3 Episode results for "Archbishop Romero"
Being, Belonging, Beyond: Bringing the sacred to a turbulent world with Sue Philips of Sacred Design labs
"Hey people welcome to accidental goats to the podcast where we believe that another world is still possible and that together. We can make it happen. I'm scott your host. This place on the web where art meets activism politics. meets philosophy and science meet spirituality. All in the service of conscious evolution my guest this week is sue phillips of the sacred design lab. I listened to sue podcast probably around this time last year. And she's been on my list of people to invite to be a guest ever. Since then the sacred design love is a sole centered research and development lab devoted to understanding and designing spiritual wellbeing for the twenty first century. It translates ancient wisdom practices to help their partners developed products programs and experiences that groaned people's social and spiritual lives and they envision a world in which every person is connected to their inherent goodness known and loved in communities of care and bountifully giving their gifts towards beauty. Justice and wholeness and is that sounds remarkably like what accidental. God's is striving to do. Then i think that would be fair. Sue phillips herself says that she is relentlessly curious about liberating ancient wisdom to solve complex problems. She's passionate about inspiring spiritual flourishing designing for meaning making and witnessing the transformation that happens when people roam around in what matters most and i cannot think of a more interesting inspiring soulful flourishing way to spend an hour. So people at the podcast. Please do welcome. Sue phillips of the sacred design. Lab says phillips. Welcome to the accidental goals. Podcast thank you so much for getting up at wherever. Ungodly art is on your side of the atlantic. What time is it with you just now. It's a little after nine o'clock in the morning so as you see. It's not that early. it's not. It's not so bad. And how is life. What part of the states are you in to situate us before we do anything else. I'm in tacoma washington which is on the puget sound about thirty miles south of the city of seattle in beautiful green highly oxygenated fun filled or could dwelling landscape here on the water business. We're going to talk about your life and work. Which is the sacred design lab which is one of those things as i said shortly before we started recording. If i'd known you existed before. I started accidental. God's i think accident would not exist so i'm glad i didn't but it does sound a remarkable thing so just before we move into what the sacred design lab is an does and hopes to be. Tell us a little bit about sue phillips and how you came to be here in this place now what a potentially broad and beautiful question that is If i had to pick a few steps along the the the discernment pathway that led me to being on the opposite end of this. Microphone with you. I would named two or three steps. The first is probably on the grounds of the washington national cathedral. One of the largest gothic cathedrals in the world improbably on a hill overlooking capital city washington. Dc when i was a middle school student and eighth grader. Which here is about thirteen. Fourteen resolved and i was a student there when the cathedral was under construction allow It took about forty or fifty years to be built and on the campus of the cathedral were the sheds of the stone carvers literally making the final tenements and the baptism fonts and the gargoyles which the tyne raised some controversy. Because they've made gargoyles out of darth vader and some disney character and some real culturally relevant expressions of traditional themes of good and evil and suffering in tricksters and a playful modern at the time Interpretation of the the the life of people and the spiritual life that cathedral slow is manifest And to my young self. i found this to be absolutely captivating. The smell of the dust and the art the artistry of the sculptors and the absolute magnificence of full on flying buttress stained glass windowed cathedral literally in front of me So that that is absolutely one step on this path because it instilled in me not only on just the kinesthetic like embodied magnificence of interaction spirit. But also i was so curious. I hadn't having really wasn't religious in any traditional sense. My my family did not. We were sort of cultural like suburban white people christians but no more than not but the the human reach for whatever it was that was reached for in that magnificent place absolutely astonished and captivated me in a way i've never stopped being oriented toward sobbed captivation. So there's one stop. I could go on but i will very quickly say that That eventually led to divinity school right after university where i studied liberation theology and ethics and then went and did social justice work for ten years before entering congregational ministry and the ad -tarian universalist tradition. Which is a very progressive largely post christian faith in the united states and england actually in uk. I would love to know about that. Carry on with us Happy to happy to and so. That's probably the second stop mike. Congregational ministry ordained that tradition pass through denominational leadership and arrived at harvard. Divinity school where i taught on politics class about unitarian universalism. Because there's a lot of new students at harvard because absorb boston based a headquartered faith and so the deep history with with her school and i met the two people who are now. My colleagues were students. At the time casper kyle and ansi thurston my beloved cofounders of sacred design lab and our lives became intertwined there and we started this new chapter of exploring what it means to deliver ancient spiritual technologies into a bruised and hurting secular world. Yes okay thank you. That feels remarkably coherence and succinct. For what is covering quite a long time so just taking a couple of steps back. Tell me a little bit more about liberation theology. It's one of those things that i have heard of think i've ever spoken to anyone who has studied it in depth while i will do my very best to do justice to this worldwide combination of grassroots religious expression. Scholarly pursuit alignment with the poor out of very much of the christian tradition originating in latin america with a latin american liberation. Theologians like we stop a good. Cheer us in jon sobrino and other jesuits mostly men religious priests. They call them in the catholic church mostly. There hasn't her in the yes. Yes yes absolutely in. Its origins think archbishop romero as being the expression of liberation theology as profound solidarity with the poor in on a religious assertion that christ jesus had a preferential option for the poor as head christianity that the entire proposition of christianity was one in which Poor folks were their experience with the very center of the story. And should remain matt. And that the contention that has political implications for everybody who professes christianity incomes incomes of justice making amber means with which they pursued justice. So that's the contention liberation theology but started in latin america as i say a really kind of grassroots movement but proliferated into feminist liberation theologies black liberation theologies and other sort of identity based liberation theologies over the course of the seventies eighties and nineties and beyond as we learned how to apply the methodologies in the to center the experiences of other marginalized groups in the practice of theology. Ising essentially. it's feminist. Theology is one of those offshoots when i consider the early feminist theologians to be my among my greatest teachers as well as james cone and other black liberation theologians united states. However it's what's interesting to me anyway. That i'm not christian and never was right so it was something about the what would they call us terminated. It's it's it's a. It's an interpretive man's of liberation theology that i overlaid and other parts of my life a way of understanding the world it's part political analysis part social justice commitment. It's a cohesive way of looking at the world and how it works and how it should work is really what liberation theology has given the in my life and it doesn't require a christian on depending how does one go through divinity school which i in my ninety. I seem to be a christian faculty and not be christian. Do you have to be very quiet or are you there saying. I'm not just well. Certainly there may be among your listeners. Folks who would say that A christian has no business going to a christian school which indeed i did but i mean feel logical. Education is actually very similar in structure across faiths protestant catholic jewish. Faiths once you get beyond that looks at ministerial. The formation and credentialing of religious professionals in the united states is remarkably consistent across a really wide range faiths so that said I did go to an episcopal divinity school because in boston in cambridge. Actually piscopo tony's. In the reason i went there is because there were several of the leading scholars of famous the including two of the priests women priests who had been irregularly ordained in the nineteen seventies harbor hayward and Alson cheap so. I was under the impression that weren't many women ordained around about that time. How did you manage to end up studying on the ones who had been so. I chose the episcopal divinity school in cambridge massachusetts In the late eighties. When i went off to school in the reason i chose. Eds was because of the presence of two of the eleven women episcopal women who had been ordained in the nineteen seventies irregularly by a renegade progressive. Bishop did the right thing and ordained these god loving women and they were on the faculty along with an amazing woman as theologian katie. Geneva cannon with whom i studied for an extra years for my md so at the master of divinity is the degree that most folks in protestant and catholic. Traditions have that provides the academic credentials behind ordination including in my own tradition. But there were a number of students there who were not pursuing ordination and in fact almost no one was ordaining out gay and lesbian people. At the time you were at the time. Yes yes. I came out as lesbian in college. Went to school out but eds was very progressive place So that was. There was a juxtaposition on usual for women to be regained in a lot of traditions. At that point the fiscal church had begun ordaining women but it was virtually impossible to be ordained as a queer person so i went really expecting to become a theologian that was my goal to be a theologian and enter. Right bula s- books but my my life path has shifted just really because of liberation theologies. And i did social justice work really for the next ten years after that affordable housing merck in some of the poorest rural communities in the united states after that right okay having abundant the idea of writing. Books did that did he pick that up. Later can never truly left me. If i'm perfectly honest but the sufficiency of a writing life to contend with the magnitude of the suffering and systemic problems especially in the united states it never quite seemed to fit the bill it just seemed insufficient to me no offense to great writers everywhere but i was surely not among them And had my labour might be better used elsewhere. And so why did you shift away from that. Because you're not doing that now. What drew you back into. Academic work in that into the sacred design lab. Well i started going to church. That's what happened. I had all along those years. I never went to church Because i didn't think there was a church. Frankly that would work for me politically and theologically and also in terms of my family and my sexuality. It is hard to remember what united states was like in the eighties and nineties. It was not particularly friendly. Place that was beginning to change Special in terms of sexuality whether it was the aids crisis here. It was the reagan era post. Reagan era. not a friendly moment on. So i started going to church i started going to a unitarian universalist church in massachusetts where my then partner and i had moved because it was the only state in the united states that allowed What they call. Second parent adoptions which allowed gay people to actually adopt out of the foster care system which was the way that we had decided. We wanted to I will say our children and in the best sense of the word somebody. I started going to church. And that is what changed my life because i finally found a place that i could be all who was with all of my commitments and that led to a vocational call to congregational ministry for which i was already academically prepared right but i finished the clinical preparation required when austin was ordained and you call earlier a post christian church. Can you pick that one for me. 'cause that sounds fascinating it's clayton story of how this has this came to pass. I probably have many colleagues in unitarian universalism that would cringe depiction. But you're the one of the podcasts to that's fine i am here i am. Let me tell you why. I'd say that. So unitarian universalism unitarian. Ism are sort of different trump's on the christian tree. If you think about you know the two thousand plus history of christianity in In the world think about it as a long trunk of debates in the faith that became catholicism but there was a thousand years of argumentation. About what form that. That shirt should take but also about the theology you know. Time to canonize certain books of the bible and not others sentenced to debate the logically like the council of my sia which some of us now know the result of that is the nice in creed right which is really you have a has to say a bizarre contortion of theological argumentation that so many people speak sunday after sunday. The reason i'm laughing is because of how tran how transparent and in articulate its depiction is of theological arguments at the heart of the family and christian family tree at that moment. So is that six twenty six council of nice. I think it was three twenty five. And i'm almost embarrassed that i know that no it's good. It's really interesting is that was that was under. Constantine yeah so it was proto. Unitarians never would have called themselves. That then sort of lost the debate at the council of vice versa and that was about the nature of the relationship between jesus and god and we became known over many hundreds of years as unitarians at which was a derisive term to oppose trinitaria. Okay which of course believe in god in jesus the holy spirit right okay. So that's that's the unitarian. Pathway much more to be said there but the universalist part of the story well. It has a number of origins but to kind of minor stage in the american religious history in the wake of the the second grade awakening which was a period of religious revival and upheaval in the united states in the eighteenth century in which a kind of orthodoxy took over mainstream religious expression required just painted a picture of a very scary god who was judgmental who is only the elect to work to be saved from a fiery pits of hell that awaited everyone else and in the in the wake of this really robust. You can't believe how vivid services are at this moment. Absolutely absolutely terrifying pictures of gods and universalist emerged as a response to the horrors. I think frankly of the second great awakening incense simply that there was universal salvation. That guide is love. In that as our parent. God is to loving us to consign any of us to everlasting hell hence universal salvation. So these two branches separate joined together in the nineteen sixties as a denomination in its current expression unitarian universalism of which came first universal humanitarianism or unitarian universalism. Indeed yes. it's still quite an argument. Because unitarians were sort of province especially in the boston area. Unitarians think emerson and margaret fuller thorough and the transcendental. It's were all the chariots and privilege class privileged and our universalist siblings were generally working class generally rural and This debate has never left our religious hot movement. That will vote cast. I feel so. Let's combat that some other time. I am just curious before we move on. Did you ever consider becoming a stonemason. If i had had the slightest artistic ability. I may have. I don't my to the extent that i have any artistic expression in me at is with words. Okay all righty yes. It's just it's always seemed to me that the building of those big buildings and the beauty that is built into them such an extraordinary and beautiful expression of what it is to be human that again. If i had thought that i could wield a hammer and chisel i think i would have had down that road to but we have words you and i. So let's stay with words and moved to the setting up of the sacred design lab hot moved you to get together with tubular students in sound things and create the entity. That now is actually engine. Casper weren't my students. I was as much theirs So engine casper to millennial folks. Angie was born in the united states in boulder Mostly grew up in boulder colorado which is known here as a kind of progressive lead. Smoking iconoclast outdoor culture on casper was a climate activists who was born in the uk from dutch parents and so casper came to the united states. A at the kennedy school of government at harvard and basically switched over to the divinity school He got he got a degree from the kennedy school. But because that's where people were asking the interesting questions katherine. Angie hooked up before i knew them not in their their their intellectual partners not romantic partners but they had a really juicy and dynamic intellectual collaboration asking themselves with the question basically where people like s non church people going to make and find the meaning that they used to go to traditional religious communities four and this was at a moment when everybody who paid attention to american religious life had seen via the pew charitable trust. Survey numbers institutional membership and affiliation. Going down down down down down. Across almost every slice of american religious life fra per about fifteen years so this precipitous fall had been taking place in cast. When angie did a survey survey not not as an a questionnaire beneath an extensive series of interviews landscape mapping of the kinds of community groups and individual efforts that were rising out of mostly millennial experience to do the same jobs at traditional religion had and they wrote a monograph called how we gather which really received a tremendous amount of attention and the reason it did is a core proposition of sacred design mob. I think which is that. No data that we have ever seen anecdotal or quantitative has said that the longing for spiritual and religious experience has changed at all right in the last fifty years but the our desire to access the traditional sources the traditional entities congregations and other religious entities. That did those jobs is has decreased dramatically so more and more people are less and less religious but the longing in human hearts for the same big questions same experiences has not reached at all so it was it was their formation of that question that hooked us up got us together to think about highly might address it and that was the effort that became a couple of years later. Sacred design lab brilliant. So how long have you been going. Then when did you actually formerly set up. Yeah well we're in our fifth year of active collaboration. Thanks to our partners. At the fetzer institute the amazing foundation that funded are work early on instill is our primary partner today. The people whose fund the on being put cast. I'm recognizing the name. Yes in fact. Sacred design lab before we before we branded the sacred design lab. The had a year long incubation at the on being project where we were able to Incubates some of the ideas that we ve on branded as sacred design lab. We didn't even have a name for about three years as we were writing and learning and talking to people and kind of figuring out what our strategic mission was and then eighteen months laid up ago we formed sacred design lab. So you're really relatively quite new you need and so in. Its most recent iteration. The one that arose eighteen months ago. Tell me what sacred design lab is an does and hopes to do sacred design. Lab is a essentially a research and development laboratory for learning about how to apply traditional wisdom. That has been locked up behind institutional doors and deliver it to solve problems problems in the so called. Secular world lint. We do this in a in a bunch of ways. I mean to be honest. Sacred design lab in a way emerged because as we were did more and more writing and thinking about the challenges that i've spent some time just now talking about more and more people asked us to help them think about what the implications were in their own contexts. And so we're getting tons of requests. Come and talk to us come in rebels think about this what strategic what are the strategic implications of this and so we did what what a lot of people would do which is we started consulting so consulting. It's the word. The bus describes the fact that our partners Engage us to help them. Think about how to apply an end. Sort of baked into strategies. The things that we're seeing about how the world is working and what the world needs to serve and that's what sacred design lobbed is a these businesses or individuals or yup so sacred design. Lab is a nonprofit organization. That's important say but we had to make a strategic decision. Quite early on about what kind of change we wanted to make and to get clear about what our methodology was going to be who our audience was because we were fortunate enough to have this affiliation with harvard divinity school and we were ministry innovation fellows there for years until very recently We had access frankly to some lever tight sectors and leaders in the business world that people with our credentials almost never get access to including the academic world and so we decided early on that we in order make the kind of culture level changes we feel are necessary. We wanted to to try to access tech and healthcare and philanthropy as a strategic decision. Now you can see that reflected on our website because we use language that is very broad and attempts to be evocative and yet still carry some of the heft of traditional religious language. I mean in the in the end you can say in a way we are. We are translators more than anything else in bridge builders between the so called difference between the secular and the religious world. We don't think that any such from distinction actually exists but the world thinks it does. So that's what we do. We also work extensively in the religious world advising mostly denominations about how to bring it. Essentially business innovation practices and mind frameworks to apply to the religious world to try to begin to do better at delivering the wisdom from that world more effectively because it really the distribution network of traditional religious communities the united states in large measure is broken. It's working very poorly right now. And so we do a quite a lot of work to try to reinterpret in apply. Innovative practices there somewhere. Like to unpick. But before. so there's so many routes we could take you said the cultural changes that you felt that you wanted to bring into tech healthcare and philanthropy as as three big broad areas so so let's begin to drill down into the into the depths of this before we get to that in the world i inhabit which i think is not very different from the world that you inhabit religious and spiritual or not necessarily coterminous. It's possible to have a sense of deep deep connection to the more than human world in the spirit within it and yet not be affiliated to traditional religion which sounds like you are for most of your life until the unitarian universalist her universal unitarians created. I still haven't quite got my head around post christian churches but we'll we'll get to that eventually so when people are coming to you. Are they coming from a framework once what to us is old traditional religion and this is a world where two thousand years is considered old. I exist in a world where it's less than ten thousand years old. It's it's very new and probably not worth looking at but most people don't inhabit reality. So they looking for stuff that exists within a traditional ibrahim specifically linguistic and narrative framework. Are they looking for connections to an actual living spirit and in your world is potential dichotomy between these two. This is a captivating question that has Captured human imagination for thousands of years. And in a way. I would duck the question by saying neither. It's it's not really any of them Anybody who's done congregational ministry for example knows that people often don't know what they need or want or the words to use to say it and that frankly a lot of arts variances safer design lab. I don't say this to disrespect our partners who are uniformly wonderful spirits and hartson tremendous minds. What we hear from our partners is a longing to create and to live in as charles eisenstein calls it a more beautiful world. Our hearts know is possible and so we get approached with questions like these are real examples. I can't always say who the client was but We want to create a work environment. Wintel physical work environment. That helps her employees to know that they belong here. And we we want them to deliver their gifts in service of what it is. We're trying to create here. How can we can. We craft a literal physical environment that invokes imagination and inspiration and a sense of connection and belonging among the people who spend most of their lives here so in that case we we worked with architects to help imagining delmonico's contempt of spaces and soaring Inspirational spaces and work areas. That might be able to help folks rest in integrate in biz amidst busy workday. So that's one example. Of course we're not architects and so this doesn't rely on us having that technical skill but basically on expanding the imagination the architects for what the souls who work there need to flourish so that's one example but on the other hand we were working in this magnificent partnership with the united methodist development fund which is a major funder in the methodist movement which is huge in the united states now called the wesleyan invested and with our partners there. We have convened Twenty or twenty-five innovators within methodism and also people at the very core of the methodist church. Institutionally for many months long conversation about how to deliver the gifts of methodists on to a world that is not methodist you might have to unpick quote. The gifts of methodism are because. I'm terribly naive about these. Things was unique that well. I mean john wesley. The founder of methodism amazing person were total worth looking at but on london. Things at john wesley taught is that small groups of people are the unit of an air quotes here church that is most compelling to folks so in order to have fulsome religious lies. We need to do it in community and the best way to do that in small groups so the spiritual technology of small groups is central to methodism. That's an example of a gift they have hundreds of years of practice in what religiously oriented small groups look like in how they work now. That's a gift that the world desperately needs whether or not there methodists. And so for example. We're helping them think about how to help to do that. Well for the the hurting world that exists beyond their literal church doors right so these both sound quite practical could be without religious overtones and they could probably be done purely on a psychotherapeutic level. Yvonne wanted to and. I'm not suggesting you are but in the work that you're doing. Are you connecting to what i would call the more than human world. They'll let is so that the people that come to you are also asking the question. Not only how do we create a contemporary space for the people who work with us but does our work. Then bring us towards unhurt in world is that d- does that make sense is a question that lets we're expanding on the. How can we do what we do better to hook what we do. Make the world a better place. This is a compelling question is a critique of our work not not that you just levied but it isn't legitimate critique of our work that in stripping away the faith claims and theological structure and history and tradition of some of the ideas. we work with. We have first of all the things we talked about our no longer themselves when they're taken out of context so for example a contemporary space. That doesn't have a subject of contemplation. It is legitimate question to ask. Is it a contemporary space. It's just it's just a room if there's no orientation or context or content to that space and it's a very important question for religious and spiritual expression of our time about where that line is between a thing that is still itself anything that becomes something entirely different if it's taken our it's extracted from its tradition. We we we have a way that we have arrived at the answer to that question which is in order to deliver some of the wisdom and practices that have been locked up it is necessary to sort of crete some of institutional structures the polity structures. And yes some of the theological propositions from them in order to to make them accessible to other people. There will always be folks who argue that you can't in fact shouldn't do that We tried to be deeply respectful of the traditions that we engage with but by the same token one of the ways. I have resolved. This is that. I feel like the wisdom that humans generated over tens of thousands of years about makes for flourishing life is the birthright of every human. Now that's could be perceived as a colonial conclusion right so there's a real art form and a justice responsibility to interrogate that carefully on the ground as we actually do it. But ultimately i do feel like there's birthright wisdom that folks are being kept from and there is a way to do this process of discovery translation with honor. And of course that's where we hope we land and we take it very seriously. Justice is an integral part of the lands that we use in our centered work which i could go on and on about but suffice it to say this is something we grapple we grapple. Yeah and i would love to know more about your cells enter but just before we get there just for my own interest. So we're talking about the wisdom that humans have gathered over tens of thousands of years. So we're going way back before the ibrahimovic religions wherever brought up to a point where we go far enough current thinking has that we all emerge out of africa that i have read people who dispute that. But let's head down that rabbit hole. I'm kind of interested in. How does it come to be interpreted as colonialism. If you say the common ancestors of humanity how do wisdom that would benefit us all and we can begin to try to connect with that in ways that are relevant to the modern day. Where does the glitch happen in that. That says we're white people we come to that. There would be finer ways to articulate answer without but my understanding and my belief is that there there is actually specific pathways. That wisdom has followed since those moments of origin. And it's actually in specific pathways that a lot of the meaning in the practices and the the people that lived lives formed by those practices and ideas and commitments that were very specific and that arose out of specific context and evolved at a specific contexts. And it's actually decontextualizing. These ideas that is can be colonial type injury because of course. White westerners have always felt entitled to extract value from other people's land and traditions. And so there is. I think legitimate concern about how we do that. But given the fact that we're in the middle of the six months extinction and we're heading towards the edge of climate cliff from which there is no return. It seems to me that if there is wisdom to be had it would be good for us to avail ourselves of it rather than sitting back gone. Not sure but that that might not be appropriate. It sounds very wise. But actually i don't know the context would be where i would get to in my naivety expose. I think probably the because we live on land. I live on land where we don't know how far back invasion went. If you see the people who are indigenous to hear might well still be here on the the layers of overlay are so long ago that it's hard for us to find them whereas you live in a land where we can count the number of years since people arrived and it makes a big difference. I would guess as a complete aside and just from my own interest again when you're creating contemporary to spacey's without context in my mind what that creates is a space that has the energetic nexus of stillness that is the essence of or the requirement for us to connect to the lettuce. And then if i enter into that i could bring. Buddhists sensibilities are chamonix sensibilities are abraham accents sensibilities and that space would still be conducive to my connecting to whatever's the greater wisdom that i can connect to is that that would seem to me to be what you're trying to do. Okay you're not. This is good throughout your podcast. And see you nodding. Yes yes indeed indeed because we most most humans no in bodies not necessarily in our minds but in our bodies that there is an alchemy. Aalyah that metaphor. Maybe some of your listeners. Don't use it as a metaphor and actually are practitioners. But but there's an alchemy of individual heart intent practice preparation imagination that can't in a physical space especially when joined with other people and artifacts physical objects in a container that is meant to hold and build and create those experiences. Something happens often in those environments that cannot be explained by reducted sense of the component parts. That's what we kind of on right. Religious people rely on whatever magic. Call it that is So yeah i'm with you. I believe it is possible to do a lot of that But that's part. What sacred design lab does quite. Frankly is that such of the second world elax trust that such things are possible and that there is a there is a creative force that you might call god. Your listeners might park out her spirit or whatever that actually Is co creator in those spaces. Now we don't evangelize in any way in fact on my t. We are widely Various theological beliefs but the presence of something that is great on some of its parts. It's something we can all agree. Yes and the people who are asking you for help must agree with that. A little tiny bit or they wouldn't be coming to ask you for help so they long for a world that is animated by more than the material world they have helped create and we can all understand that long we yes we can along for that and so when i very first heard of you there were three words belonging becoming beyond. That seemed to be absolutely at the core of what you did what you believed what you helped other people to do. Can you pick those for us. A little bit short. So as sacred design lab We have to find ways of communicating. What the soul needs. Because essentially that's our that's our re-met we we attempt to help our partners to address the souls needs. And we had to develop a way of describing. Frankly what those needs are. And in this way i mean so so have humans for the last really since time immemorial tried to understand what humans need now to address them our way of describing what the soul needs is a triptych of belonging becoming and beyond and the short definition of these are that belonging is a need to create to claim and be claimed by up people to find ourselves claimed and to claim a people meaning not only a group of living souls but also tradition and people could to find ourselves embedded and to find repose. They're becoming is the lived experience of becoming the people that were called to be finding purpose and the pathways to to practice becoming all that we can be not necessarily achievement but the pathway to to becoming and then beyond is connecting to something more something larger than ourselves and usually. That is not just a kind of transcendent component but also Lineage across across time in a relationship to time that puts us in kind of cosmic time if you will so those that triptych belonging becoming and beyond we think is almost universal description of what the soul needs to me a little bit more about putting us into cosmic time well i mean when you're developing a theoretical framework. It's always a struggle to put really abstract concepts into words that are communicable to two others on the so and and to not use words that then are so specific that they exclude other people's interpretations. What those words could meet but all of our teachers and all of our reading and study and all the ways that the people. We talked to talk about what matters most to them. It's more the folsom loss of what is possible. Is not just in this moment on this plane as important as actual presence is to so many religious traditions like real time real moment here mouth type lessons but a feeling of connection to eternity essentially not only because it's that rome that answers questions about the origins of life and what happens after we die but to find to find ourselves right-sized as humans that live a particular lifetime in particular moment in the face of eternal time. I think as one of the core human questions that we have to most people are curious about where they fit in that eternal time so that concept of beyond needs to engage. That question beautiful. Thank you as a purely personal question for you. What do you think happens after we die. I mean i believe that our bodies go to dust stardust from which we came. I also believe that in our presence in the way we've influenced others just as we've been influenced by the community of humans before amd the specific people out of which we came that will be our influence moving forward in the hearts and bodies and minds of the people we have influenced well beyond people who could actually remember our actual person we will have influenced including the communities that we live in and the spaces we occupy. But that's the extent of mike clean. I don't know beyond that of those things. I feel pretty certain about on. I have never trust anybody that before. At least not cast. I'm just curious. I think partly because for reasons too complicated to go into now. I've had a real sense of my own mortality much more than before. So i'm experiencing each day as if it were were absolutely new but also potentially the last one without without any particular. It's not that. I have some kind of terminal diagnosis. It just feels as if death is right around the corner on that life. Is there for much richer. But also i become curious as to to nights whereas before i've held kinda theoretical views. That didn't ever really feel as if they were going to be tested. So yeah it's interesting so talking on them to that. I still don't quite know what a post christian churches who you give me. The the edited highlights of that sure so in the in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in the united states although not exclusively you can just see in the history of if you take like sort of enlightenment history questions of the relationship between science and religion and epistemology of like how do we know what we know what our faith claims. Rooted in revelation is it direct experience tracking enlightenment thinking through the transcendental lists in the united states. Where emerson and thoreau margaret fuller. Any other transit dang lists essentially railed against The the reason heart the scientific part of the enlightenment and said wait more experience about spirit about god than can be measured in scientific method. There's gotta be more to it. So the transcendental were transcending essentially just reason as the evista logical part of what we know about religion which is itself strange because most christians and other religious people don't recognize reason as a primary source of religious wisdom but my my people did and so by the early twentieth century unitarian in particular became serve humanistic religious religious humanism began to carry the theological day which is sort of moving away from jesus as an actual divine figure and actual belief in god. Now this happened over many years and was always about who were the privilege people in our movement. And what did they think Which was always highly academic in unitarian especially unitarian and so religious humanism began to Transplant a christian centered notion of what was the third religious project. Hand who got. Jesus were in relationship to one another so that by the early twentieth century. Many of our congregations were humanist as much as we retained the kind of traditional protestant like churches in new england all of the white steeple churches most people associate with religion and america not evangelical religion. Those are unitarian churches. Okay so we still have those white steeple. Churches in the center of the town. Green in lexington occurred all those places in new england and the structure of worship looks the same. They're still hymns. They're still sermons. They're still children's stories but the content is not biblical right the christmas and easter and things like that. Yuck still celebrate. Christmas and easter as in attempts to sort of refresh the interpretation of what those holidays would that liturgical our than our ancestors gave us mean in this moment and different people different functions. Answer that differently than we do have christian congregations but in general were given the freedom to interpret as we will And not to be the freedom not to be biblically based brilliant okay and you have to go very shortly. I had one final question. Which if you can answer it possibly very succinctly as you've moved through time as sacred design lab has been asked by. I'm guessing increasing numbers of people for help. Are you seeing a sense of people coming together. That would help to balance out. What is otherwise looking like a deeply polarized society and world. Can you first light at the end of the tunnel. Innocence while it's always the religious spiritual project to focus our hearts and our intentions on the light bit is always available. That's the core of the wreckage. Project is to stay to as my teacher. Victorious offered wednesday to plant our feats at the gate of hope to plant our feet at the gate of hope. Yes i let me to the extent that i feel optimistic right now. Even in the face of pandemic racism in the united states and covid and trumpism a growing awareness of what is essential not just in terms of the workers who service in endemic extremity but also in what hearts that is literally locked up in our own houses. What those hearts need. How to balance a meaningful life between the capitalist project and everyday life for example what humans need to actually thrive Have been refreshed. Our our desire to ask those questions has been refreshed by as by extremity by necessity. So many folks who were protected by privilege have had scaled. Sloan fall from our eyes. But what is really happening. So yes i do find renewed. Hope that The urgency will be there to more boldly step into this more beautiful world. Our hearts know as possible. I pray that it is so fantastic. That feels like an extremely good place to end. Sue phillips. Thank you so much for coming onto the accidental podcast. What a pleasure thank you. So that's it for another week. In norris thanks to sue for the depth and integrity of her thinking and her capacity to frame the most complex and important questions of our time in ways that are so inclusive and so open for all of us to engage. We talked for another hour. At least we could probably talk for the rest of the day but here we are. That was our our. And i hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. We will be back next week with another conversation. And in the meantime thanks to carry see for the sound production and the music the head and foot. Thanks to tillery for the website and the tech. An thanks to you for listening. If you enjoy what you hear please do pastas link to everybody else that you know who wants to be part of the more beautiful world. The our hearts snow is possible as ever does a membership program accidental. God's if you want our way of connecting to the more than human world and i will put links to everything of sacred design love in the show notes if you want to know more about them to if we ever get to set up a uk version. I promise you. I will link to that too but that is it for now. See you next week. Thank you and goodbye.
Democracy Now! 2021-04-28 Wednesday
"From new york this is democracy now. American leadership must me this new moment of advancing authoritarianism including growing bishop of china to rival the united states and the determination of russia to damage damaging disrupt our democracy as president biden addresses a joint session of congress tonight for the first time we spend the hours looking at biden's foreign policy record over his first one hundred days in office and over the past half century above. All biden is empire politician. He is someone who believes that questions of war. Don't really matter on a moral level. But how does it. Impact america's credibility security and prestige. We speak to the intercept. Jeremy scale about his new sweeping investigative project empire politician about joe biden stances on war militarism and the cia. Going back to the early seventies when he was first elected as a senator in delaware all that and more coming up welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org the quarantine report. I'm amy goodman a warning to our audience. The next two stories contain descriptions and images of police violence. The fbi is open to civil rights investigation into the police killing of andrew brown junior and elizabeth city north carolina. An independent autopsy confirms brown a forty two year old. Black father was shot five times by police including in the back of the head. Brown's family and their lawyers have only been allowed to see a twenty second video of the killing from a single body camera which shows brown had his hands on the steering wheel of his car when he was shot. Dead new surveillance video shows a group of officers in a car in the moments before brown was killed. A lawyer says just four seconds past from the time they arrived on the scene and the time they fired shots on tuesday. Five people were arrested as protesters defied an eight pm curfew. In elizabeth city to demand justice for andrew brown in california recently released body camera footage shows alameda. Police killing mario our analysis gonzalez twenty six year. Old lat next man with officers kneeling on his back and shoulder until he loses consciousness. Contradicting previous account of the incident from police. Officers had alleged gonzales. Who is from. Oakland died the morning of april nineteenth after suffering a medical emergency during a scuffle while they attempted to restrain him. But the footage has revealed gonzalez was alone in a park when officers arrived at the scene after receiving complaints of a man who is allegedly intoxicated. Gonzalez calmly speaks to the officers before they attempt to place his hands behind his back. He screams as police are trying to handcuff him. The officers then pin him face down on the ground. One officer has his knee. Gonzalez says back and another is kneeling on his shoulder for a few minutes until he becomes unresponsive. Police also alleged gonzalez had died at the hospital but the footage shows he stopped breathing on site with one officer saying he had no pulse. Gonzalez family held a news conference. Tuesday demanded an investigation into his death. Police officers murdered my brother mario. My mother was heartbroken. To see mario's last moments mile was a kind of humorous man. He was a loving father and the caretaker for our brother was benjamin needs. The police killed my brother in the same manner that they killed. George floyd and international news. India's official corona virus death toll has topped two hundred thousand as it's devastating second wave continues to grip the nation. Three hundred sixty thousand new cases were reported over the past day yet. Another record researchers say the true number of cases and deaths is likely far higher. As international assistant starts to trickle. In medical supplies remain dangerously. Low on hospitals and cremation sites are overwhelmed. This is an ambulance driver. In new delhi the naval leeann. Do they knew makeshift cremation. Platforms are being constructed. Because there's no space for cremation inside the crematorium a few platforms are being constructed here. In fear being constructed on the other side one group estimates at least one hundred journalists in india have died of cove close to half of those within the past two weeks press. Freedom groups warned journalists are also facing increasing obstruction and censorship by the government of prime minister. Narendra modi elsewhere. Turkey announced a full nationwide lockdown to slow its covert surge. Turkey reported over thirty seven thousand new infections over the past day. The fourth highest daily case load in the world brazil has rejected russia's sputnik v vaccine over concerns about safety citing a lack of quality control an efficacy data the maker of sputnik v said. The decision was politically motivated pointing to a report earlier. This year that said. Us government officials push brazil to turn down the vaccine. The world health organization has not yet approved sputnik v for emergency use listing. Here in the us. The cdc issued new guidelines tuesday saying fully vaccinated. People do not need to wear masks outdoors except for at large gatherings such as concerts or sports stadiums. This is president biden. Beginning today gathered a group of friends in a park going for a picnic as you are vaccinated and outdoors. You can do it without a mask. The seattle city council in washington passed a resolution urging biden to support a waiver on patent rights for covid nineteen vaccines council member chamois savan said quote. This resolution demonstrates our movements rejection of the status quo of profit-driven vaccine par vaccine nationalism and our fight for vaccine internationalism for a people's vaccine she said meanwhile a new washington post. Abc news poll finds. A quarter of women are worse off financially than they were before the pandemic versus eighteen percent of men and twenty seven percent of people of color. Say they're in a worse. Financial situation versus eighteen percent of whites. The biden administration's proposing a one point eight trillion dollar plan to invest in education healthcare childcare and paid family leave by will unveil the american families plan during his first address to congress. This evening the package will be funded in part through changes to the capital gains tax and a crackdown on tax evasion. By the wealthy biden's proposing an eighty billion dollars funding increase for the irs. Over ten years to fund the effort white house officials say the move could generate seven hundred billion dollars over ten years if passed individuals who earn more than four hundred thousand dollars a year would face a higher likelihood of an audit of their taxes in chat at least five protesters were killed. Tuesday as calls grow for transition to civilian rule chad's been in a state of turmoil since the battlefield death longtime president idriss debbi last week on monday. Chad's new military leaders who took power following debbie's death banned demonstrations and named the runner up of recent presidential elections as the transitional prime minister the military governments rejected talks with the rebel fighters accused of killing debbie who have been threatening to advance on the capital in ethiopia. A senior government official says up to two hundred people were killed this month. In clashes between a romo and hara communities ethiopia's two largest ethnic groups the fighting in the northern how region has reportedly displaced over a quarter million people including one small town that was completely burned. In march it's one of several flashpoints in ethiopia in the tegray region. Thousands of people have been killed since conflict broke out last november with widespread reports of war crimes including sexual violence against women and girls. The fighting's led to food shortages and aid groups worn. Millions are at risk of famine. Makina fatso to spanish. Generalist were killed in an ambush while on an anti-poaching patrol in the eastern region of the country journalists. David burying and roberto friday. Were working on a documentary about poaching. And we're traveling with about forty people when an armed group attacked them on a road. Leading to the mass of forest reserves of pomme and irish conservationists was also killed and at least four others were reported missing the committee to protect journalists condemned the attack is demanding a thorough and transparent investigation in el salvador pretrial hearings and the one thousand nine hundred eighty one almaza day massacre being held this week. Nearly a thousand civilians from across seven villages were killed in the massacre carried out by. Us trained salvadoran military officers. One of the expert witnesses stanford university political scientist. Terry carl detail the onsite presence of us. Military advisor. alan bruce hazelwood with the salvadoran army at the time of the massacre providing new insight into what coral referred to as a sophisticated cover up the events on behalf of the reagan administration and the salvadoran military junta soda. Tunnel the presence of an american advisor with salvadoran general monte rosa. Whose name is alan. Bruce hazelwood if this had been made public at the time in my opinion and the opinion of thomas enders and other secretaries of state this would have cut. Us aid because this is illegal back in the us. Democrats in voting rights advocates are raising concerns that recently revealed census data will lead to an underrepresentation of latin next residents as a result of former president trump's attempts to exclude undocumented people from the twenty twenty cents us texas florida and arizona which all have growing lat next populations had been to gain one additional house each while democratic states with large lot next population such as california new york lost seats california congress member norma torres tweeted quote. The trump administration did everything it could to prevent an accurate count in the twenty twenty census. Now californians are paying the price. The culture of fear instilled within our communities jeopardizes billions in funding that our state deserve. She said meanwhile new york governor andrew cuomo has asked attorney general letitia james to look into legal options after new york came just eighty nine residents shy of maintaining all of its congressional districts. It lost a seat. The department of homeland security is limiting the power of immigration and customs enforcement agents to arrest immigrants in or near courthouses unless they present an imminent danger or a national security threat. Meanwhile dha secretary hundred. Marcus launched a probe to address the threat of domestic violent extremism within his department in other immigration news. The group la resistencia is reporting an ice flight earlier. This week transferred sixty four asylum seekers from the us mexico border to washington. State's northwest detention center in tacoma a for profit immigrant prison run by geo group in medical news. Oxford university researchers say their new anti-malaria vaccine proved highly effective at preventing disease among children in a small clinical trial in west africa. The next scene showed up to seventy seven percent efficacy in a study involving. Four hundred fifty toddlers in qena foucault where. Malaria endemic oxford researcher. Hill said it's the first time a malaria vaccine has reached a goal set by the world health organization. A malaria vaccine would seventy five percents or more exceed by twenty thirty. We think we can do that. So seventy seven percent is the highest and could really add to the existing tools that we use to control larrea malaria which is caused by mosquito borne parasite kills four hundred thousand people around the world each year. Most of them small children back in the united states. Idaho's republican governor. Brad little signed into law a bill banning most abortions as soon as a fetal heartbeat can be detected which can happen as early as six weeks before many people know. They're pregnant however the bill will only go into effect if a federal appeals court. Upholds another so-called heartbeat ban prompting reproductive rights groups to accuse the governor of signing the loss simply to appeal to his radical followers and in massachusetts nurses. At saint vincent hospital in worcester have been on strike for eight weeks to protest understaffing nurse to patient ratios and cuts to support staff which jeopardize patient care and staff safety and caused over one hundred nurses to leave the hospital. Saint vincent hospital is owned by tenet healthcare. The third largest four prophet hospital company in the united states and those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now. Democracy now dot org the quarantine report. I made me goodman in new york joined by democracy now one gonzales new brunswick new jersey high juan amy and welcome all of our listeners and viewers across the country and around the world well president biden is addressing a joint session of congress tonight for the first time it comes on the eve of his one hundredth day in the white house biden expected to unveil as one point eight trillion dollar american families plan to expand educational opportunities childcare and paid family leave. He's proposing to fund the plan in part by raising the capital gains tax for the nation's wealthiest households and cracking down on wealthy dodgers while much of tonight's speech is expected to focus on domestic issues. We spend the hour today. Looking at biden's foreign policy record both as president and over the past half century the intercept just launched a sweeping project examining a half-century biden stances on war militarism and the cia going back to the early seventies. when biden was first elected senator of delaware. The project is called empire politician. It was created by the award. Winning journalist jeremy scahill senior correspondent editor at large at the intercept which he helped found later in the show. Jeremy will join us. But first we turn to a new video featuring jeremy scahill produced by the intercept have never had a president with a longer paper trail than joe biden. He's taken so many different positions on the same issues so many times throughout his career that i sometimes wonder if biden even knows anymore what he actually thinks about a particular issue. Joe biden might tell you one thing one day really believe it and then the next day. He's doing the exact opposite because he's got some side deal that maybe we'll hear about some years above all is empire politician. He is someone who believes that questions of war. Don't really matter on a moral level. But how does it. Impact america's credibility security and prestige youngest new face in the us senate next year. We'll be that a democrat. Joseph fighting delaware joe biden began his run for the us senate richard. Nixon was running a wallis administration. We must never allow america. They become the second strongest nation in the world. The is conducting operations inside of the united states. There's secret components to the war. In vietnam and early on in his senate career biden ends up on a subcommittee that is examining the issue of american war power. Who has the right to send the american people into a war and he becomes an original cosponsor of one of the most important laws passed by the united states. Congress on questions of war. The war powers act grew out of the agony of the vietnam war. Based on its constitutional authority. Congress passed a joint resolution which obliged the president to get congressional approval also biden becomes a very early and ardent critic of the cia for the perception that the white house and the cia are regularly circumventing the us. Congress and then on the other side of it biden becomes a totally radical warrior against leaking and against whistleblowers. Jimmy carter nominates an outsider to be director of the cia. Ted sorensen friend of the kennedy family and adviser to jfk. Carter had said he was going to rain in the cia shrinking. Reduce its budget but then biden discovers. Ted sorensen actually wrote an affidavit in support of daniel ellsberg when the pentagon papers prosecution was happening and ellsberg was facing a century in prison under the espionage. Act and in that affidavit. Ted sorenson says everybody in washington classified documents home and they regularly leak far more sensitive documents to the press than the pentagon papers ted sorensen's nomination was dead in the water. After biden joined the republicans biden was more obsessed with some random admission from a washington insider that they had taken classified documents home then. He was about actually raining in the cia. Republican audience is lovely has a reagan and bush take power in washington biden. Understands exactly what they wanna do. They want to undo all of the oversight mechanisms that were put in place posts. Nixon so biden becomes the leading. Opponent of reagan's nominee to be director. William casey but then as binding sort of gets to know people and he's he's big on personal relationships he starts to back away from his own. Supposedly bedrock positions so he opposes william casey's nomination but ultimately that votes for william casey throughout casey's tinier which spanned both of reagan's terms. You see biden on the one hand blasting casey in public and then privately literally collaborating to sell covert options as in american national interest in some cases to sell wars that were being done without the very laws being followed that joe biden cosponsored. He had supported the invasion of grenada. In one thousand nine hundred three he supported airstrikes that were intended to kill moammar gadhafi in one thousand nine hundred eighty six in nicaragua and the reagan administration begins financing and arming the contra death squads and this would ultimately lead to the iran. Contra scandal biden publicly railing against the funding of the contras. But then does what i think. Just be called. A biden biden starts to try to broker deals. Well we can support the contras. Mister reagan if we put this restriction on it and that restriction on it. I think we know he's would say oh. Well that's because i'm a great compromiser. You don't compromise with deaths. Squads and joe biden very very early on in the iran. Contra scandal came out and said basically that reagan probably should resign. Reagan gives this now infamous speech in which he says that at the time. I made these statements saying that we didn't transfer any arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me. That's true but the fact should the evidence tell me. It is not as the reagan gives this sort of logical gymnastics speech. Does it resume weapon resonates with joe biden. I take the president at his word that he did not know. I accept him at his word. So in one thousand nine hundred nineteen ninety-one it becomes clear that the united states is going to go to war against iraq. Joe biden starts raising holy hell in the us senate about the war powers resolution five get so furious during this battle with the white house and bush's utter disdain for congressional war powers that he takes it principled stand actually votes against the authorization and biden actually lives to regret that he didn't vote in favor of that war because it ended up being very popular and was helping to sort of boost the american morale in the post vietnam era aggression is defeated. The war is over by then. Almost overnight transforms into one of the most hawkish figures on iraq policy in the united states congress. He becomes a leading voice calling for the overthrow of the iraqi regime. Require guys like you in uniform to be back on foot in the desert taking the son of the Taking saddam down. And so what you see is biden emerging from one thousand nine hundred ninety s as an empire guy. Now in the case of the war in the former yugoslavia biden was a very early advocate of the us intervening militarily biden was among the first to call it a genocide in bosnia but at the same time biden also rejected notions that this is just a humanitarian cause biden would talk about it throughout the ninety s defending american prestige. We should go to belgrade and we should have japanese german style. Occupation of that country as biden is agitating trial for the united states. To be militarily involved in the former yugoslavia haitians in the united states are watching as a brutal junta death squads overthrow the democratically elected government of the leftist president. Jean bertrand aristide and biden gives an interview on. Charlie rose in which he basically says. Nobody cares about haiti in haiti. Just quietly sunk into the caribbean or rose up three hundred feet. It wouldn't matter a whole world. And he viewed the stakes in europe as something that the us could gain by getting involved. In the case of haiti it would've been purely humanitarian in nature and then the clinton administration immersed in the monica lewinsky scandal suddenly starts a series of wars and military actions biden supports all of them. He supports the bombing of a pharmaceutical factory in sudan. He supports bombing some farm in afghanistan. Where maybe osama bin laden had been recently when the fbi director comes to testify in front of congress. Joe biden is one of the senators who start saying. Can you clarify for me. What's the legality of assassination binding. Seems to get this. The problem with the idea that america can kill whomever it wants wherever it wants however at once then the nine eleven attacks happened and the simplest way to put it. Is that joe biden. Just support almost everything that the bush administration wants in the immediate aftermath biden. Not only votes in favor of the two thousand three invasion and occupation of iraq. He plays a key role in facilitating a war. Based on lies no matter how long it takes now as president joe biden is saying he's going to withdraw all. Us troops from afghanistan concluded that. It's time to and america's longest war. This doesn't mean that the war is going to completely end. When biden was vice. President biden wanted to use the very forces that actually are at the tip of the spear of assassination operations instead of the large scale troop deployment. What he's doing is finally getting the war waged the way he wanted it. Which is the cia special operations forces that are going to hunt down and kill the people that he determines our the enemy. If biden had become president twenty years ago. I think that it would have been easier to predict some of his future actions or policy behavior but because of his age because of the political moment that we're in i think there are some real wild cards in how biden is going to approach the world including on questions of war. That was a new video produced by intercept featuring jeremy scahill talking about his sweeping new investigative project empire politician about joe biden's foreign policy record over the past half century. Jeremy joins us after break. I am Oh key giant. I the end and Say no there's the and the strong vets that no less and the rest my head to nine so and info fox and dr williams the mercy of the fallen. This is democracy now democracy now dot. Org the quarantine report. I'm amy goodman juan gonzalez. By the way you can sign up for our daily news digest email by texting the word democracy now one word no space democracy now. Two six six eight six six. this is democracy now. As president biden prepares to address a joint session of congress. We're looking today at biden's foreign policy record both in his first ninety nine days in office and over the past five decades. We're joined by jeremy. Scahill co founder of the intercept where he's senior correspondent editor at large co founder. Jeremy is also the host of the podcast intercepted. He's just launched. This new remarkable project titled empire politician. A half century of joe biden stances on war militarism and the cia jeremy's author of several books including blackwater the rise of the world's most powerful mercenary army and dirty wars. The world is a battlefield. Also the name of his oscar-nominated film. Jeremy welcome back to democracy. Now it's great to have you with us. Why don't you just lay out big picture for us as you were doing in that Video what this project is doing. And then where how you see it fitting into what president biden represents today. Well amy first of all. Thank you for for having me on. Greetings to you one in the in the big picture if you study joe biden's history what you realize. Is that the history of joe biden particularly on matters of war The cia espionage the balance of power between the executive branch and the congressional branch questions of civil liberties. The history of joe biden is really the history of the evolution of the american empire in the from the vietnam war to the present And what i think is significant. Is that joe biden when he first ran for senate in one thousand nine hundred seventy two. Remarkably telegraphed what the sort of thrust of his argument about empire and war would be for the next fifty years and that was that joe biden was not a militant opponent of the vietnam war in fact he had great disdain for antiwar protesters. He tells a story about walking in his on his campus. When he's in law school at the height of the vietnam war with some of his colleagues and they see fellow students protesting against the vietnam war. They call them a holes biden. Says he wasn't big on flak jackets tie-dye and that he didn't really have any moral qualms about the vietnam war that his issue was that he thought it was based on lousy policy and was not executed in the correct manner and biden also really inflated his involvement which was almost non-existent in the civil rights movement of the nineteen sixties. He only later was forced to clarify that. He personally supported it but that he wasn't doing sit ins himself after he had made kind of more sweeping claims. So what what you see us. He starts his political career. Is that biden is not really part of the civil rights movement. He has great disdain for the antiwar movement but he thinks that the empire has made some mistakes in how it is extended itself in vietnam in particular. He gets elected to the senate. He's one of the youngest people in us history and the youngest in modern history at that time To to have been elected he he begins serving at age thirty years old and biden ends up on on a couple of crucial committees at a very crucial time in us history. The richard nixon administration was of course a lawless enterprise. You had not only the overt. Were in vietnam but you had secret components to the war in vietnam. You had the cia carrying out a spate of assassinations around the world conducting coups running guns. You know Cultivating assets were dictator's thugs gangsters criminals and and for the first time in a since the creation of the cia in the aftermath of world war two congress was finally getting around to To try to confront the cia and trying to impose restrictions and oversight of congress and biden ends up in two crucial roles on the one hand. He ends up being one of the senators studying war powers and that leads to a extremely important law getting past called the war powers resolution of nineteen. Seventy-three biden is a co-sponsor of that the nixon white house decides this is a grave threat to executive power and they veto it. And then the house ends up. Overriding the veto so the war powers resolution which says that the that the congress has the right to declare war not the president and puts restrictions on the president's ability to conduct military actions and certainly to the ploy american troops without consulting with congress on the other side biden was one of the people who helped to create the senate intelligence committee which would be the first congressional body that was going to have jurisdiction over a activities. And so amy. There is a two prong part of this history on the one hand biden seems to understand very well what richard nixon did during his time in office and very well how out of control. The cia was on the other hand biden as a new senator starts to get a taste for what it means to have access to power powerful people classified information and he develops this very complicated relationship with the cia of sort of in public being aggressive interrogator of the cia denouncing its secrecy and withholding of information from congress and on the on the other hand joe biden aids and abets the cia not only in pushing covert operations and and selling wars to biden senate colleagues but also aiding the cia in an emerging and continuing to this day war against whistleblowers and leakers. Wanted to ask you. Joe biden is unique among presidents. I guess since the post world war two era in terms of his understanding of how congress works. Because if you look at the previous presidents from nixon. Bill clinton george bush the second george bush. Jimmy carter. They all came into the white house as governors and herbert walker. Bush obviously had a long history in the cia becoming vice president. You'd have to go back to lyndon johnson to find a president who has actually knows how congress works knows how laws are passed knows how you reach agreements to get legislation. Passed but biden seems to suffer the same problem that johnson had johnson could pass great domestic policy but when it came to foreign policy whether it was vietnam or his invasion of the dominican republic and one thousand nine hundred. Sixty five was extremely hawkish in foreign policy. I'm merging your sense of of how you see biden moving forward in terms of the us expanding empire if it can be talked about as as a as a empire with possibilities of expansion. It's a great question. One and i'll i'll i'll just answer it by saying that. The the the white house is pushing as premier premiere issue on war regarding biden. This notion that biden is going to end the war in afghanistan. I think it's really important just for accuracy. Accuracy sake to recognize that the plan. That biden is implementing. Now was the plan that was developed by the trump administration. And it's basically the plan that was on biden's desk when he left office and when trump left office and so biden. Said you know. I would have done this differently. But agreements are agreements. The trump administration signed this agreement with the taliban. So we're going to abide by it. Now there are other policies were biden. Says we're not going to continue on with the path of trump. so he's playing a little bit with the notion that the us always keeps its agreement. But what i think is interesting one and it cuts to the heart of your question. Is that when when joe biden was vice president under barack obama there were a handful of of policy issues where biden sort of decided that he was in the opposition and he took a dissenting view. The first one was the first year of the obama biden administration obama's advisers many of them wanted to surge. Us troops in afghanistan and they ultimately did that they wanted to engage in the coin doctrine counterinsurgency which is another way of saying sort of nation building. That you have this large scale military deployment you set up your own infrastructure and you're basically running an occupation regime in a country Similar to what. The united states did in your in other european allies in europe in the aftermath of world. War two biden says. Well wait a minute. I don't like what i'm seeing here. I don't think we should be having large scale. Troop deployments i think we should use our assassins. Essentially the cia the joint special operations command in a small footprint to conduct anti-terrorism operations to hunt down people that we determine represent an ongoing threat to our national security alternately loses in part that argument because what happens is that obama decides to do both. He goes with a large scale surge and he starts escalating the use of drones. And not just in afghanistan as you know one But in many countries around the world and they basically empower the cia and the joint special operations command as really streamlined. Implementers of an emerging us assassination policy now that biden is president essentially he is getting the war waged the way he proposed back in two thousand and nine. He's he's going to pull out the large scale. Us military presence there are few thousand troops and sixteen thousand contractors that are on the ground there. But what he's saying is that he's gonna keep these teams in the region to do surgical strikes and the risk for biden is that he ends up in a scenario akin to what happened with president. Barack obama in two thousand fourteen where he actually has to redeploy. Us troops to iraq in the battle against isis after having declared the war over and initiated this made for television withdrawal from iraq in two thousand eleven so to wrap this up on. I think it's fascinating. That biden has spent his entire life reeling against executive overreach demanding that congress be in charge of declaring war and he may well be presented with a conflict around the world where it's going to really call the question on which joe biden shows up joe biden commander and chief or joe biden who spent most of the past fifty years as a senator demanding that congress be given its proper authority. I wanted to ask you about an another major foreign policy issue. That biden will deal with han. That's relations with china. There's a very interesting column in today's new york times by thomas friedman who is arguably was essential. What are the most influential. Can you hear me. yeah sorry. Thomas friedman's column in today's new york times he's arguably one of the most influential voices of the us. Neil liberal elite he and his columnists title is there a war coming between the us and china and he goes on to say what has made this return of chinese iranian and russian aggressive nationalism. Even more dangerous is that each country. It is married to state let industries particularly military industries and it's emerging at a time when america's democracy is weakening of course. He doesn't mention the united states is a major defence industry at how our state is is married to the our defense industry but he goes on to talk about taiwan as a major producer of the most advanced a chips in the world of four up in terms of artificial intelligence and he he goes on to say and as much as us strategists are committed to preserving taiwan's democracy there even more committed to ensuring that tsmc. The big chip maker in taiwan doesn't fall into china's hands. And because he goes on to say in a digitizing world he who controls the best chipmaker will control a lot it almost sounds like friedman is urging a biden two to draw a line on the issue of taiwan when the entire world has already recognized. Taiwan has historically in legitimately at part of china. Your sense of how biden will act when it comes to a relations with china. Well we just came off of an era under the trump administration where where you know over xenophobia and racism Became official us policy and the biden team is still implementing many of the sort of underlying principles of of the trump policy. If you will but doing it in a more diplomatic manner and what's what's always absent and this is certainly it was always absent from thomas friedman's columns for sure what is almost always absent from discussions about. Us relationship with china us relationship with russia is the us role in the world. There is no more hostile threatening powerful force in the world right now than the united states government and you always need to to look through the lens of how other nations are responding to the united states. You can't just say oh. China is aggressively pursuing. This technology or china is in countries throughout africa. Right now and pretend that it's some ominous development that a major world power with one seventh of the world's population would be interested in expanding. Its influence or securing. Its future all discussions about china all discussions about russia regarding us policy. Leave out the role that the united states plays in destabilizing the world but also provoking responses from other nations. Now having said that one. I think one of the areas to watch that does not get a great amount of attention is the way that the united states china and other world powers are battling for control of natural resources throughout africa. The united states has quietly over the past. Ten or fifteen years built up a kind of covert and semi over military presence in africa while also flooding the zone with a lot of private business and contractors china doing the exact same thing and in fact china because it is not bound by any laws requiring that it certify practices is is really taking control of large parts of several african nations natural resource supply and this cuts to the heart of technology precious metals an incredibly geo-strategical important location in the world. So i think that you're going to see a lot of pressure on biden to become much more belligerent. Much more hostile to china and the people that are pushing him to do that are going to completely ignore and minimize the role that the united states plays in provoking responses from other powerful nations. We're gonna break and then come back to this discussion. We're talking to jeremy scahill. The intercept senior correspondent editor large co founder. The new project with more than fifty articles across the intercept website empire politician. A half century of joe biden stances on war militarism in the cia. Stay with us a message by john carpenter and alan howarth. This is democracy now democracy now dot. Org the quarantine report. I'm amy goodman with one gonzalez. By the way you can watch listen and read transcripts using our ios and android apps. Download them for free from the apple app store or google play store today and you can get our daily news digest. Just text the word democracy now. Two six six eight six six. We're continuing our discussion with the intercept. Jeremy scahill who's just launched a massive new online investigative project titled empire politician a half century of joe biden stances on war militarism and the cia. I wanted to go to the one thousand nine hundred east germany and also talk about how that links to joe biden today in his address tonight. Has i addressed to the joint session of congress. It's expected he'll be mainly focusing on domestic policy. Their congress member alexandria ocasio. Cortez says that president biden is more progressive than many progressives expected. We're talking about his foreign policy so today in headlines we talked about a trial. That's going on in el salvador on the one thousand nine hundred eighty one l. Mazzotta massacre that horrifying massacre of around one thousand salvadorans nearly killed by the battalion which was a us train. Salvadoran military battalion One of the expert witnesses. Terry carl professor at stanford detailed the onsite presence of us. Military advisor bruce hazelwood and some of the pretrial testimony. This is extremely significant. What's happened back. Then and what's happening today. Also this goes to media. Criticism had bonner of the new york times writing eventually about this massacre and within months because of enormous pressure from the reagan administration a. m. rosenthal one of the chiefs at the new york times pulls him from covering central america because he's exposing what happened in el salvador. So you've got the us policy in el salvador. you've got the support for the contras in guatemala. What the us did in its support of the both military and the paramilitary death squads. And then you look at what's happening today with from that. Very area the number of immigrants who are fleeing north and the connection between immigration today and us policy and intervention of the one thousand nine hundred eighty s not to mention what's going on with venezuela with the biden administration saying they recognize us president not democratically elected leader. But in fact the person that both president trump and before that democrats also support it talk about the policy of yesteryear determining today and how in some ways that isn't changing and where you see openings important to to to say because this portion of history often doesn't get mentioned that that in terms of el salvador and us administrations. Jimmy carter will emerged even though he had campaigned on a pledge to sort of confront dictatorships and to respect human rights as the original supporter of the kuru regime. That took power in nineteen seventy nine and al salvador and the subsequent killing of protesters started this civil war and carter and particularly his national security advisers. Big new brzezinski believed that this is a communist menace or at least they said that it was and they said if we if we don't support the military regime and el salvador. We're going to end up with a sandinista styled government Cuba is going to run the deck on central and latin america. And you have a powerful voices in the catholic church. At such as archbishop romero of san salvador who himself was a conservative catholic until nineteen seventy nine coup takes place. He writes to jimmy carter pleading with him not to support the military junta and jimmy carter's administration ignored archbishop romero and facts big new brzezinski rights to the pope. Pope john paul the second and says essentially you need to shut oscar. Romero up he. He's starting to sound the communist and we've warned him about this well a month after archbishop romero rights to carter a personal letter pleading with him not to send weapons and huey attack helicopters to the junta oscar romero is assassinated shot through the heart while he was saying mass a month after he writes to jimmy carter. Joe biden at the time was a critic of the military junta in el salvador. Buddy also accepted the framework of the war against communism and biden could have become a really militant voice in especially as a catholic in overtly. Catholic politician could have really gone town on the fact that nuns catholic nuns including us citizens were being raped and murdered by what was effectively. A client state of the united states and eventually carter temporarily stops the aid to al salvador. And he is defeated in the election by reagan biden rights to reagan in a very polite manner. Saying i think we should maybe link are funding and arming of the salvadoran dictatorship to investigating the murders of american citizens. Carter on his way out. The door gives emergency resumption of military gear and weaponry and financing the salvadorian. Junta and reagan takes power. And then it's the gloves come off. And it's just a massive bloodshed in el salvador sponsored in part by the united states. And what you see is joe biden on the one hand denouncing the extrajudicial killings and murder and on the other hand trying to tinker on the edges of american policy. Proposing mister reagan. L. support financing this dictatorship or in the case of nicaragua. I can agree to support the contras. If we put this restriction on it or are we make sure that they only spend it in this way and i think that this was a crucial point of development for joe biden on questions of war. He almost never meets a war. He doesn't support and the one time he did oppose the war. In one thousand nine hundred one gulf war he regretted it and then immediately became an ultra-hawk after it but in the eighties biden was making deals on these really dirty questions of dictatorships and death squads and he played a significant role in terms of his position in the senate in not having a very clear line in the sand drawn. We don't support dictators. We support death. Squads biden help negotiate compromises with reagan rather than just militantly opposing it. And jeremy going back to those carter years. Could you talk about the When a carter named ted sorensen of the former kennedy adviser as cia director what happened and how biden function. There is a wild story. One so ted sorensen is nominated by jimmy director and the reason was carter had said he basically wanted to cut the budget of the cia rain. It in his campaign actually put out a position paper implying that jimmy carter intended to prosecute cia officers who engaged in lawless activities. So when when carter becomes president the cia is not excited to say the least and then carter nominates an outsider. Who happens to be a close friend of the kennedy family. Kennedy of course famously had his conflicts with the cia. So ted sorensen is is introduced. Joe biden as the person who's got a kind of shepherd through the confirmation process in front of the intelligence committee and says ted sorensen. I'm more enthusiastic about you than any other. Nominee in the carter emerging carter white house. Joe biden those starts talking with senate republicans who wanted to kill the ted sorensen nomination for a number of reasons one. Because the didn't want him there. He was a cia outsider. None of the spooks at the agency. Wanted ted sorensen to be implementing jimmy. Carter's agenda to there. Was this sort of whisper campaign. That ted sorensen was a pacifist who had resisted the korean war and three ted sorensen was one of the people involved with the aftermath of the chappaquiddick incident. Where teddy kennedy was drunk and drove off a bridge resulting in the death of a of a young woman but biden is sort of like playing defense for the for the carter white house at the time and trying to resolve. Those issues and biden is tipped off by a republican colleague. That ted sorensen had given had a written affidavit. In support of daniel ellsberg during the pentagon papers prosecution where ellsberg was facing more than a century in prison under the espionage act and biden gets wind of this. He gets one of his staffers to go and dig up. This affidavit which wasn't even officially filed so they add to like you know really dig deep defined. Ted sorensen's affidavit. And what that affidavit said. One was basically everybody in washington leaks. This is the culture of the elite. Here ted sorenson also said. I took government documents home. When i was writing my biography. Kennedy this is a common practice and by the way many of the things that elite washington insiders are leaking to the new york times and the washington post for their own. Reasons are far more sensitive than what daniel ellsberg leaked in the pentagon papers. Well biden hits the roof on this and he starts saying to jimmy carter. This nomination is dead. And at the end of the day. Joe biden publicly says of ted sorensen when he kills his nomination with the republicans. You know what we should do with you. It's maybe you should even be prosecuted under the espionage. Act yourself he says. About ted sorensen for ted sorensen's crime of stating an open secret that you know. Government officials take home government documents and at the time were leaking them for their own political purposes. That one then kicks off this relationship between biden and the cia where biden becomes one of the most aggressive senators in trying to go after leakers and whistleblowers particularly when philip agee comes out the former i. Operative and blow the whistle on covert operations around the world. Joe biden secretly aids the cia in pressuring the justice department to not only go after leakers and whistleblowers but to go after defense lawyers representing whistle blowers are leakers who are putting in requests for documents as part of their defense joe biden sponsors legislation to stop this practice of what they called grey mailing. Basically what biden was saying is when we arrest leakers or whistleblowers. Their lawyers are then requesting in discovery. All these documents from the us government about the operations that they were a part of and this could expose further secrets so biden played a crucial role in trying to create rules for federal whistleblower cases. We're defense lawyers. Were not allowed to subpoena documents. That would assist them. In the defense of their whistle blower or leaker clients biden also goes on even though he tries to kill reagan's nominee for directory to kill the nomination of william casey william casey. Of course one of the most infamous notorious spies in american history and biden had his number biden. Basically said these. Reagan people want to undo everything we did in the of richard nixon. They wanna get rid of the war powers act. They want to circumvent the intelligence committees. And william twenty seconds. And william. casey is is a key player in this. So biden tries to kill it unsuccessful. Votes casey and then aids in a bats reagan's in pushing covert action including defending the one thousand nine hundred three invasion of grenada so biden at a very complicated relationship with the cia and his war. Against whistle blowers endures to this day. Well germay congratulations on this massive project that has just been posted at the intercept and thanks for the exclusive use of running that video at the beginning which people can watch The intercept senior correspondent editor at large co founder and host of the podcast intercept. The new project empire politician. A half century of joe biden stances on war militarism and the cia. Jeremy scahill our guest for the hour. Obvious speaking with daniel ellsberg and at snowden saturday. I'm amy goodman with one kansallis.
Democracy Now! 2020-07-23 Thursday
"From New York. This is democracy now. This bloodshed must end. This bloodshed will end. Today I'm announcing a surge federal law enforcement into American. Communities plagued by violent crime. President trump is sending a surge of federal agents into democratic cities with protests against police, violence and racism. We'll go to Philadelphia to speak with district attorney. Larry Krassner who's warning hill arrest agents if they kidnap were attack protesters then to Chicago where protesters are demanding justice. After police officers punch teenage activists, miracle boy in the face, knocking out her teeth during protests when people were trying to topple statue of Christopher Columbus. There's no way. Protests Ruth and better for exercising my freedom of speech, freedom put simple discussed in never would have ever thought I'd become victim to the biggest gang in America and harrowing scenes of paramilitary style units in the streets of American cities, shocked mainstream America, but the violent presence of federal border agents is not unfamiliar to many black and Brown communities, especially those along the border. The Border Patrol. Is it does patrol the border, not only just the boundary line, but in one hundred miler fictions with extra constitutional powers meaning that the border patrol. Can do things above and beyond what normal law enforcement can do, they can put up checkpoints. They do roving patrols. pullover people for you know reasons of the not even national security reasons. We'll speak with Todd Miller documents all of this in his book empire of borders the expansion of the US border around the world I with. Professor Cecilia. Originally from El Salvador, who lives this all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now, democracy now dot org. The quarantine report I'm amy. Goodman president trump has announced he's sending quote. Surge of federal officers into Chicago Albuquerque and other large Democrat run cities, claiming it's needed to combat a rise in crime. I am announcing that the Department of Justice will immediately surge federal law enforcement. To the city of Chicago. The FBI ATF DA US Marshal, service and homeland security will together be sending hundreds of skilled law enforcement officers to Chicago. To help drive down violent crime. Trump's announcement came as he faces increasing criticism for deploying paramilitary style units to Portland. Oregon, where unidentified federal officers have attacked anti-racist protesters, and even snatched activists off the streets and unmarked vans. The Portland City Council has voted to end cooperation between local police and federal law enforcement on Wednesday night, federal forces fired tear gas at protesters once again among those hit was Portland Mayor. Ted Wheeler, who also serves as Portland's police commissioner. Meanwhile, the American Civil Liberties Union has sued the. The Department of Homeland Security US Marshal Service as well as the city of Portland for attacking medics, while they care for injured protesters for a second day in a row, the United States reported more than a thousand covid nineteen deaths Wednesday the New, York Times reports nearly sixty thousand people are now hospitalized for covid nineteen across the country, nearly eclipsing the number of hospitalizations during the peak of the pandemic and April California's set new single day records Wednesday for cases and hospitalizations. Hospitalizations the US death toll has now topped one hundred, forty, three, thousand with the total number of confirmed cases, approaching four million, the governors of Indiana, Minnesota and Ohio. All announced new orders, requiring residents to wear masks in public, meanwhile, a number of large businesses including Cosco Walmart Winn. Dixie and Ho. Foods are now requiring customers to wear masks on Wednesday. The trump administration awarded a two billion dollar contract with Pfizer and a German partner to make hundred million doses of A. A cove in nineteen vaccine that's still being tested president trump held another televised corona virus briefing Wednesday where he falsely claimed children don't transmit the virus. Trump conducted the briefing alone. Anthony FAUCI director of the national. Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases was not invited to the briefing, but he will make a public appearance later today he will throw out the first pitch at the Washington nationals opening game major. League Baseball's beginning shortened season today. Games will be played in empty. BALLPARK's. Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell's expected to unveil a new one trillion dollar cove nineteen relief package today the deal includes a new round of stimulus check sixteen billion dollars in new funding for Covid, nineteen testing and seventy billion dollars for K. to twelve schools under the deal, the trump administration will also spend nine billion dollars already allocated for testing that the administration has not yet used despite widespread shortages in many states. It remains unclear. Republican lawmakers will support extending a program that's given unemployed workers, an extra six hundred dollars in weekly jobless benefits. The number of Global Cova. Cases has now top fifteen million on Wednesday. Brazil set a new single day record with nearly sixty eight thousand new cases and almost thirteen hundred deaths Brazil's precedent share. Bolsonaro has extended his two week quarantine after testing positive twice for the corona virus, meanwhile, one of Brazil's most influential indigenous leaders are Retana Yawalapiti is in an intensive care unit, being treated for covid nineteen in South Africa nearly six hundred people died from the virus. Virus on Wednesday, a new single day high India's also set a new record with nearly forty six thousand new cases over the past twenty four hours, the overall death toll in India's now approaching thirty thousand in Guatemala public, health officials are reporting covid nineteen spreading inside one of the nation's largest public hospitals, overcrowding is causing noncovic patients to come into contact with infected patients. Meanwhile in Israel thirty four people arrested earlier this week. During ongoing protests against Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's handling of the coronavirus, pandemic and corruption. This comes as the United Nations warns Israel's threat to annex parts of the West. Bank has hindered Palestinian efforts to control the pandemic the United Nations envoy made the remarks a day after Israeli authorities demolished a corona virus testing center in the city of Hebron. Immigration is a federal judge. Wednesday denied pleased to release immigrant families imprisoned at three ice. Family detention centers. That's immigration customs enforcement in Texas, in Pennsylvania despite concerns over rising Karuna virus infections. This comes as a separate federal judge has given ice until July twenty seven to release children from these jails, prompting fears that families will once again be separated in related news. The Associated Press reports the trump administration has been detaining immigrant children and toddlers, and as one year old in hotels sometimes. Sometimes for weeks at a time, then deporting them immigrant rights, attorneys say this violates federal anti, human trafficking laws that demand unaccompanied immigrant children be sent to government. Shelters are place with sponsors. A private contractor working with ice has reportedly been taking children to three Hampton, Inn and suites hotels in Arizona and at the Texas Mexico border. The hotels have reportedly been used at least two hundred times. In Canada a federal court has ruled an asylum agreement with the United States is invalid saying the US violates the human rights of refugees. The SAFE Third Country Agreement between Canada and the US was established in two thousand four, and it required. Refugees seek asylum in the first safe country. They reached and their journey refugees arriving in the United States to the US Canada. Border were often turned away and forced to go back to the US to apply for asylum. Their attorneys and refugees, seeking refuge and Canada have long argued the US is. Is No longer safe for asylum seekers in more immigration state senators New York have passed the protect our courts act. The bill aims to bar, immigration and customs enforcement agents from making arrests inside courthouses without a judicial warrant on Capitol Hill. The Democratic led House passed the no Ban Act on Wednesday. The legislation authored by congresswoman on Omar aims to reversal versions of president. Trump's travel bans that target many predominantly Muslim countries. The House also approved a bill to remove confederate statues from the US. Capital Seventy two Republicans joined Democrats to approve the measure. The House also passed by partisan measure to allocate nine hundred million dollars a year to acquire and preserve more land for public use, and to spend nine and a half billion dollars on the US national parks over the next five years the National Wildlife Federation described the Great American outdoors act is the most significant investment in conservation in decades, meanwhile in the Senate Vermont Democrat Patrick Layhee has introduced the John Lewis voting rights advancement. A bill to restore the landmark voting rights act. The House has already approved similar legislation. The self-described anti-feminist attorney who suspected of ambushing the home of a federal judge in new, Jersey and killing her son has been linked to the recent murder of Mark Angel. Men's rights attorney in California who was shot dead on July, eleventh the suspect in both cases Roy den, Hollander was found Gavin. Apparent self inflicted gunshot wound after he attacked the home of Judge Esther Solace the first Latina federal judge in New Jersey appointed in two thousand eleven. Solace was not injured in the attack, but her son was killed. Her husband critically injured. In Afghanistan local authorities are reporting. Forty five people were killed including at least eight civilians in a series of air strikes in eastern Afghanistan. The strikes reportedly targeted Taleban fighters. Charles Evers the brother of Medgar. Evers has died at the age of ninety seven. In one thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, three Charles Evers became the Mississippi Field Director of the end of Lacey Pe-. Taking the post held by his brother who was assassinated by a white supremacist. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, nine Charles Evers was elected mayor of becoming the first African American mayor in Mississippi since reconstruction. And the South African Anti-apartheid. Andrew Lung and they has died at the age of ninety five in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, four, he was sentenced to life in prison alongside Nelson, Mandela and six others during the infamous Rivonia Trial, he served twenty six years in prison much of it at Robben Island in two thousand thirteen. He spoke Mandela's funeral. A. Letting. Within. For. This And there's just some of the headlines. This is democracy now. Democracy now dot org the quarantine report. I mean Goodman in New York with Nermeen Shea Heiner main. Good Morning Amy and welcome to our listeners and viewers around the country, and around the world will president trump has announced Wednesday he sending a surge of federal agents into Chicago Albuquerque and other Democrat run cities to crack down on black lives matter protests, claiming the move is necessary to combat a rise in crime. This is trump speaking this week. In New York and Chicago and Philadelphia Detroit. And Baltimore. And all of these Oakland is mess. We're not gonNA. Let this happen in our country. All run by Liberal Democrats do this comes as the president faces increasing criticism for deploying paramilitary style units to Portland Oregon where unidentified federal officers have attacked anti-racist protesters, and even snatched activists off the streets and. Vans on Wednesday night, federal forces fired tear gas at protesters. Once again. Among those hit. Was Portland Mayor Ted. Wheeler who also serves as Portland Police Commissioner Portland City Council voted to end cooperation between local police and federal law enforcement and the American civil liberties. Union is now suing the Department of Homeland Security. US Marshal Service as well as the city of Portland for tacking medics while they cared for injured protesters, trump has responded by saying federal agents are doing a fantastic job and is now threatening to deploy them across the country. Now in a remarkable statement, the Philadelphia District Attorney has warned trump's police forces that he will criminally charge them if they bring these same tactics to Philadelphia da Larry Crasner. The statement, Wednesday that quote my dad volunteered and served in World War Two to fight fascism like most of my uncle, so we would not have an American president, brutalizing and kidnapping Americans for exercising their constitutional rights and trying to make America a better place, which is what patriots do anyone including federal law enforcement unlawfully assaults and kidnaps. People will face criminal charges from my. Again the words of Larry Krassner the District Attorney of Philadelphia who joins us now from Philadelphia for Moore da Larry Krassner. Thank you for joining us. Can you explain how exactly plan to arrest federal agents? And what actions do you feel would warrant that? Morning first of all we do not plan to arrest anyone we plan. We plan for people to obey the law, so if any federal authorities to come to Philadelphia and followed on, follow the Constitution. The issue will not present, which is certainly what we all hope, but it's real simple. The law applies to the president of the United States, even though he doesn't think so, the law applies to law enforcement. The law applies to civilians I. Mean it is real simple. We have to be even handed so if people are going to come to Philadelphia and in uniform, they're gonNA fracture the skulls of protesters. Protesters with rubber bullets. They're gonNA jump out rental vans in drag people into those vans without probable cause, they are committing crimes under the Pennsylvania statutes. These are Pennsylvania offenses over which the district attorney in Philly has jurisdiction over that area, and we can bring those charges the laws very clear we can proceed with those charges in State Court under certain circumstances they might end up being processed in federal court, but initially we can bring those charges. We can pursue them and as much as possible. We can put those individuals in front of Philadelphia Jury. Who might have something to say about those tactics? Well I mean the question is. Does the President even have the legal authority to deploy a federal officers on the streets of Philadelphia irrespective of what they do a Cornell University? Constitutional Law Professor Michael Dorf, said that federal authorities coming into states like this without the cooperation of state and local authorities. is quote extraordinary outside the context of civil war? Larry Krosno your response. So there you know there are certain kinds of overlapping jurisdiction. A couple of classic ones are over drug offenses over gun offenses, and there are collaborations between state and federal law enforcement. Go on all the time. In fact, they are happening in my office right now. Many different investigations, but there's also a long standing sort of protocol to this, in which you inform each other what you're doing some of the time. One of the one of the prosecutorial entities or police entities gets out of the way so as not to trip over. That's not what we're seeing here. What we are seeing here is a who knows what because it's Donald. Trump, who knows what entity is gonNA show up in what uniform to do. What and what we are seeing, absolutely no interest in collaboration, but I think it's very important not to overstate what's really happening here when? The president talks about how he's going to take over cities really. Is that what you're GONNA do in Chicago, twelve thousand five hundred active police officers. The last number I heard coming from the president was he was going to send one hundred fifty federal. Agents of some sort really wow, that's one percent that is one percent of the normal police force in Chicago, so we should not lose sight of the reality. That Donald Trump always does is he's got some shiny object that he's. He's shining over here and he wants us to pay attention to it because he's doing some dirt in some other location here. He obviously is doing a pretty effective job trying to distract from his incredible failures, including his failures with pandemic and with the economy at this point. So we, it remains to be seen what exactly he'll do. Anything in Philadelphia remains to be seen to what extent this is all fluff. Obviously, there have been some pretty terrible things that have happened in Portland that appear without perfect information, because I don't have perfect information, but they appear to be illegal and blatantly so. All I can say is if. Federal authorities want to come to Philadelphia and break the law than they will face the law like everyone else ea crasner. Can you talk about your family's history? And would you say that president trump's move calling for a surge of these federal agents throughout the country particularly in democratic cities. Would you call? President trump fascist. I would say president. Trump is definitely a wannabe fascist. I'm not sure you can spell the word, but he definitely is someone who's in love with with dictators. He's in love with authoritarianism brutality, racism division hate. His playbook is essentially the same playbook as the white supremacist playbook with. As we see with the proud boys. The boulou movement all this kind of stuff. We see that they are trying to take advantage of the peaceful protests, which is is the vast majority of what it is around, George Floyd to become agent provocateurs to get into it and to cause violence. That wouldn't have been there otherwise so once they have caused it. They can say look at these. People look at what these black people do or look at what these left-wing people do. They're not doing. A proud boys are doing it. The blue crew are doing it because they have repeatedly stated. Stated they're looking to have a second civil war as absurd as that may all sound. It's the same tactic that we're seeing with Donald trump right now. We have cities that have not had unrest that have not had an uprising four weeks. The only thing that's been happening in Philly four weeks has been a moderate amount of peaceful protests and yet the president is announcing to the nation that filled out of control. No, it's not I'm here. I live there place commissioners here. We all see what's going on. There is no problem there is no crisis that would in any way require. Federal intervention, but once again if he sends troops of. Federal Ages of some sort in here to stir things up to requisition people to beat people up eighty cents, and he's going to cause unrest, so what I'm saying is he is acting as an agent provocateur by using his authority to send people in, and what is the real purpose of this from his perspective with probably not a second civil war. Is He's much more shortsighted narcissistic than that. His real purpose is to distract from his dismal record. The fact that his campaign is dropping like a stone in terms of family history you know. I mean it's just we have a lot of people, or they're all almost all past now, but we have a lot of people family who were of an age that they volunteered, and they served in World War Two my dad served in the Pacific on a Pacific island at an airbase I had. An uncle who was in Germany, he was an artillery spotter. Which is one lousy job to have because you're in between both sides, watching the shells that have been fired from both sides, and hopefully they don't land on you. That's a tough thing to do. I had another one who lost most of his hearing serving on a navy vessel and going a little further than that if you look. Look to my wife's side of the family. Her father was career military. He was not in World War Two, but he flew planes in a couple of different wars, and eventually ended up being a pilot foreign ambassador to Afghanistan. Which is where my wife lived when she was young. Show, so we go way back when it comes to this. That's not to say we're any different or any better. But we have someone here who did military service not because he was a conscientious of conscientious objector, but because he's entitled privileged, cowardly and Lazy. We have this person pretending to be some kind of be fascist, and it is intolerable. This is nothing that we can accept. In the United, States Larry Crasner one ask you about the people still locked up and Philadelphia's jails, despite the higher risk of contracting covid. Most of them are waiting for their day in court, which has been disrupted due to the spread of the virus. Many bail eligible. The Philadelphia community bail fund has been actively bailing people out. During this time, some activists have focused in particular on young people who are still imprisoned. This is a member of the youth art and self empowerment project named Brianna describing what it was like when her juvenile son was recently incarcerated during covert. I were. A worried about. Is, he eating is he sees? Is he cold? I also couldn't see my son. Because of covert maintain, which made it even worse, so there was fourteen days. That I only had a phone conversation with my son, there were no hugs. There were kisses. Da Larry Crasner. Do you think there are people locked up right now? Who should not be given? The health risks? What is your office doing to release more people? From what have been called deathtraps? I'm looking at an ad by the Philadelphia community bail. Funday said DA, Larry Crasner! Drop the charges, not your knee. They said charge more than four hundred people. In the last two days of protests. This was in the last week's kept over one hundred black youth in detention during Cova, incarcerated thousands of black Philadelphians cages at risk of death during Cova. Can you respond to these? Accusations criticisms said against you. Well you know the the problem with a lot of criticisms is completely out of context, and frankly cynically out of context. The when we came into office, we were coming off of a city that had ten thousand people and county custody. We started with sixty five hundred. We knocked it down to about five thousand within a year and a half, which was the quickest progress towards decoloration, essentially in the history of the city, and we are currently at four thousand. This is the lowest rate of incarceration in Philadelphia since the about nineteen eighty, five, nineteen, eighty five and we have gotten there through a lot of extremely diligent and careful work, but. I won't be misleading you if I told you thought that. People who were accused of murdering four people should be out of custody. They should not. They should be in custody before they killed five people and I'm not making that up. We have someone sitting there. Literally was a contract killer and who is associated with four different murders. We have someone else associated with five once again. You know. Let's talk about the juvenile's. When we came in, there were about six hundred fifty miles in custody, which was lower than it had been in the past. There's now on the it changes every day of course, but there's now something like one hundred and forty. It is not enough simply to say someone is juvenile. That juvenile has paralyzed another juvenile by shooting him in the back of the head behind a dumpster. There is a role that has. Has To be played by the state in order to make sure that we do not have the slaughter of people on the street, so I do not have any reservation about saying that there are some people who need to be in custody, even under these circumstances, but this office working closely with the Public Defender's office has done a remarkable job of diminishing the harm that could have come from Philadelphia's jails, becoming a an epicenter. They have not become that. We have experienced based on my limited information. We've experienced total two deaths among the inmate. Population I believe two deaths among the staff population, but as we compare that to national averages, a lot of the extremely hard work that we have done that we're continuing to do has paid off. It's a real problem I mean. I'M NOT GONNA kids. It's a real problem in the city where ordinarily you have one hundred new. New, criminal cases a day that there's no easy exit door to the jail because the courts are closed, they've been closed for months and it does not look like they're going to open up quickly. But all all things considered when we are objective and fair about it I think we've actually done an excellent job of keeping this population down of being very surgical about which individuals need to be in custody of. I also think it is fair to say that. I'm not going to get specific with which bail fund, but there's one of these bail phones that took a young man who had no prior record, and was racking up one drug case after another in a very short period of time in a way that anyone experiencing criminal justice would say signifies that this person needs to be held custody. Needs an intervention, but once again the bail fund. You know went charging in paid that person's bail. He came out and was killed on a corner shortly thereafter, he was on the corner because the bail fund, even though this young man who was only eighteen and a half. When it started head collected six consecutive drug cases in a very short period time they ran and paid his bail got him at the last time. We've seen another case. It was a domestic violence case where the defendant had. Viciously harmed is long term partner in a number of different states been convicted for it, and over the objection of the DA's office who were trying to protect her bail fund looked at none of that ran and paid it. And she then suffered a terrible sexual saw at the hands of the same person, so it is not the case that every single person should get out all of the time. It is not the case that simply saying no matter what the offense. No matter what the record. No matter what the circumstances everyone should get out. The life of that woman mattered the life of that young man who's bail was paid and died. Matter it all matters, and we have to be careful about these things before we go I wanted to ask you about when the average Jamal one of the most recognized cases and Philadelphia history one of the least known facts of the case. IS THAT MIA? Mia was nearly beaten to death at the crime scene. Within weeks of the end of the trial, a third of the police involved in this case were jailed for systematically tampering with evidence obtained convictions in cases across Philadelphia at least one police officer. In the case, James Forbes lied on the stand, saying he'd properly handled guns. What are the recourses for dressing police corruption both in Mumia abu-jamal case, and that of so many in which police were jailed for wrongdoing, but the victims remained in jail. Some Say Philadelphia has a history of cases like this. I asked you about Mumia, abu-jamal, when you're running for DA or now in for three years I'm what's happening in his case. So in terms of the broader question about corruption, one of the things that my office has done is we've established a police misconduct database. You might call it a list, but it's really a lot better than that. In which we have consistent with our constitutional obligation to give the defense all the information. They're entitled to including information that may be used by the defense to try. Try to defeat lowercase as prosecutors. What happens is we keep data? We keep information whether it in his findings by police of lying or brutality, or it's a police officer, having been charged with a crime in a different county, or it may even be a judge, having made a decision that a particular police officer light, or could be you know postings on facebook that show bias. Towards any particular group, we keep all of that information, and because it's a database. As soon as a new case comes into the system involving that officer, the information automatically is is connected to the case, and is then appropriately provided to defense. That's never been done in Philadelphia before. It is a relatively high tech, and we think excellent solution, and it's also fair to the police because they are notified that. That there on this database given the opportunity to come in and explain why it may be biased, and the truth is sometimes it is because internal affairs is political and as biased as anything else at certain times in certain cases so that you know that's part of what we've done. We have exonerated at this point. Fourteen people and we've been in office for about twenty six months. It is a sea-change from. That came before. And included on our police misconduct database, there are certain individuals. Who are categorized as ordinarily people we will not call. We will not call testify because we do not trust their integrity. There are other people who are less typical situation as for Mumia Abu Jamal that is in about the fortieth year of its litigation. We have some things going on very actively. In that case, we take that case, no more and no less seriously than. Than every other case, because of the notoriety about it, one of the things that I've certain certainly seen in our work around exoneration and conviction. Integrity is I've seen that. Often. The unfinished people get a whole lot less attention than the famous people, but what I can say in that regard is pending. There are certain restrictions on what we should appropriately say at this time. But it does. It is a microcosm of the realities of what progressive prosecutors face now when they're trying to go back in time and do justice when they're trying to do justice moving forward when they're trying to comply with their obligations to give exculpatory information in a culture that used to shred and used to hide and used to destroy a culture that I experienced for almost. Almost thirty years as a criminal defense and civil rights attorney Larry Crasner WanNa thank you for being with US District Attorney in Philadelphia next we go to Chicago where trump is saying, he's sending. A surge of federal agents will look out. Protesters are demanding justice. After police officers punched out the teeth of an eighteen year old activists, miracle buoyed stay with us. Human on my show, what is looking like patriarch? In another car. Gone. She wanted. The baby just might say I know Audrey Mobley a same everything what allows tweets all caps? Is that a foul hud? Mess and another one. And another send bag quiet as a church mouse basement studio when duty calls to get the first south, I guess they eat or heard now. Wow look at him go. He was out so right about me. You WanNa. World is a smokes on his people entries when George was begging for mother, saying to breed thoughts right about me. Another one goal. Longer Listen A. Little, did I know all my reading of be? Bother is transforming the murder. In this all he can can offer it, and it's all your receive. Distract from the Kabul organizers talking abolishing the police in this new world order we democratizing Amazon. The bank the. I'm a new vanguard. Gaming, on my shoulders looking like patriotic. Ceiling them bleach and another car bow, my house gone, but Tony Body Body Auto Life. She wanted the baby just take. I dream all black same everything what allows all caps? Is that eight foul? And another one call. Listen and Song Thirty Three by Chicago. Musician no-name. This is democracy now. The quarantine report I'm amy. Goodman with Nermeen Shea. We go now to Chicago where protesters are demanding justice. After police officers attacked a teenage activists last week, turn demonstration in which people attempted to topple a statue of Christopher Columbus Grant Park and officer punched eighteen year old Miracle Boyd in the face, knocking out several teeth, miracles, recent high school, graduate and organizer with the Group Good Kids Mad City Journal also reported being mistreated by police who use chemical sprays and batons on protesters. Police said twelve people were arrested. This is miracle buoyed speaking at a news conference Monday. By. Who by a supreme, a statue of my life safety and well being Christopher Columbus didn't. Discover. Could. He wasn't right base. And colonized. The groundwork for indigenous genocide as the Trans Atlantic slave trade of African yet the police is protecting a statue of a man who died more than five hundred years ago. The police are not serving protect. There was no way I left a protest, bruised and better for exercising freedom of speech freedom to simple I am disgusted and never would have ever thought I become a victim to the biggest gang in America. That's miracle buoyed speaking at a news conference on Monday. This comes as president. Trump announced. He's sending a surge of federal agents into Chicago. Mayor Lori lightfoot responded on CNN. We. Do not want unconstitutional secret federal agents coming into our cities, grabbing residents and detaining them and violating the rights. I've drawn a very bright line there and we're not gonNA go back from that. For more we. Go to Chicago to speak with Shila Betty professor of law at Northwestern University. She is the lawyer representing Miracle Boyd. Professor Betty thanks so much for joining us. Can you start off before we talk about the surge? In talking about what exactly happened to miracle? Thank you so much for having me a miracle. Boyd is a an activist, a freedom fighter. She works for an organization called good kids mad city that really focuses on ending violence in the South West sides of Chicago and Michael was at the protest on Friday and shoes doing what she does. Which is a documenting police violence trying to ensure that the that the protest was going to occur without some of the violence that we've seen consistently during the uprisings in Chicago, she was filming the arrest of a man. And an officer came up to her and and slapped her because she was filming this arrest and slapped with such force that her front teeth were knocked out of her head. And this is consistent with what we've seen from the Chicago Police Department over the last three months in their response to these uprisings. And she led the. Could you explain that in a Chicago head strikes like the one American Boyd was subject to are considered a use of lethal force. In, CHICAGO! So. Could you talk about that? And what the implications of that are? And what exactly it is that Miracle Boyd is calling for a restorative justice. Explain what what she'd like to see happen. Sure so the city of Chicago is subject to federal consent decree, and the the decree makes clear that head strikes, which is where police officers are using force to the head. Area is a form of of lethal force. It's a it's A. It's a form. Of course. This should only be used when lethal force can be justified so if you're dealing with somebody. WHO's suspected of a violent felony if you're dealing with somebody who? Is An immediate threat. To a police officer or to somebody else that of course is not miracle, Boyd, but what we've seen throughout these protests, police officers using that kind of lethal force against protesters in an effort to try to quell the movement in an effort. To retaliate against protestors for the exercise of their of their First Amendment speech What miracle is calling for at this time is for the officer to be fired. The videotape is very clear. Miracle was not a threat. Miracle is exercising her. First Amendment this officer came up to her in use this lethal force against Sharon retaliation for the exercise of her first. First, amendment rights I'm the only thing that miracles is asking for us for this officer to engage in a restorative justice process. She's not asking for the officer to be charged. She's asking for the officer to engage in a process where she can really explain to him what this has done to her. What this violence is under house affected her the trauma that. She is she's experiencing, so so that's. That's her her demand of this officer at this time. And now if you can respond to. What president trump is saying he's doing in Chicago. Looks like he's particularly focusing, and he's clearly said you know democratic mayors particularly focusing on cities that have mayors who are women and women of color. No no question about that. During a Donald Trump's comments yesterday, he made it very clear that this action was about quelling the movement on this action was about specifically taking on the activist who called for defunding the police? And that he's tying inter communal violence to those demands, which is just not supported by data, not supported. By the facts. It is also very clear that this request for the federal troops to come into. Chicago was supported by the Chicago Police Union. The police in Chicago have a long history of cooperating with the federal government. To violate the rights of people in the Chicago. Community there's there's a real concern that that that is what has happened here that the deployment of these of these troops are, but that's been done to try to quell these protests. And and that's unconstitutional, and that's something that that will absolutely be challenged in court. The issue that we have right now is the Chicago Police Department has systematically attempted to chill. The First Amendment Rights of of protesters, and that has been happening on a regular basis been happening in a very systematic way I'm the overlay of of additional federal troops is deeply disturbing and what that might mean for for for these protests. Chill, Betty! We're GONNA. Thank you for being with us so just to answer in a word. You're suing on behalf of Miracle Boy. Miracle Boyd will be filing a civil rights that's. Shila Betty professor of Law Northwestern University lawyer representing Miracle Buoyed. When we come back, they harrowing scenes paramilitary style units in the streets American. Cities may shock mainstream America, but the violent presence of federal border agents is not unfamiliar to many black and Brown communities. Stay with us. Win Me. Could've been me you. A. Know? This. Punto. Gouda. Justice by three sacred souls. This is democracy now. The quarantine report I mean he goodman with nermeen shake. We turn now to the harrowing scenes. A paramilitary style units in the streets of American cities like Portland may be like Portland Oregon where heavily armed federal agents with no agency markings have snatched people off the streets force them into unmarked vans. The developments have shocked mainstream America this is MSNBC NBC hosts Brian Williams. Overseas if we saw these pictures, we call it something like a a military junta. Seleny or a Pinochet, we would make nothing of it. It would just be a Wednesday. Just be Wednesday, but the violent presence, a federal border agents is not unfamiliar to many black and Brown Americans. Especially those who live along the border, the brutality now seen on us. Streets is also old to recognizable to global communities who face the terror of US trained military forces, sometimes death squads from Iraq to Kenya Tamala the scene unfolding in Portland Oregon has also drawn comparisons to US backed death squads terrorized Latin America for decades for more. We're joined by two guests. Cecilia Manhattan are. Are is a professor of sociology at the University of California Los Angeles. Ucla where she focuses on stayed in gender based violence in Central American immigration enforcement in the US originally from El Salvador also with us. reporter Tog Miller who's covered border security immigration for over a decade as the author of empire of borders, the expansion of the US border around the world, also author of Border Patrol. Nation dispatches from the front lines of Homeland Security. We welcome you both to democracy now. Professor, many Var let's begin with you. If you can respond to what's happening in Portland. Oregon as you heard Brian. Williams say I, mean this may be to others. He talked to Chile talked about Mussolini but here in America. You know a different picture of this country, and also back to where you came from in El Salvador intimately connected to the United States especially in the nineteen eighties, sadly through soldiers, often US trained soldiers carrying weapons that might come from the United States. But? Yes, thank you, thank you for. The questions because what is happening in Portman and probably in other cities in the United States. was as Brian Williams said. The order of the day for most of Latin America during the nineteen seventies and eighties, and for instance, the the image of an unmarked van, taking people from the streets and taking them who knows where is it? Brings Back Memories to Latin Americans who lived through disappearances of families and friends and co-workers for a long period of time. So this is this is something very familiar, very. Very close to? Two. Member to let them the minutes throughout the region because these. Are Strategies of state, violence and state control that. Implemented throughout region during the military dictatorships of the seventies and eighties. But I'd like to bring taunt. Miller into the conversation. Todd, you are the author of a book called Empire of borders, the expansion of the US border around the world. So could you talk about that? Specific your subtitle, the expansion of the US border around the world and then specifically. How the role of the CB P. changed after nine eleven. Sure. One. In terms of the expansion of the US border around the world? I. Even thinking specifically about the specific force of you, that was in Portland than with the more TAC unit of the US border was pulling people off off the streets. Over over the years I've met during my Doing research have had you know have come across them on several occasions. More than one occasion was in Guatemala and I was going to a military base to meet with the commander of new of new border. Patrol Force Avera forming their and my whole purpose of going there was was to to See how much the United States was behind that. The you know the creation of that border for since I got there late, but I try to convince the soldiers at the gate of the of the the of the military base. If if you know to to see if I can still meet with commander, and why was waiting there? One of the soldiers came up to me and asked me if I was from Boorda. What, and there's a tack and I couldn't believe by years really bore tact. Nobody it hardly anyone in the United States who are laws, but here I was one thousand five hundred miles away from the US, southern border, a soldier in Guatemala who knew bore attack us and this and. I got I got the meeting with the commander, the commander than verify that bore tactic in their the US Border Patrol I've done trainings there that on the United States embassy funding was behind the the creation of the new border patrol in this short t, and what a Malla and that was just one example of many examples of of. This expansion of the of the US borger abroad this what they call externalisation or the extension of the zone of security. If you WANNA use the kind of states, speak, that's being used, and why? Tamala is one example of too much to my surprise. Over one hundred examples and countries all over the world where the US border specifically or tack even are going and doing trainings. Sending resources creating border patrols teaching Other countries how to patrol their borders in this this whole idea of pushing out the US borders, so in according to to have the mission of stopping people from coming the United States long before they get to US shorts and this. This is something that's been happening for quite a while. It's been happening for decades in many ways during. In the nineteen eighties impact the U. Dub active documents of I N S. The Immigration and Naturalization Service knowing to Mexico and saying will stop people coming coming from different countries in Central America from crossing the Mexican border. And so that's an example of how far it goes back, but it would programs, or the programs really shifted post nine eleven. There's really a huge emphasis quota on. On on this. Extension of the border and you could really see where the core of this comes from from the nine eleven commission report in the nine eleven commission report. There's a there's one quote in particular. That's really revealing. It says the American homeland is the planets, so the idea that the American homeland is everywhere, and thus there's the underlying logic of this of this expansion of of the United States going to over one hundred countries and using the same units that are now found and in Portland Oregon, or possibly in Chicago today or another cities around the United States. What gives these federal agents Todd Miller? and Law enforcement agencies so much power. You've got Portland Oregon. which falls within one hundred miles of the border with Canada. You've called you've talked about the constitution free zones, and how it relates to border security both the north the south, but now trump is saying he's sending it to well many cities where there are democratic mayors, particularly women and women of color who are mayors. Yes. The so the attack unit. Is there essentially US Border Patrol agents? The US Border Patrol agents. As you just mentioned me they they work in what are known as one hundred mile zones are as the ACLU constitution free zone, so if one can imagine you know the contours of the United States right along the two thousand mile US Mexico border the by thousand mile US Canada border along the coast and a ban if you imagine bands. Like an orange band or something like that along the contours. That is covering a huge chunk of the US population. Two hundred million people are covered in what is known as the concentration freedom wear the US border patrol works with extra constitutional powers, and the and the in that sense where in on the southern border, the idea of of the US Border Patrol, snatching people off. The streets are snatching people in the desert are. Are Snatching people in the various checkpoints of that can put up. These hundred mile zones happens. Every day happens all the time in a sense, it's like the extension of that order into places like Portland or Chicago, but as you mentioned fit within the Constitution Brazil. Are that the border jurisdiction and Portland close Canadian border, and also along the coast so along the coastlines. That's also in that those sorts of jurisdictions and then when you look at. Which is you know? The Special Forces Unit at the US. Border Patrol the ones that are doing the paramilitary style tactics they. Are you know the border patrol and top a top of the border. Patrol rightous in terms of being militarized weaponized. They were formed in nineteen, eighty, four to quell uprisings in. Detention Centers for the immigration. Naturalization Service, and then in they they had a presence in nineteen, ninety, two in Los, Angeles, when there's unrest after the Rodney King incident, and it goes on and on there's a long history of bore tack on being involved in in input in unrest, and that seems to be part of their their purpose, and so as Border Patrol, this has expanded and astronomical fashion over the last twenty five years, particularly for thousand to twenty one thousand agents on or the expansion of tack than happens as well and so. So in a way, it's a surprise. It's in a way it's. It's a quite a surprise like the clip from Brian Williams and then and then way it's not surprised at all. The see that or attack is being part of it. Being put in places where there were you know from Washington view as fast ray was really people protesting that they're going to be showing up in Chicago that they're going to be showing up in New York and places that are in the hundred mile zones in and I WANNA re as as as. As people are quite aware of there was announcement in March that board TAC airport. That's until you know. It was join forces with immigration and customs enforcement ice to show to do a show of force in the sanctuary cities right the sanctuary cities on at to you than to go after undocumented people in in cities, the same cities that were seeing them being deployed right now so in a way going hand in hand. With now with what was what was announced in March with what's been going on for years now. Professor Cecilia Manhattan, if you could also talk about the state violence that's been deployed against immigrant communities along the border, and also what's been happening in detention centers. Where disappearances are routine often. Right Yes, I might research has focused. Not Other border. Excuse me away from the border, but I was doing. I was doing quite a bit of research in Arizona in. Maricopa county during the time when the sheriff off Macabre County. Used many similar techniques to terrorize the Latino populations specifically and I. That time I was interviewing Central American immigrants in the area. Who? Pointed me. In this direction, they brought up to my attention. This similarities between what they had lived during the civil wars in Mala, and they'll cellular, and what they were living in in Phoenix during the reign of terror that the sheriff created in Phoenix for instance and. It was. Their their experiences, the brought to my attention this me. Larry is between technologies of of state violence in state terror used during the civil wars in Latin America and what Immigrant Latino immigrants specifically were leaving in series in the united. States specifically for instance. Phoenix where that wasn't traded and. In relation to detention centers in disappearances in detention centers what happens. To immigrants who are sent to detention facilities is that they are sent to remote places. They often lose contact with their families. Their families don't know where they are I. Have had immigrants calling me asking me to help them locate their family members because they don't know where they are held being held, and so this again brings back memories to win in their home. Countries Dave would go search for families who have been taken from their homes at night or from their places of work. To disappeared and so the same. The same thing was happening here in in is happening here in the United States with six hundred thirty eight detention facilities throughout the country. Each state has at least two detention facilities dedicated to to hold immigrants indication, and so this is. These parallels are so so so strong in so vivid that an immigrants who have lived. Through both. Can they quickly point? Point that out to wants attention, I can only think professor men have are I can only think about the words of Archbishop Romero. as he did his last homily broadcast throughout El Salvador March twenty, four, th one thousand nine hundred eighty who was gunned down by us-backed Death Squad. And, he was saying the words to the soldiers of El Salvador, I implore You I. Beg you I order you stop the repression professors. Cecilia and he had professor of Sociology University of California Los Angeles and Todd Miller author of a number of books, award, winning journalist including empire of borders, the expansion of the US border around the world. That does it for our show. I'm Amy Goodman. Wydner meet. Say.