20 Episode results for "Annie Liebowitz"

The Power of Art

Innovation Now

01:30 min | 11 months ago

The Power of Art

"Artists Bridge the gap between imagination an illustration and can bring even the most complex concepts to life. This is innovation. Now, bringing you stories behind the ideas that shave our future the relationship between art and sciences to some may seem like will and water but scientists and engineers understand the artistic process all too well has they coax new theories and technologies into existence and the collaboration between scientists and artists has a history almost as old as NASA itself in nineteen sixty one public interest in space exploration was increasing rapidly after shepherd became the first American in. Space the then NASA Administrator James Webb recognized the power of artistic expression. He established the NASA art program as a way to use art to emotionally capture Nasr's past and future events since its beginning famous artists including Norman Rockwell. Robert. Rauschenberg Andy Warhol and Annie Liebowitz have all worked with the NASA Art Program from images that illustrate scientific concepts to those showcasing exciting missions art continues to play an important role in preserving extraordinary moments in space exploration for innovation. Now I'm Jennifer poet innovation now is produced by the National Institute of Aerospace Through collaboration with NASA.

NASA Administrator James Webb National Institute of Aerospac Annie Liebowitz Andy Warhol Norman Rockwell Nasr Robert
The Filmmakers Dilemma  Dark Skin Tones

This Week in Photo

1:10:14 hr | 11 months ago

The Filmmakers Dilemma Dark Skin Tones

"April of little some interesting or different today for the this week in photo discussion among with my friend. Chris Fenwick If you have anything to do with final cut pro, you know this guy he he's one of those people that knows final cut pro and editing in general from the inside out backwards and forwards and all that and he's We'll get into that but Chris reached out to me a couple of the about a week or so ago and pose a really interesting question us. He said, you know what? How do you? How do you color ballots for darker skin tones? He was having problems with that and this was this was on the heels of the whole Simone biles controversy with Anti Liebowitz and. All that back and forth of they should hired a black photographer to shoot her or should the photographer shot heard? No or Annie's people? Should they have known how to process and color correct for blacks hint so anyway. So we decided to jump on and have this conversation just talk like you know two people that like this stuff and see if there's a solution or maybe there is no. Solution but Chris, which is these elite editor Ed slice editorial and I'll put the links to all of his stuff in the show notes and the the description for this episode on Youtube but follow him over there. But check out this discussion is pretty. It's pretty interesting. We'll be pretty interesting from the standpoint of just what's wet in the in the real world of color correcting for other humans. We go. Here we go starting to. All right. Chris. Renwick. Welcome to this week in photo man how you doing. Mr Johnson I'm doing well. Yes it's good. The I'm doing really good. You know what we were talking before we started recording. and. I got I. got a page just from chatting just. Before recording. Yeah Yeah where you do your hands. Okay. But always you know you're you're a wealth of information. You're humble about it. Obviously, which is why you get invited to speak at conferences and all this other stuff, and you'd probably have more work than you can deal with. But let's I want to segue into that stuff that that I talked about in the teas color balancing for darker skin tones, Black People Brown people, etc. But before we do that, tell us a little bit about Chris Renwick in slice editorial. In the world and how are you helping keep spinning? I don't think I help keep spinning all. Right. Now. That's that's that's frightening I I'm an editor and I tell people this all the time and they say Fascinating. What are you edit? I added a bunch of stuff you'd never want to watch. It's it's not that it's not that exciting. In the corporate communications corporate branding space. There is tons of work to do most people realize that whether it's photography or video or editorial like I do But frankly most of the stuff I work on, you'd Never WanNa Watch. It's not that exciting. It's a matter of fact I think the people that I make it for you know they're struggling to get their employees to had chip you know but but but the bottom line is it's a living and I've always said that to satisfy your own creative you know thing that you have to do. You're better off. I mean it's good that I don't rely on my job to do that and I'll. I'll tell you. That if you. If you try to be, you know to exude your best you know a Steven Spielberg George. Lucas. When you're doing my job, you're going to be a pain. Because you're GonNa have all these great ideas. I'm not saying the not good ideas, but they're not right for the project that you're working. And so You're better off. You're always better off serving the project and. Most of the stuff that I do, it's ahead he's talking and might be a graphic over shoulder that. Explains what he's talking about but I don't need seven different angles in tight close ups intention like no I don't need that and so if you WanNa do that you should totally do that. But doing on something you're producing and not that you're trying to get paid for. And It's it's just kind of a pet peeve of mine. You know you just keep keep your creative thing to to wear. It's a being asked for and I turned stuff out. That's what we do. It's not not really exciting but like I said, raise the Bill Corp video pays the bills you know keeps keeps keeps the Earth Spin and keeps spinning right there. That's absolutely absolutely and I'll tell you three a four days after Governor Newsom shut down the state of California were based. we were in production. and. We were in production because. On I kind of reminded everybody that we work with especially in the office that our core competency. is to. Help people disseminate information. That's what we do. We help people communicate, and even during a pandemic people have to communicate, and so we came up with some workflow ways to do that and I've talked about that on other shows maybe to talk about it here but it's not what we really came to talk about. But but we were I was working on Tuesday. I delivered my first client video before the week was up you know so. We're just. And I WANNA I wanNA. Talk about just how this hold the lockdown and you know the the increased emphasis on distance learning and distance work and all this stuff is affecting people like you like sit in ended bay and do stuff I wanNA. At all now when you're already a value news. Dark Room. That is. Traffic those in mean that came out in the first week and it was like editor pre bit editor Africo. Busy same dudes sit at the same. Save. Do probably the same do but with more annoyances of. Shoulder over his shoulder. Yeah. Well, let's let's switch gears and I want to get into that stuff of of. What the world looks like pre and post for someone like you that's doing a high end in corporate editing and professional level in the editing bay type stuff. But on the topic of of skin tone, how does that? How is that affected you over the years in terms of trying to balance for them? Sure he had. Different shades of people come through your computer. What does it look like? It's super interesting. You know this I really. became an issue to me about. Say. I don't know six or eight years ago, and I was working on a piece that was A. It was multiple interviews with a bunch of a software programmers. and. In this and by the way, can we just? Can we just say I'm white you're black there Indian I don't Wanna I don't WanNa chase a bunch of special words or I don't know what the proper words are anymore below than. I'm old enough that I've used them all but are. So we're doing this piece in all these guys. Indian. Programmers. Okay and I don't know why they just happened to be have very long names that I couldn't pronounce and so. I cut I cut the peace and A. Red The color stage. So I go to the in the way I would typically work as go to the first instance of the first guy and I diddle fiddle and push and pull and three way color corrector is. That looks good. Then you go to the next guy and you. Fill in, you push poll three way color correction. Okay Yeah. He good and they do the same thing with the third guy and then you start comparing them and you're like, okay. Okay and then I, apply the color correction to every clip of guy wanted every guide to in every clip agai three and I go back and I start watching the peace and it's awful. It looked horrible. Horrible. In what way it was that what was the didn't look human anymore. They didn't didn't look right and ultimately that's what we WANNA do is we wanna make something look aesthetically pleasing but also not draw attention to it so. So what was it was it was it the horror what why was it so off? The what would you say had the same experience with white people or later? So that's the real question. Frederick. So yeah. I I realized that day so that they put all the color correction off the peace and I did it again I started from scratch and I got to the end and I still didn't like it and then googling how to color correct Indian skin tones and like did find any think and what is wrong what is the problem and what I came up with the Best I could come up with was that somewhere in my own personal psyche, this whiteboard from Chicago. was just trying to make everybody look like him. And and I was consciously doing it and frankly that realization really didn't come to me for for years but but it would I struggled with it and I didn't literally say why does this man not look? Caucasian and what's it like? There was your brain was like this is what skin tone brain is saying this is skin tone trying to get close to that right? That's that's where it was going. Yeah maybe maybe and then Soon after that, I was walk into an airport and and I'm going to have you do a little google test or do you have enough screen real estate that you can open up a couple of google windows while while we're doing this I cannot I don't have that. That'll have that level of. Okay. Well, you'RE GONNA, you'RE GONNA have to bear with me and just just use your imagination use your. At. So I was talking to airplane I could I could bring up a screen Gimme a euro bring it up. It's called on Google G. O.. Will Give me a search term smart search four. Fifty cent vibe. And then Click on the little image tab just look at all the different photos. Okay. So I'm walking through I'm walking through an airport and I go buy a new stand and this image on the cover of vibe magazine. Now, it's one reason at a baseball cap and I've noticed it either corner of my eye and striking it was like really I used the term earlier it was emotional and I walked over and I picked it up and I was like, why do I like this image out don't necessarily try and find that image I just want you to look at all the different images of fifty cents when you search for fifty cent vibe. And and this image it was striking now one of the things they did, okay it's the number two image there. So the number to. One of the things they did is they overly whitened his eyes and you know he's he's trying to look like a tough guy you know whatever but look at a skin tone. It has kind of. I'll call it a plus blue feel to it. Okay. Do you see it in the blacks. See what I mean. If you go back and I think that's part of what I, what I found really striking. So if you go back to the page, the head, a bunch of images go back a couple of pages and you look at all of the different. Images that pop up right here. In my estimation GIN whiteboard from Chicago. I see a lot of different colors. The one over on the side execs were it says, Curtis? He looks a little more yellow there. The the initial one it's definitely plus blue in the blacks the upper right corner of the main field. He's a little bit more orange. Color temperatures are all over the place. Now, some of that is our direction I get it. The people working on it I don't know I don't know one hundred percent. Okay leave that tab. Open make a new TAB. And I want you search for a different person. Michelle pfeiffer. Of the whitest of all people ever. The PFEIFFER, there's a Paean pfeiffer. l. e. p. a. how you spell It'll it. If it doesn't auto failure computers broken Pierre Over. They're really it won't. No that. Let's see if I spell it. Wrong. We'll google me. There we go. Okay. Not Not wikipedia go to click on the image. Tab. Up toward the top Bingo. In my estimation and maybe again, maybe just as white boy from Chicago most of those pictures look about the same. Yeah Yeah. I don't know what that means that most people that put images on the Internet identified with Michelle pfeiffer or maybe they're white I don't know. But I think part of it. is an unregistered in meaning almost subliminal. racial bias. I also think that some of it might be technology and I'd love to get your opinion on it. Have you noted? I agree and I you know some things some things came to mind while you were where you're talking about that I think. If you've will, there's multiple layers here right? Because one layer is completely subjective. because. It's color correction in it's completely subjective from a brain standpoint. Also from biology standpoint, we all have different numbers of rods and cones in our eyes. So we see perceived colored differently you're red is not my read in we can't. We will never know what you're it is and you'll never know what my read is right unless we can figure out how to swap is for some reason. So there's that and then there's the technological side of it. I think where you know it's computers all computers are rendering colors differently in the displays or Different. You don't know if they're on a phone or a tablet or on a TV screen colors are all over the place, and then also you know back to the biology of there's an infinite number. Literally, I would argue an infinite number of gradations between the darkest black person and the lightest skinned black person or the the Irish Zero Melanin person all the way through to the Tan Italian that pass for black right. So Cecilia how to you this Zillion? How to use the editor pick one right right with all those variables out there. It's impossible and I honestly think that some of it, some of it is a A. An unregistered and maybe. Maybe just a racist pick. You know whatever. But I think most of the time it's like this unregistered racial bias and I and I think that was part of my problem with these. Indian guys like I think I think I think somewhere inside I was just trying to make more like me and they should. A little lighter how do I make you a little lighter? Some still wrong how do I get you more light? You know yeah. Yeah. No I get it. Yeah and that's a that's a biased right even if conscious. I, know your brain is and it's not there right so. Your brain trying to like figure out what looks good for the client. That's what your job is at the end of the day. How do I make the best work I can for for this client and how do I make these people their best that's what your brain is going, but there's you don't have a you don't have I. don't corrective from wrong. You don't have a grounding or anybody has a grounding in what the correct if there is a correct skin tone for anybody. Changes daily Chris like if I go if I go outside and spend some time the summit comeback in a shade darker than I am right now. I was super sunburn over the weekend. So. There now there is there is something to this. Are you familiar at you know what a a video way for monitor looks like you know what a history Grande looks like of course absolutely no. The parade scopes and you know you're familiar with the Becker scope. Are you familiar with these things? Are I don't know how to use them Okay. That's a whole nother episode. On a vector scope going from the center of the vector. Up to about ten o'clock, there's there will be an it's their voter shot era at if you open it up, you'll see learn. and. That line is called the flesh tone lie. And I am told by people much smarter than me. That regardless of race. All. Flesh. Tone. Roughly lands on that. On that line. Okay. So you just said you know the the there's no technical reason. The kind of is I mean and sometimes i. Go. With that long. It's like the founding fathers came up with that line, right? Made Stones. You know. A, Guy who. Invented, the flesh tone line in go. Exactly reminds me of like, what's what are those? Those really expensive headset microphones. He's at ten days now, the country's. Countrymen yeah. I remember a couple years ago. I was going to buy a countryman microphone and I'm looking on their site. You know you can buy them in skin tones. Got This pink thing on your face. But they had one they had a they had skin that I think they've changed his sense but they had one that was called skin tone and then they had one of the darker one was called. MOCHA. So you could get you get get actual skin tone or more guard. Like our black guy. Of Boca, is the same people that created bandaids. These. Are these are problems I haven't had. I made for my people now. Why is this band aid? So contrast the I have no me ask you is. Is there anything that you do when you're processing photos when you're looking at? Flesh tones. Is there anything that you do that that you find yourself shaping the way somebody looks would you know? Would you have gone as plus blue on that fifty cent photo? To this day I still think that's striking photo. Yeah yeah on that pick I. Think. Chris, you gotTA also. It's not all about accuracy. As certain point photographer is taking creative license and he's trying to evoke a mood in this in the case of fifty cents here looking his face and he's trying to be tough in hard unapproachable in that job coming. Up. For White is He's very healthy drinks, lots of water, but he's pissed up, right. So you know. So you know half of it is you're not going to look shots on this is the photographer or the the whoever's putting these pieces together. This saying I'm going for a mood like this one in the upper right here I want it looking like you know Los Angeles on a very polluted day you know. or You make those decisions. You back to your question. About me and how I make these decisions. If a if I'm working on somebody, you know it's Ninety percent of the time one, hundred percent it's going to be subjective right and I'm not trying to say, okay this person's skin tone on the day that I shot them look this and this is the perfect tone for them. If I need that level of accuracy, I'll put a put a great tag macbeth color chart in there and then I can. I can start their at least in then take creative license from there. But for the most part I'm Yvonne man you know it's like you know. And I don't think these we were talking about before we started recording. Like what this Simone biles thing I don't know that the argument against Annie Liebowitz and or her post production team. Let's say it wasn't anti anti pull the trigger post production team did the editing. I don't know that we would have been having this discussion if the pictures of Simone biles came out fantastic and nobody had any complaints there would be there would have been no hey, you know this is racist and you know you should have hired a black photographer to do that I. Don't know that the discussion would have went there if the photos look fantastic. Problem with the photos and then rewind it back and said, well, who shot the photos oh well, you should have had somebody do it right? I? Think at the end of the day not speaking for miles. If I was an Olympic athlete, I would want the best frigging picture. Of Me Possible to go on the cover of Vogue and how do you do that? Any LIEBOWITZ is available. I want anti to shoot my stuff right. So I don't know I think it's a site of where the we're the country is or the world or motor specifically, the country is right now in it's driving that level of of a nit picking conversation. I. Don't know what do you think? Well, we're the pictures. So if you do the search, any Liebowitz Simone biles. There's A. There's the cover with her giant back, and then there's also one where she's like flying through the air. Is One. where she's kicking above the word bogue was there one or two pictures in particular or was it the entire? On. The entire shoot that people had issue with. I you know I didn't read all the stories about which ones people had issues with but I think it was ones like you know this shot right here. Just looks horrible right and she's a very pretty girl. She's good scam looking over here. She looks great. And this shot when you look at it, she looks like she's just got up right. It looks like there was no stylists or her her sued is going up our ass over here. They coulda pulled that down. There's it doesn't look like there was a lot of. Thought I don't know you know I'm not a Liebowitz. Yeah it. Bothers me. The most is the one where she's flying through the air and like a dancers pose. It just looks super dark and Again, that's like. Yes, Chris White man she is a black woman in front of a grey wall it's GonNa. You know this one is clearly somebody made decisions on what they were going to do with this shot, right so Let's do this outdoor shot. Let's let's skew it towards Siobhan. We have supercomputers at our disposal rate so they could have brought the shadows up could've done anything they wanted to do the shot they chose to do it like this. So who you know so I, I have to call artistic license. I have to call that they meant to do this I don't think this was an accident you know whether it was right or wrong this somebody this was intentional. You know I don't when I say intentional I don't think it was intentional intentionally biased racism let's make Simone biles look like shit you know I think it was more. Let's try something different. Let's make her look like this. It kind of mysterious or whatever, and they failed you know the most. Do you think the story was completely exacerbated by all the political stuff going on. Yeah Yeah for sure. Yeah. Like I said, I don't think this. This story will a if the if the images had been. Fantastic and beyond reproach than we would have just been continuing to celebrate Simone, biles but unfortunately. This and he liebowitz? Yeah. Yeah. You know the shoot was about Simone. So I think you know they would have been like, wow, look at all these accomplishments, simone biles is done. Go overcoming abuse and. Yada Yada Yada it would have been about that instead unfortunately, the conversation because of the Zeitgeist in the nation got switched over to. Should have black photographer on this you know and all that. So I don't I don't think if this if this shoot had happened a year ago. We would have been having this conversation about it so. But the other side of it Chris is we are here. Right. We are here having this. You know you can't. You don't have time machine. So this is where we are in the earth. This is the point in time when we have to deal with what is thrown at it. So it's the reality you can't say, well, if this had been ten years ago, then this ABC wouldn't happen. That's like saying. If I had worn a condom, she wouldn't have got pregnant, right? He didn't she is. So got forward with our. Like and he's got a long history of amazing portraits. Clearly, there's a few black people she shot over the years did any of those get as much? Be, the now screen do some research on that. Yeah. I I don't think so I don't think. So yeah. So so yes, to a certain degree. This is. When we talked about doing this interview I said. To. Just. Make sure you have my back to a certain degree I. think that I think that a lot of this is just ridiculously overblown and it's an if it'd happened. Ten Twenty years ago or ten twenty months from now. You think the discussion would be a hundred percent different I agree I. Don't I don't think they're good photos I don't think it's a it's a racial coup either, right? Yes. I would be interested to see has has any come come out and tried to justify any of these tell you what I was doing what I was going for or did she decide what? She. Said Amana, just hide in my house here until all this crap blow. So I haven't seen any statements or anything, but my guess would be A. If it were me I would just you know it's an artist right? That'd be like Mapplethorpe for somebody explaining their work rate or you know it's like I did shoot I like my shots you hired me pay me seventy million dollars or whatever. You know I did it. You know and now it's sparking controversy. On one hand. You know if you take a playbook Roger Stone's. Book. You know any publicity is good publicity. So we're talking about her work we. Heard of I had never heard of Simone biles until you pointed this out to me. Really Oh. We you and I were talking about having this conversation you go. Oh Yeah. That's great conversation especially with go with what's going on with Simone biles I'm like excuse me. You don't have a seven year old daughter that's gymnastics or no I do not. Seven year old black daughter that's in gymnastics. So just Simone biles is the Steve Jobs of. Jerry Lou presume that I don't a black daughter. I'm guessing. Guess I think it'd be racist right now you might have a hidden somewhere Chris Renwick. Supposed to have your back up, try to keep you covered. So moving forward, what yeah. What do we? What do? Before. We move forward have you ever had issues and again, this is just turning the table on. You re ever had issues where you had images of of white person or an Indian person or somebody who doesn't fall into the same you know vector is you as your skin towns where you had troubles making it look good. No, and that's a really good question. I had a now. It's just me wonderful. No, it's not. It's. It's not but think of think of it like this like zoom out a little bit and think of it more from a thirty thousand foot standpoint. So when If you lay over if you put an overlay of demographics on the stuff. I probably yeah. Well, know it might be fifty fifty, but it's it's more balanced in my brain towards my own skin tone right? Because I've shot I'd probably shot more let's say photographed. I've probably photograph more black people than you. Don't know what you do in your spare time Christmas. But I probably photograph more black people than you have. But I remember going when I was in the military air force and learning photography remember the training on color correcting was biased towards Caucasian skin and I didn't I didn't notice that it was like we would get test sprints to print and marketing. In the in the color lab because we're remember those things called enlargers. So we're we were on enlarges color correcting and learning how to color correct and do all this stuff and you know the test prints were generally of you know there are a lot of them were just you know the you know the picture of the Cornucopia of fruit and flowers and the different colors and you gotta try to match it. You know it was that but the portrait's generally white people you know there was some. Dark Skin in there or black people, Brown people. But for the most part, it was like, okay, you gotta you gotta spend some time getting this shot right and we didn't think too. You know it was nothing malicious. It was like here's a stack of stuff just go through it and in order for you to go onto the next level you've got to color correct. These shots in your boss has to look at them. Make sure they're good and you can go to the next level. But do you know maybe there was that inherent bias in my upbringing and then the superpower for me came from also being black, right so now I know how to color correct you and I know what I look like. So I can do everybody right So. This I mean, it is a little interesting. You say, probably about half of the foot photographs, you've taken a black people so that skewing you know four times the national. You know proportions. Yeah. Definitely I, you know an half of the photographs update and have not been black people that was a good guess. But I. Maybe the maybe this whole discussion is just me seeing my own biases you know but it is interesting I. I will say when I saw that that fifty cent image. Like I started like if I. If I. was grading shot that you were this shot that I'm looking at now. I would definitely grab the are. Blacks and push them a little blue. You know. I. I do a now. Controls I do the let's let's kill. Correct me live right now. Get idea. Live? have. You changed your you know. Of ringing up my temperature. Change. What it's not changing because you're in Skype, it's changing economy. You can't see the people that are watching this. I go really warm for a second then I put it back so. But now and you're familiar with the whole you know Orange Peel controversy, right? Yeah. Yeah. I used nature of it in Hollywood totally especially if you're Mike Bay but Yeah. But I mean, that's that's obscene example where something is done for you know Well. I will say this this look. Pink Face Green Wall or I can go hold on. Hey Can I get your opinion? Bring. So I got pink face Green Wall Or. I got old on. The. Out Not now what I want to be on acting. For the feels that are listening to this audio Chris, Fenwick is onscreen showing off that he has colored lights behind him on the wall that he can control. Now, what I WANNA know is do you like the blue or the green better? because. I think I like the blue better because of the flag back there and it makes your point you pup better. Yep. So but the whole point of that is is what I the reason I did that is for the color contrast. Right. And yes, you can have. Brightness contrast. Duh. for example, I would I would encourage you to buy A. Chair that didn't up to your head and wasn't black because they know your head would pop against the the off white wall back like this like this. Yeah Right. Yeah. Cheers massive dude. What is Gamers Chair? Here come on what are you old? This is a guess. Yes, I am. But like This was a gift. Thank you. So you know I have to use it. So the alternative here is if I lose all the color and this is you know it's not horrible but I like the color contrast you know yeah. Yeah. I think I like the Blue Globe bitter it looks it looks it makes you pop out instantly is it's much better I think the comment about the flag is a good one too. It does feel a bit more patriotic. Made this. Fourteen, piece of wood. One of those stripes is separate. Oh look at that the that. So you have a would just completely topic, but you might you have a woodworking shop yeah. It's like A. You ever since I moved out to Sacramento. In. Had A garage for the first time in my life at fifty. Five years old when fifty four years old I was at the night we got the keys to the house of standing in the garage and I was like. This is going to be fun 'cause I'm like in junior high I was all about woodshop. But I've lived in apartments. And condos ever since. So yeah, it was like Oh this can be fun so i. Get a renewed a at a hobby from a long time ago. And it's been been allowed. Telling. No silly cool. The breeze my. I had a you know obviously, most of us are a lot of us took would woodshop rate in high school. So I, did that and I remember being bitten by the wiggling bug for like two summers rewrite because I I remember seeing this maybe it was my grandfather or somebody I remember them taking a piece of wood in this sitting on the front porch and you know messing with it and then suddenly add this figuring you know like you made that with just a knife in a piece of wood I want to do that. So you know. I WanNa say maybe twelve like twelve is in that range twelve, thirteen pro. So I still have that stuff. Boy Idols Warrior. I totally did I totally. I've got some deep slices you I got deeper slices in my finger from. Cutting Matt for photo. I slid slid the tip of his finger off like Dag me. Right. There is. This didn't even know I'm like what's always read stuff on my Matt. Oh. My God. To the bone, it didn't go to the bone and it grew back. So you know it wasn't that bad but it was yeah, it was like six to twelve weeks of. Error and I never did I, never did that again, you know much more respect for Matt cutting gear after that resume right? Right route. This man. So what what where do we get to? So is it? Like from a technical standpoint like we said at the beginning, you can't you're not gonNA ever be one hundred percent accurate on color right because of biology rods and cones because of technology, every display is different. It's all subjective. So is there should there be a re examining of the human color Palette and then we come up with like a standard. You know that's not that founding father line you talked about. The thing for me it's it's worth looking into it. Look look at your flesh on on on a vector scoping final cut I come over not jetted to reduce. Yeah. please. I think the thing for me was the realization it was the education you know I learned more, and I learned from these anecdotal events you know the the one editing project which I found to be very difficult and the striking you know fifty cents photo and I think that. I think that for me to know that that is a possibility to know that do I need to be more? More objective. And? and. Realize that I might be pushing something the wrong direction. I might be exude a exerting my own racial bias on something. You know just because I look at myself in the mirror every day doesn't mean everybody should look like me, right? Yeah and so knowing that that's the thing and. An obviously it is. If you if I had this discussion with you decades ago, I, would say, no, of course not. But and yet again, I totally screwed up. I, totally screwed this up. and. So having that experience, I'm much more careful as I push and pull things you know because color correction is is a, is it dangerous beast? It really is it's an imperfect science, right and the and I know you know I barely know two love is so I'm not the guide. The expert on color correcting. But. I do know like we were saying I do know is subjective in in your line of work especially if you're doing predominantly corporate work, you know they want they want at least probably more accurate or you let's say you have less creative freedom. Liberty than you would if you're creating a Michael Bay film. The other thing is that in a corporate environment, your editing, a video starring a person that quite possibly a lot of people in that company actually know who they are. Seen him the. If she them in the cafeteria. what he looks like. What the Hell? Order, WHO's an editor? The editor worked for any Liebowitz like what's going on? I'm. Going down. Our. I think it's it's a super interesting and there's one last thing and I realized we're kind of wrapping up one dimension earlier but. For. Decades now, especially in the broadcast television world and lines of blurred now with cinema cameras and whatnot such but for long tie. There was a sort of a general standing. that. At and maybe on remember this wrong. But I think I don't think I am. In the Sony World. Their cameras tended to be a little bit. Plus Green. Maybe a little plus blue but definitely, you'd always whole everything back now in today's Day and age that would that would indeed be a lot. You know a look up table where you say, I, know the color value is coming in at this but I really want you to show it to me at this and that's all I look on the table is right now you would being facetious you know what? I was I know what they're trying to do that crap with me but use them all the time. But in. But that was a common thing it's like little to green know, Little Tube Louis Green that direction. was that technology was that a racial thing on behalf of Sony being a Japanese company? right right do. I do Japanese people did Japanese people just look better on Sony Cameras. I don't know interesting. You remember there was that wasn't Sony or one of those larger companies was under fire a couple years ago I want to say for their. Face detection technology that was less accurate on dark skin than it was a light skinned, right? Yeah I think it was just there wasn't. As much contrast is they had Experimented with or tested just bad code I think. It's just bad code and what was the other thing? Yeah the other controversy was around Ai and bias. You know because you have artificial intelligence that's making decisions. Based on skin tone or not on skin tone, and if the discussion was I think the discussion was around machine learning and Alon Musk and self driving cars and remember that so. that. Yeah. Yeah and the car making decisions on who's WHO and and how to react in a situation whose life to save if it's the you know. It's deep man. We're like sky met level deep at that point. because. It's real. It's scary like if you have a here's here's a hypothetical Crispin Way. So here's a you got a self driving car the Ed Tesla. and. It's man in a black man run out in front of you which one do I am there's only enough room. To but you have an ai that's been program by someone who's racist. But. You didn't know that they racist driving that car and it's got to make the decision on whose life is worth more. Kids should I. Veer left or right or you know maybe it's just an old person versus a great sex Zach. As women versus man who gets run over right or do you have multiple markers? Oh, it's a black woman versus a white man. Let's run on. May Never WanNa leave the house again. To say is technology you cannot stop it you cannot stop it's and it's those I think the point is those kinds of details and nuances are being figured out right now as we speak. About them for decades maybe you and I won't care because we'll be on the front porch drooling but. In a couple of decades these that they're coding today are going to govern what happens in the few in in the summer of nineteen eighty six I was working at a TV station in the bay area. And we had a corporate client Hewlett Packard come in. And they rented six weeks of studio time. And all they wanted was I'm GONNA say chalkboard maybe it was a whiteboard I can't remember if whiteboards were thing in nineteen, eighty six. Three cameras a dude standing there with a law. And we had a stack of sixty minute u matic three quarter inch tapes. And for eight hours a day, we'd stick a tape in. It record. On camera one q the Guy. and. He would say an era I will remember this name. To the day I die he said Elope my name is Cool Mar and today we will talk about and from that point on I did not recognize any that he said. Oh. and. He was talking about our intelligence in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, six. And and I have done a little bit looking into it and I think he's one of the foremost. People ever or one of the first or whatever. But we were talking about artificial intelligence nineteen, eighty six, and this guy would talk and like five minutes before the end of the tape running out we'd show five minutes to go and finish up something and then we'd wrap them up and he'd go. We will be back with another video. Fade to black. Keep it another tape and I'm ready to go. Like. Eight. Hours a day for six weeks. We did this and this guy was just unloading his braves with everything. He knew about artificial intelligence at the time. Scary man it is scary like, yeah there's so much. There's so much stuff that is changing right now even in software I mean your your intimate is. Everybody, I know with software and how things work and the limitations and all that that all that good and bad stuff. But I. I did this interview. Mid last year with one of the chief artificial intelligence architects at skyline software. And you know we were talking I think it was the latest releases skyline where they had introduced some AI feature. We're talking about that feature but at the end of the interview I asked him where things are going was a future look like like for far down the line. Excuse me when you let off the chain, what does it look like? And he said he envisions a world and this is apparently being tested now. But where you could sit in front of your computer and say like Krim Chris Renwick could say yes. I need a beach with a blue sky maybe two or three wispy clouds in the sky There is a V formation of seagulls flying to the southeast. There's a beautiful woman laying on the beach. She's Brunette she has on a Red Bikini and she has a fruity drink next to her and there are three other people walking along the waterline in the distance make it. It'll just listen to you and create that seem for you. Then you could go in and manipulate it and say, well, yeah, the water, the tide's out a little further and we'll move the tide out. So, what this couple of examples of that number one have you ever seen the movie? Wag, the dog. I feel like I've seen Dustin. Government conspiracy. it's really. kind of it's really more about. How in the modern era? We probably shouldn't trust the news. you think the the story is the president is about to be reelected. Were weeks away from the election. And a bit of bad news comes out and they hire Dustin Hoffman to come in. To Manufacture a news event. To distract the public away from the this thing that happened and. We just have to distract people for a couple of weeks. And it's a fascinating moved but there's a scene in that where they're doing kind of what you're saying this woman this young girl played by Pearson Don's by the way is on a sound stage and it's all blue and Dustin Hoffman is in the control room. He goes. Let's put village behind her. More AB something more a shot up like distracted opening scene. Thank you. Great Movie Greg. Does lose again in the beard again. Drawn a blank. Dustin Hoffman in that guy. Got To I. I can't see me at his face in. Yeah. So anyway, they him they come up with this. This scheme to distract the news for a couple of weeks until the election. But the scene you're talking about where you know like, well, let's let's give her a bag of chips. Why do I have bag of chips they're going to replace it in post. And it's all fanciful put a cat in her arms. How about a Calico it'd be something with longer hair and the guys just going through a menu click likely. Okay. That'll do boop boop and then all of a sudden it looks like she's holding a cat the the lay's potato chips are gone. None of this is true none of this is true but it's sure you know what's scary have you heard of a piece of software called descript? ripped. No ruined the rest of your day if you haven't. So DESCR descript you Chris Fenwick. We need you need to go dive into this APP. Is I think they have a free trial go play with it, and then you and I need to circle back and have a discussion about it. So this is what these guys. They do. They could take this conversation that I'm recording right now imported descript software. It will analyze and create a transcript from our video. Okay. Yeah. Anytime line with away form at the bottom. But at the top, it is a like a word document you go in. If you hit play you see each word highlighted as we speak you can then go in and edit those words like you're getting a word document and it edits the the video based on your Word Edits Smart enough changing any words that I say Ron wait wait a minute. So you. Gets better. You can go in and say like. You know I know I say you know all the time you know or So you could train it that whenever you see those, just go ahead and remove all that you're instantly smarter at that point. But it also has this feature in their called overdubbed where you train for half an hour on your voice and can then generate your voice. So you could go in and say, so you did a corporate video and you the person misspoke the price like fifteen times in there, and the price of the product should have been five thousand dollars and they kept saying fifty thousand dollars you can go in and just in the text change it to five thousand dollars now that person is saying five thousand dollars correctly throughout the texts or you can feed it but listen the what's my lips when I when my lips are doing multiple? Multiple syllables but my voice is now only doing one. It's not Cheney Your Lips. So your lips are going to be wrong but the audio will be right and it will sound like you because it's generating Chris fenwick sounds so but then you know they did a webinar yesterday and one of the questions I chimed in on that you know interestingly didn't get answered was what about this deep fake technology? We've got deep fakes where you can make people look like other people and now we can make we can put words literally and people's mouths can't you yet chocolate peanut butter and destroy the world right? Can't we say you know. You add politician and destroy politicians live or in before people figure it out. The damage is done rate. It's that scary and we're only in two thousand and twenty one, twenty twenty right now we record this so. The twenty. Twenty Five, twenty thirty when this stuff is really mature and computers are quantum in things are ridiculous. What does it look like? You can't you talk about fake news now? Lease, we can call bs on fake news now, a management. -nology forensics to look at food and certify it. One of the things it's going to be. The people are going to slowly learn to appreciate more is the value of live. Yeah because I'm not saying they can't descript script or or monkey with something live and sure they'll be able to. But at least for the time being a lot harder. You know I've often thought. Let's say that let's say I'm a politician. and. There's a reporter standing in front of me WHO's hostile. and standing over that reporter shoulder cameraman who has the camera trained on my face. And the hostile reporter asks me something trying to trick me into saying something? I don't WANNA say. Right I've often thought. That you. An history historically, I thought that you as that politician. Should. Just listen in smile when they ask you that question. And then say whatever you want to say now they do that to a certain degree now. Right. Tell me. You know you know did you have sexual relations with that woman? What, and then you they asked the question and then you say. I'm really looking forward to improving the economy in my next term. Like he just say whatever you want because the cameraman doesn't see the reporter. Yeah, you could just say. She never said that. Dr. will now unfortunately, there's going to be half a dozen other people standing around with their phone point the whole thing where you can't fake that. But historically, there was probably a camera, maybe a couple. Kissed as long as the camera doesn't see that girls that reporters lips talking. You say whatever you want and I'm just going to answer however I want. I think I think there's a there's A. Billion dollar. Business. Opportunity for whatever corporation that decides to incorporate some bullet proof verification of Diagnostics. Yeah yes. So that you can get maybe you get a badge on the bottom of the screen that says certified real or something because it's going to get to the level where it's fake is indistinguishable from real. Again, we wanted know the that company that certifies that are they bed state or a blue state exactly or erosion is. Red County Blue County, I need to know that from. Or is that round Wesak Man Ed. So crazy it's. So it's of but it's fun right I mean that stuff is scary but the whole world of all this stuff is changing like. I'm really existed. See what you think about the script when you look. From an editor's stamped on. I'm considering using it like this. We can photo in the Audio podcast, right? Yeah like wow I. could I could look and sound brilliant puzzle have a generated transcript that I can use and. To list the cost or what are you paying like thirty five cents a minute or so No it's not it's an annual theme when we look at the pricing page. So here's here's pricing. So, they got the free trial and then the creator, which is ten hours of transcription a month so. PODCAST. Yeah. Four podcast in our eat you're not touching that and then, but you go up to the pro level. That's when you get the overdubbed technology here. So that's when you know you get to train it an insert, your voice, and all that. Yeah, it's interesting. It's really interesting in this one yet thirty hours I don't know when I'd ever need thirty hours of transcription but when you when you Frederik van Johnson Industries gets bigger than Leo LaPorte. That's. Why? Yeah I think I, think before it gets to that point it we'll have pivoted into something completely different. I think Leo Leo is an inspiration one hundred percent but I don't think he's the Northstar of where I WANNA go. He's already done that why do I wanna go there right. I want to build a house. I don't want to move into a house if somebody else built he's already the podfather. He's not the podfather. The podfather is Adam Kurt. Oh that's right. All Adam curry literally invented podcasting with he did. He Wind? Sorry Sorry, Yeah Right You Don't rewrite don't rewrite history. Right I used to listen to Adams podcast is he still doing that show which one member of the guy he was doing a show A. God for a long time called the daily Source Code Daily Source Code Yes, that's the one I was listening to, and then he did another one that was like really kind of. Right wing or some. Kinda weird an polarizing and too political I. Think I watched a couple of episodes of it and it was just like. It doesn't agree with me, but it was just like to conspiratorial and all this stuff and I was like you know if I wanna see that I could turn on the news so so His source code was cool. I'M GONNA get. There's your edit point if you wanna cut this out source code. Cool. So, Pausing Please Record Oga okay we're recording again. You decide if you don't want to use it but I just wanted to give the EH point there. So I'm actually a huge fan of the no agenda show. Then I won and I will defend it briefly. So. The no agenda show started in two thousand and seven I believe. and. It was a by product of him Adam and John C devora working together at a company called me be O. in San Francisco and they used to go out to dinner and just chat and they one day they said we should record these conversations. And in the beginning, it was just them using on the world with no agenda. With no agenda. Now it has become has grown and evolved into something different than that origin but the core thing of what the no agenda podcast is is that it is. Two guys with obvious tech backgrounds looking at the news and looking at the news as delivered by multiple news outlets. and. Then deconstructing it. And saying, Oh okay. Well, this was set on this newscast. But. Let's look at WHO's. WHO's advertising on that show? and. This was said on this newscast and let's Likud's advertising there. And then you start seeing patterns and you start seeing that certain networks lean one way or a little bit different. I'm not talking about Fox and CNN leaning I'm talking about like little things like Anna Johnny divorce. In two thousand in. Twelve I think had a had a website going where he was. The lead up to the election or he was making he was saying NBC is obviously pro this this candidate and CBS leans here and ABC. But what they're really good at it taking apart the news and also and as far as Americans we're not good at this looking at news from around the world. And taking it taking it all apart and seeing what's really going on I will tell you I have one hundred percent given up on listening to the mainstream media news anymore what I'd much rather do is to continue to pay those guys to read the news for me. Listen to the news for me I mean these guys listen to hours of C-span a week to get I was talking about getting at it live. And they're getting the real deal and then they break down and they show you what's actually happening. Got, news for you. It's a lot different than what you hear listening to CNN or Fox or CBS. it's. Starting to the news? I stopped listening I think it was during the the. the election cycle you know would trump got elected. It was like because. Remember how hot it got towards the end there host like mudslinging and hate in this and you know it was just it was just yeah it was too much. I started listening to all news and cut out all political podcasts and I stopped I, muted people that were grandstanding on facebook you know like. You should just known as your life will be better arms. One of the things they talk about one of the things that they talk about is an and I agree is that Their mission is to take take apart the news and explain it. Because of that. What is the news been for the last four years? It's been about, let's tear down Donald. Trump. Let's exposed AL trump. Let's talk about Donald Trump. Let's explain what a monkey ass hat donald trump is guy. That's what they talk about. They'll they'll go through it. They'll explain it and they'll, and they'll show times when he's being misquoted. Or I love this phrase you're being accurate but not precise. Yes he said that. But he said a lot more to. You know and they'll, and they'll lay that stuff out and win in. The problem is is if you do that, you're immediately label a trump apologised. Problem though, right that's the that's true. That's the problem because I think life was much simpler when you and I were growing up right because it was you could trust the news whatever they told you what happened able wasn't. It probably wasn't but we we thought you could trust Ted. Brokaw in all those people that were telling the news from whatever Mr Brok. We could trust them and it was like the news is coming on ABC happened crap okay ABC having. Now we I. Don't feel like we have maybe maybe no agenda is it but I don't feel like we have a trusted source. We have biased news on both sides we podcast it's just a world of bias which means if there's so much bias out there, you can't trust anybody. So then that leads to stress because you don't know what the Hell is going on in the world so and if you WANNA get. This yeah. You can't spend all your time doing what would divorce? In Curry do sifting through the tea leaves and trying to make sense of it. No one has time for that, right? I don't even I don't even have enough time to actually listening to they pretty six hours a week two, three hour shows a week. He's a now about four hours of that is actually reporting or would they call media deconstruction? Quite a bit of it is them. Thinking they're sponsors. And they don't and here's the thing they don't have sponsors. They are funded solely on people sending them money. If you were to send them money and say, Hey, I, love the show you know please tell my Wife I. Think she's She's beautiful and I'm the luckiest guy on the planet. They'll say I'll cases coming crisper again he wants to say that is he thinks his wife is beautiful and he's the luckiest guy on the planet and Chris. Thanks. Thanks for the one hundred dollars to help support the show. They spend quite a bit of time in every episode. Thanking the the listening the listeners. And they've even gone one step further to call those listeners producers because what is a producer do? Well, they pay for everything. and. So we're producers. Now if you listen to show, you're a producer and they get a lot of input they have listeners in every one of the three letter. Agencies in in DC, they have people that work on nuclear subs that our listeners. Were producers they have people in all every branch of government every branch, the only or are they doing video audio? No no no they don't want to be. But mostly because Adam Adam has a a bit of turrets that manifest itself. We're Dick's and he hates himself on, which is weird because we all know him from. MTV. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I gotta say I gotTA. Say. I, get the complaints that people have I do I do understand that. But listen to them extensively for the last thirteen years extensively and I gotta say it's the only source of news I even remotely trust. while. Say What you? Would it would it what did? What was the deal Joe? Rogan. Signed with with spotify then get like five, hundred million. But zillion dollars, but he had to move to Texas to get something the check take now I, don't. I. Wonder I. Wonder Why they didn't get that kind of funding in would they have taken it? Out Powerhouse Rogan is a rumour two, thousand, nine, hundred dollars come and go no no, they don't have the listeners. Rogan. Hasn't giant audience a giant. He's he joe Rogan is the Johnny Carson of our era. Of this of this era. Yeah, somebody somebody goes on Rogan everybody knows about it. That's everybody seems to. See. I mean he's he's a monster and he has a very simple format. He just talks and ask questions. Actually listen he doesn't have to be interrupted by stupid commercial breaks for you know more pills and pharmaceuticals to pay for everything. So he can let he can let nothing more frustrating than watching a good discussion as I say this regard they can we get out of here and we're watching a good conversation have to get. Cut Off he let me. Let me pause you right there. We gotta take a commercial break real quick. You'd be smart movie back after these messages from Pfizer. I. I love that model though I mean you know we gotta yeah we'll wrap this up but you know this the whole podcasting model you know even even above YouTube. I think is really really interesting to me. You know just the way the. Democratization of opinions. You know whether you agree with them or not the fact that the gate is open and they can be out there is just like the definition of free speech. I, love it I love it. It's Chris. Fenwick. If if people want to catch up with you. And? Follow you or higher you or otherwise harass you. Where should they go? Well, if you WANNA hire me go to slice editorial dot Com if you WANNA. Hear my ridiculous musings about our industry. It would be correspondent on twitter if you just WanNa see my woodworking stuff and family stuff. Just my personal life that's on instagram because it's not that personal by put on Instagram is notes and it's Chris Fenwick on instagram. I'm Christian God. Awesome cool man. Thank you for doing this. We gotta do this again. Let's make this a regular occurrence. This could be. Five to six years no matter what it's happening no, no, no. Five to six. Years of then yeah this has to be our little personal. You know bite on no agenda so. Who Don't have to move you don't have to use any of that stuff if you don't WANNA use IT I. Law. The twist flow is is a non edited stream of consciousness. So you know my audiences are me they know what I know. So all right. All right man well, you have a good weekend and be safe. You're you're in Sacramento now did you say yeah, I'm living in Rancho Cordova I. Asked you. Yeah. Yep I know exactly where you are. We'll be safe up there and enjoy that heat today. At one hundred going to be in the later. Little. toasty. Crispin. Y You take care man thanks later.

Liebowitz Simone biles editor Chris Chris Renwick Liebowitz Chris Fenwick google Annie Liebowitz reporter Chicago. TA front porch Michelle pfeiffer Dustin Hoffman California vibe magazine Mr Johnson
Episode 237: Raven Returns

RuPaul: What's The Tee with Michelle Visage

1:11:45 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 237: Raven Returns

"So we've got raven here. You made it. I made it. Yeah and now you've done the podcast. How which is really really like? I WANNA say five years. Probably maybe have eyebrows eyebrows. No what have you done touched touched you know because I since we took those pictures for Vanity Fair which we're GonNa talk about yes. I have let my eyebrows grow in there. That is didn't know this is drawn. Most of it is drawn on a little bit of hair right here but most of it is drawn on so you. You're doing that for You're going out to walk the streets of Hollywood butch. I'm going back to being a man. I'm going back to being. No you know when I'm I'm not working if I'm not working no. I'm not going to be shaving eyebrows. No but I work. I work all the time. So it's rare from eyebrows. Really come back. In and they've they've staged a revolt in the years where less and less of them come back they said. Oh You keep pushing the way we are not coming back. It's like a bad relationship. It gets to a point where one of you goes fuck you. Yeah I'm done I'm done. I'm out exact said by the browser they by you but you know that's the story with Lana Turner used they. She said that In Hollywood because she was a big star in the forties and fifties They would pluck tuck them very thin and she has. I think Swedish a Swedish or Norwegian background so the browser stopped growing so she had no more browse. They just stopped stopped growing. And I I don't pump my I shaved mine you know. Yeah it's also it's easier. It's easier than they also grow back easier to grow back easier but plucking them. You know damages the root cycle so right so here you are. You're back I just. I just followed you on instagram. Because I knew you had an instagram. You don't have a twitter and whoever that is raven honey on twitter that is not you know. Why don't you send a cease and desist? Everyone thinks it's you well okay. Here's the one. The one time I got upset was when they were tweeting about how fierce of a performance more minutes I think it was lady Gaga beyond say had done some award show. Somebody stop this person because I would never in doing that no I don't I'm not sure who's do we know and I know the tweet as me they do and back years ago. I tried Putting an end to it now with an instagram there. There was someone doing an instagram and they were responding adding to comment as though they were really yeah to my mother. You're kidding me. So my mom. Text me and said is this you. Yeah and I said no I have a love hate relationship with social media. I know I know you do but you do have an instagram. Yes Yarden started that he you should you. I Have Martin call twitter and instagram. Whoever is doing using your name and say this is not their risk misrepresenting? They will shut it down a little right now. We're having an issue with instagram. I'm locked out of it. You're locked out of instagram. Mars got locked out of Heaven and mocked either instagram. How do you get locked out of? He got a new phone. Because you know the new iphone. Yeah whatever came out. He got a new phone so we uploaded all of the absent. Who is phone and he went to go log into instagram? Something crossed. He tried it again. Then he asks me. Hey isn't instagram connected to your facebook so it could be right the whatever. Yeah I said yes then. I try to didn't work. So after so many failed attempts at logs route so then he emailed them. They said I had to take a picture holding sending a piece of paper with the date. My name username random code. Yeah and we never heard back from them so we're going to do a little more investigating and yeah well you know It's Raven underscore. Yeah that's the one. Yeah because does it has a lot of pictures of you from the job you did for wet and wild and has Pictures of you from Tuten boot. So that's that is the right one. Yes yes yeah the little videos and I think it's like about a year maybe it's going to be two years old or something like that. Yeah so let's talk about. Let's talk about stuff that we've been doing now. Obviously you did all the make up for all the makeup for drag race all make for. Aj in the Queen. Now you text me the other day saying you saw the trailer and your you said based on that we're definitely getting a second season. I said I smell season two and it smells like fish heads sunrise. It's beautiful gorgeous beautiful. I had no doubt in my mind that it wouldn't be but that. How long is it a minute? It's actually that trailer is two minutes and sixteen seconds. It went by like this and I watched. I don't know how many times I've watched it. I watched it. I saw it on my phone and I was like. Oh my gosh out then I watched it on my TV. So I could see the whole thing and in hd. Not and. I'm like oh she still good uh-huh uh-huh and it's here. It's finally here because we did that a year ago. Yeah it was as a year ago. you know Almost six months of shooting now. Obviously you're not there on the days. I'm not in Drag No. I got to see a lot of stuff. The three maybe three days a week three days a week. You see a lot of stuff that you weren't there for because it does seem epic it's like so much coverage coverage of the two people are going cross country so there's a lot of coverage so much. What did you see the trailer that surprised you the most Well I there. I don't WanNa give away so much but the way they put together you you going up into the rafters and folly the way you look up. That looks like it could be you right. Well yes well. There are some stunt. Yes happening it looked. It was seamless but high will say that you did do most yourself all the dancing. Is You All the dancing but there are a lot of dangerous stunts. Like I when I bust through the window with US boots on. I was actually there that day. Ah Because that was a that was in the beginning status but one of the sweetest parts is you to sitting on the bed. Oh at the world is GonNa Fall in love. They have no idea. They have no idea what what they're in for. Because you know watching someone who's been I was she's been home schooled and then she's also I don't. I can't even describe what makes her so charismatic but she is poppers but she's different from the character she's playing on she's an actress she's also she's she's a really sweet little girl but the characteristics playing is a bad ass little thug. Yeah but they're still gonNA fall in love with that that s because the sweet little. Oh girl does shine through a little bit. We'll see I didn't get. Oh and one of my favorite parts in the trailer is where you say something about the And Form Diana Ross. The former whatever and she goes who's Diana Ross and when you turn and her reaction is she's it's so quick but it's so like Oh gosh did I am. I GONNA get fucked up right right right. Brilliant that's for me I've seen every episode. It hasn't come on yet. I don't know when this podcast is can air. But she believes everything she says every comes out of her mouth she believes it as an actor. She's ten years old and she did. She's eleven now Watching her do. This role is amazing because she believes it everything and so you know for me to say how dare you. Her reaction is a real reaction. Yeah you know so. I'm excited for our and it's an it's it is going to it. It's going to we stupid. It's going to be hilarious. It's going to be dark dark dark thing. There is It's I think people are not going there not expecting acting what this is and I'm happy that I don't get I'm not seeing everything So I get I'm GonNa Watch and go ooh Fun I love those big stacks Aksa fake cash you can if you really look at as you can tell that is not real but then again what is real what is reality. And that's the question that mankind has been asking for years for centuries and will continue to but You know for me watching it. It does feel it feels like we actually went to all those states. It feels like we travel cross country and we did that in a ten mile radius. Yeah I think the furthest we went no Long Beach was the furthest Long Beach. We did film some in Long Beach. What's at sweetwater doe? Say adults say to let Shay was. What was that place? I don't know it's a near Del. Didn't burn no stole. How do you say sweet? Don't say it was. It was the little mountains. The little ranch get ready Agua. I'll go adults with autumn Agua Dulce. Yeah that woman lent US her house. That's right yes that was and so now okay. So was this now obviously. Obviously you've been doing makeup on drag race for years doing a feature like a a series like this. How different is it well? I don't veer too far from I. Guess the equation or what. We d formula that we do for that. The only thing is I know it. We're not in a controlled lighting right. Not In an area knowing the lights are all positioned to a spot to know what marks you hit and where you're going to be so it wasn't too much different but it's I still looking at it. I thought well these it looks beautiful. I there's one scene where you're pumping gas and you turn and do this and like Oh daylight it's beautiful uh-huh you still looked beautiful gorgeous. Yeah I don't really veer too far from that and even when I've gone and done a pride festival or whatever I I still paint exactly the way I'm GonNa Paint if going into a club because guess what I'm a man and there's GonNa be lines on the side of my face. There's going to be white stuff down down there. Yeah like. That's just what that's why when we get to a certain age and we know we've got tapes in places and we don't want to go out into the daylight we want to work in controlled environment with a drunk crowd. Yeah you look fabulous and I think everyone should have a couple of drinks before forty four show episode of our show. Well that was the thing too is and I told Michael Patrick King and you know my concern was that I The make up that I put on is it's an illusion and that there are certain lightings that will break that illusion. I was worried about. They says don't don't worry about it because we're going to look out for that. I mean the reason you're tired is because you're ru Paul. Yeah and we want to see the goods we're not here to to Sort of make it look hideous. So I- every shot I've seen in. The show looks really gorgeous really. Well that means means the world to me because it's not just you telling me do the makeup No fix this. And it's not me saying I'm doing your makeup and this is what you're gonNA wear. We are working together so there's never been a time that it's been I have felt like like I'm walking into something going. Oh my gosh I hope I don't mess up. There's been times where you're like bitch. You need to fix this or that's too much I don't think so and and then you do that. And that's the way it works so I'm happy that you looked at it and thought okay. Yeah do you in this show. Do you have a favorite look. I'll tell you what what my one of my favorite looks in this show is. There's a flashback of when I have a big fight with Mario Tone and I'm wearing a yellow Tina Turner. Half I'm dresses is Tina Turner and you decided to do a thin brow because we decided that that would that flashback would have been what fifteen years ago or it would have been around the turn of the century the turn of the century two thousand something so the makeup in the lighting lighting. The way it's let it is so beautiful there's one I don't think I have another I have seen I've seen a scene of of that fight. It's gorgeous a thin brow and the skin looks really really good. It's really do you have a favorite look of all of the looks. In the age in McQueen the Jamaican nurse Bitch. Don't think I didn't fuck in pause it. Would you please tell everybody what that look is so that was a look you. I think you really wanted to do you. Were like oh no. We're going to go. It's going to be frosty Wayang shadow and a thin. What did you say I want them to look like sperms and it was a dark lip pencil and in a very It was like those women you see. Who are you know? They just put on what they need to put on. I look good and I'm going and I think that was that was fun to do because it was so out of the norm But I think my favorite makeup was the chandelier. Oh Yeah Yeah. Yeah the really white pulled out sparkly. Yes elite I love. Orange that Really Orange Orange Orange Hair on Yup Yup. Almost I looked like a it was an up to what it looked like a fire. Look like It's weird I love it. Hey we're going to go to break. We've got raven here. We'll be right back after this. Let's talk about squarespace. 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Done applications come in Ziprecruiter's analyze each one and you know what they do. They spot like the top candidates so you never miss a match. They send them right over to them. They spotlight them. They say these are the ones you cannot mess and Bing Bang Boom. You're staffed immediately. ziprecruiter is so effective that four out of five employers who post on Ziprecruiter get quality candidates through the site within the first day. That's how major ziprecruiter cruder is right now. Our listeners can try ziprecruiter for free at ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash ru that's ZIP recruiter. Dot Com slash argue ziprecruiter dot com slash ru zip recruiter. The smartest way to hire we're back with Raven 'cause there's that one thing in the chandelier where I'm on the floor and then I look up real quick that's gorgeous and you and the thing is you look and you're still lips thinking you're still at work. Yes yes yeah well. The Synopsis of aging the Queen is is Might do I play a down on her. Luck Drag Queen Ruby Red. WHO's been ripped off by her boyfriend and who go on? My character has to go on a cross country tour. And there's a stowaway with this little kid and we go from town to town and There's there's a performance in every episode sometimes to performances so We would Raven would be there to put me in drag for those performed performances. Sometimes the performance would would last over a couple of days. I don't know how many days I was in that. Judy Garland that one was a few. But the way I was the last look that lasts though that huge tool dress were that was I think that took us five days. It was probably five days. Yeah because does it. It takes place in so many different places also takes place out in natural daylight where once it got to a certain time of day it was like. Oh well yeah we gotta go right so and that was up in the Aqua Dolchai Ranch or whatever that was actually kind of pretty it is now. It's when they were filming something something else there while we were there was somebody. I don't remember what it was. They were filming something else but Do you so as a makeup artist. What is is your preferred Work Situation Film television fashion still photography. You obviously did the cover for a vanity fair and vogue with me Annie Liebowitz and interview and Plastic Interview Magazine Plastic magazine. Yeah a lot of print work this year. Yes yeah. What is your favorite What's your favorite Venue to do that. Stop you make well I. I honestly had a lot of fun to engage in the Queen. I love doing drag race. I and I've also loved doing the print work. The thing with print work is there are different people who put their hands on it and different people who have like retouching and stuff at. Yeah an an a vision for what they want the photos to look like So going into it you think okay will they whenever anyone asks. Oh we want to take pictures of you Well you what. I look like So then they started step in and go. Well we want to do this and we want to try this and it's like okay. Well let me go get ready And then let me go stand in front of the thing and let me model. Yeah let me do my job. So when they start to try and divert from that. It's like why. Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel? Why are you trying to change? Changed the equation. So print is a little. I always get a little nervous. Yeah go oh what is going to look like because someone may retouched something in a way that you go. That's not how that's supposed to look right. That's not how that looked when we did it yet. See my thing with the Vani figure. I wish there was more retouching. I in fact it looks like there's none. I thought the same thing. Yeah now the pictures inside where you're in the gold chain link young. You're up against wall those There there be gorgeous are they are they. We touched touched. I think they may be a little bit lead. Even when I was standing there watching on the monitors everything still looked soft and it was in such a Contri- tiny little those phase. Yeah and There's that one we've got your arms up and it looks almost like they did something to the top half of your body Were they really leash. Shrunk it down because your legs. Look I mean well they are that long but you know sheep because of the physician of the camera. She's so far low. They look longer longer. You you know but I I wanted there to be more retouching. Well because you would toward would you agree and stuff you could see course it outline and and there was there I remember Matthew always talking about retouching always saying you're not doing doing anything to to to light anyone you're just saying. Hey this is how this was supposed to look right road just kind of pull that down a little bit so I always think I think the same thing like. Why didn't they just a little bit? And we are men in young transactions that we're trying to fool the eye hut just this kind of soften a little bit because the what appeared on Vanity Fair when she took the picture she was so excited about that picture because after when she took cook it she mocked it up and and and that's what ended up being so what's to explain for you guys I'm doing the photo session Actually I should go back a little bit because we did four set ups for the four different looks for the cover and With two armed guards with expensive jewelry is jewelry is real. It was over. I don't know two and a half million dollars is worth jewelry so they had to armed guards there but actually one of the looks didn't show up in the magazine. Did it the chain mail address. That's not in the magazine Kazini. There's a chain I look I I look you did. That's right. That's not in there. No meanwhile so I come out to the set in the first outfit and she and she loved it and I took pictures came out in the second outfit which may have been the one that ended up as the cover. Maybe no that was the last one right. And and as she's taking the pictures she's going Shit Shit Shit Shit Shit Shit Shit. She's like getting really excited. Annie Liebowitz then the when I came out in the third which was the cover one. Yes she started. I started taking pictures. He shared going fuck. Fuck Fuck Fuck fuck she. We started doing excited. The fourth setup was that gown which I don't think we shot out there only shot at back stay in the dressing that young. Yeah so for the one that turned out to be the cover that she was saying. Fuck fuck fuck floor. While we were getting ready for the last setup. She took that picture. Put it in the computer. Puts Vanity Fair Lo whatever that's called on the on the in the picture and and she may have done minimal Nimmo retouching on it well and it just looks like what she did was adjusted. Because you're very darken. It yes she adjusted the color very dark and and she made the highlights look very white. Yeah and didn't put any there was I wanna be but there was something I there was some work I want it done. There was work I wanted done on there. But her style L. is what we get. It doesn't it is gorgeous but I am proud on the cover of Vanity Fair yes brilliant and meanwhile meanwhile you know we shot with any leap of its months before for Vogue and those are beautiful photographs also but yeah. I'm used as to a little bit more. A little tiny away at time waste is already very just come back from Europe for that remember. I was on vacation for three weeks and you were eating bread and I was eating bread. I was eating whatever the hell I wanted to eat and I came back and shot that picture but of another more backstory to that was that we were trying to get vanity fair to shoot that while we were in production for a drag race twelve and all stars in all whatever that was But somehow it didn't the happen and I would say I said to them. Look here. I'm a window. Here's the window we're GONNA box all this shit up and be gone. Be Done with with it if you can't get it done then Sorry I can't do it. I can't do it because everything everybody disperses. You had your jobs. Curtis has his jobs anyway. I want on vacation but they got. VH1 got netflix involved. And said can you guys Get Him to do this thing outside the window because I was. I was fine with not doing it. I was saying you know if you can't do it as window. I can't do it but they got Michael. Patrick King on the phone said look he said if you're serious about this this project that we worked for two and a half years on Asia and the Queen and if you're serious about making sure that everybody gets to know about this project that you love so much you'll do this cover and you said okay. Yeah I do. Lv there so you know having eaten Brad and been in Europe and doing all the stuff. I put it all together and it I it the thing is this your you look at that picture and you break get down and say that is a fifty nine year old man dude. Yeah okay she. She looks good exactly so there. I know when you get to a certain point in life. You want some barriers share you. 'CAUSE I was ten. I was ten pounds lighter when we were filming. So that's when I wanted it to happen and you know and I would allow my eyebrows to grow in and do you know I want to have that little break because the as you well know because you've been with me the whole time the past year and a half. I went from job to job to job to job to job. There was no break sometimes. Two or three jobs in one day and one day exactly you know so You know anyway. It worked out and and it's beautiful. I couldn't be more proud and I know any Liebowitz is really proud of it. She says well. Let's do some more. Let's I'd love to do a day in the life of you know I I said Okay and this is going to be just it would be probably next year. I don't know what what magic whatever but you know but they're not they're not wanting to do our she's not not wanting to follow you on a day on the sat or she didn't say she I said listen. We're going to be filming season. Two of all of dry grace UK In in March Shelf. You WanNa come over then you can do it. I don't know what for what magazine maybe just for her own personal stuff you know but There will be a season two aging. I know there will be a season. Two of Agent Akin. I know at this point right now. We don't know you have to wait until Sula airs. Tell People Watch people talk. There'll be a season two. There's so much excitement around it. I mean just because the trailer came out yesterday yesterday Saturday. There's so much excitement rounded people. I don't know if they they didn't know what to expect. They didn't know what it was going to be but having seen it it looks a huge. It looks big it. It gives you everything That you had hoped for which is the emotion the performance all the queen's jeans are in it are you in it you're not cause And what is your title on it. What are you just make up department? I am ru Paul's drag makeup technician. And I put David protrusion AK Raven because a lot of people don't know the the when we first started filming was we and we kind of all introduced ourselves. We had that that harassment. Yeah and I would say oh. I'm David and then we would start talking. And so after a couple of days someone came up to me and they said I was told her name is Raven and I said Oh. We'll yet got and he said Oh no I was talking to rue and she said WHO's David on the show. Oh no no. That's Raven so I just go the and I don't care. Yeah I'm not that person so but it's I I would love to have done something in the show. So but yeah it. Did it the way it worked. It wasn't in the car. Well I'm sure season two so I'm sure you will for season. I will actually play the part of aging could you god Dean Dean of Aj when you look back at that time because we were all together for it felt like it almost six months. What what memories? What are your favorite memories of of being around? Little is E. G.. We'll her you would hear her down the hallway singing and she was singing. No one was that no one by Shaquille uh-huh uh-huh. She was singing that she would sing. I will survive. She was using with math. A lot of fleetwood Mac she but she was. I also would see this child who Who they were? No one broke labor laws but there was one night. Were you guys were filming And it was like the second or third night and we were out at that Deli in downtown Hollywood readjust left the club not in the chaps. Oh yeah and it was late. She was still out there. Yeah doing it and doing it as sheet. And she you even between take. She doesn't lose the fire. Yeah she's like let's go. Let's do this uh-huh so she I think she is. I think people are GonNa really lose their minds with her. I D two and then she not the picture the photo of guys in the RV Looks like a young looks exactly like Madonna. I've been saying that forever ever. She looks like a young Madonna. And it is just a me. I can't wait to when Madonna sees her. She's GonNa she's GonNa flip. She's going to book her. They say. Hey girl when it comes to wanted to do a guest spot a lot. Yeah Yeah my memories of shooting with izzy on the set really is. You're with her all the time. All the time is this is the laughter and how open she is. It's interesting to see someone who's he's ten years old. She was ten then be so open and not guarded and for an actor that is obviously you want someone who can who doesn't sort of freeze. He's up when the cameras aren't she's always open and she's her parents. Were there the whole time. Always in in earshot always right there and she behaves like someone who is fearless because she's protected and that there's nothing nothing bad would happen to her and that's what's so amazing when you see her You obviously you have to think of. I have to think of my own childhood and think what would it have been like. Had I grown up in a situation like that at ten years old. Doing what you're doing now do what I'm doing now but also just doing whatever where I felt so secure and loved and no shame. There's no shame in her game. Well there it's also it's also a different time. It's there's people are a little more free. Yeah a little more I guess out and they're a little more boisterous but people are also a lot more assholes. Yeah Yeah you grew up in a very religious background I did I well my mom. My Mom's family is very religious. This my dad had converted to Mormonism for her And then when we were growing up it was like are we. Aren't we wait. Are you have to convert to Mormon as it. You don't just say okay. I'll be a mormon. No you have to like Judaism you have to baptized and and go through all of this stuff. And it's were you baptized. I was baptized eight. Pig's blood I think that's what it tasted like. No you have. It's it's one of those things that you know. Religion is so so we are to me every religion not just mormonism every religion and I just don't feel This can be my religion. This can beer with everyone can practice their own thing and people say oh this is my religion whatever but when it starts to get to Places where people are excluded and people are not allowed to be involved. Were you have to pay a certain amount of money to be out this. Oh Yeah Yello all right thank bitch please through that. Yeah and so you grew up as a Mormon and at what point were you able to say Okay Sia. I'm I'm done. Why did that when I was twelve But let's be honest. It was like five or six when I was like. What the Hell's this the crap because we were going to church and it was there for three hours a day away every day? Monday a four-month Monday Sarno Sunday. Sorry so Sundays you go to church and you're there for three hours and it was like Gosh you have to sit here and listen to these people talk and then just ran rammer. Then you go to this thing and then you go to this thing and it was a little too much from then then as I started to see what the belief system was is when I started to go Is it really isn't for me and I understood you. You believe this cool. I don't so when I got a little bit older when I realized Mountain yeah three hours a day is. That's a lot especially especially if nobody's going to be talking speaking in tongues. Nobody's going to be using their time using their tongues or any any hot gospel music with the you know the group. They're taking you to church you know. It was all reverend. Yeah it was an organ a P- a pianist a woman sitting there and someone doing this. And you just you you had to be very This is the way that you know. Christ is very serene. Yeah and they also in high school they go to seminary which his church before school everyday. Oh it's a lot. I tried it but as I'm like getting ready to go to Mormon Mormon seminary I'm waiting for the person to come pick us up to take us. I'm smoking a cigarette. Maha and drinking coffee which is not allowed. No cigarettes cigarettes no cost so it was like what am I doing. Yeah I tried it I was trying to you know appease my mother and But but I think we're at a point now where we realize this is your thing. Yeah this is my thing. Yeah keep it that okay. We're GONNA go to break. We've got raven here. We're GONNA ask about all things Raven after the break you know. We love our quip toothbrushes. We talk about this all the time because we are obsessed with them quip the the makers of the electric toothbrush want you to know the one single discovery that matters most for your dental care it is simply this that if you have good habits you you are good. I love that because so many people think they're doing the right thing by getting a really hard toothbrush. That makes her gums bleeding. They're like Oh yeah. I'm getting a good no. What so you need to know is brushing for two minutes twice a day and floss regularly no matter? What brand do you use? That is the most important thing quip makes it simple simple starting with an electric toothbrush. refillable floss and anti cavity toothpaste quips. Electric Brush has sensitive sonic vibrations. Oh we love them so much with a built-in Hilton timer. 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I don't know how how many years now three years four I don't know the three and then you know all the covers that I've been doing with the interview magazine Vanity Fair and then I did that. Lay Out in Vogue magazine earlier this year. Lots of stuff commercials all kinds of stuff way after after you left drug. What what what season where you want to seasons? He's into an in years ago. It was that ten years ago we felt right where it's two thousand nineteen now We filmed that in two thousand nine. Oh and aired in two thousand ten. Oh my goodness. So what How has your relationship to drag race chains now? Having having been on that side of it as a contestant to now you're in the inner workings where you are working behind the scenes. What without giving giving away? What would people be the most surprised about the whole process? Well I think that they would on I. I think a lot of people Believe that your just some puppet that you everyone puts together okay go And that's not the case. Ace you are very involved in it and there are times where I have to step away because you have to have a meeting You have to talk with you know other people involved with the show so I think a lot of people would be shocked to see that you get there early in the morning and and you're there 'til very late at night. Yeah sometimes I lasted wanted to go. Yeah and you're involved the whole the whole step of the way. Yeah so for me. I didn't know all of that and I never thought Oh she's you know she's a puppet or she just but I did think she maybe maybe she just has to do this. Yeah maybe she just has to do that right. I remember when we were walking through When we were filming season two in in culver clover city? Yeah which we've shot Vanity Fair right around the corner from there. Yeah we were. We're going from Queens walking from one set to the other and you were in where their roller skating. Yes yes and you and you looked at us. And you're like La la La la La la La and you weren't you because you weren't. You're not supposed to talk to us right. You're only supposed to talk when we we are when the cameras are rolling because they want to get everything. Yes and I remember thinking this species this roller skating and then and then the thing was houses. I saw you in a suit early in the morning you walked and say hello then. We see you in roller skates and then an hour later. You're back in your suit like okay. What's going on so it was? It was kind of funny too because I was like. What is this bitch do? We were in the studios that they're different sound stages ages and I always carry my rollerskates trunk of my car so this sound state that we weren't using for production but was sound. She's we'd have to walk through to get get to from one sound stage to the next. I thought Oh my goodness is the it's a concrete floor. It's perfect for getting Polish Polish. Beautiful so I put my headphones on and I am on my lunch break. I'm just roller skating. Like my own personal roller rink. Well they had taken. I guess you guys to lunch your back from lunch and you guys had to walk through there and that's when you guys Saami but Yeah and I thought okay you leave. You're done but you you are are your hands on no hand. If I'm doing anything I'M GOING TO BE HANDS ON. And you know if you have to pay more pay morpeth a little bit more but even if I do have some break. I'm doing another job you know if I'm I'm on the phone with some other business or Shady shady dealings. And most of these podcasts are done during lunch. Yes while you're in drag because that's the only time the guest judges are there. That's so you may get five minutes to eat five minutes eight ten minutes to eat and then it's Do A podcast. PODCAST has or on the phone with produces of age and the queen or or you know putting other things together. You know it's work. This is work so Yeah so you would have you. I guess people ask you all the time. If you were to drag race today how different would you be. I would not not different at all. No and in fact I I just did an interview not too long ago and they asked me the same thing and ice because things have changed in the last ten years and very quickly where you can see these queens trying to play for the camera camera trying to go. Oh I don't WanNa say this or I don't WanNa do that or I want to be careful. I don't WanNA get in trouble. I don't want the fans who cares right. You're go go for it. Yeah and I would not be any different. I I know people a lot of what was seen. People thought I was a little harsh show is a little L. caddy or Majia. Sassy but I also was competing in a in a competition. Yeah so you get to a point where nerves break things happen you say things. Yeah but I don't I wouldn't be any different but I don't think I could make it on the show now. Why not? The audition process is so much more intense than it. What it's their first challenge? Yeah this show is I. I mean that's true the things that they have to do to get on the show is a challenge in and of itself because of you know they realize. Oh now we WANNA see your snatch game Do a snatch game once. He's or we. That was the first match game but we weren't asked to do that in the audition. And then now oh we wanna see you make doc a costume out of ninety nine cents stores up so all of these things that I I could possibly have time to do it but I don't know if if I could make it on it would be. I would be like probably get to the second or third thing through the process. I don't fuck you guys on our because we give the girls a list of things they have to do for the audition we WANNA see Several of their outfits that they wearing them. Not just on a hanger. So you're saying I have this and we WANNA see a couple of snatch game Things and there's a few other criteria the couple of lip syncs. They WanNa see you make something out of About like ninety nine repurpose repurpose something. Yeah yes so that and that wasn't like that back if you're going and it just came today who would you do. Gosh you did. You did Paris Hilton on your that was okay. I had the thing is I brought to. I brought Paris Hilton and share and I was like none just share was just fun because I liked doing the makeup yup because it was so intense getting in there but then when I realized what the challenge was I thought no at this point. You need to be safe bitch. 'cause I had had a lip sync two times prior tired of that and I said just do pare. Tilden act like dumb blonde. And maybe she's not I don't know whatever but and then for all-stars for the Goffin. I did BEA Arthur which awful I don't know and the thing is now people are so touchy with going like why not go in and be Katherine Hepburn and and every Sucking thing you wrote is just a scribble. Does someone done that. Have they. Don't remember has someone done Katherine Hepburn. I don't remember. Is that going to be on the next season. I don't know well that's what I would. Yeah but then you get all these people from this organization decide going. Oh how could you do that. But that's never bothered. You has it. I what bothers me is the amount of ignorance from people not looking at the bigger picture and going. Wow Laugh have fun enjoy this. It's now everyone is so. Oh you are white You have to dress. Accordingly you cannot celebrate like okay. I used to do Every how herb every thanksgiving I would always do colors of the wind by Robin S From polk to Pocahontas Soundtrack. But it was like a dance track and I would dress. Oh no by Vanessa Williams right. Yes Yeah Robin S. Redid it. What Bitch Robin as did colors of the wind? uh-huh it is over you. I'm GONNA play for that. I don't know that hat. It's on an album called mouse house. Okay that's probably why you don't a she 'cause I'm upset. Yeah people don't really. Josh Raven is a Disney fags. NEEF Horse Yeah I love I love it love it so I would always do that and I would wear this this long pretty here with feathers in this really American thing yes and then I think it was through four years ago. The last time I did it everyone was mad. You can't dress like that you can't dress like like Pocahontas. And so do they know you're a man that that was my rebuttal. Yeah but it's you know it's just like One time I years ago I used to have piercings here and I had done frozen under your lips. Yup Yeah and I had been frozen by Madonna and I had recreated the look I did the you know. Oh you've ever you're and someone comes up to me afterwards. Oh my gosh I live for Madonna. I love Madonna so great but she doesn't have piercings under art under her lip and I said well she doesn't have a Dick recyc- where why are we like. Why why? Why did it have to be that way because drag us to be anything goes yeah? It's dangerous drive show up you do your Thing and I was never disrespectful to native American to You know even when I had like this Geisha type of a lecture. Never never disrespectful right and I could see if you're going to take these stereotypes that people have pigeonholed. You know a Persian. People are Peruvians that you would look at that and go. Oh Gosh that's you've gone too far right and I understand when there's a place where you've gone too far but when you're celebrating something say while the scrape but see the lighter you are. You're the lighter your skin. The less you're allowed to get away with anything like the less people WANNA say. Oh well that you can do that. Yup and it's I I don't know no I get it I get it. I you know we're going to break but you know this is the thing the human ego wants to be the one and who point something out so that they can get the credit for think this the the the human ego wants attention and it will take attention. Good bad ugly. It doesn't matter because the Human Eagle has a sneaking suspicion suspicion that it doesn't really exist so it needs need something to push up against to fight against to know that you actually exists. So they'll bring anything up. It doesn't even have to make sense. You can so you know you could be a dude dressing in feminine clothes. And they don't they miss the whole point of I know they miss all the what did they all. They have to be the one to point out there Excuse me I feel offended by this job. Don't get me started. Don't get me started. You know it's it's hard. Yeah and it's not. It doesn't seem like it's GonNa it's GonNa. It's getting worse it's getting worse. Feels like it's got the whole thing is going to crash and then we'll have to build everything back up again now. Did you say we have to go to break. I want to talk about Martin. But we'll talk about Martin after your love interest after. No No. He's not in there. We're going to go to break. We've got railway right-back. Hey all you website lovers like ruined myself we want to talk about squarespace. We get some great emails at Rupaul. PODCAST gmail.com remember that about your squarespace websites. You all can get a free trial With no credit card required just by going squarespace.com when you are blown away and ready to confirm a plan to use the offer code rudy. Get that ten percent off. So we've we've got a letter today. This one is from drew. He says Dear Ruin Michelle you have somehow achieved the impossible with your podcast. Not only do you have amazing guests interviews reviews and topics but you've also managed to make me actually enjoy address. Yeah we love that drew on most podcast. I tend to skip the ads but on. WHAT'S THE T? I literally look forward to them. After several seasons of hearing you talk about dragon death drop and making me Piss my next. I decided I should really check out. squarespace I work in digital marketing. Getting used to be the head of digital at Capitol Records UK running digital campaigns for acts. Like Sam Smith Five seconds of summer ad before that was the digital manager at it's Sony working with acts like one direction are girls little mix and Leona Lewis. I now run my own consulting business for independent artists helping them brand themselves online ability ability digital fan base. So not only. Did you square space to build my own website. Which is Chris O'Gorman dot com? That's Kris Gorman Dot com but I'm also oh constantly recommending squarespace to my clients that they can learn how to create their own awesome websites themselves and in the process save their precious budgets and resources to do they love creating their arts. I love the functionality of squarespace. How user friendly it is and how quick and simple? It is to set up a site. My clients are always amazed how quickly they can build a stunning looking site. And have it up and running and literally minutes thank you for introducing me to squarespace and in the process making me. A squarespace advocate to all my clients clients. So I love that love and hugs from Chris. I know it said the letters from drew. That's because our producer fucked up is from Chris. So thank you for that you guys and thanks again to squarespace squarespace and keeps sending in your websites to Rupaul. PODCASTS at gmail.com. If you are looking for someone to do this it's it's you and squarespace is the place to to go so when you are blown away and you already to confirm a plan use that offer code are you to get ten percents off. squarespace.com offer code are you. We are back doc with Raven. We're talking about age in the Queen and drag race and everything. Now you've been in a relationship with Martin for how many years now it will be sir seven really Long March that long Oh my goodness you're like an old Mary couple now pretty much. Yeah we have planned at when you met him do you. Oh my goodness I'm going to. I'm going to settle down with him anytime I've gone into Louis relationship. I've it's always been. That's what I foresee. It's never been. This is fun for now. I'm not wasting my time. So then it's just always been them wasting mine. I did see him as someone who I said. This is who I would love. TAPIE WITH HE HAS A. He's he's a very great man he's comes from a wonderful family and his views and beliefs and his thing. We align line on a lot of things and we are that that couple where it's like. No it's just stay home. Yeah let's watch a movie. Let's lay on the couch with the dogs. Yeah so but we don't feel like that it's like there's a spark gone or were feeble. Obviously not he's nine years younger than me but we I don't feel like it's it. It is that I still feel like every day is like new and fresh and fun and we enjoy each other but I you know I warned him and I know you've talked rose four. I warned him when we first started talking. That I'm on the go uh-huh uh-huh I'm busy. I've got things I need to do and I need to know if you can fit it. I'm not trying to say keep up Are you here to stay and and go through this with me. And there's a lot of compromise and you have to do. I'm sure for you and George. Yeah absolutely same way because you Georgia been together for We met in ninety four ninety four so I don't know the math on that but Longtime as long time but so compromise on his side company's on your side on both sides sides our his compromise. You how much time with your makeup career. How Michelle do you spend on the on the road? Well There are. There are times where I'm gone for quite quite some time but like when we filmed drag race. I'm only there every other day right so I get to see him every other day. So it's kind of Nice to be able to go away come home home and then the you know there are times right you know was out there for a week. I we see each other more than we don't and it was I'm shocked that it is that way because I thought oh he probably will be gone in a year or two years because and there are there's also not so much now but there was the stigma of dating a drag queen low. You know I at least what I always got from guys was why do you have to drag my. Oh I would. You're so handsome so sweet and I look I just can't get over the drag thing that's Tho. Those were the people I was meeting where it was like. Okay bye go leave so I didn't know if he was going to be fine with that if it was going to be something that he realizes. This is what I do. My job stays over here So it was. I was testing the waters. And when did you know that he was was he cool with it from the beginning. Oh Yeah Yeah. He was fine from from the beginning he was fine with it and it. I mean we moved along quickly but it wasn't super fast where people are going wait. What the HAT? When was the first time he saw you in drag? He apparently had been to a show at one of the bars they worked at in Riverside and I had done a song that he loved that he was like. Oh my gosh. I can't believe he's doing that song then. Whitson was it. It's it's called crave you by flight facility. That is so you I know I always like to do music. That makes people go What is that like it? What is it instead of it being like Bitch Britney Spears? Don't look like that right. It's it's so it's difficult but he We we spoke for quite a few months before he actually came to a show and we met and all of that so did he is he from Riverside neither did he moved to Riverside for you. Well he was living in Lake Elsinore which is pretty much just right outside of Riverside. Oh tick what five miles maybe fifteen. Okay I mean in comparison to sing you know he lives in West Hollywood or Hollywood. It's not that close. But he grew up he was born in Montclair. Grew up in Paris. California over in that I e I an empire so this whole thing of guys not wanting to date drag queens Is this something. Is this an ongoing discussion amongst all the Queen's at all times not so much now not anymore I feel ru Paul's drag race has helped show everyone that doesn't do drag the different facets of dragged different ways people do drag the different That there are are Trans Queens. There are bio Queens. There are every types of queens just so happens drag race features this type of a queen. Yeah and and we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA show you the way this this has done so a lot of guys now are seeing and going. Oh It's you know because you know the thing that I would always hear what I wanted to date a woman. I dated a woman. Yeah Wilco data woman. Yeah like fuck off but no that's the thing is that was the joke when someone would start doing drag. Oh get ready be single. I remember two guys two two guys in particular giving me that that whole. Oh Wow you're so one of them. I remember him telling US hot. And I just can't get over the fact to drag He does drag now. Okay you turn them into a Queen Queen. I turned the other cheek and walked away. I you you're gonNA come to me and say that and then years later we're going to be in drag and competing in the competition that I host and judge and that's zero across the board for you bid and that Queen is Bob the drag queen it was Bob. Yeah no actually is is the queen that you're talking you don't have to say any names but does she work around in the circuit here in La. No no does she performing clubs no on the sex lines. She was in con- She's I've seen her compete So she's not working she's competing and trying to get with. The everyone wants to do it now. Everyone wants a piece of the Pie. Go well I'm going to put Andre. I didn't get on the voice on there trying to do all this shit and now I want to be on TV. Yeah I'M GONNA put on some drag and I'm GonNa take an opportunity to to get on television. Yeah and you you can see through it. Yeah meanwhile I said the the sex lines does that even exist anymore probably not. I'm sure they probably somewhere in there. There is I think back pages gone But I'm I'm sure there are still there there. There will never ever be a lack back of sex workers in the world. Well okay but yeah but it's the whole phone sex thing that's That was that. I don't think that's anymore girl. You can literally go on one of ten different gay chat thing on your phone shirt and find someone. Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah. You don't need a talk on the phone. Who wants to talk on the phone text me? What's up hey how's it going? Let's get together job. Why after all these years do you still live in Riverside? I love it there. Why don't anymore? I now live in Fontana. I've moved closer her. I just I love that keeping your distance from the city from this but still being close enough to my family still being able to note that You know I'm living here. I can go work in Palm Springs. It's not that far. I can go work in La. It's not that far. Plus the airport there. The interior report is great in doubt. You fly out of Ontario Oh okay only time. I do Lax if it's international. Okay other than that I cannot. It's it's awful. It's a nightmare but I love it there. Yeah and you know within the next couple of years. I WANNA buy a house I it. The ball has started rolling. Started really contemplating. But it's is not gonNA be in Fontana. Yeah I'm going to be a little closer this way because the winds there are awful really. Oh my gosh. I thought one day the house was going to be lifted off of its foundation and thrown in two Oz somewhere. It was awful so Fontana is that off the ten the two ten. Wait a minute because the two ten I know it it curves around meet the ten over near Zuza and all that so. Oh you're on past that. Oh so you're in that little strip in that sort of gully where the were there used to be a river. That goes 'cause the freeway goes over this sort sort of. Oh I'm past that that's upland okay. That's where I want to be. I WANNA come that way. Yeah how long does it take you to drive into La late today an hour. Okay so our no. But that's my minimum drive to get into. La is an hour. Yeah that's a minimum. Depending on what time of day it could be anywhere from two to three. Oh God we're okay so now. This is December we will find out if AJ AJ queen comes back We will find out when a j yes in January so this next year twenty. Twenty coming up drag race. UK is probably the next thing we're doing right. Well maybe a couple things all right yes yes yes yes so. You've been talking to Natasha. There's that I've been keeping my schedule. Open yeah so drag race. UK Yes drag race all-stars this six drag race thirteen thirteen celebrity that we can talk about. They have so David David David asked yes. Yes celebrity drag rice only did a a four of them four of them so that's to sell it. Yeah and then it's Gonna I mean yeah so good. I saw them there so God can't way they are so good and really really heartfelt too because there's real transformation from people they really get to feel their the superman to their Clark Kent in the do people understand the the way this one. This one works. I don't think so. I don't think we have announced it yet. Yes we haven't announced how it works okay but They common they know what's coming. They're gonNA love it so we got all those things. Oh right and then. There's this other thing that I can't talk about yet That is a big thing. I don't know how we're going to do You know can save. We start writing. Augean the Queen Right one other big thing. 'cause I don't know about this out on my commit to you. It's movie don't say out loud. It's a book. He's writing writing a book where I know which one uh-huh yes all all of that out so I guess my question is So with all this other work. You're you're touring schedule is getting more and more limited. Guess how do you feel about that I mean. Do you have a strong desire to be on tour. I now Appreciate getting dragged when I get in Drago getting drag this on instead of being you know eight nights a week putting on drag doing doing you know show after show after show after show where he just start to feel like a robot and this has broken up the monotony of it being Gogo Home so when when you said Hey when we wrap here for season twelve I ain't doing shit the rest of the year I call my manager and I said okay. I've got a break and he said I'm on it and I've been bouncing all over the place. Yeah but I I love doing this. I love the excitement. It's of What guest judge is going to be there or where are we going to go? What location are we going to be at? I mean and now traveling to London yes Stay for a month and film and see and the it's still the same beast but there's something indifferent about yeah is there's something different about it. That's I can't put my finger on it but it's there's something different. I can't wait to go back and do it. I'm so excited to because we're going to be staying. We're doing it at this other place. I don't want to say people but The place that we're doing solar the jury is fabulous. The work ethic there is so incredible. Remember we would start. We didn't start until eight in the morning in the morning and we would be done by the time and the sun was still up. Yeah we would get so much done and they were and then have time for not only lunch but time. Yeah all those has being. There were a lot of beans and I realized. Now why in Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory for Ruka salt sings she says I want a feast. I WANNA beanfeast. Because they eat lots of beans there. Yes they do and I remember. I can't remember her name. She was the girl that always smelled very good. She looked like Rumer Rumer Willis name. I don't remember I can't remember but I just remember her. Oh issues where those those big pants. Yes and she would always gorgeous house and she always come and bring us our beans and she's like more beans but they were so good and I and I loved it but I you know I appreciate appreciate every day getting to go on south you and working with you and I honestly if you would've told me when I was fourteen years old and was told to take your your Viva Glam picture off the wall because it was too sexual about I would be here now doing this. I would say fuck off uh-huh uh-huh so I'm looking forward to I do. I haven't talked Natasha Dot. There's GonNa be some time in November. I hope I can get off but we'll have to. Were that when I get because you 'cause you have some something happening in November with my family Right so if possible because I you know but we'll see again. I'm dedicated. Yeah no it's it's. I'm sure we can work something out but I my guess is around. That time will be off because last year we were filming age in the Queen. At that time I back filming agent clean at this time time. We yeah that was many many months. My guess is that we will be in November. How long has your family vacation? It's going to be. I WANNA say nine days but it's going to be like Thanksgiving weekend is going to be in their. Oh okay because we were off last Thanksgiving what we yeah for like a week. Yeah Yeah and then two weeks Christmas lovely lovely Islamic well Raven. Thank you so much. Thank you for being on our podcast whereas Michelle. She still in London. I know that she was going to do you. She's going to Canada to guest on the Canadian version of drag race. I know she's going to do that but I don't know if she's done that or not. We taxed but that I don't notice schedules you. She's a huge star over in the UK. Now so she's been Courting different offers Manila different things. Oh yeah yeah are good for her. Yeah why the hell not. Why not she so talented so fabulous but we will have to say goodbye to hurry Right now thank you for joining us on the PODCAST and Let's say goodbye to Michelle wherever she is by. Can I get. You can't love yourself. Hand the handgun allow somebody else. Can I get a name. And and don't forget to subscribe on. I can't love yourself. How the Hell you're GonNa love somebody a man Dan?

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Visual Storytelling! With Lee Herbet

This Week in Photo

40:23 min | 2 years ago

Visual Storytelling! With Lee Herbet

"Hey, folks, in this interview, it's all about visual storytelling. Welcome back to another episode of this week and photo. I'm your host Frederick thin. Johnson today on the show a little something different. Normally, as you know, we talk about still photography and various tangents off of that topic, including gear and technique and all that, but very rarely do. I have a cinematographer on the show that can talk to some of the things that are facing cinematographers, and that sort of brand of image maker joining me today is Lee Herbert he is a visual storyteller. As I kind of said in the intro and lease is going to be sort of. We're going to we're going to shoot the breeze about some techniques that photographers and video for specifically can use to tell stories and what the process is. You know, what are what are some of the holes that people miss when they're trying to still tell stories whether it be corporate video, where there'd be wedding video, etc. Era. So this is going to be an exciting conversation. I think continuing the trend over the years we've been leaning on this. We can photo more and more towards it's all about the story in it's less about the gear, and you know, all the all the bells and whistles whistles. It's more about you know, like the cavemen had it the writings on the wall of the cave race a Lear. But welcome to the show, man. Welcome back. It's good to see you does. He thanks for having me on. Yeah. It's funny. Just something you said at the beginning that you know, it's going to be a little different. I am little and different. So perfect. Yeah. No. This is good. Yeah. We're all little different. It's okay. All different. But that's good. So let you know for the people that you've been on Twitter a couple of times several times actually for the people that may not be familiar with Lee Herbert give us the the quick elevator pitches. To who you are. So quick elevator pitch. I worked in the apple world for ten years as a final cut per trainer. And through that. I started doing a lot of video production. I really enjoyed the video production. So decided to start my own video production company five. Five years ago now, and so yeah, we focused mostly on corporate stuff. But I for my sons, I did do two years of writings and moving more into into documentary stuff for for TV and foam now, but still do a lot of corporate corporate work as well. Nice. Nice. And you clearly you clearly enjoy it because you're still doing it. Right. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I love it. I'm looking forward to the point where I get to the point where I can hire someone else do the Edmund side of things, and I can just turn up and be creative. We're not quite they get. But but but we're we're well on our way. Do you really want to be that guy though, you really going to be the, you know, you kinda like any liebowitz you just storm in at the you know, after everything is ready to go and press the shutter button. Yes, yes. I do. Yes. Yes. I I wanna pimple fedora and pink losses, and I wanna look weird. And just everyone goes. Ooh. Yeah. He just pushed the button the here the million dollars. So there you go. There you go kind of like a. We'd be Annie liebowitz kind of storm in and be the premadonna. Right. We'll let let's talk about the topic is your of today. And that's you know, the visual storytelling. I'm excited to talk about storytelling. Because I think as you know, you, and I've talked for, you know, it seems like that is one of the missing components in in photography in terms of, you know, there's there's this massive influx of people coming into the world of tiger Fiennes of the hobby in the art form in the business of tiger fi. But in their learning, you know, f stop shutter speeds ISO composition, I want mirror less versus full frame. I want drones I want, you know, steady Kambli all that kind of supporting actor stuff their learning and buying and doing all that stuff. But the storytelling seems to be, you know, not even secondary. It's almost like fourth on the list of things that people pay attention to where do you put it on your list like? Where where where is storytelling in because you're in that world, you have all those things I mentioned where do you put storytelling in the hierarchy of things that Lee Herbert pays attention to its its number one or two depending on the situation. And he is why it's actually particularly in the corporate world one of the tag lines for my company. I think it's she's slow now website is people don't act with businesses people connect with stories, and so one of the things that we talked to two companies about when they come to us asking to do corporate video is we signed that Michael. What's your story because you know, people aren't going to connect with a table. But if there's a cool story behind how you made that table why that title is good for people important for people. It's that story that people will connect with you. You talk about photography at one of my phone's, photography street photography. And I think the reason why love street photography so much is that it's a lot easier to tell a story in street photography. You know, you generally, you'll you'll have a person or subject to something they and they'll be multiple elements within the frame, and and you can either tell a story of people watching it can sort of imagine in their own stories. See I think story superintendent because that's people engage with it. If it's the you think about like, I did I did stand up comedy for fifteen years. I'm not funny anymore. And you know, one of the things we talked about is this sort of two different kinds of comedians comedians and just tell gags and his other comedians who tell stories like people like Billy Connolly. And he tells a story that happens to be funny, and and people engage with that a lot because they want to see how the story ends and happy gins, and you get involved with the characters, and yeah, I could go on about story forever. Because I think it's it's such an essence of human communication. Yeah. And I love that parallel with comedy that you drew because it. As I think back through it. Most of the good jokes that I I've heard our little stories. Right. Exactly. Or or in most of and I'll even say, you know, even most of the good comedy routine. Stand up comedy routines that I've seen their many stories and the better comics, and you tell them you're your professional. So the better comics, I've noticed they tie the jokes together. So that you know, they sort of plant a seed at the beginning of the routine, and then towards the end that seed has flowered and they returned to it. So then you're like, wow. Okay. That's brilliant. Yeah. That's cool to cold Beck. And those are always the I love cold Beck eggs, and they they really hard to do. But when they done. Well, they fantastic. Is there is there a way to do a callback type gag or a callback technique within video? You know, I know like in movies foreshadowing, and that sort of thing or like in this kind of video like like the microcosm of say corporate video wedding video can people do that. I think they can't be like, for example, is and the challenges that would be quite subtle. So if example awaiting video, let's say the bride is very excited about a particular a particular element of her dress. Let see she's exciting about. Something that they doing special with head. So you could take sort of tiny little detail photos and have that as part of sorry, videos, or photos, you can have that as part of the early images of the story that you're telling, but then you have the big reveal at factual events and and off the ceremony during the celebration, and then you sort of see okay? So so they were showing us these little elements because it's part of this whole elaborates presentational something that was happening at the wedding. I actually think weddings, appropriate easy to incorporate because corporate it's sort of dependent on the product the story that you're telling whether these enough of something David you can do something like that. Yeah. I think people becoming more and more sensitive to that, you know, especially with this whole net. Flicks binging sort of society that we're in now because you know, you sit here and we did it over the weekend. You've been several episodes of Netflix series each. One of those series is self contained and they have those call backs and foreshadowing and all that stuff within the Serey within the one episode. But then they they use it over the series as well. So like in the towards the end of the episode, they they call back to something that happened in EPA sewed one or two in the closed that loop like, oh, that's why they showed the oatmeal right Millette, if anyone likes sort of Mr. like murder mystery sort of things closing is now because I'm going to give you a spoiler for mysteries for the rest of your life. Basically, if you watching pretty much any of those one hour modem issues fishy roads, I'm showing my age, but anything like that if they introduce a random character that has a speaking role early on like, the janitor comes in and say something he did it because because like there's no reason for that random not that important character to get a speaking part in the episode. Yeah. Well that brings up a good point in. And this is this is a point that I had them. I've listed talk to you about. So you perfect segue. The in into days cinematography, your television, whatever, you know, movies, etc. Most of the plot lines, you know, seen formulaic. I know there's the whole hero's journey flows of you know, about the hero's journey. You could probably say, okay, he's in this part of the hero's journey. Oh, he's not he's going to resist the challenge. And then accept it. You know, so you you can see these patterns if you know that. But even if you don't know that you can look at some of these television series, and you can see like, okay that guy that's there together, but they're going to sleep together later, and then he's gonna end up getting jealous and at the end she's gonna kill him. And then the police are going to be you know, you can see what's what's going to happen within the first fifteen twenty minutes of hour and a half long movie. Why is that, you know, why it seems like I understand it feels lazy to me, you know. And this is this is me. A consumer speaking. Because it feels like there are a gazillion stories out there in the world for people to tell right, and it, and it feels like that that storytellers the professional storytellers fall back on on on these tropes over and over again with different clothes and different music and different. You know, is it is that just the way it is. Or is it just laziness, what do you think? Well, I think it's a combination things. I think I think number one I think because there's so much media today in where all bombarded with so much more meeting tonight. We're more aware of it, you know, two hundred years ago, they're only fifty books that came out every year. So that was kind of thing. Whereas now, you know, we're watching two hundred movies dice sort of thing. Also, follow the money. It's unfortunate a lot of times. It's TV executives of foam executives going. Well, that film went really, well, we want another version of that. But make it with dolphins. Right. So a lot of time. Times. I mean think you'd think I'm any reboots they've been in the lost five ten years. It does feel a little bit. Like, you know, the the people who are paying because at the end of the people are the ones that get to have the final scientists, what gets might and what doesn't. But I think it's it is a challenge for story toes because there are only so many stories to be told and because we're seeing so many more and more stories. Those little Gotcha is getting harder to do. Because a lot of them in Vidarbha. If anyone hasn't seen now forgotten the night, but the Bruce Willis movie where the success if you haven't seen it again dot listen for the next thing. You know, there's a big spoiler at the end. But now they've done that spoilers. So the next one that does something similar to that. You've got all this is going to be like the sixth sense. So sort of you with seeing so much that it's hard to surprise us anymore. The sixth sense ghost, you know, that that ilk of them. But I don't know. Maybe that's the challenge. Right. So the challenge is to is to do something out of the ordinary that people haven't seen before. And that's about to say that it hasn't been done because I've seen really. You wanna throw this at you? So Netflix again going back to the net. Flicks reference. Do you have Netflix Steve? Okay. So net looking at Netflix in the original productions and net flicks is producing versus what they produced, you know, a couple of years ago night and day. I mean these series are like I would pay I would like some of these I would have purchased on their own or even go. We were talking last night. I forget which one we were watching. But we're watching one that was it was it seemed so well done that we were like I would have gone to fear to see this, and Netflix seems to be questioning, and and it seems like they can think out of the box. They can get out of that you know, that that ditch of creativity Howard. How were they able to do it and other folks aren't able to do it? Well, I suppose to begin with they coming from it from the I think they look at themselves and wants to take company roll in a creative company. And so take companies piece, I think the good ones always realizing that they have to reinvent themselves. Because if you don't reinvent yourself. Someone else will reinvent what? Have you doing and then put you out of business? Yeah. So I think I think you know, Netflix is coming with that mentality. And whereas you look at other places, you know, you look like Disney, for example, they do amazing stuff, but Disney might think of themselves as we do the kid stuff. We do the family into time. We've don't do anything out of that spice ways net will like no, we do everything we wanna get selfish. We want to grab everyone. So if we're going to do some adult content, we're gonna do some kids content. We're gonna do some. I mean, the documentaries. I really want to get a context in yet fix because if anyone is watching Colmey, I've got some ideas lease due on their they need you. Well, you see it's and it's interesting because so I can't talk about in too much detail, but I'm working on a project at the moment that's going to be produced for television, all that kind of stuff. And one of the producers that I'm partnering up with he gave me really great insight. He said whenever you think of an idea. You know, if you wanna get married think about what TV network would have that on TV network is gonna fund it show in order for it to be made. So if you've got a great idea for political documentary will science channels got no interest in that. And you know, NBC might not be interested. But but PBS might want to make it. But then PBS mind don't have the budgets do and all that kind of stuff. Whereas it's funny. When when when I think of any time that I think of an idea for documentary that I think this is a really cool story to tell I think people would be interested in hearing the story, but I'm not sure who would pay to have it made. My full is always like you don't wanna put net flicks with do it because they seem to want to do every story. Yeah. Well, that's another good segue into bringing full circle. So taking the the storytelling idea in bringing it down to a salable sort of corporate videography or wedding thing. You know, part of the. As you've said part of the beginning of the process is creating a brief right creating a good brief and having that conversation with the client. So that you're both on the same page, and you know, what you're doing. And they know what you're doing tell me about that. Because a lot most we're talking. I I would argue. You know, if not the pick on the wedding photography genre. But the wedding, photographers. I'm going to pick on that the wedding photographer. You know, the brief is essentially the contract in the initial meeting. Like, okay. What do you want shot, and we make sure get aunt Sally? And uncle Joe. And all that. And you know, and this is my style, I'm gonna shoot like this. And this is the deliverables you're gonna get these within in number of weeks after the event, and you gotta pay me. All those details are handled in that contract slash brief. Is that enough is that should they be going further? You'll considering this conversation about storytelling should they be talking about? Okay. What kind of story? Do you wanna tell at your event or am? I just documenting it for prosperity. Yeah. So I it prosperity prosperity prosperity one of those. You said it would with a P. I was one of those. I don't know. I. It's it's difficult with weddings, because again, you sort of full fullback to at the end of the day. What the client wants is what you should give the clients sort of thing having said that we are the credit of inverted commas professionals. So it's up to us to sort of help guide the clients through that process so with weddings. I think it's actually a little bit easy because pretty much any person's getting married his seen awaiting video and probably has an idea of what they want and they've gone to. You know, your website with going through a couple of by the way, they've seen styles, and they like the stall stall. And so on. With corporate? It can be a little bit more challenging because. And this is something that sort of talk about is that. Very often. The client will come to me and go, oh, we need a video. And if you say them why they go because we want to put it on a website. Like can't be none. No, why like what do you actually want to achieve from this video is it to sell something is a to explain something to build your brand. Then you have to get into like, what is your actual brand? And you'd be amazed. How many companies if you say to them what is the? Why of what is that? You do. They wouldn't give you wouldn't have good onset right off the bat. So so often, you know, we have to be marketing professionals as well as just cinematographers video refusal. Whatever you wanna call us. You know, I was having conversation with someone the other day, and they gave me this Ray. So a little bit of background something that I've started doing in my lost two years. I went back into look I had a bit of a quiet patch for a while. We'll wick was coming. But it wasn't coming in at the price that I was a sort of expecting and a lot of my work is would have mouth and networking. So a lot of the work is the more work. I do the more work. I'd get because as I'm doing what work those clients are talking to other people and someone that's all we need a video. Yeah. Took to capturing zone. So I went back and looked at it sort of ten of the projects that I've worked on in the lost year and seen how my clients were using them and to my dismay a them really weren't doing much with the videos that we done for them. You know, we they Chuck it up on the channel that check up on Facebook Instagram. What have you that had, you know, couple of thousand hits or what have you? But but it really wasn't you know, and I looked at that. And you know, that's. That's actually. Yeah. I could turn around and say, well, the marketing departments three good, and they didn't do it. Right. They didn't use. But at the end of the day, if they're not coming back and getting me to do more work for them because they haven't seen value in the work that I've done for them with its the marketing departments volt or not I'm the one who's not getting more work. Yeah. So right. So it's so it's up to me to try to make sure that my clients get the best value out of what it is doing for them. So that when they see value, they'll come back and get more stuff done. So I she came up with this document that I think to all of my clients cold getting to know you and what it is. It's a list of questions that tries to get into understand the why of first of all the brand. But also what it is. We're trying to achieve with the video will multiple videos campaign that we doing for them. And it's fairly simple. Simplest not a lot of questions about ten questions actually was nine. But I'm just about to Edwin because this friend of mine ahead of meeting with a with a creative director lost week. And he's been in the industry ages. And he gave me this. Really great insight way. He said done. Awesome. Client who the customer is off the client who the customer isn't. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because if because if you say took if you sites client will make a video campaign, who's your demographic that you want to talk to they'll go eighteen to thirty five earning this much money blubber. But the probably give you a very wide scope of who it is. They wanna talk it. But if you cited them who isn't your demographic, they'll probably be able to give you much bitter onto the be like, well, you know, we make mobility scooters so people who can walk probably not out demographic. Yeah. You know, things like that. So so it's all about working with clients to try and help them help us to get the base brief possible. So that you can know exactly what it is. You wanna chief? Yeah. So so diving in a little deeper lead, and then, you know. I know if people wanna learn more about this stuff, you have a course out that we're going to talk about at the end. So that's why I'm purposely just skimming the surface like a, you know, a rock here. But one of one of the things you talk about in. The course is the idea of pulling story out of out of the footage that you shot then what we were talking a little bit about before. When we started was part of part of the the hard part of doing the stuff that you do is is that cutting room floor. Right. So being able to get rid of that footage that you work so hard to get as D card or the garter, whatever. And then saying up we gotta lose that shot in making those tough decisions. While also pulling the story out of what's left. How do you do that? Like, how how how do you make the call to say, you know, what that beautiful shot of the sunset gone. Not do that now. So incorporate it's actually easier because incorporate you can sort of again, if you've done if you've done your homework, and you've done your. Pretty well. At the beginning. You know, you will know very specifically what your client wants to talk about in the video, and what your client doesn't want to talk about in the video. So you know, if you've got if the clients have right where we just want to talk about on knickknacks. We don't wanna talk about do will. If you've got the most beautiful shot that's showing do does. Well, you can't use it because you need to talk about knickknacks. Yeah. I saw. So so in in a corporate sense, it's actually a little bit easier. If you've done that work with the client, which again, why prep is important in and that pre-production stuff is actually super important having said that. So then when it comes to the story, it's funny that you talk about that is sort of formula, and is definitely formula with these things. So in the course, that you were talking about the the example that we ended on that we work on his corporatist ammonia, and those have got a very definitive sort of format generally the full night, Germany goes with. Hi, I'm Dave. And I worked for me and we sell. Egypt's? We were having real trouble selling wages, and we couldn't sell a lot of widgets, then this other company insert client name. Yeah. Came along showed us how to sell widgets. And now we saw lots of widgets. If you want to sell widgets, you should talk to that company, insert, jingle and music and all that right? I could do that on my phone come on. So so you sort of as you're editing. You're thinking about that in the back of your mind, you sort of. Okay. Well, it's it's pot one is introduction. His an and you think about this. It doesn't have to be from a testimonial. But particularly in the corporate video world is generally his problem and his solution. Those those two parts those select the old you sort of have to do. And I mean, you you'll see this a lot in those really cheesy. So to commercials from back in the day, you know, for, you know, are you having trouble boiling eggs, his this. Great. Casting thing you could buy to boil an egg. And it'll boil boil an egg. I feel for the poor advertising companies that had to come up with those EDS because it was like you've made a product that helps people do something that they do really easily. All ready like how do we how do we try and make this easier? I look I look at those commercials. And I think somebody must be buying these because it's not cheap to run ads. Right. So something's paying paying for those beds. There's no accounting for lazy people. Right. I mean, there's a lot of people like, yeah. I could boil an egg. But you know, what you're right having to put her in the pot and boil the water now, I'm just putting in the microwave. Yeah. Exactly. I'm gonna use your the the whatever acme Eggett maker thing. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Well, okay. Let's let's talk a little bit about we talked a little bit about be roll. Right. So be role for folks that don't know. We'll let you define. I have you on the show what what is be role to the people like say, you're talking to still photographers. They haven't done any video. What's be roll? What is it was it term mean? So. Biro is it comes from the old days where you would have your video on separate tracks, and your arrow would be sort of like the interview of the video that you've done, and then you be role which being the one above would be additional footage. So these is what I describe it to clients as I say, we should be role. So that we can make the video move visually. Interesting. Because if it's just a video of you talking about whatever it is you're talking about v three minutes people are going to turn off because it's just the visual of you just talking on the screen. So we want to grab footage of what it is. You're talking about. So if you say, well, I love putting a glove on my head and spinning around in j going we well now, we need footage of you putting a glove on your head spinning around and going, and when you're talking about that in the video will hit the audio of you talking about, but we'll see the visual of you actually doing that action. Do you do you? Speaking of planning, do you shoot the bureau. So it sounds like you should be row after so you do the do the interview, and then you make notes, and then you go and capture. All the supporting footage is at the way the way it goes in a perfect world. Yes. But very often we don't live in a perfect world. So sometimes sometimes it doesn't work out that way. And that's why with Biro always say you can never have too much bureau. I draw the heaven and not need it being need not have it. So like, basically, if you think you think are some bureau of it you should. But in a in a perfect world when there's enough budget. I would have an assistant sitting by while we're doing the interview taking notes and everything that the person talks about well, first of all will have a list of shots that we need to get from the pre production of from the brief. So we'll have that. But then also while we doing if it's a corporate of involves in interview while we're doing the interview have an assistant if his budget, otherwise it's me trying to do fifteen things at once actually taking notes, and as soon as someone goes all your I love using my computer, we need a shot of them using the computer I love using the app. Okay. Cool. We need a shot of him using the app so on. Yeah. I always think about that. When when I'm watching YouTube review videos, you know, in these are those YouTube review videos are typically produced shop produced, you know, staffed by one person right on their MAC book, or whatever a laptop computer, they're using. And I always I always want you because my brain is a dissecting machine. I always wonder you. Say they're talking about, you know, the new iphone or smartphone or whatever do they record the whole bit first. And then listen to it, and like, you say take notes, and then go back and shoot be role of the different parts that they described or do they have the whole thing scripted out? And then they just you know, they do it. They do it linearly. Or is it a mixture of the two? What do you think? I the way I would. I mean, I I do online reviews and things like that. So I do it both. So I will script it. So that I know which shots I need to get my one to get. But then they very often I'll have to some pickups because you know, when you're talking to camera you'll have it scripted. But sometimes you'll say something off the cuff and the you'll be like, oh, hang on. He gets a bureau of it. But I would say if they not scripting if they just sort of doing off the cuff always do the be roll off to it's just to save time. It's more efficient because if you think about it, you might shoot twenty things of b roll, but aren't really talk about ten of them. In interview will now you didn't need to shoot. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Says it's so interesting. What are you just anecdotally? What are you using for post processing, I'm guessing final cut pro considering your apple background? Yes. Yes. I am one of the few font promotes try nose to lift in the world, actually. So are they dwindling species why is it Perot? So good. Well, fox. Yeah. It's one of those things where you know, they made it really easy to learn. So, you know. You know? It's it's a combination of things number one. You know before final Cup protein found a prestigious cost two thousand dollars. So if you bought an effort to thousand dollars, you didn't mind spending a thousand to two thousand dollars on training on how to use that application, whereas now, it's three hundred or four hundred dollars. You're not gonna spend a thousand to two thousand dollars to come in a workshop to learn how to use final cuts. So this is a challenge. They in terms of just making a living trying to purely training final cut and also since two thousand eleven windfall pretend came on YouTube has grown grown and grown. And there is so much material out the to get people started, I will say one of the challenges, and this is total totally my bias kind of going up pot of pot of my living is made from getting paid to train people. So that's the angle that I'm coming from. So totally get where I'm coming from. There is a lot of great content available on YouTube to learn how to do things, but keep in mind that it's either not very specific sometimes and also, and I've I've seen some toil. Sometimes people just don't know what the hell talkin about. Yeah. Disinformation. Right. Yeah. Which is why you would you would then go to someplace like ripple training, right which brings us full circle because you have a court. Course ripples training. And that's that's kind of what I wanted. Why I wanted to bring you on the show. I wanna talk about. That course, you got a course up there called visual storytelling for corporate video. So tell tell me about that course, and who it's four and what it's all about. So just a little bit of background. I've been falling ripple training for almost a decade now, and I've always sort of held him up as the gold standard of like if you want to learn how to final cut veil the place like I used to hate them because I've watched eight to toils I'm like I really wanted to do that to tour. But now they've done it. So debts. So so, yeah, I couldn't be happier. And proud to the fact that they they think that I'm good enough to be one of China's and have a call so may sought so that and way this course, came from was I was talking to Steve who's who's the one of the guys over there. And he said, we want to do more courses about not so much the how of editing we've got plenty of that. But we also look at the walleye we wanna look at the creative decisions and look at what goes into that. So with my background in doing a lot of corporate stuff. It seemed like a perfect fit. So I suggested were one I take you through how to end it a corporate video and not so much push this button push that, but and there's a little bit of that. But this is more about why do I pick this clip over that clip, and why do we use? And so to give you an overview, and I see as you scroll through the first the first sort of nine attain license is all about pre production. Because again, I believe that it's really really important to get. All your ducks in a row before you, even go out and shoot. But then the rest of the coast is taking through the process of rot. We've got Hoffa now with footage of interview. How do we cut that down to three minutes? Now that we've got that down to actually no sorry. It's twelve months we cut it down for often out of twelve we've got twelve minutes. How do we cut that down to three? And now that we've got that down to three. How do we get that now under two? So it's going through that whole. Okay. Look, we've got our story. What can we pull out of this to make it shorter? What can we get away with? Okay. We've got that shorter. Now, we really really need to refine this and get it down to the essence of okay, let's let's put everything out. That's absolutely don't necessarily, and they awesome hard decision. Because and this is the thing as an editor that you've gotta take you'll you know, you gotta take you out your shoot his head off and put you in editing head on and sort of go, you know, what I love this shot, and I love what what what my subjects is talking about. But it doesn't speak directly to what we have to achieve from this. Video. So I can cut this out, and I need to cut it out because I need to get this under two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. See that's for fifty bucks. It sounds like that's just sort of the the matrix style injection of how to do this this kind of video, you know, he's not going to give you there's no substitute for you know, just doing it rep it's over. But there is there is the idea of like you said, you could spend hours and hours and days and months on YouTube trying to sift through the the seawater just to get a couple of plankton out or you could just come here and get a steak dinner and get the whole thing at once kind of injected into your head, so cool, man. I know how meticulous meticulous. You are. You know? So, you know, I'm expecting a certain amount of let's say I was going to I was going to use a different a phrase, but we'll say attention to detail. Similar words that is pedantic. There you go there yesterday syllables for me. I'm not that smart. Yeah. It's I it. I mean, look this cost took us about three months to put together. I am pretty dawn proud of. And it was great working with Steve Steve is is just as pedantic as I am. And so it was great having sort of two three four six of is looking at this thing going, you know, we we haven't covered this probably we need to explain that we need to explain this. So it was it was really great collaboration with them. Also, the subject met, I think could be quite interesting to photographers what we did is we actually shot. I went out and shot an actual actual project that is up on the client side. Think-tank bags actually in cool. So I've I've done a lot of work with him in the past and looking over your shoulder. Like don't feed those after midnight, man. The big ones in the garage. And so so, yeah, you know, I had a relationship with them. And I sort of went to them and said, hey, you know, would you be interested in, you know, we've talked about doing some projects, would you mind? If while we work on this project. I used this for the cost. So we actually went through the whole process, and I got my my getting to know, you document from them, and yes, so it's it's something else. I'll add sort of off to the we go through also sort of what we Rolette choose them. Why I don't go. I don't go into huge amount of that. Because I don't think people want to watch me go through two hundred clips of footage and picking sort of ten out of os. Yeah. Yeah. I actually I tried that. And I watched I got through Hof recording. I was I'm bored now, so. And so we found a way I think to make it more engaging. But we also at the individ we look at things like adding music way. Do I find my music, and then also had some techniques of getting feedback from clients. So. There's a there's a private I'll plug him because because it's a great product the frame dot IO. And there there are websites for getting feedback from clients really cool like you can upload videos multiple versions and win clients. Give comments the comments get attached to the video clip at the time code wave. I put the comments in and and clients can draw around things, and you know, do mockup final cut to right? So you think inside the app. Yeah. Yeah. It's synchronizes synchronize with premier as wells if using premiered works with that as well. And it just makes things so much easier sort of going back and forth. And I go through another technique that if you're not gonna use something like that. Because obviously that does cost money if you don't want to use something like frame where you can do it yourself and ways to make that will speedy and more efficient, very cool. Well, awesome. Well, definitely folks should go. Check that out where it's unreal. So just go to ripple training. And how do they find it? Yep. So that they just ripple training dot com. Click on the tutorials backing at the top and go down to production. I think it's video production video production. And then it's right at the top. They so so if they just go here to Tourelles video production, and boom there it is. Right right there. Yep. Yep. So just click on that. And I'm back to this page. Very cool, man. We'll congratulations on that. Yeah. I can I can tell that. You're proud of it. It's yeah. It's a lot of that's I was scrolling for a while getting through the contents of that thing, you put some blood, sweat and tears into it. It was actually okay. I'll I'll never put this online. But so a little I am not a one take wonder. I'll just put this out when I like when I'm talking live like this. I'm fine. I'm cool. But when I have to talk to a specific topic, and I have to make sure that I call things by the same name every time I do struggle with that. And I have to try if you like the whole if that little behind the. I'll pull the curtain across listen one to nine I think it was. I was using a teleprompter that whole time. So all of that is done to a teleprompter, and f y ten using probably isn't that easy, particularly when you've written everything as you get like sort of two minutes into it. And it goes by the brains going. Oh, no. I know a better way to say that you say the bid away, and then you lose your placing like off. We we don't right like we speak. Yeah. It was so. But the base Lesch worst one was again, I was nose to the grindstone and really working hard on this. The twenty the first take the first twenty minutes hike of applying Biro, I recorded that whole thing and realized that I hadn't turned my wireless microphone on. Yeah. That's probably not good. So you're kicking yourself. That's like how like was that a whole day lost or how long well, it was twenty minutes because I'd recorded. Twenty minutes, and then it was huffing out because I was so mad at myself. That was like, you know, what I'm just going to go away. And I'm just going to sit down and I'm going to brief for time for lunch. Limited. If those maximum working, I would have picked up some woods trust me, my friend when I realized that we've all made mistakes like that. Normally my mistakes like that happen when I haven't eaten them just like, you know, why did I do that? Why did I not plug that? I don't understand yet. No. That's cool, man. Well, cool. So yeah, definitely folks head over to ripple training and check out. Lease course, of course. Amazing. And I haven't I haven't dived into the course. So I'm saying it's amazing based on knowing you. Yeah. So I know you create amazing work. So definitely if your video at all definitely check the course out, otherwise if people want to connect with you Lee Herbert, we're should they go. So my website the company makes is captured in case. So that's that's my website, and is a contactless day and on most social media's I'm just le- Hobart, so elderly H E R E T just the one are in her bit. Herbert not. Herbert her bed is correct. Got it got it. Yeah. You burn that into my head years ago because I kept going. Kept mispronouncing your name. Now. I got it. All right, man. Well, thanks a lot. I appreciate you coming on the show today. Don't. So it's always great to catch up with you. Okay. Take care. Bye.

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Mars Perseverance, with Jim Green, NASA Chief Scientist

StarTalk Radio

52:25 min | 6 months ago

Mars Perseverance, with Jim Green, NASA Chief Scientist

"It's easy to see how apartments dot com is the best site for renters because with virtual tours. It's easy to find a new space without leaving your place. Virtually view floor plans at a minute. He's with three detours and explore. Hd videos and photos including interiors neighborhood images and even drove them footage of exterior views. All from the comfort of your couch. It's that easy. Visit apartments dot com and get into a new rental today. Apartments dot com the most popular place to pan. The please welcome to start. Talk your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide star. Talk begin right now. This is startle tyson. Your personal astrophysicist. And we're here with an cosmic queries. Addition we love me. Some cosmic queries ain't right chuck. Yes sir. absolutely could you collect all the cosmic queries. And i don't know if you bring him to stump our guests or what you know you filter them or they just randomly plucked from the and they they. They are actually taken by a randomized. So i can't. I cannot take credit for pulling them which means that. Please don't send me your questions. Personally are so chuck. Today's cons macquarie's we're going to explore the perseverance rover. Yes nasa this month with this in february My ends in february and it was launched. You know nine months ago. Ten months ago. And so. But i don't have particular expert. I know but little something about mars but not specifically about perseverance. And i think you don't know about either right so i know about curiosity and not all and i'm not talking about a lander So we've got our friend at nasa nasa headquarters. Jim green jim. Welcome back to start hanky so much. Neil chuck always a pleasure. Always a pleasure to see you. And i was looking at. I was looking at your full bio and i forgotten. I mean i remember but i forgot that used to be head of planetary science for nasa. But now you're head of all astrophysics well jazz. A bad just the chief scientist so To cheat you're not just not just ask if she sees scientists right that flying all categories yes. That's that's that's bad. As i'm just saying that's that i mean it. It's really all about advising administrator on New science activities and in wonderful things that are going on in the agency and the fact that you came to it as a planetary guy. Means you have good sort of geology sense as well so and if you do planted bet you had some good astronomy. And they're so you've got enough of a diverse background to serve. The scientific portfolio of nasa. Is that a fair statement. I've got a undergraduate degree in astronomy In fact i just finished my first next five paper. Nice a involved in a lot of planetary. oh May need is fears and done some solar physics petrol neely physics and Of course one of my favorite planets is near earth s so this is a cosmic queries but before we get to questions. That people have Sent our way on perseverance. Just remind us. Why is this yet. Another rover to mars. I mean how. Many damn rovers. Are we going to send last time that you're going to pick up this time. Well of course with curiosity. We learned that mars was really of quite diverse than what it is today in its past. We explored the past morris. We found out that mars. Four billion years ago had an enormous amount of water in the conditions. Were such that it could have been habitable. We really didn't know that in now we're going to push the next step on that and that is to go to an area and look for ancient life and that's what percent is going to do so each rover mission stands on the shoulders of the previous mission in the questions that gets to ask absolutely. That's the way it works. And i and and you have to send a whole new vehicle to do that. Well it turns out. Of course the spirit and opportunity looked so much different than what curiosity does but at the end of a building we had many spare parts in so I think we had like two hundred million dollars worth of spare parts left over from curiosity a furniture. If you don't know how to build that you have spare parts where we jim no telling me you make a so a single object. A single thing called curiosity and you telling me their left over parts. This isn't some each camcorders bought from radio shack. This is the so. What do you mean you have leftover parts while we have duplicate part. Oh bowman. I'm to impeach the engineers autumn. I got it like this. what are we doing. This video guys said to any suggestions guys on this. I've started a one of our missions. No problem for every one of our missions. We wanna be able indeed to have spare parts around. Were extra cards such. There's a better weekend immediately. Bringing the new part and not worry about ordering surprise makes sense. So it's it's real critical real critical of thinking. It's a necessary redundancy. Indeed okay you got me okay. i'll let you slide on that one. But that's the last time i went you. And tell me you want you gone up there with a helicopter. So what's up with that. So what are the elements. One of the important elements of this mission is actually enabling the future and to do that. We're going to push the envelope in. Our understanding of getting around on. Mars and helicopter is really a unique idea to do that. You know so. This is what we call it. Technology demonstration. We're going to be able to hopefully dropped helicopter off the belly. Pan of the of the rover. Drive away let it unfurl and then order it to start flying and we'll do a variety of tests will go up and then come down and then we'll go up translate and then come down so translate means it will just go horizontally when you say. Translate this position. Okay so chuck you. Notice would look like if a cartoonist drew this if the martians would be watching this and the rover drops the helicopter out of belly and it thinks it was pregnant right and k. Earth guys. we're baby sitting all of a sudden. So my i'll i'll ask both of you then kind of helicopter. If i'm not mistaken. Mars has a different atmosphere than earth. So whitten we have to have a different helicopter indeed indeed so it's drum like in many ways you know. It has a small by but but it has very long of rowers in there about a meter about long arcane there's two of them and the counter rotate and than enables this small helicopter which is in a box like cube sat in It's about Tanner twelve centimeters by ten or twelve centimeters in a cube that enables this than to be lofted in fly of great fifty sixty seventy meters a before sets down again so but the real problem is the martian atmosphere is really thin so you have to compensate by having bigger rotors at. That's right in here. And the counter rotation helps the stability so that we don't neither rotor on the tail so it's a design feature. Okay now if you can imagine this working then. The next set of missions could indeed leverage this concept and lay down additional helicopters to them survey massive regions of close on the surface of mars. So it's a what we call a enabling technology demonstration for future missions. Beautiful beautiful cool all right. Well let's why don't we get to some. Qna here and one last thing is this is landing on mars. The same way Curiosity did it does. It does so it looks very rube goldberg. Immuno with a drug chewed and retro brockett. At and and who came up with that well. Jpl engineers are some really fantastic jet propulsion labs live engineers antastic people. That had a long experience in landing craft on mars. And the whole concept evolved. You know we. We started with. The pathfinder and pathfinders of platform for which the sojourner rover road on we landed that and and then the sojourner rover came off the platform and then we had spirit in. You didn't land that when you bounce that one if to you bounce it with some airbags yeh and we use that same concept for spirit in opportunity. Spirit opportunity in you know. They bounced of course and then when we deflated the bags. The rover sits upright our platform. And then drives. I just love how i love. How low tech. It was for something to do something high tech afterwards. I just i. I was gonna say yeah. There's something really genius about using a hop on hop to drag to to land a sophisticated piece of space machinery. That's incredible for spirit and opportunity. We believe in bounce. Perhaps as much as thirty times before it actually settled down on the surface where we could deflate the bags and now off the platform. So imagine this now. Now we're going to build a bigger rover okay. Spirit and opportunity. You're less than two hundred kilograms. Okay in now we're gonna do one metric ton are by two thousand thousand thousand kilograms. Nine times what spurred an opportunity were okay so the concept is well. We started out with a platform. Can we put it on a platform and figure out how to land the platform. The problem was the center of gravity was too high. So if it's on the platform it's gonna flip over so now we can't landed on. That don't want that. I can tell that right now. Okay so then. The next evolution in thinking is okay. Let's put the platform on top of the rover. All right and that gives a retro rockets all the way down to the surface and you landed then a problem is how do you get the platform off the rover. So then the unique idea is let's haver in lower the rover down to the surface while the platform is hovering at about twenty meters. So long at like with a joist or something right off the sky crane sky sky. Skytrain sky crank. And when you think about that's a process we do sheer on earth with helicopters every day. Dropping off cargo. Picking them up going through that process. So why couldn't we engineer that for a mars mission excellent excellent. So it's so it's brilliant. I mean engineers this. They live for this right. Know what has worked in one application and they modify it. Add to it. I love it. I love it so so check. What kind of question jeff. Hey let's jump into it We'll start with leslie. Murray by the way let me just say Jim people love nasa Like you guys you guys need to take a little bit more advantage of the public goodwill that you enjoy and get more money because he not only demand like international asa internationally as well true. Yeah yeah i mean. There's people are so excited here. It's great yeah. anyway let's le- murray insurance. Jim green john christian Leslie does not say up actually patriotic mushroom These are patriots on Caesar's patriotic folk. I and as we say We certainly enjoy anyone who supports us. Patriot because we certainly enjoy money. Thank you. I'm just being honest least truck. He's doing training for us. I listen. I'm sorry i don't know how to diplomatically. Say thank you for giving us money. It's very hard for me to figure out the problem. We'll debrief you after the show. Okay good all right. So what's that first question. All right this is leslie murray patriot. She says this Jim green very excited to ask you. If you could have added just one more interim instrument to the rover what would have. What would it have been. I love that question. I like mrs as this like every rover. I'm sure this one was on a weight loss. Plan well i have to tell you. of course. planetary agreed landed. Curiosity that work. Great in new began the concept of we needed need. Bring back samples. We need to go get the rock samples that tell the history of mars. We need to bring them back in in that. That was the thrust of what perseverance is going to do. And in how we were able to convince nasa an unanimous in congress to support this next move so the instrument. I wanted that i dearly would've loved to have on it. I actually got it on. And that is an audio instrument. We've never landed on mars and listened. You know to to the wind to what we can hear. And they have to microphones on on what. You said audio instrument. You meant microphone. Microphone yet. Because i gotta tell you jim. When you said audio instrument what a waste of money you send a radio to mars to put some couple. Who was listening listening. Now but no microphones. That's that's another dimension to our senses. It does or what we think of and feel about mars very good. Okay so oh my god. So when when this thing lands and you. Deploy these microphones your. We're going to be able to go to nasa a and and listen to what mars and has sounds like but even both even before we land we're going to turn on one of the microphones during the landing process. Oh my god so we will hear what's going on. Inside the capsule as it hits the top the atmosphere in the infused temperature variation. Just outside the heat. Shield is going on is. It's burning away. The material on the on the heat shield and then the sky crane all the way down to the surface so we turn it on right away. Okay now since. I've been zooming for eleven. Now i just wanna make sure. Do you have a mute button. That can be problematic. Well not that. I'm aware of we do have an on and off button by our hope. Is that everything will survive intact and we'll be able to use this engineering microphone as it moves and the reason why that's so important. What we found out with curiosity is as it went over some rough terrain. The rocks were literally breaking the aluminum. A wheels you know poking through them in so the engineering microphone is designed to hear the creaking cracking in the movie. And that's an element of the diagnostic of the environment. That were in that helps manage the rover and its assets to keep it going. This is that old story. You take a car into shop and they ask you well. What's wrong with it. And he said well. It's making this sound and it goes to the acoustic diagnostics. In this case will be able to play play back just before we go to break is the carbon dioxide atmosphere such that frequencies will come across differently in the sound. I'm really what shifted to an earth spectrum of audio so we'll actually know what's going on. We're just going to enjoy the higher or lower frequencies commensurate with the u. Lower you know so turn up your base in the atmosphere is heavier carbon. Co two is heavier than oxygen and nitrogen and of course is are we talked about. It's a much thinner atmosphere. So sounds that we would normally hear is high. Pitch will be very low. It will be base of level and of course we once we have that data we can change the range in enhancer but i think it would be absolutely fascinating to hear the sounds of mars based on the atmospheric composition and the pressure. Be more fascinate. If you turn the microphone on you heard ladies and gentleman. Thank you very and now. This is the martian version of barry white and then it's a frequency so low. You can't even hear the frequency right so we'll take a quick break. We're gonna come back with jim. Green chief scientists have nasa. We're talking about the perseverance. Rover did apartments dot com. Is the number one rental search website with the most listings of apartments condos and townhomes and the best tools to find a new space without even leaving your place. Apartments dot com has three d virtual tour so people can conveniently view floor plans and amenities offered in thousands of units apartments. 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Talk with neil degrasse tyson. Rebecca trek cosmic queries mars perseverance edition. I got chief scientist. James green jim. Just welcome back to star talk as always great to know you're there for us and has a huge social media presence. I think your biggest handle. There's just at nasa and had and followers on at nasa not only in in twitter but in especially instagram. Where you knocking it out of the park every time you put out some on the is congratulations to all of you for creating those images and the social media team for for navigating them in ways that the public embrace this ruined to me shows at the public is very inquisitive. I mean says it's an element of our nature to to really try to see uncovered new phenomena in new regions and take new views of the universe. We live in. That's a mention seek out new life and new civilizations counterpart to go go. Jim not only does nasa have their handles social media handles. But you have a podcast with the greatest name ever gravity. Assist very cool. What kind of guest you have on their all. Neil i have some of the fabulous working scientists. That are covering some of the secrets of the universe. Really won't end up in textbooks for many years and it's a truck. He's compiling the secrets of the element. About what i just ended my fourth season. And the podcast is gravity assists. Can't lose with that. Okay good good. Good luck with that. Good luck with that. So let's let's move on all right. This is nathan nathan que- natan we says Will there be any live footage capturing the perseverance is exciting landing maneuvers and if so how will be recorded. And how can we watch. Thank you and good luck nathan. It's kinda cool. Because how do you know how like i had a record that thing that you're in unless you have some something else recording it your camera out on a boom or something. So what are you doing that right. So what happens is a we'll begin to unfurl a variety of things so in one of the first things that will come up will be our major camera in this is as tall as a human is In fact if i stood next to a perseverance. I would i would. I would just be looking into the camera. Lenses that are on the mast. This gives us a wonderful opportunity to view the area as a human would. but okay. but that's after you've landed. That's after you've landed era slanted fours while all your plunging through the atmosphere we do. We have a whole series of jammers many different rotations. And so we'll see is we'll see me. This parachute deployed will see. That will also see the heat. Shield drop away in the ground below us. Come up rapidly and then we'll see That view of the ground as landed sky friend. Cool sweet well. That is cool. That i mean this is this is really going to be an exciting thing to one other thing. Of course mars is many many light minutes away so if we watch this what we think of as live is really delayed by how much well a light travels now. An enormous speed. But it's still gonna tank close to eight to ten minutes before we actually get the signal dancer. Mars is like one hundred million miles away when this has happened. Okay so it's a ways so the whole thing could just exploded and busted up on landing and then we will just sit there. Think everything is fine for another eight minutes indeed can have. We won't have any knowledge of that and so that's you know which bringing up as a perfect point. Everything has to work for the first time. A perfectly and we can't choice ticket. We can't make any mobs when it hits. The top of the atmosphere in is on. Its own very cool all right again. A shoutout to the engineers who made that work. Okay chuck more. It would go Neil chuck jim. My name is violeta. I'm twelve and a half years old. And i have a very twelve and a half. Make sure you go in their absolute and it's important right. I i am still using a half and quarter years What is your advice for. The next generation of nasa scientists in regards to space exploration. What should we study and dream of now. If we expect to one day be the first generation that travels to mars. This is a twelve and a half year old as low as really As really cool well it's really all about following your passion get involved in an element whether it's engineering or some aspect of the science and just immerse yourself in joy it in let it leads you to these different opportunities. But there's an opportunity to work in a company or industry or laboratory that are involved in building instruments or or in one of the nasa centers. In even getting involved in in building space vehicles or humans and just to be clear a nasa nasa collaborates with companies. Like lockheed martin boeing and other places to build spacecraft so nasa doesn't build all their own spacecraft and space correct. Right right right for perseverance. And of course. The engineer ni ingenuity helicopter rebuilt. Those nasa did bill both of those but it required instruments to be billed by many different groups in universities. Okay so what that means is what we think of as nastase budget goes not only to nasa but to innovative corporate companies engineering companies. That also do work in the service of nasa so they would get a paycheck. That's not signed by nasa signed by their own company but ultimately it came from all of us supporting that enterprise that again nearly. Yes you did okay. Beautiful beautiful. What you're saying. Jim is that it's one thing to say. Oh they're doing this now. Let me train. So i can do that when i'm their age. That's one thing another thing is. I'm so passionate about this thing. Whatever it is maybe it's my passion that will create an opportunity that doesn't even exist there today. Yes indeed is really the case clearly to dream big and then follow your passion all your dream and then maybe other people beat a path to the door of your passion and then you'll be the leader. The next leader of the science at nasa. That's right and have a bad ass business card. All right keep it comin' all right here we go. This is told these sonnenburg who says. Hey neil and jim how can nasa predict which rocks may hold signs of an ancient biochemistry if that biochemistry is completely alien to us. I've been yeah that there may be some assumptions made in that question but still yeah no cases the the excellent assumptions. Jim if you if we're looking for life as we know it. Are you going to miss life as we don't know as we don't wow indeed we don't want to just look for life as we know it we need to be open minded in that requires jedi the samples back y- ancient history of marris's in that rock record in we're going to a you know creative arts so accords like basically a cylinder that you extract from the object and then you have the full record of layering within it. That's right so somewhere in in this time. History life may have arisen on. Mars are so now you have to bring this back because we can't anyway interrogate the sample on the surface of mars. Where were you in. The night of july tenth can use the word interrogate in front of black people. Sorry not you're not your fault. I'm just saying oh god. Oh god interrogating your core sample. Go yes to do that. Analysis then wanna put the we that want to put the core in a sleeve and will lay it on the ground for later pickup by another mission. We actually planning now to pick up the sticks. Brilliant up the cores yeah brilliant. We're building and mars ascent vehicle to bring it back now. Now asus of the rock record is forever if we get it back on earth. We can interrogate it we can. We can create theories on. Hey we might see different types of life than we expected. The record is here to continue that discussion. And then eventually prove you theories your disprove them and tell us about what mars could've could've harbored life in its past so at the risk of stating the obvious the geologist can see back in time simply because the stratification of geologic forms and structures preserves that and that is their analog to what we do astrophysics whereas we look out in space. We look back in time because light takes time to reach us so the farther way we look we can see a thousand years into the past a million even a billion so i've always felt geologists. Were kindred souls ones looked looks down the other looks up in this exercise of decoding. The history of in the same analogy astrophysicists look at different frequencies of light. All right because it tells different things when we bring this rock record back. We're going to use different instruments to determine the mineralogy in other words. How materials put together. The composition of what those nodes are in the mineralogy. The state of the matter in terms of what we call isotopes in so now we can interrogate all those different dimensions. Because we have the rock record right here at home so it's a bit so geochemistry geochemistry gasol in. Yeah so neil. Do astrophysicist interrogate the light that they find from we there. When that's one day one day we will do an explainer video of all stuff. We extract from light and is a stupefying amount of immigration. Ever into things and light. We'll do that. Reminding us holding out on us x rays. We know what you did. Okay we know where you gotta watch out for. Yes you're right over your shoulder there all right. Give me another question. Be squeeze one in before we go to the break. This is rob carter. He says hello. I was wondering what protection. This rover has from the mars. Fine dust after the mars digger issues last month as somebody who's following along that's for sure Is there a way of stopping the dust from gathering on the solar panels. And if so. What's another major issue that the rover will to overcome and we will only learn about that after the commercial break. See what i did. Their job day tune we come back more cosmic queries on star talk all about perseverance on mars. Hey it's that time. Time to give the patriots shoutout to the following patron patrons yancey l. sanford tyrel carson and nina barton guys. Thank you so much for the gravity. Assist that allows this show to traverse the cosmos without you. We couldn't do it and for anyone listening. Who would like. They're very patriotic. Shoutout please go to patriotdepot dot com slash star. Talk radio and support us. Think we're back. Dr told house macquarie's perseverance. Speaking of perseverance. I had nothing to do with the show. But i gotta say it. This morning took my ninety two year. Old mom to get her cova vaccine. Oh yea up at harlem hospital so so there it is ninety two and she's ready. She's ready for more ready to rock and roll now. Moroccan ready to rock the roles. Like mia where we go. Now i see my. I'm i'm i'll get my shot yet okay. Mic category hasn't come up yet. Okay so chuck. You'll be some more questions for jim. Green chief scientist at nasa. Okay so when we ll allow women. S lot rob. Carter had asked about the protection of the mars rover from the very fine dust of mars citing the digger issues of last month We might. i don't know what that is. And then he says is there a way of stopping The solar panels from gathering dust as well. And what other issues have you foreseen that The rover will overcome so those are all of his questions. So indeed. Perseverance looks just my curiosity and it has its own power. as it's using radioisotope. How choosing to thirty eight in plutonium took their agents really hot you this against a thermal couple which creates a voltage difference which charges battery and then it's like having your iphone plugged into the wall all the time all your instruments were so this can be cody with dust. We don't care because we brought our own power supply and you work at night as well at rated. It doesn't matter if the sun is upper down. Okay but what's really exciting from the question I think your listener is interested in what's happening. Also with insight which has soared chins and the solar panels of course will accumulate dust but one really exciting thing that this insight name. The the name of the enter all mars is seeing is. The dust is being blocked off. And it's not from it's not from You know the twisters that has seen spurred an opportunity does but it's from the same phenomena just not visible so the atmosphere has these mortices that indeed low low the the dust away and we don't need a dust devil to do it. Okay but how. 'bout the how 'bout the machinery and the moving parts you know. You can't bring anything to the beach here on earth. 'cause san mike get in and that ruins everything ride a bicycle on the sand so that once the dust get inside the moving parts and isn't that bad. Well that's a good point but indeed the the rover is really sealed well and in the compartments That It has a lie. Curiosity would be meant to acquire material and then shut off so we don't see that as a probable keeping your your windows up in your car doors shut all right and you can operate well inside even during snowstorms remind me what insight was inside. Is the lander that landed on mars in november twenty eighteen and deployed a seismic system that allows us to hear mars quakes cool in its measured over five hundred of them since then mars quakes indeed in this is telling us a lot about the inside of mars and the fact that we now believe that mars at least partial part of the core is liquid. We didn't know that before. very nice. Chuck all right Let's go to mikey taylor from illinois. How do rovers Most sensitive instruments survive entry. And is there a chance that they could be damaged. I like that yeah. That's a really important question because we now know that we have to build to be rugged so understanding that right off. The bat is critical in developing the right capability to survive. What we call the vibrations in the loads that are her by moving quickly. So there's the launch sequence the shaking of the rocket in in moving it g And then there's the landing you know where we're going to go from the top of the atmosphere to the surface in seven minutes on. You're going through various loads so once you know that you have to design it and build it that way and then tested so so we have a bunch of shock. Absorbers for everything built into the structure of the system right otherwise the accelerations will be felt directly by the instruments. Themselves want absorb that away. Somehow i guess that's what the task of doing it you know. Yeah other methods are let it shake and you have to build it such that. It will withstand those vibrations in oh image stabilization. Kind of sign. I thought i hadn't forgive me. I thought about build the sucker so that it can shake and bake and then it doesn't matter then you don't have to waste as wait on building cushions for it. That's interesting i like that. Like dementia care. Cool all right. This is s t twenty. I see says will this take better quality photos. So are we talking iphone five or iphone. Twelve pro what. what are we looking at. What are we votto wise. Indeed looking at the beautiful mars photos in higher resolution were also having a high resolution cameras on the end of the arm so that we can get up really close to the rocks him with x ray look at the glow an image that in really understand a lot about the mineralogy in the composition before we decide to drill a hole in. Bring back that sample. Wow what is that that famous alpha proton x ray seller. It's similar This is called pencil. It's designed as zap. The rock with xrays. Let it for us but also image it also image that okay so is that an acronym for something pixel because. I'm going to tell you something. In the name department you guys are losing alva- protons s ray spectrometer all just loved macbeth instruments. Sounds like my tax dollars. Went to do something. You gotta you gotta hype it up. Jim you gotta hyper. You can't just be like so we got this great technology. It's called pixel hype it up. You know we make it. Sound like a dynamical weapon on batman alphabet sire bio attack would do something right so this astrom sits on the end of the arm and fires array gun at really high intensities glowing the rock seeding it up and leading it. Tell us what it. What's it it's made of. Give their man extra billion dollars just for their senate go photo. Phaser sped phase bazars graph. Like something that just make it sound like something. That would be on batman batman. It's not the reagan on stein. It's on kill on. Yes saying nice we. We're we're lightning round mode right now. So how many questions you can get through and jim urine soundbite mode. Okay okay here. We go joe. King samuel king wants to know this. Tell the truth. She 'em is this one of the first steps to tear forming mars Could be and the reason. Why is we're going to learn so much about the environment that will then take that knowledge to tear for mars foundational knowledge. I like that good sound soundbite to a plus on that sound bite chuck. Give me another. I say she. Oh seishiro says zero wants to know this. How do you guys pit the right place to land. We want to go to the best place where we can get samples. And that's why we're going to a delta. An ancient area were water and sediment is landed on the bottom and created rock adulthood like the mississippi delta guaranteed to have layers. Yup because it's been sediment did settlement nice and and implicit there is of course mars has celtics right. An interesting fact don't is enough for you to pick one on okay. Keep going chuck's why i love the marcham blues. Okay so Sell kook kilman. One says this what will happen to the other rovers. Will they just retire and leave it there as space trash. All rovers an all instruments that are working on mars. We want to keep them working cheap making new and exciting discoveries until they die and they will be there for us to explorer as humans when we land and fact you might need those two beam signals back to earth though away David matt damon. Mark watney watney. Yeah so you need those. Yeah you need those case you have to rewire them and syncing back to earth. Of course dot okay jockey going couple more time for a couple more. This is beer games. Who says how low will this rover be responsible for any preparation for humans to travel to mars. So i mean yeah user. Answer is yes. Because we have an experiment that brings in the atmosphere in creates oxygen. That we can breathe i. It's called the oxygenated on the movie the martian but we all moxie on perseverance. A little better avs going to say once again. You guys got to work on these terms man on way better. Exactly we turn on the oxygenated and we'll be back to get so what you do is you're breaking apart the carbon dioxide molecule. Right all right. This is chris cherry. If you want chris carey says what is for this mission your chief an primary goal and what is something. You secretly to discover We want to search the past from the rock record to see if mars could have supported life and my secret wishes that we find it like a fossil bone sticking out of the rock. I mean what what do you what do you. What so alfano under a wrong. We don't have insufficient getting fossils but the chemical composition is just right for which there's potential Cells or microbial indications that life could have survived on mars early on in its history. Okay all right. I'm going to take hosts privileges and s you one last question. We launched perseverance. Tomorrow's was june july twenty july july. And did anyone else launch at around that time because this is the months over which earth and mars are are nicely configured for just shoot them down if they probably have. We have the lasers. But they're going to be on mars every twenty six months. Neil you're right. Everything lines up where we can launch from earth in make it to mars as fast as possible but we are not the only nation going so the chinese have launched a mission to mars with an orbiter a lander in a rover all right and in addition to that united arab emirates is also launched a mission that will get into orbit in make atmospheric measurements in image the surface so the road demars is open. And it's busy. I love that and are we collaborating. Are we sharing information with these with everybody. Art scientists are love each other. So i mean is that is that happening or is it more like governments know. Indeed everyone knows about the other missions know they're gonna launch. We know how they're going to operate in a for for instance Perseverance is going to be dropped. Y onto the surface. You know we're not gonna get into orbit so it's like hitting a golf ball new york and having a the ball in a hole in la you know it's just one straight shot. The chinese have a different approach. There it will. I get in orbit. Spent some time there in the drop. Their capsule their rover down to the surface. At a later time everybody has different tactics. they're different tactics. Yeah cool okay. So this is great. And it's a reminder that science really at the end of the day knows no national boundaries because it is the one true unifying language not only of us all but between us and what might be aliens that we greet one day because they will surely be using the same science. We are to get around the house and around the back yard. And that's great as long as america wins. Sent american murphy. All right got to end it there. Jim green great to have you back on star. Talk anytime. Neil excellent thanks. Jim chuck tweeting at chuck. Nice comic keep that going very yes yes. I am newly grass tyson your personal astrophysicist as always beating looking at.

nasa chuck Jim green Jim green jim Neil chuck jim neil degrasse tyson Jim murray insurance leslie murray annie liebowitz Chris voss joel cherinko
MBW 683: Sick Burn at Budokan

MacBreak Weekly

1:57:14 hr | 1 year ago

MBW 683: Sick Burn at Budokan

"Sees of course we're GONNA talk a little bit about the new Pixel Phone Google announced it this morning and he's got his hands on it we'll talk about that a catalina has problems you've heard it's time for Mac break weekly Rene Andy Lori they're all here we'll talk about the tencent fewer and how to stop sending your information over sick burn at Buddha can back break weekly is brought to you by rocket mortgage from quicken loans they make the home buying process work for you accounting software in the cloud for self employed professionals and their teams run your business easier and more efficiently with fresh books try it free for thirty days at award-winning Client Service and support will help you every step of the way get started online today at rocket mortgage dot com slash back break and buy fresh books the number issue from people you trust this is tweet order and the best part of it is that most people will see it and not go okay they won't even think about it yeah this is Mac break weekly episodes six hundred eighty-three recorded Tuesday October Fifteenth Twenty Nineteen Ritchie is here from I'm more and vector the wonderful video podcasts at I'm more dot com slash factor and you're looking you look marvelous books dot com slash Mak break and by Epson ecotank critters kiss expensive cartridges goodbye at an Epson eco-tank printer to your Geico tank Leah it's time for Mac break weekly the show we cover the latest news from apple of course all the news this week is from Google but that's okay that's okay the home or office eco-tank comes the ridiculous amount of anxious Phil and chill checkout eco-tank printers at best buy staples or at Epson dot com slash he's got pixel four in his hot little hands or October yeah look I'm looking at it and it's unlocking automatically conversely that may be the best t shirt I've ever seen so funny yeah God so good I love it anymore so it's not my pick this week otherwise I would definitely be telling asser probably walked over there and gave them what's for that is the best Taco bell called take bell title Goose Shirt where did you get it it was T- spring but they're not available him squeezing I'm so effecting if you're an apple fan boy that resents any mention of android or Google it also means that you can start real quick yeah we'll appreciate yeah they are it's the angry goose version very popular but these are not as good honestly these are not as good as as yours wow I love that thing holding your laptop what is the Arc arc is called the book it's beautiful laptop stuff is the twelfth so there are I'm looking at a t spring there are quite a few goose shirts because that untitled goose game is you did you get like some sort of cinema camera now or are you doing I f this weird distortion happening through skype but I'm GonNa Lean into it Leo getting happy the show for you but we'll get there's apple stuff don't worry you'll take care of that she's of course remind Morris well managing editor Hi Lori How's it going great good to have you in that since Iowa's twelve apple has changed the privacy agreement and safari to say in safe browsing Urine if I gave you if I traded this to you for that shirt that I would have the shirt and I would have the phone again in a couple of weeks after paid for well actually okay so jealous I'm sorry I that's why again I wouldn't have even brought it up except for that you can't buy one so I have to show what I mean you did a great job Rene Ritchie so you get coverage on this we talked about it Sunday on this week in tech it had come out that day in talking about this game if you don't know about it you're not hip with the kids it's the untitled goose game from epic and Google news because the they cut the events so short I don't know what happened well because any NOCCO was there in fact I was there be mazing I WANNA do the ten cent thing and then we will talk a little bit about the Google event this is an important story and you on well they don't say anonymous but you're it is anonymous it turns up at your browsing information and some information about you may be sent to Google safe browsing and and then once it gets the actual website is say yes that's fraudulent and during that process Google and apple both say your information is anonymous but yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah it's pretty great I actually I'm testing out a standing desk that's why that's behind me instead of not being like it like it hash of the website that you're going to have Google sees that as a fraudulent or malicious website it'll go back to apple say what's the actual website is most of the world but Google effectively doesn't exist in China and that's a whole other story to get into so what apple is doing to provide the same militias website fraudulent website detection in China and without any warning or telling anybody they added this ten cent piece that doesn't say anything except that it'll be sent to might be sent to Google and is partnering with ten cent they maintain a very similar list to what Google maintains only they do it for websites that are located in China in a perfect world apple would have their own list or ten cent safe browsing for a long time it'd been getting set google safe browsing what would google API does is somewhat anonymous as you apple just sends Google and ten cent ten cent of course is a Chinese company mainland China Company that owns riot games they're the ones who have shut down any mention of Hong Kong technology in that they give hashed prefixes to the sites that you're going to which creates a pool of sites it's not totally anonymous it's not it's not specific though out of this vast pool of websites this user is going to one of them and if it gets a response from that then it provides the website address so that it can check precisely for which website is now does get information and it does get that prefix upfront it only gets the actual website if it's a fraudulent or militias website you could opt out of it by turning off fradulent website protection a militias website protection that does mean that you will encounter potentially militias website although have you ever I've never yeah but you went and asked apple about this and I'm glad you did because they clarified they should have by the way still bad on apple they should've told everybody what they were up to and what it meant massive amounts lease percentages of US companies at the ones pressuring ten centers pressuring Blizzard and other people to say we had you had to go ask him what did they tell you so it's long story short hard in this situation but Google works for apple making the requests on behalf of Siri and with a log in with apple they create artificial real anonymous relays so there's probably a lot of room in this system to make it even more anonymous if it is or other texts site that for some reason had been flagged erroneously by interesting yeah I think well I'M GONNA turn it off now they were very a little better than its title Pixel but yeah but the difference is that like you can go out and buy one of these you can't go out and buy Google Matthew Green the cryptographer from Johns Hopkins said you know it's what we call k anonymity it is perhaps not a perfect system man making me tell it's and he's making me jealous well I'm not sure I'm from more jobs and ear you I think I'm more jealous of you you know for example some groups are targeted by militias websites to get malware put on their computers by various nations by various groups so if it's something that you think is likely to happen pure ip address it doesn't say ten cent only if you're in China I imagine apple make that change at some point but at the same time even Google Mason information send information calculated from the website address to Google safe browsing and ten cent safe browsing to check if the website is fraudulent these safe browsing providers may also then that comes back and Safari Park says all that up until that point all of that is on device it's only if it's actually a fraudulent website that transmission occurs stand it and then everything like justifiably everything looks scary yeah well you call it fun I don't think it's fun I think it's justifiably concerning if apple doesn't yeah I've never been we had this warning ever I've had it I've had it many times okay but it was usually bonus I thought it was either like one of our sites and I don't know if it really is that important for your safety so obviously will not practicing because for example with Syria they don't see who's making their class they see something that apple wants to provide and you believe that you're going to encounter those sorts of websites and every person has to threat model as for themselves if their engagement activity with their beliefs go have a list but they don't so they outsource that to Google outside everywhere outside of China and ten cent inside mainland China and my understanding is they use a very similar Kayan anonymity it's not perfect but it's better better than just sending everything over it leave it up to you whether I don't think it's win to the settings you go to safari you'll have to scroll down a bit it's kind of down towards the bottom it's in the it's in the it's in the security and privacy and security he does all this processing on device but then in order to check the list it sends it from your device and because it's being sent from your device they got the IP address. Ironically I knew they would respond as soon as this became public but I wish they had said so upfront and I don't understand why they didn't or explained the process because people don't see the process it's not transparent they can't under settings fraudulent website warning if you tap this is the thing that got people's a concern if you tap the the privacy settings it says safari he's got a new threat model yeah this is you go into settings this is by the way on on all safaris desktop right if you if you go only manage that information get translated yeah I don't know why Google needs your Ip address it doesn't that is needed it's that it creates so safari all of that stuff because I don't want everything I do sit back to anybody I don't think anybody needs that information so I leave that up to you I know what I'm doing in fact said on Sunday before Apple Statement I said this is going to be telling to see what apple does about this apple says about it I would you know the three still I guess I win today so let's all get it out of our system Hawk okay Don uh-huh living dangerously I guess all right I'm sure there's other apple stuff to talk about and I'm sure turn time Google announced its all its new made by Google Twenty nineteen stuff some stuff won't be available to next year particularly those google the new Google ear odds but they look a lot more like air pods now and they don't have a wire joining them together and they're kind of like airports somebody that Chat Room Eric Duckman says it's been there since Iowa's twelve and we just noticed that just shows you how much they read these things because of the China thing people started looking kind of a waste are we will get to the other apple stuff but I guess we really ought to I haven't had a chance yet to talk to anybody about the Google event this morning at seven o'clock ten a m e I phone eleven it really looks a lot like an iphone eleven that camera bump the square camera bump has face ID no longer no fingerprint reader the same people who are vomiting over the over the the iphone notch vomiting over the the forehead are also saying they're vomiting over the maybe you don't want to send your ip address to Google because I mean that's for every site not the fraudulent sites right it's I mean it's only if it's if it's only if the pre down and say what was actually happening I don't use safari I use fire Fox turn off all tracking I turn off all of the Google and facebook and twitter bugs I don't think it's fight at all I think certain certain reporting was very funny on it initially like it was people panicked in light of all the other stuff going on and sort of lumped into it together rather than breaking Areso awareness and then everything starts to be checked so it apparently is similar it's the same. API Google uses for its safe browsing ten cents nothing so you know again the idea that you don't have to have this thing as simply a bluetooth ear phones that do things through your phone as just keep one of them tucked into your ear because you know you're going to be doing things snail on Hong read it and they own a lot like a lot of percentages of a lot of big movies they used to be game company now they're really just an investment company at a mainland China the next year the really cool thing about it is that they're saying that it doesn't it you can use it a up to three rooms away from your phone and so the idea of just walking around your house who stuff that's intriguing yeah we should talk about the phone because bone the verge said it's it's the hipster ear so that they're not even like the like the like bose ear buds where they're they're in obtrusive but you can see this like sort of Bulgy Audi hemispheres sticking out noise from the outside and also enhance base but they're the the really cool thing about it is that and remembered why we're not seeing this until until next year and having access to a verbal assistant in getting information and and triggering things just by walking around that's pretty darn cool let's see how it works but that's on the back here but again I remained vomit free at the a whole bunch either cool says the first phone to have radar this is the here's for like these radars that's got an addition to the cameras and the projectors that they need for for face unlocking it's it's not I mean as if you if you if I weren't looking closely I think you had an iphone eleven there is no notch though there is no notch that gets people calling the forehead but because it has so many sense book they've got shrunk down now so it actually fix fits in that forehead how is radar different from what apple's doing what it does loophole your hand over to the silent something they have like the alarm APP as soon as you've reached for it says that your hand is going for the phone and then it will the they really are tiny they don't have and they don't have anything sticking out from like slowly pop sticks sticking out from under it they they really snug in the it's GonNa be Siri connect case looks like airports birds look the buds look a little different they go in your ear they have a little plastic Microsoft different but little they're not as big as yeah the office are all over the house and you still have access to the sort of tools that let you do things without having to find your phone pick it up unlock it and all to create really a three d map of things that are around you without having to do it with cameras so it's a lot lower lower power privacy slept better because it's not taking any pictures and granularity of what it can do is pretty impressive the only thing that they have rolling out the door for the initial pixel floor are simple things like if you reach for it as soon as you reach for its senses Oh there's a hand above it I bet the users about to pick it up so then it starts turning on the sensors for the face unlock so that the Ford backward through tracks when you're listening to music with it but they also showed off delete Andy tickle me Piquiachu that's I know what they showed there's they did mention the specific features are putting in at launch but also saying that of course we're GONNA be building upon this in the future so hopefully that will pay out because this could this is here it only sends it to send sent if you're in mainland China if your region and coach set however honestly I don't even like the idea of it being sent really does almost seem like you're wearing earplugs more than anything else and it does have an because has silicon like shroud around the insert as opposed to shut out a little bit of the the like the face unlock it won't it doesn't it's not always scanning to see if your faces there however if it senses if you've got this lying it's locked in it's on the table won't turn off the alarm but it'll make quieter because it knows that okay a human is trying to interact with it right now and then you could you could use your hand to sort of stop it you can even go a- and by the time you've actually lifted up now it's actually unlocked the phone stuff like that so it's it's interesting to see how let's tune back in a year from now to see how well their support volume just by going like this like you're you're twisting a knob with your fingertips and it could even do things like again according to research papers based on Sola Technology Google announced a couple years ago that in fact Google showed this on stage that the original sensor was you know the size of a paper bag there's a lot they could do with it they're clearly and when they first formally announced it early this year as part of the the pixel four suite of feature the sensor itself is really good discriminating individual touch you'll remember the when they first showed this off a couple of years ago they're talking about doing things like controls where how about you change the that which I guess screen and then you're kind of going like this waving back and forth Rene immediately totally burying the leader simple gesture wants simple action and then maybe later on we'll figure out how to make things a little bit more complex because it is I mean already you have to sort of get used to the idea of earning it and how well it actually integrates everything else I got the impression that they are starting simply with gesture but that there is a lot more that the that I've read before things like well what if you just if I'm at a diner and just listening to music take one salt shakers and put it in front of the phone and now the the that Salt Shaker is now Mike my Tuning knob or my volume knob just because it can recognize that oh there's there's something that's spinning three dimensions with appropriate like hand gestures really really interesting innovation in controlling the phone just just I mean just how like we have the weights integrate into different features like hi can interact with this phone without actually touching off to do was you know you're getting sleepy sleepy and just moving your hands in front of it I mean it's it's and will respond is that a game then it's a it's a it's a it's a game I I didn't play play it but it's it's an interactive game a quick faster than apple's what's your experience Andy I would say it's faster than apple's because it's the only thing that the thing I would compare to is is like when you've got your Apple Watch set to unlock your unlock your macbook like by the time you're about to key in your your your your password it's already unlocked it's almost disappointing when you find out that will what if I can I just like scroll through a web browser page by doing that well no ads like oh well why do I bother even trying because they think they could do with a daredevil right like radar sense I absolutely think that it's it's kind of I kind of feel like it's like when apple it's it seems right now to be very very fast very very reliable so far the face mapping is not quite as cool as the way that apple it had something similar several generations ago and you know it didn't they still do it twenty twenty one has it the way you train it to to teach your face but it's working very well so far again with the caveat I've had less than an hour and aw you don't want to become like three D. touch where it's really nifty but because it's not universal and it's not obviously something you after press people are just going to forget to try to use I did I did tickle a Pika Ju in the in the demo area so it's less you think that Oh there's this will introduce the first Macintosh and they decided specifically to go with a one button mouse because we don't want overload people's imagination people are using this for the first time let's just give them one because it's so quick and because it can do it before you even pick it up maybe this was never locked and so that's why they give you the choice because some people actually made uncomfortable by that basically you would feel so much faster yeah I mean the the the issue is actually deeter a bone addresses this in his report to some people feel like yeah I mean I imagine imagine if they had a future version of the the Pixel Buds that also had a sensor so you could just again do forty three minutes worth of experience with it but I I'm picking it up I'm noticing that it's unlocking itself it's not just simply it's not just simply oh as just didn't re lock it's obvious forty we figure out that I've done I've done too much work it's actually already done it for me again you're talking to a person who in terms of having the setup has had exactly like could be able to appreciate but this idea of not just face on lock but also the the solely admitted it makes me feel as though a year from now this could be an a super super intriguing it's actually doing the scan it does the has a little user interface sort of thing where it actually put a little halo around the edge it's kind of hard to c depending on how you use it problem that we actually have from something as even something as prosaic as it's winter it is eighteen degrees outside with a wind chill of Oh my God I don't WanNa have to pull my in other ways but on devices without displays it could be a primary control mechanism if you don't want to use voice walk up to my home speaker twist my hand and suddenly the volume is changing different sites are here and here to sense that something is blocking one than the other no you can also like in this in this game you have you have the pokemon you could actually like scratch it like this phone yeah what do you think it will also be way better on head lake so for me is that it'll be okay on the pixel like I think just because they're going to have to maintain compatibility it will always be a little bit redundant like you'll be able to even though it's not easy to learn because for them it solves such a important problem make something so quick and so accessible and I'm really again I'm really excited by the idea of Oh you gotta you gotTa try it and see I will say it's definitely not a gimmick they haven't Samsung this feature they really put a lot of work into it and again solely the idea of having this this three d sensing of motion two fingers and hands because this could be as significant as multi touch it could be a significant as the mouse because it's just a way it solves would like really really cheap and I have great didn't operate to the to the three because I was waiting for something that was a lot more significant than oh look it's got a better camera or look it's a little bit faster in ways that I'm probably not get that before the first really big cold snap in like Chicago or Wisconsin or Minnesota because that will sell pickle save your savior line for both the Pixel for in the Pixel xl is sixty four gigs which is a little surprising Six of Ram but the camera is really the reason that Dr Sony this radar array built into it it's really interesting I I haven't I haven't I bought a pixel one back when the Pixel two is coming out in the back and get one this year and some people could care less about the lock screen and makes it feel slow to them because my phone's locked but I have to do this whole gesture not create into it I would just give them the same setting the the when you're able to walk around the House and actually get things done when you don't need your phone but occasionally need access to information you put on your phone or you WanNa remember there's no flaws whatsoever detectable by anybody so rapidly losing their credibility in my opinion it's it's bad the things that those gestures they will come in handy the everybody has that that's that also shift all option shift whatever commands saying of their favorite APP that they know worst it was like trying to use four powers the what about the face recognition because reviewers have already said it's surprising I think people would buy a pixel phone although they did say in any you can confirm disagree with they said display mates already looked at the split the q tip gesture to change and other than other things like this to say please go for those are going to be gimmicky hoover members those things are hard to remember here's all right they're gonNA save the most important part which is the camera part for after the break I do want to mention there also copying iphone pricing That Dan gave name plus said it's perfect pretty much the same score they gave the iphone eleven is that they had a slide the got a great of a plus actual like day to day experience with this but you can turn off the lock screen apple whether you want it or not it's going to stop you with the lock screen so you got to do that extra swipe they want to see green notification they wanna see those just because they don't want to do their phone they just want to see it quickly if they need to or not so I I you know I think I'll be like you I'll turn off the Walker but maybe not love off in order to read a book when they if they if if they're smart the first thing they're gonNA diverse new feature that can add is scrolling just with the with the air and they're oh my God this is like a whole new phone my life begins anew because of this wonderful sperling right it's very nice it's NFL and it's also really Nice Naby display so yeah nice that's all yeah it's weird I haven't I haven't downloaded enough like tex growing APPs I don't and again I'm a daily Pixel one user I don't notice it being necessary early any snappier than what I or more fluid than what I'm used to before so and but they're they're using the same technique that apple uses with its variable variable frame rate phil during the keynote presentation so they whatever Ginger Eric come up with something that will demo Democrat nicely that people from last year that was any time that I see superlative and a presentation like this I put a big like Italics underline benchmark around it because it's hard to say oh it's per elting and helping you fine tune these devices for release and then gives you these weird non numeric like these new weird non scales for it feels like I could get an a heard I o. s. thirteen to there are updates we'll tell you what to expect it's all coming up next oil look at Apple TV plus amac great weekly is the the the loaded top of the line Pixel for xl is a thousand bucks that's one hundred twenty eight gigs they don't have anything bigger than a hundred twenty eight as a storage the baseline ninety hertz refresh rate because that is unique the only other phone that does that right now no iphone does it is the one they got nine hundred for the note did that would be really weird how which is to say we're not we don't want to cook overcook the when it's when it's not needed maybe they're saving it for times when you really are just blasting through long long list again likes Schillt's now yeah I don't like I don't like it when any manufacturer pays attention to them not that I have anything against them but when you have a company that offers it's nice it's got details color a if you want if you want to say it's an a plus display okay okay I don't I don't tend to look at histogram so I tend to look at the actual screen itself so it's it's a fine display it is a it is not the latest snapdragon it's eight fifty five so they're not even using the fastest qualcomm part at this point they did a bunch of Ramat so that's nice it's six it's the big improvement they don't they don't do the same kind of optimism amy if I just played the game right on my face got the phone your hands it's objectively a nice screen it's it's it's you notice the that is what I really actually see the performance hidden performance Spanish main thing is the camera I know you've only had it for an hour but I have a feeling you've taken some pictures we're GonNa talk about that in just a second I have to say every day even even if I'm saying something enthusiastic about this phone less than an hour's worth of random and so so yes so I have but I didn't have that that a meeting any NOCCO has the Pixel for we're talking about that Rene Ritchie watched the event but was disappointed because they didn't go into enough detail although the only our that's okay with me I was happy to have Braille but he finished it by saying we wish we had time to show you more like game of thrones season eight it's like we offered you it for performance reasons to yeah I don't know if Syria does on device stuff yet it does the dictation part is on a bare minimum of stuff that it does on device TA MD stepping up now to compete with until I'm glad to see Microsoft in the game again even making phones next year all of this competition much more on device the assistance going to do more on device stuff google had talked about this little at Google out that they were able to get their giant machine learning gets squeezed down small that they actually put it on the phone so that for instance assistant will often be able to answer your questions set timers I love Google's let's experiment and let's share our experiments with everybody I love the way they do that thrilled there's competition nays delete last week stuff that's all that's all really good and again that's clear performance benefits though they're all doing it means we get better product so I'm absolutely thrilled the also I see that Google is really trying to hit on privacy a little bit better that's just them getting ready for the next time when they put an even better writer on it they're using they're putting the radar in all of our hands so that we can experiment with it and then they I do some of the things you want to do without leaving without going up to the cloud same thing for face id your face is stored on the device. I think this is do things it's really inclusive in I love how they're experimenting with new things all the time so you know the fact that they put a radar a phone right now that maybe doesn't do a lot to me privacy methods that they're kind of starting with there was not enough information about that I want to know more about with what they meant it does seem like they're following an apples footsteps trying to do Dan where competition is great apple is sticking it to Google privacy and goggles responding they're doing what Amazon did with the echo you can say delete delete delete we know what good use cases that can be for in the future so I I'm all aboard on this stuff it's I think it's fun I think it's great I think you know Google and apple do things different lot of the machine learning stuff it does on device to before it all ends up on the cloud anyway but it does a lot of parsing on device I feel like the they showed how the the voice recorder to do a little more google stuff there's more able to talk about no I you know I may have not mentioned this on Matt Greg quickly but I I love Google's everything that the the way they though the older guy with gray hair I thought he was really interesting. It was wonderful to see Annie Liebowitz onstage talking about photography and even though they didn't show enough of her pictures to understand what we were talking about they moved on to something else so I felt the same way as like there's there's too much stuff crammed into too short period of time and things that they should have lingered on more like the they mentioned it a couple times and they're very very short fast precipitation today I felt the same way it happens so fast that by the time I was like started they they looked pretty good and you got to stare at them we got cut away a lot they're they're they're gorgeous but I think that they kind of undermined their own argument if they're trying to say for word and the fact that was all being done on device was pretty darn slick says this would you say that that Google just sherlock every software company that already has an APP there are people out there there are programs out there that you have to pay money to do that with this kind of a big deal Api let other people make better front ends think of is like how how long before we see this sensational piece so-and-so uses Google's Google is Google has put us the Laura Gill Andy Nocco Rene Ritchie that was nice talking about quick around the horn buying your pocket that's automatically transcribing everything in the room that's ever say oh my God like okay it's well it's also a voice recorder that every single phone result tape-recorded remained for you it's kind of a revolution a home mortgage company that's focused on customer service what rocket mortgage has award winning client service PULLARA data potato but I but anyway we'll take a little break and Laurie are you all right you're not praxis dot org number thirty thirty rocket mortgage from quicken loans push-button get mortgage rocket mortgage dot com slash Russian for almost a decade now nine years in a row they've done it six years in a row for mortgage servicing for Jd Power Award Information Visit JD power our dot com the other thing I love about rocket mortgage they're changing the game with their industry leading online lending technology do it online your mortgage do it right they've got a team of mortgage experts that are obsessed with finding a better way that means they're number one goal is to make the home buying process smoother rocket mortgage you're getting more than just alone because rocket mortgage is more than just a lender all you gotta do is go to rocketmortgage dot com slash Mac break take the first step to the home of your dreams get started online today rocket mortgage dot com slash MAC break equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states and mls consent Jack break we thank you for supporting US rocket mortgage they've been a great sponsor for a couple of years now the thank you for supporting us by going at URL rocket mortgage dot com slash. Mac break well anti only an hour you probably have only taken a few hundred pictures so far and support every step of the way and I mean when I say award winning jd power has ranked quicken loans highest in customer satisfaction for Primary Mortgage Origination House look at just go to rocketmortgage dot com slash Mak break you know it's hard enough finding the right house fortunately getting the loan to buy the house is the apple held back deep fusion I always thought they did they were waiting until they got their hands on that makes we we like that right 'cause easy for us they've already helped millions of Americans achieve their dream of home ownership including many of our listeners when you work with in a display Luna Pad makes Luna display the cut sherlock by Sidecar and and their response which I thought was really good look we'll talk about can transcribe as it's recording I'm gonNA take that to every meeting from now on right draft the first thing I was thinking it's a Mac break weekly assembled we'll get back to more in just a bit our show today brought to you by Roy her rocket mortgage love these guys from quicken loans when it's time to buy a house I actually we're going to talk about sure locking in a little bit because there is a great blog post by the folks at who make what was it what's it called the Little Tommy share and there's let me take one with the with the iphone eleven let's take one with this after after the show I'm definitely unfortunately after the show it'll be like beautiful easy with rocket mortgage they do more to help you understand the home buying process than anybody else that means with that information you can get exactly what you need is some O- mortgages we're doing virtual lens modeling like Apple last year and we're doing big object portrait mode like apple two years ago but ha ha apples finally catching up on fusion and how wonderful our cameras here here's here's there. Quicker routes boxer is a sheet of photographic film and a Pinhole you gotta do Selfie they look pretty good yeah yeah starting to do Corp. during the commercial like okay well actually let me do a quick side by side of that's nice colorful like purple however there was a wink that maybe more features would be coming in other words a software update he's he's specifically was talking about how you but okay I love the idea that you could you know even if it's not a perfect transcription that you'll have the they did a live demo and it was really keeping up his name's and computational photography and research and they just went and hired him was that who was on stage. Yeah oh I have that yes you do that because that you know like really they're they're putting you know built into their phone assault software that records and then transcribes and makes it searchable and I guess the idea was that they're gonna be able to down the road in software update Bieb able to kind of trained trained it's camera APP to say if you see like a moon in the sky here's a high resolution image of what the Moon looks like just sort of like stick it in there four and could see what they're doing now they could best it maybe that doesn't make a lot of sense but I thought well actually I thought that I thought that was the there was one like the yeah yeah stay tuned yeah I was expecting him to say is who was it who was looking for the phone company that might have been even Samsung that was had understand the dark foreground the bright background and balanced those and so forth yeah the they are also talking about with AH after showing off the new photography features of the of the new new Pixel Camera APP is saying well here's one thing we can't do it see here's the sort of like near twilight so yeah I'm going to have a nice long walk and if if if I get hit by taxis probably don't go and probably going to be picture B. We've got we've got a beautiful picture the MON and over here we've got a beautiful beautiful picture of the the scene lit only entirely by moonlight but you see that like the the moon RPG camera that I've said it ever seen 'em I've got the only the only awkward moment in his presentation for me was he literally goes everybody on the Looney was Rene favorite part was also my favorite part and they had mark Levin the Stanford professor kind of invented excuse not invented but one of the that was in detail taking a little too far is open and close the software should understand that humans don't look that way and should be able to pull like an open eye out of a previous frame or something so it's it's really is then it'll be much more accurate or just gorgeous high resolution three D renderings Render a better start seeing and they can photograph at this point I was really impressed by the photography image and he showed that that's hard to do autographs taken over an interval of something like three or four or five seconds and acquire and of course the stars are moving so we had this offer has to be aware that we don't WanNa have streaking star ars and it really just put whether it's you're doing computational photography on out apple or on a Google product it makes you really makes me think about how everything is possible winner reconnaissance orbiter and laser altimeter and so you could really I mean honestly if you're making moon images you might want to just think about paste in this the full moon because you know because the mood you always see the same side of it facing us at all times you could just simply say why don't we just paste in detail and making fun of them in the now I thought that was that could have been skipped right into also there's one fun part that the only research professor had to say like taking taking fun of the off the coast all right well I can't wait to get my hands on I feel like we're very fortunate because we get to use both the iphone eleven pro it's amazing seabrook with apple and Google Google pushing apple exactly how insane photography can become in the next two three years By the way NASA this completely the Google camera bump looks to the iphone camera although there's is arranged not in a not nee sideways Mickey Mouse but in so what did he do oh I can't I can scroll down for a final procedure for so once you add like intelligent software into this new layer of photography saying well we understand that if there is if it looks like if it looks like people have like blurry yeah I got a fan boy over him say for President I downloaded your iphone APP and you're still in Stafford I took my I took my plastic house to a waterfall van genuinely but if you do wanNA cut and paste the Mon into your photography has released a CGI own kid three D. Elevations of the Moon from satellite photography Oh Max and the Pixel for xl. I carry both Pixel Landon Iphone with all the Times I only wish I could take it on this trip because so four that's why I bought the orange one because then I'll not confuse it's the one with the big camera bump on the night doesn't help right I have to point out how close the sticks and just just go just you don't you don't have to mention apple one way or the other you know especially when you're saying you're catching up in one breath and picture she took and so that's her fingers and hands taking the picture of a guy doing a Selfie it's an Elsie Selfie Leo it's Meta itself is like over bright because they're like there's like eighteen stops of difference a dynamic range so that's this is one kind of picture that we can't actually do that but stay tuned lots of sensors in these phones nowadays that's really I think exciting we live in wonders who was hopeful always hopeful that since they did project what's it called they would still a emoji surprise face yeah there's some price faced Emoji the mouth is on the bottom of the two is and then there's a sensor below it food heavily into detail when he when he after the Hour Oh look here's a star field and we'll look how beautiful it is you had point out that this is a stack of like sixteen Good idea that Google brought her in as their celebrity she's the I two which we've seen much of our modern lives that's right Martha Stewart in the In the hall did you get did they did they stay on the pictures in the hall yeah no it was it was a slide show and you get much nice a few seconds and it was almost the side panels so I can have a pixel and I got an iphone and I have to remember which side is which so it's GonNa be harder with the take the image that you posted on your twitter feed another image of a selfie from the Google event this one not nearly as so that you won't actually hide it behind base behind like a Particle Board and and mute the mute the signal like that but it's not like there's AH I did take my my little toy cows up to the fish ladder in Waltham have running water behind it and like Oh my that's actually that's a that is a hysterical picture of course it's annually see I only saw the part that twitter showed it in show the other part hard to concentrate because the pictures were so beautiful well that's fun because anti really didn't say anything she's she's good and I love her and it was it's techniques and the it's not it's not Voodoo it's just science Robin they he did imply I don't know why they didn't mention it that mentioned likes style or Oh okay they mentioned a how they want to they want to make their new Wifi base stations pretty great pixel camera APP for IOS another Android devices I could have them all in one device I'm just saying if you're wondering why Apple Lens correction and better exposure warmer tones it achieves what most consumers want and that is just to shoot at once and use it he I don't think most consumers Ed nice and by the way that wasn't even you there's a camera and a hand in the picture let's Cam Yeah it was it was for like the came out as early as I think the iphone three but it was the first it was it was the first mutational photography APP ever used and it was go deep fusion by brothers the computational photography Voodoo here and he just went out and without mentioning like diffusion at all events any leads oh is it Annie Liebowitz oh I get it I didn't see the bottom part that's Anne showing doubling but still pretty good but this September two hundred thirty percent which is significant growth strong demand for the iphone that shows that apple's done something right because wasn't demand declining in China there professional photographer he chatted from the Verge Article yes they had images sample images in there he he said I could say that the iphone eleven pro has better with time of flight but no not yet and just because I think I I think covered up what was Mark Levin Camera App that you're talking about was since Canada since the price of the main line that we had in a while so I think there well yes they are upgrading from the seven I think the fact that they can finally get it a little bit Oh oh would you if you click almost which they've done a montage instead of interviews we could've had more time with frustrated at least stream they kept cutting back and forth I don't know what it was like occasion I read all the time I'm more a two thousand eighteen hundred ten percent growth so a doubling more than take Martha Stewart was in the front row she kept taking photos I got I got a legitimate legitimate glimpse at our camera so yeah changed that before I think that at the beginning of this year I believe that that happened in January according to the article in this great public it's kind of a photography dream trip of Batman built yet Leo Furrow your phone and you notice the where suit jackets more because they have all is so nice to China lately maybe it has something to do with the fact that iphone demand was up two hundred thirty percent in September deeper is really what what's pushing such a huge jump in numbers from you know like more than doubling the same amount from a year ago at this time so attractive price point for the base model as you said Laurie and services bundled with hardware and given the largest mix of phones in the installed base in China the iphone seven is three God look at it it's like it's like depth of field I'm getting focused on like but this is just a crummy little five little camera phone this shouldn't be possible my mind is slow and I do like in Hong Kong that the APP was being used maliciously to target individual officers for violence and to victimize individuals property where no police are present as a result had restored the APP H K map dot live showed police presence in Hong Kong they have now because I was too I was holding like one over one I remember you have the right to now I got started the same time we're also not valid it's interesting that Cook said the APP violated apple rules and local laws and so we have to pull it down John Gruber was a little critical good it's like these cameras are great and which subjectively like the artistic decisions that the different software companies made yeah you have the choice you have the choice and I I think that go out in the dark knight and sit outside and take astro photography subjective differences now it's not like objectively this camera socks and this one is yes so there's also the Original Allen analyst is kind of pointing to the iphone seven as the upgrading from removed it again I think finally removed at Tim Cook said a memo to UH internally to apple employees officers would use a world readable crowdsourcing format like this can Mr Cooke point to a single an example of that can anyone ice seven as the reason but I would argue that the cheaper iphone is actually a big deal right now the the iphone eleven is the lowest nations old. It's time in other words time to buy a new iphone even in China last time we spoke apple yeah I think that the low cost I found really helps out. The analyst is Timothy are curry and he's quoted by Philip Elmer dewitt on his the under scrutiny for a company that usually measures obtain times before cutting anything is both sad and startling the APP is aggregating reports telegram facebook and other sources it beggars belief K. rights that a campaign to target individual also says the second allegation that the APP victimizes individuals and property were no police are present he says Mr Cooke Ebony evidence for this claim the APP does not show and the known for crisis. Pr They've been known for very methodical very thought out almost bulletproof pr where you can disagree with it but you can't just quickly say how it's has we're a press release and the really market has kind of gutless for me is that they didn't take a stand as we think it's the right thing to do at this time given the situation in Hong Kong thing they're not saying oh well it's a very good thing country Tartan version of the Google home one of our chat room regulars Edmonton oiler guys of that memo as was Mitch Lasky mcshea is the Creator Pin Board his blog idle words dot com has in the last few months been recorded percents police shows concentrations police so a gruber concludes I can't recall an apple memo or statement that crumbles so quickly long it was we have to we are we have our hands are tied it violates local law and we are we always say that we have to obey local laws it's no sense at all the APP does not show the locations of individual officers at all it's so shows general concentrations of police units with a significant lag sake it's like just take a stand even if even if it's a stand that you'd think you're GonNa get jumped on for don't just say our hands are tied violates local laws the Andy my the point I was going to make the original when apple originally pulled it the developers said you know we're not giving heads thirty dot com site he says several factors contribute to strong iphone demand including a better trade in program from apple on that's interesting a more at and it violates APP developer guidelines we always say the things have to aren't we have no opinion one way or another it could be any country anyone it's like for seven Oy saying that the company had removed the APP after receiving quote credible information from the authorities I e the Hong Kong police and people it it's the APP itself is not committing an illegal act it's what people are doing with it which is out of the hand of the developer and under the circumstances apple should oh foundation or substance and this just came off as really fast and really for Agile in very different than I think we've ever seen coms from apple before remember it wasn't public under that circumstance you'd have to pull a lot of things like you'd have to pull ways for showing where there's drunk Dui checkpoints like the you know and what's been going on in Hong Kong because he's on the ground and following the protests McKay says the first application that the APP was being used maliciously is is out of our hands so apple let it back into the APP store under those under that that idea and then pulled it again because they have no evidence that you know it's being used to hurt people well you know I have evidence that tinder is used to rape people so have fought against the Chinese government's opinion that it it it's illegal which I don't think it is also refer so he says it not only goes against the evidence it goes against the documentary record of eighteen weeks of protests and not even possible given the technical constraints of the APP he talking about this and I you know I I wanna I wanna sit on the fence on this one on the one hand I feel like if you're an American company should stand up for free look they they did have the their their final numbers were lower than what they had originally estimated. This is not an APP to help you you know avoid the police this is not an APP to help you find the police this just shows some things what you do with this information the fact that when they approved the APP The the Chinese Communist Party newspaper had this editorial that was I think I can't remember the headline of my head but it was being a lot of money there and so you know they're not gonNA pull out of the China and that's really the choice is pull out of China or follow the laws it doesn't mean anything you know just just because somebody is using it inappropriately from its original intent doesn't mean that it should be removed from the APP store because then even the idea of complying with local laws in the United States of America how many horrendous injustices in the past hundred years I've been committed that again debatable it violates APP guidelines well again look you're going to take down the ways APP because it it shows people where police are staked out apple in the future based on this and I believe that this this this editorial with appropriate translation landed on the desks of p responsibility to its shareholders if not at stakeholders to shareholders to make a lot of money and there's no bigger market than the Chinese market and they're made ever this is what president she says now what are you GonNa do it darling how EU regulation cannot cannot affect change as much as a single cy in China on highway so they can avoid speed tracks straps an drunk checkpoints are you it's it's again it's just gutless lorry that that's exactly the China and I it's a tough place to be I'd like to your spine from apple but it's not me it's not my choice to make it's their choice to make them speech liberty and and if you're not country that is authoritarian and trying to sell products there maybe you should rethink your stance there on the other hand apple has title in Cupertino that might have influenced their decision it was it was aimed at them it was read this this is what the Chinese yeah that's that's true but the thing is I keep saying this I don't know where the line is that apple is not willing to cross when it comes to China I wish I wish the winds of our has apple out of their minds and and the text of the editorial was like I can't believe they're aligning themselves with hooligans and criminals episodes that you want to go make star wars fine if you're gonNA make it short don't say you don't have enough time to tell me I will give you the time you need the camera guy was great like I say that I knew that the that there's a line which was we will absolutely we will absolutely not acquiesced this that and the fact that the the the fact that was absolutely in line is be has actually been underscored promoted by actual laws that helped these injustices to happen at some point they have to say what's not said something very similar you usually see little thoughts on flash and you think that you know so much time and effort went into this and apples and we have now we we should question their motives and we should and I it's it's it's unbelievable stuff for them and take given that the there will almost certainly be be consequences for he's government and I don't want to relitigate it because we spent a long time on Wednesday last Wednesday on this week in Google again on Sunday on twit palms it was intended for the apple employees but that doesn't excuse ways come out those all think that goes without yeah it's it's a way of issuing press release it's not enough that the that an APP simply by by our developer guidelines it doesn't it's not enough to say that it's legal it does things that are illegal in this country at some point apple justice that they are actually for freedom that they're actually for privacy because otherwise it they have to really defend themselves against the argument that they are for these things when the has to say either you have to say here is lines we do not cross why we're making these decisions or they have to stop pretending that they are actually optics are good and when it suits were running late we'll get sorry I'm I'm talking to somebody in the studio night I've just telling is going to happen more and more and more and more by the way and that's very frightening to me it wasn't as big a problem when China was content to suppress its own citizens but unease APP store that's their own country that's their own thing it is big but bigger is that world allowing another country to sensor us because because a finance money to kind of play a more open more liberal global game because they they wanted to participate in the global economy but now you're and deserves more conversation is how right now using this example the Chinese government is influencing how we censor our own people somebody's yelling at Ford Motor Company nobody's just cleaned Disney opened Disney Shanghai right right right so here in the United States by banning people from twitch firing them for being a part of the interview by Fun Finding NBA Players We're speaking out like the these this is censoring people in the US because of influence from an outside country that to me is much bigger than were pulling out from the there isn't there isn't a lot that you can argue against adhering to regulations in a different country you know I think I had mentioned that that becomes increasingly surrounded by authoritarian countries are you discussed stop selling to everybody with Microsoft for having ice deals but also for you know Liberty Civil Liberties Environmental Causes Albert Kennedy if they didn't say that over and over again I don't know I mean worth pointing out is that Tim Cook get into a lot of trouble because he believes engagement and I said last week sometimes engagement becomes appeasement you have to be very careful coming him for for working with the trump administration etoiles slamming him for working with some of the governments that extract rare earth materials in Latin America and Africa and he he is question for American companies in general and broke my heart last week in in many many ways and it's it's not going to and they've been doing it for for we consistent in this but Andy's point there has to be aligned because there are things and it is not an apple questions the question because we see companies ah being pro environment but selling to a lot of environment and yet the only tool consumers have the only tool even journalists like us have is either is not buying the product no centric when we start trying to impose our beliefs on them though they're in some circumstances I do think that we should try to impose our beliefs but to me the more frightening thing the thing that's bigger well invite them into the global world but economy yeah instead of instead of thinking that they're China is its own country it's this a great conspiracy theory the perhaps by making by pulling the APP the putting the APP back they were sending a signal to it's and and for us to call him out I don't think Tim Cook would an apple a beginning as much heat on this if they didn't constantly say how they stand up for privacy freedom installment android is to now Andy Rubin created android it and on and actually honestly we're I don't know what the answer it's their this kind of opens up a larger global discussion I've mentioned this before really and I think it's only a matter of time already our government the American government has been demanding similar features back doors the Soviet Union the fact that we did with some success bringing down the Soviet Union and liberalize Russia until we didn't so jeans Beatles records yeah there is sponsor fresh books the number one accounting software and the cloud when I used many years and was so happy when I discovered fresh books fresh books takes the alone they have been working as fast as their little hearts can to put more and more stuff under encryption so they do do that they do act quickly before anybody noticed web or on the fresh books APP if you're self employed or a small business and you're still back in the days where you had to fire up word and excel to do invoicing stop it stress out of accounting for you and your business with easy to use billing expense organization time tracking all at your fingertips in the fresh books dashboard on the you can give them all the fresh books APP collaborate with your team on a single platform you can utilize specific team members by assigning them the manager role in certain areas that is a certain arrogance and in the in the American way of thinking in fact it goes back to Great Britain and what they used to call the white man's burden it's it's there's always like there was a story with Kenya still use can you still use android at what point do you have lake do you have your own sense of ethics and your product Imax Richard Hong Kong citizens download this APP quickly and they gave him a few days and then they pulled it finally I like that idea I don't know list serve your clients better to share in their success to do what you love not the boring paperwork and if you have a team fresh books is awesome respond to clients wherever you are never miss an update and because the mobile APP and the desktop are always in sync you can work on whichever devices convenient for you right now seeing if they were doing it secretly wouldn't even know about it but they're open which Kinda streisand affects it at the same time true but it's it's worrisome when they do it China's look they're becoming more Western more open and more exactly and they weren't in the eighties without whittled CNN thought would become more that way investing and you'll never miss any important information I love fresh books you will too it's used entrusted by small business owners in a hundred and twenty stop the insanity that's what I do and this back in two thousand four it when I found fresh books they make beautiful invoices makes it easy to send them on the Air Apple released a Mac Os ten catalina supplemental update with a lot of fixes that in We get a little pat on the back from those Nice fresh books folks and you get thirty days free fresh books dot com slash Mac break today right before we went on it is an arrogance that our way is the right way and we'll just in Russia back with facebook bought to Saad coming we're going we're living in the challenging world increasingly make it easier to run your business and more efficient with fresh books go to fresh books dot com slash Mac break put Mac break weekly in the how did you hear about a section you'll get thirty days free only you can do if you're always on the go fresh books has you covered download they're easy to use APP today you always have your business with you snap a picture receipt capture expenses and second that sounds like an apple problem not a one hundred government yeah right now that's England and Australia asking for that of course following along on Russia China and other countries let's take a little break out there is a A portent update on Catalina I think I want to talk about Catalina a little bit there have been problems but first a word from ours countries but their customer service that comes from Toronto those Nice fresh books folks via phone email in live chat so you'll always get response whenever you need it race remember the under the hood we talked about this last week Catalina is dramatically changing your volume organization under a PF s and of course there's probably needs glued improved installation reliability a lot of people have been complaining about Catalina stalling sounds like this apple fix has to do with Mac with low discs you can include billable hours and expenses automatically and invoices just snap a picture of her seated goes into the invoice easy invoicing means you got more time to grow your clients Oh that was that stall we were hearing about resolves an issue that prevents accepting I cloud terms and conditions when multiple accounts are logged in I don't know this is a bug that gets fixed but every time I installed catalina on a machine I have to log in the cloud I counted it last night a I don't know all the times they're doing it without telling us good point while it's just it I think there's a part of arrogance and apple in their company that's at Oh look we're going to invest in so you can try it right now fresh books dot com slash Mac break don't forget to put Mac break weekly in the how did you hear about a section that way we a lot of free disk space to do that so they've fixed that issue it also says apple also says it fixes an issue that prevents setup assistant from completing so there you go the Times eight cousin Leo what the Hell is thirteen as well so maybe this is fixed you have to I thought maybe it's just me is your second in command can manage a project or two or all of them and billing and other team members can be managed more effectively in one tool you get back again to the work that so I don't know if this ten dot fifteen that one fixes that but it does say resolves an issue that prevents accepting I clad terms and conditions when multiple we're GONNA you're GonNa want to apply this this update there's also thirteen point one point three for IOS oh it's another another regular update let me just start that on my ipad I a what's thirteen point one point three doing a lot of bug fixes cloud cancer logged in. I wonder if that's related it also says it improves the reliability of saving game centered data in Apple Arcade Games when you're playing off line crazy today because there was a flaw in the pseudo algorithm that allowed anybody with the user minus one and you can think of I had it on I had it a little bit on Catalina a lot on irs thirteen crazy so eventually I copied to the clipboard. I'm just that's a pretty serious flaw so anyway we have no reason not to update right I'm I'm advising people nationals and it sort of plays passcode or computer computer password against I cloud password accounts and uses them to verify each other computer was to it was bad a mojave it's really bad on Catalina candidate last night it was more than a dozen times I was going nuts wasn't China is the main two sorry does that they do do that I mean in response to governments asking for information from the uncultured they're not they're not they're not trying to become more like us they're trying to become more like them which out every single independent Republican Republic tries to be so I think his let's make the whole thing encrypted that's that's not going to matter if a country we're not just talking about China here's some Australia yeah that simply says well if if we are lost John ging world and it it's hard for each other we have each other that's right thank somebody in the chatrooms Thaad there's a we that the government has is entitled to all day on the phone if you if you WanNa just encrypted and then let us decrypt it that's fine we don't care how you do it but you better give us the tax yeah you have do we know it feels like it yeah it feels like they're so there is a state where it can be authorized to accept your security there's a feature you really really want need I don't think there's any reason not to wait at least a month month and a half two months hold off Catalina right definitely already also have as you do on on it's terminal and Macintosh I wonder if they're also fixing that I would guess they are so thirteen point two just by then I bet most of these little glitches and bug fixes will be worked out there might be new ones with thirteen point two but I he's saying that audio production do not if there is a piece of software that you really have to have that really has to work I would check with I think most of the pain points will be taken care of at that point a lot of companies are warning their users especially pro suffer users not to go to Catalina Adobe on yeah yeah but yeah I mean if you're holding off than than just because we're seeing so many bug fix updates you know for people who don't need it just wait until will to update our APP because right now it won't work on Catalina so this is the current in Catalina the new rule is if you are an apple this might have worked it's a it's overflow error to log in as as a super user and you know R. M. Star are I'm dash are star cut and but uses a lot of pro APPs and he has a particular APP that he uses the company said Yeah we're working with apple to get approved I got basically the same thing going on there is and I wonder I bet you the Catalina update also fixes their Lennox destroys or updating like more correct yeah what about now there is a terminal unknown yeah the opening from an unknown developer is no longer a V do whatever they wanted to so that's pseudo is a big bad problem the do command on Lenox and since apple long run the bug fixes but what are the thirteen is it I mean we're gonNA thirteen point one point three this is the fourth update I mean do you have an updated to thirteen right now at this point I I don't see why you should just wait till thirteen point to you know just just shoot to where the puck is going not where it is is that what you're saying she finds upper right corner hit it hit it we're here to hit it where the goal is loving notarize ing ABS- Yes So this is a at somebody emailed me and I and I he uses final you know when you set up your device because we all have a lot of apple devices I think the installation lost both and now trying to authorize one off the other and it's going back the company to see what they say about Catalina because there are known issue not just the thirty two bit issue there's a number of known issues you know one thing I think remember we were worried about his add anywhere to your the old setting that was always there allow downloaded from APP store developers due to disable it temporarily so what you should do is go ahead issue that command know that you'll now be completely open anywhere isn't it the case that I can then say anywhere install that APP and then go back to a safer thing without disabling it so it's really just adding that feature into anything from the Internet download and install whatever it was you wanted and immediately go back into security and privacy and and and turn not one reason if you have an ipad pro ipad Os really is a great. Yeah Yeah that okay so I I had I ipad thirteen points because you do talk about turning it on and off you talk about the consequences of it but one thing I noticed when you do issue the command it does all it does salable at all you can't go into your settings and change that to like force the allowance and there is a terminal command we do we do have enforced until it finally sneaks in and then gets the other one feel like that I'm doing it as fast as I can you know dumb luck the grit scale rhythm there was a certain amount of arrogance and saying well of course could become there should the communists was going to go away they're becoming bigger becoming democracy by thousand years of history thought that in Russia we thought arised it will not be install -able on Catalina is that right that's what he told me so I don't I don't think petition exists anymore you can't right click and open any being down our Max the way it looks down iphones I think it's great on our phones but on the Mac you you're there are hundreds and hundreds of fantastic D- do I love a lot of the features that are now in place on Catalina warning me about you know some kind of software that's running the background that he didn't know about asking me Lina I have I I have an APP that I had written I compiled it ran it opened it no problem so the that's the good news is if you're a develop I want to allow this to have Bluetooth when why in the world with that Apnea Bluetooth things like that but this sort of thing of like forcing galloper if you have a certificate for your software you must get it notarized and if it is if you have a certificate for your apple developer and is not gatekeeper back on right on yeah yeah that's the safest way to do that yeah you know that's the that's one of those things like I don't I don't approve of Apple lucky the cutting into our business a little bit too much you know so I just to test this in cattle you can only install software on your Macintosh from a developer with with that is certified in notarized is that going to happen or even worse you have to get it from the will who are software developers because if I can't run a program I wrote on my Mac I'm not gonNA use a Mac period I pace it wrong and now I felt this is actually issue for me this has been an issue for me on on Mojave I I didn't I thought it was APP store like you do on an iphone I don't want that I don't either I don't want infect constricted that would kill Macintosh for a whole segment of people if you do the command and by the way read because the nice thing is an I by the way sent my car the person was saying Oh my what do I do I sent him the link to this it's a little more confusing like how did I accidentally download malware or something like that but on your macura you're much more aware of you know what you're allowing these systems helpers that are not you know they didn't go through the apple channels it's nothing personal they they they're also making for all these other operating systems so you know why do they have to do upper you're writing your own apps your didn't even have to right click it it just opened I'm not sure why it opened it wasn't I wasn't doing next code but it did so but I do worry that apple's that this is just the beginning of a continues squeezed the next and and yes they give terminal command and everybody should go to war and I phone but if we get to the position where you know these things become locked down rentals from big companies we're gonNA that so they don't it doesn't mean that they're nefarious it doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong or fantastic developers it make fantastic apps and apple trying to lock down our Max like that how to get on camera about that but I know renee doesn't want us to tell people because it really is a bad idea 'cause you're you're disabling gatekeeper to be able to do it so it's really not earned the terminal command because you might need this but I'm worried that in the next version they won't even allow that is our we do you think it's reasonable to say we're going to get to a point where apple's going to say it is I I just don't think it's a good idea we're we're not Mac users are not the same as iphone users in that we know what we're getting into you know with understand why they're doing it I mean it for the normal person it's just making it safer yes and those normal people they're happy downloading from the APP store eligible to jump through these hoops just to be able to have these things available to download on on Catalina to me as a little bit it's a little too helicopter mom you know love Lennox I will not use windows when I get a windows machine I pretty much put Linda Linda Windows has gotten worse and worse and worse by the way if you think if you think it's bad on the apples want got their flip phone they got the candy bar phone nobody knew or cared what it ran and I think for those people which is not an insignificant part of the market having a locked up system talk what's thirteen since the iphone came out on the twenty s that's that's in three weeks four updates is done my phone at that point I mean the good news is Lennox has come along Lennox is really good open software even has an interchangeable battery so I've ordered one of these because I think we should talk about it on the show is obviously near not nearly as elegant as an nfl a power outage last week. I don't WanNa see Mike Company brought to its knees by ransomware fortunately we have a very good it guy named Russell and they're happy locked down Mauer ransomware in particular in Steve's about to do our regular weekly ransomware report is and apple at some point is going to have to some point be new operating systems like Microsoft is is beginning to feel around with that Google was Fuchsia Apple's going to have to do that as well people say Economic Code GimMe Gimme that's right I agree with something secret something on I more dot Com we can use yeah happy with the great great that we have alternative from different companies the Mac I'm going to echo thing it's it's different in kind and it has to remain different kind otherwise there's no point to its existence I completely pasted pacing and then the worst thing is on the Mac it's saying okay now log into the Mac okay now give me the iconic how it's going back and forth and it's and it's not predictable so it's like just a few more times it's really believe you yet twitter is now a catalyst APP on the Max he is keeping us safe and secure so far but I really worry every business should worry and so you're gonNA see pressure to make much more locked down systems and they're going to be plenty I'm very glad there's an open source movement to do this I don't WanNa make this analogy but I'm GonNa make it anyway I sort of the way that I position is that for a bunch of people a feature phone was fine is it I'm just leasing map let a very high price which is the argument people give for for iphone but but again I and what's the operating system that's based in the cloud runs off a and has multiple end points that you just manifest mentor wha what's the security model those I don't know but I I would hope that it wasn't that great I mean we didn't talk about it last week Mark Gherman wrote an article for Bloomberg saying Apple's merged ipad Mac APPs leave developers uneasy users windows his farmers but and then I there is a company called pure ism that makes a phone now the Lebron five that is also free and this curiouser catalysts curious so I actually I thought this was a big deal to have the twitter APP on Mac again because I I am not or at least not on my computer I haven't actually tried to you know deleting reinstalling haven't done troubleshooting thing but so I don't know what it it a crazy twitter user I'm one of those bottom of the barrel basic vanilla users I barely use it for anything so yeah developers don't like some developers there Liley depends on you paying for the software they right and for years they've been sort of grouchy that apple wants to give away the IPAD APP for free when you get the message in my inbox and I click on the twitter linked to see the original tweet there's nothing here to see so I don't know it's like really broken right now it doesn't seem to be working from the MAC and it was like it's like broken it won't do anything like him yes so like I I try to click I don't think people should do it but I think if you're the kind of person who wants to run those apps you know well I'm gonNA tell 'cause I'll tell you why I had to and sighted go back to the to the bare bones that the twitter APP is I downloaded and installed it it's exactly the same as the twitter used to be for Mac before they pulled it from the front hanged twice apparently it is not as easy for a developer to as apple said just flip a switch and suddenly you're IOS APP is on Macintosh and he points S. is finally they don't want to do any work they just want the phone they wanNA press facebook do whatever they want spine I just think it's good to have alternatives and if you want like android to play around with it for whatever when when the APP store I came out and I'm we users all expected ninety nine cent apps even though developers spending their blood sweat and tears to make this amazing is is a nightmare and and so you know I'm terrified I went into our staff meeting last week and I said what are we doing to cause I don't want you know yeah for for me it's just a case of ownership of at if I spend a couple of grand on computer and I don't get to do whatever I want with it no matter how silly or self destructive but AC- just unlock it everywhere and developers jittery about that because again you know it it's work to make the MAC version but the expectation will be it's free and then some until Macintosh came out today I don't particularly celebrate this but if you're curious if you WANNA use catalysts they should all be free and then on the other hand to say you know it's difficult for developers to do you you're you're proving the point that it should be something that is pay that you have to the Bloomberg report says it's it's difficult to us to just transfer it to catalyst you don't just click a button and suddenly it's there so you know on the one hand to say the product for them and by saying this this APP that's basically an IPAD APP should be free on Mac it's that's dangerous because it's not it's not easy to make it just like the as you looked at found it and then you okay any eighty who's willing to tap this thing damn thing eighteen times in a

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Adobe MAX! The Creativity Conference

This Week in Photo

43:53 min | 10 months ago

Adobe MAX! The Creativity Conference

"Hey. Folks in this episode of the PODCAST, I'm talking with some folks that are going to fill you in on the latest happenings at a little company called Adobe. Welcome back to another episode of this week in photo I'm your host Frederik van Johnson Today on the show we're talking to some folks from Adobe about. A little show called Max that they put on from year to year. The lot of people in the creative industry look forward to kind of like Mac, nerds look forward to macworld. The creatives look forward to Max because it's kind of the latest greatest it's coming out of adobe innovations. And just sort of a shot in the arm creativity wise of what's happening in the creative world. Obviously. This year is a little bit different, and Max is a little bit different They're pivoting. These were pivots overused this year but they've they've restructured the conference into some more of a virtual offering and I want to get to the bottom of it. I want to understand is it better? Is it? You know what's better than being full on physical is virtual virtual allow more people to attend a you know, what are we giving up going virtual? So all those things we're going to answer. So Britney miscarrying Katrina ice men. Are, here to talk about the stuff, we're also going to dive into if we have time into some topics around light room in understand light room workflows in that cool stuff. So welcome to the show guys how you doing. Great. Thank you for having eight. Thank you. No. Thank you both for coming on. Monday afternoon I know how busy Mondays are for everybody. So thanks for taking the time to do this. I WanNa have you both introduce yourselves your individual areas of expertise inside the adobe adobe ecosystem, Katrina iceman. We'll start with you what do you what do you and I have known each other you know for a long time I won't go into how long but it's been a long time. I'm happy to see your face in here and I was surprised when I saw that you are attached to adobe also they need her so What do you? What are you doing at Adobe? Well, first, let me say that I started with Photoshop. Before it was released and even when I see with that Beta version of photoshop like I WANNA work with this company that was over thirty years ago. So hang on to your dreams because they do come through and. I know I'm tenacious and. Due to my photographic writing and educational experience. There is a new project that adobe was developing. That's now in light room, and it's all of the room to to`real and the discovery edit files learning an inspiration all in-app that I'm happy to talk about, and that's really what I concentrate on is working with the community to share integration and information. So you're you're I know you're you're official title of over there is the your product manager for engagement and I'm interested to a really happy to see that you're helping with the education side of that because you know as as the interview progresses as we talked about in the Green Room, I want to understand and I want our listeners viewers to understand that ecosystem, the light room classic ecosystem in Mobile, and how that fits into it and what they should be using for what is. As you know as a educator, there's a lot of confusion out there around what tool should I use much much to a to the effect of people even beings suffering from analysis paralysis like, Oh, I should use that year. So I use that I use this deal or whatever. So let's get to the bottom of that to in this interview as we progress, of Brittany, tell us about you and your your expertise over to Dobie. What are you? What's your? What's your area of responsibility? So, I, oversee strategy content and marketing for adobe corporate events, which includes Adobe Max says well as Adobe Summit. So this year has been a very busy year where we're going all in on virtual events, and so I'm very excited to talk more about what we're doing for Max. That's cool. That's cool. So Max. So take us for the folks that may not have heard of adobe Max right what what was adobe Max originally concepted for and who who's target So, Adobe Max is the world's largest creativity conference, and typically it has been three full days of immersive learning and training and inspiration workshops in a variety of other activities in a physical environment. So we traditionally have appealed to creative professional's across all of the various products that adobe focuses on. It's also where we traditionally will announce any of our new releases and our latest innovations. Very cool. Very cool like I said. So it's kind of like the macworld but of the creative world for people like. For people like the punish pixels, the maximum is the place to go. So dive into the. It's a little bit. This is a pivot you know that word. To Virtual Max in back in the back in the day when the world was a little bit different a couple years ago you I would Max came about you'd hear all these awesome stories about the different innovations that were released in the crowd is just electric adobe pours. You know it seemed like adobe poor just a ton of effort and resources into making this like the shining conference on the hill what has changed in this sort of covert era of virtual. Or force virtual is it is it better? Is it different? Is You know what? What, what's your perception and what's the word from adobe to the world on the new kind of iteration of Max Yeah said it's definitely a really exciting time for us to innovate some of this technology that we have been really strong at showcasing our keynotes in the livestream, but we've never really created a virtual event of this magnitude before. So it is absolutely different and exciting than what we traditionally have done. I, think one of the biggest. Things is that we can completely brought in our audience and our reach globally. So we are anticipating hundreds of thousands of registrations across hundreds of countries like this is a a major effort that adobe is putting into it, and we're actually going to be streaming for fifty six hours straight across the three days of October twentieth through twenty second, and that's only a portion of our content. So the the one thing that I would say that is absolutely different is that we have created more content than we ever have for any in. Event and so this gives. Any of our audience, the opportunity to attend sessions over the course of the three days. But also after for what works for them and we are looking at lots of different. Regions. So new languages that's been added into the content I. Mean we are really going all in from global mix of variety of speakers the you know. Just just to set the stage I. Am a huge. Even before all this, this pandemic nonsense happened I've been a huge fan of distance learning from the mainly from the perspective of the democratization of education across the planet straight. So in these conferences that happen usually the people that can come to the conference are the that have the means the motive and opportunity, right? So you have to build travel time off got to be able. To afford the hotels in the meals and all that stuff and I've always been of the mind that wouldn't it be great. If you know the kid in, you know backwoods New Zealand or whatever that could never come out to California they could still have a version of it to you know to get excited and explore their creative the creative side of what they wanna do so. With. In that Light Bernie, what is this a you know let's say Kobe disappears next. Week. Does does Max Twenty twenty one revert back to the way of Max Twenty nineteen or do we see an evolution of sort of a hybrid of that moving forward or will adobe just lean into virtual and say, Hey, we you know this this virtual thing was amazing. We don't feel the need to spend all the time and money to build a physical event but what he's saying so we are from a future perspective we will absolutely have more hybrid of events. The virtual aspect of it is something that will continue to grow, and even when you wouldn't you talked about the educational aspect and the learning everyone has different type of learning and what's available to them and their strengths, and so that's where I see a lot of opportunity moving forward because there are some things that you just would appreciate more in. Person Ray, whether it's the networking aspect that you would rather shake someone's hand but you know we have this almost a responsibility now to really educate more on a global perspective and provide different types of creative communities with the with this knowledge. So when we talk about expanding our audience, it's also getting more into hobbyists or social media influencers who aren't traditionally. Part of photoshop and illustrator, and rush, and all of our other products, and now they can start to learn more and get some of that begin her content that will ultimately help them in their career longer-term. Yeah. I. Think that's that's fantastic and I love that you know adobe and a lot of companies are sort of leading the charge in this disorder of virtual push in my hope as a photographer slash. Content Creator is that a lot of this the virtual side of sticks you know because I I'd hate to you know. Rubber band back to the way it was, and then give up all this cool. Being able to sit in my sweatpants and consumed county you know. That's the way. Jimmy. So now it's exciting. He could I wanna I, WANNA. Bring you into the conversation Katrina. So education you know and we talk we talk a little bit in my community. Those we can photo community we talk about you know light room obviously note there's no photographer the planet doesn't know what light is, but there's in my community there's some confusion around how to use light rim. Best. You know there's people that just you know I'm enlighten rooms gonNA use Light Room I've got pointed at my drive import export boom, and then there are other what I like to call more progressive photographers that are integrated their. You know their phone in their tablets into the workflow in. THAT ECOSYSTEM CLOUD Local thing. From your perspective what is the correct way? Was the correct way to use light room in the series of products that are light? Room The answer's Yes. You'RE GONNA say. So and it it is it. I understand that it can be confusing. All right now adobe started light room classic. When people when DSL ours got really you know high quality in popular. Because before that remember we were processing image through adobe bridge in camera raw. But because we're shooting more and more and more adobe developed classics, you have managed edit. Process and share. And that was. A fabulous solution for many years and then. This camera showed up. Yup and we all know that. The most popular camera out in the world now is is the iphone with many android phones in Google funds doing fabulous jobs to. And so the way people were taking pictures and where they are working, how they're working was shifting so. Just having classic on your desktop wasn't really going to reflect how people were really working. You know people, WANNA be mobile people want access to their images they want that flexibility. And Adobe understood that and then created what we refer to is the eco-system. So it's not either or it's really how can you have the ecosystem work for you? When I look at it. It's the one big question that people can ask themselves is, do you want to manage your files? Do you want to be responsible for importing? hard-drive backing up key wording like. There's people are like I need to know where my raw files are. Like that that's a very classic up or. Are you comfortable with importing, they go to the cloud. And they're already backed up managed for you. and. Then there's the third version which is synchronize. You can import through classic and synchronized to light. Room so that you can. Rankin rate on your phone. You can process your phone when you do that when you import to classic synchronizing. Al Boom. The big thing people really need to understand what's going to the cloud from classic is the smart. Preview. So in brackets I'm GONNA say please don't throw away your raw files if you do that. Thank you for saying that because that was a question right. So when you sink in that came on the other the other interview I did that was the flow of the raw files live on in his particular workflows, a raw files live on the local workstation. But then he does edits and crops in all that stuff mobile. In those changes sink back and my question. Then and now was those changes sink back through the cloud back down to the workstation are are the edits accurate? Can they be accurate if you're on a tablet editing and they bounce up to the cloud and back down and now it's GonNa, pull the real data from the raw file to apply those edits are those edits? Is it accurate or do you still need to go in and say, Oh, a little bit to saturated what I'm not a software engineer and I'm not gonNA. Say The further the cloud is less accurate they are. You Weird. But. You are working on smart previews. So I would be completely confident with all. My global edits might cropping most of the selective edits where you would probably want to take another look if you very critical would be the fine detail to sharpening the noise reduction mean things that are based on picks pixels. Right. Yeah. I would. Now I would have to confirm that with the engineers but. There's a limit to how much you can zoom in on smart preview. So that's the one way of working. So you're comfortable with the hard drives in managing and renaming and key wording and that. Millions of people. So let's just say the other thing that is always in the back of the room light room classic is not going away. Period, Joe Done. So End of life it doesn't mean it's the classic is our way of sunsetting. Classic coke or whatever all that stuff was. No just dated myself. Then there's the people that want to work more mobely. Alright I started with classic I'm now like all light remote the way. And because I can shoot my raw files shoot with so many import into light room on my IPAD. Right those laws go to the cloud and I can also synchronize with classic. So. It's more of a question like how where are your raw files? Light Room Classic has. You know. Very good features for looking at files you're comparing. Color Coding, you can print web, there's a map module, there's book module you know it's very expensive. For the developed engine is So so so similar right I've traveled before covert I travel a lot. And for the last three years I, never carried a laptop. I mean I know it sounds terrible. Waste six pounds. Four pounds and I wanted to carry. It matters when you're when you're when you're hip and all that stuff around the airport or something. Yeah. Every every pound counts. Yeah. That's interesting and I think you know it's the. A lot of would I hear about light room versus light room classic is Hey if you're a series professional photographer, you are going to use light room classic because the other thing is a watered down version of this real version of Light Room Yada Yada Yada you know. What do you say to that Yada Yada? Just. Insulted me. Over thirty years and degree in photography now it's really it's really. You have to choose the tools that are rife. You mean, there's professional photographers only shooting with a phone. Are they not as professional right I? Love it. When if you show me a print, I can't tell you. Oh Yeah. That's came off of a Nikon. Yeah exactly. So choose the tools. You. Know they're they're that's the great thing about the flexibility. It's like, yeah, you need to make a choice, but here were offering you all these different ways are working. And the great thing about working with light room is. I can work on the couch. Yeah. Yeah. I know it's. It's yeah. In that I think that's that's a lot of the. A lot of this sort of I know I think it's a lot of is just timing right? Because I remember when when the IPAD was first announced, you know and base eldest new things come is going to revolutionize how you compute in all this stuff and then it came and we're like. It's it's great and everything, but I can't print I can't do this as limited. As so that was for me that that was my feeling is like, yeah, I got one and I've had every iteration sense but. My first introduction to the IPAD wasn't that it is a replacement for my desktop. It was I wish I thought it was going to be but it wasn't. So now you fast today it's still kind of have that you know it's a sidecar it's not the car. To My workstation. I'm trying to get through that. You know, but it's maybe it's maybe it's an age thing dislike. Yeah. In my day, we had computers and they were had keyboard. In the snow, it was hard. Come we had we had five kids in one shoe between us. So I. Understand that. And then there's other people were it's like I want to make my life. The qualities you know in developing is the same. And you can't look at my files and. That file came off an exit, strive because those drives cost more. With those and I just love the real magic of this eminent magic for me mean literally I import the I pad. and. Then a couple seconds later it's there on the desktop and then I'm waiting in line at the restore my image on my phone and I'm ranking or rating. I mean I love. I. Don't have eighty thousand images on my phone. Right but I have access to to all of those. And it just everything your entire life. Yes someone if someone says `continuing, you know this is shot that you did way back you know in November of twenty thirteen. Of Dog sitting next to so and so you could find that while standing in line at that store, right? Yeah, we're. GonNa. Take that one step further. So. Room. Classic professionals dedicate a Lotta time to key wording which for many professionals is very important like if you're an architectural tougher you need to add that. Now you mentioned picture of A. Literally this weekend I need to find a picture of a dog I'm telling you the truth. And I. Didn't keyword it but I literally went to light room and. Be Sensitive Technology I typed in dog. About four, hundred, seventy photos popped up, and then I just use my star ranking three stars in that picture was their. Second. That's another interview that we were definitely at a dive into that. That's that machine learning. Key wording and reading and all that stuff and I want I want machines could do it for me. I mean if if a machine can look at an image and see that's a tree and that's a dog and that's a cabinet human that's human with a readdress while you know. I wanted to do that and I wanna later when I feel the need to be able to go find it, say Gimme all the humans with red dresses on taking in this span of time in this geographic location. Have that data, right? Timing data well, first of all that it could ninety dog is there are pictures lying don dogs, but then I was like, okay, I'm GonNa push it so I typed in happy. All the pictures people smiling came up I was like, oh my gosh, it was amazing. and. That's the thing inter I mean. Keyboarding Yeah I hate it. I'm sorry I hate a key wording. All I think. Yeah. It was like bill the analogies like building folders in g mail or something in categorizing all your mail and dragging and dropping. You know all that went away at some point 'cause they're like the search is so robust I don't need to. Categorize myself I could just search for I need I need the email that I sent to Britney go find it boom and it pops up in responded them done. Just, to be once again, there's lots of photographers that need that keyboarding. Like I mean I've I've actually seen the keywords for like the Smithsonian. That's an impressive keyword list you know and the catalog people in the businesses in the museums in the historical societies. I mean I don't think there's a keyword for certain person. You know from fourteen o no photography back then nineteen fourteen. Drawing, then. So, there's it's it's there's tools for all different types. Of Your time in independence and most of us, you know I think are. You know and I may be speaking out of turn. But I think most of us are the people that don't necessarily need to be exhaustive key worders right? There's. Niece cases and places like you said that really makes sense to keyword because you're seeing yourself a lot of headache in you know in the future, it's you know past you looking out for future you by keyword wording properly but for the rest of us that are doing is huge in its at a certain time. Especially, if you're doing, you're on the Pro Sumer side and you're doing a lot of. iphone photography, which stores a massive amount admitted with every image in that's being sucked in and since as looking at it and doing its thing. Just, let the let the targeting computer like Star Wars let the targeting computer make the shot you don't have to. Make this up. I know you want to am sorry I shouldn't take over so. Great. But then for all photographers remember I mentioned I searched by stars. It's so important that you still go through and identify your best pictures. I didn't want to look forward seventy dog pictures can't like dogs but. And so let let the sense do what it's good at, and then I still add my. Subjective I agree I agree. But that should be I. think it will not should not that it's exotic. You know it should be a but I think since they do all that crazy stuff in the background and you as the human are doing this objective of I like this one this one, this one, this one this one that you know you know what but it yeah. But it can do the lifting of okay. That's a landscape. That's a beach scene. That's a dog that's a cat all that stuff it can do that but then you could say, yes, show me all my favorites that have dogs on the beach and then it should be. Still you and give you a list of shots like that. So we could we could geek out on this forever Katrina. Really I. WanNA I WANNA. Lose your. Before we run out of time I wanNA, talk about the the adobe Max side of things we're talking about innovations. Currently, in light room, I know we can't talk about things that aren't released or anything like that have been spoken about but. From an educational standpoint and for photographers that are looking to get to the next level with their photography and they're looking at Max's okay. What's next? Am I going to get all this cool stuff in light room is photoshop now going to you know make me levitated automatically like What can we expect from a high level at Max and terms of education and? Inspiration. Now absolutely. So we can't talk about any of the releases, a specific products. But we definitely have so much content for both innovation as well as learning. So for innovation, we have a variety of fantastic luminary speakers. We have I'm going to kind of give out a preview a little bit because we're we're still in announcing mints but obviously, we've already announced that Annie, Liebowitz, a speaking but also seliger and at swoops, and then we have a variety of other filmmakers and artists. So Kiana reeves. Avenue Verde Tyler. The Creator. COMEDIANS like Chelsea handler. Nick. Mun Stanley Tucci we have common like there are so many great speakers this year it is incredible and that is the one pause an additional positive of making it virtual because more people are available and they're more open to sharing their learning in their inspirations. So we have a variety of conversations Some are just going to talk and talk about their journey or something new that they're working on. So absolutely all of the photographers regardless of who some of these luminary speakers are. They'll learn something you know incredible from one. and. Then we have a specific photography track that will really cover bull everywhere from beginner to advanced. Type of learning. Catrine is doing her own session in labs. So she could probably talk about that a little bit but we have so much to offer from both traditional sessions, which will be thirty minutes and we'll have live q. chat with some of the other attendees, and then we will also have ads which will be cut down into a smaller three. Session increments so that it's more con-. Consumable for people who maybe they don't have a whole day to dedicate to Max but that content will live on demand after and they really can take the time to learn when it's best for them. That's great. Those great. That's what I wanted to segue into. Just, a day in the life, right so this is all new in a lot of people are doing. You know zoom based conferences and I know adobe has their own platform for for distance learning and video conferencing and all that. What does it look like in the on a lake firm for someone? That is like okay I've been to Max before I have no idea what to expect for this version of Max. Speak to those people what what is it gonNa feel like when they actually show up at the event? Yes. So I'm just going to talk a little bit about pre event because I think that's really important to get the most out of your experienced during the event We absolutely recommend that everyone register ahead of time and the great thing about Max this year it's completely free. It's free. To everyone. So it's a really quick registration, Max, DOT ADOBE DOT com, and then you have the opportunity to create your custom agenda and schedule the sessions that make the most sense just for your own personal time or what interests you during the event though we kick off on Tuesday October twentieth at nine. Am Pacific with our opening Keno and that is traditionally wear our CEO Shenton Ryan. And Scott Belsky will really talk about what our vision is for adobe, some of the new innovations and the product releases where the roadmap is going as well as some really great demos. So people like Terry White who always have like such innovative wonderful sessions and demos it's going to be super exciting. There's also a couple of things in the keynote that account announced but just know that it's definitely going to be a one of a kind experience like only adobe can do, and then after the keynote on on that first day it, it's literally fifty six hours of content throughout the next three days and it will go around the clock and around the world. So for eight hours, we will have North America's specific content which will feature some of those luminary speakers like I talked about before. So Annie Liebowitz and Marc Seliger. Russell Brown any of you know some of the other filmmaker type celebrity speakers, and so for eight hours, we have a variety of that and then we will move into the APEC region and APEC will have its own keynote and its own set of sessions, and then Japan, will follow and then we will finish the first twenty four hours with a mea and MEA will have a whole additional eight hours, and then after the first day, we come back to North America and we kick off sneaks, which is where we show some of the latest innovations coming out of adobe labs and the host this year. Or the CO hosts will be Chelsea handler. So it really is exciting, and then we do it for a whole other day until we eventually got through the three days. So we no matter what time zone you're in. There will always be fresh content for you to view, and then everything is on demand. So if there is a session that was taking place in another time zone that you couldn't make. Everything. On demand for those three days. One thing to note that is a lot of the. Luminary speakers in the celebrity speakers. So someone like Annie Liebowitz, shepherd, ferry naomie Harris. Stanley Tucci, like their content will only be available for the three days of Max. So that's really important and that's what also puts the event apart from. Just like an in person experience, there's only certain things you can get in person. This is some of the content you can only get through the virtual experience, but all of the sessions and the labs and even a good bulk of that fifty six our content will still be on demand. So it is very important to schedule your time ahead of time to maximize make sure you see some of those sessions from the creative luminaries that are important to you, and then if there are other sessions in labs, you WanNa take post event, it will be on demand. That's fantastic and just just to be clear. So the the win this event is happening it's is there an interactive component where I go to a session and I can engage in Chad and that kind of thing or is it more of a a one too many Webinar type type presentation? No yes. So there absolutely is a lot of engagement happening across the event in a in a variety of different areas. So from the session perspective for all of the individual sessions in labs, we will have live chat when the session premiers. So let's say from ten am to ten thirty. That's when the first session premiers there will be live chat with all of the attendees who are registered. So that's really exciting. When it's on demand there won't be that chat component, but we also have a lot of engage areas throughout the event. So we will have creative challenges, art collaborations, a lot of other really fun on demand content like art walks you can view different cities from around the world and see some of the great street art that they have. There will also be co career center. So we know right now is a really hard time for creatives if you're looking for tips on where to take your career or you know we're also featuring podcast so that you can get additional types of education. A lot of hands on creative workshops as well. So ways that you can step away from the computer over the course of those three days will provide any kind of supply list. So you can create something you know on your own through some of the instructions. There are just so many other ways of engaging with really unique creative content, and then on the networking side, we also have some. Different. kind of streaming activities like birds of a feather where you can join other networking groups of like minded creatives in topics. So if you WanNa talk about light room, there is a session that you can. You could join potentially, and then we also will have the meet the teams, which is the expert, the product experts. So each of the products experts will also lead a session where you can ask questions and learn more behind the scenes on what's happening with some of the product teams. So cool It so that that's like. Yeah, that's a lot. So and I'm glad you said a lot of that's going to be available on demand after you now and I, it's really interesting. I was wondering how you were going to you adobe slash you. We're going to handle the you know the the question of you know, why do I need to attend the live? You know I'll just let them run and then just go watch everything later at my leisure over the next year or so. But it's really important that you go to the live because there's certain content. That's GONNA be only available to people that show up to the live so that it's really interesting like I said, you guys are leading the charge because a lot of people will everyone really is trying to figure this stuff out. You know what's the best way? What's what's best way to deliver a world-class virtual experience? That's not a over just doing this because we Had to let's just try to repackage what we're already doing a virtual way and you know go from there and sounds like adobe leaning into it and trying to build the best conference using you know the the tools to deliver this content to the world. So gracious it looks like it sounds like it's going to be cool You answered one question that I had because I was gonna I was GonNa put you on the hot seat. Britney in tried to lobby to have Russell Brown present. The event sounds like he's already going to representing one of my favorite presenters of all time and favorite educators of all time is the. Science Guy Photography. I'm excited for that for that. Well cool. So congratulations to above the it sounds like. As usual ws firing on all cylinders with all his stuff. I WANNA I wanna end with just kind of get an idea for where people should go just to engage on both sides. So could trend you know on the on the education side of the world and kind of getting people getting their brain around. Light Room. Like photographer, just like I, want adobe as my operating system for my creative world I want to make sure that I'm engaging and my operating system is optimized optimized as possible. Where do they go to get to get to that level so that there you know pro on all this stuff Well, there's there's lots of light resources on the adobe website. that. I go to also because I need to look things up. Of course. You know. Albert Einstein said you don't need to know everything. You just have to know where to look it up like. That I live by that. Thank me. And so it's like a great example of it is. When a new feature is released I love the blog posts that like Julianne Cost Rights and for example, last year. The new texture slider was included in a light room and Max went W. E. N. D.. He put up a blog post because he like invented it and then worked on it. It's like nine or ten pages and it's written. So like non engineer people can understand it. So you know I would definitely turn Julianne the Adobe website and Ben if you WANNA learn how to use light room specific develop your images in the light room APP. There's over five hundred oriels built into the APP. You actually work along with you don't just watch. You have to move the sliders and the teachers walk you through all steps and it's really interesting. To see how people are learning by doing. Because you know if you. Able Katrina inside the mobile APP on the. Lighter desktop or your tablet on the phone. So It's amazing. and. The thing is I try to avoid youtube because I always end up watching. Videos of DACHSHUND's just great but. Doesn't help me understand clarity come. Don't don't get close to that cat black hole looking at. Exactly Now that's That's they learning. There's also something brand new. That was just released June the user that users can now. They're light room edits in the discovery files, and we can see now how everybody is processing their. And it's so interesting I go every single day a few times day to see what the community is showing contributing. I can see how people process images and you can download a preset from that edit. Really so you can you can watch them step through the edit and then up to take the preset of what they did and apply that to your own images in tweak it from there and keep, and I'm like, Oh, I'm like I've collected every black and white preset there is. A. Little Bit. About this stuff like this, the whole creative world is just you know this one of the things I enjoy photography and I preach this all the time you know photography for me is you know it appeals to the Nerd Geek side of me with the technology that appeals. To The science side you know with portraiture appeals to the technology or the the psychology side of your brain like interacting with people in eliciting the right expressions, the social side with the sharing and giving feedback and just you know it's all that stuff together in Adobe Adobe is obviously the operating system for a lot of people for their creative world. So On all that Britney, I WANNA I WANNA end with you on this this Max conferences coming up it's right around the corner and it sounds like it's Before we did this call, I had no idea how big it was in the extent that you you guys are going through to make this a world class event. We you know for the people that are as excited I as I am about attending, what do they do now what's the next steps for them? So you definitely go to Max DOT ADOBE DOT COM and learn more about what we're offering and just register again it's completely free it's only A few steps to register it's really quick and then go in and start looking at some of the sessions that were offering and just start to schedule a a couple you know if it doesn't work for your schedule during the actual event, it's still going to be there but learn as much as you can pre event so that you can really have the most enriching and custom experience during the event. So maxine W, DOT COM register for free. Love it love it. That's crazy idea. It was going to be free because it was what was the what was the ticket price last year years gone by I believe it's around us thousand to two thousand. Roughly. Yeah. So we're we're so thrilled that we can offer this to our entire community in the world. Congratulations congratulations to both of you again for all the work that you do. Much successes on the event Katrina and much successes on education and engagement side of the world, and hopefully, we'll be able to touch base after the event and do kind of A. How did it go type discuss you. Absolutely, and we want all of your feedback. So you definitely have to make sure you attend sessions. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. All right. Thanks for your time today both you guys and we'll see you next time.

Adobe Light Room Max Max Britney cloud macworld Katrina Stanley Tucci Katrina Frederik van Johnson Annie Liebowitz Max Twenty twenty Photoshop Mac Katrina iceman official Brittany Content Creator
Tarrare: The Hungriest Man in History

Everything Everywhere Daily

12:26 min | 2 months ago

Tarrare: The Hungriest Man in History

"Have you ever been really full after meal like really really full. Well could you imagine eating and never feeling full like going to an all you can eat fish restaurant and then getting kicked out for eating too much fish and going fishing so you can eat more fish while there was one frenchman who could never be satiated and the results of his condition were astonishing. Learn more about tara and his medical condition which thankfully has never been seen sense on this episode of everything everywhere daily. This episode is sponsored by master class. If you've ever wanted to learn something new wouldn't you wanna learn it from the very best people in their field. Masterclass is exactly that online courses where you can learn from the very top people in the world. Learn how to cook from gordon. Ramsay or learn science from tyson. Photography from annie liebowitz filmmaking from spike lee magic from penn and teller in tennis from serena williams and that list only scratches the surface. You can start learning from the world's best for only fifteen dollars per month. Just go to everything dash everywhere dot com slash masterclass or click on the link in the show notes. I've never had to put a disclaimer at the start of a show before. But i feel like i should for this one. There is no explicit language coming nor is there anything suggestive or any adult themes however much of what i'm going to be talking about is pretty gross. Thank god pale. Kids times ten level of disgusting so i don't want any emails about how this episode was gross. And you're gonna stop listening to the show. This is history people and sometimes history is gross so having given fair warning. Let me introduce tara. He was born sometime around. Seventeen seventy two somewhere around. Leon france we know next nothing about his origin including his real name. We don't know if tara was his real name or stage name we do however know that he existed due to the extensive amount written about him during his lifetime. He grew up a pretty normal kid as far as we can tell however once he had puberty he developed an appetite by this. I don't mean he ate for meals a day or he had second or third helpings at dinner. By this i mean. He ate constantly and eight an astonishing amount of food. By the time he was seventeen years old he could eat his entire body weight worth of food in a single day and he only weighed one hundred pounds or forty five kilograms actually rather skinny for a seventeen year old boy in a single day he could eat a quarter of a cow all by himself very quickly after developing this appetite. His parents kicked him out of the house. The late eighteenth century was a time when getting enough calories was still a big issue for most people funding. This consumption would have bankrupted. Almost anyone you left home and basically became a homeless vagrant. He would beg for food. Scrounge up anything and everything he could eat and eventually fell in with a group of traveling thieves he began to do street performances where he would eat anything which people would give him. You would devour entire bag of apples in minutes sometimes swallowing them whole while he was performing and grabbing the attention of the crowd. His compatriots would be pickpocketing. The crowd while they weren't paying attention. In addition to eating food he would swallow stones corks in anything else which the audience gave him including live. Animals eventually set off on his own as a street performer in paris. Doing the same routine mostly so he could get as much food as possible however his direction changed in seventeen. Ninety two the french revolution. Ed started in. Its neighbors formed an alliance and had gone to war against france. It was known as the war of the first coalition at the age of twenty tara decided to join the army service country. It's this period where we know most about iran because the observations of him were so well documented in the army. He had a difficult time because he was only given a single soldier's ration of food per day. He began doing favors for everyone. He could to get their food or their leftovers. He would scavenge the dung heaps and garbage pits and camp looking for food. He was so lethargic and listless that he was finally sent to a french military hospital observations here too. He began scrounging around the garbage for food as well as taking food from other patients there. He encountered pierre-francois. Percy the head surgeon of the hospital who became fascinated by his case. He and other doctors started subjecting tara to experiments. The first assigned him quadruple rations which he devoured with no problem to put this into perspective. This would be the equivalent of twelve regular meals per day event. Hit a meal prepared for fifteen people to see if there was a limit to what he could consume in one sitting consumed all the food laid out and then some early fell asleep. Then the experiment started to get weirder and remember my warning at the start of the show. He was given a live cat and he torn to the cat with his teeth. And disemboweled it. He sucked out all of the blood out of the cat and then consumed everything other than the bones. A half an hour later he coughed up the hair and the for as if he was a bird of prey he did the same thing with a puppy grown eel he crushed the skull of the deal with his teeth and then swallowed the entire. You'll hole and here. I should probably describe the man himself from account. If you saw him on the street you probably wouldn't notice anything different about him at first however he had an extremely large mouth. His cheeks were incredible flaps of skin and he could supposedly put twelve apples or eggs in his mouth at one time. Go take out a dozen eggs and try to stick them all in your mouth. That's a big mouth. While he looked normal under his shirt he had an incredible layer of sagging skin around his midsection. He had so much loose skin he could supposedly wrap it around himself. Like a belt. It came from the fact that when he ate so much his stomach would expand like a balloon even if he did look normal. There was one thing about him which everyone would have noticed almost immediately before you even saw him his smell. He was described as being so smelly that quote to such a degree that he could not be endured within the distance of twenty paces unquote. After he ate he smelled even worse. He was constantly sweating and he had an incredibly high temperature. Vapors rising off his body were said to be visible. It was as if he was a real life. Pig pen from the peanuts cartoon and the stink lines drawn around him where real and he was also constantly belching and farting. I once encountered a man like this in bulgaria. He smelled like an ammonia truck crashed into a sewage treatment plant. He was literally kicked off the bus. I was on by the driver because he smelled so bad. True story. now you are also probably wondering that if you eat that much food it has to go somewhere well. He was reported to suffer from chronic diarrhea which was quote feted beyond all conception unquote at this point. He might have been a medical curiosity but he was hardly fit for military service however the higher ups thought that he may be of use. They thought he might be the perfect person to serve as a currier of secret messages he was given a small box containing a message which he swallowed. Two days later he passed the box and the message was still intact with the experiment to success. A demonstration was performed for a group of generals from the army of the rhine on the front with germany. He swallowed another box for the generals and then as a reward. He was given a wheelbarrow full of raw. Cow's lungs and liver which weighed thirty pounds or fourteen kilograms. He ate the entire wheelbarrow full of oval in front of the generals. His first mission was to get a message to a colonel which was imprisoned behind enemy lines. It turns out that tara was a horrible spy was captured. Almost immediately as he stinks to high heaven end didn't speak any german then once captured almost immediately told them everything. The germans keenum tool the train and waited when he finally passed the box. The message said nothing other than for the colonel to notify them if he actually received the message. The german set up a mock execution where they marched him to the gallows only to give him a reprieve at the last minute then sent him back to france probably because they felt sorry for the guy back in france he returned to the hospital. They tried to find something which would cure him but nothing worked. He would sneak out to eat the waste. Outside of butcher shops he would fight with dogs in the street for dead animals in the hospital and remember. I warned you. He was caught drinking the blood from patients who had received bloodlettings which was still a thing in the late eighteenth century. He was also caught consuming. Cadavers in the hospital morgue from the hospital when a fourteen month old baby disappeared. There was no hard evidence but toronto was the chief suspect and no one would bother to defend him anymore. What happened to him. The next several years is unknown however in seventeen ninety six. He showed up at a hospital in versailles. He was sick and thought it was because of a gold fork had swallowed two years earlier the doctors however diagnosed him with burke yellow a month later he passed at the age of twenty six after his death his body not surprisingly began to decompose rapidly. An autopsy was performed to try to get some insight as to how he was able to do what he did. The first thing that doctors found is that when his mouth is opened you could see straight into his stomach. His gullet was that wide. His stomach was enormous and took up almost half of his abdominal cavity. You likewise had an enlarged liver and gallbladder is stomach was also filled with pus ulcers which probably came from many of the foreign objects which he swallowed over the years in the over two hundred years since his death there has never been another medical case. Tara there have been other people with large appetites but one who is capable of consuming food. It would be reasonable to be suspicious about this story but for the fact that there were so many eye. Witnesses and that was documented by reputable doctors of the era. Modern notchers suspect. The tara probably had some condition with his thyroid hypothalamus or magdala. This can affect appetite as well as body temperature and metabolism. His stomach skin and cheeks were probably extended due to years of constant expansion from eating so much to this day. Terrar- remains the only person who if they said they were so hungry they could eat a horse could actually back up their claim associate producer of everything everywhere daily. Is thor thomsen. Today's five star review comes from listener. Happy otter from apple podcasts. They write a great short. Listen and learn this. Podcast has distilled down very interesting topics from all over the world into a relevant and captivating. Podcast a too good to miss podcast. Well thank you very much happier. Doing the research is the interesting part of the show. and after three hundred twenty episodes. I think i'm getting the hang of it. I would also like to give a big thank you to everyone who listens. The show recently passed the half million download mark. Hopefully if the show can keep growing and gaining listeners. i'll be able to add some new features to the show which i have planned kinda looks like a baby young man. I'm gonna eat bigger than you hiring a food chain in my bella mike. You're lucky we mind. Could i have a heart doctor. Let me make you a deal. All right you get the more to keep your money. And i'll get your baby right. Updated that baby back baby back. Maybe baby back ribs Back back back dated. I dated really. Excuse me geely aby that.

tara annie liebowitz spike lee magic Leon france army serena williams Ramsay tyson france penn gordon Cow's lungs and liver tennis francois keenum
Justin Ervin

Pretty Big Deal with Ashley Graham

30:15 min | 1 year ago

Justin Ervin

"As always this episode is sponsored by my Go-to stop for all things make up. Revlon's live boldly everyone. It's actually Graham and this is pretty big deal. The show were confidences key. Every episode I gets picked the brains of brilliant brilliant inspiring and honest friends new and old about their passions. And what makes them a pretty big deal. Well everybody. I've got some pretty big news today. My I- handsome. Lovely amazing husband just an urban is joining us on pretty big deal I love you you how are you good. How are you I mean I know how you are just so you five minutes ago I thank you for being on pretty big deal? So your first isn't isn't it. It is a Europe. I welcome to twenty twenty. I have to use notes throughout this whole thing because as you know now as you know as all of you know Mommy Brain Israel. How often have I been writing down because I will forget every fifteen to twenty minutes? I kind of have have like a notepad in my bra. It's like there's a Milky Bra. There's invoking boob and there's a notepad not exactly. We are so excited for for all of you to meet baby urban. He's a little bit busy right now. napping pooping and feeding currently napping. Thank Goodness Donohoe. Oh Hi speeding without you though. That's impressive meets seamless. Yeah there you go. You Got Jokes Kit. So we're GonNa meet baby urban a little bit later I but before baby urban got here. We ended the year with a very exceptional vogue cover. Wouldn't experience I'm so kind of freaking out. Really how could you not be. It was such a moment that I am still pinching myself when I see the cover. Can you grab that can cover. Wait turn to your pages. Turn to our pages. Oh it is conveniently marks I mean this is such a monumental moment in my in my career for our family because it's almost like a solo cover funny you're always talking about affirmations envisions and everything in in one of your visions that you have on the board for a long time was a vote cover. It was on my vision board. And Wow and how cool to be doing it but to actually see. It's really something else it is but I so you're really private an incredibly incredibly private person. Nothing's shanks but what made you WANNA do. This spread with me. Well just to be able to support you and be right there every step of the way with ticking off the box one of the major accomplishments that you wanted to achieve not just you solo shows specifically because does you were carrying our son so it only makes sense for daddy to be there to lose. It was great. It was like this huge dream come true and to be shot by Annie Liebowitz an in and he was great. Oh she was Finci so much fun to you had fun with. She's great in between your pushups. I saw you guys going off and having little conversations. Look you can't just gloss over the PUSHUPS. If you know you're going to be invoked then you do everything you can to prepare so push out. So I was doing pushups. Every ten fifteen minutes talking to her about when you walk off with her just nerdy stuff like like whether she prefers strobes versus continuous. Light if she you know all the nerdy stuff that you get into just being in the industry and being a filmmaker you sort of always curious about the process where the people but to be able to ask her in person and for her to be into. She was great. Well you saw our conversation in the beginning. I had to so as you can see my on my my boobs on the cover you can see my nipples looney. Yes but my my boobs kind of hang lower than what they are so we ended up having to make make this bra that had my nipples hanging out. Because we wanted to simulate the fact that I was naked underneath. Yeah Yeah but we needed to be high and lifted so we just cut this out. I had my nipples liberties yes and so it had to keep lifting my dress like okay Anne do do you like this bra with these nipples and then I'd have to put it back. She can you pull that one over and pull out one up and over the show so you can actually see this this nipple right here is kind of drifting over and down. I had to keep lifting them but how fun. Though 'cause it was fine behind the scenes for this kind of thing is really interesting thing to. I'll always keep this bra as my vote. Cover brought you should have signed it so when you're pregnant it's like you get all all this unsolicited advice. And one of the I think one of the best pieces of advice that I had gotten was that I needed to make pregnant France and what I needed to build community. My stylist told me that you told me that. And I'm so glad that I did that. And then also something else that I found out for myself. It wasn't necessarily advice but it was kind of like a door had been opened was to go to home births round. And I'm so glad that I kind of was was just soaking and so much information but only only only using exactly what was working for me. Well it was interesting because just watching coaching you. In the beginning of of the pregnancy and your first trimester there was a lot of internalizing. You were doing there was a lot of processing just sort of trying to understand who you were now. As far as the vice goes for you. It was important for me to see you do that. Because of how internalize you weren't closed off your. Yeah so I'm so glad that I made twelve pregnant friends. I don't know where they came from the Internet. The I made friends on Wgn but then it was friends. What advice were you given through this pregnancy? It's great timing because a couple of my really close friends are also young fathers. Yeah so I think you know maybe the way that. Hey Eric. Hey Joey Joey Christian. Jeez I don't want anybody jar jar moon Chris Chris okay. That's enough but no it's good though because you had twelve pregnant it women We just named at least at least six. You know fathers fathers so it was great to have that network so to speak because you know it's hard for adults in general with specific sort of like have these fast bonds if you haven't gone through something together but even apart from my close friends that have been other people lars. Everybody who's like a young father is always wanting to give this. Hey man you know just be aware because this might happen. That might happen. Put the diaper on top when you change. Because they'll find themselves annual so little tidbits that have been really cool. But I think apart from all the unsolicited advice. Welcome unwelcome the thing that we really wanted to make sure we did together was to agree and make pack to still be us. Yes because that's one of the things that we knew would evolve with his arrival. But that's that's also the foundation for him growing in developing in a healthy way for us to remain intact and so we both at various times of the pregnancy when it was just like man. Yeah it's about to be three of us. Yours came a lot later but I was thinking about it the entire time. Yeah I'll I'll share that story with all of you in a minute. My my body was just like constantly changing and and I'm glad that I had the support system of the other women because I can go to you as much as I want like baby. I'm feeling like this. I feel oh crazy. I feel like My emotions are skyrocketing. My Body is changing and my body was changing and I had already gone through at seventeen seventeen. Eighteen nineteen figuring out what affirmations were figuring out how to block the haters how to have agency over my own my own body but now boom. I'm pregnant and and I can't eat me. I feel a little bit wild like in my in my in my spirit. I just felt like I don't know who I am. Agency over your bodies interesting because all those things that you're talking about in the past prior to getting pregnant was you taking control of having agencies you could under under your own terms but you know at this point you're carrying in ingesting taking care of our son inside of you. Well that's what it felt like. An alien was taking over for but it. I knew that there was life inside of me. The moment that everything started changing like I immediately knew. Oh my gosh. I'm growing doing a human but that human it didn't click for me until like you feel the kicks and you feel the wiggles and you see this ultrasound art. Yeah that later it was like it's okay that your body is changing. But I had to go back to the basics and I had to do a lot of like thank God you were there to listen. Thank God I had my I twelve pregnant friends to also just yet but even my mom and your mom were like Oh. I didn't feel like that everything was fine. Just a memory with thirty something. Exactly exactly they. They're not as connected in the like. Oh this is what I went through. It was like oh you'll be fine. I feel those generations of women are like kind of brush it off. That's why I'm glad I had friends my the age but I had to go back to the basics of what affirmations were and how how my words have power for my future and for my current state tamp for him and you know what you say in which you feel. Genetics would absolutely passed down in get within his spirit in his system. Too So You maintaining that positive perspective is really important for me because of your own mental and emotional wellbeing but also what you are indoctrinating into him in Utah but it was hard art did it but it was really funny. I thought that you would. You know it's funny. We were taking pictures together on our camera of developmental processes. GM bigger and there were moments where you would wake up. Let's say like in the first trimester man. I've gotten big. I was not that we look back on the floor the end toward the ooh. I thought I was showing showing but I think it was at the end of my third trimester. I finally was like okay. I'm going to embrace this. I don't don't have any clothes that fit but I'll just want my way down the Brooklyn Bridge big active. I've just say now though that I gave birth and I did it naturally and I felt everything everything I feel like. There's nothing I can't do like there's nothing that could come my way where I say. Oh that's too hard right. I can't handle that. I went through laboring for six hours. Naturally it'd be specific. You had a really natural child birth At home at home right there in a big old pool. Don't worry it was on the carpet. All the way furniture remain. It's still white. It's still white but I have to say going through that experience going through the hardship of my body changing having to go back back to what I practice what I preach and then going through the invincible laboring birth experience that I did and now to be able to stand Tall Hall and say wow I did it. I'm so proud of myself and I want other women to feel that exact feeling of being invincible. It's something that I mean. I I told you right afterward. I told you you know in the days subsequent i. I'm so proud of you like the way you handle that and the way you did that was just a testament was icing sitting on the cake to. How will you prepared in advance through working out through eating well through staying active taking the stairs doing yoga through everything that you did to prepare for? The the biggest work out of your life was that it was that it was completely you going through this Odyssey. That was painful to watch because of how much pain you're in painful to live in. Yeah but on the other side of like whoa she really did this. It was. It was a big decision for for for me to make and you are really great in just letting me make up my mind on my own. You were incredibly supportive. But I think having made the decision to have have the birth here at our house gave me so much clarity that for me. I knew that if I was in the hospital because you know how much I hate the hospital if I would have had the birth at the hospital I think anxiety would have been through the roof but because I was here the lights were dim. It was a chill environment. I got to beat whatever food I wanted to. I could be in bed. I could be in the pool while we were in control and the last thing that I wanted to end so as far as doing the home birth and coming to that that decision Asian I mean we both have somewhat of a crunchy side to us deep down underneath all of this Glam. There's a there's a little bit of Granola really big Granola girl in there but just coming to the realization to all these processes of elimination was great. Because it was almost like a decision made for us already like it just felt so comfortable and knowing that you knowing you you would have been freaking out every moment in a hospital bed but when we were here in the home in with everything within in Arkansas everything to your comfort everything you know set up for your ease. Mind and ease of body was the best decision. Yeah and then to go straight from the pool to the bed with our son just told him what a bond would a time. I know that was so special. Yeah Yeah Okay but hold on. I WanNa ask you a question because everybody keeps asking me like. Oh how are your nine minds and like what are your feelings. And how is your birth. But they don't ever ask the men that how was the nine and months for you. It was a trip. It was a real trip But it was great because throughout all of your ups and downs more ups and downs. But actually the third trimester I think was the most fun for me for you because you having the most fun you were now finally embracing this sphere in front of me is actually child growing inside of me embracing that US talking to him US feeling the kicks hearing the hiccups. All those kinds of things that happened in those later stages we're really fun and just to have you get into that space where you're now enjoying it. We're talking to him. We're singing him. That was just. It's really special did you. Did you have any concerns. Walk into the home verse. Zero no concerns whatsoever. I didn't have any either because at the end of the day. And we talked about this. When it's your time you have the baby? Whenever wherever back of a cat home birth the lobby lobby? Baby the lobby wherever it may it. 'cause that's what you're designed to do and it's just so impressive to see you deliver him here in the home. The way you'd plan the way you do would make you feel most comfortable. Put me a totally. So whether you're here Bali Kenya Japan Lord Nebraska or Brooklyn New York Brooklyn New York. You did you wish you had to do. And it was great. It was perfect for us so then January Dude January four th now for eleven see look at that see. The due date doesn't even matter anymore. The distant past now would like one eleven. Twenty twenty was godson it was so the date rolls around and we get the advice iced to go on a date due date. Yes and that's exactly what we did Except for we went on a trip. Very Ashley Ashley Ingest. In style we suck away. Do a steak ation. We're hitting the road. We hit the road. We went to SAG harbor three and a half hour drive with traffic. We told no no one except for my assistant. And because we didn't end the midwives told them it while they were encouraging of it. Yeah there's no sign of him coming now no sign no contraction then like he barely fallen down it was all of the stuff so they said the majority of first time mothers Go past their due date Liam especially boys choice. They like to cook a little longer they. That's what they kept saying. Boys like to stay in there with others. You were two weeks late two weeks. Pass my duty baby. Urban was just a weekly so we it went away and we did sound baths and we did meditation and it was released a dinner. It was really a time for us to connect and I think that in that moment moment for us to connect which was so it was so peaceful I had a moment where I just started sobbing and I went straight my face in your neck back and I was like I told you. I don't want this to change. I still want you and me because you and me I mean. We're a solid foundation and Dan were bringing a baby in and we WANNA give him a continuous solid foundation. And I just I wanted to say that to you because because you're so special to me and he's so special to me and I hadn't even met him yet. Yeah I think that you were really envisioning the actual change. Yeah I really was. It was the fact that it wasn't just Jamie. It's now jenny plus. Yeah so I think it's so funny though because I've been saying all along baby you know that things are going to be things is it gonna be different. It's fine it's fine it's fine. It's fine I gotta go to another putting it off putting it off putting it off then in those quiet moments that week before reality reality smacked you right in the face it did. I'm like I've been telling you this. I'm so glad I'm so glad. So then we got back on like Thursday and the next morning Saturday early morning January eighteenth knock knock knock contraction started at five. Am and what did you wake up to moaning do it do it do it. You do away better but the thing is you can't do my mouth come out. It's been nine Komo come on do my mouth. It hasn't been ninety one day of mony that way. That's a difference how this is a very specific Sam that there was not the Sushi coming back to haunt you. There wasn't baby uh-huh and it wasn't it wasn't a nice mode and it was like a no. This was cheered like it was it was advocating hills so then seven. AM rolls around. And I'm like just in wake up and I was. I kind of feeling that I knew I felt. He was Braxton Hicks. But I also felt like you've got to get the house together. Mary poppins showed up. That's immigrated for the baby which wasn't me it was you. Yeah I mean you know you put me to work immediately. Okay this that and the other but I'm thinking the whole time I was like Zell this clean. That doesn't matter because all of it's going to be shoved out of the way for when the midwives conwy blow up the pool all that kind of stuff yes so then. We knew that we wanted to go to breakfast. And so we ended up going to breakfast at nine. AM another two hours. went out a plan to execute And I had to contractions through breakfast and I would turn myself away from the the whole breakfast area and I'm really Sh- and I would come back and I'll be like okay pancakes delicious and I mean I. I wasn't it feeling like in between the contractions but I still that the so the midwives it says clearly there was going to be a point where you can still have conversation. You still be joking you you can still have. And we were at that stage but then after you got back cleansed. I climbed five five flights of stairs sideways because midwives told me that if I went upstairs stairs sideways it would help open up my hips. So anytime I saw stairs I was like sideways. Find ways. Open up the hips. Sure enough. I get upstairs change. Change my clothes and T- yoga because I had a yoga class. That's not the surprising part. The surprising part to most people will be the fact that you didn't cancel the class because you're in labor you know. That's the part that's the part. That's the very Ashley Part. I wanted to still go to yoga because I felt like I do a yoga session before he came so that way I could be really open. Loose you're stick into the plan. So what happens fifteen minutes into yoga. My water breaks and it sounded like a little like like balloon loon popping but not as loud like inside look inside built the popper and my pants soaking wet. I dribbled a little bit on the Yoga Mat. And next thing you you wanted to you want to satisfy your curiosity because you heard that it's not like P.. Heard that it was like sort of a musty smell so after I was crying through the contraction because it was my first like hardcore hardcore contraction. I looked at you and they're still tears in my eyes and I said can you smell it. Is it musty. You were like Ashley. Stir so yeah sorry. Sorry sorry I asked you know prominent do Cleaned up our yoga mad and we brought it back upstairs. I got in the shower. Midwives Rides Dula game. Everybody started everybody started setting up five and a half hours later. Were in the pool. It's you me one midwife and the Dula and I'm on my my back in the pool and my knees are up and I keep screaming. I mean there was action the entire time multi moving around the whole apartment. But this is this moment I was like I could feel his head in between my legs. I mean I physically could and that the coloring afire right Oh aw the ring of Fire Burr and I was seeing seeing you know I was saying it burns aren't screaming and then I'm on. I'm on my back with my legs up. My feet are in your stomach. And I'm pushing and I and I said progress and you looked at me with tears in your eyes and you said baby I can see his head. Oh I don't WANNA cry. It was so incredible. Because we're all like I said before all that effort and now his arrival is imminent and then at one point they even said to. You put your hand and you can feel him. I know and seeing you with tears in your eyes and saying I can see his head gave me so much strength. Just push him out and I really needed that Revlon doesn't run when you cry. It doesn't ah you did great and then a moment later among literally a moment later later we sat back he was on my chest and he was looking you in the eyes. I looked at you looked at me. I looked at him. He's looking back at me and he is like He. I recognized him we he there's like he recognized us because he didn't he wasn't loud. He wasn't screaming. He wasn't in. You know in distress anything he just you know the normal sort of crime but then we also have had that moment was like uh-huh we're family we're family and I said to you where family forever. Now I think he's having to bring out our senator. Yeah we go get him. Okay all right well just grabbing the baby. I just WanNa take a minute to let you know about my new favorite product especially postpartum mom life and it's from from free to mom. I am so obsessed with these amazing. Mommy Oh did you get these amazing. Mommy me postpartum diapers. I mean they're underwear but I like to call them diapers because a change my diaper than I change his diaper and they're amazing. It feels like nothing Kabuki on the parts that are still hurting. And they've got so many products for Moms for postpartum there's tons of stuff for newborns but not a lot for mommy's so go to freedom mom dot com where you can find out even more info. God Mommy Oh he's up all right worlds meet. I think you'd Giovanni Herman so all so take him because he would be a big boy. Who Oh I love you And so here's Isaac here. He is Isaac Minna. Lick Giovanni Irvine and now let's explain everything. Because Isaac you. Oh you thought of when you were in high school middle school younger. Oh yeah middle. School probably key and I my sister key and I would have discussions about. Oh one day when we have kids and Unidad so she was was always brainstorming. Names and I've rainstorm. My own name for my future son and I knew it was gonna be Isaac just leaving from then to now and metalic is we were inspired in Ethiopia. Last Christmas best friend and mentor link is the first emperor of Ethiopia also mean son of the wise and mental men like was the son of Queen of Sheba and Solomon so everything in his name was pointing to legacy. Whether it's you know Isaac with Abraham Isaac and Jacob or metalic being a Royal African roots and then Giovanni is the Italian version of John Von so our friend Anthony Lewis tossing coming out names and we were in Mafi together and he loved the name off so how how continental to have a baby named Giovanni. But it Kinda hit home for us because your grandfather's Amos Jon. My grandfather's name is John the founder of the Church that my parents Got Saved and baptized in church. Church created another legacy for us in our family but it was also Giovanni because of the nod the partial Italian roots to the half yes and then urban because Irvine is his daddy attis or family. We're family forever. I don't know about you but I can't stop staring at him What's your favorite parts about Mr Isaac as great as his call I was I have a good friend named Eric in La and he and his son. I was watching coaching them months and months ago and I was like okay got I want that I contact that bond. Yeah Eric and his son have and so with him and Jalen. They're always he's looking to I. I okay I went to sorta either island is direct contact. Isaac looks straighten my face. I look in straighten his face. And you did it right when you came out of. Mommy did my favorite lever part is after he's done feeding and he wants to have playtime conversation and he does all these different faces. I mean he's like ever changing and and it's like he wants to say something to say this you normally it's the adult makes the baby. No he's making all yeah. I feel like you're Super Dad with diapers. You've got down but nothing bothers me. I mean whether he's sneezing on me whether I'm changing diapers whether he happens to just P when when I'm switching over the the divers he has on his face yet. No here's a shot up. Shot back so he has a cat an uncanny knack for whenever he's wearing clothes the clothes he's wearing and it's such as long as the process. But whatever ever and I have to say like just waking up every two four hours in the night. I'm not tired when I wake up. I'm a little groggy and I'm like okay. It's eight thirty. He's still sleeping being and I'm like I got a boost of energy. I don't know what that is if you will you know why because you're you're abiding by that advice to sleep when he sleeps. Yeah we take a six thirty to eight thirty PM NAP. Stay up until about eleven when this when dad. He's back to work with Mommy and baby loves good. Then you get your time yeah us well. It's fun to but but then we all go to sleep and I'm waking up not as Chipper as you guys. He's Chipper for when he after he eats and after he just get takes a nap. playtime his great. What do you feel like we've seen any other in these last itunes change weeks? I know my so you are incredibly driven and not hard. But you're ready. You're stealing you're prepared ears. You know you. You are unfazed by a lot of things in business in life. And you just sort of tackled on case in point natural childbirth. Right here in the house but is is brought somebody you in terms of just cooing and singing to him. This you know poking at Evans being all maternal maternal which has been really really really sweet to watch. I love watching. You put your face in his neck when he's like a little whiny and you circling and it calms him down right away like whisper. It's your lips in your beard and just that skin-to-skin and all of a sudden he's like putty in your arms and it just makes me just. Oh I just go oh all the time. I think I'm all day long. We have fun fun. I'm so glad we got to introduce him. And I think Isaac is saying we better wrap this up. 'cause he's now he's asleep on the tit. Well I gotTa pull this thing. Aw thank you for being on. Thank you for having a baby. I love you all right. That's IT Isaac the back back to napping pooping and eating. Don't forget to subscribe to more episodes of PD. Because you are not gonna WanNa Miss Them. Eh uh-huh.

Abraham Isaac twenty twenty Europe Ashley Ashley Eric Revlon Wgn Goodness Donohoe Graham Annie Liebowitz France Brooklyn Bridge Finci Joey Joey Christian US Revlon Anne Chris Chris Ethiopia
20. Tommy Beardmore and Adam DeCarlo "Frequently Asked Questions"

Before the Break

58:36 min | 1 d ago

20. Tommy Beardmore and Adam DeCarlo "Frequently Asked Questions"

"Talk i'm tommy beard more. I'm adam decarlo and welcome to before the break. A podcast or actors by actors brought to you by all righty. We are back with another episode of before the. Break a tommy. It's been a little bit since we've recorded. We've had some life events happen so last recorded. has anything happened with you. Let's see. I got a new computer. Menu planner came in from amazon. And i got married a couple of weeks you got married. Congratulations so happy. It's amazing it's amazing. It's amazing what a it's the most incredible day best day of my life never thought i just going to be such a great guest now going forward because like i'm gonna. I'm gonna rsvp when i get an invention. I'm gonna rsvp like right then and there. When i get the email and the stress of like people do exactly Could you please let me know if you're coming to my wedding. Yep and when i buy gift i'm an click bought a mic bought on the registry. And i'm going to ask. What can i do a billion times. Whenever i go to this because i mean my my idea of what it takes to put on something completely changed and i'm just going to be a good wedding guest moving forward. Yeah it was a. It was such an amazing wedding. It was really great. Adams stood up with my brothers and and it was a beautiful beautiful day. It rained right when we wrap the ceremony to go into the reception so it was cool and yeah it was. It was wonderful and it was great. It was such an awesome day. Yeah man glad you made it out to indiana. Yeah yeah it was fun any great weekend. Any surprises from indiana. That you like just didn't expect not really to be honest. Disintegrate into ashes. What christians who it smells the gay. I've zarb well. I was there also in june. And i saw a lot of pride flags around. That was a little surprising on people's homes and stuff but that was interesting. I didn't really see a lot of like. Let's just say political paraphernalia. Like at all. I heard about a few from people but i didn't see anything but sauce. Pride flags that was great. Always wanted to eat it. A cracker barrel. Those are fucking fantastic. You love a cracker. Yeah i wouldn't try do you fucking. They gave me the check. And i was like i feel like you forgot a few things and it was. It was just so cheap. It was like it was insane here to like new york prices. I was like so you guys pay me is it was awesome. I'm glad i'm glad you had fun. Yeah it's great when you can order your food and go play checkers and wait for it. You know it's always fun. Ryan chair take a little. Yeah yeah well thank you for coming. It was awesome. It was just awesome ready to get started ready to get to work. There's a lot of good stuff happening lamps. Sure you get busy on a very thing here. I think just kind of started again with the network show so that's exciting for auditions earlier. Kinda chilled out for a little bit better now coming back so that's good lovin so yeah well. We have a really really great episode today. We're doing things a little bit differently this week instead of a guest as you know adam. We'll be answering questions so we have a lot of listeners. that are sending messages and emails. Stems that stuff Asking questions Some of them are big questions. Some of them are very simple questions. But what we wanted to do was be able to have a chance to address as many as we can So that's what this episode is going to be about Might talk about the emotional or mental elements of acting. We might to go into the audition agents. Headshots reels resumes. All that stuff. There might be some stuff that you've never heard of before might be some stuff that might repeat But we are here to kind of divulge all the information that we can to you the people who need it so So how do i know with acting is something that i wanna do. Why's my head shot not getting me in the room. How do i memorize fully and quickly. How do i book more acting roles all these questions and many more going to be answered here already. So we're going to be answering some questions today. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Let's let's start with lisa one. We've we've got questioned from from atlanta and she's asking. How do i know of acting is what i wanna do. So we've talked a couple of times on these episodes about half earned about. You really need to be in it. If you're going to do it you have to like love it. Because what you and i have both experienced. What every actor will. Experience is those challenges on the road and to get through those challenges. You have to kind of channel the real reason why you're there and if you don't have the right reasons if you're there for different reasons other than the art and the excitement and the adventure and all that good stuff it's not going to get you through. So what do you. What do you think about that. If someone's coming in saying. I kind of want to try this. What do you say i mean i to start. I would say. Go take some classes whether i don't know what age this person is. But you know if your college age and you have the opportunity at your school go take some classes. Go find a local theater that might be able to do some classes or something like that. Just get in the room and start trying it out and see. If it's something that clicks you It's something i don't know this is an a Acting isn't they get rich or famous. Or what a get quick scheme it really is a marathon not a sprint. I mean it takes a lot of years put in to meet people. Get your toes wet. Be in the right place at the right time. You know all of that stuff so it really takes a kind of marathon mentality So if it's not if you even have to ask the question maybe it's not right for you. If you could see yourself doing anything else you probably want to do that but to start i would go take some classes. There's got to be acting classes somewhere and just getting room start doing some scenes monologues working with other actors. And see if it's something that you're even remotely interested it right. But yeah i would say well said yeah. It is a patient procedure or process. I should say. I think i've always thought that if this was easy if it was easily attainable then everybody would doing it. But you know a co star could take a year to three ten. A guest star could take years a national commercial. You don't know when that's going to come and you know if you do this for say like us. What ten years. That's three thousand six hundred and fifty days of every single day showing up. That's that math is right showing up on the worst stays on the best day with theater major and you have you have to be in it for the right reasons. Endure all that time and peppered along those ten years. You're going to have those calls that say congrats you got it or booked. Tv gig you got the commercial because book your book tomorrow. That stuff does not come just every single monday. I mean. sometimes. You only get one two three bookings decent bookings a year and on those kind of slower years where things aren't happening. You have to get through it. I was on a movie called case of blue. And there's the soap. Just a lot of broadway stevens connector. And i think we mentioned on an episode. He said i was coming to him for guidance. I had a couple of years kind of drought. And he said he said. How long has it been. It's been a couple years of kind of down word spiral and he's like. Oh yeah well mine lasted eight years. He said at my wife told me. I had to get another job. I mean to me. I said to myself okay. That's that's everybody. Everybody has these ups and downs. And how did he get through that eight years. Well he loved what he did. Ed and it sought him through and boom. He starts to work again because he's a new developmental stage new character new role. Now that he can he can be and So it does take time you have to be in it for the right reasons so you have to ask yourself your why. Why am i doing this. You know for you. Adam was probably a know. Artistically fulfilling and it was It was emotionally and mentally stimulating and enjoyable There are some people that there are deeper things going on like you know There's some mental things that i refused to get a normal job. I just. I don't see how that would benefit me in bowing down the society. I i have an adventurous life. And that kind of falls into the job description of being an actor of not knowing. What's what tomorrow will bring and all these things that kind of jive with me and so try it out like adam saying take a couple of classes if you have if you have and if you have acted and you're still saying is this something that's gonna make me happy. Well that is a question. That's an important question that you're asking and if if you're unsure than than there is probably something else for you but if you keep coming back to this thing then chances are you are supposed to be here and this is just chalked up to possibly a little bit of a drought. 'cause chances are this question is coming from carly who maybe has not booked in a while or is struggling with with something or maybe struggling with the idea that maybe this isn't something that i wanna do. i've definitely have come into points in my life where i'm looking at other pursuits. Not because this is hard. Or whatever. But it's because i i didn't find it fulfilling anymore and so you just have to always go for the thing that that makes you happy and and fulfills you So keep at it and and just listen to your heart and you know carly if you're listening if you if you have those moments where you can sit down kind of quiet and just kind of reflect on where you are and what you want out of That will surely help. And once you start. Implementing action action action action The universe really does reward you for that and You will see The effects of of your risk in your action Pretty quickly Okay so let's let's go to our next question here. This is from from harrison from new york city is asking. Why is my head. Shot not getting the in the room So when you get a headshot who sees it. Adam who seized before you choose you know i've never really been like a throw it out to you. Know social media. Hey what are you guys know me. I personally am just like a very particular person. Like i know what i wanted out of the chute to begin with so i know the shots that i want that i need so i'm not personally. I'm not one of those people who's like facebook. What do you think like. I know what i want and what i need. You shouldn't anyway because you want people who know what the headshot should look like. And if i get my aunt marjorie to look and say i like this one. It's like what you don't know. And that's the problem with a lot of actors is they're having other people or their significant others or themselves. Pick their own shot. And at times that can that can be bad. Why yeah like headshots. There's a lot that goes into it. It's like what market are you in in what shooting where you are right so like New york city. We have a lot of cop shows. We have a lot of Obviously it's exclusive to this stuff but we have a lot more like gritty. You know new york city cop on the street sorta stuff right so maybe you know really bubbly. Bright commercial looking headshots. Don't really reflect that. See you kind of want to match. What your market is and what shooting in your area. Also say be the market. The your types of shows that you are. Are you theater. Are you film like yeah. A commercial nego- out for commercial tv film. These are In theater these are going to be different types of shots. That just have different kind of vibes to him. I would always recommend Before you go into a shoot to look around like just say instagram. Look at the hashtag Headshots actor had shots and go around and save the ones that really strike you. Go into a shoot with reference shots even stuff from like magazines. Even if it's like an annie liebowitz shoot but you like the style of it and you're like you know i really want. I'm like a rough and gruff kind of person. I wanna go out for cop stuff. And i think this has a lot of attitude to it. Go into his shoot with reference photo c. Can show your photographer. This is the kind of mood that i'm going for. This is the kind of lighting that i'm going for. This is sorta the color palette that. I'm looking for stuff like that helps them tremendously. You know be aware of what you're going to be wearing And yeah just. I would say the most important thing is to have yourself come through. Don't pretend to be a character. Bryce show your true self in shots your kind of funny guy but you know you wanna go in for just be you. Don't pretend to be something. You're not because i think casting directors and agents and managers and stuff can kinda tell like the doesn't seem like you all. Yeah you want you went authenticity. Yeah and so there there. There are times you're gonna you're gonna get a a bunch of headshots. Maybe send them to your agent. They send you attend that they like. I mean i don't know how. Many times adam. I have gotten headshots and then fast forward two years and we still have not gotten in the rooms that we need and every first of the year one of my rep says okay so i hate to say it but i think we need new head shots. What are we missing. What am i missing it. It's it was so. I was so disgruntled. About how much money. I was paying for headshots. How good the headshot seemed to be. Yeah i was still not getting in the room. And you know you've told you've talked to me about these workshops that you took pederson and a couple of other people who showed you what they do and just a reminder they get a breakdown and if that's that one role they've got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of carousel actors going through in it is headshots not resumes. It's not rails it's headshots and it must pop and it doesn't mean that you have to do something. In order to pop you could be as calm and peaceful and you as possible and that would be the thing that would make you pop but it has to have something. That intrigues the viewer. In this case the casting director. I just shot with peter kinetico in la and he told me. I'm actually bring. I'm going to bring him onto working actor. Approach talk about headshots general because what he said. Was you know you have one shot. That shot can work for multiple areas if it's an ambiguous enough shot you've got somebody who is boy next. Door confidante friend romantic interest. You know these are things that you have to think about when i'm choosing my shots boom. I can't just think about romantically. I've got to think about. Can this also worked for fill in the blank. And what he told me was it did study and they would put the word of the the adjective of the character in front of the headshot and people saw these head shots and then saw the word matched up the word. The shot yet multiple words matter with those shots. Does that make sense. So so we're able to kind of cross promote ourselves over multiple roles and genres and you can kind of kill two birds with one stone instead of having one romantic lead shot and then one next door shot you can have that in one and if you have more of an ambiguous shot when you're agents are sending your stuff out there able to send that shot to multiple places and if you're shot his ambiguous enough. You have a better chance of that. Shot working for that adjective that breakdown. Yeah and i think You know when you when you put yourself up on actors access or backstage or wherever your self What's it called self promoting self tape self wherever yourself submitting out. You know it. You only need like three or four right. Don't need twenty seven. Different shots must is clear. Yes three or four is truly all you need and again i would say when you're getting ready to do shoot. Don't just go into a shoot. And say i want had shuts. You gotta be specific. It will help the photographer. It will help you know what it is that you want to go out for and tell your reps that these are the kinds of shows that i want to go out for if you wanna do been if you wanted to succession and kind of shows like that like high end top tier. Hbo type of stuff right. That are is really drama. Or if you wanna go in for really bubbly netflix stuff. You know what shooting in your area and know what you would be good for and sort of match the mood to some degree. Yeah with that so that it looks a little more cinematic. If that's what you're kinda trying to go for but again get reference shots and go in and be really specific an know exactly what you want. Don't just well let's just shoot. It's not gonna work. You really wanna be specific. What do i want to go out for. What am i trying to get on all of that stuff and sort of match the mood to a degree of all that. Yeah being intentional. I mean you're very selective. I'm extremely selective as well. We know what we want. We know how we what we want things to look like and be and it all comes from experience and so you know having intention and knowing what you want there's book steal like an artist a great book and it actually talks about how every musician and writer and painter and we all steal from the people that came before it's called inspiration or being inspired so if you're on succession and you see an actor who you kind of maybe fall into that type and you wanna be on shows like that. Look at their headshots look at their. Imdb check out. Whatever wearing what their position is their posture. Are they smiling. What's the what's the filter. What's the style that photographer uses. I mean it is such that is another world photography headshot photography you know and and you just have to be aware of it now. We do have always go in with like a. This is the the style that i liked and right. I look at other photographers. You know a lot of actors on instagram tag. The photographers if you like the shot. Look the photographer. Go through their stuff. Screen shot at and be like. I really love this style. I like how minimal it is. I like how shadowy it is. I like how the tones are kind of earthy and they don't like pop too much. Whatever it is that you like but gather all that stuff for a few weeks before you start. You know Messaging photographers just see you. You know when they say like what are you going for. You can be like well. Here's you know. Twelve pictures of things that i'm sorta into and i kinda wanna go in this direction but no you know what it is that you want. The look that you're going for is really important and now when it comes to what you're wearing less is more like you know if you don't wear jewelry and wheel life please don't fucking where in Your head shots. I hate when guys wear like necklaces and rings and bracelets and shit and it's like i've never seen you wear that a day in my life. Why are you putting it in your head shot. You look ridiculous if we're talking about authenticity. Yeah no you're you're you're being a character it's not you you wanna be you and and that's the thing when we go out every day and we take our number is not going to get called today. I that i don't have an audition today. I don't have anything really in the pipeline. That i could maybe books but i'm just showing up today. My my number is not going to get called today but it could get called tomorrow as long as do the things that i do and i do me and i stay in my lane then. I don't have to worry about tomorrow. Not getting my name called. Because i'm not living in my authentic self. If i had rings and and all this stuff on and i had this like big leather kit now and i have enough right now. I'm gonna show you a bunch of old photos. That tommy was just too hot to handle. What not he did not get in room because we were just trying too hard. Yeah that's why at a little older. You start to just nestle into your own. Originality your own uniqueness to own it so we definitely recommend. Have the conversation with your reps to be like. What do you think i don't have i i need you know if these two shots kinda working but i need something else or if none of this is working like woody. You suggest that. I kinda go for that would help me in your professional opinion but also making a a conversation with your reps. Don't make it just a a youth thing but right have opened conversation yet. There's going to be stuff that you might not like about headshots or the look or something but these are professionals the photographer and the reps. You may not always agree with them but they do know what sells and they do have your best and also you wanna bring options with you. If you do wear jewelry glasses contacts you know you might bring a razor if you have a beard Make sure that you can change however you need to And speak up during the audition or during the sessions. Speak up remember that. This is a collaboration. I've wasted so many sessions. Because i just didn't take my time getting ready or i didn't speak up about a batch upper award job choice. That wasn't in line with the vision. That i had remember. They are working for you right and with you. So you're the boss. You're the person hiring them so you should be like you know what i need another minute to like do my hair. I'm not going to have the next two years. Have a headshot where everything's often. It's not feeling right. Just because i didn't want to inconvenience someone on their time right. Yeah and also really important if you had a few years where you're going out for stuff in your like actively auditioning Be aware of what you're getting called in for 'cause like i always bring glasses with me I wear glasses. But i bring them to Shoots because i notice over the years. I'm not getting called in for like a rough and tough cop. I'm getting called in for like this guy. The lab nerd. I'm being brought in for like the kind of startup tech nerd. Guys is like what i know. I i have that kind of look to me. So i bring glasses as an option just to like up just so. I have that as an extra look because i've noticed. Those are things that i get called in for so lean into what you get called it for and don't try to get shots for stuff that you've never been called in for if that makes sense right match what you have. What you auditioned for right. Right trae from toronto. How do i memorize fully and quickly. This is probably one of the most asked questions that we get in term sofa. Things that are impeding an actor success in the room so suspicious cycle you walk into the room you have nerves you lose your lines or is it the lines that you get nervous about you know I don't know about you adam. But i came to a point where i just had a shift in my cognitive structure of how i was able to memorize lines and four is when you know the story you can get the lion down instantly also when you have that muscle working chances are after a shooting move. You're gonna be doing your best. Auditions why because that muscle is primed and ready. That that that sponge is ready. I'll be soaked up So what. I would say initially here to answer. This question is when you understand the story. The lines are nothing if i were to ask you at your your mother's home address the last four digits of your dad's phone number The first three schools you went to you'd be able to tell me that i would be able to repeat anything aside from maybe one of the schools. Maybe why because. I don't know that story. That's not my story. You know that story so you're able to recite it instantaneously so when i was on bull on. Cbs michael weatherly was there. He he left the Chair for little bitty came back. As where'd you go and he said we just shot a scene. I said i thought this was our last seen. Was there another scene. He said only needed to shoot something. It was like two pager. And i said did they give it to you because yeah i was just like a couple of minutes. How did you get that down so quickly. And he said well abdoun the show a little bit. I know the story. i know the algorithm of the episodes. I know the characters when they come in what they do. And there's a formula and if you know the story of your character and the story of the episode then the lines just come in the lines. Commit as my mom's home address the last four digits of my dad's phone number. You know that. Because you've been around the your dad and your mom and you know everything that's happening so I would say that when i'm primed and in it and my muscles working i can get scenes down no problem but you have to look at the logic of the scene. Well why did they say that. They don't just say that. why do they say it. Oh well now. It makes sense. Because i know why they said it so of course he would respond like that. Of course she would say that also you should focus on on the important words and your brain will remember the stuff leading up to it. That sort of that sort of dust. That is the the words in between the really important stuff. You do know that you know that you know it. So what i do. Is i rewrite mice. My sides so that there's no exposition and it's not clouded with the format of the script. I rewrite it enlarge on word and i printed out. And i have nice big lines so i can remember them so i can see them clearly. Then i record the other person's lines with space in between for mine so on my phone i can play the scene and respond in real time while my voice recording of the other character is going so now i've got the back and forth in the tempo playing off with another person. Then i do. I take out all the other lines from that word document and only have mind at this moment. I know the exposition. I know the other person's lines. All i need is a guide of mine and all i need is the first line and then i know it. So it's a gradual thing You want to be on the the content as much as you want it to be off it thirty minutes on thirty minutes off your spray needs to soak up these Lines they best do it. When you're sleeping go to bed at eleven wake up at six or seven or whatever go on walks take a take a break from the phone. Don't look at things because your brain is trying to understand. Stop taking in information Stop memorizing other things. Just focus on this thing and take it one step by one step by wants out and don't overwhelm yourself. You don't if you have three pages. Don't look at it as three pages. Just do three sentences by three sentences do that three sentences get it down get down get down. Get down at the next three. Get down going to end just gradually you're not gonna just. Yeah exactly you're not going to soak up three pages in a few minutes. You just gotta do it little by little but don't let it overwhelm you. Because they'll get there. What happens if you've got an audition tomorrow and it's a it's a four pager five pager. Maybe there's a couple of a couple of scenes right. I know your heart. Starting to beat. I can hear it through the freaking zoom. You're already getting anxious. Okay you're about to faint. I can see it now but there are. There is a way around this. Do you have anything specific that you implement specific no not really jail myself. I do what. I what i just said. Just little by little and just know. Okay this is going to take a little bit. But i'll get there a really good night's sleep and also if there's you know a few words or sentences or things in there that you're just there little hurdles for you. You're allowed in an audition now. Mind you. I'm speaking pre pandemic when we went to offices and didn't person you're allowed to have the thing in your hand your house till your lower sides in your hand you're allowed to look down in reference it's okay. They know that they gave this to you less hours than your hand casting liked to see that when you come in. They know good. He's not gonna call line or she's not going to have to not going to be lost. He has a map she got a roadmap. Keep it folded. Do whatever you want. you don't have to be. You shouldn't be married to it but if have it in your hand that's okay. You also want to remind them that. That's the addition in its final performance. In a way that is to to to show those papers every now and then to to remind them. Hey this isn't the real thing. Yeah and it really took me a long time to maybe not learned but except that because in my brain it was like oh if i looked down and i'm not a hundred percent off that i'm unprofessional. And it's like totally. That's not really. You know the name of the game you know like i've gone in for. We know that adam because our friends have booked after a night of drinking or doing something where they didn't even know they had an audition and they didn't have the lines down but because they were they were peaceful confident and they didn't make perfect. They got because they they would rather see when you walk into an addition. And you're you're standing there or sitting down whatever and you're getting ready to do it. They would rather see you with a point of view and a character comes through and the confidence of that with a crutch of having the look down if possible rather than none of that but be a hundred percent off book and sweating. Bullets just thinking. What's the lines lines. Aligns aligns aligns lines lines. They wanna see you relaxed. Relax suggests no when you go in if you're one hundred percent have it on your lap. No those moments or key words and where on the page it is so you can glance real quick and crime back but you wanna keep that i contact with whoever you're reading at with end. Just keep it going. You know you don't want to be reading off the page the whole time and you won't be you'll have something memorized but just know where it is that you're having trouble and just let that be a tiny moment of look down look up reconnect and keep going right. But they were now. They're saying it's confident and calm than stressing just about the words and just be in your head about what the lines are with no characterization or anything like that so yeah it's okay to have it with you and they're aware you know they sent it to you a few hours ago. You're not keeping your keep in mind a bunch of if we if we accept the fact that based on my experience three quarters of the behalf of the people that come in don't aren't gonna get it whatever reason they do something wrong. They're not prepared One of the wrong things if you get something yesterday and you're going in is to say sorry. I just got this yesterday. Never ever ever ever ever ever ever make an excuse about when you bought whatever because one they already know they no. They sent it yesterday. They know that you just got to fifty percent of those people are going to do that and come in and they already know they're not going to hire you if you come in and say that because you're just like everyone else they want the unique person. The original person that person not making excuses not fully confident for me. I love cold reads. I love when i get something the day before. Because i'm going to knock it out of the park better than anybody because i don't have a lot of time and because everyone's freaking out about it i'm not gonna freak out about it and i'll get it because i'm doing the opposite of what i know. Normal people are gonna be doing coming in another thing that i wanna to say adamant about looking down totally okay and this comes to support our claim of our advice of of increasing the font size of your lines so that you can look down and you know you only have four lines on this page one. Two three four boom next page. You know where you are. Because they're so large and it kind of keeps your place of where you are in the scene. So i'll be in a scene and i'll just kind of you know. Put the next page under. Because i know where everything is. I don't have to look at this. Tiny little typing in this crazy format that is the script you can reword that in rewrite it the other thing is if it is if it is a last minute. Start strong and strong. That is so important. Start super if you know the the first page or first half a page and the last half a page. Well that's really good. You wanna be able to have them be into everything right when it starts and have them be into you write ends so if you have to pick a place where you need to look down or maybe like married to the script because you just got it the right place the be. The most beneficial unfavorable favourable place is around the middle where you've already hooked them. You've got them and then you end strong to kind of bring it on home. Yeah and like tom said. Don't ever walk into the room with an asterix as to. Why isn't just don't ever do that. And if you can. I know this is an everyone situation but if at all possible have someone read it with you. It helps so much to hear it out loud with somebody else to run lines. It's so important I realize some people can't and i get it but if you can't if you have a roommate boyfriend girlfriend whatever it is just say hey can i have ten minutes just to hear it out loud with just so when you get in the room. It's not the first time you're ever hearing you know the other person's lines out. I can't believe. I cannot believe how many times i've done that where i just did it in front of the mirror a million times until just until i forgot the lines. You get a point where you just can't do it anymore. You forgot then. I just screw up the audition and i didn't. I had no sense of tempo. No sense of delivery from the other person But yeah and we do offer that. Thank god working actor pro. We offer private coaching. And we've been doing it for about a year and a half so anytime that you have an audition you've got a self tape you just want to go maybe booked a movie and you've got twenty scenes and you want to go over with them. We do remote one on one coaching. So you definitely want to employ some sort of outside perspective to see it to hear it in a different way it always. Auditions are always better. When i have somebody else look at it so One of the reasons we created working actor pro is because there wasn't anything out there that helped people in those times. I need somebody. I don't wanna ask my roommate again like they work at work at bank of america. They're not an actor they don't they. Don't wanna be bugged at nine o'clock on tuesday night. So that's why we're there. You wanna have an actor look at everything just another set of eyes. Oh yeah you know. These are writers and sometimes writers don't know how to write how normal people would speak so there are times where i mean i'll i'll even i remember chicago. Pd on nbc. I there was never any line about a greeting. Or hey how are you. But there's my friend and we just go in and hug know how would a normal person hug. Say what's up buddy. How are you and i did that. And you know what they kept it. Why because normal people greet people by saying hello sometimes writers leave things out and if you read it and you're like what i think i think he would say this. Maybe don't do that. As a co star. Maybe don't do that as a co star network show but if you if you i mean bringing it up to somebody it. Because they're writers they know what they're doing if you wanna throw something out there that's a little more natural chances are they're going to take it because the writer wrote it. You're the actor you're the human being So if there's something there you never know maybe there's only eighty percent of what really needs to be said and you're going to bring that extra twenty and part of being an actress to understand psychology and humans. And how we behave and how we respond and you might be onset saying you know what i think that i think this character would say. This is a qualified kind of mother words. A little bit theater is different. You know we're doing checkoff. We're going to honor the script and honor the words but with film and tv. There is a lot of room for. I won't say improv or changes but there are tiny little things that you can add who elevate the authenticity of those moments. And they're tiny tiny little words little moments little looks But the writers don't do that. It's not their job. it's not their job. Your job is to be as authentic as possible and if you need to supplement that with a few more things that you're bringing to the table then feel free and if if it's not welcomed than you'll be let you'll director will tell you you directly. Hey let's let's stick with the lines. Got it no worries right. A lot of really beautiful moments in movies were just brought on by the movies that i've done by people saying you know. What can we try this. Can we try this thing real quick and that that really did change the energy in the vibe of the whole scene so you'll you'll get there with experience to know what's the right decision. What should i do. just stick to this And of course we're always there through our private community if you wanna ask questions about what to do on or if i should add a little bit of this or that. We're always there to answer. Okay adam oh boy. We've got a really important question here. This is this is probably the second most most asked question. How do i. This is from jonathan from la. How do i pull off that emotional range at the drop of a hat adam. Cry right now Okay if you wanna to take this go ahead. I've i could talk about this whole day. Boy cheese at the drop of a hat. I think it comes down to emotion to experiences if you're not if you're not experiencing life you don't have love or you don't have connection. You don't have the ups and downs. You're just not going to get anything. And i have had those moments run stuck in my room. Waiting for the phone to ring won't go on vacation. Because i'm afraid of going missing an audition. I became an actor who didn't act not because of my talent or the no auditions. I couldn't act. Because i didn't have any experiences i didn't have any reference to to call from call on in those moments. You have to be at peace. You really can't be torn emotionally with other stuff going on in your life and act. I mean there are things that we just can't do that. Other people can do like who has a regular nine to five job. They could go out drinking the night before they could do this or that. Whatever 'cause they're sitting at a desk theory answering emails you're answering calls for us. We have to be emotionally available. One hundred and ten percent and the way that you can get emotionally available is to clear those lines of sensitivity and communication with whatever you've got out there that's giving you life and the way to do that for me is experiencing whatever whatever it is experiencing friends love joy happiness and all that stuff at implementing that in my daily life so something to go off of and i also have a peace within myself and the confidence and that feeling like i can't do it and that only came from being on set. They're probably three or four times in my early years where lightning struck. And i had those out of body emotional experiences onset where i was so in it and once i tasted it i could only get more into it and and it it helps me I know that music helps me a lot. When i'm in an emotional scene. I will go to a corner play. Play whatever Whatever gets me going depending on on what mood. That is if you have a song that you like cry at the drop of a hat too. Don't ever play it. Don't ever play it until you're onset and you need it I have a song that reminds me of my mother and i will not ever play it. If it's on random i'll stop it. I will absolutely stop it. Because i don't wanna. I don't wanna get used to that song. Because i play it. I wanna i wanna be able to remote. And if i play that too many times i'm going to it's going to stale so fine things that move you. Maybe it's soldiers coming home on youtube. Jesus that kills me find anything that kind of gets things go in and then ride that wave and what you will get in in the in the onset. Is there so much energy going on. On set and there is a palpable. There's like a palpable energy especially emotional scenes onset where everybody from the sound guy to the director to all. The extras knows that this is an emotional thing. You can actually ride that wave of energy and tap into it based on your awareness of everything that's going on You it starts with it starts inside and then you kind of feel the energy around in it's sort of just i don't know how to explain it but it just snowballs and it just grows and if you're open to that idea of of of actual authentic feeling imaginary experiences it will happen. You just have to be open to that idea. Meisner was a huge thing for me. If you're if you're if you identify as being a male and you're born brought up as a boy who learned to not cry to subside your emotions. Those walls built up before you. When you you didn't even notice but meisner was classes helped me break those down and become more emotional. There are also specific hacks and tricks that we can do that will show you. But only in the course because it's kind of a big thing Where you can be able to. And i hate to say it cry on command. These are things that you need to be able to do. And i know that there are times where i need to be able to produce tears like that and i do it There's a authentic way do it. Then there's the Kind of a trick way to do it. And if you guys wanna find that out stick around till after and we'll let you know about the course and will let you know all that stuff is actually include. So you'll be able to learn that. As well adam i also would say. Don't get so married to when it says to do things on specific lines in a script right now. I know a writer. Put that there but you know for in terms of like an audition or something like that. You know if it's after this line at says breaks down into tears. Don't have that in the back of your head is okay in on the sly like don't Adam like in those moments. Fifty percent of those people are going to cry at that exact moment. at least the other half aren't going to aren't going to vote that won't be able to produce that that emotion. But if you don't do that at that moment in an act of defiance or creative creative control you actually have done something totally unique and totally different than everybody else doing. So i totally get that. I love that you don't have to stick to that specific place where it says you yell if you tried to do it quietly. What if i think what. I'm i'm more referring to like where it says tears or something really specific. That's like heightened emotion. That might be hard for people. I would just say you know. You don't want it to seem so on the nose and manufactured as though you're the actor while you're doing the scene are going oh and this is where it says it and now i have to try because this is in the script where it says. It's going to come off as a little phony i if you know that there is crying in the scene and you know that that's where the writer wants the scene to go. You're aware of that. You're going to be aware of the emotionality of the scene and just play it. Don't be. Don't tie yourself or mary yourself too. I have to do this. Ron this line. Or i'm not going to get the role or whatever you know what i mean. You want to feel their ticket. You not like you're you're It's going to feel a little manufactured if you're going gonna come off. It's trying. I guess is what i'm trying to say and you don't wanna try at all. You know i. I consider those those that exposition as as suggestions truly and it's the same thing like breakdowns. Remember diamonds and rust. That's that's the movie that you and i met on played brothers and that audition. I remember ashley saying the people who i did. I think it was like a thousand people auditioned for like every part like ridiculous because it was backstage was on actors actresses. I think and i don't know about your character. But she told me this. You know david or stephen was was very disrespectful. Standoffish rude only there for money Didn't care about anybody. And you know what a nine hundred ninety nine other people played it as played a medic played be didn't care plato. Us totally standoffish I just play him as a person who kind of just a little disinterested in whatever's going on and the fact that i didn't squeeze every last ounce of that break down into the performance and i just let him be allowed the that breakdown to be more of a suggestion of him rather than a specific specific and calculated behaviors. I allowed it to just kind of his aura and they say breakdowns to give they they give you those adjectives to give you an idea of the person. It's just to give you an idea of them. It's not to say this is what we want. We want him standoffish. We wanna dick. He has to be this. He said yeah. It's just a robot. These are suggestions so if it says he breaks down you break then breakdown before breakdown after breakdown how you think that the character would break down and you can't calculate it you can't manufacturer you can only be in those those moments and allow things to just happen I used to think that everything written down had to be apps. And it's just not these are just this is just what they have. The animal's going to be a completely different thing out of had. I think writers no when they write that stuff that you know. It's sort of your wishlist. It doesn't necessarily mean it's always gonna happen and certainly not for an audition. Don't don't preoccupy your mind with having that goal there you know right. Look if you cast then and you get into the rehearsal process. And you're doing the full-out seeing with the actual scene partner in you're doing the whole film or the whole player. Whatever then yeah over time and when you finally do it that'll probably come up and you might be able to hit that mark because you're gonna have so much more emotional fuel because you're you're in it and your onset and you have the The the costume. And you have the actual person. You're doing the scene with and all of that stuff and it's all there but in in terms of an audition. I just wouldn't put all your eggs in that basket of like. Oh i have to do this. Don't worry about it obviously. If it says certain things you know what. The emotion of the scene needs to be. But you don't have to necessarily set the goal for yourself of on page three. It says i have to cry toe. Fuck and worry about it right. I agree okay. Let's go to one of our last questions here from k. From chicago how do i book more acting roles. Okay well i don't know if rep yet. Sounds like sounds like she hasn't because really if you had reps you they would be getting you these auditions and they would also tell you how to go about getting them yourself but atom. What's you what's been your experience in getting roles by yourself. What's your process for that Back when i was handy's lotta blowjobs. Avi back when i was starting out. Pre representation got. I looked for a lot of stuff that i went. Oh i i can see me doing that. Like that's up my alley. That's something that you know. It would say funny friend or sarcastic or a nerd urges things that i was like. Oh those are my qualities you know what i mean Those were things that i would self submit for that. I was like well. Of course i could see myself playing it. Those are all the words that kind of represent me in what i do and who i am and all of that stuff so when i went into an audition you know i didn't have to like put on a character or try. I just sort of like amped myself up and it would just it would come off was incredibly natural and you know it didn't seem like i was playing a character per se but you know that was back when i could pick and choose what it was that i was going out for because i didn't have somebody doing that for me. I was doing it myself. So i just would look through everything very carefully and if it said really tall. Super sexy Chris hemsworth t i was like. I'm not gonna fucking submit for that. That is not who i am. That's not what i looked like. That's not my own. That's just not my gig. Like i'm not going to submit for that. I know who i am. And what characters. I'm gonna play. So i played a lot of sidekicks and funny guys and sarcastic people and stuff like that so like my whole real Pre representation were certain kinds of rules. Because that was the shit that i submitted myself for and that i was good at playing because it was just me so backstage actors access casting networks. La casting craigslist is not a really thing anymore. Stay away from that. But these are sites except for handy's that's out of specialty. These are resources that you can use I have probably gotten at least half of my projects that have done in my life. Have all been through a self sitting through these these sites so if you need help getting on on the sites let us know. We also have discounts for backstage. Didn't go through our site for that can get half off right now on backstage. Actors access is notorious for great independent film castings and you can trust that type of resource. So i wouldn't. I would say that you you do. Need a rep and you can get that through agent jeannie. You can get it through emailing and sending snail mail and all that we can. We can help you with that. But until then you can get everything yourself at least getting started tobacco Backstage and actors in those others. Throw up your profile picture. Get get a real. Throw up your resume. We could definitely help. Coordinate that if you need it just let us know so. Thanks for listening adam. Thanks for hanging out absolutely and you can find more of before the break at before the break pot on instagram and book it at book at nyc on instagram. I'm at that adam carlo adam. Decarlo dot com. Find tommy at tommy beyond on instagram and tommy beard. More dot com. You can also find us on instagram working actor pro and facebook as well so check that out. We have a bunch of stuff coming your way if you have any questions. Shoot us an e mail tommy at working actor pro dot com by tammy. Thanks for listening. Everybody will see next time. You've been listening to before the break. The hosts are tommy. Beard and adam decarlo cover art by amanda june boucher music by benjamin sterling before the break is accorded live from los angeles and new york city.

adam tommy beard adam decarlo zarb carly annie liebowitz peter kinetico indiana Adam new york city michael weatherly abdoun pederson marjorie Adams stevens Bryce sprint
Pixel 4 hands-on and Mark Zuckerberg's speech on free speech

The Vergecast

1:27:54 hr | 1 year ago

Pixel 4 hands-on and Mark Zuckerberg's speech on free speech

"This week on the verge cast we talk about all things Google the Pixel for the new nest stuff pixel buds new nest hardware stadia we also get into it about Mark Zuckerberg's big speech on facebook and free speech that's the Virtuous Cup now there's no room for idle chat in business so if emails you're only moneymaker make wolf or something go to intercom dot com slash podcast that's intercom dot com slash podcast to monitor and detect wildfires to thing I've noticed is that technology in power in particular seem to be making news faster than ever yeah on this event so everything leaks completely and I think that fundamentally like they they may have also gotten like head faked by the hello and welcome the verge cast the flagship podcast to the growing empire podcasts seriously slip behind you and Ariel Tim Ross former verge science reporter true former vice news tonight reporter true but she's back the vox media podcast network Take Intercom Customer Unity just twelve months they converted forty five percent more visitors through Intercom Messenger make room for new revenue channel and everybody still I am here with my basically everywhere you can get by subscribing on apple podcasts stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts weird backlash to to apple's keynote I mean there was like the Charlie was offering a bunch of people say yes he's right people should stop being so celebratory I don't know you're GonNa be pretty on the show pretty often and keep that cycle yeah it's going to be three times weekly so it's GonNa be on Tuesdays Thursdays and Sundays all right perfect era we can look for reset spooky holy boo a big week in news case Addy Robertson are going to join us for the second segment literally on the day we're taping Marxist analogy in power and how they all mix to to sort of give us your current reality so kinds of things are going to cover a whole bunch of things things that are very straight up tax like a and how it's being used to grade essays for standardized tests for students and we're also going to be looking at things a little bit quirkier like the technologies that we used event was here we got the pixel four we got sort of like a mysterious look at the forthcoming Pixel Buds pixelbook go A bunch of stuff future of again I'm your friend Deah bonus here there's Paul there's another podcast turn to Aberg delivered a speech about the future of free speech and Internet platforms the Virgin Diverge virtuous topics so casey join US talk about that but new show called reset what is reset it seems very exciting reset is tech podcast that's GonNa come out on yes tack it was also a huge Google event this week and to be fair many many things really anyone is surprised Google small hardware are you excited I'm super excited the world needs more tech podcast I would say set reset is going to be a tech news podcast that's GonNa Explore Science stint little bit a bunch of stuff yep missing anything probably it was it was such a strange event I mean we just start there about what the the way they instead of doing the traditional keynote that you expect for like gets onstage all right first product announcing this product Blah Blah Blah second product announcing this influencers who are otherwise I would say somewhat disinterested in the goings on of Google's tighten security chip learn how to get got applied to the Pixel four and by the way the sum total of that was dunking on apple getting there okay I but it was is a picture of it up there Babo they they didn't announce anything they like casually mentioned it while they were talking about something else and then only later in the hour that we're like Oh yeah no this is what it is sorry we think we brought up before yet here it is it was very odd this is my like writing technique for essays I make a bullet point in the I hide my point inside paragraphs subtle for it was a presentation was very strange it did provide is it would seem to clear that not a lot of stripping had gone into that conversation so you know the Google person stage was like so why do you like using the phone and it was completely if you haven't watched at least that section of this keynote I encourage you to go watch it because it's very cogent and he the donkey and apple is amazing I think that she's like because photos stories but right in front of us were some very famous instagram. You're basically in an apple store with with more pressure it's an apple store with like four tables and twice as many people and attempt has peter saying it's very low key laud structured at least it was different I like that I will say that the sort of post events Google method uh-huh Liebowitz showed up like a little chat the Annie Liebowitz part was was very interesting in funny for two reasons one was that isn't hasn't already been done on another phone is face unlock and technically if you want to say having ninety hurts on Sandy Liebowitz that was very funny so what's interesting is we got way more insight into what any legal actually meant later on in the day at the Ciller calling diffusion computational Photography Mad Science so let's go through let's so the event was it was like hands on area because we gotta talk to the person who was on a head of Aley before it's which was actually the best part of the entire keeps which was Mark Levin who is think everything got leaked and so they were hoping for something and when you look at it on paper the only thing that the Pixel for has staffer professor created a bunch of the ideas behind coffee table photography they just had it going staged like just give it a little mini lecture on how computational photography works and what his opinions on it are it was like he's walking room what will he find in the room will be the the leaked Pixelbook go or the leaks pixel for who knows where it was fine and just sort of you know looking at twitter and a whole bunch of the reactions and everyone's real mad at this phone like disappointed in this phone and why because all focused just on the thing in your pocket and that's why I made the newness many and it's also really important because you know you also want the system to work really well Blah Blah Blah and also the pixelbook go exists and Blah Blah product Blah Blah Blah Blah they dislike we're gonNA talk about Ambien computing for awhile and it's really important that everything worked together in your home and that you know the the computer gets distributed so it's not Kinda Pounder v SPEC war thing so there's just I I need to you know review the phone but based on the hands on time I had with it ahead of the event and in particularly because of the is situation about whether it is as secure as the FM so that's like beginning it's really fast right yes it's really fast because correlatively small screen and technically if you're paying attention that chip allows Google Assistant to work really quickly and technically if you want to say the radar on the phone it's whatever Eddie how Pixel for the Big Guy Yeah I mean let me say this I have been watching a lot of youtube I've been watching I've been reading a bunch of read it back but this is the most iphone like android phone ever in insofar as like is very clean it knows exactly what it wants to be and far superior to the apple method yes google just like sets up a giant room with all the stuff in it and people like mill around and do their thing there's tons of devices apples the fats not thinking engineering that part any Liebowitz comes on and they all sat straight up yeah because like I mean yeah they're gonna add an attention detect feature to make sure your eyes are open they're definitely GonNa do that did they told us okay like all things promises about future software features or not the other Pixel before the joke that people make pixels that it's like it's what if Google made an iphone what would it be like this is not just because it looks like it because it has the big screen of this conversation I thought it was really interesting when he you asked him like is this a thing that is part of Google's ecosystem you know like radar thing rightly so there's a there's things that nobody else has ever done but because it will leak everyone felt familiar with it and so no one bought in that mattering and everyone really wants like well has the default of it skipping the lock screen just going into whatever screen was last open on the phone and so with the iphone you have like this extra cognitive load of like swipe up at the event I think it's actually a very very good android phone I think it's very interesting adverts phone and I think there's a lot of stuff in it that is really compelling I think that more than it at least he's talking like solely is an important element of what is going to be a pixel going forward possibly but it doesn't do much there's testing so it's easy coming grabs you yeah lights up the sensor and then it does possibly a low in face right on that they say they're gonNA it worked with my sunglasses on the sunglasses that blocked the iphone so I think it's it's there's just a quick I think there's an open I don't actually know if it is like if you had a stop watch faster to unlock it feels faster because it starts when you start reaching for it and it also feels faster because checked like two people are there one person's there which I think could be really interesting for privacy like you like you could how your phone in a mode where like if somebody miss feerick sensor that's just detecting things around and you do the math on it and you can discover intent and most can element of surprise at bent that would have otherwise lacked it didn't know it was going to happen next like Yep Bertini Thurston had made a lot of videos with Google and devices and a third as much time yeah Jesus live here you WanNa hear now there's a there's a nest inspired sleeping area for you here's some jackets like is around me like just switched to I don't know something innocuous but otherwise I'm going to be doing crimes I knew we'd get there this is like there's a demo site does a lot it can it can see you're like if you're inclined towards the phone or inclined away it can early for a minute because it doesn't do a lot you know if you're if you're listening to this year presumably in a virtuous feed you know that we we spoke to wreck Osterloh got three gestures skip music there's three categories to think of in terms of what motion sense does the versus presence so are you for a for a number of reasons not just the mechanics of the detection but also the learn ability of the gestures yet and hear the phone was the screen or look at the lock screen or whatever with the Pixel you don't touch anything it's just there and I think that might be part of the perception of the speed yet shen and and and objects around the phone but we also live a world that we've tried a lot of gesture interfaces and they've always been bad and horrible awful and donal solely demo is the tiny violin gesture yeah and they there's no tiny violent gesture so this is not I don't think this is indicative of much because everyone's gotta like it does if you're reaching for the phone and it turns screen on right like it and it also knows if you're reaching for the phone to quiet down alarms and ringtones I feel like the story of my life with technology because like it seems like it is actually really cool technology but at the same like the a a radar him harshest burn with the most direct burn was he just he's like guys this isn't mad science this is just math yes really simple math and that was a direct quote learn the phone and get used to it but I definitely enjoyed you know they had the wall the phones at the event did you run across them it's just like I skip under the interview episode at the event there's clearly more at Ken do or more it could do Ya Paul did you get a chance to hear that it it it could detect your heartbeat if they wanted Oh yeah no and the iphone has that middle step where like maybe it chose your notifications if you have that setting going on right like yeah teeter is going to review the phone we'll find out what's for instance the Pixel for also squabble sides which is an indication that squeeze all sides are just like an important element of what makes a phone a pixel you know and slightly refined a little bit different but like same same sort of like library of of gestures does the same stuff yeah with solely in the Sir whereas the iphone you have to tap lights does a whole thing what are the other things about that speed thing I want to mention Brought this up in the hands on is to buy a wide base overtime a good comparison to this I think is USA they built an iphone the gestures are exactly the same as the iphone on the screen right like same android like watching people trying to figure it up in like the hit rate was low yeah right like what's the thing you can do if you see a pixel out in the wild like open youtube music and machine learning models don't work for this slightly new tiny hardware and they had to throw all their machine learning models and start over again so like there's actually not as much training in this wave your hand over it it doesn't quite work the way you expect I don't think that's really fair right like eventually you're going to expect how it works and you'll be fine if you get like that I recognition because maybe there's going to be false positives yeah I mean like reviewing it we gotta talk to but yes the idea is that it's fast because it begins the process fast they had like basically duct taped to Pixel twos and then they're like okay now we got the final hardware let's put it into the Jerry Pixel fours and they realize like Oh wait the phone or not and if you're not by the phone screen turns off like it knows you're there and they could potentially do more with that but that's all they're doing right now the second is like I guess it's called like any tracks like you like you do it high fives at the end of a soccer game all those pokemon has got tickled today no I really enjoyed doc stopped doing this contrast thing you're doing it software and I'll I'll turn it up if I need to and he connected to the fact that they know pixel phones have a look we talk about this in all phones you have to get enough people to use the funds that you sell you have to make them expect that from all the other like collapse out Yep one thing I'll say about solely being all kinds of stumble into that over time so I think there are some questions about how precise it actually is how small the movement actually act what else they're going to unlock with it over there's wave your hand to dismiss stuff and then there's wave your hand left to right to skip songs and then there's wave your hand to wave at Pokemon stickle POK Mon and that's literally yet but the st they're punchier their HD R. E. Sometimes Yeah Bill a little bit I think less than like the iphone ten was the most hd our phone I've ever seen I effectively an off the shelf sensor right Google thinks they can get it done in software and they're getting it done in software to any it's gave them feedback which was mostly the Pixel you see apple had to respond they did a good job I think we had some questions about how Google would respond I loved talking to mark Levin at this event so they have the opportunity to like start from scratch and build the base of gestures and everyone understands so if apple ever does it apple has to copy them but that's a big lift you have to like selling the dude is the best I hope we can get him on the show soon so interesting facts we learned from that conversation we learned a lot talking is my favorite one it could be because they had to start from scratch yeah so the camera it's like dealer your headline was it's not about the camera but it's kind of what I mean our reviews pixel phones have very distinct look I can almost I'd say eight out of ten identify the Pixel photo just straight out there more contrast is the factor of competition right now that I think most people are interested in which I think is great it makes me very happy that you know we we just spent a lot of time talking about the new iphone talking about again is to answer it or not so you're not listening to it the whole time you have to hit a button you just like you start to reach for it and then it gets quiet and then you can like wave your hand and dismiss call or whatever and then the third one is the gestures like are they can they really get the detail that they claim they can my understanding I talked to people that developed at tap and they developed a Salak yeah yeah and the gestures work exactly the same yeah so the face off is interesting reports today which go confirmed works with your eyes closed time and in the office of the big question that we asked Rick like are you going to build on this is this an interface paradigm for you that's going to get more and more complex and sophisticated under out of the photo you can actually adjust whether it it boosts they'll shadows all the way up to make everything flat we can adjust whether the brights are overexposed ripple down so the alarms off you reach for the phone you don't actually you haven't actually touched it yet and the thing immediately get super quiet and then you can choose what to do with it you can all day why can't they do in portrait mode He had an answer for this I don't know if I believe it was answer I don't remember his answer his answer was it looks pretty bad there's no way to get real time Portugal for comparison photos now I mean I think that the the move is like you you compare the auto because you need some kind of baseline and then you sort of like compare the wall holy the radar chip when you reach for the phone I mean we were at the event like deers like now you be the table and you'll be the table and a little less hd are in one sense maybe a little less contrast eat another sense depending on how you want to look at it and it's funny that we're like did any feedback and he was like did thing we like stick your hand in front of it and wave it doesn't quite work the way expect you have to start over the side and come over it in the broader gesture than you think yeah that's like I just watched the feed the video feed under expose it to like basically map where they are with their underexposed frames when you take a photo and they apply the same tone mapping to it and he's together right so that's true another thing mark told us was that pixel rise is substantially different than I found so an iphone that isn't actually true to the final result and any phone that shows you realtime portrait mode if you actually like I don't take a screen shot of what's in the viewfinder and like look at what and this thing about editing after the fact I think Neil you're right no one edits after the fact but it in some cases you cannot do the thing after the fact you think you can she couldn't like I love that but they're really doing the work and software the live I thought this was really cool they basically take the picture that actually gets taken they're very very different yeah so it's interesting as apple does have effectively a lot of real time you find her apple is and because the phone isn't actually saving the data that you need to get the effect right so if you do HDR takes like the stack of ten frames that if we open up the full set like we won't do anything that's how we'll spend time and he'll be showing people like six thousand photos of different settings that have no still has way more controls I think the most interesting controls are the new brightness in shadow controls you find out where you can you can actually adjust how much HDR affect your think compared to especially other Edward phones but also the iphone has motion sense it has high frame rates screen it has faced lock like other android phones don't have that we're now quickly at any point where we have to constrain how we review the cameras because they're getting so many features and there's so many ways to use them what can I do to make this thing more interesting better we'll have little basically have to take like ten photos every single thing like I'm not GonNa do all of that was really scrapping to create that image and it creates image if you try and edit it later it's just working off of the composite thing that it made not off of like let's grab these ten things that were stacking actually like I merged image still so they're generating a different kind of raw and you can actually I think do some ten mapping this is all laid out there like there's no way for in the same combination also orange yeah does have orange teetering I disagree about whether the orange the white is the number one pixel together I say it's orange yeah well the reason either like solely enabled by very specific hardware or like stuff like the camera the voice recording which seems really cool but that's accelerated by very much in the there's giving you auto mode they don't you can monkey with some settings on an iphone black apple will turn on night mode by itself and set us shutter time by itself like guys but it you know one of the things when when we review cameras we put out photo comparisons always here is and you're wrong it's because I love orange phones more than you and I think that the white phone is fairly slightly superior I think it makes clear cleaner artistic statement about what the is a single frame off the sensor that's what you get that's what gives you for example they do something called smart raw so they did a little differently but like Roz Ronnie often Pixel Roz because it's a low Rez it's a if you find your moving you don't see the slightly lower resolution but the tone mapping looks convincing I think that's very smart like I could no doubt about that that is really cool I think that is an amazing advance on this camera visit GonNa do a lot in practice to use it or is it just me more sliders over the thing you're trying to shoot comparison with other android phones it's interesting how much stuff is in this phone that couldn't be easily done by another manufacturer especially because a lot of it is why can just edit this photo to look like that right and what I know would every vendor tells us there's nobody at it's these photos shoot the photos yeah well how are you going to think about that with light is more of like a clean statement of pay attention to the way that this phone is built and and like how it's sort of like humble as an object bearing on reality which is you just pull up the phone and some years that is the move because that is the only differentiating thing right yeah this year at least with the Pixel it's not the differentiator really disliked but pixel phones or just really punchy so they know they have a look but the pixel four they have changed the look of the photos they have they have backed down on that a little bit and made it it's like it's Kinda minimize they don't really watch like it's a pretty like thing right on the pixel that that rail is like black at a different color there is a they can now understand more voice commands for Google assistant locally on the phone that makes it much faster setting so the cloud I that stuff is legit that says look at me the I made the joke that they're like big heavy chunky glasses in the hands on her you're right and I think that the contrast of that black to the AH I'm assuming most of your camera head to head comparisons are like I'll take this picture on auto on I'll take this picture and it's the only fair way to do it so you're not going to touch the sliders on the Pixel for intimately cool there's always an open question about whether the Pixel team gets better access to android than the other android vendors as the most complicated enough work on the software to adapt it and then you know the correct benchmarking and tweaking to make sure it is actual performance but the other the other version it's not a matt black back the every it's got it's got matt sides the aluminum rails around the edge and on the iphone you look at the aluminum rail and it's very shiny carefully thought light is they don't get special access to android but they do get special access to the Google Assistant Yeah I think it's actually really telling that they gave this Google thing for any company like Gould Manage Microsoft test manager to obviously with surface devices and windows I did not see her she locked Heimer at this yesterday assistant thing a brand name they call it the new assistant and to me that means they might give it to other phones eventually but like they didn't face brand name they gave a brand name to motion call it out directly yeah because it when you when you see the review if you notice if you'll tortured in the camera section it's because of this we did the entire iphone review what is the shadow looming over the interview the Pixel four is coming right so I'm telling you the IPHONE has a better camera than the Pixel three believe it other people specific hardware Yup Jaso the voice recording they can now do transcription in a new APP called or quarter it's all local on the phone it seems very good the things where the hardware becomes so integral to the feature that is it is the feature it's not really it's software becomes pretty secondary to what wrote a whole story about how it works I'm grilled him with questions. Diffusion is going to be active actually quite a bit on the iphone Yeah Right the bench market on those devices as a hopefully some of these features will like maybe in a year run on like qualcomm chipsets with like this his answer which is seen seemed very honest he's got a benchmark like they've got a poor the software to make sure it runs on there then they have to also in stark contrast to apple being like yeah now that that features special for the new phone and it's like is it is that I don't know so here's the problem that we were going to run into I just want the sensor is a little bit different and so they won't be able to run the exposure times as long so I think the Pixel four can do like fifteen second exposures pixel three to four did you know I guess to go I mean I think a lot of this stuff is pixel stuff that makes use of google non custom android stuff I think they have to walk that line very very the question isn't so much about like what can produce a better photo of you just deciders it's like what provides the better experience of taking a photo like gives you results that like you feel happy about a second exposures like it gets hot I think they're just different chips I don't know if I like how it's gained it I don't know but it's definitely gated in some way but I think that's great right and the the actual functionality so an interesting version of this is the the astro photography mode the extremely long exposure mode mark told us they're going to try to bring it's a pixel three but situation well it's not out yet it's in the Beta of Iowa's thirteen point two we can't review it we can't compare to a Beta that's not fair to to any word they gave a brand name to their little chip and gave a brand name to the assistant which is fascinating yeah well I mean could give reality assistant but it's just one is in the orange one does outweigh make connect those dots right now so if you hold the phone like the the black one is stupid in Chicago as the black and photo lens of the iphone has almost always gonNA use unless you're really bright sunlight if you're inside you're GonNa get it it's it's it's almost certainly going to be on because you're in a low enough lights with intercom intercom as the only business messenger that starts with real time chat then keeps growing your business with conversational bots and guided product tours google or anyone yeah it's Beta software could work they could yank it I mean it's not like I was thirteen is like some very smooth rollout like all for all we know thirteen we'll come back you actually diffusion they'd the phones explode like we don't know what's going to happen so it's very unfair to review against the shadow over the iphone reviews pixel not trying to be too fancy but it's still very well made than the orange was like look at me I'm orange with a little bit of peach inside fair sorry back to your a big feature of the often cameras just think deep fusion is GonNa really improve medium light shots YEP and they put it out you know we uh-huh What is art what is the photo what's happened fine but we know that there's another version coming out right like okay forcing apple says L. by the way signed it they got a big problem you guys asked me back putting some of these features to pixel three am in and what was the Soley said like they they changed hardware so they had to throw away all training like there there is this aspect especially with some of these machine learning or the shadow over the pixel four of us can be deep fusion the difference is that it is in the Beta so in theory we can generate some diffusion shots and compare them but yeah see fusion might not be out forever they could change significantly between now and launch chicken yeah they could they could change the sliders of how it works they could they could actually give you we should talk about the telephoto yeah the super resume super resum Google's contention is that telephoto is more important clear line for me the Pixel for is not available I do not have this hardware in my hands you cannot pre-order it it has been leaked and half announced double-dip on traffic got the first comparison and then you got the versus defusion Harrison. Yeah it's like that's cool but it's still not real until it ships and I am so hesitant for us to actually review a Beta product because how many cannot do deep fusion so if you want that feature to be available you have to not activate diffusion can only use standard apple HDR u-turn have to take the same shot with the outside the frame on and off and then compare and then maybe you might have figured out that there's diffusion there right so I can't explain why capture outside the frame huge on I see this I see this as a challenge and I don't really know what you should do up front for this review but I do the opportunity here is a real on an ultra wide because they have super resume and so they can use the extra data from the telephoto to make super zoom even better in addition they can fusion off it's a setting that went on prevents diffusion from being activated right so that means that we're kind of like using it to see what happens the frame on it's using both the main camera and the wide angle right and then it will it will it will notice like oh the sometimes in our lives and we've been burned by depending on Beta right so it's it's I think it's just a little bit different I think we'll end up deeter correct me if I'm wrong I think we'll end up horizon is off level or like you cut off this person's face will grab the shot from the the Wider Angle Lens in merge it with this one but the ultra-wide camera captured inside the frame off nine got that problem you can do fusing on the white Anglo the tally so it's like this it's not a setting to turn is setting it's in Beta it's here and people yelling me if I don't like people are using it yeah everyone calls it sweater mode because we call it started around like I'm very proud that the verge made me if there's one specific way to make deep fusion go on and off it is a ten gentle the iphone eleven has the shoot outside the frame feature frenzy fusion on off so deep fusion is like a new H it only turns it off it doesn't necessarily turn it on that's the infuriating part only turns out so we have captured tell us that it's easier to use the data thing portrait mode than than an ultra wide therefore given the choice between either telephoto or an ultra wide they believe that the hip a sensor that can detect the motion of your finger in a small violins sort of motion but not really do anything with that information that's flagship I think the thing that makes it really hard and this is like extremely inside baseball but I suspect our audience cares if you don't let me know but it was a very are users would much rather have a telephoto that they'll get much more utility out of it why not both yeah yeah I don't get it it makes no sense to me but I haven't gone to the Google Party where they'd said it's like I'm not comparing this the pixel for it's coming that'll be fun when it's here but it's not here with software yeah where you see the main camera view finder and the ultra-right or depending on what camera using you see it outside that features off by default wise it out by default because when you have it on depression is an act yeah but even if you have it off in bright light you aren't necessarily getting it right so you have to start file sizes you have to like zoom in you have to showing like one or two diffusion shots we have to but we can't review it and then Paul we'll we'll doubled up and do the diffusion review thing beautiful whatever supply he also use ZIPRECRUITER's candidate rating feature to filters applicants who could focus on the most relevant ones that's how dylan found his new director of coffee in just a few days with results like that it's no wonder I found a camera is not any good right like it is it is a very much worse camera than the main camera nearby the finds them for you it's technology identifies people with the right experience invites him to apply to your job so you get qualified candidates fast dealing posted a job in Ziprecruiter and said he was impressed by how quickly he had great. It's a deep dive into one important topic this week the topic is colts that's right colts got nearly previewed and watching it made me think about cults in the WHO Access to Andrew I'm worried about battery life because they didn't upgrade these the battery in the small Pixel right when he hundred million pixel and you know I I am definitely in the camp where I find more often with a phone that I wish zeal men than I wish it could zoom out like it's cool to the amount make sure you check it out by searching for explained or vox on Netflix and going straight to net flix dot com slash explained that's Netflix dot com slash explained Miskel wits needed to hire a director of coffee for his organic coffee company but he's having trouble finding qualified candidates so he switched to Ziprecruiter Dot Com ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding the at our web address ziprecruiter dot com slash verge that's ziprecruiter dot com slash VCR GE once again ziprecruiter dot com slash verge ziprecruiter the uh-huh segment that's why flagship is it can do a thing but it won't sweater now it's nice I I think the big question is whether it destroys the battery life well they say well because it it's dynamic and they they could make dynamic because you know they know maybe have spent the iphone ultra light camera is the MP three of cameras I love it I mean it sounds terrible but it looks cool. MP threes the the the verdict is jewel has suspended sale of fruity flavor pods and so from running the trump administer four out of five employers who post SIP recruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day Ziprecruiter is affected for businesses of all sizes trust Ziprecruiter for free most dangerous but delicious thing in the world is a flavor jewel pod you know our our team's GonNa flock to it I feel like once you're addicted to Nicotine Artis win higher this episode is brought to you by vox his own Netflix show explained it is great it's one of my favorite shows out there right now every episode is fifteen twenty breath episode of the verge cast is brought to you by Ziprecruiter hiring can be a slow process Cafe Ultra Dylan is from nexium to members of Jonestown the most provocative thing is a connection to religion is raise Ashland says in the episode cult plus time equals religion and it's narrated by Keith Stanfield I and I've had pro and irregular IPAD and I'm very attuned to the difference of motion versus standard right yeah yeah I mean it's nice if you turn it off gonNa cry like or or what's the way you want chip locations ever gotten the UN ship to work I feel like an entire hour one ship oh that as someone who might want to pick up vaping for the first time the tobacco pods tastes like Shit and the flavor pods tastes really good that'd states in a whole new way that's right I said colts this is a must watch episode it digs into how cults people in and get regular people to do horrible things if features numerous former cult member ah more cases where I wish because Zimmerman but yeah I mean this is the flagship phone they clearly went flagship on several features ninety hurts that's flagship onscreen it's very pretty Do not like that a sixty-nine screen either it's also to me personally very confusing because I just did the you're not like well no no more mango like figure it out as a current toothpick guy former jewel user I will just tell you oh so do you spend the extra money to get something that specializes like comparable slash only slightly better at but you also get like the Google name-brand and as a pixel three on her I can tell you that it has a horrible battery all right we need we've been at this for forty five minutes as a quick break we'll be back with all the rest of the less bad but still mostly as bad and then there's like a you know there's the Pixel book which is Great Keyboard I always enjoyed I never you know gushed about the best chromebook you can buy the book and there are approximately ten I mean like it's more like six chromebooks that all have the exact same specs and mother we'll save democracy to mark soccer whatever he's GonNa do Paul every week you do a segment what's it called it's called the real crime teams is got it and then there's like a thinkpad keyboard and you know there's different levels of key travel but thinkpad keyboards have you know are mostly thought of as as very good the very quiet keyboard you guys the key part is so I love that we are now in his own where everyone is dunking apple keyboard regardless of the price point of the laptop they're putting in it could be completely wrong about this but I want my key to move so I know I have pressed the key but I don't WanNa work too hard Oh yeah this is like this is like typing on a springy cloud food like down to like the the placement of the micro SD card slot and this is like one step up from all of those but it also costs one hundred one hundred fifty dollars more than nations ban of said pods which is coming for them any side just don't know if this is the Ibon is this like a tide pods thing like if you tell if you tell teens like you have too much sugar in it and milk and eventually you enjoy the original tasted coffee like you never quite enjoy the taste of tobacco jewel pod it's always like a thing you do yeah so so I've felt a the baddest apple keyboard and then the new the new apple keyboard witches it makes me sadder they they made the headphones I wanted somebody to make assuming they're good so the Pixel Buds generation to that's not their actual name but uh-huh okay chromebook and four K. display that's where we live now and then they're doing the thing that every company is doing now which is they've made ecosystem lockton headphones ever notice that there's a common there it's like a you know comes where the crime is flavor and so you you you smoked tobacco pods despite it and it takes way long like you know how the first time you try coffee like yeah and then all of a sudden it they I I got to wear the hardware the hardware was not functional because they don't work yet it or not coming out until spring twenty twenty which is so where where would you put it in all that it's different it's they they make it a quiet it's an it's an evolution of the pixelbook original pixelbook keyboard they just made it quieter Paul we're going to your segment early because the third segment is soccer we're free speech and I am the everybody I don't think we can go from Paul's recurring despite the taste so it's literally if you're creating a forbidden fruit okay is it is literally talking pixelbook Oh has some on Bud controls right you can do stuff on the buds so that's good it says they do I tap them working do anything so like chameleon years from now especially because there's a holiday season with air pods to contend with in time and I they just have to sound good and they have good microphones that's where the the galaxy buds just fail if the galaxy had had good microphones I would just say that everyone should buy them so it feels softer but it's also spring so you don't get out of it so he liked that satisfying mechanical keyboard class like this you're not gonNa love this but if you don't care about that not told us we improve it I will say that he wisdom at US taunting lead in that interview but he didn't actually let's listen to him so it's a USB case with Nido about the teams that their crime I mean like the teams are going to do crimes it's just a fact are they gonNA do crimes using the new six hundred forty nine dollars pixelbook go want to travel quiet keys that like hit when you when you tap them with your finger you're GonNa love this I've only spent like an hour with it so like even farther than they claim so again we will have to see what is pair with a single tap me like the there's some sort of easy pairing with Andrews L. Let's charging that is relatively small. These are all things at the Samsung Buds Zoo. Yeah it's an ear but it's event so it doesn't feel too wacky so that's good so no inch and then they have a special Bluetooth radio that lets them work at massive distances and Google historically not good pixel to be the default android phone they got actually sell them but like it's a phone of that quality it's on all the carriers United States maybe that'll work out the pixelbook go feels like okay this it doesn't go nearly as far as the phone does but they will learn things that it could theoretically locally over time and not need to paying the Internet for them so let outside feeling insulated getting lots of town they have this feature called environmental audio with like the earbud sense when you're in a loud environment and just the volume of your phone they work with the assistant you can just say Google all the sounds great in theory they don't work yet rick Australia's word clip in your ear circles New Year the new thing that's like Microsoft may big circles fear glutamate little circles for a year that's what we're that's well I am was right sure works where you have a light bulb that talks to the Hugh Base station that goes up to the cloud at the talks to our cloud in our cloud says turn on is a great six hundred and fifty bucks it's really well made I party support this is the default chromebook that's great you suspect like fourteen hundred dollars which seems oh I mean what I like about it is I love the fact that in now the google ecosystem Google is making what appears to be the default devices right they're making a play for the data from your home and everything else we routines inside of the assistant and it's very smart we are just going to have to see how that plays that's a that is a big shift that stuff is a little bit more local I that is so hard to explain what's going on there but we are talking to Rishi Chandra and he's like look the current way the smart home where I five points the points have are basically a double tall Google mini speakers so they actually should theoretically a nest mini speakers got dammit not having another event so we just announced our that's fine there's a nest of I actually I don't think it's it goes back to their cloud back to that base he's like that is bad very bad for a million reasons we're going to get away from that so now they're doing this whole thing where they're going to audit vendors you need to see Patrick transition it doesn't work at all I think this thing is it's actually pretty that's what I got Yep I don't like it as a sixty event the the the promises the after the fifth time you turn on your lights it won't need to ask the service how to do that anymore. Yeah yeah they re architect works with NEST programs ask for that entire industry that to move that way and then there's obviously new nest Google WIFI messed Wi fi ness WIFI this Wifi router Bluetooth Dan Rick told us I don't know but he said they'd worked really hard on the Pixel bluesy stack and that compared with the new pixel the pixel buds actually the bleeding edge no set-aside channel for back haul But they google says they don't need it they like they're like we figured out how to how to you know route massage traffic on the a third parties like joggers made like anchors might jailbirds there's there's a couple others that that use it it's basically what you expected pops up big bike bubble ah I think android ended up has easy pair situation and I think mostly the p the previous pixel buds use them these pixel buds will use them. I don't know some some random real bad like I was I'm I'm actually super bummed about this it'll be the newsletter this morning when you are listening to this tomorrow time is hard in November that's very exciting it turns out there that stadium controller plugged in an awful lot it's like it's only wireless views chrome cast yeah strange to me interesting like the new nest many you can imagine a wall because as look he'll slot cool sounds a little bit better they do some local machine learning it's not as WanNa go by the two pack on Amazon we don't know what it costs and we also won't come at the point with the assistant it because Amazon refuses to sell speakers they're making me as well yeah and they look cute router fight is on dancy for does nothing but review routers lately and lastly the announced the launch date for stadia you can't convince America that airport sound bad so people are gonNA keep it's fine people love airports no disrespect of your personality you're GonNa call him something the New Pixel Buds the very small the Kinda like hearing aids split in little circles but they go in your ear they little Flange rivers that run the Internet Google so we think we can handle it with your your wifi network it's like okay the net gear just came out with some new very cheap orbis there's that are done ship early days a flagship story all right and that's all the Google stuff yeah I mean it was a lot we have a lot to review I'm sorry that I talked about the Oh by forty to seventy percent so why is that innovative industry driven technology take inspections a crucial part of managing works sensors to gather data even the most remote locations data scientists can use the data to make predictive models or simulate real world experience but thanks to technology it's now safer cleaner and easier your world world world explained today supply chain with new technology workers can inspect underground pipes at nearly microscopic levels teams can use drones equipped with imaging cameras or I expected because this thing had been shown often in Beta just out there for so long that they would just have this launch wrapped up and they're clearly don't wireless audio isn't working list so issues can be caught before they had all of this helps make the industry safer and more sustainable learn more about how the natural gas and oil industry is working towards responsibly developing the nation's resources can power past impossible dot org they sat these potentially some very good right I mean who knows who knows but Google says they fit the field base there like vented specially so you don't get the it has a picture of the the headphones then you tap parent you're done yeah that's cool I mean they're going to come out we'll see I mean like it's a long time from now so we'll see rewrite all this hey I'm as a client editor at large box and I am host of the new show impeachment explained which we're launching on Saturday October nineteenth we're living through history speak the thing that I was like ranted him in slack earlier today I was like this is the best part of the verge cast is just redeemer slacks as my own thoughts super well Now this you gotTa plug this thing in to work with your phone like there's like a bunch of like Oh yeah this doesn't quite work as well as the promise that have been leaking out over the past back so big news today Mark Zuckerberg gave a speech about free speech at Georgetown the US is leading the world and producing natural gas and oil while reducing emissions at the same time in some cases production grew by triple digits while emissions so I've got a little bit more airs they sound better who knows and two is supposed to cover the same space as three of Google Wifi it's two hundred seventy bucks for a two pack if you will it'll come out every Saturday after that so please subscribe and apple podcasts or Stitcher or get your podcasts AC- don't miss an episode gave it than what it said and I thought it was interesting in the way that it positions facebook against some of the other tech companies in Silicon Valley Right Yeah we're not we're not quite ready for it but it's as they say Peter early days hate you that's my podcast about and Mike how do you make sense of that and on the other hand impeach him brings up all these slow moving issues it don't make the headlines every day what is a high crime and misdemeanor like what did the founders meanwhile so over the past few weeks a big debate has broken out over in particular should facebook permit lies in political ads and workings of our diffusion conundrum for so long but it's on my mind dealers can figure it out sorry buddy all all they did was just basically out of what happened that week then also easing back half of the show to talk with an expert somebody's been studying this somebody who has an angle on the show begins again October Nineteenth on Saturday breath Warren has led the charge and saying they absolutely should not they are profiting from misinformation and there is a moral case against this company profiting from misinformation and wrote that how is partisan polarization playing and so we're going to try to put together show here it's GonNa hit both of these in their own way talking to box journalists who are covering this and making sense imagine you're inspecting oil pipeline the terrain is rugged roads are nonexistent pipe goes on for miles to difficult job adding you're hear Casey you're here you watched this thing Casey tell me what you thought of it I thought the speech was more interesting for wise October couldn't locate like a thesis but tell me what was it it was like forty minutes I mean when you think about the kind of televised speeches that leaders give it wasn't and it has these two weird speeds to it one is the stuff happening every day and every week like why are they talking about Australia and whose is like idiot ambassador to the EU tell me what it actually contained so Zuckerberg is released staking this next iteration of facebook's future on the idea that the company is about voice and to make a case for that and then in what was definitely the worst part of the speech he sorta ret conned the origin from being about the is an appeal to deal with it could you tell could you see the screen when you were scrolling at the hands on area could you see the ninety hurts could you see it be smoother yeah but I think that's only because basically just hasn't had that much to say about that so far and so this speech today from Zuckerberg was a way of saying look Polish wants to lie we think that there should be a record of that being a special to router pack just Amazon I like I mean I don't love that era got bought this consolidations bad breaking up it cetera inclusion and connection and that the company is making the bed that the world will get better if people are our people are connected and can share their voices and so he wanted yeah that was not the reason why facebook was started and certainly the existence of facebook didn't seem to have much effect on the you know unfolding of the Iraq war heads of state have given speeches in in DC. I didn't get to see the speech was in a meeting but I read some transcripts but Lee a counter moral case for physics decisions so give me just a sense of the speech itself he I it's very long I and we think that the citizens of the democracy should discuss it and it should not be incumbent on a private company to police that speech so he wanted to make essential uson in this country about whether that was a bad idea but if they protested on facebook facebook maybe it wouldn't happen. Let me play devil's advocate though which is the of a groundswell of public opinion that do seem like they have benefited from the viral machinery of social networks. Do we have to keep that in mind as we're weighing it against the helped like that social media could help the Arab spring or cases like this it's that Mark Zuckerberg certainly did not start it with the intention of doing that and that's how this opens so you too movement did not happen before a social media black lives matter did not happen for social media the Arab spring did not happen before social media right fair so there have been these number of when I was in college I had just gone to war in Iraq the mood on campus was disbelief event like we're acting without hearing a lot of important perspectives I feel like I could put a big asterix there but I'll just move on many obvious negative consequences I think this is the problem with the speech which is that he is making a lot of points that are good but in ways that are extremely disingenuous like the ridiculous thing is not that facebook could have the thing you know like genius where like you said stop and it just me screaming like a lot of people protested the Iraq war the rating of hot people on campus without actually started to being about away to let people protest the Iraq war which you know to be gets kicked out of Harvard I starting hotter not clone using facebook using photos on face mash which would later become facebook through a series of not being facebook after millions of people protest in October on the chief weapons inspector says there were no weapons of mass destruction in early November Mark Zuckerberg almost choice empowers the powerless and I decided we'd better back then I was building an early version of Ace but from my community another astros there's disease believes play out at a smaller scale I wanted what he wants to talk about like formative experiences in his life there's like the two years of college and like the stuff that happened to him while he was the CEO of one of the biggest companies in the world so he's kind of like I know you're like digging into it so i WanNa ask you but let me just read this is literally how it beginning I could not get past this when I was reading the transcript so here's here's October Lat Long I guess I'm only reading the transcripts I'm looking I'm like wow this is a lot of scrolling okay that's only forty minutes but I couldn't really grasp the thesis vet also facebook was explicitly it was one of the less broadcast folk and like voice focused things like the point was that you could become friends with a person that you had met on Eddy you're literally writing a piece about facebook's inception itself give us the sort of actual wall thing that happened so the time as we invade Iraq in March of two thousand three in the past like that's an example it's actually kind just read this is how the speech started yeah the low point is at the beginning of the speech and yeah like these points are also deeply true that we should just move on like the opening of the speech was a like a calamity I think the more interesting stuff is him campus like it was explicitly touted as a thing where oh yeah you're connecting with people you already know you are you this isn't like my space you're not going to try to put yourself off the toll on soldiers families are national severe and Missile Palace stop it I remember feeling that if more people out of voices share their experiences maybe things have gone differently those earlier shaped my belief that giving you disadvantage there it just kind of coming across as a normal person yeah it's true he can't be like when Yahoo wanted to buy my company something that we've all experienced she's done yeah it was the predecessor of Magin I mean I was in college at that time it gypped people on campus we're certainly talking about the war but there's no correlation here and I think there's a star it's to help people get to know each other it's like a yearbook yeah and there was no news feed there was no engine vitality hated the news feed when it started did strike me I was saying before we got started there's almost something pointed about the fact that Mark Zuckerberg has no lived life experience like Inbetween College and starting facebook and Tame Asana no Wifi six in the routers reach to list it's just not ready yet Eero famous also does not have life I six so if you're you're trying to live you some indication the data that it's that it's actually been activated that's your hotel you know so you just have to like examined with a magnifying glass now that there's a couple of weeks and it's a huge bummer. I think this is going to be the story of a cloud game I mean we're in the well yeah execute backside jets called dot com tried to the hands on with a Beta for that and it also is like uh-huh to diverge everybody we're thinking break we'll be back with Casey in this situation this is advertiser content we are going to just have to do all kinds of horrible things that we Americans like and facebook by virtue of the fact that it was never allowed in the first place has this wide open lane -sition evening facebook as a moral leader at a time when other companies are deeply compromised by their relations to China and free speech on political subjects including soft that I don't agree with it makes me super uncomfortable right and at the same time you look at what apple is about and then it conflates face ability to moderate in a difficult environment with some difficult trade offs with its size right like one mm sort of unifying moral banner rallying cry that will still entice college seniors who are smart to want to work there to me that's that's like the backdrop for all of this but you know somebody who's been watching all of these companies just trip over themselves with regard to China I I think one of the more subtle claims here is that only by achieving its size and scale can facebook even begin to handle the moderation challenge of the modern in for them to say he cares about free speech here are the difficult trade offs yes to make so to make it clear that he is not trying to censor it goes through you look at what blizzard is already going through there are so many you know American companies that that have Chinese ownership interests and they're like he said well if he'd have to censor to comply with local laws but now that he's not there this is so convenient like Josh Holly is not buying this read I do see this moderators could get a grip on it they've been playing catchup ever since so yes I agree the size is the real issue it's the thing that nobody ever wants to talk about because the unstated logic and all of this is important things one facebook is not all of social media in the Casey makes most broadly is for social media to exist not necessarily for face to exist sator against big tech he just met with Soccer Berg and so he his response to the speech was a series of tweets being like when I'm in China like I am on facebook site here in in that specific way I do want to see a social network that allows a wide range of net and I think everybody listening to this knows I don't believe that necessarily that facebook needs that scale but this casing audio you had he speech as soccer trying to rally the Conservatives who are always complaining about conservative bias were always complaining about censorship around him the revenue IPO so he's making this implicit case for facebook to be huge. When the truth is like your problem scale with your size facebook had zero content moderators when it was at Harvard right but then they brought more people into the platform and those people cause problems and then they had to hire people to like go clean up those messes and then eventually the problems became far worse than there please let us find an ideology that will let us maintain the status quo right and like that is what does this is a way like how can facebook exist as it is today but under some if you believe that this is happening but it is he's actually on their side and that is I think very clever but I it conflates two very horizon is just actually Chinese company took yes like there could be no better time for tick tock to have emerged as I was walking into the studio he can kind of go wave that flag and guess who can't Tim Cook Tim Cook's in a wave that flag when he wants to notably the one true big competitor on the point out the election safety team they spend more on it than twitter's entire revenue than everyone laughed in this one he points out that they're moderation effort costs more than their revenue at Launch League Zuckerberg is smart to see that he has an open lane when it comes to championing a a sort of a very foundational American value pro tech crunch put up an article that says a tick tock mix education pushing India and in my mind like the education pushes have you heard about chairman she and what a great guy he is each including speech of the of the variety that I think you know sitting in this podcast for all agree is super innocuous and so you know like again yeah that's not what the stories about but yeah you have a very fast growing social network that is explicitly banning political? I like this whole thing is such a gift to mark Zuckerberg right my entire twitter timeline all morning has been media twitter just sorta like dunking on the speech being lagged walk through the middle of and say well now I do agree we need to take down the stuff that that is inciting violence but broadly speaking we want to invite a maximum range of free speech and like sort of on accident mark Zuckerberg gets to be a free speech champion the other point that I wanted to make is when it comes to this fight over censorship right if you if you had a Republican presidential candidate who was not prone to lying in the way that trump lies like maybe the shape of this debate is Mark Zuckerberg you need to be censoring more you know and like there's sort of creating a perfect bogeyman for him to be able to ends without a hundred year history of being ABC News and vetting political ads against a set of standards like they don't have this long range policy or this long range institutional history of this is what we do this is how we're we're sticking your guns right like we're we're important where the fourth elites in two thousand twenty the is trump is extremely prone to line that is a very hard position to be in after the two thousand sixteen election after the Russian interference take talk if you WanNa be mad about censorship on social networks right so this entire debate has been a gift to mark Zuckerberg well he also implied basically that Elizabeth Warren and everyone who criticize I find it honestly incredible that we're having a discussion over essentially whether the the elected officials of this country and the politicians this is facebook for fake news ads

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The Five Stages to Advancing Your Photography

This Week in Photo

43:28 min | Last month

The Five Stages to Advancing Your Photography

"People talk back to another episode of this week and photo. Your host frederik van johnson. Once again. I have a really good friend of mine on the hot seat. Turns out. i've known this man for. I'm not going to tell you how it's been a long time. They've mark over he is He knows more about photography than you know than disallowed about photography gotten more about photography than i know right now so so he knows his stuff. He's an ace interviewer. He's got amazing. Youtube channel and he writes books on photography as well and one of his books. That's out there is called advancing your photography. We're going to talk about one chapter from that book the fight. Yeah that one five stages of photography just what that looks like. So marc zuber. Welcome to the show man. It's good to see you. it's good to catch up. Are you doing frederick. Always good to be with you and yeah we go back. you know. it's like we're in the teens. How far we go back to where we first met when we were doing a show of our my first interview with ansel adams son at mansell's home. Wow was that cool in started. We got to go in touch ansel adams in larger sacred. We got a whole story into it. So yeah it is cool. So michael adams. If you're watching this hello we got to catch up. Yeah hello yeah. That was good. So yeah the so. There's a there's a ton of stuff to talk about like we have a long and storied history of knowing each other and kind of moving through the industry but you. You have been hung your hat on educating photographers in kind of scaring your learnings to shortcut their learnings right down the road. And you've built advancing or photography so talk about that whole brand the whole advancing photography brand. What's that all about. Yeah what it's all about frederick. A long time ago. I was doing workshops live workshops and and one time somebody videoed me and it had legs and also i thought wow you know instead of just teaching to however many people are in this room and that room could be huge. It could be w. p. p. i. Size or could be thirty people. You're still limited to the number of people you can reach physically and all of a sudden. The video world opened up that and i thought wow. This is an amazing way to teach people. But i like to go. Not just what comes out of my mouth of what's my experience but what's worked for other. You know major photographers. Starting with ansel adams. Annie liebowitz believe it or not. Those were the tour's first two videos that we created. Yeah and i. I try to basically distill from what i learned from them into very bite sized pieces and i've done over a thousand hours of interviews while it's a lot of work it is is right up there with your buddy right up there. It's up there you know and who wants to watch. I'm not gonna make people watch at thousand hours of interviews to learn what i learned. So i distill that down. That's that's the brand is like. I'm distilling wisdom that i've also tested myself. I know it works. And i put it in the form of you know either my books and my classes and i am what you said is true. I'm trying to shortcut this learning curve for people by by helping them get to the basic things that really do work for these top pro photographers myself. Included you're like what i d like the lewis and clark of photography right. That's lower. yeah. I'm exploring because so others don't have to go off the cliff. You know you can. Just take what i say. Save yourself a lot of time dive into this. So the title of this episode five david. Five stages of photography is based on the first chapter in your book and you do a presentation on this and all that and the take us through that so i want to dive into in this time. I want to dive into each one of these little segments a big segments actually and then have you explode them so take us through that. What are the five stages yeah. So here's the visual right. Okay so what you've got. Here is word. Visualization at the center. What does that even mean. Visualization means seeing. Something in your mind. That isn't necessarily present in the in the real world and get an idea you get your your mental image of it and ansel adams said the whole key to a photograph. You can see this on my youtube channel. He said the whole key to a photograph is visualizing it before you press the shutter. There's a lot to this. I mean i have an introduction to here. But i've written a whole chapter actually several chapters abou- what does it mean to visualize a photograph. You get an idea and that could be. I'm going to go to the mountains. I'm gonna go to yosemite. And i wanna come away with these beautiful photographs of half dome. That's my vision. I've had visions of of how i wanna do portraiture but i get an idea beforehand. And then you build from that idea. It's visualization you you. You are not just pressing shudder randomly with it. If you think of it like you're gonna take a trip somewhere last september. My wife and i took a road trip. You couldn't take a plane trip so we took a road trip and we drove from emma. I live in carmel. We drove from carmel up through northern california through nevada. Utah ended up in northern herb midway in montana and then came back and i photographed the entire process. So i visualize this trip. We planned it out which meant that. We knew where we're going. We knew what we wanted to look for. Even had some storylines in mind that i wanted to photograph. Now that's really different than saying and that's way more productive than saying i'm going to just get in the car and just see where and you could do that. But i think your chances of success diminish because you don't really have this thing figured out it's so that's what visualization means. It's like getting the idea before you press the shatter very mindful in your photography. Love that and it's and i've heard that i've heard that privatization thing before a lot a lot of photographers and tell me what you think about this. A lot of people say well you know. I don't want to put myself in a box. And it's all about serendipity and chance and i don't wanna miss out on a shot. Because i was too single minded about the shot that i was getting. Would you say that those folks that are like i don't i don't want to be on rails i just i just want to go out there and capture the world as it presents itself to me. I you know. I actually agree with that. And i think there is a lot to serendipity but even that has its provisions asian if you boil it back and you go. Why did you decide to go to that location to begin with. Let's take henri cartier or soft the master of capturing the moment i mean. That was his decisive moment right. That's cardiac or song. And you could say well. He didn't pre visualize he was pressing the shutter. I beg to differ. He knew where would be a photo rich environment. Any went there with an idea the what he wanted to capture. Which was this decisive moment. Maybe he didn't know that that particular detail would occur. But i guarantee you he preconceived and he by the way you could visualize something in a split second you go. Whoa bam press the shutter right. Now that that occurred in a millisecond. But there's still this mental radar. The you had that said. I need to pay attention here. You know robert. Holmes bob holmes who. I've interviewed a lot. Amazing national geographic photographer travel photography of the word year. Award like five times. Amazing photographer says go into an environment. You just smell. There's a photograph. I know that right. You smell it. There's something going on. Well they're even that's a bit of a pre visualization so. I don't want people to think that it's a long laborious process. You've got to put everything on a try. I'm not advocating that. And i'm not advocating everybody being in rails and being in a box. It's it's a way to free yourself and go. Wow i am going to go to this environment. And i'm gonna come away and these are. These are some of the ideas. I have so when i see them. I recognize him and i go with so. That's my answer to that. This applies to all genres photography right. Not just laying in you know in nature but also factor in court churn. Sports never Yeah so have walked photography. Yeah like rock photographer could go. I understand what the stage looks like. You know they've already visualized it and they think well if i stand in the press box with all the other hundred photographers. I'm gonna get a photograph. Like pretty much. Looks like them. What if i could get and i've done this. What if we could get backstage and shoot from the side again. This at the monterey jazz festival and or even they have holes in the back where you can shoot through and see like a really intimate shod of the of the musicians. That's kind look really different. Than if i'm out here with a big long telephoto lens everybody else. That's not so cool so it's like knowing how to how to get that edge. Chris burkhardt mentioned that you know. He's an amazing photographer. Has got four million people following on instagram for reason. He's just really a great photographer but his point was that you know he's shooting sports shooting surfing and there's thirty guys standing on a cliff all next to each other by bam bam obama bam. He's what. Why would i want to do that so he goes he. Visualize what have i walked over from this angle. And i'm the only guy there and i get the photograph from that. Maybe i can get a cover shot. He did you. that's another way of visualizing it's like kodak you remember back in the day kodak painting those little little spots on the ground. Stand here to take avoidable. Yeah that's the place not to stand right exactly. That's exactly what that is the shot that everyone else gets. Stand on this spot. That's what it meant and that's not to have a brand because the brand is about differentiating yourself from everybody else. So let's move from the from the after you visualize then the next thing you need to know as your equipment and there's no shortcut for that you do have to know your camera and you you know if you use it as a tool of creativity to take your vision and turn into a photograph. That's the proper way to use it. What i have a beef with people. Who just geek out on cameras. And that's all they do. I mean i get it. People do that with cars right they geek out on cars and you're driving them their collectors items in their garage or something. Okay but just just label it for what it is. You're collecting cameras using. But you gotta know your quip you gotta know your lands. You gotta know what your camera sees. That's really key component right. Your cameron does not see what your icees guaranteed first of all. Our field of vision is enormous right and our range of dynamic range is. I'm almost unlimited because are just keep suggesting all the time so we have to know. This camera will capture this way in this lighting condition and that comes from testing and shooting. And just knowing. So if you've got a vision in your mind and you use your camera correctly you should be able to capture that the way you envisioned. Yeah that's not your and that's your lands your lighting your camera. Tripod all that stuff. What are you saying about like the this this whole relentless pursuit of gas riot gear acquisition syndrome. If so we know what happens with too much gas comes out. We know easily and smelly. Yeah and you annoy everyone around you right. It's the so of that. How do you get out of that. Get off of that roller coaster of i need the next best thing. That camera focuses faster. This one has a larger sensor or that light. Does this thing you know. How do you get out of that well. I think that's why this process that. I'm going over as so important because you have to realize you're you're an artist you're not just artists don't you know picasso didn't obsess over the brushes that he had you know how this is amazing brush. I bet you never even talked about them. You know but yet he probably had the best brushes in the world but he knew how to use them and use them as an art form. So i'd say if somebody stuck in that syndrome just look at these cameras here. These are amazing cameras that you could do anything in the world with. There's a role affleck's there's a leica. These are fifty years old. This is a you know hospital. These are great cameras. They're not the newest you can do. Amazing work with this. Just step out of that for you. Know and that that's the thing we're in a very consumer driven field. Let's face it. Yeah okay i get. Hey wow that's a cool central you know i. It's easy to get suckered into that but but just back away. Don't do that. I used to do something when people would show up my workshops the first day you know multi day workshop. I give him disposable cameras. I'd say the first day you're gonna shoot with this disposable camera there's nothing to geek out about. Was one of those few remember those fuji. I don't even know they still make up the camera and everything and then you. You sent the cameron got so they could not keep out. I wanted there. I present framing key tools. Things like that so get away from the gas. Yeah get away from the gas. Take a gas x. In key break- gas it says. Does you no good so anyway. Once we know our me do need to know your equipment. Okay that's different obsessing about it and by the way when you're switching your equipment all the time you're doing yourself a big disservice because as you and i know every new time every new camera you get. There's a new learning curve. And if you are switching lenses and cameras and digital you're adding all these variables constantly and your work. It's not gonna pay off. Don't do that you never give you. Never get to know the gear intimately so that you can understand how it will perform in different situations. It's kind of a problem. I think that a lot of people have with with zoom lenses versus prime lintas prime lens. You understand when you when you look at something you your brain knows what that frame is gonna look like with the zoom. There's a lot of variation in there so you never really get one hundred percent lockstep intimate with the lands because it's so variable by design right. That's true yeah see you gotta watch out for that okay. The next next part of this is capture. Capture means lighting and composition primarily. And you need to know the tools of that. I teach people you know. I wrote this book about composition here and has got eighty three composition tools in it and i say tools not rules like there is no rule of third where the photography police are going to give you a ticket because you framed it right in the middle. I've seen the most brilliant photographs frame. Dench dead in the center. Yeah right. I've seen the the the the guideline of thirds whatever we wanna call. I've seen at words but if you follow formula in your in your composition it's gonna look like you follow the formula you know it's like cooking right if you're if you're if you're cooking looks like it was like paint by numbers or out of a box it's it's gonna have that it's gonna taste that way right. That's why you have these great chefs. Who can bend things around and they learn fusion and whatnot. And it's it's amazing. They took some risks. So composition is guidelines that you can use or not the iding similar lighting one one beautiful form of lighting that i really recommend people vermeer lighting. I have a window here. Most of what you're seeing is live because this one window. I do have an led over here balancing but you can do amazing work with one light source. Yeah yeah i people get lost to write mean with that because you'll get online and you see these amazing photographers producing stunning stunning shots. And they've got a bunch of lights out there or you look at you know an anti league or somebody in a big studio in new york and there's this and there's that light and then there's little here lied and then there's a rim light and then there's this if you want that kind of quality. The logical conclusion is that. I need that kind of equipment to do that. You're saying you know. I have peter early on my show. I love peter's a good friend of mine was the yeah the squinched right so what. A great guy is an eighty bump this whole thing. He showed his little startup studio. He didn't have had no lights. He is reflectors from one window. Setup and then he got one light got really good at it. So that's if you're gonna use studio lighting start with one light source in this case of a window is going to produce flattering light. It's good to know all the different types of natural light that you can shoot in you know. Obviously we know about the golden hours. There's a blue. Our that occurs after the golden errors were. The sky gets very blue. That can be an amazing way to shoot so knowing these things. That's all part of capture of boom of good again. That's that's all driven by your vision. Right you go. I'm standing by this river. And its got this beautiful s curve in it in its leading up to the grand tetons. Wow i'm going to shoot that right. There is my vision and in the night. Capture it accordingly subaru. Before you move onto the next one here. Just a quick question on on visualization. How deep do you think in. Your opinion should photographers go with that. We're going with that is. There's a ton of out there we've got these smartphones with and all them these apps tiger i famous photo pills etc that can tell us where the sun's gonna be where the moon is going to be where the milky way is going to be where the shadows are going to fall on any particular location on earth at any of the year right. Should they get to that level of minutia win planning and say. I want the milky way. Just between those two buildings. I'm going to go on the twelfth of march this lind's and all that or or how they get. I kind of leave that up to each individual. I do use certain tools like i love clouds photographs when i'm doing landscapes so i look at the weather. I look at my weather app. I think that's a helpful tool. Like i don't wanna blue sky. I want weather right so the weather app says okay. It's gonna be cloudy and it's going to clear off by such and such a time okay. I'm gonna go out when it's cloudy. Those are good tools. I again anything can be taken to an extreme and you can out on or whatever i do feel like. Research is a huge component. Who your photography that you should take advantage of. What's already been known what's known about that place that you're going to go shoot. You know what. I went to paris. Obviously i knew. I had seen certain things that i wanted to photograph. And you have to come up with your own twist on it like when you take iconic photographs like the eiffel tower or half dome or new york city. Whatever that's been photographed a zillion times come up with your own unique vision for it. And what about can i a new contamination versus inspiration zoom by that is in preparation to go to yosemite and take pictures of half dome you could. You could go down one path. That says you know what i need to go. Look at a bunch of shots. So i can get inspired on what i wanted. Shoot so i can do my shot a little bit differently. And then the other path the contamination path is. I don't wanna look at anybody else shot. Because i don't want those shots influencing my shot. And i don't want i don't want it subconsciously. Recreate what they did. Would what do you think about that. I think it lies somewhere in between you know. I you know i think the more you look at filmmakers like quentin tarantino worked at blockbuster right and when he was working there he watched movies a most of the time. I don't know if he had a night. Shift thing or something. Most of the time. He didn't have anything to do but watch movies. He watched everything in blockbuster. Okay well this guy. Has this visual library like huge steven spielberg same thing. You man every thing in his visual library so whether he uses it or not or whether he likes it or not least he knows kind of what the range is out there. I find most photographers that that are really really good. Have a vast vocabulary. Not just a photography but classical art as well. And i find. It's really helpful. I give class about this. Joey al who is an amazing photographer and he got started on the twilight film when he was sixteen years old. Steady was steve mccurry member. This will but he got he you know. His inspiration is classical art. He says he looks at the framing that they artists used rembrandt for mere mere You know Different artists and uses that in in his composition and his lighting. So i i think that really helps. And i as far as contamination. I get it you may be. Don't want to be moved to do something that you think is copping but i did another interview. That's pretty interesting with You know the story of the beatles. They they started off trying to emulate the everley brothers. They liked their harmonies but nobody could ever know ever accused the beatles of sounding like the everley brothers. They just took that and made it into their own brand. Yeah yeah so. that's what i say. Microsoft used to say they don't steal the embrace. Extend steve jobs said steel so he was. He was maybe more honest. You're moving onto next. So that's a good segue from you know you're you're saying when you go out and show you look for clouds a these days. Speaking can replace skies. Woody sky purist or do you let the tech takeover you and i had this discussion in twenty two thousand and eight. I don't know if you remember that cause your ob then but had it worked pretty hard to do. Cloud replace sky. replacement comes in photoshop. now. And i've i've played with it. I can't say that. I'm not satisfied with it to me. I can't fool myself. So i i'm the first customer that has to be impressed and as as much as there are times where i just wish there was a cloud in the sky. I don't know. I'm not sure the jury's out on that i i would for me i'm a little too much of a purist to embrace it. I i'm sorry to say but it's a tool that i may find myself using. I dunno it's possible there. You ladies and gentlemen you heard it here first mark. Silver has out. I haven't really. Yeah i mean. I'm not shooting documentary photo journalist. Foda's time i'm talking about a landscape. Look at it kinda like processing audio shooting a film. And there's some bad audio and i can salvage it through you know processing on correctly i will of course anyway. That's a little that's different. I'm a little more of a purist. I i tend to stick with what's already there but processing your images comes as the next stage of this and processing has its own visualization to it. You know you may have captured a photograph and not thought about whether it was gonna be black and white or color for instance but you get back and you put on your computer and you go. This would really really look good as a black and white boom. That's a new vision. And i'll do that. I do that all the time. And i'm i love black and white photography. I shoot a lot in color but sometimes go. This is just stronger as a black and white photograph. And i wanna process it with as much of a dynamic range as i can get out of it. You know ansel adams taught me that the zone system. Right and i want blacks. I wanna really dark black. Are whites and i want everything in between so i try to do that in my processing and for whatever it is you got process your images. I don't think there's any photo that comes out of any camera. Perfect ready to go as much as they try. You know like apple with iphones and all the tech. That goes into every shot that you press. It's amazing and macy's getting pretty close but it still means a little bit of a little bit of salt on their from the photography. It's your little tweak. Oh and then the final part of this is sharing which is getting your workout to the world. And that's a really fulfilling thing. Just leave it on your hard drive or lead on your phone or you leave it on imprint in a box or something you're never gonna feel that satisfaction of showing your work to other people. Let them see it. And i don't just mean social media to me social media's like fast food because people are going by like this. How fast do they look at your image right. And they click a and they go on to the next. I'm talking about making prints putting him on the wall making books making putting them in videos. That's a really cool way to use your photos. Photos share them with the world. Put him in shows. Enter our chose Make your own blurb books. Whatever do something that that makes that a body of work that you can then showed other people. That's the final part of the process. Yeah you know with that with. So i keep going back to the visualization because that was brilliant. What you said about that. So how much should photographers begin with the end in mind. So you mentioned the sharing piece right so the ultimate goal for this shot or the series of photos. I'm doing are going or instagram. Or the ultimate goal for this shot of half dome and you'll city is going to be big. I wanna make a big print put in my living room. And that's going to inform my mission out there and the composition and all that because i know the color palette of the living room i want browns. Yeah should should. The end should the the end justify the means. Actually it's interesting. You bring this up. Because i'm gonna do a show about this on thursday. I have a webinar. Doing i believe yeah. I believe that. The ansel adams said you should visualize all the way through to the final print. Where's this going to go. Is it going on. Your wall is it. One of those enormous screen member in his living room had those three huge panels. Maisy going in a book. Where it's it's a landscape and there's gonna be a gutter right down the middle of it. I mean i'm just saying this is what the pros do. They have to visualize the the end. Product is going to go on a shirt right. Yeah yes six resolution. The whole nine yards right. Yeah i think you should think it all the way through and the more you do that. I think the better your work is going to get so. It's not random. Let's answer to that question. I love it arcade. So let's segue into into speaking of in result where we're nearing the end of this interview. Yeah this book advancing your photography that you have out now. You've got a unique way of selling this book. Right tries to talk about that interested in the marketing side of me wants to know okay. So this book. I actually give away to people. If you cover the postage in the shipping we will basically you get it for free. So the postage in the shipping are handling all the stuff that goes into it. Because the stuff that you don't see besides just putting the postage on it. Is we have to ship it somewhere. We pay for that shipping we pay for the whole little assembly line so they're shipping and handling so basically i'm for nine ninety seven in the us. You can get this book which is about half price if you were on amazon. Right now in the Any international orders nineteen ninety. Seven costs a lot of money for us to ship outside of the country. It's a bunch of stuff that goes in. You've got to put a customs order in there. It's a bunch of work so we'll help you cover. That part of it will will give you the book and we have a link for that. It's advancing your photography dot com. That's easy way to find it. Easy is the book available as a as an e book or pdf or only hard. It is available in many every form that you can imagine. It's available as an e book a pdf which you can also. I should put the actually go to my website. You you'll find the various forms that's silver studios dot com. It's also available as an audio book through audible. Know who did the nurse. A guy in england. Yeah he did to my books. Yeah is name is kev. Oldman in england and was cool as i collaborated with him. You know because my publisher basically hired him. We work together. I also have it as a visual book as well. I have a course. An entire course where i've taken this and you get to see me mark solar about upside down mark silver. Not just narrating. But i'm actually. I'm telling you everything that's in here but you know like every author you only wrote down a certain amount and the rest of it is still in your head so you get to hear all those other like bonus things that i didn't put in the book and that's also available through my website. You can see that as well but the first thing to start with is get this physical copy. I want people to have the physical copy. Because there's a different feel to a book when you when you hold it in your hands and you see the prince and you can mark the pages and you can put it in your camera bag. I made it the size. You could carry a with you. Yeah so you have the material right there with you and ninety seven night twisted twisted your arm to allow me to give out the first chatto hurting vaccine so the the first chapter of the book. We're giving away on this week and photo dot com so in this episode. If it's if you're coming to the site later after this published just search for mark silver and you'll find it But you know the you can you can grab the first copy or the first chapter of the book and then go ahead and purchase it for shipping. Only right so easy. No reason not to grab it. It's free so exactly. I want you to have it and it does give you the outline that i just ran through with you. Basically in the pedia. And love. That i love. So what's next. What's next year always up to something man. What is what is next on your agenda. I'm creating courses. My last book i wrote is called create. Which is about the creative process. And so i'm creating a course around. This book are actually a series of courses. So that's my next. That's my next big project. And you know i have a membership group that we meet together once a week to paid membership called p. Plus a y p advancing your photography and like right. Now i have the monitor challenge a twenty eight day challenge to create a project and we critique them every week. It's really awesome. Because you know they're getting feedback. Talk about the sharing part over here. You're sharing with with a group of like minded people who aren't afraid to tell you what they see so that's another project that i'm doing is teaching. I'm teaching all the time. Basically one way or another. yeah. I love it. You're you're i'm a big proponent of community as well and community feedback with with peer oversight in also. You're in their kind of railing. The cats as it were and coming back on others. I have a community as well and that the magic that happens inside of those environments is different than what happens kind of in a public forum where people are that. You have a paid private area. It's almost like i call it the analogy. I uses the airport lounge. Go into the airport and hanging out at the gate or go into the airport. Lounge cost a little bit more. But oh my god. Is it worth it right. Yeah you got your american express card and they let you in no absolutely. It's a really good analogy because yeah otherwise you're out there and there's broadcasts going on and interruptions and people coming going and we'll know people have to talk. Yeah i agree. And i find that. It's emulating what. I did in art school where we came together. Once we all had projects we came together once a week. We put our photographs on the wall and the group went around and critique them and you know this is your first opportunity to see what resonates in what doesn't what questions people have. You don't have to accept it all but at least you're putting your work out there and that's really important. I one hundred percent agree with that. I think just the creating stuff in a vacuum is is discouraging because your feedback. You don't know what you did right. You know what you did wrong in if you get if you just show it to friends and family. They're always going to say it's amazing so in light. Listen as much as we're all we you know who doesn't like i mean we like them. But what is this really. Tell you nothing right. There's no feedback. There's no you know. Like the kind of feedback i give people is usually less is more you know. They've got a beautiful frame image. But there's something over on the edge. It's just pulling my attention off like it doesn't need to be there. That's a classical thing and photography. Mistake that i see is too many things included in the photograph. You look at pros. They tend to simplify as a rule. The either through depth of field or cropping cropping with their feet moving in a little tighter sometimes they move back a little more. You know those are. Those are interesting tools you can use. It was interesting as i remember a friend of mine. Alex lindsay used to say because he's very plugged into the visual effects industry in hollywood worked on star wars. You know the whole nine hundred and he used to say that probably still does say that every frame of a film in every thing in that frame in every camera move and every light placement. Everything that you see is one hundred percent intentional. There are no mistakes total in in the film so translated. Yeah translate that into your photography. That shot everything. That's in that frame that you choose to present as a finished piece. Everything in that every pixel should be there on purpose with intent. Right yes and i was. I tell people we had this conversation in my community. About during our critique sessions we were talking about how the edges of the frame are magnetic. I like to think that the frame is being magnetic to your eyeball right. So if you have something trump to the edge you're going to veer the eyeball often. It's going to stick to the ed so you have to keep the magnetism on the subject as much as you. Yes so. I even look at my frame you you know. I'm violating that. Because i have this camera here with the shiny like an it's shiny and it's off to the edge of my frame that that you wouldn't want to do that with a photograph because it our is going to go to the shiniest thing right so that hero absolutely right scanning the whole frame once not in your camera but scanner again when you're processing it because you can always burn the edges. That's a very classic photography tool right. Burn your edges. The reason that old time photographers did that is because they wanted to keep the magnetic frame from pulling your eyes out. That's that burning it in or or you know doing a white vignette whatever bring to the focus in. Yeah think of focus magnetism. You know. you're don't don't spread it out. I could talk forever. I love what. I'm coming down to carmel. At some point we're going to hang out and have a coffee. We absolutely zombies. Go away so getting closer to that. Every day we are. We are very much so so one final time. If people want to check out the book they want to go to your website. They wanna see what you're working on. Where should they go. Advancing your photography dot com and i think you probate. You'll probably put that your l. Pretty domino for everybody. So that's how you get the book. Go to my website. Silber with a b s i l b e r studios dot com and. Also go to my youtube channel. If you search for mark silver so just go to youtube mark silver. You'll find that channel and same thing with instagram pretty much you can find me by typing. My name in the internet will pop up. I guarantee you. There's a lot of mark silver stuff out there and it's mostly about meeting. There's another guy that spells his name the same way as a musician in berkeley. We laugh because someone has gotten some of his emails from an old girlfriend. That was kinda cute mark. Remember that time we were in detroit together. I'm like what and your wife has access to your email. That wouldn't be good. We straighten that out right away. It was pretty funny all right. Mark silver for coming on. Always a pleasure catching pleasure fred. Congratulations all these things you. You're working on love it that you have this sort of lifelong unquenchable desire to educate others about photography and light light fires of enthusiasm in new photographers across the globe. So thank you for doing that. Appreciate thank you frederick. Pleasure being a new show.

ansel adams frederik van johnson marc zuber Annie liebowitz frederick carmel henri cartier Holmes bob holmes Chris burkhardt bam bam obama kodak Youtube michael adams mansell cameron mark silver Joey al northern california Foda
TCF Ep. 502 - Sarah Leen

The Candid Frame

57:35 min | 1 year ago

TCF Ep. 502 - Sarah Leen

"In the fourteen years of the candid frame. We have featured many conversations with photographers who've worked for National Geographic magazine. Each conversation has provided wonderful insights into what's involved in producing images for magazine that is set the bar for visual storytelling but the photographs in Nat Nat. Go exist not because photographer just traveled to some exotic location. The work is a collaboration of a team of researchers. The Writers and Photo Editors Sarah Lean in their career with the magazine has worked as both the photographer and the photo editor. She brings a of wealth of experiences and wisdom about understanding the language of photography. I have been looking at people's work and there. There's some photograph and it's a beautiful image but they're piling on so much on that picture so this is my climate change and it's showing about this and it's about that and actually it's not in the texts will be or the caption will be but the picture it's actually more simplistic in terms of what it can do. And what it's actually say and having people understand that difference I think is really important. Like what's the Tiger Fay's speak so emotionally. It's is all about your emotions especially if you don't have any texts with them and you're just like I when I look at People's work I don't want to really know anything about it. I I WANNA WANNA see what does it say to me. You know just visually. We'll talk to Sarah about the life. She's led both photographer and an editor and how she pulled. Hold off her first assignment for National Geographic. This is e buddy at X.. And welcome back to the candidate for him Welcome to the show. It's really a pleasure to have you and take a chance to talk with you because you have such a a wonderful experience as a photographer as an editor and I like having a conversation with people who have worn multiple hats during their career. Because they think it's an incredible wealth of knowledge and wisdom to be had. So thank you for making the time for us. That's great my pleasure I think yeah. I've been really fortunate. I've had a really great ride so one of the questions at the Dolphin posed to photographers is like when did you fall in love with photography in terms of their particular photograph but so much of your career has been abound. How telling stories with photograph in your role photojournalists and as an editor and my question to you is do remember? Remember a photo story photo essay. That really made an impression on you early on when I was in Journalism Eliza School at the University of Missouri. We were fed a pretty healthy diet of the Early Life Magazine Photographers Story Stories Stories. So I was very much struck by you know the WGN Smith. Bill Epp Ridge and in Mary Ellen Mark for sure I would say when I was in school seeing Mary on Mark's work from India and hearst circuses and her the prostitution district India Calcutta and that made a huge impression on me. Mary Allen's work and also early. Annie Liebowitz work. We're both were one. Of course there are women which kind of said to me okay you can do this. And here's some opportunities and I just also in I love Mary Ellen's storytelling and how she committed for like really huge amounts of time over years and years and years and she used every travel opportunity to keep the building on her stories which I thought was really smart but I thought when I saw that work that there was a path half to a life that could get you almost anywhere you know through any door which was a huge huge appeal for me as well. Yeah I mean those those people are just amazing. Examples not only is photographers. You could greet singular stunning stunning imagery. But who could put together a series of images that would really have impact beyond what a solo photograph could ever do. And and yesterday I went to a friend who was exhibiting some work us a photo he was just recently retired photojournalist Halton Seaney from the Pasadena Star News and he and along with two other photographers shared. They're working wedding. One of them went back to the early sixties so there were several generations of photojournalists who had documented in our town here and one of one of the displays was just some tear sheets of the paper where they would have the the photo essay of you know a fire that had happened there and I realized that hike so I don't see that is often that used to be such a lynchpin of of my on learning as a photographer was being able to look at several pages in. How do you bring together these photographs not just so? They complement each other visually but there are telling a story. They're telling a narrative and what were some of the things that we were really key for you as you were coming up as a photographer that you needed to understand so that you could be serve effectively as a as a photographer grading getting these images. But also later collaborator with an editor to make those selections. I would say just back. To the School of the Universe Misery Journalism School there was definitely enter an emphasis on storytelling. And then a couple of my early newspaper jobs in the at the Topeka Capital Journal with Rich Clarkson at the small paper in Columbia Missouri and onto the Philadelphia Inquirer there was always. I felt like an emphasis persists on creating more than that single image while you'd definitely are doing that as a newspaper photographer sort of like you got extra points when you did a whole story or and it was just something that appealed to me. I I loved getting a chance to immerse myself in people's lives. It was and really stay. Hang around and go back and when I was in school I did a story about. I think my first photo story. It was about to older women that live together was on bass and I lean and best was probably in her early eighties and I had the head assignment from the school newspaper to go photograph her because she was making quilts and taking them down to Guatemala and so I just did a portrait of her and while I was doing a portrait of her in her bedroom with all these quilts laid out and hanging everywhere. There was this other woman. They're they're kind of hanging around the doorway who had like a speech impediment. And that was I lean and she was younger than on doc best buy. Oh maybe twenty years. So she was. She's probably late sixties early seventies and their relationship was I could tell there was something really special with their relationship and so I went back and I started going back. I would go on the weekends. I would go in the evenings and we never left the house. The whole story takes place in about four rooms and it was just magic. I just I I love them. I still remember them so fondly and they I could walk in and out of their house. Whenever I wanted to I stay for lunch? I could just hang out with them and I just felt something. There was something so special about being allowed into people's lives like that and it was all about because I was a photographer and because I was going to tell their story or and that just was hooked on about that and I thought what a privilege this was and it was gonna be able to take me to the highest levels of in in terms of you know presidents to the two people who were living on the street. I mean you could span the entire sort rainbow of our society and other societies as a photojournalist and that privilege was it was just magical for me and I just completely it was hooked on it and I think also what's interesting is how people's have portfolios like I do a lot of portfolio reviews and when we were in school we were making portfolios. And you might have two or three stories and then all the rest were these single images and you had to have a food food picture on his shirt a news picture at right partrick and more and more I think those portfolios now people just show their our projects. They just saw their stories and the projects they're working on and it's much stronger when you see you can see that kind of work. Yeah I think that particularly the project that you just mentioned go on your working within a limitation of those fall for small rooms and and I think that it helps a photographer to develop a more subtle and nuanced I as opposed to covering a fire big political rally. Because it's it's not every moment is not dramatic but there can be moments that are very telling yes absolutely and if he can be patient and if you can be observant enough you can get a sense of what moments have that kind of potential. It difficult skill to learn. If you're too impatient for the great photograph I think that's absolutely right. It's all about that patience and understanding that just being present with WHO with the people that you're photographing the story that you are interested in telling so that images come to you. It's like they give them to you. And you have to be ready open and receptive and take that gift and then honor it and so. I think that that is key like I think in our world were everybody's in a hurry and you know the fact that I would spend like an entire Komo Saturday just hanging out you know and a Lotta you know and what what did they do. They made the bed and they did their hair and they wash. It's the dishes and may might do some quilt Tang. But you know it was all kind of sperry simple daily life but to me it was like like a gold mine. You know it was a it was still rich from working on that and other personal projects of that sort where you have sort sort of the luxury of time to revisit what what sort of skill sets or awareness to do. Did you gain from that. That helped you when you ahead a much more limited time with the subject. Well the definitely the patient patients but also to start to quickly ascertain and what are the main ideas that need to be communicated about a story so for like the Aunt Besson by lean which I recalled old friends it was all about that relationship. And how they filled each other's gaps. Like our I lane was like a little handicapped with her speech and One of her hands but she could remember everything sharp as she she can remember it. All were best you know. Her memory wasn't the greatest so she had started to tell a story and then Eileen with pop in with the actual facts accent give and take they had. It was just such a beautiful relationship and I think just understanding what the story is as fast as you can like if it's if it's you have limited amount of time is like understanding that this is the story you know and this is what I need to be paying attention to and then gathering those pieces that will make a narrative whether I have day or I have you know a month. I think having that sense except clarity about what is the story. You're trying to tell it's an important sometimes. See that for photographers. I may have some great photographs. But they're lacking a clear understanding of the story when they when you sit down four portfolio review. Is that something you she often. Yes I think because often you know people walk into a situation are sent on a situation and maybe they are are on the ground and they're looking for what the story is. They understand that. Oh this is really visual. You know this is GonNa serve up some wonderful photography fi but then what's that wonderful photography about what are those wonderful images about and and finding that the both right so it's like the story is this S. and here's the wonderful images that are going to help explain that you know. Visually speak to people about what the story is. And it's an interesting sing-language of pornography. I see it as a language that I know how to speak and you know how to speak and photographers as they become more are adept know how to speak visually and I think that is so important and it takes time to understand like sort of what photographs APPs can do and can't do and what the tax should be doing versus what the photograph should do and let each medium shined and do what they they do best like. Sometimes I have looking at people's work and there. There's some photograph and it's a beautiful image but they're piling on so much on that picture picture so this is my climate change and it's showing it's about this and it's about that and actually it's not over the next will be or the capture will be but the picture it's actually more or simplistic in terms of what it can do. And what it's actually say and having people understand that difference I think is really the important like what's the cause photography speak so emotionally. It's all about your emotions especially if you don't have any texts with them and you're just like guide when I look at People's work I don't WanNa really know anything about it. I I want to see what does it say to me. Sometimes they get. There's so married to what their intention was. And what they wanted the work to say that they're resistant in order. Just they're just not in a place to recognize what the workers actually saying. It's so true and unless you're able to I and then I think the conversation was someone is so okay. Here's what we want to say. This is what you're wanting to say. So how are we going to nick. Get onboard so what are the images that are going to help you say that. So then it's like A. It's like a conversation around. Why really wanted to? I want to say this I want to say this and then deciding well. What can photography due to say this or is this a case where you need to write something or is this a on about at that particular thing but at least it sets you on a path for looking for the kind of pictures adding the pictures to your story that you might not have yet? I think there's so much like the geographic. Were working on a story. That's why we have you know the photographer and the photo editor worked so closely together. So there in conversation about what. This story needs visually. And and let's let's we've done our homework and we do our research than perhaps we can find examples that are going to help tell more of the story in at a high visual level. Can you give me an example sample of that either when you were in the role as the photographer or as the editor. So there's a story. I worked on with John. Stan Mar was his first store a second story that he did at at the magazine and it was the story about malaria and and I was it was early on in my career. There is a photo editor. So I I you know. First of all was to sort of. We're GONNA photograph about malaria. You know so it's like a medical medical it's medical and people are sick and feverish in. What are you gonNA show so? The first step is like a lottery search so I became like super malaria expert. Right I I studied stuff. I read things I went to some talks about it and I found that there were like like different causes and effects around malaria. And there's man made where it's urban urban malaria. There's comes from we. We make AAC the perfect place for mosquitoes. There's the kind of malaria that can kill you. There's all these different types of mosquitoes. and which are the ones that are the carriers. What are the solutions from bednets to Artemis? So I became like a expert and so working with John on who found the best places that we felt like In the world that told those very specific stories so we went to Calcutta Okada for urban malaria and we went to Peru for men made which is all about deforestation so each each each location had a recent and so we weren't going to go to Peru and tell everything about malaria. We're gonNA tell this one thing we're GonNa talk about the deforestation and creating habitat for mosquitoes in Calcutta we're gonNA go just for. It's it's a problem of standing water there and flooding so then we tell that story there so in each place you would telling Allingham very particular piece of that story that and you knew and you you know with our research is what made that possible so doing that kind of research. That's really important. What was the first assignment that you yourself? Produce for the national geographics DACA for an audited. It come about well the very first one which is really going back into the dusty archives is when I was intere- Sallai now I turn there so I was college photographer of the year the first female in the history of that contest and the prize as it still list. Today is an internship at the National Geographic magazine. Summer internship so I was primarily you know as a student primarily shooting shooting black and white only just kind of started shooting some color transparency. Film Bob Geico was the director of photography. On the time I stumbled. Oh my way along so that summer learning how to shoot color. Transparency film with the hand held light meter and I mean total dark ages. Then I got an assignment assignment. In Africa in Uganda to go with a family who was returning after eating mean fell so the woman who was Ugandan and she had been out of the country for seven years seven eight years and she was going back now for the first time with her husband. He was Canadian. They had a baby and I went with them them and I ended up being over there for like three months with them and that was my first story with them and I just by the skin of my teeth gotTa publishable story. Sorry I would say so. That was my first one but did I learn a lot so you pull it off by the skinny your teeth but you learned a lot. Were some of the more important lessons learned. Well that I was not the boss of the story in a way you know I felt like like I wanted and I got very emotional and unhappy when I felt like things might have could have happened happened at a certain time. That would have been much more conducive to better photography than when they actually happen and being able to just roll with those punches. I was not not very flexible and I because I felt I felt so intense about you know doing a good job and so oh things happened like we. The day we drove into Campa Cola. We ended up getting their night. And we're supposed to get there during the day and this was a huge moment. She's going to see her family and relatives for the first time in eight years and to me this was key and the fact that we got it was very late when we laughed and we got held up the check at the border and by the time we got there it was dark. And I'm shooting code chrome and I was going to have some flash and I was very good get it flash and I was so upset that we didn't Roland like it. Pipe o'clock in the afternoon when the light was beautiful or something right so so I learned a lot of patience. I learned about being flexible. I learned a lot of things that I kind of new. But the but the it just had been ramped up for me on that first source so much I was that the intensity of shooting my first geographic magazine story kind of maybe a little crazy so I think I think I learned a lot about being self sufficient agent being a problem solver which I really learned that after my internship was over and I went to my first newspaper. Job Into Pika gotta be Kansas with Rich Clarkson. That's when I really learned that's what I think I really became a professional those couple years. There was what turned me into the kind of person I think that was a foundation for me for the rest of my life even today. It's just being that problem solver not bothering people with my problems it to accept the responsibility that now this is my in my job and I'm just GonNa go do it. I'M GONNA figure it out and tell me what the role of the editors were in terms of developing yourself as the kind of human being. That could tell these stories. Not just the better ignition. With a camera I worked with a number of different photo editors while I was shooting and it was that second pair of eyes that objective second pair. Is that who you know they. Didn't you know walk ten miles for the photo right or you know didn't eat for two days or didn't take a bath in didn't climb the mountain. Whatever it is that like made that picture in your mind so so important I got this after the struggle and then you know you have somebody telling you? Well yeah the story about getting. It is good but the picture itself is just just okay right and having somebody having that distance while it's painful you know that the picture that you spent four days tried to get might not be good enough. That is a very important lesson to understand how your pictures are communicating with other people who were not standing. They did not walk. The ten miles did not hear and smell and everything else that the Tigers experiencing. And who do you just have that person. I think it's really important as a photographer to have other people's eyes on your work and have that people can help you. You understand what is communicating. So are they feeling what you're feeling or what you hope the pictures make you feel an NSF editor editor. It's very important to be that person for the photographer you know. I always felt like when when I'm editing people's work one of the great joys of being an editor is having that vicarious experience looking at the photographers' work and feeling appealing. Their joy are feeling their pain or feeling their anger or feeling their boredom. Whatever it is that's going through? I think you really really can feel that especially at the geographic when you look at everybody the whole take. It's not like you're just looking at one hundred photos you'll looking at it at all and being able to have that opportunity opportunity I think. Is You really learn how the photographers working. How they're moving their body what they see when they see it? You're you could be going through. You know ten thousand pictures and you see something and you can see something happening in the background and you think are they going to see it. Oh I hope they do they see and yes they saw what you know and then it's just like beautiful you know and then you can really have a conversation where you can help them Over the past year I've noticed an increased interest the show. It's not just about download numbers but it's that I've been getting comments from everywhere. I received messages from people in Eastern Eastern Europe South America Africa and Southeast Asia. All telling me how they recently found the show and are enjoying going through the archive of interviews. We've produced. That's that's amazing to me. It's great to know that so. Many people think that that episodes that I produced even fourteen years. This ago are still a value though. I feel the show has gotten better over these many years. It's great that so many people still love of that work however one of the reasons why it's gotten better is because you provided me the means to do it. Your support gave me the time and and resources to make this show what it is today without you. I don't think I would be as adept an interviewer as I am today. And that's just because because you gave me so many opportunities to talk to people and you can help me to continue the work by supporting US financially. There are are thousands of listeners who listen to each episode but only a small number approximately three percent support the show financially. You and many many others have made this show possible. If we can increase our regular supporters from just three percent the five percent we will be able to the do so much more so if you believe in the work that we do please become a patriotic supporter today and contribute five dollars or more the month it can and will make a big difference. GO TO PATRIOT DOT COM forward slash Lee candid frame today and join us. Thanks as much as we would love to live in a world where we're all judged for the quality of our work. Unfortunately there are people who have to work alongside with who make judgments based on your sexuality Your Grace Mary things and as you said you were one of the very first woman to were the first woman to win the college soccer for of the year up. Sure they when you we started making your way through the magazine and newspaper world is still largely dominated by by men thankfully that's changed but unfortunately some of that some of the attitudes heaven and curious as to how how did you stay sustain yourself during those sort of difficult difficult moments because I've talked to people and even now they they struggle with some of those issues and it seems it teams that having a place which they can voice that his is is important. It's better now than it was but your time coming up. How did you experience them? I think that because I was often sometimes I was the only woman on the staff on the newspaper for staff in Philadelphia. There were more women it was actually pretty good for those days. In the eighty s there were a few several women. I always always felt like the best pictures are going to win right. That's that was my Sort of if I could what I had in my head was I wasn't really thinking so much about my gender our anybody's gender. I was just thinking if I took a better picture than that guy and I'm I'm in right and I just had to make better for photographs now. Maybe I was naive but I think in general that worked for me. I was just outlast people. I'm going to stay there longer. I'm going to work harder. I'm GonNa Bring More to the table and that works for. May I mean. Obviously that works for me. I had a wonderful career Shooting and then editing and then was the director of Photography so oh I think that I think that works for me but I see I think you know the past five years maybe maybe Ten years at least speyrer ten by ten years. It's been a real sea-change about who is taking the photographs. Who's WHO's who's who's telling the story? Yeah who who has the agency to tell the story who you know and were in a process I think now of re-balancing re-balancing a community that has been out of balance for a long long time. Right not just gender but Ethnicity city and race so were all part now. Part of that rebalancing and whenever you're rebalancing something that's really out to balance. The shift has to be very intentional. And some tate and and you're really got to put some weight on the other side of the scale right some serious weight to even get it even much less anything else so I think that's something that all of us over the past five years have become woken up to and I think in a in a way. It's kind of amazing that we we're so blind to it for so long including myself right. I think it's kind of shocking where I think back that. They didn't think about it. People are in some ways for being in a room that is so homogeneous. There's little reason to think that you don't know no everything I don't know if it's if there's a story is apocryphal or not I think the Chevy came out with a car called the Nova during the the seventy s and they came out with his car and they found that in the Hispanic market. They weren't selling as much as they thought they they would. And then you know someone came came around said well in Spanish Nova means doesn't go so is this like someone in the room where at least he's headed understanding of Spanish. They may realize that you know this might not be the best name you know as as funny as that story is he is. I think it's very analogous that what could happen in can happen in law editorial rose where there is an alternative voice to say. Hey maybe there's a different way of looking at or approaching it that we haven't considered not because we're being purposeful about it. It's just that we don't have any context in which to reconsider it so so I think so as much as as I think. It's great that we have more photographers of greater varieties. That are out there that are producing interesting work. Till's things start changing at the top in terms of the hiring and that things are very slow very slow too slow to change. I'm very slow to I. One of the things at the being at the National Geographic is that you know the largest pool with the the greatest amount of diversity are the straight up photo journalists. That's a really big pool of people and doing the cultural work Doing that sort of classic photojournalistic documentary photography. That's the biggest pool with the most diversity but one of the problems at the geographic is says that's only say maybe thirty five to forty percent of the storytelling cut because there's underwater. There's natural history their science. There's archaeology and there's a and those stories are also key topic areas for the geographic. So you know that is a very narrow pool of people. The people who do that kind of work which is marked technical a camera trapping lighting on location. And this was an area for me that I thought like wow could i. We use some diversity. Anybody that's not white male. Please come over here and and let's learn how to do this so we started a program with the society side. A Grant Program called the Second Assistant Program started about two years ago and we got a some grant money from the society to to add a third person to the team. That would go out on those in those types of stories because most of those photographers work with an assistant and often one that they know pretty well who knows how to do some of the technical work so we thought let's what if we started bringing in people a more diverse group of people to go on assignment with these photographers. Who are doing this kind of work? And they're kind of the assistance. Assist list it right and they would sorta 'cause I think photographers at least for myself. You know I'm not a a book learner. When it came to photography it was A? Do it do it by doing right. That's how you really learn so we started this program and I'd with probably have had maybe thirty people go through now as second assistance assistance and it was open. It was a any photographers that we worked with. We would get them signed buddy. If they would take some day would decide. We'll give them some options. We have a sign up in a form that the candidates fill out and they could have them for a week or two weeks. It'd be up to the photographer what they wanted to do. And that was something that I felt like really happy about and really proud of helping work on. But it's slow it still slow just because they go out on one story story or something with For and learn how to set up a camera trap doesn't mean you can hand them. The story next starts to create that half that half half of people who might go. Wow I love this I wanNA learn more about this. I want to do more of this and and then you can start to work with them. Yeah and I think those those. Those programs are really sort of essential to creating those opportunities because I was reading some years ago about girls roles in the sciences sciences and mathematics and it really spoke to that the reason why there are so few. Were studying those and in college how you can really see the Klein in the interest in those fields from elementary to middle school. The high school to college and that it's it's not that they don't have they're not they're not suitable for those fields or they're not. It's not that they can't be really amazing using in those areas but because they have not been supported throughout those years of education by the time you get to the point that some graduate and experience that pool becomes sounds very very limited and I think that exists in a variety of different fields. Not only not only photography of and so instead of saying because I've heard a lot of editors say yeah well you know I just don't see any work coming in from such and such kind of otographer that they feel like it's just they either believe it's not there or the people are not good enough to be put out there and I think it's really important consideration to recognize that there is is there is within the system itself obstacles that make it more difficult for for certain people to get in the door and that that it's the responsibility of the institution itself to not just wait for the person to walk in but to create opportunities where they can discover them so. I'm glad glasses of the you know. The geographic was doing making some effort in also think in terms of geographic for sure the sort of the explosion of the digital or online publishing those stories. Those assignments are often great places to try new people because because the investments financial investment sort of the stakes er little lower. You know it's there and it you know and then it's gone. It's not sitting on your coffee table for the next one hundred years right you know or it doesn't rise to the level and you can't use it. It's risky is a lot more risk involved and a for a magazine. A prince story is just way more expensive and then a digital story so there's a lot of Photographers that we were able to us. Digitally for a while before. They did their first magazine story. and which is another great path for bringing in new New People for myself. I was like when I was a photo editor and I put down the cameras and started working as a photo editor. I was all about wanting wanting to bring in new people because I felt like the photographers that were my peers. That while I was shooting they didn't really need me. You know what I mean. They already had this doubt. They were already working on National Geographic magazine stories. You know and I thought I felt really excited about the chance to bring in the next help. Bring in the next generation of photographers. So I I felt like that that was kind of my niece. You know I really liked finding new. People brought in a lot of new women talkers and working with them and helping them. Learn how to negotiate the place and and shoot Those long term projects sow now I loved being a photo editor and I'm back to now working more as a photo editor. It's the and also trying to teach people about photo editing because not everybody is going to get to maybe a photographer their whole life as much as they even want to. It's it's you know with. The market has shrunk and the economics comics of journalism are challenged being photo editors real job and it's a fantastic job and it's very very fulfilling job. I find debt when I made that switch between being a photographer and a photo editor I had no regrets. I have not had any regrets about that. I've I found myself as justice fulfilled working with the photographers as an editor. As I did taking the pictures myself would what led you to decide to do. Then well I was. I guess that was around two thousand five. I had been teaching workshops. Two photographers shooting workshops. But part of it is your editing. Their work as it comes in during this week long workshops I was and I really enjoyed that part of the workshop up and it was also working with my husband at the time we had hit. He had some a design studio and was doing photo research and they were doing some books and I was doing Puerto Research in some editing on the books and I just felt I really loved it I loved. I felt also less nervous or or less more confident when I was editing. Other people's were than when I was actually very well. You know like I was such such a nervous photographer. Terms like is a good enough. Am I gonNa get that picture me. No it was like I was always kind of a bit fear. Based based in terms of my motivation whereas as an editor I felt a little more decisive a little more confident in in my choices. I felt like I could really help people. I could see that I was helping people and it felt really good to Help somebody you know with that with that. Pile of photos and get them organizing them in an in a sequence and helping them tell their story and brainstorm with them and you know it's like having any a kid in a talent. Show the photographer near the MOM. Back there on the side like kind of mouthing all the words and everything and then when they succeed you're just like filled up with joy and I I really find that was my path. That was a path that I really enjoyed it and I want to share that. You know with people like you can you can be in our. There's so many ways to be in the photo community. That's one thing that so so plastic so our community. There's so many paths you can take and I think being an editor is a very worthy in fulfilling path what was were challenging aspects of being being. Well we touched on it. A little bit will is the idea of when the photographer almost every single story. There's some photographs that photographer just really gets married to Um and they just can't see the force for the trees right and I so I started doing it. I started doing something because then it's like it's me against them like I like this one. You like that one. And that is a stalemate. There's it's like it's never. Nobody's going to kind of be able to budge sometimes as as much as you try to talk them out of it or they try to talk you into it so I found I. I like to do something where I bring a. I call it like the readership survey so I would grab somebody else on the department department. Somebody who's a visionary trusted in who had great tastes in photography and bring them and I would tell them to pictures. I would wouldn't tell very much about it at all and just say what are you like what you like and we gather up a bunch of these and have always sir broke the logjam now. I didn't always win. Those you know and the forever didn't always win and it was kind of like okay. Let's see how this picture is talking to somebody else who's less close to than we are. Because now I'm like really close switched to the story. I've been spending months on it so I think that was a challenge until I realized I just need to bring in more voices. We need to get more readers in the what's happening here. How is this picture communicating? The other one was a challenge is always I think. Probably I believe this will never go. Away is getting people who are the text editors the text the writers and the text people understand. There is such a thing as a visual narrative that it pictures are telling a story and it's not necessarily an illustration of everything you write about and that to me is like key and I have fought that battle my entire life every publication. I've ever been at. I don't expect affected to go away but I think that that's because they don't speak that language so they can kind of see how that works and trying to help them see that that were no. We're not going to go run around after you and take all the pictures of all the people you talk to what we do. That's not the pictures that are going to really move people eh care about this topic so I think that's. That's a challenge. You had a photographer. Who Sort of vetted disagree and you get a first story? What kind of advice would you give them? Because I think there's probably a certain approach that a national geographic the national geographic photographer to take in order to serve the needs of the magazine as opposed to say working at a at a daily newspaper is where we're some of the things that you suggested the people as they went out to do their first for the publication for me. It's really important that they be themselves that they don't okay. I think they understand what it means to be a national geographic photographer and then try to fit themselves into that because almost never works the reason somebody is being brought brought in and hired to do it is because of who they are and how they see and that I never want them to like let go. Oh off like your hair because we love your work that you have done prior to being here so don't all of a sudden become somebody else trying to be what you think we are and what we want you stay with your your vision. We want your vision. We love your photography. We want you to just apply it to to this topic and that it was always like that was always one thing I always tell them and the other thing I would I would always say they like to say to people. Is that photo. Journalism is two things it's photography and journalism now. Journalism is like you know that part of your brain that's GonNa get the captions and do the research and understand sort of the story on a sort of verbal level the photo. Oh part is the artist this is you have got to tap into your inner artist. Because I want to see is pitchers at that intersection of art and journalism. The Art of the photograph is just as important in terms of the storytelling as the journalism. Part so if a photo auto graft is all journalism then it's kind of some kind of didactic explanatory how to fry chicken or how I to build a boat you know versus the art of building the boat the art. Can you find the art as opposed to. Don't tell me every step. I don't want like a how to make a boat. I want to see what building a boat means on a very aesthetic and artistic. It's sort of art artful way as well as information. So it's finding that intersection Tomase is key. So those what it was be yourself and then be at the intersection sexually. Martin journalism those two things that were important to me so when you were looking in. Somebody's work you're looking at their their abilities. In both those it was those areas. They didn't necessarily have to be completely proficient but they had to have some so's show some indication that they were capable of of straddling. Both of those. Yes and being able to handle like a lot of moving parts being good problem solver because all these stories you know best slate plans boy and then you get out there rains for two weeks or something like that. What are you GonNa do just spent a lot of money getting you there right so it's kind of being? That problem. Saw Her being able to handle a lot of moving parts because these stories are thick. We need you to succeed and we try to give the photographer every type of support we can cause their success is our success. That's always for sure surfer certain told told me about your visual thinking collective. Yes I don't know if I have my elevator speech about down yet so Campbell. The Lakers Barcus. When I was deciding to leave the geographic this this past summer I was thinking about? What am I gonNa Miss? You know one of the things that I knew I was going to miss. Is the community like being every day in a community of people who are dedicated to visual storytelling. And I thought wow. There's so many things out there for for photographers. There's all these agencies and there's a photo festivals and there's part polio reviews and there's mentorships and there's all of these things for photographers offers that our community has created rightly so fairly so but there's not so much for somebody like me who wants to stay in the community are be in a community unless I'm at a publication or something so I decided I'm just going to have to make something I'm GonNa make one so the visual thinking collective was an idea I had to make a community of women photo editors and creative directors and stories visual a project managers. So that we could help one another strengthen numbers. I felt that there was a lot of women I know who who are out there doing it on their own and some quite successfully doing it on their own but I thought well what if we ban together maybe we can and be even more successful and offer each other support and also maybe pitcher have a platform from which to pitch ourselves and our talents. So that's how it started and we got it it standing up. I don't know if it's walking are talking quite yet. But it is standing a few a few weeks ago and now figuring out the next steps we all have a ideas and dreams of working on maybe some projects together. They probably growing the group we have six women and including myself but probably grow at some. I think I'm personally interested in editing. Being in teaching some of the others are have different sort of skill little slightly different skill sets. And what they're interested in so just figuring out how all that works is kind kind of where we are right. Now look forward to seeing what you guys come up with the next coming years few killing years. I am to my last question Russian that I ask each gas. I asked them to recommend another photographer for listeners. To discover and explore and it can be anyone someone you've long admired or someone you've recently only discovered that one photographer being why well I thought about this a lot because I know I've listened to your podcasts. I know you do this struggling because I have too many people but I'm going to say Guinea are Bugai of A. She's a young photographer who I met about five years ago at a Portfolio Review New York and she was not working at the geographic and I was at while I was Sir so maybe six years ago I was still a picture editor and she came to my table and had this amazing to she had two stories. She's from Siberia she's from Cuccia and she had a story about a small town in Siberia called tipsy that she she grew up in And then after she left the coots and then also story about mammoth tusks counters. Now my new the mammoth tusk counters. Were were perfect National Geographic Story and it was shot very sort of straight up photo-journalistic style and then the Pixie work was like magic realism awesome. It was gorgeous it was just I loved it so much so I brought the work back and I said I'm Dr Editor at the time and sad. Had you know we should do this. Mammoth Tusk story but we should send her back because I want the Pixie photographer to go do the mammoths and because that was that that intersection section that we're talking about right. If she could bring the art to it so she did. She went back to the beautiful job. And she's been working at the National Geographic ever. Since and she's she's one of my favorite people and an amazing photographer artist. You should talk to her. Look for looking at work. That's great thank you you for that and thank you for your time. I'm glad that you're feeling better. And we were able to talk without coughing. Exactly well I wanNA thank you so much for this opportunity to be part of a of almost five hundred your closing in on five hundred. I don't know we just turned five hundred last week. Just okay so I'm in the five past the five hundred mark to be part of all those interviews interviews. That you have done is an amazing a huge honor for me and I really appreciate. It sounds so much thanks to Sarah for sharing time story with us. Find out more about her and her work by visiting Sarah. LEAN DOT COM and I'll be in Washington. DC for the focus on the story photo festival in the fall and a memento graphic workshop in El Paso Texas in in August. And I'll also have my week long workshop in Tokyo in December you'll find details on all of these on our websites and for for the workshop in El Paso and in DC. We are now accepting students some chicken out and sign up soon. And if you're a devoted listener and subscribe describes the show right as a review on whatever service you listen to podcast. Those reviews have led people to take a chance on our show and allowed us to grow. Thanks is the Ben. PK from the UK for his five Star Review. Allow my recent book making photographs developing a personal visual workflow. I just released my latest e Book Book Nine Pictures Nine stories volume two the first one get a wonderful response and I'm back with a follow up where discussed the stories behind nine images they created last year. It's only eight dollars near purchase is another way you can support the show purchase that and any of my previously published e books Visiting the website also subscribe to our Youtube Channel and our mailing list on the Youtube Channel. I offer critiques on images submitted by listeners. Like you you while the mailing list keeps you updated with all. TC events including special events workshops and more sign up today and remember you can support the show by contributing to our patriae effort or donating through paypal. Thanks to ned bag no andy. Alexander Zachary Brannigan had he connelly Antonio Saudia James Trimble Sasa Gregori and DJ Connor for their recent contributions. I'm so encouraged by your support and if you found that you can find every episode of the show on whatever or service. You're using download the candidate frame APP which is available for both Appalachia less an android. And because of your generosity it's free to download and use no additional purchases are required. The cannon frames audio engineer is Martin Taylor who you can find the other Martin Taylor Dot Com show. Senior producer is Cynthia. Parker and I'm using is from Kevin mccloud who's royalty the free music can be found at incompetent dot com and this is your body and X.. And this is the candidate for him Um Hum.

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Material 225: Made By Google

Material

1:37:50 hr | 1 year ago

Material 225: Made By Google

"The morning afternoon or evening please delete as appropriate otheir welcome to this the epic and birds and the birds the burbs birds of the burps. Andy I need it before we time like ever after after being Internet friends and skype pals for so long that was cool we're both at the made by Google event which they showed off the got into everything that we talked to or we experienced well we should probably should we tease the fact that we finally met each other I know we're going to just like a block away from both the apple store in Soho In Soho and the Google headquarters Google headquarters the feeling the vibe of being in the city even though I am of course back home in my very very audio secure audio quiet studio work is just too much for me I'm not not a city person I belong out here in the burbs where it's quiet and I'm stranded there's a lot of studio availability and voice talent I have great expense like hired this studio to mix in like some ambience noise so that you get which I also have great experience with finding really break free Wifi I'm like do I have the guts to actually do a Google podcasts from an apple store I feel like in a very ambient location right now this is this is the week of the Google launch event he made by Google event in New York City so I have given no actually I am at the I'm at Google headquarters the They I have had a social thing going on this afternoon with Google Learning Center where they will give you like this big big like fold out brochure of all these classes that they're giving you for free like kind of reminiscent of get no I feel as though this is the flag that this is the emblem I want on my banner that yes this is the sort of decision that Andy was willing to make doing a Google podcast permanent public apple store based on the fact that it's just a block away from where he's having lunch and also that the Wifi is pretty good talk about it but we should tease it this is I if you're dropping on us for the first time this is a good one to drop in on because we did get the hang out together for the first get joyous show however I flow you told me that there was a a unit of non joy also as you might be able to find someplace nearby so it's so I'm actually kind of pleased by this I I when I saw on the map that I was actually really close to the apple store saying that there were numerous earthquakes at my house before I came home so I left and went to the east coast all these earthquakes hit so that was great and then I came home I don't at for everything good and bad about me I think that's pretty emblematic I'm just home back in California because I I just did not want to stay in yesterday and the first message that I have for my husband when I land after a six hour flight from New York is I think our nest got hacked I knew that we have plans to record today so I was trying to for your we're best record and then when I found out when I got here and I found out that where I was meeting a friend for lunch at one is leased because if it did I would have been fined for a fake alarm which costs money it increases one hundred dollars every time you have a false alarm and so he could have applauded but he couldn't unplug eventually probably shouldn't say this out loud but I am right now I'm not paying for professional monitoring because we're in the middle of moving and so thankfully there was no fear of like it calling the puck shaped device that has all the numbers in that connects you to If you pay for monitoring it connects you to Google Google related in your life that I think before we get to the joy we need to get to the sorrow that that we buy our joy with well I just had a preface a year and if you go to grow dot Google which is also like there's sort of hub for a google education stuff like here's how to use our products and here's how to use our services arm kept going off and my husband kept he went over there and he kept like punching in you know are little codes and make sure that the alarm would go off thankfully I'm not paying Oh and he proceeded to explain that while he was home yesterday so he's waiting for the contractors to come because we were having some worked on and I- expand my husband's name under the Family Group and I noticed that there's an email address there that I have never seen before in my life and so like not talk about it until everybody talks about it in the same day for marketing reasons so we can all about our voluminous to two days of experience with Pixel phones and the new pixelbook both of us went team back with birdies hardware so we can and unlike certain other tech juggernauts they don't make tractors here so I had to wait a little bit for deal with this and so eventually after dinner we decided okay let's tackle this so I called nest govern over again so I think whoever the person was stopped accessing it so this was a story that I was met with as soon as my plane landed to kind of like come home to all this 'cause I I'm the one who's in charge of this stuff I'm the one who sets it up and so when something goes wrong I feel personally responsible for it because I'm just kind of fretting about this I'm stressing I'm kind of upset I feel really violated you know and so I get home they're still what you can get the apple stores like the big ones where they have regularly stop it looks really really cool and apparently they're doing these at a lot of different locations throughout the rest thanks oh I'm sorry to ask customer support we were those people but I'm sure you've dealt with worst people so you know forgive us but we were it was a little I was a little flustered talking when you're when you're kind of zooming into a nest camera and you're trying to like talk to a family member some random voice started talking to him okay so then I'm on Bart on my way home from the airport from San Francisco Airport I live all the way up North Griffin is under his name and it's linked to his credit card kind of thing I just have full access so I went in to see what was going on so I go into the family group like stopped doing whatever it was doing because even if he unplugged it it it has a six hour battery life so it would have been doing the same thing customer service and as we were on hold with them I logged into the next account through my email address so my husband was locked out of his there's this name on there that like we've never seen before so they're like oh my gosh okay that's weird so they looked up my husband's account nest account on his end and we have a family group so I have access to everything just as much as he does is just the nest aware and like I don't have time to deal with this I have contractors coming over and my necessary talking to me and as soon as he unplugged it the nest guard which is the little hockey through the camera that's in the living room and he was like what is going on so my husband just unplugged it he was just like y name under his email and it turns out like everything that was nest had been deactivated from his account so it showed that he was not a activeness subscriber New York City I thought you know what that we can make this avert here so they've got the ability to say that they have until the end of the year the they've set up sort of a pop up as soon as the first customer rep gets on I'm going to relate his whole story everyone right now so enjoy as soon as the first customer rep gets on I we're on speakerphone by the way else and this was like at seven in the morning somebody like you know when the lights come on the nest camera and then you start to hear that support official like waiting for him on holds we got an email finally to my husband's email account to reset his nest password so they kicked off wherever that email was and put my husband's email back on and so immediately I had my husband migrate over to the Google Account and said while and I didn't notice it because I didn't think I didn't think to go into the family group and kind of check and see that the credentials were all you know the Pixel phone and I think the guber messed home this is this is a good one we will talk about this in-depth later but so as you can guess from maybe the tone in my voice we're do that to emergency nine one one services and it's kind of like the hub of the security system that one started going off like the I wasn't home for three days earthquakes hit my house so my husband had to deal with like broken vases and stuff and then ago put us on pause comeback please but put us on pause and go do that immediately because I was not compromised my account was everything especially when you're dealing with your home security especially when you're doing a diy home security and you know I'm kicking myself in the butt for not kicking my husband's are you are migrating or Google account it really is I think more secure I mean you have to log in with your phone or or ocober is actually cybersecurity awareness month Jay perfectly timed and you know and you know if you are out there listening to us right now and you have not migrated your nest account your works with nest account over to Google I need line with what we were used to having but I do think there's a moral to this story and I think the morals a setup two factor authentication with absolute so far so we did all of this and so it again I still don't know what happened all I know is some random person had access to my account showed he was de active like all the things that have been removed it didn't show any hardware under his name it didn't show in aware account so they put us on hold we get to a second customers were up and they took down the serial number for the camera he tossed us to a third customer service rep I feel embarrassed and I feel violated is Kinda how I'm feeling right now and ultimately in the moral of the story is you know it's funny perfectly safe I was still able to access everything the only thing I couldn't do was kickoff this other email us because my husband is the owner we're totally that couple bickering while I support you need to tell them this no hold on your dot telling you of the nest account because he's the one who pays for the aware so if especially you are the person who is the payer of the aware account like go make sure before I come home I find out that like our nest accounts been compromised so it's I'm feeling just all sorts of guilt and I want to fix it and so we mentioned that we tried to get the email removed and when she realized that like this email was somebody weeden no they sent us to a senior support official so in the midst of the senior yourself an expert in see even as experts sometimes we got really busy and this happens so it was a day now I wasn't really thinking about it and I feel I feel really guilty about it for not being on top of it because I'm I'm usually the person who is purity system setup at home I'm thinking about how to write about this because I think that even though we constantly say it it's a really calling me incessantly because you can do that now doctor's office so do that for yourself with all the stuff in your house do that for yourself if you have a do it yourself the a lot of my stuff was knocked over by the way I opened the medicine cabinets yesterday and which my husband doesn't go in there because I'm the food and so refreshed on the account page they had done all the stuff in the back end because they put us on hold a lot so I assumed like they were just vigorously doing things back there person with all the crap like deodorizer knocked over leg bottles of things everything was just like strewn around it look like I checked right they were relentlessly calling me saying you're due for your annual skin-care checkup which I really appreciated it because I was like all right I will come in because they were like we do have to take the initiative and set it up for yourself and so I it's I'm learning a lot of lessons as a person who covers this by the way there's a four points there's a four point six and a three point two and the epicenters were both within ten miles of my home ah to get moving on this like I should have pressed him but you know we've been in the midst of all this change so it was kind of it got put on the backburner he had like ransacked my home it was oh my God i just found it funny because I had come home from this like Google event where we and we'll talk about a text message number text message I I just feel I feel really embarrassed Rando is talking my husband through the nest camera like and he's already he's not doing well after having experience to do is put a Google calendar reminder or something to just kind of remind you to check on your stuff like I don't know you can do something you could do a reoccurring Google calendar her event reminder every three months for instance go in and say every three months you just it's like today I went to the dermatologist to get Porton thing that I need to remind people about because if you're gonna go your own direction and try and save some money by not paying company to handle this all four you like a three thirty in the morning the damn smoke detector is going to start going every like three minutes to get you in some times it falls through the cracks because I understand I mean we're busy people we're busy humans I get it but I think this is I think what everybody a even though I preach about this relentlessly as a job as a tech journalist as a person who tries to empower people information oh I ignore it and then I checked the Wifi if it's green light it means that it's on but we have our scheduled and it was not during the scheduled time and I as I do and minding my own business and I saw the light turn on the nest camera and when the green light goes on if it's a blue light I know something's wrong with the wife is third grade he's he's kind of on edge right now and everything that such good advice and you're kind of reminding me it just anyway I'm saying through lots of different ways to do it I'm I'm glad that everything worked out OK from the earth so you know and I just want to thank publicly support for like the minute you mentioned I think I was hacked the neighbors that were like oh how do I faintly here like peeping of Andy's like smoke alarm oh well I could go back to sleep no now India like rattling and like all these rally should have gone with my gut instinct to check the account but I didn't so again it let this be a lesson to all of you like just those things with my own list I have a reminder every six months to do things like check the filters check the batteries and smoke alarms only oh okay on the person's but who does not have to fine abled who has not migrated their account when the company has sold you to do that I think it's just a combination of I did not appreciate the fact that I had to be up early the next morning and the only and because I live in this really beautiful like old old building with highs it's like the red lights go off it's like it's like d day they're like oh my God escalated escalated so it is true there I I I know that I know that that's what they're trying for and that's what they're going for I I appreciate that slut feelings I had to get out the step ladder not just like the little oh here here it is in the kitchen prayer I mean the one of those like Swiss army knife style step ladders that can become we'll say in that case it's not so much because you don't check the batteries in this the backup batteries in the smoke alarm that will compromise the your safety inside the house it's more like if you don't in climbing noises and mostly it was like I don't WanNa fall not because I don't want to break not because I don't want like the neighbors to like have to if you were going to be the person that brings stuff into your home you have to do the you have to be dutiful about doing maintenance and managing it and getting at this woman to the announcements where one of the announcements was that you could use you could use these nest minis as part of like your security and then I come home and like yes the fact that the fact that you were able to gloss over the fact that there was an earthquake at your house while you're gone that shows it's like my dermatologist making sure I go in to get my most checked I mean Kelsey feedback but that can be a problem because that's how they get you but that's like a holdouts huge wall stepladder and it's not Wyatt is the unfold this thing and it's three thirty in the morning and I have neighbor of this particular week so if any video ever surface of like you freaking out at a at a dairy queen because it gave you the rainbow sprinkles instead of the chocolate sprinkles on my wall 'cause all my pipe Scott got brand new plumbing and the house it was just lake flows flow is just trying to breathe through it all right now things and it was very poorly timed after like coming from this Google event coming home to like a house with all the stuff that was knocked over and there's also a giant hole this year would have been completely understandable for that reaction we'll stay will say update and then going I yeah and the Nestle I well I just want to say about the cameras that I had an inkling something was going on because last week I was laying on the couch just watching TV the situation commences commercial this episode material is brought to you by squarespace make your next move would squarespace squarespace let's you easily the answer I let my husband I let my husband do the whole customer support thing but that's why we were bickering and because I kept being like this thing you know la I'm like I'm sorry I'm so angry anyway again between the between the mysterious voices from the Internet and the the serial number is so I'm really sorry to support that I am that wife but you know what that's now you now you all have a glimpse inside with my marriage is like two three five search results so either we are dramatically consistent or they just not a metric that updated off 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If you need any help they'll let you quickly and easily grabbing unique to my name and all those award-winning templates are beautifully designed for us to get to finally see you in person and we hugged immediately I saw you we had a big bear hug and you and I were both dot com slash material when you decide to sign up use offer code material to get ten percent off your first purchase a website or domain and to show your support for material oh how they get you to like the Goddamn thing from the wall because it's three thirty in the that's how they get you to remove the mould which has the things okay that's not right we were not lying in this case this is what we thought well it's good that attentive and then interested in like big once again that's squarespace dot com slash material and the code material to get ten percent off your first purchase we think squarespace for their support of the show and very special episode two to five of the material podcast I am India NOCCO Florence I on and Andy you all of relay FM squarespace meager next move make your next website maybe about star trek okay so it was pretty darn nice and you can do that through squarespace it's super easy squarespace plan started just twelve dollars a month but you can start a trial with no credit card required by going to score space show off your great ideas how much do your friends love Star Trek if you love Star Trek so much together you guys should start a blog a website for next idea with any domain award ring templates and more maybe WanNa create online store maybe you WanNa create online per folio or maybe you want to create a blog in our lake so andy right now like I'm on Skype I'm at home so I'm totally like sweat stains I'm sure Goldline logo saying that it would be maybe there's someone inside there that I could talk that I can talk to or message that would say oh yeah we have like interconference for him for that we'd be happy to let us that part of it is that I don't Wanna I don't WanNa try I did not want to try to use the do you know who I am because I really don't WanNa find freaking out in a supermarket checkout aisle and then I am I have I have to tell myself that maybe they're having just a you're just not seeing them at their best on this particular asked if I should give anybody else advice if you need something to get back to save the world but don't lie don't lie just and it works for us we make it work he will take steps out of the room and he's like can't do this anymore if you're gonNA keep square spaces and all in one platform that lets you do just that there's nothing to install no patches story about no upgrades needed you know have to worry about any of that stuff because squarespace has got a cover the fun part of update last week we were the number two and the number three and then number five search result for podcast about the GimMe Gimme we are still the you are at the the trauma of like getting moved from old hoster new it's their times when I see look videos of This is what happened no you're not telling right thing that was in the background and at one point I they asked for like the cereal and I grabbed the phone getting in touch with you that way like all compare and contrast that to like what I was thinking when I got off the subway and onslow standing right in front of like Google headquarters for the Ariza been brushed for three days that was not me when I saw Andy I had I had red lipstick gone I had all my makeup on I did like I did my shadows Ray I was wearing my hoops I told when I'm in serious business I have my hoops on my respectable Geek 'cause play which is which involves like a a tie a dress shirt that has a collared that can be comfortably button a sweater vest a jacket over the tie and the shirt best this was this was our I we are serious journalistic technology professionals we will we thought that we demand to be treated live on scene sort of stuff and so it's that's why it's difficult for me to like I need to get a little bit of hands on with the device while I'm in we've respectable professionals that was more refreshing than simply seeing you in three dimensions I would say well and we also hung out for a little big I've I've been doing these things for like half my life and when I started going to media events it was it was entirely for the ink-stained wretches like myself cut and press press briefings are no longer just press it's also like youtubers and so you have people that are like making content on the fly there in haven't even like brush my hair I'm probably wearing the same t-shirt by slept in the night before and and to see us like aren't we grownups now whoa I'm there because I want to find the engineers and if I recognize that Oh wow that sexual that's actually Sabrina. LS over there and I'm sure are and it's it's you know you don't listen I'm not on a I'm not rushed here so I could wait and I you know we went out we were just talking and chatting and it was great their content from so they have they have just an important role serving as any any of us do it's interesting though that that for newspapers and magazines and so now I want safe I'm not gonNA come anywhere near saying that I resent that there's so many any to be able to just kind of hang out in person and just so you all know Andy and I have similar reporter in person that we do over skype so it's they're what they do during their time in the demo area and with executive sort of just roaming the floor mostly hoping that no one recognizes them is kind of the Usual Wednesdays like my Wednesday is just I'm a stay at home day it's an office day you more often than not flow is looking at live video of me unshaven get asked really substantive questions but I'm sure I can get one or two interesting questions at her there are a lot of people that are not even necessarily like Marcus Brownlee who are who is it's real it's real it's all real like cats it is now in forever interesting that you that you bring up I was just taking frequent breaks it is really overwhelming to try and like get pictures and be role of product and be able to play with everything while everybody else is doing it sounds like a bill but if they're doing a lifestyle channel that's appropriate for what they're doing and so it really important for them to get that footage to get that I mean there is a bunch of other stuff the mess many these so we'll both be talking about that actually depends on amazing Google Pixel I've got I've got my head Pixel Xl but before we did you be sure to smash that Lake Button and subscribe so you can ring the bell and dude there's here it's just a it's a recognition that youtube being streaming podcasting video streaming here and this where a lot of people get their information the forty eight hours of experience with them but so when like an apple event it's more difficult because if I don't know I'm getting really hard where it means that for the next ten days like a tech reviewer tech journalist commentator people who are doing more like lifestyle channels where it really has to be right we walk through a checklist in my head and I have to wait I've went on a couple of people who are trying to get at minimum seven minutes of footage these are different but it is fun I'm glad to see that there's so much access to so many people I remember when it was a really big deal when like a couple of people who were instead of producing video using it as a prop and this is why I remind myself that again they're doing a job like you are their job their audience values elise if I'm going to tell people here's here's how the scrolling felt and here's how the face on walk fast that I had to get my hands on I have to basically they just do it independently and when I first saw like bloggers being invited credential to these events that was such a great thing for everybody because the work as much as hopefully your audience does yours like why is every single piece of hardware being held in front of by somebody who's who's more voices the better the more diversity better and especially at a time like in the early two thousands when even even more might be now you're on your basic white guy was the the this we were both lucky in that we were both getting proven this hardware renew ver ver wapner Barbara that day so that's why the the phone that was running for the Chicago sun-times and I was the person who was saying don't just talk don't say that this person's just a blogger they are they do judiciously uncover companies do it particularly apple because they they they only invite enough people that they've got space for they make sure there's room for people some who's running by technology there were fewer Brown people there were fewer women doing it right that some could simply I've got my space women press were so by the way there is a press only area where we went and that's where the execs were versus there was a separate indigo camera because it makes things a little bit more difficult and also the scrum of people gets a little bit harder to walk walk around there are executives walking around there necessarily like behind the big placards saying hi I'm in charge of photography for the Google Pixel but your vision is for this product publicly and it's that information informs your knowledge of the products that were announced book clustered around an executive basically the executive would be talking about like the vision like what the message was and these are really I mean these are important things to know as which I have an example of that when we talk about the pixelbook go but we're not there yet but I do want to put a pin in it just to uh-huh for this event Google was using their our simply tell the story behind what they were thinking and what their goals were when they were developing all of this was always prepared but it felt more like they understood that we'll look we by the time like you sat down you are we already sent you something in your inbox that had place for like any affiliates I don't know what to call them like partners like working not working for us yes floor and I'm I'm sure that the executives got to go through that as well but it was nice to just have a whole room of just press because then when you would see like a group of that you brought up because a lot of people read later on twitter we're kind of confused by the way it went and I I really thought it was refreshing it wasn't you're used to us because this is how you you get into the MA inside the mind of the company like how they're marketing these products like what in one room together for as long as I want them but it's interesting how things have been different I will also say the way the Google handles the room is is better than I think most I have to say I usually am when I'm sitting next to a person that I'm like want to talk to I'm usually commenter and really regimented and predictable like you're here we are here they are they're going to march through a set of bullet points number one two three four five six and now here's or not necessarily snarky but if you don't WanNa hear my commentary on said thing because I understand people are focusing these things ears you can get that anywhere it's very difficult however to convey what our feelings were why we are doing things the way we are doing things unless there's a human being that's a good way to put it looks the fruit which the carrier reps there there were like you know like whatever those people were at another I was just like I was kind of giggling because I was like you know what thank God Andy brought his lens it was even worse back then so that's I I don't I don't I don't bellyaching about oh I just be knee and all the products and all the executives the things I don't want to publish that are just box up on and several times I'm looking up saying I've ever taken a note about what goes oh are we talking about Pixel Buds now because I am too that's the way I focus is they try to recall like what I thought about a thing in the moment and that's how I kind of inform that's thank you from a stage you know in a very very analog fashion so even though there were times where I've had two windows on my chromebook as as I was watching into the stage and it's too dark anyway but yeah so that's why that's why I get the I didn't get a chance to meet any legal I didn't get a chance to now let's let's be honest a few years ago the Tigers go I bought my first pro little camera because I felt like I was finally the level where we actually appreciated and a couple years after that I bought for again another and so to talk about Iowa's about what was and here so and so to talk about the new pro line of whatever plus plus plus whereas it seemed as though the audience and on the left hand side was live tweets which is also my version of notes to myself but I figured okay these are also notes I can share with people as they go and on the right it's the same person now and there wasn't a now here so and so to talk about and also looking up saying wait a minute in the first three minutes they were showing pictures literally everything if I don't get to like meet her I really WanNa walk away with a really good picture of Annie Liebowitz which by like every and so there are people I didn't want to bother you anti because they saw that you were you were typing but I you know what I wanted to make comments because you know indeed the whole point of her talk was that you don't have to be a photographer to take pictures take interesting pictures of people to take to find interesting subjects like at some point I had to do the thing I didn't want to do which is like okay I've been trying to like shoot a keyhole and get a good shot of her but people keep leading into the thanks that's the way I'm I'm just like I'm Kinda like that at the movies to which totally annoys people also don't don't go with me to the movies if you don't want me to like make a snarky con they're the big reveal and we we want to introduce to you with this special video now darkness all the specs on here's what the cameras are here's the Dayton scholarship here's like with our speed benchmarks are we don't we all this digital sort of stuff we're here are the numbers are the just simply say I'm going to compose thoughtfully I'm going to try to sweep if I'm not squeezing the trigger during this fifteen seconds I've moist times I should do that smiling and she's looking into the into my lens like this is that you were shooting a lot so I was hoping you would Oh my God I'm such an idiot spring this money on a lens but a really good like a professional zoom lens with like a low low low low aperture and it's really good at low light when the reason for it was all the number of times I've been at these events trying to take pictures of like people on stage like okay they're the FOO fighters up there on stage photographic history's most profound contributors and artists saying how how was to let go of the idea of Outta shot nothing but yes I walk home with a shot of any leaderboards and finding out that the forty or fifty shots for and there was at least one which she's what they were hoping to achieve and what their what their world view is and how the Alex itself in these devices and of course this is always never people talking off the cuff that's that was that was interesting so they were shoes onstage as the last thing during the event to I guess they gave her a house two thousand one theme but no one was like how the Pixel Buds on top of the Pixel Book on top of the top of the the the the new phone good stuff you know what you're doing you're like a spark level let's totally marklevinshow professor people and people were crowding people Komo get into the chance to take really good pictures of Youtube or the foo fighters or Tony Bennett but because I've got this cheap camera the badlands I ca I can't reach how I inform my opinion about something and they don't want to create your own I'm I'm I'm in my time aggressor I'm just all business also like accepted trust and of course the photos were amazing incredible out of course it was Anne Gorse exactly it's like like seriously advanced versions of the software more than they were sending her revise revise like jeering samples it does the great thing about sixty four gigabytes memory cards it's like if if this were like nine hundred seventy eight frame was gonNA cost me sixty cents new but going to take complete control over this of a camera that has dials and settings for everything and lights and whatever for everything and simply trust that if I tap this one button it's going even get shot that I want and then talking about the intimacy that allowed that she's she her subjects are just standing she's just any from subjects with a phone which is something that people in I'm in which I can stand up even though yes in the middle of the audience it's dark and so it's not a big deal blocking the hell out of people behind me and they're going to sit down right away whether I feel how long has she had what could be termed a fix four but she's doing a portrait portrait series and there's a there's a on the Google blog there's a link to this year long a fixed shortened vice presidents happen to be women as opposed to when you have other companies that I'm not going to name where they don't want they don't want you could see this this is why the only thing that kind of undercut the message is that you could say hey any we'd like you to do like an hour long photo your photo portraiture they will make sure that there are a lot of women executives that were front and center throughout going through my notes Ivy Ross the vice president of hardware design Sabrina Ellison love hit well. That's totally Martha Stewart Picture Martha Stewart Martha Stewart's here is you can introduce us snap happy over Annie Liebowitz and with the director of product is up there talking about the Pixel for which is another important thing I it also helps if like most if so many of your Sir employees below a certain like executive suite level and they just don't have anybody who has a white dude English positions whatever project we have here half an orange and a paper bag that we'd like you to take the pictures with she would still come back with amazing she's Anne Frank Label is a lot of people voting myself are paying attention to to say how how eager you to make sure that you were showing the full strengthen diversity of your express. VPN recently over one hundred million people have had their personal information stolen in another major data breach boys as prescient shows it did and such a rape frozen heart presentation 'cause she's talking about again being one of one of the most his one of more frequent and more severe well no it's not just capital one Equifax facebook Ebay Uber Police Station and Yahoo they all have leaked I'm so unclear whether they gave her like Super Super Super Pre Release Pixel for hardware or whether it was here's a pixel three and by the way we're we've freak were were pushing out yeah I was twenty three it was great she let's jump into that and then we'll talk it's again not to say the goal does not have found problems with how they treat women in their company but it's it is something that passwords credit cards and bank numbers belonging to billions of users and this is another reason that I use express VPN because you can't control how big corporations mishandle your data but you can't take steps to protect yourself at least where you can express UPN is an APP for actually aren't any oh I'm sorry we do have one vice president in in in a practice element who did go to public security numbers contact details credit scores and more all taken from capital one customers there's a possibility that you could have been affected by this and these kinds of attacks computer and phone then encrypt and secures your data I never use it unprotected network without express VPN it connects with just one click it's lightning fast allege l. you into a state school anyway so we know what age I was paid off all of my student loans a sleepless such an inspiration for because okay okay that's about we'll talk about the stuff that we don't actually have in our possession right now the stuff that they will be this this episode of material is brought to you by I'm really is really hard right now that's the gym probably sweeping that a little bit but the number one VPN provider by tech radar seen it the verge and others go right now to express VPN dot com slash material to arm yourself with an extra three because it really seems as though they created the feature list based on every every complaint that everybody had quite some time which was a little bit disappointing because the most exciting thing that I think for me that they announced that was not the new pixel phone where the Pixel buds it costs less than seven bucks a month seriously express UPN has saved me all over especially when traveling because I have no idea months of express VPN for free you can support the show and protect yourself by going to express VPN DOT com slash material for three months free with a one year pat inch team in that in such a public way versus again what we like to show you we'd like to show you a diverse people from our executive team but rich before he transferred is diverse is anything I laughed at that just because it's like my life story as you went to public what it is that I am connecting to when I'm connecting to it and at least you know what express vpn has got my back on that Account Express VPN is rated as oh here's a way of wearing headphones without having a wire connected it was here is a way to have the Google assistant available to you wherever when you yeah I mean they were they worked a lot on them they were showing all the video of how iterative on the design like all the color schemes that they tried to come up with I mean pige our thanks to express for their support of the show okay no lots of cool stuff like a lot of the things that they announced aren't going to be available we seem to like snug inside the ear kind of disappear in way that even like the bows the bose like totally wireless headphones conceivably where everywhere if you andy and they the other features and I thought was really cool is that they also underscored that we're not necessarily not necessarily talking about it uh-huh away from the phone if you're outside with no obstructions hundred meters away from it so the idea of being anywhere in your house ring and who knows what else is going to come out in the interim I this is the thing with the Microsoft event like announcing things now that we're not gonNA see for a while it feels like such a tease I wish that they would have been available now so that you can especially because of the color schemes that they came out with were to match appropriate it just cooking or just like watching TV or whatever and suddenly be able to simply tap your and ask a question or make a note or an appointment or be reminded of something that's about the first edition of the Pixel budge which by the way are no are available for purchase on the Google playstore let's just let this thing four and which we think like how is that supposed to manage across like a large house I don't know but at the same time we're not going to get these until the spring one and they look a lot better than what else is on the market right now I mean I'm I like my galaxy buds but they're not perfect is your phone without being distracted by your phone and put it into audio which I think it'd be super super good not not available to spring twenty twenty though still by the way heard that they were only blue ah on an ideal seat for me but something is going to be I'm going to choose a fifteen to twenty seconds window star Trek Next Generation Gordon visor so it really seems like they're taking the most functional and useful nugget of Google as the ability to be able to seems like it seems like taking the the best parts of Google glass and taking away the fact that no one wants to walk around with a camera and an aw but it was it was still pretty nice when one last thing to covers at least they had they made sure the WanNa be distracted by having a phone in your hand so so that making the point that I think that what they said was that even if you're ill the work even if you're three really the new pixel force I mean they had that not so orange versions coming out they had like a like a nice mint bluish version had a white one black and I'm constantly having to push them back into my ear 'cause they protrude out so much apparently these don't it was also worth mentioning that there was not any real discussion around if they were I'm not going to put things in my ears that has been in other people's ears particularly members of the press because I know exactly what my hygiene is like but but they still bulge out a little bit it really it really felt like the foam earplugs that you've got him there of for for for actual noyce oppression so it feels like something that you would I I missed any of that I don't know I feel like are we not talking about that anymore we didn't talk about any accessibility features that could be unable to the Pixel Bud it's like I'm trying to think about like live transcribe or saying it sound amplifier like how are these things going to work and I understand that this is a keynote and we're doing it now to Kinda market these new things and tell the general population what they can do but you know it would have been nice to have a pair of working buds that I could and the Google assistant in what used what we were talking about what it could do with the first Gen Pixel Buds which was act as your translation assistant in the real world it's a lot of work and stuff but it really paid off they had they had some I don't know if they're functional in the in the demo room as such but we want to confer on all those who meet meet our people and the people who advised there that we aren't taking their job seriously whereas when we do this podcast WanNa have it in your hand if they're gonNA show if they're gonNA show them off to that extent a they you'd hope that they would have a ship date that's not quite squad questions about well and it's a tough question with for almost everything on the one hand I existed right now because then I wanna put him into the current landscape of what's going on and you know I already have so many things ever since the the Pixel Buds Demo I have really been noticing like those lollipop sticks sticking out of the air pods I don't know but again we're not going to be able to really talk about it until Spring Twenty twenty and it also underscores part of that storytelling that they've been doing where they there once again so much so much Google hearing me I mean in my in my car I have it in my home so I'm wondering if I really want this while I'm on the trail the term ambient computing as though that's a major cesis out this is the idea of computers and and services should just either when you need them they shouldn't make you take your head out of where you are right now in put your head into your phone space or your laptop space so it's it easily forget how much you spend on it like after the first week of using them and at four hundred seventy nine dollars could be something that I would be saying this is makes it feel as though you're not buying the sort of like a sort of island product that's detached from everything else that they do it sounds like they're saying doesn't seem like that much money but yeah but but to add to say that no this is not just so that you can listen to the same music everywhere except you don't have a core to with like I would much rather have like a good pair of thirty dollar USB ear buds and and the and one hundred fifty dollars leftover to spend on is it really will change my buying a Mutt my buying tactic if I know that really sounds good so even though it was even though maybe and lollipops dicks sticking out of people's ears but you see these everywhere so if it's something that makes your your commute your everyday thing your everyday carry more pleasant you can you know food and liquor city than but if you say no this will allow you to have access to the Google assist us a lot and use it everywhere work with my nails the Pixel book as it stands the first Gen has been wonderful however the epistle go I think would be great after a period company you talk about the keyboard of a laptop I wanna go and check it out because I have long natural nails and for me I need a very specific kind of keyboard a very specific kind of softness like my bose sound sport and with my galaxy buds so I'm just kind of I mean I have to press something I'm not just talking out loud I don't know I we I wish these no I was keen to see the new pixel book go I was kind of disappointed that looked like a laptop as opposed to hence the name go so the first thing that was said to me when I went over to that station was hey pick it up and see how easy it is to kind of pick it up with one hand and so I did this is part of the ecosystem Google which we can project these useful services in a place in places where you want those services but you don't want the distraction both services going for it so given that this given that the usual price for like true wireless ear buds of inequality is one hundred fifty two hundred dollars two hundred fifty dollars still a great laptop I think those of us who have it are going to hold onto it as long as we possibly can because the thing continues to be a machine it continues kind of work but not really and the at the airports of the first one to did it successfully but now it really I I could do nothing but see those cue tips and one of the biggest problems with the current pixel book is that it's a little bit dense so if I'm not engaging my wrist and I kinda have weak wrists okay if part of my everyday Kerry this is part of my this is part of the the the the arms and tools that I hurt myself with to go out into the real world in this industry are using pixelbook just to do journalism ing and they're really great laptops for that even though we complain a little bit about the ecosystem and how Reggie groupie texture which is very cool kind of a new little design paradigm I thought it was really nice if felt really nice opening and closing o'clock it's not doing all of these things hey guys I don't think that this is meant for you I think this pixelbook go is for everybody else I think the first Jan Pixelbook is the which I I don't think it ridiculous particularly because how well they work particularly compared to at the time of their release when true wireless ear buds on Black Friday I might have bought like those bodes those bows true wireless but if if I follow them for a really price now I will definitely not do anything not everything is available to us but we make do the pixelbook go a lot of what we're talking about or what they were talking about Google was the portability of it Wbz Andy included my buddies over at all about android pixel books I have a Pixel book a lot of folks of the laptops that were marketed to me when I was in college I remember that when I was buying a laptop for college the big thing was not only of time of kind of softening it up but what I think is interesting is the way everybody's been talking about it like oh but it's not like the first Gen pixelbook which is fine I guess for college kid who just writing papers I personally have not been super impressed Google cloud print all your work on it but you can use it for entertainment too because back then we were like still watching stuff on laptops well this thing has got like really loud speakers there louder than the current pixel books so when it comes to like printing and stuff that's still a thing I'm scratching my head about but maybe people had more success than I have maybe it's just because the my home network is I don't know but again the pixelbook go I see it really being marketed to the the uninitiated to the to the crumble you're listening to like Youtube whatever they had on there there's a big onus around this is the laptop for Kinda doc ecosystem the folks who don't necessarily need a powerful APP but who have that ability and remember Google's putting a lot into development x and my thumb to kind of try it out and I was able to do that I held it up like a service trae very easy on the bottom it has this kind of on engaging my wrists just write it kind of feels like I'm picking up a heavy rock whereas this thing I picked it up like this with my finger you know my index yes my that if you've fear commuter and the other in New York City subways and just on the sidewalks you just see these things everywhere and and I have to say that I have it was very comfortable to kind of type on I was just sitting there like writing my internal thoughts over the Hechos writing the speakers are really good and they remind me says the chromebook for everybody else who wants to spend money on a good powerful chromebook because you can get up to a core I seven configuration it starts with the Intel mobile chips and the black clam shell when you look at these things aesthetically they match that kind of like jovial junior s like junior person in the world ever-growing there is but blackened not pink I want you all to remember back to the macbook I want you all to think back as far back as two thousand they'll buy it that's we have yet to see this is for the kids who were in middle school and high school chromebooks and are going to college in her saying the next edition of the Pixelbook I think he spent more time with just a little bit of okay yes well the big thing is whenever I hear three two thousand four okay because that's when I was entering college the Mac book that people had back then I think it was still the book and it was the white clam shell a static that's Google's going for with this so if you're turning your nose up at it I'm sorry I don't think this chromebooks for you it's it's very younger crowd and we'll see for these chromebooks so you do have android studio on them you do have Lennox apps on them you do have the ability to to code with a lot of like John Expensive it's I mean I know we talk about it's it's worth it but particularly for particularly for something that's that's attractive that cuts the nominal price down to like eighty dollars for me because I feel like I'm getting really I have the access to the Google assistant with and I'm just I was mad last night because of everything that was going on I I still am going to enable all this I got my free little second text apps and the kind of APPs available in the ANDROID APP store so and it comes in a pink color which I know everybody's like inspire and inform other makers but also it will fill out the the product lines the product line that's available from multiple multiple manufacturers plays I'm already using them as part of the security system I mean they tell me when someone's at the door I get visuals when someone's at the door with the smart displays so I'm that'd be outside the Office for a couple of hours so so I'm not the audience for this new The pixelbook glow but I'm glad that they're continued to show any and I'm Gonna I'm GonNa install it I mean it's it's going to go in the house and I'm going to do what Google told us to do which is to add are smart speakers and smart the original pixelbook is kind of is kind of what I want I love the really is like the best of both worlds of tablet and laptop for me when I'm traveling or whether I'm just he coming in this room right just heard the slavering the slavering drooling maw of hell beasts eating its way into off here is what our design aesthetic is about here's what we think a good version of Pixel chromebook should be and of course that's going to it's going to both the machine learning artificial intelligence button where I think the machine learning or artificial intelligence but in there and talking about how instead of simply giving you owe lights on in this room all the art speakers into assistance temperature sensors and things like that they're making as a also kind of address also addressing the point that we are aware that some of the some of the most useful I'm this is what I'm going to spend my money out and and to be this isn't like a Mac book where Google is the only person the only company making Pixel books you can affordable so that that was good news they did they did some there are some really liked about it one of them is just simply once again pressing the artificial expre- it's pretty cool stuff you can we can we talk about nest without ruining things for you I'm sorry going to use them the way Google told us to their that's another part of the story they are telling about we've got a we've got a whole home sort of approach to this offers of nest involved the subscription service that you think are are unbearably expensive and so we're kind of doing a new home plan that will be kind of more directed sir ecosystem there and it's it's actually kind of important they're also making points about how now can directly talk to so many different products different companies are being purchased and sold from one way or another you also want to make sure that you're giving this data to a company that treats security I will never say that I trust any big small small company completely however this is why I tend to trust Google at security down. HP Go any Lenovo if you want something that's more like the original chromebook you can go get it for for me that's what I've written movement in this room because it's got the microphone and because it's got like smarts it can say oh by the way there's the sound of a dog mark oh by the way so when you get an s. they have the national mini which will talk about in the next segment could be book so you got to basically nest only has wall hanger and a speaker out that's yeah they they may not be able to get me to stop calling it the Google home but it's about at least they're underscoring that this the more the more that you seem to invest Actually I think the last thing that we we can talk about before we move onto actually hands on stuff they really wanted to make make a point of how Eko okay that I don't think if I had children I don't think that they would be suffering from climate change maybe my grandchildren wouldn't but my great grandchildren they're the ones that because not only did they have the resources for this but they also have the attitude that they treat it very very seriously it's not a PR disaster if suddenly they release it the number and all of them are

Google Andy executive Soho Martha Stewart Annie Liebowitz Anne Frank Equifax rape Yahoo director reporter Martha Stewart Martha Stewart three months three minutes ten percent three days one hand
Lennon Parham

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

1:48:42 hr | 1 year ago

Lennon Parham

"Welcome welcome. Welcome armchair expert. I'm DAX prather and I'm joined by Monica Monsoon. I didn't know what was going to come out. Oh No what was your some of your thoughts that maybe you were going to do. Like Sound Fat Foley. We haven't done fully in a long time. My beard isn't long enough kind of got shorter sheer right now. If you watch bless this mess which help you do? One of my favorite characters on the program K. Yes played by the Wonderful Lennon. Parham is here today. In aside from all the things you know are from which. I'm sure you've seen her on parks and REC and curb your enthusiasm. She had her own show called best friends forever and her own show playing house. But I know are mostly from bless this mess in A. She's just my favorite person as spend the day with I've never forever because she's a superstar at UC. She's a legend hero Improv. Yes and so. I've been in a mire of her from afar for longtime viewers from afar became friends. So please enjoy Lennon Parham. We are supported by Daya Monica. You know the most unexpected thing that happened to me this week. What happened to you? I try days new improved PLANT BASED FROZEN PIZZA. And it was delightful. I mean to be honest much better than I was expecting a plant based pizza would be. We made a slew of him. You were there kids. Gobbled them all up. I couldn't stay away. It was delicious. I tried the Daham meatless pepperoni pizza and I loved the crust was Golden. It was thin and it was crunchy the best part. No dairy no meat no sewing gluten so I felt like a trillion dollars after consuming far more pizza than anyone should in one sitting. I'll tell you this. It's no wonder that day is the number one plant based pizza in the business. Now you know that we both support be more plant based in our day to day lives. Yeah it's one of our twenty twenty goals yours more than mine but you're doing a great job but now I have another tool in my plant based toolbox so grab a day a pizza today for some unexpected goodness on your table and for Arm Cherries Day is giving you a free plant frozen pizza just visit. Daya Foods Dot Com Slash Dax for a free pizza coupon while supplies last. That's DA Y. A. FOODS DOT COM slash tax. He's not is in the calendar. I designed to design the calendar. Oh Yeah it's a men's shoes abdomen. That is just by looking at it. Because here's the just HAP- swell different body parts album body part. I haven't listened to episode where he talked about this. I was saying a great thing for charity for kids wouldn't be celebrities private parts just their private parts counter. Don't know who's who on the on the front of the calendar you have all these famous faces and then inside is their genitalia. But we don't know your left his narrow down a bottle thing right if you know that it's out of these twelve people. I think I'm going to be able to pick out. Hans to taste are photograph. I think it's still guests though because if let's say it's twelve men and then inside it's just twelve close ups of penis intestinal. I don't know number one who's going to buy that because women they don't WanNa close above a d. I agree for Gay males primarily me in Rob Tobacco. That is true. Yeah and again. It's to support in further. The thriving of children for kids know that seems problematic. Exactly I mean yeah maybe it would raise a bunch of money but then and then we give that right to the kids who need it handed out. I'm wearing now so the men would buy one. There's twelve famous female faces on the front. Yeah then inside is Minora Majora. All the parts. Labia everything comes out was just like I don't know like an Annie Liebowitz like from the front like an artistic version or is it like no. It's full spread bend over doggy. Style iphone photo portrait road of correct. The calendar is called doggy. Style for children. That is the name of the count. The much bigger point gets so. It's so narrowly focused on the Genitalia. There's everyone's safe that's on the cover face. There's a high probability of deniability there's a level of anonymity it's only well. It's gotTa be all white women you know what I mean like. You'RE GONNA wear down if you have people of color or all could do a half and half would be best now. That's an even better layer is that we have different ethnicities so we're also dividing up ethnicities in the CAL. No it'll be embraced. That's way worse. Oh my God that there's white black and white steam you tone. You'd still be able to Sepia. What if it's to me? It's like if it's a page a day counters three sixty five page today then can just so much so many more people to choose from than I really am not sure at any day. Who's that's right. We don't have to include the faces on the front. It can just be like the calendar I made based off of this. There's no faces on the front. It's just body parts so you don't know did guess all of them he did accept I in one of them. Let me show on. Hold all man horse. I'm not a pervert. I WANNA show you one that I. I'm so proud of guessing. Just a specific one man. Aereo this was one of them. Oh isn't that Great Lanka's so clever? It's an X-ray it will to self body skin an iphone. We had this doctor Eric. Topol who is promoting people getting involved with their health with their own iphone. There's all these different APPS and you can try. And he's given himself many body scans and diagnosed himself with some stuff i. I don't think the normal iphone Ken right now. But he's like that's where technology is going and he has that access and this is from his iphone inside of his body. Wow Yeah and and I got it and it felt great anyways. That's mcilhenny okay. GotTa who weirdly enough boldly going nowhere. Yeah same boldly going nowhere. Yeah that ROB mcilhenny wrote. Yeah that was like my first thing ever I mean really. It was like a big deal. Yes okay so. I think that's one of the funniest screenplay I've ever read my life. It was so fucking funny and the pilot was produced. Pilot was hilarious. It was great. Yeah Tony Hale was in it. What the news I had heard was that they did the pilot and Fox one at them to Redo it. Oh Okay and then they were like no no thank you but thank you so much to do your own show your own way for so long and then somebody comes in and says like Hey Redo this for another three million dollars. You're like no we just did it. That's what we wanted to do and we've done it if you don't want that then move on dot. Org Yes yes. Move on dot org but it's also like the chemistry of it right like when. Jefferson. I did all of our shit like that was cooked in. You know what I mean and when we would go out people were like this is electric. You know in the room. It's electric because this is who we really are. I'm cutting her off. I'm correcting her. She's punching up my stories you know and we know each other super well so it's like baked in and that's how we write as well and I think that you get that that's part of the package whereas if you're casting a comedy and you're like I hope these people feel like they're married and that they love each other and that there's a connection we can hang a whole show on there is an intangible magic thing about chemistry that I defined for anyone yeah at Kenner and I. We're so different right. We have the same though comedy vocabulary so when we start playing I mean part of it is just. We're having such a good time together. And he's always trying to make me break because he knows if I laugh it was really funny because I I'm not gonNA give him like a courtesy lap and vice versa. Like I'm always trying to make him breaker. You know say something that he didn't expect so that feels good. I think to watch and then be witness to think that when people are having fun it's palpable. Yeah how did you meet Jessica? We both did the upright citizens brigade a New York but she was already on a team. When I started taking classes. There Saint Clair. We should yes. She was on a team already and then I started when I moved to New York did second city I. There was like a sort of a satellite program. And so I did that first and then everybody was like you gotta get on a team at UC. Because that's where it's at like. Yeah that's the fast track. That's where there's a home theater where you're gonNA be performing every week. That's where all the good people are going. And I was like signed me up so I went and saw. I saw her do mother. Which was her like Improv. Team her legendary legendary okay. Scott Armstrong Man's suitcase like at like all the big dogs. Yeah the biggins and she was also did two person stuff with Jason like they had a couple written scripted shows and then they had a pilot for HBO as well. Oh Yeah Oh I think the first time I spoke to her she was getting a haircut and the back feels very one of our teachers given her lack of asymmetrical thought. All right this is. It's very dark back and then it's kind of an Alpha move though right to get your hair styles. Backstage kind of like feels very vulnerable feels queen of the roost. Like can you imagine view into a studio president? He was getting his hair trimmed or she was getting her hair term during the meeting. I'll be right with you You tell me about your looks good. Let's go shorter on it and you said there was a second daycare reminds me of Mike. Judge one time told me he might just the longest list of complaints and they're all wonderful. They're all things that like. He's putting a voice to one of them. Is like you ever take a meeting with him like a dog lover and then the dogs all on you and then they make you feel bad for not being into dogs and I was having a an awful shock from the woman said. Oh are you not a dog person and I did think it is comical to have a fucking hundred pound dog in your small office and I thought what if you had a chimpanzee as a pet like if if dogs are on the table why not anything? Yeah snakes girls up in between your net your leg serving the half man Jackson. I did have a meeting. We were pitching our show at the time we were calling it ladies and a baby changed names to playing house but we pitched it to this guy who sat like open crotch to us like legs. Akimbo man spread feet up on the coffee table and there was direct in his crotch a worn down patch where you can see right through. This is the big time guy to a big time producer name on a ladder show and then he was like after we did our whole pitch which evolved like scenes and stuff like that that we act out in front of you which. I don't know maybe five minutes and I was like I don't WanNa do this anymore. Like this guy for sure is not going to be a partner that I wanNA continue it. But afterwards he was like. Sounds like a multi cam to me and I was like bit like it isn't pitch that we're not pitching that he was like well. But it would be a great multi-cap dude get your Dick out in life and I ask some follow your that. He scratched so much that he and worn the fabric down. Is that why the fabric was so thin? I don't know it was a light. Wash gene okay. I'm guessing his fave pair shirt. There were patches all throughout okay so as threadbare in their gusset. I think it was both I think maybe it was like the fashion choice to have it kind of on the inner thigh. Okay then maybe he'd worn them so much and like the friction of it made the whole move up. Yeah you could see through to thighs slash undies okay. Wow loudest pieces in me. Put that on a calendar. Okay okay good to know for next year and immediately makes me think and I'm going to not say his name friend of mine did a movie with Matthew mcconaughey and Matthew invited my friend in my friend's cousin to come over to his trailer up on the P. C. H. To hang for the afternoon yeah and when they got there mcconaughey was wearing like a very short cut off denim shorts and tracks my friend and his buddy getting the car to leave in the buddy says. Did you see McConnell as nuts and he goes. Oh my God it's all I could see and he goes. Weren't they fucking beautiful so beautiful like they were? And they both just couldn't believe how beautiful his testicles were. That's the only reason I tell story. Because ultimately they were fucking thunderstruck with her. Because I want to see a photo of that. Because I'm like I don't believe I have picture in my head of it. I'm picturing very little wrinkles. Just taught balls yeah and Very Tan and smooth their exercises. You do to tighten up your scrotal sac there. Are you know McConnell? He knows them that's true. I imagine he does like a lot of squats. Yes and I imagine them like Volvo balls just real big testing. They were hanging aloe the short because he was like. Houston up like this and in the Cape. He gave me a cut off. Jean shorts no no panties testicles drooping long enough They were hanging below the shore. Not necessarily 'cause you know those shorts they pick aside yet that's right. They're going to land one very generous society. This is a man short shorts right. These are short short. Short Textbook. Mcconaghy's. Wow It makes me understand his competence. Oh a little bit more. Does he have kids? Ya Ya Scott Kid. Many beautiful white yeah. I don't think many I think like three. Oh really that's but I can't wait to hear the follow up on the we know we'll find out. We'll find out so jess haircut in dark. Yeah so we knew each other like we were in the world together but she was sort of of a legendary status right and then she you can check her black and white head shot on the streets of Soho for this but she went up for pilot season like ready to get plucked out because she was the singular beauty and also funny as hell and I stayed in New York. Still doing my thing right and then when I came out for pilot seasonably going. Nowhere excetera. Yeah we went out to lunch. I did my one woman show. She saw it. We did a yoga class together. That was insane like an advanced teacher and we were upside down with like our head on a block like looking at each other like we'd never neither one of us ever done yoga and somehow ended up in this level three and just locked eyes and we were like this is it. This is forever started just improvising while we were eating Turkey Chili and then came up with an idea. We should we do this. Do want to do this. Yeah we pitched an idea for a script and we sold it to. Hbo and we wrote that for like a year. And then we were both on sitcoms. At the time she was on a show called in the motherhood which was Meghan. Mullaly and Cheryl hines. Okay her about my. That's a lot of firepower. Yup Yup and I was on a show called accidentally on purpose. Where Jen off? Men's weird sister but it was a multi Cam. Okay and so for me. It was like a perfect segue into show business. 'cause I just been doing live shows like four times a week teaching Improv and here I am like getting to do like full monologues in front of a studio audience. Can I ask like so when you mentioned because she was already on a team? Yeah I'm kind of ignorance on how you see be works. So how. How long would it take from the day you walk in the door? They're not so you could be on a team or and then your case and then teaching. I think this is different now. But at the time you had to complete at least three levels before you could even audition for a team and they. They had auditions. Maybe once or twice a year so I was in the fourth level basically which was three B. at the time when I auditioned for a team and got on a team and taken to go through those three and a half level I started taking classes in two thousand and two and maybe I got on a team in two thousand three at some point. Okay and do women move faster through the program then men? There are fewer of us in general. But I don't think so. I mean like eight weeks I think yeah. The classes are eight weeks. They have intensive now. So you could like do a class in two week. Yeah Oh wow like if I went through the program now. I'm not sure I would've gotten on a team so quickly. Okay so I would say the chances of getting on a team never are very high But it was so lopsided with people entering the groundlings yeah. I don't know what it was but probably three to one men to women so like my sister went through three times faster than I. Oh Yeah I was always waiting around for next levels and still I see. Yeah Yeah No. They didn't segregate. They're just were less women doing it road. I mean but they didn't like cold men back. You had to prioritize it like you to wait the sidewalk to sign up for classes and you have to be one of the first twenty people in line to get in the class for the whatever you wanted and you had to have cash. Yeah and your form filled out and all that jazz and that while it is and then I was on a team for a couple years. I was on an eight person. Team called dillinger which was a herald team Zach Woods Anthony King. Another way dairy team. She can't Cam and we had. I think we have three women to start with. I think it was one of the first teams that had more than one woman on it and so that was fun to do. Yeah but people might not know but I know which is so exciting you and Monica. Are Georgia Sisters Marietta? No no it's wrong on a wikipedia. Your Duluth Right. Yeah we're both Gwinnett County. When that county I grew up in Lilburn was born at northside. Hospital in a T. L. proper. My mom works for North site. There you go. Yeah and then we moved when I was four. Two Gwinnett county to Lilburn which is adjacent to Stone Mountain. Oh sure laser show staging of the KLU Klux Klan combat. That's right that's right proud history physicist. Did you go hang there ever like in your teen years as a destination to have some cocktails and make out and stuff. I wasn't part of that group crew as it were it would be. It would be more like we're like making best friends with the dude at dairy queen or yeah I mean I was at a youth group I was going to the United Methodist Youth Fellowship. Okay like Christian Youth Thing Multiple Times a week. Okay and so. I had a totally separate friend group from my church to my school that you would meet at the. Yeah I guess we did go to Goodall Place. Mall thousand my mom. Oh that's your stranger things mall. Oh it didn't know. Yeah yeah the ice cream shop in the ice cream shop. And the yeah spoiler alert creature destroys. Yeah I didn't hold the hell. Did you not recognize? The ball has changed yes and when? I was a testing familiar to me look similar to when I was growing dated a bit. Yeah they made it like an eighties mall. Yeah but some of the pillars like. Oh Yeah I remember that center. Yeah I get a feeling just from watching that stranger thing. Yeah get a a warmth. When I see a mall like that I spent so much time at the mall so fun. Walking around like most people in contempt casuals. Oh definitely was boy crazy. But it wasn't reciprocated. Okay no patty cake. No no so I was. There was a lot alike leering and like but like every time dances would happen. I would be like Scott. Will you go to homecoming with me? And there he would be like no. I got three knows from three different guys own for my senior prom. No yes nine. All watch less in fucking cut themselves. Yeah it's you know it's not surprising but it's not surprising. Surprise surprise -able really went to seventh grade right there. No I look like I was twelve until I was twenty four and then I look like I was eighteen. Yeah you know Look Eighteen. Thank you yeah congrats. What Lane were you in? Were you funny in like junior high and high school? I was always a real weirdo. Okay I always like freak flag fly. I was like Halloween. Was my time to shine. Oh really do you like seventh grade. I made my own. I was inspired by putting on the hits. Do you remember that show was a lip sync competition show. Oh my God Google it is. It was at a plan putting on the Ritz. Probably sounds like yeah. That show has stuck with me in so many ways but people would do a lip sync performance like one guy did endless love and painted half of his body Diana his body Lionel Richie and we would just turn to sing each part of so. There was a costume on putting on the hits that I was inspired by and so in seventh grade I came as Carmen. Miranda you know. They'll like Chiquita Bananas. We know all about her who she can Charles. Riding on the back of a man so I built a cardboard box right with the head and torso of a man and then my legs were his legs. And then I built fake Chiquita. Banana lady legs that hang hung over his shoulders. Oh my own sounds over it like did your parents at all look at it and go like. Oh my God sweetie. It's so great in their mind. Like what the fuck is this? What is this? They let me go for it they did. They leaned into the the weirdness of it I was like. I know that this is unusual. Yeah was this costume ahead. I got a photo yearbook but I don't. I don't think anybody else was as proud of me as Iowa. Pass a group of people that were in the middle of talking about what a great outfit. It was definitely not okay. If anything they're snickering about. How Weird Perla Tive in your euro? I was really gunning for the funniest. Yeah clown and I didn't get it. Who got it at no? I don't no okay. I hope she's watching Blah. I'd bitch you probably got went out with. Scott is my hunch yeah Scott owns a wine shop Atlanta now. Oh he does. He's doing great. You're pretty dialed into what's up all the moves. He's making good. Mary Nice doing great. Oh that's wonderful. He's doing good for California. I named the character after one guy at asked out mark. Rodriguez this is real name. Or that's the name created for the character. That's his real name. Okay good well. There's so many Mark Rodriguez but that was Keegan's character name. I'm playing house. We said he was yes he was. Dominican is my husband is Dominican and so we thought he's passes Dominican Keegan. Sure so good. Thank you know what they do. My mom was a social worker so she worked in private practice and out of churches and stuff in marriage and family therapy and then got a more corporate job like managing mental health care for bigger companies like Home Depot Excetera whenever there was a crisis at home depot like a employees. A seasonal employees went bananas. She would swoop in. They deploy her. Yeah and not to get into any kind of disparaging situation with Home Depot but how frequent was deployed remember. I think because Home Depot employees so many. I don't WanNa get a slander against me. Or whatever letter a cease and desist letter from HD. Yeah I think because they employ so many seasonal employees right. I don't know there's not a lot of loyalty or like overarching. Care Block. It's a disposable. You got it the opposite of Costco Employees which are the happiest employees in the world. They pay them very well. Yeah never quit. The yeah the managers I remember. We are shooting in one in New Mexico and this guy was pulling down. Four fifty. A year is the manager will cost like this is phenomenal for everyone. I hate us go. Oh my God. I can't can't win on too much overwhelming. Well if you ever gone off hours when it's not a people is the products too much stuff. Oh okay boy. Yeah we're feeling and then like the idea that I'm going to have to consume. Three bread loaves quickly. Like I just don't recommend for perishables ziobro tissue about but shampoo as Ziplock bags buying a big fucking thing. Go Oh my God. I won't be out of other like I don't have enough space in my house to have a second place ziplock. I didn't either I shop at Costco when I lived in a one bedroom apartment. There were stuff stacked up under tables. You know no no. Thank you okay. That's not for you thank you. And what did your man do? He did a couple of things when I was born. He worked at the Cab County Department of Recreation. He would like help manage the pools and the Softball Program Baseball Program. And then he worked for air conditioning company Hvac yeah and then he worked for Goodman Painting and decorating. They did like IBM Tower downtown. I did the Atlanta airport. When it got remodeled Kareem. Yeah and he was like an estimator so he would go in and do the bid on the project. Okay Okay in all this movement driven by an opportunity would present itself or was he just restless both. I think okay. I could be wrong but I feel like he was taking jobs. That would pay him more money. That would give me more opportunity right right. So everything was like an upgrade. Yes for his salary not necessarily like was it. Satisfying did it give him joy. He started to get really into bluegrass music. He'd always been a musician. He played the drums. That's how he paid his way through college. Playing in a group called the sweet young ends that covers late sixty songs that title work today. Sweet young on offense. We're GONNA do a calendar Children's hospital looking dude. Heavy band called sweet young. I I don't know I just think today what I'm saying. Maybe I mean they were in matching like sergeant pepper like jackets. Do you know what I mean. She'll worked at Ya. Wasn't overtly sexual aggressive. Okay I mean this is also the era of lag. Young girl get on them. You know which is about a dude having an obsession with a teen girl. So many songs about most songs were about that. Yeah she watcher she. You will lose fifteen years old. I don't even know what the about but I have to imagine. It's not great. What are you singing about a fifteen year old girl? Just don't say that age. I know why police song references. Yeah Yeah I love that song. It's an older and I. I remember it being rumored growing up because sting had been a teacher before he was staying. That was some kind of personal situation. Round does student. She watches like he's basically saying he's been seduced by knows be waiting bus. Stop grows like a bus. I oh my gosh yes. It's problematic goof but also like the stuff that all of my romantic dreams. I saw Monica too. I mean she never was attracted to anyone less than twice her age. Tacitly even still. I had up my age on Rhianna so that Brad Pitt could fit nicely in all range. Bad keep him in she. Hollywood yeah yeah only on Simon and she immediately got home and change. Her rioted include his age. That's a real story Justin K. Are you you WANNA have a family? maybe okay. Yeah how you're already too. Yeah Yeah Yeah okay. I some time for sure. I'm sure you have time. Yeah you've time I've ever to freeze her eggs and paid for by the way armchair expert as a as a company has offered of pay for her because Netflix as my friend. Got It done because we're so cool. Yeah you don't want you don't think the employer should be involved with her eggs. Is that what? You're I mean? Yeah it was nice that it's covered if the person wants it sort of underlying lesson there is like you can keep working that. That's that's how I don't think that's your intention but like you don't do this right now. You have to stop working. You can have better there being sixteen coming home from the hospital. Is Your brand new? Little Baby WanNA interrupt your career right. Now is such a great job. Clinton the shit out of this ladder. You're almost says you're yeah. I'm not certain about the children. Okay but I WANNA partner. Yeah I'm just saying someone in your age range is GonNa be better parent with someone would start by saying probably are like half his involved when they're your age now you add in some near retiree. It just gets a little scarier. Not Going to be a full partner like squatting down on the floor and doing tummy. Time six. I'm going to be doing tummy. Time all the more reason you gotta get him even younger. Yeah is your. Is Your husband older. The new or you're a eleven months older than me okay. First of all her husband. Hobby are yeah. I asked him not to pronounce it like that. I kept saying this morning. The kissing scene the be. I know 'cause I like I like that benefit letters other letters. Matha Lana V of B. I feel like it could be. Holly are like me and she was getting offended for you on your behalf episode. Bless this mess. And he's a fucking babe he's a smoke and not surprise. Surprise -able chemistry. I could feel it. I was impressed that he was so confident because he he's not an actor he's never out now and you you throw him right into the firepit he was. He was said you very true introvert. Okay he's an educator he's an educator works for a company called big picture learning so he helps schools change models right now is working with a lot of continuation schools. Vocational Schools Alternative Education. And they're sort of re routing like what school looks like we reshaping reforming it. Yeah so lake was like you're going to have to kiss somebody in the scene. Would your husband wanted to write things? But ask him Alaskan but I really didn't think he was going to do it and then he said yes. Sounds good was like Oh. Don't you think about it like overnight like I don't know what you think in the morning like a big question you have to take a whole day off from work. And then he was like no I want to do it and I was like I was so nervous. I was nervous for him to have a good experience. I was nervous for Lake and for the show to get what they wanted. And I never thought in a million years he was ever. GonNa say yes. What if he know rocketed past you? Career God no thank you. I want to support him in what he's doing. Now right not anything not anything beyond radical career. So good at what he does to our costume designer was like like what's your treat man. Like what do you want a man and I was like throw Bolo Tie giving cowboy boots tight? Wrangler did it and he did look very handsome. Yeah in a blazer and stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare your supported by Rossi's I can't think of a company that makes more stylish sustainable shoes and bags anywhere in the world. There are carefully crafted with ECO. Friendly materials like repurpose plastic water bottles. Which makes me so happy because there's a gazillion water bottles and you just keep asking yourself what the heck are they gonNa do with all these in Roth? These has a plan. They make beautiful shoes. That are incredibly comfortable. There all machine washable become an ever changing array of colors prince and patterns and they're available in a range of styles. 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Now as you guys know I love getting in these beautiful hotel quality sheets getting nude and just sliding around and just riding as much as I can and feeling those soft soft linens all over my body. I really recommend everyone. Slide into their Brooklyn in Brooklyn and is so confident. In their product that all their sheets comforters lounge wear towels come with a lifetime. Warranty go on make yourself comfortable. Get Ten percent off your first order and free shipping when you use Promo Code Armchair only at Brooklyn in Dot Com. That's B. R. O. O. K. L. I N. E. N. dot com Promo Code Armchair and hey New Yorkers if you're listening you can get the Internet's favorite sheets and more in real life visit. Brooklyn's first store in Brooklyn at one twenty seven Kent Avenue in Williamsburg Brooklyn Everything. You need to live your most comfortable life being from Georgia. Yeah maybe cowboy boots. Can you get into that? I guess like I think I rebelled against it because it was so prevalent everywhere and I felt like it wasn't who I was and so I like actively did not listen to country music. I hated it. I was vocal about not liking it and not liking that sort of like redneck Called Reversion Hall. Yeah yeah but I mean all of my family's from Rural Alabama rural Georgia Lake. It's southern as you get. It's deep South and so when I went when I did teach for America after college and I lived in Lake in the deep deep South in Mississippi it was only country radio stations and I fell in love with country music. Did you assess that like okay? Here's the going thing in Georgia. Yeah big blond hair fat naturals. Ya All this stuff guests add. Yes I'm not going to be able to play that game so I'm going to pick another game do you remember what was motivating you to kind of reject? That did you think you weren't going to be included in that. I I mean I think I was trying to be that but like felt so weird anytime I would do any of that like try on Sexuality Fair Foreign and I good but I knew I was funny like maybe because my parents in my like growing up education there was not like a separation between adults and children like my mom was very like I want you to feel like you're on equal playing level and in the south in the eighties. That wasn't necessarily like your kids are safe. Ma'am Yeah Yeah so like. If I were to have like an adult conversation with an adult as a seven-year-old that would make the adult very uncomfortable right right. Yeah Yeah Yeah but I had that sort of like weird confidence in my weirdness like very early on right and it made everyone uncomfortable. I just felt like I hadn't found my people like felt like I needed to go. Seek those Pale swear. Yeah Yeah and the only thing. I could see that it was was theater because that's where I kind of felt like I fit in and my high school even though it wasn't exactly and then senior year we did Comedy Sports Competition and we won my school one. Oh Wow and I had like the blow of the whole time. Yeah big block outline. Yeah it was one of these Improv Games. Where you like say freeze and then you add on and so you have to like make whatever physicality the people who are already in the scene doing makes sense with your initiation and I was the very last person so it was like a lot of freeze and then it would be three people freezing and it'd be four people and then I was the eighth person and I said freeze and everybody was like Washington us and I think I came out and leaped in started singing. I'm on a and it was like bananas. Saw What a moment. That's kind of like Monica State Championship. You yeah couple so yeah you went to college and you majored in theater has to be wrong on wikipedia. You don't have a B. S. Yeah I do why so? Our school had like bs would be like the performance major. Like if you did scenic design or something very specific but I was accepted into the program as what's called a generalist and that was someone who could kind of do all of those things and had good in high school. That was all trae. Yeah what school is this University of Evansville Southern Indiana? Oh and so. They had like a very good liberal arts theater program and it was like eat sleep and breathe theater but I did costume design. I did directing I did acting I. You know I was really pushing the acting like accepted me as a way to see. This actually spent a good overall education. I felt like and I think that's why I gotTA BE. But that also enabled me to do things like minor infraction. Yes so when you got out of college you went and taught French. Yeah Yeah two years. I auditioned for like a bunch of Grad schools for theater like I wanted to get a masters in theater at Yale rap or something right but they didn't care for that idea as much so you've got your more of a generalist. Yeah and I hadn't honed in on the comedy piece you know right. I had always thought about doing something like a Peace Corps but that thought real scary to me and Americorps and teach for America was like a new program. At that time it had only been around a couple of years and I had been teaching on and off in different various ways all my life and I thought maybe this'll give me a couple years of growing up that I like I would need fortitude before I hit the main street to New York and try to sell my wares and then so after two years of teaching. Which was that any sting situations studio? It was interesting. 'cause language of love. I was at the time maybe three years older than some of them. Which is Tony? Two years old and I've got seniors. Who are old for seniors like nineteen year old young men who are like on the football team Gmail Body? There was a gentleman named theon Drik Scott to do more they also call them not Iraq. He was a delight but also a challenge in the classroom. And so if I did wear like. They noticed everything. So I was very generic. I'd tried to not like instigate anything again. You're three years older than them. I know they were like MS P. How old are you? How old are you and I was like? I'm not going to tell you that. But I'm eighty three. They would be like. Oh she's thirty eight flip the script you know. Now it'd be like that's great. Let them believe what they WANNA believe. I'm not available to them. Passing Right Ninety ROCK BLURRED THE LINE. Do some like suck in his teeth than like. Oh boy but mostly at slaked steep no. I kicked him out one time. 'cause a student was giving a presentation and he was like. Oh Lincoln at looking her up and down. I was like no no no hon out. You're out and then he he said that's Audie rock do yeah and then he goes outside and I was teaching my. I had half of a double wide trailer t all Western High School in Greenville Mississippi. And so he goes out the door and like five minutes later. I just see the top half of him jumping up above the window and he's like be prejudiced against men frigid. It's like not out of it was like when I got to New York after Teaching High School for two years. I was like bringing it fucking on is there is nothing harder in the who were then teaching and teaching high school and you were living in rural Mississippi by yourself. When moved there I had a roommate other people other teachers so we got like a little tiny house which was like the nicest place I've ever live. It was like the cost of living. There is nothing I did start dating while I was there one of the other teachers. No well I met him doing community. Theatre. Oh yeah yeah so like after the first semester. When I was like drowning and depression I was like I gotta do something. That's for me because I can't just like chain smoke on my patio to get over this shit because it was hard it was a very. How do the Teachers Party hard like in this house? You guys get home from that day of school and my roommate was not not of that. Ilk worker who like stuffed peppers or whatever. Sure but I yeah I mean we would go out. There was like a place called the HAL joy. Chinese restaurants had a lounge. Attach this. Yeah Yeah Yeah and there was curiosity every Friday and Saturday nights. You could find me. They're very frequently. It's this is a weird mix of like it sounds present. Sounds like heaven to me until I found that outlet and then I was doing like the community theater productions of Narnia. Xm smoke on the mountain in your lover. Yeah Yeah you had some good strong drinks Chinese restaurant. I had like my go-to Karaoke songs. Ernie fancy by REBA mcentire. I was doing a Lotta Pat. Ben Atar Oh wait. Was this boyfriend your first real boyfriend. I know in College College. Yeah my first. Love was in college. Where did you go onto? He's Working Actor yes very successful very successful. He works I works. Have you ever bumped into him? Yes and audition added Cipolla in Union Square. Okay well that's a little different imagining you get to work and use find your scene. Partner's your own in and alchemy. Split or heartbreaking split broke up and then got back together and but he was with. My friend was on. It was nasty. I hope he's watching blesses. Medicine is also upset. I'm sure he's upset. When I'm watching buses there's so many people are pissed when they watch buses so really quick. The big choice to move to New York. Was there a moment? Where you're like. I'm fucking doing this. Laverne and Shirley style I knew it was gonna be either New Yorker La. For a long time I got a U. Haul my mom and I actually drove the U. Haul up the coast and like drove across like the Verizon Bridge. It was so nerve wracking. Was She scared for you? And she was terrified but she never let on. Oh that's nice. That's one thing that I hope to be able to do because I think about what it must have felt like for her to let me go to Teredo country over to the Almighty God thinking about letting my children go do something like that. I mean I'm so like before. She goes out the door to an ice skating lesson. I'm like okay let's talk about. Let's cover some basis. If this happens let's do you know and there was just none of that fear. I didn't feel that fear from them. There was something in me. That was just like let's do this. So how? How long in total was that stretch? I was in New York from two thousand a two thousand ten but in two thousand eight. I started coming to La. Okay and then. I got a job here so I would be here for like three weeks and then go back to Brooklyn for a week. And when did you meet her like a month? After I moved there. No Way Yeah doing what teaching. So I got a job as an advisor to a group of incoming teachers for the New York equivalent of the teach for America Program. Okay and it was a bunch of Tefa alumni that were running it and so they knew me and they knew that I knew what I was doing and so they hired me and I would like for a month in the summer in July and August. We would go to. Grad school classes and I would do like two hours of lesson planning and grade books and classroom management stuff and we would do role playing and practice lessons and all this stuff and he was one of the twenty five teachers. Most of them were like in their twenties and thirties and they relate leaving whatever job they had to go teach public school or in his case he'd been teaching private middle school and now he was going to be teaching public school. And the program paid for you to get your masters all. These people were going to Brooklyn College at the same time and getting a master's degree in he got it in poetry. We took enough education credits to make it count That sense so when you guys decided to move to. La Permanently. Was that hard for him. He moved to New York when he was five from the Dominican Republic And He'd been in Brooklyn Twenty five years that point. Yeah so we got married. I think we're like thirty thirty one when we got married and we met when we were twenty five and I mean that was where all his family was got. Four brothers and mother like. Cuz Very tight family. Yeah and I felt like it wasn't allowed to ask really but I knew my career was like bringing me out here and at the same time that I got my first like accidentally on purpose series picked up to series and jess and I were writing the script. He became a principal of a brand new high school that he had created in Brooklyn. This has divorce written all labral. Yeah and so. We're both like having these big moments moments. Yeah our relationship was never built on really being together. All the time like even. When we were living together I was waiting tables three nights a week. Doing shows one night a week teaching one night a week there was maybe like Tuesday night. Maybe then like the four hours that we overlapped in the bed because I would get home at two. Am from waiting tables and he would have to leave for school at six thirty new. You know so we never said to each other like you gotta change what you're doing for me and anytime that that happened or that leaned into. I think we both were like. Hey this who I am. This is what makes me happy. This is what I have to do. Right don't make me feel guilty for needing to do this. Yeah now I couldn't do that. I'm too needy. It was really really hard for both of us. We're not good on the phone and we would skype and we would just be like we just so much to catch up onto like so much had happened in my day and to catch him up and it seems so miniscule my problems and like which agent should I pick and he's like dealing with these kids every day you know like real shit and yeah but I would go home. I would be home for like a couple of months at a time. Sometimes you know but it looked like everything was leaning towards. This is where my work is going to need to be. But if he had said to me I can't move to La. Like I have to be here. I would have been like okay. We'll make it work okay. I'll get a job here. I'll just say not. La Staff this interview guide to. Who's negotiating expert yeah? Fbi hostage negotiator. Like just giving someone immediately the opportunity to say no. Yeah can somehow make every like like every Christmas we're going to Atlanta performance. I'm not but if she comes home is like they offered me to go to Atlanta four months. We don't have to do that. Yeah then I'm like okay. Well then I start trying to find my way into how we could make sense. Yeah there's some there's some kind of magic power so maybe just the fact that he knew you wouldn't have picked it over him. Yeah he said like maybe we should go like maybe we should move. This seems like it's going to keep happening and I want to be near you and I was like I want to be near you like we love each other. Yeah and then after. He made that decision and he had given his notice. I could not stop sobbing because I was like. I'm forcing him to do this. And I call my mom and my mom was like. Have you ever known him to do something? He doesn't WANNA do laying good mom. He has his own choice here. He wants to go. He's trying this thing. Maybe he wants to leave Brooklyn who knows why but he wants to go to stop carrying that. Because that's not yours barry and I was like okay. Okay and then I. I thought his family was to be really upset. And his mom kind of sets the tone for all of that. His mom has passed away sense but she was amazing. The matriarch. Yeah when we told her that we were leaving was like good. You should be together. You're married And I was like Oh good moms and so we came out here and I was so nervous. He's GonNa hate it. Why would be nervous? A two things one one. He's going to hate it at. B. Oh my God now. I have to succeed at this right right. I moved as all the way out here and now if I don't get yeah well interesting work enough literally. He'd given his notice two weeks and they passed on. Hbo PILOT AND MY TV show got cancelled hoops. And now it's like fucking kidding me. And so Jason. I were like okay. What's the next thing? What's the next thing? And then we just were moving forward with it. And then he worked for big picture at the time. The the high school that he started in Brooklyn was a big picture learning model high school and so when they found out he was moving to La. They were like we have a high high school in. La. Oh you come and visit. And so he went and visited it was. It's this all girls charter school. That was at the time about forty percent. Pregnant or parenting. Uh-huh it's in Filipino town. It's like a phenomenal high school. And so he flew out and fell in love with that so that helped a lot and then we came out to look for apartments and jess and I took our new idea around production companies and that was what became best friends forever. Yeah and so a pretty crazy thing for you guys. Get Your own show at that point. Yeah no yeah on. Nbc order it. Yes that's pretty mongers. Yeah it was for ourselves to star in and that was after a couple of pilots seasons of us both going out for like me. The weird went in her the like bitchy girlfriend. And we really doesn't feel right like women are just these two things were all of those thing. Yeah I'm all of those things so we turned it in and they really liked it but it was like the last thing to get picked up all the pilots and they were like we only have five hundred thousand dollars left. So will you make like seven minutes? Sizzle reel and we were like. We'll make a pilot or a- and they were like we can't do that. It's only five hundred thousand dollars and we were like we've been doing comedy for free in a basement we can do it. Yeah so we did. We made the pilot and they loved it and then they picked up to series but also like it was kind of a low budget. Share your stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by square. You Know Square. They make that little card reader that helps a lot of businesses take payments. We are one of those businesses. If you come to a live show. You'll find that we use square. But here's what a lot of people don't know they make so much more than just the white card reader. 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Yeah in nearly killed us the first season I was just GonNa say that's a huge learning curve. I didn't have kids yet. Thank God yeah. I had a husband that I just moved across the country and was ignoring to write a television show about best friendship. Yeah it was hard. Our studio was actually next door to his school. It was Occidental Studios. Oh literally next door to his high school. That's helpful. Yeah so there were times I would like walk out and go lay. I need to see you know. Let me get is on you? It was hard like I don't know what I'm good at just wrote a pilot for the first time like I've were that I only had written like essays. One woman show. Yeah add some sketches. So like I don't know what makes a compelling story. Yeah Jessica's husband. Dan is a playwright and studied playwright. So key would be like guys. This isn't a scene. This is doesn't conflict in like but it's funny. He's like yeah. But nobody's going to care if it doesn't drive forward character moment right and so He was super duper helpful to us an patient. We were there insane hours. We were there every weekend. Both of US ended up in the ER at one point for food poisoning or in my case all over body highs which I think was just like adrenal fatigue. I don't I mean at the time I had gotten a massage and I blamed it on expired. Victoria Secret Body Lotion. I think it was just because we were two times in the Er for that. Last set. Dr King. I started to get them all over my back in my arms and he gave me three days apprentice zone. Which took me through? We got to Brooklyn to shoot for a week and the prednisone were off and they came back worse. We all over my entire body. Fever chills spent the afternoon the urgent care slash Er I had an upper east side hospital. Because that's where Jessica's brother who's an ice surgeon told us to go work the next day and then the next day they came back even worse all over my face and me and my mouth and that's when we went back to the Er and I was like in the Er overnight. Yeah on on Ivy's Acceder as how far in the weeds but how how to mouth hives feel horrendous. It's like it just feels swell. It feels like everything is swelling up. And that's that's the fear is that your throw is going to swell shut and you're not gonna be able to breathe. This is clearly stress right. I think so. Yeah I have found like I hate to acknowledge but when I have bouts of arthritis. I'm always so focused on my diet. Which certainly does but really. I think it's more related distress. Yeah was it New York Presbyterian. I don't honestly know it could have been upper east side at seven something. Oh right for your seizure you went. You liked it right. I loved it slice of Pizza. Is this hope works. I don't go to little so I was really yard. It was in your situation. Yeah I was like on a cot in the middle like by the nursing state. Yes that's all the people that like. Were dying were like in the cordoned off like yeah rooms and I was just like in a hallway with Benadryl surging through my and you were in the hallway to his. They didn't think you were going to die. They decided I wasn't going to die. But you don't feel that way because you feel like I'm for sure GONNA die. I just died and brought back to and your again by yourself. No Christian was with me. Thank God I remember reading a bill. Murray interview twelve years ago and you know he generally doesn't love being famous his quotas always like if you're thinking about becoming rich and famous. I just recommend the rich part but he said the one really nice thing about being famous as you do get treated really nice at the hospital when you go with your kids. They kind of tend to really get attention. Now he's remembered that and I've found that to be true a couple of different times. Yeah when the neurologist did like this show me so much I appreciate that and then you feel like oh they're really gonNA care they care about my well. Being young likes the show. She wants it to go on and then another one came and said I heard him supposed to listen to your podcast. Yes leave the room. Go listen to a few and then come back and tell me what's going on okay so now when when it got cancelled then were you relieved because it had been so stressful. So much worker where you heartbroken. I was devastated. You were devastated devastated. 'cause I think I believed so much in it and it was the first time I was getting fan response. When our fans like our stuff down into their deepest sells Recognize themselves in it. They've never seen this onscreen portrayed in such a way so like we were getting these like love letters and I was like well. If this is the case in you know it must be widespread or whatever we were placed after off their rockers. Which was the elderly prank show hosted by Betty White? That was when we aired course show did not do well after that a nuanced best friend. Common Hugh right right not to well. I was really proud of the show. We did end up putting out. I think what like the best version of that at the time that it could have been and what you set out to do. Yeah yeah I thought honestly that crossed my mind was I got. I have something else in my life. Besides this Oh yes. My happiness cannot depend on someone else making a choice for me. Yes and I was like I'm GONNA get pregnant. Oh so that was a response to that. Yeah and it works though right. It totally works it. Does I mean it still there? Those things that your anxieties. They are all there but they kind of get checked like the first audition. I went on after having Seraya felt so good as the priority was like I'm GonNa go in. I would have liked spiraled after that would've liked second-guessed all of the choices that I made in that audition before I had her right but this was for Fargo. I remember I went in somewhere off sunset casting office weird place and then I I went in the first season of Argo. Yeah first season. I did the audition. It went well. I laughed. I got on my car. Check my phone to see if I gotten any alerts about. My daughter drove straight home. I wanted to see her. Couldn't wait to see her. Yeah I didn't think about Fargo again. Yeah so I went to Home Depot. Yeah when Lincoln was about eight weeks old and I had been sitting in a bed staring at her for eight weeks and when I went to Home Depot was like I felt like I was at Mardi Gras like I was fucking out of this House it was a party cruising shit. I remember being elated. They're just left this responsibility so also like even going to an audition when you have an eight year olds a little bit of a like a little break here. Yeah so you just kind of in a better mood then it just about. You got to go and do that. Yeah Twenty minutes of your day which is its own reward as opposed to before the only point of it is to get the job and everything but right right right. Yeah no I think there was some of that and also like I was nervous that I wasn't going to be funny anymore or that. I wasn't going to care about it or that. I was only going to want to be a mom now. Yeah and that towed. I mean things got crystal clear like I remember when I had a two or three day old before I gave birth. I had auditioned for eastbound. Down which is one of my all time favorite shows you're made to be with Danny McBride in some capacity. I'm GonNa find him and an attack him. I did I'M GONNA Digress for a second but Owen Burke who works for the Will Ferrell Adamski Company News Center. He was a UC be old school. Ucb Guy and I had been here for a couple of weeks. I think just going back and forth and he called me and he was like hey. Can you come to the stable read? Here's the address tomorrow morning. At nine thirty I roll in. Thinking is like a play table. Read like we're just GonNa hear it out loud for the actors right not even like full hair and makeup just like an old ratty dirty t shirt. I walk into the room. And it's the table read for eastbound and down episodes two and three. Oh my goodness will ferrell. Was there the president of HBO? Chris Rock at one point walked in. I had not even seen the scripts ahead of time. Oh he was like I just need you to read it. Like some of the auxiliary roles well the auxiliary role that he needed meter to play with the super white trash girlfriend. The one that's like topless on a jet ski and I have the very first scene of the episode and it's me screaming Kenny powers. Dare you fuck me trash you ass hall and then I like I start looking at. It's just like a four page scene with just me and Danny McBride and now like what am I gonNa do like to do it. Yeah anyway it was. It went well and I was like at home and felt like amazing so they offered me a part like three day old and I was going to have to go for five weeks and I and I was like no like immediately just like without hesitation. I can't do that and that was the first time ever. I had an easy no and onto something that I was like Sestri. Didn't like actively seeking out. I was like I just know. This is more important right now. This is where I have to be. But by the way isn't it interesting like it takes carrying about some little things so much that you treat yourself in a way that maybe you could have yourself your? Yeah it gives you this weird confidence to do that. There's something more important than me. Yeah Yeah I am charged with making sure that this person is okay in the world. Yeah and I can't do that if I'm like laugh at my rocks off Wilmington North Carolina. Where in Jessica also had a kid of similar as she got so mad at me when I was when I got pregnant. She was pissed off because I think she felt tied to me. This was going to make me essentially unavailable to her. She also had the fear that I was going to. Just drop off the face of the earth and only WanNa be because I was like super into being pregnant house. Likely wiping it up obsessed like totally like. Oh my God you guys you know that your body temperature changes like if the baby gets cold. Your body temperature will raise to help the baby's temperature like I was just into all the miracle. Oh my God amazing okay. So then you do twenty six episodes of Plane House. Yeah and do you get into a rhythm and learn how to work and learn how to manage all that stuff? Yeah I think we got better and better every year. We got better at like hiring people to support us. Like better at delegating like trusting people to do their job and you know like you just have this feeling like you want them to know exactly. What's in your brain you know but then if you don't leave them room to do what they're great at there's something missing and you're like why do I have this amazing person who's great at their job so that takes a while to learn. Yeah I agree yeah. It is hard to trust people. Yeah no we don't want to talk about the fact that I'm jealous of you and a couple of ways who because you're in all the fun comedy clubs like you're on curb? Dad just happened though. I don't care I'm not uncurbed and then veep you're in vive. Which is the greatest cast ever assembled in? Yeah the first time. I'll addition for that Jessica. The Part Okay to playing Tony Hails. Girlfriend loves and then auditioned again and that was like the first time I ever had an audition where I was like. If I don't get this I'll be okay because this audition was better than anything. It was a it. Was Julia. Louis DREYFUSS was there she was there. I knew the script right but then they were like can we just around and I was like. Yeah but it was in character as this woman who's like super wishy washy and so it was like hard to improvise. Yeah that because like a lot of times. Improv is funny for me and the specifics and like her game is that she never gives. You won't commit to anything. I left there like on such a high and I was like if I don't get this job. I had that moment. Yes yes where I was like playing with the big dogs able to hold on and it felt like so electric but ego wise. How is it to be the creator and runner of your show and then come in and play k? Is that hard ego is initially or you. Don't care it's not hard for EGO IS I. Don't think I think we've just wrapped like season two or something and I did horrible bosses too. I play like the sex therapist. That's leading the link sex obsessed group therapy and they were setting up the chairs or something and I was there and the eighty s Question and I was like. Oh there's there should be nine shares in here there's nine people missing and he looked at me. Like what the fucker you like what you know what I mean I I thought Oh right right right. This is my show like it's hard to turn that off. Yes but it had been long enough when I started. Bless this mess. I'm telling everybody what to do. You know so wasn't super hard but like when I directed why yes the first one. I was a little nervous about like after the table. Read and they're all sitting around doing notes. Unlike most of the directors I think they leave and then certainly like. I'm not sure if they're asking those people about the story guest director and they weren't asking me either but I started talking like I gotTa 'cause we were talking about your mic storyline in like tracking it and how it so internal and I was like I really love to see that physical is so I can tell that story to the audience. Because you're not going to be in his head and as I was talking I was like. Is this my place like out out of like the director role here afterwards? After I spun out for a little bit I I was like no like. That's my superpower. I think I did this like in this of EP story. Creator and actor like and director so. I think that you would want that. And if they don't want it they can always say like you know. Thanks you know for sure but you like it. You like directing our show. I love it you love it. I love it. I love our crew. Like they're my family. Yeah and I love all you guys and everybody's so good and they come prepared. Will you and Cagney stuff is by far my favorite stuff. It's always the thing that will make me laugh out loud. Is You encounter. So are you going to do a bunch next season direct? Yeah if they ask me to as many as they let me you will yeah. I also like my weeks off when I'm just an actor there we go. Yeah Yeah Yeah. Yeah right now just and I were thinking about. What is the next project we're going to do? And we just come off playing house I was so tired. Yeah I mean when we started season three I had a two month old and it was the whole season was about Jess's real struggle with cancer which we adjust on through and real life and when we wrote it I was eight months pregnant so like I was tired. Now when you think of your identity markers the things that you're proud of is UC BEAN UCB person right at the top. Yeah you see be for life. Uc River life. Yeah I think I was saying this to you the other week if any of those guys that I was like in a van across country like doing shows in midland our Ohio. Were to call me and say I wrote something for you. I would not read it. I would not look at the contract. I would just like wear and win. Yes like we just. We went through it like some of those people. Make me laugh harder than anybody in the whole world was and so when we write to. We're writing those people like Zach Woods right for him like he was on my very first Improv team. I feel like he is my brother. He's so fucking funny Genius said and everything he was going to be a jazz trumpeter. I Know Yeah. That was like his thing and then he found UCB and he was like. Oh no I'll do this instead. And he was eighteen when I got on dillinger like he had been coming after high school to take classes getting on the transit from Trenton New Jersey or wherever he was known as a real wonder can. Yeah yeah so like writing for those people and for playing house. It was just like wriggle mcbrayer. Just all of them man Zukas who you share drumming with. Yes we did a whole scene where we like had a conversation in snare drum lying. And we're you falling in love in the scene. He was like my high school crush which is also based on a real person in my high school that was on the drumline that I was like obsessed with his own trench coated man. He was a Mormon and so my dream was because every Friday night there used group would get together and do like swing dancing and I was like I go. I could show him. I know how to swing. They have and then the perfect girl for that never happened. He went on to do whatever I guess. Get a family as you said you went to Christian youth and all that stuff and then you went to New York and did you see any mismatch of kind of hard partying a Loosey Goosey lifestyle. Did you ever feel like oh? I don't know if I can join this club. It's a little too fast. Are you ready to put it in fourth gear and stand on it as well? I wasn't like my group was really like we were nerds about Improv and like our parties were like rafting down rivers together. I waited tables like one night that I went out hard hard was it was just drinking though and I went out after work with the crew the bartender and we went to China Club. Do you remember that is like a club was terrible when we were in the VIP section? Like I think it was just like a lot of cranberry vodka. I was always terrified to that. I was GONNA lose control. All I wanted was a little bit of lubricant. Get this body moves on the dance. I was always worried. I was GonNa do something that I would regret but we did that night. We went out. We closed it. There was four of us for women and our manager to sounds like an ideal sting song and so we we went to the China Club and then we went back to our bar. He he opened up and then we just drank. They're all fun. Ended up doing body shots off of each other owners is i. I don't think I did the body shop but there were body shots happening in front of me because I was in a committed relationship with my now husband so I got in a cab. Don't really remember it. Sure when I got home the sun was coming up and I was like that like stumbling up to steer Zigzag style like like rolling into the wall in the staircase and then open the door and he was up getting ready for work. It did not go. Well did not go well because I got to get up to have for just having the confidence date you and marry you. Because you're I'm being serious. There couldn't be anything more threatening than someone engulfed in comedy world. Why because how are you going to compete with that like? It's such an insular inside jokes doing bits making each other laugh. He's he care about that of that. I know but that takes a lot of confidence. Time we hang out it's Har- it's like we just it's like we keep that separate kind of all hang together. It's run what I mean. Yeah to spare him. Yeah partially yeah and me and also everybody I mean we do go out now in groups your so but like at that point it would have been annoying. I think three my girlfriend. Yeah before fucking Improv. In the kitchen post show talking about every line they said. Oh what could be more nauseating? God bless her. God bless Hav year but I think yeah. I think the person I loved was in love with some other thing that I had no inroad into. Yeah that thinks confidence but he is also quite funny years. Yes okay. He's not just like a serious kind foxy educator. He is also super weird and funny and I think I help him unlock that and so to our kids a lot of times his family and friends will see that and be like who is this guy and I'm like this is who he always wise. I mean yeah. Yeah and it's funny because my kids say he's the funding one. Oh the Mike Okay. Use getting paid to do. I love you. I think you've been the most exciting new person I've met in like three years. Getting to know you on that show. I love it have so much when I first your. I don't believe I don't believe I would have never been friends with you in high school like you know like your will hold on though we probably would have been A. I'll tell you why no I'll tell you. What if you were weird? I was captain weird so if we are in a science class together. This is what I had a lot of friends that were in the marching band world. I didn't go out on Saturday nights with them but I had a lot of friends in class. That because if you are weird and funny than I was with you this is what happened in the ninth grade. There was a you at my lab table and he came over to study. Should I tell you the only? That's correct. Okay. He's a very handsome and And we were agreeing in like SORTA studying or whatever and I think like something was about to happen and we sort of like toppled over onto the love seat and then I was just like Oh my God made it so weird like what was that. What are we doing here so sexy and like Oh and then never like just yeah. Yeah not ever watching. Bless this mess and he's also upset one of the many this affinity for you because you remind me so much of my two girl. Cousins manding Kelly who are sisters who is every summer with yeah and they were fucking weird as hell like I was and we were all weird as hell and I think when I met you I was like. Oh my God this. She's one of the McGoldrick sisters. She's like very genuinely funny. And weird voice so you and I really. We have quite a good time on. That said don't we we do. I agree with you and I really had foam and Jessica visited this dynamic here but we had this fucking dinner table scene kitchen dinner table scene. That just went on and on and on some of the takes for twenty minutes long and I felt like I was back at the groundlings play together so it was electric. It was it was so fun and it really bring me back to like. Oh the joy of being funny together with people. Yeah without any other thoughts wonderful. Yeah that's a good feeling. I love you and I'm very excited. I'm on the show with you and looks most certain that we will come back into more together. And you'll direct a bunch. It'll be great. Okay all right I love you got and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my Soul Mate Monica Pad man. Okay I'm recording and you can hear me I can hear you. Oh my God. This is so exciting. I inner galactic fact check. Wow It's really twenty twenty that were a and this is going to be virtually how we do everything going forward for the next couple of months. Probably the next couple of years. Yeah do you think we'll all just be in pods? I will say that the response is bigger than I was expecting. I didn't think this country would like cancel. The march madness. I know seems bigler taken it seriously. Which seems good. I saw a graph today that was sort of showing that we are at like the exact inflection point for whether we can sort of flatten out this corona virus or it's going to spike so now is the time to be act in. We're doing our part Erin. I we've gone to a public. Aa Meeting and then we went to a public gym and then we went to Salt Lake. But we're we're careful. Listen listen listen first of all shut up for it. Secondly we are spraying our every five seconds. It's preposterous were laughing so hard. We're washing our hands everywhere. We're not touching anything and we're spraying our hands. You're not touching anything at the Public Jim. What we're touching all the equipment they weren't were were scrubbing our hands with. Burell before we touch our mouths and eyes noses all right. Mrs. Do you think you can get? It ain't are you guys doing some anal play or or a little anal work for our sobriety. Can I tell you something because this is just reminding well first of all? I don't know if we were clear and we can be now. We're doing a remote Fact check I am in the attic indexes in Austin my favorite city in the world city. And we're trying this out. This is the first time we've ever done it. And I miss seeing you across from me but but this is also very fond. I agree I feel like we're in the future but when you were just talking about anal play. It reminded me of something that I wanted to talk about So I did something bad today. Not involving anal play got so excited. I went on to our podcast. Page not on our website on the apple podcast page because I was trying to screen shot some things to post and when I did that I saw there were comments. Oh no no it was. It was a bad. Don't don't ever look at comments that aren't on instagram. But only safe place which big shoutout to Adam from last week for that because I guess I didn't realize that because I'm not on twitter so I only see instagram comments. Oh that's very misleading. Most comments are cancer. Which is what I received yet. So okay there were you specifically of Monica and just love. No no it. Was this general armchair. Did you sort by like no you could. I didn't need to sort There were there were so many mean comments very specifically about me what. I mean a lot a lot. Yeah WELL PEOPLE HATE SMART. Independent outspoken women. That's just a global misogyny. Thank you for saying that what we are. Kristen and I and Jess are watching the Hillary doc and whether you agree with her politics or not that is a really fascinating documentary to watch to just see the level of patriarchy massage. That she's been up against her whole life. It's so good and heartbreaking and fantastic. I would recommend it. But why love the woman that brought her out on stage at one point and she basically just broke down? Which is if you speak up your bitchy and opinionated. You don't speak enough. You're a pushover. Like she just goes through every single thing you could be in. There's no real right way for women to do it. Yes so I I was trying to screen shot nice sought so the first comment was something about our fact. Check from men's bodies and it was saying like it was criticizing me for one like shaming doctors and two wait. When did you shame doctors? Because I was talking about my experience with Dr which was bore. And I'm allowed to say that anyway by the way. Here's my frustration with some negative comments if I can just air my grievance which is guess what I pointed that out so You know like people were mad in that episode that I I was saying the pressures on men are real now people interpret as saying they are worse which I never said. I don't think they're even nearly as bad as they are on women but I was trying to make the point that I think women Dr Women's insecurities and men Dr Men's insecurities and you cannot agree with that. But Luckily you disagreed with me. So did rob so did Kumail. So it's not like that voice has been stifled on our podcast. It's yes so when people go instagram to make the same argument that someone already made in the room I think. Did you not hear that side of it? Yeah that's the whole point of this as US having a discussion and a dialog and tossing ideas out into the world. And you know they're not going to be perfect every time that's that's life. I also a couple of people came to our defense or I guess my defense not your defense and I appreciate it with someone said like we keep asking men to be more vulnerable and be more outspoken about their fears and insecurities and then the second it happens it becomes some kind of gender war right. I know again feels like a lose lose so I guess we just have to not pay attention and just keep moving forward in the way that we know and ninety nine percent of the comments at least on. Instagram are positive. Yeah but yeah so he said he was shaming doctors and that there was like poop talk or something for me and I was like wait. A minute wait a minute wait. The miss the level of Misogyny and that one sentence is like I am getting shamed for Poop. Talk when I mean this is why I love you. But that's ninety percent of what you talk about. It's objectively fact. It's my main topic of thought. Well Sex poop sure. Yeah and the and the owners Minora Majora Doodoo all your faves. Yeah but the fact that I'm getting called out for that felt so absurd to me and I read that. That was the top comment I was like. Oh man that is rough and then I kept going and that was so bad so many people just they don't like the sound of my voice. They hate my many people though. Thank you some. People think that they're like standing up for you like I'm always arguing with you. Yes that's the point while I liked those people. Okay let's Okay so those were the good comments and then we'll get back to the bad ones anyway. It just really hurt my feelings I know it's hard to acknowledges but you haven't gone through the experience of being famous in this you're going through it and it is a learning curve and no one can. You can't practice for it. You can't be above it. People say mean things about you and it hurts your feelings into think I could tell you right now logically. Does anyone in your real life. Who knows you think about you know not one person? I'm friends with all your friends. That's not a real opinion that exist with people who know you've but I can easily see that but I think it it does take time to get there. I don't think any human could just jump to the point where you're unaffected by that right. Yeah I mean another another way to look at it as they're writing about you and you're not writing about them so that's everything I mean. I hate even really even I like it. I think it's vulnerable to admit you're human and that stuff bothers you and you read it. A lot of people lie about it. Oh Yeah I mean I could stop. Oh yeah once you get that tasty. Please God it's such a specific feeling of sinking and just continuing to sink and sink in sink. It's so true. I know everyone who's come in here and has said it. And exactly what you're just saying is you don't know until you feel it but there of course we're beautiful comments and like. Oh yeah wonderful comments also specifically about me and those can't compete and they just don't in a lot yeah people coming to my defense which is so lovely and wonderful but yeah. I can read that with this like filter up of just like okay okay. They're saying this or saying this but as soon as somebody says something negative it's just feels like. Oh this I don't I don't well. No I can give the perfect example. Is that gorgeous? Six-foot-five Army Guy. Who came to two shows to express his love for you? You are unable to accept that that could be real that person's in love with you yet. You can accept that someone hates you and it's just I think a human I'll tell you the one I is funny is This was like seven eight years ago on twitter. Someone wrote this dude is sucking off of Kristen Bell and he's she's supports him in my mind. I was like okay. Well that's objectively not true. I make plenty of money and we split everything but then like four hours later. I was driving down the one. Oh One and I found myself mounting my argument to that guy again and I'm like this is objectively not true and yet I really feel like I need to defend it now. Four hours later. It really eats at you. Does it get easier or yeah? Yeah Yeah it really does. It really does well. First and foremost I do think you get really better at like. I would never look at comments on Youtube. I don't look at comments on twitter facebook but I would know better instagram's the only place. I'll read feedback and by the way. Some of the feedback is critical. But it's not mean and I can accept it but like you hate my laugh. Well Okay let me change my life for you. I don't WanNa change myself but I am. Of course I am editing. Five minutes after that and I'm like trying to don't you dare because I guarantee ninety nine point nine percent of the people love your laugh. And that's the problem you start reacting to people that don't represent anything close to consensus. Yeah also you have to remember you like you eat a good meal. You don't call the manager over to tell them ever right. You eat a bad meal that was cold and you call them over. It's just people aren't. You're not even hearing from the masses of people who enjoy you. 'cause they don't feel compelled but if you've angered them there's a lotta motivation be vocal and a lot of people are going to hate US anyway. Well that was that okay great good piece of housekeeping housekeeping should probably recommend Sam Harris's episode on Corona viruses. Really really good. It was so good newest episode. I think or maybe two two ago with nickless Kristaq s about corona virus. It's really interesting and insightful. And they break down sort of point by point a lot of the points. They were refuting. Where my point? But that's not just your points there obviously a lot of people's points and they wouldn't even be talking about it you know and what. I thought was generous of them. Is that at no point where they like. No that's wrong and stupid. It's just like no that is correct but we do have more control over the rate at which it happens than you might think so. Yes everyone's probably going to get it but if we can control the speed well well well well. He did say very specifically. Don't say well everyone's going to get it 'cause not everyone's GonNa get it so if you go into the world being like we're all going to get it. I'm GonNa get it eventually. I might as well get it now. Like that's a very silly thing to think. So he did say that specifically have to point out. Even though I just confirmed at that person was right that all I do is argue with you. Give me a big laugh now. Look like a witch would've ended. Tell you I probably would have had to tell you like. Hey Buddy you're so good at everything. You're laugh well let me ask you this. Do you know what a witches laugh sounds want? Somebody said that the laugh was fake which I was like. If it was fake then I would have picked like I guess a better sounding one if I Deciding with the laugh was which I don't even understand what that means but I think I would be interested again. 'cause it wasn't me that was attacked in a certain situation. I immediately go to what would be going on with somebody bad that would trigger them and and I'm genuinely curious. I think it's a fun. Like riddle like okay. What kind of insecurity would you have? Where People's let's say you have a fake laugh. Why would fake laugh bother you? Is it that you think people are fake laughing at you? Do you think you're not as funny as you WanNa be. Do you feel like you're not good at being encouraging people in conversations. And you just wish you could have a social lubricant of Gentle Gracious. Laugh like what what would be going on. That would be a big in the gym today. Oh my God. Let me just unpack a little bit? This Gal I was listening to at the gym. She was with her boyfriend and they were taking turns filming each other exercise and I was like Oh. I wonder if they have like an instagram workout account. Whatever and then she just went on this tirade about. Oh you know what I hate. These fucking people who are at the gym and they're lifting way too much weight and their their their. Their posture is terrible. Their form is horrendous. And it's like just do it right or don't do it. Needs other guys are at the gym for three hours. And they're doing his set like every twenty minutes and my head I'm like how could all of this anger you like? Who gives a flying fuck about how other people work out and I was like? Oh she must work out with low weight so that our form perfect and she's so pissed that it looks like other people are stronger but they're not stronger because their form sucks. I'm like is that it. What is going out with this person? Because you can't be that mad that other people you don't know or doing something that has no impact on you or society. I do. I mean I just think it's part of this general human fault that we all have. Which is that we feel like negativity breeds community or something which doesn't but in some cases. Sally I guess that's part of it when I saw on the comments. I think that's part of what irks me about. It is like these people in some ways are winning but I also have to remind myself. They're also not winning in life. If that is how they operate like I I definitely don't WanNA trade with them so I have to remember that. Well let me now own something to because this could be another explanation for her so. I realized that I would do this at work right. I would say like Oh. Are they here yet? Talking about another actor basically pointed out that they're laid all the time and I thought well. Why did I do that and I was like? Oh I did it to point out that I'm on time. I mean if you want to really get down to it so I think maybe that Gal was in a way pointing out that she has perfect form that she goes straight from exercise to exercise with no rest like it was just a reverse way to brag. Maybe yeah I think everyone wants to feel like an expert in some way you know like they have the keys. They have control. It's just maybe a way to get that yes now let me counteract and again this is should have been the first thing I said so before the gym we were in meeting and gale came up to me and said Oh my God. I'm at this meeting because of your podcast. Six months ago from listening to the PODCAST. I decided to come day and I was so happy. That's incredible but that is the whole point of this so the other stuff should be able to just get one roll off our back like little little ducks swimming in poop. Who are we fact checking today? Lenihan Lennon Parham me love. What a catch she is in her episodes. She talks about many guys who she encountered in her young life who she felt rejected by and honestly God those guys just missed out on this beautiful wonderful soul while they did but what I heard is a little bit what I hear in your story. Which is I? Don't know that these guys didn't want to plow her well. She said she asked three people to Prom and they all said well. Yeah that's rough remember. She also had this story about having the guy over to study and I think she just like it was her lack of confidence. I'm sure that guy would have loved to have pounded her. Yeah we're all. We're all kind of self sabotaging a little bit but it all makes us who we are all of it. You would probably suck at this job if you had been banging a ton. I probably have a much better laugh though that you never talk about poop never never okay. Oh we were talking about Matthew. Makaay his balls. Oh we were talking about how many kids he has an I said I think three and he does have three. Oh great so Lennon Lennon loved the show. Putting on the hits which was an American syndicated music variety competition show hosted and written by Alan Fawcett. The show featured amateur acts lip synching to popular songs. The show aired on weekends from nineteen. Eighty four to nineteen eighty-eight. I watched a couple of clips on YouTube. It's worth doing a little google on that. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah. It's pretty seem like something. No one should be competing like doesn't it seem like everybody can lip sync. That's my knee jerk reaction. I wouldn't be so arrogant. It'd be like having a contest of people dribbling a basketball standing still. Okay Okay but some people do better than others at that but if you put them in a box where all. They can do nothing between the legs. You can't move your legs. It's just dribbling. I still think there's GonNa be some variety okay. Maybe we should pitch this the big dribble so she said you know she really wanted to be on eastbound and down but then she having maybe she couldn't but she said she thought it filmed in Wilmington. But what I saw on the Internet was that it was filmed in Myrtle beach South Carolina. Okay but maybe it was back and forth. We can't really trust the Internet completely. No no that. That is what it says I went. I went a day or two to spring break in Myrtle beach in. Did you enjoy it now? I don't think I felt cut out for that scene. I did have one perfect spring break which was in Cancun when I was in eleventh grade. I mean that that's one of the best weeks in my life but some of the other spring break experiences. I just didn't feel jacked enough and I didn't drink I. I did drink in Cancun but then I didn't drink in twelfth grade. 'cause I was already exhibiting some issues. Oh yeah speaking speaking of that so you know. I'm on this new medication and my doctor said it was okay to drink. I think I probably should have been more clear when I asked him he meant. It's not gonNA interfere with the medication which is not but I also had a conversation with a another neurologist. I brought up drinking again. And he said he would advise me to pretty much. Cut It out completely. Why the dehydration or something? It can be a factor in seizures one. He said it's excites the brain to it interrupts and the CROTCH. Well yeah it excites the whole bod really. I feel a full body tingle. And he said that it also which this is for sure disrupt sleep and sleep is a huge element of this and yours in particular the fact that you had both seizures while asleep sure exactly But apparently that's like a big trigger. Is the sleeping stuff? So how drunk were you the night the seizure in New York? That's what I was trying to think. I mean definitely not drunk at all but we word drinking throughout the day there. We go but not a lot like I had a Mimosa in the morning at breakfast esque go on first thing. Brush your teeth. I I had a massage. And then what if you're allergic to? Messiah kind of already. Of course have that thought like I wish I could go back in time to the first one. What if I had a massage the day before what would you? You'd rather quit massage than drinking right. Yeah both be really hard. I love massages. Bama Moses and God. I Love Mama's this is horrible. Anyway I started off. I had a most then. I had wine at lunch and then I had wine. Gan midday gray well between legend her and then I had a cocktail. But I didn't finish it at dinner while ny a wine and then a cocktail at dinner. Only a cocktail. And I didn't even finish it so I had five drinks four five ish drinks throughout the whole day. But were you not drinking water? Were you meeting? All of your thirst needs with alcohol. I mean if I know myself I'd say probably I doubt I was drinking enough water and we were moving around the city a bunch I was also probably exerting energy so I probably was dehydrate. That makes sense. Yeah yeah it was a new psy and yeah but he he said I could maybe have like the re ounces of wine and then maybe another glass of three ounces of wine but that's Kinda in bad news no amount of alcohol no. That's that's a sip so I'm kinda trying to grapple with that. A lot of things are feeling pretty out of control. I will say now. If it were me I would just be like well. I'm just still going to drink. Is that how you feeling or you really considering not drinking now? I'm really considering it. No it's not the end of the world of five to cut it out. It's okay you did. I'd hate to see you quit. Well paid to see someone with a great relationship with it. Not Do it well. I obviously don't have a great relationship because this news was a little bit earth shattering. Sure sure yeah anyway. That's all for Lennon. Sorry if I was a bit of a Downer in this I like it I like it. I like your honesty. Yeah the problem is people pretending that everything's perfect and then other people are hearing that and they're like I I don't feel that way. Am I broken? I would that would suck. I don't know I don't think being honest as ever backfired really long-term sharing. Yeah that's true. Yeah it's a good way to live. I immediately went to a pullout joke in my head but I couldn't frame it and time all right well on that. No this was so fun by.

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211- Gillian Zoe Segal on Interviewing Warren Buffett

Invested: The Rule #1 Podcast

37:43 min | 2 years ago

211- Gillian Zoe Segal on Interviewing Warren Buffett

"Hi, everybody. And welcome to invest it. I'm Danielle town. We're heading on a pilgrimage to Omaha this week, the Berkshire Hathaway shareholder meeting is this Saturday may fourth. It's the first Saturday in may. So the first Saturday in may equals, Mr. Warren Buffett. So this week on the podcast. We have an interview with someone who knows Mr. buffet. Personally, it seemed appropriate to lead into Berkshire Hathaway week with Mr. buffet Jillian Zoe Segal, not only interviewed Mr. buffet for her beautiful book in his private office in Omaha. She also photographed him there. And she's now friendly with him and with Charlie Munger. So she's got some stories, and I got to talk with her about them about her experiences interviewing Mr. buffet, and especially about how he and the other people she talked to dealt with failure and the ups and downs as they grappled with reaching success next week. We're going to have stories from our berkshire-hathaway weakened everything that happened behind the scenes, I'm excited. Enjoy. Hi, everybody hoping to invested. I'm Danielle town. I'm so lucky today to hear Jillian Zoe Segal who wrote the book getting there which came out a couple of years ago and is still making waves. I keep mentioning it to people and they go. Oh, yeah. I have that book on my shelf. It's that orange one. Right. And I say yes, indeed. So Jillian is the author of two bucks. The first one's called New York characters and the second one is called getting there. She is a non practicing lawyer like me. So, of course, we're friends, and and is also an amazing photographer, and she took all the photos in the book getting there as well. Getting there is a compilation of essays written by a number of luminaries and one of them is Warren Buffett, and so we're gonna talk about that and everybody else she spoke to welcome, Jillian. Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to chat with you. So I wanna get in first of all and just direct. Go straight to the point for our podcast, which is you talked to Warren Buffett. I know can you believe it or not actually so how did you? What's the story? How did you first? Even imagine speaking to Warren buffet for this book, and then how did you actually get to talk to him? So so in getting there, I interviewed thirty people who are at the top of their fields in a broad range of fields. So when I thought about the investing world, I thought who's at the top Warren Buffett, and of course, I wanted him to get in the book, but that was kind of a hard feet because in order for someone to be included in the book, I had to photograph them and interview them, and that's kind of a lot to ask because it takes time it takes time. Yes. And I had people don't have a lot of time. Exactly. And I don't have a big name. I didn't have a big name. It wasn't like Oprah Winfrey. Wants to. Yeah. Come interview you. It was like who. So so that was that was really hard and it took five years for me to get everybody in five years. It took five years of me, you know, knocking on people's doors. Wow. Metaphorically and Warren Buffett. I had the opportunity to go to a charity lunch that he was going to be at and I had in my mind. You know, I've got to find a way to approach him and ask him to be in my book because I had already sent the request into his office. I'm been rejected. They said, no, he's not interested in participating. So I thought all right. Maybe I'll ask again in person, and I went to this launch. And there was really no opportunity for me to be alone with him and ask him, and he was about to leave the launch. But before he left. Everybody got to take a group photo with him. And I just thought okay now or never so we stood and took a group Votto. And as we were all, you know, disbanding to to go back to our seats. And he was about to leave. I went right up to him right in his ear. And it was kind of one of those times where you almost like don't remember what you said after you said it because you were so nervous. But I basically said I'd love to include you in a in a book that I'm working on. And you know, and he said a how long is it? Gonna take. And I know that's what he said to you. Yeah. Like straight up. Yeah. Straight up, and I said ten minutes, it'll take just ten minutes a while. Okay. Meanwhile, it took no less than forty five minutes for anybody else. But I figured I'll take what I can get and ten minutes doesn't seem that much to ask. So he said, you know, send the request in to my office tomorrow, call my office, and and we can set something up. So I called his office the next day and his faithful secretary, Debbie famous secretary. Yes, she she blocked me. She said, you know, he might say something to somebody in person. But I have heard nothing about this. And I can't schedule anything and stopped me in my tracks. I think yeah, I thought oh, no what am I gonna do now? And it was probably true. I had him on the spot, you know, trying to get away from me, and he said call my office. So I used my entire legal education to write a good essay. That's what it's good for not an essay a good a good Email. And and you know, putting putting my request in writing. And I sent it and said could you run this by him? And it was like I just met with you yesterday. I'd love to anyway, he finally says, wait. So you you sent her another Email and said can you just run this by? Yes, I put it in writing. And and said, here's here's what happened because I was trying to explain to her. I just was with him yesterday. Yeah. At this lunch. Yeah. She said, you know, he might have just said something to get rid of you. Anyway, I I heard back that he said, okay. You could have ten or fifteen minutes. Wow. So I flew all the way to Omaha from New York for my ten minutes with him. And he also tried not to have may photograph him, his, sadly, he said, you know, people always say, it's not gonna take time. And it takes a lot of time. Could you just use some other picture? But the thing in my book is that I took all the pictures, and it'd be weird if I used another someone else's picture for him. So I said, I I wrote him back in an Email and said, I promise it will not I'm going to take your picture, but it will not eat into my allotted ten to fifteen minutes. And then I joked, even if it ends up being a picture of you running away from me, but he loved so I ended up like showing up there, and I pretty much had the camp my camera on my I as I walked towards him because I said, I know you're really pressed for time. So I'm gonna make this as quick as possible. And he said, oh, don't worry. I have loads of time no way. So we ended up spending an hour together. No way. And I got a great interview with him so young. Well, it's pretty long you could see in the book it is. It's it's extensive and the photograph is really good. I mean, it's just very raw that photo. Thank you. I took just a few pictures of him. And I think I got really lucky, but I did show up at his office an hour before he he showed up and planned it all out. So I closed certain blinds. I you know, it was like you just had to step into the picture. So there was a lot of planning. But then it was a very quick photo. Shoot and Debbie now tells me that I ruined it for every other photographer because when they say they need, you know, a half an hour to photograph him, she she says now Jillian took a great one in a couple minutes after an hour. It was it was a lot of lack though. But yes, a lot of setup sound like much luck Gillian to be honest. I mean, I think you're pretty amazing. At getting in past knows, and you've done that with multiple people. Well, it's a lot of persistence, and and yet have to may be have something wrong with you mentally just don't hear the nose. Don't behave that way, socially. So when you came into his office and had the camera up to your eye and took the photo. And by the way, you guys look at the photo in the book because it has it's one thing. I love about it is it shows his too hard box, which we've talked about so many times on this podcast. I'm flipping to it now because I love this photo. It's just like right there. And this is why I love this picture so much as it's just got everything in it. And it's so real with his messy desk and his too hard box right there their own a lot of photos of him like this. It's really. Yeah. 'cause I think I don't know I got lucky that I got to come into his office. Most of them aren't really there is there is actually one of my favorite things is is sent him. My first book New York characters and Annie liebowitz the famous tiger for photographed him for Vanity Fair his office. Oh, and he is sitting behind his desk and on his. Desk front and center is my book New York characters in her photo in her photo in Vanity Fair, which is like one of my favorite things. That's. Seeing that seeing my book there and seeing my book on someone's toilet seat, unto favorites pot in. Sightings I've had. So you came in and you took the photo. And then how did you structure these essays with him? You said you did an interview for about an hour. Yes. With everyone I interviewed them, and I would go as long as they let me, you know, I'd ask as many questions and I'd end up with like a twenty page transcript of the interview. And then I. Cut anything that? I thought could be cut and changed the order around. And then I made it almost, you know, into like a speech soon Reids in a much more organized fashion. You kind of rewrote it for them. I completely rewrote it. I could have started with something we talked about in the middle and consolidated the themes and everything, and then I sent it back to each person for their approval and said, you can add change delete. Are you happy with this and everybody, you know, I I really had to change very little which was great. So everybody approved it who's in the book. And and that's how they came about. Did you have anybody after you interviewed them just say, oh, no changed my mind. Completely one person. Really? Oh, that's a bummer. I won't ask who. You could. I don't I don't know why Kelly Ripa Kelly Ripa, a, no, that's hilarious. I don't I still don't know why she just decided she didn't wanna do it. How strange I would think for Kelly Ripa. It'd be a very big deal to be in the company of these other people in this book. I mean, Bloomberg I took her motos and did the whole injury Brahma. Vic? Yeah. I don't know. Anyway, she was she was in it interesting. What a crazy ride to get people. So I was really struck in buffets essay that he really didn't talk about investing at all. He talked about personal stuff. You talked about his emotional development. He talked about lessons he learned through his life. Was that because you didn't really ask him about investing? Or was that what he naturally gravitated towards talking about? I think a little. Of both. I think if you go to his meetings like you, do you see that a lot of it is sort of lessons, you know, on life in general. And I think that a lot of the things don't seem like they're about investing. But they kind of are it's kind of a lot of a lot of the things he talks about are are sort of the what made him into the person he is. And I think if he wasn't the person he is he wouldn't have managers of companies, you know, wanting to please him as much as everybody. Does. That is a great point. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with that. He's so respected. And I think it goes both ways, and he attracts wonderful people. He attracts wonderful to work for him. I mean, I think so many of the people who work for him who run his various. Company's never thought they would work for anybody else. You know, they're the CEO's of major companies exactly for him. They're willing to they're willing to work for him. And he does he he'd tax I guess about values and and that goes in. I think a lot of times. I mean, this it's almost a cliche, but you you're investing in people absolute. So he's sort of. I think looks for people who have similar values to to what he does. Yeah. I think that's a great point. I it's something actually have a noticing a lot as I've been learning this investing stuff in continuing how much it matters the people that were investing in. And I I don't see it a lot on Wall Street that people are talking about that it's very like numbers oriented, and you know, what's the stock price today, and that kind of stuff, and I just really shy away from that. Which is what kept me from learning investing for most of my life. But having learned now that there's actually an incredible. Investor out there who does look at people and think it's really important. It just drew me so much into buffet and the whole his whole value investing world, his amazing community that he's. Yeah. And he had tracked the people who go to his meaning, you know, in large part are good people. Yeah. I've been blown away by how much I like the people. Yeah. Who go to these value investing things to mongers meeting? I've met amazing people buffets meeting at various conferences. And I mean, even we met through an investor friend. So, you know, just it's just like one person after another I feel so lucky to be in this world now. Yeah, he he's a great role model and Charlie Munger is a great role model and have you met Charlie Munger? I have I have in Omaha is he's amazing. Do you? Now, kind of go and like live in the world of buffet among her as much. As I can. I'm definitely a groupie. A follower have gotten you to start investing. A little I my daughter. My daughter does. Oh, cool with my funding. So good. That's the best way to start with somebody else's money. Yes. Exactly. It takes that little name in her name. Yes. So other people in your book and buffet, actually, I noticed talked a lot about like hardships. They went through and struggles they had it wasn't a clear rise the top for anybody and buffered in particular talked about mistakes he had made what miss what stories about mistakes or learnings about mistakes. Did you take from talking all these different people from buffet or from anybody? I guess the you know, what I took when I first started doing this book, I thought okay, lemme find people who have a good story. And I quickly realized I just need to find people who I admire because everyone has a good story because everybody makes mistakes nobody, you know, succeeds it, everything so basically like you pick a person, and they've got some good stories to tell you. And that's so important to know when. You're starting out. And when you're you know on your path, and you encounter an obstacle to just know that this is just part of it everybody does. And how my going to react to this is what separates the people who end up succeeding, and the people who end up not succeeding and buffet, basically says he's made a lot of acts of omission. Yeah. Which is basically he's known about a company he's known everything and he's decided not to invest and had he invested. It would have been a tremendous success. But. With everything in life. It you're gonna you're gonna just bring yourself down. If you harp on all the things you could have done, and you didn't do or you did wrong. Just look at your successes. So Warren Buffett is the most successful investor in history. And we look at the things he's done. Right. We don't we don't harp on the things. He does wrong. My book get getting there. I'm so happy with all the people who said, yes. But there's like so many who said no who are who aren't in it who I who I reached out to and they you know, I I never got them. But but I got so many good ones. And that's how every single thing is in life, just like focus on on the successes not the nose. If you're paying high interest credit cards right now, then it's very hard to start investing. You've gotta get those credit cards paid off. And it feels so good to pay him off get a lower rate and save money. You can refinance your credit card balances and save with a credit card consolidation loan. 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It's funny that you bring that up because actually just in the last few episodes my dad, and I were discussing mistakes of omission because Charlie Munger and his daily journal meeting in February said, I think twice like enough that I remembered it said that there was some investment in the seventies that he did not make and if he had made it he would have doubled his net worth by now. Yeah. And he brought this up in twenty nineteen clearly still thinking about this investment that he missed like it just like rankles at him. Maybe not that much but enough to bring it up forty years later. Yeah. And I was thinking about that so much and like how do you deal with that as an investor? So I said this to my dad, and he said, you know, I bet it's because the price never got to where they wanted it to be just a little too expensive. Right. Didn't go for it. And and you just kind of have to have that discipline as an investor, then sometimes you're wrong. And sometimes you're. On. But who isn't even Warren buffet and Charlie monger, are so that should make everybody listening to this feel. Okay. Exactly. So who else talked about certain pieces of advice or failures? They went through that. You remember everyone everyone everyone. Yeah. That's the thing everyone. It wasn't easy for anybody in in my book. So the the guy who started Stony filled farm, which is like like organic ducks dairy products took nine years from to make his first nickel. Like they. They just couldn't get it going. Frank gehry. The architect was on the verge of bankruptcy for years. Wow. Sara Blakely who's a billionaire and founded spanks she worked for like a company that sold fax machines door to door for I think eight years. There's I mean, I could go on and on you name a person. And I could tell you about how how they struggled and failed. And yeah, you know, what I always think about when I so like such an obnoxious thing to say, so I apologize in advance. I always think about these people who are so successful in there. Looking back on all the struggles. They went there and how it eventually worked out for them. And I always think about the people who go through all the struggles. And it doesn't work out. Yeah. Me too. I don't even know if I have a question in here. Like, how do we? The people go what's the question? What's the question? It might kind of be like not every idea is a good one. And sometimes. You know, you should give up and switch. Yeah. Pivot. Well, like, for example, the people that you asked to be in the book, and they said, no. And at some point you accepted, it graciously and moved on yet that can hurt closed in the book came out. I couldn't I had no choice. They're like, we're publishing this. Stop trying. I ran out. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess I always think I went through a lot of tough like health problems, and sort of crisis of like what to do with my life when I was working at a big law firm, and and and my dad at some point this before I started investing my data points. Some point said to me, you are banging your head against a brick wall. And it's because you forgot what it feels like to not do that anymore. And and I kind of said to him are thought to myself. No, I'm working hard and pushing for something that I want and this is what it feels like to keep going through hardship. You know? Did anybody talk about how you tell the difference between when something is just hard, and you should keep going versus when something is hard. And it's a sign that you should turn around and pivot. I think that is like an amazing question and a really hard one to answer. It's really hard, right? Yes. Because on one hand people always say, you know, the difference between successful people and unsuccessful people are the ones who got off the road. And you know, but then again, you have to listen to the world around you. And like I said not every idea is a good idea. And maybe you should pursue something else. Or take a hint or so I think you have to really just keep your eyes open and try I think it all come. Is down to your personal monitor. Like, do you? Are you the? The type of person who gets it or not an end just ver- example. If you're asking somebody out on a date, you know, they might be playing a little hard to get or they might just be not interested in you've got to give up like, it's just not going to happen. And I think businesses is is like that. And you need to use your monitor to know, whether you need to shift direction or just get back up and try the same thing again. It's really a hard question to answer like in the abstract. I love the way you're saying that your own personal monitor. 'cause that's right. It's that intuition. It's that feeling inside of us, which if we're tapped into it, then we can usually tell what's right, and what's getting to be too hard. Yeah. I think you know, in in my book, Warren buffet talks. About how important it is to know your strengths and weaknesses. And he says knowing what to leave out is as important as knowing what to focus on. And he he actually quotes Tom Watson who is one of the original people at IBM who says, I'm no genius. But I'm smart and spots, and I stay around those spots. And I think that, you know, knowing knowing that really knowing your strengths and weaknesses, and then honing in on what you're good at really puts you at an advantage. Yeah. It's the it's the know thyself path life, and it's the circle of confidence that we talk about an investing. Yes, let applied to our own personal skills and abilities. I mean, I also noticed that a number of people you talk to an an on the subject talked about kind of out. Like non business sources of help like almost like self help. He kind of stuff like Warren Buffett took famously Dale Carnegie course, on public speaking. And he said it changed his life forever. Yes. There are a couple of other like David boies, who's a famous lawyer said that playing poker and bridge and making money poker and bridge taught him more about life and human emotions than his schooling patients. Yeah. Did those those things just come out? Or did you ask about them? They just came out. I mean because I wouldn't have known task about them. I think while I was doing my interviews. I asked a lot of open ended questions because if you only ask about the things, you know, about you're not gonna learn anything new. So I definitely asked a lot of questions where I got new information that wasn't already out there on the internet. But yeah, a lot of people did credit unusual things for their success. And other example, is Sara Blakely. Who's the billionaire founder of spanks? She listens to these. Dr Wayne Dyer tapes, I think becoming a no limit person. How to be a no limit person had to be a eleven. She mentioned they were tapes specifically. So the old. Yeah. Probably on a Sony walk. Anyway. And one of the most interesting things, it's it's. Sort of non business, but was how many people in the book credited sort of very basic jobs in sales for giving them the skills. They needed for their alternate success. That's true. Yeah. Sara Blakely was one of them. She worked, you know, selling fax machines door to door for eight years, and John Paul de Gioria he sold dictionaries door to door that's Kathy Ireland, who's like, you know, has a two billion dollar company where she brands products, she she sold herself door to door when she was a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model or about something here. You're trying to get other monomers. Well, we'll herself she used to have to show up and. And sell herself to get the job auto you hire me or not. Okay. Now what what so good about doing? This is that no matter what you're selling. You're going to get rejected and rejected and rejected. So whether you're selling yourself, whether you get hired for that modeling job or not or whether someone buys your dictionaries or the fax machine. You're you're being taught to be knocked down. And then stand back up and totally you know, if when you knock on the the seventeenth door of the day, you have to be as bright eyed bushy tailed as you were at the first store, if you're gonna make a sale, you can't be like to wanna buy one of these dictionaries, you have to be like, hi, I have the best thing for you to buy or whatever. Whatever your spiel is. And I think that that teaches people to have a lot of stamina in business because no matter what you're going for you're going to encounter hurdles, and you're going to have to jump over them and probably a little bit of what we were just talking about that personal monitor intuition of is this going to be a sale I can make if I keep pushing if I keep going or is this done. And I my time is better used going onto the next person. Yes. Reading people the other thing that a job in sales teaches you is something that Warren buffet, really, you know, tries to express the importance of which is communication skills. And that's what his Dale Carnegie public. Speaking course gave him and he says that if you could just improve your communication skills a little bit. It's gonna make a huge impact on your success and. When you're selling something you have to get really good at communicating if you're going to make a sale he says in your book that he thinks he would have been very successful in investing. He would have made lots of money. He would have you know, had all the business stuff that he does probably would have still happened without that course. But without that course, he says he don't he doesn't think he would have created the community of investors who come to Omaha every year and and learn about investing. He wouldn't have been able to communicate in his really unique extraordinary way that anybody can understand what he's doing a posting. He says no matter what you do. You're trying to get people to follow you and then business and restoring to come out of an investor's mouth. And if you don't have good communication skills. It's hard to get that like, even if you're a manager of a company, and you wanna get your employees or or the. People who are working underneath you to follow. You you. You have to be good at communicating. It's funny because I don't think about that in relationship to investing like, I think of it. And we talk about this all the time with value investing. How solitaire it is? And he have to like do your own research and stand by your own opinions, blah, blah, blah, and like anybody else will muddy the waters, you know. But to hear buffet talk about how important it is for him to be able to communicate especially because so many people actually work for him. Even the always talks about how small his office in Omaha is, but actually thousands of people work for right in different companies. Yep. I was just speaking to a friend who allocates money the other day. And she said they before they make an investment actually find out how a fund manager handles his or her employee's because they wanna make sure they're investing in a well run office. Uh-huh. And I thought that was fascinating. It would have never occurred to me to ask that yet. Interesting. How the dynamics work. Yeah. Before they put their money in very interesting. Yeah. So how did the people who are in the book respond to the book? Once it came out. Did they know who the other essays were by and some of them knew because in order to rope people in I would, you know, send a list of of everybody who else who is in it. So depends where you know where in the five years they came in. I definitely remember that interview he did five years ago. Yeah. It's coming out. But I have to say I got such an amazing response from everyone who's in it. And and the best comment that I got a bunch of times was thank you so much for including me in this. I'm learning from the others how beautiful and that really made me happy because I felt like, you know, what if they're learning from each other who won't learn from this book, absolute, and, and you know, everyone has different strengths and weaknesses and everybody in the book, you know, sort of had something different to add one thing. I love about this book is reading I mean, you can either read it like kind of piecemeal like you can pick it up and read one person's essay and really get something from that. Or if you read it through the comparison between the different essays and the threads that run through them as as we've been talking about all the failures. All this all the picking yourself up after having trouble all the success. Is that came later in life? It just really like strikes you, okay? Yeah. Everybody goes through this stuff. Yes. Yes. So last question. Okay. What's your favorite thing that you remember about medium, Warren Buffett? I like how accessible he is as in. Really? He's not he's well, you know, he's such a legend. He he is Sacha legend. But when you're with him, it's just like talking to regular person about regular things, which is what we talked about. And it was so relaxed like that whole. Vibe he has about being, you know, like just a regular guy from Omaha is the way you feel. You know, his office was not particularly fancy they let me in his office before he even you know, got there, then he showed up, and it was just relaxed. It wasn't. Well, of course, it was intimidating because he is who he is. But it wasn't like walking into some fancy law firm in Manhattan with views, and you know, and high ceilings, and it was just regular and that made you feel comfortable. Yeah. And and that sort of struck me is he a hugger? Did you give you a hug, I do not recall? Probably not. Thank you so much for coming on you guys. Check out her book it's called getting there. And as I said, it's a really good either. Like read it for five minutes and take something from it or read it for two hours and really take something from it. And check it out in San Amazon and everywhere else, Jillian, how can people find out more about you? If they want to look you up online. I think Lincoln's the best place. Cool go friend, Jillian a picture. I'll say, yes. Thanks so much. Thank you guys. Thanks for listening to invest it. If you enjoyed this episode, you want more information, including show, notes and more episodes. Visit us at invested podcasts dot com. There's a special offer waiting for podcast listeners to attend my three day investing workshop, absolutely free. So just head to invested podcast dot com. Everything discussed on his podcast, either my opinion, or Danielle's opinion, and is not to be taken as investing advice because I am not your investment advisor, nor have I considered your personal situation as your fight Dushi airy this podcast is for your entertainment and educational only. And I hope you enjoy.

Mr. Warren Buffett Omaha Jillian Zoe Segal Charlie Munger Sara Blakely Danielle town New York Berkshire Hathaway Oprah Winfrey Debbie Dale Carnegie Kelly Ripa Kelly Ripa Frank gehry Annie liebowitz New York David boies secretary buffet
LW1200 - Most Important Contemporary Photographer

LensWork

14:18 min | 1 year ago

LW1200 - Most Important Contemporary Photographer

"Here's the editor of Lens Publishing Brooks Jensen. I received an email a while back. Oh, gosh, maybe six months or so ago that has had me thinking quite a bit because it was a very simple, but very interesting question in the emailer wrote essentially. Who Do you think is the most important contemporary photographer? By contemporary him, assuming he means living working still with us at Cetera. And I find this. Fascinating question for all kinds of reasons, the first of which is why ask it. Why was this person interested in knowing my opinion about who I thought was an important contemporary photographer and If. There was some definitive answer, if I could just. Pick some photographers name out of thin air and say this person is the most important person. Why would that be important? Could it be that there's a certain amount of hero worship involved in that question? Kind of the same way we say who's the very best NBA basketball player that's ever lived. Is that Michael Jordan, or is it someone else in? Why do we care I? Mean even if we're big basketball fan. Why is it important that we try to rank people and say this one's the most important? And is it because we wanna make sure that whoever it is that we select as our? Most important photographer is worthy of our hero. I I. Don't know there. There's an interesting thing about that relative to celebrity and stardom, and those kinds of things. They're certainly a lot of celebrity photographers. Oh. Annie Liebowitz comes to mind is probably lots of others, but you know people who were reasonably well recognized names in photography. But are they important and that of course opens up the entire question? What is meant by the word important? Well since this individual asked me what my opinion was about who the most important photographer is. I'm assuming that I have to define what I mean by important before I can provide any kind of meaningful or interesting answer to such a question so for me. What counts order photographers considered important is not their fame or influence. which are probably the two things that most people would? Specify as qualifying for importance or the most important photographer. Are they famous? And how much influence have they had? So you know Steve McCurry is a really. Famous photographer because of the Afghan girl picture and all that he has done. And he has a considerable influence because there's a lot of people who look at his work and try to emulate it certainly in the non contemporary category, there's people like ansel Adams who are both famous and influential in the sense that he's got a lot of people who were essentially following in his footsteps, both with aesthetic style, and even with subject matter. But. That's not the way I think of the word. Important. For me, trying to define who the most important photographer is boils down to what lessons can I learn from watching someone else's creative path, and are those lessons ones that I can adapt for my own use. Have they taught me something by their example that makes them an important photographer. Maybe not to society at large, but they do to me, and since the question was asked of me, that's the definition that I'm going to use by defining who the most important photographer is. The other problem is. I don't think I could identify one person as being the most important as a matter of fact identified a whole bunch of them, and I'm in the process of. Writing and encapsulating my thoughts about all this, and that's what the series at Lens Work Online is all about titled Those Who Inspire Me and why? In that series I'm isolating specific things that specific photographers have shown by example that have been important in my photographic career, and there's a whole bunch of them. But coming back to the idea here for podcast, who is the most important contemporary photographer? I have three I. Just can't narrow it down any more than three for three very specific reasons. The first individual or mention is Huntington with real. I've known him for a number of years. He's become quite a good friend, but I I knew him as a photographer who inspired me tremendously. But the reason he makes my list of most important photographers because he's really living the creative life. Probably more so than anybody else I can think of off the top of my head, and by that I mean he is exploring. The world and his creative response to the world in ever so many different ways. He's not doing the same thing today that he did when he started out as compared to say well. I don't mean this to be disparaging, but someone like Sally Man who's basically doing the same kind of imagery in the same kind of place that she. was doing when she first and popped onto the scene. Her work today is not substantially different than it was then at least not that I've seen. Huntington Wither Law on the other hand has gone through all kinds of different phases. The first phase was black and white traditional landscape in the west coast mode. He was a master at it and has many many absolutely iconic images that are fantastic. But he didn't rest on those laurels. He pursued all kinds of other things now. He's doing imaginative photoshop reconstruction work. That are images that come out of his mind out of his imagination. He always starts with something that came out of camera. The Lens captured somehow, but what he ends up with is not at all what you would see if you had been standing next to him when he clicked the shutter. And he has ever so many different bodies of work that represent the creative path, and what I find so inspiring about that is that he explores an idea and tell he feels like he doesn't have anything more to say, and then he moves onto the next idea, and the explores that until he doesn't have anything else to say, the explores another one, and it's not uncommon for him to explore an aesthetic idea or a theme or a certain style and make. Five hundred photographs. Eight hundred photographs finished lovely beautiful things. But then when he's done, he's done. He moves onto the next thing so I find that incredibly inspiring that he hasn't found a formula that he's developed a career on what he's found is a way of life, and he's developed his career based on creative vision and constantly exploring the world and. There's also been lots of ways. He's explored the world. He eventually abandoned because he realized they didn't lead anywhere and so he doesn't try new things. Just for the sake of trying new things, he tries new things because they express some creative idea or some creative and aesthetic impulse within him, and he explores that until he sort of. Done everything he can do, and then he moves onto the next thing. I I love that aspect of his career even if I didn't like his photography, I. Do like photography, but even if I didn't like his photography, he would be incredibly. Important in a way of thinking because of the example that he shows us in terms of his approach to the creative life. So Huntington Weather Oh would definitely be in my way of thinking one of the most important contemporary photographers working today. Another one is David Plowden. David Plowden is kind of done the opposite. That is to say that David. PLOWDEN has been unbelievably productive, but working on essentially a single theme for his entire career, the difference between what he's doing and what say Sally Man that I mentioned earlier is doing is David Plowden. Theme is so broad that he could probably do that. One thing for his entire life and never finished the project. His theme is America. And my goodness. How do you photograph something as big and as varied and as interesting as America, but that's what his objective is. In the last time I looked. He had like I know forty books on his exploration of America. He's not nearly as well known in photographic circles as some others, certainly not as well known as you know the masters of old ansel Adams Edward, Weston etc not even as well known as contemporary photographers like. Sally Mann or like any leave of it or so many others. But what he's done I think has. Impact in history and I think his work will stand the test of time. We will still be looking at David plowden photographs one hundred years from now because of the way he has made such an incredibly detailed and important historical archive about America in the end of the twentieth century. His work will it'll. It'll be up there with August Sander and what he did for Europe. David Plowden will have done the same kind of thing in America. I wish he was more well known in photographic circles because his work is really spectacular. But interestingly enough his work is more well known I think for people who were interested in history and in culture, rather than in photography is a specific medium. And the third one and again I've talked about all of these people in the series. Those who inspire me and why, but the third one is Pedro Meyer because of what he's done to explore. New Media is a very talented photographer, but he is probably done more to embrace. Digital distribution rather than digital creation of photography. Digital distribution has been a big deal for him and I have a feeling that that is. Going to be looked at in history as a huge contribution to the history of photography, way out of proportion with his wall. He's still a famous photographer today, but he's not as famous as some. And I think when historians look back at the Times that we are living through. They will realize the Pedro Meyer was a real pioneer in the digital distribution of fine art photography, and in photojournalism and etcetera, and I think he's an incredibly important individual for having embraced digital distribution, and not getting hung up in Photoshop. Trick Ary and All of the new aesthetic his. was more in using the new medium to tell his stories photographic story to a much broader audience. And I think that was a vision that was incredibly important and will look back on and think he. He really was onto something that most people missed. Most of us were so involved in how to make digital photographs that we miss the bigger issue which is. The digital distribution of photography, and how that can affect people and connect with people in etc, so most important photographer I I don't have one I have three. Probably, have more than that, but that's sort of my thinking about hero, worship and People who are making a significant contribution by showing us through their example what can be done with this marvelous marvelous thing? We call photography. How to oriels, camera, abuser. On Youtube, but if you're interested in photography and the creative life, you need to know about the incredible resources you can access as a member of Lens Work Online Lens Work Online includes hundreds of hours of audio video in downloadable content, literally terabytes of content content and more content, all twelve hundred plus Brooks Jensen's podcasts, the complete here's a thought video library looking at images, commentaries, creative labs in new channels for twenty twenty, including finding the picture, and those who inspire me and why we add new content literally every day you can learn more about memberships to Lens Online at www dot lens dot com and don't forget that. Can Download the digital versions of Lens work for your tablet or computer, the most content rich resource for ideas and inspiration you'll find anywhere on the Internet. Copyright Twenty Twenty Lens, work, publishing.

David Plowden America Twenty Twenty Lens Lens Work Online Brooks Jensen Sally Man Lens Publishing basketball Pedro Meyer ansel Adams Huntington Annie Liebowitz editor Steve McCurry Michael Jordan NBA the Times Sally Mann Lens Online Huntington Wither Law
Got Milk?

American Hysteria

17:52 min | 1 year ago

Got Milk?

"Hey everyone before we get started. I just wanted to make you aware of our patron. On American hysteria is independent podcast. And it's not easy to make it as an independent part. Depending on your donation you'll get ad free episodes. You'll get an extra episode every month. You'll get extra video content and you might even get your name mentioned on our show. You'll also get to hear all of our darkest secrets before anyone else. We've already got many sewed up about the strange occurrences known as the curse of the exorcist. And another about the tylenol murders from the nineteen eighties and the conspiracy theories that link the unabomber to those crimes. We need our listener support. If we're going to keep going through this season and beyond so if you love our show if our show means something to you please consider donating to our patriotic. You can find the link in our shouts become one of our sweet patrons one of our sweet Satan's and now here's the show this is American histories aftershock. Were I share with you a story? That didn't make it into the main episode. I'm your host Chelsea Weber Smith and today. We're talking about an older milk. If you grew up in the nineties you'll certainly remember the glossy posters hung in every cafeteria bearing the iconic words got milk. You'll remember a roster of milt loving celebrities from Martha Stewart to Dennis Rodman to Elton John. Britney Spears that kid from Jerry Maguire Serena and Venus Williams van Halen naming Campbell. Mike Myers as Austin Powers Kermit the frog the Olsen Twins Bill Clinton. Jackie Chan Dr Phil Jennifer Aniston. Billy Ray Cyrus Kate Moss Whoopie Goldberg. David Copperfield Joan Rivers Hansen. The simpsons the entire cast of. Everybody loves Raymond and the best being of course Sarah Michelle gellar posing as Buffy as if she has time to drink. Milk will keeping us all safe from the helm out. All of these celebrities were photographed beautifully by none other than celebrated artists. Annie Liebowitz each war. A very cute and surprisingly cool white milk mustache for this national ad campaign encouraging kids to be healthy young Americans by remembering to drink their milk in nineteen ninety-five. Mattel got milk Barbie and in nineteen ninety eight. Hot Wheels made a got milk dairy delivery truck and now let's make that random call with today's ten thousand dollar question. It's a tough one who shot Alexander Hamilton in that famous duel. Who FOR TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS? Who Blow Excuse me Your time is almost up the I got milk. Tv commercial aired on. October twenty ninth nineteen ninety three and featured a man eating peanut butter sandwich while listening to a radio contest he's randomly selected and receives a call to answer. Trivia question for ten thousand dollars but alas without milk his mouth is stuck and he cannot speak the words as the screen fades to black. There it is the iconic phrase got milk this artfully shot award. Winning commercial was an instant success and it was directed by none other than a young and up and coming filmmaker fresh out of Grad school named Michael Bay. If you go back and appreciate these ads as an adult both printing TV. They're all beautiful and at times. Weirdly deep in one. A man who cruelly fired an employee suddenly dies after being hit by a truck and he ends up in eternity full of enormous chocolate chip cookies. Only to realize he's in Hell when the milk cartons in the internal fridge are devastatingly. Empty another features a dark thriller. Ask scene where a psychic kid. Not Unlike Damian from the omen will not eat a chocolate birthday cake because he foresees in an omen that there will not be the milk required to wash it down. The ad campaign was funded by something called the dairy production stabilization. Act Put in place by an alliance between the federal government and the California Milk Processor Board which considered milk to be an important part of the US economy polling showed that ninety percent of US consumers had seen some form of this. Got Milk Campaign to understand America's obsession with cow's milk. We have to go back to the mid eighteen. Hundreds a time of rapid urban expansion and technological development in the United States American families were moving from rural areas into the cities and as old habits. Die Hard a dairy industry emerged to meet the demands of these new. Urban dwellers and provide the dairy laden comforts of rural to the busy city dwellers breweries packed with dozens if not hundreds of cows produced what was known as Swill milk referring to this leftover mash from local distilleries. That these city cows were fed. Raw Milk was suddenly being made and delivered at an unprecedented rate. America's love affair with milk even managed to survive a panic in the eighteen fifties surrounding this swill milk. Which due to a lack of regulation was prone to grow all kinds of bacteria and disease including typhoid and cholera journalist. Frank Leslie ran an expose in his newspaper. Not Unlike Upton Sinclair's describing the filthy conditions in New York Milk Breweries. That produced what they called pure country milk. The breweries housed sickly cows and poor conditions that produced a foul blue tinted milk manufacturers attempted to change the color of this blue milk by using plaster of Paris. Eggs molasses and chalk newspapers speculated that the impure blue milk could be to blame for the deaths of up to eight thousand infants in a single year. Nevertheless milk would continue to be a staple of the American Diet going through the twentieth century. Thanks to a new French innovation called pasteurization though many complain that the process stripped milk of its natural flavor pasteurization ensured that even milk produced in factory farm settings could be consumed safely without having to worry about illness working alongside dairy councils the US Department of Agriculture drastically increased American milk consumption in the inner war period when a man named Elmer mccullum. Who was known as Dr Vitamin called? Milk quote the greatest of all protective foods in his nineteen eighteen book. The newer knowledge of nutrition the seized the day it was in this era that the USDA I began its aggressive dairy marketing campaign aimed at school children especially during the Great Depression when malnutrition was a serious issue for Americans this. Us Department of Agriculture promoted milk is a vital source of nutrition for kids possessing a huge surplus of dairy after World War. Two the government needed to unload it on the American public. Who at the time were particularly concerned with health? Nutrition and safety one. Usda pamphlet from the time read quote. Save on meet if you must but don't skimp on milk more after this. I don't know if you know this about me but I've never been a huge jewelry person except for the mood rings. I occasionally wear but thanks to Missouri and the beautiful and very cool ring. They sent me. I'm ready to hang up that mood ring and become a real adult. What if I told you get fine jewelry without it costing a fortune and without having to fight with your siblings for a hand me down from grandma with Missouri you get ethically sourced fine jewelry without having to choose between high quality and fair prices? We're talking fourteen karat solid gold staples that don't wear out or scratch easily. Sterling Silver Pearls. Which I'm thinking about getting an even dion's. Missouri is all about high quality but low maintenance because fine jewelry is precious. But you don't have to be precious about it. I'm very stoked on my ring and I think it makes my hand look pretty dope so this sounds up your alley head to Missouri Dot com slash A. H. or use Code H. At checkout for ten percent off your first order that's M. E. J. U. R. I. Dot Com Slash H for ten percent off your first order and now back to the show man. Good User Gold. Drink get nothing takes still good as good. Borghese male pizza right boys and girls. Borden is the good milk. It's the only male guy drink but that wasn't the only value seen in the Immaculate Whiteness of Milk President Hoover giving a speech in nineteen twenty-three told the world's dairy congress quote upon this Dairy Industry. More than any other of the food. Industries depends not alone the problem of public health but they're depends upon it the very growth and volatility of the white races. Oddly milk is becoming again. A potent symbol of white supremacy. The reason apparently is because most humans lack the enzymes needed to consume milk past childhood but some humans in Europe developed the gene through their use of dairy thousands of years ago. White supremacist play on this shaky. Biology something they consider unique to the white race though. It's also found in some African ancestry. The alright uses this grown eternal baby to prove. That white's are superior their superior long term baby milk drinking jeans. This belief system was popularized by a social media post from afar right. Troll account called entered the milk zone asserting quote. If you can't drink milk you have to go back like beef. It seems that milk is an important symbol of masculine power of conquering and of the hierarchy. The outright is certainly trying to protect in addition to the typical memes and message board posts. Some all right dudes have gone as far as to prove their racial superiority by chugging gallons of milk on camera now look. I think it's partially a joke. But I think part of it is also this obsession with showing everyone how proud you are of being a White Dude V. Engine bomb there. They are shirtless slapping each other around growling and flexing at the camera. Some wearing Maga- hats protesting what they call the Vegan agenda one that somehow closely related to. That's right the gay agenda and the illuminates Jewish agenda. This is a good example of one of the more extreme reactions in defense mechanisms in response to the mere existence of vegans. Ones that just through their choices throw those posturing as strong white masculine men into a Tantrum. That's Kinda cute in. How very very silly. They look but also they're white supremacists of course factory farmed. Milk comes with a slew of moral and ethical questions about the treatment of cows. And if you think dairies any better than the meat industry in a lot of ways. It's worse the treatment of cows in so many of these factory farms is enough to seriously turn your stomach and maybe even break your heart and it's not only that in two thousand eighteen. There were approximately nine point. Four million dairy cows in the US alone but gallons of water used to hydrate them daily can reach into the hundreds of millions and by some estimates even billions and the waste from just two hundred. Dairy cows produces much nitrogen as the sewage from a community of up to ten thousand people. If not taking care of properly the waste from these cows can contaminate local drinking water and the environment at large. For Now. The only consensus among scientists the nutritionist. Is that though? Humans are the only animals to routinely consume the mammary gland secretions of another species especially after. We're no longer little tiny babies any more drinking. Cow's milk healthwise is fine. Drink your milk kids. Milk for babies babies but milk isn't some kind of unique superhuman pump up protein bursting phone strengthening bad ass beverage that we have long been peddled. Vegetables AREN'T EASY NOT TO MENTION INEXPENSIVE alternative deliver the same nutrients. It's not essential to your health unless there are no other healthy options available like in the many food desserts that keep low income in rural communities from accessing fresh produce in local grocery stores for those of us with the privilege of nearby grocery stores. It's good to know that. No solid correlation has been found between increased calcium intake from dairy and bone strength as. We've all been taught to believe drinking. Less milk and eating less meat is slowly rising in popularity and there are a growing number of healthy plant based ANTIFA liberal Soy Vegan agenda milk alternatives. That don't support what it really means to extract dairy from cows on a massive scale not to mention at the same time lessening your personal impact on climate. Change the got milk campaign put a bunch of very cool faces over these fax even weirder. The celebrities were paid very measly amount of money at least by their standards. Twenty-five thousand that most donated to charity so these famous people were doing it just for the milk and each was required to pass a test proving that they loved milk before appearing in the add milk was in and we all believed in the promised land of it the iconic campaign is all but dead and exacts admit that despite its dope and mass popularity. The ads actually failed to sell more milk in the last few years milk. Pep The brains behind the dairy industries. Pr replaced the got milk brand with the milk. Life brand in one of their commercials. A son and mother follow after a soccer ball given power by milk. Propellers that a woman is pulled to quickly buy a pack of her dogs and is saved by a milk parachute that slows her down. A girl plays guitar while magic. Milk shoots from her fingers like fireworks in the end. The Commercial Muses Start Your Day with the power of protein milk life. This was American hysteria aftershock. Next time on the show we are covering the American symbol of suburbia the creepiest Utopia in American history. I also want to highlight this week. Two of my good friends shows one. Is Jim Perry's third season premiere of euphemism that amazing heartfelt paranormal podcast? That I got my start working on and secondly I want to highlight the brand new podcast called stories with Safire. Sapphire is the former host of the giant. Hit podcast something scary and for this first season. She'll be sharing the supernatural experiences that shape our world so toss off the chain of your American hysteria skepticism and join Jim and Sapphire for their brand new spooky beautiful seasons American esterias aftershock is written. Produced and hosted by me Chelsea Weber Smith Co written by Riley Smith with script editing by Miranda Zickler and production by clear Komo's studios so remember to donate to our patriotic. If you can also find us on social media we do a lot of fun things over there too. You can find links to all of this in our showed hymns so this week remember ordering a tall frothy glass of milk at a restaurant is super weird. Have a great week.

Milk New York Milk Breweries US Missouri Dairy Industry USDA Chelsea Weber Smith America Jim Perry Annie Liebowitz Mattel soccer Mike Myers Jackie Chan Dr Phil Jennifer A Upton Sinclair Paris David Copperfield Joan Rivers federal government Bill Clinton
88: The Opposite Of Love Isn't Hate, It's Indifference

Start Today Morning Show

26:10 min | 1 year ago

88: The Opposite Of Love Isn't Hate, It's Indifference

"Hey guys it's Rachel Hollis and I'm here with my friend. Trent Shelton was originally. How you doing? I'm living the dream man. We you tell listeners why we're hanging out together right now. We're hanging out because we're launching my new podcast straight up and I'm super excited so rad. If you guys are not already familiar they were threat. He has millions and millions of fans all around the globe who come to him for a very unique style of coaching. Yeah we're unique straight. The point is really as I can put it straight from the heart and breaking through those negative mindsets breaking through of what's holding you back in people's lives and long form love that so if you guys want to hear more you're already listening on podcast platform go subscribe to straight up with Trent Shelton. Let's go let's get it. It's the morning show that no one are knows I'd no one is talking about. No one is talking about but if they did they probably the best way to start art and gave goodness used in the show by yourself. I don't know what's happening the closer to you although there you are you'll sailor wholesaler. You Good morning he Hello happy Wednesday. We're going to be happy in it but it is not a happy when it's gloomy outside. It's raining leaning view is not doing anybody any favors. Now Gold action behind us. I like it. Well let's go balloons or still inflated deflated. They're still here. How much did it freak you out when there were? Let's go because you don't tend to like people to celebrate you. I was happy but also felt a little awkward because I was like. Why are you in my office? Why are there so many balloons? What am I supposed to do now? That you're celebrating me. Thank you and the things that he complained and and was upset about most in his career at Disney was if they ever celebrated him in any way a most suspension on his birthday. We'll here's the thing ever heard. Someone complained so much about these of densely. We're going to go to dinner this week tomorrow with some friends to celebrate my birthday which was on January ninth. Like I'm still not done so bring my birthday. Because they haven't and checked off all the boxes this guy you know they get him a box of bagels and people gather in the conference room to have bagels. And he's crying well. Here's here's what I didn't like. I'm not trying to be weird about it but what I didn't like was he gave. We've got a meeting. That wasn't on your calendar. It's just it's in in a conference room that we're not usually in. Would you mind coming with us over to this room for this very important. I'm sorry what do I have to prepare for your not to prepare anything. Just come on into this room and then everyone would hang out and joy like decorated bagels. Because you know what you know what I don't know. Oh what when you get to be an executive. You forgot a long time ago. How joyful it was to have someone show up with Bagels for you? So let them have their bagels. Let them have their donuts. Let them have their kate. My hardest going. It's a moment in time like a Whitney Houston Song. Let them have their the celebrate. Alamein Tunein it's not about you. It's about the Bagel is about the celebration. Oh people want a moment element to celebrate. And if you don't like it who cares. Suck it up and smile awkwardly while people seeing like every other person in the history of the happy birthday so I didn't even do anything yet today. Well I'm preparing myself for February fourteenth because I know I am excited. Balloons ends and I was like Oh lord about him. We go drawing attention to oneself. There's some there is something strange about my wiring. I mean like on on every level on every level literally on the level every level. I don't know what it is. Yep every level. Aw All of them happens it happens. Hey did you see I Put up a post today letting humans know that I am outside of your door right now knocking talking the thing that startled. You was me letting you know that I'm coming to town. I am going on a book tour. I'm going to every single city in the entire country of the United States of America and a single city in Canada. And I am ready for it. It starts in March. y'All be ready for that though. It's comeback about what really matters. We can talk about anything. Can we talk about Bene- for talked about it yesterday. Stole My. It's not benefits Bradfor- that is absolutely not what we call them back when they were together. You called Brad Ben. Oh you're right. Dana for was J.. Lo and Ben. It wasn't it what was it. It was something. What was it? You guys I don't know it was something well it's it wasn't no. It was better for friends and in Iraq. Yeah Ben Chan for the Jennifer Garner Sweetheart Berry Angelina range. Lena ended ended up with Angelina. What have we call Gen? It doesn't matter. The point is the Internet. I don't care if you did this yesterday because this was my thing not hit. The point is that the the Internet exploded. Everyone's freaking out because Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt like had a moment together at whatever award show every tin was that Uh. I don't remember that I don't either anyway. Everyone's like freaking. They had this moment and like. Oh my gosh is this mean. They're getting back together. Oh my heart. Can't handle at Blah Blah Blah. Where were you all? Where were you? Things did not end. Well he did not treat her well. He left her for Angelina. I'm not even sure if he left her free and clear before he ended up with Angelina and then all the sudden any Liebowitz was taking their picture in a backyard. Right there what window the Annie Liebowitz get into this right from the top. She was she was it was Vanity Fair. Oh and everyone has forgotten because they're both pretty eighty like because he's handsome and now he single which by the way y'all it did not end well with Angelina either. I don't know that he's a a good guy. He is beautiful and none of us are ever going to forget that moment. It we're in the was it. A river runs through or legends of the fall. Whichever one where he liked tips the tip of his hat and water flies off his cowboy hat? We're not gonNA forget good crier by a river a the prior liver club and the way that his stomach loved. We're not gonNA forget those muscles muscles just below the belt. Are these women who were like. Oh my gosh forget back with now you come back from that at-at you don't get to come back from that. He's not only screwed over one woman he screwed offer to live his life of bracken live his life Jennifer just needs to do on her own without him in Y'all now I'm not saying you but there are people on the Internet right now. We're like oh my gosh praying for these detail. What I think it is honestly as a reflection of how desperately this world needs hope and light that this was the thing that was like maybe this will finally bring the Humphry together over? Finally this is all all of a would be not standing in her own power our not moving on giving some fool a second chance for all my good. Oh my goodness I forgot. I was like. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry I have never cussed life. I don't know what just happened. I'd like a review. I don't like like cheaters. I'm so sorry I am so sorry. Please forgive me I need no. Don't bring him in here until I have property. We'll need to bring something to just completely change your gentlemen welcome. Oh aw I'm so sorry IT MAKES ACRI don't put up with ladies and Gentlemen Shelf is here to save all of us. You talk about. Women put up with people who don't treat them right. That's a cussing offense. I know I'm trying to get in here. We got Trent come in Trent. What is happening? Hardly Hardy. Can you save us man. It's all right every everybody because you did it alive. You know people do not alive. So you're all right they'll get over him. MM-HMM DIANO Trent Shelton. Do you know this man man. Trent is a friend he is a killer on stage. He's now got an amazing. PODCAST has every single Wednesday a new episode role in in And he's all about. I know it's so it's so Janke. The technology of this morning morning. Go Watch it on. So Casey Trent what is up. Man What are you doing today man. I'm just chilling about his actually ran out of his green also. But it's raining in Dallas. It's cold you know anything under forty I is called so I'm about to go get some cryotherapy and then go to work after that talking about therapy. Tell us all about that experience. And how long have you been doing. Ed What do you go fully in training. I know this the trenches his training. He's GONNA run himself up fast. half-marathon well you know we. We talked backstage about the half marathon and I saw like in our fifty four minutes. I'm like I gotTa speeded-up you look great job brother Creo subbing for a while because just playing sports you know. Ice Baths are really good for you but I just I hate ice baths on the anybody loves it so Kreil. It's bad but it's not as bad as ice baths. Oh Yeah. I go to hold Tom Three minutes as low as you haven't been conversation with someone it kind of takes you off the pain okay. So is great. Go in and it's like like your head stays out of the thing fully emerged. Your hit stays up your head stays out and it gets is probably negative. Maybe one fifty two hundred degrees in there. But you can't really feel it so it's like why does it. You're what I'm so it's like so basically it's What's the word It's like it's not nitrogen but it's kind of like The Ice Cream Crema screen or anything anything like that. So it's kind of like the same thing that they use in there so you feel it but you don't feel it that bad and then going there for three minutes and the benefits are incredible. So I definitely suggest do. y'All should take when you go. Do you feel like you've felt the benefits right away or absolutely absolutely yeah just released all the information and everything so I need this in my life are Trent. I was listening to today's haters podcast. But for anyone that doesn't know about your podcast. Cast were you just give a quick. Here's what it is. Here's why it exists. Here's what you're getting into because it straight fire and if people aren't currently listening to it they need it in their life. Yes Oh my pockets straight up and I guess incentive just straight up a real about situations and so if you watch my videos if you follow me any Type away like you're GonNa love it so today's episode was why people hate you and I want to bring understanding of why you have haters and I think if you listen to this thirty minutes all it takes it changed your mindset forever when it comes to people hate you because at the end of the day people who pay you attention. They don't hate you. They really admire you. Just gotTa Dip away showing it so listen listen to it. I think it'd change of perspective for sure. I like that line. If people are hating on you they aren't haters. They are interested in you. They they have some. I'm kind of affection for you. They look up to you but they have a broken way of showing. I think it's like that that quote the opposite of love isn't hate. The opposite of love is indifference. It's like if you really truly don't care like the people that I don't. I just don't consume their content. So what we would refer to today as like it. Caters are these people who keep consuming your content just so that they can talk crap about it and that's not. Hey that's something else I love in the podcast cast today. There's this if you really hate a TV show. Are you spending time making sure you know the log lines of that. TV show. Are you checking in to see what's happening in the characters characters that TV show. No because if you hate that show you're paying it no mind so if someone writing something in the common thread if they've created some kind of crazy Z.. Group Subgroup to talk crap about whatever it is they are paying attention to you because of something that they admire in you and and I man it's a great twist for your mindset just to reframe why someone would pay attention to you if truly they didn't like your hated you they would not pay you any any mind whatsoever. Yeah I think that even a different sort of crazy way I always think when when the haters get real loud I literally will go like Whoa. What were we talking about? What did we just put out in the world? 'cause I always think that like when you're really doing good working you're putting good into the world and you're shining your light that's when it gets the loudest in terms of opposition which to me is always a sign of like. WHOA that you're doing right now? You need to double down that you need to do it even more than you have. You always felt like this about about getting negative feedback battle of you always have built up over time. Built up a main I used to struggle with it when I first started. I guess like react Tom. I took off maybe like Arnold Twenty Fourteen Twenty fifteen and he used to bother me because I would spend time like you know kind of going through my comments and it's crazy because no matter how much love our received like the ones that warrant show love with stick out to me and I think that's a good sign with people like is you're doing something right because I mean everybody's hey you oh you the maybe not hitting you might be telling you the truth about something but if it's you know very minimal Then you have to realize that that's a part of greatness like there's no one in the world I don't care who you point out that's achieve greatness that everybody likes them and so I was like man this is affecting me like in a negative way. How can I change my mind sets words and so so I would personal like we've all been hager right at some point in our life and for me? The time where I had my hair court had to be when I was getting company. NFL and because I was was hurt I was miserable. I wasn't happy so like always say even paid man and I would like man pains not that good like I will make all these things. Make me feel good about myself. And so I started Gotcha realize like haters confused supporters. They aren't happy with their life. And usually you have something that won't instead of being motivated inspired by you. Do they get jealous. Because I feel like your success means their failure and so when I start to understand that mindset like I don't even block people more especially instagram. 'cause they got the restrict options so I'll just restrict you know so they can still see it because if you like it you can press a follow because those are the people that you probably need to help the most and that need your information the most. I love the idea of like you. What's the best response to hate? Love you know. And it's like the example you give today's show of like the person who is heading. The hardest was the person who is raising their hand. The like tallest asking for your help. They needed some attention. They wanted so badly for you to throw a rope their way. And even though they didn't know how to show that you in like starting with and being consistent in love as the response back to somebody ended up having a breakthrough and now. They're a person who's lifelong fan right there. Lifelong into being a part of something. That's about positively because of your not deciding deciding to fight fire with fire which is dealt. Yeah I mean you don't put out fires by fighting in an even from the standpoint like somebody obviously somebody's saying anything to get attention. Obviously they want your attention. It reminds me I remember we will go to opposing teams. I mean they would know things about your mom like everybody's crazy like I bubbles. Name is awkward. Maybe like I saw aqua last night and all this stuff I'm like why and so the worst thing you could do in his happened somebody is get it angry. They respond back soon. Because soon as you responded like okay we got you. They just keep thought also they know about seven years so much about your pass dig it up. The best thing you can do. Is the goal ball out because when they realized that use their scoring touch downs. You're still making plays in that fuels you end up setting up and they go find somebody else so I realize laws like I'm not going to get a response they I'll give them responsive they go. Yeah I think this is like this is there's a bunch of different quotes on this idea. This goes back to like some sue and the the art of war but if someone can make you angry someone can control you if they can control your emotions. They are in control of you. So if you're getting angry you are out of control for all and you have to keep coming and it's hard right every day. There are opportunities to get emotional. Having Zayed's get frustrated like especially if you're running a business you're dealing with your kids but if you are allowing someone else to affect your mood. They're in control. You are not in control so a love. I love that reminder and I love of really encourage anybody WHO's watching this to understand that this truly is a journey that you go on to get to a place where you don't care because I definitely he didn't start out not carrying. I'm still on the tree still on Yup. We're all but I definitely I. I don't care it the way that I used to. I really used to care about strangers on the Internet and what they thought of me and now I'm like Gosh every time that I even take a moment to even read that comment or see every single time I get distracted from the work that I believe on this earth to do whether that's working with our community or being a mama or having in this business and I don't have time to get distracted so it's like people are going to keep talking. I just I don't listen to it. Well I can say to the interesting thing is I i. Can I stay connected to. What is motivated me? So wanting to actually read every comment what is motivating knee. WanNa read every review and the reality is it's super or ego driven. I'm looking for affirmation that I am qualified enough or good or worthy and inevitably as much as you could see ninety ninety five of one hundred things that affirm that paying attention to the five. That distract you from it is such to your point. Waste of time but also undermines signs the entire exercise that ego thinly shallow veiled thing of wanting to go out and make sure that you're doing good in the eyes of other people. Just just I'm training myself. Feel that for yourself before you can go to the comment stream and get over it because inevitably if you're doing something great if you're doing something worthy earlier decent in this world it comes as part of the price of admission with people who are GONNA hate. That's just it. Yeah and if you I mean you're the Nella in it because even if with with praises like the realize this soup because I mean maximum awful ball journey like Acronym for fans. I'll tell you what that is awful But fans are people who are to me. If they're fickle right fans only care about what you can do for them and once you stop pleasing them. They no longer fence was playing in football at Baylor are of the NFL. Like the people's like very minimal. People still checkup on me. Well especially after I stopped playing. Now you know maybe since rehabs arm they'll come back but I realized that if you live by your diet so if you live by those phrases you'd novels praises live those criticisms criticisms so. Don't let it get you too high. I don't let it get you too low and also to like what's really helped me is think about like if I'm spending my time responding somebody who hates me like that's not fair fair to the people who support me. You know what I'm saying like I literally take that same time importing to people who support me and then at the end of the day people by someone's hate cannot stop. You like somebody can say train. Your podcast sucks doesn't matter I'm still going to make podcast. So they're hate cannot stop you without your permission and once you realize that you stopped taking it as personal as you probably care but you just don't care enough to stop anything that you're doing. Yeah yeah so your show comes out new episode every single Wednesday. This week was all about haters. What some of the other stuff for people who are a little less like who who? Who is this trend? What is was he upset? What kind of topics are you gonNA hit on? The regular is so a lot of a lot of a lot of it will be about mindset my first step assode is the rehab process. I encourage everybody's listening to it Episode coming up very soon as called championship Masa breakdown. The five traits not feel makes anybody a champion and then a lot of self worth constant. Is it because I'm just big on not allowing people all these external things change how you feel about your internal self so if you're a person that's struggles with that. I think this podcast is free. Awesome and the PODCAST is called straight up with Trent Shelton. You can look up that title or just look up his name and as always if you dig a podcast whether it's Trent's dance or ours or anybody else please subscribe because subscriptions help your podcast creator and since podcast free. It's just this little thing that you can do super helpful to us so check out. Check out straight up today and make sure that you subscribe track brother. Thank you so much for hanging out with. Do you see Dan. We'll see you in Toronto. Right Right Yep I have a great day and we're turning aren't we. We're back the Technology Matthew minutes and then I gotta go. I had right writing. What is is this? It's writing the book due at the end of January. Don't ask me how many words I have written because that will stress all you read me some of it though in two days ago and it got to hear the intro. Chapter of the next book comes out in December from this human being and it is good it. Ah Good aren't love your hat. I do of love your melon. which is a really good company? Love your melon Go check them out. This is an older head. I've had it for several years but I'm sure that they still have some version of this as cute little pom-pom on back. How Fun is that attic? Someone who is a member of WHOVILLE. You're like winter ready. I like that. It's been raining outside. It is cold and rainy. Trent had distracted us from your Human Kosslick because I loved it. Well thank you. Christie is being is because I got a well. That's the same out I just don't do it online because I want any very respectful that I know that usually kids around. And that's not cool. I just got really fired up Book tour details L. So we are going to put up a link to a landing page Very very shortly you will see all of the city's all of what's happening the times and well you know there's two different ticket tears The I've general. ADMISSION TICKET COMES WITH A book. Get to come in for a ninety minute conversation with me. There's a a premium ticket that also includes an exclusive start today journal and assigned book in a chance to meet me and have a quick picture so I am excited for it. All the details like I say are going to be up on the site here shortly we will put them in our stories and our feed and everything else I right. You guys have a fantastic Wednesday. We will see you tomorrow. That is on Thursday day. And if you like the morning show you'd every single weekday for absolutely free. We sure would love it if you take screen shot and put it on social media until your friends that it's the Jam Damn and if you're listening to this podcast later and sure you subscribe to the podcast because yellow listening. y'All are joining subscriber. Originally tomorrow. He guys thank you for listening to start today morning. Show podcast if you want to actually see the episodes. Make sure you tune in the morning every weekday eight. AM central on facebook and instagram. On basically every channel we have our theme song is from Sarah Sunshine. Follow her at the Sarah Sunshine. Our executive producer is Cameron Berkman. The show is produced by Chelsea her. Our Food and Kevin Westlake with production. Help from Nicole Fisher and I like to give special. Thanks to Hawk the fish that will never die

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Improving the News, with Max Tegmark

StarTalk Radio

56:33 min | 5 months ago

Improving the News, with Max Tegmark

"Apple original series soviets might be trying to introduce into web. Plus we do this thing. There's no going back for all mankind. Watch the new season exclusively on apple. Tv plus to understand how america is facing up to its challenges domestically and globally. You can rely on the financial times. Our journalists report on the nation's biggest stories in issues not just from the perspective of the us but from the perspectives of beijing brussels and london to her few america's news in a global context with the financial times read more at f. t. dot com slash new agenda. Welcome to start your place in the universe. Where science and pop culture collide. Dr talk begins right now. This is start talking. i'm your host. Neil degrasse tyson. This episode. I'm calling a physicist reads. The newspaper chuck. I'm not that not that. I'm living just in case anybody was won. In fact every comedy routine is really. A comedian. Reads the newspaper right. 'cause you're typically there's a lotta commenting on absolute on current events and events but so the shadow was created because i saw this product out there. This thing this interface. That i just had i got to get the creator that interface on star talk and that creator is a physicist an old time friend and colleague max. Tag mark max. We'll come back to start talk. Thank you neil. All right max. Professor of physics at mit does a lot of different things with his life has got a couple of books out there He loves the subject of ai. And thinking deep thoughts about the future civilization and our ability to be the the good shepherd's of the power we have over ourselves and what that means. So max. you've got this thing. I've been reading about called improved news. This is very ambitious of you. You did this like what you did this. You did this for your summer. Covid vacation my god. What is wait a minute. Is this a physicist version of the clay ashtray at that to bring home from summer camp. Oh yeah well the little maccarone. What it max do for his summer vacation case. And what does it have to do with the news but actually goes all the way back to when they lockdown in march. I just thought. I'm going to go crazy and i decided to take the single thing i was most upset about. Just trying to do something a little bit useful about it and that was march twenty twenty when they closed the only mit mit many other schools. Who were smart. Closed down right there in march okay. Yeah and i think. Feeling as i'm sure many of you who are listening to this also feel it. Our democracy hasn't been doing so great. Recently there are increasing signs of polarization this function. And it's not just here. In america it's happening a lot on the global scale also. I think it's so easy to slip into this over quick diagnosis. And just say oh. It's because of so and so it's their fault that's it. I think the root cause of this is a lot deeper and actually has a lot to do with machine. Learning people have stopped reading the newspaper on paper very much and most people get their news now from social media and so on they are constantly being manipulated by these algorithms. That are just trying to show them. Whatever they're gonna click on the most maximize ad revenue and an unfortunate result of this. I have a lot of friends you know in the companies do this who totally haven't seen it coming just to be clear. The companies that do this. That's euphemism for facebook for twitter for instagram. That's that's for sure google. These algorithms discovered that the best way to keep people glued to their rectangles. It's a show them things that elicits strong feelings pissed them off for example. It doesn't matter so much if it's true or not that long as has the effect of gluing them to their screens. This has caught trap people in these filter bubbles where they just read more and more stuff that reinforces whatever conceptions they had and it's gotten to the point that people with different views ten even talks in civilized ways with each other anymore and start to hate each other to start to think. Hey is it that. I never see to science friends as bitterly about the interpretation of quantum mechanics as i see people insulting each other across party lines over politics. What is it that we do right. In the scientific truth seeking the maybe we could share and beam into the media landscape a little bit. We have this pretty good scheme for how to figure out what's true actually and it's called science right so i decided to code up this tool would which you mentioned i we did it for students for so it's free no adds anything you know. I love the idea of democracy to flourish. People have to have a good understanding of what's actually happening in the world right. Only then will they vote in their self interest and do constructive things. And i think i'm not the only person who feels that the overall quality news has been going down. So hey if we can improve a little bit. Awesome so max. I don't want to interrupt. But i just gotta ask you in in your development of this improved the news tool Did you factor. In the fact that most americans are stupid meal. This is not only. I'm just saying that. That's a factor. That is a factor. I would say this is propaganda. Big companies that running algorithms that trap people into saint blame it on the consumer. It's same old tricks that tobacco companies used to us. It's not our fault that children's start smoking. Cigarettes is just stupid. Don't blame us right. Okay shifting blame. Wh what's actually happening of course is an ordinary american can only choose between the things they have access to and if we have very weird sort of choices we have to pick between them and then what happens happens. I wanted to make it easier for people to actually break out of the filter bubble a little bit and see other points of view. And so you're not actually creating new news. You're changing how people gain access to news precisely. That is why iraq tag band of Nerds like myself could actually do something like this. Make it free. Because trading news would be super expensive. That will be a journalism project here. The premise is that there are actually a lot of interesting news out there and a lot of news which are very misleading and to create a tool. It just makes it easier for people to navigate this. So i people told me max off. This is never gonna work because people are stupid. people just want to be told what the already believe. I don't buy that. in fact there's a really nice study by a colleague of mine and mit professor. Dave rand also suggesting that actually people like to find out if they're wrong if as long as it's presented in a respectful way if you're planning on doing little startup company wouldn't you like it. If some friend explains to you that this is never gonna work and explains what you've missed. Of course you want to know that right but if he starts by insulting you you're not naming and listen to the rest and then today's media landscape if you have someone who's been reading this particular media source and they decided to take a walk on the wild side and joe look at something else and the first thing they see is like a photo their favorite politicians. That's chosen to be deliberately ugly illustrate the article. And then there's some really really strong insulting words failed. Just sorta tune out. So what happens. Is that if you go to improve the news dot org is. You're in the driver seat. You have these different sliders you can move around one of them says nuance it. So if you don't wanna be insulted just dialed up the high nuance and then. If you wanna see now people are reading. Who disagree with you. You can take left right slider for example and move it over to the other side and now see on the same topic that you had chosen to read about that other parallel universe so to speak what people are saying there. There's another slider which is also important called up the establishment slider so of course. Most of the big newspapers are owned by powerful companies. And so on who. Don't want a lot of news saying bad things about themselves and so if you'd like to see more criticism of the powerful you can play with that slider and it makes basic very easy for you to explore alternative viewpoints. Okay so i did it. I'm i'm actually on improved. News dot org right now. I figured you know what why. Why just listen to you about. I mean you're only the guy that's why. Why do i gotta take your word for it. So max so what you're saying is you are an aggregate under in a in a in a in an interface that filters according to sliders. That's right that's right all right so now so now. Is this every single news source. That's out there is breitbart. One of the search places is in there. Okay so so is totally extreme left wing right wing propaganda in there is there you know if if this were nineteen thirty seven germany. Would hitler stuff being there and his pamphlets like is there a limit to the edges of this that you have selected that yeah there to limits one as you know this bunch of folks couldn't put everything out there but it has right now a lot of stuff about one hundred different newspapers really spanning the political spectrum the main limit. There's it's just english language stuff second. There's nothing in there. That advocate violence for example. Hit with any kind of hit their stuff. Would you would not find their okay. All right breitbart is in there. Whatever you think of them. There's a very broad spectrum out on the fringes where there's a lot of crazy stuff and as long as they're not respecting the democracy chronic ideals. They're in there and idea. This is very much not to be some sort of william thing that tells you what you should read but put you in the driver's seat instead so in other words normally when you go out on seek the news right is facebook or google or whatever. We'll remember all the things you clicked on before and figure well. This is probably what neil is going to click on so there. You're basically selecting your news impulsively through clicks. It's just like if you select what you were gonna eat by just walking through an all you can eat buffet and always picking things up on impulse. I wanna try instead to see what happens if people are giving them more deliberative a opportunity to choose their news. Kind of like when you plan out what they're gonna buy ahead of time in the supermarket instead and say i wanna try. I wanna to read about these topics a little bit more of these topics a little bit less. I wanna try. Look it from this perspective. So i'm on your site right now and i have to say one. This is an excellent idea. Occurred fricking brilliant. Our on it. Yesterday it is really really. I mean it's and the reason why so great is because it's so simplistic you know Now the second thing. I wanna know max is is this proprietary. Did you actually take these programs and register them on them. So that when we sell this to every news organizations it's we will. They will not be able to come in. And just take this technology because the truth is as the fact is that this allows the The advertising model to still stay intact but still gives the reader some freedom and some agency over the content that they're consuming so you know reputable news agencies should actually be using something like this because it really is a very good tool for the reader. Thank you my goal is to never make one cent on an ever. That's supposed to be michael goal. Man that's what i that's what i'm pitiful ads. That's why it's free. Mit is also one of the pioneers of the whole open source movement. We even give away our choruses for free right so for example. The machine learning tools we developed for this news. they're already open sourced online. Wow the goal with this is to improve the news so if other people take ideas from this and do things also improve the news you know i say more power to them Wow that's what the goal is here big but the have make an improvement all right so suppose i choose to only get my news through this medium. Does this creates the copyright problems at. Fortunately not you know. There are many news aggregate out there. She go to google news. For example you will also say apple news. You'll see the headline. And then the article you can click on it but now you come to the newspaper itself a them who has actually giving you the article that they have copyright on all right. We got two quick break. We'll come back. i wanna get in. I wanna get under the hood of this and what what are the engines that are driving it. What is the open. Source that you use. And what did you add to it. And i want to really find out how it works and whether in fact there can be some implicit bias even in this product that presents itself as bias. So when we come back on this episode is brought to you by better help. It's important to take care of your mental health. And if you're looking for some tips on how to do just that. Here's angela kinsey and jenna fischer from the office ladies podcast. I know a lot of times. People make resolutions in the new year but to make a resolution stick. Sometimes you have to examine the deeper issues that might keep you from reaching your goals for example you say oh i want to get in shape and so you get a gym membership. But you don't take the time to unpack those reasons why you continue to make unhealthy choices. Oh that's so good. Just you saying that is making me. Think why. I don't exercise right. Sometimes she's zingo. I don't deserve the time for myself. Why don't you think you deserve the time for yourself. Better help is a great place to unpack some of these bad habits. Better health offers online professional counselors. Who can help. You can connect with your counselor in a safe private and confidential online environment. These counselors are trained in a variety of areas. Twenty twenty was a hard year. Yes a lot of extra stress. A lot of us have been stuck in the same house with people. And maybe that's led to some relationship issues. I really like their approach to finding a counselor that meets your needs. Because i think that's always the most intimidating part for me. Better help is a convenient and affordable option and our listeners. Get ten percent off their first month with discount codes stitcher get started today at better h e l p dot com slash stitcher with masterclass. You can learn from the world's best minds anytime anywhere and at your own pace. 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Talk for fifteen percent off. I'm roy hill percival and i support star talk on patriots on bringing the universe down to earth. This is star talk with neil degrasse tyson. Rebecca startled chuck nice here. Hey jack you're tweeting. Chuck nice comics still. Thank thank you surrogacy. I don't plan on changing nice i. We're talking about a physicist reading. The newspaper possibly revolutionizing how people Think about the news that they're presented with this product software basically as a went on a website. And it's called up maxed. It's called improve the news dot. Org improve the news. I got max tag mark old time friend and colleague professor of physics up at mit. So max This product allows you to to in real time with a slider. See different news outlets. Treat the same topic. Through whatever lands they carry with them. So that's brilliant and you think you're sure people will do that. That they will have a curiosity. I wonder what they say about this. You think people will do that or will they just still stay in their own stovepipe. Doesn't this give them more tools to not have to listen to anybody else because they can lock it into place locking. I'm way right run. Just i'm moving my slider to the right and gluing is their emphasis. And now i'm going pros and that's it. Yeah locked him. Is this an unintended possible consequence. I try to be humble about this. So i'll be the first thing. Of course. I know exactly how it will play out. I feel quite negative about this They patronizing big brother. Mentality of saying you kneel cannot be trusted at all whether your own choices. I'm gonna make them all for you and in that case. I shouldn't even let you walk on bridges because you might decide to jump off of it. You know you shouldn't be allowed to do anything dangerous. But in all fairness there. I even utter such a sentenced to facebook and google. They weren't thinking to themselves. We can't trust you to make the decision this is the unforeseen seemed byproduct of their business model. Yeah right and so not that. They aren't blameless but it's not that they they weren't trying to play big bro and have a lot of friends that go going facebook very eddie. Listening people had not foreseen that the simple algorithm maximize people screen time would create a very such polarized society. As we have now. So how do you end up choosing the articles. What let's open up the hood and see what kind of engineers there. So how does this work. So i just wrote a bicycle code lives in which doesn't choose articles just downloads vacuum cleaner. All the articles from from one hundred different newspapers came. I don't have time to read five thousand articles everything myself and figure out what about of course so for that. We do some machine learning to go read each article and classify it now. The machine learning that is used today in google and facebook. And so on it mainly classifies you. It says okay based on everything you clicked on. We think that you're gonna the kind of guy who's likely to click on this article and this article to the machine. Learning is there is sort of big brother. Classifying the user trying to manipulate the user into watching as many ads as possible here instead. The machine learning classifying the articles. And giving you the opportunity to affect your choices so the way we did this under the hood was new york times once upon a time paid humans to read one point four million articles and classify what they were about into about six hundred. Different categories shoots huge data sets and then together with a bunch of mit students. We trained so-called artificial neural network to Read through all this and replicate the human classification. And let's be clear. Neural network is a decision tree. Basically right that enables one bit of information to get you to one place and then branches depending on what forces are operating in that spot said a fair way to characterize it captures the gist of it and these have gotten better and better and our brain is also neural networks the neurons connected together and it turns out that basically if you have a lot of data you can train these things to be quite good at figuring out whether the article is about golf or whether it's about immigration or or something else and that's why or immigrant golfers each article can be classified many classes so when you go through improve the news you can go. Click on any topic and you get all these topics and there's hundreds of them there so if you're really interested in golf that's how it works. That's why you only get the gulf articles then and then you can see the defense spin. The people put on golf as honestly. It's a lot more fun to look at. Controversial topics like immigration for example is lighters and see somehow differently. The same event gets covered. Yeah so this is just a form of a basically a Has become a bit of a marketing term. People always wanna call something a i if they want to sell it in kuala it machine learning if you don't wanna sound so lofty heights or lofty benton. Yeah happens is you take all the texts from all these articles. And you put them into your computer. And it's an arcade classifies them into what they're about. I happen to know separately that you are one of the world's experts and exposures of the multi-diverse and so now you've got to fess up. Did this idea come to you because you spent so much time in the multi-diverse and then you looked at the media multi and you said let me bring those two together and let me some cause and effect here on this neighbor. There is a little bit. Because i i actually did catch myself complaining to me. I my wife. The people of different political stripe seemed to have ended up in parallel universes where they don't communicate anymore and a very unhealthy. I look at how different that is from. Assigns conference right. You go to science conference and there are these people who completely disagree with you. Baby think that your idea of galaxy formation is rubbish or your interpretation of quantum mechanics is obviously stupid and they're still going to go for drinks with you and they will respect. He was a human being even though they don't think you're wrong right max. One of my most highly liked tweets was a very simple statement. Anyone who thinks scientists like agreeing with one another has never attended a scientific conference foam. Very simple point. Yes people saying well. Scientists is the establishment and. They're only protecting their cherished ideas. We have the new age model here. Then we're being repressed and it's like they have to all agree. I say no. That's not how it works. So i'm very. I hate to sound like your father. I'm proud of you for for taking scientific principles and say maybe this can spill out into society. And i think there's so much more that can be an other cause and effect thing there was you know i just have this obsession. Always looking at the bigger picture and then trying to take another step back. You look at this deal bigger patriots. Find myself in this country. I love getting more dysfunctional. I want to look at the bigger picture and say well. Why is that. You know it's not like the idea of biased. Media is new. I mean there's a here in winchester massachusetts. I live there is a plaque. This is the however the house. I resident of winchester. John converse lived and then it says underneath and he was thrown in jail for speaking disrespectfully of the king. Do you think great speech then. Of course not. i'm sure the king had some pretty good bias and spin going on the newspapers era. and what's the what's new. There's been the powerful people incentive to spin things their own way. What's new is exactly the machine. Learning stuff might. That's what's happened in recent years. Okay let's take the same technology and use it for good because tech isn't evil. You can use technology of a knife do bad things but also didn't make an awesome barbecue rights. Same machine learning let the machine learning work for the individual to see through the biasing attempts rather than leave it only to big corporations in on the manipulate. You have you tested whether users do slide. The bar to see the same news story covered multiple ways have you. Have you know done some tests. Yeah not so much yet. But i'm very very interested in its brand new right. This thing. it's it's orienting development so the most important thing actually for anyone who wants to try this is after you messed with the to the feedback form and send them suggestions for how to make it better because i have a lot of ideas and suggestions for taking other ideas from scientific truth finding in building on top of this and i'm actually very curious you you confess neil which. I was very honored to hear that you had actually wasted a lot of time yesterday. Playing with it. What do what was your reaction. Yeah yeah so no. Oh my gosh. Because as an educator. I need i want to know. I need to know how people are thinking. Otherwise i can't i have no access points to their to. What's going on in their brain. So i i would say that i relish in it but i see it as an obligation as a public educator to know what you're being said in all parts of the political spectrum then when i come to you and have a conversation. I'll have some insights into where you came from. And what what what forms of bias you might be carrying and a sensitivity like you said you. Don't call someone in idiot you you you offer ways. They might be wrong but in a polite way and generally it's hard for them to be angry back at you if you got come to them in a polite way but we're polarize and everyone digs their heels and deeper when the fight begins and nothing. Nobody gets anywhere so it just depends picking stories oh and i just just sliding back and forth. That's all. I did for a half hour. So so so the thing that strikes me here is the fact that I am looking at two men who are brilliant scientists and that most likely will Say that there there are. There is such thing as an objective truth okay What do you do with the person who comes to this place. And they are just steeped in their own confirmation bias and the only thing they're looking to do is reinforced. That the first of all. I think it's very important to go in with humility and be honest about the fact that even though many people think that we scientists prove things and know the absolute truth. That's our dirty little secret. We never prove anything inside. We disprove things right. We've spent hundreds of years. Thinking newton scurvy was the shit and then we realized oh. It's not the shit that's a little bit wrong in fact very wrong. When jenny blackhawks clear the ship was used in a good context. There you're not at well. No click clearly. Clearly max knows a couple of black people. Because that's that's a that's like joe. I'm the shit but good going with humility and actually i think a lot of the fact checking that we're seeing now in the media which is causing a lot of controversy comes from a good place create more truth but it's it's done in a very sloppy way. Which would sort of is not is not at all as careful as what we do in science because in science if it were so easy to figure out the truth that some committee for some company could just easily figure it out. We could close science. We'd be done right the whole reason. We still have sciences because it's so hard to figure out the truth and sometimes we go for a long time. Almost all scientists thinking. Oh this is the correct theory of gravity just later on the get be like we were kind of wrong about that when someone comes to me and says i don't believe what you're saying the first thing i think i wanna do is be humble and say of course i don't know for a fact either but then when can make it into more of a joint expiration if let's look at the facts then look at the together you know the both none of us going into it with axiom that the other one is wrong an idiot right now. It's a joint search for truth which is a much more healthy perspective. I think and it starts with what you said neal with trying to understand. Also where where the other person is. I would never go to a country. I've never been to before without google a little bit. I finding out about their traditions. And how they think things over there what kind. What kind of american are you. You gotta go there and say how come. You're not new. what emerge. So if. I'm going to talk to someone who believes differently. The first thing i wasn't wanna do is just understand is neil said so beautifully there like what is their world. What is it. They've been told so all right. So let's establish a landscaper so a person comes up to the app and they represent one extreme on the spectrum. Say because they're in the middle. They don't really need the app right. It's really the people who are warring factions on opposite sides of the spectrum. Can i actually interject there. I sure we people we meaning people like three of us hanging out a lot in our intellectual university. Centers centered bubbles. We can sometimes be a little bit arrogant and say assume that the problem is not at all us. It's just that all those fringe people are wrong. But we have the complete truth. I actually find it quite humbling. To think about that. Many of my varies smart as colleagues have also been very wrong when the iraq war second one was about to happen most of my colleagues quite convinced that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq. They believe that they had vetted in new york times at right and yet we now know that that was just not correct right so i think nobody should assume that the problem is only with other people we know. I'm so let me just for. The problem is not so much what the world looks like through your lens. The problem is what the point you raised at the beginning that you feel so strongly about it that you are almost militarized in your attitudes regarding it and so my only point here is you We look at the two ends of the spectrum. My question would be if i am one end of it. Will i be motivated to look at what others are saying. On the other end and the cope here the goal. And it's in its infancy. So i'd be delighted to see how this comes along is will people at least realize that. They're other perspectives out. There and maybe go out and have a beer and talk about those perspective. I certainly hope so. I stein has his great quote that i put that the greatest enemy of truth is blind belief authority right so if you talk to someone who has a very strong belief about something. It's interesting to ask. What a thirty is it that they believe in blindly and then start poking about that. That's good that's good Say okay so with that. What about identity. So what you just said there were if you have a very strong belief in authority if that authority has now grafted itself as a part of your identity for me to believe differently. I now must deny my own identity. Yeah that's the cult problem. That's that's how you soaks white so hard to get out of a cult that's very deep and we've seen that in science also if we must never get to too so emotionally attached to it to our own scientific theories that we make them part of our identity is i am a flat guy or i your centrist or whatever because then we start to become poor scientists once you once you start labeling labeling what you are then the boxers you in that's exactly right max exactly my my wife out likes to say we should keep our identity small which i think is very profound. We should not make leafs about all sorts of facts part of our let it be a flowing river that can move to in the face of evidence that emerges. That's when you're a good scientist an end this thing about einstein saying question authority you know. Firemen also use distressed that as being the core being scientists that everything that has to be open for questioning the ultimate authority had to have the question of course is their own prejudices and you look now at some of the greatest breakthroughs in science. Like einstein francis. What was it that he did better than everybody else. It wasn't that he the math. For example a special relativity was so hard that no one else can do it but he was the first person to challenge this tremendous that everybody had the time flows at the same rate for everybody you. Once he started questioning it started unraveling and before long that you had a special relativity theory right. So if einstein had to your app he even better. Max this is where we part third segment. We're gonna bring in a journalism specialist. Just think about an analyze what effect this might have on the landscape going forward. Been a delight to have you on. This is just another chapter of the many chapters that occupy your very active and fascinating brain That we were had the privilege to taffer star talk. So thanks for being on a chuck. You're gonna hang around we've got another segment coming. This is star talk. The physicist read the newspaper. We'll be right back. Time to recognize some patriots. Patrons k b. W mike ness ashley finnemore guys. Thank you for being patriotic patrons and making this show possible in the way that we bring it to you anyone who would like their very own patriotic shout. Well go to patriotdepot dot com slash star talk radio and support us impact. We're back star. Talk segment three of improving the news. And we're coming off of two segments with my friend and colleague. Max tag mark Where he had told us about a new app that he wrote fact. We interacted with on the website Improves the news. Dot org Innocent i power news aggregated where you can just slide what how conservative or liberal. You want your news to be. I thought it was a fascinating Take on what it is to aggregate news and so and chuck and i don't have particular expertise in this but we know someone who does jeff jarvis a friend of star talk. You've been on multiple times at jeff great to have you back. I miss you guys dr. Yeah so you're you. Professor of journalism at the city university of new york. You're director of the town night center for entrepreneurial journalism at the craig newmark school for journalism. So what keeps going you. The leonard have real time left to talk you. You have a name professorship. So that the trw in the tau night. You're the leonard tau professor of journalism. Gotta give to give a shout out to those who endow these chairs and you have a blog. Buzzmachine dot com and author from a few years ago. We read this here. Geeks bearing gifts imagining new futures for news while the world has changed quite a bit even since that book came out in two thousand fourteen. So say welcome back to star talk. I just want to get your take on max's new tool have you. Have you had a chance to check it out. Yeah i've had. I've had time to play with it very cool. I have two concerns. But then i'm going to be very complimentary. The first concerns. I think that we have to often put people into binary buckets right left right white black ninety nine percent one percent for against this cautious about about things that that lack the nuance that is possible online for us to be in many different communities a sandwich jeff in that in that ninety nine percent one percent we could have the eighty three percent seventeen percent and sixty four percent thirty six percent and that's nuanced. It is well but then the second problem i have. Which is that basically. There's i'll say this next to no responsible conservative media in the. Us we have one major outlet which is fox news which believe it or not and gallup is seen as the most trusted outlet in news. Why because there's one of them and all the rest of us are liberal. And i'm liberal and i think we have a lack of a decent conservative media. I actually believe as liberal media person that we should invest more in conservative media to provide competition to fox. So the problem with the app there is. It has very little to call upon this responsible before it gets to weigh in on the right. Wow having sudden. Oh wow so all it has was out there and and so. You're not blaming the app. You're blaming the world exact. That's not what you're blaming. Okay okay okay. you're being be a reflection. Jeff of who. We are as consumers. I mean isn't isn't this kind of an outworking or maybe it's like two mirrors facing one another where the outworking is. This is what i want. So this is what they do which makes me want it. Which makes them do it. Which makes me one more. So you understand yes okay so good question truck and and and it's an unanswerable. One because it's a chicken and egg question as which came first The market the created or the demand for that market. I think this can eg problem does does have an answer. You what you would of course you would. No i'm just saying that came i It was just lay by bird. That was not a chickens. So boy was that. Yes the mutation that gets you the new bird which we call a chicken. But but they'll put i'm gonna finish your comments on the improve the news so but i do think there's really important here which is in my view. The internet so far has been built to speak. And i celebrate that because we can finally here black lives matter and meet you and living while black and all these things that were not represented in mainstream mass media. Run by people who look like me old white men. So that's i celebrate that speech mentally. Yes that also brings with us q online. It's worth the price in my mind. But the internet's next the next phase of it is an internet this bill to listen and to tell us what and who were worth listening to. So that's where. Max app really impresses me because i think it starts to go to a next generation of the net worth says all right. There's all this stuff out there. Soviets bad Sold it looks the world this way over. The world looks that way. And i can help you find those things to give you a picture of the world so so back to your question shock what max does when you go to the right on his slider. Is you get an anthropological view of what my father and my uncle or seen now right on fox news and such It's worthwhile to that extent. But i don't think it's what we want to have as a picture of a world's on an accurate picture of the world. Got you so yeah. Okay no no way where wait if chuck's point if you they give you what you want and then you want what they give you. What do you mean it's not accurate. It is accurate if that's what people want and that's what we're being given well accurate about the right. I grew up in a time. Where the only choice i had was to watch a gilligan's island and kids today. May that was fun. But i can tell you it was hell invariably choices we were given and so the mass market. That whole i. The internet kills is the mass market business model mass media and with this idea of the mass. This idea that there is one public one view of the world that again. I'm not gonna cronkite one. Walter cronkite god bless him. God rest them but that was bs. That's the way the world was was the way a role was for a certain number of people who had power right right. I oh man. That's so sensor democratization of news. Ray yes. I think what was happening today. What celebrate is the fact that we can all speak a researching a book on the gutenberg era and the end of it as i go back to the early days of print. I saw that that the print was very conversational. Martin luther converse through print with pope's erasmus with thomas war and so on we lost that conversation somewhere lull available. I'm probably with steam power and mass scale and mass media. And i think what's happening today is that we are relearning as a society how to a conversation with ourselves interesting. So let me ask you this. Then how do we decipher between those. Who were report. And those who willingly up you skate for the purposes of profit i was. What are we supposed to if they don't if they're not you jeff. How supposed to know that is difficult. But that's where. I think we have the opportunity to create new services. I have a project going on now at the school which is trying to define quality and news. I also think it's responsible for us in news to start cleaning our house. We say to fight these book and twitter. Clean your house. We haven't cleaned our own. We journalists haven't stood up and said what we really think about. Fox news rupert murdoch. And it's time that we do something interesting but what about filter bubbles then women because we find ourselves in a bubble. We don't even know it actually. Actually professor The filter bubble is more of a myth than anything else. There's a wonderful book. I recommend by bruns. Who's a an academic and australia called. Our filter bubbles real his answer. No no tons of research says workbook. Well well well condensed the research that we don't just so we clear this on the same page. A filter babo is what we think it is. Where you you're only reinforced with the information you want to believe is true and you don't do anything outside. The bubble is that a fair characterization. Yes so what axel bruns dozen. His book goes through a lot of research that says the filter bubble theory and it was a theory is not borne out by how google treats us. Google doesn't give us different. Google's everybody else is not borne out by our social behavior Bush people actually. Don't get rid of uncle. Joe who's miserable rotten because he's still uncle joe and we still hear uncle. Joe's opinions were aware of them and so the filter bubble and the echo chamber. Don't really rule us. The problem becomes when we start to make those assumptions. Oh my god everybody's the filter bubble or everybody knew how media work we invent interventions. That are not necessarily appropriate. Josh tucker. who's a researcher at new york university. This great research where he looked at disinformation and said who's spreading this and is it our kids as we fear so. We must have media literacy for them. No it's grandpa's screwed up the world. It's old men who again look like me. Who were spreading the disinformation in the world. And my daughter told me exactly that. She's twenty three. She says you got the right. Not us and i said damn so what. How did things get so polarized. I don't i remembered. yes you have warring factions. of course. that's not new in politics. It just feels worse today. So what caused that media guys. The first answer we did it. We put everybody in the binary buckets and them about war with each other. We are built in our business model for attention and conflict. Not for cooperation and collaboration. But the second issue is i think we go back to the myth of walter cronkite. It was only from the fifties until about the end of the century where we had this idea of of mass media. Everybody watching the same thing before that going. Back to the beginning of newspapers and sixty five. They represented many different viewpoints betty different perspectives. It was only when tv. You guys killed newspapers that we got to this idea of the monopoly having to serve everybody and then to very. Interestingly here is the myth of objectivity right so this idea of objectivity is that. There's one view of the world a wesley lowery former washington post reporter and pulitzer prize winner. Roy not the new york times a few months ago reset objectivity is actually construct of white racism and newsrooms because it is one more time people who look like me old white men who have the power who decide what is objective and what is biased. And and so this idea that there was one of the world from walter cronkite. That was the same for everybody to serve everybody. Equally was always a myth. Wow wow okay so well okay. Bumming me out here. There's no no you you are so what you're saying is there is no such a. Let's imagine if if you will a newspaper where the first half is objectively verifiable information about the world and then the second half splits into how do you think about this objectively true information mr and mrs liberal person and mr and mrs conservative person and then you get outlooks on. What is factually agreeable. Is that not possible. I thought that was the new york times. Oh my god. I'm so deceived now. I will depress her. I don't think facts are enough. I don't think fact. Checking is enough Danah boyd whose brilliant researcher new york at data and society says that. We are in an epistemological war. If i don't like you. I don't like your experts. They're elite bike. You and i don't like your facts. I'm just gonna say things that peeve the sake of tv new that's where we are wearing an epistemological war where perhaps what we need is not so much more education in facts but were education in each other. How do we become more sympathetic. Empathetic understanding knowledgeable. Any of those about our fellow citizens situations. How do we find common rickshaws there. I reread hans origins of totalitarianism. Recently churches. read that too over books. Rain is show you all the time right next to me so she said that intelligently and regimes people tend to give up their everyday concerns for abstract concepts and so think about america right now. I don't believe that half america. I think that guns and abortion are the single most important thing their lives every day. No most important. Their lives is the welfare and safety of their families that i share with them. You share with. We all share that but media come in and prison my business and we present the world is if is in conflict about these abstract notions. And that's how the agenda of the discussion gets set and it's not very productive. Are you saying that if we were to take what is You know the ven diagram of america and we were to create more intersections where people have overlapping identities or the recognition of where their identities that that acknowledgement alone would do more to bring us together than trying to convince somebody about a particular stance on an issue. Neil would you would nominate that man for a pulitzer prize or perhaps nobel peace prize. I think actually yes. Yes chuck exactly. I think that's what we need. We need to make strangers strange. We need to take away that power of the other. We need to understand that we share more interest than we don't and media haven't done that and i don't think they give us a very accurate view of the world is result Interesting now see as a comedian. I hate everybody so now but everybody loves you. Got me all right so suppose i what i think of is a trusted source that i always go to. Don't people need a trusted source. And it's yes. It's a problem that people have different trusted sources. But are you trying to abandon the entire concept of the goto place to get the information upon which you base your worldview. No but i'm saying this place says it's plural is good because the app does expose you to other perspectives at other ways to see things. The problem is summer. good summer bad. And your definition of good and my definition of good are going to vary but that's okay because that's what a democracy is really seen through my study about the early days of print that that society is a conversation and what we have to do in media is to serve that conversation to make that conversation better yes more informed but also respectful as chuck said and also productive so we can get somewhere and actually solve problems. I if someone is a particularly vociferous racist you can't tell me. I just have to think more about where they're coming from and then i will understand their position. You are an avid certain non-starter in a conversation. Absolutely what is what to do about that. But i think what you do in that situation so the new york times tries to do this they did. They did a feature about a year ago on. Here's a racist. He goes to pereira just like you and me. He wears pants right. That normal us no good to do. I understand their circumstance right. We've got to understand where they come from so we can then see what to do now. I wonder neil is whether journalists should look more like education. Look more like your fields. Where should we say. Here's a goal. The goal is people should wear masks and they should get vaccinated and they should trust science and if they don't we've failed that does that. Make me an advocate. I'm fine with that because you're an applicant science and so should we be well. Here's another thing in science. If i'm in a debate with you about something not entirely fully known in the universe one of three things is true. either. I'm right and you're wrong. You're right an omron or we're both raw. We can't both be right and we both go into that conversation. Knowing and understanding those three possible outcomes and in almost every case is we need more data right so that we can then agree. Who's is rice and also neil and where we can still go out for a beer after. That's i to say the the difference is and went up from my observation watching you guys debate one another is that you almost want your guy who who's on the opposite side to be right if he can show you that you're wrong. You're like cool. You showed me. i'm wrong now. We can move onto the next thing whereas right now culture. That's culture right. What put the way things are now. If you so me that i'm wrong. I dig in further. And now you're a greater threat. And now you have to die you know. Just why why. We need both science and humanities. Both or key we'd education. The answer is not one course. One new app wonderful kind of news. The answer this as always damn it is education while is always good to have you on. We don't have yawn enough. I think i agree with that. We're both right here. I agree with you so so you tweeting. What what's your social media platforms here on twitter at jeff jarvis medium jeff jarvis dot medium dot com Excellent excellent so we can look for you and track your stuff and you working on a book. Maybe when the book comes out you come here first and we'll talk about it before so it's still taking a while but yes i'll come there. We hope to be around with you. All right chuck always good to have you on star. Talk always a pleasure okay. I'm neil degrasse. Tyson your personal astrophysicist. Of course keep looking up. This episode is brought to you by better help. It's important to take care of your mental health. And if you're looking for some tips on how to do just that. Here's angela kinsey and jenna fischer from the office ladies. Podcast goals aren't important. Part of the new year intentions are set and plans are in motion. But i know for me. It can be really hard to stick and meet those goals. Yeah accountability is a big thing for me. Having a place that i can check in. Go over my goals with someone that really helps me. I also get overwhelmed at the beginning of a new year. I think i sort of see the roadmap for the year. And i get a little stressed about work or i don't know i just get anxious. It's really nice to have someone to talk in those moments and better help is here to help. Better help offers. Online professional counselors can talk with a licensed online therapist and fine relief. We all need help reaching our goals. And if you're struggling with anxiety or depression better help can give you the tools you need to achieve them. It's always hard for me to ask for help. I always think i got it. I got it. 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