19 Episode results for "Arbogast"

Ghastly Heist

A Scary Home Companion

53:01 min | Last month

Ghastly Heist

"Quentin arbogast was a legendary thief. For two very distinct reasons first reason was his level of skill and deftness with which he used sometimes. It took the targets days to realize that they had been robbed. In other cases it took weeks. Quinton took the concept of light fingers and raised it to an exponential level. He hit only the toughest jobs with the biggest payouts. The second reason quentin arbogast was considered. A legend was when he was at the of the mountain when he was considered the king of thieves. You walked away. He'd stolen enough. He'd accumulated enough money and property and resources to quit the game for good and unlike every other dumb ass motherfucker who faces that choice. Quentin picked the right path. He was no longer a pro at age forty seven. He retired of course for a master. Thief quinton arbogast. There's always the call the work beyond a certain pointing. It's about pride not money. The truth was he could have retired ten years earlier. You chose not to because he loved what he did. Quentin lived in a penthouse in chicago where he kept the art studio that had served as his legitimate front for so many years. He grown tired of the our trade. Now that he wasn't stealing priceless works of art himself. It held no interest for. He tried playing golf bored of it. After a few months you tried sport fishing gambling. Even the dark gambling. You wagered on the sordid games of the gunny men but even that fell flat then. He took up paying for prostitutes as a hobby. Men women any exotic mix there in quentin indulged every hedonistic women that he had ever held in check due to professional integrity over the years but like goal for sport fishing. That only lasted a few months as well. He already knew deep in the back of his mind that there would never be a thrill or high or a moment as sweet as the steel so he started to steal not professionally. It was still one hundred percent retired. This was just for a bit of fun little stuff at first to get rid of the ring. Rust from cars to cop cars to military vehicle from watches jewelry to museum showpieces from priceless antiques to treasured historical documents to treasonous files on hard drives. He stole justice steal. Sometimes he would return it through the post. Sometimes he would throw it in the dump. Sometimes he would put it back where it didn't belong just because it amused him to do so like when he stole great star of africa and then left wrapped like a birthday gift on the front steps of sandringham house or when he spent a whole weekend stealing the original declaration of independence just so that he could break into. Nicholas cage is foyer and hang. It was just a goof. All of these jobs were just a little. Spot of fund brighten up his retirement. He was not open to working new jobs for other people. But if you got an interesting pitch he would be professional enough to listen and offer his advice until one day in. Two thousand and fifteen quentin arbogast got an offer. He couldn't refuse. It came from a priest who wanted to break into an impenetrable vault beneath a centuries old fortress to steal an infamous painting. Cold ravenous one. This is the ghastly heist drinking whiskey in the kitchen and telling scary stories around the fire music. Monsters and mayhem keller's cannibals in colts fearful fiction and furious fact toll tales and terrifying trues. This is a scary home companion. They met at a public park right next care. Clinton sat next to the priest and they pretended to watch the children play. The volt is very old. The priest said but the door mechanisms have been replaced with custom technologies several times over the years. The security outside the church very tight. Dro agent supervise it round. The clock buttressed with local security personnel. Quite nodded taking notes in his head. That said there is no internal security side from the cameras although they watch and protect the outside of the fortress the zero are strictly prohibited from entering the building. It has a history of gas leaks. Many people died in this church. Mr arbogast so the problem is simply getting inside of the building and then out again once inside the job is simple. Open the vault. Find the painting and a few other items. What other items will glass jars handwritten copies of books a few assorted trinkets but the painting and the jars or your primary focus. What's in jars. The priests could read the room. He clearly saw that. This conversation was over. He didn't answer truthfully. This church used to be run by a fanatical religious order. They killed a great many people and kept what they said. Were biological specimens of the devil. And why pardon my language father but why the fuck would you want those. They are parts of human beings. Sir they deserve a christian burial so that their souls might rest. What i need from you is to remove these few simple items from that vault and deliver them to me at an airstrip three miles away. The moment silence between them children's shrieked on the merry go round as the bigger kids started pushing too fast. Both men watched and grinned but for very different reasons. Quentin started to offer the priest his professional advice but he didn't want to hear it then. He started to offer a few people he might know. That could do the job and the priest didn't want to hear that either. I came for you mr arbogast. I want you to do this. As a matter of courtesy. I will ask you to name your price. My associate is right over there. He has an ample retainer for your services in cash. But i know that you're not interested in money. I have enough money. What else is in it for me. The priest slid closer to him. He shook a mint out of tin and crunched between his teeth. You can see the painting the ravenous one you can touch it. You can examine it. I know that you're dying to mr arbogast. The priest was right living in the art world. For twenty plus years clinton had heard all the stories about the notorious cursed painting bucked. Wild curiosity was enough to tempt him. Still wasn't worth the risk the priest added. I will also but you keep an artifact of your choosing from this fault not the painting or the jars but anything else that you choose. I will then give you the personal home address of special agent bill. Handel he is of great rank and importance with the dr. Oh these days you can give it back to him in a manner of your choosing so that he knows exactly who it was that was able to steal from the dro. Clinton didn't answer and that was answer enough lovely. My man nicholas here will see the details and i will see you at the airstrip. After it's done priests walked away in day. Painfully handsome man approach quinton. He was holding a heavy satchel inside the satchel. Were building blueprints technical specs exterior photos personal notes and eight hundred thousand dollars in walking around money. Quentin rifled through it nonplussed. Yeah great. I'm gonna need all the intel that you have on the dro agents posted to the fortress and you're going to need to double this money unless you want me hiring guys from the fucking bus station. We'll be in touch. Quentin arbogast fell right back into work mode just like that. A few years had passed but he still knew who to call about who to call. He had a lot of industry friends. Besides he didn't need much of a team he never did. Regardless of what heist movies might say. A big squad is bad news for any job. More people involved means more chefs in the kitchen. More moving parts malfunction more loose lips sink ships in the past quentin had worked with two. Maybe three other people at a time and even that was rare for this job and it's unique specs. He was going to need more manpower than usual. The actual heist only required one highly skilled tech specialist to carry all the shit. He was gonna steal. He was going to need three. Maybe four stout men. These three may be forced out. Men were interchangeable. They didn't matter but for tech didn't matter. There was only one person that quentin trusted. Absolutely mona skeleton. That was her handle but not her name. Mona was the single greatest computer genius. The quentin had ever encountered when he reached out quentin learned. That mona had a steady job. Now and a damn good one. She was running the it department for lila ambrose. Of course quentin couldn't help but to ask. Why lila fucking ambrose. The fashion lista needed such a nuclear option grade hacker to run her it department. Mona wouldn't comment about that. She just said she was being paid well enough that she didn't want any other work. Quentin doubled her old rate and then doubled it again until finally. He heard her cy fine. But this is a good by present old man. You hear me although it would have been easier and cheaper to hire local muscle from grand. Bahama quentin went through an old friend. Hire some muscle from miami to fly over with. He wanted no one that had been there and he wanted no one staying behind on that island when the job was done. This was one of the easiest rules of stealing one so basic that most people overlooked but really not hanging around the place where you just stole shit is the easiest way to get away with stealing shit. He ended up with three large stocky men who had developed reputations for following orders not talking or was gonzo gender a man cold twee bruce who looked very much like a skunk ape who had shaved his hands in his feet and then squeezed into bib. Overalls quentin kept the three men entirely in the dark. He gave them a cover story about vacation. He booked them in a room where they wouldn't stand out and told them to be ready to work at his call. It would have been a liability to tell them anything about the job itself. They were just muscle. Mona was fully in the loop. She analyzed data she got him additional intel even provided the deep background on the fortress this massive fortified church had been built by secret of catholic order over two hundred years ago. They had occupied it continuously until two thousand thirteen when there was a horrible accident. A gas leak allegedly. Although mona founded suspicious that only diario and the order had made official statements concerning the one hundred and fifteen deaths that occurred that day that had been the end of the order but the fortress remained and one of the only survivors. A priest named frank rourke took over the church for some months with a new staff. That's when the stories started people disappeared. Children went missing from the streets. Strange other worldly sounds came from inside the sanctuary late at night. The locals considered it cursed. There was a brief fleeting attempt by frank rourke to open the church for services but they were sparsely attended. One night. there is another gas leak the d. r. o. seize control fortress. Soon after and frank rourke disappeared quentin saw pictures of rock and it was obviously the same priest who had hired him for this job. It was red flag after red flag and yet quentin couldn't shake it. He was increasingly obsessed with this heist. He was a man who had seen everything and for the fucking life of him. He couldn't figure out what could possibly be inside. This fault. quentin spent three days in west. End grand bahama getting feel for the place. This was part of his process. Plan itself like all great plans was very simple very few moving parts. No flash no sizzle. There was a misdirection a safe cracking and an escape. Nothing more complicated than that but he always spent time beforehand to get comfortable in the surroundings knowing the environment is very important. There was only one variable in play and that was his contact. Nick nick was a key piece of this plan. He was the distraction but he was also disposable. Nick went i when he was successful then the heist started if nick failed in his role than the job ended. Then in there before it even started. They all walked away. Make was disposable and detached from the rest of them. Quentin studied his points of ingress and egress for the neighborhood. The fortress and the waterways beyond you rented a boat from nearby slip and loaded up the lightweight scuba gear and rucksacks. It all felt right. He was comfortable he was ready. He called the lads. He told them the time had come. And then after the sun had set he made the call an activated. Nick as the distraction. Nick was going to lead a handful of people on an assault of a local apartment building. Where the dro's head of security was currently off shift dro agent under fire would draw away the three other dro agents assigned to the fortress thus was their protocol fortress would temporarily be under the command of the local police and as it came to pass for the reasonable sum of forty thousand dollars. American quentin had been able to convince the local police that it was worth looking the other way for. Why if mona could work her magic record time then they could walk into the building. Load up and walk out the way they came at the. Dr oh returned earth. Anything else went sideways. They would need to use this scuba gear and leave via a submerged access tunnel. The boat he rented was anchored nearby and it was a bit of a schlep. But it would work in a pinch. They waited in a van camouflaged amongst the other cars in a parking lot. Two blocks from the fortress quentin warn. Earpiece talked to mona. I'm listening into the dro channel. She told him and here it is. We have a call. Gunfire protocol code agent. Enwright officials calling for back-up. Here we go moments later. Two black sedans rocketed past. Suddenly the other guard posts. Were all empty. The cameras are dead. Mona said thank you my dear. We still have that other dedicated system. Here kwaidan we discussed before. It can't be shut off it's controlled remotely by another system. I can access. It shouldn't matter but still be cautious on the way inside. Quinton stop to examine one of these unusual. Little black boxes that had been placed around the perimeter of the fortress. All mona could figure out about them. Was that it was custom. Dro tech and emitted low level pulses of microwave radiation. That was what they were but why they were here. That was a question. She couldn't answer the four men entered the fortress. The doors were unlocked. Mona had cut all security measures to the whole building along with the cameras. All quentin and the boys had to do was just wind their way down into the rock foundation and locate the vault door. They were in a cavernous north x. Threadbare carpet and walls were dusted with a strange red mold mascot boys. He said they had all come equipped with full face. Gas masks based on the priests comment about gas leaks. This mold troubled hem a lot more than any gas leak could have the doors to the sanctuary had been sealed but then chopped open from the inside. The thieves lingered staring at the doors. Quentin lead them off to the left and down into the belly of the fortress tweet bruce lingered behind just for a moment. He moved to the door and put his head against. He peered through one of the cracks. He saw strange symbols painted on the walls and the floor. The pews had all smashed and cleared aside and the center of the room had been turned into a knife garden. Hilts wedged into cracks the stone floor blades pointing straight up hundreds of them all stained and crusted nicked and bent in used blooded. Every one sanctuary hummed with dark energy. Tweet bruce backed away. He looked after the boys then. He looked at the front door and he collected his tongue. Sorry voice with mona leading the way disabling all the security measures they found the volt in three minutes. Gonzo wanted to go back for tweet. Bruce quentin said no dice. We stay together. We let old deadweight fall to the side and we do not look back. Time was of the essence. Quentin connected special hard. Drive the volt control panel. He patched in mona who told him the r. o. Agents have arrived at the hotel seems shootings over already one way or the other. it's done. Thank you quentin said and you are working. Yes yes she said crisply and then nothing else. She didn't wanna talk. She didn't need to talk. She was working in quentin let her. You waited patiently. Mona was the best. he knew. That wouldn't help micromanage and it's not like he fucking understood any of this shit anyway. Mona had explained it to him and painstaking detail. But it was like a foreign language. Still he got the core concept that what mona was doing was stripping away. The various updates made this security protocols over the years to revert back to a simpler and more crackle code. She updated him as of two minutes ago. All the dro agents went radio silent. I think it's safe to say the rondo us. And they're coming back that's fine. He said very calmly. He knew the dro protocols and they were very specific. They were very strict. No agents were to enter this building under any circumstances so really he had all the time in the world that said the next two minutes were agonizingly slow but then the volt door grunted farted cracked open. None of them were prepared for what they found inside bodies especially amid the hundreds of glass jars. The racks of books tightly covered artifacts and pieces of art were a series of coffin-sized. Glass boxes inside. Each of these boxes was a human being perfectly. Preserved hermetically sealed skin hugging tightly to bone based on the finger smudges and dried flex inside the coffins. These people had been sealed up alive and then suffocated. I do not like this. Quentin guns over armored. I fucking don't like it either stuff as many of those jars into these bags as quick as you fucking can so we can go. Most of the jars looked empty. Except for maybe a black smudge or a puddle of gu in the bottom of some of them but once the men started picking them up moving around the room and throwing them in bags. They noticed the black lumps were inside of all the jars. Some big some small but they were all moving as if responding to the new life in the room these using green black slugs were slithering around inside the smooth glass searching for way out. The priests had told quentin they were biological specimens and although they did look organic to him they were most certainly not human human at all. But were they slugs were they tumors regardless of the deal with priest he knew he had to keep one of these jars just to figure out what it was that made them worth hiding. So deep down twee. Bruce burst into the fault breathless. We can't go out to front. There are a lot of cops here. Boss of fucking la. I think i heard people coming inside. Gonzo had the only gun so he stood watch on the door and also prepped scuba gear which they were going to need the rest of them. Kappa loading up bags. The glass jars weren't heavy but voluminous enough that they wouldn't be able to carry them all out with them just going to take whatever we can carry and not worry about the rest quinton to. He saw the painting in the back. Well he sensed it he felt what it was before he saw. It was a magnetic pole when he touched it and lifted away from the wall. He saw that a piece of wood had been nailed over the top of the canvas in each of the four corners of small nail head protruded. And they were all coated in a thick black goo. It dazzled green in the dim light. Just like the slugs dead quentin waterproof the painting for transport and joined the others at the door. They had sixty books two hundred four eight jars painting in an old dagger that seemed to be made from a human femur bone that one he took for himself to return to the d. r. o. Dicks when this was all said and done upstairs. They heard shouting and a series of muffled gunshots. That's our cue lads quentin said and they suited up for the swim. Twee bruce frozen solid. Do you hear that you whispered. And they did. Chill passed over the group in one by one. They all looked up at stone seal. There was a distant echoed screaming but it seemed to be coming from inside their heads. Subsonic wales and inhuman grants reverberating around in their skulls. It didn't sound like anything. The quentin had ever heard before sounded like hell itself had opened its gates. And that's because it had. They found the end. The submerged access tunnel. Which mona had unlocked for them quentin. She came in real soft across his earpiece. I think i have to go What the fuck do you mean you have to go. You have to guide us to the boat south-southeast for eighteen hundred meters. My bosses your quinn. I think meant deep travel and then mona was gone. The sounds behind them. Got louder closer more intense. They went underwater. But the noise didn't get any quieter because it wasn't coming from out there. Quinton lead the others followed. They swam like their lives appended on it. Although they didn't know their lives did depend on the tides were strong. The men veered off. Course more than once but quentin got his bearings quickly and locked in on the small beacon. He had placed on a cable under his tethered boat. Once they got close enough it activated and they located their exodus. They tied all the bags to the cable. Under the boat and brought painting aboard with them there were clean clothes and shoes for everyone. They dumped the scuba gear and the old clothes overboard and then they motored away from the lights of the city after a safe distance had passed quentin stopped. He pointed to the small motorized dinghy attached to the back of the boat. That's for you boys take back to town. Don't go to your old hotel get food. Hang out move around but stay low. Key chartered. Plane is leaving at seven. Am the same place we came in. You remember it. I'm not going to be there but you need to be. Quentin shook each of their hands and turn. It was a pleasure never meeting. You never working with you and never seeing you again. Quentin had a bad feeling about this next part and he decided that the boys didn't need to be put at risk he watched them go and then grabbed his benach yours. To look back at fortress. It was lit up bright as day from the sound of it. Half the military was occupying space around it. Quentin this paunchy late. Middle aged. ma'am took his insurance policy out of his satchel and then stripped naked be dove into the water and swam under the boat. It didn't take long 'til we didn't need gear once dried dressed. He piloted towards the private airstrip outside of town where he was set to meet the priest. If he didn't have the coordinates he never would have found this place when he flew into. That was a private airstrip. This was just a cleared off set of wrought along the coastline barely. Long enough for a take off strip was located next to a series of short. Docs quentin cut his engine and tied off. At the far end of the docks was another boat. A small rickety fishing vessel was a toll haitian man with long dreadlocks leaning against the helm. He smoked a cigarette and watched quentin dock with every drag. The grid of scars on his shadowy face lit up orange. Quentin took the painting with him. He found the priest waiting. He wasn't alone. There was a woman in a surgical mask with him and a young boy who seemed to be missing many of his teeth behind them was a plane. It was waiting prepped. Ready stares down. Propeller spinning priest tipped his hat in the rest of it. He asked quentin told him. Priest barked in order to more people appeared. He told them to retrieve packages from under the boat and load them onto the plane. Quentin looked around and saw many more people lurking in the shadows around this makeshift airstrip. They were all armed but that's not what troubled him they had guns. He would have understood that. These people had knives axes machetes. He was not dealing with a businessman. It was clear now. He was dealing with an insane cult leader and that was when he knew he would not be getting out of this alive. He sincerely hoped the boys kept their heads down their mouth shut and made it home safely. They were good workers. Even twee bruce and now the painting yes the priests said the woman in the surgical mask used pry barred. Peel the wood away from the frame revealing the sinister majesty of the ravenous one. The priests took a step away and gave quentin a moment of quiet to appreciate masterpiece. The thief got to his knees in front of you reached out something twinned in his guts and he stopped just shy of touching the canvas smears of dark pain entranced him conjured up darkest images in his head. It has body was repulsed by yet. The hair is on. His arm stood up. his stomach. churned acid his mouth win bone-dry he was barely aware of the passing. Footsteps shouted commands. It was only the roar of the passing twin engine plane as it took off. That shook him from his reverie made him aware of his surroundings. Once again he realized that he had been lost in the painting now. He was watching this dark airplane. Poll up up and away from the island veering towards the states. What do you think asked the priest. It's stunning said the chief thank you. I painted it. You know the scent. I thought the ravenous one was painted by ira. Down lynch priests chuckled. That is what people say. Isn't there was a crunch of boots on gravel and the two men looked up to see nick approaching it appeared as though he had endured a very rough night but he was watching the plane. Fly away with broad charming smile on his face. It's done yeah. I'm sorry i'm late. Everything sort of went off the rails but in the best way possible. The priest clapped him on the shoulder. I know i could feel. Nick looked quentin. Why is he still here. Are we bringing him on board. The priest shook his head sadly he's too strong willed and not of like mind. You can have them if you'd like more. Give them to korean. She needs to practice her technique before she goes to atlanta. The thief said wait. Wait wait wait please. I was holding back from you. I'm sorry but just take what i have and let me go please. I need anything. Quentin took the bone dagger out of his pocket. Is that the priests said with the halting voice. His eyes sparkled green. He looked utterly delighted to see this blade. Oh my is it is quincy really is just behind. The dagger was a long thin device size of a ballpoint pen detonator. For his insurance policy he clicked the end of two seconds later. Three miles out to see the twin engine plane exploded. He had hidden the charge in with a bag of jars and although small it was enough to rip the plane in half and send wreckage in every direction. The cultists gasped cried out. Nick swore and pulled his gun priest side in rubbed his eyes. He looked tired. I suppose this is my fault. I should've kill you when you doctor. I knew that. But if i'm being honest i really to hear what you thought about my painting. The thief said it's transcendent really. The priest steeple his fingers. Thank you nick. If you don't mind thank you for listening to another episode scary home companion. Did this one seem a little incomplete to you. That shootout at the hotel. The strange black boxes surrounding the fortress the gates of hell opening in the sanctuary. There was a lot more going on than what we saw and heard. That's because there is an entirely separate story going on behind the scenes for the ghastly highs. Come back next time for die. Standing up which features and old friend of ours name lefty check out the show on social media were on twitter instagram and of course facebook or conduct show directly at a scary home companion at g. Mail dot com better yet. Check out the patriarch that next episode. I was telling you about which is so real. Cowboy shit is already on the patriot. Along with exclusive episodes scripts analysis videos and resources to explore the world of scary on campaign an once or twice a year. We give away some merch. The episode was produced and edited by jeff davidson and featured music by trig and gusset with the volt j. with gates open in cool z. With night heist tension darker and possibly my favorite song title ever permits mitzvah and as always chelsea oxen dined with the theme music there are links to all of these great artists in the show notes. Check him out

quentin Quentin mona quentin arbogast frank rourke Mona Quentin arbogast mr arbogast Quinton quinton arbogast sandringham house Mr arbogast mona skeleton lila ambrose Bahama quentin Nick church for services quinton Clinton
213 - Live at the Northrop Auditorium in Minneapolis (2019)

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

1:28:04 hr | 1 year ago

213 - Live at the Northrop Auditorium in Minneapolis (2019)

"This is exactly right. Maybe that's how you do it. We brought a friend a best friend. Did you hear about our new producer that replace Steven is kind of a big get huge gap in Hollywood? The I took a little bit of numbers break. You take a bit of a pay. Cut here this. This is waiting accident. Karen and Georgia Society wants to believe it can identify evil people or bad or harmful people. But it's not practical. There are now stereotypes. We serial killers or your son's. We are your husband's we are everywhere. I don't feel guilty for anything. I feel sorry for people who feel guilt. Now go get you get your head in a game you gotta get gets head in the game. Zack Ephron as Ted Bundy pretty amazing but wait. Here's the real note. Hope you enjoy your new backstage guests. Don't help them with the boat. If he asks can't wait for your show. Minneapolis Murderer knows. Adriana and court may well done and let's get this guy out of here you feel upstaged by Zach African. Does you suck. And she didn't want to bring him no I did. That'd be threw him under the fucking that rude. No not at all we do it. We WANT HI EVERYBODY. We want to tell you about when you guys stood up. It made me think of the one girl who didn't realize last night that everyone else had sat down and it was so sweet and earnest and alone. It was the funniest for one second. We were kind of like this and starting to talk in for one second. I thought she was going to be like excuse me and I was like shit here. We go at the game customer service at the top of the show but then I saw her hands go like this like she is like a little raccoon. Like bring it on whatever you want to say it. And I'm like Oh. She has no idea. The standing ovation is over then. She looked behind her and sat down immediately and then we called her shit out. Hard poor thing is the best thing really the ultimate compliment just an extended standing ovation. Doesn't and even though nothing's happening. How's it going real good yourself? Thanks thanks for having US back here awesome. This is our fucking. This is the last city of our five month tour. Thank you this. This is exciting less you all. We appreciate you letting finally stop. Oh are agent. Will I know it's the best we love it? It's been two seasons Of A lot of the year. Yes five full months. The Winter Spring tour just call it the half yearly sale. And I wanted to show you so as you guys know. Maybe or you don't after the show we go back to our hotel. Rooms usually with food and strips both turn on forensic files it is always on. Thank you H. L. and you're telling it so comforting lately like this weekend. Basically I've been noticing new episodes that I've never seen before which is so because I think they had like twenty episodes anything I now. That's one his hand is this and or events. Even I've seen this one and I love you. So there's a couple of new ones which means more great hairstyles to to laugh about and people who are just what's happening with them. The thing is that the early nineties didn't seem that weird when they they don't hold up g you wonder like I always think well now we look normal then I look at the early two thousands and I'm like what the fuck was I wearing a rea- piercings and face to face and like I don't know is not good my mom. I used to come down the stairs my mom ago. You're not wearing that to the Dennis to just be like what's wrong with you. You look like a Hobo and then I see pictures from then. I look exactly like like huge jeans with rips. Like all the way like no middle gene just top and bottom. Should that like if you walk in the Dennis that dentist. You'd like what's going on in her mouth. This isn't going to be fun okay. Did you get some good two good friends? I WANNA introduce you to and remember we all pot. We can't pause this so this is like take the photo as quick as you can bend here. He comes put one. That's one and Vince goes. He should be investigating sideburns. It was a different time. But you know those you're like I'm GONNA BE ON TV tomorrow for the first time so this fucking happen to me. I'M GONNA go get a haircut. Oh then you get this. This is what happens. My My bangs were shorter. That the I I I left the salon crying truly then they would hate yourself salon. I was like I'm going to treat myself. It's the first time you're on. Tv Let it be a big deal. Paid one hundred fucking dollars for him to make me look. Everyone's like one hundred. I know I would have done that for. You is ninety on white wine and a touch of speed and I would. I would have got him right up there. I mean I still do it for you minus the speed. Just the white lost touch wine when I have a glass of white wine. I'm the best hairdresser. Show US proof. Well I guess the only proof I have is resist. The opposite of proof is that a guy almost broke up with me when I cut his hair. Once I went to school. I can totally do this. And then he was like I. Okay I saw this guy last night. I watched this one because he did a really moving speech was he was raised. Smart and great. How do you trust him at a guy who's wearing Peter Tork Swig? He did a really great speech about how we shouldn't judge people on their strange behavior and I was like a should be judged them on their weird. Bob's that make no sense clearly. You're putting a little bit of Hydrogen Peroxide Son Highlights the highlights and for sure. And that's WHO's GonNa be representing us one day at our trial if we're lucky if we're lucky good growls. Speaking of this is my favorite murder charge hard stark. Thank you thank you best friends. Best friends we appreciate it Stevens not here. No he never comes. The next door will just be him right thing. That's a good idea. Yeah he's GonNa have to wear he's going to be half me half Karen and he's GonNa and we're not gonNA pay him extra for it he's GonNa lip sync. He's GonNa live on it overran who we had. They did last night Milwaukee at a bar called Dick's there's a drag show where they were dressed up like us done. We've made it the end honored. We don't have to do anything else. That wants drag Queens. Are Doing you fucking done. That's yeah that's what my grandma always says made it made. She knew the levels last level that you need to hit. Has Your dress holding up. It's okay thanks so much. It doesn't have Parkinson's a slightly disciplining drunk screaming role. The first night pointed it out to us very well. Yeah Yeah we have. We have a ton of drunk screaming girls in our own. Yes we get it be proud. She's creeped. He's in the front row screams but then points yourself if you miss the yelling. I'm here no that was for me. The girl is silver tank top. Yeah they sell can line here. I have seven I would have would highlands okay. Should we sit down? Look at these petite little century modern. These these are quite something. What is this Naga? Honestly I would put these in my apartment. These are nice and then he got a little twist on that sort of thing. Yeah this is a fucking high class situation glance. We got whatever this is. I don't know what this is for. If you're stressing out during your story what I am. Do you WanNa tell them about this. Oh yeah the speech. It's time for the speed. You have two more this. Do you have tonight tomorrow night to perfect it so fuck and feel it from your heart and your soul. Can I get a follow spot? Please just GONNA walk around the stage. A little bit the lighting guys. Just you really want one. No no no. That's just some theater comedy to make you hate me. So this is a true crime comedy. Podcast and yes and people like it but but oftentimes these live shows a you murdering buy tickets and then you bring people who don't listen don't like it don't care and don't WanNa be here. Which is you to live. Your Life Anyway. You want but I would suggest a redirect on that area. I don't know your story. Do whatever the fuck you want. Anyway hug her friend sweetly. I'm sorry I made you. And then that person has to go to some kind of weird crafting thing later. It's a tradeoff. Relationships are supposed to work. But so to those people who don't listen and you'll get it sometimes when you hear the phrase true crime comedy podcast. You know a lot of times. People are like. That's wrong or those things. Don't go together so we just like to really quickly say at the top of the show Georgia and I have been obsessively crime since we were very young but we also simultaneously have dealt with all the horrors of our lives through humor and so it was only natural when we started this podcast and started talking to each other about the worst things that can happen to people in the world that we would then let off steam of the horror of that by making jokes so a reserve the right to do that as individual people. And if you don't like it you can get the fuck out. That was a good one. Was THAT ONE. Mellon was great and really fun. Facts not far from this theater right now. Share just gave that exact same can drunk share drunk Karen. No Sair listen its biggest share thousand ways. It's just that there's no resolution to the drunk Karen Bits. You just keep staring going. Why why is this happening? And in the morning you're like did I do carry. Okay you share God. What happened last night? Did I meet share now? I don't care yeah you don't know Karen that's the truth. She would steal your purse. She would fuck and she would steal your purse. Kick you in the shed and then accuse you of betraying her somehow pretty much the pattern. Oh that's I'm hers tonight. Who are not thank you because on our way on the plane over here I thought Oh fuck. I'm last tomorrow night. And it had mini panic attack of being the last. Whatever I fucking month tour. It's right you better have sparklers. You'd better have you better have A. Us Navy boat wish share on the front of it. I'm GonNa have the Real Zach Ephron. Yes could you imagine now now? I'm doing the murder of Louis. Arbogast thank you. Thank you even. If you don't know or care thank you. That's how it's done. Okay here we are in one thousand nine zero nine Louis guest. He Runs A. He's a German immigrants. Big Old Jovial. Dude he runs a butcher shop in one of Saint Paul seven corners West Seventh Street. Look it up I love. I love like five of those corners. Say I won't tell you what you want. Yeah let's not. Let's not turn them against US just yet. Not yet so. He's a German immigrant and he has a good business sense and he's a really skilled butcher so he's able to build a successful business and provide well for his wife. Meena and their five daughters with a really comfortable life. He he is worse at. The time is rumored to be around two hundred thousand dollars at the time at the time right now is a lot of fucking. That's one hundred dollar haircuts every week. Fuck my banks up again. I don't care rich which in today's money is. Should I guess sure weights? Are you one hundred thousand dollars? I remember there was a dip in the market. And then they'll come up okay but then it comes does come back always does airball with trend. The bearable trend just said it. 'cause I listened to financial podcast. That's what they say. Two hundred thousand dollars back then won a one zero nine nine. She's GonNa be four million dollars to close five point six million. You're in the ballpark. I'm getting I'm getting good at that. I feel like in the beginning. They were like three hundred more dollars. Just couldn't even now. It's my passion. Now it's your new podcast. Today's but it's all I do is read lists of how much money you send me the year. The amount and the amount. Yeah I can't do the amount and you guys won't believe this. Oh my God holy Shit in fifteen sixty eight. They didn't have money. Everything was safe. Would you say leaves silly? It was coffee. Everyone knows it okay. So four of the Lewis in Menas daughters live with them and they're beautiful two storey house. That's only five minute walk from the butcher shop Let me show you them real quick. That's the Oh. Yeah some couple. That's would it be rich back then? Yeah it's different now the real housewives of yesteryear. When you're rich you just don't even fit in your photograph thing. I'll have another side of bake and go fuck yourself. Yeah and then. This is their house. Which clearly is what. He was running late beautiful except for the board apart. Where is that modern art? I don't know what that is. Did this house burned down while they live. There do what? Oh I've done it again. That might be an ad for clean cleaning solvent. I don't know Gorgeous House okay. You know. I'm sure it's costs nine hundred thousand dollars today inflation okay. So they have five daughters the youngest named flora. Her nickname is babe which sounds insulting the pig. Probably then there's many who's eighteen. Ida is twenty two in the eldest is beautiful black hair Luiz. She's twenty three and then there's another daughter who's nineteen year old Emma. She lives with her husband to back. Then she was an old insertions. Thank fucking God. Someone came by twenty may live down the street on the South Exchange Street. Just a block away so on the surface of course as all families do this family of looks normal and perfect. Yeah there you go. But they're not all these. These beautiful vicious social butterfly butterflies a- blood or murder Shannon. They're known for their competence and independence and all that good shit. So early morning hours on Nayef thirteenth wait. Let's you're not your birthday. Two days after eight nine nine a sixteen year old news boy whose name is Abraham Abramson. It's probably his last name. He hears screams as he walks by the arbogast house at four. Am on his newspaper route route and he sees two daughters Ida and many on the front porch in their nightgowns. Crying out my poor pop. I won't someone help. Poor Papa and screaming for him so he the newspaper where runs into the house like a hero and he he runs any fines. Luiz and flora weeping and wailing in grief in the hall. He runs up to the second floor. Passes Arbogast WHO's WHO's coming down the stairs. And when he gets to the second floor he follows the smell of gasoline. Fumes and smoke to the main bedroom and their he finds Louis Arbogast. The family patriarch lying on the bed. He's engulfed in flames. Still burning engulfed means it is. You're right it's going to be like that tonight sweating but sorry. Okay go ahead. And but no one's downstairs yelling fuck in fire fire fire like that's a good point okay. Let's Mike Thank you. Hope Help Hell. Yeah Okay Okay Great And the newsboy grabs a sheet from the floor and tries to smother the flames. Oh sorry do you know how old the Newsboy is? He's sixteen. He's probably the police say back then how they did. And He's been so for ten years. Yeah I thought you said he's been sober for ten also very possible probably not. It's one thousand nine hundred tough job. So he smothers the flames. And then he's joined by the fiance of Louis. Louis the oldest daughter Henry and they put out the fire fucking great then runs downstairs to the Baxter's where he finds a burling burning fabric and feathers blazing and he puts he fuck and tosses outside and puts the fire out which is awesome is doing a sixteen year olds make that a lot of Chutzpah. There's the neighbors like where's my paper. Excuse me your fire to have to send a telegram to the head office. Firefighters arrive and head to the second floor. They Find Luis Arbogast. He's barely. He's still alive. No Gasping for air. He's unconscious lying across the bed naked and the back of his skull has been bashed in and there's blood splatter on the walls and enter the sheets beneath him and they load him into an ambulance and he dies on the way the hospital. I totally forgot to tell you is the most of this information. I got from the PODCAST. Most notorious they have an minnesota. You know spin off saying that's right great so you can hear about. They specialize in stories from Minnesota. You know what I mean. Companion companion piece companion secondary podcast spinoff. Spinoff you go. You did say that. Sorry that's on me that's on me. Was It the other day when you were like? I have to be your thesaurus. All the time or something like that. No no you're because it was. Who's the actor from the thing and anytime she says and I'm like I'm going to get this something rises up in me where I that's like the one way I can prove that I'm valid being. We're just like since we couldn't be more of a perfect because I can't remember shit ever but the thing and that and then you're like hanks who who played Mel on Alice. Tailback is screaming at the top of my lungs. It's a fruit very sad. Well done okay. No It's good. It's so good I've got. Stop It. Okay he died on the way to the hospital and his wife. Meena who was presumably in bed during the attack has burns on her body as well. She's taken to the hospital. And police searched the house for evidence and they follow a trail of blood. Footprints lead footprints from The bad down into the cellar and there they find an axe wrapped in some clothing and loosely hidden in some newspaper. It stained with blood and it has a fucked up handle. It's obviously the murder weapon and they also found two empty gasoline cans near the burn bed so the family and the family as a watchdog that guards fenced in yard all night. A Streetcar Watchmen his duties. Were to make sure there was no obstructions on the tracks. That sounds like a bummer. Stop the Streetcar. We have a bunch of sheep he had been patrolling the area all night including in front of the House and saw no when come in and the dog hadn't freaked the fuck out so it's clear that someone inside the House committed this crime And so all the doors and windows were locked etc so Lewis's wife. Meena claims that she'd been in the bathroom in right near the bedroom when her husband was attacked at the acts and set on fire and she didn't know what was happening. She comes out of the fucking bathroom and fire at four. Am Now it sounds unlikely right? But have you ever gotten into one of those magnetic magnified mirror ask US get into it? I mean truly. That's half of the time of the store has been trying to prove small black hairs. It's right Ramiro phase. I somehow still have my eyebrows. Thank one more day. We got one more. I go back tonight. We'll let them all out. That'd be fun okay. So she says she didn't know was happening until one of her daughter's screamed and ran into the room and pulls Lewis from the blaze. And that's how she. She says she did that. And that's how she got the burns on her but she's dressed in a fresh clean nightgown that doesn't show any signs of fire at all. So that's weird number one and then they go in the bathroom and find bloodstained women's nightgown undergarments in the bathtub. Like someone was trying to clean them. So that weird number two. That's number two OHKA. The youngest daughter tells them a totally different story. She says that she woke up in her bedroom. That she shares with Lewis and When her mother started screaming Sharon to our parents bedroom saw the bed on fire and her father's head bashed in and her mom was not lying next to him. When that happened and so She pulled her mom out but then she couldn't get her dad and the rest of the sisters woke up screamed outside paper boy etc so WanNa see the bed. Yes you have to okay. Well definitely fits inside that house but then if you notice the pillow that's his billow obvious next to it. Has Blood spatters on at where? She said she was laying. So that's that you know what I'm saying. Like they wouldn't be on there if she was laying there. Ooh mystery. Also the wallpaper. Looks like it's a blood splatter pattern straight win hard to investigate this colorized. Yes so of course reporter show up. Because this is kind of fun scandal for them and they're basically podcasters back then and the rb gas family just like shuts themselves off and their staff. And they're like we're not talking to anyone and then they reporter see in the background background of the house a stable boy shredding the murder mattress sack yard. Thank you yeah. So he is stable. Boy is getting rid of evidence. Essentially yeah but the police had left. It wasn't like he was doing it without you. Know that's supposed to so They see the police clear. Lou Louise's fiance and Emma's husband because they were in the house at the time and they don't know anything and they refused to speculate later. That Day Lewis. Brother visits the house and he's interviewed by reporters. He says he he doesn't say much he tells them the only speaks to his brother on his way to work by just giving him a wave and they're like why and they're like he doesn't. WanNa get mixed up in anything. But he knows the murder couldn't have been committed by anyone outside the house. So let me just tell you guys this ship not cool So there's rumors that are circulating that there's some crazy secrets going on with within that seemingly perfect house and it might have led to jealousy or revenge as a motive to the death and They ruled out robbery. And then John O'Connor who's Saint Paul's most famous police chief you guys know and love him. Yes he's one of the greats. I insist that he's your best friend. He was fifteen and he painted fences for a living so he says the murder looks like the work of an insane person. And there's a theory that the attack was attempted double homicide since was also in bed but she hadn't been hitting the head so it wasn't maybe not that one also. She said she was in the bathroom. Yeah but she has burns all over her body. Who knows okay? The coroner who Emmons Lewis's skull guesses at the person who wielded. The axe was probably not very strong and when they hit him. It just didn't do much so they had a couple times. And they then the person douse the bed in gasoline and set it on fire so the okay so two days after the murder Louise. The daughter checks herself into St Lukes Hospital for a rest cure. What's that cocaine? No that's usually what they did back then though. I'm not I'm not going to say no because the vapors right. Morphine Tango huge glass of morphine every night. So you can rest. Yeah so reporters are like ooh. What's this all about her? She had a nervous breakdown and they start digging into her background. The daughter She's been known in the past visit fortune. Tellers all over fucking town. She's like obsessed with them and spends a large of money to help. They help her make life decision and another paper reports that she spent the Christmas of nineteen thousand eight recuperating from one of her bouts in a sanatorium so an alienist which we all know. It means that can psychiatrist today because we're so smart. His name is Dr Anthony Sweeney. He had examined her when she was staying at. Saint Luke's two months earlier and he tells the papers because there's no such thing as facial confidentiality back then relatively new album everything and it's still is in not in practice. Okay okay. He tells her that he tells the papers that she had been hopelessly insane. And that at the time of at the time of her release so strong statement of a Dick. Move if your psychiatrist or just hopeless all. You're saying I can't do anything AM I. Can't which means no one can exactly and she hadn't been cured when she was released and the family doctor who is a woman which is nice says that they're the her her longtime patient and there's no doubt of Louis as a victim of advanced melancholy. Ah with this with strong suicidal tendencies. Which means she loves smashing PUMPKINS. Sorry now that's not good. It's not good comedy. It wasn't as cheap. Doctors had told her father that unless she was committed once more there was a good chance she would kill herself or a family member stuck way before the family member died right. Meanwhile Meena Arbogast the wife. She's still in the hospital because of her burns. She tells the police that Lewis had been having hallucinations for months and had recently returned from the hospital and she lewis believed that someone was trying to hurt her and was constantly watching out for an attack. She was a little paranoid and her father though had insisted that she be released early from the hospital. Despite warnings doctors had warned him that Lewis had been Would behave violently possibly towards him but he insisted. Lewis had insisted she come home. She was his favourite daughter. She had a strong head for numbers. Don't know what that means. Maybe she can guess future amounts of money. She's like watch one two three four five six seven watch me. Don't you love that dad? And she spent every day with him at the butcher shop acting as the cashier I think she was kind of the bookkeeper But so let's see so. His funerals had held at Christ church. On Sunday may sixteenth. Lewis is allowed to leave a hospital ten with the rest of her sisters and There's hundreds of curious townspeople your hands. We're lookie Loos then gather outside the house and they watch the sisters like celebrities as step into carriages to go to the funeral and they also noticed that at the funeral. Luiz refuses to look at the body of her father as he lay on the casket So she becomes the prime suspect so but then on the day after the funeral meena breaks and she's in the hospital. She breaks in an interrogation by the police and confesses to what what she says happened. The morning of Lewis's murder. She says that when she came out of the bathroom she found Lewis. The daughter wild-eyed staring at her father as he lay in the bed. Flaming bed and the bloody axe was at the ground on her feet. So she yes. She's like my fucking daughter of it well so Meena said she screamed and ran into the room and try to put the fire out. And that's why she has the burns and then you know went crazy. And then they started to get rid of the evidence to protect. Lewis is what she says so they take Louise from her hospital to her mother's hospital high. They're like hey how are you? And then They are that Lewis will confess by seeing her mother and when Louis sits by her mother's bed with police witnessing she denies everything and Sh- Louis gets angry. Nina gets angering yells out. It's you or me. Tell the truth you were outside bother store. When I came from the bathroom you must tell the truth. Tell the truth. But here's the thing. They spoke German too so they might have been like. Don't say anything. Tell the truth. This is German. Don't say anything. Tell the truth nine nine nine. Tell the truth please right. Yeah so like. We don't know tune to I have so. Let's say let's see here. Lewis denies knowing anything she stares straight ahead blankly which. I'm sure was cool. But she's the perfect scapegoat. It's not her. She's right the perfect scheme right and She stays silent. They both break into sobs and they hold each other and cry. It's very lovely. Meena later tells her attorney that she thinks Lewis is the one who did it. But she didn't see her do it so she's not sure so the police chief. O'connor your best friend believes Louise's the only possible perpetrator and they're confident enough in their findings that they arrest daughter. Louise almost immediately after encounter with her mom. She faints when the judge recounts the details of Father's death the judge. She's like he's like you can have an attorney and she's like God will be my attorney. I did not harm my father. Truly I did not hear my father. Can you imagine God's attorney briefcase just be like huge and filled with clouds? Yeah it was like a whole fish not just one fish anyway. I'll show you later. Thank you first. Let's do the score case. Not Guilty. Your honor So the judge was like honey. Let us help you and was like you can't enter a plea and tell you. Consult with an attorney. Her journey ends up being one of the most famous attorneys in Minnesota History William D Mitchell. Guys love Let's right he would eventually serve as the Attorney General from nineteen twenty nine to nineteen thirty three so what you guys love. Hometown pride etc. So he enters of not guilty for her and most everyone believes Lewis would have to be have been crazy to have killed her father and so she becomes the sympathetic character in the media. Like all the townspeople and everything are like. Oh that sucks. It's like her. Dad had been warned that she shouldn't get out of the mental institution and they were saying like he basically killed himself by letting her out early when he was warned. That's a bit harsh so okay but then when the doctors like study her and her mental house they find her level. Her level headed quick-witted and very normal and neighbors and friends are like she's not. She's one of the smartest people in the family. She's not fucking crazy. She just likes to stare sometimes. She likes to stare when her mom is accusing her of murdering her down. Like Oh my God. My mom is accused of murdering my down. I mean what would you say I'd go all wild-eyed Yeah Fuck You. Janet? You don't know me. Tell you quickly on this trip. I've been reading a book that was given to me by my listener at the first show. That's called adult. Children of emotionally immature parents and I almost started crying. Whenever you guys are like I feel like I know you know truly you do. I was reading it and just laughing. Now that's exactly what happened. Would I love the woman gave Georgia the book? And she's just like. I don't want to say anything but I loved this book. It helped me and I've listened to the stories. You told you might find interesting or whatever and then they walk away. Georgia turns me goes. Can I have this was like yeah sure cans for you was written? Was New in the. I know that's mine. I don't WANNA BE GREEDY. But your parents sounded mature. They're pretty mature. Yeah in a good way and airflows are other books. It's not it's just not that. Why so many books Of Adult Children of Parents. Who wouldn't stop yelling. Even though there was no reason to Oh fuck in volume volume volume. Turn the light off. I'm here and literally feet away from the what's it called the word this subtitle or the working title. I didn't get that one because it wasn't an actor. Okay go ahead Who COMMITTED THE CRIME? Okay she's level headed she's cool. She's funny brightest one in the family so the grand jury meets and they're like you know what we really don't WanNa do. Is this daughter for murder if she's got mental Illness issues and also like you know all this stuff. They don't want to do that. It would look bad. And she's cool and she's go with but they end up. They end up. Having enough evidence to bring two indictments for homicide one is for Lewis and the other is for mother Meena. And they're like we think you guys are GonNa Crack on each other and we'll get the real story But police no longer believe that. Lewis committed the crime but she was an indirect cause of it and they thought Meena the wife had done it in a state of rage when she discovered conditions in the household. Okay here's what we have okay ready. I'm ready. She had strong head for numbers and stuff and was working. People Bob on the calculator yet. It was an advocate advocate. Nine thank you. You're welcome that I met And they were okay. And so of course. It's nineteen thousand nine so there's just a lot of innuendo. No one will outright say anything editions in the House type dishes in the house. There were rumors that the relationship was one of quote inseparable companionship between the daughter. And the Father. Just fucking say it yeah. According to newspapers at home she had been with him as a comrade in the most intimate son so she's a socialist obviously shines a totally different light on the whole story. And it's like did Nina do it. Because she found out about that Louise to it because she couldn't fucking stand it anymore and then the grand jury so menas tried i. Her story about being in the bathroom for five minutes. Doesn't really hold up because it would have been impossible for Louise to grab the gas can from the basement. The acts which was out in the woodshed and do all that shit and then murder her father light him on fire in the five minutes. That Meena said she was in the bathroom. And then there's conflicting testimonies and it seems like what happened was all the daughters four daughters. Were like well. We're going to confuse the shit out of you. Oh we got our fucking sisters on our moms back thank you so they just kept telling different stories weird and not talk didn't make sense totally and then they'd also say like. I don't remember a lot so they were just trying to confuse and the prosecutors didn't even want to really be prosecuting this after they had found out all this information so Okay so they had found the night before the murder Lewis had had a meeting with family. Friend and Lewis had been there as well and he had been talking about selling the business and moving to Alaska. So yeah. We're not be hard in nineteen o nine. Think it a little bit difficult. Yeah I mean it's hard now right he's like I'm not taking the family with me. I'm not taking my wife. The only person who's allowed to come with me as Louise. His constant companion also. They also called it a manifest friendship all the words. Yeah no but even the like we're trying to find a motive and maybe that was the motive for either of the The mother or the daughter to kill him And so something that could be jealous of. Lewis's relationship with her father it's not a relationship And Lewis was considered her father's real partner as the head of the house as well so like Meena would like need money for household shit. And he'd say no but then he'd give a ton of money whenever Louise Asks for money. He'd give her more than she needed. He put away money for her wedding which she hadn't done for the other daughters. But so and someone's had a family friend said that Louis Louis loved Louis more than any man ever loved. His daughter says they said that as a way to be like. There's no way she would have done it. And it's like what's the motive that exactly the way but that's just what happened but since there's no real motive the jury comes back with a verdict of not guilty for the mother and months later when Louise's trials about began prosecutors are like fuck this shit and they dismissed the charges against her the papers. The papers accused the police of stupidity and the public is shocked. There's no one that's going to stand trial for this murder. And then later the Arbogast women all become partners in the butcher shop and they like a Sitcom Arba Gas Lady's lap didn't turn out and how we thought it would be. Let's take this fucking Shit and not good Alaska. Lewis is the bookkeeper. Yes she is. She ends up marrying a man named Asher Webster and moves to Rochester Michigan. Sadly she dies in Nineteen thirty at the age of thirty eight from apoplexy which at the time meant heart attack or stroke Suspicious No. It's not people. Were dying all the fucking time back then. It was like a major pastime. Baseball that racism. Okay no one has ever tried for the murder of Louis Arbogast again. Police knew the crime had been committed by someone in the House and they did not have an evidence enough evidence for a conviction the murders never saw and it left people guessing if Lewis did it because her father was molesting her or if Nina did it because of the same fucking reason or if they did it together maybe all the daughters were in on it remember. There was like clothes that were have been washed in the bath. Tub and like the too much time so maybe kind of seems from what I want. Listen to most notorious to me. It's like maybe a minor walked in on her daughter doing it and then was like let's finish this up together. Oh Oh right like I got. I got your bag out and so Louis Louis is buried in the Oakland cemetery in Saint Paul Minnesota and that is the murder of Louis Arbour guy. Wow it's just so he doesn't like a great person but to burn to death. You don't want that. No you don't want that good mom thank you. I'm going to do Harry Hayward the Minneapolis Bengali. It's another Oldie. Actually I almost I was getting into one and I was so excited. Because it's one of my favorites. I won't be able to remember the name off the top and when favourite when I say it's it's really the best. I have no idea what goes in it a no. It's the one where the total socio about daughter kills her mother and the made. Oh yeah it's so good but you did it already so I was like all in it and like pulling pictures and doing all this stuff. I mean days like you guys did this. I'm like yes but there's plenty there's plenty to go around okay. So most of the information I found this on the website. Murder By gaslight. If you guys have not gone on there it's a great website. That's all like turn of the century. Old fashioned murderers and real good pictures. Drawings of people is. It's highly recommend. It's really well done. And the man that Rights that website has also done a couple books. It's really good. Okay so we'll start. I will tell you about this woman. Hair her name is Catherine Kitty Gang. Hey Girl Kitty Gang. That's the haircut. I had a hundred dollars and I had never spent more than like forty dollars on a haircut before always turned out fine and then if an sorry this is not going to know you can do it go. You've got to get it out. I one time wrote a song that was all about it was called. This is not the haircut I ask for is really really slow and sad and it was just all about. How ugly do you think? I am that you gave me that haircut. Yeah it was pretty vicious sing it. They're saying you don't fucking tell me what are these people anyway so this is Kiddie Gang and Katherine Kitty to her friends. Very tall woman. She is described as imposing and handsome. Oh honey that's bad. No because actually. She's very popular with them. Okay so they're into back then it's a thing. She's huge hands and throw man over shoulder. Let's do this okay. She is from New York State. She moves to Minneapolis in the early eighteen. Ninety s because she has ex-fiancee named Frederick read and He won't accept that they're not going to get married so apparently the deal is read as a clerk at the golden rule department store many of those around anymore. I gotTA go down to the Golden Rule and get some spanks for the show. He asked me to marry him. She accepts then she later calls it off but she doesn't give the ring back. She ends up carrying the ring in a little bag around her neck. And then so. How fucking irritating is that? That she's like oh he won't get over made and that's where he's like. I just want my money back. So he's she's like he keeps following me around. I have to move away. You won't accept that we broken up. He's like if I could just have the rain. I'll leave you alone. Did I tell you when I broke off my engagement before? I met Vince. Obviously I gave the ring back immediately. And then he text me. You're not gonNA leave too much money. I got back for big money and I'm like I'm happy for you. Dude high five motherfucker I okay. So in Minneapolis. Kitty gets a job as a dressmaker. She lives in an apartment building. Called the ozark flats guys live there. Who Lives there who lives? There gets life-sized poster of Zach F. Rom. That's beautiful. Isn't it? Cool Okay. So Phil Vintage. The ozark flats is a building owned by a man named William Hayward. Who's the patriarch of one of the most prominent and wealthy families in Minneapolis? So Kitty starts a relationship with William Son Harry Hayward so Harry is a handsome playboy with a reputation for being a gambler. And a CAD. Hot Right so Harry. Hade were hayward earns his money like many of the wealthy elite through theft insurance fraud counterfeiting but he always gets out of trouble with his wealth and charm. His charm is so intense that some people even believe he has hypnotic powers. That mustache does now. That's the haircut. That's definitely the haircut. Some fucked up band. It's Stephen No I think it is. That's talking here because if we go back one way notice it. I you don't notice detail work on Harry. And then you're like what is it about him that so hypnotic it's those fucking bang. Yeah it's you can't see the detail as well but this girl actually goes up so well versed ways it if if you take a picture wave and you flip it but sorry this was I was Gonna say. He looks like that to play him in the movie of the week. Yeah he's a cat and you don't believe me dead on on on what happened to the mustache switched. I texted Jay and I go. How are your photoshop skills? I have a funny joke. I'd like to do. I mean it's uncanny anyway anyway. So that's Harry hypnotic Harry Hayward so so they get together. They're hanging out. He starts telling people around town that they're engaged. They might be engaged. But everyone's like you're both dating other people like they're so no one really knows what's going on with the two of them but they do know that. Kitty is incredibly charmed by Harry. All of his you know bullsh- magnetism I will shit hypnotic powers. They're working on her like crazy and she is also very interested in his get rich quick schemes. She wants to live that lavish lifestyle And he often declares that money is his God and so you match made in the deepest bowels of Hell. When I hear your money is gone. I think about dirty money literally. It's just like covered. Nbc's like God. I know okay so so. Basically Harry's got these plans he's going to sell stolen jewelry and start trading and counterfeit money and kitties. Like I am town. Whatever you want to do. Whatever you want to do it She also starts loaning him a lot of money because he's a big gambler so she's in it and she's pretending to like all the band's he likes and she's she watches sports all the time. She knows what's happening hunting whole nine. Who who among us hasn't really pretended to be a totally different person for the love of a bad man? So don't judge Kiddie data. We get a kitty you handsome woman so on December thirty thousand ninety-three kidney and Harry meet for lunch and over lunch. Harry Asks Kitty to help him what he calls a green goods scandal. Or I'm sorry green goods deal. He doesn't call it a scam. That'd be bad salesman. Green goods deal which basically means that he wants. He's going to buy counterfeit money and he wants her to to do it with him. So he gives kitty two thousand dollars and he tells her to meet up with janitor at the ozark flats apartment complex and his name janitor is Claus blixt. Do you know Klaus Mixed. Do you want to know who I think would always of course I do? Piercing fucking is right. I know I think it would be from the podcast. Gareth Reynolds you know him. He can do German accents. I don't know if that guy's German I just he's gotta be. How could you say the name Claus blixt and not do a German? I love it. It's Okay Okay. So the plan is that that that night. Kim Klaus are GonNa go to the outskirts of town and wait for Harry and Harry is going to meet them there with the counterfeiters and then they're going to do the deal. Okay SO KITTY HIRES. She calls up the livery stale stable. The goose men liberal relive ARY stable and to get a horse and buggy and she specifically requests because she uses a livery stable all the time so she requests Lucy the horse Charming charming and wonderful. It's like Horse Uber. You could do horse pool if you want to save a couple dollars if the idea of getting into a car where the you know the driver and you also don't know the passengers is my living nightmare. There's people who isn't it the Weirdos. Yeah I mean. Do you make conversations twice. Don't I wouldn't suggest it took the extra dollars but if you broke okay? You're right. I'm being elitist. I mean maybe not at night tonight. Don't do it okay. Okay Okay Okay. So at seven or eight. Pm Lucy. The buggy arrive at the West Hotel. I'm sure someone who's driving it but there's no one says lost to history. Lucy was the kind of worse you could be just head over to the West Hotel. There's going to be a lady named Katie waiting for you got it. Does it. Stay with her a couple times. Says I'll be back in two hours. She heads out. So when the Horse and Buggy Arrive Kitty gets in and rides away so two hours later at nine ten PM Lucy. The horse returns to the Guzman leathery. But there's no one inside the buggy. Yes IT'S EMPTY. So Kitty was the one driving it okay. Yeah so soon after on. Excelsior Boulevard on the outskirts of Minneapolis. So they're the best most historical road. Sorry I'm about to lose my mind. I can't be doing that. This part and soon after on Excelsior Boulevard on the outskirts of Minneapolis. Katie gang is found lying in a pool of blood and her skull has been crush no so the police assume when they come to look at. Kitty has been a horse and buggy accident. Basically and so immediately the death is ruled an accident or you know assumed to be ruled an accident but then they take the body to the morgue and when it's examined the doctor notices something that they didn't see at the scene that makes him doubt that ruling of accidental death? And that is that. There is a bullet lodged behind her left eye. She's yeah that'll do it. Yes and then the that doctor was like it is my professional opinion that the horse did not. I am a genius. Lucy the horses innocent. Yeah can't hold a gun. With two hooves physically medically impossible. Okay so now it's on. It's a murder investigation and the police are trying to confirm that the dead woman is in fact. Kiddie gang so they go and question all the residents and workers at the Ozark lattes apartments and almost immediately here comes Harry Hayward coming forward and saying that it has to be kitty because he had loaned her two thousand dollars earlier that day and I swear to God I'd written on here somewhere the the modern day equivalent because it was fucking crazy amount in two thousand eighteen. Whatever the fuck its eighteen ninety. Th At this point eighteen ninety four. So maybe it's two hundred thousand. I think it was five hundred thousand. That's what I was GONNA say. We'll see it might come up so so so here's what I'm saying. Okay so Harry is telling the cops look. I loaned her two thousand dollars in public in daylight in a restaurant. Someone must have seen us and then followed her. That night and rob turn kilter and the cops were like okay. So they I go and talk to Frederick read her ex fiance because they're trying to trace it back and when they bring him in for questioning They interrogate him for several hours. But his alibi solid and so there he's released then they bring in the next suspect. Which is a woman named Miss Lillian? Allen Lily Allen. And that's right. She's a famed British singer at the time. And whose brother was game of thrones so this Lily Allen and Kitty were rivals over Frederick and so So they bring Lillian thinking she has basically killed Kitty out of jealousy. The Kiss. You won't get that ring back and stuff but then Louis has a solid alibi so they have to let her go then they search kitties apartment for clues and they find a ripped up. Note that reads. I cannot marry you and they discovered and traced back that the author of this note is a man named Harvey axe -Ford so Harvey's a traveling salesman who's known kitty for around seven years and they'd been involved but Harvey ultimately told Kitty. He couldn't marry her because it turns out he was already married. I guess that one. Yeah Yeah you could tell by the Harvey expert in his in his name. He like walks around like this a lot of winking from Harvey Oxford. He's a big winker. He's a big a big goose so it was back then deal with So when they talked to kitties neighbors police learn that hours before her murder that they heard Harvey and kitty talking in her apartment. So they're like this is the guy but again. He has a super solid alibi so they have to release him so then they decide. They're GONNA go back and Question Harry Hayward and he of course has a good alibi. He tells authorities that he was with his friend. Thomas a waterman for most of the night of the murder and then when he left Thomas he went on a date to the Minneapolis. Grand Opera House to see a musical called a trip to Chinatown was share in it and part of his alibi is he was there on a date with a woman named Mabel Bartelson easily the most unattractive. Are you swallowing a burp or you saying someone's name maybe? Maybe we'll be able to okay but Mabel barrels is alibi and because he has his alibi because he's been so willing to help with the investigation all the way along the cops were like it's not this guy and so they keep on investigating people in there are about to eliminate Harry as a suspect until they question. Harry's older brother Adri so several hour after several hours of questioning Adri breaks and spills the beans or as they say in Minneapolis. He Mabel Bartelson all over the interrogation. It's been it's been five months. I'm sorry I laughed so fucking hard when I wrote that in the hotel room and this is what I'm in for. You got this. Thank you okay. So adria admits to the cops that Harry has been plotting. Kitty's murder for weeks turns out that Harriet persuaded Katie to take out a life insurance policy for herself with Harry as the beneficiaries. Yes this was before dateline. When people didn't know not to do that he then goes to his brother. Adri any asks Adri to murder Kitty for him to be his hitman. Of course ADRIA refuses. Their interaction scares him so much though his own brother his little brother that on November thirtieth eighteen ninety four Adri goes to the family lawyer. A man named Levi Stewart and tells him what Harry has asked him to do but Levi. Stewardess okay talk to you later and doesn't do anything and doesn't take it serious shit. So meanwhile because his older brother said no hairy goes to the ozark flats janitor Klaus Briggs and he asks him to be the Hitman and Klaus also tries to refuse. But Harry won't take no for an answer and he keeps going back and visiting Klaus every day in his basement room at the ozark flats any alternates between making Klaus Grand Promises of financial reward and just outright threatening him until he finally says he'll do it so blixt explains to the police. How weirdly controlling Harry is saying quote? He fixed me with his is only should be at a German accent. He fixed his eyes. I won't do that. He fixed me with his eyes. I couldn't say no when he looked at me that way. Nobody could at one point. Blixt says that Harry's tone becomes violent and he says to Klaus. Every time I go up to her room she puts and she puts her arms around me. I would like to put a knife in the Goddamn bit wait. There's more if there was a dog and her I would rather shoot her and let the dog. Oh Oh what a did is just small talk for Harry classes like anyway. I have to go mop a bunch of stuff so both Claus blixt and Adri Hayward tell the police that they believe that Harry as somehow hypnotize them Yes so this was a time where mesmerizing was kind of big and culturally thing and people were like. Oh you can be controlled. Someone can control you with their mind and they also It was also will. This was around the time where this is why Harry Haywood would later be referred to as the Minneapolis Fan. Golly And if you don't know who's been golly is I didn't either. Don't worry about it. We can always ask wikipedia and it says it's Mongolia character from the eighteen. Ninety five novel Trilby by George Marei and insulin. Golly transforms a young woman named trilby. Why to a great singer by using hypnosis? Oh and then. She's unable to perform without scalise help. And then she becomes entranced by him and the name usually refers to a person with evil intent. Who Dominates manipulates and control? Someone usually an artist. Pretend like you always knew that. Here's a picture of that's fan. Golly and that's okay and I think racist. Yes for sure it very much so you think what I was GONNA say. I think the person that would play him in. The movie of the week is clearly one hundred percent the wicked witch of the West Margaret Hamilton. So I just I saw this and I was like. Oh my God. I've done it again right. High fiving myself then. I remembered this story. Do you guys know that. In nineteen seventy-three they actually had Margaret Hamilton. Appear on Sesame Street and it traumatized children so badly. They never ran the episode literally. She flew over. Sesame Street. Dropped her broom. Gordon got the brick and wood. We give it back because he's like. Why are you on Sesame Street? And then she starts threatening people that she's going to turn big bird into like a feather duster and she's going to turn Gordon into something else and the only person that likes her is Oscar. Oh this is just I. Tell the story to the millennials. Because you think we're exaggerating. We say that in the seventies they did not care about children and this is just one more piece of proof. Let's scare the Shit Outta them. Yeah on their favourite show on the calmest Chile. Show where it's like one two three bird's avenue which okay anyway I was gray was quite a sidebar. Sorry almost dead. We loved it. That's good I reject it. I reject you I reject you Satan so on December six eighteen ninety four three days after Kitty's murder police arrest Harry and his older brother Adri and the next day they arrest Janitor Klaus bricks now mispronouncing his name because of my German accent Claus. Blixt is scheduled to be tried first. And then Harry scheduled tried second by the prosecutor's ended up switching the dates because they're afraid that if Klaus was tried and found not guilty then they will not be able to prosecute Harry so honored January. Twenty first. Eighteen ninety-five Harry's trial begins. And the lawyer. William Irwin is considered the best lawyer in the area and basically what he's His strategy is he's going to say that Adrian Insane and so that basically takes out that makes his whole story non-credible and that he his testimony can't be used but the judge disagrees saying quote. Well I don't see that anymore insane at present time than the attorney is that's not good dam. Danielle so at one point in the trial Harry is called to talk to give his account of what happened. He denies any involvement. He accuses his brother. Adri and Claus blixt of the ones who plant Killing Kitty so the prosecution they call a one hundred thirty six witnesses to the stand including Adrian Klaus and Adrian clouds deliver the most convincing testimonies and the whole thing lasts for forty six days on the last day. Friday march eighth eighteen ninety-five jury deliberates for just under three hours. So they're like do even have to leave the room or can we just say? Let's get this over with forty five days and today's fucking time that's Fourteen Years Ladies and gentlemen. That's a SPINOFF POD cash Europe. How many days in days time three days later? Oh sorry after those three hours they come back and find Harry Hayward guilty of first degree murder and three days later the judge sentences him to death by hanging despite this death sentence. Harry seems to be in good spirits. Great under that. I just wrote psychopath psychopath. He maintains his immense mmono maintain sentiments coffee. South Delicious maintains his innocence. He jokes around with reporters and in prison. Of course he's he. Charms his way into getting a bunch of special permission for things because he is the way he is and then of course tries to escape at one point So then they catch him. They are ashamed that they were tricked and they put him in isolation and then on December tenth the evening before the hanging Harry agrees to give a full confession so His cousin Edward H goodsell interviews him. While a court stenographer takes down the transcript and basically in this interview Harry admits that not only to the murder of kitty gang but also to illegal gambling arson and oh three more murders. So yeah the first murder. He admits to is of a twenty year old girl he met in Pasadena California want. He lured her. Oh there it is. He lured her into secluded area of the Sierra madres which is a national forest. So I'm like this secluded area of the Sierra madres that one corner that's away from all the other trees the fucking talking about a secluded area of the Sierra Madres. He robs her of seven thousand dollars. Seven thousand which is in today's money six hundred thousand eight hundred nine hundred. It's one hundred. Eighty eight thousand. Shit I said did I send you a hundred. I know he rob ser of a ton of money shoots her in the back of the head and buries her in the woods. Oh okay then he robs and murders a consumptive near Long Beach New Jersey and takes two thousand dollars from that person from ant man which is fifty four thousand dollars today. That's right and his dumps. His body in the Shrewsbury River and the third murder was a Chinese man in New York. They got into a fight over a card game. Harry beats him up and then get ready. If you don't like bad things put your fingers in your ears. And what are you doing here? This is the second get the Virgo. Eats them up and then jobs. The pointy leg of a chair into the man's eyes sits down on share and kills him. Oh good uh that's it's just in case you're on the hot guys. Wow so men and midnight. On December eleventh eighteen ninety-five Harry is led to the gallows. And when asked if he has any last words he rambles on giving a flippant narcissistic monologue. Shocker but he does at the eleventh hour finally tell everyone that is older brother. Adri had nothing to do with the murder. And here's a picture of him before right before what's right before his hanging. That real yeah. I'm scared it's either real or they're a film test with Ben Affleck playing in the Bio pic that we're going to make. I am scared to have nightmares tonight. Yeah he's not great. Well we know that they finally pull the lever. He drops But I wrote but like any blowhard. Sociopathic nurses it. He doesn't die right away. He hangs for ten minutes. Holy Shit. Don't forget the chair thing though. His death is finally declared a two twenty five. Am and that is the hypnotic story of the Minneapolis. Thing gone fucking job. Now has great young right. Do we have time for a town since do I'd like to know more about this. Twenty year old woman with the equivalent of one hundred and eight thousand dollars. Yeah you I'll be about over there by that exit sign thank you. Thank you couple rules. We know you're excited. It's exciting everybody thinks they have the best story. But here's a couple of ways that we're going to guide you to realize whether or not you do have the best. Let us help you first of all. It should be local definitely to Minnesota but hopefully to this area Minneapolis or Saint Paul or the outlying regions. We love an accent but honestly if you come up here with this happened in Dallas. Everyone hates your guts. I don't know how else to convey that to people. But Gloria I'm the exception to the rule. You're not you're at please It should be a concise story that you know all the details to that has a beginning a middle and an end please. And that's not just for tonight. That's for life real. Don't make people listen to you. Work your dumb shit out all the time And then also no go ahead. I think that's it. You can't be drunk. You can't tell your own story someone whose name whose story you don't know because I'll talk come out and good luck gentlemen. Remember the lights If possible I wouldn't know that way. Be careful you guys really nice work. Gravity's working up there unease ing. That'S SCARY. It's nice to meet you. Nicole everybody cool here. Mcluhan I think it's it's on but yeah okay I live in Saint Paul. Three Co packers. No Okay and cougars. I'm really I know it's scary do you. What do you do for living? Do you want to say I'm a teacher in a theater director? We just? I just closed high school musical a couple of weeks ago. Are you serious this together? You got this. Yes so when we were searching for a house about five years ago. Five and a half years ago. We had a realtor who is very hip at the hippest realtor. Every reason band and he has a construction company. Anyway so we're looking for houses and socially policy Paul and we're in Coamo area. Everybody knows by seven point seven corners. Not really okay. So we're in that area looking at a house that we can afford and our realtor tells us there's this house nearby that's like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars less getting excited. Yes okay. That's like one hundred fifty thousand dollars. Less craftsman bungalow with all the woodwork. It's what we want. We can't afford the taxes but we're in the area so we say F it and go over there. Yeah okay so so we go in the house and it's gorgeous right away but I turned to my husband and I say to him. This is weird and not usually a person who would ever vocalise that. So we're looking around. Our son is with us. He was four or three or four at the time and he's running around the house you know. Let kids do in the bathtub and up and down the stairs. And yeah the the the thriller says Hey guys. Can you come in the kitchen for a second? I hadn't been in the kitchen yet. And so there's sticker. Blake leftovers of stickers on the cabinets on the none of the hardware is there is a beautiful farmhouse kitchen and he was like. Oh this is amazing. But wires all the hardware and why do I feel creepy and so are realtors has come and look at this? And he's got the disclosures and he says I've been doing this for fifteen years and I have never seen this and we've actually been joking about like what if we see a murder house that we pull up the carpet to see the wood floors bloodstain. We were very excited about the possibility of that happening to be truthful. And so he shows us the page in the number one disclosure says quote Unquote House is. The form is the site of a former crime. That's a and he's like I've never I've never seen this. In the state of Minnesota you do not have to disclose as far as I know. It's a murder house do. And so I'm like this is super weird. We'd go out to the garage poking around in the garage and our kid is up in the loft and you like almost falls down and I'm like okay. We gotta get out of this joint so we leave and of course we get in the car. What's the first thing I do? Go ask and so my husband's like are you seriously doing that and I'm like yeah yes I am. This is like my dream come true slash nightmare come true and so it's both and so it turns out so there was this couple. Nice then couple about this house had a little boy. Eighteen month. Old boy husband was kind of a narrative. Well he'd been in prison prior had a drinking problem but had kicked it. When he met the love of his life she was a young target executive. Shoutout target up and coming very popular in the company and everybody knew her and so one day. Actually on New Year's Eve gun to their parents house he had stolen a handgun out of the closet and it turns out he had kind of had enough of his wife getting on him about drinking. She had found a bottle of vodka in their car after they got back from church you know and he decided that was the night. I think it was January. Sixth Two thousand thirteen. Yeah January six. Okay sorry and so. He had come home shot in the head. While the eighteen year old was in bed eighteen month old eighteen month not year old. Yes dot it. That would be yeah And I don't know I never did. What if you left the kid at home? Or if he took him with to go to the hardware store to get the supplies so he came home and in the bathtub where my child was playing dismembered her body. This guy's name and I don't even want to say his name was fucking Steven Steven Johnson. I think her name was Mina or Mina anyway so he puts her in totes and then sticks or in the garage where we hung out for a while right so couple days goes by go by and he oh and he had gone in parked car at the car park where she worked every day and then he sent her a tax to throw off the case just so gross right and he called her mom and lake chatted with her and stuff so yeah so eventually. He calls one of his buddies from prison. Who Lives in White Bear Lake? Go bears we only have twenty more minutes. Okay so he says hey. I got something new store in your garage. You mind if I do that. So he figures out what it is and he does the right thing because he was on parole and he calls the police and I as far as I know he's done in stillwater. Still stay sexy and don't get in the TUB. Did you buy the House we did not by the house? We couldn't afford the taxes read. Michael everyone everybody answer to that second front given. Yeah we're giving you can't take take care of Zaka thron for us. Love him like we loved him. We would have taken home to buy an extra ticket. Yeah just can't that's crazy you guys my heart and my bladder are right. Now thank you so much. That was an amazing amazing show. You guys are great great crowd. Thank you saying. I was saying to Vince because I love Jinxing Shit. How fucking incredible and easy and like like well. This tour has gone and how lucky we are. That like. It's been fucking cool and it's all because you guys are here for US support US and sell out fucking theaters. So we have to do another night. Young minds are blown. And it's it's so awesome because when we do get to meet people after like every person that comes up is somebody that we feel like we know and we would hang out with its. We're all the same. It's so fucking hilarious. Yeah and it's such a great feeling. It's such a beautiful thing to see to to watch you guys build this community and connect with each other and support each other and we get the credit for it but you guys are the ones that are doing it and we will never ever be able to thank you enough so thank you so much and of course please stay saved and do bugs missions arsim foremost but more than that. Stay sexy and.

murder Emmons Lewis Meena Arbogast Louis Louis Harry Hayward Lou Louise Kitty Gang Minneapolis US Louis Arbogast Karen Bits Nina Zack Ephron Bob minnesota Lucy Vince Georgia Luiz
Hero Mom, Modest is Hottest and Mom's Average Monday, Manic Panic Attack

Take it or Leave it

44:06 min | 2 months ago

Hero Mom, Modest is Hottest and Mom's Average Monday, Manic Panic Attack

"Welcome to take it or leave it and advice ish podcast parents. You can download this podcast on itunes spotify google. Play music or anywhere. Where you can find your podcasts. Make sure to leave us. A five star review do that. Yeah for sure. That's your host meredith mason. I'm your host meredith mason. I don't have the paper dave. Didn't you the paper. And even after one hundred however many episodes. I don't know enron now i mareth as inning. And i'm your host tiffany jenkins. This podcast will discuss all things marriage motherhood and everything in between please remember. We're not professionals at anything. You may actually need so any advice we give you can take or leave because it might be crap on today's episode of take it or leave it we're gonna be talking about A hero mom. Who had a broken pelvis and was able to lift her child out of the wreckage of the condo collapse to are crazy story. What an awful story that That is that condo collapse could. Yeah it's happened here in florida miami. Yeah it's it's insane. And they had warnings the bill. The bill there. Whoever owns that is in such trouble. It's i mean like they had warnings. They knew that there was something called cancerous concrete in the building which basically means like all of this has to be rehabbed in order to be saved or whatever and none of the work was done and of course these tenants that people didn't know it's well i i it stories like this that i think of in my mind when i'm trying to think of reasons to be scared at any given moment like even just sitting in a building i'm like what if there's cancers like that's how my mind works so we'll talk. I understand. i understand that. I really do. And then there is Hold on i had. I had a move. My there's a christian singer something this this christian singer who wrote this song called modest is hottest and if well read the lyrics he stated it was satirical but the internet didn't feel the same okay and then there. is this tick talker named maranda arbogast. Who did this tick-tock. I don't remember what day it was. But i think it was earlier this week and she was just crying and losing her shit and she was like i need help. I need parenting vice advice from stay at home moms. How do you not lose your shit. And i figured we could reassure her that we all do on on the daily and it's like no no. You're you're right so you know we can I guess play the audio of her tick-tock because it is that long and then maybe we'll talk a little bit about that. Okay cool before we do that. We have melissa from canada opening things up for us. Hey be assured a call us at three one. Five eight three four two six nine six and you can leave a message for us to open up the show with My name is melissa. I'm calling from nova scotia. Canada and i think vote april tenth. No sorry may ten. Sorry been in lockdown But i'm calling to open up the show for you guys and so let's open it up with a montvale nimitz because we're all in this together. And if you do that you haven't had a montvale moment then your lighter. Thank you buddy. Guys by dude that cactus creep me out so bad. It just poked its head out anyway. Sorry you can't see it so it's not funny. Do you have a particular mom feel moment. We haven't discussed his doing it. Do you have one locked and loaded Long and aren't kids off at sleep away camp on monday so it's been very quiet around my house so it's been really nice. I've been getting a lot of work. Done i Did one load of laundry. He leap in the whole time now. No napping has taken place but we have gotten a lot of work done. And i do miss them But the camp has a facebook page. So i have seen like video clips that they've popped up in an alive. I was watching one of their facebook. Live and i saw bryan jump off the diving board. And matisse was in there. I saw so via on one of the pictures. So it's like okay. I'm seeing them. 'cause it's technology it's no technology right so they can't have phones. They're not allowed to call home. Is it a co ed sleeping camp. Well there's boys and girls but the you know the cabin or girl cabins and boy cabins. Okay it it. It's it's just fine. Tiffany okay yeah no totally. I'm sure matias is having a gory. So it's it's funny on the way there so feel wouldn't ride in the car with us. She wrote what's going on the roof with our friends whose daughter's also go jehovah was here and she was taking her daughter and she's like i'm riding with them and then we get their meredith is crying. The boys are like by walkaway. Sofia's crying in there hugging so hugged us like twenty times. And they're both crying and said that was unexpected. And then the other unexpected part. I haven't slept all week. Is he doing it the whole time. I guess i don't know. But i literally from night one. I've been up at midnight. I've been up at one thirty thirty to five thirty. I'm worried about them. I'm not thinking about them specifically but under the roof. I think i get it. I was not expecting that. But i need some sleep. I haven't slept at three thirty. I found him walking the house. And i was like what are what are you doing. And he's like. I don't know i just couldn't sleep. I was like well. You surely won't be able to if you're walking so aw day right away back down and then it's weird because like you know when you're dead asleep but then you realize that the other person's not in the bed anymore like i don't know what about that happens but like for some reason i woke up because i knew he wasn't there and then i figured well he's probably in the bathroom taking a poop right like I mean or taking a p whatever. But i look in the bathroom. Nobody's there and then i'm like what the hell like. Where did he go. So then i call him. He doesn't answer. So then i get up. And he came out of the shadows. And i'm like doing like i'm walking and i was like you walked out of the shadows. It i charlie get it though when i sleep like a baby when my kids are in the bed with me. 'cause they're there and i feel like if something went down i could save them right now. They're spread out all across the top floor. So if disaster stroke strikes throw-up struck disaster strikes. Yes i forgot the word. I'd have to run all over the place. But that's really cute dave that you had this realization. I just was not expecting that at all. I was really looking forward to just having takes drugs. You can take drugs take some for me. Just take up one. Lead is not endorsed the use of sale of or no. That's true. But i mean like being medication. We don't have any sleeping medication in the house. Melatonin i probably have melatonin. But i've tried. It never worked for me snort. I'm just kidding to thanks again. We really with the famously does not endorse yes. No literally any medication over the counter of don't do it. Don't start melatonin all right. So let's go ahead and get started. So this horrible. Condo collapse it was at champlain champlain. How you say it. 'cause there's p. l. a. n. right towers But there's this mom angela gonzalez it says in the wee hours of the morning on june twenty fourth as their twelve storey condo collapsed. Angela and her daughter were asleep. Cbs foreign miami reports. They fell from the ninth story unit. All the way down to the fifth floor angeles sustained a broken pelvis among other injuries but still managed to pull not only herself but her fifteen year old daughter to safety From the moment you know so it was just. I don't know the the entire thing. Like how do you even move with a broken pelvis. I feel like as basically the middle. Your body yeah i like. I don't even know how anything i get. I have bad cramps. i can't walk to the bathroom. I'm surprised that. But maybe i feel like. It's the mom instincts kick in near-superhuman superhuman. I heard a story about a mom left in a car for kid. Yeah yeah i'm talking about. I think the adrenaline is probably what happened. So she probably realized. Were probably think about that to these. People were asleep. How do you even wake up and think what a bomb went off. Because that's what you when you look at it. That's what it looks like. It looks like a bomb went off like the building was just so destroyed. Yeah and i think about that all the time because our beds vibrate we whatever anyway we have tempurpedic because we're old and i always think what if we vibrate the nails loose in the floor and fall through like where will i land land in the kitchen and then i'm like will i survive. Probably not but these people fell four or five stories while dead asleep. Can you even fathom and then so did the top floors fall top of them will. Yeah yeah it was literally a collapsed all the way down into itself and this poor woman. Her husband is still missing all so and then luckily the others. The other daughter was not in the building at the time so both her daughters are okay. She still hospitalized but they have not found her husband so they ask for And he's a sorry yeah. She's a mental health provider. Who works with under served communities. Yes so there is a go fund me set up for them By the by the girls volleyball coach he said they are the type of family to roll up their sleeves. And do whatever is asked to help anyone in a time of need or crisis we want to show them how much we have their back. Yeah she's intimated right now. Yeah yeah cheese responding. How did she save her kid. If she's well they by the time the the rescue crews had got there to take her out. I think what happens. Is you get this rush of adrenaline. Yeah did you to get out of the situation and then my guests is you collapse cause your body is in shock right so it does what it has to do and then it's just like no i'm done now and then they took her to the hospital You know so. Tragic one hundred and forty seven people are still missing right well. A hundred and thirty nine have been found now and by now. I mean it's been. It's been a week do they. Say are there any news reports about the owner of the building. Like where's he added i. I don't know. I haven't seen that yet but just things have been coming out Every day about what they knew and what they can prove that they know and of course this is going to be a massive class action lawsuit from these families from those who lost families in there as well as the families who have had to survive this. His owners and collapsed. florida condo. Were about to start paying nine million for major repairs. They were about to well. They're gonna be paying a lot more than nine million now. It had been recommended three years ago. They were it said. They were days away from a deadline to start making steep payments towards more than nine million dollars in major repairs that had been recommended three years earlier on. Oh it's just it's a very sad story and it and it clearly sounds like it could have been preventable and the thing is it. Sounds like the. The owners of the condo didn't want to e didn't want to evacuate the condo in order to do the work because a lot of these spaces were airbnb. Cheese like people were on vacation. You know some of these people live there but other people were there vacationing So it sounds like they didn't want to tell people they they didn't want to not make the income on this and tell people that they couldn't be there. Because i'm assuming the type of repairs were needed would require the building to probably be empty. Yeah so that's what it sounds like. So obviously they're gonna you know everybody is going to continue following this story And figure out my my question is are these people. If they're going to be found criminally negligent is my guess. And what is that. I mean is that going to lead to jail time. Just not least not just repayments of earn lawsuit payment. I don't know. I don't know legal in has to be twenty. Pounds like the defendant. He's a defendant in a lawsuit a class action lawsuit as of now. My gosh. it's said the defendants should get compensation for or no. He's not the defendant he. I don't know but the defendant should get compensation for what they've been through including recover damages equitable relief. Restitution disgorgement reasonable costs and attorney fees and all other remedies remedies dis. Yeah meaning to remedy the problem to fix it and to santa's issued at a state of emergency. Oh yeah it's it. I mean it looks like a bomb. Went off well there. There's mom thor's report. That the board members hoa board members. Five of the seven of them resigned in a two week period after this report because they recommended moving forward and the votes. It kept getting. Shut down or the slow pace. Oh my gosh really. It's terrible so they were aware of lots of people all the feelings to all the families. Yeah sending so much love. I can't fathom this kind of horrific shocking unexpected thing unexpected. As far as the tenants go your oregon sleeping. Do i can't yeah. Yeah it's It's bad so we will be continuing to pray. If you wanna go check out their go fund me page. You can head on over to filter free. Parents dot com. The article is Right on there on the front page and the latte will that will take you to the go. Fund me link. Some are just around the corner. Wait nope summer is here. And guess what guys. It's time to get your kids some kiko. that's right. Kiwi co has super cool steam projects that steam s. t. e. a. m. for science technology engineering art and math. They've got everything that you need this summer to keep your kids going out of your hair. My kids get so excited when the kiko create comes to the door. This last time chloe and i got to do like the safari hunt and we made these binoculars and these little animal puppets it was the cutest thing ever and i love that it makes the kids. Think it's hard to find creative ways to keep the kids busy and screen free while stretching their brains especially now. He does the legwork for you. So you can spend more quality time tackling projects together with kiko. There's something for every kid or kid at heart. Get your first month free on. Select crates at kiwi co dot com forward slash ticket. That's k. i. W i c o dot com slash. Take it all right so christian singer. Matthew west released his latest single modest is hottest and it has sparked some social media of a social media firestorm. That's my jam. The lyric start with the boys are coming around. 'cause you're beautiful and it's all your mother's fault you're not gonna sing it. Modest is hottest the latest fashion. Trend is a little more amish and a little less kardashian. What the boys really love is a turtleneck and a sensible pair of slacks. Yeah honey modest is hottest. I want to hear the song so bad but it would be copyright and to my knowledge. I believe he's taken everything down off of social media. I don't know if the song still. He's removed himself from the face. Well i think he's removed at least this song they go. I love this. He says if i catch you doing dances on the tic tac in a crop top. So help me god. You'll be grounded till the world stops. I'm just kidding. No i'm not i like it. Yeah so the song is written to his two daughters who are now cheered in the e. It's like a silly song. Well his claim his claim is that it was. He said the boys really love is a one piece with a raincoat over that. Yeah they modest as hottest sincerely your dad. Yeah yeah yeah. Yeah so but but the internet was like wait so we don't love our daughters if they wear cropped up right you know so. It's this whole other. Of course it is. Because that's what the internet likes to do. Oh no this makes me so bad. I'm looking at the video right now and it's literally. The kids are on the phones. The dad pops up from behind the couch singing it. Like as a joke i guess. Am i missing something because now. I don't know that you're missing anything. I think it's europe. It's whatever opinion you have on it right. I mean what exactly are see as a dad raising daughters. This song is ridiculously object defying and harmful telling your daughters. It is their responsibility. Okay here it is. This is what i was missing like. I knew there was an angle that people were coming from. That had something to do with it. Not being the girls. But i just right to cover up. So as not attempt boys it reinforces the lie. Women are responsible for male actions. Its purity culture one on one and it's grows so people are saying you know what's actually hot respecting consent. Let's teach that. I then we don't have to teach girls at. It's their fault because they dressed a certain way which is what. I agree with in it right like well. Let's just have conversations about you know. Yeah of course talk to your kids about consent. It's not the girls responsibility. That boys can be creepy. Purves like it's you know just because we're wearing a low cut top doesn't mean you have access i get it. I get all that but in this case this cute funny silly. Dad is telling his daughters to wear turtlenecks with raincoats. Like it's just cute and it's funny and get it. And i don't think his daughters really i understand all sides of it i understand. Yeah no i. Obviously you know if we all know that the internet right crazy place to be and people's somebody said this. Isn't it bro. This isn't funnier silly. It's demeaning to your daughter. Sexualizing them and teaching them that they are responsible for boys thoughts and actions. How about teaching boys treat girls with respect no matter what they wear. Yes of course your objective. Buying your daughter's oh my gosh i. This is. why quit the internet so often like i understand the whole thing about consent about not objectify women this whole movement i totally frigging get one hundred percent but i also think on that same token that people need to chill and relax and like this. One song isn't going to define a generation it's not going to people aren't going to listen to it and be like no you know what he's right guys. We need to start wearing raincoats. Like it's a joke. I just feel like we can't whatever. I'm going to get some emails but i think it's joke and the internet. I feel like you can't say anything without somebody saying something. No not such a bummer. I don't think we live in that world anymore. I think his dad silly. I also don't think we live in the world where you are like so there used to be agree to disagree in that doesn't exist either right like like every time. Somebody has an opinion about something it. It's fired right back in your face and it's like well. Bananas are the best. And how dare you claim peaches. Or what's awesome and peaches and bananas aren't the same thing they are. Fruits and the best fruit is a peach. And it's like. I disagree while you are wrong. And it's like why are why am i wrong for like. Yeah and that's the thing too. It's like everything in life. of course you're supposed to like what parent. I don't know if my teenage kid was walking out of the house in a bra and thong i would never be like good for you. Honey get out there and show everybody that just because you're dressed like this doesn't mean they can like that's never a message. Apparent gives the kids like forever. Parents are like cover up just because men. Maybe that's the problem. I don't know i think there's once again. I'll go back to the whole. There has to be something in the middle we have declined and just find where we live and we live in the gray and that's okay. People are thinking. I know in my opinion. I think they took this too far. They're thinking too deeply about it. It's just a silly song. Adad made about his daughters. And its. that's it. Let's just move on with the world. We can keep preaching consent. We can keep preaching you know covering up and that it's not your responsibility for how boys you know whatever but this just this one thing is just a joke. We we had this conversation when we were talking about the show right and writing jokes and it's like how many people am i gonna offend with this joke. How many people might offend with his right. Like we've taught we've had this exact conversation and it's it's hard it's hard but it's like that's what a joke is. A joke is meant to be funny. I'm not saying it's meant to be disrespectful or it's meant to be it caused infl- an inflammatory response but a joke is there. Are things out. There called jokes and it seems like these days people don't like they don't wanna hear a joke and it's like wow what happened to so another. Pastor came out and change the lyrics. He's a girl dad. He rewrote the song. Which i get it. I see this. Well if i catch you doing dances on the tick. Tock where what you want girl. Just go off. Hold your head up so your crown doesn't fall off your queen if you forget if the boys act like pigs. Tell him gouge out. There is because i've some shovels and some alibis. So just wear what you want. And i'll love you till i die so i have a question if so now this is how i feel if i say. I think it's just a silly song. It's just a joke. I get like let's move on. I feel like people have the internet are going to say they're going to make an assumption about me like tiffany doesn't understand how boys are objectify. Women are you know and they take it so much. I don't think that's the case at all. I think we can agree. That first and foremost we parent our children. The way we choose based on the based on the belief system that we have done. That's how we feel. That's what you know like. That's what we'll do like super perfect example of of how to parents feel differently about something now. Maybe this isn't a perfect example. But it's an example. We'll save it's any good so we went and we took the kids clothes shopping for camp And dave got super pissed because The total at old navy was like three hundred something bucks again all the summer clothes for the kids so he starts he makes us go to the car and he pulls the receipt out and he starts to tell us everything that was too much that we have to. Now go back and return after. We just left the because he's like a whole lot. No i'm cutting off here because you even you said oh. I didn't look at the price of these. Okay so can let me finish. Because i'm because i'm because there's going to be your let me finish my story. So he starts reading the description of the item right on the receipt next to the total and it says crop top. And dave says what the f. sophia a crop top for twenty four dollars and i said okay first of all. I didn't buy any crop tops. I didn't know it was twenty four dollars. Let's find the shirt. Well everything now for some reason is labeled a crop top. The shirt covers everything. I had her trial of this on. I looked at them. I don't know if there's a specific style where the crop to where it literally was just at the camp pant waist pant. Do you know what i'm saying. I think it just means that it's cut instead of a seam at the bottom. Yes so it came right down to her button on her pants and if she were to lift her arms there is maybe this much belly showing right like it wasn't like this much belly showing but it's considered a crop top right but i looked at it and i was like this is a t shirt. It's fine now. It was twenty four dollars. It got returned and sophia threw a fit about it. But i didn't look at the prices because she's so hard to shop for when i found something that she would wear. I just said put it in the cart. Put it in the car. Like i'm not having this argument we'd already been in the store two hours so then he made made us take it all back in return and his to him so we looked at differently right so he saw crop and his head exploded. I saw the the crop top and was like no. This is acceptable right. Did you see what i'm saying. So it's like everybody has a different. Yeah i'm so. He put a message out and he said i'm blessed to be the father of two amazing daughters. I wrote a song poking fun at myself for being overprotective dad and my family thought it was funny. That's exactly how i personally took it. That's the song was created as satire. And i realized that some people did not receive it as what was intended. I've taken the feedback to heart. The last thing i want is to distract from the real reason why i make music to spread a message of hope and love to the world. Yeah so that's how. I took it as an overprotective dad. I didn't take it as deeper than that. I didn't take it as a worldwide message. And i know that that's necessary. In order for change to happen. I get it but i think this dad deserves a break. Yeah so that was just. I just thought it would be interesting to talk about that. So we're we're moving on Here that our last story of the day is this tick talker. Whose name is miranda arbogast. And she's a stay at home mom and the hashtag in her tick-tock is hashtag parenting advice. Hashtag panic attack which just embodies every parent right there. Eric go ahead and play it. I just had a question for all the stay home. Moms out there. How do you get done on a day to day. Basis in not lose i have so much they would get it done because we won't stop a cleanroom they up within minutes it back box. They don't the box days like this fucking friends. I have nobody else to come out me to be. Besides my mom event. Just pathetic is what is it like the over to be able to breathe out you do it. Should i start day drinking this poor woman this poor woman so i'm not i'm laughing as i'm listening to this not at her at all because i feel her so deeply in my bones and i see her like i see you in your entirety. Like i see everything about you. Because i remember i first of all of all first of all every mom loses their like on the daily so unfortunately for her. I don't have. I've zero advice but i can tell you that you're not alone in feeling those feelings. It sounds like she has little kids. Yeah 'cause she's talking about them dumping out boxes make 'cause like my kids are older but they still make a hot damn mess and the second. I cleaned the house. It's destroyed because they're leaving their crap everywhere. They're walking through the house with their shoes on or they're doing whatever But it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't end and you still keep losing your now. I think as they grow up there are there are moments that change where we find the ability to breathe a little bit but like your parents like. I don't know that you ever really stop losing your sh like i want to give her a hug. So bad i've when she was talking. I i just wanted to hug her. Because i've freaking get in. I admire her for like. I think the world has shifted in a way. That people are being much more vocal about this stuff. I message. i couldn't message her. Because on talk i guess somebody has to follow you to be able to message them and she doesn't follow me so i wasn't allowed to send her a message. Rude i so. I tried to message her on facebook and the weirdest thing happened on facebook. Yesterday i couldn't tag. Her name wouldn't allow me to tagger. So i was trying to be like. Hey i saw your tick-tock video. And i was like i told people on facebook like over and follow her on talk because she's she like i was like she just embodied what being a stay at home mama's on yeah i was like oh follow her because clearly. She's the real deal. When my kids were that age. I was drowning justice sane. But nobody was talking about it at that time like no. Every time i looked on social media. Everything looks looked so good and perfect. And that's why. I started juggling the jenkins because i was like holy shit. I'm failing dude. And the same reason you started yours. And so many people start because the world needs us and so the fact that she got out there in front of people and spoke so openly and honestly she opened herself up to a wave of understanding and like souls and she opened herself up to help. And that's huge and that that's so great and i get it man. You're but so what i always say is. It's like seasons their seasons of parenting. There's that young toddler where you're just drowning. You don't know who you are. You're leaking from all kinds of weird places. You hate your spouse if you have one it's just it's it's miserable. It's a blur. And then they moved to the next season where they're more independent like. My kids are at the next season. They can be in a room without me. I don't have to be in there. I could be downstairs. They could be upstairs and it's unjust realizing this like holy crap i don't have to constantly Watch them to make sure. They're not put in their mouths or sticking right things in places factly so we had. Eric and trae came for a visit. A couple of hours on saturday i feel And so i got to see callie and mason and it was hilarious because they like walk into the house and it was like tornado. Like you forget you forget how little little kids are and they run around. And i'm just looking at the and it was like a a pinball machine you know it was like bing bing bing bing bing and i was like you know but then you realize oh. That's that's normal. But not for me. Because i don't live in that season anymore. Now it's a lot of why do you hate me. Why do you want to ruin my life. Why are you the worst person in the world. And it's like i don't know because that's what i decided to do today. I just wanted to ruin your life. So you know mason still a wild animal. Oh yeah but he's he's gonna be five in september so he's so big he's getting so big and kelly is just so stinking cute. I saw my gosh. I just wanna i just wanna ear face. She's just so he's beautiful And so cute and she let me hold her and hug her. And i don't. She didn't remember me but she was kind enough to not throw a fit when i asked to hold her so i swam what. They're in the pool for a little bit and kind of held my hand. So she's super. She's super cute. They're just such such cute kids so it was. It was really nice to see them. And hopefully we'll get to see them again when we go down to the Port charlotte shows so Here's a reminder. If you wanna get tickets to our new show my name is not mom you can head on over to www dot. My name is not mom dot com where we have. The jacksonville shows the port charlotte shows and the tampa shows all up for sale. Dates are for jacksonville. July twentieth through the twenty second port. Charlotte is august. Third and fourth tampa is august. Sixth seventh and eighth so go check it out now and grab your tickets. Let's give amanda some tickets. I don't know where does she live. What's her landa maranda. Yeah i don't know where she lives. What's her name maranda arbogast. I don't know where she lives. But you'd have to figure that out also. I was in the store the other day. And it's m. a. r. a. n. Are you talking to dave. Yeah I was in the store the other day and this woman kept looking at me. And she's like you look so familiar and i was like not sure and she said She said no. You really really look for a million. And i never say. Maybe you've seen me on facebook. Because i follows me on talk. Should i send her a massive. Yeah so. I never say. I never say. Maybe you've seen me on facebook. Because i don't know your business. I don't know that you saw ma'am facebook. Maybe i just like your bank teller. Like i dunno right so dave always yells at me and say just say. Maybe you've seen me on facebook so you know what i say you know what. Maybe you've seen my videos on facebook. And she goes. Oh what's your facebook page. That's probably it. So she pulls it up and she goes nope that's not it. That's your wait. Wait then she says. I know who you are your that friend of tiffany jenkins. She's really famous on facebook. Shut up she's nuts. Yes she did. And i stood there in the public line and i said this is the exact reason that i never say to anybody. You've maybe seen me on facebook because knows she. That's tiffany jenkins friend. Oh my god. And i said yes. I am tiffany jenkins friend. That's what's on my business card. it's gonna go on my tombstone. I was like yes i am. That's what i go by. I'm i'm brian. Sophia matias mom and tiffany jenkins friend. And that listen next time just be like we are not friends cannot stand her. she's actually a real big. No i died. I sat there. And i was just like that. That is. I knew. I knew exactly where this was going. Yep yep yep. I said that's it. She's yes she's my friend. Yep not you need to tell them the truth. Say i taught her everything. She knows literally wouldn't be where she is. If it were not not even a little bit true. But i die every time that happens because it's not happened once it's not happened twice and it's not happened thrice it has happened so many times. I remember being in walmart and it happening and public. We'll be out and it's like oh they'll recognize you and then we'll be like oh you're her friend right and it's like now my favorite part of any encounters no matter what degree of it is. I don't even look at the encounter anymore. I just turn and watch sophia. She is her her face just tells a story she's like oh is she annoyed. It's just so funny. Oh my god. No mention tiffany jenkins in her face. Alight up and then. I love her. What dave what do you do that happens. Stand there so introduced. So i'm a little crazy and when i walk into places i look around and when people walk into places i am i check out. What's going on so i try to pay attention stuff around and what i think i'd mentioned before what i will usually see. Is someone look look away. Look again without their phone. Frantic scroll on their own hair. Yeah and then and then you see him do a couple of takes again going back and forth and then it's like you know and but it's funny drew takes off just leaves he frigging leaves and i'm like he doesn't love me. This is so rude. I like his his. And i'm like i'd like to introduce you like he will. This one has a few times been life. Let's go meet for coffee. And i'm like well. You're nuts meredith. So i started me for coffee. Talk about the weather. Have to track going to be the first thing that i bring up to be like. How's everybody enjoying the seventy percent humidity today. Feels like out here I cheat high tracker phone. I had to drive by one time. He daddy issues gone for an our and coffee with someone. Do it all the time. People me and i'm just like yeah. You wanna have a cup of coffee. Why not why. What's what's the big deal like people just conversation conversation about wet weather. Squirrels birds daf. I could never so. I have to go and and it's it's not even know i couldn't with anybody even my friends who i've known for years. They're like do you want to go for coffee. I'm like i want a copy. But i wanted to talk to you. Yeah now i like to. I like to do it with somebody comes through town. I'll i'll make a lunch date. It's like all right. You want to go to lunch so sweet. I wish i was like that talking to people and doesn't like talking to me so i have to find others. I'm always in. I just stare at you like when we go places and it's amazes me like when we were doing that comedy standup thing tell everybody. Am i exaggerating. When i say. I was literally hiding like in a i was trying to hide like i was facing just a wall like qripoli just staring at the wall this far away while you're like a butterfly just brew brew to different people. And i'm like what the hell. I couldn't even go to the bathroom by myself. I'm like please come with me. We touched feet while we peed. We try to underneath. And i was like i'm here. Tiffany and our converse sneakers touched each other. I was like. I knew that would get you to laugh because you were so tense. And i was like our toes or touching owes q. while urinating. So we're so different. We're so different. Yeah but i. I mean but that's what makes things work. Yeah i love it. I just think that's what makes the makes the world go round but all right. We got to wrap this up. We got his net to do. We have a meeting. We have meetings meetings meetings y'all meetings meetings meetings and we're getting ready for this. My name is not mom tour and you guys got to get ready gots to get your tickets. Yeah yeah look at my cats. Yeah i see them on the guy for a silent coffee date where we don't talk and i get cocoa and i would love that we just don't talk but drink coffee. That's in line with my sleep party. Oh my gosh stop trying to tell people that you want to sleep with them. No no like literally sleep. He wants to have a party. Where it's like shots benadryl. Everybody go to bed. I'm like that's not a party that the that sounds like a great time. I told you. I was walking through home. Depot and the home depot employees. This was like a month ago. I've been saying this for years. They're like i'm so tired we should have a party but where we just all that and i was like hell you okay. That's enough. I'm i'll come. Can i bring my c-pap be what is it. B. y. o. C. bringing all right all right well make sure to join us next week for another episode of take it or leave it and advice ish podcast for parents hosted by two struggling moms to have no. We're doing see guys next time love you bye.

meredith mason tiffany jenkins facebook maranda arbogast dave champlain champlain angela gonzalez melissa kiko Kiwi co miami kiwi co matias florida matisse enron Adad meredith
Puppy Socialization

How Do You Train That?

19:39 min | 2 years ago

Puppy Socialization

"The. You're listening to how do you train that? The place were advice and encouragement for people interested in learning. More about positive reinforcement training, you can interact with us on our Facebook page. How do you train that leave some questions and comments, and we will put those topics into our feature podcast so pitcher feet up. And let's get started. Welcome everybody. I am cat Camplin. Hello. This is Becca hits. And we are here with Jamie who Lynn is human, Hugh, Lynn, Hugh, Lynn. Hi, jamie. I. We are here to talk about puppy, socialization, all things puppy. So Jamie wanted to start with a getting a little bit of information about yourself. Okay. I started training somewhere around the against mid seventies. It was my first dog tried to get into a class down the street at one of the local trainers. And she taught me a lot about dogs and training and Bayden. I found out a lot of the stuff that she told me somewhere around the late eighties was actually wrong and the NFL Dr Ian Dunbar. And Dr Dunbar changed my life, and he switched me over from being a old yanking crank kind of trainer to positive reinforcement. And then I got my independent certification in two thousand ten finally when I could afford it and took the test became CBD TK a through the. See CPT certification council, and then I became a member of APD t- the association professional bug trainers. I'm supporting member of ADC, I've been on FOX forty news. If you times once with my dog Argo the wonder dog and couple times by myself. I work for a large pet store is where I work at now. And I have a lot of fun. And it's it's one of those things that it's makes me very glad when I see people understand their dogs better and have better relationship with them than when I used to experience back way back in the day. Yes. I always sort of had a question about the term crossover because it's not like you step over the line. It's a process factory. It's it's not like you're going the ladies at the end of the tunnel in you, just go. There are so many things along the way I hit click retrained, most of the competitive, obedient stuff except healing. Because I didn't know how to do it without the pop, and I did that for a long time. Like, my dog was completely click retraining on the retrieve insent articles and all that stuff. But I was still using a Jake. So it is a long process, and you figured it out. Did you figure it out? I did. You know, and it's a way of seeing right? So as a correction, trainers or balanced trainers were sorta geared towards looking for what the dog is done wrong and waiting for that to happen. So that we can correct it instead of preventing it from the beginning actually seeing the good that happens before the bad happens. So it's much more. Away of seeing than away training. And for me. The hardest part was getting rid of this pop muscles. Like it took forever. Not ill that pressure. On a leash into pop back. National memory is strong strong. So we were came today to talk about puppy socialization. And I think the first question is when is that socialization period, the big critical socialization socialization period is anywhere between three to four weeks old and about twelve weeks. Oh, that's what you could get easy socialization easy. You can still do it afterwards. But it's much harder. Because at around twelve weeks when we see a lot of fear starting in the dog. So if they've never seen a plastic bag blown in the wind. They'll start to alert to it and wonder what the heck is that? And then at twelve weeks to sixteen weeks, I tell people that's when your. For your door -tunities too easily. Socialize them starch to close at. I think I'd be helped hope to actually define socialization because I think for a lot of people at means, oh, we're gonna take them to puppy class in. They're gonna learn to play with other dogs, and that's marketed as a puppy socialization class that that's not necessarily all socialization. No, it's getting used to people of all sizes people of all ages different types of dogs, also sands, smells and textures. Because if if you don't get them used to other things like there used to walking on grass, for example, then you try to take them across a pebbled area. They don't know what that is. What's underfoot? I don't necessarily want them to go out. Just let them have a free for all that socialization party happy's 'cause they can actually get a lot of bad experiences there, depending. Other dogs that are actually in the the socialization party veterenarians are worried about the dog dying from preventable disease. It's that is a completely legitimate caution yet for the dog trainer or the behavior. Arbogast vir is a dog dime because bid kid in the face. Yup. So it's it is in that is a legitimate concern. That you have euthanasia for behavior problems. That are completely preventable. We need to work together to do this and part of that is to create safe socialization and going to safe places and making it as safe as possible while exposing it so that we're not also exposing it to disease for those that are going to exposures outside of socialization class. But one of the things that I always recommend going into new places your car, the vet's office park speeches shopping areas places we have downtown square where lots of people walk by lots of dogs and locks cars. I keep strollers on hand that I loaned to my clients. So that we can throw the dogs in stroller when they're vaccine's aren't complaint take them out, and let them experience everything without putting them at risk. -actly? Exactly, I try to tell them look when you're out in about, you know, you could carry your puppy and things like that you can even go to different places take a blanket cover, whatever the dog is going to be a in say a basket or something like if you go into the pet store, something put your blanket in that basket, you go into a vet office. You don't have to necessarily make an appointment. You could actually go just into the inside the door carrying them in have receptionist and stuff have them actually, give them a treat. Let the dog here and smell the sounds that are going on. And then leave same thing if you're gonna use agreement later on he need to find a primer that you can kind of get to know, and the actually your Pepe can get to know that groomer to its acting Negga always important to remember what season you have peppy right now, I have several clients with Pepys and they're getting socialized to umbrellas raincoats. People wearing long bulky things rubber boots. But when I have summer puppies people forget about that. And. We need to expose our summer puppies to the same things at the same time for our our puppies that are being raised in the winter. What things are you going to do in the summer whenever I sit down with a new client? We actually do a lifestyle plan. How do you live your life? So that I can figure out what this puppy needs to learn. So that they can fit into this family in the lifestyle that they live one of the things we haven't touched on is handling your puppy has to be able to go to the vet Jamie talked about the groomer if they need to go to the vet and get examined and they're not used to having their body touched or somebody checking out their their anus their heirs there is their teeth. That's gonna be a challenging experience. But that's something that we work on with socializing puppies. It's about handling us. Well, guess also I start right about now is when I start getting them to understand fourth of July coming. Yep. And he we're gonna have a lot of explosions if you're anybody like mine abors, so. Oh, I tell them go to the internet and going YouTube and find, you know, fourth of July celebrations, you could also found all kinds of noises there, I know that different places like the curious still wills a website things. Like that sells sandals. You can also get a sound CD to play and that way, you control the volume, and that's great and YouTube is a great place to do know that there is the trash truck YouTube channel. We can find nor track. Do your beat on the trash truck to Chan. Completely awesome. You could find things on you. Well, and the thing about it as if you have a puppy that is a little softer perhaps a little challenged by noise. One of the things I love to do as I use you too. And I started on my phone with the volume turned down low, and we get the puppy to realize that this is a fun noise. It doesn't mean anything scary. But if I threw it on my television at, you know, the surround sound loud level, I would just totally destroy that Pepi. So you have to look at the puppy. You're working with and say, okay, what does this puppy need, another one? I really work on again this goes to lifestyle if I make a young couple or young single person with a puppy, it never occurs to them that that dog needs to be socialized to babies crying. We can find that on YouTube to toddlers because if they've got a puppy at twenty five there's a good chance at thirty. There might be a baby coming into this picture, and we need to think ahead. And again, that's why we look at the lifestyle. They're planning to lead because we have to plan for that. So for my clients, I do a lot of puppies them. Yes. I I actually I love working with them. And then coming home and keeping my shoes. I get my puppy fix about. Actually, you know, having one in my house. So what we talk about is sort of separating their target socialization checklist towards what their lifestyles gonna be and I break that down into sounds. So we're looking at lawnmowers leaf blowers fireworks sirens. All of that stuff. Tragic on cleaners back in cleaners. Right. So were looking at the sounds that they will be experiencing in their life. If there is a boat in their life to come the the, boat, engines and all that stuff. Good. We then look at things that move things that might be kind of scary bikes skateboards again, the lawnmowers weird men in backpacks. Are right slapping flags on is one that I've seen some sensitively to other things that. Balloons. Things that moved right? And there's things that they will be writing in on right? So kayaks boats are these meeting all kinds of people what kind of people are going to be in their life. Are they going to be, you know, on a Walker so number of my older plants now have their parents who can no longer live by themselves or now in the house in their walking with walkers in their Ganal chairs so again things that move coupled with people and other dogs, right? So dogs behind fences barking at them learning how to ignore those and have appropriately played with donkey friends yet or anything else on my list that you guys mentioned I think people moving toddlers are fast, and they they run a lot. And so I really work on people moving, and if I have somebody that's doing yoga the dog needs to learn that, that's okay. Moms allowed to stand on her head. And it's not a scary thing. A lot of times when we have puppies. We tend to put them away when we're doing our normal activities. So we can get it done, but they need to see those things. So if you have a spouse that works in a shop with power, tools, the puppy needs to go out there for few minutes from a distant see what's going on and learned that it's no big deal. The number of dogs. I get that have an issue with brooms, you know, when we sweep the floor because you always put the puppy away while you claimed and now they're not sure that that's such a great thing. So I really emphasize we have to let our dogs. See us live life yet. I forgot about wildlife. Yes. So in my area, we have we have the Canadian geese that just sort of like Landon air yard munching in the deer that come in and start munching. We're headed into rattlesnake season. And when a by puppy clients showed up at his back door with. Frog legs sticking out of his mouth. So they also need to be exposed that that living moving things aren't toys it end how to differentiate what they can play with him. They can't play with. And we got to get them used to just typical animals. I don't really have a lot of deer coming through my yard fit somewhere in the city limits, but I do have to when I go to the capital there is the mounted police, and so more Caeser there if I'm out visiting someone of theirs cows cats some had one person that had a parakeet in their house. And I haven't get my understand. So the dog had understand what birds and everything were. So what's the weirdest thing that you have had to desensitize? Now that you think now so I had I have a good one for this. I donate behavior several rescues, and I have a theater company that if I will train a dog to perform a production. They will advertise extensively the rescue for me. And we donate money back to the rescue. And so I always try to use a rescue dog. And I had a Yorkie twelve across that we chose to perform in Anne. Are not Anne was her boss and Charley was a lovely little dog given up by his family for some potty issues. Some basic stuff he did not walk on floors. He walked on carpet will at the time. I had full carpets in the house, and we went out the back door, and then I always picked him up to carry out the front door. And I didn't catch it until we went to the theater for his first dress rehearsal set him down he wouldn't move. And I thought wait a minute. And his old house was all carpet. I brought him home. I put him on my floor. He wouldn't move. I set him on the carpet. He ran crazy. So I had to desensitize him too hard floors. So that he could be Tono and it worked, but it was a really good wakeup call. Never leave anything to the last minute. I did have a dog that was not did not like Santa Claus. And then one time they took him to store that had Easter bunny and the and the head of the Easter bunny. Of course, he is don't move anything. Then they got these ears and they just stay ended stare at the dog. Yeah. And so we had to take the head put it on the floor. Get them used to it it lifted up put it on the person which ended up being me in the head was way too. Big for me. But I still had to put it on. And then take it off. But little things like that. Don't think about it's going on especially like Santa Claus. Yes. Cat which the we're descend you've ever had. Let's see I had a four month old standard poodle that was suddenly incredibly afraid of fire hydrants that went on. I guess they look like stint stiffler children with their arms out. Funny in the night hod. One of my clients sister had a pig statue in the backyard that I had to desensitize let the dog know that it wasn't evil not gonna eat him. Yeah. I just think it was just a stiff again, the stiffness, you know, a thing that they know but doesn't move right? So the statue was quite realistic looking in, you know, it looks like an animal and it had little tail and has a face is. But it's not moving. In the same thing with the fire hydrant stick things that they should be moving part. So last thoughts on socialization that it's important for this. It's a critical socializing stage. And it's called that for a reason if there's anything you wanna do to make a lifetime of success with your dog. It's socialize your puppy. We'd like to thank Jamie Hewlett for joining us to discuss puppy socialization today. Pup by our Facebook page by searching for how do you train that? And leave a message or a comment or give us an idea for a topic for future podcast. In the meantime, train your dog.

Jamie Hewlett YouTube Facebook Dr Ian Dunbar Lynn FOX Bayden APD NFL Anne Hugh Argo Arbogast vir Landon air Pepe Chan
Cyberespionage follows South Asian conflict. LockBits $50 million demand. Insider risk. Trend Micro warns unpatched Apex is under attack. PrintNightmare persists. Google and Apple on privacy.

The CyberWire

28:12 min | Last month

Cyberespionage follows South Asian conflict. LockBits $50 million demand. Insider risk. Trend Micro warns unpatched Apex is under attack. PrintNightmare persists. Google and Apple on privacy.

"Now a message from our sponsor cyber reason cybersecurity defenders. Don't fear ransomware. They end it with cyber reason defenders detect and stop ransomware that even others miss a promise backed by their one million dollar breach warranty at cyber reason. They don't fear in somewhere they end it. Learn more at cyber reason dot com reverse rat is back and better ended sniffing at afghanistan. Lock bit wants fifty million dollars from accenture when employees leave. Do they take your data with them on patched apex one. Instances are under active attack. Print nightmare continues to resist patching. Google bands safe graph apple. Explains what's up with cloud privacy. Caleb barlow wonders if ransomware payments are financing criminal infrastructure in russia. Arbogast is oliver. Rochford from secure onyx on the notion of cyber war and a cynic ransomware gang re brands from the cyber wire studios at data tribe. I'm dave vitner with your cyber wires. Summary for friday august thirteenth twenty twenty one lumens black lotus labs report that reverse rat which is as its name implies. A remote access trojan is out in an evolved version that has added functionality. Such as taking remote photos via webcams and retrieving files on usb devices inserted into the compromise machines reverse rat two point oh is believed to be operated by a threat actor in pakistan and its principal targets have been government and energy organizations in south asia especially afghanistan but with a smaller number of other attacks observed in india iran and jordan the ongoing turmoil in pakistan's neighbours suggests an obvious reason for making collection against afghanistan a priority. The present campaign appears to have begun on june twenty eighth reverse rat two point. Zero is currently accompanied by more evasive version of the pre bod h. t. a loader designed in particular to avoid detection by kaspersky and quick. He'll security products. Lotus labs has also identified another agent night fury that replaced the ala core rat previously used in tandem with earlier versions of reverse rat. The infection mechanism has usually been a phishing email baited with a pdf file. That misrepresents itself as the agenda for united nations meeting on organized crime. Cybele has found communications from lock bit in which the gang claims to have taken more than six terabytes of data from accenture and in which they demand fifty million dollars in ransom lock bit also claims they obtained access from a rogue insider who still employed by the company while cybele notes that lock bid has been advertising for corrupt insiders willing to betray their organizations. Trust the firm thinks that in this case the gangs claims are unlikely to be true. Accenture has an issued any significant statements about the incident beyond its early reports of having contained it with minimal damage lock bid has indeed followed through with its threat to release some of the stolen data but as security week observes the material released so far at least does not appear particularly sensitive code forty. Two's analysis of security trends in the first half of twenty twenty one finds that insider risks are surging during what the firm calls the great resignation employee. Churn the current sellers labor market is generating so people are leaving their place of employment. So what well. According to code forty two. Here's what when they leave. The company information often leaves with them. This trend in the labor market is reinforced by two other trends increased data portability and more widespread remote work anonymous telemetry from seven hundred thousand points running code forty two tools in the first half of twenty twenty one have shown a strong correlation between data exposure and employees departure code forty two notes to other trends that suggest a greater insider risk more exposure of source code and more data incidents involving removable media like usb drives. Both of these suggests that people within organizations are the source of the exposure correlation with employee. Turnover is unlikely to be a matter of mere accident so think about off boarding and take some time to help people understand that. Proprietary material isn't necessarily their property trend micro says that it seemed signs of threat. Actors attempting to exploit vulnerabilities in the company's apex. One security products trend micro address the flaws with patches issued on july twenty eighth. The company has said quote trend micro has observed an active attempt of exploitation against two of these vulnerabilities in the wild in a very limited number of instances and we have been in contact with these customers already. All customers are strongly encouraged to update to the latest versions as soon as possible. The windows vulnerability known as print nightmare is proving surprisingly resistant to the fixes. That have been applied. Microsoft released a warning at mid week. After this month's patch tuesday which address this family of vulnerabilities saying that a remote code execution vulnerability exists when the windows prince buhler service improperly performed privileged file operations an attacker who successfully exploited. This vulnerability could run arbitrary code with system privileges. An attacker could then install programs view change or delete data or create new accounts with full user rights. There's no new patch yet. Although redmond is working on it microsoft says that the work around for this vulnerability is stopping and disabling the print spoiler service and of course since the perfect can often be the enemy of the good users should also apply the fix microsoft. Publish this tuesday and not wait for a complete solution to print nightmare microsoft. We point out in full. Disclosure is a cyber wire sponsor to privacy stories of interests. Come out of silicon valley will take mountain view first and then move on over to cupertino. Google has banned safe graph a data location firm from its ecosystem which means that developers must remove any of safe graphs code from their apps if they wished to continue to distribute their software in google. Store the move is part of the company's larger effort against location data collection firms that seek to get app developers to include data harvesting code. Better to collect information for sale to companies and governments as vice reports quote safe graph collected. At least some of its location data by having app developers imbed the companies code or software development kit into their own apps. Those apps would then track the physical location of their users. Which safe graph would repackage and then sell to other parties. Google confirmed to motherboard. Told app in early june. They had seven days to remove safe graphs. Sdk from their apps. If they didn't do this. Google told motherboard. The apps may face enforcement this can mean removal from the play store itself and quote and over in. Cupertino apple continues. Its attempts to explain why it's recent child protection measures don't amount to an abandonment of the company's commitment to privacy so they suggest out cupertino way that what we have here is a failure to communicate in a wall. Street journal exclusive this morning by reporters. Joanna stern and tim higgins apple senior vice president of software engineering craig. Federal reiki explained how the company intended to preserve privacy while enforcing measures against child exploitation part of the confusion federica attributed to the essential simultaneous announcement of two distinct tools. One of them identifies known and the emphasis should firmly be on known explicit images of children uploaded to the i. Cloud storage service. The other tool gives parents more powerful ways of keeping tabs on the images. Their children share through text messages. The simultaneous launch probably led many to conflate the two and to envision them as amounting to a single infusion of privacy threatening functionality into the apple ecosystem federica told the journal quote. It's really clear a lot of messages. Got jumbled pretty badly in terms of how things were understood. We wish that this would have come out a little more clearly for everyone because we feel very positive and strongly about what we're doing and quote federica says the new tools don't amount to a digital panopticon. He said people. Zych cloud storage isn't going to be continuously monitored and rummaged for whatever content apple might find objectionable instead apple will be notified when a certain threshold is reached in terms of the number of images uploaded and only then will it look the images are specifically identified and appear in a database of known child exploitation pictures. The ultimate guarantor of privacy for the new system apple says will be the multiple levels of audit. The company has put in place. So it's not a back door and doesn't involve intrusion into a user's device. I think no ways a back door. i don't i don't understand. I really don't understand that characterization. Imagine imagine someone scanning images in the cloud. Well who knows what's being scanned for. In our case the database shipped on device people can see an. It's a single image. Across all countries we shipped the same software in china with the same database as we ship in america as we ship in europe. If someone were to come to apple apple would say no. But let's say you aren't confident you don't wanna you don't want to just rely on apple say now you want to be sure that apple couldn't get away with it if we said yes well. That was the bar we set for ourselves in releasing this kind of system there multiple levels of audit ability. and so. we're making sure that you don't have to trust anyone entity or even anyone country as far as how these images are what images are part of this process and of course go to the wall street journal to read and listen to the whole thing and finally. There's been another transition in the ransomware subsector of the criminal marketplace the record reports that the gang formerly known as cynic has released decryption keys for ransomware. It used between july twenty seventeen and the early of this year. It's not however as sign that. These cynic operators have grown conscience. They've simply rebranded. As e kata are retiring their old code and are moving on to new ransomware. As a service products they hope will enable them to gain a healthy share of this seat to see market. Although cynic is one of the older ransomware gangs out there. They've badly lagged several of their younger competitors like that gang formerly known as are evil may have seen in the news lately. Now a word from our sponsor barracuda a year ago. Your business may have been part of that. Massive shift to remote working employees ever since cybercriminals have been working overtime now. They're leveraging activity around the kobe vaccine to disguise phishing attacks hoping to steal money or personal information. That can cost you. Customers hundreds of thousands of dollars and your reputation in the marketplace. Your email gateway is good for stopping viruses. But you're defenseless against targeted attacks like fishing account takeover and hijacking the barracuda. Email thread scanner is a free tool. You can use right now to help protect employees your business and your customers. The barracuda email threat scanner analyzes. Your office three sixty five accounts and identifies militias emails that slipped past your gateway find the cybersecurity threats that are hiding in your office. Three sixty five email right now. Use the barracuda email threat scanner for free at barracuda dot com slash cyber wire. That's barracuda dot com slash cyber wire and we thank barracuda for sponsoring our show. There's active discussion in cybersecurity over the appropriate use of terms like cyber war and cyber weapons. When and under what circumstances if any these are the right words to us and if not then what are better options joining me to help unpack. This is oliver. Rochford senior director and security subject matter expert at secure onyx so i think that two definitions of our time right as an international legal definition which belongs to the realm of policy and actual warfare. Which would definitely not not hitting if you look at the the the kind of the Statement that was given out today but uk The us eu. They were very careful to call it systematic cyber sabotage. And that's because how can you have a cyber war without an actual war you know has been no war declaration and more importantly this whole issue is being confused pune simply by the fact. Bottom of course is mixed between civilian. I'm between essentially was military government and public infrastructure and so does confusing the issue for sure but if we think in terms of describing offensive actions within the realm of cyber. I think it's it's now naptime. It's one which we can use. And where do you suppose things are headed. Where do you suppose i don't know. Is it possible to imagine a future state of equilibrium here so the future state or solution to this. It's not going to be technological in reality. Almost every nation state is glass counter. We can successfully attack. We can't successfully defend the attack. Surface is mixed civilian and government. And so we can't even defend it sufficiently barring some kind of light year four would jump in terms of ai. Which i'll be honest. I don't see coming right now. We're improving it's relatively. The solution is going to be based on agreements and that is purely and simply because there's a lot of state here right now. It's just a little bit of competitiveness but going forward. It's about whether we're going to have the same going forward next fifty years we've had the last fifty years where we have been very open about sharing innovation and technology. And i believe that's that's the biggest Thing that stake about if we don't agree on solving miss outside of the technological sphere everyone is going to go back into a motive protectionism not sharing ripi. Is there an area here. That has you particularly concerned. Is there any area that you feel is in getting the proper attention. It deserves so right now. I think that our attempts to deal. With this unevenly distributed the weakest link is going to essentially jeopardize everybody so i i'd like to see us sham more of these approaches definitely in europe with the us. I would say worldwide in terms of how we can avoid confrontation. I don't think anyone can win. In the long term out of this is something where once we stop sharing all of the information especially if we want to work with it's about huge amounts of data sharing going. It alone is probably not going to be a valid way even for a giant trauma. I think one thing which which is very important to keep in mind with this entire thing around cyber war is it's very visible so what i mean by that is reporting on advair whole lot of parties who are only have partial information. So i think there's a lot of misinformation in this. I think there's also a lot of exaggeration in terms of what can actually happen at the same time the true impact this. I'm not sure if it's been reported on well we're always looking at these anecdotes incidents things which have happened. You know. we're looking at iran israel. Because that's about the only halt cyber war we have in the moment. We had ukraine russia. Which i think would qualify to a certain degree but we always trying to look in the ramp view mirror. This is not how it's going to work right now. Is his cat and mouse game. Going on of people building apostles of all parties during a pass knows all of them laying back does loom lane logic bombs and there is no cyber war. Independent of kinetic war. The truth is we're going to see the first cyber war in the first couple of minutes in next week netting and it's just going to be part of the whole but it's going to be very decisive. I think if you can disable the infrastructure of your opponent don't need to throw a bomb was true to single shot starting this that's oliver rochford from secure onyx. It's time to take a moment to tell you about our sponsor looking glass a global leader in cybersecurity. Just a quick glance at recent news reminds us that cyberthreat actors are becoming more sophisticated organized and deliberate the reputational financial and operational damages from these attacks are increasing at a truly alarming rate. How is your organization ensuring that your defense is stay a step ahead of the cyber-attacks looking glass can help you tailor your threat intelligence to ever changing attack vectors and adversaries tailored threat models help your security team works smarter more efficiently and proactively to optimize your cybersecurity investments. Find out how your organization can develop customized threat models at looking glass cyber dot com slash cyber wire and we thank looking glass for sponsoring. Our show am pleased to be joined once again by caleb barlow. He is the ceo at synergistic tech Caleb we are seeing. I would say it's fair to say a ramping up of ransomware payments. So we had had noticed. Dave really we had j. b. s I think it was eleven. Million colonial pipeline Legend has it was five million dollars. What happens on the other side of this when when that money is being invested on the other side What's your take on that. Well dave i had one of those moments. Where i was thinking about silly things and i'm like what could you do with that kind of money in moscow and this wasn't some indepth research but i gotta tell you it's pretty interesting so you take take the case of colonial pipeline right so the justice department got two point. Three million back thought is that was probably came back from one. Eighty affiliate payments is at least the kind of prevailing ideas. Probably the case. But what can you do with a few million dollars in moscow. Well i don't know about you dave but if you're kind of a cool bad guy like the first thing i'm gonna do get that kinda hall by a car right so yeah you know a lamborghini. If you want the lambeau dave. And i think i think you would look good in the lambeau with the top down about a degree with you there. Okay about a quarter million. Us if you're more of a porsche guy. That's more of one hundred thousand dollars. Us and issue but in some cases interestingly enough the prices for these new cars are actually cheaper than here in the us. Now the second thing we need to do dave we throw a party right. I mean i'm thinking. Try to blow blowout banned women. Whatever you're into let's say that runs. I mean listen. It's another hundred k. Right i mean we need a party right so we bought the house. We need a house now right. I mean we're we're gonna throw the party. I don't know about you. But i'm not going to rent a place. We need a fun house so let's just by the darn thing and luxury homes in moscow. Aren't actually all that expensive. I think we need a place to the pool. What you think. Yeah of course. That's another quarter mil. So we bought the car the house the party but you know. Let's get back to business dave. We yeah you know. I mean this is a business right. We can have some fun but we need more developers and engineers for the next attack so Let's say we spent the two fifty on cars. Because we got you the lambeau another two fifty funhouse hundred counterparty. Well that's only six hundred k. So in the case of j. b. s. We had eleven million total. Well about half of that goes to the affiliate we kind of know that right so we got it. We pay off the people that help us get there. Sure stars fair. Fair's fair so let's just say to use round numbers that least for the cool five mil off of this to put an engineers development needs future attacks office space. Whatever you can get a software engineer in moscow for under twenty thousand dollars a year. But i don't know about you. But i'm not hiring average people like well. You got to spend money to make money right caleb. that's we want to. We want to fun culture right so let's just assume we're going to pay him double that we're going to pay a thousand a year so donald aron chairs and we know that the budget we may need to add that we need news. Balls snacks foosball. Sort of that. Five million dollars funds a team of one hundred twenty five developers for an entire year. Wow one foosball. That's a lot of foosball. So the point year. Dave is when you pay a ransom of that size and i'm not picking on anybody. That's paid a ransom before. But this is the problem when you pay a ransom of that size. You're literally the series b. round venture capitalist for the next attack that's targeting the entire sector right. You are literally the venture capitalist for the bad guys when you pay a ransom of that saas okay. So that's the reality disaster had put you on either side of the equation when it comes to paying or not. I mean it's it's a tough tough thing to figure out right now. It is a tough thing to figure out in. Historically we've been deferring this risk to cyber insurance and you know we've all gotten drunk on cyber insurance right. I mean that market took off like crazy. You and i have talked actually pretty recently. About how cyber insurance is tightening up. And they're trying to pay in some cases treasury department stepping in and actually blocking some of those payments by sanctioning ransomware operators so unfortunately that risk is now coming back on us. And i think the real thing that we've got to think about as society is maybe we need to change the economics for the bad guys and just stop paying ransoms. It's going to be painful particularly the first time we do it. But if we stopped paying the ransom we stopped the venture capital. You can't hire the hundred. Twenty-five developers by the lambeau by the fun house or throw the party all sudden is not cool anymore. And why do yeah. Yeah and the be good deals to be had on slightly used lembo's right there will and how cool would that be would be. I mean i can see the used car operate. I can see the used car dealer in moscow after we ban ban ransomware payments going. Oh well you know these were all. These are great deal. These are all former ransomware. Operators can get you grant use. Lambeau i think it was allen liska from recorded future. Who made the point that if you want to try to track some of these folks down track the the the purchases of exotic cars that there's there's there's more than a dotted line between those two things so i i think you're onto something absolutely so look. Here's the here's the point. This is a little fun but the point is in all seriousness. What do you think your funding when you pay a ransom of that size and is there a better way and maybe the better way is just to change the answer for everybody and change the economics of the bad guys. All right food for thought. Caleb barlow thanks for joining us. Thanks to all of our sponsors for making the cyber wire possible. Could your company benefit by reaching our large and influential audience. Send us a note at the cyber wire dot com slash sponsor. And that's the cyber wire links to all today's stories. Check out our daily briefing at the cyber wire dot com. The cyber wire podcast is proudly produced in maryland out of the startup studios of data tribe. Where they're co building the next generation of cybersecurity teams and technologies. Don't forget to check out this. Weekend's episode of research saturday and my conversation with lee christensen and we'll schroeder from specter ops. We're discussing their research on abusing active directory certificate services. That's research saturday. Check it out are amazing. Cyber wire team is elliott peltzman trae hester peru precaut- dustin savy. Tim no dr. joe. Kerrigan enroll -tario ben. Yellen nick flaky. Jeanne johnson bennett. Mo- chris russell john patrick jennifer ivan. Rick howard heater kilby. And i'm dave bittner. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here next week now. A message from our sponsor arctic wolf when it comes to mitigating the impact of a security incident minutes matter so the question is how long would it take your organization to detect a ransomware attack. The answer could be the difference between business as usual and devastating consequences to your customers. Bottom line and reputation learn how the arctic will platform and concierge security team can help your organization detect the undetectable not in days or hours but minutes for the first time. Take an exclusive. Look at how. 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Top Five Hitchcock Movies and Psycho at 60

The Big Picture

2:19:37 hr | 1 year ago

Top Five Hitchcock Movies and Psycho at 60

"Sean Fizzy. and. This is the big picture a conversation show about Alfred Hitchcock. That's right. It's time to look at hitch. It is the sixtieth anniversary of his most well known film psycho to celebrate and choose some top fives. We've brought onto big picture all stars Chris Ryan and Wesley Morris I Chris Hi Wesley I Sean. I, everybody. I Amanda Hi, Chris. Leslie. Hi. Amanda Chris and Sean, so guys. Let's let's just jump right into a a hitchcock conversation Chris. I'm GonNa Start with you because I know you've got some big feelings some some big emotional thoughts about the film director Alfred has got when I say hitchcock, what do you think? The human mind I guess I know that's really general and generic but. I feel like he was really instrumental in mapping for me a early age when I first started seeing is movies. The nooks and crannies and the darkest corners of human mind both in terms of how your mind response to the way of fullness cut or a camera moves or the way something is framed or lit, but also just making these. Almost subconscious level when you're younger and then I think you read more in use or study this films more and more of an overt awareness these connections he's making between sex and death and mothers, and sons, and. Husbands and wives, and lovers, and everything in between that really like introduced me to a whole world of of of feelings and thoughts that I don I don't think I think is like a very formative formative artists in my life. Was What about you? What is what is hitchcock to you I like the Chris started with the brain with the mind. I was going to my first answer was going to be a little snarky as the human belly. That's what but but I mean I think I would have been joking but I actually might be serious in that. The man had an enormous cinematic appetite for all kinds of stuff right and he like his genius comes out of. It's funny because he has different phases which I guess we can talk about there. Are He like his interests change in the older? He gets the dirtier he gets in some ways. And I find him I find his interests and his appetites to be fascinating I think that you know obviously if you're making if you're if you're making a list of you know. The ten most important filmmakers ever He's definitely one of them and personally I just sort of like. How I love, I love a movie that has a sense of psychol- psychology. And? Even an inch cock like it doesn't always I mean like the human like do you like a human psychology nothing really makes sense but the thing that doesn't always make sense it can be explained I brought this down off my book. Shel-. One of the Great. I mean I don't know if you guys have a copy of this robin, woods his his like a revised version of his of his hitchcock obsession But I do like he's just endlessly fascinating. You can rate you can rate about him and still never get to the bottom of of what it is I mean Robin, Woods revisited him numerous times and is still always finding new things in Goch. I don't know I just really I like how you like we'll talk about the specific movies but. You know even something like to catch a thief. There's always something in it's not a it's not a deep movie, but it's got. A lot happening visually. And I guess the question another thing we can tell you about his like like which. How do you watch one of his movies? How do where do you? I guess that depends on who you are in where you are in your life on how much you? Know. How to watch her urges it in feeling but that's the thing I come back to over and over again when I watched one of his movies, which is like, how am I watching this so Amanda, who are you? and. Now you watch Alfred Hitchcock movies I mean, my answer is a reflection of me and my interest which is. I watch him a lot of different ways as as was said over time and. When I'm preparing for a like film podcast with my three best film buddies versus when I'm watching it, say with my mom on. which is how I encountered a lot of his movies for the first time but. This thing that. Makes Hitchcock. When I think of hitchhiker what he stands for for me, and what is most important to me is like entertainment as art as like real high art and that his films can contain the psychological dabs that Christmas talking about. Eight different phases of like film history and can yield. Psychological and visual and technical examinations and can withstand like decades at film school but are also. But because of that, they're fun to watch and there still is that entertainment pleasure principle and this idea that just because something is fine doesn't mean that it can also be like in. And have craft and have great performances that there is a real fine art. I would say to making something that people want to watch and I am always in pursuit of. The really fun saying done as well as possible and I think a lot of people don't take fine and entertainment and audiences frankly seriously enough and he certainly did. Yeah I think you could say he was obsessed with them in many ways especially in the later part of his career and some of the movies will be talking about for sure he is. You know he seems to get off on the idea of tantalizing the people watching his movies lick maybe literally get off. You know the way that he he organized to literally. Tell but I I I agree with everything that you guys are saying I I especially agree with what you're saying Amanda which I think that he is kind of the he's kind of the platonic ideal for what we're looking for on this show right? He's somebody who's a mass entertainer who can be explored and examined and use the word withstand. I think that's a really. Good way of thinking about it like we are sixty years on from psycho and I found a lot to think about and talk about watching it again it's probably the film of his legacy in the most and it does all of those things. It is the belly it is the mind it's definitely the the sexual organs you know it's it's an in some cases. It's hard. Though not frequently, the heart which is maybe maybe arguably his one flaw is that he very rarely taps into the heart every once in a while, but it seems to be more the brain and desire is what is really what's driving him but you know I was just trying to write down some words that I think are even that flash across my mind when. I think of him and obviously we're talking about Saxon kind of transgression and Glamour, and and beauty and even humor and the technical power that he has but I think the number one thing is is suspense right? He's the master of suspense. He's the person who keeps you to your seat Christie feel like he is. Do you feel hitchcock resonates right now with people? I think he. Even if they don't know it. So I think that he does in the sense that some of our. Best or most popular or both working filmmakers are you can directly trace them back to hitchcock whether you're talking about fincher. Christopher Nolan even. Pre Blockbuster Denise Villaneuva in some ways you know like with prisoners enemy. So. I think that he definitely is still shows up in the theaters even if people aren't watching psycho with their mom on 'em as much as we would love them to be. Amanda I love that. For the record psycho was not the one I was watching with my mom. That's it's not like the other ones are so wholesome. It's true but. One that I watched with my mom and actually Rebecca, my mother was telling me she reread the book and revisited the movie in quarantine which my mother is not the person who's just let me put on a hitchcock film for the fun of it but I think that. Speaks to his reach but also that I don't really think I understood all of the subtext of Rebecca, their first or fourth or eight time that I saw it, and then then you become an adult and you're just like, wow now I have some dissertations to right. They're all Kinda like this. Like. You know. I mean I don't know how many you guys saw before you were eighteen or twenty-one or whatever when you were still. When you weren't fully formed, but the impression they make you watch enough of them early enough it I don't know how to explain this but. Because they're so mysterious I am incapable of understanding what's happening even as an adult because I saw them. So early yeah, and they filled a part of my psyche that hadn't developed yet, and so even as a grown man now, I still can't see I mean and in some ways are not meant to be deciphered in that in that sort of logic oriented way or. Even narrative like the movies make if you diming screenwriting teacher. But if you diagram these movies with I, mean with with certain exceptions like strangers on a train they don't they don't either they're not interesting. You get like one line and they're not just not a lot of this way or it's like a kaleidoscope and you good luck trying to figure out that one. Picasso. In. So I just always I love movies where I either forget something happens even though I've seen it a lot. Or I don't I leave the movie no less enlightened in terms of my understanding of it. than I did when I got there, that's that's such. A good point I was I've just while you were talking remembered something that I hadn't remembered before we you know for this podcast which was. I know that I saw vertigo way before I understood what the Fuck Virgo Yeah Vertigo is. Yeah. Yeah and I but I remember Vertigo making me deeply uncomfortable. As as a boy, you know even though I didn't understand why and I think that's one of the things. That's so amazing about him. You eat for all of these different move things that these movies do the one thing that he made me super aware of was my role as audience was my role as a play thing for this person who is going to be manipulating my emotional and intellectual reaction to a piece of art even though I may not even understand why it was happening. I think the thing is. He is obsessed with his own interests and it turns out that his own interests have more in common with his audience than I think society would like us to believe you know and that's probably it. Probably a note I've cribbed from hearing filmmakers talk about him. You Know Kristie mentioned David ventured venture might be the most interesting person to talk about Hitchcock and he certainly has cribbing from him frequently. There are certain rules and he pulled the pin and rolled a grenade into the middle of that that conference room and destroyed all those rules. But I think that the truth is is that most people are interested in desire and they're interested in the slightly perverted and they're interested in. Being kind of. Emotionally drawn out you know what I feel like. A lot of these stories are about people who are recessed who are forced to be drawn out. You Know Rebecca is very much about that even north by northwest, which is more like a pop entertainment is about drawing somebody out and kind of revealing they are all kinds of mistaken identity and confusion, and I really respond to what you're saying. Wesley too because I think that even his best movies don't. classically make sense you know they're not necessarily coherent in any way, and yet he has this reputation as this big crowd-pleaser people kept coming back again and again to his movies despite the fact that you could sometimes get to the end of them and say. What does that mean and or or what even happened and we were talking about earlier this week with Adam, Neiman about tenant and in many ways, I think Nolan shares that with him where there are times where you get to the end of a no one movie and you're like I don't think this made sense but there are a lot of people for whom that's actually exciting and compelling. Do you feel like you're thinking of him wisely when you're when you're writing film criticism is is hitchcock. One of those people who flash on or do you have to be do you have to kind of like force yourself to return to his work? Now. Because it's so omnipresent in the lessons that you learn I mean depending on what you're. It also depends on how you were educated to rate like if you I think that if you taught and I don't know I, be curious to know what? Film Programs you know film theory programs are focused on now but when I was in school. A huge part of the way we were there was the to total izing forces in your film education. We're go DARD and hitchcock two very different directors who end wearily in my case Riefenstahl she came up with this like an interesting amount to and not necessarily morally either But just as a as a craftsperson, she came plot. She came up more than some other people as I should say but but hitchcock, I would say you know keys a lesson that you learn and I think one of the one of the ways you get taught how to watch movies by watching hitchcock because. You will never stop learning and there's so many things to think about and all of the things that we're hung up on today with respect identity in representation not necessarily racial. But if we want to talk about Whiteness I'm here for that during this conversation. But especially, I mean with with respect to women and and and and how the a woman's mind is very much part of. The plot of these movies and as far as I know you guys can correct me if I'm wrong only. I can only remember one woman writing the script for one of his films and that's Marnie. which has a great script door. Dorothy Parker did work on Salvator. See the only other. UNACCREDITED WRITERS BE I think I think there might have been one or two. She's the only credited. She's the only. She's a sole credit on Marnie and the only woman I can think of obviously these adapted novels by women. But I think there's just so many different ways to appreciate How his how he he's just in other people's movies, I was watching strangers on the train for this conversation A. Couple of days ago and I was like, Oh, I have not talked to Jordan peele about Alfred Hitchcock. But I wonder whether or not. You know some of that amusement park stuff in just a question of cruising and crossing in meeting on the train and having a having a kind of The idea of a tether is in part like a hitchcock I don't know I don't know if entirely comes from hitchcock but their ideas and Jordan peele that are that are. If they're not out of hitchcock there at least in alignment with hitchcock's sort of psychological priorities and Jordan peele somebody who the thing that's interesting about somebody like him is that he is he likes the form that hitchcock provides assume but also. Applying that form not to the human psyche necessarily but to American society that is so that's such a rich place to begin to think about. Where to take influence, but you can see it all over the place you know I mean like Almodovar's are to this day is still you know besotted with hitchcock. I don't know. I, mean yeah. I. Think I, think about him you're thinking about an even when you're not thinking about it and the problem of course is that people who try to do him? Kind of bad at it. Yeah. It's impossible to replicate right I you know one of the things I was thinking about. One he he obviously gets some credit for treating female characters with a level of sophistication that was uncommon. But also he has this pretty fraud reputation about the way that he treated mattresses over time and obviously he's also notorious for sort of. You know amplifying and sexualizing certain feminine ideal in his mind on the other hand. He does this really interesting thing with good and evil where so many of his villains are more sympathetic or more nuanced than most other movies especially from the forties and fifties where there is a kind especially when you're more charming. And so you get this like the idea of the hitchcock characterization is so complicated because. You know they're good things and bad things about everybody and there are there is no clarity and the way that we're trained to watch movies when we're kids, which is you know cowboy wears white hat and kills bad guy in black hat is kind of exploded by a lot of these hitchcock movies. What do you think about kind of his relationship in the way that he builds out characters? Well he mentioned his offscreen I guess treatment of many of the women that he worked with and. The to be. Relationship was quite complicated and I think you do have to. He knew it. So I always feel like I'm betraying everyone like you have to put it to the side a bit, but it is i. think it is a different thing than the the characters that he creates an films even though I think certainly, the way that he portrays especially women in his films is a informed by some of their obviously related they are related so I don't know what to do but. But to say I, guess, you have to hold all those things in your mind as once at once as we have to do for a lot of things. In terms of the characters and success especially the female characters I mean. So I'm not a blonde woman. Never Been Blonde woman. Just have never even dyed my hair like definitively not a blonde woman, and so it's very interesting. I. Think I watched these movies and particularly the grace Kelly movies because I think those are the ones I caught early on I like watching me I'm just watching a totally different type of creature and I found it pretty fascinating. You know what I was like. Okay. So this is I guess some women are like this and This and and what must that be like and it's definitely not what I do but that's kind of interesting and I think he has such a he actually repeats characters but has specific. Gift for specific characterization and types of people that in the same way that I was learning how to watch movies I was learning about this particular as was alluded like white blonde ideal from from these people or from these characters or to learn what like a charming villain is I think I was more adjust like studying and being like didn't know that minds works that way. Chris when you see to be Hedren onscreen or or Janet Lee your. Grace Kelly do you think I see myself in those women? I do think that there's a really interesting with him because he's a conversation. I have all the time especially as it relates to television but even with movies as well. It's like Oh. Yeah. The coen brothers, they just don't love their characters. You know this director this writer why would I spend time with these people that the director doesn't even seem to love them they don't like them and that never cursed me with hitchcock. Never think do I want to spend time with this person? Is this person? Likeable? Does the director love this person and that's just like very freeing I find it you know what I mean I find very free into separate character from person and to separate character from. Some sort of transactional relationship between about whether or not like I identify with an I like them the amandas point about the blonde hair is very interesting I mean. I suppose I see bits and pieces of myself especially in Ingrid Bergman but you know I think. I think the thing I think of it almost as like a study you know I don't. I don't think of it as as this sort of. Referendum on whether or not he thought this or he felt this and this view of humanity I don't imagine that his view of Mandy was particularly high but. That's such. A It's such a liberating thing. They watch his movies and not be concerned with that. Well I actually think that's interesting Chris because I think that his view of humanity is actually like he holds it in is steam because if you think about like one of my hitchcock Schroeck, two things. Who I'm going to go back to something that you in a manner talking about, which is the idea of this. This question of identification I think I think to the extent that it matters how he treated the people in movies I. Mean Most of actors are on the record as saying they had a miserable time working with him except for Farley granger who said it was one of the best things that's ever happened to him I can only I can't imagine why Mr Grainger. in your case but. I think that the idea that he doesn't make a distinction between his cinematographer, his editor prop master and his actors is important because it takes it. It allows for the people playing these parts to not literally be furniture, but but as close to literally being furniture as possible and so you are really experiencing the world of the film not the story of a person. and. The world's of his movies are a what you were there to experience, and it takes a lot of the representative pressure off I mean not that he was even thinking about how to depict the moral morality of how to depict a woman. But in conversely you you as viewer aren't. I. Think it short changes the development of a world by thinking about them in terms of gender although the movies themselves understand how gender works. I just think that there's such a richness. In with respect to men and women and how. Messed up dysfunctional both genders are separately and together, and then the other thing that I was just before I cut myself off maybe answer my own question I are like like made my already made. But you said something and I was going to start saying I stopped myself to make the other point. What was I saying I? Don't remember now did he like his characters or does he like humans 'cause and you? Yes, you Manda Yeah. Because I want to rebut it later go ahead. Well, I was just GonNa say that like. Well I don't know. What here's what I would say I would say that he ultimately aides part of the the world that he is building. There is right and wrong and there is morality and my one misgiving about hitchcock is they key? Truly embraces the dark side of of the world's he creates he creates dark worlds, but there's always a moral framework within them to tell an audience what's right or wrong I mean all those terrible endings were somebody comes and explains what was going on or like or in the middle has to explain something or the ways in which you know like in the original the man who knew too much from thirty four where the daughter is missing but nobody seems nobody really seem stressed out about it like it. You know we can talk about macguffin later on but. Like in terms of needing like what you need to believe or need to know feel or experienced in order to like believe the world is building Is is is sometimes it doesn't always work out but like make sense. But ultimately, what we're dealing with is a is a is a is a sort of very understandable moral universe of of right and wrong and it's it's almost that's the only simple part. Of, what he does, which is that there are good pete there there is good and there is bad and the the genius his genius is to conflate them within the furniture of his people but ultimately, he's on the side of of some kind of Morality, it's not complete but I mean, if he weren't that he'd be David, Lynch, I would say if you weren't that he'd be Brian Depalma where like you know the lessons that those two people learn from from hitchcock is to is to remove the moral the moral framework and just let the crazy be craze. demanded. Want to rebut any at any point. I mean. Wesley but I think at the first time around you were talking about how we've used humanity and that was what Christmas talking about and I you're I think you're one hundred percent right about the good and evil and rally in the movies, and then I think he hates basically every human and most of all and most of all himself, there is just tremendous amount of self loathing. In every single wine of these movies whether it's about the characters that he's created or anytime there's like an allegory for like filmmaking just like well, I'm that creepiest person whoever was and cure all the things I want and can't have, and so I'm going to put them in cut your hair this way. Yeah and I know it's bad because I understand what right and wrong is but also like I'm a control freak myself and so I just have to make a whole movie about like this eternal struggle to not be able to be what I think I should be a man was very high standards which, I really relate to. Yeah there's so. There's so much to unpack right everything that you guys of said. The one thing that we should say is his key collaborator to Wesley's point about a female screenwriter is not cary. Grant is not Jimmy Stewart not grace. Kelly. It's Alma reveal who is his wife and she's the person who though she's not the sole credited screenwriter on his films is clearly his number one sounding board and the person especially through the first you know thirty or so years of his career, he looks to to provide some guidance and maybe that's where you get some of that psychological complexity in his female characters that many of his contemporaries didn't have. But to answer your your point about the actors in the kind of the way that he saw actors as chess pieces just like you saw the best boy in the gaffer in this Matata I wonder if some of that comes from the fact that. Hitchcock is basically as old as mainstream movie going you know he starts making movies in the mid twenties. And he makes movies through the seventies and there's really no filmmaker. Who worked through that entire period of time and held relevance through that period of time so in many cases, we talk about you know the morality that comes into movie logic as we understand it or macguffin you mentioned Wesley or the idea of the the conflicted hero or the charming villain like did he invent these things? Was He the signature creator of some of these key aspects that we think about when we think of movies because there's so much text and subtext to look at him with that? It's almost it's almost kind of stupid for us to be doing an episode about his work because you could do you could do a five year long podcast project. Work like I say. Sure they have I'm sure they have and we'll just scratch the surface here. I mean, you do a five year project on the life span of Vertigo, you know the way that that movie the way it was received in the way that it was made in the way that it has changed over time and whether it actually is or is not his crowning achievement. So many people have said. In the last twenty five or thirty years, and you'll never get to the bottom of everything. Right we'll never say this is the definitive point of view on hitchcock but the thing is is his influence is so overwhelming to me not just in terms of the filmmakers that were citing here or even the kinds of movies that we get into the Jordan peele point is a great point But more specifically, just like the the flow of movie The way movie roles out just feel. So informed by the pacing, he landed on the way he chose music his music is so so impactful and important to the way that movie music sounds right now it is the number to credit. It's like it's every movie and the last person credited before hitchcock is the. I think it's not unreasonable to say that he's the most influential person who made movies which is pretty daunting and. You mentioned good. The other influential people without him. Exactly, and obviously, hitchcock, Truffaut's this very famous text where truffaut interviews him and talk to him about technique and him and go. So influenced by all the things that hitchcock did and even just the the critical theory has evolved so much basically in tandem with hitchcock like the way that somebody is thought of this is a guy who never won a best. Director Oscar in his career because he was considered an entertainer, he wasn't considered a great artist and that changes over time and I don't know it's a it's a fascinating thing. I think on the one hand he's probably been examined too much and on the other hand I. Think he's probably worthy of like another fifty years of analysis I mean speaking of House. I feel like in addition to all the things that makes him great all the things in addition to all the things that make great I think that. His interest in. What we would now call pop psychology but really was like like a full throated belief in in the in the personification of Fortean. thinking Rate and. What it, what was happening to you know psychology and you know the mental health industries in the fifties and sixties with respect to. Getting analysis and understanding themselves in tandem with you know really thinking through a Freudian model of of of psycho second psychology and psychoanalysis. those nobody was I mean there were other people who were who were attempting to represent that. But not as explicitly you know you Could Watch Foss Bender for instance and you can apply for defender but hitchcock was the person who was like he was explicitly yeah, right he was he was Ki- openly forty in in his in his in his understanding of his character psychologists which sometimes deserves him because you know he there's something about Roy is bottomless also. In, it can be dissatisfying as a movie going experience in some ways if you were looking for closure or tidiness or clarity or understanding about behavior because again, I never really like you're watching, we can talk about this but lake. I would say he's only got like. Two or three great characters. So really what we're talking about is the construction of in these worlds like their correspondence with Freud enforced priorities he kind of lives in dies by. By how much how much forty understands and how much freud he can make cinema out of When you say he only has two or three characters you mean like two or three character archetypes that he returned sue over and over again no I mean two or three great characters laying two or three like characters who are interesting in human and. The test would be, how many of these people can you remember their character name versus that's Jimmy Stewart rate rate rate or and that was a weird challenge to go back through and I'm like you know like when Jimmy Stewart says this. Week. But is it rupert is Rudolph I can't remember his name and it's like that's like a really interesting test where he? You know. So much of what he did in movies happened way before he even lit light onset. For it was so mapped out that really the making part of it was kind of. Putting together furniture was he's just following instructions that he had himself written and I think that sometimes that dampens the the maybe the signatory moments that we associate with quote. Unquote great characters. I think also in terms of characters. One thing he does a lot he does use like movie stars whose characters like we're already familiar with and like plays against me he's like. Well you and I are just obsessed with movie stars but like this is this is the he uses cary grant and you get like the most cary grant performance of all time, and you also get in notorious like a cary grant who's like barely cary grant at all he's playing against these ideas that we have. A have associated with Jimmy Stewart and grace. Well Grace Kelly he kind of events but you know. It's and it's a different way of plumbing psychology. I guess and how how the audience relates to someone and how the audience. Relates to psychology, but it is true that it's it's the movie stars and not like the photographer that Jimmy Stewart is and rear whose name Chris I cannot remember. It's written on his cast don't remember it. It is my God is he just went out of my brain to. You you want to know the rear window characters name. Like L B Jeffries or something Oh. Yeah. That's it. But I. Don't know what the be stand for anyway. It's Jeff Right he's. Jeff they call. Them Jeff Yeah. It's a very interesting point and I wonder if that's why because he's made over fifty feature films I wonder if that's why his best known and best loved movies are the movies that have the biggest movie stars I mean. Those are really his signature films are Ingrid Bergman. CARY grant. Jimmy Stewart Grace. Kelly. Perhaps. Janet and Anthony Perkins to a lesser extent, and maybe this is an odd lesser rate I mean like the star of Hitchcock is hitch. Star Seiko is hitchcock. Yes, that's what everybody wanted to go in the marketing, right the marketing and the hit hitchcock, the stars of Psycho, and that's one of the things I wonder. I don't actually know this. Maybe you know this wasn't just from doing some study but at what point did an Alfred Hitchcock picture become the strongest selling point for a new movie was happening in the forty s you know by the time of spellbound could you sell a movie on Hitchcock's name? Now I mean I you could. But it had to be part of a package like I mean they still what we are like laying on now is what I mean. Even in the what we would describe as tourism think you know fifty years ago? He was still. Well obviously, well regarded, but it wasn't like. Ito was in the same pile and trying to distinguish himself as as. A bunch of other directors and he had a of view That studio had recognized but the star, I, mean the people calling the shots were still cells Nick and you know You know in the mill and all of those guys I mean cells nick is the person who you know was in I think was at sells macos annoyed with. strangers on a train I can't remember now heading home. Made. Of Movies in the forty s together. And you know. There was some tension between who is in charge of a of of the production was it sells nigger was hitchcock. which is. That was just not happening I. mean it was him versus a studio in the sixties if their work to do these, did there was a verses but you know somebody like if we're talking about like singular size talent to couldn't be tamed into were therefore sunk. We're talking about, Orson Welles like we're not I mean hitchcock is a person who understood that he had to play by some of the rules which is kind of why. The movies Kinda work the way they do where they're torn between how crazy they wanna go and how how much how aware he is an audience is going to have to pay to see the film which goes back to a man does and Virgil Point Railroad. He threaded the fucking needle better than any filmmaker ever probably, right? Right right Oh can I. Say one other thing about identification and what did you guys were joking about Chris like understanding Grace Kelly and not like you know relating to Grace Kelly Berman but I would say that Ingrid Bergman. Will mostly for me grace? Kelly it isn't so much that lake her being this archetype. Of. PATRICIAN blond. Wasp genus is is the is the hook it's more the ways her character or characters function in those films like in we're window. One of the most exciting experiences I think anybody as a moviegoer is ever going to have is the moment wherein he in the genus is he finds a way to turn this moment into cinema but the moment where Grace Kelly goes from skeptic to getting in the sidecar of the plot and it's such a great moment and it's like you thought you were watching Jimmy Stewart's movie you thought this was about Jeffrey Jeff Jefferies. But no, it is actually about her and it's about the moment she goes from being disbelieving to the moment she believes. And You'd doesn't matter who that person is although like the insidious nature of all the things we know about the movies and raised. A like it could probably in nineteen fifty four could only have been. You know this this. Blonde. Princess. But nonetheless I'm not watching that all I'm watching as a person realize that the thing that she didn't think was going on twenty minutes ago is really is possibly probably happening. is one of the great things about hitchcock in terms of who you're asked to identify with and every. This casts a right. My blog post about how rear window is actually about Grace Kelly getting red pickled. Let's use this as an opportunity to talk about psycho, which is the reason that we're having this chat sixtieth anniversary and only one of us has it in his or her top five. So I'M GONNA. I'M GONNA. I'M GONNA out you as Leah's having this movie on your list I came very close to making it my number five, and then at the last minute my wife kind of believe me out of moving it out so that we would have more movies to talk about because we're gonNA talk about psycho here regardless but you have it in you have it number four wisely obviously one of the most influential films every ever made and I find it fascinating that Amanda Chris I did not put it on our lists even though it's the one that I've seen the most and. Perhaps thought about the most and is very Kind of academically and pop entertainment history. Kind of beaten into your head of what it means and why it was impressive and powerful Chris. Do you do you like the movie psycho? I, think I revere more than I like it. which is the case for a couple of these movies. A couple of the great hitchcock movies is that I'm just like I? Really really every eight years I should fire this up and just kind of. Get you know get the cobwebs often remember like how good this can be but I'm not necessarily like a dialing up psycho on a Sunday the way I would some of his other movies Amanda, what about you do you? Do you respond respond to this movie at all? Yeah, of course, because I think it's so interesting to watch kind of their example of a genre when you are not really a consumer of said John or just to say I don't as everyone I don't watch a ton of horror movies. It's not how I like have fun on a Saturday night but this is obviously like the the horror film and. and. I know that because I know about the shower scene And I'd like no things about the pacing that I have just picked up from being a citizen of the pop culture universe for however long I've been alive and those moments are still like extremely exciting. I watched it last night because I do my homework like Shawn, asks and. It's You Know I. do think even if you don't have however I guess what sixty years? Yeah. Sixty years of significance attached to those moments there still just like very viscerally exciting and memorable. Mike machine is just kind of. I. Don't you get bored of horror movies after a while like what's the killing starts? I just Kinda like, okay I know what's going on so that was that's my response in here in some ways like the pacing and like the forward thrust of it. Kind of. Doesn't Hook me in the same way but yeah, I'm pro psycho what you think I'm GonNa come on this podcast be like, Hey, psycho no, no I I. Sure Space created. This is such a funny example though to ask that question about don't you ever get sick of the killing because aside from the fact that from a technical standpoint, it's obviously an extraordinary kind of leap forward for making right in the procure the particular nature in which he maps everything out has been examined over and over again. But more specifically because this movie is just not like a lot of other movies and that was the point of it it it did two things. One obviously breaks the narrative expectations over its knee in killing the main character forty minutes into the movie spoiler alert for those of you haven't seen psycho if you're listening to this Evanston. Wrong with psycho I thought you were talking of. In addition to that, you know this is not really like a movie about sick kills even though it's probably best understood. For its big kill scene, you know it's something different than that seems to be about manipulating audience and keeping a secret you know, and it's the characters are keeping secrets and hitchcock wants the audience to keep a seeker. So it isn't spoiled for people. You know it really is kind of at the forefront of don't tell anyone about what happens in this movie which is a little bit kind of outside of the text, but it just doesn't. It doesn't feel I don't feel a lot of. Horror history kind of played out through psycho even though it's one of considered one of the signature films I don't know what was what is it that you that you love about it and what you know why did it make your list? While I. Don't think if it as a horror movie for one thing I mean I don't think of it. I think of it as the genius of the movie is that it is my favorite kind of movie my favorite absolute favorite my if it has a Genera, it's the side as side b right it's the it's the thing that gets flipped over right you you gotta like Midway through the last track ends. You've got to flip it over and it's completely different listening experience, right? It's like. I like that I think I'm watching one thing. I. Mean we can go through the movies that have the side as beefing because it's kind of their their enough of them to have a conversation about their rare and when somebody can achieve that. Through the filmmaking or the screenwriting it's just exceptional but the thing about the movie is I'm stealing this from. Our friend Robin Wood. Is the movies I mean, it's not too. It's not one of the deeper points he makes about the films but in psycho he observes the movie is essentially about the president in the past and the ways in which present actions as time goes on obviously creates a past and so a thing we see Mary and doing the president by the midway point becomes the things she did in the past and asked to turn back around and fix. And what I love about that idea is in order to make that interesting, he has to then change not the yes. To change the genre of the movie because at this point in nineteen sixty, the condom movie psycho is for like its first hour is not movie that anybody else making nineteen sixty. He's making a forties film noir in nineteen sixty, and that's the first hour the movie. and. It is a thing of the past. It feels like the past there's something about Janet lease. You're watching A. With all due respect to the movie. I'm just trying to give it like I'm trying bring it to reduce it to its boast essential sort of formal internal elements. You're watching an episode of Perry. Mason, if Perry Mason were about the person committing the crime before Perry Mason shows up. and. Imagine thinking that you're watching some episode of TV and then all of a sudden. This woman is you're seeing being peeped at. Through through a wall, then you see your take a shower and enjoy the sort of the symbolic act of washing her sins away and you think, oh, great. We're now going to watch a redemption story about this woman who has cleansing herself of her crimes and her leg immorality only to be slashed and die, and they're still another hour left of the movie I just feel like it's just a holy shit even even watching it now it's like. I just laugh I just. You GotTa stop bringing up Robin would because I when I go on a podcast I don't expect to get dunked on by like film theory. Textbook. and. Now I'm like boy, am I a moron. Thing I've ever heard. I mean, you're not a moron. I the thing that I love about psycho also is again, it is not a movie that makes sense at the human level like I think the thing that's great about hitchcock and psycho is a really great example of this although I'm sure that like all your guys favorite movies have some aspect of too. I love the period from from like vertigo to money although I would include to include torn curtain this to which comes after Marty Sixty six as being about manifestations and not about people there about psychological in neurotic manifestations, and that is the sort of driving engine of of the atmosphere of the film it's about. Emotions and feelings and neuroses, and not about people necessarily and psycho to me is it's not the best example of that and hitchcock but the way that it sprung on you where you're watching an anti psychological movie for an hour become a complete psychological movie in the second hour in some ways, I would also say that the Arbogast death. Is Way more like. Shocking to me than Marion Crane's in some way especially when you see the movie, a bunch of times because that to me is. We talk about suspension with hitchcock but I actually wonder if the more useful way to think about him as dread because. Even when you know what's going to happen, it's not so much. I always happens actually I was every time. He's so good at setting the table for dread like these images like you know when when when you see through the shower curtain, you're watching Marion have this exhilarating shower and she's still like you know loving bathing herself and then you see. Looming shadow through the through the translucent shower curtain. It's just. I mean I don't know I wasn't there in nineteen sixty but I've read about it was people were screaming screaming screaming. At is just like sitting alone in your house, you're just like Oh. My God I've seen this ten times, fifteen times and. I'm still there's something in the pit of my stomach that just. Is is revolt and that's just that is the best feeling in movie going I would say and I think the the thing is he always pays off the dread you know his those kills the Arbogast kill is so shocking and so beautiful. So disorienting in the same way that the Marion kill is so is so picked over I. mean there's an entire documentary called seventy two completely devoted to the shower sequence and how he did it and what it means and what the theory says about it and how fans and and filthier have looked at it in the past and. It's amazing that it's still so worthy of examination in that way and yet, I still just does kind of feel like scraping the surface, which is really weird because like so many of his other films, the source text is this like perfectly fine page Turner novel that is loosely based on the Ed Geene murders and you guys read it read it. I think I've thumbed through it in a library in the past. It's a Robert Block novel. Was a bestseller in its time, but is not considered high art in the same way that psycho is but. I was thinking about this movie in the way that it's been examined and reconceptualized over and over again and also parodied you know the the Bernard Hermann score and that looming shadow who that you're describing behind the shower curtain and just the the the dread and kind of making fun of almost like the Leslie Nielsen Aspect of this movie to I I used to think it. It had like reduced its power, but now I feel like it's The opposite. There's just this like all this whole world of psycho admiration and commentary that it that much bigger and deeper like it does. It really does feel like it's on a par with Star Wars and E T and a handful of other movies that are just like these. Are there if there are ten films, ten films made in America that demand your attention like it probably makes that list right I don't know it. What do you think? Yeah absolutely and as I was saying to some extent, I think that's how I, consumed it. Re watching it again last night. I knew obviously when I was watching it last night what happened but I don't think I ever saw this movie without knowing what happened and I mean that is just like an impossibility of my age and where you know when I saw it and how I even knew about it, you come with the knowledge of the shower scene and you know who Norman Bates is and you know like I've I've seen like the parodies or that's and Al skits or like the references. and. That it enriches it in one way but does also take away not the power of the shower scene because like that that shadow that you can see through the curtain is still freaky. Every single time because that is just an example of like actual like craft and that's how you put an image together but I yearn for a somehow some. Sort of time travel machine, where I could go and just actually have the experience at. Wesleyan was talking about where get flipped, get slipped on you and you don't know what's coming and you don't know what the second half and you can experience like that actual that psychological shift yourself because it is it's messing with the psychology of the audience as well. But you have had that I would say, 'cause you've seen pulp fiction. I, mean, there's the only comparable time I can think of where something like that has happened. And where you're just like, oh, my God what. You're watching your weight, but there's there's stuff. I saw the trailer that hasn't happened yet. Is this what the film? And I. To. Me comes out of psycho. That's the that's maybe fictions. Another one of those movies in those ten movies that then I'm referring to you know Casablanca and and the wizard of Oz and star wars in psycho and pulp maybe pulp fiction I don't know The thing that I'm so fascinated by with it to is just the the casting choices that he makes an who he decides to put into these parts that he seems to have some consciousness that there's going to be something iconic in this movies bearing right you. If you read about the way that the movie was marketed and the way that it was presented to two audiences, you could see that he knew he had something and secrecy was of a major order and. You know I don't. I don't know a whole lot about gently I haven't read any Janet Lee. Biographies for example, Anthony Perkins is a really interesting figure in the history of movies for for a lot of reasons I guess maybe fear strikes out is probably his biggest role before this, Wesley? Yeah Yup Yup that's right and they both bring something very specific and very charged to those roles in Jelly Lee. You have this just classic sex pot radio and she's a character who is kind of morally ambiguous who does good things and bad things and who commits this crime, and even as we're watching her, it's very rare that you see the main character of your movie. Do something that is just so openly wrong and that that's kind of what leads to that punishment and I i. there's a convenient. Right. What's what's the wrong thing because there's technically depending on? Who you are when you're watching this movie like there's two wrong things, there is the there's the sex that opens the movie and you know the cameras are sort of drifts through a window. Suddenly you're you're creeping on them And the the the the theft is a totally spontaneous act to take the moral stigma out of. The sacs that she's been having to lake to. Provide a way for them to be like on the up and up as a as a as a couple Amanda you Marion Crane should have been punished for actions. No, but. Accept it except that in the in the world of hitchcock she has to be as everyone does and you know and I and I don't even think that she has to be as a as a woman necessarily I think there are. There other examples where? Where we could talk a bit more about his relationship to the to the woman in that film and what she has to go through in order to redeem herself but. In this one, it's It's just. How he sees. Humanity that everybody is kind of doing stuff for themselves and doing what they WanNa do, and then ultimately your Europe wishes and impulses in the things that you most want in life are are going to be what ruin you. SAPPY does on point. SAS is the thing that's going to lead to your downfall like wanting it trying to like I mean having it at all I mean this is greatest contribution to the horror genre is not the shower sequence it is. The is the is the sort of. Punishment for having desire. And you don't get a slasher movie with our. You, know what's being I mean she doesn't really die for the sex she dies essentially if you WanNa. Have a rationale for why Marion Crane dies. It's at the suggestion that Norman put her away essentially. I mean at least that's how I felt this time that I watched it. But the but the impetus for her stealing the money is is sex, and so the ultimate sort of in the scheme of the moral framework of the home like she has to be punished for having had this slake. Alike illicit sacks like he wasn't. It wasn't like some of the other sex. It happens in hitchcock where like somebody's married But he used to be married at he's paying alimony by the way John Gavin. Chilean Mexican by the way, this is what Hollywood does super sexy John Gavin, a Chilean and a Mexican ply his whole life. is now you know died a huge Republican supporter donor ambassador to Mexico under. Reagan I believe Buddy. Ronald. Reagan anyway who John Gavin. But I know I think that sex is the place at least for me in that run from maybe to catch a thief to our stop at Marnie like. But you know it happens throughout like you know if you're watching strangers on the train. I mean do you guys think that movies about like Farley granger just wanting to get it on with with the? I mean I mean, this is not a new idea. I say this first person to say this but to see it. Oh Yeah. So blatantly as a grown person, you know it's a it's like a key homoerotic subtext movie right? That's like that's the whole movie. Is that many ways about textual? The ME? That's Same with yes there. Are Bad. Well, it's also not sexual at all. It's just right there. It's right there. My guy is jerking off a champagne bottle like. That's the thing too is in in many ways he makes the quiet part loud and sometimes that's his best talent. Right? He says, the themes are obvious. Let me make them even more obvious to you. But on the other hand I, think psycho might be the most revered and analyze movie with the worst ending and really has that key that key version of an ending that you're talking about wisely were a psychiatrist comes into a room and just explains characters psychology and motivations for five minutes. Yeah. Like that's just Such A. It's such a strange choice and I while I do like the final sequence of Norman in his own and hearing his mother's voice and you know he wouldn't hurt a fly I do love the the closing moments of the movie I. Still Think they're really effective the psychiatrists sequences like downright bad like it's downright over the top. Can I ask a question about that sequence because I I agree with you and I was really watching it last night and reflecting on the ways in which it's just like. A classic like Air Cool. Promo. Now I will explain the mystery to the assembled guests except now I'm explaining. How You know I'm explaining human psychology to everybody. You know to your point was like it is leaning on Friday and analysis and and kind of making a lot of that public for a Lotta people it. was there a common understanding of what it like a psychopath was in nineteen sixty that people would who had seen this movie would have been like Oh. Okay. So that's what's going on here or is it just because they have to supply psychology to the American public and nine hundred, sixty I don't think anybody ever seen anybody die like that before okay and I think the story and correct me from Wrong Sean. But like I think that that was one of those endings that that wasn't the original ending rate. Now it's it's not and it's one of those things where I think hitchcock because he's constantly battling with producers and studios throughout his career. Sometimes had to a seat to some of their demands and sometimes changed things to satisfy financiers and even sometimes satisfy audiences. You can tell it sometimes he has a little bit of. Contempt or frustration at needing to clarify what he means by things, and that's why it's so interesting. You know the cycle ending to me always strikes me as a kind of fuck you to audiences after the failure of Vertigo. Vertigo is not a hit and is by far his most psychological film and his film that is a you know. So clearly about obsession and what sex does to people, you know what attraction and desire and loss does to people. and. It was not well received. Critically, the reviews were mixed and it didn't really do very well at the box office and psycho seems to see feels like him kind of rubbing our nose in it a little bit. You know saying you want murder, I'll show you murder you want explanation I'll give you explanation and that's part of what makes a great right it's this it's an orgy you know it's it's a total, it's a conflagration. It's all the things that he does well, all mixed up together just not in the order that we expect him to come in and so I think it's. I I still think it's profound and now I have regrets after thinking about it and talking guys about about not putting into my top five. I feel like I've fucked up. Well. To put in the top five. Yeah. It's not like you wound up putting. Know around the world in eighty days in the top five. You know you did okay with us. I didn't put that on because he didn't direct that movie and that would have been really weird choice. Would have been great content. Let's. Let's just take a quick break before we start sharing our top five because we've got some list to go through. I'm going to start with you. Why don't you tell us your number five and? Number five is morning. Again I'm a big fan of of manifestation psychological neurotic manifestation era hitchcock. I really like. This is a movie that works for me almost entirely on a formal level I like how how made it looks like it is like, have you guys seen this? Yeah. I rewind is named as adults 'cause. I. Saw it as a kid and didn't know what was going on. Because there's not even any visual aids like it's just like the screen would turn red sometimes low. What's Marnie deal? And I know that opening shot of the of the yellow bag I mean by the way I think a lot of a motive ours any like tricks did he stole and then improved? I, think he took from already i. what I like about this film is it is a real attempt to. Try to understand how to represent psychological. Trauma. Without ever having to spell out with the trauma is also to put to take all of Hitchcock's preoccupations with within criminality and in sexuality. And to. figure out a way to dramatize those things. In the realm of a roommates. Is but you know it's kind of creepy romance ray like she's there for how many days two days before sean connery by the way for no money for a Marnie is basically the story of a woman play by Tippi, Hedren, who is a KLEPTOMANIAC? And A. Like sees it as sexual KLEPTOMANIAC essentially, who takes a job a clerical job working for Sean Connery, on the basically on the Rhine from having stolen some money before. So it's Marion Crane from psycho meets Tippi Hedren from the Birds Meets Grace Kelly, in some some like some version of grace, Kelly that never really existed in which she was she was cold in unaccessible and the movie is about how frigid and sexually accessible to be hedren is to sean connery who just wants to warm her up and get her to talk and she just won't do it but she's so aware of what he's trying to do. did she takes her resist even more but the problem with the movie is the is again the ending where like it has to explain exactly what route which wrong with Marnie and But even that to me is really interesting the idea that like. This is not about a particular woman's trauma. It's about. It's it's a possible explanation for sexual dysfunction not like this thing happened to me individual human being it's like, why would somebody have some sexual dysfunction? Maybe the time that their mom did this you know was a I won't ruin it for anybody who hasn't seen it but it's It's it's more. It's more compelling to me than it isn't and just like. I just like how good it looks and how committed Tippi Hedren a great shot of her reaching putting her hand in Sean connery safe not a metaphor. And and just the way that she looks at her trembling gloved hand is just she does not get a lot of credit as being a good actress but she is so good in this movie just in terms of like hitting her marks and in conveying the psychological struggle of of wanting this thing that you also are trying desperately to repress. It's I. I don't know I just really it's not a great character, but that is a very good performance by to be it's committed. It's fully committed to really a stroke of Genius Casting Movie 'cause you've got to be Hetero immediately after the birds she obviously goes on to create its incredible legacy of. BEAUTIFUL BLONDE ACTRESSES INCLUDING Johnson. Who have seemed to be I think in their careers addressing the repression the characters? Yes. Go through this almost almost living that is so true. Yes. Yes. And also, it's Sean Connery in nineteen, sixty four and what are the three movies the Sean Connery makes directly before this doctor no from Russia with love and Goldfinger and the first thing chooses to do post James Bond is. Incredible? Strange. Weird. Hitchcock movie says a lot is just great timing for everybody involved good pick Amanda. What's your? Sorry. was just so sexy. That's it. Connery shocker. But yes young Sean Connor. You just can't believe it. You just can't believe it. I agree with everything that was they just said. About Sean Connery. And it also morning. My number five is in a different direction though also not at all to catch a thief. because. If you saw that I was not going to pick the Carey Grant Grace Kelly Rom Com caper set on the French Riviera. Met At all. It is real pleasure principle to me in just it looks beautiful like the. Reference. And the costumes and the location in addition to being like a area of personal enthusiasm to me just like are are filled with such care they are characters in the movie but You know you WanNa talk about sexuality and criminality. It is also there in to catch a thief but in just a a low stakes way that I think you could either interpreters like fun and a Caper or possibly like super nihilistic that like sex and relationships are all lies and we're all just kind of saying what we want to each other and trying to get what we want out of the situation, and then hopefully at the end we end up with someone who looks like cary grant or Grace Kelly and aren't the other girl who gets arrested. The poor other girls in Hitchcock's movies to talk about. The girls who aren't as what we should call them. The girls who aren't. Yeah that's true midges. I know. Minor Hitchcock but I think it's definitely one of the ones that I've seen more often and also in addition to touching on a lot of the major hitchcock themes. Really funny. It has like a Maurice screwball. That this this scene with the fireworks, which is the seduction scene doesn't actually have any sex at one point. CARY is just like yelling at Grace Kelly being like you know women who need weird excitement, which is like the funniest lot like. It's like he yells at her and I have thought about that all week long of just like women who need where it excitement of them. So know sex humor. Beautiful things and. People who are emotionally repressed and I just trying to get what they want a great hitchcock movie. An interesting one it's got some of the hallmarks right? Like shop I Robert Burks it's Got Grace Kelly. It's got some of the kind of key. It's got all this in this technicolor experience, but it also is. I think if you go in expecting a hitchcock movie, you might walk out a little dissatisfied right like you almost need to experience it without too much weight because it doesn't do what most of his films do in terms of that dread and that kind of like fearful ambiance that comes in from a lot of his movies but it really moves. He's so good at pacing in every movie and this one is just like it is it is a it is a like one piece garment that just really. Really can handle the wind is. A flag does that. Wow you just you invented flags just now leslie that's that was amazing. Chris, what's your number five? Is it a flat out? It's spellbound. It isn't that you were you five. Ben Heck scripts among other people and I think this is my vertigo. Like I. I don't know I've always really really really respected Vertigo I don't know if I've ever loved it and maybe there's something about the inversion of of the rules here where I feel like anger Bergman is trying to shape. Gregory Peck into what she wants she she so wants him to be who he is not. You know throughout most of this movie and that desire that you might have to shape someone who I think is very powerful one. It's an incredible setting hitchcock great choice to go to an asylum like seems like a perfect place for you. And I was watching last night and say. Larry David voice the Salvador Dali Secrets, not, good. Not. Good. Is that what you should we remarkable the fact it to of the Great Artists of the twentieth century or just like let's let's let's team up. It's just drop this dream sequence on people. It's incredible. Watch the throne but in movies. Yes. Bergman's great. Very broke in Frail Gregory Peck which is very good Gregory Peck, and just because always seem broken in frail to me I know I know but like when I think of the iconic version of him I think of him as being this very stoic wholesome person. But like his best performances are when he's all fucked up like this. Yeah. So. I adore spellbound number five. You know we never brought this up when we were talking about shutter island recently Chris but that's I know. There's so much spellbound in shutter island. Right Yep. Absolutely. So that's a great pick. None of us have any of those three films that you guys just named on our the rest of our lists. So those are individual. And brilliant films. All three of them. My number five is going to complicate her in the episode. So I'm GONNA withhold it and we'll talk about it when it shows up later on Wesley's list done done done. So. Let's go to West number four, which we already discussed which was psycho. At anybody needs to add about psycho, will you in particular? No I just think that you know every time I think that one of the thing I'm curious if I if I offer this as a reason that it wasn't on anybody else's list is that you've so thoroughly absorbed that maybe there's nothing to get out of it for right now and when you go back ten years. You would reconsider it in some way I. Don't know I mean I hadn't watched it until like the last couple of weeks The last time I watched it. Before. That was was years ago. It was maybe like ten years ago It was the last time I watched it was when the Gus Van Sant Movie. Remake. came out at the way. You guys. I will say that Gus van. Sant. Movie Got Shit on by everybody when it came out. And I think everybody missed the point. which was not. Everybody missed the point he wasn't trying to. It was like for Gus Van Sant did like to try to remake in a slum movie that he would never make himself. To see how a great movie is made in a style is not is nothing like his it's just one of the most interesting things a filmmaker has ever done and I find the way that he fell. He said a rule I. I don't know if this is a real role that he set, but it's clear that it's happening. He takes he does everything in his shot for shot remake, but he can do whatever he wants to do in the frame of the shots and I just do you guys. DO UNEQUIVOCALLY NO I. But I I like what you said and I like the idea of it and when I sit down to watch it. All I can think to myself is why none of those thoughtful reasons that you're suggesting feel apparent to me when I'm watching the movie which is It is just a true. Why would I watch this experience and also it does feel very miscast honestly, and that's that's par. Vince Vaughn is. Okay. Yeah. I was really good in Jillian Moore's really good William. H macy an Hayes I. Mean I don't know I really. It really worked for me sorry moving on A. Great Take I mean it's just great podcast material if nothing else. So. Amanda and I share a number four and we're going to hold that too because it a shop on someone else's list later in the conversation. So Chris what is your number four foreign correspondent? Oo. I love spy movies that I love newspaper Bubis, and this is both of those things. Joel mccrea plays an American journalist named Johnny Jones who goes by the name I think a Harley have her stock or what's what's the pen name he uses I can't remember it some hunter Lee or Stockley have her stock yeah, and so he goes to England to get the scoop on this Second World War that's coming. And he's inland and gets enmeshed in this. Huge. Conspiracy espionage story that involves you know body doubles and assassinations and has an iconic scene at a windmill and is just peak fucking sequences hitchcock bullshit where you're just like what the fuck this guy like die. But now he has like another person showed up at this convention what's going on and a lot of it is driven by Joe McRae's editor being like well, you got to go to Holland to get an interview with this guy which like did you have the budget for that? That's great. Back then and Ultimately I. Don't want to turn this into like shots are great. But there are some grew crazy shots in foreign correspondent by favorite is just the umbrellas moving after the assassination. Invent seven or eight directors careers. Lean, YEA I. His shot making I mean yeah okay. Yeah. I. Agree. I've not seen the movie in a long time, but the shots they stay with and it's it was written by Robert Benchley or the dialogue was written by Robert Benchley and crackles like it is it is just absolutely electric. It's really funny. So foreign correspondent number four great pick. As I said, man, the neier skipping number four, which means we're going to number three for Wesley who's returning to to be hedren Oh, the birds. Again manifestation movie. But the thing that I love about this one is. Okay so there's A. Earlier in this conversation I mentioned that there are ways to watch him and in depends on where you are on your life and like what your interests are in who you might be an I find as satisfying as Foreign correspondent and notorious and suspicion and. Strangers on a train, a handful of other movies I I keep coming back to the things that I don't understand. Rate I really like. Watching, something over and over again where I really feel like this is GonNa be the occasion that it did it. All makes sense. There's some thing I missed and I saw the birds probably like three of you too early. I was it was like the ABC Sunday night movie or something or like Assad on TV like network television some night of the week and it freaked me out. And just the site of Everybody running and fleeing in the birds didn't look vaguely anyway. But the idea that this this this bird attack is is a manifestation of. This relationship between Tippi hedren character John Saxons character, Sean Saxon Right? No it's is taxing it the idea wait no which Rod Rod Taylor Taylor Ray. Had I forget Oh my God Again. They just don't make them like they did in the fifties and sixties I'm sorry. Oh. My God Rod Taylor. Roger Federer and he's got. Hitchcock's taste in men is just as good as his taste in women. That's the thing. Yeah. All of his men very hot. Yeah. Yes. Correio I don't know I. Don't need to say anything rude about late stage Jimmy Stewart on this podcast or keep going. We'll get to vertigo don't worry. Don't be a circle and help for you. Just go on charity. That's fine. Go ahead. I, the birds I just I really really loved that we there's so many things we don't know every time you watch it. You think you know the movie doesn't try to expand the one. The crowning achievement of the movie is there is no shrink that comes in and says, well, you know the reason there's a there's a big ornithology crisis had we've we've I apologised Dr. Bob. I've come to explain to you why Tippi Hedren. You are in trouble why these things keep happening to you like I. I've watched this movie thinking that the Jessica, Tandy's character who plays the plays Rod Rod Taylor's mother is, is like controlling the birds and making them attack to just the way that in these small towns settings, these very basic things like wanting to have sex with someone against the wishes of some other person In this case, another mother can bring on the damnation of an entire place in form of these these horrible creatures I just I love it and like just the watching experience just the opening of the door and she looks in the. Greasy Yours Command escaped out and it never fails to freak you out. It's a frightening disgusting image I turned it off I like I. The thing is, is that I was like not brave enough to put the birds on my list because I cannot sit through the birds because I tried to watch it this week. Soon, as those words came out of the fireplace I was like out I'm not doing this. This is chew. Creepy. And that's a testament hitchcock right? I was honestly trying to figure out whether like my fear of crowds of birds are something that he understands and is reflecting in the movie or whether learning gave it to the creepy from the birds but let me tell you. I know the intersections in Los Angeles where the Bird Circle Okay Hollywood in Vermont Ronan hyperion like I'm not going here those places and it's because movie and because of how creepy? Soon like no. Well, it's. It's so funny was that you describe it as a kind of a psychological manifestation because it also just feels. So clearly like a man should not fuck with nature movie, you know this is nature's revenge and there's so many there's so many ominous shots especially at the end of the movie from the bird's eye view literally, Yom, you see the birds looking down on the the pitiful humans and their inability to handle this crisis and you know man I did a top five apocalypse movies episode a couple months ago and I regret not putting this this by the way. Thanks for listening. Thanks for checking. That's great. with this movie this is one of the ultimate doom movies. This is what do you do all of their like eight twenty, four freak out horror movies they all a huge debt to this movie because this is like this is inexplicable terror and that's so much more power. We don't know why right? Now. I'm in the movie. Right, the it just works on so many different levels and it's the one where he is the one of these movies to me where he just where he doesn't give up on. Key. Just let's the the conceit be the conceit without needing to satisfy people as to what what the problem is. The happening Shamlan still you know I mean like you know nobody I can't believe I. Just said that name of that movie and this And Neil a real like one of hitchcock's many progeny and night. Shamlan. Who for awhile really had it in till you know he started to become if you can be if you can be literal and metaphorical at the same time, that is where he wound up by the time to happening comes were like his allusions were literal about metaphorical things that he just was to not imaginative enough about. in terms of how to make them cinema anyway next. Sorry. He also just one last thing about the birds he invents one of my favorite sub genres in this movie, which is I'm going to cast Veronica Cartwright to freak the fuck out in my move. Oh. Yes. Yes. which you know she shows up in doing the same thing invasion of the body snatchers. Which is this quick? She. Her Veronica. Melting down is the that's one of the best things in movies and he was the first one to discover that. Chris I. Think we're onto you now for number three. Number three. A movie we've mentioned a little bit here in this conversation. What's your pick rope? WHO I love this movie because it's not a who done it will they get away with it and there are definitely like long stretches of this movie. Really they're gonNA get away with it. And I think that obviously. You're kind of watching it from your waiting Jimmy Stewart's character for this housemaster from their private school till I figure this out and there's all this fucked up stuff about Uber benches superiority in class. But you know for virtue listed this movie is it's obvious if you don't know this is it's it's told quote unquote as one shot, but there are actually some subtle at its within it. I never really even think about that. I never really even think about the fact that it's just one shot or even just one setting and this lifeboat are one setting movies but do you make any more than that Sean? Anymore one setting movies like that I don't think. So those are the two. So this movie is set during Dinner Party or these two absolute Shit Lords have murdered their friends to see if they can get away with it and. Then, have a dinner party to basically. Like flooded I. Mean they're trying they're getting away with it but they wanNA challenge themselves and see if they can invite you know the victims you know close friends and family, and also get the basically tacit approval of their mentor play by Jimmy Stewart for what they've done and you know it is really really sexually charged John Farley granger of play the two killers and I fucking love a mystery dinner party I. Guess I, just I I was curious. How you felt about rope. I'm sort of torn about it because I feel like it does satisfy the one thing about hitchcock that I'm frequently disappointed in terms of like how fucked up. A movie can be. But I feel like key is again my frustration though is that that those guys craziness? Is Offset by the mannerist way in which the film is made. So it's so easy I mean. Multiple viewings sort of you become a nerd to the to the conceit. But nonetheless, the conceit I think is there to sort of. Distract in some ways from both the the sort of depraved nature of the bed. But also to sort of. I don't know there's no getting around the homoerotic in this movie like this. HOMOEROTIC. Here gay guys. Yeah. And I don't know Jimmy Stewart knows he's playing a gay guy that guy's definitely get. And I I don't know I just you know there's a there's a way in which like there's a version of cock where the mannerism sort of upstages all the other interesting psychological and and interpersonal things that are happening. So really the form becomes more important than than than everything else and sometimes that like in psycho, for instance, that really works But here I don't know I just I. Have, now I haven't seen it in in about ten years another one I've watched in a while but I. Still I had a hard time, even ten years ago, getting past the the the conceit. But again, it's still fascinating to watch what you're watching, which is like to sick people it's based on the Lee Loeb Leopold and Loeb case I think from the thirties or early forties Bad History Wesley but it. It takes that shocking case in manages to lake almost literally formalize it in the form of a dinner party. and you know it's clever but I think to me that's all it is. It's interesting I. Don't know if any of you guys have seen this movie scene compulsion but compulsion is almost like a docudrama version of the leopold low case and it charts that story over a course of time, and it's not a bad film and it features a really hilarious way over the top Orson Welles performance as a as a lawyer I. I've never seen compulsion. It's interesting but it's not nearly as interesting as rope just because even just from a purely technical perspective rope obviously is you know he hitchcock is one of those people who you can see gets bored with the work, and so he keeps throwing roadblocks in front of himself to make it more interesting and that's what's The dynamic that he's created here and I mean think of how many times this movie has been ripped off. Now, we just went through the nineteen seventeen narrative over the course of the last twelve months, and this is this is kind of where that starts I. Mean they're kind of unbroken continuity is is where it begins. So number three, four Amanda I'm going to ask you to hold it Amanda so. Allure silenced for picking all the the greatest films basically because I have the most overlap with everyone and that's the best taste. I. Don't get to speak but that's fine. If it makes you feel any better. I haven't been able to speak about any of my films yet, either until now because my number three okay is is your number two and also Wesley's number two and that movie is north by northwest. There's anyone ever told you that you overplay various when those around the severity Mr Kaplan. I share the outrage Madison Avenue man who claims he's been mistaken for someone else. And you play the fugitive from justice opposed to trying to clear his name of a crime he knows it. You play the peevish Lavers time by jealousy and betrayal. Seems to you could stand a little just training from the FBI. Actors Studio. Powder performance at the satisfy you is when I played dead. Very next Rio you'll be quite convincing I show you twenty five dollars. Thank you which. Reputational, only is considered a Hollywood classic is considered. One of the most glamorous exciting thrilling stories ever put to film. This is incredibly weird movie one of the weirdest movies that I can remember. at times remarkably incoherent. At times it's five fully confusing. But also features almost all of his signatures. We were just talking about, for example, the homoerotic subtext and a lot of his movies. This has a key one of the key storylines in that respect, we talk about his set pieces and his shots. This has the Mount Rushmore shot, which is a callback to the Statue of Liberty Shot in saboteur. This has. One of the key cary grant performances as a person who is it's it's remarkable to think that someone like Roger Thornhill could walk through the world in a successful and dashing advertising executive in ever be confused for anyone else and yet that is the premise of the movie. There are few more singular people in cary grant and yet no one believes that he's essentially this proxy for Cary Grant. White dudes all look alike. All know. We knew it in the fifties. It does feature a rare unambiguously bad villain in James. Mason. Who is clearly just a fascist monster and a manipulator of people but the thing that. He's wonderful. He if this movie features my all time favorite line in all hitchcock movies, which is. When Carey Grant says I believe you'd be happier if I were playing dead and he said it'll be your. I can't even remember exactly. I can't do James Mason. I. Wish I could do James Mason. He's basically like it's your next part and you'll be wonderful in it. You know something that effect. It's your next and you'll be wonderful. House. Those pretty good. And then also you know even Marie Saint Yup another beautiful blonde ice queen in the Hitchcock Arsenal. Who is asked to do a little bit more than most women in movies like this has asked to do ultimately she really she is the ambiguous centrifugal force who you can never kind of see where which direction she's moving in. She seems very she's very influenced, but she's also grabs a a certain amount of personal liberty in the story and on top of that, it's just it's absolutely gorgeous to look at the the way that it's shot the color the costumes are unbelievable I think this is still edith head and we haven't even used to heads name. I mean, she is such a huge part of his movies and you know the the the famous suit that that he wears an Marie. Saint. The what she's wearing throughout this film is just an absolutely like stonning big top Hollywood production. It is like the platonic ideal in many ways of that for me. So Amanda what what is it that you respond to? North by northwest I mean everything you just said, but you know I love James Bond Movies, and this in events James Bond movies I mean it's a dashing man in the possibly the greatest movie suit of all time doing something trying to get himself out of situation is not like a James Bond movie but everything else it's like a series of locations and. Evil, possibly fascist villain who is going to end the world unless unless cary grant saves things great. Sign me up like end the more ridiculous. The set pieces as they go on the better, which is how you get to Mount Rushmore, which you know is like a little bit of an in joke quality to that which I enjoy as well. I. It's it's my type of movie with pobably my favorite like old Hollywood male movie starring cary grant is for me and this is this to me is p Carey Grant. At least. It's like the it's the essential cary grant in terms of what makes him cary grant yes. I think it's I think it's bringing up baby and this sort of like the to celebrities right those early to like. Wasn't what about you? What do you dig about it? I mean nobody ever thinks of hitchcock this way, but it's just the most one of those glamorous movies ever made. It is just it's just glamorous. It is such an advertisement for beauty and handsomeness not just people but of locations and of space and of situations I mean like what a luxury to be mistaken for be for cary grant. when you're when you're actually Gary Grand what luxury mistaken for anybody in not be not be killed. You know but that still be running for your life. But in pursuit of clearing your name at the same time you know it's just. It just you know there's a is a cabin sequence on livable it is. I don't know I it just everything about this movie is sort of designed to. Make you salivate. And stress you out. and. You know the absurdities the mount rushmore sequence is I would actually bad. But. It's Mount Rushmore somebody had the audacity to stage in action sequence on the noses and is of of you know. What what I mean what what is characterized wash morts, American greatness. But it's kind of mocking it at the same time rate lakes visit a monument to greatness but we're D- we're going to have people swing off of it and almost falling off of it. It is. It is such a shrinking down of this of this monument to like. American greatness that even that is sort of pleasurable like takes the like technical badness out of it I don't know. I just really love there is never a time when this movie is randomly on, it should be it should be on more than it actually is, but anytime, I. If I'm walking by a place that is showing a restaurant or a, you know some place in public showing this movie I will stop what I'm doing to just watch as much of it as I can as I, have time to watch I will Miss Hitting Watch this movie on the street I think I think when you're born in America, they should give you a kit and in the kit you find one bottle of Budweiser beer one, her she her one subscription to the watch podcast and one copy of north by northwest. That's what should be if you WANNA learn how to be an American. This is what you have to do. Well, I went through a copy of the fire next time in there too just. So you know what is going to cost you to be that American just. Three treat that drink beer in Riga James Baldwin just see you. Chris you. You you hate America, which is why you hate the sell. Whatever I do these I just tried to I tried to be like a unique little flower you. And I I have a couple of years Canon and they're just like hall of Famer Hitchcock Movies, but I also wanted to get a little bit more. bespoke no, it's a good call. We didn't even mention the crop duster sequence, which is one of the most iconic in the history of cinema and I'm reminded when you mentioned that that sort of that forced set house towards the end of the movie in that exchange between who is it? It's it's James Mason and Martin Landau, right? Yeah. Yes. If you go back and watch the Steven soderbergh movie The limy the final twenty five minutes of that movie is basically That entire sequence, same kind of house same kind of experience peering into that house. What's happening inside the house? That's where the power is anyway northwest is is very special and very important. So, we've knocked out my number three amandas number two and Wesley's number two, which takes us to Chris is number two, which is my number four and does number four, which is what Chris notorious. Why didn't? I know. I couldn't see strata think straight. I was feted guy full of pain. Tommy up not having you. Know No. yeezus crazy. This movie is good. This movie is fucked up to I. Forgot about that like in my mind I'm like it's Cary Grant Ingrid Bergman, and they are spies in Brazil, and what more could you want and? And then you just remember Oh he pimps her out. I forgot like I that's the this movie is so depraved in so many ways and the tension between its elegance and its grace, and it's And Its charm and what the movie is about, which is about basically like. Honey potting a Nazi. Is is so wild to me but this this movie is Guy Everything that you would want honestly from from like when you're sitting watching a movie like I was I was just still discovering stuff about this after however many times I've seen it over however many years like I was watching the other night and there's a moment on the plane early in the movie were cary. Grant Tells Ingrid Bergman that her father has died from poisoning and hitchcock just stabs in someone laughing from back. Angry Bird Mrs like. It's just like this this sixth sense of humor this sick. codependent relationship there you you wind up kind of like kind of liking. Claude rains in this movie I mean it's just the the. The way it sweeps you off. Your feet is, is wonder if I'd love you guys think about it. Amanda. What do you love about it? You Got Mad at me when you saw that I was choosing this why? Because I did have kind of like some preconceptions in my head of what everyone on this podcast would pick and I chew. Well, actually. You are always surprising but I kinda thought I knew Shawn's less in particular and a little bit Chris's last and I was trying to plan accordingly and then Sean took two movies that I thought were going to be squarely in the Amanda Corner and. But I like where we do this are you and I that chuck and Nancy don't come together and get stuff done yesterday. See when we did we not just boil anything but we are going to later on this podcast shot a particular. To and notorious together. I was just like damn I really I didn't think you were going to do both these but. I think for notorious for me like Chris I, like spy movies and. And and again I do often think about it in terms of being like, oh, well, it's cary grant and Ingrid Brimming Bergman, like being spies great great stuff and I think I saw this I mean I certainly saw this after Casa Blanca after I saw Casa Blanca, but I also think i. saw it. With like the shadow of Casa Blanca Casablanca, hanging over me, which it's still kind of does always I. Mean I'm a human being. But also not really expecting Ingrid Bergman to to be doing what she does in this movie and every time I watch it. Part of me is just kind of like Engelberg like I pleased like, get it together like this is not what we do in World War Two or thereabouts Ingrid Bergman okay. And and so then I go on the journey through. A lot of ways. You know what they ask her to do is really really messed up and what happens is really messed up but I do think this movie is like more interested in the morality of what they ask the woman to do and what the woman is going through. Then a lot of hitchcock movies and you know maybe some of that is 'cause it's like Ingrid Bergman, and I'm just like emotionally invested in her but I think it's interesting and. To see her at the center of it in this way and also honestly because I do consume. So many spy movies to kind of explore the morality of like spicy stuff this way. Yeah. Because you know the fact as it's like there's always like honey potting or something off like the referenced in in a movie and people are doing all sorts of horrific thing and spy movies by you're just supposed to be like well. For King and country and in this it really. It like examines and makes you feel pretty slimy about also they flip it where it a lot of spy films happens is. An agent running or or? Asian running an asset will fall for the asset once they've already asked them to do something fucked on and they'll go now I'm compromised he falls for her before he asks for the fucked up thing. So it's is it not as much of a Gut Punch but it's a Gut Punch for Devlin in notorious to because he's just like I'm on this fucking Brazilian vacation with Ingrid Bergman this is. Great Times and then he's like, oh I gotta get her did you what now? Okay you know and that's and that's that's the kind of little twists that he adds sometimes that that's just great. The one thing about this there's a couple of things that I respond to about it. One I. Think we'll Wesley was saying earlier about psycho and the way that the president is instantly passed and reflecting on it is a huge part of this and the inescapable of the past is a huge part of this story and huge Ingrid Bergman's character in the kind of like the anxiety that her being asked to be put in this position draws out of her and I grew them into that it's a more sensitive to this kind of figure than some of his other films are but. Honestly that perhaps this is very me but I think that this is the single best shot in his career is in this movie and Ins at the ballroom gala ranch cameras allred. And trails down the stairs and it moves in and it slowly zooms in zooms in zooms in zooms in, and then you see the key and Ingrid Bergman's hand and whether you mentioned McGovern's and the key obviously is that the key isn't the macguffin necessarily. But the pursuit of the key leads us to the macguffin of this movie, which is ultimately I think uranium or nine, which is stored in a wine cellar and crazy to have in a movie during war by the way or like just after war like just whoa and that's that's another thing is that he was always the. Same way the Casablanca is like this he was always making movies in real time about these issues. You know saboteurs the same way that was in nineteen forty two about the construction of airplanes during World War Two, and he had an ability to reflect the times in a way that most filmmakers even now who work in these of modes of suspense and horror, they don't necessarily work to reflect what's going on literally in the real world and he he did it all the time and this movie is just an example of that. But more specifically like this is kind of him I, think. Reaching a kind of technical power and all. That so it was so much harder to do those things eighty years ago in this movie was made than it is. Now you know the idea of doing a shot like that takes days of planning days maybe even weeks, and if after you've seen it enough times and you start to look more closely at the way that he does things, I'd like my admiration for grows and that's one of the reasons why it's on the list among all the other reasons you pointed out what were you going to say? Oh, I I agree with you guys I. The thing nickname I wanted to have I mean I guess I made this to catch a thief I mean I I sorta I guess I made this north by northwest for me. But I I wanted to put something on the list that Lake that spoke to this other hitchcock but I want that I do think notorious. Is the most mature hitchcock. Movie. I think it's the one where he could have gone down this track that essentially put the George Q couriers and. Michael Kerr teases and. Whole like this other class of very serious dramatic director out of business where everybody would've wanted to keep working with Alfred Hitchcock to make these sort of serious romantic. Topical Hollywood Movies but you know again like this is not about like what other directors can't do. But the thing that makes him great is he knows how to make a shot. He knows he's he's got a great guy and he's had a great imagination for what the camera can do. And he isn't a and he's got. He's also like the instinct. A lot of what psychologically interesting about hitchcock to me is cutting the editing tells you you know as much about what's happening in the characters mind as the as were the camera is like telling you to look It's the assemblage of these images into something that feels like like like psychological. This is not so much the case in notorious but. You're still watching something that for me is a cut above anything near it in terms of Hollywood like what we would classify. Hollywood, melodrama of from that greet age of the nineteen forties Yeah I'm glad that three out of four of us put her I mean I could have done it as well but I did not. So it turns out that I am the only person who has the next film on his list I imagine Amanda If. It's this right outside the top five for you. Again, I was a little bit mad that you took it because I was like well, I just thought I would have this one and let's talk about it but we can talk about it. Now I'd be happy to join in the conversation. Let's talk about it. Now, my number two pick is Rebecca. I didn't expect to see Mrs Dan Visa and noticed windy wasn't closed in that came up see fast. Why didn't you say that? I close it before I left the room. You yourself didn't you. You've always wanted to see this room. Haven't you Madam Short you. Everyday. And Rebecca is notable for many reasons that Hollywood nineteen forties melodrama that you're describing Leslie I. Think this might be the pinnacle of that style and it's notable for being the only movie that hitchcock made. That won best picture. And it's A. It's a production with David o cells neck when they were still getting along before that, that relationship completely was frayed in the nineteen forties though it sounds like the friction created great creativity between them, and this is a lot of different kinds of films. It's a psychological thriller it's Ghost Story. It's a romantic melodrama. It's a kind of bodice-ripper in a way and it's a story I think about torture in some ways to and the complex relationship between these characters. and. It features some of my favorite performances. In any film ever really but I think Joan Fontaine is really interesting figure her name has not been uttered yet even though she appears in two of my favorites Rebecca, and also suspicion, which is one of the most avant hitchcock movies such a great movie that also features a really fun cary grant performance and this movie is. Similarly, gorgeous and obsessed with representation in a way and what this home represents and also mannerly the home and also what the the the specter of the aura of Laurence Olivier dead wife who is named Rebecca, and notably we don't ever get to know what Joan. Fontaine. Characters name is. She's Justin. She's just misses dewinter. She's just she's a shadow and Rebecca is everything. She's the light which obviously not the case as we go through the story we. Learned that things are not exactly as they seem with Rebecca the reason Laurence Olivier is so mysterious and so distraught is because Rebecca was a bit more complicated than that. But I think from a formal perspective and even emotionally this is as close as as hitchcock got to pursuing heart and pursuing a kind of like emotionalism, which is not really something that he necessarily seemed so keen on as he gets older Amanda. What is it that you respond to? I mean this to me is a horror movie and this. It is told from the perspective of a young woman who doesn't really know what she's gotten herself into, and then everywhere she goes people are turning on her and and to me like the the very memorable scene from this movie which I was like I said, I was given this at a very young age I. Think I was given the novel Rebecca like. Way Way Way way too early, but that's fine So I was learning a little bit about things from this this book and and the movie but? This scene in which Laurence Olivier is just like here's let me tell you really what happened and this kind of tortured. Loving. But like distant husband who you're doing everything, you possibly can to please and you're just going to like work any situation at all to try to make this man happy and then he's like, yes, actually the problem is I killed my first wife and you're just like and that is just that's that's a twist that has stayed with me in every single relationship that I've had with a man romantic or otherwise you don't know what's coming and then the Mrs Andrews Character is obviously a great character and like the visual elements of it, and of course, the shadow of Rebecca. I think in terms of movie being told from a woman's perspective, it's not great. What happens to the woman in the movie I do find it up pretty interesting. And I have thought a lot about it. One of the great films were were down to the end here. So we all have number ones remaining. We're going to start with you was Lee which is your number. One is my number five. What is it? Vertigo. It's Vertigo listen. I, I would love I. Mean I. Love Rebecca I haven't seen Rebecca in a long time. I was going to try to watch it for today but I didn't get to I'm curious to see how I feel about it. Since I've watched, you know about six years ago. That movie is fantastic talk about repression and whatever we mean by the return of the repressed Fontaine is great. It looks great the sweep of it. It's it's it, but it also feels like it is of a piece with a moment in Hollywood and it is it is. It is a it's a Hollywood movie that Alfred Hitchcock directed to me It doesn't feel it's a great movie period, but is it a great hitchcock movie? I don't know I mean it's got a Lotta hitchcock themes and It's technically perfect And it's it's a it's something that plays with the audience a lot but. The, all the themes in that movie. Are explored in a in a much crazier way to me a lot of those themes in vertigo where you have. You think that what you're watching is the story of this cop who is convalescing. And what should be under ordinary circle? If this were a Bob Hope Lucille ball movie, it would have been about how this cop had an accident and now he's trapped at home with his with his girlfriend wife or whatever, and she's driving him nuts with this course it business. and. He. Just needs to get out of their house and so I I mean, I don't know who would show up it would be it'd be Rita Hayworth or somebody like that. I'm she'd show up or not maybe not Rita Hayworth it'd be like. It'd he sees to good. She's too big. It have to be like Mamie van Doren or somebody which show up, and you know give him some distraction for for for a weekend or something but no, no, no, no, no, no. No this is. This is. A guy who has an roses. Doesn't understand the degree to which has neurosis dictating him. and. Doesn't understand how much each for pressed about not only being neurotic but about his sexuality in this figure shows up in the form of of you know he's chasing this woman. And he thinks he I mean, I'm not gonNA lay out the plot of Vertigo but. The ways in which this isn't quite aside a side B-movie, but it's very close in that. You know there's a constant in the sides and that's Jimmy Stewart's character but the movie sort of like flips on itself and becomes this this other story of obsession he's he's like obsessed twice and it's the one movie of Hitchcock's that I think is top to bottom perfect Rebecca is Rebecca's pretty close This is this is a perfect movie in it's a perfect hitchcock movie in that. It. Doesn't matter how many times you watch this film. You are never going to some movie strip in some ways you're never gonna understand what really happened. nobody comes explains anything at the end and you're then left with what is hitchcock's greatest character. This Scotty Officer Scotty is great when it like one of his great women, Barb-, Barbara Bel Getty's met Midge the symbols. Great. This course at idea the brassiere, these things that constrict and hold, but also support. that. That a woman knows instinctively that a man finds sort of like. Strange in in limiting feminine. The symbols are great. The metaphors are great. It doesn't matter how many times you watch this movie. You really won't remember how things connect to each other in every c every seen in many shots surprises. If you ask me to tell you the plot of this movie I honestly I'd fucked something up and I've seen this movie fifteen times probably. I don't know. It's just it's just a wins a sight and sound poll I don't know if it wins every if it's one every year but like the last three, I think it was either one or two. This is the one the unseeded citizen Kane Right. Yeah. and You I get it. I do not want this to be one of those movies that I don't get out of citizen Kane what I get outta verdict. which is. Just just limitless nece in terms of what it is and what it means and. Like something about the way that he Is Trying to understand sex and lust and. His own issues of being punished for for for wanting is fascinating and like the the metaphor just Cli- like. Erections and falling off of them in impotence and It's just it's never it's never metaphorical enough. It's never symbolic enough. I don't know I just think it is it is. It is one of the great movies about. About attraction that I've ever seen. I think the reason that it has been supplanted in the sight and sound polls over the last couple of decades. Is. Citizen. Kane is a vision. Of filmmakers take on something. Or some wells' on power on the rise of a certain kind of power on expression on politics and on psychology in some ways right on childhood trauma. Doesn't feel like. The essence of Orson Welles is. Mind interests it feels like the best possible iteration of that story the most sophisticated telling of that story Vertigo feels like what we understand. is in Hitchcock's mind it feels like he has pushed his thumbprint on the print of the movie and that maybe that's just projection the same way that all there's projections throughout all of his movies but to me, it feels most like the movie of him trying to capture why he so says the filmmaking, why are you so obsessed with beauty why he's obsessed with desire and Weiss obsessed with obsession and? You know it's technically an amazing movie. It's an incredibly unsatisfying movie, the first two or three times but you see it and I think that's a reason why it's still divisive. I, think obviously amongst synod files and critics, it is so. It so hugely admired, but I think among just kind of workaday hitchcock fans. It's still there is still something kind of impenetrable about it because. It ends like quite tragically, but abruptly I mean the end of that movie is we're we're the movie go. We're not even GONNA. You'RE NOT GONNA. Tell me what what all this was or who Scotty really is and I think the one thing that's interesting about it too and I was thinking about this as we were talking about north by northwest and psycho, and these movies all come in succession. He goes vertigo north by northwest psycho, which is. Run, it's. It's yeah. It's incredible and there's a there's a credible kind of read style case that all three of those movies are happening in the mind their dreams of the main character that. In a way Roger Thornhill is having a daydream it a boring day of work and that he is pursued man or that Norman Bates is fantasizing about his idea of sexual woman who'd come into his life on announced. But most specifically, the vertigo theory is, is that when at the very beginning of the movie went Scotty is pursuing a criminal leaping from roof to roof and he leaps onto that roof and he grabs and he misses any grabs onto the gutter from that moment forward. A theory that the rest of the movie is all in his mind and that everything else is a manifestation of fear and anxiety and what Vertigo provokes inside your mind which is. You know forgive the Pun but pretty heady stuff I mean that's really the idea that you can read deeply into something and suggest that is powerful. I never liked the dream interpretation to that because. I respect them and I think fine. But like it kind of leads the movie I don't like like when you find out and I feel like this might be a thing that Chris Hey I'm going to predict the Chris hates this to like I. Don't like what you find out something's injury like I fucking hate that I really hate it And if at the end Vertigo, Scotty woken up and been like, Oh, well, that was close niche. I. Love You. Like. Bid Be, terrible, and I'm not saying that the people who think it's a dream went that that's not what they're saying but I just I I love that the movie just it is a dream does gives us the dream and doesn't solve that for us but I also think that again it's a manifestation movie and what you are watching whether it's happening in slumber or happening in the films. Reality is the manifestation of of confusion and suppression but also like the the consequences of letting go of what you're suppressing in in in holding back like this is what happens when you go for what you want. you get re traumatized I. Don't know I just I. Mean it is. It's just a it's a perfect movie I can watch this tomorrow and be like wait everything I said you guys yesterday I, take it back. I have different feelings about this movie now and I still love it but it's a totally different movie to me. Also the all time best hitchcock score in my opinion minore hermit absolute pinnacle of his stuff. Okay. So that's Vertigo Chris and Amanda Sharon Number One, which is just downright adorable. To speak first, on, their number one. Go ahead while this, I'll just guest. Here's here's the number one movie. Lisa. Carol. Fremont. Probably. A bit I just think right turned on all my life. Is really good. If very good, it's rear window. Humanity you. Yeah. I. All I had was that bit I have no thoughts. I think in a in a lot of this is a summation of all of. The hitchcock things that we've been talking about for the last like I don't know eight hours at this point, but in terms of. Psychology and in terms of repression and in terms of. Psycho drama and also it's one of the most accessible like plots and stories. You can watch we were window is a story about someone staring out a window and like wanting to know more about their neighbors and then even in terms of like the macguffin of it, all he has to he is at least like solving a murder and like the murder itself is like a bit ridiculous. ABC ABC. It's like a story and then I it just it. It works both on that level and on the level of like we're all creeps who are like sitting here at home staring at the of the world rather than participating, which I think honestly is also a great summation of or one summation of filmmaking possibly a more cynical version of a film filmmaking but I think if vertigo is both like. Why is the full making experience and like trying to? Make peace, and also chastise yourself for aspects of it. Then I think rear window is a little bit about I don't know admitting or. More honestly, speaking about the that we're all just a little bit perverted and all a little bit interested in what's going on elsewhere I always think it's a great. New. York. Movie a great summer movie, a great murder mystery and. And great movies or movie and how Great Movies are movie and probably my favorite of the grace Kelly performances. Yeah it's the best. Oh, it's. It's. It's her. I would say it's my it's my favorite performance by her. Yeah. Sure. Yeah Bobby, I was GONNA. Say the bobby should play the interaction between to the about the differences between them when she's sort of spread out on the on the. Dress and it's just like more glamorous. Your opinion is is is your manner I don't think I kid. SIMMER DOWN I can't fit in he here you can't fit in there. I mean. According to you people should be on live than die on the same spot up. Also Thelma Ritter. Like. Oh Yeah Ritter. One of our one of our great you know just national treasure it's on a secret everybody knows everybody who knows though Moreno's Thelma Ritter grates he was appreciated in her time but her contributions to this movie as like. Like the opposite of Grace Kelly, in terms of lake moving through the other side of the looking glass in some ways and also just like common sense i. feel maybe sometimes I get a little frustrated with vertigo because it's so self-indulgent. So so selfish, you know self involved and that is like the power of it and a lot of ways. But in rear window, you have several different people. Providing, different perspectives to Jimmy Stewart of just being like okay. But actually like. How normal people live here how relationships work and then and then ultimately everyone does kinda get sucked into it. As as you as you pointed out like the moment when grace, Kelly is like okay. Yeah. Now now now we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA get down to business and solve this. Agree moments of. Like of all time in a movie exactly, and it's like more exciting because she's been skeptical about it for a while. I will just say that I can't in good conscience choose rear window from list because my wife's favorite movie of all time is dialed I'm from murder, and that's a movie that's probably been on in our home more than any other. And that is definitely her favourite grace. Kelly performance and I don't know if it's my I mean that that movie is remarkable just for Ray land there's the county all time. Best. Ever. But. I think that you know the the work that they did together is pretty amazing and they'd all comes in succession to write it goes it dial M for murder and and ruined are in the same year they came in the same year. And then the following years to catch a thief, which is I mean you see it's really hard to put this in context. That's pretty amazing. Yeah and then she was like you know what I'm out, I'm hanging it up. I WANNA go see meets Prince Rainier like on this while she's there to catch a thief, which is hilarious or not hilarious actually as it turned out. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to say about rear window just briefly, and this is timely but it definitely a great core movie like in terms of being stuck in the house and looking at in the world and trying to imagine your place in it I was like, wow, this is resonating in a in a new way for me. Yeah I mean it is a movie about movie making it's movie about movie watching. It's a movie about like the depraved nature of both those things You know there are these moments and other hitchcock movies where were you know somebody will address the theme of the hitchcock movie like what everybody loves him don't you love motor don't you love a terrible death story? Don't we all love I think strangers on a train is the one that keeps kidding that note over and over again about how pleasurable it is to experience these stories of of people dying and death but I think the thing that's appealing about rear window is if finds a way to turn that that that attraction into like a very good pop entertainment. and you know to catch a thief rear window north by northwest. I think are are is three great lake just just pure pop movies the don't need any of the. The sort of manifestations of I've been talking about to to work. There just like great contraptions from beginning to end and. they're just a pleasure to watch. Yeah I mean I I would only add I was reading about the making of the movie last night and. As reading about the taking six weeks to recreate ninth street in the West village on the paramount lot. As you think about the craft like into these movies and and every choice is so considered imperfect. Everything from obviously her her costuming is so impeccable but. Just the space that both characters occupy the way the camera frames them within that space. It's like the there's not a single thing that seems superfluous or tossed off, but it also never feels worried over and. I. was so rare and movies because you see a lot of movies like self-consciously kind of weird or like they have the flourishes and every single thing is of a in rear window it it. It is a note perfect piece of culture to me. Yeah, I would agree with that. So one movie left my number one. It's a movie that's come up a few times in this conversation and I have a very specific reason for liking it. which may be makes me some somewhat less than human but I'm going to share it. It's one of the things I feel a kinship with hitchcock about is the my absolute cynicism and distrust of people and strangers on a train is perhaps the most acidic movie ever made is in the deepest depths of doubt and despair humanity. Now. Let's say that you'd like to get rid of your wife. It's a morbid thought. Oh no no no just suppose. Let's say that you had a very good reason. Now. Let's. Let's say. You'd be Franken why you get caught. and. What would trip you up? The motive. now. I'm afraid of haven't got time to listen listen. It's so simple. To fellas me accidentally like you. Know connection between them at all never saw each other before each one has somebody that he liked to get rid up. So. They swap murders swap murders. Fellow does the other fellow's murder then there's nothing to connect them. Each one has murdered a total stranger. Like you do my murder. Coming into my end, it also features the Union of two pretty incredible people who've you know? Have a lot in common but not everything common and that's Alfred Hitchcock and Patricia Highsmith and strangers on a train highsmith's first novel and I would say not her best based on the books that I've read but it does something that. So many of her great books do which is that it's very easy to explain what the movie is about in two sentences just like the is very easy to explain what her novels are about in two sentences but that very rarely captures the depths of the story and strangers on a train is. A movie that all you need to do is watch the first three minutes and all walks in. It's just incredible what he accomplishes a very small window of time to get you invested in the story between these two men and they there may be agreed upon maybe not agreed upon packed to commit murder for one another and even though this movie is not the most beautiful to look at hitchcock film, it's black and white is not in that incredible technicolor. Chris I, mean. But I mean again pleasurable pleasurable like it's crispness both you know. Visually, and also in its in its editing and the frame tonight. Yeah it's just that's that's that's that's exactly what I was. GonNa say it's it's it's a it's a a diamond the way that shaped in and it's repulsive and it's got incredible set pieces and it's got all of that dread particularly in the first murder the murder of the Miriam character when. We watch Bruno Traumas for wear glasses is just brutal or is she punished for being a bad person and withholding the divorce from the character that's the thing. Every character in this movie is guilty guilty of something that you know and as guilty of trying to break up a marriage you know there's a vanity going on with Farley granger's character that is an there's a kind of lack of seriousness that he's being punished for. It's a really brutal EST movie about how Hitchcock sees people in a lot of this conversation we've been having is like Does he like characters is is he you know purely a machinist whose chess pieces around this to me feels like a like the banging gavel on what he thinks about human relationships and? Maybe that's not a necessarily healthy reason for loving it but I do love it for that reason in one, thousand, nine, hundred, fifty, one at the absolute height of Eisenhower Post. War. Let's put America's decent face on and grow the suburbs. This is what Alfred Hitchcock saw in. America. That's just what America wanted to see in itself. It was a huge hit. Yes. So that's that's it. I mean, are there are any any stray movies? You guys didn't talk about that? You want to just give any shots to. I will say that the Sequence in the thirty four version of the man who knew too much. 'cause hitchcock made that movie twice. Once in thirty four and once in fifty six with Jimmy Stewart the opening. That's do you guys remember this? There's a shot on the sloops, not a shot to sequence and it's like it's it opened on the slopes in. San Moritz. And this is of a blackout right? Is it a it's such a blur like like, no, it's just like there's an aggregate. There's nothing you're thinking. Aren't you thinking of a thirty-nine steps? No No. No similar. But this is just this is not a plot thing will it is a little bit but like the opening sequences just like there's some kind of. Like physical altercation that lake is like somebody. skiing into a crowd or something, and you know a lot of kerfuffle but the way that it is represented in the montage is just. Getting is in Stinian. You know catch it while you're is can grab it sort of free in. It's unlike the the only time I can think he's got to see you know they're sequence like that I guess suspicion. and then psycho the shot, the the shower sequence where like the images are coming at you so fast that you can't keep up with them, but it's very brief and it's the moment in the movie where that's the case. But I love that. CR anything you, WANNA, shout out here. I'm going to the British stuff on criterion. Criterion Channel stuff that's on that. Yeah. Yeah. So I just I. Love those. Not Early but like that that thirties era I think thirty nine steps and Lodger and a couple of other things around there. So I mean there's not a lot of bad hitchcock movies. Yeah it's hard. We basically just completely skipped over the nineteen thirties even though some of his most acclaimed movies happen because the the fifties and sixties movies are so powerful and so iconic that feel strange to have a conversation like this without them being the centerpiece Amanda. Anything, you want site. Yeah in speaking of the thirty S I mean, I did have thirty-nine steps on my honorable mentions and I didn't put it on the list just because like has a lot of similarities with north by northwest and at the end of the day north northwest is is the same movie on a much. Grander scale with cary grant but. thirty-nine steps like still plays that movie was made in Nineteen thirty five that is wild like if I re watched last week and it could be made now just in terms of how. Like the cleverness of the script and the movement and the and how keeps going just like a delight. I think that's true of so many of the movies we've named they they they play to this day. There are so few films that hold up eighty, seventy, six years later, Wesley, Chris Amanda Thank you so much for this marathon of is orgy of cock thoughts I appreciate it. Thanks John Thanks for having us.

Alfred Hitchcock Amanda Chris Wesley Morris Janet Lee Grace Kelly Jimmy Stewart Ingrid Bergman Kelly director Vertigo Leslie Nielsen Rebecca Robin Wood Marnie. Christopher Nolan Marion Crane Goch Arbogast Anthony Perkins
Psycho (1960) Ep. 29

Classic Movie Musts

31:14 min | 3 years ago

Psycho (1960) Ep. 29

"I'm max Baril. And this is classic movie musts where every week we break down a classic movie while looking to provide artistic insight and historical context at the very least. We'll talk about what makes these movies classics. Classic movie must releases every Friday ready to complimentary weekend move, Ewing plans. Classic movie must is supported by listeners. Like you. If you wanna help support the show, I thank you so much and second head on over to patriotdepot dot com slash classic movie. Musts every patriot subscriber earns cool perks and ways to engage with the show, including the opportunity to vote every month on a movie they'd like to hear discussed on the show. All it takes is one dollar per month. A huge thank you to our current patriot subscribers you make the show possible. You can read all about our support tears and the rewards over at patriotair dot. Com slash classic movie. Musts? Thank you for joining me this week as we close out offered Hitchcock month with the iconic thriller psycho in this episode will examine how Hitchcock balanced surprise suspense, and psychological identification to such a stoning affect in our future presentation will hear about the lengths that Hitchcock went to in order to protect psychos shocking twist in our buzz from the back lot segments. But first, let's get into this week's opening credits. Our film this week is psycho psycho directed by Alfred Hitchcock, and it was released in nineteen sixty psycho star Janet lay an Anthony Perkins. Psycho is available for streaming rental on itunes, Amazon YouTube and Google play during a lunchtime. Tryst in Phoenix. Arizona hotel real estate secretary. Marion crane played by Janet lay and her boyfriend Sam Loomis played by John Gavin discuss how they cannot afford to get married because of SAM's debts after lunch Mary Ann returns to work where a client leaves a forty thousand dollar cash payment on a property Marion's boss asks her to deposit, the money in the Bank and allows her to leave work early after she complains of a headache once home she decides to steal the money and drive to fair Vail, California where Sam lives during a heavy rainstorm Marian stops. For the night at the Bates, motel the proprietor. Norman Bates played by Anthony. Perkins invites her to share a light dinner after she checks in. She accepts his invitation. But over here's an argument between Norman and his mother about bringing women into their gothic house, which sits perched above the motel. Instead they eat in the motel parlor where he tells her about his life with his mother who is mentally ill and forbids him from having its own independent life moved by Norman story Marian decides to drive back to Phoenix in the morning and return the stolen money, which she hides a folded newspaper on the nightstand. As she showers, a shadowy figure enters the bathroom and stabs her to death with a shifts knife after seeing blood Norman panics and runs to Marion's room where he discovers her body, he cleans up the crime scene, putting Marion's corpse and her possessions, including the stolen money into the trunk of her. Car and sinking it in the swamps near the motel a week later myriad sister. Lila arrives fair veil and confronts Sam about Marion's whereabouts. Private investigator, Milton Arbogast approaches them and confirms that Marian is wanted for stealing the forty thousand dollars about investigating local motels. He comes across the Bates motel and Normans evasive. An inconsistent answers aroused his suspicion after hearing that Marion met Norman's mother he asked to speak with her. But Norman refuses to answer Arbogast updates Sam Lila about his search for Marion and promises to phone again soon, he goes to the Bates home in search of Norman's mother. But as he reaches the top of the stairs. He is murdered when Lila and Sam do not hear from Arbor gassed Sam visits the motel. He sees a figure in the house whom he assumes is MRs. Weights, but she ignores his knocking, Lila and Sam go to the local deputy sheriff who informs them that. Mrs Bates died in a murder suicide ten years ago. The sheriff concludes that Arbogast lied to salmon, Lila, so he could pursue Marian and the money convinced that some ill has befallen Arbogast, Lila and Sam make their way to the motel. Norman carries his mother from her room in hides her in the fruit-seller against her will at the motel Sam distracts Norman by engaging in a conversation. While Lila cases, the property and sneaks inside the house after Sam grills him. Norman becomes agitated knock Sam out and rushes to the house. Lila hides in the cellar where she finds MRs Bates in a chair. Lila turns around and discovers she is a mummified corpse lie the screams as Norman runs into the cellar holding a knife and wearing his mother's clothes. And a wig before Norman can attack. Lila Sam having regained his consciousness subdues him at the courthouse. A psychiatrist explains that Norman murdered MRs Bates and her lover ten years ago out of jealousy. Unable to bear the guilt. He exumed her corpse and began to treat it as if she were still alive. He recreated his mother in his own mind as an alternate personality dressing in her clothes and talking to himself in her voice. This mother personality is jealous and possessive. Whenever Norman feels attracted to a woman. Mother kills her as mother Norman killed two young girls before stabbing Mary Ann Arbor gas to death. The psychiatrist says the mother personality has taken permanent, hold of Norman's mind. While Norman sits in a holding cell mother's voice acknowledges that the only way to protect herself is to convince the police that Norman is the murderer the budget. For psycho was just over eight hundred thousand dollars and it brought in fifty million at the box office adjusted for inflation. That's a budget of six point eight million and a box office hall of just about four hundred twenty five million dollars. Now, I could really go for shower because it's time for our feature presentation. Psycho is the masterpiece that culminated the period in which Hitchcock and his audience or in closest touch and announced it's necessary ending its astounding success capped the decade in which Hitchcock was a household. Name. Psycho represents the poetic undoing of the themes and structures that had come to define Hitchcock's films. And thus is an ideal capstone to his filmography despite him going on to make more films, Hitchcock, still masterfully build suspense. But he does so well extinguishing the romantic flame that typically acts as the guiding light of his films, and while trust is still central to his work in psycho, Hitchcock causes the audience to lose trust in him and themselves from the thirty nine steps and notorious to rear window. And now psycho Hitchcock has drifted away from endowing the audience with the crucial elements. Truth. Be it hanney's innocence and leash in Devlin's love, and he's increasingly positioned himself as the suppressor of truth, forcing the audience to seek it out straightforwardly in window. And now deceptively in psycho. As psycho opens we see the real city of Phoenix spread out below the camera. And for all we know it really was Friday December eleventh at two forty three PM when these shots were taken the precise specification of date and time reinforces the suggestion that what we are about to view is no ordinary fiction. Psychos fiction is that the world is real psycho begins with the normal and draws a steadily deeper and deeper into the abnormals. It opens by making us aware of time and ends with the situation in which time has ceased to exist. It is crucial to psycho that we feel abandoned in its world. A world in which romance. Indeed. Even the dream of romantic fulfilment has all but died Hitchcock relies on audience expectations surrounding his own films to create that sense of abandonment as we've seen in Hitchcock's other films. The macguffin is the plot pretext that motivates the characters and ignites their romance. And the romance ends up being the central concern of the film in psycho. The romance is the macguffin Marian steals forty thousand dollars for the sake of the romance. But in the end, both the romance and the money are irrelevant when it comes to probing at the truth of Norman Bates. It is often said that Marion's death halfway through the film deprive psycho of it's anchor. We would feel cast adrift if Richard Hannie failed to come back to life after being shot halfway through the thirty nine steps. Or if at least you Hooverman succumb to the poison in notorious, but when Marion's. Life is unexpectedly. Cut short. We have long since felt anchor 'less in psychos world Marian and Sam are purposefully never imbued with the romantic connection that draws in the audience without a romantic anchor. The audience is intentionally set adrift into dreaded waters. I want to export several key moments of the film, namely the moments surrounding the shower sequence and the film's final sequence from two angles. I it's important today. Sect how Hitchcock uses suspense to build the tension and power of these iconic scenes, then we'll return to these scenes to examine their power on a psychological level through Hitchcock's narrative structure and use of identification techniques in psycho. There's a running concern for the truth that physical vision is always only partial and that our perceptions tend to play us false. And it is our perceptions whether true or false that are key to developing overlapping forms of suspense in psycho. In fact, in Hitchcock's definition of suspense suspense is defined in contrast to surprise as we have seen in our last three episodes on Hitchcock classical suspense involves giving the audience information about the possible outcomes of a given situation or story surprise, however depends upon the withholding of information typically, Hitchcock restricts knowledge by aligning the audience with the limited viewpoint of a character much. Like we saw in rear window nonetheless, it is possible for the suppression of narrative knowledge to be cute independently of character in an extraordinary shot. Just prior to the murder of Marian in the shower, Hitchcock places, the camera behind the curtain in such a way that we see a dark figure looming whom we think is normal. Mother. The camera does not at this point, take Marion's perceptual point of view. And we are not cued to think that this is what she sees since. She is busy cleansing herself in the shower. Our perception of this figure gives us knowledge that is superior to the character. And thus we worry on her behalf. But it does. So only to alert us to a mystery. This mystery is sustained by the bird's eye view position taken by Hitchcock's camera. When Arbogast is attacked. We assume by mother on the staircase in a manner that conceals from the audience, the real identity of Arbogast assailant. However here we see different forms of suspense overlap. According to the aspect of the narrative information that is known or withheld, for example, as Lila crane approaches. The psycho house we believe that someone in the house is about to swoop down and murder her in the same. Way that Arbogast was murdered yet. We have been systematically excluded from the site of mother in the film, and the house exudes an aura of mystery, which is only compounded by the information imparted by sheriff chambers that MRs Bates has been dead for ten years, Hitchcock shoots Lila's approach in a manner. That combines a forward tracking point of view shot, and they backward tracking reaction shot that creates a sense of shared suspenseful mystery. This is a signature combination the provides a concrete enactment or embodiment for the spectator of the sense of at once investigating but also being drawn into what is being seen at the same time knowing that whoever occupies the house is a vicious murderer. We also fear vicariously on Lila's behalf yet. Another example of Hitchcock's classical vicarious suspense, however. Suspenseful mystery has a different relationship to surprise for obviously both suspenseful mystery and surprise involves the suppression of narrative information suspenseful mystery differs from a situation of pure surprise, though, such as the murder of Marian in the shower only by queuing us to the fact that something is being suppressed mystery therefore prepares us to intimidate a surprising revelation typically while suppressing knowledge of narrative events, Hitchcock will cue us to the probability of one conclusion only to surprise us at the end with something that is totally contrary to our expectations. Thus in the conclusion of psycho. We are prepared to encounter the murderous mother whose identity has been suppressed only discover Norman Bates. It's a twist that is masterfully disguised suspense gives way to surprise in the effect is. Devastating. Now that we've examined how the suspense and surprise function in psycho. Let's explore the psychological aspects of identification, which is the truly haunting aspect of psycho. Psycho shower murder scene has passed into the consciousness of the world and uninitiated viewer. One. Who does not already know Norman story or Marion's fate can scarcely be found. It is difficult for us to remember or even to imagine. How Norman Bates must have originally appeared to psychos audience in nineteen sixty one of the functions of the counters with the police trooper and the used car salesman is to invite the expectation that this motel keeper will only be a minor character. One more shrewdly drawn character encountered by Marian punctuating her journey only to pass out of the film like the milkman. And of course, it salesman in the thirty nine steps. But the groundwork has also been care. Really laid for another expectation perhaps Norman Bates will instead play a role like that play by Pamela, the love interest in the thirty nine steps or that of Margaret the farmer's wife. Also from the thirty nine steps Marian. Stop at the Bates motel in handy. Stop at the farmer's cottage appear analogous Marian told Sam that she is on the lookout for somebody available. Perhaps Bates will be the man destined to provide her with an edifying perspective on Sam, what is clear is that the uninitiated viewer is unlikely to suspect the role Norman Bates will actually play. How could it be known that his mystery is to determine the film when he makes his entrance? There are immediate signs of his mystery. The confrontation of Marian and Norman Bates is in some ways, the core of the film. The parallel made between them provides the continuity that underlines the brutal disruption when Marian. Murdered. It is part of the essence of the film to make us feel the continuity between the normal and the AB normal between the compulsive behavior of Marian and psychotic behavior of Norman in the parlor behind his office surrounded by Norman, stuffed birds and paintings of classical rapes they talk about traps Marian is brought face to face with the logical extension of her present condition. Norman tells her that we're all in our own private trap. We scratch and claw. But only at the air only at each other. And for all of it. We never budge an inch. He's defining the psychotic state the condition of permanent anguish, whence development becomes impossible, a psychological hell the parallel between the two is clinched. When Norman says to her we all go a little mad. Sometimes haven't you? It is her perception of Norman's condition that gives Marian her chance at Selva. Asian which she takes she decides to return the money the next morning the decision. This time is clearly made she has regained her freedom of will her power of rationality. The scene prepares us for the transfer of our interest from Marian to Norman we see Marian under the shower and her movements have an almost ritualistic quality her face expresses the relief of washing away her guilt. It is not merely. It's incomparable physical impact that makes the shower murder. Probably the most horrific incident in any fiction film, the meaninglessness of it completely undermines our recently restored sense of security, the murder is as irrational, and as useless as the theft of the money. It also constitutes an alienating effect soc entering that we scarcely recover from it from the beginning of the film up until this moment. Hitchcock insures that we identify completely with Marian never has identification been broken off, so brutally at the time. So engrossed are we in Marian so secure in her potential salvation that we can hardly believe it is happening when it is over and she is dead. We are left shocked with nothing to cling to apparent center of the film entirely. Dissolved needing a new center, we attach ourselves to Norman Bates, the only other character available. We have been carefully prepared for this shift in sympathies for one thing. Norman is an intensely sympathetic character sensitive vulnerable trapped by his devotion to his mother that he is very unbalanced merely serves to evoke are protective instincts. He is also so helpless beyond this the whole film hitherto has led us to Norman by making us identify with. Condition in many ways analogous to his after all Marian. Also carried out irrational acts for the sake of devotion. We even heard the voices in her head the transition from Marion to Norman is easy after the murder, Hitchcock uses all the resources of identification technique to make us become Norman, he is a likable human being in an intolerable situation desperately in need of help and protection. If by the very nature of his case. He's unable to obtain it as he cleans up after his mother's hideous crime. The camera becomes subjective. They are our hands mopping away the blood at the same time. We cannot forget Marian the intense anguish arouse in the spectator arises from conflict of response. Our attention is directed repeatedly to the last lingering trace of Marian which Norman almost overlooks the. The money. The money becomes now. Emir squalid bundle of paper in a Ron ick. Reminder of her life, her desires and her relationship with Sam psycho is Hitchcock's ultimate achievement in the technique of audience participation in a sense. The spectator becomes the chief protagonist uniting and him or herself all the characters the remainder of the film is an inquiry into the sources of the psychological health state represented by Norman a descent into the chaos world the other characters Sam, Lila, Ann Arbor. Gassed are only projections of the spectators into the film there are instruments for the search, and they're all the easier to identify with because they have no detailed individual existence each stage in the descent adds to the tension within us. We want to know, and we dread knowing we want the investigators to find the truth. And put an end to the horrors yet, we have involved ourselves in those horrors through our identification with Norman, it's no surprise that. When we finally get to explore the main house that Hitchcock's production design paints, a rich, psychological portrait Lila's exploration of the house is really an exploration of Norman's psychotic personality the whole sequence with its discoveries in bedroom. Attic and cellar has clear. Freudian overtones, the Victorian decor crammed with invention. Intensifies the atmosphere of sexual repression. The statue of a black cupid in the hall. The painting of an idealized made into sporting herself. At the top of the stairs. A nude goddess statue in the bedroom are juxtaposed with the bed permanently in dented with the shape of MRs Bates's body. The macabre cast of crossed hands on her dressing table. The stifling atmosphere. Stagnation. You can almost smell it. The attic no-man's bedroom represents the sick man's conscious. Mental development, a strange confusion of the childish and the adult the seller gives us the hidden springs of Norman's behavior there. Lila, fines misses Bates, our discovery of the truth. Of course, partly changes are attitude towards what has gone before. It adds for example, many complexities to our understanding of the shower murder, which we now see primarily as a sexual act of violence substitute for the rape that Norman dare not carry out. And also as the trapped mother's desire to destroy a woman who is achieved the freedom Norman and his mother will never achieve what it cannot do is remove our sense of complicity. We have been led to accept Norman Bates as a potential extension of ourselves that we all carry within us every human potentialities. For good or evil. So that we all share a common guilt. This is the truth that Hitchcock forces us all to experience. It is this that makes a satisfactory analysis of psycho on paper or in podcast, so difficult. It also ensures that no analysis, however detailed can ever become a substitute for the film itself. Since the direct emotional experience survives any amount of explanatory. Justification in the end psycho announced that the cycle of Hitchcock films had run its course Hitchcock accomplished his recreation of himself as the author of his films. If he had never made another film after psycho. His work would not have been unfinished the films that Hitchcock did go on to make the birds Marnie torn curtain Topaz frenzy and family plot. Inouye disavow psychos finality psychos achievement is to bring him. Cox filmmaking project to a successful conclusion yet if psycho confirms the immortality of Hitchcock's authorship, it also acknowledges Hitchcock's own mortality as no earlier Hitchcock film had ever done. It is as if psycho were the first film, he made in clear view of his own death as a filmmaker. And in psycho, Hitchcock calls upon us to acknowledge that what brings his films to life is. In fact, his life's blood on every frame psycho was nominated for four Academy Awards. Janet lay was nominee for best. Supporting actress John L Russell was nominated for best cinematography in the black and white category. The film was nominated for best art decoration and Alfred Hitchcock was nominated for best director. Now, it's time for our bus when the back lot segment and this week we have Hitchcock going to great lengths to conceal psychos dark secret. Alfred Hitchcock bought the rights to the novel anonymously from Robert Bloch for only nine thousand dollars. He then bought as many copies of the novel as he could to try and keep the ending secret. When the cast and crew began work on the first day they had to raise their right hands and promise not today voltage, one word of the story, Hitchcock also withheld the ending part of the script from his cast until he needed to shoot it. Every theater that showed the film had a cardboard cutout installed in the lobby of Alfred Hitchcock pointing to his wristwatch with a note from the director saying the manager of this theater has been instructed at the risk of his life. Not to admit to the theatre any persons after the picture starts any spurious attempts. To enter by side, doors, fire escapes or ventilating shafts will be met by force the entire objective of this extraordinary policy. Of course is to help you enjoy psycho. Moore signed by Alfred Hitchcock, one of the reasons Hitchcock shot the movie in black and white was he thought it would be too gory in color. But the main reason was that he wanted to make the film as inexpensively as possible for potentially under one million dollars, which he ultimately was able to do Hitchcock was so pleased with the score written by Bernard Hermann that he doubled the composer salary to thirty four thousand five hundred and one dollars Hitchcock later said thirty three percent of the effect of psycho was due to the music paramount gave Hitchcock a very small budget to work with because of their distaste with the source material Hitchcock wanted to make this movie so much that he deferred his standard two hundred and fifty thousand. Dollars salary in lieu of sixty percent of the film's gross paramount believing that the film would do poorly at the box office. Agreed his personal earnings from the film exceeded fifteen million dollars adjusted for inflation that amount would be just nearly a hundred and thirty million dollars today for the shot looking up into the water stream of the shower. Head Hitchcock had six foot diameter shower head made up and blocked the central jets. So that the water sprayed in a cone past the camera lens without any water, spraying directly, add it. And speaking of that bathroom scene. Psycho is the first American film ever to show a toilet flushing on screen Hitchcock himself. Hated the infamous psychiatrist explanation seen done by Dr Fred Richmond. Played by Simon Oakland at the end of the movie, he felt the scene was boring, and that the movie came to a grinding halt at this point the scene has also been ripped to shreds by critics over the years as the worst thing. In the movie and one of Hitchcock's were scenes, ever, both Hitchcock and viewers felt that the scene was unnecessary overly obvious and to talk slowing down the action. It's spent the rest of the movie, but there was strong pressure from the studios and powers that be that funded and distributed the movie to relieve the pressure from earlier scenes and also to explain the action to less inciteful audience members who might be confused by the big reveal at the end. So the scene was kept in the movies famous line. A boy's best friend is his mother was voted as the number fifty six movie quote of all time by AFI and the strings only music by Bernard Hermann is ranked as number four on AFI's one hundred years of film scores psycho is currently number fourteen on one hundred greatest movies of all time. That concludes our episode on psycho and our month of Alfred Hitchcock movies. I would love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must and Hitchcock's work in general feel free to tweet at movie musts pod or E mail. Classic movie. Musts at gmaiLcom, you can listen to all our episodes on our website segment. We must dot com. Support the show and receive cool perks like being able to vote on upcoming movies at patriot dot com slash classic movie. Musts next week, we're discussing the nineteen fifty four version of a star is born starring Judy Garland, and James Mason. A star is born is available for streaming rental. I tunes Amazon YouTube and Google play for all the usual prices. Remember episodes release every Friday on all podcast services. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode keep up with your classics.

Norman Bates Alfred Hitchcock Marian Lila Sam Sam Lila murder Marion Bates motel Phoenix Bates Sam psycho Milton Arbogast patriotair dot Arizona Lila crane Google Janet max Baril Ewing
None of Your Business

Sincerely, X

44:09 min | 9 months ago

None of Your Business

"Can you tell me what you look like. Oh man so. I am of average height for a man. I'm on a thinner side so when you pass me on the street the only thing you see is a skinny white dude. I mean you. You wouldn't even notice me. I am so unnoticeable. But what i think about when i lock by people on the street even now do they know can they caught me. Clocking is a term used in the transgender community. That means identifying someone as trans. And it's a word. Today's guest things about a lot. My name is sarah k and this is sincerely axe from ted and each episode of the show. We hear a story from an anonymous person who helps us. Give light to ideas. We might never hear otherwise. Today are anonymous. Guest is a man from the american south and met him. That's what your impression would be too so the question like how many other men have i run into pacify whatever and they were but i don't know and that's one of the crazy things about being sells you get to live privately and anonymously but it can be lonely. That's why i think the bathroom bills are so funny. They're funny but what's funny about. It is that there's people that present. Those bills assumed that you can cook trans person and you can't. We can't clock each other sometimes. And that is the beauty of medical transition for some people. Say get to do that for trans people who can move through the world without being seen as trans the choice to be public or private about their gender history is complicated more complicated than you might think. Our guest feels pressure to be quote out from all sides. Some people want him to be out because they think that is necessary to advance the rights of trans people while others want him to be out because they feel entitled to know the history and the details of his body. It's crazy but it's true that there is a large part of the population that thinks trans people. Living their private authentic lies is deceitful or in authentic to the public I would argue that. I don't know a whole lot about the vast majority of people i meet. And it's not my business I think sis gendered people thinking that it is their business to know about any trans persons body their history Their journey their trials their difficulties is incredibly invasive. And out of line most people would never expect that level of intimacy with someone they don't know. Our guest believes that this is an issue of privacy. Something people simply don't deserve to know that is the idea will explore today. We'll learn why he has chosen to keep his gender history private and why so many people have feelings and opinions about a. That is so personal but before we get started. I want to address something. you use. The word stealth. And i'd love to talk to about that word. What does that word mean. Or how do you define that. And how do you feel about it so it just means that you're living without people knowing your trans okay There are there are men and women out there that literally only their partner in their doctrine is for me. I mean obviously my doctors say they know Obviously my girlfriend nose and then of course you know family any any new person. i mean. i don't tell them At my job knows New friends i meet. No don't know when i was dating stealth. I went on dates with several women. That don't know never will know. Don't need to know because we never were sexually interactive. So you know why. Why am i gonna tell you about my transact sewell status When we're having a few beers. And i never see you again. Okay you know what i'm saying So that that's what stealth means to me but our guest acknowledges not everyone is comfortable with the implications and connotations of this term stealth as a word maybe problematic because of its perhaps deceitful connotations. I kind of like it just because if you're being stealthy about something i don't know this is gonna sound released cheesy but it's kind of like being a spy or like a private. I you know if anybody has a better term. I mean i'm all ears. I just know that it's a term that's been used in the community for a long time using the right terms as complicated so before we move on a quick note on language throughout this episode. You're going to hear people use terms to describe different aspects of their gender sexuality and identity the terms they use are based on personal preference but in general semantics. Change depending on someone's age orientation or community for example like butch or queer. Were once mainly used as derogatory slurs but have now been reclaimed by some members of the lgbtq plus community however hearing them said by someone outside. The community is still offensive to some our guest. Personally identifies using the term transsexual but that term may sound outdated too many. Currently the more widely accepted terms are trans or transgender. If you're unsure about how to refer to someone who is transgender or what languages harmful or helpful to the lgbtq plus community there are resources online. That can guide you. Glad for instance is a good starting place if this sounds like a lot of disclaimer. It's because i have seen the power of language to be inclusive or be weaponized. And i want it to be clear that someone's ability to use the language. They wish to refer to themselves. Should not be confused for a blanket permission to everyone else. Okay back to our guest as a kid. you know. there wasn't a language. At least not where i am not at that time not not openly and since i knew i was attracted to women i was like well. Well that just must be you know because there's a bunch of different ways to identify as lesbian. I was what one would call very butch. How open were you with the people in your life at that time in your life. I'm not somebody that's not open. Which is why. Maybe the way identify now is kind of strange but no i was. I was super out the only out kid in my high school until i was a senior in high school. Not to mention like when you're when you're a female bodied person living that butch. There's not really no being out because because you're kind of marked right. Our guest four pride flags on his backpack. When he was in high school and in college he got deeply involved with his school's. Gay straight alliance. Then he discovered track. You know putting on facial hair Binding and moving in. That was incredible. And that's also the reason. I stopped because drag as a performance of gender but i didn't think it was appropriate for me to continue to perform because i wasn't performing anymore. Does that make sense. Because i i was like oh no like i'm a man and there's no going back now. I can't unknow the things that i now know. I told my mother nine days before. I started hormone replacement therapy because i ran out of time and i had a our okay. I mean that's how terrified i was and it's just your you. You're signing up for hormones for the rest of your life least doing it. You're signing up for surgeries. You're signing up for record changes you're signing up for. Is anybody ever gonna love me. Am i going to have children. you know. Am i gonna die alone in a shack at the edge of the woods. Because i'm trans. I don't know and there's all sorts of different steps in 'cause like coming out man like coming out is like that's just the beginning. You're like oh man like that's so hard like and and you're thinking man came out. I'm so glad you know that's over. With and then the avalanche of other decisions comes crashing down right like how. Am i going to find a doctor. How am i going to find a house. Top surgery not top surgery. How do i find the surgeon. Were my job. No what am i going to have insurance. I mean it's just it is overwhelming but when you when you are something and you can't not be who you are. It gets a place where you don't have a choice. Was there a single moment. When that came into focus for you. I came into contact with a gentleman and his wife and he passed completely. You cannot tell. And i was able to see that like like i don't have to be out forever. I don't have to live on the margins forever. I don't have to have all these confusions about me forever. And that was very appealing to me. Living as a person who you know people couldn't figure out. I was in an interview once where the guy walked in and said oh i didn't know we were interviewing a woman lie. You know what i'm saying like that's not that's how fun okay It's not fun having rocks you when you're walking down the street. It's not south being tripped. None of that stuff is fun So you know. I knew i didn't want people to know And i knew. I didn't want it to affect my relationships at work. Whether or not i got hired and i'll tell you like it was definitely a relief to move after a few years in because then i really could just interact and be me without all these people hanging around that me from before i would love. It could tell me the thought process behind not wanting people to know you are trans so par of being early on. It is incredible. How many people and this is not just like hetero normative straight people feel like they have a right to ask you. What's going on miss your body and your relationships. The i got assets questions you know. There's there's always the popular. Have you had the surgery. I mean who wants to have conversations about their genitals. Let's just be really frank okay. And it's not anybody's business. You know we live in the internet. Age and i can assure you anything that most people want to know about. Transpeople is literally just a google search away. I know there's some trans people out there that love playing role of educator and that's fine i certainly did it with my intimate friend group there for a while but eventually you just kinda wanna move on you know on once you know something. You can't unknow it so like i don't feel like today in our society like if you if you pass me on the street and you didn't know me and i told you right then and there. There's no way for you to know that. I'm trans for many trans people. Being seen or identified as trans is affirming and positive but our guest doesn't feel that way he believes people won't treat him the way he wants to be treated if they know that he's trans a stone your fault. You just can't unknow it so you ever really gonna see me as a man again or are going to see me as a trans man. I'm curious you know. We talked earlier about how public and out you were as a lesbian. And how active you were in the gsa at school and that seems like a very different operating system. Then when you're working with now it is. But i mean i don't know i'll tell you this like. I was an activist for many years. And i feel very passionately strongly in good about the time that i spent advocating for the mvp antique community. What's funny about that is is after about a year and a half i so break from activism. I found a different way at least in my opinion to be an activist for my community. And i do itself. I do it now I have started to am a part of three secret. Facebook groups there unsearchable. You cannot find them. the only way you can even be in to be invited by member all told like i've probably connected to a hundred and seventy men across multiple states and it's awesome. It's awesome to be connected so not nearly not not political at all At all but definitely coming from the place like hey. This is an isolating existence. This is hard you know we are here is if you need something if you need to know about a surgeon if you need to know about a doctor if you need like if we don't know you know we'll try to find somebody that knows like that's the beauty of having that many men that are connected across that many Cities and states is that they're able to pull from things that they know that i don't know you know like so there's a whole grassroots community to help each other with that so they are not alone like the internet can only go so far and making you feel connected. Have you got a chance to meet these folks outside the internet. Oh yeah there's a part of the community here still very strong and what we what. I call like big brother little brother culture so like we used to do a yearly camping trip together. There's a group of guys where i am now like b. Hang out that fosters that big brother little brother cultures so like when you're new instead of just having the internet that's relationship serves as a support of like what happened when you add top surgery or like. Oh my god like how did you meet your wife. How'd you meet your boyfriend like how'd you meet your spouse. You know an an having. That relationship helps. I'm curious what kinds of reactions publicly trans folks tend to have when they find out you're not public are open about being trans. I'll be honest with you most most of the time. It hasn't been like that negative. But i do think sometimes It has meant a loss of community. there was a gentleman years ago. Who kept inviting me publicly to public like gay things and transit things on facebook and i privately several times. Asked him to quit doing that because there was. You know. I live south. And i'd really like the private thing you know and i'll i make a decision if i want to or not. You know well. That gentleman ended up the leading me and ceasing contact with me because i guess he Disagreed with my decision to be stealth. I recently ran across the trans woman. Who kind of outed me weirdly. How did she out you. She called me. Trans thread was not cool. And let me be clear. Like she does a lot of really great work for the community. And i respect her. I respect any trans person that is out in the does for the community because we need those people to okay like i am not downplaying. What those people sacrifice you know not downplaying their decisions be open. That is not. I'm saying what i'm saying. Is you asked like how that's received some times in the community and unfortunately it can be received negatively to me. It feels like saying. Oh well you're just not good for the community then. I guess because you're not parading around and that's not the case at all. There's like i told you like. I found a way to be an activist for my own community. And i feel really strongly about that and i'm i think is just as important as going to capitol hill and you know protesting. I think both of those things are important. Think there's a space for both of those things and both of those people. I want to be careful about the way that i phrase this but There are trans folks who when they moved through the world are always identified as trans folks and by virtue of that they are confronted with the transphobia of the world. We live in and the stigma and the struggles and the oppression and the violence that comes along with all of that and because that is their lived experience they have to fight for trying to make this world less transphobic. And i wonder if the fact that you have the ability to opt out of that type of work in a public space Feels painful for someone passing privileges. A real thing. I early in my transition. I did not understand the politics of passing privileged. Nor did i understand how powerful it was. It is a real thing. And i recognize completely that i mean i haven't passing privilege happens a lot more. It seems in the trans male community because testosterone is such an aggressive hormone I think a lot of people when they think of trans people they think of older trans woman but i think is the access of hormones for younger people as doctors and parents and communities become more aware of what being translated what it means to treat it. I think it will become easier for people to make decisions about whether they want to be out because they will be able to pass that being said we are where we are right now. being a butch lesbian or a gender non conforming person is not the same as being an identifiable trans woman period especially a trans woman of color but as best i can having lived gender. Non conforming existence for a little over a decade. Yeah it is painful. And there's a lot of anger and a lot of fight you know because it's it's hard it's really hard to me is still does not merit that. We just need to be like well. South being selfish horse something. That shouldn't be respected. And and i know that's like i know some people are going to hear some of this and they're going to be like man. What a jerk you know. What a scenario with his passing privilege and and. I can't help that. You know all i can do is try to conduct myself in ways to protect people that i can identify the need that protection and try to vote in a way that protects those people that need protection you know. Do you feel like there's a burden on you as a trans man to be expected to have certain obligations to the trans community. And i think that's why. I think that's why people get angry sometimes or hurt about stuff people i mean. Why do you think. I do what i do part as selfish. Sure as i want my own community but part of that comes from a sense of obligation that if i'm not going to be a trans flag wearing out trans man that this is a way to fulfil the burden of mile but gatien and what about those stealth men. What about them. What about their community. You know even if that means some of us. aren't you know. Go to a pride parade or attending activists events. That doesn't mean that we're not doing our own work that we're not fulfilling our sense of obliga- shen and that we're not doing our own political activism that we feel comfortable with like you're doing amazing work in a quiet way but also opting out of these kind of big visible frontlines in some ways and i would imagine that that must be where a lot of that friction comes from. I mean that's why there is a divide in the community. You know. And i get it. I do but just like. I don't think anybody should be forced to be stealth. Nobody should be forced to be out either in an ideal world. Would you want to be able to be fully open about your past and not have that influence how people treat you are perceive you or do you prefer to be read and treated as assess man. That is a really complicated question. Because one of my dear friends used to live stealth and as he has gone through his journey. He has become more open and as he went on he just decided. You know whatever like i am who i am like. I'm not gonna paraded around but if people find out. I'm just not going to care anymore. Just not gonna care and there is a part of that this appealing because some of my experience like or people who don't know will sometimes be like. Yeah you're weird little dude. She like there. Are things about me having been socialized as a female which i cannot undo and my experience with twelve years is the way i did the experience of transition. That is my lived experience. And that's one of the crazy things about being steles like you get to live privately and anonymously but it can be lonely. What would you say. Then how would you phrase the main reason you choose to live the way you live so that i can. I don't want an asterisk on my identity. I don't want an astrakan my life. I just want to be acts. And that's it because x. Has a lot of other things going for him. That are super interesting and super cool besides being trans coming up we try to pick apart. Why so many people have feelings about this choice. I'm sarah kane and this is sincerely Arbogast is a man who chooses not to share his gender history with most because he believes he has a right to keep this part of himself private. But as we've heard that idea is controversial and his challengers broadly organized into two groups. The first are the people who feel entitled to know the details of his gender and the history of his body. The second are people who want him to be out because they believe it has bigger implications than just his life and that his being out would help further the rights of trans people. I want to understand what is at the heart of those. Two controversies the histories. The expectations and the complications that show up in the very different reactions to this one man's choice with our guests permission. I shared his story with someone who could provide me with some of that context. Shall we okay cool. So let's start out with just the simplest thing. Can you tell me who you are. And what you do. I'm nathaniel frank and i'm an lgbt author who has written widely about lgbt military service and marriage in particular. When i should add that. I am the director of The what we know. Project which is Research initiative at cornell university that summarizes research on lgbt lives awesome. So this gal. I want to start by trying to understand that first group who feel that they deserve to know about our guests gender and his body. Where does that feeling come from well. I think we've learned a lot in recent years from research about human beings instincts and that we are among other things group ish. There's a wish to find structure and including social structure in people's communities and in their world. So you may have a natural curiosity about where people land where you belong. Where and whether others belong. But it's absolutely the case that those who have power and dominance often deploy it knowingly or not to maintain power to try to control other people or to ward off what they see us threats to their own identity would so i think the the curiosity is natural but it can certainly quickly come to be used by those in power for unjust reasons. So it's not so much about people deserve to know but people want to know but it doesn't mean people have a right to know everything about you now. Let's move to the second group which gets a lot more complicated. Why would folks within the lgbtq community have a problem with his choice. What's the history there. Let's maybe start with the importance of visibility for the gay lesbian and bisexual communities well earlier in the twentieth century. If you think of the consequences of coming out that you could lose your job and career reputation your family and your life. It was certainly unsafe physically to be known as gay. And so concealing that aspect of who you are was imperative for survival for so many people but around mid century and a various points in the twentieth century as the gay community. Found one another in communities particularly in big cities particularly around war mobilization because so many men were thrown together and we're traveling the world and then we're released for military service in port cities like new york in san francisco where they're becoming increasingly visible to one another. As gay people found their voice they found that they not an isolated band of misfits. You know sick and criminal and and disgusting people. They were a community or are a minority with rights and dignity and and so the the sort of moral imperative to come out which is something that gay and lesbian activists began to urge and famously harvey milk in the nineteen seventies san francisco openly the supervisor who was assassinated who said in several eloquent speeches You've got to come out. You know the only way that we're going to become known to people and gain tolerance and acceptance and rights is for us all to come out because the secret is what keeps us back And then during the aids crisis of the nineteen eighties in particular it became again a matter of survival for gay community to become visible and so coming out and becoming visible became the imperative for survival in almost the same way that concealing your identity had been the imperative for survival before and at the same time in more recent years. It was recognized that it's a privilege to be able to come out and that people who live in a certain geographic context or with a certain family or have a certain job where there's greater hostility toward being gay or transgender. Don't have the same Opportunities and privileges to come out without suffering great cost danger and so i think the elderly community while urging people to come out possible have at their best also recognized that this is something that is not equally available to all lgbt people and that we have to be very careful when we Form judgments or opinions about those who have chosen not to come out. So it's clear that there have been and are moments where familiarity and proximity were tied to gaining access to rights and resources for people in the gay lesbian and bisexual communities and visibility or coming out has been a huge part of that push. So does that extend to the trans community as well. Let me back up on a few things so all the way back in one sense so we were talking about this guests choice to remain private about his transgender identity. I would unpack that a little bit. Because it's not a one time choice that people make. I will remain in the closet or stealth or private getting the visibility of certain aspects of your identity is a process and it's a perpetual process and so lgbt people. We now realize often come out multiple times in a life sometimes multiple times in a day and that is because of assumptions that the dominant culture brings to questions of identity. So it's important to say that that that this guest has made is is not a one time hundred percent choice that i will not reveal this aspect of my identity. I'm wondering if someone who is transgender. Might feel that there's an obligation to more visible because it will create familiarity and proximity for trans people. In the way the visibility of gay people did in the past. I think there's an opportunity to move the needle anytime someone comes out and by the way this goes for being jewish and muslim and having various racial and ethnic identities as well when people know that someone is a member of a minority community that they may have thought they didn't like and they know you and they like you all right that that helps advance tolerance acceptance and ultimately policies and practices that expand rights and safety whether and when that becomes a moral obligation is hard to say and i think people need to be understanding about the different contexts in which different people may incur greater costs in coming out and i think part of the reaction that some transgender people may feel when they hear of this guests. Experience is similar to the experience. Some gay people felt when they're confronted with closeted gay people or jews or other immigrants who want to blend in or pass as part of the dominant culture. Which is you have an opportunity to make life easier. That's right. And maybe i took the opportunity and maybe i did so at some risk and cost to myself and look there. There is always going to be a wide range of different kinds of people so what we may be calling an opportunity to help advance the cause of other. Lgbt people is for some people not something that they have an interest in being part of and it doesn't seem fair that they should be expected to be an activist don't necessarily wanna add burdens of activism to people just because they were born. Lgbt but. i think i'm comfortable saying that when possible. It should be a goal for people who are members of a misunderstood marginalized minority to share aspects of their identity. Even if that may mean stepping outside your comfort zone to some extent. I think it's a valiant goal to to try and i would also add that anyone else May feel or take on the burden of saying something difficult and important to help a cause or to do right even if they're not a minority so people talked in the bullying world about not being a by standard. You know making sure that. If you see something crueler abusive you stand up and say something if you hear something racist or Harmful or inappropriate. Even if you're not a member of minority that could be a burden that you feel you oughta share in order to not let inappropriate words or actions go by i think guest mentions Some remorse about being able to enjoy passing there. I think he should give himself a break. I don't think people you know within reason should be expected to relinquish all of their privileges overnight. Especially if you have suffered from a lot of ngos and burdens as well. My main concern for this guest in his wish to be stealth israeli for him. There's a lot of research in the minority stress field. About what kind of energy. It takes to navigate a dual identity or to to keep a secret. It tends to be taxing for people and so for both his sake and for the cause of understanding and advancement of transgender equality. I i do think it. Is you know a goal to be able to share that aspect or at any in certain contexts while in other context as he says he shouldn't have to tell me if i'm hearing this correctly it certainly isn't that trans people should be expected or required to disclose their trans identity to anyone. Everyone the world but rather making sure that they they are in a space where they are safe and comfortable Is really valuable for them. And also can then have a ripple effect of positivity for other people. I think that's exactly right. My hope for him is that there is a point where he feels that he can present in most cases as a regular guy without sharing his history or his genitals or his insides But that certain in certain contexts he may be more content to share that he's transgender. And that this is an you know an unthreatening normal kind of thing. Because i don't want for his sake for it to become a secret that requires great energy to keep hearing. His story elicited great empathy when he talked about passing people either their other transgender people or they weren't and they wondered. Did you clock me. You know did you. Did you know that. I was transkei. You completely understand this idea of not wanting to be clocked on the other hand you feel bad for the energy it takes to wonder and you want for their sake for people to be able to say to themselves and others. This is who. I am. All of me and i was born this way and this is how identified and this is how i present and a story. Why did you want to talk with today. I don't think most people even know that this is the thing. And i think we exists when we tell our stories and it's very important to me that we exist while i cannot speak for other stealth men. I do feel like at least for some of the guys. I know that. I am giving voice to their experience. Is there anybody that you would want the opportunity to speak directly to and if so what would you want to say to them if you're stealth and you're hearing this you are not alone. And if you're trans and you're out and you're hearing this and you're not happy with me that's okay because we're all in this together anyways if you're a politician and you're hearing this and you're on one particular side of the aisle you can legislate all you want. You're never going to legislate me or anybody else out of existence. We will exist whether you like it or not and we're not going to give up and shame. Shame on you for trying to keep people from living. Their lives sincerely acts is produced by magnificent noise. For ted. our production staff includes kim nater fain peterse destory sibley eva walsh over nor was was and chloe shasha with the help of angela. Chang janet lee michelle quint jesse baker and colin house. Our fact checker is lorena of trujillo. This episode was mixed and sound designed by kristen. Muller especial thanks to mica eames and jillian brooks our executive producer. Is eric newsham. If you or someone you know has a story that you think should be shared anonymously with others. Please let us know at ted dot com slash sincerely acts. I'm sarah k and this is sincerely acts.

butch sarah k Gay straight alliance frank okay sewell gatien ted facebook nathaniel frank gsa sarah kane Arbogast shen google san francisco cornell university harvey milk aids new york
Cream Finance Suffers $30 Million Hack

Coronavirus

06:43 min | 3 weeks ago

Cream Finance Suffers $30 Million Hack

"Hello everyone and welcome to today in a theory. Eight daily briefing podcast on the latest any theory lending protocol cream finance suffers a flash loan attack arbitron. The optimistic roll. Ups layer to scaling solution has launched on may net larva labs the company behind crypto punks science and exclusive licensing deal and meta masks surpasses ten million monthly active users. All this and more from today into theorem starts right now. Defy lending protocol cream. Finance has been hacked. Roughly thirty million dollars worth of cryptos in a flash loan attack cream finance posted the announcement on twitter saying the hack occurred on tuesday august thirty first at noon. Ut seat the protocol was exploited for four hundred sixty. Two million amp tokens as well as two thousand eight. Hundred and four. Th tokens according to the company root cause of the incident was the lending of an tokens ample token contracts allowed for a re entrance attack the same type of exploit that was used in the two thousand sixteen dow hack. The project claims. They will replace these stolen tokens by committing to allocating twenty percent of all protocol fees towards the repayment until the debt is fully paid. Sadly this is not the first hack experienced by the project cream. Finance lost thirty seven million dollars in an attack earlier this year arbitron a layer to scaling solution by off chain labs has officially launched on main net. The application is now open for public use and is live on yuna swab the three sushi swap and balancer arbitron muses optimistic roll ups to process transactions and then settles them in batches on the main chain the application starting out with a set speed limit of eighty thousand arbogast per second which is roughly equivalent to the current capacity of may net ethereal. The speed limit will be increased over time. As the system stabilizes transactions arbitron are significantly cheaper than the theorem layer one but can still reach layer one fee levels if the network is congested and capacity is reached. Arbitron says that although it is live on main net the application is still in beta and recommends that fast bridging solutions limit liquidity and so full decentralization is achieved. The company claims they have the to and may indeed pas the network amid potential security incident. Like all optimistic roll. Ups withdraws and arbitron will take roughly seven days to be confirmed which the project says works in their advantage. In the event of a hack. The company has since announced a one million dollar bug bounty program managed by im- unify and the one hundred and twenty million dollars series b funding round that included panthera polly chain and mark. Cuban among others off chain labs has raised a total of one hundred twenty four million dollars across three funding rounds with the latest round of valuing the company at one point two billion dollars. Stephen goldfetter co founder of octane. Labs says they intend to use the funding to build out the team larval. Labs the company behind crypto punks has signed an exclusive deal with one of hollywood's top four talent agencies united talent agency or uta will represent crypto punks across film tv video games publishing and licensing me bids and auto cliff ix to other crypto. Art projects by large labs were also included in the deal. Uta has a dedicated team to represent the new form of ip talent. Agency launched a division dedicated to digital assets in march march one of the first opportunities for a crypto based ip to enter the mainstream entertainment space uta also announcing august it would represent social token platform. Rally larval labs launched crypto punks in two thousand seventeen which were originally given out for free. The company later launched auto cliff ix in two thousand nineteen and me bits earlier this year. The crypto punks collection is currently valued at more than three billion dollars loop project. Nf tease hit a new all-time floor. Price of six point seven eath. The texts only nfc shows a randomized set of adventure words. Any black candidates images and functionality are intentionally omitted from the nf t to enable holders to decide what to do with them. The loop project was created by dom hoffman and was publicly released via tweet on august. Twenty seven loop and teas were given out for free and could only be minted directly from the smart contract on ether scan. The idea behind is value creation through a bottom up approach leaving it up to the holders to decide what to build. Since the release of lou the community has created a i generated pixel art luke characters and rarity tools dom hoffman is more widely known for being the co founder of social media app vine is also the creator of other projects including map sugar the game and super drive and lastly meta mass now has more than ten million monthly active users. Making the world's largest non-custodial wallet the wallet provider has grown by nearly twenty. Fold over the past year with just over a half million active users. July twenty twenty two more than ten million today meta massacres launched in two thousand sixteen as a browser wallet for interacting with the ethiopian blockchain the launch of the mobile version in september of twenty twenty led to a rapid growth in new users from emerging markets amass later launched mobile token swaps in march of twenty twenty one today mid amass enables users to interact with nearly seventeen thousand unique web three domains and supports any theorem compatible network including polygon arbitron and optimism but a mass is hosting a celebratory party into central and on september. Second this has been a round up of today's top new stories from today any theory him. Please support this podcast. By subscribing on box follow us on twitter at ether. Fm that's e. t. h. e. r. dot fm or visit us on the web at ether dot fm. Thanks for listening. We'll see you tomorrow.

panthera polly chain dom hoffman Stephen goldfetter crypto punks united talent agency Arbitron twitter uta Uta uta hollywood nfc
Issa Rae | Impressions Nobody Asked For

Late Night with Seth Meyers Podcast

13:17 min | 1 year ago

Issa Rae | Impressions Nobody Asked For

"Reported from locations. That are not Thirty Rockefeller Plaza. These enjoyed this podcast edition of late night with Seth Meyers. On today's show seth chats with each array of the new movie the love birds but I late night staff share some impressions. No one asked for since most of us are still under quarantine and we're pretty bored and cooped up at home. I thought it might be fun to share some of my writers celebrity impressions heads up there a little obscure and I'd argue their impressions that no one would ever ask for but here. They are impressions. Nobody asked for a first up. I writer Mike's Collins doing cousin Greg from succession. He sorry about everyone but I just caught on fire. I if few minutes minister it's a problem or maybe this is a trick and really smart. I'll that is A. That is a great. Greg actually have a pretty good Kendall from succession. Here we go. I mean next week. Ginny Hegel Doing Buffalo Bill from silence of the lambs Groper per didn't ask for it. You didn't want it but you got it. Hey how about a little crash test. Dummies for the kids. Wong are walls Got Into on actual. Dan incurred in out of school the other was a singer. Sounded like that actually put out a couple of damn fine. Don't do I'm coming for an. Hey you guys Friday night lights. I think we can all agree fantastic show so many characters. You love scene impression of coach. Taylor Tammy Tim Riggins the one that's never been requested. Not Once Matt Saracen. I love my grandma. My Dad's in Iraq And I work at Alma freeze smash but my my true. Love's are win state and Julie After Quarantine Julie and I are going to go to movie theaters Aragon. It's about a boy. His Dragon and the evil King. Gal Rhetorics mean guess how about Susie from curb but he laugh. I'm talking to you. Did I hear someone say more silence of the lambs I didn't will too late graduated from? Uva doctor it is not a term school. How about grover followed by little elmo? This is your palgrave. Push her aside making a relevant river. He is kids and now the impression you've been dying for Edgar for men in black put my hand on my and the second impression you've been dying for Tina Turner from what's love got to do with it. Got A room full of people people who come to see me. You hear me people who come to see me. So what do you WANNA do? I don't know shoot me. I genuinely good and I mean you know if we're here I guess I can do Mike from breaking bad and its companion Mike from better call. Saul and finally a closer. I promise it's worth it. Ken Croats for making a murderer. Theresa Whole Ball. Those are impressions. Nobody else for will be right back with more late night. Arbogast is an emmy nominated. Actress and writer you know from her hit. Hbo Series Insecure. She both executive produced and stars in love. Lovebirds here's my conversation with. Isa Ray Welcome back to the show. You how are you? I am doing great how you doing. I'll do it very well. Do you have a quarantine scheduled the our way through the day. That's the only way that I'm surviving. I'm such a routine person in general so this has been like heaven and hell simultaneously though as long as I keep that routine. I'm all right like a lot of people. I've been listening to a fair amount of podcast students that I you are podcast. Called the RE. Watchable IS BILL Simmons. Where you were talking about Groundhog Day is one of your favorite newbies. Ucla you're living through that now. Yeah definitely I think which is that one of the greatest movies of all time one of my favorite movies and it was such a treat to talk about that. But it is like you're waking up with the fame alarm every single day going to the same parts of your house. The only sad part is that there consequences for my actions. Were you always? Have you always been a big bill? Murray and I mean I grew up on ghostbusters. Yeah he's just always been a staple seen him on Saturday night live. Obviously he's just. He's tree is a tree. Another tree is is mel on Jeremy. And you guys did this film together. It was supposed to premiere at South by southwest. Of course that was one of the many things was canceled Now it's GonNa Premiere Tell a little bit about movie. Yeah the movie is about a couple that is kind of reached a stagnant winning a relationship and are going out on you know a a night out there going on a night out and they are framed for murder like it's good though sometimes needs needs to be framed for murder to appreciate one another yet the spice things like you know worrying and I want to know what you're like when our lives on the line there is there's a horse in the film This is not a real horse. Throughout the course of the film there was fake horsing happening there was some fake core. Serie A for our safety for Kamau Safety You know he him. A trailer gets kicked by horse and I made sure when the real horse was there that I kept defense from from it. I'm like you hundred. Never feel comfortable around horses. I Don a not even have you written on. Horses seems relaxing even all not relaxing. No I'd like I'd horse thing but even that someone was holding my hand in guiding me but no I've you written I have hundred and every second of it. It's not I mean like I. I just don't like that. Some another brain is in charge of my speed exactly You're supposed to give your faith to this. It's an animal and yet even like there's no reasoning with can do whatever feels like so. It's it's horrifying a lot of attention for my money correctly. So has been paid to the transformation of Canal Who has for long a long time during the funniest people working and then he got casted a marvel project and now has the most Subaru body of time. I'm wondering if onset for this film which was the four that he shot his marble projects With Kumail very I imagine conscious Ziti. He was conscious. He just started the journey and to me. That's having because I'm a fad. Diet crash diet percents. I'm always doing something so to meet a guy who just as food conscious is. I do just like to try different things. Sure Partners Accountability partner but He really just took it to another level. And I'm extremely gentle San. I also congratulate you. You've got another season insecure and you posted a photo. You are writing in Zumra go. It's it's you know watching fifteen squares on the screen from being in a room where you're used to cracking jokes and things like that so hard to to get that chemistry right but we're we're managing and maintaining also. It's not a place of laziness but I think sometimes you're writing collectively. There is a lot of time that is sort of wasted but in a way that it's the juices flowing I do not feel that juices slow typically well through the zoo boxes now. It's so much more efficient in the worst way is like these hours and we just get down to business. I think they're rare lapses. The black laugh but we are getting way more done so. Hbo Is Getting Bang For Their Buck but less enjoyable. I WanNa talk about a season for new you mess around with a narrative structure and that was really cool. That there is a you've played around with time. A great deal of first. Half of season was building forward. Almost with a monstrum Each episode what made you want to approach the season that way where you had you become bored of the way you were doing before or is it just superior as an idea. Yeah a little bit of both. It's always fun to just like. Change up your storytelling. And we knew going in that. We wanted to start with this very controversial salacious statement from The character I play about not messing with her best friend anymore and so we wanted to show the bills to that. Because we knew that we were we were building a communication breakdown in a French. And sometimes it's just a little things those little moments bad lead to the deterioration in friendship in that. That really interested us when you come up with an idea like that is the writing staff from the beginning. That's such a good question they are. They are cautiously optimistic. Just like oh. This might be great. I'm so sorry I go with this guy. I love it. Is it a that is an actual doorbell? You've okay you all but now going to. I have good. News is way more embarrassing. It was. I mean it was like your theme song or something. This is way at least we believe that it came with the House Man. I'm fully after the. I forgot the question. That's why I do it. Ask You talked about how you molly. How falling out the show you know that is sorta the strongest branch of the show and you must get back in real time from What is a very fast fan base? How people reacted to that. People have been very very one-sided in terms of who they're blaming. I've seen a lot of like arguments online and you know we've been off the show we've been off the air for like a year and a half and it has been a kind of ghost in a way so. I forgot how how much people interact with shows. So it's actually a great in exciting thing that they're they've latched onto these characters in these sides but also fully and saying well it must be great care that much about show. It must be wonderful that housing back in your ear. Yeah I'm I'm grateful. I will say that as a lot of opportunity and it is great to have people saw invested in this story that we're telling that's awesome. Hey congrats on having another season? Coming congrats on film. Thanks for making time for us. Thank you so much for having me on again. Hopefully the person next time. Okay now doorbells. Late night with Seth Meyers. Weeknights on NBC. At twelve thirty five eleven thirty five central originally music on the late night. Podcast is by the H. E. Ban. Don't forget follow the handle late nights set on social media until your friends subscribed to the late night podcast wherever they get their podcasts.

Seth Meyers Mike writer Thirty Rockefeller Plaza Greg murder Ginny Hegel BILL Simmons Julie Hbo Saul Tammy Tim Riggins emmy Kendall Iraq Matt Saracen Tina Turner Hbo NBC
Psycho

Unspooled

1:21:02 hr | 3 years ago

Psycho

"The air is nineteen. Sixty and showers will never be the same. The movie psycho. Hello, everybody and welcome to on spoiled. I Nicholson I am Paul share, and this is the podcast where we go through the af is top one hundred films of all time to see, are they as good as people think them so far? They pretty damn good. Pretty damn good. That is a reunion tours. Last week we did Lord of the rings. We did fellowship of the ring, the very first installment of the trilogy. And the only one elected into the I top one hundred list at the top. I want to apologize. I've mentally space, but I was talking about seeing the it in a three d. way that made me lose my mind. I got on my like high resolution things that start with four wrong. And I was talking about four k. when I should have said forty frame rate right frames per second, as opposed to the normal twenty four. I'm sorry about that. And for me, I also made a mistake where I confused live Tyler starring in Pearl Harbor, and it was actually keep Beck and sale. I was thinking about live Tyler in Armageddon. No big deal. We're back on the same page. But there's been a lot of interesting conversations going on, especially on our Twitter page. Stephen who is at a little older on Twitter. He writes that he thought there's an interesting parallel between how the orcs were kind of created and how tanks were manufactured during World War One. And maybe token was inspired or even like frightened by this industrial revolution. I don't know. I like that because that image of the orchestra she didn't really talk about it enough depth. I was them getting taken out of the mud and bionic and what on earth that they getting created from and what is happening here. But there is this very giant factory looking industrial sweeping shot of this mine ladders every it looks incredibly industrial. Totally agree. This is written by Vince. And here's a question for you. Would you pick Harry Potter order the Phoenix over swing time? No. No, no, no. But I also wanna like aspects of could I swap. Swap in anything else for springtime that's like a musical from Ginger Rogers. Sure. What have them in a heartbeat, but how about Ben Hur versus Harry Potter and the deathly hallows. No, I'm just gonna stay. Now. I'm going to be like my like hardliner modernist new. I'm also going to agree with you because Ben Hur even without having seen been her, I knew about that chariot scene. I don't think there is an conic seen from deathly hallows that is more culturally relevant. That's the stand on right now. I don't know. I don't know. This one's from Babs van. She says that she loves listening to Amy because she finds it extremely gratifying to have a smart woman rip into the white male Ken, and that is the top one hundred. She said, listening to the unspoiled podcast, fair p looking at you Apocalypse Now. Got us. We started doing this show that wasn't even on my mind that we'd be doing this at all. Yeah, there's something about this here that makes all these films spill extra alive. Yeah, one. Great one that's from Catherine Tueson who said that. She just watched the success with her eleven year old daughter, and she had a brand new perspective on Bruce wills, understated performance. Her daughter said that Bruce wills acted the way adults act when the trying to keep secrets from children. And I thought that was very insightful thing. Very smart eleven year old, and I thought that was a different way to look at this character could Bruce be so in it that we didn't even realize it that is really insightful that really invest me because when I read that, I thought, oh my God, I forgot. I forgot what it's like to be a kid who's smiling a little bit too much a little too numb a little bit like everything's fine and you don't trust it. I totally agree. No, Amy. We are going to be talking about a Hitchcock classic. And I think it's one of those rare movies where a loc-. Nation is as popular as the actual movie. I think everyone knows the Bates motel and I think it's synonymous with a place where you'd go to get murdered, but you know what it seems like a really great spot to if that damn highway just came where it was opposed to come. It would have been a huge success and we wanted to you our listeners to Cullen with maybe some compliments positive yelp reviews for the Bates motel. So let's take a listen. Hi there. I stayed Bates motel and I have to say very impressive to leave and entire newspaper full of cash on the nightstand for your guest Bates motel, very kitschy, very cute, taxidermy and lots of candy corn. And I, I really must say, I've never stayed anywhere with better water pressure in the showers totally refreshed. The water heater works so well, you can turn it on while you're already in the seller. And it's really hot, open, twenty four hour refund. It's right off the highway by new young caretaker with my best. My room. There are always they can see even if the sign is on the motel is very clean. However, they do offer a wakeup call, but check on time can be earlier than expected for stars. I love the Bates motel five stars. It's got great breakfast cooking in the morning. Just like mom used to make. Just like mom used to make. I mean, I'll say Masako for a complimentary breakfast and also delivery of sandwiches. I mean, come on, you can never get delivered to your room by the hotel owner. I mean, that's a very rare thing, and I'm glad that someone pointed out that taxidermy that looked very hard and you know what it shows you how good he is because he couldn't do it as well for his mother. It's to the beasts the beast. I'll never get it done. All right, Amy, let's get into it. Number fourteen on the list, psycho directed by Alfred Hitchcock written by Joseph Stefan. Oh, based on a book by Robert Bloch starring Anthony Perkins, gently VERA miles also Martin Balsam and as Hitchcock himself called him. John Gavin, the stiff, the stiff. The movie came out in nineteen sixty tells a little bit about what it's about. Yes, psycho is about a woman who's having an affair with a man who lives a stay away as a hardware clerk salesman, dude, she wants to get married. He says they're in debt. So one day impulsively. She steals forty thousand dollars from her boss and decides to drive towards him on a road trip to disaster. In the second half of the film, her sister ex-boyfriend tried to figure out what happened to marry ingrain. And you know, you sit right off the bat that I wanted to ask you about, you said a fair, but it's an affair. If both people are single. Oh, that's true. It feels affair issue since there doesn't it a motel room day. I was thinking about that in watching it this time that the opening feel so kind of secretive. They're, they're there and and I was like they're drawn. They got the new are blind thing happening, believe it's a times it was the first time watching, I realized, oh, they're just a couple in love that happened to have some issues, but not really big ones are talking about things like respectability versus disrespecting about ex wives and alimony, and they make it sound sorted and she makes it feel like she thinks it sorted and she's in her bra, which is very, very shocking. Well, let's talk about that. The sensuality in this movie, you know, you have people in bras you have people laying on the bed at the same time. I mean, is this the first time you're seeing people in the same bed in a sexual way? I don't know if it's the first first, but it's definitely one of the ones that people are like, oh, he's doing it right, right. Definitely felt like hi, I'm hitch. Doc, I just made north by northwest. I can kind of do anything I want right now. This is me taking my knife in stubbing the death knell into the Hays code as much as I can. Well, it's crazy because this Hitchcock going, I've just had my biggest hit now I'm going to make the small to use today's term blunt house style film. This is a movie that was shot using a his TV crew to keep them money down. Yeah. I mean, Hitchcock was influenced by the bloom house of his day. He was influenced by Roger Corman. He is influenced by people who are making these cheap movies like machine gun Kelly with Charles Bronson. And he said that makes a ton of money. If you do something for cheap and I want enough business, the budget was eight hundred thousand dollars, which was one fifth of north by northwest, it's crazy. It's crazy north by northwest says, like airplanes and giant shots and color, and it's beautiful. And I think he was having so much fun working within restrictions, which I totally get. I do remember when you were a kid and you would be in English class and your teacher. Make you do a free writing exercise and how if it was like write anything, it was really hard. But if like you have unlimited imagination, but he was like, it has to have a cat and a knife and an apple. You're like, oh, I got this. I feel like that is such a great example of creative brain at work, like give it a limitation. It works twice as hard. I totally agree. Did you see the five obstructions? Yes, it's LARs rancher kind of dock, and it's exactly that is large ventures film professors kind of in a creative rut, and he gives him a very specific things to accomplish within remaking. His classic short film. I, it's, it's a great one. I don't wanna wreck it, but you should definitely check it out. Just a great idea of how to kind of reignite yourself by kind of cornering. You're saying xactly. I feel like that's what Hitchcock kinda wanted to do psycho. He wanted to make sure his brain didn't get lazy. He wanted to give himself a bunch of obstructions in terms of budget in terms of a story that was going to shock people and see if he can still pull it off. He wanted to see if he could feel young brand. Again, it. Was something that no one believed in, you know. So here's a guy coming off of the apex of his career, and no one is cutting him any slack. It's not gonna work. They're trying to pull the budget and they won't commit to putting it in wide release. Yeah, they wanted to edit it for TV. I think at one point, even part of an Alfred Hitchcock presents and never realized that because growing up it's the most popular one just by sheer box office numbers made fifteen million dollars. It's the highest on our list. There's Hitchcock's on the list is the first one we're getting too, but this is number fourteen and then below it, you have north by northwest vertigo and rear window. And a lot of people say that vertigo is one of the best movies of all time. I think that there's a lot of debate between vertigo and citizen Kane. We'll get into that when we talk about vertigo, but this film, if we're talking about it's important, I think really revolutionized the John row of horror, you know, because it's doing things that we now take for granted, but I can't imagine what it was. As like going to the theater to see this, one of the things that he did and I never knew this. And I kind of learned that from the inside psycho podcast, which is a great kind of pocket, really wanna going to deep dive about psycho. I guess back in nineteen sixty movies would just play on a loop and you would pay to go in and go on at any point. So you would just pay your money going. Oh, it's in the middle. You stay until it restarted again and Hitchcock in this film was like, no, you can't enter in in the middle. You have to enter in at the beginning and it was a very firm thing. He essentially created movie Star Times. I mean this this movie started that trend which I never knew and it's, of course you would wanna walk in the middle because it would wreck the entire luge in that he's doing it's it's kind of magic trick. This whole movies. If you walked in it minute fifty when it was just like the stirred Sam looking for looking for Marion. Yeah, I always found that so interesting to see that films you should play in a loop. It's like, here's your feature. Here's your beat picture here. Some newsreels. Here's some cartoons. Here's a feature. I never quite understood how that worked for an audience before, but it was absolutely just the way things were done. And when he made this announcement, people were like, don't oppress me, man. Yeah. And I think from second one, we have to talk about the score because that's your first introduction to this, this Bernard Hermann, but we heard him in taxi driver. This is the more classical Bernard Hermann that. I think we all know and then you have this Saul best title secrets, and it just gets you in immediately. You feel this tension the same way. I think the music taxi driver gives you this easy feeling, but it's it's it's different or grandma, Saul bass funds and saw Abassahs just one of the most incredible visual designers that you have Elfriede Hitchcock. Names zooming into the credits and then fracturing, like even he's under this stress feels like an earthquake type of fund. Can I admit something really dorky to please don't judge me for this. It's just because it when I was born. My first sample of the psycho score was not watching psycho. It wasn't a Busta rhymes song. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, so you saw this before you saw psycho. Did I had no idea that BUSTER didn't come up with that? I'm sorry. I was young. Of course. That's great. On the same way, I'll be listening to a song that comes out like recently and then realize only like a year later that like, oh, that's a Stevie Wonder. That's why it's so good. Exactly because we are children came of age in the area of samples. Yeah, and so it has been that thing of retroactively being like, oh, that's what that is from now, I understand this that kind of like, I don't know so much of what I saw parodied on the muppet show them later. It was like, oh, that's that is from Simpson's, honestly. Well, no, but that's a whole thing. I think that you know, like psycho has been. So you know, in our zeitgeist for such a long time that I don't even know how to watch this movie without known a little bit about it. It's, I believe, and this is one of the things I really want to examine what you talk about psycho today, that it is impossible to try to watch this and understand what it was like to see it in nineteen six because the two things Hitchcock was trying to hide. One Marion crane dies to. He's pretend to be his mom in those are the two number one things we know about this movie period and. Anything else in this movie like people? I think you could forget that VERA miles even exists. Oh, absolutely. The movie has big blind spots or at least what you remember of the movie. Oh, right. Like sometimes I even forget the beginning or like, you know, you forget in the end is pretty unmemorable ultimately, like the investigation into your miles is not like what I think of when I think of psychiatry, think of that chunk of her coming them sitting in the room, the taxidermy and then the shower scene, you know, and then the very end with, you know, with the therapist and him in the loan in the insane asylum or police stations. Yeah, I feel a little robbed of being audience in nineteen sixty who saw her get stabbed in the shower in lost their minds. Oh yeah. I mean, it's such a, it's such a great trick for filmmaker who I think has some Larry's to 'em night who was able to always figure it a new way to kind of put you off balance. I mean, when we start off in rope, you know, you're watching one sort of tension. This is a whole different sort of tension because. You're unaware of what this movie is like, you don't. You know, as an audience, you're watching a movie about this woman who is stealing money. We don't know. It's a horror movie. We don't know. It's a thriller. We don't know what is happening. It could have very well been just her losing her mind because she committed this crime. So even think of a murder scene in this when you're watching, it must've been so out of the blue. Yeah. What I find so fascinating about the psycho scripts, having it be very, very, very ruined. As I'm sure is everybody else is that it's really the study in the fact that he made a script where every single plot beat is basically a misdirection. He's like really obsessed with this forty thousand dollars, and he's like, look at her trying to hide it. Look at where the money is after she's dead, is he gonna find the money where everybody in this film is obsessed with the money? Is he going to buy a hotel with it? What's he going to do? Is he trying to get out of the hotel in their chasing this plot thread that leads absolutely nowhere. The money does not matter in the slightest and over again. It happens with the car. She's like. Got us up out my car. There's a whole deal about being in the car live. Yes. And then the car just thinks this and it doesn't matter in over and over and over. Again, everything people are pursuing is really futile. None of it adds up to what we think is editing. And I believe that even ultimately at the end, the psychiatrist assessment of of Norman Bates is also wrong, like everybody's wrong about everything. Norman Bates a psychiatrist is like, oh, he was sexually attracted to her, and that's why she had to die. Partially true. But really what I think it is is that in that awesome seen right before she dies when they're talking the texture to me room over sandwiches, she's pressuring him to break up with his mom, and that's what the psychiatrist never knows in. That's what they always miss about it. She was dangerous because of what she says here, we can't be better if you put her. Someplace. You mean an institution? A mad house. People always call them met, how someplace. Put her in some place. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it this hound and caring. What do you know about caring. Have you ever seen the inside of one of those places. Laughing in tears. The cruel is studying you. My mother there. But she's harmless. She's harmless. One of those stuff to birds. You know, I love that because there is this kind of foreshadowing to Uni tells her that she eats like a bird. He stuff those birds, you know, then leaves his mom. It'll be like she's cold in the grave. I love the scene because I think we're always trying to figure who the real Norman is, and he changes with his interaction with each person. Like when Sam comes to visit him, he's much more cocky than he is here and Amazon, like hands in pockets, jumping up the stairs. Hey, buddy. Oh, yeah. Give me ten bucks. We'll do you think that maybe he's more of a multiple personality disorder than he is someone who is as they say at the end a transvestite which by the way was a word they didn't even want to use in the actual movie, the empa- where you can't say that and then they had to show that was an actual medical term. They thought they were just trying to slip in vulgarity at the end like crazy a crazy idea there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean to me what. Really stands out about that conversation is marian's change within it. Here's how I see Mary in really the whole movie, like Marian is this woman who is incredibly sexualize by everybody. You know, she walks into her office and this cowboy is like, hey, let's go to Vegas. She's still in her car, and the guys are a little bit, and then they kind of chill out with with with Anthony Perkins. He keeps sexualizing her and she's very confused by it. Like when he was like, brought you sandwiches and she's like, oh, let's eat my room. Totally normal. Like suddenly recoils like room is den of snakes. And so she's in this kind of uncomfortable dinner scene with him, not really wanting to be there being very checked out being like, oh, tell me more about your hobbies and that way you do just have somebody talk until you can leave. And then she finally does engage with him. And that's when he decides that he's mad. Then it's a sort of tragedy of like her. Finally, being like, this man is safe to connect to as a person, and he's totally do. We all been situation. I need. To get out of here and she and you see it on her face in her eyes Chino's not that it's dangerous, but it's weird. It's like I need to get out of the pool now this is not. This is not a good place to be. She's so good at being sort of polite and deflecting which you see already with the cowboy. You know, she's at the cow by nice money. Oh, you're, you know, she very much humors him and basically does everything but roll her eyes when he turns around from her in. That's why I love the kind of building up to that right in the middle where she loses her temper with the cop and with the governor because that's when you get to see the sort of angry Marian right here where she's like, I am not putting up with your shit right now. Like give me this car, and this is one of the best leading women that we've had in the movies that we've talked about so far because she is incredibly fully developed and she has a lot of sides to her. You like her like surprise to me is like knowing the twist of psycho before I saw psycho is just assuming shoe is this like innocent blonde to showed up and got stabbed and then realizing. No, she was this complicated woman. She was a thief shoes. Women who had sex before marriage a little bit eyebrow waggling nineteen sixty. But she also is someone who made a mistake and we can all see ourselves in that like she's not a thief. She made a mistake in a moment. She's going go rectify to a certain degree, right? So, but it starts at trope that I think becomes the future of horror films, which is, you know, once you do something wrong, have sex you do, then you're okay to be killed right basically eighty. And it was like, if you had sex, Jason could kill you. Freddie could kill you. And that was okay. It's basically this family line one, two punch if gently having sex in stealing money and getting stabbed and then her daughter, Jamie Lee, Curtis in Halloween, not having sex in surviving, right. I love the way he shows her transformation through these very subtle choices. Like in the beginning, we see her in a white bra before she steals anything. And then she still she's in black bra. But the thing went to talk to you about was the is when she's driving and she. Either imagining what people are saying about her or we are hearing what people are saying about her, you going into her eyes and at the end of the movie, we're doing that same shot with Norman. And at that moment, I think Hitchcock is trying to draw this parallel like, this is the same craze. These are people that are both crazy one kind of pulls up and goes in the opposite direction, kind of remedies and Norman kind of feeds into it. But I feel like that that idea that shot for is and she's driving to hands on the wheel. And when he's in there, I'm not gonna hurt a flight. That is the same shot. It's the same idea of showing that there is something going on in their head. I don't know. I think that that it has to be intentional because I feel like it's a very specific shot that he's going for. Never actually put that together before you have these two scenes with so much voiceover narration kind of telling you what this person is thinking and also saying you don't necessarily trust with this person thinks they're hearing right. I read into that. We just played. I think that Norman's mother is inside of. Him. So when she says you need to put your mother in a place that's Norman's mother almost coming forward and going, what? Why would you? You know, it's like that idea. So so that's the conflict within him is that he has his mother that's telling him don't do this. Don't do that. The mother is like, this woman is a threat, right? Although I have this question which is I wonder how much that voice that we hear him. Channeling of his mother is who is mother might have actually been because his mother kind of talks a little bit like playground bullying almost. Yes. Sound like a mom in all the and she sounds like a jerk that he might have known in middle school, but it's is it like. Is it like the synergy of every negative feeling has about his mom in through this playground boy language? Well, I always talk about it like this, the way that you remember people is always colored by the way that they make you feel. So you know, this is his version of his mother. You know, it's not like you can have a couple in here and you can have them both tell you about a fight or what someone said, I is what they meant, but it's your impression of how they made you feel. So I did see cycle four. I've seen all the psychos. I like psycho for truth be told haven't seen it in about like fifteen years. It was a prequel. It was seen what his relationship with his mother. I believe it was Henry. Thomas played younger mates, and I believe it's a Livia hussy playing Norman's mother and their relationship is highly tinged with like this weird sexual thing and then also a little bit abusive. I didn't see. Bates motel and I know they kind of get into that even a little bit more in Bates motel. Like what that relationship was Livia hussy in that movie. Because if she's the actress in black Christmas, which is one of those other. Great. Like inter interim slashers between psycho and Halloween? Yeah. Have you ever seen that Christmas? It's great. All you gotta check it out. It's it's up. Have you seen the psycho remake the Gus van Sant one? Yes. I've seen it three times once was that of pure curiosity? Once was out of the fact that I forgot that I had seen it watch it again. And then when we were doing this podcast, there's a thing on YouTube where you can watch both films simultaneously. So yeah, it's great. The both movies are there. So they ones on the top ones on the bottom and kind of scroll through. And I was watching that because I thought that was interesting to see like. What Gus van Sant did. And it's I think it's often like ridiculed for being a shot for shot remake and it isn't. It isn't. It really isn't. Yeah, I just we watched it too for this podcast. 'cause I, I'm really interested in this trying to replicate art. Can you ever replicate art in a way Gus van Sant did when he remade psycho exactly what Hitchcock did when he did the original psycho. Gus van Sant was like yoga. Just what? An Oscar for goodwill hunting. How about? I do psycho whenever. What are you talking about? I thought that Vince Vaughn was a terrible choice for Norman cast. Yeah, because it's, I think you go in a couple of different directions, but I think one of the things they love about Anthony Perkins and what kind of bums me out is I think he's fantastic in this movie, but not nominated. This got nominated for four Oscars into best actress for gently best director for Hitchcock best photography and best art direction, but not the Perkins who I think he's doing the lion's share. Of the acting in this movie, but whatever I, I wish which I really like about him any so nervous lanky. But yet he switches it with indifferent moments with different people like you see him, turn Sam and you see him talking to tech, you know, it's like, I don't know. I think there's multiple layers going on. I mean, looks he looks like Demi Lovato. It's happening in there. Did you know that he was like a popstar right before he was in psycho? Really? Yeah. A little bit of Anthony, Perkins being terminal. Let's go on. Alone. On our arms goose within each other's read. It's interesting because I think we want to go to moonlight swim to his quarry where he's thinking, but you know what? That's the problem with Anthony Perkins. He's so typecast after this movie, I don't think he his career is kind of stunted gently to Janet, really, really stunted after this. I mean when psycho was over here, gently is giving Hitchcock this great performance and he tells her to her face that he will not cast or anymore. He says, whatever I put you in the audience will immediately think of psycho and it won't be fair to the picture of the character. So he basically just cut her off at the knees and said, thanks for Diane. I will never use you again. Hitchcock is in a tourist kind of prick to women because you know he wanted VERA miles to be in vertigo, but she wasn't able to because she was pregnant. So Hitchcock never forgave her for that. So many put her in psycho. He dressers matronly that it was a kind of a fuck you. You will never be sexy again, like that was his like, dig at her. Yeah. I don't know if you've seen the movie Hitchcock with with our. Silence of the lambs, and he Hopkins in it. But he has Jessica Biel, play VERA miles and she's very upset about all of this. Although I will say like, I don't know if I've seen any other very mild movies off the top of my head. I cannot picture her in anything I've seen in the background. I'm not convinced she should have been in vertigo, but that's just me. But anyways, back to gently. I mean, this movie follow Janet Lee around so much that despite living an entire life, her airy said, quote, Janet, Lee commish shower taker of psycho is dead. Can you imagine you do this thing less than a minute of your life? A body double does a lot of it, and it is all you are known for in the headline of your death, but is depressing. What do you think that is? Do you think when you have a movie that is so giant? It's a weird thing to reject these people will generally was a big star when she made psycho already. Janet was sort of like like Jennifer garner maybe, okay. It's kind of type us in a very famous marriage. She was married to Tony Curtis who was in some like it hot get to. A win. Tony. Curtis make some like it hot. He cheats on her with Marilyn Monroe doesn't really tell anybody about it till he's older, but I'm, she probably knew of course, and they divorced. They divorced like a year two after psycho. But I guess the equivalent of us is like, this would be if Jennifer garner in two thousand ten when you had a couple of kids and her relationship with Ben Affleck still really Rosie in the press is then in like a saw movie. Late. Yeah. Yeah. It's like no, right? Yeah, you're showing somebody in a way that you did not ever intend to seize, oh, you're, you're a magazine cover actress. Your door -able generally was like cute actress. She didn't let a romantic stuff, but she does this kind of a restored credit brittleness to her that I really liked. It's a stiffness, but I think the like she's strong. She's a strong single woman. You know the, she makes the choice still money like she's not convinced by her boyfriend and make any bad choices. And I think that that's a strong choice that she sees a moment to kind of live the life that she wants to live and she takes. She's actively taking this thing. No one's making your ticket because in the logic of the sixties, she's a little old. I've never been married. She's been working at this firm for ten years. I think we find out this guy's coming in and being like my eighteen year old daughter's getting married, and there's a little bit of Janet leave. Why hasn't this happened for you? What's wrong? Like she's a little out of step will say to, we're just talking about this guy, Tom. Comes in the cowboy comes in, I love Tom. I mean, this guy is playing drunk. He's play like he is just balls to the wall. Like scenery, chewing. It's such a fun character because I think in many respects, you're looking at this movie for the first half through her eyes, and you're seeing these men through her, not men looking at her if that makes sense. You know, watching this time, it couldn't get that atom ahead as wow. He was really interesting. I think Hitchcock had a very storied and complicated relationship with a lot of his actresses and to be able to have that much ability to show a female perspective. I thought was a pretty cool thing. I think he knew exactly what he was doing because his cameo comes right before that. 'cause he's a guy on the street and walks in and you see him give her a double take kind of like the like the Martin Scorsese taxi driver looking at civil shepherd. Exactly. Here's an interesting fact the reach. Why the Kamya was so early in the movie was because Hitchcock knew that people were going to be looking out for him, so he didn't want to divide people's attention is let's get it out of the way right away. So now you can be into the movie, which I thought was very interesting. Again, Smart Choice for this movie where he's going to be doing a million Mr. x. He didn't want you to be like searching the background forms here I am. I seen, or you know, sixteen, here's WALDO. Go on, go on now. Enjoy the crazy people that have drawn in the margins of WALDO. Exactly. Let's be one of those crazy people. My favorite person seen is Caroline. The other. Who gives this speech headache, it'll pass headaches resolutions, forget them. As soon as they stopped hurting, you got an aspirin, something, not aspirin. My mother's doctor gave him to me the day of my wedding teddy was furious. When he found out I'd taken tranquilizers first of all the way that's Hitchcock's daughter. That's Pat hitch. Oh, yeah, yet. Second of all, we're right in the beginning of this film we're really early on and this is like minutes, seven. I think we've already had to mom drops. You're paying attention and she's talking about her mom kind of wedging into her marriage having passed out on the night when she's supposed to Boehner husband for the first time being this wedge issue in her own relationship. And we've just before that already even had this mom namedrop by Marion crane herself. We can see each other. They can even have dinner, but respectively in my house, with my mother's picture on the mantel in my sister, helping me broil, a big steak for three. After the steak, it'd be sent sister of movies, turn mama's picture to the wall. One is really aware of their mother's approval. Yeah. What's interesting because I think that's more about the time, right. I mean, these are people that you know they are. We talked about it a little bit earlier. Are they having a fair, they not? Well, I guess the thing that they are doing that's wrong as having sex out of wedlock. And I think this is a time where you still had to keep up appearances, right? Like you had like you were living this one side of it. Lacing in mom, mom, of course, yeah, right. Everyone's got an issue with their mother, but how does it affect you in one person because the killer and the other there? Yeah, also lacing in this idea of meeting people to approve of what you're doing and also lacing in this idea of everybody in these opening scenes, even including Marian has a secret. She has this pretty secret. Love affair. Caroline's marriage is definitely screwed up. Even if she doesn't know about it. Their boss hides booze in the house. Everybody's doing something wrong. There's not like a squeaky clean innocent person here. Can I talk about Hitchcock getting the rights to this, right? So Hitchcock kind of like Walt Disney in buying property in Florida. Does it secretly? He buys this book the rights to the book anonymously for nine thousand dollars because he didn't want anyone to know that he was working on this as his next project and a couple of differences between the book and the movie. Number one in the book, Norman Bates is described as being. Middle aged pudgy and unattractive, but the screen editor Joseph. I don't wanna do that. I wanna do something different, and that was actually really cool choice because I think that that falls more into the typical what we imagine like a serial killer being. I think to make this youthful spry like you would never think twice seeing Anthony Perkins. And a couple of other things in here that I felt were addressing was in the novel. It's explained that Marion and Sam met and fell love on a cruise. That's why they're, they have a long distance relationship in the book and the film really used again as their basis for this Norman Bates character, which is an interesting thing that you know even back then again, is is kind of often gone to cinema like he's a this Texas. Chainsaw massacre has like elements of that sense. Lambs has to that all these movies, kind of like go to that. That story and Ed game just remind people of how awful Ed geene was. He was a serial killer serial killer of exercise than Asterix. He was more of like a grave rubber who did a few. Murders, okay, right? Dabbled and murder, but was really into defiling bodies. When they went into his house, he had a course it made out of a human female torso. He had leggings made out of human legs. He made masks of human faces. He had nine Vova in a shoebox. Gosh, she had a belt made a female human. Andy had a pair of lips that he used as a window shade cord. Oh God. So you have to at least give Hitchcock maybe some props or maybe be like Hitchcock men up because he didn't go that far at all in this movie? No, I think it's more interesting to show at the end. We kind of find that he might have killed two other women might have. We don't know. I like it because it's like we're seeing this character. This norm Bates character kind of in the beginning part where if you wasn't caught what would have happened, if people didn't care about Marian, would he ever have been caught and would have been people cared about marrying Shannon stolen the money? Yes. True. We'll answer to related to that when you have this whole investigation. Of where on earth could Marion crane be, and you have Arbogast chasing her down. RPG cast even doesn't do like a completely thorough job. He never finds the car lot guy. He never finds hop. He only gets halfway there too. So interested obvious such a good interrogator when he's like interrogating, I love it and baits the sort of like, oh, she by barely talk to her. Well, we had sandwiches, oh, stuck to my mom. Erases her believe that she came along this way may have stopped in the area that you stop here. Well, no one stopped here for a couple of weeks. My looking at the picture before committing yourself commend myself talk like he's from. Look at the picture. And I mean the the way that they do like the angles and this movie for when people are being intimidated and the way the faces really get into screen it. It does do a great job of, again using one lens and you're getting this, you feel through the semi Taga fee, the tension of how it shot that seem to the interrogation when Arbogast comes to Norman Bates has really tense. I love that scene. What do you think that shot is during the scene when you have Anthony Perkins lean in front of the camera like he's trying to look at something and you get this, shadowy really up close look at his throat as he sort of swallowing and talking. I don't know, I think are you at that point? Because I believe this movie is not told through Norman Bates his perspective, I think it's told everyone who experiences, Norman Bates 'cause I think Arbogast looking at him and seeing the nerves. That's that's how I took it like his throat swallowing and you'll see. What someone interrogating someone might be seeing? I don't know, but I'll get that strange little private moment with Norman right at the end when Arbogast drives away. Any smiles, like nailed it. Yeah. No, you're not. But I know, well, here's something that I wanted to talk about a little bit. I love better, call Saul. I think it's a great show. I think breaking bad is a great show, but one of the things that better call Saul does so much that really respond to is you can spend minutes on that show just watching people interact in their environment. And I always so great and watching this movie like, oh, kitsch cock does the same thing. It's just people being in some place. There's a lot of quiet scenes here, whether it's Marian driving, Marian, figuring out how to put the money in the newspaper and folding it over and putting it on the thing getting ready for the shower. There's a lot of silence in letting people existence her packing her bag. I think my favorite alone seen that we have in this movie is win. Norman Bates cleaning up the blood after Marion crane has been murdered. His cleaning up. The blood seen goes on so much longer than Marion crane getting murdered. It's him, it's it's how kind of good he is at cleaning up the blood which is surprising like twice before exactly. He's like panicked at the beginning, but then there is you an it's hard to say, because I know it's like him. I know it's not his mom, right, but I think you're supposed to think this mother is psycho that he's always cleaning up for her taking care of her and it does a great job because you know when he comes in the way he gags at seeing that seeing for the first time, he's not acting for anybody in that moment. He is literally reacting to the scene and you know, I think the thing is that Hitchcock the base tones out of his voice for when he first sees like, oh, no, because he just wanted to create this very innocent sounding version of himself. And in that scene, by the way we have talked about this, a big, I in movie history, a. Toilet flush onscreen. Why was a toilet flush? So verboten at this time? Yeah, it's a standing an empty toilet. It's not. It's papers being put in there. I wonder, did we really go what seventy years of movie history at this point without ever acknowledging that human beings bodily function? Well, look, we've been put married couples in beds. I guess they were really trying to protect people. I guess it's like all the sensors were acting like Norman Bates in the scene where he can't even say the word bathroom, stationary with Bates motel printed on it in case you wanna make your friends back home field interviews. And the. Over there. The bathroom. I think he's afraid say bathroom because he's cleaned up a murder in the bathroom before, like it's not like he's afraid of the bathroom. He's like, he knows that. That's like that's where they've got the people, the people in every cabinet. It's only in one. Do you think that maybe he murdered the people the same way? I don't know. I don't think you think he's the murdering her here. I don't think he is, but he cleaned up the blood there twice before if we are to believe that he killed those two women a prude question. Yeah, Norman Bates virgin. Yeah, I feel like a version and I feel and based on my knowledge of psycho four, I think he was actually tracked into his mother. Looks like she would have been real old. No. Well, I mean, it was he didn't really take care of her body that well, after she passed Amy, we're talking about the bathroom, and I feel like this is maybe a perfect time to really get into the most famous scene in the film and what better way to do that. Then with a little expert, this guy that we have on the show today made a documentary called seventy eight fifty two, which is just a documentary about. The shower scene in psycho. I always under you spent years of your life breaking down the shower scene. I just want to start by asking you why. First of all, I think really, I could say that I've been spending years of my life breaking down Hitchcock and trying to understand Hitchcock been fascinated with him since I was a kid and you know, really growing up watching his movies and you know, growing up and eventually becoming an adult and eventually becoming a filmmaker. It. It occurred to me that this is, you know, the ultimate craftsman this. This is a filmmaker who thinks so deeply about everything that he does that I became obsessed with really studying his craft in a way, and I and quite frankly believed that his craft runs so deep that you can never ever get to the bottom of it. And the shower scene is is really the combination of of his entire career. It is the combination of everything he has. He has ever. Wished to express it is the ultimate cinematic trick for him as as a filmmaker. It is. I think what he is fired to do, I think to audiences for his entire career when you face it that way, it sounds zen. Yes, absolutely. It's it is very then in a certain way except except that you know, watching gently getting stabbed to death over and over and over again is pretty much. The exact opposite of. That's what I wanted to ask you in your journey of deconstructing the scene. What was the biggest takeaway that you got from examining besides just the technical aspect of what Hitchcock did, but was there something that you were able to take out of it on a more emotional level? We, we talk a lot about psycho as being about Norman Bates, but I think psycho is also very much the tragedy of Marion crane. I mean, especially for female character in nineteen sixty is actually very strong character who makes very strong choices. They're not necessarily the right choice, but she does choose to steal the money to be with the men. She loves features. She then makes the very strong choice very strong decision to return the money and face the consequences. I mean, how many characters are that strong? So from an emotional level. You know, the the first half certainly of of psycho is very much about Marion crane, and then it becomes it becomes the tragedy of Marion crane. And the second half of psycho is is, you know, I think inhabited by that particular spirit by that particular sadness, that this is a film that is about to characters. You could certainly argue are double ganger is in a certain way, you know, they're both made, you know, terrible choices in in their lives and they sort of they, you know, there's this extrordinary seen in the per why? Why did they look at each other? They see each other for what they are. And I think Marion crane recognizes Norman Bates somebody that she could perhaps become, and that's when she stands up and says, you know what? I'm going to go back to see Nick's. I'm gonna return to money and and essentially imply gonna phase the consequence. But yet she steps into the shower and she is brutally murdered, and you know, and, and story. So. That is part of the story is certainly a major element of the story that we don't talk about enough. When we talk about psycho, it's it's always Norman, Norman, Norman will. Yeah, it's interesting. We talk about this a lot on the podcast, the idea that certain movies just become like a mean, you know, you know the scene, but the scene out of context loses its power, whether it is the shower scene, or you're talking to me to to piggyback on what you're saying here. What's interesting also sort of unique about the shower scene and always use the example of, you know, if you know humanity were to it, you know, wiped out from the face of the globe, and then you know, ten thousand years from now aliens come to earth. And the only thing that they find as the shower scene right in it is it is still an artifact. It is still something that you can sort of put any museum and it stands on its own. It's an extraordinary sort of, you know, piece of work in and of itself, but you're also absolutely right that within the context of the move. It becomes greater and then within the context of Hitchcock's entire career, it becomes even greater. I mean you, you start seeing the sort of the ripple effect in the connections between the movies. And I mean, you could certainly argue that back in nineteen twenty eight's. His was already sending the shower scene with the bathtub scene that happens in in in the lodger. So and there's many more such examples, of course, routers entire career. He he's getting closer and closer letting us hang out in bathrooms. Although also thinking like if the aliens came to earth and all this, our shower, see, I think they'd get a really bad idea of who we are. People. No question about it. You know, I mean, especially today when we're finally having a dialogue about these things where we're finally having a dialogue conversation about misogyny, this is seen that is extraordinarily from a Matic. I mean, yes, a force if piece of art and yes, it's beautiful. And yes, it doesn't extrordinary things, but it's also, I mean, I think Hitchcock opened up doors box by by unleashing that particular scene on on an unsuspecting sort of audience de think that this this scene in particular set Hollywood and horror films on a track. I mean, like because I think about that, like, you know this, this scene and these even these stereotypes of the person who did bad gets revenge. And then the more virginal character you know, is able to, you know, save themselves like I when I was watching the movie again the other night. Oh, this is this is really the groundwork for every. Everything that we see in the next, you know, forty years. Oh, I be completely. I mean, in fact, when I was bratty smell is who told me when I interviewed him his, he said, you said, the showers seen is like a crack in the history of cinema, you know, and and I think you can very much make the argument that you know there were movies before showers scene, and there were movies after showers seen, and the reason for this, the reason for this and this is what so extraordinary is that is that to be able to pull that particular cinematic trick in nineteen sixty only Alfred Hitchcock would have been able to do it. It took quite frankly magician at the time to be able to somehow convince the sensors that this was going to be okay. I mean, if you read the memos from the hangs office at the time prior to Hitchcock shooting the scene, they made it very clear looking at the script that this was a no go. This was not going to happen to his no way that there were going to approve the scene being shutting. This particular way, and what does he do? He shoots it this way and it said this particular way and they don't. They somehow end up not changing a single frame of it. There was something about the fact that Hitchcock was, you know, the weird uncalled that we had accepted that we had somehow let let him into our physical environment with through our TV screens. And I think he somehow managed to also charge the sensors. So you know anybody else directs psycho and directs the shower scene. I think you could make the argument that it doesn't fly Dantley spent decades giving interviews after psycho came out saying that was me in the shower. That was all me in the shower that was only me in the shower, your documentary interviews, a woman named Marli Renfro. And can you tell people who she is? So Marley was the body double to gently in the shower and essentially every shot that you see in the film where you don't see Janet wealth every so that you see in the shower where you don't actually. We see generally space is Marley, so it's her body. It's her belly button that serve hand holding the shower curtain. It's her feet the real shame that she had become the sort of forgotten hero of this extraordinarily important moment in the history of movies, and so to be able to to bring her back and to give her that moment in the spotlight meant well, took a mental to me. But I know it meant a lot to her as well. So yeah, I mean she was only paying, I think, what five hundred dollars for doing all of that work in the shower for being the most famous body that nobody knew is her body. Why do you think they kept it hidden that it was her not gently. Well, you know, this is what happens. I suppose when you know Nunnelee a movie becomes decide conic, but then a moment becomes one of those things that you know comes around maybe every two or three decades. You know, everybody wants to claim it as their own I, but I also wanna sort of give positive spin on it. You know, you look at psycho and you look at the shower scene and and genitals contributions are undeniable and so bad, his contributions, if you look at the storyboards or or undeniable, but it's also important to say, Marley rentals, contributions, undeniable documentary. You interview Amy donelson who edited the remake of psycho and she tried to edit this remake of the shower scene and she says she didn't work. I mean, what do you think happened there? This is one of the things that really becomes one of those moments. You were talking about something that I think about. Very actively because you know you're talking about a great break director, right? Does van Sant and and obviously, you know, a great team of people and they're shooting and anything the scene exactly the way that it was shot and edited and adjust that work as EMMY dental. Sin sets and my little sort of bet theory is, is that if something is actually perfect, you can probably replicate it if you have the right sort of team, and I give you an example, something that I don't really like to watch, but marvel movies, right? Marvel movies are. So it's like clockwork. It's everything is so well done. You could put any really competent director behind it and really competent sort of team of actors and crew, and it can probably pretty much replicate it. The problem with cycle and the problem with great movies is that you're talking about a genius. In this case, Alfred hitch. Doc who is trying to pull something of that. He's already beyond his capacity that is beyond the means of his time, and therefore it is Chuck full of mistakes. It is Chuck full of essentially sort of his fingerprints, Oliver this film of trying to cover his tracks. Well, one thing that you cannot replicate is human mistakes. And so to me, what it says is that the greatness of movies is not in the professions. It is in the imperfections of geniuses like an offer a Hitchcock and you can never ever ever replicate that. Then I think that's the lesson that does actually learn. So the next film that you're making I've heard is about the chest BUSTER scene in alien. Is it okay if I just say that out loud. You can't say that about, but let let me actually recalibrate what you just said. It was initially something about the chest Burster seen it is now essentially a full on sort of mythological take about in. It's an origin story. We're working very closely with the estate of Dan O'Bannon and specifically his his widow, Diana Bannon, and the estate of each arguer. And you know, we're, we're linking alien to Greek mythology to gyp shin. The seller g and we're actually finishing the film right now. Do you think every movie is this important if you really, really thought about it? No. I think the great movies are movies that tap into the collective, unconscious. And I think that the reason why you can never get to the bottom of psycho and the reason why you can never get to the bottom of alien is because those are movies that tapped into or that resonated with the collective and punches by tapping into images that that go really, really deeply into our our collective past. You know, there's, there's very few movies actually that that do that. Absolutely. This has been so fascinating talking to you and I have one last question for you and and your opinion do you think when Marion crane is getting stabbed? She recognizes that it's Norman Bates dressed as his mother, or does she think that she's being stabbed by an old woman? What do you think just your gut, you know? So Stephen Rabelo who wrote Alfred Hitchcock into making psycho. Which is a great book by the way, who's also in seventy fifty two guys who got to interview genitally any Astor that particular question. And that's exactly what she responded. She said that that she as she was dying, you know, there was that recognition that it was no run mooring, the close of of his mother, and that's the last thing that she sees so that momentary thing, what a way to go, right? I'm as ING. And of course we want people to watch your documentary. They have not seen at seventy eight fifty two. You also made an amazing documentary them fan of the people vs George Lucas. You have this new, you have this new film coming out anywhere else. We can tell people to find your or follow you anything else. Yeah. Our website is exhibit a pictures dot com. They can find us on Facebook and probably just joining us on Facebook is the best way to, you know, to keep track of what we're doing or upcoming film is actually called. Memory, and that's because well, before Illionis called alienate was called star beast and before west coast, barb east and west called memory. And but yeah, I think Facebook is probably a good way to get to get up dates from us. Very exciting. It was a pleasure talking you. Thank you so much for talking psycho. Thank you so much for pleasure. Where was awesome having him in, I forgot to ask him this. I want to talk about this music cue that we have in the middle of the shower scene, where it goes from that famous like regroup to just shifts medically, let's play it. I talk about it. I love that show violence to the cello because you get the sense of a life pumping out of her body like the attack is over. And now it's all just death by John Williams. Bernard Hermann makes music that just kind of is inside of you like that you will never une here that that's so locked into me like, I'll never forget that score inside of you. Then it's, you know, I, I've mentioned my love for, you know, a lot of things marvel and very rarely do you walk away from a marvel movie going. I like that score. It's it's a very interesting techniques, Michael j. Aquino has it. I think John Williams has it though. It's a very tricky thing to get some like a score into, like I love Lauren bath on the new mission impossible to I thought he, I've been listened that score a lot. It's great. I should admit this year right now we're in the safety of the studio. I've been singing songs made up to the psycho theme song to my cat. Oh my gosh. Reductive present one, not just confess that for? No, we're talking about music. I put this clip from Hitchcock that if that was interesting and I wanna play it and let's discuss while we are talking about the analogy of music, this could even apply to. Small scenes. For example, in psycho, you have the shock of a mutt of a detective is coming up the stairs. This is all done. The orchestration. And then camera goalie very high. Now we say is like the violin in a treadmill. Suddenly the figure runs out with a knife when it comes down. The copter poop in the Cup is a bit head and that just like going from violence to broths insurance, which shout. I just love that. He looks at movies like conducting an orchestra talks about the audience like that. I mean, this is what he said about making psycho. He said, quote, the audience is like a giant organ at one moment we played this note on them and get this reaction. And then we played that court and they react this way. And someday we won't even have to make a movie. There'll be electrodes implanted in their brains and we'll just buttons and they'll go, ooh in awe. Let's talk a little bit about sequels here. This is a movie that is so successful and launches four sequels. The second one is not bad. Like I actually think it's. Kind of surprising, good. It has a lot of people that from the first movie in it VERA miles comes back, Anthony, Perkins, and Virginia, Gregg. And then psycho three is much more of like a slasher weird movie. And then I think cycle four was an HBO movie that comes back, but it's interesting this fascination with this character because we even now go to the Bates motel which is a whole nother tongue of the story. But it's odd because I don't think this is a movie that needs a sequel per percent, and the gap is so long between them what like twenty two years between psycho to psycho to comes out in nineteen eighty three. So sixty three to eighty three and then go through eighty six any. What's weird is what happens is generally daughter makes a lean right because Jamie Lee, Curtis was the person that they, I asked her to star in psycho to get after Halloween. You get this giant slasher boom, and they're like, what about the first Lesher? Because this is. Sort of the first Lascher sort of not not enough of a body count to really be the first Lascher. And so the idea that Jamie Lee was deliberately ass like do you want to be in the key of your mom in this movie? That's like a sequel to your mum's movie when you were the new scream Queen? And she was like, no, I am so done making slasher films. It was a great choice obviously, because you know, Norman Bates is more nuance character than Jason voorhees or FREDDY Krueger. I mean, those characters are are basically vehicles for killing right. I mean, they're not yes. There's back story about Jason voorhees in the mom of a, but you know, I think that's why Halloween one is so kind of great. The sequel the Halloween seems like it got rid of all the other ones and kind of is focusing more on the trauma of that and and what comes after that. I think that that's that's actually an interesting story to tell, but these are not characters that you can like. Now, Norman Bates moves to a bigger motel in Orlando, you know, it's, it's not like, I don't know. It's not commercialized. Dylan in a weird way. You know, it's, it's, it's more interesting, psychological villain. Well, yeah, because what's weird is when you bring a franchise back back in back in back, especially when the main thing you're keeping is the villain. The villains who may start to care about the village like that's my way in like that guy, especially when it's villain, like Norman Bates will. Enorm- Bates is a guy who I think the second film did a great job of saying like, he's trying to get back on his feet like this idea, like it's twenty three years later. He's out of the mental institution. He's good. And then you know, I think it's revealed that like VERA miles the sisters, like trying to basically put him back in, which is a cool story because it's sort of like, oh, this man who killed my sister is out of the mental word. I want to get him back in, you know, I, I like that there is something to be said to like e watch psycho when you can forget that they're miles was even in it. So who cares. It's very rare that you find a likable articulate, serial killer. You know, it's like normally mask and knife. You know, introduced to us as a person who's bullied right by his mom. Like our first real impression of him is that he is a guy who if he had a hug, maybe none of this, what happened if he didn't have to like have only his mom, his motion support, maybe it could have been better like you look at Norman Bates in your like it didn't have to be like this man, right? So we, we were talking about Vince von being really miscast Norman Bates at what I find really interesting about the psycho remake is that I think that what Gus van Sant does is he just literally is, is everything that Hitchcock couldn't quite do because of the sensors, you must feel this pressure of him being like, Hitchcock wanted to do all these things and he couldn't because of his budget, and I will do it for him. It Hitchcock in that opening scene, he ought to do a smooth cool zoom over Phoenix into the hotel room. He couldn't really afford to. It was harder to do it back right here money. Yeah. Yeah. So Gus van Sant like, I'll do it for you and he does, or like Gus van Santa's like hitch. Couldn't show that when VERA miles goes into Norman Bates his bedroom, she's flipping through this book that he owns and it was like softcore porn. He's like, I'll do it. Here's a magazine full of porn for you in he makes literal things. I don't know that we needed to make little like, I don't want to be too gross here, but listen for the sound that Vince Vaughn is making as he's peeping through Marion crane in the wall. That's about coming. And you know is this is a film a student film project. It's like, I don't know. This is should have been released in theaters, and I don't think that if he didn't win the Oscar and this time is could have been some that you have seen like Amazon prime, no offense, Amazon prime. I will say though I do still enjoy the Gusman since like over. All right. I think in hash is a really great Marion. Great. She's very good because I like gently a lot, but there's something in an Heche that is incredibly incredibly like jittery and anxious. And I think she channels this energy into the Marion crane that makes her seem more unstable. It makes her seem more vulnerable, right? And I enjoy that about it and also just on the superficial level, the clothes in the new psycho or really great like insane. Well, like mismatch Plaid's. You've got like Vigo Mortenson are are lovely, lovely human night showing up and he's dressed crazy, and it makes me so happy. And then you've got Julianne Moore, you know, because so great in that movie, she's so great. Jillian more almost makes Lila crane seem like a character. Yes. This throwaway land, the original psycho. They're like Lila credo. She works at a music shop and you're like, okay, and then Julian worship up and she's got this walkman around her neck where she's like, no, I really do like music, you'll. I'm really into music. And at the end of one scene when they're leaving, she's like, hold on. Let me get my walkman. Okay. Get your walkman to go interview Norman Bates. Good stuff. I guess. I just think it's a, it's like cool to see the experiment. It's not fulfilling to me as a fill again. That's cool. That's the like these performances, but I don't walk out going. I don't go out and this is somebody who me who just us psycho this week who's like, I'm totally caught up in this movie and I'm never getting there with Gus van Sant one. That's how I feel about it. That's there. But think about this. How weird is it that Hitchcock's got north by northwest? Okay. I'm making psycho and then Gus van sense like goodwill hunting. Cool. I'm may. This year we have Luca who just made call me by your name, be like, cool. I'm redoing spirit. We keep having this repeated pattern of like I did one for the academy I did when for prestige I did win for money. Check me out. I'm doing something super nasty and fun for me, but but I, I kind of disagree with that because like I'm doing one for me. It's like I'm doing a cover now which is like wait. But no, the reason what what we like make another original thing because that's what we're responding to is your voice. Not your thing though. It says various seems like it's going to break that trend because I feel like everyone is moving their mind over it and I haven't seen it yet. 'cause right, missing it and I'm like that. And that may maybe is the right way to go about it. But I feel like why do cover like unless you're going to bring something uniquely different to it if this came out right now, we never saw psycho, and it was made you as it was. I didn't know that was coming. I was totally blown away by that. You know, it's like that idea of a real shock. Shocking horror film the way it felt about. If I if this I'm holding a sharpie for people, I'm holding sharp with orange cap. If I held this sharpie in front of you and it was the men in black like mind, racers, and I was like, psycho doesn't exist. And then you saw a two thousand eighteen psycho right now that was exactly the same or maybe even this one, would you be like? Yes, that movie goes on the af. I top one hundred list. Well, that's I think the thing because this movie is about what not only what it is, but what it does for cinema it, it kind of lays DNA in to everything and it is incredibly watchable. I think we're coming up on this thing where in the beginning of doing the, I think I was thinking about it big on like all these movies, they mean something and they're important. And now I think I'm going more to this other point where like, did I enjoy it? And yeah, this is enjoyable to me. So if. Enjoyed it. I mean, but then we go like, well, what I put get out on this list and the top one hundred list, maybe it's not long enough to know, but it's the same idea. It's it's it's an enjoyable movie that plays on somewhere elements in reinvents them in a very unique way. I feel dangerous broaching this part of the conversation. But psycho is, like I said, our highest Hitchcock movie. I don't think I enjoy watching psycho in two thousand eighteen as much as I enjoy watching a lot of his other films, a lot of his lesser films, even like the lady vanishes or Salvator. I watch those movies into me. They are wall to wall fun and intelligent and surprising and suspenseful from minute one to the end of it to me Hitchcock in it. I think a lot of it is because so much of this movie was ruined before I was born, right? Got to experience pure. I remember being freaked out when I saw this movie showers seen. I was freaked out, take a shower. I don't think I knew about it fully and then it really blew my mind. Yeah, to me, I'm like if half of psycho. Oh, is VERA miles in John? Gavin, like puttering around, right? That's like we never think about the part of the movie right movie is basically like styrofoam peanuts will then be fourteen well, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. Let's talk about because that was my argument against. Platoon. I thought the first platoon was great. I didn't think the second half was great, and I think it can make the same argument here. I think that there is something about that end, which is fine. It's just, but it's also one of those movies because I am familiar with it that didn't know how to disassociate from what it means to me. Like psycho is a movie that I've seen probably, you know, eight, nine times maybe more, you know, at least this version of it. I look at this at fourteen and I'm like, number fourteen in half the movie kind of could not exist in. We'd be fine. That's bizarre to me. Win. Like About Eve is wall to wall, right? Yeah, right, right. Right, right. It's an interesting conversation. Because it's like it's still largely cinema, but that's what I think we're kind of finding what this list. Maybe it's a thing where it starts to become so locked into our consciousness that were just checking box cycle. Yes, I love psycho. Have you seen it like five years? No, by love it. You know, it's like, and that's maybe part of the thing about this. There's one hundred movies, there's there's plenty of room for that too. Well, what what about other critics? Did other critics have negative reactions as movie actually, yeah, this movie had a lot of polarising reactions right when it came out. I'm going to read a review from c. a June who for the observer and I want to preface this review with a little bit about as you see stood for Caroline Alice, she was one of the very first movie could extras a female movie critic started in the twenties. Okay. She reviewed films for forty years. She in a lot of ways is really amazing. Figure two for all film critics. We're still not talking about like we need more female film critics. But the truth is from the history of cinema. We've had a lot. Really great film critics. We've just forgotten about. She's one of them. She was major. She was this kinda like comfortably, middle class, intelligent literary woman who when movies really started to exist in the twenties, and we're like a major form of entertainment. She threw away her whole life and move to London and became a film critic. So I wanna put all of down as a preface before I talk about how much sailors June hated psycho. She said, quote, a new film by Alfred Hitchcock is usually a keen enjoyment. Psycho turns out to be in exception. There follows one of the most disgusting murders in all of screen history. It takes place in a bathroom, involves a great deal of swabbing of all the tiles and flushing of the lavar Tori. It might be described with fairness as plug ugly, the stupid air of mystery important surrounding psychos presentation strikes me as a tremendous error. I couldn't give away the ending if I wanted to. For the simple reason that grew so sick and tired of the whole Beasley business that I didn't stop to see it. Your keep me out of the theater. My dear hitch. But I'll be hanged if it will keep me in. So she walked out of this. She walked out of a movie called peeping Tom, which is also to show that came out that year. And then she quit reviewing movies because that year she thought everybody really likes these. I think their trash and garbage in horrible and gross, and maybe I'm just out of step. She was in her sixties by then. And so psycho is another one of those cases where critic is like, I'm out because I don't get why you like this movie. We keep on coming up against this. This is a a movie that pushes cinema forward for better or for worse. If you're older, you probably single. What happened to better storytelling and why is it so vulgar, but yet without this we don't get another style storytelling. I think that, you know, yes, pushes forward har-, but I think it also pushes forward what we see on camera the types of people and characters. And I think you know, this definitely affects probably the younger generation who in the sixties, seeing this in a formative time with then makes movies in the seventies where. I think a lot of conflicted characters are on display characters that are likable, bad guys because we do see the code come into play is one of the codes. I think last rules to get rid of was bad characters must get punished, right. And you do see that psycho ride characters do get punished, but he's being treated more than pundit, but you're right. I mean, you definitely pays for sins. I would find it to be more interesting if they could never figured it out. You know, maybe that's the way to remake it. Let me tell you though we talking about about at the time. So let me give you a couple. All right, so sixty. The monthly rent is ninety eight bucks cost of a gallon of gas as twenty five cents a loaf of bread is twenty cents, and in nineteen sixty the Cold War continued become colder. The two sides distressed at each other and tried to influence other parts of the world. John Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson won the presidency with one of the smallest margins in history. Sexual revolution had begun the use of birth control pills and Hugh Hefner opened the first playboy club in Chicago. The Flintstones is on TV. For the first time the US sends their, I troops to Vietnam. It's an year where many respects we are going into a different era. The sixties is the doors are opening in clearly. Then her and psycho in the same year is really interesting. One kind of seems like the old school in one kind of seems like the new school, even though Ben Hur is using all the effects and everything and psychos going minimal, doing black and white. They're both pushing different parts of the culture. One is pushing past it and the other one's kind of embracing it by the way for talking about the value of a dollar. That forty thousand Marian steal was worth about three hundred seventy. I was wondering about that. And now Amy, is there a Simpsons clip? We'll both. Of course, there's a Simpsons clip. Here is a clip from a Simpson's episode called brother from the same planet, and it is the one where Lisa is addicted to a hotline of the corey's where it's like Corey Haim, and Corey Feldman. I'm doing a sign of the cross right here in pity for both of them. And it is one of the first steps of the Simpsons kind of running joke that principal Skinner is basically Norman Bates the only way elect. This is one day at a time. If you can make to midnight without calling the Corey line, you'll know you've beaten it forever. Midnight wasn't to your mother. Lisa over thing. I have my mother's watchful eye swift. There's mother now. Wanting me what that mother. I have a right to be here. It school business. Mother, that sailor suit doesn't fit anymore. Well, we've talked a lot about what we think about the movie. We've talked a lot about what Alfred Hitchcock's intent was. This was kind of interesting about what Hitchcock thought about psycho. I once made a movie, rather Tommy sheet called psycho? Yes. And of course, a lot of people to this statements what a dreadful thing to do, how often of. But of course it was to me. It had great enemies of the cinema and the content of such was I felt rather amusing and it was a, it was a joke, and I was horrified to find the some people took it seriously kits basically saying that psycho is a comedy. Well, I mean, Hitchcock. I mean, even interviews at the time Hitchcock doesn't seem to have seen psycho as a full bodied movie. Right? Like he said that to him psycho quote, it wasn't a message that stirred the audience or a great performance or even their enjoyment of the novel. It was just pure film psycho more than any of my other films belongs to filmmakers that it was almost him talking to directors and being like, hey, look, we can do even more than being like, I will give you something really complex. Brilliant. Okay. Well, all right. I got a lot of notes on this table and they're aching. Have a big ball, John. I'm let's drop this ball and see what our next move is going to love it. Drop it. Sixty six sixty six is raiders of the lost ark. I'm so excited this, the movie I've seen probably the most on this list. This is the movie with the scene I know better than almost any seem, so we're gonna get into it. Okay. Yes, you know a lot of people have seen raiders of the lost ark. So I don't think this is a spoiler if I say that for next week's podcast, want you call in and tell us what else you think might be in those crates in the national archive. At the very end of the movie, we see an old man pushing the arc down an alley full of many, many crates. What else are in those crates? Let us know your thoughts. I like that because this is people know so well, but yet there's that Mr. what's in those crates? The crates does the number to call is seven, four, seven, six, six, six, five, eight, two, four that seven four, seven, six, six, six, five, eight, two, four and tell us what is in the box? What's in the box is the other boxes. So continue the conversation online on our Twitter page at unspoiled or on our Facebook group, which is really just become its own thing. We love it and as we're getting close to our twenty fifth episode, which means we're a quarter of the way there. We would love for you to send us any movies that we talked about in this show that we thought belong on the list. Sometimes we forget them and we're going to be updating our website with all of that information very soon. But you can find that information as is right now at the unspoiled pod dot com. Unschooled pod dot com. And thanks for some of these great research notes from our friend Morgan messin Heimer who is doing this as part of their college study. Yeah, yes. This I, I should give you some of these notes. These are the notes that Morgan is been sending a doing some deep dives. You already have so many great notes, so I'm getting a little extra help from Morgan. Do you know the number of times I've told people, Paul just must stay up all night working. So I do. Busy. I do normally do this from Morgan. The last two have been from Morgan, but I also doing it up doing the work job. I have been continuing press because people listen to the polls like the busiest man in Hollywood right now, kids you get your million TV shows and stuff going on. So the fact that you get so much research done yourself is really nice. I like I like doing all right. We'll see you guys. Everyone's got come here and I'm Laurin lab polyp Thompkin. And we have a brand new podcast called three. The three of us have a lot of fun conversations together. We wanted to show where we aren't playing characters. So we abandon our individual podcast formats to discuss each other, the world and everything in between, although maybe we should have done all of our podcast formats on top of each other simultaneously, like frigates like that. Yeah. Mentally like friends, we are friends in this limited series. We try to figure out what the show should be called. We share weird stories from our childhood. Make fun of each other a lot, which is kind of a bummer. Sometimes. Up for all of us just for one of us, we that one. There are two episodes out right now on the three podcast feed make sure to check out three them wherever you get your podcast or go fuck yourself.

Elfriede Hitchcock Norman Bates Hitchcock Bates motel Anthony Perkins Marion crane Sam vertigo Alfred Hitchcock Amy Marian murder Vince Vaughn Saul Bruce wills Janet Lee Twitter Ginger Rogers Stephen
Google Podcasts Manager is Available Now  PCI  190

Podcast Insider

39:24 min | 1 year ago

Google Podcasts Manager is Available Now PCI 190

"Hey everyone welcome to podcast. Insider joined by my. Who's Mackenzie Benedetti? Mike is Taken a vacation day I do McKenzie. I'm glad Mixon well undertaker's and day. He called he called it a mental wellness day. So you know I can appreciate Mike Take. I was thinking the same exact thing last night. I think I need a mental wellness day but anyway yeah to a certain extent. But Hey we're supposed to have a guest joining us today. We'll see if they show up So maybe the interview will happen later with our with our potential guests or maybe we will have an interview at all but There's a lot to talk about today. So a welcome again to podcasts insane. And if you're not subscribe please do so. It has some news talk. Bus and best practices and stuff about Gwen blueberry potentially interview. And of course some support talk and We're we're hijacking the support piece today. Mackenzie because Mike's not here I'm happy. Let's talk a little bit about what's going on Google. Wow Wow so we. We knew this was coming Tuesday. Nounce their Google podcast manager. Have you had a chance to go over and take a peak? Always seen so far is screen shots that we really shared in Blueberry slack tuned in for a couple of minutes. Storing your Live recording with someone from Google and Greenlee pround Lipson yesterday. Yes so you know. We did a had ninety minutes with Actually was A to our podcast. Thirty minutes was about the we are podcast event happening later in. May and then we did ninety minutes with With two-tee members from Google talking about the podcast manager in the in the podcast apt of course our expansion into. But here's the main thing you've got to know if you're if you haven't heard about this already is to go over to podcast manager. One word DOT GOOGLE DOT com. And you're going to need to know your shows. Rss Feed and there's a little button. Just a start here in it's really Relatively easy to take to use. I mean they've really made it super intuitive in Google away to To use this Once you're there They basically have a He's going to see if I could bring this up. Show it I was not prepared. Here the It's basically says start. Now and all you do is click start now and you enter in see if I can actually bring this up now for those of you. That are watching the livestream today. All you have to do is click the start now. Button at tape giving you and enter the And this says waiting for podcast manager. Well load me into stats. Because I'm not an indie window but you basically enter your rss feed and then it's if you're are assess feed has your email address in it that you're associated logged into Google for g mail and then you submit your show and if those two emails match just instantly get to claim your show and you if they they don't match if your g mail account and the email address it's in your assessment is different. They will send you an email with a code and you just enter the code in the site and you claim your podcast. And what's really really cool is you get to You can add as many people as you want. You can add. Administrators viewers Yeah so Mackenzie we can get you added to the podcast insider account and with with really no no issue and you get to see the stats and what they're really Providing podcasters now and I guess maybe we can talk about it more a little later on exactly what. We'll do that at the end. We'll talk to you about what what you can see from statistics and there's some super value here so but anyway they launched that yesterday or Tuesday and everyone's pretty excited about it. Yeah and Making a big investment podcasting so so Dana J Lewis over the Desi. Podcasts made this Discovery he found that jet pack. That's the plugin for wordpress. That comes from automatic as added Eh podcast player. And we've done a little bit of experiment with it but it only works with the block editor when you use me. What Jeb desma birthplace? Jack has a variety of different plug ins so basically it's or or tools that you can use kind of like this. It's it's a munster of a plug in and it says. Oh he can turn this on. And there's a variety of things that you can use and Jet Pack. It's and we don't wreck don't wreck. I don't recommend people going turning everything on jet pack because it unless you really really need it. Yeah but this player is really not based on Power press or anything like that. It's it's based on an Ara speed so you can An our seat from anywhere which could be cool to put a playlist on your site for any show including your own. So it's pretty pretty awesome. And it's pretty self explanatory in the block editor how to add that player but again they've they've Package that in in jetpack. Don't forget we have a a a player to. We've got a playlist player that she can use with the power press so that's available but anyway we'll have links in the show notes at how to do some how to implement this instructions from it but Mackenzie there's some news out from this American Life. What's going on there so the Pulitzer Prize winners were announced earlier this week and this year for the first time they had audio Had A gory for the Pulitzer and it's American life and the other show was called. Sixteen nineteen project one so good for them and I'm really excited to see audio be added to this as well. It's just really showing how the future of the content that people are going to be in so many right so there's a good article about it Again so this American life and an additional audio based program or some sort of historic I guess sixty zero. They're both podcasts. Who who runs the Sixteen nineteen project? Do we know right off and do not know I. It's about history. It's awesome that both got a Pulitzer Prize. That's a big deal in in anybody's book. I don't know if they get any money but I think they get a medal. Don't there's a pollster price medal? They get some metal plaque or a plaque something like that but honestly I think it's just more of sometimes a potential pickup for the creators careers. Absolutely sure so apple podcasts. Well congratulations them will move on here but Apple. Podcast is now available in twenty more countries. How many truly surprise twenty countries could be included? So you know what's missing at this point. I think that's the better question right and more are there. It's true I don't even I didn't even look and see if they had a list of the Of So yeah. So here's the new countries in Africa camera a Cameroon coattail. Oh my gosh. Devore Dominican Republic of the Congo Gabon. Libya Morocco Rwanda Zambia in Asia Pacific Maldives in Miramar in Europe. Bosnia and Herzegovina Georgia Kosovo Montenegro Serbia in the Middle East Afghanistan but they're excluding apple music and Iraq that's interesting and oceanic a no ru excluding apple music Tonga and Vanity so Tonga and Vanna to our Both a couple of Island nations that are not in. Do they hold top level domains but they also are in real trouble when it comes to To global warming as things go on in the future but anyway so those are the countries that have been added from surprising. Ones on there. Yeah there is and some that I thought would have already. Yeah you know. Been Been Included they've always had access to apple podcast but now they have a specific store for their country. So Apple Describes Apple. Podcast ABACI APPLE PODCASTS. As best place to browse and listen world's largest CALICO podcast now featuring one million shows more than one hundred languages in one hundred and seventy five countries and regions so Hundred seventy five. That's pretty close to the entire list. Someone will have to help us here and tell us how many total countries there are in the world eastern and they get fluctuates depending on civil wars and all kinds of everything. Turn so Fox Fox News. Ninety dealer spotify for their podcasts so that was announced. I guess they're allowing their shows to be on there. Maybe there's some sort of deleo going on their money. Wise we don't know truly was a little surprised to see to like those two companies are a tad different types of content that they share a lot of the time so well you know. There's a lot happening. It's amazing how much information how much Mainstream media content is not on spotify. There's a lock it isn't you know so there's definitely a nurse into getting a new version of that in there. So anybody show express will be online may thirteenth to fourteenth. We would have been in Vegas. You know that already been done. We like two or three weeks ago. Yeah Yeah We. We'd been we'd been and recovering from Vegas doing follow up so the N. B. New York show is GonNa be the same week as the now. Rescheduled podcast. Boom it which we didn't get in the show notes here but this was announced early this morning morning. Yeah the podcast is moving their dates. So it's GonNa be interesting because she podcast is if if these events happen in person. She podcast scheduled October fifteen to eighteen. And then podcast movement got moved. October nineteenth twenty-second the. Nb New York. Show is October twenty one twenty two any event. That may not happen. I would almost bet the New York show may not but they might just do like shortened online version of it. Yeah but Podcast movement hedge and said okay. This is a really bad as late as we could go. They they are at risk they to a non refundable deposit with their with their venue. And it's a big number very very big number so If they have to cancel this this could put Podcast movement in really dire dire dire financial straits from A. It's it's a big number for their deposit. So this is what's happened to a lot of shows and most shows don't cover any of this and insurance so let's just hope that A podcast movement can can pull this off and and have a live event in October in the things change week by week. We'll see. Yeah for sure I mean. I have a wedding on October. I don't know who actually going to be it or not. I think at that time. They'll have definitely have weddings going I I don't know I guess I it's it's everything changes week tweet country. Start to open up. We're GONNA know the next couple of weeks if this was a good strategy for some of those states or not. We'll watch but only tiny I'll tell is just second way. We're all going to have to. Yeah we'll see. Hopefully there is no second way. So let's talk a so former guest on podcast Gordon Fire. Mark is doing a facebook live. Qna on Friday answering your legal podcasting question. So glad to see Gordon be an ONS. If you've got some legal questions on podcasting and you listen to the show before the event our or you'll be able to catch it on On replay. So that's kind of the news. We've got the begins. You WanNa talk about our best practice topic today. Yeah for sure. So speaking of continuing to do live events or virtual or whatever consistency in doing. Your podcast is pretty important especially right now so in a dive into that. But just saying that you're part of people's lives Even though all of our routines of changed we've panel adjusted at this point so putting things to say about that. Well you know I think. The host space is settling down into a new normal You know from our perspective. The some networks are announcing steep declines and listenership. But I've contended the reason. We have not seen those same drops it just because blueberry customers are a little more most of them have their own sites their own brands. They're building their businesses. They're you know they have a little more a tighter. Focus and it's not. I wouldn't say we have plenty. Folks are just doing shows for a hobby and fun and and that doesn't change anything. But I truly believe and the best case I can really give you and it goes back A number of years is that I did not announce I was taking time off for my show. I didn't announce it was taken ten days vacation. Or whatever and My audience was like where are you? Did You die. Something happened Literally are you sick? Is there something we can help? You did did one of us make you mad. And so the audience Build you into their daily lives so I think not only is consistency is important is important but it's also very important to give them an update. If you're going to change something because I think it's did you think they deserve that. So yeah so nice to have that communication instead of just the dropoff even if you just put out a short episode that says hey ain't gonNA begun or release in old episode or something like that and then just like a tweet or something that says like Navy couple days. Here's rerun I've always. I've always said to. There's been a few times during the Because I've scheduled pretty tightly on this show and the other shows I do. There's been a few times. We're just been like Monday night or so I'm getting rated. I'm just like I'm not feeling that I'm tired. I'm grumpy and that's going to no matter what you can do jumping jacks and drink three red balls you can. You can try to get your Mojo back but sometimes it's just better to push the Mike back but at the same time if you don't tell the audience then it so you can't do that on a regular basis so the consistency is important and if we know next week you're going to take a week off on your on your previous show just a hand when take off. Here's a couple of podcast. Always GIVE PEOPLE. A couple podcasts. I think they should go. Listen to to substitute the time. Yeah that's a good idea suggests something else. Yeah suggest a friend's podcast or something. I'm listened to and And didn't just remind him I'll be back. I'll be back for money. Don't replace me nothing wrong with saying hey look good. Madison out. Yeah and you know. And it's there's always a little horse trading goes on. I think podcasters need to do that. Moore's talk about shows that they love because it's kind of this Karma thing it all comes back to you right so right and you know those people that listen. That new show will continue to do stuff like that. It's not a competition in that sense. It's just get information happy. It is so but Anyway just keep consistent folks with your podcast. I think that's the the most important part. So let's talk a little bit about Blueberry News We thought a point to point ten was going to be our last update on power press. But it's eight point. Two point eleven is our last update before eight point three and you and I got to see a point three. Oh my goodness it's going to be a major change isn't it? Yeah and it's a major that particularly. I am excited to see because I I know our press. I do not have the loan for right right. We all we've all been knowing long in the tooth. So Mackenzie is saying is. She hates her current. Ui which you know. We understand that power press become you know we kept adding and adding and adding features and this is like know. Where do you put this? Stick that or do you shove this. You know so. We have went through on power eight point three and you know I. I haven't seen everything then. We'll get to Beta test it so if you want to. Beta test. Eight point. Three is sending email to support a blueberry dot com. We all get to shake it down together and I wanNA say maybe people who haven't done our press. Beta testing in the past to actually give this one a try because this one is a significant upgrade. Why so you don't have to be reliant on understanding what it already does. Oh it's it's not a it's a it is a gutting of the. It has been gutted and I think what you're going to see here is eight point three. If you're when you win you get power. Press eight point three. The it is a sign of things to come with the pod yesterday. Boorda BLUEBERRY DOT COM The same UI designer is. Is You know so what we're going. I'm not saying we're going for a mirrored protest because it can't be but you're there isn't to be. This nice cohesive look and I think that those of you that love power press already. You'RE GONNA love it more But we are I guess for better words a rearranging the stack cleaning up the it just it just needed like a like we we. We took us a paint stripper and stripped off all the paint repainted and then drew new lines. I guess that's the best way to say it. I feel like we stripped off a lot of the edges tacky workable on the inside. So we'll see if you guys love it or hate it. I'm hoping you're going to love it. It is the biggest. I mean this is going to be the biggest Change we obviously changed the episode box and it took us a few refinements to get that right. I expect with eight point three. We're going to get some feedback in real. Probably make some adjustments with eight point. Three's you I x over time. We're GONNA find stuff you're gonNA find stuff that we didn't find and But if you've got to help us out with those early days beyond the Beta testers so couple of weeks before ready to go to Beta probably a couple of weeks and Beta. Then maybe we'll kick it loose and see if the if the make sure that the world doesn't burn down but that's kind of kind of the goal here so this is normally we would bring in Arbogast and our guest was going to be. Maybe we'll be able to record this later. I don't know so But it was supposed to be ever Gonzalez. We're GONNA talk about the event that's happening may thirteenth and through the fifteenth. That's next week. It's it's a virtual event and definitely going to be in person. But yeah and what is first of all? What is their website is out liar. Podcast or outlier best. Outlier podcast festival. Yes it's outlier POD FEST DOT COM. So here's you know really what you've got an opportunity here folks is to really Have a great training. I'm with These presenters I. I'm not gonNA read. Who's presenting but I'm going to read some of the topics of some of the sessions. Why podcasts better than a website for marketing. Your Business Practice am I disagree with that Practical ways to promote your podcast with a video. How to Book Television and media. That's something I've always says. Part of Social Media Plan. What are you waiting for? Just get started using live streaming to grow your podcast audience. Build your sponsorship. That can get paid to podcasts. How to get a text from your podcast to increase impact more from the Mike podcast marketing. Twenty twenty think like a journalist to grow your audience how to become a friend or enemy of the PODCAST press. Oh that's interesting. Yeah that's from Kevin Goldberg founder of discover pods. That should be an interesting to listen to immigration. Stories Ten K. Dollar Day. Okay I'll be presenting and we actually decided this morning that tells you how far in advance we plan The title of my session. I believe is going to be sixteen years podcasting and strategies to succeed today the tricks to writing killer. Dialogue lessons learned from creating a podcast network. Five tiers of audience groups the secrets of the listener acquisition flow using Lincoln. To grow your podcast. How to get your guests to say yes Another one that says it connecting the dots how to respond to. What do you do as a multi passionate enterpreneur how to use a podcast? Dry podcast growth. That's be by Pat Flynn. I believe it's going to be says on autopilot. So does that mean. He's providing pre recorded thing. That kind of sounds like that five websites must have for podcasters and then on the final day how to walk into your. Wi with power ten key steps creating killer brand creator's guide to podcasting and great sturdy telling how to bring a community together making the most of your marketing automation The power micro vents newsletters and how leverage your content to make your podcast more discoverable. So that's three days of firehose the lineup but a lot of them I think are going to be prerecorded so probably help move the day-long so it's it is I'm GonNa. Hopefully I'm presenting live. I hope so I don't know So if you WANNA get access to all three fifteen So the all access pass. There's different prices so I think they also introduce not too long ago. A pay what you can well. So there's options from five to fifty dollars to forty nine dollars. Yeah so that's Cool pay-what-you-can that sling given the time that we're in and that people might be trying to do a podcast because you know they're at home not a choice for them right now. That's a really great option. So five bucks. That's that's the lowest plan. All the way to fifty so again I will also mention here is a wave. Disclosure Blueberry is one of the title sponsors for the event and this was originally supposed to be in our backyard. Yeah in Columbus Ohio where? I am so bummed when I get to do it in person but I happy to see that it's still going virtual so anyway. That's the that's the that's the deleo on the outlier. Podcast again me thirteenth through fifteenth. And I guess they go from going to look at what times they start at ten a. m. to a time in the after so it's all they go all the way up to seven thirty. So that's that's a pile. Yeah but you know go in and out the best sure Yup and sneak in when he can take a break but definitely put Me When I'm doing mine is on the first session on May fourteenth. Ah Ten. Atm'S IF YOU WANNA tune in for that all right so let's talk a little bit about. Mike says give some time on Google podcast manager. We're still checking it out so let me just explain what they're providing in. Koogle podcast manager. They're giving you number plays. They're giving you the minutes played. You can set date ranges and it goes all the way back three hundred sixty five days all time. He can look months. You can look at custom range marks. You can Observe which I use the for any other. You can export. There's a CSV to be able to do that. There is It shows you. The average amount of time played so as an example. Our interview Mike and I I'm looking into new media show Podcast basis on fire is the name of the episode and fifty. Six percent of the people listened to at least half so are they made to fifty six percent of the way before they dropped out. They show this line chart on When people drop out then you can actually look at his specific episode any connection. And it's really really cool Let's see if I can show you. Mackenzie MS at the screen has an updated. So the show you when people leave in spike you can actually see what happens with your show when they're in. This is on the the Apple PODCAST APP Pro Browser on tablets. If you use the Apple. Podcast APP. So it's really not excuse me Google podcast APP. It's it's really looking at the Google podcast APP specifically so you're not gonNA see information here from overcast or pocket cast Again if they looked on your if they viewed your listen your to your show on chrome browser by searching for it and playing that way or in the Google podcast section so this kind of where the limited data is. I think a lot of people are going to be confused. Say Oh new media show we don't have a a great Not Great Stats Over the last seven days we've had forty four plays with One thousand six hundred sixty minutes played which is kind of a weird statistic but you know but they do show us You know that that lifeline of how long people are listening to those shows so it gets pretty cool data in you know and I think the thing I really kind of our advance stats that we have where we're giving you Essentially kind of the same thing but from a log file standpoint Across the board and all the vices. You can see where people drop out so ver you know. Robin is one of our shows. At twenty three minutes we lost a bunch of people and then at thirty nine minutes lost a few more people and then we kept everyone through the rest of the show but it is interesting to see it can make allow you to plan a little bit. Well Nice to see because like the stats that we provide gives the overview of your entire show for all of the places that people are listening but now it kind of feels like Apple Has Symphony. Spotify has information now. Google finally does as well so we're collecting all of that but now people can finally go into these three main sources of where people are listening and get those platforms detailed information as well and I think the best of both worlds. I think the best thing to remember here too. Is that what we're really seeing at this? Point is the Google podcast specific play data and and they're able to collect that and be able to give us data that this drop off data. You know we kind of have a way to see that in a global sense and you know it's it's percentage back you know because when podcast actively played versus download they played they chunk the media out in pieces on mobile devices. So rail will see when someone hits. Stop with any you know. Eight nine ten percent but Google has much more linear the basically know when someone press stopped or when they left specifically so it's a it is a good insight into Into your podcast. So you'll be able to see why people are leaving your show because it it also does. I can click. I think this is the most important part I can. Click on this section and it jumps the player to that. I can hear I can go back and forth and finder file is no it just jumps to that place in audio foul. You can learn. Okay why did someone leave here because of something someone said or did they just leave because they ran out of time? Was there something you did? Piss an audience member off to leave. I think that's really valuable. Yeah it is in. Maybe you know it again. We always use the negative. But you know maybe. The baby was crying or something and they had to leave. They're got to work. Or whatever you know see where a spike was of when people jumped in or something like that and you can see. Oh what did we do correct? So one of the spices at twenty three minutes and are one of the drop spikes at twenty three minutes. So maybe that was someone on their commute The second point was amazingly at about forty minutes so commute to work commute home. Of course. No one's meeting right now. So maybe it wasn't a commute but it was interesting lunch hour. Yeah it's interesting. It fell at twenty and forty as ha ha. That's kind of you know it's kind of one of those things I can. You Go You know could have been some kind of ingrained in their commute. Then that's kind of also our attention span. Yeah potentially so anyway. So it's Google podcast manner podcast manager dot Google dot com claim. Your shows if you have a show that is brand new. You can actually submit on this. It doesn't say you can but you can submit your show on the same claim form and they will pick it up there. Say Take Two or three days for it to start showing up so you can kinda kick start your listing and also some people are finding that Google is indexing. The wrong podcast speed. And if they're not using your master feed you can tell them. Hey this is the wrong. Feed for my show. Please use the speed which I found to be very very curious in itself as well so did have a question since Google really picks up shows based on. Seo like their search. I'm just being able to find the show and not submitting. How does that factor into this? Because you're essentially saying. This is my arm speed. But what if people now want to submit their shows directly into Google to make sure that they have already instead of just relying on they? Should it myself doing because otherwise you have to wait a couple weeks for Google to pick you up so this is going to help people again. I WANNA do that. Yeah they can write on this form against him in a new show and again they say two or three days now. Remember you have to have an episode in there and it's really kind of awesome. Because see if I can do it here without let me do a new incognito window and paste that in there and see if I can show this I gotta change a setting here for those of you watching Chrome Okay so. Let's go to this one there. We go so. Let me bring this back to you. So I'm not signed in I am not signed into Google. I'm using the incognito so when I click start now and come on now so it wants me sign into Google so you have to sign into Google before he can do this. You do have to have a An account with them so. I really can't demonstrate. Well maybe I can this year. I can add a show of course apple account spotify go. Let's go now I can show. I'm just being dumb here because I've already got some shows added so let me change the setting again. Oh you're complaining. I think right. So here's the the form and let's just grab Let let me grab a show on my site. That has not been claimed. Because it's it's it's claimed it's just already gonNA jump in so I'm GonNa go grab one of my Over to deny combined load up each. I don't know why everything's being so slow. This morning had come. It's it's you can tell that I was a one hundred percent prepared this morning to to do this Do this demo just says waiting all right. I've got this can load that. No that was weird. All right let me go over and grab this. Let me go grab okay. Got One now on your site four five. So let's go back to this page and I'll go ahead and paste in show. This is the gadget professor. And it then shows you a preview of what you're listing looks like it shows your album art title and This is the actual video version of this show so actually showed up so I go next step and it shows the email address it found in the process speed and then it says hey you're logged in as Geeked News Jima Dot Com. So we can't verify you but if you have if you're logged into your email account and I was done being and I was a gadget presser gmail.com. It would just basically say we verified who you are and claim your show otherwise if I send a code now don will get a email that basically says. Hey Todd at Gig News. Gmail.com is trying to get access to your listing on Google. Podcast manager. If you agree to that send him the code or in the system itself when you're logged in you can actually add someone again him as a viewer editor Gordon Administrator. Yeah it's really cool and I don't know what an editor does. Because there's really nothing on this page you can edit. And of course she can like hide certain codes. Maybe maybe something we can. Yeah we can play around And you can download the CSV file and again. It shows you which you know what feed. It's using to load the show and everything else so yeah they've done a good job on this. They they had a bunch of podcasters giving feedback and they actually Google said. Thank you to all of the the folks that did Beta testing out there so again. Podcast manager at Google DOT COM and I think that's about it for for today. Mackenzie any any closing thoughts. Stow thanks for listening. Thanks for joining us live. Yeah absolutely and I know we had a couple of places to string was going up and we definitely want. Thank you but again if you WANNA be on the show. It's real easy. It's Todd Mike or Mackenzie at blueberry dot com. And we'd be happy to talk to you about your podcast in your story or an event you have coming up. It doesn't have to be limited talking about your podcast Just let us know and we'll get you scheduled to be interviewed Plenty of opportunity right here to be at the top of the heap but we want everyone for listening to the new media. Show today if you skews me to podcasts. Insider too many shows podcasts insider dot com and and subscribed the shell you find a subscribe link right in the sidebar but We'll zero exciting. Thanks for being here I by.

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Jaws 3-D (1983) | Joe Alves

Around the World in 80s Movies

29:04 min | 1 year ago

Jaws 3-D (1983) | Joe Alves

"I welcome to around the world in eighty s movies. My name is Vince Leo is the author of the film. Review website quips dot net I. Bet you to check out over four thousand of my written reviews. You read anytime. Webster Dot net is where to go Q.. WIP S., e., R.. Dot Net while you're there I. DO encourage you to also click the link. Link for my other podcast that covers more recent movies. It's called the film review podcast. You can find the link to that at that website. Stir Dot net today I'm going to be getting into the third of a four part series looking at the jaws, films of the nineteen seventies and eighties. Of course, this is a show mostly about the nineteen eighties and. And we're getting into the first of the jaws films that take place in the nineteen eighties from nine, hundred, eighty, three I'm talking about jaws three, or you can call it by its the actual title of Jaws Three d because it was released in three D in One thousand, nine, hundred three. It's a PG rated film does have some Gore sensuality and language the? The runtime is an hour and thirty eight minutes. The cast of stars include Dennis Quaid. BESS Armstrong Louis. Gossett Junior Simon mccorkell. John Putsch and Leah Thompson Joe Als is the director. The screenplay credited to Carl Gottlieb Richard Matheson and Michael Caine not that Michael Caine not the one that appears in jaws the revenge. This screenwriters last name is spelled. K. A. N. E.. We start back in the beginning of Nineteen seventy-nine Comedian Chevy. Chase. He made a joke to a couple of junior exacts at universal pictures. He joked that they should combined their two biggest recent successes of nineteen seventy-eight, and make a sequel to both of them called jaws meets animal house now while that was initially a Joke Mountain Daniels thought that actually might be a good idea so they. They casually mentioned it to their boss Universal's president Ned Tannen and the attendant thought that was kind of an intriguing ideas, so he thought he should pass it along to jaws, producers, Richard Panik and David Brown, and they immediately loved it. They thought this was a great idea because they were stuck on what to do next without Roy Scheider wanting to appear in any other jaws, movies and And without wanting to regurgitate the same formula over and over now while at lunch with National Lampoon's publisher, he had just started turning into a movie producer Matty Simmons David Brown pitched. The idea jaws meets. Animal House Simmons immediate response to this idea was I hate it and the reason why he hated. It is because he already had a follow up to animal house in his mind it. It was going to be set six years later. He did not want to screw up his franchise. Polluting it with another franchise round explained that the film this Jaws Animal House. Idea it didn't really need to tie in directly with the characters or the story from Animal House, or even Josh for that matter. It just needed to be a jaws film in comedic style of National Lampoon. Lampoon so Simmons, he started riffing. He played along. He thought you know. What would a jaws three be like? In the hands of National Lampoon? He entitled it on the spot, jaws, three people, zero or people nothing, but it's spelled with a numeral zero Simons envisioned this kind of Meta comedy about this vengeful shark who goes out hunting and killing these movie makers who are trying to make? Make another entry in jaws. He could have Peter Benchley eaten by a shark in swimming pool for the opening scene and Steven Spielberg he could get different body parts bitten off of him throughout the movie, the Real Life Studio heads could come in, and they can play the heavies, and the actors in the writers could be the good guys, and by the end of all of this. This riffing this conversation David. Brown of course found it all hilarious Simmons. He actually ended up loving his own idea that he had hated an hour before and Simon said that he would work out the details from the business side, and they left it at that flash forward two months later, universal now publicly announced their next big comedy. Jaws, three people nothing. Simmons would right the initial treatment. Treatment for this film, and he would also be the producer Zanuck and Brown would be the executive producers and national. Lampoon's editors John Hughes that John this time the John Hughes that created all of those great teen comedies of the nineteen eighties and also Todd Carol. They would both provide the script John Dante he would get the nod to direct what promised to be his first studio. And they all bounced all of these Wacky Zany ideas off the wall. They throw them all in there. In the script. Including this revelation that the sharks are actually aliens in disguise. I mean this was a real kitchen sink approach to making a comedy for their star. Simmons cast comedian Roger Bumps now. If that name sounds familiar to you, you must be a fan. Fan of spongebob squarepants because today he voices squidward tentacles on that show. Simmons at that time felt that bump us. Who was pretty much unknown? He would become the next big star. The biggest star of the nineteen eighties in the world of comedy he was set to skyrocket Stephen. I would appear as a leading man who had let himself go. They approached Mary. Mary at Hartley about a role that she could play as a studio executive, but she turned it down now at a preview screening of Blake words ten at universal Siemens became enamored of Bo, Derek in that film, and he approached her after the film and offered her the lead actress role in this jaws, three film, and within two days she came back to. To him and she agreed she would do it, so he had his leading lady set a slew of Cameo appearances would also be in the film Mel Brooks Jonathan Winters Mickey Rooney as well as those who were involved in the making of jaws. They hoped MCA President Sid Sheinberg his wife. Lorraine Gary and Richard Dreyfuss and and maybe more if they could get. Get them now at this point. It all seemed like this was going to be. An absolute can't miss effort. I mean this was a film that would be the third in the top franchise. Time jaws the second film for National Lampoon Right after the phenomenal breakthrough that was animal house, and this would also be Bo Derek's next film after becoming an overnight sensation with. With ten. This was going to be a hundred million dollar picture. They all felt the studio was very excited. As well they had locations scouted. They started reconditioning all of the sharks that were news from jaws to appear in this film in all, told universal plunk down about two or three million dollars in the pre development phase before even anything started filming Richard. Richard Zanu felt that the first script that he'd read from. Hughes and Carol was absolutely Hilarious, but he did question. There need to go for R. Rated Humor. He thought that this should be like the jaws films. PG rated in order to attract the biggest audience. The studio was also less enthused for their own reasons. They thought that the writers were making fun. Fun of the very people who may jaws much more so than they were actually spoofing the killer shark genre, which is what they thought that this film was going to be about an after five more passes, and trying to tone down this original script to make a PG rated version while also reducing obvious connections to real life people that are in the business. It also lost a lot of its original flavor, and it seemed like it was going to be a lousy marriage fraught with a lot of creative differences, overall so universal unfortunately nixed it even after all of their investment years later. Matty, Simmons he had heard that the reason why universal nixed it was because Steven Spielberg was adamantly opposed to jaws, becoming a spoof, and he felt the canceled it because they didn't want him to leave them in protest, but at the time Simmons was obviously incensed, he had wasted so much time about a year and a half of his time putting it all together only to end up with nothing, so he wanted immediately out of. of his universal contract, so he could shop this idea to another studio willing to pay the turnaround costs and universal consented on the stipulation that whatever film that Simmons and whatever studio he took it to made, they could not have a shark or any other kind of water creature in it. It had to be absolutely divorced from Jaws Zanuck and Brown the also left universal, not in protest. Necessarily they were at the end of their contract. They were now free to move to Twentieth Century Fox. They told universal that they were available as consultants. If they decided to make another jaws film in the future now by nineteen eighty overseas theatre owners began to demand of. Of Universal that they put out another jaws movie because they were experienced, high audience demand, they were always asked. When's the next jaws coming out I? Keep hearing about it. When is it coming out? And with their theatrical film that they had been working on for so long dead in the water, universal contemplated, making a quickie TV film that they could release in the United States on television, but the actually in other parts of the world, so Alan Landsberg productions. They were the makers of such TV Fares. The TV shows that's incredible and also Gimme a break and many others. They bought out the rights from ZANUCK and Brown to make their jaws project four TV. TV with Universal Buying International Distribution Rights Gordon, true blood he was known for making a made for TV nature runamuck films for Landsberg. He came up with this initial premise. He contemplated making the next jaws at disaster movie. It would have the title of Jaws Eighty, one that was kind of like the airport films that had the year after the title of airport and true blood spent several months working out this concept of a shark that swims upstream and ends up in a lake, and it causes a lot of deadly problems for the local fishers and other people who inhabit the lake, and they would have to send in hunters to route the dangerous shark out. Like the idea, he met with mill Stewart and slotted him as possible director after he had his stint making the white lions for Landsberg and also to star. At least one of the main stars would be Mickey Rooney who had done Landsberg award winning TV film called Bill But, true bled script really did not Garner. universals enthusiasm, so landsberg brought in a bigger gun, veteran, novelist and screenwriter. Richard Matheson, Matheson coincidentally had worked on the fringes of jaws. He had worked with jaws. JAWS director Steven Spielberg for his early made for TV film called dual and Jaws twos. Director Shannon Shark for somewhere in time he did the script based off of his own novel called Bid Time Return Matheson was not shown, or he really didn't have any direct knowledge of true blood script. He didn't even know it existed. He received only Landsberg story outline of this shark in a lagoon and went with that premise for his own script, the delays though in personnel and the. The changes made did draw the attention of the executives at MCA. which were the parent company universal? Although universal was not producing jaws three, they did intend to distribute it, and they did not want a sub-standard product, so verna fields universal's vice president, and also the editor for the original jaws, she told Joe Alves who was the production designer on the first two films and the second unit director on jaws to. She told him to go. Find out what's going on and see. See if he could steer things in the right direction, Alves immediately saw significant problems Landsberg told him that they did not need mechanical shark for their film because they could use stock footage from that's incredible and mixed out with new footage using these half scale, human dummies filled with chum that the smaller sharks would eat. They would look bigger though because the dummies were smaller, Alves knew that this was just never going to fly with audiences. It would probably be absolutely laughable. Passed on the chance to produce the film, but he did offer to help matheson scout locations because he wanted them to avoid an expensive and prolonged shoot like the experience with the first two films. Alves recommended that they use a large tank to shoot aquatic scenes. That would be less expensive and they can control their environment much more. They visited several aquariums and marine parks for their ideas and the one thing that really popped out to Alves. Matheson was this immersive underwater exhibit that they saw at Marineland of Florida. It featured this twenty three minute seventy millimeter. Documentary called seadream and that was made by Murray Lerner now for a tech head like Alves, this film was a revelation, and the gear started spinning in his mind that they might actually be able to produce the same effect in movie theaters within the context of a jaws movie, and this film also inspired the aquatic theme park idea because this would be a natural place where they could have control of the shark and the shooting locations something that made the prior two. Runway over schedule and over budget, and it would also be able to use a freshwater tank to avoid the corrosive aspects of the saltwater that kept ruining the use of mechanical shark, so Alves drew up this concept of a shark coming out of the screen at the audience jaws, three d, he showed this art concept to Landsberg and then to Sid Sheinberg. They were captivated after MCA's other head. Lew Wasserman took a look. Look Landsberg sent the script to Murray. Lerner to see if he would be interested in helping out with the making of the next jaws movie in Three D as he did for seadream, as the already had an art director assigned to the film learner, he really didn't want any involvement so Wasserman and Landsberg then urged Joe, Alves control and direct whatever he had in his mind, not for television, but for theaters in the. The US. This was going to be an event film now with Alves in place as director Landsberg phoned up producer Rupert hit SIG to work as the line producer Hitech wanted no part of it. Initially, he felt that the franchise had run its course, and also mentioned that he had absolutely no knowledge of three D, a film, making process, which is kind of what Landsberg said. He wanted for this role because while Alves. Alves would concentrate on the technical aspects hits. It could make sure that it stayed on track as a narrative movie after Hick, met with Alves Landsberg. He actually grew excited about the prospects and he signed on board eagerly meanwhile universal executives they deem that the script by Matheson was full of a lot of problems. Mathieson story did not tie in at all with the first two jaws, films and Sid Sheinberg insisted that. That the main character had to be related, it should be Mike Brody. The eldest son of chief brody and he wanted to also somehow bring in Sean Brody into the story as well Matheson thought that this was absolutely ridiculous, because the burden family was going to experience another shark problem in a completely different part of the country, and even more so universal also requested on top of that that they used the same shark. Shark from jaws to as the main nemesis, all burnt up, but still alive, somehow even though we saw it get electrocuted jaws to Matheson asserted that audiences would just absolutely laugh at this twist so universal at least wisely backed off of that idea, anyway on top of this Landsberg also asked Mathieson to write in a role, a big role specifically for his friend. Mickey Rooney Asset thank you for his emmy and Golden. Golden Globe winning performance in the TV movie bill, which also won four Landsberg a Golden Globe for best TV film. Matheson wrote in Mickey's part as this clown who entertained the crowd at the water park? This was a role that he ended up taking back out. Though because Mickey, Rooney soon became unavailable thankfully I. Guess for Matheson however. Rooney's coast are in Bill Dennis Quaid. He was given the lead role of Mike Brody. Brody Quaid later would call jaws three the worst experience of his life. You also claimed that he was sky high on cocaine, throughout every seeing that he shot now as for the cast that he brought in Alves, he wanted to train the actors to handle the underwater drama. He didn't WANNA use stunt people because he planned to have some actual dramatic things happen while they were under the water so Dennis Quaid was. WAS TRAINED TO LEARN TO SCUBA DIVE in. He was also shown how to ride a Jetski. Armstrong was trained to ride on the backs of Wales and communicate with Dolphins, and in the case of Lia Thomson. She would learn how to water ski, and but not only just water ski, but do it in a pyramid formation with with other women standing on each other's shoulders. Lee Thompson was cast here. This was actually her. Her film debut. She was discovered from a Burger King commercial by the casting director, and she beat out the likes of Jennifer Jason Leigh, who is hot from fast times at Ridgemont high at the time Dennis Quaid by the way at that time he was married to actress PJ souls during the production of jaws, three began a romantic relationship with Leah Thompson and he went through a divorce with PJ souls, and then He. He and Thompson became engaged although they were never married. They finally called. It quits in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty seven, but Simon mccorkell jail known for some people from the nineteen eighties as the guy who started mammal. He got the role of the shark. Hunter Fish Rice after David Warner and Peter Firth turned it down as for Roy Scheider. Why is he not in this film while he wasn't even asked actually stated. Stated in an interview sometime later that not even Memphis Sophocles could have gotten him to do another jaws film. He went so far as to take the job in blue thunder to make sure that he was not going to be available. At the time, they were scheduled to shoot jaws three. He didn't want any part of it. Any excuse was reached for now after Matheson brought in the brody boys to script Alves. Alves and hits egg. They felt that the revised script still needed some more work safely brought in my cane once again, not the actor, the screenwriter to spruce up the dialogue, and to give it more of a comedic edge, but that script still fell short. They wanted the characters to be relatable, and there's situations to be fun, so they hired once again coming in to save the day Carl Gottlieb. He wrote the final. Final scripts for both of the prior jaws films they wanted him to bring in Levity, and those character touches like the first two films had because at that time they had already cast the movie Gottlieb got to know the actors and their personalities, and what made them tick, so he was able to use that knowledge to work character touches into the script that they could handle now as far as what the final. Final script that godly produced we see in Joss the sons of Sherif Brody. They are now in Florida elder son Mike. He's completing this two year construction project for this underwater structure that he's building in the lagoon at seaworld that people could walk in. There's going to be a restaurant and everything all under the water, and all of these fish are going to be all around them. Mike's younger brother Sean played by John. John Putsch, he's visiting from College Sean. Unlike Mike, he suffers from aqua phobia, he doesn't want to get in the water, and that's brought about from his harrowing near death. Experiences that we witnessed from the first two jobs films, and he has reason to fear here. He doesn't know what though at the beginning, a young great white shark enters into the lagoon through the filtration system and up ends the pre opening day. And when one of the crew ends up, getting viciously chomped. It appears that this might actually not have done. A larger shark would have had to have been responsible, and they shudder to realize that the sharks mother, a massive thirty five foot long great white has also passed into the park, hungry for the taste of human flesh hand, also for the taste of underwater seaworld structures, a lot more to this story than that, but like I say for these jaws sequels you don't. Don't go into the sequels looking for more than just a basic premise now alves brought in some pretty unique ideas for how to shoot the shark, including this point of view, angle this shot from inside the shark's mouth. You're inside the shark. Looking out of its mouth. He originally developed that idea for a scene that he wanted to use the original jaws where. Where the Shark Attacks Matt Hooper in a cage, but Spielberg felt at that time that it distracted instead of enhanced the horror for that scene they built this one point. Six Million Gallon tank at the seaworld marine life theme park in Orlando Florida, and because Orlando is sixty miles inland. Obviously, a shark is not gonNA be able to get in there, but you know. Know through movie it's somehow ends up being on the shore, so they had some additional shooting to take place at the Sea World Park in San Diego as well as the Florida keys to use for some of the water skiing scenes now, though the unpredictability of the weather in the ocean traffic, we're no longer issues as well as the saltwater to the sharks. The shoot would be far from easy for ourselves. Because of the Three D. Process The era vision, three d process this kind of this new state of the art at least at that time, split Lynn system that allow them to use one camera instead of two. It was not quite ready to go, so they brought in Chris Khandan, who was in charge of Stereo Vision? He would come in for the first couple of weeks of shooting using the Stereo Vision Technique, but most of those result ended up being unusable in house mine, so the reflects cameras. Once he did arrive. They had to reshoot. But they were also very challenging to use required extensive pre planning for each specific shot, and at fifteen million dollars budget. This would end up becoming the most expensive three D film May to that date now unlike the prior films, there were not any delays due to a malfunctioning mechanical shark in jaws three, they made the sharks using the chassis from one of the sharks from just two and his new shark, which was designed by Roy Arbogast. It had more flexibility in its movement and its skin, and had articulation in its gills, and it's is would roll back as a real shark does when it bites into something. And there was also another shark used to represent its fin from above the water, and also for its tail section, so they really had everything ready to go. That went like clockwork, one of the few things really now once. Once it was all said and done once he had completed. The film jaws three rolled out without any advance screenings for the public or for critics. They wanted to avoid bad press because they knew that they had a film that probably was going to be derided. So the three D. Gimmick it did interest audiences enough, and it set a box office record on its opening weekend for the big. Big Film made by universal to date. It actually lingered around long enough despite bad word of mouth to generate profit raked in about three times, its shooting budget at about forty five million dollars, and maybe five times, if you factor in the additional thirty two million dollars and took overseas, but critics were far from behind when they did see the final film. They proclaim jaws three D as one of. Of the worst films of Nineteen, eighty-three was nominated for five golden. Raspberry awards those razzies. Worst picture were screenplay Joe Alves for worst director Lou Gossett junior for worst supporting actor that was actually the same year he had won an Oscar for an officer and a gentleman so pretty mixed results there and the two dolphins that are in this film also got nominated Cindy Sandy for worst new stars. So pretty much basted film by the critics, even if it turned a modest profit I, think what made the original jaws effective was the vision and the talent of Steven Spielberg, Spielberg he utilized a lot of his great skills, his eye for cinema, and he created one of the best horror adventure films of all time now just you. It was a considerable step down, and that's mostly because director Geno Swarak. He didn't really have a lot of time. Maybe he didn't have the talent either to construct anything beyond a workable film now with just three Joe Alves. This was. was his first actual direct to`real effort, even though he was second unit director, the previous film, the lack of experience really does show here. He does lack the experience built adequate tension or terror, or even engaging presentation, the charge attacks themselves lack suspense. They're replaced here by cheap attempts at shock and Gore and Joe Alves just did not understand that the terror of a shark attack comes from what you cannot see much more so than what you can. Because the sharks face is featured quite prominently whenever it makes an appearance, and the scares are diminished by the familiarity not. Not only would this be Alves debut as a director, it would also be his final credit. In that regard. He was a phenomenal production designer, but as a director he just could not cut it as it shows here in just three and I think what makes jaws three so unpalatable for so many people is that it really does lack a sense of style scenes here lumber. They don't have a lot of visual panache. There aren't a lot of moments of general interest in what's going on. It merely establishes a lot of Finley defined characters and the premise all of. Of this is interspersed by random acts of mayhem that we don't really care that much about because all of these characters are very cartoonish, the only unique visual elements come from the odd presentation here and that's because Josh was a three D. movie when it was released in theaters. So you know you have a lot of moments when things shoot ad or float by the camera, a naturally, these things might seem momentarily cool if you were watching that with three d glasses on and the movie theater, but if you're watching it today, you're probably watching it as Tutti movie. And that will lead to a lot of awkward weird moments. That will take you out of the story. The Three D. process also diminish the picture quality of the film because Josh Three when you watch it into. It's obviously not as eye-popping as the other jaws efforts. It's really marred by this murky presentation. Out of focus on the edges, excessive grain, dim lighting, unnatural colors I mean this is really an ugly and unappealing movie to watch in many ways, so even from an aesthetic standpoint, it falls short. Even the sound components of the film are Pretty Substandard. Gone is the classic John Williams score I mean it used a little bit here and there, but it's replaced mostly by this unmemorable one by TV, composer Alan Parker. This was his first ever film work. None of the music really evokes a sense of terror or dread or suspense in the slightest and compounding this the sound effects are just as out of place. They've now added this low pitched snarl to the shark. That would seem more. More appropriate for T., rex or brontosaurus instead of this fish, because sharks have no vocal cords, so they shouldn't make sounds like this, but they thought it would be more menacing. Guess can't be performances very cheesy. Special Effects, awful dialogue, and the all contribute to making jaws three a very dismal experience for just about everyone, except for a bad movie lovers I guess there are quite a few of you who listen to my show that love some of these stinkers and I can kinda understand why I actually have watched just three, probably about seven or eight times of my life I mean it's a bad movie and I really do think it sucks, but at the same time there's something kind. Kind of enjoyable about watching it on that level is pretty much hard to believe that a sequel. This downright abominable, though did not kill the franchise here because it would actually be followed by a movie that many people think is actually worse than jaws, three jaws, the revenge, which I will be talking about on the next episode from Nineteen eighty-seven, so check out John Revenge, if you are a glutton for punishment, but for what it's worth jaws three, and whether I like Josh three or jaws the revenge more I will get into on the next episode, but it's GonNa. Be Pretty Competition for worst film because I will give jaws three one star out of four one star means I do. Do think that this is an abominable film, not one I would recommend to anybody, but the most masochistic as I mentioned of bad movie lovers. If you're in that camp, I, guess you probably do enjoy this and you will watch this over and over if you're a complete list. If your jaws completed, you probably have learned to tolerate a lot of the badness for the sake of watching more jobs, but you know if I were to give this to somebody who had never heard of this franchise. Even though that seems hard to believe, they would probably come away thinking. Wow, this is just one of the worst movies I've ever seen in my life and that's why I cannot give. Josh three or Josh three, the more than one star at least in two D in three D in theater. Maybe it might pack. More appeal as data event movie that they were going for. If you have your own thoughts on jaws, three and I know many of you do you can write me confined my contact information at my website? That's equipped dot net. Let me know why you think that one star is just too low for this movie. This is actually a good movie or at least. least one that deserves more than one star, you can find my email address or links to my social media at my website, webster dot net next week as I mentioned jaws, the revenge from Nineteen eighty-seven. Michael Cain Laurien Gary returning from the first two jaws films at definitely does tie in much more with first two just films, even though a lot of people still. Nonetheless for reasons I will get into on next week's episode, so thank you so much for listening and joining me on this trip around the world in eighty s movies.

sharks Joe Alves Carl Gottlieb Richard Matheson director Steven Spielberg Alves Landsberg Jaws Animal House Matty Simmons JAWS Josh Three Dennis Quaid Mickey Rooney Simon mccorkell President Sid Sheinberg Florida Animal House Landsberg Landsberg David Brown United States
Soft Power

Sincerely, X

37:38 min | 11 months ago

Soft Power

"I'm sharon msci. He creator of new podcast called appearances. Appearances is a fictional character. Named melanie like me. Melanie is in her mid thirties. And she really really wants to have a kid but she doesn't have a partner and she doesn't have a plan what's more. She comes from a traditional iranian american family. That's not very accepting of unconventional life. Choices people have called appearances funny. They've said it has made them cry. You can find appearances wherever you got. Your podcasts support for this episode comes from lexus. What emotion fits in the palm of your hand. Can you wield the power of gravity. What does exhilaration sound like. Only lexus asks questions like these because they believe the most amazing machines aren't inspired by machines. They're inspired by you. Not only has lexus. Ask these questions. They've answered them. Discover the answers at lexus dot com slash curiosity. Lexus experience amazing. I never heard anyone speak about mental health. I never heard of depression. I never heard of anxiety. I've heard of them as like emotions. Like i don't know younger. My grandmother would. I'm so depressed because she lost ema mahjong or something but the voice you just heard is a woman from a very tight knit. Very insular ultra orthodox jewish community. I've heard people say that. Psychiatry is secular. Field doesn't happen not in our community or if someone has mental illness it'll be pushed so far under the rug. But i can never be pulled back out for years. She struggled with something. She didn't have the words for and she watched as did to the year after high school. What am i good. Friends from high school died by suicide and that was something that no one would talk about. That was she suddenly passed away. It was a tragedy. No one really knows how no one really knows why. And i will never talk about it again now. We have to pretend that she never existed. I remember going to her funeral in israel and they're like five people there she was so she was like so full of life and that was so sad to me that we just had to pretend that it had never happened in that she had never happened. And i think that was also the moment one. I realized that it wasn't just me. And if it's not just me. Then i can't just accept the status quo as be complicit and continue to perpetuate these unhealthy ideas and so that was when i started to try to become much more active in trying to help other people who weren't in a position where they could do that for themselves. I don't know our guest's name and you won't either for now. This is the only way she can share her story and do her work. My name is sarah and this is sincerely axe from tad in each episode of the show. We hear the story of an anonymous person. We give light to an idea in hiding. And then we go deeper exploring this idea with the help of others when you think of change. Makers you might imagine someone disruptive and loud making big waves with a powerful presence in this episode. We're going to explore the idea that sometimes the most effective voice isn't always the loudest. Okay so here. We are. The recorded works so i in speaking have been saying that I'm going to meet with you. And that you are From the ultra orthodox community. But actually don't know if that phrase is what you use. There's another word i i know. Also like hundred deem Haredi keeper i am. My father is jewish. Because i always a good actor yes no i'm i'm the most minimal of ju. I'm still impressed with your hebrew. I was bought med a long time ago. It's all a matter. No that's not fun part. That is the fun. That is the fun part So yes i know. The term already the an hassidic and orthodox But i don't know if other people know what any of those words mean and or would describe to someone what it means to be in the community. You aren sure so to classify those from like the most to the least insular agree. I would be hassida hasidic which is like if you think of the men who were like the for has them on many of them. Don't even speak english. They're very very very very dealer than i'd say there's haredi ultra-orthodox are probably the same thing. It's people who have a slightly different heritage in terms of like clothing. Also generally very until are limited limited access to internet end secular books if any at all no contact with anyone who's not from that world and this is the world come from so it's easier for me to speak of this. More women are expected to marry young and have lots of children. Our guest is single in her early twenties and earning her doctorate in psychology from a nonreligious university. She's an anomaly but she's not an outsider. She's devoted to her faith and is extremely close to her family but there are things she liked to see change in particular her communities discomfort and silence around mental health to make those changes. She has to stay under the radar if word gets out about grad school about the advocacy work. She's doing within her community and especially about her own struggles with mental health. Her future within the community could be in jeopardy. So the community that you come from for the most part lives near each other and secluded from non hardy. Yeah we travel in groups. Okay everyone together. Everyone knows everyone. It's a very small community. Okay if everyone knows everyone. Is that a part of why you need to be anonymous with us today. New for what ten minutes you said. You're not very jewish but right off the bat someone common. It's true earlier. We'd been chatting. And even though i don't know our guest it turns out. She had figured out a time. That i'd been her friends camp counselor years ago. There's never more than two degrees of separation. I always knew someone who knew someone who knows you. I feel that. I'm entitled to make decisions for myself and decide what i want to speak about her. Not but my dad always says that like my right to swing my around. Your face begins and i think that if i were to speak publicly about a lot of these things or do these things in a public setting really impact my family especially my sister and i can sort of make decisions for myself that would affect my own dating life for my own Relationship with my community. But i don't feel comfortable making that decision for her on her behalf and automatically limiting who she can eventually marry your who she can be friends with. And you think that your community finding out about the work you do and having it explicitly connected to you would be damaging enough that it would make your sister have a difficult time dating. Yeah definitely and also. I've always see d and so if people knew that i had my sister definitely never be able to get married because you have. Ocd do they feel it. It is contagious. I don't think they think it's contagious. As much as it's indicative of there's like a flaw in the family. Mental illness is still very much. Seen as like a secular thing and so might be indicative of how i've been over exposed the secular world of hurt a lot of things and a lot of opinions. I'm clearly none of which. I totally agree with that. I wanna make any decisions on behalf of my sister lament her life and her choices in any way and also my parents would kill me. Okay got it Speaking of your parents a lot of people will have never met an ultra orthodox true. Welcome area right. You and i know what that looks like But even i don't know like the inner workings Abso what in ultra orthodoxy is standard practice. Sure so. I think that my experience is pretty standard so i can talk about my experience from very young age. I wanted to like a playgroup when i two boys in it but since then i had never had any interaction with males. I wasn't related to my first conversation. That i ever had with a guy wasn't related to is that my first job when i was nineteen and that was the biggest culture shock of my life There's no sex education at all when my friends neighbors got engaged in ben found out with sex in to his nineteen not so scared that they're looking mary but she almost decided not to. You're pretty much just exposed people who think like you. She said she felt she was in an echo chamber. Where all you know is what you're told everyone's very well intentioned and it's really kind committee. I know god forbid if anything were to happen to mir to someone in my family every single thing would be taken care of its family difference family and in similarly like i was taught from manage. If you get lost you find a jail. Because odds are they probably have one of my parents phone number. So i think that's part of the reason that the community has really been able to survive is because it's so insular but when i get really frustrated over my mom just tries to remind me that were around twenty years behind schedule. Twenty years behind schedule the world schedule in terms of like social issues. And things like that. I i wanna talk about like how that relates to the field that we're going to dig into which is mental health. What based on your community. Based on the language they used based on the culture you grew up in what if any understanding of mental health. Did you have as a as a young person. I will say that there has been slow progress. Those in the past lake three years with mental health in my community however in terms of the rhetoric sounding mental health. That's an easy question. I will say nothing everything. I think everything really boils down to getting married. And if someone knows that there's something wrong with you are wrong with your sibling. You can never get married in them. What's your point. Can you tell me a little. Bit about a cd. Sure you know you are growing up in a community. Where as i understand it. There was not a lot of language for mental health or mental illness. There's a lot of secrecy. So i imagine that for most of your young life you did not know the term. Ocd that's correct. So what was it that made you go. Something is not right. And i know not to tell anyone well when i was younger. One of my this is my earliest memory. But one of my earliest memories was when i was around. Four and my ocd's largely symmetry oriented Hair behind one year. Have to do it with my other. Hand park and as many kids do felony scrape. My knee and my reaction was not to cry. I had you run transcript my other knee right away and i i was four so there wasn't so much ignition going on at that point but like i knew not to tell anyone and like if someone asks say you fell and those behaviors really persisted and more severe and as a girl. I'm expected to do a lot of cooking. And i couldn't because i was so scared of accidentally burn myself and then having to burn my other hand I had heard my father speak about as i got older speak about people with mental illnesses and described them as crazy and he would never let me marry someone like that and people like that don't belong here and i love my parents and i i won't to do anything even put myself aside. I don't want to do anything. That would disappoint them And so i knew. I shouldn't speak about it until it felt like absolutely unbearable did get unbearable and for a while. Her parents agreed to send her to an orthodox therapist was that therapist able to diagnose you with us cd no because honestly at that point i still didn't have the words to explain that and i sort of felt like i knew i was. She diagnosed with things. -iety 'cause i knew i was super anxious and eight anxieties word. I knew wasn't something that was even on my radar. I had never heard of it so that never even come up. She was put on anxiety medication which helped but the medicine the therapy. That was only acceptable up to a certain point. By the time she got to high school. Her parents knew that if anyone found out about her treatment it would compromise her marriage ability so they made her stop all of it. I knew it was something that carried a lot of shame for my parents and they thought that they had failed me in. They let me down. And there was a different point. When i had some gi problems and my father pulled me aside and in the hospital and he said i'm so proud of you. I'm so so proud of you that this isn't just one of those things in your head. And he meant it in like a loving and caring way. But that wasn't totally how i internalized at the twelfth grade. I took ap psychology. And then. i was reading about this. And i was just like. Oh my gosh. I have found my tribe and wait a second. Wait a second. how does it to. You're going way too fast. You are an api psychology as a senior in high school. Yeah you were literally reading the definition of ocd and we're like ding ding. Dang that's it. Yeah how did that feel so at that point. I had also sort of been sneaking out of my house. Which sounds like much more scandalous than what i was actually doing to go to the library bucks. Because these weren't the types of books i had my school. Most of my school were religious books It was a really validating to know that there were it was such a common experience there was an actual name for it was just. It was just like everything her pasta grad school started with volunteer work at an organization that allows people to text into a mental health hotline. It's a first step and a lifeline for people who might not otherwise reach out for help working. There gave her an idea. Or just like oh. This is perfect because you don't have to know the person known as no. You're texting in you quietly if you want to you scrub the data. No one's gonna eat over here. You know going to see you. And i thought that it would be such a good way to get people to just like reach out and speak about something to someone who's nonjudgmental someone. I think most importantly who's not orthodox. Because i think it'd be weird like texting and be like this might be my aunt And to even just let them know that what they're experiencing that it can get better in that their opportunities for things to get better. How is it possible to get people within a community who are used to not acknowledging mental health or mental illness to open up to the idea of texting attacks line. I think at this point. I had started speaking to a few friends in just like anecdotally. Think this something that you would do. Tell your friends about this Eventually started talking to a few rabbis about me making partnership end that was also when i started to realize that you could be the rightist person the entire world. But no one's gonna care if two things in a way that's more effective and i had. I think especially hard time speaking rabbis because people weren't listening to him so was single and says a girl and so a rabbi told me who again best intentions and genuinely just had the spicy. Wanting me to succeed. He said listen. What you're doing is great but you can't go to people in person New you're not married. Do everything over the phone. I said yes. I know but the problem is that my voice is a little high pitched and so i can usually sound like a toddler i would call people and try to speak over the phone and i actually had someone asks to speak with my husband. I don't wanna lie. I think what i said was something like. He's not available right now. i'll let you know. And he arrives loop. Let me know if you see him. So what do you do when you're faced with someone who is not inclined to listen to you and you're not loud and you're not forceful and you know you need to get your message across gently and respectfully in a moment we'll hear how our guest figures it out. I'm sarah mrs sincerely acts from tad sincerely i'm sorry Today we've been speaking to an ultra-orthodox jewish woman who learn to figure out how to make changes in her community by being covert so people wouldn't listen to you in person because you're young and a woman and unmarried. Yes a rabbi said. You got to do it by phone. Yes and then you were like cocoa but my phone voice also maybe betrays that. I am at the very least young and a woman. Yeah so how did you get around that. So everything in the jewish community sort of works. Something called like a hampshire which is like that kosher symbol that you'll see on food. Sometimes this is this is approved. I just need to get approved by a bunch of rabbis. And then people to namedrop. So i would speak to people who speak people who'd be able to speak to people to get their phone number. I would call I would introduce myself my name. Say where i live. Play jewish geography. Figure who so we have common ground Soul manipulative but very often. I would talk about how hard it is to be single. The that makes me more relatable. And i never ever ever said anything intro. Being single in the orthodox community objectively sucks so i feel that i was still very honest about it. I was just easing the situation. The unfortunate situation to my privilege and then enough. I would try to explain what i wanna do in the most benign possible terms. There's this place that i work with me attacksten. In like oh technology we can detect ponti like host show. My god forbid. We can't do that it's horrible. It's not jewish. It's technology what people are doing on technology these days. Too dangerous you're right. It could be used for enormous bad but it also has the potential to be used for enormous. Good back marriage. Because that's what you do. Say when i was in israel when my teachers was giving us class unlike it'd be a good wife and you're telling us that the things that you love the most near husband are also going to be things you hate the most in your husband so if you get married you marry when because he's kind and soft spoken in general you can expect him to yield the refrigerator repair guys when he breaks a refrigerator more. And that's gonna feel really frustrating but you have to remember that. That's why he married him. Don't you think that maybe technology sort of the same way because there's so clearly this huge possibility for to be used for bad doesn't it sort of also make you wonder what it's possibility for goodness like i mean i don't know i'm just wondering what you think. And the answer is usually positive or occasionally. The answer was absolutely not. We cannot let this into our community. Okay you have to also cut your losses but oftentimes the answer was yes. Yeah a lot of what i have done. A lot of. What i continue to do is try to remove myself from the situation as much as possible and have some rabbi with a nice hat in a big name be like the face for instead because the point is for it to be effective. It's like hello one's gonna listen to me. What do i know. You're not really seen as an adult until you're married somewhat recently. I had a family function where. I was seated at the children's table and a distant cousin who's younger than me was seated at grownups table. And i'm like what am i gonna do with cold pasta and catch up. I'm not in a position where i'm able to scream from the hilltops in effect change in this massive way. But i'm able to get in touch with people who are able to do that into who can empower. Who can i be in touch with. Who have more power than i do. And maybe one day. I'll have that power but right now i don't right now. There are still people who need helping. Sometimes it's about thinking how you could do the most good supposed to how you could feel the most good so you had to be like the rabbi whisperer. that's a good yet creepy way of putting it in addition to grad school and the partnership with the text line. She circulates lists of mental health resources to members of her community. Also she's gotten ultra religious girls schools to add mental health to the curricula here again. She's gentle with her approach which means choosing her words carefully. When speaking with school leaders there would be some terms that have to avoid. Like what stigma because stigma. That's a liberal thing. You don't have initiated. Stigma is still liberal thing like that. So there was a stigma around the word stigma. Yes it is ironic. But i would try to avoid some of the much more clinical terms talking to a principal. I probably wouldn't use the term depression. I would be like you know. Sometimes people experience these things. They'll feel really really really really sad and they don't know why then a point to all these other organizations we have organizations that train people to be medical clowns and organizations that provide food to people in hospitals and again if unorthodox persons ever so much sneezes the entire communities there for them Were there for people like that and we want to make them feel happy. Want to help them feel a little. Bit better But there are people who have imbalances in their brain. And you can't really see it and you can't really point to it. I think it'd be really great if we also help them. I don't want to overstate what i've done. There are also a lot of other people who have been doing really great work. And there's at least two or three rabbis that i can think of. Who really tried to advocate for. People who struggle with their mental health and schools are sort of coming around the bend and now what. I'm talking about things like depression. Anxiety and not getting blank stares so progress. progress is slow and steady for the mystics. It's almost like you. In addition to speaking english speaking some hebrew speaking some yiddish. It's also almost like speak a bunch of different languages. that are more subtext. Yes subtexts languages and your ability to speak to a powerful man for example we have seen is incredibly nuanced careful. there's a lot of nuance. And i started my first job outside the orthodox community. I was baffled by any social communication. People like cursing affectionately. And i had no concept for what that was and i don't think i had ever seen a woman take anyone's hand ever and alzon is expected to shake people's hands on my hand was the legislate go limp and the also like. How close do you stand to people and going back to being able to facilitate change. That's one reason it's so important to be able to work from the inside because if someone's coming in from the outside right away it's not just like other just an outsider. They'll be saying things might not be making sense to people by think to be fully attuned to that nuance you have to be submerged into the culture and again it's just about being able to communicate in a way knowing how to communicate in a way that people will listen that they're able to listen to our guests. Circumstances are unique. She does something we all have to do all the time. She speaks to people who don't agree with her. She pitches ideas to a skeptical audience. She navigates complicated social relationships and she's deliberate with her language so that she can cut through people's walls but she isn't loud or forceful when she does it partly because that isn't her authentic voice but also because she knows that tactic wouldn't be effective. A quieter approach allows her to catch people off guard after our conversation and with our guests. Permission i share her story with someone who's built his entire career around getting people to pay attention to how they speak and how they listen. My name is janine treasure. I describe myself these days as a sound evangelist. Julian is the founder of the company. The found agency and author of the book how to be heard. My mission in life really is to get people conscious about the sound. They're making which is mostly speaking and the sound they're consuming. Which is listening. And my whole thesis is that these two things are intimately related. The way i speak affects the way you listen the way you listen affects the way i speak and that circle is going on all the time one of the things that i appreciate so much about. This particular guest is. It's more common to hear stories where someone grows up in a small Restrictive community and or religious community and then as they get older their views start to shift and as a result they leave or they're forced out and this person is so very much interested in not only staying in her community but helping her community grow and being respectful of the ways that it hand grow and the ways that it would not be effective to push And i think that that is related to you know when you are an insider you speak the languages of the community. She talked a lot about Both the literal languages but also the cultural understandings that she holds And i i think that that care for the people in her family and around her is so closely tied to the way that she carries herself and the way that she communicates. Yes i agree with that. I think gratitude is a great spiritual backstop. Actually i think you know the toughness of the challenge of attempting to change entrenched views especially in a group of people who've got rules really very formal rules about what's ok what's not okay. That is such a huge challenge. And you would think that you'd have to be in a in there with a mighty army to you. Know drive this message home but this is one small person with as she said a small voice who managed to make some radical changes. You speak a lot about kind of the technical aspects of voice. The timber the pitch You're very good at helping. People recognize the elements of their own voice so that they have control over it and agency over what they sound like. And you know young women of my generation. I will say we've been taught for a long time that you know we should try and lower our voices. We should try not have question marks at the end of our sentenced says we should speak with more authority and that we are taken more seriously. If we have a lower pitch a higher one and you know that politicians with lower voices are the ones that people vote for it. Cetera et cetera. That's that's a lot of messaging. I've heard for a long time and this particular guest a does none of those things especially when she's speaking to a powerful man in her community and i'm curious what your thoughts are on. That three interesting isn't it because It is true to say From the research that yes we do vote tend to vote for politicians with deeper voices under this association of depth with strength or importance but having said all that i think what she found was that her quiet and unthreatening delivery was very successful. I think she found access that way. And you know that's also something that people with big booming powerful voices could consider. That's not always the right way to go. So i have to say all in all i mean. It's a very good case. Study because you're not dealing with somebody who went him with a towering voice in a massive presentation and it wasn't the power approach that people so often think is necessary in order to change the world it was subtle small careful considered compassionate and most of it came from a really good place. And it's just a great example of how you don't have to be massive dominating you know you don't have to be tyro in order to change the world and that's that's an inspiring thought. I think and i think that the best speakers are also really really good listeners. To me listening is the basic skillet. Underpins everything out of that. You can then become a great speaker. You know she. She listens and listens for the good. Um it's one of the practices i talk about. My book is listening for where you kind of. Set your ears to hear to filter for what's good hear what's productive. What's loving. What kind. Arbogast has incredible compassion for her community. You can hear this in the way. She talks about her family and the rabbis she sees everyone as fundamentally good and trying their best with whatever circumstance or limitations. They've been given her desire for. Change comes from a deep love of her community which is clear by the way she's gentle and communication and the way she's willing to put aside her ego and not receive any credit for her work as long as the work is helping the folks who need it and that compassion and kindness get extended to anyone she crosses paths with in being in a secular space like grad school. Are there any surprising experiences that have come up or that. You have encountered That now that you're in a different space from the when you grow up in have surprised you when i was in my previous jobs when my closest friends was a muslim and we got on so well and she came from a very religious muslim family. And we just joked that like. We're supposed to hate each other. We have so much in common like everything in common and speak. Hebrew into a note was saying because arabic and hebrew are so ridiculously similar. And i was in a group chat with me and this muslim woman and hindu woman and we would all just exchange dating stories and dating is exactly the same. How we're both set up by people very we'll have like resumes that we have Most of us have less of a say in the planning our life with him we would want to. There's a lot of pressure to get married are having babies. You can't you can't really got with anyone who's even slightly outside of your faith Over mothers wanted us to marry doctors on there is so much that was so relatable and we just share like our worst dating stories. I would watch that. Tv show it would probably make a really good tv. Sincerely acts is produced by magnificent noise for our production. Staff includes kim. Netter vein peterse. Dentistry sibley eva will trevor and chloe shot with the help of angela. Chang janet lee. Michelle quinn jesse. Baker and colin helps. Our fact checker is lorena trujillo. This episode was mixed sound. Designed by kristen muller our executive producer. Is eric newsham. I'm sarah and this is sincerely acts.

ocd ap psychology depression sarah mrs two degrees Lexus melanie Melanie israel ding ding ten minutes sarah twenty years Twenty years alzon Field ben three years one year mary
Financial Therapy: Struggling To Trust Again

Death, Sex and Money

52:28 min | Last month

Financial Therapy: Struggling To Trust Again

"That sex and money is supported by. This is actually happening. A weekly podcast from wondering that features extraordinary true stories of moments that changed everything for ordinary people here from a woman who went for a quick bike ride and the swiss alps and found herself lost in a dark icy unknown world. Woman who went to maui in search of a healer but instead endured a harrowing ordeal as she went missing for seventeen days in a rainforest. Listen to this is actually happening on apple podcasts amazon music or you can listen ad by joining wondering plus in the wondering app wondering feel story. Wnyc studios is supported by car. Care to go. We all know the hassle of getting an oil change or car repair car care to go. Saves you time and stress. They pick up your car repair it and bring it back to you all with the of a button schedule now at car care to go dot com and use code. Welcome twenty five for twenty five dollars off any service. That's car care to go dot com and use code. Welcome twenty five for twenty five dollars off any service listener support w. in wiessee studios previously on financial therapy from debt. Sex money march twenty twenty. I started to get into online gambling. I the more conservative viewpoint on how he should thank our money out absurd worn. I lost like ten thousand dollars in like a week. The whole situation was so shocking. We had a series of really hard conversations. Initially where i was. Okay i understand. How has your trust in garrett. Ben affected by what has been happening with his health and with money and your financial lives. I as i have been struggling with that a lot. I feel about it. Like i feel like i can't believe saving i- man sale and today we are continuing our financial therapy series sitting in on sessions between amanda claiming a licensed clinical social worker. And a couple. Were calling cora and garett if you miss the first episode in this series go back and listen to that before he listened to this one there. You'll hear about the snowballing crises. The couple face last year. Both cora and garett work and garett got into online gambling. Then he lost lots of money and spiraled into despair and eventually tried to kill himself. And i just want to pause here to say if you are struggling with your mental health right now. We've got resources in our show notes including where to call if you were having thoughts of suicide yourself. Garrett lost eighteen thousand dollars gambling. And after cora found out about it. They decided that she needed to take over handling their money. Something she wasn't very involved in before. Now i'm dealing with all the money stuff and i feel like there's this awareness of the thing that's always there. I've made pretty clear that. I'm not responsible person or at least i wasn't the most responsible person when it comes to these financial matters so i that aspect of our relationship as the right. Now's not really in mike. Work in this episode. Amanda talks with cora and garett about the ways they see money differently and about how they can find trust again. Here's amanda at the end of my first session with core and garrett. I gave them some homework to think about and talk together about their strengths and weaknesses when it comes to dealing with money so i wanted to start there but as soon as we got on her zoom together me for my closet in california court and garett side by side on their living room couch near detroit. I got a little distracted by the other presence in the room with them. Sorry she's on your also havoc. Oh she's so cute many. It's nice that she's hanging out today. Yeah definitely we'll show we jump in. I wanna be mindful of time since i notes later where you are Tell me about what the homework experience was for each of you together. I didn't think it will be that hard i like. I just Ra unplugging by matrix episodes. Lynn giving an example of each santa rosa else. Me and i literally sat down to a non home from work and the male came and brought it in an open up a letter from our old insurance company that said that we owe them a bunch of money safer claims they paid off we have vials reviled it to our new insurance and they were like Us this absorbed on money in thirty days collections. And i was just like watch. It just really freaked me out. And i like side. Oh i'm freaking out about us right now. I am Gear wake i perceived to get really angry with me and i got With them for getting through freaking out. Because i assumed freak out let me just pause you first. Second i just wanna backtracking loop sheridan garrett. What did it mean to you. When cora reacted the way that she did. My reaction was more of a thing of what i am willing at this point in my life to allow me upset. So when core was that upset about this thing that seemed to be a to me like a little bit innocuous and kind of out of our control which was and and i think she realized that and felt the way she does. I just felt like what you know what this is. Just gonna like if you continue down this road. This trajectory with this conversation is gonna ruin the night. I mean it whether or not it's still right. Responsive just decided stage Of after all this stuff has happened over the last six months. I kind of just decided that i wanted. That's bothering me anymore. So it's really. It's a matter of survival for you to have a personal kind of boundary. And how much you you let yourself take on emotionally around money and finding those. Because i don't currently have that much control over our financial bice in the same way that is i did before and i find it to be very much on and a lot of ways so i think he i trust. I felt that way to you. I am i just for an i. Kind of don't really want to be completely dictated by Every little thing that could Will maybe go wrong. i kind of want. I feel inclined to take things on a case by case basis in this particular case i was like. Wow i wish i had just left that in the mailbox like change. The whole dynamic of the night You just let me have my moment that i asked for but we would have moved on for men tennis but instead you were like. You're freaking out about this is upsetting me. Because this means that we're gonna miss out on this and then i'm just like you know it was like leon mental move on you know people talk about their feelings. They're do you guys have any sort of regular money talks with each other. Know you've tried but it's never worked like we've always just like Not done it was suggested to us that we like schedule. Something regularly that we check in like did it for like three weeks alone. It sobbed happening. We one of us are both less. Were waiting at way just kind of stopped doing it. Remembrance again because we've just found myasthenia source of conflict for us a pretty big way including the conversation that we have for homework. And it's just done something that has been easier to away which like inevitably resulted in conflict. Anyway we can send like things. Come at one austin nobel prize argue so what were the what kinds of conflicts that were coming up when you were tried to talk about it before i remember. We like one. St we had that was really horrible. Was like when we went to the vet with eight just like a normal vet checkup but we buy like her guard. And all that stuff you know. And i always just get six months of the things when we go and it was like just after garrett's i lay during the pandemic And i was still looking for and we went together. 'cause it's not saturday and like i just ask them for that. They brought it out in paid for it and huge argument about it because garrett felt like i have made that decision without really asking him. He wasn't comfortable with new. Might remember this differently Comfortable with spending on amount of money with things were sort of uncertain. But i was like well. Our dog is gonna be here on six months. God willing and it's gonna cost more if we have to buy again next month. You know so. Like the i like thinking about those things launcher. He was thinking like we'll right now. Things are uncertain. And you've just spent a lot of our money. Yeah it sounds like that made you feel super anxious garrett. Yeah i feel anxious so that's money. In general it was. I had experienced like a a layoff for anything like that. There's no real kind of idea of what the future is gonna hold so at the time i was more like famine mentality or you know maybe our lives will be clearly different six months or you know worsening horrible were to have so. That's kind of that's kind of where my head was. It's such a good example. Because i think that that's one of those like grey areas where it's very clear that our decision making is affected by how feeling in those circumstances so like when when there's been a layoff which makes us feel out of control when we're in a pandemic and it seems like the world has gone crazy and it's very natural to just sort of want to tighten up and control everything that we can control with money and it actually takes a certain amount of processing and work to be able to step back from that and say okay. How does this decision makes sense. If i think about it more long-term like if i'm thinking about it over the six month period How much of my life do i want to say. Okay we're just going to operate that as normal like these are sort of committed types of expenses versus these are the ones that are discretionary that we might want to scale back. It's not like those things just naturally sort themselves in our heads. It's only oftentimes when we get into a situation. Where like corey. You would make the decision one way garrett. You would make the decision in another way and it's only through kind of talking it out. I e conflict that we can get to a place of like okay. Now i feel like i i have a better sense of sort of what what i want my preferred decision to be in this kind of situation but unfortunately i think for most of us the way that we experienced that is it. Looks like a fight and pretty much. None of us enjoy fight So oftentimes we don't get to even have that experience of being able to process it and make a decision together because in order to avoid a fight we either make that decision independently or or we say like. This is what i'm gonna do your. You're wrong you're incorrect. Does that make sense doesn't make sense. I think before. Eric was laid off before i was unemployed for that summer. We haven't been able to successfully kind of avoid each other in certain situations like that. Yeah so that when we were suddenly like both like pretty much unemployed and doing everything together like oh my god. This is how you ha- make last more of cora and garrett's second financial therapy session after the break dad saxon. Money is supported by brooklyn. It's summer again. And that means hot sunny days and nights. That are too hot to get any sleep. Enter brooklyn crisp sheets that breed to keep you cool and you can say goodbye. Sweaty summer nights brooklyn and works directly with manufacturers to make luxury available directly to you without the markups so you get their amazing array of products buttery soft and breathable sheets blush. Absorbent towels and company lounge wear all at a reasonable price go to brooklyn and dot com and use code. Dsm to get twenty dollars off with the minimum purchase. One hundred dollars that's b. r. o. k. l. i. n. e. n. dot com and enter code. Dsm you'll get twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. Death sex and money is sponsored by better help online therapy. This show is proud to join the cause of de stigmatizing therapy for anyone struggling with depression addiction stress grief or any other issue better help is available. Better help is customized online therapy. That offers secure videophone and even live chat sessions with your own licensed professional therapist. Online therapy is convenient and more affordable than in person therapy and our listeners. Get ten percent off their first month at better help. Dot com slash. Dsm that's better h. e. l. p. dot com slash dsm. I'm nora mcnerney from the podcast. Terrible thanks for asking. Arbogast is for anybody. Who's been through life. Anybody who lives in a world where sometimes bad things happen and everything falls apart and then they just keep going. Every week we tell the stories of real people who have been through the hard things in life sometimes. Funny sometimes heartbreaking. Often it's both we all contain multitudes. In sodas our show you can listen to terrible. Thanks for asking wherever you are. Listening to this podcast. This is financial therapy from death sex money. I'm amanda klayman. So let's get back to then the strengths or weakness as part so you were sitting down to do the homework when all of this stuff happened With the bill. Were you able to sit down and think about your strengths and weaknesses. Yeah so i. I see like i could be strategic and thinking long-term pretty well. I'm good at saving money. Not easily sterling tempted by stuff But i also use it in meaningful ways. Unlike waves at uber me joy like buying earrings artist friend. Do you know. I really care about or You know like little things like that. That i don't do very often when i do. It makes me happy. i make someone else. happy in terms of weaknesses will is having a dream. Very downstream terms of weakness I maybe like two frugal Bother people are you looking at garrett as somebody who could be bothered by that. I'm i'm looking for a reaction of everyone so on listening you. Just listen to what you're saying. Okay so like i. I went on a trip to yesterday was my friend a few years ago and found Tickets to get their amount night. Didn't go to the mango. He's because it was like twenty five zero or something. That was exorbitantly expensive than i was ridiculous. And now in retrospectively looking like a stupid like i now looking back. I'm like that feels silly. So that was that was like an example. There are a bunch of things that i kind of wanted like Touch upon but but before we do that. Let's let's go to garrett and hear about your strengths and weaknesses when it comes to money. Yeah i feel a little bit Weird by answering us. Because of the things i know to or i believe to be true. Outweigh the court feels about liability handle money. So let's say. I'm going to answer this like somebody has absolutely no idea about my background with gambling. Okay because prior to get a Gambling was very like on top of things. And i think about my relationship with our finances. A lotta times from that lens and from the reality like my behavior from the prior. Six months I would say that. I'm a good money manager. That's one of my strengths. I'm good at knowing where things go. I mean some people really overwhelming Actually pretty savvy when it comes to how to get a personal loans for things how to get financing how to get things you want using the system that we have which is a to my detriment to our detriment as the couple here. Strong operator. yeah. I can totally be financial advice by financial manager for somebody. If i knew that their money was you know that. I i didn't have actual patrols hairbrush But i know that one of my one of my weaknesses. That i'm a little bit more enough. More fertilised category so there is something that i feel inclined to purchase historically especially I wouldn't feel that much poll not to make a decision Kind of made me feel satisfied in the moment and then I'm pretty generous. And i have been generous with my friends and was in the past and i always tip really well and i like some parts of my job very similar to like the underdog had a feeling of like well. Nobody's gonna really appreciate gal. So i used to go when i was very like a younger kid i was i would at least suspected person to really well i would go and i would just like a ton of money because i was like how you wouldn't have suspected me to be the person they're coming in and make know your life easier anything that you're hearing that's surprising as you each listen to each other. Well i this doesn't really answer that question. But i when you're at talks about the Late the generosity. That's something that. I have observed him have always observed And agree with and. I think that that has rubbed off on me in a good way but on i've always seen as more frivolous and that's not because that's not like a thing where i think the like that. I don't respect you. But i come care to the way that i manage money our son. You're whatever i've always looked at the way you spend money is felt like oh my gosh. She's like sending a lot of money. on you know the sort of thing that i wouldn't spend money out and i feel like you think that is Unkind view we have navy are used to compartmentalize finances like as long as everything was kind of like the xyz thing we're paid or like a certain percentage of everything was going here than everything that was left over. That wasn't going into savings or wasn't going into you know it's like fair game. Let's come away ed Yeah i thank one. I'll this is so great. That means that we have extra amount that goes into savings or that goes to pay off this defensor. Yes like i pay off extra on things. Most months of moneymaking are pretty much never. Don't you think that. I am like incredibly. I'm just saying what you've said. Three only like irresposible. Sometimes i don't. I actually don't feel that it's irresponsible will. I do feel that. Whatever is left over is not going into savings. Because you're paying extra guys. I i don't think that you are. You're each sort of re re explaining the value system. That drives the kinds of decisions that you're making as presenting it as correct like no no. No if you just understand this thing about the way that i make decision then you will agree that my way is correct. I'm going to offer that. Neither way is inherently corrected. It really is a reflection of how how you see money as a means to an end in your life. What is the value of money. What is money doing for me or doing for us. And and the two of you are expressing very balanced points of view when taken together so if if we can sort of pull out the pieces in here that can be helpful to identify in in what we wanted to co create moving forward like i can see how well it worked in certain circumstances corps f the way that you maintain a sense of safety around money and that you control your your anxiety about money that you may feel by sort of just having a default no like the frugality is something that sort of like you know that within the zone of frugality that you that mostly things are going to be okay. But i'm also thinking about how suber delightful. It must've been. Will you got together with garrett and all the sudden. Here's somebody who doesn't have that. Same sort of natural frugality around money who can who can bring you into the world of being more generous and open and free-flowing about money in a way that doesn't trigger your anxiety and similarly i'm thinking garrett there is a lot that must have felt really great for you to have a person who would so appreciate all of those things and be so affirming in some ways when you could be the person who's like treating and giving it and so under certain circumstances. This is a pair bond that works really well under limited circumstances and then when the circumstances really changed then you discovered that that these same things that were strengthened in certain circumstances became weaknesses or when the two of you would try to coordinate would become a source of conflict. Yeah totally. I think it was really nice when you get. We're like what's go out for drinks like you rely can invite. You will be confined to drink. You know you like that. Honestly that was not what. I was raised around certain. Yeah i'm sure. I'm sure this is pretty common allows these That kind of spending income approaches really. Awesome when you're not a partnership where your money my only becomes our money. Well yeah like now. It's not as exciting. I guess when you buy something. Because i feel like you to start our money how to be honest the zone i answered when we got married. Believe in why we start living. It like stopping. It's so true that the things that attract us to our partner those attractive qualities initially that. Get us to bond are often not the things that sustain the bond long-term It can often feel like like you meet with somebody who knows the same dance that you do or knows the other the corresponding steps in the dan. So like just seems like. You're moving around the floor of life without having to really coordinate too much. Because you both intuitively know the steps. You know what your partner is going to do. And then we get into a situation where that dance doesn't work and it doesn't work because we want something different in our lives long term It doesn't work because we run into individual difficulties or circumstances change so now suddenly instead of things feeling really intuitive it feels like we have to really look at our process. We have to say the things that we want which can feel very you know can bring up all kinds of stuff around that where we have to take real responsibility for saying this as i what i want even in the face of a partner who might be well. Hey i want something really different. So i would say that. The the work of financial intimacy is in many ways the opposite of financial romance. Where if the romantic pieces that we don't have to say anything at all. The intimacy peace means we really are safe enough to say the most vulnerable things that we can even imagine coming up. Amanda talks more with cora and garett about opening up and when they have gotten vulnerable with each other including when they both had covert because we were so sick. We like agitating out than not. Do anything physically clinic this. We're blessing in disguise in really unpleasant. Scaife that sex and money is supported by brooklyn and it's summer again and that means hot sunny days and nights. That are too hot to get any sleep. Enter brooklyn crisp sheets that breathe to keep you cool and you can say goodbye to sweaty summer nights brooklyn and works directly with manufacturers to make luxury available directly to you without the markups so you get their amazing array of products buttery soft and breathable sheets flush and absorbent towels and company lounge. Wear all at a reasonable price. Go to brooklyn dot com and use code. Dsm to get twenty dollars off with the minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. That's b. r. o. k. l. i n. e. n. dot com and enter code. Dsm you'll get twenty dollars off with a minimum purchase of one hundred dollars. Wnyc studios is supported by forward. No it's crazy waiting months for ten minute doctor's appointment healthcare is backwards before 'word is clearing things up by offering primary care that's both surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward using the latest tech like in-depth genetic analysis and realtime bloodwork. Their doctors create highly personalized. Easy to understand plans aimed at improving your long term health. Move your health forward today at go. Forward dot com. That's go forward dot com. This is financial therapy from death. Sex and money. I'm ana sale. And i'm amanda klayman before this year court and garett used to have separate bank accounts and they divvy up expenses based on the amount of money they were making but after core found out about garrett's gambling debt. She got the passwords to all of their bank. Accounts opened a joint account and took charge of garrett's paychecks when he started work again earlier this year so it is definitely a definitely come weird. Just kind of like okay. I i send my monitor to every week. And then it's then it becomes. Our money meant that and then it's just like okay. I keep like certain around money just like small mouth. That's works really well for us keeping our money for sure. Yeah but it is a little bit like a little cold. It doesn't feel like there's any like conflict over our award system. I used to have kind of a personal goals monetarily. And i don't feel like i have any 'cause i don't i don't feel like i have that control and part of the reason i stayed motivated for doing the kind of work i do. Which is extraordinarily dirty and really hard and curling and like totally not something most beautiful wanna do parvaiz do it instead of working. Doing something else is because of the financial reward of doing I i think we should be clear that the system right now is a temporary transitional system in the benefit of this temporary and transitional system is that it gives you enough stability and let's appreciate chorus contribution here in that sense set like that between the two of you. You have these strengths in your partnership of somebody who can come in and say you know what. I'm going to jump in here and i'm gonna use all of my safety skills. And all of my frugality and management skills to come up with a plan that make sure that our safety needs are met and that we are back on track and from that sort of platform of safety. It becomes possible to experiment and move incrementally toward something that does feel more inclusive. It's it's difficult to accept sometimes. Accept the reality of your decision making you know. There's there's something in your in your wording there that i wanna point out when you say it's it's difficult to accept And if we contrast that with i have difficulty accepting you know the it's difficult to accept sort of puts it puts the feeling out here a little bit more. I i do have difficulty accepting difficulty. I think accepting the The consequences of my actions. No how do you think about how your gambling specifically has affected your relationship with your wife. i i don't know that i think about it that way. I i don't know what i think of it specifically is to gambling. Necessarily i do 'cause the reason i say. That is because like you know. Core founded like covered in vomit and blood. In the best of that. I was go more guilty belsen. Do you see them Temperate i not separate emotionally. You're not separate my and the emotional bags that i have. But they're separate events almost because in the timeline of leading up to today so they are. They're not any more or less significant is just. They're things that are the. That's it is more of a emotionally traumatic thing. I might have been gambling. Wait longer but this event put me in the hospital corps was dealing with all of that. What strikes me is how alone you must have felt for things to have have gotten to that point. Yeah and I can really relate to the feelings that i was having then but also is a new weird thing like where i don't. I understand how somebody could still still separate from like that. Yeah and of person. And now i cannot put myself back in the in the in the same as and that could be because you still don't. It doesn't feel safe for you to be able to go back to that place That one of the ways you you stay focused on the things that you can take care of and the kind of like The the parts of the external recovery in the financial recovering Where you guys are at financially is by keeping that piece sort of off to the side One of the unintended consequences of that can be that it makes it harder for the two of you to be able to talk about What it would take to get you back to a place where it is safe garrett for you to also be kind of reincorporated not just into your family's financial life and the financial choices and how you you make decisions together But also so that. Cora can feel safe to know that you are not sort of drifting away like in an unknown way sort of drifting off having this whole internal experience that she may not know is a serious as it was before your suicide attempt. Does that make sense. Yeah yeah yeah. Is that something that you guys would be okay to talk about a little bit. I'm telling you. I see lilly on the couch again and i feel like she knows i feel like she's like deep feelings. I'm gonna come right up over here. Yeah totally yeah. I think my sierra is like this this fear of seeing you go out of control when it comes to money. you're spending. Are you choosing to do things. That spark a pecan interest in addict. Part of your brain. Unlike than i like and i don't trust my own trust and that becomes distrust. I guess because. I'm like i wanna trust you the fan. I'm why maybe. I should be really. Should have like more guarded. Scenario are like more protection. Set up. And then i'm like oh this feels like distrust and i feel like it comes across that way. I don't know it's really hard. Because i do trust garrett in this really deep way emotionally and yet like this thing happened and i'm like really struggling lewis it. Still you know different ways. Sometimes it comes back up than ways. That i thought were done. You know like the like. I didn't think i like any kind of Response unlike i. I like i do like i had like panic. Attacks or will i liked will say. But that's just me unlikable kind of start to come backup. Unlike i guess those events of ceiling that lack of emotional security or like he is drifting away a knots. like what. I'm the most afraid of. And i signed by being insecure them unlike feeling really bad about myself that he tried to leave a matt's when i see a link almost like rejected like it's nice fault. I'm like not even really answering the question. I feel like it's just like it's all these really deep intense complicated things that have been really hard to actually deal with because life feels like an insane hamster wheel right now and it has felt that way since this happened like it's been just like complete insanity nonstop forever. Yeah like i'm so glad we got coded crazy. That sounds miserable. Like so grateful that we were okay. But if we hadn't had that time together just like the like i don't know fleet survived it. You know yeah you were really craving that that closeness and a sense of no kind of boundaries are impediments between you. Yeah when augusta. This all happened. I felt very nice. Distance couldn't like there was like a lack of trust loss of trust or like. I just felt like i had to be charged in instead of just being like an equal partner. Yeah position in. How do i can. I just want to get garrett's perspective to unlike what was it like for you to be sick with cora. Oh yeah it was really yasser nice. I'd i'd i don't think it was. I think we look back in retrospect and said that it was it was helpful for relationship. I don't think it was great while it was happening. I it was nice. It was nice to have time to spending it. It's always nice to have time to spend together. It's always been something that really enjoy. But there are different ways that we spend time with each other we can spend time sort of as co workers Or as playmates Quality of of being able to be connected in a state of vulnerability that is a really central to intimacy but certainly when there has been injury When we are are suffering and feeling hurt and overwhelmed. It's returning to that safe bond of connection. That really helps even on a. I mean we can look at it biologically but it just like calms down our whole bodies to be in that state and i see you on the layer of lake co workers that seems to be getting back on track and your your functionally doing the things that kind of need to get taken care of So then there's this. Other layer of being able to to be really present in your own individual vulnerabilities and to be able to be open heart and facing each other while in that state to and sometimes. That's the piece that's really really tricky and really really hard how. How is the process of of reconnecting happening for you right now. I still feel like. I don't let him very like totally to your experience. I don't mean like that as the criticism ready thing. Like i just feel like guy still captured arms length a lot of the time. And that's hard. And i know a lot of that is just like probably mountains because of what happened but i feel that way. A lot garret do you feel a sense of open heartedness and connection with cora. Yeah definitely. I don't feel that there's anything holding back from sharing with you about how the things are experiencing. Can you tell her. i mean. Speak to that that part of her. That's really afraid and feeling scared here. Tried to to talk to that part of core directly. I am to the best of my ability right now. Sharing everything that i'm stealing and experiencing with you openly and it might surprise you that there might not be that much going on outside of what you're already privy to so i i feel completely open and able to be vulnerable and honest with you about my emotions in about how i feel about things. Do you think she should be worried or needs to be worried about. You need to be worried about me. Fencing is about saying that is As probably what. I would have said when i was suicidal too. But right now having a few more tools in my in my in my at my disposal for dealing with these kind of things you don't have to worry about making dress decisions that are going to alter our life. Why does what's different support system like outside of our relationship a lot more than i did before in program to relationships that i've developed over the last six months. Yeah this feels like a really important conversation for for you guys to To have as part of the process of of re-establishing safety entrust as part of your intimacy is being able to to be honest about what worries you So cora i think your questions about like almost like how did this happen on my watch like. Here's the person that i am most connected to in the world and he was going through something that i i was shut out of. I wasn't a part of and he was really struggling. In a way that i might have been aware on some level that there was a struggle but i didn't know that it was this bad and in order for me to feel safe moving forward i need to know how i can know and trust and reconnect with the garrett that i know and love to make sure not only that you garrett are safe but also that you corre are safe. It's not like to have that conversation. Garrett means that you're doing something wrong or that you are not actively demonstrating your commitment to your health and your recovery It really is just the opportunity to sort of like keep turning toward each other in those moments of vulnerability and shrinking the space of secrecy. Between you does that make sense. Yes that feels nice to hear you know. I guess i do still feel a wall. That's all next week on financial therapy. I like birds. I'm super excited. And garett big is expected to be is. I know that this is just one stage. We still have moms where it's hard to talk about certain things but it's got like it's overall on a lot better. We're definitely petty arguers as well but we've been able to last together a lot more. Would you say that you're feeling closer to cora. Yeah i feel closer for mean factor. Child pretty significant in that if you are struggling to see ida i about money and our relationship and you wanna work on achieving that financial intimacy that amanda talked about earlier in the session. We've got a list of five qualities. That amanda looks for when working with couples that can help build healthier relationships when it comes to money text financial therapy to the number seven. Oh one oh one and wilson those to you. We'll also send you away to sign up for our weekly death sex and money newsletter. And if you'd like some resources for dealing with debt in your life go to death sex money dot org slash financial therapy if you are struggling with a gambling problem. Call the national problem gambling helpline at one eight hundred five two two four seven zero zero or you can get peer support by going to gam talk that's g. a. m. t. a. l. k. Dot org finally. If you are experiencing god's of suicide please tell someone call the national suicide prevention lifeline at one eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. This special series was produced by yasmin. Khan and katie bishop with the rest of the team at death. Sex money anna sale after yellow duke. Emily boutin and andrew done with additional editing by annabelle bacon and jenny lawton original music by isaac jones. You can find me. Amanda claiming on instagram at amanda klayman and on twitter at manda. Klay you can find all of our past financial therapy episodes with amanda at death. Sex money dot org slash financial therapy. Look out for our next episode of financial therapy with amanda klayman next week. I'm ana sale and this is death. Sex and money from wnyc. Wnyc studios is supported by car. Care to go. We all know the hassle of getting an oil change or car repair you waste hours coordinating rides and shuttles or sitting in a stuffy waiting room. 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Celebrating Solitude: How to Develop a Sacred Space to Honor Your True Self with Rachel Astarte

The Light Inside

52:08 min | 5 months ago

Celebrating Solitude: How to Develop a Sacred Space to Honor Your True Self with Rachel Astarte

"Hello and thank you for joining us. I am your host so full business leadership coach. Jeffrey be secker. We are all on the journey to discover the light inside that beacon which gauges to live our truest most authentic self. This is episode zero zero six three. It's not selfish the love yourself. Take care of yourself into make your happiness of priority. In fact it's a necessity the world out. There can often become a crazy busy and stressful plates. If we let it have you ever encountered someone who is incredibly giving we clearly emotionally fried pumped in this person wears the mask of perpetual exasperation over how happily happily busy they are giving in doing the last tiny pieces of there being shared with everyone. Everyone that is but themselves from today's episode arbogast author trans personal psychotherapist in transformational coach. Rachel starting will share a practical guide exploring how developing a regular solitude practice engages your ability to become more authentic wheel lined three needs to be in the present moment. While flowing effortlessly in alignment within the essence of your being in all the rachel shares. How creating a sacred space for yourself and placing importance on self care freezes from the patterns and ways of bean which often lead us towards overwork mental and physical fatigue stress an ultimate bernau being more aware of the internal patterns often preventing us from seeing our larger tapestry frees us to see the mosaic of who and what we are bracing or sacred space honorine or proof and practicing self love can often feel challenging taking the time to nurture our wellbeing in our happiness while getting in touch with ourselves we practice self love so we could push through our limiting beliefs and live a life that truly shocked tune in to find out how to develop a sacred space create more time. Doing what truly makes you so happy on the light inside today. Show our guest author trans personal psychotherapist. In transformational coach rachel star shares with us the habits and practices weakened undertake empowering us to create and develop sacred space of solitude in our daily lives. Many of us can reach a point where we feel stuck overwhelm inadequates end first of all. If there's you there is hope you can regain a sense of bouncing harmony in your life and second of all. You're not alone. Almost all of us will find ourselves feeling a little over stress in the throes of burnt out at some point in our lives. Rachel is here today. Teaches how a breeding solitude and setting boundaries to reclaim the sacred. Space is such a crucial habit to develop allowing us to break free of the grips of our daily routines. Rachel how're you hello. I'm well how are you doing. Fantastic off a great start on this monday afternoon. Always good to start off. Well on a monday ahead sign for the week. Yes it is so i know we are on somewhat of a limited time frame. Have to keep it very concise. So i am already to dive in when you are yes correct. Also we'll great. I'm excited for this conversation. We've had on the for awhile. I'm here roll right in. We're going to be looking at a practical dag. To exploring how to develop regular solitude practice to share the lines within our authentic self and finding that sense of sometimes they hire so. I feel that can be so freeing to be in the present moment win herself. Daily and flowing effortlessly in alignment within that essence of our being in all that we would start by taking a look at how to begin to be aware of how this looks in our daily lives. How do we start to recognize when we are heading off course a little in feeling out about. That's a great question when we start to feel as though things are out of our control and we may feel like our lives just aren't going the way that we want them to go. And then we start kicking ourselves and you know questioning. What do i need to do to get back on track. What i need to do to get things going my way again. Sometimes that's a. That's that little spark of what i call misalignment in the self and sometimes it shows up as a general sense of discomfort in your own life and discomfort in our own lives while a lot of us feel that sure no big deal and then some of that's normal. That will help us to get on track. And that's the point is that we get to this place where we feel as the losing ourself like the world is happening around us and we don't know how to get grounded and we don't know how to get back in control now controls a tricky word because we can't control the world around us. What we can control is how we manage. What comes our way. So a general sense to recap a general sense of being out of alignment with yourself. You feel unbalanced. Yeah and that can show up in many different ways. Things aren't going your way relationships. You're having trouble communicating. maybe at work. You're feeling stagnant. If you're a creative person you might have a block about whatever it is. What's lacking in that. Moment is a connection to your deepest self. If that makes sense yes. We look at that aspect. It's starting to recognize that. What are some of the potential signs and symptoms that we can experience mentally physically emotionally as we look into that you know we start to get these internal and of indicator points that are saying hey strain off of true yeah so symptoms would be self doubt right now. Some self doubt is great. Keeps us humble. It makes us question. Are we at the top of our game. can we do better when self-doubt gets to be a dysfunctional is when we start to listen to that voice and start to begin to develop low self esteem. All i'm not good enough to know that that nagging voice the negative self talk. That says yea. Don't bother to the saboteur. Right the person who yourself sabotage mechanism that says nia now. Don't even bother trying to do that. You'll probably screw it up. So some indicators are self doubt that is dysfunctional. That's not moving you forward. It's not opening. You like opening you to be a better person. It's closing you down so another indicator would be exhaustion. Just vern out. Yeah like i'm giving. And giving and giving and i'm freaking exhausted and i don't know why because and people need me. People rely on me. My family relies on me. My kids rely on me. My colleagues orlando. my friends. Rely on me trying to check all those boxes so often we get so caught in that focus of just going through that process of checking the boxes we get stuck in that pattern wien in forget the time to check the box for us exactly and in my book celebrating solitude talk about it's like having a party and filling everyone's glass with an empty pitcher you know and so what solitude practice will do help you that pitcher but we'll get to that minute so we're still talking about the symptoms right so another part of it and self doubt when enough of these go on you may begin to develop anxiety or depression kenny's or other symptoms where you're just lethargic you don't find joy in what he used to find joy in things seem kind of purpose less too often that can surface in the body teed and we started to fill those aches and pains. We tired all the time but as mentally clear you go. That's exactly the next the next point i was getting to once. We thank you for that. You segue beautifully into the neck white which averted you fearful. You nailed it. So yeah our bodies start to feel that and is that about all great. Now my body's against me to know your body is a beautiful tool. It's the light on the dashboard. Yeah this fred said. Hey it's time. Dancing was telling light on the data off saying hey change your oil. You know so if you're getting backaches you're you're getting ulcers stomach pain or if you have ibs or if you have these kinds of things that are headaches these are perfect indicators that your body is saying hello my love you need to change your pattern man you know. Sometimes it's that real active not actually nurturing yourself or take it a little bit of time for some exercise some kind of activity that stimulates both our body and our brain right and so that's another really important. Point is that we can't separate nine body and spirit. We can't do that if we it's like. I liken it to win for music geeks out there. When you have an voiceover folks like myself and people who were technology when you look at the equalizer right you don't want too much trouble too much base you want your mind body and spirit to kind of be equaling out. Everything is a symphony. We have two. That's that integration. Where we're working as one course one orchestra on harmony so to speak right so we absolutely true so the the problem that we highly intelligent human beings have with our fantastic neo. Cortex is that we take everything so seriously so if we have a bad day we're almost program to think. Well this is how it's going to be the rest of my life. Oh my god. What do i do instead of saying. I'm having a bad sometimes. We brokered that day ahead of time in front loaded up monday. Monday suck we front-loaded starting to condition that part of our brain says that's going to be the pattern. We have right and it doesn't help when society backs that up with. I mean how. I made that show when we started greater feeling good on a monday. You know what i mean. You laughed at that. Because that's a societal expectation that monday suck is a shining example generational patterning we get these conditions notions. Were taught from very on at this is simply the way things right and be restart the except that simply as the whole truth. Yes and so one of the things that we need to do is break the patterning and that's really scary. Because if i start doing my own thing if i start thinking my own way i'm gonna lose my friends. I'm not going to be able to relate to able anymore but in fact the opposite happened is that you're contributing to the tapestry of life in a much more genuine and honest way yes yeah starting to create that wonderful mosaic and what we all truly can be credit infinitely wonderful magical mystery. That's out there in the universe. You know we just simply move into being in all al things to become what they might be And we need to be. I say at the top of our game but i mean we need to be our true sounds in order to let our little chunk of the mosaic shine. If you're too busy trying to be what other pieces of the mosaic are being around you then we have monochrome ugliness. We don't want that. You know you have to be your own like majestic blue or vibrant yellow or whatever you are and you won't know what that is unless you trust your gut inner guide right and that's where we talk about the mind body spirit working in conjunction so i wanted to just finish that thought about like you know when not to cling to something that feels off like if your body you know if your lower back is starting her sciatica or whatever you start to think great. That's what i'm going to have for the rest of my life. Now no back it up work with your body drop into your body. What is your mind telling you use your minds. Held okay on icy what it is. I've been under a lot of stress. That's been affecting i my lower back. Ok what can i do to ease that up. Call in your spirit okay. I'm gonna do a little more meditation. I'm going to remind myself that. I am one being in all of the tapestry mosaic of the universe and i have a really important part to play that role can become such a daunting task. Know what is my relationship with myself can become just a little overwhelming in and of itself if we allow alignment learning to uncover who we are at our essence in our core. How can we start to form some of these personal boundaries when we start to feel a little of that stress on our space know we start to fill that overwhelm we start to feel those relationships that are pulling and tugging at assume responsibilities oftentimes net we have to manage imbalance. We have too often taken howard presenting them. How do we start to allow ourselves to clear that clutter which prevents us from being in that space of interconnectedness than moving into it. Hasn't been tastic question so the first thing to do is to hold everything lightly. Hold everything lightly. Whatever you're going through really ask yourself. How much of my the burdens that. I'm feeling or the responsibilities. I'm feeling are true. And how much of them are self-generated. Am i feeling somewhere unconsciously. As though. I'm not i'm not contributing to the world therefore i'm projecting that fear out into my family. They need me. They need me. They must be there for them. And maybe they don't maybe they just need you that much in fact in a frigging break so holding it lightly means really dry and this is where the body becomes so important. Drop into the body. Where are you feeling to feel so when you start to feel you said overwhelm which is such a great one little so many of us experience and what does that feel like to you. I'm gonna ask you jeffrey when you feel overwhelmed. How does that show up for you. Start to feeling of blood pressure. Rise when i start to move into that somewhat less frequently now guys. I've learned to manage these starts. Feel that blood pressure is believes that mental clarity for me. Start to get a little. Nation is abandoned for me right so those are those are some of the key indicators in for me now having built this awareness in myself now mabel to start to see those signals anticipate a little bit and say hey this is signaling something. Something is going off course. Let's start to nejat needle back beautiful. Yeah so being aware of what's happening to you is the first step right. Awareness is key so when you start to feel those okay so. I'm losing my mental clarity. My blood pressure's rising let me drop into my body. Let me take just a few minutes. Go into a room where there's nobody around and drop in. What is my body doing right now. While i feel my heart beating okay sitting with that what else. My stomach is gurgling a little bit okay. Fine you know. My head is pounding good. We're just going to sit with it. And with my patients i do. What's called a self alignment meditation. Which has some steps to it. But the long and short of it is this. You'd take a breath and you drop in and you really visualize what's going on internally. Where in your body are you feeling what you're feeling. What does it look like if you were to paint it or draw it. What would it look like. Oh it's like this black mass of smoke it's really dense and it's moving up and down and you know in my chest. Whatever okay so then you name it. Okay this naming this overwhelm okay. And it's moving up into my head great so once you've named it than you can put hand on your chest hand on your belly or wherever it is and you welcome that feeling you say. Welcome overwhelm so. Why are we doing that. Welcome were saying. I see you what we all want see. Want to be seen heard believed in all those things right so that goes for all of our emotions as well. So when we're experiencing something and here's one thing that we know is true. All emotions are transient. Wouldn't it be great if we could stay in. A in a blissful orgasmic state twenty four seven but we don't really feel feel it acknowledged recognize it. Release it right. Let it release itself. I think that's that's the key it will on its own dissipate. But when you're willing to go to the uncomfortable place and give it love and give it welcoming welcome over one then it starts So those are some of the first steps that you can do is is recognizing what's going on and facing it because we know this because we've all made this mistake you. This is an icky feeling. I don't like it. Let me go play chess or run around the block or go to work or if you have a sandwich and it'll go away but that's not what happens. It comes back louder. Why because it wants your attention because it wants to be dealt with wants to be heard and seen and cared for and loved. There's no aspect of ourselves that is trying to kill us. It's only trying to get us to align again often. We move into that space of identifying exactly that emotion you know we actually take that either owning it or completely say that is who and what we are. You know this is my anxiety. Jury is your state of experiencing that anxiety bit. Are you constantly putting as point of reference that that is where i start to relate from. Are you starting experience. That stuck in that exactly. And that's what holding it lightly means if tae this isn't permanent. This is not who i am. This is what's moving through me right now right and that allows you to say okay so to get back to what you were saying. Well there are these people who need me there. These things i need to do. The united can't check out from the world. Now you don't you can't really deeply in because there's nothing to be afraid of this leinen confidently. Yeah so what. We start to identify some of these behaviors. We're starting to recognize some these patterns. What are some of the habits and practices. We can start to form to create that new space of being first and foremost we have to create that sacred space of who and what we are really start to recognize who and what we are. Let's go from that angle. How do we recognize who and what we are well for that understanding. Yeah so part of it is to listen to shut out everything we were talking about. Societal pressures the general cultural way of doing things ask geoffrey. Geoffrey want you know what is rachel want. What's right for me. If i check in with my body i say a. That's opening me. That's good. I'm gonna do that thing versus trepidation about that. I don't know. I feel like i should do that. That's when we get real. That's when begin to suffer so one of the ways to find out who you are is to listen to the voice and that's right and that involves getting quiet that involves encouraging yourself to drop in deeply. I'm already hearing in my ears. The yeah buts yet. But i don't trust myself you know but that's part of it to remember. This is a practice and just like any practice. You're not gonna get it right the first time and that's okay so often that can't be true. You know so so little. Do we lean into things in just instantly become masterful in it so sell rang. Do we just wake up one day. And it's their practices key. What happens with practice. You know we change. We evolve sometimes the practices and pretty now but it can be in there. It's all perspective right. Yeah how many times have you know. Do we sit in meditation. We just can't stop thinking about what to have for lunch or whatever. Does that mean you did a bad meditation practice. No you sat you did it. You know or or whatever your practice might be so being gentle with yourself. Miss really really essential be gentleness that's bloomberg at some of the stupid party language shit i've done and it's like i have to stop laugh even in that moment now as i get more comfortable in my being sometimes i catch my own stupidity. My own lack of focus. Whatever like the move stupidity because there again. I'm for a pattern stupid. No i i laugh at my folly in that. Okay simply where we're at night was bump it back and go where we need to go exactly and that's called being gentle with yourself and pulling lightly. Yes they're getting that gentle mist of. Don't call yourself just did subconsciously. Disempowering myself because words have power especially the ourselves we tell ourselves. I just did it. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I just told myself that that was a case of being stupid and doing something not mentally prepared for it. Not only refrain. That's a good example to go back and say. How do we start to refrain that. Now that i've caught myself. How do i real- that back and say was mentally prepared. It's it's comical. Look at it just by simply saying hey. There was an opportunity learn grow in evolve. That's the important matter at its core. Once we release the junk. Yeah and you can say. Congratulations you're human will. Thank you thank you. I'm grateful for for recognizing naked unifil algal beings and let me tell you something about being fully human. It's great if we were these. Non dual beautiful enlightened beings all the time we would have no need for any emotion whatsoever. We would have no reason. We were there before we got here. Now we're human in this particular energetic iteration and we get to experience the full range of emotion. What a beautiful thing. So if you start to see like even when we screw up even if off a little bit and pick yourself up and you say well. Congratulations you're human than you know. You have that sense of humor and you have that love. That says great. You got to experience what it's like to be seemingly jealous congratulations. You know what. I mean you got to experience just making a fool of yourself. Good good or crippling anxiety. Good but don't hold it tightly. Don't identify with it. It's just making you better able to experience the full range of of of human emotion. Wanna share a little secret with you today about podcast booking a matching platform. I truly love as a podcast. Host and guest. My go-to podcast. Booking app is pod match dot com currently have a podcast wrigley guest on podcast. Or if you're new to the podcasting game looking to start your show. pod match. Dot com is an industry leader. They quickly and effortlessly connect ideal podcast guests in hosts their processes super easy and highly effective. Create your free guest or host account and set up your profile. It's really that easy. And the pod match. Ai will work. Its magic in the background. 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Podcast and google distributes your podcast for you so it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership and everything you need to make a podcast all in one place. Download the free anka apple to anchor dot. Fm to get started sharing your story with the world to were moving back into that practice idea. We can't have stepped out of line with etiquette. Bumped it up. probably in. That tends to happen a good deal with me there again. There's a pattern recognizing a pattern. How do i handle manage that pattern in myself. I that bumping out of line within the course of our program within life for me often guides me to new idea. You know so. I embrace that. Let's embrace atlas. Let's get back toward that. Focus of practice. What are some of the other practices that we can produce and begin to effectively use to create that space of mindful. Know that such an important element yet so in my book celebrating solitude i talk about creating a solitude practice and that scares the crap out of people. Why would i want to do that. Let's talk about solitude for second and what that really means. Solitude gets a bad rap. Because when do we i usually encounter being alone as a kid when when you make a mistake go your room and think about what you've done. It's a punishment right. I don't want to lock myself up alone in an old and it's always associated with having done something wrong but what solitude does it allows us to do all those good things that we've been talking about drop into the body. Allow yourself to really make decisions for yourself. So that's one thing. Okay so great rachel. I'm gonna go sit in my room in what everything's gonna happen magically feel better no of solitude practice is really about giving yourself a gift of anywhere from five minutes to two hours a day if you have that kind of time. I know i don't but we do it. We can solitude practice allows you to select anything jeffrey. Anything that gives you joy. So what are the things that are going to awaken you to yourself in this kind of goes back in answer to your other question. I don't know who i am. Find out if you go sit in your room or go. Sit somewhere in in nature by yourself. What are some things that you want to do after mind will naturally wonder there. You know it's those we find ourselves even in the course of our daily routines in stress so often. What does your mind drift to when you're doing your mind searches for that. Answer my subconscious programming. Your mind starts to say how this would make me feel better right now right and that could be taking a hot bath in this added healthy. Feel better we have to also be aware to question is at a healthy feel better. So we don't nudge down that track right right so a solitude. Practice first and foremost doesn't necessarily mean isolating yourself and doing deep meditation although it can. I have a huge proponent of meditation but it has to be something that gives you joy. It could be doodling in on Doolan paper writing in your journal a taking a long walk in solitude taking as i said. Take a hot bath play solitaire. Do you do whatever it is. That gives you joy because why we doing that. Were doing that to retrain our brains to prioritize our needs when we do that. We begin to recharge the battery. You can't talk to your friends when your cell phone battery is dead charts so it can't you can't live your life that way. So that's why it's so important that you decide what it is you're gonna do and if you only have five minutes today what can you do in five minutes. That were just give you georgia. You know i'm gonna take my lunch outside today from work. And i'm not gonna talk to anybody and i'm gonna stare at the trees gay that works. That's a solid practice but the important point of it is is that you make the commitment to do it every day and five minutes is nothing is nothing. So ideally you wanna work up to maybe a half an hour. Maybe an hour if you can for me. I have child so i can do. Maybe half an hour forty five minutes. That's what get and i take it every single day without fail so again the question becomes what's the point of doing that. Yes it recharges your batteries. But why is that important. This speaks to the mosaic again. If we are acting as our highest selves we're actually giving back to the world so much more than if we were burned out too busy scrambling around trying to figure out. What is everybody want from me. So i'm just going to make one one other point that i think so important here which is a lot of resistance to creating a solitude practice over there are a couple of them but one of them. Is that selfish. I don't wanna be selfish. People need me. I'm the you know. So i call it being self ish. I'm doing with my aunt. Elsa selfish because you have to take care of yourself so that you can give back to everyone else so if you want and then people who have families when you saying to my room now. I don't want to be disturbed unless the house is on fire or someone. Put a fork in there. I that means. Don't disturb me right and that has to be honored because well how come you get to do that will you can too. And there's a chapter in the book about how to create salted practice with your entire family and the idea is you are actually doing this for other people as well as for yourself and that's a really important point before we start thinking about you know taking time for yourself as being selfish. It's actually selfish not to do it. Yeah we also have keep that in a waitress it. We have to be present enough to make sure we aren't weaponising. We art also using that as as a tool to leverage back toward someone else you know that has to be that healthy balanced and flow throughout our relationships and trust me. I can't think of one partner who would have a problem with the other partner taking a few moments themselves because the result is amazing. How much more patience in listening ability and presents you bring to your relationship when you've had a chance to be by yourself for a little bit you know. I highly recommend terms. It's as simple as having just need that. Simple half hour tab. Go away when i come back i will be the fullest me that i can be present with right but until then. I'm not going to be worth a damn an athlete. Maybe has the damn house possibly might be half you my foale or do you want my harry. No or mike glad asked me completely empty. I can't pour anything into you right to that notion again. Exactly that's why it and again. This is turning what we have heard about the word solitude on its ear okay. There's a reason why. I wrote this book and this was in my late thirties. At the time. I was single and really freaked out. I was never gonna meet anybody and i was like well. I'd better get comfortable with solitude. I don't wanna be this miserable woman. I don't wanna be like that. You know what i mean. I want to be joyful in my life. So how do. I celebrate. The fact that i'm on my own instead of desperately seeking validation from people around me in that call. Love is waiting to whisper in your ear. If you don't get out of the way and listen be quiet. You can't hear when it's truly there and sometimes you may even true love is you. There's that's the other part to that. You can be your own love our house. Get into specifics about how that happens here. Now that might be an entirely different show today that one. That's an entire that was when we haven't went down that road yet so we'll mark that and maybe take a look at that who nets a again. There's so many ways to communicate into experience. Love were not open for that space in any means four to happen. We become our own worst enemy so often. Yeah exactly and again. That's usually because we're holding ourselves up near to a a ruler that doesn't apply to us and that gets back to what you were saying earlier. How do we know who really are. This is how you find out. This is how you find out you give yourself the gift of getting quiet and shutting out everybody else's voice in your head and saying well you know. at least i know five minutes to two hours a day. I get to figure out what i want. I can pick up the other crap later when i leave. If i choose to but what you'll find is over time. The more you make this a practice people will start treating you differently. You'll stop feeling so called upon and leaned on because you will be different right because you'll be coming out with your true self your full self. And it's not our responsibility to fix other people or take care of other people that's their job and that's part part of the other awareness that comes with irregular solitude practice bleich looking at how important it can be to establish that idea down day whether that happens once a week once a month ruling more than once a month i strive for once a week. Fridays are are down day in our house. No damn work happens on friday unless it absolutely has to. that's our boundary. I'm all right with that because that creates bounds flow joy and happiness through all we do in life right. We get the other stuff done. We plan we prioritize. We establish the system. We establish the boundary five o'clock. It's another boundary deadline for me. I don't tend to work. After five o'clock i say i don't tend to work because that does not become a rigid stuck point that allows the beauty for potential for magic happen sometimes opportunity presents itself but if we don't move into that space where we recognize the sacredness of things we don't create that right. And what you just described as a perfect example of doing what's right for you and your adult most. Say no jeffrey. It's sunday that's the day of rest right. I take sunday that for me. It's thursday exactly find what works for. You don't mess with my thursdays in others the best now zakho make that president to someone else. They're not made aware to it right. And they're kind of in the dark about it. You know we have to shine the light. This is my sacred day to day. Lease respect that. If i can be of service later. I will be back around and i am grateful that you can be gracious to appreciate. And that's that's that's like boundaries are so important. That's a perfect example. Perfect example. focus to me. But that is one example of how you can view addressing some of those interactions because that communication role i feel is so important that ability to yes simply speak who you are. Let's look at that communication because that opens the door. How do we start to create role of communicating either the need for solitude or what that affect brings us we can share it with others okay so And that's a fantastic question because a lot of super maybe ambivalent about even starting a solitude practice so how are we supposed to like l. other whole. This is what we wanna to do. When i'm afraid that's the qb one of the challenges. Yeah well what are they going to think of me. They're gonna think i'm a free. This is part of what it means to create a world for yourself that you are comfortable with so how to communicate that. I loved what you said. Please respect that. This is a choice. That i'm making right that i need to do this. I always like to stress that this isn't selfish so you might say to someone From this time to this time every day. Or i'm about to go and do my practice or do my thing. If you're talking to your family members please don't contact me or bother me unless there's an emergency and of course there's an emergency. That's a different story but when you're talking about people outside of the house your friends obviously you can. You can just not answer the phone or like. I turn my phone off you know. And that's just it but when we are articulate about what we're doing and you don't have to get specific it's none of anybody's business what you're doing but it's like i'm taking some time for myself on this day at this time just wanting you know i'm going to be out of touch. It's like having an out of office message. You get that from your colleagues. Sometimes ride like while. I'm on the beach. In the bahamas. I'll be back on monday. So it's but it's on a regular basis. But what i liked about. What you said is that you're expressing gratitude for their honoring of that stack gets them involved. That makes them feel good because they are able to give you a gift in by just honoring your request remember. we're all connected in the best possible scenario. You're going to get somebody who's inquisitive. What are you doing on taking gonna go. Recharge rooms a teaching moment and you can say well. This is what i do in it. And here's how it's helped me. And maybe they start to do it to telling you the world be a much better place if we all did this. I think from my perspective. I'm going to say this. I feel it can be so important to use those. I feel statements because it's easy for us all to step into somebody shoes by simply say i feel i would be. We start to form that in our own heads you know if we offer that to others feel i will be at my best. I feel i will be arrested and better able to help you with your homework is a prime example right. Okay you arrested. I understand now what it feels like to be not rested. I understand the result. That's gonna come of that. I'm better able to help and better able to be me. Because i feel tired whereas the message we start to give in a general or more compassionate more empathetic way than i'm tired. I don't have for this. go away right. We hear because that becomes trauma point. The injury point hurts the soul and spirit exactly and you may come up in a look at little. Say the dark side of this but you may come up against people who don't understand and who sang that for example with doing grooming could run deep right. The experiences in blocks can run deep right. And so that's when our compassion can kick in and say this person you know this is also compassionate boundaries. Right compassion to understand that. This person is probably caught up in the some sarah of their life and can't chant really understand or feel jealous. Perhaps that. I wish. I could take half an hour every day. Well you can but you know you know you don't tell them that point is set up a life where that seems like a dream to them as going to disneyland or something the the boundaries are. Don't step down from what you're doing for yourself because you have to remember even if some people think it's ridiculous. The reason that they're being judgmental is because they're really looking at themselves. They themselves are coming from wounded place. So don't move your boundary. Leave your boundary where it is in. Have compassion for the people who don't understand. You're not taking off for two weeks an sitting on a beach ignoring your responsibilities to the rest of the world. You're taking five minutes half an hour. That's it people can do without you for a little bit of time. We get so caught talk about ego subtle in florida. The world will stop. If i go take a bath. We have to that thinking you know. It's we're programmed in so many conscious and subconscious way to relate to that very good that's a whole nother conversation a whole nother episode of a show. Sometimes the greatest gift we can give another is just simply moving into that space win. We recognize that in when we recognize. I do need to be present for this person. And say how can i be of service. How can i help you be able to do this thing because that ultimately allows us both to grow any right in the best way that we can do that is to you know. Put the oxygen mask on ourselves. First time we this chronic people pleaser are in that category of i feel like my purpose is being served. If i'm in service to others. And i'm at the bottom of the barrel. I met the last of the line. I'll get around to myself later. That's faulty thinking because it implies that people don't know how to take care of themselves and the reason that were caretaking is because we're literally taking the care away from them and we're making ourselves feel better right so it actually backfires let other people be responsible for themselves and you when you take responsibility for your own happiness in your own self awareness and whatever it is you do in your solitude practice when you do that. You're modeling for other people you have this ability to. You can do this anytime you want. Letting we enable people when we when we plays in we caretake. We enable them to stay small. It's basically saying. I don't trust you. I don't trust you to take care of your life for you. I need to be in control right. When we're in that sacred space we could start to learn some of these things about ourselves of these ways to communicate. That simple notion is often just that quiet space we need to say. I need to recognize how to speak out how to interact. How to be there in truly be present for you because when i am full your full and the very least you. You know the two of us being in presence together. I know at least that. I can hold space for you. Because i've recharged my battery. I'll keep my boundaries. I won't take on all of your burdens. And whatever. But i but i will be able to sit and listen in a way that i wouldn't if i was taking care of myself so really important. I'm gonna ask one more quick question here today if you were to share short one more. Maybe two more really crucial tips with our listeners. About how to truly connect in this sacred space or find that secretary basin yourself is there a tipped off. Yes in fact you just use the phrase sacred space and i wanted to touch on that. It's really important for whatever it is that you do. When you take your solitude practice time to have whatever space you have be sacred to you. So i this can look many different ways. A whether you build a small altar you know an altar where you just have a candle or maybe some some little figurines or photos of ancestors or things. He picked up on the beach. That means something to you and you just put them on a little table or on a shelf and that's your space right. That's your sacred space. You can create a sacred space that you go to every time you have your your solitude practice. That's a way of saying. I honor what i'm doing. It brings it really grounds it into the spirit part as well of saying that the choice that i'm making to care for myself which in turn cares for everyone else is sacred right. I don't have the space to have a whole room. Dedicated to ourselves is early. Don't we do what we can. So even if you decide to take a walk and you're not in your sacred space that becomes your sacred space and you can do that sometimes just with an intention just by saying i'm taking this time for myself. I'm going to really look at the trees and then a really listen to the wind. I'm gonna really listen to to the broke. That's burgling by. I'm going to smell the air and be present dot turns wherever you are into a sacred space. If you're taking a bath. Yeah light some candles. Why not put your favorite music on. That makes it sacred space. I love alters. Because they're like a standing You know a standing representation symbol of your dedication to your work and again. There's an energy that goes into that building of that space in that building of those meaningful connections right. That energy alone is so important yet and it doesn't take a lot of space. My son is ten. He's had an altar on top of his dresser drawer his dresser. Yeah so there's not a lot of space. There's like a thirteen inch by thirteen inch space. And he's got a matt and he's got a candle and like twigs leaves and stuff. He actually should probably clean that alter up. It's right now keep adding to. He's got his teeth. Fell out on there. And you know little legos. Whatever it is what. That's the whole point. Populating your altar with something that means something to you. Not what you think is supposed to look like right now. Unlike you said that is it makes it sacred. Because it's yours. It's important to have that we'll have to find. That's a space to simply be who and what we are. Where can our listeners. Reach out to you into your sacred space in connect with your book. I creating solitude hounded develop a sacred space to honor your highest self. And where else can they go and learn more about your programs and your guidance short so the book is celebrating solitude. As you mentioned he can get it on amazon. That's easy right or burns and noble dot com. They're still around but it was there for quite some time. But it's there on amazon celebrating solitude and you can reach me at my website. which is rachel star. Tate therapy dot com. And that's the site for my practice. And i also have a lot of resources there that people might enjoy. I'm on instagram. At rachel star and then of course there is It's are a therapy. I think it is rachel. Star tastes therapy to name. Show up. i forgot the actual address. Because i'm i'm just not. But i am on instagram and my website is there. So it's rachel is started therapy dot com and guess celebrating. Solitude is is available on amazon will thank you for sharing the sacred time and space with us today. It was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you for having me jeffrey. Thank you this truly has been a fun interaction. And i feel that levin light so thank you rachel. Were so grateful for that. We will do this again night. Pleasure thank you you too. John fitzgerald kennedy. Once said we are not here to curse the darkness but to light a candle that can guide us through the darkness for the world. Is changing the old ear. As andy in the old ways will not do it to show we discover dead an empty leonard provides light so cares the fuel that empowers your light to shine brightly so if love is not simply a state of feeling good. it's that simple state of appreciation for oneself. When we take the time to celebrate solitude and create our own sacred space we empower our mind body and spirit to become integrated imbalanced harmony and flood reconnecting with our truest self breaking the patterns of program. Expectation can often feel a little uncertain in scary to us if we let it take control of our choice to define healthy boundaries in decisions for our own well-being we embrace authorship and ownership of those choices. We begin to move back into a more authentic alignment with our true self empowering us to discover our light inside in allowing our little chunk of the mosaic to shocking. Thank you for tuning into today's episode. It as always we're grateful to share energy like with you are valued listening community now. Rachel and i would like to know what you've found meaningful in today's show. Leave us a message. Www dot the light insight dot us or tangus social media at the light inside podcast schering. What inspired you the most in this episode. We are grateful to be able to continue helping. You are valued eliciting community. Discover your light inside. Remember to continue to support the growth of our program by sharing feedback or leaving us review on apple spotify. Google podcasts or anywhere. You find your favourite show sharing with others. You enjoy our program here at the light inside. Join us next week as we discover how the masterful and skillful art of delegation can guide you and building your vision by empowering others with real estate investors pollen kelsey tompkins tune in to find out more on the lie inside.

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Special Effects: from Jaws to Back to the Future with Kevin Pike

The Screenster Podcast

1:00:59 hr | 2 months ago

Special Effects: from Jaws to Back to the Future with Kevin Pike

"Hello i'm georgie. And welcome to my podcast. The screens the podcast kevin. Pike is my guest this week in the film and television weld. Kevin is best known for his work in special effects on some absolute classic films including get ready for it jaws back to the future jurassic park hook fight club star wars indiana jones and more so many more kevin tells me about working as a busboy at a restaurant in martha's vineyard and how that led to him working on the set of everyone's favourite shark movie. We talked about his career. ever since. but not before. I get kevin to explain exactly what the world special effects actually involves if it helps to clarify. Kevin was one of the people responsible for creating the delorean time machine. If you know you know and has been behind so much of the magic. you've probably watched on your screens. There was so much. I wanted to ask have in like he met. The dog was working on beethoven important. And well you just have to keep listening. Kevin's work really knows. No limits so. Please stay tuned. To find out more his kevin pike. I hope you enjoy good. You thank you so much for having today. It's a pleasure to meet you. And i'm happy to talk to you about all the good history that we can share with our friends and fans and i look forward to your questions. Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to have you here on a c. so excited kevin starting way back at the beginning. I'm sure you've been asked this age old question a lot times but i read the oh career started out in a very unexpected way where you awaited working. Sorry as a waiter in martha's vineyard and that's how you came to end up working on the iconic film jaws. Can you tell me more about that time. And how you came to be on yours nineteen seventy-three. I was working in. Florida has a waiter in a restaurant in fort. Lauderdale called the train station restaurant and at that time the oil crisis hit and a lot of people weren't coming down to florida for the winter. And we're kind of dried up and the next thing. We're going to look for other jobs. The bartender who me very much for my work as a waiter said why. Don't you come up to martha's vineyard. We have a nice restaurant cobra harbourside. I'm the bartender for the summer. Come up early. Get in. And i'll get the owner to get you a job as a waiter and so i decided that would be the best avenue. Night drove up to martha's vineyard. This was april early april and it was very cold. There is still snow. And so i went to the restaurant and The lady at the time had decided to hire just female waitresses and i took the only available stock which was being a bus boy. I hadn't done. But i knew it wasn't good money in a very kind of quiet time for the restaurant is before the summer season opens up. It wasn't a lot of people in there. An in between good friday and easter we can. I met saturday. Party is six gentlemen came in and they started talking and had a lot of energy a lot of excitement and everything they were talking about an. I could hear little tidbits of stories about movies everything so i paid attention to my took. Good care of them all night long and they were kind of oblivious to anything else that was going around about him. It's always like the crap table in vegas has always making all annoys. The rest of the people are clearly planning khokar is something and they had a great time and then they laughed at the end of the evening. My job was to bus of the table and in doing so. I found a valise bag underneath the table. And so i tried to run it out to the parking lot. See if i can catch them before. They drove away but they were guest on the island just had to walk to their little hotels in the area and i said to them. Did anybody leave this under the table and one gentleman stepped forward instead. Oh my god. Do you realize what you've done. I said no. He's just you've saved my life and now it's in there and i said no i didn't look in your bag sir. He goes in there. There's the storyboards storyboards our son. And i said no. I don't he says well as like a like a comic book when when you make comics only we do it for the whole movie so everybody knows what we're doing and i said obviously well are you guys gonna make a movie and is why we're doing this and that isn't that nice said okay. Well what is it about. And then that gentleman said it's about a sharp that's going to eat your whole island. And he turned out to be joe. Al's the production designer and in about three or four more days. I ended up going to the post office on a whim and up. Came the coordinator for the construction. Me says rehiring tamari ready to go to work. And i said yeah they relates in nineteen seventy four started draws. That's amazing so kevin. What did you know specifically what they were going to hire you as like how did they then be like okay. We need you and we're gonna take you along like how did you then end up getting into the special effects department on that fell well. I lied very well. And i went up this when i went up the steps of the post office. This gentleman came out. He was the construction coordinator. And he said we're gonna start up. Are you ready to go to work. And i said you bet. I am. He says okay. It's three fifty. An hour is okay. He says what can you do. Can you run power tools. Things like that is like what cup stock links lumber and and he goes. Well you have in some other things and i said you just show me one time and i can do anything and that was my lie. And he says started the boathouse. Tomorrow at seven o'clock. And i got in line with twelve other people the next day. And we kinda all sorted out what we're gonna do and i got to be the labor of the barn. That had the orc on the bottom. Sharks hasn't come in yet. That was going to go up on the top floor. My job was to take care of the crew in the coffee. Breaks on the time cards. I ended up being like an office coordinator for the guy and we'll get the blueprints and petty cash and do all that kind of administrative stuff for construction department and i was a local higher labor. That's what it said on my check every week captured this line. I started on the bottom here that if there was ever a story of fate that would be one of the top ones. Because right place right time like do you think if you hadn't worked on jaws or being martha's vineyard that you would have still edge towards the special effects world absolutely not. I didn't even know what special of i had no idea. I was going to work on this movie. I had no idea that i was gonna work into the special effects department which was the natural progression when the sharks came to the island. They obviously weren't finished and we had all hands on deck to help get them done But at the original idea was. I wanted to be an actor. And that got derailed. They had all my books from my classes at college. And things like that and the short story is my girlfriend. And i figured out how to make a baby and that kind of derailed debt career like father told me that that i wouldn't be going to school took my books and dropped them in the trash cannon. Said you're gonna go get a job and so then. I went a new direction Funny that it is fate. It is karma it's like. Why were you at a restaurant when you were down in florida. You know okay the guest. This made me go north. It's kinda crazy so yes it was faith and the second part was. I didn't have any money and i was thinking we're going to get some money and i add. This thought that my father was trying to send me money. General delivery at the post office and that can beating in my head to go to the post status photos. And so when i went to the post office here comes the guy he goes. We're hiring and let's go work. That's amazing war story. I just absolutely love that. And so with can i just ask about a actually. I want to ask about the predominant. I see come back to the production of jaws in a bit. Because i did. I did that and i watched this documentary. I remember i was a flight. And i watched a documentary. About how long and unexpected. The shoes of jaws turned out to be but just to circle back special effects can for the listeners. Can you just explain what special effects in the movies and tv weld is. During the time of jaws the special effects people we're responsible for all the elemental effects on the screen when rain fire. Snow sleet hail cobwebs. Dust all of that was a main component also with their pyrotechnic cards. They were responsible for all the explosions. Bullet hits a technical work. They were also responsible as they came up through the ranks. Learning how to build products. Nick action props make things work construct. All the cameras can see. That's not something that you could just go and get off the shelves like a toaster like a prop master when things like that. So that was what we did. Visual effects was very simple in its elements. At that time it was some blue screen. There was a lot of rare process. Work were the cars on gimbal in the people are in it on a stage behind them. There is a movie playing in the back windshield that can be recorded by the camera. Alternate ways to the projector on the rare screen. That was very simple involved. A lot of it was photographic miniatures. hanging nats with art on glass in front to give a bigger illusion of the background of the things like that but special effects was nuts and bolts of what needed to be on. This set. anything you can think of from the wagon wheel falling off in the in the farm burning down was all under our purview declined. But yeah what's with joel is that that was the star of the show like that was the main event. So you must've really learned on that film and being thrown in the deep penske's the pun. Because that i i mean that slide read so much about was the the actual kind of croft of getting the shock. Right was so much wag. Here's what went down. When that movie came on board at universal everybody looked at it. They had a couple of other films going on ahead earthquake. And they had the hindenburg. In these were big special effects cases that were being done jaws. Was this little tiny film. And so the art director went around to all the effects wizards at the time and asked him along in everybody at universal turned him down. It says gonna take two years. It's going to be a nightmare. It's a big deal big project. You don't know what you're getting into. And he pursued that and he found a man that used to run the disney studios named bob mattie and ob said. I'm happy to try it. Because his lifetime had been in a comfort of working for walt disney and anything that won't produce he would do. I mean he was famous for this little air powered sola lloyd bird that he made and while loved it and said why don't we make them in all the trees on our studio pathways that turned into being the enchanted tiki room at disneyland. It was the start of waltz. I did it. Make part with characters and animatronic. So he had retired he was especially known for doing twenty thousand leagues under the sea. With the squid nautilus of and so he said yellow. Give it a try and he kind of you know. Put himself in to make the shark happen on that time schedule. And the story about the shark about working in the networking and the not working. Just disres- my heart. Because i know how hard everybody works to get it done. And it just wasn't done yet. Sure there was guffaws in front of the camera. There was mistakes and vows opening valves closed and things like that but it worked at. You know i jumped out of the atlantic ocean in thirty three feet of water with a high and low tides killing us boats in the background and waves crashing on jumped out of the water sunk about nate. A guy and it scared everybody and it made all the money so you can say what you want but he persevered and he was the biggest hardest working guy that had just all the drive to make it happen. He never wet nexia. No catch up the game and then they let start filming the short and they got a got a nice shoot for themselves. That's incredible. I mean it goes to show is one of the most iconic films still to this day kevin. Can i just say like again in the documentary. I've set thousands took about the later. Now i'm bringing to now. I read the People had to go on the water before i. I am so scared of sharks. I wouldn't even be able to be underwater with fake shark. Like that would just terrify the life out of me. Even you have a fighter down you a you have kind of got your head in the shark's jolts. I wouldn't even be able to do that at with. Terrify may two of them one one was when we finish the first row of teeth that we did And we kinda got together and it was looking kind of mean didn't have the eyeballs and it wasn't painted and so i kinda snuck a picture of me and my head in this chart a man. We painted and i learned from a wisdom award. Welton and he just knew how to make sure that the paint would stick to the shark skin when it went through all the abuse of the atlantic ocean beating on it and he came up with the way to make that work and he taught me how to do all the coloration. And all the dodging with the cards and we had to put in chopped walnut and silica san and give it that rough texture so didn't have gloss like a dolphin which really doesn't and it just helped brands alive. You thought me how to do. All the maybe the aging in the stiffling love blood work on all the tv's discard. It was a wizard at his craft. Dropped me wood graining marveling trump loy all these balance. You asked me about. Did i realize i was gonna learn these things. I called my father about a month into it and night said dad. You don't know how much find learning here. I'm learning more about every kind of thing fiberglass rubber last night draw electron ix welding. I was right in the thick of it or six months. That's amazing that is amazing. I just i wish. I could have a whole podcast chat with you. Kevin about jaws told you about the two dollars range that lets iranian you'll see is just the most iconic one of the most iconic. Cv's i've ever seen your the the other productions that you've worked on include but not limited to back to the future fight club the flintstones which is a personal favourite jurassic park. Yes silicone oil is i could just. It's incredible beethoven which i also love indiana jones. The list is endless. Did you have a favorite job to our con- if you can possibly answer that starting times when you start into a production and you feel this is nice. This is easy. these people are comfortable. it's not a lot of pressures not a lot of ater being shouted at demands being made and a lot of timelines and it's easy to give them what they want but those movies have never gone the ones that do well are the ones word that jeff rector druckmaschinen into the ground and gums up new ideas and said we're gonna change everything it's going to be on the ceiling and not on the floor or we're gonna burn and then we have to bring it back to live for racist demand or there's a script changed in the middle of the night and they got a new idea. There are times when we got everything ready and they go out. We're not gonna shoot back to the future. That beginning started with mardi being in detention and he wanted to go to his band audition and he had to figure out how to get out of detention and so he was in the classroom and they took a matchbook some gum and a rubber band. stuck it up on the water sprinkler and let it with a magnifying glass and caused the sprinklers to go off in the classroom and the teacher had to dismiss the detention so he ran out. The door ran to is his audition. That was it now. We had built that. We built this set construction our department. We had to put in aware tank for all the water. Because you can't get the floor is wet. We put in all the sprinklers. Everything on individuals alaniz water over the director wanted. Whatever the shot was going to be the gag network. We could ignite the didn't shoot one frame of film on that now. Greg really Elmich god's wow it turned. It turned into something very magical. Yeah which is a lot better. Which is the opening scene. In doc. brown's lab was all the clock's ticking all at the same time all at the same time stamp toast s to a smoke has to come out. The wall author has to drip out of the coffee. Mega tv has to go on the dog. Food machine has to work perfectly and it was all done in one beautiful smart or intelligent artistic camera move by bots meccas and director photography dean candy and we did a couple of good taste. Get everybody on board about what has happened. When and it turned into a wonderful stateless with a lot of coordination we had like twenty men behind the wall doing for national wires trips and plugging during switches. to make all that happen who want assemblage. which was i think a are better shot and then it segues to the computer Speaker so you establish that mardi plays the guitar because later in the past he's gonna invent rock and roll the speaker. That was a big deal. All the elements ever around. It was a lot when i right in front of the speaker. Some ira technics behind the wind all the big releases of everything the book as coming down. That's the opening scene as loud better than sprinklers. I think he was. That was that back to the future. One of your mice memorable job. That was that. Would you say that that was up there. Let me answer your question. Your question was which was your favourite film. Some of the work on the cv as they say. I enjoyed for one reason or another. It could have been location. It could have been that film. It could have been a tender love story. That only had a little bit to do on it but my point to you. Is that some of the films that you think are really enjoyable and really comfortable and you really like the people and stars and everything was nice may not be the biggest feather in your cap. Obviously back to the future. And the fact that i constructed the time machine with my crew at the shaw with some great import by the art department. Obviously that car is famous around the world. there's over one hundred seventy replicas built of the car that we created back in nineteen eighty four. That show was incredibly difficult. It didn't have the open budget. It was hard as jaws to and japan in all your hard work. Hard work pays off always does so. I'm bonded the ones that became well known but i know in my heart how hard it was to get across the finish line every single but it's always proved to be the ones that are the best. Another example is david fincher on fight club. Toughest nails demanding. Ron's it right now. Wants it reset right away. And sometimes you're dealing with a bunch of things. It's just happened that fast. And he's he's on his game he wants it on your wants to get as much as he can in the camera on feld and he set out to do that and he's notorious for his his forward motion all the time. I love the guy. I think he's great. I sweated under newsday's directions. But i got what he wanted to do. He wanted and i like that. That's amazing what about what about what it's like. Beethoven what were you doing on beethoven nothing. They called me. They called me and for an interview on. Beethoven and the unit manager hired me. And i said okay it goes. When are we going to start. And it was like in about a month. And i said i need you to know that i'm gonna be getting married. I'm going away on honeymoon. But i will be back in time to start with your allen and so the stunt coordinator but he joe hooker in myself. Were the floor in the production office. Working out this idea about the dog wrapping its leash around the patio furniture and the kind of shots that the director wanted to do at the time and we were playing dog and charles grodin trying to show him how he could do the setups to make that happen and went away. I came back the guy that was originally scheduled to do. The show was a favourite of the image that became available like an and they offered it to the director got replaced and the show move forward in another direction. I was fine. That's the way show business so very very little But when you see the scene and how it worked out it it's really enjoyable to say. I remember that you did that on the floor of the production office. Did you get to meet the dog. Nope wasn't there are course enough adult. What about drastic park heaven. 'cause i mean those those jurassic park i got called by special effects supervisor on this show that was working with stephen on jurassic and they said they want to start out with a cage. The dinosaur that comes through the bushes and few have this reveal and it gets bigger and bigger and a a land. The cage down. And then you see the i gue- raptor through one of the little windows and then the guy pulls up the door. War in the raptor grabs drags man and it sets off all this. This big bit of. It's nice. I can help you to that. I had a job because we had the shop only started back to the future and they knew had to space have the crew could make this very specific prophets. You want was honored to do that. Because it's opening sequence and i flashed back to the opening sequence in jaws. The goes out into the water. He gets pulled all around by the shark that which we did with reagan a built and cables you guys and so i was thrilled to have that association with and we made the case and he wanted to either be looking out a window and we had to figure out. Well we don't know exactly what window and we took a bunch of rain. The plastic rain gutter and we made holes like a brick pattern all the way across it so he could put the raptor i- anywhere he wanted and they still weren't big enough windows for the audience to see more of the rapid saw two saw the i we saw the effect and the guys screaming. And it's a wonderful opening shop in help start movie role. Do you have any m special savings from the jobs. You've got to take anything high in the end. Yeah i got a twenty five foot shark in my garage nice nice. It's not like i handle a lot of the props all this. It'd be cool. We weren't even allowed to take any kind of picture. Stevens always very specific about that. No cameras got mad. When somebody took a picture jaws he got mad when the et was a little bit too visible for people and and he certainly said if you're going to build a joined time machine for the show then you're gonna take off the law. You're gonna get your own shopping. You have to build it away from everybody. So there's nobody gonna be taking pictures in the main studio. Traffic is gonna go by and look in on their lunch hour and find out what we're building so that's how calm when not to shop and started it off there. Nobody was allowed to take pictures. We didn't have cell phones. And they had little instamatic cameras with flash than was a different world than so. Now there's not a lotta pictures and is not a lot of wonderful leftovers. Everything it seem. I did was kind of big shark was big discount walker that i worked on for retrial. The might break boss. Roy arbogast belonged us. George lucas and lucasfilm in so that's never never part of the deal of course and just click heaven on. I know that is a huge divide. Obviously but where does the prop department and on the special effects department come in on a job because you do often into wave with the art department with the So kind of what's your different ideas on still working out how to distinguish different departments. The department comes in design the sets and the set decorators come in and they dress the sets. Maybe there's a toaster on the kitchen counter. Kim and maybe the actress is going to heat up some bread so then that becomes a prop handled by the talent. So the prop master make sure that they have all the brand the right collar. And the rier dill or whatever. It's going to be the now that goes in the toaster it gets jammed in and it starts smoke smoker catch on fire. That's a hard job so generally speaking. There's there's the design world whether it's going to be in a desert or it's gonna be on a stage and then there is it's dressing and then the props handle whatever the actor handles. It's a little bigger than that of course but But generally speaking that's what they do they And then the effects guys if there's some kind of action that goes along with it then we get involved in manipulate the craw and then of course there's pyrotechnics involved you know. He walks outside with the umbrella that the prop master gave woman in the wind and the rain coming and blow it away. That's our work. Do you feel now with the rise of computer technology and things like that. The things will start to get cheated mall with like computer effects. And things like that. At times when i have the benefit of lecturing to students in the college's usc ucla or something like that and they have a visual effects. Thread that you can climb and bring me in to give him a counterpoint. And i always ask him how many cg shots jaws and they go through all these limitations on this and that in the sky and and all the water and i and they look at me like what are you nuts and i maybe later but in shooting stars something and why didn't we have any. Cg shots on jones. And they guess. While stephen wanted read it wouldn't have looked phony bob. We didn't have computers. Look at me like what are you nuts. You need to have computers i o. We didn't have cell phones. We just have big marine radio in the production office. They helped us coordinator but what had to go out to the set. You make whole films on your phone now and so visual effects awesome when they started being able to take accurate pictures on a monitor video monitoring them manipulating video image. And then it just exploded. And all the filmmaking time sequences the models and miniatures just getting better and better better and the process trailer blue screen to the green screen and and then it kind of went full tilt boogie overboard where everything was a visual effects. You gotta have a a hat blowing down the road and he probably could have done it on a fly line and a wind machine and then in the meetings it was that has to be a visual effects. And so then it got to look a little bit heavy handed in that realm. And you could start to see a little cartoon elements to it. And i think that they re address that they perfected it as they do and they realized that there is a great compliment between the real and and at a optical house and and i think one of the big proponents of that was michael bay. He was very very big on incorporating both worlds marrying together in a very very smart way and it kept being worked out between you do this and you do this and you need a little piece of this for our camera shot and so there's kind of a really good marriage right now because i i kind of feel is visual effects of computers. Going to start to take everything but it's nice to know that that wouldn't necessarily happen Yeah well well more. I mean more and more you have smoke. Oh which is you. Know the production. They all tracking devices on the actor and now they have beautiful backgrounds. That are all video and you can just change them pressing buttons the visual effects. I in his sitting right there on the set. Changing those backgrounds for the shots is a much more oria graft involved process with the actor the set designs all on these screens that you can just make a new world much like i can make a new background for this zoom meeting. If i'd like and they they have it worked to very good science now a lot of times should just a couple of actors on the set in snowfield is bindi blowing art where you often onset with the actors or with the director as opposed to being the white house getting everything ready and then it kinda sat. I'm back to the future. We had two gentlemen on the set every single day and when we had the bigger gags to perform your is many twenty of us on this step and in the meantime we're back in the shop prepping things like the speaker gag or the fire trails or something we have. The cars built pretty much before the start the shooting. But there's always new things that come along. And bob and bob like dream up good ideas and you know do some new writing and a new idea comes to fruition and we're gonna shoot and know the crashes the barn. There's a multitude of of work that needs to be handled on set where you need a decent crew and the other times. You're actually fabricating for the next deal. Some shows you're on all day long. You're all throughout the entire shoot. It just requires whatever whatever the dynamics to be part of the process. And that's all the time. When i came up they enjoyed having me on the set. I interacted well with the director in the first day. D in the direct with tree in his operator. I always mitch with downs right. When was right plays everything had been done correctly and so in that involvement in i was personable. They liked to deal with me. And i was often sent to the set as the set floor supervisor for my boss. 'cause they like to not have to deal with that like to be back in the shop building the things and then i just had to make sure that when it came to the that i got everything that needed to do to do it right for the company and played for the first five years of my beginning here in hollywood. And can i ask just briefly about the flintstones because that was one of my favorite films as well. The flintstones unhook so a lot of the scenes in that a quite dreamlike. Because obviously unhook. It's in a kind of the world and then in the flintstones it's in this pilot a parallel universe. But it's not in the naturalistic setting. That we all know was that. Was there a lot of work involved in the flintstones because the whole thing is of a different time for both slim's domes and a hook just like jurassic park. I was asked to come on board by special effects supervisor to do specific things in the look movie. They needed a lot of custom props. You just can't go out and get store. We response for building all the swords for the different participants. We made the tomato launchers. We made the turtle helmets. We made Neckerchiefs lies we consular making these hand props and things like that. That went through the entire movie stylistically. We had golden raving. We have ivory handles was very rich. We generate a lot of drawings in the beginning that they incorporated and that was costume on flintstones. They asked me to come in. Because i had a history car. Construction along with a lot of commercial work during that time fade on cars. All kinds of carnival and i came in and helped the crew at universal. Bill like barneys four-seater fred's car and we spent probably about a two or three months building the cars in advent of the movie and then there were times when i was in different locations through those cars being is as by to make sure they functioned. Well so there again. This is what we need a just as just make the cars and help us get the cars completed in time tonight. It incredible when you get the jobs kevin. You got the scripts the full. You did any of those jobs. You get the full script and you got to see exactly what you're going to be lacking on. I would always kind of cozy up to the director photography at the end of his show because they usually have agents. They usually know what shows are going on and they usually have a couple of tickles about what might happen. And one case. We're gonna movie with jean county the tog front a lot of work but him over the years and He said well we have something over at amble. And i think i'd like to your name in for nice it. Okay agree. I had worked with stephen before. I'm several productions. Mike was unknown over there. But i didn't know. Bob bob upscale one of the secrets that i elise tried to do. Oftentimes i did was. I'd call it production high maintenance johnson. I'm coming in for an interview. And i'd like to be the script and so i can have a healthy conversation when way up and muslim is. Okay come on over and get it but bubba and sometimes it be security and they'd stamp numbers on it so they knew who was getting left. But i read the script and i go all i got it so i'm one step ahead of the guy who's coming in the door before me your after me that he doesn't know what the stories about enjoy always tried to glean the story somehow in some way and i would go and prepared. Let's talk about you. Know and i was engaged already mazing as well as all of these films. I'm talking about as you've mentioned you worked on commercials and you've done all these other wonderful jobs in addition to that you have your production company film tricks. And you've worked as an agent four below the line talent so is your knowledge has knowledge of scripts kind of. Did it lead you into that area of the industry like how did you then come to want to go into the other area of the industry after jaws. They invited me to come dollywood because they thought i'd be good health. And i did and i got my days in burma and i worked my way up from prop maker prop shot special effects special effects biotech supervisor and i continued to work with all that knowledge i had done little bits of commercials here and there at the time. I done a lot of tv at universal famous for me we had more tv. Going on at universal. You couldn't get away from. There are so many action shows happening by women. Six million dollar man. Emergency hardy boys. Nancy drew on and on and on. There is always something that you get help you can either help on or your show and you do gagging get help out of the shop to make it happen. So it's constant tv. which israel. and. Yes i got to be on the set and yes i got to see the actors demoting yes. I sit on my smoke machine. While i read the script while i heard the lines of watch. The camera mood peaked at the video village and saw what was gonna. I got great training in doing that. Cutting my teeth on tv was a big boon for me. And then actually no. I'm doing features. And i'm working on very big shows either with a supervisor or i started doing things on my own and i learned even more and you get more involved with the production because you start very very early on it. You come from the very first production meetings discussed the location scotch and you're going to get a bigger idea of how the whole thing gets together. Postage just your viewpoint by being on the set for one gac after back to the future. I had this shot. That i now had to pay for every month even though there is no movie and so i would try to get commercials to keep it floating in and slowing in order to Make the monthly not nba. Continue to be available for the next big production. That hopefully would come in and make us happy again. And so then. I got a job directing commercials and i started being some of the key players from back to the future gammerman. The first day day is some of the grip electric crew and we did the fantasy. Bits for talent. Masters of the universe was the product. So i kept the shot going with either doing commercials directing models miniature shots motion control work. Whatever it was. I get a call. You have statue of liberty that six feet tall. It's purple ago. Wendy you needed by william new by friday. And i go i got one and then we'd go out and get the phone rain the sculptors carpet up. We hard code it. And then we banded up then we deliver it so it was that kind of resource when you have this overhead and what you have to do is all on commercials are firm bit. I did sixty commercials in the ends of the eighties. Early nineties i firm- bid every single. One and i never lost a dime and what does inside. Kevin for embiid is like. How much are you going to charge us to do this. Gag okay. it's not like you're working at the studio where they pay you your wage. They pay your rentals on your trucks whitman and your shop and things like that. This is wayland. We want this car to go off a cliff in some mountain californian we need to have it done and we wanna know exactly how much that's going to cost and you eat data if you don't get it right and i never lost any one of them that's amazing and so was it your ability to pull together different crew members that got you interested in then becoming a talented and so what happened is there's a lot of times during our Triannual raise increase with studio negotiations. That just got less. And less and less the economy and then canada started to be a goto place and a lot of the work went to canada. Where you know he's going were went to other states. Went to new orleans. Went to atlanta. Went to wilmington north carolina and so they were trying to find a lot of ways to use local higher labor and save on their fossil. Make in the movies and the affects guy rate at the time at the height of our career. Therere percentage wise. Who's just decreasing over and over again to the point where we didn't have a lot of work wasn't a lot of work for the people that were my age. Only the older established supervisors were just getting the top graham democrat and the rest of the guys were working for them or not working and as they continue to make their deals in order to compete with this minimum margin. They underbid each other back down to a scale price. That wasn't any good. And i had had a very successful time in the business. Five being able to make very good deals good deals from my guys. Get the money for them to get help. You get a better product. And an i made good deals for myself on a lot of situation and so something that was inherent in me and when the special effects people were really getting no money. I decided that you know what i'm gonna be special effects agent on going to represent these guys and if i can get them all together because they have pyro cards then the studios have to come to me now. The lads didn't on board with that idea. There is too much jealousy too much infighting which much insecurity and they couldn't see the benefit of my plan so i started taking another bullet blind crafts music video makeup people and and and i ended up wardrobe. Sound makeup hair. I had forty-one clients of all the different disciplines in below the line. I didn't cross over to talent. I didn't know that world. I didn't want to get into that world because it takes the right kind of management night. Didn't know it well. And i knew better than open that door but i moved up to writers directors and producers and I didn't do gangbusters. But i got myself alive. I made some money. I got some people work in that process. I started doing more and more with the writers. And i would go to these pitch fest story from london. It'd be a virtual Best that i was sit through and i started liking where they starting from and i realized that if you just do this because i had this rich background in reading all these scripts and saying how the actors do it and see how it would get filmed and the nasty. I was trying to do some writing on my own. Go with mighty is to be a director and i just started helping them edit. Wait for them to come back. Non online protagonist has to solve the problem. Here and i wait. I wait wait. I'm not doing this. Because it's too much work. And i wait to get money on a script by can't send anywhere because it's not good enough for me. So why would i try to sell it to somebody else. And so i stopped. And i said i'm just gonna help riders right well in the meantime. I do a lot of podcast in a lot of fan mail in a lot of people. Ask me about how to build a delorean time. Machine must be fascinating to work with you. Kevin because if you're a writer i think so. Many rights officer thought exist in their heads until they put. It's key paddle pens paper but possibly right with people and they'll have possibly people in the industry helping them out but it's another thing to get advice and be able to work with someone like you who's worked on the ground on the front line of all of these wonderful films and has seen such a huge variety of scripts that were so successful and you approached it from very different department from a very interesting angle. I think that must be fascinating to be able to act with you So yeah the one of the benefits is is that you'd have this intimate understanding the war way that the shots going to be processed so you can learn how to narrate that successfully with minimalism. It doesn't have to be blah blah blah blah blah blah. Not just cutler. A nice little sentences right here is going to describe exactly what the action is and one of the secrets that i put out to the the writers is i said. Please see the movie in your head. Please write the movie. That's in your hand and please see that scene and described that scene in the order that the audience is going to see it in the theater. Nature you put the right order of the introduction to the scenes at the end of the scene and a lot of people don't realize he's got a bunch of ideas and they're gonna have the sentence in it has to be blood and maybe he's set dressing some action ebb and it's just a bunch of stuff in a paragraph that as known flow direction to her. So i still pretend that you could go to a theater and you have your little controlling. You can start and stop and you're watching it and you get to write notes of the movie that got made from your script. And they've lost all the copies of the script and they want you to generate a script that represents exactly what ended up on that screen amass descript. You wanna right so that it can then be made into a movie that works very well on a screen. So there's a lot of thoughts but editing a story structure in the flow and everything about it experts. I have no idea how. I got down this rabbit hole but i seem to be able to do it well. People seem to like my input. And we've got a lot of healthy projects that hopefully will come to fruition. One thing you touched on earlier about how your route into this other area of the industry was in reaction to things starting to shift into pay starting to shift oversee. That was a time. Where hollywood was the big thing but then things started getting moved out and then things start getting move to canada. Has it really shifted. Because i feel like the nineties mine soak dividing noughties with life. Golden will time in my childhood. At least i guess it depends. How old you up things do you feel like things and the industry has changed like with the way things are getting filmed in belfast canada. With the way tv is more on the rise now than than studio films a studio films just kind of less than laugh and its muscle of like tv and things. When i came to hollywood. I have the benefit of starting always still had. The studio systems airmen was paramount. Warner brothers warner brothers. You could work for columbia Fox there is all the major studios in nassar you worked for. There wasn't a lot of independent. It was too expensive to make an independent movie by the element of having to pay for the film development and the film editing yet five film in it had to be made from silver nitrate into an image of and had to be cut. Get that was always a big expense. And you always had to get over that nut and obviously the studios that have been doing it for years so i i started during that time. Yeah there was independent films made but it didn't crank out his studios then everything changed and it became a new dynamic just the time like when tv came on board or sound came to movies is going through these permutations all the time. And then something like Comes out it started by mailing. Dvd's to you. And then they said well. Let's make our own shows. And then they realized the common nominators of everybody's dvd choices to figure out what kind of shows they could make. That would be very interesting and became a hit and that. Reinvented a lot of the way that we market in things. See things now and they're still trying to figure out how to lower the cost and make good entertainment. You see a lot of structures to temple pictures. And you know animation work in the films and big special effects and sequel after sequel after sequel embassy. Until you're done with you know thinking about the next number. Pick the movies so they would rather guarantees some box office based on history than it come out with something very new more. They want something new that will also lead to a temple picture history that they can use so it changes all the time sometimes. Good sometimes not so good. I guess lots of people sometimes to an extent wish that life was like the movies is sadly did when i was younger. And then you grow up and you realize life isn't like the movies but if we know that we copy the indiana jones and we know that dinosaurs day exist anymore. Why do we love the movie. So much what it. What is it about immersing ourselves in a fantasy world. The appealing escapism to an alternate reality. That emotionally takes you away and it doesn't hurt you get to go back home when the movie's over you read the harry potter books. That's just a a brilliant story that takes you into fantasy. Land that continue to work entertain people and the movies did do. It's a different medium and it makes you feel good because you have this moment of escapism or two hours in the dark that you don't have to think about but problems with your money or the car doesn't start or issues at home or you're getting along in your relationship and you come out and he'll walk. What did i see. Yeah i think it will. Interesting is that can be that cross. Save films can come into your reality. Like i dunno you watch film with a pilot in and new think. Oh yeah i actually do want to be a pilot. And i think well i find interesting is a tiny line. Sometimes where i feel like that fantasy can cross a radio reality. Just a tiny bit. You can get visibly moved. An actress performance. How many being wanted to be Butler clark gable. Right somebody people wanted to be errol flynn's swashbuckler all of the heroes and all the abilities. Then you can watch romcom romantic comedy and get inspired to say the relationship and how your relationship is working or not or the kind of person you say. And that's the kind of person. I'd like to find so obviously an emotional side. There's a lot of input that's lane from the storytelling and the other ones. That are more fantastical. There's a lot of enjoyment did being able to go to a world like book or those flintstones and say that would be a lot of fun and you get happy majority films are upbeat some tragedies in downers and things and you come out but it promotes your empathy and in doing that You become that other ten percent of the of the structure about why you enjoyed that sell. Yeah absolutely it's just much listener. It's it's an. It's i love it when it can have a tangible impact on your actual life whether it's just to inspire you to do something may be all make you feel less alone or yet take away to another place I've got two more questions if If i may yeah. What do you do to kind of separate. You'll you'll movie life and kevin the passan. I'm writing every morning with a student for couple of hours. And they're everywhere in. The world finds an italy the netherlands and vinik colorado and somebody in the valleys writing as sitcom romantic sitcom and tv different medium. So that's every day. I get up. I get ready. I turn on the benefit that i have is. I've never had writers. I i'm just able to pour out. We'll have about this. Let's try this and solve their problems for. You is usually very quickly. And it just comes from the experience between what i've learned visually in been involved with and reading the scripts and it just started my forty eight year and so i write every morning with them. Which is why we started minute. Them and then. On mondays and wednesdays when taking a class at the college on script analytics for plays because i have four ideas in my head that are smashing around that a work in the theatre medium. And i'm trying to figure out how to write those as well as i'd like at least professionally an attempt at it versus everything i understand about reading sitcoms scripts when i did a lot of that kind of work and feature length scripts and so it's been very helpful and benefit. So i don't. I don't know what i don't do what i do and i'm very busy guy a very busy brain guy. I'm always thinking about something. I'm always trying to do something. I always have an idea for something. And i like it that that's the way i like my life. I like to be busy. I like to do things i love. People like to engage with my two best programs of being able to stay on track. And stay as creative as i am is. I make sure. I sleep well. And i'm in a place right. Now is extremely quiet. Here is not a lot of other noise or things like that and the other one is i meditate at three day formerly and i work with my mind's expression to put me in the best place i can be emotionally as a human being and those two actions have helped me become the creative guy that can help people's problems every morning with what they wanna write that. Say nice they say if you meditate for just ten minutes ten minutes can open up so much more time in the rest of your day at forty minutes a day every game. Wow this so goods. I'm like it's kinda like yoga for the mind. Exactly yes yes the mind and also just quick. You're saying how you going put cost stuff. I am so appreciative of you. Sitting and talking to me. And i know that you've done interviews before but it's so inspiring and generous of you to share your knowledge with people and i know people like me and people who are gonna listen to this podcast as grateful the do that. So thank you and so wonderful the data and i'm very happy to do it. I'm very happy to help people in if they have one takeaway that meant something to them or they learned something or they just enjoyed it or they enjoyed some history background. It makes me happy that they're happy. Talk that stuff later reading awfully ahead. Final question kevin. What have you been watching recently. Yoga say you haven't watched anything on you. Don't think so understand for the last two years. I've i've lived alone up here and it's cold and sometimes for snowden and then we had cove ed and so yes. I'm a big fan of the criterion channel. I love the older movies. They're very respectful. They always get behind the scenes that our wealth of knowledge and it's just enjoyable just enjoyable. Is there anything you'll enjoy Flakes find that i generally get fulfilled more quickly by going to the criterion channel. You can start. The film was by decade. You can sort them by genre. You can sort him by country you can sort them by director. It's it's granted algorithm okay. Let's do that. Let's do that film. You're black white about italy. Good amazing. I've got a few net flicks series to finish off. Kevin of i'll go back. I'll go back. Watch criterion geno. I feel like my dad would be a fan of that low. So i'll let him ni- running running all the preston sturges right now. So help help. Austin said okay i will kevin thank you so so so much for talking to me. I've been excited about this ages. And i have loved this conversation. Say thank you hello me again. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the screens to podcast with my guest kevin. Pike i told you his work was extensive right. I really hope you enjoyed and if you do enjoy the show please. Leave me a five star review. I'm sorry go on about it but it really does help to make a difference in getting the show out there getting more people listening and just generally you know spreading the word anyway you next week. It means the world that you've listened. Stay safe keep watching the stuff that makes you happy by.

kevin Kevin martha kevin pike khokar indiana jones special effects department vineyard martha disney studios bob mattie sola lloyd sharks atlantic ocean jeff rector alaniz joe hooker Beethoven
Is your #SDGs looking glass half-full? Or half-empty?

Global GoalsCast

46:16 min | 1 year ago

Is your #SDGs looking glass half-full? Or half-empty?

"This was a year the business really stepped up to the plate and said they were going to get involved. I have never seen seena situation. Where almost every single? CEO and C.. Suite member have met wants to talk to some degree about environmental social governance issues. We do we know that the two thousand twenty s are going to be absolutely critical the UN science consensus says that emissions have to start coming down fast right now by seven percent a year. Last year they went up. Unfortunately we've seen some governments come out and show that they're dragging their feet like the American government and we haven't seen clay consensus consensus amongst the leaders to on political fence in this world today required for just the most basic needs people that it's probably not and the energy needs that we consumed at more energy consumers actually serving consumption that potentially could be reduced quite significantly without producing their world. Ease indeed going into to their actions and I've heard from a lot of people that are looking at twenty nineteen team mixed back. Welcome to the Global Goals Gas Awesome podcast that explores how we can change the world these episode. We take a final Luca 2019 an look forward to the Beckett. The twenty twenty right. This is our holiday special to you. Hear the jingle bells we are going to hear. Some of our favorite moments is from global goals. Casper's year including the most interesting facts and actions are partners. Have offered you yes. And for that reason I brought my very special voice. mysexy voice for these episodes so in this episode will ask the question that I know the answer to is the world getting better or like your voice. Is it going to hell in a hand ask it or maybe a bit of both now in reality that ease complicated because even if you're like a super super optimist like me. They're days when he doesn't feel that good. I might feel bad so to help us. Think about the year two thousand nineteen and about the years to come we will have a very special guest one of our very favorite sitters. Here are the global goes gust. We will tell you who that is and crack. Open our holiday cheer. Cheer right after this. This episode of Global Goals cast is brought to you by mastercard. MasterCard is dedicated to building an inclusive world in which the Digital Economy works for everyone everywhere by educating and enabling in these women they pass it on to their children and therefore that next generation grows up with a greater set of rights and education aspirants and later. In this episode you'll hear how mastercards digital wage project is helping women and their families thanks also to. CBS News used digital and universal production music and to Harmon the official sound of global goals cast. And we'll come back. I'm cloudy Romo Edelman in my music's voice tonight. Med lush and later drum roll. We're GONNA have a very very special guests. It's GonNa be Jillian tat from the Financial Times. It's such a joy to have dealing with us. We don't really think of off Gillian. Ask our guest more like family. Yeah because moral money was she launched this year if the F. T. Seems Moi Simpatico to the work that were doing in here it's kind of like globals cast but with charts pink and so two thousand nineteen has been quite a year. I would say eighty. We're going to break down down for you on give you our end of year forecast for where. The world is headed on spoiler alert. I do not think that things are nearly as bad as they seem. mm-hmm we are not going to hell in the hand basket easy. What about being on the highway to hell? I'm actually going to get you to sing that for me but maybe with your throat the way it is not going to. The failure of the climate talks did not inspire hope for me sitting here in London. So we're we're going to wrestle with all that and a lot more but what kind of year was twenty nineteen here at global goals cast have listened to some of our high points. The how dare you stolen in my dreams. My childhood with your empty words that the end of the day. It's not about solving climate change at the end of the day. It's it's giving a decent life to everybody in this planet Earth World. Human population is a subject that was at the forefront thirty thirty forty years ago when many people said it's the biggest problem for the world since then we've learned no it's not because problem for the world what counts is the raw number of people what counts as the total consumption rate. It's becoming increasingly impossible to have a stable world with DIG differences in standards enters living's around the world and the only stable outcome is going to be a world with much more equal standards of living roundup. Let End to set up a library and we acid children to draw a computer and could not even Pathum. What a computer was as long as you have access to connectivity? And we're seeing more and more connectivity developing world it is possible to actually access lots of computing powers on you can pay for lots of storage more data and in fact these software tools that allow you to do machine learning in one of the big red flags that I have is. How a particularly could accent tweet exclusion? This is the the thing that worries me. Most which is that we get a set of policy and guidance developed by a bunch of white men in Silicon Valley that tries to speak to the world. It's called a male Alan Pale. There you go. I'll steal that but that same technology is something that we're using to detect schools. We can pull a school out of a satellite image for example in in Liberia. Where where we can see through machine learning where schools are and that lets us understand where to send? quit -ment supplies material and teachers in a way that we wouldn't if we didn't have that data so so for the first time this year we got to celebrate the International Day of God with them and we give some computers in decoding less on getting getting to see that there must put themselves in these tiny books that was puts the mean their dreams are quite. It's very inspiring it doesn't Myra I'm originally that is only status. But it's never written on my face never eaten anything. What might Disney? Because I'm going to write my listening. I write my own. TORTY invest in them differently not just of development as we can actually do something they live and give them your Cuban if you use the term global Samuelson you understand feminism all around the world it is not only from a Western perspective. You know that the facts are so outrageous so extreme. The disempowerment is so extreme. Doesn't understand that we move because of these inside. We can't handle and people tend to follow what the media talk about migrants and refugees seen as people come into Steve Jobs criminals into result. No one knows what actual stories uh migrants you think should be told with police of open also providing training showing doing some youth that are interested in computers and computer sciences. I see myself as a peace maker and light dream of a place is where we are able to to live free of children going into armed groups like the way I did. You always see as a joke. That in the Dea Sea when you take your tomato you wash to throw the water you come a month after. So you have a tomato plant manatees. True it's not a joke. If a Nand is brought to the conflict out be ready to go back to DRC in a few years time not to be distributing food but to be buying food from the the world is exist forty five million centuries but this is really the first century. When one species human species he's can determine a planet fate will use more resources and we are having a heavy footprint which is affecting biosphere and and defecting the climate you developed countries? You created this problem you have to cut your emissions. We developing nations. You cannot tell us that we can't do what you did and I showed them that. Under that scenario Shanghai would be almost certainly inundated Shenzhen would be inundated and at that point I said so. What does this mean and what I heard translated in my earpiece was we have to leave the past in the past you may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one I think what we're really seeing it as well as many people are dreaming for a better well done we have currently if you want to change? The trajectory kind of collective behavior is sometimes you can actually just shift by the murmuring of a few birds right to start to Fox to move in a different direction. If you want to go first go alone if you want to go go together Jonathon friends and just the other day said we should just give up. It's over if you believe as he does that it's too late. People are never going to learn to cooperate. You are going to get to be right because you're not going to do a darn thing thing about it and so do you want to be right for you. WanNa make a difference. It's time to fight. This is not going to be easy. But it's GonNa be worth it. Wow that for back a lot of memories easy right. Thirteen fourteen with these ones are all your genius. I'm on Janes was therefore everyone of them and created that amazing reviewed. You must tell Ya that was amazing right all right. Let's start analyzing the year. Let's start with global political landscape. So I I felt like we were moving in two directions at once in twenty nine thousand nine. It's a little bit like that finger game. I don't know if it's Mexican or Chinese. I used to buy them when I went to Tijuana like you put your fingers. There's in and then you both Paul. Yeah they're Mexican their call upon Novus which is basically like a boyfriend catcher. Oh I meant to be a toy for girls so you put it on the finger of the boy you like and then you pull on. There's no way he can skate on until he gives in. So what do you think about my analogy is at the right one. Well I think the world easy indeed going into two directions and I've heard from a lot of people that are looking coming up two hundred nineteen a mixed bag on the one hand. There's never been more wealth more hills more people leaving decent lives illuminating extreme poverty as a former secretary general my former boss Ban Ki Moon said we are the first generation that Conrad Kate extreme poverty and that is amazing and at the same time pulling the other way there is spreading discontent. We're seeing rising political movements in the Middle East Iran. Almost almost to the Middle East right. I've been there several times and we've also seen a new nationalism or even native ISM infecting places like the US China Brazil India Eastern Europe and of course Russia. Hard to call it new. There I live in the UK and we just had yet another election action. And I would argue that. The Union of the United Kingdom is the biggest loser at this last election because nationalism has risen in every country including Scotland all land in Northern Ireland and. I don't think that this is GonNa Stop All signs saying that these will continue worsening. And I do think that that that sense of. I don't believe that the system is working on particularly governments are inefficient and on Ethica is going to probably hurt multi-lateralism massively and we saw the failure of multi-lateralism. Of course this last weekend at COP. Twenty five in Madrid bought what we are the optimus and we have to remind ourselves that multi-lateralism isn't dead even at this time of isolationism. There was a massive multilateral. Victory that many people including me in fact missed. I didn't realize until I read Marx's men of the Gates Foundation who wrote an article the other day where he he said the biggest news no one paid any attention to was the replenishment of the Global Fund to Fight AIDS Tuberculosis Malaria in October. The Global Fund secured occurred fourteen billion dollars of new funding. Who Yeah Remember Sue Desmond Helmet earlier this year it literally is impossible symbol for me to overstate how much Global Fund and Gothi have contributed to everything? We celebrate in global health. I'll give you just one fact. Since nineteen ninety under five mortality has been cut in half it is not at all an overstatement to say if if not for the Global Fund for AIDS and Malaria and Garvey for vaccines for the poorest children of the world the world would have never seen that kind of gains. Yes yes this shows how important political will ease I e Diaz. You might recall. I was part of two replacements when I was working for the quantified AIDS malaria. And I tell you. The newest one really was carried by President Macron in a way that he put his political will behind Chinese. He made sure that France was pushing hard to raises money. He brought in Europe brought his political will everywhere governments philanthropies business. Got Together together. Leon perhaps that's the new multi-lateralism so we start here. Because the greatest challenge to achieving the global goals is not logical or even economic. It's political. We have the resources on the tools to the most of what's needed on yet. We are doing it so we need our smartest thinking caps to help sort out. Which is why we invited Jillian Ted back back in? It's not just for the very special studio eggnog. Well here. In the studio we have the Mexican Poncho with wrong. We'll start enjoying as soon as we are out of the duly. What's your take on political landscape twenty nine hundred without take any kind of alcohol and I think we need it because that's been plenty of depressing stuff in the last year? Unfortunately we've seen some government come out and show that they're dragging their feet like the American government and we haven't seen scenically consensus monthly to act on a political however this was a year the business really stepped up to the plate and he said they were going to get involved within extraordinary number of commitments involvement from corporate leaders and financial sector leaders. And that's really potentially going to be a game changer. Whether that turns into action of the brave words remains to be seen. And that's going to be a key in between twenty but what is encouraging is that even of governments have prevaricated come split business have become much more unified a much more active. And do you think that they are ready well. Mobilizing business in my view requires really a threat of four-part strategy. I they have to wake up and recognize that they actually have a duty to the wider world other than justice shareholders and. That definitely happened this year. If you look at things on Business Roundtable and the statement they made about state. Coda Purpose Stakeholder Commitment Saas very significant secondly business has to have a framework to talk about what kind of action it good or should take and I must say I think the sustainable development goals have been an extraordinarily successful tool that many businesses have used to really frame that discussion that you can criticize the SDG's have been too cumbersome and complex but for business. It provides a wonderful checklist to talk to each other with thirdly they have to start actually sleep putting their money where their mouth is in relation to the SDG's and that she doing things and we're starting to see that action that a lot of impediments but they are partly starting to move fully business has to recognize the limits of their ability and that means they need to be very clear about what the Policy Sector House to do you rather them and also whether areas actually a better performed by NGOs rather than profit-seeking enterprises again. I think there is action on that front but getting the three legs of that stood work together. The government the NGOs and business is going to be another key theme for Twenty Twenty before we go any further. Let's take a quick break to hear. Another story from our sponsor mastercard on how they are making the digital economy work for everyone everyone. I know that women are important to mastercard spoken to so many of the amazing women that work doc for mastercard. I wonder in your words why it's important that you and mastercard helped benefit women. Women especially in emerging markets sure significantly more at risk than their male counterparts there especially more risk when they're paying cash wages have less control of it there at greater risk of being pick pocketed. It can be mugged on their way home in these factory towns. Everybody knows which Friday is payday. They know exactly the journey that people people are taking some of these women travelled by bus or train or off for hours to get to work in some countries. It's also common as I've said earlier for for women to just hand over their wages to men in their lives but we've allowed them and we're helping them with careful training on how to talk to their families he's about digital wages. We've also seen a dynamic shift in some households in which those women get more of a say in how the home finances are managed and we also know that because women are so focused on their children in the next generation by educating and enabling these women they pass it on to their children and therefore that next generation crows up with a greater set of rights and education and has perations smallholder farmers around the globe are equally In emerging markets generally generally still in cash based ecosystems. So we have partnered as we've done in the garment sector with large urge commodities players and are working with them to digitize payments out to smallholder coffee farmers in places like chapas Mexico and outside of Bogota Colombia. And we're also now looking to western Africa so to take the cash operations out of the supply chain for for smallholder farmers in fact allows 'em to reap a more full value for their cash crop As it goes to market than they are when they have to stop through middlemen along the way. Thanks to Laura McKenzie from our sponsor mastercard now back to our end of year review. So the second thing that we want to discuss about about twenty nineteen is inequality inequality that seems to be the most important driving force for anger on for these trust Austin and for fear we not only the widening gap on money but it's also access to technology and to occasion so inequality has to we addressed inequality is bringing people to wonder. Is this system working for me. Is Capitalism ever helpful is globalization. Ever going to took my wallet and my home is democracy really a system that would allow me to thrive the UNDP said very much the same thing just the the other day. Inequality is the force driving social. Discontent in fact Akeem Steiner said one sufficient to measure per capita income is simply no longer adequate capturing inequality in the twenty th century. The capabilities approach the kind of education opportunities. We have the families. We're born into all all this begins to define the life's journey and as we look towards addressing the increasing tensions are on inequality and development choices. Outcomes the alternate to move beyond averages ages simply having a per capita. GDP measurement tool is not adequate. And we have to move beyond today. Because the advent of new technologies that threat of climate change are also emerging because major drivers of inequality in the twentieth century which is fascinating nearly because sustainable development goals the Geez created read it a broad definition of equality five years ago and he was not just wealth or income but clean water electric power education for boys always and girls and responsible consumption the way that Dr Diamond told US earlier this year consumption rates meaning consumption rates of water fuel another another resource of metals in the developed world on the average about thirty two times those in the poorest countries and that means that one American citizen has the impact of a world. Thirty two Kenyans. I mentioned specifically Kenyans because there are many Americans who feel indignant and concerned about the growing population of Africa and yes. It's a tragedy for Africa but as far as the impact on the world is concerned. Fifty fifty million Kenyans equivalent to one point. Seven million Americans can is trivial for its impact on the world the ultimate inequality that goes to the heart of what I was talking about with Professor Narasimha. Rao He's so cool. He's a professor of energy systems. Right yeah at my Alma Mater Yale University. He's been looking at. How much energy will take to lift up? The remaining seven hundred million extremely poor people including those fourteen million Kenyans living on less than a dollar ninety day. His answer is encouraging. What followed in general principle is that and the needs of poverty eradication a relatively small compared to the total energy demand in these countries even in a country like India where fifteen to eighty percent of people lack any of these dimensions of decent living standards which indicates that the buck of energy used? Today's reselling. More the affluence affluence in the middle class services such as driving in automobiles and flying and more conspicuous luxury consumption but not so much meeting basic needs needs and this is increasingly the case he moved to middle income countries like Brazil and Africa. So that provides more evidence that in this world today what as required for just the most basic needs to people that is probably not the bulk of the energy needs that be consumed at more energy consumers actually selling consumption that potentially could be reduced quite significantly without reducing human wellbeing and he echoes diamonds point that as as we become more affluent we become more wasteful material. Resources are serving a large non-material needs such a social status acceptance in society. Not and we need to move away from that. Because that's reflects a certain amount of resource use and environmental degradation that is not really necessary for people to flourish Jillian can we have a world. That's more equal that uses less carbon. Well that is one of the big the questions right now because as a tremendous contradictional irony in this whole inequality debate on the one hand groups. Inside Western countries countries are talking a lot about inequality and that's driving populism but of course the level of inequality between countries have actually been shrinking in king in the last decade which she good news overall now in theory that would imply that a lot of the emerging markets developing countries should feel deal less angry about being asked to do some heavy lifting and when it comes to climate change in practice however many of them are arguing quite correctly that it seems somewhat somewhat unfair for the developing world lecture them about the need to potentially curb missions and maybe hunt that growth while the developed world has already had the benefits bits of developing on the back of a lot of carbon emissions. So that's GonNa be very tough in the next year ahead but perhaps there's another thing to think about which is the hi dear of reverse innovation because what was thought to see is a wave of innovation in emerging markets in relation to climate change. The other big social challenges where people are taking out small innovative ideas which are often very cheap because they have to be developed for poor countries entries which sometimes at leapfrog some of the big expensive ideas being developed in the west and increasingly was starting to trickle back where ideas developed galloped. Mercury markets. Come into the West and start to solve some of the climate change problems or at least deal with some of the issues even though they've come out of poorer economies amis and tougher conditions that the end of the day. It's not about solving climate change at the end of the day. It's giving a decent life to everybody in this planet earth. That was Paul Polman from our episode about his new firm. Imagine Fed of course we do need to avert global warming so cloudy. Tell me a little about when you're at the UN in two thousand fifteen in how the SDG's and the climate agenda came together. Well they for separate animals so there were this sustainable development goals that took forever to be created five years The consensus of one hundred ninety three countries getting in to agree on those goals and meanwhile you had the partial accords were signed getting ready and there was a realization that one couldn't exist without the other and they were put together on their the twenty thirty agenda for sustainable development goals and climate change. And that's why there was so much debate about whether to call these twenty thirty agenda agenda of the or the disease but now that they came together climate not only part of it is just the center of faith and eat is urgent and that's twice the discussions of the COP are so disappointing either. We stop this addiction to co or all our efforts to tackle climate change change will be doomed. People have expectation that action was going to take place and that you'll see the decision makers taking decisive decisive actions towards climate change and I do think that there's a consensus that there was a disappointment about like the discussions of decision makers which by by the way actually emphasizes even more the point that we have about governments are failing of people. Yeah and I'd say that to say it was a disappointment as the the biggest understatement of the year because we do know that the twenty twenties are going to be absolutely critical the UN science consensus has said that emissions have to to start coming down fast right now by seven percent a year. Last year they went up. So is that even possible when we can't get governments to agree on what to do. It wasn't disappointment because of those every time that we need to get the world on board nor political leaders on board together to tackle climate change. It really is now. If you're looking for silver lining so there are two silver linings. Firstly the very fact that the governments have not pulled together at cohesively you might just might spur. More consumer protests in action and more pressure on companies to try and push but meaningful change and if so that would be good second possible silver lining is that the. US has obviously been a difficult stumbling block in the whole prices. Getting major government's on board however one big theme. I'm going to be looking out for in two thousand twenty days to see whether the Republican Party starts to change its language or mood music on climate change tool because although donald trump has very clearly said he's not interested in talking about climate change. The reality is that she a growing number of senior Republicans who are pretty concerned. And they wouldn't use the word climate change because that's such political dynamite in the US landscape right now. However if you start thought hearing phrases like environmental protection conservancy energy self-sufficiency pollution being tossed around a lot? That's a sign that actually the tone is sunk to change even if the word climate change is still too. I remember when I was in Paris. Chris for COP twenty one. It was really the French leadership that along with Cristiana. Forget as who really steered such a successful cop up at least thoughts from the news that I read. I wonder if you got a sense of what it was. That went wrong. This time round there wasn't really click on leadership chip unfortunately and really is a growing divergence in the goals and the degree to which people think his Nez goals is is realistic or not sadly the fourth topic that we wanted to pick which probably is at the heart on the soul of what we are hearing the goals gas which is a growing movement for change and these how we want to look ahead and look at businesses businesses coming on board and jumping into the bridge of porpoise on sustainability. I think that that's a great thing that happened to. Nineteen which is a great movement for Change. Say if you're looking for signs of change firstly in the course of the last year I've spoken to math of CEO's. Because that's kind of what. I'm paid to do my job at the Financial Times and I've been doing that for years. I have never seen a situation where almost every single. CEO and C. Suite Sweet member owned. I'm have met wants to talk to some degree about environmental social and governance issues. Never seen that before now. The signing changes we we at the Financial Times launched something called moral money this newsletter emplo-. We're actually that's going gangbusters. I mean we know it's got the highest in open rate of any newsletter. We've launched because our readers are really really interested in this kind of content which was going to be pretty hard to imagine a year or two ago and loss. Tiny vignette is that Brussels recently issued a hefty roadmap for green finance finance. But it's also issued a very big taxonomy of how you define green bonds and green products although the rest of the world particularly America USA Shrug when Brussels foles did things and say oh. Let's for signal. What is doing increasingly? I'm hearing people say this could end up being the GDP of the Greenwald. I'm but I mean Brussels. It came out a couple of years ago and drew up these fairly tight regulations for the tech sector and social media platforms which initially only obliged in Europe and people kind ignored outside Europe. But that she's end up setting the standards globally and affecting any company with a global operation. So what Russell's is doing in the water green right right now could end up again. A real impact on the next year in how American companies and other companies and financial groups think about green issues and essentially raise the standards in that people weren't expecting. I was amazed to see Europe actually pledged to be carbon neutral by twenty fifty. Now is the the news that came out last week. Ahead of the rather. Disappointing Cop Jillian. I wonder if you can talk me through something that I think is going to be an emerging issue issue next year. which is this idea of? What's the role of central banks in climate change? We now know that mark. Carney is the secretary. General's advocate Advocate an emissary on climate change. But there's a real argument or debate or discussion starting about what. The role is yes. Climate risk should be looked at by central banks but should central banks have their mission creep into shifting capital away from polluters towards Greener Company. So those are the corporate bonds that hold. I wonder if you have a view on that. Well I certainly do you have a view is going to be when the potatoes of twenty twenty background mark Khani. The governor of the Bank of England set up this group known as network for Greenlee financial system no price for snappy memorable name La La land anyway the NGFL's was set up between the Bank of England Bank of France and the Central Bank of China. Haina interestingly enough about two or three years ago and initially just had six members. They've now got three dozen members. Almost every central bank in the advanced economies has joined with the notable exception of Russia. And guess what Guess States yes grown although the US actually may end end up joining although the federal haven't joined the San Francisco. Fed is a advisory member and I wouldn't be surprised if the US doesn't join soon as well well but anyway they are looking at what they can do with green and the best way to understand this is to use as a three part schemer. I often use with moral money. Nia Platform at the F.. T. which is recognized that there are three incentives driving financing business in this respect some companies want to actively change the world. Some want to do no harm to the world and some want to do no harm to themselves. Hoop and central banks certainly want to do no harm to themselves love and they want to do no harm to the financial systems oversee and in that respect they want to make sure that they are probably measuring the climate risk threats to banks insurance companies asset portfolios. So that's very important. And that's what they're definitely stepping up and everyone agrees they have to do that and they also have to look at their input failures second thing is doing a home to the world I e not backing ventures and enterprises which are obviously dangerous and risky and damaging. And there's a bit more controversy around that but most central banks is day. Think they probably shouldn't be buying say coal mine bonds on the night that that are actively going to harm the environment the really controversial part is about actively trying to change the world. And there's actually a lot of unease and central bank circles about the idea to central banks actively trying to finance say renewable energies or anything which has wider social environmental purpose of proactive direct. Go because that's seen as meddling too much in politics now all. I WanNa get you guys to give me. Your predictions will twenty twenty be the year we see movement to achieve the SDG's coalescing in a way that makes success likely or or the forces of delay fragmentation and short term profit too powerful. Claudia what do you think I actually think that twenty twenty. We'll be the year in which a lot of the voice a lot of the tagline will be about action so it will be they could affection coming from the coalition of you know like the United Nations and partners but also. I think that young people are tired of listening to starve without saying action. So I think that. CEO's ideally ad L. E.. We'll be talking more about the actions that they're doing just about talking to talk. My second prediction about twenty twenties inclusion will become bigger. I think I've seen it now with a verse. Debt inclusion overall the world being browner more feminine with the bigger heart so inclusive environment will become more important Jordan. Companies will have to manage expectations about what they can and cannot do Jillian. What about you? What's your prediction for twenty twenty? Well here are three things things to watch. Firstly accountants will become increasingly important right. Yes I know the activists and Philanthropists and people who work could the UN and go. Oh my goodness accounting. How boring but was talking to see? The new breed of warrior accountant who are trying to force. Companies and investment groups needs to actually measure the impact climate change on portfolios and that really matters because once that becomes revealed. That's more pressure on Communist Act. Secondly secondly I think we're GonNa see the Japanese Olympics Twenty Twenty Olympics see Japan play a growing leadership role in trying to push for the STD's on the global stage and put a lot the pressure on companies to actually do things. Some of it will be greenwashing. But I do think we're GONNA see a lot more action there. And thirdly I think pressure on the investment managers listening vestment companies is going to keep rising because there is a new generation of wealthy millennials. Who have money and who are demanding thing that Wall Street names in Switzerland and London actually take action and we love it think that it's kind of mass market common people who drives change in in financial products in reality? It's ritual Super Richard. Drive the change and the fact is that song to move. Wow I love that. Imagine if you're you were like a Japanese accountant. Wow that's that's a tactic. Any what about you. So my prediction is that the argument over climate action is going to become stronger ahead of now yet again Prime Minister Boris Johnson's hosting cop. Twenty six in Glasgow in Scotland. I think we're GONNA see more cities. He's more businesses and more coalitions emerging to tackle climate change. I think we need amazing. Minds and courageous hearts to be tackling these issues and I think it's it's going to be a very challenging year for those who care. Since I had the British Jackson I will jump in quickly and speak about Boris Johnson and the UK. Because there's a lot to be depressed right now about the UK however it so happens that green issues as one area where there really is a chink. Blight because you already I should be done a lot of very encouraging things about building public private partnerships and so against the old system really could be a chance for the UK to show to use a great British. So what is made of until last words. Twenty twenty optimistic pessimistic. Mix gotta be optimistic date because we're the starving you decade and even optimistic. Then when can you be very ago closing with Brexit. I love that easy. If you can't be an optimist why get up in the morning. How how I love it? Honestly after cop twenty five and after brexit having to brave mind here saying that they're domestic me for change. I'm mixed for twenty twenty and I do think that it's going to be the year of Latino some super optimistic about the year of Hispanics here in the US. But overall I really WANNA see government stepping up up being more efficient. I'm businesses getting more ethics more moral as you said but I just don't want to have like the break off a honeymoon with businesses too early because if they cannot manage the expectations of what people have then is going to be a hard year. Okay now it's time for our year end special best of facts and actions from twenty nineteen first three facts from Aaron Kremer of Sr Saskia Royston of the UNICEF Social Business and Robin Scott of a political. We've heard from the U N that the world needs to reduce emissions nations seven point six percent per year during the twenty twenties in order to keep warming below one point five degrees. That is an urgent call corruption. My second fact is that last year twenty six individuals own the same amount of money as is three point eight billion people who make up the poorest half of humanity despite the fact that extreme poverty has been going down in the quality not has still been rising billionaires now have more wealth than ever before while only five percent of all new income generated from the global growth trickles down to the poorest sixty percent new world where jobs increasingly being lost automation. The International Labor Organization investigates that the Green Economy could create twenty four million jobs by twenty thirty and now three actions from Chris Fabien of UNICEF Innovation Mohammed Hamadya of UNDP and nuttiest Debbie of UNISEM. First of all. Please if you haven't signed up for Finland's online course course on artificial intelligence it's called elements of Ai and you can find it through a quick. Google search support the transformation of Africa not through aid and only through trade and other aspects relationship between Africa neuropathy to be one of mutual beneficial system. mm-hmm structurally transform. Africa is one of the things that will then allow young people to want to stay on countries that option support would you to speak up and he had them. Whatever you're working on whatever you're designing whatever you're promoting remember that one point eight billion people in your potential audience a AH children and youth and that ninety percent of these different developing countries this group has lots to say listening can both improve your work and their lives? Sir Thank you all our partners that have shared facts and actions in twenty nine thousand nine hundred and thank you Jillian for joining us and all Arbogast who shared their insights and stories with us this year. I'm thanks do you to you or your your listener. Thank you for listening. Please like them subscribers via ideas or wherever you get your Gazprom and follow us on Social Media Adler global goals cast on a very personal special things to the wonderful team of global goals. Scott that has made these an incredible second year that we have from from our editorial guru Mike Rescuers to Charles worth a lot to Simon Jane Eddy Lauch and Tina and Michelle and everybody supporting supporting us all around the world. Cue Thank you so much for these wonderful team when you have a wonderful team you produce wonderful things. Thank you for being with us this year. See you next. Thank you to you. Klaudia and global goals cast was hosted by EADIE Losch and Claudio. Romo adult men are editorial guru by microscopes editing and sound production by Simon James. Our operations director is Michelle Kube Rider and our interns. Tina has story and Britney cigarette music in this episode was courtesy of Universal Production Music. 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Celebrating Solitude: How to Develop a Sacred Space to Honor Your True Self with Rachel Astarte

The Light Inside

52:08 min | 5 months ago

Celebrating Solitude: How to Develop a Sacred Space to Honor Your True Self with Rachel Astarte

"Hello and thank you for joining us. I am your host so full business leadership coach. Jeffrey be sicker. We are all on the journey to discover the light inside that beacon which gauges to live our truest most authentic self. This is episode zero zero six three. It's not selfish to love yourself. Take care of yourself into make your happiness of priority. In fact it's a necessity the world out. There can often become a crazy busy and stressful plates. If we let it have you ever encountered someone who is incredibly giving we clearly emotionally fried pumped in this person wears the mask of perpetual exasperation over how happily happily busy they are giving in doing the last tiny pieces of there being shared with everyone. Everyone that is but themselves from today's episode arbogast author trans personal psychotherapist in transformational coach. Rachel starting will share a practical guide exploring how developing a regular solitude practice engages your ability to become more authentic wheel lined three needs to be in the present moment. While flowing effortlessly in alignment within the essence of your being in all the rachel shares. How creating a sacred space for yourself and placing importance on self care freezes from the patterns and ways of bean which often lead us towards overwork mental and physical fatigue stress an ultimate bernau being more aware of the internal patterns often preventing us from seeing our larger tapestry frees us to see the mosaic of who and what we are bracing or sacred space honorine or proof and practicing self love can often feel challenging taking the time to nurture our wellbeing in our happiness while getting in touch with ourselves we practice self love so we could push through our limiting beliefs and live a life that truly shocked tune in to find out how to develop a sacred space create more time. Doing what truly makes you so happy on the light inside. Today's episode is sponsored by anka. If you haven't heard about anka it's easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain. It's your free platform for podcasting. Anka has creation tools. That allow you to record an editorial podcast right from your phone or computer. So it's super easy to create your own. Podcast and anka will distribute podcast. You sell it can be heard on spotify apple podcast and many more. You can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership. Anka is everything you need to make a podcast all in one place. Download the free anka apple guy to dot. Fm to get started sharing your story with the world today show our guest author trans personal psychotherapist and transformational coach. Rachel is starter. Shares with us the habits and practices we can undertake empowering us to create and develop sacred space of solitude in our daily lives. Many of us can reach a point where we feel stuck overwhelmed in adder wit's end first of all if this is you there is hope you can regain a sense of bouncing harmony in your life and second of all. You're not alone. Almost all of us will find ourselves feeling a little over stress and in the throes of out at some point in our lives. Rachel is here today. Teach how celebrating solitude in setting boundaries to reclaim the sacred space is such a crucial habit to develop allowing us to break free of the grips of our daily routines. Well rachel how're you. I'm well how are you doing. Fantastic off to a great start on this monday afternoon now to start off well on monday signed for the week yes it is so i know we are on somewhat of a limited time frame. Have to keep it very concise. So i am already to dive in when you are he. S correct also. We'll great. I'm excited for this conversation. We've had it on the books for a while. i'm here roll right in. We're going to be looking at a practical guide to exploring how to develop regular solid to practice to the lines within our authentic self and finding that sense of sometimes they hire so. I feel that can be so frene to be in the present moment win hers. Elsa daily flowing effortlessly alignment within that essence of our being in all that we do want to start by taking a look at how to begin to be aware of how this looks in our daily life. How do we start to recognize when we are heading off course a little in feeling out of about. That's a great question when we start to feel as though things are out of our control and we may feel like our lives just aren't going the way that we want them to go. And then we start kicking ourselves and you know questioning. What do i need to do to get back on track. Would i need to do to get things Going my way again. Sometimes that's a. That's that little spark of what i call misalignment in the self and sometimes it shows up as a general sense of discomfort in your own life and discomfort in our own lives while a lot of us feel that sure no big deal and then some of that's normal. That'll just help us to get on track. And that's the point is that we get to this place where we feel. As though we're losing ourselves agency like the world is happening around us and we don't know how to get grounded and we don't know how to get back in control controls a tricky word because we can't control the world around us but what we can control how we manage. What comes our way. So a general sense to recap a general sense of being out of alignment with yourself. You feel unbalanced Yeah and that can show up in many different ways. Things aren't going your way relationships. You're having trouble communicating. maybe at work. You're feeling stagnant. If you're a creative person you might have a block. Whatever it is. What's lacking in that. Moment is a connection to your deepest self if that makes sense if we look at that aspect and starting to recognize that what are some of the potential signs and symptoms that we can experience mentally physically emotionally as we look into that you know we start to get these internal and of indicator points saying. Hey we're straying off of our true. Yeah so some symptoms would be self doubt right now. Some self doubt is great. Keeps us humble. It makes us question. Are we at the top of our game. can we do better when self-doubt gets to be a dysfunctional is when we start to listen to that voice. Start to begin to develop low self esteem. All i'm not good enough. You know that that nagging voice the negative self talk. That says yeah. Don't bother the saboteur. Right the person who yourself sabotage mechanism that says nia no. Don't even bother trying to do that. You'll probably screw it up. So some indicators are self doubt that is dysfunctional. That's not moving you forward. It's not opening. You like opening you to be a better person. It's closing you down. so another indicator would be exhaustion. Just burn out. Yeah like i'm giving. And giving and giving and i'm freaking exhausted and i don't know why people need me. People rely on me. My family relies on me. My kids rely on me my my colleagues. My friends rely on me trying to check all those boxes so often we get so caught in that focus of just going through that process of checking the boxes. We get stuck in that pattern ringing in. Forget it's time to check the box for us. Exactly and Book celebrating solitude. Talk about it's like having a party and filling everyone's glass with an empty pitcher you know and so what solitude practice will do is help you fill that pitcher but we'll get to that minutes so we're still talking about the symptoms right so it's another part of it and self doubt when enough of these go on you made begin to develop anxiety or depression nannies or other symptoms. Where you're just lethargic. You don't find joy in eat to find joy in things seem kind of purpose less to offset that can surface in the body and we start to fill those aches and pains. We tired all the time and not as mentally clear air you go. That's exactly date fund. That was exactly the next point. I was getting to once. We had a thank you for that. You're segue beautifully into the neck. White wish fearful you nailed it so you are bodies start to feel that. And what is that about all great. Now my body's against me to know your body is a beautiful tool. It's the light on the dashboard. This fred said hey. It's time to ask mr tonight on going on saying hey change your oil. You know so if you're getting backaches you're getting ulcers stomach pain or if you have ib s or if you have these kinds of things that are or headaches these are perfect indicators that your body is saying hello my love you need to change your pattern man you know. Sometimes it's real active not actually nurturing yourself for taking a little bit of time for some exercise some kind of activity that stimulates both our body and our brain right and so. That's another really important. Point is that we can't separate nine body and spirit. We can't do that if we it's like. I liken it to win it for music geeks out there. When you have an voiceover folks like myself and people who were technology when you look at the equalizer right. You don't want too much trouble too much base you want your mind body and spirit to kind of be equaling out. Everything is a symphony. We have two. That's right that integration. Where we're working as one chorus one orchestra own harmony so to speak right so we absolutely true so the problem that we highly intelligent beings have with our fantastic neo. Cortex is that we take everything so seriously so if we have a bad day we're almost program to think. Well this is how it's going to be the rest of my life. Oh my god. What do i do instead of saying. I'm having a bad sometimes. We brokered the day ahead of time in front loaded. You know we get up monday. Monday suck we it. You know we're already starting to condition part of our brain insist that's going to be the pattern. We have right and it doesn't help when society backs that up with how they made that joke when we started feeling good on a monday. You know what i mean. You laughed at that. Because that's a societal expectation that monday suck a shining example of the generational patterning. We get these condition. Notions were taught from a very young age. At this is simply the way things are going to restart the except that simply as the whole truth. Yes and so one of the things that we need to do is break the patterning and that's really scary. Because if i start doing my own thing if i start thinking my own way to lose my friends i'm not going to be able to relate to be able anymore but in fact the opposite happened is that you're contributing to the tapestry of life in a much more genuine and honest way yes yeah starting to create that wonderful mosaic and what we all truly can be infinitely wonderful magical mystery. That's out there in the universe. You know we just simply move into being in all al things to become what they might be And we need to be. I say at the top of our game but i mean we need to be our true selves in order to let our little chunk of the mosaic shine. You know if you're too busy trying to be what other pieces of the mosaic are being around you then we have monochrome ugliness. We don't want that you know you have to be your own like majestic blue or vibrant yellow or whatever you are and you won't know what that is unless you trust your gut inner guide right and that's where we talk about the mind body spirit working in conjunction so i wanted to just finish that thought about like you know when not to cling to something that feels off like if your body you know if your lower back is starting to her if sciatica or whatever you start i'll great that's what i'm going to have for the rest of my life now no no back it up work with your body drop into your body. What is your mind telling you. Use your minds okay. I see what it is. I've been under a lot of stress. That's been affecting my my lower back. Okay what can. I do to ease that up. Call new spirit okay. I'm gonna do a little more meditation. I'm going to remind myself that. I am one being in all of the tapestry or mosaic of the universe and i have a really important part to play. Sometimes that role can become such a daunting task. You to what is my relationship with myself can become just a little overwhelming in and of itself if we allow data line learning to uncover who we are at our essence at our core. How can we start to form some of these personal boundaries when we start to feel a little of that stress on our space you know we start to fill that overwhelm. We start to feel those relationships that are pulling and tugging at us. Those responsibilities oftentimes net. We have to manage. Imbalance can hauer presenting them. How do we start to allow ourselves. Clear that clutter which prevents us from being in that space of connectedness. Then moving into it as ben tastic question so the first thing to do is to hold everything lightly. Hold everything lightly. Whatever you're going through really ask yourself. How much of my the burdens that. I'm feeling or the responsibilities of feeling are true. And how much of them are self-generated. Am i feeling somewhere unconsciously. As though. I'm not i'm not contributing to the world enough therefore i'm projecting that fear out into my family. They need me. They need me. I must be there for them. And and maybe they don't maybe they just need you all that much in fact take a frigging break. So holding it lightly means really and this is where the body becomes so important. Drop into the body. Where are you feeling. Feel so when you start to feel overwhelmed which is such a great one that'll so many of us experience. And what does that feel like to you. I'm gonna ask you jeffrey when you feel overwhelmed. How does that show up for you. Start to feel the blood pressure. Rise when i start to move into that somewhat less frequently now guys. I've learned these start to feel that blood pressure is isn't it believes that mental clarity for me. Start to get a little impatient. Battling for me so those those are some of the key indicators in for me now having built this awareness myself now mabel to start to see the signals anticipate a little bit and say hey this is signaling something. Something is going off course. Let's start to nudge. Needle back beautiful. Yeah so being aware of what's happening to you is the first step right. Awareness is key so when you start to feel those okay so. I'm losing my mental clarity. My blood pressure's rising me drop into my body. Let me take just a few minutes. Go into a room where there's nobody around and drop in. What is my body doing right now. While i feel my heart beating okay sitting with that what else. My stomach gurgling little bit. Okay fine you know. My head is pounding good. We're gonna sit with it. And with my patients i do. What's called a self alignment meditation. Which has some steps to it but the long and short of it this you take a breath and you drop in and you really visualize what's going on internally where in your body are you feeling what you're feeling. What does it look like if you were to paint it or dry. What would it look like. Oh it's like this black mass of smoke in it's really dense and it's moving up and down and my chest. Whatever so then you name it. Okay this i'm naming this overwhelm okay and moving up into my head. Great so once you've named it then you can put hand on your chest hand on your belly or wherever it is and you welcome that feeling. You say welcome overwhelm. So why are we doing that. Welcome were saying. I see you what we all want to be. Seen in heard believed in all those things. That's right so that goes for all of our emotions as well. So when we're experiencing something and here's one thing that we know is true. All emotions are transient. Wouldn't it be great if we can. Stay in. A in a blissful orgasmic state twenty four saddened but we don't feel like knowledge recognize it. Release it right. Let it release itself. That's that's the key it will on. Its own dissipate. But when you're willing to go to the uncomfortable place and give it love and give it welcoming welcome over one then it starts a so those are some of the first steps that you can do is is recognizing what's going on in facing it because we know this because we've all made this mistake do feeling i don't like it. Let me go play or run around the block or go to work and have a sandwich and it'll go away but that's not what happens. It comes back louder. Why because it wants attention because it wants to be dealt with wants to be heard and seen and cared for and loved there's no aspect of ourselves that is trying to kill us. It's only trying to get us to align again often. We move into that space of identifying that emotion. You know we actually take that either owning it or completely saying that what we are you know this is my anxiety is your state of experiencing net anxiety but argue constantly putting that as your point of reference that that is where i start to relate from. Are you starting to experience. That stuck nissen that exactly. And that's what holding it lightly means if this isn't permanent. This is not who i am. This is what's moving through me right now right and that allows you to say okay so to get back to what you were saying. Well there are these people who need me there. These things i need to do. The united can't just check out from the world now. You don't really deeply in an 'cause there's nothing to be afraid of this leinen confidently. Yeah so once. We start to identify some of these behaviors. We're starting to recognize these patterns letter some of the habits and practices we can start to form to create that new space of being first and foremost we have to create that sacred space of who and what we are. How do we start to recognize. Who and what we are. Let's go from that angle. How do we recognize what we are. Well informed that understanding. Yeah so it is to listen to shut out everything we were talking about social pressures the general cultural way of doing things. Ask yourself jeffrey. What is jeffrey want you know. What is rachel want. What's right for me. If i check in with my body and i say a that's opening me that's good. I'm going to do that. Thing versus trepidation about that. I don't know. I feel like i should do that. That's when we get real. That's one begin to suffer so one the ways to find out who you are is to listen voice voices and that's right and that involves getting quiet that involves encouraging yourself to drop in deeply dan. I'm already hearing in my in my ears. That the yeah buts yeah. But i don't trust myself you know. But that's part of it to remember. This is a practice and just like any practice. You're not gonna get it right the first time and that's okay so often that can't be true. You know so so little. Do we lean into things just instantly become masterful in it. So do we just wake up. One day and it's their practice is key. What happens with practice. You know change. We evolve sometimes. The practices isn't pretty now but it can't be be in their care. It's all perspective right. Yeah how many times have you know do. Do we sit in meditation. And we just can't stop thinking about what to have for lunch or whatever. Does that mean. You did a bad meditation practice. No you sat. You did it you know or or whatever your practice might be so being gentle with yourself. Ms really really essential beat gentle mist bloomberg at some of the stupid pardon. My language should. I've done like have to stop and laugh even in that moment. Now you know. As i get more comfortable in my being sometimes i catch my own stupidity my own lack of focus whatever like did move from stupidity because there again i'm full pattern is stupid. No i laugh at my folly and say okay. This is just simply where we're at now was bump it back and go where we need to exactly and that's called being gentle with yourself and pulling it. Yes there again that gentleness don't call yourself straight i just did subconsciously. Disempowering myself right. Because words have power especially seal ourselves we tell ourselves i just did it. Thanks for pointing out me. I just told myself that that was case of being stupid and doing something. You'll not mentally prepared for it. You know we refrain. That's a good example to go back and say. How do we start to refrain that. Now that i've caught myself. How do i real- that back and say was mentally prepared. It's it's comical. Look at it just by simply saying hey. There was an opportunity to learn grow evolve. That's the important matter at its core. Once we release the junk. Yeah and you can say. Congratulations you're human will. Thank you thank you. I'm grateful for free recognizing next uniform allah beings see not me and let me tell you something about being fully human. It's great if we were these. Non dual beautiful enlightened beings all the time we would have no need for any emotion whatsoever. We would have no reason. We were there before we got here now. We're human in this particular energetic and we get to experience the full range of emotion. What a beautiful thing. So if you start to like even when we screw up even when we fall off path a little bit and you pick yourself up and you say well. Congratulations human. then you have that sense of humor and you have that love. That says great. You've got to experience what it's like to be seemingly jealous. Congratulations you not mean. Got to experience just making a fool of yourself. Good good or crippling anxiety. Good but don't hold it tightly it don't identify with it. It's just making you better able to experience. The full range of of of human emotion. Want wanna share a little secret with you today about a podcast booking matching platform. I truly love as a podcast host and guest my go-to podcast booking app. His pod match dot com. If you currently have a podcast. Wrigley guest on podcast. Or if you're new to the podcasting game looking to start your show. pod match. Dot com is an industry leader. They quickly and effortlessly connect ideal podcast guests in hosts their processes super easy and highly effective. Create your free guest or host account and set up your profile. It's really that easy. And the pod match. Ai will work. Its magic in the background. Delivering your ideal interview matches within minutes tailored uniquely for you as a host and executive producer of the top one hundred self-improvement podcast the line inside. I've found more high-quality guests on pod match than anywhere else in in a fraction of the time. So if you're looking to expedite your podcast booking experience filling your calendar with high engagement contact creating value and meaningful. You're listening community. Checkout pod match dot com. That's vod match dot com today and discover your ideal match magic to were moving back into that practice idea. We can't have stepped out of line with etiquette. Bumped it up. probably in. That tends to happen a good deal with me there again. There's a pattern recognizing a pattern. How do i handle manage that pattern in myself. I that bumping out of line within the course of our program within life for me often guides me to a new idea. You know so. I embrace that. Let's embrace let's get back toward that focus of practice. What are some of the other practices that we can produce and begin to effectively use to create that space of mindful. No that's such an important element yet. So in my book celebrating solitude i talk about creating a solitude practice and that scares the crap out of people. Why would i want to do that. Let's talk about solitude for a second and what that really means. Solitude gets a bad rap. Because when do we i usually encounter being alone as a kid when when you make a mistake go your room and think about what you've done. It's a punishment right. I don't want to lock myself up alone in an old and it's always associated with having done something wrong but what solitude does it allows us to do all those good things that we've been talking about drop into the body. Allow yourself to really make decisions for yourself. So that's one thing. Okay so great rachel. I'm gonna go sit in my room in what everything's gonna happen magically feel better no of solitude practice is really about giving yourself a gift of anywhere from five minutes to two hours a day if you have that kind of time. I know i don't but we do it. We can solitude practice allows you to select anything jeffrey. Anything that gives you joy. So what are the things that are going to awaken you to yourself in this kind of goes back in answer to your other question. I don't know who i am. Find out if you go sit in your room or go. Sit somewhere in in nature by yourself. What are some things that you want to do after mind will naturally wonder there. You know it's those we find ourselves even in the course of our daily routines in stress so often. What does your mind drift to when you're doing your mind searches for that. Answer my subconscious programming. Your mind starts to say how this would make me feel better right now right and that could be taking a hot bath in this added healthy. Feel better we have to also be aware to question is at a healthy feel better. So we don't nudge down that track right right so a solitude. Practice first and foremost doesn't necessarily mean isolating yourself and doing deep meditation although it can. I have a huge proponent of meditation but it has to be something that gives you joy it could be doodling on Doolan paper writing in your journal a taking a long walk in solitude taking as i said. Take a hot bath play solitaire. Do you do whatever it is. That gives you joy because why we doing that. Were doing that to retrain our brains to prioritize our needs when we do that. We begin to recharge the battery. You can't talk to your friends when your cell phone battery is dead charts so it can't you can't live your life that way. So that's why it's so important that you decide what it is you're gonna do and if you only have five minutes today what can you do in five minutes. That were just give you georgia. You know i'm gonna take my lunch outside today from work. And i'm not gonna talk to anybody and i'm gonna stare at the trees gay that works. That's a solid practice but the important point of it is is that you make the commitment to do it every day and five minutes is nothing right. It's nothing so. Ideally you want to work up to maybe a half an hour. Maybe an hour if you can for me. I have child so i can do. Maybe half an hour forty five minutes. That's what get and i take it every single day without fail so again the question becomes what's the point of doing that. Yes it recharges your batteries. But why is that important. This speaks to the mosaic again. If we are acting as our highest selves we're actually giving back to the world so much more than if we were burned out too busy scrambling around trying to figure out. What is everybody want from me. So i'm just going to make one one other point that i think so important here which is a lot of resistance to creating a solitude practice over there are a couple of them but one of them. Is that selfish. I don't wanna be selfish. People need me. I'm the you know. So i call it being self ish. I'm doing with my aunt. Elsa selfish because you have to take care of yourself so that you can give back to everyone else so if you want and then people who have families when you saying to my room now. I don't want to be disturbed unless the house is on fire or someone. Put a fork in there. I that means disturb me right and that has to be honored because well how come you get to do that will you can too. And there's a chapter in the book about how to create salted practice with your entire family and the idea is you are actually doing this for other people as well as for yourself and that's a really important point before we start thinking about you know taking time for yourself as being selfish. It's actually selfish not to do it. Yeah we also have keep that in a waitress it. We have to be present enough to make sure we aren't weaponising. We art also using that as as a tool to leverage back toward someone else you know that has to be that healthy balanced and flow throughout our relationships and trust me. I can't think of one partner who would have a problem with the other partner taking a few moments themselves because the result is amazing. How much more patience in listening ability and presents you bring to your relationship when you've had a chance to be by yourself for a little bit you know. I highly recommend terms. It's as simple as having just need that. Simple half hour tab. Go away when i come back i will be the fullest me that i can be present with right but until then. I'm not going to be worth a damn an athlete. Maybe has the damn house possibly might be half you my foale or do you want my hat. No or mike. Glad ask maybe completely empty. I can't pour anything into you right to that notion again. Exactly that's why it and again. This is turning what we have heard about the word solitude on its ear okay. There's a reason why. I wrote this book and this was in my late thirties. At the time. I was single and really freaked out. I was never gonna meet anybody and i was like well. I'd better get comfortable with solitude. I don't wanna be this miserable woman. I don't wanna be like that. You know what i mean. I want to be joyful in my life. So how do. I celebrate. The fact that i'm on my own instead of desperately seeking validation from people around me so often that call love is waiting to whisper in your ear. If you don't get out of the way and listen be quiet. You can't hear when it's truly there and sometimes you may even true love is you. There's that's the other part to that. You can be your own house. Get into specifics about how that happens here. Now that might be an entirely different show today that one. That's an entire that was when we haven't went down that road yet so we'll mark that and maybe take a look at that who nets a again. There's so many ways to communicate into experience. Love were not open for that space in any means four to happen. We become our own worst enemy so often. Yeah exactly and again. That's usually because we're holding ourselves up near to a a ruler that doesn't apply to us and that gets back to what you were saying earlier. How do we know who really are. This is how you find out. This is how you find out you give yourself the gift of getting quiet and shutting out everybody else's voice in your head and saying well you know. at least i know five minutes to two hours a day. I get to figure out what i want. I can pick up the other crap later when i leave. If i choose to but what you'll find is over time. The more you make this a practice people will start treating you differently. You'll stop feeling so called upon and leaned on because you will be different right because you'll be coming out with your true self your full self. And it's not our responsibility to fix other people or take care of other people that's their job and that's part part of the other awareness that comes with irregular solitude practice bleich looking at how important it can be to establish that idea down day whether that happens once a week once a month ruling more than once a month i strive for once a week. Fridays are are down day in our house. No damn work happens on friday unless it absolutely has to. that's our boundary. I'm all right with that because that creates bounds flow joy and happiness through all we do in life right. We get the other stuff done. We plan we prioritize. We establish the system. We establish the boundary five o'clock. It's another boundary deadline for me. I don't tend to work. After five o'clock i say i don't tend to work because that does not become a rigid stuck point that allows the beauty for potential for magic happen sometimes opportunity presents itself but if we don't move into that space where we recognize the sacredness of things we don't create that right. And what you just described as a perfect example of doing what's right for you and your adult most. Say no jeffrey. It's sunday that's the day of rest right. I take sunday that for me. It's thursday exactly find what works for. You don't mess with my thursdays in others the best now zakho make that president to someone else. They're not made aware to it right. And they're kind of in the dark about it. You know we have to shine the light. This is my sacred day to day. Lease respect that. If i can be of service later. I will be back around and i am grateful that you can be gracious to appreciate. And that's that's that's like boundaries are so important. That's a perfect example. Perfect example. focus to me. But that is one example of how you can view addressing some of those interactions because that communication role i feel is so important that ability to yes simply speak who you are. Let's look at that communication because that opens the door. How do we start to create role of communicating either the need for solitude or what that affect brings us we can share it with others okay so And that's a fantastic question because a lot of super maybe ambivalent about even starting a solitude practice so how are we supposed to like l. other whole. This is what we wanna to do. When i'm afraid that's the qb one of the challenges. Yeah well what are they going to think of me. They're gonna think i'm a free. This is part of what it means to create a world for yourself that you are comfortable with so how to communicate that. I loved what you said. Please respect that. This is a choice. That i'm making right that i need to do this. I always like to stress that this isn't selfish so you might say to someone From this time to this time every day. Or i'm about to go and do my practice or do my thing. If you're talking to your family members please don't contact me or bother me unless there's an emergency and of course there's an emergency. That's a different story but when you're talking about people outside of the house your friends of easily you can. You can just not answer the phone or like. I turn my phone off you know. And that's just it but when we are articulate about what we're doing and you don't have to get specific it's none of anybody's business what you're doing but it's like i'm taking some time for myself on this day at this time just wanting you know i'm going to be out of touch. It's like having an out of office message. You know you get that from your colleagues. Sometimes ride like while. I'm on the beach. In the bahamas. I'll be back on monday. So it's but it's on a regular basis. But what i liked about. What you said is that you're expressing gratitude for their honoring of that gets them involved. That makes them feel good because they are able to give you a gift in by just honoring your request remember. we're all connected in the best possible scenario. You're going to get somebody who's inquisitive. What are you doing on taking gonna go. Recharge rooms a teaching moment and you can say well. This is what i do in it. And here's how it's helped me. And maybe they start to do it to telling you the world be a much better place if we all did this. I think from my perspective. I'm going to say this. I feel it can be so important to use those. I feel statements because it's easy for us all to step into somebody's shoes by simply say i feel i would be. We start to form that in our own heads you know if we offer that to others feel i will be at my best. I feel i will be arrested and better able to help you with your homework is a prime example right. Okay you arrested. I understand now what it feels like to be not rested a understand the result. That's going gonna come of that. I'm better able to help and better able to be me. Because i feel tired whereas the message we start to give in a general or more compassionate more empathetic way than i'm tired. I don't have for this. go away right. We hear because that becomes trauma point. The injury point hurts the soul and spirit exactly and you may come up in a look at little. Say the dark side of this but you may come up against people who don't understand and who sang that for example with doing grooming could run deep right. The experiences in blocks can run deep right. And so that's when our compassion can kick in and say this person you know this is also compassionate boundaries. Right compassion to understand that. This person is probably caught up in the some sarah of their life and can't chant really understand or feel jealous. Perhaps that. I wish. I could take half an hour every day. Well you can but you know you know you don't tell them that point is set up a life where that seems like a dream to them as going to disneyland or something the the boundaries are. Don't step down from what you're doing for yourself because you have to remember even if some people think it's ridiculous. The reason that they're being judgmental is because they're really looking at themselves. They themselves are coming from wounded place. So don't move your boundary. Leave your boundary where it is in. Have compassion for the people who don't understand. You're not taking off for two weeks an sitting on a beach ignoring your responsibilities to the rest of the world. You're taking five minutes half an hour. That's it people can do without you for a little bit of time. We get so caught talk about ego subtle in florida. The world will stop. If i go take a bath. We have to that thinking you know. It's we're programmed in so many conscious and subconscious way to relate to that very good that's a whole nother conversation a whole nother episode of show. Sometimes the greatest gift we can give another is just simply moving into that space win. We recognize that in when we recognize. I do need to be present for this person. And say how can i be of service. How can i help you be able to do this thing because that ultimately allows us both to grow any right in the best way that we can do that is to you know. Put the oxygen mask on ourselves. First time we this chronic pleasers are in that category of i feel like my purpose is being served. If i'm in service to others. And i'm at the bottom of the barrel. I met the last of the line. I'll get around to myself later. That's faulty thinking because it implies that people don't know how to take care of themselves and the reason that were caretaking is because we're literally taking the care away from them and we're making ourselves feel better right so it actually backfires let other people be responsible for themselves and you when you take responsibility for your own happiness in your own self awareness and whatever it is you do in your solitude practice when you do that. You're modeling for other people you have this ability to. You can do this anytime you want. Letting we enable people when we when we played them. We caretake them to stay small. It's basically saying. I don't trust you. I don't trust you to take care of your life for you. I need to be in control right. When we're in that sacred space we could start to learn some of these things about ourselves of these ways to communicate. That simple notion is often just that quiet space we need to say. I need to recognize how to speak out how to interact. How to be there in truly be present for you because when i am full your full and the very least you. You know the two of us being in presence together. I know at least that. I can hold space for you. Because i've recharged my battery. I'll keep my boundaries. I won't take on all of your burdens. Whatever but i but i will be able to sit and listen in a way that i wouldn't if i was taking care of myself so really important. I'm gonna ask one more quick question here today. If you were to share short one more. Maybe two. More really crucial tips with our listeners. About how to truly connect in this sacred space or find that secretary basin yourself is there a tipped off. Yes in fact. You just use the phrase sacred space and i wanted to touch on that. It's really important for whatever it is that you do. When you take your solitude practice time to have whatever space you have be sacred to you. So i this can look many different ways a whether you build a small her you know an altar where you just have a candle or maybe some some little figurines or photos of ancestors or things. He picked up on the beach. That means something to you and you just put them on a little table or on a shelf and that's your space right. That's your sacred space. You can create a sacred space that you go to every time you have your your solitude practice. That's a way of saying. I honor what i'm doing. It brings it really grounds it into the spirit part as well of saying that the choice that i'm making to care for myself which in turn cares for everyone else is sacred right. A lot of don't have the space to have a whole room. Dedicated to ourselves is early. Don't and so we can. So even if you decide to take a walk and you're not in your sacred space that becomes your sacred space and you can do that sometimes just with an intention just by saying i'm taking this time for myself. I'm going to really look at the trees and then a really listen to the wind. I'm gonna really listen to to the broke. That's burgling by. I'm going to smell the air and be present dot turns wherever you are into a sacred space. If you're taking a bath. Yeah light some candles. Why not put your favorite music on. That makes it sacred space. I love alters. Because they're like a standing You know a standing representation symbol of your dedication to your work and again. There's an energy that goes into that building of that space in that building of those meaningful connections right. That energy alone is so important yet and it doesn't take a lot of space. My son is ten. He's had an altar on top of his dresser drawer his dresser. Yeah so there's not a lot of space. There's like a thirteen inch by thirteen inch space. And he's got a matt and he's got a candle and like twigs leaves and stuff. He actually should probably clean that alter up. It's right now keep adding to. He's got his teeth. Fell out on there. And you know little legos. Whatever it is what. That's the whole point. Populating your altar with something that means something to you. Not what you think is supposed to look like right now. Unlike you said that is it makes it sacred. Because it's yours. It's important to have that we'll have to find. That's a space to simply be who and what we are. Where can our listeners. Reach out to you into your sacred space in connect with your book. I creating solitude hounded develop a sacred space to honor your highest self. And where else can they go and learn more about your programs and your guidance short so the book is celebrating solitude. As you mentioned he can get it on amazon. That's easy right or burns and noble dot com. They're still around but it was there for quite some time. But it's there on amazon celebrating solitude and you can reach me at my website. which is rachel star. Tate therapy dot com. And that's the site for my practice. And i also have a lot of resources. There that people might enjoy. I'm on instagram. At rachel start and then of course there is It's are a therapy. I think it is rachel. Star tastes therapy to name. Show up. i forgot the actual address. Because i'm i'm just not. But i am on instagram and my website is there. So it's rachel is started therapy dot com and guess celebrating. Solitude is is available on amazon will thank you for sharing the sacred time and space with us today. It was absolutely my pleasure. Thank you for having me jeffrey. Thank you this truly has been a fun interaction. And i feel that levin light so thank you rachel. Were so grateful for that. We will do this again night. Pleasure thank you you too. John fitzgerald kennedy. Once said we are not here to curse the darkness but to light a candle that can guide us through the darkness for the world. Is changing the old ear. As andy in the old ways will not do it to show we discover dead. An empty leonard provides light so cares the fuel that empowers your light to shine so if love is not simply a state of feeling good. it's that simple state of appreciation for oneself. When we take the time to celebrate solitude and create our own sacred space we empower our mind body and spirit to become integrated imbalanced harmony and flood reconnecting with our truest self breaking the patterns of program. Expectation can often feel a little uncertain in scary to us if we let it take control of our choice to define healthy boundaries in decisions for our own well-being we embrace authorship and ownership of those choices. We begin to move back into a more authentic alignment with our true self empowering us to discover our light inside in allowing our little chunk of the mosaic to shocking. Thank you for tuning into today's episode. It as always we're grateful to share energy like with you are valued listening community now. Rachel and i would like to know what you've found meaningful in today's show. Leave us a message. Www dot the light insight dot us or tangus social media at the light inside podcast schering. What inspired you the most in this episode. We are grateful to be able to continue helping. You are valued eliciting community. Discover your light inside. Remember to continue to support the growth of our program by sharing feedback or leaving us review on apple spotify. Google podcasts or anywhere. You find your favourite show sharing with others. You enjoy our program here at the light inside. Join us next week as we discover how the masterful and skillful art of delegation can guide you and building your vision by empowering others with real estate investors pollen kelsey tompkins tune in to find out more on the lie inside.

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