11 Episode results for "Anwar Ibrahim"
Goldman's Malaysian woes deepen, StanChart plans a share buyback and Bob Diamond explains his investment strategy
"Welcome to banking weekly from the financial times with me Patrick Jenkins. Joining me in the studio today is David Crowe, our banking editor and down the line from Malaysia we have Stefania Palmer scientist Asia correspondent pulsa from New York. We have Laura Newnan US banking editor this week. We'll be discussing the latest ructions at Goldman Sachs as its Malaysian scandal. Deepens look at Standard Chartered as embarks on a buyback of shares. And finally an interview with Bob diamond, the former head of Barclays who is now investing on his own account through business. Atlas merchant capital, I o to Goldman Sachs and Stefania joins us from Columba. You Burke, a really interesting story on Tuesday morning that the premier-in-waiting and Ebrahim has gone pretty aggressively after Goldman in this long running saga about the one MD. And the agree just payments that were allegedly paid to Goldman Sachs for issuing them. Tell us what happened exactly essentially Anwar Ibrahim who should that been after current prime minister Monti Mohammed about a couple of years, essentially told me set Goldman should absolutely return significantly more than the six hundred million dollars at the Bank was paid for arranging three bone cells of for one MD the Malaysian state investment fund that is obviously now at the heart of one of the biggest financial scandals in history. And the main reasons thoughts on we're gave me or ops first of all the fees which to about ten to eleven percents. He found up to the exorbitant and indefensible, and then you also argued that this entire one of Dubya fear of which took Goldman is a part of is essentially a cost to the image of Malaysia. It's a cost to investments coming into the country, but also burden shouldered by the current government, which ousted not cheap Razaaq, the founder of one MD back in mate, we have to remember that the current coalition is also tackling quite an easy fiscal position. They've had to revise the twenty teen fiscal deficits from two point eight percent to three point seven percent in the latest budget, and they also face up to ten and a half billion dollars. In Dutch repayments actually linked to one MD. Where's this going from here? Do you think? I mean, clearly it's getting noisy all the time. Those various other actions, pending feels if on the ground in Malaysia younger is sent me mainting towards Goldman rather than dissipating the hope. Absolutely. I think they are hoping to target Goldman at the moment because it's obviously a case that is in full public view. It also comes on the back of the league est. Accusations coming from the department of Justice dots, essentially have said ops almost half of the six and a half billion dollars worth of one him to be the were arranged by Goldman where misappropriated the deal Jay has also accused two former bunkers of engaging in bribes toward Malaysian officials in order for the Bank to secure business from one to be. So there's definitely a sense here in Poland poor the top government officials are really just taking advantage into riding the wave of very strong momentum against Goldman, or at least putting very strong spotlight on how the Bank has been involved in all of this affair will. Let's get a perspective now from the other side of the world, Laura. You just heard from Stephania that. The Malaysian authorities are certainly ramping up pressure on Goldman is the same thing happening in New York as well. I think certainly the Bank is coming depression me, they continue to negotiate. With the deal Jay to see while sanctions of finding the firm Glenn to face as a result of this whole scandal. I think it seems reasonably likely will save these some sanctions a lot the control diesel internal work. They will probably look need some kind of a fine. The content of the fine is very much known of this have suggested that the financial penalty to go cooking basing that Goldman house to make up the entire of the to them or so that he's on a candidate for that with taking the one NTV raising mills paint this hundred million fees, which Scott that will get you to figure end she win to two point three billion of the very big number. That's Toby Specter's enough this point we don't know what kind of fine reconcilation the firm will face if any they made their goals other implications the firm, we don't we have a field with us. What we haven't said he's in the last few weeks ago voice has become under pressure. Because of this investors are not worrying vice the fact the global is going to. Business certainly parts of these Asia. Investors are worried about the financial penalty office on that basically taking would in three billion from Gomez coffers getting to some combination of do JV fines than have having button to the Malaysian, by way of compensation will it's clearly going to be a story that runs for some time on by sides of the world, please keep us abreast of it. Thanks. Let's move onto a second topic. David you broken interesting story a few days ago about Standard Chartered looking at significant share buyback Sunday chose of course, the emerging markets focused Bank, which storage has been very focused on growth now looking at buying back. How much it's you you arresting we know the number, and there's a reason for that. Which is the Standard Chartered itself in negotiations with the DOJ about the size of fine. It must pay to settle historic abusive. Abusive sanctions. So they are very nervous about putting a number on it for fear that the J would just say, oh, you have that kind of money sitting around to you. We'll take that. Thank you, very much analysts think that it could be about a billion pounds. The Bank has significantly more capital than that. Even after accounting for the size of the fine. They will have to pay the DOJ, but this is a big strategic departure Standard Chartered. And so a buyback of billion pounds would would be pretty significant. Yeah. And I think some shell certainly will be applauding it. They love the idea of having the kind of windfall, but others who may be invested in thunder as a growth machine, which obviously has been for decades tapped into the will my think hang on. What does this signal? Does it really mean that stunned sheltered has no opportunities that it can find to grow in these fast growth? Markets. Right. And when I started hearing about this. I went back through all the history of Santa to try and find a last time the Bank had done a buyback. Now the backs preference shares in two thousand and two what we consider traditional buyback off to that. It's actually impossible to find the story we say at least twenty years, but that is simply because the institutional knowledge runs out Standard Chartered after twenty years, and nobody really knows when they've ever done one is sort of a sign of the fact that this Bank has always been a growth story capital has been better used to sort of pet against writing new business than handing it back to shoulders and some people think this could be in putting the white flag up. Now when you talk to people who have been working on this plan, they say, well, we don't giving everything back. This is a disciplined approach will get back some and we'll keep some to put towards my business. Well, we'll see if they strike that balance on a rewarded in the stock market accordingly. Thanks, david. Leslie, let's go now to an interview with Bob diamond. Of course is the former Barclays boss who now runs atlas merchant capital an investment fund which last week completed the purchase of a twenty percent stake. In equities has Kepler's Chevra will I caught up with diamond recently at an F T conference. And I started by asking him what the rationale was really behind these kinds of investments and where he saw value in the financial services sector. The only sector of the economy Europe any way, you look at it. We're not higher than they were in two thousand eight in most sectors. Multiple. It's been interesting. We city opportunities to invest in capital intensive businesses below the level of. Broker-dealers insurance companies and banks to be tremendous though, were quite active in. In that regard. I went onto diamond if this was all about regulatory arbitrage and taking business from the big systemically important banks that now just for them become punitively expensive in capital terms. Regular arbitraging pejorative way. I would say, no, never joy. But if you say, no better housed in other words, if it's legacy. Yeah. So there's no new business being visit wise to be holding that risk in a regulated insurance company or is better outside of this. It doesn't need to be regulated not doing. So the point is. Yes, absolutely. We see this really in Europe, we've invested in banking platforms in Greece in Italy, which some people go really, but if you can find platforms without legacy non-performing loans without legacy technology and without legacy talent. If you think of that where you can really have the best and the brightest talent, you can bring in new technology for straight through processing with clients and customers, and if you can go if you can be lending SME's corporates without trying to manage portfolio SME's. It's a tremendously profitable opportunity in Europe. But when we look at Europe, we're looking at most of the big banks. That are so saddled with legacy technology, and therefore costs also non-performing loans, the stomach banks in Greece's example, have sixty three percent non-performing loans of ten years. Well, that's it for this week left for me to do is to thank David here in the studio Estefania in Columba, Laura in New York and also thanks to diamond for talking to us. If you're not ready a subscriber to the FTA do take a look at our latest subscription offer at dot com slash offer. Remember, you can keep up to date with all of the latest banking stories at F T dot com slash banking. Banking weekly was produced by multi doublet until next week. Goodbye.
Malaysias Game of Thrones, andthree new cases of political interference in New Zealand
"They get I. It's Tom Switzer here. From between the law and sprite too heavy company now today on the show Asia it recently issued a warning on unprecedented threats to Australia from foreign interference. But we're not the only ones facing that fresh take a trip across the ditch to New Zealand where there are currently three investigations underway into foreign interference. Stay with this for that. Am I chat with Professor Anne? Marie Brady but first to Malaysia which has a new prime minister seventy two year old my eden. Yesen it's less than a week after the abrupt resignation of the world's most national later. This is the ninety four year old Muhammad Muhammad that plunged Malaysian politics into turmoil. So how has this South East Asia nation about thirty one to thirty two million people? How has it gone from an inclusive? And reformist government to a nationalist conservative law. Within days. Bridget Welch is an honorary research associate at the University of Nottingham. That's at Malaysia's Asia Research Institute bridget. Welcome back to between the lines. Great to be here now. Mahadi rule Malaysia for more than two decades until a two thousand and three in my twenty. It mighty gripe political comeback. Those last time we had you on the program bridge. What did he suddenly resign? Listen to us into his tenure. Well I it's reasonably clear that had he had very serious tensions between himself and anwer Abraham and the coalition that he led the pocket harp on coalition was divided and ultimately it split And as a consequence of that The the coalition collapsed and part of the collapsed however in the ball to move to a new coalition government and mightier himself was not willing to accept what other other parties in the coalition were doing montier resented working with. I'm no particularly the former leaders of the former government who were Who are tainted by corruption allegations? So what we see is a situation where Montier many politicking dividing rule many of the trying to split the pot the coalition itself his his reluctance to to leave Turn power over to Anwar set the conditions for the power. Grab that took place but at the same time Montier was not willing to go full. Go through with it. Because he wasn't willing to to allow the new new coalition to include the members of who he stood against when he came back into power. I'm into thousand. Mahalia and You mentioned ny Abraham now. Let's be clear. He's the protege turned. Raul turned ally although they fill out about a waco so ago they have reunited though having I think they have reunited from a perspective of They're now forming the opposition. But they have not yet completely resolved their differences. The fact of the matter is is that if Montier had supported Anwar clearly laid out a time line and stopped the politicking within the coalition then the government would not have collapsed. So I think for now. They are working together against a now common enemy. Who was someone who took the took took over the government in a in a power grab but at the same time that doesn't necessarily mean that they are fully resolved the question of the Lisa Session? If alcohol everyone was to come back to government says he feels but tried he success that. Yes in his malign nationalist. He's backed by this corruption tarnished former governing party. You mentioned the Mama tells more about yes so mine didn't yes and has been in politics for over forty years He joined politics in nineteen. Seventy eight He came into. I'm no He was the Chief Minister of the the very important state of Jehovah on the southern part of Malaysia and he has served in different capacities as different ministries that has held six different ministries In I'm no I'm he has not necessarily Had A clear Persona that That an extensive grassroots but he's been a very effective tactician and capable administrator And as a consequence he rose through the ranks through I'm no And he became deputy prime minister under the previous government From two thousand nine to two thousand fifteen We didn't ask known predominantly for three things He's I known for defining himself I as a Malay- as opposed to a Malaysian which is of course part of the reason. There's the brand that he is. Emily nationalist government and this new coalition that exists combines is predominantly Malays based parties And so this is something. It seems to have been Quite defining of who he is. The second thing is is that he's also known for standing up for against Najib on they won. Mvp scandal He he was sacked and after putting pressure On on Najeib to on these issues of corruption and he after in this happened in two thousand fifteen when the scandal is revealed so he stood up for On this important issue. And he's also known now for The effective maneuvering up becoming the winner in the power. Grab Which of course they're very different views and Malaysia about this Those looking at this recognized that that there are real serious. Ethical concerns about Whether or not amyloid and Yeltsin actually had the numbers which really did not seem to be the case in terms of A majority government When he was positioning himself for taking over power And others feel that that there's a there's an that he had. He had more than most numbers at that time and that he should that He was effective and moving and getting the position of power. There people in Malaysia are divided right now. Some people are are willing to give mood in a chance Wanting the situation to be more stable is and others very very angry that they feel that their sister the government has been stolen from them their dreams of different Malaysia of stolen for them. And there's a bit of considerable fear among people that this that lead in Yassin were lot real will be an old Malaysia. Politician Aka using the levers of power using issues of race using of issues of of of exclusion as a way to build up his powerbase so to the extent that this new Malaysian pm a struggles to govern and of course we have to remember elected public. Mandates does this mean this unprecedented instabilities. Luckily to continue the fact of the matter is is that Malaysia is a coalition government And is dealing with the situation of coalition governments in coalition governments across the world. You have one type of party set. A parties emerged. And then you can have a very unstable situation that a new set of parties emerged from Malaysia. This is a very new dynamic and of course it played out in the uniquely Malaysian Way with with intense amount of personal drama and Intrigue Enemies and betrayals Because the politics of Malaysia or highly personalized Right now mood in is Has Very is behold into the parties that he that he is that a put him into office and and the questions of Prot. Who is he's going to prosecute or maintain the prosecution's how much Islam governance he's GonNa put in whether he's actually GonNa try to seem to have any reform without his gonNA use race relations and of course importantly now lead in. Essen is is somebody who's just recently had a very serious bout of pancreatic cancer so the issue of the leadership succession is is equally important for this new government so there are very important points of instability and and as a result of that This is something that the people are watching very carefully. The instability is also facilitated by the fact that the opposition the new opposition bucket on Harapan. Now is that is actually quite emboldened by how this power crap has taken place. My guess is bridget Welsh and she's from the University of Nottingham in Malaysia. So bridget any chance of of of yet. Another political comeback for Dr Mahattaya well Malaysia. One one can recognize that. There's a phrase Malaysia. Bolay anything can happen. Malaysia is able to do many different things. And I think I think that the possibility of him taking Coming back into office there But I think it is already provides. Extraordinary isn't it. Yes and the possibility of Anwar Ibrahim coming in is there But there are also pressures to try to bring a new individuals contenders and this is one of the things that's happening now is that they're different generation of pressures To move in different sets of leaders right now. Malaysia still however is very much locked in the personalities of the past and mood in was one of those. What about talking about anything happening? What about this disgraced former prominence to Nagyrabe Razaaq? He's being dogged by A multi billion dollar corruption scandal. You mentioned it before the State Investment Fund one. Md BE. I mean could he be walking back in into government a bridge? I think there are different views. There are people who think that the that that lead in Yeltsin's except the unblock which means everybody right so that everybody's GonNa get off or they're gonNA get fined and they'll be able to come back into the government. I think it's highly unlikely at this. Juncture THAT NUDGE OBTAIN. Razzak will come back in. Because because of how he's tainted in because it keep in mind that he sacked mood and esn And he was very vindictive and how he did that and so you know. People have these personal relationships and personal experiences I think that There's also a lot of pressures within Om no to change the leadership And to move beyond Najib but nauseam continues to have considerable clout within the party because he controls the resource a lot of the resources and the money Which of course Many people were questioned. Where the sources of that money came from. But the fact is he does have a visa. This issues of resources at its disposal and as a result. I think that one of the things that's going forward is the I'm the I'm no party is divided about. How should they work within the context of this new coalition? Some of them would like to go on to new elections to get a fresh mandate bring in fresh leaders others who are part of the elites of that party want their cases settled and so they see this power grab as a as a means to bring them back into office and to and to kind of re. Give them a clean slate. Which of course can't happen because of the slate is extremely dirty. It's infected okay. Now about seventy percent of Malaysia's thirty one thirty two million people malign Muslims and it's widely believed that this new government will rely heavily on ethnic Malays support. Does that mean? It's luckily to marginalize the non-muslim minorities first of all it's let me step back to the question of Malay Muslims in the of Malaysia. What we're saying is divisions within that community and that has been playing out for quite some time it paid out in March and may two thousand eighteen and it's playing out now so I think that the sense that all the Malays are united is is something to be. I think cautious to to push forward. They're going to rely on on on mobilizing sentiment about racial and religious politics But not all Malays except that about but the majority. But they're gonNA try to use the sort of legitimation at the same time. Non-malays clearly are have been very significantly sidelined in this new government So far we're going to of course wait for the cabinet numbers but the reality is that the parties that represent non Malays in this new coalition lack legitimacy among the Non Malays community. But there are these issues that many of the business community and many in the community were frustrated with the lack of Performance of the previous government especially in the areas of the economy. So it it. There are some some divisions within the non-aligned Community. About whether or not this new government can stabilize and bring in Improve THE SITUATION FOR BUSINESS. There is a lot of pressures to deal with issues of business as usual at the same time. They're conflicted because they're serious. Row Concerns about the role that the Islamist party will play in this new government And of course on how this will impact the rights of non-muslim within the country There's a lot of fear. There's a lot of apprehension on this matter. Bridget thanks so much for giving us an update on Malaysia. Run between the lawns. Glad to have you on the program again. Great to be here. Thanks very much for inviting me bridget. Welch she's an honorary research associate at the University of Nottingham at Malaysia's Asia Research Institute. Bc's is between the lines with Tom. Switzer will here in Australia. We've had several high profile cases of Chinese influence in Australian politics and last month we had a warning from the Director General of Asia that quote the level of threat. We face from foreign espionage and interference activities is currently unprecedented. That's from the director. General of Asia but Australia is not the only country facing this threat. It's a growing problem across the region now joining me now. His Ameri brighty. She's a professor of politics and International Relations at the University of Canterbury and a leading expert on China's use of influence operations. Amr is also a global fellow at the Kissinger Institute on China and the United States and Global Philo of the polar institute now heretical. A couple of years ago on China's magic weapons that helped inform the major shift. We've seen here in this country. On perception of Chinese influence in federal politics emory has given evidence to the Australian parliament's intelligence and Security Committee and she's even being the target of intimidation in her native New Zealand Anne. Marie welcome to between the lines. Tom Nice to talk to you now. What China's magic weapons? Well waepons is a tune that Matsu don't Coin to the Domus they Previous later of the Chinese Communist Party and he talks about Three core magic reopened within. That can't be defeated. Which helped the Chinese Communist Party come to POW and Xi Jinping along with other leaders of the Chinese Communist Party before him has used multiple. Don't Tumelty to signal a big change in Chinese from policy so these are the three magic mickens. One is struggle in other words the military the other party discipline the strength of the Chinese Communist Party and the food is what cooled united from united from is lean enough concert. People who'd a frontal actions with a Chinese Communist Party took the ideas of Lenin about building united front with people who are not necessarily your allies against the common enemy or treat and they really made it. There are in multiple created day Sixtieth of using united front tactic for the victory of the Chinese Communist Party in the Chinese civil war. Against the Chinese nationalist government when 2015 cheating pink signal that China with now gonNa be using a united front Wakon in much greater level with much more resources than it had been so many many years and it talks about am I research not just using domestic politics and some foreign policy and for what we would call foreign interference That would for in China's united front weeks so you mentioned about foreign and actually the Net with within the name of my paper of two thousand seventeen but they they as yo and essays here Needs Zealand eyesight. I make a distinction between influence when normal governments diplomacy normally governor trying to influence The government and and put the cost point of view. This is different from interfere. So we're talking about political interference and political systems and trying to build coalitions of sort of divide and road strategy and multi level and China uses multiple agencies and individuals to do that. And as some of your leading commentators on issue have seed. His a corrupting corroding collusive impact on our political systems. And it really caused a Lotta damage that so-called magic on the China side. But what I say to my rich if we have mentioned within two and the Democratic Political System and democracy we have the the academic because the conscience with fool to state. We have the right to choose their governments. We have to balance and shake multiple agency. So we have magic way since it can't be defeated that we can utilize to make Friday resilient against this kind of foreign interference from China. Let's bring this to New Zealand because the now has three Janis Communist Party. Political interference related investigations there underway. Who and what is being investigated? Well Australia kind of jumped ahead of everybody else. On dealing with us to share in path from so many important legislation but New Zealand who has got underway a couple of Investigations with these without food offers which are related to foreign interference so the first is about a New Zealand National Policy. Which is the main opposition party at the moment and donations? That they received from pace include dengue. He couldn't who at sometime has denied giving these donations. But you did get the donation. Somebody guys a donations and And he's connected and other people connected to the three people associated with him who are being the scope other serious food off of four now to two hundred thousand dollar donation which were not declared not report and the normal reporting system we have donation ivory fifteen thousand dollar amount and also The whistle blower on that particular case. Jamie Ross is also part of the investigation and the second investigation of if I should meet you by. Johnny is one of the most senior front The New Zealand dictated by the Chinese government. They very very involved in the. I'd probably he founded. What the GIA. The Child Sean Association Chechen General Association deal in which is a united front what organization which is sitting local a local part of China but it in southern China but it takes people in the board. I we'll track Southeast Asia. Many of them who come from Chechen. And it's one of the probably the much caution of the regional united front organizations and in the second case is the near Auckland. Field Goal and donations that he received political donations. He received in two thousand sixteen his electoral campaign which is now being NABISCO. One of those donation with famously a signed copy of she's selected works which he auctioned and I think that one hundred fifty thousand New Zealand for not reported who pitches but and from the Piston Cooling. Pitch and swing. It was dumb in Beijing when we pitch by the auction by fund and then the food person is the Mirror Christ church a game and be skied off donation that she received that were unreported. Is there any evidence that these legal donations from the Chinese Communist Party operatives that have actually affected public decision making in New Zealand? Because I think in Australia as you well know. We had the case of libraries. Sam Desio who was forced to resign after he essentially parroted. The Chinese government stands on the South China Sea. Are we seeing any real impact in New Zealand? Well fit fuel measure of having a these donations leaving leading outcome with. We have golden example. Told Maclay was the minister of trade. One hundred fifty thousand dollars put into the Royal Bank Account. Electric BANK ACCOUNTS THEY RIPS IN. Just the raw sugar by somebody. Who's not New Zealand? Raise it into citizen but he used a vehicle of a New Zealand company which that New Zealand rich company behind it As a significant shareholding from the Inner Mongolian government and that's one of the Inner Mongolia one of the provinces of China and todd. Mcclay went off about the waiter concentration camp. He used the terminology of the pain about that. But I think that we cut just look to the wording that our political it seemed to be using as it's some kind of a that's an example Bingo. You know those people that money so they start saying these things. I think it gets us. Those three things you've got from okay. They the broader and paint on our political system of poetry shouldn't receiving money from the Chinese government. The various intermediaries and then the corrosive impact has on out democracy out credibility and trust to democracy both in domestic politics and internationally and the corruption as well of individual. Potentially you know you have a lot to examples in New Zealand and Australia. And many other countries about very senior politicians and also civil servants who immediately leaving office or even sometimes while in office Tie Cup. Drake two ships of Chinese banks and five hundred prizes and they use their connections that heaven to our political systems to lobby for China's. I'm more beyond somebody repeating talking points. What about the media? I mean how concerned are you about what's happening in Chinese language media in New Zealand. Well not particularly violent. The fifty pay the Chinese Communist Party government although they do a decked their foreign interference. I'm PO approaches to countries depending on the makeup of the broad approach that China follows is much to fame so I recently tweeted about funding as well on those looking at the Chinese medias political guidance that they Chinese Pharisees provide to our local Chinese media. In fact it's not just editorial guidance. There is there radio stations in Australia and New Zealand and elsewhere in the world or they look like a local station they're actually owned by China Radio International which is from the Chinese government state broadcasting and most people levels of interference of guiding and instructing out local indigenous Chinese language media to follow Sheen potline. They have to follow the same line as that. She was the official news of China and the Chinese media has to follow that too. That you head to make sure that you're on message with what the Chinese government website so it means it out Chinese language media with very few exceptions. You've got a great Piper in Australia. Could Vision Time. That's unusual independent and the epoch times since the fall on goal publication different to buy power from them incredibly. Now you'll find that the Chinese language media if you picked up a Paker and Sydney Oakland Vancouver and Chinese language. You wouldn't find any different the assure line from what you'd find in a paper in Shanghai Oklahoma Beijing bet you might even find more of cutting edge journalism within China because they've got a competitive marketplace dear Paper so go to sell papers. How do you think the government and has it been strong enough on foreign influence? Well in Australia. You had Malcolm Turnbull. taking political leadership on this issue and we need that kind of political leadership and New Zealand from ALP reminisce. The she's the she's in charge of over overall has Responsibility for national security. So she needs to go. I really strong leadership on on the Fisher She has spoken at times about concerns about foreign interference. But really not with the same clarity as now temples by modern saying what happened with Malcolm Turnbull and Julie. Bishop came down hard on the Chinese leadership over these issues. Many commentators in Australia believed that was the beginning of the The turning point the relationship between Cameroon Beijing Salad of the tumbles intervention. I might be thinking. She doesn't want to sell the relationship because New Zealand. Lock Australia so heavily dependent on China Amurri. Actually that's a mischaracterization of the strategy. China chaining point wasn't in tune boom spy cowed. Jimmy bishops anything. Strictly re China relations have not been that great for quite a while. Now new permits us to tell me how You Know New Zealand would seem to play loud business. People and politicians to meet with senior leaders in the straight couldn't get the similar level of Highly contract sorry. Australia has been getting a bit of a cold shoulder from Australia. From China for Awhile and But Australia has got something that China really need has got iron ore and other rickles that China really need. It can't get elsewhere when you give them that kind of pressure. From great power you have to recognize. National Security is the top priority. And if you don't have national security don't have economic security a New Zealand. China relations are at the historical based. We know this because Aluminium leader of opposition bridges. He was in China last year and hey mate with a Washington who's a senior leader in the polit bureau. Who happened to be in charge of one of his portfolios? Bakr police on the bridges didn't realize it but I've seen the notes of that meeting and Washington Toll Bridges that New Zealand. China relations are at the historical base point Eva and then after that was last year we were having the one year acquiring foreign interference. Lubitsch died the second one We've we have. Our government has done a number of thanks trying to address the challenge of the far interior victims coming from China and yet we were told That relations really good so China kind of fool to go and Go again every country in the world. They're gonNA really hard on. You know the guy hit hip with us. They are picking on Canada because Canada exit on Interpol notion that Rosa going hard on Sweden. Who's defending citizens who've been arbitrary defined China so? I say that you could not pick a better time to defend your interest and your to give between predict national security. Your point is Australia and New Zealand have leveraged with the Chinese and Marie. Thanks so much for being on our in today. My Ameri Brady. She's an expert in Chinese Politics Kimber University in New Zealand. And we'll put a link to Harare on China's magic weapons on the website. Well that's the program this weekend before you tune in again next week. What are you? Download the listen half. We'll just visit our website. Abc Net dot US slash. Aren and follow the prompts. To between the lines we listen to any of the past episodes over the past six. She's on Tom Switzer. Hope you can tune next week
The Truth About Islam and Democracy
"We to present Islam in the sense that he to be tolerant and liberal, plural. And accept even some of the values of the west. I'm Maddie Hudson. Welcome to deconstructed, it's a never ending debate. Why do so many Muslims living unmet critic countries? How do you get more freedom in the Middle East? Does Islam have a problem with democracy, their age-old and often quite cliche questions? So on today's show. I want to do a bit of debunking and deconstructing with the help of a very special and very relevant guest. You have Cora oppressive tunica states, and they used the liberal Islam. That's my guest today, the renowned Malaysian leader and former political prisoner on what you're Brahim who's on calls to become the country's next democratically elected prime minister, I'm also joined by Dalia Mugabe had the American Muslim writer scholar and former White House advisor when you look at the facts, they simply don't support the idea that there is a clash of civilizations or a cautious values. So on today's show. What's the deal with Islam, Muslims and democracy? Islam and democracy. Is there a clash is there a contradiction been hearing this question posed by right and left the like my entire life since before nine eleven especially since after nine eleven when we were told by George W Bush by Tony Blair by the Neo comes and others that the real problem in the Muslim majority world is the lack of democracy and freedom and political pluralism, and guess what's to blame for that Islam, or at least political Islam, whatever that is? Now, I have a lot of problems with this rather lazy and simplistic narrative, which completely and conveniently overlooks the role played by western governments in propping up Muslim dictators like the president of Egypt or the king of Saudi Arabia. But here's my biggest problem with that narrative. It's factually inaccurate right now in two thousand nineteen hundreds of millions of Muslims possibly the majority of the world's one point seven billion. Muslims live in. Democracies of some shape or form live in countries where they have the right to vote the right to choose and to change their own governments from Indonesia to Malaysia to Pakistan to Lebanon, Tunisia Turkey. Not to mention the tens of millions of Muslims who live in western countries in Germany from the UK, Canada, the United States, the mayor of London last time, I checked was a Muslim. And in fact, the country, which is on course to have the biggest Muslim population in the world in the next couple of decades is India, which also happens to be the world's biggest democracy. So why is it that in the west in particular, people still associate Islam with dictatorship and totalitarianism and the lack of freedom. Why is it so many folks still think Muslims have some sort of inherent objection tool problem with the idea of democracy that we're not interested in or grown-up enough or liberal enough for democracy? What's the actual reality? It's a big question. But it's the question I'm asking on deconstructed today. And we're lucky enough to have to fasten. Meeting and very clever. Guests who I hope are going to enlighten us. All. More than twenty years ago on what you're Brahim was on the cover of time magazine, which called him the star of a rising generation of Asian leaders. But then deputy prime minister of Malaysia and devout Muslim leader spent the next two decades in and out of prison on trumped up charges. Malaysian reformist leader unloader Ibrahim has been released from prison. The release comes after his opposition alliance won the elections earlier this month. Now, there's a new dawn. Addition am I think the issue regardless of race religion, who's put by the principles of democracy and free? The today this long-standing advocate for democracy dialogue and human rights who's become a bit of a rockstar in the Muslim-majority world is a step away from becoming prime minister of. Yes. Democratic Malaysia having come out of prison and helped pull off the unlikeliest of election victories last year an way Brahim joins me now to talk you slum and democracy. He. Unwary Brian thanks for joining me on deconstructed. Thank you to many in the west on many here in the US. There is a clash a contradiction even between Islam and democracy, but you come from a Muslim majority country more than thirty million people that he's a democracy, a flawed democracy, but which democracy isn't. So what do you make of this constant claim both from right wing Islam affords? But also from well-meaning liberals who genuinely seem to think that Islam and democracy, Muslims and democracy. Don't go together. I think to Edward sign is a clash of ignorance, there's very little understanding what's happening with the ground in the largest Muslim country in the world. It is as democratic as in the states Turkey, of course, the Levin move some criticisms, but the leader was elections, which has seen a perceived by the west even as independent and now, Melissa as you know in the last years elections and now proceeding to us. Vibrant, democracy, India. Although Simpson the minority by the support the democratic process, you have Christian Democrats in Europe. Why can't we have Democrats in the Muslim world issue is the fundamentals the democratic process? Cannot be compromise judicial independence free media equal rights for citizens. And that is being observed it's more than just having elections. A lot of countries have elections which turned out to be no, so Democrats acidy elections in and democratic society will always be flawed. So what's your explanation, then for the preponderance of dictatorships across the Muslim majority? Well, especially across the Middle East in the Arab world were they also internal dynamics within some scientists that must be address, but you can ask similar questions the Washington elite, the London elite who actually has been a large extent complicit in this arrangement. They support the dictators and authoritarian regimes, but I would not use that as a complete argument because that Muslim societies observed. Neither fall in need further commitment to us this and it is happening in Muslim wurley, Indonesia, Malaysia, it is not happening. Unfortunately, in the in the Arab world, the problem is the Arab nations and not a Muslim problem, and it, unfortunately, as you yourself of noted Arab nations are often conflicted with all of these Slavic world, even Arabs or minority of the world's Muslims as you mentioned, Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim-majority country. You said in two thousand fourteen that quote, all eminent Muslim Democrats must condemn not just groups like ISIS and Booker haram. But the dictatorships and autocratic regimes in the Muslim world that have persistently denied democratic rights to their citizens and whose human rights records could even put North Korea to shame. And when I read that quote, a more I'm kind of torn because on the one hand it's so refreshing to hear our Muslim leader willing to criticize Muslim-majority countries. When a lot of Muslims, as you know in our communities, turn a blind eye to our own problems. And we're very happy to criticize Israel or America or the west. We don't want to say things about Muslim countries. I'm glad that you're willing to say though, on the other hand, there is this view that it feeds into a dangerous narrative that says Muslims are all collectively responsible for bad things that happen in Muslim societies that we have to constantly play this condemnation game. And some would say, you know, what do I have to do with Saudi Arabia? Why should I condemn nothing to do? With me. I'm not Saudi. I'm not to blame for Saudi Arabia. I'm not responsible says that that is a problem. I note this atrocities and imprisonment for two decades. I don't expect much either from the west or the Muslim were. But the fact the reality is capital Watson capitals, including United States will more at least committed though oftentimes ambivalent, but there have been seen to be more supportive. So they this correctly, theoretically, at least which is not happening in the Muslim world. So I think that my my position is we must be. The more coherent and consistent if you condemn atrocities in. Zomba's and some other countries and let it America Velika. You must be prepared to do the same. You've noted that in the west. We often equate the Arab countries as I said with a slum you talk about Indonesia, Malaysia, Muslim democracies, which are culturally politically distinct, yet Malaysia does have an official religion, the constitution states that Islam is the religion of the federation. But other religions may be practiced in peace and harmony in any part of the federation. Is it your view that you don't need to be secular in order to be democratic you can be an Islamic or Muslim democracy? What the constitution stipple is Islam? The religion of the federation is not an Islamic state. Stipple is in judicial independence free media, which need not necessarily be tied to the religious precepts. That must be clear. Secondly, I think the issue of Sakwa Ord slamming. It depends on how you conceptualize evidence lie city in extreme sense of empty or the. The French secular secular model, but I think to my mind what is essential is every citizen must be given equal, right. So muslims. Don't have preference over non most of the extra goes, we have a that number of Christians Hindus Buddhists in this country. You mentioned the very phoney contentious idea of Islamic state, which of course, ISIS have given a whole new meaning to you. But generally, there are people in the Muslim majority world who've peacefully nonviolently want to work towards a quote, unquote, Islamic state. What do you understand to mean by Islamic say, it does it does such an idea can such a state even exist? I would say that Muslims would need to suggest that they need independent state that allows for freedom of expression and worship. And you want to call dyslexic on secular. It does not matter. I would go for the content now if. The petition with estate as promoted by Boko haram. Certainly I totally Jack and thinks nonsensical Riva cannot be runnin Saudi Arabia, Pakistan. They will call themselves Islamic Republic stores Slavic kingdoms in some shade. As in anything, I mean in Pakistan breakfast, some pretty un-islamic and holdings because cross contradiction. You have oppressive sate you have under noted undemocratic corrupt oppressive torrential states, and they use the liberal Islam. It's a problem as someone who's being tried and convicted twice for sodomy. These trumped up charges at you're accused of a sentence in Malaysia that can lead up to twenty years in prison. It can lead to whipping on the Malaysian law. You told the Wall Street Journal back in two thousand twelve many years ago that Malaysia sodomy laws a quote archaic that they should be amended. Use it could it's not my business to attack people arrest people based on their sexual orientation. Now, you're a free, man. And now that you'll party is in power, you're on the verge of someone say soon be. Coming prime minister. And we can talk about that. Do you still stand by that will Malaysia be repealing sodomy laws anytime soon? Yes, it is kayak into where the British in ninety forty seven to India, we replicate Israel's colonial hanging their colonial and has nothing to do with Islam or Kostanic. So I believe well, I've said is a guy it has to be revised emended, you cannot condemn people for the sexual orientation, although s country, not only Muslims because induce rejected notion of people displaying open sexual X in public, and we just consisted many countries in the west your sexual orientation is your business. No. But just to push back a little bit there in the west. Of course, there's something such as their they're gay pride marches, for example, even in Turkey, you mentioned until very recently they were gay pride marches and Tugay country. Is that something you could see how many Malaysia or are you saying we won't punish you? But you gotta keep it behind closed doors. No public affirmation. Of being gay yet? Because I think the done more Sanders is a concern only Muslim Caceres Hindus Buddhists. We are credit conservative in their light liberal in terms of political orientation, but I think rather conservative in wanting this display of public display of sexual X in public heterosexual homosexual. Yes. So so it is not a prejudice against any sexual orientation by team will take time. Evolve. If you've been I mean, even your stance of coming out against punishment is controversial and Malaysia. There's there's quote unquote Islamic parties that want to keep those. Yes. And I and your that's for for years because they keep condemning me, look, this guy supportive of all these ex against religion. I do not agree. But I stand my ground, and I think I've sought it arguments to Support Hope contention. Would you describe yourself, and this is loaded language? I now as a liberal Muslim or a conservative Muslim, what do you think of those labels? A Muslim must be liberal in the sense that they tolerate and try and understand the other so conservative in the sense that you do accept the fundamentals religion. You pray. I mean, it depends who you connotation, but I think the important point here is do you tolerate differences? Yes. Do you allow people to criticise or condemn somebody Billy's? Yes. We need a reassertion of pluralism. We clearly is a multiracial country. It is plural. I mean, an Islamic self promote that or accepts that as reality in Israel or in but not not not with Muslims the bitch contradictions because the floor of the Neo conservatism. Not only in the west in Islam, the Neocons. Amir. Yes, that's a good. It's a good line. And you sit in the pasta, quote, unquote sharia law, which is real bogeyman of a phrase here in the west has been misunderstood. It's been conflicted in the eyes of both many Muslims and non Muslims with quote who'd punishments. The stonings the beatings the lashings the amputation really brutal and violent stuff that we see on our screens on the news almost nightly. You've said you're more interested in the gossip the law the higher aims of the sharia explained to our listeners. We're not familiar with. Because what do you mean when you talk about sharia or on the higher aims of district? Relevance of religion Islam or Christianity. Today's is Justice and compassion you've ignored this and then talk about punishment, certainly the entire produce wrong. So to my mind religion requires understanding compassion. So an end legal process should be a detained. And even then there must be a clear legislation in the petition most of the positions are by the new. Phones of this lemming world. How do you push back against them? We will have to continue to be vigilant to be active. Those of us who believe in Justice must be more assertive and the courage all the condemned by many of the new coins, and you took over the Neons the Muslims. Some of the Neo comes in the western world of very keen to pathology is a slum to treat. Islam is kind of oddity in the modern world and Muslims who don't sign up for liberal secular values overnight or yesterday are somehow backward. Primitive barbaric need to get on the Medina t train. How how do you push back against that like thinking, I because it is a pedal situation because they knew combs of the west should be friendly that in your cones or the Muslim world the blinkered in the villes, non tolerant and and completely unjust to the other. We represent Islam in a sense that. It has to be tolerant liberal, plural. And accept even some of the values of the west Samuel Huntington of the clash of civilizations. Fame wants declared that Islam has bloody borders and here in the west a lot of people again, both conservatives and liberals will look at the violence and insurgency and terrorism plaguing countries like Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, even Indonesia, and they will say, yeah, that's undeniable Islam has bloody Buddha's what t- say to them in response elective amnesia when you talk about all sorts, the major atrocities in the work ideologues. The wars in Europe, the murders IMB death in China and nothing to do with religion. I will not condone accessors where the name of Islam or religion or secularism. But I think to street history in such a blinkered view is certainly not acceptable. That is why I started by suggesting this notion used by over the freeze. By sign as clash of ignorant. Ignorance over clash of civilizations. When you plan to replace Mahat terrorist, prime minister, that's the plan. Right. You're going to be prime minister manasian does the plan. What agreement was? What agreement that he will surrender? Our he has come up repeatedly will not be more than two years. So in less than a year to go. I think we should be patient. And I use my time this transition to prepare to listen to interact with Melissa and also my friends overseas, and you have been very patient. You were in prison now, then you are in the opposition. Now, you'll parties in power and you're waiting to take over. Let me ask you this final question. I really something. That's quite interesting about you. You've said on the record that you forgive air for putting you in prison, you forgive the G Brazil, the the former prime minister who you defeated last year for helping putting you in prison. How does someone like yourself who spends? I think more than ten years behind bars away from your family and pretty Ariffin conditions. How do you find it within yourself to forgive these men who've treated you in this way, I think? Discuss the Mandola. We joked about we being a bit either mad or crazy. But since we have been certified as not being mad. We are certainly crazy and doing what we have to do as the sufferings Indian by is on my wife and the family and friends, but. On hindsight. What do we do? I mean, do is our personal interests more important than the welfare of our citizens. We talk about religion, humanity, compassion forgiveness. Why is it come to our turn we can act or implement these ideals? So I think finally is not choice is an imperative that we have to act upon and we were him. Thanks for joining me on deconstructed. Thanks. That was unwise Brahim who's amazingly now on cost to become Malaysia's next prime minister, what did Cherney he's been on? I'm joined now by Dalia Mugabe from the institute for social policy and understanding ISP. She's a former executive director of the Gallup center of a Muslim studies. She served on President Obama's White House office of faith based and neighborhood partnerships the first woman in a head scarf to ever do. So and is the co author with professor John s busy two of the acclaimed book who speaks for Islam. What a billion Muslims really think? Dalia? Thanks for joining me on deconstructed. It's my pleasure. Thank you. Dahlia just listening to that interview with unwell Brahim. What do you make of his answer that this endless debate over Islam and democracy is the product not of a clash of civilizations. But in the words of the late great Edward Sade. A clash of ignorance, I really have to agree with Anwar on that. When you look at the facts, they simply don't support the idea that there is a clash of civilizations are a cautious values. I worked on the largest most comprehensive study of global Muslim opinion when I was with Gallup at as the executive director of Muslim studies, we interviewed tens of thousands of people from all over the world and ask them questions about their views of their own society of the west their own aspirated, politically and personally, and when you do that when you allow Muslims to speak for themselves. You get a very different. Picture than than what the pundits would have think. So broS right surprise. It's always interesting to me that vocal extremists from the Muslim side, say exactly what Islam folks say they seem to have perfect agreement, but is very different from what the vast majority of Muslims think when Gallup asked citizens of Muslim-majority countries from around the world, what they admired most about the west one of the most frequent responses so that open into question was democracy. But Dali George W Bush told they hate our freedom. Right. They don't hate our freedom. They want our freedom. They want the same thing for themselves. Here's a question for you. You hear people at some Harris and Bill Maher and others talking about oh Muslims in the Middle East in particular. But across the world, they want sharia law, they want Islamic state. They don't want what we want. There's a difference between us and them what you say in response to that. Well, I think there's a lot to say in response to that. First of all, I'm wondering. What they mean by we because a lot of people in our country definitely want their religious values reflected in our law, and I'm not talking about Muslims. So in our research at the institute for social policy and understanding as well as in Gallup's research, we've found that lots and lots of Americans say that they want the bible to be reflected in in law. And that's you don't need a poll to tell you that just look at our politics. So the idea that religious people want to see their values reflected in their lives, not exclusive to Muslims. Now. Also interesting to see what Muslims around the world mean when they say sharia, so one of the questions we asked in the polling. We we did when I was with Gallup was a series of questions about what they associate with shariah compliance. So when they say sharia, what do they mean shariah compliance to them meant things like the rule of law that government had? To abide by the same law as the people women associated shariah compliance with gender Justice. Now, that's how they're interpreting shariah, and it's interesting, I know on where was explaining the differences between the way sharia is is interpreted by Muslim Neo cons as well as the Slama folks and the way he thinks about Torri allies as a set of principles, and that's wide spread view could into you referred. It's a very widespread view. According to the research. We did. Yeah. W not just a Muslim American urine education American when you listen to Anwar Ibrahim saying the problem for democracy in the Muslim majority world is really a problem for the Arab world. That's where the democratic deficit is right now, not in Indonesia or Malaysia Turkey it in Egypt. Saudi Arabia and the Gulf countries Jordan is a fair point. Do you think I think it's absolutely a fair point? And unfortunately as always been. The case, I don't I think the the Arab spring, and and as well as a lot of research has proven that it's not because the people are not interested in democracy, don't aspire for democracy, but that there's lots of other complex geopolitical factors that keep democracy away. So I agree with him actually, the majority of Muslims live under a democratic system or another. It's just the airborne world where. That has not been the case. So here's a question about Muslim Americans who are also under the spotlight. These days for good reasons on bad, where do they fit into this in terms of attitudes towards democracy political engagement, especially religious or practicing Muslim Americans? If I can call them that what are their attitudes like Muslim Americans if I can generalize. According to research are a community that believes deeply in our democracy. One question. I remember from a Gallup poll found that Muslims were the most likely faith community to have confidence in our electoral system. An unduly right now, you have Ilhan OMO congresswoman, I one of the first to assume American women to be elected to congress. She's in the news being attacked, the president of the United States is say she should resign from congress to me. It's so frustrating, the Muslim Americans are told to integrate to be more democratic to run for office. And then when they do their vilified, the demonize the hell to standards the. Other politicians are not help. Now. That's absolutely true. And I I have been so disappointed in the way that our to congresswoman have been treated they didn't go to congress to fit in. Right. They knew it was going to be tough. And that speaking about certain topics was going to be met with with some response. But even I was surprised by how difficult it's been for them. And how much of this discussion on Islam and democracy and integration is driven by his Lama phobia with a witting or unwitting, I think that some of the underlying assumptions that animate this discussion are Slama phobic and it is oftentimes unwittingly. But I really I really challenge even the framing of words, like a simulation or integration. It implies the mental model behind it is a host and an outside group coming in and trying to integrate or assimilate and one way. Offic. A one way traffic exactly, and it is always the other being hosted by the real Americans. And it's on the other to accommodate and assimilate. And so I think that we simply have to reframe and rethink that entire model. America is supposed to be a place where we're all equally American. There is no second class citizenship. And that's the model we have to hold our country to Dolly it will have to leave it there. Thank you so much for joining me on deconstructed. Thank you, Matt. That was Dolly Mugabe had from the institute for social policy and understanding and co author of the book who speaks for slalom what a billion Muslims, really think. And before her, of course, was unwise Ibrahim a lot of food for thought. I think you'd agree from both of them and a reminder that on phony and contentious issues like this one we only to dig deep and get past simplistic binary. He's lazy media coverage, and perhaps unconscious, Islam phobia. That's how show deconstructed is a production of first look media and the intercept and is distributed by panoply, our producer. Zach young Dina say at Hamad's production assistant, the show was mixed by Brian Pugh. Lee. Tom Malar is our executive producer. Our theme music was composed by bought warshaw. Betsy Reid is the intercepts editor in chief. And I'm Maddie Hasson. You can follow me on Twitter at Manny are Hudson. If you haven't already please do subscribe to the show, so you can hear every week go to intercept dot com forward slash deconstructed to subscribe from your podcast platform of choice, iphone, Android, whatever. If you're subscribed. Already. Please do leave as a rating or review it helps people find the show. And if you want to give us feedback Email us at podcast at the intercept dot com. Thanks so much. See you next week.
Wednesday 23 September
"You're listening to the globalist first broadcast on the twenty third of September, two, thousand and twenty on miracle twenty, four, the globalist in association with UBS. Hello, this is the globalist coming to you live from the Dory. House in London I'm gene on the shower head never in our history has our collective destiny and our collective help dependency completely. On our individual behaviour. As far as Johnson sets out new restrictions to help combat Karuna virus in the UK we also give trying to emulate Churchill is enough has Westminster lost control of the messaging. Then, the row over appointing a new supreme. Court judge after the death of Ruth Beta Ginsburg intensifies we'll talk to a couple of people who knew the notorious Abu BG and ask if may be able to get away with nominating her successor. Plus Washington is counseling New York. The Department of Justice has designated the city, an amicus jurisdiction. What does that even mean and what are the implications? Then we really try to be very evidence-based based so we tried to. The incoming evidence as it was changing and building, and in Germany were saying, felt like nailing accustomed to the war, we'll hear about Germany's ethics council ruling on Corona Virus, and we'll look at the future of the travel industry as Lufthansa cuts yet more jobs with a roundup of luxury retail news and of flick through the papers. That's all ahead here on the globalist live from. London I look at what else is happening in the News Donald. Trump. Has told the UN General. Assembly that China should be held accountable for unleashing covid nineteen on the world. Malaysia's opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim said today he secured a strong majority from lawmakers in order to form a new government and is seeking an audience with the king to formalize his appointment as prime minister on the president's of target and France have held their first conversation in month amidst tension between the NATO allies over the eastern Mediterranean. Stay tuned to Monaco Twenty four throughout the day for more on those stories we start here in Britain where the Prime Minister Boris Johnson has set out a raft of new corona virus restrictions which could continue. Into next spring or even summer but many have criticized Westminster for sending out muddled messages at a time when communication and unity around the issue is desperately important. Terry's destiny. The political journalist and author joins me on the line now, Terry Good morning to you and thanks for coming on. Now, it's quite unusual for the prime minister to address the nation directly. But this is the third time Johnson's done it, and at least one newspapers dubbed him a pound shop Churchill. What was the tone of the speech? Was He trying to be Churchillian? I think he was trying to repeat. This was a scripted thing. He was trying to rein in his natural sort of flamboyant tendencies if you like if you watched it, you could almost see or since he had his fists in front of him and he kept moving his hands and and almost trying to stop himself again. So I, think he was trying to stick. To a script, but it was it sounded like the speech of somebody who was trying to persuade those who were still very skeptical that things like more mosque wearing when necessary at one point he said he was deeply spiritually reluctant to bring in more restrictions. Now, you might question how much how deep Boris Johnson's general spiritualism goes, but he certainly is somebody who doesn't normally like. To Stop People doing things that they want to do. So it was very much he was saying I know you probably don't want to have to do this. You don't want to have to have more restrictions but I'm afraid you're going to have to and I think one of the things that surprise me given how much build up there had been. Over the last couple of days to the announcement, the done I in the House of Commons. And then on television last night is how little he actually did having sent out the government's chief medical officer, the chief scientist to tell us how serious this wasn't a show us all sorts of ominous graphs, forecasting huge rises in number of cases and numbers of hospitalizations, and then to have Cobra meeting. Then to speak to all the other nations have a cabinet have a House of Commons statement. He didn't actually announce very much even the some of the papers of described this as both barrels and A. Strict, me things these are really measures at margin. What are they in fact? What are the new restrictions? So the news stations having been told at the beginning of September that we should all go back to the office where we could The suggestion is now that people should work from home where they can, which has after all been the advice over the last several months and many people were still quite reluctant to go back into offices He is bringing in a ten. PM. Curfew in pubs and restaurants. So you will have to leave a pub or bar or a restaurant often by ten o'clock at the latest. and. That's going to be apparently quite more strictly enforced. The fines will increase for not wearing a mask, not obeying rules when you're told to and they again to bring in also more mask-wearing more widely say for instance, if you are in public restaurant the rule until now you haven't had to wear a mask at all but now you will have to wear one when you're not actually sitting down table. Eating or drinking and other things will be postponed for instance, like the reopening of sports grounds, and there's been a big outcry about that because many people hoping to get sports, grounds and other big venues back to opening but that is now not going to happen for for the foreseeable future. So. Consistent across the country I mean, is there clarity? Facts. Nationwide. Having spoken to all the First Minister of Northern Islander of Wales of Scotland The trouble is that then Scott Nicholas Sturgeon went in announced presumably on very similar scientific and medical medical advice a much stricter change in the rules. So if you are in Scotland from now, you will not be allowed to mix with any other household outside your own from today and of course, even in. Parts of England, there are already strict to rule. So there are already local lockdowns in other parts of England they're all local. Local lockdowns in parts of South Wales where you're not even allowed to to set foot outside of urinary or set foot in a certain area if you live there and there are. Tight restrictions in in parts of northern. Ireland. So this is not even the same thing across England let alone across the different nations of the United Kingdom. So Johnson's also promised tracking and tracing of millions. He's used Olis' really grandiose language about how fantastic is going to be but clearly it's failed we're nowhere near what's been promised. Is there any indication that soon we will be and why should we trust the? That is really the difficult question for the government as trying to convince people that actually they should trust. This will be effective because some people sitting in the opposition have pointed out that for instance, parts of North West England have had local lockdown restrictions that similar for quite a few weeks now, and they still haven't seen much sign of case numbers going down and of course, in the last week. The big issue here really was the testing issue. The fact that people once they were back in schools or offices or people going back to universities, they weren't actually able to access a corona virus test to tell them whether they're Simpson's work corona virus something else, and that is still one of the big things that is concerning people and that you know is not yet addressed by this apart from telling people that you shouldn't get a test unless you absolutely have classic symptoms and you shouldn't try to be getting them for other reasons, which is kind of dealing with. The demand rather than the supply. So well, they bros, Johnson has warned that this is a perilous time and there could be six months of further restrictions. It is very little hope in this yet that this is going to work quickly. So that is going to be people are still going to start wondering whether we're testing this and tracing it properly. And you know how how effective the system for managing it is given all this confusion I mean do you think that Westminster has lost control of the message? I think the thing is, is they they keep changing the message So over certainly in my own experience that of many others over the last month or so we've been told variously to quarantine for a couple of weeks. If we've come back from other parts of Europe, those rules have been constantly changed very short notice for people who might have wanted to travel. Then we've been told to go eat out to help out, go out to restaurants to try and keep the economy going then told to go back to school to. Go into offices and the people's jobs were risk. If they didn't do that now within a couple of weeks, people have been told that wealth this is this is all very dangerous and you've got to be extra careful in poss- possibly shouldn't be doing it. So it is hard to for people to know you know whether they should be trying to carry on as normal or whether they are still in the perilous time and alter retreat again, I'm what's the next move if this continues to get worse which by all indications that will Well I think there has obviously been a debate going on within within Westminster also on the one hand, what do you protect more? Do you protect the Health Service? Then there was mentioned by Boris Johnson yesterday of new phrase, which is sheltering the economy. It's we sheltering the economy by taking initiative by not taking part in it is not entirely clear but people obviously worried that things like sports, venues, things like restaurants. Other businesses bigger offices will do really badly because of this. So there's still the risk to the economy, but then there's obviously the argument that you know there's still a massive health risk and the one of the things that is obviously being held out as a possibility is that we may have Scotland tight restrictions e you cannot go meet with people from outside your own household if this doesn't work within the next few weeks or the possibility of an even stronger what people being calling a circuit breaker lockdown instead of a time-limited lockdown where things go back to being extremely strict as they were back in March or April just quickly before we go can we expect to lure shortage? Think anecdotally, people are starting to to stock up again. I think possibly if people have looked at the detail of what was announced yesterday, it seems unlikely. There's GonNa be a complete lockdown imminently but I think we've seen that it's one of the things that people start to do is at least book. Slots of their food deliveries. If if if there I'm sure think it's the uncertainty as the gap between. What we know is definitely going to happen, and if you don't know for day or say what announcement, the prime minister is going to make people tend to fear the worst. I, think now now Terry, we're going to return to this because you're going to be back to have a look through the front pages, and of course, the story is dominating the the news media. So that's Terry St Augustine either this is the globalist. Be. Entrepreneurs monocle twenty fours thirty minute weekly conversation with inspiring business leaders from around the world uncovering the secrets of resiliency and growing accompany, and the many definitions of success. How many times have you had a great idea for Brian, the economy that would work and then you sit down with a monthly that would really actually and then you ask yourself that very simple question. Do I want to spend every day owning brand new innovative picnic blanket print? I don't WanNa do that I've had to learn how to adjust my management style and frankly learn to be a CEO I. Think in your Standard Entrepreneurial Journey. There's a lot of times when you might want to throw in the. Towel. But if impact is really at the heart of what you do, you don't have that option. You have to stick to your guns, join me Daniel Beach for a new episode of the entrepreneurs. Every Wednesday at twenty hundred London time. Right here on monocle twenty four. Liberal icon Justice Ruth. Beta GINSBURG set on the US Supreme Court from nineteen ninety-three until her death last week due to complications from pancreatic cancer. One of her last major interviews was with Rosa Igbo who went to New York for the BBC World Service Programme Newshour to speak to our. RPG. When she won the annual mcgurn prize for philosophy and culture for work in pioneering gender equality and strengthening the rule of law Orazio joins me on the line now to recall that meeting Rosiere. Thanks so much for coming on. How did this come about? Will you know sort very longtime in the run-up to actually think it was going to happen because? She had been so ill and you know I. Suppose we should remind listeners that she'd had full bouts of cancer different parts of her body and different kinds of cancer. So we kept thinking right up until December two, thousand nineteen that it wasn't going to happen but I did discover something about her in the run-up to that interview that once she's committed herself to something she is so determined to follow through her people just kept saying to us it will happen it will happen she wants to go and receive the one billion dollars, which, of course, she gave away two young women in particular women involved in arts projects and some legal. Bodies as well and I think we just were so nervous. It wasn't going to happen that. When did it was just the most extraordinary moment? This is a woman who is five foot one. She comes onto the stage at the New York Public Library a black tie dinner. Standing Ovation as she's walking onto the stage and within seconds she has the audience in the palm of her hands. Really. Manifestation of what everybody talks about this charisma just had it in spades. What struck you most about her during the conversation. You know one of the things that I think is really interesting given that she is an you described her as a kind of liberal icon. She wanted equality not because she sought that women should get to do what men did because she believed that they would do the job better i. think she wanted equality for its own liberating sake. So that was have I kind of driving philosophy and then on top of that, just this painstaking determination to look at the detail of litigation. You know she was a woman who worked so incredibly hard and you you saw that in everything that I read in the run-up to that encounter. She thought about Harare's very carefully I asked her questions and when I was interviewing of her of course, we were in the run-up to the impeachment hearings and sentences were saying that they had already made up their minds and I also that question and and an I told her that obviously she was head that president trump would saying that this was all illegitimate etcetera, etc. She just looked at me tilted ahead and said president trump is not a lawyer who serve laughter. Laughter. In. The audience. and. She's careful amazing sense of humor but really deliberate and that's how she was as a jurist. That's how she was. She worked hard the detail was important to her. She wasn't interested in being show even in her dissenting opinions of which there were many. She never wanted to be a show off about and I, think that's what was so extraordinary abou that her her -cation and let's not forget that she was one of nine women in a class of five hundred halted on being told by a senior. Member at Harvard the know she had taken a man's place. She was so determined that it was her intellect that people would engage with. So the idea that she became this kind of cultural icon in her later years from age of about eighty onwards I think tickled and I interviewed her granddaughter on Monday. The only interview that her granddaughter has given since her grandmother died, she's also a lawyer. Clarence Sparrow in and she said it it. It made her love. She was so touched by it. They would go out for lunch and people would want sell fees and so on and she just enjoyed it all and I think that was part of her her spirit that really came across when I met her an unbelievable personal career highlight for me obviously but I was so moved by her Insistence that the way she spoke the way she framed answers was all connected to her life's work, which was a work of not just the intellect but of respecting the institutions of the United States in particular the constitution this was something that she had made her life's work which I suppose why we are now in this moment in American history, which feels so potent and so important that the president is attempting to appoint three you know his third Supreme Court justice and within the space of. What forty days or so we are before an election and I think her saying to her daughter she dictated this note it is my fervent wish that the next president should choose my successor and president trump is already casting doubt on whether she actually said that That he feels that it was a conspiracy by the democratic policy accusing Reuss Beta, Ginsberg's granddaughter of of lying essentially that's what he's suggesting roset. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's Rosa Igbo from the BBC World Service our when another person who knew her personally and also followed her career from a news perspective is Jamie Floyd former lawyer and now senior editor for race and justice at New York public radio based in New York City Jamie. What are your personal recollections of RPG? Wow. Well, you know I'm so glad you asked because people always go right for the analytical and the legal. But you know I met. Justice. GINSBURG. Then judge Ginsburg back in Nineteen ninety-three Georgina before she was confirmed, it was when she was a headed up to the hill what what we call the Hill Capitol Hill for her confirmation hearing and I happen to be working in the Clinton White House and you know I did judicial vetting but I did not do Supreme Court vetting I wasn't quite so fortunate to do that but I did manage to. Wrangle my way into an interview or a meeting if you will with her because I knew this was an extraordinary woman even bet so I got a chance meeting with her back in early nineteen ninety-three and then over the years Georgina. I had occasion to meet her at least once once a decade maybe more I had luncheons with Moore and you know we were by no means friends. But I I'm so honored to have had the occasion to talk with this woman to know this woman and be in the company of this extraordinary scholar and jurist. Now, we know of course that her death has caused even more of a divisive political row in the US the Republicans. Want to push through that choice for the Supreme Court to replace her despite the looming presidential elections. I mean, do you think that trump will be able to bulldoze through his agenda? Even though there is a precedent set last time this happened when Republicans didn't appoint a new Supreme Court judge in an election year. Well, you make precisely the right point. It's rather hypocritical now for Republicans including the chair of our judiciary committee Lindsey Graham Senator Lindsey Graham who said last time around hold my words against me if I should try to do such a thing in future and now here we are in such a thing is happening but just putting aside what Democrats are calling hypocrisy. There's the time line Georgina I just don't think that in fewer than fifty days president trump can make a nomination. He's now saying he will make his nomination by this weekend but I, just don't think that even if he can that quickly name someone and I think he can make the nomination he has the shortlist of names. But even if he makes that nomination I don't think they can get it done in such short order the process of walking about as the candidate is. Supposed to do and meeting all of the senators and then the interview process on the hill with the senators, which is rather rigorous and takes at least a week unusually usually to and then the voting and the Mac nations, the politics of it all it's just not going to get done. Even if they try to as you say bulldoze at through our process doesn't allow for it to be quite that speedy. Even with Mitch McConnell at the how do we know who's on the shortlist? We do we do and it's a rather long short list. But since we're short on time, I'm going to give you my to that I think are at the top of it I think it's going to be a woman. because. This is Ruth Bader Ginsburg who has passed and president trump is savvy enough to know that he needs women to vote for APP. The woman who was at the top of the list the last time around when we had the show I, remind you a Brett Cavanaugh devotional the woman who is at the top of the list then was amy coney. Barrett A. She is now just forty eight years old and her age is a huge advantage but she has just five years experience on the court she's very Conservative and a darling of the conservative movement. But there is another woman on the short list and I would say she has shot to the top of the list. Her name is Barbara. Go Up and she is a season Florida dressed. So she has a lot more experience and here's why I think she's the top pick. She is a trailblazer for women and for Latinos in other. Words the first Hispanic woman to serve on the Florida Supreme Court and she would help president trump with the Hispanic and Latino vote and to be the first Latino Justice. That president trump would be appointing and the second only to serve after justice soda or an should this happen? What does it mean particularly for women I mean are we looking at a situation where ROE versus Wade? Could be reversed. Is this the end of abortion in America Well, that's a key question. The abortion debate has been ongoing for forty years ever since Roe versus Wade came down it's my Georgina that the court will not even a conservative court just overturned in one fell swoop in one case rather what they've been doing since we last talked Georgina Ish chipping away at it one case. That requires you to drive one hundred miles to see your doctor. Another case that requires you if you're a young woman to get your parents permission. So little by little they chip away at your right to choose rather than simply overturning that rather significant president but certainly, it is important to the next justice is each justice is hugely significant not just in terms of abortion rights, but in terms of our voting rights here in the United States, are right to free and equal education for children in public schools are free speech rights which we Americans hold. So dear, the First Amendment. So every justice in each of them is usually significant not just in terms of abortion. But in terms of the bill of rights and all of our freedoms, Jimmy Floyd senior editor for race and Justice New York public radio there, and before that you heard from Rosa Igbo presented on Nusa of the BBC World Service now still to come on the program, what is an amicus jurisdiction and why is New York one? Well, we'll hear about Germany's ethics council to and their ruling on Corona virus. We very early on said even while we were in full on lockdown that the measures against the pandemic were very much warranted and important but that we had to already consider how long and what kind of measures would be proportionate. This is the globalist stay tuned. UPS has over nine hundred investment analysts from over one hundred different countries. Nine hundred of the sharpest moins and freshest thinkers in the world of finance today. Find out how we can help you contact us at UBS DOT COM? Around New York City today and apart from lower foot traffic and the majority of people wearing masks. It's fairly normal. There are no mobs of looters and according to The New York Times crime remains very low by historical standards. However, this is not strong. Stopped the trump administration trying to cancel an entire city on Monday, the Department of Justice designated New York along with Portland and Seattle amicus jurisdictions places that are permitted violence and the destruction of property to persist, and although we are all now used to empty rhetoric of Donald Trump. This could have a real impact as it comes with the threat of suspension of federal funding. Well, Geoffrey Howard is a US political expert and a regular contributor here on monocle twenty four he joins me on the line now to look at this issue in more detail a good only t Jeffrey what is an unaccustomed jurisdiction? Well, that's a really good question, and since we heard the phrase the other day on Monday when the DOJ released this this designation of New York, Portland and Seattle anarchist jurisdictions no one had really heard the phrase. and. It certainly strikes the ear as something of a of an oxymoron the very idea of a jurisdiction of place bounded by law We talk about jurisdictions in order to designate who the relevant legal authority in a particular place we ask about whether a particular an action is or isn't illegal in that jurisdiction versus this jurisdiction the whole idea of jurisdiction is. The, idea of a piece of territory bounded by some kind of legal authority and the idea of an anarchist, your jurisdiction, a place that isn't bounded by legal authority is a very puzzling idea and I think that speaks to the very politicized nature of this. I mean what was the initial reaction in New York? It's hard to imagine this creature with anything but hilarity. Well hilarity, but also trepidation. So grants from the federal government in Washington account for a significant proportion of a lot of American cities budgets. In New, York, this was more than seven billion dollars in revenue in Twenty scat slated to happen in twenty twenty, one, roughly seven point, five percent of the city's projected total revenue. so that's not couch change that's a lot of money that's hanging in the. Balance here, and if the trump administration is able to successfully refuse to grant this money to these cities, that in many cases has been appropriated by Congress that's going to be a huge blow to the city's budget. So I think there was a staunch -ment and hilarity, but also a sense of real trepidation about whether they'll actually follow through on this and I think certainly intend to. Can the city fight back what if the man and the governor said? So the mayor's in all the cities have argued that this is illegal mayor. Bill. Blasi of New York City as suggested that it's even unconstitutional that it's outside the bounds of the president's authority to make these kinds of discretionary decisions money allocated by the US Congress isn't just the president's piggy-bank where he can decide it will where the money goes and where it doesn't go in some areas of governments at works like that But they're gonNA, make the argument that it doesn't work like that here and I expect this to go to the courts to be litigated possibly for many years to come who knows. Maybe it will even someday reach a supreme court that is itself populated by. What will be three trump appointed justices and trump gets his new nomination through t thing that trump and William bar of the DOJ a trying to punish cities that let people express opinions that they don't like. Well, this goes to the definition that trump in the DOJ or using of an anarchist jurisdiction. So trump referred to cities that permit Anneke and violence and destruction of the somewhat more specific criteria that the Department of Justice abused involves ordering police to refrain from intervening to stop violent violence in the streets defunding police withdrawing law enforcement law enforcement protection of refusing federal law enforcement intervention of and so there's all kinds of laundry list of different things. That the city can do to suddenly qualify as an anarchist jurisdiction. We know New York City has looked into cutting some of its police budget We know that there were cases in which protests in Portland and Seattle turned violent and for tactical reasons, the police departments in those cities declined to send troops in thinking that it could just fan the flames further and make matters worse the protesters after after all were protesting police violence. and. So they have a of the you hear about why these cities are acting wrongly why therefore they should be punished, but it's so interesting that there has also been substantial unrest in cities in Wisconsin in cities in Minnesota but trump hasn't said that he's going to withdraw funding in those cities will why not all right because these Sarah cities in states where he actually hopes to win reelection and so that just goes to show that trump sees. These classically liberal cities in blue states as really his enemies as people that he's opposed to, and that reinforces something. We've seen for long time from this president, which is that he devised the country into red states and blue states people who were formed and people who are against him, and he only really thinks of himself as the president of the former and the more he can crackdown and humiliate and punish the latter the better he thinks will play with his base Jeffrey. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's Geoffrey Howard. Here's what else we're keeping an eye on today. Donald Trump has used his address at the UN General Assembly to say that China should be held accountable for having unleashed covid nineteen on the world in his own prerecorded speech. Chinese. President Xi Jinping called for further cooperation over the pandemic saying he has no intention of fighting a Cold War with any country Malaysia is opposition leader Anwar. Ibrahim said today he'd secured a strong majority from lawmakers in order to form a new government and a seeking audience with the king to formalize his appointment as prime minister the opposition leaders claimed comes less than seven months of the current premier we. Clinched, the premiership following political turmoil the collapse of the previous administration under Mahatma Muhammad and French, president, Emmanuel, Macron, and his Turkish counterpart. russet tired other one of held their first conversation in months relations between the NATO allies and between. Ankara and EU member states Cyprus Greece a badly strained over the exploration for hydrocarbons in the Eastern. Mediterranean this is the globe list stage. Well offer look the thorny ethical questions behind one country's efforts to combat the coronavirus pandemic in Germany this week, the Ethics Council a twenty four member panel of experts issued a ruling on whether some people should be giving certificates if they're found to be immune to covid nineteen, allowing them to move and travel more freely than those who are not Professor Elena, Books Cherif, the woman ethics, Council spoke to Monaco's news editor Chris Chuck about the Council's role in German society and why they believe it's too soon to tell whether certifying a person's immunity is really the best way forward we are illegally grounded body. We have this law on the Ethics Council we are nominated jointly by government and by parliament. We are independent which are on topics, but we can also work on questions we get from government, for example, and we are multidisciplinary. And we try to represent as wide a section of society as possible, and we have three roles we advise on ethical issues. We should policy advice and we informed public debates and tried to foster public debate on ethical issues, and finally we try to engage with our counterparts in other countries. And perhaps, you could describe what sort of. You would say that you have you say it is enshrined in law but what kind of role do you have in terms of whether your advice is taken up by governments Decisions taken into account. It really depends it's different each time because many of our opinions on not in response to a request and yet still they get taken into account. And for others we do have a specific request and they have not always been taken into account but on the whole, our opinions are reasonably successful in forming policy and quite often they are followed. That's been Alex. Over the last decade. Well and speaking of that the pandemic is perhaps an interesting example of that because I understand you issued a sort of shorter opinion towards the beginning of the pandemic perhaps you could start by describing that little bit. Yes. Thank you. I was just going to talk about that one because it was important. That wasn't the last period of the last council. We get renewed every four years and fifty percent of the members switchover. That was a very intense phase of writing to what's very end of our tenure and we issued a short at Hawk recommendation. By focal making clear that the decision between protecting the health caste system and trying to get the pandemic under control on the one hand. And the many many implications of that social financial, economic, psychological, and so on had to be balanced and that that was a realty difficult ethical conflict. So we very early on said even while we will follow on lockdown that the measures against the pandemic were very much warranted and important but that we had to already consider how long and what kind of measures would be proportionate and that this kind of consideration would be something that we had to do throughout the entire pandemic, keep things proportionate and make sure that we balance. The needs and interests of all other sectors of society. Your panel has just released a fifty five page. You know look at a very specific element of the pandemic, namely, the use of sort of risk free certificates for people that might be immune to the corona virus. Could you talk us through a little bit the dilemmas that you faced in making a decision on this and why you picked this topic in particular? Well, we did not pick the topic ourselves. That was a direct request by the Secretary of Health. who was considering such certificates being included as part of. Our infectious, disease law. And that led to a little bit of a public attention and he asked the Ethics Council for an opinion and for ethical guidance on this matter. And That was a challenging task because as you say, it's it is circumscribed. It's about a very particular measure. for which information still isn't complete and we really try to be very evidence based. So we try to consider the incoming evidence as it was changing and building and Germany were saying felt like nailing accustomed to the wall, right because he was constantly changing and we're still learning so much. So we pretty quickly came to the opinion to say look at is absolutely impossible at this time to do this, it would be a responsible. In any case. And so we today issued a very clear statement a unanimous statement that festival we advise against implementing such certificates. At this time second that we need a lot more coordinated research on the topics, surrounding immunity certificates so immunity, but also whether people are infectious or not, and how we could measure that safely. We then also say that this means that currently we need to focus on other measures, of course, against the pandemic and we emphasize the common good we say. Lots more information for the public and trying to reach the public and talking about that not following guidance. Current guidance means not just in your own health, but also the health of others. So we really emphasized the common good, and finally we said something that's quite concrete and also relevant today already because there are antibody tests out there that are being sold. Sort of. Homemade immunity passport certificates, and many of those a bogus and is a very at some tests might be good. But most of them are many of them have doubtful quality and that is dangerous because those kinds of certificates could lead people to think that they really are immune and if they aren't, they could be super spreaders. Of course, they could go into groups are very vulnerable people because they feel safe. So we say these kinds of tests need to be regulated a lot better than they are currently, and that's Professor Elena Books Chair of the German Ethics Council speaking to Monaco's news editor Chris Tschetter mark. This is the globalist. On? Well Let's continue now with today's newspapers and joining me once again is Teri St Estany, political journalist and author Terry you on at the top of the program talking about the new coronavirus restrictions, and of course, in the UK and of course, that makes the front pages everywhere and one of the one of the topics of course is whether the government payment for furloughs will continue. Yes well as as you'd expect those who said the Boris Johnson and his new announcements of are the main topic of most of the front pages. Of The Guardian picks up one of the big questions which remains of this furlough scheme. So where effectively the government was paying for workers not to go to work, but still to hold onto their jobs is due to come to an end in October. Businesses are having to make decisions by the end of this month as to whether they're going to announce redundancies and certainly in places like the hospitality industry. With already seen large numbers of redundancies being announced. So for instance. Premiere in which is owned by Whitbread, has announced it's going to cut six thousand jobs. So the chancellor is considering what he can do having previously said that he wasn't going to extend this furlough scheme. and The Guardian has been told that he's thinking of replacing it with a German style schemes to Watson German they call quits a bite. And in in France. They've been calling the show March. Pass. It people are effectively paid to go part time. So in under such scheme, the government would pay. People for the time where they're off, work your your boss would pay you for the days that you are at work but if say you randy working. Three days out of five then the government would effectively be paying for the other two. Now, this is something that the opposition and the trades unions have been pushing for. So the trade unions in the UK have suggested that there will be a scheme light this. paps workers could also do some kind of cool. So education training or something while they're away from work. So they're not just. Sitting at home on the days when when the government is paying not Not to do the normal jobs, but all of these things have a Costa. So that's the question that the government obviously has to weigh up. Now Belt has been cited as a model for the UK what's happening there. Yes this is interesting. We keep hearing of people in government talk about looking at Belgium and looking at some of the restrictions. So some things like early closing times for pubs have been taken from a Belgian model but interestingly, Belgium is now in a position where they say they can revise this and they're saying that one of the things that being very strict in Belgian reading. Say is that they had very strict quarantine rules. So it's actually been illegal in Belgium to go to zone in a different country they've called they call a red zone, and if you come back from a red zone elsewhere in the world, then you have to have a both a test and a very strict quarantine and Suarez reporting that many people despite this weren't respecting the quarantine when they returned from reds or Orrin Red Orange zones if they were notified that they've been in contact with somebody who had a coronavirus and so now they're saying they're gonNA shorten this quarantine. To make for seven days and after seven days, you'll be able to have a test. If your test is negative, you can go back to your normal life. If you'll test is positive you would have to stay home for another week up to the Fourteenth Day Eve if you don't have any symptoms and then also talking about what they call the famous bubble of five seven in Belgium, they have a group of five win and now having a rule of six in the UK, and they're saying that they could have a sort of a flag system work a traffic light. Telling you how many people you're allowed to meet in different areas of Belgium according to the health situation than which I will say sounds sounds quite complicated and depends on you knowing which parts of the country you're in at the time. But this another interesting article pointing out the the European Commission, is suggesting. Nizing of these different zones across Europe the moment to Franz they have their own red zones and describe other countries differently and talking about having. A harmonized sort of map for the whole of year, which would be updated every week, and they could then be advised as to where it was safe to go or not. Let's finish by looking at the times and Brexit. Yes and that's interesting. This this article is headline in The Times as looking at the UK's an internal market bill and saying, there would be no vote until days before possible no deal Brexit and this is talking about the progress of this very controversial internal market bill three parliament an saying that this may not now be discussed in the House of Lords until after the next year OPEAN summit, which is due at the moment to be in mid-october, and this is the deadline that everybody is set by which time they need to have agreed a deal or not I think this is partly just parliamentary timetabling possibly more than. The politics is but they are trying to. Try to have the talks, I but interestingly, further down the article, there is more about how this is seen in the rest of Europe and less about. British political timetabling because they say. Michelle Baez to have further talks with David Frost in London. And he was due to brief the briefly you leaders this. Friday. On the BREXIT negotiations as we've just been talking about Belgian quarantine, the most imminent Brussels summit was postponed because shells Michelle. The European Council president has been pushing quarantine because his own security officer has tested positive for Covid. One, thousand, nine, hundred, he's had to. Obey the Belgian quarantine rules and they can't get a meeting with everybody else. But also interestingly the French and German Europe ministers equated a saying you know. We can't put an agreement in place on the future relationship says, Clinton the French minister if the withdrawal agreements being put into question and Europe has some leverage, but they hope it's just an episode and Mikhail wrote the German Europe minister saying please difference in London Stop the Games he said time is running out. Absolutely Terry. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's toasty estimate and this is globalist. UPS is a global financial services firm with over one hundred, fifty years of heritage. Built on the unique dedication of all people, we bring fresh thinking and perspective to our walk. We know that it takes a marriage of intelligence and heart to create lasting value for clients. It's about having the right ideas of course, but also about having one of the most accomplished systems and an unrivalled network of global experts. That's why at UBS we pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference. Tune into the bulletin with UBS every week for the latest insights and opinions from ubs all around the world. On Time to talk fashion a with Dennis. Thomas now who's the paris-based author of fashionable palace the price of fast fashion and the future of clothes. Good morning to you. Dana let's start with brooks brothers a Neiman Marcus both emerging Brecht bronc bankruptcy. Yes they are with books buyers is doing well, it's been purchased by authentic brands group and the spark group, and are they are reorganizing things in a leaner meaner way they vacated the longtime offices on Madison Avenue, and they're moving it in the fashion district to next to in the same building where. One of the owners is It's not quite sure what's happening yet with the beautiful Italian Renaissance Building that houses the butte the. Flagship store but you know that's coming they're negotiating that that's been owned. Still owned by the previous Claudio Delvecchio, and so that's in negotiations. They're reviewing who to hire as a designer and they've and they've narrowed it down to a few names. One of them is Michael. Bastian, very well liked in that menswear industry, it's coming together nicely. Neiman Marcus less. So I mean Neiman Marcus has decided to change up everything that they do It was a gigantic deal as well and they they're they're doing things like they've decided to turn turn their whole focus toward a different market completely They're going to tighten up their retail footprint and they're gonNA, perfect digital clientele ing for most valuable customers, but they really want to reach millennial. Audience. Gen. Z. Audiences. and that's a completely a new a pit for Neiman Marcus, which was always about old money. Luxury Let's have a quick look at London's Fashion Week. What's the new normal in this age of Corona? Well. The new normal age of corona is that there is no new normal in the age of corona that nobody's doing their own thing. It's all hodgepodge and in here and there some did outdoors and social distance shows like a young designer name Bora. Aksu in London and and while they're very beautiful and Bora was inspired by the nurses of World War One, which is kind of interesting during the pandemic and the war. With starched weights and Fluffy Party dresses and Pastel colors sort of nineteen twenties, flappers, dresses. And he had. They had that in a covent garden churchyard. which was really lovely. There was only you know twenty people attending, which is a long way from the the shows that have a thousand people in Paris at the Palais like Chanel. So. You know it's summer having show summer digital. Some are saying that this is to give hope some are feeling like it feels it seems a bit frivolous that you know why is fashion insisting on doing this when everything is so such a mess but you know air aerodrome the wonderful designer Adam says he feels like it's an act of defiance or resistance to keep making beautiful things in such an ugly time. So God, bless them trying. And finally, very quick look at what's happening at Ralph Lauren. Well, we're all floor in you know. None of the fashion press will ever say Rao Florida's in trouble but then these stores come stories come out saying things that sound like Lauren is in trouble and today was one of them. The company is reorganizing and it's business and part of that reorganization is to cut thirty, six hundred employees, which is a big chunk of workers all to, S- you know save about two hundred, million dollars. In in in revenue and business expenses. So this is six point two, billion, dollar company two, hundred, Bill two, hundred million seems like a small small change but thirty six, hundred workers in a company that's healthy. You don't do that. So obviously, this Ralph Lauren is in big trouble than folks are saying, they wanted to focus more on direct consumer they say, this is a you know they're going to. Reevaluate and read reevaluate is how they put it their real estate footprint and cost distribution, corporate offices, wholesale doors, all these different things it sounds like they're in trouble and they do not want to fall in the way of Neiman Marcus to be watched absolutely Dana. Thank you very much. Indeed. That's Dana Thomas there, and you'll with the globalist on monocle twenty four. When Stephane deeds entertains, he invites his friends his studio in Munich for a rare look behind the scenes at the place where his sought after chairs, dishes and left take shape. He tells us about the power of design to bring people together and let their to get people dancing. You may want to have comfortable light could play listened some good drinks. This episode of our New Art of hosting series produced in collaboration with LG signature is playing in the film section of Monaco Dot Com. This is the globalist on monocle twenty, four I'm Georgina Godwin and sadly mu grim news from the airline. Industry Lufthansa has announced it will cut more jobs and take more planes out of services. The travel industry continues to suffer under the weight of the Global Pandemic Monica's transport correspondent is Gabriel. Lee, and he has the details get real what Lufthansa figures and the and the reasons behind them. Well. Yeah. So this is the latest in the sort of a series of a restructuring cuts modifications to to meet the challenge of drastically reduced demand, and basically we're talking about now is further cuts more airplanes parked more staff will go and they're expecting people to to fly with them basically whereas they had a more optimistic take earlier on they were thinking maybe maybe they might average out around fifty percent of last year's totals passengers. Now, they're saying it might be more like twenty to thirty. So as a result you know they're they're just parking that many more of their larger planes and looking to basically cut costs wherever they can. But look tons is already to government bailouts of nine billion euro that was just in June two that not help. I'm sure it helped to keep them going right and it sounds like a lot of money. But then if you consider the fact that they say that at the moment they're losing around five hundred million euros a month just operating you know normal normal operations and these cuts really are designed to to shore that up just by little bit. So there's had able to lose a million euros less per month. Now that they do take these moves. So so they're looking at, you know losing quite a bit of money for the foreseeable future So I, guess they see the need to sort of shore up the business every way they can to make sure that they don't completely run out of money. Yeah. I these getting into deep storage. How many of them are there? Do you ever see them coming back into full-service? Question it really depends how things go. You know if if things head more in that pessimistic. More than that pessimistic road that we're looking at we're demand doesn't come back where the virus continues to to pop its head up here and all over the world for months to come and and you know it could be even worse than expected than especially some of the bigger planes, some of these three eighty which we're seeing many airlines or just deciding okay. We're done with the three eighty. That's the Super Jumbo Double Decker that now you know very airlines in the world see themselves ever feeling again Lufthansa are saying that they're sending the remainder I think they had. Eight more to long term storage and they may come back. I would not be surprised if we never see these coming back basically eight thousand, eight hundred are being flown by Emirates. At this point and that's it and that maybe it for the for the future, there's others which you know If demand does pick other things start to look better you can see them bringing them back. These long term storage solutions are designed so that you can put a plane away for a few years and it's still you know pretty much ready to go when you want back. So It will depend a lot on how things progress and finally I mean would effective and swift virus at airports helped the situation I mean I many in the industry think that it and I tend to agree I think that there hasn't been nearly enough movement towards. Standardizing towards ramping up towards using some of these latest. Rapid results tests in a coordinated way so that so that governments can feel much safer about allowing people to travel so that we can take down some of these quarantine requirements and and border stations that are obviously you know my sense is that there's there's quite a bit of a desire to travel at this point that that people are sort of you know ready to get back to to business moving around but but because of all these restrictions and because they're changing all the time, it's just so difficult to make any plans so they so they opt not to I think a good testing program tons certainly thinks this. I tend to agree that it could really change things you had by from from governments You know you had you had various parties taking part and agreeing on a standardized way to do this all you optimistic about the future of the industry. So far I see the industry trying to act and I I don't see. Government's backing them up and it's it's surprising to me that we're at this point. So so many months in and we're still looking at the situation. So the way that I've seen governments responding especially doesn't leave me very optimistic. You know I think eventually aviation will come back it will be it will be fine Some Airlines may fail in the interim You know there's no way around it I hope to see more action. I. I. Think. The the possibilities are there we can make it happen but but it's so far. It's a disappointing result. Gabriel. Thank you very much. Indeed. That was Gabriel Lee. and. That's all for today's program. Thanks to producers, Daniel H and Kaleta Rabelo a researcher Charlie film according to our studio manager mainly Evans with editing assistance from David Stevens off to the headlines There's more on the way and the briefing is live at midday in London nuts with Emma Nelson in the presenter's chair, and of course, you'll be picking up on all of those top stories and giving you a lot of analysis on what's going on around the world I'm Georgina Golden and I'll return on the globalist at the same time tomorrow. Thank you for listening.
Thursday 27 February
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the twenty seventh of February. Two Thousand Twenty on monocle twenty four. The briefing is brought to you in partnership with Rolex. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you. Live from studio one here Midori House in London. I'm Andrew Miller coming up. We have a saying in Russian. There are no irreplaceable people. Well I can tell you with certainty that saying. He's not true. Boris Nemtsov was irreplaceable. Five years on from his assassination. We'll consider what Russia lost along with. Boris Nemtsov also in today's show governments and corporations around the world take action to Combat Corona virus. But will any of it actually help L. News panel we'll look at the? Uk's Brexit negotiating stance sectarian violence in India and US President Donald Trump's lawsuit against the New York Times and remembering Michael Hurt's and the New York City subway. He met all that coming up. Right here on the briefing on monocle. Twenty four and welcome to today's edition of briefing with me. Andrew Miller around the world national governments are taking steps of various degrees of the drastic in response to the current outbreak of the corona virus. Cove it nineteen more than eighty thousand in at least forty countries have been infected. Nearly three thousand deaths have now been confirmed. Many countries are imposing travel restrictions and or counseling or curtailing public events Elliott today. Saudi Arabia announced a ban on foreign pilgrims entering the country. It is very much the kind of crisis amid which governments and businesses alike. Were always going to employees. The something must be done. This is something so let's do at template but does any of it actually do any good. Well I'm joined now by Dr Chris Smith Virologist at Cambridge University and present of the naked scientists. Podcast Chris. There's a big question a lot of smaller questions. We'll ask the big question. I is any of this actually helping in combating corona virus. Hello Andrew I think it is helping and the reason I think it's helping is because it's buying us time. None of us under the false assumption that we're going to be able to stop this thing this genie's Wayland trudy out of the bottle in other words it's out of China and spreading internationally. That much is office. We'll know that but what we're trying to do is to slow down the rate at which it does that and why that matters is that health services can see patients and handle cases at a certain rate and their pro. They've got provision to do that. And if we overwhelm the system then the then there are knock-on effects whereby people who will get some other kind of problem. Let's say they're having a heart attack or something because the system has been overwhelmed with people with corona virus. You then don't look off to your haunts victims so they die then dying of Corona virus. But it's a contributory factor so if we can slow down the rate at which we get these intense spikes in other words. It's a more spread out spread through the country's then it doesn't overwhelm the health services in the same way and in that way we've got more control and so that's the aspiration and the rationale behind the car and strategies whether we're gonNA prove to be whether they can prove effective or not. Time's going to tell. Do we yet have any idea? What an appropriate threshold of infections is before government start undertaking measures. Perhaps even more drastic than the ones we've seen whether there's more extensive bans on flights on travel of all kinds. How serious does it need to get before? That seems like an appropriate response. The thing is that every situation is different every viruses different come at different times of the year they come from different sources they have different effects on populations so therefore there is no single set of instructions. If if this happens do this. There has to be a degree of dynamic response in the sense that one is prepared to adjust one's stance on one's approach based on the data and the flow of information that is occurring so at the moment. We're in what we call containment approach. Well that means is that. If we see case in the country we will do our best to try to contain it. We're going to do that by reminding people to don't go out and stay at home self quarantine we find all the contacts of the people who have picked it up we test them or Corinthian them etcetera and we know that that approach has worked in the past. Because if you look at what happened with the gentleman who pick this up in Singapore. He went to the Alps. A bunch of people at a Ski Lodge Court from him then. There was a little mini outbreak. Almost in Brighton from this. But all those contacts retraced and neutralized as in it didn't spread any further. So we're comfortable that the containment strategy can work this stage but if the number start to inflate and we start to see many more cases which many of us expect we probably will see more cases you reach a point and we did the same thing with swine flu where you say. Well we can't contain it now. We need to switch strategies and at that point you then move into a sort of second phase which is minimizing the impact on the health service on the vulnerable and keeping services running. We've also seen example certainly here in the U. K. of much smaller enterprises than the national government making decisions whether that's been schools closing businesses sending their employees home. Is that kind of thing. Sensible or an overreaction. It's horses for courses. There will be circumstances where the best thing you can possibly do is to shut the school or to send home your employees. They will also be circumstances. Where this announcement overreaction? Personally I think that chevrons Approach Canary. Wharf in London was probably overcautious at this stage because the person has been diagnosed with anything at this stage and I am not sure that we know what the diagnosis is yet. So there was a little bit of a reaction to something that was a. What if scenario rather than this is a definite scenario and the wider picture? Here is you send your hundreds of employees home from their building. How do they get home when they go on public transport they go in the tube? Well how do they know that? You'll not actually flipping them out of the frying pan into the fire because they may brush up against a whole bunch of people on the underground gossip so you you may actually be making things safer by encouraging this sort of thing that said one must not be complacent and it's good to have a plan in place and we've heard reports today of many banks for example her saying we're GonNa Organize our workforce's into cohorts where we're GONNA have a stay at home cohort. We're going to have an public facing cohort we're GONNA have a back room cohort an in this way if any of them goes down with this. So there's an outbreak in one of those sectors probably in the workplace. You still got a bit of resilience because you've got a group of people who are working from home maintaining services and the fort so this stage. We just don't know how bad things are going to be going to get if bad at all so everyone's basically planning for the worst but rule hoping for the best. Obviously this is a situation in which messaging is of crucial importance and there is a tension between the need to disseminate useful information and the fact that the the world's news media does rather enjoy a good global health scare. What have you made of the tone of media coverage generally so far well given the I've created a lot of I think absolutely brilliant. No you're absolutely right because the the issue is I spoke to a journalist in Vietnam about two weeks ago. Who's been covering this story and of course Vietnam about China and neighboring country so much closer to the action than we are in the UK and he said the there has been a significant problem in Vietnam with fake news and in fact to the extent that the police have been going in arresting some of the protagonists carting them off to prison for actually creating public disorder spreading misinformation. So this has certainly been a problem and people are capitalizing on on the fear factor in order to create more kind of business for themselves if they sell mosques or hand cleansers for example. There's that going on one has to cut through that and keep in. Keep a clear picture of the fact that the flu which we've lived with for thousands of years kills about three quarters of a million people around the world on average every year in this virus. Okay it has a higher mortality rate than the flu. It appears to be more infectious than the average flu. But we're nowhere near the big numbers that we see with the flu at the moment and People. Jimmy don't bat and all. I lived about the flu by large and in fact Donald Trump was on the record last night when he addressed the nation where I was on a a report last night where he was he was giving his speech and he said I was shocked and I was told by by one of my staff that fifty thousand Americans died last year of the flu. And when that happens for you and one must keep this in mind that there are many other threats deciding us. This isn't the only one doctor Christmas. Thanks as always for joining us. We'll have more from Chris in the next episode of the foreign desk at midday London. Time this Saturday you listening to the briefing now with a look at the day's headlines here is monocled yelling often. Thanks Andrew Morton. Sixty people have been hurt in clashes between police and protesters on the Greek islands of Lesbos. And here's engines have been building there in recent weeks over plans to construct new migrant camps to Greek government has called for calm. It's an easiest. Parliament has approved a new coalition government following months of political wrangling however to North Africa nation faces an uphill battle in order to reverse years of sluggish economic growth persistent employment and deteriorating public services. And Michael Hurt's the man who designed the map of the New York City. Subway system has died. He was eighty seven. He's firm was hired by city transport officials to redesign the old map in one thousand. Nine hundred seventy s will have more on the story a little later on. Today's program does Today's headlines back to you Andrew. Thank you. You're you're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four now. Five years ago today Russian opposition figure head and former deputy prime minister. Boris Nemtsov was murdered on the Bolshoi Moskvoretsky Bridge in Moscow. The shots that killed him would have been audible. In the Kremlin Monaco's page Reynolds was in Moscow at the time. She joins me now. I can remember sitting in literally seat page As the news sort of started to break. I'm guessing that felt like a more dramatic event being actually in Moscow as people started to process what had happened. Yeah that was complete shock. I think and and disbelief. I was actually in in a cab at the time with a group of friends on the way back from Bob. Maybe two streets away from the from the bridge where it happened And I actually. I heard the news through the Russian radio station. That was playing Through through the taxi I'm picked on my phone and just had this wave of notifications from colleagues and and and and friends as well just asking exactly what happened It wasn't until the next day that I was sort of covering it in an official capacity for for the Moscow Times I must've gone down to the bridge at about eight thirty nine am and the crowds just kind of go go bigger and bigger makeshift altars being made impromptu speeches. That was this one older guy. Just kind of On repeat saying Moscow Russia. What's become of us? It was really there was a real mix of tragedy and and Sadness but it was a real indignation. People were quite angry from the off the that this had happened. So close to the Kremlin wars. I mean this is the bridge that the is Jason to the Russian government. And how could that happen? That was the question. And it's you know it's still the question. Now you know the five Chechens who were Put in in prison for this in two thousand seventeen as contract killers. But no-one said who ordered it. There's been no there's been no movement on. That was one of those things where people in Moscow had that shocked but not surprised thing because obviously setting yourself. In opposition to President Vladimir Putin is an infamously high risk occupation. Now of course you know. Russia's strange to this brutal disposal of people who are critical of Putin critical of the state. But do think you know. Boris Nemtsov was in in in in government himself. He was a former PM. He led Nijni Novgorod. I live six years. In the one thousand nine hundred ninety s he arguably it's the most high profile political assassination and in modern Russia. Like this was sort of next level particularly with with the proximity to to the government buildings And I think his legacy is just is quite immense that the got. He's left when you when you hear people talk about him. I mean he had so much energy and he had so much passion for modernizing Russia for for a European Russia. I mean his she just clip of him One of the final rallies Before he was murdered talking about The war in Ukraine and until Putin. They're we wanted with this. But I see that this Putina. I see UKRAINA THIS PUTINA. Give us a vague translating He's a he's just saying antiwar you know. I'm I'm like we should be against this war in Ukraine. We need to fight for Russian in Ukraine without Putin And you can sort of hear his voice there and you can hear how emotive he was as well as a speaker But really in order to kind of get a true sense of his legacy I spoke earlier with his colleague and close friend. vodka And we'RE GONNA hair clip of the interview now. Well we have a saying in Russian easy nuclear January right. There are no irreplaceable people Well I can tell you with certainty to that. Saying is not true. Boris Nemtsov was irreplaceable unmatched. In so many ways he was without any doubt the most effective the most prominent strongest leader of the Democratic Opposition to Vladimir Putin Knee had so many qualities you know in one single person that you don't frankly speaking nobody else in our ranks hat. He had successful government. Experience says the regional governor and then Deputy Prime Minister of Russia Ninety nine hundred very difficult time in our country economically but Boris Nemtsov managed to make his region inaugurals into one of the drivers of economic growth in one of economic leaders in the country. He had unparalleled charisma. I've never met anybody charismatic as him. Not just a politician but a human being full stop I mean he was. He was just such a brilliant an effective communicator with very different audiences. I mean you could find common language as it were I dunno local market salesman in Sochea pensioneer Babushka in Slava and a member of the American Congress. He was able to walk into a room full of people and even if the atmosphere was hostile and and people were kind of turned against him. At the beginning you know you'll speak. He would argue he would respond to. Questions hued argue again. Once he was done in once he left the Rome. Two thousand of the audience was side. I've never seen anybody else do this. He was very effective at organizing mass public protests against Lagman Putin regime. You know I mentioned this March against the war. With Ukraine two thousand fourteen. This was a time. As recalled when Kremlin propaganda. You know Russian state television channels will tell us every day that everybody in Russia supports lead. Methuen what he's doing and he's policies and so on and so forth and and Boris Nemtsov managed to organize tens of thousands of people to walk down the of Moscow in open protests against policy. He managed to do the impossible just over a year before he was killed in one a legislative seat in Yaroslavl became a member of the regional parliament. The first you know non systemic genuine opposition figure in Russia to do so under Vladamir Putin and last but certainly not least he was very effective in his international advocacy for targeted sanctions. In Western countries. Against those Kremlin officials not walks Gordon velden corruption and human rights abuses. There's nothing this regime fears more than this kind of targeted sanctions surf. All of those reasons. Boris Nemtsov was the strongest was the most prominent and yes. He was replaceable. Touching on fit that you're talking about. Do you think that five years on that fair has exacerbated to a point where Putin or at least the system of which he presides would get away with doing something like this like themselves assassination. Today the murder of Boris Nemtsov was the most high-profile political assassination in the modern history of Russia when people start talking about the human rights situation Russia or abuses against democracy in Russia. Whatever other kind of diplomatic euphemisms analysts in the media us about the situation country? I would say that look. If if the leader of the opposition can be mud steps away from the Kremlin Wall and five years on the organizers and masterminds of his have still not been apprehended and brought to justice and very continues to be shielded and protected by the top levels of the Russian government. What are the human rights abuses? Can we talk about? There's nothing worse than this. Guess one of the intended results was to instill fear among everything apart tremendous but I think in that they failed and we will see further proof of their failed this coming Saturday when thousands of people will once again walk down the streets of Moscow in remember some boys themselves but also in defiance of this regime and say also on behalf of not only the friends and supporters the boy himself but I know many people here in Russia that we are profoundly grateful to those public opinion leaders municipal officials members of parliament in West Democratic nations. Who sending messages off support and solidarity to those of us here in Russia. Genius to stand up for these values of freedom democracy and I think one of the most powerful ways they had been doing. This is by commemorating. Boris Nemtsov with street designations as Falwell's capitals Today have already done in Washington. Dc in Vilnius in Kiev. And as of this week in Prague Russian embassies a standing on squares on your parks that are named after Boris Nemtsov. There's a similar initiative that is being proposed in London was a supporter of parliament from all three major political cheesy conservatives Labour Paci Liberal Democrats and. I certainly hope that this initiative is also realized before long because you know Russia's our country symbols symbols matter and and this gesture that some people may see something symbolic and you know. What would people care about street name? I can tell you it's powerful and I can tell you is profoundly meaningful when people do send that message and for me as a Russian not only politician but as a Russian citizen that can be nothing more pro Russian then to name a street or square park in front of the Russian embassy after a Russian statesman. And I know whatever the people in the Kremlin. Think about this today. I know one day. Russia will be proud that our embassies in Washington vineyard and Kievan Prague and hopefully soon in London dining on streets that are named after Boris Nemtsov. That was flooded MIYAKAWA MILTA- in conversation with monocle. Twenty fours page Reynolds. You're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four Monaco and Rolex. Bring you the pioneers. The pioneers is a brand new series. That tells the stories of people improving the planet. A heroic supports these innovators with whom they share a passion to safeguard the fifth future. Generations gain precious insight into the fresh thinking that is disrupting received wisdom for the better and learn how Phyllis action continues to be the crucial driver of change. The pioneers important a ship with Rolex. You are listening to the briefing with me Andrew It's time now to take a longer look at the day's big stories with unused panel. Which today is lance price former director of communications for former UK? Prime Minister Tony Blair and Somnath Batmobile lecture in Media in development and international journalism at so us we will start with brexit and the customary pose while listeners of a sensitive disposition screaming to a pillow. The you go the. Uk's government has within the last hour or so published its strategy for trade talks with the EU. These will hopefully reveal a more sophisticated approach than what we have seen and heard from the UK's government so far which has been more evocative of a British tourist abroad assuming that if he yells at the way too in English loudly enough his desires will be obediently cited Lance Having had a brisk look at what the UK government is sitting out here. Are you now completely reassured that everything is going to be absolutely fallen? Well Boris Johnson is clearly convinced himself that everything is going to be absolutely fine and Michael g-o-v who's the minister responsible has been telling employees in the House of Commons that this morning but Looking at it from the outside. It's very hard to see where that confidence comes from aids a very hard line position that the UK has announced this morning. And I think it will be perceived in Brussels and by the negotiators for the You twenty-seven as showing a lack of good faith given what was contained in the political declaration. That was was agreed and At the end of last year and pave the way. Boris Johnson's Stonking general election victory which has given him the authority and obviously the confidence to take a very hard line position. Which is that. He doesn't see the need for any kind of regulatory Alignment of the sort that the European Union are saying. Essential to a deal as the two are very far apart. It raises the possibility again. Of course of not being deal at all and and the idea that no deal was off the table which led to the chain of events that produced the majority of the Boris Johnson has got was was clearly everyone of the mark. There was also some talk certainly shortly after the election. Vat that majority may give paradoxically. Boris Johnson the confidence to pursue a softer brexit. This idea being that he was no longer enthralled he was not enthralled Theresa May was To the swivel I'd head Bangers of the European research group and the Ilk dee think there is anything to that always was was that remains basically clinging to the last freeing shreds of optimism. They could gather around them. Yvonne City. Your question God's columnists hoping for a miracle there was of course this conversation that we do not know the real boys Johnson and I think we still do not know the real Johnson and what is Setting out to land a having this conversation just before that there might be and again. There's a huge might up an element of posturing in taking a hard stance as negotiators do before An agreement can be reached and Boris Johnson. Who actually has enough understanding to realize that if there is an agreement is not reached with the u the economic considerations will matter and will reflect very bad the government and therefore his election Janssen the next election. Go down again. This might be US hoping that. Cummings has less effect on Boris Johnson than we presume but the softer conversation around Brexit as I think has disappeared Where it lead us from disposition. He seems to be clearly saying that the government seems to be clearly saying that they want. Canada style agreement. The US position is UK's not Canada and we cannot give you that because of the US with the UK so It seems to be at this point. Kind of stalemate and as the government has indicated recently that they will walk away in June. If that doesn't seem to be enough progress and focused as government's effort on no deal Brexit. Luntz did want to ask about a possible inside. Westminster store in the wind in the last twenty four hours or so which referring again to these relied head bangers of the European research group Steve Baker. Mp The longtime chair has resigned as chair of the g sort of basically claiming job done mission accomplished He has handed that position over to mark Francois which will doubtless add considerably to the guilty of nations in coming weeks But he also deleted intriguingly a bunch of previous tweets about how easy brexit would be the whole sort of sunlit plans narrative. Are we already seeing people Beginning to indulge in an amount of preemptive blame gouging I think undoubtedly we are because that sort of optimism that you've been describing was always pie in the sky and I have to suspect have to believe because they're not entirely stupid people that they knew it was pie in the sky when they said it and in terms of the leaders of the government that we now have. I mean some of the things. Michael Job was saying and Boris Johnson himself and others during the referendum campaign about how easy all this was going to be. All of. That's been quietly forgotten. They're reminded of it from time to time and they sort of Hudson from Phan and change the conversation some of them. Do David Davis the former secretary of state for exiting near you. As recently as yesterday was wheeling out the they need us more than we need them yet. It's patently not true. We need an agreement far more urgently than the European Union. Do and of course on on the on the global scale we need a deal with the Americans far more than the Americans. They deal with us as we do with. India's we do with China as we do with so many other nations. We are in a very very weak negotiating position and I think one of the reasons for all this bluster is to make it sound as if we're a much stronger position than we really are. Okay well let's move along now and take a look at India which in recent days has been gripped by sectarian violence of the kind which will of surprised few who have paid much attention to the career of India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi more than thirty people are known to have been killed in New Delhi since Sunday after fighting began between protesters demonstrating for and against a new citizenship law. Hard to mistake as anything but I sort of bureaucratic pogrom against India's Muslim population in a discouraging development yesterday. A New Delhi High Court judge who criticised India's government and New Delhi Police Will swiftly reassigned some first of all. Just remind us if you would of what this new law actually means. And how mody proposes it will work of its wide-ranging lawn has three different parts to it but very very briefly that the main thrust is focusing on migrants on who is allowed into the country on on a religious basis which was never part of our constitution if six Christians but this Jen's from any particular country are allowed in and you're allowed to stay but if you are Muslim you're not and this is the basic understanding This citizenship bill has again. India has had so many different laws on who belongs and was one ban. God's I didn't identity and your belonging has been always a big series of conversation and this is not hasn't started with the movie government. Modi government has just brought this into focus in a big way in the last election. The fear is and as minister has clearly said is we want is Cha. Cha Korea is a is a checkered career of violence has clearly said that we want the Citizenship Amendment Bill to be implemented all over the country without exception now in places like the northeast India in places like Kashmir is difficult because of the border area long history of migration with Bangladesh with Pakistan and goes onto major complexities given the government's position Suddenly in different parts of the country which government I did not think expect but does have broken out and sustained protests over several months. Ba can moody and the Amish Shah and the rest of the government really have been surprised. The protests and the sectarian violence strike me at least as such an inevitable consequence of the citizenship law. That you might almost suspect. It's kind of what they want it. No the reason that this might not be true is that they got away very easily. The Kashmir situation where the decided to removed special constitutional provision. What's more we got away. We've got this was like Boris. The community a huge mandate pushed through the Kashmir situation. No one thought that will get get through so easily in parliament. It did so therefore the next one came and suddenly the protest erupted especially in universities across the country not only university which has a larger Muslim proposition but even others like Joel Hollander University the fire the sudden that several different levels to this one of the main things which have come across this is. I've been a witness to. This is how badly the bureaucracy has reacted to the police. The absolute inefficacy of the police to protect protesters Ordinary students in campuses in Joel Nehru Diversity in the Elegant University at the Jamir so this has been a few weeks now the last couple of weeks as Modi as trump's visit was looming. The conversation was up to level. Two where in Delhi politicians politicians on record in camera saying things like let's shoot the treatise in inciting violence. There's a gentleman called Copy Mishra. Who is being indicted in all of this by the liberal media but this is beyond one politician in a this is a general kind of mass hysteria being promoted by the ruling party and once the BJP lost the election in Delhi. This seemed to have had freehold to just create problems as a general rule. Because obviously there's different degrees of it all over the world but once any politician. Let's the angry nationalist toothpaste out of the Tube. How difficult is it to put it back in? It's extremely difficult to do. It and mody in this sense is a very very interesting case. I wrote a book about his first election. Spent several hours one on one with him trying to talk about these issues because the allegations about him either inciting intercommunal violence or when he was first minister of Gujarat standing back in allowing the security forces in the police to behave in ways that were considered to be unacceptable and I mean he rose widely held responsible for that he was refused entry to the United States for until he was elected prime minister he wasn't allowed to enter the United States. Obviously that only change them and and he wasn't really it was three percent on Roger in the UK as well So he has this cloud hanging over him and the suspicion that he is willing to if not himself incite violence to allow those within his party to incite violence and not to reprimand them not to rein them. In and to allow the security forces in the police Free rein and embiid even an ordinary wing. But it's you can never prove it. And of course there were detailed investigations into what happened in Godhra in in Gujarat. Back in two thousand and two two. Which kind of gave him a clean bill of health and he'll always claimed that it did but the suspicion will hang over him whether that matters to his constituency recent elections the last election on the one before that suggest not just a final quick thought on this. So I'm not because it's a thing I really don't understand with mody. Obviously he has leveraged a a certain amount of bigotry towards Muslims to his own electoral advantage. But what season game because this is not a small population in India. This is two hundred million people. He can't possibly want to rerun. Nineteen forty eight or even two thousand and two. So where where does he see this going? Big Question an interesting question. I think it's very closely related with ideology and the right-wing Ariza's ideology. He's Groomed Hill. I think the larger pattern of changing history rewriting history rewriting You know Our constitution his been challenging the kind of secularism of our constitution practices. So I think it's more than just a political and game of winning the next election Because he's he has been a r s scattered since his childhood. This is the sort of pseudo paramitra shoes rejoin Russia's civic so so what? This is what I fear and many others believe the same as that this goes beyond winning elections is goes into changing the psyche of this country. Okay we'll finally on today's news panel. Let's take a look at the United States the president of which. He's taking time out from his busy schedule of golf. Tanning beds and balking at the television. Like some big angry Walrus to sue the New York Times. Trump is alleging libel in a two thousand nine hundred ninety opinion piece by Max Frankel which alleged impropriety in the relationship between trump's two thousand sixteen presidential campaign and Russia while the Times is regrettably probably too Prim a journal to headline tomorrow's front page with come and have a go. If you think you're hard enough legal opinion thus far solicited by American media does not much fancy the president's chances Once the the word ridiculous is one. I have read repeatedly in interviews with American lawyers who've been asked about trump's chances of making this one stick. Why is he doing this? He's doing it simply in order to send a message to his supporters and those that he hopes will come over to his side that the media can't be trusted that they shouldn't listen to what the New York Times or did any other part of what he regards as the the fake news media says in the in the months to come during. What of course is presidential election year and that they should just take what he says at face value. I'm it's a piece of absolutely outrageous short. Spur on the behalf of a guy who if anyone were to try to challenge his right to freedom of speech would an out of the he would be slamming them down in an instant to try to and claiming that there is a justification for bringing this is just it fraudulent but does it some not what. I don't many things I don't understand about. Donald Trump in this particular instance. Does this even make sense from his point of view because I think it has become truism that every time he kicks off at the Times or any other outlet on social media they instantly put another twenty thousand subscribers. I cleaned of wish. He'd have put us from time to time. And Lord knows we have given him the material to work with. Does this actually make sense if you were him? It doesn't the sense that he's the strongman. Taking on the media. He will be tweeting about it. He will be this will be on his official pages and he runs a kind of note media service by himself every morning as he reads quite often through the knowledge. Quite tonight this is basically Guinness Land. Put it very well. One is posturing and getting ready for the next elections. But from your point of view lines as somebody who specialized in political communications has trump actually up ended what used to be a truism of politics. There's no mileage in whining about your media coverage it is probably I think the only circumstances in which I would approvingly quoted Powell who I think once said something to the effect that a politician complaining about the newspapers is like a site complaining. About the weather it is what it is deal with it. Absolutely his torn up the rule book of critical communications completely. He did it during his first. Election campaign is done it right through his period of of his presidency when people thought that he would have to then engaged with the media in order to get his message across the mainstream media. Clearly he doesn't have to do that and and I think he's simply encouraged by the fact that it seems to work so far so why not stick with it and if you carry on battering the median most on in this country is going on in in the United Kingdom? When on a much more sort of gentlemanly level? The Boris Johnson government is trying to that of the trying to batter those parts of the doesn't like and to get them In into line. It's just that this Donald Trump As he does with everything else. It's just doing it on a much. Bigger much bolder much more arrogant scale and as long as it works for military on doing it. 'cause it doesn't strike me some. A lot of the media hasn't quite figured out how to adjust to this. The the the media has pat's been accustomed to many years for my use. I to a certain amount of deference from somewhat cowed and frightened politicians if the politicians are no longer cowed and frightened. What is the media's best response is it to adjust the way they cover these politicians or is it just to stand their ground and say you want to do this? Let's do it. I wish I had answered. But the only option they have is to stand their ground and say that look. This is how we have done it. This is tradition and you cannot you cannot you might be able to buy processes. That's what mood is doing. That's what trump is doing. And perhaps what Boris might do later go straight to the public because of all the productions materials you have at hand You asked if the media has found out way no. We don't constantly trying to figure out how to play this new political game. How to engage with the political boss says because if no one turns the BBC Newsnight programme the BBC presenter has to rethink how to engage with with his his or our audience. So we really do not know at this point of time and it's a it's a it's a game which Donald Trump seems to be winning handsomely at this point of time as you said as long as he can continue to heal played some not bought the bio and lands price. Thank you both very much for joining us. You're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty Four. You're listening to the briefing with me. Andrew Miller to Malaysia. Now who's outgoing? Prime Minister and incoming prime minister may a certain eery resemblance. When is a resignation not a resignation? Listeners may be familiar with the concept of the French exit or the Irish goodbye. This is the practice of avoiding the tedious farewells associated with escaping a social gathering by sneaking out without telling anyone. We may now have a name for the opposite the Malaysian resignation. Which is what happens when you tell everyone you'll going and then stay to begin with breaking news out of Malaysia where the Prime Minister Menteur Muhammad has offered his resignation to the king and has a little party has quit the ruling alliance this week. Malaysian Prime Minister Maha Tim. Mohammed resigned. Much Malaysian opinion expressed surprise at Mohammed decision to quit but maybe it was as simple as Mohammed having decided that at ninety four. He's getting a bit old for this sort of thing. Pop Quiz enthusiasts duly noted that upon Muhammed's departure from office the world's oldest elected national leader would become pull beer president of Cameroon. A relatively sprightly eighty seven. They may have updated their spreadsheets. Too soon. No sooner had Mohammed tended his resignation to Malaysia's King Abdullah of Penang then His majesty appointed Mohammad Interim Prime Minister it now that this interval may be indefinite at least if Mahato. Muhammed has any say in proceedings. Sayer alcon Cumali Dida Dida. If it is true that I still come on support I will return if not I will accept whoever is chosen. The opportunity for leadership is still there. I am just off the opinion that he finds steel supported by all sites. It is not time for me to resign. Baha Myself into town. There were ten balloon. Tiba Maha to Muhammad's most recent stint as prime minister which began in two thousand. Eighteen was his second. His first characterized by both commendable modernization and miserable repression lasted twenty two years from one thousand nine hundred one to two thousand and three were one trying to argue that anyone else is the most influential figure in Malaysia. Post independence history. One would need to make an especially convincing case when Muhammad reentered Malaysian politics before the two thousand eighteen election attempting to defeat the own. No party he had lived for many years. He did so also he said to atone for what he called the biggest mistake of my life. This was the encouragement of his protege nudge. Brazil who had become prime minister in two thousand nine and by two thousand eighteen was thoroughly enmeshed in what had become known as the one. Md BE SCANDAL. Investigations are ongoing but Malaysians yet to hear an entirely satisfactory explanation as to why properties linked to. Najib were discovered by enquiring police to have fourteen hundred necklaces. Four hundred twenty three watches. Five hundred sixty seven handbags sixteen hundred broaches two thousand two hundred rings on fourteen tiaras stashed in the attics and sideboards gas on Possession follow and some friends and what Mood Razzaq next step. After his election loss to Mohammed was caught where his trial on corruption charges continues? Razzaq denies everything as is traditional in such circumstances policy. He what you went to do. This one Muhammad was reelected in two thousand eighteen age. Ninety two he said that he only intended to do the job for two years at which he would hand over to his former deputy and intermittent nemesis Anwar Ibrahim with whom Mohammed has had a complex relationship in that Mohammed has at various points contrive to have Ibrahim imprisoned on dubious charges pertaining to alleged homosexuality which remains illegal in Malaysia New Policy Macabre. He doesn't want people to focus on his demeanor. He wants to be too a leader and contrive to have Ibrahim released from prison. He is willing to pardon that three immediately. Muhammed now appears to have rethought the plan to hand power over. To Abraham indeed a cynical observer might suspect Mohammad of having staged this week's crisis precisely to avoid having to do so on Wednesday. Muhammed spoke to Malaysia's people to announce his intention to lead a new national unity government comprised of public-spirited. Mp's willing to place country above party and it might be reasonably wanted. Mahato muhammed above country or party in a stiff challenge to the capacity of Malaysian voters to cope with cognitive dissonance. Muhammed both explained his desire to carry on and piously refuted any pernicious allegations that he was power hungry and never intended to relinquish the premiership perish. The thought I seek forgiveness pleaded Muhammed Wednesdays address if my active resigning was Roende Louisa de la Saleh it is a common failing of people who have held power past a certain length of time that they cannot countenance or perhaps even imagine anybody else holding it. They sometimes succeed in encouraging the same mental block among their people. And this Braley ends well as we go to where there are indications that not. Everyone is persuaded off. Mohammed's indispensability the Pacatan Harapan coalition. Muhammed had lived until Monday announced that it would go ahead and nominate his great rival. And what you bring him to succeed him after all the lemon loon Khan and Lebron James Three but he could have done but it might be that only a new election will settle the matter but my Hoti Muhammad may well believe that contesting one. Ninety four is no sillier than doing so at ninety two Anwar Ibrahim has probably reassured himself before. Now that muhammed count go on forever. He'll be right eventually for monocle. Twenty Four. I'm Andrew Mullen in Monocle Rolex bring you. The PYAN is for the founder of Rolex. Hands will stove the world was like Living Laboratory. He began to use it as a testing ground for watches from the nine hundred. Thirty s sending them to the most extreme locations supporting explorers who ventured into the unknown but the world has changed as the twenty th century unfolds exploration for pure discovery has given way to it as a means to preserve the natural world. Rolette continues this legacy of its founder. Supporting Explorers Day on the new mission to make the planet perpetual. Learn more with the pioneers in partnership with Rolex time now to take what may be a record setting. Lee Brisk look at the morning. Newspapers are enjoined by Mongols Business Editor. Venetia rainy we have. We have a lot of news and not much time to discuss it in right well it starts and one of the stories on the page. Five of the New York Times is about how? South Korea is trying a different tactic to what's been seen in China to tackle with the second biggest outbreak of the corona virus. So in the city of Day Goo it's trying to keep things open businesses. Still going there. Sterilizing everything by making a point of telling people that the sterilizing everything and asking people to keep coming in and they've also seen a massive spike delivery services to try and keep things going while accommodating the fact that some people want to stay in the homes and not have too much contact with other people you compare and contrast we will be doing in greater detail on this. Saturday's edition of the foreign desk. So thank you for teeing up that plug What is next in the pile there? I believe there was an Australia story. Yes so this is about how? Okay the the bush fires over Australia but actually the problems aren't what are seeing now after years of drought which preceded all these bushfires of caught the attention. The News recently. is enormous rains which is probably been caused by the hotter weather it causes the cloud to absorb moisture and of course the ground can't cope with it because it's dry and I was saying flooding and this is a cycle with which rural people in Australia. Wretchedly familiar many of my family among them. But bit this year as this pace notes. I guess it's everything is even weirder in wilder than usual. Yeah it's been particularly bad. People are really struggling to decide whether to rebuild. There's not much clear advice from the government about whether to be optimistic whether to pack up and move elsewhere so it's a confused picture and Yeah troubled year POPs Stralia for the Dome of Platelets. We have the the telltale salmon of the tea. Yes this is a nice story about trying to find trying to find the like new facebook Google's snapchat trying tip foster entrepreneurship in our students This article notes that that so many of the big companies that dominate the tech world today came were developed on campuses. So there's now a tech investor who set up a program to encourage venture capitalism among students. So they can find Startups amongst their peers which they think have potential so wh want to encourage young people to do more unbearable incomprehensible things on the Internet. Yeah kind of they want students into. Vc's and get them to spot the opportunities that maybe we can't see once outside of that ecosystem and finally and finally So on the Guardian Bird about saying and finally just in case it doesn't turn out to be an and finally story and finally your that's this is about a New Zealand bringing in sleep pods for the economy passengers. You still have to buy a seat but there will also potentially be the option of little put where you can get some sleep on one of the seventeen. Our flights for example to New York jets sounds quite good except I do have the terrible sinking feeling that the difference between buying an economy seat and asleep pod and paying for just a flatbed in business class. Anyway it's going to be that being. Well I'm hyping. They've left that out because so do because it looks as as as somebody who does a flight of roughly that distance at least once it does look lovely. The mock-ups do look enticing. And you just never get the right kind of sleep in a seat right. This just never a comfortable position. They really isn't We can but hope but a I think it will look more into that one If New Zealand turns out to be serious about it For the moment Venetia Rainy. Thank you for joining us. You are listening to the briefing. You are listening to the briefing with me. Andrew Miller finally today as we reported in the headlines a little earlier urban cartography enthusiasts mourning the passing of Michael. Hurt's the graphic designer responsible for the map of New York City. Subway at the time hurts. I drew his map in the nineteen seventies however the network. He depicted was significantly less pretty than his picture. New York subway was infamous as the layer of human creatures that would have been regarded as off putting Lee Weird or dangerous even on Manhattan's above ground streets of the period. One join now with more on this by a veteran or perhaps a survivor of the New York of that time. Peter Goodman Global Economics correspondent for the New York Times. Peter Really seriously if you think back on the New York you grew up in how rough was it. It was pretty rough. Well I mean I will say it's still pretty rough To to is that our customers other systems. But yeah you know you. You went into the subway and expected to see a lot of garbage you could find rats and still see rats running up and down the tracks off and on the platforms. There were homeless people. There still aren't homeless people But there was the threat of crime which is something that has almost entirely disappeared From much of the city You knew that Muggings were a real possibility. You could encounter drunks and drug addicts and People who were not able to find a bed in a mental health institution. We're taking refuge at the subway. Anybody who's familiar with New York listens to what I'm saying. Say Go find all these things today. And that's that's true but but it is definitely a different experience. And it was back in the sixties and Seventies. Was it bad enough? That people went out of their way to avoid it. Did you walk? Take taxis rather than use the subway. Well I mean people have. Money did sure Taxis cost a lot more money. People people ordinary people maybe take the bus instead of getting on the subway And and would would walk. Ridership rates to show that there was a dip in the sixties and And into the seventies and then as things started to improve I mean. His crime was reduced in New York. more people started returning. There are still huge problems in the subway More problems in many respects than there were decades. Go system is is breaking down on Trains are constantly going out of service or are legion. There's lots of trackwork being done especially on the weekends. So it's it's by no means a reliable and beloved way to get around but it is the way to get around the what you're saying chimes in exactly with my own experience at the New York subway I I went to New York City. I think in about nine hundred ninety nine hundred ninety one obviously arrived with a head full of all these urban fables about what the subway was like before I I plan today trembling foot on the staircase taking me down to it and I didn't found this. Find the subway and haven't since founded actually especially. We do dangerous but just bazaar Lee unpleasant noisy filthy and when compared to almost every other major metro system. Just terrible really. I mean I think we can go too far with this. I mean you know. We're sitting in London where the subway is much more comfortable. The trains come much more frequent way. But they don't run on the night in. The subway runs all night It can take an awful lot of time to get down to a tube in London in New York here. They're pretty much immediately the colors or wider than in London and much better Built for for rush hour Even when it's crowded You can figure out how to force your way in and I think people in New Yorker are much more accustomed to dealing with ground conditions than they are in other parts of the world like London people reflexively get out of the way When you come to a stop if it's crowd they're standing in your way 'cause they know that they're gonNA get shoved if if if they don't so. I mean it's functional system until it breaks down what you're far too often. It can't be extremely unpleasant but it can also be. It is typically the most efficient way to get from one place to the doesn't strike you though that especially given that it does serve a city which should be exactly the kind of city which has a perfectly quiet clean efficient and absolutely top of the writing. Subway did it still serves as a representation of America's relative lack of interest in public transport. Generally oh I mean a thousand percent that yes. I mean the subway like most infrastructurally. United States is a monument to the fact that people really don't like to pay taxes. I mean there's there's a feeling amongst Certainly wealthy people who are increasingly really wealthy. People are hopping on an helicopters and zipping around the world to to urge content The wealthiest CEO's on Wall Street or getting on and off private jets. And they're they're in and out of chauffeured limousines and there is a disdain for public infrastructure that I think is uniquely American. This feeling that it's almost like a welfare system for people who haven't tried hard enough to find their way into the corner office and that's that's a real problem in terms of Finance public infrastructure. It's actually better in new. York is in a lot of the country and I mean a lot of the state's scrolling cities in south of the United States. Public bus network doesn't get up people in downtown areas to the places out on the suburban fringes. Where most of the job you are? This is a real problem. In terms of the labor market and a lot has to do with white flight to the suburbs and as inner cities become a places that are predominantly African American Way people who can depend on many bands to take their kids around. Don't WANNA pay for poor people get on the bus in New York? There's much more diversity. The subways seems something that belongs to better for worst to everybody. But it's still very difficult politically to come up with the cash to make it work properly and to make it more pleasant. Pd Goodman thank you for us. Studies all for today's edition of the briefing. It was produced by reese. James Carlotta Rebelo yelling govern. It was researched by Charlie German and studio manager. Today was Louis Allen. I'm Andrew. Thanks very much for listening.
Friday 16 October
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast the sixteenth of October two, thousand and twenty on Monocle Twenty-four. The briefing is brought to you in association with Novartis. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio one here Midori House in London I'm Andrew Miller coming up the EU and the UK on the brink of concluding a successful Brexit, a code or will the talks collapsed altogether we'll have the latest also ahead. I'm David Stevens, Monaco's resident. Koa and I'll be telling you why you wherever you are in the world should be paying attention. The New Zealand election results the Saturday plus news editor Christian Mac will have the latest on the US election campaign and I'll be assessing what the past seven days have taught us. That's all coming up right here on the briefing monocle twenty four. And Welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me, Andrew? Muller older listeners may recall a time when October fifteenth was last ditch do-or-die deadline by which agreement between the UK and the EU had to be reached else the UK would sail full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes towards a no deal brexit on December thirty first that deadline yesterday and almost as if the UK government is desperately bluffing negotiations appear to be very much ongoing after a you leaders conclude a meeting in Brussels UK Prime Minister. Boris. Johnson will speak on this subject later today one join with more on this by Stephanie, Boston UK and Ireland correspondent for developed. Stephanie How Does the EU take the UK's deadlines at this point the. Statement suggested that it's now up to the UK to quote. Mike necessary moves. I think the the European Union never took that deadline series at all I. Mean after all as you just set a new introduction. To have been so many deadlines I admit I'm also old I forget. deadlines that Boris Johnson has been giving thirty to thirty. First, of January, thirty first of December now, it's the fifteenth Tober. Never took it seriously because if you talk to the people who really understand the? Material Challenges in drafting legal texts they were saying First of all, there were two big gaps in really crucial issues and the second is even if you then can fill gaps politically, you have to then do the precision work of legal wording and that can't be done. In the Metro for night and so there was always an expectation that this European Council will come and go, and then they will sit down again and by early November conclude hopefully. So what are those gaps as things stand such sticking points as there are what other? where the main thing is state aid or what would with the would of other term state aid is meant which is well the Europeans rather call it playing seal that is something that has been written into the mandate from the very beginning back in twenty seventeen. And that means that because the United Kingdom is not a member of the European Union anymore. But is so close. It's a neighbor and should have free access to the European market. The British government needs to follow also the rules of competition. So for example, state eight, I remember in the summer I was in Berlin and someone in the German government made the point to me that. What the Europeans cannot accept for example, the British government giving millions and millions to Japanese carmaker. Attracts them to come to say Sunderland Create fifteen thousand jobs not fulfill the standards that the European Union expects for this kind of production and then be able to. Export freely into the European market. So basically dumping wages dumping competition that's something that is not not on the cards. For the Europeans, we would be deeply cynical view for the EU to take but then this is politics. Do they feel like the pandemic and the associated economic damage caused by might actually have strengthened the E. US hand in these negotiations, which is to say the UK will be much much less keen to risk the further disruption and expense no deal brexit. Yeah I think I mean you might say that's a bit cynical but of course, they looking at the situation in their own countries and of course, at the situation, the economic situation in the United Kingdom, which is very, very dire expected to be many many job losses in the months to come already we had. An economic downturn of almost twenty percents of GDP, of course. If there wasn't the pandemic, it would be easier for Boris. Johnson to walk away also had in mind when he won the election year ago December twenty nineteen, he campaigned on the platform saying I have a deal. So people believed him and he they voted him because he had an oven ready deal now, not even twelve months later he comes back and says, oh, by the way, I don't have a deal and that means that will be tariffs that will be used on the border. They will be higher prices they will be again problems to have everything in the supermarkets to the towards the end of the year early twenty twenty one. So that doesn't really go down well with his new voters in the north who were expected to not only brexit but sunlit landscapes. I mean from your point of view covering all this for a a German readership how hard is it to keep them interested in this especially given the the pandemic, which is much greater priority for all countries to do you get the sense that not necessarily European leaders but European public still paying any attention to this at all. They do a little bit of attention but to be honest yes, I mean in Germany because of rising number SOC new infections and new rules coming in and quite a lot of tensions now between Democrats and the the region's a difficult to to get attention I'm I think there is also an image problem for the United Kingdom now because all the news that are coming out whether it's with German TV radio or even pay person. Is Rather say not very complimentary of the British government in how they manage covet in how they manage. Brexit. But I must say when I read David tweet class. WHO's the chief negotiator for Britain and he said he was very disappointed and then set the prime minister said something on September nine, which was if there's nothing we can work with on October fifteen we will walk away. I think is a slight chance. He might walk away because they have been reckless if you remember the internal market bill with which they brought. Have Broken International Law I. Think There's a certain recklessness in this government so I don't completely exclude that in two or three hours whenever he announces stays, he might walk away. So on that from, there's been a lot of talk in British press. This week of those aerial photographs of sections of Kent being turned into a lorry parked does it strike you that perhaps those are actual serious preparations rather than more theatrical bluffing. No of course, these are serious preparations you have to be prepared and not only even in the case of a deal. If there is if there's no deal will be catastrophic even if it's the deal, still the fact is the United Kingdom has left the European single market, and therefore they have to be checks on the border whether it's from Franz coming into job. I think it's around ten thousand lorries a day in maximum times that have to cross go back and forth in this tiny little place pulled off Dover. And therefore you have to expect massive queues and they they already started with these preparations I remember like almost two summers ago when you drove down to what Folkston, you would see these additional catch that we're building. Now they're building the parking spaces. So obviously we have to expect. Destruction and maybe severe disruption Stephanie. Balls and. He's joining us. You're listening to the briefing here is Monaco's yelling found with the days of the headlines Thanks Andrew the World Health Organization has called for the implementation of measures fulling sharp rise in the number of corona virus cases across Europe to who says the measures are absolutely necessary to save life's. The Armenian prime minister. Nicole Shinhan has admitted that his forces have suffered significant casualties in nagorno-karabakh Armenia and other by John are fighting for control of the disputed region. Malaysia asking all sorts on. Abdulah has urged the country's leaders to begin political negotiations. It comes amid a power struggle between prime minister, Muhyiddin Yassin and opposition leader. Anwar Ibrahim and Kia has announced a buyback scheme. The project will allow customers to return goods, which will then be resold shops a second hand for more on this story head to Monaco Dot com slash minute does today's headlines back to you Andrew. Thank you your lane. It's now just eighteen days until the US presidential election and possibly just ninety six days until President Joe Biden takes the oath of office on the Capitol Steps while Donald Trump storms around the White House balustrades in his dressing gown throwing roof slates police. Both men appeared on television last night in meet the voter events president trump's notable for his refusal. To disavow his recent endorsement of a notably loopy Cuban on conspiracy theory moral nut later in the show while Biden declined to address suggestions that Democratic Senate might seek to expand and indeed stack the Supreme Court on joined in the studio with more on all of this. By monocle, news editor Chris Chuck I'm Chris. Festival did you make of the town halls contrasting and indeed overlapping? First of all, maybe to add, we talked on this show a couple of weeks ago without the presidential debate, the first one that happened, and while I would have advised people not even to bother particularly listening to that debate, these town halls were actually interesting and so I would recommend people listened to both actually because you can gleam a good amount of information from the candidates because both were pressed actually on issues both by the moderators. But also by the public in general. So it really wasn't interesting contrast in styles, but it really got into some of the nitty gritty issues which we can talk about it is a format which I think suits these two candidates better for different reasons because I think even trump realizes that he can't go full trumpet actual voters he does have to try and engage with them. Yes. I think that's true And it was also about some of the pressing questions that he received both from from people, but also from the moderator. So a couple of interesting points you alluded to there in the introduction from Donald Trump that I'd highlight that we learned one he admitted to having about four hundred million dollars in debt. He passed this off though as something that is quite common for business people and real estate. But nevertheless interestingly, the actually was pushed on that a couple of other things that I found interesting. Was He for the first time did more openly commit to a peaceful transition of power I? Think that was quite significant. Again, this was because he was pressed on the topic in a way that he couldn't be in the debates but he did continue at the same time to warn about fraudulent ballots and say he doesn't want a transition of power because he wants to win. So there's still a lot of know. riskiness in there and a third one that I would point out that you that you mentioned on the one hand trump very strongly condemned white supremacy. He said the words and he said repeatedly I condemn supremacy but then he went on to refuse to condemn, Cunanan. A conspiracy theory about Democrats being a satanic cult that supports paedophilia and he very significantly simply said I don't know about that and he repeated multiple times and then went on to say what I do know is that Cunanan cares a lot about paid A. So, there were a lot of contrast, but in a way that he was very significantly pressed in in ways that I don't think he has been in the past and to go to Biden very quickly on that two things that were interesting from his though encourage people to listen to one. He was pressed on whether he would expand the Supreme Court. and he committed to coming out with a clear position ahead of Election Day on that depending on what happens in the hearings of Coney Barrett weather, she is confirmed as Supreme Court Justice by Republicans are not committed to say. Whether, he would expand the Supreme Court if elected president or not before Election Day, and finally, there was a very interesting discussion about how to Confront Crime Systemic Racial bias in the United States he said that a federal crime bill passed in one, thousand, nine, hundred, four was a mistake. It was a mistake for him to support it, but he also talked. Quite eloquently about how times have changed how that was the right approach at the time supported by many African American as well. But things have changed. Now we need to move along with that Joe Biden son Hunter has also found himself in the headlines again, this week, which will have been something that Joe Biden was very much not going to happen again. Yes this was a really interesting one. I have to say as a story not so much about Hunter Biden himself but but what happened around it and I'll describe quickly essentially the New York Post published a story containing a number of emails it had received from Hunter, Biden, or correspondence that he had over his time working in the Ukraine for A. Gas Company and other things among them was this claim one adviser to a Ukrainian energy company thanked hunter. Biden. For organizing a meeting with Joe. Biden. At the White House the White House or a Joe Biden's people I should say this meeting never actually happened. So whether Hunter Biden was engaged in a conflict of interest or not he did not succeed. In that conflict of interest what was more interesting though was twitter went on to ban these this article from the new. York. Post from being spread in twitter posts or even in personal conversations their claim was the articles information had been a been received through hacking because they'd been received through a laptop that Hunter Biden had left in a store. It also contains screen shots of personal information. This seems like a slippery slope for twitter to put a foot on doesn't exactly and that's what came out this. Of course then highlighted by conservatives as a case of them being prevented from talking about the important issues prevented. Stymied on social media twitter apologized later admitted they didn't explain their reasoning at all also for why they had stopped this article from being being posted and reverse their policy as a result. But I think this is going to be an ongoing difficult conversation. Both sides are hugely upset with social media and twitter for the role that they are playing in this campaign, what they should prevent from. Being out there and what they should not prevent from coming out that we should talk finally quickly about the actual voting part of this election because of the we have been talking about November third as election day, and indeed it is a mini millions of Americans have voted already it is interesting. So nearly twenty million Americans have already voted that is a record for this point in time About eighty million, Americans have requested mail in ballots, which is significant or that's from among two hundred and forty or so eligible voters. So yes, this election is already playing out and it'll be you know it's hard to say at this point, but it's something that could potentially benefit Joe. Biden for a couple of reasons mail in ballots have tended to help absentees have tended to lean a little more democratic but more importantly perhaps, Donald Trump has tried very strongly to. to resist male inbound to tell people not to take mail in ballots to vote on election day. What does that mean? What means that Democrats are the ones that are actually requesting male unbalanced more than Republicans and this is something that some Republicans under Donald Trump below donald trump are worried about because they're worried that where Republicans might not be as easily able to go. Out on election day, particularly older older voters and yet they're not going to request mail in ballots because they're afraid of fraud that does not necessarily exist Christian Mac. Thank you for joining us up walls. Monaco's news editor Chris. Tomac. You're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four. We will be back right after this is this is proud to partner the briefing on monocle twenty four. Is a company that is committed to reimagining medicine global health care leader intent on changing the practice of medicine. Novartis's being exploring uncharted frontiers and science for more than a century today the company is working on breakthrough treatments that pushed the boundaries of human understanding and biology data science and engineering to develop and deliver therapies that help people live longer and healthier lives around the World Novartis reimagining medicine. You are back with the briefing on monocle twenty, four boundary mullet New Zealanders will go to the polls a few hours from now in a general election, it will be the first general election faced is Kiwi prime minister by just Darden Ogden has acquired an international renown far beyond that of anybody who has held her office previously due to her admirable responses to crises of assault also undreamt of by her predecessors, a monstrous terrorist attack and a global pandemic closing. The country off from the world. If non New Zealanders revolting it's hard to see how she'd lose. But she as popular with the people who are actually making the decision will joining me with more on. This is Monaco twenty-four David Stevens who as his accent will shortly betray is One of those people David first of all to that global stature of just in Dorado I, think I'm right in saying is the first ever willed famous Kiwi Prime Minister. How does that play at home? I mean. So she's obviously a huge celebrity prime minister as we know. Harm, she actually has to do some things. Finan Kiwis it's not as important she. She makes a nice speech or as you know. kind of out full communicator as she is it's always a bit less romantic when you actually have to live with autism center. Exactly right and she says she's actually had a term in office now and while she is hugely popular. So she's The most recent poll header is a fifty two point, six percent preferred prime minister, which is huge basically so before. The great many incumbents would sign for exactly eighteen percent for her opposition leader Judith Collins a big a big trough between them. She was thirty percent going into the last election. So she's she's shot up almost by by double. So hugely popular still in New Zealand and that's got to be you know to do with what what you mentioned at the top the response to. The horrible mosque attacks in Christ church and to the global pandemic she's she's playing well, and by fields I'd say, yeah. Well, if if it seems very unlikely that she won't come out of this as prime minister, is there any chance that she comes out of it as prime minister we've an actual majority for her Labor Party in parliament, which is not something she presently has not actually presently has it's also not something that has ever happened under impey's style of fighting in New Zealand. So. It's possible. In fact, the the most recent poll header, fifty, nine seats, and there is one hundred and twenty and the New Zealand Parliament. So she's only two off a majority on on heroin. So very much as possible labor forty, six percent translates to fifty states it could happen it would be the first on. That's that's one reason to watch. I mean there's plenty more. There is there are a few other subplots to this Election dairies the possible end of the road for her coalition partner Winston Peters a man of malleable convictions I. Think it's fair to say but who has. Conducted an extraordinarily Agile Korea throughout Kiwi politics but Monte have run out of road and date he he might have in. It's looking increasingly likely that has his party weren't having any seats in parliament is not the first time. It's happened but he is he he's getting on now he's seventy five years old. He's he's been the leader of the New Zealand. Fist Potty foot for twenty seven years the entire existence of the New Zealand First Party I'm going to predict now. I say if they make no seats in parliament that he might be resigning after this election and there is also The fact that cutting New Zealand off from the world has unfortunately not cut a cup New Zealand off from the global craze in conspiracy theories and the the foil hazard among your fellow citizens do have a party they can vote for tomorrow they do you like this Nicole Advanced New Zealand as opposed to a earlier party called on who didn't quite share the same politics shall we say so advanced New Zealand an anti corruption party whose leader Jamie Lee is currently being investigated by the Serious Fraud Office. Excellent and they were a collaboration with the New Zealand Public Potty lead by an anti mask anti five G. Conspiracy Nut. So Watch if either of those appear on the election coverage, it's going to be great TV. So Watch out for them. Well, let's proceed in the cheerful assumption that they will prove to be marginal players. Aside from everything we've already discussed what have struck. You been the issues on which New Zealand are actually voting. Well, I mean there's the obvious one, the corvette issue, but for for New Zealand that also brings up the border issue. It's been A. Into what extent do we stop going places again exactly and has been such a strong border policy basically everyone goes into a mandatory quarantine. You know a government facility at a hotel, but you can't just go home in quarantine you pay for that as well. it's too I'm going home for Christmas and I'm GonNa be paying you know three thousand New Zealand and I'm going to. Be In a hotel for two weeks before I can say my family. So it's it's quite it's quite strong other than their housing is always a huge issue, a New Zealand poverty and homelessness climate change especially in the face of a huge reliance on primary industries it's all there. It's all it's all to play for David Stevens. Thank you for joining us. You're listening to the briefing. This is the briefing with me Andrew Mullah finally today, and indeed finally this week, it's time for our regular somber reflection on the lessons thrashed into a spy the last seven days. Remember when you ran away and I got on my knees and June not to leave because Saigo Berserk. Well, we learned this week that Osama bin Laden former leader of al-Qaeda generally assumed to have been killed by US Navy Seals in a raid on his compound in bought above in two thousand eleven is in fact, still alive we're going to need a clip of someone sewing theatrically. Really. We learned this from. US President. Benito off man again every single week study don't overplay it. Donald Trump found I'm in-between exhaling covid nineteen particles over delirious crowds of mooing yokels to read tweet the theory concocted by some of the queue and on crazed crank. But Barack, Obama and Joe Biden conspired with Iran to stage a bogus rate in which bin Laden body double was killed. It has to be hoped he charged weekend rates for that and then ordered the shooting down of the seal team's helicopter to hide the truth. Something like that. Anyway, we confess to being hazy on the details because honestly who cares, but it must be true because it has been endowed with the gravitas conferred by the office of President of the United States, and if there's one thing we have learned by now, it's that Donald Trump Donald John trump can always be relied upon not to believe and Dora amplify whatever mad driven drifts across his phone screen while he's barking television in the small hours. No I'm utterly. Coming to just over two more weeks until election day still time to try and put awesome the supreme. Court. If Amy Coney Barrett doesn't get up. Make Pastor. But we also learned that if there is out there a constituency for the manifestly unqualified showbiz Yahoo candidates. So hard core that believes Donald Trump now, unacceptably tarnished by four years of holding actual office then they too will be catered for come November third America. What is America's destiny? What is best for our nation our people? What is just true justice we have to think about Kanye west who listeners may recall being a wrapper of some consequence unleashed the first advertiment of his two thousand and twenty presidential campaign apparently scripted by one of those people who Yael scripture through a megaphone irritated commuters. It was a company, a series of Manifesto Commitments Printing tightly in capitals and accompanied by Bible verses a combination, not anyways a bankable indicator, only a mind to the world but we. So we learned that of all the critical discussion and dissection don of West's works over the years it may be that none were more accurate than the two thousand, nine contribution of a man who wants held the job he now seeks. Edison perfectly Nice Person. She's getting her award. Let's. Do that. Jackass. Still Barrack Obama making fun of thin-skinned celebrities has hardly ever come back to. Before Here, in the UK, we learned that at least until the next imposition of bewildering covid nineteen restrictions. So possibly, before the end of this monologue, the country will henceforth be organized by tears. We will not simplify and standardize our local rules by introducing a three tier system of local covid alert levels in England setted medium high in very. Windy. And why yes, we have queued up the beats version of smokey. Robinson's tease over clown for devastating satirical effect. In Tier One, as we understand that groups of six people can meet beneath oak trees. No taller than fifteen meters on. Thursdays as long as everyone faces east nobody is called Kevin and someone brings a bassoon in tier two groups can be no larger than four as long as all conversation is conducted in Latin, everyone dresses as a wizard, and there are no herons in tier three nobody can do anything but sit inside alone their laptops lazily slinging together surreal juxtaposition making weary of the covid nineteen days. We would like to reassure listeners who have spotted the soundtrack to this bit, and that is ninety six tears by nine hundred and sixty one garage rockers question mark and the mysterious. That, we will not be doing another ninety three of these we could but we would thanks question mark and the guys. And we learned. That the American. State of Iowa credits, officials song from a German Christmas Carol, which frankly makes us think somewhat the less of it and we learned that because in the interests of caning the US presidential election while we still can we're going to end this week by noting that we learned that the people of the Hawkeye state have been presented with the best imaginable incentive for switching their allegiance back to the Democrats. Vote because if I don't get I oh, I believe. I may never have to come back here again if I get Iowa never be. Confessed to evade worry that all things considered this could work for him. And that is all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced by race James on your Lingo Fan Studio Manager Today was Louis Alan the briefing returns on Monday at the same time midday, UK. I'm Andrew Miller thanks for listening and have a great weekend.
Monday 24 February
"You're listening to Monaco's house. Few first broadcast on the twenty fourth of February two thousand twenty on monocle twenty four. This is medical house tea with Emma Nelson and a very warm welcome to today's program. Coming UP MY Steve. Crucial and Quentin Peel will examine the changing shape of German politics following regional elections in Hamburg bus when assess the latest democratic campaign? Victory for the Mont Senator Bernie Sanders on the world. Photography awards removes Hong Kong protests shots for being too politically sensitive also ahead. The hope is to finally break the political deadlock that has evolved between incumbent. Likud Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his rival blue and white party leader. Benny Ganz Israel enters the final week of campaigning ahead of a third general election in a year. I'm Emily Johnson Monaco's house few starts now. Welcome to the program. I joined in the studio by Steve Crucial Political Director at freedom from torture and the author of several books on political protests and by Quentin Peel. He's a form of Berlin correspondent for the Financial Times. Welcome both gentlemen to the studio good to see. Let's begin in the United States where Bernie Sanders has firmly cemented his position as front runner in the race to be the Democratic presidential nominee. He comfortably won the Nevada caucus claiming he alone had what it takes to bring all walks of American life together to fight Donald Trump now trump and his friends. They are GonNa win this election. They think they're going to win. This election by the voiding our people up based on the color of their skin or where they were born or their religion or their sexual orientation. We all go to win because we are doing exactly the opposite. Where bringing people together. Benny Saunders in triumphant mood following the Nevada Caucus Steve. Let's begin with you. What do we make of sound as astonishing performance? Yes it's extraordinary with politics. More generally what we've had in the past couple of years both in the UK and the US repeatedly as things seem completely impossible than happen happens consistently Commentators including like us us so often ending up with egg on their faces and there are small power. That was what we saw in the UK where you had Jeremy Corbyn who was repeatedly couldn't possibly win a leadership and then became the leader of a Labor Party with lots of enthusiasm. What's I think can be very interesting the same process that we saw with the Here in the UK is when the establishment if or when the establishment of his own party will accept. What's happening the second big question of course is can actually face often can get beyond that bubble deal that enthusiastic public and he actually win the election. As opposed to the nomination enthusiastic. Bubalo is growing bigger by the day. And if you look at Nevada it has sort of pretty Accurate reflection of the diversity of the US public and just listening to what Sanders was saying. He's he's determined to bring people together regardless of who you are or what you do. It's a very powerful idea. Isn't it yeah? I think he's didn't work. Nevada has shown is that he sang very clearly picked up the biggest share of the Hispanic vote for example which is going to be critical to anybody to win the election. And so when Super Tuesday comes in ten days time off seven days. Eight days time California is there with a very big Hispanic vote. Now if he can get Texas and California I think he becomes unstoppable so it made side. That might Bloomberg's left it too late. It was a suggestion. Actually that it was this time for years ago in Nevada that Hillary Clinton who she started to sort of eclipse Bernie Sanders. But we're in a very different place now because we don't just have two candidates we've got everybody at each other's throats within the Democrats does that also but also the unthinkable so I was living in the states in two thousand nine when the When Obama and Hillary Clinton were facing up against each other and hillary absolutely seemed to be the front runner to be the nominee at that location. And the the kind of subtext narrative. Sometimes even subtext come on. You can't have a black candidate president. Go for the real one which Hillary Clinton you know brings all this belongs to me. That was really she both she and her husband both she and Bill Clinton. What kind of pretty much next this belongs to me and gradually it was like actually no. This is doable. But she hung on for dear life long after it was clear to the country as a whole Obama was going to get the nomination and what was also vivid. Then who knows where this will go but it was striking up until election day. There was huge. Like Kinda America. Really do this really a black president and then of course it did happen. It happened not once but twice whether we get the same thing. Here that again the the the impossibilities happening terms of a quote unquote self declared socialist. That'll be interesting. Which is the more shocking for American cancer or a man who calls himself socialist who calls himself sedatives would be even more amazing in this day and age but zigzag in the boomerang is very instinct. 'cause we had this powerful Obama presidency and then that happened twice and you can certainly see in some elements of Trump's victory a kind of like Whoa. Where did that come from? And you go right to the other end of the spectrum in terms of sanity and and many other things to be on his and we're very interesting if the unpopularity that trump was caused many things gives energy sends it spinning back. The other way is going to be interesting few months very nasty battle doesn't it? I mean we I mean trump will have some pretty easy targets if you get saunders up against him. The socialist the old man the man with the heart condition the angry man not too late not least I mean it himself as trump doesn't have that hard a time picking big holes in Saunders. Does he will certainly all those familiar things you know but above all the man is so left wing you know. And he's from this tiny little corner of America Vermont you know representing a bunch of hippies and old white man one huge advantage that he has which hillary absolutely did not have so she could be portrayed as somehow the establishment of course trump was also establishment but he loved the outsider and she was quote. Unquote establishment. That card is way more difficult to play with sanders looking at the left behind. Voters if you like he can speak more easily than she perhaps. Good and I find that quite astonishing that yes you have the left behind voters but I've been lucky enough. To go to a small talk held by Bernie Sanders and I was sitting about twenty feet from him and it was a literary festival where every other event was dare I say it populated by white couples from North London over sixteen all wearing a blue plastic rain coverings and yet saunders comes in and I don't know where they bust these kids in from but they were teenagers and they will whooping and hollering as if this guy were well. Didn't look or sound like he did. I still struggle to find out what it is about. Saunas that so magical. I think it's different. It's new. It's not establishment. It's it's against the League. It's all of those things and it's it's funny. It's it is also one would say in Britain. The Jeremy Corbyn effect. Where did all those young people come? Who WERE BACKING JEREMY? Corbyn Luke where it got the Labor Party fundamentally nowhere. Its Worst. Defeat him in many years. So that's the danger but is it quite extraordinary that these old men because after trump's and old man sanders is an old man and Mike Bloomberg is an old man. They're all in their late seventies. I mean they make me feel young before moving onto the next subject. Steve. Let's just bring in. This idea of Bloomberg Quentin is just mentioned. You Have Saunders incredible popularity however you have a splintered midfield when it comes to middle ground when it comes to the other candidates buttigieg Biden and Bloomberg. Surely if you brought them together how would that change things I mean? I just wonder whether it's time for a couple to drop out and and for the democratic middle ground to really work out who they want to take. Yeah it's interesting isn't it? I mean that is quite a big F because the so much fighting between them and then it reminds me of everything that Clinton just said about the parallels with Jeremy. Corbyn are definitely Jeremy Corbyn who could hold the Glastonbury festival you can imagine Bernie Sanders during the equivalent in the state but another equivalent in the UK is in a sense. The Boris Johnson leadership where the entire conservative establishment didn't want him and they were desperate to become united against and fundamentally failed because they were pulling in different directions and it feels to me that the Democrats are now in the same place and also it is the cliche but it is true. The nature of these successive rounds in the. Us system mean to certain point just becomes clear that you are. The front runner is really hard to about thirty. I think Mike Bloomberg's left it too late. Because he could end up get the Democratic nomination of course Bloomberg could run as an independent. He's got the money to Quinton. Palin Steve Crozier thank you for the moment we'll be back in just a second but first here's Monocle Car. Lhasa Rabelo with some of the other stories. We've been following today thanks them. North Korea has put hundreds of foreign nationals in quarantine in a bid to stop the corona virus from breaking out state media reports that most of the foreigners are diplomats stationed in the capital. Pyongyang about two hundred foreigners had already been confined to their compounds over the past thirty days Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir. Mohamad has submitted his resignation to the king. The ninety four year olds decision comes amid reports that he may form a new coalition without his resignation successor Anwar Ibrahim Mohammad made headlines in two thousand eighteen when he became the world's oldest prime minister members of the. Uk's Labor Party are starting to vote for Jeremy Corbyn successor. Three candidates are in the running for leader circuit starmer Rebecca Long Bailey. And Listen Andy. The results of the leadership election will be announced at the beginning of April and the monocle. Minute reports. That Adelaide has more cheap street parking than any metropolis Australia. This abundance eats into space available for bike lanes and footpaths and leaves residents more inclined to shirk public transport for their own car for more on the STORY HEAD OVER TO MONACO DOT COM for slash minutes. Back to you Emma. Thank you very much. Indeed Carlotta this is multiples house. You I'm Emma Nelson here with Quentin Peel and Steve Crucial in Germany. This weekend there were more destabilizing developments for the Party of the Chancellor Angela Merkel the CD. You suffered a big defeat in the regional elections in Hamburg. Push to third place behind the CENTRE-LEFT SPA and the Greens. Quinton will begin with you. Can you explain to us what happened? That caused such trouble. It's two different worlds and not sure. We should be worried about hamburger. I think we should in a way be rather reassured by under that sort of a degree of old-fashioned sanity prevailed. I think Stephen I can remember twenty thirty years ago. Even we were talking about red-green coalitions in Hamburg. This Social Democrats sudden you know have got a jolly decent vote thirty nine percent. The Greens have doubled their vote from twelve to twenty four percent but the Christian Democrats have suffered their second worst result ever in Atlanta election with only eleven percent and it shows that they are now really finding this business of a party. That doesn't know how to replace. Angela Merkel that blown wide open by that it is the issue isn't it? I mean up until now Steve. Every time you say the CD you. I've just done it the CD. You Angela. Merkel's Party and it seems impossible to separate the two. This is clearly something that the CD you're having to do. They failed with a K. K. There are all manner of Accusations that they left the opportunity to feel doctor and get a little bit too close and gives them great threats. Is this a moment for the CD whether realizing that they can no longer survive? Or THEY CAN. They're going to have to survive without not. Yeah I mean bear in mind as Quentin says. We were journalists together sometime. Deep in the last century basically and even then there was constant stories about the instability of Germany. I lost count of the number of stores that my editors wanted about all the shows. This show this new vote shows this shows. This and I remember on one occasion. Writing piece commissioned all how dangerous would it be and I said look all the headlines and then ignore them because actually the not not despite. But because of Germany's history built in so many things Malcolm herself has you say is now seen as absolutely the core of stability remember that she with her predecessor Helmut Kohl. He described his desk. Mitchen the little girl and she has actually shown herself to have an incredible struggle. Who knows who will come through on the CD you now. But I agree with Quentin. I think it's super interesting to have twenty something percent from the Greens playing a role as an environmental party but actually as everyone knows Germany. Well it's much more environmentally. It's kind of about a whole set of values and I think that's super interesting as the pushback on the far. Afdc reminds us that there are tools of Germany which is partly West East. But not only you have this issue as a degree in. Don't need you. You must have the values that have as you say been bubbling along inside Germany for as long as I can remember at least but suddenly the news on the planet and time has has forced the Greens actually to to blossom absolutely there. They've that time has come. I think it's very possible that the next German chancellor could actually be agreeing we could have a green black coalition but this is the problem for the Christian Democrat Party there. They are trying to find a successive America. Because as you say come. Combo has thrown in the towel and given up. She was the chosen successor. Now we had four men all from the same lamb to Germany. All from North Rhine-westphalia competing and in many ways. They represent a pretty traditional view. But they have a party that she squeezed from one side by the Greens and probably more dangerously for them. Even squeezed from the other side by the alternative. The alternative the Dewey. Call it far right anyway. Super Nationalist Party Anti Immigrant Party which is picking up lots of support in East Germany. I wonder how you actually do. Get this this instability that everybody always talks about. I wonder what the real moment has come though. Because if you have four men come from north rhine-westphalia there's a tradition there and then you have the Greens and you have a country which absolutely loves its cars. Industry is highly dependent on that kind of stuff. They still have co. Where are we going with this? Dave well yes I mean. Every party has its own small. Little Lem double standards. Whatever you you lied to quite right that we many green voters who also have a very nice car that goes very fast indeed on the autobahn that's undoubtedly true. I mean I do think we all know that with greater tuned bag and many of things clearly environmental things are there. I think that it's interesting. In terms of general stability one thing is that if you look at the voting patent east and West is so divided. I would have guessed thirty years after the war would be down to be so divided but also it's so interesting that a conservative leader. That come camera was forced to resign because her party had slightly got into bed with that far right so frankly it's the kind of thing which parties across Europe a doing the whole time in really worrying way but Germany's still does have those protections. Why no dust far but no further? I hope that will stay. It's not a given but I hope it will stay. We're going to have an extraordinary moment though now when Germany is about to the middle of the air will become the president of the European Union. And the everybody's saying. Oh well maybe they can solve the budget problem. They can solve the brexit problem. This'll obey mackerels Swansong and actually they're going to be looking inwards at their navels. Wondering Oh my God. How are we going to run the country and hold it together politically? I suspect they will somehow by air. Finally the purpose of reporters is you could safely argue to offer an image of the world as it is and to shed light on issues that would otherwise go unseen but several entrance to the twenty twenty Sony World. Photography awards have found themselves either removed from the shortlist while the entries significantly edited. All the candidates had one thing in common the pictures at had been removed. Were of the Hong Kong. Riots Steve Tell us more about your reaction to this story. I mean you're experts in protest and freedom be. It's so dismaying. One of the photographers themselves said it was amazing but not surprising and I think that's exactly right really so a scene governments constantly giving way being frightened. We know that China will put pressure so from when Liu Xiaobo got the Nobel peace prize the precious Portland allegiant government not to do this. That and the other. I was on human rights defenders jury one time where the Chinese put massive pressure on the UN official who is due to present saying if this happens then variously they're always threatening and sometimes government stand up often they don't but now you have this commercial sense that come on if we show that photograph then maybe that'll have implications. I think it's absolutely craven. I think it's deeply shocking. Photographs are so important. Quentin and I are are writers by trade originally. But everybody who has a right to knows that when you're writing the images all of those cliches a picture being worth a thousand words is entirely true. It gives the power like wow. That's what happening. It tells you and the idea that those things should actually be shown I find so troubling arguably the twenty twenty Sony World. Photography awards haven't done haven't really covered themselves in glory and perhaps one would argue it's directors us all a little bit more quickly to the work of the Lakes Day David and the Hong Kong photographer coach. Chongming whose whose images of the Hong Kong rights are breathtakingly powerful. I don't know how much attention I'd have paid to them. Had I not been told that I shouldn't be looking at well. That's very true. I think it may blow up in their face. You know I mean it really is shocking that they could the this the absolute vital importance of images in bringing things. I'm is remain remaining with us for so long but those photographs will remain with US regardless of whether they won a prize or not. They'll be right out there so I think that actually is the reassuring thing accusations as well of Double Standards Steve and we have the Hong Kong protests those images either being severely reduced in number or removed full. Stop until obviously you can google them. But one of the photographers said look we can show per to be. Contrary protests of honk pictures of Hong Kong protests. But it's fine to show pictures of violent protests by Palestinian activists and other places. So where in your world of protest and freedom of speech. Where do people start drawing lines? Is it purely commercial or other other aspects too? I think he's commercial on something like a picture of the really shouldn't be lines and if the finalist and they have as you say they're looking stupid because they've actually retreated on someone they put things back online. Which will prove yourself land so so. They are definitely on the retreat. I think that the the danger is it certain you mentioned Palestinian clearly. There's been many occasions where the pressure from the Israeli authorities have been huge to try and stop certain things happening although not as I'm aware of in the cases of images but these kind of different pressures. They do pop up everywhere. There was one a couple of days ago of this new film. The dissident about the The Saudi journalist Khashoggi. Who was who was tortured to death in the the Saudi consulate notoriously. And apparently I haven't seen the AP very powerful film made by an Oscar winning director that has not managed deflategate rave reviews from those have seen it but has not yet found distributors in key countries. And again you go like really. You're that frightened of a country which is torturing the whole time that you don't even let film be shown that for me. That's the kind of thing that really should not be crossed. Gentlemen are rather pay compliments to your experience in terms of our sort of explain the fact that you have both worked behind the Iron Curtain. You've both worked in the light of the then Soviet Union when thinking back to those times and someone said in twenty twenty. We won't be able to SIP it. Protest because of commercial reasons. What would you do you think of that time Clinton? I think I've been absolutely horrified because the whole point of the time that we were in the Soviet Union in its dying days but was glasnost. Everything was being opened up by the media and by the insistence on bringing out the unsaleable or unthinkable imprint too but also in every way and that was so reassuring but now in Russia today the media is hugely controlled by by Putin and all his acolytes So you have a much more worrying situation so on the one hand you have the wonders of the Internet which allow us to find these things regardless but at the same time the desire to control has grown. I hope that Quentin I didn't either Moscow together. I hope that neither of US self centered but I. There is a significant history. This happening one of the most notorious ones is from Moscow when in the nineteen thirties during the worst crimes of starling including appalling killing of millions in Ukraine? The New York Times correspondent. Then who WANNA put? It surprise his glorious writing which they've now tried to take away but not quite succeeded. He was so eager to stay in Moscow and be able to have access and this that and the other that he fundamentally tried to kill that story and I think that is the new Polish film called Citizen Jones which is on those themes and this is something which is about a Welsh guy who kind of exposed things against that and that I think is a lesson for any journalist or anyone who has power of what can be said or not said the idea that you shut something down because you want the access that is not a good place to go quinton peel. And Steve Crucial. Thank you very much indeed for joining me in the studio in the moment on monocle. Twenty four Israel braces for third general election in a year. You're listening to Monaco's house fee stay tuned and if you've just joined US you've tuned into Monaco's house view I'm Emma Nelson a very warm welcome to the program today. Israel enters. Its final week of campaigning ahead of general election. So what can we expect when the country heads to the polls once again his monocle business editor finisher rainy could this finally be? The one is really set to hold. Its third election in a year week from now. The hope is to finally break the political deadlock that evolved between incumbent Likud Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his rival Blue White Party leader. Benny Ganz yet. Recent polling suggests that neither has managed to swing enough voters though way to radically change the results of previous elections. The country is now entering uncharted territory. Having yet another election six months after the last is unheard of but even more unusual the circumstances surrounding the man at the center of the storm. Netanyahu is facing three separate corruption charges. And we'll have to appear in court in mid March right in the middle of the expected coalition negotiations. He is the first sitting prime minister in Israel's history to be indicted but it has done little to dentists popularity. He's dismissed the whole affair as an attempted coup and in December one party leadership hold by a landslide as part of his bid to clinch fourth. Time his desperately hunting for allies. Most of the usual smaller parties refused to go into government with the prime minister in the middle of criminal proceedings. So He's had to look for the right than even he might normally last week. He announced over six thousand new homes and contested east Jerusalem in a bid to go on a support that's territory that's considered occupied under international law has been in power for over a decade and is clearly bent on staying as long as possible consequences. Damned the upshot. Sadly that Israel is more divided than ever. Thanks to Venetia rainy there. That's all we have time for. Today's Program Barnacles. House fee was produced by coal after Rebelo and research by Charlie German Studio Managers Louis Allen and Christie Evans. Coming up at twenty hundred. London time. A brand new edition of monocle on culture says stick around for that. The models house view is back at the same time. Tomorrow that's eighteen. Hundred London time fanatic from me. Emma Nelson Goodbye. Thank you very much for listening.
A Conversation With Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad of Malaysia
"Okay well good morning and welcome to the Council on Foreign Relations and we are very honored this morning to have with us for conversation with Prime Minister Mahat Hot Air Muhammed of Malaysia show one of the original tigers I'm afraid of the country of Christopher Hill I'm at the University of Denver and I was formerly Assistant Secretary for East Asia Pacific we didn't join the the an ocean at that time we do just East Asia Pacific and I dealt with Malaysia on many occasions but Asia for me was always one of those kind of good news stories I mean you had your share of problems but compared to North Korea we we just loved you what's your reforms have been how the economy's going then because you know in this country we have a bit of a China's and whether you might be prepared to negotiate on behalf of other people because I think you did very well in that so we'll talk about that I'd like to also talk about what's not to love so Mr Prime Minister I thought we'd have kind of a discussion this has been a civil service that's been very effective over the years how's that works so just some atmospherics on becoming prime minister again and what it all looks like I know you're out for from almost fifteen years was everything the same was the office the same we're able to find things in the office we're about an hour I thought maybe we talk about some of the things going on inside Malaysia you've you've been a very busy man for in your case I guess in East Coast Road and and as a former negotiator to I'm kind of interested into in how you negotiated that and okay and then how how has it changed what's new generation of Malaysian civil servants and by the way I think one of your great strengths ages and then how how you see that issue kind of going going forward and then I think we will do questions and apple reducing the voting age to eighteen do you have any plans to bring it to sixteen we can talk about that I think we're going to talk a little about on with another of your twenty meetings today because I know you are you're a very busy man so Mister Prime Minister I Guess Syndrome we're always interested in what's going on with China and maybe you are too and you've had some interaction with the Chinese with their belt and road initiative and uh here's from the audience I I know people will have a variety of questions and and before you know with our one hour is going to be up and you're going to go this issue of the refugees and refugee population I know Malaysia's hosting some one hundred thousand of these eh you were prime minister before now your prime minister again I was kind of tempted to ask you whether you think Joe Biden is is too young to be president here but maybe we could skip that one and go on to the question what's it like to be back in government uh-huh well I never expected to return as prime minister when I did decided to resign I was S A dictator where the whole world but dictatorship do not resign I was a windy dictate the will resign any patient over many way but I thought that we need younger people to take over from me so to primarily well it's not being very well and I competed against him although he was my no meaning and then of Malaysia I expected him to do as well as his father but unfortunately he was worse than that that I would put in place a person who has he's a son of over the losses prime minister the second permits is sexy that'd be but after a short while the people were not happy with them they keep on coming to see me to ask me to do something Brandis so again lots of people looking to see me they I suppose look upon me as a kind of servicemen and they asked me to do something again I tried to advice it didn't work and finally had to resign from the I tried to advise he didn't work and then I find it they've the premise immediately after me body which governs country so forming a coalition be so position involves some myself giving we saw form another party of my own and then decided we position former coalition saloon nobody can can defeat the the government had been in place for see photo ever since independence very powerful I'm on some of my previous ideas and I will with them and for some reason decided that I should be dead leader and also strange recent they they used to call me deep did all kinds of nasty names which means that we have less money for development less money for supporting the people would please everything work where but now the whole machinery of government has been well undermine and the government on fiscal accounts in inheriting far more debt both government data and I think some foreign debt as well but ninety four now and he stopped working the hours a day yes it's maybe not good for you but I need to accomplish things working eighteen hours a day to make the three years otherwise I would take six years or something and quite a lot of money in the case of East Railway we save over twenty billion ringgit in terms of contract twenty billion on the they would be one we didn't expect to win we won and now we have of trying to unranked a lot of road project or the road contract so when you came in where the Chinese kind of expecting your phone call was that it's very tough now I have to eighteen hours a D. because I didn't have my time I promise I would step down before the next election we're all I mean what is the what's the economy looking like I mean give America for example I think we're your number one investor right now or soon to be let's see we did was we try to reduce the debt by canceling or reducing the scope of some of the projects that will ask to see cost of living is rather new so we have to repay the loans and that is tough a job because mass much of the unwell dump much of portion of the revenue of government issues to speed the loan you gotta normal when Hayes who because I know I'm video old man out of that did you initiate contact with with Xi Jinping and tell them we love no no I I wonder if you could explain to us how that worked the Chinese during your campaign you signal that you were not happy with the East Coast yeah are you horseback riding or doing something else went through to host again so we know about some of the fiscal accounts the problems you had on I depended upon some people who are very cruise them familiar with them and he would meet them no I'm kidding so you kind of raise it as a mutual problem we have a problem here yeah we issue then we have seen this financing was in the bed seat because the previous government watered more than one trillion blistering it now when listen we get the coalition and the kid did for for primary this she should the coalition should win and somehow stand you took about one third of the cost off of the of the project and we're the Chinese very quickly willing to do that wrong he's done by the previous government by comparison with my first term as prime minister That was nothing I mean everything was and the terms of the contracts and all that got to be renegotiated because normally Chinese companies tend to bring the Eh the Disney so those were not terms of endearment older by the decided that I should leave the would be very nice to resign his I make visit I don't risk controversial issues but you put tariffs on them a good friends yeah they're good trading partner but this particular thing needs to be attended to reduce in school and looted ports in Sri Lanka you no questions about the Sri Lanka even need those things and then the Chinese have somehow claim that if the whole time I wonder more broadly because you have so much experience dealing with the Chinese this belt and road initiative which is in had already take place taken place so you didn't want to be the great dealmaker you wanted to make sure it happened but maybe you didn't need to to be there aw maybe partly it was to help you with your East Coast Road but was there something more does it have kind of notion that China has project you're seeing a lot of Chinese construction workers out there working on this initially no no no not now none I'm right to be there or is it is it strategic is it a function of excessive demand I mean excessive supply and ministry's Whoa what's the motivation because you have such a better view of it than some of us do we have forced to because we just could I mean was it sounds like it went very easily in which case I'm wondering who negotiated before that they were willing quickly to take one third off the in cost because we don't have the money we told them we don't have the money we kind of fought this and I think they will in the end quite sympathetic and workers there were materials and all that for any in any way that they do so even if you go out on the East Coast to see this the association ASEAN and you've seen ASEAN in its infancy you've seen it now I wonder if you could give us a kind of this very expensive relying so we whether we like it or not we had to go to the Chinese and appealed to them point out if you give the candidate so I mean ever had the most three years perhaps in three years they're not going to get paid they have to kind of take over these facilities they have a right to use them I wonder can you speak to the Chinese motivation can switch a little to the focus of you know for decades South East Asia is tried to act more closely together through of course negotiate and he went to China met the leaders of course he was he has to explain the WHO was the development developed the develop I I suppose if she's Lanka would try newish it they might be able to get entailed and look we we just GonNa this I say so by the time you visited with the Chinese a lot of this output a difficult conversation that you know we are good trading partners and Well I in the end I think they will preceded the best we can report card how is Ozzie and taking on big issues are they managing things I mean after all if you put all those Southeast Asian countries together he's to somewhat reduces school and to stay because that was the price of of staying in Yeah I wonder they were talking five hundred million people were talking a very serious Part of the Asian GDP do you see Osceola the bill will head to do something buddy although we are behind the Philippine Brett We are not really strong enough to tell being that can tell China look China we love you we welcome you but we need to have a kind of sense of mutual respect on these issues all we have listen contact is also but these fifty I see that as one of the nation's the but altogether as I something out of it I don't know that is their policy their approved our air pushes to save our finances we cannot afford to be for yeah so we had to do something about it I don't know but Sri Lanka ideas accepted the Chinese proposal the Chinese take over AH debate pitfall so billion dollars and this was the Chinese contract and he's going to it so it has to make some noise some protests for example the Chinese Occupied Commodity Reef and Compete Reef is belong to the Philippines Zang me though I am I said would not want to raise this issue men I go there and he was able to proceed clean but they are not at the moment very aggressive they would liked to have southeast Asia vide- sympathy for John Bill things where there was really ocean but you're suggesting that this is more of their effort to say this is ours but we will not act on we all realize that we had to deal jointly because they would have given us more strength but of course threats Arkansas has been now they have the capability militarily to act on things that they may have claimed one hundred years ago but never had any ambitions to do something so you're seeing it more on that traditional side or are you worried about what but they have not tried to evict us in so I think whereas the Chinese make be rough on on us yeah very good before we get onto the more regional issues especially the question of refugees Chinese no you shouldn't do this kind of thing is against international law or whatever we also have have clean community of palm oil plantations and then suddenly you're greeted by this beautiful capital and all the administrators have there names on there which I was your idea of accountability if I and but I guess the question I have is isn't it a little isolated one island almost in the middle of the South China Sea we have a bill Ron we there for planes so it's important to create something something that in the cream but they're not yet a deceased where they would deal with each country separately when when a county become threatened us you know it's one thing to create facts on the ground but they were actually creating the ground by putting dirt on atolls and beginning to as I just have one more question about your domestic situation for example you created an administrative capital outside I mean this government understand what's going on in the real world is a real world understand what's going on in government how is that because it was quite a quite a let's subsidies each as the testing ground for whatever they want well this is a somewhat brighter picture than we see in the US because we see a lot of aggressive the Chinese have not disturb us if we occupy this the Vietnamese occupied Cayman Island we built in Lindy. Al It's actually I mean for those of you haven't been to Malaysia you get off the airplane and you go through what is seems like mm-hmm where other people are kind of running their businesses etcetera and does it how does it work between government and commercial for reaching experiment on your part whether the site chosen these not too far from Kuala Lumpur is within five kilometres from Kuala Lumpur and also it is tinted with this from the airport so is very nice to have and mellow worried about with with their capacities military spicy having a meet that what we did was to create officiant for a capital we have practically all the ministries there accepting one to which they shouldn't we bought one of the big plantation is called Great Wall because after the war some British entrepreneurs colonial period the bitches became hits of all departments listens as in a number two man like Brazil Brazil when hundreds of miles into the forest and it's difficult lots of the gunman miniseries are scattered all over and before we have this telephone that you can bad but the Finns went to Kamala reef occupied the voice wrote while and then they evacuated escape calm cocoa communicate is Lee had to travel from office to office and this takes a long time so we decided that we should not a capital and the moment we became independent number to become some one so there was no interruption day was a smooth flow transition six we be built islands and be okay by these sandbox and all that and build it up in the islands vendors if you go to war to get independence the warriors the people who made sacrifices and all that see thing by then administrative capital bring all the ministries to the place make it easy for people to access this place and they don't have to other people want to do the same but the trick is not the move too far away fortunately as you said we have a lot of somewhat plan from British rule to Bliss Andrew and system remains the same practically all that were introduced by the British was computer parts computers were talking oil and gas and we're talking pommel that's always kind of the aw go through traffic dance and the like and it has worked because it's very close to Singapore due to call its is quiet you used to be pummeled plantation we bought it and we build the capital there and the town of calling employees this simply get promoted and didn't know how outplayed gave bill when you look at the economy we're talking laser was the capacity of your civil service and can we give the British little credit for that or or not yes hey we'll see doing the see the thing you hear about in Malaysia does the government play a role in saying we need to do something else here how does how does the when Acre so that so much of a well employment at the same time because we have no knowledge that I am planners do they if they don't plan do they do planning I guess we do a lot of planning we have five year plans they are entitled to rule the country but their skills in warfare but non skews shows here kiss the administrator yeah objective but what happened of course is that when be became independent we have a lot of unemployment so that they would easiest unnamed association so there was quickness most through it's quite different from having to go to war to get in the NIA blend the plans we always plan for the future because we want people to be focused on what needs to be done in order to achieve depending so although he was twenty five kilometers away now it is getting very reminded the faintly means that pulling boys overcrowded. We decided that it's better to industrial because one industry can occupy Preteen of course we had to expand because the country has grown by more people and all that expensive but the expense uh organization was appointed hit for the Commonwealth on got the land from the government and they call it wrong bizarre which is a great well we have a quiet he's not the beat base being a country depending upon resources depending on rubber palm oil and tin became a country that is also able to waiters who continue to be proud of being called dictators and we're seeing some of that and obscene as well Sir there is an issue in the world now in terms of nationalism and in terms of the emergence of Very strong deal with visas people yeah I say and so just one other point about because I just one of the things that to me was just fascinated me when you sit with your colleagues hocine I mean is there a quality to the discussion where there's an effort to try to say let's work together really many of us have concerns about developments in the Philippines but not only there I mean there are a number of issues and he's a beast on people who are trained in the British system at one time or the heat of other on things or is there more sort of nationalist bent do people understand I mean I don't know I don't mean to pick on the President of the Philippines Asia and continues to be one of the real success stories in in Asia I would like to my name is I just have one more and it's a bigger question about you know we started talking about obscene but it was more about China but let me ask you but manufacturing we decided to invite foreigners to come into the country to start up plans there and employ three Oh are you able to with your experience try to talk about to these other leaders who may have a lot less experienced in terms of the need for regional very close together but enemy they are very tolerant of foreigners coming to leave the country so at the time when we came independent forty percent of the popular Asian will actually descendants of immigrants so we're used to work leaving with people of other races yes we are nationalists but we are also tolerant of people will come to settle in Malaysia and we give them citizenship we accepted we'll do produce manufactured goods and for the local market and service for example we only have a couple of minutes before we go to audience is but does he understand some of the historical antecedents that have gone into building what has been pretty successful regional organization I mean so Matica accept so many immigrants here they contributed towards the prosperity the Saturday industries and today we are less identified by our reason but more as a nation we are militiaman's but so because of this willingness to work with different races the country has posted a second of course many insists that they are Chinese relations Indian Malaysians will need the militia lease because they were the indigenous people the people and or people of for a time that saw the unemployment problem at same time from to do was to clear the forest and plan robberies or someone met seal there were a lot of unemployment awesome and in the first place list is the Metro Ponti Racial Anti British period the broad in Chinese broaden Indians the by the indigenous people accepted these people and they have no problem living together non actually and echo three acres of land and give him permanent to five hundred people in the Amway you had one person or two person looking at cheap former listen redid the one US dollar by intern so participatory wondering it all in militia because and we have even a small hotel but so far the Chinese have not diesel bus they came to the Swan Island peace with each other makes the country stable and peaceful and investors like to come to that and that's how we grew the same thing happened in Malaysia so we were able to grow much faster because the ability to live together the well together like Turkey Pakistan Malaysia Indonesia this countries are relatively stable you to see whether there can be some effort on some of these very critical issues facing the Muslim world and this would be a good opportunity to founding the Koran I think the Muslims will prosper they will leave epilepsy with other people because in the Koran is his a partner with some other oversee countries to address issues which are currently even more urgent facing the opposite said the owner that through your religion to us our religion and that God has created people of different kind different races so that the problem which Chris referred to which really if if the country's presented a little bit more of a carefully crafted frigid campaign kkob initiative welcome to Mahathir to our lovely town and country pity assessor refuse one community when part one body rather if one part of it is in pain the whole is in pain and if I ask you would you be willing to aw and they understand what is happening what is happening is that most Muslims have forsaken region they don't could perhaps turn the needle more positive on these issues so of question about Malaysia's preparedness to work with key oh I see countries ORC or identify strategic initiative to partner with a few key or I see countries to address the issues that are facing the Muslim world today brothers brothers looming kill each other that's what we did disobeyed the Koran and also mm-hmm Islam forbids killing you can't kill even non-muslim a kill a Muslim your place in Hell is reserved for you that we know each other that is what the Koran says by they don't care about that the fight against people simply because these people are not Muslims uh-huh several entreaties to to leverage into champion militias sterling reputation as a moderate Muslim majority country given now even the the problems that Muslims are facing in China in Kashmir just yesterday schiffer how CNN was talking about the Rohingya about the Romans because I mentioned that and we've never gotten to to get to it so I think that he's this opportunity for some of the country they are bad be defined with people who take us this weather Ramsey's I find that the Koran is written in Arabic follow the religion at all yes the parade the fast gave Stu People perform the hush but beyond that but you don't care you're being deceased all that is forbidden by Islam if you go back to the teachings of Islam to death everything is already recorded and what you need to do at any time is only given John Wesley all tees of the Koran di Rita is he the one or the first thing that he said in the Koran did all Muslims in the Koran but we ignore all that and then this why I read the Koran in languages which I understand read they have this feeling about getting rid of the wrong ears this again is a British for they were different it's not going to resolve the problem the thing is that near my must receive then back in kind state which has always been understand where the guy you see the guide guidance from provided by the unease the Muslim way of life from we give them some help we all prayed some fear hospitals in in Bangladesh et Cetera but and to the beginnings of the word of God is in the Koran but in the case of Myanmar the moment they became independent they expelled the Indians because the Indians control the economy they were in and treat them in that we not all and as a result of course they have to migrate to Bangladesh and some Kingdom Leisure people in a different country but they combine all the different tribes in that area and call it Burma and have made together but then they shouldn't be Roy they've been there a long time but he's not right for me and my to expel them Mellitus I read it in English I understand the Koran and understanding the Koran made me realize that most Muslims only the economy and that was what you did in other words yeah week we detain them but then of course Suddenly I taught that he she would be sympathetic to US Rohingyas I wrote her a letter asking her to do something about it I got no reply was very sympathetic was predicament I campaigned for her release and like everybody else and back yeah we we tried to do that because a lot of people would not change they like to follow their leaders you know somebody there were handgun issue I mean have you talked to some suci about these kinds of issues how's that gone retail business they were in all kinds of business they were expelled which resulted in the country not being able to grow as and the police were I say Okay and you've had this conversation with Aung San Suu Cheek Not Angel Most of us do on read Arabic do understand that so you can call the Koran a guide when you can understand it you must for so-called reeducation and among other things oppressing them to renounce Islam in favor of the Communist Party and there's been wide outcry against position but idea right to her when these things happen I used to write to her when she was under house arrest earlier question and focus on the weaker Muslims of Xinjiang and it's widely known that China has detained roughly one million weaker and other Turkic Muslims Malaysia unlike many other members of the organization is on the cooperation refused to sign that letter and so militias really maintained a sort of studied at least need to kill fellow Muslim and they do as against just if we can if I could just ask you to address we are concerned of course about this huge number of Wego Muslims are being detained under eighteen million people into a single country where religion go and start a ruling they won the easy way out they combine all the reasons metrology with respect us and I'm wondering what pressure you have been under from the Chinese to embrace their against the weaker and and second what disability is there for Malaysian speak out publicly against what's going on there well the is that some of the Eagles Sir than to you Hello Mister Prime Minister I'm Ken Roth from Human Rights Watch I wanted to follow up in the Spam My name's Lucy Lucy Commissar I'm a journalist when not Anwar Ibrahim was at the council some money we need a lot of places so holy areas I suppose would have been a cordon of was in some way so that the educated and all that but we have we done in other places maybe they'll be well worth these happening but SOFA I wanted to be independent so they did take up arms and did something violent against I million people can very well rice or take up arms against government so we ago he said that he had changed his views on the issue of affirmative action which had been just for the Malays and created a lot of hostility is that I'm in Geneva a couple of months ago about twenty five governments denounced this answer. China orchestrated a counter statement saying they're wonderful for the Muslims and well the grid mostly but they're not doing the things that this thought lies so this is what we need to do to return likely to be punished for what they've done so we allowed them to escape to other countries this why it'd be about at the same time onto the ringers I met her at several international meeting but I didn't bother to restore okay the Chinese have been trained to convince us that they are not that violent against the eagles but more of a much more a business oriented Chinese Chinese have done extremely well in Asia even if you see that between rich and poor but the fact is that the poor majority of the out Malaysia affirmative action which has a much nicer name and I forget the Malaysia name for the idea that we cannot avoid noticing that most of the poor people are the indigenous people they are very poor compared to the mice with a Chinese and Indian ethnic groups he now feels that affirmative action should be for poor people what is the situation of affirmative action months ago and indicated he thought it ought to be less of a of an ethnic issue and more of an issue of socioeconomic us you take up arms against the government of course they are going to do war harass you win punishable and these government and the government of course mounted operation to arrest these people detained these people some of these people randomly proficient for example only two percent of the doctors were malicious at one time now forty percent they had the capability but they had to give and what is your view now and do you agree that it should be not based on the ethnicity of the person that should be based on their economic situation so question about families to the same level as as the Chinese so we had the F. Action a lot of people see feel it didn't feel yeah we have very considerable poor people we want to help them all without re got to their race or religion but at the same time send our people to go there my when you go there the Chinese should that these were people are very nice they're very happy as they are eating is good to be you should help I'm sorry future okay and and then Anwar that Anwar was here the given the opportunity and we are doing the same for business and in other fields as well and I think we have reduced poverty that is why we need to have affirmative action steel but this time will be more careful because in the past own little on sheaves expended she supported what was being some found a way to Malaysia and we decided that sending them back China would not be a good thing because at the same time if you seem to be ignoring the race element you will never win the election I used to give a contract sue people who couldn't do anything they couldn't carry out the container and they used to sell the country the debate is because Roy here's our Muslim and I can understand because normally booties very tolerant because they've formed a beat majority of the voters to get them to support you you must show that you are concerned about that outside of the room here lady back here if hi thank you so much I'm a kilo with the global justice center a
Tuesday 20 November
"You're listening to the Monaco daily and first broadcast on the twentieth of November two thousand eighteen on monocle twenty four and Monaco daily in association with UBS. Live from Madeira house in London. This is the monocle daily Marcus hippie coming up aid in Yemen. Saudi Arabia and the UAE have pledged five hundred million dollars. But so we will be enough to make a difference to the world's worst humanitarian disaster. Ozora had migration should not be governed by an international body unaccountable to our own citizens. The no rec- shoes to the president's rewrite immigration laws against the wishes of congress. That is going to charge who has struck down an older by Donald Trump. We'll also find out why Macedonia's former prime minister phoned home in Hungary, and I helped kill local journalism now Facebook wants to fund its future, and why is a friend of the Russian president spending beak on a tiny island valley's head on the monocle daily flight from London. Even starting now. Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates have blitzed five hundred million US dollars in aid to assist. Millions of Yemenis at risk of starvation. Both Saudi Arabia and the UAE are leading SUNY coalition which began on air campaign against the who bills in Yemen in two thousand fifteen the UN considers Yemen, the world's worst humanitarian crisis. Joining me on the line is Craig a journalist who has lived and worked in Yemen for a number of years. Welcome to the program. So I what do you think has been going on behind the scenes what's has led into Saudi Arabia and the UI offering this aid? He the first time that they'd done this over the course of the conflict. They have. Contributed aids towards Yemen. There's much debate about whether some of that has actually materialized because it's often put three there overnight. Aid organizations, but the timing of it now is likely coincides with what was happening earlier this week with the UN Security Council, and you resolution had been drafted by UK. And as part of that they called for increased funding in that draft resolution now there are many elements of that resolution that members of the coalition in Saudi Arabia in particular, not very happy with actual. But it does seem that this reaction. Of providing all Cetinje putting forward the talk of funding for humanitarian aid in Yemen coincides with that. But it also coincides with. Renewal of fighting in data on the Red Sea coast whether had been at least of pause in the fighting the last couple of days in the run-up to this frog for resolution being bought the Security Council, but it seems quite clear in the moment that the coalition members of the coalition that got to do that best to block the vote on that resolution when it does come up. Exactly, we're looking at this. This aid does being offered no by Saudi Arabia and the U a housing east this often. Well, I mean, it's it, obviously if you know five hundred million dollars is a lot of money two hundred and fifty from Saudi Arabia in the UA. It's still very much a drop in the ocean. I certainly what the UN agencies need to provide humanitarian aid now to twenty two million people in Yemen. And the, you know. Providing foods assistance and humanitarian aid to eight million people trying to double that that that figure, but the reason loss of debate amongst the she sent me that I've spoken to on the ground of how particularly the aid from Saudi Arabia and the UA materializes in Yemen. Indeed deducts tried to speak to Saudi Arabia's own aid agency program, or when I was in Yemen, and and they refuse to speak to me, but it's very hard to tell on the ground. How money is used on? What uses is being put to because there isn't always care evidence of its materializing as a T people in Yemen. When you will that similarly the Saudis have also given boss money to the central Bank of billion dollars worth of funding to Yemen central Bank was reported earlier this year. But again this similarly debate about whether that one billion dollars actually materialized and because all the lack of transparency. It's it's quite unclear sometimes whether these money Matt money that are often talked about do actually end up being given all used in the in the manner that they've been stated act in the first place. The situation is very serious in them in Yemen. Mentioned the UN considers that this is the world's worst humanitarian crisis. What is the latest regarding the situation on the ground? What's been happening today, for example, while the has been renewed fighting in data on the western Red Sea coast, and that's very crucial because had Dade it is the port, which is the main lifeline for the most densely populated area of Yemen in the northwest, which is still under the control of the hippies. And if that port is shut down because of the fighting, which is creeping slowly, but surely towards towards the port, it's only a few miles away. Now, if that poll to shutdown that will put out of action on any commercial imports of food into the country, but also aid supplies the UN agencies WFP the wealth program, they use that to bring in vast amounts of food into the country at the moment when as you mentioned you've got many millions of Yemenis face. Famine fourteen million now on the brink of famine the UN is warning that this could possibly be the worst famine seen in one hundred years if it does happen and the conflict continues on the have been some hope in the last few days of of sustained Posterity's or at least some informal downturn. In the volatile in the ground and things had eased in the forty eight hours before the UN Security Council resolution trophic solution was put forward yesterday. I'm fortunately now, the violence regime that has been an uptick in fighting and increased Asterix again today on the ground in today too. So that's obviously very concerning. Absolutely the Sony. Let's go nation has been receiving a lot of criticism for its brutal air campaign. How much support does for example, Saudi Arabia have steel outside of the media's region while I think that's changed a lot in the last month because of the commit killing the Saudi journalist Malcolm show in Saudi consulate in. Estan bowl. This is really changed. The environment for Saudi Arabia now and has really focused international. Attention all the war in Yemen. And this is what has built this pressure. Now the pressure that the US has been has been bringing the ks been bringing on Saturday Arabia this draw resolution. It looked board yesterday would probably never have happened in two months ago. But the Kurds of what's happened with Jamaica Shoghi in and the attention. This is Paul some Saudi Arabia. It is very much meant that. The international community has has full Tabet on Saudi Arabia, which they haven't done the last three and a half years the conflict in Yemen in this way. And so, of course, the wrist some hope that this may then result in at least assess station of hostilities, this not a full full blown political resolution to the conflict, but it may at least help ease the situation, even if it is temporarily for the civilians on the ground looking at some other reasons developments Yemen's Soderbergh's government has also. Firmed? It's will participate in the UN sponsored peace talks in Sweden that I'll due to take place soon. Housing -nificant is this it is significant, and it's also significant that the Haiti's have been making positive indications as well. The last attempt talks by the UN special envoy to Yemen loss in griffis in September failed because he didn't even make it to Geneva. Whether talks are supposed to happen. This time they have been making more tedious statements about these talks this time around not in graduate special envoy has even said he would get on the plane with east to get them to Sweden if that's what it took. So the indications are goods, but in the last twenty four hours, maybe not as good as they were beforehand because of the coalition's reaction to this UN Security Council resolution that who sees one that political leaders had announced that they will prepare to stop the ballistic missile attacks into Saudi Arabia, which were then would or should have led. Then asteroids being stopped by the side. Because that is the timeframe that's being looked at. But unfortunately, the uptick in violence in the last twenty four hours this just a hope that that's not going to scupper attempts by the UN special envoy to hold these peace talks in Sweden in the coming weeks. Spoil him you've been following the situation for years. What do you think it would take to resolve this conflicts? Where is the key to that? While while that conversation would probably take a couple of hours to get to the Boston. The Boston lot rarely but it needs to be. An inclusive process, really. And now, the trouble is in Yemen. At the moment, you have multiple statelets. If you like he don't have a single functioning states, and as a result of that resolves the conflict, you've got multiple factions fighting for different reasons on the ground to have different political goals, and who all want to want to say, and what Yemen will look like after this conflict has over. You've got groups like the southern successionist movement who've been calling for independence autonomy now since two thousand seven, but now they're heavily armed group who've been fighting for three and a half years. I'm so these are the kind of people that need to be involved in the political process because all Yemenis wants to know not only wanted peace gonna come. But what is Yemen get looked like after that? And that still has to be resolved. Thank you very much for joining us. You're listening to the Monaco daily monocle twenty four. Judge in the United States struck down an order by President Donald Trump to deny asylum to those who cross the nation sa- southern Borderie legally US District Judge John Tikos it regardless of the scope of the president's authority. He may not rewrote the immigration laws to impose a condition that congress has forbidden joining us now from the US motorcycles assertion Eisenberg, sir, Zoe I recap beats what did the president's or to aim to achieve. So he aimed to. Primarily restrict the situations in which. Foreigners could apply for asylum at the moment any. Four national who finds her way to into the US or to a US border can apply for for asylum, and then is guaranteed a hearing on their application, and if they meet the standards for for being a refugee they can be granted asylum in the United States Trump last week week and a half ago. Impose an executive order that would have a primarily restricted asylum. Applicants to those who come to a designated port of entry, which is the term. The US uses not just for nautical ports, but for any sort of land-based, border installation. And thus anybody who has found either in the inland of the United States or attempting to cross at S or non sanctioned border location would. Be denied the ability to apply for them, the number of asylum cases, Crohn's in the US has remained relatively steady over the post, dick. Why is this such topic now? Well, a lot of it is because from wants to make 'immigration of hot topic. I mean, this has been. Something that we sort of. During his campaign and have seen during almost two years of his administration that he often seems to manufacture crises or elevate sort of routine issues of immigration into. These sort of crisis moments that allow him to take extreme measures. And so we we saw this early in his administration when he tried to impose a ban on travelers from seven. Majority Muslim countries. We saw this just recently when he sent active duty military troops to the border in anticipation of a caravan of migrants coming up primarily from Honduras through Mexico. All of these are things that I think sort of independent observers say are kind of routine issues that a fairly well developed American immigration and border control apparatus is used to dealing with. And yet Trump has at each moment. Basically, either stated or inferred that the existing laws that congress passed are sort of insufficient to this this moment of crisis and that he needs to go. He needs to go farther. What does the US do strict church tone Joan Tikos order mean for Trump's migration policies now? It's a temporary order, and our and primarily this has been judged sort of on procedural grounds that that because Trump appears to have acted. Beyond the the thority granted the executive contrary to in an area where we're congress has already laid down its own rules for asylum seekers they'd been on the books for decades. It it halted implementation of the order. And so we're we're we're we're the status quo was two weeks ago. And we should note that the that the circuit in which. The regional circuit in which this decision was made as one of the most liberal in the country. And so this has been a court that has been sort of repeatedly thorn in the side of of Trump, particularly as immigration and border issues. I think we can expect the the ministration will appeal this and eventually we'll get a decision a little closer to the constitutional merits of the case, which you know, sort of gets to. A big question that hovered over the the Muslim ban case where eventually the supreme court ruled. In Trump's favor on a revised version of that order in the big legal question here is that the constitution affords a lot of liberty to the chief executive when matters of national security are at stake, and the the onus will be on the Trump Justice department to demonstrate that the circumstances here rice the level of national security crisis and not not just Trump trying sort of unilaterally to rewrite immigration laws that he doesn't like at the same time. Do see these odorous as an example once again, that's the US political system worked. So the Donald Trump conce gets exactly everything done the way he wants to. Yeah. I mean, I think that by and large. I think we could put aside that sort of question of whether the the checks on on alleged criminal behavior of of the president and his family is associates are working. But I think on this sort of question of judicial review we've seen that the instant the legal institutions of the United States have been have been pretty strong and have vetted. The Trump administration on a number of instances where they seem to go above and beyond the the thirties. Due to him. If this comes the supreme court, we should keep in mind that. It'll be a supreme court. We're out of the nine members to more than than were there a year and a half ago or people who are appointed by Donald Trump, including Brett cavenaugh and. So even though we have an independent judiciary. At the highest court in the land. It'll it'll have far more of us are imprinted people who who have been vetted by Trump. If he's a litigant before them, just pointedly. What do you reckon wars impacts real the judge's decision? Having the coming days if you look at what's happening at the US, Mexico Bodo. As a practical level will back to where we always were which is that people who want to seek asylum in the United States have a very high burden of proof that that there were, you know, political or safety circuit unique political or safety circumstances that make living freely in their in their home country and possible American asylum courts are not easy to get past. It's been a bit of a myth that that the Trump administration and some of its friends and conservative media propagated that when you get the United States asylum is easily granted. But so we're back to where we were which is that. People will end up going through a legal process to have to demonstrate that they earn titled to asylum under American laws. They just won't be. Sort of instinctively automatically rejected which is sort of what the Trump administration wanted to happen with most asylum-seekers a monocle Washington correspondents' is in Brookville. Thank you for joining us on the one go daily, it is as post the L were up next. We'll find out. Why must donates former prime minister as phones a new home in Hungary? Stay tuned. UBS has one nine hundred investment analysts from over one hundred different countries. Use of a nine hundred of the shop is Mullings on freshest thing in the world of finance today. No one this mall. No one knows small and find out how we can help you contact us at UBS dot com. You only sending to the Monaco daily on monocle twenty four Marcus. Marcus Fulmer, Macedonian, prime minister, Nikola, Gruevski assists. He just being granted political asylum in Hungary, he fled abroad already earlier after having been sentenced to two years in prison on corruption related charges in his home country. Joining me for more calls bogans, correspondent guide Delauney guy. Welcome to the program. Could you start by explaining what kind of trouble ribs ski goes himself in in Macedonia? Well, he was in power for about two decade in Macedonia during which time his his rule, and I think we can call it rural. Really, even though he was the head of government became increasingly authoritarian and corrupt and it was no surprise when he and his were finally forced from power. The consequences to be paid a special prosecution had been investigating his dealings. This was in port and down to some wha taps which were leaked to the position which them then made available to the special prosecution, but an essence the the nation's against Moses he was corrupt. He was profiting personally in a way, which he shouldn't have done all sorts of shenanigans going on, and he will be facing all sorts of charges. One of which he has already been convicted on this is going back to me. And this was relating to the purchase of an official calm, and it was found that Mr. Gruevski had illegally induced people to buy a Mercedes Benz with more than half a million euros, which he then also new used for fischel GT, but has his personal pleasure and full the she was sentenced to two years in prison. He lost the appeals against this. He was meant to surrender himself into custody. Last week. He didn't he did what we would. Call in Liverpool AFL it and this flit turned out to be him nipping across the bowl to to Albanian and then being driven in various diplomatic calls across several bulldoze into Hungary at which point he's being claiming political asylum. It's those like ribs ski us. Good friends who have helped him do what he has now. So first of all why is hunger decided to granting political asylum victim Audubon has been putting his older in in various places across the region. And it's fair to say he's not being putting his all in on the side of the angels. So for example, in Slovenia during the election campaign earlier this year, he was supporting Janas Yansha. Who's a veteran politician here who this year had decided that the best bet for him to try to get elected which to adopt hauled line anti migrant stance. And Mr. Audubon, while we all know, his stunts on those sort of things was making personal appearances with Mr.. Ship. It didn't get misty unsure elected didn't even increase his share of the vote from what he usually gets. But is an indication of what Mr. Audubon has been trying to do is being trying to build allies across the region trying to gain influence across the region on he was again, supporting Mr. Gruevski over the is in Macedonia, maybe solo some sort of kindred spirit, quite what he's got to gain. If he has indeed grunted the Hungarian system because we must remember this is democracy. This is an eve country the role recyling processes through which it must go. If Hungary has decided to grant asylum to Mr. Gruevski who is now in in Macedonia seen very much pulled to the problem and no power to the solution, quote, hungry gained from this amount of conjecture exactly how close do think relations between or but on grips give being then. Well. Well, as I said, they shed platforms, and it's one of these things have you look at graft skis political party, it's a member of the grouping in European parliament. I if it were in the Arabian Poelman, which calls it, isn't because method idea isn't isn't a member of the Arabian union, but he has fed degree of political affinity, shall we say with Mr. Gruevski and also the way in which Mr. Gruevski went about things miss Gretzky was a building up this myth of Macedonia as the cradle of civilization. A cultural appropriation of Greek myths legends heroes someone and so forth, antagonizing neighbors, and generally the kind of nationalism which isn't won't one really wants to see in the western Balkans where we have a history of nationalism going wrong. But all of this really was common ground with Mr. Audubon. And when people were wondering when Mr. Gruevski disappeared to Hungary was very high on the list of places where people thought he'd he'd disappeared too. And that is indeed why he popped up. What you wreck? This is going to me. And when it comes to say, how Brussels is viewing Hungary. Now, how Macedonia who spewing Budapest? Well is already being Cullman from gavea host that who said on Twitter. No surprise Audubon is helping full Macedonian PM Gretzky convicted for corruption to escape Justice promoting rule of law violations country to Bulkin countries integration commitments could jeopardize that. You'll repeat in future we call and let it happen. We've so that's from gave we've also had some more official comments from the European Union as well saying that any Asanin process in Hungary, fullness to graft sqi must be a judicial process. I must not be politicized. So these warning shots have being going out to cross the bows of Budapest, whether the effects a change. In course, of course, is another question entirely. Exactly. Just finally, what do you recognise go into happening? Corrupts eventually do think that it was Jones that he may have to go back to his home country and face Justice them, well, perhaps, but there's also theory that people are quite blunt to see the back of him in Macedonia, the TV stuck around. He could be a Malta. He could be a focal point for nationalist. And the his his polity vulnerable dependent in Macedonia old of this might have been very unconvenient to the government of Macedonia as the try to push full with this name change and their accession to NATO and the European Union Sunia theory of cool stuff saying that applying for his extradition on that application will be going through any day now. But the certainly good reasons why people might say, well, he's well out of it Monaco is going to be there. Thank you very much for joining us. Here are some of the other stories we're following today. Does this? If people have been killed in a suicide bomb attack in the gun companies. So couple the Cup into religious clerics met to Mark the birthday of the prophet. Muhammad. It is one of the deadliest attacks in Kabul in recent months no-one hosts, it may see this responsibility for the blast missing shows have slumped following the arrest of the groups, Jim and cuddle Schoon. He's accused stuff unto reposing, easy and come over five years unto using company sets postal purposes Goan who heads in alliance between MISA Mitsubishi and to Renault you'd be removed from his powerful rose. And finally Democrats say Donald Trump stole to should be investigated over claims that she repeatedly use it used a personal Email cones full governments baseness reports suggest this Ivanka Trump who's a senior White House adviser used to a personal cones up two hundred times. To kentucky's. Other members of the administration is you only sending to the multiple daily on monocle twenty four. Facebook is giving four and a half million pounds to local newspaper groups in the U K to help them recruit and train new journalists in the woods of Facebook. The money will encourage more reporting from tones, we have lost the local newspaper and beach reporters. Join me on the line for MAURICE IVA gave a professor of political journalism at the university of Sussex, welcome to the program. I've what does this blunt sewn likes to you? We should probably remember that to the local media sluiced positive it's advertising revenue Facebook itself. Will suppose though to some people might say this is just a cynical ploy. Facebook's been facing a barrage of negative publicity. The last couple of years of allegations of carrying fake, news racism, and so on and so forth, and others would say jolly good this is lost by big media to help little media. It's an interesting venture. But I think one could exaggerate significance start. It's only for two years. And Secondly, it's a bit of a pinprick over the last ten years more than three hundred newspapers local newspapers have closed in the UK. This isn't going to change the basic economic facts that most of the tising which was that lifeblood has migrated to the web. And also how much is four and a half million pounds for a company like Facebook. Well, indeed, I mean Facebook is now larger than most economists in the countries economists in the world, it's a tiny amount. It's an it's an important a recognition. I think we can say it's a recognition by Facebook. They have been causing severe damage to the local press and Russo exploiting them because as we will know they carry much of the news for free and give a pittance in terms of advertising revenue back to the newspapers. So. This is a recognition by Facebook that they have some responsibility. But as you say, it's it's Facebook, this is a small amount. It's the two years only. Maybe they think it will help their reputation which has taken a bit of a battering. It's only for two years, but homeless more do we know about the details. What actually is going to be happening practice? Well, lose something in the I've got to go into the press reports and the press release, which they talk about community news, which will sounds jelly good. But the real problem with the closure of local newspapers is what we call the democratic deficit. That is the dare I say boring work of following. What local councils are doing weekend we count. Now. Eventually that reveals wrongdoings puts Luke who councils under the spotlight, it creates the space for democracy, doing little of diary community pieces, which interests the public, but address this big problem to me. That's not the really shoot. I think it's a bit of a cop out. I think they should be putting journalists in to do that hull digging which creates a democratic in lively press. Do you think there's also a risk that journalists somehow become too closely involved with Facebook, at least they are very much aware. Here where the money's coming from. Yes. Just journalists cynical or should I say skip to collecting? They might just tighten them on involved in one sense. I don't think they'll feel loyalty to face. But but I do feel just to the point. I was making that they would see the sort of stories which we could click bait they will see the sort of stories that shit on Facebook gets re tweeted because they do tend to be the Tribu the the wizard the sort of things we talk about when we we see them. But then not the hunt of the problem. The not about monitoring what local politicians liquid service local police up too. So this was the sort of thing that will encourage people to keep keep clicking on Facebook. But will it be good for journalism? Will it be good treatable Crecy? I'm a little bit skeptical. Exactly. And it's become very very clear. Facebook has been taking much of the advertising revenue. These local newspapers have been enjoying before. But do you think if you look at what's been happening? No longer term. Do you think Facebook has somehow changed journalism how things being written about nowadays? Well, let's let's put Google in the dock as well because between Facebook and Google who they now dominate distribution of news across the world. One of the things excuse me, always often where I've MS when I go into newsrooms now, even the BBC up on a big click abode, it's showing which stores of being clicked on most by redes- and the must be a temptation to keep looking for those stories because they do tend to be the trivial Brexit, which is a turban important story. Does get as many clicks. As the snake eight elephant or whatever if you could not sure snakes can the elephants. You know? You know, exactly what I'm talking about so much fear that consciously or otherwise journalists looking click fate. They do when they get this stores. The top of the. And you know, I might set a bit pompous. But that ain't good Trajan. Listen, what do you what do you expect from Facebook? Now is this really going to be only a one of Tom offensive? What do you think this could become something more longer term? Well, I think Google sort of Facebook too in the sense that Google has been putting money into various news projects for euro two now in use lab. So maybe the the big tech firms coming to recognize that they've got a responsibility in was said to be cynical. They need to keep newspapers alive to some extent because they get a lot of advertising revenue republishing the stores in local papers. So it's local news dries up. They're going to suffer their own solar. So maybe let's be positive. This is a mixture of themself interest, but also a sense of social responsibility. And maybe they can be a happy marriage at least coexistence between the two. Who knows? Let's hope I'm wrong, that's Google Facebook, and the others of the saviors of the local media another execution is let's hope. Well, you have been following all the reporting on on this topic as well. What is your feeling? Do you think this charm offensive is working do think there is going to be more goodwill towards Facebook? Well, soon to say. I don't think. Goodwill. I mean Facebook has got a lot of work to do to correct. All the negativity. That's been swirling around it. It's recognizing its love st-. That fake news was something that they had a major role in promoting too soon to say I hope in the end because I am a journalist. I think will media to be welcomed that Facebook and Google image, which has taken a knock can recover doesn't cover. Maybe this is the first sons of dawn that equally it might be a Mirage trenches. Finally, I've what does the future of local regional newspapers, Luke like, no. Is there any light? And horizon. Well, there's always hope I think some will survive. I think there are certain communities particularly communities have a sensor and identity, which can sustain local papers, which can -duced the revenue by say it was well advertising it's advertising it's taken hit because the local newspapers worst sustained but advocates homes. Two jobs. Secondhand coz they've gone. It's much more efficient to search for those on the net. But there are other advertising, Luke who shops and other events and sales. So I think in some communities the local paper, we'll survive that. It's a shadow it's full. So the decline will continue for how know, but the the news media is changing, and we've just got to watch wait and hope that some savant. Exactly, that's what was gay. But thank you very much for joining us. You only to the Monaco daily with me. Mark was hate him. Stay out. Twin two to thirty five almost thirty six in London. This week's episode of the openness host Daniel obey ch-, sits down. We've Henry Cookson phone. Drove Kook soon adventures of leaving the will to finance Henry became record sitting polar explorer and perceive spills multi-million dollar business specializing in best boat journeys folklore since we've no request being to lodge many of the trip conceded wilt first experiences, including the first commercial sub merciful dive in and talk to here is parts of their conversation. There are people around the world who they thirst for travel. They be done it. They've got the t shirt, and it's like where do we go next? I suppose that enthusiasm though, I have that curiosity Meisel to slightly disrupt nature of irreverence. Allows me to suggest things to people who do have the resources to something. They haven't done before. And so like a perfect marriage. I'd always been very connected with a lotta people, and I've always loved good stories and over the years before even knew ever gonna get into this world. I just had this live database in my head of all these curious stories places events, and then I'd just go this bucket list of things to go and do and it still huge, and it grows every day. It's it's it's interesting nowadays. Because this moth. For this type of stuff in that bucket list. You see people taking it off you see it becoming more mole usual. But again suppose keeps the keys the challenge going keeps the excitement that. Feels like you've tapped into sort of this raw human nature adventures spirit that that maybe predates human records. And you know, you can hear it in your voice when you're talking about the experience that you get personally from putting together these trips, but what is it meant to you to work with people to create those types of experiences for them to be leader. So I've always. I grew up in a country. So my parents had a small villa travel company, and we had with we used to go spend some in Greece sort of policy the arrangement. My parents is these spoiled brats. You'll you're out in Greece for the summer bum. We have a business. So we're going to have these drinks policies. We're going to host the clients you guys need to go and talk to the kids. Make sure they're all happy bring together. So right from the early days, I've always been that to make sure people looked after. And it's in my nature on a sort of wanting to give people such as fashion than show it in the best. I've always put people in tonsure each other. It's just one of those gift, I suppose, I was given. And so two tape people to incredible places. I mean, the satisfaction watching people's eyes light up it may sound corny and cheesy. But does nothing better. And then when you. Dating with with with clients, and guests who come from privileged backgrounds who have seen those things, and maybe sort of our bit bold about what they say. Because everyone promises this hyperbole of things and then completely knocking mess up. So if watching them thief, something that they never dreamed that if a witness and then to sort of take that further. I've always been very close to nature a huge passion for conservation. And these types of people they have the ability to make huge change. It's very current. Now every day there's a sort of a horror story in the press about what would into a planet so to energies, these types of people with influence with their resources and see what's happening on the ground. That is just the biggest satisfaction. You can get and we've had a huge amount of success in that respect. Introducing people to research to NGOs. Making the way what's going on? And they will contribute and help. Sometimes we marry that into the trips we do not because we won't into wanting to push conservation down, I'll guess throats, but actually heightens the experience allows them to see things they wouldn't otherwise see and they can take and leave. We'll leave it. So the sort of it's quite a privileged place to be to make those introductions. But then as I said that satisfaction is is immense. I imagine a lot of your clients as well have concerns about impact and sustainability and things like that. And in these places, you're going to take them tell me a little bit about that concrete impact. How do you get involved? And how do you make a difference? So it totally depends. We really bespoke the true meaning of the word every time we start a trip. It is blank piece of paper. And we we build it around the client client state, Nassar know what? Want? Sometimes they have a vague idea. Sometimes very specific. Sometimes just give us some give us some pointers. So this little siltation. And then we will once we've got to fail. What we can provide. They have a feel for what we can provide. They like we give them auctions. We give them ideas. So if someone's into diving that type of client they've normally dove in many many places, so what's next? Well, we can take them to an area, which is off-limits we can work with local researches, and you can help with Shaq tacking and powder that sort of arrangement is that you helped with the funding. Shock tags are exceptionally expensive. It's the one thing that prevents a lot of these marine research is doing that work. So with these clients they can provide the funding for that. And they get experiences. Second to none in Africa. We supported rhino conservation. We've done stuff in the Galapagos with giant tortoises? Across the globe. We've helped in Canada again up in the Great Barrier for us that this fantastic people up that who are doing crucial crucial work to prevent business. Putting in oil stations and bringing in oil tankers, and we've helped introduce them to people who can really fun them help them. Give them a voice to stop these big corporate interests and with success. So there's no sort of set playbook some of all trips const, they just want to drown and apologetic about that. That's what they want. We will try and introduce them to an aspect which is maybe a bit different to that. That the end of the day people will do they won't we build it around them. But if someone is doing that adrenalin type experience we can suggest we'll let you burning fuel. That's some carbon offset does the local community. Maybe you can sort of get involved part of you'll trip. So everything's flexible. There's no sort of dictum saying we have to do this. We have to do that. It's about the guests. We'll give them suggestions. And they can take leave it that was Henry Cookson phone, drove kooks, Aventis speaking to Mona -chools Demio Bauge, and you can hear the full interview on the entrepeneurship which premieres at nineteen hundred London time tomorrow is you only sending to the monocle daily up next week continue with the Asian newspapers. Stay tuned. UBS is a global financial services firm with over one hundred fifty years of heritage built on the unique dedication of people. We bring fresh thinking and perspective to our work. And we know that it takes marriage of intelligence and haunt to create lasting value for. It's about having the right idea, of course. But it was time about having one of the most accompany systems and unrivaled network of global experts. That's why at EBS we pride ourselves on thinking smarter to make a real difference. Tune in weekly to the bulletin with UBS Pearl. The neatest insights on opinions from UBS and experts from around the world. Six forty four A M in Beijing Twenty-three forty four in Stockholm and twin two to four two four here in London. It's time now for a check of the Asian front pages. We're joined today by Carla Banou Rossini, teaching fellow in southeast Asian politics. Socio in London. Welcome to the program. Call you'll first story. Today's from the Straits Times a story from Malaysia the Malaysian government leaders are now backpedaling wanna plan to ratify United Nations human rights Tweety. Why is that? Well, Malaysian politics is highly racial is this is in part due to the constitutional privilege that excuse me privileges that are given to me Muslims, but also due to a very long history of Malayan nationalism. And this is this means that even though there's a new government in Malaysia, which has instituted a wide array of political and economic reforms. In fact, it seems like the one aspect of politics that they're not able to directly reform at this moment is related to the questions of race. So they won't be able to implement the or they won't be able to ratify the international convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination. And I think it's a very very interesting because this is these are are fairly. These are reformers they wanted to change the system, but actually even for the Malayan Muslims who are part of the now ruling coalition that used to be the opposition. This is kind of a no go zone for them. Exactly. So considering the facts that it's difficulty in this country to eliminate all forms of racial discrimination. At least if joining this international convention. Whoo. To me that doesn't mean that there is there is a fair bit of racism, but the system is dependent on that racism. It's been dependent on that racism for ver-very longtime and part of this has to do with a second ago with the political the central role that Mullane nationals and plays in Malaysia politics, Malays, lame Muslims are the numerical majority in in Malaysian, politics, but constitutionally their privilege, their central position in politics is guaranteed. And as I said before if to take the budget that was recently tabled in parliament, as example, this was perhaps the least racial is budget. We've ever seen in Malaysian politics. And yet still the government won't go ahead and to ratify the treaty in this case. How do you think the u and he's doing all this? I think that they could have people who are professionals within the UN would've predicted this outcome. It doesn't it is perhaps from far people are going to be confused by how liberal the new government appears, and then they balk at this. This doesn't make this isn't going to make sense on national level. Let's continue with a mother from you from the Asian papers. The Tacoma post in front of us, a must here and detail world of contrasts. What is this article about these two of these leaders? Yeah. Absolutely. So these are this is a fairly. Lively commentary, comparing the two leaders together deteriorate was recently trapped in what has been referred to as nap gate where he took naps during the conference and didn't attend any of these meetings. Mahatir who is twenty years old. And a he is I think he's ninety three years old says the he makes all of his meetings, and so here, the this was actually written for the Philippines, inquirer initially, and here Mahat here is the foil for this criticism to tie. He's surrounded by people who constantly make excuses for him. He's not not willing to play the game till medically. He doesn't take his duties to the public seriously. I think in some ways the problem with this commentaries that although it does a good job of these developing these criticisms against territory, in fact, Mahat here is an autocrat in the same way that detail is and so in some ways that let's Mahatma off the hook. But he seems to be doing something, right? It seems that he's public image at least slightly better absol-. Absolutely. I think people will argue that his return to politics his ability to manage the economy to to cement investor confidence at a time of substantial political transition has been all to his credit. The problem is that nobody knows when Anwar Ibrahim is going to become prime minister does this kind of certain Malaysian politics, and that's because Mahanta rules autocrat at a very basic level. Let's continue to Toyland next very interesting article from there how how how members of of some politics shifting elsewhere. Right. So this is related to toxin the part is of toxin Chinnawat. Here's a deposed prime minister. And he is still highly influential in Thai politics, one of his party's put tie is under huge pressure from the government. There's threats from the government to disband the party and also the military developed constitution has put a lot of pressure on a disadvantage. Ing. Large parties. So the basically the constitution is created to or crafted to disadvantage toxins parties. And in fact, what we have here is party. Switching going on across from one talks pro toxin party to another pro toxin party. This has happened already one time already when a previous pro toxin party was disbanded. And now, we're in the process of watching a gun and also it's not just members going from one party to another. It's also policy lead us in this case. Yeah. And this is where the articles very interesting because extensively what we could see is this part of leadership jumping ship because of the pressure. That's coming down from the government. They don't want to be around one the one the old parties disbanded, but actually the article raises some interesting insights into this is possibly about insight fighting across the leadership as well. And those who are Li leaving are leaving for political purposes for political reasons because of infighting good old these resulting in increased political instability. Instability, just before next election. I think this is a very interesting question. The the I don't think that this will result in any increased political stability, but we have to remember that these elections are not going to be open and fair and therefore any type of chaos that occurs beforehand is only going to work in the military's favor. Another story from Asian correspondent, Indonesia is to develop sharia compliant blockchain gold exchange. Lets you explain. Okay. What what's fascinating about? This piece is that there's there's a certain type of. Alchemy here on the one hand we have gold, which is a historically a very very important commodity. We have the brand new the new of the blockchain and then also. The modern religions or religious certification that comes with being sharia, certified this is the development of a gold based cryptocurrency, which means the cryptocurrency is digital transfer technology. Excuse me, it's a a distributed ledger technology, which will allow investors to rather than invest in a currency, which with hot large fluctuations of value. The the gold peg will allow that value to remain very stable and four Muslim investors who don't want to invest in speculative investments are usually based investments this ser- sharia, certified blockchain cryptocurrency would be perfect investment for them. How unique is this? It's there are two aspects of it which are not as unique as they may seem first of all it is Islamic finance is widely available in southeast Asia. So in that regard. It's not very unique and actually even gold basis law. Mc finance in terms of crypto currencies have been developing in the in the Gulf states. And also there's go base sharia compliant cryptocurrency in Malaysia as well just buying me. One most story, which is from channel news Asia, this this woman has been seen chasing off to a plane on Tomek at Bali airport after missing her flight, we don't quite know how this can happen. But what do you think this will this will mean for people who are about to fly from that airport? Be feeding particularly safe. Well, it's probably not a good role model for how to catch your flight. I think here the problem is that in a ninja has been faced with very very bad news both in terms, especially in terms of the tragic lion aircrash recently. But it's not just that last year. I think the transport ministers came out and said that many of the accidents that currying in the airline industry or related to drug related, and I think this is just pile up. The bad news on in India's airline industry caller banana. Thank you very much for joining us. Please the Monaco daily on monocle twenty four. And finally today a close friend of Russian president of Laramie Pugh soon. We'll be in show show for major airport upgrade in the key islands in the white sea the area in the north west of Russia can only be reached by Aaron that winter time joining me for MAURICE Elizabeth bra who leads the modern deterrence approach to Roussy, welcome to the program. So at least both how exceptional is this airports upgrade protects. Well, there aren't many church islands in the world. And this is one of a very few. And until now it had a fourth one might call the normal output for for an island this size, which is our own. If you monks on this island. But now all of a sudden, this is really a major upgrade. And so it seems. On on the surface of it seems like it's a very cute story. Oh, they're putting a lot of money into monastry island. But really, it's I think what my mind called was on my part of Russia's or put in strategy in the High North exactly as you mentioned this island of may just home hold off the Russian Orthodox church. And it seems that there are grunts plans for these islands in Russia at the same time, though, it has to be mentioned that the Russian Orthodox Bishop bay Triarc akilah own conditions for this project to that's right. He was not too excited about about this major airports upgrade because he's worried about two minute tourists coming to his island. And then one might ask. If if the monks on the island will need this major airport upgrading why is it needed? And I think this again ties into the larger strategy of of Russia in the High North and how Russia is really increasing its footprint. I mean, this is rush on territory. So they can do whatever they like. But really they are. Putting in lots of money and effort into infrastructure in the High North, so what is the grand plan for that region? Then well, so as you know, the the ice is melting the Arctic ice is melting and that makes the whole region a whole lot more inhabitable. And that means that whoever gets first and essentially established the infrastructure would be a whole lot better position than everybody else to take advantage of the promotional, but she didn't account live has increased trade along the Arctic routes, so I love this at stake here and they used to be. Very peaceful pasta the world simply because it was so much is and Russia cooperating very peacefully with with Norway and Finland. Now, that's not so certain anymore. Simply because the region is becoming so much more attractive to to investments and trade and so forth. What's going to other examples of the infrastructure push? Could you give us? So if you look at the military, which is really the first place, I've regretted it looks when they talk about Russia and Putin in the Kremlin or the rather the minister of defense has put a lot of money into upgrading reopening old military basis from Soviet times. In some cases, they have the heavy even build new ones. And so a lot has been said about this. And in reality, it's not that many soldiers they have there. But of course, they have very good at publicizing is. So so wave all seen images of Russian soldiers on snow scooters. And they do have a few of those Elizabeth hose is that these projects will be run by Gennady Timchenko who is President Putin's friend is short shelf. The company called steroid drunks. Gus not very surprising. It's also he's one of Putin's best friends and his chairman of the of the Russian Hockey League. K H L finished citizen used to live in Finland for a long time. And. And ran a company owned a company called gunfire, which he has no sold. But he's he's one of the major major league Arxan Putin's best very best friends. And so as you said his company, which is a former subsidiary of gas prom, but now owned by Timchenko is an investing this money. And by the way, here's an interesting aspect so sim- chango himself has sold his private jet because he says he can't get the parts for it. And now that he's under US sanctions. So one wonders if he will be able to fly into this renovated airport wants that remains to be seen. Thank you very much that was Elizabeth, bro. And that's awful today's edition of the monocle daily. The show was reduced by Daniel Bates onto Ben Ryland to the research. It was Barbara my Monet, I'll restore your money was Christie Evans. The globalist is here in eight hours time with Georgina Godwin to the Monaco dailies back at the same time tomorrow, thanks for listening and by four now.
Monday 24 February
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the twenty fourth of February. Two Thousand Twenty twenty. Four debriefing is brought to you in partnership with Rolex. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you. Live from studio one here at Midori. House in London. I'm Emma Nelson and very warm. Welcome to today's program coming up. The Corona virus leads to drastic measures from some national governments but other Chinese airlines wants to start flying again will explore the tensions between what the medic say. What businesses wont also ahead? My studio panelists Quentin Peel and Steve. Crawshaw we'll examine the changing shape of German politics and we'll also assess the latest democratic campaign victory for Vermont. Senator Bernie Sanders. Plus Irish voters may have shattered the political model in the country's recent general election but those in charge of forming a government struggling to pick up the pieces. It's a very politically difficult situation for Phoenix. I'm fearful to manage because in a way there's no bod- option for champagne. Plus the leaders of some Eastern European cities will tell us how their administrations of fighting back against populism. We are in kind of opposition of our current actual governments well for guys who are liberal with the same values of he you. Democrats plus the newspapers to when we cross live to the western Balkans to check in with our correspondent. The that's all coming up right here in the briefing with me Emma Nelson and a very warm welcome to today's program efforts to contain the corona virus of being stepped up the early closure Venezia's carnival the quarantining of a dozen Italian towns and in North Korea. Three hundred eighty foreign nationals. Many of them diplomatic stuff have also been quarantined. The word pandemic is increasingly being used but other private companies have other plans with China and China Eastern Airlines. Both saying they want to restart some international services that were suspended. Jute the corona virus outbreak. John Everard was the. Uk's Ambassador to North Korea between two thousand six and two thousand eight. Chris Smith is a consultant Verona gist at Cambridge University. Welcome both gentlemen to the program. Chris could you explain to us? What is a pandemic in? Are we seeing one will? There's no strict definition actually of the word pandemic it gets used variably in different contexts. But what it really. Broadly translates into is wide scale. Spread off an infectious entity with that bacteria infection or a viral infection over a big geography and we usually talk about it being in multiple geographies at the same time so the strict definition of a pandemic is something that's newly emerged into a population and has begun to spread and has spread far and wide to inflict itself on very large of people across a big area rigid. What we appear to be seeing now insofar as their independent Sort of break outbreaks of the of the virus in the lakes of Italy and the likes of Iran and there are now moves to be moved being taken which suggests that things. That people are doing our preventative. For example up until now we've been quarantining people Within areas where there is an outbreak. But the weekend we saw in Venice the closure of a carnival to stop people from gathering. Is that a change in tactic. Will the bottom line with any kind of infectious outbreak is in the same way as we put out a fire by rubbing it of the things that needs to burn chiefly fuel viruses a pretty similar in the sense. That the only way you can get a virus is if you're rubbing up against someone who's got it and they can give it to you and then you incubator and you give it somebody else so if you stop people spreading it as a very effective way to curtail outbreak and it's very very difficult when you got huge numbers of people that are big geographies to do this but what we can do is to try to slow down the rate at which the thing moves because what tends to be problem under these circumstances is when health services and other services are overwhelmed by sheer numbers of symptomatic people. So if you can slow it down to a trickle rather than a flood you ultimately probably going to see the same number of cases overall. But they're happening more slowly and that means you've got more resources to share around and you'll under less pressure and therefore fewer things go wrong. Is that what's happening within? That's that's what's happening in Wuhan City. Where what they've tried to do is to bed down. On the number of cases they still ended up with stupendous numbers of cases. And that's because they came to the party a bit late in the sense that it caught them with their pants. Down spread a very long way into a large number of people before they were able to get on top of it other countries. Because we were forewarned. Other countries are trying to avoid having an mark too but at the end of the day. We all under no illusion that this is already this genie's out the bottle is so the horses are running has running amusing lots different metrics here but it spreading farm wide. It will come. It's a question of how quickly it comes and therefore if we can turn that tide into a trickle and just spread out how it comes and especially if we can spread out into summertime that will be useful because viruses spread much less well in summer than they do winter. John Chris. Sarah's talking about containment the slowing down of the spread of the virus. You've been following the events in hand very closely and there are suggesting that they're they're actually trying to loosen things around there. Yes that's right. A lot of evidence of real tension between provincial authorities and companies on the one hand who really want to get back to normal business and the central government on the other. That is still trying very hard to limit the spread of the disease. And I think you can argue that the Chinese authorities have been they can make the party's scriptwriting says but they have at least limited the disease mostly to who they province. Oh where the the great majority of the deaths have occurred Wuhan Yesterday suggested that it wanted to not end the quarantine but to ease it rather within hours. This government had issued a dicta- saying effectively owner. You don't back on your back your box. The quarantine continues we're getting a demand from China's allies to restart flights to which the Assad government has yet to respond and six other. Chinese provinces. Have Ost to relax certain quality measures and are waiting for permission from Beijing. Well let's talk a little bit more about this request to resume. Flights China and China Eastern Airlines. Say That within the next two months some of the international services that was suspended because of corona virus will be reintroduced at China plans to resume Frankfurt flights from Chengdu on the twenty eighth of February and I think that's the Star I think There's another low cost operator. Spring Airlines says that some domestic flights suspended previously will resume commonsense to me would suggest that's possibly not a great idea if you're trying to stop people from travelling. But how much pressure does that suggest? People are under either to get business going again or indeed to get out of the airlines are have been very very badly hit by this and will be put in all the pressure. They can on central government in China to release the restrictions. Just as an example Up until the outbreak of Corona Virus People were talking about the Chinese. Abc sector overtaking the US aviation sector in terms of global rankings. As we speak Chinese aviation is worth less than Portuguese. Aviation's go now. To twenty fifth in the world rankings. Some airlines have had counsel eighty percent of their flights. They are devastated on desperate Chris. Let's bring you back in there. I mean when you hear as as someone who is an expert in the spread of diseases and you hear that a large international airline wants to start resuming flights from the country where this virus came from. What are your thoughts? Well if I were running the airline I would be arguing that my airline is the safest in the world and it's very very good track record and that there's no evidence. My airline is linked to any kind of outbreak. All the usual. Spiel is what I would trot out. The reality is this the genie's order out of the bottle and it has spread to multiple geographies. So actually any air travel is probably helping to facilitate spread. We know that if I stopped the clock right now and totted up all of the people who are airborne around this planet at any moment. It's about a million two million and a half people airborne around the earth. Many of them on long-haul flights. Which are you know? Put you from one major center to another major in well under the incubation period and therefore the detection period of a whole raft imprint every infectious disease. We know so. We know the traffic. An air travel is a very good catalyst spreading these things but actually the elephant in the room is this is already spread. It's already gone all over the place. If we want to just one set of flights we should stop all flights really because to be focusing one geography. Yes that'll help a bit. But on the whole if you think about the gentleman that went to Singapore caught the virus in Singapore came to the UK Then went to the APPs on a skiing holiday infected a handful of people in fact about nine people over there and they then came back to Britain and they had the virus. They were followed up traced isolated. We wouldn't have known about them if they just come back into Britain because they would have been dubbed returning travelers from the EU risk. And they wouldn't have been tested. Let's introduce the political element all this as well as I mentioned earlier on that North Korea's Corentin A lot of foreign nationals. I think it's more than three hundred. Many of them are diplomatic. Staff questions must be asked as to whether this is actually a genuine health concern whether they think actually this. This is quite an interesting political. Move to make yes I think there are genuine health concerns of play here but they aren't the only factors. There are constant rumors that North Korea is concealing the outbreak of current affairs in North Korea. Of course the authorities denied that his entered the country and stopping diplomat stopping foreigners from moving around in North Korea would be a very good way of preventing the outside world from finding out what is really going on. We don't yet know how the North Koreans off implementing this quarantine June. The SARS epidemic most diplomats were forced to leave that diplomatic compounds and to sit in a designated hotel outside. Pyongyang in rather boring conditions We don't know whether that's going to happen. This time or simply confined to quarters Chris very briefly and there is a question begged here. That's if you have different countries having different ideas and different approaches. Where is the overarching world body? That can actually make everybody get into line. Will the role of the World Health Organization is to try to coordinate without being concerned with local politics but to try to go above that and be a high level overarching guide in terms of how we will cooperate with? Big Health Challenges. They coordinate the international response to the flu every year. They helped to collect samples more all over the world and then a big panel of scientists from thousands of laboratories actually participate a panel of scientists. Get together useful to derive the vaccine every year which is then shed knowledge around the world because the the approach taken is this is a global problem and global. Problem needs a global solution. This is identical John. Everard and Christmas. Thank you both for joining us on monocle. Twenty four you're listening to the briefing. In the moment we find out how Ireland is trying hard to pull a government together but I would the time twelve eleven here in London. A quick summary of the day's news headlines. His manacles Yolene. Gotha thanks Emma. Malaysian Prime Minister Mightier Mohammed has submitted his resignation to the king. The ninety four year olds decision comes amid reports that he may form a new coalition without his successor Anwar Ibrahim Mohammad made headlines in twenty eighteen when he became the world's oldest prime minister members of the. Uk's Labor Party are starting to vote for Jeremy Corbyn successor. Three candidates are in the running for leader circular starmer Rebecca Bailey and Lisa Nandy. The results of the leadership election will be announced at the beginning of April and a monocle. Minute reports that Adelaide has more cheap street parking than any metropolis in Australia. This abundance eats into the space available for bike lanes and footpaths and leaves residents more inclined to shirk public transport for more heads to monocle dot com slash. Minute does Oughta Day's headlines back to you Emma. Thank you very much indeed Yolene. It is now two weeks. Since the elections in the Republic of Ireland created a seismic change in its politics with the end of a two party system which switch between finagle and final full and the emergence of a third powerful voice that of Shin Fain now Ireland's political parties are preparing for a week of talks to try to work out a deal on the formation of a new government. And as you would imagine it's hard work a little earlier I was joined by Namie. O'leary she's hosted the Irish passport podcast and Europe correspondent for the Irish Times. She began by explaining how much progress has been made since the elections. There's been an initial round of exploratory talks between the parties. We've had the first vote to try an attempt to pick T. Chuck and no one has been successful. So now it's moving onto the second stage This week they'll be more talks between the parties on the next time. We expect to have a vote in parliament On to try and elected Ishaq is march the fifth. Although it's not particularly expected that one will be a elected by that stage so the main thing that's changed since the election is that immediately after the election it appeared that fearful had opened the door to some kind of deal with Shit Sane. The left-wing Nationalist Party unexpectedly got the most number of first preference votes But last week they're quite acrimonious exchanges in the Dole between the leaders of those two parties. That made it quite clear that that wasn't an option that was on the table on this really leaves only one option left with the numbers that there are some sort of deal between the two traditionally dominant parties fearful fingernail. Chin Feng stay. They're still going to try and form a government to the left government of change and their plan to hold rallies around the country in in favor of that government But it's it's very unclear whether they have the numbers to do that so we are now in a situation. The way you've just described what I learned could be taken into absolutely different directions. Xinfei wanting one thing and the two old traditional party thinking if we get together we might be able to keep control in some way. Well it's very politically difficult situation for Phoenix. I'm fearful to manage because in a way there's no bod- option for champagne. So she would be delighted to get into government but equally if they can be the main opposition on they can cast the two old parties essentially two sides of the same coin. No difference between them and clubbing up to keep the might of power. That's also you know that's a good political narrative from their point of view note. That can help to kind of rally their base for next time on the other option of courses that we go to the polls again in another election. Although I don't think that's particularly likely on Xinfang could with hindsight run more candidates and perhaps do better than they did this time We we shouldn't expect any kind of resolution soon because the mats are quite complicated at this time given the result on if we look at the president of the last election it took seventy days time to to form a government and it could be even more complicated this time so we might not be looking at government until April. I'm just looking at the way things are going in. And the idea that shouldn't fain was approached and and now is being pushed out. How acceptable a situation will that be given as what you describe the popularity of Shin Fain in the elections and the changes it caused yes certainly Like I say it's a. It's a narrative that the party will say is them being excluded from power. They'll say that you know the old guard is coming up to preserve their hold on power and won't let them in But also from the point of view Finnegan and fina full they they. There are opposed. To should vein. I mean they. They don't want to simply hand them to keep the keys to government and also a lot of the same way so there's quite a lot of division particularly within fall about whether the right thing to do is to to do a deal with champagne or to exclude them. That that's a split that runs right down through the Party and in the end me home. Martin seems to have taken the attitude that the best option is to exclude them But it's a it's a tricky one for them. They're in a difficult political decision. How happy will voters be though? However if this seismic change isn't actually reflected in the way that the governments are made up. It's a tricky one. I think what Finnegan unfruitful are. Perhaps counting on is that as the weeks go by there will be more of a Desire for stability especially as the brexit negotiations become more pressing. Because that's going to become an issue this week. When the European Union is due to agree they're negotiating guidelines for the next stage of tokes which has massive implications for Arden. It can really make or break the Irish economy so the more in state unstable. Thanks get on the International Scene. I think On funeral are perhaps wondering whether overtime Irish voters might say. It might not be such a bad thing to have a stable experience government in place that was naming leary hosted the Irish passport podcast in Europe correspondent for the Irish time. She joined on the line little earlier on at talk to me about the Irish elections. You were the briefing on medical twenty. Four on news panel is just around the corner monocle and Rolex for new the pioneers. The pioneers is a brand new series. That tells the stories of people improving the planet. A heroic supports these innovators with whom they share a passion to safeguard in the fifth future. Generations gain precious insight into the fresh thinking that is disrupting received wisdom for the better and learn how Phyllis action continues to be the crucial driver of change. The Pioneers in partnership with Rolex. The time here in London is twelve eighteen. You're listening to the briefing with me. Emma Nelson. It's time now to take a closer look at the day's news stories. I'm joined by Steve Crucial Policy Directorate Freedom from torture and the author of several books on political protests by Quentin Peel. His a former Berlin correspondent for the Financial Times. Gentlemen Welcome back to the Studio. Good to see you both. We begin in the United States or Bernie. Sanders has firmly cemented his position as front runner in the race to be the Democratic presidential nominee. He comfortably won the Nevada caucus claiming only he alone has what it takes to bring all walks of American life together to fight Donald Trump and his friends. They are GonNa win this election. They think they're going to win. This election. By the binding our people up on the color of their skin or where they were born or their religion or their sexual orientation. We all go to win because we are doing exactly the opposite. We're bringing our people together. Triumphant bunny son does the following the Nevada cooker. Steve Let us begin with you I think when this all started not not all of the suspected Sandra to be so galvanizing and actually to do so. Well so early on. Yes extraordinarily with politics. More generally what we've had in the past couple of years both in the UK and in the US repeatedly things seem completely impossible than happen happens consistently commentators including like us us so often ending up with egg on their faces and there are small parallels to what we saw in the UK. Well you had Jeremy. Corbyn who was repeatedly couldn't possibly win a leadership and then became the leader of the Labour Party with lots of enthusiasm. And what's I think can be very interesting? The same process that we saw with the Here in the UK is when the establishment for when the establishment of his own party will accept what's happening the second question of course is can actually face often. Can he get beyond that bubble enthusiastic public and he actually win the big election as opposed to the the nomination? Bubalo is growing bigger by the day. If you look at Nevada it has sort of pretty accurate reflection of the diversity of the US public and just listening to sanders was saying he's he's determined to bring people together regardless of who you are or what you do. It's a very powerful idea isn't it? I think he's done what Nevada has shown is that he sexually very clearly picked up the biggest chair of the Hispanic vote for example which is going to be critical to anybody to win the big election and so when Super Tuesday comes in ten days time off seven days. Eight days time California is there with a very big Hispanic vote. Now if he can get Texas and California I think he becomes unstoppables. It made sign that you know Mike. Bloomberg's left it too late. It was the suggestion. Actually it was this time for years ago in Nevada that Hillary Clinton who she started to sort of eclipse Bernie Sanders. But we're in a very different place now because we don't just have two candidates we've got we've got everybody at each other's throats within the. Democrats does that also but also says the unthinkable so I was living in the states in two thousand nine when the When Obama and Hillary Clinton were facing up against each other and hillary absolutely seemed to be the front runner to be the nominee at that on that occasion. And the the kind of subtext narratives sometimes not even subtext with. Oh come on. You can't have a black candidate B. President go for the real one which is Clinton brings all this and the belongs to me. That was really she both she and her husband both she and Bill Clinton. What kind of pretty much make next this? It belongs to me and gradually it was like actually no. This is doable. But she hung on for dear life long after it was clear to the country as a whole that Obama was going to get nation and what was also very then who knows where this one will go but it was striking up until election day. There was huge link. Can America really do these really a black president and then of course it did happen. It happened not once but twice whether we get the same thing here that again. The the impossibility is happening in terms of a quote unquote self declared socialist. That'll be so interesting. Will American or a man who calls himself socialist himself szeged? Bradley would be even more amazing in this day and age Zigzag Boomerang is also very instinct because we had this powerful Obama presidency in that happened twice and you can certainly see in some elements of trump's victory a kind of like whoa. Where did that come from and you go right to the other end of the spectrum in terms of sanity and many other things to be honest and it was very interesting if the unpopularity that trump has caused many things gives an energy which sends it spinning back. The other way is going to be interesting. Few months does make for a very nasty battle. Doesn't it I mean. Trump will have some pretty easy targets if you get saunders up against him. The socialist the old man the man with the heart condition. The angry man not to lead. Not least I mean it just doesn't have that hard time picking big holes in Sanders does he. We'll certainly all those familiar things you know but above all the man is so left wing you know. And he's from this tiny little corner of America Vermont you know representing a bunch of hippies and old white men and one huge advantage that he has which hillary absolutely did not have so she could be portrayed somehow the establishment of course trump also establishment. But he loves to be the outsider and she was quote unquote establishment. That card is way more difficult to play with Sanders. Look if you look at the left behind voters if you like he can speak more easily than she perhaps. Good enough and I find it quite astonishing that yes you have the left behind voters but I've been lucky enough to to go to a small talk held by Bernie Sanders and I was sitting about twenty feet from him and it was at a festival where every other event was dare I say populated by white couples from north London over sixty or wearing blue plastic rain coverings. And yet saunders comes in and I don't know where they bust these kids in from but they were teenagers and they will whooping and hollering as if this guy were. Well didn't look sound like he did. I still struggle to find out what it is about. Sound that so magical. I think it's different. It's new. It's not establishment. It's it's against the elite. It's all of those things and it's it's funny. It's it is also as one would say in Britain the Jeremy Corbyn effect. Where did all those young people who were backing Jeremy? Corbyn Luke where it got the Labor Party fundamentally nowhere. It's worse to eat in in many years. So that's the danger but isn't it quite extraordinary that these old men because after trump's old man sanders is an old man and Mike Bloomberg is an old man? They're all in their late seventies. I mean they made me feel young for goodness sake before moving onto the next subjects. Let's bring in. That idea of Bloomberg with Quentin is just mentioned. You have incredible popularity however you have a splintered midfield when it comes to middle ground when it comes to The other candidates buttigieg Biden and Bloomberg. Surely if you brought them together how would that change things I mean? I just wonder whether it's time for a couple to drop out and and for the democratic middle ground to really work out who they want to take. Yeah it's interesting isn't it? I mean that is quite a big if because so much fighting between them and then it reminds me of everything that Clinton just said about the parallels with Jeremy Corbyn. A- are definitely. You Know Jeremy Corbyn. Who could hold the Glastonbury Festival? You can imagine Bernie Sanders during the equivalent in the state but equivalent in in the UK is innocence the Boris Johnson leadership where the entire conservative establishment didn't want him and they were desperate to become united against and fundamentally failed because they were pulling in different directions. And I it feels to me that the Democrats are now in the same place and also just the cliche but it is true. The nature of these successive rounds in the. Us system mean to certain point just becomes clear that you are the front runner and it's really hard to coalesce about thirty. I think Mike Bloomberg's left it too late because he could end. Oslo gets the Democratic nomination. Of course Bloomberg could run as an independent. He's got the money to Germany this weekend. More destabilizing news for the Party of Chancellor Angela Merkel the CD. You suffered a big defeat in the regional elections in handbook pushed to third place behind the centre-left sp and the Greens Quentin. Could you just briefly recap what happened in Hamburg? That's got US also worried. It's two different worlds. Not sure we should be worried about and I think we should way be rather reassured by Hamburg. That sort of a degree of old-fashioned sanity prevailed. I think they'd Stephen. I can remember to twenty thirty years ago. Even we were talking about red-green coalitions in Hamburg. This Social Democrats have something you now have got a johnny decent vote thirty nine percent. The Greens have doubled their vote from twelve to twenty four percent but the Christian Democrats have suffered their second worst result ever in Atlanta election with only eleven percent And it shows that they are now really finding this business solve a party. That doesn't know how to replace Angela. Merkel they're blown wide open by that it is that issue isn't it? I mean up until now Steve. Every time you say the CD you. I've just done it the CD you Angola Markle's Party and it seems impossible to separate the two. This is clearly something that the CD you're having to do. They failed with AK. There are all manner of Accusations that they lefty alternative to feel doctor and get a little bit too close and gives them great threats. Is this a moment for the CD with a realizing that they can no longer survive? They can they're going to have to survive without Muti. Yeah I mean bear in mind as Quentin says. We were journalists together in sometimes deep in the last century basically and even then There was constant stories about the instability of Germany. I I lost count of the number of stores that my editors wanted about all the shows. This show this new vote shows this shows this and I remember on one occasion right in new. Year piece commissioned like all how dangerous would it be and I said look all the headlines and then ignore them because actually the nope not despite. But because of Germany's history it has built in so many things. Malcolm herself has you say is now seen as absolutely the core of stability remember that she with her predecessor. Helmut Kohl he described as does Mitchen the little go and she has actually shown herself to have an incredible strip. Who knows who will come through on the CD you now. But I agree with Quentin. I think it's super interesting to have twenty something percent from the Greens playing a role in environmental party but actually as everyone knows Germany well is. It's much more environmentally. It's kind of about a whole set of values and I think that's super interesting as the pushback on the far. Afdc IT reminds us that there are tools of Germany which is partly West East. But not only you have this issue as a degree in. Don't need you. You must have the values that have as you say been bubbling along inside Germany for as long as I can remember at least but suddenly the news the planet and time has has forced the Greens actually took to blossom absolutely there. They've that time has come. I think it's very possible that the next German chancellor could actually be agreeing we could have a green black coalition but this is the problem for the Christian Democrat Party there. They are trying to find success if America because as you say come. Combo has thrown in the towel and given up. She was the chosen successor. Now we had four men all from the same land to Germany. All from North Rhine-westphalia competing and in many ways. They represent a pretty traditional view. But they have a party that you squeeze from one side by the Greens and probably more dangerously from them. Even squeezed from the other side by the Alternative Dodge stanfield tentative the dewey. Call it far-right Anyway. Super Nationalist Party Anti Immigrant Party which is picking up lots of support in East Germany. I wonder how you actually do. Get this instability that everybody always talks about. I wonder where the real moment has come though. Because if you have four men who come from North Rhine-westphalia there's a tradition there and then you have the Greens and you have a country which absolutely loves its cars in. Its industry is highly dependent on that kind of stuff. They still have. Cole where are we going with this? Steve Well yes I mean. Every party has its own small. Little Lamb double standards. Would you like to call it quite right that we many green voters who also have a very nice car that goes very fast indeed on the autobahn that's undoubtedly true and I do think we'll know that with gratitude bag and many other things clearly environmental things are there? I think that it's interesting in terms of more general stability one thing. Is that if you look at the voting pattern the east and west is so divided. I would never have guessed thirty years after the war would be down. You'll be so divided but also it's so interesting that a conservative leader that come com. Our was forced to resign because her party had slightly got into bed without far right so frankly that's the kind of thing which parties across Europe doing the whole time in a really worrying way but Germany's still does have those protections like note thus far but no further. I hope that will stay. It's not a given but I hope it will stay. We're good to have an extraordinary moment. Though now. When Germany is about to the middle of the will become the president of the European Union and Everybody's saying oh well. Maybe they can solve the budget problem. They can solve the brexit problem. You know this'll be Makhala Swansong. And actually they're going to be looking inwards at their navels wondering. Oh my God. How are we going to run the country and hold it together politically? I suspect they will somehow by finally the purpose of reporters is you can safely argue to offer an image of the world as it is and to shed light on issues that would otherwise go unseen but several entrance to the twenty twenty Sony World. Photography awards found themselves either removed from the shortlist. All the entries significantly edited. All the candidates had one thing in common the pictures that had been removed. Were of the Hong Kong. Riots Steve. Tell us more about your reaction to this story. I mean your expert in protest freedom of speech It's so dismaying. One of the photographers. Some sells said it's quite amazing but not surprising and I think that's exactly right really so we're seeing governments constantly giving way being frightened. We know that China will put pressure so everything from when Liu Xiaobo got the Nobel peace prize the precious Norwegian government. Not to do this that and the other I was on a human rights defenders jury one time where the Chinese musset pressure on the unofficial. Who's to present saying if this happens then variously they're always threatening and sometimes government stand up often they don't but now you have this commercial sense. Komo all if we show that photograph than maybe. That'll have implications. I think it's absolutely craven. It's deeply shocking. Photographs are so important. Quenton and I are are are writers by trade originally but everybody who is a writer knows when you're writing the images all those cliches a picture being worth a thousand words is is entirely true. It gives the power. Wow that's what happening. It tells you and the idea that those things should actually not be shown I find so troubling arguably the two thousand nine hundred seventy world. Photography awards haven't done haven't really covered themselves in glory and perhaps one would argue. It's directed us all a little bit more quickly to the work of the likes of David. Beethoven and the Hong Kong based photographer coaching Ming. Whose whose images of the Hong Kong rats all breathtakingly powerful. I don't know how much attention is paid to them. Had I not been told that I shouldn't be looking at well. That's very true. I think they may blow up in their face. You know I mean it really is shocking that they could to the the this the absolute vital importance of images in bringing things remain remaining with us for so long but those photographs will remain with US regardless of whether they wanNA prize or not. They'll be right out there so I think that actually is the reassuring thing accusations as well. Double Standard Steve. I mean we have the the Hong Kong protests those images either being severely reduced in number or removed full stop until his legal and Google them but then one of the photographers said look we can show pert. Contrary protests of honk pictures of Hong Kong protests. But it's fine to show pictures of violent protests by Palestinian activists and other places. So where in your world of protest and freedom of speech. Where do people start drawing lines? Is it purely commercial or other other aspects too? I think it's commercial about bowling on something like a picture. The the really shouldn't be lines and if the already a finalist and they have as you say they're looking stupid because they've actually retreated on some. They put things back online. Which were previous offline so so. They are definitely on the retreat. I think that the the danger is certainly you mentioned Palestinian. I mean clearly the many occasions where the pressure from the Israeli authorities have been huge to try and stop certain things happening notice. I'm aware of in cases of images but this kind of different pressures. They do pop up everywhere. There was one a couple of days ago. This new film the dissident about the The Saudi journalist Khashoggi. Who was who was tortured to death in the the The Saudi consulate notoriously. And apparently I haven't seen the APP but a very powerful film made by an Oscar winning director that has not managed to fake gates rave reviews from those who've seen it but has not yet found distributors in key countries. And again you go like really. You'll that frightened of a country which is torturing the whole time that you don't even let a film be shown that for me. That's the kind of thing that really should not be crossed those gentlemen. I would rather pay a compliment. Steer experience in terms of our sort of explain the fact that you have both worked behind the Iron Curtain. You've both worked in the light of the then Soviet Union. I mean if you're thinking back to those times and someone said in twenty twenty. We won't be able to pitcher protest because of commercial reasons. What would you think that time? Clinton? I think I've been absolutely horrified because the whole point of the time that we were in the Soviet Union in its dying days but was glasnost was being opened up by the media and by the insistence on bringing out the unsaleable or unthinkable imprint too but also in every way and that was so reassuring but now in Russia today the media is hugely controlled now by by Putin and all his acolytes So you have a much more worrying situation so on the one hand you have the one of the internet which allow us to find these things regardless but at the same time the desire to control as grown. I hope that Quentin and I did not know this Moscow together. I hope that neither of US censored but there is a significant history. This one of the most notorious ones is from Moscow when in the nineteen thirties during the worst crimes of starling including a polling killing of millions in Ukraine the New York Times correspondent. Then who won a Pulitzer Prize of his glorious writing which they've tried to take away but if not quite succeeded he was so eager to stay in Moscow and be able to have access and this that and the other that he fundamentally tried to kill that story and I think that is. There's a around. The brilliant new Polish film called Citizen Jones which those themes and this is something which is about a Welsh guy who kind of exposed things against that and that I think is a lesson for any journalist or anyone who has power what can be said or not said the idea of shot something down because you want the Access. That is not a good place to go gentlemen. We'll have to leave it there. Steve Crawshaw and Cranfield. Thank you so much for joining me in the studio. You're listening to the briefing on monocle. Twenty four with 'em Nelson in just a moment we have the day's business headlines so stay tuned. Let's get the latest business headlines now. I'm joined on the line by Bloomberg's even parts you welcome back to multiple twenty four. Let's talk about the corona virus up until now the markets have been very cool in their approach to the to the spread of the virus that it appears is changing. Is that right it certainly is? Yeah Hello Emma yes. Up until now. The markets are fairly sanguine about the relentlessly negative news flow on the coronas. Better that is some come to an abrupt end today? Stocks Tumbling around the globe today here in Europe the benchmarks stocks hundred sliding some three point. Four percents that's his biggest dropper heading for its biggest drop since June twenty-seventh twenty. Sixteen if you remember that date. Italy's footsie maybe off some four and a half percent. That's the biggest fall. Of course the news flow from Italy quite bad today suggesting that Italy has become the epicenter in Europe of the Corona virus outbreak. But every single major markets around the region down some three percent very high volumes up around ninety percent on the average for this time of day every single energy group trading lower with oil and gas stocks tech and the car makers the worst hits looking at some of the stock the airline sector you expect trading down quite heavily Air Franz KLM as much as ten percent lower easyjet dropping thirteen percent and rhianna losing eleven percent. Anybody doing well not really. It's a pretty broad based self not just in stocks but also extending to commodities oil and metal. Both dropping today renewed phase at the coronavirus will hit global growth and hit the moaned around the world. Oil dropping some four percents in London today again. Last week we saw a brain crude having the longest run of gains in more than a year that was about worries about supply. But actually we're seeing Brent trading down two dollars a barrel to just over fifty six dollars. Abou fairly hefty drop in crude industrial commodities trading lower with Corpus sliding one percent and rob dropping more than two percents are pretty broad based sell off today in thank you very much indeed for joining us on the program. That was Bloomberg's Ian Pot. You're the briefing on monocle. Twenty four last December. The mayors of four Central European capitals forged an unprecedented alliance. They vowed to stand together against a populist. National governments in the declaration the leaders of Bratislava's Budapest Warsaw and Prague pledged up hold the values of tolerance democracy and the rule of law. And this month. The group has asked the European Union for direct access to the blocks funds saying that would enable them to make foster progress on E. U. Green policy objectives and other key issues but it work his monocle. Aleksei karloff scholars and politicians have been talking about the decline of Nation States in Europe for years. Yet we only have to look at Britain to see that these claims somewhat exaggerated here on the continent. The idea of taking back control is also gaining currency central European nations like Hungary or prime example. But not everyone there is opposed to deeper European integration. We are discovering new. Gang of younger mayors have all the same age nearly forty forty five and I think it's important to show that the city has own opinions. Marshmallow is the mayor of Bratislava's the capital of Slovakia together with his counterparts from pests Warsaw and Prague. He formed the pact of free cities. An alliance that he says represents a new way of bringing Europe together. Of course we are in kind of opposition of our current actual governments. Well four guys who are liberal with the same values of EU democracy so on and is very important for me and we have government which are not very keen on these values. And even if you're talking about Hungary I don't know if we can call it democracy this four cities they care about these various earlier this month. The mass presented the letter to the president of the European Commission Silicone d'alene which they called them the EU to allocate funds directly to their municipal budgets bypassing their national governments. The less it was co-signed by a number of other European cities including Berlin Milan and Vienna gave you a free program master. Gay Karachi became mayor of Budapest in October. Beating a candidate from the party of Hungary's far-right Prime Minister Viktor. Audubon of the former members of the pact of free cities. He's arguably under the most pressure in his own country. He explains why their lines is so important to Korat Jones Foreign Affairs Secretary. Thomas Boyer translates for me. I wish et CETERA. Et Al on my festival to Sternum asshole. All these four countries that bre liberated from Communism in eight nine ninety have for a long time being the drivers of Pro European integration luther within the EU. But now the past several years because of political changes in some of the countries it has become a blocking coalition at European level and the mayors of the four capital cities have their for created alliance to show the face of our region and our commitment. Tom Panoramas drilled. Cities can play in shaping and implementing policies is increasing. Also there is a progressive forward-looking electorate so those trends make it possible and necessary so to speak that cities work closer together and want to have a bigger say in shaping policies searching we politically latter shake a little scheme actual seventy full Bratislav. A mayor marshmallow. There is another key element to all of this. We want to copy the good stuff we want to inspire us. Brock is already we inspiring us in many think because we used to be in the same state the very close on this legislation level for example to practice law and of course. Budapest has many fantastic thing and worse over the same so for me. This is very important to learn to see what's happening to see what's not working and for me. This is another level of cooperation. It's too early to tell whether the free mass will have their way but marshmallow is convinced. They're doing the right thing. We are on the bath. Would use multiple difficult that the populism path. We are trying to do too difficult reforms which I'm sure going to pay off but we need time for Monaco and brought Slava. I'm Alexa Cordova. Thank you very much indeed Aleksei. You're listening to the briefing. We're live on multiple twenty four Monaco Rolex. Bring you the pioneers for the founder of Rolex. Hands Wills dove the world was living laboratory. He began to use it as a testing ground for his watches from the nineteen fifties sending them to the most extreme locations supporting explorers who ventured into the unknown but the world has changed as the twentieth century. Unfolds EXPLORATION FOR PURE discovery has given way to a Parisian as a means to preserve the natural world. Rolex continues this legacy of its founder supporting the explorers of day on the new mission to make the planet perpetual. Learn more with the pioneers in partnership with Rolex still to come on the program. We'll be heading to the Bulkin to get a roundup of the News Abbott I. I'm joined in the studio by Monocle. Twenty four page Reynolds armed with an armful of newspapers to go through them for us. How they fade. Hello yes I'm always rustling a little too much so I quite like quite the stories in the FTC. Today firstly a story on trump's visit to India which starts today he's just arrived The headline is India hopes red carpet treatment for trump ease friction with the US so this is his first trip as president to a country. That Washington is now trying to cultivate as this counterweight to an assertive China within the region So that's the Handley Sort of given us five key things to watch for So they include trade tensions Last year Washington stripped Indira. Gt FREE ACCESS FOR FIVE POINT. Six billion of exports to the US of Indian protectionism had had hit US interest. There's going to be some tech talk. Maybe some talk of defense deals as well Washington is looking to sell military hardware. Having souls of over seventeen billion dollars in the past decade Potentially human rights. That's sort of been a question mark over this. Is Trump GonNa make a comment on the Kashmir region? A lot of people saying no. He has sort of fancifully in. Trumpian style agreed to host talks between India and Pakistan. Should that be necessary? Which is astonishing given the article in The New York Times which is rather deliciously said. Trump goes to India to find himself when one goes to India out of magic. Never done it when you get to do. You generally find yourself spiritual self which is a peaceful reconciled pleasant place to find yourself the article but Pankaj Mishra in the in the paper says under Prime Minister Modi. The country is a US president spiritual home in inferno of systemic cruelty. And there's been plenty in the press about the way that Prime Minister Modi is divisive. There are racist massively. Anti religious undertones It's it's one of those things that actually to cruel leaders find themselves happily in the same plane while exactly and I think that that piece in the in the New York Times. It's very interesting in drawing the parallels between Modiin trump The fact that they also have manipulated the justice system in their countries the very anti Muslim rhetoric as well and in fact it said the trump always looks up to Modi as he's sort of found himself in a place where He doesn't even have to convince the sort of cultural and political elite anymore country sort of already convinced so. I think is unfortunate meeting of minds. Let's move onto the Guardian and actually widely reported yesterday in Milan. The highlight of Milan fashion. Week was the most astonishing looking press conference with The woman behind the Fashion House. Prada at seventy one would imagine that. Some people are looking at retirement. Not Her she has teamed up with the Flemish cool calm and collected rough simmons to rather unlikely pairings at everybody's looking forward to seeing this spring summer twenty twenty one collections. And thinking. What are they going to do? Yeah I think I think that's That's definitely a lot of excitement of you know it's very unusual to have a fashion house. Cook Co headed By by two very very strong creatives On particularly Murcia is is seventeen. Now people are sort of questioning with her. Retirement is in view but According to her no not too But I think this is really a really great. Move while this over talion. Fashion houses are a little bit more conservative. Protestants just been pushing through. An and as the Guardian says a bit of a tumultuous time in the last few years They had a crisis in two thousand eighteen with with a race row Thanks to sort of figuring that resembled black face in the New York store. They're kind of coming out of that now. They've pushed with diversity a lot more that appointed of diversity and inclusion officer and I think this next announcement is hopefully going to to the next stage. And it's not the first time the Which year and roughs amounts of work together rough simmons was appointed to be the Creator Director of Jil Sander then owned by product in two thousand and five. So there's some history there as well indeed and there's great ambition to the press statement as well The contract is forever says Prada. Let's have a look. Hey Patriot will thank you very much indeed for joining us on monocle. Twenty four the briefing. Let's head to the Balkans now finally to get around up of some of the weird and wonderful stories making the news. There are no man knows. This patch better than our man in the region guide. Lauren welcome back to monocle. Twenty Four Guy Weird and wonderful what gives well for starters. That's a very big claim. Thank you very much for that. And I'll try and lead up to it And in terms of weird and wonderful at ending anything gets more weird or more. Wonderful than you'll see Pat Lee sats who is the diva of the Western Balkans Emma? She's a legendary singer. She's seventy years old and last week. She sang the Croatian national anthem. At the inauguration of the new president's on Mulanovich Milanovic should personally requested the. You'll see police should the national anthem. She whipped up an interpretation of this this tune which is known as our beautiful homeland and it wasn't just whipped up with anyone whipped up with the acclaimed. Jazz pianist visas. Dan Rouge which But it has to be set and I hope you've got a recording of this ready to roll because It has to be sat emma. The the results produced something of a mall might moment indeed. We're braced other new downloading net. Straight away from my morning. Run with that goodness me guide. Aloni of my is just suffered well. It wasn't the usual bombastic rendition of the Croatian national anthem. But some people accused of of howling like a dog during that renders. He didn't sound right. Well well you should have seen the should watch the video. Actually because it's only really half the performance as you see your supervisor. Tsa's face and indeed her hand and indeed her makeup and indeed her during the performance. It's it's it's the whole package. And she is really going the full diva but you know other people loved it and she she is what she is and many people love her for what she has. I'm but somebody has taken such great offense at that performance of our beautiful homeland that they have filed a criminal complaint accusing her of performing and didn't toning the national anthem of Croatia. In a derogatory way I claiming the suspect used mocking articulations which were not socially acceptable. And believe it or not Amer- you can actually get done in Croatia for insulting the national anthem. It is actually a criminal offense and you can get a year in choky forest. Well I mean quite people would say that bad music often deserves a time in choky and I have seen her hats and yes. It's interesting the putting someone away for being for singing off tone or or not. According to the book does seem to be rather An extreme saw right. Yeah absolutely I think is a British citizens Bearing mind all national anthem the lyrics to it and the dirge which accompanies at extremely thin ice criticizing anyone else's national anthem all renditions thereof but it does show the musicians. Union of Croatia said the term people are intolerant towards different expressions of what it means to be Croatian so there is a serious side to this. The person WHO's made the complaint is not a fan of Zora Milanovic. Chooser center left political. Figure he the person who's made the complaint seems to be more on the Croat nationalist side of things and we have seen these sort of complaints leveled at other people who are not Croat enough for certain people's likings so that this is a nice little cultural we've got going on here finally let stay in Crozier in the minute or so. We've got left to to find that what we're wonderful things are happening in the Balkans the The music may be a little bit strange but the trees are exemplary. Is that right They are indeed or at least they could be. If you cast your voter would you like to cast a vote for European tree of the year? I didn't think I'm allowed to anymore. You're still in the spine to everything. From what options have I got lying ahead of me. Well could you please vote for Adam? Who who was a Gingko Bill Boloba tree in Croatia Day? You govern pronounced as to where it's close together very often and this is a two hundred and forty year old trae which looks like some which could in horror movie reach out. Grab you and ingest you Which is fittingly enough in front of the castle of Count Yankovitch in the Croatian town of Data Var. It's the oldest such tree in the country. It's one of six finalists for European tree of the year. And last time I checked it was running in second place in the popular vote and you can make your vote until the twenty nine th the February. Which is this Saturday fans? If only we knew what was running in first place. We'll have to look it up on the Internet as we republic right okay off. We take I'd alone. Thank you very much indeed joining us on monocle twenty four. That's all we have time for today's program. Many thanks to all my guests. And thanks to our producers Reese James Collateral Bello and Ulan. Gafa are set to Charlie German and our studio manager Louis Allen for now for me Emma Nelson Goodbye. Thank you very much for listening and have a great week.
TFATK Episode 464: Erik Griffin
"Well, we've got the great Eric Quinn coming up, and before we do that. I wanna tell you guys that if you like to laugh, super heart come on down to Indianapolis helium comedy club, June six seven eight, then they'll be Las Vegas. The Orleans showroom Brennan shop, and Brian cow will be there June fifteen and Tempe, improv the Tempe, improv June twenty twenty one twenty two get ready Tempe. Improv Brian gallons, new our that's right. I've got a whole new God, dang our I'm going to be super funny are, and then we should tell we should tell them, what Brennan's dates are actually. Brennan, it'll be in Cleveland, June thirty thirty one and one of June. He'll I'm sorry. No, actually may, thirtieth June first and then we got Burbank. He's at flappers the eighth of June Las Vegas with me the fifteenth of June Calgary. When I am in Tempe. He is in Calgary one of my favorite cities, June twenty twenty one twenty two for big Brown. All right. Guys this my shows you see me on the road. 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I think you'd be surprised. I think you'd be surprised havoc. Kenny fight club bike club bike club kids, get the peace on them on a couple of one to Cutie pies. I still got it baby lift your shield. And now from the honored studios in Playa vista. California is the moment you've been waiting for the final, and the cheese is coming at you. No, no. We're not live. That doesn't make sense. We're not live. We don't. Now it's the father and the kid. Shot live. Live. It's the sound. I mean he has missile them in the back of the room, and Bobby, yes, I'm gonna back the room and he's on stage and I'm like that you just find yourself. I know this joke. You just let each yeah. He's, he's. He's never bad. I think Babacan ObamaCare. One of the greatest comedies ever. He's so fucking. He's just always funny, but it might ruin him if he started writing more you know what? I mean. Like this thing. Yeah. Yeah. It might ruin like the essence of what I wanna know what else is in there. Man, he said he likes doing TV? Yeah. He he'd rather be acting but he should just be the greatest up ever like he should be right. Extent of all human imagine. In fact, I was on a mullet. Too late. They do it now. You're going to kill him. I'd be like Bobby, you're staying in this room. And you will not come out until you come up with new our ten minutes for the day, the day. Oh, oh, you, you, you will not be allowed out until you. Joked that makes me laugh this, let the way works with me. And by the way that you can't do. And by the way, I turn the air conditioning up super high taskmaster over here. You know, so that's what it's gonna follow. You are robbing comedy, the US government. Like, I think they did that to the guy who the Chinese guy who they suspected was selling nuclear secrets to the Chinese, which of course, he, I'm sure he was. And they they kept him in the room and I guess they would just turn the heat way up, and then they turn the air conditioning way up, and it just be these little shuttle subtle thing. You know, you're trying to tell me your motivation tactic is the same as temperature your motivation. I'll be right. Hera. And now the owner tick you enjoy. Right jokes, you shit head, how old is Bobby Asians. You cannot tell he's like seventy eight years old knowing yet. If me forty something? Yeah. Twenty five always order that he's like forty nine yeah. No, he's not going to use. He's gonna wanna seven years old. Oh, god. He looks young. Yeah. Well, no thirty nine damp. Theorems forty thirty nine Joey's fifty six three nights surprise you. A little bit, y'all can't spread. He never talks about his age, unless you always say six how old Rogan fifty to my age. Oh, wow. How old are you? I'm old I'm saying, majors, Bobby. Birt's forty six. On a all old. You know what I mean, not we're not all young whippersnappers like you show. House. Alex Jones only forty five. I know he looks everybody sixty house. Seventy years older than him. His is stressed wouldn't it? Well, I don't know what it is maybe poor eating habits or something. But he's he looks older. I always like to go to Twitter. Right. Just as I like to go to people's Twitter and then see who they recommend. It's always, like I, I, sometimes you're like if you go to your own Twitter, and it says, you might also follow. Sometimes it's insulting. Who they think you're? In. I'm. This all dudes. Well, you pointed that same thing too. Might be interested in this. I really liked chicks. Dig. Why? Well, what are you looking at? That's what I'm saying. Gets fifty percent of porn. Here's addicted anyway. Right. So they're like, Dr is odds are that is going to be a dick in the porn at some I will type into my search engine when I'm talking to Sasso. We're having a conversation about something serious and I'll just type into sexy cowboy are big cock. And just start sending him images from the internet as he's talking. And he'll be like yeah. So I think for the month. Fuck. But then you search histories that. Yeah. I saw I did a food diary, Michelle Waterson. She she was state. You're being be. And she was if her cheese. Housing sweeten and this. She was there's a there's a picture of you and Brian at the house ago. Oh, yes, she goes. Yeah. She goes. You know, sweet she she goes breida's is caulking your face. All this probably. I didn't be I went, which one you have more than one of you. I'm sure which one is it? She was always it on the beach years yet. Oh yeah, Brian's, like throwing his shoes. Oh, yeah. That's a great feature. Photo shops like oh, actually perceiving and bring that up. It's a real, join it took that picture with Joanna pep picture. All you start when you guys were first dating, right? Damn bro longtime ago. That was what I could jump. I was probably forty five I was saying, I think it was forty five years old. When I did that for real. I was forty crowds. No, it's just it's just weird that I was there it is also obviously, my girl took that while somebody superimposed. No, that was me. That's where he's really like eight this do some, you know, sure I said to him to coming to jump really high right now. God, I was a perfect picture. Look at that. She did it with clay Klay. God house with the fuck. God, that's. Barrett hops right there and I'm not mad at danced. When I did ballet and theatre school. Well, that's very rally. It was the first Trump super high, I would jump and do all I could do all the tours as and seven I, I was just she was like the woman is next me from Ethiopia. She goes you jumped so how's it? Yeah, it's news to me. I guess what's great about the pictures that is not a fighting picture because you don't what movie are you about to do? Go in cock, I, which is fighting zoom zoom in shorts. I like them. Where'd you get those you were still live your shaved head, how fucked I was still? Where are you? Still fighting. Yeah, man, I tried to watch the other night on ESPN. Yeah. And I just couldn't do it can figure it out. No. Well, one it was so violent that this guy was getting pummeled and they kept going to the doctor. And then the guy's announcers like I got a skit a piece, a flap skin flat. And I was in the doctor, let him still find that was like, hey staff. Pretty intense. Yeah. It was just so bloody, I was thinking, Rogan, I said, man, this is, you know, and he said, I've seen worse and I was like I can't even imagine. It's pretty. If you've never been in person have you been, you know, I haven't been in. I I it's really weird, those you get you get in, in your to that. You get immune to that. What's really, we watch it? No, no. Because what they you start looking at something different like you're looking at their skill. You're you get more of a cultivated I to see what God who wing. So then you're like you're so excited about the fight, and you want to see how they match how so much of that it seems like they're trying to solve each other puzzles like you have to solve the fight guy in front of you has a game plan you have a game plan and you have to figure it out. I think what you're talking about is like, when you watch gymnastics, and then you hear that announcers saying things, and you're kinda like fuck you're talking about. Like I was like that stuff, so brutal. But like my buddy, Eric coke. He's a UFC fighting he's got to fight coming. And he's like he said, I want you to you. She come be my corner, you know, like like walk in with him. And it'd be into corner, like I'm mic experience. I don't know because I feel like I'm gonna throw in the towel. L intensive looks intense. I don't know. Is that what you got out of it is that hard? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Coach Hughes's area. Yeah. So he's got like you know because he's update. He's like he's like just turned thirty. He's been five for. He's still chains out of Milwaukee, he actually opened up his own. Of training place with his brother. What's he find out there hero and became like this dime piece, because you still have the shaved head looks like American history? X for though he has a man bun. Wait, fifty five. I have no idea. But he's got fight coming up. If you go to. Down at five forty five. Now, I'm not sure who is fighting but he's got to fight coming. I might go to I think it's going to be candidate Defoe. It's so weird. Outstanding I was at where was it maybe Easterns Jim, and I was gonna take a shower, and I was standing next to Neil Magny, who fights at one seventy and I'm way, one seventy and I we were both in our underwear, and I looked at me and then I looked at him in the mirror. He six what was I six three six three? Maybe. Yeah. Just I mean he's thin but he's just still frame is still so much bigger. It was just so very much seventy. So they're going to cut. They crazy amounts where he said, I'm one seventy for about fifteen minutes. Yeah, right. True. Once I feel I feel worse when you see somebody who's, like six ten in the NBA. They're like, two twenty five and I'm six three at two or. Dear you win. Carlos boozer needs to be three hundred pounds twenty five twenty five. Yeah. But some people have a frame where you go like Carlos boozer probably as ten percent body fat. He's on a plane with me, and I was he was putting his bag up. And I looked at his where his ass was and where his legs were. And then I looked at his forearm and how long thick you situations. We are examining men's bodies, six to sixty five to sixty five all your story start with, like, so I'm in my underwear with this other guy or this other guys asked him. Him. I'm gay man, almost I we're, we're in establishing. I'm kind of on the little gay are appreciative of. I get it. I want you on though. One of the reasons was, I was doing bobby's podcast and I didn't know he cancelled. Yeah. He told me he was supposed to come to my podcast and he's like I'm doing his podcast, first he's going to do his podcast. He's and he's gonna come over after an on fucking air on his podcast. He calls me he called he faced on live on air, but originally, he's like, I just don't feel like going, and then he calls, you and says his died. And they he thought he'd give shifts but air such a good dude goes damn. I'm sorry about that man. Do you need anything? I'm being like that. And Bobby fell way Wor. Yeah. Everyone's like Bobby lie about his uncle nine no die by twenty five years ago. So in his mind, he's like I didn't lie ever. Have you ever done that have you ever used a fake dead relative to never death? Oh sickness accident just kidding. Kit a lot for cygnus kit. Sick can't make it tonight. You know, kid works, then you don't wanna wish him bad. Luck can't find a sitter. Can't find a sitter always Dale. Parking lot put a piece of shit. You know what I mean? How about how about this, but he did it feel. He's still came and did it. Yeah. People asked me to do their podcast. And I'm like, now, I'm like, no. I don't want to without becomes a thing where it's like this four things I don't want people to ask me, okay, don't ask me to help you move. Real friends. Don't do that. Go fuck yourself. Are you don't eat pizza? I don't need like you know what I mean? I don't drink beer soda, whatever you're going to offer you like I could get myself asked me to help you move. What can you help me move fifty five thousand dollars? Exactly, exactly. He's like, you know his. But here's the thing, though, visiting people go. I'll act. Let's say ask you guys to help me, move the next step is I go pay for it. So why don't you just pay for it? Okay. So don't ask me to help you move. Don't ask me to take you to the airport. Okay. Hooper. Are you kidding me? Pass for moves walking bro. You mind. Just run me the airport. Yeah. No, I wouldn't do that, too. And I'm right here. Never never have to knock. I had to go to the airport from here, and it would be it would be wait. Ten minutes. I can't even to them. I'm like. Don't get them. I refused out. You see this real trends. Don't ask them thinking of a day, when there was no over, like say ten years ago. That was the thing where you'd be like, hey, can, you know, so I don't want, I'm not taking you to the airport. Okay. Out of the I even I'm not picking you up either. I don't want him. The other one is I don't wanna read your script. Don't give me scripts, you know what I mean. Like fuck you and your script because that happens a lot, you know. Hey, can you check out this, like no, no like this is because you know why? Because this is hyphenated. I don't wanna be descript. And I don't wanna go to your play. People giving you books. I keep getting books any. That's what I'm saying it all. And he'll give me your book, don't give me your book, don't give me your play. You know, I I don't wanna I don't want to. Yeah. I don't wanna read your scrip and other one is like I don't wanna go to your play. I don't want to go to your. Well, also come to my come to the movie, I wrote and directed. Oh, that no one is ever going to. Oh tiny and I'm having a screening over Johnny fucking squeaky, and fuck you screenings or the word. Hey, man. I'd rather do. The dentist, a talk after to talk to if you wouldn't mind being part of the key. Script. And then the last one is, you know, getting to the point where you'd be like I don't want to be on your podcast. It's hard for me to say that because they have a podcast I asked people to be on my podcast, but that's a certain level of life podcast. You're like Erik Griffin. I know. But it's like it's weird because sometimes people do they hit you up. And they're like, hey, can you see it is a commitment to contest? Yeah. Well, how run your own or do you go on so going to go on like to go on someone's podcast like you don't know the person which also using your energy, and like you have your own show. So. Oh I need it for you. Is I've had this. Can you do my pocket? Whereas it, well, so we do it at we do it at four in the valley. And I would rather talk show Bobby goes dude. It's people, but asset for what took so long with you. Do on Mondays Bobby Mondays at seven pm north. We know why started doing it at home. I started doing it at my place is because I, I was going off his comedy. I'm still all things comedy. But they they're studios in Burbank, and so many people films this show. Right. So me to do it. They're like I can't get a good time. So I'm asking people to come at, like six o'clock, never, you know, never app, six PM. I asked him to come to, you know he he was ready. He didn't want to drive to Burbank so much that he was going to set up my podcast at my place. How bring someone we'll bring cameras would do this. Actually push me over the edge to do it at home. Yeah. Anything to get out of that. I, of course, I wanna do it and get it. But guys. This is a nicer. I it's a nightmare. We talked for a living. So I talk I do to podcasts on Monday. I do my a lot, then we do this podcast and Wednesday. I got stand up at night and I'm on the road. So it's like I'm sitting here talking, I'm sick of myself talking a little longer on Sonos podcast. I it's a lot. I get it that being said when you guys come in. Clock. We know we had a good time to it's called refund with Griffin. Grid. Check it out dot com. Yeah, I haven't seen I have the voice, you know, that'd be voice of an angel, but you'd say some calm, I didn't know you could sing. Whoo. Do. No. Wow. Your hair? Why actually him actually good thing. Who? Have a good voice the good into it. That's what my guess. Yeah, I do all this stuff myself. So I still need help. I don't have a nice nerd to help me out. I made the west myself I need a nerd, I need, you know, power, I need a power nerd to come in, but it's fun to learn. You know, YouTube is great. You wanna learn how to use logic or final cut pro and everyone go on, like, how do you like prep sound settings for podcast? And then a guy comes on the screen, and he's like I do this. But I didn't ask you what's the advance, you signing with all things comedy. Like, why would anyone sign with them? I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm just saying, Phil Bernau silver because like Bill. It's just a supportive community. That makes they don't take any of your ad money. They don't take anything like that help you get the help you get things going in there. And then, so they have the content on their page to help push out the things they are doing. Yeah. So it's like I don't see any disadvantage. I mean at this point right now we're all like our own company with my two of my favorite comics canal. No. Yeah. Forget, how amazing magical is he's always been a base. Easy. They're trying to be pro, pro comedian worry like doing our own thing. I mean, in this day and age of podcast. We're, we're like one degree away from our, our fans, or just like write it like somebody could find you and now they are one away from you. Is it pretty amazing? Time to live in. Oh, I was talking to him as a team high say's last name, Anwar, Ibrahim, ISM beasts of a comic. He's so fucking good as asking. I'm like you're in a weird spot is not like. Comics in bringing you on the road. You're better than ninety nine percent of them. So it's not like they have opened up from because you've got a wreck the room so weird spot. And he goes yet, and then he and I don't really he doesn't do the road because I really don't like doing the road either. He's also this day and age with comedy. He made a good point which time on us. He made a good point. He goes the day and age of going into a city doing press and sound tickets. That's really not. That's not how comic does it these days, not building a fan base that, even though they still old try to pretend like it still. Can you do? Chaos one seven five radio. I'm like, but for do. Do the road with the fuck. Is he talking about? He just say, we're talking about that. It's not that he doesn't want. Does it want missing the point be he? He doesn't think you're going to you're not going to become a major star by Thrashers. Yeah. Well, it used to be that you got you built your fan base on the road. And then you gotta go to this town. Yeah. Do it. I mean you can still build a great road career. You know, but again, he's not bringing you win the case. Yeah. Yeah. He's, he's saying, like you're right repeated a podcast where you can connect with the fans incident holidays. That's what you're competing with. So that's how you sell tickets. Yeah, you're right. All of a sudden, in not even it's not even TV anywhere. They almost like they've separated. There's all these different lanes. You know, there's a social media influencers who do like, you know, one minute of something. And then they've, they're the ones that are most successful. You know, it's true. And then you have like the comics and stuff like that. And then now you have, you know, he was the head writer of the goat face show on comedy central it was actually funny, all all Arab cast, you know what I mean? So they have some funny sketches on their he's so funny, man. Yeah. Man, do your thing. And he's Afghans not Arabic. Big difference, everybody. Oh, sorry to see you know what if what's the difference? It's just a different language, and they don't identifies Arabic Arabic Arabs speak Arabic, and I've gone, speak 'push tune, they speak Dari, they speak learning. A new thing here. Farsi. It's like, but they wouldn't it be like, like, but I'm saying, like if you say like literally, like it's like, comparing Persians, too, when you call a Persian and Arab. It's like calling. It's, it's, it's like calling Chinese person Filipino or even more different. I mean, it's a completely different culture, completely different language in a completely different history. There you go in different food in every aspect of the word. It's so funny. They're, they're they same religion, primarily Shia Muslim, and most other Arabs are SUNY Muslim. But I don't want to go into the details because I'm too smart for that right now. We don't wanna lose. Better. Brennan, Eric you staring at. Grinds going through this guy. He's a guy at the party that always wants to make you feel stupid. That's what Kristalina price price being boring. Hey, look Brian talking about science science. Chris could give shit about handing right? He's never read a book. He's like, oh, God. Bryant booker. He read one book, I think it was this book. He read a book to they turned into a movie was about fire out firemen, who starts fires did he go? And he went to high school in the no college. Correct, sir. He he didn't go to college. He goes, I know. But it's so hard to do. He only lives to make people laugh well and good as long as you can get right? Right. Yeah. Yeah's masters in it seems to be working school. He's actually very disciplined about super the things he chooses to. He's super disciplined. Thanks good working out now. And he's getting big wasn't he he's always working out now never use digit through for like six years. Yeah. Yeah. He works out when he was on TV worked out a lot. He just didn't get a crazy. Now's he's working out like a crazy. Oh, he is. Now. He's working on it. But when you have that kind of money and you become a recluse. Crazy person you know what I mean. It's always been, he's not gonna know how to go to the ATM any more. It's going to be that guy. You know what I mean? One time he was his house, and he's completely naked, and he has just dick is there. And he goes, he goes, I'm sorry. Sorry about what to do. He did go to college. He's a New York University. He's kind of he dropped out after sensibility after you going believe. Believe wikipedia. No, he did. Because I heard him on armchair expert with Dax Shepard conducts brought up. He went to college in. That's how I remember. Oh, wow. We just sit here. We'll read it as we rain. Like, okay I feel like calling him speaker and asking them to explain his fucking college. His call ask him as college days about his college. We just check it up on. We wanna make sure we don't believe that you would. We don't. No ask him if his dad paid for him to get into New York University. Ask him if he's stressed out that you're going to find his dad paid for his degree to get into, if you paid for scores. Hey Chris, don't be you're on the podcast right now. Don't be a dick. Don't say so don't do that. Listen. I want to ask you a question. I we're looking at your with a PD pays I'm here with Erik Griffin. With Brennan child. Yeah. Yeah. I know. You know, those guys, okay? They're not full white, but it doesn't matter. Is it? I mean do waitressing into a racial thing. All right. Listen to it says, here that you attended New York University. Now, obviously, no. He goes, there you go. We know you didn't have the grace again. So are you nervous that they're going to find out your dad paid and bribed your way into the college? You think you're going to be caught up in the scandal. Honestly, I got in there, why? Because when I because I didn't have the grades and I went in, I went into acting school and I went in and I did a monologue and they threw their hands up and they said, there's nothing we can do to keep them out. I have trouble believing that. So you attended near university in their theater department. Accent? Coma, insert blood and. I don't do. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. All right. Fine. I guess. All right. Talked in and out of character. I know what are you doing now? You just are you at a coffee shop or are you driving to a coffee shop? Coffee. I'm going from the coffee. So I just thought the coffee shop. I'm going to come going off. You. What are you going to do there? Besides beyond your phone. What do have you ever heard of a little thing called whatever? The fuck. I. Well, you know, that you're pretty, you're Reverend, I mean, shouldn't you have you, we were talking you read? You've read a book, right? Tons of books dude. It's ridiculous. Give me five right now. You have ten seconds. The client. Brain maker and drama to strain. Oh John all say. This is Craig. What's it fucking matter to you? And some dean koontz. Okay. Well, congratulations. Almost finished nineteen Eighty-four that classic book. So fuck you do it. I don't who wrote it who wrote it who wrote nineteen four, don't Google it. George Orwell Georgia's now not bad. Okay. Now. So do you have any advice for anybody who has a dream young people who are trying to make either in Hollywood or in the world? Dude, you got. Yeah. Okay. So here's what young advice for young people. Yeah. Dude, fucking honestly, don't even get in the same room is Bryant Cowan because that shit fucking rubs off on you. That's fucking Augist don't even get in the same room as Brian count, because that shit rubs off on you. Anything else? The phone go because I know it didn't matter. I knew it didn't matter. Listen, bro. Yeah. You disrespect. So, you know, through, you know, guys just so, you know, you listeners, definitely Brian, I didn't know I was going to be on the podcast. That's how I answer. The phone is still because it doesn't fucking matter. Dude. I'll take a flat handier face. I really will grow. I'll do what your dad should've done to you. When you're a boy. Yeah. Well, what are you going to do? You'll tell me not to forget ever. Listen to Brian coun-, Puckett, telling me. All right. Well, listen, man, the United real, dad. We'll talk to you later, right? No. Mocking sat these YouTube talking about odd couple. That's the odd couple, I wanna see. So funny, I'm gonna FOX this fall. We're working on a TV show, actually. But you already on a TV show can shows you and a half. The problem with your arrest talented. Well. There's no time in the day, which I did. How many TV shows do you want, though, be smartest route to go? Well, the problem is, we know where the money is. It's in podcasting. Yeah, it is. Not for everybody. We gotta be number one. You've got to be number one on the call sheet. Has so much money so much work. Yeah. So I love school. I love her, but I work with and I'm so happy to be there. But well just just when when that eventually runs, its course, don't be surprised if old Bri is solely a podcast and stand up comic. Right. Surprised you're not like breaking news. Well, I've been trying to be an actor for so goddamn tunnel. You've been actor for so long. You know you were on Rita shit little work. Yeah. Free Ribas my favorite credit. We look, Brian REBA. I feel like you haven't stopped working this year. Is when I but then I started doing a podcast, but I mean I feel Hollick's on blunt talk is on. Go from a movie about that Sandler movie. I did theater or did I just did I I'm from LA? So we here in LA acting classes, and that kind of stuff. That's how people don't realize studied, like acting. He studied singing he studied, Dan. He did all that. But he was like he's like it's like the delays were like the Jacksons. Just not known is up for eight at work with his debt. Yes. That's eight. Oh, yes. That is a serious producer director. And I remember, God love, his dad. Is that way? Is that Brian right there? Play a buzzard on REBA REBA is a beautiful. But once you look like that, look, well, I was a young rough rough kick ass. When I just got out of jail. That's when you were Brendan shop. Reba where she lost her entire band to a plane crash. Do you know that? I don't so she fled us. She has read so I stopped doing separate plane and her entire fucking band. I think she'd been with forever were killed. She flying separate planes. She had she had a thousand appearance ahead thought it was like, I'm going to go in the private jet. When you're on spirit, Iran, trying to drive a plan. I believe. Wow. You allow these plane crashes you hear about a lot of them are most private jets, and they're not taking care of what the taking care of this. The regulate three hundred planes get fucked up. If they're coming. One father worked for CitiBank. They were talking about getting planes, fly sixty thousand feet in the air because six five thousand type of the Lear jet. Yeah. But the reading when go really high as it, there's the thinner, sue. So you save on gas, you go faster. Right. They're going to get these. And there was a guy who is a I guess he was an aviation scientists there. And he, he was also working in the Bank. And he said is sixty five thousand feeding is I wouldn't do it and they all go home. We cheaper and everything. Now, I know it's just you lose cabin pressure, sixty five thousand feet blood boils at room temperatures. And everybody went. Let's not do the sixty five thousand feet. Looking at from my for my broken heart. All of those people tour manager museum, fiddle Qatar vocals, keyboard. They all that one two, three four five six seven eight eight of her people. That's all for all all of her band. Think about that. That's fucking too, but is terrible for down. Thanks for that. How you bring up you. And workaholics. There you go. I was my fault. I brought. Reema did I love your holiday is still going on man. That's a great show. It's it is still going on, because people are still catching it for the first time when they look at it on Netflix, or whatever it is. Right. Still watching, you know, like in my building. I live right now. This is so funny. There's two guys he's to really extra Asian guys here saw the movie. Oh, it's so funny on the shore. Yeah. I mean, that's actually my first scene, I ever filmed, the workaholics is that one right there in the yellow shirt, you already look funny. It's so buddy. Teach you did you enjoy dying up here. Did you ever recurring role on that or no no? I was a regular a regular on that. It was different. That's the season that I got skinny. Skinny for the show because like you see yourself on TV and you go God damn. Zack is going on. So I came into that season. And I was like, I'm gonna be Montanez is coming in skinny, but then, you know, what's funny is like, Adam, I was getting skinny I was putting post up in an atom from Adam Devine. He he'll never forget that he texts me Heyman. We hired a fat guy, not a skinny hipster. My bet. That's so bad you right? I told him I say yo do the funniest not there, the funnies here in the brain. No alternative what the face my funniest right here. Okay. Yes. Is when you chunky whatever. But like, I'm you know what I mean? This is my funny. This is what comedy's supposed to look like cool. But also stay fat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, look at you. You, you prefer. If I give you one choice, acting or stand up man, that would be hard, that's a real hard thing to side. But if I had to decide than I'm gonna decide stand up but it'd be really hard. It'd be God be given up something like acting that much. Yeah. Because because because stand up is it's like you can't break the fourth wall in a sense of like it's not. I wanna be four dimensional. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, when you're with other people interacting, like this, it's different. It's like good and your improvise. Yes. And you let you feeding people's energy when you were stand up the only you're only seen partner is the crowd, and you have to like, you know, they have to somehow come together as a unit and great. It's great. I love it. Like I said, I would choose that. But damn like acting is just this is something rewarding about it, too. They take it somebody else's words, and then bringing it to live. There's just something about that. That is like magical not everybody the script and shit. Make fresh. Yes. Yes, exactly. You know what I mean? That's why people love you. You know, you see Shakespeare and you'd like see different people do it. And it's just like a great thing to watch somebody. That's fantastic at it. So, so. So what Shakespeare was always done very stylized. And you're always doing it this way with the language was everything, and you spoke in the subway with the mic pentameter, and then there was a motherfucker named Raul. Julia Puerto Rican guy. Big dude. Handsome from New York and classically trained, and nobody seen a Puerto Rican bring his Puerto Rican flavor, flavor and his passion. His Latin Hispanic left that too. And he was he did taming the shrew with Meryl Streep in fucking God. Damn Shakespeare in the park in that motherfucker right there and Shakespeare in the park, he died of a heart attack. He's great. Oh. Yeah. Dude that base out of family and you see him right there. That's what he looked like Shakespeare thing. And that motherfucker did it. And he's great. He brought shit to that role and I remember watching going oh shit. Shakespeare. Oh my God. His like you know I my the way he was doing. It was like I forget he was just so good in Iraq. And why? He was a phenomenal. Actor fucking people. Role. Julia could fuck and have a heart attack right on the spectacle. It's such a bummer because he was such a beast. He was not a good. Actor great actor kiss. The Spiderwoman played a game in. I mean he just did it all he did. That's, that's due back in the day. He'd never stopped acting never stopped doing theater. Never something age. But see, this is five. But this is what I'm saying. Like, you know, you wanna be like say, what kind of clear, do I wanna have I wanna have a crew much like you just continue? That's like every transformer movie. Like, you know, you're that general that comes out, you know, you I wanna be that guy. Like I'm always do you know what I mean? We're like, I know that guy headed a caved in one time, you'll get that one. You know, who's like that was his name. Oh, he won for the drummer movie. What's the white guy, bald? He's in his. He's our he's the guy that he works. All I worked on stop. I think it's that role that they breaks out. That's what I want. I worked with our with a gun is and I was there and he did a scene. And he says to the guy his wife the guy, he's been brutalizing in prison. His wife killed herself. And he goes like this. He goes, here's your mail, and he goes, and I hear your wife. He starts laughing coughed ourselves and he starts to laugh, and he was a place of sadistic Nazi. And I remember being lucky young after going. I don't know how to do that. How the fuck you talking about on Oz on? Is he going to bear whereas all muscular holding? Oh, god. That looks scary playing playing some weird. Buffs Santa Claus right there. I don't know if I don't like it's like Santa in autumn rid of that he's planning Santa's doctor was, like you got to get your shit together or you're not gonna make probably he's probably playing a fuck in. He's probably playing some some kind of a steroid dealer. This is what I think, has Brian dad would look like you know what I mean. Now, my dad's just giant, but you, you played that your grandpa, you played. Play some serious roles like in. I'm dying up here. Some of that shit. Yeah. It was it was very, very serious, like it wasn't that shows not that funny. Yeah. That show wasn't like it's all a comedy. I think that's what I think that's the problem with I think we got cancelled because we delivered a show that they didn't want that Showtime day while. Yeah. But also in the book, like I love the book, I'm dialup. It's amazing book on the evolution of the, when my weird wig who wrote it. Forget got the guy's name, but he's alive. You know what I meant? I was on the street by the improv. Okay. And his some random ladies like, hey, you know what my client wrote? I'm dying up here. You know and he hates it it's, it's such a said he hates it, but your his favorite character said to me the problem with it is like it doesn't portray like, how much fun, the comics had back, then it made it very dark like it was almost dark, dark times, though that no. Yes. And no pack. I know her she, she directed an episode. There's a guy right there in the middle William William that's him. He's the author. I had a really great time doing. The show was very rewarding to be a serious actor, you know. And it's so now it's like I wanna see, you know what more I can do with that, in that world cool man, you know, in that you can an act is Santino. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's really good in that. We were we were both like just fish out of water. Both guys were like, really good in it. I remember seltzer together going auditions. Remember the days when you used to go on auditions, I know you probably don't even go on on that many auditions anymore. I still go on our dishes. But acting additions are always so serious that people that people in the room like even even when you're going out for a comedy you come into the room and everybody's just. You know it's like what are you doing relaxed actually when it's a high profile? Oh my God. And you walk in there, and they're like this, their, their English the worst of the English like he'd just it'd be some fucking English director and all right, guys. All right. Can we all just calm down? You go in there and they may. Don appears like when I walked into the test, you know, Santino sitting there and then we saw each other rule like oh, what's up man? We just were laughing and having a good time and everybody else around us just nervous and like pacing. And it's like do you to go in and you just want to be relaxed? You know what I mean? Only commercial auditions were were not to get nervous for the final one. We don't have to just don't fuck up. But Santana's good. Actor. I still gotta be in that, Al, that was hair like that there's still going to be cool and relaxed though. Now the first season the Whigs situation in the first season was terrible. They didn't put a lot of money into wig budget. And for something like this, you have to be wearing a wig there. Yeah. Here here, here actually, like he was hair out. He was a nightmare for him because he had to look like that. Like all the time I remember doing. I remember set to the store, and he hasn't Jesus Christ. 'til that. Yeah. But we, we had a really great time when you found out, it was over. We guy said, yes, because I felt like they could I feel like they should have given us another season. And that's when it really would have taken off. But it was just so many things on on the outside. What is now the second that's the second season. And now that wig looks better, because it looks more like my hair, like it could be my hair. You don't take it when he gets cancelled because obviously, it's completely out of your control school gets cancelled. Yeah, but you have if you have personally. On you. But if you have a character that you love and you love the second death. These guys are dead about all your. What happens is you get you get you spend every day for nine months with the same crew cast and crew, you missed the crew. Yeah. Is you're always working together. And you work until twelve at night, friend. Yeah, yeah. It was really kind of guy he's the kinda got it's going to be around the grips with the with the Hawaiian shirt, guys, you wanna hand if the guys hang with the groups, I mean, think about this show to the had to smoke those fucking nasty ass. Fake cigarettes move. The worst man I need to watch it. I never I didn't see. What, what? So what did Jim Carey have to do with it? Right. Yeah. He produced it. But, like actually, I wish it wasn't called them dying up here because then people have this expectation that's going to be like the book and the stories were really based off Jim Carey's own. It's his own stories. It was like, you know, he lived in a closet when he first came to LA, he had fights in the parking lot. He it was all about his own personal stories. I just wish the motherfucker would have been on the show like and be on the show. If you're involved in it being like four fucking episodes, and then he wants to then he's in his other show kidding just be on our show. I remember when I was doing mad TV. And it was it was the thing to do to make fun of Jim Carey and talk about how unfunny he was. I never forgot this. That's. It's fucking comics. And I was like a my living in a crazy world could do. He can do everything you motherfuckers can do and better, and for any any language. That's everything, right? Be like, if like if you went to Drake's it's Graham right now right post his new single. He's the most famous musician on planning. So it's easy to Brazil you. But that's what people that's the crab mentality. We were gonna hate on Drake there. You see a shitload of comets, but he by like, Jimmy Jerry Ray burst on the scene. He's the fucking but he kind of trouble. The hey so good. No. Let's go. Yeah. Because he he eight a picture about abortion. It was an abortion picture. And then you just like it was like a little bit weird taste. Miss the Mark of what he thought it was going to be, you know what? I mean. He lost. He went a little crazy, right? No. But my thing is because he's not a normal person anymore, when you if you're that rich that he drew that picture right there. And then he just got some flack, you know, I had a had a reference to him in my stamina's stand up special on Showtime. And they took it out really he'd be offended by it. They're trying to keep him. Don't get interesting, right? Yeah. That's a legal thing. Right. They do that with legal. No, no. It's just he's on the network, and how they don't want like, but I I it was actually I've see if he's at home. I've seen how anybody's talking about me love him, beloved him saying how I loved him. My dad didn't love him because he was like tough this ROY did this gym that person right there, though. When he was going through all this. I mean he went through a tough thing man. He's being sued by his ex's family. She killed herself. They were blaming him or the because they say she killed herself, because she had herpes because of him that you heard the story, though, you know, and this thing, and it all it all turns out to be. Yeah. But it's like a it's all. Drugs. He's like, hold up. Hold up when, when I met her, she was suffering, manic depressive, cly that you think because we broke up and you know, she did a few issues with mental percent. Brilliant. He's brilliant. Don't don't have that beard, but he's brilliant. Letterman lately. Yeah. Do we have when you're that rich and famous? And you just like you had to you had to be like, you had to be like locked in at all times for thirty years now. It's time to be like fuck you, let me spend this money and you grow so nasty. Looks like it's the Santa Claus thing, but. Let's just shave that he looks like he was in court Lincoln tunnel show. Ryan beat me. They look like he was like going Lincoln four school. I don't know. It's a bummer when you see that snow man now man, but he has a show on Netflix is Connie on there that I think it dropped soon is. How I thought it was supposed to be on Rogan and he'd never do that. He is. But yeah he did it. My favorite was the way of the gun. It rugged Connie called Rogan. They're, they're trying to figure it out. But what is there to figure out, you just go to the motherfuckers place and you do it? Why? You're worried about the it's sensitive. Talk about see still worried about it. We're not me. Worry he may not know how to articulate himself just yet. Sometimes you're like, do I want to as I'm saying that he can't get onto Orne? He doesn't care. He wants to do. He wants to do rolling wants to do. Oh, so what, what are you trying to figure out schedules? He wants to do it and they're just trying to schedule your hurt thing, a little bit different than that. But maybe but, but most people don't have the Wordstar ticket their position. That's why people say, things like woke, when you say when you say you're woke is because you don't have the worst articulate. Your woke is the new word. I hear this is really idiots. Woke is the new basic. It's like when people say, that's like this. That's a basic but you can use it for any position. Correct. It's yeah. It's like it's like say I'm pro choice, you know why? Because I'm woke. Yeah, I'm pro-life why you know why? 'cause I'm that sensor easy way. That's right. Tareq are 'cause even just did this panel on men and masculinity. And these guys. Guys, we're talking about toxic mass Linnea how we have to lose our aggression, and we have to be more emotional. I was like holding. Nobody said there's a really good site, aggressive masculinity. If it's channeled in the right way, Steven Jobs was super aggressive. He just channeled it in the right way. When you channel ended up picking up a gun, and shooting people who disagree with you. That would be that's not good. But there's a lot about being a man being competitive being aggressive wanting to win that if it's channel in the right direction gives you great sport gives you great innovation. I people, but it's also very everything may get anywhere being demonized, it's your be like men are men are, you know. And they speed about men and such a terms like toxic, your hierarchy patriarchy. It's like, hey man. I'm a little bit more complicated. Matt, right. By the way, when people say this about, like look at aggressive things like sports, like how many times, I've been watching these UFC fights, I guess, just to check it out, because I know you like air coca podcast with him worse. Fire team we play video games. But anyway, like, what I watched us now there's a lot of emotion in it lately of went went to guys just an bond. I love that. This is what I'm saying to guys. They fighting fighting fighting like literally looks like they're trying to kill each other. Right. When shoot is over they embrace, and you could see the guy like the respect. He's like you earned. Yeah. You could see the one that even the one that wins he looks at the other guy like you push me to the limit your, there's, there's a certain thing that goes on there. But men cry around sports all the time. And it's such a masculine thing hug and they. Man, but anyone who's done anything, whether it's football players quiet football player, whether it's a fighter, whether it's a comic who's doing well on the road to native hater whoever raises a business. Correct. It's so competitive to that level you need your dog. I mean you fuck. You can't be that emotional invulnerable make it. You're eating a life, I come into the boardroom. And we're trying to we're trying to compete, and we're trying to come up with a better way to argue your point I go. Hey, brandon. I'm right today. Guys, can you watch the way you speak 'cause I'm feeling a little sad and phone Rable? What, what, what happens if we came in the boardroom, and you have this brilliant idea, and you go to put out now I think this and you don't argue your point like I don't like controversy. I'm just going to back right point complaint to human resources the fuck out. I'd be like, hey, bro. Hold on. Let me finish this fight for your idea. That's what they do. They just throw the best idea out there and you have a war of ideas, even with comic so that you see certain comments that you let us go through fighting for the further stage time, they're fighting on the road there, fucked. You're finding was ration especially, like I wanna see, like when I watch Bill Burr, he's angry. And he's talking about shit. We're all laughing our ass off because he's got a strong point of view that's trying to dominate other point with its beauty points of views yet, but also go up to Bill when he was young ago, had no, you're supposed to ten mind. If you just do aches, I'm going to do twelve you go, the fuck out of my face. Right. Because the competition right? He if there's toxic masculinity is they're toxic femininity shore. Look, I think what they're talking about is this, I think usually when people talk about equality or they talk about making the world more fair, what you hear a lot from these, these particular groups. I think what they're talking about is the idea that they don't want to be bullied controlled, or oppressed by somebody who's in power that didn't earn it. Or somebody is our that was. Just put their I understand their bully me. But at least give me the opportunity to say, I would say a tuck city I mean masculine toxin toxicity or toxic masculinity, which was invented term. That's very recent. I think any time any group and I promised you with women. It's the same thing when women get power when men get power when one groups gets power. And there's another group. That's Volna Rable. They're gonna take most of the spoils, did you are way harder on women. Then they aren't Kathy Griffin on Howard Stern because she went through that whole Trump thing. Right. And she was banned from all these things they were asking her about it, and she, she goes, I'm such a feminine feminist. But this I mean, to say it, she goes, I was so jealous, because when guys get in trouble like the Louis C K, or these guys get trouble the men for whatever reason group around in the become a team not that they're defendant. But they they support him at the best. They can. She was not, not one female support me. No one choose it's worse for defensive females though. Like. It can't be we don't just I don't think it's the same. That was a terrible joke. It was terrible should she lose her mental? But here's the thing living off of it. They would check it out if sixty million people like someone and you have a severed head of that person there's going to be backlash there's going to be backlash which I think she knows she has she bounced back from that or no. Yeah. She's like doing a special about it. She's been talking about she does a torn she out, she can come. That's what how she's back. That's what those are. The whole thing on Howard Stern she's back. Yeah. But. What I'm saying. I don't think that that's necessarily the same. I don't know if those two things are quite you know, like you know what happened with Louis and what? Things about example. So let's, let's say Brian did the same joke. Let's say Brian, not that he would let's say Brian do the same joke all the guys around. Brian are going to form we're going to support Qasim. I might not agree with not gonna eat in a back me up one hundred percent of men. They say that men, what's really really important to men. There's a book called the way of men by Jack Donovan that this woman was just telling me about, and he did. Yeah. Men, what's really important, man, apparently is to have this, these loyalty bonds in small groups. I might be, but like loyalty you need your group. It's really borderline, and they have their group of men around them like we poured it like. I see that in the podcast market. Yeah. There's a there's a group that Royden group. We're loyal like you. Like, if I'm if I might fuck with them, and we might have arguments, whatever. But if I was in a group of dues or people, and they started going bad on him going, I, my instinct is immediately my brother's keeper. What happens I'm never gonna I'm never going to, especially if it was a public thing say, I was on a public forum, somebody started bashing Rogan or, or Brandon or you. You're, you're all my in my I my instinct would be to fight right away. Not fight physically. But I finally to be like, whoa. Fuck faces I go on the offense. And that's very that's very common from it very common when you have a team of dudes that you or. Probably hard wired for it. We probably could we came up from as in bands having a hunt having a fight. And I think that's really as part of our genetic may see, I find that, like, have you have, you been around you have you been around female sports like sports team, not much like I used to like coach WNBA tickets. I used to really well. Are you a groupie absolutely Hilarion? You'd be a good group for that, though kidding. I feel like. You know. Well, I gotta tell you man, like fee sports chick, like a super sports chick. I mean, you wanna talk about focused and like, like they, they are I just think that they had that same thing, the ones that decide to go in that area. What do you mean? Well, I used to coach both coached boys. And I've coached girls what level like grammar school high school, you know. But like with boys you could be like your momma, should never had you with that defense. Right. You know what I mean? You could say that you know what I mean that, that would girls. Now, this all you have to say, I'm so disappointed with how you play today certain you can do certain kids to add up, but I'm saying, but during reaction yeah, it's so different like you like you can't, I can't tell a girl like shut up. It is a different highbrow when you're in a relationship with the woman, I mean one of the things about being married or any kind of relationship. I have a point of view. I wanna make right. How you've seen this. Exactly if I say, no, dude, you're not then what I'm saying. Listen to what I'm saying, and he's like, what we argue about the point if I do that, too known if I might tone, so the whole podcast, too much about you, and I say he's just it's just even like like doing stand up. Yes, we can't do all I just got out of a relationship. That's how if this type of shit I can't. That's how I talk. They're making a portal erupt. We're yellow each other yelling it. So I do this on. I'm not prying cow like. How on the phone that you like you're not on your podcast right now? That does not get a Mike out right now. So we can talk on your put this on YouTube do bitch. I'd like to view. I actually my, my dad's name, okay. Mike allen. I'm like. Raise your dad, right. Martin this, I do this. So she, she was comparing me to some sh she was saying she knows being a little rich kid or something, right? Oh, why that gets my trigger because. On my own. I know I do this I go. I go like this apparent, I started going to go, okay, let let's get one thing. I'm a fucking killer. And I'll kill people about how I'm like, really competitive. She goes, all right? That apparently how posturing it's done. Yeah. That's what I'm saying it in that. So what I'm saying is that how you talk and motivate like boys as opposed to, like, how you talk and motivate girls. It's different. But what I'm just trying to say, though, is that I find that the female athlete is a killer like, you know, the don't, don't don't fool yourself into thing that, like, oh, let's see, there's are just like soccer volleyball Justice day jazz. They had that thing that it's just like know they have to succeed. I win. You know, it's like I tell, you know, men or women just wanted to try and win Lindsey Vonn. Like you just want to the ultra win. Right, right. Yeah. They all have that mean if they're in it, there's no halfway halfway, if they decide, I'm going to begin this sport. I'm gonna do this sharks going to bite off their arm that bitch is still going to be out there. Some of the. Actress female comics Elisa injured shark shark shark. Yeah. Like fucking kid, she's. So what I'm saying. Cummings. They're gonna say elisas going to steamroll she's gonna get these in cues. The thing is, we have haven't you invented villains in your life to help you succeed? Like I've done that morning like I have to, you know what I mean every morning is a villain list doing, but I think unfortunately though, for like say like for female comics, or female actresses, like, you know, the villain, it's easy to pick a the villain is there. So it's all men because we're not getting a chance when you're holding me back, but, but it but it's kind of work. What a great motivation though. Like you know what I mean, they got captain marvel out of it. Yeah. We. No kidding. Good. Movie. What are you talking about? I liked captain famine est. So you're not with your girl in with. No. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was. I already feel like just talk to you. We're so in love. That's my book that is my book God. Did what did I say? It was pretty extreme time anytime our experiences in a time. We have a friend who's like this is my girl and I love her. Here's the ring. She's incredible. Brennan ireland. Early on. I was just trying to see what that's going to like ooh. That bad. Oh, you're trying to convince anybody who's talking. We love each other. Every time I meet a woman. No, I could never imagine cheating. So in love. I guess you'll be on the market in about two weeks. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's it relationships are tough to when you're in this business, too. When you're like this business when you're like, you know, very masculine, I guess too, so nobody teaches us how to fuck and talk to each other. Yeah. Man, we don't wear. We're just about like the minute win. Like, like I watched you with, like you're getting, he was an argument with his brother and Brennan Brennan, get in your face. Like when he's trying to make a point that king city as in your face. It's sort of my hall book, skews me. But you're not doing it to bully. You're just you're just I wouldn't do it. I did you're making your point. Yeah, but subconsciously. No, I disagree with you subconsciously. He for sure. Is bullying so consciously. It's like he's not a bully, though. I know I'm not sick but I mean subconsciously yes, you're huge. And you're, you know, you're like I know what I'm doing that, with, like you can't do that, with, like micro for was going to do a certain people. You're, you're I'm uncomfortable right? Okay. Then you have to be like you have to check Brennan doesn't like when you. So, so we were playing when Brennan didn't no allies. It's less than we were playing volleyball and ally, this is us. She goes, you're a prophet. I thought you'd better have not very good. Oh, she's a college, and I saw his face stop. And he looked at Tony who's also an Olympian Olympic boxer and his face is despite your face. He goes, he goes. Because we have to win. We have. Game. Hey guys, it'd be a great couple do Elisa. A great our we'd be like she so high me's fish because she knows how she would know how to get you ready to do well, in that audition, maybe because you're not. Fucked up so bad at the improv dealer night, I was bringing up Elisa, there's no MC, so we're just tagging off know brought her up, and I, I I'm such a fuck, especially in this culture. I go lazing in, you know, the fans are there to see her not my dumb meet at us, and I go lays down. She's the best female comic on the planet, give it up for the license less injure, and she got up there and I'm like, I'm just trying to walk in, and she goes, skews me female house, like and soon as she went that. I just I was like, oh, God. Sorry. I felt like such a pig. Anything said anything, she's such a beast, but I should've said, I should said, she's one of the best can beatings on the plant matter which I thought I was giving it a big confidence in the best female on the planet, which I do think she is. But I kind of man. Yeah, but you can I'm sure you have a list of dudes that you, you would think are funnier than her. So it's hard for me to say I, I love her to I love her. You know, how many of my female friends that I know they'll hit me, but female for up about two people, okay? To people if I first of all, I'm sick of in LA, if you meet a hot girl in L A, and you tell you do comedy her first question is, do you know, Christa Leah? Okay. So that's getting my nerve. Okay, daddy. Oh my. Right. Like they just like I do. Okay. So I'm looking at. And the other one is they love Elisa. Yeah. You know what I'm saying denial? She sits. Yes. Yes. Has boom bull. She used to kill her. But if you're in your mind you were you were, you know, you had to list, you said, okay? Well, you know, who's my top ten female comics? But that's the way we have best actress best actor. That's right. We have female sports. In male sports. This best thing NBA, it's not LeBron to Bethany. We're not doing that. I mean we, we separate it on purpose. That in life. So go fuck yourself. Saint you always save you know. With her. I don't even know what to say. We skill. A little different though. I would put Elisa personally, I would put, if I had every comic, you can think of this, dude, I put allies in that lineup. And I don't think you'd see it. I mean she'll I get that we're talking about his preference. Yeah, I got you talking about preference. We're talking about choice. Yeah. To me, it should be an elitist system. You know, it's like absolutely it should be. But it's like you know, because everything you have meritocracy, meaning the best person should rise to. But what ends up happening is you have so many groups have their, hey, you know, and then, you know, in entertainment is entertainment. It's also image business too. So you got to look a certain way you got like present yourself a certain way, so that, so you're going to have a hodgepodge of thing. So you have, like here's talent. Here's looks here's personality. Here's an those things have to coalesce. Right. And sometimes they just you might look you might be someone. That's like that person isn't is funny is still. And so, but it's like this other. And then acting teacher. He's looking look at people who was a professional really a great a class where everybody was working, and he'd go, like this, he'd go, what's going on with you, and they go wedding talented, but you don't look at why do you not look this cosmetic industry. He'd be and it was true. It's he goes, I'm talking about. If you wanna compete, you're, you're walking in like that, and they're gonna find a reason not to, like you and this fucking business. Everything has to be long everything you can't go in there. Looking to say says to women a lot of times, and he was talking about the reality of the situation, you can say whatever you want it works, though. We know how human beings work. People are like work it. Okay. It was run run by men. Yeah. Well, guess what, the ones the women that were getting hired with the ones that were buttoned-down in every aspect of their life. And so. Sucking to wait a minute. What why do we do look off one of those, the culture back out here, but they were still talented some, you know, actually, I don't think a lot of with sound got anywhere by song dick, I think a lot of them are just because it's so competitive like that, you have those bad peop- like bad people like if you have some if the gatekeepers a piece of shit, then that's tough I in my twenty five years of, in terms of like your acute enough. None of I didn't see a lot of like on the sets of your so everybody's so busy. And there's so much money online. You're doing your but we don't know what's going on behind the scenes. Now. We don't know where somebody had to do to get your all that. I was hot not during that edition process. I was a hot chick back then. You're the worst defense Chen what he got. 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Ellen Degeneres came out and said that her stepfather used to sexually abuse her. And she said that she hid it for a long time, because her mom seemed really happy. And the reason why her stepdad would molester is because he would use the excuse your mother had breast cancer. She had to have her breast removes because of lumps, I need to check your breasts for lumps, and she would start to lock her doors. And eventually, he would try to break into her room. She busted out of the window, and eventually ran away from home, Jesus Christ. Well, that's terrible. Full. It's hard to hear that it's hor. And then at the same time, see how famous she became. Yeah. You know what I mean? Hoover famous. You know, Ron funches said, you'll be comfortable like, like we did this, then all of a sudden, like a female voice comes on. And it's like a street. Why I was talking about how yeah yeah. Yeah. Q. Has never seen. Really? You know it was happening. I think that well, I stand corrected well to lighten it up. It was on David Letterman's new Netflix show, and we have a clip of him getting dressed by Konya here sick. I took the Kalyan went off air. What I thought you we should say to lighten up generous situation, not my general, this is in this debut episode one did there. I didn't watch the other one. You know what they're trying to it's, it's a long form interview, you know, that you'd want on a podcast, but they film it but it's still overly this. It's still a podcast, you know, they'll just a podcast me podcast, the, the highest. Yeah, but yeah, but podcast will get you look at like, you know, look at Tom and Christina. You know, they got this, you know, they got a whole. Yeah. It's, it's a show, but we just don't need a network. All we need is like YouTube. Let me see this gin Letterman swag. Fire so he took him to get close. Look at his labels. So he specifically went to you to get dressed for his show. Just says he likes the way Konya makes close bro. Joe Kim your outfit addressed Dave. Oh, yeah. You have this great that they're just they're ready. Good. Now factoring. And if somebody could drive me to the mall, I via this. Yeah. I like the colors, I like the fifth. But did if the jackets on. So there you go. Yeah, but then her. Yes, she by the way, she's so hot. By the way, her another one. What do they do? They look people young when people hate on Kim Kardashian that shit pisses me off because she's not regular fine. Okay. She's dope. Okay. And then they go well, she had work done. Don't like rims on wordly. Okay. I'll put rims on a Bentley dot. So this not, that's not a that's not a Toyota Corolla, fixed us. Yeah. Good. Start from a good base. Yeah. 'cause she's dose. But doctors whoever's doing that. I like her mom looks good, too. Like they look young. Here's the thing, maybe I should find that doc. Letterman looks good in that outfit because at outfit is probably three thousand dollars. When you look at look, how Grady looks like a good good looking older, man. Yeah. Agree with you that smash. No, he is. He looks good Kim's a hut. Hey, she's hot so stop. She couldn't look better. Look at her. Go act like it was. It was a Craigslist ad do you want to be super famous, call in and then he'd just pick anybody? I. No, no. But it's also like you sort of how it worked out for you. You don't feel like Kim K if you go that way. That you just do it. You know what? It's like it's like a buddy of mine it used to be like had this, buddy. My name's Shawn and he would be like, I'm, I'm just as good as Avery every Johnson in the NBA. That's what he was say. I was good at him. I go, why are you in the NBA? Yeah. Like go go do it. You mean to tell me you don't wanna make millions of dollars. Like, once you go try out and be on the team. Yeah. He's well you know, I got shut the fuck up. I could do that, or I'm thinking, well, the do it go do it go to you wouldn't you don't want to be worth a billion dollars. She stanching. She's. I. I met your mother like I saw her. We had our just rooms right next to each other pretty but not, you know. You know there I don't know what's going on. She looks a lot of make up. Came ready trying to downplay like he's not. Can I ask you a question there zero wrinkles on that face at all? Is that boat talks? What is made up as make up and stake out? They hide it. Yeah. I don't give up asking. How old is she? In her thirties, thirty because the end is near the end is near. It couldn't have to put her down soon. That's how this. Thirty eight all shit Ghaffar. She looks great this money. Look at all the ones in there like Gwen Stafani looks delicious, dude. Hey look, she says halos fifty. Yeah. Still up here. Klay, damn odd for doctors. Deny on already Sam jiffy fifty. I don't even know who the new one. I just I just work with Jennifer Aniston looks gorgeous uniform per man. So, so does Robin, right. Robin, Wright looks I was like, oh, she's got she's got, you know, who's got Helen Mirren got that, like fuck man. Robert Wright was Robin Wright. She was at Jimmy from Forrest Gump. Oh, fifty three. Kind by nobody prettier when she was younger, forget it. And just went full and talented. Yes, she was hot though. Did don't say was still is. I was like, oh, my who did you say, girl, did you say her? She was Jenny role said Robin. Yeah. Robert Wright Helen Mirren, then work invaluable, Helen Mirren issues, the sexy. Oh, was she in? Now Helen Mirren when she was younger, please. Bring her up. Let me see right in collegue, you know, but look at look at look at her now and then we'll look at it really this hell the mirror, she's still got it. Well, that's the thing. How old is, she younger? How old is she though colleague ULA, for sure? Do how do you sell? How do you sell their number? C. L. I. G U, L A. You know it's all school when Google came and help you out there. Yeah. Her body was ridiculous in this, though. She wears like see-through ship. It's funny. I she's still looks the same. That's good. That's the good thing about her that one, she pregnant what's going on there. Yeah. I think so. How do we get sort of Kim K? Well, that's I guess, black China in person when I was in New York, they told us next door like I gotta get my peepers on her and went over there and people. All this were like two sheets fucking heart. Bring up Susan serandon naked. She was younger was this. Listen. Liberal, liberal, lists how she was such a little baby when she was younger. Okay. I'm not mad at it. Now I'm not happy about it. Yeah. Not thrilled about it. He'd be on Amy Lee Curtis that one Jamie Lee. Curtis is another True Lies and your lesson. Your shoelace, Jamie Lee Curtis era True Lies. No, no, no. You heard about yet to go back to the Eddie Murphy, spreading places. That's right. Jamie Lee Curtis there it is trading places. Check out the tits. She got a ground body, his podcast. We really got. So we get it just sucks. Now is like if you're going to do a scene like this and a movie. Now you have to know that. Okay. It's everywhere, you know, before there was no internet, no social media. So then maybe you, you have to go see it on screen. No one's really taking a picture of these women were such good actresses what I'm saying. And at the same time, we're just it was just a different time and hottest Faulk and didn't weren't just victims to their good looks. Okay. All right. What are you doing? What was that, Paul? Is that her? No. That is not her shoulder. Still new movie while they're not take her faces superimposed days. Balls top people. Ball up fighter fighter, and the kid and then put, like execs ecstasy what comes up? There's like, oh, nothing o p Davidson. Larry the what comes up. We'll put fighter and the kid naked and see if anybody's made some pictures guys you fans out there you need to start doing that. You know, there's nothing what did you guys aren't. Mentioned assist. Wow. Young bucks. We were young. How about what else you got? So AAA is going to be giving away one million dollars worth of food during the playoffs. Anytime somebody mentioned the word free in the first half of the game, the first five hundred people to check to police Twitter feed will text a code, to their number, and then received. Yeah. It's kind of, like usually you're in the world. We want to give the food away. No. It's like a rebate where you have to lie. You know, one of those rebate, we'll cut this off the bar. I know you're put this get the mail this fill the Salvin months later, you have to find like a pint of blood from a goat and then you're gonna get sixty dollars back is just give me the fucking instant rebate. I don't understand how you know what I mean. I guess it's good promotion for the I'll just buy we're talking about it on you're going to buy my burrito. How about that? Yeah. Not everybody has Showtime, special burrito money over here. The show. This show to actually. Does the truth, an American warrior? But anyway, let's go on. So kit Harrington has checked himself into rehab over the last couple of episodes, that were released for game of thrones. Don't wanna know this. I didn't want to know this about him. I don't know to have products what I'm saying? I don't want to know that because it's an honorable character. So now you've blurred the lines. And now I just know like now, we're fully, and that's in the final season being so horrible. And it is oh, hated it. It was terrible. I hate it. It's, it's, it's the whole thing. No. The, the last season, it was terrible. The creators got lazy. Well, they were like you know what we're all set we're good with Star Wars. The first of all they think it's hubris, you know, because they thought they created, we could do it. They didn't get any J the author wasn't involved. They HBO wanted to give them ten episodes able, like no, we could do it in six. I think they just checked out there must be some shit behind the scenes where they just wanted to get away from the new, Har to this poor guy. So I imagine being like you have all this money. Now that comes out of nowhere. You know that much money, though. Not that much. Oh, he's getting like five hundred episode for the last three or four seasons. He's, he's worth millions of dollars. Yeah. Dude, all you need is like a couple of million dollars in the Bank. And then you're like whatever lifestyle, you're you choose to live. You're gonna be crazy. That's fair. You know what I mean these people? So, but he did start drinking because of the hate Hughes gin from the character and like the plot it was a combination of a few things. It was a combination of the show, finally ending and him not knowing what to do after that. It's tough to attach that kick your, your so cemented as John snow, like if he shows up is the next wolverine. I'm like the fuck out of my face dude. What's the snow? He had some. World, every us as an actor like a moral us, just like he was so pure and stuff. But but to the point where it's stupid. You know, it's like he has his sincerity to his face. Innocent. I couldn't be on big brother like if the cast of game of thrones is on big brother. He would lose. I. Yeah because he's vulnerable to vulnerable. Full. The gentle, you don't tell your sister about this shit when you know how ruthless they are. But that's that's a star quality. It'd be able to be that true. Through the guy. I never kind of like what's his name? Justin long rage. The apple kid for as her, and then you see them in movies him, though. I haven't seen him in a movie in a while. Good. Yeah. Going along with just as long as you do was just on occasion breaking long, really good, though. Take it along an excellent actor dude, his story on keep talking about expert with that, shepherd his story on this podcast, my favorite podcasts, his story on his best ever heard anybody tell you why. Because he talks about how he's, he's shooting one of the movies. He's been a ton of movies, and he's back home. They're shooting back in his home. This is big move. He goes out Jeepers creepers, and he goes out with Ike. Well. First one, we'll just I may I ask, what was his big movie. And he without even be Jeepers creepers, like nobody saw Jeepers creepers. So you wanna your Sofyan mind. Nobody start Jeepers creepers. Who what is his big thing. It's not jeapardize all dodgeball, now before that he was before that I wasn't with Ryan Reynolds, using die hard. Jeff, please keep going back. We're going to own this, but the no, he was also in waiting how. Straighten waiting funny people. It's not that keep going. He's just not in that free die hard. That's not the one. He's really Jau. Worked a lot except the seventies show. No. It was something Crecy wasn't Jeepers creepers, if they've got a hundred people, and you ask them to tell you adjusted long, Jeepers creepers, like four of them with. Cheaper scripts galaxy quest. He was great. And that's the one. I remember. Okay. God, that was a good one hour rated movie galaxy quest. It was great, great Jeepers creepers weight. And. Jeepers. Creepers two. I know you're Jeepers creepers, two guy. I like to as well. How? The lead role in part one, but his story about the being this town, and he goes out with to cast mates. They early. No really know. And these guys take him out like these drunk like meat heads. Take him out and asked them smoke weed and his actual actually angel dust in it. She's driving him thought that he like they were going to kill them because were basic kidnap him. And he gets out of the launch and stuff. It's a crazy story. I was I it was such a good podcast story. I had somewhere to be pulled over and waited to finish and then carried on. That's how good it was. Justin long, Jeepers creepers, one into cherry armchair directed him in there like he's just so good. He's such a good actor just gives. You whatever you want you have to worry about happy, campers who's good in that one too. I don't know how we got started what else we got. So Jeff Bezos is soon to be ex wife says that she's doing the same thing as Bill and Melinda gates where she's going to give away more than half of income. That's God, first of all, you build an empire a hundred billion dollar empire more, you get married. And she just gives your mind. Keep an half of it, though. Actually, he re tweeted her, I don't know, if this is him being genuine or him trying to help with the divorce proceedings but he tweeted out that he's proud of what she's doing. She didn't get a she didn't get a he's got a lot of respect for. She was bad ass. She. He still the richest in the world. They keep take half thirty five billion dollars. Okay. Crazy. Now, you have what this team sixteen seventeen like just to put it in respective, put an Bill. Put an billing. The NFL itself is only worth about ten billion dollars. Well, look, I mean a billion billion sex, so a billion seconds. It's thirty three years, a billion seconds, two thousand billion dollars thousand million. It could be any number. Once you have a billion doll- one billion, but he's such a number where you're not like everything's free. But by the way, by the way, when you're rich, okay, so you have rich crazy like we're talking about Jim Carey. Okay. Jim Carrey's rich recluse a little out. They're not in touch reality, sometimes because he's so rich and famous. Right. But when you have billions of dollars different that's, that's you don't know about those people there. So rich, you don't know about them. They're not going to be on cribs. They don't want to be. They're not rich and famous enough posting, you don't even know super rich you're sitting at the front row of basketball games sweatsuits, and you're looking like who's that guy? And they have it on the Suming idea that guy right there. He's worth six billion dollars like bomber c bombing, owner of the clippers fucker has he looks like he works at a fucking kinko's. Yeah. Let's say you know what I mean when he's got a polo shirt on with a khakis all the time and the guys, you know, he's got forty billion dollars. It's insane. There's pretty crazy. I just want to, like I just want to tell that. Hey, can I just take a billion of your dollars and put it in my savings account for a year and then I'll give it back to you? Interest. In fact, the interest. I'll give it right back. Yeah. That's that interest interest on a billion. What's that even out a regular savings and getting two percent about sixty million dollars? Conservative. So you so how do you, not you? There's no way for him not to continue to make money. No. Like we spent two billion dollars on the clippers. It was like by an XBox, you not that, you know. By a two billion so crazy great. Would I wonder if you wrote a check, I wonder if that was like a shed at a wire, man, that'd be great, I would want to win, you want to write a two billion dollar? Check just zero zero zero zero God. Anyway, she gets gets next this here. OJ Simpson's house manager. So the OJ Simpson told him a story wants about him and Kris Kardashian in a hot tub is, you know, like rob Kardashian Kris kadarshian, we're married. And then Nicole OJ were together. They're all friends. This has been the rumor forever that chloe's actually owed. Yes daughter. Yeah. Oh, wow. So they were in a hot tub together, all four of them, because it was best friends with an ankle simple. I'm looking at OJ right now. Do I see? Do I see Kim Kardashian? Ashen though mix them together. Oh, while I mean, I have no doubt that he took care of that. Well what, so what did he say chin? So you think he was smashed? They're half a while. And finally into Cole went to bed, and then rob went to bed. So just Chris and OJ together in the hot tub fucked up, leaving your girl with girl, though. Jay Jay's, no. What time they did? You don't have murdering his. I know not murder he's gonna murder that pussy. Okay. Exactly. So he stood up from the hot tub, he pulled on his shorts and he said that Chris credit. Her eyes started bugging out of her head. And then he, he said he fucked her until he broke her to Bronco. He murderer it's around at two AM Chris cod Asha kept knocking on the door where he was sleeping and asking her for him to take her to the hospital. He said, you have rob do it. And since that moment, they got a divorce Robin, Chris crashing. And then that I guess Nicole and OJ split up after that two. We can't believe they can't believe it is. I mean, I'm sure they fucked hundred percent but the executives OJ the OJ talking about looking at the beginning of it, right. From what J told me. This was my. Let me show. This is them in the car, filming this something happens. Advert ever changes. Best friend. Both stand up. And cheeks. He gets up and go he. Hey, my turn that thing turn those filming. So they made him. Turn it off. Always talked about Kris credit. Yeah. So this is going to be an a documentary that the manager who's telling the story is making so into this documentary. Of course, they fight bed. I'm always hey, we're gonna find that when you were talking about the where where people are. Since I'm not the movie, but it's the actual it's the actual venture. Yeah. That's the SPF ESPN ward winning you could see I've ever seen. Oh man. I'm, I'm very leery of documentaries, though. I am. Yep. Yeah. Shipping. They always have an agenda making a murder. That's making a murder. Michael Jackson won Jackson. You look more into it. That's complete Bolshoi. Hold on. Is that right? Oh, complete bullshit. Finding Neverland is complete complete tarnish on Michael Jackson. Wow. How this is new for me. Oprah's even backed off. She's a race dollar tweets gut took all our videos down. You look more into it and like the two guys did all it's such. I'm not I'm not arguing for or against Michael Jackson. I'm against documentaries. Okay. If this, if these guys if this happened to them, then you're going to put out a documentary, make it foolproof, like, don't have so many discrepancies. But the interesting thing about the Michael Jackson thing is that it started at a time where there was no social media. So all these people these lawyers. And, and, and what do you call it a journalists? They now have a voice, and they've been investigating this for twenty five years, they've been investigated too. But when you look at the kids, who know me all I'm saying so suspect, when in Irian foster does a great job covering this. When you look into the kids who said they were Melissa, Leo J Simpson. Michael tax, Michael Jackson. When the interview the parents, the parents first reaction was into call the cops the parents, the ones where they settled out of court. Their first reaction was call. Oh, I'm sorry. Jackson and say we want money. That's that says, as a parent funk way. But my own was paid off. That's the other myth, they were paid off. No, no. Nobody was paid off. He settled out of clothes that see that's another thing that's a myth like that original guy that the original in nineteen Ninety-three that particular case they filed a civil suit, I in conjunction with a criminal case. Yes. And any lawyer would tell you that you don't want to go a civil case first, and then how because it's like burden of proof is fifty percent. And then you could take all that information and try to use it in a criminal case. So they suggested to him settle the case. So you can have these people testify in the criminal case. Yes, but they took off put, but also the, the one kid in the documentary of the main guy was now if he was molested, Michael Jackson talk to that, that do net in that time when he was in that major. Trial. They said you need one key witness. Who do you trust the most in this world? And that was his key witness is number one defense witness was that kid at the time. But like I say, man, I'm not in that now he comes out now before this came out when OJ passed away, he went. I don't know. I fucking C T. So before he before Michael Jackson's. Cd before book, when he died Hernandez here. Yeah. That. Jackson's family and was I came in. You guys are doing thing in Vegas. I want to be the guy who helps you create that already. Have someone he sued after that what? No, he's been David suing for forever. No not. That one not wait. Wait wait been suing forever, and they keep getting the case. But oh no, no. Not not until he was denied no accent. No, no, no. He was already Hugh de civil case. It already been thrown out of court before the I'm trying to tell you. I've been on the rabbit, hold on this, too. I'm gonna rabbit all Malays and other stuff. Please do. Wait, wait, was originally her years? Shar William freshman that Michael Jackson's Stephanie guilt. No, I'm under the impression that this there that there's more information that we've been living under with his Chevrolet was a lot. No. I'm talking to even before that. I think the press because the foreign press is all over. I mean, there's people that are looking at the court records dot court documents you can find online. You could see have you looked down. You can look at it. Yeah. It's amazing stuff that you go. Oh, I don't know if this was true. Yeah. But what I'm saying is if you're gonna make documentary to damn dude, like where they did don't have these discrepancies like the kids. The one guy said Michael Jackson, molested me in this in this train station on Neverland ranch. And we've we will he molested me every time we went to the train station upstairs come to find out that the timeframe that he said that this happened. The train station wasn't built yet. And so many holes this those kind of things you go. Hey, this is important. But if you're lying about that now why don't you check that out when you say, that's my? That's what I'm saying, I'm not for or against, I feel like he got documentaries or like the way the way you write. He was acquitted in court. But on to that, the director that documentary day didn't want anybody else's opinion. They only wanted though. And by the way, family does take money. Well, they didn't take money. You're saying they filed a civil case in conjunction with a criminal. But that particular case, but that particular case to the fought, they have their father on tape talking about who's going to ruin my life, and like it was very. Suspect situation, about like, and that wasn't even about molestation either by the way. But it's, it's a weird almost saying, like if you really want is a fun deep dive to on the internet, and you have sympathy for Michael Jackson. Yeah, yeah. Man. You're like, not as much as monsters, you thought, as much as a monster is day pretend rate. Yes, they painted. But I'll say this again. I'm very leery now documentaries because I go, what is their agenda, but he's his sister-in-law Latorre was like way before. And this came out, she goes, what is it, grown man doing with eight year old boys and it's about time we talk about, but, you know, by the way, but, but, but, you know, so funny, you say that you could deep dive on that she was her, her husband actually put her up to that because they were paid at the time that, that article came she was saying that they were paid for that. So I'm saying there's like an also a lot of these allegations came out, once Michael Jackson owned all his music in the Beatles music from. So, you know, it's a funny thing to decide strange to us you hear about this. You think it's all Budgie think you only hung out with boys. Yeah, yeah, there's hundreds of pictures of him with little girls. So kids in general, here's kids in general. And he had a lot of kids there at the same time right crowds at care health and a lot of kids. Listen, I'm not either here nor there gun to the head. Did he molest? Come onto I'm not gonna come on stop it. Stop it. I'm not gonna. It's interesting. How how head Brian? None of them, not just don't know. I don't I don't know. I don't know either. The thing is what we're finding out is that we, we really don't we, he slept in the same bed as boys if, if he if he was alone, and he slept with a boy, I know I got a huge problem. Okay, if you're from, but you're hearing weird, listen. This is what I'm saying, though him being weird him being having a strange upbringing. And having this, like, you know what do we make the jump that? He's, he's a serial. No. Yeah. It's a quivalent to say it's a quivalent to saying that if a woman dresses, slutty. Yep. Does she deserves to be raped it? Now. You know what I mean? What I'm saying. Is this like like so? Lodger their smoke this fire. Like I always think you're spending a lot of time. I'm always suspect. I'm always aspect of. There are some great look. My son's been helped he had some, some as a little boy, had some issues, just developmentally. He had he's been helped immeasurably by men who are experts in the field of child abandonment child psychology. He's they're great people. And I know for a fact that these are good people and everything else. So I'm not saying that. But when I see, dude, who's always running self with young kids, especially boys and. Sleeping over. What the fuck your money wasn't you ever hung out with a ten year old, I have six hour. I can't I get bored. I like I love my son. My son seven he and his friends online, hanging out with those does I do that. You guys go play. I'm going to be reading the book going out of you're going down a line of logic that you're saying if you do that, it means, you're, I don't want to say that I was like I said, I don't want to say that because there are people that work with children who are great, and they might be men, women and much needed in their awesome. What's the guy did have a strange upbringing? Yeah. When you see he was, yeah. He lives like. As you get a lot of. Issues, but we're finding now the priests that ran orphanages the priests the brothers that ran those boys homes. They were raping those boys. Yes, those fucking assholes not all we're pedophile is a lot of them those a lot of those pedophile were raping those boys and, and they were putting themselves in those positions. And I think that's you know, those kinds of things always now we know better. So if my son on cub scout trip. You have to be with him in the tent. Apparent has to be with that child, because we don't fuck around anymore with that. But I'm just saying man as you go down the rabbit hole of these things, and really to find out, like, because even like again, even like with the OJ trial. You know, it's like you come to find out when you read stuff about the civil case, civil cases where the civil cases where you find out that he probably did it for sure. You know what I mean? Like civil cases like the civil cases where they were like, well, here, here are pictures of you with those shoes that you say, yeah. He's here is evidence of this, this, and that, and that, like, you know, the circumstantial evidence is enough because people get convicted on circumstantial, evidence all the time, because we don't really know there's no that's when somebody's being killed. It's all circumstantial evidence. You know, but in this case, I'm saying, so you have a documentary about it, you read it, you see this stuff. And I'm saying, I can the Michael Jackson case, like, look when Bill Cosby came out when a Bill Cosby shit came out. It, it went from zero to sixty like this. Yes. Okay. Well, that's because there was way or the other. There are like, Ted fifty fifty women came forward. Right. I mean that's what I'm trying to say. Yeah. This leave a long trail. I know. But what I'm saying is, there's all these victims were it'd be a hundred coup according to these documentaries children's show grown men now that's their own. Harry has nothing to lose. Downing. Woody, Allen's been ostracized completely based on, on, on a person's testimony of their memory when they were seven that was given to her by her mom. And my thing is like Woody, Allen. If child molesters have a lot. There are a lot of people that come forward like any of these priests, any, any pedophile the fifty people come forward. They're like he did it to me to me. It's a pattern not always though, especially with Woody, Allen's case now Woody, Allen. I, I looked back twice to criminal. He went through to that to me. I was like Bryant. Get soup or stark there. That was a civil case. Like people want, like if you if you go through something horrible, and then you go. Well, what do I want to get out of this? It's like what do I want to get in the end? It's like what you know, for me with the Michael Jackson thing. What's the Justice? He's dead. Right. What's the Justice? Do you want to get money off the estate, right? That's what they're trying to. That's all I can do. It's all named so by now. Yeah. So. But even even be someone bodies, right where the bodies where the rest of the boys. Yeah. So I don't I don't know right now, but he suspects to super suspect, right? With with motivations beyond. It's just those two there's only those two yeah. And the people who are against, and also one of them's the mom, is, like a, you know, a stage mom, you know, she would bring him to Jackson. Michael's what's up dude, like nowhere, man, but was forced to kill me. Hates them again. Just go into the documentary. Part of it is all on really talk. About is one of those are one of the moms specifically in the documentary says when I found out he was dead. I was like, yes, because he can no longer hurt any other boys. She didn't find out about their son being molested a pair, allegedly. He was already dead. Yes. So what I'm saying is, if you're going to have those kind of discrepancy documentary better do. That's all I'm saying, if you try tricking me do better. If you're gonna like to tear guy down because you'd think this is important to get out. And it's a message about abuse. That is supposed to be impure matter do or don't these discrepancies. Who who did this bullshit documentary? Daschle direct. Yeah. Let me see who this, where you take forty five minutes out of the documentaries already been taken out of it, when they played it at Europe. They played it in Europe. I so when it came here HBO, they had to cut forty five minutes of it. They play because it was so many, you know, they played it at Sunday walked out. Yeah. What, what about what about what you should? The interviews of him guys. There's just one interview these see that one great interview where this British. Journalist is reading a letter from the family and they're showing them how they're reacting. And it's just so like you just go man, you guys look guilty. Don when they did the sit down with Oprah on Apple's it good stuff. What about HBO eating? These field to their due diligence because they don't care. It's real as a kid. Jackson family soon HBO. But HBO is like oh, but they're only suing they can only sue HBO because back in the day, Michael Jackson had agreement with them that you can't put anything out that disparages his character because they give access to the Neverland that whatever it was the cameras access from HBO, then that was supposed to get out the foot is whatever it is that it's like a weird thing man. But they kids actually couldn't sue until he was dead because they'd be liable, also so, but I'm saying what Justice the justices the guy's dead. Let's say he did all that terrible stuff. He's dead. What, what more justly can't? I just ruined his legacy. He's still the king of pob, but you should see their, their his online, and look at see what they're the they're suing whatever. That document is you should see the things on. They're like they're saying that I would have been, I would have been a multimillion dollar director if it wasn't for him, Larry. So that's what you know if it wasn't for him. I would have done this, you have to shoot for damages. See that Wade Robson before he sued Jackson, he had to check into clinic because his career wasn't going the way thought and he had a panic attack because he was lost. What's I mentioned? And then he comes to the Jackson family, she's, then they say no. Then he says, oh, he Melissa me kicks so suspect, it's just like don't it's important, you're going to put out something so damning that like is frustrated people are gonna watch it in so many people are going to be moved by a lot of smart. People are gonna watch it seen this tale before and go hold up here, man. Yeah. But it's like it's, it's just like do your do your due diligence that. That shit was entertaining though. That's your super entertain how I have watched leaving like five minutes by this guy. Yeah, we'll give us another one. The one chin. Listen to two quick ones here real quick. How about no more molest? Lebron james. This is from barstool sports is through the worst house party. And if you look at it, it's just him and his boys in his backyard Timet. They pulled it down. Now, this is sometimes it goes that way. But this is through his story. Okay. Never mind. It's probably down it pulled it down. But it was just him with his boys like four or five is boys loud music a bunch of chairs and then, like a what do we call this, a billboard whatever stuff? And they're just smoking and drinking smoking cigars. Be LeBron James is thirty five. Okay. Yeah. I wish you the video, though, I just think it's to be like he's thirty five. They went to be like Logan poll. He's going to eighteen year old kid about to go to school. He's he's, he's going to the NBA, and he's a dad that he's a dance sons basil, only. That would have been worse. Signed son got his son got no. Just like a book club. The thing about my Conrad. The voting rights campaign finance reform. That's a Bryant. He's not young. He's mad trying to find the video leader though. It's he's on his let's all right beast. He just put his son on Instagram. You let them do it, and he got a million followers like this, this one's about the manager of the Lakers side. Here's. A documentary type thing tell you watch it play play this is okay. I mean if I play it's going to be where. So anyways, the joker that movie, the dark Knight came out at a certain day, you'd have tell the story fucking to please. Kobe Bryant's agent who's now the GM for the Lakers and night, Brock linka. He's telling a story to the Laker guys, he's trying to like, because he used to be Kobe's agent trying to motivate he's trying to motivate them. And he's, he's saying what Kobe used as motivation play. Really quick story, there was one time when Kobe who I worked with eighteen years was going back to play Madison Square Garden and he had just seen the dark Knight. Obviously, you've got that movie as I, hey, hooked me up with dinner with heath ledger because he got so locked into that role. I want to know how he mentally went there. And so we had dinner with heathy eight that's enough. How pause heath ledger? Hit him was already dead that never happened. He's let your died before the before the came out. So did Kobe say that though or did come hopefully? He's like, why is coming out with, like, keep my name out your mouth? Yeah. He's editor. Don't bring you talk about. But he's I liked to buy. I've said I like the MU Kobe was known to, to find winners and wanna talk here's a point. Here's the problem with society right now. I guess what this guy is trying to do. He's trying to motivate these young look a lazy. They're not even. They're unmotivated in the crowd right now. Look at it. They don't give a fuck the wrong starts talking. They're like they're rich entitled assholes. Right. And he's trying to come up with a story to motivate them the province society right now is that's being taped and broadcast on the could be faction, also also, those kids, some are on the phones. Zeal heath ledger. Kobe. Yeah. Well know man. He died oh, said that, though. Oh, that's just know it's just a weird his do better. You do better. Isn't it kind of weird how Robin than it looks like a sort of skinny Bryan Callen you know what I mean especially next to the rock thicker, that's like you. This is you in burn Brenton. She's got all natural. Brian. Willie. Does it matter now? But he's not doing like now. He's Heston for sterilizing heating. He's so awesome. Yeah. But look at them, gotta love you. Get the rock to save thing. What's funny is gonna have. Podcasts with my co-host save my parts care. Not really like he's getting like rocks down the story tried motivate them, and then they pay it and it's just the, you know, these young millionaire basketball players like all right to relate to play because they're like, hey, we did something too hard. It is to sit in this room. We're the hell late Lakers. Well, like your information may not be helping me. I just want to win games. Kobe should be talking. Have have been. Why would the bronze should be Kobe's gotta show details? Yeah. We breaks down like he's the most boring motherfucker like it is souls in assassin, boring. That's you would love it. You know what I mean? Don't say it's a similar cadence. Very super entertaining strange. When you're talking about by yourself. Anybody? Anybody? Eric, you're earning on dude. I'm just saying he's got a roll man. All right. Buddy. Eric. Details at Bryan Callen. Cast. Yeah. Winston with Griffin and Brian counts, going to be on in a in a few weeks that episode we already dynamic fun and funny, and I'm going to be at a Nyack New York levity live here. Aca weekend. I'm gonna win this is coming out today. Tonight. Oh, yes. I'll be so this weekend guys tomorrow or whatever today. Whatever it is out there. So come on. Check me out Indianapolis. I'll be there, June six seven eight still some tickets left Las Vegas me and Brennan Shaab. Those tickets show, Orleans show room, the June fifteenth. It'll be a book reading at the end of the show. I miss that I'll be making a reading list for all. I heard criven. We'll be reading from the books Tempe, Arizona. That'd be great time. Saw my new tour. Bookworm comes out. He tells he. Twenty twenty one twenty to come to the Tempe. Improv you pass guys? I'm in Cleveland, this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, hilarious you Cleveland great club. I'm excited dog Kim. Get it Burbank next. I think that's Friday, June eighth Rappaport, women, just like just in Burbank. Flappers. Can you now they'll figure it out? You know with Burbank flappers, I got Mike arrived port and for him with me on that show. That's one show only Vegas with count hundred tickets, left and then Calgary just now Yuk yuks Calgary. And then brea after that get your tickets gay dot com. Eric repudiate. You brother. Thank you guys. This is the von kid. We're out. Yeah. Ancestry DNA gives you a lot more than just the places. You're from it connects you to the places in the world. We were story started. I'm talking about what you're really from uses precise geographic detail and cut historic land sides. You can even trace your ancestors journeys over time following how and why your family moved from place to place. Go to ancestry dot com today. Purchasers purchaser, ancestry DNA kits spitting at to basically ancestry dot com to purchase your ancestry DNA kit. Ancestry dot com.