20 Episode results for "Arlanda"

Singing and dancing prevents these issues from happening always

Xtra Xtra Presented By VDG Sports

19:47 min | 4 months ago

Singing and dancing prevents these issues from happening always

"Do extra extra visit. Did you sports. I'm your host vince. Douglas gregory filled A her every sense her her. You can follow extra extra on twitter at extra extra. V d g. Sort of electronics are on twitter. At ex-director vdi check out the website to extra extra dot fiji sports dot com once again extra extra dot. Vg sports dot com. This episode is not sponsored by vince. Douglas gregory dot com. And that's why you can keep up with me. Whereabouts my well being what's in my mind with non mind things in between and everything vince. And that's the inc d. o. u. g. l. a. s. gre g. o. r. y. dot c. o. m. And if you need me to spell it again you know what to do you know what to do. There's some buttons to help you out on that. There's some buttons to help you out on that in. Not talking about the believe button. I'm not talking about the. I believe but we have a youtube as well. Pdd sports everything is there like subscribe and share and beyond the lookout. Something new is coming around. Something new is coming round. But i can't tell you when i cannot tell you gain and jelly bird like voice now did pleasantries or out of the way. I think i should just go ahead and continue a few more noobs. Hey thank you for giving me the opportunity. Thank you for giving me a chance. Thank you the given me a second a minute or however long you decide to give me. I'm truly truly honored. And hopefully i live up to my expectations. Hopefully i live up to my expectations. Meanwhile rigs we do this almost every day. We back at it again wrecks. You know how we get down rex. Eighty s would it is. Is manny being manny and this is the new judge so you get you get it and nurse shogo nameless. It's almost time again. It is all most that time again. I haven't decided on what i was gonna do. I know i can't go see my our friend. And yes friend is in air quotes. My digits are going up and down to represent friend on this one. I can't go see my friend. Because i don't have enough petrol in the tank. I don't have enough fuel to make it that far to go to that station. That is so very very very very far from me. If i were to plan this sooner plan this a little earlier dan. i couldn't make it then. It will work out dan things. Would you know it'd be all gravy. He would be things would work out. Basically things would be all tudor. Geo day it would be but hey it didn't work out that way. I didn't plan it that way. I just kind of went with the flow. I kind of just went with the flow. And i'm gonna go with the flow on where. I'm going to go to get this petro to get this few but let it be known. I'm definitely going to keep the promise to myself and not run out of petrol again. So i can take that walk the walk that i don't wanna take and is definitely not one of shame is just breaking a promise to myself. Now we all on the same page on that. We're all on the same page of that. See something say something. See something say something. I saw something today. Ditches took me and threw me up against my vehicle. When i'm in my vehicle driving in no it wasn't an accident and no it wasn't iraqi rick and no. It wasn't anything like that. It was just something that i observed. See something say something. That just made me go. Whoa whoa whoa and yes. this is a pedestrians. Have a right away counted thing but vestry dreams have the right away in the last tailed i told was about the pedestrian me. Making a i contact me being on the same wavelength as pedestrian in everything. Working out perfectly. There was another vehicle in front of me. That did not have this same Interconnection is this deep deep. Deep deep don with a pedestrian. Like i d. I don't know what it is in no not myself on the back norm not patting myself on the back right now. I'm just pointing out some observations. I'm just pointing out some observations trying to keep the nonfiction. I'm just trying to keep it nonfiction. Just point out some observations. What i see and what i saw that happen right now in. I will not right now but you know at the moment i'm telling this because currently i'm not inside the g. ride. I'm not seeing. I'm not dancing and i'm definitely not making much chest pop and maybe that contribute to the vehicle in front of me having such a hard in bad time with the pedestrian because i was not in discovery mode i was not listening to my jams or anything did. I could sing to anything that. I can dance to anything i can. Do you know much as pop to now. I wasn't any of that. I was listening to the radio. You're listening to the radio but up heaps up peeps. I was listening to the radio. But i was listening to the oldies. So i was listening to old bees think seventies think seventies and maybe some eighty sprinkled in. But it was most seventies. It was music and songs that i'm familiar with a lot. Maybe sixty percent or so but the rest. I'm just like whoa okay. Yea so i was. I was being I was intrigued. Al's intrigued hours Focus in. I was focusing concentrating. Making sure my anticipation game was on point and definitely dependent on intuition while at the same time being super and yes duper amazed by what the sounds. That was coming out of my vehicle mladic. Okay i see. I i Yeah yeah okay Okay okay okay okay. I was doing that. Maybe that was bad. Signed for veal in front of me to begin with that. I was listening to the radio and i was listening to the oldies radio. And i wasn't listening into the top forties or some pop station. Oh you know the regular sounds where i can turn it on at any given and the guy to people the woman eighty artists can go. I have to say the name you know you turn on the radio. They you turn on the radio. They own you turn on the radio. He doesn't matter what time of the day in day on the ain't on if they're not on digest just went off or about the come on days a few artists this like that and watch the radio as watch route. Avoid the radio popular radio. I should say it'd be one. It wasn't even one of those kinds of situations. 'cause it was one of those kind of situations i believe. The view in front of me would have had a better chance in a better opportunity to be to make a personal connection with david estrin to make a personal connection with the pedestrian It an avenue way eating. Go down that way. 'cause i was listening to oldies. I was listening to otis so might as well just been. I bought as well just been disconnected from the world disconnected from all things that was happening. I can't take the on this. I cannot take the news. Because i was prepared. Minded station game was up mine. Patient game was on point. My intuition kicked me So things play out in my mind's eye before it actually played out so i was prepared for every in anything that was about to go down was about the pop off. However if you can follow me was not in front of me was not. We wasn't on the same wave link. I wasn't trying to be on this. Same wave i just know day was in front of me and it was gonna direction that i was going to go. Day was going a direction that i was not going to go so i was okay. I was okay way that you can blame it on. You can blame it on my ody's you can blame it on just about any day but don't blame it on the alcohol. Mr jamie fox. Don't do it don't do it so here's the thing. Here's a thing. Here's the thing here. A couple of things about this edition to what i've already mentioned and already say it does vehicle in front of me. They wanted to go straight. I just wanted to make a right turn. So we on chilling at the red light. Because i can't make a right. I can't turn on. Red is not assigned as telling me no turning on read it just it. I can't turn on because his view in front of me. A right there was maybe the universe giving some karma back but hey hey hey hey. Hey i don't hold grudges. Here i don't hold grudges and university defede on. Hey thank you. Maybe but nana nana no thank you. No thank you no thank you. Thanks but no thanks. How 'bout that universe but don't come don't come from me. Do not from me on his making an observation. Don't come from me. i can go right. I had to wait at the light for his video. Confronted me go straight. But i'm paying attention 'cause my My anticipation game awareness is own level one billion on level. One billion. My -ticipant awareness. My intuition everything i am. I'm leveled up. i'm level up and yes. The music is still playing. And yes i'm not making my chest pop and yes. I'm not singing dancing them. Focus on focus. I hit a music is going in one ear out the other year on processes on process in every information. That's in front of me just behind me. That's on the side of me. And i'm constantly constantly aware of everything is going on and that's from a great distance. I see a pedestrian. That's way way down across the street. And he pressing the button. He is president. Bud he is eight inches he is. Keita's can't wait. He's pressing a button. He's anxious in the traffic. That's going from left to right. They just they just have flawn. This is going. This is a fly in a guide. It's way way way across. The street wants to cross the road. Yeah road yeah he was. He was a little impatient. He was living patient. I can see this in. My mind is already going through a lot of different scenarios and none of them are good a lot of different scenarios and none of them are good. I'm just preparing myself to be able to go ahead and make this right. And just do what i gotta do. Go ahead and make this right. And do what i gotta do. As soon as the light goes green in his view in front of me makes a move. All i need is a little opening. Gimme that little opening universe. Give me that little opening. So i can do what to do. Key me that little opening in a causa just deal flying by from left to right is like been at that light for about five minutes but it could have been only two. I don't know because everything slow down or maybe anyway every thing slowed down. So i don't know i definitely don't know how long it was. I definitely don't know how long it was. I definitely don't how long it lasted. I definitely don't have long was no no no didn't know how long it lasted. No dole arlanda was when it finally stopped when they finally got the red light and we got the green light to go out of my mind. Either nari peeped out. All i need is a sliver. All i need is an opening while at the same time while at the same time was simultaneously. Hey you pick you choose i'm narrator raid you. Choose your own adventure here. I'm just narrate. I see the anxious fellow. Just not going to wait not going to wait at all in. Here's the confusing thing about the entire situation and status of crossing the road from the side that he was on and stat a crossing the road from this side of the yawn. It looked as though it looked as though that he was just going to walk across walk across. We got the green light. Now we got the green light so the impatience or the mind was working. I don't know what was taking place happening or any of that. I just know the time to go from left to right was win. The traffic was gone from left. To right however how ever i can't i can't be on the wave link of everybody and i was behind view. Confront me so it was the person in front of me. It was dare. It was their job to make this personal disconnection with pedestrian with. They was like. I'm gonna go because it is light forever for a long long time so we got too impatient. People too impatient people needing to go needing to get with a gourd a s a p as soon as possible as soon as possible so it is view dayton Predict that the fellow was going to cross out in front of him. All he did was like you know. I gotta go straight. I got the green light. I've been a long long time and fellow crossing decided you know instead of going from left to right when the traffic was going that way. I'm going to go from left to right when the traffic from the other end is going to cross so as you can predict as you know. He like just walked out in front of oncoming traffic in the middle of the road not street not residential area off road. Think almost highway but a a a level under highway. So do i wrote and the guy in front of me look like he didn't want to slow down or he didn't predict that this was going to happen even me being behind the vehicle in front of me and making my right. I'm ma mama. Mama mama spidey senses was led me know this vehicle needs to slow down and let the person go and that person is definitely going to cross out in front of him. My spidey senses. Peop- that out right. Before i was making turn and i was trying to make turn going from zero to whatever speed. I got up to to make the turn. It was low dubuque in front of me went from zero to however speed they needed to go across the road and it was pretty fast like fast and the guy was able to maneuver his way out in front of the vehicle while at the same time. Swing the items that he had in his hand at the vehicle missing. of course. wow going straight across. Let me make them make sense. Cross from left to right when the traffic was going straight. He's word and he missed the vehicle or vehicle swear missed him. Hey you pick you choose your adventure this yo adventure and then managed to actually do what was necessarily or through was. The light was four because by the time he swerved in made it to the right side. He came straight down. And that's fine because that's the same direction. Traffic was going. He didn't cross out in front of traffic. So i was happy to see that he made it but i was disappointed. I was so disappointed with the vehicle in front of me because they was unable to predict this day was unable to his and basically they added onto the situation by being impatient. See patients virtue patients of the virtue. If you believe a virtuous that is no judge zone some.

Douglas gregory vince shogo nameless manny twitter dan david estrin Mr jamie fox fiji defede nana nana youtube rick dole arlanda otis Keita Al Bud
   ?? Journey of selfless love..

GopikaViswam (SriRadheKrishna)

03:20 min | 6 months ago

?? Journey of selfless love..

"It could alone. That claim maddin gulping conduct stanley keystone. Later on do misled domain primerica. The etc canterbury. Next windy monmouth roni. David begnaud me. You're goodell's condemn d miller will begin a barbecue. Jason arlanda mumma newsletter by kim. Bigger than i'm done any new throughout the continent. Special what he adebayo though not not. They eliminated annetta cool. Need timothy's monique. None of it to me now. The unionist but maybe and indicate i'm ricky honey as it any that among the dynamics spot then right just not scored panico netted log. It would no model genie. Did peduto stole. Nina does not does this is stellar and do part of garland with the practical don knapp literally branson undo the knock me. Is the house handle cannabis. Because many were the hudson never motivation aggregate auburn and look good sending money. She ended up bremer low flat. Beyond enough donna and donna kelley swabbed arena built donate reporter. Knee the deloitte to tumor sorry minister. Nickel-metal are continually annex. Roemer rubio the enough optima central. I'm big daddy daddy by the mustang and but the menlo talamante gen leaky moldy daynuss and they hate the lucky media might even august mckie counterpart not bundled one baby. Update my knee in tacoma jc. A million of them abandoned nato being thirty prima prima makuta smarten inability mita giada. Over at mark butler rookie barder mainframe gb. Don giovanni number you pray may not eat beta create villacorta lady. What are you going to now. Uncover guys do new baby. I'm infamy know bond alina.

maddin stanley keystone David begnaud Jason arlanda mumma adebayo ricky honey panico don knapp primerica goodell donna kelley monique Roemer rubio miller timothy kim Nina garland branson auburn
Taxing the big tech companies

RNZ: The Detail

22:54 min | 3 months ago

Taxing the big tech companies

"Ooh i'm gonna in today on the detail the lightest salvo fired in the years. Long basal to get big t- to pay it's fear of tax two meeting g. Twenty finance ministers is underway in venice. Italy ministers are expected to endorse a deal setting a global minimum corporate tax. A fifteen percent treasury secretary. Janet yellen spearheaded that effort which would not only establish a global minimum tax. It would also rewrite the tax rules for the largest multi-national do go facebook amazon. These companies rake in teens of millions in some cases hundreds of millions and advertising revenue. Either year but pay very little and tax now. Lots of countries have tried lots of plans to change that with varying levels of success any digital company with revenue of more than seven hundred and fifty million euros of which at least twenty five million euros is generated in france would be subject to the levy. This new diverted profits tax puts the owners on the companies to disprove the shifting the money overseas for the purposes of minimizing tax. But is this most recent development really the plan. that's being hero. Today's or use another misdirected idea decent for the backburner a lot of politicians took to social media possibly factors into the decisions when bacteria companies threatened to leave the country or severely restrict what features they are chris keel senior business writer at the new zealand. Heroes who sat down with me to discuss. How much tax digital giants pay in new zealand. The complicated by entirely legal ways they've minimize it in the nuts and bolts behind this most recent proposal for somebody who has absolutely zero familiarity with companies. And how they pay tax. What money they patex on. And things like the ed ted's accompanied based in new zealand and they sell juanita his. How's it meet to work for a company. Is they sell samanta goods and then pie company tax rate of twenty percents on the prophet. So what is different. If anything about big digital particularly digital companies the difference with the the big take companies that can have substantial sioe some new zealand without having much actual physical operation here and we see that with google facebook apple and others. How do they do this. what are they selling. Must've stuff that they sell is through agents who often with vice spoke who google is primarily advertising. That can do that all online. Just sell software the cloud so they don't need to have offices that need to have lots of people here. They can do what they need to do. In that can wreck and millions and millions of dollars without actually having a physical prisons he and new zealand. Okay so why does that make things. Tricky from a perspective. Just use google as an example Back in two thousand nineteen people were looking at the online advertising. Market analyst is coming up very roughly seven hundred million who year being spent online and google was the cahaney earnings kc was really dominating so it was probably getting and about half a billion an ad revenue from new zealand and then when era companies office retain cayman in the order. A few tens of millions literally Reported a loss in the region of around one million and so they may with the reading minister at the time of the stuart national. Chris faithfully the online advertising market in this country with about nine hundred twenty million dollars and we know that about fifty six percent today that is from offshore company so we understand the ribbons. We just not clear on the prophets. But it's why it's it's such a low level. I mean we're only talking about two or three percent and that'll be fleeced. The discussion document as opposed you. Coat protects right for bricks and mortar companies based here between the and i need that Regulation was coming because very often countries Australia with the cycle. Google tech's spending budget speech. The first delivered by nutrition scott morrison contained descendants. Everyone has to pay the official tex especially large corporates and multinationals. The uk france and others were starting to crack down. The french parliament has passed legislation imposing a three percent tax on internet and technology companies like google facebook and amazon lake did us a pledge to book all arriving either they made a new zealand to new zealand. And i knew as. I am. Google customer on an evil when i bought Google apps each month was chaz toy. Am subsidiary in ireland of singapore. So that would pushing that revenue offshore to subsidiaries and countries that Had lower takes right accident with twenty seats. Arlanda twelve and a half percent but there's also complicated oppressions cycle double touch double wyrsch with. Am can book revenue from catchy new zealand's and to two subsidiary nyland's pay money to a subsidiary and then they the lens which passed by two. I irish owned subsidiary. In some way immediate with my smart takes how this all sort of stuff which found about wrong them giggle sits. You know we're going to be straight up or even you might. A new zealand will be new zealand so For the two thousand nineteen financial year revenue that they bought a new zealand In christ from around seventeen million to around fifty six million stoke seem to lie but What they did was a an house fee that they charge the us parent which essentially called alphabet and the year before vets fair had been eighty six million for hula services that the us prn pie to them and then for two thousand nineteen that's are suddenly jumped to five hundred eleven million which just steiber half a billion dollars which they said was neat they revenue so they didn't count it as part of the The taxable amount so they effectively they hit Book reading eating new zealand but they said that the charges the in house civis face from the us parents suddenly jumped from eighty six million to five hundred million so the the poll of reading it was taxable was actually very similar. I can turn the they paid around two and a half million takes pedal still has the operation around below hypothetical example. Time say the company. That makes podcast. You had ten thousand subscribers in new zealand. They will pay two hundred bucks a year. Sar taken two million bucks a year and ribbon but had costs be dispute studio. Bahn you microphones. Pay your long-suffering audio engineer. Keep the lights on you. End up spending a million bucks. Sorry your profit for the year is a million bucks when the taxman comes you. Pay twenty eight percents to attribute grand right wrong. They million dollars is just the underlying profit because the thing is you hit this parent company in australia and you had to pay them nine hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred ninety nine dollars for advice services marketing stuff so i actually go neat. Profit was one dollars. He's you twenty. So i sit I asked them what. What's this huge payment. He'll us parents. And i said well we incur must've l. expenses in the face we tell you must've al iron. Tv we must have a corporate team there and their operations in the us to create the product which they sell in that senate. Fair and africa's google my take companies operates than i asked. Why did it chump. From eighty six million to five hundred and eleven million and the age is closed. Five hundred and seventeen million and they say it. It's how new operating model knows. Three would quite was as much detail was full. Coming new operating model a stretch they were fully within the The tax laws and we can construct replete with the new zealand government. A twenty sixteen analysis of twenty multinational was tax payments by the here. Nepal's suggested that if the local branches were as profitable as the parent company's the country was missing out on half a billion dollars in tax every year which raises. The question is what google has done. Legal i think it is talking to a Messy academic coup is an expert. An tax law victoria cannot ever. She said that there's no doubt they Within the law but that perhaps indicates that the The few handful of technical changes that we introduced in two thousand nine hundred two thousand nineteen have helping enough not being robust enough so maybe we could look to other countries for inspiration in australia. Capri go industries what they call the debated prophets takes so what's popularly known as the google techs so they said that if a multi national in the criteria by clayton described big tech companies if i moved revenue offshore Doing a contrived raisins rather than genuine business purposes. Then that have to pay a penalty tax rate of forty percent. It's basically where largely tech companies multinationals shift a whole bunch of their prophets overseas through licensing agreement intellectual property licensing and things like that where they pay big phase from side their australian or new zealand or uk subsidiaries two subsidiaries based in tax havens For intellectual property. That apparently comes from those tax. I evans but of course it probably comes from san francisco but that i really want to pay the tax there either and this is intended to put a forty percent tax on any prophets shifted overseas like that and given the australian corporate tax rate is currently thirty percent and slighted to fall to twenty five percent. Over the next decade. that's a fairly big disincentive for trying. It on and into symbol. They reached a settlement. Google that saw google pay. I think was a four hundred. Ninety eight million in payments to the strain takes office engine giant said. The move would resolve a long-standing dispute and provide certainty in relation to future tax treatment. It's big win. Mind you for the australian government with almost a third of big corporations. They're avoiding all tax payments and. That's what the australian tax office is saying. This supplement now makes up almost eight hundred and sixty million dollars that the hbo has collected from other tech giants. Thank lose facebook microsoft. An apple the being figuring out what a contrived reasons figuring out how much revenue. They're actually making the cost of policing and enforcement and they did. A australian takes office in the order of tens of millions. More to enforce it so was quite substantial and the us we saw president trump. Who's in power at the time. Not always afraid to take. But he didn't like to say foreign governments getting a slice of the the us multinationals tax so he basically city didn't want companies to have their own sort of local efforts to to grab takes from the take companies and he was basically just stopped doing it because i'm donald trump but they had Joe biden and he's taken a more. Your approach. Wealthy nations have agreed on a global minimum corporate tax rate of fifteen percent deal aims to prevent countries cetin artificially low taxes to attract investment especially from high tech companies. Finance ministers from the g twenty member countries came together in venice including china. The us and germany. The group represents the world's largest economies and it now has a common goal to set a minimum tax rates for companies of at least fifteen percent the post pandemic world must be fairer especially with regard to international taxation for too long there has been a global race to the bottom in corporate taxes will take them fifteen percent but all the Countries with i do business can have a a little slice of that on the proviso that you Drop proposals such as digital services takes which is something that New zealand has been looking at since about two thousand nineteen june. Two thousand nine hundred fish proposed we even administer shoot. Nash has released the digital service tax discussion document this afternoon which is now open to consultation. The platforms affected would be companies like uber facebook youtube instagram and airbnb. What is digital services. Take this is something france to one of these derived so matisse nineteen up in this looking at this problem and one of the things that was proposed was just a flights three percents Takes on whatever rainy. Big take company. Might here saturday at five hundred million that you're talking about it would just take two to three percent of that five hundred million and revenue and that will be biden's tax have been three percent between six percent. Those of mulling options. The complication will be that google sign l. new zealand rayvey wasn't in the order of five hundred fifty million. It was around forty three million last year because we had this huge internal charge for may use parents. And we don't count that as part of raving ye so would still fights over what counts as revenue here. This is quite a naive question. But why do they go so far out of the white and minimize the amount of takes that they pay any company. That's you know it's sort of a responsibility thing. This is capitalism. Well we're looking at. I mean the biggest companies in the us to be oil companies the car companies now the top tina's dominated by big tech companies apple misery at the top Amazon microsoft seeking than food facebook in the top ten. So these are all the The biggest companies in their publicly listed they'll have shareholders who who want to maximize profit. Nee just doing what they can stay just would say. They have a choosy to to make a maximum profit for the shareholders which is doing under the the current global. Tech's arrangements leads to a bit about this idea the fifteen What it would be an effective. A fifteen percent takes right on prophets made and all countries around the world. Yeah it's pretty simple elegant. Yep in theory and then the us would just say well. Google modified one percents of its. You'll country so you can have one. Percent of whatever with tycoon is tax when we've takes fifteen percent of its profits and us just looking at the percentages forum. Last year we new zealand captain for something like zero point. Two percent of google's would ride proven huge sense ridiculously low but because I hit my one hundred ninety. Two billion and i Forty one billion dollar profit. I mean we could still have gotten in the order. Single-digit millions kits down to two tiny slices. Cy i mean at the end of the day This year google. Who's gonna pay around two and a half million and Takes least might so. We're just going to be almost the same region again. I think it's not that if we had digital services tax that would bring in around sixteen million from from google. so that would be meaningful amount of money. But i tell you still waste reminded that if we industry to digital services takes three percent on by take companies which tony young thirty twenty million a year so it's not not really huge the bomb though isn't it yeah. So what is the resistance to doing something like that is the complexity of introducing that context. Is it the potential pushback from these companies. Yeah i i think it's pushed back. They argue that the new zealand economy benefit hugely from the technology. That papering thumbing if google did say withdraw from new zealand from for any reason then We switch to different email. We could switch banging instead of google. Whatever sauce it's chase. It's not like hell economy would necesssarily Collapse iq. I'm mike s. more efficient and sydney. I make some of al politicians a lot more efficient digital advertising these days just to get to a diverse quips in. So you know. We're not saying that this is the wrong thing to do. What did deliver -tising is bad. It's nothing anyway shaikh before but what we are saying is if you're a company that hasn't got a payments establishment here and sort of tax rates for bricks and mortar but you are earning Ribbon you should be paying tax on that. A lot of politicians around the world nail they They used twitter and especially facebook as a way to reach fighters and unmediated fashion. If you have a live press conference parental big events. The runner watch your. You'll face ten minutes. Live london three facebook or other media. Who have to do live streams because of his face to carry it live to to compete in the for honorable stick around for questions or analysis. Light us. I think a lot of Politicians addicted to social media and possibly that factors into the decisions when when you take companies threatened to leave a country or severely restrict what what features they offer. You don't seem to have much hype. That a solution will be struck in the short to mid to him. That it'll just be sort of a bit of pontificating and maybe there will be some ideas that had thrown up but they never really get past the steep steep connecting them. I think we will eventually leach toward something close to the. Oac's idea of universal cortex all universally coordinated measures. Perhaps biden's idea the thing to saints global minimum corporate takes right that we all share as to how unilateral actions. But that's kind of tight years. I mean the we. Some politicians as we've seen in france australia who go a lot more on the front foot and i might get things done faster. Probably the biggest chance. It's things that action happen faster as one of the take companies just pushes things too far when they tried to block. News has banned australians from sharing viewing any local news content on its platform. The drastic move follows. The federal government proposed legislation that would force companies like facebook and google to pay for the content. They share on the sides. Probably misteps take would be the fastest thing to accelerate it otherwise. I think it's been since two thousand thirteen so it's probably going to be just as long again till we say action. Otherwise it's an interesting point. Actually econo- kinda gets into a christian of like f f these big companies did start paying the quote unquote fee issue. We the that was take the microscope off some elements off those business models. I mean you read and you hear a lot about for example. The in some cases horrifying labor conditions of amazon workers. Maybe if a company like amazon is paying hundreds of millions of dollars every year there is least lisa the gliac on those elements of its business model. I mean it's possible though spain Oversee huge amounts price about Pine conditions lower down the food. Chain a big take companies ramos. Almost people employs directly in with others. Sometimes it's contractors and china might not sidley four short of Sort of weston. A rights of value and things like pollution and Younger people waking and so forth and jeff bezos has might noises recently about how he might be. Wouldn't mind pined more tanks all we'll just have to say with that's Pr or something. He might actually support substantial political. Change over the thing is these are real. Global companies are more powerful than most sovereign nations and without a clear plan and kliot tomlin. It's likely the status quo will march on today. I'm you donovan. The detail is brought to you by newsroom. Dot com dot in in my possible by our insead and insomnia unlike out medical example. The detail is free and you can download us to your mobile find everyday on any podcast platform. If you want to get in touch you can email us the detail. Our insead dot co dotting zied alexi. Russell produced today's episode. And jeremy ansel engineer in thanks to chris keel mateo woah.

new zealand google facebook Janet yellen chris keel ed ted us cahaney Arlanda wyrsch nyland france
Fun Fengshui Friday: How Can I Bring Good Energy to Me using Feng Shui

Live Your Dreams Awake Podcast

16:56 min | 1 year ago

Fun Fengshui Friday: How Can I Bring Good Energy to Me using Feng Shui

"Hi there and welcome back to the live. Your Dreams Awake podcast a show for powerhouse women who wanted to raigmore wildly live more vibrantly. Give generously brought to you by the Parachute Academy with your host Patricia Logan, author coach folks. WAY expert intuitive. Healer Shaman, an passionate female entrepreneur, so look at this like genius in your ear. Inspiring you to live your dreams now. Now for today's session I am going to be answering the question. How can I bring good energy to me so? How can I bring good energy to me? Yes, this is an amazing question I accidentally love it because we can use folks way to bring good energy view so right now whatever you're doing or whatever is going in your life is so so so so possible to call in more energy call in more positive energy, using the power of your house and for me. Your home is like one of the most untapped resources that you can. Can have yes, absolutely totally untapped, so imagine you're doing all the personal development all the inner work you've been doing lots of healing in lots of different heating sessions and hearing lots of limiting beliefs and doing all of that, and as you do all of that. Yes, you're making progress. Things are changing. You're starting to feel different on the inside buzz. If you're going home to a house that is not supporting that that is not an. Aligned with that. It is literally holding you back from calling in even more good energy. So today I'm going to talk about where you start when it comes to calling in good energy using your home so I am not dismissing any of the powerful work that you've been doing when it comes to doing that. Inner Work and I'm a huge fan of, but I want to first of all just touch on APP if you haven't. Watched or listened to the episodes on. Where to start with decluttering, which is number one great way to start bringing new energy, and and the second one is. The basics how it got started. WHAT FOLKS WAY IS! An idea of that because we're going a bit further and deeper in today, so we're going to start at the place that I always tell everybody just started when it comes to folks weight, and that is your front door, so this may sound super, super basic, and sometimes people often say to me. Where do I start all? My God punctuated so complex. There's so many layers to this. I want to just invite you to realize that every little thing you do using our folks way and using that intention to create a positive impact in your life, and in your home through using your house, and your physical environment is going to make a difference every single little thing, so it all just adds up and there's so you can just keep going through the different layers of it and often times. People think that they have to. declutter before they can start funk swaying that you have to and. You have to do all of the to do all the basic stuff before you can start on the depressed stuff, and that is not true you can start at. Any phase that you'd be like okay so to start today though at the front door. Because your house is like a person and it has is ears. At has a face. It has a mouth, and that's where the energy comes in. So you want to call in more positive energy into your life. You want to make sure that you are allowing it in that you making space for it to come in, and it's easy to come in so literally. I was introduced on a podcast yesterday called living in alignment, and the lady had a complete epiphany with this, and that single example of using your front door and cleaning it and she was like Oh. My God like my front door is like really like. Dusty dirty little door. The door doesn't open. The other thing is broken, and that's like the very first thing. Your House is a mild. Your front door is the Mazda it is calling in the energy and you WANNA first of all. Make sure it gets in. Okay. So where do we start? We're going to back track from the front door and I want you to imagine that you are far away from the front door and you were driving up to your house and I want you to think about your house on the front door and does it look happy, does it? It feel happy. Does it feel inviting pseudo really really really important to realize that that's where the energy is coming in, and you want to think about? It doesn't look happy, doesn't the welcoming does a doesn't feel like inviting? Is it like I want to go to that house? And you know those of houses that are like? Wow, that's so purdy! It looks so nice. It looks so happy, and that's because there's flowers outside. It's nicely painted. There's a nice like the knocker is shiny. The door about his working. There's a welcome it's like Woohoo. You know I'm a bit more. Lambda, today with my Brighton. sparkly bright colored top today began. Some people have to see it, but it's like a all the colors of the rainbow, my pink earrings and not just looks like happy. People have commented. You look really happy today and I'm like I look at. You know so it's like what does it look like? That's really important, so the very first thing to start inviting new energy in is just stand at your front door are just before you even sounded like pink about like aesthetically. Does Your House look happy? Okay, and then come in and look around. You know there's all weeds if it's not being tended to. The UNIVER- says Oh. There's no energy getting in here. Nobody really cares they don't really want. One that good stuff flowing in here you know so really give yourself an opportunity to look at that, so we have done I. Remember consultation that we did to help a lazy sal. Her has using folks way and it was very early days, and we got to the first thing we did. We got to the gate and it was like super hard to open. It was like really squeaky, so the gate was like crying like so much these new buyers coming to this house, and first of all dacians like crying like. So it's like okay. That's kind like deter you in jar. You and the thing is often times in your house. You're like almost immune. You stop seeing these things you stop hearing those screeches that like. That's con bugsy just kind kinda. Let it go, and that is impacting your energy, but also like that flow, so we continued in that case, and the really squeaky we got in, and then all along the entrance part was like weeds, like little weeds, and and kind of like broken, and it just wasn't like inviting. You know and we got to the front door the. The front door had cracks on it and I always think about this when you often if you go to a restaurant, and you see a restaurant and use the toilet and the toilet is dirty. Honestly your immediate reaction is the kitchen must be filthy dirty like because you see something so like when you see something like that, you're like all this whole crack like. Are the walls. Is the house cracks like that's what you're seeing. So giving yourself an opportunity to remember like what you're seeing and every day is impacting your energy. It's impacting what's going on? So. Give yourself a chance to spruce it up. Just clean, lean front door given an ice spruced up I remember taking A. Renting a room for my therapy practice. And I took this beautiful route this beautiful room in this lovely house and I the woman. Of the front entrance, because it was not that inviting, and there was no welcome Mat and the knocker, and the and the letterbox were all like really like, just still had been like left for years and known at every anything with them, so watch it I. DO I said can I pimp this up obeys all my God like I- Baraza owed it all out on had a spy. She said you're never gonNA clean. Clean I was like watch this space brass Oden, all up at the number of shiny, because it was going to be impacting me and my business, so it was all super shiny, also beautiful, and it was. It was really nice. I have to say I do, and they all said it, and they said everyone of their clients, because it was a place with lots of different holistic practice. Who Practitioners all commented? Wow, you're. Grace. Brosseau, welcome out of some flowers, like it was more welcoming, so the next thing, my look at that particular instance of that house. When you open, the front door was a giant mirror facing you and that's going to repel the energy coming in, so you done this effort, you broil beautiful energy, and and when we think about energy can think of one of these. Fuzzy things like is like not real or tangible, but. Is. You. Just have to turn off all of that from the past anything you've heard in the past and just like focus on what we do inside the program, and that's where we got the results. Okay, so I, always say just do mind all that other stuff, the. Don't worry. We're going to do rice here so. Another thing a people ask the often have asked, and I've had as Sarah asked me this and about using your back door so traditionally in Ireland am I know in lots of countries. They use the back door now. If you don't use the front door first of all, if it's not a habit of yours star making opening the front door once today a habit you know my has in Ireland my parents house when I go back there, it's so funny my. My mom uses the front door always when I'm home and I know that she does use it like every day she opens it now, but they traditionally is the back door and I was like no use door, so it's really about the energy. You're feeding house, so if you don't use your front door it starving. Starving people is not a healthy thing. Starving House is not healthy. The energy comes in the House has been has been built in this Pacific Way with this specific energy, and it's coming in, so it's important that you bring that energy in okay in through your front door. Now the very next thing so the back door so if you don't if you don't use your front door started using it so I had a client. Message, me the other day. Because she's planning on building a new house and she wanted me to give her. Some do's and don'ts around building new houses and things that they plan out and plot. And I know that it's in the countryside. Arlanda and the very first thing I said to her I was just like. If you're designing this house from scratch, make sure you are using the front door and you make like that. You'RE GONNA use the front door and if you have to design that, you put a mudge room. Like. When you walk in, and you have a room like that, everyone puts their. You're building from scratch like have so much space to play with and so much, and that's where it gets fun like at the very beginning. Way We work with every house with what you've got? But that instance I said look plan to use your front door and put something like a little room where you can put everything in, and it just goes straight there. Close the door, and that's it in an. That was a really important thing. For her to for me to know with her, because I knew it was going to be farm how it'll be in the country, they'll be near the farm. And just. You alleviate that so that's like you know, and that's again. Folks Way from a perspective of like starting from scratch scratch it with the Pencil and paper, and when we move into the energy of using an existing has we'll look alike. What what can you do like? If you do use your backdoor Rowsley, just open at once a day. Bring the energy in cheer up the House. It'll feel that are and I've had clients. Come back to me and say the things have changed just by using their front door that they felt way better from just from that alone, so that's going to be really good. Now when you keep using that space, it can be. Yes, that's really where I wanted to talk about. Today was using that energy at the front door and again. Make sure your door opens fully so when we're looking at folks way. We want to do this little friction point, and like this kind of like friction like wherever there's friction, so that's going to create this action in your house. Struggled to get in. You know if the lamp doesn't work in the porch. Light doesn't work. It's not luminated again that friction point of like the door is open. It can mean a struggle in life as well so a struggle getting in a struggle getting out, you want it to be super super easy, so that's a bit of oil, you know these are all subtle little tweaks around your house that you can do to really start to call in more good energy, so I hope this was useful for you today. Please share with me in the group. Why do you intend to around your entrance how you're going to pull that and? And and even some Aha moments that you had like maybe just as you think about it, and as you look at Your House, and you look at the front, and it doesn't look happy you know like what could you bring into cheered up because if you don't feel that energy at it can be really really depleting and I've had this experience with doing consultation has a few years ago, and I arrived to the house and to the front door, and there was like cobwebs. The welcome sign was broken the plants. The door were all dead. And interestingly enough wh. The commentary have been going on for them had been very stuck a lot of illness. I'm basically their prosperity area, which is another whole whole thing I can talk about. Your front door opens their front door. Actually opened it to their prosperity area, so there was no energy coming in, but their prosperity area was literally Salen stagnant and nothing happening and no energy allowing into it, because that's where the front door was, nothing was being brought in, and just seeing it, and like now that beautiful plans to the front door they repainted it, and it looks beautiful and it's. They started using the front door. So giving yourself the opportunity to actually think about it that space and pimp it up a little bit, and come back and share share in facebook group. Share some photos of like your before and after photos. I would love love love love to see them because this is a powerful. Work just at the very beginning of your journey with folks ray now. If you have any questions, I will pump I will submit I. Will. You'll see the link in the show notes below four submission. Your questions I'm going to die through every Thursday. I'll be recording it in my facebook group, and then into my funkaway Friday on the podcast. So if you're listening to the PODCAST, you can go to the show name and find the link, but if you're thinking the group, you can find the link and submit questions and I will be doing them and each day I'll just each week. I'll pick something little bit different. What has been asked of me? So this is one that was asked today. And here's to calling in lots and lots of positive energy into your home, so and what I also wanted to let you know. Is that next Thursday? I'm going to be doing a very special master class and that is going to be how to turn your house into a powerhouse. The boot I can't wait for it, so the details are going to be below. And if you are interested, you can go to Patricia Loman. DOT, com forward slash unlock. And we'll be unlucky. Maiden energy of your home to. Turn it into a powerhouse, so that's going to be an amazing class where we'll dive deeper into the fundamentals of functionally and into really some of the information that most people most bunker experts don't tell people about auct- weight is and how it could literally be sabotaging your bank account and your happiness. Seriously, this is. Such powerful powerful information, and when you half those are and realization about the impact of your house on your life, and your energy on your bank account on everything you're relationships. It really really does make a huge difference because that alone is going to support you, so you can go to find it at Trajan dot com slash unlock, and I will see you on the masterclass Thursday an amazing day. Thank you for being here and. We will see all soon at pleased to share in the group if you've added comments are. Moments I'd love to see your photos on a Ha moments that you've me a question for me. I will be answering every week. So your questions into the duck for me. Thank you bye.

Starving House facebook Ireland Parachute Academy Patricia Logan Salen Patricia Loman UNIVER Oden Baraza DOT Arlanda Sarah
Ep. 50 Alliance RV

Beyond the Wheel

38:21 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 50 Alliance RV

"This episode is brought to you by battle born batteries, the best name and the RV marine industry. These lithium batteries are designed and assembled in the USA backed by a ten year warranty the best solution for your battery anxiety, so go check them out at battle. Born batteries dot com whether you're adventure is on the road on the water or off the grid battle born batteries. Keep you out there longer. I everyone. This is Kenny and I am so excited to announce that snap PAT has become a sponsor for the show. It means so much to us to have their. Their support I purchased not pads for our over two years ago and I can honestly say if something happened to them today I would replace them by tomorrow. They have saved my back and set up time by not needing to crawl underneath our Class A to set up blocks under our Jack stands. They truly make setting up our snap for me. They reduced by brain and the fifth wheel took fifteen minutes to install and never come off. Snap pads also add a little something extra to the appearance of the Jacks. Go check them out at RV. SNAP PAD DOT COM. You're listening to beyond the wheel, a podcast about the people ideas that drive the RV community. Hi Everyone. This episode is special for a few reasons. The is that it was recommended by listener Kenyon. I really enjoy getting suggestions from the listeners on topics that they would like for us to discuss. The second reason is that this is our fiftieth episode. We really enjoy talking to the guests in reading feedback from the listeners. Lastly in this episode we are interviewing a brand new RV manufacturer alliance RV. Colleague Brady is going to tell us all about the process of starting a new RV company, and what area of the RV market they are going to focus on, so get ready for an enjoyable episode high goalie. Thanks for joining us today. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at Alliance Rv? Bernie. Thanks me on the PODCAST. I am forty years old. Ben In the RV industry pretty much. My whole life born and raised here in Elkhart Indiana. The RV capital of the world went to the University of Notre. Dame, over in South Indiana after graduating from the university notre dame went to Chicago for a few years, and spent a little bit of time in public accounting or coming back into L. Cards. Or started in two thousand four heartland, RV and the very first year of inception of Arlanda business. Continues at heartland into two thousand and nineteen was at that point. That's a my brother, Ryan. I left our roles early to start. A new business lines are eight, so that's on the married. Four children and so my role here is one of the cofounders brother Ryan. Also, one of the owners as well. What makes you leave a position with what I consider a major manufacturer land and start your own company well. It's a really good question and I think that's of course has to offer, but the thing is is. Nothing negative to say about heartland, but it was. A certain size and it's hard to affect change. It's hard to be quick. It's hard to beat Nimble. Always, give great customer service now. I'm not I don't think about. We Thought That, there's been so much consolidation in the industry right? There's really got. A couple of really big layers and forest river. That if you look at the industry on this on the tramples. Independent really independent roosters from. Wills all the way down to entry level travel for aiming. A. You might get behind. To do the whole line up, you don't have anybody that's truly independent privately-owned so. Unique. In, the cafeteria we thought we could be. We do something that would really change in history. Of. A. Really, great. Experience, so you guys are doing fifth-wheels and and the travel trailers. Yes, so in the startup situation right now we launched with the high end fifth wheel, and that wheel is called. A pair is called paradigm. As the brand paradigm. Product is targeted to that fulltime it the whole time use product. It's for that. Guy That's working on the road that maybe want something that's. A little bit nicer what we did early on in our up you know we it in. At the end of Q., one of two thousand nineteen, we really took all all last summer all last. All just a really kind do product research not for us I've been in the industry for a long time and know a lot about product, but in the day we really want to make sure we were building toward the end. Consumer was wanting and some of the common pain points that they. They were seeing. How could we address those potential eight points while also building a really good looking product, and so we set out in the first six months is all we did was kind of crowd source. We launched a facebook page called the Alliance for crew, which is now out to almost five thousand people on that page and that facebook page there is I would say three quarters. Quarters of the people in that age are actual owners and I would encourage you guys to check it out. Alliance RV grew, and you'll see all sorts of comments. All sorts of feedback that we get from people that are using fifth-wheels day in and day out that really that they kind of drove out our product ID in fact decisions to get to what we came out with and what? What we launched at the very beginning of this year, and so that's kind of where we are right now and so the first party we came out with the call, the paradigm and that product with made it into nineteen different retail RV shows in January February and early March so we got excellent exposure. We had thousands and thousands of customers coming through these products whether it be an. and. Salt, Lake, city, RV show or the Tampa super show. We were in Houston. We were in Dallas. We were in the morning. We were in I'm Pittsburgh's. We were in the Syracuse, so we were in a lottery. Really shows that really. We were Austin. SAN ANTONIO We were in a lot of great shows that allow us to get great ms ability. And what we were! We're finding out. Is that as comfort coming through? They were pointing out things that they really liked. That hadn't been addressed in some the other products in the marketplace for that. So, how much did you actually have to spend on the design? Of The of the paradigm that was sounded, and they took a little longer than we anticipated. But but that's okay, because if you really want to be a game changer and really do something to set yourself apart from the normal products out there, it takes some time, so he's worked on our product plan starting in late June and really didn't finish our first fifth wheel until December. Early December, so it took us a while we maybe November, but it was. A lot of products that took a lot of time. Is Is the paradigm in. Dealers right now. Can people go and see it in person at a dealer? Yes, they can, so we have about a hundred and ten locations of dealers on. There's plenty of product that's applauding, but we're still getting product out, but it's. Kind of awesome to see and we got. Conception. I consider that some of the best the in the industry for the come on board with us I think it's really smart that you guys started the facebook. I and started to collect information about what people would want in their their fifth wheel I i. Bet you that who came up with that idea and I commend them for that because I think that's a great way to start. Well. I think it is you're right and the good news. We got good group of guys on our team that we all had connections 'cause I came from heartland. We guys on our team that came for other companies and Kinda, collectively, we were able to reach out to our network to connect with product owners known in the past, and all these people and you know array share in the information about us, and so more and more people joined, and you're right. It really kind of really. Helped US early on I must say I agree. That was a big thing for us getting that feedback early on and what we were doing as we were building our first few units first few Bentley all. We were able to take pictures and post online on facebook group and get that instant feedback. We were able to quickly turn a dying before we officially launched it. Yeah I looked at your page where you have your SORTA leadership team or your management team on there and there's a lot of. Experience even though you're a new company, the people aren't new to the industry. There's a lot of experience there. There was a lot of experience i. Have you know for. A lot of different areas. In really nice as they came from a lot of. Extreme. Each heartland grease. JAYCO. Pretty. Good at. What we're doing here the lines. And so, is there one floor plan? Fifth Wheel Available Right now is the paradigm one floor plan or are there? Multiple floor plans the error in production of five different floor right now. Well are all those all five of them. You had mentioned earlier that it was Kinda targeted through the full-timer. Are All five of them targeted? fulltime okay. So, we have a a rear kitchen or plan. We have a rear Dan floor plan. And then we have. Three different rear living models one. That's thirty five feet. One is thirty eight feet, and then once forty feet so I kind of small medium and large size wise. and. That's really in the sweet spot of the customer. They're looking for right now in that. Segment! The Rear Dan I haven't. Isn't elevated. It's an elevated Rear Dan. Yeah, it's the three sixty five already. It's a nice. It's a cool floor vinyl. Yeah, I'M GONNA. Have to look at that one that I started in A. Cyclone a big forty four foot RV, and the one thing that we wish we could have done after we got rid of our toys partway in was actually make a living area and the back. Instead of having that garage so having that Rear Dan. I think is is something. I always wanted when I had that heartland cyclone. So that's pretty cool. Is the. All those solo cyclones other a lot of functionality to the extra ruined the bag at the ground. Storage Capabilities Certainly Nice. Yeah, so I am going to have to definitely check out that rear Dan model because that's Berry. That interests me a lot interested in. How can you say are? Tell us what features in the paradigm line that you're most proud of. Sherp the air. Conditioning system is something. We kind of looked at and we took a fresh. Look at what we're doing there as we've got three A. C. Standard, which some guys do. That's not necessarily unique, but most guys rolling to as. We have three standard, which is better bigger than our competition, but the other thing that we're doing on the AC side of things is or doing a direct dump AC. Versus running docks throughout the The RB and what we're finding out early on as customers are using these in the heat of Texas or Florida or Arizona. Is that we're able to have much more cool efficient RV than the other products out there. And the reason we're doing that by eliminating those dogs your to. Three percent more efficient. You can think about dot four here and you're sending all this cool air into a hat antics on day. It's got to go through that hot attic. You lose cool before comes into the RV. Ask Docks you know, shake loose overcome traveling down the road. In collapse over time, and can be an issue what service or archer warranty, and so we're finding. That's one of the heated front. Shooters went customers on Tonko that we've upgraded the of the furnace system. We've got forty two thousand BTU for us with a fireplace. It puts out five thousand to use of each, so the those items are really kind of separating US everything about the product cusp been raven about his our shower. We've got a sixty inch or oriented shower in most MOMS with a with A. Really Cool. Shoes. Would they pulled down. Seek seep, which been great so that's been getting a great reviews. Some of the other things over saw. Assault assault. When actually got our criticism your centered? Toilet Mike up my husband goes to the bathroom. The middle that clangs down wakes me up and. Put us all closed toilet small thing, but it's actually something that people been raving about. Dim of light switches that with flush mount canned residential canned lights versus lights Kinda. Let are like Oh radius. Hang Down So. We've done some things with the oven. We have a big huge three point. Seven cubic foot and insignia on C. usually put all a Turkey in there and cook cooking, so those things have separated us on that side of things, and then I'm trying to think on the The big thing that we heard is running year. So do you think about running year a lot of times? You'll have guys that The tires aren't sufficient enough. For the competitive. Timers though these things up, and so we went to based on some feedback we are. We want the heavy duty tire that's rated at forty four hundred miles. Allsteel G. rated tire on our super-g tire. And then we added on the on the league spring hangers on the leave springs We went to a four thousand pound leaf springs so increase that rating from thirty five hundred pounds to four thousand pounds. And then on the hangers that are on the for the accident we put a Bieb recognized for additional support, so those that running year, the AC and heating. Shower those are some of the things that really the oven. Those are the things that really up stand out and then. You know things on product wise got to. We did some things though help on his interior luck of a product that China they look pretty good so those are some of the things on the product side that. kind of helped us and. I think you're hitting some good points right there, though for the full-timer with the bathroom and the kitchen and you're talking about the oven, because that's what makes the RV feel more like home when you can have a comfortable bathroom shower when you have a kitchen. That's very functional. Is it more of that home? Feeling than a vehicle feelings? That I think that's great. Yep, exactly, that's what we're going for their down. Those guys that are going for longer at time we have the comforts of home in an Rv so what what about as far as scaling to size so your your your new company? How do you guys go? How do you know how many employees the higher right off the bat? How do you know how many to build? How how does that work? Are you get a list from dealers and say hey, we're going to want this much. Can you guys produce that or do you or is it the other way around? You? Guys say we can produce this much now. We gotta find people to buy it. How which way does that go you know in some? It's usually. Our production is going to be driven by the. The dealers and the retail consumer, so we are now running a six. RV's per day six paradigm physicals per day, so we've been able to get to a reasonable style, nothing crazy as far as production rates, but as been driven by both the dealer in the retail, so the dealers and we've been getting our dealers and retail selling products. We've probably got our productions slobs right now. I'd say about twenty percent retail soul, so the stuff is coming on line right now. Actually has customer names on it, and that's an or doing. That we're building where we put a you know like a sheet of paper on each one of the hitches, and it says this RV, being built for the Jones family, and as it goes down each station of our production line each one of the group. Will sign off on age, and we'll stick that into the end of the packet, usually one of the guys from the executive team or or multiple from the. Aimal, sign off on that piece of paper's while on your question about the number of employees. As we've flexed up and of do our increased race. That's only serve bring more people on or currently at about one hundred and twenty employees here at this time egg. It's this big to me anyway. Yeah, you know building a six days per day takes a lot of. Manpower and a lot of coordination. But yeah fairly vague, but at the end. The, Grand Scheme of things quite small, okay, compared to the other guys out there. And so what you know, there's a lot of like you indicated earlier, the two big ones, thor and forest river, and then you have winnebago. You have northwood manufacturing some other small manufacturers. How tough is it to break into that market? Not Easy, certainly not easy. It goes to the experience factor to. We've got a good network of people that we know in the end the dealer community we've got a good network of people that we know on the supplier community, and then the other thing that helps us as we're right in the heart here part of Elkhart, Indiana campus is off a seventeen, just south of the are hall of fame. and. We're GONNA weeks or going to. Attract talent. It's there they're all. Right around us, and the suppliers are all right around us, so that's kind of how we came up with the name of lions is we want to be in alliance with not only the dealers, but the retail consumer alliance with vendors working with we want to be an alliance with our employees, and then also the community of L. Car, and so that's how it goes. We thought through this and but through how? This thing. On term or You know. We wanted to be right in the heart Elkhart to make to make it work. Because you're right, it's not it's still called the breakthrough. We're still or still early, right? We're not even through one ear production yet and so we have Or still working hard to make sure that we you know. Get off the ground. I mean it sounds like what you're doing as far as quality and and deciding what goes actually what? The RV actually is is. One Way to get known in the industry so I was just wondering if there was you know I asked the question because. It seems like a very competitive market. So the changes that you're making that that you highlighted before is one thing, but I was just wondering how tough it was. You know otherwise to break into such a competitive market it is. It's very difficult. That's why it you gotTA. You GotTa do things. That stand out and wanted to do things that other the other guys that are larger that aren't maybe aren't willing to do and data and makes sense you know so. That's how it works. We're differentiating and trying to stand up to break to really truly breakthrough and we're. We're right on. We're on our way. What about appliances difficult to get maybe like the medic and nor cold, and and other appliances to work with the as far as getting the stuff that goes into the RV. We've been good there we're nor cold on our residential the RV regale uses nor cold. Working with a are residential is a is a Samsung. Yeah. It's It's been okay domestic. We use their toilets so and all those guys are you know have access to get materials pretty easily. Guys that are built, not Alec are, so we've been pretty for. Down very cool. Yeah location is is important in this instance I think. Yeah, it is and if you guys were in town, I love to give you guys a tour and show you around Oh. Yeah I'd ever want to know my. Or what about so so you guys came from different companies? Do you have any affiliation with some of those companies that left are? Are you guys working with them? In any way, or are they working with you? Do they help you? Do they try to sabotage you yeah. Well! I think in no. We're not affiliated at all again. We're independent from all those guys, so zero affiliation, the beautiful thing about Al Cardis it's it's entrepreneurial, driven out of the entrepreneurs down both of the years and in the supplier side, and the OEM side down. You know it's healthy competition at the end of the day. Young competition helps everybody that melts better and And so there there's been no sabotaging and everybody's. Fighting hard earned their earner business. So production you said really hit the ground running in. January! Yes, and then you had covid nineteen hit. Out? How did that affect your production? It did we were down for about five weeks. Yep the biggest thing is, is we? We RBI deemed RV production to be essential business, so we could have been in production oh. We had enough orders Theron, but One for the safety of our employees with everything going on, and two of the fires were not running. We, gotTa be down for. that. Period of time, so yeah, we that was that was hard. That was a difficult time. It seems like six months ago in reality was only. Forty five sixty days ago. The, definitely, if it affected us and we had to shut down for about five weeks. Okay five time yeah. Probably very long five weeks or like you said it feels like this has been going on for much longer than it actually has. Yes s you're right it is. It hasn't been on that long, but Yeah definitely. Is affected us in, so we came back into production right at the end of April, and we had all the PCP. Requirements here for the guys with face masks and face shields and or doing some. Key guys distant during the break hours. Reminding him every time we go to break, you know washing and stuff like that, so we're doing some thanks to be as careful as we possibly can. Even today right because we. It's smart. I think it's smart move. If it's definitely changed the way we go about our business. That's for sure. And have you started manufacturing any travel trailers yet or you? Still just strictly on the fifth wheels, strictly fifth wheels so this year's kind of the Year of the paradigm. If you will coming out, I am fifth wheel and we told our dealers. We're going. We had a big dealer meeting. Last September when the Open House, the annual open house goes on invited the number of dealers. It was an open invitation. We told those dealers is two thousand. Twenty will be our first product offering, which will be the fifth wheel, and then as we get into the next year's open house has happened in September. We're GONNA. Come out with a new product, which is a toy hauler. You mentioned that you have or had a cyclone. It'll be very similar I would say in price to a cycle, but we're GONNA, look at the market. With a fresh perspective and trying to figure out ways to be unique can be different to go to market and product will get launched late this year and has been down the road, a little bit and two years. You know two three, four five. We will work our way to comment out west and travel-trailers. Both the emanates trailers and aluminum siding trailers. Really both our goal, and that's our goal is. How can we be a manufacturer and have the full bragged offering? When you look at it from production stance, a travel trailer and fifth wheel they from the outside. They look very different. You WanNa goes over the bed of the truck. One gets tow behind when you're talking about production though you do, are they built relatively the same you start with the bottom frame and build up on it or a built completely different in a different manner. No. No built it essentially the same way we'll start with the frame. Bring the frame in the door and you know you get the the axles on, and then you, you work on the floor. And then he work your way down with plumbing and electrical, and then aside will go on, but yes, essentially the same, but generally speaking you don't run travel-trailers fifth-wheels down the same production line. And, so we're going to need additional production plants in order to support. travel trailers, and we don't have those today, but what worked toward building those year in the near future? Okay so then when you start the travel trailer. I guess ramping production that that'll be a big growth spurt. Then it would be yeah and I try, and as you know the transfer of bits of the bigger segments of the industry, and were volume, definitely a bigger volume area, but the nice thing I. Don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but we have in our campus here in all car. We have one hundred ten acres, so we have the ability to expand right ear, which is awesome, so you can control. Material Management Control Security. You can control the culture of the business and so. That'll be nice to have everything kind of right here on one one complex as we continue to grow time. And you had mentioned that Sean I could stop by for a tour when we're when we're in the area. Is that something that you will? Do for maybe customers or just anybody like. Will you guys set up maybe factory tour? I know for my wife and I. When we were shopping around for an RV factory towards were a big part of our shopping experience. We wanted to see how things were put together. Absolutely loved the ADS. Anybody customers come through we in fact dude tours. Okay. Anytime, will you know we're really flexible? And you know as part of the how we love it, too. We want you can. You can accommodate amion come at five PM, you. Will make sure that whenever you come through or walk giving those customers with open arms. Should they call you? I, yes, okay, yeah, like to have an appointment and a heads up senator showing up and the best way to do that is through our facebook page. The alliance are or through our website. There is a way to contact us through through our website at alliance, RV. Dot, com, so those would be the two ways to reach out and connect, and really all we needed a twenty zero were out. And think is funny at time to make sure that we got you covered. Coley one one thing that I. It's a small thing, but while I was preparing for this podcast. One thing I noticed. That is prominently accessible from your website is the owner's guide to me? That's a huge benefit to be able to go on there before I purchase. RV`er, even before I go to a dealer to get on there and look at that owner's guide and see what everything is. I don't know if you guys did that on purpose or if that was. was just an accident that was on the website easily accessible to customers, potential customers. It note by design we wanted to. We were very open book Type Company. We want them to be really comfortable with what they're gonNA get after the fact with service from us. The other thing we've done and there's this hundred features Buckley together in early the title of this. Book is called hundred customers. And It's Kinda Golden. They go through. Different things that we have on our products. Yeah that's that's another great thing. Yeah I, think just a little things like that are really beneficial to customers and people looking for an RV. Just having that I think has got to give you some type of advantage because like. I went on there and I was flipping through that guide. And like you said it explains the suspension. It explains you know the type of suspension. It is how it's all put together. I thought that was. Having that? Easily viewable on the website. It it's GonNa Save the dealers. You know ten thousand questions, and you know what you're getting before. You even walk into a dealer to look at it. Exactly? What set up some links on our show notes that people can go right to the website in MBA. To See all this. there. You know you just start production and everything, but so far what has been some of the most rewarding aspects of creating the company the most rewarding hard as band? Just you know all together a group, a great team, right and and work together for emissions. It's really changed the game and and via leader in the industry and It's been an and and just creating something from scratch it's it's really rewarding, and it's not easy. It's been a lot. It's a lot of hard work. But. It's been rewarding. Me especially to see it all come together, and aside from the team aspects things that's been the most rewarding. Is Your father at all affiliated with the company on? He is not at all in the Business Day in and day out. He is a small minority investor. He is as far as activity being the business. Day In and day out he's not. Okay, so it's you and your brother are the only family members that are in it. Yes, Yup, and how is it working with your brother? Full time. You know it's been good. are going to check back in the air and I'll let you know but still. Working with family can be tough sometimes. Yeah, yeah, you're. You're right I. You know I did work for my dad heartland for it was a seven years. So far, so good right and it's against. It's a team effort in what we're doing here and. It takes a lot of guys. Young guys being general neutral neutral until the. Air Growing Business and get into where we are. Also probably difficult to turn work when you're outside of work when you're with family to of your. Family Dinners family functions. That's probably difficult. The term work off social time on I I would imagine anyway they can they can. Be. My wife will will nudge me at the dinner stop talking. To us. And if people are interested in seeing the product is their dealer locator on your website, or what's the best way for people to go check out? Dealer locator is alive and running on the websites or up to about one hundred ten locations across the United States and Canada. The Canadian dealer locator is in quite or yet. We should have updated within thirty days so yeah, pretty should be restricted the website, and then again there again if they have problems locating dealer and their area just haven't reached thinking, reach out the facebook or the website, and were very quick to respond on that same subject where you said that you could reach out and communicate with you guys for for issues. What about warranty? What type of weren't you guys offering at the moment? One year old one year warranty with a three year limited structural warranty, but our. Company motto is do the right thing if there is something that outside of a year that we feel like. Is a manufacturing issue then shortly after that one year warranty very, we're going to be pretty quick to step up. And and how and so but said the full one year warranty with the three year limited structural. That's great. And I imagine that since you guys are just starting out this service, you're not doing service on site. People are just going to the affiliated dealers for that type of work. Yes, okay, yes, Yup I. Don't Know How you knew that show why disfiguring. Since you know a smaller company, it's probably difficult to have a full service department there on site when you're really focused on production right now. Correct I will say in some situations will will have some service being on but that that would not be the norm I think as over time we would like to have something like that. Kind of a nice thing to do you had somebody that while one and one an APP some work done right at the factory. If we could offer that in the future, that would be a good thing. Yeah, on Earth. Thing that we're doing later this year at the end of August is. We're GONNA HAVE A we're. GonNa an Alliance RV rally, and that's cool. Yes, again, open them into invitation to both of you. Guys are in town at the end of August. We're having a rally. We're inviting any type of product owner so the being alliance owner. I do think we'll probably. At least half of them in alliance products at the rally, but I wanNA welcome all types of Arby's to this rally and and we look forward to getting together with the number of actual product honors at the end of the summer. A lot of fun I think you'll be surprised to see how much you learn in person from from customers to I think, it'll be experience for everybody. Bowls is we're going to get there and we're going to do factory tours. We're GONNA. Take some new inventory out there for them to look at. We're GONNA do. Just fun things like cornhole tournament. We're GONNA. HAVE WE'RE GONNA? Have banned one nine Oregon. Do Breakfast, question and answer will make. It's really interactive and. Really opened a lot of fun for the people that do join. Is Great and you guys were very quick with the social media with the facebook. Have you guys used other like what? What are some of your other marketing tools that you've tried so far from what has worked out better than others, or what do you like so far? We really focused mainly on facebook. So that's been our really. Our are focused. was bent through there, and then we haven't. We do have a youtube channel, so we have some videos affair. We'll eventually get into the INSTAGRAM and twitter and bad areas while the main focus van. facebook and then our website of course. Yeah I I can't say enough good things about your website. Like I said I just searching on it preparing for this. There's a lot of information that's found easily on your website so I. I like the way you guys. Put that together it really. Seem like you have the customer in mind when you design that, so thank you pressure on. That was the goal. Yeah, how do we make it easy for the consumer or the dealer on that site to be easy to navigate? So I think that's all of our questions. Did you have anything else? You WanNa talk about that. We might have missed that. You want to highlight anything really. No Vegas thing for me. Is The free you guys be interested in? or read the email and the discussion today and You, know I I don't again open invitation to both of you guys I. Love The show you guys around. If you're in this area, you awesome, but through the building and the and the future ideas that we have again excited about this is gone on in order to grow in the industry. Yeah and we would love to have you back on in a year or so just to sort of update us on the growth, and and how the first full year of production went so long. You definitely marked the council do the same. Let's let's get together next year. Okay, great well. Thanks so much. Thanks calling all right guys take care and thanks again. We would like to thank calling for coming on the show and given us that behind the scenes. Look of what it takes to start a new RV manufacturing company, from scratch. Certainly some big risks. They're starting a company like this, but it sounds like they have really hit the ground rolling. I think their ability to listen to. The customer is what will certainly help them with this continued success? What a great idea to set up a facebook page and be able to share photos of what they are planning to build and get that instant feedback. I also like to hear that they are building with full timers in mind, not only will you get those home? Features call we mentioned, but if it is strong enough to handle everyday use than a weekend, or should get years and years of enjoyment from an alliance RV, having their RV's and over one hundred and ten dealers, only the first year is very impressive, and we wish them the very best going forward. Be sure to check out their website. We added a link Lincoln. Our show and we look forward to having coli back next year for that UPDATE SEAN I will be back in. In two weeks with our guest list episode, which will now be called beyond the wheel drivers addition thanks to Bruce from Texas who made the suggestion, and because we chose his title, he is the winner of that micro air, easy start, thanks and thanks to everyone who participated, take care, everyone and safe travels. This episode is brought to you by battle born batteries, the best name and the RV and marine industry. These lithium batteries are designed and assembled in the USA, backed by a ten year warranty the best solution for your battery anxiety, so go check them out at battle. Born batteries DOT com.

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Episode 5: Apples and OilWhy EU Law Matters

Legally Bland

1:07:16 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 5: Apples and OilWhy EU Law Matters

"Hi alanna holly and log into the legally blonde podcast legally blonde for the Jingo onto your generous. Editing systems over episodes aren't welcome to episode five of the PODCAST. We're discussing PA before we get onto. That legally blonde is a show. Where in each episode we legal theme undiscussed legal cases from EU to environmental and everything in between. Tell us something about that team. Hopefully with the aim of sharing legal understanding and giving an insight into halo works at least where we are at which aren't in the EU funding enough. If you're a legal professional or law student you'll quickly realize we are far from experts but we are here to hopefully show you that anyone can talk about the law regardless of expertise level but we should say within our streaks comic sense formed. This is not legal advice. Legal experts out become very obvious to you. The majority of what we say their opinions and they might be that well researched but we do try very hard trying very hard. Always think he is actually not sure. Hazelwood could take legal advice. What we say I know I know we need the disclaimer. I'd be concerned wouldn't attempting to giggle advice from like what we discuss our absence. They're only ever reflect what we know and we may be wrong. And if we eric please let us know and at times we may be disclosing sensitive information but we will do our best when you ahead of time so dean. You have news this week calling. I do have legal means again. Legal News is news. That famed about law not Legal News of Mine. Personally News. This week is very relevant. Come straight from the Supreme Court so the Supreme Court has said it intends to refer Graham. Dwyer's case yes with our attention and accessing of his mobile phone Metadata to the Court of Justice of the European Union so the Grain Boyer case. This man was convicted of murder couple years ago and he never confessed on the main piece of evidence they had against him. Was this measure data from his phone showing wherever he was and where you've made calls on he appealed to the high course in December They find that. The legislation laid the state. Do this breached you and was in discrimination. Just not so. The Supreme Court sitting warfare Decided to send the case to the justice. Because it's not sure have the legislation. Ireland is nation. What it's going to be a very important case. Because it means the conviction will be overturned yet significant it could also cause i. I really liked this area but it could also basically affect like depending on what the Ej Royal Navy could affect loads of criminal investigations. Who used this piece of low and it could affect relative convicted criminal depending on hairpins because they could limited as well or they could rule that it's fine but yeah it's definitely one to keep an eye on in the in the in the courts definitely. I think it's one of those interesting cases as well where people don't maybe fully aware of the like the intricacies of the law opie convicted of murder also true so it seems crazy from a non league respective to be like. But what about the METADATA? Will you know what is meant So basically METADATA. It's also known it's weird so that's the like technical word for like the kind of computer word for it but in the Lords called traffic data. Which is really confusing. Because it's nothing to do with cargoes traffic like physical traffic. It's went web traffic. So metadata is like the data. Are Raymond your information online? So it's not just the content of any of things like anything you do online. It's like the time messages are sent the location you wear when the messages were sent. If if we're talking about messages but could also be for phone calls or anything else it's like all of that periphery information onto recorded by phone companies on by messaging services and stuff so it's really helpful for the police because they can line it up. I think in the Dwyer case I could be wrong. But they like lined up his phone like painting with Toll Bridges he was passing through the time and stuff like collected it all on. Yeah but they didn't like say half to access the content of the thin formation itself. It's actual peripheral information to us so this week we're talking the EU the European yet is if you're not gonNA know yes but I think you're going I this week holly on so a bit of Balk grade on the EU so the European Union was set up with the aim of ending frequent bloody wars between neighboring countries which combination the Second World War and. This isn't a history podcast you know e- should figure you should be able to figure out what happened in the Second World War so terrible so in nineteen fifty eight. The European Coal and steel community began to united European countries economically and it was the host up. Economic peace would mean unstability would mean. Political piece really works to agree smart idea. This expanding countries are Belgium. France GERMANY ITALY LUXEMBOURG UNDER NETHERLANDS IN THE NINETEEN FIFTIES. There was the Cold War and protests obey communist regimes and in nineteen fifty. Seven is a bit of a rebranding. The Treaty of Rome created the European Economic Community The E. C. or common records. I was paid to the first in management on. I two hundred united seventy-three along with Dan rank on the kingdom. But we know you know in Ireland as the way the constitutionists that open Ireland we are a chula system. So Jesus stace provides that international agreements have the force of law if the Iraqis determines that they should have the force law so it basically means that and can enter into all the international agreements. It wants but they only become incorporated into domestic law by legislation. If they're consistent with state law so because Ireland's Jila system there ought to be constitutional referendum to allege to become patiently. You so twenty. Nine point four point four. The Constitution States. The ironed affirms its commitment to the European Union within which the member six that year and work together to pro peace shared values in the wellbeing of peoples. You might notice that. I've been calling Spear Pena. Economic Community on their opinion union went through another rerouting not so long ago and their current treaties that applies so treaties is the European Union word for legislation. The used that apply is the TFEU which was brought in by the list of intriguing which accepted after two referendums. We did rejected and we then accepted on a second referendum. Sometimes you have to learn from your mistakes also. Sometimes you don't have a choice. But they want it to seem like you tweets. I think with what was the. You said very fascists. What else was going to do. Like we like erects issue we. Yeah we've seen likely that is touching it so what I'm talking about. More specifically with any law today is the free movement of goods. So if you remember just mere minutes ago I discussed the common Mac dish which was to create economic stability within the European Union's own and Freeman goods is essential to this so freeman goods. Means Dash across the European Union every country. Inish THERE'S NO GT free. There's no extra tariffs extra talks to important exports things between the member states so the particular attributes of the TFEU governance freedom to goods is ethical. Thirty four thirty five and thirty six. So tae-ji four prevents quantitative restrictions on imports on all measures having equivalent of X. But this basically means is in legislation to prevent imports from other European Union countries article. Thirty five most of the same over exports. It's good to have what I don't think it's ever come up in practice reading. So what would that be? What's an example? Sal would be if a country like it just it just sounds so unlikely as restrictions on exports which means that they're gonNA didn't allow their own citizens to export to other countries losing their own economy. I mean it could happen. And then very importantly are`stability six fifty six provide some justifications for prohibiting imports IRV restricting imports or exports these include public morality public policy public security the protection of health on life of items animals or plants the production of national treasuries possessing artistic historic or archaeological volume or the protection of industrial and. Commercial Property Social Provisions restrictions. Shot whoever costs you to means of arbitrary discrimination or disguise restriction on trade between member states. So that's the actual treaty text and Dick. There's a case in nineteen seventy-three called ghetto. Which expanded on this idea of measures having equivalent of actor quantitative restrictions or Macquarie ee q. Or is the accurate acronym on this basically provides as well as you can't have legislation thus all bands imports you kinda legislation that results in the fact of bemoaning unemployment. Can't you can't create a new poll essentially by like worrying at weird or something basically an example? This is an e you example to illustrate for you. Guys if we customize walk to a lot of discussion McGee Attorney General the Legislation Prohibiting Having a using contraception it was the sale of contraception but the resulted effect of this legislation was no contraception was imported. And that's the one you example I say but it is a good illustration until picture. My case starts off as it should as it should for. The Noise Statutory Instrument Secondary Legislation which we've discussed in the under maintenance the border mattress. Assuming we discussed all of that. Legislation says the statutory instrument on the Sachet Instrument is number two hundred eighty nine thousand eighty two fuels in brackets. Control the supplies brackets order. Nine hundred so this stash instrument came because an act was introduced called the fuels in brackets. Controllers Supplies Act nine hundred seventy one the nineteen seventy-one act Dan before we go any further. This is irrelevant to the narrative that I'm constructing but I believe I find spelling errors in the tax to the SASHI instrument really. Yes so I was on our starchy book. I was scrolling through reading the SASHI instrument to inform you wall of the content. I was reading. Denver's came to section four four. You can you at home listening can do this if you want. It's a big paragraph and the battles instrument not very interesting. A lot of just specifics being put into a bullish. It's towards the end of section for four days a sentence that's funding mistake. An extract is such types of such petroleum oil in that period or in the quarter. I think it should say concerned what. I'm seeing C. O. N. C. E. OR ED so concerned with the second. Oh concern I concede. That was my first. I thought okay. This is a weird. I haven't heard of because I don't know everything despite what you may think so. Agudo this and northern concerns. Not a word I then forced. This must be an error on the coding or the website on March thoughts. You Book so embarrassingly. I went looking for a higher copy of this instrument and fame and find Now this time instrument does not apply any longer but I just thought it was really weird that there is a spelling mistake. I mean yes it is but I like to think it didn't make everything you're going to say later relevant because I don't think so see I tried to look into that further than if it is a spelling mistake legislation kits fine. Well the only thing I could find is in India. They've been having real problems in terms of spelling mistake. In vegetation really your. They'd like the Hindustan Times India Today. They've couple of Irish bills Riley. They had an optional too long ago and they spelled article with the fifty two spelling mistakes and grammar areas and it didn't seem like the acquiesced and as long as you can understand it now for some context. I am a terrible Speller on. Holly is very good. Speller so I feel that we are biased opposite directions on this issue definitely. I'm like it's fine as long as the like as long as you can read it. I was okay I was. I couldn't believe my eyes. You should write to the Irish Times. I think that's the correct response to this is going to write to the tisches Fitzgerald. Our Bullshit I can reach the dietrich obey spineless Jake in starchy instrument. That hasn't avoid deaf. Twenty six it. They'll definitely get on top of the prior to really care about young into the Times. Sorry for that aside. Hot to bring an really annoyed me so the actual the actual sashi instrument which just pills in comparison in terms of interest to gonNA stay. It's a good thing. I was doing was researching. The podcast like we do every week and I just go day for narrow. It couldn't couldn't they bet there's just so upsetting like January. Say this they don't meet your Heroes Durban don't read statutory intimates to too closely dominate. We might precision than my attention to detail. Voyles me again and say the actual tax in the Sasha instrument basically ice that ever fight it's called the refinery but it's a refinery based in Whitegate in County Cork East Cork. The effect of the order is not every company that imports petroleum into the island of Ireland is required to purchase various types depending on the type of petroleum up to thirty five percent of petroleum oil or forty percent of particular types of petroleum oil There is a lot of docked just given totally different oil which were liquefied petroleum gas fuel oil whether light fuel oil medium viewed order heavy fuel oil gas oil kerosene light frigid. Matha premium gasoline regular gasoline. Act Really. They spent a long researching the different petroleum. They just missed the spelling air. I think that's justifiable. No no excuses so if you cost your mind Bach. Two minutes earlier disgust article thirty four quantitative restrictions on imports along. Are you seeing any problems with this? Is that you honey. But I sure am seeing a bit of a basically isn't right because I don't really. I don't really remember this case. It's that if a company wanted to bring oil into Ireland or Cella in Ireland. A certain amount of that oil would have to be from Irish royal yet rigs so requiring a certain amount of the oil to be from the refinery in whitegate restricts the amount of oil that has to be important because the demand for oil is famous. These not limitless barrels of oil airland. Sorry tourists this would restrict the imports avocado from other members. Yes so nice thirty. Four classic Quantitative Restriction Seems Pretty Straightforward and a company called compass oil onsite mcmullan Bros. Limited PM AOL Company Ltd and Ted Castle McCormack on company Ltd all oil salaries in Ireland took a case against the Minister for Industry. Ninety nine thousand nine hundred eighty two they it to the high course and they initially took it to court for an interlocutory injunction which is is on a short term injunction while they're figuring case being sued three s so a large portion of the High Court Judgment Actually refers to the League appearance both in determining whether they should get this injunction which isn't really relevant to the narrative Soyuz skims the shift so an interlocutory injunction is if for example. If I'm a llamas neighbor playing music she wants to take a hike as against me. What which I do very much want to do a Lotta so that case since thank you I'll take that as a lot of us to take a case because of the time delays in the legal system and just you know it takes people to do things they'll take it back. You know two or three years from case to be brought in the two or three years depending okay. That's a long time. You and your music art like hot button. Issue a fair enough so in the meantime a lot of them want me playing music related for two years so should we go for an interlock Sherie junction which basically means I have to stop until the trailers Haizhu and then you have to stop maybe forever or can I keep playing at three Am Akiba? Lana awake or so. That's a brief explanation. And there is a very detailed and lengthy read courts. If for some reason your radio decision interlocutory injunctions Lincoln the blog post and I read it but are not particularly interested actions so much for me for the injunction found out there so as I say the High Court case made the injunction but the plaintiffs were searching that this or Jerry. Sashi instrument was considered a mandatory regime regime. Which kind of like Saints Very Fascists like vibes? That's what it sounds like out of context that you have to do this thing and the plaintiffs claimed that the nice thing to order is invalid on the grounds that it's incompatible with the treaty of the vote was then the European Economic Community and secondly on the grains Dr contravened the visions of forty and forty. Three of one. Ruction Aharon interesting. I didn't know that the case what they decided. This was interesting as well. The application made the plaintiffs made relied on the provision of the Treaty of Rome. Road Heron. So kind of prioritize zeal treaty of the EU there which fused the fire further few very pun intended on intended to go ahead and use the fire of the whole agreement of which is superior the constitution or you law. Because that's been a bit of a talking point as we've discussed and all the time every ten minutes. The constitution is supreme in Ireland. Yep Boys because of the nature once we INC international legislation it does get a special place so it's not it's incorporated into custody. It's a funny one money constitution. Supreme put confusing one was interesting. I never knew that this case even had any reference to the constitution so the defendants they say yes. This is a quantitative restriction. They didn't spend waste their time acting. That wasn't both. They argued the provision was justified on the grains of Public Security which is one of the justifications listed in Article Thirty Six. So it's like there's some reasons thought it would be okay and they're gonNA try harder justifications they're saying look. We are inhibiting imports. But it's very very valid reason which is public security and interestingly public security at this time had no definitive judicial interpretation that time they actually for them. It's handy but also I just always funny when they're like okay. Throw this in. We're not going to release. That won't work forever. Renounce believe them to their devices to figure that one h so the government would going public security dodge. The maintenance of the refinery was necessary for national economic security and supporting essentially economic needs on sustaining economic opportunity ultimately just as maxine Haiku decides against Angelo Catrine Junction which in this case would have the effects thus the order would come into force immediately and the import would be restricted so basically the campus and the other companies wanted an injunction because they wanted the order to not be in place until the whole case was hurt because it would hamper their prophets. Yes basic economics because this case concerned easy law and things like security which is even defined Hundley just as Murphy Center reference to the Court of Justice and you may be wondering right debate now have an Irish court could refer questions to the court of just I was wondering that holly would you care to explain. Okay so on do under the treaty actual TS. Seven is a mechanism in which the Court of Justice of the European Union has jurisdiction to give preliminary rulings concerning interpretation of the treaties or the volusia interpretation of acts of the institutions bodies offices or agencies of the Union so basically in this case the reference for the preliminary reeling concerned the validity of such instrument in Ireland's because security concept restriction and even though visit justification it might be justifiable. Might be a good enough justification. So that's eight seven with a whole other part of the usual which means a lot of sites debts allegedly free today the institutional structure of view which. I think we can. We can stop it with the legally blonde stop and come back to was just very blunt. What's really I like it? I don't really like a big fan of the. Qa I am. I agreed is blocked. It's very bad but I like that. I wanted to legally Blonston play in Cleveland style. The only which we did a segment of the case so minister of Industry Energy apply to the high course after the preliminary ruling was made before the results was given because they wanted to amend the defense and they wanted to change dot a mandatory injunction would be given dot the plaintiffs all the oil companies would have to comply with the instrument and three D. Funny Kean Kean. J in the high course rephrase to legal skirmishes. Oh I don't think if you're taking the case don't think I'll tell you referred to a justice. Of course he wasn't referring to actual no shock cases. Yeah not like physical. I was picturing. There was no run chase quick. No Vigo's EHRICH. I'll say yeah. He did explain. The issue in case was whether the plaintiffs of the oil companies are banned to abide by the regime until the proceedings had been determined. So it's basically a continuation of the interlocutory injunction. The first hiker case and justice king the injunction lease details like costs to the trailer George so in the Mavericks are finally settled so now finally thing to the EU show it sent to the EU Korda Justice on the cases called Compass Oil Ltd and others aren't ministered for Industry and Energy and others case. Seventy two of eighty three so the citations are cases slightly. Different way easier to understand for the first year law students. When you look at the case citations makes way more sense. So the high quarter right under afraid to the chorus for privy reading under article or was then wants a seven seven. Six seven of the Treaty. Two questions on the interpretation of the schools in order to any bullet to decide when there are issues requiring imports petroleum products to purchase a certain proportion of their requirements at prices fixed by the competent minister from a state owned company which operates refinery compassionate with the tree where that's a long sentence quite amazed him so basically are forgotten into this area in the Sashi instrument as sending the toilet ought to be Borscht. It's at minimum prices for the oil and also penalties if the companies didn't comply which is not they would have to pay the price for the oil and damages to the government and the dodgers would be costing hurt by the government for not being able to sell the oil. So very serious. If you're an oil supplier so the plaintiffs contended that the to order is contrary to community law and the quantity restriction no justification the Irish government. Idea that the orator starchy instrument comes within the scope of the prohibit prohibition boss it is justified completely on the public policy and public security. So how sick. Ireland's only order finery on these nasty to maintain the country supplied petroleum products on national security. So they're kind of arguing like because we only have one oil refinery it's a public security measure because we need to be open in the case of the public security emergency new took from it was if this oil refinery closes and all these people are on employees the chaos. Willett see which would be time measure. It feels very to use an earlier measure for steep hurdle over them to cross to to prove the cases. I mean it's us. It's not a strong argument. I mean you think. Public Security think obsolete us like carnage current upon good. I like my brain went to apocalypse by. Yeah you like isolated or extreme. This doesn't seem extreme at this point on the job in reading does take on this view. An oil refinery closing is exceptionally important. Sorry an oil refinery notch closing and causing employment is exceptionally important to maintain the modern economy of Ireland. It even goes as far as to say that is a fundamental importance for countries existence saw economy but even more institutions it's essential public services and even the survival of its inhabitants depend upon them. Now there are many things keeping me. Life is an oil refinery in white gauge. Being open one of them particularly I would say I can kinda see it but like they think but also it's in nine hundred eighty three so renewable-energy not an option realistically like oil is probably very much. The main source of electricity and stuff or of like oil is very widely. Used probably more widely used than it is today possibly so maybe there is a bit more of a reason for it in the eighties. So I decided to play devil's advocate as always I went looking data. Barabbas back into the economics. Sons border this so basing different I offend an on vision of humanity in Lincoln in the blog this very illustrative graph which describes the cyclical relationship between economic activity and peace. So there's a positive correlation so on the left hand site they have a virtuous circle which is high levels of economic activity to low unemployment needs greater independence population groups which leads to higher incentive to maintain peace and harmony which then feeds back into higher levels of economic activity insolence of fourth. Then on the right side is the vicious circle which is low levels of economic activity lead to higher unemployment which leads to lower interdependence among population groups which creates lowered to maintain peace and harmony any which further lowers economic activity. I say there is a definite connection but at this point it's worth throwing thus I couldn't find numbers from the eighties but today it's still there the whitegate oil refinery spider nurse but it only it employs a hundred eighty people which doesn't seem like an often cause mass destruction of a stage BC. My thinking is that it's more if the like we need an oil refinery on our island for an emergency like thought that's more he challenges so like it's still not know exactly so it's a funny one. The accord Joseph came to the conclusion dos. The treaty must be interpreted as meaning. The national rules require all importance to purchase a certain proportion of their requirements of petroleum products from a refinery in the National Taraji Constitution. Be cured a meek. Were hiding meek. Mytalk were any E. Q. Or a measure having equivalent effect to a contract restriction. So they say with show. This style sheet Contravenes activity for boys. They go on to say not a member state which is totally or almost totally dependent on imports. For its supplies of petroleum products may rely on grades of public security within the meaning of Actual Taiji six of the treaty for the purpose of requiring importers to cover a certain proportion of their needs by purchases for refinery situation in territory up prices fixed by the competent industry. So it's the public security justification succeeds. Aren't it's the only time ever in the EU that it succeeded there have been other similar cases not to mention Fox but Samaria legal principles and arguments on its unitards. Every succeeded interesting so you might be asking what happened. Since compass oil still noperation and on their website claiming to be Ireland's favourite heating oil supplier. I can't disagree with confirm or deny whitegate order. Finally it was stated offender so funny so in the case the statement arguing we need the state-owned refinery for Public Street. So important and then they sold entertainment and one company for a hundred million euro too not to shabby it's owned by a Canadian company. Irving there was a fire there last October. And these court. Which is this article. Didn't give further details on like whether the fire calls dommage because I saw the headline fire in an oil refinery snoop way would add. I hope they're all okay. I'm heading into the mini mentioned mass destruction. I feel like an oil refinery will probably have very good fire safety protocols. It seems to be my instinct here so I mean looking on this case. Initially Daphne felt like absolutely poor freed like maybe a minor threat economy boy threat to the country's existence in public security just seems like Virgil Way to fair and her for context though White Asia refinery in wake Asian East. Cork it's a put employees one hundred and eighty people. So the idea Aria Society unraveling completely as a consequence of one hundred and eighty people being unemployed. You Deem Exaggeration I. I still think the arguments more compelling that it's less the unemployment rate shut down a more the fact that Ireland wouldn't have an inhaler US oil refinery. I see what you thought you. They were okay. Economics give economically stable. It'll kill us all so I looked into recalled than having read the whole case that in their eighty nine hundred eighty s. There is a serious economic crisis plan earned and accordingly told you the Arctic Air Claves I manage goes on here some headlines from one thousand nine hundred eighty one. Sasha at unions look to send a pair of Message to the government sixteen as workers take streets Seeking I talk station. That's particularly pertinent. Considering we've just discussed Hail Irish people very rarely protest fast onto the there is also soaring fuel. Prices inflation and a biting recession numbers Climbed over a period of eighteen months between nine hundred. Seventy nine hundred eighty one employment increased by forty six percent. So it's making a bit more sense. Oliver. It all makes way more sense when you consider the context fund that and know their headline which offends very very representative of the spirit is in the midst of this recession. A man commented. This country has gone to the dogs altogether for work. I mean nothing encapsulates. The recession more than a statement. Yeah so MARLA. The story like in light of everything I've just said it's the court of Justice was trying to achieve an objective in this case when the defense and public security looking at the political context of it. And saying just this one. Yeah look at the actual. Just the Fox put the case on the legal principles. It's all particularly strong. But when you look at the policy objectives which is we don't want this recession to turn into an all age disaster you. It's crumbling yeah I another thing. I felt deeply in this. This research is spell. Check or get a polity. Read over your work. Nineteen Ninety spellcheck might have been less efficient. But it's done today to a mutual friend who came on this expedition with me to find the hypothetical spelling air. She pointed it very correctly. Secretary Education was monitored. His point they all read. I mean I would hope if you're amending legislation anyway you can read what ends well so when someone else pointed to me. I've been discussing this nonstop with anyone. That would listen to someone else point today to me. They probably don't have just one person rising on one person proofreading. No I ended up going into like goes everywhere. Probably past the desks multiple people and I know he'd be like okay to have the prices rise is the cable. It seemed like Vice Boston. It on the face. You're very good at spotting. That kind of stuff like there is like there is scientific evidence in the English language. Like if you switch where letters arraigned in the middle of words. People pick it up very rarely most wasn't as restrained. It was just an not just missing gone. Kay I'm not going to win this. I'm passionate maybe I should get a job degraded legislature and I really hope that works for you in the age of spellcheck work. Well in that case I know the job bogus just directly copy legislation from high copy. Why didn't they practice? Because then it wouldn't be accurate to the original you'll put like say someone was GonNa if laws legislation that was so relevant important. Irish statute book was accurate so that they could try. Argue IN COURT THOUGHT THE SPELLING MISTAKE. Some have made the entire thing move on her. I mean generally the find the compass oil case good read. I'm tied up very nicely. Real bone to pick is the spelling mistakes. That's my case Viva La Revolution. And make sure you spell it correctly. I would spot record even though it's only been written for my own benefit. I'm glad to know that you're very thera- so On the frame it into goods. Thank you so much. Thank you Charlie. For that excellent analysis of the compass oil case I will also be talking about something economic today. I think it is funny. We both automatically. We decided we were doing. An episode and both automatically chose something economic because institutional is stamped legally vote. Yes but there's also like human rights and stuff. That's like another kettle of fish. Yeah so we will be coming back to the basically. What I'm trying to say is that you is more than just the economic side of the law but it is important and it is what it was founded as free so it does make sense that we both kind of got drawn to it. I so today. I'm going to be discussing the rule of state aid in law and what it is and how it helps the economically if you're not a law student or a lawyer you've probably not really heard of state aid as a concept but it can have really big financial impact on countries and companies in Ireland. Allegedly IT SAVED APPLE. Thirteen billion euro in talks not an insignificant figure. The case is currently being appealed so the figures and confirmed but it shows how massive can be in aiding companies It's against the law so my colleague mentioned the EU or the European Union was set up with the aim of peace after World War Two. They knew the best way to protect for more was through money. Basically if countries we depend on each other economically it made it harder to go to war with each other economic element of the EU is still very pertinent today. So Holly mentioned but I'll just renfrew it again. Being part of the EU means you agree to governed by laws some of these laws our regulations or treaties which like every country house to follow and somebody directives. How you integrate. The law into your own country depends on the country. But what's important? Is that some of the laws. Such as the T. F. E. U. Or the treaty on the functioning of the European Union Union have to be followed by all member states like adult times. It's the Hugh. It's kind of like a binder of all of the big laws. The countries have to follow strategic of sorts. Yes a constitution if you will. That's a good word. But they didn't want to call it a constitution because there was a bit of fear I reigned they. Eu sort of becoming a more of like a massive one country and they wanted to stay away from not image. But today we're going to be covering about one of the things covered in the TFEU which is state aid in the grand scheme of things. It seems Kinda small like it feels very irrelevant. Most of the time. It's an economic article but obviously it can have a really big economic impact so state aid when the government of a country supports a private entity this can be like by giving them money directly or per the Directorate General for competition which is like the person in charge of the Department of competition in the EU state. Aid can be in the form of any advantage conferred on a selective basis to undertakings or companies by national public authorities. So for example it could be giving one company and opportunity. No the company gets such as a loan or it could be giving specifically favourable terms in alone or could be a tax advantage. Another important thing to notice that if state aid is given to an industry as a whole it's not unlawful because it's not creating an unfair playing field it's not singling at any one company to give them an advantage but stay to one individual company and not to every other company in that same industry is unlawful. Because it's seen as giving that company and unfair advantage so this whole idea is governed by Article One seven one hundred and seven of the EU. And it says that state aid granted by member states in any form got distorts or threatens to distort competition because it favors one undertaking where production of certain goods is prohibited. So one hundred seven two sets at the exceptions which are like types of state aid data reliable. Because obviously there's going to be sometimes where government has to help certain companies such as it mentions following a natural disaster article one. Oh seven three says that. Some behaviors of state aid are okay. If a country is really economically poor and they need to promote economic development or remedy serious economic disturbances members say such as following recession. So it does set some cases one is okay but also the majority of time state aid to an individual undertaking is probably not a very good idea you might be wondering is taxation form of state aid without work so firstly. It's important to note this is from the EU competition website directly the EU does not have a direct role in taxes. That's decided by any national government who also decide hey the collected toxic spent so the EU has very much taken the stance. They've emphasized that they don't have any involvement in the collection onto the decision making around taxes. However what the e U does is oversee national talks rules in some areas particularly in relation to business and consumer policies to ensure the free flow of goods services and capital ran the EU to ensure businesses in one country. Don't have an unfair advantage. Over competitors in another country which is provision that state aid would fall under on to ensure taxes don't discriminate against consumers workers or businesses from other countries so focusing on that second region. It's clear that taxation has long held to be subject to use state aid rules so an example like a very broad example. It would be a situation where a particular company is granted a specific talk regime in one country often kind of with the intent to encourage the growth of that company in that particular country. It's clear what the negative impact is on the Common Market. In by advantage in one company it creates a disadvantage to others. It's also important to note that article. One eight hundred said the procedure behaved. The commission would investigate a claim of state aid. You don't need to know the specifics but It's there so now we've seen hey stayed largely works. We're going to talk about the specific example of apple and Airland not wanted very much not sponsoring. Are you saying that you commission would sponsor us because it just generally yeah wanted? This is a really factually confusing case is to preface so this is to the best of my abilities. But it's definitely. I've definitely like summarized it on. The economics are very complex and I don't fully understand them So because there's basically because it's very complex tax regime. They got themselves into so. The complexity of the talks regime makes it adds an extra layer of intrigue. We should say but it's important to remember. I suppose thought wanted to case about talks. The key thing is whether or not the talks was state aid. That's the big deal in one thousand nine hundred. One apple had two companies in Ireland apple sales international an apple operations Europe at the time arrangements were made between the Irish tax authorities and apple that will be taxed the normal corporation tax of twelve point. Five percent on forty million profit made in Ireland or coming through Arlington. Probably would be a better way of saying it. I'm beyond this level. All revenues went through a virtual air quotes head office which had no physical location or staff in Ireland and thus significantly lowering the talks rate. So ghosts yes ghosts. It was a ghost company well spooky. Yeah can't argue against so per Paul John. Lowenthal his a lawyer for EU Commission. He said the Irish revenue allowed to channel. Most of it's European sales through an employee less. Shell head office which was part of two group subsidiaries those two companies mentioned before based in Cork in Ireland which were non resident for tax purposes only profits allocated to Irish branches within the two subsidiaries relaxed in the space so thoughts the forty million cap that we re discussing before Patrick Smith in the Irish Times. I think gave a very good visual image of what this looked like. He said there wasn't even a brass plate in Dublin to identify apple sales international or at least the court papers do not record it. The head office of one of the largest and most profitable companies inc. in Ireland effectively had no physical presence in Ireland. It held the rights to use apple's intellectual property to sell manufacturer Apple Products Outside the Americas. But it had no premises no staff on its board met only occasionally to discuss the distribution of dividends administrative arrangements and cash management directors were fulltime executives of other apple entities. So going back to what the commission would eventually say Apple. We're essentially allowed to determine their own yearly corporation tax liability in Ireland by applying profit allocation methods endorsed by Irish revenue. The result of this the commission calculated later that of all turnover going through Ireland auto paid point zero five percent for every million euro and profit. They made at this time. They paid five hundred euro in taxes. In two thousand fifteen. This was in two thousand fourteen. This was calculated to have gone into point zero zero five percent. That's fifty euro tax per million euro made through Ireland on. It's literally I can't believe what you see I kind of in my head. It's nineteen ninety-one computers look like dustbins like their massive a wee little technology company goes to revenue. And they're like listen. Just give us a good deal. It doesn't like it probably wouldn't have turned into such a such a big kerfuffle. If apple hadn't been a successful `as they ended up being. I Disagree Sans Rotten from this state to be she from the get-go Yeah? I'm just saying it would have been a lot easier to sweep under the road. Apple had failed miserably exactly within just a blip the futures and hover boards revenues. Like okay. We'll give you a toss in two thousand thirteen. The Commission begins its investigation. Unin two thousand. Fourteen launches the official PROCEDURE UNDER ARTICLE. One eight two to investigate whether the rulings issued by Irish revenue years earlier on how they had calculated the taxable profit of the Irish branches of the two Apple Subsidiaries Hodge constituted state in two thousand sixteen. You Commission decided that Ireland didn't give legal tax benefits to apple worth up thirteen billion. The Commission stated that apple retreated in a selective way that other companies were not making this a moderate of prohibited state aid. So it wasn't that the talk set up like in its own in its existence was illegal. It was the fact that the talk set up off. Thought time in. This country was only offered to apple at this point. Article is expected to pay the thirteen billion. It owed to Ireland the problem. Arlanda like it's fine. We don't want just wondering you've no way of knowing this nice to think of it. Only walk like walk. Brand of computers. The Heaven Room you commissioner offices. Oh definitely not apple. No Way. They've apple computers. You live. I wonder why they gotTA tax rate on their loan. Their pilots living through that in nineteen ninety one zero on macbooks reason except every other departments on like tells you know white because my reaction was the government would never pay the premium apple rates. But not a then. Yeah I can see that happening. Allegedly so yeah wasn't too keen on accepting this thirteen billion owed from apple and Ireland inoperable disagreed that any money is owed at all basically they. Are they appeal? The decision are apple. Obviously because they don't want have owed thirteen billion on they've always maintained that they paid the tax code in the country. They are operating in at the time like they. They've never breached little. An Arlanda saying really arvind appeal because there is an economic reason. Why Ireland's sided with apple in this. Whether it's the correct decision or not really depends on your view of things so in two thousand seventeen. Ireland is further referred to the Court of Justice of the over failure to recover the illegal state aid to apple accounting at this point fourteen point three billion euro. I'm imagining them. Like if they have to pay the forty three billion from smacking it like in Wheel Barrows being wheeled off putting mission. Think bigger you can think like articulated lorries. If they're going to be doing cash handover they'll pay them pennies. You know like the angry casinos will money and give it to them in pennies the Youtube and Michael One cent coins forty billion or so more like you ever seen those videos online read take grains rice like one hundred days versus a million that much bigger but like a million wrists billion God. It's a lot so apple appealed the decision. It's still underway under arguments. Turn on a lot of different things so from a state perspective if they were gonNA argue it wasn't state aid they need to prove is essentially off the regime. They were given. Revenue wasn't exclusive to apple that if another company had come along and had the same conversation with revenue at the time they would've been offered a similar if not the same deal however they it doesn't appear like that's going to be the turning what they're what they're arguing no. I could be incorrect ticket very much good in that roof but it seems like are returning not on state aid on where the intellectual property was based at the time. So they're arguing that it was based in California because if it's based in Ireland all the all the talks calculated by commission is on the principal. Ip is based in our and they're like no it's not based in California making the toxoid way lifts there's also argument Erin. This talks principle called the arm's length principle which I tried researching but essentially it to talks. Principal obey when their subsidiaries of a company that are owned by the same larger company? So in this case it would be apple. Sales INTERNATIONAL INOPERABLE OPERATIONS EUROPE. You've got to companies that are interacting with each other but it's like this principle arraigned whether those companies have to act like they're part of the same company because they are owned by the same company or whether they act out an arms then because they are technically to individual companies. So they're kind of arguing about thought. I'm not totally familiar with that whole concept. So that's the extent of my knowledge on the arm's length principle but I'm currently underway. It's going through the courts at the moment but more interesting to consider because obviously we don't have a final decision of whether that will be considered state aid or not but from the commission's point of view. It's going to be hard to convince the commission that it wasn't a break a massive breach of state aid. I would think but it does seem to be turning on technicalities at this point in time so looking at the bigger picture was the apple decision. The right call was at state aid. What do we think some largely American lawyers and academics have criticized? Apple's decision or the decision by the U. Because they say firstly it unfairly targets. Multinationals don't have strong of an argument that is who the poor multi Nash Jews own but this may be more convincing of an argument. What are the other arguments argues that it's the EU can change member-state talks decisions retroactively and get toxin at a later point that like it creates regulatory and legal uncertainty? Because it means that at any point no decision. It's the you can change a national decision in an area that previously tax was not an area that you had any bruce into it creates like legal and regulatory uncertainty which is a big deal. Yeah it could. It can cause a lot of problems which I think is a reasonable and not firing human. It's better than the old portability donor for that will get you thinking you. Commission however like Margaret Vestige and the commission have noted that all countries have to do to avoid tax being retrospectively claimed is to follow state aid rules in the first place. Which doesn't seem to be too much of a requirement for multinationals and other companies to do the you would argue. It's just a matter of respecting the state aid. Rules are intrigued though fair and competitive nature of the EU. But like I said earlier apple argue all along they pay. They paid all their talks that they were required to buy low so like there. I think there is a strong moral on sort of EU political argument. That apple should have paid more attacks. I think so. I think the fought developed like into the tens of billions. Yeah that's definitely a factor a if we go back to the Proto overboard business if you stay there but they have been training the profits like a hoarder couple of year with the Commission takes no. Yeah so there is more play than just the law which is interesting but unfortunately for apple this may only be the start of state aid claims so January twenty eight thousand so it's fair to say after this whole debacle of the commission case Apple Changed Their talk structure in Ireland they restructured in January two thousand eighteen. However it was suggested by an economist. Shameless coffee that two thousand fifteen when apple restructured their audit into an IP based base erosion on profit shifting scheme which is like a way of moving profits from high tax jurisdictions to low tax jurisdictions. Don't ask me anymore by. That's all I know they. So they reach shifted into this. Ip based Beppe Scheme which depending on how it's set up could be kinder to Orlands owned corporation tax code so section two nine one eight C of the Irish taxes unconsolidated act nineteen ninety-seven says that you can't use the tax code to avoid tax and the paradise paper leaks seem to suggest perhaps that the intention behind moving to this. Ip based scheme was very much to avoid further taxation so if Irish revenue approve this scheme if they did on they waved section to nine one AC for two thousand fifteen restructuring it would be a further incident of state age. Because they've changed the tie. They waved a specific code of the talks. Consolidation knocked four apple so the future looks bright for apple on a technology front. I wouldn't say they do too great on the state aid front but again it's a very confusing situation and it's unclear how it will be resolved whether it will turn on the aid. Principles or on a very technical analysis of the economics talks behind it but apart from firstly the alleged state aid apple and secondly the banking sector during the financial crisis received. Some state aid are the Bronx among the lowest in the EU in terms of providing state aid. Yes in two thousand seventeen. I'm not quoting Vincent Power. How he wrote a paper on it. So we're actually overall quite good however thought one. We thirteen billion possibly financially. You're going by numbers. Might put us a higher end. I'm not sure but the album case he said was the most dramatic exception to Ireland's over a reasonable approach to stay date. So it's it's probably important to point. Ireland is not Ireland's problem alone so Luxembourg was fined for similar provisions given to Amazon. The Netherlands was fine as well or by the commission to have given starbucks state aid. So it's not just us but it is. It's something I play in Ireland anyway so that state-aid but I too fell down a tiny rabbit hole. Obey the idea is not a it is a bit of a is not really legal. Yes but the idea of leprechaun economics which sayings browde. This podcast is. Turning into economic discussed by Austin is very economically. Robert will these days. Just this episode. We'll be back on our legal analysis next week but labor going back to Lebron economics firstly leopard. Let's just leave it with the Leprechaun if you don't need to short already crazy enough in its own but so leprechaun economics is a term that was coined by an economist on twitter in two thousand sixteen on since two thousand sixteen. It's become a bit of like saying in the Irish Times used a lot in headlines. I it's become a bit of a thing. So what is used in reference to is how the Irish report Irish government report the GDP basically. It's the kind of tax system in Oregon being attracting big corporations through very favorable talks ratings But it just really liked the turn coney economics and then a tax systems I wrote in are just given the best names for example the nearest system the apple used the one they converted to in. Twenty fifteen or twenty six gene was coined the Green Jersey but the older system that many multinationals east before like in the I think to ninety two thousand was called the Double Irish which is where you have multiple subsidiaries managing different things and I also thought they're very masculine name swap anyway cocktails I. I liked degree. Gd It only gets particularly Moscow true. I'm `gendering as you rightly. Purchase words. Adobe Irish stands like a cheeseburger that I would definitely ease. I'm picturing a breakfast. Luther Ours Breakfast twice. And also it comes with the free tax avoidance but anyway to hot springs on talks avoidance. I'm in tasty just what you need in the winning. So my Marla the score. I didn't really have. I don't really know I wrote down. If you treat us like leprechauns who hide our pots of gold. We will start acting like leprechauns. Hard are pots of gold as a country but the pots of tax. So it's a self fulfilling prophecy exactly but seriously I don't know I don't watch for breach of state agencies but Winco reactions is abbreviated on. I don't have a lot of sympathy for comedy him. I don't look flips light. You could argue like the reason. The government like once a toxin even thought they provide so many jobs. Yeah there is I think like if we say it is frankly a case of state aid thought. Thirteen billion is very unlikely to come back to Ireland because essentially it came through. Arlen in the first place because apple is avoiding putting it through every other country outside of America which means there's a lot of countries who are GonNa Argue. They have they should have split up thirteen billion because it doesn't belong to. Ireland is kind of the whole point in the first place. So it was generated from all the revenue. They were funding to Ireland. Eight side of America. That's a lot of countries who who missed on talks essentially because it came through here. It's just it just so happened to be that we didn't really gain much from either because we told them that they have to pay tax on it. It's just I do genuinely find it a bit. Funny it's causing lots. I'll get this. Put Your purse a raid on blamed for this one. This one's on me. Give me a double Irish on the Green Jersey. So yeah I probably So stated is very interesting concept. I also think talks can be very interesting when you're when you're on this end the. Oh it certainly is interesting leprechaun economics. Well I wish I understood it better but I'm just glad to keep repeating its name. I KINDA WANNA poke no. That's just all economics. Overlake specifics of Stephen names like border. Nomex I did economic. I did Dana. Why don't legal like why don't leave. Go like approaches. Have Fun names. 'cause law it's legally bound. I know we that was a self-fulfilling prophecy to anyway. Thought everything I have to send state. Thank you very interesting. Eighty nine thank you. I enjoyed talking talks which is very depressing and very legally blond. Though you're on on Brownfield so thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed very little. E You episodes more of a glimpse into the economics of the U. We might come back to the Yoon Future. I Dunno let's make any hard and fast promises like Tirosh. Revenue might do to to a large corporation not knowing the implications in twenty years. But there's quite it's it's on the cards We'll see what what we daphne no is next week. We'll be discussing crime. Finally but thank you so much for listening and go raise on Apple podcasts. Tell your friends you can always reach a tooth anything to add or any corrections make you can contact us legally blonde pod at Jemele dot com or in our website legally blonde podcast dot com or. Just say hi on Social Media Yeah thanks.

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ABC Shark Tank Star Barbara Corcoran on Georgia Business Radio

Pro Business Channel

10:01 min | 3 months ago

ABC Shark Tank Star Barbara Corcoran on Georgia Business Radio

"Time once again for another episode of georgia business radio broadcasting live from the pro business general studios in atlanta. and now. Here's your host rich cazenove right a rich castroville alongside michael moore here. We're at arlanda pro business channel studio for the georgia business. Radio show and as our listeners may or may not know but november is a month at celebrate. Small business with women's entrepreneurship day and actually small business day. Which we've had the sba number times in the studio as well. We've had some great stories on that's on small business growing begin. Georgia is small business saturday as we mentioned both happening over the next few weeks. So it's a perfect time to talk about women in the workplace and so joining us today on this episode is entrepreneur and author barbara corcoran the co host of popular tv series shark tank. Which i'm a little bit obsessed with maybe well maybe overly excessive command performance and also guys aren't taking out the dinner off enough that she's spending too much near beside us. We'll and i'm single. So i'm single so barbara in town. I'll take you out to dinner. Yeah what with the name like over. Why not right. And actually we have the cousins main cousins maine. Lobsters right out our window here in buckhead. Go on out there and buy some lobster every time. Let me go can always working. Always working at along with barbara also joined with catherine hernandez blades. He's the chief brand and communications officer at catholic global brand. And they're here to share some smart solutions for women. Welcome barbara corcoran and catherine hernandez blaze jamie guys so barbara as we have a copy of your book right here in the studio shark tales. It's just amazing to two parts of it about your life story with your parents and growing up ten kids and then you're back story of the shark tank but today talk to us about that beginning stages of turning a thousand dollar loan into a billion dollar real estate empire what are some of the life. Lessons are business lessons. You've learned from running a small business into the businesses. You're running it now. Well the first thing is you have to work the right shift. If you're going to be a waitress. I was on the right shift. Which was the night shift when my future boyfriend street and offered me a date and later on a year later suggested that he give me a thousand dollars to start a brokerage firm. So i was just in the right place at the right time. And you can't tell that story and the other way After i was up and running. I had a huge advantage of being a poor kid. And you know what's great about being for you have no obligation. I had nowhere to go but up a worst that was going to happen is i was gonna fail and i was going to be a waitress again and guess what i was. Happy the waitress. I enjoyed every day of my work there. So that's the beginning point. I had a huge head start. And i had parents who believed in me and i just learn confidence from them and so once i was up and running. I think i started learning lessons on my own. The most important lesson. I learned was you have to surround yourself with the right people. People businesses about money. I no sense of money. I had no way. We your checking account. I knew well was he good person. Who's a bad person who's mediocre. And i only hired the good ones and i use my constant compass to only hire people that were truly happy thinking. If they weren't happy by the time they came into my shop. There's nothing is going to do that. Make them happy. And so i only hired happy people and it was on the backs of those people holding their hands. I was able to build a big business really very important about the people. Can't catherine says michael. I love talking about happiness because here in atlanta we're great places be happy but i know aflac is focused on the happiness report and i know you have some stats and information as a marketing person. You wanna share with us about how to improve our businesses with happiness. Absolutely i'd be delighted. Bottom line michael is the fact that people who work in small businesses are very happy. A big portion of that eighty six percent. Say it's because they feel their voices are heard and they feel like their ideas are implemented and that's critical and frankly eighty seven percent. Think it's just more fun to work in a small business. They definitely it's more bungee. We're in a small business. See what's happening right here. You can witness it you this year with years. I know a lot of funding. Catherine just came in from said. Isn't that true the most fun diseases on her small businesses. I'll talk findings. Go ahead pretty fun. Shoot just for the wreck. Duck thing going on. Yeah but but one area for improvement i is. We've discussed is the opportunity for salary and benefits to improve and that is where athletic comes in and voluntary insurance comes in you the power in the control back to the employees but not at the expense financially the employer and Do you know one So very clever and vastly different from other insurance programs out there. Not that. I know the mall but i have a working knowledge. Most is a they. The aflac program action raps the benefit to the liking of every individual. What worries you. What are you thinking could go along in your life. And how do we take the worry off your plate and it's that particular plan developed with the individual and so it's not of not a one shoe fits all kind of philosophy which i just don't think works in insurance anymore fear. It doesn't matter what. I what i've noticed from watching the shark tank reading. Your book is barbara. I i think what you've seen in the successful women entrepreneurs that you've worked with. Is that if they get hit with a there was one story you told where their website shut down and they had a choice whether you know let that define them or you know look at the bright side of things and see an opportunity and then happiness if you don't have that kind of part of your dna or can't bill that in you're going to have challenges right yes yes You are so right and you put your finger on. The crux look divides my successful businesses. Have like seventy something like businesses they winners from the losers. And i can tell you're dead spot it's about the inability to feel sorry for yourself The the the story. You're you're telling that of daisy cakes. Who's based in cases the mom so like a four hundred a year a good year and when she appeared on shark tank she had an order for something like thirty seven thousand cakes. One minute. that website crashed. A website. wasn't hosted anywhere worth. While i didn't even know the difference said but what did she do. She could have cried in shoot but i came into the office. The next saying got a message from her. I le limited. She said hello barbara. My one long hot wired and co forward to your main line she get bunch of those actresses in new york saying they're daisy cakes and take him out orders my entire staff to orders for the next six weeks and she made a fortune so what was the key and that she didn't get put down she's how do i solve this problem. And i'm telling you every on moore has that ability. Can i tell you my office. have you come in. you will see seventy some pictures. Beautifully matted infringed but i would say two thirds hanging upside down and you why i say down because i wait until something goes wrong and i listened carefully to what what that entrepreneur is thinking. And what do you think two out of three entrepreneurs to they cry in the super. Blame it on the next guy. And i walk right over the wall and i turned the picture upside down. Remind myself never to spend a lot of time with those people ever again because they're not going to succeed and short order they go out of business so it's the magic sauce to every entrepreneur the ability to take a slap in the head they can bang on their head get pushed down and be too stupid to get back up. You'll see low. Iq you're too stupid to lay low bounce up and say hit me again. Those are the people that succeed in life and businesses in life in general. And i've learned to really listen hard for that really. Listen hard but when you get good ones. Guess what. I'm good at i spoil them to death. Give the my time my book. My miami key whatever i gotta do to make them successful because they deserve it because they've taken the responsibility for themselves. Happier listening to this is this is happy. This makes us sure. Have catherine i know that you and i have been the backseats on this trip. So what else would you like to add today. This is michael moore here at georgia. Business radio turnabout to catholic interrupt. You michael michael. You're such a genuine. I have to say the idea that you went back over here to make sure she has something that she's got out everything she wanted. You did it so graciously. you are real gentleman. I love your attitude. And your demeanor is spectacular these are rockstar with rockstar in the studio. Hey barbara's ritz cast over right here. I'm listening dang we don't yet. I concur. I concur hundred percent barbaria undeniable rockstar. Yeah thank you michael. For more information on the study please go to lifelock dot com forward slash happiness report and. It's been great being with both of you. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you again for joining bridge and our guests on the pro business channel. Use the social media links here to share today show and stay tuned for the next episode of georgia on business radio.

catherine hernandez barbara corcoran barbara georgia cazenove arlanda catholic global brand atlanta michael moore buckhead sba michael aflac maine jamie hello barbara catherine Catherine
A heart full of ancestors

Conversations

53:06 min | Last month

A heart full of ancestors

"This is an abc podcast in the pacific islands collection of the queensland museum. They ease a carved wooden club. This club belonged to a man named lay a southsea. all olander. Who was working in queensland in the eighteen seventy s and this wouldn't club is one of imelda milas favourite items in the whole museum. Imelda is the queensland museum's curator of indigenous cultures and one of the reasons that she loves that club is that warmly brought it from his homeland of arum of okanagan island in. Vanuatu and abram is also the homeland of imelda's great grandparents as an australian southsea. Arlanda there are many chapters to the story of imelda's heritage but some of those lost because of the circumstances that brought south theologies to australia back in the nineteenth century as a curator imelda collects these stories helping to reconnect people and places. Harm hilda. sarah. Tell me about this club. What does it look like sarah. It's it's a pretty playing club. A club is a cloth. But it's you know it has some statute about it. You know it's made of this. Really heavy brown would and slender. And then at the head. There is a very distinct shaped club. Head which is very distinct from style as well and what would it have been used for. It would have been used for fighting. It was used for in ceremony. It could have been used for many different reasons but the description in the museum catalogue doesn't say that. What does it say. It just says this is a club from emblem as secure right. I do get to to hold it a you allowed to to pick it up. I have picked up. And and i love the kind of contact that you do. Get to have with objects and for me when people come in contact with objects feel. That's went objects. Come alive and their stories are awaken. And you know and different stories from different people and the objects us to show itself. Ta or when you pick that up when you're holding that wouldn't club in your hands what's going your mind. What are you thinking. What are you imagining. I can't remember one of the first times. I sold the club because it came from down. The logan which is way i mean not only did my great grandparents come from amber but they also came through the logan area and sorry. I wanted if formally was there at the same time as my ancestors did they come on the same boat. They come for the same reasons but then also thought who was warmly. What did he do. What made him come out here. And did he come by choice. All was he forced to come over like so many questions. There are thousands of autumn's in the pacific all collections at the queensland museum. I think the record states the tuomo is caught was donated by his employer in the nineteenth century. But what about those other things will. Where do they come from. How did they end up in the museum. It good question The same a qualified. We cau- items in many different ways. Today it's through acquisitions and donations oppressive. You know in the past in particular collection that i work closely with destroyed celsius custom collection In that case items were collected by you know captains labor ship vessels government agents farmers who earn sugar plantation farms. even mayors of those towns But in general throughout the collection there are a lot of government officials who are donating things medical doctors people who are traveling the landscape who have contact with people different people landscape and maybe people not fully understanding what they finding and when they're finding it and thinking that maybe not wants to using it and when we say celsius where are we talking about what. What exactly are the south seattle. Because they're not south of where we are here in this area. It's certainly not sell up here but also for me and in particular to this dry celsius the story. The south almaz The islands from vanuatu solomon islands. New caledonia fiji cure bass and mill by province of of new guinea as well so they're the islands that in this context i called the celsius john's but that's has been interchangeable also with pacific islander pollination allen's is there a series of one hundred fifty years and what was it that led to people from that range of alan's being brought to australia in the nineteenth century. What was going on so in the eighteen. Hundreds of people are starting to look at cotton and starting to look at sugar as plantations to as for his farm here but they didn't have much labor and the conditions. Here were harsh. it was hot. it's starting to more today with so winter and So you can only imagine what it would've been. life in. Australia is starting to look for new labor force to help develop the start of the australian sugar industry but they need the latest cleveland. And there's not many people here at that time. Other than aboriginal people who europeans announced to take over the landscape believed to them and they're looking for people to work in this harsh climate. These harsh conditions. They've heard of you know where america reusing african paypal and. Now they're thinking. Well maybe we can access the salsa flavor from the pacific islands so uniting sixty three. They first started coming here in. The first boat arrived into this bay. Here you know into the brisbane river into the logan area but eventually the historic coming into places life far vanderberg rock canton mackay townsville and kane. So all on this case line and it spread down into northern yourself. Wales as well where people from those all lands agreeing to come voluntarily with people kidnapped. How was the process of bringing people to come. And work on sugar farms and other conifers farms. On the queensland coast happening turned. That's commonly used is blackbird and that is the use of coercion of people being forced. Use the use of trickery to convince people to come out here to michigan industry however some did come by choice as well i questioned. What do people understand about that exchange. When it's happening but i the years i've heard many stories of people talking about their ancestors the swimming out to a boat to see what it is Being tricked onto boats. And i've heard about families in the islands. He's still white for loved ones to return home or their families to return high. And what kind of stories of of being tricked you being told. I've heard of people mainly people faint and coerced onto bites To look at something and then you hear that people being coerced go down into the house. just families talking when they talk with families back only on about people just disappearing and they wait for you know in the past. They waited for the die for them to return and they never returned. Was it only men young men who were taken lightly. It's there were men their children there were women and you know they were on these ships and they came to you. Know it's not jumping on a plane like we do today and the coming out here to this place they don't know and they They exposed to conditions harsh conditions and the to diets that they've never foods have never eaten before diseases. They've never come into contact before and so they faced with a lot of challenges and what kind of work were. Were people sip to doing once. They arrived on these stray lean mainland. They're here clearing the land. Sarah the you know the the land was full of scrub then. It's not like how we see today. And they're working hard to clear out the shrubs. And the the scribe the bushes and the trees and clear that land to make way for the plantations to be planted. And what kind of places did people leaving their records of what housing would accommodation was. Lie if you go to the state library you can see pictures of people living in grass houses. The times when people lived in barracks accommodation. You've got to remember. They're people from all different islands coming here and they all speak different languages. They all have different customs. They all have different protocols and yet the board into the interests riot and the rashawn figure out how to live together how to work together to communicate and expected to get along because people were busy though working Well him from sun up to sundown and then when they had a day off that we're going to church. Would people paid wages imelda. Yeah well you know. There's a term called indentured labour. you'll hear many people talk about the ancestors working conditions. That were kim the slavery. And you know we're talking about people. Being islanders being paid six pound a year to that of european what labor who were being paid thirty pounds a year. You know and there's talk of people not really ever seeing that money you know. They've got to pay. Some people had to pay for clothing and things like that so he says you say that term black boating is used is slavery of a a more accurate term. Do you think slavery is differently. A term that is used today. I mean if you look at the conditions they were slavery like conditions. The only differing pot is that some people paid because you do hear stories of people saying that. Incest is what paid and they fall. I think it's nicer to think we didn't have thought is kind of conditions here. And that way are part of a A good country. But you know there are parts of our history. I think will lead to come to terms with southsea. All under people free to return home to their ancestral countries. You know whether that arrived. He threw being trae door voluntarily. Could they go home when they wanted. So people were Many people were placed on what we call an indentured contract. Say that were contract three months And after that it was the of responsibility to return as people back to their home islands to go backwards and forwards while other stayed here and continued on to other contracts when the widest dry policy was introduced in nineteen hundred one. How did that change things for southsea. All unders living in australia nineteen hundred. Sarah does ten thousand allah ndas recorded living here in australia at the time. And they're doing well you know people had some people of being here for now. Forty years people are having families The studying to create community here and the one stray opole board about legislation that ordered the deportation of islanders back to their home countries. Now by i think that was by nine thousand nine hundred and the celsius islanders. Some of them with they didn't think this was fair. Because some people we're very much embedded into this landscape we've families The head married into other people from the islands ahead married people from abdul communities here and also married into your being families and so people fought and they created what was nine the pacific islander association who got together petitions to actually fight for celsius list. Actually remain here in australia. It's interesting telling. Isn't it that the that what ended this process of often. Indentured labour wasn't because the wide legislators realized that this was unfair or bad practice but because they're introduced another even more racist kind legislation. Which was we don't want anyone who's european living and working in australia so it's a strange way to be granted freedom or not afraid. I'm coming out of the water strategy policy and then as you say telling people whether they want to not have to leave. How many roughly. How many southsea all and were able to stay in australia. That water strategy policy was introduced the son of probably fifteen hundred celsius. He remained here by that number. Is debatable as well. Because people heat from being deported that number was probably higher than that and it is those who remained. That's more here made its descendants today. Who are now called strand celsius holidays. And what did those people who stayed do for work melted. They stay in the sugar industry. Which do they have to find out the kinds of employment. While sarah legislative has lots legislation bought into stop celsius on this from working in the sugar industry really so the very industry that they built up for those now like yeah now not wanting them to be a part of it. So so what do people do. They would try the moves on the outskirts of towns. And they found other ways of living creating allan gardens fishing Probably doing activities that they knew that they used to on the islands. I suppose and. I think it's really interesting because then i think these communities than that just start to settle and probably evidence of still in the landscape today where people are still living and i think that there were banded together to to survive in this landscape when you were a kid. What would your mom show you to help you understand. Where was that. Your family had come from yes. I always very curious as a child and off always very where. I was a little bit different to everybody else and i coal sitting in the kitchen monday around the table and asking my mom you know we from and she pulled out this detail and it had The new hebrides written on it and she goes. This is where we're from. And i was like i remember I'm from. I'm from a tail. But i you know 'cause my concept of the world at that time was like you know very here and now you know so you know. I didn't quite understand that. I knew as far as i started to get the concept always from somewhere else. How much was the the history. The stories of south theologies talked about in your family. It was always talked about. You know i and you know. We always heard our ancestors from the sociology network and says the other child trying to comprehend. What does that mean boy ancestor. That is different than saying you grandparents or great grandparents. It's much bigger. turn sister. it is a a turn lanes many and it gives you this idea that there is depth to your history and that lineage is low and i think that you get an idea that all i come from a place and i have a resilience of people who go back a very long time you know and when you say incest and when i say instead that that's what i'm talking about whereabouts did you grow up way was the kitchen. Where your mama showing you. This tea with the new hebrides drawn on it was. We lived in a little gold mining town in central claims. Land call mount morgan. And was there a big community of of south seond. Is there no. It was us. You know my cousins looked at another and not far away but rockhampton wasn't far away and there is a huge sas janda community in rockhampton and mount mount. Morgan is famous as use as a mining town. I think at one point. It was the world's biggest gold mining skull mine. Because i've been cut mine and the southern hemisphere. I would have been taught that it exactly exactly was the minds to operational. When you're growing up out. It was actually an there. Was the town was huge. You know. I mean obviously a child but to remember there was like a pub on every corner in. What about the sounds of the mind. Is that something that you can remember from. A for mckee sounds connected with that mind. Yes dairy member sirens and i do remember explosions finning as well and i remember you know the siren around three o'clock and i don't know i just ashamed. That was ended. She stopped My friends who did have families work in the minds might have other things to say about that but That's the memories i recall but it was very vibrant and i i make good friends. They're still keep in contact with many friends. Who grew up with you. Know a lot of people from the. It doesn't matter how long i haven't seen you for everyone still. It's like you just saw them yesterday. And it's always love the to rican it. How did things changing mount morgan. After the mind stopped working. Yeah about my memories of when the mind stop working. Were you know my friends left town and many of them and it was sort of this mass exodus of people who then had the you know their parents had to find other work in other places. And because you know it's not just about the mind is it. It's about all the industry that surrounds the mines and as that slowly dies down this other industries then that get the effect of that supplies and so yeah. My friends had the move away and The town the school sizes. You know your classrooms smaller. But you know. I think the town is resilient. Yeah you also spent a lot of time at your grandmothers place. Whereabouts did she leave. Yes Is my mother's mom. And she lived in a little place called. Joe scully which is about forty minutes east of rockhampton and what kind of place was just lay when you were there visiting as a kid it was When you go there it was a little bit rage and you go onto the dirt road and your travel along the old as cabbage palm trees along the sides of the road and they were swamps. You re crossover swamped saying you go over salt pan and all these smells and all the the trays when you see them. And you see the salt pan it just reminded you of haunt you know just tall to your home and You know we go down the dirt road and past the old church and And go to my grandmother's And she lived in a house that was built by my grandfather and Yeah wade spend. My brother-in-law was penned every weekend. They're just about while we're growing and was that a place where community south theologists had moved to after that work in the sugar industry came to an end. Yes one of the it's a little settlement. That was my occupies people settled. They like my grandmother sisters the-they're and children live. There's always you know there was. It was a community. Those lots of kids To play with cousins. It's right by by the ocean was a good fishing. There was great fishing and surprised. The thing about just goalie is i mean. It's really special to us. It's probably not the ideal location. Because actually really situated between two swamps and it's probably the land the you know no one really cared live there but whilst it's really beautiful and it is close to the beach and we used to eat you know go fishing and fish all the all the foods of the same often and andre remember you know. A bump survey us fish thirteen arab brotherhood. Can we just have sausages like everybody else. Not knowing until i was an adult. How much seafood actually cost them. What a blessed and privileged life i. Actually this is a little island. Just off the coast. Say good orleans yes did you. Would you go out there. Yes i i a couple of times as a child. My cousins went. A lot is be little bit younger than everybody else. But and i. I've just had my aunt recalling story about going there and getting oysters off the rock and this terrible childhood that will you just wanting sausages that music because music is such a beautiful part of pacific all and cultures. What was music something that you remember from joel. Scully yeah i suppose From me a music guy. Connect to church and people singing and people playing tars and piano accordions and singing hymns. But also you know people playing guitars and singing kinds of music as well definitely and on my father's side a lot of my cousins are very talented They sing and play. Musical instruments to this very day was church. Should be part of your grandma's live and of your life when you were visiting yes sir. At judge was a very big part of my grandmother's life and i think many celsius communities failed a people religion as a partner laws in some way whether it still does today on on it depends on the person but deadly has played a pa in our lives. And you know every sunday the retain would be mine made. My grandmother would wake up and she put the sunday rice stone in the all. This is like a fought with a fire and she would payroll that and get the roast ready and make the desert and that would all be put on then while she went to church We my brother. And i were close to sunday school before she went to church. We were up ellie and cousins. Come along collect dawson. Let a church. And i would never be able to read. The bible calls us to young to rate. So my i remember my cousins always having to flip through and find the games you know was like that person that everybody always had the help online and on. Abc listen up. This is conversations with sarah. You can subscribe to the conversations podcast to find out more just head to abc dot net dot eu slash conversations. Anelda when you were growing up in mount morgan. Did you imagine that one day you'd work in a museum. I had no idea about museums. Now i did that. I would be in this world and i always say cited people that it chose me and i didn't choose it. Well how did it happen. I should start a museum just to make a dollar to pay the rent and to get by and the curiosity got me from the. I used to do school to us. And then i slowly Learned about the collection. And i realized that you're able to volunteer in the collections. And so i joined a group that we used to volunteer. And you know. I started to come into contact with objects and and started to think about the stories that they tell and it just blew my mind that all these objects would be sitting in a museum yet. No one got to see them. And i just saw wanted to share this experience with other people that he sort of became life. Passion and i was hooked. What was the first exhibition you worked on that got to showcase some of this south seattle and the history and identity back then Sinecure his name was michael cornell and he was before his time he was the senior curator of ocean interpol's at the time and he really embraced and encourage Whenever he found an islander to connect to the collection even encouraged it more if he found someone that was interested in working with it and it was through him that he could mean to exhibitions and one of the first month's was actually exhibition. Recall discovering queensland and he encouraged me to actually do a story on me. And i just talked about my interactions with my grandmother and you know had a photo of me and a couple of photos of my cousins and some food that grew around the area and the little church. We all went to sunday school and talking about sociology history. What kind of reactions did you see from people who came and saw that i guess particularly people of a ustralian southsea islanders. How did they respond to seeing this story in a museum. It's really interesting. Sara should ask that question because people would always say to me. I saw his story at the museum will It's good to see your face. You die so you face. There took a photo of it. You know and i really felt like people started to connect because they saw not just me but they sell themselves. And i think that really sort of resonated with me a lot that how important. It was for people to kind of see themselves. We'll see something that connects to then and when you you said that you know. The museum has elise objects that a hidden away. When you started doing exhibitions bringing them out of the back shoulder and the storage containers and putting them on display. How do people from the community respond to to seeing some of these autumn's what have you witnessed are people are overwhelmed. It's almost like a silence. Falls over the room any community that i have either worked with or come to visit me or come to visit the collection almost a silence that occurs and i almost feel like oh. I've done something wrong or there's something here that shouldn't be here. But i think people are just in all and i think everyone is reflecting re talked about ancestors before i think people reflect on the industry and and what has happened to make them the here on this guy to have that experience and to be able to connect with these objects these photographs. And what does that mean to them like to be visible to see that they think are still here and i still here and i suppose the these items on just history. There's something living about the jake's the that someone sees from their own story there on culture very much so and for me. That is the pair of all blog. I tried to do in the work that i do is to connect these objects in the collection to the people who they mean the most to the something that happened sarah and these objects come alive and stories come alive and people start recording memories and they recall people and the recall place in that connection. And there's almost a sense earth belonging and you know in some stories are happy and some traumatic and you can go through all kinds of emotion when people come to visit because she joined people bringing into the very and i was just thinking before i came here. What is my job as a curator. And i think i'm a care of collections. But i feel. I'm a care of community and care of stories and creating safe spaces for people to come and just be and have the experience that i may have in that space. Have there been times where people from. Vanuatu solomons Here in australia. And see these objects and we'll con- response to they have and how might that be different than an australian celsius. Linda just recently actually Talking with Community from the solomon islands. And and it's really interesting to see people connect with objects and i feel like you get other stories and those Stories from home and country. And it's the other side of the story like i feel like have particularly look at the custom collection. They're talking about the air system before straw and they really connect to that. And i definitely see that especially as well when i'm looking at the historical photograph collection. Perhaps in the state library. Where ed then people look at the photographs as we will look at photographs on waste families and we can tell who is from which family they can tell were islands. They come from what village they come from an in the historical photographs because the people in the photographs they features a straw. But by the time you get to a generational myself the features faded away. They're all of it makes you know you get to have context brands. But definitely i do feel like when you have people from better wattle. The solomons here. That connection is deep and it just reminded me about how well one is. How they are heritage goes but also. There is a little sadness. Because i think the thing that we've lost along the way you worked on. A exhibition called plantation. Voices at the state library and a quiet from vendor. Wadi came out to perform at that. What was that like. that was magical It was the gift that keeps on giving what we like to call it. And then when the quad came out from venezuela they're on their way to northern territory for big festival and they stopped into look at the exhibition. And i remember giving the mature. The exhibition allies stood in front of this photo of the celsius celsius. Women in the canfield in north claimed flan and as i'm talking to them. I'm to probably get emotional there. But as talking to them i realized that this is their ancestors as well gets every jar and we all got emotional all at the same time that day. 'cause we realized that we all belong to that story. And then 'cause i'm here and here and these are all incest. This did they sing about they did. They did to full moments at the library. They performed a couple of games. But i think the my special moment was that was elda in the crowd that was able to come that day and they for her and they saying to because that connection and strong and i thought that was really powerful because the teacher aldo probably would not be able to travel back to the heim lanes so as a why connecting. Hey a place in the work that you do researching and going through the collections. Looking at five is have found. Autumn's that directly relate to your ancestry to your story. As i have found stories in a way they all relate to me. I just connect with it in different ways at different times. And depending on what i'm doing and i think as a curator in a big institution like the cleveland museum. It's hard sometimes because you're the researcher annual the research and so you work in this area. That's complex because you're not only dealing with doing your job but then you have the community cultural responsibilities and you also have the emotional dealing with it on emotional level so it's professional and it's personal and it all comes together and it's quite complex and sometimes you're dealing with in a very public spice as well so you've got to learn to kind of control fat because especially if you've got other visitors it's not always. It's not about myself and my experiences. It's about giving people they spice and daytime. It's also time for me to connect to the collection as well ange. Surprise when i do. Exhibitions plantation voices is a is a moment to kind of acknowledge these photos of people as people and that they had families. And that's something that i try to do in in in my work is actually. This is not just about historical. That happened two hundred years ago. That event is intrinsically a part of our identity and we're still alive and living today. How much told you have about your where your mom and dad and their families were from have a little bit of detail but som- parts are not there some pieces the way just die because the names change this spelt differently. You take on me. Names miller is certainly not a name from the islands and it's really hard to trace back if the names have been changed so but i have been lucky enough. That some of that has been recorded in little community booklets. They'll have stories about different families. And so i've been lucky to have that recorded in the and some information that's impasse lon generation to generation as well. How common is it for australian south zealanders to visit their ancestral homelands to make the journey back to vanuatu. The solomon zoll or fiji or well in kaysville. We're not doing anything. But i suppose you know since the seventies i i think people have started going back to reconnect with families in to look for people from what they knew and try and make that connection and sometimes have been really successful. Settling my grandmother when she was still alive shave. In fact to 'em from two village welcome village so her her maiden name was woke on and so walk on was it was whack on and of course felt he walk on and she was able to go back before she passed away. She was able to go back to the village from where her father came from. What did she tell you about that. What was that like. I just remember her being really excited. And i did have a conversation with my anfield. An item because she was with her on that visit and they when they didn't know that we're gonna go and do that. My grandma had been to. This is her second visit. And they had made up their mind that they'd made some context and they decided they charter a plane and go up to go to ambro and they went to. Ambrose didn't know they were going to go to the village and they jumped on this boat and they went to the village and my aunt said that she was greeted by the village with all these gifts and it was like. That's all she wanted to do before before she passed away was to k to the village. That have fatherless from so she was able to do that. I think about it could national every but i think that you know she was seventies eighties to have that experience to go back again. I wanted to wait that long. And that her father didn't get to go back and what that must have meant for him and for the families that were waiting for they they're members and descendants. It must have been such beautiful welcoming experience for people in in the village as well. Yes yes and. I think you know to have someone returned yet. So what about you. Every been to vanuatu of you been to aspirin. I haven't been to amber. amber. I have went to venice ones and i was lucky enough to go. My parents and that was Life changing experience for me. Tell me that it is funny. Because i you know if such a beautiful place and i remember just thinking looks just like the cards now. I had the same thought about when i saw satan through telescope for the problem. Just like the posters. But it was soy 'full and i just remember walking along the water's edge and my father. Was there my uncle was there. I don't know this this thing came over me. I i got it and uncles like what she gets. What you get i it. This is where. I'm from like like narrow laughing like idea. This is where you're from. You know this is where your people i said like people always say i'm happy i get it on. My people are happy. It's not just that. I'm a happy person because everyone always used to call me smile. Aol smiler but it's because my people were happy people. And i just had this moment of fill my ancestors shoot me in the heart like at that moment and it was just the mice crowning moment for me to other reconnecting and to be able to do that like if my parents and my uncle and my aunt and i thought about them having their first time there as well and i just thought that's just so like i'm having this you know in my twenties but you're having this in yeah fifty sixty s and what was it like for your dad. What what can. I can actions. Could he make yes so. I had experience with my dad. When we went to vanuatu i had gone to the market that day to have a look at all the fresh fruit and vegetables And to bring something back for us to eat. And i remember walking back into our combination wherever we're staying and i saw my dad sitting down and it was like he was talking to everybody and you know he was sort talking english but not looking english but it was. The conversation was blowing. You know and i remember observing. Hang on a minute. My head was going what's going on. How can he understand what they spang like. How can we have this conversation. And i don't usually interrupt my father because you don't do that. I did say you know. Walk into the komsic. Hang on a minute. I need to ask a question. Like i need to understand what's happening here i come. You can understand everyone an icon and He said to may all. Wow the old people used to talk to me in language but we always had the talk back in english he goes so i can understand what everybody is signed but i can only speak back in bits and pieces and i said void. You teach us guys well. I never knew that we're gonna come back here. And he said you know the old people always said. This is a new. I'm here in australia and didn't need to know all these other things and that we had to work out. Why best to just be like everyone else here. And we didn't need all these other things because we wouldn't be able to return high so yes and my dad always told me about you. Know the people talking in language and into speak only in english but to say that action. I think really kind of ford hind to mate. Some of the things that we we miss maybe part of that troll more of us. A community as well as a curator anna. Someone working with the museum. Is this still history to make sense over there. Still items to collect safe. From the parts of queensland anthony south wales where celsius does were brought work on sugar plantations and farms. And there's still things that you think we wanna go out and talk to people and and add to our collection. I think they're big paces. That amazing i mean this is a very big part of history said and and it is important but i think that we as a community have done so much the last hundred and fifty years that that also needs to be recorded and so at the moment i am working with a couple of communities in the north to talk about. What are these experiences. What what have we been doing as a community who are important people and what are they important places and how can we tell that threw objects and helping the community understand what is an object. You know i think people don't you know some people don't understand it. They think of us something as really old but like a teacher a hat. A pair of shoes are very day. I ribbon a cast net. These are all things that tell stories that who we are who we have been the experiences that we have had. Because i don't become a curator. A museum with are having other giants to stand upon people have done a lot of work to enable pathways for many of us to have the successes that we have today. And i want to make sure that they recorded for future generations. So they need that who Here is our and and where that resilience and where that strength comes from within a community win was australian southsea all and is officially recognized as a cultural group imelda. I mean that history that identities always been there from you. When did the rest of us catch up. Yes so in the seventy s sarah. They started fighting for recognition and slacks for people. Like as faith bandler. You know they're all fighting for us to be recognized and Finally in ninety ninety four the cult government recognize stray on this as a distinct cultural group. And was that significant. Was that a meaningful day for the community. Yes it was a meaningful day. Anche still is a meaningful day because with that recognition we were existing as no one you could say and without it you. You can't help the community like you need to be somebody and having recognition we became community and united and able to talk about who we were and then stopped to create awareness of what our history was how he got here and now start to address some of the issues and challenges that we face but also trying to find solutions to some of those things especially around how education employment training to help l. community to be successful. There was a a word frustration. Southsea on does it's now considered derogatory. How do you see that word now. Yes the word. Connector was a very derogatory word in the past and and i still see it as a derogatory term. It was a term that what australians used about. Southsea all onto people correct. Yes i cannot imagine has some people head that used in reference to themselves and so i think we have been very respectful of l. I'll paypal to make sure that we don't use that way today however Young people are members of the community styling to reclaim that word as their own And there are in terms with their own conditions and how to everybody for doing that I know young people seem to find. They find a lot of strength in that word and they've reclaimed it in their own way. Whether it be being songs for the in art work this would encompass as a fully competition yes happening in rockhampton november. Yeah occupies the forty competition. A came out of a place of reconnecting a young people in with a history. So it's not just the forty competition. It is a competition between two main towns. Which is the two main communities rockhampton and mackay and they come together in different towns H town but is about reconnecting young people with history so when they go back to each did they towns say taken and they meet with all people or elders and there are talks they presented jerseys for the eldest. So that they they know who they are because some people live in different towns and then they meet an all uncle who lives in another town you know. So they start to make that connection and that they don't become strangers you know to family so and it's a good opportunity for the community to come together in a bitter friendly rivalry We gonna be Barracking floor in the connec account. Look on mary charl. Just kinda support everybody coming together and being friendly. But i get lots of enjoyment. Unfortunately i don't get to go home and see every football carnival budge. I just love seeing the photographs that come out of it of everyone being happy that younger generation making connections with other families and and this is forever with them as a yes. They grow up melda. It's been really a great joy to speak with you on conversations. Thank you so much for being our guest. Thanks for having me sarah. It's been an absolute privilege and to be share. My story and talk about a sell. Sell the history and heritage imelda. Mila is the queensland. Museum's curator of indigenous cultures and a lot of the objects in that collection including walmart club can be seen online at the queensland museum website arms. Sarah thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with sarah and ask for more conversations interviews head to the website i they say dot net dot edu slash conversations. Hi it's richard here with the podcast recommendation. If you came to get some lively family discussions happening over the dinner table or on long car trips then this could be the podcast for you and your kids shorten curly is an ethics show about life's tricky. If the questions and hosts mulling in cal- have a new season. Oh so so so much to fueled pixie. Dust go sleigh polish rudolph's nose and stopped the elves from new gnising call. We've gotta hide. what are you doing. Certa set it's maycom smith. Remember me a send you a letter every year. How what are you doing here. And how did you get past. The pole of Is yes. The poll is short and curly. The kids podcast for the whole family downloaded from the abc. Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts.

imelda australia queensland museum sarah rockhampton vanuatu pacific islands olander imelda milas whole museum okanagan island Arlanda tuomo vanuatu solomon islands rashawn abc pacific islander association allan gardens
Dealing With Trolls

The People's Countryside Environmental Debate Podcast

13:57 min | 2 months ago

Dealing With Trolls

"This episode of the people's countryside. Far debate podcast. We're going to talk about these little small. Swedish plastic toys with funny hair aren't we. Oh so. we're talking about different types of trouble. Now how do you deal with. Trolls or social media regarded our podcast in other words that we do. That's going to be the question. We're going to be addressing today. Trolls on the internet are really before this one. My name is william cloud of the covers to this. Podcast is a waste. I'm gonna talk for creative person as well. I do a weekly show. Sepe had gmt on my facebook page at an angle. I'm into nature very much so happy all my entire life. My mom how. My dad took me out tonight. When i was really young. It's just been part of my life from a very young age along siberia's at the other zim cool is i'm still remember the co host of the people's so environment or debate podcasting. I've always been interested in just being out in night in identifying understanding it. Just enjoying it for what it is. And i'll try and convey that in in the work i do get people in goading walks in people in nature and making it daily life and getting them to think well actually. I don't know what this tree is. I don't know what to spit on just going to enjoy it for what it is. We're here to challenge beliefs in mindsets and maybe some actions now and again addressed the some of the big issues we talk about in the last few episodes. We haven't been set in too many actions but it you know stupid. You can fathom some yourself. We hope to break down the big issues into voice chunks and You know i'd be a friend in your ear as around the big issues around nightshift philosophy human condition and a little bit like a pub conversation over here in in two men having that i enjoyed a couple of cans of special brew. Especially if you could asked confident that the today's question now should be. We had listen jenny little now. Can they move very far for this. This question from whereas from coming from haley from msci fog which is what next to beat neighbours. Almost good name in oxygen. I'm like good night but you never know. Yeah yeah it depends on what you yourself right. So the maybe they know each other. Maybe that's always but the question. We have from haley. Today is quite simple one but we will. We will come across these things. I other style. The question is. How do you deal with trolls or social media regarding the podcast and other work you do. Have you actually had any proper trolls. Stewart any social media. Because i can't think of just haven't got big enough tros silly men with red hair. Yeah that's that's one version of the troll. Yeah like i said at the start right. Do you remember the trolls. Do you ever have patrol on the pencil. Yeah yeah yeah. No i i saw other people have the most twenty five anyway. But we're talking about trolls on social media as people he post provocatively or post stuff on on a comment. Whatever just try to get a reaction and you know. I often think that these people they just don't have very much imagination with their life. You know vegas spend all their time just like putting in comments on something. Just just to try and get reaction. I mean the best. The best trolls i've ever seen by the way have been there because we're local newspaper any local newspaper pick one go to the male. Maybe some of the comments. You definitely very troll. Like but to dealing with the way i kinda deal with. I would deal with the trolls as maybe completely ignored. What they're saying anyway all just go with what they're saying and seeing see what their reaction is. Go down that route. I've seen some people deal withdrawals on groups. I'm in by by actually pick it apart. What they're saying and not really seriously engaging with what they're saying right The toronto question. I've we've been trolled. Well we've had some dissenting voices. Don't agree with us but necessarily sign all you idiot so thinking this. I don't necessarily see that as a troll. Well you know on a few idiots on on on social media probably wouldn't tell them. But i think that might be atro- but I don't think we've had one I remember one. There was Posted something can Mistakenly said it was in Britain and it was just slightly below the northern ireland southern ireland border and somebody who picked up on it said you know Oh well no. This isn't britain. This is this era. This is southern arlanda republic of ireland. And i won. I looked at it and thought among response was night she doesn't recognize political boundaries An oil say said. I did look in this guy and he was very much a A republican the eaves. Anti the queen and everything. I'm not pro queen It was onto the queen. I just said you everything you put on. Social media is about voting your cause and on half a mile out anyway. I did engage with him. And never again so. I wouldn't say that was trouble master opinion because an intimate troll. He's seventy like makes up intentionally inflammatory or statements. That's just to get lots of strong reaction among personally. I think that what they chose trying to do. The chinese of stint still topic conversation off topic basically tried to interrupt a conversation. I think. So wasn't that going. He was talking about. This isn't in in. Britain wasn't easiest choice to conversation. Yeah yeah especially by just being very finicky and very pt. But for me personally. I h were read this stuff. I mean younger person. You read everything and it affects you. So oh i've got my brain. We're just not going to look at that. Trump donald trump on easter coast. All this stuff guarantee you never looked at the reply. He's now moved on from that. That that that particular statement right. I mean i don't i don't have any real personal experience of trolls per se as directed at me. I there's a couple of people are east too boring east too boring people. Yeah i am maybe just just don't have maybe have enough people following me. You know facebook. Wherever i said to a friend of mine new through certain numbers subscribers on on on youtube and he started getting people sort of big trolls basically and i said that's in a way troll decided success. He region enough people to reach these. These people who actually because they talk about being in a group where there's only ten people there's no. There's no conversation because there's no. There's no reaction to what they're saying. Yes the audience now audience. It's accurate charles. Need audiences and i would say get rid of the audience because that doesn't make any difference. I didn't think but the i would also say that there was a couple of people that how they don't trolls. One of the dealt with it in these are both people are quite big followings online. One said that. If somebody says something about me i reply go. I am we'll of it and actually just director and they get no reply. Th the hudson replied to that and the other one would be go. Go the exact opposite way of thinking person to spend all that spent time putting that into woods. That's horrible statement about me. What's wrong with our life. I'm gonna. I'm gonna treat. That was compassion and she said often is often the if get down to the reason why somebody's actually be in trouble in the first place no ways but that was just how people and if you really good at this troll is great for if you've got a really good engaged audience a trial. We ignore conversation other people in new orleans who jump on. You don't have to manage your social media because it's running of its own volition fantastic people who support you there. Actually they'll back you. And then ironically can be if got a big following that person who was actually trolled them might actually be told themselves because you get lots of people than like was cut. Core classes families going after them heard of trolls. Can you picture that of troves blunt. You silly men roy okay. Permanently footballers right but the other thing. I'd like to point out is personally if it's not if this stuff isn't set by people who matter in my life auto give a flying fuck type. Maybe that's that's very true but it's how do you deal with him. I don't think there's any will good way dealing with somebody that you can't imagine they would say this thing to your face bash another thing entirely. How do you think controls our religious beliefs anyway. This wanna be really wanna be one of the bright they want to derail something and just make an impact in the world because they've got no badge nation potentially the that's the only way they can make an impact vaguely. This is our impact disney. We're we're talking about. We're discussing these issues. That's what we're doing here know. Maybe maybe maybe maybe we can get troll on this episode. That'd be great and see how we react to it. I'd to have green or blue. Need to leave emomali alone right now. Does he. He stuck his fingers in plcs. And let us. I'm not look. I will look on youtube. I see what color my hair is anyway. This is being the people's environment debate podcast where We're going to the next Recording we're going to do he's going to be face to face in more garden. There's going to be the first time in a long time kind of insisted on it as well. I know it is because we haven't recorded feisty for very long time and we need to know what each other looks like so we're going to be stewart's guard so next one's going to be a little bit noisier because we're right next to a busy round here. We'll have the police in the background. Not coming after us. Believe me. I'm looking forward to actually just doing some recording face to face the we've we've used up a law listener questions so get the main. We've got another ten questions. get through. Interestingly we've had a run of question some listeners. Oxyde william we got three three of those ten off from opposite but the countries that are represented so it of is slovakia india pakistan new zealand netherlands japan and downtown south africa as a lot of those have never asked us questions before. Great to have a miss rosehill oxygen. Costas finish william costing us vision. Yeah i was gonna say something i. I can't be with another bleep. In episode advice ways matic doctorate of leaks. Do we are really stretching out. The this episode will leave. Leave you to whatever you up to right now especially you doing the washing up without gloves. Washington how list now your question in the next episode.

william cloud Sepe jenny little haley northern ireland Britain arlanda republic Trump donald trump easter coast siberia msci facebook Stewart roy okay vegas toronto youtube emomali hudson charles
A heart full of ancestors

Conversations

53:06 min | Last month

A heart full of ancestors

"This is an abc podcast in the pacific islands collection of the queensland museum. They ease a carved wooden club. This club belonged to a man named lay a southsea. all olander. Who was working in queensland in the eighteen seventy s and this wouldn't club is one of imelda milas favourite items in the whole museum. Imelda is the queensland museum's curator of indigenous cultures and one of the reasons that she loves that club is that warmly brought it from his homeland of arum of akanik island in. Vanuatu and abram is also the homeland of imelda's great grandparents as an australian southsea. Arlanda there are many chapters to the story of imelda's heritage but some of those lost because of the circumstances that brought south theologies to australia back in the nineteenth century as a curator imelda collects these stories helping to reconnect people and places harm hilda. Hi sarah tell me about this club. What does it look like sarah. It's it's a pretty playing club. A club is a club. But it's you know it has some statute about it. You know it's made of this. Really heavy brown would and slender. And then at the head. There is a very distinct shaped club. Head which is very distinct from style as well and what would it have been used for. It would have been used for fighting. It was used for in ceremony. It could have been used for many different reasons but the description in the museum catalogue doesn't say that. What does it say. It just says this is a club from emblem as q. Right i do get to to hold it a you allowed to to pick it up. I have picked up. And and i love the kind of contact that you do. Get to have with objects and for me when people come in contact with objects feel. That's went objects. Come alive and their stories are awaken. And you know and different stories from different people and the objects us to show itself. Ta or when you pick that up when you're holding that wouldn't club in your hands what's going your mind. What are you thinking. What are you imagining. I can't remember one of the first times. I sold the club because it came from down. The logan which is way i mean not only did my great grandparents come from amber but they also came through the logan area and sorry. I wanted if formally was there at the same time as my ancestors did they come on the same boat. They come for the same reasons but then also thought who was normally. What did he do. What made him come out here. And did he come by choice. All was he forced to come over like so many questions. There are thousands of autumn's in the pacific all collections at the queensland museum. I think the record states the tuomo is caught was donated by his employer in the nineteenth century. But what about those other things will. Where do they come from. How did they end up in the museum. It good question The same a qualified. We saw items in many different ways today. It's through acquisitions. And donations participated in the past in particular collection that i work closely with destroyed celsius custom collection In that case items were collected by you know captains labor ship vessels government agents farmers who earn sugar plantation farms. even mayors of those towns But in general throughout the collection there are a lot of government officials who are donating things medical doctors people who are traveling the landscape who have contact with people different people landscape and maybe people not fully understanding what they finding and when they're finding it and thinking that maybe not wants to using it and when we say celsius where are we talking about what. What exactly are the south seattle. Because they're not south of where we are here in this area. It's certainly not sell here but also for me and in particular to this dry celsius the story. The south armed The islands from vanuatu solomon islands. New caledonia fiji cure bass and mill by province of of new guinea as well so they're the islands that in this context i called the celsius john's but that has been interchangeable also with pacific islander pollination allen's is there a series of one hundred fifty years and what was it that led to people from that range of lands being brought to australia in the nineteenth century. What was going on so in the eighteen. Hundreds of people are starting to look at cotton and starting sutton look at sugar as plantations to as for his farm here but they didn't have much labor and the conditions. Here were harsh. it was hot. it's starting to more today with so winter and So you can only imagine what it would've been. life in. Australia is starting to look for new labor force to help develop the start of the australian sugar industry but they need the latest cleveland. And there's not many people here at that time. Other than aboriginal people who europeans announced to take over the landscape believed to them and they're looking for people to work in this harsh climate. These harsh conditions. They've heard of you know where america reusing african paypal and. Now they're thinking. Well maybe we can access the salsa flavor from the pacific islands so uniting sixty three. They first started coming here in. The first boat arrived into this bay. Here you know into the brisbane river into the logan area but eventually the historic coming into places life far vanderberg rock canton mackay townsville and kane. So all on this case line and it spread down into northern yourself. Wales as well where people from those all lands agreeing to come voluntarily with people kidnapped. How was the process of bringing people to come. And work on sugar farms and other conifers farms. On the queensland coast happening turned. That's commonly used is blackbird and that is the use of coercion of people being forced. Use the use of trickery to convince people to come out here to michigan industry however some did come by choice as well i questioned. What do people understand about that exchange. When it's happening but i the years i've heard many stories of people talking about their ancestors e-the swimming out to a boat to see what it is Being tricked onto boats. And i've heard about families in the islands. He's still white for loved ones to return home or their families to return high. And what kind of stories of of being tricked you being told. I've heard of people mainly people faint and coerced onto bites To look at something and then you hear that people being coerced go down into the house. just families talking when they talk with families back only on about people just disappearing and they wait for you know in the past. They waited for the die for them to return and they never returned. Was it only men young men who were taken lightly. It's there were men their children there were women and you know they were on these ships and they came to you. Know it's not jumping on a plane like we do today and the coming out here to this place they don't know and they They exposed to conditions harsh conditions and the to diets that they've never foods i've never eaten before diseases. They've never come into contact before and so they faced with a lot of challenges and what kind of work were. Were people sip to doing once. They arrived on these stray lean mainland. They're here clearing the land. Sarah the you know the the land was full of scrub then. It's not like how we see today. And they're working hard to clear out the shrubs. And the the scribe the bushes and the trees and clear that land to make way for the plantations to be planted. And what kind of places did people leaving. Their records of what housing accommodation was. Lie if you go to the state library you can see pictures of people living in grass houses. The times when people lived in barracks accommodation. You've got to remember. They're people from all different islands coming here and they all speak different languages. They all have different customs. They all have different protocols and yet the board into the interests riot and the rashawn figure out how to live together how to work together to communicate and expected to get along because people were busy though working Well him from sun up to sundown and then when they had a day off that we're going to church. Would people paid wages imelda. Yeah well you know. There's a term called indentured labour. you'll hear many people talk about the ancestors working conditions. That were kim the slavery. And you know we're talking about people. Being islanders being paid six pound a year to that of european what labor who were being paid thirty pounds a year. You know and there's talk of people not really ever seeing that money you know. They've got to pay. Some people had to pay for clothing and things like that so he says you say that term black boating is used is slavery of a a more accurate term. Do you think slavery is differently. A term that is used today. I mean if you look at the conditions they were slavery like conditions. The only differing pot is that some people paid because you do hear stories of people saying that. Incest is what paid and they fall. I think it's nicer to think we didn't have thought is kind of conditions here. And that way are part of a A good country. But you know there are parts of our history. I think will lead to come to terms with southsea. All under people free to return home to their ancestral countries. You know whether that arrived. He threw being trae door voluntarily. Could they go home when they wanted. So people were Many people were placed on what we call an indentured contract so that were contract three months And after that it was the of responsibility to return as people back to their home islands. Some people are known to go backwards and forwards while other stayed here and continued on to other contracts when the widest dry policy was introduced in nineteen hundred one. How did that change things for southsea. All unders living in australia nineteen hundred. Sarah does ten thousand islanders recorded living here in australia at the time. And they're doing well you know people had some people of being here for now. Forty years people are having families The studying to create community here and the one stray opole seaboard about legislation that ordered the deportation of islanders back to their home countries. Now by i think that was by nine thousand nine hundred and the celsius islanders. Some of them with they didn't think this was fair. Because some people we're very much embedded into this landscape we've families The head married into other people from the islands ahead married people from abdul communities here and also married into your being families and so people fought and they created what was nine the pacific islander association who got together petitions to actually fight for celsius list. Actually remain here in australia. It's interesting telling. Isn't it that the that what ended this process of often. Indentured labour wasn't because the wide legislators realized that this was unfair or bad practice but because they're introduced another even more racist kind legislation. Which was we don't want anyone who's european living and working in australia so it's a strange way to be granted freedom or not afraid coming out of the water strategy policy and then as you say telling people whether they want to not have to leave. How many roughly. How many southsea. All and were able to stay in australia to that. Water strategy policy was introduced with the son of probably fifteen hundred celsius. He remained here by that number. Is debatable as well. Because people heat from being deported that number was probably higher than that and it is those who remained. That's more here made its descendants today. Who are now called strand celsius holidays. And what did those people who stayed do for work melted. They stay in the sugar industry. Which do they have to find out the kinds of employment. While sarah legislative has lots legislation bought into stop celsius on this from working in the sugar industry really so the very industry that they built up for those now like yeah now not wanting them to be a part of it. So so what do people do. They would try the moves on the outskirts of towns. And they found other ways of living creating allan gardens fishing Probably doing activities that they knew that they used to on the island. I suppose and. I think it's really interesting because then i think these communities than that just start to settle and probably evidence of still in the landscape today where people are still living and i think that there were banded together to to survive in this landscape when you were a kid. What would your mom show you to help you understand. Where was that. Your family had come from yes. I always very curious as a child and off always very aware. I was a little bit different to everybody else and i coal sitting in the kitchen monday around the table and asking my mom you know we from and she pulled out this detail and it had The new hebrides written on it and she goes. This is where we're from and i was like I'm from. I come from a tail but i you know 'cause my concept of the world at that time was like you know very here and now you know so. I didn't quite understand that. I knew as far as i started to get the concept always from somewhere else. How much was the the history. The stories of south theologies talked about in your family. It was always talked about. You know i and you know. We always heard our ancestors from the sociology network and says the other child trying to comprehend. What does that mean boy ancestor. That is different than saying you grandparents. Great grandparents it's much bigger. Turn sister it is a term turn lanes many and it gives you this idea that there is depth to your history and that lineage is low and i think that you get an idea that all i come from a place and i have a resilience of people who go back a very long time you know and when you say incest and when i say instead that that's what i'm talking about whereabouts did you grow up way. Was the kitchen. Where your mama showing you. This tea with the new hebrides drawn on it was. We lived in a little gold mining town in central claims. Land call mount morgan. And was there a big community of of south seond. Is there no. It was us. You know my cousins looked at another. Yeah not far away. But rockhampton wasn't far away and there is a huge sas janda community in rockhampton and mount. Mount morgan is famous as use as a mining town. I think at one point. It was the world's biggest gold mining skull mine. Because i've been cut mine and the southern hemisphere. I would have been taught that it exactly exactly was the minds to operational. When you're growing up out. It was actually an there. Was the town was huge. You know. I mean obviously a child but to remember there was like a pub on every corner in. What about the sounds of the mind. Is that something that you can remember from. A for mckee sounds connected with that mind. Yes dairy member sirens and i do remember explosions happening as well and i remember you know the siren around three o'clock and i don't know i just ashamed. That was she stopped My friends who did have families work in the minds might have other things to say about that but That's the memories i recall but it was very vibrant and i i make good friends. They're still keep in contact with many friends. Who grew up with you. Know a lot of people from the. It doesn't matter how long i haven't seen you for everyone still. It's like you just saw them yesterday. And it's always love the to rican it. How did things changing mount morgan. After the mind stopped working. Yeah about my memories of when the mind stop working. Were you know my friends left town and many of them and it was sort of this mass exodus of people who then had the you know their parents had to find other work in other places. And because you know it's not just about the mind is it. It's about all the industry that surrounds the mines and as that slowly dies down this other industries than that. Get the effect of that supplies. And so yeah. My friends had the move away and The town the school sizes. You know your classrooms smaller. But you know. I think the town is resilient. Yeah you also spent a lot of time at your grandmothers place. Whereabouts did she leave. Yes Is my mother's mom. And she lived in a little place called. Joe scully which is about forty minutes east of rockhampton and what kind of place was just lay when you were there visiting as a kid it was When you go there it was a little bit rage and you go onto the dirt road and your travel along the old as cabbage palm trees along the sides of the road and they were swamps. You re crossover swamped saying you go over salt pan and all these smells and all the the trays when you see them. And you see the salt pan it just reminded you of haunt you know just tall to your home and You know we go down the dirt road and past the old church and And go to my grandmother's And she lived in a house that was built by my grandfather and Yeah and we would spend. My brother-in-law was penned every weekend. They're just about while we're growing and was that a place where community south theologists had moved to after that work in the sugar industry came to an end. Yes one of the it's a little settlement. That was my authorize people settled. They like my grandmother sisters the-they're and children live. There's always you know there was. It was a community. Those lots of kids To play with cousins. It's right by by the ocean was a good fishing. There was great fishing. And i suppose the thing about just goalie is i mean. It's really special to us. It's probably not the ideal location. Because actually really situated between two swamps and it's probably the land the you know no one really cared live there but whilst it's really beautiful and it is close to the beach and we used to eat you know go fishing and fish all the all the foods of the same often and andre remember you know. A bump survey us fish thirteen arab brotherhood. Can we just have sausages like everybody else. Not knowing until i was an adult. How much seafood actually cost them. What a blessed and privileged life i. Actually this is a little just off the coast. Say good orleans yes did you. Would you go out there. Yes i i a couple of times as a child. My cousins went. A lot is be little bit younger than everybody else. But and i. I've just had my aunt recalling story about going there and getting oysters off the rock and this terrible childhood that will you just wanting sausages that music because music is such a beautiful part of pacific all and cultures. What was music something that you remember from joel. Scully yeah i suppose From me a music guy. Connect to church and people singing and people playing tars and piano accordions and singing hymns. But also you know people playing guitars and singing kinds of music as well definitely and on my father's side a lot of my cousins are very talented They sing and play. Musical instruments to this very day was church. Should be part of your grandma's live and of your life when you were visiting yes sir. At jesuit was a very big part of my grandmother's life and i think many celsius communities failed to people religion as a partner laws in some way whether it still does today on on it depends on the person but deadly has played a pa in our lives. And you know every sunday the retain would be mine made. My grandmother would wake up and she put the sunday rice stone in the all. This is like a fought with a fire and she would payroll that and get the roast ready and make the desert and that would all be put on then while she went to church We my brother. And i were close to sunday school before she went to church. We were up ellie and cousins. Come along collect dawson. Let a church. And i would never be able to read. The bible calls us to young to rate. So my i remember my cousins always having to flip through and find the him. You know like that person that everybody always had the help online and on abc. Listen up this is conversations with sarah you can subscribe to the conversations podcast to find out more just head to abc dot net dot eu slash conversations. Anelda when you were growing up in mount morgan. Did you imagine that one day you'd work in a museum. I had no idea about museums now. I did that. I would be in this world and i always cited people that it chose me and i didn't choose it. Well how did it happen. I should start out a museum just to make a dollar to pay the rent and to get by and the curiosity got me from the i used to do school to us and then i slowly Learned about the collection. And i realized that you're able to volunteer in the collections. And so i joined a group that we used to volunteer. And you know. I started to come into contact with objects and and started to think about the stories that they tell and it just blew my mind that all these objects would be sitting in a museum yet. No one got to see them. And i just saw wanted to share this experience with other people that he sort of became life. Passion and i was hooked. What was the first exhibition you worked on that got to showcase some of this south seattle and the history and identity back then Sinecure his name was michael cornell and he was before his time he was the creator of ocean interpol's at the time and he really embraced encourage Whenever he found an islander to connect to the collection even encouraged it more if he found someone that was interested in working with it and it was through him that he could mean to exhibitions and one of the first month's was actually exhibition. Recall discovering queensland and he encouraged me to actually do a story on me. And i just talked about my interactions with my grandmother and you know had a photo of me and a couple of photos of my cousins and some food that grew around the area and the little church. We all went to sunday school and talking about sociology history. What kind of reactions did you see from people who came and saw that. I guess particularly people of a australian southsea islanders. How did they respond to seeing this story in a museum. It's really interesting. Sara should ask that question because people would always say to me. I saw his story at the museum will It's good to see your face. You die you face. There took a photo of it. You know and i really felt like people started to connect because they saw not just me but they still himselves. And i think that really sort of resonated with me a lot that how important. It was for people to kind of see themselves. We'll see something that connects to then and when you you said that you know. The museum has elise objects that a hidden away. When you started doing exhibitions bringing them out of the back shoulder and the storage containers and putting them on display. How do people from the community respond to to seeing some of these autumn's what have you witnessed are people are overwhelmed. It's almost like a silence. Falls over the room any community that i have either worked with or come to visit me or come to visit the collection almost a silence that occurs and i almost feel like oh. I've done something wrong or there's something here that shouldn't be here. But i think people are just in all and i think everyone is reflecting re talked about ancestors before i think people reflect on the industry and and what has happened to make them the here on this guy to have that experience and to be able to connect with these objects these photographs. And what does that mean to them like to be visible to see that they think are still here and i still here and i suppose the these items on just history. There's something living about the jake's the that someone sees from their own story there on culture very much so and for me. That is the pair of all blog. I tried to do in the work that i do is to connect these objects in the collection to the people who they mean the most to the something that happened sarah and these objects come alive and stories come alive and people start recording memories and they recall people and the recall place in that connection. And there's almost a sense earth belonging and you know in some stories are happy and some traumatic and you can go through all kinds of emotion when people come to visit because she joined people bringing into the very and i was just thinking before i came here. What is my job as a curator. And i think i'm a care of collections. But i feel. I'm a care of community and care of stories and creating safe spaces for people to come and just be and have the experience that i may have in that space. Have there been times where people from. Vanuatu solomons Here in australia. And see these objects and we'll con- response to they have and how might that be different than an australian celsius linda. I've just recently actually Talking with community from the solomon islands and and it's really interesting to see people connect with objects and i feel like you get other stories and those Stories from home and country. And it's the other side of the story. Like i feel like have particularly look at the custom collection. They're talking about the air system before straw and they really connect to that. And i definitely see that especially as well when i'm looking at the historical photograph collection. Perhaps in the state library. Where ed then people look at the photographic as we will look at photographs on waste families and we can tell who is from which family they can tell were islands. They come from what village they come from an in the historical photographs because the people in the photographs they features a straw. But by the time you get to a generational myself the features faded away. They're all of it makes you know you get to have context brands. But definitely i do feel like when you have people from better wattle. The solomons here. That connection is deep and it just reminded me about how well one is. How they are heritage goes but also. There is a little sadness. Because i think the thing that we've lost along the way you worked on. A exhibition called plantation. Voices at the state library and a quiet from vendor. Wadi came out to perform at that. What was that like. that was magical It was the gift that keeps on giving his what would like to call it. And then when the quad came out from venezuela to. They're on their way to northern territory for big festival and they stopped into look at the exhibition. And i remember giving the mature. The exhibition allies stood in front of this photo of the celsius celsius. Women in the canfield in north claimed flan. And as i'm talking to them. I'm going to probably get emotional there. But as talking to them. I realized that this is their ancestors as well gets every jar and we all got emotional all at the same time that day. 'cause we realized that we all belong to that story. And then 'cause i'm here and here and these are all incest. This did they sing about they. Did they did two full moments at the library. They performed a couple of games. But i think the my special moment was that was elda in the crowd that was able to come that day and they for her and they saying to because that connection and strong and i thought that was really powerful because the teacher aldo probably would not be able to travel back to the heim lanes. So why connecting. Hey a place in the work that you do researching and going through the collections. Looking at five is have found. Autumn's that directly relate to your ancestry you'll story. As i have found stories in a way they all relate to me. I just connect with it in different ways at different times. And depending on what i'm doing and i think as a curator in a big institution like the cleveland museum. It's hard sometimes because you're the researcher annual the research and so you work in this area. That's complex because you're not only dealing with doing your job but then you have the community you know you have the cultural responsibilities and you also have the emotional. You know you're dealing with it on emotional level so it's professional and it's personal and it all comes together and it's quite complex and sometimes you're dealing with in a very public spice as well so you've got to lynn to kind of control fat because especially if you've got other visitors it's not always it's not about myself and my experiences. It's about giving people they spice and daytime. It's also time for me to connect to the collection as well ange. A surprise when i do exhibitions plantation. Voices is a is a moment to kind of acknowledge these photos of people as people and that they had families. And that's something that i try to do in in in my work is actually. This is not just about a historical event. that happened a hundred years ago. That event is intrinsically a part of our identity and we're still alive and living today how much he told you have about your where your mom and dad and their families were from have a little bit of detail but som- parts are not nowadays on pieces the way just die because the names change this spelt differently. You take on me. Names miller is certainly not a name from the islands and it's really hard to trace back if the names have been changed so but i have been lucky enough. That some of that has been recorded in little community booklets. They'll have stories about different families. And so i've been lucky to have that recorded in the and some information that's impasse lon generation to generation as well. How common is it for australian south zealanders to visit their ancestral homelands to make the journey active. And awada will the solomon zoll or fiji or well in kaysville. We're not doing anything. But i suppose you know since the seventies i i think people have started going back to reconnect with families in to look for people from what they knew and try and make that connection and sometimes have been really successful. Settling my grandmother when she was still alive shave. In fact to 'em from two village. Welcome village so her her maiden name was woke on and so walk on was it was whack on and of course felt he walk on and she was able to go back before she passed away. She was able to go back to the village from where father came from. What did she tell you about that. What was that like. I just remember her being really excited. And i did have a conversation with my anfield. An item because she was with her on that visit and they when they didn't know that we're gonna go and do that. My grandma had been to. This is her second visit. And they had made up their mind that they'd made some context and they decided they charter a plane and go up to go to ambro and they went to. Ambrose didn't know they were going to go to the village and they jumped on this boat and they went to the village and my aunt said that she was greeted by the village with all these gifts and it was like. That's all she wanted to do before before she passed away was to k to the village. That have fatherless from so she was able to do that. I think about it could national every but i think that you know she was seventies eighties to have that experience to go back again. I wanted to wait that long. And that her father didn't get to go back and what that must have meant for him and for the families that were waiting for they they're members and descendants. It must have been such beautiful welcoming experience for people in in the village as well. Yes yes and. I think you know to have someone returned yet. So what about you. Every been to vanuatu of you been to aspirin. I haven't been to amber. amber. I have went to venice ones and i was lucky enough to go. My parents and that was Life changing experience for me. Tell me that it is funny. Because i you know if such a beautiful place and i remember just thinking looks just like the cards now. I had the same thought about when i saw satan through telescope for the problem. Just like the posters. But it was soy 'full and i just remember walking along the water's edge and my father. Was there my uncle was there. I don't know this this thing came over me. I i got it and uncles like what she gets. What you get i it. This is where. I'm from lack like narrow laughing like idea. This is where you're from. You know this is where your people i said like people always say i'm happy i get it on. My people are happy. It's not just that. I'm a happy person because everyone always used to call me smile. Aol smiler but it's because my people were happy people. And i just had this moment of fill my ancestors shoot me in the heart like at that moment and it was just the mice crowning moment for me to other reconnecting and to be able to do that like if my parents and my uncle and my art and i thought about them having their first time there as well and i just thought that's just so like i'm having this you know in my twenties but you're having this in yeah fifty sixty s and what was it like for your dad. What what can. I can actions. Could he make yes so. I had experience with my dad. When we went to vanuatu i had gone to the market that day to have a look at all the fresh fruit and vegetables And to bring something back for us to eat. And i remember walking back into our combination wherever staying and i saw my dad sitting down and it was like he was talking to everybody and you know he was of talking english but not looking english but it was. The conversation was flowing. And i remember observing. Hang on a minute. My head was going. What's going on. How can he understand what they spang like. How can we have this conversation. And i don't usually interrupt my father because you don't do that but did you know. Walk into the komsic. Hang on a minute. I need to ask a question. Like i need to understand what's happening here i come. You can understand everyone an icon and He said to may all. Wow the old people used to talk to me in language but we always had the talk back in english he goes so i can understand what everybody is signed but i can only speak back in bits and pieces and i said void us guys. Well i never knew that we're gonna come back here. And he said you know the old people always said. This is a new. I'm here in australia and didn't need to know all these other things and that we had to work out. Why best to just be like everyone else here. And we didn't need all these other things because we wouldn't be able to return high so yes and my dad always told me about you. Know the people talking in language and into speak only in english but to say that action. I think really kind of ford hind to mate. Some of the things that we we miss maybe part of that troll more of us. A community as well as a curator anna. Someone working with the museum. Is this still history to make sense over there. Still items to collect safe. From the parts of queensland and albany south wales where celsius does were brought work komo sugar plantations and farms. And there's still things that you think we wanna go out and talk to people and and add to our collection. I think they're big paces. That amazing i mean this is a very big part of history said and and it is important but i think that we as a community have done so much the last hundred and fifty years that that also needs to be recorded and so at the moment i am working with a couple of communities in the north to talk about. What are these experiences. What what have we been doing as a community who are important people and what are they important places and how can we tell that threw objects and helping the community understand what is an object. You know i think people don't you know some people don't understand it. They think of us something as really old but like a teacher a hat. A pair of shoes are very day. I ribbon a cast net. These are all things that tell stories that who we are who we have been the experiences that we have had. Because i don't become a curator. A museum with are having other giants to stand upon people have done a lot of work to enable pathways for many of us to have the successes that we have today. And i want to make sure that they recorded for future generations. So they need that who Here is and and where that resilience and where that strength comes from within a community win was australian southsea all and is officially recognized as a cultural group imelda. I mean that history that identities always been there from you. When did the rest of us. They catch up. Yes so in the seventy s sarah. They started fighting for recognition and slacks for people. Like as faith bandler. You know they're all fighting for us to be recognized and Finally in ninety ninety four the cult government recognize strikes on this as a distinct cultural group and was that significant. Was that a meaningful day for the community. Yes it was a meaningful day. Anche still is a meaningful day because with that recognition we were existing as no one you could say and without it you. You can't help the community like you need to be somebody. And having recognition we became a community and united and able to talk about who we were and then stopped to create awareness of what our history was how he got here and now start to address some of the issues and challenges that we face but also trying to find solutions to some of those things especially around how education employment training to help l. community to be successful. There was a a word frustration. Southsea on does it's now considered derogatory. How do you see that word now. Yes the word. Connector was a very derogatory word in the past and and i still see it as a derogatory term. It was a term that what australians used about. Southsea all onto people correct. Yes i cannot imagine has some people head that used in reference to themselves and so. I think we have been very respectful of you know i'll paypal to make sure that we don't use that way today however Young people are members of the community styling to reclaim that word as their own And there are in terms with their own conditions and how to everybody for doing that I know young people seem to find. They find a lot of strength in that word and they've reclaimed it in their own way. Whether it being songs for the in art work this would encompass as a fully competition yes happening in rockhampton november. Yeah occupies the forty competition. A came out of a place of reconnecting a young people in with a history. So it's not just the forty competition. It is a competition between two main towns. Which is the two main communities rockhampton and mackay and they come together in different towns H town but is about reconnecting young people with history so when they go back to each did they towns say taken and they meet with all people or elders and there are talks they presented jerseys for the eldest. So that they they know who they are because some people live in different towns and then they meet an all uncle who lives in another town you know. So they start to make that connection and that they don't become strangers you know to family so and it's a good opportunity for the community to come together in a bitter friendly rivalry We gonna be Barracking floor in the connec account. Look on mary. Charl kinda support everybody coming together and being friendly but i get lots of enjoyment. Unfortunately i don't get to go home and see every football carnival budge jazz love seeing the photographs. That come out of it of everyone being happy that younger generation making connections with other families and and this is forever with them as a grow. Melda it's been really a great joy to speak with you on conversations. Thank you so much for being our guest. Thanks for having me sarah. It's been an absolute privilege and to be share. My story and talk about a sell. Sell the history and heritage imelda. Mila is the queensland. Museum's curator of indigenous cultures and a lot of the objects in that collection including walmart club can be seen online at the queensland museum website arms. Sarah thanks for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with sarah ascii for more conversations interviews head to the website. I they say dot net dot edu slash conversations. Hi it's richard here with the podcast recommendation. If you came to get some lively family discussions happening over the dinner table or on long car trips then this could be the podcast for you and your kids shorten curly is an ethics show about life's tricky. If the questions and hosts mulling in cal- have a new season. Oh so so. So much to fueled pixie. Dust tank go sleigh polish rudolph's nose and stopped the elves from uniting call. We've gotta hide. What are you doing certa set. It's maycom smith. Remember me a send you a letter every year. How what are you doing here. And how did you get past. The poll says Yes the poll is short and curly the kids podcast for the whole family downloaded from the abc. Listen app or wherever you get your podcasts.

imelda australia queensland museum sarah rockhampton pacific islands olander imelda milas whole museum akanik island Arlanda vanuatu tuomo vanuatu solomon islands rashawn abc pacific islander association allan gardens
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41:43 min | 7 months ago

Bob And Lu Answer Your Questions!- Lu's New Favorite T.V. Show- Bob Our Irish Leprechaun! Happy St. Patrick's Day!- The Bob and Lu Show Ep 194

"Fio- everybody doing so we're back okay. It's hump day. We missed monday saint patrick's day. Yeah we miss monday because and in fact was one of our questions. So we've been asking you guys on social media. If you have any questions you want to ask us or any comments or any subjects. You'd like us to talk about people really cool about that. I love that because bill de emma's or they'll they'll put some kind of comment every once in a while and social media's now we've gone ahead and solicited for these things but they'll ask us all kinds of things like. How did you guys do this after you were first time parents. Or how do you blah blah blah on not that we're experts but we sure don't mind talking about ourselves sometime experts sometimes So i kind of answering one of the questions and also letting you know where the hell we were on monday. So we have been vaccinated. It's a long story. But we. I signed us up on a bunch of lists and we became eligible and bob got his on thursday of last week and i wound up getting mine on friday afternoon and did fine until about late saturday morning and then i started getting some side effects and i felt very puny the rest of the day on saturday and i was starting to feel a little bit better sunday but still not one hundred percent and then so we could not record the podcast. Because i was like. I'm sorry. I love y'all love bob. Love the podcast. But i was not going to like push through. I just wanted to sleep and rest in And then by monday. I was probably about eighty percent and today is tuesday. We're doing the wednesday show right now. But i'm one hundred percent. I'm full power so anyway the thing that's weird is i took my shaw. I had no side effects none. You said you may have had like a little headache but bobbin snapped it off and it it put lou down for calm. Down did well. Okay i do kinda feel like i got a majority of the side effects but i see i read a lot. I read a lot i get. I'm just like an old news person. I just try to get as much information as i can. And so a couple of things. So we got the johnson and johnson. Which is you know they say. Don't don't vaccine shop but when the opportunity arose for us to get these shots we jumped at him because that was actually the one we wanted and he might go. Oh well that's only seventy two percent and modern advisor or like seven or ninety four and ninety five percent or something like that but first of all i. The president of johnson and johnson came out and said no matter what this will keep you out of the hospital and out of the morgue. And i'm like okay for mania and then he's and even though it's a lower percentage it is the one shot that so far has done very well against the new variants and and we liked that it was a one shot deal like. We weren't going to have to go back. So bob got his on thursday because we had an opportunity for thursday and friday. And i'm like let him go first. Because i thought if something happens and they don't have any more on friday at least we've got you vaccinated. So he went and got his sis- fine like the guy that i'm always worried about fine. He did great. I get mine. And mike like sitting there waiting okay. Does this feel weird it. Hey is that normal. Like what is that. And and then so i had on friday friday at like four o'clock i got mine. Did great did had dinner. Everything was fine to shower. Went to bed. I woke up saturday morning. And you know that feeling you get in your muscles the day after you've worked out really hard and it's kind of a good workout feeling. I had that like a lot of my body was like sore. I can't say casey because it was the good kind of sore like i had worked out yet. I knew i hadn't worked out so there was that and then i started getting a headache and i'm like oh my sinuses are really acting up like at this point. Still not putting two and two together like this is a side effect. You and then. I remember saying to bob like it's really cold in the house. And then he's like no it isn't and it was actually a really pretty day and it was warm outside and i went. Oh i must be getting chills. Because i have a fever and sure enough fee for never went above one hundred but any elevation for me out of that ninety eight. Whatever is rough for me. So i had like the i was cold and then i was hot and cold and hot and double check because i've heard several again i read too much. I heard that you should only take tylenol. But i knew tylenol didn't really work for me. Advil worked better. And i thought okay. What do i do so i did. Text a friend of mine. Who's a p. a. And i'm like. Hey what do you think she goes. Oh girl whatever works. So i wound up taking some advil. And anytime i had advil me i was fine. I mean i still wanted to sleep and rest and just watch tv and lay in bed but it was a good excuse for me to be in bed watching movies so i guess what i would say. Oh and then sunday. I've i've felt like okay a little better. Not as achey not as headache easy. But still i got that kind of cold hot thing and and as long as i had a little bit of advil i was okay but monday. I mean i was able to do some stuff but monday morning. I woke up and you know again. I mean better much. Better no fever. No achey nece no headache anymore. But just still you kind of felt like you've gotten hit by a truck. I mean i shouldn't say that it just felt like i was not my normal energy level at the beginning of the day. Pouf put some coffee in me. Hamas all over it i was fine and then i looked around the house and apparently bob dumez doesn't know how to put dishes away from a dishwasher. I actually talked to my mom about that. Marcia was not my job then either. Didn't know we assigned jobs. Did we assign job yes. I'm the swiffer and cleaner and you do everything. So i actually said to my mom i go like. We've lived in this house about eighteen months now and i don't think he's ever turned on the dishwasher. Empty the dishwasher. I'm like he basically knows where the plates are. The cups are in the silverware. But like if you said to him handed a mixing bowl he'd be like i'm sorry your sol. So it is what. It is. The only advice i might have is if you choose to get your vaccine like. We made a choice to get a vaccine. It's totally up to. You're not gonna get into that debate. We chose to get it and if you choose to get it i would probably give yourself like a day or two having it on. A friday was great for me because i could rest the whole weekend. You know if you're working full time and you can't take a break. If you don't feel good i mean i would just say that it did make me feel good that my girlfriend. The pa said hey listen. We had doctors who have been doctors for you. Know anywhere from fifteen to thirty years. We had them like down for the count after their second shot. They were feeling like ask and she goes. If it makes you feel any better. And i'm like okay. Yes that actually does make me feel better and that even doctors who have this great immune system and then i read again someplace else that actually the healthier and younger you are the more side effects and a half while so you had zero side fan and i got hit by a bus. So yeah there's that so. That's why we were not here on monday. I just i wasn't going to push myself. And i was willing try to do show myself but Apparently s not a good idea. I didn't know you were going to do the show yourself. It wouldn't be long. be here. Talking is loosening so anyway that was that this is what happens when you are likes forty eight hours in front of tv set. 'cause granite throughout the pandemic we've watched more. Tv than i probably would have in a year but Also we've been busy doing stuff during our hibernation but this was forty eight hours pretty much nonstop so i have a new favorite show because in our bedroom we don't have streaming. We just have cable. And so i watched on. Gosh is it bravo bob. I watched below deck and then there's below deck mediterranean. So it's this you have never seen it. It's actually kind of good. They do a good job making it like soap opera ish but it's the obviously very young people in their early twenties. Who have made a living doing private charter. Yachts yachting sailing boating cool. I mean so you know some rich customers come on. I don't know six eight people come on this charter private charter yacht. And there's a whole crew of what like ten ten ten crew members who take care of them during this charter and it was actually pretty fascinating. It was cool. Because i i didn't start watching it until lou got into but as i watched it it is really cool. The captain of the ship. He's older he's older and i like him. We know bob. Here's what i have to say. You didn't spend time in the bedroom with me while i watched it. And there's several seasons of this and so now it's below deck mediterranean. We have a new captain. We have several seasons. So now there's actually captain sandy who is a female and that's an interesting interesting dynamic and then there was like a sailboat. Charter captain i do not want to get in a sailboat. Know a lot of work best. You just have a motor and start tooling along. But they're in the most beautiful part. I mean tahiti and mykonos and croatia. I mean but don't they the people on now working for the ship but the people go costumers. Yeah don't they start from close to the place going. Well okay. i guess this is part of it. I actually this. This is how intense i get like. I must no more. It's just like shits creek when we had finished watching it. Bob and i had to watch all the videos with the whole cast lake every every interview. They did so now. I'm watching all a youtube videos. About below deck. And i mean these people can make serious money in one charter season but it seems to me that the families yes might be vacationing and then part of their vacation is they're gonna do a charter. Okay so let's say they're in greece and they decide they're going to do a charter yacht. Excursion for two or three days off the coast of mykonos. There you go. If we had the money i would wanna go and get a charter from like florida And go all the different Like the the thing we did for our honeymoon we went to one island to another and we we just did the two islands d- but you know i would like to go arlanda island to ireland and beyond the ship that man that food looked good and just lay on the boat and everything. I mean. That sounds great. Yeah i mean. I loved that they. You know they would basically tell the chief steward okay. We need to eat at noon and six or we need to eat it to an eight or whatever and we would like this and then lake. If the his years. The most common thread i saw throughout was that the guests would say yeah. We just want this or were vegan or whatever and then they would get there and go. We're still hungry and that poor chef would have to like in thirty minutes. Come up with more food for these people. And i kept thinking. Could you potentially run out of food. I don't know but everyone of the crew members is skinny and pretty or thin yang guys and girls and they all seem to be in their twenties and thirties. And like this one guy said he's like i. I wound up graduating from business school. And then doing this he goes i kind of wish. I hadn't gone to college now because he goes. I wished i'd started right out of high school. Or whatever and got in those years under my belt but it's really fascinating again. They make pretty good money. I mean they make a base salary and then win win. The guests are getting off the boat. They're handing the captain is enormous envelope of cash. And like oh here you go. Here's twenty thousand dollars split it among the crew. That was just the tip i got. How much was the charter. And then saying but i also think these charters are like if you had a beach house. You know you have a beach house. You're going to rent it out right to make money off of it. And i think some people who have these charter yachts early of these yachts decide to you know have a crew and have a captain and they how making money to possibly pay for the i dunno or maybe they're just that rich that they can just have boats all over the place in the water. Well you know. I would. I would i don't like cruises like like a cruise. Yeah i'm not in. I literally have been on one cruise in my life and it was the disney cruise and we did the four day land three day. See and i was so happy. We only did three days on that boat because it was not a positive experience for me. I was like five months pregnant with our youngest daughter. Our oldest haley was like three years old. She had a great time. I was seasick. Most of the time. And i was hong agree. I did not see like when the love boat on. Tv there were not just oodles and oodles and yards upon yards of buffets. I couldn't find food. I was like. Can i get a freaking almond joy. I couldn't get anything. Thank god. I had paxton peanut butter crackers but i wouldn't you love if okay if we rich wouldn't you love to have your own boat. I think that would be really really cool. I don't like cruises. Like i don't want to be on a boat with other people but if we had a yacht and we could take family and friends you know on different trips that would be so cool and like a a crew that we trusted trusted with our obviously our investment and with our food but oh this was what was cool too is that they did some of the filming of this. It was old episodes that were from like last year at this time and there was like there would be so. They're on this boat for like six weeks for quote unquote a season and they have like different guests coming on and off during those six weeks and they have to prep the boat. Clean the boat get ready for the next charter yadda yadda and so in this one series. The captain says hey. I'm sorry but our next to charters or cancelled because of the corona virus and now these kids are like into hiti and they can't get home because while they've been on these ships while they've been on these cruises. The krona virus has broken out throughout the world. And they're so protected being on this boat around these people that you know they. They're only seeing this on their phone when the news comes through and their families are worried about them and stuff and so the charter season ends early because of covid and these kids are having to try to find a way back home and the borders already shut so some of them couldn't even get home. It's like you do not oh mighty twenties. That'd be i'm fine. That's the whole thing. Bob was saying when we were watching it together. As i would have done this. I would have done this. I mean i don't get seasick or anything. But i love you so much but you were seasick on the disney cruise. I didn't have to take anything. No but you were sake. You had to stay in the room for a while for a day. Okay verde only three day cruise. I was so happy when we stopped at port. Because my please make this thing. Stop but anyway okay. So that was one. The things that i gleaned from my two days in bed getting over the cove the coronavirus vaccine and i saw the most disturbing commercial. There is a or. i believe. It's a new product. Because i've never seen this commercial before but it is. There's a venus razor for women that is apparently supposed to be good for your bikini areas. And i have never seen this done like i've seen ones where it's like. Okay you just pushed it a little bit. They are literally showing a woman with a razor down on her bikini line. Like she shaven. Wow right there by the crotch. Let's be honest. Tom right there by the crotch. She's got these itty bitty pair underwear on. And i'm like okay. I think we all know what the bikini line is do. We really have to show that. She's shaven down there and you have to show this time. Whatever okay but there was a little shock value there for me. Okay and look here. I am talking about it also about tv. Bob did you see netflix's caught on. They may not let you share your password anymore. I we got about ten people at our netflixif account so I love net flicks. So much that. If i can't share my net flicks password. Which would do with our daughters. I would be okay. I would be okay. You would be okay if we didn't share it. Yeah if we had us back to the days where you would split. Cable member cable splitting. Does anybody remember. We would buy those little things at radio shack. Yeah but You know s okay. I would just tell the girls by our own. Sorry can't use our right but we do that with a lot of our accounts. Yeah but there are girls they come home they go back and they asked for the past code and tell them the passcode but And then bob changes the pass code naked piss and they call me and go. Why did daddy change the past. I don't know just whatever. Just i'm doing the best i can so i thought that was interesting. Okay so i've been talking to friends because a lot of our friends are talking about getting the vaccine and like hey can you ask. Where have you gone on like. I signed us up every place and now i'm starting to get stuff like they tell you. Please get off the list. And i'm trying to figure out i'm trying to remember how many lists i put us on. But i'm kind of passing it along to friends like. Hey there's like a big immunization thing you know go go to this to this or whatever and then when i when i asked people what are you most excited about or when i talked like my mom and her friends what were they most excited about to have the vaccine and like women. My female friends hands down like ninety. Five percent are like. I'm so excited to go to the grocery store and pick out my own produce real. That is a huge thing. Because and i have to say i just had to get a delivery of groceries yesterday and kinda the same thing for me when i got stuff back i go like really this was the best cantaloupe in the store. Was it really. You have two teenagers taking all the stuff. So i mean really. That's the best we could find. Well a they okay. I ordered to heads of lettuce. Okay i know the leafy green lettuce is the one that's best. The romaine is better than the head lettuce. But listen i feel like the head lead us. Right now is safer for me. 'cause romaine is constantly being recalled but this head of lettuce bob could hold in the palm of my hand. I mean come on seriously. That's the best. The store had. So i don't know i i might agree like i'm very excited to go and pick out the best damn tomatoes. I can fine. I'll tell you what i'm excited for. It's not grocery store shop and it's not going to the mall is like taking you out to dinner out to dinner. It's going to be a wall. I know but that's what i'm looking forward to going to our favor place Not worrying about anything or anybody. That's what i'm looking forward. Yeah so everybody is still pivoting. That's the word everybody uses. I mean i guess. I feel bad because a lot of people are like that. It's so basically. They're like. Oh i just want to pick up my own. And i'm damn. I want a freaking pedicure to go to the mall and smell new clothes i mean. I don't care. I just i'm going to buy might just want to smell them. You know look at the new shoes or just be there you know and and i think with me and i'm going to ease into it. We talked about this. I'm just going to slowly ease into it but all right. I saw something on the news the other day that in our county you know the schools are starting to in our state and in our county. The schools are slowly going back to school in person and i know for some of you who are listening to us from other places. Schools have been back in in person for ever. But we're just again were more slowing into it right. But i did read that like in our cownie do traditional. Proms probably not going to do traditional graduations again this year. This why still feel so bad. Because here's the sich. These kids who are seniors graduating seniors. So they didn't have they couldn't go to junior prom and now they couldn't go to senior prom so they basically had no prom. And i couldn't help but think so our katie. Her junior year she went with a bunch of girlfriends to prom. 'cause she wasn't dating anybody senior year. She actually asked a friend of hers. Who was a girlfriend. They were just going to go. His buddies actually was a huge group of twenty people and we had to get this huge stretch limo for them. It was so much for the kids. They all came to our house after prom. They swam in the pool. They ate an amazingly large amount of food. I'm my girlfriend. And i one of the moms came over and we had cooked like five casseroles and two boxes of pancakes gone gone. I mean boys and girls were there so and there was just there. Were tuck sito's and gowns all over the house. It was like a such a wonderful experience for us as parents because we just love to have the kids there you know and they were having the best time and i mean they got there about twelve thirty. I think prom was over at midnight. They were home by twelve thirty and we knew where they were and the parents knew where they were and most of the girls slept over that night. The boys we told the boys they had to be home by three. They had to leave by three a m and as soon as the boys left the girls collapsed and fell asleep but a couple of the girls went home to but most of them stay overnight and then we served them another breakfast the next day i think it was bojangles or something like that but i just remember so many great memories but katie was with a bunch of she was with a bunch of friends. Some this huge group. Some of them you know it was a guy and girl. Some of it was just girls that wanted to go to senior prom but nobody had asked or they didn't ask anybody and our daughter katie had asked a friend of hers and and then like a week later. A boy from one of her classes asked her and she goes. Yeah we can like go to prom together. But i just want you to know. I'm part of a big group. And i also asked a friend of mine and he's like okay. That's fine well. Her friend is they're dear friends of ours and the young lady had just gone through cancer treatment. She was back at school and she went and got a gown and she was a really good friend of katie's still is volleyball. They were volleyball team. Mates for a few years. Love each other like great great people and i thought about this because this girl actually had relapsed and fought cancer a second time. She's doing great. Now thank god and she's gonna actually. She's going to play ball in in college. Wow yeah she just got accepted so she wound up because katie asked her. Hey come with me. Come with this group. She was able to go her sophomore year with katie otherwise she would never gone to prom because she stuck in the pandemic. She didn't get to go to this girl. She didn't get to go junior year and now she won't get go senior year so had it not been for arcadi asking her to be part of the group. This young lady would have never gone from. And i kind of thought about that and i was like little like low key. Super proud acadia. She's a good girl. You know i was really proud of her for doing that. Because who had who the hell would have known. But it's like you know this is just one of those examples of you know you in the moment you gotta do you gotta do you know what i mean like. Don't don't if you're a good person that's what you well. It wasn't even that but it was like. Here's an opportunity. Do it okay. Don't think about it just do it. You know. I was like really really upping boasts from my opinion. Both of our girls are. They have hearts of gold. Oh yeah they're great people they're just good people and you know with the my birthday thing. You did the video. Yeah i was watching his when the other day. And i thought what i have i have really good people in my life and i didn't realize that dermot birthday thing but i was looking at it again now will this is so personal and so such blessings really good. Yeah yeah ok. Some changing the subject a little bit. Okay so we asked you guys to send us some questions you have and thank you. Keep them coming in us. Whatever you wanna do if you wanna posted under the comments on our instagram or facebook. Do that we've actually answered a couple of so david. Turner said no more mondays. Offer you guys. I need y'all to help me get the workweek going david. I'm sorry about that. And so we've kind of answered that one and then peggy williams law flir. I think that's how you say it again. Sorry i just botched that. So have you both receive your vaccine if so what did you get so we kinda answered that so we got johnson and johnson and we got it thursday and friday. And we're better now. I'm better now. Okay and then okay. So i thought we do one more today because we've gotten a lot This is from. This is off of instagram. What is your pet peeve about one another. How do you refrain from being annoyed with one. Another about that. pet peeve. Listen and what's the most favorite thing about one another okay. Can i start okay. Well that's a good sign. You never get over it. Because the i have i have one thing. Is this the pet peeve this yeah. This is your pet peeve against me. Yeah me yeah all right. It's been going on for twenty seven years. I cannot wait to hear this since we've been married all right twenty seven. I didn't know this were dating. But twenty seven years ago. I suddenly noticed and it goes to this day. Lou will take a shower. I don't hear her do this before the shower. I don't hear her do this any other time but usually takes her shower and night. I'll be in the bed. It doesn't matter where i could be the next house next door. Okay all right then okay. Loo blows her nose. Yeah it is like a freight a freight train and are just kind of dainty. i am not. And so i love you. I love you honey. Thanks. the thing is can't help. God gave me petite nasal passages. We've talked about this before. Mom i gotta let us show man. I don't know how to blow my nose quietly because it senseless to me. Just go like that's senseless to me. Nothing happens i gotta i gotta dig deep man like i got. It's gotta come out. The guy got sinus issues okay. I can't believe that because you have the worst hearing ever. I can't believe you're offended by no constantly. I hear it all right then. Okay is that it yeah. Isn't that where you go now. What's your favorite thing about me. The favorite thing about you is. There's two things. I have never known a person that is caring for all your friends. Me the girls your mom and dad everything. I've never seen a girl. So i mean it's like every day so carrying the new is it. I wished i could be carrying like you. So you know. I think that's that's your that's my takeaway very sweep thank you. Yeah okay. Now turn the pet peeve. I would have to say i let me just comment. That bob's peeve about me is something that cannot be helped anatomically. That is how i'm built. That is how i blow my nose. Girl can't do anything about it. And now i can't closet you could. Do you want me to walk into the closet in my own house to blow my no go go it. It is a big deal done to the costume okay. This latest like four or five feet. Oh my god. Oh my god put an ear plugs. We you know you snort you have sinuses to anyways. My pet peeve against you is something that can be helped the smoking. I cannot stand it i can't stand it because i feel like there's it's always the cigarette i you wake up before you even say hello to me. It's off to the cigarette. Where's bob bob. Where is he. He's out smoking and then say a girl wants a little affection. I can't i can't cuddle. Snuggle hold his hand because everything smells like an ashtray. that would be my pet peeve. I smoked when i first made you. Well congratulations bob. In our seventy twenty. Seven years later. And i still smoke so is fact married to a young man then now old say it makes it different. Now i'm married to an old man who smells like an ashtray. So somehow makes the difference. I don't know and the thing i love about. You is how you can call me down. 'cause i got like a whole lot going on you know i got a whole lot of balls in the air. I'm juggling a lot. And sometimes i just i drop a ball or sometimes it's just way too much now. Add to it menopause. And you know for some reason. You say the word toenail and i just break down in tears or i to rip your head off and you just have a way to be like. Hey let's not worry about it. You know and like even when i'm not a really good i am not a good sick person at all. So it's i don't get sick a lot. And when i do like having the reaction from the covid vaccine i'm mean so lou is a great caregiver. I mean great nurse who's awesome. I gotta say i. I work hard at that. I'm horrible. i'm could have been dying. And he didn't care he didn't check on me could not even not a bottle of water until i came out of the room crying. Are you gotta care about me at all or take arab and i'm what i thought you were slave sure. Yeah because you know. I'm such a sleeper. So but i will say so at all like that going on and then the hormones and half the time i couldn't i had a fever or if it was just a hot flash and bob just of calms me down. Hey you're fine. Don't worry about this just going to be a couple of days. That's what it even says on the paperwork two to three days you may not feel very good but that just means it's working. Don't worry about it. You're gonna be fine just you know. Everything's good so i mean. He just has a way to do that. So i would say that is my pet peeve and my favorite thing about you so there you go. We love the question. Yeah and the same comments and all of that but meanwhile lest we forget happy saint patrick's day. Did you know where saint patrick's day comes from saint patrick's thinks the legend has it that he taught the people of ireland about the holy trinity using the simple three leaf clover to represent the father the son and the holy spirit. We don't okay. The the luck of the irish is real thing. But don't know anything about that but you can get your irish blessings today so there you go and you must wear green because of the green shamrock. There you go okay. Lesson learned. I guess so happy saint patrick's day. Personally i'm polish. But i'll wear the green even though it clashes with the blonde hair polish. I mean saint patrick's day. You're irish is a no but you always used to get pinched because you look like a damn leprechaun. He's to red hair. Yeah i mean you were. Maybe you are a leprechaun. Maybe i'm sure you got any lucky clovers over there anyway. I love you bobby blue. Y'all thank you so much for listening to us. Tell all your friends have them. Listen we've got some really cool stuff coming up to that we're going to be doing with the podcast. We'll tell you all about that coming up at. Make sure you're still staying tuned because we'll be continuing to answer all your questions. Yeah all right love you guys.

headache johnson bill de emma bob dumez mykonos bravo bob lou katie fever shits creek arlanda island saint patrick mediterranean Bob bobbin
Episode 15  Zack Henry

The Rugby Abroad Podcast

40:35 min | 6 months ago

Episode 15 Zack Henry

"Welcome back everyone to fifteen of the rugby abroad podcasts. We've had little break but On the ten on breezy one of the incoming names in english rugby at the moment. it's not henry. Thanks for joining us on. The podcast mate is great to see the go back a long time and so well tearing up in english rugby how he may get to see you get to be on spent a while. I'm doing well thanks. They just keep him busy during the lockdown training. I'm doing a master's in sports. Psychology and psychologists are less keeping me busy and cracking on al-sumait. Well as you know the the podcast is about your experiences abroad. So i just wanted to get your urine sightings of trump it. How did you out how. How did you go from playing in england to play in france. Yeah it was a bit of wordstar moser university of ball. And i wanted to play play professionally and i thought i had the ability to buy. Didn't have any offers in. England had no no options and luckily my coach off was friends with richard hill. The acting len's grandma who is coaching stale ass in ruins in. They rim fed one at the time. She's the federal republic but now they're in thirty two and he said like oh. We're willing to take old actress season to see what he's like. So i went for a season played some fair division problems such good experience and i ended up staying for four years and then yeah Now back here. Obviously fluent in french with full full-year fluent in french a massive help especially playing ten hide Especially nevada saw my bugs a bit. Nice especially about. We allow the time in my first season to nine. Who didn't speak any french. And it's well whose english was very good. It was good to learn also so important loves to to switch between the himself east side in fed one. And how do you say that saw them fed one or two years In the first year we still have won the trophy. John pratt which was like that. It wasn't a pouilly time. We it's like winning winning the fat. But they didn't get promoted or something. Yeah winning the fed one. But you don't have the like a field things necessary to get promoted and then we got to the final and could have got promoted. We were really ready to get promoted. But we lost the doubleheader final and then signed for nevada for two years in thirty two but not one team. It was amazing because we rim fed one but there was some absolutely legendary blogs. We had such a good team a good core like english guys which we were in a coup and then we also had like some big players. Xiang thomas who plays for bristol tomasco new call. So now we have. Multi-role had wales caps and stuff say ideas. Yeah i remember ashley that year that you were in ruins. Obviously than of france Throw away from where. I was playing jazzy. I'm sure and i'm sure. I saw you on the island once or twice. Yeah think we cross paths a little bit. We had it was quality because you got it was like three or four weeks on and then a week and in those weeks off we could like go anywhere. Do anything and yeah. I think of them weekends. We went over to jersey and how to the mob on earth may have any of that. Yeah i think it was probably on a night one. Then we say to say the least and say that now that option presented itself in front was that was that more you taking a risk and gun out. That was then taking a risk on year. When you spoke to richard hill. I think it was about. I think firstly. I just had dropped from academy when the uni rupe ended up with the french and stuff. But i you couldn't be more thankful for ruled about. I think it's given me such good life experiences. And i'm out to the so happy with dot but i think it was a massive risk for me. I think my even like telling my family always backed by the decisions. I've made tell now going to this club in rural and you google drew on the an honesty. Light a picture of like a park. We'd like to run the. I think what you want to be a professional rugby player in this but something about the way. Richard presented it to me and at the time. He signed me as a second team. Bad luke cousins. Who's one of my really good mates now. The second intent and it was almost like they do me a favor giving me a year abroad to problem. The problem with your name of the was doing favor like just giving me a year out. There ended up playing loads and of c- like catching the eye approach to teams. And then from there and all of the you mentioned you had like a good grief is was there some good experiences any night and great memories made stories to tell it honestly my first year out there was just absence and it was the bodies. Were quality red such guitar on weekends in jersey and stuff like that but yeah it was obsolete mental. Those things we had we had a semi final against accommodate against but pro big game and for me and my career. This was huge. It was husband knockout rugby semifinal to go into the fed one final buzzing and richard heroin classic richardo fashioned organize a prison visit for like the wet the game on saturday on a wet prison visit and women are like chuckled around with some the well behaved prisoners prisons like i think he's known him. I like the worst crime is like paypal. You're not terrorists and stuff and we were like. We were playing this rugby. Just doing a you drove and we ended up in a game of touch and charlie serious hair and ready to go on crackle. And it'll be fine. Get in there in the ended up like getting being food. Beth generally remember. I've taken the ball out of the nine and one of these. Prisons is flying out flown out on. That would be. I'm we're on like this. Rock solid asteroids. I with lying on the floor. Author mass-circulation another larger. Just laughing richard laughing. And i'm like this can't series. We've got seventy dollars but you go to planet. Yeah made it back. I made it through and one actually i. I said surf few friends the oncoming on this Remember any funny stories or anything. Allied one of them that stood out with all. Snc win. He was always trying to do a good job near on the on the nutrition side of things which obviously in france is a tough ask. Lunches were weren't exactly to stein one time we came out and we had training in the afternoon and we were eating about forty five minutes before training and the man who was about the cowboy but announced the legend of gray. It will out like a rum cake and it had so much on the let boys eaten this wrong and it tasted alcohol. And he's are in the. Sec coaches come downstairs. And he's he could smell the alcohol from walking in the door and lattes annoy in that before trading and boys are out there training with their stomachs rum. Kate legitimate professional. Yeah every week. That was something that was absolutely not a we just we. Just reveled in reached loved the the is like fashion rugby's in france is just a different story in egypt. You just armed for my experience. They you have guys just like literally go walking out from the changes to training just making facts the front coming back in putting that cigarette. Pack out of pocket. Literally on the wayne's instead of cigarettes is incredibly speak on top fourteen because of not played there but pretty tune fed one. I try and explain to that. Some of the two boys robbing chat and telling stories. I some of the stuff that goes on. But i feel that you have to see it to believe it. Like everyday is like in england. I've been at leicester pretty much every week every day. There's nothing nothing to out of the ordinary happens. Return things a proper. We try and we play a game on the weekend and proper and in france once a week twice with stuff would happen like you say just like coach is offering up boys cigarettes and then we go into people's and then we gonna video room and he's pointing out. How people aren't fit enough. Getting around the corner as is that doesn't add up to go to experience and it's also like the advice of given to friends who have gone out since you have to get on board with. It does not every bridge. Person or kiwi ozzy arlanda. It goes over there and tries to change things. They don't succeed stressed end up leaving and having a crap experience laugh along with gilmore with it and find it funny. Because you're not gonna you're never gonna change things but was the stack up from from this kind of a federal one level to pregnancy was a big big difference. Obviously the the french. I'm still the same but a difference in level a hundred percent priority to actually. Just get such a brilliantly like the the experience is unbelievable. The training ground light we had was insane the loudest so much money in it. Tv rights. the fact is the fans. This packed stadiums every week. The passion and it's not just like people watching a rugby game plan. The band that the big shots imposed around the stadium that so invested and the players in that so the standard of rugby. Good but i think the thing that mrs is a level of professionalism but if in terms of enjoyment stuff win away days embarrassed or in perpignan bail or soft brave Playing in those stadiums like tiny up in the bus and the fans olot lined up on. It's it's such a cool experience so it was a step up but it was. It was unbearable experience. And that that's step kind of lead you back home in a in a big circle whether it wasn't a contract before when you came out of universal any any kind of of easy going on a journey come full circle and ended up back. Let's titus house on has not been not been another step up. You mentioned the professional Or the professionalism of of the team is has that as your pretty to experience led nicely into the into being in the premiership. Yeah well. I think like what what party gave me was just game time and as a young ten who had no opportunities in terms of that light. It was invaluable. I just played so much rugby weekend. We count learnt so much i am. I always said. I don't want to be an english player. Who plays that whole career in france. I would like to hopefully got permission cop. One day that was always drape felt like the right songs. Come back had some really good conversations with club and ended up coming back But the levels here. I think there's two steps really because it's the step up premise. Yet but then also the new regime. Mike came in a time where i think it was a transition period at tigers coming in state both wait bringing a really high standards and trying to get his club back to where it previously was. It's been it's been a double step of land so much like sorry much in such a short period of time the intensity of training how we were can everything is so different So like challenge on bob lovely chatting but yet definitely a massive massive step nothing. You've not not your hundred already having a hundred points for the points and it was on. We had a european game against comment on the weekend and twenty. It's targets appearance. Cosi managed to not talk quietly games with tom buzzing about And the best way today is through the training and stuff. Brilliant but being on the page which surrounded by brilliant players in these pressure situations of mistakes. And maybe barra's book you learn so much. Was that with our options at the time before he decided to move to stay in france. Was there anything interesting. That those it's it's a weird one because of a went abroad and then all of sudden offers an opportunity since this is almost like people denied that they want what they call them. Have almost you elsewhere some and all players out there but when i was at union i guess no one really really just a few office. That was a few offers in france. a few snaps from top voltairian and the pro fourteen in life. You are the press club. the conversations. I have with tigers the called. They came out to frong some watch the game and we had a good chat and stuff like that and there was That experience did you. Did you know that. Yeah it was. Cole i mean they. They chose the province away game so they knew what they were doing. Because that's obviously the best ball in france surreal. I'm so bad just doing while. We and i mean the prevents stadium and there's life got by representatives from leicester tigers coming up to watch and potentially make assigning. So that was that was really co- experience And i saw him on the back of that and then sort of the end of the season with never we were flying. It was the most is probably the most of ever enjoyed my rugby just in terms of that week. And we don when things click. I don't know what it was but we're flying we're winning. Some mental game require time also as a team appro whether the week off after we'd be granola but hiring which thought immense who game the stadium and things rockin. He's crazy he can you say accent just for the grenoble says grenoble grenon one. That won that game and then i took. I think it was eleven french boys. Most of whom speak zero england. We go on a fly in the morning. It was made my irish. Might frank bradshaw who stood at nevada now and then like the game on the poll on this. Some stories is a but we took ten of us. Eleven of us to london. Going airbnb in london bridge and we would air flight three days and it was anneke. Thought it was so funny letting these fringe boys like louise for the for the weekend was was phenomenal. Is unbelievable you uni a few times back in the uk. If you get the feeling. I definitely get the feeling that there's more more guys look looking for opportunities off the enormity finding a hub will normally find them in the uk and more more guys are interested in going abroad. Yeah do you think do you think. That's reflection on the on the game in england or this thing if you buy i if you look at problems. They've got forty eight teams fed juan all of which all of them are professional other notch. You know the statistics said at least fifteen of professional maybe ten fifteen even the ones that have like brilliant stadiums like pretty good facilities. Like they'll get a good fan base. Your play some good rugby. An purdy to is obviously the second division which has like like massive fans. Tv rod good players are all that sort of good money sustainable money and then talk teams of But in england you've of got the academy system which is how i can only speak on younger. But pick the big lads late developer odd skills and stuff like that but wasn't in any physical can. I'm still annoying any physical by While and then. So if you don't make academy you go the uni route which is brilliant and away from rugby brilliant degree and stuff. I la but then you've got the champ of the moment you look in a naga. Ns sustainable salary. You're looking at. How many teams have paul time in the champ. Now the pitch is the the crowds like. It's a prime clubs really looking into the champ as a pathway to players from given contracts. I'm not and as you know my brother very well. And he spent his majority of his career in the champion his his experience a mental. I mean he could write a brooklyn some of the the savage stuff that happens to him in the trump thing options wise when you come out of unit and utah go. I think you're lucky to have missed that chapter the championship chapter which which i certainly for for one year which was it is an interesting experience is something that at the time. When i was playing in the child it was. It was a bit more professional than what it is. Now that was almost all the teams that offer my thing. Not year richmond. Were woefully professional. Now there's only three or maybe four. Maybe five a fulltime so your options are limited. Say as you finish in. Especially if i feel like i can't speak on the champ myself but like with my brother just like in terms of like when you finish uni students you don't have any leverage like clubs can literally been all pay like five grind. Take you on ebay. All says there was just so much when i got there. There was so many club sermon experiences so many different areas seven and the thing is the popular light. You could say. France the bigger country. Which is the population or the same and are the few in rugby in england women to be one of the biggest in the world and stuff. So it's like motorola like a southern southern hemisphere model and kind of stephanie. Seems like it is in terms of the professionalising the gain across the board apart. From if you're at black tilts up level bit brit pro premiership and you can go light academies and universities kind of will make up the the the next level of players which were being essentially like and an amateur championship. Seems that's the way it's going. Which is israel shame because it takes up love of genes away from guys. The up know about going abroad but they will end up losing out on on players and maybe maybe they could have free for years. More and speaking tomato got plenty amaze who are unbelievable. I really talented rugby players. Who haven't necessarily look in instead of seeing that property to model seeing how even though we were in the second division in france treated like crap and players in all aspects of light beer like the social aspects of being no test and being like having muslim not all the rugby at the training ground facilities. What insane the fats led the contracts gray and you get given a call and you get looked often in health insurance. The medical side of things. Like if that was brought into england the amount of talented rugby players in england. That would that would be. It'd be such a good spectacle. Did it wouldn't matter if it's less to be or whether it was. I don't know how reverses london scottish slight you could create a model but allowed for that to be fixed that people wanting to watch it would require that interested in the investment is probably not getting at the moment. Yeah always eases. World just isn't interesting championship rugby and the look at the crowds. Go to games and stuff and you look when they championship won't be on tv. How many viewers getting maybe. It's just it's just not possible in england right back out unless the thing about franz. It's it's almost like like fed. One team will be playing the bottom of the table. Clash relies not ready. You wouldn't see as a big match if you're a big if you're in english rugby finding you talk for. Tatum may be pretty but to the five but locals that will come out their masses to support the team to a big game numbers and stuff like that. It's just more the culture over there rugby's just massive gunpoint. Local team never isn't it's the population of nevada was thirty five thousand but with almost ten thousand every game going and really invested so yeah i played a few times is one of the best atmospheres properly in the league at a good powell that as class. So what was the plan for. Euro see saudi nicely. You go george fort. Obviously bobby in the packing a. How's that playing on the summer with his experience whereas co it's it's mental but the thing is this year i think he's only played two games because he's been away within the headlight. The autumn nations coppola code. And then christmas we had like two games. Cove it at all and then you had the six nations. So he's not really been here that much training with him and playing with him. Not just him. Like richard wigglesworth. Young's all these boys in the backline From learning what you can. There's just stuff being fed one. Being unique fed federal purdy to auto these boys have been with the best coaches in the best regimes and stop by the lost years. This story much mass than so much on a roll with training and playing with these guys is is brilliant and then in terms of going forward contract this year next year tigers and then who knows take weight by week see see what the future holds awesome awesome and could not include guy. Yeah i i haven't obviously you never know about what's mad about this game in the boy speak about equality. How quickly things change is up and down. Left and roy is very unpredictable. ball i would. Yeah in my head. Awed definitely liked to finish my career in france or go back and spend some time that it was just well. When i say franz rugby gives the chance to experience anything there's so many countries with so many cool things to office on definitely someone who likes to travel a bit and experience some things but at the moment i'm loving the challenge of the prime and seeing how i can see in how can keep doing that will mate. What would you give as as advice to someone like who was in a similar position to coming out of uni or thinking about going to you without any options to to turn pro. That was that united our objective or but but maybe there was something that sniff abroad that could that could lead to selling cillian special. What would you Would you advise the mosey you mentioned. It was kind of a funny things to your parents against this remote location in fraud tonight with They stay those with with with someone. Get that kind of reactions. They will get guns. That families telling night of the of the in the middle of europe. Like i think i gave the first thing i would say. Gametime like you'd have to get game time because there's only so much learning you can training you learn so much from. I think one game is worth Like weeks of training. And i just think so gametime so any club or anywhere that's providing. You came time that she talking to. I'll go who's been loaned out from prime clubs which i'm club when we were talking about even that can seem like a step backwards bit. It's not as game time at. You've bed play rugby. Just play rugby. Soak up play as much can is funny. It's funny you say that may go on certain sir just mentioned this point that that in the current situation we're in we go guys like the having played in like a year and you mentioned the importance of of gametime. We've had obviously the covid situation and so many leagues like good leagues good levels being canceled the federal one like eat the platen and the the in england totally can so guys are lacking in the area and some united remote leagues in europe. Been playing like where i am in italy. We've been lucky enough to be playing this year so yet. Sorry i'll let you continue point base. It's just an interesting one hundred exactly agree with you like get gametime life. If you're serious about a rugby career is just about getting game on. But second the odds is i think a lot of people have back here. People are want to go to. Franz sounds amazing and blah blah the the actual john and understandably the actual jump to move country especially at twenty twenty. One win over you. Know is living in england ever gun holiday times. I is a daunting thing. But what like and at the time. It was definitely daunting for me But like i said let my family initially like what he doing and then after a few weeks they were sold like that. It's given me a fair. When i retire and stuff the fact i can speak friends to franson got so like some. Some people will cost the best mates now. A fringe people. Why people in another country. I would never have had divide have stayed in. Stayed in england Denotes it's given me so much more than i could ever reports away from rugby. Initially the jump can be tough. And the star of learning a language stuff can be tough but arkan's a whole new world and nevada. I think we had twelve different nationalities at the training ground and stuff so that opportunity to learn about the wildland about different people. All of is just massive rather than slogging out trying to fight for an academy position south. La belle are always advise just making the jump. Yeah i guess so you can play games. Say it's not that important. So of not just saying the third fourth choice or fighting for scraps as important being expresses up on on the pitch. You say it's it's is worth way more than than three weeks of training. Just just match one star in some bit of confidence from the coach. Did you have any periods while you're over in france where you won't play and he didn't have the backing of now i was lucky actually are To to go home really well with And managed to get games on the only time i didn't was when i injured myself. And do you remember seeing the photos of mitee and forty snap majority hof and lost kilos because it couldn't eight for about six weeks without but starts yeah through injury that was tons of imply but no i was lucky enough to to Games and games like playing like when teams pappy on brave la. Hoya next these teams grenoble when they when they come down from top four team but they keep their team together like there was a low man. Twenty one twenty two playing away in their stadium in front of like fifteen thousand twenty thousand whatever those experiences are. Let's say. I did not get a championship. Contracts and being the third choice Ten in the town of never had that so in terms of decision making pressure kicking under pressure to prepare me for the premiership hearings. He's just show evaluating this point so not with france is the when when they go is how different attitudes towards home and away fixtures and parts. When when you're just starting out if your knee player in a club that always you in it for the away games because the whole much. Obviously so important isn't it and the away match is is so of like a guy is in of that we put in a good shot blocking good shift but it's not the result of end of the day. It's not it's nowhere are fans so pain for their season tickets for those those matches research the key so you are going to get an opportunity to play in those massive stadiums. I remember my ear for us and feed matches just that you just drops in it and it's just unbelievable to me. That grenoble was actually my first away. Game franson is a expedia six eighty or stadium. And there's this other thing. I was going to say which is. We're we're oversee both fly hoff's and there's there's a view kind of like unspoken thing fronts the. There's like an extra trust in an english. Ten of i deny maybe you've had a similar experience in that kind of being in english then in fronts and that responsibility that comes with it. Yeah i think they expect. They almost expect foreigners to with foreign as your saw. Not you live by the so da by subway. You get entrusted so much more because they know that foreign wait ten to you like enjoy training. Enjoy going to the gym. We do stretching on the sideline all that sort of stuff because they know were more fashionable and they also like the fact that we bring a bit of structure to it because it's so lose that when they do get british tan they liked the you can bring that english side of structure to things but they also expect you to be the best at all times. i never make a mistake and novela. So when you do you let you trusted more light. You say but if you make him as the foreigners can get That could be no foreigners playing and the boys get pumped by forte. The coach will be the foreigners. Why did we play crowd lights going at the foreign. And it kind yeah. It's it's a double edged sword but going back to what you were saying about away mentality like firstly about to what we were saying about gametime. Yeah you will get game time because even if your third choice tunnel ever they'll they'll chunk you start you every other week when it's big games away from home to save their starting ten so even if you don't think your vote you can end up not in twelve fifteen games. A season easy But second year the awayday mentalities and saying we be It was for nevada. We add first game of the season in my first year. Bomb breath home. And we'd be am. I think it was like fifty four six or something obscene pumped in. Just come up from fed. One nevada established By brilliant easy and then we played them at their place and we lost and it's just like it was the same teams saying on a rugby pitch to posts and some a they don't even bring it closer that to win the game and it's just like is meant on our it remember. I'll work named because bid the ultimate judas bar. We were We had an away. Game prevents loss season. It was and we were. Petro and i genuinely felt like we were going to beat them. We had already animal home. We had a pretty good team and we feeling good had a really good week's training had already won a few games on the bounce and we plan prevents. We're on the bus down and we were services. One of the one of the franchise was fag cigarette round the back and i remember talking swim and we were talking about getting some time on forever. Yeah well obviously. We won last week win this week. And then bubba and he stopped was going to stop you right there now. Would you remain. And he was on. Give out zack. We talk about it was obviously. We're not gonna win tomorrow. And i believe and this is like a big time player in the team. I cannot believe that that is your mentality going into game. And if if all the french leads all day at that mentality than obviously you're never gonna get a result so it was bizarre. Not yes. it's crazy. I wrote my first season in the party to plan for massey who just promoted in paris and they were like two of the whipping boys or you'd expect them to be the whipping boys but we will Pretty much almost unbeaten the entire season against like all the big name cloud they. They'd come blase. Cheat the french coming in just like expecting to lose an think only a couple of teams the talk to manage to tennis and it was like the last game of the season we played against I think it was knob on a big club. In the south of france an mossy needed at burns point win to to stay up in the party too for the following season and doug at. It's not easy to get balance. Point wins as united apprentice dislike different roles just scoring four. Tries you go to score three tries. In the other side i think and And so obviously there's this connie light magical thing that they have the being done just means they literally are willing to die for the for the show which is like completely the opposite. You go away from home. Runs just not playing playing cards smoking on the bus. And you know we could care less and just such a jets position in it of a about digits. Well i think one of the leads the other day actually asked me what the what the playoff situation is reportedly to went through it quickly onslaught right so one one to go directly into a semi final three place six four place five in a quarterfinal the winners of that going to the semifinal against one and two but it's at the stadiums of one in twenty minutes. Yeah it's normally wanting to win and then the was a neutral ground so that's an interesting in but then the winner approach to goes to top fourteen loser of top fourteen come down but then as in accession day which is set lies nuts. Which is the loser of the property to find. Plays the second ball on the top fourteen. The stadium of the thirty two team and you would always expect the fourteen to win that. Because they've been into fourteen gop star players unless you french unless you are friends and then the last three years remember the two teams one every time in mental. Imagine that happening in england with the second ball team playing against the loser of the previous when it was championship playoff. I mean you imagine it would take their blood off. Why wouldn't it wouldn't it. Wouldn't it wouldn't factor say. Yeah that blows my mind but talking of way as the probably my best rugby experienced hell. He'll was this cosmic boy frank. Yoko shot amount Way my last game for nevada ever was barest way and we wanted we want to win and we targeted this guy and we were like lots one away game. We're gonna win this game and we went down there and we had a week off to a demand. Frankly at organized to go to stay at the w in barcelona because i was thinking about several bay area san sebastian barcelona. It was going to be the way planned out and we live if we win that game and then go and do up even if we lose it and go and have all holiday be amazing but if we win it would just be the best thing ever and we will losing ten three at half-time halftime wearing the change of mental boys. Just give everything you go out a second half we pull it back and with about four minutes to go. Frank charges down and schools the try to bring it level and then i hit the conversion to women silly beserk feeling like we go mental. They kick off. we mess up the kickoff. They apparently in front of the stakes to win like clock dead and he shanks it that That beer it's ten pierre ban on you remember him. You're escudo slot once ground. We kick our final weeks ago. We absolutely mentor our name. Any names poor business. It be shocked by a yeah and then like when like bears embarrassed then down to san. Sebastian flew to boss alone. If there's unbelie snapping up let's be honest asking. Let's be honest some unbelievable sports. The plans like places. I'd never even heard of sandler's i've never heard the words sanders in my life. And now i wanna retire that it is. Yeah we went lie. We'd get a week off rugby. Assad will get wyckoff. Go into shammy each unbelieveab- dot. Yeah the south places. No one's ever heard of and it's sort of like inbetween to big cities you have heard of just these little hounds or these that like replayed san delusion in fed one in france and it's right on the border and the day but we got a taxi to san. Sebastian spent the day in san sebastian on the beach. By having the best time. I felt like i was on holiday. And then back to send on the loose and played rugby game and stuff and it was just some of the sports. You are just absolutely unbelievable. Say made ahead of rugby experience that you had it. Sounds like abroad and sounds like you one day probably thinking about heading back abroad and it's been awesome to have you on the podcast. Absolute fifteen is going to be massive massive head less tigers fans. Hopefully we'll get to poke around your. I'm sure you are. You have to make happen. I really appreciate go at a heavy schedule of training. I think we've been trying to organize that three weeks. We have myself. And i walked. None of it's been your phone. It's all been either apologize but so good catch up brother. Yeah also a really really really grateful for your time and ivan catch up saying and say how you going on Coming into the season. Nas what i talked to you saying. Yeah you can. Subscribe to the costs. That rugby abroad dot com. Thanks for listening in. Join me for the journey.

rugby france england nevada richard hill moser university of ball John pratt Xiang thomas luke cousins richardo rim kiwi ozzy arlanda fed frank bradshaw franson jersey richard london len
Episode-10   Tenali Ramalinga "  -  "Telugu kathalu - kids stories - Chandamama kathalu - moral stories - comedy stories

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06:24 min | 5 months ago

Episode-10 Tenali Ramalinga " - "Telugu kathalu - kids stories - Chandamama kathalu - moral stories - comedy stories

"Metallica slog at them they nali malinga lucas addie. Krishna neighbor iowa. Idaho in you to you dump jay that i resign near blow up blow to negotiate with a char cinetic under la. You inca deniger lavar. Ooh demagogic with alani equity yanin in exchange narrow that up woo look vigo-la. Better kuku narrow you muddle. Petero gelo. Beloved a nikki. Monte portion of the aninda ni bolenga deity island could not good mehta. Syam twitchy market portion Couple aena ni the mirage loan. Nevada gate delicate. Gooderham up when i that go by the hindu by louis jagr written maple. Monday biology through mope animal In adulthood garage aggregate data without uncool narrowed is lavar. Said it ally login cicconi mud. Nardi tyrod gm denture. John machado uploaded lavar Godown need you're not you're better media. jagr dynamic bali undergo year. Cut you local. Gano may connecticut by the hindu pilot. Police stan monday. Jetta dunakey in canal lagarto in the yellow gonna granola neighbor. Langata valley nilo kazadi. Mimi good But she nevada's iranian disarray. An-any the local granny by the hainer. Rubio is gonna be under the obama to ramalingam gouda. Goodra mideast Arlanda anitta day. Now remember landau data to jc donnie. Yet give i do that. Madam magoo radical monty up at big venture to narrow vanni martyrdom benefits you gorani hookah chico develop dylan gerald gadecki motiva- pula suet immonen tobia. Gemina lakewood Nago viable mataram with on doug. Linda row ju goo goo pedagogy d'amato minding gerardo inter-committee. Bob danika evaded individ. Data god Dating ingram java kunda tacona allegation To the dominating martyrdom lavar Via lou than indicate. You could nod in fellow a little table in good physical below of our lou Erica you'll put dial undergrad. said genetically dominant with chad jacob. negro madama lingam. Anada gadot lavar. Nago now matter. We need to undergo radical big. Naga may boggling donny. Merely to nobody noodle by incorrect idol agitated evasively danecki monty monty. Donna gentil geogra- juice nanna latitude at omitted the pro boy in the danecki bhargava glow victims On the knee. Click dave's them. Not that i was at among those state. Monogram alantic niagara net abdullah any pension at the nikkei landau. Good remind allan within the anomaly set in any of the lucca knee that hamilton convict berudi lavar evening. That you neath made it that baracuda endeavor letter ramalingam conon then a luna jayco dakota rickety ladder by the day gonna it will bullet undergoing dan knee iga look at santa job. I alabama lingam. Connie contrada cricket umberto. Motor them when the konaga ran into. Dominique antelope elevate allah until elevated molo. I got done gold dot com to lucky boy in the isolate indicate mohammed canal underneath salvageable. Got danny at legitimately take damn on coney noto got dig up. You wouldn't be bottom akan Who your murderer. Managing the literal cottam was over any good glad. Danny delta now made the local hour any morente unit in the bottom garnier to pullover Rambling tamasha. To student east. End the alvetina via Bandini rilot legit counterpart to novice the you said Binchy konaga dumped a In job that Being tissue said Cheeky when the yarmulke political ni you pluto incas Wouldn't the dry lavar icke to assist Rambling vanja good letter. C. two year medina. Malinga me anada get a young galata joel stern in not without a identity. They nealer lake down. Ula back to jump it. In the in the bogut key bob of monogamy to indigo eka of lending independent on day. They need to have a girl diane. I'm not dominating when jim gouda netherlands. Arnie as the amanda either doing negotia levada career to now ottawa. Gee aguaruna Keeping chat abortion Vena cava manorama lingam Malayan at takata.

lucas addie Petero gelo Syam twitchy Gooderham louis jagr lavar Nardi tyrod John machado lavar Godown Langata valley nilo kazadi hainer ramalingam gouda Arlanda anitta jc donnie Madam magoo gerald gadecki immonen tobia Gemina gerardo inter
Shannon Goodman with Lifecycle on Georgia Podcast

Pro Business Channel

31:34 min | 1 year ago

Shannon Goodman with Lifecycle on Georgia Podcast

"All right we're getting set for another episode of the George Podcast. Rich cazenove here at Arlanda studios on the pro-business got Shannon Goodman in the studio. She's the executive director of life cycle building centers since two thousand twelve. This is going to be an interesting conversation. It's a little out of the box in doing some good stuff for business and the environment so Shannon what are we talking about? Today's episode. Thanks rich so we are going to be talking about the exciting opportunities that come from reusing buildings and building materials for those that want to learn more. They can visit our website. Which is Life Cycle Building Center dot? Org It's a very. It's not one of those static generic websites. There's a lot going on there. We'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT LOT. That's happening there it's But it's again great There's a great business. Revenue can be generated from this enterprise as well as You know helping Our environment and business and and some cool. Not just that but you look at the photos on your website. It's very interesting very kind of cool. Organic kind of hip trendy Building that comes out of this right. Yeah it's kind of a bit of an adventure you come to our warehouse and you really never know what kind of treasures. You're going to discover so creativity all over the place. We record over there right. The amazing are. That's all coming up on this episode of the George Podcast Ambae. Welcome to the Georgia podcast. Featuring the WHO's who and what's new in Georgia made possible in part by global podcast studios offering podcast studio rentals production and distribution visit global PODCAST STUDIOS DOT. Com and by our friends at serendipity laps co working private offices and more true inspiration at work. Learn more at serendipity labs dot com now join rich cazenove broadcasting live from the pro business channel studios in Atlanta and worldwide across the PD syndicated networks. All right welcome to the Georgia podcast. Rich cazenove here again in our Atlanta podcast Shannon Goodman As we mentioned she's A little bit of your background because we mentioned that you're the executive director of Lifestyle Life Cycle Building Center but in the past What was your Your life history in seventeen seconds or less so I found my way to L. B. C. Through work in architecture firm here in Atlanta for a few years called Perkins and will and they got it and existing building across the High Museum on Peachtree. We found homes for about sixty two tons of building materials. And that's how I met the network that we ended up starting. Lbc WITH SO. It's been quite an adventure over the last ten years. A lot of moving materials going around a lot of dust and all that good stuff so sixty two tons. What do you mean by that? So they were renovating a five storey building as about fifty thousand square feet of Class. A office space and it was filled with great building materials that otherwise would have gone into landfills and we were able to divert that to nineteen different organizations and save them about four hundred thousand dollars wow So without naming nineteen. What are we couple examples of touch organization So folks like Habitat for humanity South Face Institute. Horizon Theater The Atlanta Ballet. Yeah so we talk about repurposing which is a term US right. Get material so What are some of the the easy goto material that like It's kind of a no brainer yet to repurpose on anything. That's modular. So you know things. Like carpet tiles You know light fixtures cabinets Plumbing fixtures that can units like that it can be removed transported easily. They're easy to protect and reuse. It was the biggest challenge of materials. That's a little tougher to kind of re We utilize types of materials. You mean harder to extract reuse reuse. Your let's see so you know things that can't be removed easily so like Installed tile anything. I mean if you think about how things are attached to a building so something is you know literally attached in such a way where it's going to be really hard to detach it that's GonNa make it hard but can you recycle some of that stuff where it okay. That's the other all alternate right. That's right yeah. That's I really appreciate asking the question because a lot of times you know. We kind of have a little bit more of an intermingling of terms between recycling and reuse. And you know we kind of try. To emphasize that reuse is different. Recycling IS SUPER IMPORTANT. Creates a TON OF JOBS. Keep so much material out of the landfill and also generates a lot of great products When they're reconstituted into something new so they work very symbiotically. Remember I I saw some startup event and they were at the start up was taking the plastic bottles. And we're recycling those into t shirt material and such a foreign concept is sound so odd but it's just amazing Not just a creativity but if there's a need to fill it right and alternates to traditional mindset. Is the way we've always done? Things doesn't have to be the way we do things right. Well the beautiful thing about those kinds of examples of their cycling that also parallels with reuse is the tremendous amount of money that can be saved from using those resources and money but employment and jobs an opportunity to talk to us because we're the pro business channels so talk to us about limited the business perspective of this like You know what's the win for businesses whether they have a existing building reach out to you guys What does that look like yet? So we do both commercial and residential projects important. We actually have a partnership with the nonprofit Georgia work's currently for temporary labor support. So that enables us to scale up and down And be kind of Nimble in response to commercial opportunities And basically you know for a business There are tax incentives You do need to have a certified appraiser Trained in assessing building material value Access that but that's an opportunity that honestly a lot of our corporate material donors don't take full advantage of There's also some opportunities. Businesses to differentiate themselves in terms of the story that they're telling you care about environmental impact It's also great. We have a program that gives free betrayals to nonprofits schools and churches and sometimes a material donor can really benefit from knowing where the materials they gave ended up. And what impact did that have in the community or even if it's a homeowner telling that story back to them because I'm looking at some of your pictures on your Your website of the reuse stories. They're just that kind of has when you when you walk into that space. I'm just looking at the photos but when you walk in there I think it has a different organic caught a feel to it. I'd say kind of that hipster kind of feel which is Real current right and I think a lot of people are are You know moving away from the more sterile environment and nondescript whatever net So some of these look like they're co working spaces or the one that looks like either a tree house or a tiny. I can't figure out which one I think I. Yeah I think they actually called it. A whiskey done better open with that one now for that. But I'll take a tour. It looks like it has base. You can sleep there too you too. So what are some of the other than the photos of looking at? What are some of the over the years Pick a couple of stories of you went to this onsite project you took it and you re purpose it at a specific school or Church or House or Offices are either our offices starting to come online with this of give us a couple of stories about that sure absolutely So one amazing partnership that we have is with interface They're actually a carpet manufacturer. That came up with the idea for carpet tile so longtime ago as part of the environmental sustainability challenge of our time They came up with this concept of using tile. So you don't have to rip out the entire squeeze right So last I guess it was about a year and a half ago. We started working with them because they have this amazing program to recycle carpet and they collect more than they can put into production from so one of the we have diverted carpet tile to allot a nonprofit organization One is near us. It's a mystery Baptist church down. Sylvan Hills Down where we are in southwest Atlanta There was another organization that had a food pantry over in SNOWVILLE. There's I think there was a boys and girls club Location gave a lot of carpet tile too. So there's a very long list And I think we're somewhere around. Maybe a hundred thousand pounds of carpet tile so far. But that's going to start to ramp up as we expand the partnership more and I will throw out there that the biggest challenge. We have honestly with a lot of programs like that. A lot of nonprofits don't even know that they. Yeah that's exactly right and there's when there's time I do have another story at Georgia Tech that I'd love to take. We'll make a note of that if we have time. So let's pivot to your mission Because that's what's important behind a business the why what's your wire mission with. What you guys do terror well. Our mission is environmental stewardship community resilience by creating a sustainable life cycle for the built environment. And basically you know the environmental stewardship pieces obvious but I tell people a lot. Sometimes we get a little bit pigeonholed in being thought of as a purely environmentally focused organization. you were talking about economic benefits right And I just kind of introduced a little bit of touch the social benefits to right so you know community organizations That can have a greater can use their limited. Financial resources can spread them further because they're saving a lot of money on building materials when the renovations are construction projects so another area. We haven't really touched on. Yet is workforce development and job training so and even related to that folks that come into our facility Almost half of our customers come within three miles of our warehouse down near Adair Park in West End And so a lot of those folks you know. We're kind of a key component for them to help them maintain their homes. Keep their homes Keep THAT PROCESS. Affordable for a lot of homes in those neighborhoods are being rehabbed as they As the neighborhood start to kind of get developed a little further we have a lot of entrepreneurial. Renovators contractors that you know we're part of their business model because they can save upwards of eighty ninety percent off of what they would pay for new building materials so those are other benefits beyond just the environmental stewardship. Next question I was going to say. What percentage difference versus a new vs reuse so what was that percentage again or so a lot of our materials are eighty to ninety percent off of what you would pay new. Yes so we did. An analysis thinking two thousand eighteen. Our average cabinet set price seven hundred eighty dollars for a whole set of kitchen cabinet so typically thousand dollars. I'm driving down their shop at the store. Yes speaking of shopping on your site. You actually at It looks like the thrift store if you the kind of trendy Kinda cool like a Like you said the discovery center a Treasure Hunt and they got so people retail. You can walk in there. That are open to the general public Tuesday through Saturday. So please don't come and people can drop off donations material donations when we're really well. Yes so we have a drop off services at the facility but we do free pickups. Yeah LOTS OF FREE PICK. And then we also do what's called deconstruction where are trained staff actually go into buildings commercial and residential and physically detached the materials for the building owner and those are typically free of charge. I don't normally like radio silence. Whatever but I'm trying to figure out the catch to this but but I wanna come back to this like your business models. How do you make money in all of these? Share that but again. What's the website one? More time as people are tuning in Listening Life Cycle Building Center dot. Org It looks like you have a facebook. Imagine your instrument photos Kazan visual kind of experience as well right. Just a lot of folks on our in our crude Do a good job of keeping cool stuff on the before and after pictures are measured a cool yes We're always hunting for more pictures of how people reuse arterials and to be honest with you. That's one of the nuts that I wanted eventually crack is. How do we streamline that so that it's really efficient for us because we have limited staff resources? How do we incentivize people to share those stories of anybody out? There has ideas how we can use technology more effectively that that'd be great. Reach out to see you mentioned We're talking about your business model so I mean how do you make money? What's the outlets? It's funny so even with those tremendous Discounts on an editorial 's we are still able to cover about seventy five percent of our operating expenses through material sales So Yeah our budget is somewhere in the range of about eight fifty to nine hundred thousand dollars a year So yeah we're able to cover about seventy five percent of that through sales In in some cases are businesses or you find a property whether residential commercial where it's just For whatever reason almost kind of donated or there's no Exchange where you can just kinda come in and just reclaim all that Are there say that one more time? I'm trying to picture like if you is your site where the properties been abandoned or whatever or just And so whether again residential commercial you come across and they're like hey just take everything and again for the tax will donate all this to you or exchange so we go into spaces. That aren't currently being used. I would say more often than not. We're actually going in the spaces that are still being used a portion of it. We're taking materials out but as I say earlier. The A lot of the commercial donors don't take advantage of the of the tax benefits I'm actually also part of a national nonprofit organization called build reuse and they have a lot of initiatives to kind of help the industry you know move forward and expand and one of those is actually Getting the appraisal system you know kind of demystifying some of that and getting good information out to material donors to help streamline that process and get them the full benefits that they deserve is donors or. I just want to remind our listeners. You listen to the Georgia podcast. You're on the pro business channel with rich castle. We're having a very interesting conversation. This is definitely Little out of the box but a very cool from both the environment standpoint from Volunteer giving back to the community doing some good work as far as a great business opportunity or incentive for businesses. That have a need for their services as we mentioned the tax incentives a number of times at all that information is available at their Web Sites Life Cycle Building Center Dot. Org All right so So Shannon let's Talk a little bit about we. We we touched on community. Impact is anything you want to add to that as far as you mentioned the nonprofits and the opportunities for schools and churches you're Let's talk about some of the events. The champ going on throughout the year and how that impacts the Community Sarah Absolutely. There's a lot of ways to engage with us. We do A couple of open house events and different sales throughout the year. So we have a fall open house and a Spring Open House you can go to the website look at our events calender. For more information we also free classes. Currently we have two types of classes We have do it yourself workshops where you can basically learn how to use power tools and hand tools safely and effectively to build stuff and we use reclaimed materials. So it's things like little free libraries We've done workshop. Were rebuilt wine racks Furniture all reclaimed building materials Then we also have an awesome Relationship with the Atlanta's Atalanta Initiative Where we build community garden infrastructure kits compost bins produce washing stations all out of reclaimed materials. So that's been fantastic. You mentioned these free classes to build a Hat. Learn how to use tools and are built from reclaimed materials That could be kind of like a one of those sip and paint things. Come in and you drink but you probably don't Wanna mix alcohol in combination. We actually do have a board member that wants to bring some friends down and do you know kind of a light. You just crafting. Yes no no power tools needed for this workshop here. We do have one other class as well. It's called a home performance series and this is basically kind of you know helping folks understand the basics of how their homework's from an energy efficiency standpoint indoor air quality and it's essentially you know. How can you save energy by looking at things like the efficiency of your duct work systems? The building envelope itself. How can you make improvements? And we connect them with resources. We work with folks like Georgia power to help them get resources to save money on utility bills just from the retailers perspective. You can come in as a homeowner and if you have a you know a honeydew project that needs to be done to whatever hate. Just send down. Whoever your honey is right go down there. Learn a hands on and then apply in your house because a lot of times with as a homeowner. It's the Ongoing not just maintenance but like upkeep ABC's to the House deteriorate and You know from interior exterior kind of projects. And if you can save eighty percent you know and We're at all in all about empowering members of unity and that diy series has kind of started to branch out into really practical things. Like yeah you can come to. Lv and save a lot of money on purchasing like a faucet a shower heads a toilet etc now. He started to teach people will. How do you actually install those things yourself? You don't have to pay somebody so not only save money on the item. You're saving even more money by installing yourself and you have that pride you know of. I did it myself kind of thing right. That's right. Don't want to be that person. Every time they come over there they're talking about all the extent enough so do you So we probably shouldn't talk about the orange of the blue box stores. Whatever 'cause you're like It's pretty amazing. What you guys are doing especially for. Cut A win win all way around. It's actually pretty symbiotic. Okay to say people come to us. It's not like we have everything under the Sun. Yes there's actually times where people come to us and do projects that they otherwise would never have even taken on because they find some of these things and then they go to the big boxes and get else. They need to do that. Bajic. It's actually. That's cool beneficial both ways. These events the workshops seminars David Doodoo anything off site like at Okay talk to us about some of those. This is perfect because I can also share that. We have an annual fundraiser. Every fall and I can go back to something. We touched on briefly. You're asking about Projects where you've got some cool reuse stories so our last year was held at an exciting building at Georgia Tech. Call the CONDADO building for innovative sustainable design. Look at you as being So this building is pursuing the living building challenge certification standard which is the most robust green building standard in the world. There are no living buildings in Georgia yet. So hopefully this will be getting certified by twenty twenty one And this is kind of new to the southeast So basically one of the cool things that came out of the relationship between like building center and this project there's tons of reclaimed building materials inside this building. I'm talking you know. We worked with them a couple years ago. They salvaged Heart Pine Joys from Tech Tower from the at late eighteen hundreds to make all the stair treads in the main atrium space. You go in the bathrooms and you see his beautiful tile custom-designed Tile Wall and you look at all the little pieces of slate. Those are all pieces of slate roofing that they pulled from the alumni house at Georgia tech another building from the late eighteen hundreds and then our story More directly has to do with all of the nail laminated timber decking panels that you see above you on the Ceilings and the roof So basically they had about five hundred these panels and they are made with two by sixes and two by fours. That are all sandwich together. And one of our board members was the lead from Skanska and he was trying to incorporate Reclaim two by fours. And we had started to salvage those from TV and film sets took us about a year. We have twenty five thousand lineal feet of two by fours and he had a hard time getting folks to bid this piece of the project out of thirteen requested got one bid for one point two million dollars and this is a twenty five million dollars construction project right so he said okay. I've watched life cycle work with Georgia works so he put together his own. Self team of six men from Georgia worked for four months worked in a warehouse on Georgia Tech's campus. They built all those and Lt panels themselves for twenty five percent of that bid and one of those folks ended up getting a fulltime job in construction. So when I talk about you know yes. We have environmental sustainability mission. That's true but there's so much more that can happen beyond that impacts people in their lives. Whatever right yes And the educational benefits of this project all the students and people that will circulate through and learn about these practices. So you're not passionate about. You could see just how you light up talking about. This is awesome that I mean regardless of what your widget is. You're you're you're what you're doing I can really feel the energy as long as you've been at this. I mean it just seems to keep growing each year because there's so many and it's kind of the time has come right right just too much opportunity being wasted. You know it just. Yeah it just has to happen just and and it's not just moving you know One item to across the street is is the. It's the whole story behind it right. I love that you brought that up. Because that's when I made that comment about you know this nut that I want to crack down on. How do we get more? People share their stories that is incredibly motivating people to want to try to go out of their way to help facilitate material nation. More people will use the materials when they see how other people have created these amazing installations and stories. I say after the show we need to drive to Knoxville. We need to get you on a reality. Show for a HDTV Abbott. I mean this is golden. Hdtv right this would be a perfect show for that. Let's see the visuals of your huge massive warehouse in the actual projects you've done and there is a precedent. I think there's a show. I'm not much of a TV watcher. But there's a show called salvage dogs it's Da Wgn S. Can't remember where their base but that is something that you can find I mean on. Hdtv THEY DO. They do those. Who Those Home Remodel Project. But not scale we kind of lament the joy That that is witnessed from the Demo Day all destruction Janas. We'd like to see a de Conde Dame de Conde but I mean We've had some people will talk off air because this is I mean this is right for that content and the audience and then it would help your mission to like getting the word out. Once you're on that platform I mean It's game over right But then you gotTa Start Selling Merchant Autographs. And so you got to quit your day job yet. It's a whole complicated thing because we only have a few minutes left so we kind of rapid fire through these relatively quick So talk to us about your partners I think you probably mentioned a couple of those but any shots. Let's see so we talked about interface. Georgia works is an important one the city of Atlanta. What I would like to emphasize is that we are Starting kind of on a new frontier Working with the SIV Atlanta the office of Resilience Around the workforce development piece so last year we started an initiative of kind of bringing together some stakeholders that have influence over. What happens to buildings when they're being torn down voted So we're talking about contractors and folks that work in the Planning Department Demolition companies recyclers architects etcetera. And we have started this program To Start Deconstruction Training Initiative. And what's really interesting is. It's led to conversations with folks that are working in affordable housing There's a huge need We have such an equity problem in Atlanta An access to affordable housing. So we've kind of put out there this idea of you know. There's a lot of opportunity to get more. Affordable units online faster by incorporating reclaim building materials and basically having the dollars that are going toward affordable housing go further. So that's something we're starting to explore in the city's instrumental in that. We only have a couple minutes left here so It relatively quick Some call to actions so your your Your volunteer opportunities and we want to wrap it with your future. Goals sure So volunteer opportunities. There is a whole page dedicated to that on the website Individuals can sign up through a platform called sign up and sign up for shifts. Whether it's you know a one offer On a regular basis We also have lots of opportunities for groups so that corporations church groups things like that We do those throughout the year And then there's our Gordon Advisory Board So we're always looking for folks You have to start on the advisory board first before you move to the board. Yeah absolutely so. That's another way that people can get involved okay and then There's a donate button on your website as well. I noticed what right absolutely. Yeah we appreciate appreciate. Don't have the time or don't you know they're not but they inspired by the message. They you know you'll take checks or cash absolutely and you know like you hear a lot of nonprofits say Sometimes it's R- it's easier when folks sign up like as a sustaining member where it's just a monthly commitment because you just don't feel it as much and the reality is. I talked about that. High proportion of our revenue stream coming from material sales But really the limiter to our growth is actually expanding our fundraising Because that's how we bring on more people so I talked about the free pickup services the d-conn services we are just on the precipice. We have a couple of Open positions currently both on the deconstruction and the Reuse Center side And that's critical because we're on. The edge of being able to have two teams go out simultaneously do pickups and deacons and we need to be able to expand that and I don't know if we really emphasizes throughout the show but 'cause we talk about the business application of this and how you operate as a business owner but this is actually a five. Oh One C. Three so not just the tax donations but You know whether you donate money or effort or materials and so forth but yeah maybe we need to have you back for an update If you don't get stolen from HDTV for our we launched show while back Nonprofits Nonprofits so we may tell that. Tell the story updates so finally a future goals. What's anything Cook in? Any scoops can close us out with here absolutely so we have been working for a couple of years toward a renovation of our hundred-year-old seventy thousand square foot warehouse. It's a really beautiful space. You might not be able to tell when you visit you know looking at it from the street for the first time when you come inside you see amazing it is so we are working on some fundraising efforts in associated and sociation with that Big Project so we definitely. This is a time where we really need support there and then that other piece the deconstruction training. That's a big focus for us. We want to start by training forty individuals and deconstruction and the only limiter there is we want to achieve as high of a possible job placement rate as we can If at all possible we want to hit seventy percent job placement rates of what that means is we are on the hunt for employers who see the value of these skills people being able to remove materials intact for reuse. So that's what I wanNA hear. People that are interested in hiring folks that have those skills move. It would put you in touch with T- Rubicon view familiar with them. I am I don't have strong relationship there. But I would love that we've had the southeast regional person in the studio a couple of times and it's just a fascinating story. That's their whole mission is to deconstruct these Zones or a natural disaster. What have what have you? They come in and just demolish the whole thing and then allowing the next team. Whoever it is to come back and rebuild but lots of times you see. Obviously you can't rebuild with all this destruction. So that's they come in Get it back down to Ground level and then leave but leave it. I'd love that connection. We'll talk off air. So we're we're out of time for next time again. Ritz cazenove WanNa take our guest Shannon Goodman for being in the studio again you can check them out at life cycle building center dot Org. You'll see on the next episode of Georgia podcast on behalf of the pro business channel. We thank you for listening to the Georgia. Podcast featuring the WHO's who and what's new in Georgia made possible in part by global podcast studios offering podcast studio rentals production and distribution visit global PODCAST STUDIOS DOT. Com and by our friends at serendipity labs co working private offices and more true inspiration at work. Learn more at serendipity labs dot com join rich Casanova for the next Georgia podcast and download on iheartradio. I tunes Google podcasts. Spotify and more.

Georgia Atlanta Georgia Tech Shannon Goodman Life Cycle Building Center serendipity labs Lifestyle Life Cycle Building Rich cazenove George US executive director High Museum Arlanda studios facebook Spotify Google Tech Tower South Face Institute Church or House
Seamus Heaney

The Archive Project

51:34 min | 7 months ago

Seamus Heaney

"Hey it's andrew the director of literary arts literary arts. We rely on our community. People like you for support to help make this podcast and all our programming possible give today literary dash arts dot org forward slash donate welcome to the project. I'm andrew procter. Executive director of literary arts archive project is a retrospective of some of the most engaging talks from the world's best writers for more than thirty five years of literary arts and portland support for the archive project is provided by cole. Haan colin shoes bags and outer wear. Go with you while you work your way to extraordinary more at cole. Haan dot com for this episode. We're reaching back into the archive. Nearly twenty years to feature one of the most anticipated events in our series at that time a talk in reading by irish poet and nobel laureate the late shaimaa teeny from portland. Lectures in two thousand two. He passed away. Eleven years later in two thousand thirteen getting opens with poems from his very first collection and then takes us on a journey through more than four decades of his work that touches on everything. The sounds and smells of his mother. Baking bread the nineteen forties to his deep knowledge of poetry and its influence on his work to meditations on the role of the artist in moments of political or national crisis. This last subject is of course for heaney. Arlanda troubles the sectarian violence that erupted in nineteen sixty five and lasted more than thirty years. Ireland and the uk. It was a time when he says everybody knew somebody who had been shot or blown up no matter which side you are on. He is famous for his depictions of rural ireland. That can feel ancient and deeply modern all at once. And this is what gives his work power and relevance today he and he begins his talk with his connection to oregon's own william stafford whose work he was introduced to in his first year of university by professor. Who had spent time at reed college. He needs says quote so from the beginning portland poetry and promise have all been linked together. Here's thank you very much. I am delighted to be in portland alone. Delighted to be in the arts lecture series here at portland figured in my imaginings early on when i began to teach in queens university. Belfast in the nineteen sixties might professor of the head of the department there was among john harvey and he had spent time at reed college. Just before that he had met to william stafford who i have also read. He told me a dismaying thing. That william staffer go to pull him every day. Just starting out. I thought it was doing pretty well. Edward to every month at the time. But then i got to know stafford's work and a we admired a lot too. He was published in a book called five american poets. As it by. Ted hughes tom. Gun away in the sixties under the number seeing ted hughes's stafford's first volume vocal west of your city. Got to california ninety seventy. I tried to find it. I wrote to publisher forgotten. Please call los gatos in california. I got the letter back Been closed on publisher so but nevertheless i got his work eventually so from the beginning portland poetry and promise of all been linked together. I want to read some poems from first book written at that time in nineteen sixties on some more recent ones so it'd be points more periods. I was lecturing in english. As i say and i have to thank english teachers throughout my career since i was a schoolboy for leading towards leaning towards poetry one of the boys studied at sixth form stayed with me and to whom any port will return for a confirmation about the nature of the calling the instruction about it as william wordsworth and there is a little section and wordsworth. Autobiography is poor. The prelude which he calls the growth of appoints. Mind four or five lines that suited my own experience. So well that. If i ever not avail which i don't expect i will. I could put these lanes in the as an epigraph. Where's worth talking about His transferral from early life in hawks head and then our removal to another part of the lake district later on and he says fair seed time had my soul. I grew up foster like by beauty and by fear much favorite in my birthplace. No less not beloved veil to which are long. i was transplanted. I think transplanting is probably a little bit of eggs edited. A bit of displacement probably important in the lives of Creative people a little bit of exile from the first place is great. Help beauty and fear and i thought i would begin with a poem i wrote. It is about being scared is a kind of words worthy in type poem. I wasn't thinking of wordsworth when i wrote it. They call young poets. I was thinking of myself. And and it's called death of a naturalist. It was described one scenario times when it appeared in little pamphlet as long disappointing but frog sh but i've always maintained that is not long at all quite short anyway reference to the flax down the this was about kind of tells the story of a childhood encounter with scarce inspect of the world on the frogs in a flagstone. A place where the flags crop was buried the on in water and laid allowed to read the technical term to keep it under water until it began to stink and rican that it was taken out. And we don't do it. Other processes death of a naturalist all year the flex down festered in the heart of the tone and green and heavy headed flack. Said rotted their way to done by huge saud's daily sweltered in punishing some bubbles gargled delicately blue bottles. Strong strong of garrone smell there. Were dragonflies spotted butterflies but best of all was the warm thick slobber frog spawn. The grew like clotted water in the shade of the banks. Here every spring. I would feel jump out full of the jellied specs to range on window sills at home on shelves at school and wait and what onto the fattening. Dots burst into nimble swimming. Tadpoles missed walls would tell us how the daddy frog was called a bullfrog until he croaked and her. The mummy frog lead hundreds of little eggs. And this was frogs spoil. You could tell the weather by frogs. To for their yellow in the some and brown in rain then one hot day when fields were rank with co dung in the grass. The angry frogs invaded the flagstone. I ducked through hedges to ecorse croaking. That i hadn't heard before the air was thick with a bass chorus right done. The dumb gross bellied frogs were cocked on salts. Loose knicks pulse blake sales some hopped the slap and plop threats some such poised like mud grenades there blunt heads farting. I sickened turned ran the great slime kings or gather there for vengeance. And i knew that. If i dipped my hand the spawn with clutch. It very much. I think it's better to hold the applause. Tell you the truth. Because if you have flagged you can have applauded if you don't play you don't want to applaud and this whole problem arises. But if you're overcome by the need of course you're free to. This is called moss. born sunlight. Most bond was the name of the farm where i came to grew up this imagines the farmers kitchen of the farmers ron divide say summer of nineteen thirty nine when i was in fans as an ladan an infant the meaning of infants of course is the own speaking that its own speaking imagined myself in the cradle taking in they actual surroundings the atmosphere. The silence broken only by woman. Baking bread my aunt. And some later the yard just absorbing and coming to its its that really would like to be a mere if it could be but but what can be a very clear except vermeer most born sunlight. There was a sunlit absence the helmeted pump in the yard he did its iron water. Honeyed in the slum booklet and son stood like a griddle cooling against the wall of each long afternoon so her hand scuffled over the big board there reddening stove sent its plaque of heat against her or she stood in a flurry apron by the window. No she just the board. With a goose's wing. No sits broad lapped with quite and nails in measly shins. Here is a space again. Scorn rising to the topic of two clocks and here is love like a tinsmith. Scoop sunk passed its gleam in the meal. Been the atmosphere in that kitchen. Would sometimes i can home-school be different. When i was a youngster. Something strange about it. I realized my mother wasn't there. She was up the room. Misery said and you realize it was somebody else up there and the doctor came down with his bag. The new wind up she was in bed. Your mother and then there was little might in the bed beside her under kush discovered that the doctor had brought another brother or sister in his bike so it was a very strange tender mysterious moment but then eventually of course. It was all out of the by discovered that that wasn't her. The baby's came at tall. This is called the bag. It's my own sense of the doctor surgery because of this story of how the baby's came. I imagined the word surgery itself as a kind of menacing one. I am have been kind of halfway host laboratory an style butcher shop with bits of babies hanging up all the makings of little ones. I really did. This is section one section for a longer poem but it makes again of coherent a reading. I think out of the bag. All of us came and dr caroline's bag he derived with it disappear to the room and by the time he'd reappear to wash those nosey rosey big soft hands of his in the scullery basin. It's lined insights. The color of spaniels inside lug was empty for all to see the trap sprung moth on snipped and gaping weighed. Then like a hypnotist unwinding us. He'd wind the instruments back into their lining tie. The cloth like an apron rhone itself darkened the door and leave with the bag in his hand. A plump arc by the keel until the next time came and in he'd come in his first line color that was also spaniard. Colored and goose stooping up to the room again with of a dutch interior gleam of west satin and highlights on s- getting the water ready that was next not plumping heart and not look for but soft sud luscious save for him from the rain but and savored by him afterwards all thanks denied as he toiled hard and fast held his arms suddenly behind him to be squared and civic lined into the camel called. At which point he wants turned his eyes upon me hyperion. Beyond the north wind blew to peoples to the locker room. i saw into every time name was mentioned skimmed. Milk and ice swabbed parson the white and chill of tiles. St lukes croom surgery. Tools and blood drips in the sawdust. Quit thickened at the foot of each called wall and overhead the little pendant teat hued infant parts strong neatly from line up near the ceiling. A tool a foot and shin and arm. The room i came from and the rest of us all came from stays pure reality where i stand alone. Standing the passage of time and she's asleep in sheets put on for the doctor wedding presents that shoot up again and again bridal unused usual and useful a births and deaths me at the bedside incubating for real peering appearing to her as she closes and is and lapses back into a faraway smile. I would enter every time to assist and be asked in not horse whisper of triumph. And what do you think of the new baby. The doctor brought for so when i was asleep. One part of us one part of every writer very put once the poem to belong in the once upon a time to have the completely intact. Integrity imagined wholeness of that once upon a timeless but also i think every writer poet feels the need to respond to historical time to the times as much as the once upon a time. That's that's not as easy as it signs. A most people have a certain kind of equipment and it's works in a certain way and if the turn it towards unexpected things like war destruction whatever is good to so many writers in northern ireland for twenty thirty years where in a lyric poets especially in a in a position ensure to handle all that didn't want to be writing rhetoric propaganda or journalism had to spring from something inside address. The outside i we i find going added was to remember. Typically right back all of this came out into the public domain all. The violence sprang a from moment in fifth of october nineteen sixty eight it sprang loose and then one thing led to another once you unleash. The violence even expect to run in small compass or large compass. Anyway people were saying a place was so quiet of course it was quite because there was a lot of things. A lot of things were hidden a little dangerous press done. A lot of it was silenced. But it was dormant. This goes back to a dormant moment in the same kitchen or the infant was lying earlier. This is a moment when a policeman are you seamen. Remember the royal ulster constabulary enters kitchen by father. Is there as a farmer. Giving tillage returns the police must quite a routine job taking the sense of the farm of the beasts and the cattle and crops fathers also but there is that sense of the other the danger because the peace of mind represents the other side. He's part of the part of the parliamentary police force and we we're part of the minority and there's courtesy and there's there's deep division and my father would often make mistakes and rendering as a not deliberately i don't think but he officers terrifically detailed vigilant fear for him so this is another fear moment. Different kinds of fear a constable. 'cause his bicycle stood at the windows to the robo co of mud splatter skirting the front mud guard. It's fat black. Handle grips heating and sunlight. The of the dynamo gleaming. And cock back the peddle treads hanging relieved of the boot of the law. His cap was upside down on the floor next chair. The line of its pressure ran like a level in his slightly sweating hair. He had unstrapped heavy ledger. And my father was making tillage returns in acres routes and purchase arithmetic and fear. I sat staring at the police. Toalster with button. Flap the bread cord looped into the revolver but also any other root crops mangoes. Morrow stems anything like that but whether or not a line of turnips with the cedra note in the potato field. I assume small guilt and sat imagining the black hole. In the barracks stood up shifted the baton case further road on his belt close the doomsday book fitted his cap back with two hands and looked at me as goodbye shadow bobbed in the window. He was snapping the carrier spring over the ledger. His boot pushed off and the bicycle ticked. This is from a later sequence of poems station island in one thousand nine hundred four at this point in our lives everybody knew somebody who had been shocked blown up no matter which side you're on and i had been reading other poets for instruction for example one of the poems which suddenly attain powerful immediacy in spite of its vendor of a classical distant medieval status dante's divine comedy it became suddenly terrifically urgent dante's poem inferno credito purgatorio. He's lead through the underworld. Remember and andy keeps meeting people who keep telling their stories. Do you want detail what happened. Russian put to stem. Set of dundee's inferno i think it was encounter with the different shades says the encounters have the urgency of a prison visit. I want to tell you what happened. So one one way then the came to me. That might be able to address. All this was to let other people speak and tell their stories. So i had been quite close to the world of dante because catholic doctrine didn't change much between thirteen twelve sixty nine nineteen sixty did change that already too. So i've been on this pilgrimage. Done this pilgrimage. Three times as a teenager to an island station island in loch dared three day pilgrimage across water. Remove your shoes you fast. You pray repeat exercise garon circles become quite doozy elucidatory. Sit up all night. And so i thought this was a place where you could see volusia nations as envisions show that the shape of the poem is the pilgrim who is a writer walks round and round and encounters various shades some from history but some from his own lifetime who have been victims of the violence and this in this section. The pilgrim poet writer is standing by the waterside. Doing the exercises contemplating saying the prayers. And this man whom we had known earlier comes present. As a ghostly figure tells his story the man had been footballer. A friend of the writer earlier on and he had been shot in a random sectarian assassination at night by people. He more or less knew he tells the story and the writer then feels inadequate and the he gets the shade gives mccain devout solution so is from station island section seven. I voice the voice of the writer. Second voice story. I had come to the edge of the water soothed by just looking idling over it as if it were a clear barometer or a murderer when his reflection did not appear but i sensed the presence entering into my concentration on not being concentrated as he spoke my name and do i was reluctant. I turned to meet his face and the shock is still in me at what i saw. His bro was blown open above the eye and blood that dried on his neck and cheek. Easy no he said. It's only me you've seen men raw football much. What time it was. When i was wakened up. I still don't know but i heard this knocking knocking. And it scared me like the phone and the small ours so add the sense not to put on the light but looked from behind the curtain. I saw to customers in the doorstep on land rover with the doors open parked on the street. So i let the curtain drop but they must have been waiting for it to move for this charter to come down into the shop. Is that a shop. He lived abode. She started to cry then and roller around the bed lamenting and lamenting to herself. Not even asking who it was as your head astray. What's come over you. I roared more to bring myself to my senses. And out of any real anger at her for the knocking. Shook me the way. They kept up and her win. Djing half screeching made it worse all the time. There were shouting shop shop. So i pulled on my shoes and a sports coat and went back to the window and called out. What do you want. could you quiet in the racket. Not come down to toe. There's a child not well opened up and see what you've got pills or powder or something in a bottle. One of them said he stepped back on the footpath. So i could see his face in the streetlamp and when the other moved i knew them both but burdened as the knocking was the quiet. Hit me worse. She was quiet herself. No lying dead still whispering to watch out the bedroom door. I switched on the light. It's all they didn't look for a chemist who are the enemy at this hour of the night. She asked me with the ice standing in her head. I knew them to see. I said but something made me reach and squeeze her hand across the bed before they went downstairs into the eye of the shop. I stood there going week in the legs are member the stale smell of cooked meat or something coming through as they went to open up from then on. You know much about it. As i do nothing. Nothing what would they say where the uniform not mask. Anyway they were fast they would be in the day shite singing where the be all and the endo not that. It was any consolation but they were caught. I told him and got jail. They gleamed decent open faced. He stood forgetful of everything now except whatever it was wailing up in his spoilt head. Beginning to smile you've put on the weight. Cintra did your courting in that big austin. He's got the of sunday night through life and death. He had hardly aged. They're always with an athlete's cleanliness shopping and except for the ravages forward and the blood he was still at same rangy. Midfielder in a blue jersey and starched pence the one stylist on the team. The perfect clean unthinkable victim. Forgive the way. I have lived in different. Forgive by timid circumspect involvement. I surprised myself by saying forgive. My i he said all. That's above my head. And then a stone of pain seemed to go through him and he trembled like a heatwave and faded. The interesting thing is years. What i read that poem people would assume it was an ira. Assassination was actually two policemen. A royalist par military's was a nice question as old as aristotle's poetics game up. Would you reveal in the poem directly that they were are you seamen or not ours dot says that the put these what with what is likely to happen. So you're doing if if you put the indirect you're saying all the uc are killers by night. So i just left it hanging but the situation where people in uniform are actually part of another terrorist organization isn't confined to northern ireland. As we know. It's all over the place. I was in south africa. Recently people are the situation there other parts to this. It's called came to me. I should read it in the northwest it was written after most joe condos wordsworth would say experience with a french writer. French report from brittany land of the oyster to call galvanic and he came to ireland. We traveled to one of the great places in the world. Mourns of the. We're going to galway. The first time i ever saw anyone order twenty four eastern straight off and and eat them indeed. This was also at the time. Went up there all this pressure. All this dangerous in one's head the sense of the the sadness of the danger and they suffering in the north so there we were enjoying ourselves all easter's or shells clicked on the plates. My tongue was a feeling s jury. My pilot hung with starlight. As i tested the salty player days were ryan dipped his foot into the water alive and violated. They lay on their beds of ice bivalves. The split bobin philandering sigh of ocean. Millions of them written shock and scattered. We had driven to that coast through flowers limestone and there were toasting friendship laying down a perfect memory in the cool of thatch and crockery over the alps. Pack deep in. Hey and snow. The rooms hold their oyster south to rome. I saw dump punters the front lipped. Brian stung of privilege and was angry. That might trust could not repose in the clear light like poetry or freedom leaning in from c. I ate the day deliberately that it's tying might quicken me. All into verb pure verb desire to be pure verb is kind of the basis. Put lyric lyric utterance. And i just wanna read a couple of the poems which are more lyric. I suppose i see time. Had my soul and i grew up foster like up there in the north by beauty and by fear but by the time i was writing those poems i was actually living in county wicklow in irish republic south of dublin living in a beloved veil as worship. The state to which i had been transplanted was a place called. Glenmore means the big glenn. We had a house for four years. They're a little gate lodge eight. Was i in the course of my four years. When i left. Belfast left the university. Live there full time as a writer had resigned my job. I went one of the things i did as a freelancer was to do little television things and i went to wordsworth cottage in in grass mirror and did a small documentary on it. When i came home. I was in trance by the lake between our host. And where's where's my wife. Disturbed find this inflation going on but there was nevertheless the place was a haven and and i place of writing a powerpoint. Read two poems from glenmore sewn seek was one about the quiet moment at night listening to the ship bbc shipping forecast and it was only then that i realized it was to do with the real world as well as being just a beautiful linguistic invocation bbc shipping forecast invokes all the names with regions of the see from iceland. Down to the bisky right on north sea and all that and very beautiful invocations. But it's also to tell trawlers of course there's gaels coming up the first time i realize it really had a purpose was when we lived in wicklow so these are two starts. Duggar ruckle mallon irish green swift upsurges north atlantic flops conjured by that strong gale. Warning voice collapse into a sibling panera midnight and closed on sirens of the tundra of either owed sealer road kill road rail road raise their wind compounded keen behind the bays and drive the trawlers to lee of wicklow late laghi gala. The bell eleven nurse their bright names this morning in the bay that toilet mortar. It was marvelous. And actual i said out loud a haven the word deepening clearing like the sky elsewhere on menchu's cromartie the faeroes. I dreamt we slept in a moss and donegal on turf banks under blankets with our faces exposed all night in a wedding drizzle. Pala does the dripping sapling birches the renzo jessica in a cold climate dear madden gronya waiting to be phoned darkly espn and we were laid out like breathing. Effigies on raised ground. Not dream i dreamt. Highlight you this our first night years ago in that hotel when you came with your deliberate kiss to raise us towards the lovely and painful confidence of flesh are separateness. The respite in our dewey dreaming faces. I was very lucky to be able to go back to that cottage in it for four years. We had to leave it. And then i was able to get it as a place of writing to buy it in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight and of course as an all of these cases. I had one idea how it should be kept. My wife had another idea what might be done with it. So this is called the skylight. You were the one for skylights. I opposed cutting into the season tongue and groove of pitch pine. I liked it low and closed its claustrophobic. Nest open the roof affect. I like the snuffed dry feeling. The perfect trunk lid fit of the old ceiling under there. It was all hot and hatch the blue slates kept the heat like midnight thatch but when the smiths came off extravagant sky entered and held surprise wide open for days i felt like an inhabitant of that host with the man sick of the policy was lured through the roof had his sins. Forgiven was healed to bed and walked away. The desire for the own bone did is part of the imports but of course if we desert the endured just head for the desired. We lose ourselves to this. This next poem is retelling of a story in all story that is one of the annals of the monastery of palm make noise. It's just a story but it's kind of it's full of suggestion. The analysts say when the mokes of com make noise where all prayers inside the today a ship appeared above them in the air. The anchor dragged along behind so deep it hooked itself into the altar rails and then as the big hole rock to a standstill a crewman shindand grapple down the rope and struggled to release it but in vain. This man cannot bear life here on will drone the happen said unless we help him so they did. The free ship sailed and the man claimed back out of the marvelous as he had known it. This is another story from another old text. Scott send kevin and the blackbird and then there was since kevin and the blackbird. The saint is kneeling arms stretched out inside a sale but the sale is narrow so one turned up. Pam is out the window stiff. As a crossbeam when a blackbird lands and laze in it and settles down nest kevin feet. Is the war. Megs the small breast to talk neat head and claws and finding himself linked into the network of eternal life is moved to pity nor he must hold his hand like a branch out in the sun and rain for weeks on till the young hatched and fledged and flown. Since the whole thing's imagined anyhow imagine being kevin which is he self forgetful or an eye guinea all the time from the neck down to hurting forearms are as finger sleeping. Don't you still feel his knees or has a shot. I'd blank of under earth crept through him is their distance in his head. A loan and mirrored clear in loves deep river to labor not to seek reward. He prays a prayer. His buddy makes entirely for. He has forgotton self forgotten bird and on the riverbank forgotten. The river's name read three or four. Thank after september eleventh. I was asked. Could i think of something that might be read in date suggested a piece from here. Wolf had translated this anglo saxon poem will of course warrior on the first part of the poem is a budget him winning warrior. Glory defeating this monster. The monster and still on but then second half. He's an old king and dragon stirs and in his kingdom and he has to go out to face it. It's a much more much slower. Tenderer more sarfu section of the poem so the misery of the king it was like the misery endured an old man who has lived to see his son's body swing on the gallows. He begins to keaton and weep for his boy. Watching the raven glory hangs he can be of no help. The wisdom of age is worthless to him morning after morning. He wakes to remember. That has boy has gone. He has no interest and living on onto. Another air is born in the hall. Notice first born has entered the door of death forever. he gazes sorrowfully at his son's dwelling the banquet whole bereft of all delight the windswept heart stone. The horsemen are sleeping. The warriors underground. What was is no more. No tunes from the harp not cheer raised in the yard alone with his longing he lies died on his bed and sings a lament. Everything seems to large the standings and the fields such was the feeling of loss endured by doom lord. He was hitless placed to set to rights. The wrong committed another poem about fear. More about all about shock. Something larger than personal fear came the thing that runs through the world when the unexpected happens such as the events of september eleventh and i find in a classical poem in palm by the latin poet. Horace quintas ratio flavors book. One number thirty four. I think a known poem before talked about it in a lecture for different purposes remembered. It and i thought i can translate it as a response to the world out there after the so i read it and then in read just to end with the poem called. I called it horace under thunder and it's it's translation. They weren't in the first. Three stanzas in horace things been knocked on so we'll but i beheaded i took off the i dunno on. I put on my own. This called horace the thunder after horace odes. One thirty four anything can happen. You know how. Jupiter when most be wait for close together head before he heard of the lightning. Well just know. He galloped his thunder cart and his horses across a clear blue sky it shook the earth and the clogged under earth. The river styx the winding streams the atlantic shore itself. Anything can happen. The tallest things be overturned those in high places daunted. Those overlooked regarded struck big fortune. Swoops making the air gasp tearing off crests letting them drop bloodily wherever grown gives. The heavens weight lifts up off atlas like a kettle. Did capstone shift nothing. Resettles right to nurik hush and fire spores boil away and finally like to sellers. I wrote after my mother died. Just go back to the first place to the first two at most one is about peeling potatoes. One is folding sheets. So two points from clearances. When all the others were two way at mice. I was all hers as we peel. Potatoes broke the silence. Let fall one by one like solider. Weeping off the soldering iron cool comfort set between us things to share gleaming in a bucket of clean water and again let full digital pleasant splashes from each other's work would bring us to our senses so the party priest at her bedside when hammer and tongs to the prayers for the dying and somewhere responding and some crying. i remembered her head bent towards my head. Her breath in mine are fluent dipping knives. Never closer the who rest of our lives cool. That came off sheets. Just of the line made me think the dump must still be in them but what i took my corners of the linen and pulled against her first straight during the him and then i can only then flapped and shook the fabric like a sale in a crosswind. They made it dried out on your leading to. So we'd stretch and fooled and end up hand-to-hand hand for a split second as if nothing had happened for nothing had that had not always happened beforehand. Day-by-day just touch and go coming close again by holding back in moves where i was x. And she was only inscribed in cheats she'd stolen from ripped owed flour sacks. Thank you very much. That was shameless. Portland arts and lectures event in two thousand and two. This has been literary arts the archive project. It's a retrospective of some of the most engaging talks from the world's best writers from more than thirty five years of literary arts in portland. Join us next time for the archive project a literary arts production in collaboration with oregon public broadcasting to hear more from the archive project. Subscribe wherever you get. Your podcasts support for the archive project is provided by cole. Haan on a mission to fuel your big ideas. More coming on dot com. Our show is produced by crystal gory for radio. And podcast with production oversight by bullock the support from liz olafsson special. Thanks to joe. T roy and the entire literary arts staff board and community. The show would not be possible without them. Thanks also to the band emancipator for our theme music and thanks to all of you for listening. I'm andrew procter and this has been another episode of the archive project from literary arts. Join us next time. Find your story here.

portland william stafford reed college andrew procter Haan colin Arlanda Ted hughes tom garrone stafford cole ireland dr caroline nosey rosey St lukes croom royal ulster constabulary john harvey queens university ted hughes heaney Belfast
283. #LunesPodcastero Especial 2020

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283. #LunesPodcastero Especial 2020

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EP 575 - Are PUFAs Killing You? Debate Between Alan Flanagan & Tucker Goodrich

Mark Bell's Power Project

2:01:53 hr | 2 months ago

EP 575 - Are PUFAs Killing You? Debate Between Alan Flanagan & Tucker Goodrich

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That's buying three boxes. And then you get a fourth one free if you can be like or you can be like insieme. Grab all four watermelon flavors or you can get a variety of all the other ones. I've been having chocolate every single night. It's like my little before. Bedtime snack keeps me hydrated throughout the entire night again. That's at l. T. dot com slash power project head over there. Now oh my god. We made it. We did people talk shit man. They never thought we would make it but look at us. We've got our own show if we can only get somebody to watch. Listen we have a few. i think my mom listens. Bless her big trouble if she lists still she still hanging in there listening listening to this garbage. I gotta lot bunch of family members that listen to this and i'm like man. You need to do something better with your time. I still remember my stephanie's cousins. Mike has in. We were at Jasmine's dance recital. And he comes up to me like man. You guys made me laugh so hard the other day on. What do you mean any brought up. Some definitely super embarrassing thing that we spoke about and i was like Shit you really lissette. Like i'm flattered at at the same time like just totally horrified. I'm excited for today's show. I'm excited with some of the Diverse conversation we get into on this show yesterday talking talking with somebody that really went through it and had a lot of life experiences with particular things that happened Michaela peterson with her diet. And she had went through many different battles diseases and so forth and that was very nonscientific. Even though michaela has researched some things and should it pull out some stats here and there What didn't get like real thick with that it was more of just like a life story But for today you know having this debate between alan flanagan and chuck goodrich. I'm really excited to hear these guys. Talk in depth about What they feel. Is you know really hurting us. especially as americans with Processed foods and Alan flanagan has been on the podcast. Before and he spoke he spoke quite a bit about circadian rhythm. He talked about a lot of other healthy practices But these guys have a little bit of a debate going on Tucker goodridge is really well versed in polyunsaturated fats for people unfamiliar. They're also called pufus. And some of these polyunsaturated fats will get Cooked they'll get heated to a degree that is harmful to us and They end up in a lot of our processed foods. And so allen flanagan is on the side of like thinking like these things are probably not that huge of a deal Probably in consideration if we're not overeating and if we're moving around and exercising expending some energy and tucker He thinks he thinks these things are pure hell and pure poison. So i'm excited it kinda here. These guys go back and forth. Some people are starting to recognize these polyunsaturated. Fats has being Worse than sugar so I'm interested to hear what both these guys have to say today about this topic. I'm really interested in just the practical implications of this. Just because it's it's interesting. What happens when you start eating a lot of meat And start cooking like we do like i do. I use my fryer lock so what happened is without even realizing it. I have cut down my oil consumption grad like drastically. I can't remember the last time. I literally poured as it. Point poured oil into a pan to cook something literally Maybe like the baking grease or something serious lay even even when i cook fattier cuts if i do. It's like i just use. Its own bat to cook it. It's like i haven't needed it so It's going to be interesting to see if you do like. Maybe if he is a little bit maybe there's not that big of a deal. But that's what i'm interested in out. I think Where it might have some real application for our listeners is when they go to restaurants you know and listeners that may follow a diet Where like they're doing if it fits your macaroni or something like that. They might be might wanna be more cautious about some of the things that they choose to fit their makarova's He also might be you know. Wanna be careful of going out to eat because they could be putting all kinds of weird different oils on your food And then anyone having salads and stuff you might want to reconsider the type of dressings they use. Maybe switch over to using some primal kitchen stuff from Our boy marxism or you Just you make your own concoction at home with olive oil or something like that because there are oils that are Seem to be a lot less harmful. But i think one thing to consider when it comes to any oil and i think that's great and seem that you eliminated. A lot of them is just to to know that Any of our foods that we have in a liquid form is going to be quite different than The way that it was meant to be so an olive eating all olive his great turning into olive oil While i would say it's not horrible. It's not bad probably It's just a really dance Version of the olive oil and or of the olive. And when you have that you could end up Having excess calories maybe an excess of a bunch of other stuff that you're maybe not even aware of and switching over to being primarily meat-based As seems to do just a lot of wonders for me as well and it helped me cut back on things. That i wasn't even aware of that i ate like i. I don't really feel like. I have this urge or need to dump a bunch of oil on on my food anyway. But when you're eating you know rib is and stuff like that. They certainly could just use a little bit of salt in your usually good to go as far as oils mark like. What when you do use some just before East two guests come in. What is the stuff that you use when you do cook with oil. So just in case people like Do get something. maybe. I could try grabbing this. I'm a little bit like you. So i i will I won't normally use Anything but occasionally i might use some Like ghee butter or might use Lotta times. Like if i'm cooking eggs i just use spray and i know that people are like oh my god crazy stuff in it or whatever but Sometimes i might use a little bit like coconut oil. The issue at the oils versus the spray is i feel like i have to use kind of a lot of oil. And i'd just rather not have those calories sometimes. I'll just cook if it's eggs. I'll just cook them in regular butter really like a lot. So be great to know from these guys like they see any harm in Any of those things. I i or even cooking in bacon grease which is a pretty common an interesting thing is you know years and years ago like maybe like almost one hundred years ago There was the invention of crisco and it was a lot of switch to people Frying stuff in stuff other than animal fat and that actually caused a lot of problems. Gave us trans fatty acids and a bunch of other fats are extremely harmful to the body. And there's been a lot of data and research To to to show some of that so we were on the right track years ago when we just used Animal fats. And if i am to use any oil on anything it might be some olive oil because I'll eat salad here. And there and i'll have a salad with olive oil and some Osama vinaigrette avocado oil great can be cooked and when i say it's great it can be cooked at a high temperature Coconut oil can work really. Well also yeah. I was just thinking like looks like both guys are ready to go so Back when i used to like like no. You gotta have kale shakes. You got a juice things. I'm gonna avoid soy. I'm gonna avoid all the you know canola oil like i still don't really eat corn but like get rid of all of that like like no tour treat. Tortilla torture tied no tortilla chips. None of that shit. And i feel so much better today when i don't even really think about it. I don't know if that's just because i'm moving more or just. My overall diet is better. So i wish i'm trying to remember everything that we did but i mean literally everything like i wouldn't drink anything other than watering like coconut water like it was. I was like super like just by and now like very children phil way. Better look better. Everything's better right now but like this is interesting. No artificial sweeteners is another one too. I never touched any. Because oh my god this is supposed to be bad but you know it's interesting. You know like thinking about it right now but yeah. Let's get these guys in here. Ap's it's one area go get him hooked in. Yeah ohio lee that depth of field. That's what morning gentlemen. It's not the field. It's a zoom feature that i'm told his a pro zoom move which is to use their blur. The background feature. I dig it going to have to mess with that next time. I'm zoom like for on my own. I'll setup well it's that looks good. I'm got my computer sitting here on plastic crate with a couple of textbooks. The right all the way pro set up. Can we hear allan allan kanu. They're good good evening as allen by virtually make your acquaintance youtube hooker heads. I think we're in world at different times already or abundant idaho. Yeah okay. Rice london to idaho. Awesome really excited to have you guys on the show today. let's Just try to do our best to Not over talk one another probably the most appropriate way to kick off the show is maybe get a little bit of background and If you guys don't mind kinda sharing How he kinda got to this point. Because i know that I believe alan. I believe you wrote an article. I believe tucker Wrote a rebuttal to it. No stan efforting is the one that kind of paired us up. He said you guys should you guys should have a fight to the death of dual on mark bells power products so well. Hopefully we won't be doing that. Alan you mind kicking things off in Sharing you know who you are. What your background is. And then we'll go on over to tucker. So i'm currently writing up my phd thesis on at university of surrey which is where did my mse. Ed prior to that. I spent a decade working as a researcher which is the type of lawyer we have. In jurisdictions like arlanda uk them was always interested in nutrition. Initially did my mse with a view to just the doing it for personal interest at got bit by the research and got offered fulltime phd in Transition at the i guess to short circuit hear the article in question. I rose i on social media actually on twitter so all of social media activity is on on instagram and a particular conversation would keep coming up hosting a lot of interest in lipids cardiovascular disease. Generally speaking uk advisory panel in the uk So i would post about this regularly enough Get into conversations. Broadly speaking polyunsaturated fats snus. Sometimes they specific to omega six leg at the battle of Just could've this umbrella. So so i wrote the article. Broadly in relation to polyunsaturated side. It wasn't necessarily specific to seed oils wasn't so so there was a mix of studies that would have included an either a specific focus on omega six or specific focus on a mega three or indeed. Some analyses would have included both and it. The article was kind of laid out in a certain form. I i started this by talking. About certain narratives dash were common. That's not here. a loss. in the conversations. I have with equal. They would be focused. Law song kind of ideas on central diets or the paleolithic died in particular And then some of this kind of mixed in i would say have we got dietary guidelines. Very much focused on answer keys demonizing That wasn't necessarily evidential part of the article. It was just like these. Were the common things. I would question someone who would question me. These are the things i would hear by then. I focused on a human studies for Rock sedation in particular and then human studies. That are often cited in support of specifically in relation to omega six. A negative effect on they tend to be older studies than we've got missing days with them. There are some teas parts of their heart. Disease with the release of that was the for me. Anyway was the final part. This seems to have not got as much kind of attention of the the narrative parts inuit signs try base conclusions of converging lines of evidence a not necessarily Specific line and when it came to this question particular. I find that for human outcome. Data we've prospective cohort studies for dis measured initially in followed up over time. We've got biomarker studies. We've got human intervention studies. We've got the substitution analyses out. We've got net analyses of both control. Trials and all of 'em perspective observational research. And for me that the body of evidence seems to point to an overall conclusion that were probably barking up the wrong tree. When it comes to vilifying polyunsaturated fats generally omega six in particular levels of current consumption. And otherwise i find it. Hard to see how they're having military is the fact that some people would claim that they do Habitual levels are not particularly. I think in the us navy. Seven percents on average energy intake but took her my correct me on more familiar right. Hey jason you're so so. I i find it hard. And then from we look at globally. The range tends to be between a two eleven percent when we look in that range with the perspective day set seems to suggest a ferry but the The higher ended outrage is better than the lower end. I think there are other component parts in terms of explaining cardiovascular disease which has come down by over fifty percent since the sixties although still the leading global causes mortality diabetes and other conditions. I think there are other and culprits. That we can. We can look at the warrants more of our focus in in this respect and so just to kind of wrap up. Might guess mandolin tro. I i think this. I find it very difficult to support by reference to human income data. I know that there are these potential mechanisms that might explain in effect but they seem to not translate to actual effects in outcomes in humans. So for all those reasons. I find it difficult to sustain a case that omega six lake acid is particularly detrimental crease human metabolic health or even cardiovascular health. I'd tucker you wanna take it away. But screen just froze. I missed your last sentence there. I disagree tucker. You wanna take it away okay So my background. I was a technology executive on wall street. had absolutely no interest in diet stuff I grew up with a mother who is always going through weight watchers. And i knew that that approach didn't work and then in my late thirties. I by itself became extremely sick and was hospitalized. A number of times for different conditions including what that first appeared to be a stroke. I was thirty eight and then cute potatoes which is perforated colon. When i was in my forties i unfortunately acquired an interest in health trying to figure out what was going on and why was getting so sick at such a young age because i came from a long lived family so i was expecting the same outcome Through basically dumb. Lock got into this Diet topic and specifically the effect of seed oils on health unlike most people who fix their diet removing seed oils for my diet. The first thing that i tried. And i had an immediate and dramatic shifts in my health for the better the chronic bowel condition that i had suffered from from For sixteen years resolved in two days my weight fell off immediately. my propensity for sunburn. I mean if you're listening to a podcast of version of this. I am blond blue eyed fair skinned and i would roast in about forty five minutes so very quickly. I became somewhat intolerant to sunburn. you know. That was a surprising change. So i got very interested in why this was happening and understanding why what i had thought the dietary guidelines diet. I been pursuing. Didn't seem to work. And when i reversed it all of a sudden all of my health markers got better. I worked with my doctor Who to me. I'm very concerned about what you're doing. And i said well doc that's why i'm here with you. You can run the test and you can tell me if you're killing your son if i'm killing myself or not. And the conclusion of that experiment was him telling me i was gonna live to one hundred and my firing him. Because i no longer needed. Regular physician visits that i had needed up until that point. So since then i'm largely self talk problem-solver and i delved into the literature educated myself on what was going on and try to understand what was happening to me and then as i started understanding that it could be of value to other people I started talking about the research. I was doing in the findings i had had Sars allen's article I have a number of objections to it From the top line. He's conflating omega six omega. Three pufus polyunsaturated fats. That's a bit of a straw man argument. There's really nobody who argues with the health. Benefits of omega three fats There's a small group of people who follow the teachings of repeat Who cautions against excess omega six fat intake. As far as i am aware he has almost no influence outside of the nutrition community that we all live in So i don't think it's you know and alan ever mentioned him so to his credit but conflicting those two together as a bit of an unfair tactic in this debate because really nobody takes position. As far as the rest of his argument goes. he's largely not fairly representing some of the studies that he takes in particular by complaining. That some of these studies are old old irrelevant in science out. The as i point out in my rebuttal omega six fats are considered to be essential fats and essential in nutrition. Science has a very specific meaning that they are required for life. There is nobody who disputes that they are required for life a and b studies that show that come from the nineteen thirties so if we can use studies from the nineteen thirties to demonstrate the essential quality that. He's fats than i think. It's a little unfair to paint will perform studies from decades after that as being too old to be worthy of consideration. Especially when they're done by the leading researchers and scientists of the period in which they were done I also think. I mean there are huge problems. With the epidemiological evidence in general and specifically in polyunsaturated fats and secrete keys is the fellow who largely created the science of nutritional epidemiology To his credit and he was not the first epidemiologist but he really built the science that You know we all look to now to try and help us figure out what's going on in our nutrition But there are two problems with that. I a lot of the data used in nutrition. Nutritional epidemiology is very poor. The results don't tend to replicate a the the populations examined are typically populations in industrial sihities. Who have universities are capable of carrying out These sorts of research projects. I mean ansel keys. Seven countries study was conducted in this country's it was conducted in because he could find people in those countries to do the research right so developing countries weren't included only first world countries were included. And you're thus looking at a subset of humans. Now omega six fats in industrial quantities entered the die human diet in the late eighteen hundreds almost one hundred years before he started doing his research so by only looking at populations that have been consuming these fats for a hundred years while gary. Todd's put it really well in one of these books. It's an joke about a cop. Walking down the street finds a drunk looking calling around on the ground under a streetlight and he asked him what he's looking for and the guy says. I'm looking for my car keys. And he says did you lose them here. He said no i lost over. They lost him over there. Will why are you looking here while because this is where the light is right. There's clear and overwhelming evidence that the transition the nutritional transition from a pre-industrial diet to in industrial diet was accompanied by a massive increase in the incidence of chronic diseases and that transition was accompanied by the introduction seed oils into the diet not looking at that transition in an epidemiological survey of these diseases and the possible causes of them is a huge mistake. To make. wouldn't these wouldn't these metabolic diseases Be more spawned from just simply overeating. Maybe rather than just a specific type of fat or blaming on sugar or salt or Whatever we ended up blaming it on what what are your guys thoughts on just the simplification of if we're not over consuming and we're moving around. Maybe we can still avoid some of these diseases. I want to go ahead with it. Yeah you know again. There's another saying in medicine when you hear hoof beats think of horses not zebras. i. I'm implying to put my chips in the basket for a number of reasons. One is the new. The suckers correct in terms of the nutrition transition for dose realized countries started earlier. But really we see this acceleration. The post second world war period is a period Can measure at diets and there are epidemiological studies that that go from. Not just the seven study is there are a couple of others that are also interesting Do from that period. And you see this accelerated change in the food supply from the late sixties early seventies on. It's happening even before the introduction dodger guidelines but in the modern context we can actually look at the nutrition transition that has been occurring in low income countries in asia as a kind of almost proxy for head changed on. I'll come back to that one second but as it relates to for example the usa there was a two thousand nine analysis by swinburne and colleagues which looked as one of the challenges with measuring energy intake. Is it can be difficult to account for the difference between in-home intake and as foam taken out of home intake is increase significantly. People eat a lot of the on the road the the so what they did was they used energy availability in the food supply. Food supply energy availability. Which is a nice metric for. How much availability per capita you can use a a famas on average per capita daily energy. Availability food supply energy availability in the. Us had increased by between five and seven hundred calories a day if you were to model out. Based on the way change that has occurred in the population that's practically sufficient to explain the change in average population. Wait between seventy s at on now and so when you then start to look by salacious nutrient components back diet. Although you concede percentage change it's because of the overall increase in total energy. You tend to see that everything has increased so you can say that will fat as a percentage of energy has come down where easing a low fat diet. Because the guy will total absolute fat intake because increase. Because we're just aging more when you look at the nutrition transition in asia we've seen this occur so in the early ninety s the average macrey nutrient composition of the chinese diet. Still reflected what we might call the traditional chinese diet. Total fat was only that twenty percent give or take of energy intake carbohydrates sixty six percents reliance dietary staple like white rice and protein the remainder if you look at the nutrition composition now it reflects more of what we might call a western micronutrient composition dietary fats now. Thirty three percents of total energy intake carbohydrate lower than before but still would be typical in western countries Fifty five percent we. We've seen food industry tactics to have penetrate these markets. It usually starts with sugar sweetened beverages. They changed the food supply in terms of access points. And we see the significant increase in calorie intake across the board and yes there are dramatic increases in nutrients of interest for example. Free sugars. so all. I am although it's inch the weekend. Plus the rise of starbucks against the rise of chronic disease. And we can. I'm very cautious against kind of comparisons in terms of timeline because we can end up with post hawk fallacy where because it will be followed a we assume that a caused b we could do that with any component of the dyas. What i find difficult even though so suckers correct so when he says that are large perspective investigations in an observation. Nutritional epidemiology are in industrialized countries. But given the facts the population in which we want interventions to be applied. I don't think after limitation because it's generalized to the populations were studying. The populations are relevant to what we ultimately going to ask people to do. And even before major guidelines come in we see this association with things like the polyunsaturated to saturated Israeli civil servants study which started in nineteen sixty three thirteen years before guys came in a. We do see this replicated across populations which is why you know we can. We can see these syntheses. Pooled analyses of perspective dacia encompassing europe. North america might even the middle eastern countries on against the same trends emerge so in terms of metabolic disease continues higher levels of cardiovascular mortality although those have since the nineteen sixties. I'm inclined to think that the the lowest hanging fruit furloughs to go is the dramatic increase. Not just in total energy intake but but also in the kind of composition of diets itself and therefore the absence of other nutrients so the absence of dietary fiber. The absence of polyphenyls. The absence of other. You know monounsaturated fats. The absence of foods that we generally associated benefits in the context of a high possible hyper energetic. Dies over time and for me. That's a much more plausible explanation for the disease. States that we have nots liver diabetes or cardiovascular disease okay To your point mark yes too much. Food is not good for you bre guardless. It seems of what kind of food you're eating your body doesn't like to be stuffed and it's a common problem one season nutritional literature. This is something. I've discussed with kevin hall the nih researcher where. I told him he was putting his finger. On the scale by having icicle orrick feeding experiments because if the effect of dietary intervention is a reduction in calories which would be really interesting then by overfeeding those people you are gonna causing them to eat more than they ought to be more than they want and potentially putting your finger on the scale of the result so yeah. That's a definite factor in any diet that you're looking at. As far as allen's conversation goes i was just reading a paper over the weekend on the nutrition transition new trends in the global diet from nine hundred ninety seven and they go through the various different changes in the human diet over that period and they noted that in the current era. The big difference from previous nutrition transitions has been the large availability of vegetable fats and vegetable oils. They specifically look at the change. In china and note that the biggest difference in china is the importation and then domestic production of vegetable oils. So what they know is that this nutrition transition has a couple of common qualities across all societies that they looked at any rate is that carbohydrate consumption goes down which is kinda ding for the carbs caused disease argument. 'cause in everyone of these countries that you look at you see that as it gets more wealthy at goes carb. Consumption goes down meat. Consumption goes up a fat consumption goes up right. Fruit and vegetable consumption tends to go for a little while and then as we saw in japan attempts to plateau but the biggest difference again as they note in the modern transition has been in economic driven increase in consumption of vegetable oils and unlike all the previous transitions. This also happened in poor countries because these are cheaper fats. So yeah what allen said safaris. He went was corrects but he didn't go far enough now. Let's get into a little bit of a mechanistic study. He's allen's correct that there was an increase in overall calorie intake will narrow it the united states. Because that's the place where we have. The best data as people became obese we also had the introduction of an anti-obesity drug called ramona's aunt ramona band came out I think in the middle two thousands. Maybe two thousand six and was fairly quickly pulled from the market because previous turns out rats in cages. Don't really have the opportunity to commit suicide so they weren't able to detect that people's reaction to taking this drug was in fact to want to kill themselves so it was yanked from the market but it's really illustrated's the mechanism behind that drug because we know it worked in the animal models when noord work in the humans because we have our. ct's numerous source. He t showing that it worked in various different human populations and the mechanism of that was to block the indicate. Nab annoyed systems uptake of a chemical call to ag to ag induces hyper fadia hyper fadia is overeating specifically it. Induces overeating of carbohydrates. Which is the heart of the diet that went up the most over the seven days or sorry over the last few decades as the obesity epidemic occurred right specifically sugar and starch To ag is really interesting because after the drug was pulled people considered continued to research it in animal models which is how one does these things to try and determine what mechanism is and it turns out that dietary seed oils convert to chemical in your brain that induces overeating now. The fact that that chemical as this nutrition Transition in many other papers notes is the biggest change. That's occurred in the human diet over the last hundred years. The increase in omega six fats and that we can block it with a pharmaceutical that works the same way in humans and in animals is pretty not Is pretty notable act to explain. Why do we all start eating more. Well you know it's pretty interesting to ag is a medic to thc the active drug in pot thc is actually used as a prescription drug in humans to induce eating in cancer. Kachuck kexia wasting in cancer and also in anorexia. So the you see where i'm going here. We made clear mechanistic pathway to explain our overeating epidemic. That allen described so. Well mega sixes. Give us the munchies sudo cecil and painting papers actually say exactly that but did they say that in relation Here's here's the thing this is. A general comment is for me applicable to almost all aspects of the conversation. We can come at it. We can look at mechanisms and we have to look at mechanisms signs in the after understand them but nationalism does not equal affects and this is i. Think a fairly common line of kind of reasoning within the omega six having a particularly negative effect is will take a mechanism will wait. We can propose them. We can look say that this will follow unbeatable. Follow whatever the mechanism is and yet there can be at upholding of that mechanism until we have a translational effect in human data. I'm what i instead of what you've just described as abusive mechanism involving a drug which which has nothing to do with linoleic acid. So it's framing circumstantial argument that this mechanism happen. Not a direct statement allen What did i miss. It has nothing to do with atlantic. The pathway from linoleic acids to sue ag does been repeatedly demonstrated in animal experiments suit. What i'm saying is the evidence that you're sizing for. This hydrophobic effect comes from the drug nas little Narrowed drug blocks. The effect of lanka acid conversion to ag in the body of the drug prevents obesity and es longs as the human approved drug or it was one point for it was billed to the market so here we have a clear translation from a mechanistic model into a human demonstration that this effect takes place. And it's not the only place that this has happened right. we've all come back to that Because i wanted to kind of work and thanks for coming on because this is the line so we have The drug is the anti hydrophobic drug. It acts by inhibiting pathways through which little egg acids catch. Were again being searched. So so is there a human evidence that lena laic acids fed in high doses to humans. Has this effect yes. I'm amorous might. That will be no based on human evidence that we have while than we can. We can go through that okay. Okay i'm an again. Even adding so mechanistic evidence while important must also be married to biological plausibility. And so even because this point will be relevant to the difference between percentage changes in diet as a result of increased calorie intake. An absolute changes as we said that like acid specifically constitutes around seven percent of the dice in the us and so if this of mechanism is going to have evidence of actual effects in humans of increasing energy intake as a result of feeding little egg. Acid will then it. It has to be within the bounds of via logical plausibility. Of where we're at in terms like acid intake guns. I mean i've i've i've seen a number of studies looking at thought specific society that have compared different subtypes. But i have to say unless you complete me in the direction. I can't see any human evidence that was suggests that linoleic acid specifically increases subsequent calorie intake. Since i like these primitive society models Let's discuss the team on a cna or a libyan hunter gatherer tribe in the living in the amazon desert. They are very popular research subjects. Because they're one at least populations that doesn't have heart disease. They don't have diabetes and up until recently they didn't have obesity while they discovered something interesting in it semen a that people were starting to get fat and the first pass association they came up with was motorboats turned out. Cna with motorboats. Were more likely to get overweight. And it wasn't because they weren't exercising it was because because we all know that exercises are really lousy way to keep weight off. Although it's great for our health what they discovered was the people with the motorboats. Were the ones who could go to the market and by industrial foods on a regular basis. So they did an analysis of the change in their diet. See what factor was driving their little obesity epidemic and it was their consumption of vegetable oil. Right there are lots of papers looking at two. Ag specifically and again there's only one path for this to be metabolize in the body. It's made exclusively from iraq acid and the min again in the animal models. The variation into a g in the body is driven by laic as content Of the diet in humans to associated with obesity as do various other Omega six fats specifically digi la which is an intermediate in the production of iraq panic from little alantic acid. Now you correctly know in your article that Racket onic acid intake academic acid levels in the body tend to be pretty stable when linoleic acid consumption is varied arachne onic. Acid is a very important fat. It's a long chain omega. Six fat and the amount of it in serum where they looked tends to be very tightly controlled in animal models. It's quite clear that you can vary it and change it in other tissues and it's also quite clear that the metabolites like to ag are varied by the dietary consumption even though iraq it onic acid stays at a steady state. So there's you know there's a lot of research going on into the indicate avenue it's system in obesity because again we had a human proved drug tested in human are. Ct's that showed that pathway was relevant to human obesity. we also have another pathway. We've all heard of gastric bypass surgery. So the animal models show that What drives the change Hathaway okay let me back up just a half second here. So the animal models show that the effect of lentil egg acid on obesity is driven through the human brick through the brain. Right there's a circuit going through the bagel nerves that detects sleep conversion of win link acid into iraq. Onic acid into asia in the gut as you're digesting your food and if you cut the bagel nerve you eliminate the ability of linoleic acid to drive obesity in an animal model right so now. They've looked at what happens in gastric bypass surgery. And it turns out you're cutting that circuit in animals or in humans. Right you are basically. It's almost like a lobotomy. You're disconnecting the part of the brain. That senses this hyper fade signal in the gut. And it causes an immediate reduction in hyper fadia. Which is why we use this surgery in. Humans treat obesity now because the gut is a very robust oregon I had to have a colon surgery. And i was honest by the fact that they could cut eight inches out of my colon and three days later i was able to eat in normal diet. Go for a walk. got has an amazing ability to repair and what seems to happen after gastric bypass surgery. Is that the gut rebuilds its ability to sense. This hyper Signal which is why in the long run people who undergo gastric bypass surgery. Unless they fix their diet tend to regain all of their weight or a lot of their way so clear human muscle clear described pathway in the medical literature describing what i'm talking about here. I think it's really important that we address all of the evidence absolutely but again the a Not to kind of labor this but yes. We have the fear mechanism the factors that influenced post in justice society or within meals ties than subsequent meals to tidy as it relates to the economic system are highly complex. We've seen that. We've seen that. We've seen that with the for example like just the slight detour but we see that the sugar research right where you know in anonymous model you can infer some of the dsm five criteria for addiction. You can see the effect on the economic system under dopaminergic system of the wanting the liking sizes brain On the new start looking in humans. There's some key pieces that her absence vast volume coming back to. Although disseminate observation is interesting is that they're going in an easy just realized foods there are other factors are component parts of thought foods an isolating the effect of Analysis was to focus on what was actually changing. And i mean i was released surprised that study. 'cause the bicycling view. It was a gift but this. I didn't do it but we're again we're talking about one. Study is observational now. Why do Because security sensitive to this being in nutrition i think there are some times over-simplistic dismissals nutritional epidemiology observational research is hugely valuable in interventions with with feeding looking at fat the because there's a lot of hypotheses of the effects of dietary fat on society. There are feeding studies that have looked at factors like the degree of saturation of fatty acids have that might influence and society as the fat composition of diet willoughby's speaking as it relates unsaturated and saturated fats and some studies that have looked ass. You know feeding high high intakes of little egg. Acid gamma laic acid or oleic acid. Which kind of find an olive oil and looking at energy intake in parameters of appetizer. Otherwise than's I find it difficult to see. You don't really see any relationship between fat specific aspects of society or even indeed over consumption as a result of a specific fatty acid so interesting mechanistic potential plausibility but lack outcome data in humans. That suggests that all of this mechanism adds up to the fact that would actually explain the observations that we're seeing and i think that disconnect is where it becomes difficult to reconcile this in favor of adverse effect because in favor of a potential benefit or at least lack of adverse effect. We can make the lincoln chain with human cabeza an so well that human outcome betas quite. You know obvious in my view. If so let's say you're trying to figure out what causes lung cancer bryant. We all agree what we'll get into. One of the other causes lung cancer may be today but say you're trying to figure out what causes lung cancer and you look at a population of smokers and you try and vary the rate of smoking so they all smoked two packs a day and we'll all agree that that's too many cigarettes right. The appropriate amount of cigarettes in human diets probably zero. So let's say you vary their cigarette intake. You give one take one group down to a pack a day and you put the other group up to three packs a day. Well we happen. We've you know let's just posit that the amount of cigarettes that causes lung cancer is half a pack a day. You're not going to see any effects of that intervention on lung cancer because they're all above the minimum amount that's required to induce it right so if all you're doing these intervention studies and everything you've described so far is a study that's done. On an industrial population that has been consuming excess amounts of seed oils from an evolutionary perspective. And that's according to an nih study for one hundred one hundred fifty years in most cases. Now if you go say to asia and you start comparing this outsider obesity if you start comparing these diseases the chronic diseases to america the older studies you see a huge difference in incidence and prevalence between asia and america. I mean one of my favorite studies. Which i've just been going over again. Looked at the geographic incidents of heart disease. And they did it. By using an unassailable model. They did autopsies. They looked the hearts. If you have a heart attack you it does permanent damage to your heart. That never heals frank so even if you die of a car accident forty years later. They can still do an autopsy and see that you had a heart attack forty years prior so they looked at Caucasians in america They saw there was a twenty four percent incidence of heart attack over the course of their life right but my knee died of it then they looked at japanese americans and they saw a think it was about an eighteen percent heart attack prevalence than they looked at african americans. They saw thirteen percent heart attack. Prevalence now this was done. Back in the fifties sixties. I mean you know. As far as i understand. African americans have much higher Rate of heart disease now than they did back then then they went to japan and they looked at autopsies in japan and the rate of heart attack in japan was three percent. Okay and that's really interesting. Because most of that came from tokyo the rate of heart attack outside of tokyo was around one percent. Okay then they went. They looked at african americans in the cities in the united states then they went to africa and they looked at heart attack. Rates in point. One percent in nigeria. They did forty five hundred autopsies and they found one heart attack. Right if you look and go if you go back and look at the Consumption data that we have for seed what you'll see between asia and here is a massive differential back then and a huge increase. Japan's a great place to look because we know why the japanese started eating seed oils after world war two. We have japanese papers. It's a first world country. They have top universities and they were doing epidemiological research. It's y insult keys. Included them in the seven countries. Study they their seed. Oil consumption went up after world war two because the american government pushed it on them bright and they went from a minute heart attack rate a fraction of what we have over here to something. That's now about half the american rate. And you know as you pointed out in your article omega. Three pufus are protective. That's big founder. Japan's the best example that we have that can founder because they still eat a lot of fish. A lot of omega three fatty acids but we have papers from the nineties coming out of japan the excess lynn lanc acid term came from japan and came from them trying to understand why they're incidents of these chronic diseases skyrocketed after the end of world war two. Okay so i think. The comparison cross country comparisons are always useful and i think in in many respects. That's why although it gets bashed. Aranda that i think. Some of the criticism of the seven countries study is a little unfair because our aspects to study designed the contrast between diets being was nutritional epidemiology faces the challenge Your analogy of cigarette. Packets were often comparing half pack. One pack had jozy differential defects. Compare you know a quarter of a pack four packs. You might see a more meaningful contrast what we're saying is we have this relation between between increase Vegetable consumption generally and we have this than difference in rates of incidents will dot should be if we're declaring their what's being declared. There is kind of empirical facts than it should be evident when it is studied in the population and on the whole this. I guess from prospective data on the whole it isn't i think that's where again we could have all of the Relations with change in human dyas. But unless we lincoln to actual outcomes were into various kinds of illusory correlation Just as an example like the twenty nine th jakobsen paper than eleven cohorts four hundred dollars participants or range of intake You know of one point seven percent. Ten point six percents Or sorry the Analysis and of little egg acid intake up to that eleven percents give or take Seems to be the upper thresholds globally. Although countries differ you tend to see any with a higher than maybe around eleven percent little egg acid and take some some people in the united states. Get up like fifteen percent but yet you're gonna valid point so so within this range of intake from two to eleven percents. This linear reduction in risk for coronary heart disease events and this is just looking at the dose response analysis. This isn't factoring. In if we substitute saturated fat for example so jails looking at the dose-response analysis cohorts across the us. Europe and israel there was another analysis published last year again. Range of one point one to eleven point six percents each five percent increase and this little egg gossip specifically associated with lower risk and so while cross country comparisons are particularly important ultimately might concern for example would be we'll be further reduced cardiovascular mortality. Uk your concern would be headed to be further reduce it in the us and if we were being guided by outcome evidence respectively in relation to that then the outcome evidence in relation to little egg acid would suggest that increasing from very low one to two percent increases not very far about five percents or or even up to at ten percents would benefit in lower risk of heart disease so analyses can only go so far with the actual outcome. Data shows a linear reduction. Risk across these thresholds. I find any study claiming that they found industrial population with a one point one consumption one point one percent consumption of linoleic acid to be incredible to put it politely. I mean the nih just finished an intervention studied and failed to get lynn laic acid. This was a targeted in intervention. By the nih trying to get linoleic acid consumption down to above that level. And they weren't able to do it because it's so in the population so you have when you have the Wait a minute. So i just don't believe this gets us into the wonderful land of epidemiology and prospective studies and the absolutely abysmal quality of the data. That they use these papers. I mean i just came across a paper where frank who who is now co author with walter willett on this paper said that they through the data out where people didn't have a plausible caloric consumption right. The plausible level. They used was eight hundred calories a day over decades. That's a joke. There's nobody who can eat eight hundred calories a day for decades and not die so according to the nutritional epidemiologists eight eight hundred one calories. A day isn't acceptable. Human calorie consumption. I think we can all agree that that's served. These suggested just way i. I'm not with my point yet. So we can look at human interventions which we both agree are a better standard of evidence. We've all heard of the mediterranean diet. Right we've all heard of the benefits that it has for heart disease consumption. The most successful heart disease prevention trial ever the one that made the mediterranean diet. You know after giving credit where it's due years. Our promotion of that diet by ansel keys was leone diet heart study. Which was the first paper was released in nineteen ninety four that was specifically and explicitly linoleic. Acid reduction study. They made a point of getting it down. And they talk in-depth in the paper about the mechanisms behind excess linoleic acid consumption in cardiovascular disease and i will note and we probably have to get into this that the only explanation in the literature for causation in heart disease and the different incidents of heart disease between more ancestral societies as i've described in industrial societies is the pathway that starts with dietary seed oils. This goes back to brown and goldstein. In the seventies when they were trying to induce the first steps of heart disease and bail doing it with ldl and only a later group or green searchers steinberg. Widsom were able to demonstrate that varying seed oil consumption in the diet versus olive oil. Just the same thing that leone diet heart study did although they use a low omega six seed oil can all oil or i think it was actually rapeseed oil in their study. That's the only pathway. That's described in the literature to heart. Disease is one that depends on oxidized linoleic acid. This is overwhelming data. There isn't even another explanation. Offered want to Back up just a bit and Where are these fats prevalent. You know i know we you know. We touch upon polyunsaturated fats. Sometimes it sounds confusing. Because i believe there's polyunsaturated. Fats that are omega threes. That most people would recognize as being fairly healthy that come from fish and You know people supplement with lots of fish oil. But we're talking more specifically about omega. Six fatty acids linoleic acid and Are these like manufactured fats. Like why are these fats. Bad for us if if You know some of these things are just in nature. Wouldn't they normally be pretty good for us or these allen. Can i take manufactured. sure okay. So great point mark. These are natural fats. President president in all foods both omega three and a mega six. some out. there is no point to try and avoid them. Because unless you're in a lab. There is no way to eat a diet. That is void of omega six and omega or omega three fats. Right the issue seems to be that we have had a big shift in the diet. Where are omega three. Consumption has gone way down and are mega. Six consumption has gone way up so my argument would be a healthy. human diet. Looks like something prior to that transition being made where you are going to be eating. I mean beef has linoleic acid right omega six fat and i think beef is perfectly healthy food. That's a whole nother topic made. We'll do another show on that one but Fish has remained Has omega six fats in it along with the omega three fats. So the large amounts of omega six fats. In the modern diet primarily come from refining oils from seeds Like corn cottonseed soybean oils etc and their concentration. I mean somebody did a really great job of showing how many years of corn you have to take to get a gallon jug of western corn oil and it's a what you couldn't conceivably eat that much corn in that short of a period of time so this is not a argument that these fats are inherently bad. It's just that we are. You know. I mean anything water in excesses toxic right. That's what happened to is water poisoning swizzle so important because so if we are talking 'cause mark you're such as described obviously these fats are naturally occurring. Yes there's this industrial processing but in terms of where to kind of look dietary sources. And i think the uk in the us are pretty much par on this. The the the biggest contribution from diet is not that someone in their home is using some rapeseed oil like like they did on diet heart for a salad dressing or to cook on pattern. The primary vehicle of these is processed foods on packaged foods or ultra processed foods. If we talk about the nova categorization so these are foods that you couldn't make in your home kitchen if you tried. Because they rely on a mix of fast. Starch refined grain sometimes added sugar Sodium like everything from like ice cream to serial potato chips. The french fries. I mean it's an a ton a ton of stuff right. So so yeah uncertain. There's one important thing though. Chicken is the number one source of omega six fats in the american diet and that is because these fats concentrate up the food chain and what we feed industry raised animals like chicken or pork or farm-fed fish in some part is concentrated sources of these oils so their consumption of it raises the amount in their adipose tissue and then when we eat it we reading those fats as well. What if you're leading the jones rate in eggs but a Two points talker. And i'm interested to get the because this is something that is always struck me as simple as a disconnect between on i know it to be very in your in your article. I know that you mention this in relation to larne credentials researcher Jerry but when i look at edens research or lord as research i try and kind of because loss of i'm not saying by the way i'm not implying e using this. You would probably aware that a lot of people. I would say maybe almost prevailing false within the ancestoral health community. Whatever you wanna call the paleo on zestril whichever seems very focused on saturated flash for example and at commenting by saying look. It's this omega six. Is the problem. Saturated fats redeem eat more fats. Reduce and then you go to the actual literature from the seminal paleolithic diet researchers at. It's imperfect right. We're using things. Like carbon stabilize took analysis to piece together the diet. But i never seen in estimates of the saturated fat content of the paleolithic diet of both six eight percents of estimated energy which is significantly lower than is almost. It can do a modern mediterranean diet but certainly is much lower than lots of modern people. Who who who profess to follow a paleolithic diet ends while Interesting some of urging getting off topic but go no no. I'm i'm kind of. I'm bringing back to suggest iran. This is so my point. Is that when you look at some of the research on a dane posited this the fatty acid composition of a baseball game niece as as you would find in in kind of modern modern day africa. That fatty acid composition. Yes it does have more omega. Threes but in terms of overall facet composition more polyunsaturated. Fats generally a fatty acid composition. That isn't too dissimilar to if we just look at the fatty acid composition from something like a you know rapeseed oil for example if we look at some of the contents of gotten so so a if the argument is some degree of ancestrally consistency. Why is or is it simply the doses difference. Why is that. The fatty acid composition of this accessible diet may have been quite low in saturated fat at had more of a proportion of polyunsaturated. Fats omega six differs. In your opinion. It's yeah so starters everything that you said about their that you said about the research is correct There is a wide variety within that research though of fat consumption. I mean you're going from populations in most tropical populations eat a lot. More hunter-gatherers eat a lot more carbohydrates. And then you look at people like the inuit who are eating an enormous amount of saturated fats. Also i mean there are new at populations who live inland. Any caribou exclusively. They don't get whatever benefits we have from eating fish. And you know. Historically they didn't kept these chronic diseases. You can go through. I mean we. Could you know the interplay between saturated fat polyunsaturated. Fats is abroad. One and there is little. There is interplay where you know. One of the benefits for instance of the mediterranean diet appears to be that oleic acid the primary fat an olive oil is more successful at replacing linoleic. Acid in ldl than saturated. Fats are so you wind up with a lot of confounded studies where they don't recognize that that is a factor in the different composition of their diets. Which is why you see. Low carb Sorry low fat diets producing worse outcomes in cardiovascular disease markers at the same time we have The verdict corporation which is currently doing a study amongst humans. It's not in our ct but they are treating actual people and tracking their changes. Saturday is sarah. Hallberg is the doctor who is leading that. And she's working with stephanie. And jeff foe look Md phd jeff. Pollick is a registered dietitian. Great team and really changed thinking on how to treat diabetes in the last few years they explicitly tell you to avoid polyunsaturated fats and that fat saturated fats are a healthy food source. Based on experiments. That steve finney did back in the nineteen nineties where he saw acute toxicity in study population from trying to feed them too much. One presumes soybean oil mayonnaise since. That's generally what we've been. Mayonnaise is made with nowadays so they explicitly advise you against doing that. It's not a strict prohibition but nevertheless they are able to you know i mean we'll argue about terminology but they are significantly improving people's diabetes disease and simultaneously lowering all of their All of their cardiovascular disease risk factors released markers for those risk factors so. Yeah i would argue that you know you can look at lots of different populations with lots of different saturated fat intakes and find wildly divergent outcomes that to me seems to be because of the background pufus intake with the observation that there are confound irs by omega three is the most obvious confound or i mean the japanese chinese genetically very similar They both share high frequencies one of the most of the al d. h. To start to mutation which is the most common human genetic mutation and it's pretty much exclusively chinese population so there we know they're genetically very similar and yet they have wildly divergent rates of obesity. China's becoming one of the fattest countries on earth and the japanese are one of the least fat countries on earth. Even though they're both industrial countries the both in the same neighborhood and traditionally eight very similar diet. So you know there are confound irs can have huge effects on outcomes and one of the most to your previous comment about how complex this is bats in there is a lot going on and there are a lot of different interplay between these fats and different parts of the diet that need to be taken into account to explain some of these discrepancies and won't be able to go through the mall today. But i wanted to point out a few of them just to make that clear i. So what are the things that you've raised their the the metabolic health specifically and again. This is where we don't even have to go into observational research. Because i'm what i'm thinking. Specifically of is the research in the last really six years. probably twenty four teams the first study. These are control controlled. Studies randomized control trials looking specifically at the effects of dietary fast modification and composition for effects on hypothesis. Fossil liquor fat. We know liver fat. Actual diagnosis of novels is likely to be underestimated in the population. So there's estimates the prevalence of people with fatty liver is probably as high as twenty five percents and the diagnosed threshold is over five. Percents of your liver cells have fast in the cell honor. Their cells are you. Deliver cells are full of fat. Five percent liver. Cells are full of up and just a little back story for the audience here. That process is thought to be the primary cause of liver failure in the need for liver transplant. So it's not just an academic interest. It's a serious. These correlates with cancer and diabetes. And everything else like Spectrum of novel to the you get this data national. This progression fibrosis all sorts of liver diseases and as it relates to metabolic health particularly overlap with diabetes deliver becomes fatty it becomes insulin resistance elevated free fatty. Acids begins this vicious cycle of facts. Spillover to the pancreas impaired beta cell insulin. Secretion all of this stuff. We've we've studied controlling for energy ballots so their energy maintenance and we overfeeding studies where saturated fat as being head-to-heads with omega six. The muffin traded fats The like the game and the head fat study on a couple of others and there was a really nice review by halle geeky. Arvin unburned that more in a couple of others in nature recently under diatribe modifications for hypnotic fact channel. And we see not. Just the mega six overfeeding. If we're talking about overfeeding context agassi of protective effect. Saturated fast makes the human liver into human forty gras. You see Norma increases in intrapage triglycerides from overfeeding saturated fat. And you either see a minimal increase or no increase at all from overfeeding omega six. If you take that into energy balance context so we're not even overfeeding calories be saturated five increase intra hypocrisy triglycerides to a magnitude of up to fifty to sixty percents. I'm you see. Noah factual reduction from overfeeding or from from omega six so when it comes to these deleterious metabolic effects in humans. In some of these studies have added stabilized. The took tracers to look the metabolic face. We know the polyunsaturated fat has tended to be thought of to results in lower tidal. Mike rinse decreased vehicles that transport fast from the diet into the circulation. And you tends to guess lower kyle. Mike grimm triglycerides with polyunsaturated versus saturated not navy. Because it's simply broken down quicker so again human had comes factors that relate to metabolic health fatty liver detailer Evidence of a deleterious effects of omega six versus saturated fat to me the negative effects particularly as it relates to deliver cash on metabolic health would clearly the from saturated fat intake even energy balanced levels. So i just looked at a study. Van name Twenty out of jail looking at human children overweight and varying the omega six omega three content of their diet in the context of a high carbohydrate diet and they were able to improve their markers of tidy liver disease by explicitly lowering the omega six content. The overfeeding studied you mention. I can't remember the authors. But i always referred to it as the muffin study. It may be with respect one of the worst nutritional studies i've ever seen in my entire life so they took a bunch of people. They have no idea what they ate. They didn't make any attempt to measure their based diet and they gave them two kinds of muffins. One of which was mostly saturated fatty acid. The other one was mostly saturated fatty acids and indeed as you say they got the worst outcome on saturated fatty acid muffins. But as we've already discussed overfeeding anybody is bad for them. Bring so really and of course in that study. They had no idea what they were eating because they made no attempt to track their background consumption right so if you know back to our cigarette analogy they have no idea how many cigarettes those people were smoking. They gave them all they gave some. You know some some filtered cigarettes and some some unfiltered cigarettes but they literally don't know what was behind the diet so i don't think that's particularly useful study except don't eat to any muffins. Limited that says the wave away there with me here so let's talk about an afl day nfl. the is i will deposit the single best example of the causation of omega. Six fat on chronic disease in the human diet for starters. It's a new disease right. When non alcoholic fatty liver disease was first described. It was in like some granny who the doctors were convinced was chugging alcohol when she was home because nobody who wasn't an alcoholic fatty liver disease and this was if i remember correctly back in the nineteen sixties break. There was no such thing as non alcoholic. Fatty liver disease. They thought the lady was lying. Prevalence of afl as you observe is now up at. I think the twenty thirty percent level in the united states right. This is an entirely new disease. Okay now luckily we have a model that we can use in humans and have been using since nineteen sixty one to induce fatty non alcoholic fatty liver disease in humans and it's called soybean oil right so soybean oil is made into a product called intra lipid intra lipid is fed intravenously or through the mouse to people who have were unable to eat food orally there are lots of cases where that's the case. You know it could be trauma. Could be a kid who's born without a gut and there are many problems with feeding people. Intra lipid one of them. Is fatty liver disease in adults and children at it. is stasi's were basically their cholesterol flow through stopped working and it kills liver it ultimately gives them liver cancer and they are then candidates for a liver transplant so over. The last couple of decades. a pharmacist up at boston children's hospital has been looking into what causes this liver failure in these people who were given soybean oil and she has demonstrated that it's the omega six content of the fats that they are fed. And that if you switch them out from soybean oil to fish oil a product called mega then they don't get the liver failure and if they already have the liver failure it goes. Her evidence of this was so convincing. Intra lipid carries an fd a black box warning. Which is the highest warning that the fda will put on an approved medical product. Basically telling you that this product will kill you write. Her evidence was so convincing that she'd never needed to do in our c. T. and she got the fda to remove black box warning from omega. Then because it doesn't cause liver failure because it doesn't contain any omega six fats. Furthermore in the animal models she went through and showed that every single infusion that contained any level of omega six fats causes liver disease and even blending omega van. The fish oil substitute with a little bit of fully being oil prevents omega fan from healing little failure in humans so yes open shut case in humans decades of evidence. Fda approved product. That's not even a close one. In my view and again i will note. The biggest single change in the worldwide diet over the last century has been seventy percent of the fats in the united states. Now according to that paper is cited before our from soybean oil soybean oil is obese genetic in animal models. I mean there's literally a paper in the scientific literature where the title is soybean. Oil is obese. A- genyk gmo soybean oil with less linoleic laic. Acid is less obese. A- genyk right. It is the human model for inducing insulin resistance and other disease that we have an epidemic of so scientists who wanna make humans insulin resistant they in jackson with soybean oil because we've known since nineteen sixty four that soybean oil causes insulin resistance hyperglycemia in humans. Thank you l. That is the best argument. I have for this position water current levels of soybean oil in the us. I don't know what the absolute level is there. A according to the nih a thousandfold since the nineteen hundreds when Wasn't really used as food but in terms of in terms of now because because the evidence that you've sizes there in relation to the effective soybean oil is like largely either the in vitro cell culture or on obama. No children's hospital. They've been treating children this way for decades. It took him fourteen years to prove that soybean oil was the cause of diseases they were saying in human children got a lot of debts. But the the the this is the civic to. Because i'm just trying to marry this of i don't see soybean oil for example in the uk. So i this is. The evidence cited there is very specific to soybean oil is the exponential of interests. Yes omega six fat. There was another There was another parenteral nutrition product that was made out of cottonseed oil which has more omega six than soybean oil and that had to be pulled out of the market decades ago tucker is the feed. That's used when people are put on ventilators as that in any way related to that's exactly cuts total parenteral nutrition in the most commonly used product. Is this intra lipid which is a soybean infusion. So they used inter lipid in this study was children's. I am familiar with this boston. Children's studies so Just kind of asking some questions. So they used the interloop which which is a usually used in total parental nutrition and expressed. They used the exposure in the zoo. They had they had kids consuming at the intrepid versus a control. Now these were not. This was not a study. This was treatment. They've been using it as a treatment in humans since nineteen sixty one. That's one of this. Product introduced sure but injured in the literature on. You know teepee an related liver failure and kathleen gora. This pharmacist at boston. Children's was able to prove that it was related to the omega six content in these infusions. But i'm just so. How was she able to prove it if there was no like surely they even did a control group in the hospital session. Pair controlled feeding. That was the data gave to the fda to get it approved pairs control feeding so sizes time they finally got around to doing in our c. T. in hong kong. It was so well known in the parent community. How bad soybean oil was for children that they weren't able to completely are not because the parents refused to have the children put on soybean oil because of the toxicity it's unethical to do soybean oil infusion ct at this point and that was the evidence that the fda used in approving this product in removing the black box warning right But again ego so soybean. Oil is obviously a vehicle for vegas fats. It's not entirely omega six fats. Than so the idea that dodd holes in variously for any other potential oil. we can't make dot extrapolation that don's They've used other oils. There are variety of different products on the market. I mean one of them is pulled clean. Laic which is made from olive oil which has a lot less Omega six fab in soybean oil and its preferred to soybean oil because it doesn't induce delivered function that soybean oil does produces much less hyperglycemia. Sure but again. We're talking about this specific product right Talking about a treatment approach and the evidence showing that fatty liver disease is caused by mega six fats in humans. But that's not what the body of evidence shows in this specific case familiar with this with this body of evidence out. No i seven not familiar with that study. I'm familiar with the of novels and manages in humans. It's not a study it's decades of treatment. I mean if you go read the guidelines on how to do t-. pin in humans. They say that intra lipid is harmful and they say the only reason we use it. 'cause there's nothing else on the market. This is standard medical practice here. It's not a study okay Real quick i. I am curious about both of your suggestions. Just to the practical individual. Who's listening to this information. It's like maybe. If i'm using certain oils can. I just cut down a bit like From the most practical perspective I would assume maybe tucker you'd say get rid of all of it but like how can take this information and just put into practice even if they're being cautious. Let's say that they hear what you're saying and they're like i just wanna be maybe a little bit cautious with this and be careful until more research comes out. How can people apply it in the best way can. Can i get both of your opinions on that. Well okay but before. I say that. I'd like to address. One point that allen's made a couple of times by saying consumption of this only seven percent that sort of begs the question because that assumes that seven percent is a healthy amount and that hasn't been shown seven percent is several times as high as an evolutionary appropriate level based on what we know from populations who don't consume seed oils and industrial chicken pork. We don't know what the safe amount. It's okay and another point that i think alan and i would agree on. Since he's obviously looked at the paleo diet people eat lots of different diets and they can be quite healthy bryant. I mean everywhere from the new it who often but meat fish to the to santa who ninety four percent yams for heaven's sake or no sweet potatoes and apparently just fine a diet. I think we'd all agree that we'd rather not go on even if it's good for you So basically what i would propose is that you're trying to get back to some sort of evolutionary appropriate. Which is not zero level of these fats with the understanding that they are you cannot get them out and you do need some amount of them in your diet so that would mean avoiding concentrated sources like seed oils obviously but also animals fed concentrated sources like farmers salmon chicken pork. There's a really neat study. Norway looking at what happens when you feed salmon soybean meal. They get fat. they get sick. If you then feed those salmon to mice the mice also get fat and sick. So you're turning healthy foods salmon into something that seems to have negative effects on the salmon and on the things that are reading the salmon yet. So i think these these. These parts are complications. Because i one thing. I went into the head. One thing one thing. I'm quite conscious office when we have these conversations were i'm going to assume typically am fortunate enough to have some means and to have the means to able to have some degree of control over our diet. Adam conscious that that is not necessarily the norm for huge sections of the population particularly At the us the uk huge issues with with access to healthy food poverty and the impact on diet To kind of angles of this one is assuming on if i could kindly interject Agree that a hundred percents huge issue. Yeah unsold so maybe Two angles one assuming a lot of your listeners. Were fortunate enough like us to be able to kind of maybe cook make these decisions. I find that a lot of people are not necessarily going to if they are doing a lot of their own in home. Cooking are likely not their fault composition unless their bulletproof coffee ing or something like that. The polyunsaturated compositions not going to be enormous. Most people likely used something like an olive oil as their primary added fat in terms of kind of addressing. or something. like that for me. I i don't see a difficulty personally with adding like a cold press rapeseed oil which would be really common here in europe oil is what was used in the leone at heart study. Sure so i. I think that as kind of a healthy polyunsaturated oil that could be added for some variety You know and consumption of oily fish. That's not be something we'd be talking about today. So people can have that control yet. Consumption of regular oily fish. Think two meals a day seeing a two meals. A week seems to be the kind of minimum effective dose for fish at the addition of oils like olive oil rapeseed oil. And i think that's pretty much a lot of those bases covered for people that don't have that level of control over their diet and are having to rely a lot on either eating out of the home or a more processed food diet dot becomes really tricky and one thing that i think if you look at population diets on average i think in that context. It might be a case of adding more than trying to substitute so in the uk for example average fruit vegetable intake every day at two hundred fifty grounds. If someone was able to get to four hundred grams the effect would have their health. I think is is far greater than worrying about getting seven percent of of of omega six because potentially of the disp- displacement it might Might occur in other areas of their nutrition. They hear more fruits and vegetables may be potentially in a little bit less of some other stuff. I'm a nodding in. There was a nice study here. It called the crest of the trial which looked at because people complain at dietary guidelines. I would argue. No has ever follows the tai chi on the guidelines. Are here the food industries over here at whatever it wants so there is a study hair that looked at getting people to actually comply with what the over here is called the Guide right meeting. Substituting refined grains whole grains increasing their fiber increase in their fruit and vegetables Lowering their saturated fat from it haired silva thirteen percents Other other dietary modifications compared to just your average british diarist any saw significant reductions in cardiovascular. Risk factors lipids and blood pressure. That will be expected to translate into meaningful reduction event risks. And i think if. I thought i think about those changes. They're there for me. They're more accessible. I don't know if i was talking to someone. In the general population do purchase. A lot of their food is like you know or is on a tight budget. I'd be trying to get them more. To focus on those factors like replacing a refined product with whole grain products. You know trying to increase fruit consumption for example At i don't know that i would be having them sweat that much over any you know percentage of intake of of of little egg acid given the levels of currently out here. And i'm i'm personally not convinced. Inhuman human data that that seven percent is too much am particularly when saturated fat here is still Fourteen percent of energy. I mean if people got that. Dan to ten or nine and replaced it with monounsaturated fats than you might see so that. They're the kind of things that i'd be looking for people to do cooking less with buzzer and more with olive oil for example. Okay well we. I mean in general i think you know allen's focus on home cooking in the problems with eating out. I agree with one hundred percent. Obviously i would put reducing your intake of these concentrated omega six sources seed oils. Whatever else very high on the to do list. But i think we all seem to agree a lot. I mean it is hard eating out I'm super gluten intolerant. That's why i was hospitalized multiple times and doing stuff like that when you're trying to eat out is real challenge. I would also put a focus on things like coconut oil. Which is you know appears to be a very healthy fat. In the obesity genyk soybean oil paper. They used coconut oil as control ended didn't have any negative effect on the animals. They were using and there are human populations like the taliban who each huge amounts of saturated fat from coconut oil. And they're perfectly healthy long as you don't mind the taste than it's not always appropriate with every dish wouldn't want muffin to tastes like coconut oil. Frankly but There are other palm oil olive oil as mentioned avocado oil. All have lower linoleic. Acid takes and you know until we have some better fat options. That's about the best you can do. I mean i've talked to people in india and they you know they're vegetarian by their religion and they don't have a lot of options and i've told them look can oils one of the best seat oils because it's got one of the lowest linoleic acid can oil is what we americans call what you folks over new k. Call rapeseed oil Saint plan. It's just better branding by the canadians here. In the united states after you you talked a little bit early on about Sunlight and i know a lot of a lot of what allen has talked about on my podcast previously. was about circadian rhythm and stuff but i find it really fascinating what you said about sunburn and i think. Sometimes we start to talk about these things. I think people think that were crazy or indeed and and same with allen you know coming on and talking about circadian rhythm. How would it appears that it matters kind when we eat and some of these things I think a lot of us sometimes. You're just like this. Sounds like crazy talk but then we find out years later that maybe we're on the right track What have you found With the sunlight you kind of mentioned maybe being able to handle more sunlight What do you think happened there. While the literatures really clear on that one they can control. susceptibility these animal models. By how much seed oils. They feed them. How much polyunsaturated fats. They stayed them. They feed them they breakdown they break down from uv light into toxins the toxins or inflammatory and caused a lot of the inflammatory response that you see in sunburn skin cancer. There's a gene. Not p fifty three gene which they call the anti-tumor gene which is broken literally preference. The term they use in the papers is preferentially. Mutated by these linoleic acid breakdown products and alarmingly. We didn't get really into cancer in this talk but alarmingly that particular mutation is the most common mutation human cancers and we know that the breakdown products that are specific pulling laic acid induced mutation. And it's specifically happens in skin cancer. There's a doctor black out of australia. I think who did a lot of research on this years ago. Unfortunately he was also saturated fat phobic Advise you to know fat diet which. I don't think it's really optimal so. There's a clear literature showing that's the case to the old epidemiological evidence which i'm really partial to. There's a neat paper looking at some high andes indigenous population Think american military that this paper and they noted that they lived in a treeless area in desert and never got skin cancer their entire lives. I mean that's what we involved for. We've all been africa for heaven's sake right and skin cancer if you look at skin cancer incident rates. It's a steady climbing rise over the twentieth century. That is also not a natural condition. Something has to be causing it personally in. I've talked to lots of other people who've noticed the same thing that i have A lot of people who go carnivore like i don't sunburn anymore. I don't understand what's happening For me i went from like forty five minutes in the sun too. You know six or seven hours before. I'll get a sunburn. I mean. i'm not invincible. I'm not going to claim that it will make you invincible. But that's like the difference between. I live in idaho in the high desert now and i can be out all day in the sun without having to use sunscreen and i just get ten the next day i think that's and you know i mean again as i said blonde blue eyes fair skin. I'm never going to be the equivalent to somebody with a more. Shall we say a. Yeah exactly I'm you know. I don't have dark skin much more susceptible to sun damage regardless of what i eat but the difference to me has been just life altering. I haven't used sun screen. In since eight years. I think and i mountain bike and hike and i backpack a mountainous on all the time. And you know. I just don't even unless i'm going on in all day backpack or something. I don't really worry about it. That's that's been fun interesting like completely familiar with any skin release literature. Although i have a good friend of mine near as a dermatologist. So yeah the libyan interesting conversation for me in the future. But it's certainly something i have never looked into enough. We can know everything i mean. You know i've got my little area. Focus your lawyer. Lots of things that are clueless on and try to pretend allen. Yeah when you came on our show Last time we did speak a little bit about Circadian rhythm and and You know some advantages of eating certain times a day. Has anything changed since you were on the show that long ago but did anything pop up more. Recently you find a fascinating study that You can maybe share with us today and so in terms of recent studies and not yes. So there's you know the the kind of there are more human interventions now the have looked at distribution of energy and tend to find a kind of a negative impact of them later evening energy distribution on glycemic control in particular Lukasz levels insulin. You get this. Really high level of glucose you get. This imperative slim response elevated through the nice while people are are asleep. So think all you know. There's just an accumulating body of evidence and in relation to this from from from human studies. Now which is the because previously the associations were observational. I think for me. The interesting part have running right now. I've got a hundred people who are it's it is observational. But it's the relationship. I think we talked a little bit of Between your your crummy type your individual time of day preference. Some people are more larks. Nice els in this kind of thing. So had people who have natural time of day preference self select for when they each so that the the study that i have running now under some associations with your preference your time of day preference corresponding to certain dietary patterns and the people who are mourning types tend to have more regulated meal pattern where people who are evening types tend to have much more dysregulation meal pattern so kind of interesting to see what he said. I as a night owl. That really strikes true really fit one here it seems to be you know nine hours particularly if they have to get up early so they're they're not hungry. They're tights aren't aren't you know. Isn't it takes a while to get going in the only come into the day. A little bit later in the Starting later in the afternoon but then they're kind of you know in their in their peak mental zone the evening that kind of winter starting to read the frigid more you just described. Maybe granted a lot of this Let's say really fascinating. I appreciate your time from from both of you guys. I think one of the things that is a constant and consistent battle that we all face is You know it sounds like a maybe more simplified version of just about what everybody's talking about Alan i loved your idea of adding you know i think. At addition by subtraction could really help some folks Especially people that have kind of just fallen into Just really struggling with figuring out how to manage their diet On a daily basis But i think ultimately action. Yeah right. I know i. He'd mentioned the paleo diet before. And i think the important thing to know about how that relates to what we now is. We don't know ate all sorts of things we don't know what any one person back then. But we do know what they weren't eating and ultra processed foods that somebody were lie on and i think we could both agree that getting that without getting into all the components. Getting out of your diet is probably the single biggest thing you can do to improve your dietary quality and the hard part is the people that really enjoy. Those foods. probably won't listen to this podcast and so we gotta figure out you know as many ways we can to keep Getting that getting that message. Out there. Tucker. how are you getting your message out there. You have social media. Have you written any books or do you have your own podcast or anything like that. I am i have a website. yelling stop dot blogs dot dot com my blog which up there for ages. I very active on twitter Not i post lots of nice pictures on instagram Really participate they're they're i think they're nice pictures anyway. and i am in the process of writing a book and also doing a bit of podcasting of late mainly interviewing science scientists which has been really amazingly educational process. Because the one thing. You can't ever stop doing this field that i'm sure alan will agree is learning. It's constantly changing field and we're constantly refining things and it's you know you're always gonna learn something they're constantly changing. Go back to the beginning to tell us to eat. Probably the exact exactly andrew seeming. You guys have anything else to add before we wrap up. This was exciting with it was fun to listen to and the big thing that again that the big thing i was trying to kind of understand was how can how can anyone to supply this to their daily life and then see how they can benefit. So i'm happy that we both able. We were always going to get to that for the people. But i hope we do this again at some point because he was great. It was great fun. Thank you gentlemen asks for help Appreciated tucker was the two projects and stuff didn't In good faith so thanks very nice to talk to you on. I hope to do so again. Absolutely awesome guys. Thank you so much for your time. I've a great rest of your allen allen. Where can people find you to. I am so yes if the odeon instagram of the reversal of tooker twitter. Twitter goes too fast for me. The traditional underscore advocates. I also produce content with sigma nutrition. So myself donnie. A have a weekly are sorry bi-monthly podcasts and we do written statements on my own website eliminated nutrition which is really a healthcare professional research review focus platform for nutrition science. Thanks again guys it. Thank you cheers s. Cool stuff ban. Nice not diving in their house. My some deep tells real big grave way deep house like ooh what it reminded me. This is probably like the first week of like college Weird analogy but like when all my friends were like still in the thirteenth grade trying to get into like a legit like english class I went from high school and has walked right into lake. And i i am bragging a little bit because like i don't do well in school but like for writing and english and shit like like leaps and bounds. Better than everybody else so i walked into this like legit college class when everyone around me like way older and on my own shit is a community college so a lot of parents are like trying to get their degree and shit and so here. I am like whatever seventeen eighteen years old and we start to like kinda get down into. What's like we have to start doing. And i'm just like oh i fucked up like this is too much with today's conversation like man i was that was that was a lot. There's actually Some really interesting stuff that we didn't get into when it comes to meat consumption but Some of the things that That tucker believes happened from eating some of these omega six fats They get kinda blunted by eating meat because meat has carnoustie and karna scene is a scavenger of these of these damaging fats. At least according to some of the information he had. But i just the more that we do this podcast the more. I know that sometimes things get really Deep and complicated and complex but the more complex they get the more simple they end up because just end up going. Oh yeah that was the right way to eat the whole time. The statistic with whole foods and We even heard Michaela peterson talk about this. I've heard many others talk about this Sean baker is an advocate of is. He doesn't really and paul saladin. Oh i think paul does some different stuff with his diet but a lot of these people. They're not even really trying to intermittent fast. They just chose to have a diet. That is comprised of A low variety of food. I know some people are like you need food. Variety will that may be true for some but other people might find this to be really effective to have a small variety of food and most of the people that we know they're variety of food is tiny like the people that are getting on stage that are competing fitness even powerlifters that we know that are really efficient uses. A variety of food is not not massive either. I think at some point it just gets to be easier. you're Don't have so many different decisions to make on. What the hell the and your concern and worry over to how polyunsaturated fats does have high fructose. Corn syrup in the answer is no every time. If you're eating some beef. Eating some piedmontese beef You know that it's Grass fed grass finished. You know a lot about it. You know the it's high protein and as You know more modest and fat and you know exactly what you're getting but you go out to eat or you start to kind of roll the dice on some processed foods. You don't really know what you're ended up with straight up man by doing this podcast through the years like my diet has continued to get the still down so now if somebody comes to my house and they go to my my fridge. They're like they see a lot of meat Maybe they see some kimchi. Maybe some yogurt. Like like my diet has just distill down and as we were talking today. That's why like practically i mean. I'm i'm actually very interested in. He mentioned palm oil palm. Oil is used in a lot like a lot in west africa and a lot of nigerian boots. They use heavy amounts of palm. Oil nigerians got no heart attacks. What's up with that but palm. Oil is the main oil that's used because also from palm trees gets up and called palm wine. I'm not gonna get into that. That's a nigerian meam. If you're nigerian was you get I'm gonna start bringing back some palm oil because that stuff is a goo goo good but yeah like i. Don't you know with the way that we cook. All of us here I don't use vegetable oil saw. I almost ever have although in my house. But they're all it opened and it's not because i choose not to use it. I'm on voiding it just the nature of the way. I cook haven't used it a very long time. So you'll notice an bike. I used to think like. I used to eat more variety. Don't need to now. i don't. I don't feel like i'm restricted either. Just because of the way we eat. I think i think that fasting plays into that a bit too as as wild as that sounds. It doesn't seem restricted to be fasting and to how a low variety of food in some weird way. Like once you like. It's i've never cooked up a steak After i've been fasting for sixteen hours or twenty hours and been like this is gonna suck so pomp. I'm like literally like drooling on fired up and a lot of times. I'm even trying to cook something else. I so i can get to something else i. I'm i'm throwing in the eat right into the microwave. Wave when i get home. And i'm i'm cooking up some shrimp or something like that but It can really be useful to you. Know have a low variety of foods. And you can help yourself to avoid a lot of the a lot of the potential dangers and eating some of the foods that we talked about today running into some of those weird fats and takes time though right. I'm again thinking back. I remember i used to like again. Getting into all of this stuff remembering when i else trying to eat everything healthy. It was like you know like oh you gotta eat you know chicken broccoli and rice and then like i would even have boiled chicken because i'm supposed to have like the healthiest non artificial anything and i'd be like after like dane half like i would. I would have for lunch one day. And then the next day i heated up disliked would pick at it. I couldn't eat. i couldn't do it. I was done so then. I believe that unlike up. I'm somebody that needs variety. I'm somebody that needs something different every meal every single day. And then now it's like yeah i can. I can handle chicken every day if i had to Now i'm eating a lot more stake in a meeting. More fatty cuts. I am having salmon from eat right but yeah it's it's tough because i would get super frustrated because i look around and be like We'll talk like they're they're able to do it like what's wrong with me but it just it just takes a little bit of time and you know taking some of the other bullshit out of your diet definitely helped me. You know like again thinking back about all the stuff that i was doing. I remember i would like go in and out and be like. Oh no salt. I give rid of all the salt. Like i don't want any salt because i'm trying to be healthier but i'm still eating the fries and you know that's cooked Sunflower seed oil. Have no idea if that's good or bad or not doesn't matter it's definitely not something if i'm trying to like all the bad shit out of my diet i'm going to have that in then wonder man. Why can't i eat chicken and be happy. I'm just putting all the odds against myself and the now taking all that shit out Just trying to eat more state from piemontese and you know it's just yeah it just takes a little bit of time in some focus. I think it's good for people to recognize that you may want variety but you don't need variety usua- we would just human wouldn't be around the points in time where we didn't have a we didn't have as many choices. We didn't have hardly any choices at all on what we eight eight. Whatever animal was around or whatever Berries or whatever was growing at the time so i think it's just important just to understand that that you're the psychology of your nutrition A lot of it. Is we a lot of it. We make it up. You know we make we make it up that we all i need snacks. I hear people say all the time. I need something. Crunchy and those kinds of things are interesting. Because crunchy foods could be could still be healthy foods. I mean you could eat a. You could eat some cucumbers. you could In-app will you could eat. I mean there's plenty of things that have Celery there's plenty things have some snap and pop to them. That have some crunch tone but usually when people say they want some crunchy almost always talking about something that's processed and it's like there's not really a lot of room in really anyone's diet for those types of foods i mean you can have them here and there Maybe they represent five percent of your diet or something like that but sounds plenty reasonable but not something you probably want. Be munching on all the time. And you wanna take us on out of here buddy. I will Huge era and thank you to element electrolytes for sponsoring today's episode. Make sure you guys check out how we hitting me with that thing off leaks to them down with description of laws. The podcast show notes drink. L. dot com slash power project. It makes you pick up a value. Bundle because you're gonna get four boxes for the price of three. Follow the podcast at mark bells power project on instagram at nbc. Power project on talk in twitter certain posted on twitter. And re are on a tic talk and reels and all that good stuff so if you guys are into that make sure you follow along. My instagram and twitter is at andrews insieme. What's up hats. Apple leave review piece. I know you guys love us any on instagram to youtube. I didn't seem like a yin yang onto gunshy market. Cayman islands could walk down the street select. I seen crazy. I feel like we've got some good momentum going here with this podcast thing. We are hearing it. I think it might work just a you might just work. It's not going to bad My tick talk is blowing up really well. Thanks to mark. Thanks to jessica smith who's always Plugging away working at it. And my My tick-tock life coach encima just basically just tells me to take my shirt off and play with my nipples lot. All you gotta some for some reason that works really well a at mark smelly bell on all social media platforms. Strength is never weakness weakness. Never strength catch you guys later.

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Rage Texting with Katie Maloney Schwartz

Taste Of Taylor

52:51 min | 4 months ago

Rage Texting with Katie Maloney Schwartz

"The following podcast is a deer media production. Hey guys i'm maddie orlando. And i'm laurin arlanda as you probably guessed were sisters. And we're also co hosts the podcasts the sister diary every we let our listeners into real life conversations like the ones that we have at home. We have an eight year age gap so we always have a different perspective on things but that makes it pretty fun talk about navigating life growing up on social media and pretty much anything else that we find interesting. You can catch a new episode of the sister. Diary every friday Hey girl hey. Welcome back to my weekly podcast taylor. I'm your host. Taylor strecker today joining me. I am so excited. She is here. Because i love her. She's here because we are fan. And she's also here because we're going to recap the wild trip. I just had to los angeles schwartz hegel. Hey girl hey my god so much to dog up. Especially the fact that i the last time i saw you. I made you braid my hair. Drunkenly and then i went to sleep on my last night in. La at three p m what. You didn't leave until after four so that would be impossible. I mean you kind of already asleep. I just seen with night but you were there but you were not there so my this every fucking time. I'm in la on my last night. There i get like crazy. You weicker wasted. I like can't function. I did it when we were at the You do you remember me at the super bowl party when there was a super bowl. How many years ago. Two or three years ago i was with jean. Do the halftime show. Because i remember j. Lo do we show and then that's it. Yeah that was its pre covid. We'll say pre covid because that's the only point of reference. I i think it was twenty twenty like right at the beginning of two thousand twenty so right before y'all everything okay. Four i remember j. lo spitting and i was like and then i remember up on the couch to taco bell and the morning. We're on the way i was like. She was fun she was like. You literally had to be escorted out of roscoe's bras by and she was like you were like beyond fighting aggressive and i was like i. There's something about you guys get around my family and the thing is you guys are all excited on my last night. At what will you just gotta go out with a bang. You know it's like you're playing it cool all week because you still got to work and then luckily the last day. And you're like wait so we went our very last day and la with tay stasi bo katie. And i all went to the abbey. It was my virgin voyage to the abbey on sunday. Jurat which is katie. I said i think i said this when you're at the table i was like i know my sexuality because obviously i'm in actually ship with woman so people identify me as lesbian queer coupons. Things worked for me. Some people like i think i bisexual because i was with men before i ended up with taylor but i actually think i am sexually. Attracted to drag queens. That's my sexual orientation. I am in love if dragging get me going excited. I mean how could you not. it's just the like. I think everyone gets excited around drag queens fabulous there everything life. I feel like you've really made it as an ito. Pop icon are just a person when you have a drag queen impersonator. Absolutely that lady gaga one was in sane in next level. It was like lady gaga. Was there literally yeah. That was my second time seeing and center. We had like a really premo table which was almost like nerve wracking whose pressure there is pressure. You know. obviously there's tipping. Which mean was fun. But it's like when you give tips you get a lot of attention and when you're right in front of the stage you know you gotta tip but it's the right thing to do but then also holy shit like just so much. We were tipping. We were videotaping. There was just such a commotion. I got so excited was my drinks faults. No it's the the abbey. It just does it for you like everyone's just like i was. I don't wanna get drunk. And i'm like the abbey's just gonna take care of that for. You are so strong so so strong like you can't just like casually go to the abbey you don't just get a couple of drinks and then just go home like you. It's like balls to the wall there. Well i my balls were like fucking superglue to the wall on the ceiling like literally and we have a couple of questions because that was like was. I know you were just chilling. Only i have you been having like the scary movies. The sunday scurries the monday. The hang just been like replaying that through your mind having the guilting over the of the in my as always like really hard on me so like if i like. I get grumpy or quiet. She gets embarrassed because she's such a people pleaser so like she's always extra hard amies so i can never really use her as a barometer like know what i mean. Does tom do that to do. Yeah like he doesn't get hard on me. But it's just like i he i know he would say he'd be like baba baba in the morning right and you're like what i do. Yeah basically basically go through your phone and make sure you didn't tax rates. You gotta go through your an scrammed. Dm's make sure you weren't just like sending weird shit to people. Yeah you know. We're gonna in this podcast. We are absolutely address. The fact that i am. Katie eighty s me. And we are both and taylor donahue my fiance schwartz. This war is hard like we are in the exact same relationship. And i really realized that this last trip in particular but i want to put a pin in that. We'll talk about that in a second. 'cause i find it fascinating and i need advice because i'm about to marry essentially your husband so i would like to know how i'm supposed to navigate this i'm use to i mean people pleaser but i'm also like i can definitely get in moods and i speak my mind and i'm like you know a lot of opinions but i think i'm pretty easy going usually by next to taylor donahue. I'm raging lunatic. I'm sort of it. I wouldn't say you're a people pleaser. I wouldn't say that. no i think. I think you are personable and you know you you are. You put yourself out there you can you. Can you get along well with people but not. You're not out there trying to please people in bend over for everyone. That's true data narrow. That's yeah. I like to get along with people but if i i'm also very comfortable knocking along with people correct okay. So we go to. The abbey took this very sitcom ask picture outside lobby. I was literally like smiling like a contested automatic model. What i was doing which is like death staring. All of you guys have also made me nervous like was being would did i. And then we went to another bar. That's what i should have gone home. And that's when i ordered when i'm ordering mango smoothie tropical drinks. You need to send a bitch home okay. That is a telltale sign. I thought that was a bold choice. Like why do you think he get fancy glass. I was like she wants the frozen drink -cation and then my last vacation and then i made you braid my hair. You yeah made an aggressive about it video video. I will be posting it. Oh like in coordinates with this podcast. You're yeah the videoing went on. I have you watched like all of it. I think there was. I think there's more than one can't tell you the truth. I was too scared to rewatch it. Until i just talked to you because i was. I was scared to see if i was a raging. So fast that you've just told me i was fine. I can now peacefully. Go back and watch it. Because i'll i'll post them now. That i like i. We took a cute picture where you look like you have it together with the money spread out. I had that picture. We'll because when you go to the drill drag shows especially after covid like you know that was a hit hard performer. So it was like i mean. I'm usually stingy bitch but not now. I was like these drag queens to get tips honey at one hundred dollars once no your eyes earlier little closed but it's pretty cute cute. I looked funny hammered. You look a little ham boned but all my drink all the drink either. So that's a telltale sign and fogged up whole drink in front of me to help call nine one one. He's stop. You had like we were also sitting right next to each other barstools and you're like craning your neck back and you're like why can't you bring my hair kaleen. It's clean on. Like i know that's why i can't braid your hair and you're like wait is dirty and you're like no it's like can't breathe clean hair because it's too slippery. Will you did a pretty good job. You can hear live happier than when you braid my hair in the entire world. That's like everyone fun for you. I can't go on a girl's trip because you know what by three pm. I starting this duma here tonight. Can you bring me here to me. And i'm like who's gonna do katie's here tonight. I do like sign up on the sheet on my door. Literally remember we you install came to visit a new york taste like right down the street in fidai you guys were saying and we came over there and you like gave me some sick as like half a path do braids jewish. And it's so jealous. Yes that's what happens is because sometimes i'll be like okay. I can do it one person's here in this first come first serve and like people started clearing in being like asking me right at the beginning and so like who would ask me and i'd be like lie already told saucy idea they're like ow just josse only bush. She asked me if you you gotta know you gotta get in early. You know because it's just like okay. Yeah i got my appointments book up fast start charging people like damn squad. Prices will shows up. I also so it's it's never enough time together when we're in la. I will. yeah. Because i was a little busy. Yes i was actually. The thing is is tan. I like haven't taken an actual trip since cova started so her. And i and we. We see no signs of stopping. I'll even know that we're going to get to take a honeymoon. I know it's insane. Well we'll we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. i'll come. We were talking about that. Yes katie camp. The most genius idea so she was saying what we should also. We're having like a super small pretty much like twenty five people under family ceremony and my parents because my parents are gonna sell their house. And as like a total rush. I'm like i'm so happy everybody's to get like this wedding going after a pandemic i'd like i don't know what year lose some weight but whatever what everybody else wants to be here so in my mind. I'm like this is like a love ceremony but we're going to have a wedding wedding and so we have been planning on like i. I would say late spring early summer. Having like a fucking blow out part way where we invite like all of our favorite peeps and we like that's ultimately the reception. That's like the wild. Let's get fucking crazy party. But katie came up with the best idea ever and she was like. I actually think stretch that. I think that you should have a honeymoon where you invite like your favorite people on the honeymoon with you and so like. That's the reception party honeymoon vibe and i think it's the most genius thing i've ever heard of and i can't believe people don't do it. I mean you and tom technically did it. With saucy fully planned is sort of like we were on our honeymoon and then the last three days where like just hit up some of our friends like does anyone wanna come. Meet us and sausage. I'll do it and so yeah it was like it would just kind of was a spontaneous thing but it was actually just awesome. It was so much fun so like you and take go and you caviar romance time together and then you have like a really awesome blowout party with all of your friends while you start to get really bored. I mean can love your partner but like it's a lot of alone time and you can only sec so many times in a day after week. You're kind of like. Oh it'd be fine if like especially when you're in a really dope location that you wanna like your like your friends are here. You know it's kind of like you're married so like you can't spend the rest of your life and take a more trips together at them. And i don't know maybe people will strongly disagree with me on this one but most people i talked about this or like actually i think that's pretty genius but also what i love about a. too i love weeding a bitch out. Okay so because now you paper another fucking party exactly well because people who love you pony up and show up people who kinda like you and wanna drink your booze near your food bill. Show up to fuck in any so it's like like the amount of where we wanna go on a honeymoon anyway so if we have a crew of people that are like down to come on the honeymoon like what's better than that. You know what we should do. I think i know what we're gonna do whence doc- boat finally if they get their shit together and get to go to italy for their wedding. I hope to happen. She refuses to talk about. But i know i think it will. I'm holding out. Hope still and so maybe tain i will go out early. We'll do like some romance. Just the two of us like a clear up somewhere taste. Never been to paris which is like the most romantic in the world. So maybe we'll do like a romantic long weekend thing because we're already flying out there. Then we'll go over to italy do the wedding and then we'll make everybody come on our honeymoon after two like stuck in santro pay or some shit like that damn morocco or something. Just like fierce and fabulous. That's that's bad. Ass in hijacks dossier and bows go over. Well now perhaps maybe maybe my what around that by might wanna run that. So yeah so. I think that that's a genius idea so do that. Also i didn't get a chance to tell you about. This are used to rage taxing. Because apparently i am. This is just me slowly morphing into you. I rage jackie. Only only once in a while when it's like really just. I'm not just like firing them off like i used to. You know i don't i. Don't just like willy nilly that shit. It's like it's like it's it is very choice very targeted when it's kind of deserving so let's do a little nuts or not my favorite segment over here. It's like i do some things that my partners thinks i'm crazy over and i'm like no i think i'm actually well within my rights to go gray and i feel like when you're to kill it off you know your next you're very level headed person. I actually think even when you are to kill it up if you want to know my two cents. Oh well thank you i would. I would agree with you. Me and you and a bunch of people memorial day we're having this conversation about honeymoons and you're the one that brought up the like honeymoon party rows your idea. Okay crafts do so. I'm a dinner with stasi in imbo anti like few nights later at the beverly hills hotel and we're drinking because one of the the poll lounge to do it and basically brought up this idea like she invented it. I was like wait. No i was just having this conversation. I think it was created at brought it up and i totally agree like we should do it and then stopping. But we're like no don't take credit for it. Taylor just came up with it. And i got like i was getting so mad and then tae rather than be like. Oh yeah maybe we did talk about. She was like he yeah. She ganged up. And i like shot her like a death stare right. What right so then. And it's honestly the dumbest thing ever because ultimately you're the one that should be installed because it was your idea but for some reason i took it on like it was my idea and so we went to the bathroom and he was like what did i do wrong. And for whatever reason when tae when she does something wrong and she doesn't know what she did wrong. There's nothing that makes them more mad than that it's like. How do you not know you didn't wrong. do you know me. Do you know who how i operate. Credit for katie's idea use mine. So i was like you always have to be the favorite you always have to be and yes i think i'm gonna like i was like kissing in. The bathroom was selfish. Yes she was like oh to uber. I'm in the back it's like it's like an suv. I'm back with dossey table in the front. Everybody's having fun. And i am being off bitch and i start texting tight because i can't. I'm not going to fight with our start rage. Taxing what what. They call rage texting. I call communication okay. So i'm like raleigh word in communication communication so we got that house. I was like i am drunk and i am. I'm on one. I'm going to go to bed. So i went down to go to bed and then stocks came down and she was like stopping me. Bitch baby. what is going on. You're being so quiet and we not like i'm tired. Just leave me alone. And she was like no come upstairs and hang out and then she was like also stop rage texting tae and what to say and she was like just told us. You were raged texting. And i was like but can i just forced off you to be down there. I cried for like twenty five minutes. And then i really did if you if you thought. That was rich. Wait until you see what. I got it over you. But average texter if your partners responsibility to keep that eight say janas. Because that's that was always upset. Thomas because i was sending checks i know yeah that would upset him and it would trigger him but only everyone knows about it in it and suddenly. Now everyone's fucking and talking about it. And i'm just like dude like is nothing sacred any. I wanted to fight environment. I don it. That's what i mean. I'm not afraid to come in your phase. i'm trying. I'm trying to not fight with you. You know what i mean. That's like a key when we were going on a flight to mexico and he up whom upgraded to first class for god. I literally forgot to take so audibly petty of me but like knowing the exact same thing as you exact same thing just refresh our memories in case somebody doesn't know the reference so we all took casts trip to mexico a few years back and tom just randomly selected to be upgraded when mike turn comes to board the plane. There's his stupid ass just sat up in first class with like a little lake. Mimosa as i walk. And i look at him. I'm like you little piece of shit. You like you do not even care about. I cried like i do. I what i was thinking like. You can't just trade. See you know what i mean you. I mean i guess. I made was. You're with me one okay. Well yes oh. I just look at him on like excuse me what's and and he. He looks like what did he tell you. You've got upgraded. No i don't believe doing damage or the exact same person he would do that she would she be like you're so scary and i'd be like well. You want to know what could make scarier. Nah i go not telling me or you know lying to me. It's like it's just like. I don't like surprises. So yeah so. What i saw him. I was just like You me and rhythm louis. Gooden okay like you know and so i was just like maybe have had like our flight golic a little delayed so maybe add sat at the bar and had a few drinks enough so we should when they travel the right way to go. I just start spiraling as i'm walking all the way back to the twenty seventh row and i'm just like oh i just texting him being like what does like texting. Because i don't want to. I just need to get it out of my system. So we don't spend the trip biting and especially like you know in front of everyone in front of cameras yes So the rage taxes important. Because what you're doing is you're looking for resolution via tax and sometimes text actually better than fighting especially when there's people in god i mean rip cameras around but it's like when we rage checks were looking for to say i'm sorry and take ownership. Guess what if that happened. It'd be texting but it's like this was like wasn't all it so i felt but it's also like it was so ridiculous but it's like dead and then he decided to get his stoff at me. Tell arie one. And then it was like the worst start to the trip and then it was like then detailing everything i was saying to him and to lake This episode of tastes of taylor is brought to you by coors pure. Okay so i am. Who getting real close to the wedding day. I am like just a little over two months away from the big day. And i've been trying so hard to be healthy eating well sleeping well drinking water. Just you know. 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It's organic but it's chill about it. Just go to pure dot com to see where you can find cores. Pr and don't forget to celebrate. Responsibly coors brewing company. Albany georgia and now back to the podcast. That's such a betrayal showing some showing private text messages to outside people is i. Don't care wild eventually but you know does part of like don't rage text. Because i would. I don't want get heated like that. I would rather like people. Just hear what i have to say because it always is always gonna come across like meaner through tax certain things like that and it kinda like lives forever one so i. I actually haven't even looked at it since i did it. Yeah so i mean. I just like i try not to. Because it's just like i don't want to like have the risk of i'd rather than fine. I'll just save it for your face. And then and then if you want to repeat the things i've said fine but luck good luck but you won't have proof so Yeah it was ridiculous. I know i was being ridiculous but it was just like you. But he made it ten times worse by telling everyone that i was sending him range checks and telling him what i was saying that. So i'm looking right now. Do bringing it all back up it was. It was like the most lake extra ridiculous. I've ever been but you know what i am who i am. Oh wow yeah. I really went in. Maybe i'll keep that to myself doing the whole like i don't wanna marry. You know that might come out of tonight. You'd have been there. That was yeah. That was kind of my go-to being like wow. This is really. That's that's a vibe right there. Should you should tell deleted. Delete the evidence but no. It's so funny it's like i mean tae schwartz. They're like spirit animals. They're kindred spirits like have you ever seen him with somebody who he is so similar to. Because i really haven't ever seen tape with somebody. She so similar to know there is. I didn't know there was anyone so similar to him. He's like he's like his own breed. Exactly so is so what. Gimmie three pieces of advice for marital bliss because you. You've been with tom longer than i've been with. Ti how long have you guys together. Eleven years holy. Shit okay. tena will be six years when we get married so that was. We were six years when we got married idea joining. Okay so it really is. So what are the best pieces of advice you can give to somebody lax just like you. Gosh i mean on the because they are so triggered by you know yelling in anger it is our best interest to really try to get a hold of it. Okay i know it will. It will trigger them and because often they aren't the type that are going to want to like fight back they will tend to harbor negative feelings. They will hold they were bottled at. They will harbor resentment like i. That's what i found out what tom like he. He harbored a lot of resentment towards me because of outbursts because of actions and things i had set right now like we had to deal with that and it would be nice if we could have dealt with it when it was happening. But you know it can. Because they're not confrontational. They have tim communicating those feelings. That they just they just close off. They stopped down. And then but the shutdown builds resentment. And then you're in a fight four years later and you're like whoa and i'm very comfortable with. This is a monster comfortable with anger. The motion of anger. I feel anger is a human emotion. We're all allowed to feel it but got tae is berry like a delicate words just like. She just doesn't like anger she's really doesn't like it says she doesn't want to tell you when she's mad at you right which is probably a lot you know it's takes. Some people like express. A emotions and feelings of angers is is difficult for tom. He doesn't like to tell someone when he's upset with them are mad at them and so when he so he would just wait till he was passed. That feeling that that asks that feeling and just like would wait for it to pass and then just continue on and never talk about it but it would. I don't understand that. I don't understand i don't either but it would still be there until it would come out in a fit. So do you think that and how to his come out like like private one on one. Does he have tantrums with you. You just get mad at you. Randomly out of nowhere it would be. It would be when i would like. Let's say i was having one of by you know like when you're having one of your leg angry spots like she's very calm so infuriating right but more with your eating get angry with me but there would be one of those times and he would fight back here doing. Yeah but it would. It would all like bob. You know it all just come to. It would be the straw that broke the camel's back with him totally yes oh same with ti so and then also have you worked on like like casino. We aren't couples therapy. My therapist told me this thing. Can you describe as this audience. I don't know how to explain it. You see what. I'm doing my arms like a like a like a barometer right. Yeah it's kind of like if you put your left arm against valvo of your right arm. Would they're measuring applause. And they're like ooh goes up applause. Yes yes or like when like like think of like Like geometry a saas lease triangle or right triangle if you bring it down to a flat surface that's what it is and so my. What are those things that you draw. Little circles with geometry class contrast competence took a compassi. Put a terrible visual terrible visual out. Anyway just armed arm. Lower the arm down but feel. It's an important thing for people to see because it actually really helped me so my therapist. We were like in therapy in person with masks on which is like so. We're trying to like like like show emotion with math gone so i was getting frustrated per us and tame like a year like getting mad. And you're like you're yelling not yelling. This yelling and my therapist was like you are. And i can't help that. I have a gruff voice and talk loud. That to me is not yelling at my therapist was like you just need to like lower down. Its convergence she said you are sad but what you're reading is anger so you need to figure out a way to bring it down so that you can convey the proper tone. This is actually fasting. My therapist said that. Because i was like i'm saying all the right words and then taes always like i'm always saying the right words but i'm like i don't believe your word she's like i don't believe your words and so we're seeing you're being like we're saying the right words. No one believes each other and my therapist. That's because tone. Human beings read tone before they read words. If your angry even though you're saying i'm sad sad. That's not going to track but i'm like i'm saying the right things. Why isn't she get it. We're in with her when she's like i'm sorry like i hear. I'm sorry compassion. But what i hear is i'm sorry and i'm like that's not real and she's like i just apologize. I'm like it wasn't a real like nyerere micromanaging. My apologies saw. We really had a breakthrough. That tone is everything so like. Her toe needs to be more like sincere and apathetic. And my tony's to be like less angry and sad so like now. I'm finding myself being like my feelings are hurt but not when i reach texted ally that did not get tone is is key and that's a big one. I had to learn to not just with tom but with a lot of people like i wasn't even aware of it either. I feel like my therapist. Like you're doing it. And i was like you know what's really frustrating when you tell me. I'm doing something that. I have no idea what you're saying. It's like how can i fix a problem if you recognize it but it's like it's i trust my therapist. I trust today. But i'm literally like anyone's talking about this whole yelling thing. Meanwhile i'm probably screaming at the top of my lungs saying that. But yeah it's been it's been like a journey from truth katie. I still don't know that i'm doing it. But i'm trying now to trust the people around me that like i must be doing it. Yeah that's i think that's kind of where you have to just become super self-aware in the sense that when someone calls you wanted that you have the you know the the trust and patients and wherewithal to just take a beat and go. Are you like. Are you fully in control of it now or are you like. Do you have to go on. Like outside cues Depends i was. I was pretty. I'm pretty in control of it. But you know i haven't i but again nyc. I'm sure i'm sure. I could easily be put in a position where i could just become just. I don't know we need to put to the test triggers real. we'll speak. Which how is filming vanderpump going good. I mean it's different. Obviously without familiar faces familiar. People that have been there from the beginning so that was an adjustment. It is an adjustment. But you know it was weird because he had like being in a lockdown for a year and just kind of sitting at home or doing like the burma of like what we could. Do you know all things considered to than just kind of like going back to work and then just being busy. That was that was hard. I was like i have no stamina. I gotta stay up past ten o'clock that was Yeah i've gone back into the swing of things. And i think i think it's going to be good. I think there's been some drums for sure. I can't say anything i like. I try mean a position. yeah say it again trump. but i don't wanna piss off bravo. Pr probably are. i love you. I respect you and your boundaries. Liberties thank you. Yeah but yeah no. It's i think it's going good. I'm excited i'm excited for it to come back. I'm excited to be back. I like i love it. I want to do it forever. But you know it's different. It's it's different. When do we have an idea. It's coming back. do we know yet. I think because we're filming around the same time as we usually do probably come back the same time as we like bravo will announce we usually find out when everyone else does. But it's usually like winter fall sometime out of india. Yeah no idea is usually in january. But sometimes a little bit. Before i leave. It's been so long now. Well i cannot. I know i've i see all your faces fighting with each other. Tiers drama renaming. Yeah oh my god. So funny so random. I totally forgot about this. So the la and i went home to take care. She was going home. Take care of hartford. And i was. I also realize when it comes to like anger like for me. Like i can start feeling myself like getting pissy paranoid when i drink so rather than just keep pushing through the first thing that we were together. We were drinking tequila at like one pm. And i'm like. I'm going to be a fucking monster if i don't get my ass home so i went homeless dossey because i'm a good friend. Sure because i'm good aunt. Yeah totally also. Because i was try not to ruin everybody's time so we went home. I ordered my fucking sushi. I had some sincere and your girl was a pagan shit. I was so happy but you guys stayed out and you guys went to tom. Tom and i have to ask question so a bunch of my listeners. From probably the taylor schreker show. And i talked about on the show but a bunch of people were damning me and i was like. Are you going to be like have my bach or you. Deeming me because it's like you're being shady so not a ton of people but enough people me screenshots of the account do more uhesly. I saw this so joyful was like an anonymous gossip site gossip girl. Somebody recently showed me a picture of dumas. I know who she is. Show me. I have to get the picture from somebody else. Show me. i'll try to get it for you. But it's like i really trust this source. I really think that like. I have a good. I think i know who i know. Gossip girl is but what what a what a person has built right no. It's it's why i i saw. Yeah hell yeah. I saw what you're talking about the tip the tidbit tip of the citing the citing the me. Tom and boast hiding at tom tom because they said bo was talking to a couple of old ladies older women. I don't work call because he was sitting with me and taylor okay. This is what i want to ask you about. So yeah so do they run like all sorts of things and i've been in the every now and then which makes me feel really fucking cool but i will say there's nice stuff there's mean stuff there's all sorts of stuff on dewan. It's all from anonymous tips and a lot of sightings so over memorial day weekend there was a ton. Celebrity spotting and one of them was eighty. Tom and bow at tom. Tom which was the day after we had lunch together. And of course my taylor was there because if one of them's going out the other one's going they were all together and i feel like you guys left before though and say didn't you. Yeah because all swarmed well the in that little tidbits. They said that i was nice but shy. And that i was having to deal with schwartz. Who was waco wasted. Which i truly you said it was true. Yeah he was so he got so drunk drinking all day and then we went to tom. Tom and then you think he was taking more shots that he just hit a wall and into the rest like i looked at him and i was like we gotta go gotta go. Oh so then it said and that and bo and yet you were nice. Pushi- put wasted and bo was talking to a group or a few older women that was the exact wording and so my listeners or people followers we're sending to me like you're an older woman and i'm like jokes on you bench because i wasn't there was at host the hartford so basically they call taylor donahue an older woman. I mean i was seeing you make. There was people that were like stopping buyer table to say hi but none of them are like older women. We'll see this is what i was thinking. I was like. I was like first of all when i saw. This is me. This is a little look into the paranoia. That is my brain. When i saw i was like there's somebody i always do this. There's somebody who is one of my trolls and that was there and they said that to shade. That makes no sense. But i'd say you do not look like an older woman. Even at all so then starts he was like who are these older women you're hanging out with and he's like i don't even know what they're talking about how we solve the mystery. Where was the older woman. I have no idea because we were sitting. I got a bar like high-top table and the gives people would come say hello. We took some pictures with some people but like there was like it was like how lows how you doing did anybody. Hey girl hey yes she got she. Yeah i feel like if you're gonna hey girl. Hey was your yeah. They they said over some shots are. That's so nice. This year fans did well. I will say. I was one hundred girls i will say i was. I was foam out that. I didn't get to go to tom. Tom with the guys. However when i read that too ma post the satisfaction of being like wasn't made wasn't there couldn't be me impossibly felt so it is possible that in the moment that somebody who saw bite been a couple of people who are looked older that we were talking to. Okay i was. I was sat next to the whole time so okay. So whoever anonymously posted that's dumas. And i'm not blaming dumas post what they get. I want to say. I see your shade. Who's funny faulk. Who said that polite. Don't age on women that's cool. It's not also now. Teddy has a complex on. She's all do. I look like an older woman plenty. It wasn't about you. It wasn't about you lou. And last thing i wanna ask you before. I let you go you recently. My friend on instagram. I saw that you had lunch. With z way. What do i know. She was on the podcast. I remember like a while ago because we were talking about her. You are so excited to have her on and her show just came out on showtime for a minute now and what was the launch like It was awesome. Yeah so i had are my podcasts. Like last quick september. Yes so this is like pre lakers show on showtime and. She was still doing her instagram. Live show which is awesome and so great that that's kind of what the show on showtime came out of our from but she was so cool what they had are gone and she just coming out to la like hang out. We got beat up and sounds like yes east. Yeah she's yeah and she was everything she was so fun. She was so cool to top. Two we just we hit it off. We talked about. I talked about like ghosts and we talked about horoscopes. Talk about how much. I love like terro and and just like i just got my cards read. You've got to meet her. Her name is vanessa jefferson and she is liz. Oh sister why we talked about that. You're lying You you me and you. Yeah you and i talked about that. Yeah we did go out. There was that when you're breaking my hair. No we talked about this. I don't know. I can't remember which day we talked about this. Probably when i was weicker wasted actually it might have been but yeah we talk about this. But she's fabulous. Buy yes gas. I know. I want to get my car drive by her but no we had such a fun time and she's just like killing. It'd mike so excited for her. She's out here doing press for show and so she just squeezed me into her sensual. And we we had a little lunch and beverly hills you know it was just. It was so much fun jealous. Now thank god katie. i love you. Thank you for doing my podcast. Who the best year the best i miss you and i wish i wish when i know you're busy while you're out here but i wish i was able to come and crash. All your guys is hangs but girl literally dossier was like. Are we ever going to see you in our own home like we were downstairs working so much it was it was it got it got to a point. That was ridiculous so if you went over there you wouldn't have seen either didn't miss out onto that was. I'm glad to have too much crazy. Because like when i need it is going to be here. I'm like i'm going to really miss out on seeing you guys but do come to new york. Please play calm. I know i will. I mean hopefully really soon. I mean i missed new york so so so much. So you've know. When i get out there i'm going to be hitting you up. Stay with us. If you like era beds. I wanted definitely come to your place. So that's percent will host unit fabulous dinner party by me. I want them on your roof. I wanna get drunk and your roof. I'll make you break my hair per huge. Are you also guys just quick. Don't forget katie. Also has a podcast here dear media you're gonna love me check it out. It's fantastic and also speaking to your media and other podcasts. Don't forget literally tonight. June tenth nine pm eastern six pm west. Yes that's correct. Not skinny but not fat and i are going to be doing a virtual live show. We're physically going to be together. So we literally became friends over the pandemic. I saw you and saucy following her and liking her stuff. No joke and i. When i was like this girl's hilarious. She so great. And i was trying to get like new people that i never have before on so taylor so i went to the dmz to reach out to her and the thing happened. That feels like the worst thing in the world realized we had met and we had before she had deemed me and i had never in a year and so i started to panic anyway. We're going to go to the whole story. Tonight of like the first time we met she thought i was a bitch. She is correct. And and then how like we went from that to actually becoming really good friends over the pandemic. But i have to credit because you guys were all over her page and i was like okay. She i like her and of course my friends like fuck with her so i wanna fuck with her and then we started fuxin and it was fantastic and now we're in love so she so great we're doing a live together but this is the first time ever seen each other in person since we became friends. We've only met what other time that not. That doesn't count. So this is all my god how i can't i gotta watch this. It's like our first date. So you guys. If you there's still time to get tickets also people have asked if they can access it on demand. The answer is yes We talked to looped and they made sure they're gonna they're going to figure it out for y'all i think will be available if not right after like with an hour or so. So you guys. If you can't watch it live you can still get tickets and watch it after the fact on manned there's meet and greets those are limited and i'm not sure by the time this airs if they'll be sold out yet so you can go check it out but i'm not sure about the numbers but tickets are still available. I mean you can't sell a show out of a virtual show so but you can miss a time like frame so go get your tickets right now skillet dink and you can just click lincoln bio in online at taylor's rucker and then also at not screaming out fat and yeah. It's going to be a viable timer to drink and play games. I'm going to find out if i'm shugi or not. It's going to be whole thing. And i think i am pretty sure we all are a little chook. I'm a tube. Why don't even know what that means. Will you're going to find out. Of course guys follow katie on the graham. I never know how to say instagram at music kills kate. I mean literally. I look at it constantly. How i can't remember bows either the good the bad the bogie. I always thought it up at music kills kate. I know no one understands why it's okay deal with it. I i know the origin okay. Good because you love to sing now. I do like seeking. But because i used to have a music blog and that's when i created the handle and i just never bothered to change it same thing. That's what i meant. That's what i said okay. Don't make me rage tax too so much. Thank you so much for being here. I love you to you guys. That's it for us. As we have great make sure to rate review and subscribe to. The podcast is such a huge thing for me. It's like tipping me. Virtually so please please please. If you like me go ahead and do it if you hate me also go ahead and do it because engagement is every thing. That's it guys back next week with another fantastic podcast until then by girl by.

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Nathan Mannion - Migration, Family and Stories at EPIC: The Irish Emigration Museum.

The Plastic Podcasts

56:50 min | 10 months ago

Nathan Mannion - Migration, Family and Stories at EPIC: The Irish Emigration Museum.

"How you doing. I'm doug danny and you're listening to the plastic podcasts tales of the irish diaspora where taking a cultural turn of the plastic. Podcasts today epic. The irish emigration museum stands proudly on customhouse key in dublin and tells the story of irish migration throughout the ages. Founded by neville is still twenty. Sixteen it's been visited by over three quarters of a million people in that time and has won the award of europe's leading tourist attraction for an unprecedented two years running in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty at the world. Travel awards nathan manion is senior curator and clearly covert has affected his line of work as well as everyone else's so the first question i need to ask him is how you doing. I'm doing well. Thanks to be called here today in dublin bought over or quite upbeat and quite happy to have the doors museum opened again when we're talking it's the The ninth of december. So you opened win. So we reopened on the first and How's the response to just getting back into museums all. I think it's been fantastic. I think a lot of people have felt that little bit of an absence in their lives. The desperate to go on attend onsite events to face to face to engage with the exhibitions and the content that we have downstairs. It was the first day of from since then. It's really start to grow. So we're very pleased at the minute for those of our listeners. Who've been unfortunate enough not to visit epic how would you. How would you describe it to somebody. Yeah so is our immigration museum the first and only one in the country it opens just over four years ago in may two thousand sixteen so really what it does is it tells the stories of the ten million people that are dr lund's from the sixth century to the present day and the seventy million strong our staff asper on the world's those buyers dissents that live all across the world so it looks us the left are the means by which they left. It looks at why the push and pull factors that caused so many people to leave the still island and the north atlantic It looks at the influence that they've had in a whole range of different areas and fields from sports science to acting storytelling and music and then it looks at modern connections. So how do we connect communiques from ireland with that. They asked prep. How is that. The aspirin turn changed how we perceive ireland. Her irishness and wasp. Does it mean moving into the future. What was the impetus behind founding. Yes it's actually quite an interesting story and it takes us all the way back to the debts of the session in teen harland's Times we're quite bleak. Money was even scarcer. The government had the idea that if wanted to organize an annual celebration called the gathering may be familiar with they basically invite everybody of our son sestri that they could track down to a big reverse genealogy project to come to arlon throughout the year For celebration onto reconnect with villages towns. All over the country and that they could trace some of their ancestors back to. It was a great success and from that really started to see. Thus the irish aspe- there was a real longing for connection with ardent on the place within ardent had actually engage with their history and their heritage from that as well as the points. That's first minister state with the aspca started put together. I'd for policy at the proper foreign affairs which had never done before starting to take desperate seriously. I one the ideas that they saw that was that should have a cultural sites winning. Arden's where they could come. You know lots of different things went on. They had no money to perform to the proposal. It was a great one. The government would recognize a successful tender for designation of arden's officials the desperate center or cultural center. Lots of different bids came in from all over the islands but it would little funding available. They actually ended up scrapping scheme. Which was which is quite disappointing. But one of the ones that went through was was what would later become epic By philanthropist called netherlands dale so never would be the founder of epic an irish emigrant himself from county downey spent most of his life living all over the world. I think at one hundred and fifty one countries last counts and the reason for that is because he became chairman. Ceo coca cola for a few years so it involved quite a bit travel as you can imagine But never never stepped up and put his own money in invested in epic spent nearly four over fifteen million euros out of his own pocket to create the museum. Which is an offer prophet. So there thursday. Any dividends being paid out or any shares or anything like that on the money that may museum makes goes back into it and then we had the good fortune to open in two thousand sixteen. So since then We've been welcoming people through the doors A now maurice also online and when did you get involved so actually when. I went in a couple of weeks before epic officially opened so when i walked in the first thing i had to do with stick on a high vis jacket and hat and walk through as the exhibitions were being fitted out and designed so that was quite fun. I'm at a great benefit to me now. Later on having Orchestrated the museum to stay home. Everything works to see the the concepts behind it unto takeover from the original design team and the academic panel that create most of the contents museum so Having enhanced an amended a lot of content. Since under my own ship it was. I think really important to be there at the beginning. And it's unusual thing in many ways isn't it because most museums Will will will will concentrate on. What's come into a country If you look at the national museum of natural history museums and so forth that they're very much a celebration of what the will the country's accumulated an yet with with epoch. It's it's in the opposite direction in many ways. Yes so as. I said epic as the irish immigration museum or our focuses primarily on departure from ireland's and experiences fires people and their descendants around the world that said we do take a broader view of migration as well as serve the timeless movement of people around the world sort of a global a global phenomena. We do look inward migration into ireland. Now that wasn't initially part of the design of the museum but the last couple of years at hudson something we've been taking into account more and more and more also member of the global migration museums network so this is a body of museums all over the world that look at immigration emigration look at both and all sorts of different things from fifty different countries at the moment so yes it is a little bit different. We're not we're not unique. In that sense there are number of remigration museums around europe and the world so basically germany There's one there's another one in one in ireland at the moment as well and in the uk there are there are there is a migration ziamin as well on both they look at immigration. And it's totally support for the outward immigration of people To the islands. You've got some twenty rooms. They're yes there's twenty galleries in the long term exhibitions at the museum. At the moment and then we would have to create a two and a half embry exhibition as well. It's funny who hasn't been epic. It's even architecturally. It's quite interesting space. It's a it's an old bonded warehouse. it's over two hundred years old and the hearts docklands and the museum is nearly entirely based in the vaults on so they're all wine and whisky vaults time upstairs was for dry goods like tea and tobacco and so within the very atmospheric vaults of the building is the twenty galleries that makeup epic. And you've also got a genealogy aspect to yes so one of the last thing just epic when you come. True is the maurice exhibition that we installed power name which tracks and irish surnames around the world. So visitors bought to the museum and to our website can come on they can last. No-one emigrants In their family that left arden surname their detailed the year the left. If they're aware of it where they went to and then the discerning will will appear on an exhibition downstairs It's it's alive exhibition. It's always being updated so it lost statistics like you're the seventeenth finnigan to come from poland in the us for example and so on and it creates a kind of word cowed the lower. Sure the name. The more people of heritage that that ventured into name and then upstairs in the museum at the back of our if store is our is the center. So it's our onsite genealogy partners and they will provide site consultations for people who want to further Logical research you can come in and on a level so you can walk in the door. You might anything new granny's name they'll take it from there or you might be. You might be fair to fire along the process and you may have hit a brick wall somewhere and you're trying to find out fourth or fifth generation on saturday. You just can't quite pin down and they'll help you out there. Yeah and they've been involved in high profile genealogy projects over the years as well. I think they tracked. Tom cruise ancestry back to the twelfth century to the normans artists fees. So they didn't make another film with no but the title. He comes from aristocratic lineage. And the title. That is ancestors held in wexford. Was the barons of hollywood. You couldn't make it really. I'd also Joe biden. I believe yes the more recently. They've been involved in the irish on trees for present barrack obama and more recently than President-elect joe biden. He twenty visited arlanda twenty sixteen as part of an official state visit. They presented the his family lineage. Anna seventy tree to him at the bastardize residents in phoenix park on His entire extended family actually present so there was quite a number of them there and then let alone where they privileged enough to to present. It's time you treat him. They were also taken. Basically as part of the entrance for three days two counties mayo and companies loud where his roots had lie so the blue family in balata and county mayo and then to the To county up near carlingford as well where. The founding inside of probably originates bar jfk. He's the he's the only the second irish catholic. Us presidents to be elected so it is quite special. I think he was actually. I think he commented on being being after rooster shared with him. He's waited his whole life for this. So you can see the kinda the importance. That is a direct quote. I think from for this to have his irish on each pre sean to him in august. His roger wow wow. Thinking of the genealogy project has been an upswing in enquiries from fr- from the the british diaspora leave the arshi aspirin britain rather Since the brexit yes. So i i would say definitely. That's the case and we found even before museum those for a few for a period beginning in march earlier this year we had a lot of visitors from the uk. It's one of the biggest groups of his museum as well. People come from britain. We've found the genealogy center Had noticed well. Big uptick in inquiries people looking to find the irish roots for to verify the grandparents verify. Great grandparents and further afield Which may be related to. Brexit could be us. They're looking for irish passports. They can remain you citizen But i think it was more than that as well. A lot of them were also looking to potentially make lives in ireland. They were looking at moving here as well and they were trying to to kind of find where where the family lay in where it should be kind of moving to a big big decision for anybody but we've also also been quite popular because even though border south in the center of closed they've been doing online consultations. Now instead so people have been booking in chatting with one the genealogists over zoom or whatever it might be and i think a lot of people have taken that as a project as well during lockdown putting off the family tree for a while. I think you know you're stuck at home. Nothing but conversations prickly to things like christmas as well. It's lovely gifts to be able to present a older family members and just to get that information down on paper. Because i think a lot of people put it off you know and then next thing. You know that you're the oldest member of the family and all that kind of like familiar memory is gone so is quite important. But there's a lot of problems on their own and people trying to find their their their roots in ireland because of ceo fires in dublin. An an an and things like that. You know the the the records as early completely completely available all day. Yeah so it's one of the one at the big moments in suppose in any way. The irish record on the biggest absences is the during the civil war. The forecourts which held records administrative records from and going back as far as the twelfth century were destroyed only mere fragments of them on since a of genealogists and historians have tried to piece together Part of what was there from copies that were made elsewhere stored stored in other parts of the world Even recently they started to scan somebody like burnt pieces of paper that basically descended on golden after it was bombed rained. Centuries records some of them which were locally saved and they've started to try. Scanned digitized and piece them back together. So there's little bits information still coming out even today but one of the great things as well as places like you're shopping center and elsewhere have done a lot of work digitize existing records church records and that you'll baptisms marriages debts and so on census records give you a little bit of idea Land valuation taxes. Wills everything that you could truly imagine. They've been trying to gather these from organizations like the Harland the church farland's going to corporate record records in the uk and in the united states and trying to piece together these stories. And that's the kind of bedrock for a love family history. So what does that work really wouldn't have happened. You're listening to the plastic podcasts. We all come from somewhere else. Follow us on facebook twitter or instagram from the institutional to the personal having talked about the founding of epic with nathan manion. I wanted to know more about his own family background. I must admit. I got more than i was expecting. Yes so i suppose like many people on my father's side my parent- my grandparents would have left. Orlands as emigrants. They were quite young themselves. Grandfather was originally from connemara. And you couldn't guess more remorse part of the oils to be honest and having visited money. Times it it's a little an insulin shots out into the atlantic sides There's one road heading down to apparently everyone else on that. Little peninsula is rates me in some way. So that was that was quite nice to see And then my grandmother's county carlos. So she's just like carla town and they both emigrated to britain When quite young the ages of about seventeen and sixteen years of age they didn't know each other and they mess while a grandfather was working in construction. He was an irish navy on point. My grandmother would have been working with the anti chances. Are they met near nodding a minute or social so it doesn't really get any more stereotypical but they hit it off and As a result than my father was born in britain He they would have returned to our dan when he was two years old They've wealth of stories of time over there as well. They really enjoyed it. And i was like money. It was a tough decision to make if they wanted to come home but they wanted the support of the founding networks to especially to help with as as the children were coming along as well so their parents and grandparents decided move back and dave lifting county carlow ever since particular mcgrath. Some wonderful stories of a sign there and he's eighty now and he was saying this in the in. I the very early nineteen sixties. While he was working there he arrived off the ferry. Having never left galway really got the train over to dublin. Took the ferry across to britain and started working in construction because he had a cousin who was already over there He didn't speak any english when he arrived coming from the gaeltacht in connemara so he had to learn as you went he used to oppose lead was he was quite a devout catholic as well so he used to go to mass but he would end up going to polish mass instead because he said he could pick up a couple more words there than code from from the english alternative to klay funny He used to go to confession then once a week with the polish priests but neither of them had a clue what they were saying to each other so they enter the motions. He said it was fantastic. Is like you could say whatever you want and you still got solved. It didn't matter. Nobody was aware of it so he loves He was digging a trench. Think as part of roadworks of like nodding him at one point another workman stacked on his boost. Start giving out to him and the two of them starts kind of squaring off started fighting. Turn other children the trench until they realize like a few minutes in that they were shouting at each other and irish. Wolfman connemara turned. It was actually causing. I hadn't seen in twenty years so they ended up going home. He brought home for dinner for two nights. So you said you back one day and the two of them are sitting in the kitchen so you couldn't make it up really well the difference maybe between soggy going out and coming back. Was it really not that. Big a deal yes. There was no was a big decision for them to make as well going out as well just just even getting the money to go in the first base in to get saddam you know you really related community support network extended family whatever you could manage to get a scaled to to be able to train. Somebody grandmother would have trained and goldman initially before she was able to to move to and they wouldn't take you without either dot recommendation from from a peer group peer and orlands or a kind of a family tie abroad slightly different. When you're working in construction because it was really you know you might get a stars and then it was okay to prove yourself so that might grounded. Maybe he had a little bit of an easier time. There the also story that one of the reasons people even if you were just after arriving what you do is you. Go on your boots. Because if the guy's pulled up to pick workers for the day and this all you'd nice clean shiny boots. They didn't think you were worked on anything. So get you could be twenty guys waiting there in the only one seven so you try to make yourself look like a veteran. This is a quite a quite an interesting thing. Yeah but then. Moving back was a big decision because now they've kind of built a life for themselves. Admit that mary's They were restarting the family. They were they had a house. They bought a house and nodding as well so they were deciding. No okay well do we. If we we need it's now or never we need to decide overstaying or are we going and it was really a visit from my grandmother's motor and that convinced them to return to ireland ceased to basically. Do you want to bring up all your children here Or do you want to come home. And you know you'll have help from from everybody and it was the support network. I think that really won them over. In the end it was getting back and getting help with the children. And getting you know having someone to rely on. And that's what brought them back and they were given the choice that they want to go back to. Galway connemara didn't want to go to carlow carlow because granny decided that there was no way in hell. She was living in connemara. Saddam ground is the eldest son so he was due to inherit a little fire twenty or thirty acres but she said yeah it's twenty twenty acres of which like twenty five is just rock so she wasn't going to be a a farmer's wife and camera and that's that's so they've been in karnal now ever since they've been there been fifty years now grew. What about your parents yes. So my my dad then. Obviously he grew up in carlow. And that's all my father's side then are basically on all his siblings. Dan he would have been in britain with the rest of them would have been born in arlington cardinal. And then my motorcycle from kenny. So not only down the road in irish terms. You know half an hour thirty five minutes away And they match because my dad's ended up joining the army when he was quite young. Became a join the irish army. He served with the peacekeepers in lebanon for a couple of years as well on the barracks is based in kilkenny james stevens. There isn't any in carl. So they met on a house in in kenny. Wireless soldiers my mom at the time was a hairdresser so it was a it was Quite cool to to go out with the soldiers on a night out as well as so. They're all quite young eighteen or nineteen at that time And my motorcycle. Plenty of demand moving to britain as well. Actually my great grandmother was from london. She was a sharp so she ended up She was the only child of it was the head groomsmen to a neighbor of the queen. Mother which is quite interesting. So look for the horses basically And he had one daughter and she wentz completely so he would have involved with the aristocracy. She went against the grain and she ended up marrying a member of the ira at the time. Arden so the kind of movement the or of independence and at the time in the nineteen twenties so who was from company awfully so she moved ended up moving to art and marrying him completely kind of breaking with her father who did come rounds in later years. He remarried as well. Her mother had died so he would visit them once or twice a year and he'd come over and eventually they kind of made peace. I gave it a few years. They made peace was quite a clash. He was a little bit of a cultural shock right the slightly slightly well to do english english kind of family marrying into a very very very republican irish nationalists and also the around the other the way as well a republican family taking on somebody who is obviously very acted to the english establishment while they founded like the basically they were fell in love. It's that story. She they had family in ireland and migrate. Granny would have come over and visited them for the summer every now and then to get out of london and it was there to janet of meeting My great-grandfather Obviously definitely a forbidden romance plus When it came to make your break she decided that she prefers to stay with him and make her life and orlands than to go back so yeah and as a very turbulent time as you can imagine we with with the war of independence just stuff branding and the the civil war that followed he ended up in the army and after the war he came an officer with the with the retreat state army and santa ended up basically any which is how they ended up being being brought down in the end as well. This brings to mind particularly suits emigration on the on the on the history between the between between britain and so forth an awful lot members of the of the astra particularly over the goals in the seventies and eighties when When the boeing campaign on the mainland as they call it was it was at its full height would who had distinct distinct problems in like. In just like the other is like claiming their irish roots or own deeds phoenix. They fit into the country's the going across state. Yes certainly certainly an issue and you know not that things have improved since then boss was The profiling people just based on their accents at the time in britain. But i think that's sort of like hyphenated identity as well as something that's still very essential to irishness here in an inordinate. Orlands have won. The series featured museum is of an carey so she would have been honest to life today. An irish emigrant from belfast to ended up moving to canada at the height of the troubles because she had basically recently married as well and then she had found out us. Neighborhoods burst into the door. Saying that Amount of the same name as her husband had been killed She assumed it was him. And they were out later to find out locally locally for her but not for the others. It wasn't her husband's it was. It was another man with the same name who had killed but she decided that it was just too difficult to place to bring up their children as well when they were starting to family support. Them left belfast and move to canada brought up their family. Their husband passed away a couple of years ago but she. Her story is one of three hundred and thirty netter told within the museum so the idea you know one of the things that people forget is whether the troubles were centralized arden's and duke as well and they also had a global impact so lots of people i think. Thousands thousands people left northern ireland during the troubles as well The whole peaceful life somewhere else should they would have settled in. Toronto became involved with the with. the canadian. Hockey has sports so it shows you how things can change the children really into hockey. One of them worked at irish bar. So they you know. They're irish but they also have. They consider korea canadians and like nuance changes. That came about as a result of these type of immigration is some kind of understudied Not as well known. I think you're listening to the plastic podcasts tales of the irish the aspirin. If you're new to the plastic podcasts. Or even if you're not and you haven't got around to it. Why not subscribe simply go to the home page at. Www dot plastic podcasts dot com. Scroll to the bottom and place your email address in the space provided one complementary clicked later. And you'll be getting details of each fresh podcast plus a collection of personal thoughts on the interview from yours. Truly what more could you possibly want for free. We'll be back with nathan manion in a moment but first it's time for the plastic pedestal. While i ask one of my interviewees raise up a member of the diaspora of personal or cultural significance to them this week. Rose marie edessa with a particular favorite edna. O'brien cheese on sees the one. Because i i remember. Hers was a book that was absolutely forbidden in the institutions and one of the girls in this industrial school hands on this book and this book went around the houses case of hundred girls. Read this book and it was absolutely forbidden. The nuns eventually founded in a ritual. Burning of the book What i loved about her wads them the honesty that she showed that books you know she she wrote about local girls absolutely clueless the by anything to do with and absolute identified with that so there was one frank mccord would be another the authors of contra girls absolutely stayed in my mind forty years later. I don't think i have found an another person. That i would say i die to meet you. I definitely rosarito that out if you want to him more of rosemary's interview and frankly you'd be a fool not to simply go to the episodes page at. Www dot plastic podcasts dot com where you can find the archive of not just her but of all of our interviewees or indeed. You can find them on amazon apple podcasts. All spotify now. Back to nathan manion and i ask him about what. A museum like epic offers to the present and indeed the future. We also get to talk some favorite stories in the last few years. The idea of what is the museum. And how should watch the museum to represent. The people has changed loss and over the last couple of years within the museum. Unity is the largest group of museum. Practitioners in the world is called the international council of museums. They have a branch in every country in the world. The part of the united nations as while under unesco and i'd be involved with the with the arlington. Here they've been trying to grapple with what does it mean. What is the museum. they've been trying to redefine. What museum is so every periodically may be ten or fifteen years. They tried to come up with a new definition of museums are It's been quite contentious for the last couple years. There's been a lot of disagreement. It was supposed to be decided last year. A new definition was before volts. Every two years the entire global body meets the man. Kyoto in japan last year. They're meant to adopt it. Didn't pass so they've going back to the drawing board there so really shows you like twenty thousand museum practitioners in the screw trying to get a consensus on what a museum actually is. There should do is an easy. It changes depending on where you are in the world community How they relate you what you perceive your mission to be swatted. It might be You know if it's just simple as addiction definition or a space thus hosts exhibitions preserves and collects safeguards for the future or is one that needs to you know actively engaged in the spread of democracy. It needs to you know co-produce with those communities dictate to them and that's needs to go beyond the walls of the physical institution and do much more than just be a space so it's still ongoing but it's been it's been fascinating following it all and you mentioned that You have had a kind of digital presence particularly in the last six months or so because of because of Because of covid and so has not changed the way that museums disease than has as does that definition. Then come under even on the yet another foams because now we're looking at physical space necessarily absolutely. That's been one of the most interesting things in our own circumstances we've been Lockdowns now at this stage the first began in march We're open then briefly for a few weeks there in the summer and then we closed again until last week and so we had to move a lot of our activity online which we were doing a little bit of already but we know like everybody else. We had to speed it up. Get online start. Giving lectures and zoom. Starting children's workshops online we start to produce and make all of our education pacts available for download. We started creating a museum at home hub. We started some story collecting projects as well. And that's been brilliant because we got huge engagement And still have a frost in particular on like i guess a lot of other museums the value of being online has been We've been able to drag engage with the diaspora communities around the world. Who couldn't really walk through the doors and attend a lecturer in our necks. Space museum but could definitely take part something. That's open zoom so we've seen an average lecture might have forty fifty people. The ones that we've online have been hundreds. You know we had three or four hundred and the forest of a new series launched on the hidden histories of irish abroad. Say it strong since then. So we've had people from all over the world join in. We've partnered with groups and said africa groups in north america and the time difference has actually been relatively minimal. we thought that might have an impact. It didn't really and they've been coming and they've been really happy that they've been able to so it's something we'll keep doing. We're not going to stop even when the with the doors reopened now and the ability to hold smaller onsite lectures. we're going to keep streaming them making them available on the recording instead of those all nine on our youtube channel as well. So it's grace one of our most popular series at the minute is the hidden history. The irish abroad so they look kinda lesser well known stories of irish communities outside of ireland. So the i was on the irish into ussr so it looked as irish immigrants living in the soviet union amid throughout the twentieth century their involvements in in the stace their evolvement in understandings of irishness in in the soviet union at the time that was immensely popular we've looked at the end and the black atlantic was her second talk so it looks as parallels between movements in ireland for independence on civil rights in in in north america looked out the all all the legacy of transatlantic slavery as well. It looked at the morrison's a mixed race communities in north america. So we did that. In partnership wait aiden. Who's just the african american irish asper. So groups of of African american irish people that live north america lesser well known part of our astra. I'm interesting statistic that they shared with a string. That's during the talk was one intrigue. African americans have irish ancestry now. Most that's a very dark story Going back to plantations slave owners Potentially force relationships boss it's something that they are grappling with today and they're trying to connect a lot of that community with their connections to ireland's so it's an area a lotta work has been put into And hopefully we will have a forthcoming exhibition. Twenty twenty two which will look at that more. That was a very popular talk An an area that is less well studied than should be so that was very popular or next one will be on the irish behind bars So sitting irish people incarcerated around the world. Mainly looking at those who are who are civil. Protesters are activists that have have been locked up over centuries and opt the recent day as well will be bringing the star of our twenty twenty one program will cut irish jewish and irish jaspers in the pilots and links between them and we're looking at is travelers abroad as well. So the irish community mainly in the united states in places like georgia but also in the uk and swear and then we're going to look contemporary migration so the impact of immigration to our as well and newer between these. And how has in turn influenced are desperate An policies un's communities in and so it's quite diverse. It's it's very popular program. And i go online to our website. Anybody who wants to take locates. It said xecute akam and it'll outline most of the upcoming talk so one of the things that The trump t- i went around Epic was the enthusiasm of Of the stuff that we're looking at the the world war two section and and the gentleman whose name i forget Just all about oh. Have you heard this story. This story and this story i was we we. We started talking about a spitfire. Patio was yes a lot of people they want to speak to. They want the human connection. They wanna talk to somebody that works. So that's why to stop in every move around. They can add more depth to stories as well so as you mentioned that space is limited. You cannot. I've given a been given onset set. Strict word counts for each entry that we can. We can work with Just to keep me in line as well in many ways. They don't have a whole story there but every people wanna know more so like like your experience where you engage with the stories before your body and suffered air to give you more information to direct to new resources as well if you wanna find a book on the topic you want to read some of the archival material whatever it might be share their own stories as well you know. They have thrown favorites. Go trump museum. Every staff member kind of find feels drawn to different parts of the exhibition. Or maybe it links to their own experience. That's always been really popular on the feedback that we guests at the end of the museum. One of the sections is about the staff and it's universally universally praised so all the soft truck museum in the shop now than i've already introduced the notion of spitfire pilots. Roses probably only rice apt to them to tell the story. Yes so oh. I think i'm not surprised that you were drawn to that one it is fascinating Nosso spitfire potty would have been within an alias is his brand new can and he was Born right mind county dublin in nineteen twenty. His family Moved to to britain when he was quite young as well he. He attended school there but he was fascinated with with and with potential. Potentially being a pilot from a young age obviously at that time you know. It's only twenty years since the first airplane took off and so it's still it was still relatively new new invention fodder didn't want him to be a pilot. He encouraged him to become an accountant. you tried it for little finished. School aided us absolutely hated it so he decided to try and follow his dream and become a pilot he at the age of seventeen. He took a begun a four year course train as a pilot by all intensive purposes all the reports of he was terrible he was a. He was an atrocious atrocious pilots number of different accidents when he was trying to to take off and when he's written exams in in an advanced scotland he scored very poorly and to be honest. Has the second world war broken out. He probably wouldn't have been accepted into the royal air force at all. So that just shows if you persevere and you try hard and often right circumstances come along maybe chief your dream. He racked up over a hundred hours flight. Time as well But actually once he once he took to the skies during what was very tense. Time for anybody. Living in britain he actually became. It became very obvious that he was a natural so he he was a natural pilots more so than that he was also kind of natural. Natural leader He aimed them he. He earns the moniker spitfire potty. Because he used to of the he was from ireland's pretty used to paints a Jam rock on the tail end of his cockpit of a spitfire of a supermarine spitfire and his unit were known as flying shamrocks so he actually rose through the ranks as well as brief career by nineteen forty two. He had earned the rank wing commander. Which would be the equivalent of a lieutenant colonel in the in the armed forces the youngest. Raf wing commander in their history still to this day at twenty one years of age which really could only take only happen during during a global crisis like the second world war sadly he was shot down as well only a month after this promotion in coming back from saudi over france he. His plane was damaged in the attempt to do a kind of a crash landing in english channel which single the plan and he was day. I'm bus to stay as well at the time. He was considered quite hero. In britain appears regularly albridge papers he received awards at booking policy. Recedes distinguished flying cross to to bars that distinguished service. Orders while and Was the kind of propaganda icon in a way because they wanted to show this. Anybody could could get behind the war effort and achieve great things you needed to achieve. I think five aerial aerial kills to be given the moniker of areas. And i think he depending on the source you refer to. He has twenty confirmed. Kills off to turkey too depending on the sources for probably so his career as a as as a pilot and fighter pilots during. Your time is very impressive. Obviously a senior curator. You're you're kind of like a father with three hundred. Thirty children I suppose it's wrong to have favorites but inevitably you. May well have some. If you just visit to the to the to the museum will do you think would be the standout for you or i think it varies really a person taste dictates that so much but there are some remarkable stories that a lot of people are generally drawn to One that i always quite interesting Just because it's a little. Quirky is the story of margaret eager. So she was from limerick but she was ninety two. The last czar of russia in the last children so his four daughters granddaughters of russia. She was english shooter at the russian court for six years. She taught them. She's awesome english and they've been actually remains quite close even after she left. She ended up opening boarding house in england. She used to correspond with them by letters quite a lot and she wrote a book about time there but one of the things that people really drawn to the fact. There's when they spoke english. They spoke with limerick accents which you can imagine as the senior oil family russia applause desire and his wife so they ended up having to fly somebody in from england. Who improper queen's english before for a period there get imagine the the royals of russia's speaking with olympic twain would have been quite something. The romanoff's yes. Yeah most perhaps your listening to the plastic podcasts. We all come from somewhere else. That's more than just a hashtag. It's a philosophy one of the things that struck me most as part of my visit to epic with its layout and design in particular a series of wolves with a selection of sergeant pedestal montages of the diaspora one face the particularly caught. My eye was a stern looking. Amen andrews it was a display. I could get lost in for days. And so in this last section of my interview with nathan manion. We stopped by talking about that. Then frankly we move onto all sorts. The gallery thinking obviously influence gallery. It's the beginning of the of the section that look at kind of irish impact around the world and that particular space kinda shows conic moments brought irish people abroad and at home closer together. So you know. Where were you when on the italian ninety. It's the first eurovision win on one side and the other. It's it's you know things like ira bombings and you know the nine eleven attacks so good on the bad but the space that you're thinking of that collage. It shows a good number of the people that are featured in the museum kind of interspersed among the crowd and the idea is that each of them is holding or or next to something. That's linked to the story in some way and little bit humorous in most cases. Sodium Jfk's having a cup of tea in a little share because when he came tea with his relations from wexford You know wba is sitting there holding poultry dummies The pure is renowned architect to. Who's the engineer at. The sydney opera house is holding the blueprints there. And that kind of thing. But it's kind of can you spot and how many names and faces can you recognize but it definitely does connect there is something there for all generations visitors unlike game andrews that people appreciate it you know and anyone the see that will be able to find her story elsewhere in the museum as well so the idea is to kind of encourage you to look a little further. I'm little bit deeper. One one of my favorites from that sort of eras. While is an dave allen. I think he's richard in our comedy section among many others who made their made their name and britain likes to darrow breen But i think allen is is fantastic even today. Some of his some was closed interviews about what it means to be. Irish broad are still relevant. still quite telling and You know i think him likes of amen. Andrews really start to kind of change. How irishness was td britain in money ways when you see it on. Tv wargin obviously went on to do that himself. Then later on you find if the now even today people like graham norton as well like arlen has a lot to kind of tv show hosts late night tv and swan in the uk and they definitely have an impact on how irishness and what it means to be. Irish is perceived and they have a form of voice thus know groups. Don't so i think even today that that's still quite strong. There's something that you you mentioned there that That was the that Stuck out and that was that you talk about. There's wall that is nine eleven and and ira bombings us off with mr trying to look at is a dhaka side to the the ashtray. History as well and so on. I mean as we talk about five patty this olsen the story of william joyce lord hall hall who. I ended up broadcasting radio propaganda for not season and so on and it was Is it something that you try and steer away from. You do have to acknowledge it. What what was the feeding a balanced here when it comes to is having to deal with some of the some of the stories on necessarily the most positive that you can't have no i think it's it's important acknowledged both sides because you know the experience isn't universally positive Universally negative we would lean slight slightly positive Within the exhibition we likely people in a high but throughout the rest of the museum. Yeah there are quite dark stories. You know things like the modern baby homes in orland. Magni laundries The prosecution of members of the community open till one thousand nine hundred eighty s. It was a criminal act. Ninety four and these royal causes from people who read are voluntary or involuntarily taken from martin's and sent abroad And they're important parts of our history as well and then similarly ours people who have gone abroad Not all of them were were were saying said quite a number of senators as well need acknowledged that so the we're irish people involved criminally around the world's You know some polarizing figures as well you know of jacob era has sent sestri as well and that people come in one way or the on his legacy. I'm ned kelly as well. Obviously he's a romantic bush ranger figure in australian folklore at this stage but for many people also just too dangerous. Dangerous thief robber As well and joyce who's again is actually very nardin. Today's still buried in galway in Had the opportunity. When i did my undergrad and go in the kids gravest solaire You can go and see us and everything. How their legacy is handled is quite important. And i think that's one of the things that museums do is that they create a platform and a space for conversations like we. We aren't on the tour of source on on every aspect of the past. But what we do is we want to start those conversations to be a space where these stories can be shared an interpretive and then people can come and they can engage with them and make up their own minds. And i think that's really important especially today where you can find difficult the find that kind of almost a safe space to have these conversations because they are quite polarizing generally and i find that true bringing to light stories that maybe are less well known i like the impact of involvement in the transatlantic slave trade oriental difficult legacies round colonial past that we have today. Museums are all grappling with these issues. All over the world but they need to dunedin nauseam. They need engagement. I need to listen to the people whose voices are being raised. So we when we're currently working on an exhibition that will focus on arden's lgbt diaspora on the world's and their experiences. I it's co produced. it's with the communities. You directly linked lincoln with them. All you'll you'll find the experts you talk to the people themselves whose explains you're trying to portray and you get their side of the story because for too long i think there was a sort of an authoritative driven curation of museums where you become a subject expert in a particular area and then you just create an exhibition based on your own research resources and that was it and it wasn't dawn it could be done about someone but never with them on think. Museums have been moving into that space. A lot more off the last decade or so. and it's really just becomes an you just. It's not offensive anymore. You have to work with people to tell their stories. And that's just the way it has to be that leads me neatly onto a the also sprung up there. Which is there other issues that the the the arise where say the mixed race Irish or or travelers within on themselves and feel that they're under represented and so on. Do you think that that museums have a part to play in in in that on absolutely Museums again are spaces. Where if you're nauseous or local museum. People consider you custodians of that local story that national story and you construct identity in what you choose to display in what you don't if people don't see themselves in an exhibition they don't feel part of that story and that's something that people recognize now. I mean it's been said for decades but it's something that people are starting to take seriously now under starting to engage like if arlen is a very different place today than it was a century ago and those stories that have come along since then need to be represented so if you're an immigrant airlines remember the travelling community and you've never seen your story on display in museum feel almost like a second class citizen in the sense so the there's been a lot of work and here at epic as well and they'll swear to make sure those stories are incorporates because they're part of our national story the part of gastric experienced whether you like it or not the pirates nate and And if they're not represented you're not really telling a complete story. It's it's the elimination of that kind of what are conscious or unconscious bias. I think museums really are striving to remedy. And then that becomes the platform for broader discussion in society as well because once people are aware of a story this are to start interpreted start engage with it starts to bring the conversation further. You say the auden's change. Do you think the sexual the diaspora as far as the consent of changed. Oh yeah most. Certainly i think in orlands has come a long way in the last couple of decades as as a country as i mentioned earlier one. The galleries at the museum is being redeveloped. At the moments launched six weeks time. And that's bringing in installation on contemporary migration. So it's looking at the nineteenth century. Experience of irish people brought true person stories and what that was like but it's just opposing it against contemporary migration from armed as well and actually won the and we're looking at of debris so obviously a nigerian irishwomen currently living in the uk so her story is is a little more nuance than how we connect twitter irishness so that the installation looks at things like the change in communication methods that we've had over that time period from connecticut right into the internet and smartphones from travel by sea on probably one journey to free return migration by air from anywhere in the world and then how we connect with irishness. So what does it mean to be irish and who who decides that and how is it interpreted in the world today. So is it people that connected irish culture is people that were born on. The island of ireland is people of irish parentage grandparentage Is it people who have no wires on says she whatsoever but huge effendi with what means irish. Maybe they went to school here. Maybe they did part of the year abroad or they're the only read irish literature. It's the kind of of ireland's of violence and and four hundred and so it's just it's it's changed quite a lot and it's called the department of foreign affairs of calling the affinity irish people who aren't from ireland's or haven't got a connection to our but love the place engage with all of our our music or literature visited frequently An immigrant stern as well and their interpretation for that means the irish. Because it's it's it's it's hyphenated identity in some senses people are like. We're much more diverse multicultural society than we were Even thirty years ago and it's time that ended notion of what it means to be irish if all its evolving here and the da aspirin as well for a long time are acknowledged aspect. Even though it's so much for us the remittances alone that were sent back for irish emigrants all over. The world kept the economy afloat for decades Just an economic perspective. And you know. I think i think it was. Larry who had mentioned us that there was. There was plenty of employment in art and those that left. Were giving up on the kind of national idea. that was more of a political stance because from an economic rally wasn't viable. But they as i said the now we now have administer state for the spread we have to ask for policies. We have desperate museum People are getting much more aware. That story and arnold is unique in that. It's the only country in western europe that has a smaller population today than it did at the middle of the nineteenth century s in the wake greenwich from but we have one of the largest aspirin in the world which is again partly due with us and how we lincoln you know if seventy to eighty million people is one percent of the world's population today that have an affinity for an island that has just about seven million people on it. So it's it's it's crazy. It's at least ten times the size of false computations today so i think it's if we don't acknowledge it. It's ridiculous one final question. Under normal circumstances. I i'd osma might view what does being a member of the diaspora. But although you've got your you go the extra background. Yeah born and raised in ireland so gonna also in a slightly different way which is over the course of the four years. You've been with epic. What does epic Submits a big question. I think it's a mental. It's meant quite a lot to me. Mostly because i can see the stories of people of my own family represented in the museum. But i also see the stories of of people that are not likely represented in the museum stories that i would never have come across. If i hadn't been involved with project or for hadn't worked here and the people that come through the doors as well because migration special because money museums dedicated to historical events things from the past but with migration it's old historic and contemporary. So anyone that walks into the door can share a story that may end up on display in the museum. That would be the case moving into the future as well as my gracious. Never gonna stop it's universal Entity and a place where that can be told where to stories can be. Displayed is is really important until epic open. It didn't exist We've just seen the overwhelming support and positively anyone who's come in about what we do and what we continue to into the future that i think without its. I'd be different person. Because i wouldn't met so many extraordinary people wouldn't have been able to engage in so many fun and interesting projects and i definitely am. I'd be a different person myself. So i could be could be a banker now. I'm glad my Story took a different route. But i think yeah the importance of of the globe late entity and and being able to share it with so many hundreds of thousands of people every year from all over the world is is phenomenal. I think it's something that's quite specialists in long overdue in ireland. You've been listening to the plastic podcasts. With me doug deny any am against the menu. Plus pedestal was raised by rosemary amazon. Music find us at. Www dot plastic podcasts dot com for emails and the plastic podcasts gmail.com alternatively you can follow us facebook twitter or instrument the plastic podcast this false it using public funding. Why audience council england.

ireland nathan manion britain dublin arden connemara doug danny irish emigration museum dr lund desperate center or cultural c netherlands dale Ceo coca cola national museum of natural his irish immigration museum joe biden barrack obama arlanda Anna seventy balata Arden
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