17 Burst results for "Antony Fennell"

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

08:38 min | 8 months ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Sounds like surveillance capitalism on steroids. Would that be unfair. I think that's very fair. And i think that that kind of caution should be encouraged and i'd really invite people who are listening to consider what might the metaverse be if instead of devoting our attention to what people like knock suck kabila guessing. We started to have that conversation of. What might the metaverse if it was to serve the public. How could we imagine this as the next iteration of a commons in which people came together in a way that serves human lives rather than serves the bottom line of these companies. You're with future tents on aren. Abc radio national exploring the world around us looking for the pathways ahead and signposting the future and today's topic the metaverse one possible vision of the world to come a utopia or dystopia. It depends on who you ask. I'm antony fennell. A lot of people. Sam a eight or that. I'm anti technology and not eat. I love technology but as a matter of whether it's uses a tool or toy and whether a week control it controls us all and consulting psychologist. Dr jim taylor. I think there are a lot of valuable practical aspects of it just like as we know it now with the internet. Email is wonderful and texting you ability to collaborate is incredible. It could be a very powerful tool. I think kobe actually s accelerated the process of this development of the metaverse because zoom in skype another video calling technology platforms have enabled us to still function in a world that was largely paralyzed and instill is in many parts of the world. You everybody's zoomed out there over zoom but imagine with the metaverse where you're not just looking at a screen. You're actually in a room with your colleagues. Wherever they are in a conference room having a real discussion then i put real in air quotes. Because it's not real completely but you feel like you're there which is a much better experience than being in zoom call in zoom meeting the metaverse if it was successfully created would be a mediated environment. Wouldn't it how does that impact upon us as human beings in the way we interact with each other. Yeah well that's certainly a great concern in just a preface it concern. I do have also is. That technology is advancing so quickly that the only time we get a chance to consider the implications on our lives as individuals as communities as global beans is in the river mirror and we learned that very powerfully clinically in the us and with kobe as well that it can be a wonderful tool technology but it also can be a real problem now diving into the idea of a mediated screen connected universe. I i want to say that we might have to define redefine. What reality is. But i tend to see reality as a existence where we can touch. We can smell. We can feel that is for me a definition a key definition of reality. Now and certainly. I'm sure in the distant future with the metaverse will be able to smell and touch deal things as well but at least now in leading into a metaverse it experiences not the same it is mediated. It's virtual in virtual means similar to kim to like but it's not reality and so the danger there is that people are missing things that are necessary to function in reality and certainly in terms of child development. There's some real concerns about that because for example emotional intelligence social skills. Those are things that develop practice in. If you're not engaging in person with people you're not able to take in all the cues that are so essential for effective communication and of course immediate weld you'll being steed in various directions. Well it's a great insight anthony because the fact is is that the internet and technology. It's a box. It's a beautiful ox that gives us many options. But it's still a box that we have to work within the option of technology allows us whereas in the real world we have unlimited potential auctions. And so that is another area where we miss out on the ability to experience life in its fullest form and the fact is by by ex experiencing like at a distance whether it's with gaming or in the corporate world or in personal relationships. It's safer in a way it's cleaner it's simpler because is always that screen between us and the other person and there's always delete or exit that enabled us to get out of those things and the fact is anthony that life is messy and i mean that in a very positive way because in a way it's the messy nece that makes life interesting if there was perfect world. The wouldn't be choices. There wouldn't be extremes of anything in those extremes that really give life. It's meaning whether it's love or sometimes yes anger or frustration or pleasure or whatever it might be and so that for me is the richness of life at this point anyway and certainly in the foreseeable future. I don't see anything into technology enabling us to truly replicate not just virtually or augmented but really make it real sorry for all mark zuckerberg's money and influence the old notion of build it and they shall come is far from certain as technology analyst. David karp pointed out on a recent edition of future tense. The metaverse idea is predicated on the use of virtual reality technology but the universal appeal of vr is yet to match the hib- it is no longer the case like it was in the nineteen nineties that this is a wonderful dream but the technology is not there yet. You can go out and for a few hundred dollars by innocuous quest headset and play a bunch of are games. We just lived through a year long pandemic in which people with plenty of money were stuck inside and desperately needed an escape and the result is some people have bought the oculus quest and they've used it to play a few games. They've used it. I think to maybe some online exercise routines but it is still not broken through to the public. It's still nothing but a niche gaming device. And if it couldn't breakthrough in our pandemic year then. I think we need to start wondering whether this really is nothing. More than a niche gaming device there are few years what a decade ago where three d. movies and television where all the rich a few years ago people in hollywood people in tech media believed that we were headed towards this three d. old and it turned out later. That was just a gimmick. It turned out that people didn't really want three d. In their experience they just wanted a good compelling movies. I think in five years we'll probably going to have fancier vr. Headsets that are still just used for niche games and the popular games will probably still the games that you can easily play on your phone. Easily play console and deliver the best stories in the best experiences and what we may find out. Is that while. There's some circumstances in which it's really fun to have that immersive the our experience. It just doesn't build into the larger experience that they keep on betting on it they keep expectant. If the metaverse was something that the world was creating was ready to hook into. Then i think particularly after twenty twenty when there was so much of an opportunity. I think the fact that it hasn't caught on yet might signal that we're just never going to get there. It's still a really niche proposition. Like i personally don't see that much of an appetite for it. I don't think virtual reality goggles that this requires are popular at all and most people don't see any use for them. But i do think that we see these very popular video games like roadblocks or fortnight and those are popular as entertainment and that kind of suggests that there could be spaces in the future. That are more metaverse lake that that are very popular. But again i think it's more about entertainment and playing games and talking to your friends than it is about fully existing in virtual reality bark soccer. Berg seems to be very very ambitious. I mean the way that. Jeff bezos says like dominated the physical worlds mark zuckerberg kind of dominates the digital worlds. And so i feel like if anyone could use their resources to build the metaverse or like encourage people to spend time in its him. But i do think it's a misperception may be of silicon valley that this is something that millions and millions of people want or need in their lives like i think if we do end up spending time in a virtual reality space. It'll almost be because it was forced on us by these companies other than.

Abc radio antony fennell Dr jim taylor kobe kabila anthony David karp skype Sam mark zuckerberg kim us hollywood metaverse lake Jeff bezos Berg soccer
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

08:34 min | 8 months ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Metaverse as really just shot right up. In terms of google trends people are asking about a low to the place metaverse really creates this illusion of. It's like the universe but more than that. It's overlaid on top of that. We have whatever we can design to enhance. The experience of being human. Facebook's record has shown that habit is to acquire other companies and shut them down or crush them or absorb them in whatever way they possibly can so and sucker berg talks about the metaverse trying to be interoperable or like everything kind of fits together. It's really hard to believe. It seems like facebook would want to control this entire space no matter what. So what exactly is the mid of us. Well at the moment. I can't give you a definitive answer to that question. But by the end of this program no went have an answer than either what i can tell you. Definitively is that depending on your perspective. It's either a super cool vision of tomorrow or a load of infantile nonsense dreamt up by tech billionaires. Hello antony fennell. Welcome to feature tends. The term meditators originates from an neil stevenson book. Back in the ninety s called snow crash and neil stevenson's a science fiction writer and he painted this picture of a virtual world that people could jack into much like william gibson's signed a space. That many people are familiar with as well. And that's where we get. The term from defining is a little bit more tricky because it still remains a vision of something that is in the future rather than something. That's already here. But how i like to define. The metaverse is through the idea of extended reality in kelly senior lecturer in interaction design at the queensland university of technology so moist people familiar with these ideas of augmented reality that designing things we can overlay on top of the physical world. Something like kokomo and go is a great example of augmented reality and people are also familiar with the virtual reality. These ideas that designing whole world's that perhaps you experience through virtual reality glasses in full three d or maybe it's even just a virtual world that you take part in as game and so that's extended reality is of the laying onto the physical world or leaving ethic will to take pot in a virtual reality and the metaverse comes about when you think about what might happen. If all of these different hot extended reality where to come together into one extended reality so right now there are hundreds of millions of people who play games in virtual world where they interact with each other and people that are using cryptocurrencies to do all kinds of transactions in virtual worlds and people interacting with friends and community groups through social media platforms like facebook. And what would happen is in the future. All of these things were to come together so that you say one person in a very large and all encompassing the actual slash old minted reality with delayed and persistent on top of physical reality. So it's a bit of a catchall phrase then it brings all of those digital and social activities that we do into the one environment. I feel like it's an emergence turn similar to the way that the internet of things became a really useful. Turn to the fact that all of these devices were emerging. Were able to do useful things because they were connected to the internet in a single away. The metaverse is a useful catch all term for what we might get from these different technologies that are related to each other and lock the internet of things or the cloud is their allure or power in being extremely vague about details but sounding extremely important. You know the next big thing absolutely. And i think that's why the two meta the has really just shot right up in terms of google trends people asking about it alot to the place and academics have been talking about this trend for many years usually using the term extended reality. But it's not a very good term because it defines by what it isn't it saying it's like reality that's an extension to it. It's not very evocative. It doesn't give you an idea of where goes whereas metaverse really creates this illusion of. It's like the universe but more than that it's overlaid on top of it. We have whatever weakened design to enhance the experience of being human. That's the narrative that's being woven around the myth of this and facebook ceo and founder mark zuckerberg finds that narrative so seductive. He recently declared that. Facebook had begun the process of transforming itself into a metaverse company out overarching goal. Across all of these initiatives he reportedly told staff is to help. Bring the metaverse to life. Nick kelly again. When mark zuckerberg the tokes about this one way that i understand it is the civil facebook already. Has the three billion uses the platform and that's a huge amount of the human population and they're constantly having to look ahead as to what the next version of the social network might look like as we all learned through the rise of facebook through network effects. Whoever gets first when you constructing net book has a huge advantage that really can't be overcome and that's why facebook is remains so dominant despite other people trying to start up social networks and so they're trying to think well as we get new technologies so we get five g. improving the mobile broadband networks and what people can do with it as we get devices. Perhaps make it possible to feel much more present when connecting with somebody online. What might that future look like. And what might the future of social networks and for facebook. They're engaging well. How can we control that and to give you some idea. Zun is a technology that everyone's now familiar with especially since the pandemic has hit and that has around about three hundred million uses each day and part of what facebook is pursuing is. What is the future of work. How will people interacting work meetings. And they've got the experimental platform. Facebook horizon up online to try and have a say in experimenting. What that will be our technology vision putting people at the center of the computing experience. And they're a big part of how we do. This is by building technology that advances the feeling of presence right some more immersive getting the hardware out of the way better natural more. Ui better more realistic avatars. We'll talk about later. So that's one part. The other part is basically building the software experiences that put people at the center of the experience. That's kind of our bread and butter as a company. We build a lot of so. They're all of these different motivations for the big companies like facebook. To try and shaping what this looks like fundamentally to control it and to promote that particular model which is based largely on advertising and daughter extraction from us so it's certainly a the facebook version of the metaverse is one that i'm extremely wary of if out there. We need your help. Storm came. there are lots of different companies. And they're all kind of jockeying to control even just the idea of the metaverse. My name is kyle checa and i am a contributing writer at the new yorker now. It's.

neil stevenson facebook antony fennell william gibson queensland university of techn berg google mark zuckerberg Nick kelly kelly jack Zun kyle checa the new yorker
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

06:20 min | 9 months ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"I am clifford lynch. I am the director of the coalition for networked information based in washington dc and just like rebecca cremona clifford lynch is fascinated by the prospect of archiving the experiential side of the web for all its challenges. Starting in may be the late nineties. It became commonplace to talk about web. Archiving if you look at the web at that time the web was actually a very static place. There were websites. They were largely hand crafted at the time. And they were simply digital pages of html would soon perhaps embedded images now. The web is in fact just a sort of a carrier for a huge number of very different and highly varied services. If you think about it you can participate in social media through a web interface. You can also do it of course on your phone through an app. You can stream music throw web interface. You can go shopping on amazon through a web interface. All of these things are fundamentally very different interactive services and the notion of archiving those in the same way you archived a relatively static website that someone might update every few days in the late. Nineteen ninety. s really doesn't apply anymore but i'll such online interactions and incidental or even trivial digital connections. Actually worth preserving what benefit is there for society in capturing and archiving the minutia of everyday online life. Well i think that part of it is just a open so much more possibility and so much more richness you know if you think about the work of historians which fours relies heavily on archives. Very few lives historically have been documented and they tended to be the powerful the wealthy very very small slices of society in fact historians. I would say this is. A broad generalization have become much more interested in the last fifty years so years in trying to understand the life of just regular people in all walks of life in the societies of the past and they've looked very hard to try and find records and documentation and things that can help them understand those lives and depending on the historical period often not that much survived. Now you see people in all walks of life capturing things they see things they experience in short videos and posting and the richness of that record is just astounding. You know when you think about catastrophes that occur or major events protests hurricanes floods the extent of the documentation of that today is just tremendous. Now this i think does genuinely create a challenge for future historians sociologists and other scholars as well as just people who want to understand the past on a non-professional basis about how do we manage this wealth of information which is just so huge that nobody can go through at all anymore so. I think that we're seeing a lot of very interesting thinking now about well. Now that we have this amazing thing how do we really think about exploiting it and learning from it. You always future tents on aren. Abc radio national exploring the world around us looking for the pathways ahead and signposting the future the perils of preservation and the agonies of archiving in the modern technological world. That's our topic today. I'm antony fennell. Finally to one of the first and the biggest web archive is optimal. Hi my name is mark graham. The director of the way back machine at the internet are today we archive more than a billion. Url's a day. There are nearly six hundred billion web pages that have been are type in the way back machine and this is all to serve a mission. The mission of the internet archive is universal access. To all knowledge. The mission of the way back machine project is to help make the web more useful and reliable by working really hard every day to back up as much of the public web as is reasonably possible. The internet archive was first established back in the mid nineteen ninety s and since then it's overcome many difficulties in trying to fulfil itself proposed mission for much of the first part of the century. The online world was a reasonably open place. But not so much anymore. In the past decades has mark graham political and commercial reasons have combined to make the work of the archive and it's way back machine all the more difficult. The top twenty some news sites at least in the west and in america and europe almost every single one of them. The guardian will be an exception is pay walled in some fashion. Some of these sites may allow you to see three or five articles a month per ip number or something like that but more and more while the information. That's vitally important to a healthy society locked behind a paywall. I did a google search last week for treatment for kovac and the first search results. They came up from new sites across the top. All three of them were behind a paywall. The flip side of that is true as well. Which is that information. Which may not be researched may not be.

clifford lynch coalition for networked inform rebecca cremona clifford lynch washington dc Abc radio antony fennell mark graham amazon europe america kovac google
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

07:40 min | 9 months ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"It's this horrible or wonderful catch. Twenty two where the things that you most wish would stay forever disappear and the things that you most wish would go away argest everywhere often. We think are digitize that that's it that's preserved. Walk away from that. It'll be site for the future but look everybody. Today is how fast technology moves on. So just because it's digital doesn't mean the disdain preserved forever whole world that we are living in right now a world that we would obviously like to give to posterity. We'd like to ride for the history of the future that we would like to provide for cultures of the future to build on might be more inaccessible than any debt civilization. The cliche is that one something guys up online. It's up there. If that embarrassing photo your friends at while you were drunkenly stumbling around all that naively inappropriate comedy posted on the social media platform when you were fifteen feeling kind of angry with the world. Remember joey do the one that god shed four hundred fifty thousand times. It's all up there forever. But of course it's not. The internet has a memory problem and some of what we're losing all could potentially lose has significance and value. Hello antony fennell here. Welcome to future tense. And a show about archives archivists and the growing challenges of preserving the digital recalled. Let's start with harvard law school and research they've just conducted into what's called link. Rot class stanton so. We were very lucky to work with the digital team at the new york times and they shared all of the externally facing hyper links that had been used on their website new york times dot com since nineteen ninety six when it first launched an externally facing mean websites that were not new york times dot com or to a social media sites that is controlled by the time. So is like a citation or find out more information. Type of url. There were over. Two million of those seventy two percent of them were what we call deep links which is for example a url. That looks something like new york times dot com slash article versus just the general website new york times dot com when a journalist uses a deep plank. It's two point into really specific information. It's important for their argument in the article and we basically wrote a script that opened every single one of those hyperlinked to see if there was still content at the other end. The audio of lincroft comes in a link that wants took you somewhere but now only leads to a four. Oh four era message. So what did clear and her colleagues find after all that digging around of those deep links twenty five percent of them had a four zero four error so there was nothing at the other end of that link and it got worse over so it two thousand eighteen articles from that time only six percent of the links had rotted but as you go backwards forty three percent of lakes from two thousand eight or completely gone and seventy two percent of them from nineteen ninety eight or completely gone and then the kind of big number that we saw was that of all of the articles that contained a deep like at all over half of them. Had one rotted. Lincoln it would you findings consistent with previous studies looking at link road they were so this is a study that is very similar to one also conducted by one of the co-authors of this study back in two thousand fourteen looking at the legal field so specifically there are journals student journals written at our law school at harvard law school that use a lot of citation and then also the supreme court in their opinions on occasion use. Url's dot study similarly found that over half of the links in the supreme court's opinions that they publish which are part of our law were routed and it was even worse for our law journals which is a huge part of our academic record that was almost seventy percent of those links. Were completely gone just wrote a coup. What's your what does your research suggest. Well there's lots of reasons that something on the internet could be different from the time that someone published a link when it's a really hard for a four air like we were talking about that link not found it could be something like the person who is maintaining. That website stopped paying for the domain and the website. Just completely goes down. That's kind of an extreme case. Another reason that it could happen is something. That's just kind of inevitable in part of the way that the internet works. Which is that. it's kind of a living document. A really good example. That i use a lot of the time is in the united states when we have turnover in the presidential administration the website for whitehouse dot gov which will always be theoretically the most up-to-date information about what's going on in the white house gets handed over to a completely new set of people and they do an overhaul of the content of that website and the structure of how the different sections of policy positions of the president at that time. So a link from president obama's white house daca that might appear in a new york. Times article is inevitably going to rot when a new administration takes over and completely overhauled website. So it's this thing with the internet. That really one of the strengths of the web is that it can't change it can be updated. It's where you find the best end newest information but because of that there is this instability within the fundamental structure itself so link roads can be positive as you say in terms of updating because we want the web obviously to be dynamic can be a very annoying for people particularly researches and journalists. But you and your colleagues you don't you that there's also collective memory issue if society. How so there have been people working in a cultural heritage and archival world for a very long time to preserve the historic record and they have wonderful policies and procedures in ways that they preserve what is happening so that it can be studied. In the future. I think the reality of the internet and our continued reliance on like i was describing this living document. Is that the pace of the need for that. Preservation is so much faster. There's really a danger that as link rot becomes more prevalent which as we learned it simply will just because of time. There's going to be this whole in our historical record when archivists and librarians can't get to this content quick enough to save it and preserve it for the future so we think that there really should be some work done between the folks who are writing the historical record and the folks who are preserving the historical record to bring some of that archival practice in some of that thought about preserving things into the future a little bit farther up in the workflow so if journalists are working with librarians from the day that they write that article likelihood that will be able to capture on preserve their citations in a moment skyrockets. Because we're doing it at the time and it's there for when we're looking back at the historical record..

new york times antony fennell harvard law school stanton joey supreme court Lincoln white house united states obama new york
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

06:09 min | 10 months ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Losing industry all over the country and they're moving to moving to other places a lot of moving to mexico. Don't underestimate it's like the new china on a smaller level but like the new china so we will bring our jobs back sean. We're going to bring our jobs. Assures you're sitting that we are going to bring our jobs back into this country for the first it's a popular populace narratives built on people's fees about the offshore outsourcing of jobs and the rise of automation. Those fees may be well placed but our understanding of the specifics of outsourcing and automation is fuzzy to say the least blurred by political spin industry. Mistreats and media hype. Hello antony fennell here. Welcome is always to future tense. The reality as we'll say is that the globalized labor market is far more interesting complicated and messy than one might imagine. Let's start with the labor cost advantage for decades now. Companies in the rich west have been moving their operations to developing countries in order to drive down their labor costs. A country like china for example attracted considerable foreign investment because wages were low but that dynamic has begun to shift dr chris hartley assistant professor of asian and policy studies at the education university of hong kong. Well i think labor cost advantages. Getting wiped out and automation is one component of that. Of course there are other forces that are prompting that as well it. Coastal china as productivity per worker has increased so to have wages per worker. And that's why we've seen a bit of an exodus of the very low. Skilled manufacturing jobs from china already and even from northeast asia two parts of southeast asia with labor cost structure is very low so i think that's certainly one element is kind of a natural evolution of incomes gradually increasing especially in least developed countries. But i also think of course that automation is is certainly playing a big part as well obviously producers face labor costs is one of their most significant input costs. They're interested in replacing those not only with cheaper ways of producing things but also sort of more reliability regularity etc. That obviously can be programmed into automation. That sort of may take more effort or have less predictability when dealing with humans so as these jobs kind of move off to southeast asia. We have to wonder and then other parts of the developing world. We have to wonder what point those countries are going to lose their labor cost advantage and as we have seen a situation in which those labor cost advantages are actually producing momentary gains for countries. But many of these countries will not see those kind of labor cost advantages in the long run and we call upon them therefore to parlay those momentary advantages and the economic gains from those advantages into investment in education infrastructure and those other types of things that will allow them to capture the mid level or high value added production that they may be competitive for the future and yet we know from the experience i india or the philippines that there are lots of people with pilot degrees. Who even currently at the moment can't find employment so a focus on employment and upskilling as they often say is not necessarily the full answer. Is it no absolutely. I mean even breakdown types of skill levels in inter variety of different ways you can think of routine cognitive routine manual non-routine cognitive and non routine manual or whatever of ways. You want to look at that. And it's sort of the the non-routine cognitive jobs at an increasing. Since the nineties and the non-routine manual whereas retain cognitive oath routine types have been stagnant. So this is kind of a structural challenge that is not unique to the western world and certainly in india where increasing percentage of the population is being college educated and is going onto a into a labor market that needs to produce eight million jobs a year just to maintain current employment levels. The situation is fraught and we see this in china as well college degree is certainly no guarantee of economic mobility and underemployment will be a substantial in places like this. They're sort of numerous forces. That are behind this. And another thing that i i like to consider in terms of assuming that the market will continue to provide jobs for mid and high school level are the constraints to growth itself so the limits to growth include population growth but also including logical constraints as well which i think should be a conversation that's had in conjunction with automation in this whole transformation of labor because we can't assume that as has happened since the early twentieth century that we're going to have the kind of population explosion. We had the kind of explosion in quality of life in coming out of poverty et cetera. The twenty-first central quite a different story. And we have to consider not only sort of ecological population strengths to deb. What we consider the political outcomes it as well to something. We're very interesting in the latest density of robot wick index released by the ifi the international federation of robotics south korea is at the top and the us is at number six. China often self described as the world's factory comes in at number fourteen but automation in the people's republic is rapidly rising says the ifi's suzanne bela. It's quite way down has called up a lot in the past years and what comes. Additionally is that you have many. Many workers in manufacturing industry china has huge share of workers in manufacturing industry As a lot of still manual work. So there's a lot of work still done manually. So the rumour density gives you good feeling. How industrialized or how. Robo times the country is having a huge growth rate overall. compound annual growth rate in past.

china antony fennell dr chris hartley education university of hong k asia sean mexico Coastal india philippines ifi international federation of ro suzanne bela deb south korea us
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

04:57 min | 2 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Hello Antony Fennell. Welcome to future tense on our in Matt would like to think that counterculture movements have a vibrant future. He's not happy happy that they so often become commercialized mainstream. But what if we've misunderstood the role of counterculture all along. What if it's future facing role is as part of the natural cycle of capitalism? It's counterintuitive thought and it's the one we'll explore today the only duty as Americans to fight for our country Wall Street was meant to be the beginning of a great counterculture movement it was loud attention grabbing and ultimately totally successful. Even one of its main organizers eventually founded highly derivative my name is Michael White and I am the author of the end of protest best and also the CO creator of Occupy Wall Street. I started when I was thirteen my experiences activists since thirteen has been that we've seen basically a change in what the objective is. You know like if you talk to activists in the eighteenth nineteenth and twentieth century the goal of activism but goal of protests the goal of social movements was revolution. It was to take control of the government to put in a better government and then make positive change for everyone whereas in the twenty first century is become social marketing marketing activism has become about spreading ideas changing the way people see the world and like those are positive and good things but that is not what activism is really about activism is supposed to be about positive transformative social change. That's political that's inherently political. What's going on here is that there's different paradigms or ways of understanding how we're going to achieve social change through activism and the dominant paradigm is basically? This idea that social change is going to result from getting large numbers. The people to do certain behaviors in the streets in the material in the natural world. And so if you stop believing though in the possibility and desirability of revolution then the behavior that you start to ask people become purely performance because there's nothing else to ask them to do so that's why we started doing these large spectacular marches and stuff like that so I think that that activism has become about performance is a symptom of that. There's nowhere else to go when you don't really believe in revolution if you had talked to like the Great Revolutionaries Mary's of the twentieth century and all this kind of stuff you know. They're living under tremendous hardship. That never talked about the goal of revolution and activism. Being Somehow feel good so I think that one of the things is is that we've replaced transformative change with other goals so going to protest marches like the equivalent of going to see a show or see a concert. It's like a way of connecting with friends and these are all good and great and fine but again if that's the primary objective of activism protests. Dead take listen YOU LISTEN TO I. I don't know what is wrong. And if the performance of decorative creative co cruised side of counterculture that makes it so open to commercialization and it's always been that way says doctors. Fan Broad Merckel Assistant Justin Professor of advertising an integrated marketing communications at Bond University. Even back in the fabled sixties and seventies on on a cultural level there was of course a huge rift between the counter culture movement protesting against consumerism and mess societies and the ideas say the establishment had about how society is supposed to be run however on a kind of entrepreneurial. Yeah no you're lever. They're probably not that far apart because think about capitalism just as a kind of broader system the capitalist list system then when it comes to profit motives doesn't really care that much where the prophet is coming from so as soon as I get. The kind of niche is culture that makes itself available in terms of new lifestyles and new products. They are looking into its business. Opportunity for for the KAPITULA systems. Such there might be individual capitalist using the language counterculture language who might be opposed to certain values values coming out of the cocoa but overall the system really doesn't care if there's a new market that can be exploited from a capitalist point of view. Yeah let's go for it like to buy the world a home and furnish.

Matt Michael White Antony Fennell Bond University Justin Professor
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

04:57 min | 2 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Hello Antony Fennell. Welcome to future tense on our in Matt would like to think that counterculture movements have a vibrant future. He's not happy happy that they so often become commercialized mainstream. But what if we've misunderstood the role of counterculture all along. What if it's future facing role is as part of the natural cycle of capitalism? It's counterintuitive thought and it's the one we'll explore today the only duty as Americans to fight for our country Wall Street was meant to be the beginning of a great counterculture movement it was loud attention grabbing and ultimately totally successful. Even one of its main organizers eventually founded highly derivative my name is Michael White and I am the author of the end of protest best and also the CO creator of Occupy Wall Street. I started when I was thirteen my experiences activists since thirteen has been that we've seen basically a change in what the objective is. You know like if you talk to activists in the eighteenth nineteenth and twentieth century the goal of activism but goal of protests the goal of social movements was revolution. It was to take control of the government to put in a better government and then make positive change for everyone whereas in the twenty first century is become social marketing marketing activism has become about spreading ideas changing the way people see the world and like those are positive and good things but that is not what activism is really about activism is supposed to be about positive transformative social change. That's political that's inherently political. What's going on here is that there's different paradigms or ways of understanding how we're going to achieve social change through activism and the dominant paradigm is basically? This idea that social change is going to result from getting large numbers. The people to do certain behaviors in the streets in the material in the natural world. And so if you stop believing though in the possibility and desirability of revolution then the behavior that you start to ask people become purely performance because there's nothing else to ask them to do so that's why we started doing these large spectacular marches and stuff like that so I think that that activism has become about performance is a symptom of that. There's nowhere else to go when you don't really believe in revolution if you had talked to like the Great Revolutionaries Mary's of the twentieth century and all this kind of stuff you know. They're living under tremendous hardship. That never talked about the goal of revolution and activism. Being Somehow feel good so I think that one of the things is is that we've replaced transformative change with other goals so going to protest marches like the equivalent of going to see a show or see a concert. It's like a way of connecting with friends and these are all good and great and fine but again if that's the primary objective of activism protests. Dead take listen YOU LISTEN TO I. I don't know what is wrong. And if the performance of decorative creative co cruised side of counterculture that makes it so open to commercialization and it's always been that way says doctors. Fan Broad Merckel Assistant Justin Professor of advertising an integrated marketing communications at Bond University. Even back in the fabled sixties and seventies on on a cultural level there was of course a huge rift between the counter culture movement protesting against consumerism and mess societies and the ideas say the establishment had about how society is supposed to be run however on a kind of entrepreneurial. Yeah no you're lever. They're probably not that far apart because think about capitalism just as a kind of broader system the capitalist list system then when it comes to profit motives doesn't really care that much where the prophet is coming from so as soon as I get. The kind of niche is culture that makes itself available in terms of new lifestyles and new products. They are looking into its business. Opportunity for for the KAPITULA systems. Such there might be individual capitalist using the language counterculture language who might be opposed to certain values values coming out of the cocoa but overall the system really doesn't care if there's a new market that can be exploited from a capitalist point of view. Yeah let's go for it like to buy the world a home and furnish.

Matt Michael White Antony Fennell Bond University Justin Professor
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

10:25 min | 2 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Be pegged the median income impetuosity. which is what we did in the post will air entirely bankrupt and yet managed to build several hundred thousand homes? Yeah so I would argue for reten to to nazi-era warehousing is seen as a as a kind of human rights rather than as a jaw sets You're listening to future tense. I'm Antony Fennell. The so-called financialisation of housing has also found form the growth in usage of short term leasing platforms like AIRBNB. And this is Dr Laura Kremlin's area of interest she's with the city Futures Research Center at the University of New South Wales. We looked at the impact of AIRBNB and short term lending more broadly on housing affordability and access to housing in in Sydney and Melbourne. And we found that there is an impact in terms of affordability in concentrated pots of big cities particularly areas that are really popular in a city in beachside areas. Those kinds of places and we also found that it's changing the way people think about their options in terms of housing how they might use housing thing to make money what they might do. In terms of investment in the future raising issues there in terms of inequalities between people who already in the housing market and those who aren't and so. So what are we talking about. In terms of impact how impactful I mean some of those areas you say up to some between ten and fifteen percent of properties that might otherwise bay in the rental market that are in in short term leading starts to significant number. Now whether all of those would actually go back into long term rental if they will obey will band tomorrow that's not clear and certainly one one of the things that we found. Is that some of the people we spoke to a hosts like the flexibility of moving their property around in sometimes having an empty sometimes having someone in there. So you can't say that you definitely get a direct translation. Back into long term rental bought some of those properties. Undoubtedly would go back into being homes for people for long-term rather than being license for people visiting staying short-term to living from your research is there a particular impact on low income renters these things flow through the system and inevitably the people with the fewest resources. Bear the brunt of it. These are already again areas of their cities that are relatively expensive. So you know tracing a direct connection. It doesn't necessarily work but the people in those areas who might have to move a little bit further out than displaced people in the next sub across and so it goes so you know when when you're looking at affordability I think the greatest concern needs to always bay for the people who have the fewest resources because they're the ones that hit the hottest you also found in you that there was an impact don the investment market. In what way we spoke to host as I said and many of them sort of told us that you know this has opened up a new way of thinking about property in about housing housing and the options. I think in a broader sense one of the things that flows from these kinds of technological changes is that it's another way in which the people who are already in the housing market. Get an extra advantage of people who aren't so people say oh yeah my you know stay in my lodge house for a long period because I can rent a bit of it out and cover some of my costs all thinking about options. In terms of beach houses or second properties Peres in another city. Those sorts of things become an an option for people who already have housing resources and can capitalize on those to expand their investments. So I think as well as the sort of fina immediate impact we might say some impact over time as they sorts of options. Make it even harder for people who aren't yet in the market to getting. Because the people there monetize the assets in new and valuable ways Laura Crumlin finally today literature to Timothy More and another interesting urban in residential trend that he's been studying co living generally refers to communal living outside of a traditional family structure where multiple people share a single dwelling or shed house with as many historical examples. And I'm sure many people have experienced it from the caboose to student dormitories to share houses even older models of like Chinese round houses. But I'm I'm really interested in court leaving in its current context which looks at the expanded idea of share house organized by a corporation usually at the scale of apartment building. So it's kind of like the hotel one of the home and Timothy more calls this new form of banking in the corporate is living model and it certainly seems to be growing in popularity online so in a culprit is co leaving model occupants rent private bedroom space similar to a dormitory when I mean bedroom. Space I'm talking could be as low as ten square meters and it's on a rolling contract contract for weeks or months but often shaving working spaces so it's kind of lack corporatization of the commune here or domes. GROWNUPS so who's actually taking up this option option and what are the reasons. They're taking it up like this. Corporate is co living model. It's really accessible for people in above average incomes and usually wealthy economies so when you look at his corporate is his car leaving models you see them in London. Amsterdam Madrid Miami Avenue votes not just people wealthy economies itself but also places with Iraq to holiday and why above above middle income is because the price points installing dolls would start at four hundred seventy dollars per week for a bit dramatic dolman trained for a lot of people at that's way above the average income. It's also interesting sitting to look at who is allowed to enter living space one of these corporate models. So I've been looking at many case studies from around the world and if you look at the Chinese brand new plus which has has about ten thousand people across twenty five branches to have stipulations on. WHO's allowed in so people over forty five or discouraged couples with children although the that are antisocial and not? I'm not sure what that actually means a not permitted and also give preference to take entrepreneurs so if you look at brought a transient Australia. You're finding that doesn't increase in multigenerational living so that wouldn't be allowed. Lots of these cooperatives models and you can't really establish places with your friends so it's really about the individual young maybe around thirty white collar so it's very particular and does this appeal to the same type of people who would be interested site in co working spaces. I mean it. It feels very similar. Doesn't it in in terms of the philosophy of it all. I think it's branded in a very similar way. And with some of these core living spaces for example you co in Sydney and Kinney Redfin they do offer co working space in the CD's so you not only are you living but you're also co working as well which sounds a lot to me like never leaving the office but is this more than just a fad bad there's a lot of hyperbole around this market segment and if you look at it per building you've got about thirty to five hundred people building and if you look at the Australian market is probably just a few she thousand people and if you look at a at a global I've documented about one hundred coalition spaces so there's hundreds of thousands of people so at so hyped at the moment I would actually say it's a mole market segment a very small market segment and it's really appealing to a particular type of person very much. So now how much of this relates to financial pressures the financial pressures issues of being a young person in the modern workforce. And how much of it is about social interaction. It is about social interaction if you think of upwardly mobile white collar workers who moving to another city. It's often hard to make friendship networks except through your workplace so it does really appeal to people who had just finished university moving to another city. That looking for new friends four affordability reasons. I actually don't think it's anything to do with housing affordability because it's four hundred. Seventy two five hundred fifty dollars Poe wig. That's actually at a high market value when you could probably find a rental property on the market price so it really is about promoting the social interaction and if you look at what these core leaving spaces offer you've got that private bedrooms are really compress. Is Private Space of ten to twenty square made which really forces you out into the communal areas where often it's heavily programmed around things like Yoga workouts dinners and film nights as well so not only. Do you get a bedroom but you also get a social calendar too. So it's not disrupting the rental market. Then because I've seen literature that says that they sees a you know this is is changing the way in which the rental market will operate. Oboe has the potential to do that. In my opinion it's a sub segment in broader market. That I think is disrupting the rental market. which is the bill to rent muddle and you know that category looking at Whip Haman to build not to be sold off but to be rented that's really interested in this context where there's a car flattening of the investment property market? So there's a potential we're here to attract more occupants building because the space is compressed. So if you'll bedroom small and you don't need the laundry in the kitchen then you can fit a lot more people in the building so this bill l.. To rent market I think may stop disrupting the broader housing market. But I think the culprit is leaving mode will not itself does it constitute a change in our understanding of what we main by the home environment. Yeah I I think. At the moment we were going through this period. Where there's a hotel is out of the home with kind of hybrid of hotel and home and I think it's for we'll send raisins where we have hotel service for long-term Brenta's one as I think we see reality? TV shows and we see people as marketing himes. And I also think that we see the convergence of ideals sales of pinterest and Instagram as well so people have to present the housing a certain way but I also think there's growing consumer changes as well particularly where you see Loin. Peasant household is really the increasing in strength. I think about one quarter of all households by two thousand thirty will be single individuals. So I feel like this is responding to that by offering a new version of this but I feel it's not just about changing living habits but it's also a transformation and digital technologies as well where we are seeing access not ownership as being a priority radio junkie generations. And you see music digitized. So you don't have your your records oil type so you say days anymore your photo albums during the cloud you can even get. Your dog. Walked by Petronas. I can rent a dog for the day. You've got food delivery service like Fidora deliver a berates where you say that the compression of the kitchen because most people ought cooking at a younger generation nations so I think there is a compression of domestic space. Solve the highmore. The apartments is and we're talking about inner city Australia because the complete opposite is happening on the outskirts of CDs but definitely on the inner city in apartments. We all seen a compression of the home even commit compression of the bedroom. You know you see people working on their beds with laptops because is this neighboring for that desk in the apartment anymore architect timothy more. We also heard today from Laura Crumlin Oliver Wainwright and Andrew Nimmo and this is future tense. I'm Anthony.

Timothy More AIRBNB Sydney University of New South Wales Dr Laura Kremlin Antony Fennell Futures Research Center Laura Crumlin Australia Amsterdam Laura Crumlin Oliver Wainwrigh Peres Fidora London Melbourne Haman Oboe Kinney Redfin
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

02:11 min | 2 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"<Music> <Music> <Music> <Speech_Music_Male> next week. As I mentioned <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> earlier we <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> move into our Christmas <Speech_Music_Male> New Year Shea schedule <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> which means <Speech_Music_Male> over the next five <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> weeks we'll replay <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> some of our <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> favorite episodes of <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> future tense from the past <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> year. <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> Here to walk us through <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> what we can expect <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> is my co producer Jason <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> and colleague. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> Current <SpeakerChange> Savannah. <Speech_Female> <Advertisement> VHS Curran <Speech_Female> well we start <Speech_Female> with street art. <Speech_Female> Our cities <Speech_Female> are facing a race <Speech_Female> for urban space <Speech_Female> at street <Speech_Female> artists turn graffiti graffiti <Speech_Female> into art <Speech_Female> advertisers <Speech_Female> see future <Speech_Female> prophets <Speech_Female> and even <Speech_Female> city officials are increasingly <Speech_Female> on bought. <Speech_Female> Then <Speech_Female> me reminisce about <Speech_Female> three cultural classics <Speech_Female> <Speech_Female> nine thousand nine hundred. Four <Speech_Female> brave new world <Speech_Female> into satirical <Speech_Female> film network. <Speech_Female> Each <Speech_Female> thought to foretell <Speech_Female> the future. So <Speech_Female> what kind of <Speech_Female> their predictions <Speech_Female> next up <Speech_Female> future doom. <Speech_Female> We are off <Speech_Female> more pessimistic <Speech_Female> about future <Speech_Female> unnecessary <Speech_Female> and that impacts <Speech_Female> our ability <Speech_Female> to plan and make <Speech_Female> informed decisions and <Speech_Female> and <Speech_Female> we also revisit <Speech_Female> pencil towers <Speech_Female> super <Speech_Female> thin skyscrapers. <Speech_Female> Changing the <Speech_Female> cityscape of <Speech_Female> New York. There <Speech_Female> shake expensive <Speech_Female> and alternate <Speech_Female> symbols <Speech_Female> of rising <Speech_Female> herb inequality <Speech_Female> and <Speech_Female> finally <Speech_Female> talented cultural <Speech_Female> movements <Speech_Female> they start as <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> radical protests <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> but all took quickly <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> turned commercial. <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> Some <Speech_Female> say they are simply <Speech_Female> a function of consumer <Speech_Female> capitalism. <Speech_Music_Female> There's a <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> lot to look forward <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> to on future <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> tense <SpeakerChange> over the coming <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> five weeks. Wchs <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> am thank you very much <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> Karen <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> and before <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> we go make sure you mark <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> this in your diary <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> out. Twenty <Speech_Music_Male> twenty series <Speech_Music_Male> will begin in in <Speech_Music_Male> late January. <Speech_Music_Male> Our sound <Speech_Music_Male> engineers this year. <Speech_Music_Male> Were Steve Fieldhouse. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> Am <Speech_Music_Male> Dave white <Speech_Male> many thanks. <Speech_Male> I'm Antony Fennell. <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> Thank you for listening to us <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <SpeakerChange> until next six-time <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> cheese <Music>

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

09:50 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"It. This is future tense. I'm Antony Fennell and today we're looking at deny if now easy and cheap to sequence it's become a marketable commodity. But how effective is it? As a tool of prediction and for interrogating the past. Begun to sort of think that a lot of people almost look on DNA testing sort of the twenty first century example of reading tea leaves. They think it can do a lot more than in fact, it actually can John Terrel region Stein curator of Pacific anthropology at the field museum of natural history in Chicago there couple of sort of basic, biological facts. You've got to keep in mind, and it all begins with the fact that we inherit roughly half of our genes from our father and half from our mother, which means that we lose every time a baby is created. We lose the other half that doesn't get passed down from the mother and the other half that doesn't get passed down from the father. So in a sense, you're having sort of your genealogy, you're having your sort of genetic past sort of every time you reproduce child. So therefore with each generation half the genes witnessing our ancestors if you will are. Fli lost. And each generation you go back in time. Therefore, you're getting in a sense less and less information about who your ancestors were initially. I first generation or to all of your genealogical ancestors are also going to be your genetic ancestors. You can you can in fact, for example, if you've got a brother or sister missing you can in fact, a dentist by someone fairly substantially using genetics. But when you go back farther in the generations, the genes that you got from your mom and dad are just in effect to biased a sample to tell you who was or wasn't one of your actual ancestors and in truth, if you do the math, we are all descended from a huge number of ancestors from all over the world, but most of them we can't see through our jeans because we have no evidence left in our own genes. Two point in that direction. So in. Sense. We can't use genetics to reconstruct genealogy because the sample that we have in ourselves is just too biased. And and literally too small. As individuals racial identities. So intimately inscribed into the ways that we see inexperience world and other people in it, but is often taken as a natural and unchanging fact of life races, social construction, meaning that the stigmas divisions associated with it are born how to political and cultural rather than purely biological factors. But it's also material reality nationalism rice has long been a problematic construct. It's used to group people together into categories, but in so doing it also increases divisions between those categories John tarot is one of those who believes the concept of rice needs to be abandoned that causes more harm than good. And he worries about the proliferation of profit based companies now dividing up people's DNA results into ethnicity based pie charts. Unfortunately, many of the commercial labs in particular sort of advertise their product, send us your spit, and we'll. Send you information in return in ways that that really make it sound like we're getting more than we can possibly get from our jeans and reporting it and not all labs do report the results this way, but reporting your results back as if you were say fifty two percent Scottish eighteen percent talian in all thirteen percent finish. And maybe a little bit of Neanderthal in what have you reporting the results back that way suggest that you are a mix of racism effect mix of ethnishity when in reality. What you are is a mix of genes and the genes literally that you have if you go back far enough in time connect you with everybody else on earth. So reporting him as if you are a mix of different ethnicities. I think in a very seemingly harmless way, but in a very real wake reinforces our. Commonsense stereotype that people on earth common, different kinds, and with different kinds that can be called communities or ethnicity or a feud aren't careful you might even use that old word race and races. And one of the problems that I have is an anthropologist interested in human genetics is that human beings have been social networking for literally thousands upon thousands upon thousands of years and people have been traveling from place to place for thousands and thousands of years. And so the idea that once upon a time we were divided up into pure communities pure races, pure ethnicities is a complete fiction, and yet when you get results reported back to you about your fifty two percent this thirteen percent the hat, and what have you I think that resonates with the idea that that fiction canal be supported by science and the scientists call genetics and that's the. Subtle message that I'm afraid of a fiction because the genetic differences between peoples he's actually minute is that what you're saying. Well, I mean, let's begin with the fact that generally speaking, we find our mates outside our immediate families and the bits and pieces that we call jeans inside us, not only come down to us from countless numbers of people, both male and female who lived in the past. But except under very rare circumstances. Those countless people's also lived here there and somewhere else. So if we're a mix it's a mix of genes, not a mix of ethnic cities. The reality is not only can we not really use our genes to pin down our ancestors. Once you get say six or seven generations back in time. But we also can't use our genes to pin down tick user. Where those ancestors come from. And but said that to that that when you look at both European history. But when you look at the archaeology of movements. What have you people have been moving around on awful lot for thousands of years, and they have been meeting, and they have been mixing if you wanna call it it's called sex. So that we just have the wrong sort of starting idea that people once upon a time lived in small communities, we add often to that the idea that human beings are somehow basically down deep inside tribal and aggressive, and therefore these small communities were probably at war with one another. You know, the, you know, the story, but in reality, and you can see it you can see it. For example, NEW GUINEA has the reputation of being a land of sort of violence small communities. I work in NEW GUINEA and believe me, that's that's the opposite of what really goes on their NEW GUINEA is a place that is intimately interconnected from play. To place by social networks by trade networks by people moving here in there and by peeping. Yes, they're they're the violent side of nature does occasionally erupt and people do have to flee, but it's a kind of bubbling pot. It's not a world of it's not a checkerboard. It's it's a social network John Terrel from the field museum of natural history. In Chicago, if you found today's topic fascinating or intriguing both I can recommend a recent speech on the difficulties of Danae testing by geneticists Caitlyn Curtis. Her presentation at the world science festival was recorded recently for the RN program or comes razor, his taste recently. Two identical twins put five of the DNA ancestry companies to the test. And this provides a really interesting look at how this process works. The raw data for each twin was thousand nine percent identical. And this shows that the way the companies produce. Raw data is quite accurate. The shocking thing though, is that the companies provided each twin with slightly different ancestry estimates for the first company. The I got twenty five percent eastern European and the second thought twenty eight percent just to be clear. This shouldn't happen because identical twins have the same DNA. Even more surprising, one company said the twins were thirty-five percent Italian. But another said that they were twenty percent Greek a lot of this is based on the size of the databases that they're using as a reference, and who's in the databases, and very importantly who's been left out. Caitlyn Curtis and you can find a link to the full presentation on the future tense website counts benefits is my co producer here of future tense. I'm Antony Fano until next time cheese. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

John Terrel Chicago Caitlyn Curtis GUINEA field museum of natural ABC Antony Fennell Pacific anthropology Antony Fano producer fifty two percent thirteen percent thousand nine percent twenty eight percent
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

12:28 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"This is an ABC podcast. You are young. You are in the most exciting age to bid geneticists term. I believe bother just to nets Lawrence host. When the human genome was sequenced result the fest sequence it took about fifteen years two point seven billion dollars. It was a worldwide effort split between the continents just massive huge expensive breathtakingly slow. I mean, major major you do. But now, we literally can sequence a whole human DNA full will certainly lesson thousand US dollars skating down to sub one hundred dollars we consent. He do today, and is prospect that we may even be able to do it tonight. Our so. Chains joss breathtaking. But what this means is the way before we could study one human genomes at all that's the human genome. We then compare that to the later arrived jeans Jim gorilla on Scifo. Now, we can go in and we can Siri sequence huge of individuals in Polk license because is incredibly easy just to go off in Kelsey thousand times today. Good undo that it would have taken several years before now. But now we can do a couple of days. Just amazing. Amazing all side of the genomic testing has now gone mainstream and commercial getting your genome sequenced is difficult as spitting in a tube and popping it in the mail. Hello and welcomes always to future tense. I'm Antony Fennell. In this program are growing fascination for out own deny a tool for interrogating the past and predicting the future. But what does it all mean? And how useful is the. No, you can gain from a DIY genetics taste. I'll put these are exceptionally clever. Deep inside our sounds as chemical could DNA DNA so can instruction Magno controlling. How bodyworks these is twenty seventeen with the commercial director consumer DNA testing exploded. According to Katherine Wang from Boston University school of public health driven by proliferation of DNA, interpreting apps and heavy marketing from genealogy tracking sites like ancestry dot com. So we did a survey a couple years ago, we thought well, let's just see who's really coming in because they're just an ancestry reasons who's coming in because of health reasons, and and who are really may be really interested in both the folks that kind of interested like indicated high interest in both areas was about forty percent. So I think more people often indicate they're here for ancestry, and they don't want the health info. But there is a good subset of those people who do want the health as well. And that's when you see people coming in maybe through one. Avenue like Angola, one company. That's purely Francis. Two reasons, but then realizing that hey, there's more I can do with DNA. Why not why not learn more about this, and I can pay five dollars or twenty dollars over here to an app. Upload my Roddy, Anna and learn more about my information. Wouldn't that be a good thing to have and one person who went through that exact experience was flu Radford loan? Pier. She paid only a couple of hundred dollars to have her entire genome. Sequenced what I was hearing and trying to understand in my basic scientific sort of understanding was that they were really quite useful markets for things like major diseases. And so because I had a child five years ago, you just sort of get to that place where you wanna know a bit more. So it felt like this was a way contribute to the sort of things. We would have done years ago as soon as you had kids. Get your parents medical histories is this was a more complex way of getting medical history. So you see in a sense what? As a kind of a preventative step as he 'Wij in terms of disease is that right? Definitely. So that's that's certainly even just the tip of the Osberg of what this certainly suggesting that can be done by having your J nine. There is certainly very well regarded predictive things like the dementia the diabetes those major illnesses Karner outage, Autry disease. But once I got my genome done I found that the research actually did things like car alight negative reactions to certain drugs potential resistance to certain viruses, so huge amounts of positive benefits. At I could say that I can drive from having this sort of information so Flers experience was opposed of one. But that's not always the case. Katherine Wang says well, sequencing DNA can reveal useful health information. What's crucial is the way? It's interpreted for us when we're looking at all the genetic technology. What we care about his accuracy from a lot of different vantage points. And so when we first did some work in looked at what's happening when people are doing this Roddy interpretation. So let's just say you take your Agani that you got from Astra Danna or from twenty three me, and you send it off to third party company. And it didn't as you at high risk. We have some high risk variant for breast cancer. And that's really how we started looking at some of this work was that somebody. This is exactly what happened. They landed in clinic and started coming to us and asking what's going on here. I am concerned about my breast cancer risk, and we found out that use an app and realized that we had never heard of this company and try to figure out what the variant was that they were concerned about and lumber we realized with a genetic counselor. That was overseeing the case basically ended up counting the woman indicating that this wasn't really something that she had to be concerned about. And so these are what we call false positives. And we've seen a couple of studies today indicating that it's suggesting that the false positive rate for someone who goes down this r-. Out and takes their body and from a nasty type company loads it into these other sort of third party, apps and services that can interpret your DNA for health that about forty percent of the time they're wrong, which is concerning both psychologically from sort of a medical systems burden standpoint. And forty percent is a very high number, isn't it that is very high number. And actually, I'm seeing even more recent data that's going to be presented soon at a conference that it may be higher. The most common result said anybody can get if they do get something relevant is going to find out their carrier for some result, some condition, and what we hear a lot of as that. You know? My DNA wasn't really interesting. I didn't learn anything. I already didn't know there wasn't anything earth shattering or shocking from a health standpoint. But what you do here is on occasion, you dear here something where especially in the cancer context. Usually where we see at the most cancers, very scary people see something they've heard of, you know, beer, say wanted to testing it's more on the public mind in terms of what this might mean. And that might be something that, you know, this trigger a lot of and brings people to clinic. But we really haven't seen anything that really gives us a sense that people have been extremely motivated to change their lifestyle changes behavior. If you look at general self report data people about a third of people while we say, yeah, I made some change. But it's not really specific. But the jury is still really out in terms of the impact this will have on people making these grand lifestyle changes are whatnot from direct to consumer type genetic testing exacerbating. The issue is the fact that third party DNA assistant Szots ebbs aren't being regulated the on selling of people's DNA. Test results does happen and given that we share so much DNA without relatives that has implications for whole families an ashtray standpoint, there's been a lot of issues that have been raised about unexpected consequences, whether it's unexpected paternity issues or there's a lot of concerns about privacy, and whether or not your DNA that you may or may not have uploaded is private anymore. You know, I came across an interesting article that came out in the fall talk in at least in the United States talking about how sixty percent of the European Americans here in this country can be identified regardless of whether or not you've sent in a DNA sample just because of. Of the ability to sort of track family histories and whatnot. Based on what's available through lot of these canonisations Katherine Wang from Boston University. So we using inexpensive commercial technology to interrogate out own deny as a kind of early warning system for disease, but we also as mentioned do it for genealogical reasons. And specifically for connection rather like an extension of social networking, according to psychologists, Paul Nicholson, I think last Christmas Christmas for last got my daughter to buy me the kid because I've been studying this, and I'm still getting I don't know probably about two people a week who writing to me that their relatives are actually no, I don't even really know how they fit and find somebody emailed me yesterday. And they want to talk to me she said that I'm a second cousin although actually have never heard anybody in any part of my extended family talking to. But I'm interested, obviously. People Email you and they tend to a bit about himself a new year respond. I've not actually personally had the feeling I wanted to meet anybody because well, I necessarily have anything in common with. Well, okay. I can take them off as somebody interesting. I know bit more about the my no what happened to my family where it scattered too. But whether I actually want to make any sort of in-depth contact with anybody or vice versa. Lay ready do as many. I'm not sure it's anything that exciting. I think it's more exciting to find out that exist rouses than to meet them. It sounds a little bit like collecting relatives. In the way that we sometimes collect friends on Facebook. I think it is. I think it's element there on the other hand. Sometimes you hear stories UC television programs where somebody is in tears because I just met long loss. Rather sister uncle who they had no idea they were still alive or they knew things about a not letting is amazing when something like that happens. But yes, I think I think Facebook element to agree people have small families now probably as well after generations ago, there were larger families become more interesting to find out who is around with also people. Looking for famous relatives Royal relatives that they can actually add not just to Facebook crowd. But to a sort of a sense of identity of who they really are. They're not just a secretary or or psychologists they've got really important routes gave Rishard in the past about what you call the project of the self. We know with social media that we we often highly cure, right? What we put on social media, and we pick and choose what bits of our our personalities. We want to display to the world. Do you find that people do that with genealogies? We'll do they do that with the end history that they dig up. I definitely think like do people are ways, looking the exception. Then looking with the Br selfie for the most beautiful. They can be pretty on Facebook put it on Instagram and everyone terrific, but not people go to psychotherapy and counselling as well curiosity about themselves and most of us even psychologists, maybe even especially psychologist. We can't always explain. How we feel? Why were we reaction a certain way sometimes looking at your jeans or just looking at the way, people behaved in your family of origin, or even where I live some sort of emotional geographies? But I think most people curious, and they want to go as far as possible to find out who they are. I didn't know where I was from ethnically. So we sent that sample often stray my ancestry. DNA results are that twenty six percent Jerian. I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about my culture put the a own my head, and I look into the mirror, and I was trying not to cry because it's a half. But it's like most importantly

Katherine Wang Facebook United States Roddy breast cancer Jim gorilla ABC Magno Lawrence Angola Antony Fennell Polk Karner commercial director Boston University school of pu Astra Danna Radford
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

08:16 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"This is an ABC podcast. It's meet morning, and I'm off to the Hague. What is the Royal flying? Doctor says in Brisbane Schill meeting with a couple of real dummies. Hello Antony Fennell here. This is feature tents. Maybe I should rephrase just say when I say dummies, I mean, real dummies so much better is it. I mean staff, of course, I'm talking about Doughmi top dummies like mannequins except the high tech variety because today's program is all about simulation about the way clever technology is being used in the medical world to train and to inform. Strives very plice very lodge plice with spas population. When someone leaves on a property alone wife, many Kedah, then they'd held the all fun. Doctor service is an amazing. We're going. Shen we provide emergency care and probably healthcare to allots loss over mud stri. It's an iconic service but its mission to make emergency medical care. Available industries ampakine regional areas is an expensive one in Queensland the RFID. Yes has justed up in you immersive training facility, and I'm off to meet Ronin Sweeney, their manager of clinical, training and development. Run at high. I Anthony how are you? Thanks. This is the Pacific through here. Please follow me. I'll bring you in. All right. Okay. What just explain this Rimkus? What are we looking at? Well, we're currently in the clinical innovation and learning center, which is dedicated towards supporting inter professional clinical training for doctors and nurses. It's a highly immersive space as you can see on the three walls, we have ICU setting. We have a mannequin on a stretcher in the middle of the room. And it looks like a typical intensive care setting. It looks like we're in a Theta, but the screen is all around your screen just pans around the room it does. So it's quite a reasonably excise room. So it's about four meters in diameter, and we have three walls wrapped with the I guess live dynamic intensive care unit. So you'll see people moving back and forth, and it gives that sense of being in an actual healthcare clinical space. The vision displayed on the walls can be changed at the push a button you can find yourself in a farmhouse on an as strip. Oh by the side of the road in the dusty outback. It's all about creating a Taylor. Of training environment. We're trying to bridge this gap between asking people to suspend their disbelief and actually the real clinical setting. And we're finding ready that we're gaining tremendous success and the feedback from participants is that this really does give them that extra bit of triggering. So that the critical thinking processes are happening more fluently and the beginning to accept that. This actually is a more of a lifelike environment that they're experiencing it's interactive as well, isn't it explained that that side of it too highly interactive what I might do is just grab this tablet, and it will allow me to change the environment. So what I'm going to do is put up a typical I guess red dirt type of setting that we might attend and that will give you an idea of the type of background that we can we can create. So this is quite interesting. So I'll just open this one up and what it can do over. Here is just show you on the other wall a button that will give us some vital signs. This is really important to moving the patient journey from a treatment pathway point of view for clinicians, and it's supporting the critical thinking, and so they may have performed interventions. Now, they get to see some of the vital signs. We also have a monitor on the wall. So as they apply sats, monitor to check oxygenation or non invasive blood pressure from the arm. We can begin to populate the other monitor up and the up on the wall with that kind of data for them. So it really does start moving the treatment plan forward, which is really important. Now, it's easy to see how this type of hightech simulated training environment can save time and money, but the elephant in the room. He's the dummy in the room, a freakish looking mannequin with moving is who really hasn't been taking care of himself. Can't read. So this mannequins quite unique because it has pillory reaction, it can we can recreate bloodshot eyes. We recreate a head injury. For example, where one people is blown pupil might be pinpoint for example, or an opiate overdose which opioids community, unfortunately are becoming more prevalent. And so that would be a wonderful trigger for a clinician. If they looked into the rise. They would begin to get these cues that will give them an idea. What's wrong? Then as we moved in the mannequin, we, of course, can talk through the mannequin. So we can be the voice we can allow for that patient interaction. If the patient has a level of consciousness, we can put blood fluid in the ears to create things like Cerebrospinal fluid supporting possible head injury. Evasive skull fracture. We can insulate the mannequin we can put in advanced Airways. We can also ventilate the patient. We can use a lot of our equipment that we carry such as say the Hamilton ventilator, we can incubate in them connect the mannequin to the ventilator just as they would do for. A real patient. We get rising full spontaneously in the chest. So in other words, this could be a breathing patient, but who has a weasel and the chest, not breathing at the moment. I have to say, but it was breathing before it was I just activated an acne state. So in other words, the mannequins not breathing intentionally. So that would give a strong Hugh to or clinicians that they need to do something quickly. So I guess medical professionals are used to training manikins. But this is a really this is a high tech advance mannequin is new it is it's all about supporting I guess the broad range of interventions because we employ creek care trained, doctors, nurses. So they're highly experienced the really the tip of the iceberg in terms of their experience and skill set. And so we need to be able to support that level of experience with an appropriate level of training and immersion in the clinical space. So there's a whole variety of tools will use. But this mannequin is a high fidelity mannequin. So we're represent many many patients states it can be quite challenging they walk in. And they're. Confronted with particular environment referendum varmint in the immersive space, and it could be one mannequin patient two mannequins patients that could actually be a person in the room who's playing the role of family members. Well, so while they're going through the training, you or other people could be could be monitoring the situation from outside. Exactly. So what we do is. We have a way glass or mirror behind us. And that's where the educator team will sit there able to push the scenario forward. We're able to record the scenario. So for example, if a couple of key moments in the scenario that we wanted to make some notes about to come back to in the debrief because the debrief is really where we can consolidate all of those key learning act comes, and that's where the best learning actually happens for the the clinicians involved, and we can play back certain components of the video that was recorded, and it can be very powerful and supporting their learning. It's very easy when you're in a pressurized environment to think you said or did something. But then to have, you know, the power of video playback to demonstrate the well as much as you know, you intended saying that didn't actually come at your in that scenario, and it's not to be used as a stick to be people. It's really a way of solving puzzles. Hurts. Elsewhere

Brisbane Schill Antony Fennell Kedah Doughmi ABC Ronin Sweeney Pacific Shen Queensland Anthony Hamilton Hugh four meters
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

05:14 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Field? Can be defined as marries obviously, something that fight contested. But I think it can be used by narrow rise within physical notes. If my talk say at the moment, and social it's talk with saying so in Britain in particular, one from we had a very increasing narrow test by system in which I need to foods of merit of regarded really as impose him, and I think that these become used politically ways of thinking about how people are achievable, but really will cut losing soy Gemelli of what it is to be. Well, rounded pass them what it is to learn of one psych learning. What is to be a good citizen example is something which is multiple we need to multiply think can think of multiple phones of merit the moneywise in which it's important to learn to be a human being that the different. Characteristics. That we have is people that reports in. This is future tense. I'm Antony Fennell and the only deal of Mira Tokyo. Sees what we're examining today. What real value does it have inputting to a more equitable society? Meritocracy has many detractors as we've heard, but there are the C believe we shouldn't wrought it off that it can still be used as a mains to build a better society. This is Tom mulligan. Thomas mulligan, visiting scholar at Georgetown University. As I see meritocracy is an ideal that commands support it's deal about adjusts state that people across ideological lines cultural lines lines of race gender can find consensus in certainly the United States today. We have an extremely divisive political culture the left in the right are apparently at loggerheads. Our political system is not working. Well, as a result of the distrust and a result of the inability to find consensus, and I think meritocracy has the potential to break through that partisan impasse to say, look, there are some ideals about how we ought to live together about which we can both agree, and they give rise to a certain set of public policies that we ought to pursue. So in the United States and elsewhere, we have this debate about affirmative action. And if you look at the polling, you see that blacks tend to support affirmative action whites. Tend to oppose the -firmative action. And the first thing people think which is very natural reasonable thing to thank as well. This is because lacks tend to benefit from affirmative action. Whites tend to lose out to affirmative action, which is correct. But in fact, you have to dig a little bit deeper than so if you do that you discover that lacks support affirmative action because they think it nullifies bias against them. Their reasoning is look we want the best qualified applicant to get the job that doesn't currently happen because there's racism there's bias in the workplace. Affirmative action offsets that bias ensures that the best qualified person gets hired on the other hand. Whites tend to use different reasoning tend to believe a different reasoning. Correct. Namely that while a primitive action gives people advantage on the basis of the color of their skin. It gives other people disadvantage. And so the best qualified applicant isn't hired. But in fact, the thing to note is that the deep moral principle the thing, that's really important. And you would think would be so hard to find agreement. On is shared that is both sides want. The best qualified applicant to be hired. They just disagree in practice about whether this policy does it or not. And I think meritocracy has the potential in a very divisive time to bring people together. The critics have meritocracy would say that one of the important issues is how you define merit and who defines merit. Do you see that as an issue as well? I think it is an issue. I don't think it's the most important issue. I think the most important fact about meritocracy to keep in mind is that it consists of two principles so one principle is an equal opportunity principle. It's the idea that there ought to be equal starting line for everyone in society, regardless of whether you're born into well, they're poverty, this location or that location, regardless of weather, you have certain personal connections or family connections that shouldn't affect your prospects. And the state has a role in equalizing opportunities. By for example, providing education to poor children. Preps universal healthcare means like this to equalize the playing field. So that's one meritocratic principle. Equal opportunity principle in the second principle is what we would call a distributive principal to principal about how the good things and the scarce things in life like jobs, like income ought to be distributed. We have to make some sort of discrimination. If you're a person manager needs to hire someone you have a bunch of applicants you have to discriminate between them. That's inevitable. The question is on what grounds do you discriminate? And

United States principal Tom mulligan Britain Thomas mulligan Antony Fennell Mira Tokyo Georgetown University visiting scholar
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

13:00 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"Sphere. Diplomatic challenge. Number three, where to from here all is a much bigger question about what a modern foreign ministry. What a modern diplomatic service actually use. And look I would caveat this by saying that there are many brilliants educated experienced hardworking people in the strategy department of foreign affairs, and trade or really pretty much any other foreign service. The usually pretty elite organization, however, the times have changed and these days almost every government official from any agency that has some contact with the outside world, and that's pretty much. Everyone is to some extent a diplomat. So in a sense diplomacy has been democratized wrought across government and indeed beyond government into the private sector into the community into the media and so forth. So it's not only the diplomats that have to. Sponde- to the convulsions in the international system that come from latest being empowered to conduct their own public messaging in real time. But we're diplomats do have to respond and Pat be retrained is I guess both a new kind of multi-skilling I think for a long time in diplomacy. The public facing side of things public diplomacy media relations and so forth was treated as a poor cousin. It was treated as really an inferior analysts substantiative kind of work than the the true policy work of being a bilateral desk officer dealing at a high level with a foreign country behind closed doors, that's not the case anymore. In fact, often the more consequential stuff is what's happening in the public domain. So we do need diplomats that are trained and impale to be very active in contemporary forms of media. And it does tend to still be a pretty strong risk aversion to how deep. Matt's everywhere in gauge on social media. But we also need diplomats who are impaired all kinds of other ways, for example to understand the complexity of lot of the contemporary issues where technology is becoming such a big feature of the future. Uncertainties in the world. That's a tool. Order isn't it for somebody who's been trained as a diplomat in the traditional sense to take all of that on board because there's an awful lot in there isn't there there is and I suspect in an organization like a foreign ministry, you're going to need both a highly school and Joel pool of generalists and also some new specializations because in fact, there are specializations not only do we've international law, but also to do with new technologies and the new issues around which diplomacies guy to have to come to terms where really years of technical knowledge and technical training will be just as impor-. Portent as those classic diplomatic skills of communication behind closed doors with your diplomatic peers of negotiation of compromise and of being able to analyze and understand the dynamics in foreign countries and always saying that kind of change going on not just in the strolling context with the with the strolling foreign affairs. But in the foreign affairs departments of other countries are Justin look all Woodside. There is some progress. I mean, it's notable in the foreign affairs white paper. He'll ask you that. The government emphasize both the investment that it's made in training, for example through the diplomatic academy. But also through organizations like my own national security college. But also renewed emphasis on really skilling diplomats in analytical techniques in being able to understand changes in the world really to analyze as well as simply too. Observe report and describe and in foreign ministries around the world, I think there is some of these greater emphasis on new forms of education and skilling underway. I guess I'll just emphasize that the cultural shift that has to occur. Diplomats have to be comfortable with learning new skills and also comfortable with the fact that the no longer the late that they want were that officials from many other government agencies and indeed actors from other parts of society, just as internationalized sometimes even more so as they are will remake from the national security college at the Estrella National University in camera and before him Caitlyn burn from the Griffith Asia institute, you're with future taints. Our ends intersection of culture, science and technology, exploring the edge of change. I'm Antony Fennell. In Christmas, two the racist too. For the moment of madness to catch perhaps a moment of retention. Is. It will be cancan on the show these tonight's. And so those greatest prize headed for Paris that there was another big World Cup win this year. And that was Russia. Before we got the rush. I had no idea what to expect media outlets repainting picture of dark land filled with people with an old world those minded mentality. Things are starting to change especially with the generations using music football and art helped push the country forward and connect with people the associate professor Stuart Murray is a specialist in sports diplomacy at bone university in Queensland the Russia cases. Absolutely. If you think bike even just relatively short period of thing that the twenty fourteen Suci Winter Olympics and Russia was beleaguered by as much but press policies and allegations of corruption and good aft-, and many of these these problems that was associated with Suci in for some reason, there's nothing of elk associated with a two thousand eighteen ballgames. So that it sells very interesting study. But Russia's done very differently. What was so cheap and what they've done very, quiet. Diplomacy with a was the twin eighteen World Cup. They can also can also backfire mustard as well. If you think of that two thousand ten Commonwealth Games, and then the these are sort of public diplomacy disasters. If you can imagine the athletes village wasn't ready. The organization was terrible. So that the pro of of India was certainly. Forthcoming in that example. So I think nations are tempted to think of it make Vincent and particular who they can reject coacher their software messages, and again, this sort of just quiet diplomacy as as Ogden as was the case with switching twenty fourteen. And that includes the ustralian government, which now has its own sports diplomacy program. So ideas that you top and already existing international networks of sport and the in clubs if you think of it clubs and sports people and sports players that are ready as an international relations system of sport. So the government's relate just sort of tapping into that and trying to realize eighties of Senator Jay will sort of do the same thing and international space was sports. So there's a lot reputational ju- -plication maybe by thinking about a bit more strategically by co defying into the policy and by creating doctrine, which the sports diplomacy strategy was launched in twenty fifteen and that's that's what I. Tended to getting the sticking a little bit team. But if you think of the school of a Syrian sport, and you think of it the scope of serious foreign ports. It's a big piece of what to to try and get through. What is it? The countries can get out of involving sporting diplomacy. If you think of diplomacies as a means to foreign policy and diplomacy is a means means than and if you can imagine. So if you think about again in the shooting context, one of the foreign policy pillars as declare influence in the Endo Pacific region. A key goal of areas foreign poor sexuality. So the question is what ruled the sport plea and cheating, particularly that will destroy is invested heavily and puts called the Pacific sports partnerships with two money and effort into building sporting relationships within their for example, simply those jeez between strange nations is crease and former Oprah -tunities away from the sort of stayed negotiating. The news and with all businesses, you can imagine and the particular Endo Pacific relationship must be built the the formal diplomacy occurs. After that, there is an old saying that you shouldn't make politics. And so there are a lot of people who who won't like this idea of sport playing a greater role in international diplomacy. Absolutely. This is thing. I'd rather cliche. The pinion to quite Frank. We shouldn't say overused, and and trait to the point of being annoying, then that simply because sport and politics, always mixed mixed. Stay memorial sport was used as a way to to sublimate conflict and only between the split groups of people nations and states, but within the city's for example, it's a sport. If you think about the ancient context was always coopted by politicians as routine Egypt's through to the ancient Olympia, of course, room the medieval, Europe, industrial Europe, Israel. So there's there's always been a close quarterly. Ocean between sport and politics. Go particularly speak in the twentieth century when sport became a of for ideology, it was tarnished with the Russia fascism. I think is a bit of a misnomer, this that sport imports, but shouldn't mix this is an ideal statement, and they do mix the all the team. So we need to study understand. And maybe try and get Camden, the nationalism aspect of international sport been co-opted by the again, this is something that's changed radically in the past fourteen fifteen years, we think of diplomacy as a way in which they differences between states the frictions if you lie between states can be smoothed over over juiced. And yet there's an aggressive side too, much of our sport. Isn't there does that Greg side get in the way, sometimes does Anthony does and for a lover sport undiplomatic? Kind of like a bud example, again, if you think in the student context actions of Nikita does for example, and sort of gave us really? Out of a bad reputation. If you think about the infamous temper gate, scandalous summertime was very bad week for a steal. But if you look at the majority of sports cars, generally good for the international relations system, I think the dock episodes of sport been abused, and there's cheating, duping and sport. So headline news. But it certainly the exception rather than the rule a very famous case in which sport was used as a diplomatic tool was the ping pong match between the Chinese Americans back in the early seventies. But we've seen heaven we even in recent times with cricket for instance, where a sport has been used almost two to reset diplomatic relations between troubled countries. Absolutely. I think in the seventy one ping pong diplomacy kiss. It was used as a vehicle to test. The public of both nations were willing to accept policy shifts, meaning the the US and chain can get a little bit cooler. Cricket example, you mention. Another very good one. We're in the Pakistan, for example, what attention over cashmere or terrorist incidents in sport. They play a game of cricket and the payments. There's ton up at fuses tension and that relationship, and then finally the the biggest story of the last three or four months is very very similar to seventy one in pingpong is the thawing of relations between north and South Dakota yet the brakes came at the peeling Chang. Winter Olympics leaders were seen sitting next to one another the public's watch that and everyone was okay with it. And then relations says the formal negotiations than begin off these informal meetings. So it's something that's very positive always nice to end on a positive note. Sports diplomacy experts Jewett Murray speaking to me, they're from Scotland where he's a fellow of the academy of sport at Edinburgh University. But he's normally found at bond university on the Gulf Coast, and that's the show today and the end of our summer series of Hollywood prior. Grams next week we'll be back with a whole new season of future tents for twenty nine teen. So until then I'm Antony Fano cheese, and by Fennell you've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.

Russia department of foreign affairs cricket Antony Fennell Olympics Stuart Murray ABC Pat Sponde official officer ustralian government
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

05:10 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"This is an ABC podcast. June the falls and the office of Iran supreme leader. I told the Khameini issues the following official communicate fi Twitter stance against Israel is the same stance. We have always taken Israel is a malignant cancerous tumor in the west Asian region that has to be removed and a radical it is possible. And it will have a. And the response from the Israeli embassy in Washington. Well, they tweeted back a gif of a blonde haired girl rolling her eyes. Are you? So excessive me tweet a give and the Hollywood hit mingles, the art of international relations, certainly has changed. Hello Antony Fennell here with part two of our look at diplomacy in the twenty th century. Sure biggest competitor the biggest foam globally right now. I think we have a lot of foes. I think the European Union is a foe. What they do to us in trade. Now, you wouldn't think of the European Union, but they're Afo diplomat challenge. Number one keeping up with the politicians. Well, think the biggest change is an unfortunate one and that is an emphasis on speed. And it's not just social media. But really in the air of live television, for example, everything has to happen. Very quickly and diplomacy just to to make generalization you can say that fast diplomacy is often bad diplomacy. Philip safe from the university of California. He also, right. The aptly titled book the future of diplomacy. Diplomats particularly when the diplomacy is being conducted at at the higher levels people who have political concerns transcend normal diplomatic concern. Earns. There's a tendency to try to cater to that audience to be more political than diplomatic. There is a distinction between the two, and I think the rise of social media fosters that kind of behavior consider for example, the recent negotiations between the United States and North Korea as that went on. There was such a huge amount of pressure to conform to the demands of the news media instantly and to tweet results what was going on. And I'm not sure that that contributes to a substantive diplomacy. Airforce wine coming in for landing in Havana, Jose Martine airport, their historic trip by US present the first US president to touch soil at this moment right there in Havana, Cuba in ninety years along with the press. Diplomats will continue to have court rule, but behind the scenes in often. Of the public view, regardless of what the political leaders are doing a good example was the negotiation that went on in two thousand fifteen between the United States and Cuba that was done entirely in secret. And if it had been public if the wouldn't've worked there would have been outraged from various political forces and President Obama would have had to just probably abandon the whole process. So there are still times when that quiet diplomacy is going to be the most effective form of diplomacy. But I've roles has professor Saeb the Nitra of digital life is pushing international relations further into the public arena at used to be the diplomacy was a matter of government to government with public diplomacy, particularly using new media, tools, governments can reach out with great ease to the public. Some other countries social media, for example, is a tool that many governments are. Now using to make their case to define their narratives to global Publix. And this is too I price isn't it those politicians and also diplomats role so open to suggestions or comments from the public. They well, they have to be open and hit and some of them don't particularly care for that they resist that. But if you go it's a two-way Streep. And so if you wanna be able to reach public's, you have to be willing to respond to them, as well, what are the implications of that transition across to a more public form of diplomacy in principle. It sounds like a great idea so sort of democratization of diplomacy, but the danger is that it speeds up the process too much, and there's an expectation now that everything's gonna show up on Twitter. Everything's gonna show up on YouTube. And so diplomats have to decide the extent to which they wanted to raise these new technologies, I think it's impor-. Not to become overly enthusiastic about the wonders of new communication, tools and realize that to some extent they complicate the processes of diplomacy.

European Union Israel United States Iran Philip Twitter ABC Antony Fennell Jose Martine airport Israeli embassy Cuba YouTube official Havana Publix President Obama Streep university of California
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

02:44 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"I mean, even the French who sometimes we think are out of the region, have emphasized that France, an its merit on gauge -ment with the world is an Indo Pacific power because France after all has territory in both the Indian and the Pacific oceans, so suddenly we are pretty close to the center of gravity on this issue and see interesting, isn't it because what appears on the surface is as simple name change as as a redefinition in the minds of world late is in the minds of the diplomats that can have significance connett lengthening. I think that's wrought. If you look at not only nine, but also what I would call mental maps that has you side the maps in the minds of leaders and decision makers by have very practical real will to fix. They determine way you see your potential partners where you see your potential risks or adverse res they help determine which regional organizations you. Waterfall which of the clubs you wanna form. And who is and who is out and why they also help to term and things like, we'd you allocate your resources, you'll military deployments, your aid and development assistance, where might you open you diplomatic missions and so forth. So I think if you go back to much more familiar terms like the Asia Pacific, you know, the North Atlantic Europe, East Asia, south East Asia Asia itself, all of these terms originally were again Mia names, if you like me mental maps that decision Mike is they news to create new power relationships. And so I think we're at the start of a very long Indo Pacific journey, partly because countries like China, an depending much more heavily on this water ragion on the Indian Ocean on South Asia in Africa for their own prosperity and security, that's creating destabilizing affects of responding. We. Need to find a way to manage dynamics across these big canvas. So I think we are started a pretty long in the civic moment, very medically put roaring Medco from the ustralian National University next week will bring you to look at the future of diplomacy. Spayed technology and trying to keep pace in the world of social media. What skills will future? Diplomats need to be affective. That's next week. Thanks to count, savannah, Vitz and sound engineer. Dive wise, I'm Antony Fennell, this is future tense until next time. You've been listening to an ABC podcast. Discover more great ABC podcasts live radio and exclusive on the ABC. Listen up.

South Asia France Asia Pacific ABC East Asia Pacific Indian Ocean Antony Fennell ustralian National University Africa China Vitz Mia engineer Mike
"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

Future Tense

04:39 min | 3 years ago

"antony fennell" Discussed on Future Tense

"And he is a it'd you know that he goes from the guts, and you know, when he was going into meet Kim, President Kim of North Korea. He said, I'll know, you know, in a matter of seconds, whether this is going to go, well or not and the problem is we all know is sometimes our gut is wrong. And we don't have enough information to soar an NF people around us to sort of temper what we think might be right? And so that's what's concerning so far. I think we've gotten lucky we haven't had a disaster or or dangerous situation arise. It got pretty scary with Kim and Trump when they were talking about the size of their nuclear weapons in their arsenals. But that seems to have been tempered. And of course, it's not just on Trump is it. I mean, a lot of global ladies Honey personal in the way, they talk about international. Issues at the moment. So he's just one player among many isn't. He no he is in the others are on. Now, he cries an order one of Turkey who's just been reelected. Another one is urban present urban of Hungary. Right. So no, he's not alone in doing that. But typically, you know, in a democratic system, you have more checks and balances on the foreign policy, and then also there's a recognition in an acknowledgement of the level of expertise within the institutions of the state. Yes, these purser Listrik it can help and it can make some dramatic changes. But then you need to have the staff that you can rely on later to actually implement it. Right. It's not just enough to make a pronouncement, but then the nitty gritty of eventually making positive change relying on the staff and trusting that that staff is doing a good job. My concern is that this particular administration and some of the other ministrations talk about Turkey, Hungary. Poland is another one. Whether that's going to be the case. You're listening to future tense. I'm Antony Fennell. As professor Duffy tuft point sounds there are in democratic countries of Lee, some checks and balances on the direction and implementation of foreign policy, even if at times proved somewhat ineffective, but enormous credit countries. There are no such chicks. China's foreign policy has become increasingly assertive in recent times and lock the United States. It's diplomatic core is undergoing a dramatic change. Meriden Barral is the director of the East Asia program. At a struggle is low institute, she spent time teaching international relations at the China foreign affairs university in Beijing, the new breed of Chinese diplomat's. She says is being taught to be highly nationalistic to identify the interests of the ruling Chinese communist party with the interests of the nation and to adopt an asset gains them approach to the outside world. They're being taught to represent the Chinese nation publicly, and in a very particular way, and those world views and ideas that they're being immersed in this probably for that. I think came out most strongly in my time there, and they were the ideas that history is destiny, and that is to say that the past is the blueprint for the future. So how things were is the way that how things will be and what that looks like is related to the next world view. Which is this victimization narrative that China has been humiliated and bullied and persecuted by outsiders, and that until say the mid eighteen hundreds the Moore's in the mid eighteen hundreds China was an enormously important and well respected international player. You know, the Chinese GDP before that time was greater than all the rest of the world put together and so- linked with that. I will do what they see is that the rest of the world or these allied forces came together. In the mid eighteen hundreds and they pulled China down from its rightful place in the world, and they persecuted and tormented it until it was a week shadow of its former self, and they think that that history is on track to be rectified, the third world view is the idea that the region is kind of like a family. So rather than saying the countries in the region as exactly equal. They see it more as a hierarchy, and they say themselves China as a sort of benevolent father figure benevolent, but strict father figure who will be making sure that there's the right kind of order that everybody benefits, but it's a it's a relationship of complimentarities rather than a relationship of equals and the fourth world view is.

President Kim China China foreign affairs universi Hungary Turkey North Korea Trump Lee Poland Antony Fennell professor Duffy tuft Meriden Barral East Asia Beijing United States Moore director