gonna just recapping reiterate what we said but where do you guys think do you guys think that the box is being made a big deal a calling a child gambling is that hyperbole is not exaggerated or on is the world the legislation like uk in other countries that are banning it are they right to do that which side in there you really side on we do wanna i know that honestly if you could make the argument for the box is not being you know negative gopher we'd love to hear it you know we've got all sorts of arguments it just it helped fund the game is trim and people talk about china fuck up your argument you tell us you i mean i'm asking a question i wanna ask for a few of in a little box stories you hear this oh absolutely we would we would like to hear that you wanna talk about even a mini interview please tell us you know and then of course on the other side of things 'em wins simply boxing what the fuck was anything i said a digital future now do you have concerns what do you think about that what do you think about the stadium as more things get reveal so make sure you get the gas mail at g mail dot com once again that's disconnect the male edgy dot com member hit us up are gonna be there a young james if we're gonna be there all day july fifth oh shit time she has a second time i did is already right please don't go in a time machine is on june fifth is not gonna be ending their young man you you or me there so yeah you like the austin convention center in austin are tx come see us there all day hit us up say hi yup and then will be giving you covered from that and and also doing a little blog so make sure you check that out and they also don't know man thing that's it all right guys is on the next episode we will see you guys next week after are tx god we're gonna be tired as fuck what probably

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Chamath Palihapitiya: People in Silicon Valley are deeply unhappy

Recode Decode

1:07:42 hr | 2 years ago

Chamath Palihapitiya: People in Silicon Valley are deeply unhappy

"Today's show is brought to you by prudential a company that knows being tech savvy doesn't necessarily make you financially savvy. Whether you're running a business or your family's finances. Prudential can help you achieve financial wellness. Learn how at prudential dot com slash take it on. Hi, I'm Karen Swisher editor at large of Recode. You may know me as the founder of the venture capital firm antisocial capital. But in my spare time, I talked tech. And you're listening to Rico decode from the vox media podcast network. That can only mean I said anti-social that I'm here with someone who is my one of my favorite people, though, don't tell them Jamaa poly, Hoppy Tia, the CEO of social capital, he's on this show twice before to talk about the state of venture capital E, always says something crazy. The last time was August two thousand seventeen. So we've got a lot to catch on. There's a lot going on in Shammas life. We also with us have teddy sleeper. He is covers money and power politics for Recode tomatoes. Welcome back to Rico deco. What's up what's up? What do you mean? What's up? What's up, whatever tomatoes every time? I turn around. You're in the news, everything Lantis say who you are. You are longtime venture capitals you worked at Facebook alerts an AOL from those who don't know that moth. So you're well known figure of Silicon Valley don't give you that. Look. Okay. And and what's been going on? Well, a lot of things. Yeah. So last we met you had all these people you hired Mark, whatever Chelsea Clinton. I think it's easy. I mean, basically, I hired a bunch of people, then I transitioned and lead goes on people and some people left, and, but it's all more explainable in a sort of bigger idea. Okay. Because you last time you had a big idea you were going to change venture capital. When I wrote a story about it all these concepts around the this full service is that correct service. Yeah. What I mean? The general idea was that I thought that there was too much emotion in the business of hand the answer to that was just using data and information and most of the information to make better decisions sat inside of a company. So the simple idea there was if you instead of having NBA's with spreadsheets had data, scientists working at a venture capital firm. They would be able to ask the company for the real data that mattered. They would be able to. Build models. They will be able to make much more precise predictions. And then the investment decisions would be much more unbiased writing you wouldn't necessarily care as much about the gender. The look this all these other labels around a CEO. But instead you would be able to see how good they were because it manifests in the business. Ultimately, right. And that's your organization I set out to build. And had a relatively traditional venture California to start with. Right. Well, not really I mean, I had always been doing the job in that way. The team that I had hired from Facebook helped me do that. I had you know, a couple of people that I hired that were very traditional mostly because I wanted to patina of that world in case it mattered in case it mattered with fundraising without peas because you know, the first few funds, you know, I was probably two or three hundred million dollars of the money, but I still needed, you know, six or seven hundred million dollars of other people's money. So helpless helped with fundraising it helps with Bettina. Some some crazy guy shows up, you know, basketball team owner out partying all that. It doesn't paint a great picture if you're at a pension fund, and you know, this guy is asking for a one hundred million dollars. But you take a couple of straitlaced people who into MBA school and to get it got the job done, but they were good people, and they contributed to the organization don't get me wrong. But something much bigger happened. Which was at the end of last year. I think I went through. Through what I would call an identity crisis that I think I will predict that not only Silicon Valley will go through. But I predict most every human in the world will absolutely feel in the next five to ten years. And I think it goes along the following lines. And I'm a byproduct in many ways of having built a lot of the social media infrastructure that I think exacerbated some of these feelings, but you know, I had in the last nine years, basically, I was billionaire at thirty two. Okay. Okay. I owned a sports team of thirty three or thirty four. I, you know, was you know, deeming Li like people would say charismatic guy. Interesting guy. Funny guy, married three beautiful kids, leaving in the most expensive zip code in the United States, blah, blah, blah. And I was so confused about what it took to make me happy, and I was getting increasingly confused every day. And so the cycle was oh, maybe it's more deals. Maybe it's more money. Maybe it's more vacations. Maybe it's a fancier vacation. Maybe it's I fly on a better plane. Maybe it's a nicer it just kept escalating. But at the end of it, I was emptier an empty here. So the counter effect was I would either, you know, be spending time with people that weren't necessarily nourishing me. I was spending time in ways that amplified my anxiety, and my feelings that I was somehow missing out or inadequacy or insecurity, and instead what will be left over is not feeling avoid but avoid that was equal in proportion to how fake all those experiences were. And it was all around me. What set it off? Was there anything you just was growing nine cents of it was it was a growing nine cents. But I know what the what I know what the spark. Okay. Was that lit the match Mary. And that was my speech at Stanford in two thousand seven right talk about what you said. It was to some people me at my best. But in my interpretation was me at my worst. And I was a really good person about never really being authentic around my, insecurity, but not wearing it on my vest, or on my sleeves to such a degree that I would lose sight of the person I was in how I should behave. And if I look back on that and on many of the speeches that I've given or the talks that I've given I looked back because I like to see where I was in my point of evolution. Because my presumption is I should be evolving. And and in all of the things that I look at actually relatively proud except that one, and that's the one that has millions of us. And it's the one where I said, you know, social media's ripping apart the fabric of society, all of which is relatively true. The the forum on which I. Did it? I think was misplaced and the way I did it was in such dilettante way. And it was wrapped in all this other nonsense about, you know, the people that run the world, and their wealth, and that it was just so contorted and contrived, and what it was was just me almost barf ING out this last burst of unhappiness, and insecurity, and was my way of saying I had been told or had convinced myself that that is what we were all struggling for. And I have finally gotten behind the curtain to realize that that is a complete farce, and it's a joke. And now, I'm left completely confused and and almost alienated because I'm like where do I fit in? What do I fit into what am I trying to do? Let me one of your brands has been not sitting in. I mean, you that's one of the things you've been most proud of is that you are counter contrarian is one of your things, you say what you think you, you know, you you pull the cover of venture capital or these those roles superficial things. Those are easy to do. Because honestly, if you have even one one vertebrae of a backbone that's easy because most of those people are fake, and they live in a very superficial sad definition of what right depth is. Right. But at some point if you're lucky enough like, for example, my parents were deeply dysfunctional alcoholism, psychological issues, depression, abuse, all of that stuff. They didn't have time to unpack right job to job housekeeper, you know, photocopy store clerk unemployed vacuum salesman encyclopedia salesperson. That's what they did. Yeah. I my grandfather grandmother didn't have time to be unhappy. They didn't my parents did not have they had time to be dysfunctional or have and completely fucked up. But they didn't have time to be unhappy. They didn't have time to be introspective. They didn't have time to protect their kids. They didn't do any of that stuff. What? Parents if you're in a position can and must do. So my point is I'm gonna different situation. Which is I do have the time to have an identity crisis. There's no there's no, yeah. I have the ability to introspective actually ask myself these questions who am I? And this is where I got confused about what makes me happy. And how do I define my core? Happiness, and for a long time in my naive eighty my definitions for very superficial. They were the things that other people would also value. Whether it's job title, a promotion, you know, working at one company over another. You know, the money you make the trips you take the experiences you have because they're all relatable to other people. And in today's environment, they're very relatable in a post in a tweet in a picture. And so it amplifies the short-term feedback that tries to tell you that life is good. But at some point when it gets so perturbed, and perverted beach that did this you gave the speech. It was going to be well, my point was like. I had been exploring why after the accumulation of all of these things more companies invested in more funds raised more notoriety more television appearances more, this more that more everything why why question is like, why weren't you more happy? Why am I not more happy, in fact, unless happy, and in fact, I think that I've actually really bastardize some core relationships in my life where I've created hyper transactional relationships in many areas of my life, if I put, and I don't think that that's what I wanted. And so it was in almost that low. When I was at Stanford. I kind of just like let it all out. And it was from there that I started to make these systematic decisions in my life that I felt were lingering and I hadn't had the courage. I I would say, and I I would put most people in this category. Didn't have a toolbox right to even address it, and I and that has nothing to do with rich or poor. It has a lot to do with sort of like your condition when you're growing up like I have a funny thing that my friends, and I talk about which is, you know, like white people have a right to be crazy. You guys can live on a spectrum of normal and crazy Brown people black people Chinese people, you know, we're all like normal on the outside and fucking totally nuts on the inside. That's what we do present present we show up normal. Right. But we're really nuts. Right. You know? I always thought you were nuts. Jamaa? Thank you. So I'd never took it. Then went ahead to took it. It's like, okay. Used a tool kit and figure out what I wanna do to actually. You know, get emotionally healthier. You know, build a sense of self worth in an identity that was divorced from a lot of these outside signals. It is so much harder to do that. I thought and it's an ongoing process. And in that what I did was I profoundly may change is one of them was in the organization because I said, I'm raising all these funds I'm bringing in all of this money. I'm flying around the world to the Middle East to China to all these places not for my own validation and happiness, but to get the validation of other people who then don't make me happy, even when they do validate me. Yeah. And so, you know, I in Italian there's a beautiful word Busta, which is basically like you're wasting off. And so I woke up one day, and I was like 'basta enough. Yeah. And so you had let me just let me just stop you there. You had done the public offering of the transaction the spec because back. Yeah. Of that thing, and I remember being at dinner with you at. Yeah. But that fancy the grill, and you grill it was already damn this was. Before this revelation. Correct. This was that was one of the craziest dinners I've ever had you had ridiculously mid twenty seventeen. Well, yeah. So. They had a bottle of wine that was like a zillion dollars. They were like would you like them? And I'm like, no, it's like it's a thousand dollars a glass. No, no. Thank you. I can't I can't take that ethically speaking, but that was a crazy dinner. And I remember walking away thinking what the fuck is going on with your mouth because it was like it was a it was manic, actually, I would call it. It was a manic dinner of all these people and you're manic and the and this back just happened. And obviously you all were elated by it. But it was sort of fork fork euphoric, I think is a better word manic is what I thought. But I, but I think you're right. Like, I was definitely living out. And look I would not take those experiences away from my. Life. I think that those were really interesting, but they were interesting for me now is learning and I've given me more courage to be who I wanna be. So who did I wanna be I wanted to run an organization that made, you know, really thoughtful decisions in industries that I really cared about. Even when all the people around me didn't understand or didn't care. That required a different set of people a different organization and the beautiful thing is at this point. Now, it did not require anybody else's money. Right. Isn't isn't one of the challenges here though? I mean that part of liking venture capitalists. And maybe maybe you know, as the firmly comes effectively a family office. You guys are doing different things. But isn't one of the challenges that like, I don't like the term family office? 'cause I don't think that's what it is not all all personal capital. Well, no, I think it's a holding company holding company. It's a company that has the ability to buy and build anything at once is one of the challenges that the refunds out there who too dependent on you who are other other VC's social capital LP's. I mean want one of the one of the challenges when you already have an existing infrastructure like a firm, then when you want to change things, you know, it can be pretty dramatic. Right. I mean, how did you feel about that? Because when you say 'basta, I think about that a lot myself. I I know what you make we've taken a couple billion dollars in. And we've compound that money at between thirty and forty. Sent a year. Yeah. So to all the people that worked for me, and whose money I took your fucking welcome. You're talking welcome. Meaning what that you you gave them stuff. And that was enough. I was I hired them. Yeah. And LP's hired me to do a job. We did the job we were asked to do. But just like Michael Jordan had a decision to retire and go play baseball. I chose to retire and go play baseball. All right now. I may come back to basketball. Right. But this is my decision. I am not your slave. Right. I just wanna be clear. Yeah. My skin color two hundred years ago may have gotten confused, but I am not your slave. But how hard was that still come on? You know, that you know, when it was not that hard. You just for like it was not that hard. But this is because like when you realize that you're living somebody else's life. This it's not to take away from these accomplishments. They are meaningful. But if I don't value them, then let somebody else do it because they will value it, and they will be more honorable with those things. And if I couldn't do that then I didn't want to be in that role. So when you by the way, I have that. Right. This is what I what shocks me. No. I'm not saying you Joan, obviously, it's but it said it has repercussions that 'cause 'cause nobody does. Is that nobody walks away? Nobody also pays millions of dollars to their ex partners. And you know, gives them severances. I mean sure, but does that get reported are these people out on the street are these LP's licking the runes thinking? Oh my gosh. We've lost money. No. What are we talking about? You gave me fifty million. I gave you hundreds of millions back. You worked for me. I'm giving you millions of dollars in some cases, tens of millions. What is the issue jubilees go find something else to do? And we'll all be okay, come on Tomasz come on like the leaving. Is bothers people. Look you have the right to do it. But it does create repercussions of people are like what that depend on. You. Did you did I get that it's easy? But it's not as easy for everybody else. When when the central person does if you're. It's not easy emotionally. Right. It's not easy, psychologically. I acknowledge all of that. My point is it's a right. And we all have the right to do it. You could also say no employees should have the right to quit a company because you're leaving all your your fellow employees in the lurch. Yes, guess what? People do. So should I feel a different level of guilt than other people feel individually for making decisions to optimize for their life? What about a doctor who works in a really impoverished part of the United States. Who says you know, what I paid my dues a moving back to New York City. Is that is that guys decision worse or better than mine is the person that, you know, the engine the critical security engineer at Facebook that quit one day is that person's job when he does to quit worse or better than my decision. So you don't you don't feel as VC that you were somehow these folks are more dependent on you. Then, you know, a patient of Dr is or client of a lawyer, you have the right argument. Yeah. You're telling me like you all of a sudden like you should legislate who can it cannot quit their jobs it nonetheless, it created it city Arctic. What you're saying? Yes. I know it sounds really fucking stupid. All right now. It's still creates acrimony with the people left. That's new. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. How did you deal with that? I went to Italy spent the summer there had a fabulous fabulous time. Where'd you go everywhere every girlfriends Italian now that it's amazing. Yeah. So I I kind of like, I just detached decompressed. Uh-huh. Now, you also change your personal life that you just mentioned credibly. Like, you know, part of the process was just realizing that when I got married I was married to a wonderful woman, and she's an incredible person. But I had such a limited tool kit and what I mean by that is like I had. No, I I didn't even understand what it meant to be emotionally intimate with somebody like I had really good friends or my definition of good friends, but they were friends that I'd be partying with or gambling with or never sharing my emotions with really. And so I had no ability to build really any emotional intimacy and relationships whether their romantic or not are hard. If you really going to invest in them, and you know, in such a long time of knowing my ex wife is just like, you know, you have these meaningful changes. And what I what I would look back because it say the spark that lit that fuse was. Enron thirty two thirty three. It's like it was just so much capital that gives you so much optionality. And sometimes optionality is good. Choices are good. But too much choice can be very destabilizing. And then you know, you make decisions in your life, which you can't unwind. You know? What job do I do where do I work where do I not work, and all of these things at some point can create if you can't talk about it resentment initials, and you know, unfortunately, my wife, and I were not able to work through them. But she's an amazing mom. She's you know, has been an amazing partner to me. But it was a decision that I think we felt was the right to do now which also stabilizes people. I listen, I, you know, I got I get I get what you're talking about. What I found was in my divorce. None of my friends were upset that I'd gotten divorced. They were deeply offended that I hadn't told them. And that they didn't know that it was coming and in. It was how I realized how emotionally broken I wasn't incapable of really connecting with people. Like people always say, oh, you're you know, your candid, and then candor went transition to you're pretty authentic. But what I realized is those are still very superficial. And the ability to be really authentic and like emotionally present with somebody is super hard. It is. And I didn't know I didn't know how to do it not as like if you said, hey, be emotionally intimate out of like, what are you talking about? How to share how to listen how to be a good like listener to a friend, and how to for me, even just to share some really deeply intimate things that I've been dealing with or have dealt with with people that I hadn't it was. It's not what we did in my family growing up. It's like, you know, you push it down. Yeah. Put her in a little box. Put it far away berry show up go to work white man Brown. You don't do that just say, you know? All right. We're here. Talking with Timothy Polly. How petits the CEO of social capital we make a quick break down this intense session, which I'm loving. I love it. And we'll be back after this. This is advertiser content. When disaster strikes affected families and communities. Call on aid organizations for relief and to help them rebuild their lives. We have responded to more than three hundred fifteen disasters around the world. That's raj. 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We're also providing or giving purpose to these veterans who come back from service. Discover what you can build with Asher, get a new Azure free account at Azure dot com slash trial. As the U R, E dot com slash trial. We're here with Timothy. Polly hop petite. He's the CEO social capital, and we're talking we're going down one of the things thinking about when when you're talking like, this is that so so this this culture, the Silicon Valley tech culture talks about change and disruption a lot. But they don't like it that much. In fact, they don't they hate it. If I can thread what I was saying before and to sort of the business part. Yeah. I think there's a lot of profound. So you know, I am now much happier than I've ever been. But in my happiness, would I'll tell you is I actually have more moments of happiness and elation as well as sadness. I actually like feel the ups and downs and the totality of it. I'm actually more present in it. And as a result of matchy, just happier because I'm more grounded in my values. Okay. There's an old saying if you don't feel the pain you're not gonna feel anything else anything else. Yeah. I think that's a really good thing. I think a lot of people are very repressed and live in this halcyon days here of just like, it's great disruption disruption. Yeah. Yeah. But really what I think is the underlying part of it is which is why I think churn is. So high employees are so dissatisfied is that they are all so deeply unhappy in Silicon Valley people are much much unhappier too much. My rich, but they're not necessarily happy or or they perceived that they may be rich because of stock options, which we can talk about later, which may not be actually worth much of anything. But the point is that I think people in Silicon Valley at this point in time are the most unhappy they've ever been personally, they're the most probably detached, they're the least civilly engaged, they're the least emotionally intimate. It's all of these things that conflict to just making people really feel empty and that exists you're in spades. And so how it manifests into businesses is that at some point you need to have a real emotional spark to do something really meaningful at some point. And I think that a lot of people play the kabuki theatre the charade of a startup. But if you're just so preoccupied with your own happiness, there's a general malaise that you bring into the office. And I think as a result the things that one does at these office aren't as good, and so the companies themselves not being that meaningful. And I think we're in that way right now. How do we address it? I honestly I wonder why it happened. I before I think it happened. Because you have a lot of really really young people who grew up in front of phones who are completely disconnected from their own real tactile lives, and they don't know how to define happiness care your kids. Mike kids teddy and probably Ted. He's like brothers are super unhappy. Tell the truth. I mean, honestly, what did he tell the truth? Do I think people my generation unhappy? I think that ultimately there's yeah, I think there's an experience of growing up with is through device all the time. And I think you're right about that. Like my generation like I like we were like pretty gung ho kind of like found ways to be happy. When I'm talking about my in happiness before it was a level of core emotional unhappiness that that came after a long period of exploration. But at some point like, you just gotta be happy during the day with and I just think that I don't see that as much anymore. And I and I wonder why there's just so much sort of like ideological extremism. Why there's just so much? Vilification why? And I think at the root of it is deep dissatisfaction with oneself. And that's what comes out you see the world as you live it. And so if you live it as someone who's getting increasingly resentful, and bitter you lash out and are, increasingly resentful and bitter. If you see the world is trusting and happy, you kind of see the positive side of a road that is trusting in happy you can take the same healthcare stat. And one person will say my gosh, like, you know, we're all doomed and the other person says look at the advancements. We've had and thank God that this is happening. So company building today. I think needs people who are generally happy. Because I think it allows you especially start-ups, which don't overcompensate necessarily. Although now that's not true, which is working on these lofty goals, needs belief and belief is rooted not in anger or did they start happy? Do you think a lot of these companies started off with that concept? I think that the I like, I think if you look at the generations of the companies when you and I were first here in the two thousands. Why were here we were not here for? Silicon Valley profiles on HBO books and call us out. We were it was not it was so uncool to be here. And so you had to be happy to be here. And the how exciting it was very it was very exciting. The lower slung the building the better, right? The door Kieren dirtier and smellier the engineering pit the better. Yeah. And now, it's like these all this pristine gleam and shine, and it's all packaging to look like something that should be in a movie, but underneath I think to a lot of people is just a charade and a nightmare. So you didn't the wrong types of people were coming to Silicon Valley know, I think like the people are coming you need the people, but the people are fundamentally unhappy, and the part of the reason why people aren't happy these days is that they've been fed a Bill of goods that that they're turning out to not actually help them. Meaning like, you were prophylactically doing things in a way in which that thought that you thought would get you. Informed. More engaged. More. Understood you know, more sympathy, more empathy, and it's the opposite. And those things are really sacred things to be playing with and right now, you're not playing with them in a one on one. Like imagine. Like how those things went up and down in a relationship you had in high school and how devastating or exhilarating. It was. Okay. And you had two or three of those interactions, maybe maximum in your life. Now, you have fifty to one hundred of them a day. They're much more small scale, but they happen day over day day over day. Right. Just take a step back and just ask yourself. Honestly, do not think this stuff impacts your your psyche. And your definition of yourself your core. Happiness. Don't you think that that's happening? I will tell you that it happened to me. I tend to think if it happened to me it's going to happen to the rest of you. So what is in place that creates that one is money? Or is that not the problem? No. I don't think I don't I don't think money is an accelerated to find your true self. So if you ever been to be a jerk, you were going to be a jerk just faster, what's more stuff with more. I think the thing that's accelerating. All of this is. We haven't really done a good job yet of creating a new generation of heroes that show a set of values in choices that are worthwhile. I'll give you a different example, you know. When I was. Single. I was shocked at what sort of like what it means to date in two thousand nineteen. Not shock like, I'm some like puritanical guy. But I was shocked just how valueless at all was both the hookup culture, and even the dating culture because like nobody understood how to build a bloody relationship. Nobody nobody really knew how to like share and achieve and create a bond, and I was just like, this sucks. How did this happen because that's not what I remember dating to be like right as a simple example. And then I thought, but these are all good people. How do they end up just so detached and? Broke. And then just so I think that there's an entire suite of experiences a whole suite of them that are combining in unforeseen ways to just rewrite just the norms of society. And I think that we haven't done a good enough job in saying to ourselves that as that happens. The mental health of of me as an individual also matters. It's like as if for example, like let's just say whole foods inexistent, all it was was a candy store, and let's just say all safeway's and all AMP's, and you know, every single grocery store was replaced with only candy and we lived in a world where you could only. Eat candy some was healthier for you someone's not some at protein. So you could roughly get what you needed. It would be completely nonstick ties to say, well, all I can eat this candy from a candy store. They're better candies and Moore's candies. But I realized what it does to my body. And some also gonna get a, you know, a membership at the gym or I'm going to create a regimen of workout to sort of like help me deal with the implications of my food intake. Seems really like a de escalated conversation novice while there's all this information that I'm consuming that that you know, has positive and negative impacts of my mind still not clearly well understood some in a prophylactic -ly do something to help manage my mental health, you sound like a crazy person. Right. And that's that's the tragedy of what? Teddy your generation and carry your kids in my kids are going to feel head on. Right. All right. What about the business of here? What happens then? Because right now has gotten a lot of pushback on a lot of the things it's made as you now in new talked about, this is the Stanford speech speechwriting. I mean Facebook. The Stanford speech was just more about, you know, just talking about what im- what the impacts of some of those things were. So precisely what you're saying in a different way, you're saying the same thing. I mean, like, look I think that people be crazy to say that for example at Google hasn't advanced humanity by ten to one hundred x right? So have they done some things that are on the? Points sketch, your could they have done better in. Sure, would you want to be in a world without Google? I would not I don't think anybody really does or understands the implication that you feel their negative impact is over estimated. I think that the thing that has happened is that there has been a transition from achieving emission to optimizing business model maximizing business model, right? And it happens when growth slows to think about an accompanying how a company works accompanies just a complex set of interpersonal relationships, and you need to transition from you need to keep everybody boot abated at all times. And I the motivation is oh my gosh. Look at all these new things were building that people want people want us were popular will popular make more of the things. The things are amazing. These things are delicious delicious make the things. And then at some point people stop buying the things because they have the things and then the teams like the employees. Should he be sad now that nobody wants her things? No because we're going to charge more for those things. And now you're going to count these other things those things are called money. And then so it's always a game of hot potato around motivation and morale, and as it transcends and filters into a company. That's how you I focus on product market fit. Then you focus on growth, then you focus on revenue and in these transitions to revenue what has happened to all these companies is that they've done what they were supposed to do as a for profit public company go and maximize revenue go and maximize profits, right? The implications are not in my opinion for them to bear. The implications are for society to bear in for governments to bear. And then what? So it's just that. This is natural to full. This is a natural way. They were gonna it was going to happen is what you're saying. Yeah. Like what what a surprise this is normal. What does the? Is isn't that new news? You know? Well, it is a little bit because they said they weren't that. I know, you know, they, you know, there was a whole, and you believe them they believed them. I didn't. I never believe them. Okay. Basically, a document here is these were companies that are always set out to make money, and now they're making money, and that's to certain extent that that's not their fault. They're doing their job and their job right society. For example. You know, they didn't start out. You know, they're they're getting. For sure they were not they believe that they were doing the right thing. We believe we were doing the right thing. And I think we've realized that it's a much bigger thing than we thought. It was here's my point though, society has a responsibility, the society's responsibility is to do what I just said. Which is how do I optimize for my mental health? I'm just going to put it. Bluntly. The people that think they don't like I'll put it differently. Let me just tell you the scale of the mental health crisis in I'll just use the United States as an example, men K men men live somewhere between seven to ten years less than a woman. Right. Same zipcode same education. Same health Bevere. Okay. Now, you're asking my personal theory. How is that possible? I'll tell you. Women have much better path to mental health than men. Do women talk women learned that it's okay to be emotional at a very young age women. Learn about emotional intimacy their top that it's okay to have relationships where you share intimate details. You make it betrayed. You may not you'll get supported sometimes you cry. Sometimes you feel really low sometimes even depressed sometimes you'll feel amazing. It's all normal your normal. There's an enormous number of people exactly like you in the world. Guys. Who is cool. Yeah. School dunk basketball. Yeah. As washes football here that girl she saw it. Yeah. How you doing could not long? This is my last year. So so that's so now Nicey this duality, and it builds and so as a result, I think what happens are in my opinion men. Why do they live less because they have just taken in so much toxic garbage into their body? Also, spewed it out. Yeah. But they they they don't know how to deal with it. Okay. And so they compartmentalize the tuck it in and I think it destroys men bottoms up at a very cellular level. I honestly, I think so. And so that to me is the state of the mental health crisis in America. It's at least one hundred seventy five million people, and it's groping so we gotta just stigmatize it and make it, okay? For people to talk and people for be able to to be emotionally connected to other people, and and not value obvious things. And also, then not vilify the things that were obvious before. Meaning like, I look at all of this stuff around AO, see, and what's shocking to me is like why is it all of a sudden so bad to be unsuccessful or to be successful should never have been bad before. Okay. If you think about the progress that we've made civil rights medicine, politics, all the things that have happened were fueled in part by money that was created out of a capitalist system. Okay. We have a political philosophy in America that works, which is capitalism, plus democracy. There inexorably twined you can't have one without the other. And all of a sudden have a counterfactual and say, we would have been the same. Right. It's disingenuous. But the reason why people get so angry is because a they don't like what they are. Normally like what anybody else that they see? So I think step one would be to really fix who one is and try to make oneself a little bit happier around the phalanx though. I I think she's got a quality which has never been at a great. But you know, absolutely talking about tapping I think which she's tapping into an anger tapping into anger into I know AFC in a why I was her. I am her. I'm just the less angrier version than wrong era. One hundred percent wrong. You're missing her completely. No, I don't think. So I think you're all terrified of someone. Who's actually I'm not talking about something that's important, which is the enormous inequality of wells and opportunity in this. I'm not I'm not actually scared of her at all. I really don't. And I and I and I think she's like an impressive person. I think. Like in. You know, if I was able to do what she could do I would do it too. But I also I'm smart enough to know how I would do it. And I would do it exactly the way that she's doing it. Right. And I think a lot of it is tapping into a lot of latent anger. No. I think she's saying enough is what she's doing. You're doing exactly what you're doing. She's saying that's enough of that. That's enough of this me too. It's enough of this was a lot of women are saying for sure about behavior men until a gun valley. That's funny enough. You're at it. Did it ten year twenty years ago? I'm not trying to take away from it. I'm like, you know, when I think about like seventy percent taxes or like, the green new deal that was non binding thing the beginning of a conversation. That's what it is. I think you're not she's she's obviously more sophisticated than you at this point. Because she's she's starting a conversation that you know, she's gonna come to come to it will compromise about. That's what it always. You have to start saying I will not sit I will not sit in the back of the bus. I will not do this. I will not do that it has to start with those kind of things. I think we're saying the same thing then. Well, I guess from a more angry Poincare chill the fuck out. Guess what? I started in Ankara high started in a really angry place. Yes. And I'm not less angry. I bet you'll be a lot. They would strides that gay people had started with silence equals death. It started with ACTA saying it's wrong. Now, I guess is. But but your. Offended attacking someone. Oh, I think is talking about critical issues in our society. I am not attacking. I was investing in climate change in healthcare right since two thousand dealer that is true. That is true eleven. Yeah. I was putting in hundreds of millions of dollars of my own money. So I put my money where my mouth is. Yeah. Her agenda. I agree with right? But the tactics all I'm saying is I'm just looking at it. And I'm like, oh, I've been there before I was the angry person spouting off about climate change in two thousand and eleven I didn't do it as eloquently as she did. Right. I didn't you know, my version of that was maybe blathering on tech crunch her. And of that is not keep my nuts. He's also twenty nine. Yes. The point. So it's possible. There's a generational home. Saying is I'm just observing her toolkit is my toolkit. Right. All right. So let's where are you? Getting the next section what we're going to do about all this Jamaa, I like the happy tomatoes. But there there has to be some, you know, a lot of stuff that pushes Silicon Valley forward is disatisfaction anger, insecurity. Those kind of things do create that you're attention. Does create good things. I think I think angers offend tastic motivator for the the zero to one path. I think it's probably the best. I've never seen people who like happily like it would be nice to do this. This. I think it's more like, oh, I don't like that. Oh, this could be better. And maybe anger is not the right word. But like, you know, it's era tation irritation. Whatever like, I it. So those kinds of like negative motivators tend to work really well and in zero to one, but at some point your philosophy has transition because most people are motivated by your attention, and anger. They're motivated by positively and sort of like, you know, an added if sense of being able to do things right right now Silicon Valley if you take away the emotional wellbeing of the employee's which again, I think is in a very precarious date. Ask the big tech companies. How many of their folks take them up on the free mental health checks? I bet you'd be shocked that it's probably thirty forty fifty percent now. Right. All right. But if you take that off the table, then there's a structural business issue that we have here now too. And it's something that I wrote in my letter last year, which is there's an enormous tax that we've been quietly paying to the big tech startups without realizing it, and those are the costs to AWS Microsoft. Google and for hosting and web services and the tax Facebook and Google specifically for for acquiring customers, and it's roughly about forty cents of every dollar. Yep. Then if you layer in the headcount costs, which is really about fifty to sixty cents of every dollar. You're already in a place where you're real net. Margins are zero or negative so hard to become successful carry-on. It's it's hard to even grow. Right. And so it creates a really dangerous precarious startup culture, which is not one of innovation wins. But one where the person who can get trick for the most money will survive. And then a lot of good really good ideas won't get capitalized because they're too risky. Yeah. All right. We're in talking about that when we get back with Tata. That's really important issue with Timothy paulie, how petits the CEO of social capital and now a philosopher, which I'm enjoying. A bit. Well, we're going to talk about that. Today's show is brought to you by thought works, presenting go CD modern CI CD tool that streamlines complex software. Deployment thought works has been a leader in the CI CD space for over a decade and build the first publicly available CI server in two thousand and one then it pushed the boundaries of CI to create what would become continuous delivery and has been working for the last decade to make it a common practice thought. Works wrote the continuous delivery book and made it the best build and deployment pipelines in its CI CD tool. Go CD, though, CD provides control up and visibility into complex software. Deployments visualize your entire paths to production in a single view and trouble shoot a broken pipeline. By tracking every change in real time. Go CDs supports popular cloud environments, such as coober, Netease, Docker, AWS and more. Download and use go CD for free at DOE CD dot org. We're here with Jemaah. Polly Petillo having an intense discussion, which I'm super enjoying. I really I really I'm so glad we're gonna get to be girlfriends now finally ready to be girlfriend over emotionally ready. Yeah. We hug. Yeah. Stuff like that. You you've called this a Ponzi scheme to the whole. Yeah. Whole subaru. Subaru released this letter or what like three or four months ago. He's point was basically, I think there's an element of truth this for sure but talk about kind of where. Thanks for your fucking millennial backhanded compliment. If you actually market it's true. So the the the argument here is that this who's getting fleeced who are the people who are losing in his Ponzi scheme, employees, employees of startups who are fed a that is let me explain explain it. So it's easier. So let's just say so the three of us here in this room. Let's just assume that we are the ecosystem. Okay. And there's a company right there. So the company comes first to CARA and says CARA invest in me, she says sure she gives him a million dollars and takes ten percent of a company. And then she then says to him ball. I gave you a million dollars. I know you have to spend around five hundred thousand for engineers, please spend the other five hundred thousand on Google and Facebook ads grow as fast as you can. The CEO may say why? And what care I will say 'cause you have to grow it all costs or it's death. What she's really saying is because it improves the odds that somebody now invests after me, that's what she's really saying. Okay. A year passes now that same company comes to me and says mouth I've taken care as million and I'm growing super fast. I did exactly what she said. Will you give me five million, and I want to twenty five million dollar valuation? I say, okay. So now all of a sudden I invested five million. Now, he has another five million. Carol looks like a genius. She invest she's got two and a half extra turn in the year. Wow. That is amazing. She puts in a little bit more. I put in the most. And then I say to the CEO. Hey, this is all finding good. But. Growth or died, dude? Like, it's all about growth, you've got to grow. And he says, well, what does it mean on spending so much on Google, no spend more hire more engineers build? More features. Hire more salespeople spend more. And then again, he starts to spend fifty cents of every dollar on Amazon Microsoft, Google Facebook etcetera. And then he shows up on. And then now the greater fool shows up you teddy. Yes, I am the series investor here series, see investor and care calls you. And then I call you teddy. You have to take a look at this. It is going gangbusters. Remember when you guys remember when we we would always have picnics at the Harvard School of business, and you know, you help you know, zip up my fleet fest one day right before started to rain. Well, think of this as a pay back. Think of this. And I talked to I talked to you know, and I see remember remember when. Remember, remember, remember where we were strolling the Claude Stanford. School or business, and you know, carry you let me a pair Vespas drills. And I said thanksgiving. He might consider consider this baby baths over. Yeah. And so you go and invest, you know, twenty million dollars at one hundred million dollar valuation. Now, Caras investment has ten xed. My investment is four years talented LP's. Everything's great. Now. Cara goes to her LP's and says, I did amazing. I put it in a million bucks. And it's worth almost ten million dollars. I want to raise a ten million dollar fund now, and I'll do it again. I say to my LP's. Hey, I put in money, and I four exit can you I want to raise it three hundred million dollar fund. You eventually find somebody else. And then you're like, I'm gonna raise a billion dollar fund. So what is really happened one the company's not really anymore. Incrementally successful. Okay. All we've done is inflated, the cost of him running his business to Caras raise more money, which means she has to put more companies to work, which by definition means unless the quality of the company's increases she's gonna putting more money into crappier company. Yeah, I'm going to keep doing it. You're going to keep doing it. So this is all. All about passing the buck who gets rich in this scheme CARA me, and you get rich. Why because we don't put a lot of our own money in the game. We put these off the funds. I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, here's a great litmus test. Here entrepreneurs write this down when you go and raise money, ask your GP when you get multiple term sheets. How much of the fund is GP capital almost none. Almost none. And you're going to be shocked to one or two percent. Most funds. Yeah. Right. I was thirty percent thirty cents of every dollar is me. You should take the term sheet from the person that has the most skin in the game because they will be the most rational. Because now if they tell you to spend it all on Facebook and Google your money. It's my money. You know, I used to tell this to my team all the time. Hey, I get that you want to write a thirty million dollar check. But do you understand that if you say, yes, I'm gonna wire out ten million dollars tomorrow? So let me pay attention. It's amazing. How much more you pay attention when your own is on the game. Yeah. Yeah. So the feces win because you get paid a salary, and you know, eventually, the dirty little secret is if you raise enough funds care, and I raise enough funds we make more money in his failure. Because we'll have many more of his kind of companies, then if they're successful. And then in some crazy sadistic way VC's actually want you to fail and they want you to take a long time to fail because by that point. They've stocked up so many funds. Yeah, they've collected so much fees your outcome is a relevant. Yeah. Think of how gross and misaligned that doesn't matter about the company. So number one the company loses number two the the VC's win. Number three. The limited partners who then put in money in the future. Also lose. Y you know. The muscular dystrophy association shows up and says my God, I've heard you've made money for Harvard and Stanford and Yale and Princeton and MIT. Can you help us? We're just trying to help cure muscular dystrophy. But yeah, I'll take your fifty million bucks. But they're in like the seventh fund. I'm already tired of. Game up yet. So the really Ernest LP's that late in the game. They get screwed and then the employees get screwed because the employees are left getting these options valuations go crazy because now Terry, you know, get once teddy gives us entrepreneur fifty million dollars at entrepreneur goes to dropbox or somebody else's says, hey, leave dropbox leave square leave Airbnb, look how fast my equity is going up. But now what happens if if you're not realized that person gave up real money for fake money. And so now what is his or her choice? The next time is to be much more skeptical or to say, well, if I'm going to play this game, I'm going to be really promiscuous. I'll be here for a year. I'll be there for a year because they could all be lying or they may all not no better. And hopefully, this whole thing just doesn't catch up while I'm still in Silicon Valley one I can make enough money move to Austin, right? When does it catch up? And this is the Bill come to to moth. Yes. I think that we are going to have. A non like, I think the it's probably in the next three to five years, and it will not be from our industry, it will be in the debt markets. And this is the way it plays out. I think. There's a huge like if you thought the great financial crisis was a big deal right around mortgages. Oh my God. Wait, do you see the amount of debt companies have and you know, the complexity around all of that is is far beyond what we can all talk about. But when companies start defaulting on their debt, what it really means is those same LP's Harvard. Stanford Yale MIT the most good distribution asssociation. Ford Foundation knightfoundation all these people right will lose an enormous amount of money because in all of their asset allocation models the debt part of their portfolio is in much much bigger than venture competition monitor two percent. It's an afterthought. But if you start to suffer huge losses over there. Huge you're going to start to just redeem and you're going to want to be super liquid the pull money from venture. And then you'll pull money from everywhere. Right. I you'll start with hedge funds because they have easier redemption cycles, but it won't be enough. Because now, you know, Carver just a simple example, they still have to pay teachers by buildings pay tuition, whatever or the knightfoundation they have to pay their programs, and then they're going to look around and say, okay, we'll sell this other portfolio. And so when it hits venture it's gonna hit it that way. And that's where I think people will say, you know, a very dispassionate financial buyer. We'll say these acids are worthless. Why did you why daddy? Why did you? Why did you think this is one hundred million dollar company right valuations really summer between? Karen, schmaltz, original value, right company. Doesn't make any money. It loses money. So at that point when them when Karen says, it's raise her next phone or you raise your next on her arm raising the next fun. Suddenly the L P doesn't as much cash to put in. Yeah. So that's why why do you think are raises funds every two years? Now, why do you think threes is money every two years, which means that your mouth and CARA have to put the money out faster? Which is why you wake up every day, and you see fifty deals a day. And you think where's all this money coming from fifty? This is the Ponzi scheme that we are. How'd you get to the good ideas? One of the ways I think about it with when you're talking about Amazon Google Facebook is three semitrailers running down a highway that nobody can get around. It's a tat you use the term tax. I think of it as nobody could get around. How do you get the good ideas where are them? How do you create good? I know you mentioned some Airbnb. Uber others. Good ideas. Right. Interesting ideas, right now, I think that you'll be wall compensated in looking at the parts of American industry that have largely been nonprofit and making them for profit. So to me, that's frontally, and I know healthcare you'll save for profit, but basically behaves as a really horrible, pathetic nonprofit. Education. I think those two areas will have enormous amounts of outcomes like big big big multi hundred billion dollar outcomes. Climate change will be enormous. And then making us less dependent on the earth in general space, all that stuff will be enormous. So those are like four areas that are pretty obvious the way that I look at things now as I look at the I look at the product of two two concepts one is is this a hard thing and tried to ask myself like what is super hard about this at it takes a while. Because some things are non obvious because like when somebody presents you something like, oh, I built this thing. And here's how it behaves. You're like, well, that's pretty straightforward. But you gotta find the hard thing. And then what I like is this idea of like how much courage does it take to start it? And right now, I'm infatuated with this idea that you on really low courage to start something because then all of us take a shot on it because we're like. What's the big deal? Right. But it has to have a path to get much higher where you have to have more and more courage as it gets bigger. So for example, like I just saw free solo. Yeah. I've heard it's great. It's good. So that's an enormous outcome because it's the product of a hard thing. And this initial courage threshold heart thing H T is just it's huge. I'm gonna free solo capitan. Okay. That's like, it's an enormous thing. It's undefeatable. Right. But the initial courage is diminished. It's take the first step, right? You're on the ground. Take the second step. Now, you're still on the ground. It's a tenth step. You're still functionally on the ground by the time. You're four hundred feet in the air while you're has to go way up right? Every next step is incrementally harder. But the product of all that if you're successful is an enormous feet of mankind of humankind. And I think that every time I look at a company now, I I look and only those four categories. Because I'm deeply infatuated than if he has nonprofit right now anything it's the four categories. I'm just a health. I mean, if I want to be specific healthcare education space climate change and the fourth one the fifth on from us AI like meaning like hardcore like chips and chip design and AI those five areas, but I asked the same question is relatively non courageous to start. But will they get deeply courageous to keep going? And if it were to happen is this an unbelievably hard thing that would just shock people. Both of those questions are relatively easy to answer, actually. But so if you look at like, Airbnb, you can paint it in this example, what is the hard thing make every room in every building. That's not a hotel bookable and behavioral like a hotel. That's a hard thing. You could value it as high or low, but it doesn't matter. It's a hard thing. Yeah. What's the initial Kirsch threshold it super-low, I scraped a bunch of listings on Craigslist. And I stuck them on my website. But now look where they are. It's much yet to be much more courageous. Oh my God. We may need to get into airlines. Oh my God. We may need to be devote vacations. Oh my gosh. It's now you have to have real courage. Take uber. What's the hard thing? I'm going to eliminate all car ownership in the world. It should be a rentable usable resource like water. Okay. That's super heart initial courage treshold super-low. It's I'm digging a couple of these guys black cars. But now look at the courage threshold. You have to have, hey, how do you deal with passenger safety? Hey, how do you deal with autonomous vehicles? Hey, how do you? New York City. It's complexity I've thought the complexity and you have to have more and more courage. So I like to take those two ideas and apply to those five markets and see if there's still things that are you just investing alone. Now. Right. You're just we just have a few more minutes. But you're just doing it by yourself. Do you partners partnership? I've like twenty five thirty people to help me really that work for you just for you. Yeah. They're my partners. They helping you know, they they lead certain areas. Like, you know, I have a great partner that I work with the leads a lot of stuff in space. He's wonderful have another partner that leads a lot of stuff in sort of marketing and then before. Well, it was more of acknowledging what it was before. It was a benevolent dictatorship. In disguise as a democracy was never thought worst. The worst. As you know and perform at their I now, it's just more of a thing where you know, what I would love to do is do what sort of Buffett and Munger of done like be evolving. My mind be increasingly detached dispassionate be more emotionally aware of myself. Make fewer much bigger decisions of impact talked about. And then not answer to anybody except my life partners partner and my children. That's it and everybody else can go very happy person more. If I have to tell you just had dinner, he seemed the office so happy. He's incredible happy. That's exactly I gotta say he's happy. I mean, honestly, seven lamb chops during our sitting in Omaha. We I remember this dinner or this lunch. We had and he didn't eat because he was just talking. Okay. He had a Caesar salad, and it's just funny, and like we were talking and he made some comment about like crest or something like he's like, oh, I take twenty milligram. With thirty milligrams of Crestar. And he's like it's or maybe it was something Olympic tour. I don't know. And he's like, it's the most incredible that's ever been. And then as soon as he says, it's like kind of like the timing was impeccable. This enormous Sunday lands on his table just start existing. He. He is incredible. If you like ice cream, he's happy. He is he's high would love to be happy. He's a happy, man. You know? Yeah. I'm reasonably happy right here. All right. And then so so are are you bullish on Silicon Valley or and then I'll at teddy us left vision. But really? No, not really I think happens for everyone to go undergo each oth-. And that's what it will be called. It'll be like a verb hall. Timothy, oh, I I think that I think that the way that people express his style as people in their dissatisfaction and disillusionment with this place leave and so you'll see better and more companies get built outside left recently in a lot of people. You're right. They leave their unhappy care all the money in the rule. It doesn't make you happier. How I know that you're so poorly. You have his money as what I always gets you to the point of realizing how unhappy you are faster. What would you tell you know, an entrepreneur out there who right now is like Bush. No, no, no. I think you correctly point out. There are a lot of people were kind of quietly unhappy like how do they deal with their own happiness, given the I think there's a lot of pressure here. Right. I mean, everyone feels pressure if your CEO for VC, what's your, what's what's your your your sends these like if your health is degrading and you've been eating chocolate everyday step one stop eating chocolate every day step to get some exercise. What is the version of that for being mentally healthy? I think is compartmentalize these things in a way so that you put them in context. And like there's almost be a disclaimer like on cigarettes like the shake your about to consume is not true. It may make you feel like somebody else is kicking ass while you're life sucks ass. It's not true. Now, go, you know, what I'm saying? Like, you just really need to to really have good boundaries for yourself. That's step one. And then step two is for me. What I did was I read a book that profoundly changed my life. I I grew up in an alcohol at family and the book is called the adult children. Of alcoholics safer by Joan white. It's it was fucking transformation on my life because it basically disarmed all of my dysfunction and said trough you're like everybody else. And it made me feel so understood in seen for the first time in my life. So there are either books or therapy or all this stuff that I think is just so profoundly helpful to people to disarm the things that right now, they feel or exacerbated when they're online and that then will result in a much emotionally healthier and well-balanced person capable of being an incredibly productive, founder some extent. He's our founders are on a happy and think they're alone on happy. Right. But the reality is correlated. There are a lot of these folks who are a lot of people here on happy. They just don't really no one talks about or they express it. Then express express it. Right. So or did they don't have access to it access to express it? So they don't feel it. I think they express it. They express it by job hopping. They express it by having a bunch of fleeting relationships. They express it by you know, feeling relatively disconnected. They express it by being angry. They express it. This just said, we're not doing a good job of actually looking at these things and actually putting them all together into a mosaic. Can I ask you a question? What do people are you? What do people think you of you? What are they what are your real friends say like what the hell term author what they were shocked at how much I went through personally. And I think that they've been really open to who. I am now. What's funny? He's like I haven't lost the charismatic crazy guy part. Now that's clear, but it's it's much more compartmentalized. And it's more whole it's healthier. Like, you have to understand Carolina that my life back. Then was nuts. Like, it was it was not sustainable like fucking Vegas away. And it was not. So remember that I came back. I said tomato sauce cure. You went to bed. I'm telling you follow me around for the four hour kits. I went to bed it that lifestyle. I'll be honest. I couldn't get get wait that lifestyle that lifestyle was me, self medicating happiness. Yeah. Yeah. That's. I was doing the I called it forced fun. And so there were all there's all these people in the periphery that always wanted to be around that life. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. It can be really kind of intoxicating to one talked about it yesterday. But it's it's not it's it just leaves the person in it. I think or left me completely broken in Annapolis Silicon Valley changed because a lot of things you wanna create beautiful things. I think so I'm working on a lot of things right now. One thing that I love is this idea of like to I think like disarming the concept of mental health. Yeah. Disarming it and then giving people a better simple toolkit. And I think there are simple things that could work for a lot of people to make them feel like they're not alone in that. They're seeing and their understood. That's it those three goals, and I've been working on on something that maybe I can come back and tell you when I'm reading right. Well, it's not about self reflection. Right. Or you're talking about sometimes the other day, I was selling. Silicon Valley people on Mike it's a miracle. Any of you can see in the mirror because you don't have any self reflection. Best thing that ever happened to me through all of this is my kids to me. And they said you are so much nicer. And if you had talked to my friends, they would have said, you know, he can be crazy from time to time. But he really shows up as a dad, and so I always thought that I was really doing a good job. Not being my dad to my dad. Right. But even when my kids saw the delta in the last eighteen months, I was like, okay. I'm I'm doing the hard work. Nobody else gives a fuck they care, and that's all that's all that matters to mouth. I'd like this neutral Ma I like neutral moth, I like old tomato. Mazdas funny. We'll merge the two. The best show up. All right. All you Silicon Valley people that you're going to undergo moth, just so, you know, she was great talk. You. I hope he's come back. Again. I want to hear this things you're working on all the time. You're very creative and interesting person. Thank you all for listening. You can also find more episodes of Rico decode on apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcasts. Wherever you listen to podcasts, and please tell a friend about the show. Thanks also to teddy schlieffer here. If you're in the Washington DC area, I'm going to do a live podcast on April. Second in the studio theatre focus on a and self driving cars to learn more, go to events dot Recode dot net slash AI. You can follow me on Twitter at care Swisher. I am always happy tomorrow. I have to say amazing. I'm very happy. I'm happy percents. But I do whatever the fuck I want to work and people find you online. Are you still go watch them off and Timothy g Mary he's still tweeting up your very clever Twitter and teddy Teddy's for that's right now that you're done with this. And he also stories on Recode and other places now that you're done with this go check out our other podcasts, Recode media and pivot. You can buy those shows wherever you found this one thanks again for listening to this fantastic to Arctic episode of Rico decode and thanks to our editor Joel Robbie and our producer. Eric johnson. We'll be back here on Wednesday. Tune in then. Hey, Rico, decode listeners, I'm excited to share that I'll be back at south by southwest this year, if you're going to be there or live in the area, you're invited to attend the deep end by vox media. That's our experiential space in the Belmont in Austin, Texas, which is just a ten minute walk from the Austin convention center. Friday, March eighth through Sunday March tenth will be hosting a series of live podcasts musical spotlights eater approved food and much more. I'll be there along with Peter Kafka, and the host of the verge cast and boxes the weeds. I'll be interviewing Arlan Hamilton. And Wendy Davis and Peter will be interviewing Mark Cuban. Plus there may be a couple of surprise guests. If you want to attend you'll have to register advance because space is limited please RSVP at vox media events dot com slash s s w once again, that's box media, Vince dot com slash s s w the mission is free. But space is limited. So don't wait. I hope to see you there.

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#1787 Case Study: Making a cofounder relationship work

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1:12:02 hr | 2 years ago

#1787 Case Study: Making a cofounder relationship work

"Hey there freedom fighters my name is andrew warner i'm the founder of mixer g where i interview entrepreneurs about how they built their businesses a few weeks ago i interviewed this a developer alex backgrounds and development yeah he was right the thing that intrigued me about is this guy joel hooks created a site called egghead which offered a developer video training and he did it really well and i got to let me see 'em looking at my own website a quarter million dollars a month and revenue which is substantial an i think one of the things that he told me doing the interview was he learned how to do it by by joining this program joining this course in the courses now called stacking hiking the bricks and i've heard several developers take that program take that approach heart and actually build businesses and either developers people who are kind of like very analytical not willing to offer some bs thing if somebody does online with a lot of creativity in some kind of launch formula but just want something that works and it stops into people and they've got some substantive businesses in wonder if people were listening to that live interview that i did with joe was alex element and you said hey i'm a co owner of this thing called something on this thing and i thought you're not this woman in what you're kind of hanging on are you an even the good guy so i took him seriously and it turns out that he is the kind of secret not so secret co owner of the business amy jolla someone who's such a loud mouth i know she might be in she's probably gonna be insulted by everything i say i stopped following on twitter because i feel like she the little thing from hers too harsh for me i remember being in a conference the first time that i met her this guy gets on stage and he said this is what a lot of startups need to do business because this is what everyone needs start to buy into the ps of raising money i i'm i'm sure miss remembering parts of that but she doesn't sound like it so i could see why alex wouldn't get much attention he's partnered with damian amy in eighty also is a very substantive person i feel a little scared of her but i always appreciate what she's doing actually works we talked to people who who she's worked with an m alex bowman apparently is cofounder in the business end he is it's a running stacking the bricks day help people make the shift from service businesses into products that they sell over and over so joel is a developer he was selling it's time for money and now he's got this product all right we're gonna find out how they're doing and how they built up this business and if you're trying to teach anything i think there's a lot to learn from this we could do this all thanks to phenomenal sponsors the first will help you hire your own developer who is trading time for money hits called top towel and the second will help you get your website hosted right it's called host gator but i thought about those later alex let's let's get into the interview let's do it i'm excited to be here andrew what's what's your revenue so we're on track to do three quarters of a million dollars this year okay end profit well you know what on track is a little bit harder predict what did you do last year so we did a i could give you the exact number give me one second what do you think the idea books we only because books a national pulling up a spreadsheet i keep track of this somewhere else he do it in the spreadsheet i know i'm super old school like that so while you're doing that i'll say one of the things i'm dying for somebody decree it like up to the minute income statements i don't know if i'm missing something by asking for that maybe there's something better than that but i just want it about a minute dang i know we did we did four hundred and eighty thousand dollars a an change last year and twin how much of that you get to keep you personally to keep i'm guessing a hundred and twentyfive thousand so many split is a forty percent sixty percent 'em an the vast majority of that is profit this is a very very high margin business are has gone to a lot of ads we don't ashley we are experimenting with ads for the very first time as of today really it's all content marketing for you guys zero on zero on advertising it's been honored percent content marketing up to this point and systems 'em and yeah i mean art we've got not even a thousand dollars a month in in software a that we spent does it bother you that amy's getting all be attention it doesn't bother me a i in fact my other business so i a starter and i'm a co founder of a co working spaces well and in that business i'm very much the the front person of and other affectively silent partner and that is well so that she in a lotta ways kind of nice to have a business where i don't have to be on or the face but there are some interesting and sometimes confusing experiences for some of our students in her customers were though right in a you know all of her emails go out with amy's name on it so when they reply and it's not any a they're like wait a second you know who who's out kind of like the reaction you had who's this alex guy gm it's coming from a legit source but you know they're not sure my my the support guy and it's not really until they get into one of our programs where they see me in lessons 'em where they see me in in actual exercise and things like that they realize oh i'm actually a part of this still the only thing on is indie hall this is the co working space in philly right that's right i've been wondering could co working spaces still compete in a world where we work sucking all the oxygen oh yeah absolutely if any we've grown better and faster since we came on the market they're spending all the money on advertising to educate the market the court things even an option and they are all these other option i almost wanna do an interview with you just on that because i'm fascinated by co working spaces but then if someone thinking of co working they just think let's just go to we work right until they experienced experience kinda sucks and then they're like well we i wonder if there's other options out there so they said let's say you get refugees from we were yeah we we work is probably like are are third or fourth source of new membership these days we all have the advantage of of how of knowing what we focus on we kind of know who we are and what whereabout we know who are membership is and we don't really go after we don't directly go after the same membership we don't do teams we don't see companies we really focus on individual the freelancer who i think and feel kind lost in the mix in a in a giant you know forty thousand two hundred fifty thousand square foot we were oh look at this you had the highest price option you have is three hundred dollars a month that's right that's right meanwhile i i'm gonna regis i think come now up to seventeen hundred a month fair but i get four walls and a lot of space and all that 'em yeah see so basically you're offering deck space right i actually that's not true a the main the other thing it's not obvious from her website is that a seventy percent of are members a almost never used a desk 'em there it's more like a club with a clubhouse kinda models even online community a repeat of the people join any holes 'cause they wanna be around other people not because they needed to work at the desk is sort of an added benefit and a lot of cases in some cases it's a gateway drug but people are coming to a place like any hall really because they've gone out on their own they're doing the wrong thing or increasingly there remote remote for the first time sometimes remote for the second time when they learned some lessons the first time and they're like being by myself is not good a you're not selling space you're selling online community essentially so i end in person community events gathering really come in you could you could get a desk anywhere you have a desk you dining room table in your house you could work at a difference between that and any other just you could work out if i if somebody is paying but they're not getting the desk what did they what did they getting they're getting city events there at what they're getting access to each other think about all the reasons you join any other sort of before they get access each other and a slacker so we've got slack leaving email discussion and again having a physical place you come into even if you're not working out a desk just know that there's a you know think about a you know like i almost got country club or you joined the chamber of commerce all of these examples of professional communities have existed throughout history there just wasn't one kind of spoke to are generation come in if they want to maybe one as little as one day a month they could come in and get desk space but the rest of the time they still are involved in the whole online community enemy in person a bad that they wanna come in and sit on a day that they didn't pay for they daily update it that what it is that's right a interesting i'm kind of fascinated by that because i liked the idea of a of a i'm fascinated by real estate with a brand you know yeah all right let's get into you end stacking the bricks you started out as an entrepreneur i feel like from the beginning 'em you told our producer that you found rocks in front of her dad's office you remember what you did with others sold them to his patients i did that is true look at station said yeah my dad with the chiropractor and he had a home office that he had opened a couple of days a week a as sort of like off times and things like that ends a yeah we had like a a a hedge row and i go when i pull rocks out of that and 'em stack them up on of this like barrel box thing that was next to the door and i would tell people if they needed a doorstop her i had one for them and they would they would buy it wow you felt no guilt known nothing you felt excitement about it i did an end i don't i mean i'm sure some of them may have been buying rocks out of you know some sort of charm or guilt there somewhere in between from this you know seven or eight year olds selling rocks but the reality is is i also went to like my my mom was really in crafting i remember going to craft shows and seeing people with literally painted rocks and they were stein numbers doorstop her so like what do i don't think i was taking advantage any of anybody i had a rocket you could hold the door open door then he told the exchange good show for money you know i missed the simplicity of entrepreneurship at that stage like just finding an idea and selling it and not having having hit a certain number of dollars before it makes sense you know yeah the beauty of here's my idea i'm gonna go sell it in every dollar is meaningful how did you 'em so actually before e you and amy had stacking the bricks amy was doing something online what was she doing so amy has been also selling things online for a very long time we've talked about on her own podcast as a kid she would she figured out things like you know selling photography equipment on ebay or she was doing like ikea lamp arbitrage selling ikea lamps markup on debate you couldn't just by ikea lance delivery at the time right there and a lot of people didn't have and ikea near them and one of the things they amy figured out early on is like things like the photo and the description really matter you just like put the the late the name on it and you're people are searching for gonna find it but you wanna sort of entice them with with what it is and and why why they're gonna love it so she's done things like that from a very young age but the online business that she had been doing her and her husband had had software consultancy 'em their backgrounds and design and development like myself anes when we got together they had just started a their product business software as a service called freckle time tracking platform before they had freckle where they mushy teaching a she was blood gang i dunno if she'd say she was teaching although one of the examples that we used often is part of how amy came to a mini version of internet frank fame or notoriety within the rails community she would actually designer who is learning rails so that she could build stuff an there were concept in rails like active rickard in how you interact with the database and things like that that's the way they were being presented it didn't make sense to her however on her own and then she's like oh wait maybe there's other people who didn't make sense to you all explain it the way it made sense to me and she started doing cheat sheets and it was the cheese like spread like wildfire envy early nascent rails example of it a witch hunt example but she she that she was offering that went viral so there was the one that i i we actually emails about to this day like over a decade later is about the actor rickard an like database joins and how the how the a k reid information and right information to and from a database which is obviously critical when you're building an app but again documentation just wasn't wasn't what it is today back then in a lot of people who were creating developers celebrate assumed everybody understood these kind of complex khan and her money came from where so at that point she was working as a consultant she was being hired it's time for money her saw really okay yeah yeah yeah by the way i'm going through all your stuff whenever people mentioned something i go in china check it out and as i go to the website especially on stacking the bricks icy amy's name all over like copyright twenty ten to twenty nineteen amy holy if you own the business wise the copyright in her name that's a good question the company at the very bottom slash seven l d that's her company isn't it yes it is a and we started this business as sort of a side project between are businesses and if i'm being totally honest at some point in the next year at you gonna have to spend enough to its own business were barely wrong it isn't as an inferior you guys both donate you really get money out of the business but she has to do the taxes on art architecture late set up as a profit share that's right but got it for this company this so she's only been on linked in profile you're lincoln profile i think maybe one of the reasons why andrea my assistant wasn't able to find her linked in is you know it's funny i think in there yeah interesting but you you swear you own it i swear i call right there verify verifying you're gonna get screwed here because like something's gonna happen in she's gonna say no you don't on this business my name is all over eight were just so many legal from a legal standpoint dany definitely on the business i say one of the the of course themes of our relationship i'd say to this day has been trust i think a really important note of that is like amy and i were friends before we started working together so there's a lot i like friends we actually met in line for starbucks and they austin convention center at south by south west okay hand a had been out and about talking to people had blown out my voice and i was waiting in line for a party and a standing with her and tom conrad the seat former seats your pen dora just talking about you know the internet of two thousand and seven as we walked away from that conversation we just dropped information and stayed in touch 'em we i think we similar sort of world views of as internet creators we both had a consulting business at the time and we liked making things and putting them on the internet 'em am we just became in stayed friends one of the things that she did what she had this online conference it looks like from your conversation without producer you're you said it it was a three hour conference call a she charged a hundred dollars for she was teaching people had a launch software as a service she and her husband had done it the right okay and then i remember talking to her at the time i loved her ideas but i also saw that i'm like me i could do some being around people all the time give me more conversations with limited at the end of the day i love it i don't feel like she gets that kind of juice i don't think she wants to be traveling as much as i for example and traveling and i know she's had some issues that have kept from from doing it it seems like she was looking for someone else to to partner up with who could do more work so it's not all on her shoulders right well i mean so she had a business partner and her husband as well so the two of them have that have and have grown that software business freckle to be its own standalone successful business they have a very small team that runs that as well and a couple of other products they spun up sense i don't know i can't speak framing and this one i don't she would definitely looking for somebody like shoulder the burden i think you're point though about where she gets her jews 'em i think something that amy and a lot of our students have in common is that you know like some version of inch reversion right so a lot of folks get stuck when they're starting a business or they're building something they wanna get out there even networking with everything is kind of stacked in the favor of an extrovert i can get out there and talk people like a network all day long hustle hustle hustle on top of the yeah you mentioned you had some health issues that a at the time oranges a big of a piece of equation but have definitely compounded that that factor over the time of every every minute she spends she asked me really smart in an intentional about how fencer energy 'em i'd say i am more on v extrovert side of things a that i all i get my energy from congress stations connecting with people but where we kinda bonded was sort of two fold one is that we had started a business is drew first using whatever assets we had or building the most important thing in are mind which is some connection to an audience that we could actually serve so start any hall by signing at least start any hall by building a community at took over year did you that before we even started looking for places and amy's software business was not let me come up with an idea and then figure out who it is for its oh i have a small suffer consultancy contracting independent ask i have a bunch of other be i know a bunch of other people doing that that problem exists maybe we figure out a closer look at why people struggle with the time trackers they already have and make something better so that sort of systematic look at who's there who already connected you and what problems do they have i think is oh gee world view that we've shared start at that's one of the things that makes me it makes me just love your program and respected so much it's and understanding of what do we know what their problem right and then let's start addressing the problem so the two of you got together in vienna why well so amy's husband thomas's from vienna machine i remember i remember unlike aol instant messenger she's like hey i'm seeing this guy is thomas folks 'em thomas is kind of a hot shot in the java script worlds up a four old school rails programmer she created script calculus so he was i actually had a little bit of like star struck i was like oh you're you're dating this guy who's like i've used this javascript primary that's awesome i'm dating a she ended up moving to vienna to leave with him and ended up getting married in and living there for a while so i had gone over a couple of times a year we as she organized conference in vienna a to try and bring together the bootstrap business creative community there 'em end during one of those visits we started having conversations about while of are friends were popping from start up job just start up job the corporate job just start off dry miserable miserable 'em i think they were looking for something i think they everyone's looking a little bit different i think a common theme among are friends was some element of control all you know you come in with the promise of you know creativity an opportunity but then the startups gotta grow or the corporations gotta keep doing whatever the corporations doing 'em and somebody else gets to decide what of your work matters creator and someone has the ability to take that away from you it's it's really aggravating sometimes disheartening and sometimes downright depressing so we saw lots of friends hopping hopping hopping and then occasionally we hear somebody say say you know i'm i'm going out to the bay area and i'm gonna raise some money and i'm gonna start a start up of my own and i would look at each other and be like well now you've got two problems a do you actually wanna create a a a rocket ship company do you wanna have you twentyfifty a hundred or more employees do you wanna end up getting bought out and then just work like ending up in the exact same situation you're trying to escape right now like why is there no white people not considering all of the options between these three sort of cornerstones of start up job corporate job and going out raising venture capital and it sort of in this space between those that we realized we were seeing something that other people aren't maybe we should talk about that and so that is be the core idea for this business recognizing that there's a problem people developer specifically is where you guys were going after were moving from job to job not finding any filming constantly moving around the only alternative did they saw were starting their own company with a lot of venture funding which was not a solution to the problem if they were going for and you said there's another way third pat which is bootstrap company actually serves people's problems and you couldn't grow in a way that you're proud of and that's what you're gonna do you launch this course which we're gonna talk about in a moment it actually lived there for a long time and it didn't work and we're gonna talk about why didn't work and what you figure it out it made it work the first i'll tell you about my first sponsor it's a company called hostgator for anyone who likes alex where like whatever your idea if anyone like sound like an yeah you're hearing which is start out by by building in audience by writing ends and bringing people together towards your worldview and then creating a product you want a good platform to host your content an i highly recommend not my sponsor which is hostgator but that's what makes it so simple to host it now running about a third of the internet internet sites right on cue and that's when i hear it's it's one of the biggest if not the biggest super simple just works and you could hosted on hostgator inexpensively end keep growing in frankly if you don't like hostgator you could just move it pick up you're content and go somewhere else but i found it hostgator just done a phenomenal job but i didn't set of moving with just grow with hostgator the more traffic i got my i the more this is for a bite academy i got excited about it let's go to hostgator will bet aside went with the cheapest plan i think one of the cheapest plant an enemy we were hit with traffic i said maybe we we've outgrown hostgator and i called him up and they said no we've got all other plans we just don't feature them because most people don't grow as much as you as i thought well what can you move me too and they gave me a great deal on a plan that can handle in men's amounts of traffic which is what we get so if you're out there and you wanna start content or any other side bring over the host gator dot com slash mixer g if you throw that flash may thirtieth you'll get the best price they have available end you'll be helping a lengthy the helping me by showing them that my ads work hostgator dot com slash mixer g the first version of the of course alex is what so the first version is what you actually mentioning earlier which was wasn't a course at all we had that group of friends that were maybe interest in starting fast company of their own at this point you know thirty seven signals was kind of the the pinnacle of internet business for a lot of folks in our audience people who had bootstrapped this wildly successful fast and then you know one of their another friend amy roy had started freckle and cycle wasn't quite big enough to fully replace their you know high value consulting but they've done really well out of the gate and people started asking questions so amy said i'm gonna do a conference call where men are basically work through an outline of you know what we did what i learned what i do differently and see three hours and it's a hundred bucks an hour nine people sign up for that and go through listen to what she had learned what she had done and after he ends say you know she's asking for you know what did you learn what were you take away is now like this was some of the most impactful lessons that i've been able to get real lessons about how somebody doesn't have outside funding somebody who's not super internet famous somebody who like it has some assets in his action leveraging them like we want more how do how do we get more of this and it was around there that she came to me and said you know maybe we should turn think about turning this into some kind of program recourse do you wanna work on this with me any early days one of the things he did was right out on posted notes was it yeah clinton trailer board basically on on the dining room wall with post it notes absolutely what what were you trying to trying to record so we were trying to collect an organizing synthesize water all over the road blocks either imagined or real that people run into from i have a job that i think i wanna leave to launch watch day and it's amazing mix of like one of the things they think they need one of the things that they actually need water the the roadblocks they run into what the mental hangups they run into a one of the mistakes they make and it just sort of this big collection of problems mistakes and challenges and we started kind of rearranging it into clusters of things were related unrealized there's it's not a perfect linear path i think teaching 'perfect linear path anyone who says you know just follow these few simple steps the start a business you should be very very skeptical of we don't teach three simple steps and start a business but we teach fundamentals that in a lotta ways all everything we teach today at close to a decade later maps back to those core problems things like well no one knows who i am or i don't know what i should make or even within that i dunno i should make goes into different directions it's i don't have any ideas to i have lots of ideas i have no idea where people would buy a bunch of different variations in between 'em you know i'm a problem is talking about you know people really struggled to describe what their thing is and i think that's a human saying that's not having developers have it bad but i think were all really bad at describing this thing they were trying to communicate and that sort of real world trillo board of sorts became the initial itenerary for a a program where each week we gonna basically turned that problem into a lesson in a challenge and you wonder how do a thing and you try and you go do it it's what's called the year of hustle that's right on the things that i admired about the way you it was presented presented was who is just like on a like a blog post it didn't feel like a long form sales letter it just felt like a simple blog post within within offered by you know what i mean all of our product start out that way why did you laugh when i said that what would what would they touching on that i didn't even realize i think a lot of people really over engineer what they need you know i you know people talk about landing pages and sales pages and marketing pages and all these things and the reality is if they don't think about what's on it and what's on it and who you wrote it for disney only thing that matters 'em you know i mean you as a more even more recent case study on that i launched a like retreat for fellow co working operators back in the fall i didn't even have website did a google doc like it was as rough as possible and i think there's an element i guess it depends on the audience that you're trying to communicate with but i think being honest about the fact that like this is new were trying something this is not polishing up something to be bigger or fancier presented something other than quite literally what it is as always kind of been a are own aren't approach we don't you know again when you've got limited where they were both running this as affectively a side business a side project business initially and frankly to this day ends amy how these health issues we have to really strategic about war spending time in the polish can come later tonight actually felt that maybe it was her way of saying screw you to the whole marketing world and maybe i'm reading too much into it but if felt like a more authentically of presenting at end it almost embarrassed all these other people who had copyrighted landing pages that were that were professionally done just felt more like were were too smart for that were gonna create i don't you know i'll be honest with you i think it's more we just don't pay a whole lot of attention to what other people do unless those people are customers i don't care what they think and do and that's i mean i've been looking around for new ideas so they only the only marketing thing that i see marketing suffered i finished site is brennan guns a tool now donate method of you guys you it's just so maybe it's just that you don't like marketing no i think marketings awesome in marketing tools and systems is really where i spent a lot of my time in the last couple of years but they're like they're the cherry on top they're not the whole cake and people aren't buying for the marketing tool there by the what is the matter is that i think is a great question i think the cake is having somebody find you have you be able to describe who they are and what their problem is as well or better than they can how how could you do that so the key to everything we've done has been immersing ourselves in whoever it is that were were trying to create this thing for maybe that obviously we've not tried it's not a lot of people like well what audiences kinda go after right so it's brainstorm a bunch of things i wanna i wanna create things for you know a for real estate agents i wanna create things for a you know air bnb hoster whatever it is and we're like well who were the people that we already know worthy audiences and the communities they were already a part of and how do we take the time to sort of get to know who they are and so how do you do that so you don't discovery calls what dangled recalled show the first version of what we taught a company called sales safari really boils down to go to the forums where you and you're co workers and you're peers hang out and dumb and what we didn't realize is rhythm and take notes and people say okay that makes sense and then people would come back and say where you're nuts and they say i didn't really take any let's say well what did you see and i'm like i don't really see anything i said well what did you reid i started reading the discussion i say what we take away so that people were talking and i was like okay we say instruction histories and take notes we need to be a little more specific about this clearly so the next version after that was well what specific things can you be rooting four and really boiling down how people express problems how people express pain and that's really the heart of it is if you start looking at every single conversation on the internet from the perspective of why is this conversation happening in the first place why did somebody go any internet and ask the question why did they ask a room full of strangers and put themselves on the line to potentially look like an idiot or newbie why did they go online germ full strangers and ask for help as a really strong indicator we think of a problem when you start looking for patterns in the thing people bring up on their own and you start extracting the patterns and you check the language the back and start to inform well i'm not gonna stay the way i think about it in my state the they think about it the things that you're talking about they went on the page and the things we hear all the time were basically like did you did you read my mind as not your mind specifically but people just like you yeah i read their mind cause they said it out loud on the internet and so you gave me a list of questions as they were leading to go and try the answer pullout examples of how people are expressing problems right so we won't really giving people questions because again when you give when you use questions like interview questions you're you're expecting the answer people are gonna give is honest and complete not trying to lie or anything like that but sometimes they don't know why the problem is a problem so it's more about looking for when when you're audiences asking questions looking for when they're complaining looking for when they're talking about things that they love and the things that they hate when they're talking about recommending the tools used and using all of those as an individual conversation is in a data point where you're looking for his collection the data points of oh this comes up as a pattern anes everyone in that audience seems to ignore it because they're like a new you should know that by now matt the the really the us albert obvious but you many other people and obvious opportunity is if people are complaining about a problem are talking about a problem or challenge or asking questions about something they don't understand over and over any answers they're getting are insufficient then there's an opportunity to be the one who provides eight more sufficient more compassionate more understanding and complete answer and that's really at the heart of everything remember the example i was giving with any and her chichi doing a cheat sheet create an audience who is doing a cheat cheat is no one else could teach her understand the concept the way she needed understand it and she got lucky in that case that there were other people at the same problem and then she said well wait a second i don't have to wait for me to have a problem to take the time to understand other people's problems they're they're showing them into the internet let me go capture those and figure out what i could make for them i'm now i'm doing it as you're saying that a i went to product hunt doubt dot com slash ask where people were interested in products can ask questions bastions like how do i applaud panorama into instagram and what you're saying is you want me to be aware of the questions people ask and look for ones that don't have many answers in my right so that's one angle the not other actors isn't necessarily a prerequisite they're looking forward the way other people answer them to other people answer them as completely as you think you could could you know a lot of times and this is especially true in technical audiences people give a a very people give short answer is the the the value is getting right to the point they're not you take the time to explain take the time to teach i see something that people have answered quickly and just kind of moved on from but they didn't explain what am i what then doing like that so in the case of a you know content marketing or that you know creating written material audio video material or if you're a software developer you can create things other than content you could create a plug in you could create eight eighty a template a kit with the format doesn't really matter the question is is what could you create using the skills you already have helped make that problem go away and offer that to the people who were showing up over and over and over saying this is the problem this is the problem joining kevin people ask that so for example if i see just one question here it's what's the best android launcher strict tablets i understand it somebody who has a tablet that not and i i o s right at device they wanna launches it looks right 'em if you're just being asked one thing that it is that worth paying attention to it could be i wouldn't invest a ton of time into it a i think repeat questions or where you're gonna get the most bang for your buck okay you people ask the same question on the other thing and it's interesting that you went the product hunt although although it's a site that's familiar to a lot of folks that are listening to show on one of the other components that we haven't really talked about his who you focus on and that is more more a professional audience whether those businesses or people who work in some sort of professional capacity so people were talking about their work problems the tools if they used the skills that they need her they used a man that include that includes not just the technology but also things like management in communication a anes and friend personal professional growth and things like that so m v who you choose to research does really matter a and one of the things that we did did early on in the courses we said you know pick whoever you want and then go do this this research on them then we realized the people would pick audiences who tended to be in a hobbyist strict consumers and please just people in places that the questions they were asking were scattered vague all over the place there's no real clear value they could provide vs you deploying this process to professional audience if you could save somebody an hour or held up somebody twenty minutes and twenty minutes billable me created a whole lot of value for that person if you do that repeatedly in scale ugly you may have the beginning of a business in the beginning your you're process was content writing get people on your list best more content and then offer this the course that you created twice a year right that's right and would be on the checklist any other type of content that worked especially well so the blog posts were really at the heart of and a lot of what we were doing a van and i should i say we amy was very much the face of the business then with a lot of talking about what she was doing in her business a show is here's what we've done in freckle here are a examples of how we solve a particular problem or here are real numbers you know again were talking about an audience of people who hadn't really ever done the math on how they would replace a salary with product sales the the the product named the course name ashley the business famous stacking the bricks 'em sort of a platform the courses ashley called thirty by five hundred which is a master class and whatnot to name your product but the but that equation came from those conversations with those fears where we said you know you're trying to replace the hunter and eighty thousand dollars a year bay area salary 'cause i wasn't meaningful bears salary ten years ago anes a you know how how many sales do you need in order to replace that and people looked at us like we had ten heads we said well if you're selling a product you know let's say you're you're selling the sassy you wanna create 'em let's say you're you're entry level plan is thirty bucks a month you realize you only need five hundred customers paying thirty dollars a month hit that honored honored and eighty grand new year gross to be fair but for the sake of demonstrating the numbers that just sharing that math was kind of showing people but they had a blind spot that they hadn't even really taken the big goal and broken it down into the smaller component parts realize oh wow five hundred people on the entire internet maybe i can do this and then be willing to pursue the past you told our producer aaa the first versions of this twice a year course didn't really work because people weren't implement in that's where am i like these guys care about that they didn't they didn't work because we were in closing enough sales that they weren't implementing had you know the day before we gonna tell you know did they were implementing and then what you why you think they were in implementing i'll do a quick plug my second sponsor just come you know top cal i to do what do you know that topped out how do you know them so i mean while my co working spaces through you know there's lots of mostly freelancers so they're not always hiring other folks i've got lots of friends at run co working spaces and lots of friends that are running bigger teams and things like that and top till has come up a bunch of times is a as it go to spot for finding really a great freelancers yeah that's what it's all about finding developers developers anywhere in the world tour the best of the best when i'm talking about the cheapest developers were talking about google level facebook let these days maybe not faced a feel like people are leaving facebook's off at apple level developers who just happened to work in places is that aren't here in san francisco bay area if you're out there and you're looking hire somebody on the best use of it is if you've got a new project you're team can handle it you just wanna bring somebody on who's done it before they get you started these other guys go far go the top towel dot com slash mixer g you'll get eighty hours of top towel developer credit when you patriot first eighty hours in addition to a no risk trout period at the top the top of your head alison talent t o p j l dot com slash mixer g in of course metronews emi acsi rg why i always thought that it would be interesting if somebody created a single place to go and find all be like it's all in all of the co working spaces united somehow like i really loved it when i was going through australia with my kids if the if the local hotel couldn't take my stuff or if i couldn't find high speed internet and whatever era bnb i had the only option that i could go into a rage just put my stuff there and go to meetings or going to regis upload what i need high speed internet and then continue and become a member region so i could get regis anywhere when i suggested that i saw you smile like some kind of united thing yeah what do you think of that so a i think there's a lot of interest in it 'em there's since the early days of co working been eight will call it an informal agreement a of the co working vesa so if you're a member of any participating space in the oregon visa program you get up to three free days at any other participating space and their spaces all over the world the database for that 'em became kind of scattered in chaotic because it would later wicky nobody's like he's anymore running a wicky nowadays it's run on co working dot org slash visa so it's an actual age now they're sort of rebuilding all of that and they built a thing in that actually keeps track of it's got like a dead man switching it'd be you don't verify that you're still participating a guy who you from the database base cannot but i still feel like this is not getting enough love because i can't do a search just says i'm in like i'm i'm gonna go to a singapore in a few days yeah love to be able to just punch in singapore and see what comes up yeah it's it's very much a work in progress they really just started revamping this earlier in the day earlier in the year i should say you know the the interesting thing about co working in twenty nineteen and sort of backed year you earlier comparison between you know how do we compete in a world of we work if think of the word co working like the word restaurants more describes like a really wide band of of an ecosystem then of specific kind of business and so to join all the co working spaces together with any sort of uniformity is really an interesting challenge 'cause even within any given city i think the majority of the best co working spaces are are independent and unique in their own way and so yeah which which one's gonna fit your vibe andrew and i know once you reach us you kind of know what you're gonna get whereas you come all you'd have to figure out like what see indy hall like space in another city i try and my team tries if we have relationships with spaces and other cities or weaken usually do you know quick bit of research to say you're the places that i think are worth checking out will send people along but it is eight deceptively difficult challenge to really have that kind of network a the the established in whether you're looking at it would be a real estate play like you would be a landlord an renting space out but you said you have a lease i don't mean to get a year that's right yeah now it's buying and least and renting it out well so for me the real estate is like is a hammer it's the least interesting part of the entire everything we do here it's a means to an end we went through a relocation about three years ago that was driven by a landlord they got greedy and in that process we looked at buying at a subsequent option and we quite literally the best option than we had before they option we ended up in was eight hybrid 'em joint venture with a real estate partner who would help us develop the space and then we buy them out over a five year period there were some really exciting and interesting component to that is well in terms of being able to get members involved almost a co op ownership of the physical building a book quite frankly we ran out of time so were were in a lease which for me is peace of mind and let me focus and the thing that i actually care about which is are people and how they connect with each other 'em and be having a a landlord takes care of all the physical things that i don't have to think about my team doesn't have to think about means we focus on the problems we set up the salvages which is independent people feeling disconnected and only from each other real estate just a distraction from that press but it's not a long term asset that you get to keep building up but i mean the co working space in your own their own space in its fleet where it's a rare part of this is like it's such a new industry that a lot of places and people just don't have the resources to buy to buy led by property that they're not short people actually want i think a lot of people may classic business mistakes working except it's very expensive to buy and fit out of building and then find out that the thing you created nobody wants so i think if people deployed the thirty five hundred approach the co working they might and frankly we would have been in a better position earlier defy 'em the next time we move where and i frankly i'm glad i don't have to anytime soon on the next time we move if we move will be into something that that we are 'em i don't regret not buying mostly because i mean yes there is asset component but i didn't get in it took to create that particular value 'em it's just it's not it's not my vibe it's not my interest isn't that long term all right i'm i wanna do like a whole thing just on on co working space it's okay if there's somebody out there wants to do an interview with me on their coworkers you know it'd be interesting to do it with alex dumped it african guy knows everyone everytime i have a question online it seems like somebody said alex would know he runs the co working space in oakland i dunno after reach out i'm gonna go i'm gonna go you might be the only person who doesn't i'm gonna go over his place in district court in interviewing person what someone let's come back to this why do you think people were in implementing so i think there's two parts to it one is we were asking people to let go of a lot of habits in a lot of expectations around business building a early on and do that a lot of early lessons were more more hypothetical honestly they were more brain lessons then work lessons if that makes sense they were more here's await a think then here's awaited do anna first versions of course of course the balance we got out of whack they were great people loved the lessons the feedback we got with amazing a we were saying this on interviews and testimonials alone would have been saying this is a hit except we really care about other people taking these lessons the heart and creating the thing that they they showed up to create and they weren't and so we realized that the mindset wasn't important part of it but not knowing what to do next was the thing really that was missing 'em and having concrete examples an end of what to do and how to put all the pieces together was was really at the heart of what was missing 'em we went through a couple of different versions of the course and ashley any came back from a web stock as a developer design conference in in new zealand and she had taken of course a workshop with kathy sierra about learning design a and were big fans of kathy and her most recent book bad ass is like at the top of the list of recommendations because they all all of her stuff kind of comes back to the same thing which is getting in the shooting of the learner and thinking about the learners experience of being bad at something that is very new to them and how unlikely they are the continued doing something that they're bad at and the sort of feedback loop of tiny wins that needed to be designed any experience of how those tiny wins fit together to get somebody to quite literally trust themselves to continue working was with the thing that was missing so she came back from from the west stock worshipped saying we need a redesign of course i i think i know what's missing we we need to focus more on the exercises like we already agreed agreed but this pacing problem of how do you get somebody who's back who who and here's here's where i think this is unique especially unique to a designer developer audience and not just a designer developer audience but most folks are like pretty top of their game in terms of things professionally like they're really good at what they do and they've been good at what they do for a really long time and other coming to are course to learn a totally new way of thinking about business and marketing product development for the first time in a long time meeting their entire career they're bad at something okay hand we were really bad embracing that in you know watching people who were very talented freak out because they're bad at something should have been an early sign knocked it there you know week or not not prepared for business but that it is a there's a lot that we internalize why is that if i'm if i'm not instantly good at something i'm bad at it nf i'm bad at it i must be bad something's wrong with me and so we needed to adjust the curriculum and and just the way we taught to be more practice oriented oriented and to be designed to get somebody able to actually try it and see oh i'm not great at it but i'm a little bit better than i thought i'd be an i bet if i did it again i get a little bit better yet and and continue that cycle until hey i'm actually i'm actually pretty darn good at this and apply that to all of the core components of what we were teaching so much of the focus on on ideas here's here's what a my producer shed 'em stopped emphasizing the conceptual ideas behind the course and you focus more on exercises it's raining example of an exercise that represents the concept better teachers it better than teaching the concept itself absolutely i mean a a great example i was just talking about a little bit before where we were teaching these you know go reid forums and pull out the answers and even the live example that we had is like you could interpret that a million different ways so what we ended up doing was first recording we'd pick some simple a simple threads and discussions we record amy or myself doing that process and sort of narrating how we did it so it's more like a screen cast exactly here's me out a forum i'm going through the forum response now look this guy just kinda chatting i don't care about that i don't care about that but i do care about this i'm writing it into google docs and why and sort of all the little nuance and it was shared all over over the demos and exercise is were quick you don't wanna get lost in the so ten minutes ten minutes less okay and then you add them do the work how would you make sure you tell them producer we made them do the work and that's what they're seeing from the previous versions of course was a was ripped out content and there's nobody watching and you do it whether he denies the report back if you want it feedback so we took the course from eight twice a year almost like a semester long model a trunk it down to this two day boot camp where it was really just essentials you needed to get started not all of the things we thought you might need no ever and a you together as a course or as as a class as a co worker about thirty in a chat room we all watched that demo video together and then like eight eight time box of ten fifteen minutes if you're own and now everyone is going and doing that same exercise that any just it or i just did on their own they're taking the notes and they come back and then at the end of them their their time bucks period of doing the practice you know how did you feel about that wasn't easier than you expected it was gonna be harder than you expected it was gonna be then we have to volunteers share their work in front of the entire class anes we would critique them and we'd give them constructive feedback and say here's what you hit you know you're not only that we show them our example so they did the the second source on their own and then we show them the teacher versions they could compare and contrast their own beginner version with the teacher thing what do you think you missed what what do you think you got what do you think he got right what do you think you could do better next all at a specific time in one of the challenges with teaching something online at a specific time is a lotta people can make it at that time that's right without an issue for you it was i mean we had folks that were willing stay up in the middle of the night a you know from japan or or the philippines participate which is always amazing but also like kind of heartbreaking like there should be a better way to do this yeah yeah i know i i just in australia and i i feel like that would be a big issue for me waking up in the middle of the night i just want to wake up one time six in the morning to get a time lapse of the sun coming up and alarm and i just said no i'm gonna go back sleekness now come on you're not gonna go back to sleep and i got myself up and i did it end even that is painful were just talking about eight o'clock hour with a full day with a six hour trip day of training so intense in some ways it's actually better if i'm going to commit then i might as well get six hours instead of a one hour session i that's how you did it let's talk a little bit about amy's health issues because that's what kept you guys from being able to continue like this and being able to write 'em what's what can you talk about what i feel like she had been open about it yeah well so there's i'd say there's her health issues and also the fact that we were doing this as i mentioned a couple times on the side so we have other commitments beside this doing a live course 'em an potentially getting pulled into a client project or a deadline or something like that is something that actually happened to me before we shifted ended up boot camp version we had sold you know it seems like a hundred and fifty some odd seats to the semester long course we had done a whole revamp on the course and a few weeks in i was like totally drowning in a client project a anyways frankly pissed at me and she's like what what's going on over there an i had to be honest like i i'm over committed i screwed up 'em i i feel terrible about it and i mean that in in the most honest way possible i wanna make it right so so you know that over committing to that point i would like if it makes sense all i'll give my portion of the money back from this last version of the course 'em engage i did i absolutely did in the interest you know in my mind it's i value the friendship more than the money but also i value the potential to ever worked together again a it you know if and when i dig myself out of the problem my creative myself which fairly confident but i would so so yeah i mean i think that that experience early on sort of established what men amy's professional relationship is gonna be like which is like stuff's gonna pull us away from this business is business isn't isn't gonna be the number one priority fry there of us until we together decided that it is 'em so we need to be able to be honest with one another when when things aren't going the way we want them to when one or other is not holding up their end does not work i haven't done client work i'll do a little bit of one on one coaching here and there but i definitely haven't done designer or working in a very long why do you think you have been start at a software company m i mean a big part of it is i never got good enough writing software 'em i was i was better is part of a sophomore team when i started indie hall the there was a point where i was working more on like business process and community building an community management and leadership anos spending more time on that and there's more interest in that and lessen the development and i had to make a decision i can't i don likely then i'm gonna be able to invest in both and continue getting good at both so i have to pick one and i picked the the community and leadership side of things but i've always had the background and technology and programming so i've always also worked with technology people that are never went away so that version of the course worked and then at some point you guys said you know we can't keep doing this live lincoln are people not keep having to show up in the middle of the night but we can't show up what did you do to converge from live to record it yeah so amy that was where immune health she's really did start playing into this in a much bigger way for her to be able to sit and teach even though we had the lessons prerecorded six hours of using her brain straight and coaching people would would be like physically damaging to her 'em and we had come up with an alternative and we started getting to the point where those boot camp less the tent camp courses were kind of the same script different actors every time we were fairly predictable you knew there's gonna people who get it who put in the lessons they try it works is the people who a who struggle and freak out 'cause they're not instantly good at and all of those things in between 'em anes in what we realized maybe there's a way for us to start moving towards this being a self guided course so we actually went through all of the material all the chat transcripts we were running up we can't five times a year at that point so we had about three years about fifteen sessions worth of chat transcripts we had a research assistant to go through all of them pull out the pain points where do people consistently freak out okay we need to build anticipate that and have a lesson or set of lessons or or or whatever it she addressed that before we get there and we stopped selling the boot camp course and we basically to be entire year of twenty fifteen off to build rebuild the entire course and scratch based on everything we've learned on the sort of three or four versions prior did that with the goal of making it so that you know if at any given point in time we were either selling the course or teaching the course and never really catching a breath or or having opportunity is create things new or support successful students for that matter 'em so we want to get to the point where we could sell the course but then the people could take the course on their own schedule we wouldn't have to commit you know twelve eighteen hours to fulfill on that or more or in some cases because we also had an extended exercise program that has guided and things like that so eight starts version didn't work first reason didn't work the boot camp version worked extremely well 'em but required are hands on right with both the sales marketing teaching and then we're like well what if we had the do is sell it and now we know the program works notable lecture putting the lessons in practice i think we could turn this into a standalone course and that was what we spent but did the first version the standalone coursework it's worked very well very very well what's offered used a host it so we put the song but the courses a itself unchangeable and they were pretty new wish rush at the time but like everything else you know we really never put a lot of energy in emphasis into what platforms were using it's sort of like what's the quickest thing off the shelf the help us get this thing going 'em we're putting all the energy into a lesson design lesson recording 'em amy wada's recordings stuff i was editing i will you do a lot of work on or feels like it is designed design is beautiful and everything even stacking the brits when i scrolled don't the brakes from the logo fall down a little flash from a firm are a amy's husband thomas is that's that's not actual flash right yeah a little bit of everything else is just it's beautiful it's simple it's elegant it's got us a clear design style is that her husband in that thomas a it's a combination of a thomas yeah okay all right and so you had this course it was finally now launched i'm wondering where you get customers is it all content i'm looking at like similar web and it looks it's like what you're getting customers is things like indie hackers where your blog posts get turned into a post on indie hackers and that customers who feel that we have a a fair bit of natural a ceo a lot of direct winking and stuff comes to content archive people we saw once we finally getting all the things we didn't do we didn't really ever pay attention to the analytics 'em so we start looking like okay people coming in their benching a bunch of stuff a and then they sign for our newsletter and the newsletter is really the one and only place that we ever south thirty five hundred itself where you think the email newsletter is the only place we sell it that's correct why i keep forgetting it what is it three thirty by five hundred thirty five hundred that's right why did you call that a the math equation thirty dollars a month five hundred customers a god if it's forgotten revenue is on the ground here yeah that makes sense 'em i look i'm putting one more thing do any eight a seal and putting your name into putting stacking the brits into h rest a format longterm i like i mentioned will they were just starting to play with ads inacio and things like that we get a decent amount of i frankly i think we get a fairly small amount of traffic but the traffic then we get in the type of content that we create seems to be very high intensity very high converting it's also the kind of content that we teach art students decree that it is a it directly oriented round specific problems that people in our audience have so it's not just like random essays of whatever worth thinking about it's a it's an example of one of the articles they use that you've written that's like that i do a one of the really common one that i referenced a lot if you go to stuck in the bricks dot com slash camp a find audience it's hyphenated you can find audience so you saw that year people have this problem and you wrote this article that's right out of find her audience is online watering hole there's only two ways to make successful stressful product one make a bunch of things and see what sticks to offer an eager customer something they're already need one and are willing to buy by the way even the way they got the numbers there it looks like a brick it's not laid evenly 'perfect it just had this we only had this really nice design we only implemented this like maybe year and a half ago we had a pretty janki wordpress blog for seven and a half years with his son unicorn freer where was a free yeah yeah did you change and infirm unicorn free even more explanation thirty five hundred a okay people do it was we amy named it that before unicorns became associated with a dollar to dollar startups it was more like a comparison between unicorns unicorns and nor walls and it was really obscure 'em by the idea that you were building real shit here yeah not the unicorn fake dang 'em all right i think i've got a good but understanding of the business yes folks i think one thing that's interesting part of the reason i had originally reached out to you so this is a little bit of the history of how we got to where we are but with any not being able to work as much recently and she's been sick and she point about marketing tools the be the beginning of last year twenty eighteen we were set up to do are first or january launch of thirty five hundred and amy a cameraman she's like i i feel terrible i'm really sick i can't i can't do this and i was like well what if i found a way to do this without you 'em how could i used everything we've built up until this point the reality is every time we launched the course it was all bespoke new new content new framing new articles essays and the vast majority of it is writing i was working more on behind the scenes editing and and a exercises and implementation tation in the course and things like that so we had a bunch of successful launches in the past i thought to myself what if i rather than amy needing to write an entirely new bespoke one i'll go back through a pass launches end what i ended up doing breathing sort of what i i've been thinking about like it's almost like a mixed tape or like a greatest hits album of articles and essays that were part of are launching the past that would do that people really liked the people responded well to and built that january launched that way a anes by the end of that launch we had blown through are best sales rickard ever since we had rebuilt the course in twenty fifteen and i realized for a for a long time i think the the roles that i played was you know isn't educational collaborator but i definitely is playing more of a supporting role in the business 'em sometimes in editors sometimes is you know doing a lesson or exercise design and i realized it the same way that like a a musician works with a producer that helps the producers were have the biggest impact possible and just down the way they want it to sound i was able to play a similar role and going through in and reorganizing and updating it editing a lot of things were written just in time things that were written around the specific event or a specific a m experience and going back and saying well how could i make sure this article isn't tied to a specific months for isn't tied to a specific season or the core lesson in here is that she buried under seven paragraphs of whatever amy was ranting about that day an edit that down into stuff so that even when he's not publishing something new even when i'm not publishing something new weaken keep the newsletter going we can keep are launches going 'em and after the first success that we did in january a i i said well i'm gonna try and do that again and i hit the numbers again so in twenty eighteen i mentioned at the top interviewed four hundred and eighty grand 'em that was like a forty percent increase over the previous year without creating anything new and really just looking back at what were some of the best stuff that we ship once but then sat on the shelf for months or years and so we start getting strategic about that and were on track you know at this year we've already gone forty percent over we we did in the first five months of last year so i'm pretty excited about where things are going there but realizing that we did everything for like nine years just in time constantly revising vising constantly creating new but then creating something never really were using it except for the court course itself 'em ends taking that sort of producer approach for the last eighteen months there's been some of the the best and the least stressful growth of are business end it's free up time to focus on the students who are already in the course the students that have launched their businesses grow their businesses more for the first time we have energy like actually track customer student success stories and working with folks like a case study buddy collect you study that's the only thing i never really had any time as we were doing it just in time 'em drew systems finally systematize and what we're already doing and as i understand it there was even a period where amy wasn't too much and she got less money from the business because of it and we had the china river mentoring what's that is that inappropriate for me to bring up no not at all so there was a situation where there's a second time that i had some life stuff going on i had a pullback in the business and we get adjusted my my share from forty percent down thirty percent for the the year twenty seventeen and twenty eighteen i was able to put in more aim is able to put in a whole lot less and we were able to readjust my 'em my percentage backup as well really again come being able to come to one another and say like what's happened honest conversation about where the businesses today and and what's changed and i'm looking forward to seeing amy's feedback on this on twitter i hope she said something very insulting where i'll be pretty disappointed 'em i like how sharp she is and how 'em biting her content is one of the things i've always appreciated about her and i'm glad that i got to know you alex thank you so much for being here if anyone wants go check out the website it's backing the bricks dot com and i wanna thank to sponsors made this interview happened the first will host your website right it's called host gator checking out of hostgator dot com slash mixer g and the second is top towel they're hiring a developer go the top towel dot com slash mixer g and finally i don't think i've dated dinna we've been killing it with mix premium where we bring on entrepreneurs to come and teach what they do best one of my favorites is ganger grown are producer said you know there's this course the founder of duck duck go he did this this course you enter a long time ago when you were producing yourself i said yeah it's great content with amazing he's no could technically not built into safari browser into chrome browser he was a founder is one of the first people recognize it goals not giving people the privacy that they needed to create an alternative actually doing really well the philippe starting to believe they start up yeah the guy starting from home 'em in the course of that had a get traction was really good so dan said i'm gonna go back and i'll just redo the whole thing i'll just redo it an andrew you introduced me to gabriel the founder of duck duck go i'll talk to him and get more content from him so that we could do a better until we did and now it's up i'm ashley integrator your out but right now it's gonna be up on mixture g dot com slash duck if you wanna get traction do it by learning and the guy who's got and kill attraction meaning people actually use this product

founder developer joe twitter damian amy alex bowman andrew warner joel eighty thousand dollars million dollars twenty minutes eighty hours three hundred dollars thousand dollars hundred dollars seventy percent thirty dollars three quarters forty percent sixty percent
Rock and Roll Heaven: Listener Gifts: Christina Grimmie

Pantheon

2:22:27 hr | 8 months ago

Rock and Roll Heaven: Listener Gifts: Christina Grimmie

"You've heard the music now. Here's the story from director frank marshall. Hbo's new documentary the bg's how can you mend broken heart. Chronicles the highs and lows of brothers berry maurice and robin gibson and the evolution of the prolific career as the bg's through interviews and never before seen footage discover how they navigated the ever changing music industry and complex dynamics of family and fame. Watch it now on. Hbo and hbo. Max you'd dig into rock and roll heaven. Podcast with lb will the drill and tj. Do hey guys welcome do rock and roll heaven. The podcast talk about the lives careers and desa famous musicians. I'm your host el d. Along with me for the ride this week is will the thrill and a good day to you and t j two very quiet. You get stuck. Yeah yeah kinda did it. Was i get my finger under the tub. Is the choice for tonight. A very simple highland pills ner today. Ooh that's it that's local one now. It is from a semi local asheville north carolina in. We went there. Didn't we or a be. Chris we we went to sierra nevada's now thailand is up in near the same area now for the play that we talk rock as rock sincere called it the happiest place on earth. That was the happiest place on the planet. Well what was Oh my gosh. What would happen last night in myrtle beach because saw it was trending on twitter. Well what happened was that The coastal carolina shanta clears Defeated brigham young at a big football game For those who aren't familiar. Coastal carolina for a long time was a branch of the university of south carolina. They broke out of the system to become their own. School started football about fifteen or so years ago only joined the fcs level. And i think the last four or five years their undefeated there were supposed to play. Somebody lasts yesterday and the game and already been chosen for college game day on. Espn two to come and do the show live from there while the other liberty who they're were supposed to by liberty comes down with covid much players into corn. They can't come so two days notice to their credit. Also unbeaten brigham young agrees to come to conway south carolina to play coastal carolina in a game that was billed as mormons versus mullets. Yeah i saw the picture. It was in and Coastal carolina wins You know. I don't know if you saw the tail end of it or not but tackle they were up files tackle. Byu inside their own. Two yard line as fire. D- all what would have been a game winning touchdown and if or e- county south carolina is still intact and not completely on fire. I'm shopped. I can imagine the i cannot imagine i imagine everyone. There had a very large time last night Yeah well one of my. My personal favorite tweets that i had found was fleetwood fill this comes from fleets would fill on twitter at said corona virus along with mono the spanish flu whooping call cholera. Whatever happened in bird. Box and the clap looking greater conway. Myrtle beach area tonight. And and it's a guy like taken out from. The tree is in myrtle beach sort of the definition of herd immunity from most our. Thanks so yeah you could probably though in light rubella and i don't know any basically any the one can imagine yes it would write us all the crew of bugs just everything one could imagine probably but i saw somebody said that i guess there are a lot of people noticing. The crowd size last night on twitter. And gee that doesn't look safe you. They're out there. They're supposed to be distanced in the sand the stance and stuff and somebody said yeah We appreciate your carolina. Everybody's concerned but we just just trust us when we tell you. There's nothing those people right now can do to myrtle beach. Myrtle beach hasn't been doing to itself for a couple of hundred years. Now we still don't worry about it. Don't worry about this. Going to be fine. I lived in the gertie. Myrtle already myrtle i lived in the dirty. Myrtle and i will tell you. I'm fine there is. There's literally i have been in a hot tub in myrtle beach. I'll be okay. Kids so Of course this week. We didn't have our fair share of losses We sadly lost a great wrestler. Pat pat patterson canadian wrestler. Now the way we lost. David lander the actor who played squeaky oliver and shirley who i i remember growing up with that show to al and his mom loved that and she. She used to buy me the shirts with the ells on because she thought it was so cute. Yeah we'd be. I have to be honest. I if you had just told me you know his actual name. What was it up. Sally remember it if you told me that. David lander dot out said okay. Who's a book but the minute you said to me. Hey squeegee passed away. I was like no you. Yeah yeah someone just remember that he did. He do a lot of other stuff. Because i don't remember him in many other things that he had a. Yeah i mean he was in jimmy. Neutron boy genius dr little to christmas with the cranks scary movie titan a e. So are less mad about you. Well yeah johnny. Bravo show nash. Bridges like you're getting into stuff where like the tick dream on a. We're getting the only people of a certain age would remember. Wait a minute. Here's an arlo and dream all. Yeah while these to be a one two punch right there for ya. Wow and and then sadly we lost a member of the comedy community. his name was kenny. Ortega was a comedian from new york. have found that out through a game that play call. Hq trivial august might play it but But yeah he passed away so three very sad. Losses a permissive. Anybody as it were sorry like twenty twenty has just been like The rolling dumpster fire fill with verbis that. That's a really interesting analogy. That the sounds of the parties to rolling down the street on fire on fire. Yeah those shows a little weird. It's like a mule wagon full of teddy rook spins rolling toward volcanoes direction. And allow me to read you a story but the batteries are in found phone. Oh all right. Well let's get to our subject to wrench because we've just leave just given all our listeners. Like the most nightmare fuel possible. I underline everyone sleep. Well dream on kids As an intro to today's episode. I kind of want to say this as my job as a casting producer. You have this kind of motherly instinct with anyone that you find. You grow accustomed to talking to these folks especially you want them to to know how special they aren't how important they are because they truly are. They have a gift or talent. That is the reason why you reach out to them. And you found them and today's subject is very rooted in reality show and she's very rooted in the youtube community. And when you find these guys you do feel kind of like a mom to them. So i have have this artist. His name is an. I found him for american idol and he made the top ten a couple years back. And i'm still in touch with him. I still make sure he has a new seventy thanksgiving good christmas. You check in on these guys. A lot of them are still my friends on facebook or we talk on instagram. Things like that. So it's really hard when you hear that someone in the reality community has passed away and we felt that staying again on the show that i normally work for american idol. We lost a season. One contestant nikki mckibbin at the age of forty two a brain aneurysm. And it's it's so incredibly sad. Because she was a mom and also you have to think like neidl started twenty years ago. That doesn't say like twenty twenty nineteen twenty years ago. Two thousand dollars. Why can't do math. But you know it's hard and so today we're gonna talk about one of the hardest losses that the reality show community had and that is the deaths of christina grimmie and christina. Grammy was born christina. Victoria grammy to tina albert grammy in the marlton section of eve's ham township new jersey on march the second nine hundred ninety four long people. Yeah and not only that. But she's i think one of the youngest people we've talked about on this side the the nineteen ninety four date when he said that. Just kinda grabbed me Yeah we're talking in the past tense about somebody who was born in nineteen ninety four so i mean. I was a freshman in high school in one thousand nine four. Now's the year you graduated. Wasn't that ninety. Three i was. I was felt freshman in college. She was born in ninety. Four ninety. four. She's in crackers. The winner of one thousand nine through nineteen ninety four in southern new jersey. Maybe you remember. This will real. It was super harsh. Yeah it was. It was for us. It was someone enjoyable because we were getting snow days all the time but we had blizzards our outages. I do remember that time as a kid. He have a different perspective. You know does it. Does it have to be like next level horrible to get a snow day affair. It depends a lot of it has to do with the conditions of the road so you can actually get very little snow but it can freeze and calls a snow day because of the ice so it really depends but sometimes in this case no is just you know eighteen inches high. And they're like no schools gross. Yeah they used to have a snow. Phone would say like we didn't have this in south carolina because if there was one flake of snow somewhere in the township of chester. The school was closed. And you're out of bread milk immediately. Yes capping as you would. You would call this line. Which was like uncle area core code. I think it's eight four four and then snow and they would basically tell you on record line when schools were still open. It's funny because a lot of the young ladies in this area would often give outfits. No phone is their phone number to unwanted advances. Just now that if you get a phone number to bar and thank you for calling the flow area snow phone. She's probably from my hometown. So just think of that is awesome. That's funny way we would have to huddle around a radio listening to c. If they announced that we were gonna be out. They ended up having to The tv stations and radio stations having to establish some kind of a code word for a school district. Because like somebody like ill day with. Just call the tv stations. I hi. I'm calling from the school district in those cool. Tamara out. that are this right. Did i actually do that. I don't think you did that. I was using this as an example. But you may well have. It's not uncommon for us to make mischief now back in those days that is so so just to get an idea of what was going on in new jersey at the time it was cold and snowing and there had been some like little ice storms and snowstorms and as marsh approach there. Were people running with anticipation for the arrival of spring. The grammy's and this is this is going to come up constantly their devout christians and they were making preparations not only for spring with the birth of their child and on sunday march the twelfth nineteen ninety four. The lives of the grammy's changed forever. They were blessed with the birth of their second child. A daughter who they named christina victoria grammy. Their first child was a son that they had named marcus. Smart and they had been that he had been born a little bit more than fifteen months earlier on december seventh nineteen ninety-two almost from birth. Her and her brother were inseparable at a very young age. She would attentively watch him play video games and then while he wasn't around she'd secretly try to learn to play the games herself and the marcus discovered that she was trying to do this and she pleaded with him to teach her and then rather than discouraged her. He decided teacher and he was amazing. How quickly she was able to master the game. Once you taught her how to play. She was like a born gamer shoes particularly fond of the zelda games now will the throw is going to weigh in on something here because i am a passive gamer. I i have the kind of games. I like to play which is usually anything that was on the super nintendo. One of my favorite games was super bowls and ghosts. Which apparently you can't really win. Which i didn't know that But t remember. When you were growing up i would watch you. Play pitfall for our words. Yes yeah but think about that pitfall. Which was the they all dettori. Twenty six hundred a pitfall you just played. There was actually a time limit on it. Yeah so it was like twenty minutes but we've been we would play like journey escape which was based on the band. Journey was beserk frog has aalst and literally had no end. Yeah they did not have any end because pitfall harry is that now i had friends who had nintendo so i did. I did play zelda. And i never got to the end of the thing that is also one that does not end. You'd actually goes into a second quest. Which is a repeat of the first they move stuff around and then allegedly from there it would sort of repeated move things around in the so it was supposedly never ending but okay so this. This is totally unrelated. Everything i this is. Since you've brought up it occurred to me about a year or two ago. i had never beaten mike tyson. Mike tyson's punch out of gotten to him and everybody off found it online. And i played that game over and over and over until i beat mike tyson. Don darren is hard to do. It's very it's very hard to do. She totally into she loved him. She'd play zelda all the time now when it would come to games that required to more players. Her favorite competitor was her brother. Marcus would always be player number one and she would always be player number two when they were old enough to get twos. Sina actually has a player to attitude on her arm and marcus has on his right arm player one because of zelda's oak arena of time on shadow temple at the bottom of the wealth are two of the darker dungeons in the game. Her parents actually ended up taking games away from them because those particular areas of the games were giving them nightmare. So i can back that up. Because i've played this which is actually ranked by many publications as the best game ever made zillow of time and this particular level has this shadow. Boss which is is truly terrifying and that someone again. I played this at this time. So i was in my late teens and it scared me. It was this kind of wraith like boss with red eyes but its hands were disconnected from its body so they could just move around and kind of chase you. It was really quite terrifying and yes shadow temple was a very scary place but to this day players still lament how difficult the water temple is. If you ask anybody about the water temperature time they'll go most frustrating doesn't yeah. Well i only i like play the fear based games but i like watching you play the fear based games to scare them gonna fail at. It will never get to the end zone now. Her mother worked as a receptionist for a time but she had given it up when it was discovered that in nineteen ninety-five teen actually had breast cancer and it was the first of several bouts of breast cancer for her and it was going to be an ongoing struggle fourteen throughout christina short life. Marcus was a little over two years. Old and christine was only one when she was found to have cancer so a basically from her birth. Her mother was fighting breast cancer. A quote from tina. How do you explain to such a young child that their mom has a sickness that could result in her death. Bud which is albertz nickname and tina. Try their best to expand their children. Mommy was very sick. Would need to spend time at the hospital now and again. They also told them that because mommy was very sick that she might have to leave them and go to be with jesus forever. This is very delicate. Emotional subject to explain such young children about the harsh realities of life and in those times. When tina went into the hospital christina would beg her mother to leave the hospital income home and basically what would happen was preceded be taken to the hospital to see her mother and she would never let her go shoots snuggle up to her and just try to spend as much time with her as possible because with these things it was really touching. Go at this time. Especially since like nineteen ninety-five medicine isn't as good as what we have now. Of course so it was possibly less of a success rate of survival so no one ever knew but christina a really made an effort to spend time with her mother and that made their relationship grow extremely close so they had developed inseparable bond with each other and jumping forward in time. When she was eight she was found to be in stage. Four of her second bout with breast cancer now and it seemed a foregone conclusion that tina's thomas limited there wasn't much the doctors nurses do except for make her comfortable and ease her pain but to everyone's amazement the swelling in her body started going away by itself against overwhelming odds. Tina's cancer went into remission. Iraqis healing was part of the reasons. Why the grammies have such a deep faith in god and whether such a close knit family you can see like you know her. Her cancer clearing up made their faith even stronger because they would spend hours praying and reading the word of god and so they were very very religious. I cannot understate this enough that her her belief in her strength and god was so incredibly strong up from a very early age. Her parents that christina had a very special gift for music. Marcus remarked that christina probably started her singing career while she was still in the womb. Her mother would also say that the bay a baby. She was saying la la la instead of talking whenever she would get a bath. Her mom would be like okay. Baby sing to jesus because there's no child that actually enjoys getting a bath. Now now restore christina loved to sing and she actually wrote songs even when she was young. She told an interviewer that she would her when she was five years. Old and a lot of those songs are on her faith in god to five just five and she was writing songs. I mean like. I look at my life and i what have i accomplish. This girl was writing songs. Used five years old as ridiculous and three point nine seven million subscribers hitter I have seventy seven on my face on my my youtube channel. Seventy seven somewhere. I've got a crash near a hundred forty. Well look at you. Mr ad revenue. Mr click bait. Oh yep that's handsome. Remuneration comes with a hundred subscribers when he was ten years on her parents decide to splurge and bartering electric piano if it was an excellent condition even though it was used and it was a decent price they also provided her with piano lessons but she she had difficulty learning how to read the notes so she taught herself how to play the piano by ear which is crazy to me as she played a variety of other musical instruments as well including qatar. But she didn't actually master the art of playing the guitar so she did kind of what did and she just taught. Her brother had to play the guitar. Coke zero yeah. She pulled the doug hopkins which was like. I can't play this why. Why don't i teach you how to play. And she did so. Marcus was amazed at what christina showed him and he was able to master the guitar she would occasionally get her friends and singapore songs while playing in one those gatherings would become important later for who she would create a bond with and just a cute little fun fact. It's not doesn't even okay. Well you gave it to me anyway. He named her p anna lucas. No reason given she just named her piano. Lucas honey was named by car dirk. Yeah there's there's logic behind that lucas sort of rosebud right. Yeah someone knows what it is. Yes please chat us hit us up on our social is let us know if lucas lucas all christina and her other friends from childhood lauren longo mid fourth grade and lauren is going to be a major major force in her life they met in fourth grade and she also had a friend sarah and oh my goodness i'm going to destroy this last name. Lou beckmann luke luke so these three girls bonded over all sorts of things a stuffed animals miniatures. I'm assuming that the stuffed animals are probably beanie babies on guessing. Yeah because it's like the mid nineties with ten and they will get together and they would saying they actually had a. And i'm using bunny ears. Girl group that they called the godly girls also acted out scenes from their favorite. Tv shows during recess and they would get together at each other's homes. Lauren and sarah would often spend part or all their weekends with christina and on the weekends that christina and her friends would put together they ladies little parties they would watch spongebob. Spongebob shot forever. Show's been on forever cheese and the tv show psych which is really funny They challenge each other video games and naturally she would challenge her friends to zelda and usually beat them and they would take turns using the karaoke machine in the basement and they would see silly songs. They made up as well as popular songs and as they grow older. They would also work together to produce videos for sarah and lauren's youtube channels. We'll get to youtube in a minute. parcels yes. It is while they were still in elementary school. Christina and lauren would visit their own language and it was based on baby talk and they would approach babies at the mall in churches and other public places and they would strike up conversations with the babies using their invented language. Basically all this information just as hell you like. She was a kid he was it was it was esperanto and or perhaps a language that twins teach to one another. That's so there's a creepy story about that. There's many stories about that s rondo. Well-done goodridge there s veron. It's kinda like english in spe. The anguish isn't it you know. That's all beatles. Gerardo spanish gerardo. While a surprisingly the first time she ever saying in public was when she was twelve years old and it was at church and she remembers getting some lyrics wrong but thanks to the fact that she was singing with a choir no one actually seemed to notice but she also remembers how nervous she was before enduring the performance. It was something that she recognized that she would have to overcome if she were gonna make seeing a career for herself. Which i mean could you imagine like realizing that twelve like oh i got to get over this. If i'm going to do this. I gotta i gotta note. Upper shut up even knew what this was. Is is some bright. Yeah so this. Is the part story that i think all of us kind again. Because as she matured she realized that there were some darker things she would have to deal with in life. The fact is she was bullied. She was really modest and she would change her gym clothes in the restroom in rather than the locker room because of this word got around and she was often ridiculed and mocked by her classmates across me song girl who wouldn't their girls in the trains room yes and some people make fun of the way she dressed because she was kind of like made. I would rather wear baseball shorts and a tee shirt and jeans. And i don't really care what people think about my sense of style. There's one person on the planet that does care about my sense of style and that's my mother so not me but she. She was a kid. She was more concerned with being comfortable than she was with. Being fashiony stuff you know to dress a lot like her dad in that regard. Choose very much like her father when it came to fashion like she wasn't into it and people make fun of her for it and that sucks because people are jerks. Children are tiny tiny jerks. Teenagers dwarf yeah. So what what deep you know if you really think children are just tiny jerk. No sense of irony man. You've never traveled. I uh fully. As she grew older she became aware of how other girls dressed and how they use makeup and how they were they were trying to be more mature than her. Mother loved to help christina go shopping for new clothes or give her tips on how to apply makeup properly but christine was also aware because of her mother's ongoing bout with cancer. They really didn't have a lot of money like they didn't have a lot of you. Know expendable income and so she couldn't go on these lavish shopping sprees or get super. I mean we'll understand the cost of makeup. Now right i have a better perception thanks to you. Yes yes and you can get like make up like some of the seventy five eighty dollars like there's a. There's a lotion out there. That sixty bucks so they just can't splurge on that stuff so that would leave them with very little bit of money because of what her mom was going through. Her brother actually caught onto the fact that she is being bullied and her brother gave some really good advice about not letting it get to her. He said just be yourself. You're the only one of you. And that made a lasting impression on her christina had posted on her social media. People aren't born strong. People grow stronger little by little encountering different situations learning not to run from them in writing songs often write about things that are actually happening in her life and the lives of her fans including being bullied in her song. Everybody lies which is on her posthumous album. All is vanity. She closes the song with the following words of encouragement for her listeners. And fans you are an extremely unique an individual person. and i'm telling you don't let those invalid opinions of others. Just bring you to the pits. Okay you were strong so love. May she had also spoken the same words in a video chat. She posted on her social media account and they were based largely in part on the loving words and advice that marcus used to encourage her during her childhood years. So that was a little bit in the future now. His friend lauren. Longo was the one who introduced christina to youtube in two thousand nine. Think about that. I think youtube started in two thousand eight. Which would make her one of like the early youtubers and lauren attempted repeatedly to convince christina to start her own channel lawrence showed her several videos of people singing and playing musical instruments and telling christina that she thanks so much better than they did. So christina resisted lauren. At first and then finally kind of cave in because she was done being badgered by her friend which she would. You know lovingly say badgered by my friend. It was cute so she finally posted a video. Just to get lauren to stop she. She was unsure what direction she wanted her channel to take and so she held off on a couple of months trying to figure out what to do with the channel. And that's that's what you have to do when you're choosing what to do with the youtube channel is it going to be like using vases is going to be a blog. Is it going to be actually like produced videos and things like you gotta know where you what direction you wanna take your channel in order to drugs out of gano. Just yeah racial whiteboard will you. Yeah just gatos. Brilliant love joe. If you guys don't know who. Joe santa gado is i can't. He's like the matrix. I can't. I can't tell you what joe santa gado is. You just have to be shown it yourself. So go out and look for joe santa god. 'cause he's brilliant so initially. She actually thought that she was going to do gaming choosing to focus on gaming on her channel because of how much she loved zelda and other games and so she her handle on. Youtube is actually zelda. Love sixty four on the nose. Yeah which is as back when you could actually pick what name you wanted to not be like. I love cottage cheese. One six eight four two nine the Taken sorry ya why We have to take a short break for our ad sponsors and we will be right back and we're back jumping back into christina's story so she finally posted her first music video on youtube on july seventeenth. Two thousand nine playing her piano and singing a cover of the miley cyrus song. Don't wanna be torn from the show. Hannah montana now. Share this song with you right now. The quality is not that great. Because it's a youtube clip from two thousand and nine which all youtube clips from two thousand nine kind of looked like it shot on a potato and it sounds like it was recorded on a route abega. So i'm going to play it. But i just wanted to show you guys her. I like her first experience on youtube out. The gate off nafta latin dry. You can get good vigia on a tighter. H her as her that at all each thurs sorry to the rock and roll heaven family autos for nothing i regret are i'm gonna play you. Guys the genesis of her career. So here is i. Don't wanna be torn by hannah montana. Which by the way. I hate to ruin the the mistake for you but Miley cyrus is hannah montana. Yeah but she's only hannah montana when she's wearing the wig. So here's i don't wanna be torn. i don't wanna be torn a hannah montana and we plan on and some of the nose wrong. You know whatever. I'm going for like week now sued meal Okay so just so you guys know. This song was an immediate hit on youtube as today. That video has over one point. Two million views shirts. It's got twenty thousand likes and only three hundred. Fourteen dislikes go jerks. Ice would give that a dislodge. Kamal because trolls gotta troll man. Also i don't understand the point of the dislike button on youtube. It just feels like that was prepared just for jerks to be able to use it if if i should ring rename that the i'm dick button here pretty much like you can't just say to yourself at really care if that move on. No no no nuts. I don't make somebody feel terrible about themselves. She's fifteen years old learned fifty. She was going to say we did the math. As long as she's fifteen at at this time and an incredible even fifteen you can see the power that she's going to have like her voices so unique and cool and like rusty. And i love it like. She's got like a little bit of that grind in the back of her voice which i loved when woman a woman has and she's fifteen so to those three hundred fourteen people your awful you terrible your terrible human beings you know what what if you had a dislike button push. It is bad wrong. Awful bad wrong and awful jerks isis yet. So because of this. She started getting more messages in more emails asking her to post more songs. And if i her. Mom really didn't want to do this in something. That was kind of eerily prophetic. She was more concerned about some crazed fan trying to check to track her down and possibly hurt. Her york's while by contrast her father thought it was a really good idea. He saw how many people were positively reacting to her videos and didn't want to stand in the way of her success in her potential career. Well as you point out also. Youtube is a fairly new platform at this point. I don't think people knew what to make of it quite yet. Yeah it was. It was something. I mean like just like a year prior. I believe there is a fourteen second videos like where at the zoo and we behave like we're sitting in a movie theater and there's a train coming toward us crime. What is this. I wanna actually. Now i'm thinking about it. You oh seven or i cause i distinctly remember in two thousand eight. Believe it was that they allowed people to load questions to youtube for presidential candidates to answer in a debate reimbursement if memory serves. Yeah so this would have been you know early. Mid eight i guess so leading up leading up to the two thousand eight election. I if i if i may be missed remembering that but i'm almost sure our call that apparently they created the service in two thousand five. Okay in two thousand six some beside the point really but i just think that popped in my head. 'cause i remember somebody uploading one of like a an animated snowman began. I mean you know. It's this is really kind of the dawn of to still. It's still very new. It's it's a it's it's just gonna coming into the public consciousness and yeah because it takes time for stuff to take off like this so. Her mom was kind of nervous at christina becoming so popular and knowing that what she would have to do is if she wanted to become a a singing sensation that they would eventually have to move california or new york or nashville to make her dream. Come true and she the reason why she was a word about it was. She's on her second or third bout of cancer which it just she keeps it keeps popping up and she keeps going into remission. He's coming back. Keeps coming back and moving to california would mean starting over and try trying to find medical caregivers doctors that she was comfortable with treatment centers that she could go to but and then you know being far away from all of her friends and her family and and what would happen if her health took a turn for the worst but she she realized how popular christina was becoming and she decided that her health issues. We're not gonna stand the way of her career so they decided to take that leap of faith and moved to california. While her first video that she posted was the valley. Sarah song and then she posted another miley cyrus song which was party in the usa and ad video went viral and eventually chief almost thirteen million views while thirteen million views and posthumously. She still has three point nine million subscribers. How for something. Like her version of miley cyrus partying the usa going viral. I assume when you're fifteen or sixteen that's gotta be awesome. Probably yeah so. She kept posing videos imposing videos. Eventually she caught the eye of brian. Tv i hope i'm saying that last name right. Sorry but because he is the stepfather and the manager of selena gomez and. I'm assuming even you know who's selena gomez a right has like super cherubin face. She's adorable. She's so cute disney rent. Yes she's a. She's a disney disney. The cheap date to kids or something probably. Yes i think they did roku. She's very very credible star. Something about the last fifteen years of pop culture but we'd barely but yeah. I've vaguely recall seeing that simpler. Well her mother mandy selena gomez. His mother mandy was equally impressed with christina and they actually made a couple of tips to contact her to offer to manage her and her career but the volumes of emails in christina's inbox were so great their attempts to contact her literally went unnoticed. That's how was like jews like she was getting so many requests like. Oh do this do this song. Or oh you're great She had so many in her inbox at the email. From selena gomez foggier. Oh hot sane. While no. So her her. Selena gomez stepdad. Brian did something that i would do in casting. Because here's the thing if you go. I'm going to give you guys a little bit of a youtube tutorial if you go into the section on if you click on his name is popped up with their channel and they have like a bar on top which has videos communities likes that data but there isn't about button on there so if you click the about button it'll take you to a different page which you in some cases if they've chosen to put it out there you can get the contact information for that artist. So that's how. I'll find somebody on youtube and say you know. I really like this person. We contact that that kid and try to get them to audition for whatever reality show. I'm working on and that's find a lot of people because they give they provide that about button. Now that's how he tried to get in touch with her but he did something in one of her videos. She had included her brother. Marcus in the video and inside the video analytics like in the about section for that video. She had posted his youtube channel so they actually contacted like three followers and so he was ahead. Yeah so he's lacrosse that email and he wasn't actually sure it was legitimate but when he noticed that the actual count was from selena came to the realization that oh crap. This is real. Keep heck's message. His sister who is in math class at the time and she thought that he was pulling a prank on her and then she slowly came to the realization ono. This is not a prank. She discovered in her career was about to blossom in her. Life was about to change for ever. Now it should be said that christina understood this. How much hard work went into creating a youtube channel. And i can tell you this for a fact because the thing is you have to know what you want to produce. You have to know what you wanna do. You know what direction you wanna take your youtube channel and then you have to get everything that you'll need to make your youtube channel. Which is a a youtube channel account which is a logger supplied. Put together then. You have to get a decent camera. You have to get your instrument if your music you have to you have to. Is your lighting setup. You have to have your your stuff created. You have to do your makeup just right if you wanna be perfect on camera. It takes a lot of work that you have to edit it then you have to update it and then you have to get it into the system and i. I don't even remember when dial up wasn thing anymore. So i'm just gonna go with the fact that ed dial up sucked but Create a youtube channel. It takes a lot of work and consistently putting out. A content is really important because the youtube algorithm will not suggest you. If you're not putting out stuff to three times a week derp other people who post almost daily. Yes and it's really interesting because narrow people that we loved on youtube that don't post as much and they won't get recommended and we forget the bay exist such as joe. Santa gonna agree people like jamaal post like two videos a day. Yeah because of that. People post content post post post post post that algorithm work case. So she is a perfectionist. She would work days or weeks on a single song to get to the point where she was satisfied with the results. But it was worth it. And i'm going to prove that to you in just a little bit but In two thousand and eleven grammy joins selena gomez and the scene as the opener on the we own the night tour and their friendship blossomed and grammy took major inspiration from her musical friend. She's been great. She said of gomez new two thousand eleven interview with mtv news. I can't explain it. She was in my place at one point. But i learned what i learned from. Her is just keep going. So she also touring was selena. Two thousand eleven and she's really looking up to selena because lena was in her spot years before. Now and i was gonna say. But i'll also grammy is like seven sixteen seventeen years old. Yes yes yeah at this point. She releases the ep. Find me in two thousand eleven and this is about three years before we get to will consider her like big break. Which is the voice. Which is why. I keep talking about reality. Shows it debuted at number thirty five on the billboard. Two hundred charts contained the hit song advice and liar liar. At the time of the he's released the singer had just moved to los angeles to further her music career. Grammy attended cherokee high and left that in two thousand tend to be homeschooled heard. Selena gomez actually appeared together in a two thousand eleven connect at which they challenged the scene to a game a virtual football And the bills from as really cute. 'cause they're wearing their tennis whites and is really cute and so christine started actually earning money from her youtube channel. Because if you guys don't know you can earn ad revenue from your youtube channel. Based on the algorithm of how many subscribers have or how many clicks you have or how many licenses like cutie pie. I don't think has to ever work again. Probably now even though channel got cancelled right now yeah everybody gets cancelled at some point every single. Yeah i'm waiting to be canceled. That's really kind of the level of success that you want the right that people care enough to cancel you. Yeah yeah so. She starts earning money and sending up her count. She had partners with various advertisers to generate this income. The amount of revenue earned was based on the number of factors including how many subscribers you have the number of viewers who click on ads given the enormous amount of expense that her family had to deal with as a result of her mother's medical issues. Any kind of income for the family whether it was larger small relieve some of that stress that they were going through and she she felt a strong sense of obligation of gratitude toward her parents for their support and was happy to help out any way she could. It seems like she's just an awesome child. Now who's an awesome awesome kid. Yeah yeah don't yeah. Just an awesome kid. I mean she hasn't done anything that was problematic. Nothing like she's just an awesome like super talented perfectionist driven. Kid just like me right travis. Yeah nice year s average audible question mark at the envious. Okay try a little harder trout. War time yes there is all right so there's a trend in the youtube community. That if you want to expand your following like creative a larger fan base for yourself what you need to do is collaborate. You need to do collaborations with people that are bigger than you. And that's people like mike. Tompkins sam show and one of my personal favorites tyler ward and alex group. She found herself reaching out to some of them. But it turned out that others were actually trying to reach out to her so she was gaining this falling of people who wanted to work with her and she wanted to work with people so collaborations were not a problem. She loved this community that She had cultivated through her videos. And so this is interesting. So she's becoming very early youtube star. Yes he is now humming influ were based almost solely of what she was putting on her channel. There were people who wanted to work with her. Yeah yeah because she was so talented. This was this very. It's almost like a the whole dynamic of everything. Sorta changed when we started to get into the social media and youtube. Because the you you of brought the you didn't have to go to go out and find a third party to sell so you to an audience you could build it yourself and because this this would never have happened before this to website will you will shoot. You don't have a record contract and you're not on television and you're not always like will. Yeah but i've got a million subscribers on youtube so it's a very do it yourself model but this didn't exist much before this and i i you know what i'm gonna say this right now. I'm gonna get on my soapbox. Here's my soapbox it is. It's an irish springboks harder. I hate it when people say the phrase. Oh yeah but they're just on youtube. I hate that. I hate it when people are like. Oh but they just youtube videos. Would you know what they're self made. They work really hard at their craft and they found a platform that works for them well and if unused uses light. You can't like like there's a couple of all of us like the three of us watch. You can't watch and that the does not talented. Yeah he's he's he's incredibly funny and thing is some people just wanna create on youtube because they wanna have control they wanna have complete creative control right but you can't watch people like like him or of others inside will well. There's no talent there. well no no. There is incredible it to to put together something. That's entertaining enough to draw. A few million eyeballs is not easy. Yeah and the thing is is like okay. People look down on reality stars because are other big others on reality. Tv well who cares. They got their start somewhere right. You know their name because of this and as you point out it'll be you know. Setting up. a youtube. Channel takes a considerable amount of time and resources. And you're putting your own money into that and you're not getting anything back for potentially forever. I love we watch se. You know it was years before they got any sort of monetization able to quit the job at that point. Yeah and i mean you look at someone who i mean i know. He's he's been canceled. The chain dawson. He was on this platform for years. And thing is he changed his from doing skits to doing like the conspiracy stuff. And i think the conspiracy stuff israeli where he like picked up his audience. So like knowing what your audience wants knowing what they're looking to you for israel important and you're taking all this on by yourself you're taking on this business model by yourself. You're cultivating your fan base by yourself. You're creating content yourself you're putting yourself out there and you're not doing any kind of backing of studio or a Any kind of company. That's bad no publicity. No publicity or promotion other than what you generate your sales correct exactly and then people kind of spit on tiktok. But i'm like they're creating content. They're doing these dances. And there's create they're creating these like little videos out there. I'll tell you who. I think i think i'll tell you who we can. All agree or talent taxes podcasters. Oh yeah oh those who missed. Cut literally phone this show in i. We zoom this sherwin resume it. Actually in france detected ways. Yeah there's a high bar around here to clear. Yep so so. She loved this community of course because she cultivated through her videos. Here's the thing. She was super modest almost to a fault and in one of her collaborations with mike collins. Mike express his gratitude for being able to work with the talented christina. Grammy and her media response was to ship the focus back to mike and point out to the viewers all the types of electrical equipment that he had and the skill took to use that equipment and then undeterred mike immediately turn the focus back on christina and her piano and that exchange between the two of them was one of the examples of the many traits that she exhibited that would endear her to fancy. It wasn't about like look at me. I'm amazing i i. It was like hey guys this dude super talented listen to him. Look at what he can do. And i think something that we're not used to someone giving the attention over to somebody else. I think it's always like that nicole ter- you know After being discovered by the tv's and it might be tv's or chief as so sorry christine. Her mother were invited to spend five weeks during the summer in california and it was an opportunity. That many might have That that they knew that it might never be able to happen again. It would be a great opportunity for her to be close to the people that she needed to meet and to kind of get ahead in her career. Many are artists as well as regular executives lived in california and her chances of being signed by a major record label or a studio would of course the much more hot plausible. It was a big step in one that she actually devoted a lot of time in prayer to make her decision. Now it seems like. I'm jumping back and forth in time and i kinda am because we've already said that she moved to california but it jumped back and forth because of what's happening with youtube and what's happening with selena gomez and all this stuff in so i know it's not my normal linear timeline. So sorry for that. But you know spoiler alert. She moves to california. Yeah now in the midst of all of this fame. She's actually trying to keep up with education. She wants to learn. She is a a reader. she's a learner. She she really loves to be yes. She loves her education with all the mandate replace on her. It was actually really difficult if not impossible to maintain an active participation with her formal education. So it was really hard for her to be able to attend classes all time. So dropping out of high school to pursue. A career wasn't something that she wanted to do but she knew if she waited until she finished high school that she could lose her chance at any kind of career which is really sad. When you're like sixteen seventeen year high need to get a move on. Because i am not getting any younger. That'd be has been here really soon. Unlike six months. I'm gonna be too old but that's the thing like the music industry is very young new now. We don't is a little bit different in the acting world because you have people like us sif corral who decided at age forty. He wanted to be an actor which is fine. But you don't see people that are forty getting into the music industry very very very rarely very rarely who the lady was on the britain's got talent got real famous. She was older wasn't seasonable. Al yeah but that those are our super few and far between and also a look at talented. She is and be. It's a reality show not right. It wasn't her going. Through the normal channels of recording the demos sending it out to studios having those studios listen to her and then producing her now. Is her going on a reality. Show and gaining fame. That way. it's it's almost the exact same approach that christine going to be taking but her prayer was answered and her aunt. Cathy agreed to homeschool her for a number of her high school courses. Her aunt had four children and had successfully homeschool to all of them and choose able to complete her junior and senior year through homeschooling with tutors and she wanted to learn using proverbs. Eighteen fifteen as a guide. She would also continue to read the bible as well as many other christian books and not just inter schooling but in her tutoring as well. She was asking an interview if she missed out in the social activities or other events when she was being home schooled and she said that she didn't because she found that You know being home schooled was a lot of fun and for missing any social events. She really didn't miss any social events because she wanted to the senior prom with her then boyfriend of four years because he was a year ahead so she actually got to go to the prom so she wasn't like missing out on anything anything about like the fact that she was born because of the way she dressed in her makeup and stuff like that like homeschooling would have been great for me. I would have looked so she's going to the prom. And i'm trying to figure out when graduating went about two thousand eleven two thousand twelve. Yeah so on february eleventh. Two thousand twelve shortly after christina. Moved to california whitney houston who we will be covering next year appear in our draft. A died tragically. She was deeply saddened by the news. As whitney had been a role model it seems almost implausible. That when he's been dead. But yeah like if you if you asked me to guess what year i'd be like. Oh man it was god that had to be like two or three years ago. I get years. it was like eight. You know most non. What's even sadder bobbi kristina. Her daughter. Oh who died almost the same way. She did so sad a. She was deeply saddened by the news. Because whitney had been role model for her and her music and she shared a deep connection because both of them were from new jersey. Both were raised in the christian face. Both of them would you came from a musical family now. Where as christine had to work with dean dionne warwick was her godmother. Something like that takes out thelma. Houston was singer. Yeah both of them. Were gifted singers. Both were presented with opportunities early on in their lives. And almost every woman who sings i can think of frahm the late eighties until about that time. Were probably influenced by whitney in some manner. Obviously yeah i mean i had a dollar for every time someone saying i will always love you hear yoki. I would be not doing this podcast. I would be rich. But that's one probably impacted a lot of a lot of aspiring musicians or people who had already made by that time. Yeah so upon. Hearing of her passing christina video tribute to whitney houston on her youtube channel. She performed. i will always love you in a video. Remembrance of late pop. End r and b diva. She opens the clip with an explanation of why she wasn't playing piano through the video and she explained the song was just so big and honestly she couldn't make it through without tearing up crying or falling short so actually share a version of the song with you right now because it's absolutely stunning. So here's christine is cover of whitney houston's i will always love you stay. I want. y'all where so cool barat and no. Thank you every step though Didn't with we so third But this oh i we're back. What do we think that girl could sing question. And that's the thing it's like. There are particular songs listed that you gotta fake your way through most of it but then they always have that one note because everybody can do at james is at last but when you get back i mean i can't so not everybody but when you when you get to that last note if you don't hit it people will turn on you and it's like dream on aerosmith if you can't hit that one note. Don't sing the song but that there's that one note that that happens in the song even stumbled drunk -ly your way through the song but if you can't hit that note here going to and boy she nailed it. Yeah that was fantastic shit on incredible and imagining that. She's just doing these videos especially on youtube. It's not like there's a lot of studio wizard wizardry going on mayor pro tools and auto tuning and stuff like that. I mean if that's what she sounded like on the video she was making her house. That's probably what you sounded like. Yeah and what's crazy is this was actually there. I could not find the original one where she talked about. You know not having the piano so you'll notice that they're backing tracks this video. That's posted on youtube actually posted on may thirteenth twenty twenty this year while she passed away four years ago so her channel is still active. So i'm assuming it's being run by her brother or her family. You know her brother her father. So selena gomez was notably intra impressed with the tribute to whitney and tweeted a link to christine video saying that she did an amazing job. That video upon its release received more than sixty two thousand views. Now a lot of people listen to the viewer actually convinced that the audio was just with houston's and that she was lying about her being able to sing it so so yeah Trolls gotta troll. But that's a that's a that's a pretty hot compliment troll. Well this obviously you. You couldn't have sung this well. This this is obviously whitney houston. Yeah we can't have nice things kids. What people knew about the deep love and connection that she had with her mom and they her fans knew how sick her mom was and her mother actually began her third battle with breast cancer. Jeez so now at this point should be said that she has a dedicated fan base like she has people that have been following her since the beginning at this point. She's had youtube channel for three years or two years and she's got fan base so people actually found out about her mom's battle with cancer and they created a video war her mother and it was a a video montage of people expressing their love and their thoughts and prayers for her mother and even members of the movie the match breaker which starred christina grammy in a leading role appeared in the video and then she showed that video to her. Mom and tina was brought to tears by the gesture so her fan base got together and created a video montage to show love to her mom. That's how much people loved. Christina imprison okay so now let's talk about what most people have been waiting for. Which is the voice. The voice if you guys don't know is a singing competition. Show on nbc. It premiered during these spring television cycle of april. Twenty six two thousand eleven. And say that i would. I would never have guessed that. Showed been on that long really reason. Yeah for some reason. I was thinking. Oh yes probably going on six years now on different. When you're old. I think it does. I think that makes a difference. I also think that the nineties were about ten years ago. So don't feel bad. And then i realized no. That was thirty years ago. And i've got one foot in the grave so it was a this. This show was a little bit different than what is direct. Competition was which american idol. So if you guys have never seen the voice the way they've it up is they do. It's called blind. Auditions and the judges have their chairs. Turn with their backs to the contestants so their judgment is based solely on the vocal ability of the singer and not their looks were whether or not they're too old or they don't look like they belong in the music industry because we know that looks as much as it sucks. Looks are important in entertainment right. Incredibly at outside part of music started to take a big downfall was when ugly people began to be excluded from the process out. Yeah i mean. Rod stewart is not an attractive man. Just i mean. Let's just be honest. About how much more of an emphasis there there there came to be placed on how you look once. Mtv debuted because there were some of those ugly ass. Big stars in the seventies. Ringo starr bob dylan. Tom petty the example that everybody always uses his right. Before at the dawn of mtv christopher cross was a big with one of the biggest stars in the world with his debut album that people saw like. Oh wow and then. There's the famous. What was that the meatloaf video where they switched out the lady who sang. Yes this controversy. Miss loud cloudy on. I was loud. They they they switched her out during. I will do anything for love. But i won't do that. I mean it's it's the or even before that a little bit before that If you remember was it a guy who was at tech neutron ick name of the pope pump up the jam. There's there's like a model lip synching in the video gorgeous model. Yeah that's that's not the senior hussein merely the nelly million than illingworth right because because the people who actually saying the middle of like like middle They were middle aged. You know studio musicians. Yeah right and then there's right said fred. Regrettably saying every does everyone who sang every note every song and your roster that was manfred. Mann's earth band the there are federally mandated math earth. Fcc that i think it was like a rider that was tongue down to the clean air. Act we have to mitch and manfred mann's earth bad every episode. No matter who it doesn't matter what the context is but they have to be mentioned that some point fulfill that thank. You haven't podcast founded on pantheon wherever you hear grant podcasts and about manfred mann's earth thank you. Is there been episode. Which has not been mentioned nine. There might have been like one or two one or two and fatullah. Clark comes up an automatic time to yeah and glass. Tiger is the other one cherry web in the spike. You look so anyway played off the tracks episode. So you guys gonna break break some ideas. I'm gonna break the social norm for you guys not everything you guys on. Tv is real even in reality. Show stop it because for any of these any of these music shows you have to be vetted and so they have open calls and i. I can't hear you over the clutching of my pearls slave. We're both gasped. Yeah well you you. You can't just show up on tv because there's a lot of vetting the has to be done because they have to do things like Making sure you have or don't have talent but but yeah there's a lot that goes into the free show that you guys see on tv. So the open calls for the season which sixties season were being held throughout june and july. Two thousand thirteen in four locations. And that being the las vegas convention center in las vegas the austin convention center in austin texas the arena at the st louis the saint louis university in missouri and the javits center in new york so people actually have to pay their own way to get to these open calls like the show isn't going to pay for you to do the open on race. You're on your own so you've got to figure out where you're gonna go so probably she's in california. I'm assuming that she's gonna go to either of the las vegas consider the convention center or should go to javits because that's close to new jersey. So she could see her family jump so no. I'm not entirely certain where she auditioned. But she watched episodes of the voice in previous seasons so she was familiar with the format and What i was saying before. Was you know. They have four judges that senators with their backs to the audience. Oh she she had watched this show and there have been some minor changes from previous seasons. But they weren't something that was concerning to her. It was going to be a challenge for the nineteen year old. She's nineteen at this point as she was up against talented singers. Like these guys were talented and jumping back in time. I'd say we're seeing. It was no stranger to awards and honors. She had been nominated and won some awards for performing on tours in two thousand eleven. She had been nominated and won the american music award in the category of new media. Honoree female in two thousand thirteen. She'd been nominated for the disney award in the category of biggest buyer artists and she had performed in the us charity in two thousand eleven and performed backup vocals. Four selena gomez and the scene in two thousand eleven It also appear on the first digital war which had been created especially four youtube morris. Now also say that With the voice there are some of the people who are trying out who are people who formerly had record contracts and hit songs. I can i can think of one. Who's from south carolina. Who was a contestant and i called it note no one picked but yes she had actually been the next big thing for a while and had like a big top ten hit record and then things just kind of went south for but she ended up on that show news. It's not like you're just showed up against like people like me but like some like some drunk dude from south carolina saying for you blake. Who was that do knew. Was that julia roberts yuli roberts. She had a big country. Hit with Breakdown here anak from. She's from lancaster. she's from. She actually did some work for our mother also. She was kind of like the next big thing for a little while. Aaron super first album went gold or platinum and she had that big big it and for whatever reason things didn't go her way but she you know my point is that she ended up as a contestant on that show. So you're not just going up against like slobs off the street. There are people who have some history and background in the industry that that appeared on there that she would have been competing against national. I'm trying to say the we were talking about ms loud. The original ms loud performed on the boys and no one turned their chairs like she was like. I just wanted to see if i still had any musical chops. He was like and i got. My answer is kind of sad to say. She's she's still can wale the no one turn their chairs. I don't think that was the american version. I think that was the uk version. That's that back up. Which says like it's not people that haven't got any kind of background at this point. On this per- this particular cycle. Few of the contestants had any stage experience at all which she actually had a lot of and course because of her experience people said that she had an edge because she had like a social media following and she'd been posting on that she had the youtube channel and ed so people thought that she had an unfair advantage because of this but of course thing is when she came on the show like yeah maybe she had made it through some producers because of that but in the end getting her on the stage what was going to get her any farther in the show was her talent and the fact that the judges turn their chairs. Like you've put. There is a great great thing on the internet. And maybe if i remember i will try to posted but neil patrick harris actually dressed up like a german or norwegian journalist and decided that he was going to audition for the show all. Let's ryo they put him on the show and nobody turned their chair around. He can actually sang a little dick any. Yeah but he did it. Very jokingly gotcha put his yet but it was so funny. That was the thing like even. You'll patrick errors. Could get people to turn their chairs around. So i mean like you have to be super talented. And that's what's gonna if you're not talented. You're not going to turn their chairs. Yeah so she participated in the open calls and one of the chance to participate in the blind auditions and that was taped sometime between october tenth and october thirteenth in two thousand thirteen now in order for her to continue onto the show. She would need at least one of the contestants to hit their button to turn the chair around during the blind audition and if more than one judge turned their chair. The contestant actually has to pick the person that they want. This is so early. This is so early in the show's existence. Who are the judges. At this point it is usher. It is shakira. It is adam. Levine ended blake shelton. Okay so second. Second iteration. I think of judging from It's now it's no longer like ceelo. Was there usher left but it was When safa'a he's been a judge so i mean it's there are a couple different iterations of the judges much like on american idol. You know how they switch out the judges sometimes so if you watch the tape which we're actually going to watch the tape. You'll see that her parents are there and there's one other person there and that is lauren and it's fitting that she's there because she played a huge part convincing kristina to start her youtube channel that had been the catalyst of launching her career so having her best friend from childhood. That helped her start her. Youtube channel was a huge thing. So christina had selected miley cyrus breaking ball to perform the blind. Auditions and people were upset that she sang that song. Because it wasn't the kind of song. They expected her to sing but she knew. Singing wrecking ball would provide an opportunity to help demonstrate a wide vocal range and it would appeal to a secular audience because remember. She's extremely religious. She's deeply religious and so you know her. Her religion means a lot to her but she understands. She has to appeal to a secular audience. It was also a song that would be able to have the rights obtained to it. I don't know if a lot of people know this but other certain artists that don't license their music for shows like this so you might not be able to get access to a particular artist or a particular song because of the licensing so licensing is really important. Because someone like billy joel gave their entire catalog to the show glee glee. Just use any. Billy joel song that they want. But you might not be able to get right. Said fred to give you the world i wanna live in. I was. I was gonna say because they have standards. So you know. There's a lot of red tape in politics that go into reality shows when it comes to the music you can choose so you might get a book with maybe five six hundred different artists and you can't find the one that you wanna saying because their music hasn't been licensed but at this point wrecking ball was a really big song for miley cyrus. And let's not forget literally the first song she ever posted on her. Youtube channel was a miley cyrus song. So it's almost like a tip of the hat but people are still accept that she was thinking this. I don't understand humans because there's nothing really offensive about the song itself. Now they might associate the saw with a certain performance of it that molly offered up or two or two or all or the video or something but that the song in and of itself is not offensive. Now it's actually quite beautiful. Yeah there's nothing there's nothing wrong. There's nothing improper or uglier controversial about the lyrics to the song. So people are people are weird agree with you. It brings to mind like There were people offended or upset. Like when amy grant did some secular songs now. She was singing baby baby and well the like. There's she was doing like a baby baby and that's what love is four and stuff like that like like it takes a little time is probably my favorite amy grant song right but these are. These are in terms of you read. The lyrics is unaffected as they could possibly be. Yeah yeah but yeah. But she's not singing a gospel song so somehow upset about it. Okay already if you want. Yeah you cannot please everyone so you sure can't shouldn't worry about it but yeah but it's not the the reaction that christina. What god is not like uncommon necessarily. Yeah so remember. I told you she had those bouts of stagefright game. She remembers walking on the stage and thinking to herself like this is real and she had dreamed of this exact moment like being on a national stage on national. Tv show with four very influential artists right in front of her and she said she was fine. She was ok so as the music began. She focused on her performance and she sang at her heart out her and her family were hoping that at least one chair would turn around. But there's a very real possibility that no one would turn around. Okay so i'm gonna give you a breakdown. Thirteen seconds into the blind audition usher hits his button and one second later secure hits hers turning their chairs around almost simultaneously nineteen seconds into the song. Adam levine his button as well. Well tina and lorne were watching the auditions in a separate room that was set aside specifically for the families and the guests of the contestants and they freak out and they totally should have so it finally. She hits a major note and blake. Shelton is the last one that turns his chair around. And i'm gonna play you guys that blind audition it might be a little bit on the long side and the audio might not be that great. But i feel like it's super important for you guys to hear this so i'm gonna play preceded grammy's version of wrecking ball from the voice along with her choices. Okay rest stop us long. Aw what's your name. My name is christina. Grammy people come out here and they see and you never know what to expect and you turn around and you start to see how engaging and passionate and you're more comfortable than i am up there almost and that is the moment where you realize that this person could be a huge star. I really believe that. Thank you so much it's gonna get bloody and we're gonna fight but i'm going to fight harder than you know me. No one fights harder than being seasons six seasons. He hasn't had a day off. He's tired do. I look tired on four. I might have been hormonal and sleepless. But now i'm rested and i'm focused as laser and i'm going to with all the faith. Nothing will make incredible connections to someone who will understand who you are as an artist and be able to unlock the incredible potential than a woman. Listen this is about your voice. You were phenomenal. Thank you so much. It's actually. I plan on winning this entire thing with you. Get the feeling that if you go with him you won't ever get a word in edgewise at. You'll say anything. Here's what my three friends down here. Haven't figured out this isn't about me. This isn't about them. It's about you and what you want to do. I just want to help you figure out whatever that is and make you the winner of this show christina. Stena spazzy lost. My mom said breast cancer three times. And i thought she wouldn't get to see me do anything like this so i love my mom and i'm happy for her watching right now. We're here love you all. Oh my gosh you are the one. I'm going to pick adam how was that. Performance was unreal phenomenal. Whoa she absolutely slide that syria. I wish i had a that was. Yeah that was sound that was other-worldly. Amazing yeah so she can you see she. Picked adam levine after. He told her that she had the potential to be a huge star. Her voice in her stage presence and of course selena gomez supported grandma during her audition and justin bieber and artists that grammy had frequently covered on youtube supported her during the finale. So i'm going to kind of break down. What happened in the show. Just a little bit. But she finished in third place behind winner. Josh cockman runner up jake worthington christina along with the other singers had chosen atom as their coach for their team was collectively referred to as a team adam now because she that support of the youtube community her fans actually collectively were called team grammy. You know there's already that that she was already ahead when it came to that. So the moment that those cheers and you're automatically under contract really. Yeah so she couldn't publicly. Reveal the results for auditions until the show was broadcast so it would be a while before her fans would see her blind audition and whether or not she made it past. The blind auditions her audition was broadcast on february. Twenty fourth two thousand fourteen while her full audition was featured on the premiere of the show sections of her coaching. We're not shown that night. Still the folks back home. Had you know in in new jersey had a newfound hero and put marlton new jersey in the national spotlight so only a few people know that her opportunity to appear on the voice came very close to not actually happening. Because when you're on a show like this you are sequester so they put you up hotel. They take away your phone. You have no contact with the outside world thing. You're you are. It's kind of like if you watch the people vs oj simpson. It's kind of like what happened to the jurors in that show like they had you have no contact with the outside world because they don't want anything to be leaked so her father found out about that and he was like no. I'm sorry we're out we're going. And the producers of the show saw this and they ask. Why is it so important that you have contact. And we'll she's like. My mom is sick so the production team got together. Like you'll be able to have contact with your family. We have concierge. It will take care of specifically of you. Don't worry we have a great track record of taking care of contestants. And so knowing that her father felt better he felt even more better. If that's the right terminology for when she when he found out that not only were a bunch of the other contestants actually christian one of them. Biff gore was actually a pastor so he felt so much better because he knew that there are a lot of people with the same values and there was a pastor that same season. So here's how the voice broke down. Of course you made it through blind auditions. Then she went through the battle rounds for this part of the competition. She went against joshua howard on the taylor swift song. I knew you were trouble. Which they're in a boxing ring at this point like battling put which was the for semi sounds like what is actually happening on. This show that had been previously covered by season. Four runner up and her name is michelle shamal and sadly for the viewers. The battle was montage. It did reveal that christina one making it to part two of the battle rounds subaru outback to went up against a girl named sam on the one republican canning stars. Both this actually was in a ufc octagon. Both the girls get girls gave it. They're all making coach. Adam levine. Have a very tough decision. Despite blake shelton thinking that sam should win and secure being undecided. Adam pick christina to go to the live playoffs or the playoffs this part of the show christine saying jason mraz is. I won't give up dedicating to her mom. Her performance blue the coaches away and made adam levine's decision to have her move forward a very easy one when it came to the live shows She took on katy. Perry's hit dark horse. And she blew all the coaches away with her performance especially her own coach adam who said that he felt like he was watching a performance on the mtv video music awards and so that put her in the top ten with a second live show. She took a major risk by singing. A drake hit called lawn and again blew everyone away. You should see a pattern here. She just blows everyone away because you can hear how talented she is. she's incredible. He admitted how proud he was of her. And how much. She impressed him and that became her first. Hopton hit on i tunes she got into the top eight. The third live show. She took on the song how to love by lil wayne at the suggestion of her coach. Adam and despite her fears this performance would be a too much like the one that she done the week before she put everything into the song and got great reviews from the coaches and that song became her second top. Ten hit on itunes peaking at number four. Then she made it to the top five for the fourth live show. She took on the song hide and seek by imaging heat and some nights by fun. I love that song. Despite receiving praise from the coaches both songs didn't chart high on itunes and had some critics worried because she had been the favourite all season and had ended up in the bottom three and had to sing for her spot. In the finale which she got via the instant save which i guess is like the golden buzzer or the. Save the judges like sir. Think the judges save them for the finals. She took on three songs. One of them with duet with the atom her first performances can't help falling in love by the great elvis presley. Any repeat of her blind audition. Song wrecking ball by miley cyrus. Earning your praises from the judges. However her addition of can't help falling in love got around a bit of trouble with fans because of season. Thirteen american idol contestant gina irene. Who had a moment with the song two weeks earlier even though both girls hits on different versions of it still can't help falling in love charted at number three on itunes while her duet with adam the cover of goatee as song. Someone that i used to know also charted on the top tens of items so she is charging on itunes. Like the thing that you have to log in to actually pay for which is now gone by the wayside right. no it still exists. It's not as prevalent With all the streaming stuff like pandora and spotify. Yes just losing out a christina finished in third place behind joshua kaufman. tina An runner up jake. Worthington of team blake on may twenty two thousand fourteen during the competition of her coach had expressed desire to sign her to his record label to to to records or two hundred twenty two records and little wayne actually showed interest in signing her two young money entertainment ultimately. She chose to sign with island records. Island records is handled some of the some major artists throughout the world including notable acts as a mumford and sons florence. And the machine. Amy winehouse one of my favorites any lennox who became court you two. She toured with previous contestants of the voice including season five winner. Tessa an chen runner up a good. These are a lot of names. Let's say this. She toured with previous contestants of the voice which came from season five and season six and that tour started on june twenty first two thousand fourteen in san antonio texas. She was writing and recording music for her sophomore album and her third major release and the first release. It's being signed to a label. Leasing was expected to be released in july two thousand fourteen with the album following later that year. Grammy announced via facebook that filming the lyric video for the single started on july. Six two thousand fourteen and on july eleven. She announcer single. Would be called must be love on july fifteenth. Two thousand fourteen. She announced via livestream that the song would be released on the thirty first and it was produced by ella lavelle. I think i'm saying that. Right and recorded at zac recording in atlanta georgia. So let you hear that song right now with this. Tell me this way you want to be a hill sitting kim. Same as they go in the head feet bring is number eddie. Thought this was in my head must be car was okay so we're back. Where did you guys think of that. It was totally different from anything else. Totally yeah so the song with actually enthusiastically received by her fans and fellow youtubers but her fans were stunned disappointed. When the song received mixed reviews from critics and to make matters more disheartening for her fans. A lot of those reviews were negative. Like were more on the negative side. Critics complained that the song failed to make use of the full range of her incredible voice. Which you know what i agree with. That was actually if i had a critique that i would offer that song itchy an elected but It's using it's a little more emphasis on the production and and actually own a couple of it. It sounds like they were meddling with her voice a little bit putting some something else like him. You don't really need to do that with somebody that talented to me that that would be my one complaint about it was more about the music from the locals exactly like it was almost like they were pushing the music in front of her vocals. So that that'll be my that'll be my critique. She's incredible like she isn't such an incredible vocalist. She doesn't need all those tricks you know. She doesn't need those things put on her. She was incredible with just a piano. So this concern is what led to a decision by island records to not really put anything behind it so they didn't really promote it. They didn't do advertisements for they didn't push it and then unfounded rumors started to spread. All is not well between christina and island records because of unspecified issues were putting a strain on the business relationship between the two now. Let's say this you have to remember how. How much of a devout christian. She is one of the articles. I read and the reason why it's not a i'm kind of going off the cuff. Because i didn't included in here but one of the articles that i was reading about her death was that island records. She basically said. I don't wanna post semi nude or nude on anything any promotional thing any. I don't not on the cover not any magazine. And they are pushing her to do that. She they were pushing her to do like nude or semi nude photo shoots at of course her being as modest as she is and as a devout christian as she was said no and i completely get it. My mom is still alive. You aren't gonna see me naked. God i shut up. You're view weird. Your sister in law is true so in in two thousand fifteen. Grammy collaborated with dove cameron. If you guys who don't cameras. She is an incredible singer Because i am of a certain age. I actually didn't know that she was like disney person. So every show tour to be on one of the reality shows. I was working on. And she's stunningly gorgeous. She's got this great waste. She's adorable and they made a music video for what a girl is. Which was an original song from cameron. Show live and mattie so she was already a disney kid on this. At this point music video was released on grammy channel and disney youtube channel. So she's got the backing of the mouse. Now when which is all right is also promoted on their official channel and on march fourth. Two thousand fifteen. She announced that she had been dropped from island records and that she was actually working on a new album. Set to be released in late. Two thousand fifteen. Which i assume would be pretty much on her own and the new single from that album cliche was released on march sixteenth. Two thousand fifteen on april twenty-seventh. She released her second single. Stay with me. Which was a collaboration with denies which climbed to number five on the i tunes electronic chart. The song was included on the two thousand fifteen Dub step which was an album that showcased top dub songs of the year. That's a thing anymore. Dub step further movement in the end said mercifully so that's deb's have ended. I heard one song and it was like the physical embodiment of a migraine headache. I mean it's still got its place in musical. yeah progression. But it's not like now. Yeah i knew. I was getting a mike visit music. This is just know as she was. Also a contestant in the iheart radio slash macy's rising star contest and she was revealed as the winner of that contest securing her spot on the two thousand fifteen iheartradio music festival which happened in september on july. The second two thousand fifteen. She released her. Third single shrug end two thousand fifteen september of that year she was one of these sixteen international artists including paul mccartney brigand sir paul mccartney to record the charity single love song to the earth which raised climate change awareness grubby returned to the voice for season nine to promote coles fashion but not as a contestant on february twenty first. Grammy released her second. Ep titled side which consisted of four songs. Grammy said side be was like you follow. She had hopes of reaching the second bowling album by the end of the year. That was february. Two thousand sixteen sadly everything else beyond this will be released posthumously. On june tenth two thousand sixteen grammy performed with the band before you exit at the plaza live in orlando florida earlier that she poses shadow on social media as people to attend the concert. And you can actually find that online to this day a leave. It was either a snapchat or an instagram post. The performance ended at ten pm. Local time and there was a meet and greet where grammy sign autographs. Aside the venue at ten twenty four. Grammy was shot by twenty seven year. Old kevin james label after initially opening up her arms to give him a hug. Mark dog while. So here's the creepy thing. If the venue that there was a pretty small venue and there was a camera that was facing from the back of the stage to the audience. Gets and i'm assuming that was for like stage management or whatever to be able to direct lighting and stuff like that you can actually see him in the audience in the back of the in the back of the audience with his arms crossed staring at her kaga patrol london with a yeah trauma. Yeah cheese as witnesses fled the scene. He was tackled by grammy's brother and the two men scuffle broke. Free backed up against the wall and shot himself dead. Grammy was on the ground and bleeding from her head after cpr was performed in her nine one of course called and she was taken to the orlando regional medical center in critical condition with four gunshot wounds. Sadly she was pronounced dead just before eleven pm. Local time to build that she was shot once in the head and twice in the chest which not four gunshot wounds. So someone's wrong somewhere while he'd fire to kill himself or door guy that's fired yes So she was shot once in the head and twice in the chest in her death of course was declared a homicide. She was only two. Your land place department said that had travelled by taxi cab to orlando from his home in saint petersburg. Can you please tell me how far that is. Just google we're gonna since orlando to saint petersburg's for okay. That is an hour and forty two minutes by car so he took a cab for an hour and forty two minutes. A hundred and seven miles hundred seven miles while he brought two handguns to extra magazines. Full of ammunition and a large hunting knife suspect traveled to orlando apparently to commit this crime at the location. You did have to check your bags. There were no matter metal detectors at the venue. There weren't even like the metal detector wants at the venue. None of the attendees were rest. So there was no just insane. Yeah there's no level of security one witness complained that security was concerned about food and beverages bring brought into the theater but didn't catch his guns. So yeah that's that's there have so many questions here one because the guy ended up killing himself. Is there any indication of why he did. It would be my first question and my second one is. Why are you allowing in a venue like that people to not just come in but to go to a meet and greet and have access to a person with a certain level of celebrity climb and not even make them go through a metal detector. The guy the hunting knife and to gods yes. Here's afghan. one thing. He snuck in right. Yeah well to answer your question. People described him at the concert as like nervous in kinda creepy and he didn't have an arrest record in his home county. He had purchased those guns legally. of course. like you put on watch this for like a couple of days in the new drop off so it was not an issue so he bought him through legal channels. Apparently he didn't have an arrest warrant. He got the guns legally. He didn't know her personally nor did she even know about him and he had no diagnosis of any mental illness but apparently he did have a history of violence. Police never offered a motive but said that will head showed and quote unhealthy and unrealistic infatuation with the singer and tried to make himself more physically attractive for her through weight loss hair plugs and is surgery. How old was he some of this thinking. If he's getting having hair plugs and stuff that he's probably older than older guy. Though he was twenty seven at the time the orlando the orlando sentinel described his motives. As if i can't have you no one else can them not possess you by taking your life. Although he lived like a hermit his his family said that they were not aware of his plans to travel to orlando nor that he possessed any guns. They also say that they had never heard of christina. Grammy or her loyd will talk about her or watch the voice however his only friend in the world claim to have known about his obsession. The not to this extent. Lables co workers stated the same. They also said that he would be angry and defensive when questioned about his obsession before the shooting saying that he was tired and ready to ascend which is creepy. Very christina was buried at the berlin cemetery in a private ceremony on june sixteenth. The following day thousands of friends and fans attended a public memorial had in medford new jersey. I'm going to say this now. If the date of june the tenth. Sounds shockingly familiar literally. Just two days later holtz nightclub happened. You know one of the most famous examples is day. Kennedy was assassinated was the same day. Cs lewis the author passed away. Of course nobody's really watching that one. Because he was over in he was crossed on first of all and second of all the presidents had been murdered on national television. So right i think this is a similar case where it got pushed aside by there. There are certain there. There are certain instances. I can think of that happened. You know the former governor of my my fair state obviously did some stuff that got a lot of back in two thousand nine except that that same day michael jackson died and everybody just kinda quit pan attention for a little bit Fair faucet on the same day on the same day. If i remember right johnny. Nash died a few hours after eight event. Highland did. Yeah so it's just one thing kind of ends up overshadowing. The other shouldn't obviously. But yeah that's that's obviously. That was a huge. Yeah i see a huge occurrence huge happening. Yeah but both horrifically horrifically sad. Yeah yeah that's that's one of the things. The might not have heard of her passing because it would have been you know. There's that that state of confusion that happens directly after where people are likely. Let's get the story as quickly as possible. Brought in and then there's like a wait and see kind of period and then what happens in that like wait and see kind of period. Is that something. Horrific happens at pulse night. And it's just it's i don't know I i don't remember exactly how long before her death. Let's just say dombak daryl's would have been but we like. How many times does that have to happen before we would realize you know. Maybe maybe it's a good idea to just have a metal detector at the door. Just my paper walk through if apes columbine. Let's see when we go to our when we go to concerts. They do have that short like when we go to the hollywood bowl the reason why it takes like forty five minutes to get in the doors. Because they're checking every there checking your bags. You're checking your pockets. They're checking through metal detectors or for everything. And i'm as it i that i'm fine waiting on that. You know that that that is something that's gonna bother me to hold me up for half an hour or forty five extra minutes then you have something that happens like at the ariana guerande concert where i think twenty four people. I could be wrong about that. And i'm sorry if i am we're twenty. Four people were killed with a bomb just the bombing bombing. i mean. imam. Mom gets so scared of us going to concerts like that. The mike actually pretty safe in california. They do take because there's a lot of celebrities in california. You're just trying to think there. There have been so few instances where people got close enough access to celebrities to to do that. That sounds like that one. And don by both just sound like negligence. Somebody's bar extreme negligence There then you have like you want to go back to when we were really young l. d. like a you remember rebecca schaeffer. That was on my sister sam. Yeah not known door. He answered and they shot her really. Yeah well from volume the same reason like they were obsessed with her. He hired a pi to get her address and like cold the pi under the guise of trying to get her address because he had a role that he wanted her to read for and then he showed up at her house. Knocked car doors. She came down. And i think science something for him to had a brief interaction and he didn't do anything and then he left so she's living in an apartment complex and so He left came back knocked on her door. And she's like you gotta go like. I can't have you here. And he shot her in. The chest did that because she was in a movie that he thought that she was too innocent to be in. So i mean like it. There does need to be a level of privacy insecurity that needs to be around these celebrities because people watch these shows or watch these channels and think. Oh i know you because brought i. I've i've watched you for so long. It's like we're friends already was like no. The fact is you don't know that you know their onscreen persona. You don't know them right. The other thing. I wanna point out is the fact that he's getting surgery to alter his appearance this. I can't help but was a deep ongoing obsession. So when i hear all these people say they didn't know about it i again. I don't know the details. But i feel like a lot of the signs. Were there again. You don't get hair plugs on a whim for someone you don't know that does doesn't happen especially when you're twenty twenty seven years all. Yeah well in the wake of her death. Dozens of artists and other celebrities took social media. The voice tweeted that there are no words. We lost a beautiful soul with an amazing voice. Her former coach. Adam levine wrote that he and his wife were absolutely devastated and heartbroken. This is yet another senseless act of extreme violence. Blake shelton wrote. I am stunned and disgusted heartbroken. That we lost another sweet little girl longtime friend and former mate. Selena gomez was performing only a few miles away from grammy at the amway center. When she was shot the following morning she wrote that my heart is absolutely broken. I miss you. Christina gomez also tearfully dedicated her performance of hill songs transfiguration in grimm's memory at her miami concert the following night on june eleventh and then cancelled a meet and greet scheduled to take place that night citing fear and grief absolutely and you can actually find the clip of her kind of breaking down during that concert online. I'm not gonna play it here. Because like i've watched it like three times. I can't. I can't watch it anymore. It's it's so it is heartbreaking to watch. And of course i go ahead and cancelled that meeting. Great because you don't know no. You don't know many others dedicated performances to such as justin beaver. Sabrina carpenter demi lovato maroon five twenty one pilots charlie poos rachel platin- and dove cameron previously collaborated with christina expressing her grief. Over the course of a few days on twitter before you exit with whom grammy had performed with before the shooting tweet tweeted today. We lost an angel. A sister of beloved friend the family of the perpetrators of grammy's death left a handwritten note on the doorstep offering their condolences and apologies for their son's actions. With no other comment. Something has to happen. Where when something like this or columbine happens that we don't immediately attack the family. And i'll say this because there is an incredible tedtalk with dylan cleveland's mother and i think it's about fourteen or fifteen minutes and is one of the most gut wrenching things you can watch. This is like a one two three four five six gut punch. It's hard. it's hard because when that person attacks someone you're not just attacking that person you are you're bringing so many other people into the circle because you have your mother your father your sister your brother your friends people that know you that are also going to be affected by your actions and so i i do like the movement where they don't say the shooter's name anymore because don't give them any fame but also in that sense you might be protecting their family which had absolutely no idea that this was going on. The family didn't even know that they were set. They had no idea who she was much less that their son was obsessed with her. How crazy is that. Someone say something for sank czars just all. This is a lot. Yeah it's hard. It's hard to comment because again. We can have conjecture we don't know what was going on behind the closed doors. I do think that yes. It was a good gesture for the family. And i do think it's a problem when something like this happens because people are hurt. They're lashing out and they will go after the nearest target which in some cases could be the parents and siblings or wherever you may not may not have anything to do with it. You know It's hard to comment something like this because again you you don't know you and in this case it's not like he was a a seventeen year old who still lived with his parents. And how could you not know that your son was doing such and such about this guy was he was an adult. He was in his late twenties by this time and presumed with him by himself or at least not parents. So i i mean you. Don't you don't know what they're doing. You certainly don't know that they are either necessarily have any way of knowing that they're either evil or disturbed in some way or whatever causes a person to murder a person another person that don't even know implanted. I'll obviously yeah. Yeah the ceo of you to pay tribute to her by saying that. The family is heartbroken shocked to hear of graham's murder with youtube officially paying tribute on their website many yo