20 Episode results for "Ashby"

Richard Ashby on working with America's young talent

The Tennis.com Podcast

33:02 min | 8 months ago

Richard Ashby on working with America's young talent

"Support for this. Podcast COMES FROM BOOST MOBILE. Step up with boost mobile super reliable super fast network so you can post up and watch the game almost anywhere switch today and get four lines for twenty five dollars per line per month with unlimited data and four free. Samsung Galaxy phones. Perfect for the whole family. Step up with boost mobile limited time offer while supplies. Last new customers only requires port and activation from eligible carrier one device per line users using more than thirty five gigabytes of data during a billing cycle maybe deprioritize during times of Network congestion offers coverage not available everywhere see boost mobile dot com or retailer for full details right welcome listeners to the tennis. Dot Com podcast. I'm on your host. Nina panic joined in the lake known at US. Stayed National Campus Studio with my co host Irena Falconi. Hey guys. How's it going and our guest for this episode? Richard Ashby Richard. Welcome thank you. Thanks for having me. Richard Works here at the. Usda national campus. Richard tells a little brief bio about yourself then working for the for sixteen years before that coached on my own little bit privately with pros and Juniors Worked in some academies before that and so. That's my coaching background played. Junior Tennis Played College University of South Carolina. That's basically playing background played a little bit of pro after college but not that successful so onto coaching. That's relatable So what players. What age group are you targeting right now? Do you work with a specific group. Your work with the fourteen hundred girls. I'm here at the national campus. So we bring kids for camps primarily camps training weeks. We don't do a lot of traveling with kids that age. We don't have them come in. For long periods of time they usually come in for a week or two weeks of training And we work with their coaches. So we get the information back to the coaches things that we worked on here things that we see we go to tournaments have a chance to watch him play there and hopefully see them improving on things have a chance to talk to their coaches about things. We're seeing a lot easier when it's you know live where you're watching something and talking with the coach so the tournaments. It's a great option to do that. With coaches so you've been working with the USA for sixteen years. Have you been with the girls? Fourteen and under age single year no Started two thousand three so that first year and the next year we're primarily with Like junior pros so kids basically seventeen to eighteen sixteen eighteen and did that for a couple of years and then in two thousand and five started with the kids born in Nineteen ninety-one that age group so worked with an age group for few years through Two thousand eight then two thousand nine. I started with twelve and unders Jade Louise and other coach. I used to work with age group and He actually started working with kids older. So I Essentially switch places with him so from two thousand nine assorted with twelve and under and kind of grown to thirteen and then fourteen and fourteen under for last few years. Do some name. What are some players you've worked with? Amanda Anisimov was slow and Stevens. Cannon CICI Bellis Falconi yes all those players So yeah very fortunate. When we moved to we moved to Boca it was a good location. Had A lot of good players in the area so players Would come through in practice. We were able to set up a program where they're younger players. Come out and you know not every day Amanda I came out like once a week when she was younger Always worked with her. Dad was her coach. So work with her Same with Sonya and We did we actually had a pretty good set-up there where they in the morning to drilling and then the afternoons do match play and we'd be able to have kids kind of all levels. Sometimes older kids coming out in the afternoon but Amanda and Sonia. You know where kids at did that from pretty much. The beginning Sloan. I've done very little with her. I mean it's mostly been Camps or a little bit of training and Let's see who else has been out of there You know so. Yeah Irena Hell Coney for sure. Was there So when I worked with a ninety one group Sorry come and play matches Actually tell Ya arena like the first candidate when we were in key Biscayne arena. It's actually in the camp along with Alli Risk. So Mallory burdette there. You go so a bunch of kids That a moved on to play pros which is great. You know so. That's one of the things. I'm fortunate. I got to work with kids. That are the best in the country so you know a lot of them are going to be successful so I was actually mentioning that to see the other day. We were watching you practice with one of the girls. I don't I can't remember her name but she's pretty good. And I made a comment to see see I was like. Did you work with coach? Richard Like Yeah. I did and I was like. That's unbelievable when I was. I believe it was thirteen or something. I was still living in New York and I got this letter from the USDA. Do you WanNa do this. Camp Key Biscayne and sure enough it was with Alison riske Madison Bengal Whom all our top seventy have been top seventy players. It's not very common for a coach to be able to have that much of an impact on so many players that end up being professional. What is it that you have that makes that possible GonNa Know How much it is me. It's definitely good system where you know. We got a chance to see young players at an early age. I remember the first camp she came to. She was not the best. One they're You're maybe in the middle of the pack She had come to the some of the similar things she has. Now you know just the excitement. She always brings the cord and everything. So that hasn't changed. You know she's just gotten better as it's gone along so You know to be to be honest. Yeah I mean I enjoy helping the kids and you know if anything the you know. Try as much as possible for them to enjoy it as well and to try to guide them. I guess for game for the future. Now you know that's up to them to pile of things but You know most of those kids like I say we're good when they got there and you know they've gotten better they've gone long moved on to other coaches and everything so successful pretty popular name is big names that have come through the. Ashby system for all those players though that that you worked with. That didn't make it. Can you tell the difference between someone like an Anisimov an Kenan? Can you see or that early on the? Hey this kid's something different or is it more of quantity and then figuring out one or two that rice the top. There are many kids that I thought were going to be very very good. Maybe even better than those guys and they ended up not being ended up being good tennis players. But not you know making it into the pros. you know so. I've learned as gone along that. I'm not a very good predictor so We try not to pick try to just have lots of players coming through as much as possible and try to treat. Treat them all in a way that this is what you need to do to be great so they have that chance some apply while some were going to be great no matter what we did but Try to treat all the players. A came to come through with the idea that you know. Look at your game now and where do you WanNa go if you want to be a pro these things you to address and unfortunately getting to see them? When they're young twelve thirteen fourteen. They have a chance to you. Know make make those adjustments if they can. So you know the the ones that came in. Maybe I thought were really good and ended up not being so good as far as results. I think. That's just how tough the sport is. You know it's I remember the stout that somebody was saying that basically every year the top one hundred seventy six jobs available something like that. We're on the women's side so you know you have to be that good that you're going to take someone's job who's seventy in the world and that's not easy so many of these guys are good players but you know it's just not that easy to actually be a pro arena. Can you take us back to those days in that camp? Do you have any memories or things remember working on or or how you felt being part of that because you are based in New York right so you wouldn't even Florida girl yet What was that experience? Like as a as a young Irena. It was definitely. I think Not Necessarily Life Changing. But it was shocking. Because I thought I knew what I was doing on the court you know I trained with my dad for a couple of hours a day to know what fitness was and so I came in with coach. Richard and I believe was it coach Elke at the time I think we Katie's looking bear. She is Katie was Pretty much leading the campout was helping her with the camp I remember think. Jd Louis was around a little bit But I think it was mainly Katie. And either the two leaving the camp. I think that the level of competition was so high. It just was a very cool environment to be in and all the girls. Even at that age were very professional like we were there to work. It wasn't like Oh. Let's socialize and have fun it was. Let's get better which I think is one of the biggest differences in some of the camps. You see today like you know some girls. Just go out there whether it's a tennis camp whether whatever sport it is you know some people just see it as a social event and we were there to work. Even though we were very young you know that was our whole motive. There and I think coach Richard had a lot to do with it. You know one thing about that is going to bring the baskets from around the country and they all want to do really well so they all challenge each other in a good way. So everybody's you know. Basically really focused on doing their best and doing the training their best and that environment continues here so we had a camp last week where you know the kids came in and you know they enjoy working hard because that's the standard everybody. That's kind of good peer pressure and I think sometimes no some of the kids in some of their environments where they're the best kids. It's almost like they're going down to the level of somebody else because you know the. The group has a lower standard. But when you get all the best kids together they raise the standard so that definitely helps so we know Irena made the cut but how. How do you select players? How do you know which players you want in these camps and watching as it rankings results? Do you. I don't know asked our coaches their parents. Are you interviewing? Does this come together. Sure I think the main thing I look at his results so again the system we have right now. Kids go when they're say eleven twelve their instructional camps and coaches can wreck recommend them from their meaning. The coaches at work the camps might say. Okay we have these kids that did really well. And so young ones. Maybe that haven't played nationals. We haven't had a chance to see them but You know twelve's nationals. A lot of kids are playing so we a chance to see them there. And you inviting them I the camps that we have here are from basically from thirteen up For the national camps. And when I like results Kinda give you know they are okay. There have been beating these players. That and going far into tournaments. Then you see them play. And you're trying to match those things up Obviously a player. That's winning tournaments. Well it's kind of easy. They deserve to come somebody else. Who's maybe going pretty deep in the tournament but not winning them. You're looking at that and then you're looking at essentially. Do they play good tennis? Do they have good athletic skills? Do they all intangibles? You're kind of looking at with your eyes and matching that up but result is probably the like I said that's the first thing and a distinguished that from ranking because you know sometimes somebody's ranked really high because they do well in smaller tournaments but not so well national so sent you the results at you know the Easter Bowl National Claes Nationals Orange Bowl. Those types of tournaments. Those are the main results. Look at and then. You're looking to see somebody that he's not doing great but they're really fast or they have really good strokes where they play good talents. You have kids that maybe in the twelve. I remember First Time I saw clear Lou play she was ten years old and she was implanted clay courts and she's coming into the net and she comes in and you know she'll miss the volume miss the overhead. Keep coming in and you know. I remember talking to mom. After mom was shaking her head she keeps missing overheads. And Yeah but you know every time. She misses one. She's getting better not getting better and basically a year and a half later. She's winning eleven winning twelve ORANGEVILLE. So you know. And she won that tournament actually coming in and executing so again it's clear was already good but when you see a kid that plays a good sal tennis that also goes a long way and you try to bounce out results and you know up what you think. Maybe they can do. Hey everyone listening to the tennis dot Com podcast with special guest coach Richard Ashby. He's Donna about his experiences. Coaching young players and all the training camps. He's coached including one with our hosts arena Falconi. Keep listening so we see talked a little bit about the fact that you played college tennis. Did you play all four years? I did yeah back when I was playing. There is one guy my age that turned turned pro instead of going to college. I was Jonathan Canter and all the other guys like Rick Leach and guys like that that were my age ritchie round number. Those guys were all going to college. think richey may be left a little bit early but most of the guys played for years. But I wasn't anywhere near that. Leo Isn't any consideration of turning pro or you know doing that I was fortunate. I've got to play some pro tournaments from after my second year so I got to know what it was about. But the D- Wasn't thinking of turning so my question to you is when I was playing junior events back in the day before I decided to go to college. I wouldn't say that the USDA had a thinking as college being like okay. She didn't make it as pro. I guess you'll go to college. That's how it felt back in the day when you went to pro it when you went to college. It was almost like all right. I guess you failed right. You go to college even though you're going to Stanford Ucla like it did not matter. Do you feel like that. Thinking has changed in today's tennis minds at all like as a junior like when they come into your camps. Is it still? I want to go pro. I don't WanNa go to college or you know what I want to go to a d. one school and get a full ride somewhere. Well I mean. I don't know what all the kids are thinking. I think I'm the majority are thinking that they want to go to college. We certainly look at it. As you're you WANNA play a little bit higher level all the way through like when you can play out to help. Junior's you want to do that when you can play pros you want to do that and your results are going to tell you where you are and what your decision should make and going to college. It's good when you go there. You got to make sure that if you want to be a pro and you choose to go to college up to go to college without mindset. I think a lot of kids and again sometimes depends on. Who's talking to them and giving them certain message but the message we want. Give them as you want to keep getting better. If you choose to go to college you want to keep getting better now again. The challenges in college you sometimes people who have the mindset. You're saying they've gone there and they like okay. I'M NOT GONNA go pro so I'm going to coast through college. Which is fine. But if you're trying to be pro then you have to go into college with a plan for just like you have a plan for how you want to improve academically whenever plan. Probably GonNA improve as a tennis player and one of the best things that starting to happen is a lot of college. Coaches are taking players to pro tournaments while they're in school You know if somebody comes in and says they want to be a pro. There are lots of coaches out there. That know how to help you get there and they're gonNA lay out a pathway and then it's an a good plan and really it's up to the player to to follow that into fight a lot of money. You're not going to have people in the team. They're all thinking they wanna be pro so you have six then. You're in a great environment and you guys are all going to push each other. But if you're the only one then how are you gonNA fight? Maybe what the other kids feeling is. And that's where you know. The player has to be determined. And hopefully the coach and sin coaches can provide a good environment. It's definitely been proven that you can be a pro on the female side even if you go to college and for some players it's turned out to be you know the best thing. I remember talking with Nicole Gibbs a little bit and you know or she was talking to us as a group just Our PD staff her and Bradley clan. And you know basically for that for her. She wasn't ready to go pro in a lot of levels of maturity game physically all those things and she when she was at Stanford how to plan for how she going to get stronger. And you know again. We're going to mature being there that environment so college is definitely a part of the pathway. It requires a little more of a challenge than somebody who turned pro at eighteen. Because just the environment you know. I mean you work with players that are a little bit younger than the college age or the age of having to make that decision. But have you had to work with anyone where you had a discussion? Hey you know what I don't think maybe a pro tennis is the right path or you or you know what you're doing isn't going to get you there and you should consider college. We ever had to discuss something that big well. I don't think of it that we don't think of colleges like a bad choice or colleges failure. Well look at it as all the players. They want to get better. So you know. Tell the players all the time you know. Federal trying to get better. Joke is trying to get better. Serena's trying to get better. You know. helps trying to get better. They're all trying to get better where you are now. Some of them sell them. You're not good. You're not good enough right so it's not an insult it's just a fact. So what are you going to do to get better? And it's not that you're not good enough to be pro. You're you're there are lots of things that junior top to improve their and have that focus really trying to get better if you're fourteen years old and you're worried that you're not going to be a pro while you're thinking about the wrong things you need to be worried about how you're gonNA get your second serve better how you're GONNA get your transition game better. How are you gonNa move better all those things and then and the results tell you if you're fifteen years old and you're not being successful pros while it's going to mean that you need to improve Xyz to be successful when you go back out the next year when you're sixteen seventeen if you're seventeen? Eighteen and not being successful. It tells you that you're not ready to go to the pros and you need to work on those things in college. If that's the path you choose but I don't think I guess I don't look at it that way. Collars not failure. I mean it's another step in what do you find is one of the challenges When you do have these camps and you have all different ethnicities cultures. I mean obviously there same age but maturity. I'm sure varies with a lot of the the girls. What would you say is like your biggest struggle and challenge a very fortunate that most of the kids get along? There's always a few kids that are little bit either. You know they like to be the by themselves or do they. Just don't they? Don't get along with kids in general you know so. It's it's not so much the tennis it's just kind of their personality. Sometimes you have kids that are just raised in a certain way or they thinking a certain way but you know most of the most of the Times. The camp goes along. People realized they realize they're all there to get better and telling the group last week. You know you need you. Need the other person to play well for you to be successful so you need to be able to you. Want them to play. Well you want them to do well because if they do that then it helps you and you know so. I don't. I've been really fortunate. I can't say that they've been pretty personality problems in in camps we've had if we've had that it's not been that difficult to get them on a working page best friends you know so that except that. I know and you if you have one kid by themselves the whole camp and that's a problem but sometimes you have three kids are hanging out another three there hanging out you know okay. As long as they're not doing mean things each other. It works out okay. Clicks thinks they start very young. Don't they everyone? Were here today with national coach. Richard Ashby talking all things cocoa golf. What he's excited about for twenty twenty and all the players that he's helped along the way keep listening. Have you had a moment in your career? You realized you know what this is where I meant to be like. I'm so the right place for me. You know like like I've not I've made it because players we asked I like. Wouldn't you know you made it in like your coach a little bit different? But wouldn't you know you know what like this is? What I'm doing is being. It's it's it's paying off because when I started like say work. More with pros or Younger pros and I enjoy that when I started with a twelve and unders What I came to realize is that more teacher than a coach so with younger kids. There's a lot more teaching because they really don't do things well right. So they're They're expecting to learn they come into it with like if you tell them you need to improve your serve there. Yeah I know right. So they're not fighting you. They want to learn. They WANNA be taught So I think pretty much. Two thousand nine So I I used to help Julia. Bosian actually wind hold and so two thousand nine. They were playing a pro tournament and when I was having lunch with them and they asked if I enjoyed working with WHO. I'm working with now more than them and told me I enjoy it more. Not because of them but because I enjoy doing that enjoy teaching more so I guess if there's any moment maybe that sometime in two thousand nine it's not Easy to being your position in have a like your job for as long as you've had it sixteen years is very long time for anything to be honest. Is there someone that kind of helped you find this path? Did you ever have a mentor before you decided to take this coaching journey? I mean they've been very very fortunate to have a lot of coaches I worked with. Were good coaches. When I was playing and to be around good people I would say that you know what the person that got me on. This path really Benny Sims was a national coach. When I was playing like the last year I was playing playing a pro tournament. I I didn't know him and you know he. I was playing. I was practicing next to like some national players. He was working with and so he introduced myself introduced himself to me and just talked a little bit and then it was maybe six months later after. I stopped the He contacted me about going to celebrate hitting partner for Jennifer Capriati. And that really gets took me from doing. I don't know what would have been probably. I think it would have been teaching tennis teaching. Maybe at an academy or at a Tennis Club Tennis Center But that took me to wear working with you. Know obviously high level player. I was hitting partner for her for a little bit and from that. I was fortunate enough to keep working with higher level juniors or higher level pros and so I. Benny definitely providing me a great opportunity by recommending me for that job. I would say probably the coach that taught me to play Henry Proto You spent a Lotta time with me individually more time than he had to work without charging all those things that Maybe set well. Not Maybe definitely set the tone for you. Know Understanding that You try to help somebody in you. Basically go all in and you put your heart into it And so he's definitely a good example. You this kind of set the tone for example for me anyway like we also have to talk about a little bit of the Cocoa Mania being a little bit older than the players. You're working with us. Fifteen and I know she with her parents or her dad so not quite the same path as as close you work with but when you see a player that age that young exploding so majorly in the big screens you. What's your thoughts on the Cocoa Mania I always call Corey but She's amazing what she's done so it's really interesting to see. She's obviously has been very very good. Having been very successful. But socking to some of the coaches and they're saying like the huge change from French Open because people don't realize okay. She played French qualities. Lost Second Round right people. Just remember where people know her from Qualified Wimbledon beating Venus. And then that's her story from there but even an juniors. She just didn't have as much emotional control she needed. She was a great fighter but not that emotionally control and the fact that she's able to go from the French and really make a huge huge improvement in her mental skills and the commitment to controlling yourself. I mean that's amazing but it's also a good sign for young kids to know that how important that aspect is for tennis. Not just about hitting the ball or or moving. It's also how you control your mind and I think she's definitely a good role model for all ages and I would say you know. She's earned everything that she's gotten fortunate to see her when she was maybe nine years. Old Eight or nine for the first time and You know she's always worked just like she's always worked. Hard in the court always fought. The biggest different is just how much more professional. She is with her control of her emotions. Speaking of professional I just WanNa back to the fact that you were Jennifer Capriati hitting-partner anything that you can remember that you really took away from your experience with her. That kind of kept for the rest of your life that maybe you teach your own kids in in the camps and stuff. Well I mean. She's pretty amazing like her concentration to a matter when she was thirteen and thirteen fourteen like her concentration was amazing. And the fact. That if you're doing something if it's not that I guess not that challenging. She's bored but as soon as it's challenging or as soon as she's down in the game she raises her level. And you know when you're I guess looking at players you know. Those are the kind of the intent qualities the the mental side of the game. That is hard to know until you see players situations but certainly when we're in camps if we see see players that actually love the challenge you know like we start keeping score and their level goes up. Their focus goes up. Let's a good thing. You can be focused all the time but you'd rather have good match players and good practice players Kind of the way. Her mind was is definitely a good example. And a good as we look at Look at other players. You know some of the qualities that that she has Or qualities kind of look for Learned a lot about you. Know all the hype that surround you know really good player when they were young And understanding that they need to have good people around them and they need to have perspective. That you know tennis is a part of life. I think that sometimes it's a challenge when you're rewarded for all his success in tennis. And you're you're not I guess nobody reprimand you or nobody disciplines you when you do things that are not Not The right things and they let it pass. Because you're such good tennis player. I think that you know people have to keep in mind the tendencies part of life and understand that you know. It's a big part in your on the court. It's maybe the biggest part of that moment. But you need to know that there's more to life and tennis and know that you know all the players you know need to and people around the need to keep in mind. Yeah I mean I think that's a tough lesson that young prodigies are going to be learning. And hopefully someone like Cocoa Goff maneuvers her way through all of that. Let's end with one final thought from Richard Ashby. Who will be excited about twenty twenty? I mean people already excited about cocoa but Anisimov but are there any young players we should be seeing for over the horizon? There's not somebody that's That's really again. Nobody was going to say that. Naturally about You know coriander results but you know. I think the kids had did pretty well. The Juniors last year our kids that could make that switch to the to the pros Yeah I don't have one name to look for I'll say that what? I think that Corey actually did to help. And it showed the. Us Open that a lot of players that you know maybe were kind of doing okay realize hey I can go big and I can have that dream that you know. Corey should everybody. You know you might as well dream big and go all out and I think it's going to help a lot of the US players. I think Christiane and Taylor Townsend. There's successor the open. I think it has had more belief that maybe they had you know before early in the summer. So think there'd be a lot of players that are billing of that. I love the Color Corey. He did say that. He's not a good predictor. So you did put him on the spot that even though I did I did. I definitely did. So let's let's end on that. This has been the tennis dot Com podcast. And I've been pantic joined by Irena Falconi. Thanks for listening you guys and thank you so much Richard for being with us here today. Thanks for having me enjoyed it. Thank you all right from the tennis channel PODCAST network. This has been the tennis dot Com. Podcast subscribe to stay caught up or available on apple podcasts. Spotify in every major loosening up as well as tennis dot com slash podcast. You can also see the videos of our episodes on tennis channel's Youtube Page and tennis dot Com facebook page. We're your hosts Nina Pantic and Irena Falconi like to thank our team editor and audio designer and video editor Christina Cassava Producers Alexa March and Sean o'malley executive producers shelby. Kalman highline haunt Andrew Chill.

tennis tennis Richard Ashby Richard the Times Richard Ashby US Irena Falconi Tennis Played College Universi Corey USDA New York Jennifer Capriati Amanda Anisimov Samsung twenty twenty Tennis Club Tennis Center Richard Works partner Usda National Campus Studio
Episode 31  Hal Ashbys Harold and Maude (1971)

Celluloid Junkies Film Podcast

1:06:30 hr | 4 months ago

Episode 31 Hal Ashbys Harold and Maude (1971)

"My second coffee didn't come in on that. I'm a Momma's well. That's like a not a coffee. That's like a sugary iced coffee drink, yes. It also says one point five times the caffeine to Fifty Mil Cup of instant coffee. Tweeden like says that to promote the drink, but that's why you buy coffee. I know you, but like you shouldn't have that much caffeine. I'll be like tweet. Did you know that he in Craig, stay together. He and Craig stay together. Yeah Yeah, I know that like lovers now they boyfriends, but then there's like issues in their relationship, and it's really cold and I just like 'cause I break company episode, and then the next time. I together that calling each other by even. It's just accepted that there are actually a relationship now. Maybe, we should probably stop short. Hello and welcome to episode that he one of celluloid junkies. I'm the Kane and I'm joined by my co host Damien Hayes. I mean. Why don't you tell Allison is a little bit about yourself? Like? What are you doing when you aren't visiting funerals? while I like to consider myself quite the radical and I really only tackle the big issues. Like what well you know, wool injustice bigotry. But I fight the May my own personal way through this podcast. While this month we're exploring how Ashby's nineteen seventy-one comedy-drama heralded. Maude You want to sing out. Sing Out! And if you want to be free. Hey My blessing. Of the faithful departed. Of Heaven. UNAWED. Forgiveness shoulder sins. Help reveal grace you who live and reign clever. Man. She took. Try something new each day. All were given life to find it out. It doesn't last forever. Oh, it's alright. It's again harold more. Did I tell you how the eighty on Saturday. Win New experience. And the smell. Around us living thing what sense in boarders nations patriotism. Above morality. Play as well as you. I haven't. died a few times. Oh, Harold. Everyone has the right to make. Themselves kind of the will judge you too much. Do you have any friends? Maybe one would. You can't talk about sprint now. Call Mingli with sagging breasts, absolutely no. Now are you ready? Harold should women running for president of the United States. See. Absolutely is is it difficult for you to accept criticism? Oh No, do you believe in capital punishment for murder? Absolutely? Yes, wars, not all black. Why Hell World War Two? Gay was the ballpoint pen. That's common knowledge. Was Milady. Midnight. Have saw. I I don't. It's life is a school project. twenty-eight-year-old Ucla Film Student Colin Higgins rated as a twenty minute short, his master's thesis, a gay man living amid the tumult of the counterculture movement in Los Angeles. He screenplay captured the sense of change in the. The. Oppression of the fifties horace Vietnam in Kent State shootings had instilled in the younger generation and mistrust of organized authority. They turned instead to new age philosophy, environmentalism and hallucinogens that promoted self actualization. How more would celebrate this newfound social liberalism. But to ensure would not let off the hook. He framed his story around taboo. A romance between an eighteen year old boy, an seventy nine year old woman. He can sought feedback from peers who encouraged him to expanded into a feature length film. To support himself he and taken a job as a polk Lena chauffeur for an affluent family. He was hired by Mildred Lewis and became acquainted with her daughter. Susan who drove to and from school as part of his duties you want. On these trips would share ideas about the project with Susan. He recounted it to her mother. Colin handed a copy of script mildred. He thought it was good enough to be made into a studio film. She bought it to her husband film producer Edward Lewis. Would respect respected his wife's judgment after all had been mildred, who turned him onto his greatest success BOTICA's ten years earlier. Lewis sent the script to Peter Bod. Vice President of production at paramount, reposited, posited onto his boss wrote Evans. The timing couldn't have been better for a few years. Hollywood had been cashing in on the social awakening of the youth market with films like graduate and easy rider, returning a healthy profit. With its trendy politics, unconventional, subject matter, Harold and Maude at the type projects TJ were gambling on. Seemingly overnight and intrigue Hollywood fashion he begins, went from coal clean at a Hollywood screenwriter, selling Harold and Maude for one hundred thousand with another hundred thousands of follow with the film returned to profit. Despite the windfall higgins was apprehensive. He wired the paramount would sand down the provocative elements of screenplay. He had a clause written into the contract that he would be considered for director off the shooting testings, which he did at Columbia studios with seven thousand dollar budget. Despite his best efforts, the test only confirmed higgins inexperience. The studio needed to director that was win. Barred suggested Hal Ashby. Ashby began his career as assistant editor. Working with Masters like William Wyler and George, Stevens with the help of good friend Norman Jewison. He slowly moved up the ranks to editor and ninety sixty seven won an Oscar for his work on Jason's in the heat of the night. Three years later, he directed his first feature, the landlord, a satire that critiqued racial tensions in America. The film came and went through today to still considered a lost gem of the American new wave. On Nobody Ashby signed on in September, Nineteen, seventy with reservations existing on both sides. Ashby wasn't sure he could blend his talents with higgins quickey material. And, paramount worried that Ashby's chronic pot-smoking made him a risky investment. After failing to convince paramount to let Heathens Direct Ashby gave the first time rider a credit to strengthen his influence over production. Before to shoot the film in San Francisco. Mostly because it would impede studio interference. The seven weeks shoot would begin on January fourth, nine, hundred, seventy, one with a one point three million dollar budget. The production would ultimately lost thirteen weeks and coming at one point six million. Veteran stage actress. Ruth Gordon was first approached restaurant by producer Robert Evans. We knew the lively outspoken actress from her work in Rosemary's baby. The seventy four year old OSCO read the script and was elated. Nobody could play it, but May. She said it's a terrific pot. Big acting scenes deepen moving then funny, and I sing a song and dance. Talk about vitality. It leaps off the page and she's anti. Ashby preferred Edith Evans and met with an array of other actresses including Gordon for offering the part. The Harold Ashby auditioned twenty one year old bud cort an actor who'd worked with Robert Altman onto recent films after screen testing with Gordon caught beat out a number of other actors including Richard Dreyfuss. Ashby always knew how more would have a strong musical element. He originally wanted Elton. John to write the music and possibly stars Harold, but the budding musician who just finished writing Seoul's for another movie and wasn't interested. He did however suggest another artist who's folk pop style seemed to align the film's Esoteric Things twenty-three-year-old Prodigy. Cat Stevens. Stevens locked the script, but wasn't show. His music was a good fit. He met with Ashby who said a piece of film to one of Stevenson's Stevens took the bait and agreed to license his music. Throughout Filming Ashby Listen to Stephen's minor j Jake. For the Tiller inspiration. The musician wrote two original songs for the film. If you want to sing out, sing out. Don't be shy. Social was ashby of his choice that he filmed more singing. One of Stevenson's before negotiations with musician were finalized. Heralded more difficult shoot thwarted by Miller -cation mishaps, crummy weather and scheduling conflicts to add to his troubles Ruth Gordon it turned out couldn't drive, and a stunt doubles enlisted to create these scenes. Caught struggled to build a rapport with Gordon who's no nonsense. Professional demeanor made her difficult to access. He would later save his star. She's like a fifteen year old teeny bopper. She jukes around and she's got more energy than anybody I. Know including me. Corp assisted the relationship improved over time. Called flew down from London to surprise golden when she was featured on an episode of this. Is Your Life now included on this bracelet charm for your new motion picture? Herald and MAW. Your Co Star in Harold and Maude. Who all the way to Hollywood from London to be with you? Here is Bud Carter. Not long after Gordon would call court when his father passed away from Multiple Sclerosis. Suddenly, we were the characters we had played courtroom recall adding it was one of the most important friendships I've ever had. More challenging was caught working relationship with Vivian pickles. The theater trained actress who played his snobbish puritanical mother. Pickles did not care for improvisational style, and the two would not make amends until years after the film's Release A. More delays when bill locking the actor hide to play the street copy pulls moreover. And Harold Steel Poetry suffered a terrible motorcycle accident during attack, which left him with several fractured bones. The actor was bedridden for months once again, as was forced to think on the fly, he would return to location later and shoot the scenes with Thomson. Despite this the Harold and Maude set was a happy one. At the end of each day the crew would retire to a screening room and watch the films dailies in what seems a perfect teaching 'em anecdote pot. Smokers took depositions up the front. The squares made up the middle with the drinkers taking up the rear. In Higgins I draw. The story is bookended by two hangings. The first is faked by Harold as a means of tormenting his mother, but the second Israel, a final solution to herald inconsolable grief. Higgins eventually went with the more life affirming ending. Like Higgins before him Ashby. Considered killing Harold in the final scene, but eventually sided with the right up. Herald is permitted to live playing his Banjo with a skipping this step as the final credits roll. The first of the film came in at three hours. Off Viewing it produced a child's mole hill, said I remember looking at it, and thinking that my career had begun ended because it was just awful, it was long and tedious. You wanted to strangle moored if she opened up and laid out one more pontificating, he just wanted to slugger. harangued by Baden Evans, who continually attempted to undermine his control over the film Ashby? Over the edit finally at the end of Nineteen seventy-one, a series of preview screenings were held the audience reactions. Will you FARC it even received a standing ovation. On. December twentieth nineteen. seventy-one with ninety minutes trimmed off. Harold and more premiered at the genial theatre in midtown Manhattan. After the film's initial failure, belated success and elevation to cult status affair would ride. Ruth Gordon Aleta. The has struggled to express his feelings about why Harold and Maude meant so much to him. I think about a lot Gordon later reflected and I finally come to the conclusion that it's because. To get through life. You have to have somebody to tell it to. Damian Damon the dates dot. I should just say happy birthday can. Did you have a nice night last night? Off Thank you very much. Yes, I did have a NAS. Closing in quickly on forty, so you know and he is left people that milestone. You'RE GONNA have to give up the podcast of it. Really think it's appropriate, really old man's medium. Nine it snows. I'll have to find another co host. A the the full years. You've got left. I'm young Damian what you think. Tell me about you and Harold and Maude I. Believe You showed Me Harold Award for the first time. I don't think I'd ever seen it before. I met you because she loves the film very much in keeping with your sensibilities as well. So. This is a film I don't think anyone will be surprised. I know you to know that you love so much. Personally I think this is your kind of coming of age revolutionist. Film and I feel like mine is the graduate. This so many comparisons between the two movies. About there's also so many differences between the two movies, but the kind of the examples of that John, rule, that story the have defined now film fandom I think that's really true. That are definitely parallels. I love the garage. And I love Harold and Maude. But this one's a little closer to me and the graduates and. What's funny is the they almost feel British away while feeling remarkably American definitely that don't have a really kind of vivid American style. It's a weird thing to say, but bow far less of American in that Revolution Ism than something like easy rider, which is American. At this clause to these movies to dialogue least in these movies is very much. You know a Blue Cola world. The these characters living in apart from obviously more is one of those people that lives in that world. How yearns for as well? It's interesting thinking about it last night. That and I think graduates, sort of similar in the seventy s had a very distinct colloquial language. Words like groovy hip and stuff like that. This movie doesn't have any of that, and that is the graduate no. Yeah that that means that they don't become part of what the parody of that time became on a so that works ultimately to that benefit, especially in terms of reassessing them and making them a little bit Thomas. Do you remember how I came upon heralded more? Do you remember the story? None so is working in the video store and listeners just here's a little bit of information for Damian I. met in a video store. We both worked there. Daime was actually my manager and He used his position of authority to Seduce I. Started a seven year Stockholm Syndrome type relationship. I'm. Glad you think of me highly. So looking in the video store and Peter Girls came in pig. Girls is like a Adelaide film critic radio. Personality he's very much interested in the arts and culture, but anyway he came in, and of course everyone in the store I. Guess because my boss. Goods everyone was making a big deal him. Any I ended up saving him, and he looked at me and he was like. You look exactly like Harold from my favorite movie, Harold and mode and also. I. Don't know that movie I've never heard of that movie. Okay, sure so anyway. I obviously went out and rented. Now when I look back at it I actually think is a pretty cruel thing to say to a twenty one year old boy. At the time I was so I was so affected by the movie that I forgot to be insulted. I forgot my vanity. But the movie was so important to me at that age because I hadn't come out yet and The film just seemed to be this big poster that said it's okay so okay to. And nominee films at that time were propagating that message. Not many films from the noughties will like endorsements of nonconformity. In fact, they were all post is four conformity. There will like Frat. Boy Comedies and pirates and Hobart's I mean either films meant nothing and appeal fantasy, or if they did means something they will focusing on family values and conventional attitudes to life, so it had a huge huge effect on me, Howard and mode. It's the kind of movie that for every person you show it to another person's just. Just going to be so put off by it. Will we put off by the subject matter that the coloring language? So when you love a movie that so many other people love love that little bit more I think, also the it's true the that will making these kinds of movies in the late sixties very light season throughout the seventies making these movies, the were personal bat, universal, anti, almost anti-government, differently antiwar and the ones that got ride US still relevant to people today who are going through certain things. Certainly looking at this movie in this current climate with everything happening with black lives matter in the motor of George Floyd, it takes on another meaning you can look back at certain examples of cinema and say even though this movie is fifty years old. It is still as relevant today as it was then. Yeah, absolutely. I love him so much. At only wildlife I get to see any more. Free as a bird. To break into pet shops to liberate the CANARIES. But I decided that was an I. Do way its time. A full. overflowing. How my how the world still. Daily. And this movie came out at a time when we were certainly America. But all around the world, these kinds of issues were being discussed, so this was nine, hundred seventy, one in nineteen, sixty eight Martin Luther King had been assassinated. Then we had the offensive. The Washington DC March had happened in sixty nine, so that was half a million protestors then can strike shootings happened in nineteen seventy the gay. Liberation Front was founded around this time. The women's movement was gaining a lot of traction. The movie socially aware of the world at the time that was being made I think in its way all of Hal Ashby's seventies. Movies are response to all of those things I mean. The film is very very anti-war anti-establishment. Anti Authoritarianism Anti Patriotism Anti Captivity. And, it's kind of critical of anyone who is too neatly integrated into the system, or WHO's to conventional heralds, mom uncle for the caught the psychiatrist, the priests, they pretty much are the characters most of them uniforms I mean arguably even his mom is in some kind of uniform in every shot. It almost seems to be saying that these people's adherence to social norm strip them of their humanity and make them these. Robotic. Sounding people while they also become caricatures of those particular people, those those archetypes, especially I think the military uncle, but really those characters are just four herald mode to bounce off into the message to bounce off as well. You say it's a comedy, and it is a fast, and there's definitely satirical elements to it, but the relationship between Harold and Maude fills very earnest. I think the film is a faucet all. I think that those smaller characters who represent just these blown out of proportion tops are presented as a for US purely to get the message of the main characters gross. What happens between Harold Mortis, not comedy, and not Facet is, it is romance, and it is life in it is just I mean that's the dramatic element of this story. And that's why would so well. It is whited if this was Puglia, foss. It would not be a film. We remember today. Is a bit of a teacher student dynamic creeping into their relationship. Yeah definitely, but I think that's the I. think that's not just the case in this movie. I think that's the case in any relationship, probably particularly relationships between people who, where there is a difference I, think even relationships where people of the same age. There is a teacher student relationship teacher student. Dynamic people don't necessarily share the same ideologies that aren't necessarily share the same interests, so you can learn from anybody. It just happens the to tell this story about life and death. You know to tell by needs to tell it from a perspective of WHO's older, and the perspective of somebody has Janka. Force speaks to people who were feeling a lotta. These feelings were the youth in America. At the time they were the people that were getting conscripted to go to war. who feeling hopelessness about their future? So that with a generation film, the greatest generation they had to make their own mark, but I had these expectations against them that would follow in that the parents and grandparents footsteps. Heroes of world will two and yet that was thrust into a wall, the not going to be heroes from I mean they will put in. A position would never going to come out of it looking good? I mean there's so much to talk about with me. Talk about the historical context of Harold Mold and obviously that it was made during the Vietnam War and in the middle of America's involvement in the Vietnam. War is obviously one of those important factors, the sexual revolution as well Luke obviously the same way. Harold finds this intense interest, the bloodletting of another human being when his mother decides to send him into the military is again. That's. That's this example of you know somebody who's young who oppose the wall. WHO's saying well? Is this supposed to feel about? He's being ridiculous so that he doesn't have to go and serve in the military conscription said was used as a tool this time as it had been several times before we get young men into the military, and for those who opposed to the war, or who didn't wish to serve. This was a massive psychological. That I mean. Harold has to use these outlandish tactics so that his uncle decides barrels, not going to be right to sent to put into the military. They will. Use the pain. Hand to hand conscious sprang someone. I think. We are about to slit his throat. Screwed out. Of You kill is ears. NOSE SCALP PRIVATES barreled. Believe that Harold Suicides in this movie, but if it came to the actions, radical protesters throughout the sixties and Seventies. In the nineteen sixties would non self immolations or examples of people setting themselves on fire half in the United, states, by objectives to American involvement in the Vietnam Wall so that Harold Harold Sofa Lake St Munson in had an inevitable is not explicitly portrayed as an objection to the war. However, it is portrayed in the film as an objection to his mother's persisted that he accept these social oems and a ties to these political objections that were happening at the time oh whether you like. Like it or not, when you see that image of Howard's at lie, you think of the famous image of the monk, even if you only think of it unconsciously, I mean these things are happening all around the world at the time now happening in Vietnam especially but the threat to bit, they've happened throughout history in America that were happening and just about American involvement in the war, solving Malaysians have been happening since the nineteen thirties in modern political history, and that's still happening tonight. I. was going to ask you because I. Think your answer is the same as mine. What is your favorite moment or scene or sequence in the film? I don't know if mine is the same as yours, my favorite. In the movie I have two of them. The first one is when Harold also what she was forty four when she was politically active and she says Oh. Thank Issue Liberty Rights Justice. Kings died kingdoms fall. I don't regret the kingdom. Sense Borders and nations patriotism. But I miss the king. And, my other favorite quote at it's much deeper than just the quote is when a herald watching the sunset over the ocean, and seagull flies across, and she says. Approaching Devil's island that he could see the most glorious birds many years later in Britain. He realized they had only been born. Neither of those are what I would've guessed just quickly on that last one. How do you read the scene at that quote that comes off? The Herald has just seen the imprint on the inside of her wrist. She says he's seen her tattooed from the Nazi concentration camps. That's right and I think dreyfus was persecuted. Yeah, he was a Jewish French military officer who was falsely convicted of treason in eighteen, ninety four so well before the wall, and he was sentenced to life imprisonment at Devil's island, which at its worst, a death rate of seventy five percent June to the notoriously harsh treatment of detainees. But in nineteen seats he was exonerated, and he was reinstated to the French army so obviously just prior to relate in that story, and saying that I will always be glorious Birds Herald seen that Tattoo and see goes. Actually universal symbol of freedom. So. More tells. This story is a way to kind of Harold minded as about what he has. You're saying the though in the movie. You don't see more of. that. Harold has seen her tattoo, but she she says this story is a way to kind of his monitors. Ease and say that she is essentially free from that pain of the past that she remained free throughout you watch the film and you don't know who Dreyfuss is, and you know he's history and you don't know that. Her referencing him is a way of highlighting the perennial nature of discrimination, and whether or not it happened in the forties in a concentration camp, or you know a hundred or a thousand years before that in some other place against some other race or ethnicity. That it's just something that perennially exists in the world. The same to me I. Think is beautiful because we don't know him more history. Really we only get kind of snatches of a, but obviously once we see that Tattoo. We know that she has seen and experienced horace. And the way that it, Shaw and you see the birds and hear them you hear that story and you think they really are beautiful. And of course we all see seagulls. Every day we will pass them. We don't notice them. We don't think of them especially when they are a symbol of freedom, especially when they're flying across the sunset like that so free and so. I guess is carefree when the person viewing that is in a situation in which the locked up oppressed, and we often use our baggage to excuse the fact that we miss simple beautiful things in the world. So I guess for a woman of her age, and with her experienced to sit there and just recognize them, and then we get a moment with them in the film is just incredibly touching that there's this person that. That doesn't miss any of these little tiny miracles happen every day in nature I think that's one example of what you're going to probably say. Is your favorite scene? Yeah, so my favorite scene is when they're discussing what they would like to change into once they die, and she says she like to change into a sunflower because they're tolan simple like you Damian very, Tolan simple Who did you marry keys obsessed with some? Is is very simple. But powerful says that he'd like to come back as daisy, and we get this shot of hundreds of days, and she asks why he wants to come back as a daisy, and he says because there are all alike, and she points out that often not. Look Shame Some small some of Fateh. Some grow to the left some to the right. Even lost some. Kinds of observable differences. You see Harold. I feel much of the wool. Sorrow comes from people who this. and. Allow themselves to be traded as the. Then we get a shot of a section of Holy Cross cemetery. And it looks like a military graveyard. It looks like something like Arlington Cemetery. And suddenly the daisies are tombstones. That is really powerful, because if we get a photograph of Harlington Cemetery, we see all of these graves, and they all look alike did wall looks like a statistic really like visual statistic that many people died at wall. How awful, but you're really think on the surface of that thought. All lots of people died for this. gingy today, but coming off of that same. Tell me when we realized that. Yeah, you know we all love. People may be roughly the same hot and have roughly the same ideas, but we're all incredibly different and nuanced individuals, and then you apply that to a photograph of a cemetery, and you realize how many individuals with different wants passions, and ideas and thoughts have kind of been boxed into the statistic. Putting those two thoughts together makes it incredibly sad to look that graveyard. I mean that is the single most striking. The movie is I. Mean That's like psycho. Drain tolerable kind of stuff. Is I mean that is just a soup to by somebody who was pretty early in his film career, but he was well advanced in his editing career, so he was able moved to I guess his knowledge of editing, Allenby at that time into making this shot. That was so meaningful. It is the best in the thing. I. Just WanNA mention quickly the music of Cat Stevens because it's such an essential part of Harold more. This is another thing that's reminiscent to me of graduate and particularly the use of Salmon. Garfunkel music in that film. Both of them so suited not only to the visuals of the movie and apparently. Hell XP edited a lot of power the more to the idea that he would be using. Cat Stevens music and Cat Stevens, almost pulled out of the project because he didn't have time to recall the songs and two, they renegotiated, and said he could use some of the existing songs and Cat Stevens would record a couple of new ones full him. But also to the narrative into the political statements, the bug films Mike Cat Stevens himself was self described APP cost in his younger years, he was the artistic kid who was beaten up at school, and in nineteen, sixty nine, he became sick with Turkey losses, and after spending time in hospital, when at home recuperating for about a year he changed his outlook on life, and he got out of his original record deal began creating this kind of existential folk music that he eventually became knowing full, and which is featured on the film soundtrack. Stevens lyrical content ties in nicely with the philosophy of the at. In a way, Stevens had his own followers who will them entrenched in both political opposition to the Vietnam War in the sexual revolution? No sorry no opposition to the sexual revolution. Obviously. A great with the sexual revolution, the main thing to the movie is differently. If you WANNA, say out seeing out and that film has sorry. That song has such a simple elegant message of being different, which is really beautiful. I love that song. It almost plays like A. ABC playschool Type Song in how simple it is! I mean methodically at has an underlying joy and bittersweet quality to it, and like each verse has an affirmation because there's a million things to be, there's a billion ways to go panda, just as you know, there are, and it's just a really kind of elegant understated way of sign. What is about Jeremy? How how many of these suicides have you performed? An accurate number would be difficult to gauge. Just give me a rough estimate reference. I'd say. Fifteen. Surfaced where they all done for your mother's benefit now. I would not say benefit. What do you think is wrong with Harold I? Think he's kind of the epitome of Lavar anxieties about the world. And I think the while he is obsessed with death at a lot of critics made I complained about how he was so obsessed with death. I think he's also reverend. He goes to these funerals and he pays his condolences and he feels sorry for those at the funerals that he attends. And while some people will say, he's as discussing joining for the love and acceptance of his mother, she's so entirely self involved, and while the great scenes when she is answering his dating application and my favorite question in that is when the question is asked about whether he enjoyed his childhood. Did you enjoy life when you were a child oh? Yes, you were a wonderful day. The admiral at she says an entirely about her own experiences and she doesn't see him. then. We get that scene where he breaks down crying more. Those fight suicides because he is trying to recreate a moment, the elicited a real reaction from his mother, or does he want her to have different reaction because he almost certainly doesn't want her to continue to be different, all worst to how icon take any more of this. Herald is kind of this representation of that unseen generation. That idea that people had to be as successful as that parents were in the general that grandparents were postwar generation, the greatest generation, and finally with moored his sing, and he is is a simple person when simple names as most people are. And he doesn't see her just physically, although she does because guys Peterson, he met the funerals. I both attend through the crowd and then she's I think it's a I think it's told visually because he's also saying emotionally for the first time probably. And then obviously she teaches him to embrace life to leave his. He must live. It, however, that must be to be different to not be one of the crowd, because even in the crowd is such notice, notable differences well herald is very passive in his moments with moored. It's mostly moored. That's talking. That's showing that's. Their trips together are more inspirations. Let's go do this. Let's hang out here. When Harold finally opens up? In that saying that you described about him, telling more about the first time that he died, which was at school. In the laboratory he was playing around with chemicals. There was an explosion. He was presumed dead. Actually he just walked out with a couple of scratches and bruises and went up to bed and then watches his mum. Get told by the two cops who shop at the door later that evening that he's been killed and he. Her putting a hand to her forehead, and passing out in their arms, and then he decided in that moment that he preferred dead. I understand. A lot of people enjoy being dead. But then not dead really. It just backing away from life. Preach take. Play as well as you can. Call. Go. GimMe Gimme. GimMe. The gimme the hy-vee you live. You got nothing to talk about and the lack of them. I think Herald is so horrified by his mother's reaction, because it is fake, and it is socially expected of her to have a reaction like that I think in that moment he understands that the oppression of oneself into an. Murder COM OF BEHAVIOR MAKES SPONSORS INAUTHENTIC. It changes our behavior turns us into robots. It robs us of our ability to respond authentically, and we become obsessed with presentation. We've become slaves to the opinions of others and lose our ability to express ourselves without commissions, and I think the weld and the people in the world just same hopelessly for the Harold in that moment. He doesn't WANNA. Leave anymore and so the mock suicides kind of flirtations with an escape hatch. Opportunities his mother to correct him stake which she can't. She doesn't know how because she's to affected. She's too ingrained. She's never given that much thought a lot of people don't. A lot of people behave as expected and never actually challenged themselves and. Just the other questions that his mother answers that question and She answered them not from his perspective at all. It's just a very clear demonstration that she doesn't understand him. And in general, the great egg population, and how they I misunderstood the things that they believe in difference than their parents, grandparents believed in. Yeah, and there's the same Eliane when they're having dinner. I, don't know if it's the harold birthday or not I can't remember. But she talks about his father, and that his father was like found consuming naked down the sin, and that made me think. Maybe it was really hard for Harold to lose his dad, because sounds like his dad had the same sense of theatrics in the absurd, and maybe lived unconventionally, and then of course the father. We don't even know if he died what happened to him, but presumably he's gone and. Stuck with this awful shrew of a mother who just is only concerned with appearances. Is that the Dennison? Siasi something's wrong with Harold and he says my throat. Good! TRIED TO HANG HIMSELF And she likes you beats. Like manically these beats. Rod Up to bed. That'll buy you feel better. Yes Of your issues with life and living and All of my expectations, sharing picking up on vices. Life literature best not to be tomorrow. You teach yourself out too much life. They. Apply that to life. Do fully. Should we talk a little bit about race? Gordon and more I think he's kind of the person who we all aspire to be. Yeah, wouldn't it be lovely to be moored? It would be lovely to be more. You could argue that Moore is almost too good to be true. She's like an attractive idea more than she is a human being. But I think she's made into a human being by Ruth. Gordon Because Ruth Gordon is such a naturalistic actress? Ruth Gordon is the kind of actress where I imagine sometimes people would get confused in a scene about whether or not. She's in character or she's just talking to them. She throws away lines. She's his own I'll. She did the same thing in Rosemary's baby I know what you mean as an actress. But as you said before apparently, she was difficult to penetrate personally onset. And I think she said the tip to be a good actor. Is Show fucking lawns? And she said that tobacco, and then she walked away, which from someone who's wanted Oscar in the last three years to a twenty year old. That is going to be pretty scary. Absolutely, but I really like I liked reading about the evolution of their friendship, and ultimately they became really difference to one another. Yeah it. Said Bay to read that they were during filming, because they are such a natural couple screen, and there is so much charisma between them. Even though the Aso different mortars almost flighty throughout the entire film, she does have these special moments where she is. Brought back to reality by Harold because a harold is if anything. A little more grounded in reality, the more yeah, Oh, I would say so definitely. I mean we're talking about a woman who just gets into whatever call happens to be the get home. There's thought to the idea that Moore is based on some of the principles of the Osi it's. A belief system it's a movement found by a Russian German writer and spiritualist named Helena Blood Taskey. It's actually a religion, so it's almost like a cult. There's a lot of belief systems. They have that you could say that correlates with more, but I don't think that you need to apply any kind of particular philosophical teaching to more I think she's a blend of a lot of different ideas that we've heard over many years over the last hundred years. One thing I really admire about more that she loves people, and she presumes that all of these strangers meet her well, and it makes some of the interaction so charming, particularly the interaction with the COP. When I don't believe in them. Driveway out to forty five minutes. Wouldn't you say how we will hoping to stop so, but you see it's rather hard to find a truck. Truck. took. Yes. I have. Well it's not my really, but we would like to get it into soil as soon as possible. Straight ladies. The off Nice Shattuck. I love. How long have you been driving? And she says Oh forty five minutes, and I'm pretty sure he means. Forty five years. Yeah I love when she says to him. Don't be officious yourself with. One of my favorite things about that scene is the she has said in the movie she acts as the nothing belongs to anybody. She's not behold into possessions, and she describes her own things as incidental integral, and yet she's caring enough that when she pulled over by the police officer and asked to leave the car, and he gets into the cod, cod of look around, she judges. Harold to retrieve Abe shoveled before they steal the police officers motor by. So that she can return because it's been loaned to her, so it's important in that respect. The that particular possession gets back to where it was possess. She doesn't have the same consideration for these people's 'cause. She stealing well no and I. Guess You could make the argument that she cares about the people that she knows. Yeah, there's lots of hypocrisies to Maud Bah than she goes to the funerals of people that she doesn't know. No, and she goes to strangers funerals for the reverse reason that Harold Harold goes to explore and understand death and she goes to honor. And celebrate life. And the cycle of life, so they're going invest reasons the second funeral that both at the one that's in Dole's where she moves into the behind him. It's really great how they set up as you say. As she said to me privately I set up the rest of the movie. She said so I heard that he was eighty and she says. To Kelly. Alternately what happens in the movie? On, the surface more would be the last person in the world to commit suicide. How do you interpret that decision? I think probably in mood off time she's seen in. This goes without saying. The film has no said this at all, but she's seen people past that age of it and stop that. Mental decline and Moore doesn't want to be a burden to anybody. She doesn't want to be a boot to assist him and she doesn't want to be a part of life if she's not living and I think that said pretty explicitly throughout the movie there. She doesn't want to be a part of life if she's not living. Her goal is not just to buy time until she passes away. Her goal is to live when she's alive and she decides when that time is over when she still volatile enough, and she has the mental faculty to make that decision. And I think she She also regardless of how this makes Herald field immediately and in the moment. Passing away and giving up a relationship with Harold that would make happy for a few more years and Mike Carol happy for a few more years, but which would ultimately lead to that sank. kind of feeling of loss for Harold is. A little bit Rochester in some ways because she's gifting Harold her knowledge, her ideas philosophy and she's allowing Herald today. Go as she said in her final lawn. Believe is to. Go Love Civil. Beautiful parting gift? It is trouble. Trouble me three. I have seen your things and this too much too much for me. The marketing for this movie I thought was really terrible. Hal Ashby had problem with the marketing as well. The particularly the trailer at the movie posters say the trailer itself showed a series of unconnected scenes and cut them in a very bizarre way, which didn't really tell any of the philosophy of the film, which is the most important thing that you take away from this. Some of the posters would really quite lacklustre. One of them was old text and the movie toddle Ruth. Gordon at `Bout Courts Names Lodge, pink and purple type, and the rest of the credits were in black, and the whole thing was on a white background, so there was not im- injury at all, which is very unremarkable, and a few others kind of really role with the sexual revolution imagery with flowery taught faces of Rainbow Colors. And while I think this film is is difficult to mark. Which is unfortunate? I suppose that's the reason. The marketing reason that film didn't find the audience and the audience that it did find at the time was the raw von much well. Studios don't make these kinds of movies that don't make movies. This risky I think paramount was scared of the Phil, but won't Baffles me. Most of all is the lack of critical praise, the received when. When it was released I, mean was this feeling really too radical at these reviews really believe that it was juvenile in its huma at didn't have anything else to say over critics just simply seek it. What be considered to be message movies this time, and probably being about three or four years worth of them at this talk. I wonder if that had something to do with possibly. But I mean Howard and Moore doesn't Hammer. Blow its message. No, it doesn't I feel films that a gentle do tend to be the ones that file to make waves at the time of release, because the varying amongst so many louder Louise and Herald certainly nineteen seventy-one in among some laughs Levi's. Luckily when they find the right audience, they do manage to get reassessed off softeners. I guess part of this is due to the further success of the creative team, because how the more definitely have that in its favor Hal Ashby went onto my as we've said some classes throughout the rest of the decade. But is also because these films. Will they become a snapshot of a period? Of Shen that may have since passed and Harold able was also that so after the Vietnam War ended with the fall of nineteen, seventy five, and some time had passed since America's involvement. We begin to get the that was inspired by that time in history, and we began to become more accepting of the that was made during that time in history. I, feel like it's a little more comfortable once. There's some distance between the subject matter and the reality. I would. Be Remiss in my duty. If I did not tell you. That the idea. Into covers. The fact of your firm young. Body. Co, mingling. With the. With the Flash, Sagging. Breasts and. Flabby! But. Makes me want. To vomit. Herald mode opened in theaters on December twentieth, Nineteen seventy-one and turned a profit in nineteen ninety-three. Action telling you just about everything on. How received? It's actually very difficult to find accurate box office. Dr Harold Moore Denies Soon. That's because it just wasn't very successful. At the time, it didn't break the top ten at the box office in the United States in any single week during its release in La during the first week of release, it barely made a dent with eight thousand five hundred dollars, piling in comparison to the two hundred and ten thousand dollars, that Disney's later lady and the tramp brought in. Out of the ninety seven cinema releases in nineteen, seventy, one gross at least one million dollars, it ranked in position but ninety-one. At least it wasn't dead lost on a production budget of about one point two million dollars. It made back one point one million dollars domestically the highest grossing film The was Norman Jewison adaptation of fiddler on the roof, thirty four million dollars. And Obviously Hal Ashby Norman Jewison had some history. I guess, what are the? Saving graces for Harold. Ordinance participants at least financially was a cost too much primarily, because the majority of the individuals involved were unproven assets, only Ruth Gordon had real notoriety as the winner of the Academy Award for best supporting actress in nineteen, sixty eight for Rosemary's baby. Hal. Ashby's reputation wouldn't count attraction for a few more years. And it wasn't thanks to Harold and Maude, which was almost unanimously ridiculed by critics. Rotary but of the Chicago Sun Times famously panned the film and seems to have never revisited it during his living is. Harold his death more life and I managed to make the same similar. The Life Hollywood the extra. Boorda the visual style makes everyone look fresh from the Wax Museum. All the movie lacks is dialed gardenias, lilies and roses, if and lobby filling place employing sweet smell nothing multiple today. Vincent Canby of the Neil Tom's may have hated even more. If the idea of the movie strike. She was immensely comment. You might want to miss. lsp's herald the old. Pretends to be thoroughly favorable off, but it's quite as much about death as it appears to be, but court Ruth Gordon mismatched visually mystical baby, facing teenage build Luke grotesque alongside Miss, Gordon's tiny reason frame. As performance I both so aggressive, so creepy offering obviously made for each other appoint. The movie refuses to recognize with a twist ending the betrays its life affirming pretensions. Variety, who refused to that reviews in the field task chain? The fifty years later wrote herald a more has all the fun and Gaiety of burning over the Edge Director Hal Ashby. Second feature is marked by a few good gags, but marred by preponderance of sophomore over and mocking him. All three of these reviews had major problems with the simulated suicides performed by Harold, but not one of them recognized that those actions representative earning look characters behalf. I looked at it on a surface level, not willing to explore the mood dictate. Taking the bleak human meal is sight gags. At least the New York Times unlike Ebert revisited the movie in Nineteen seventy four I wrote an article about the film's reception in Minneapolis. Where had played at a single data for one hundred fourteen consecutive weeks and gross half a million dollars junior, the audiences it was pulling. It was returning to New York the singular success with a headline on the ad copy that read. What do they know in the Mid West that we don't know in New York. The rod that article algae homicides related a story told to him by thirty seven year old friend, the time quite herald. The mold was the bottom half of a double bill. We're going to see some classic. We had been looking forward to, but the mode came on I when it was over, we left the theatre without staying for the film. We had come to see Harold. A mold was a jam, deliciously funny stretching limits of acceptance. We couldn't let anything else. Torture spoiler and quite. I guess you ought got or you didn't. Against the grain both Bud Cool recode Gordon. When nominated in supporting acting categories of the comedy or musical films at the Golden Globes, however not the to come the award and the film God no other notable recognition. Of course, the film has developed a cult. Following slows rough first few years. It is now regarded as a classic having been reassessed over the years. Maybe Judah. Ashby later success in nineteen, ninety seven, that was inducted in the Library of Congress National Film. Registry and has appeared on. Lists including forty Fifth Best Comedy Sixty Ninth Best Romance Film and later the Ninth Best Romantic comedy and the one thousand nine, th most inspiring movie. Her right well, let's do the quiz and I have made my questions quite hard because last time. You were merciless in the questions. You asked me okay one of your questions. What did an actress in a TV movie version of the movie where podcasting about say about her production? That is cool. I'll pick the hard questions then I'll go through this. What did HAL Ashby eat for breakfast on the Thursday? He didn't he skipped it and just had a Toke God damn. After which seen the entire crew stop to applaud the same way however breaks down with more. That's right. That was a guess as good guess, and it turned out that the cinematographer had actually run out of film and they had to shoot again do. Yeah. True or false? When the announcement was made of the TV series moored, which ultimately stopped be Autho. Fans of the movie loved. The show is producers to instead cossery golden in the lead role tree. Look I. Made that up. I thought that was gonna be an easy one. I thought it was possible. It was the right time. Harold and Maude was referenced in the Golden. Girls named the reference. It's in the last season launch. Has You know she's put on this moonlight? Madness potty because full moon is the most romantic night of the you ever for some reason, all the men are really randy and everyone there hitting on everybody except blanche in that episode and Sophia says I haven't been hit on like this since I stopped hanging out at the midnight shelf, Harold and Maude. A good quote. Column Higgins had two more films planned in the Harrow the mode universe. What would I? I have no idea. So what was called Harold Story and that was it was going to stop cordon. Be about just a continuation of our mold so often mode staff, and the other gold, grover and more, which was going to be a Prequel, and that was going to have more learning how to still 'cause from Grover Muldoon the character who Richard Pryor portrayed in Higgins nineteen seventy six film silver streak. Oh that's cool. I haven't seen silvis straight. No neither. What image was removed from? Harold and Maude OP. The MPA threatened to slap the film with an R rating. I assume it would have been a during this scene which was cut down quite a bit. There was a scene of them kissing naked in bed, and that was removed paramount executives before the film went to the MPAA run, but the MPAA, actually it was in the scene that you love about with the seagulls there in the mudflats, and there was a sign in that that was bearing the words, Fuck War and The film hadn't used any profanity, so they had to remove a true or false. Another one Louis Fifty fifty, okay. Vivian pickles made seventeen films. Harold. The mold was the only one made in America trade, yes. Yes. So I think we both got one. So do you have any other ones? Guess how many any years after Harold a more tight for another of risk goldens films to be released into cinema allied ny five. Five Years Oh my God. Ah, so the next film she had released into cinema, was the big boss in Nineteen, seventy six, which was a fast just lampooning disaster films in which Saint Producer Charles beam over. He'll make a cameo in heroin more. not entirely sure on gonNA guess the scene. Maybe he's one of the people playing an instrument when the band will stay on the street. No, he sells the heads to Harold in outdoor car records sing. And Hal Ashby. How Ashby scene is where they're. At the carnival playing that gun game, and he standing between them, you know who I thought that was. Donald Sutherland really. Looked so much like Donald Sutherland in a weakened fake facial hair, yeah! Hey yes. Yeah. He's a major hippie. The parade that walks pasta funeral. That was how Ashby Hell Ashby decision because it happened him at his father's funeral, they all solemnly walked out of this church, and there was this marching band walking past, and he just thought it was really funny, so he put it in the movie. Okay so final thoughts I I NEU- that Harold and Maude has is a flawed film. I think it was made by very young people. It's very oh day Shis. There may be some scenes that go a little too far or too absurd, but some movies are so. Touching that their flaws are outshone by how tenderly they reflect this object. Even though intellectually I know it's probably not a five-star movie. It would just be disingenuous of me to go any lawless. Oh, that's my rating. Five stars. Yeah, look I I. See where you're coming from an annuity. We're GONNA give it five stars because it is a film that very closely to you. I'm giving it four and a half. Obviously I love and more I. Don't connect with it quite as much as you do. And I do connect with the graduate more and I just think me personally the graduate. Graduate is a better example of these themes in this time, or at least an example that kind of speaks to me. A little bit closer to my sensibilities are well undying tonight. What next film is so? Why don't you sign US off again? Well, thank you everybody for joining us again. For these latest episode of celluloid Junkies, we'll be back soon very soon. With a deep dive into one of the most horrific true stories ever committed to fill. Toby nineteen, seventy, four, classic, the Texas chainsaw massacre. ooh! That is very exciting. So we're going to be doing a second, toby movie, I know who would have thought that of all of the directors. We profiled on this podcast. Toby Hookah would get to. You take that. You just wanted to rewatch. I've just had a gaining. A Hora and to be honest the two finalists to. The Texas chainsaw massacre and was craven's the hills. Have Eyes interesting I'll I'm glad you? Texas are decided takes his chainsaw massacre just because it is more on conic and I, think you would. Probably in the hills have eyes. She would talk a little about Texas chainsaw massacre. Anyway I would rather have. If we ever get around to have odds showed have already done it episode on Texas chainsaw already. We'll check you then. See next month. Bring. Off to the man. For the, Sun. All the woman who made their. Own, Way, wild.

Harold Harold Hal Ashby Ruth Gordon Maude I. United States Dr Harold Moore Harold Ashby America Colin Higgins harold The Herald Hollywood Cat Stevens Harold I Rosemary Ashby Howard Harold Steel Poetry Norman Jewison
#188: Hollywood Endings, Pt. 1 - Shampoo

The Next Picture Show

40:27 min | 1 year ago

#188: Hollywood Endings, Pt. 1 - Shampoo

"Hello next picture show listeners. Here's a friendly reminder that if you enjoy the next picture show you'll really enjoy getting more next your show by subscribing to our patriotic for the low monthly nick price of three dollars which gets you weekly newsletter or five dollars which gets you are bonus episodes recent bonus episodes have included fun discussions of midsummer and hodson shaw shaw an upcoming episodes include some talk about succession jesus christ. You are patriotic. Please visit patriotic dot com slash next picture show <music> keep the line between the past leads a someone out of the past and enter and take fish. I never lived through with us. Welcome to the next picture show a movie of the week podcast about it to a classic film and how it shaped our thoughts on research release. I'm keith phipps here with scott tobias janikowski. We've lost saw tauscher. Robertson driving off into the hollywood hills possibly headed toward acapulco but we hope to see you again. Some day this week traveling back in time to the los angeles or the late nineteen sixties took place via films that look back on the era with a mix of wistfulness and anger sorry. I didn't like that read generally kind to another pass. Sorry are you only get one shot. That doesn't seem right. We flubbed things and redo them all the time and our listeners never know you and dan. The snakes are really good at editing out our mistakes well. That's true but this week. I feel like we should honor. The spirit of both films were discussing because each in their own way are about how mistakes can't be undone in the past can't be rewritten so if and this is just a wild hypothetical scott were to flow line and start swearing in frustration. It's going to be in the episode announcing those ever happened. I'm just is putting out there as a hypothetic correct like i said it wouldn't be true to either of these films to reedit what we've done but you know both of these films feature a lot of creative editing bending time editing one of tarintino signature touches from the start and how ashby was known as one of the best editors in the business before he became a director nope. I'm going to have to stay true to my principles here can you at least he's talking about our parents. Share i will be talking about shampoo and elegiac comedy is set on the night of the nineteen sixty eight presidential election written by robert town and directed by ashby shampoo stars warren beatty who also produced the film and had a heavy hand in shaping it who can't resist seducing his clientele proclivity that leads to trouble when he finds himself forced to socialize allies with lovers whose ranks include characters played by lee grant goldie hawn and julie christie and a jealous husband played by jack morton and in next week's episode will look at another film that involves a a lot of driving from neighborhood to neighborhood late sixties los angeles quentin tarantino's once upon a time in hollywood a film set a few months prior to and on the evening of the manson some family killings of august nineteen sixty-nine both homes are at heart comedies but there's a sadness beneath their surfaces shampoo babies character fumbles his way for one embarrassing situation choice to the next while the size of change taking place beneath its feet in once upon a time in hollywood tarantino conjures up loss moment in time as the film follows characters look look out on an uncertain future fear what unhappy endings might await them. We'll be right back after the break was that okay fisher but you're actually going to edit this and make a sound good right lumbia pictures presents shampoo. It's the story of every hills hairdresser named george george george is great and all the beautiful people he god bless your great great and maybe your crate slow down. You move too fast george. It believing you are great. You got to make the last. I've had these dreams lately or somebody gets me and i throw me around. The room and i try to run away kicking down cobblestones. Eh how come i just don't let this fema shampoo though promises to what are you trying to do. Marry me. We're not dead yet. That's the only thing it's too late. I'm dappled and jazzy. I just want us to. I haven't normal life like everybody else. Get up early. Take you out to movie on the weekend. Maybe i just can't get out on my own way. They sit in november of nineteen sixty eight shampoo opens and closes with the beach boys. Wouldn't it be nice a song that yearns for a future that can't come fast enough but by the time of films released that future had already arrived wasn't as rosie the song imagined it would be america entered the gerald ford era that he indeterminate period that followed the resignation richard nixon nineteen seventy four after just five divisive deceitful years in office to better tomorrow the characters of shampoo dreamed of had never arrived but as the film opens opens they don't know what's coming in fact they don't give much thought to the bigger world around them at all beyond what it can give them for george playbay warren beatty that's maybe his his own shop and with it the independence and freedom of working on his own but it certainly means a continuation of the life he's living now in some form one which he flipped from woman to woman who appreciate what he can and due to their hair but loved the attention paid to the rest of their bodies even more. It's when feelings into the picture that george has trouble we first meet him. Interrupting his lovemaking with felicia a wealthy patron played by lee grant to take a call from jill an insecure young actress played by golden han his entanglement only get more complicated over the next thirty six or so hours as he flits blitz from felicia to jill to jackie play by truly christie an old lover who's now mistress to fleece us husband lester a wealthy businessman played by jack warden. You almost almost a scorecard to keep track of it all and that doesn't even include felicia teenage daughter played by carrie fisher and other minor players all of whom george treats with the same slightly puzzled affection affection attentiveness until someone else distracts him and he leaves them in the cold. He's a talented professional and a warm presence but he's also a man who's starting to realize maybe eh that he's pushed his current way of living as far as it will go. His affairs has started to bump against one another his lovers patients has started to grow thin and he's haunted by bad dreams or at least just one bad dream. The one which is life remains the same until you the unthinkable age fifty the nurse jackie the woman who's memory can't quite shake and who seems seems to drift back into his life at just the right time only. Maybe it's not the right time. As a night of the election stretches on another drama plays out in the background one in which nixon promises to tonight the country and his running mate spiro agnew advises a return to traditional values the product would new more permissive era george finds himself surrounded by those who want to turn back the clock without him realizing application of their beliefs time is running out for him and for the sixties california in which he and his friends and lovers live dayglo bubble doesn't pop early in the film jill imagined hearing gunshots echoing through the hills around l. a. and it's almost as if those echoes come from the future baby in town town worked on shampoo for years but the time served the film well giving them in director hal ashby the distance with which to reflect and giving bady that much more time to develop a self awareness. It's about his public perception. Beady is unlike george a smart man and obedience town model george after several elliott hairstyles. It's hard not to see bits. Abadie's own famously active love life and the character he dated both haunting christie and fisher wants recalled him offering to quote alleviate the burdens of her virginity and makes my day. Eh george tells jackie it makes me feel like i'm gonna live forever but he's not no one is and by the film's end even george seemed to have woken up enough to realize we have this political thing tonight to come out of the house. We went to the bank it to see what your husband yes. What about. I think it'd be a good investment asmat. Find tony listen baby. I'm a star. I'm a star chubby central george winston. We talk doc now. This is important. I have a decision to make about whether or not going egypt honey. Did they offer you the job no but but i think they might see the one with the pancreatic goals. I don't know they did not do the vice still want your feelings about after work can talk afterwards but i never know when you're working and when you're not working i live in berkeley beach and just did to isolate how she touched. It made it all into something else. Now i know what it is. I just got a standing joke anyway with a good investment grew. Tell us your thinks all right so scott and genevieve. What's your history with this film and what did you. What did you make of it. This is my first time seeing the film certainly knew of it but mostly in the context of babies career end sort of reflected the peak of his hollywood lazaro persona or whatever i knew it was like a very successful film but had had never seen it and funnily enough. I've watched this film with my mom and she was like oh. We'll be great. I haven't seen it since it was in the theaters. It's been so long and we watch together and when it was over she was like i never saw ah that so so she also just like i think had sort of absorbed it enough to the point where she believed she had had seen it. <hes> uh-huh which is <hes>. I knew i hadn't seen but i did kind of feel like i knew what this movie was going into it and it was to a certain extent what i was expecting <hes> but i was really <hes> not expecting the three really great female leads in this movie and the performances there and and sort of the almost screwball comedy tenor. It takes on especially at the <hes> the election night a banquet. I enjoyed it a lot. It feels feels like a crowd-pleasing film and like i certainly after hearing you deliver keynote on it. Keith and you know thinking about it in the context of this pairing. I can certainly see see the you know the deeper residences that are going on there but i can also see how this is joe. This would just be a a fun movie that you would have a good time out laugh a lot. You see a lot of people and maybe not really engaged with a whole lot beyond that so. I'm glad we're doing that in this context because i think there there is a little more there. It'd be into so melancholy. I think it sort of the you've you know you laugh your way through the first parts and they're like oh wait. There's actually implications. You're just seeing how about you scott. Eh my history was it was part of the great undergraduate delusion that i was watching the library that included all of hal ashby's classics except for held elden pod which i caught way way way later and wrote a piece about for the av club so i am and i my impression of the time was that it was just not as substantial daniel film as ash other classics and that impression sorta stay with me for a little while washing it again but the thing is the film film is a real grower like like just in. I think it has to do with ashby approach to this material which is to take what as you said what is a screwball comedy eighty and not play it as you would expect a screwball comedy we played it doesn't have it's not snappy. It's kinda slow to develop and i mean it. It does get you to this a place where they're at the party and georgia's confronted by all these women. He's slept with this man that he's cuckolded and it's this big mess that in a screwball comedy is that the payoff that you're working towards it certainly as genre that robert towne added no backwards and forwards of not warren beatty but ashby approach to everything is so california with so mellow and and he he so interested in the backdrop and the nixon angle the way that's plate is so so subtle you know the the soundtrack elements of this movie that kind of build up over time and like by the end of the film. I thought wow this is a really profound. Film film that it felt like it just been take on on a really surprising journey from start to finish because it seems so insubstantial in almost slow going <hes> slow to develop the beginning and then by the end of it was like hitches like a pile of bricks and you feel like wow i really know this character well and i know all i have a really good sense of all all of these people in all of their flaws and i think the film itself has flaws too that are kind of baked into the material i mean this is a movie about a man who both it does and does not understand women and the film i think also has an issue doesn't really know what it's doing. Either you know <hes> you know kind of it. Mirrors all all too well <hes> the the clewiston of its lead character but i just thought the whole thing was just rich in it was a really fascinating film for beatty. We'll get to because it's so much about him and his complicated relationship to his own persona but you're saying i was. I was just agreeing with you. The film kind of reflecting reflecting <hes> georgia's a character who was much dumber than i was expecting as i watch this like just maybe because he was the protagonist because i knew that you know he was based to a certain extent on on beatty himself and i assume there will be some some vanity at play there but he's really a a pretty dim bull. You know which i think makes the maybe the screwball elements come out a little more strongly but <hes> i i. I like what you were saying scott about how also sort of the films you know pacing and i don't want say emptiness but maybe perceived emptiness. Certain certain spots may be feels like a reflection of that element of georgia's character but keith. You're the one who suggested this film as a as a pairing you're reminded of it <hes> night once upon a time in hollywood so you would appear to have more of a connection to it <hes> so what sparked this for you. Oh i was really like i just revisited within the last year because i did a ranked list of hal ashby films for for volker but it's i just find it. It's it is it's funny and it kind of slowly draws you in and i felt like oh we'll get into two reasons why we paired it but i always feel like it has sort of the same kind of kind of deliberate rhythm in some ways once upon a time in hollywood in addition to dealing with the same roughly the same era and some of the same into the era themes but i mean it takes like how uncalculated the in georgia's. I really kind of believe in when it's almost like the sanctions kind of happened to him in a way you know i'm just not not to relieve him of any sort of culpability but it's like i don't. I don't know when over there and we and we sleeping together. It seems like it's sort of plausible. He's a very beautiful man and you know these women with <hes> either too much time on their hands or or too eager to see in george someone not someone who can take care of them which he's pretty demonstrably incapable of doing and he's barely can't really take care of himself. It's kind of interesting at the end when jack wound-care shows up his house and for as much care as he takes in self presentation he really lives like a slob lob yeah well. I think another one of the key lines for me is when he he comes out and says that he went to beauty school for the women you know he literally just wants to go around and get get late and lifestyle. He's leading but what he is incapable of is understanding. You know how his actions are going to affect people emotionally like he did that element. He hasn't completely worked out. He doesn't completely understand it but you understand. It's understands that a little bit in the in the sense that he's not open with these women about his deceptions. He's he's not open. He c- he breaks jill's heart. You know like like she's genuinely cares about him and he he does what he does and he does thoughtlessly and recklessly asleep and so <hes> so he's he's great in the moment and then once moments over he's useless and capable of helping anyone else yeah. We're thinking we run anywhere else. Really i find it interesting that you brought up the fact that he you know went to beauty school for the women and i mean we hear a lot in the film about how he is such a great hairdresser and you know he you know doing here. He these talks as if it means something to him he has this sort of self regard wrapped up in his the identity as someone who who does good hair but i think we're kind of left to wonder how genuine that is versus just something that he tells himself and other people tell him or are told by him that facilitates this lifestyle like within the context of a quote unquote artist you know i believe he's called an artist a couple times by women that he is sleeping with so yeah i don't i and especially in the context of a hollywood story where you know. Superficiality and talent are really intertwined in so many spaces in hollywood. I think this is just sort of another space for that sort of mentality. Maybe plays out in george so do you think he's good at doing here as as he thinks he is or others claim areas i mean i really feel like christie's. Character emerges from from makeover with almost feel like it's very happy with a look and almost feeling like it's a reinvention for four yeah well the thing is they all kind of have the same hairstyle like they get a variation on bob but you know if i can give you some hairstyle history tree you know which you probably already know but you know that sort of washington wear style that was revolutionary in the in the late late sixties you know the whole vidal sassoon revolutionised women not having to go to the salon every every week to get their hair curled and blown out and you you know shellacked so in the context of the day what hairstylist were doing with women's hair and talking like an expert. I'm not but i know a little bit about about this like i think it was easier to present as an artist because it was what hair silas were doing or were starting to do was different different from what had been done before then but you know all the women he does. They all kind of have variations on a long bob with maine's. He does a nice job even trims every hair you know but i don't know maybe a hairstylist would have a different read on the talent on display here but i don't know no that is particularly revolutionary what he's doing his blow. Drying technique has crotch blow drying technique. I've never seen that before so that i can say it was maybe revolutionary canary well. He's got he's got that hairdryer like holstered. A western company comes with him yeah yeah it's like it's like right right on on his waistline but but i think that if we're going to see the film as a play on beatty himself which i think you just have to <hes> that you would probably accept the notion that he's an artist that he what he's doing is is a better than say what norman is the who's doing that. Norman is mediocrity kirti but norman also knows how to run a business right. Norman gets the job done and he's not flaky and ultimately that type of person is who wins out of the end when he talks about how he wants to have his onslaught freedom. It's like how could you have more freedom now. It seems like just show up at work when he wants to and leave when he wants to as well yeah. Oh everybody really wants is just you know acknowledge acknowledgement but something more to feed his narcissism sure <hes>. I think if you get that that loan is a big trouble. Do you think there's any meaning to the fact that this movie is called shampoo. When george never shampoos clients he always at least passes that off to someone else to do <hes>. I never considered that. I don't think i answer that is interesting. I mean other than i think. It's just it's something that's evocative of salons sure <hes> but also maybe just like suddenness sort of like maybe soap opera you know evocation but yeah yeah i think that's what i was more thinking but i like i like this idea to him not of him passing assing off the shampooing to someone else so in his confessional monologue at the end georgia's aligned says not going to tell me. I don't like him very much referring to the women. Is that true. Does he like all the women in his life lyft. Is there genuine affection there. There's he's. I can't make up my mind because he's he certainly can stimulate affection but maybe to hear actually does care for these women which through analysis rude i mean i think he cares about the feeling he gets when they are paying attention to him like i think he feels seen in a way that maybe that that everyone is craving probably but you know i think that is maybe also why he is so easily distracted by women because it is he is drawn onto whoever is paying him the most attention and giving him that validation that that he wants. I think in the case of jackie there is probably we some real feeling they're more so than with the other two but i still think it is tied up more in him than them. I think the less kind read of the situation if you don't see it as a as a tragic love story that he comes realization too late. That's all of his life life which is one way to read. It also could be dislike that she is slipping away and he can't stand anyone slip out of his orbit. Well she so the last one standing banding she's she's like the last possible person that he could cling to as he's kind of fallen off the cliff but i still say that. I think there's something special about about his relationship to jackie. That's different than his relationship with the other two. They were former lovers. They're still friendly <hes> in that in that period in between she you come help them out when they when they meet each other you know by accident and jack warden's office and then they get back into each other's arms later so i think there is something thing substantial there but as far as issue about whether he likes the women that he's with my feelings that he does but not enough not more than he likes himself itself not enough to where he can sustain a relationship or have a relationship be a two way street where you can really kind of commit. I mean he keeps forgetting. Getting you know you have jill showing up. You know really reluctant to go to egypt for a shoot and asking him over and over again about it and he keeps forgetting that she what yeah what she's even talking about. <hes> were to her. It's extremely important that she could almost not get this role because she wants. She wonders what whether she should stay. <hes> stick around with him who probably wouldn't even notice that she was gone right. I think it's interesting that george drives a motorcycle and not a car because that is such a solo conveyance chance i mean you. Can you know maybe stick someone on the back but you know for the most part. It's it's just getting yourself around. You don't have to take any anybody else with you. It's certainly not any sort of family transport situation and i think it's just sort of reflective of the fact that george doesn't really have a lot to offer these women beyond the physical <hes> he you know we talked a little about his crappy apartment. You know he doesn't understand money. In any any meaningful way compared to lester you know obviously he is quote unquote keeping his women you know using his his money and empowered to keep them the same way that you know georgia's maybe using his physical attractiveness to learn them but i think in the end when we see this in <hes> jackie ending up with leicester's character like there's a realization that this attractive man is really really just an attractive man and that's all he can really be to these women. He can't be a provider. He can't be a partner. He's a good time guy see. I think that's all signified by by the motorcycles what i'm trying to say mic sent and also i think you get the sense that he is getting too old for this by the end or at least concede point coming coming. We're hoping to over this as well. It could get any sort clarification on how old he is supposed to be. A baby was late thirties when he made this but i imagine agean. I kinda read georgia's being a little bit younger but maybe not a you know someone in their twenty s anymore. He wasn't his late thirty s. He was one of thirty seven and so so yes he will definitely read younger to me in this movie than that i would. I would have put him younger but i mean he's also still a pretty beautiful dude. Dude at this very beautiful. Do hair is ridiculous ridiculous. It's ridiculous her this movie and he didn't even really do much with this movie. It's just kind of like exists as this big intimidating mass on his head but it's it's it's <hes> i don't know i don't know if you've got ritually sacrificed but it was pretty i kept thinking about though early warren beatty what has sensation he was as a screen presence i recently i mean it's one under the grass is obviously his huge breakthrough was first film but i watched a film. He did the year after that all fall down the john frankenheimer directed and he's you know this kind of the type of guy who nobody would have any who screwed up and screwed everybody over so many times that nobody would have anything to do with them except except he's beautiful. He's a beautiful person that that every man will child wants to wants to give another chance to kind of that sort of what beattie vega sort of riding out in this in this far as it can possibly go in this movie on top of his off screen persona as well which which feeds so much into this movie. This is definitely about the the trials of being a beautiful but shallow person so i in his essay for the criterion edition of the film <hes> frank rich writes about how how well it aged <hes> george a womanizer to films very much about women. It's life objecting to that in ways that you can see sting him at least in the moment and in nineteen seventy five which also might it might have played a sort of like the end of a period of american conservatism with nixon out of the white house but now crisis plays kind of prophetic. I mean this mingling of you know hollywood elites and <hes> show business and politics and the sort of <hes> you know under a bedrock conservative and it's always gonna come to the surface no matter or possibly always come to the surface no matter. How much the times change do you see as a film that now now has to say about how we live now as well. I was very struck by the moment early in the film where jill is talking about whether she wants is to have kids and says you know a friend of hers said the world is too overpopulated and hypocritical to have children which is a stance that i am you know very familiar with from here in twenty nineteen so i think it's interesting that that sort of cynicism about the future whether it has <music> been there in the ensuing fifty years the whole time or if it has just bubbled back up again you know i can't i can't quite say i definitely that moment sort whatever you know pulled me up short a little bit why couldn't help but notice during the party for leicester with all of leicester's republican buddies. There's an image of ronald reagan who was not president when <hes> shampoo he was five years away from being elected president when shampoo came out but he was a rising figure with within the republican party is from california's an actor governor california at the time the movie at the time movie set rather yeah the time the movie who says so but i mean there is that connection then between you know you think about hollywood is being removed or like this liberal enclave in the country and yet it has produced presidents conservative presence. I mean it has with trump and away means right. Trump is is a new york guy but he is hollywood figuring figuring that and that he's a t._v. E- he's he's come to us through the television. <hes> he's a television. He's being there basically that if we want to talk about how ashby movies at trump's presidency is sort sort of like a malicious version of being there <hes> so that definitely stood out to me in terms of the connection between then and now but at the same time i mean this. This film is very much of time of very much you know about a very specific night in nineteen sixty eight but also you know a film was made in nineteen seventy five and it looks like it feels like it too and so <hes> in that sense it it didn't necessarily you feel that that resonant or feel like it was connected in a prophetic in some way to the agent which we lived so i was trying to think kind of unrelated trying to think what how this movie would play as a nineteen sixty eight comedy lots of a swinging doors slamming indoors and and <hes> <hes> really outrageous hippies as opposed to just relatively outrageous hippies in this movie you know yeah. It's kind of like a everything so at half half-speed though it's so like a it's like a screwball comedy or bedroom farce or something but very played how ashby style or which is a much different tone in a much different pace. Everyone has to pause to react everything. It's not just sort of like shock and you know yeah. I like the kind of the signature moment being that very slowly opening refrigerator door as jack warns character looks on and sort of cheering on these two random people he thinks <hes> having saxon generally realize that those aren't random people people at all <hes> but i mean you could see i mean what would you know something like billy wilder with this material sure it'd be complete. It would be great. It'd be funny it totally the different approach probably meaner to yeah. I was so surprised how i mean bainian ashby were. We were very close. Friends to the end. Ashby's life in this is a huge hidden and and all that but i i'm a little i'd be interested to know what the behind the scenes story was. Whether badie in town were happy with the away their material was being handled because it has. I think a different quality <hes> as piece of filmmaking does a piece of screen writing. I don't know all the behind the scenes details it sounds like there was a fair amount of push pull between beady and town kind of both were working on their own versions of the screenplay at one point and then they had the synthesized sized into a single version and like i mean half interesting because he doesn't you know how how ask you something when you see it but you can't necessarily pin down i think i think you're right right about the pace. As much as the actual styles anything else is always a great editor. I mean just just the way this film cuts together. <hes> just the the rhythms of it and and the way these episodes kind of flow into one another. He's he's very good at that. I'm reminded of a bunch of films with this one. <hes> that followed it it'd be one is like the look of the movie and even a little bit of its maintenance is not that as mean as this one but it looked the it seemed like that the film greenberg mugs greenberg took a lot from like the texture of the film and <hes> but the other thing that reminded me of any kind of an interesting compare contrast way was that the unbearable lightness of being being because i mean there there's a movie about characters who wanna go through life just kind of indulging themselves sexual leaving the difference difference being in that case the characters by by down day-lewis and lowland have entered into an arrangement to be doing that i mean and then they break julia pinellas heart but but they've entered into an arrangement in so no one's breaking everyone's hearts but you know that happens anyway <hes> but but that film also has has that juxtaposition with history as well where they have that whole scene in what <hes> czecholsovakia with hanks and everything yeah right exactly so. Is it interesting kind of like to see how those two things kind of go together even just by way of contrast because i think there's something <hes> uniquely thoughtless about george's which is behavior here now. I don't watch that movie again. We should found a pairing for an unbearable lightness got one yet. It is good. We did one kaufman though i guess but we did. We did yeah but he's he he. He mixes it up a lot and we talked about appearing that might have involved rising sign of rising sun turned out well that would've been philip kaufman movie yeah. That's another thing i finally i want to destroy us out. What's who has the best outfit in this movie and who has the best here are genuine short-circuited short-circuiting this question by pointing out that all the kind of the same well i mean i have a definitive answer to this. The best outfit in the movie is jackie's election election night outfit that that black dress with the back the high cut fronting the low cut back. She looks amazing the hands down. Is there even another answer. Who has everything you no. One can talk about goldie hawn in this film honest lovely. I loved her character. After a lot i like jill seems like you know maybe the best person of this group you know and i did like her little sort of short sweater address that she went to her i dish in and that was that was cute but it was nothing even close to what what jackie was offering a love how the two male options in this movie are <hes> warren beatty or tuck worden not just jacqueline but jacqueline sort of unflattering lee dressed and with a horrible likewise it a wig. What do we know it's hard. Money really gives you a long way yeah. He's kind of a jerk or the jerk to his own muscle muscle muscle doomed also i can point her out via her outfit but <hes> carrie fisher's tennis whites are memorable perhaps because they are on baby carrie fisher making her film debut right yup. I believe i believe so yeah performed with her didn't want to end this without without talking about her and wondering if the little back and forth between her and george of him commenting on the the parts of her that look like her mom. You know obviously believe that that is upsetting to her. Fear reasons specific to the movie but i also wondered if it was a little comment on on fisher. The actress is for a moment oh man i think you know carrie fisher as someone who has a complicated relationship with her mother <hes> the easy casting without we we're gonna wind things down but we'll be right right back with feedback <music> now it's time for feedback when our listeners weigh in with their responses to recent episodes in anything else in the world of film. We're seeing the same observation asian about the art of self defense from two listeners kyle and jake so we felt the need to address it. We'll let jake's letters stand in for both scott care to read. It is sure jake rights was was. I the only one who felt the style of the dialogue in this movie was reminiscent of several yorgos length films. There's something about the strange short declarative statements the characters made in this the reminded me of the lobster and also killing of a sacred dear. I found it amusing for the most part but also a little alienating was wondering wondering if that comparison holds up for anyone else heath. What do you think jake. I have an answer for you. You're not the only one to feel that way because we had another letter about the comparison on out really occurred to me until we got these letters but <hes> yeah i see it. I can see that and you know it. It's it's a tough film to pound down. You know it's it's a film with its own kind. You've kind of feel to it but but sort of like you know sort of stilted observations like dane like you said declarative sentences does does hearken back l. unnatural right unnatural unnatural but also kind of darkly funny and disorienting and away. I mean i it's something that length is very careful with language so something that's so important to his movies. A dog tooth courses is a booby about parents who give different meanings to words to have the children have grow up with different understandings what what words mean and what certain symbols mean and and <hes> they just kind of build this false world around them and so this is obviously something that length <unk> cares about quite a bit ed and i think i think you could say that does carry over to the are self defense which is also about this environment that is very insular. <hes> whether it's just the eisenberg's office or the doj oh <hes> with is not a whole lot about cy input where it's very strange place. Doesn't that isn't like your ordinary strip strip mall karate spot. You know it's got a it's got a whole 'nother. You know. It's more like fight. Club is we made comparison and <hes> the filmmaker riley stearns kind of fines the right language to match that so it's very it's very stylized and perhaps it must be length mozambique if we got two letters about it sure. Why don't we that. I don't know what's wrong with us. We have good listeners all right well. We always appreciate it when our listeners share their thoughts accommodations. If you feel so inclined we career response on a future episode to reach us. You can leave a short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine seven three zero or email us at comments at next picture show dot net <music>. That's for the next picture show in our next sir. We'll talk about another end of an era l._a. Story quentin tarantino's once upon a time in hollywood look for that next tuesday or better yet subscribe to the next picture. Show on apple podcast spotify or your pot catcher choice. You'd better still you can support us. Patreon at patriotair dot com slash next picture show finds the next picture show dot net the follow us at facebook dot com slash x. picture show and follow us on twitter at at nick swisher pod so you always know when a new episode drops until then please remember their towels in the bath house but be careful scenes ah breath <music> <music>.

george george george hollywood warren beatty jill jackie carrie fisher bainian ashby georgia scott tobias janikowski ashby richard nixon keith phipps julie christie california quentin tarantino hal ashby goldie hawn jack warden egypt director
Michele Ashby  Changemaker On a Mission to Get 1000 Women on Corporate Boards  096

Extraordinary Women Radio with Kami Guildner

44:12 min | 1 year ago

Michele Ashby Changemaker On a Mission to Get 1000 Women on Corporate Boards 096

"This episode ninety six of extrordinary women radio. Welcome extrordinary women radio. I and your host Cami Gilmore women are being called to lead with voice vitality and vigor each week. Join me for wisdom field interviews with extrordinary women living out loud and making a difference in our world their stories will uplift inspire and spark your own purpose driven journey. No, my extra ordinary women. Friends. Today's guests on extraordinary women radio is Michelle Ashby a woman on a mission to get one thousand women placed on corporate boards. Currently there are only two women for every ten board seats sitting on corporate boards across the US and Canada and Michelle is on a mission to change this debris that ratio into a fifty fifty balance and to do it in a much faster time line than that our current trajectory of change, which is she shares with us. And this interview would take seventy years, I believe in her work. It is. So important. We talk about her personal journey to public boards working to male dominated fields mining in finance. Michelle has served on six corporate boards over eighteen years and is currently an independent director for McEwen mining. She's also a subject matter expert on corporate boards. A keynote speaker and an executive business consultant she interviewed two hundred women over eighteen months has found the gaps. It can keep women from achieving board status. And this research became the foundation for her ace board training for women with the goal of training one thousand women for corporate boards, and the corporate directors international board certification exam, which certifies candidates for corporate board service. Her program teaches women how to get on board. How to behave in the boardroom it teaches financial in league legal acumen? It also teaches women how to build their board resume, which is very different than. Traditional resume. Translating your experiences into executive vernacular. Michelle also founded Danny's foundation in memory of her daughter, Danny stale, which contributed over one million dollars for Ewing sarcoma. Cancer research over fifteen years, she has also served as a board member and chair of the board of the young college board at the children's hospital, Colorado. I'm so honored to feature Michelle today. Let's make the very extraordinary Michelle Ashby welcomed extraordinary women radio, Michelle. Hi cammie. Thank you so much for having me at really honored to be on your program. It's an honor to have you here. Congratulations for recently being named to the Colorado, women's chamber of commerce twenty five most powerful women in our state, what an honor I know it's pretty special, and if been really a world winds since that came out, thank you. It was a really fun celebration that night to go watch so many women that I that I knew being awarded in that space. And it was just like, it's it's really exciting. What's happening in Colorado right now. Yeah. And just to say one thing about that the recognition part for women who are complicating things, I think is something really important and the way that that has built up is really powerful not just for us. But for the community right to recognize that there are, you know, they're women out there who have been doing some really great things and accomplishing those though, I I was like is an honor very humbling, and it's still really important. It is really important, and it's pretty line to this mission that you're on to help a thousand women get on corporate boards, because as you know, it's it's recognizing what women are doing the the good the impact that they're making the the difference that they are making in their companies in their organizations all this that kind of recognition starch to raise the bar and L. Elevate. How women are seeing and heard and recognized in our community. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. So let's talk about this fabulous mission of yours of helping thousand women get on corporate boards. Tell us a little bit more about it. And what sparked the idea? Yeah. So Cami I was actually on my path to serving myself. So my male mentors my background in finance and mining and my male mentors. I watched them climb the corporate ladder get on three or four board retire out play golf, and you know, they're making half a million or more working part time and have stock options in their set for life. And that's where I thought I was headed I've been on corporate boards since two thousand and five and at the same time running businesses and starting new things I'm an entrepreneur at heart and in twenty sixteen when I started that path for myself to add more boards because I was on one at the time and the added a second one. With the same time that we started hearing more media coverage in around we need more women onboard. And it was that awareness that came to me that I was like, well, maybe I need to do something to help somebody else. So I got involved with women's chamber program at the time called board bound became a mentor. Got him in t- wonderful woman named Kim Carver complete. I mean, just amazing Lee, you know, all bide and accomplished in her own background and worked with her for a year, and we met monthly and built the curriculum for her, and it was really fun. And but I realized that even if the two of us get on three or four boards, we're not going to move the needle. So where's the needle right now said about eighteen percent of board across you know, cross the United States and Canada eighteen to twenty percent are women on board. So for us to get the parody, which would be fifty percent or more. I did my research and found out it would take a seventy years that's seven zero not one seven piece that we're going, and then I looked up. How many programs are out there? Just for women to help them get on board. I found two programs basically that were serious programs Harvard and Kellogg and those programs are five day weekend cost you about fifteen grand. And oh, by the way, when you fill out the application, you have to be a CEO or COO a pretty major company. So that left out ninety nine percent of a and I spent eighteen months interviewing about two hundred women, and I was like why are you wanna board like what happened in your career? And you know, what were those obstacles? So I just recognize that we are not going to get there fast enough. There's big gaps that women have in order to get on board. And I know what the gaps are now through. Interviews, and my background research that I did. And I I was like wait a second. I could I could go take care of myself and get on three or four board four I can go help a whole bunch of people get ready to get on board in this huge need out there. I just couldn't resist. It was it was just like this. This has to happen. At least we have to try. So that's when I decided we need an army of women to get ready for more than we're way behind and we need to do it really fast and really intensely and get it out there. So that's when I started developing the program in the late part of twenty seventeen and launched it in twenty eighteen well, first of all congratulations on the senate's so exciting to have someone with your expertise really taking on this mission. Because I agree with you at needs to shift at needs to change. And, you know, going for seventy years is not a, you know, really viable. Option. It's it's that pushed that that changed that needs to take place as you started to do the research. So you start going down talking to women who are great prospects for boards. What did you? Discover what what what were the gaps? What were the stories? You heard give us a little bit of insight into that. So I didn't know what I was looking for when I was meeting with these women. I was just intrigued with this whole question of wire, they're more women on board. So I didn't really haven't intention. I didn't know I was going to do this until late twenty seventeen has really about like if I were to meet you at that time. I'd be like candy. Why why do you think there aren't more women on and we'd have that conversation? And I would say why aren't you on aboard? And then I would ask you what happened in your career? Tell me a little bit about your background. And and then I would ask you can you introduce me to another powerful. One woman who who knows a lot about diversity. I was really looking for women who had expertise and diversity and the glass ceiling, and what what got in our way, and those were the women that I started out with and then it spread from there. So I have two hundred store. Stories and I mean, they are across the board. So let me just share one with you. There was one gal who ran a division within major corporation. I can't say any names here. And she ran the company up the part of the company, she ran within the major corporation under the umbrella, who's the largest revenue a group within the company, so very very important. She had about two hundred fifty people working under her. She made a lot of money or what six feet high six figures every year, very very successful, very well respected, their number one client who brought the most money, and they they had a client dinner. So she's with a couple of colleagues from her company and the clients there. I don't know who else was there, but you know, partway through the dinner the client reaches over unzips her sweater, exposing her bra in. Put his hand on her leg, and she jumped up and ran out of the restaurant. Come gone went outside. And yeah, she ran outside. She standing outside her male colleague comes out from hurled company and says to her thanks for taking one for the team. And while she ended up while to. Yeah. She went in ended up going to HR and HR basically came back and said we're gonna move you to another division to run another division. Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's something. So. Well, and it's not the only one I've met women who had these kinds of things in who signed that they've taken the money the settlement. They've signed the NBA's. So they won't talk about it. I've met women who fought it and who won. But it cost him everything. I've I've met women who just have all kinds of stories not all of them are quite that. You know, significant in what happened to them? But over and over and over there were there were clear things that I picked up on. And I looked at my own background and went wait a second. I was invited to boards. I didn't have to go big somebody to put me on a board. They came to me. I had no idea they were even considering or that I was a candidate. So how did that happen? And so that became part of my internal search and myself to find out do I. Have something they don't have. And if I do can I share it. And would it be valuable? And so what came from that that question? Yes. And yes, and yes, I I have to say that I've been a male dominated industries my entire career. And I've been fortunate to have extremely positive male mentor. And you know, when there's all these conversations around not being included. I don't understand because inclusion I was included. And I'm sure it's a combination of people that I would around and the way that I approached it and. A number of other factors. But I just been extremely blessed in having or choosing. Maybe I've chosen to be around people who are like that in an unconscious way. And that that that you found yourself in a corporate board by being invited into it. And where was the what was different between the two hundred women that you talked to. And what you discovered was not happening for them in what happened for you. There's there's so much that was different that, you know. That's why I developed the course because I heard different things from different people go, nobody is really exactly alike. And so creating something that would help women to show up and to be invited on board is my goal and the way I do that through work working with each women individually and helping them to identify their their board skills and experiences their executive skills and experiences, and how do you articulate those? So I say there's an executive Burnett killer. And I didn't even know that I had it. But because of all the years of working with the president, I spoke their language, basically from the beginning, man. I think that that's part of it it that's where part of the comfort. Don't come. It's like if you go to. France, and you can speak French fluently. You're much more accepted when you come in and your bumbling. And you're like, we will, you know, and it's the same kind of thing. So at the big part of this is teaching people about the executive vernacular, the executive mindset in how to communicate in that realm. So that people can hear you, right, right? So we're some of the stories that you were hearing women were they were they getting lost. And they. The shuffle of you know of the corporate environment because they weren't being seen. They weren't being heard because of the language they were using because a is it languages it? More than that. I think it's more than that. I think it's unconscious biases. The other thing is keep in mind that I am not a corporate girl. I'm an entrepreneur in two different kinds of people. And I think there are different challenges for women who are trying to come up in the corporate world, then there are for people like me who are outsiders creating value for companies or for business leaders, right? And that may have been one of the advantages that I had because I didn't have that glass ceiling. I was out there, you know, creating my own thing and and growing. Nine or railing, depending, you know, writing what was going on. So I like to differentiate those because they don't want. I think they're just different experiences. And I frankly don't think I would have survived in corporate America because I'm a little bit too independent. And don't you love that independent side of you? Right. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. So they were seeing you from a consultant perspective where you were coming in working, and they saw the value that you could bring to the table. Tell us a little bit about what that journey was like for you. And just share were there some difficult moments for you along that way to to to the success. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So it started out at the stockbroker in I came into the brokerage industry at in the eighties. When equal opportunity was the thing. So it was that the last wave if you can imagine thirty years ago, or when however long ago that was thirty five six years ago that was like the first wave of women coming into the workforce as professional other than teachers, nurses, and librarian secretaries. And so it's kind of very similar to what's going on. Now the door was open because there was a lot of pressure from EMC to meet quotas, though. These guys were like, we'll hire you will hire we they just wanted the gender. They didn't care whether I could do it or not I was a horrible stockbroker stockbrokers. Really are fails people in the beginning and that rookie year was really hard. But I took on these dead accounts. It were all gold stocks that had gone up and then down, and I talked to these clients who'd lost money, and they were the gold bugs, and I was fascinated by their philosophy about why they invested in mining stock. And they would ask me like what's going on with ABC goal? Then I'd be like, I don't know. But I'll call him and I'll find out so I'd call the president of the company, and I talked to him and Afghan hit all the questions answered and call the client back, and we'd have the big conversation. And I decided that was a great place for me to specialize go I decided to become a specialist in gold mining stock and interviewed two hundred companies went online orders. I align yourself with geologists. Yeah. This is my pattern. I do a lot of homework, and then bam next thing. You know, I'm starting a trade association for the gold mining industry to attract more investors to the companies in a group, and that was in nineteen eighty eight nineteen eighty nine and the first thing I did was put a retreat together and Aspen, I convinced a bunch of the EU to go up there, and I hired a male facilitator 'cause I feared that they would not listen to a woman in stockbroker. I was an outsider and a woman on top and go, I, you know, this guy got through the whole thing and came out with the with the outcome. I wanted them to come out with to form a group. So that they can market themselves to you know, to the investors and attract more capital, and they basically patted me on the head that thanks a lot little girl. Great idea. We'll take it from here. So that was my first kind of this is not gonna be you. You had the great idea. But we'll we'll get and at the same time. I had these these men there like four or five of them who kept going Michelle you have to do it. Because you're the outsider they're gonna fail. Sure. They're going to try it. But it's not gonna work, and we want you to keep going, and so they encouraged me to keep going. So it was a slog. I was a single mom divorced two babies to kids. I was a stockbroker working on a hundred percent commission. So that means you start at the ro every single month. And now, I'm launching this trade association. I've no idea what the heck I'm doing and the first conference I put together nineteen eighty nine. There were six hundred twenty five people that came awhile. And I did it all by myself. It was crazy. That's awesome. Yeah. But I think you know, when you do something like that just to notice right guys were like what the heck did she just pull off like the value that they got out of that was monumental. And so those that got it were behind me, and they supported me through it. And as the organization grew and became more successful. They did a bunch of weird stuff. So the board at one point like six years into it. They hired one of their male cronies to be executive director and take my role, and they were gonna pay him twice as much that they were paying me. So I would devastated and I had a couple of mentors, and I called them one was Susan Kirk. So I did the woman who helped me he used to be a staff person for Senator Tim Wirth, and you know, and the and the other was one of my board members the attorney on the board. And they told me they said, you know. You gotta keep in there. Because you can't let them take this from you work too hard for it. And you deserve it and Susan referred me to a friend of hers who was the former attorney general that color state of Colorado. She was the first woman, and I can't remember may now and I went and met with her. And I remember I was so scared, you know, so intimidated, and she looked at me. And she goes, I'm gonna write a letter. It's going to be a one page letter minute, send it to your board of directors, and I'm not charging you. And I just want you to know that this is going to scare the hell out of them when they give us. You're gonna be fine. And she sent that letter out and oh M G that board with like Wham. Bam. I ended up getting the salary that they were going to give this other guy. He got no salary. I got the the money but not the title. He got my title. So a few years later, I got the board together again hired still to come in and do a strategy. And I told the facilitator I want you to get it. So that they make the ego, and he did so I took the title of CEO, and my male counterpart with the executive director, you know, forever and ever, and I was there for eighteen years, and they would pull this kind of stuff every once in a while. But I I prevail. And I think because I had the wherewithal to ask for support. I had really good people to help me. And I was brave enough to stand up for myself. I did. Okay. Right. And there was. Having this associated with that as well. Being able to see what was happening step back and say, okay, I need some support around me. How do I maneuver this step forward? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's an incredible story. And as you start to think about how that then played into being asked in onto boards where did that? How did that happen? Well, the trade association that I put together the Denver gold group became known in the world as the best. We had the best conference in the US and in Europe, and it was very exclusive. So we only allowed the producing gold companies that are publicly traded and their largest institutional investors from around the world. So you can imagine that there were a lot of people who wanted access to the CEO of these particular two entities the money and the and the CEO, and it was my job to keep them out. And so I I I gained a very high level reputation as being the one who facilitated that, and they appreciate it. Right. And a lot of deal got done and a lot of people made a lot of money. I also very supportive and very interested in the industry what their challenges were I constantly was bringing. In outstanding. Speakers topics forcing issues with them as a group, you know, allowing innovation certain people to come in and talk about things that the rest of the company may pooh-pooh or think was a little bit out of that, you know, to edgy whatever the case may be and those made me stand out and they trusted me at built a trust. And the fact that they saw me as one of them and somebody who really cared about what was happening to them and to their companies to the people that worked for them and to their mind, and I genuinely was enthusiastic about who they are. And what they were doing. And that was my payback. Right. Right. And a couple of things I see that you did really well through that was that one you built a very niche market space. You were in the mining space. Right. You you. You knew that space. You knew the top people in that space, and you became known as as as somebody in that community community as a leader in that community that it was was was working with the very top people in those organizations. So really, I would say that's really important when you're thinking about, you know, finding the corporate board you have to have those those connections in those relationships yet and visibility. Yes. I had a lot of is ability. Everyone knew my name if you're in the gold mining industry in and you you you either knew the Denver gold group or you knew me or you knew both right? I spent most of my most of my career after it hit after we hit our our stride at that. Most of my time telling people no you can't come in. Ran that raised my my profile own interesting. So you kept that very elite group of people. People coming to the table. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So now what you have your program today. How do you? What are you teaching women in this program? So we cover that kind of standard stuff the board governance financial acumen had to get on board. How to behave in the boardroom? We also have experts that come in and do like the audit. You know, the auditors come in and talk to the the cohort about audit committee and by Nanteuil red flags on financial statement legal. I have a legal teams that come in and talk about risks and responsibilities or directors. And then I have an expert who comes in and talk about blockchain in the boardroom and beyond that, we do a lot of self discovery. There is a lot around building your board resume. So that's a foundational piece aboard resume is very different than a professional resume. And what we talk about is your value proposition. What skills and expertise you have in your? Background that's at the executive level. And how do we transfer that into that executive vernacular that I was talking about earlier? Right. So that when people are reading it 'cause who's gonna read your resume. Do you think is going to be a woman? No, no, no. So it has to speak to the male brain. So I helped translate it into a way that the male brain. Can it very naturally accepts the information that going in? So it eliminates that first hurdle. Okay. And you're you're also helping them start to network and build their connections their communities in start to help them. Find channels correct, right? They come out with a plan. They come out with their plan of how they're going to get on a board. What companies are they targeting or what types of companies are they going to target who are their networks who were there who are their champions for women who are introverts, and maybe don't have a lot of networking. Don't like to do that. You know? Sometimes I'll pair them with other people. I invite some of my cohort to go to different functions. I let them know like I'm gonna be at this about, you know, would you like to come with me? And I will introduce you around, you know, kinda help them get going. Oh, yeah. So the practice elevator pitches. And it's a it's a great place to you know, to stumble and fall and do all kinds of things in a very safe environment. I create a very safe secure confidential environment where we can all like, let her hair down and really get down to the nitty gritty and then build ourselves back up. So it's like boot camp, right? You strip away all the crap. And then you build yourself up in this on crowd ably powerful way. That's awesome. That's awesome. So I've been serving on nonprofit boards for nearly a decade. Now, what's it like being on a corporate board? And how does it vary from being on a nonprofit or foundational board to be on a corporate Ford? Well, your level of responsibility as much different because as a director, first and foremost. Yeah, you know, your duty of care. And so as a director independent director, I'm representing the company and also representing the shareholders. So I'm sitting in a role that really quite complex because I want the best for the company and for the employees and for the outcome and at the same time I wanna help with shareholder value. Make sure that we're paying attention to what the shareholders are expecting. What's what's the share price? Why is it worth that? If it's not as high as we think it should be better at cetera. So there's a huge difference between sitting in advisory board role in a private company that a corporation or public board, and you're highly regulated sometimes in both but primarily in the public side because you're under the. Securities and Exchange Commission regulations or in Canada, you know, the on -tario securities commission. So there's a lot more there. So typically like a great way to talk about it is when you're in the boardroom typically, we have an attorney, and our CFO that sit through the entire board meeting with the except for when we need them to leave because they're management, and we have conversations without them in the room, and our attorneys there to make sure that we're following our agenda. You know, what goes in our minute is very important. What doesn't go in our minutes. It's very important. So there's there's a lot to more regulation than to come about with. There's also from the perspective of corporate boards. You're paid. You got that? Right. So it can be anything from maybe I'm in a startup, and I'm gonna get stock options, and some days, those may turn into a big Cassian mom, and also I could be paid director fees. I could be paid a salary or fee that's on an annual basis. And then I get stock options on top of that. That's pretty typical. That's pretty much how I've been compensated throughout my board career, and yeah, that's pretty much how it works. I mean there are variations of those two things. But if you're on a committee, so let's say you chair a committee, usually get more. Okay. Then he'd get like your salary, and then get an additional what sort of dollar ranges. Are we talking about here? And and they're going to vary by company size, and that sort of thing, but give us just some ideas. Yeah, they do range by company. So, you know, you're the smaller companies you're talking maybe twenty thousand forty thousand a year. Plus, doc, the you know, as you go up, obviously it gets higher. I think commonly in the big companies like the the fortune five hundred. I think the average is about two hundred and thirty five thousand a year. Plus, doc. Nice. Nice. So what vice would you give to our listeners who are thinking? Gosh, I'd love to be on a corporate board. How do I do that? Well, I think the thing is to start to do your homework and find out like, you know, how to how do I do that? And you real I would really really stress that you need to be prepared because you're only gonna get one shot. If you go out there, you really don't know what you're doing. And you're just Wham be Pam B L and people, you know, get me on your board. It's gonna make a bad impression. And they will not recommend you for for anything that comes up. So I think it's something to be very Pacific about and to recognize what you don't know. So that with like, the one of my biggest aha moment in interviewing all these women is they don't know what they don't know. And you know, going up and saying head love to be on a board. What do you pay? That's that's not a good way to approach it. Yeah. And and, but I've heard people do that, you know, and I'm like oh. My gosh, you gotta you gotta there's there's a different way to do this. So that that's why I'm doing what I am doing is to help women to have the best chance possible to get on the right board, and it has to be a fit on both sides, by the way. Right. It can't just be your you're offered one. And you just take it you you gotta be picky to right, right? And how does somebody now if they are are board material? That's a good question. I my criteria is. I want women who are who are either in leadership role or who wanna be in leadership role. Unlike harbored and Kellogg. I'm not looking at the fact that you've already made it in a CEO role man I've trained women from their thirty to their seventies. Because these women in all the age groups need it. They they have what it takes the chutzpah the leadership. They have passion. They wanna sit in a role and make decisions at the very top. You know, I say it because I'm bossy that I like being in the in the boardroom, but it's really serious, and it's not easy. You're sitting there like I said, you're in this role of responsibility for a lot of people. So you have to have a lot of it. But it do that. And if you're in your thirties, and you don't have the experience yet. But you have. Conviction and you are really heading into that leadership. You are a candidate to me because with what you're gonna learn the trajectory of your career will be driven by you. Not by circumstances that come your way, or by what offered to you. You get in control of where you wanna go. And if a board seat is somewhere in your future, and that's on your list, you're gonna be hade differently. And you're gonna be invited. Just like I was because you will stand out, and you will know what the vernacular is in you will be recognized as someone that would be a great candidate. Nice. Nice. That's awesome. The where can people? Learn more about your courses in your work. Michelle. So the website has a lot of information about what the courses about. And that ace LLC dot consulting. Right. ACC? Right. Yeah. Yeah. LLC like, limited liability, corporation dot consulting. And there's a submission page. Right there. You can Email me, and I will send you a board assessment quiz. I do info sessions from time to time that I can invite people to so we can sit down and talk about the, but I started out with this board assessment with thirteen questions very quick, and I can send you that link and you can zip right through that. And get your initial feedback on where you are. And what kind of interest you might have in doing this at some point in your career? And right now, you're building a class in Colorado and another end, what's the other city? So I have three courses here. One vent. Yeah. Then cooper. Okay. And Denver and Toronto. And what I tell people is don't worry about the jurisdiction because if you end up going to Canada to take the exposure, there will be very beneficial. There are a lot of Canadian companies are looking for board members as well. And I do get requests for women who are who are from the US. I've my boards are all Canadian in US myself. So I'm very comfortable there. And have a ton of context though, that been working quite well thirty two graduates, we have six women on seven boards already in. There's a whole bunch of on that are in their interviews right now while I'm going to bet saving. I know we spoke. So that's congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. I'm expecting to announce maybe another six or so in the very near future because this is like, you know, this is the season where they're really. Putting people on board. So so yeah, it's an eight week program. And we do a retreat for four days, and there's home study, then we reconvene at the end or a full day workshop. So it's a pretty condensed course. So even though you're busy it's easy to get in and out and do that and get certified there's a certification exam can take and walk away with the designation from corporate directors international as a certified board candidate. And then you go into a profile catalog that I created and that catalog is circulated to the connectors and influencers who are looking for board candidate. And it's been very successful. Just utilizing those tools to help women get exposure. That's awesome. That's totally awesome. Well, I am so excited about what you were doing for women in our world. It's I think it's important. I think it's important for the companies that are going to be benefiting from board board of directors. Members that have gone through your programs. And so thank you for all you're doing tell us that final question. I always close with our what three proposal wisdom can you share with our audience today? Yeah. I saw that. So I I have them. They're pretty quick. When his stint the first one is stand out. And that means you got to you got to whatever that means. It could be the way you dress. I were colored all the time. I usually go into meetings or conferences, and they're all men, and it's a sea of black suits, and I'll be wearing something and peach or yellow or, you know, bright blue or something like that stand out then out by how you how you work what you do for people. And and you know, so that they recognize the value that you're bringing kind of like the story I told about them gold group. The second one is stand up stand up being raise your hand and say I'm gonna do that. Even if that little voice inside say, oh, I'm scared. I don't have what it takes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, stand up and and stand for yourself. You know, I know that this is hard in these corporate situations these stories that I've heard I admire these women who have the courage to stand up for themselves, and they go through hell and. But they feel really good about who they are in the end like they did the right thing, you know. And so standing up down easy, but it can be it can be. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But you'll love who you are on the other end of it. The third one is something that. My my daughter gave me one thing. We didn't talk about is. You know, one of the significant change things that affected my life was I had two children. And my daughter was diagnosed with cancer went to eighteen and died when she was nineteen. So that was like the the biggest thing in my life, but she lived her life so fully like she lived more than most people do in forty years. So she was my wild child very challenging a loved her. She was just great. Anyway, what she she gave to me as a gift with a song by Bob Marley? And I play it every time I kind of get a little scared or you know, like when those moments are there, right? So in it. I think it's called three little birds. But the the line that that really stands out for me is when he says every little thing is going to be okay. Yeah. And or be all right that that has gotten me through a lot of of crap of head trash. So just remember that everything's gonna be okay. That's my third one. I love that. Well, this has been awesome. Michele, thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom on this topic that I think is so important in our world and thanks for joining us today. Thank you. I'm so excited. This is like my first ever podcast interviews. Like my. I'm a virgin podcast. You're you're awesome. You were telling and it's a great way for you to be spreading the word. So I'll spread your name around for for some of my other female podcasters that are doing his audiences. So I know I love it. I'm so excited. Thank you for having me view that you bet and good luck on your program and wanted maybe one of these days, I'll actually jumping on your program as well. I think that would be amazing. So I would love to have you. Yeah. Well, thank about that. Okay. Let's say, okay. All right. Bye. I hope you like this episode of extraordinary women radio. It's you did. Please share this podcast with your own special tribe of women and help spread the love the dreams and the inspiration. Are you ready to raise up your voice, your visibility and your business? I am by you to visit me at. Gilmer dot com. The find out how you can make heartfelt connections to mindful strategies to ignite an abundance low of cash and clients into your business. I love to hear from you on any of my social media channels. I'm on both Facebook and Twitter. Tell him next time, my friend, listen to your heart. Follow your dreams. And be Hugh.

Michelle Ashby director executive CEO Colorado United States Canada Denver attorney golf Cancer president consultant McEwen mining Cami Gilmore Cami I cammie Kim Carver Lee
Florists Fear A 'No Deal' Brexit Would Wilt The Flower Business

NPR's World Story of the Day

04:30 min | 1 year ago

Florists Fear A 'No Deal' Brexit Would Wilt The Flower Business

"Support for this NPR podcast and the following message. Come from the UPS store, offering services from shredding to printing to mailbox ING and instead of closing this holiday. The UPS store is doing another ING altogether. Opening the UPS store every ING for small business. And of course shipping. Valentine's Day is huge for florists around the world. But in the United Kingdom the risk of crashing out of the European Union next month has cast a shadow over the industry mini shops, fear their lifeline to flour supplies in Europe could be severely disrupted. NPR's? Frank Langfitt reports from the English town of Whitney. Roseanne Ashby's wrapping up a bouquet of roses and lilies at our shop Rosa flowers in Oxfordshire near part of a wide selection of flower. She offers most of which come from the same place. These all come from Holland. The least come from Holland and the croissant. Spreaker sounds come from Holland up until now the flowers have flowed seamlessly across the border because the UK's part of the massive you single market, but the United Kingdom is scheduled to leave the U late next month, and there's still no deal on how to keep trade flowing. We're very worried we don't know what's going to happen. Twenty nine government. Don't know nobody knows. And I worry is. When will we get the flowers? What price will they tariffs? Go on. The government insists the majority of you plants and flowers will continue to enter the UK without health checks, but businesses of all sorts are worried about an ideal Brexit so have been filling up warehouses across the country with everything from auto parts to ice cream in case trade slows dramatically Ashby's industry. Doesn't have that luxury. We can't have a contingency plan. The cat stop piler goods because the fresh flowers. We're only a small business coming up to twenty second Valentine's. It's so sad abroad. Moves pope, an odd share the British frost association here in the United Kingdom wills. Pope who spoke over Skype says Ashby's plate is typical eighty percent of our flout. She come from Holland. So they come by the Eurotunnel or ferry and wills pope says that dependency developed over decades, while the UK has been inside the you now poses a threat to flower-sellers here. We are looking at something which is unprecedented in the forty years that we mean po- single market because has tons involved the English growers of soda up and initials of being built on and more more, but options being to homes regen, San no, no, no. Back in Whitney, one of Rosa Ashby suppliers arrived from Holland today's Barry, snapper, and he's just come through the channel tunnel with his refrigerated semi packed with flowers. Ashby and snapper haggle is they have every Wednesday for at least the past six years. I asked Napper what he fears most from a no deal. Brexit all the extra gypsies import duties charges waiting at the tunnel. Eurotunnel to to come across. It's never says that would force people like him to raise prices, which he thinks shops. Here will have a hard time passing on a lot of people will struggle to sell flowers to the public people. Well, they're still going to buy foods and everything, but they can skip the flower. How important is the UK to your business? I only supply today UK two moments. People say to me, do you want to expert to another county, but I think coming over for over twenty years to Britain. And yeah, it's too difficult. Think to go to another county now some snappers clients Valentine's Day orders are now, which they attribute to Brexit uncertainty snappers been trying to calm their fears. I always say the same affording, the February it's men and they come in Las minutes. And that's the same story every year. It's always on the bay itself today after British flower shops are planning ahead. They're ordering early for mother's day. Which in the UK falls on March thirty first two days after the United Kingdom is scheduled to leave the U. Frank Langfitt, NPR news, Whitney England. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast.

United Kingdom Roseanne Ashby Holland NPR Valentine Napper Eurotunnel United Kingdom Whitney Pope U. Frank Langfitt Comcast NPR Rosa Ashby Europe European Union Oxfordshire Whitney England Brexit Las minutes
Writing and adapting Orphan Black with Madeline Ashby

Breaking the Glass Slipper: Women in science fiction, fantasy, and horror

56:37 min | 1 year ago

Writing and adapting Orphan Black with Madeline Ashby

"At breaking the Glass Lipa Way believe it is important to have conversations about women and issues of intersectional feminism within science fiction fantasy and horror to continue to do so. We need your help. Please consider supporting us on Patriots. Join the compensation by following us on twitter. FACEBOOK and instagram welcomed breaking the glass slipper. I'm Lucy handsome and I'm Megan Lee tonight. We'll be discussing the creative creative mechanics of carrying on successful TV series in audio book format. So how do you adapt a popular narrative that has worked so well L. in one format into an entirely different medium. Well to answer that question we have madeline. Ashby here with US tonight. Madeleine do you like to introduce yourself. yeah sure thanks My Name's madeline. Ashby and I am one of the writers on Orphan. Black the next chapter out now from cereal box publishing and I'm also a science fiction. Writer futurist brilliant. Well thanks for coming along and talking to us about one of my favorite shows as a full black it stands out as one of the very ratios that features a cost multiple and complex female characters while subverting flipping Lord of the trips. Jobs were really used to seeing on TV. So how do you stall adopting a narrative. That's worked so well in one format into something that is so so completely different when we think about television we think about audio Kind of so used to images and sensation. How does how I mean what are what are the kind of ground rules? How do you even approach that? It seems very complex to me. I feel as though that's a I almost think that's a question For for the lead of a writer's room who is mlk older who you may know from the central motorcycles from of the the and and and those and and from just being an awesome person on twitter generally and And if you don't know her you know her brother Daniel Jose older and and so I feel as though she was the one who sort of put together the pitch. She's the one who who sort of put together like. Here's this format cereal. Box for those who don't know is podcasting fiction poor format that allows you to either read sort of serialized fiction of any genre really and also listened to it So if you are more of a reader or if you're a faster reader you can sort of scroll through at your at your own speed but if you prefer for audio fiction or audio based fiction or you prefer to listen to things rather than read them you can drop what you've been doing. You can drop where you're reading thing and then pick up immediately on audio so if you stop at if you stopped mid sentence or mid paragraph it'll pick up where you left off and and so What we're fortunate enough to do with orphan? Black is have the star of the show Tatyana Lonnie reprising all of her roles. Reading our work as we sort of continue the series on and we get her we get her voice so. I'm not sure that anybody is actually really reading reading the text. I think everybody is pretty much listening to her performance. So does that mean like. Do you think about that in terms of like writing for audio or do you still think about it as writing for prose narrative I it's a little bit of both but I once. We knew that we had her once. We knew for certain that she would be performing it. My sense of of the dialogue shifted a little bit. I because I could then hear her her in my head performing the different roles I knew that she would be reprising roles that she played before and I knew what she would sound like as a Fan China the show. I knew what she would sound like as she perform them so it could here in my head her saying the words before she said them or I could hear an approximation. I would sort of you know play. her out in my head. You know the way that she would the way that she would sound with certain voices and and so that gave me a better flavor or a better sense of what what it would mean for her to be performing the roles and then I started thinking about like you know. Is this a long paragraph for someone to read is the short paragraph for someone. I want to read. What does this sound like when I read it aloud and and stuff like that so though there were those considerations mean for me I love over black and I think it's amazing how you can watch this one actress just completely become totally different characters and you completely believe as well and I just wonder how you manage to get that across when say she? She's reading it or even. If if say the people did actually read text you know. How do you manage to get that across quite as well as she didn't win? She's acting visually have old. There's other cues. You have the little ticks that you know. She displays in a physical sense. You know how do you get that across. Just with the dialogue I really spent a long time with the voices of each character. I made sure that alison sounded like Allison Lake. I spent time I am with each character. Sort of think like playing out what they would sound like one of the things that I do as a writer is that I I am a very dialogue heavy writer to begin with and And so that's that's the thing that I enjoy doing For me I often hear character voices before I sort of see the built environment went around them or see what the setting is like or even what they look like. I know kind of what they sound. Like in my head and as a child I would I would tell myself stories before I was a writer I would. What sort of telling myself stories and I would make up funny voices for all of my characters and so a new kind of what they sounded like would rehearse them before? I could write things down around before I had access to to a computer or to the ability to type really I would rehearse things out loud and I had done like a lot of summer stock in community theater as as a kid and so the idea of what people sounds like has always been really important to me and and so in the text itself so for this in the text itself you can provide some level of of direction you can sort of using you know a a a ration of adverbs you can sort of describe whether or not someone said something crisply or whether or not someone said something you know whether or not someone bites out something or whisper something or mutter something or what have you like you can you can use said `ISMs a little bit to sort of get the action in and get the direction So there's so there there are sort of like little tricks right That you can use a stage stage direction but otherwise it was just sort of a matter of of really thinking about like well would would. would she really say this. Does she really sound like this. You know is is this character. who expose it's at length? Probably not you know if it Sarah then. It's not you know. Sarah Communicates in in curse words and short sentences sentences and so on Allison communicates in you know very high-flown optimistic everything from her. Sounds like a appear statement. You know stuff like that cosima explosives at at length right. She's always explaining something sciences. So in character the women have a dif- each have their own style of communication and style of speech and and from there it was. I just sort of tried to confine myself to those rules was was there anything particularly challenging about bringing this over to audio Because it sounds like you know that actually you found on your way through any kind of the more obvious difficulties when you're kind of looking up the differences between something vigilant something audio Missouri. The anything that you found exceptionally challenging yet will certainly. There was a different understanding of who the audience would be. And what what the audience would be sort of willing to put up with. Our chapters are longer than most formal book chapters for example like we have some chapters that are like ten thousand words or or above. Sometimes they're more and the standard short story. Length is between three and five thousand words standard novel at length is up to seven thousand words arts and once you get into ten thousand like really. You're really going into something quite a bit longer. And so you really have to be judicious in terms of how long has seen is How long a speech is how long a scene of dialogue? Is You when you have that much space to plan. You have to make sure that that everything is balanced balanced and paste correctly. And that you're you're not in any one place for too long or too short and that everything sort of meets up And joins up in an in an even way like that was one of my concerns and I write in scrivner. I compose scrivener. And scrivener is really good at sort of showing you the link each scene. And showing you how long you've dwelt on something and and that's what I've always found it really useful for when I'm plotting out a novel idea with the same way like most of the chapters have to look like each other in terms of length otherwise I start thinking about well. Okay where can we break this up. Is there a natural breaking point right somewhere here and I brought the same approach to this project so conversely is says something that you feel you could address in a much more interesting way in the audio format as opposed to television. Let's see Well certainly I mean there are budgetary constraints in the same way right. I mean when you when you're talking about television you're talking about a set your or a series of sets. That's you're talking about location shooting. You're talking about you know. Can we get this location. Can we get these props. Can we get These actors can we get You know this amazing mazing you know. Can we get this big explosion that costs X. amount of dollars to produce. Can we get bonded for this Insurance Etcetera Etcetera in in audio fiction. You don't have those concerns you know. The budget is what your brain says it is. You know you're you're limited only by your imagination and by continuity between the rest of things so oh so we got to do things that would have probably been somewhat expensive to produce You know for TV but we got to just sort of run with it because you know no the ones making the problem. No one's getting the insurance. No one is having to to get the location. We don't have to worry about whether or not the weather is same. Is Is the same thing day today for shooting outside like there were the the considerations in terms of of those things was was pretty liberating in a way that it would beef for a for a TV crew to find yourself deliberately choosing to put things in there that you just know that they could never have done in. TV like we can throw ruin. So many more sci fi cool technology things that they couldn't have afforded something like that. Well there were definitely considerations in terms of things like I live in Toronto and the show is set in Toronto and the story is set in Toronto so I could include Toronto locations that I knew might be a little bit more difficult to gut et And could include sort of Toronto specific things that the show itself might not have dwelt on like there's a hole in my introductory street in my chapter which has chapter five There's a whole long digression about Toronto raccoons which everyone who lives in this city. Understands to be of a facet sort of living here but people who don't live in Toronto might not understand it and so he got to go on this long. This long digression about Toronto raccoons that I doubt the show would ever really explore in any depth and and stuff also. Because you know then you'd have to get a raccoon wrangler and those are also expensive. I I mean to go into my own digression I really love it when I'm watching things or reading books that they features of local place that I know really well which Wjr from Perth Western Australia. which very rarely features in anything else really interesting but it is? It's really fun when you write about something that is legal. Go to you and then you're reading that you can go 'cause you now I live in Oxford and there's a lot more that is based knocks can be like all my Nike that straight and I've been there so I I can imagine that's quite fun to be able to write that into the narrative. Yeah no it was. It was hugely hugely fun. It was you know It was a it was a big. I love letter to to where I live in a lot of ways so I was really happy about that when something is being such a popular can a huge hit and is developed a cult following. How do you approach dealing with any kind of you know? High Audience Expectations Nations Without being afraid to try something a bit different will there to there to answer. The question was that I was a fan of the show and I trusted Austin my own instincts in terms of being a fan of the show. I knew why I liked the show and I knew I had a sense of that. What I enjoyed the about? The show was probably probably what other people injured enjoyed about the show. As I was writing it I did go back and read reviews recaps of certain episodes and especially the the finale and sort of got a sense of what people had been watching it. Four Lake when you read those sort of series ending Pieces or think pieces about the show you get a sense of sort of what other people were responding to at the same time as you were and what they got out of it what was important into them and so I did sort of do research at at that level and sort of see what you know checking my own assumptions against against other people's reviews Otherwise I had done prior to this years ago in another life when I was More of an academic than I am now I had written my first master's degree on a fan fiction Japanese anime and and Cyborg Siri and so I had done in all my reading of Henry Jenkins and Janice radway and and all those theorists about fan culture and so I had really like I came to with with what I think is was a healthy dose of respect for both you know the tradition of fan fiction and the tradition of carrying on carrying on narrative narrative for people and also understanding that in the intervening years like probably people of their own head Canon of what was happening and I would really just be adding like one story story to this that that I had the privilege of working with a a whole lot of other writers on and having the blessing of the of the the creators and having Tatyana on board and and so I I sort of thought of it thought of it that way and and tried to be you know as respectful as as as they could be. The theme of identity is incredibly strong throughout often black. And it's also touched on in your novel company town. What is it about science fiction? The Healy Sifi that expose gender alongside identity as a whole that makes such powerful and compelling explorations of the the subject. Well I think Science fiction going back to the roots of it going back to two Mary. Wollstonecraft shelley is about. You know the the the beginning of all of this. You Know Science Fiction Frankenstein is about who gets to be human being and what gets to be a human mandy and what gets to be a man and now we sort of have questions about what gender actually is and science fiction is I think the one of the ideal genres for for exploring that. I think that most fiction is about you know what it means to be human being but science fiction takes that extra extra leap and says well how what are the borders of humanity and what are the borders of the things that make us. Human gender is one of those things and so that's always been a fascination of mine and So I think that that a story like orphan black was a good way to has always been been good at sort of looking at the limitations of the human especially in a story where WH- where these clones have their you know actually have their their genome patented in-copyright if they don't have they don't actually have rights to their own bodies which is for me such a story about women in general Not Having rights to to WHO and what they are and not necessarily being recognized as as people Depending on where when you are in in history and in space and and and so in company town I I really tried to also explore that from the perspective of somebody who is the only augmented a a person on a on an oil rig. That is that is full of augmented people. She The protagonist of that novel is the only person who who doesn't have really really a whole lot of augmentation and sort of is the last baseline human on on the rig. Is that what you would be the The lost augmented human. It's I mean it's possible I would probably I. I already have certain augmentation. I already wear glasses already. Take Medication Shen there are. There are things that are already sort of you know that I already uses as prostheses right In a certain way from from sort of Donna. Heroin Cyborg Syria perspective. Those are all prosthetic devices that that alter how I behave As human being and who I am in in relationship other people So there's so there's you know. I already use certain things like that. Depending on how you WanNa read post humanity entity or augmented bodies or or what have you I think that I would be deeply skeptical of of augmentation. I mean today It was either today or yesterday. The news came out that alphabet which is Google's Sort of Larger Company the the larger company. That owns Yahoo Google and facets of Google sidewalk in and whatever And WAYMO had acquired fitbit alphabet has acquired fitbit which means that Google has fitbit which means that Google has For for a lot of people are a growing number of people access to the things that determine their access says to health insurance private health insurance within the United States and so google now has access to that data and I've never owned a fitbit for exactly the reason I knew that eventually You know fitbit data was gonNA get fed until health insurance or fed into actuarial science in some way and you know whether it was a google or Microsoft or a or a facebook or whomever One of these big stacks was gonna it Kinda by it and and or gain access to it in some way and that would not be good for the people wearing those things and so I've always steered away from things like that. I don't have a Smart Watch. I don't I don't wear fitness devices. I don't Have I don't have an in home. Personal Assistant Things like that. I've it it took me years to get a mobile phone Took me years to get a smartphone. I was way behind a lot of other people in that and and it was in part because they could kind of see where you know how would be leveraged against people and so yeah I would probably be one of those Qamrun curmudgeonly curmudgeonly People who who just didn't want to participate or who didn't who didn't see everybody else doing it as a reason to do it. I guess US I find that interesting. I mean it is probably a stereotype to assume that people who are interested in science fiction or SCI FI writers is our into tech and like into the new changing world. But said you know it's quite interesting to to hear from someone who writes Sifi but with it might not be the first adopter Mutek well. I think there's actually kind of tradition of that. I think I mean I think famously. Like William Good Sir. Uh William Gibson composed neuromancer on a typewriter He He proposed the idea of cyberspace from a from a paper in ink medium and and what he said in interviews that. He's glad that he did it that way because if he had if he had written it on a word processor it would destroy. Destroy The magic of of Imagining Cyberspace. So he wanted to be separate from the thing that he was creating in a weird way so that he could still imagine the possibilities of it. His his imagining of what was possible was not `curtains curtailed or constrained by his own personal experience of technology. Oh Gee if he had had to deal with like an incredibly clunky word processing format he might not have had the same opinions as he did as as he was writing the book and so I think that there is something to be said for kind of holding back a little bit. But there's also you know as in my other career you know a look at tech trends all the time so I look at people being early adopters and I look at the purchasing habits of early adopters and what they get out of it but what they get out of it and what I get out of of something very different You know I'm I'm not into constant subscription services for example sample like I I don't you know I don't even get my nails done regularly so the idea that I would be subscribing to to to access you you know to attack thing is even like a whole other bridge to to cross nails I. I caught my nations because I played the piano. Yeah so the nail thing was never going to happen. No like the idea like will you can spend X. amount of dollars for this APP that gets you thus insurgents insurgents like well. You know I don't even do. There are so many things that I just opt out of naturally like. I think it's also just introversion right. It's also just as a species of of introversion but also I mean so In terms of like not having certain things like one I think my dad was. We're always sort of held back on things. We had a Betamax. DCR FOR LOW. You know into the time the DVD's were coming out. We didn't get a DVD player until my dad one one at a work party and And even then it was like we sort of had to crossover But the other thing is that he his job job was he was a sales rep for For companies like Sony Panasonic and others that made closer television surveillance equipment so our house was full of dummy surveillance equipment or or surveillance equipment that wasn't in use and so I had a real a close view of how that technology worked and what the trends were in that technology. And what the what the the what what that people were looking for out of it. And so when I hear about stuff like a Google homer or an echo or a an Alexa whatever you know whatever it is this month or whatever it is this season you know my immediate thought is. Oh Okay so so a thing listening device planted and planted squarely in your your home that you rely on increasingly for for your day to day life a thing that can knock on you. What a great idea? So so I call on this podcast to talk a lot about cliches stereotypes about all like most of the trips that we find most annoying. So do you have any. I mean I was going to say like since we're on the subject of identity An APP particularly kind of like talking about surveillance and people's People's Images online do you have any Like really pet peeves about trump's the continually really crop up in sci-fi that you'd like to see retired well one thing that we talked about We had a long conversation about this In the orphan black back sort of pseudo writer's room in our group chat Was the idea that Government surveillance works perfectly and looks it's really shiny and new and smooth and beautiful You know if you watch your average like CBS cop show or your the average Sort of science fiction movie about the NSA or or or you know a thing with the FBI or or whatever or if you look at something like like minority report or or what. Have you the idea you know. Or if you look at like agents of shield or something like there. There's a science fictional idea that that government technology -nology is easy to use worked perfectly and is beautiful and that is not the case The the deep missile scare that happened in Hawaii for example where where the people of Roy thought that they were the victims of a nuclear attack because of a false alarm that went out. That false alarm mhm went out because the interface that was used during the the drill. It is so old and so- Janke so decrepit and so So basic sick that it was an easy mistake to make from the interface design perspective from the from the user interface perspective and that is the case more often often than not with government systems. I think that people don't understand that all of those. You know technologies go out to tender. They go out for PS and and the winning. RFP's the thing that promises the most for the least money you know and and that's what budget cuts do and that's for all governments that's not the US that's not Canada. That's it's not Britain. It's not Australia. It's it's not China it's it's everywhere and and it's the same in corporate life and actually so this idea that lake that that a that a system that you would be working with Would work perfectly one hundred percent of the time and be smooth and easy to use and also also gorgeous is is ally in. It's one of the things that I really wish we'd get retired or I really wish that the opposite would get experimented with as a as as a fictional trope because it so it's the the opposite is so much more the case and has a lot more storytelling potential. As far as I'm concerned one. That always gets me is the whole zooming in on images and you're like Kay zoom in its old pixelated but then somehow yo computer you too magically just makes it super hi Rez. Yeah from not having those pixels already it just makes it up like how does that work. Well what's funny. Is that like enhance hance. That sort of like you know. The the the the blade runner enhanced function Is something that you know is something I've I've heard lots of people who work in in audiovisual technology is sort of rail against for a very long time. And what's funny is that there are Developers working hang on in photo enhancing technologies now that want to make that real but they need. They're using machine learning to do it and it's really really about a machine. A machine learning algorithm predicting. What else is in the photo based on other information and and it's not about like what the camera actually saw? It's what is predictable based on the other context clues in the image and and and it's it's almost sort of like looking into the dream of what the image is not necessarily. What's actually there? Yeah so a lot of questions about whether or not that would be admissible evidence reliable reliable in any in any way shape or form. Yeah Yeah I mean the other thing for me is a lot of things about machine learning coming and algorithms and all. This kind of thing is that a lot of sci-fi doesn't look at the fact that your data is only as good as what you put in right and you know a lot of these studies going about how if you put racist information into the Algorithm. What you'RE GONNA get out is like racist behavior of the machines and that's something? I don't really think I've seen much offense I fi- which I think would be a nice thing to explore he. I think that I think Angelov. More people are becoming aware of that fact that sort of garbage in garbage out counts for for these systems as well and we had this sort of vision and I was one of these people. I believe that the technology could in theory be neutral and and and then every study proved me wrong like every study sort of proved that that idea wrong that like the the biases of the Creator are replicated in the creation. And that's something that. Has You know that science fiction. Only we've talked about a lot in terms of a story like Frankenstein story about creating artificial intelligence that what we create you know we. We are flawed and when we create in our own image we we we create flawed things. And and that's the problem you know we are. We are not designing technology. That is better than us were. We're designing technology that that is meant to replace or disintermediated human beings so that we don't have to pay for human beings and it's doing a worse job. Yes what a positive note. Just picking up on because we've been talking about an cliches and we've been talking about things that we kind of tired of seeing in In the genre since we've been talking oh he might open black and we'll be talking about working within a pre existing franchise pre existing world Do you find it. It's harder to avoid cliches when you're working in structure that at a world has already been established. I mean because we if we're we're writers we kind of becoming aware of cliches becoming aware where stereotypes and we want to set out to create a world where we can kind of avoid these things happening but obviously when you've got pre existing material you have to work with this. I mean. Is it harder to avoid cliches. Do you have to feel like you have to be aware of the more There was there a couple couple of things like there. There are a couple of answers to that question. Like one is that You WanNa avoid cliches generally and there's also like at the level of pros you WanNa WanNa you know you sort of want to eliminate as many cliches as possible at the prosaic level like in the writing you know you never WanNa have the dark and stormy night you know stuff like that But in terms of create like working with someone else's characters there is a point at which to be in character. You have to kind of be cliche for that character. You have to sort of lean in to the moments where they are most themselves where they become almost a parody of themselves solves. You know you you have to lean into Two moments where you know for example Cosima goes on a digression about science. or where are you know where allison is talking about. You know the other MOMS in her neighborhood or or something like that You have to kind of lean into those moments and and take advantage manage of them to sort of prove that you've done your homework and prove that you know these characters are still the same people that you know would love So there's there's a little bit where the cliche can almost benefit you but you can't use it too much. You can't go overboard with a and it won't move the story along. You can only do it in a way that moves the story right and and so you WanNa be aware of of moments that were you might be being. You know a little bit overboard order or were you might be taking too much license so so there there. Were you know we. I'm trying to think of of an example So okay one of my favorite moments in my chapter which is a chapter five of orphan. Black the next chapter there's There's a moment where there's an interloper are In in the midst of the clones and this interloper is another clone. She's an undiscovered American clone. which I started calling the Americans but the the interloper then does a very orphan black thing and she dresses like one of the sisters? She dresses dresses like Cosima and she uses that infiltrate casinos home and she and Sarah have a conversation where she is pretending to be. COSIMA and Sarah is pretending to go along with it and the conversation that they have sort of like then uses a bunch of cliches about the sisters to prove that she isn't who she saying who she is. But it's something that only someone that is something that only someone who knew and loved these characters would understand and it's a thing that I got asked about actually recently That someone asked me about with regard to that chapter is like well. How does Sarah know that this person is is lying and and how they how does how did she sort of get out of that moment and it's and it was about whether or not these women are being in character? That's really interesting like to think that you can use cliches to enhance kind of character development and particularly for people who are familiar with those characters and actually cliche becomes remote in that. I mean I feel like it's become a dirty word and and I understand. Why is it that he would because it can get very tiresome but then cliches cliches? Because they're true as well you know I I think of them almost as like tropes There are certain tropes that work there are certain. You know whether whether you're thinking about TV tropes are or like okay so if you go to a Oh three if you go to archive of our own you look at a bunch of fan fiction you're gonNA find like content tags that are tropes right and and and those are incredibly well targeted tags that tell people so much about what the story is going to contain without giving giving anything away necessarily In terms of the minor gestures of the story but they are micro targeted to their audience in a way that that would would make facebook jealous in a way that makes act that would make Amazon. More importantly jealous. They wish that they had that kind of of Komo tagging in terms of of of getting it an audience and and so when I think about you know the stuff that we take advantage of in orphan black like like a clone dressing is another clone is something that happened multiple times on the show. And that you don't want to do too often because then it sort of cheapens it but you know if it's orphan black it it's going to happen right if you're orphan black then you're gonNa have close dressing as other clones period the end you know you're gonNa have a moment where sir loses her cool. You know you're GonNa have a moment where where Cosima sort of goes off on this digression and In terms of Science Hansen she'd text attack out of the thing right. That's going to happen because it's orphan black and it was a real joy to to do those moments. What's it was a real joy to sort of enter that tradition and that's how I approach it was like I was entering a tradition in which these things happened within the story and and it was less about police say and more about the sisters being who they are to each other and never really compromising their love for each other other or the the battles that they had fought and won Never really trying to undo any of the the character growth that they had already been through in the show and and really only adding to the to the growth that they were that they were sort of undergoing as human beings and as a family. Yeah I I love from. How just the idea that Sarah will like lose her shit at some point because yes Sarah will shit like yeah the often black? I just loved because they will ole such interesting varied female characters but they will also oh so believable and real to me and believably. I guess you know the whole nature nurture thing and and seeing that they were the same person but they were also completely different people and that was really interesting. I think that that's something that is so true about families in in general right that when you get a big family together you're gonNA see the corners of them right. You're going to see like how how different they are to each other. But you know if you spend enough time with them. You're going to see the similarities as well. You're gonNA notice like after a while after you spend enough time with these people you're going to notice that like okay. Certain things are the same and it's not just the looks at its its values. It's the same inside joke. It's it's something like that. There is something that Unites People over you know sometimes over great distances or great over time or or what have you like. I worked in a joke in in that initial chapter dern in chapter five about the patchy bit of skin between their eyebrows. Because there's a there's an episode very early on in the show where Allison says something like. Do you get that weird dry skin between your eyebrows. It's it's just something that had always stuck with me as a really wonderful line in terms of how these women related to each other that I had to put it in and and it was. It's just there it's just a it's a it's a little thing that like even when you're in a fight with a family member or even when you're like really when you are not getting along when you're very different people there are moments that you find sort of Elisha per you find and Commonality or or something like that they can really unite you in those tense moments and I think that the show was really good about about Sort of bringing being that forward and and it really becomes a show about a family And we and I really wanted to preserve that there were a lot of qualities about the show. Oh that I I really wanted to preserve because they were often things that the showed that that showed that orphan black did that. You know other other television was not doing at the time like for example Like Alison and Donny have a really sex positive relationship for example like they have a very sexy relationship despite being in suburbia raising. Two kids like you know being very otherwise be very boring people aside from the cloning and the you know the people in their garage rush and and so they you know I really wanted to preserve that and there's a moment in which in which I do and and so oh I know Like I think it is in chapter five in chapter five. I open it with Talking about delcine buying underwear that she knows Cosima well like right and very rarely. Do you get that on on. TV in any country even Canada and and so I wanted to preserve those aspects of their relationship and and without making it exploitative or or or to titillating or or what have you So I there were things that that the show was already doing that. I just wanted to keep doing really it. It does give women Far More to do than a lot of TV. I've seen has done. It was really refreshing for me when I watched that to see so many women you know how you kind of get a lot of shows will have like the smart one or the rebel one. Aw Aw uptight one or whatever but this one had all of them and you know women were allowed to be any of these stereotypes that you could possibly imagine and we were allowed to be absolutely anything we wanted to be in this shy yet and sometimes within the same role right. I mean I think that you know Alison is very uptight. But she's he's so clever. She is so clever and can and can do anything at a moment's notice she so capable And and Dan Sarah is so rebellious but also so conservative in some of her leanings. Right like is so you know she she. She's rebellious mostly because she wants her own way. And and and stuff so there are there. Are The show lake sort of left room in these characters for contradiction and and and for flaws and really built a lot of storytelling potential into those flaws and and gave it gave gave them sorta room to breathe. And and that's what I really enjoyed and I think that there's a thing you know where these women got to look at each other in this becomes something in something very important in the next in the next chapter in the the story that we're telling about looking at the different directions that all of these women wint in their lives that they they are in theory the same person but the directions that shows in life are so different you know not. Just sort of their circumstances arkham stances. You know what they did with. Their circumstances are very different and I think as women you know. There's a lot of pressure to sort of choose a life direction really early and and in so doing choose that as an identity like Oh. I'm this Onuma I'm I'm a mom I'M A. I'm a stay at home mom. I am a working mom. I'm a I'm not a mom I'm you know or I am. I am academic and that's all I am. I am an artist or I'm You know whatever and and that's just not how people live their lives anymore. Not just because we have longer life spans than our ancestors did although that Demographically is changing But but because you know that's not how the economy works any longer. You have to put on multiple identities in order to arrive and I think that or from like was very real about that in a metaphorical. Kind of way that you do have to put on different costumes. You do have to be multiple people people at the same time in order to just get by. Yeah I feel like that every day exactly right. I mean you wear so many hats like anything. That's the thing saying that. It was very honest about in terms of women's experiences. There were a lot of things that it was honest about. But but the wearing of many hats as a metaphor for like the everyday experience of women or people who identify as women. There are already so many identities that you have to put on. There are already so many hats you have to wear roles. You have to play the fact that you know for these clones. They all look alike but but when we live in a society that treats women the same no matter that treats women as sort of a commodity. Anyway you know it really got to liberalise the commodification and liberalize that experience of being treated ah sort of a a product and You know it really dug into that. I thought and it was. That's one of the reasons that I enjoyed it so much. So speaking like a little bow male characters in this context the series made a point of having you know often. Having having Mayo characters disenfranchised to comment on how women in a usually disenfranchised in popular television. How how do you hope to present men in the audio cereal? Do you approach these characters differently than how you might. Otherwise you know in other writing work I tend to really enjoy writing men I really for a long time. I wrote male I I think I wrote male characters better than I wrote female characters. I was better in writing them for a long time. And now I think I'm kind of about equal I think my I had to kind of level up before I could write women. Effectively effectively for other people It took a lot of training. I guess is how put Men when I was starting out men were just easier for for some reason. Well and and I'm sure people have the exact opposite experience or or what have you And and so for this we really thought about so Not just who the good guys are but what does it mean to be a good guy you know not not just a nice guy you know. TM But you know who what does it mean to be a good guy who is a good is you know why is Danica. Good guy you know an end because he said a huge ERC within the story right and and has had has really come through on the other side of it to be a truly supportive partner in in a way that he that he was not at the beginning of the show. And how do we continue that relationship and you know with art you know how do we. How do we let this guy grow in his relationship to these women based on the fact that he lost someone who is so important to him You know at the at the start the story and what does it mean to be an ally In that kind of story without being sort of a knight in shining armor do we leave room room for these men to be vulnerable to and I think that's you know I think that's one of the challenges that I wish television sort of you know go on. I wish that's one of the challenges that they would take. You know like we. We've had an entire decade of of Anti Heroes Great Anti Heroes. You know Walter Alter Way Don draper basically every man that's been on an AMC show We've had a great decade of of wonderful well written well wrought Anti Heroes on television but we have far fewer like truly vulnerable men like the and. I think that we're getting better about. I think television is getting getting better about that You have a real so you have like the caricatures of that on a show like mind hunter where you know. We're holding is the person dealing with a with the the revelation of his mental illness and and where attention is sort of trying to hold up this this possibly outdated idea of masculinity skill entity and not having room for his own vulnerability within an not leaving room for vulnerability with an for his in his partner and an and stuff. So it's you're getting like I think television is sort of digging in to those things now but you know it's A. It's a thing that I wish we saw more of for sure. It was interesting when you brought up Donna. Because I loved that Donnie became. I'm really quite strong character from someone who was at first. You thought. Oh it's kind of buying into the talks masculinity idea. He's not the The Stud that he should be he isn't as strong as a man should bay but then actually it kind of flips out on his head and it was a really interesting portrayal of a genuinely interesting and strong and capable male character who grew throughout the series and for someone who do this kind of setup as the kind of a patsy. The Butt of the joke became quite a nuanced character. And I really love often black for doing that. Well Yeah I think Danica so interesting because for me all of the clones come from different shows like orphan. Black is the show where there's there's for almost like each clone has rhone genre right And Allison is clearly on a Sitcom set set in suburbia. Allison is an is in a three camera Sitcom where she is the smoking hot wife and her husband is this. Is this doughy guy by Who is always married to a smoking? Hot Wife on a on a Sitcom right like she's this gorgeous lady and he's Jim Belushi up you know like she like exist the show that she's on and her show was running quite well until she discovered that she was a clone. She was a very successful sitcom mom until she discovered over that she was a clown right and in that way. The show is almost about the nature of television. It's all It's almost sort of Meta fictional commentary. Because you know Sarah was on this this show about being gripped. Her and and Cosima was already kind of on a science fiction. Show in a in a way in Helena was on this action. Show about conspiracies and secret societies in and whatever and they were all on their sort of individual shows until they got sort of sandwiched in to this one show. Oh that was all those things at the same time. And and so for a character lake. Donnie he starts out in a very clear shade place you know. Speaking of cliches he starts. It's out in a really cliche place. He is that that husband on that Sitcom. He's a comic foil. He's the guy who's constantly screwing up while his his rockstar. Wife Saves the day like episode episode episode. That's what happens. And then he starts becoming an agent in his own life and not being satisfied with that that law for himself so often black has touched on issues of identity. Motherhood Equality Female Autonomy Tony Reproductive rights the ethics of scientific research on quite a lot more. So what has the franchise yet to touch on you. You would really really love to look at all the additionally you'd like to explore in your own work. I think it would be really interesting if the show like. This is very biased. Answer but I think it would be really interesting now for the show to sort of go into its own Canadianness at a time when You know it's the BBC America show and it's shot in Canada and it's written by Canadians and performed by Hinz and and it's hugely popular in America. And so it's so it's big co-production and it takes place in this sort of you've weird. Limo state where Canadians are aware. Torontonians are aware that it's in Toronto. There are references to Toronto. It shows Canadian money When they show cash being exchanged its Canadian? Money Things like that but it does you know. Toronto plays everything right. Toronto Oh has been New York. It's been Boston it's been It's it's been Gotham city. It's been It's been city other cities in various comic book movies. It's been fictional places so I would really like the show sort of dig into its own Canadianness and sort of dig into what that means and. I think that we do do that in the next chapter. I think we like you know we. We spent a lot of time talking about Sort of what was legal in Canada. And what wasn't and end and how things would unfold how how certain things would unfold Logistically and like even like how far away certain locations were from each other and how long how long it would take to get to certain places like it was it was pretty. I WANNA say pretty deeply research I'm sure that there there are things that we missed and or did wrong. Just flat out wrong but But we we really tried to be true to the location and I think that I would like in a show about identity. I would really like the that exploration to talk about like you know so the about a country in which the joke is as Canadian as possible under the circumstances and and so I think that Um I'm to explore a place that has that is that tries very hard to include to be inclusive. Well making serious mistakes and doing so at the same time. I think that that would be really interesting especially now I think a lot of people are so worn worn out of American and British news that they would love the show. Set somewhere else. Yeah Yeah Yeah I'm going to cling onto that. As being the reason I liked grassy and not just because I like silly television but hey degrassi did talk about how how how it hold the Canadians. We're dealing with taking in refugees from Syria. I'm sorry yeah why not. It's it's one one of the things that I was excited to. I was really excited to write about places that I had been. I was really excited about to enter. Talk about how much I love Toronto because his I really love living here and so I was happy to include lots and lots of Toronto and jokes as sort of little Easter eggs within within my work it's been awesome having your own madeline but before you go. Do you want to just tell us a little bit about Your Book Company Town. Anything Ashley you've been working on I would say My latest novel is company town which is a murder mystery. Set on an oil rig. Five hundred kilometers northeast of Newfoundland and it's it takes place in the near future dystopian environment Involving a serial killer color from the future and An a an deeply gothic family that buys an entire city. Okay that's sounds very interesting. I really like the family. That dot bison intensity that's amazing you know they're they're fun bunch. They're fun bunch. Thank you so much for joining us and thank thank you so much for joining us. Madeline is amazing. I think we've touched on enormous amounts tonight and I think it's safe to say that from black is a really awesome show. And if you haven't watched it then I had listened to the new serial than I'm ghetto not right away breaking the Gloss Lipa is written and produced by Megan Lee Eh Charlotte bond and lacey handsome. Please help us spread the word subscribe and leave a review on your preferred podcast platform. We want to hear from you. Let let us know what you would like to hear on the next episode of breaking the Gloss Lipa.

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48. Being There (1979)

Full Cast And Crew

1:18:12 hr | 1 year ago

48. Being There (1979)

"My fellow americans distinguished guests loyal listeners super fans and followers new listeners returning listeners who stopped listening for a couple of weeks because of what i said about local hero and those of you can't figure out how to turn off your podcast players. It is my great honor honor. No not honor honor to introduce to you on this auspicious day fifty six day after an actual anniversary adversary of something this newest episode of full cast and crew. We've made a lot of promises year this podcast chest about stitches and time saving nine about picking up after ourselves and about surfing a films full cast and crew section of its i._m._d._b. Page to mine it for thoughtful full humorous and considered content and while we may not have kept all of those promises or even any of them. I'm looking at a pair of socks on the floor right. Now i am reminded of for quote from the protagonist of this week's film a film which we discussed a little while ago but are only releasing now because half of us are on vacation in the garden growth both has its seasons i come spring and summer but then we have fall and winter and then we get spring-summer again well it might not mean anything and it certainly doesn't make sense with what i said before but by gum it should be a good hint as to the movie we'll be discussing today so put the hand over your heart one over your eyes and if you have any hands left over your ears as we discuss hal ashby's nineteen seventy-nine political satire which like most satires from before the trump era now seems somewhat tame compared to our current off brand low rent fascism curious nightmare of broken republic being there it i think less personal choice for humans until proven otherwise this is a good thing wow so you're going on record as advocating to tala -tarian i am for now until until we can prove that we can handle things like democracy right capitalism some free to hire being taken away from us until you until you guys you learn how to behave again. Yeah not getting this democracy discipline. My seven seven year old. We have a seven year old is president and if we're gonna act like that then you don't get to have your toys. You don't get to do the things you like to do well. I know you hit record. Just just as i started. I just wanted to make sure that ambling about side discontent. I call it. Leverage will democracy. It's got it's up here of democracy. This is full cast and crew this week. We are talking about nineteen seventy nine things. I almost don't even know what to describe it as because it's so many things satire how about this how about a well acted intelligent human scaled drama. I i saw that relisted on the m._v._p. A very good description is hard though to describe the good hal ashby movies because i was trying to think of another example and maybe you can think of what now of film that is as biting social satire but is also as warm and human and touching. I think that's why i had difficulty thinking of it as a satire and also wondering what exactly it's satirizing satirizing the entire american political and commercial corporate life it seems more than that and i think of satire is is usually being a little bit more focused on here's this one thing networking sample and there are elements of it but it becomes changed or eleven by the heart by i the fairy tale. I think it's pretty safe to say that we're but we both liked this movie. Yes i love this guy. I've always loved this movie. It's a celebration of simplicity city then the cliches. I mean to say them here. They sound as cliche as they are. Yeah however the way that they're portrayed in the movie everyone's machen nations. Everyone's armor armor that they've put on to get through their relationship. Their job is pierced not through cleverness. It's pierced through the other uncorruptible simplicity of chance and his inability to answer any question other than completely literally the way that you've just explained it could run the risk in lesser hands of becoming coming trickling. I think the idea of a holy fool somebody who's so simple. It's very patronizing and this movie is not that and i think part of it is because he is not totally incorruptible because of television to just back up one second for those of you who haven't read the book that is based on or seen the movie. It's the back story of how donald trump became president. This spoil that if donald trump had more cianci gardner world would be a much better place yeah because this guy he doesn't get riled. He doesn't get angry he doesn't he does like to watch in complain. He does like to watch t._v. It starts you have a man wakes up. He's a gardener is going. Nobody's day you sort of. Don't know we can explain to us in this. We need to do that premise at the familiar with one of the greatest films of all time you have a very allies estimates of our audience i was you know we're going to go frame by frame and do know this was shot. At twenty. Four frames per second man wakes up so he might be a normal person and then you find out. He has never left his house. His only contact with the outside world has been television. He's a gardener in this house run by an old man. You never learn. The man's name was just died. It's in washington d._c. In what used to be a prosperous area and now's rundown and he walks out and then enters into the world and through his simplicity of becomes a very influential windchill member of the political class let site a few more details or what makes the movie the movie hal ashby peter sellars jersey kozinski and and bob jones who was the screenwriter interesting and that's who you would allow absolutely and the entire cast chris both watched the criterion edition what's good what's it called criterion collection collection which includes a really interesting forty five minute making of which was really interesting. I really love the producer. That was my favorite part of getting getting a little spilling all the tea all the tea. I loved caleb l. Bob jones and the editor can't remember his name. Let's see <hes> edited by don don zimmerman yeah anyway. It had the feeling now that we've done a bunch of these. I think he can tell when you're watching making of documentaries or listening to people talk about their experience making the movies you can kind of tell when they got the lightning in the bottle and this sounds like one of those sets even when you have someone like hal ashby who was on a descent after this point point new an unfortunate drug and alcohol problem that derailed his career for some years and yet peter sellers who sounded like as he was trying to do this movie was essentially unemployable in in hollywood because he was considered such pain in the ass in the studio did not want to work with him and everyone told ashby and bob jones like you're crazy to go down this road because he's a very dark and tortured a person for all of the n._p._s. On death's door he died about a year about a year later. Did you know that the inscription on his tombstone is life is a state of mind on ben's. John batchelor liam liam and those are also peter sellars own gravestone. You know it's funny. How asked me somebody whose work. I don't know particularly well. I've seen a few things. I think i've probably seen probably his best thing maude. If seen this shampoo i haven't seen chiampou. I would like to see these honestly. Maybe it's just this one but i've read about him and <hes> the landlord. I was thinking of his first movie. He is a very confident filmmaker. He seems to have a point of view and yet at the same time reading about commute very temperamental and in his own way and his background is being an editor and i don't know if you listened. There was also an interview with him at a._f._i. That was on that. I didn't get to hear that as with anything that would probably be more exciting to actually be there but some of it was interesting for a guy who was something of a hippie part of that involved him getting weirder and weirder and more into new both drugs and mysticism. You happens man. You know the lure of it despite that he is very articulate about he's what he's doing and almost conservative in the way that he would talk to students about both the business in about baking about having to be rigorous. You can't rush things you try different things. That was one of the the things besides his <hes> difficulties because of drugs he was very slow because constantly as an editor himself he would want to edit and re edit and try things shift. If things all the time and in listen to that interview you could hear that kind of passion and yet that passion is belied. I think when you watch it it seems almost effortless with with this movie more so than the landlord because it has woolly element it does seem rather like a chance a little bit distanced and simple not simplistic but yeah in a way the still waters runs deep sort of way and there's somebody currents in this movie that i wonder what did grab how ashby what did he want want to say because it's very different than than what jersey kaczynski might have wanted to say what bob jones might have wanted to say and what peter sellers who had been lobbying this role well and have this movie made for many years prior to it happening then you have these certainly those top three of sellers ski and ashby on the cusp of real darkness darkness sort of meeting at some place to find this thing of real beauty and depth but not an uncomplicated beauty. I think the thing that they found together was bob. Jones script jersey had written the screenplay himself based on his novel and at least in the making of documentary entry. The producer tells a pretty interesting story about these versions of the script that each one was sort of successively less good kind of going down a jersey ask spiral and he would be adding more correct and adding sort of weird or things and chance would find a place. I think they mentioned a labor riot and have you right so yeah. Part of reasonable want us down that is because jersey was a polish immigrant probably my parents generation close to and i just think of like my uncles and people people that i know from that generation and the fear of communism that sometimes can breed a certain reactionary element eastern europeans were big supporters of like reagan <hes> <hes> and to this day of rats and trump's support my family and reading about him and actually listen to a couple of interviews. It doesn't seem like that is there but i do wonder if the more he was trying to add to wait it was because you know he loved the united states and loved the freedom that it gave him over his life and so wanting to pack more in to the well. I think to put chance in no scenarios like you're talking about a labor rally or what have you you have this blank really that you can use as a mirror to reflect whatever you want whatever societal or cultural statement you wanna make one of the things i think is interesting when we do these even movie that you know and love like i've seen it many many times but it wasn't until i watched the criterion version into making of that. Oh you realize what you think you're looking at the credits. It's a hal ashby film screenplay by jersey kaczynski. Well that's not actually true is actually the opposite of true which is so ironic roenick in a movie so devoted to truth a filmmaker devoted to human truth and a writer in jersey. Although if you read about jersey and you know anything about relationships the the truth is a little squirrelly and wigley. It's a very compelling part of the story when the producer is talking about how it came time for him as the producer to submit the credits and he <music> said screenplay by bob jones based on the book by jersey kozinski and jerseys a._n._c. said no that's my screenplay and the producers said jersey you can't yeah bob jones wrote that and he just wouldn't hear of it and it went to arbitration and even he was shocked that bob jones lost jersey was awarded the sole screenplay credit is very moving to hear bob jones in the documentary say this really affected his career ashby. He was an editor primarily trying to transition into writing had had some success with kiro coming home and which he was like that's not me. I'm not a vietnam war gossip. That's all he kept yeah. Vietnam war script and this would have completely changed his career career such a jersey kaczynski ask irony but it doesn't really have any bearing on the experience of watching the movie which that simplicity which caleb talked quite a bit about in in terms of the framing the sameness of the shots and have action take place within a frame and the camera is not moving excessively gives it that quality of watching watching people interact in opulent surroundings which are just gorgeous photographed and chance i felt like i just want to turn the t._v. Off he could do so much more than watch tv but he's being corrupted and corroded by but he's also being taught by it. This is where we learn we learn from an alternative reality that has nothing to do with the day to day and everybody's interaction in the movie even people that you like and this is one of the subtleties i think is great. Even people you like melvyn douglas and shirley maclaine. They're complicated marriage. Yeah presented realistically. He knows he's an elderly man about to die and she's much younger and still vibrant and encourages her to have this romance with chance jack warden as the president none of them can really be honest with each other in the way they find chance show shockingly honest because they live in the world because he doesn't live in the world. He's not full of shit and profound point. Wow deep isn't it. I'm gonna show a little known but i hit it on the head but maybe well. I just wanted to muddle it a little bit because <hes> you know you mean mullet over. You didn't want to muddle it. No i do want to muddle it. I like muddled like wrinkles. You keep calling calling chance chance incorruptible and i can't help but think that he's not wholly incorrupt you do have this strange the thing that he often does where he's watching something and he will imitate it as he's watching it. This becomes how he interacts with people so he reflects almost like a television now that i'm thinking about it what people want to see most of the conversations even his very name which turns into chauncey gardiner is because someone is. Here's the simple things that he is saying that that everybody reads something into. It's not a holy man dispensing wisdom. This is literally all he knows. It's very good that we have the character of louise. Yes who is the made in the house. Radio man lived through it brought up. I love this cutter. That's a great c- cut away of her. She's black entertainer retirement. Home is some plants do well in the sun and others grow better in the shade sounds as if we need a lot of gardening we certainly do expect sure a white man's world in america. These possibly be in one part the other race set boy since he was the size of a piston of the gardner and i'll say right now he never learned to read and right now the rains tall areas with rice pudding between these it is the response response short changed by the lord and dumb jackass look at him now in the shade over. Yes answer all you got to be white in america to get whatever you are got great because here he stays on d._v._d.'s poised to be president and she knows as you said that yeah there's mush for brains. That's what keeps it from being the <unk> versions movie. He's not dropping pearls of wisdom. It's that the culture is so decided that the simplicity of what he saying strikes people as the deep and profound but it's not him being simple. It's like literally all i know and this is why you can't imagine anyone playing this role other than peterson the layers beneath the liberalness and the simplicity that's why he was a comedic genius that was also trying to think is there someone else who's both such a cerebral comedic actor and brilliant physical after i tried thinking about a similar thing and i wonder if like robin williams would almost be the closest but does he have the cerebral part the way i i mean we're talking about a guy who played clue but i mean cerebral in that. There's a cleverness and intelligence and there's sophistication. They're trying to think if i've been moved by robin williams some of you times. He did do dramatic stuff and i think he tried to bridge king. I remember being very moved by fisher. King actually really liked the i s. I'm in data again. He had a small part was sort of an odd. He's in that yeah. We're rana's investigating something that somebody gets a clue from he. Some guy like works in a fish store. Do you think of robin williams is a physical comedian. I don't think of him doing physical comedy. Do you know i think of like old stand up or morgan mindy. He's a nice meals. Did you read the washington in post profile of chevy chase kind of this late career opportunity to assess himself and it includes a lot of fond reminiscence of chevy from back in the day. There's a saturday night live sketch from his era where it's about childproof caps on drug bottles. I think is lorraine. Newman recounts how the shot was just chevy's hands. You've never heard him or saw him because it was a voice over about these childproof caps on drug bottles and the joke is you just can't open them regardless of whether you have a blow torch or pick axe or or whatever and she said he's just getting laughs with his hands and that's how great a physical comedian he was. I think of robin williams and that same way. I think robin williams is anti and all cerebral. I don't know if i think of him as a physical clown like mrs doubtfire. You're sure you john john carpenter carbon. Thanks for helping me out there chris jesus christ. If you're really lifeline drowning man christian chris chandler looks god. You don't get to see death that often you know when i look across you like so obviously searching throw me something something just i didn't have it route. Remember john famous john will instead. It's just silence. The sound of silence paul simon friend of chevy chase's the quality of the selection of the television clips which for two people in the business we're in didn't really hit me until i was watching caleb. Dell talk about the the technical difficulties in nineteen seventy nine of filming those someone had to choose every single one of those and not only that but since they chose not to film green screen and ask the actor to pretend to be acting against something they wanted to do it in real time so that a v._h._s. or other recording machine was actually feeding this content into real televisions gains and that meant twenty four frame per second video clip to sink it up with the film camera so when you think about that layer of work. It's really quite amazing. The thing that struck me i was just thinking of. I got to be expensive to clear all that stuff that really yeah. That was my thought like this is the divide that you and hi. This is on the business i go. I don't care just want that clip. You have to go and you're not yet it for me but yes. I thought i thought that was fascinating to hear him. Talk about that. Any makes such a difference. It's a character television is a character and his show adequately represented with depth and variety and arguably the weakest television moments are the ones that couldn't be pulled from actual pre existing content like for example when they had to make the talk show that he goes on like like. I don't feel like he would ever be the host of late night. Talk show. I don't know i i only disagree because i was watching some of the stuff in the criterion collection peter sellers on australian as as well as dick cabinet to cabinet <hes> interviewing jersey kozinski and that guy seems sort of <hes> of that ilk yes that was a groovy cabinet kaczynski the interview it was really it was great so reading about jersey kozinski because of all the talk of plagiarism and this and that i didn't like him from reading on wikipedia and from the anecdote showed about stealing the credit so i was ordered possibly fabricating the novel that he passes like story but i'll tell you in the interview with dick habits. Are you liked him a lot. Yeah i think we agree charm. He did have charm not that those things didn't come up but he was addressing them. From a different point of view this idea of i think it's the painted bird yeah this question of is it autobiographical he sort of talked about that a little bit and in a way that i thought was nuanced because he's a novelist bringing parts of his life into his novels a sort of what you do and yet as you would say these are novels. These are not sure non fiction while i think that's probably a literary thing that was going through at the moment. Perhaps that wouldn't be quite such a thing now. I guess that's when we went through it again. We'll hadn't with people putting you know like james frye or what have you james frye one. This has already happened. So these discussions have happened so true. You can't plead ignorance and can't plead you complete which took a gun even back then literature been around a long time. I guess awesome americans invented gatsby okay twenty four hundred fifteen years. Yeah i mean i guess the evolution of writing we would be right at that point when jersey was doing in this stuff so he was just coming along with that. That's my phone ringing someone else near me. I'm sure it's just something about cavenaugh withdrawing or trump resigning. It's my wife telling you about cavenaugh withdrawing hi. Hello mr choose pranking you full cast and crew is brought brought to you by out of jack's mind a new comedy short video series from jackpot nick co writer and director of the sony pictures feature film space station seventy six and current recurring guest on grace and franky and sea nation out of jack's mind likened follow at chocolate comedy on facebook or chuck cler dot com chocolate original comedy delivered daily. Let's talk the cast. I realized we should've called this. Damn podcast cast the david clinton story because my god david clinton is in this is his third appearance. This is our first full cast and crew hat trick back that david clendenin boys he found. Is there anything he can't do. My appreciation and the mystery deepens the more. I see i'm thinking to myself. The amazing thing is it's both a role that anyone could do. It's a role that performs a function. It's walking explication yeah right. That's the only thing this role does hello hello. We thought we heard something. I'm thomas franklin thomas. I'm chance the guts august yes of course mr chan's. This is ms hayes chance. I'm very pleased to meet as you single again so we're with franklin. Jennings roberts the law firm handling the estate the brand yes thomas. I understand single granny. Are you waiting for someone an appointment mike and do this do. We will bring me my lunch all kidding aside mr chance. May i ask in just what you're doing here. I live here about everything yet. It's also almost impossible to think of anyone but david clinton doing this this role and just eighty pri eighties but like we're in the eighties in terms of being seventy nine i just i'm mystified by how useful david clinton is it is. It's one of those things where we talked about david clinton in general or when we talk about anthony scher in <hes> superman to it shows you have to be bold. Yeah apart on the page is one think but to really create a whole character around. It just made it so much more you realize it was going to end with david clinton's sitting in this chair. I can't wait like it has to. I just laughed out loud last night knowing that he's in the movie where my mind but not even in my mind these are three totally distinct actors actors in the three movies that he's appeared to date and the time seventy nine the thing is in eighty two. There was a scene between he and richard dice all right. I was thinking again <unk>. Are they talking about hey. Did you hear about this thing. John carpenter's doing like did you get an offer was eighty two and before the light sleeper but in each case there's enough of a time difference. That's like three different actors because he ages into something but it doesn't feel like in older hugh grant in paddington. He was great and then it's like oh. Here's this young leading man has moved into a different life that builds on that whereas with david clendenin wherever he is he's the appropriate age for whatever like david clinton start art out as like. I'm going to be a young leading man. I don't know like i saw carolina. Go back to ease in the paper chase with timothy bottoms and john houseman seems seems like his first movie role but be willing to bet he's not formed as the david clinton persona that we know from these move. I guess i put you were saying that. There's not much of a persona. All i think they're in me. It's more like he's such a good actor. He doesn't disappear. It's always david clinton. That's what are you okay. He's always got a david clinton thing but you're totally different is that it's just like it's alive. It's real but this character is very very different from the character plays in light sleeper and certainly very different than the character he played in the thing like they are so disparate in terms of personality by the similarity is the humor is something that's always present so in this one. He's oily eighties yuppie lawyer right but he still has comedic charm. It adds something. He's not just a villainous kind of lawyer. He has a funny thing into him. In the same way that the character i forget each time seeing the movie that there's this whole subplot of trying to figure out who chance is and that is is the protective physician of melvyn. Douglas's character is snooping and trying to get to the bottom and cooperating with investigation into chance but then at the deathbed had seen when he says chances line and means it himself become quite a close friend of us. Haven't you chance yes yes i. I love very much and you really are a gardener aren't you. I am good well until phil. If ben i danced stand. Are we meant to understand. He finally understood. You are just a gardener. You're not here her to scam and take the estate of the world's most wealthy man we don't go back to him and see whether he bought it it just i was a little confused this. I hear what you're saying. Hang in with a lesser filmmaker. It would feel unresolved yeah but no as you put it he understands. You're not here to scam anybody. You're also not a zen master. That'd be like like i mean. What do you mean chris. Don't look your computer for answers. Find them within. I'm jay silently rolling allenby desserts character. Yeah remember that you do this when you by the way. I realized something about myself doing this. I don't think of characters by their name. I think of them by the actor's name like it's occurred to me. You're better at remembering the names of the characters than i am like. I couldn't tell you right now without looking. I couldn't tell you what the name is shirley maclaine characteristic eve yeah. I don't know i think it's weird. I i noticed about myself because they're stars and oftentimes they are booked to be stars and gets depends on the kind of movie that you're watching and stuff melvyn douglas so good you know they considered burt lancaster astor. Who we saw in local hero today ben rand which would have been good that could work. I think even on his own deathbed burt lancaster probably looked very healthy yet. Melvin died it. Has all of these actors is this hal ashby's direction is this how ashby's trust whatever it is that he did there is nothing fussy about even jack warden and but not even jack warden like even jack warden sock yeah <hes> this scene where he is. I listening to chance this is why jack warden is a genus. Yes hello mr president. I mr president. I want you to meet my very dear friend mr chauncey gardiner on television mr president. You look much smaller. I must i warn you that chelsea's not a man bandy words really almost a guy do appreciate discussing elsa frank discussion be seated. Yes i will now. I was wondering if you had a chance your chance to benadryl read my speech the physical thing of him being like are you kidding and he lives he moving good for how i speak to have the wide shot ought to be able to see all of that and allow to happen slowly without focusing in on the hand were cutting. It's fascinating actually leaves so much more mystery because you're watching the the action just watching the actor allowed to live in a moment it makes sort of ambiguous would yank back to richard dice arts thing what he understands is with our lesser filmmaker. Neither would have been like oh. You're not scamming you can stay or all your got mush for brains yes but i think he is understanding chance yes <hes> <hes> chance of circumstance yup just sort of happened this way and what's this knowledge going to help anybody. The great thing about a guy like jack warden who really has one major scene in which is the seen with ben and chance in the library you put jack warden in that scene and the most definitive jack warden thing that he does which is so funny to me. He has those i rolls the acknowledgement that chance holding his hands in the way that chances saw ben hold his friend the president's hand a much more intimate way than the president would expect this guy chance that he's just meant to do and then jack warden tries to tell a joke after chance has delivered his disquisition on spring and summer and fall and winter in the garden will grow and jack warden says that's you know that that that kind of thinking that's precisely what we lack on capitol hill and then he waits because he's the president he's he's used to laughter whether the joke is funny or not in this case the joke is not funny. No one laughs and he does this look at. I've mentioned these movies before for. I really encourage you everyone to see the movie he made right after this move which is used cars which is a bob zemeckis movie russell which is a great little gem movie of the late seventies and of course the verdict he's amazing in the verdict and he's amazing in all the president's men i love the subtlety of jack warden on the movement this stuff with his eyes and his physical presence and he doesn't do it with a line. If i was an actor i probably tend to try to be verbal about everything. Jack warden is so good at knowing doing that. It's more effective to say less yeah christmas thinking yeah you could use. That was actually more thinking that rather like oh. I thought it was your i didn't ask or i'm more like peter sellars. You're saying it's not all about you. I'm saying that jack warden peter sellars share that physicality. It'll take somebody with more patients then i to judge or see how acting styles change and i would think we're probably in a particularly verbal time now yeah. Did you notice scene where or they're walking down. The hall and chance is mimicking benz really short footsteps. Chance and ben are walking down the ornate hallway yet. Ben has his arm around chances shoulders and chances hands are clasping his hands and chance is taking these extremely small steps in order to stay at pace with melvyn douglas which is kind of akin to the other really brilliant subtle physical things that he does i'm thinking of in the initial scene with david clinton and and the other lawyer when they walk into the garage and he adopts a car commercial asks stance on the running board and the window of v._r. Nice car do you drive at mr chas never been in an automobile. You've never been in a car. No i've never been allowed outside of the house such a it's a subtle thing and it makes for such great irony because he's so comfortable komo from having seen it on t._v. I was wondering as an actor i think of him as such a quiet physical presence in every scene in this movie and at the time the controversial controversial use of the outtakes at the end you see the great effort. It takes to be still on film but i was struck that he's so still in this movie in every scene. I could imagine to be almost exhausting. I'm sure to be says it in one of the feature at keep talks about how he came up with the voice in the end i and because peter sellars background ground he started in radio that he builds out from the building which is which is interesting. I wonder that i've heard of anybody else cord his line experiment with the cadence in order to get this very unique chance cadence. There's effort that goes into that and i've talked about both with and with the way he would walk in the pl- acidity in my favorite quote from dolly parton costs a lot of money to look this cheap <hes> so to with this to get to that zen simplicity not that that's the magic gets more <unk> but not yet to that stillness control that honesty whereas where humor can live yeah because you know it's not like he's he's not so lost in the character that he doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly doing right but it does not feel affected. It does not feel like he's going for a laugh. In the way that a lesser comedian actor would that just takes a lot of effort to have everything humming humming and working so perfectly and it takes that amount of effort for the effort to be miserable yeah in the outtake scene which which was great to be reminded that bothered him initially. Did you read that story because you said that it's controversial and i haven't read that when i remember seeing this movie the first time as a kid i remember loving ah in our shows that we work on here. I'm always a big proponent of outtakes. I just love them. It never occurred to me until i read that. This was something he did not like that. It is is a little jarring and it does break the spell of the movie to see him acting as we do but it never bothered me as a kid and i loved seeing a little bit right behind the scenes of something that we had never seen at that point right but he didn't like it he thought it broke the spell of the movie and he continued to believe until he died that it cost him the academy kademi award no real because his dead mother probably told him chris's alluding to the fact that when the producer was talking about doing press i mean crashing and peter said it's in the bag. It's impact don't worry and he said why well. My mother told me he was like your mother's dead and he's like we talk all the time yeah so they actually did in some additional releases of the movie they cut that out and the movie kind of ended they used some static some t._v. Static but in the criterion that we were watching it has the original outtake anywhere he's trying to do the line which is ironically also seen as he's not in the movie that you just watched which i think is kind of an interesting choice for an outtake and it's him breaking up the whole cast and crew but what's amazing about that is the physicality that we're talking about as he breaks up and he laughs and then as they get ready to do the take you can physically see it. He retreats within himself in some way. That's almost spooky. A stillness comes over him him and he delivers the lines and now you're realizing that the cadence of the languages show off he's speaking in stilted cadence that he figured out and he has to do that and he has to be incredibly still and you can see it and it's partly the effort of that is what's cracking everybody up. You know he's a fascinating guy. I know there's been a lot of dark ink spilled bill and a lotta time documentary. I was thinking there was certainly that life and death of peter selection all movable movie based on geoffrey rush who isn't amazing rush himself. I think it would be interesting to see that sort of copy of a copy. I don't know if you haven't seen it. The rap about peter sellars was i think that he would say that he never had <hes>. He doesn't really have much of an identity zone. I guess except for being a jerk yeah but even better <hes> let refined the winning. The other weird interesting character things about peter sellars was complete sycophant for the royal family and high society yeah kind of a snob dude you know his his name is actually henry did not know that you know why they call him. Peter no his parents even though they named him henry they call him peter after his elder brother who was stillborn and so he was given the name hall by like the ghost of his brother and is thought like that's probably why he never developed an identity of his own because he was always hitched to shoe that and he was extremely close to his mother extremely costa his mother unhappy man loved his drink lovely ladies though the lease always love him. If when you're getting smacked around it's probably former wife britt ekland in reference to the two thousand and four movie the film leaves you with the impression that peter sellars was essentially likeable man when in reality he was a monster well not an amicable and yeah and actually i was reading a horrible anecdote another documentary when they were talking about casting chin chin's and he's like don't worry about it. I'm gonna get. I've thought he's going to say so. He went to the gym and he swam. I thought i thought he was going to say he went to the bathroom. Thurman removed a complicated latex neck put onto no he was just really fat and how to shed so he had this removed then apparently when -tated that in it i don't like hearing that antidote because then they cut to some shots of him and i'm looking at that perfect jolla now and i'm going geez one of his daughters. When she saw all being there he asked like how did you choose. I think fifteen maybe yeah. Maybe i think he said you're in no. She said something like i liked. It was really good except you look like a fat little oh man <hes> and he yelled at her throughout never spoke to her again disowned her disowned. Her aren't as well yeah. I mean it's wikipedia so there might be missing. How in march one thousand nine hundred sellers asked his fifteen year old daughter victoria what she thought about being there. She reported later that quote. I said yes. I thought it was great but then i said you looked like a little fat old man he went mad threw his drink over me and told me to get the next plane home his other daughter sarah told sellers her thoughts about the incident and and he sent her a telegram that read after what happened this morning with victoria. I shall be happy if i never hear from you again. I won't tell you what i think of you. It must be obvious goodbye your father. She also wrote all three kids. Out of his will be married like five times bizarrely. Hal ashby was married five times in in a relatively short life. Yeah kinda fascinated by that. I don't my mom was married twice. Which believe me was one time okay. They can't even imagine being in a family where one or more of the parents was married five times. Your concept of what marriage is is much different than what i guess mine would yes yes but it also makes you wonder like so y you can live here. We'll hang out. That's not gonna be. I think they want to have the multiple marriages just optimism optimism. I think this one's gonna no no no. I think the guy is actually going the other way. I think he's actually saying to himself sweet. This is the third one this is gonna last about eighteen months and then. I'm going to be on a four maybe five. I think if you're going to get married five times you're into some kind of cycle that only your may be aware of but i'm also fascinated by like if your wife number three or four or five you really gotta have an inherent belief in the goodness of man will you probably he's gotta be. He's exhausted but you know i'm sure it's also very different about take time right like where you are hal. Ashby brought up mormon brought up in relatively conservative home child of the sixties and all the governors were off but we'll they weren't all off like maybe can't help. You're brought up with a certain understanding. A man just married doing your like. You have to have a wide another together. We're going to get married exactly that. I wonder if if that multiple things that had more to do with that because both he and peter sellers were sort of so unhappy and grasping for things and yeah. I always feel for somebody who you could tell it's it's like i've i've got all these things. I'm trying to reconcile them and instead of trying to screw them together sort of make them fit like puzzle pieces there just banging them whether hoping for them to to stick and that's the impression that i get it appears also to give a shoutout to benson governor gatling. I loved benson. Why did we benson ira for seven seasons. I was actually watched it. All the time i i mean robert. Guillaume was great. Benson is not so dissimilar from being there in benson governor gatling who's not smart and the smart one is actually benson who's behind the scenes and right similarly in being there the president the richest man in the world. The people on talk shows the one percent. They're the ones who are kind of clueless in diluted and it's really this outsider who knows what's going on in life who knows what's going on in life chance. He doesn't know dick doesn't so anything he almost did at that party. That's a great thing by the way this is very funny. Scene where we're in obviously homosexual party guest attempts attempts to pick up chance and uses the very subtle pickup line and he went to at six with a man no. I don't think so we could go upstairs right now. Is there a t._v. Upstairs. I like to watch like to watch you. Wait right here. I'll go get warren so in joke reference to shirley maclaine brother warren beatty. I guess there were rumors about 'bout his closeness with hal ashby when the gay partygoer who thinks chances suggested interest in watching gay sex says you eight here. I'll go get warren this. May maybe a dig at warren beatty babies heterosexual activity was legendary and the professional personal relationship between him and hal ashby was at times virulent with ashby refusing thing to see beatty during the waning months of his life hate it is you can't assure them clinton the movie and say i'll get warren not warren beatty. Have you ever read easy. Riders raging bulls. Oh of course in fact little humble brag here. Once you identified is that you actually graduated b._b._s. The studio that's disgusting discussed in that book stood for burt bob and steve so as baba rayson the film director steve browner was bobby darren's manager and another principal in b._b._s. c._b._s. And the other be was bert schneider a film executive from this era. I ended up spending some time. Interviewing steve flounder who's a total character and has incredible incredible unprintable stories of this era. He passed away a few years ago unfortunately but anyway yes. I love that book. It gave me such an appreciation for all of those does directors in in some ways. I think they're not as lauded today. I think partially because they were to a person jerks and doesn't go the territory and being a director well. I think you yeah. I think that's why they're not allowed anymore because we should probably try to change that william freakin well freaking pretty. Damn lauded scorsese's pretty. Damn lauded coppola. Pretty damn lauded audited. I mean these guys are considered huge artistic titans. You might be confusing employed with lauded. It's not so much that they could probably do whatever they want but the attitude around on film has changed and i think the behavior the lifestyle that went into show that is looked at differently insurance some of the behavior that's kind of implied if not stated handbook. That's certainly william. Freakin is not considered as highly as he used to be. He'd be the first i mean he will be the first to tell you that he you should have always been a lot of his movies of leon been a smaller. Let's say sure but you're right. There's still respected but i think there's there's something about the prevailing personality which looks popular and yet reading about it is so exciting and you can see it in these movies and it's like hal ashby you can and see that it's not just self-indulgence. There is a passion to say something yes again that does not forgive every sin but it is something that i think you know. It's is not as prevalent today again. I'm not somebody to complain about the modern era because they're plenty of wonderful jones coming out and you know it's a different worlds and yet there is something about i guess hollywood hollywood being able to make something like this with the kind of depth and subtlety and the desire to say something but that is something that has fallen out of vogue somewhat whereas i think hollywood has moved more towards corporate entertainment well. I think you know andrew brons. Barracuda producer who's interviewed extensively in the making of documentary really speaks to what you're talking about when he talks about certain eras you have these directors that emerged that are perfectly matched with the era. They're making films in an hughes's ashby as an example growing up in a mormon household into the different time difficult circumstances think father committed suicide and gets to los angeles and is this child of the sixties and meets jack nicholson and falls in with this crowd of people and then the movies that they're making aching are about the guys and i think that description that we read the beginning the well acted intelligent human scale drama emphasis on human scaled. That's what i appreciate. Most about this movie and these movies is more always better. Maybe but maybe it's harder to find the people that have something to say as a fan with. I do find those people that i like. Whether it's a novelist or an actor or filmmaker musician i feel more responsibility now actively follow them because it's harder to get and cheap them because you know chris. One of the more important pop cultural aspects of my life is the grateful dead skin the contemporary iteration of grateful dead that i spend the most amount of my time listening thing to following reading about is called dead and company <hes> denting companies trying to by john mayer you've heard of him he dated taylor swift yeah among other actual artistic achievements and accomplishments that yet but he's also one of the greatest living guitar players. Is you really oh absolutely anyway. The bass player in deadandcompany is a guy named oto bridge. Okay tilbern bridge used to be a bass player in the allman brothers band her that yes oh tilbern bridge is the young child eld named lolo who has a message for rafael act that chicken shit asshole raphael. Send you boy oh oh mr thomas. Franklin told me i must leave the old man's house. He's dead. You ted my hands you tell that ask and and if he got something to tell me to get his ass down here so it's gotten to check it out. <music> come down toffee dance. If i see raphael i will give him. Your message exactly did daniel. It's funny little side to everything coming full circle in my life as a child seeing this movie falling into the grateful dead maybe in a few lost years coming back emerge i ever met oh -til i would of course be very interested to talk about the music deadandcompany and the which other being there but we would get to being there and the next. I'm sure you've probably gets more stuff about the greek. No no he gets a lot about this. He does get asked about it. A lot means get shared on the grateful dead advantageous and whatnot of him in the movie. I love the scene you were talking about where he leaves. The house scored to the dotto jazz version of uh spock thus thus zara two thousand one and another strange thing about this movie it looks very real and that sorta seventy filmed and and yet it is sort of a fairy tale yeah. Oh it's such a thin line that it's drawing and the fact that it's like you said a director reflects their times in it. Yes it's very evident here. That is obviously an allusion to two thousand in one making a comparison to it which to me seems like a risky move that could almost seem dated and the fact that it still works it helps that two thousand one is is its own traffic thing that everybody's gonna associated with but that is something that i liked about it that it went to be so contemporary. It's the fact that they're using the data jazz version that that gives it the exact quality you're talking about because it references the two thousand one dawn of man sequence and it's the dawn of man as far as chances concerned emerging from the house for the first time the same way that with the television yelled television that he is watching wasn't like stock yet timeless. Yes these were commercials. There was a comedian eating rage. You can call me ray coming to yes a beer commercial. You could call me. J basketball jones a little bit of an in joke where you actually see see something that hal ashby and did a piece from the thomas crown affair yeah because this movie seems so classic i was particularly interested been seeing the very contemporary illusions that it was making and i think it made it much better. A lot of writers would say that the way to be iconic not usually be shooting for that but the more specific you are more can actually sort of apply outward sure if you tried to sort of leave things amorphous. You're not allowing more accessibility. You're pushing people out l. Kubrick was the director who said of clark when they were doing two thousand one. You need to write a novel because he said where most people go wrong as they sit down to try to write a screenplay. Yes he didn't want to do that. He wanted to adapt a novel because a novel has the denser deeper thoughts because it has hundreds of pages to get into all sorts of territories that in the screenplay you just can't and in trying to somehow take pieces out of the more complicated novel and figure out how to film them. You actually leave room for that ambiguity but it has thought behind it. You're just not seeing it spelled out in front of you because to me i can see the link there but i think he was also talking about developing story as developing story yeah because i thought that was very sophisticated thing that that he would do that because <hes> because he's officiating shirley maclean i mean i think shirley maclean was does the meryl streep of time really issues pretty damn good for a hell of a long time and a lot of great movies. She's excellent in this in the apartment meant everything that i've seen her in terms of endearment. Don't tell me that scene terms of you said screw during an feel sticky okay we're doing. We're doing terms of endearment. Can't we haven't seen that and this is all why i was a little bit surprised. There hasn't so you know you sound like she was so great. She's like meryl streep i do. I'm i'm a little bit put off by that because growing up the thing that i always associated shirley maclaine with her out their spiritual views reincarnation and that sort of thing to have very detailed accounts for many past lives and that is i think what is say chris sounds on wacky we tell you what does that have to performance in the movies before seeing seeing her in anything. This was the first impression that i had of her. I think she wanted to kademi award did she. I think she did. She must have won several best actress indira. It's actually the first one seventy only seven jeter nominated best actress nomination for the turning point seventy nine. We should do a fossey movie. I love all that jazz after he's only movie that i've seen all that jazz great eight showtime scheider talk a guy who doesn't get enough love roy freaking scheider men so have you ever seen sorcerer no. I don't think i have your commenting commenting about the story behind the making source for it's like it's one of those things it was difficult to make from from any reasons nobody wanted to make it and he was having having trouble with casting so roy scheider was like fifth sixth choice like once like not the guy i would expect seeing fantasy picks. It's the broadest and most cynical picture sorcerer. Let your street name. It's the name of a truck because they have to move dynamite fell right. Yeah had an oil thing right yeah like six choice sure they go burt reynolds or this and so two of the frigging hot at this time he was sort of hot because this is is after the exorcist but just some sort of stand people newnan there was going to be difficult. Maybe over budget but whatever was it ends up with sort of no names all of this is to say and all that jazz has he was not the first choice so he wasn't. I didn't know that oh i think he was originally dreyfuss and i think dreyfuss started ten and dreyfuss left. Wait a minute richard right. No that is ridiculous richard dreyfuss. Is that true well. Let's see all that gesture okay few because i would hate to have to walk that back. There's something wrong well. This is like the drivers was originally cast in the role of joe gideon but left the production during the rehearsal stage citing lack of confidence in the production action. He later admitted that he made a mistake passing chance to work with bob fossey on schneider's i._m._d._b. Description the first thing is angular face. That's how they describe him and then the second thing is frequently tanned bo cast and crew was brought to you by two different guys on a bench. A new comedy series from american vandal star ryan o'flanagan two different guys on a bench where ryan talks to ryan on the bench. We keep the comedy simple folks. Two different guys on a bench videos can be found now on facebook book at chocolate comedy like and follow chuck alert for the latest and greatest short form comedy videos jar original comedy delivered daily. You're i read a detail about being there that they made shirley. Maclaine film the masturbation scene seventeen times although they don't allude to that in the making of documentary kayla was talking a lot about the lighting. Did it was too light in the biltmore mansion where they were shooting all the scenes the light was really coming from the open bathroom door and the television and and he couldn't remember whose idea was for her to play the scene on the floor because chances watching television right really more focused on that than the woman. That's trying to get his attention on the floor. They talk a lot about the brilliant production designer that worked on this and many other movies and he had those bearskin rug yeah and he's saying as she's like writhing around the t._v. Light is flickering liquoring illuminating the mouth of the bear and you see the teeth and just how genius it was his analysis. That's in was pretty good. How as he put it. If you played it straight up or tried to play <unk> sexy it would have been on jarring yeah and i think he's right because i do remember watching thinking thought it was so funny and so sweet. That's the difficulty of that scene. I imagine jin. She has to be sexy and funny. So where do you pitch that. The production is on michael haller carrollton mob bound for glory coming home the last detail on all these movies with hal ashby deep anyway. He's he's a person that they spoke of very highly contributing so much to the overall look of the film right. It's just one of those elements. It's sort of strange when you think about how much of the movie takes place at the biltmore mansion and what a specific location that is dish talks a lot about how they were looking for other places that had a similar field some of the problems they were having and the other one's was that they just felt to abandoned since people didn't live in that style anymore they would find a great location but it would feel like a museum you like the way the concept concept of the biltmore was that if drapery became to age they would meticulously recreated out of period fabric and so it felt lived in of the moment which really does and the movie you wouldn't even be able to create a set like that. I love the scene where he's out front and the library guy says. Would you like akasa say yes. I would like yes. Thank you send up number. Seven please transi. If you look at his lines on the page of course they would look like nothing but the way he delivers yes. I would like a car. The childlike enthusiasm doozy azam that infuses this whole character. I think the screener said he wasn't thinking of peter sellars when he wrote the screenplay because that happened before sellers was even involved <hes> which is kind of funny thing to contemplate. Why think hal ashby this was in the interview did talk about this not to take anything away from from bob jones but he was like you know i. I had a hand in it too. Oh sure bob jones might not have written it with his much subtlety as what we saw up there the impression that i got what hal ashby cutting things down and oiling it down yeah and anytime talk about a screenplay in filming once you have the actors that's going to affect change and also wrote a completely the other other i comic moment of the movie is the final shot two things before we get to the finals and we need to find out for the final wow very old but okay chris. I'm trying to creating got out of the box story with this episode. What are your thoughts about. Ben rand as the richest man in the world and his business philosophy eighty. I knew i knew i knew when i heard jack. Warden read the first line of the eulogy. I know that keep it small and quiet and i don't want to go against base while close friends are trying to his last place to read from this quotes. I had low us for those on welfare no patience whatsoever but if i ought to be honest with myself i must admit that they have no use for me that i was going to hear what you're about to say right now. You're so true to form an so predictable adaptable. You don't know where i'm at you you're saying how do you feel about a movie presenting this character as someone we should should feel warmth towards more that the fact that he was an uber capitalist and the things that he does talk about in the dinner sia. He's got a very he's sort of business agenda. This is not a movie with much plot but what little plot there is moving the president what the president has to do with the economic doldrums reflect the eric some kind of carter esq although he's more of a ford than a carter more resident but certainly the carter era is <hes> you know economic doldrums yes so i thought it was interesting. How ashby somebody who is such a hippie because i wonder what the movie actually thinks of the character not of the character because i think ben is certainly only played as a kind man but the country is not integrate we know that the president is having difficulties with his economic policies economic policies and so the question and what to do and how to interpret and chances platitudes yeah is part of it and i thought it was interesting that especially somebody who is such a hippie peter sellers to such just sort of spirit counterculture counterculture guy that there is a sympathetic ear given to the businessman to the philosophy of economic growth. I'm i'm not saying that's directly directly. It is an interesting choice. I think for me. That's part of the charm of the movie is that even that is part of the satire. The office of the presidency is presented as filled with nincompoops and incompetence and even though we're supposed to like the president and we do like the president he's presented as not particularly early special and in a very broad stroke. He can't get it up in a similar fashion. We're presented with ben. Who's the richest man in america and spouses has some philosophies of business of life some of which are jarring these kinds of things in the in the eulogy that are positioned as controversial slash funny. I think the movie is unsparing in its criticism both of ben and of the president and of television and of wealth it shows that all of these positions are occupied by fallible human beings like anyone else. They're not any different than chance. They just think they are <hes>. I'm reminded of the story last summer about the russian woman who ended up scamming scamming all the glitter ati in new york city. Remember that story in new york magazine is a woman who was from hotel to hotel and got people to fund projects observe hers and she was basically scamming hundreds of thousands of dollars living in hotels never paying her bills being flown around the world showing up on instagram feeds and in a similar way. It's kind of like being there just managed to slip into this this glittering stream that exists and once in the stream no one bothers to question whether she's actually qualified to be there and in a similar way chance managed to slip into the stream and the funniest ways and no one really questions whether he belongs there they they come they questioned him in the sense sense of who is he but it's the fact that they can't find anything out about him makes him more alluring to them. Though of course the the one person who does figure it out decides not to do anything though there is a difference between somebody who is a scam artist and somebody who's i mean i'm sorry the similarity is not in her and chance similarity is in the world's they infiltrate right right the world that chance enters which is our world. <hes> is presented as a shallow parody of human connectedness. Fitness television is separating us and stupefying us. It's chances entry into that stream that activates everyone that's surly. Mcclain's character says when i'm with you i feel alive. You've awoke in me but i also think that they are not so much. Nincompoops as fallible. The best part of ben is appeal all too like he is responding to somebody who is kind and he's responding yes so to leave so to to a certain extent the president absolutely this leads to the shift in his power and now that i'm hearing you say it the fact that chauncey is raised on t._v. It's not just that he reflects what people want to see because of simple mindedness. He is brought up on t._v. That's where people feel so comfortable with him. He just becomes another screen but that's because they're not seeing him. They're they're comfortable them because he's parroting things he has seen on television so that he can feel as if he belongs in a moment even though we as the viewer no oh he has no idea what he's saying is not always doing when he not always the gardening which neither does become the times when he's simply saying something that he heard on television and it just sort of happens to strike the audience the audience in grants when he's on the television show at least talking about gardening mostly then as well. The soul of the movie is about life life and the degree to which modern life has disconnected us and chance and certainly the last scene which didn't come from any great thought-out rational national connection to what we're talking about. If you believe the story it came about when hal ashby was really stoned and someone mentioned to him something about walking on water and he was like oh yeah that's what i'm gonna do and he decided to end the movie with chance walking on water whereas bob jones wrote a scene which they you can see on the criterion where it ends in a more conventional way chance has wandered away from the funeral starts tending to some green shoots that are growing in the field and he positioned his umbrella over wonder protect it and shirley maclaine comes comes in finds him is it him or her has been looking for you everywhere. She says it and then he says like i've been looking for you too. Eve bob jones in his interviews still. I still think that's the better of course he's the writer. He's going to say that. I don't agree. What do you think i don't know. Actually don't much care for either ended. Really i think the image and i'll tell you shocked the image of him walking on the water as an image. That's awesome major something that gets lost by him testing it with the umbrella. That's that's a quibble actually like that. I know what you mean but here's the thing you're saying that because you know now l. the scene exists. I think truly think about how you feel about that scene. You have to take yourself back to being in a movie theater when you would see for the first time if you saw it for the first time you you might be a little confused. Is it frozen. Is there a layer of ice that he's walking on and the reason they do that. Almost slapstick umbrella dipping thing is to show you that he's walking on water and he's as somebody says in the documentary. He's too dumb to know he can't. He's not supposed to be able to do it now that we know that's the ending scene you might feel as i briefly did. We don't need the underscoring of the umbrella because we know now. He's meant to be walking on water but i don't think you knew that then when he saw the movie the first time and i think that's why they certainly by every time i saw it. I'm just saying it could play as you're supposed to think it's real like he's. He's walking on frozen pond or something. It can be confusing viewer. Potentially there are two things that i don't necessarily like putting the cabrera in i don't like because peter sellars has been this character within that does seem like stepping out in a slapstick way in the last moment. I suppose you can forgive it yeah but my real problem with the ending. I actually disliked the ending with shirley. Maclaine is what i'm just sort of because even though it's a fairy tale it is a satire. There is commentary about the world about america about hellish takeover. Yeah he is not a holy fool who because of his simplicity and kind heart changes and it's because he's raised on television and sort of stunted strain that it does push it a little bit more towards divinity as if he's a model we should all be following. I because of the association with jesus like you know that you're like walking on water that even if it's just like hey this guy is he's magical. I get got it. I i feel that it's such a unique movie that i can understand the moment where hal ashby figured out with the shirley maclaine seen this is not the way the movie shouldn't <hes> because i agree with you that that would have been a very disappointing way to end a movie like this evil little cheapens eve an edison's chauncey to it makes it a very conventional love story. We're all of a sudden. They have this moment where he actually is suddenly present and available and emotionally in love with her in a way that we know he can't be given that though you don't have a lot of other options i guess i never took it as literally as i never took the lack of liberalness onus as literally as you're taking it as effort i got to write the ending and -scribed the holiness the lot we should be more like kim ness to it. I acquainted more to brazil for example to another movie. That famously had a couple of different endings studio imposed john or henry fool which has a great ambiguous ending to me. This is exactly the right ending because it leaves you with the perfect amount amount of uncertainty and room to think for yourself. You make a good case. How else would you end this damn movie. I mean okay. I'll put it this way the way we say in the office all the time okay. You don't like this gimme the better version tell me how to make it better. You got it okay. Thank you l. me the ghosts of hal ashby. I hope you're listening to this as an editor and peter sellars mom. Actually i thing and you have this figure it out. Yes okay. I haven't listened to just as thirty seconds ago. Liam door creeps open benjamin's but with weight flying on a campaign chainsaw hands. Let's say if we were to take the bob jones ending. Yes chauncey comes out finds the tree that has been shoot down down any tends to maybe if he was going to be a serious idea or xeres again he's tending to say he puts the million you see eve coming yeah looking for him but instead of her running over to him and saying like cianci. I've been looking. She stops and watches as he finishes up. He's sort of looking down at the umbrella looking looking at this thing that is going to grow because intervention and she is watching this moment that he doesn't realize he is being watched and seen and see scene and it right there in india right there yeah so you don't know if she's going to go to him or stay apart. Does she realize that there's something wrong with him. Does she may be hey. Here's a guy that's a good ending. I think that would have been a good ending however the only problem i have with that ending if to change the whole marketing cam no it does bring up a good question the images so damn good you almost have to put it in just has to have it on the poster see above the what's the poster a guy tending to a tree with a woman looking up. It's like six something bergman plain song and eh playing chess with the devil. I like that type of ending. I just think the hyper reality of the ending we have is appropriate. I guess if there's a term there will be a german term for an image that embodies an incredibly layered and deep complicated feeling that doesn't have to be explained. It's not even so much the walking in the umbrella. It's that first moment when he steps out how about this is a compromise. The scene starts where he's at the ponds edge. He's tending to the tree he steps up and he starts to walk out into the water and there's a moment just before he dips the umbrella where he becomes aware that he's walking on the water but he's he's still close enough to shore where you and i aren't quite sure what's going on yet. What if we just cut before that umbrella seen so he steps out he becomes aware or does he not that. He's walking on water or is he. He doesn't do the umbrella. It goes to black right then. I would have loved to have been kind of a that would have been something that people would be like wait. I would people ability. He's not walking on water. He just took a few steps out into the pond. You were saying people say he's too stupid to know that he can't do this. Another interpretation that i've read is that it's an illusion to wiley coyote roti literally running off the cliff and keep guy and it's only when he looks down that he falls and if he fell into the water so you're saying he hit walkout and then become aware of are these walking on water and then immediately as he became aware fall into the water may be cut just before he does but i do love ending on the tensest moment like does he fall through the walkout does he. I think i would like that better. It's definitely a choice but i can imagine being in the edit room and seeing i guarantee it's the shot. The wide screen shot and you got a guy walking down the middle of a lake on the water. It just looks too good not to use your these guys are visual artists and we know i can argument that i cannot can. You and i would like no no no. Let's cut here but i like yours too but i like a little more of the magical realism walking onto a water but just not being sure what's going on like you said it does tie in with that poster and just which is such a great immigrate image and actually you know to drop the name marguerite well. Someone's going to do our job. It's going to be you bill because actually when he is just as he's leaving the house and i wonder how confident because that poster is so yes. I think so too when he's leaving the house he goes through the foyer. Your door closes it behind him and you see him yes through the frosted glass his head and the hat framed in part where it's frosted a little bit differently because he loses. This is all detail of his face. It looks very reminiscent of that mcgrath with the apple. I was thinking this is saying destroy reminder e. I thought the president's was more mcgruff. The crime fighting dog eh level of reference deputy dog. Who's the blue dogs a deputy dog. Do we see a cartoon of a crime fighting dog yeah. It's the blue crimefighting dog huckleberry hound. I thought it was deputy dog being their cartoon ref dog with a w being they're no this is deputy dog now not deputy dawg yeah no. It's that blue. What's the one you're talking well. Huckleberry hound is blue. Berry hound is it. It'd been seeing being being there that i can't remember seeing. It's gonna crazy now. Oh yeah that that dog when it's not a crime fighting thing it's it's. I thought it was gonna be mutley the money that's what it is right but it's not wacky races. I don't think you hear that sound well. We certainly aren't going to hear it in the finnish cut. They can't afford it. It's definitely of that hanna barbera. Ilk yeah but it's not that dog. I think it's a dog in a trenchcoat. That's why i thought it was a and this is the part where people who know the answer to this or listening to this and they're like yelling on a train like it's such such idiots monthly monthly cartoon dog with a trenchcoat i mean is it numbly. Yes it's monthly monthly cartoon mumbling. That's it. I love the laugh affix. I could go down the laugh olympics hall. I don't remember it as scooby's laugh olympics. Let's see i mean we've got wikipedia. That's where i looked at scooby's laugh olympics where the various hanna edberg characters compete in their own version of the olympic games. I mean you know you can't say olympic games by the way. I don't know how hanna-barbera got away with it. In fact matt's gonna probably blast games and while anyway block o scooby's all star laugh olympics yes a two hour saturday morning program block that included scooby doo laugh olympics blue falcon in dynamite captain caveman and reruns of scooby doo. Where are you by the way olympics was its own show within scooby's laugh olympics. Which is the block like t._g._i._f. The two hour cartoon unblock whoever was coming up with that idea was apparent that had children. They're like we're going to do a two hour window. Where my child it will be fixated in front of the television and i can sit down and read the newspaper so <hes> well. I think we've reached rock-bottom culturally. I'd like to think we reached an apex six of understanding about a complicated film a brilliant director a wonderful actor and incredible cast talented cinematographer. I would hope that when i'm caleb dacians age i can wear shirt and blue blazer as well as he does. Beautiful prewar new york city apartment building having worked on one hundred of the most iconic <unk> films ever made and where it with such casual in in this word in sales in sushi. Is it insouciant s- insouciance. I would say insouciance swell but what would you do in soons like a lawn is a better way to say. Insouciance is alien and it's the same thing really actually day. Lawn is a sense of style. That doesn't have to announce itself. Insouciance is a devil may care has will lack of concern a lag different turnabout to stop a lawn is style while you're talking about war is blue blazer pattern shirt anti war with a lawn not with insouciance hal ashby wore a ski ski parka beard and glasses with insouciant entreated his wives within suzanne's bullet. Yes uh wow what a show <hes> i well. We did record this before. Instituting the alternative casting segment we did mention that burt lancaster was considered for the role of carly industrialist. Benjamin rand a role which ultimately went to the great melvyn douglas but i thought you might also be interested to hear that laurence olivier. I was actually offered that same role but turned it down to to the film's sexual content specifically the masturbation scene. I also read that one of the producers wanted elvis presley for the role of chauncey but couldn't get him due to his manager would elvis presley star of blue hawaii viva las vegas girl happy and clam clam bake have brought the same depth comedic experience a nuance to the singular role. The world will never know no rant raves this week. I'll save them from when jason is back from his classified fight espionage mission in saint petersburg. Let's keep that between us so that brings us to the end. Thank you for listening and until next time if your blunders and shortcomings in ignorance due to chauncey gardiner levels of transcendence well early due to this fade either <music>. Hey hey it john. Thank you for listening to this episode of full cast and crew. I hope you enjoyed it. If so drop us a line you can email us at full cast and crew pod at gmail.com or find us on twitter at full cast and crew or on instagram at full cast and crew true or of course bind the podcast on facebook and if you really really enjoyed it take a screen shot of your favorite episode on your podcast player and forwarded to a friend so they can subscribe. I try and figure out what you're always laughing about and if you didn't enjoy it. I don't know drop his line anyway. I can take it.

hal ashby president david clinton peter sellars producer bob jones chris chandler jack warden jersey kaczynski ben rand melvyn douglas director shirley maclaine donald trump robin williams writer peter sellers editor washington
Ash Wednesday - What is the use of Ash?

Catholic Musings

09:59 min | 1 year ago

Ash Wednesday - What is the use of Ash?

"Catholic musings Haslett gun gasoline. Smear for music. I'm Jude's Avia. And you're listening to Catholic musings. Once again, we prepare for Ashwin stay when we begin the journey of lent in anti patient of the Easter celebration. It is worth considering for a moment. The imagery of ashes as we prepare for them to be used to Mark us with a sign of the cross. There are five uses of Astras I would like to consider an how they can help us on all spiritual journey. First of all the use of ashes to cleanse us. We live in a disposable age for all of our efforts to save and recycle. There are some things which we easily overlook as we make our surroundings clean pleasant. Get even the very ashes which can be found in the bottom of a fireplace can still have a use and can be recycled. For many people at one time. It would have been natural. To scoop the white ashes and soak them in soft water before mixing them with oil or fat to make soap. So it is the remains of a fire which can easily dirty our hands and clothes come become the surprising agent of change of cleansing. God always sees the possible in us and can make us agents of change even at times when we can feel burnt-out tired or unable to help. God can still scoop up like ashes renew ass- with the water of life and make us agents of change and possibility wherever we are. And however, we are we have value in God's eyes and a mission to accomplish ashes seemingly dirty and of little value. In fact, have the power to cleanse and renew. God nothing, and nobody is disposable. We all have a purpose. And a reason we all have gifts that we can bring even if we look upon those gifts as little more than ashes. Secondly, ashes can contribute to new life. But some point or another we have all looked down as a pile of ashes perhaps looking into a large open fireplace after being kept warm through a cold winter's night or after a barbecue with friends or family, by a beach. The image, which we see is the end of life. The once Greenwood has dried up and now being burnt away leaving the powdery residue of Ashby behind too many is it might seem like the end of the story. But I am informed. The dash contains within it most of the thirteen essential ingredients necessary for plant life and growth. Placed in the compost or in the ground for new and growing plants ashes provide nutrients for life. What was once so easy to view as having ended its purpose now contributes in a fresh way and with a renewed purpose. For god. There is no end to our reason for being too psalmist reminds us that God raises the needy out of the ash-sheikh. We are always precious in God's eyes. And we continue to have reason for being. Ashes seemingly dust like an empty of life, in fact, contain energy potential and the gift of nourishment for new life. Mike wise. God will always see our potential will always see our energy and will always have a way in which we can encourage and nourish those around us a third use of ashes as with Wednesday itself is a sign of repentance, the outward use of ashes is a sign of repentance has a long history, we read the scriptures of people fasting in sackcloth and ashes or even sitting in ashes all of this was an outward sign of expressing grief for humiliation or repentance. But this is not a sign of hopelessness or the end of a journey. As I have already mentioned ashes have within them the power of something new. So it is with a journey of repentance when we examine our relationship with God, we should never think that we have reached a journey of no return. Instead, God gives us the gift of being able to start a fresh to be renewed renar east to find new life where it seemed that there was no life. This is the very Easter message which Ash Wednesday prepares us to journey towards the cross of death is in fact, the tree of life. The darkness is scattered by the light of Christ. Ashes is a sign of repentance sat in or warn may appear on one level to be an image of an end of journey. But in the eyes of God, they are an image of potential and new life. A fourth use of ashes is to repel insects, something any keen gardener will already know about a border of ashes scattered around the guard and has the ability to deter worms slugs and snails the ash get stuck to their bodies. And it takes the moisture from them along with the use of ashen compost to enrich life the very same can protect life. It can protect the life of growing plants as a physical barrier against predators. Once again, the wood ash from the bottom of the fireplace, which appears to be no more than the sweepings of rubbish actually has a hidden power and strength, which so easily can be overlooked. How easy it is. For us to overlook those who may protect us, perhaps we are. So used to them being around us, perhaps we don't even notice them. It may be those who are paid to do so law enforcement officials or security personnel. Or it could be those who do so out of love, and who we may take for granted family and friends who protect us in all sorts of ways. And then there is the continual protection of God so easy to forget or ignore. The God who quietly watches over us night and day as one of the Anton in night prayer said by the church expresses it saves us Lord while we are awake. Protect us while we sleep that we make watch with Christ and rest with him in peace. Finally, I would like to consider another use of ashes, which has perhaps disappeared with the range of cleaning products that we now have available and that is to make the dull shine ash is something that can polish things. It's a simple matter of taking the very fine wood ash from a fire mixing it with a little water to make a paste and applying it to a precious metal the ashes of the fireplace has within the ability to transform. What is tarnished into something clean? And sparkling. There are times when we can feel unworthy times when we believe that we are unable to bring a shine to life auto others because of our own faults, God sees beyond that and can pull us up and use us to make the world shine and to bring light and beauty to others. The seemingly lifeless nature of ask has the ability to surprise us in what it can do in soap it can cleanse in composting and nourish on Ashwin say at marks our desire to turn to Christ on the ground. It can protect plants against pests mixed with water. It can be a fine natural polish to things that are dull what appears to be useless is in fact, full of the most amazing variety of uses. God never sees you. Or I as useless. Instead, God sees our potential to bring new life to the world and make even the dullest parts shine to his glory. Thank you so much for joining me today, if you would like to support financially the work and ministry of Catholic musings, which will always be available free. You can do so for as little as a dollar via our patriot link at our website Catholic musings dot org. Also at the website. You'll find are highly successful rosary podcast and our stations of the cross podcast suitable particularly for the lenton season. You can also find the apple and Google podcast links to Catholic musings where you can subscribe at no cost store. Do the same. On your preferred podcast player to make sure that you never miss. Our free weekly episode of Catholic musings.

Haslett Jude Mike wise Greenwood Ashwin apple Ashby Google
I'm Worried That My Fianc is Lying About Making Payments (Hour 2)

The Dave Ramsey Show

40:36 min | 8 months ago

I'm Worried That My Fianc is Lying About Making Payments (Hour 2)

"Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions broadcasting from dollar car rental studios. It's the Ramsey show. Where DEBT IS DUMB? Cash is king paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey your host. Thank you for joining US America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five. Cecilia is with us in Boston. Hi How are you? Hi Dave thank you so much for taking my call. Sure how can I help so my husband and I have around two hundred fifty thousand dollars worth of debt. Well most of it being student loans. I know Um no mortgage because we don't have a house and We also have to lease vehicles. We just sold one. We have another one. That is over around two thousand miles. So we've been trying to save up car In order to drive that and several used car and We have a family Wedding that's coming up in August in another country It's my husband's brother and to be decided in order to help Keep our zone custody up and not take too much of a hit to have my husband. Go and me stay and the issue with that. Was that His family was not happy with the decision and it was very upsetting and we got you know called selfish and and it was tough emotionally at the handle that and we're just wondering are we being too insensitive both go So we're in a pickle back so Is His family wealthy? No so they're all broke but they're doing a destination wedding internationally. Well I don't know what his brother's situation is In you know the nation wedding and you invite all your family's it's broke. It's kind of unfair but I personally thought right. So where's the wedding Dominican Republic okay? That's not too bad. I mean what would it cost you? You get down there So one plane ticket for their date is around Almost seven hundred dollars for a weekend. And what's your household income? We make around sixty sixty thousand dollars a year combined. Wow Two hundred thousand dollars in debt. I I cried myself to thirty ninth. Yes so how much how much of the two hundred thousand two cars. Well the Chook so got rid of one of the cars. We got rid of one of the least says so. We don't have that five hundred dollar payment. That was the carpeting was part of the two hundred thousand dollars in debt that you gave me now says in addition to that okay right and then how much. How much do you owe on the other car lease so you don't have you? Don't have that in two hundred thousand either okay. And what is the two hundred thousand? All student loans. Yeah so it's a hundred thousand his student loans and it's ninety thousand my in laws and the rest are Credit Card and bank loans. So what are your degrees in? My degree is in school counseling. So I took loans in my bachelor's and master's degree and he started nursing practitioner degrees but didn't finish so he took the launch for that. So now we have that long or that. Got The degree of you work. Yes we both work. Then you only make sixty thousand dollars a year okay while show your masters degree in all of your work. was a really poor investment based on the career field. That chosen out of it anyway because I mean if we just take years alone you say one hundred thousand dollars in debt. I mean you're making what thirty I'm no I'm making so I. I guess I meant after taxes. I'm making around. I'm making fifty but after taxes. I WanNa fix like what does he make He. He just started working any job so right now. He makes around fifty. He just started a teaching job. But that wasn't you know hundred and fifty hundred mega hundred thousand dollars a year. All right. That's a little different Well I I mean seven hundred dollars one way or the other is not GonNa Change Your Life until the positive or the negative. It's more the point of who runs your house your mother-in-law or U2 won't and that's what this comes down to it's more of a boundary issue and You know I I might be inclined to spend the seven hundred accepted. I everybody wanted me to and that makes me not want to do it. Because you're trying to tell me how to run my house all of you But yeah seven hundred bucks. If that's all it's GONNA cost you get down there. That's really out of one hundred thousand a year income and you've got a two hundred thousand dollar mess. The seven dollars is not the issue. I mean you're going to find other stuff that happens that that's going to be seven dollars one way the other and both of you need to get extra jobs and you've gotta sell this other car. That's a lot more important than the seven hundred dollars. I think it's more of a boundary issue of you know you don't get to decide what I'm GONNA do. That's not you don't live here and And sometimes you do things not out of guilt tripping but just because you want to be kind to someone but But as soon as I start guilt tripping me I tend to go the other way so I don't care if you go. It doesn't matter to me. I think you've got a lot bigger fish to fry than that one so I'm not sure this is a sword. I WANNA fall on if it was seven thousand dollars. Yeah I mean you're trying to fly made a wherever for seven grand. That'd be different but seven hundred bucks is you can work extra for a month delivering pizzas and go right. What you need to be probably be doing anyway to earn some money. So it's just you know there's so many big numbers here and that is such a small number that it's more about the relationship issues the boundary issues for me than than the actual dollars in this case and So that that's you know the way I'd look at it. It's it's so presumptuous folks for you guys any of you to do a wedding and I've run into this bunch of times over the years you know I. It's fine if you do a wedding out of the country into a destination wedding or something that's fine or do a wedding in your city in your family lives in New York and you want to get married in La because that's where you live But you don't have the right to be angry if they can't make it over there that's presumptuous And that's not a line you know if if you're all worried about her by making it go where they are. Don't put it in the freaking Dominican Republic. You know that's just presumptuous as crud it's just a good presuming upon my money. You're spending my money and then you're pissed I won't. That's just weird. This is the Dave Ramsey. Show you know one of the absolute best investments you can make is in yourself if you're waking up in the morning dragging you're not doing anyone a favor get the best sleep. You've had on equality affordable mattress from Tuft and needle. They've got a mattress to fit your needs and they start as low as three hundred nine dollars. I could tell you all about the specs but I really like these guys. They are an incredible company and they will take care of you. Get your new mattress with free shipping and a one hundred nights risk-free trial at T. N. dot com that's T- in Dot Com. Thanks for joining us. Laura is whether those in Eugene Oregon. Hi Laura how are you dave? I'm great how are you better than I deserve? How can I help So my husband is currently active duty Army. We just started on the baby steps. We have our thousand dollar Emergency Fund and we are working on paying down debt Our concern is when should we buy a home? He's set to retire in seven years and he'll be forty at that point My fear is waiting until he is forty. Take out a mortgage and being behind the curve on everything else Our thought is maybe we should save up for a mortgage prior to retirement and purchasing a home. But I'm just we just kind of stuck we don't want to get behind But at the same time we don't want saving for a mortgage to take away from saving for retirement or a bigger emergency fund or anything like that. Well what I would do is Let's work on through through on through the baby steps. Get Out of debt. Get Your Emergency Fund in place and then start putting fifteen percent of your income into retirement and then I would say above that. I'm going to start saving towards the purchase of a home and You know so you've got a you got six five five six years at that point to build a really strong down payment to get into a home and And maybe even depending on what your household income is maybe even save up an entire amount by cash for home during that time and be fine then Because what what? You're not really losing ground. Because you're building that fund to be able to buy your home fund is what we're saying you're going to have the separate fund above your emergency are above your retirement savings to do that To to buy a home with and so you just you just start chunking money in there like you were paying off a house in so anytime you find any extra money anywhere bonus or on inheritance or the sale of an item or whatever you just throw it. Put that in the home fund. We'll put that in the home funding. Put that in the home fund and you may look up that you may very well look up depending on household income and go wow enough to pay. Cash the seven year mark. And you're GONNA be fine you you know. It's not ideal to start this whole process at fifty years old but people do and they make it. And you're not you're you're starting at forty so you're not gonNA really be off. You'RE GONNA be fine Hannah's whether in Charlotte North Carolina. Hi Hannah. How are you Mr Ramsey? How are you today better than I deserve? What's up in your world. I have a few you get questions for you today. I've been earning money was baby sitting and it's a good bit of money for a teenager my age. I was calling to ask if there was any particular book that you would suggest how to manage it. Okay very cool. How much of your saved a few thousand dollars good for you? Why did it go? How old are you fourteen? Wow Look at you. Well Don. You're sitting on a lot of kids. So what do you want to do with the money? Say That in. Spin it by Carla's car okay. She got a couple years to save towards the car. And you've already got a couple of thousand in that direction. The I think that's ideal so what this does not have to be some kind of super complicated sophisticated thing. It could be as simple as you've savings account the bank and you throw a chunk of the money that you earn in that account. You want to buy a car with it in two years and you just keep throwing it in there and throwing it in there and throw him in there. And you've got a goal of hitting a certain amount and you divide that into how long you've got twenty four months to get there and how much you want to have in there and you say well that's how much how many kids need to sit. You know and and you just work your way into it that way. I I think you're fine. I don't know that you necessarily need to have some kind of sophisticated investment strategy at fourteen with your babysitting money to to buy a car with as I think. You're doing fabulous. I will send you a copy of our book for High School Seniors. And I think you'll have no trouble grasping it because you're obviously ahead of your years. It's called the graduate survival guide and it's things to mistakes to not make in college but and so I think it will give you some some ideas as you're saving towards your car but you're you're doing beautifully beautifully. I'm sure your parents are very proud. They should be chat whether it's in Chicago. Illinois Hi Chat. How are you good? How are you doing today? Dave better than I deserve. What's up I'm going to be debt free next month except for our house. Because I'm getting a decent bonus check and I can shoot at the Max to my 401k. Right now and I just wanted to know how much Ashby Roth versus traditional right now. I do about seven thousand a year to the Roth in about eleven five to the traditional side. One hundred percents ship a roth okay. Okay because yeah in my employer matches ten percent which obviously goes additional side. Convert that to Roth if you pay the taxes on it once a year right. Oh Okay I didn't realize inside the 401 you can roll the contribution to employer contribution into your regular Pay Taxes on it. I know because I do that here with mine But here's the thing we want you putting fifteen percent of your household income. No more than fifteen percent of your household income into retirement are at baby. Step FOUR AFTER. You're debt free except Your House. And after you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. So you got some of this running out of order here if you're going to be able to fix it out pretty quick that's fine but if it's GonNa take you twelve months to get that order straightened out you. You need to stop your Retirement savings temporarily until you get out of debt and have your emergency fund but if you can do that real quick by discontinuing go ahead and do it. But that's the order. We usually tell folks to attack this and then I would. You have children to kid and we are saving money towards college as well. Yeah so you got all these things going out of order. Okay and then anything else. You'd find above fifteen percent no more than fifteen percent. Going into retirement about fifteen percent goes to pay off the house early. And that's what we'll show you two the reason for the Roth one hundred percent Israel Israel sample a hundred percent of what you have in. Your account is tax free when you get to retirement and almost all of what is in your account when you get to retirement traditional or roth is growth. Ninety to ninety five percent of what is in there is growth and either that is taxable. Or it's not taxable so first three million dollars in traditional or in a roth in a roth remain is tax. Free verse three million in putting the same amount into a traditional you end up with the same three million and its taxable. It's GonNa cost you a million bucks taxes so you you want to be sure that that's why I say quickly and easily without even thinking about it. A hundred percent roth win for the portion and when you do start with the With retirement when you get to baby steps when now get that straightened out pretty quick? They're all right. Julie's with us in Greenville South Carolina. Hi Julie How are you? Hey I'm good? Thank you good. How can I help? Well my question is we just started. your class last night for the first time and I've heard about the Snowball effect paying the debt off. My question is My husband is Had Cancer five times and so we've gotten some money from from the insurance company and I want to know what to do with this money because we also have a credit card. That's racking up like a hundred dollars a month interest and then we have a medical bills that you know some of them need to be paid and some can wait and so I just I just WanNa know what to do. How's he doing Rodney all he is cancer free and He's been up some Radiation Treatment so a few months ago He's cancer free. He goes that to have blood work done at the end of March. Wonderful such good thank you. That's a beast. You've been fighting there okay. So just list your debts smallest to largest and get your budget going. If you're part of Financial University you've got every dollar. You should be using it for your budget connected to. Your Bank. Lay that out. Make sure your bills or pay. Everybody gets minimum payments except smallest debt. And if you've got a chunk of money work down smallest to largest ride down that list we start clearing off all those little ankle biter medical bills real fast and then you'll start pounding that credit card car loan student loan. Whatever else is there? List them small to large at Ramsey solutions were big fans of leaving a positive legacy for our children love faith responsibility and a powerful financial legacy friends. A timeshare does not fit into that equation. Do not leave your children. A legacy of increasing timeshare maintenance fees of high pressure upgrade sales presentations or a debt. That is extremely difficult to offload timeshare. Exit team can help you leave a better legacy call them today. Eight four four nine nine nine exit eight four four nine nine nine exit or timeshare exit team dot COM. A real estate market is wide hot. Isn't it I mean. I think a monkey can sell a house right now. I'm not sure they can get it to closing. But I think that. Get your contract. Ooh I think it would work and real estate businesses. So funny there's real estate agents come out of the business like crazy one times like this and they go out like crazy when times are bad. You thought about selling your home. You think you'd window in that. Yeah you could sell a home run now who home? Values increase nearly seven percent nationally in the last year. Inventory is the shortest has been since nineteen ninety nine biggest sellers market. I've seen and I don't know when so if you're thinking about someone else this is about as good a time sales ever. If you don't like your current home you WanNa make a move to you. Know that kind of stuff. Now you do not want to list your house with your Uncle Henry who just got his license. I mean really well. I need to support Uncle Henry. Why with your largest asset that you own on the planet you're GonNa give it to a novice latte makes you dumb don't do that. Our real estate endorsed local providers closed three times the properties that the average agent closes and customers who use the LP's or forty nine percent more likely to say they had a great homeselling experience. Then ones who didn't use our LP's and not only that our yell peas average getting up to sixteen percent more for your home. These are high octane. Firebreathers BABY. They get it done. So if you're thinking about selling a house get pro. It's my Nissim volume when your team? Not Somebody got their license. Twenty minutes ago really go to Daveramsey DOT COM slash e. l. p. for a high octane. Real Estate Agent Click E LP for real estate on the front page. It'll get you there. Alex is with us in Wilmington Delaware. Hey Alex how are you Very Good Mr Ramsey. Thank you for taking my call. Sure what's up I work as a career fireman. And it's a job that I love good. I was injured on the job and Couple of surgeries later and in and out of a full duty I'm being retired on disability. I'm sorry and thank you so One of the options that they offer with the disability process is what's called the social security adjustment option and so If you take that they give you approximately three hundred and seventy five dollars a month ish Till you turn age sixty two and a little bit less if you wait until age sixty five and then they reduced the benefit that you. You're receiving by what they calculate out for Social Security At that point versus not taking that adjustment option and then From there you would just you know in addition to your disability pension and you get Social Security on top of it and so I've done the math. It's about four years of difference. I I'm thinking if I'm doing the math correctly I got lost their so. You said seventy five dollars. That's not the total benefit. No that's the So they give you the benefit and then give you an additional three hundred. I is three seventy five. If you agree to do social security offset when you turn sixty five or sixty two. Okay all right Gotcha. Okay and so you're fifty eight. No I'm forty eight. Probably Forty eight this year. Okay so it's GonNa it's GonNa be a lot longer than four years difference. I don't understand. Oh so well. I tried to do the math myself right. So if I take the three seventy five minus I think that's a taxable benefit right extra three hundred seventy five dollars and then you know The offset once I turned sixty two And or the break. Even point I think is about four years if I'm doing the math correctly and In terms of you know not taking the adjustment or taking the adjustment So you're running your social security number it. What at sixty two and I think they they the the offsets about fifteen hundred dollars a month. Okay so you're saying the assumption you're using to do your calculation is that the drop is GonNa you take three seventy five from forty eight to sixty two so fourteen years right and you in return you lose fifteen hundred for the rest of your life at starting at sixty two right okay and you you do apply for Social Security and you do get that. Get that either way correct okay. Yep that's three seventy five a month twelve and fourteen now. I got to put it in here because I gotta look at it. You'd be. I'm just curious. This is an interesting one. I haven't seen this before right. So that's sixty three thousand dollars. Total that she would receive now and eighteen thousand. And so you said you got about a three and a half year break even. Is that what you figured out about that? Yeah that's about right. I got that too. Not Counting the present value of money okay. Now there's a financial theory not theory financial formula. That says would you rather have a thousand dollars today or ten thousand dollars? Twenty five years from now in the answer is you'd rather have a thousand dollars today because the present value of that ten thousand dollars is less than one thousand dollars given that you take that one thousand dollars invested. It'll be more than ten. So if you take three seventy five and invest it. It's a lot more than sixty three to run the financial formula properly. That's what you do okay. And so if we took the three seventy five and invest it for fourteen years. Let's just do it? I'm just a second. This is interesting. I'M GONNA put it in the calculator here. Okay that's our Haymon. They were starting nothing. Put a mutual fund onto fourteen years. And what's the future of women or okay try again three semi-fat so this is a problem with doing stuff on the right right right right by hand fourteen you'd be able to be present value right Yeah one hundred. Sixty two thousand is what we're dealing with. Okay entered a fifteen hundred divide. That's one hundred eight months so it's almost ten years break. Even when you do a present value calculation assuming a stock market rates of return of twelve percent. Okay which you can argue about. That could be it could more. But I'm just running a formula. Okay okay so would I do that? Sixty two ten seventy two. I have a tendency to do this. Even if the math comes up. Sort of on the bubble. I ever tendency to take my money as quick as I can get it okay because it once it's in your hands it goes to your heirs is long as it's in this other stuff it dies with you right. Okay and so I you know. Like for instance social security. I'll go take early and invest it right and that invested money hundred hundred sixty three thousand dollars that the three seventy five becomes if we put it into a mutual fund every month give or take one hundred and fifty thousand two hundred thousand but somewhere in that range without goes to your heirs when you die. It isn't lost at your death. This stream of income that were comparing against dies with you right. So if you're not going to buy a truck with a three hundred seventy five dollars if you'RE GONNA Invest It. I'm going to go ahead and it okay. But that's how that's the way my brain works. You understand what I was doing there. You know I do I do. Yeah so I've been. I heard you focus on the family about twenty years ago. Wow solidified in my mind A lot of the things that I was thinking at the time and I've been completely debt free included concluding the house for ten years. Now good from you. So you're right shape financially. We have forty eight and this just keeps you from being a fireman. It doesn't you're not disabled to the point. You can't do anything so you have an encore career. You may go. Mike one hundred grand a year doing something else. I That's part of the problem. I don't know yet The second surgery for six months as a fusion is not Italy's lock it's the back neck is so it's I'm maybe going back again for more surgery. You may have that. But that doesn't mean you can't do anything it's just me you're not gonNA think physically you're just gonNA use good mind of yours in for your own career but right now you're still fighting back stuff's hard. I'm so sorry. Sorry you're going through this and probably got injured on the job as a fireman checked and everybody else that she wrote stuff right there. Hey thanks for calling in. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Should they is with US in North Carolina? I should say how are you? How are you better than I deserve? Welcome to the show. I kinda found a bit nervous troublesome We we're renting a house we've been renting for the last two years and the owner wants to sell the house soon. We're not sure exactly when we're expecting maybe within a year or so they ha- they're willing to work deal with us where they're going to basically give us Credit towards the House from what we've been paying rent. Wow and we don't. We don't know if it's something we should do. So it's GonNa be living next. We told him we'll give him an answer within the next four to five months which you'll be about thirty thousand dollars in credit and we we're on babysitting number two. We have about three thousand dollars for going to finish half of that this month so we have one more month one more month with in baby step number two. And then we'll we were planning a biller emergency fund within that five months. Good and we make we take home about thirty thirty six undo the month the one Okay and I'm expecting too so we're not sure what to do. So congratulations okay. So what is the house worth worth one six? They bought it for one sixty ninety but they that's what they want to sell it for the market values one st nine one fifty five. The market value is one fifty five. And they're going to give you a thirty thousand dollar credit. Yes but they're going to give us the credit on What they paid for it for one sixty ninety nine hundred okay. One Sixty one hundred sixty thousand nine hundred. Yes sir. Okay so thirty off of that as one thirty and the house is worth one. Fifty five is an. Where did you get the information on? What the house is worth? Uh-huh oh okay. Zillow is not reliable enough for me to buy a house from so I'm GonNa go get good. Quality real estate agent to look at it and have them do a comparative market of market analysis. For you if it's truly worth one fifty one. I'm sorry I'm currently speaking with one. Okay good good well so if you can buy a one hundred and fifty five thousand dollar house for one thirty. That's a good by your out of debt. You Got Your Emergency Fund in place before you do the transaction. Then that's there's nothing wrong with that. The only question remaining is is. This is the house you want. Yes okay if you like. No yeah okay. You're not going to close it and you're not GonNa buy it until you have your Emergency Fund and you have your your out of debt. We've already established that. Okay but if you can buy a one hundred fifty five thousand dollar house for one thirty and you like the House. Why would you not buy it okay? Then by it. I mean you're at the right place and that's the right thing to do. Then he is with us in Jacksonville. Florida high how are you? Hey Dave I'm nervous. How're you doing? No troubles what's up. I'm worried that this month Yang Fei is lying about payments and this and that thing The problem that I'm running into is that she makes choose a financial manager Making about seventy thousand year and I'm making twenty And we bought a car recently Before I started getting serious into your book and We've made three payments and all three payments there's been issues Whereas the understanding that she would make the payment. It's her car that's not noticing. I just had to like cosign for Amex more money than you or why. Why did you have to cosign for if she makes three times what you make because she had a chapter seven bankruptcy three years ago and apparently dropped her credit down to nothing. Yeah that's what a chapter exactly destroyed credit. Okay she got bad grim but okay. So how expensive is six forty? Okay How am I? How expensive was this car? Twenty Okay and when are you scheduled to be married We want to get married in June. Okay and so have you sat down and said okay. You've had three payments. Were over three on the payments which means as a financial manager. You're not very good at it. And I'm Jay. What's going on or are you broke? What because the money's in the bank. She's made the payments. I've seen the payment like for example this last payment I visually saw it i. I've seen her physically make the payment three times. I saw it on the regional acceptance website. She made it like a week ago yesterday. It wasn't on their website anymore. Not Understand that doesn't make some. Yeah it doesn't make any sense. She's making a pattern making the payment or if regional acceptance is being strange for some reason. I don't know I don't either but I would wanna get to the bottom of this because let me just tell you do when someone will lie about anything. They'll lie about anything and so if she's lying about this This is time to tap the breaks on getting married because somebody lie about that law about anything right and so the integrity is a deal breaker in an engagement. We need to get to the bottom of know how to get around how to get about to find out. I think you just go listen. I'm really really really really not okay with the way this is going right now and We're going to have to get to the bottom of this. I've got to understand how in the world I can see a payment going in and then it is turn around and remove that does not make any sense and I'm not going to just accept that. Oh that's that they screwed it up. I really have got to understand that you've got to show it to me. I'm not okay with the situation. This is a major problem in our relationship. Are you calling me a liar not yet? But I've got to know that before I can move forward and talk to her about it but not I haven't asked for. I did ask for a bank statement because you got two different banks and so let me. Just tell you listening to you talk. There's other stuff that's gone on where she's Jack around and not told the truth and little white lies and that's why you're fishing so deepen this bond. Am I missing something there? No you got a problem. You got a problem. The two of you need to be sitting in front of a marriage. Counselor for pre-marriage counseling and get to the bottom of this and you bought a car with this woman. Oh my Lord you got a problem. Yeah because you you you you know stuff. You're not telling me right now. That's what that's what's happening. I can feel it so I'm not gonNA digging further the shame in my deal but If you were my son I would tell you what I just told you. And that's get in front of a good pasture. Get in front of a good marriage counselor and start doing some indepth pre-marriage counseling and drag all of these issues out on the table and let's really you know the other times that she didn't tell the truth the other times it was quote white. Lie on quote. These are dealbreakers. This has to be solved. Because you're going to spend the rest of your life questioning everything the woman says if you don't trust her about anything when she goes on vacation when she goes on a business trip when she's when you're out on a business trip and she's home when she's the grocery die every thing is in question one. Everything's in question and that's just life is too short so you've got to get to the bottom of this and feel good about her character to move forward in the relationship that's just man to man talking that has nothing to with finances as far as the finances. Go if this thing bottoms out. You're GonNa be forcing the sale of a car here. I hope your name is on the ownership of the car and not just co signed it and I hope you didn't get messed over to that degree but yeah yeah you've got a mess you gotTa Mash and you need to dig into it before you put a ring on her finger. That's GONNA the. This is an issue. Thanks for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in. We'll talk about your life your money. It's a free call. That's what we're here for the same financial advice and for that matter life advice that your grandmother would only we keep our teeth? I think James Childs our producer. Blake Thompson is our chief production officer here. Kelly Daniel Associate producer and phone. Screener I am Dave Ramsey your host. And we'll be back Hey It's Blake Thompson senior executive producer for the show. You can listen or watch anywhere with the Dave Ramsey show APP on your smartphone the full show or watched the highlights and checkout gave upcoming guests head to the APP store. Download it today. Make more money doing what you love. Check out. Kristie Rights Business Boutique. Podcast Christie's inspiring and quipping women to become successful running their own business hand Christy Wright and I help women all over the country take their ideas and passions and hobbies and turn them into profitable businesses. That you have an idea in your head or dreaming your heart and you've ever wondered if you could make money doing it. I'm here to help. Join US on the Business Boutique podcast where we are equipping. Women to make money doing what they love. Hear more from the Ramsey network including Christie rights. Business Boutique podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey It's james producer of the Dave Ramsey show. This episode is over the check. The episode notes for links to products and services. You've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.

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Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: NPR Illinois' State Week (January 11, 2020)

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network

29:00 min | 10 months ago

Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: NPR Illinois' State Week (January 11, 2020)

"In from Springfield this is State Week. A program of analysis and commentary on the events that made news this past week in Illinois Roy State Government and politics today this bombshell. WBZ report brock state politics and email hinting at a rate cover up the two thousand twelve email from powerful lobbyists. Michael McLean was sent to senior members of then governor Pat Quinn staff in it maclean pleads for leniency in a disciplinary hearing for a state worker and then vouchers for the man's loyalty he has kept his mouth shut on Jones. Ghost workers the rape in champagne and other other items the email read. He is loyal to the administration that this this person could describe such an act of violence silence against another human in such a breezy and dismissive way that race. You know the one in Champaign they just is really beyond me a road this last night and it probably probably is One of the most disturbing and shocking set of facts that I have experience as a member of the legislature. Her needs to be accountability. For what happened even worse. This individual is currently on the state payroll the person who did the right thing by keeping his mouth. Shut what I want to know. Always what is the rape. That's being alleged here. What what exactly are the circumstances around that? What is there a cover up? That was done around that. And secondly what is this ghost payroll in reference to was there wrongdoing associated with then who's responsible trembling email from nearly eight years ago surfaces. It's caused quite a stir in state government and politics and we'll discuss that with the reporter who uncovered the email also a task force. That has been working on ways to bring property tax relief relief issued a draft report. Republicans came out critical. That and more coming up on state week I'm Shawn Crawford with me in the studios of NPR Illinois on the campus of the university. The village Voice Springfield is Charlie Wheeler. He's America's professor and former director of the public affairs reporting program at us is also a longtime statehouse reporter in observer. Also with us in studio is the statehouse editor Brian mackey and joining us from Chicago we have. WBZ's government and politics reporter. Tony Arnold Tony Tony. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me Sean. Don't a you were the one that uncovered this email that we mentioned and we want to get more into it. But let's start at the beginning. How did you come across this? I came across it through a I just filed a freedom of information requests something that myself and other reporters do regularly I it's not like I knew this was is this kind of this. E mail with this information was out there when I filed that Freedom of freedom of information request but when you work for the state government. Your emails are our public record and they're accessible if reporters just ask for them and this one's been sitting there for seven years and I don't think anybody else has asked ask for it The reason I did is because Michael McLean is a central figure in a in an UN as far as I can tell unrelated investigation from the federal prosecutors into lobbying activities at Commonwealth Edison. The power company. That's that's serves Chicago and the Chicago region so so Because Mcclain tied in with commented they. He was their lobbyist for a long time. I just asked for emails. That McLean had with the chiefs of Staffs of the last three governors going back about ten years From from the current Governor Jay Pritzker through Bruce Rounder to Pat Quinn and I got about about three hundred pages of e mails back This one just stopped me in my tracks when I when I read it Tony. What actually was in this email? What was what was the part? I usually mentioned stopped. You in your tracks. This is an email from July thirty first. Twenty twelve written by Michael Mclean at the time again again. He's just a a lobbyist and not just any lobbyist though. He's a very powerful lobbyist who's also very close with Michael Madigan terms of both as a strategist and ah but also as a friend and so in this email. mclane is Asking for leniency. For a state employee who is named Forest Ashby and and Ashby apparently is about to face discipline for not following. Orders in McLean is is asking for leniency. On Ashby's behalf to of then governor Pat Quinn's top aides Gary Hannigan Jerry Sterner and in this in this email he's asking for leniency for Ashby and then McLean ends the email saying but but Gary for God's sake do not let this disciplinary meeting. Get Out of hand. This man is a good compliance science person as I told you the office and the sheriff's love working with him. He has kept his mouth shut. On Jones. Ghost workers the rape in champagne gene and other items his loyal to the administration and I understand that people are cynical about about government in Illinois in government in particular picture but this is not something that as a political reporter for the last several years. Now I've this is not something that I typically they see this was. This was very surprising to me personally. and not just surprising what was in that amendment. I think you had mentioned this before. purdue Talk to other folks about this. You were surprised about the response or lack of response as far as I can tell. There's no there's no replies to this email it's not like Gary a Haniger. Jerry sterner the Quin AIDS row back to them and said Mike. What in the world are you talking about here? there's no there's nothing gene like that and in fact if there's any indication about how powerful and influential Michael McLean was and is as a lobbyist. The next day he he writes them a follow up email and he says I do not know what happened but I know nothing happens accidentally. Ashby Disciplinary meeting was postponed. I thank you this implies that there was action taken to benefit. Ashby because Maclean wrote this there's several interpretations I know to. How McLean is right in his email is he making some sort of threat to Hannity or S- termer that there could be some damaging information out there that that could become public? If if they don't act on Ashby's behalf there could be another interpretation of this email that he's he's just simply asking for some help for a friend. The fact of the matter is we don't know because the the four people equipped to answer what the emails all about the details about. It have not returned calls or emails or social media requests for comment that includes McLean handed. Stir and Ashby Ashby No one has commented it actually took A tip to to stake out a Mike McLean actually actually had lunch at a at a nice downtown. Chicago steakhouse yesterday My colleagues found out about it and rushed over there and caught him as he was leaving. And McLean said that he wasn't going to answer questions about this email and he indicated to didn't either that there might be some discussion going on and with prosecutors or investigators in some way he. He intimated that a prosecutors have asked him to cooperate in their investigation and Dan he left it at that. The implication here is that mclane is not cooperating with prosecutors. Charlie WanNa go to you. You've watched the government for a long time. I think Tony He also mentioned that all the time he seen government. This is not something you would normally run across and certainly not something to be taken lightly. Just get your thoughts on what we've heard so far. Yeah I was actually totally surprised shocked because Yeah I've seen a lot of stuff state government but nothing that would indicate that that someone actually do about a rape that occurred in a covered up. I mean that goes beyond beyond the bounds owns in my judgment. I guess we're used to YUP crooked state officials swiping a few thousand here in a few thousand. They're enacting beurs towards always women but the notion that you would Praise someone for helping to cover up rape. I mean that's just that's as I said it's beyond the balance just you know I'm like at a loss for words and that's the kind of thing that should be investigated I understand senator. Brady's Republican Republican leader in the Senate Bill Brady his asked the Illinois state police to look into the champaign county state's attorney if indeed this occurred in her jurisdiction attention should be looking into it to prosecute. I mean you can't just sweep this stuff under the rug. It's just horrendous and Brian. This came from governor pritzker discovers office this email. But there's no indication the we don't want to speculate that the governor Pritzker knew anything about this necessarily but you did talk with him this week. Are you have you and and you've also seen some other things that have some other Locations where he has spoken this weakest. He weighed in on this at all. Yeah the governor. This week I was didn't appearance a couple days after Tony's and his colleagues story for story on this came out and he was asked Many questions wins about this week. What is your office doing? Are you investigating. Are you calling people. His basic answer was he's given the information to the office of the Executive Inspector General General to investigate and he doesn't really want to go beyond that because he doesn't want to interfere with that investigative process but he apparently had not spoken Bokan to house. Speaker Michael Madigan about it at the time. Although the speaker did later get in touch with the governor and I think it's it's noting not just the governor's governors reaction but how some other lawmakers have reacted to this. It took a day for House Speaker. Madigan who has Tony said is a friend and and and and and mclane is considered one of his top political co strategists and confidence The speaker put out a two sentence statement saying these are extremely serious area so troubling allegations I had no knowledge of the incident referenced in the story and Only learned of this today. I encourage those with any information to come forward and I thought the reaction to that statement was interesting state representative Kelly Cassidy who has been very active on the metoo issue in Illinois. She said it should come as no surprise that he didn't know every single thing that's been revealed has gotten the same response not knowing is foundational and fundamental to the entire design nine of the organization. So you know. Lawmakers used to be very reluctant to come out and criticize the speaker and now we are seeing An increasing boldness among some to say that this is unacceptable. And you know there have been this series of revelations relations over the past few years not implicating the speaker himself but implicating people very close to him in terms of harassment and maltreatment of women and other staff and and this is just the latest revelation that that calls into question. The people with whom the speaker is around himself. Charlie Charlie. Let me go back to you on this. Because Speaker Speaker Madigan he is not mentioned in this email. There's no indication he knew of this e mail necessarily but a lot of people would say Mike McLean is not going to make a lot of moves news. Especially when dealing with the governor's office without the speaker having some knowledge or being involved in some way so I just want to get your thoughts. I know that we're speculating in the sense but But you know the people have a right to be critical of him. At this point I would be surprised. Head McLean said to the speaker. Look I'm going to try and help one of my buddies from Quincy you don't get out of this disciplinary thing and I'm GonNa talk about X Y and Z eh I think when McLean goes anything the the people with whom he's interacting would have their back of the mind This is someone who's very close to. The speaker has influenced with the speaker so I really don't WanNa Cross them. I mean I think. That's Ah the investigation about comment is all about. But I can't imagine that Michael Madigan would condone covering up rape. Well rape was certainly the well can go back on that a Meghan. I A roughly the same age. We're both in her late seventies. I'm fact of about six months older than he is. And as a young guy fifty years ago treatment of women by men was horrible. It was kind of taken for granted but even back then rape was not Condoned in so Madigan was caught by me tune in some of the stuff that when we were younger maybe wouldn't passed off as boys are being boys that kind of nonsense That's one thing but actually the physical violation of another person even way back then. That was not considered justifiable the term rape being in this email I think certainly caught the headlines and rightly so but there was At least another mention in there and that was as Tony I think read from that email earlier. Tony it said regarding Jones Ghost pay rolling in. We again aren't sure exactly. What is being alleged here but there is possibility of putting two and two together right? Well potentially I don't know fact. The fact fact is we don't know because nobody's talking. Nobody's returned our calls That includes to Jones's that I did reach out to that former Senate President Emil Jones and his his wife lawyer Rickman Jones. I reached out to them because at the time this is written in in July thirty first twenty twelve forced Ashby. The subject of this email email was working for the Department of Human Services at a state facility in rush. Ville and his overall supervisor would have been. Laurie Ori Rickman Jones who led at the time the division of mental health and so is this a reference to her as a reference to her husband husband. Email the the longtime state Senator It it's not clear. Neither of the Jones reached out or would return my calls and emails and requests for comment and so That's that's another element of this mystery. It should be noted that goes ghost. Ghost workers goes payroll in is illegal. It's I in fact. There's a sitting state senator who's been indicted for doing that. Very thing for being allegedly doing that very thing on the teamsters payroll and so That is a series element of this to go back to the wear air. Madigan is on this. I found it curious the way that he worded that his initial statement about this email after the story was published. He said that he was. I'm not aware of the incident in the email I I don't know what he's referring to. When he says the incident I I read it as that he's referring referring to the rape and champagne and that means that then he's not acknowledging his statement? What what this reference to Jones's ghost workers is and it's not clear to me whether automatic in knows what that references to or not but I I would add in there in? I guess it's kind of follows up on what I said before. The idea of goes payrolls is is not at all shocking to me. It's No big surprise that there are people who get hired because of their connections so better fact. We've had instances of recently although they were people who were actually working but they were working for the governor's office and they were being paid by some other agency and years and years ago that was kind of a version of ghost payroll but in my mind. Is I say that is that is really nothing. That's let's like filching Jelly beans from the candy store as opposed to talking about covering up an actual rape. Don't need this happened. This email. Well at least happened on Governor Pat. Quinn's watch but have you spoken with the governor heard from the governor regarding You know anything he might know about this. The former governor. It was right once. It was clear that we weren't getting going to be hearing anything from the people on this email we reached out to governor Quinn himself When we talked to him he said that this this was the first that he's heard of this and that he didn't know what the content of the emails referencing And that's that's where that stands at this at this time. It's very possible that he might be asked for the questions about this I to go back to The response ons to this email and the story being published. It's a lot of people have weighed in on it at calling for something to be done and I I have a little list right now of about where we sit at this moment We know that the governor Jay pritzker is office forwarded this email l. to the executive inspector general in addition to that the Senate Minority Leader Bill Brady. He asked the state police to investigate. This Republican Congressman from across Illinois as Attorney General Kwami Raoul to appoint a special prosecutor to look into this several lawmakers From both parties have asked both the. US Attorney's office and the Champaign County State's attorney to investigate this email and the claims in it and then in addition you have the House Minority Leader Jim Durkin asking for a legislative hearings into the email and the content of it including Is forming a committee that would have subpoena powers to compel the people on this email to come forward and testify to lawmakers under oath Speaker Madigan rejected elected that idea and And Dirk and kind of had a his spokeswoman had a snippy comment in return that I guess this isn't a doesn't rise to that And that level of importance to the speaker. But that's that's the kind of the check box list right now of where this is and the response is that this is this is generated so far. Would you be a possibility for the Senate to Heaven Investigating investigation into subpoena powers. The State Senate I don't know what would prohibit that. From from somebody from asking for that to happen. It will continue in this position right now. Where where the Senate president is is leaving office John Koehler ten and so it's not clear who the next Senate president is going to be having read somewhere that one of the candidates Senator Light I Had said suggested that that she would be open to having a hearing in the Senate to get to the root of what happened in this this this email. I think we have not heard the last of this. That's probably clear and this is something that's going to continue to be a subject going forward lawmakers not concession at this point but they will be coming back here and especially as we were the end of the month and in February. And we'll see what happens then. Tony Arnold I know you've got to get going on and beyond some other shows to talk about the same subject so we're going to let you get a get a get away from us here but I appreciate you taking time to be on state week. I appreciate being here. Thanks for having me thanks. Let's turn to another topic that got a little bit less headlines this week but it's certainly something that's on a lot of people's minds in the state of Illinois and that is property taxes always controversial subject Brian. There's been taskforce that was put together. It's been working Lawmakers Putting been working on this for a while now we get a little better idea of what they're talking about or what some of their solutions are. Can you walk us through. What's what's in the final product? Yeah it's a it's a task force like no other that I have scene. I think there were about eighty members of this task force so nearly half of the Illinois General Assembly were as a member of this thing and this came about as governor Pritzker was trying to push through the proposal to put a constitutional amendment on the ballot for the graduated income tax ax and there were some lawmakers. Who say you know you are asking us to Potentially have income tax increases on our constituents silence while the thing we hear most about is that property taxes are too high and so they wanted at least something to be done if not substantive legislation well Then you have a task force in Illinois and so basically the the task force was supposed to have its report out by the end of the year. It missed that deadline. There was a draft wbt of that that was circulating this week and basically it says things that have been out there these. There's no real groundbreaking getting ideas here. Consolidate government taxing districts. We've talked about on the show before how Illinois has thousands upon thousands of taxing districts from Mosquito Abatement districts to your public library and fire protection. And of course school districts are the big Property tax assessors in this state Potentially standardizing standardizing property value assessments across the state Putting tightening up the appeals process. Of course there are some lawmakers who Have private law firm work That specializes in property. Tax Appeals most notably house speaker. Michael Madigan Republicans were very quick to dismiss the findings of this report saying it doesn't go far enough. So the Republicans aren't necessarily happy with what they've heard so far. Have they come up with their roane ideas of they offered up some things that might not be in this more comprehensive report. Yeah I mean the the problem you run into with the property taxes is that it's it's like everything else with state budgeting. It's either a question of raising the amount of money that the state takes in or cutting thing. The amount of spending that the state does and the same thing is true. Since as I mentioned school districts are the big property tax Levy payers in this state. That's where most most of the property tax money goes. And if you're going to reduce the amount of money that school districts are collecting property taxes. You either need to increase just the amount of money they get from other sources namely the state which would mean the state would probably need to raise taxes either sales or income tax or you'd have to reduce the amount of money that the schools are spending and the biggest expense for schools. Are People Teachers and we just went through a four year. Term Governor Bruce Runner who made it sort of his mission in public life to try and reduce the amount of money that Illinois spends on people like teachers by reducing their collective bargaining rights. Taking certain things out out of their union negotiating abilities like Their income and he failed at that so whether there are really realistic alternatives to doing this it. It seems like There's there's still a long way to go before we find that solution. That's going to please everybody and Charlie when it comes. It's too high property taxes. I know there are people that want to put the blame on Jay Pritzker. They WANNA put the blame on. Bruce Rounder Pat Quinn Roy rich but this has been going on for a long time in the state of Illinois. We have had a high property taxes especially in certain parts of the state. I mean they are really high in some areas In as Brian mentioned schools are a big part of that. And there's are some reasons for it and as a matter of fact according to the most recent Data available from the State Department review which collect statistics or mall the taxing districts across the state. Not just school districts but counties and cities and special units the government you know the whole Shebang schools accounted for roughly sixty percent statewide of the property tax bill. This was for the taxes that were paid in two thousand eighteen and end the variance between school. Districts is pretty great and in fact some of the highest property tax rates are in cities or villages villages that have relatively low housing values and property value. So there's a real distortion in there but if you WANNA deal with property taxes this you really have to look at the state share of funding. I went online and looked at a document that comes from the federal government on the way local schools are financed and it compares. What percentage of the school spending in a state state comes from the state local or feds and for example you look at Illinois in Illinois? The state provides forty one percent of the total funding for schools according to the federal report in neighboring Indiana it provides sixty three percent. So if you look and you say Oh property. Taxes are so much lower in Indiana will part of the reason is because Indiana pays substantially essentially more state dollars towards its local schools the Illinois does Charlie real quick on that. I think they're going to be people that say. Well wait a minute. I'm I'm paying to the state and paying locally. What's is the difference? I think the differences people would generally agree that an income tax is based more on one's ability to pay than a property tax the property tax remnants from the from the nineteenth century when the value of the land and possessions. That you own was was probably a good measure of your worth nowadays. That's not true anymore and so we have people on fixed income particular senior citizens that live in an area we're housing values might be going up and suddenly. They're faced with property tax bills that they can't they can handle and over the years. We've tried things like homestead exemptions senior citizens this exemption property tax deferrals to try and mitigate the impact but in my mind. You're never GONNA be able to deal with the reality of high. I property taxes until the state assumes larger share of the cost of funding schools state dollars probably income tax dollars. The only sure way to do it is to give schools additional dollars in. Say That for every state dollar that you get you have to reduce your property tax levy the amount you ask for from property property owners by a dollar. Let's go to our notes from the field. Charlie let's go to you first this last week the Inspector General of the Department of Children and family services this came up with some more heart breaking news and it was that between July first of last year in January first of this year just in week or so ago fifty. Six children died who had had prior contact with. DCFS the agency that's charged with protecting children from abuse and neglect. And it's just another another indication of the deep problems that we have with that agency Brian. Yeah yeah there was a further. I think we talked last week about the first day of recreational marijuana sales while it continued strong for the next several days in at least in the first five days days that the state was selling this product. Ten point seven million dollars is recreational. Marijuana was bought around Illinois some of the stories actually having to halt sales was temporarily while they wait for the next crop of product to come in. Now that's all our time for this edition of State Week and our panel included Charlie Wheeler Brian mackey. Tony Arnold with WBZ get a podcast of the show and NPR Illinois Dot Org production assistance for the program provided by Bob Meyer. I'm Shawn Crawford. You've been listening to state week. A program of commentary and analysis of events in Illinois state politics and government state week is produced in the state capital by public radio station N._P._R.. Illinois this is ideal Eloy public radio.

Illinois rape governor pritzker Speaker Speaker Madigan Michael McLean Brian mackey Tony Tony Ashby Senate Tony Arnold Pat Quinn reporter Rickman Jones Charlie Charlie Chicago senator Michael Madigan
65. Harold and Maude (1971)

Full Cast And Crew

1:24:02 hr | 10 months ago

65. Harold and Maude (1971)

"Hi Jess Hi Beck really excited to meantime so excited that you're here. Everyone is very excited. That you hear a lot of people who listen and know the podcast told me over the years that you gotTa have back on you and gives some people say you and I should have our own. I know but this is saying the ball high philbin nervous now man when you have a massive listenership like we do we have to keep you feeding the beast. How many listeners do you have at this point? Thousands thousands across the world as well. We do in fact. You're on today really you know I mean for the I love you but I want to feed the there is a British on. I'm sure there is and specifically. I want to target the critical. Would you have a huge listenership incorrectly. North West London and then this episode is going out so all of our fans. I don't know who it will. Your family listened to a podcast. Some people come on the pot and then they say my family doesn't even listen and now my family won't listen. My parents have no idea what put us is or how to access it. They definitely would send them pull cost occasionally and they just say That's very nice and they read. They read the version Russian of the daily instead of listening to. That's great. I love that. Well we're here today to talk about Harold and Maude which was a film that you chose now in season two. I'm trying out different catchphrases catchphrases. Yesterday I had a guest on and I said I'm bringing on people. I love to talk about movies. They love I loved that when he wrote that I thought that was great. I think that's great. Okay have have you got another one. That's better I don't know today I'm trying out beck's full cast and crew. It's me you and the movie. Oh I like that. I don't know that's that's good. No I like people. I love about movies movies. They let's just beautiful and nice way to start the New Year with full of love. Your the first episode of season two. Okay well I'm honored to be here Harold and Maude. You're from from England as we've noted new can't United States in one thousand nine hundred ninety nineteen ninety seven and you were how old then if you don't mind US quiz fourteen not no. I'm joking I I was twenty two okay to think about as a long time ago. So you're twenty two in one thousand nine hundred three so that means that your formative years teenage year from I can't remember your mattis's bad. It's fantastic. I know that I saw them for the first time when I was nineteen and I was at college then so that would make it kind of ninety five. Okay Okay so you started ninety five and like many of us experiencing during saying content from the seventies and the early eighties. You're coming to ten twenty years after the fact but the power of films like this Yup is that it has the power to redefine itself. It's about the philosophy of the movie. Perhaps more so than the movie the movie will get into that. The film was famously. A bomb at the time and then took on this really impressively outsized reputation subsequent. The two. So did you see this. You probably did you see a theater release. I saw in a movie theater and also I have to say just right off the bat the next year how I'm going to be fifty years old. And that really makes me feel hugely eighteen. Seventy one seventy one. But when I think of films from the seventies I always think that they happen so two years ago and I mind that's like thirty years ago not fifty years ago. So that's just I feel like that's pretty huge okay. Did you see it in an art house cinema. Did I actually worked at an art house. How Cinema Queue Really? Yes I did. I worked two years in college. I was university in the north of England in Leeds in Yorkshire and I ran the late show at a arthouse cinema in Leeds for two years ago. I love mazing. What was the late show? What time it was as midnight was appropriate midnight hours? I worked well when I did that on Saturdays. I go in at ten and then I left a three bloody hell is pal. Everybody's tyree very London go home. John cleaned up some of the sick. That was one of the. It's true. Tell me some of the after our the well. It was usually the same films it was usually with ally all the exercise. Okay so you had one film. That was programmed for months. It's and then occasionally he would change it up the guy who ran it with changing with nil night of the exorcist. I mean I know so. The exit was particularly the one where I smoke in the theater. You know any kids you smoke in the in the balcony but it still remains because it was bill in over one hundred years ago it remains the only movie theater in Britain Lit By gas lamps still. My job was to light the guys come out still to this day. Still I checked just to be show. I had when I arrived I had to light the gas lamps in a Dickensian mounted with a special kind of up in the alchemy. Just waiting to burn down the whole placement people smoked people smoked. I showed up for sale like a Saturday night fever Redo I would have like soot on my. Yeah exactly just covered all the stuff that came with that stick. It was amazing. So what was your. What was your role? What was your job? You the manager manager you. Yeah I took my role was to light. The aforementioned gas lamp kills exactly the gas slams. Sell the tickets. Which essentially meant all my mates in free who all kind of hit around McLaren? Jump the line and serve popcorn. Wow that's basically what I did and then and then clean up the sick after the exile seriously I know is bad because people really drawn because I students they were very drunk. Okay I understand understand that for maybe with Neil and I but not for the exercise. I was scared I think really fresh pies. So that's where he I saw Harold and Mon yes and I never heard of it. What were you into at this time? What did you look like you Goff Stonier Jock Doc? Pretty much yeah shoe gazer. That's that's a British term. Isn't it a few days. I mean that that's like someone who's into that really like slow slow dirge Lake Sad music shoe gaze. That's a that's a British musical indy. No no like machine to me that type of as they like. What kind of trip hop like pool table? You don't know this. I'M GONNA have to musicologist this. I've maybe I was just deny. Denying it on my shoe gaze. Okay so you know how like they have northern soul and showcasing in initially known as dream pop is a sub genre of indie alternative rock that immersion the United Kingdom in the late nineteen eighty S. Well obviously I was just saying. I'm from the balcony keeping up. This is that by it's a theory astounding mixture of obscured vocals guitar distortion and Effects Feedback overwhelming for example who give me examples. I actually have it wrong when I cited the example that I cited the my bloody Valentine glazed never heard of that list of shoe gazing musicians. My lush okay. Okay Bardo Pond. No nineteen verve really so it went on this wicket went from my bloody valentine driver her. Okay well now. I don't think I was a shoe gate I ernest. I know that this was the perfect film for me. I was already Z.. Wearing the sources in earnest gnarly. darkly I'm thinking of like what I was into an how I dressed right and so you you know this gives us a visual virus. I was probably wearing much more. I'm wearing in honor of the film today today. We can do fashion fashioned. I'm wearing some florals. I've got a floral number on like a floral print dress so kind of like a grungy dress would have been wearing with some doc Martin. I'm not wearing the lace up high top DOC martens or the regular shoe no the lace up and they were straight black doc martens. They were both ready. Yeah got those and some sort of Cardigan I was definitely wearing today and today. I've actually matched the Cardigan with some. Leg warmers Thomas. I'm wearing like women's to in honor of mode because I think she would have formed like we'll do you remember who you saw this movie with when you saw the I saw this movie on my own. Okay now Online there are. I think there are certain types of movies where that experience is paramount for me. It was seeing Brazil York Square cinema in new haven by myself. Yeah Yeah so immersed in the movie and then walking out into the world again and seeing it with totally new is because of the movie you have that type of lately and you know I was really into going to the cinema and I've been doing it for through the end of Highschool in London and it was an experienced I loved and yeah I saw some way own at midnight so I could just just sit back and enjoy it and I will never forget the the opening credits and Harold First onscreen suicide attempt and he drops the needle on. Don't be shy Stevens off Shah just that you feel in gone all nobody will and it pulls back and you see him in his fantastic blazer and his and his tie and I was hooked right from that first first minute I just thought this is the most and of course the pulls back and reveals this is a fake suicide attempt and he is tricking his mazing mother. So Yeah Yeah. That was my first experience of Harold and I did come out changed. I came out of my art house. Cinema leads thinking the world looks really different today and And it's never has been the same since Colin Higgins who famously this was his first screenplay has one of those only in Hollywood stories where he was in film school and he was working working as a pool. Boy Any showed a draft of Harold and Maude which I think at the time he had intended just too short. He showed it to film producer. Louis this who showed it to Robert Evans so at the time was a big paramount. And that's how he that's how this thing went through the mock nations to become a go project as they say in. Hollywood would seem that you refer to the brilliant opening scene was very much what Colin Higgins had in his screenplay. This is one of those movies where someone hasn't seen it for the first first time. You're SORTA jealous. Glad for them because they get to have an experience that you can't really have because when we watch that now you're sort of you're watching it for how it's put together in the meticulousness of showing us this fake suicide which you don't know fake until until after the fact and all the more impressive for Nineteen seventy-one starting starting a movie in such a deadpan. Right kind of like I said black comedy way where you're sort of like Holy Shit. Where are we going? Where is this going? Yeah Yeah I'm not time continues for at least the first twenty five minutes throughout those early you know. Fake suicide attempts on a dog as well. They're very dark. I mean is this is it. Am I correct seeming. This one of the first black comedies. Why would I don't? I don't know if it's one of the first. I'm trying to think of other example. Well I mean I mean. The media touched on in terms of disaffected youth movies and would be the graduate right. which is I believe? Nineteen sixty seven. So it's a number of years before this. That's not as duck. It's it's not as dark but it has a lot of similar rejection of parental values. It doesn't have quite the urine oddball and that's okay. I mean I think one of the things. This movie has always spoken to people about. Is that sense of otherness and not fitting in that ultimately being okay. Let's watch a clip. Let's do that. I was going to see the scene. Where Herald Meets Maude? What is your name Herald? How chasing Hyundai Module Reshad Amadou MacAulay Mortality Gymnast? Thank you great friends in your lift. No thank you. I have my own car. Well I must be off. We still have to meet a cat. I no no I thought not take my com. Few tidbits have for you back in the scene number one ruth. Gordon never could drive a car really driving scenes. No Ruth. Gordon's were harmed in any any driving scenes. That's amazing number two prior to this there at a funeral there inside a church are sitting in the Pew. There's a close up of a coffin of the deceased stint says perma seal which is the brand of the coffin right and Hal Ashby. The director became so obsessed with this bizarre sort of commodification of death represented represented in like a snappy slogan That you are perma sealed in your crap for all time. He was like we have to get close to the close up shot of that. Little logo the perma-seal logo that which I love that type of stuff. And then I believe the Production Manager Onset told HAL Ashby story about his father's funeral where randomly a high school marching band walked past in performance during his father's very somber funeral. We thought that was such a great touch that they use that just prior to the scene. Cool there's the marching band at walked through. Did you have a connection to one character or another the first time that you saw or now. Yeah I've been thinking about that I'll actually because I was the same H.. As Harold when I first saw it I was nineteen. Is He's supposed to be one thousand nine hundred that he's GonNa. He's nineteen going on twenty and she's seventy nine going on eighteen so I think it's really interesting to reflect. The I felt a huge connection to mood immediately. Even even though I was the age of Harold and you know I think more I've been thinking about this so much because I've been concerned when I re watched watched it last week that it wouldn't resonate him the same way or I wouldn't identify with and it hasn't changed at all. I feel as much love and warmth warmth and empathy for mortars. I did then and I. Yeah I I think I think I spy to be more like I have to say you're doing a pretty good run up by the time you get there. Yeah but when I was nineteen I really imagined that my eight year old self would keep birds live in a train car and Picnic on construction auction sites and liberate trees. I came out of the cinema on a kind of shell shocked remarkable experience. But there was nowhere to look lockup anything about the film Pre Internet Internet. Exactly have a copy of it anywhere either and so it just seemed very dreamlike like ninety five. We must have had de Lis. Yes in other words Amazon and just buy one online no so I had to wait and it was the middle of the night so I had to wait he. He wants a vhs. Twenty four hour tower records or not in this of Yorkshire now. So I had to wait and then go to one of those amazing old Dvd I'm trying to think if life is better now that have instant gratification like you could literally on your phone believing the theater or download waiting for you. I know I think about this too and I miss it actually. I miss that feeling of learning little snippets about bands and films through what people shared with you in the pub or the library where I would. It's actually went to the library to take out vinyl and would kind of if they didn't have a you know a violent film FEM. LP in I would just kind of look at the index card and imagine what the band was like based on the image so the same sort of thing with a movie. After I'd seen it I was there. I had no way of of of obtaining seeing by this point I loved all American films really fully. Immerse must gone through the John Hughes. You know obsession and I was Seattle. So anglophile American what do they have determined for it. No because we hate people like that we dismiss them readily. Nobody wants to admit everyday admire America up I loved and certainly in the eighties I loved. I loved everything. America pretty in pink loved potassium pain. It's funny because loves you. Have this sort sort of anarchist soul like worship the most over sentimentalize D- kind of high school. Because there was nothing like it. So Oh you know prissy and pink I guess you know my high school experience in London was like you know the breakfast club if might lead director she. I would love to see yes I would. I should do a remake. We should suggest still around right. He is I'm GONNA ride him. You know it's funny. Say That about sort of looking through the card catalogue. I was thinking king that one of my formative experiences around the same time was video store related because browsing was how you discovered things exactly. It wasn't like you just did. Would everybody on social media told you to watch right. It was recommended for you on Amazon along with your other picks exactly so you would go to the video store and you would you would if you were me. You would just take an hour to selectively browse and make decisions based on an arcane set of criteria which could be cover art blurbs staff recommendations used to be a way of like how toby's working tonight he usually pretty good okay. I'll take a chance on something like that. And that's so I would get into these nineties American things like Hal Hartley for you or go strangers but those videos still recommendations were tough too because there was often the guy who worked in the video store who would who would kind of harass you to watch certain things that you liked and then I would end up feeling really pressured to take home. You know they WanNa see when actually I just wanted to watch. It's like the Jack Black character in high fidelity exactly. It's exactly like that on on dude play. Don't WanNa hear what's next. What's next say little loopy Lou Mitch Ryder and the Detroit? Wheels righteous brothers. Never mind no not never mind you tell me right now. What's wrong with Russia's brothers thing I just prefer the other? How can it be bullshit to state a preference so it took me a while to get a vhs vhs copy but it always seemed to me like it was incredibly out of place as a as a counterculture film from nineteen seventy one out of place in your time or out in any time at any time at any time? I think that's one of the reasons is held up so well is. It doesn't seem to me that it speaks to what was going on in in California in seventy one a surly you think about kind of Altamont a Nixon Vietnam and but it's all these these threads it's in that connected to its time but it seems you know in some ways out of time. Well there's there's a negative review of the film did from Roger Ebert at at the time famously. Only gave it one and a half out of four stars. Why well I will quote it to you? He said what we get finally only his movie of Attitudes Herald. Is Death Maud life and they manage to make the two seem so similar that life's hardly worth the extra bother now. The part of that that I think is actually speaks to what you're talking about in a positive sense is that it's a film of attitudes movie of attitudes in that. I mean it's not so much the performances per se to me. I think it's the I mean. Yes Ruth Gordon is Ruth Gordon and his amazing almost always in everything The movie itself as a movie as a piece of screenwriting in writing as a piece of directing as a piece of editing as a piece of cinematography. I have some I I would take some issues with it. It's not. It's not good in a lot of those ways so it but but tell me more about what you mean. Well it's give me some exotic okay. So here's an example like Colin Higgins was a first time screenwriter. CONAN's would go on and write a lot of very successful movies. Silver streak nine to five huge hit movies but this was the first time script and I think you can feel that in the final result Hal Ashby although he had won an academy award as an editor for in the heat of the the night prior to this. This was his second film and I don't think how Ashby is yet the Hal Ashby of being there shampoo. WHO coming home? You know the kind of era defining movies that I think he would be known for over a couple of decades. I agree three by also think that the seed of what he is best known for in so many ways. which is these naive heroes? That's right that and and I suppose you could be very critical in a row E. Beltway and say that this is a precursor to was Anderson's is remove and yet I mean there would be no way Sanderson without Harold and Maude. Well that's a very good example because I would say rushmore which is a lot to herald and moths for for a director may be similar at a similar place in his career. I mean to me. Rushmore is more systematically complete movie it. It's it has a little bit more going. I'm for it. Granted it's taking place and being made twenty years after this was being At least but for me. This isn't a movie that I looked to and and I think there's an acting performance that so magnetic. There's a visual style. That's so unique. It's it's the it's the overall attitude of the movie which is what gets into you and it's what stays with today's with a criticism. I'm just saying no. I think it's a really valid observation and I think you know in terms of performances and direction and script. Yes it's not a perfect film but it certainly nothing is no. Nothing is but it's ninety one minutes. Let's of absolute joy. And yes and it's also I think unlike rushmore and I love Rushmore. Is You know it'd be no Max Fisher without without Butko but I think that actually harold and mood holds up in a way that. I'm not entirely sure rushmore. Does I would feel more comfortable. Showing wants to be the teenager. Litmus test I would feel more comfortable showing Harold to my going on fifteen year old. I would rushmore and in part because I think she'd find find Rushmore Boring and I also think rushmore. Sa- me one of the reasons I love it is. It reminds me so much of the mood. And when you say you're more comfortable showing doing it to her. Because you think this you harold and Maude would these you. It's work. It's magic immediately. More show than rushmore. Would yeah I also it's darker it's more it pulls a lot of John much more controversial. I mean Max. Fischer's romance with What's the name? What is the name? Lovely cool miss know. Somebody Olivia Williams. Great she was great. She's great these Are scrubbed Oh are they. I mean look. Rushmore is rushmore. It's amazing just think about the their relationship and then think about and then think about Harold and mood and think about you know how it's crazy groundbreaking and remarkable. All of that is and how did that. I didn't even happen. How did it happen? And why did the sex scene get caught. Well we can talk about that. I mean Hal. Ashby wanted to film a sex scene between bud court art and record numbers in real life during the making the film was I believe twenty three years old. He just happened to have this face. That was credible so teenage looking. There's a there's a post coyle scene where instead of smoking a cigarette bud. Cort is blowing bubbles. Yes and they are both sort of obviously unclothed under under the bedclothes but you see more of him than ever. She's working and how Ashby to his credit he wanted to show both youthful skin and aged skin. I think would would have been amazing and provocative and of course the studio was not interested in that at all and when they released a trailer for the film I believe there was a little snippet of of. I'm not sure if it was them making out saying I don't have the I think on the criterion DVD. You can see that trailer which allegedly got the a trailer editor fired aired somewhere in the studio freaked out. It doesn't appear in the film and they never knew how to market the film. It like flopped. Not only because I think it was so hard to market to be fair to the marketing department who never gets really a fair shake and why should they. But you know both Colin Higgins and Hal Ashby and bud cort and really everybody hated the original poster which was just this black and white sort of looked like a mimeograph with just harold and Maude. Auden a black and white photo told you really nothing because on the nights of bike yet no and even the motorbike one with the flowers and whatnot. That's not really also what the movie. Here's about assigning flower or film of the type so they didn't know how to make a poster Kyle. Ashby tells the story that I think in Baltimore. There was a theater owner who had had his own budget to market the film that he would book and his theater and he did his own poster he led with eight hundred nineteen year old romance and it worked the the thing that that all the filmmakers were saying studio. You've got to lead with the thing. I'm just curious about four or five. They're like I have to go see but of course the studio wouldn't do that. So that's part of why failed and also came out at a time when I think there was some other other movies in one thousand nine hundred ninety one because it was nominated for Golden Globe. She it was not being nominated for Golden Globes for whatever that means yeah. Are you still Golden Globes watcher. I didn't even you grew out of that. I grew out a few years ago. I think as as you age you give up the golden sit just last too long. And it's ridiculous and Ricky Jay Smith hoisting again and I'll for goodness sake I mean I don't expect or didn't expect it to be Oscar a winning issue but what was it up against in seventy one that you mean what other films released in Nineteen seventy-one while I'm glad you asked Bax because you can find out. Can't you clockwork orange diamonds ends are forever 007 French connection shaft last picture. Show Dirty Harry. That's that came out around the same time. Willy Wonka now. This is a real real combination nation of amazing quality cinema. And the mega man. clute very influential movie McCabe and Mrs Miller Planet ahead of the apes there certainly nothing. That's really as sort of bold in original as this movie. The French connection true. But I mean that's a genre pick yes acute it at the highest level. This is a weird movie. It's weird that God made it Robert Evans who died a couple of months. AGO has come a couple of times in the PODCAST. Because there's a few movies where they really wouldn't have gotten made if not for paramount and Robert Evans at the time. who was at least open to material like this? How ash was actually the the person who pushed back when the studio approached him to direct this movie and he said You know I think Colin Higgins should direct this call? Higgins wanted to direct the movie. Right he said you know. I think the guy who wrote it should probably directed at such a piece of specific vision. Like what what am I going to bring to it. And the studio to placate Colin Higgins. Did the thing that they do. which is to say okay you? You never directed a feature film before like the budget and this is going to be a million and a half dollars or something like we don't really go around giving out the first time directors but I'll tell you what we'll give you seventy five thousand dollars. I want you film a scene for us. How and that'll be your test and you never know if you do a great job? Maybe you can direct it and did he. He did although he always said his fateful error was it. He thought he would show them how efficient he was so instead of doing one scene. Well he said I'm going to do three scenes and then they're I'm GonNa say wow we gave the guy seventy grand do one scene but he did three. We've got a higher him. Of course what happened was he bit off more than he could chew right and they probably were never really seriously going to give him the job. Anyway right but I mean my God to look into Hal. Ashby even film how Ashby was a pretty great thing and I think it's as much hal. Ashby it is anything. Do you think that how Ashby saw himself in mood. I like to think there's a little bit of you know how Ashby a Bouma either. No I was born in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine right He. What do they call it? In this country. The silent generate the missing generation the quiet generation. Really Tom Brokaw says in England they call them more babies. Sure right but when was house. twenty-nine the lucky few kids name for generation. It says the often overlook generation of the lucky few those born from twenty nine through forty five after the greatest generation. But before the first baby boomers. Okay so yeah he really. I mean you know. This is modes journey speaks to in his journey to in a way he fully embraced the counterculture right. Oh absolutely I mean. He was smoking pot in the fifties before it was even cool before anyone even knew what it was. I think we got the best generation named anything generation right because I was talking the other day about the ninety S. What a pathetic era era so there really is not a lot I mean? It's it's probably the worst era the worst decade in history. The nineties culturally. It was when I watched Harold move for the first time. But that's not the heritage doesn't have anything to do with the ninety S. That's just happened to be when you discovered it right but I mean go t's grunge like disaffected disaffected. We'll met I know but we were full of Shit and we didn't. We weren't that way no of course not everyone else was. This is one of the things about coming back to this film. Twenty five years after having seen it so many times I've seen it for years and years and I was nervous. Actually actually I did think you're nervous to watch because you you. I thought I might hate it. I I work in a he knowing you might feel cringe but you know I didn't cringe a tool. There was nothing nothing about it so I've had this experience with. I mean I think now the older kids and I'm very rewarding and it's the worst thing to do this it really is usually watch that. Don't hold up a all of them know well doesn't hold up. Maybe it holds up for me but that that might sneeze so ghostbusters. Wow actually cynical back to back to the future. She loves okay. I'll talk about that. What is it about that? I think appeals to the of Stranger things loving one thousand nine hundred thing retro thing. That's happening right now. That's a good enough reason to right into it. Ghostbusters was was purely about the fact that there are no women in it. Sure nothing other than wearing a floaty nightie unturned. Sta uh-huh criticism right. But that kind of is the same for all the films. Yeah but that from the eighties which we know her context. Can't you put that in. Context doesn't doesn't mean in the whole films have many moments where I mean ten minutes into footloose and then I think well this is not such a good idea. It sure is us. There is a time to every purpose under heaven time to laugh a time to weep. Time to mourn it is time to ditz really. We won't watch this so you know but but I feel like this so I was worried worried that this would be a sort of rookie pitcher show moment for me. You know watching something that I watched so many times and I loved and of course it's it's so much more beautiful and meaningful and radical and tubby breaking in ways the rocky horror picture show sadly is not and I think you now I was watching it at the same time as I discovered cabaret so I really had this movie or anything devoting your time to perform in cabaret both both things but cabaret the movie and so I had this you know mode and Sally Bowles Obsession. What good is sitting gene? The county hear the music. Play Chum. Come to the cavalry down the knitting the book and the broom. It's it's time for holiday is a cab to the Kabyle Apple Right. This is really making a lot of sense. If you knew that the agency some really WANNA agent to sort of a bizarre bazaar geriatric eccentric. That's your hopeful. There may be less Sally Bowles now. Now that I'm only I I have so much knitwear it's true you're a little all too fashionable to sort of get there. I think you'd like to think very fashionable. I think it's pretty radical. The a eight nearing during eighteen year old woman could be seen in this light could be the love. Interest could represent the summer of love. Could be you know Just the could embody it could be the focus of this film. Has It ever happened. Since is there another film that gives there was the recent Michael Hanneke film or a Mike. Leigh film or the aged couple was facing mutual death. You know that that will happy-go-lucky. We go lucky Remember the one that was his wife was dying. Eitan what you're talking about which one it came out like a couple years ago and it was it was about like late stage and married and there was no no. No maybe it was Lamar. Yeah it's really amazing. That was both of them. That wasn't just I. They were both old Jesus they both were old and they don't want to go to the cinema and reminded of youth backs. I don't WANNA I don't WanNa look at the cool for now that you've got you've got harold his incredible. Can we talk about his face. Clean his face. If you WANNA talk about Bud cort we can talk about quarter. I have a few points to make I have contention which again this is just simply looking at acting style acting ability at a at a at a relatively young long age for an actor actually think one of the weak links in this movie is but court I think that he does not have the acting skills to stand. Hand opposite a Ruth Gordon and actually deliver a believable connection or relationship and for me. It's one of the big kind of hang ups that I have have with the movie. And I get that his look is icon and absolutely perfect Colin Higgins didn't want but court he wanted someone else. I don't know I'm on ABC. WHO Like Jason Schwartzman? Is that what you're kind of of of the at the time I guess we'll just go into our alternative casting segment back okay. Well here's some people that were considered at the time John. Rubinstein was Who Carnegie had written the part four interesting Richard Dreyfuss? Really how old. How old was he at the time? Twenty six twenty five. But he's all wrong. He's he's No. He's manic and Bob Alabam. That's amazing was eighty years old when he was ten years ago so I I don't think that's wrong. Although I would love to see that I I would love it. And now it makes sense that I'm going to Google Bob Alabama in one thousand nine hundred ninety one picture of him. Because you're GONNA say I mean it's a different ways bold. I think certainly a little Dreyfuss ask I would say so. I don't think he has that kind of addams family esque right power also also just you know yeah. You're you're the type of fan that you can't see anyone else in the point is well made. I'm betting on savage. Yeah okay now. That's interesting. I'll consider that I think the most interesting thing that Butko does break the fourth wall and that's about it really. Oh no no. I don't want you to come around but I'm I mean I'm considering this now. I think there are two to opt Tutu due to occurrences of breaking the wall occur. Do you remember what they are. You can tell me. I'm not sure I can remember exactly where they fall in the film. Okay well the first one is when the first computer dating girl fleas than Bud. Cort looks to the camera and gives a really sly look which is held for almost uncomfortable. Beat eight yeah that was not scripted. That was ad libbed onset and Hal. Ashby kept it in. And then there's another scene later on where he gives the finger to his mother other as she retreats and that also was ad libbed even before he breaks the fourth wall he smiles in Ainley crazily. Well well that's the one. I'm talking about one moment in the first one. Where where the where they chase? After he chases off the first computer eight now what what were they phone. The computer dating isn't it. I thought it was. I had computed. No but isn't that how she's bringing the maybe that's a questionnaire that she's doing yes she needs to talk. Talk About Vivian. Pickles come on hold on. Let's finish with BUD cort. I know you're eager to get off the subject. Because you're taking I. You've you've made you trying it. Look there are Bud cort performances that I love notably in heat He plays the corrupt owner of the diner. He accepts an ex-con into his kitchen and the ex-con is like really grateful for this simple job to try and make a very incremental. Start on a on a straight and narrow life and when bud cort gives him the four one one on how. It's going to go down down break week through told me to come by here since you have a job so you know this kind of operation. Yeah Mental McGregor Grill but if you you tour. Let's the dishwasher. West tables an empty the garbage to give me a hard time a report you loaded drunk stealing and I will violate you back so fast. Twenty five percent of your take on kicks back to me again. grison check it out change in the bed. What are you waiting for? Have you seen Michael. Yes crime for a while right. I came out. I want a gun talk about absence of right. Well there's a couple of interesting female characters died of an aura. Ashley Judd No it's interesting as ruth. Gordon No oh no he has the look. I don't think at this time. He had the chops but Jerry. You're I don't know if he has to do that much. Does he have to do that. Much I it is his performances moving and beautiful and he doesn't have to do very much. Well I think that he doesn't do very much. And you've probably talk yourself into believing that it's a virtue all I'm saying is I think if you step out of the movie you could imagine an actor doing more and I think that if the actor could do more I think there would be more dialogue between them in a way that might be more meaningful one of the things that he does do well. And we'll we'll play this clip really really the scene. That was the audition scene for for actors being considered for the role of Herald. I was was when I was a boarding school in Chemistry lab. I was in the cleaning that up so I decided to do experiment sexual sexual stuff. That game mixing very scientific. There's this massive explosion. It knocked me down. Blew out a huge hole in the floor. There's boards and bricks and flames of figured you now time to lead. My career in school was over so I went home. My mother was given a party so I just went right up the back stairs into my room turned out the light and I got this fine field doorbell. I wouldn't have to the banister and these two policemen came in found him and told her that I was Kim in the fire. She put one one hand up to her forehead. The other should reach downs groping for support. This long yeah sided men that I enjoyed being dead. I understand a lot. Have people enjoy being but not read it just backing away from gluck. That's praise pays three amazing. It's agreed seen. He's he's very good in it However that's you know that's too right so it was the end of the film is and that's part the problem is if he's capable of much of that and I think that the structure of the movie where he so shut down for really well at least half of the movie then? I think that's kind of the. That's that's one all the problems that I have with his performance in there. That's really his fault because when you look at that I would like to see a little more of that in the beginning part. But you don't have to be in order to render you know a disaffected youth. Will maybe a little bit more of that a little bit less of the fake suicides and the dating the dating is probably the most extraneous rainiest part of the movie. I would say like you don't need. We could count for exactly. There was a lot of cutting I mean they cut all of Syracuse Zack's bizarro sculptor. Character Stein. I would have have lights more of that too. That would have been more apparently HAL. Ashby cut the hell out of Ruth. Gordon really such an can we. Is there any way we can see. No I don't know again criterion. I don't know you're the Harold and Maude expert. Presumably criterion did I do. I need to return to be. I don't know if there's a different cut of the movie there however okay at the end yeah with the head down down yeah. The reason he's doing that is he can't convincingly cry on screen and in that because that's an acting one on one I mean let's say you're director and your onset and you have mud court and you have this incredible piece of dialogue right. Do you want your actor to be on camera as he. He visibly wells up and begins crying or do you want him to be unseasonable because his head is in his hand so it's not it's a choice that's made because the actor at the time and again he's twenty two years old. I'm not saying that he should be the end and be all. But I'm saying that I think his limitations of visible. Oh no I'll give you that. I also think reminding me. A huge amount of Andrew McCarthy Broderick in to I was really how about a Matthew Broderick. Yeah Andrew McCarthy Would Andrew McCarthy would be a really interesting herald. I think deer in the headlights on a remake it though all day because there's been no of course they will they ruin everything's stage productions. I was googling them in Paris. That ran for a number of years. That's an incredible scene. Ruth Ruth Gordon's listening in. That scene is amazing. It just shows you sometimes. That incredible acting is listening. The way she her empathy for him right carries is it and without her. It really wouldn't work without the whole film. Wouldn't work now so it's ironic that She only came. I'm into it as kind of a last choice. How Ashby Kinda wanted to go with like I think he wanted? Vivian pickles to do it. And you want an English actress. And I think I didn't realized is that that was who he wanted and Vivian. Pickles is so perfect and she's her own clothes for the politics. You didn't know that I didn't here. I'm GonNa tell you a little bit about who was considered for Maude. Okay Bash. We felt monitored ideally European and his list of possible actresses included Hagi Ashcroft Edith Evans Vince Gladys Cooper and Celia Johnson. I don't know any of those people are Peggy Ashcroft would have been great. WHO's Peggy Ashcroft is a British actress I know that but I mean give me a her her gives her career spanned more than sixty years? La Linea no Louis Rainier Pola Negri MINTA durfee. MINTA durfee is a great thing. I'm sad that Minta don't you think that you would change your name. Your name was Minta dirt. Now they're starting names weird that you have to key Yeah Minter. Winter is one of them. And then I N. T. A. M. I. N. T.. MINTA MINTA Hungarian POPs Agatha Christie. Wait what Christie Andress La- Woah announced that she was going to be more ruth. Gordon indicated that in addition she heard that Edwige fuel-air Elizabeth Bird Nia ah mildred network. Mildred dunnock and Dorothy stickney have been considered but she beat them all to it away. Just to refinish are Herald Herald after John Savage. There is one that we didn't mention and who is indirectly the reason why we have the iconic Cat Stevens Soundtrack. which we need to get to Elton? John was considered for. Hey wait really yes because I know that he was the first choice for the music will. Ashby had seen Elton John Live and hoped that he would also do the music music but they actually had a quite a sophisticated level of conversation before. Elton sort of realized that he couldn't do it or didn't WanNa do it or didn't have the time to do it right right. That's a bizarre. That's a that's like there are some ideas that you're sort of glad through the haze of pot smoke didn't come to fruition. I think Elton John Herald is probably one of them. Is He capable of living interior life. No that's just the strangest thing I'm just thinking of pinball wizard as Harold and that does doesn't you know it's not happening. I mean even even just thinking about Elton John. He's music in this. It would be bizarre. I I could see the music working which songs soaping out trouble for closer. Sure Tiny Old Dancer Candle in the wind. You'll song your song in place of what you'll song instead of trouble. Yeah I WANNA play Vivian. Pickles clip because I love love love. Vivian is a great name pickles roles. Vivian pickles this is like Minta should have changed. You can't get better than this. So the the senior referring to before is the dating questionnaire scene gene which which is one of my favorite scenes because I love transitions in scenes. Were something is happening at first and then something else starts happening and what starts happening happening is she at first is answering the questions for herald but then just switches over to what she thinks. Do you often not so perhaps closer. Fantastic we'll put down. See not sure. uh-huh is the subject of sex being over exploited by all mass media. Do you sometimes Have headaches backaches. After a difficult day inside doing admiral do you think the sexual revolution while this is is going on. Do you find the idea of wife swapping distasteful. Even find the question distasteful tasteful. Do Okay and. She's so good being pickles. God love her. Vivian still alive. Eight years old last dozen actor in nineteen ninety nine on an episode of Love. How do you say this mid mid summer mid summer? Well if it was murders midsummer spelled that way. Because it's pretentious. Is that how they spell midsummer. It's summer what does that mean. Is it a location. Is it a thing it sees name. Isn't it what is I don't know either. I'm making up might be a detective. No this is your why British detective series. No sorry to disappoint you John. NETTLES is Tom. Barnaby there's no midsummer midsummer. I think it's pronounced like that. That's just that way Danish film from those mid some. It's it's summer we've been pickles. What's great about Vivian? Pickles in the movie is You know I don't know if you share this opinion. She's not all bad. I was just having no. Oh she's not all bad in fact she's you know tolerant of Salih of the. I mean she's not like us that that first scene when she you know. It's the second suicide attempt after the dinner party when she walks in and he is in the bath. Tub and there's blood spirit really really gruesome an awful and I haven't shown it to my teenager because now seems a bit extreme and she takes I mean she does say it's too much going too far but she takes exciting stride. I'm it's amazing. Yes I kept thinking. You Know Herald go out and volunteer do something for someone else seventy one. There's a little what to do a little bit of the self involvement is. I don't know it's kind of like what you're saying about sort of lack of female roles and maybe some movie from the eighties. When you look at something like this I get it where nineteen seventy-one anyone? We're all disaffected at the time of the world is disaffected. There's all sorts of horrible things going on but it's kind of like okay. I mean swanning about misery once once you go volunteer somewhere man go feed somebody. Don't just you know. Take a blow torch to your new sports car which is Beautiful Jaguar. My God I liked the of Cleveland that would have been definitely so. Would you you champagne socialist. I'll be real now collection of tote bags like you promised one type back and I realize now I forgot my herald more buttons so my God Unacceptable Collection of Herald and movie really really. Do I vintage from seventy one or five years. I've got one in Paris. Well I've got a variety of them. I'm going to have to send you one. Okay shall we talk about the music. Let's please talk about cats because because we can't talk about herald and mode without talking about Cata Yousef you you really cannot which is an interesting thing. Maybe more so than any other movie I could think of. I was trying to think of other films. Where the soundtrack is this important and crucial to the film and it's completely different? Way Than Scorsese films that yeah well one. You'd have to first start with films where one musicians music music is prominently featured throughout again citing back to the graduate nineteen sixty seventy of Simon and Garfunkel. Similar thing where there were songs that Mike Nichols at the time was using just as place holders in the assembly of the film in the edit room and the idea was that we're gonNA write new material before the movie but then of course you become attached to scarborough fair and nothing they scarborough fair where you're gonNA write some other song that you're going to go. Yeah I like that better than scarborough fair use that instead similarly Cat Stevens when he was finally induced to let his music be used which he was not initially enthusiastic about actually have a clip of him talking about the use of music. I was a little bit cautious. Hang on this is accommodating my music series I take it quite seriously so the juxtaposing of songs in film. It's kind of dangerous business because us as a writer your own vision and along comes a director who kind of sees it and this other way and I wasn't certain if we're going to do this we're going to say yes so he really wanted to convince me how wanted to convince me that this was the right thing. So he invited me to San Francisco whether we're filming and watching Russia's and we were sitting in there and she was puffing on his whatever it was and saying look an miles from nowhere and I you know the median Gray Mon doesn't describe it and it shouldn't in some way but there's a spirit visit meaning. There's something so subtle about the core that song which hits that's drink and that's it tells you everything about that to me. Me Is the greatest summation of why this music works so well in this film. It's not literal like what's going on in. The song's lyrics is not literally what's going onscreen. Yeah the there's a aspect of the spirit of Harold and Maude which is uplifted and contained in this this Cat Stevens thing which is such its own thing at its time and now today right and they inseparable from each other the the film and Cat Stevens Music they they coexist in a way. The I can't think of many other examples Japanese Jas of films where the music I mean. Did he wrote two songs specifically for this. Is that right. Yes and then the rest of them the rest of them were supposed to be place holders right and in a similar similar thing thing that happened with the graduation you know he. I think actually that was supposed to sort of do some score as well. I don't think he got to that and just just ended up using most of those so he wrote. Don't be shy and if you want to sing out sing out pretty amazing. Just just knock that out. You need a new song long. Let me just right if you want to sing out. Sing out. Play a little clip of when that's used here in the movie. So Ruth Gordon starts playing on the piano. There's a little magical realism throughout the film in a few spots. This is one of them. She gets up to do a little dance but the piano keeps playing things to be out there. You know This again whether you want to see now seeing out heavy if you want to be free be free Zaza million things to be you know that there are so one of the things that there's about how I think the movie really comes alive when they do the montages over. The song's because I think as an editor at heart how Ashby is really good at using images in conjunction with the music to tease out. Something really evocative emotional most particularly at the end of the film. It's trouble with trouble in the hospital. Seems one of the one of the great montages and he cries without covering his face. Does he you know what maybe you're right Trouble I have seen your face and is too much too much for me. We don't cry backs. TROUBLE CANTU C Ma Hardaway. There's nothing much you have a Old So won't you. They won't you be. What a masterful? Really int- montage. It's more powerful than if there were words. Spoken not to take away from the music accessible but I would say that John Herron though I think a lot of the emotion motion of the film comes from the song yes not necessarily the action of the film. I agree now. That's different than and perhaps in other movies where we are moved because of two actors having a moment onscreen again. Don't now I say yes I do. Do I know what you're saying. I just don't think that that is necessarily a bad thing negative thing. I think that the you know it's part of this. You know the the Cat Stevens music and the film coexist so beautifully. Together it's impossible to a cynic might say I'm not I'm not the Senate director's there's On commentary tracks in the PODCAST. Say That music is tricky as a director because you can induce an emotional reaction from the audience simply through the use of a song you can make people feel something through playing trouble on the soundtrack regardless of what's going on underneath it all I'm saying is a Lotta the emotion a lot of the moving emotion from Harold and Maude comes from the Cat Stevens songs. Which listened to out of the context of Harold? elden Maude are still as emotional and moving. Es a bit of a cheat although with that montage montage is a really good use of the filmmaker skills right as opposed to the performances. Yes say for example John cusack and say anything just to segue there just a segue. There segue segue neatly there. Yeah Right. That's another amazing use of a pop song. Fantastic use on talking about anything. Yeah Yeah Pizza. Gabriel us us in your is yes except nothing else is happening in that. Very moving holding the boombox holding tried to do that in the eighties. Abby Bax Twenty de the energized twenty juice D. C. D.. Let's give it a little appre- I mean. He is doing his early in the morning. The curtains blowing. Yeah yeah the moment is created through the emotion of the song to the same degree as this. If we'RE GONNA make no not at all be someone's died here right right. So you know Taj. He's driving in the rain. Also things half driving in the rain. Driving driving in the rain might be as much of a cheater. As this playing sad music on the soundtrack. But it's okay but it's different than it works incredibly well but on many levels it's very different than the use of tiny dancer and almost famous. Well that's just kind of thrown women right just to make you feel good and kind of going down on the plane crash when they're on the bus and it's yeah they're all shaking my the band were in the band but you know what you mean so great but gray examples of a pop song in in a film and in in a montage sequence. I can't think of anything really better than this may be Simon and Garfunkel in the graduate. Maybe it's different. Oh seven and Garfunkel always does not have the emotional national content for me. The Cat Stevens does like cat. Stevens is show nakedly emotional and a brilliant and moving way soundgarden will. It's a little cold. Yeah I agree me. Oh I've got a good one. Perfect Day Lou Reed and trainspotting. That's pretty good. That's pretty good right. Yeah we have to play this one because one of the most incredible credible shots in the movie. This is often referred to as the flower seen. Yes I should avoid some some flowers today. Perfect that's okay. Your presence brightness enough backs cloud would you like to be a one of these movie. What do you say that? Because they're all black back then not look see some smaller summer Fateh some grow to the left some the right some even have lost some paddled all kinds of observable differences. You see Harold I feel uh-huh much of the world's sorrow comes from people who this loud themselves to betrayed visit. The I think it's fine. Filled in jumble. Pain show is insane taking a ride on chasm mixed train switch who's an epic soul allowed of them sitting amongst a little pocket of open flowers and then they're in a graveyard as you pull out the graveyard. Just takes on epic proportion in all the gravestones are the same. And then they're all white and the song is. Where do the children play hard not to look at that as a direct commentary commentary on the Vietnam War that was going on at the time? That's such a beautiful beautiful secret. That's great that's great scene between the two of them man. Ruth Gordon is just so funny. I love her skipping out of the cemetery when they see each other at the first funeral and she's got her yellow umbrella just brings joy and I. I don't know what it is. She's such A. There's no one like her and I think that's part of her thing. Is that when you have her. You're getting Ruth Gordon. You sound like record never. Did you know the Society Grand Dam pulled it off. She probably could never really is her film. And it's more it's more. It's more the kind of cat named mood. I Harold World. Did you know that Judd appetite named his daughter result of this. But I named my cat I now. Here's another critical. Take that I would like to get your take on Do you think that in the end. The death of Maud betrays the life-affirming message that the film has was put forth to that point. No no no. I think if Harold spoiler alert for nineteen seventy-one Harold and Maude. If you haven't seen I haven't seen any dies is she doesn't just die. which would be one choice? Right I of suddenness would be one thing but she takes her own life yes she takes. You don't all signed that odds with her message of carpet dean. I WANNA live. You know. She doesn't want to live beyond eighty their eightieth birthday. Wonderful incredible life. And the you know this meaningful life of resistance and experience and she has this beautiful eightieth birthday celebration with Harold and then she destroys his world world by telling him that she has taken. What does she take pills? She sales I took the pills an hour ago. I'm here saying it's a selfish choice. Yes search and this is what makes the ultimate boomer. I haven't heard that assessment of her character even I. She's not but look if he'd driven his car off the cliff. which when I'm sitting in the dock in Leeds one thousand nine hundred five and I you think Oh my God? He's driving off the cliff. If they both died I would have been disallowed exactly and been good right. It wouldn't have been that was actually an ending saying that they contemplated no and I'm so glad that's not the ending and so then when it pulls back to reveal that he's standing on the hillside playing the Banjo yes and skipping off skipping happily or as much skipping can do but yeah. I don't know that that's the life affirming message at the end of it right that it is. Yeah but I just find it. I do find it a little a little jarring I get it like theatrically I get it sort of twists wise. I get that having a twist is a thing to do. But for for a life-affirming movie where these two oddballs have found each other. But it's a film about death film about life. He's I mean ultimately it's both automates a film about life because he remains C.. Reminds she dies. It's any and he and she helps him to get beyond his fascination his death by dying dying by dying we showing him perhaps that she cashed of death the reality of death in a manner. That's yeah but also that you can have lived this remarkably rich life and death doesn't have to be. It's not the end of her not the end of mode. I mean it is the end from what she's dying stat for Poor Heraldo here he is. He's had a closed heart a closed mine. He's finally open. He finally trusts and give gives himself over to love. And guess what you know what. I'm never fucking doing that again. Because the last time I made myself vulnerable. Look what the hell happened. She went in the fucking killed herself but we can imagine what would happen in heralded motoo. Maybe he would go home and be nice to his mom. This is why I think if you if you look at his performance in heat as the cameo he's this embittered uh-huh asshole. I've always thought that that is Michael. Man's version of Harold. Since he was destroyed by the death of Maude he sort of went onto become this embittered old man. I like that idea. That's yeah that's the sequel. To Make Colin Higgins do two sequels to herald worldview. Yes wasn't enough calling was a really fascinating in wildly talented guy who died much much too young of AIDS at the age of forty seven and nineteen eighty eighty eight. He expressed interest in one thousand nine hundred about a sequel and a prequel. The Sequel Herald story would have court portray heralds life after Maude Higgins. Imagine a prequel equal showing Maude before Harold Grover and Maud it had maude. Learning how to steal cars from Grover Muldoon. The character portrayed. By Richard Pryor Higgins nineteen seventy six film on silver streak as as bad. There's a good radio when you step out of you. You got to step out of the Canes Shit Right You bay put the radio to year. That's going to help you face right. We about it with the rhythm stop. Stop Asthma Richard. Pryor and Ruth Gordon Together onscreen would have been the ship. It would've but again that's such a strange choice of all the things that we wanna know more about modes life. You don't know about how she know all her all her resistance and all right you know battling the man and all that what. What is it what does that I write it down somewhere? Fighting for Liberty Rights and justice. I WanNa know what about that. You know what's one of the most heartbreakingly beautiful lines in the movie. There's a line. She says how the world still dearly loves a cage. God that's a fucking amazing easing line. That's Colin Higgins. I mean he was so so fascinating and would have had an incredible career as a writer and probably as director because of his versatility. Silver streak nine to five Harold and Maude Assamese written by the same person. That's really bizarre and amazing. So all of these components how Ashby and you know the two performers performers and they amazing script. This all makes you feel like it doesn't have to necessarily hold together as this pefect film. Yeah but in a way it's like of course not but it's more of a you can love to think it's a it's a thing it's a thing a philosophical statement is but it's like grease. It's like it doesn't matter I mean I. It doesn't matter whether Greece is good or bad. It's the way or well acted or well considered it doesn't even matter. It's a iconic four hundred hundred two hundred years from now. People will still be watching Greece and seeing those songs right. One hundred. Two Hundred Years From now herald is still going to have a cultural cachet. It's still gonNA means something say original statement that stands the test of time but that doesn't mean we can't Hobo. You slow drawing holes in the balloon just essay places where it might have been better. I'm in agreement. Centrally about five The Publicity Department had some interesting promotional ideas for the release. They considered sending motorcycles with sidecars with an old lady in the sidecar driven by a young man to to create publicity and the motorcycles would carry a just married sign and play information about the the the show the idea was dropped. Additionally it was contemplated avoided that we could have Ruth Gordon plant a tree in a central location for an ecology tire. That's the kind of idea you would come up with marketing. Except no she wouldn't. She would be liberated. Yeah well maybe planting the trees she liberty. I love that Sony Scenes Sammy for great scene with scare it. Licensed lady when I don't believe even driving maybe forty five minutes. Wouldn't you say how we were hoping to stop. But you see it's rather hard had to find a truck truck only took yes. Well it's not really but we would like to get it into so as soon as possible. Get Straight eight ladies. Nice chatting very hang. But let's move on quickly to the Colombo. Cinematic universe moves in. Matic Universe blyden morten. Oh Yeah because she was which episode machine she is in what I consider to be. Perhaps the greatest of all columbo episodes try and catch me in which she plays a mystery author how he won about four or five columbo episodes that always featured mystery author who in real life was committing murders. Right of course is Ruth Gordon. So she delivers this incredible performance. Peer Faulk as Colombo can't help throughout the episode to kind of Fall in love with her and hope dearly that she didn't do it even though he knows that she did. Do you have take time to clip. Have a brief clip. Excuse me Your Abigail Mitchell. The best and murder. I just WANNA say I'm there it's a very great honor. The Mita famous author I just wish meeting under happier circumstances. Thank thank you young man. They're kind of my. Name's Lieutenant Columbo Ma'am homicide to Galvin. The deceased I understand. He was your nephew. No blood relation. He was married to my niece. Yes your secretary told us how your news died in a boating accident. Four months ago they loved each other so it's inconceivable that another accident could take it. Excuse me what accident was I say his death. I doubt that that was an accident. Ma'am I doubt that very much. What year was that? It's nineteen seventy eight. So that's her presence in the Colombo cinematic universe now quickly. We're we have a segment called latchkey. TV which you. I provided some clips. I'm Amatorio this is our first. You're our first ever Brit on the pod so it's fascinating to me to watch these clips that you sent. Because is I don't know what the Hell is going on in England man but you guys watch weird shit. This is Grange Hill and this is so important for all. The Brits out there is it. Oh Yes yes when I hear this this music. Yeah okay. Five o'clock every day after school. Music comicstrip yeah with sausage sausage. This there it was all the different parts of school right for the sausage comes in. Of course we bangers out. Some racial diversity was the first time yea amazing so this is a live action a middle school as well as a secondary school. So that's that is we don't have. We don't have middle schools. We can range injury school. We can discuss crime rate. I'm Jay Secondary as middle the Anti Okay so these are the adventures of a group of of Londoners there from just outside London. The you know the late seventy issues going on ooh kinds of class issues. Yeah it's really exciting. They've all got great nicknames. Bonzo beaver and things like that Tucker and everyone generation would know this every single person. I I I bet you you will get common comments. Fee Ruin and send you texts about Grandchil- show this next one was I'd never heard of and was bizarre. Checkers plays pop. Gwyn suicide CHAGAS. Jagai win he was needed the pop show for the kids of this for the kids. Kids kids like American bandstand. Great this is. This could be like a television song. Hailing kind of a free kick ass rip and he had two groups of kids one on each side of the audience swaying swaying and that they would also vote on. What's only like the best in the charts? What's okay and he was very hostile here? He comes saying it's funny dance. Did he always do that again. To place there's no way that guy's still alive he sadly not find how did I know. Badly overdose no. I think he just salons all the eighties. It wasn't very long. He died quite recently. Keith gives us a big deal. was there the Guardian. gave him a full page. Oh bit so. He's a part of your childhood. Oh absolutely looks great. Yeah Hey di twenty seventeen. I know it tells you recently. Circa chatwin should've abatements robed. Check out what would happen when the pop was playing Kinsley. No no wouldn't perform the pop. No it was more like kind of countdown billboard show and vote on the songs that they like the best of kids on the left and the right and they would do various it was fun and off. Now this next one is close to your heart and your family I understand. We'll we'll Brits no this show. Oh absolutely this is bag push. This is the younger listeners. Okay so this is like a the Mr Rogers set yet much more. Surreal and strange very strange. Was it a stop motion. Yes this is my uncle as is your uncle. Sam Did all composed all the songs and music for that purse which has been voted the best British kids TV show all time to watch on drugs uh-huh and he played toad called Gabriel. And that was my. That's my aunt singing. I thought that was you for nine nine three. It was about the life of a very strange cat who had dreams that stigma. Yeah yes he had dreams. Based on the animal friends. Who lived in was the whole show done in this? Stop Motion Animation Style. Yes in your mind corona. It was a folk musician of note in the UK. Yes in Ireland. Ireland is is lived in Ireland from his life. He is John Faulkner yes. He's well known in somebody's. It's certainly well known Theorem toback this. Wow Okay and then just a quick one because I never heard of this and I asked you to cite a few American shows that you reacted to. I had no idea. There was something called the kids from fame. Did I is that rail did I did. I get the title. No that Israel based on the wasn't a show that was was like a touring act. No there was what was the. TV show called fame the movie. Yeah and there was a TV show. I'm sure. Oh that was. That was a touring act. I saw live. I went to the kids. From fame was a touring acton recording. Yes TV show yes ran on NBC from MM Eighty two to eighty seven. That's probably referring to. Yeah so kids from fame was like a thing. It was a thing I went to see them. That's from the movie. Yes so this is the kids to the movie and I went to see them live. I'm I think I'm probably thinking of the TV show as well the TV show started in eighty two. So that was a huge the introduction to American culture fascinating yes so you're three shows that you submitted were kids from Fame Roseanne. Here's covers it. It doesn't it. Yeah that's that's very you. So that's what. I was watching in north London. I just want to end with one one thing you haven't ending because I don't have one well. I have one thing that I'd light to share. which is a there's a There's a blog called Kardashians and CRAVAT. S- this has to be your blog. My blog I've probably are. Are you sure absolutely. You're sure you don't sleep. Walk at night and right that is I can't think of a warm. I have to submit some say. It's a it's a fashion in response to films online. It's amazing this. These are just visual images from classic films. Yes the one I enjoyed in response to how to dress like Herald and one more encouraged us to where and I quote. Floral prints structured corduroy in tweed and POPs of yellow mountains. My favorite the bed POPs of yellow really. Is I really. I'm regretting that. I haven't bought you any talks of yellow details. It makes it. It is below Ranko a yellow umbrella the the yellow fire hydrant. There's lots of POPs of yellow so there right so I think we need to. You know from now on consult Cardigan CRAVAT. I'm definitely going installed it by the way I have a gift for you. For appearing appearing on pod which you probably already have I got you a herald loves Maude Button from Oetzi. Probably have many of those buttons awesome. But I have. This can be added to my amazing collection of Harold and Maude Buttons. Well don't be too excited because I'm hopeful that it's out on the ledge. When we emerged from the room one day I had the extra for the shipping so that it would get here today and I brought you a button but it's not here or did you? Did you realize I really dug it out and it can go autobahn. It would be fitting. If you're putting didn't show up and then I just have to see you again. In order to give it can add it to my to my one of my mentor bags. Keep common vote of home. We didn't even get into to how you're my favorite online social media sparring partner because becks is what the kids call part of the wo- Karate and she has innumerable in numerous amazing dedication to political causes. I don't know how you find the time. I'm very tired but you. You walk like you talk it back. So that's an impressive thing. I'm more of like the cynical curmudgeon type. Who just sort of like chooses to hang back and cynically cast aspersions from lofty tower whereas you're actually out in the street and literally literally out in the streets to you? Thank you and I have a big collection of tote bags to do because as again said you are my favorite champagne socialist a-list so backs thanks for coming onto the pot. I hope you enjoyed it. Help you'll do it again. I've loved it I would love to come back

Harold First Hal Ashby Ruth Gordon Maude Colin Higgins Vivian pickles Bud cort director London Rushmore Elton John Amazon Robert Evans Cat Stevens England Beck US Russia editor
Daniel Hills Quick Tip to Take Advantage of Twitter

Journey to $100 Million

04:09 min | 10 months ago

Daniel Hills Quick Tip to Take Advantage of Twitter

"Hey there I'm Eric Olson. I'm days join us on our journey to building. We are one hundred million dollar company. What to journey to one hundred million dollars? I'm Daniel Hill. Normally I host the INSTAGRAM's stories Flash Ashby briefing but Asked me to guest host. Today's episode of journey to one hundred million. I wanted to talk about something I've been doing for a long time. That's starting to pay off a think. It might be worthwhile for you to learn the process to investigate. I would like to get more speaking opportunities. I've been spending time on twitter looking for speaking opportunities and actually made a search criteria that WANNA walk you through and if you're interested interested in speaking you can copy this exact formula or if you're interested in something else you can adopt the formula for your own business process. Here's what I do. I go on twitter dot com and in the search box I put in quotes call for speakers. I put quotation marks at the beginning uh of call for speakers and at the end then I put space and then I do some boolean logic to eliminate certain words so eliminate the words Pelosi Pelosi and I also do a minus sign and the word trump. Because I don't want any political stuff creeping in calling for the resignation of the speaker of the house or anything like that once you type in that search criteria you can actually save a search on twitter dot com if you click the three dots in the top right corner you conceive conceive that search and then when you go to search things again in the future twitter shows your past search history but if you school right down to the bottom it will show searches that you've made in the past and saved their sort of hidden there buried at the bottom but once you save those searches with the parameters that you you want you can quickly pull them up. So what I do is check in for conferences that are looking for speakers about once every week or two weeks depending on how busy see I am. This is a really good way to kind of keep tabs on things if you want to narrow it down even more you can add more words to the search criteria so if you wanted to do call for speakers only New York City you could just add the words NYC in there or New York city or maybe try some variations there but this helps you to narrow Arrow down exactly what criteria you want to find and you can do that for any other search on twitter and then save it say you're a digital marketing agency and you're looking for people who want digital marketers to help them you could create a search term that says digital marketing help with a question mark and and you can see all the people who are asking for help when it comes to digital marketing. You could adapt it if you were a real estate agent. You could take the words real estate. Then maybe the town that you you service the most or you know the best and save that as a search so then this way people ask questions about real estate in that particular town you will. We'll see it. I also use tweet deck for this which is very similar to twitter. Gives you everything in columns. So you don't have to wait for the webpage to refresh or anything you can see. Do Things Scroll by and you can kind of keep an eye on things that way tweet. Deck is a really good alternative to the twitter dot com website. That's it for today's quick tip hundred eighty to one hundred million. I normally give tips all about instagram. You can find me at Daniel Hill media on instagram twitter or Daniel Annual Hill Media Dot Com. If you'd like to listen to me on a more frequent basis you can subscribe to my show the instagram stories on Amazon Dot Com. Through your spart speaker. Thanks release member. Thank you for listening engaged with your ideal customers online and we can help you with social media find out more at. This is the Ray dot com.

twitter Daniel Hill New York City Eric Olson instagram Pelosi Pelosi Daniel Hill Ashby Daniel Annual Hill Amazon one hundred million dollars one hundred million dollar two weeks
WARNING: JAMES ASPEY WILL MAKE YOU GO VEGAN - IMPAULSIVE EP. 47

Impaulsive with Logan Paul

1:36:42 hr | 1 year ago

WARNING: JAMES ASPEY WILL MAKE YOU GO VEGAN - IMPAULSIVE EP. 47

"You said it twice now. Then humans look as an animals as lesser than. Yup. When I see a squirrel outside. I'm sorry. I am superior to that squirrel in. What way do you believe that or no in what way my life is more valuable than the squirrels life? Do you believe that I believe to you? It is I believe to the squeal screws is mobile true. The squirrel though did not found a civilization. None of that. Is you I'm a human McGinn into that should the I did not do. My my ancestors dead. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What was that? Did you just bark? Now, what was that? We do want it sound like Pearl. The word is this and we don't use as much inside anymore. But it's called a belch. It's up that has very long reach. That's incredible. Welcome back to Boston, by the way, the number one podcast fit. We're doing this z world. Oh, yo I came up with this thing. I think I should say that cooler from now on welcome back to a pulse of the number one podcast in the world. Thank you guys for listening watching subscribing wherever you do. So you to Spotify. I really give a fuck your washing hit that. But that's subscribe leaving feedback. We love hearing it. We do an audio only QNA with the guest after the show is over. I feel like a broken record saying every time. It's the second podcast of the day. We did extreme goat yoga this morning. Anna saddened and oxygen chamber. So I could fix my brain membrane, my free frontal cortex, I could feel empathy. I thought you supposed to sleep in it. You're just like doing sessions in it. Yeah. Eighty hours I go. Go one hour every morning. Also, like, I just addressed this on Twitter you in the video do some people are saying the brain scans fake, and they're like comparing it next to an image. That's like very clearly different. But also, it's a brain scan. So it's like brains, look similar anyways. I just addressed it. I didn't want to address it but doubting the ski Cacak suckers. And I asked him I said, why do you even fucking respond like the thing about me is like you saw these people reach out to me on Twitter sometimes and they say, Mike when are you going to start listening to the feedback from from us on the YouTube videos, and when you do this on the podcast, I say, quite literally don't give a FOX on knocking to ever. Listen just because Br like look how do Twitter headline is though. But I'm kind of over for scandals and controversies I don't wanna do it anymore. So it made it up to a headline. No, it was on the headline. I would fuck in food. Lose my shit fake, a brain scan. Yo the dude who did my brain scan is a legitimate doctor who will lose his job if he fakes a brain scan for some fucking youtuber sucker. Cock any my charger on my phone. That's about the di- fucking morons. Do not listen, listen. It's all fun. It's all it's all good energy. Got it brand. Also, I feel feel bad coming in here. So hot negatively charged because we've got a great Gus today. I'm on I'm on his website right now says be kind whenever possible, and it's always possible. It's a quote from the Dalai Lama, but still, bro. He embodies kindness is the guy Brousseau dog w Super Bowl. I want to Jews from guys he is an animal rights activists. He's a plant based Australian super vegan. Yeah. He took a vow of silence for one year, actually, and then started professionally yodeling after which was an interesting choice. Ladies and gentlemen were. It's James asked me. Roll those sound effects of the audience clapping that would never fucking God. Thanks and the yodeling and that you only. I don't know that. I don't. Can you? Imagine you go from not talking right entire year to yodeling, I suppose, man, let's show to have you ever yodel on have. I think I have a couple. That was pretty good. Next Ramsey doing. Brought here you've got an accent enough around here. Yemen on from Australia and appreciate haven't meal, and thanks for the of course, dude. Of course. Yeah. Thank you for coming. So I do glad your name. What's this? I see about the vegan activist James Ashby running for parliament. Animal rights activists James ethic plans to win Australian election some new shit. What? Oh, you politician guy. I look man, they the animal Justice party in Australia reached out to me. And I said I'm going to be able to help them out. If I be a candidate and get you know, if I get elected in my electorate, and then the people who are really going to get in there and make some changes can do that. So I'm just helping them. How are you doing it? I'm doing that part of your going for do whatever. I can man that's one small thing. I can do. So let's go see you. See you brought up in plant base news. Let's say interesting lambaste news. It's an interesting publication. That's a good one. Man. They do thing ever you begin to be big in two thousand and seventeen old beca- to the what's going on in the plant based vegan rats world. And as always interesting, man, big stuff happens. So yeah, there's a lot of talk to talk about with you a lot you've done a lot of stuff even like on your website here. For example, like I took a three hundred sixty five Dave silence to raise awareness for animals and promote peace over violence. I wanna talk about that. It says here you cycled five thousand kilometers got. Tattooed for twenty five hours. You've given over one hundred fifty species you, do you do a lot of shit. I'm getting busy, man. This silence. How can you make one hundred fifty speeches while you're really good at body language? I bet now you are. Yeah. Go real good, man. I'm the psoriasis expert around to you didn't speak for an entire year of your honest with you. Yes, I did not man. But a few words slipped out about five times just by accident or the words. Shit. That I don't even remember, man. They'll just random words that they just went out before I could catch him. But yeah, man, I did a whole year deliberately not speaking. And nothing to came out. I want I want it to accidents quickly Tessier, your your language say really, go to the body language. Tell me you gonna turn the lights off. That's pretty good. Sounds like. This is a fun game. That's pretty good. How do you ask a girl if she's down to smash? Trying to have sex with a baby to be quite honest with you. It's not a perfect science. No, it's really not a perfect student. He didn't label the two hundred arrests that tipping. Comfortable on the side, man. Whenever my voice whenever I'm sick. And I can't speak, and my voice is not up to par. I I'm not gonna lie, dude. I feel powerless. I feel like. Anything? Well, that was the point man because the animals was doing a valve silence for that basically voiceless as well. A main actually not so much because they have a voice they're speaking in their own languages at pig. For example, as you guys probably know, you hero them grants with their body, language included. And the sounds I make they sang eighty different things that we're aware of. So there's speaking, but the problem is as falling on deaf ears their screams cries, we don't actually hear it. We don't pay attention to it because we view them as so much less than us that it just doesn't really register. That's something we should actually care about. And that's judo a load of conditioning of brainwashing. For us to believe in this in this form of discrimination that some lives matter more than others. So not not the not to disagree with you. And I don't want this to be taken out of context of the wrong way. But there's a lot of people, especially I know where I came from the fly over states middle America who would argue that pigs are indeed less than us. You would. Testify, otherwise. Well, I mean in many ways, you know, look at what we've done man, we're very sophisticated and were wearing credible. An incredible species one of millions though, and what we have in common is what I'm talking about. We all have a hot. We all have a Brian. We all feel pain suffo- want to live done wants a die. If I stab you in the throat, it feels the same as if I stab a dog or a dolphin or a while or a pig in the start so. Yeah. In some ways, of course, west of perio-, and in some ways different animals will superior when it comes to, you know, different things in the in the way, how they can communicate over miles or they. You know, the way that they can find a position in the wealth that they return to after years of not being there and just different ways. So, but obviously. Yeah. Well, we do is incredible. But it doesn't justify us and slaving them rating them into existence for the sole purpose of killing them. So we can harvest the mate from their bodies all the eggs or their for the milk. Is there any is there any world that you see that as being an okay thing to do? In a world where it's necessary, and I wouldn't say that it's okay. Oh, say a necessary evil. You know, it ain't good. But it's necessary by winnowed caveman anymore. We've evolved to a point where we no longer need to kill an eight other beings to survive and thrive. We were the science behind us. We go the technology behind us. We've got the access to these delicious plant based foods right here. So and it goes further than that. Now, we can get meat that is made from plants at tastes the same. That's healthier better for the planet. Noah needed to get the throats live for that. We have the those impossible burgers. I love burgers, man. And I got impossible to point earn now which is supposed to even better. Fuck we actually update and her we all had them here that you think of that. They're great. Avin here who hates alternative, burgers when he bid it. He he had no idea. I was house eating them left. And right that good. My I have a question for you. So I think a lot of times we bring guests on the show that are radically right or left or radically vegan or not vegan. And I try to remain somewhat in the middle. And so my question, I guess one of my questions you is. Is there a step? We can take as a society before we try to take this large leap of turning people Viga or getting people to live this plant based diet. I for one believe there's large steps we can take in the humane slaughter practice. Okay. And I think we're we're not doing enough. And and I hope it gets better. But I've seen some horror stories coming out of slaughter houses. Absolutely terrible. And do you think that? There's more like there's more credibility or warrant in a movement to kind of change that than they get people to start eating plants only because it's such a leap, it seems like such a leap, and I totally understand that goes for twenty six years and my life. I was eight and just as much meat as anybody sick fucking months on. But I think that what you're asking. For is something that con exists. A humane way to enslave, a humane, holocaust humane murder on I think those things exist. So I think you can use the word humane, which means to show compassion when we're talking about taking the lives of sentient beings who do not want to die. So I don't think that's a good way to do it in that is that an approach is that a step we can take to reduce that suffering on the way to abolishing animal slavery, potentially. Yes. Just in purely in terms of strategy that could be one route to take it seems like a very big deal for people to go vegan overnight. Okay. So why don't you try taking this step and going vegetarian? I or maybe. In the meantime, weekend make big cages or kill them in a way that they don't feel it as much, but a lesser of two Abel's to still able man, and we shouldn't be looking for the right way to do the wrong thing. So I think that although. Possibility something we could work towards ultimately the goal should be. Let's end the holocaust. What's an animal holocaust? Let's end all animals slavery on I think we should be doing this thing. Like, I said it comes back to necessity when we know that we can get every single essential nutrient. We need from a plant based diet and to be twelve supplement. And that's all we need to get it. All you think that's realistic. I do math think it's actually the only realistic way to go. Because currently where wasting sixteen times more. Moorland third ain't times more water eleven times. More oil producing fifty times. More gas emiss- greenhouse gas emissions. We kill an SLD's, you know, one in four people in a heart disease. The number one killer, the only proven to reverse hot as as the majority of patients is a plant based diet people getting diabetes that get in different cancers. All these things would way it's the only way forward. I believe in. You know, I'm not just not just may saying that that's United Nations that some of the largest environmental protection organizations on the planet. So I think that if we want to move forward. This is going to be the way to do it. Do I think everybody's gonna go vegan over not? Nah, I didn't even do that. Most begins went vegetarian. I did something or took some steps, but we can take some steps, and we have an obligation immoral, but Gatien to do better once we know better. Most people don't know better. They think they need to eat animals this live. They think that going to be able to enjoy vegan food. I have no idea what to cook. I think they can't afford it. But all of those things, you know, there's this away, and it's cheaper and healthier and easy and the millions of recipes at our fingertips. Cheaper and easier or to that stuck out to me that could not be more full full to talk to us. Can you could lead this on? I'm sure I'm just saying like, it's not cheaper. Let me okay. So aside from the fact that you're probably going to be able to do more days at work and have less sick days. You probably gonna have to be on the table getting your chest. Cut open and have surgeries and pay for all these medical bills because you over juicing chances of getting many. But aside, but aside from us. Yeah. That's that's just an added point. I also think too from from a like a cost perspective that like we do we live with the chef. She's cooking high end vegan meals like on a baseline beans and rice around rice, keen wa like the things that give you all your essential amino 's and nutrients, extremely cheap. I I could be lost to give you cheaper never admit easier. Ever minds, you Spencer's vegan. So it's like the non vegans versa vegans, right? By the way, I used to be vegan. I used to be. I used to be vegan. I did four months last year in the first month of this year twenty six days stuff. Yeah. We with the house when vegan who for the moment of some stats on that just real quick for four months of you being vegan. You saved one hundred and thirty two thousand gallons of water thirty six hundred square feet of forest one hundred twenty animal lives in twenty four hundred pounds of CO two for how long was it for four months for four months. I so I have so many questions I'm gonna I'm gonna try to keep them in line with the conversation. I guess I guess one of them. I I've talked to Spencer lot amount is. I think there are a lot of people out there who automatically see vegan research, and they say, no, that's not true. No. That's not true. I have a very different approach. My my response is I don't know if I believe that. I know if I believe that yet that's because the thing about veganism, and it is even if it's been around for thirty years is a forty fifty one hundred as far as I'm concerned the research on it and the true wave that we're on right now has been around for ten years. You know what I'm saying? It's a new it's a new thing. People just started talking about it just started really really digging into it. So. I don't know what the heart disease of a bean eater is going to look like in forty years. I don't know what the what the what the heart disease of of of us, just a rice and starch and being in potato eaters. Gonna look like, you know. And so I am wide open to listening to the argument. But I'm also very reluctant to just trade over on it. I instead want to rely on just what I've found which is an incredibly inconvenient diet that I can never find a place to eat. If I'm at an airport, and I'm eating vegan. I'm just gonna eat a granola bar because that's all I got puts challenged challenging. That could be pretty expensive unless you want to just eat, you know, Bodega beans and rice, and and also unless you're really willing to put in the work to eat a lot of fucking food. You're going to lose mass muscle and a lot of other bodily functions you've become used to write. I shit fifteen times a day while literally fifteen times a day. And so, and so basically, and so it's so basing it strictly on what I've seen and dealt with myself. I'm still reluctant who man. I'm, you know, that's the smartest place to be. I didn't learn all this shit and go, okay. That must be solar two different arguments. What I've heard before. So of course, I'm going to try to listen to it. No. I didn't I didn't pay attention to what I'd heard. I watched documentaries. And that as well is it something you just take for face value? But you don't need to be, you know, need a lot of papers and studies to look around and see what's going on and ask society. Society of meat dairy, and is people who all over the place man and it's an epidemic. What's happening and things to get worse. What we have in terms of Saudis is the blues on studies which have been going for very long time the largest study ever conducted on the relationship between nutrition and disease, which is China Saudi which spanned for decades, which included thousands and thousands of participants. The bottom line of that study was at the mall amount of animal products in the human diet is zero and often for human health is whole foods plant based dot vegan diet in terms of inconvenience at times it can be inconvenient. There's no doubt about it. We're trying to eat a plant based diet in a world where every single country is, you know, making food off the backs of animals, but it can definitely be done. I travel all over the world doughnut. You know yesterday. I scored a really good meal. It was big basic kin wa veggies and some rocket lettuce. It wasn't the perfect meal in terms of you know, what I would have enjoyed to cook for an airport. It was good. When you go to. Mexican places any Mexican place instead of getting mate, you get Baynes instead of getting south quaint, south cream and cheese. Get guacamole contains there's all that all that any any type place just which the mate for tofu. Switch the co the dairy full coconut milk. And you still haven't stuff I still haven't cars Indian is super easy because most of them have vegetarians anyway. And in terms of aiding a whole lot of food. You definitely want to make sure eating a lot of food. But you know, it doesn't have to be crazy amount. If you're trying to put on size. We still got p protein we've got Ross protein we've got different protein powders that have just as much protein as you used to accept. We don't have the the way we don't have the way in that. Which you know, is it comes with the case funds. It comes with the animal protein, and the, you know, the things basically that we're trying to avoid in for 'cause we have cholesterol we have much higher rates of saturated fat about ninety five percent more saturated fat. We have both of these things that lead to some of the biggest diseases. Face with. We can avoid all that by eating the plant by star. And you know at times. Yeah. When it is convenient when it's inconvenient, it sucks. But I guess for Maine. I just go to a point where there was times while I was still waiting animal. Proxima other it's going to get thrown away. Anyway, fuck fucking. I'm just going to have it. But then I'll go to point where I was like, you know, I don't want to condone this in any way, this is so far out of a woman with who. I am as old never go round stubborn animals mantle anybody. And when I started seeing animals as somebody's as individuals, we've earned experienced very very similar to as it just became an Brian. So even if the food was going to get thrown out thought good is should be thrown out. This is trash doesn't belong at bodies minutes doesn't belong in temples. This is products of violence perks of suffering the stresses in that all that should is in that on top of that it's killing us. So you know, I just found ways around it. And there's a lot of act like the happy cow apoptosis all the vacant restaurants in your area wherever you're at. There's ways adult man. So I guess, you know. You just started out, and you don't figure that shit out straight away. But over time you want to go to Mexican can have this when I'm in an area can check this app, and you just figure it out. Yeah. You no one's perfect normal perfect overnight. And I'm still figuring shit out almost six years on. But it's a journey. That's worth walking men, and every step, you know, of you being a little better adds more. Lots of the world reduces suffering in this world spends. It just said that you inform months was at one hundred thirty less animals or something like that hundred twenty let's animals, man. You know, people eight thousands of being thousands of papal non-human people in that life. That is a big deal minutes. Huge stain on our other Wests civilized society and something that most people don't even see we don't see that. This is actually from a victim of the longest standing holocaust that has ever happened. And they say that they're checking into the body parts of a murder victim. How sit now. That's that's terrifying. Did you make them feel like asshole? I don't mean to automate certain man. I didn't think you are. And also, I don't think he made it are you using scared. I'm using every time to go. Go brother. Also mind you bro, you talking to like an ex vegan like four months is a long time to be vegan grad. So it was the study you you referenced that they said the healthiest diet is a plant based diet. One of them is the China study, the other is the balloon studies. And that just checking out the puck the blues on inside studies. He's checking out the populations of the world that have the longest life Okinawa. Right. They were one of the longest living. Yeah. And some of it's. It's at least mostly plant-based. I mean, I I just I I must say something I'm gonna get I'm gonna get shit on by the vegan community. We're gonna fuck you up, man. I know y'all ruthless, bro. I've been shit on before. And was go get she don't get. No, they know they know the the reason I stopped being vegan was because I was unhealthy. Tell me. I was unhealthy. I was the lightest. I had been since I intentionally cut wait for this movie. I did call the thinning where I was yoked out of my fucking mind and did like a week juice cleanse, and I was one eighty to one hundred eighty two pounds when I shot this movie had two litters pick up pick my legs up out of bed to to just to move. I had I had no strength. And when I was vegan working out, you know, four hours a day on your eight to ten thousand calorie diet had nutritionists had all the supplements. I needed like was private shaft. I was doing everything right? I got down to one eighty four. I could not I could not maintain weight. I was losing way. Was that log picture when you were vegan still? Yeah. Know pull that up. Yeah. Let's let's give ganders. I just I just wanna mistake looking good with feeling. I want to do did you feel Saad from life? My tell me what do you mean, my friend, George sat me down. And he goes, you know, I need to ask you something. And like this kind of sensitive, are, you depressed, and no one has ever asked me that. Wow. Nobody's ever asked me that in my life, and I go no not the like, what do you mean? This is the picture Spencer was referencing. This is when I was vegan. So. Yeah. Like, okay. Look shit for sure look looked up. You're looking Goodman expo, but he sent me not asking Avs literally have apps. That's when you pull all the all the fat and everything off your body. That's what's left right before the skeleton, your stems just let me be being done just do carrying trees vote. Let me. Finish. So. Yeah. And I'm like, no, you're not depressed. He goes. Well, I've never seen this version of Logan ball. I don't know who I'm talking to you right now. And I don't know if it's because you're vegan, I'm like courses. Not because I'm being and whatever. So I had to stop being vegan about a month before the fight. I just was not in a good place. Mentally, physically what I'm saying? So that that was the first time I was like, okay, I tried it. Maybe not for me. Nobody deal. January comes around here. We are in the, oh, let's go for a month coup twenty five days in fucking depressed. I'm seeing I'm losing waiting in the deathly dollars. See him like imbed during the day. And I'm like, hey, man. Like, what's what's going on you want to like get up go outside and shift a little bit? And he's like doing much, man. Like, I'm like, and so the same thing that George said about him like I noticed as well. Like, he just he wasn't getting out of bed. He was just an all he would ever say to me was I just want something that makes me feel whole like a missing something. I know it's because I'm a who can respond. Yes, please. All right. That's interesting, man. So just stop us saying that I've spoke to whichli thousands and thousands of begins now over the years and a common theme with non nine point nine percent of them is going figuring is one of the best things I've ever done in terms of how they feel ethically about also in their body, man. So they all always going to be sudden people for whatever reason that it want to work for them. But that isn't necessarily because they started eating plant based start. You mentioned you were training four hours a day. You do this big dollars which? You know, I've spoke to a doctor about this that about people who've gone feel good initially. And he said fell great initially. Okay. Okay. Corresponds was. I'd say, yeah. That's cool. Let's say full monsters do pretty initial and that it can take time for your body to learn how to assimilate the nutrients and vitamins from plant foods that you will once getting from the mate things like that. When in that in that month of January auto norm, outta know what you're doing. I don't know why he felt that way. I wish I could give you better answer. All that. I can say though, is that meat is locking addiction. And you know, when you come off drugs or any addiction that can be feelings of not feeling whole or not feeling what about what have been eight in this way, your entire life. And you start trying to eat a different way. It can be craving. It can be the literal chemicals and hormones, and she elected that is in the food today. No doubt about it. So I don't know if it was maybe something a little more like that. But all I know is this that there are millions and millions of vegans including higher. Level athletes world record holding strong, man, Mr. universe of a few years ago. You safe Fatah's NFL play not many, not many UFC fighters, not many still some though there's one or two not well, whatever it is. There's not that many vegans outlets are comparatively to have a small amount of the population that a vegan who also some of them becoming world record holding strongman or elite athletes in some of the most physically demanding sports. I think that science something ought to know if you were doing it, right? I don't know if you'll get an everything, I don't know. If you nutritionist knew this shit auto Noman, maybe it was like totally unrelated during the you you live with me with they're all. Well. Without getting too deep. Like that was a time of the year where there was way more emotional different an emotionally different stage. You know, so that could have something to do with it. But the thing I always revert back to is like when we went into the nutritionist they never said any of your levels where like yo you're unhealthy. Like, they you jacked as perfectly healthy Hyun checked me out. He said I had ever was correct. But also this something like it could be that switch like what I what what you were saying because it is very well known that in order to process meats, like we need certain parasites in our body and different things to break them down. So when you go vegan those things have to flush out, and those things aren't they're not getting the same nutrients like you were talking about so many different things. I guess I'll say this is well, you know, people don't always quit cigarettes, I go, and they don't always feel good donor. You know, sometimes like fuck ya quiz Menem feeling good other times, it's hell and automatic don't mind you. Going back. I'm going to be. I don't know. I don't know why I give it a third chance. I'm going to I'm going to try to do in somethings. I mean from what you hated it. I hated it. I. Because you just said to me that you apart from when you started feeling bad initially. You'll feeling good. You're enjoying the impulsivity buggers you'll still trying to four today. So no, no, not not jerick. Okay. Here's why here's why. I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like being depressing. Slaving twelve hours a day. One doubt. Nobody does number two. We were trying on a common side effect go when we were traveling or going anywhere. The inconvenience that I was for people with simply too much for me to handle. Happy and fucking ROY. I think that there's a way to do it that you're not inconveniencing PayPal so much like I understand that, you know, it's it's can be socially awkward at Thomas to be like, oh that looks good. But well, actually. Yeah. This ethical reason. I think you're a piece of shit. But that's not you actually. But that's what they hear. You know what I'm saying? I don't eat that food because ethical Regan reasons. Oh, you think you'd better than me? What do you think this is sort of thing? I think that you find ways to just be people know you, and or you bring your own shit or they just accommodate because they know that you're serious about this thing. And man, like just I don't know a lot about you from onus brother. But from what I do not, you know, your his trying to do good shit. And and you're you're good hearted person. And ultimately, you know, there's a way to find out how you can find a way to do it. But I think when you've got the motivation because you really are aware that you will be living in a woman more with who you really are men like what you're contributing to when you. Pay from meat, dairy or eggs so fucking far from an act of love or connoisseur or respect. It is literally the opposite direction. We trailers animals, you know, worse than the worst nightmare doesn't even come host. And so when you really understand that this is such a such a such a bad acts such a while act something that you would never actually contribute to yourself will pay for it to happen. If you really understood the whole picture when you really get it and you've seen this footage and you've heard their screams, and you've looked he's innocent banks in that is just like just like poem. And when you look her in the is, and you realize being my pig. Yeah. It's Pearl bits. Not just it's not just you know about loving dogs and loving dolphins and loving other humans. It's about extending compassion to embrace all bangs. See I didn't. I didn't have that. What you just described energy fuelling me? I was being fuelled by like, oh, I'll try because I'd like to try things because. I want to experience everything, you know. Maybe one day. I will like I will I will shift. I yeah. I wanted to dive in. No, no, no, no, no, you you will I I just have a quick question around kind of like the newness of things too. And I I want to go back to the past couple thousand years or thousand years of time and how and I'm sure you've got combat for this as well. But you know, we as a as a human species have eaten meat, we're in my eyes were given large chomping teeth and canines tear through flash right for protein and another even on another note when I look at the people who probably wanna live the longest in this. We're all the billionaires with the with the beautiful boats, and models and everything they're all still eating meat. Right. And so and they're not and maybe they're not living the longest boat. What is it that this small swell of people know? Knows that. No one else knows that the thousands of years worth of civilizations. Before us didn't know. And like, what is it that gives you guys this status assurance that? You guys know something that no one else does or no one else did. Yeah. Yeah. I hear what you come from. I mean, it isn't as new as you might think a lot of old was people were talking this way about extending our circle of compassion to all beings. That's actually an onstar Leonardo Davinci spoke about it Gandhi. Many other people spoke about animal Raj just being logical progression from human rights. There's actually no fun. There's no characteristic that separates us from them that justifies enslaving them, but not each other. So if we're not going to if we're all going to agree that enslaving each other is wrong, we should extend that to other sentient beings. Who would also have a problem with that? If you if you look at the situation from the victim's point of view, it becomes very easy to to say the things like she made slow and all that kind of thing doesn't make any sense now. Yes, we. I have been eating made for thousands thousands of years. We've been going to war for thousands of years. People have been getting right children are being getting abused. We've been murdering each other the length of Thomas something's been happening. Does not does not make it ethical on or something we should continue. And when it comes to when it comes to what we know. That's different what we know now. And what I learned when I was twenty six is that we can live and thrive without animal products. That's all we didn't know for sure before we had ideas, there were certain examples. But now we have sponsors caught up. It's really solidified this as fact and proven to us that yes, we don't we can get everything we need from a I start. So I think that's one of the biggest things man because before I did not give a shit. When also footage animals got slaughtered coup. What are you going to feel guilty about that? I'm human nature eight animals to survive after understanding that actually we don't watching that footage again and saying these animals. Get stabbed and pushing the gas chambers an electric to death. I was like, okay. If we don't need to do this to be healthy. What are we doing this because they taste? Yeah. What about people that just want to eat meat, and they just literally just don't fly overstay one the middle America. Sure. Sure. I also don't think that I don't think it's absent from the coastlines either NFL everywhere on you've got bankers on Wall Street. Best thing, I want to go get their eight ten wag you fish or Kobe, and they want to sit down and they wanna chop into an eight hundred dollar steak, and they don't give a fuck if you give them two extra years on the end of their life because they're going to be ninety two years old anyway, so they'll give you so what do you say to those people? I mean is it is it too far gone at that? Fuck on you never know who's going to change off Saint slaughterhouse workers, go vegan, hunters, go vegan. Anybody can just make that connection. It's a it's reconnecting. We have that connection with children. We love animals. We don't wanna hold on their best friends are the main characters of all favorite stories. It's taken from us. We're taught no no these animals these animals kill, and it's a it's a selective compassion. And I really do believe it's a form of brainwashing. That is inside our culture. I knocked trinations honor percent. We're taught we need mate for protein, which basically means if you don't eat meat, you're gonna die. That's kind of how people interpret it and people like that it's hard because you know, you try to get them to connect to an animal. They might even not connect to empathy for all the other stuff. Exactly like, you know, what it is does racism still around this sexism still around. This is called Spacey's ISM, you know. This is a very similar thing. Why people thought though superior to black people? They enslave them. They made them do what they wanted men did the same with women and humans do the same with me. Many other species. What do you do about it? I just hope that, you know, where we're going environmentally from what I've heard if you believe the United Nations, and these big environmental organizations that's saying that we have to do this. We have to go plant base. And luckily, don't why you can still have made. We just go vegan may Thais assignment even going to notice a difference. We'll put it in the meat section four. And I guess that's what they're going to end up just aiding actually convince this person. No you are vegan hot ethically. This is what you should do to live in alignment with who you are. And you're gonna feel so much better. It's the right thing for you to do I going to convince them that way, maybe not the health by the so I hope that just the food, you know, just overtakes, and it just doesn't make sense for people. You've got mate is a corpse from animal who suffered and screamed destroys the planet that kills health. And then you've got this plant basement that taste the same. Looks the same smells the same is at least comparably prosper, potentially even cheaper better for the environment. Why would people still choose this other one if it's right there, and that's what we're south? Going to say now, this this big influx of plant based products that are just just would make more sense to choose and for everybody. Even those people who assaults szeswith may also weapon on plant based sorry sell grown, I growing. Now. I I was going to go there eventually, but you just hit it. And I think that is the solution. So I spent over two summers ago with one of the leading cell growth experts on creating meet in laboratories, and so so I have this conversation with you openly and for almost for fun because I think that within the next ten to twenty years we're going to have this solved through sell through laboratory grown meat. And look, I think that that's good and bad. I'm so happy about that fill. The like we kill eight billion animals every day. Yeah. You know, it's seventy four billion land animals and year and two point seven trillion say animals, they feel pain tool. Those animals they just say two point seven trillion. Yeah. That's an s know somebody, you know, how many sharks it is a year. This is the fun fact on a specific animal scary hundred million which is crazy for a lot of. It's for shark fin. Yes. That's the sad part about cuts. Koch Koch from salmon and shooter and things like that. I am. I'm sore stocked on lab-grown mate man that is going to change the game. And I couldn't be more happy about I couldn't support more. If we can get made the is exactly steak, but no-one had to die and suffer from fuck. Yalies high brew. Hi, he bought, but what I really want also is people to connect man to reconnect to that compassion for other banks, even if they look different because I think that's a really big missing pace of our cultural. Now, where we look at them as less than us, even though that not necessarily in the ways that matter, and I think that this can be also the start of discrimination and other areas like imagine if you'll born into a family that teaches you that we don't even take Honey from bays because that's their food. And we don't take the milk from the cows. Because that's for the carves. That's for the baby cows, and we respect all animals and you born into this. How much hotter is it gonna be for you to grow up and be racist? When you already see bangs it looks so different from you as your equal on many levels. It's going to be a little hotter. Big studies coming out right now that are showing that the first disconnected true disconnect is knowing that the dog you pet and the pig you eat because if you go to the other side. Of the earth. That's the opposite. You can eat the dog can't eat the pig. And so it's like that's two different viewpoints. And you're growing up you're gonna meet somewhere in realized that you're fighting there's two fighting ideals. They're and that's very interesting that does very interesting, and I wonder how that affects we see social media influencers all the time posting videos of dogs being killed yet. But then you go over there, and dogs are infesting the streets and the only way they can do that is to kill them. And they I mean, they're throwing them in like boiling pots like it's disgusting. But they don't they don't think anything of it. I have to I have to raise a red flag for for one believe, maybe it's a a little cynical or maybe I'm a little too like realism here. But you you said it twice now. Humans look as animals as lesser. Yup. When I see a squirrel outside. I'm sorry. I am superior to that squirrel in. What way do you believe that or no in what way my life is more valuable than the squirrels life? Do you believe that I believe to you? It is I believe to the squeal screws left is more valuable true. The squirrel though did not found a civilization. None of that. Is you I'm a human human into that should the I did not do my my ancestors dead. Okay. And later crucial to but so you definitely superior in many ways, the reason why humans have got to this point in civilization isn't because we have a super special Brian or something like that. It's because we have a sophisticated voice books. That's given us the ability to create a complicated language, which we've used to share information and build and build them build on that over many, many many. But don't you think it has to do with having a super special brain? No, actually, I think it's just go to do mostly with our ability to share information and growing that like if I put if I put some humans out in the wilderness, somewhere, they're not going to be popping out oftens, men and. They're going to be just like every other. You gave them two thousand years. Yes. They would. What about most of thought with that? But without the voice books, potentially not men, and regardless regardless so let's just say that let's say that you awesome, peer to the squeal. Do I believe you'll superior school? I'll say again in many ways. Yes, I'll tell you what I say when I say screw out there. I'm like, whoa. Look at that little person, I say person, that's basically how say it. But I'll be more specific because I know people will maybe find that strange a non human person, but a little person with a family, we've probably with friends with a community with ways of communicating with a harm. They eat. They breathe a sleep. They feel. That's ri- trying to get on that we share something comedy on at home. On FM Toubro their extended family cousins in feather Scouse wings, and for I see them as part of the fam-. And I didn't see that before. I just was like I didn't give a shit about him. I didn't think twice about them out having fun. They all dressed mad fucking noble, but I hope in there was ever scenario where someone held me in a squirrel hostage. And he said I'm going to kill one of these people. You say please kill the squirrel instead of Logan. Logan. I would do that few Mandingue because tell you what let me tell you why. Because you had him on your podcast and number one podcast in the world. Let me tell you about this because I understand your experience more. And so human man human is experiencing. Well, you know, we're all animals, we all out your human animal. That's a screw animal wheel animal. So let let's say from a bigger picture here. If if we had a screw and Hitler. I'm saving the squirrel. I'm not always gonna save the human. Yeah. Squirrels lit. Yeah. That's killing about. What about what that's I think? That's a good point. It's all it's all perspective. You know, if we're in ocean. And there's a great white swimming around. I'm throwing that spirit. I'm saving my boy. But you know to kill seven hundred million a year for soup, and I'm not all of that's for soup, obviously. But a lot of it is it's like damn bro as a civilization. There is a disconnect there there's no denying let us have other super mushrooms. And so the shot what about what about people that say that there's a certain amount of killing of animals that needs to take place to raise soy or to raise other vegetables that are needed to sustain a plant base. Where basically where do you where do you draw the line? Like, what if you don't Joe Rogan said that I don't even say. Say about it. But like what if what if a small group of really cute non-person? Squirrels non-person humid are trying to eat your corn. And if they eat your corn, you die. Plus, then we self defense is a perfectly reasonable response. Obviously, do whatever you can do by closing the lease amount of HAMAs. Practically possible. That's all veganism is. It's not perfection. There's no way to be perfect. We're going to close them home. I'm killing animals to probably stepped on ants on my way. Here the food that I get the food production the way it is right now animals killing crops as a very small amount comparatively and also like you mentioned, Soifer example. I'm I think it's about eighty percent of the world's soya's fed to fat enough animals. So what we're doing is we're grown all this food. We're giving it to animals we give them up to fifteen times more food than what we can take from them. So we feed them feed them feed them feed them, then we get back this tiny little bit of food. So that means where wasting a shitload of food and resource. And land and everything else we having all these accidents will crop deaths times fifteen plus with slaughtering the animals, so we can we copy perfect. And I think what will happen is. You know as plant-based as a vegan ethics starts to take. Hold more and more month. What we'll say is trying to figure that shit out to I don't want crop deaths. Man. Let's figure out some better machines. So in killing these little Mawson, whatever. But until we have a better option, we do a veganism is because the lease amount of HAMAs practically possible now. No one's perfect man. I've got on a plane to bay here. I note that that causes some environmental shit. I get in a car of got an iphone. I do. I do my best though. But by five such a long way easily the worst thing that any of us a contributing to in terms of suffering in terms of environmental is considering Dariel eggs by. So I think the smartest thing to do is to look. What's the biggest thing contributing to and can we eliminate that? And that one hundred percent, yes, we can. And then we go to the next thing kite. Let's use less plastic. Let's do this and that but that even plastic that's a big fucking do. But comparatively to meet their in as consuming that shit supporting that should creating a demand for that doesn't even come close by five the worst thing in regards to violence suffering environmental destruction and also iron health shit. What what about really quick quickly where what about the cheese and eggs? So the meat is just and I think I know what your answers, but I want to hear it like if you allowed us when we were in January when we were gone through that month, if you would allow us to still have a nice omelet with some cheese in it, man. I probably would have been like this pretty good. Like, I could do. Let's fucking. Forever. Things like that. And so now, it's almost like you move into this like even greyer area. We don't want to eat me because you're killing animals. Okay. So we stopped that. But now we also don't want you to e- stuff the by product -duced with them. And so then it's like art. So not only do we not wanna kill the animals, but we also don't really wanna bother them. Because like, you know, there should be just moving around the grass, and like, you know, if they want to watch Afflick stuff, I thought the same thing for a long time. That's why I was vegetarian for a long time. I it's very clear to connect with me that has been cut off an animal's body. You know, they suffered. You know that died when it comes to eg, and eggs and dairy the industry's at least as cruel the dairy industry, for example, the cows that aren't just give milk naturally. I mean naturally. Yes. But they don't just always give milk just like a human. They need to be pregnant or recently given birth for that to happen for us to get this milk die put them into a box, which is commonly referred to as a ripe rack human. We'll show it armed. Deep inside the cows anus to maneuver us subjects and inject at John would boost salmon, and we know what we would call that. If we had a human in there. So these animals that always don't want that to happen. That's why they stuck in this small box. So they can put this procedure on them. They kicked they bought that on one that they have a non month pregnancy lucky human, they give when they give birth the humans want to drink the milk, obviously, they don't want the baby's drinking. So they separate the mothers from the babies, which I've seen in in real time in in a dairy on in Israel that guy broader willpower, and he threw the baby in that. He will bow out of the baby. And this mother was hot on his heels Manche on a chase. And she sought a bellowing and crying, which they often do for days pointing in the same direction. I lost that baby. The very maternal animals. The baby boy's seen as a waste product because they'll never produce milk. So that gets sent to the slaughterhouse almost immediately at the slaughterhouse. The most humane method is to put a bulk onto the head of Fayza meadow. Both. Through the skull into them, Brian that stuns them, and then the other opened up like the body their neck sort of opened up on table or their hung upside down, and then they get stabbed in the throat, they moved off round, and they they cut the throat up, and then they bleed out. That's the baby boy's terrified this fucked up man, it doesn't get much worse than issue. Then the the the sisters of those baby boys when they're old enough. They're impregnated. And then they also used as a milk slave. That's their entire life for five to seven years as long as I can loss. They who come up to these machines. I take them milk as poss- in this shit. There's all the homes as all the cruelty. And then they every year, they repeat this process of reim- pregnant eating them taking their babies again five to seven years election to just fucked then they fucking Senator slaughterhouse. And this these cows men they can live twenty twenty five years so severely us. Luck machines, basically egg industries just the same. There's little baby chicks. There's little cute little yellow chicks all the boys. They're sent into machine code of Massa right up, which is like a Blenda drop off a convey bell into this machine that just literally shreds into pieces, if you could imagine if it was you that that was his big machine, and you dropped into a shred you into PACE's, man. Like, that's what the fuck that is like I fucking not mad that's like horror movies shit. And that's that's how you get eggs. You buy the eggs. That's what happens to shred little baby. Chicks so familiar, stop eating eggs outside of thinking. All right. I'm gonna eat eggs. Imagine throwing a little baby chicken or Blenda. I can't do that just have tofu scramble instead go to all the protein Tysoe same super easy to make cheaper. And none of the cholesterol, and none of the baby. Chicks, shredding it sucks. It sucks that you have to be so graphic and real to to really understand what's happening, man. Because it's so hard to know. It's it's it's necessary. It is Matt because it's so easy to ignore. It. It's what when you when you say what you're saying. I'm like, do you know what man it's fucking height sign up because it doesn't even anyone. Needed to Justice. Like, even even if I show you. But even if I show it to you that doesn't do Justice oughta like what we really need to do is imagine feeling it, and that's basically impossible to do because we're so privileged. We've never really suffered most of us in our lives. So even to try to connect and understanding have empathy for this suffering. It's on such another level that you you don't even comprehend. What it all? Basically what if you are someone who can understand what these animals are going through it? I mean, I mean, that's that's even a reach to even try to get close. But like there's a lot of people in third world countries who are suffering, and again, not even close to what the animals that you're describing what they're going. But you know, what's what are the vegan statistics in the middle of Africa in the Philippines. Like, I mean. I mean is it prominent there are they still I assume that it's less prominent, you know, what we the benefit of what we got here is we've got the education. I mean, a lot of these countries on a plan based by Defoe because there's just cheaper. But I don't know this on other Vega movement sort of happening worldwide differ level in different places. But the China's study came from is that they weren't studying like all vegans. They were just studying the majority of the diet in Manama steak. And so like when you look at Okinawa, for example, they still eat seafood, but their average age they live to one hundred like average, so they're eating primarily like sweet potatoes and a mix of vegetables. So yeah, I think yeah. There's certain areas though, like, you know, sub Saharan areas where like eight raw meat. They don't even cook the me. And so I think you're able to get a lot more nutrients from eating raw me than you are if being processed in a factory, I think that it does help to have had an. Of suffering which most of us have, you know, like, for example, it's much easier for mothers, I've found to relate to dairy cows. Because they they know what mess dot is feels like which is the the painful infection the cows get, you know, human women can get that as well. And they imagine what it'd be like to have their baby taken from them and to have this process go that's actually show documentary code. I think it's called the Hurd, which is basically that whole concept of humans being used for the milk. And that's always a good way to think of it. Like what if it was Schuman's in this situation? How would I feel about it? That helps me a lot to sort of navigate through trying to make choices. It seems extreme like when you were saying that I it sounds extreme. But then try to like take myself back to if I was living like just, you know, eighty years ago during the holocaust like, and I knew that that was going on. I'd be like yo like let's go over there and like NS shit. I was going to go one place. But on that on that note. I it's harder for me. At least I don't know about you to put those in the same category. Because I was talking about literally people that are and like, obviously, this is not a superiority thing. I mean, that's why I I sorta raise the red flag on that one thing. It was like let me on this question, then because this is this is what it comes down to you said, it's not a superiority thing. So tell me then what is the characteristic that humans do do not possess or animals doing possess? What do you think is? So different about us that makes it one of them so much less bad than the other. I I don't I don't think I don't think it's less bad. And listen like let me let me clarify like I think we for me personally. My movement is to is to push myself to use people who at least support humane practices hope, and I know hope and prayers are aren't the only answer sometimes. But hope that we as a society continue to move towards more humane practices while simultaneously doing better on the research side. I don't think yourself here yourself here is going to be through some massive change in human human consciousness. It ain't comment. I'm sorry to Berkshire baba. Dude. But we're we're struggling just to get people to not rape and kill out there. And so not really think of this maybe, but maybe a right not and obviously not everybody's doing that. But there's still the different. It's still a lot of shit going on out there. That's what I'm doing. Of course, he's fucked. So I think that simultaneously. You have these two things you have research and better non meat meat products. You know happening at the same time as as other thing. And I think that's where we get there. I just don't know that you'll ever see this true con shift. It'll be many different ways up the mountain working with all of them. You know, because they all whatever helps, but you said people still ripen murder, and they Ahmen but you'll not and other you, bro. And most people are not already agree that should his fought. And we don't want that enough society most people paying for animals to be right? The paying for animals to be motored almost everybody's paying for that. So that's one thing that we could easily just be like, you know, what we could eliminate a fucking shitload of animal ripen. Lamotta like that. If we all just did vegans already doing which really isn't very hot. I got one Florida. I wanted to say based on what you just said it is captain Paul Watson of say shepherd. And he said if something like this, he said, if you want to know where you would have stood during the civil rights movement on slavery daren't, ask yourself where you stand on slavery today Oscar self where you stand on the animal rights movement that's fucked up there. You can't say, by the way that set all the way that dude is the man I've spent I've spent quite a bit of time with them. He's fucking incredible. And one of the biggest animal rights activists in the world, you absolutely he goes and actually hunts people who hunt animals. Yes, that's bad. That's why would love to. What I would. I would love to hunt poachers, dude. We should we should link up with him potential. Have you heard of this guy? The the Japanese people in the Chinese people that legally whale like they kill. Oh, okay. See shepherd by their Boga and literally like shot them, bro. Flowing. See that's a show. I was built for that. They kill the whales and then dump them back into the ocean. After. But, but I I cannot say how much I disagree with that comparison that the quote that got us to talk well again again, it's because of urine discrimination. So I'll just ask you again men and tell me if you can answer this question, what is the what is it about other species that you view as less answer? Yeah. Like if you've got an answer. I'd love to hear it mine. My answer is is the the depth of the human mind. Okay. That would be my. So what do you mean? The ability to dig deep down find solutions to problems that we as a society face. Because. Yes, you're right. But it goes deeper than that. And also like it's ridiculous to I think dive into this because it's very obvious to human brain is unparalleled when it comes to any form of species on Berlow. And what about the humans who who don't have what about humans who don't have that ability? Do we think? Okay. Well, you're not as smart as you can't create this shit, this technology or whatever. So you're you're fair game. We don't do that. It's just purely based on no, they piloted the human species. And that's what I'm talking about. It's it's a form of discrimination. It's called spaces them. You're saying just because because if it was that if it was at trait that you just said if it was no it's because we have this depth of Mont humans have that. No, it's because when more intelligent normal humans of that intelligent. So it's not those things you when you come down to it's because we're human and just because if you've noticed because we're what or just because men then or good justifications for viewing. As you know as more superior than others. Now, we also appear in some ways, but the coal of. I'm not saying we smarter in some ways and some animals are smarter than some. Yes. What I'm saying is how do we what trait that must be fucking important trait is for they must be. They must be good then because what we're talking about is condoning throat-slitting, and we're talking about condoning. No, no, no, no, see that's where I'm going to have to I highly disagree tone. Like, it's. While that comparison in a way is truthful. I do believe it is a bit of a cynical leap to go from there to there. Let's every animal Pawtucket when you played. I yes, I hear you. Okay. So what are you? What are your hair? I just this. The graphic scare tactic is is it gets old. I'm trying to do that. I'm just trying to help you connect my let that's what every animal product. You have. That's literally will happen. I say every because there is there is responsible doing do we hunting that goes, hunting wise, Honey vegan. Nah. And we'll put out because he's vegans eat, Honey. Okay. So we can talk about that later. Oh shit. Begins. I think men that you know. To I like to say, slowly so much. But I guess the reason I do that is because you can't have made without it or electrocuting or whatever you can't have dairy from the shop or eggs from the shop without without the violence. So I went throats, my moth- that no it doesn't bother. It doesn't bother me. I just like I think it's a way to pull on people's emotions for I'm really trying to do that. I'm really trying to just remind you that hey, you know, how bad throw slitting society. Why why are we so quick to condone it for other species? And that's and that's just my question that I keep coming back to what is it about humans? What is it about us? What trait do we possess that is so much more special than other animals, you're saying it's depth of perception and all the ancillary? Well, if you think about it, it's Larry subjects that come along with that. Like, you said voice box that I I understand that listen at the end of the day. I you. You you don't have to go too far to pull my strings. I have a lot of feelings, and I hate I hate it. And I think I will continue to turn a blind eye to and that's just how continue to live on. It was like eating state. We'll see but back to my biggest point is that I think we just need to continue the research, and like there there have been tons of other species rights and human rights violations over the course of the past several thousand years that have been solved through research, some have been solved through conscious shifts. But a lot of them have been solved. Laura combination co show, and I think the solve for this as when we're able to put something on someone's played where they say this is quite literally as good as what I would have as if as if the animals throw counseling on amount. On a mascot and red. But we don't have to wait for that. You don't have to wait for that. And you also have one other point. You don't have to agree that we are equal, and I'm just saying on some level. We're not equal on every level. I'm just saying outright to live out lives, plus from certain animals that are far more advanced than us like gophers, for example. Yeah. Believe and people some people dolph. Yeah. So it's human somebody who Mr.. And I think we're I think like as we continue to go on. I think. Maybe it pains me to say it a little bit. And I hate to say, but I think they may just be a little bit ahead of the curve of calling. What does that pain you to say? I don't know I through I hate being there. But but whatever that kind of is what it is. And we'll think I think once it's once you put a rib eye on my on my plea that I can call it into. And maybe they've they've fashioned it so bleeds at a lab, whatever I will hunt every motherfucker that never slits the throat of a cow for the life after that. Like as of right now. Even even the substitutes the substitutes they're getting there. I know. I agree with you, bro. I you are a better person than me. Right. Right. I want to go back to like on that note. Like because I think that is a common misconception with people who are vegan is like they wanna come off as better. I definitely don't agree with you with that. Because maybe maybe I'm more aware of who said that come off his better know, some big. No. I mean, you just said like you're a better person than me. I think that's true because I'm just I'm just saying that a lot of people think on the other note that we're coming across as trying to be better. And it's not that. It's like, you're maybe more aware of of certain things of health. But you're more aware of things from creative standpoint may just as a comparison. So that doesn't make me better that doesn't make you better. It's more like EV each person has a different thing that they can bring to the table. And so I think like vegans as a community have something new to bring to the table, quite literally. And there's also frigging annoying vegans like Tito. So I think like there's good should also can be annoying as fuck. So Elliott, you said, well, I will let me just touch on that point. I definitely don't think I'm better than anybody. That's exactly why on vegan on I feel that way. At all. I feel that. I I feel very very grateful to have lunch information that and they would may to make choices that closed. Fof a lot less home. That makes me feel very very good. And I don't want this to be an exclusive club. Like now, we want to be better than everybody not the total opposite. I want. Everybody part of this crewman because I want all this. I wanted to slaughter houses closed down. Earlier you said you might have joked man, I was just a joke. But something about over you not asked you about you being like may seem use an asshole or whatever. And I just don't like not at all. No, no. No. No. No. No. You just as a joke though. You know, what I said you making me feel like, oh, okay. No. I'm just saying, you know, when you when you go as as graphic as you do, and which I said also, by the way is necessary. It does make people go f-. Shh shit. Am I doing the right thing? In fact, I believe you iterative why you even started to consider that being of sharing or going vegan. Because you saw the documentaries because you got involved because you saw the graphic you the images replace in your mind where you were forced to go to replace of veganism. Yeah. I guess what? I was trying to say is that I don't judge anybody man like we're all on our own poff on. And you can't help. What information you've got? You can't help the level, of empathy. You've got ones granola like old grown. We'll trying to lift each other up and be better. I have a question for you to just out of curiosity like genuine curiosity. Do you think that we should show or educate kids in school where meat really comes from? And like how it's how it's made like how their lunches put on their plate. Do you think? That would be I absolutely. Yeah. I'll do I am. I don't think like do you remember ever watching a video? No, I think I've really found out there. Should be a sprinkle of macro thought. I don't think there should be a sprinkle of knowledge that is not available for people to absorb you know, what I'm saying including meat like, I the more people know, the better, I think the better the world's going to be and I and I think you know, if I was raised differently. Sure. Maybe I'd be vegan right now. But I was never. Yeah. Ever ever shown that you know, and also like try shit. That's why like, you know, I'm sitting here. I'm kind of contesting you because I know a lot of people are iffy about veganism. Try try try everything once like over it. See if it works for you. It's fucking dope. It's it's great for a lot of people. It's changed a lot of book and lives. I'm gonna go back said I'm going to go back. Yeah. I was just iterating my experiences. You know, one of the one of the things I thought was really crazy. My mom's was a nurse for ever and my dad's super involved in medical devices. And I've talked to a bunch of people in the medical space that as soon as they open someone's chest or they open their heart for like heart surgery. They can tell if that person eats meat or doesn't because of the artery. So like you pulled up, you know, we were talking earlier you pulled up a Rockefeller. He had six heart transplants, totally shit. Six different hearts. Yeah. That's crazy lift ill. He was one hundred and one. So you ran through six hearts. The average person can't afford to live. I think I think you're going to. I think you're gonna find exceptions. And I like my my grandfather was died at ninety six years old, he ate eggs every single his friends smokers too. It does. And I think and by the way. Listen, I it's a lot of it comes down to that. And some people their genes have been like, they're stronger, they handle things and something board susceptible. What are you going to say about educating kids on where meat comes from? No. Oh, I wasn't my only point on that one was just like it's sometimes I think about like where the line gets drawn with that stuff like do show kids where the floor came from. It's made. It would do you know what I'm saying? And is there going to be an outrage over the fact, no, no, no, no because the floor won't affect the future of humankind. If we sorta consuming differently. I mean, it will if we keep cutting down trees for floors. Floor, sir. Yeah. But tenor point maybe more for for what would Rusia, but don't say. Yes. Sure. Like, that's a massive problem. The cutting down of trees for for four station. Yes. Yes. Right. So it's like it's like where do you where do you draw the line? Do you show them that? Yes. You do you have to show me. I just make decisions for themselves, which I which I agree with which I think which which is really cool about like, I don't want to give it away. But what we're all about to talk about this week about like different stuff that we can do to contribute to the planet, and what we can do with our our voices. Now, you know, you compare that to when we were kids there was just a few channels that you're watching. There was no internet like that wasn't a thing. And as soon as that kind of came to be now, all these other people have voices now all these people can talk about stuff. So that's why I've really support what you're doing because he adds uncomfortable as hell and yet gets a lot of flack. But at the same time, we're using this platform that we have to communicate. So the the. Access to knowledge is so vast and now, and I wanna be a part of spreading that which is what you we've got a big meeting coming up this week guys and do some good things with this planet, dammit. And on that note to I think one thing that, you know, in terms of being plant base when I look at people it goes beyond all the ethics and all this stuff. I I think another point is to like we live in a very scarcity mindset nowadays. Like where you see like Trump is our president. He's promoting jobs. Like jobs is always the thing. So in order to have more jobs. We gotta have coal, you know, we got to destroy the environment more. And I think when you think about veganism or plant based. It opens up so many opportunities because now you look at a McDonald's like if you want to start a fast food company in Michigan or Ohio where we're from you. You're going to get run out because there's fifty other ones but say you find a location a bigger city. That's maybe a little more open, and you open something that's plant-based. There's a huge opportunity there. So. Shift happening exactly veggie grill. Just sat up veggie grill. We've had a edgy girl. Sometimes. And this is how I know that were closing in on good terror fear. Sometimes we just give veggie grill because we legit want veg. Not even close. Veggie grew like awful Obama. I want the buffalo Chilin wings or whatever they called like because it's really good shit. And I like good to him in that direction. I want to bring this up before before we go to an audio on the oh, I thought you were saying go to veggie grill. Go to do that to to you seen this, bro. Big vegan YouTubers leaving leaving veganism after we broke down eight riots after thirty five day water fast. Yeah. You saw this kind of reads. No that one. You know, what I'm going to read, bro? Moshe I so he decided to try animal products. He ate local raw eggs and wild caught. Salmon, he call the move a huge identity crisis. But he admitted he felt better even said another quote here after eating salmon, he ejaculated for the first time in months. The hell is this guy eating before shit third? A third. There's a part where he says he couldn't do any push. I couldn't do pushups without getting injured. Well, he's got this Scott. Dude. Thank god. We didn't hang out with them. He came to the fight is easy. British is is he a nut who oh well, pretty nutty? Jackie Lee is in thirty five days like dog. What would you do? That's not about be Viva. I'm not and I really liked and I went on knew him. I thought it was very cool guy. He's done a lot for veganism. He won injure warrior on a plant based on how it was a very he's one of the world's best free run-ins. Oh shit. Yeah. On on a plant based diet. I think he mind personal opinion of this guy is he's striving for a level perfection that doesn't exist. And he's always trying new things to do the thirty five day water fussy drank his own piss for two years, always one of the piss drinkers straight talk about this. And does that qualify. You. I think anything is sixteen. Yeah. It's it's should be questioned. It's like if I was just sipping my glass of pissed right now. So it shouldn't be on the broadcast. It's not that. It's just like now. Yeah, you're right. Get the fuck. Yeah. So I think man, he's he's one of I don't know what it is with him. I think tuners whereas mental health is out of whatever. Or what is extreme diets have done for him? And you know, he felt Bitta after eating after eating whatever exile seminal some if I go vegan again, and I can't finish dude. I'm be really mad at you, bro. I got a good statistic for you, man. Oh shit. You should try to get up. So I don't have the numbers, right? Luca vegan verse Omni erectile dysfunction Omni erectile dysfunction. I'm gonna make that my kids middle. It's towards better like four. Honestly, let's talk about this like vegan Boehner's. Defense talk about it. They're better, dude. What do you mean to better? They're better days. That it's a real thing. You can laugh you can think I'm joking. It's a real thing. Also when you he didn't that good food and not that rotting flesh things. You know by tell me, your vegan bone is better than mine. You're not gonna tell me. I I'm I might not go there. But it's we can good so dope about a guy. Like, I never struggled with ED or your fucking twelve. No, no. But cut back to the owners are all about blood flow. So let's exam. That's exactly. Exactly. That's what I was going to get. Giddy like the ability to just go full sun. It just happens. Bro, happens more. He's just a flag on all day are no my God. Not sure he's got got a corn husks. I don't know Satistics. Oh, got vegetables and the best way to not only prevent E D, but the heart disease. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stats in this paragraph. Cool. We'll look that shit up. Basically, you stay hot long more years. If you're my best. Based on but going back to anyways. So good. So it's like, it's a it's if you want to live to one hundred fifty L P, but do you want to get owners? Oh, that's what I'm saying. People like the the mentality of like dude saying like your week, if you're vegan it's like, bro. Let's talk radio eighty. Let's let's talk technically anybody can get a boner eighty nowadays. Just got problem pill hundred twenty let's talk Boehner literally any age, you just take a pill. That's nothing nowadays. It's true. A real bussing question for you. Because you Australia, right. Obviously. Speaking of Boehner's, have you ever been scared that you might fall off the side of the flatters? The podcast. I gotta ask. 'cause you're right fucking. They remind I I've never wide about it before. I've never swam out. How far swim is something to think about something? I'll keep it in one took better. Let listen I wanted. Do I go to an audio only QNA I want to ask you a little bit about pita? Steve Irwin can't do this on video. It's going to be juicy conversation. Doing the audio only QNA yo James. Thank you for joining us, bro for reels and educating about us us about your vegan vegan life. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on a really appreciate when you talk about. This course, we're going find you on social at James espey on Instagram James Facebook James in Cali on YouTube book, incredible. And how do you say that without using words? That's not getting my pen and paper. Okay. Yeah. We love you guys hit that subscribe button. We're going to audio only eighteen Spotify right now, we're going to get juicy. I love you guys. Leave your feedback with low take it easy piece. Stay there. Don't move everyone for you know, the amount of soy comments in this one. Ooh can be big call soil not enough weight enough. Snaps dope to me. Yeah. I'm proud soy by. Fucking awesome. I go. It will surprise on the way. When you say, you got a little surprise on the way talking about it. I get really worried about what that might want to ask you about this this, Peter Stephen bluff, I. Okay. I ask you a series of questions about you, bro. I often off-limits what age were you? Vegetarian. When did you start that saw the twenty four twenty six twenty six men? Yeah. And then when you go to veganism a year later sober your later. Gotcha. Too. Two. This a sensitive, and I don't want to feel good funny. Feathers were you ever a drug addict or an alcoholic or a sex addict? Or we struggling from any sort of large. I need to turn my life around. Now sort of some big, bro. Yeah. I had a big tunnel. House dog knows we can't. So when all seventeen though some heavy shit for three years. I was on chemotherapy, I was given six weeks to live. If I didn't start the the treatment that would recommending, but that will worked out I've only got a few scars to show for thankfully that which airing that time I was in the hospital. I was in and Big Mac bug. I was on this dose of steroids. Pernis learn that was so high couldn't sleep more than two thousand not fro from month. I was just eight and that's all I wanted to do. And there was no satiated my appetite. I put on fifty pounds. So quick man that my skin ripped and bled on my saw the Gopi stretch. Yeah. Real quick. And. And that got me into binge eating. I was aiding for emotional reasons. I didn't know I was in motion eight I didn't even know what emotional eating was over time this binge eating this insatiable trying to just get food. And because of the good feeling, and it's like, it's like coke Madison as it was off that good feeling you just want more. So that's what I was like with binge eating food as soon as I swallowed that loss. Bought I needed more. Those those no say shedding that feeling because food is to satisfy hunger, not to satisfy happiness or any of this other shit. So that led to blame you not the believe me that I think a lot of people suffer from where some sort of body. Dismore fiar familiar. It was just I wanted to eight so much food that I would get to the point where I would spew. So I'd feel better because I was eating so much. I feel like absolute shit and during this time as well when I had cancer, and I was on this came therapy and shit. They told me I was you know, maybe I was going to die. Very good chance. I was going to die and that all of a sudden allowed to drink or anything like this. So I decided taking hape. Pills. Heaps ecu's hates sa- speed. And February Kirk smokin Wade all day every day and just fucking going hard man because I thought I was going to die this became something that I did get a really good handle of off. We're not attend three. I was just isn't that fucking bad? Like crack you nothing. You know? I was I was in control of Cape Ann job. And I was fine. But I was also very into. Taking a lot of judge really pushing my limits men sometimes then some out of drug induced psychosis when I was twenty one the happening. I had way too much and for about six months I had lost. My grip of reality was what did you take too much of? What was it coke? And I was having. I think the problem was two things one was that I had my first acid trip after four days of having mushroom sporadically throughout the days, which I hadn't had macho of at that time. And then I also was reading this very spiritual book, first spiritual book, whatever read quote, a new by echo tollway. He's right that fucking good book man read many times since anyway, and this this basically he's teaching this technique observe the sensation in your body. Every time you notice that you're thinking come out of you thought into your body, and that cried and a lot of power because we're often thinking about the future often thinking about the poss- I saw getting a lot of path from this technique, but this technique was polluted by the amount of drugs had been on. Around this time. And so I had this drug induced psychosis I to really work to get my shit together. And you know, I've been telling myself some stories that were true that I thought would legit. But also, though some shit icon. Explain about being connected to the university of in a very interesting way. And you know, it's a fucking that's a whole nother poke, man. Yeah. It was a crazy crazy trip. Anyway. So off that you know, that's a some point the blame your go real bad. Well, some some days I was binging and purging five times a day. Maybe even more. I remember that was probably a lot of the days. I just always wanted to what was your what was your poison last game as you to foam it back. Mine was anything because I Ali enough. And I'm not even going to do thirty seconds this time because we've talked about it in the past. But I have drug really severe drug addiction that boys and years. No, no, no. It's not. But then I also formed a runaway when I got clean a bit. Of a binge eating situations because it was like almost like a replace addiction. Sokoll thing was. Hash Browns, and like French fries, and she'll love fucking like fried potatoes. Bro. That's soda man will. Yeah. That you you set at sponsor for solar when I'm trying to cue myself for this fucking Belay mill which I was like how did I get to this point on the personal trainer? They impose them trying to like seven years at this point. How did I get here? How am I trying to teach people how to be healthy living when I don't even have my food anyone knee onto control? I'm so out of control with this shit. I'm looking into sugar addiction. I'm looking into all this shit. And I didn't know what what was my problem until I did this for positive meditation cost ten day solemn, meditation, you meditate eleven hours for ten day. And that's where I really went deepened. I learned this technique about sitting with uncomfortable sensations rather than reacting to them, which is all I do. I get a craving for food. And boom, I'm they're reacting straight up. I would never be like, okay. If I sit with this eventually it will pass and the next time, I get this craving. It'll be a less strong. And I'm a bit more strong. I didn't know that ticket out of their man. And then I read this book off to that meditation that X worked perfectly with a code and emotional eating. But Dr Jennifer tights, I read the back of this. I was like this is fucking made. This is my K right here. And I read the book and that was it. So then I just practice technique. I wasn't perfect straightaway. But then the Diaz valve songs, which was also the day that I went vegan was also that they I said from this day on 'em never binging and purging again that was five years ago now, and I remember just in the same way that I said that I was traveling doing my balance around Australia, and I was like fucking on binge. And so I ate a tub of Oscar vegan ice cream and Hoffa tub peanut butter, and I'm sitting in this is the easiest thing to get back off. So that's all I wanted to do. But I'm sitting there. I'm like, nah. If I do that, then I'm just back in this sock. Was you know, that that foul I made myself never binging and purging again means nothing. So now, I'm not doing it. And you're just going to sit with this no matter how shit you feel too bad. You chose it. You're going to see what this should now before I feel shit not to go to split up a few good again anyway. And then the next morning I woke up I was like, whoa. Still few shit. But coup. Will next time. When I had a binge however long later a week two weeks. Whatever it was I was like ninety percent into my binge on my shit. I'm not going to spew this up, man. Maybe I should stop now. Because if I ten percent more is just going to Miami ten percent more shit. I'm not going to be satisfied from that ten percent anyway. So I stopped a little bit sooner. And then I slept a little bit sooner next time and over time. I just I get these fuck out of the best relationship with food. Now, the one I always dreamed of where eight when I'm hungry. I'll stop enough will sometimes I'll treat myself to paid so Keiko whatever but often I'm just like, non glued. I'd rather just ate the good shit. It's awesome, got them and awesome. And anybody can get this just the path this technique man of learning how to sit with uncomfortable sensations, realizing that you're eating for emotional reasons and go when you got these cravings, you let it sit you let it be. It's gonna pass. It's always impermanent went up Haas's. And you didn't you didn't satisfy that craving by going to your drug whether it's food or whatever drug when you just let up poss- nature take care of it. Then you're stronger, and you, you know, the next home. It's. Pasta. It might be five minutes might be an Abacus Ghana poss- sit with a sit with that uncomfortable until you get comfortable to the point where those cravings domains Shittu, even faze you. Good for you, man. I'm with the drugs. I, you know, I I just go to a point where I realized same time in the vassals Anita little this shit. Go to see how broad I can Sean without putting this this extra energy into may own. See what happens if I meditate two hours a day on say where I can take it where I can take me. And you know, that's what I did, man. And. You know, we'll be like that was I did that for five years. I didn't even have a coffee nothing, and there's been a couple of times since well, I've just saying if I could go back there with any of the drugs that I once enjoyed and I realized that not con-, you know, I'm better without it mostly. And so I just let it go man and through fucking hape sped off like now w Thomas if I'm straight up there'll be times where maybe I'll have a little bit of mushrooms hero. This something that I know I'm not going to abuse because I feel like that should be medicinal. Done in the right setting with the right mind frame at the rod dose, very carefully. You know, disabused us should it can get really walled. But you know, familiar at least feel like this some additional benefits to certain plant. Medicines of never go back to CoCo pills. And even weighed on that shit is just like my crypt and not. So I didn't go the. Interesting. Well, ask you about Peter. You on board. Are you on board for pita, you're on the pita train huge fan of all the good? They've done. Nobody's perfect, man. I think they've done a lot of good shit arising awareness. I don't probably more than anybody any group. They've also got a lot of campaigns that I think just totally crazy. This thing that they were Steve Irwin where the sort of disdained Google's use of Steve Irwin. Yup. You with it. I mean, what are you? What did I say again everyone? I think. She got up. Yeah. I'm actually I don't want miss speak here. Cool just glance at us. So I'm not off on man. But I do remember having thoughts about it. When I read it. I mean, I'm sure it's it's. It's right up. Your alley. Let's see what they said. The tweet was hashtag Steve Irwin Irwin was killed why while harassing a Ray he dangled his baby while feeding crocodile in the wrestled wild animals. We're minding their own business. Today's hashtag Google doodle sends us dangerous fawning. Message wild animal animals are entitled to be left alone in their natural habitats. Why strongly grew that loss sentence wild animals? The best thing to do is leave them alone in the natural habitats ought to know what he was doing. We've that Stingray. Whether he was harassing. It was just in the water. We ought to know about him dangling the baby his baby while it was feed in the crocodile assumption. I don't know what I do know is that if you donate to keep animals in an enclosure lack of zoo, and you know, you're you're just basically imprisoning them and they've done nothing wrong. I'm against that. I'm against exploiting animals and manipulating this situations or whatever to be entertaining fisherman's on when we had we did yoga with goats today coup. What do you make of that? Well. I don't know, man. I mean, it's you know, you did yoga with goods. I think probably that was fine. You know, it's like doing yoga with dogs. It's probably fine. But also did you call a one of those like, what are they? Those out of files nine hundred they bring in they bring in the petting zoo. If you like coal petting zoo, even those animals when they get too big. They get slow too like if that's sort of shit, you funding to get these animals here. That's good. Now this lady referred to the the the goats kids small time like meditate together. She they actually live in the bedroom. And she lives in the barn. Actually. Yeah. Shit. We're going to send it goes both ways we're going to send hito over there. It's the human rights organization to go get her out just on on that thing, man. Like, you know, you said she sees them like their kids a little farmers say shit. Like, I treat them as good as I treat my children, and then they kill him. Yeah. I'm thinking like I've seen these animals in the right proxies. Yeah. My my note on the PD thing. It's like, okay. It's an opinion at at some points in opinion to say what they said and tweet it, and I think it's like at some point just shot. I think about what they do. They do controversial shit to get conversations happen because conversation can go along with people. But I think I agree with you, which which is, you know, a tactic that that works. But also, you you have think about how many people they just turned off on from being interested in plant based or any anything coming from them because they just demeaned like a childhood idol of yours. So it's like, yeah. Strategic now. But ultimately I'd love to see that boring. They had a lot of interesting when you have somebody there just being like ios is probably one of the things do the bad ones. Yeah. But I think you know, it's it's hot man like you trying to end and some big shit here. And you know, by any means necessary a lot of people would say if you will one of those individuals in that situation at a slaughterhouse you'd be saying fuck. Yep. He does say everything do all the things. Get true true. Have you seen how to train your dragon three saying the first one I loved it now. So that was a real Fagin mess will. One of my favorites. You should watch a second. And then you should watch the third thirty just came out. It's in theaters and oddly enough. What you're saying is really resonates in how to train your dragon three who. Hey crews with me, right? Yeah. Doesn't it doesn't do. I give it away. It's this is a spoiler alert. This is sport hunts because you're still listening right now a really want to say. Can't stop listening. I'll say without giving. Fuck I can't say it's say. If you wanna watch how to change in three bought this like spoiler. Spoiler alert. In the end, bro. Even though he loves his dragon. His dad taught him for his dad as the ways that time that the greatest gift that you can give is the gift of love and the kids dragon fell in love with a female dragon. I don't I don't know. If you remember the night fury his dragging is one of one or or so he thought right? So this may found that that's his girl, bro. That's that's his that's going to be his future and his skin to he ends up. Letting his dragging go off to live in love with his may in this sacred safe dragging kingdom instead of harnessing him and using him as a pet to further his agenda as a Viking and. And. It is like he's leading the animal go go live his life, and putting his personal personal beliefs and wants a side, that's cool. And it was cool. You know, what man I said, the would Nobu, and I guess this is another thing that I did want to mention some Gladys came up again, you know, Bain vegan and doing the right thing by animals. It's not something special. It's not some heroes shit. It's it's just the least we should do like the least we should do is be vegan. That's the stash back causing not causing unnecessary harm. Like, that's not like, whoa vegans. Ethical was like now, we just stopped paying people to kill them for us. That's pretty fucking standard. Yeah. You know what? I mean. And so like that guy. Yeah. Cool, man. I'm glad you had that realization about that. Dragon. You know, I'm glad he had realization. Here's here's why also I bring it up because like if infected me, I don't know why. But it was like I it was one of the first is I did look at like a civilization granted the dragons like, hyper intelligent in the movie, but it was the first time I looked at a civilization of. Of quote, unquote animals as like holy shit. They do have their own hierarchies. They've you fall in love they have families, and they're gonna go off and be independent without us. If we let them, and it was just it was interesting. Yes. Remember, we were watching those SeaWorld documentary. And it was like the killer whales when they're taking their family, the family knows. And they're sad. Ryan battling out of the ocean. And the dolphins Tajti that don't leave the fam-. So even though all the Slota's happening. They stay and try to help as long as possible they get and that's what they prey on. That's what humans we pray on that loyalty to their family. Then are they gonna be like fuck every every dolphin for themselves. They're like, nah FMCS. Like, we need we need to try to help each other. Yeah. The cove that that that's I think that film of damn that's crazy. Have you seen only while shout out of cool shot out of film hot watch, dominion dot? Dot com. That is a new documentary that has come out in Australia. It is all undercover shit or hidden cameras and whatever it's fresh for each footsie called dominion. Okay. And you go to watch the needle comes on my YouTube Chowk. Okay. Okay. And you might never seen. Most people never say no spoke to people who eight years old have never seen what happens animals before they become that neither up package on the supermarket shelf. So if you want to just check it out like I think we all owed them at least an hour and a half of our time to say what we're paying for. When we ate these things. I don't think people are worried about the hour and a half. Ain't they're worried about what they feel like for the next ten years after watching it. You know what I'm saying? Like if I knew it was going to be an hour and a half. And I would just watch it and turn it off. I don't want to watch it because I don't wanna I don't wanna feel the thing. Like, I'm I'm starting easier. Just turning my back on the situation. Eating burgers and tastes good. But but don't you think about stopping eating dragon after you saw? No longer eat free ragging. Cou that's it. That's all we got. Thank you again. James, really? Appreciate it. Spread. This message to sharp. We love you guys. We'll see you next time. Preset everybody.

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The Zeit of the Living Trend 11/26: Albanian Earthquake, 1917, Bill Cosby, Alia Shawkat

The Daily Zeitgeist

14:13 min | 11 months ago

The Zeit of the Living Trend 11/26: Albanian Earthquake, 1917, Bill Cosby, Alia Shawkat

"Hello the Internet to site of the living trendsetter. Take tomorrow off voices. I sound worse than I feel l. but I sound like shit shooter. I'm Jackie O'Brien Stevo. That's Stevo Miles is great. Yeah welcome welcome. I knew your voice was sounding a little under the weather but hearing it through a microphone right now by in her mother's wanting you to get in bed hot water bottle thermometer under my tongue. I've been thinking about that depiction of a sick person for a lot of said I think maybe five times a filling their nose as always like being read. Yeah got a big red nose. Yeah a big Wad rubber bottle on your head a thermometer the whole time. Yeah I consider it always ends just bursting out mercury out of yeah and when you blow your nose like turns into a pom Pom. That's shaking shaking your local my new show or the sickest teens donors on and we talk about what to lit wits lick to you. Bro Man. Albanian earthquake quick. Yeah that's not. That's not lit. It's a that's one of the bigger stories right now. Six point four magnitude earthquake Is is what they say and at the moment they have twenty three people that they believed to be dead and several more missing and many anymore injured but yeah man. Earthquakes are the strongest to hit Albania in forty years man. Yeah man it's There's something really terrifying about an earthquake like many other walk in a place where it's kind of a En Ville constantly looming over your head to keep the cartoon imagery going. Yeah no one hundred percent. I mean between that and then also going to Japan all the time I was showing from one earthquake fantasy land to another other I mean. Luckily you know after the Kobe earthquake in Japan like a lot of buildings had to be retrofitted or rebuilt or whatever new buildings had have a lot of really good mechanisms for structural integrity. So it's different when you're in a earthquake in like newer buildings Japan like they're meant to sway. Yes Oh my uncle used to live in the top floor of this apartment building. He lived in my God when the Shit will get rocking Mike off. The water is sloshing out of the fish tank. Yeah I've actually actually been building out here during a very small earthquake but it was like right under the building I was in and yeah it was weird. 'cause it wasn't really a violent experience it was just like a strange surreal experience. Yeah Um and they strike it no you know without warning. It's pure like a weather thing you you can kind of prepare for right and forecast that but with this all we have is like people being like. I don't know man probably soon and probably the worst thing ever probably leave fifty years. That's a big window rare media. Keep procrastinating not getting in earthquake kit but miles. It's like a blink of the eye on the earthquake scale Gal scale of geology so that's comforting Speaking of long periods of time nineteen seventeen seventeen was a long time ago your voice. I know it's funny to hear cracks and my voice keeps undercutting me like a teenager who is trying to sell me like black market veins. It's like Oh gee could not from you sir. Yes I'm sorry but nineteen nineteen seventeen is a movie. Yes that's coming out. The reviews are in and people are really. It reminds me at Dunkirk when people borjas Cream their genes about about that movie cream then steaming them right out. Yeah yeah this one. If you haven't heard about the movie it looks phenomenal. Because essentially it's a real time film that his mental look like it's one continuous master heavily inspired the director said by twenty four. Really know in my mind I believe sometimes like hold on that that completely took me out of a World War One epic But you know even when you watch some of the. If you're not convinced about this film sure the trailer is excite you but if you just watch some of of the feature at about how they made it and you see the painstaking efforts they took to seamlessly. Do things like get a car from a like a Jib or like a crane shot and then take like then you see like camera. Operators come out of the muck to like unhinged that camera and then attach it to a vehicle to then do to another shot so the soldier can like run through an active battlefield. Like when you see all those things behind you like oh right. This is like choreography and creativity to the next level and a lot of in camera special effects. I'm I love in camera. That's my loving camera. That's why I'm a big criminal and BRO head. Because he's all about an cameraman. That's the whole thing and one of the reviews. I mean everyone is basically finding over the fact that it's like it's technically amazing to watch and also very powerful emotionally nationally to. It's not just like a like Gee whiz Thrill ride and just as first line from slash slash film. They said not since mad. Max Fury Road has a film so fully. The embraced the motion part of motion picture. That is a good first line because I think Matt Fury Road is one of such a great film and I read somewhere at. This is like a steady like one long shot. Basically that can't be true is it. What's probably stitch together together? It's like how Birdman right like one. Continuous shot but you know yet. A little tricks. I don't know I can't imagine if you had to reset a shot in a enough battlefield scene. Yeah that would probably take hours. You know I don't know depending on what kind of like effects it had on the field but yeah but I feel like this is going to because I think that it actually The hardcore history about world war one like really got people in the mock like in terms of like just making that war really interesting and also like this role for people again. Yeah I I feel like this will probably coming around along at the right time. Such a brutal like Mash up of modern and archaic warfare snails exactly and then you just lead to massive casualties so yes time that it was just it was on this scale right yeah they're they're like all sorts of surreal things like his Dan Carlin the host of hardcore histories description description of like the cloud of mustard gas. That's just like this. Like physical thing that you can see rolling downhill towards you you at least two miles per hour and like you can't do anything about it like it's you can't run your rally like in a trench or some- worse if you in your head you're just going to get cut down by machine in the BLOB is just coming for you Very surreal stuff. Wow also trending. Is Bill Cosby Ashby. He gave his first interview since being Thrown in jail right. And it's just sort of an interesting study into the mind of a a narcissist who isn't a his entire universe on a version of the world that revolves around him right 'cause he just refuses to let the reality and that he's done anything wrong. These a Predator that he's a monster. Yeah was he saying like the jury like set him up yeah bunching I'm trying like plants and actors and yeah I mean we saw when he first got off and came out of the came out of the courtroom. It was like hey hey thought it was like a fun time to make a fat Albert reference or clearly that you don't realize that time society culture has like actually there now diametrically opposed like you and you stir not going yeah cool. I mean also the true hallmark of a guilty person when they go. I was set up right Um Only a very few people may have actually like have actually been set up to look a certain way in a crime but like that is such a such an easy way to preserve. Serve your own I guess innocence. Or your idea. Your your identity as a person who's innocent by some set up with a vast conspiracy to set that bill cosby up verses Bill Cosby just leading His absolute power and complete control over situations get to his head head. I don't know which one I believe it kind of goes with a like. I always talk about how famous people dress like the year where they hit peak famed. Yeah Yeah Yeah and like. She's still dressed like he did like in the eighties but he I think his brain is also kind of like frozen in amber from that I mean who knows what list where he's at sort of in his ability or yeah there's also it's mostly blind and Elliott Eliya show. Cut that how you pronounce that maybe booth. Yeah maybe blew away. No no what's Tow by or is it not few K.. Or Bluetooth I think she was blue even though fugate was her dad right. Okay anyway yes or many other things from search party or you might remember her from three kings as a little girl. No she's A. I remember seeing her on arrested development and be like she was in three kings. She was a little girl who had arm arm cast on. And that's an incredible. pull on your part I look again I have a memory for the most inconsequential shit. I'm like you mean all your comfort sleep through kings three kings like what a what a movie like I mean Walberg and Clooney and it's just like a great film also. Yeah but with the very odd take on like what our involvement is in the Middle East. No really yeah you can tell. It's a little bit dated too little data So this is some some dumb shit but she's wash rending because she's been seen hanging out with Brad Pitt quite a bit and People are speculating that they're dating dating. He's fifty five she's thirty kind of like A. I don't know I don't know who I don't like it for like. Are they in cool and interesting and he's old still like seen as the hot guy. I think is all like dudes of a certain age like day. Brad Rabbit's probably gotta be like the peak looking dude right on an away. Even then you're like man. I would probably be with Brad Pitt right. Yeah so I guess if you talk talk to like a thirty year old woman. She's probably like yeah. It's only dudes like man. I don't know Brad Pitt's fucking hot dude. Yeah Oh no is are are are they dating are they saying are there law. They're saying no that they're just friends. There's just friends who was apparently also friends with Konya so Brad. Brad Pitt is a a hipster. He's having a midlife crisis. Well he so this is all cente- divorced Angelina Jolie and got sober and now he's he's found a new path in this life. He's sober. Yeah you got sober like right around the time of their divorce. Oh you know it's funny. We may have even talked about this on board watch that he was. Yeah because I think there was like some that was part of the shit that it was fucking up their family. Oh yeah and I think also maybe affecting his ability to ever have custody of them to write like okay yes loved the kids enough to put it down. Yeah is this is wild This article about Him and maybe booths relationship said that He and Angelina Jolie were got divorced. In September. Two Thousand Sixteen after two years of marriage does not seem short. I guess they were just had a long courtship. I guess Okay because because I feel like they were just super together for decades hippy. dippy people of the Earth Low right right or united colors of Benetton Family Ray. And we're like marriage. I don't know because I think they have kids together. That are older than that. Oh yeah I feel like Sir necessary. Shiloh was there first biological child. I look I don't know I just know that I just know the names around. Yeah I got a lot of tables to do all right. I'M GONNA go gargle some Salt water is that that works Yeah I think so that was harvey. Yeah well I thank you for joining me teen vape salesman. I gotta go vape some. I heard your voice one vape vape yes. Should we tell people that I delivered this whole thing through one of those Mission creep up to trick or what did they call it. Problematic Madison Park Cancer Kazoo. What he said about the what was his uncle's name? Yeah and who is like were you stationed ending. I remember that was one of the first lines of South Park. I remember was like what is this show man and I remember my friend's Dad Uh Who's a Serb NAM like. I didn't know what the name was at the time raised like Benson. I thought he was like saying. I didn't know what same little bit history. All right guys. Enjoy your evening. We'll be back tomorrow with more pocketful tatum.

Brad Pitt Earthquakes Japan Angelina Jolie Jackie O'Brien Stevo Miles Bill Cosby Wad Bill Cosby Ashby Middle East Dan Carlin Konya Brad Rabbit Mike Madison Park Cancer Kazoo Birdman salesman Albania
88 | Mailbag: Nicki Minaj, Christians, & A Dead Giveaway!!

Is The Mic Still On

51:31 min | 2 years ago

88 | Mailbag: Nicki Minaj, Christians, & A Dead Giveaway!!

"The homeless, or she got problems as only reason why she went to a black man, Charles Becker beer there, hey, was make sure you guys go to the is the my still on YouTube channel and subscribe. We will start uploading video from our recording sessions for you to check out. One of the first videos we have right now is the sorry to bother you. Movie review. Go ahead. Check that out and subscribe to the channel while you there. A lot of get you guys have been asking for us to put video up so you can see our reactions. Well as happening, we listened to you guys. So thanks for listening and we appreciate the support. His appetite of is the Mike Salona sponsored by seatgeek and event ticket marketplace and aggregate, or of sports concert and theater tickets. Just download the seek app or go right to seek dot com and enter promo code dead end. You can use the code to get ten percent off your next purchase at the checkout. Off, you got Cheonan busy, so forget my people. The people wanna know was the Mike still lawn of safe? Everybody. You're listening to another episode of the is the my still on podcast. This is Ken, hey, guys, what's up at sofi. Sofi is rod, aka, modest media is easy for thirty. What's going on. It's Mike seatown. This is a mill back episode so you know, but it'd be a lot of topics, but so he has some feelings about Nikki soon. We want to hear them. I mean, this is an at his before needed Ashby. I, yeah, I do agree that genie's Ashby. She has a lot of yes-men in her corner. Everybody that seems to be on her side is clearly second. Her dick from the back. And. Like Epson issue. So you ain't lives yet? I guess not. Mike. But yes. I don't. I don't. I don't subscribe. I don't subscribe to Queen radio, but I do see it every time I does. It come on Tuesday or one day. The wrong guy, right. I don't know. But anyways, it's all, I guess, always trends, and I always catch the people be quoting complex Bill. She was just talking about her experience with what happened with the fight. All she talked about it. Yeah. Of course, thinks he really was come on is corn she's, but you think she would. Of course. It's so we're go shoot thrown understand that hardy be through shooter. I would think knows that hard is not playing games right now at all, and she's been silent for a minute after she posted that little threat. So she proper. Okay. So there were a couple of things. NICKY said she said that it was embarrassing because she saw how people were looking at her when the whole altercation happened. She's basically taking the stance of, oh my gosh, we're nice, white fancy event, and it's just so embarrassing for us to ever be acting like this, how I'm clean, I'm classy. I would never my God. You know, I'm gonna came in the Harajuku Bari? Like whatever the fuck. I don't know her little stances on that. But then she also said, you know something to the extent of and it's crazy that she even said this on air, but she said that you got to watch who you touch because she could get she could get people killed or something like that, and her money's long. She's not the same as these strippers of these reality girls, but a lot of those girls. On your team are reality girl. So it's kinda like in an attempt to dissuade person us also shaded everybody around you. So I just don't. I don't get that and also don't get how gay guys be going up for her when she has been. So like she said, you know, slurs and stuff even up on her recent project, calling people sissies as a replacement for the f word and things like that, and they still will like die by her. I don't understand that is almost like I've seen tweets and stuff where they were like, it's it's the Nikki hate train. I just can't. You know, I've listened to her music so long. I can't give it up now, but I think that people have this thing where when they ride with an artist so long, it's still hard for them to let go. And I, I don't. I don't understand that. I think golden to she needs to. She needs to be checked and it's like, how is it that your ex can come out and say that you stabbed him and that you know you're supporting Takashi six, nine. I read the report on what he actually did to that thirteen year old girl. Bill and it was pretty intense, you know, like like it wasn't just a little, oh, I was in the background and I got caught up in some shit like he was very actively participating in, you know, her being naked and given some other guy head in the room, and it's all recorded and he posted the video. It's just like, why not understand that? I don't understand that she, she always is like to see. She's like, Takashi is my baby, but Nikki does this thing where everybody that sides with her at some point has been her baby. She's at the same thing with quavo. She did the same thing with meek mill. She's insane thing with Arianna Guerande. She did the same thing with everybody who basically sucks the shit out of pass, and I love her. So, yeah, it's just a trend. I don't see how people are not seeing that now. So it's time. And I mean, it does. This is the first time I've been. She's been dating. I was like them being exposed. She has to fall off. It's not just going to be like a cold Turkey thing is you don't have to fall off, and I think we're seeing the beginning stages of the falling off and the quote I kept seeing a lot on Twitter was she's about Cardi was like she. She's like, she's pretty much got big off a sympathy and Paola or something like that. You'd see that they can't help pale is that Cardi is PR person. I'm confused. What does he is? When they you pay somebody to get you on the radio, right, right, right logs and stuff like that. But I mean if they've been doing that then, is that that bad, it doesn't matter more even if it is what it is, who cares? It's not like Nikki, I'm sure people have done that. The the whole, she's denied it and stuff, but it's like whatever she wants, but the whole thing. I mean, I'm not a big fan of drama, but this whole show is just so fucking stupid because it's like she asked for it like you have been running your mouth about this girl for a year right now that she saw you and did some shit. Now you want to go on the radio talking about the week to be classy supposed to act better and, oh my God. Somebody's gonna get killed like she's like, oh, everybody else. You guys love this until something really bad happens, but you're the one starting it actually the fuck up exactly end because even e- I think was interviewed by somebody. I forgot what show it was, but they were like, you know, oh, no, sorry, it wasn't even. It was Remmy. She was saying, you know. The fuck, fuck. Okay. So so what happened was Remmy was like, you know, everybody likes, you know, the hype and everybody's quoting all this shit from these songs and these radio interviews until somebody actually get shot or until somebody actually gets killed. Her ends up in the hospital. Now it's like, oh, stop the vowed, stop the violence was he was, but you weren't stopping talking shit. There have been literally interviews Riccardi said that when she came into the rap game, she was like, look, I'm not no battle rapper. I'm just trying to have followed armies. I really don't give a fuck, but then bodak yellow went number one. And that was her motivation to try and like do good. So she kept trying doing good. And now all of her other singles are like number one and stuff. And you know, Nikki started shading her, but she's, she's never been like a, I'm gonna shade you a mom using type shit. She said in the interview, she was like, yeah, I feel like if somebody writes bad about me and a song, I just wanna fight them and she just said that, like I'm gonna fuck about others. Raby I will just pull up. Even people went on Hennessy's page, her sister and was like, yo, like your sister's getting dragged out here. What the fuck are you gonna system? Hennessy? Yes, they're real name. I. I think so. Yes, Charlotte, which is why she goes by Bacardi, like goes by Cardi and car. Cardi's nickname is like when she goes home. Yeah. Oh, I thought her real name was Cardi will see nothing. Really an a haram is but calloused and if she wanted to go by Cardi but it was too many branding issue. Just throw it into Cardi b. calloused elements are interesting. Yes, love it. But yeah, they basically were on Hennessy's pays like this is getting dragged out here in the streets. You say? Silence she was. She was like, maybe I don't talk, I fight. So I mean, if I ever see her like she was just like, yeah. It was like, there's no point in me talking like if I just like run up basically. And there has been footage of her and her sister sitting on same reunions where her sister will take her shoe off and just charge and whoever through show through. Exactly exactly. They bought it. So it's like, I mean, I really don't understand why we're we're having this discussion when you've clearly antagonist multiple female rappers in the game, you try to stop their money. You tried to stop their shine. Your hater ho- like stop, stop. You are like. Seriously, you're, you're a hater falling apartment. She is dude, and she self destructing and she's denying it. And it's so funny because it's like you were in of music video would behind say you had songs with behind, say like the ultimate, like, I'm not going like if anyone to model your, you know top, like how to act basically in the media, like social media presence and stuff like that. You are at that tier where you're expecting not to be acted out on wiling like this. We shouldn't be comparing you two Cardi. You've been in the game too long, but you're you basically, you know, instead of taking that mentor ship role that she had an opportunity to take and mentoring her and like actually having people really be her son's now, she's like beef, oh, everybody. Makes sense. And it's pretty slick how she's trying to frame her not, you know, fighting back, you know about Sam McQueen and this data another. She was gonna take. She's she seems very, very, very manipulative. Mabul alone. What else? He Cardi b. alone. You better stand for your clean. What else you need some more shoes. Just holler at me shoes. No. I wanna see throwing. You'll BUSTER my. Listen, you don't wanna throw your back. Got you. Throw much. My really hurting. They really on the bottom. To save your money. Cardi b. throw. Tim is over for Nikki. So should I mean it is what it is. Also one thing before we hop into questions. I wanted to just say that peace be with my girl, Serena Williams. They are out here fucking with your girl as usual. I mean, I guess I get it cause. She's just been whooping ask for so long and they've been trying to. Oh, yeah. Oh iconic. Love it, legendary. But my thing is like they constantly and again, I will attest to this. I was at work and I'm on my business. I think I was like eating or something, and my coworker was growing on his phone and he's like, I'm sorry. But three to Williams just looks like a man. Oh no, this is a black dude, right? So I'm just sitting there and not like sometimes people speak just because they can't stay silent or they feel like they need to like Gruber there. Yeah, I think in that moment he met if thought that I was going to like respond or like maybe even agree with him, but I was just like. Sweared on our kept eating my food, like what the fuck and everybody. And I think there was like multiple co workers in the room, and they were just kinda like. We love. Yeah, because we, we love her so we can't relate like what you, it's like it was just weird. But yeah, like everybody says that she looks too masculine and she's not feminine enough, and she looked like a man and why? Why she's overly drug tested and they police what the fuck she wears. It's like bitch, I'm trying to do my job, which is what everyone of y'all niggers ask and y'all are out here giving me seventeen thousand dollar fines for shit that you would never if a man acted like this, you would not do it. So what's the issue and did you see that fucking racist cartoon that they drew of her? That was ridiculous. I was seen it. It was. It was like, I literally felt like, am I in the sixties? You know. I mean, basically, you know what? It reminded me of. It reminded me of that bear thing on Tom and Jerry like it never showed the head or whatever, but it would be like that mama bear that would like hot pants. Yeah, it reminded me a lot of there. I think it was a black woman. It was. Yeah, because even talk mammy. Right, right. Yeah. So it was a bear because it was Brown, none and under? No, I thought it was a bear because it never showed the head and it was always running really fast running period. I don't remember that either anyway, made a lot of time with your. I love that show, but you know, racial undertone. All right. Well, let's jump into this mail back episode. This is a follow up question from the guy who's friend was there from Australia, and he has friend was saying nigga. Oh, wow. What's happened to me? Okay. So he said, I think which would you say happened in man? Mine. Oh, yeah. You gotta say mate like, oh yeah, we're, he says, how? How did and hip hop I wanted to follow up on what happened since last week, and thank you guys for the advice I met up with my friend and told him. Quote, the other night was the twelfth. And last time I'm going to watch you get your SP. He took it pretty well, and I think he gets where I'm coming from and we won't be going out to any gigs for a while. I was thinking, maybe it was finally setting into how wacky was being. I also I also asked where he actually got the nibble thing from, and he just said, oh my God. What do you say? If you real- Nebe you'd know Olawale he said that he says, fake, man. This dude is making this story up, man. He just I've real. He might be a good writer though, because this is kind of seen corneas white rapper shit. I don't know. This is hard to believe. He said, Lord, I know he's just trying to fuck when we came so close to smack in that man. I feel like I can is right when he said he's infatuated with black culture. It's all infatuation with 'em. It's all infatuation without much respect our understanding, but thank you. Good advice. Cam. All right. Okay. Well, I'm eating new bullshit. I just feel like can you even hang out with somebody? I don't know. That's annoying. No, sitter finish that thought I was gonna say, like if that's how they respond after you have literally told them that you're frustrated with that is just like I would just be exhausted even like hanging around. You don't feel like the guy was serious. I think his answer was great, right? If he's a real nibble. Funny, just walk off. Right, right. All right. Let shit membership nibble, nibble, number shit, tack. Fucking so our next question is actually being pulled from Twitter, so Twitter, right. This question is from. Making up a name? Yep. Guide to Marcus. Okay. Marcus Marcus, say the situation. So I recently moved out of my home state and I was start. I'm starting to see this Christian girl. Oh, it's the first Mike. Mike. I'm an atheist, but we clicked really well. Decided to try it. There is the door. It is right behind you. Mass duke. Okay. She moved back to college for the year and the Trump I am decided to agree to long distance. I like her, but I don't know what to do. I'd like to hear Mike stakes sickly. Have you ever dated Christian and how did it work out. I guess. Interesting. I have. Okay. How did it work out? It didn't. Why didn't it work? Because I was asshole about her religion. I feel like that's me sometimes too, like I can't get with certain things like if guys Christian and he doesn't do like, oh, I don't smoke or I don't drink, but you trying to me. It's like that also doesn't make sense because that's one of the major things in the bible. Like I don't understand that you got to figure out Christian fake, ask Christian. Exactly. But I've dated a couple, the one that I dated for a longtime. That's what I was really young. So I was really pigheaded about, you know, religion, I don't care now shit as long as it's not like some overly Jellicoe Christian. I'm not dealing with that. That shit. I'm not going to entertain. You're like. Bible, verse backed homophobia, I'm not going to deal with. It's just it's just not worth it for me. Yeah, it's just a matter of you believe in God, fine. Cool. That doesn't bother me your business right, for sure. But don't ask me to come to church. I'm not going. That's a problem for you. Not even not even for Easter. I'm not going. Not Chris. Not Christmas. I went to what is it? Mass Catholics do. Yeah. I went one year for this one girl. I was dating midnight mass her in her mom, and I've never been before. I'd never been to a Catholic. It was this is all new for us yet. And I was curious. I've been the black churches all my life, not going anymore. Them shits like five hours long. Literally. I'm not sitting there for that money out of me for five hours and not only that, then they want you to eat lunch lunch with them and then drive to somebody else's house. That's halfway across town. And then you gotta take off your socks at the door. Yeah, you walk in black people house. You gotta take off your shoes socks too. Never heard issues. You got some weird people hanging out and they got plastic on the couch to sometimes he's still got Jerry girls. Seaport SO. Stigma routes, a one girl I dated to wait. You never finished fish with Catholic man. You say was something new? There was nothing there that was just she was crazy where you board of the. I mean, how is the experience at the mass? Yeah, it was interesting. 'cause I'd never seen anything like that before. And I mean, I was the only black person the entire rooms that was weird if they'll kind of cultish. Yeah, that, yeah. Is different white people's church by me. Catholic church. No specific. Yeah. I have a whole bunch of stuff. I mean, I'm very ignorant to that type of that particular sector of religion. I don't know much about cats all schism. I just think that they wear those crosses and there's like Hella candles at the front where those crossings, I mean, you know, the little. Yeah. Crawls. They wear the little rosaries on like their necks or like they have it in their hands. Sometimes I don't know what that's about. We'll be where they were coming through with these things that had like smoke coming out of them land royalties little. If I'm at bro, what's plan you today? Somebody turns Sophie's my, I feel like this is my ignorance. I don't know, wouldn't I descend candle? No smoke things. And then you know, fire. The fire. No, it's like this little like metal ball. It was on a chain kind of hand smoke, comes out of it. What does that for? I have no idea to rid the spirit, the bad spirits. Probably some something like that. You sage? No, that's not Catholic. Has black people shit. No. 'cause I dated girl who pulled that shit on me. Oh yes. Yes, she did. Once she started going religious, that's one that was going to segue into girl that tried to get religious while I was dating her who was very atheist before that. How inspired her did she. What you're Matic. I don't know. What does she go into your house trying to rid the demons or says, yes, stage take you shouldn't fight or back. No, I'd like to meet her. No, and she was cool. Does she not cool? She was terrible. She hated. Anyways to cool. No, she wasn't. Matter. Only one we've ever met. Ooh, Palin. Cat stripper that Tate high did. But no, I'm saying like as a crew as a crew, that's the only one I mean it in other when we knew because of work. So it's too technically religious to all she was. I remember she came out and went and got the little smudge on their forehead was asked Wednesday. It's one of the gun. I was like, I'll go, but I'm not putting that on my forte. Is that the one? So is Catholics are Catholics the one that put the water on the baby's okay? Yeah. Sprinkling. Sprinkle may mangoes. I might vice to him would be you need to think about. I mean, I guess he didn't really say if it's if it's like a serious relationship or if they're just hanging out but distance. Right. They can be serious though. Oh, this long distance. What differences a make your stupid stupid in general loan. You know him dating Kristen, chick distance, and he's, I mean, honestly, dating Christian chick long distance dating a Christian check across the room is really not the same. Good. On still, you're gonna have to lay hands on. Probably not going to put out in. That's what you have to be inform saying. You need to establish what you want out of a relationship and it's like you. I think he needs to understand that like her religion is going to permeate everything. Yeah. And you might try to think that you can just deal with it and ignore it, but I'm telling you gonna work at shit. It's gonna worse. He's eight is right. Just not going to work. I mean, unless he's open-minded like like, I'm not also trying to be Christian. What I'm saying? Like I could date a Christian girl because I'm a bit. She would have to deal with me. It wouldn't be me dealing with her right, like we have to deal with the fact that. So I'm going to say we're dealing with you delory. I was just let her know ahead of time like, look, this is how I am. Okay. And if you don't like it. Does she know that he's eight years. That's a really good. I don't think he's no, no, no. I think that they said that they, they knew they both know and they're cool with it. Then I think he's, he should go in and give it a shot because it, she's she, she's Christian and she's cool with him being atheists and she make things you could change them. Right. True. If your real mother fucking g. though you'll crack that code, you'll crack that code. You'll get you hit that if you breaker man. Break, dad, bringing to the dark side. See if you can break you gotta try to hit that. Dope, but yes. Christian girl into Satan. And again, this room the fucking g right camp, you a room fucking g you to Satan. You'll get that. I never done that. That's crazy. Shot wasn't they Marcus yet give it a shot. It's Virgin. Mary O'Brien is. Okay. So let us know how that goes. Y'all. I'm curious about dating either. I don't know. Yeah, follow it with that one coup. Our next question is from. Who low and let me get that. Put it in plead. Next question from. Trey, I'm sure touch the couple of them. Just the garment. Stop. Was hanging out with what was that Mary? Not Mary Magdalene. Yeah, the hor- to save her. Probably yeah, he saved her. I'll look them hands on. Show John three sixteen. Crank stopping. So our next question employee regardless. I hope. So you have to. Come up with a name, name wins. It's a guy name. Lo, I love it. Rashad. Hey, guys. I'm twenty three year old college student about to graduate this year during my high school and early college days, I suffered heavily from depression, especially and found it hard to go on social media like Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, etcetera, because it made me feel worse about myself. All my peers and friends are going out and living their best lives. Why can't I feel like that on top of that, there was a constant pressure I felt to put on this facade that I was doing okay and living my life to the fullest when in reality it was a constant struggle. So a few years ago, I deleted all social media accounts to focus on myself and take that pressure away. I still kept Twitter because it's anonymous and follow you guys on on. That's cute. And then he said that was four years ago. Now in my last year of school, I'm only now starting to realize that I may not have put myself out there. Not that always happens enough to make new friends and have a true college experience. I've quietly manage my and depression to the point where I often have been feeling great, but it. But it had me thinking, do I need social media in order to really put myself out there. Meet new people. I'm at my happiest now, but what? But it would be nice to make new friends and maybe even a few honeys consider considering. I really haven't been putting myself out there in that regard. Haven't used tender, anything like that since high school. So should I get back in the game in risk, putting myself in those things -iety fueled situations or my cool as I am now to be more social in the cla- in class slash the real world. Don't be social media. You can't. All social media. Be both. I don't think he needs it, but I think that it's good to have an. I think a lot of people on social media don't understand the concept of the fact that it is okay to lock out which really logging out, does it really mean long out, but just clicking out of the applic- doing something else like focusing on, you know, other types of things because I think that for me, even if I didn't use social media to post about my life and stuff, and everybody's trying to look good or like, you know, put the five percent like the best five percent of their lives out about themselves, which makes everybody else feels shooting turn for some reason. It's a good like networking tool like you can meet a lot of people through social media as well. And it's not like you look for that like it's not like you're using Instagram as Tinder or anything like that or to like, meet or get girls. I mean, you, you can do that, but I don't think you have to if you would rather go to like a social event and then just, you know, socialize there, but I think it's, you know, it's one of the first things that people ask like, hey, how can I find you or whatever. Even if you don't get on those sites a lot, I think it can help. So I wouldn't say that you need it, but I think that it's a good thing is you have at your disposal, things good to use the social media to to know about social events, not even to know about social events, but just like to keep in contact with people because that's really one of the main reasons. I haven't deleted my Facebook yet because there's so many people that I've like known from high school and stuff on there that if I ever needed to reach out to them and you know, they're always, you know, running these little algorithms to see who else you know and like somebody else from college pops up and stuff. I just find that it's helpful in that regard and you don't always have to take it to the extreme of like, you know, looking at somebody else and me like damn, like they're in LA or they're in Miami, are living your best lives because to be honest, everybody out here going on and it's really not like that. Like don't make yourself feel worse because you're looking at somebody else's like social profile. Yes. So funny man, like. I rarely get on Facebook, but I just comment on about just keeping it keeping touch with people in using it like his great for family. But I think about like friends, right? Or people down with the high school weight. Like I'm just like, even though you all social media with them, you're not gonna be meeting. If I didn't care enough to have your number your contact information before face blue, why would I care deleted now I was with you. You know you weren't that important for me to keep like folk which all doing I got to. I've been on Facebook for little over a year now. Yeah, yeah. Iran was so anti social media. Only reason I got on Twitter because and hip up, but so that was the only one I had for a long time. And then I must say, when I got on Facebook, it was cool to kind of see some old friend day, but it's not a situation where I'm like, oh, man, I wanna right. Meet up with, you know, right. It's just cool to see like, okay, no, let's see what you're doing. Okay. You see what I'm doing. Better than you. Guys on number, you know? Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, people that are really. People that are really cleaning. Take it down. It's over here, but yeah, people don't really cool with, like you say, can I have your number of something that I can get in contact with? It's not through Facebook. Like I'm not going to be direct message when I Gotcha number like bro, understand that. I don't either either or. Why are you deeming me. Number right. Yeah. So I, I think social media with him, like, man, you got issues you Dylan wit and social media. Depending on how you're able to cope with it isn't a good place to to to be with those issues that have because what it does at least for me is it gives me a peek into like the world. You always know the world was up in crazy. Yeah, but you only live like inside your little bubble of what you had day-to-day. But when with social media, you get to peek inside other people's world and see people's fucked up. Shoot people so-called good shit or whatever. Just how people just clash over any fucking thing. You know, and it's like people are like, don't understand that there's a difference of opinion, and you know not everybody's always going to be right, and and so for me, it's kind of always kind of good to kind of get a pulse of the world kind of see what's going on with so called regular people outside of the like the politicians and the, yeah, but, but now bro light novel. And that's that's probably not a good place to be because that should bring should've fuck you up, but he was trying to get huntings. Is that what he said? Yeah. Get a few huntings. Yeah, then stay off Twitter and shit like that, but get you a tender account, get you a Tinder account, if well, what timbers, tender tenders, tight. Get you a tender account. Get you up to ver-. What's the other one? Okay. Cupid account. Yeah, out work it out. I mean, he, you're not gonna. You might be right to a black planet is I don't think like farmers was a former. One of them. Dot com. All of them. People people should on date and get you some e Hani's, bro. UPI dangerous. Come a long way. My backing today. I still hate us back. We ask what, what. S. two. Mentioned would. The blue light grocery. Oh, good. Outfit you depression to get to Buddha, Hoke eaten. Suraj. John. Footnote. What are you doing today? How you're doing. Why he's still happy. This episode is the Mike still owner sponsored by seatgeek and event ticket marketplace and aggregate sports concert in theater tickets. Just download the app or go right to seek dot com and enter promo coat dead end. You use that code to get ten percent off your next purchase at the checkout. Also listen to this, the mice. Delong, radio public is a free easy to use app. When you listen to our show with radio, we received direct financial for every time you hear an episode experience our show today, radio public, clicking the link in this episode subscriptions and. So our next question is from Patrick. Guys, we're going to know women's. A man bag. Bars, lame. So I had this girl that I'm very close to over the have been very close to over the years. I'm twenty three and she's twenty. She she's twenty three and I'm twenty four since school. And after school we got close to the point where we were telling each other. I love you talking about marriage kids. Sex futures together excetera. Now when I try to get hurt to try this relationship thing out, she would turn me down then do it with some other guys, but still wanna sleep and be around her. On l. here. My God. Okay. When she left to go to another state to go live with her mom, we still stayed in touch and remained close. I even tried to get her to do long distance just something to see where we would go and got turned down again, but she but she did it with another van. And on top of that, she tells me that she thinks about marrying this man to and then also says that she doesn't know. She just wants to see where it goes. And when I asked her why she did long distance with him. Oh shit. So she did long distance with this guy? Not you. Okay. Wow. She said she wanted to try something different, but still telling me she loves me and would see herself being with me personally. I was very hurt when she said. Firstly, I was very hurt when she said when I let her know how serious I was about us, but I played it off and I hold it in the neck. Then he says, we're also getting. We also ended up getting into a very serious series argument. It started over a misunderstanding where I was just playing with her by telling her that I would walk out of her life for two hours when she married the guy, she got real angry and stop talking to me and took out, took me off all her social media. I tried reaching out to her all the next day and the day after she did not want to see me talk to me ever again and said, I made a big mistake opening up to me up to me and said, we, we chose to go our separate ways and was very rude and nasty about it. I was hurt confused a very disappointed by this. I shed tears behind admitted minutes, late ten, stop being bucking nice. I said, I shut to behind it and minutes later turned to anger because. We start crying. I. Nice. I should tears behind and minutes later turned into anger because when she did that, I didn't love her anymore. And I supported on her and. And very deep with my words. I, oh, wait a minute. Whoa, this way this is getting good. He said, I told her join her father and death. Oh, wow. Come on bro. You're a sucker fat shit. He's been a socket. Something that I want someone something that I never thought I would do or never get that mad. And I had been feeling this way a while before me and her gone to the big argument and are slowly patching things up on a friendship level seen us domestic abuser. Fuck outta here. Okay. He says a few weeks later, I finally spoke to her about the situation. She told me she didn't want to destroy that. We what we have in. If we did try to date scared her. And when we. What the hail contain. All right, when we good, and when we don't contact for a few days, I can tell she doesn't like what do that? I'm sorry, I'm trying to summarize the rest here. Blah. Blah, blah, wait, hold on this point because he sounds really all right. I really, I really love my friend to death and want to continue to be loyal to her, but I can't get over the fact that my emotions were played with an honestly, that's worse that somebody can do that to me because it will cause me hate the person where it's hurt to like a motherfucker. But I'm used to the fact that people will say things and they won't mean them when they're angry, but actions hurt just as bad. Another problem is that I suffer from overthinking, which makes me no shit, right mix things much worse than it really is and cost me to be depressed and have a lot of things at times. What should I do about this. What the fuck. Can he should have been left for ASA long? Thank you. God lease pro jute rope of fucking essay about a fucking girl that you've been trying to get with who's been sleeping around with everybody except you long distance as well and along this paragraph. So there was more my God, you grossing fucking balls, leave her alone. Punk while you're writing us, that was the most embarrassing letter. I think I've ever seen the man is already depressing. Y'all think you guys because you know what. Too depressed, even. Did any sounds like a dick? I am not. He's over here, harassing this girl. Letting her trick him quotes, air quotes, y'all canes she did. She say that she loves him back, but that doesn't mean that she's in love with him. Okay. So that's his fault, and, and he's like to stay in oil. How the fuck are you stay? Won't you. These. What was his name again? Lay name. Look, Succo girls look. Going with the president. Did you hear that we didn't do bro three. I heard it vice. What's the verdict? Nice. Mike, get out the doors behind you get out after you. After you do. I don't know the players say the prayer that he should say, Jesus, some balls there guys lost is going in a long time. I would like to practices for right now. Okay. So it should go something like dear God. Good. Out of the come to you today? Asking for guidance. That's a good start. Right? It is a great start. Love it. Got into all ready. Rest easy. The main thing. Okay. Help me out. I'm struggling. I. Need. A lame octa me. Remove the lame from lame as please Elaine Optima Jesus. Oh my God. To be part of. In in the prayer because this is we're putting together a prayer guy, lame Optima from behind. Okay. Mom took us right, but really, really be right cost. I think God is Cussing him. God is like, you'll get your. Face Cussing and Kirsten he is God is this some bullshit. I'm trying to finish the prayer. Interrupting fed Bill. All right. And I pray for healing, dear, Lord, dear God. I just wanted to ask you to help me to get over this because I clearly need to move on. Give me a sign, your Lord. Damn. Be sitting. Hat on right when she moved away was at the sign guess somebody else was he said, I don't want to date. You. When he wakes up every morning, what is dick on hard a no. By next him that's giving you a fucking song for some serious piece of advice for real for hard, dick. Somebody. No, this is for real. I think that if you ever are in any type of relationship, whatever you want to just describe that relationship as and it takes you to the point where you are throwing low blows to the point where you're trying to compare them to first of all anybody did or bringing up anything that's in their in their past or like they're, they're like dark things about them. It's clear that you hold so much resentment towards that that that is the point that you needed to go to basically almost like lift yourself up and make yourself feel better. And I think that that is toxic and something that you definitely need to understand that is not okay in a relationship. I think that there are certain things that whatever relationship are going through, you just said that words hurt, but then you turned around and tried to hurt her in the same way that she hurt you. You know. So with that being said is kinda like you have to understand and listen to her the first time if she doesn't want to be with you. Yes, she's saying that she loves you. She's not acting on that day. And, and he said the actions speak louder than words. So you have to love yourself and no, you know what? I'm saying that this is not. This ain't it. You know what I'm saying? Like she is not it, and it's okay for you to like, let her go, Mike. You're making a calling this guy because he's going to do the same type of shit to the next girl and the next girl and the next girl she didn't hurt him. He's hurting himself. He's letting the shit happen. The girl, which is that you said that words hurt, and now you're hurting this girl the way she hurt you. She didn't hurt him. What he needs to do is he might not need to date any motherfucking body. He needs to go get therapy because if he can turn that angry over a girl, that's told him twenty five times that I want to date. You write something up with him. It's got dick to do with her. Okay. That's what I'm saying. I see that the way you're sounding. I'm not saying you're doing purpose, right? But the way you're sounding is move on, but he might be onto the next chicken and do the same exact shit because he's clearly attached. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Well, what I meant to say what I meant to say was that he right, right. That is a low PU. Never speak to you again. Yeah, yeah. There's there's really nothing to rebuild if you bring up my father, my deceased father and try to tell me to go join him what the hell. I mean, just got mad and said, some fucked up shit. Same. Like that. But the fact is she, no, you a sucker. She plan you suck and that's it like because you have? No, because you're not acting like a man. You know she's gonna continue to play like a chump she playing or is he playing himself? What is she doing to play the vet that she could tell him all of this stuff and he's still lingering around talking about wanna be with you. She knows that he'll always be there and she can tell him what ever she wants and his as won't leave. But that's not her playing him playing himself. That is true. I could see if she was like if she'd fuck him every once in a while I like manipulate him into staying around say, I could see myself being with you. Actually, I forgot about that. Right? She stopped saying this shoot. She's definitely. I mean, if she continues after he told her die. That's. Come back and establish reestablish the relationship. No, bro. Yes. I'm Roma chew. Some definitely wrong with you, and that's not even a joke. We were laughing before, but you really need to get some help because you have you have tax issues and you clearly have anger issues. Everybody else. Why are you here. Like winning litters all small. Oh, man. I should've read the all cats. Do that. I don't know. Okay. That's another issue right there in alone now, you. Yeah, buffalo Bill type shit, right. I got. I got guy's name again. Marcus wasn't ever shy over shod is this girl still alive? What was. Oh, what's his name is Sean. Oh, crazy. Is this girl still alive? She still alive then her out the basement, please. She doesn't want you uncover and let her go. All right. And then go get out the basement. Yes. Call Dr. Paul, somebody whose name to black white girls in the basement. He regains. Giveaway. I knew some was wrong when a little pretty white girl ran into a black man on something is wrong here, the giveaway deals, Charleston agree giveaway. Favorite too. Yeah. Chained up in the fucking ground somewhere. Right in like a a, make three. At a black man. What this fuckers that girl gig and get yourself. Some help me alone. Stop it December. Doc, you stuff. Stop it, get some help. Cameron hill theory concern the series guessing concern now really sounds like he's a scary means booking out. The he said that long Email and he's saying in this, you sound like you need help to us at then sin. To the police. No, it's not. I'm. Oh, so he let before. This happened in July, and then he re message just in in like a bigger font in August. Wait a minute. Shit, tweet the same exact Email. Yep. Same one. So he's she'd been. So you you jumping crazy with us now you better watch amount got kids bre he? No, he looked like what the fuck anyway. You really can't wear the Kim. I'm. Oh, I know it professionals know union professional note. You write us big fun. Come back with fifty to seven hundred. We answered. One like one word perfecting. I want you to see this year. This is crazy actually scary what I forgot what your name was, but buffalo, Corey. Succasunna San will be another episode of snap. I love that shy. I forty eight yet, right or divorce. Dahbi a big break off really TV. I forty. 'cause he goes, we could narrate it. I want like yet. And we we day day. In the book is too. Giveaway giveaway while kids hydro white this book crazy. Thank you. For your question. My say, thank you. I thank you. Them helper stopping. Nobody. The house. The eight half what it is you lost Nuys, restore.

Twitter Mike Nikki Facebook Marcus Marcus Bill Ashby Cardi Epson Charles Becker Harajuku Bari Mike Salona Mike seatown YouTube Takashi John Sofi Ashby
Senegal's Stunning Gold Jewelry ... And The Controversial Women Who Wore It

NPR's World Story of the Day

04:57 min | 1 year ago

Senegal's Stunning Gold Jewelry ... And The Controversial Women Who Wore It

"For hundreds of years Goldsmith in Senegal been crafting some of the world's most intricate, jewelry, but outside of Senegal. There are tick tradition has largely gone unnoticed. Now, the Smithsonian's national museum of African art in Washington DC is showcasing the jewelry. Here's NPR's Narita Eisenman. I'm at the exhibit and I spot Marian. Ashby johnson. She's peering into a glass case containing an enormous necklace. Three pendants of elaborately layered gold. I'm still admiring my own piece of jewelry bring back so many memories, they begin in nineteen sixty three when Johnson joined her husband on a work trip to Senegal capital, two car walking the streets. She noticed all these hole in the wall workshops where artisans were crafting gold jewellery. Unlike anything she'd ever seen it was made from filigree thread of gold. That's what it is a gold wire that's impossibly thin, which they twist and layer into these dense yet astonishingly delicate lace like forms. The technique dates as far back as the twelfth century Senegal, but Johnson soon realized goldsmiths were melting down many of the older pieces to make modern designs. She decided to buy up as many as she could never realized I should do this now or it wouldn't be done at all some items. She couldn't afford she'd watch as exquisite designs were destroyed right in front of her some of them, I found copies of later. But in many cases, they were gone. I never found them. Again, still Johnson ultimately managed to amass more than two hundred and fifty pieces the best of which have formed the core of this Smithsonian exhibit. Amanda Maples the curator says she also wanted to tell the story of the women who've been wearing this jewelry for hundreds of years, including a class of powerful women whose influence still reverberates through Senegalese culture. These women known as sin Yarze, which around in the eighteenth and nineteenth century this in yards were mixed race descendants of European merchants and high status Senegalese Wollo. If women by the seventeen hundreds many of them had emerged as independent business women in their own, right? The typical senior might ships managed trade networks employ men, she can speak several different languages European and wolof maple says she'd be renowned for her patronage of musicians her glittering dinner parties and most of all her opulent fashions they were thought of as these these women that had the most voluminous cloth on sambas, really bright, huge gold jewellery. I mean, they had the biggest gold jewellery, and they would parade through town. So people can see how much wealth they had. And how successful they were. Ooh is a top fashion designer from Senegal the Smithsonian commissioned her to recreate a scene yards outfit Lucia Bosa Shapur fun defend a suit a head wrapped in a conical SugarLoaf shape a gallon of sumptuous fabric with huge puff sleeves. And of course, ill abuse it to the gold filigree necklaces earrings bangles toe rings and yet there's. An ugly side to the seniors story who Dita nura Moustapha is an anthropologist who studied this in yards influence in current Senegalese culture, this wealth and power and beauty and influence was gained through perhaps morally ambiguous methods Mustafa notes that the senors generally built their wealth through quasi marriages with European traders, many of whom made their money, either directly or indirectly through the transatlantic slave trade the senors themselves also owned slaves. But Mustafa says today's Senegalese are also mindful that these were African women who found a way to thrive at a time of European encroachment. They are recognized and held up as I cons of a negotiation of being able to bridge and balance many worlds Hilary Jones is a professor at Florida international university who's written a history of mixed race peoples in. Gaulle and she says for modern women in Senegal. You know, what they see are women who were incredibly successful created a kind of space for themselves against all odds and UC the fashion designer says, you can see this in yours influence, in the way modern Senegalese women, use fashion to protect dignity and self-assurance. It's an attitude so celebrated in Senegal it has a name Saul say, so just. The cell say means to dare says see to present yourself in your finest without fear. Narita Eisenman NPR news. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast.

Senegal Ashby johnson Narita Eisenman NPR Senegal Marian national museum of African art Comcast Washington Goldsmith Mustafa Saul Amanda Maples Dita nura Moustapha sin Yarze Lucia Bosa Shapur maple Florida international universi Gaulle Hilary Jones
#189: Hollywood Endings, Pt. 2 - Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

The Next Picture Show

1:02:06 hr | 1 year ago

#189: Hollywood Endings, Pt. 2 - Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

"Hello next picture show listeners. Here's a friendly reminder that if you enjoy the next picture show you'll really enjoy getting more next show by subscribing to our patriotic for the low monthly the price of three dollars which gets you weekly newsletter or five dollars which gets you are bonus episodes recent bonus episodes included fun discussions of midsummer and hobson shaw aw an upcoming episodes include some talk about succession to subscribe to our petri on please visit petri on dot com slash next picture show they keep the line between the past you believe someone out of the pass and enter take position committee but the not through with us welcome to the next picture show a movie of the week podcast to a classic film and the way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm keith phipps here again with scott via sand genevieve caskey tasha robinson's since currently revisiting her days as a t._v. Stop man by visiting an old movie ranch. We hope to see her again soon. Last episode we look back at nineteen sixty eight l._a. For the perspective vetiver nineteen seventy-five but it's cussing hal ashby film shampoo this episode we're looking at nineteen sixty nine hollywood as seen from the protective a twenty nineteen in a film made by someone who spent his childhood years in sixty l._a. The news quentin tarantino was making a movie at least partly about the murder of sharon tate and her companions on august eighth nineteen nineteen sixty nine a film set to be released near the fiftieth anniversary of the murders. No less inspired trepidation in some quarters. Was there a tasteful way to approach the story and if so was quinn tarantino the filmmaker to do it tarantino after awed spent the twenty first century making variations on violent revenge movies and his previous film was the especially grim the hateful eight nobody predicted the finished product would be so wistful and complex if not totally free of the over the top violence. It's one of tarintino signature touches. The film stars leonardo di caprio as rick dalton an aging star best known for his run on the western bounty law brad pitt as cliff booth brick stop manton valet and minder and margot robie tate rix neighbor. It's a film that feels a bit meandering until it becomes clear how it steams narratives rhyme with one another there to hearing into a funny but bittersweet look at a turning point in hollywood and american history. We'll talk it over after the break <music>. I'm rick dalton. It's my pleasure. Mr schwartz bet your son must start doc doubleclick booth last night. We bought a doll double feature shooting. I i love that stuff. You know the killing killing stomach book you still here. You can do anything you want. Talk actor tv cowboy line all acting people. Did they all right everyone. I've talked to scott about this a little bit but not genevieve gonna vive but it's just gonna throw. Would you take genevieve. This is film. I had a lot of fun with in the theater <hes> the word that kept coming to mind both during and after to describe. This movie was indulgent obviously on the part of tarantino. This is a subject matter that he you know has a strong connection to in you know as you said at the top there you know everyone was intrigued by what he would do with us but also like watching this movie kind of felt like an indulgence like it's such a rich experience being in in this world for two hours forty minutes you know and it does have all these little digression diversions and you know you're kind of zipping around under this movie and it feels like a treat while you're watching it. I have to admit i came away from it feeling a little empty like it didn't feel feel like it's stuck to the ribs so i'm curious to hear about this. You know complexity that you that you speak of because to me. It felt like i said just sort of indulgent a you know a an exciting place to to spend two hours and forty minutes but i didn't feel like it had super strong ideas that the left me pondering afterwards i would echo everything you said except there was nothing afterwards because it is film. That's <unk> at least given me something to react to. The bar becomes so low for hollywood movies during the summer that it's just so interesting to see a movie that is this rich at at least in terms of world building <hes> but then also has a lot to talk about on people are continuing to talk about this and i know there's that people get upset about the discourse some some of the places that it goes and it does ugly places. I don't think there's anyone on any part of the spectrum of liking or disliking this film that isn't annoyed by their counterparts to some some extent but i think there's been a lot to chew over but i think first and foremost i had the rare arash and similar to genevieve which is that it felt so great to spend time in this this world was a and it's a world that tarantino obviously loves and loves to dry out with as much detail as he can <hes> one of the things that he's really learn and to do as a filmmaker. This almost inglorious bastards is when he does it. Maybe the best is just to kind of. Let me as long as they need to be. Let's just like it's okay. It's it's okay. The this movie can have some sprawl. He's confident enough that he can hold your attention through sequences that are way longer than you'd get in another movie from visiting the ranch bench to all the stuff on the set of bounty law. These are things that he has the patience to kind of draw out and it's great and i think that you're to to get back to this idea of world building. I think term that gets thrown around a lot because it's a strategy that we've seen happen on television and film and things like marvel or game game of thrones where world's expand in more characters are added. Mythology is added also other stuff but here the it's just he just straight up build something that you you can just it was like a sandbox sandbox video game. It's like it feels like you're just engulfed in this thing. It's not about like collecting whatever stones you need to destroy the a universe. It's about really just figuring out what it is about this period that you want to express or or that you find interesting and then just evoking in a strongest possible wounded the tarintino at the peak of his powers <hes> throughout this movie. I agree with you. I think is interesting about that especially coming off our conversation of shampoo. Is you know for as much time as it spends. You know kind of exploring this world. It doesn't feel like a you know particularly unhurried or lackadaisical film. You know it's almost jittery you know to a certain extent the way i like. It does spend a lot of time in scenes but those scenes aren't ever stagnant. You know like there's a lot of just sort of movement and energy to this film. I feel from beginning to end in a way that i think maybe heightened some of the emotion that there is in this movie. I don't know that it's a super emotional film but it does kind of give you that excitement for throughout. I did not feel this movie's length. Remotely you know the way that i might right if it was a a more sort of relaxed you know lots of floating cameras and spending lots of time you know dwelling on this beautiful world. That's been created like it moves throughout this world constantly. Even if it's spending a lot of time in certain places i was thinking that it feels feels comfortable just like abandoning a character for a long time just like you know i'm gonna file. I'm gonna follow cliff as he goes to this ranch. Which has this experience and <hes> you know you're gonna follow him from the point where he picks up a hitchhiker and drives her to this place and then as he makes his way through when he talks to the current occupant he asked about how he's being treated and what's actually going on here and it's just like it's a very long sequence but it is purposeful this so much exactly perfect it is purposeful in that he is in each of these segments and this was true of inglorious bastards to their long but he is carefully building tension within them and carefully carefully building up the stakes favourite bid and the whole film is when rick dalton filming lancer which it seems like in the telling of the film. This is the last last time he really gets to be an actor. Because at this point at that point he's ready to move on to spaghetti westerns where his voice is going to be dubbed in what he does as an actor is not going to be as important but here <hes> it's such a masterclass and there's so much at stake for him is career than his. It's just basic. Dignity as artist is being <hes> is on the line and <hes> and he's kind of in the in really the sense from tarantino the kind of go by the way that you kind of lose it. He's drinking a lot. He's on a sharp as they used to be but he delivers it when it counted. It's in when he does. It's so exciting. I think so much to what i end up chewing over in the same house to do with rick dalton and has to do like what happens when you're very good at something but the industry you're then aged you out of it and what's up please. No no i mean i felt well. That's not what i was referring to but you know what maybe you is. What is your friend do without knowing it but you know what happens. When you know you are good at doing something and the industry does not support that anymore you get. I mean whether or not rick dalton is just a cheesy western. Western star is kind of open question until that c._n._n. Lancer <hes> as you pointed out and he realized this is really good and sharon. Tate is someone who was was always on the verge of becoming a big star never got a chance to become a big star and you can see her talents bean under served by the material. She's given in that wonderful scene where she goes to watch the wreck. That's the scene. I love abbie. That's pretty much up there too. You can tell the movies not good but she is good in it and what she's concerned about. Is that you know. She entertains the people because actually is you know at heart what she got into and do this for. I mean you know besides all the complications and all the <hes> you know all the aggravation hollywood all the ups and downs of stardom you know oh i think she and rick kind of both came to this from a very pure place and and they they wanted to act to he wanted to be a cowboy she wanted to be a movie star and <hes> you know it's an it's really about the moment win in very different ways. It's about the moment when they can't do that anymore. Her because of murder near him because <hes> <hes> the his time in hollywood has passed. I think such poignancy to that and there's such poignancy to the indian as well. I think the phrase i think a._s. Scott used in his review saying like like the sixties never ended and that sort of the question is asking not if like the sixty themselves never ended up at the moment <hes> that it captures and what if what was sweet about it was somehow drawn out in some ways. I think there's there's a lot of the strategy in this movie. Though is the more you take into it. At at the more bittersweet it is because i mean and we we know what happened with tate. Obviously it just filled with people who died young or met scandal or some combination of the two polanski and steve mcqueen queen james stacy the star lancer <hes> these are imprecisely these are people who did not have a lot of happiness in their future in many ways and i think to see them at this moment before all turned <hes> gives it an extra extra depth but they just i think it's actually a lot going on this movie and a lot of turnover <hes> <hes> it's just not necessarily all there on the surface yes but then you have to take into account what this movie does at the end. Which is it takes away that yeah tragedy. You know that that is hanging over this. You know this movie but we know better you know and i think that's that's kind of what gives the sort of sweetness. The doesn't quite feel right. Maybe i keep coming back to the fact that this movie is called once upon a time in hollywood and you know tarantino uses once upon a time to sort of signify is alternate histories because it was used an inglorious bastards to as i recall at the beginning but you know you get your fairy tale ending at the end and end. There's some fairy tale archetypes at play here. Obviously tate is the princess you know and there's some sort of prince and night characterization happening with rick and cliff cliff is well i think because it ends on a note of happily ever after and thereby removes moves not just the tragedy of the tate murders but you know everything that happened with roman polanski you know or like it kind of freezes an amber this moment in invites you to imagine that this world could like continue on in ricketts his happy ending to everyone so it just gets tied up in that way in and like i understand that by playing that against what we know of history it creates a sort of tension and causes you to dwell on what really happened in a bittersweet way. It just didn't do that for me. I came out of this movie fan like well. You know that was a happy ending. Everything turned out the way. It should have turned out on this excellent. Why incredibly moving especially the second time i saw this movie i like that was maybe i just need to see it a second time but what stood out for me about how the ending the very end is visually i sort of interpreted those gates up to sharon tate's place to be like the sort of the pearly gates so being. You know we do have that it is dry. Yeah i mean it's it's it feels like because again is is jesus saying like we do better that we do get this this fantasy that things happen differently differently in the sharon tate was able to live and have her child and continue on in her career but we know better and that is kind of a visual acknowledgement of that of you've heard voice coming through the intercom which is kind of a natural and sort of maybe celestial and then these gates opening up and it just it has it feels like such a kind of a heavenly heavenly image that were being left with of her in that situation i interpreted that as like the princess and the tower and inviting the heroic prince even though the dashing night is the one who did most of the heroine's the flame thrower that's true yeah. It's interesting. I mean i mean it's obviously him. It's a return to the well. If you wanna be hard on him mm four of 'em him doing the end of inglorious bastards again where it gets to just destroy all the terrible people who things <hes> but <hes> but i was is a little move by and i think i think the movie just earns it of throughout and particularly with its depiction of sharon tate which is pretty gutsy but ultimately lee so moving just to give her that time to have the experience that she has this theater and taking a picture and and <hes> you you know sitting there among the people and watching yourself on screen and hearing the laughter and just having you can see just what a blissful thing this is just. It's such a sweet thing for him to do you you know and you don't sweetness is not something that you get from tarantino all that often i mean this film i think we did of course parrot with shampoo but if you pair it with another film in his filmography would probably have to be jackie brown because it kind of has that kind of warmth to to it an affinity for its characters <hes> that's a little different than his affinity for characters and other other films of his certainly different from you know the likes hateful aid and and <hes> genuine chain and those types of films i wanted to play like i don't have a problem with the end of this movie like i do. I did like this movie on the problem with you. Leave but yeah. I mean i. I'm just kind of explaining what i came away. From this movie it feeling was not the bitter sweet feeling that you guys had it was more just sort of a a pleasantness but <hes> you know like i said. Maybe maybe i just need to see it again wrong i can i can enjoy it the way that i do wrong. I've definitely heard that reaction from others as well. I think the end is very divisive and <hes>. I think it's it's one thing i i've. I've really loved about this. Film is that so many people take away so many different things from it and no one's injury responding to quite the same way and i think that's what lots of over here we kind of interesting thing about this discussion though the ending is that we're talking about the very end of the film but we're not talking about what precedes it which is an unbelievably violent scenes in that at the end of a film that is notably not that not violent certainly not by turn tino standard so it is a really shocking <hes> in you know some have complained quite gratuitous climactic scene now and angry too it feels like there's actually a lot of anger and then the staging that almost almost premature as much anger in the stage in the end of inglorious bastards yeah i mean i maybe just because it was a tarantino film in like i. I don't know the violence didn't take me by surprise. I was bracing for it. You know i was like there's no way we get out of this movie about the tate murders without something grizzly happening you know and i'm kind kind of famously not as attuned to violence as others on this podcast and you know i may have watched some of that scene from behind my hands but i didn't. You really have a problem with it. Maybe as i'm like thinking about it and considering a little more you know i'm developing some problems with a- as i sit here 'cause i've kind of tuned out of a lot of the discourse of this movie just because i didn't want it to affect this discussion too much and also it's kind of exhausting but i i liked that kind of a lot like it was it was violence. This is fun. Which i know is a problem for for some people and sometimes it's a problem for me but it wasn't here because i think the execution of that scene there was a lot of humor in in it you know it was almost like kind of went up to a horror comedy of place which is generally i can process gore violence a little better in that context and also so there is a a really good dog involved so that always makes it makes it go down a little better. We'll be devil's advocate here because i think people people have picked up on and i want to be really clear here that i i'm not gonna defend the manson family here but but but i think you could potentially essentially pick up on a certain hostility toward the counter culture and towards hippies in this film even beyond this scene or maybe the scene being the apotheosis of that <hes> am i is that a crazy thought i mean or i mean. Did you feel like you can see these men as you you know of an older type in being lionized as being an old old type and also i'm not i'm not that's not even a judgment call. I mean i think that film has kind of a conservative notions that but that doesn't always make it a bad film it just it has notion so does this film have. Is it a legit thing to point out about this film that it feels hostile towards the counter-culture and towards hippies and seems to more favor you know the types of people that <hes> rick and cliff represent <hes> i mean you kind of have to read lead the manson family as stand ins for all of the counterculture and was manson and i don't think they are i'm thinking of like the playboy party you know like which which is just so wonderful in in decadent you know and feels like a really maybe not quite positive portrayal of the counterculture but if a more certainly not an antagonistic one you know the i'm just sweet hippie <hes> woman that sharon take a ride to the ep that he buys that cliff buys the funding cigarette from from seems like a perfectly <hes> wally vegas you gotta seat manson as as not manson is in something like an an invasive parasite on the counterculture you know taking taking advantage of what was going on and people like her character. Yeah i mean i know there's some maybe you can speak to this general because they didn't listen to the mall or maybe keith did too but i guess i guess <hes> karina longworth podcast on the manson family really got into a how horribly you know sort of abused and manipulated deleted the women were and whether and maybe there's some some thought to the film not being <hes> terribly sensitive to that aspect of the hippie women but you still dealing with people people who committed really vicious acts of murder sympathy can only go up to a point. I think yeah i mean especially with the movie this sprawling. If you wanna create empathy for every single character we meet and you know it's just gonna be <hes> slaw yin and i think i don't agree that the the manson characters the manson adjacent characters are a standard for all of the counterculture. I reject that premise. I do acknowledge that you know no. It is not exploring the manson cult in particularly deep way but i don't think that's what this movie is is is about the manson family an evil that was encroaching on what this movie is about which is hollywood in this moment and the people that populated it. It's about sharon tate. It's not about the manson earlier this year called <hes> charlie says drudgery mary harron written by gwen of your chair turner. Who did the team behind american psycho and it ends up kind of spinning its wheels but but i think it's an interesting film and it is <hes> told from the perspective of of a social worker played by merit weaver who has to council and essentially d program <hes> or attempt to on some of the women in the manson manson called and it gets into the complexity of of how deeply brainwash these people were without actually forgiving them in any way <hes> <hes>. I think that might be you know that's a that's a movie that has room for that discussion. I don't think this does <hes> yeah. I again a mostly playing devil's advocate here because i think i think both of your points are are good and i i think there are a lot of counter arguments to the notion that that tarantino's expressing hostility towards the counterculture culture toward towards hippies i mean there are plenty of <hes> minor characters in even major wish characters who kind of undermine that argument just before we move on i wanted eh paying off keith's recommendation and also offer another sort of a semi fictionalized take on the women of the manson family family and that's emma clients the girls which is a novel from 2016 believe <hes> and manson himself doesn't appear in it or not really a <hes> you know a manson analog that that appears in it it's very much about it's sort of like a psychological thriller that gets at the core of this cult that that enabled it so if that's what you're looking for the once upon a time didn't give you maybe check out the girls. If you have already yeah movie can't do do everything but <hes> but this does plenty right and also just things that shampoo does as well as we'll talk about when we made some connections after <music> break talked about the weather i'm used to you. I just want you to know i'm the one who cast you and i could not be motorized. That you're doing is thank you sam. I appreciate it. That's a good part is mentioned stacey seriously on not yet. No no guys green bay dynamite together well. It sounds exciting now. Rick about your hair. What about hair. I want to go with a different hairstyle. So what tending more cash you look like a hippy hippy more hills take sam. Sam got me covered open. All this this <hes> this junk has the audience knows me they don't now. It's time for connections when we bring these films together and talk about all the things they have in common. Well you know we we started off. You know obviously the big topic here is hollywood in los angeles and and depictions of both and also the depictions of how the engaged with the counterculture throughout the day actually more similar than different in that in that respect where they're both a lot of what's it's happening in the counter-culture is outside the bubble that the being characters live in but it's starting to peak in it's starting to to find its way and just just the way ricks asked to play the bad guy as like a did us hopper type sorta hippie biker typing which is something that he would not have been asked to do <hes> back on bounty law aw and shampoo you know they end up at the it's. It's hollywood party with money that they end up with but there's enough of of these are the new hepatitis invited to make it interesting or to dominated. I guess ultimately or may you know kinda see those people is not so much genuinely hippie genuine hippies as as hipsters who are putting on the dress of the day so that's that's my take on on on shampoo shampoo the hippie party or the you so you think it was kind of held you're right. I mean it's it's. It's a sprawling mansion. It's not like some sort of rented house in the valley or whatever that's a good point. I think i saw sam adams. Make this point on twitter too like this is loss angeles nineteen sixty-nine. It's not san francisco. The city has a different relationship with the counterculture. You know it is still an industry town and there is still as we briefly touched on shampoo. There is still a <hes>. You know a conservative element of play. There's a lot of money you know flying around in a way that is very sort of antithetical to a lot of what the counterculture was invested then you know so there is a bit of a uneasy relationship between the counterculture and what is really you know the foundation of hollywood's hollywood's so you know obviously there. There are hippies. There are people living that lifestyle in los angeles in these characters you encounter them in in various contexts text but it's a very hollywood version of the of the counterculture and i don't mean that in the way the movie portrays them i mean you know the the counter culture as it existed in hollywood would versus you know san francisco or any other place in the country like there. Is this tension there. That is wrapped up in what l._a. And hollywood specifically typically is most known for its compromised in a way that it might not be elsewhere either because of money and because because of hollywood that do you can't have as pure pure expression. I mean they're they're. They're just kinda. Take somebody like george can take take the whole free love idea and run with it for his own for his own indulgence but he could give fuck all about politics. There's no there's no recognition his part. I mean he doesn't care that he's going to this. Nixon party doesn't care that nixon is getting election election. This does that register with him at all. This is happening. I don't think if we ask them to differ between nixon and humphrey he wouldn't be able to tell you right yeah so so <hes> and i i should. I think that any any good counterculture person would be able to make that may be pretty clear about that and both films. It's sort of the counterculture divorce from any real sense of idealism find it interesting that in both films we get these you know sexy mansion parties at the time in hollywood is at the actual playboy mansion and the the one shampoo could just as easily be at the playboy mansion. You know so there's there's the sex and the drugs and the rock and roll but there's not you know the anti consumerism and political engagement that was a part of the counterculture and other parts of it you know and again. I'm not saying at that part that that aspect of the culture wasn't present in l._a. But it's not present in these movies version of l._a. Well one thing i will say that i really appreciated appreciated about. Both of these movies is how they approach history from kind of the side door from a different angle. You have rick dalton alton living on cielo drive which we know is going to be. If you know the manson story you know some stuff's going down and then and then you have this election eve and in the election and i think one of the strengths of shampoo is how ashby works that into the movie as more organically than i think i've ever seen seen a movie. Do i mean we're it's a really important part of the film and he's in the background but it's in the background in a way that would be that it makes complete sense wh wh- where they're at any particular time and then they're at this party yet. It's still kind of in the background and it's just it's almost like the sucker punch right <hes> as you were saying. It's it's like the ground around that's moving under georgia's feet but he doesn't realize it and <hes> ashby directs that way of just like he doesn't. He's not cognizant of any of the stuff that's going on but it it does ultimately become important to him in in to the country because things are about to take a turn and he's going to be left behind and other people are going to be left behind because the culture it's gonna change radically so <hes> i like that i like. I like that approach to history of not taking its straight on as tarantino has done in other is in inglorious bastards in jake chain of of battling the these huge <hes> evil forces directly <hes> he's he's just kind of exploring it from a different angle and it just it makes a big difference in the tone of the film and the subtlety of the film and you know. I think it's something that both films have in common that ktar strengths so yeah it. The election is always in the background in shampoo and you know the radios often on in there and what's put time in hollywood. The radio is always on everywhere everywhere. Advertising's everyone's listen to the same station. Listen to the same songs and hearing the same ads and i think it's such an curious and important element of that film. Almost you can almost say it's inspired by shampoo the way they're kind of just let's <hes> the media the omnipresent media roll around and behind all these characters but you really do get since there is a town it's it's a shared culture that everyone is a participant in that we should definitely kind of get into that sense of omnipresent medias you as as you put it in in both of these films and especially the music but before we get too far away from like how they engage with history i just also want to point out that they do do both turn on a single day in history an sort of pinpoint a single day as a turning point and it's it's a different day day in both cases were separated by a few months you know and once upon a time in hollywood is takes place over a longer period of time but it does build to this single date that funnily enough is the same date that we are recording this exactly fifty years after the sharon tate murders so little little background trivia for you there but we kind of did the sparing <hes> based on the idea of the shared sense of an era ending in these films and i think that it's interesting that they both kind of pinpoint a single historical event as sort of the crux of that turning point and they're very close in history but they are not the same turning point yeah it is kinda funny to watch these films that are both kind of end of the era movies please but they've they've they have pinpointed a different date at different event is being where that into actually is shampoo is operating on like a level of national change change the national election and once time at hollywood is very specific to you know something that shook hollywood in particular and and you know the culture of that town obviously it shook the whole country. <hes> had a specific connection to that town in a way that the i presidential election and shampoo take your pick of stuff that happened sixty nine th that shook the rest of the rest of the country entry. I've heard it's kind of important. Every baby boomer in the world has told me job i believe i believe it was the summer that ryan. Adams got his first real six string right. It's true real good stuff. That was a that was a really important stuff that have summer of sixty nine but speaking of yes. Let's let's transition <hes> from bryan adams to the music of both of these films which is such an important part. It's such a great part on both films i i. I was stunned watching shampoo again. Just how expensive such a soundtrack would be today. I mean we go to this <hes> hippy party in here to beatles songs from sergeant uppers and we here because they're playing the whole album like that. I think that that's something that you know. We don't think about from the perspective twenty nineteen but like they probably put on the whole album during that party you know and we just happened to those. What is the priciest thing we could play the rights wise <hes> and then you get that really awesome buffalo springfield song mr soul and and you've got the beach boys song sodas wise hinder acsi at the monkeys you just get i mean they're they're really big obvious six sounds of the sixties songs songs but i think you know they hadn't quite become south of the sixties cliches at this point either due to it feels. It feels fresher for some reason. I mean well. You never hear the you don't hear the dow often it now. You don't wanna be when you at wells. Do you ever hear sergeant pepper's in the mood. When you're warren beatty you can license the beatles songs bet you can just you just have to seduce. <hes> you know a beetle. I guess do something bad you know the the they all they can talk about their hair. Other beautiful all have beautiful o'hare but yeah. That's a key thing that ryan me so much. Did you ever catch up with the alleviate asa asa film cold water. No i need to see <hes>. It's really good. I think it's i think he gets up criterion channel now because it was unavailable forever but there's like it really builds to this party sequence that is just just loaded soundtrack wise and and they both both parties kind of have a similar feel though that one has more of a punk kind of end to end to the end of the world vibe to it than <hes> than the one in shampoo but any case i think it's i i think i think <hes> the soundtrack definitely is a big plus <hes> shampoo i think the point of contrast to those those are the foam when you think of the music of the sixties as you would think of all or most of the songs that you're mentioning and once upon a time in hollywood. It's not the obvious tracks i mean. There's you know paul revere and the raiders are all over this power power and the raiders is you know sort of like the commercial version of a cool six rock even then and hasn't as not all that fondly remember remember now but you know i think the pretty good argument that paul revere and the raiders said some really good songs i mean there's some good stuff but you also get. I mean doesn't that character. Actually argue that audu yeah and you get you get jose feliciano's version of california dreaming. You get buffy sainte marie his version of the circle game. I'm and you know he's a crate digger. He likes to go deep. Give you the deep cuts and antics. He got a lot of a lot of that as well but certainly tarantino being a the music curator but also kind of gives you a sense of not everything ends up played forever on oldies radio some stuff ephemeral camera. I mean some songs. Don't endure in that way and it's true of the films in it as well. I mean i mean all these movies that the go past all these marquees movies that were actually actually lisa nine hundred sixty nine and some of them have stuck around kind of like oh the sanction yeah early for that it's your intersection was on that marquee else but but <hes> roy juliet stands out is in in monroe also like you know three in the attic is heavily advertise film and and <hes> i mean you know the wrecking crew for that matter or what is the joe namath movie c._c._n. Right right see she seeing company c._c._n. Companies like who remembers this film and and you know i think there is a kind of a kind of gets at the the you know it's a town that produces these big expensive products that involve a lot of talent and a lot of promotion and a lot of hype in the turn into vapor after a while depending on what they they are. I think we can expect though films of any era to be like that of of of all the things that are playing right now that have big advertising what ties the campaigns and earned opening in two thousand theaters telling me that fifty years from now people aren't southern. We're talking about men in black international or no or you go smaller than that. It's like bright burn. That's interesting think family people sharing that you might get a little bit of a tiny cult reputation but but that'll be who knows i mean if someone makes makes one time in hollywood about now that that maybe that'll be like <hes> existed i i was grateful for that and grateful for a soundtrack that was so obvious because my god i mean how many movies set in this the era. They just play the same ten songs or something don't they. I think another connection that we can't be this discussion without noting even though i think we have you've talked around it a fair bit and both these discussions is the role of women in the female characters in these films because in both films we are dealing with for the most part women characters within their relationships to men and something some way or another and shampoo explicitly absolutely and in once upon a time in hollywood. I you know we definitely get more of a sense of sharon tate. You know as a person but it's she's. He's still kind of functioning as a symbol. There was a bit of a hubbub around roby's lines or lack thereof in this film when the when the film debuted at can tarantino kind of made some crappy comment and it turned into a bit of fuhrer but you know i think i think we're all in agreement. Aim at this film actually does pretty well by roby and by tate even if she doesn't have a whole lot of lines per se we do spend time time with that character and in that wonderful movie theater scene we do get a sense of her in her hopes and dreams and her need for validation and and you know maybe some less idealistic parts of her character to and i spoke in the first half about you know how i i liked how distinctive those three women in georgia's life are from each other and they're even though they all kind of have quote unquote the same relationship with him. They're all different and at the same time so yeah. I don't know i don't really know where i wanted to go with this connection but it just feels like something we can't discuss these two films together and not talk about wants more time in hollywood. He's as making choice. The choices of very bold choice to limit sharon sharon tate's dialogue to make almost like a meteor low or something like a silent vigor. <hes> who's <hes> presence in who's who's <hes> expressions are going to deliver. All the film wants to get from that character rather than counting the lines as as time magazine did much to the ridicule of the entire internet <hes> but i think the women in shampoo sort of grow on you a little bit. I've just like the movie itself. It really feels it just it's so patient and ability to get to know them and at grant won an oscar for the film i i think deservedly it's a wonderful character and <hes> yeah just it's it's an interesting movie because i think it does acknowledge a <hes> georgia's blind spots with regard to women without understanding of of women in that you know all they talk about his misgivings about men or something. I can't remember the actual linas and that's pretty much the only thing he seems to know about them. In the film itself doesn't seem to have a huge amount of insight but at least it has is the ability to to distinguish between the three as you say and give a lot over to the actors who all give such terrific performances i mean every single one lee grant and and goldie hawn and and julie christie and carrie fisher in the role that she has <hes> so <hes> yeah <hes> it also walks walks this really interesting tight rope of like showing the pressure. These women <hes> like are causing for him. You know or this pressure. They're putting on him but they're not portrayed is like nags or antagonistic to him. You know like the the reason they are upsetting to. Him is the through fault of his own. You know they're they're not being shrews or you know he's playing them. You know i guess maybe fully show a little bit is portrayed aide as humorously needy in a way that the the other two are not <hes> but it's i guess redeemed by the performance there in that case case you know the the the character has a you know you can tell that there's something unfulfilled in her life. She is seeking fulfillment and through through this relationship and i think that's brought across more in the performance than anything else but you know mrs robinson. That's in esque quality that character. I feel like fundamentally. All their crops are legitimate. Their complaints about georgia are completely completely justified ossified oh but does that define who they are their complaints. Maybe a little yeah you know but in the context of the movie and george just being a bit of a a doofus. I think it works and then you know on the flip side of it. Of course we have george is this emblem of male beauty that is has not faded. I mean he certainly you know still a very attractive man but for his glory around him has has faded you know and that is certainly early something we have in once upon a time as well <hes> both the prime male specimen and the faded glory. You know oh undercutting that to a certain extent so what what did you guys think about that. Element of these films brad pitt looks pretty good on that roof. People said oh my god. How long has it been. Since though i really just didn't wanna end this conversation has been since he got basically the the same reaction in thelma and louise white ninety one anyone so twenty seven twenty eight years at this point yeah yeah twenty two sorry that's he's not this is not the not the next show yeah so anyway he he doesn't look like somebody that age is supposed to look. That's not that's not or or maybe he looks exactly how someone that agents supposed to lock and we're all fallen short well. I think we've always but you know for as beautiful as cliff is obviously obviously a attractive to the women in this film as seen in the market quality character. You know i in him and him. I in her back like he. He is also kind of a loser. I'm thinking of his his trailer which you know his sad trailer and his sad macaroni dinner and you you know his his very good dog that is you know his only companion other other than rick you know and he does have a pretty sad existence that you. I don't really process when you look at him because he just is like yeah. Obviously he's gorgeous. Everything's everything's great for him. Visit south the hammer had for us because he seems okay with his existence. He seems fine and yeah. It's interest the cliff. Character is really interesting to me once upon a time in hollywood because he's he's like the cool guy 'nigma to rick dalton's like sort of blubbering blubbering comic relief. It's interesting the dynamic between those two but they are both men on the the downturn of their life if you know in in different ways but connected ways and there is a base sadness to both of them because of that that creates is an interesting tension with their their good looks and rick's case his money success whatever whatever you wanna call it you know because it's it just highlights. It is fleeting. You know maybe not if you're brad pitt. Maybe maybe it will never we'll never flee or warren beatty for that for that matter but you know in the in the context of these characters i think i supposed to believe that. This is the end of an era for them. They're still beautiful but they faded in other ways of course cliff lives behind ended a drive in which is also something else also going to go away as well so we he's living quite marginal existence. I live within twenty miles of two drive-ins vents here so i don't know what you're talking about. The dream live in paradise drive in is was a real driving so longer no longer there well speaking of things that have to end. I think i think the discussion is probably winding down but we have enjoyed talking about. Both these films so please awesome feedback. Currently shampoo is available on d._v._d. And blu ray via the criterion collection. It's currently streaming for free on crackle and ridable via the usual else digital rental sites. One time in hollywood is in theaters. Now we saw seventy millimeters button. I did at the music box here and <hes> that's the best way to there's only five theaters in the country planning the seventy millimeter thirty five at the logan here in chicago as well so you can kind of catch it thirty five and a lot of places to which article it's the way to see it. I i mean yeah if we'll be right back with your next violates head to catch each other up on films or film related items. We've we've seen in the interim. Since our last podcast we call it your next fisher show in the hopes it will put some interesting choices on your radar scott. What in the film world has been good for for you lately. Well i saw this movie <hes> back in true false and it's been through theaters but it just became available for purchase and for rental on streaming services and i think music fans. I absolutely have to check it out and that's the film amazing grace. This is a back in nineteen seventy two aretha the franklin decided to record a gospel album at the new temple missionary baptist church in los angeles and warner brothers sent a promising young filmmaker by the name of city pollick alec to capture the event on film <hes> pollock had done. It had done some stuff before he did he had done <hes> they should horse. Don't they so he had a tiny little bit of experience but but he was undone by a huge rookie mistake which is he failed to mark the synchronization of image and sound with clapperboard resulting in twenty hours of unusable zabol footage and a total abandonment of the project <hes> it was something that was taken up later by a producer named allan elliott <hes> who had who revived it synchronized it it but then it got hung up by aretha franklin herself and various legal issues and likeness lightness issues etc elliott finally showed the film to her state had got the approval and now we have this incredible piece of history <hes> where <hes> you know franklin who who entered into this church as already already in rb icon but the way this whole thing plays out is what really is striking to you is is both her presence but also her humility in this <music> sort of house of worship in the songs that she's singing in her engagement with these songs that meant so much to her throughout her life now all those feelings are are both <hes> deeply felt throughout the film certainly by the congregation and by us as viewers but there's also kind of monica this bit of professionalism. I guess on aretha park. I mean she you really get a strong sense of her as an artist somebody who's who's aware that this is going to be that this is going to be recorded that is ah total probe to on top of everything so she's feeling the songs but she's also you know nailing it and being being there for the moment and getting down good tracks <hes> so lots of great stuff wonderful. The music is wonderful. This was the top selling gospel album of all time i think it remains so and and <hes> and you can see some fun things like <hes> like <hes> mick jagger showing up on night to just kinda want around the back <hes> so a lot of interesting things there and some string context with regard to watson the riots and that sort of thing too so <hes> it's a treat you know and we'll i think anybody who watches it will be a you know if they weren't already astonished by retha franklin's skills as a singer and performer they will be wild by this so amazing grace cool well in the lead up to release once upon a time in hollywood the sony movie channel which i don't know how many people get or not but they do some good stuff on there other programs some films <hes> chosen by tarantino <hes> as influences or just sort of carry on sort of a similar vibe to once upon time in hollywood and he talked about them in interview segments with <hes> with kim morgan the film journalists and one of them was a film. I had not seen before which i've really enjoyed called model shop up by jacques demy the great <hes> french filmmaker of my favorite film of all time the umbrella a share <hes> an which we covered on the show and and it is a partner for him where it's it's him doing a story set in sixty s. l. a. and it kind of we talked about before how when a director from another country comes to america you kind of get sort of a different perspective on american. It's very much that the things that catch his eye about los angeles are not necessarily of things that other people would latch onto the main character lives through this beachside appointment next to an oil derrick and you can see an oil derrick <hes> in on one much time in hollywood as well. I don't know if that's addressed point of inspiration but maybe <hes> the film stars gary lockwood of two thousand one a space odyssey fame as <music> someone with architecture architecture degree living in los angeles who doesn't really know what to do with his life. He's kind of drifting around. He's lost his job abuse money. He spent one money. He has a very fancy car. That's that that the report people are going to come for and he has a tortured relationship with his parents but but <hes> that we play via telephone that evolved him telling him he's supposed to call you know come back and report for the draft and and over the course of one day he kind of falls for a mysterious woman for another country named lola played by nokia me <hes> <hes> which is your i q to figure out that is actually connected to an earlier film immediate called lola which is expected its own way to umbrella shipboard can be of angels if you don't know any of that but it's still kind of interesting <hes> just a french woman who's also in los angeles kind of hang out embark on a relationship and really not a lot happens but to paraphrase the first thing that that tarantino put the interview. It's like in the interview. Segment is like you get to the end of the movie and you realize a lot has happened. He's kinda come to some very big decisions about his life. It kinda has that sort of like day in the life. Let's just follows. Personnel us angeles quality that you'll find it. Once upon time in hollywood is well and <hes> i i found sounded quite enjoyable to check out and a really interesting time capsule and a in addition to being curious departure from from from great director. <hes> gentlemen can help you. If you see anything good lately yes. I've seen something very good. I saw lulu wings the farewell which is a feature adaptation of a story that weighing for shared word on a i believe two thousand sixteen episode of this american life <hes> about a chinese families elaborate attempt to keep their matriarch from learning about her own terminal cancer diagnosis. I feel like this was a pretty well remembered episode of this american life so the premise me sound familiar to you but the film which wing wrote and directed is very different french and very worthwhile experience it starts aquafina recently of crazy rich asians fame in a very different role as billy <hes> the thirty something daughter of chinese parents parents who moved to america when she was a young child and who maintains a close relationship with her nine aka her paternal grandmother who still lives in china billions resistant and to the families intention to keep nine i in the dark about her cancer diagnosis even though everyone assures her this is the norm chinese culture and so billy goes to china alongside the rest of her family for rush wedding for her cousin that nine i believe is legit that everyone else knows is a last chance to spend time with her. It's really hooky. Primus thomas but the resulting story is a really thoughtful and nuance comedic family drama. That's carried by fantastic performances in some really interesting film making choices <hes> <hes> a very talky film one that jumps freely between subtitled mandarin and english up. There's no sense that you're watching filmed play here. <hes> weighing frames frame these conversations and very interesting and evocative ways in establish such a distinctive sense of place that really underscores sort of culture sure clash elements that are going on in the story despite the fatalistic premise is frequently a very joyful movie. Thanks in large part to the actress who plays nine. I whose whose name i am certainly going to butcher here but is zhao shoes then i think she is an utter delight <hes> but there's also of course a lot of sorrow mixed as well and and the way that weighing in her actors are able to strike that balance is really impressive and definitely worth seeking out came out in mid july i had some trouble tracking down here suburban michigan but <hes> eventually popped up on the art house screen and my local multiplex so hopefully you can still find it playing where you are at as well because i would definitely recommend and seeing it in a theater. If you can <hes> the farewell have either. Have you seen this white house ah with you. It's terrific. I think it's going to turn up a lot of <hes> top ten list at the end of the year and we'll be we talked about this movie. <hes> some some more. I loved just the tone of it. I loved. I loved to hell aquafina. Scherzer was so connected both connected to this heritage heritage but also distance from it like she'd spent time <hes> there but but you know her memories that noise match up with what the with the place you actually encountered. <hes> bahasa loves the sweetness of her relationship to her grandmother. It's just as genuine uncomplicated <hes> familial affection and in the sense of what would be lost when this woman was gone was really strong throughout the movie i i it's it's it's first-rate. I'm looking forward to seeing it again at team more from from the director it's top of my list of things to see that i have not seen so i'll soon in fact my my wife and my eleven year old daughter of seeing it but not me awesome and it's also yeah that's what it is definitely a a as. I recommend it to somebody. Else is definitely you can take you can take your mom too. It's it's a g. I saw with my mom yeah yeah. She loves it. He's got a clean. That's true that's true well. That's it for this edition of the experts show our next pairing will come out on the twenty seventh and september third scott. What's coming up next steven bognar. Julia roberts it's documents american factory was the best film i saw at true false earlier this year and it was picked up by netflix after sundance where it won a prize for its direction. The film don't takes us inside the food factory in dayton ohio to witness a fascinating culture clash. Fuyang was a chinese company that specializes in windshield glass. It's it's taken over a shudder g._m. Plant a lot of former g. m. workers are hired for these new jobs but they soon learned that china and the united states have very different philosophies when when it comes to work in issues are raised about salaries workplace safety and unionization the tension between the company and its employees called the mine another classic labor documentary barbara koppel's harlan county u._s._a. Coppell's film follows the conflict between kentucky coal miners and their bosses. The violence breaks out as the strike drags on for more than a year. We'll we'll talk about what these two films say about the state of labor relations in the twentieth and twenty first century in the meantime. We'd love to hear your feedback on this week's discussion of shampoo once upon a time in hollywood and anything else film related not to talk about include your thoughts on feature episodes the show you can leave a short voicemail at seven seven three two three four nine seven three brasileiro or email us comments an extra show dot net finally before closing at this week's episode work refined everyone else these days genevieve. I am the deputy wti t._v. Editor at volterra dot com and you can find me on twitter sometimes occasionally tweeting at genevieve kofsky scott. You don't tweet that much smart smarter than our tweeter however you'd find me into it at scott underscore tobias where i mostly yell at politicians and you can ah by work at the new york times washington post n._p._r. Vulture lots of vulture television this these days with succession and hunter <hes> good it shows and <hes> <hes> and i'm also the chief of oscilloscopes musings blog <hes> we have some really good stuff up there now and <hes> something to come that i think is going to really really exciting but i can't really say anything about <hes> yeah. How about that <hes> keith. Oh i'm a freelance writer editor. You can find me on twitter k v three thousand you can find my in writing it oh vulture and slate and the verge polygon and decider and t._v. guide and i'll just all kinds of places <music> outbreak magazine t._v. guide to try to eat right about t._v. There i wrote about i just read about succession. <hes> which i will such a bonus episode third for for our patriotic subscribers. <hes> sounds like a worthwhile thing to invest in. Yeah sure tasha robinson who's not with this week is the film and t._v. Editor at the verge and find her twitter at tasha robinson. You can stay updated on the next picture show by visiting next pitcher show dot net via twitter at an expert pod and via facebook at facebook dot com on slash next picture show you also contribute to our pitron and get put its content at patriotair dot com slash next picture show if you haven't subscribed to the show on apple podcast chest already. Please consider it apple. Podcast descriptions are an important part of getting podcasts more prominent and more or listeners and while you're there we appreciate every radian review. Every thumbs up helps find new listeners to keep the show going. Thanks to dan the snake. Jake's assistance producing the podcast that extra show is probably part of the film's budding family of podcast keys to uh. Hey nah <music> <music>.

hollywood sharon sharon tate quentin tarantino rick dalton Rick manson tarantino murder brad pitt sam adams hal ashby los angeles georgia rick kind warren beatty scott genevieve quinn tarantino keith phipps cliff
Je dompte la peur

Ask Gwladys

17:43 min | 4 months ago

Je dompte la peur

"Hilo Javer new shares glitz. Those podcast. DISASTER HAS A. Particular. The thing. Luke Kuhn key. Disastrous for nearly are. Good. To. On. Go has more. It would soon Switzer Erica. Fall Solely. New. SIP! Shit let's. Talk. Say initial. Put guest as. The. Don't to. Repair? Sit Up for this. But Desk. Holt. Leads welcome gone. She will give you. Shushing Youtube. He'll lead the Ashby Ashby. It. Should be. On The. Patio to. To the PODCAST. Ballet. Shoes? To. FOOTLOOSE! Process down the. Issue lay above this thin. Yvonne! VISIST SWEET! Suits usually. Don't insane. Local Jeff thanks. To more. Regime. Critics. Was Extremely. Among. The All. Just decisions Leper Kilo. Vision with. Activity Uncle Sam boss. Is, famous? Digital. Versus Saltalamacchia fish to. Buffalo! The. Place for two. Days. Shallow. Before. Paul Bala to. We'll have I love. SOUP TURKEY BY DOT COM NEW YORK. WHO Chuma food. Bar! To See mom what? Boozy next Shaw. City Gorgeous com. Sorts! Exit do was sold for shoes. Louis C. You. The first exit really. Who? Is. This. Will. Jiri. Shoes. What it is back. Unfit Award mall. Buzzer Sundermann. Could Usual Reputation Chom. Best cus-. A. Did the salsa. Back their. Patsy Kline all. On that it doesn't avoid Ki. He knew poison they bought. CRAISSATI. Lousy complete. TWOS! On? The Bell Uh. To. A. Love Love Love Wa- flamboyant Shown. On the steelers found me. Say Fails. Found Y ya. Some. said the. Super. Just V. Board get over into. Zoo competing. For the. Love and A. Contiguous. To. Fit. The. A. BIKER! Protests that upset Asia likely. SORTA classes. Massana gets in. A. ME. The. Minimal sure. And Walk. A K.. Away says. Odor don't on. Completed Sit. Along small? Acres, Fan. The Extreme Aviv missing with. Physically. Until this bill. Shannon. Less packages visit with. as you really. The ZIP right on schedule is. Awesome. The. Police to some physically Benjamin. Really. Bond Lawn. Injury A. Vision suppose the Kiss Kiss. Kiss demand on wall fish. To the bile one's. Self Long. What else? Could depose on unsympathetic, down. Of One fifth only Google will save. talker. Sean can. Do. Do. Do. Without. Shake. Too excessively. Rebel, postage. Encompasses the. Only go! Full cannot Ashi prison. found. She pres juice boss. Should Christmas below the. Suggest. A. Fascinating to sit. The word ambitious possible. Plea. Takes. This series. Punched Jerusalem experiment. Zero May. Also. Soon could ask her something. To defend. The. Nation Soon? sooners. Stronger Vive on this show momentum. Plan Sunday Russia. T says you. Make. Walk. On the. Poll show by CLEA yield. Regionally Bariatric Mom bonobos. Exit. Exit. COUSY MEMPHIS, which is. expense to in. But. That simply to see. that. Sergio. Is. A! Normal sample fielder. Food! to by Johnson morning. While! Processing Mile. Official markets on also don't nip. The It consists. To? Our Hornbeck. The Screw to at. Documents Digital Age. Muscle? Down just. Jaw. Fit To? Fly! OF TO TEN On the initial apart. Is. Experience. She. Only. Are Very looser bolic's. General can do. Corporate. Foods at. This suggestion. On the Roy exclusive cross explain this onslaught is for. December Compete. adopters. Tash Ma. One should. Pursue, Patterson I view these picky. Theft Blah. Souvenirs are on song. From? Japan As. Said Venkat. Until Bay and yeah they want. The. Shimon crucial. With. The several cassettes yet these attacked. Class? Schwa-. saw a did they do to? Usual. If Japan. Joie Clayton Kershaw had been. Depletes? They loved, don't pull on. Says some vegetables on Christiane? Supervision that is not. The pushy digitalize yet, I'll. By On. You could put test. All. Sit By. Search for. Usual pleasure. Don't. Rest in suggestion. Or should. Just put, gas I'm from. New just one. Bell! Equal. To Build. A Zine. Please essentials visual failures. is its. Muscle adding level. Jim Soldier from Crochet. and. Recover. privy to. System of. Fit the! she? Sit back but Suzano abuse. The what is live? A. Say. Over something. them the that. To. You. By. Keith Home Blur. Behind Storm Exit. The sort I suggest. Dust via the dust beyond. The Pacific district. suggests. This could. An Official fast. To take the shoes dishonest. Police. SEE THAT I. Do his job in. The. CPA, Komo, down. Or Gal? were. You. Elect soldiers. Said! It was. Expandable. Paul. Stand up for your years. Some peak they're here. Hookah, she. A. Bit Binary. Papa View. Of the. Vision. Personal. Tennis. Don't sit out behold. Nicholas Cage. Let us just. Down the Tom. Then you! Nothing. Mix! CITIC Legis just return about. That our policy? To supplement with Sokaia the all captured. Be Lamberto the fellow pony beverage that. They devote. Assir. So, we'll certain Benjamin, the news dependable blog posts ARADO. No, we'll continue else beyond. Much love.

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Ottessa Moshfegh

Monocle 24: The Big Interview

28:15 min | 1 year ago

Ottessa Moshfegh

"What's the secret to a happy life for the answer? Join us in Madrid from Thursday, the twenty seventh to Saturday, the twenty ninth of June for molecules fifth annual quality of life conference. Head to conference dot monocle dot com for all the details and to buy your ticket, monocle, keeping an eye and here on the world. My experience of being a human being has definitely felt a lot like confinement confinement to a family. A family system confinement to identity in terms of the history of my family, what I look like as well as confinement as day mind confined to body. I have never felt like my mind fits and to my brain when I'm using my mind and vodka to connect to something more spiritual. My brain doesn't seem very important. All of a sudden. So I think that there is something that feels like imprisonment in mortality, and physicality. Testimony affects writing is whip smart and bleakly funny to characters unapologetic alienated and almost always, intoxicated. She grew up in Newton, Massachusetts. The daughter of classical musician, parents have other Croatian father Iranian. She studied music a child then shift attention to fiction attest, graduated from college in two thousand and two and after spending time in both China new went onto attend the MSA program at Brown. She started which short stories, many of which appeared in the Paris review. The Newell, Granta and others Hess story, bettering myself when the Paris reviews, Pinson prize for fiction in two thousand and thirteen have fast Longa piece of fiction. The historical Nevada mclucas was published in two thousand and fourteen has second novel. I lean one the pen Hemingway would and was shortlisted for both the man Booker prize and the national book Critics Circle award in two. Thousand seventeen she published homesick for another world, a collection of short stories and third novel, my year of rest and relaxation hit shelves last year. I'm Clary Ashby, and Tessema joined me on the big into b. Tesla most vex. Thank you so much for joining me in the studio here. Midori house and welcome to the big into I thought we'd stop talking about your most recent novel Meyer, rest in Munich, sation, which flows young women in New York who decides to sleep for year and emerge reborn and a better person. I wondered if you could tell me a little bit about how this idea came to you. It's sort of dawned on me that this was the book. I was writing. Once I had just been sketching out the exposition of the book about this character with her daily habits, which amounted to going downstairs from her apartment to abo- data, getting coffee, and then coming back to parliament. There was a sense of this woman is up to something in that she's up to trying to do nothing and then this project of sleeping for your sort of. Born out of the character herself. I kind of figured that this is something that she might take on. Okay. How do you know when an idea is worth pursuing? I don't know how how you work with. You have multiple ideas. ID's novels in your head at one time. Or whether you you'll very much focused on one until you get to the end of that. Then another it's always a different sometimes I really vizier. Oh, in on one project at a time and, and that's what happened with my year of rest and relaxation. I actually wrote probably the first hundred pages and then didn't touch the book for a year. And then when I went back to it, I wrote it completely wrong. So a lot of the a lot of the writing of this book was in erasure and rewriting. And I didn't do anything else while I was working on that maybe maybe it worked on some short stories along the way in between. But I was really obsessed and focused with this. Novel. Sometimes I can do more than one thing at a time. But I prefer not to, and the character, herself who is this nameless, Nouri narrator? Why did you won't spend time with her? Well, I think a of spend time with her partially because as the author her predicament, her sleep predicament allowed a lot of narrative room in this sort of paradoxical way while she isn't doing anything. The structure of the book was such that almost anything, seemed like it could happen, especially when she starts taking this one particular sleeping medication that ended up being the sort of magic ticket to her experiment, and transformation. So there is just a lot of room. There's a lot of imaginative room when a character isn't inert. In a sense, you are forced to consider her environment in an exaggerated way as well as her past. So the character became really fully formed when I imagined her past, and childhood her parents, which she went through. She's an orphan. She was orphaned, while she was in college, which was something I if I consider, you know, had that happened to me, my God college being in your early twenties already with perfectly, healthy and able, parents is difficult enough but to feel stranded like that would really impact a world view. I was curious about her air, again's I was curious about her own creativity and her relationships with really her one and only friend Riva who ends up playing a large role in her story. I wanted to ask a little bit about so characters often seem to appear in confinement. And you'll writing this narrator who badly leaves her -partment and then in, I lean which she published in two thousand and fifteen you have this sort of glum, Felli, glum, young woman who works in juvenile prison. I think you even have a short story could the locked room. What is it that attracts you to that theme? I guess is it the challenge of it? Well, I should also say that my first book ever, which was a novella called Magoo also involves a man walked I in, in the hold of ship as sales around the world. And then in a prison cell and Salem Massachusetts in the US. So, yeah, I am definitely attracted to characters and confinement. Why? I mean intellectually, I could say that it makes sense. It's if I'm writing about the human condition, which is essentially organisms trapped in time and space with consciousness. That is separated from other consciousnesses. I don't know if I'm going to put this in the right way. My experience of being a human being has definitely felt a lot like confinement confinement to a family. A family system confinement to identity in terms of the history of my family, what I look like the terms of my education, and abroad, est sense. How I'm being seen what opportunities are available? As well as confinement as a mind confined to a body. I have never felt like my mind fits into my brain that conceit seems really arbitrary. I mean, I know that I have a brain and I know that functions and I can tell that it's functioning. But when I'm using my mind in my imagination, or using my mind and body to connect to something more spiritual. My brain doesn't seem very important. All of a sudden, and I think about the ancient Egyptians and they thought that the sole was located in the heart. I don't know what they thought about the brain. But that always struck me that, like, we haven't always thought that our thoughts and feelings are located in the brain, and I don't know if we really know anything about it. So I think that there is some. Thing that feels like imprisonment in mortality, and physicality, I mean, I think that's part of the definition of physicality is that it is physical. It isn't not physical, therefore their boundaries around it. And it feels like prison. He fulling on speaking more about the mind. I don't know whether it's a result of that confinement that a number of your characters have quite addictive mines. We've got I lean who is Felli sort of obsessed with how she looks and also with money and she's trying to escape her somewhat. Gin soaked Fafa the narrator in my year, rest of rest, and relaxation, who is addicted to paps addicted to, but she takes a lot of pills. So I wondered if you could just tell me a little bit about spending time with these quite fragile characters whether that in itself is challenging. Well, I guess I'll get to that second, but first about addictive personality. I'm not sure that I ascribed to that whole thing I know that there are people who are more prone to becoming addicted to things than than there are certain substances that are more addictive than others. But addiction is something that results from an attempt to cope with either an internal or external source of suffering, and to be addicted to something isn't always necessarily bad. When we fall in love with someone that's supposed to be a good thing. But the way that I would think about is what we just becoming addicted because suddenly this new thing or person is giving us solace or a solution to the misery. We felt when we were alone. I mean not to poop who love love is awesome. But I would just like there's we can be addicted to everything. And I think because it diction is so societas with things that are destructive and self destructive. Both kinda gets a bad rap. So I try not to think of it. As like, oh, the problem is the addiction. No, the addiction is a way of coping with what in this fictional world is causing my character to feel pressure? And then oftentimes as, as characters go in narrative fiction, the very thing that you want is the thing, that's going to destroy you. So I mean it doesn't have to be a substance or a person, but a motivation. The second part of your question, obviously, all of this is just like coming out of my own mind. So when I see a character, and she's in a situation, I'm going to my first thought is how was she going to deal with it? And if you don't deal with it when you're just nothing like you could deal with it by denying it or you can deal with it by trying to Migliorato it, but people really don't know how to fix things. So they just try to cope. So I know that I do that it's not always effective, and I think where it gets interesting and fiction is, when that, like I was saying, like, when you're trying to cope with something, and that very coping things thing that fucks you up more than the thing that you were trying to cope with that gets interesting. And then sometimes magical thing happens that you learn. And I think part of why I'm a stick with my characters at the I feel like they're gonna teach me something because they're. Going to go through something I couldn't go through, and therefore learn what I couldn't get to without them. I will say on a slightly lighter note want to talk a little bit about Huma, because among other things universe is very funny, and I wondered whether whether you set out to rights of funny funny book, I don't know if I've said out to write a funny book, but it ended up. Being really funny. I think I think that my unnamed protagonist herself she didn't really make laugh. She made me kind of like nod, sometimes an amusement, but it was really the other characters that came in and sort of interrupted her life or characters that she sought out that really I thought or funny, people her best friend Riva who so over the top needy her psychiatrist, who's just over the line of satire this on again off. Again, asshole boyfriend, who is sort of the apotheosis of jerk. Those people made me laugh. And I think that levity was the humor in the book was crucial. Because in many ways, the premise is really dreary. So, yeah, it had to be funny and not no way that I was saying, oh, has to be funny because people aren't going to want to read this, because the premises of dreary. But. It just has to be funny to in order to exist in some kind of balance and for me to be able to tolerate it, it was like the humor in the book is a way of coping with the book. I also I found your your portrayal of the art world Grady, amusing the kind of players even the works of which at some point comes up that they're intended to be subversive. But as you nameless Nouri to cool in that she just can't counter coach crap. I assume this it was really fun to right. Ause did you research? Did you go to galleries and spend time in that kind of world or what's funny, how things come together because really haven't been one for galleries much definitely love art, particularly love painting. There isn't a much painting in the book, but there's a lot of sculpture, sort of conceptual art. And it just so happened that in the year that this book takes place that was the year in New York City that I was interested in going down to galleries and Chelsea. I mean that's not a total coincidence, two thousand and two thousand one were really interesting time I thought because art was becoming so subversive in America, there seemed to be room for a lot of irreverent playfulness and disgust anger and away that didn't actually threaten anything because we were some of us, especially in New York really still living off the fat of the nineties, which is why when shit hit the fan in two thousand one we were so unprepared for it, psychologically. So the art is in a way. A function of excess the art in the book is supposed on the most basic level like people are ridiculous. And they will pay attention to whatever is put in front of them despite it may be having questionable value. But then when I was actually writing with the art was, it was so weird and funny that I got really into it, and actually developed a character who is one of the artists ping, she who ends up playing like an enormous part in the development of my protagonists toward the end of the book. I don't wanna give it away. But, like, yeah, it was interesting. I came at the art with utter cynicism and left thinking like, well, this actually is really important. Even if I think the art sucks. At least in my book. And another thing to do with the year. I'm curious as to why you chose to set the novel during in two thousand and have it culminate with nine eleven. I didn't start off thinking that's when I was writing. I started off thinking, okay. This is some hazy. Two. Oh something or later even and it really wasn't. I mean not to repeat myself, but it really wasn't until I figured out that my character had been a get quote unquote gallery. Girl, this sort of pointless position that she had in our gallery in Chelsea during this time early two thousands that I realized that I had been writing a book about that period. And then as the plot developed a made perfect sentence. I mean, there was this, like, if I had set the book in an America in two thousand seventeen the decision to sleep for year would feel completely understandable, as a response to it was happening culturally and politically in technology. I mean there was there now too. I mean there's just so much that I think everybody feels like. They wanna sleep through. But in two thousand you know not everybody was connected to their cell phone. There's still a sense of the like live, like human liveliness in New York City. There is still a sense of, like radical grit and swish of money and dirt. I mean, it was still an interesting place, wasn't totally digitized. It was not a virtual reality. It was a reality to take a year out of reality is much more radical choice than to take a year out of what is reality. Now it almost would be mealy meaningless, basically, if I wrote a book about somebody sleeping in two thousand seventeen or eighteen would be like, oh, that's all about Donald Trump, and it wouldn't I don't know. Wouldn't be interesting to me, throwing on talking a little bit more about Neil. I think you've said, in pasta into views, the you, you felt slightly Costa for a bit living in New York that you were surrounded by so many peers with similar, I'm visions d still feel that way. No, not really. I think it really wasn't. I mean I lived in New York for a decade. So it wasn't so much that I constantly felt surrounded by peers competing with me to write fiction. It was just that New York can get very isolated in New York City, even though it was like one of the most exciting places I've ever lived. And I miss it, and I love it, and every time I go there, I'm like amazed and terrified and feel at home. But it's easy to forget the world outside of New York. And, and actually think that the ease with which we learned to navigate the city kind of dumbs and Dole's us from a lot of them more beautiful and. Subtle aspects of the human experience. So to get out of it was sort of to reconnect to a part of myself that reminded me more of my childhood, a more naive place, where I could slow down, and really consider everything a little bit with less mediation, more mmediately. I guess. And about my peers, I mean New York is a really really literary place. I mean only in the sense that the literary world there is very vibrant. It's where publishing happens and a lot of writers live there. And now when I go back, I mean, I almost solely go back to work. So I am kind of still in that bubble. But I don't feel that sense of competition. And I really like living in Los Angeles. I really like it. If you meet a writer, if someone says, like a writer each system, they're writing movies. So writing books. Nobody gives a shit. I guess, but yeah, and you you're in writing what interests you is right to how has that if it has changed how has that changed over the is. Oh my gosh. Well, I think maybe in some ways that hasn't changed, because my pro choice to write writing, especially novels has been really one of spiritual project like this is a spiritual project. I'm being called to do this, and I'm not going to try to figure out why. Because if I try to my answer will be incorrect, and then I will be sort of dashing through what I meant to experience instead of surrendering experiencing it. So when novels come to me, I kind of sign this agreement with myself in God, I'm going to go through and do this, and it's total trip, oftentimes, it's a fucking nightmare and. Then, you know deeper and more satisfying and more mind-blowing than anything else. I could do my time. So my pro has always been one of I mean it sounds really ridiculous. But like service like service to myself, then I've sacrificed a lot because of it. I mean it's been really I'm married now. But I didn't used to be. And it would have been impossible. You know, to have close relationships with people have always had, like, you know, really, really close friends, but it's hard to be that invested in something and, you know, be able to just like run out and do shit, and forget it. I'm like way too intense for that. I'm trying to find more of a balance, and maybe more craft level I could say which is probably what you were asking. I'm much more interested now in making the writing invisible. Whereas when I first started writing like in before published anything and, and even with mcglew my first book, I was really concerned with the writing being a tangible material stuff. The stuff of words that you could really hold, and see and look at and hold onto, and posit any moment. And look at a sentence as a physical structure. Now, I'm more interested in writing in such a way that the writing becomes invisible. And the reader can simply experience without efforting through the words that doesn't mean that I'm writing easier per se. It's just means that my narrative, voices are may be interested in having a narrative voice that is. Less tenuous and more fluid. I'm not sure if I've really understood it yet. But this is my interest, the book, I'm working on now is narrated by a ghost and a ghost shouldn't sound like the way I sound right now. Her voice is really different than mine, so trying to figure that out. That sounds great excited to read it. I hope I can do it. And just going to end with one final question about. When did you decide that you wanted to tell stories that you wanted to be a writer? I think it was in sixth grade, which in the US, I think you're eight or nine no, I think you're ten somewhere around, then I read the necklace by more Pessoa, and it totally blew my mind. I don't know why it was that story. Maybe because I was so young. I mean obviously I should actually shared that story with some peers. In a kind of workshop situation. I was in several years ago in the overwhelming response. Is this is so sexist? But I didn't was nine I wasn't thinking I mean, obviously, I wasn't thinking about it in that way because I still don't think about it in that way, I think about it as this short story. That functions like someone's an entire life, and how your entire life can get fucked up because of one personality, flaw that leads to a decision that leads to an accident that leads to entrapment, and then at the end you realize you're an idiot, just not think that was, it was so funny and heartbreaking, and really excited me in a new way. And I think that's when I was like, oh, this is what I wanna do. Yeah. I'm glad he did it. Thanks tessema. Spike. Thank you so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. Many thanks to testimony fake the paperback of Meyer rest and relaxation published in the UK by Jonathan Cape is out now. The big interview is produced by Yolene gafa and edited by Cassie Galvin. I'm clearly Ashby. Thank you very much for listening.

New York writer national book Critics Circle a Clary Ashby US Meyer Riva Nouri America Newton Chelsea Massachusetts Paris Madrid Nevada MSA China Hemingway Newell Booker
How to Save Money on Household Items (Hour 1)

The Dave Ramsey Show

40:23 min | 1 year ago

How to Save Money on Household Items (Hour 1)

"From the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. Broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio, it's the Dave Ramsey show where your money in your life or the focus. I'm Chris HOGAN filling in for Nate. And we're excited to talk with you America about your money. I know you've got questions, I know, you have things on your mind, and we'd love to hear from you. But I'm also joined in studio by very special guest. I have Rachel Cruze with me bestselling author and incredible blogger and host of the Rachel Cruze show. Hello there allow HOGAN it's good to be with you Christiane. I took over an hour yesterday heard and we survived HOGAN, we did it. You guys would not only survive, but you would thrive as it was so fun. And now, I get to with you. So we're gonna fun. Yeah. So America, if you're out there, I know you have questions Rachel talks about money lifestyle. I know you things on your mind. Give us a call. We'd love to hear from you that number to call triple eight eight to five five two two five or you can hit us up on social at Ramsey show. So we'd love to hear from you. So we're going to the phones and we have Karen on the line. Karen? How are you? How I'm doing? Are you? Oh, we're doing fantastic. What question do you have Rachel? Okay. So I'm twenty five kind of lousy step two. I started with thirty nine thousand dollars wrote that and now have about his sagamore. The next couple of months, and I'm not the age where everyone is getting married, and I have three weddings to go to this year. And on the in one of them. We were so excited about the wedding. And talk about the expenses are starting to power up. I'm becky. Track assassins of reason for house hesitation. Who'd be Jack and Jill party and of our people. Someone's nice on how hassle if it's really. Yes. That's a great question. And Karen, it's so expensive isn't it the season even just attending a wedding. You know, you're like oh have to buy a gift. I mean, there's just so much that goes into this. So what my answer maybe a little different for you compared to someone else considering you're on baby step two, and whenever you're getting out of debt. My philosophy. Always is the deeper you sacrifice your lifestyle. The faster you're going to get out of debt. And so what you have to do is kinda prioritize and say, okay. What can I do in this situation? You're Ashby bridesmaids home, assuming a family member or a best friend. Yeah. Best friend best friends. Okay. Yes. I I mean speaking as a woman, I want you to be a part of that day. Right. But I think that there are boundaries that you are gonna have to set up, and I always say honesty is the best policy. So call the bride. She's your best friend. She probably knows you've been on this journey of getting out of debt. And just say, hey, listen, I can get the dress. I'm I I can attend the showers, but may throwing in money for every single thing is just not going to be a possibility for me. So if if you're comfortable of me like showing up and not be able to participate. I totally get that like kind of ask her opinion on like what's your expectations of me and the season considering I have these goals that I'm really really really trying to hit. But I still want to be a part of the celebration. So maybe there are things you say yes to find the dress or that kind of thing. But then other things you may have to say no to and have that boundary. But there's ways to do it and expensively, especially hopefully, if she's understanding if you guys have a great friend. Ship and good communication, and you lay it all out there and say, hey, here's here's the reality. Here's what I'm dealing with. And just have that conversation. But it is tough in some people are embarrassed by that like even me just saying that there could be people listening like oh gosh. Rachel, listen. I would rather just lay it on the table and let the cards fall as they do then saying no, and avoiding it and missing it or doing something that you're going to regret later and spending know thousand bucks, or whatever it is. And then you were grad so on the front end have that conversation, and how long have you been friends with this person? How long have you been friends with this person who's having the wedding? Since like elementary school. Great one. Okay. Very long tax. So all of the expenses that you rattled off to Rachel. How much do you think that's going to cost? Like the expenses totaling to around nine hundred thousand. Okay. And right now with where you are what debts. Do you have left that you're paying off? About eight thousand dollars. Okay. What are the debts? It's just loan. Okay. You got a student loan. All right. And what's the payment on the student loan? The minimum five hundred. All right. And you have how long before this wedding. Two. Okay. This july. It's coming up soon. Yeah. Okay. All right. Rachel, I agree. I think it's important, you know, to be able to power ties, and you can't do everything with it's tough. This is a childhood friend from elementary. Yeah. Right. And so this is it's not really an option for her not to go. But I like what you said about participation level. What you're able to do being honest about that. And here's the thing to one of my good friends. She's still single and she's a little bit younger than me. She's in that season. Like I went to the wedding summer season. Is when I call it is all the friends got married in one summer and everyone's exhausted by it, like, do you know what I mean, like, whether you're even the bride she's probably been a bridesmaid in four other different weddings, like the whole process is exhausting. So people know it's gonna be a shock to. Hey, I don't have a ton to spend on this. Like, here's kind of what I'm doing. But may I what a mature decision too late on boundary because some people are just yes. And they say, yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And then they look up your later, and they're all this credit card debt and all these, weddings. So people into that's that is a piece of you. Hopefully could advice that they're going to understand. We're gonna be impetus to this especially if you're in that season with all your friends getting married everyone's feeling the tension others out of this wedding. Was not a surprise. Okay. They didn't just decide, you know, within two weeks that they're gonna have a wedding July. And it's a lot like the holiday season, right? You've got the invitation you knew it was coming. And so I want us to take better steps and planning for some things setting aside, and sacrificing and if you've got to take on an extra job or look to sell some stuff, you know, it's that if you want this then I need to do this. Yes. It said that and you know, what Winston I did in our everydollar budget. We added a birthday because we're out of the wedding phase. And we're in the little kid birthday party face. Like all the cousins, all the friends, and I are friends like me, and I are their kids are having birthday party. So it's not even like our kids our friends or their friends being invited to these parties. Right. So I mean, so we started a line item in the budget just has like birthday gifts. And we've just kept it going because every. Month every month or seems to be a birthday, and we don't spend a ton. I go on Amazon and just by something. Like, what's what's the average amount? You're spending on a little gift. Fifteen twenty good. But I like it in the budget because I like to know. Okay. If it comes up. Yes, scared it, it's in the budget. So if you're in a season of weddings, or you're in a season of graduation season's coming up this month in may like if you're in that just put it in the budget as well, you just gave a reminder to all of America out there. Graduation. That means those invitations are going to start to come through. That's more expensive than kids birthday. They really is. And so against start to think about that and be aware start to plan for, but it's okay to say, no, you can't expect to do everything. Everyone wants you to do. And it's really important now, Rachel, you are also tell other people about ways to save money and being practical with your Rachel Cruze show. Your most recent episode you give tips on saving money on everyday items. Let's talk about this in the next break. Let me just say, Costco, Costco's secrets for you people secrets oh secrets anymore, but sure straight tips. So stay tuned. When we come back. Rachel Cruze is gonna give us some money saving secrets and tips. You're listening to the tape Ramsey show. Good security system is a sound financial investment a break in concert. You back thousands of dollars. But home security also helps you fear less, and you can't put a dollar value on that. That's why I recommend. Simplisafe simply safe keeps working if the power goes out, if your wife, I goes down or even if a burglar smashes your keypad, plus there's no pricey contracts or hidden fees. Go to SimpliSafe dot com slash Ramsey to get our ten percent discount. That's SimpliSafe dot com slash Ramsey. No, america. I'm Chris HOGAN filling in for Dave Ramsey's. You're listening to the Dave Ramsey show. Before we went to the break, I'm joined here this hour with Rachel Cruze bestselling author, and and host of the Rachel Cruze show. But Rachel mentioned that she had some secrets some money saving measures that she was going to save tell us about on how to save. So Rachel revealed these creeks. Secrets with the latest episode was all about how to save money on everyday items. So you can check out the rich occur show Facebook YouTube or the podcast. So this contents all on there. So you can check it out, but we did a whole food segment to because grocery store, it's expensive. So we're talking about one part is do you buy like generic orgy by the name brand? And so going through everything for medicine to food to all of it, so Costco, we love Costco. They're generic brand is Kirk Lyons. And what's crazy is that they have licensing, whatever whatever the deal is. I don't understand all the business stuff around it. But some of their items from Kirkland's are made in the exact same factories by the same. Products everything of name brands, so Kirkland's batteries are actually Duracell they're made from the in the Duracell plants. Coffee, some of their coffee is Starbucks. Brewed but it's Kirk Lyons. Starbucks, and then my favorite which you'll appreciate shampoo the shampoo. The Kirkland's shampoo is the same. Okay. This wasn't an exact fact, but the internet says, it's sure so I believe it. Pure Allah, g would you don't know. This again, Purity's very very very nice burn ship. You it's the the burn shape. I use ano- much I pay for that dang shampoo. And it's made by the exact same in the same company as payroll g anyway, it's fascinating, folks. So there is ways to save money. I don't appreciate that of all the things you rattled off. When you mentioned the shampoo and other hair joke that was a that was a back sit next to me sometimes. Chris jokes at one listen so rolling down. So you're telling me the generic stuff is the same quality as this name brand Kirkland's, I can verify that not always. But but even like how pharmacists doctors they even recommend buying generic medicine versus all of it. It's passing. So it's all in that up to the show check it out. But there's ways ways to save HOGAN. All right, America. So you need to check out the Rachel Cruze show. She's got all kinds of tips. She's got how to stay fashionable on a budget, which is going to help me with this whole thing about generic versus name-brand waste this money and eat healthy. She's got a new video that airs on Facebook and YouTube every other week and our podcast is available. Also on apple Spotify and Google podcasts every other week as well. So definitely check that out Rachel as we talk about this generic versus name brand. I did have this thought there are a few things. You can't go generic with. Yes, I agree with that. Okay. What are a couple of things for you. That you go generic with cannot do generic cereal. Okay. Gotta go name-brand cereal like hunting Cheerios. It's as if I get like, Honey, oats, or whatever. Like, I could take the difference of cereals, the place all skirts, and what's another one. I would say oh gosh. I'd say make up as a lady I like, I will invest in nicer makeup. And I'm sorry. Hey, I got food for you. What about you? What's your new? Okay. Was a couple of things. Chocolate. Can't go generic chocolate. Ooh. Brand crow chocolate and no generic cheese. Sameh generic teaser. Can't do it. Can't do it. Tastes matters. People taste matters dairies important. Bottom line is is America. There are ways out there to save money, and we have to be more intentional, and when we're intention on where aware we can stay in control, the average percentage is thirty dollars. I'm sorry thirty percent percentage between generic name brand. So just by choosing that you're saving thirty percent without having to cut something out another way to save money. I love that too. Art. We're going back to the phones next up. I have Tori on the line, Tori. How are you? Harry out here. We're doing fantastic. How can we help you today? Okay. So I have this is all try to make it simple. I have one full-time physical job one salaried remote job, and then a side hustle. My salaried remote job has offered me to shoot them number to see if I could just have the one job instead of two, and I'm a little afraid to do that. Because my physical job, you know, I get like yearly bonus they pay seventy percent of my insurance whenever I'm in baby step for you know, they have a great retirement deal that they have and the remote dog doesn't have any benefits whatsoever. So I kind of I guess I wanted to see what y'all thought if I said that. And I I won't say it's tempting because right now like, I work, you know, of course, h five like most people. I live thirty ish miles from where I work. So I'm missing a lot of times with my kids, and I feel very overwhelmed and rushed almost on a daily basis between all of it. I it's just it's getting to be too much. And I don't know what to do. So refresh me you have a full-time jobs work eight to five, and then you also have a remote job. Yeah. So my remote job is salaried. But when I started my physical, it's complicated. I'm sorry. When I started my physical job, they knew that I had my my side hustle, and I had my remote job. And they said that they were fine with me doing both here at the physical place because they just need someone physically to be here in the event of, you know, something comes up, but I'm not really that busy here and then too. So my remote job knows that I'm doing it. So I'm not like cheating or scamming anybody. They all know that I'm working all. These jobs, and they're all okay with it. So the physical job won't shoot a focus on them one hundred percent and the other way the remote job wants you to folks on them one hundred percent, which one do you enjoy? I'm just curious. I I like I mean both have pros and cons of the remote is human resources. So a lot of people, but it's all about phone. So I don't actually get interactions. And then my physical job is graphic design, which I you know, I went to school for art. I I like to think I'm in artistic so I enjoy that one. But they both are kind of equal as far as pros and cons in my opinion as far as which one I enjoy in which one I could go without. So tell me, what's your side hustle. Tiger. Okay. All right. And so really, you know, looking at this. You've got a decision to make right? Okay. And where are you leaning? If you had to make the decision before we hang up. What would you do? I'm gonna cry just thinking, I I really have no idea. I'm so torn and my husband. We were just we don't know what to do. I mean because there's a chance I could shoot my remote job a number like we can't afford that and nothing will change. But there's also the chance I shoot them that number that would compensate and match. So I'm not losing any wages. Sure. And they're like, yeah. We can do that. What you need to do is since you're remote job doesn't have the benefits when your dog doesn't have the retirement. Like, you said like the 4._0._1._K matching which is fine because there's other ways to do retirement as you need to say, okay. Here's the insurance. Here's what all this is gonna cost if I have to pay for out of pocket, and then put that with the total amount for your remote say, hey, here remote job. Here's what I need to cover everything that's being covered now, and maybe a little bit of a bump to replace the salary of the full-time gig. And so I would say look at that. And look at the lifestyle changes to the the remote when you said, you can be at home, which I know you enjoy people, but maybe it's better for the kids like in the season. Depending on what your kids are a may be a huge blessing to be able to be home to be able to do that. Or maybe you look up and say, you know, what I would rather just do this fulltime salary job get the benefits interact with the people. This is what I enjoy. But doing this over the long term, Tori, it seems like a lot. And I just don't want you to get burned out. So I think that you, you know, throwing out a a high number for the. A remote job is worth it the worst. They can say is. No, you guys. Can reevaluate completely agree? And I love that her and her husband are having that conversation. Yeah. Talking through talking about the pros and cons. And you don't wanna think too that you're making thirty year decision. All they can tell you know. Right. And it looks like with your side-hustle, you've got time to be with people and interact and have fun, Tori. So. Yeah, let's sit down get a number tell them that. Right. Don't think for them. Give them the opportunity to give you an answer. And guess what? They might just surprise you who knows, but Dr and thirty miles each direction now, that's some time. So you've got some opportunity in front of you said give them a number of be confident. This is the Dave Ramsey show. What if buying a house was like buying a timeshare a pressure? Cooker sales presentation with no option for a real estate agent to look over the contract. No inspector to uncover hidden problems. No loan officer to review the terms. You would never buy a home this way. But that's exactly how most time shares are sold and that's stupid. If you're stuck in a timeshare if you can't sell it if the resort won't let you out call timeshare exit team, call eight four four nine nine nine exit or timeshare exit team dot com. America. You are listening to the Dave Ramsey show on Chris HOGAN filling in for date, and I'm joined in studio today with miss Rachel Cruze, who is helping people all over the place. Save money with her show, the Rachel Cruze show. You definitely want to make sure that you check that out on YouTube. Rachel you're doing well. Thank you. Yes. This is fun HOGAN, we are having fun with you your behavior, and that's a good thing. So we're going back to the phones America. If you've got a question about money, I wanna hear from you. Give us a call that number to call triple eight eight to five five two two five again that's eight eight eight two five five two two five. We'd love to hear from. You are going to Minneapolis. We've got Ashley on the phone. Ashley, how are you? Good. How are you guys? We are doing fantastic. How can we help you? So I graduated in December from a university. And now, I'm I just got a temp position temporary officiant at that same university cleaning, and I'm making fifteen dollars an hour and about nine hundred dollars a paycheck. And so, but my loans are my student loans are coming up and that I have to pay back in June. And it's about sixty three thousand dollars, which is big stress. So I've been listening today for like a couple of months now, and I'm on step baby step two. But since I I can basically lose my job tomorrow. If the guy comes back who is on medical leave like should I just get to saving three to five months in? Vance. Or should. I just start paying off all my debts. And the only that I have is my student loans right now or sixty thousand student loans. What did you get a degree at so individualized study with a focus on academic advising and minor in women gender and sexuality studies. So you're working this temp job right now because someone is out. Yes, somebody is is out because of an personal accident. Okay. And what are they do back? I have no idea HR like more call me when they hear from them. But if they hear from him and say that the doctor says he can work on Monday. I'm out of a job. Well, I hear you the first and foremost, you need to have your resume dust it up and you need to be in pursuit of your job. Right. Nine hundred nine hundred dollars is that a month every every two weeks every two weeks. Okay. So you're right at eight hundred a month. And so to answer your question. Ashley, Ashley, no. I don't want you to change the baby steps that thousand dollars saved up and everything else, you know, you're saving and putting toward the student loan debt. And so don't you own the just the steps, but we gotta do is just your actions in as far as getting after your full time job. We don't want you, you know, beholden to this person coming back, and then now you don't have income. So, you know, be in pursuit. I would communicate with the HR department talk with them about, you know, if they have positions available and something for you begin to get your resume out talked to the people, you know, inside of your circle of influence, and you know, for you fulltime job becomes the thing. That's on your mind and it's important because otherwise you can feel vulnerable. Absolutely. And you're making twenty one thousand a year. Ashley, I want you making forty like he needed to be making double you really do because the student loan is sixty three thousand dollars and at this rate. Even if even if the guy never came back to work, and you can't keep this job and win financially over the long term to be able to get out of debt quickly because that's that's the Zell intensity. We talk about is getting that. So you know, why I would go get any job possible. It's making more than this. I mean anything I'm forty hours a week. You know, I'm I'm hustling, I'm going I'm working extra above and beyond the forty hour week job. You're getting I mean, if I were you I'd make it my part time job to find a fulltime job because it's gonna take you a longtime girl, and it's so unpredictable right now like you don't want to be in this situation. So versus letting your destiny your future be in this other person's hands depending on when they come back Unidas accuser self now, we're all vulnerable in our jobs. Right. I mean like, you never know what can happen, but you're an extra vulnerable position. Because you. Don't know. So I mean, I would be getting something, and it may not be your dream job. It may not be in academic with advisory or whatever your your degree was. But I begin something and be making some money and paying the set off in the great thing is is you're still so young and you have time on your side. So like, but don't let that slow you down see that as urgency that man if I can get myself out of debt in the next three years have a goal two years. Whatever it is that you're going to work hard pay off that debt and then continue on. There's people six years old listening to this wishing that they had this information right after they graduated college. So you have so much potential Ashley. So so exciting to really grows on love. She's got the desire to work. You know, she's not sitting back. She's. Student loans or going to become payable you're on the ball. But yes, definitely get after it let the people, you know, that are inside your circle that you are looking for a job and Rachel you hit on something. It's not going to be the dream job. No. But it's you need a job to have money coming in consistently. And I would probably even advise you to take on a second job and devote every dime of that extra job toward the student loan debt. And as you do that you'll start to make progress. But Rachel there's something else for these people that are graduating college and coming out about to start life. I want to encourage them to slow down. Be careful don't go out looking at cars and come home with a car payment. And then hurry up and go by home. Now, you've got a mortgage a car and student loans. It creates stress I'll absolutely not live that transition of lifestyle between college in the world can be an exciting one. Because you know, maybe it is your first full time job. And you're like I have benefits, and I have is this an adult. It's so exciting and you can get lost almost in that fantasy world. So HOGAN, you're exactly. Right. You need to buckle on clean up the mess that way gosh, you could be twenty eight years old and your retirement, your cash flow and stuff. I mean, it's just it's amazing the opportunity people have at any age, but especially you guys graduating college, man. Intentional and be intentional. You hit on that? And understand about how money works and take your time. But start where you're working now. They know how you've performed and how you work let that HR person know that hey, you're interested in a fulltime job. And they've seen you. They know you. So it can't hurt to ask. Ashley, the check with them. And find out if there are other positions inside there that are available, but then also reach out to the college start to look and think a little bit different. But your friends are connected people that know, you know, your work ethic, and how you're going to go about things they would love to be able to help you find a job. We just have to allow them to so get your resume dusted off Email it to some people. Let them know you're looking, and you never know what can happen. What can come from that? All right. Listen, Rachel, I have heard of all types of different days out there. Okay. I've heard that there's a a national taco day even a national pizza day. Oh, there's a national pizza is that national sibling day earlier this month or late April. Okay. Always stays, isn't it? But did you make a Margarita day? I'm just saying you would know about that. But listen, did you know that there's a national life insurance? Yeah. Now, listen, it's one of those things that that that people don't think about, but Dave recently posted a compelling video on his Facebook and Instagram, and I dare you to watch it and not cry as you think about this. It's so important for us to make sure that we have protection for our selves, and our families, the here's the story of the video Sondra a young lady who had eighty thousand student loan debt after listening to this show. She and her husband started working the plan, Rachel to pay off debt that got insurance life insurance that we recommend Basu's found out they were pregnant but shortly after their new baby was born the husband suddenly died, and as you can imagine they went from perfect to absolutely just devastated. I can't even imagine they're feeling. But in the middle of grieving the last thing you to have to deal with this financial stress. Figuring out how you're gonna pay for bills. Are you going to take care of your fam-? They do what's necessary. But here's the thing because they got disciplined that got themselves out of debt, and they actually heard the advice and took the step. They were able to put themselves in a position to take care of the Stanley family. And it's so very important. And you know, everyone always thinks Rachel this not going to happen to them. You know, they really do. And so it's so important for you to take care of your your family. You know, show them you love them. And so I wanna encourage you to go get an insurance checkup. Go to daveramsey dot com slash checkup. Take our five minute coverage checkup, and you can figure out what you need if you need to add if you need to adjust or tweet it's white their love your family enough to take that step again. Go to daveramsey dot com slash checkup. Life insurance is just that important America. You're listening to the Dave Ramsey show. Belo america. You are listening to the Dave Ramsey show. I'm Chris HOGAN filling in for Dave and joined in studio with Rachel Cruze. And we're excited to be talking about your life and your money. So if you've got a question I want to hear from you give us a call the number to call is triple eight eight to five five two two five again that's eight eight eight two five five two two five. And don't forget you can also send us questions via social media the calls on his at Ramsey show. We're going back to the phone. We got Meghan on the line from Kansas City, Meghan. How are you? All we're fantastic. How can we help you today? Question. We are on baby step four, and we built a house in two thousand seventeen. So it'll be two years this August and our house payment. This was kind of before I got crazy into the baby steps, but our house payment is probably forty to forty five percent of our take home pay. And I know that they've suggest not moving or moving like last resort. But those number like, I kind of been this running a lot of numbers. And I don't know they just don't sit. Well with me because right now, we're only able to do like eight percent retirement due to the big house paint have no extra money. Let's talk about this house. Okay. How much did it cost to build? Well, we kinda bought it when it was already started. So we just had a set price. But it was like to are one was like for two forty one. And we owe to thirty four now. All right, and how much is your payment? Right now, we just got a Texas. So it's going to be going up. But right now, it's sixteen twenty five sixteen twenty five is your mortgage payment. Okay. Did you do a fifteen or thirty year thirty? All right. What's a good interest rate though? What's your interest rate three point eight seven five? Okay. And what's your household income? Sixty five during all, right? And so your income was sixty five when you all bought this home. Okay. And what's that? Stupid which called hindsight now. Right because once you wrestle through and you start figuring it out what what happens is you become aware now between you and your husband who who's most emotionally attached to this home. Honestly, neither one of us. We moved out here due to my husband's job. So he's like two within two minutes of a drive and previously. He was about thirty. So he moved out here to get to his work. So you justified overspending on the house because of its location pretty much. That's the fact that's the reality. Right. And so now you look at this and you go K at forty percent. Do you all have kids we have three little boys ages eight seven and four K? So you all are busy to and I work night shift. And so I'm I go like thirty something hours without sleep every time. I work goodness. It's so sixty five as the total household income. Yeah. I'm technically part time. I work at a hospital on nights, but do the kids and my husband works six days a week. I can't really pick up anything else. And so that's what I was figuring in my head. I'm like we both get about three percent annual raises. So. Even just sitting here for we might be able to get up to the fifteen percent in the retirement maybe like three or four years from now. But that's not being able to start college next around the house. How long have you guys been villain the stress of this house? I mean, honestly, we can make the payment fine. It's just we don't have extra like, I'm thinking long term kids college wanting to pay off how be have it house paid off in ten to fifteen years at the most. And I just feel like in this house. We can't do it. But I know he says don't move last resort. So I don't that's where I'm kind of. That's the advice we give when the house payment is not out of control. But meghan. I'm tell you just from the numbers. This house owns you guys. Like, you're you're in you're possibly even working a job to pay the house payments considering your part time. Right. I'm like you're looking to say, oh my gosh. Like what this is doing with. This is costing family the stress, and the fact that you guys aren't even emotionally attached that as you were talking. I honestly I went to a man they built the house. They probably picked out some of the finishes. They're invested in it. And as a woman like for me. I'm like, my house is like my away says like it's the place where you raise your kids and you have memories there. You know, you I don't know. I get emotionally attached to homes where you can't. And so that was mere problem when he asks who's more mostly tach like either of us so girl, I'd sell it. I would get your life back like if you guys if you can get. Yeah. If you can get a payment twenty twenty five percent like go drastic we say twenty five percent. But even if you can get something even lower. And maybe he commutes an extra fifteen minutes, but men you can breathe. You can actually do your goals. Like you're talking about instead of eight percent retirement considering you guys are maybe four you could buff up to fifteen percent. You guys can save money and go on a trip was a family in the summer. I mean like you get your life back this house's. It's owning you, and you can hear it in the voice, and we always try to rationalize things. Well, it's not that bad or we can make it work. No, it's should you. Right. Should you allow this house to be the reason you're what waking up and going to work with the kids that you have at eight seven and four they don't care about whether they are they care about their time with you guys with mom and dad, so here's what I do you and your husband sit down tonight talk about this and talk about the option of putting this thing on the market reach out to an e o p a real estate deal elp. Go to daveramsey dot com talk with them. Find out the cops how much is this home worth you? Call your mortgage holder get a payoff on this thing and really start to get a view of what this looks like. But again, I want them Ray. To be on the same page, husband and wife as they make this decision because it's going to be a big decision. Well, I was hearing her and if I'm reading you right Meghan through through the airwaves you wanted permission. Like, you're not fighting us. I mean, you're you're wanting to weigh out from the way, you're even phrasing. Your questions though, as you're making your statement. So I hope we just gave you fly and be free. So yes, that would be our advice a hundred percents because here's the thing. You can always go get another house. Let's say you do you buy a new house and you're like, oh, it's only twenty five percent, man. We miss paying forty percent of our income. You could probably go get another house and forty percent of your income ban. Put to a house payment like you won't go back. I promise. But like that's the deal. So get your life back and just the the the sense of relief and the quality of life. They're going to have that still work, even if you still choose to work. That's great. Okay. But here's the deal. What are their friends going to say what if they're if they're putting this house on the market and friends with probably over and they've loved it? Right. As their. Talking to friends. How do they explain this the friends and family that this is so not worth it? Like, we're not able to do stuff that we want to do. We we have goals not only for retirement, but we have goals that we want to take a beach trip every year with the kids or mean, whatever the things are that you could have freed up. It's your quality of life. And man in America, we get so sucked into this is you Meghan. But just and general culture sucked into our stuff. Our houses our cars, it's our lifestyle, and it takes the life out of us. And we let that define us. And it's like, you know, what what if you just like took everything and you're like I'm gonna go to step down in my lifestyle. What that does what that frees up in your life. And some of you out there, you're living paycheck. Reggie you're in the crunch. And you're like, hey, I've I've I've done all the sacrifice, you know. But but those of you that can make choices to do things differently and put money towards getting out of debt getting that freedom. I mean, all of it. It's cautious worth as Rachel said. Get your life back able to make decisions for your. Self and speaking of being aware and contentment you've got a new book out the contentment journal. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I know. I'm really excited about it came out, April second, and it's a ninety day guided journal so every day there's a prompt. So you know, what you're riding. It's just the blank journal. But contentment is huge. It's a it's a heart issue. But it's also a money issue. I mean when you can get your heart in the right place. It's funny. How your money follows and people who are contents. They win financially faster than those who aren't able to sacrifice lifestyle. They're able to pay off debt faster save money. They give in so contentment, not just affects your joy in your life. But it affects your financial life as well. So. We're going to actually send you one of these Rachel's new content journal, Rachel where can people find it? Yes. Rachel Cruze dot com or anywhere books are sold. Fantastic. All right. Listen, you have an opportunity out there America to make some decisions about yourself your life and your money, and we're always decision away one step away from getting a little bit better trying to do things a little bit differently and taking the time and being focused. Rachel thank you for. Joining us scanning fantastic. I also wanna think producer James child and associate producer Kelly Daniel, and of course, you America. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Hey, it's Kelly associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey show. If you would like to your debt free scream live on the show. Make sure you Bizet daveramsey dot com slash show. It register we would love for you to come to national until day. Your story. Guys, if you're looking for real world, leadership and business advice from the top minds and business checkout. Our entree leadership podcast. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman. Here would love to have you. Join us weekly as we dive into conversations with the top minds in leadership and take your business questions to help grow yourself your team and your profits. Don't miss an episode subscribe to entree leadership where you listen to podcasts. Hey, it's James producer of the Dave Ramsey show. This episode is over but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.

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