5 Episode results for "Anna Funder"
Tear Down This Wall: Life behind the Iron Curtain
"The fall of the Berlin Wall in November nine thousand nine hundred nine was reported almost universally as a good news story. This was fair enough. If the the ending of the imprisonment of half of Europe wasn't good news it's hard to imagine won't ease however for Eastern Europeans it marked the end of life As they knew it and all of the world as they understood it. This was doubtless a relief in many respects the iron curtain had after all been built to stop eastern Europeans from fleeing the system of dismal incompetent and oppressive police states which had been imposed upon them in this episode of the Foreign Oren disc series looking at Eastern Europe. Thirty years on we recall life behind the Iron Curtain. The personality cults of the leaders the snooping of the secret police and the rebellious subculture which deafened the neighbors and baffled. The style see this is the foreign desk. Schoolteacher would say did the the news reader have a red jacket on or blue decorate on last night in our house and that was the way of checking whether the parents in that household had been watching Western television which was illegally. Everybody was being turned by fear. Inform on other people. Many many people were very scared of saying anything in public. Were doing anything public. This is why when my father protested on ten March one thousand nine hundred eighty three most of the people in the village that he was absolutely saying that he had the courage but they thought it must have been something wrong with his head to do that because it was so dangerous they couldn't record do couldn't play live except in churches. The male wasn't secure. She couldn't send the fliers. The phones want security. Couldn't call say do the GIG so all had to be done through what they call the whisper network person to person we're doing a GIG and he told deferent- and Ephron told another friend but by eighty-three they were getting concerts in the thousands and that's really crackdown Even by the standards of Eastern Europe behind the Iron Curtain Romania under the long dictatorship of Nicolae Ceausescu was was a remarkably paranoid police. State our first guest. Common beauge grew up in Romania in the nineteen seventies in one thousand nine hundred eighty s a period she recalls Kohl's in her memoir burying the typewriter the title refers to the nightly ritual performed by her dissident father trying to keep his writing secret. Kurt from the security. I grew up in a very small village which was quite it is located from Eucharist. In general was actually quite isolated from the political situation. Most people lived in small houses. They were raising animals. They were growing their own gardens. So things were quiet self sufficient for the memo what people were self sufficient Shen in the small towns. We saw that there were big lines. Four bread for sugar or flour and things got worse worse. I think at the end that seventies and in the early eighties when I was very young. Of course I didn't notice much of the hardship because I was very young child. Doc who grew up on a farm with the grandparents life was very idyllic and very beautiful but by the time I started going to school and we started noticing the lines signs and started hearing people talk about the lack of food and then we also started experiencing longer electricity cuts. You need the The electricity would just go off so we would have to do. Homework by candlelight in the kitchen and the whole family will sort of heavily in one place where we had the candles and then candles were becoming harder to get so people would go to church on Sundays and come back with their candles rather than leaving them there. For The for the data dad the altar but nineteen eighty S. Things began to be very tough. I mean they're even for us mm-hmm so the educational system in which I grew up West created with with propaganda in mind on the one hand we lived lives that were full of hardship on the other hand at school were are being taught that everything is going on perfectly. The there is a well for freedom liberty and then there was the other question of being isolated. We are very very isolated. There was state government news about. I think two hours of television per day and then television I would just go black for the rest of the time and what we got was from the radio which was news that everything's going while Romania is the most advanced country in the world world. We are the best people in world. The Communist system is the most advanced system in the world. So it was the effort of of creating a sense of fulfillment psychological fulfillment in a country and so through which the ideology was being preserved. Why did we we know about the other countries in the world while we didn't know much about Europe because of borders were closed? Because there's all the news was being censored we learned geography we learned economy. We learned history but the history had a vase special trajectory. So you you know it was going from slavery to capitalists which is another form of slavery slavery to socialism and Communism. So one of the things we had to do was to learn. The Communist manifesto was to learn a lot about Stalin and Lenin and Marx. And have that sense that actually we are on the right side humanity now. Aqua spin to put the leader of Romania Who came in in power in one thousand nine hundred sixty five head enjoyed a very big personality cult? He was saying and everyone was presenting getting him. As the father of all children in Romania and his wife was the mother of four children in Romania. They were the people who were teaching us. Values values of equality fraternity happiness and health. And all of these things together every single classroom had a picture of Ceausescu chess school in it and we it was similar to having icons in church. I mean everybody knew he was. Everybody knew that you know you had to respect him. And there was a fascination with him as well I mean he would come in to do events and people will be pulled in with buses. One time we were taken to you a stadium because he came to give a talk and so they took everybody from all the schools from the district and everybody filled in the stadium with people. While we're all leading to chance and slogans and I just remember trying really hard to get a glimpse of him going to the helicopter which was parked in the middle of the stadium. So there was a kind of you know. Fear and the fascination of him. You couldn't say anything bad about him at the same time. We had this really weird stories about him. The gossips that went around it. Common People which were Oh my God you know. He's he's somehow draining all the wealth of the country and stuff like this. What maybe that was not the myth after all off the question of resisting allowed? Cloud of speaking one's mind allowed was a very complicated one because you knew there were people who were informing on those complained about not getting their loaf of bread with their ration card so many many people were very scared of saying anything in in public. Were doing anything public. This is why when my father protested on ten March. Nineteen eighty-three most of the people in village that he was absolutely saying that that you know he had the courage but they thought must have been something wrong with his head to do that because he was so dangerous. And the other hand you know you would see at People's People's houses you know people over dinners with their neighbors. There was a lot of sort of talking in low voices are this is horrible. This is terrible. How can we live like this because because resistance really was impossible in any organized way what people did in order to survive was trade? They traded food. You know. I'll the need your sweater. You give me some eggs. Give you some cheese. You give me some meat. This kind of trading and sort of implicit knowledge men that things were not going going well but I tell you in nineteen eighty s. There was no way for us to imagine in any way that somebody would be standing up. That would be a revolution that there will be a change of the situation so the common lore among people in my village was tried to do your best do you have. We left Romania towards the end of nineteen eighty nine at the very end of October nineteen eighty-nine nine and we could not have been prepared in any way for what we have seen. The only thing we knew. The United States was a little TV Show Dallas about the family of very colic's in the United States and it was widely entertaining for us it. Everybody wanted to be a cowboy and wanted to go to Dallas and then the other thing we knew about United States was was the all the News Voice of America. Washington DC Anti Communist Propaganda Radio Free Europe and Voice of America where United States was being presented as exactly opposite of what we were experiencing now. Everything was very confusing to us us when we arrived there. We've never seen skyscrapers. We've never seen mountains of food in supermarkets we've never seen so many appliances lighters for home in one place. It was a shocking thing WANNA landed in United States as for freedom we knew from radio a Free Europe that you can actually protest the United States without being killed and this was a very very traumatic thing for my father because he had suffered a lot for protesting in a very a peaceful way and he said you see there. People can actually express their opinion and be heard by people in power. And there's no need to go to prison. There's he's learning to be tortured for that one. We left Romania. We left in a situation at which we couldn't imagine even seeing cracks. We knew that there were there were movements around the country again from people whispering but there was no way. Okay we can we could have seen a revolution coming. We have said our goodbyes to our relatives fully aware that we will never ever see them again. We also left with death threats so we thought that maybe we'll get killed anyway by the secret police in United States states so it was sort of the leave taking was more like a funeral for our family. It was very very weird. Very strange. And Surreal in its own way and then we arrived in United States. We were in an apartment that was rented for us by Church a Protestant Church urge which sponsored us and that was strange too because we were not aware of Protestant religion. We were so so isolated where we were. We had no idea about the development of world religions for example the TV went on the DVD was donated to us by the people from the church Christmas Day. And then there's there's here's the face of Ceausescu being shot against the warm blood running from him. His wife was well. Revolution in Romania flags flowing everywhere people under streets streets banned. It was a shock. I mean it felt like we are being followed by everything and I remember. There was the church lady who came with When Setia with the flower for Christmas and she was standing in a doorway those we were shouting and crying and dancing dancing because there was a revolution crying because it was so violent and and we were very very confused about what would happen to everyone there but then at the same time it seemed seemed very ironic? Because my father had worked for this he spent twelve years in prison hoping that there would be an overthrow of the government that that things have changed. And then after all these years of prison after we've been thrown out with death threats. They were happening and we were already in the United States All the regime's behind the Iron Curtain snooped on their citizens none with greater determination the East Germany. By the time East Germany fell the Stasi had collected one hundred and eleven kilometers of files on East Germans much of of what they contained supplied by informers spying on their colleagues friends and families. Anna Funder is the author of Starchy Land True Stories. He's from behind the Berlin Wall in the home. You couldn't hide from your children for instance because in the schools you know the schoolteacher will would say to the children in the class. So did the news. Readers have a red jacket on blue decorate on last night and your house. That was a way of chicken with parents. In that household had been watching Western television which was illegal and then reporting back on them like that. So you weren't safe in your home in your school at your job in your church. Your Naptha. Everybody was being turned by fear really was regime a pyramid of fear to inform on other people but it was possibly people say the most Farah severence regime that has ever existed. I think there see I estimated that one in seven people was informing on their colleagues friends. It's families neighbors moment to come and for obvious targets deduction democratization of public festival in Berlin. You you have to imagine a place where there's no free press. There's no radio television anything and obviously long before the Internet. The only way the government's which it was a single party state could know what was going on would be to find out from it. Spies what are people thinking and doing. Is that disgruntlement anywhere and so on so it was information gathering and then it was blackmail so you could get people to inform for you and then you could control people by you know. The stories in my book are people who are excluded from education mysteriously wouldn't get into university and then even though you were straight a student and then after that equally equally mysteriously particular place of alleged full employment you wouldn't be able to get a job anywhere so lives were controlled and steered maliciously maliciously and people were punished for infractions. That they couldn't know that committed so everything and everyone was controlled. It was a paranoid state absolutely paranoid tonight. I think people felt they had a feel sometimes for who might be working for this study. So this does. He was divided into people who went off to work every day in this militaristic kind of men's Club of the Secret Service which was then anybody it could be the local hippy or poet talk drunk at the bar could also be then stoolpigeon spy reporting on you. Those people much much harder to tell people did suspect it and they were quiet about a lot of things but they had no idea the actual extent of it and I think even people who are working for the stars he had no idea idea the extent of it because only the people at the top had the overview of of the numbers of agents place. Anyway you know at the very end in demonstrations in nine hundred eighty nine. I want soar after it's a stars e memo that said it was a young fellow who'd been out among among the demonstrators and he was writing to his superiors to say look. There are so many of us. Start the agents out there eh among the demonstrators demonstrating but I think it's swelling their numbers and giving them heart to keep demonstrating against us. It was incredibly thorough. The files that the stars he took on the compatriots on everybody and anyone were opened up after this sitting and a threatened hunger strike and people naturally enough were reluctant to find out. Because what if it was your brother. Royal neighborhood looked after your cat forever and or your boss or your husband every now and again there is talk of perhaps CBS making those files no longer accessible to people perhaps they should be shot and then every time. There's this massive resurgence in applications to the Stasi file authority. See the other thing that happens when people retire. That had their life. They've raised their kids. And then they say I really want to know what happened then. I think I can handle it. So you get older people who are going into have a look this year to the ironically and rather sadly the Stasi files star she has been decided will no longer exist as an independent authority with ahead who is a statutory body and the head of that stature to body represents the the interests of the people who were spied on those files are going to be subsumed into the normal chairman Boondocks are heave the Federal Archive. I see that that is not a particularly good. Sign an unnecessary thing to do. More of the rights of people who spied on to sue the the German state for some kind of compensation is also slated to expire at the end of this year. So it's really looks a a little bit alike to some extent the celebrations which are mostly joyous of the end of that regime also coming at a time when access not the real memory and any hope of real compensation is also ending. The Berlin Wall. Couldn't keep all Western culture out. And it couldn't keep old East berliners down inspired by the music born over the wall by radio radio stations in West Berlin. A spirited and resourceful punk rock scene flourished in the city's east to more author of burning down the House that's H. Cia. US punk rock revolution and the fall of the Berlin Wall joins me to countdown his East German punk rock top five tim first of all before we stopped. Stop playing the songs. How did punk rock find? Its Way to East Germany. You could pick up western radio almost the entire country of Germany and so everybody talks about the first time they heard the pistols usually on KNBR forces radio or BBC and that was just a moment that changed people's lives. It was so different from anything that ever heard. NFL Ika switches me sore inside them. How soon did it take root the first hearings that people had of the sex pistols? So I'm guessing this is seventy six seventy seven. How quickly did jump the fence? The first punk in East Berlin was a fifteen year old. A girl who went by the name major and that was September nineteen seventy seven and within less than a year. She already had thirty five opened on her and she was labeled enemy of the state and in her case case. That led to constant attainments interrogation and despite that a senior rounder. They wait until she turned eighteen and they arrested or tried her put in jail offer year and Stacey prison and that she slept with what's called the Berlin fabled meaning that when she got out of prison they took her mmediately to a textile facility in the middle of nowhere and she was expected to work there for the next next five years. And be sort of politically rehabilitated. And would not see your family or friends. She ran away almost immediately. Back to East Berlin was rearrested put back and Stacey prison for eighteen months and then at the end of that term ex patriot. Meaning they to ship off the West Germany to Take care of problem. This first strike is called. MFS which is the determine initials for the Ministry for State Security which is the study by benkhaled nominal since from nineteen eighty to about four or five years after ground zero of companies Germany. You can kind of see how the Stasi on GonNa go for conquer. Well they also make a direct comparison between the dossier and Hitler's S S which did not overrule on an explicitly. Anti Fascist in the music was their tool that is just how they fought dictatorships of the music. Wasn't they weren't trying to be tickly. Artful I don't think it was all about the message. And whereas other activists groups had a more reformist approach let's change Environmental regulations are some of the legal system. The punks just said screw. The system was bringing down and that was a really powerful message especially for bringing you to their costs. One of the interesting things about normalises day ended ended up going to prison for almost two years for their lyrics in nineteen ninety-three and I think what happened to them. During that process shows why the scene became so important as far as being a significant it can force in the revolution. They constantly were offered to go to the West. When they're in jail the wooden really rather just go to the west and the member the kept saying no? We're GONNA stay here and fight because that was quite coleman wave dispensing with troublemakers. Wasn't yeah exactly but two punks mostly rejected that and they insisted that they can stay and fight. And I think that basically the big Goan in in a place like East Germany was what happens when you run afoul of the secret police. The Sasi and the punks did that experiment. And what they proved was in going through the jail terms going through the payments going through interogations the blacklisting from jobs in schools the conscription into army units specialising political reeducation and the fact that they came back and kept fighting. That was a game changing revelation. Because it showed that you could resist and survive and that's deal the resolve of a lot of the opposition minded people within the country in that in turn allowed the protest move out into the streets worker then snowball into the big mass protests that we know from eighty nine. Let's move along out to sean climate. At what point to divide join the revolution. They're very early. Bantu and there are unique because they come from a little farm town in the south of East Germany and end and yet they became if anything. It's not really a star type culture but there was closest star system. We're in the eastern or Pengzi. How big was it possible to get? I'm guessing terrifically it couldn't record you couldn't play except in churches and get on the radio so yeah it was very limited seen it first and everything had to be done very personally. So you couldn't do mail wasn't security consent flyers for shows. The phones weren't security. Couldn't call friends say you're doing a Gig so it all had to be done through what they call the whisper network person to person. We're doing a GIG. And he told that friend Ephron told another friend but by eighty three they were getting concerts in the thousands. And that's when the stuff you really crackdown but Shaun calm created in nineteen eighty-four after they had some the trouble with this dossier has resulted crackdown. They created the song called clue which means sort of like the tomboys the people that get beaten by the police and it has a line in there. We are the people. We are power and punks from Leipzig claim that that is the source of the chant. That became the sort of signature chant during the marches of eighty nine lexus. which was the people? The in this is a window into something else that happened. which was the Stasi recruiting informants within the sea so elephant is sort of remnants of an earlier band called on Faw And two of their singers went to Stacey detainment because although they never put it together but there was informed within the band the Sasi was constantly trying to recruit including minors so generally speaking. There's a high level of forgiveness. People were forms because for for the most part to stacy was profiling people and finding people that they could convince that they were helping the French. Basically if you work with us you keep your friends out of jail. You keep from being kicked out of school or spare limpid detainment payment and so people were doing it for what they thought was the right reasons and then there was also another layer. We mentioned before that all the concerts took place in churches. That was ostensibly a safe space. Where you you could discuss taboo topics security forces couldn't enter churches but it turned out if the wall fell that the record showed the five percent of the church employees are working for the Saudi too so surrounded by informants? The song wrong reflects this kind of too much future idea they say in it mine. Lame for plant specific Schloss millions. My life is planned out until the end. So that's sort of indicative idea you too much future moving Salaam to number four. I have heard these before. This vote. Bugs for Vaulter it. What's interesting about them? As they're indicative of the scale that the punk movement was reaching by the second half of the eighties this song from nineteen eighty seven and that same year. They toured Poland. And they were also instrumental. In conceiving this punk festival that was thrown in nineteen eighty eight thousand thousands of people they were also closely associated with a group called the church from below which despite the name was a an atheist and Arco punk organization that that was based in a church basement and Astaldi report from Nineteen eighty-eight. I think it's important to say that you don't have to take my word for it that the scene was important. In overthrowing the dictatorship the Stasi in nineteen eighty eight in a report called the church from below cashman basis for punks and they said it was the most important or the most threatening of any of the activist groups and then in January eighty nine. So listen to your from the revolution. Shouldn't they disrupt punk. Is the number one problem in East Germany. Most of the band's they realized at the time that the wall fell that the music and the message was going to have to change actually feeling bay on the night of November ninth eighty nine the night. The Wa- felt they had a permit to play show in West Berlin along with another band called the underground and while the were playing their set the audience started. I started going mad and they thought why we're doing great jobs. And and then they finished their mob end. People were telling him the welfare of the wall fell and they split up the band that night. Not only were they not in favor of unification they were actively opposed. So actually she this song the title translates as I'm looking for East Germany and because it was accorded about nine thousand nine hundred and this was a moment of disillusionment when the people who had fought the dictatorship leadership played in many cases. It really dear price. They were critics from the left and their hope was to maintain an independent East Germany and reestablish more idealistic version of socialism and and they realized that they were GONNA lose control the political process to kind of reverted back to the mode that they'd been in the nineteen eighties. They got really good at carving out space both physical and philosophical tornadoes so they were living within the boundaries of East Germany but outside society and as they lost control of the political process after the war basically went back to that mode and that was what became the basis basis of the Berlin nightlife scene. We know the member Feeling Bay specifically they participated in the squatting of chocolates which was sort of the absolute starting point for all of the Berlin nightlife debt that comes to be in the twenty first century. That's it for this episode of the the Foreign Desk. We'll be back next week with part three of this series where we will discuss foams of resistance to communism thanks to all our guests common began. Anna Anna Funder and Tim more all three have excellent books available now. This series is produced by y'all in Goffin page Reynolds and Belutti. Bill also edits the program with help hope this week from miles blossom for me Andrew Miller. Thanks very much for listening until next on goodbye.
"Thanks for downloading the podcast. Three CR is an independent community radio station based in Melbourne, Australia. We need your financial support to keep going, go to WWW dot three Seon dot org, Dora you for more information and to donate online. Now, stay tuned for your three CR podcast. Now, murder is closer to home than you think today's book Wedderburn looks at the murders in the small rural Victorian town of the sign, nine Whitman, and the author is Mary rose, Kaz, Kelly. Did I get that? So I'm curric- Kaz, Kelly, cuss Riley, interesting name think it's kind of anglicized Arshi was what. Sure. So maybe rush, welcome to three CI as the subtitle suggests of this book. This is a true tile of blood and dust. So this mur- or these murders because there's more than one actually happen. What was the scenario when it was first reported? It was that in Jemison had killed his three neighbors. One night in October, two thousand fourteen at the basis of their disagreement, apparently was the use of a dirt road and the dust that raised Ian 's property and his house was quite close to the Sturt road that even that was what's called a paper road. So it's a, it's a survey, but unpaved right away. And it was essentially for all intents and purposes, it was on his neighbor, Greg homes, property, Greg Holmes stepfather. He lived across the road. He would use that road to excess a damn. Mm-hmm. Behind Greg's house because it was very dry and he would take water from the dam us throw it to get back again for and the water would be used to water. The gardens in head asked paid not to use the ROY. That would been very dry. It was the dryest spring ever I think. And because he said it raised dust it contaminants my water, it dirties my washing. You can use another access point that will take you maybe another ten minutes stop using the road. But Peter refused and now the main had patron in that was kind of where the main conflict was and they had been friends at one stage they'd worked together. They in was a builder paid had earthmoving equipment in would often get Peter to do the groundwork for whenever he was building a shed when in house had burnt down at one stage, Peter had done the earthworks for all of that. So. So, but something had happened over the intervening years and it had come to this point where in walked out of his house one, not with a hunting knife, walked over to Greg's place and literally a few minutes later, Greg was dead. And then Ian walked home, took down to guns from his gun safe and walked across the road and killed Mary in Petah. So it was this devastating, crime and quite savage crime and over something seemingly very trivial, something very trivial indeed. So what was the appeal of writing on a subject like this? Because it's not like you're writing a novel where a crime fiction who done it, and we're, we're sort of leading towards discovering who the perpetrator is. It's open shut case in many ways. So what was the fascination for a subject like this. My fence nation really developed over time. I was actually, I had been researching the story that come to a dead end and put a lot of time into that. And so I was looking for something else to write about. And my friend windy reminded me that her father he lived in whitbourne was a good friend of ends. In fact, in had cold Wally after the mood is while he waited for police and said, can you have killed Peter and Marion, Greg? Would you come and look off to Genesee? Was his wife. And so I didn't really know what always getting into. I just thought we'll all have a chat to Wally, and but this makes it a more personal connection if it's a friend of yours and and this association. Yes. And because I heard the story, I threw Wally. He was a friend of Indians thought very highly of him and. You know, while he was an elderly man, he was in his mid eighties in was almost twenty years younger and Ian kind of looked out for Wally while he was, you know, an was a good friend Wally. So Wally was very much in ends Kona. And so when I saw when I began to research the story, that was the perspective I had that Ian was a good man who had been pushed beyond what any normal person could bear. And I suppose that was my first. So it was my first perspective and so I was interested in well, what makes good man to a bad thing, but and then what made in what was it on about that day that made this man do something so terrible. That was my beginning put. It also makes us vulnerable. If you know people who are involved in this situation, if you start writing and then sort of changed their opinions and such like it places you as a writer in a very vulnerable position. Yes. And I was aware too that it could place Wally in vulnerable position because as you can imagine an event like this is very divisive in a community. Well, especially in a small rural community where everybody knows each other. Yes, but this is the interesting thing that the nature of the people you say the protagonists were not archetypes, but complex and flawed human. Beings whose motivations were planted and who state of mind was contested by those who knew them. So you go in, we get a perception when a murder is reported and climate case close, we know who done it, et cetera. And we don't see any of the other elements associated with it by going into that rural town and investigating you're starting to see the implications, the background, you're breaking down the stereotypes, and I'm reminded of trim into parties in cold blood and NFL Anders stars eland where these individuals, these authors went into the environment and all of a sudden they started where Capote was concerned, almost found an excuse on it. That might be a bit extreme for the murders in as much as the murderers were victims of society. An Anna funder. Talk to those who were. In the Stasi, but they simply wanted to belong in some ways, though there was a justification in in some ways or a rationalization for actions. Were you expecting to find anything other or what were you looking for? I didn't expect to find. A justification for in did. I mean, I don't think you can ever justify killing three people that way. So I wasn't expecting to exonerate in or anything like that. I just was curious and about what could have driven him to these. And also it became clear that you pay to himself was quite a divisive figure in the community. You know he was, you know, he was his neighbors who I spoke to loved him, you know, but they would still describe him as a store, you know, paid a like two. He loved an argument wouldn't back down from a confrontation, but you know, he was loyal. He was intelligent will. This is the interesting thing about the profiles of these individuals that you've got. You've already started mentioning about in Jemison, and he was a stickler for detail in many. He weighs so that could have been affect in his Mike up plead a locker is fascinating because they were. Well, there's a background story was Peter and Mary. Would you care to highlight some of that? It was. It was by this second. Marriages and pita was came from, what is known in would have been is a pioneer. Family luck family had been something like seven generations. And so you know, a local, a local local, and but he had when he had begun his relationship with Mary Ann ended his first marriage that was seen by his own family as kind of disgraceful. And in fact, he wasn't in touch with any of his. Now he, there was a a lot of estrangement in that family. And I think that you know people who I spoke to said that was a source of great and continuing sadness for him. But Mary had five children and he lavished, you know, he and I became a substitute fan. We'll. Were a substitute family for him his so. They accepted him as part of their family. As far as I will concerned pita was part of it was innuendo in in some of what was. Going on there? Yes. And I think. I say later in the book that was to me, it seemed like pita had become this kind of scapegoat in the community that nothing was too terrible to ascribe to his character and. We'll let that speaks. Yeah, and impede I think because of the sort of person he was, he was not going to try and improve that impression of him. He was just going to carry on doing what he was doing and how he did it, and he would not try and grey shade himself with anybody that speaks thin also, too small communities and the attitudes and perceptions and stories they tell each other, it's almost incestuous in that regard that that the nature of the stories that are made up about people rumors that go round within a close community. And I think it also I think it will can also happen within. You know with the, you know, look, I live in Melbourne, very big city, but I have a particular community that I live in and. You know this, there are tensions and rumors and flare ups that happened, you know, in inner city Melvin as well. I mean, nothing that I witnessed as terrible as this, but you know, I think that we all have that capacity for doc nece and to what extent and that that's the fascination, because are we all capable of such a degree of darkness to to guide to such extent, to such an extent. I suspect we are. I suspect all of us are, which makes one of the reasons why we keep wanting to read this book or. Maintain and find out and work towards the end, not a, not a who done it, but we're still looking in some ways for our own psychology with a we are capable of such things, but but back to the characters, you got Gregory homes as well. These Mary son, return veteran petey instead. So and once the ensues, one of the things that also knighted me there was these these to these conflicting reports, people would would you know conflicting reports of other characters of these people like to Greg's family, his partner, he was, yes, you know, he was struggling with the aftermath of being in Afghanistan. That's terrible situations, but you know, gentle, loving, trying to get on with his life. You know, very like his partner lien said he was the most Optimus gentle caring person in her life and his family to he's rather than sisters were saying, you know, for the he was there little brother and that's how they saw him while other people in the community. Those these stories about, you know that. Great. Was a bit of a heart, not, you know he was a bit difficult to handle, but. You know, other Sidni that wasn't the case at all. So you get these very conflicting reports of people, and it's in part of the trying to reconcile those is very difficult. Like with, you know, in, you know, he was really generous to Wally. His friends entering Gordon, you know, he was generous would do anything for you. Wonderful man, a beautiful French. So what drives somebody? And we can never answer that. You've also got Mary Lockhart in there. Loves glass yet Mary a great collector, keen gardener, avid bird watcher. It's so simple. It's so mundane in many ways that then somebody with such. Simple interests could be then the victim of such an horrendous crime. It's it's extraordinarily, but then the repercussions then extend beyond the murder. And this is what happens when you go in and explore because you have that Wedderburn community. There are a few eccentric people in. Exception is one what we're describing it, but I just, you know, what I I'm continually reminded of is when you start talking to people, they. That they become either they just people and they have their in Petit diversity of interest. I mean, there's one couple nighboring coupled Jackie and poll, and Jackie's a sort of, well, what, which yoga a bit of everything? Yeah. So Jackie has you know she practices Reich, she has kind of the realm of the spiritual is very important to her. And her partner and had partner is a ex outlaw biker who adores his wife and tells a great story, but they and they, and that was very close to Peter and Mary and would just. Just devastated by what happened to them. And that was the other pita had this reputation as being kind of conservative this redneck, but yet perfectly happy to to be friends with the so-called what which, and one of the things. One of the first things you do with this book is the interview of Anna and Gordon McMahon, and the comment is he's not this man as in. They were friends within and the having great difficulty reconciling the man. They knew with the person who committed such an Arinda crime. And that speaks to many of us are there's a fear fears in as much as are we to actually truly recognize no, somebody is our judgment in question. Well, is this notion. Which entering Gordon speak of Ian snapped, and that's quite a common. You know, people use that expression a lot. You know, I just snapped. And I guess, do we all have that point where suddenly. We lose control of ourselves or is it that we lose control of ourselves or are we pushed to find this notion of? Can we be pushed beyond that? But and I guess that's what I was. That's what I struggled with as well as idea. Like Ian wasn't. You know, he had never been in trouble with the law before this wasn't. You know he wasn't someone who you know had been had been committed, you know, had been charged with violent crimes in the past. So this notion that we can be pushed to a breaking point. And I was this. I was doing. I did a little bit of research into, you know, murder and masculinity in violence and that sort of thing. And there is this notion, I think murder is masculinity is affecting in lots of murders. In this notion, this is kind of confrontational. I want to go into that the because that's very interesting because you in and. Peter, a very strong characters amidst the alpha mile type syndrome. But this notion of conquest, this notion of dominance of getting your y in such like, can we? Can we escape nature in in that regard? Because or are they victims of their makeup? Yeah, I don't know this. It's that term toxic. Masculinity, like it's almost becoming a cliche, but I and I don't know whether. I think they was something in that that there's something about this about an a medical notion of honor and respect. And some of the reading I was doing around mid was saying, you know, the most effective way. To make to push someone to violence is to insult them is to, you know, kind of low of themselves to lower themselves in their own eyes and in yours. And so I think and the more I kind of thought about, I think they might have been an element of Ian trying to regain some notion of status that that he had lost power and that he was trying to regain that somehow status in control resigned situation. But in many ways, it's an artificial perception of I've lost control of the situation will were you ever in control in the first place? It's a norm, an artificial concept for a lot of these people as well. But you also go into the notion of homicide homicide is a dynamic relationship between two or more persons caught up in a life drama where they operate in a direct interactional relationship wrote Marvin Wolfgang in his seminal nineteen fifty eight work patterns in criminal homicide. Wolfgang at criminal criminologist argued that examining the relationship between a murder murderer and his or her victim was crucial to understanding the event. So it's it's not just the psychology of the individual. It's that interaction that is toxic. If we used that word again, yes, where is if they were in another situation or if a safety valve had been released, it would have been a totally different at gum. Yeah, so it's it's quite extraordinary that that the psychological notion again, trying to look for an answer to all of this. So is this what compels the story or this book in terms of us wanting to find a rationalization because they're the members of the community are trying to rationalize. Is it about dust? What is it about. We keep constantly wanting to sort of tie the end up of the circle to Mike. All right. Is there an all right in in that outlook? Look, I don't know that we can ever say, okay, said this is this is what happened? This is what happened. If we just do this, it'll never happen again. I don't think that's possible. And in some ways I didn't. I didn't really expect it to be this easy answer because I think all of us are complex people and. On that night. That night, you know, Pete ahead in the afternoon before that night. Peter had driven up and down that that road, but there'd be no interaction between in him. Why did end up to Greg's place? I when it was Peter, he was so furious able to overcome Greg who Greg, trying competent, knifed cetera. And I think we'll let the listener read that the the description of the injuries for themselves, but Greg was younger, how was he. I have a parent and Riddick nature of of the gunshots extraordinary. I'm hell. He's another question because we've got this ripple effect a murder, but it goes beyond into the community. People reconciling trying to work out. How do you reconcile the new writer's voice in all of this. Because you never were able to interview Ian and your knowledge of the players in many ways is in direct, but also then writing a book adds to that ripple effect. It does, yes. So how do you reconcile the writer and the writer's role in taking on such ties it? It is tricky and it's something that has been. A lot of my mind as I wrote it, but more specifically once. Publication was, you know, on the horizon and I did I did and continue a little bit to struggle with it. I mean, I think. My publisher at one point. I was like, oh, what have I done in writing this book? And she was saying, these stories are important because compelling narratives, they help us to empathize. You know people, I think it is useful to remind people how live up ended by violence and tragedy, and to know that those people who are you'll get caught up, they're not Justice statistics. They are neighbors, friends, family, legitimate for a rider to enter that discourse in some ways because it's not it's real now because there was a controversy about the cover. I didn't see anything. Controversial in, but I'm an outsider, but the blue Wren, for example, on the cover and the knife and the gun and such, like what happened the well, the blue ran is a symbol of Mary. He was one of the victims in fact, and so I didn't have input into the design of the Kaaba, but I saw the cover before it went out and like you. I didn't see the potential for the distress that it might cause. But for Mary's family who. This the, the Ren with a simple for their mother. It was very jarring what was more than jarring was very distressing. And that was so. When something does go out in the public realm like that, and suddenly. You. You know, discover something that you hadn't considered. So yes. So that was I knowledge that there was a real hurt their so. It's almost out of your control because the design by the publish it's taken over. The story is now owned by somebody else. That's right. Yes. So. You get nuts. It's difficult, but at the same time, like I'm a people who have people would probably read the book would probably say that I, you know, I'm a big fan of Helen Ghana's work as well. And she often delves into this dock territory and you know she has written, you know, if if every rod ahead to I'm gonna I'm paraphrasing here obviously. But you know if every rod ahead to defend their writing, the nothing would ever get written. So I think that is a certain amount of that you can't. You know, rod is will right, and and also I think a book like this can contribute to the conversations that we are already having Inada society about toxic masculinity, which we touched on before about this kind of source of what's the source of rage that we see on our roads on social media, Renou homes. You know, how do we help people recover from trauma. So I think books like this can contribute that way. There's another element and we're gonna go to short time left, and that in many ways is the ongoing psychology of Ian, and because there's the trial that takes place in has confessed. I did it. I snapped. He is organized. Rings friends says, tie care of my wife and, and that is a fractious relationship anyway with these water broken one at cetera. But it's almost like another psychological episode because in the trial where he sort of is almost resigned, but then fights the charge and such like, how do you into that? Yes, it was actually one of the one-sided attending the court proceedings that I was completely intrigued by that question. Because when Ian I committed the mood as he called police, he said, you have done, it ought to be locked up. But then once it came to. The corporate seatings he seemed to termined to disrupt and derail it. So he changed teams of lawyers. He changed his plea appealed. He did this, try to introduce new evidence, and I. Because I can't seem to ends mind. All I could do was observe him in, and I'm trying think about what my reoccupied did something so terrible. How would I continue to live with myself? How would I continue to think of myself as you go to justify to just in order to be able to continue living admit to it, then you destroyed? Yes. And two sets just my own feeling on it that the in to accept what he had done and responsibility was in some way to destroy his own ideas himself. The book is where to burn a true tale of blood and dust. The author, Mary rose Kelly, and it's an Allen and Unwin publication, some areas. Thank you for coming in today. Thanks very much. David.
E#05 Transformer sa vie grace au developpement personnel avec Tassadit Benaoudia
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S3-01 Gavin Edwards Real-Life Stories About Tom Hanks and Bill Murray
"Welcome to Charlotte readers podcast, we're authors. Give voice to the written words. This is the show Romy Charlie authors, and those visit the quaint city and will hear them read. Their work shoulder is podcast is part of the Queen city podcast network. A collection of locally based locally produced locally focused podcasts that you can take anywhere and listen to at your own pace regretful to our season three sponsors park road books and Charlotte Mecklenburg library for helping local authors and those visit the Queen city give voice to the written words. Parker books is the oldest and only independent bookstores Charlotte with a welcoming staff ready to help you. Find your next great read the is right there in the park road shopping centre with the big blue letters. Schaumburg library services in a central connector of thriving community of readers leaders and learners with twenty locations and a twenty four hour. Online presence. The mission is to improve lives and build a strong community. This shows recorded in the well equipped podcast Ideo at AbdIn co working right here in the Bill mock community near uptown, Charlotte. It's welcome space for members who like to collaborate and be creative. You can find links information about this episode in the show notes at our website, Charlotte of podcasts dot com, but enough with the prologue, let's get to the stories. I'm your host Landis. Wade. Thank you for listening. Today's episode meet newer tasks bestselling author. Gavin Edwards focus on his two books that explore the celebrity lives and careers of Tom Hanks and Bill Murray is true. That Tom Hanks is nice guy. But has Gavin notes Hank sees summation as boring and Hank's life and career the complexity enrichment to prove it is also beloved as a star of the Dick's cream. If Hanks is the nice guy, Bill Maury is the guy everyone wants to crash their party, but he has a dark side to he's everywhere. He's random is often not on time for work and even his lawyers and agents have trouble reaching he's a ghostbuster. Are you gonna call right? We start with the section from the world. According to Tom Hanks and title, the ten commandments Tom Hanks, we spent half the show and Tom's world and the other half and bills the ten commandments of Tom Hanks, breaking news shocker, Tom Hanks. Didn't always have a sunny. Upbeat outlook on the world. Check out his POV circa one thousand nine hundred five I'm a pessimist, pure and simple. He said, I guess it's based on experience on a certain amount of wisdom that you acquire by the school of hard knocks. I always expect everything to stink the high heaven that way you don't get disappointed fast forward sixteen years and ask Hanks, he's an optimist shamelessly. So this is answer. Let's late. That's very good things happen to Tom. Hanks those intervening years not only did is up and down movie career go up and then up and then up some more. He went from the throws of miserable divorce to domestic bliss, but for most people pessimism isn't easily dislodged. No matter how much good news comes along and a psychological study lottery winners and people who are rendered paraplegic by car crashes proved to be roughly as happy as one another the likely culprit is heat on adaptation me that human beings will get used to just about anything and soon returned their usual baseline level, daily joy and really. Serie? Tom Hanks, however, given overwhelming affirmation life was going. Well, learn to embrace the good news asked. He was happy. He replied, it's a choice. I make. Yes. Astonished by how joy had overtaken him. He said, I apologize to my friends and family because I say it all the time. But if you told me in nineteen sixty six when he was ten years old IBM actor and make movies. I would have thought that you were insane. If you told me in nineteen sixty six I'd be married and have four great kids. I could never have imagined. It the personal is the political in many ways, including temperament hangs continued. I look at the United States of America now underneath the stars and stripes banner and all the hokey stuff that goes along with it. And despite the problems, we have and the constant strife we go through. I think we are undeniably at a better place as a country as a people than we've ever been it's because of who we are. Life is complicated. Lasts are simultaneously half. Full and half empty optimists. And pessimists will always have a wide range of evidence that can reinforce either point of view weeks after hang said that terrorists hijacked, four planes and crashed them into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center, killing thousands of people the strife in the USA showed no signs of reducing in good times and bad. If you ask Tom Hanks to summarize philosophy. This is how he doesn't life is one thing after another. Sometimes he says that with exasperation like at the end of bad day when a woman elevator asked him how it felt to be on top of the world. And he replied, luckily life is just one damn thing. After another no matter where you live. Sometimes he says as an expression of joy like when he summarizes marriage to read a Wilson thus. We knew it was going to be one damn thing after another. But there were all good damn things. But most often hang says as. Knowledgeable of the vicissitudes and cross-currents of human existence. He describes life as something. Good jammed right next to something bad. That's followed by something. Good. That's followed by two things that are bad as fall by seven things that are good. That's all by something. That's bad. It is one damn thing after another which is actually wonderful, and it's constant variety. How does any human being make sense of that constant clamor in chaos which adds up two weeks years and eventually life Hanks figured out what worked for him? And then resolutely applied those principles to his daily existence. He's not descending. The mountain with ten commandments on stone tablets full of interdictions and prohibitions for the rest of the human race. But by steadying, the choices he's made we can learn from his hard won wisdom. These commandments are one of the most admired people in the world has chosen to govern the unruly abundance of his own life following the mall, turn you into Tom Hanks. But if you follow his example, you might find yourself leading better life with more joy, more good news more. Meaning let hangs predict your future. It's still going to be one thing after another some of them so horrible that you weep for all humanity. But then others so magnificent beautiful that you'll say well. I'm gonna keep going because that's possible. This is the New York Times bestselling author of ten books, including the towel Bill Murray and the world according to Tom Hanks is the editor of the beautiful book of exquisite corpses. Edwards post is first book of misheard lyrics, nineteen ninety-five titled skews me while I kissed. This guy was published by touchstone books, and he's written about many celebrities named journalism. He entered a demolition derby played Skibo. Kristen Bill participated in the world's largest tomato longtime contributor to Rolling Stone. He's written for details. Billboard the New York Times you visit Charlotte North Carolina with his wife and the two chill. Gavin. Welcome to the show. Thank you, very Landes. Yeah. So how does a New York Times bestselling author end up in Charlotte, North Carolina. He is married to curator who comes here for a job. And you've been all over the place. You've been in New York you've been in LA, right? And I spent a year in London, which is twenty years ago. Now, I realized the other day of oh one did changes since that. I don't wanna medically know my way around town anymore understand you get you have dual citizenship. Did you born to British parents in New York City? Dual citizenship with the UK is becoming less useful as they seem determined to blow their foot off with Brexit. So so Johnny difference writing in Charlotte, North Carolina, then writing in New York or LA or the writing is pretty much the same that sort of you have to sit down for my table or the computer and put together a sentence and another sentence sentence until you're there what was different in sale. A was I would get phone calls from Zine with things. Like, hey, would you like to go have lunch with Melissa McCarthy on Thursday? Yeah. Okay. We can do that. Coachella next week in the car and go cover that. So I don't get those calls so much anymore. We don't have as many movie stars around. Yeah. Well, you have started your writing with music, right? Yes. And I think you wrote of the many books that you've written you wrote some of your early work was about lyrics. The people got wrong is like the first or mon- degrees the technical term miserable Eric's. The first book was called skews me while I kiss this guy. So what is one of your favorite lyrics that people didn't understand? The beatles. Instead of the girl with kaleidoscope is the girl with colitis goes by. Okay. Well, I had you know, that that song joy to the world, which they they sing in church around this. There was a member of the church grew up thinking when they get to rock hills and plains there were talking about his hometown of rock. Yeah. And then and then my wife was binding this morning because we're talking about this. We're going, you know, Mitch and this. She said, you know, she had a student one town says we're gonna do the Dondra song this morning the dodger song. Yeah. You know, where the dawn's early light the dodgers? So so how did you get four books out of that? I mean, I'm so it wasn't just like here's all those songs. I misheard. My like, I did it originally as an article at details magazine, and then just like letter start to come in it struck this deal. Be too. And so I did a book, and it was a hit. And I got it PO box. This is how long ago was it was not an Email address. It was a PO box. And I had just huge cardboard boxes. Like what a great thing for. Right. Are all the tears just coming to you and your. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so my name's on those books, but really I added them. Yeah. Yeah. Other people's work to you've written about celebrities for while. You did river Phoenix, right? Yes. Retha franklin. Yeah. Articles about her. I wrote a article about Aretha Franklin after she died. Yes. And of course, the the books are gonna be talking about today. Tom Hanks and Bill Murray what drew you to writing about? Celebrities. Are you one of these people magazine people, do you watch entertainment tonight? I mean what drew you to? I mean, I came to through music. I was just I was the guy in high school who is like album. I've never heard of. And here's the side. And the only, you know about the like this band. Let's sit down and analyze their lyrics burn out. And then the more I got into that. I serve got curious about serve how it functioned in our society. So it's the music doesn't exist in isolation. There's a cultural context and part of the context is image making videos out and covers part of it is just the power of celebrity like how do we respond Aretha Franklin? It's not just that. She has the greatest voice of the twentieth century. But it's like the figure she occupies. And like how we think of our. And then once you start doing that it's only like one step sideways to same. What about like actors? What about other famous people people who are like artists public? And so you figured Nick Lansing or you need to write about and Bill Murray. When his gig was I did a Rolling Stone article on him, and it was just fascinated by all those stories of you know, like Bill Murray crashes your party. We're gonna talk about Bill Murray crashing parties before the episodes over. Okay. So let's talk about the structure these books for second Hanks and and Murray you get the world, according to Tom Hanks, the life, the obsessions good deeds of America's most decent guy. And also the towel Bill Murray real life stories of joy, enlightenment and party crashing and their similarities in the way, you structure them. You have a sort of introduction back story that each of them. But then you work, I suppose, the the the magic of the book is you sort of try to figure out what what what makes these people tick. Right. You're you. Call them the ten commandments for for Tom, and you call them the what the principles for. And if the in the third part of the book, you get through all the movies this information, how did you come up with that structure? So it was. I sometimes called them sideways biographies because I started with Bill, and I didn't want to just do the then in nineteen eighty two made this movie like you've read these doorstop biographies where takes a couple of chapters of let's talk about when the grandfather came over from Scotland guts and the Old Testament, exactly. Eventually you get to the stuff that you care about. But it feels drowned and all the material and a special an each case. I wanted I feel like you want to know what makes these guys tick and the like doing it step by step wasn't gonna take you there that there booth people who and this form it doesn't work for everybody. And I deserve after the Bill book worked I had to take a step back and say does it work for wine does it work. And who else does it work for and the answer? Is it works for people who have a have a philosophy and visibly live it out in public as always think of somebody like Kevin bacon seems like a decent guy. He's sort of got a big body of word. You know? I'm sure I would enjoy having lunch with him. But he's just a working actor. I don't think he actually sort of like stands for anything beyond that. Whereas our Tom Hanks is very clear principles lives by that. He wants to a spouse and Bill showing us, Dave. Day. Here's the crazy things. I did. So so in in making these books, did you have access it looks like he had more access to Bill Murray? Then you had to Tom hikes. I got to interview Bill bits at a film festival Toronto. And it wasn't a lot of time. But it was just enough where I could ask him the the crucial questions. Lucky to tell the story about trying to get access to Tom Hanks because I've read his book short stories in which everyone of the shore stories has typewriter in it. Okay. And he has many typewriters the on the he he's gotten rid of a bunch of them. But it's peak. I think it was over three hundred zero his fetishes typewriters. Okay. And so you gotta typewriter right? So I figure you pay respect the man like really cares about typewriters. So I got his the address of sort of office and his assistant, and I said gonna win a letter. I should write it on. I haven't had. So where where do you find? Where do you find the public library? They still have typewriters still go to your local library, the, you know, sort of up in the computer room there is one typewriter in the corner. But you know, there's no I don't have liquid paper. Correct. Type. And you get used to be a pretty good that little white out. And when I have it. So I just kept on. After twenty years of the backspace key. You don't know where it is certain point. You're just like no that's burn around the eighth. One electric typewriter wasn't electric case. She didn't get to hear the bell rang. Says finally tactile. Okay. And so I and I got typed letter back, and it was a little bit passive aggressive. But it was so delightful like you can be mad at the guy's like, oh, here's this letter where I asked him for time. And he said I could give you an hour like eighteen months from now that's the Hollywood way of say not going to do. Not going to do. But the thing that Tom Hanks did do which I genuinely appreciate it was every single person that I got in touch with who said, oh, I don't know if I should talk to you. Let me check with Tom. I when they went and checked he always said short, the guy seems okay, you can go ahead. And so that's how you get the stories in the information brightening. Okay. So in this first reading that you did at the top of the show. Hank sounds a bit like a philosopher one damn thing after another no matter where you live. Right. So have you found in in writing about and following celebrities that that fame and money don't make people necessarily any more happier than? Than others except for the of course, having fame in the money. Lying about this. He says if you think you want to be rich and famous rich. That's actually anyone that would be better than famous that way. You don't get a cost it every time you go into the convenience store. Okay. Just a little bit about Tom Hanks, the guy could you do cover this sort of a brief history to Academy Awards right back to back. And I mean, I was looking at the list of movies, and it's really kind of amazing his breakout. Movie was splash, right? Nineteen eighty-four. Do you have a favorite movie that Tom Hanks made? The one that jumps into my head is castaway castaway cay. Well. But he starts out splash. And I'm leaving out some of these big league of their own. No crime baseball stuff is the big turning point is so he makes a decade worth of Hollywood comedies and some of them are better than others. But you know, there's sort of link money pet and Turner and hooch. Like on the comedy assembly line. And he started out in doing comedy TV. Right. He was in. I don't remember the TV show bosom, buddy. I read a better in the book, which I watched when I was a kid so and then it's like, hey, this guy on this lexicon. My like is becoming star. But he went into agents and said, I don't want any more that you know, sort of like these roles have nothing to say about my life. You know, they're like Dr fischel like the he could tell just kind of spinning wheels. Instead, you just get the, you know, like, I don't wanna be a guy who's having trouble falling in love, and my car doesn't work in a funny way. And so I can't get to work and just like he'd just cleared his desk and then party wanted to start coming in. Yeah. And then sleepless in Seattle and Philadelphia for which he got a academy, and then Forrest Gump. Oh, I mean did that chain? I mean, it was it was that the movie or is it in Apollo thirteen. Fall of that. I mean, he end his golden decade and toy stories. Right there. And then I liked this movie. That thing you do. He actually produced that and directed directed it and his wife was in the movie to read Wilson. Yeah. Then saving private Ryan and you've gotten ill the green mile. You mentioned castaway catch me if you can the polar express Davinci code so and recently the post right, and I left out probably he's made fifty plus movies. How did he do that? I mean. Almost not enough time in the day. So he made three or four year at the beginning. There was just which was both him trying to get his career jump started and his first marriage was not a happy one. And so he was like happy to have like got him out of the house. And so just worked really doggedly for awhile and two marriages for children. He's the third of four children himself, his his parents, divorced when he was ten, and I think he talking book about how the kids kind of raise themselves, right? They went from place to place to place. His dad was a cook. And they would move around from town to town, and he was always sort of like at the kitchen of whatever restaurant he was working at so said, they were kind of like the wolf children of northern California, and he kinda fallen acting. He was did some acting in high school, and then he did the Shakespeare festival the great like Shakespeare festival three years running. It was kind of the ringleader there sorta. So he, you know, he enjoyed the drama club in high school. But it kind of put it aside. So he's a young man. He's a drift. He's at community college. Edge is really not sure what he's going to do with his life runs into a high school friend. Who says what are you? What show? You Tom's will nothing the friend legitimates. Shame on you. And this guy, you know, kind of like guilts him into saying you should be doing plays, which seems ludicrously over the top except the friend was right. The guy was Tom Hanks turned out like that wasn't fact is destiny, so why do you like castaway better than all these other? I mean, well for he was only one in the movie when he and the soccer ball, volleyball volleyball. He so there's this toward a force in the middle of it, which I find, you know, it's mostly wordless. And it's really as a stunt. It's kind of amazing, but it's also really impressive and emotional storytelling. But what makes it the movie for me is that that's almost like you could serve do that. He gets off the island roll credits. And that's the end except it's not. And so takes it to. A higher level for me. It's him coming home to civilization and dealing with the consequences. Like Helen hunt who he loves his gone on in married somebody else and has a baby that I'm always a sucker for stories where you feel like the stories complete. But then there's like a whole weather like emotional dramatic level to it which is out today. Do you have at least favorite movie? The money pit, maybe something something. I'm not crazy about the money. What are? It would be one of the early comedies. I'm sure let's see the burbs is not good. Let's say the burbs in verbs. Well, let's has its partisans. But I'm not one of them. Let's get back to the ten commandments for second. I don't think I think it'd be helpful won't type with a second. Can you just read the ten commandments? So happy to read them. The first commandment excel at your life's work the second commandment honor the sacrifices your elders made in the service of seemingly impossible goal. The third commandment embrace your passions. The fourth. Commandment treat women with respect the fifth commandment worship in the church of baseball. The sixth commandment use the right tool for the job, the seventh commandment don't dwell on the road. Not taken the eighth commandment. Remember that? Shakespeare, we'll tell you the truth, the ninth commandment value, your friends, but except your loneliness and the tenth commandment stand up for what you believe good concept to live your life. They are. And so, of course, aren't things they just sort of like drops into conversation with people, but you so it's me looking through will what does he care about? What does he spend the hours and years of his life? And so like, the second commandment was about honoring your elders and sort of the impossible goals, they pulled off and that chapter is about, you know, like be spent a lot of his life fascinated with both the space program and American World War Two, and they're similar the enterprises were, you know, people take on this huge the project. That you know, like seems impossible but pull it off, and you know, he's immersed himself. He's made movies about both of them. He's meetings spiel miniseries about both of them. He's become sort of like the poster boy for each of them. Right. And so like saying aren't well, why is that what why does he care about? And what we learned from that. And you flesh these out in the book, you take each of these commandments. And then you give us some life experiences that that he lived to to demonstrate that. And so we're gonna we're gonna go into the third commandment for minute, just embrace your passions. And in addition to Star Trek, apparently, he's passionate about that surfing Randy Newman blasting caps. He also is a big fan of reading. So you'll pick up there. And I thought that would be of local interests reading podcast as one of America's most beloved popular historians, David McCullough was frequently approached by people who wanted to option his books for movies. You grew accustomed to the glad-handing rituals of Hollywood. And he knew the script. They usually followed first producer. We'll tell him how much he loved one of. His books, but call it with thank him on gauge him in conversation at which point it would become abundantly clear that the producer hadn't actually read the book. So when McCullough greets of meat, Tom, Hanks diner and some Valley, Idaho, home to the Sun Valley film festival. He had low expectations Hanks told him how much he loved John Adams one of two McCullough presidential biographies. They've been warded Pulitzer prize. Oh, yeah. Here we go McCullough thought, then however Hanks fished out his own copy of John Adams wealth thumbed full of posted sticking out, the sides McCullough said he opened it to various pages and not only had he read it. He had underlined it and made margin notes. And he wanted to go through it asked me various scenes where important McCullough granted an option on the book to Hank's the resulting miniseries produced by play tone Hanks's production company, starring Paul Giamatti. Laura Linney aired on HBO, and when so many Emmys couldn't go through the twelve awards or. Fewer line at the supermarket. Hanks was veracious reader in our modern world that made him not just an unusual movie star, but unusual American, but when he got interested in a topic, you want to learn as much about it as he could sometimes that curiosity meant that he plowed through tire book about the history of cod or the history of the potato two books that together told the story officiant ships. I could go to each and say the most important thing ever pulled out the ground is a potato. I see a six hour miniseries. And I bet you could get at least a couple of scripts written. He joked, I'm such a dope. I can be intrigued by anything, but it wasn't reading because he was always looking for his next miniseries. Those projects naturally emerged from his book fueled obsessions. Hank said some of the best vacations. I've had have just been in tent up in the mountains. With a book is reading lists skew towards history and science fiction. Authors named as particular favorites. Include Anna funder, John Hershey, James Baldwin, Maeve binchy Sarah foul, it a Cal Hoon Bill. Bryson Dave Eggers Allen, I Philip Kerr a more towels and John scally. Scalise said that being publicly name checked by Hanks didn't seem to have any significant impact on a sales quote. But it made my editor publisher and mom happy, which is nice five books Hanks, particularly recommended number one the aspirin age nineteen nineteen to nineteen forty one a compendium of twenty two s as edited by Isabel eight collection of stories about events personalities between nineteen nineteen of the war. You read the forgotten men of her side, you just see politics nutshell, number two stone her by John Williams. It's simply an awful about a guy who goes to college and becomes a teacher. But it's one of the most fascinating things that you've ever come across number three davita heart behind potok. He weaves glamorous world out of these settings and the family superstructures and out of the social era almost always painfully painfully sad number four a world that only by fire. William manchester. You learn so much not just about the dark ages. But all the stuff that puts it into purely human terms, number five sapiens. A brief history of humankind by Yuval Noah Harari that fellow connected. An awful lot of dots network. I thought the book would be dense read a slog with a struggle for my brain on every page. I had a highlighter ready to Mark. The more payment thick paragraphs. I'd have to go back and re ponder instead flew through like it was a nonfiction thornbirds. Does that mean him getting smarter? Hanks with the kind of guy who said I went on a reading rampage. This was inaccurate only in that it implied. There were times when he wasn't devouring a book he kept his book stacked up three columns each six or eight books high a mountain that he was perpetually wearing down one volume at a time. When someone tells me, they finally read a book never crack, I take a wack out of a sense of challenge. That's how I finally read Moby Dick, the book, everyone pretends to know, he bragged in two thousand eleven I finally made it from Colmey Ishmail to it was the devious cruising Rachel than in her retracing. Search after her missing children only found another orphan. Okay. So we marvel at how many movies he can make an a year and yet he's reading. I have a hard enough time reading all the books for the people. I'm gonna have on the show here and doing other things as well and his mic movies in the process, some people. I mean, I'm gonna assume is a fast reader, I interviewed this Stephen Colbert back in the day when he was starting to show, and I smoked with to him and John Stewart about each other. And they both said they both really read the books someone's on the show they actually sit down and do they don't fix their way through it. One of the things we kind of luted to at the beginning before shift to Bill Murray. Here is this nice guy syndrome and the deal with that in the beginning of the book that everybody just you know, he's just such a nice cat. And he himself wasn't as if he was. Disappointed. He might have been disappointing. His his thought was and you quoted and then here is just boring. There's more to me than just being a nice guy. It's reductive, you know, sort of nobody wants to be known only for being a nice guy. He doesn't want to be a jerk. He's hoping that serve you'll find more to and then that kind of like in high school, and you're trying to figure out why they didn't date you. He's such a nice guy. Whatever. What are the things is so many people to send to me like when I haven't been to this. Oh, he seems like a nice guy realized for a lot of people that that's the wall that's end and saying well, why I wrote something called the nice manifesto where the opening lines of the book are actually. Tom Hanks's are really nice guy. Hey, wait. Where are you going? So and you're probably getting that feedback because in those books there has to be a little bit of conflict right to be a little bit of something that will draw people in. I mean, it's it's not exciting just to read about. The plane right ordinary, right. And the nice. So what is it about Tom Hanks that drew you to him besides his celebrity? Well, I thought it's the fascination of the mega star whose unexamined the, you know, he's arguably one of the most famous people in the world, but you know, sort of like people say nice guy, and that's the end of it that and it was fascinating for me as I went into it like things that you mentioned that sort of like you had this really troubled childhood where his parents were divorced. He was kind of raising himself and what kind of person like forms that. And what is like the mental landscape that makes it possible for them to become like who they are like, you know, you don't stumble into that. You've got to be driven to do it. So I want like debris. All right. Well, when we come back, we're going to go from the nice guy to to the guy that everyone wants to crash their party. So stay with us when come back. We're going to do Bill Murray and also our author segment see in a minute listeners would just over thirty episodes in Charlotte russe podcast Lofton, October two thousand eighteen the weakness schedule, but this Friday may tenth we're going to be doing something a little different. We're going to be having a laugh podcast with help of the quaint city podcast network, which would be part of the shout vessel uptown. Charlotte could be one PM Friday at KoKo in the director in the Marriott. Kathy is would be our guest author. She'll read a talk about her book hunter story hun battling chronic homelessness in Charlotte. It's great store come on out and watch the podcast. You can do. So might even win a book it will run from one to two o'clock this Friday up see their four lead the spot. I'm express my gratitude to our sponsors Porco books and Charlton laboratory for helping local authors and those visit the Queen city give voice to their written words and says the three they understand the vais that reading has for healthy and rich in life. Will it's pretty hard to be rated with that writers, which is why they're supporting spotlighting authors. And their work is good for the community. Now, one more thing, Charlotte. Podcast is a member of the twin city podcast network powered by Ortho. Carolina. For more information, go to Queen city podcast network dot com. All right. We're back with Gavin Edwards the author of the world, according to Tom Hanks in the towel Bill Murray and many other books including books that where people got the lyrics. Wrong songs Gavin. I'm looking at the towel Bill Murray. He's got the smart. This is the paperback, but he's got a little smirk on his face. That's kind of dick of maybe how he looked in groundhog day. When you got up in the morning. Beaten down after we've got. True. Yeah. You're thinking more like stripe site. That's that is more stripes luck. Yeah. Kind of training you doing, sir. Army training. So Bill Murray can be more upset from Tom Hanks, I suppose, but then before we get through I'm going to talk about possibly some similarities between the principles here. But probably the best way to do. This just have you start off reading from introduction of the book, which will give us a good feel for for this for this fella and how he behaves public. You're standing on the corner. New York City waiting to cross the street lost in thought you aren't paying much attention to the world around. You suddenly a man puts his hands over your eyes and says guests who nobody's played this game with us since elementary school would be quite alarming except that the voices familiar. You can't quite place the speaker. But you pretty sure he's a friend. You whip around and see much jeer surprise international film star Bill Murray, he's taller than you expected. Wrinkled you sputter groping for words. Unable to process the unlikelihood of the situation. Bill, grins leans in close and quietly says, no one will ever do leave you. Very on this story began to circulate widely around two thousand and ten sometimes it happened in New York sometimes in Austin, Texas, Charleston, South Carolina, sometimes Bill wasn't blindfolding people with this fingers. Instead, he was stealing a French fry off somebody's plate or grabbing a handful of popcorn from a stranger to movie theater. But the punchline was always the same underscoring that this encounter was no rupture of surrealism on otherwise ordinary day meant to be enjoyed for few flickering moments. No one will ever believe you for years. It was unclear whether this was something the Bill Murray actually did as part of a personal campaign to make the world better otter place, whether it was an urban legend that had grown large enough to have its own zip code asked point blank about it in a magazine interview. Bill artfully managed not to unravel the mystery. I've heard about that from a lot of people. He said a lot of people. I don't know what to say this probably really appropriate thing to say something exactly just perfectly right? Bill considered the rhetorical tight rope. He was walking and then he smiled but by God. It sounds crazy doesn't it just crazy and unlikely an unusual. The seventies and eighties. Bill starting comedy blockbusters such as Ghostbusters Caddyshack. Groundhog day justices success is wise cracking film star seemed to be dwindling. He reinvented himself with rival world-weary performances in much-lauded movies like Rushmore and Boston translation in recent years. However is famous seemed almost completely disconnected from his accomplishments as an actor Bill Murray. According to popular belief has become the man who will drop by your bachelor party to give a toast, come here assistance when you're having engine. Trouble crash your party and then wash the dishes one minute you might be walking around your hometown with your fiancee taking engagement photos. The next minute. Bill Murray could be standing in front of you with shirt over his head rubbing his belly. If Bill Murray makes a surprise appearance in your own life. You know that no one will ever believe you. So did Bill Murray ever make a surprise appearance in your life? Gavin not. No, the closest I had to the Bill Mery full-on experience was not that. He parachuted in parachuted out, but it was another aspect of him. Which is that because he value spontaneity above all. As someone who knows him says he doesn't even by round trip the plane tickets like go somewhere, and he's a one-way ticket. And then when you come home you buys another one way ticket comes out. And so he has this point in his life. He has no agent. He has no manager. He has no publicist. The of what he does have. If you're trying to get him to be in your movie is he has a one eight hundred number. So you talked about this in the book. It was fascinating. People would try to get a hold of him through his lawyer. And the lawyer would say when what number you call and say, I'm calling this eight hundred and he says, well, that's the same one. I have. So good luck. Call and you can leave a pitch and baby. He listens to it. You don't know. But you know, one of my favorite bills was when when they got on him. He was doing a moving this. And you've got to have somebody you got to have a handler some kind, and so he insisted yes and assistant so that we can get in touch with you through your system. So he hired a deaf assistant. That was that was actually groundhog day groundhog, which was it was the glorious. You know, like, I'm not going to make communication easier. Like comedy within comedy, right? He's hearing the whole his life. What you know, you're talking about the spontaneity. There's a section in the book where you have these little asides one is sign your name, and he gets approach to all the time to sound autograph. So you know in this one time he signs, Molly Cyrus. Yeah. And a little boy approaches him in and he signs it afternoon. His name Sydney run away from home tonight. And then he signed his name with the message merry Christmas in July, and then Assan wants to to skinny boy says maybe lose a little white, but signed John decide Jim Belushi. It seems like he's he's always doing sort of an improv even real life. Right. Yeah. And so that's really sort of you know, like, you know, sort of talk about the all math stations of it. But the core thing is that like he's approaching life is not particularly for improv, and he wants to sort of like jolt people out of the routine the world is a stage. Right. The world is sleep sleepwalking through life. And so he sees people doing that. And like, hey. Let's play. And so, and he said I'd hope that people would do that for me like, you know, sort of like, I know I have days were I'm on autopilot. And I'm not thinking about it sort of something that makes you like be alive in that moment story in there's so many stories. I don't know how you found all these stories, but he's he's in a cab. And he's talking the cabdriver finds out a cabdriver plays the saxophone. And so he says in but he says I don't have enough time to practice. Bill says one out of drive and he says get in the back seat, and he drives the camp the practices snacks. Right. And then like takes them to like an all night barbecue place. Don't worry about you got the horn. We're gonna be fine. But the answer is so some of these stories, you know, sort of like have emerged over the years like, you know, sort of people work with him talk about your views. And I found it as I was doing the book that just they were just out there all over the place. I would ask friends. Do you have anybody who has Bill Murray story? Oh, yeah. I like, you know, talk Charlie like he met him once and then would just come in. And I could research just like places he and then go online, and I would find people sort of like, I tracked down a guy who's playing piano for him in a hotel bar and Rhode Island and like Bill joined they sang songs until four AM cable buoyant where I had a hand in the book because you know, that day, right, right? But I knew that like if I had like another two weeks, I would've come. With three other stories like I had a lead on something. That's not in the book where you know, he sort of like crashed wedding in Hawaii semi officiated. Like on a golf course. And I I knew it happened. I just didn't have enough details to write about it and serve. All right. Well, this is the one that didn't quite make it. Well, let's just little quick about him in his life because you cover this in here was he always funny, and he he was the fifth of nine children older, brother, Brian. Doyle Murray was also a comedian. He was always funny. But I don't think the families thought he was the funniest one family. It was one of those things where everyone at the dinner table competing for like dad's attention and trying to make them laugh knows a his family or Hanks family. His sister was going to be a nun. That's bills family Bill and his brothers. Went one time where she was too like, Nancy. She's in the monastery or whatever not arri, and they're trying to get her to leave and come on, you know, called the white sheep family a white. She family. She actually did become like, okay. All right. So he he's in a big family. He goes to school. I found this interesting as a pre med major. But he rarely attended class party the lot. It's twentieth. Birthday. He got arrested in here with five bricks of weed on him. Yes. Right. Because he got frustrated when the held him up, and so I'll just blow this place up. And then you realize oh, they're gonna search me. Some level. That's like him say I want to get out of this business. And then it drifted for while landscaping survey hauling concrete blocks, and then he followed his brother to second city comedy club in Chicago, and the people that he got on stage with I mean, John candy, John Belushi herald Ramos Gilda Radner, I mean that tells you this was just a right time period. Yeah. And this is the place where they all were like both like in Chicago and Toronto that has like it was the breeding ground for the whole generation of comedians, and he did a couple of characters there. Carl spac ller in the second city, which later became that's ration- for the groundskeeper Caddyshack. Yeah. And the Nick Lansing her which later went to write seeds of both of those same eventually sign it live and make the movies. And then he's got again. I guess do you have a favorite Bill Murray movie? There's I'm going to say lost in translation, I mean like I love of the early comedies. But the ones that really speak more deeply to me are sort of like the rueful like older characters like the Wes Anderson movies are great surprise that. He was able to do dramatic versus comedy. Like he had done the razor's edge around the same time. It's Ghostbusters, and it's not a disaster. But it's not great. You don't look at it and say, this is a guy who's going to sort of like. It's like one of our better traumatic actors in these really like he had another gear it turned up. Let's turn to the ten principles for second. These aren't quite as clear as the ones for maybe not quite as concrete, I suppose as the ones for Tom Hanks. You've got there is a certain amount of I've got all these amazing stories. I'm wanting you wanna share these stories, let's make them work. Victory this ten right quick. All right. The first principle. Objects are oppa -tunities the second principle surprises. Golden randomness is lobster. The third principle. Invite yourself to the party fourth principle. Make sure everybody else is invited to the party the fifth. Principle music makes the people come together the sixth principal drop choline on the world, the seventh principle be persistent. Be persistent be persistent, the eighth principal know, your pleasures and their parameters the ninth principle your spirit will follow your body the tenth principle while the earth. Spins make yourself useful. Okay. So we're just gonna have to read the book to find out what these main. Well, some of the concede are actually well objects fraternities, I mean, so that's you might not realize that that in that chapter. We're in that principle you start out with a story about the golf cart in Scandinavia. Right. He steals a golf car driving around the late at night in any gets arrested and has to give a d you. He he declines citing American legislation. And. Anyone visibly drunk, and it turned out that he had only point three percent, which is way below the general Merican d USA under. But apparently, stricter Scandinavia's point two percent had to pay fine. He says well for having any amount of alcohol and having golf court you have to pay something. It's just a courtesy. I guess so what do you find a story like that that one he told himself? But there was that was a combination of he some of the details come from him being on David Letterman and talking about it. And just it was in the news like sort of like he gets arrested. It's a matter of public record. The next story is dot him stealing rug like on tour with second city. I remember I got that from like a history of second city like he's at some college deans, house steals, Rog and half. Like, go back and return. It says like an animal house thing. Which he wasn't in. All right. Well, let's let's give the listeners an idea what these chapters is like our with the tenth principle. So this is the beginning of the tenth principle, which is while the earth, spins make yourself useful. In October two thousand six Bill Murray participate in celebrity tournament at the legendary Saint Andrews links golf course playing alongside Michael Douglas, Hugh Grant and Dennis hopper one night after he was done with golf. Bill. Went drinking at the trendy Bob ELS bar and chatted up likey staff. Neff a twenty two year old Norwegian blonde who was in Scotland to study social anthropology when last call came stab Neff invite him Bill to accompany her and her friend Marie burden to a party. They knew about surprise accepted, the invitation, you know, Scotland closes kind of early Bill said later, it was just a whole bunch of people saying, oh, we're going to the next thing that walked through the cobblestone streets of CNN ruse and ended up at a party in Georgian townhouse filled with Scandinavian exchange students. Nobody could believe it. When I ride at the party with Bill Murray, staff Neff said, she worried that there were no clean glass. At the party the Bill was happy to drink vodka from a coffee Cup. Then he went one step further. He walked over to the sink rolled up the sleeves of his plaid shirt and started washing dishes. As Bill told the story. The party was way ahead of us. There was no way to catch up. So it looked around. It was like a college dorm, not a dorm, but a house, and like a college house, it was kind of a mess, and I realized well, I got to do something. I can't stand still because everyone's way ahead of us. So just started washing the dishes, and it was quite fun because we got to wash the dishes, and you could talk a little and keep washing the dishes Bill diligently scraped, dry, pasta dish joking with an economic students that maybe they should just reheat it as word spread that Bill was at the party more people showed up many of them young Scandinavians. The booze was quickly depleted the Bill stayed for a while. Anyway, the party had acquired its own momentum. You can't just walk in and walk out. Bill said of the party, not feel strange, but you walk into someone's house, do all the dishes and leave. Then you feel like you've made a contribution. So you have in this book also some little interlude the dark side of Bill Murray. So he's not. And you kind of luted this earlier, I think he didn't he didn't show up on time then respond. There are other things that he's done perhaps it wouldn't endear him to people. If if you got if you got to know, those there's the one thing where he's working on the script for I think it was screwed with a couple of writer friends, and they're out at some places like Palm Springs in this like rich woman just keeps having him for like, I need an autograph. And I need a photo autograph and after several days of this. Okay. I'm gonna give you this next autograph? But if I do get to throw you in the pool. And so he gives the autograph and then he throws her in the pool. Maybe she deserved. So have you taken the time to compare the ten principles to the ten commandments to see what these two? I've not done like a point-by-point comparison. I will say that things are secret sauce here. You know that can. Yeah. From the. You know, serve. There is a certain amount of Bill in Tom that like it's not the fundamental motor that makes him go. But he does the light in the doing that just not as much as Bill because Bill like it seems to be like his mission in life. But you're sort of like Tom will be out for like a jog in central park and sort of like the couple getting married and say, hey, let me jump in and take some photos with and you have an efficient because like a deigned. So I can do it if you need. Yeah. Well, there's one that jumped out at me. Thanks fifth. Commandment is worship in the church. Baseball and Bill Murray's eight principle is no your pleasures. Yes. And Bill Murray is a die-hard cubs fan and also like own this like a minor league team, and sort of you know, like, I think I'm certainly a die-hard cubs fan. But also like has gotten a lot of flesh on minor league base-. Over the years that these two very successful actors are drawn to a game that has no time limits and are drawn teams that were traditionally losers right Bill. It's the cubs. And with talent was the Cleveland Indians, it reflects their upbringing and that in each case sort of lighter. Tom went through that tough divorce bill's father died when Bill was pretty young. And so you need something to like pour yourself into them. And you know, so you've got all this energy and passion, and it's not obvious. What you're going to do with it. But like baseball can absorb that that you know, sort of it's it's got the time. It's got the rhythm got sort of like the richness that you know, you can spend years of your life. You know, sort of like feeling like yourself intertwined with baseball. And then when you get older, you know, you can say, oh, I can put this passion into other things including my career in acting. But you never really completely the baseball behind. They both still care about it. We can't get through show here without talking about writing. And we got the segue. Call the author author segment where previously authors to toss me some questions, which I can throw it. All right cart season. So this this these questions come from author Pam Kelly. She's written a book called money. Iraq at Greta for work at the Charlotte server where she was a reporter and shelf awareness scrubbed money rock as a hell of a story. Like NewSouth version of the wire and actually took place not far from where we're sitting here money rock. The man was one of Charlotte's most successful cocaine dealers in the in the seventies as her work is non-fiction. Okay. So her first question relates to to the research. And you know, how did you go about researching? And what was the strangest thing you had to do the most unexpected thing you learned in that process, my favorite thing. So I mean, I push every button that's available to me that you know, sort of like, I'm doing the Bill Murray book, and you know, serve I'm asking people. They have stories I'm looking through newspaper magazine clippings, I'm also doing just like old fashioned shoe leather reporting went I didn't want to sort of like a bother his family. I figured it was fair game. To talk to anybody who's life. He had like parachuted into and then parachuted out of. So I went to places where he lived. There was one in upstate New York. I just walked around asking people. Like, hey, did you know Bill Murray? Did you have Reva story candidate Bill Murray went on the street? Nine out of ten people hurt he lives in town. Then every now, and then you get something golden there was one guy who said, well, I don't personally. But like the guy owns the wine shop one town over like, I remember he has a story and the white had moved is track down. And I went in and like I bought a couple of bottles of wine and the guy had like these amazing stories about like, you know, sort of like Bill shows up in a rainstorm like having just bought like evil knievel's helmet need like. On his own motorcycle. Or you know, sort of like he's talking with Bill and people are starting to like recognize famous guy in the shop and like crowd Bill Bill just like goes out into the street and start to snowball fight. So it was and things that just never been written about anywhere else to take two together the stories. I mean, I wrote each book it took me just about exactly how much was the research of it not half. So like six months of researching. And then I say like all right time to settle down start writing. So you do didn't that order you research first before you start writing a little bit in the case of that is usually my approach like do all the research, and then like sort of I can figure out I'm very structure entered and I can't structure until I knew what I'm working with. But in the case of Bill at the store, so many like bite-size anecdotes that I some of them. I wrote op I went along because I said, okay, I I'm going to tell the story in. Four hundred words, I've got on the harvest and awfully you're out like where to put it as the book comes together or second question from Pam do you like to spit out a messy first draft or you one of those people like me struggles to move Ford until the beginning feels rights I am very structure oriented, and that sort of the magazine background of if I've only got twelve hundred words to tell a story, I don't wanna hand in three thousand and look let my editor choose which twelve hundred feels like wasted effort to me. So before I start writing. I don't have every single. I've got a pretty good. All right. This sexual one's gonna be about this section to break it down. And then the thing I really tortured about is the opening sentence. I could spend a day wondering around in circles, I feel like the it's important. It's like eighty thousand words here, and you're worried about that. I. Yeah. It is really more. Like once. I've got like, okay. I'm this rock. I will build my church. And then I go forward. Great Arthur question. What have you learned the hard way in your writing experience? When you're. Doing an interview just like the tape recorders sometimes it's just not gonna work. It's and you know, sort of like info on the phone. I will vote Tepe it and take notes, and if I'm talking to somebody in person like that's distracting, but like the constantly peering at the tape recorder. Okay. The red light on the red light on it. Okay. Just. I've done hundreds of interviews over the years and ninety nine percent of them it works out fine. But that's enough that you remember the ones where sort of like you go back and listen like dead air. You say what am I gonna do now? So in getting these people to talk to you, and they're several steps to the process, you gotta reach out to them. The get set it up, and then you got to conduct the interview short and say that some of that is just like the nuts and bolts of knowing the right person to ask and sort of writing a compelling pitch. One of the things about you know, sort of just interviewing famous people that you have to assume they've been asked most of the obvious questions eight hundred times already and so part of my job is to not ask the obvious questions. You know, sort of like go in, and if you want them to open up and be more interesting and compelling and not the auto pilot interview, you have to sort of like show them that you've lived up to your end of the bargain that you're going to be asking things, they don't usually get. So what would you final question for paying? What would you tell an aspiring author about the publishing process publishing? Spiring author needs to just right? The publishing process is a bear the sort of start, you know, like not just right all the time. But like get assignments wherever you can even if at first they're not paying much, but you know, you're going to learn the by it's not just sort of like a random tweet or something that's like in your notebook. But saying I had to write five hundred words on the, you know, this person who owns a bakery shop, and that's a really valuable experience by itself. So start like, do whatever you can to have concrete assignments that I learned from that. So have these books impacted your life in any way? Yeah. I mean. I guess what you learned short. So I'm old enough that, you know, like, I'm not tabular Rossa this point that you know, sort of like I've got a personality I've got a set of beliefs. But I think that you know, you spend time in somebody's head like that. Of course, it's gonna rub off on you. And it's going to color, the that, you know, sort of like you spend the time like a year working on Tom Hanks, and you think about being descent and how you can sort of like make other people's lives better. And be gracious about it, and you spend like sort of year inside like if he can do it. Why cannot right exactly? And you spent a aspire to be like Bill Murray. The feel your mode of Bill Murray as Astle right? Sort of like the failure mood of Tom Hanks is like, oh, it wasn't quite as nice as you hope for this part of the joy of Bill that he reads the room really well, and he knows when behavior is going to go over and win. It's not going to be welcomed. So I ended up a bit. But you don't wanna be the guy who's like here. I am in the party can start. Right. But what it does make you race? Is you just like cherished just sort of like the randomness of life, and like having a couple of young kids that serve like kids are naturally like improvisational to children got young boys? And so like, you know, enjoying them even more on that level of accepting the randomness, apparently, they were setting up this interview you had quite a bit on your plate. You're working on something new. Can you tell us about I can't I'm working on a book about Fred Rogers, called kind? And wonder which actually I've finished I write my first drafts longhand, and I so I have finished writing the book, but I am the typing at this week is so that if I have like weird hundred yard stare tunnel vision. It's because you know, just been like you write it all out on a legal pad. And then you get back in time idea, which I know is unusual. But I like it both because I like the sense of flow. I get into as I'm writing it that you it helps just like the word spill out of a little more naturally. And it's very easy when you're reading over a long manuscript that your eyes can just kind of glaze over and look that looks fine. But when you're typing it you have to deeply engage with every single sentence every single word. So it really makes me like I revise and polish as typing it up and that helps out a lot. But it's time consuming. We look forward to that. Where can people find your books? Well, just. About anywhere books are sold for example, here in Charlotte park road books. Absolute good, and you have a website the rule forty-two dot com winter about that route. What is so? It's from Ellison wonderland, which was my first favorite book. When I was a kid, and it's at the trial of the Jack of hearts and Alice attending and the king of hearts presiding doesn't like her being there, and you can just go with Gavin Edwards dot com. That gets you there too. Actually, remember that. But the king says rule forty to all persons taller than a mile high to leave the courtroom, and she says, well, I'm not a vial high, and that's not a proper rule, you just made it up. And he says it's the oldest rule in the book says then it should be rule number one. Okay, gavin. It's been great. Appreciate you taking the time to talk to bet your writing and your books, and we look forward your next one. Thank you very much. It's been real lettuce. Thank you for having me. Well, that's it for today. Another offer giving voice to the written words, if you liked our show, please tell your friends, please leave a review on apple podcast views like the gasoline drive traffic to the podcast. You can subscribe to the podcast, which is free by the way when apple podcasts or wherever you like get your pockets are social media links if you're into that sort of thing or at our website showery, his podcast dot com. Fade BAC or an idea for an author to be on the show. You can Email us at our contact page on the website authors. Welcome to Smithfield. The show when the author page you sign up for Email list at our website. Thanks for doing that. We'll give you a free book a work of fiction written by your host, by the way. If you sign up for Email list, we promise not to spam. You at takes too much time would just send you periodic updates about the show. Please don't forget our sponsors with books and shirl- Nick library links to our sponsors and the resources are on the webpage and in the show notes. He find out more about us in our sister shows at Quincy podcast network dot com. Next week. We welcome Cathy is to the ship who read and talk about her book. The hunter story home battling chronic homelessness and Charlotte until then I'm Landis way for Charlotte readers podcast.
"Yeah well come to the program called Armchair expert. I'm DAX Shepard. I'm Monica Patterson and today we have Keri Russell Felicity Felicity Felicity. The Americans waitress mission impossible three and soon she will be in star wars the rise of skywalker. Good sound effect. Wow listen. She is a powerhouse on the Americans. Shares she's unbelievable. I can't speak to felicity because I simply didn't see it but but but boy what a what a beautiful look people loved felicity. Yes you loved felicity. Well I also we didn't really watch okay and carries a cool down to Earth Gal. Isn't she there. Yeah I loved her and you will to please enjoy Keri Russell. We are supported by mind. Body Monica yes. Did you know. There's a super convenient way to book fitness classes and Wellness Appointments. We gotta tell armchairs about the mind body at makes it easy to discover and book everything from Yoga boot camps haircuts to massages. Even when you're travelling you can find the best studios salons and spas wherever you are and all. Their schedules are in one place. My Body's mission is to help people live happier healthier. The're lives and we know that no to wellness. Journeys are the same. So whatever makes you feel your best. The mind body APP can help you find it. Download the mind body APP today at mind. Mind Body Dot I o.. Slash DAX. That's mind body dot I o Slash Dax no memberships no commitments. Great deals and discounts on and dropping classes and intro packages at all the best local studios and gyms a huge variety thousands of different types of classes different studios and wellness services. This is N. convenient. You can search him book all in one APP. It's the industry's leaving Wellness Tech Platform and at your gateway to wellness helping people across the globe lead lead healthier happier lives. Download the mind body APP TODAY AT MIND BODY DOT I o.. Slash tax. That's mind body dot I o.. Slash Dax he's Gotcha. Do you vacillate though between looks looks because I have over the years like recommitted to many different looks and of course this week within a week I've got like four or five styles I'm juggling. I can't towel which ones working best for me. And I'm relying on Monica largely and my wife gets style but did you have like a flair for many different kinds is like sometimes I want to look like a proper hillbilly. Sometimes I want to look like a message queue guy. I am very stylish but you have to really figure that out out when you look at me like I can. I just say one thing. This is a little much like these things didn't happen as one outfit but in its totality before I left the door looked in the mirror I was like Kerry is GonNa think you're going for like a I don't know American Eagle outfitter magazines things. It does a red wing red wing. Okay I was married to a carpenter. Okay Oh yes yes on the Internet. It was kind of elevated to contractor. But he did everything I mean. That's the nicer term. But you know yeah. I think Carpenters Cooler Than Jesus you surfing by the way we were just talking today about the real history of the real man Jesus and we were asking really weird questions like did did he. Did he have to go to the bathroom did he. Far these kind of things potentially sacrilegious. Thanks okay but glazed right over as knowing that he's a carpenter clearly. Some people Paul lived in homes built by. Jesus that's true. And if you think about the value that a Frank Lloyd Wright House batches I have to holy the house directed by the Lord that still standing I know. Can you say isis. said he was a carpenter for the kind of doesn't fit to him him right. We'll tell him what the tool Bell Thom. Yeah you don't really think of him as being very muscular well he was caught. Why Roy he was on the Cross? Yeah everyone that then was ripped. There just wasn't enough calories tonight right. You didn't get auto twinkies. Yeah you had like some ripe fruit for like three weeks a year. Can you eat as much as you could. If it wasn't in it was warmer armor there Mediterranean okay so maybe they have fresh fruit like six weeks a year scar eating various. Ah I WANNA bring people up to speed on our friendship first of all. There's two parties a year. In in Hollywood land one is the night before the Oscars Party and one is like like the night before the EMMYS party. I believe that it was the latter correct so I went one year. And you were there. 'cause you and our net had a show together for half a second Fox Fox I believe Mitch Hurwitz Create a program and you were jumping around with will and we're old friends and then you and I got to talking and I was really dying in to find out if what the reality of this kind of hometown lower about you that I had that I grew up with. I wanted to know if it checked out and here we go moniker. You Ready Buckling one of my best friends growing up Colin garlic. Who I've you've heard me talk about best guitar player Vermont? My Life Virtuoso. He he had a cousin. Tony who at a young age somehow got discovered it was on the all new. Mickey Mouse Club okay. You can't imagine what a shock shockwave. This was through our hometown hiding. That is big on. Imagine Ryan Gosling Britney Spears. These are all her cohorts. So but anyways carrying Tony we're lovers for quite some time lovers of the outside describe them. Yeah yea like the cover of a romance novel Lovers Very Very. I'm hot winds. How old is seven starting at what I started at fifteen? Oh okay program. Seventeen but there were. I think it was twelve to eighteen. Got It nineteen of us in. I want to hear hear about the love affair. Because it's GonNa be a great story but mostly I just at this party. I was like the odds. Are This has been over inflated in my hometown in that you guys maybe data for a week or two or something. But I'm just GONNA find out I said. Do you happen to remember Tony. Luca and his cousin colon in she goes. Oh my God yes I love them. I used to go to Michigan all the time all the time and I got I got really excited and then you seem to have a real sweet spot for Michigan. Your is such a sweet spot from Michigan before this meeting I met your mom like Sundance. Yes Oh my goodness and you remember all all about you know. I've heard this from many people said but I loved her connection with Michigan. Oh right and so we talked about that. Were you there in Sundance dance. For the unfortunate thing is I started his business really young. Yeah and so before kind of thirty. It's all a blur you're just like Who Am I going to make sure? I don't remember adults mania. But they remember you because you were a kid. Yeah all those stories are sort of like where where was I. I don't know but I think it was even before waitress. I think it was the upside of anger or Mike. Mike binder Mike Binder who I love Mike Finder. Nice human. What's funny is we live in an era where I was like? Oh she worked with Mike Minor when I was reading in. And I'm like I love Mike binder and I was Kinda like thank. You know. It's now dicey ask anyone like. Hey how was your experience with. I mean I've never heard half prepared at all times just like who So often I'll be like oh you were with my hero Blah Blah Blah and. The actress will go like Yeah you're not a great dude. You never know it's it's an interesting time. Yeah I mean when we had this decision changing my clothes I asked him to watch me. I don't know speaking of that. Actually we this joke which I find hilarious for women and for men when all that stuff comes out about dudes like masturbating in front of girls or whatever sure right it's it's amazing when you flip it right so I've been in the car riding around to different location with people I was working with. It would be like me going into my trailer and be like no rough. Can I have a minute mistake and me fingering myself up. Watch this watch this. Yeah Yeah but grows. There is an inherent problem in this though it would be so it's always symmetrical yes mo Harkin second-guessed that ninety six percent of guys would love to witness. This would do now take down her fans and be like to check. Check this out. Well can I tell door. I can't imagine a world in which I would want strains ranger and I'm like fuck me up having sex with you would never impulse buy right like you. Don't impulse buy yeah. This is a power thing. This is Yes it is. I think it's actually mechanical thing. Oh tell me I think. It's a mechanical thing. which is that women have to take something in to their minds into and men are just putting out and I think it's a it's a physical thing you have to trust this person exactly enough? Yeah but that's what I mean by power like relinquish some power to the man broke. The men never has to do that. Well do you know Dan say okay so so. He drew up when we were talking to him. He perfectly illustrated this issue. He cites this very famous study where they asked college age kids both women and men. Hey they'd send a an attractive someone of the opposite sex and say would you like to have sex right now. Basically the guy said yes like ninety percent of the time in the girls never said yes so at that time was oh disguise or horny right but there was a follow up study a secondary study more recent where they controlled for everything so they controlled for safety safety. There was gonNA be a room. I forget how they did that. Were it was in her in her same apartment building and it was controlled and there was going to be known. Find out so there'd be no oh slut shaming like they controlled for all the variables that are threatening to women because we live in a very violent society towards women at once. Those were taken off the table. Women said yes much more frequently. Isn't that interesting isn't it makes sense. Yeah it's not that women don't want to have sex just there's a there's more of a fear maybe it's a little more involved involved. Yeah complicated. Yeah Yeah but but even even though I agree with that study in his point ultimately I also on top of that thing dudes are much more willing to just fuck anything thing. Yes even if they felt not so safe we have a friend WHO's on GRINDR. Who enters a lot of not safe situations where we're both like? Wow that's Okay okay you you walked in. There is three guys and right one guy was in. You know it's a little more meals scary dude on do just that easier exchange bottom line line bottom line. I remember being with people. I loved the in London and I was like. How'd you guys meet and they've been together ever like just some on the street? No words just met up and oh you hooked up like we don't do that as much. I mean people do it i. There are an occasion back ten lack so I was very delighted to see that you both remembered cherished and all of it was as sensational as I had had hoped my hat and then on top of that both kristen and I- independently when we got in the car rolling. Boy that carry is a very shiny human being isn't isn't she. She is very charismatic. Attractive we were very attracted to you. I mean not in a way but we had a long chat about Saudi. The full you were and how infectious you're so so nice. I am not shiny at all. You are good. Continue incredibly nervous at those things and in fact I think I had a Martini. I never drink anything other than beer and wine and I think I was like. I'm a Martini and I think it made me more. We're talking about but I remember talking to you guys and your so warm but I remember I brought up the story that I've replayed later over and over like talk so much I was. Why did you talk so much and just like myself? Because Kohl's mom and Tony's momber sisters they're like one of twelve kids that were maybe in jazz band or something insane growing just all play everything they can sing. They're like it's a it's a really awesome. Yeah Yeah really great. I spent my summers in Michigan. Christmas like everything. So their oldest brother James became a hippie and like left kind of did his whole life and had these three boys and he's a true hippie and he kind of amazing and he would sit down at dinner with you and say instead of saying what do you do. You know. He'd say what excites you. Oh and I I don't know but I think I brought that story up and then I remember thinking what a year that's so refreshing to know that everyone leaves parties and like replays. The whole thing. Yeah now you grew up in Orange County or at least you were born and brought home from the hospital. I was born in Fountain Valley California and I moved to Arizona When I was like one and until I was thirteen was in Arizona? Okay and so David Your Dad. He worked for Nissan for Nissan. So it was. What was dad's occupation was he a market market friends? Make Fun of him when I say this but I call him like a suit for Nissan but to me he wore a suit and he left the house but he didn't sell cars he's he was is like a like a parts manager so he would leave you know. He was out of the House three days. A week driving Kingston Arizona and Flagstaff Arizona and selling the part that I don't know like writing the reports. Okay so we probably worked for corporate kind of monitored he zone probably in he made sure okay. Yeah and then my father sold cars at dealerships my whole so we have a car connection. Yeah and then mom was a homemaker okay and then you an older brother rather the guys and the little sister especially okay. Now you you didn't just stop Arizona though right because now you guys went to Texas we went to Colorado for high school. Okay early high school and then I started working. Thank you mouse. You did that shoot in Orlando or did then okay so backup cup. So that's a lot of moving And how did you take to especially if you left when you were what thirteen or fourteen to go to Colorado. That's a pretty significant age. Start over I think yeah I I had to start over a lot and it takes a certain kid you know it was harder on other of my siblings but I I. I was sort of a loner anyway. So it kind of I mean I had a best friend in Arizona that I grew up with. But then I'm not like Super Gregarious or it. Kinda keep to myself anyway. So you're an introverted. Yes it was okay It's easier for introverts. Maybe oh yeah. Maybe I don't know a doubt. It's easy for anyone. Yeah but you were dancing. That was a hobby of yours. Yes then I in Colorado. I got super involved in dance and that was kind of my sport. And that's all I you did from three in the afternoon till nine o'clock at night. What kind of dance the every kind like? Somebody parents didn't have a ton of money so I got a scholarship at a studio and you'd have to go win and clean the bathrooms and sweep the floors or whatever but then you'd have to take a certain requirement of classes so half of them have ballet jazz. You know like whatever but that's kind of what I did alter my teenage years. Did you do any extra curricular activity based around that where you unlike pom squad or cheer anything because it was so. I was so like single-minded on succeeding at that Dan so at that time. Did you have fantasies of being like a professional personal dancer. I guess so like that's all I cared about an certainly kept me out of a like a lot of trouble right. I think I would have been just keeps. You have trouble when you're yet cause so you'd have to find a different group that would've accepted you. Yeah it and if you're shy exactly. I just did that and did on the weekends. I did all the time so I didn't have after totally fine my my way when you're imagining being a professional dancer. I don't even really know what that means. That mean you dance on Broadway or does that mean you're Mikhail Baryshnikov are the battle although music videos of sort of comeback anyways. Growing up like MTV all those like the like there was a really cool girl then carry on that show her that would have been sort of like five people and by the way the way when you're thirty your body's so wrecked so in a way I had the best of all worlds because I was snatched out of that and then got to transfer before I broke my body in a way that right and I didn't have anything else kind of going on but was acting in that mix not at all. Just dance just dance okay. So first of all. How do you get discovered by Disney? You go to a giant casting call with like hundreds of kids. It's yeah with all my little dance in Colorado or in Colorado Disney's famous for doing these like they don't want like the studio kids in New York who are trained in who are slick. They want like real kids like the Michigan Ryan from Toronto. So you know it's funny. I still see him occasionally. It's like I'm sure he's like it. Does it's why wouldn't you claim that he's amazing. I do want to talk about that a lot of people I think. Feel like. That's something they have to shed. Its gold your gold. Doing Bell BIV devoe wraps. I'm sorry sorry I'm like doing the Roger Rabbit and run. Come on. It doesn't get better than that. So you go to some Convention Center I assume or some regency yours. Then you wait for hours with your friends and everyone's like waiting like their hair done APP or whatever they're doing fifteen and like little kids who can sing and all this stuff and are you out the competition like all girls definitely going to get it not at all. I'm sure it was just like what are you guys doing. Okay like I'd never done this before. Oh great and go in and I do like a nerdy little dance and then who by the way that casting director so much would make something on that guy seriously and he goes You know like little little girl. She wanted to sing a song. Read like a skit about a mermaid in some recycling shit. I don't know the he said. Do you want to sing a song and I said Oh no. I don't sing and he said do you WanNa look at how many little kids are lined up outside there and you're gonNa tell me you don't want to sing and I said I don't sing. Oh boy and then he brought me back anyway and maybe sing happy birthday. Just WanNa make sure you can carry it like I would have failed that. Let me to basically Well enough that they maybe so after the first round how many people were brought back. You know then you're invited where you go with your apparent and the the the creepy thing about that show or maybe the good thing is they also interview your parents. Yeah that's a good idea. It these because some of them are crazy. Yeah as some of all parents are so then there were around twenty of us and two of those. was that in a different city or still in Denver. I think we went to L. A.. Do it all my getting excited. It's total playoffs. Yeah and I'm sure the parents are like oh I wonder if my kid's GonNa make it. Yeah it was your mom out of ten ten is she would have been like a rabid stage mom zero. She doesn't want to do it where she in that on the spectrum. I think they were just ignorant. Yeah I think I remember. We had to sign contracts before and my parents were like. What are you gonNA make money like? This is a lot of money. Yeah my parents. It couldn't be a week. Let's yeah it was crazy. How many of you come into the new cast? Okay if there's nineteen total that's how many uneven muskateers there are using the analogy. That sounds good. Okay I think there maybe seven of us new in some really amazing singers. Okay now the Timberlake the Speier's and the Ryan Gosling they were already. They had left left. They were there or they were behind you. I think they were a part of the new kids that came in and they I guess they were a part of our group but they're all twelve and I was seventeen. Take time for them. I could drive. These are like they were babies in fact I babysat Britney Spears a little sister yeah sure sure little kids. Yeah sweet little kids because really when you look at that group of people. It's almost like being on one of the the peak years of Saturday night live cast wise as far as who ended up being bizarre. It's incredible group of kids have all become hugely successful. Yeah so they put in an apartment because I was wondering. Are you in a hotel. Do you live at Epcot Center. What's going the crazy thing? Will you have to find your housing okay. So it's super low if I so they're like no you're on the show but you have to find your place to live and your income is barely enough to cover an apartment but you should work it out right. I thought it was such a cool experience. So we're like Oh my God. This is so excited to bring todd and Julie's they would come for the summers. Yes okay so we would all get these things called silver passes which gets you in the polar which you guys probably have. Well we'll side. No my mom. I'm working for General Motors. They launched the Chevrolet Lumina at Disneyworld so GM bought like. I don't know how much that thing costs for them. To Co brand with Disney but they launched the car there we were there for like ten days and we were given my brother and I these all access passes and these credit cards free concessions my God yeah we would just sprint would open to space mountain right at ten times. Eat for two hours and then exactly when you work for Disney they give you something called a silver pass which means you get in and the number of the members of your family for free so every day. This is what it was like. Mickey mouse come everyday before work like before nine. Am We'd meet meet. Some other cast members a family that was visiting from their hometown. GET THEIR ENTIRE FAMILY IN FOR FREE LINE UP to get the kids like I have five five in my family. They were someone else would have six. Get an all these people for from Texas or whatever and then we'd go to work but my brother would take my silver pass and just like do acid with friends wonderful. Oh Yeah. He was hilarious for the whole year. You're there no just the summer so just the summer. I think I think I would be out of school like a month and then I'd have to go back. God It okay so let you were back and forth back and forth a little bit. What was it like to be in the grind of high school like say tenth grade going? Oh God his we get oversight oversight go because what a different life you have your hotshot in Florida you have autonomy. You've got some money money. Yeah you basically your own place. Yeah and and then you're stuck back in school back in reality. You could hold both thoughts right because there's a part of me that really craved like I never went to a school dance or like there were little things that I missed which I think continued into my twenties when I worked on felicity. I'm so grateful for all my experiences but I think you did did pay some price. You missed some. There's always a price so I think you know when my girlfriend talks about going to summer camp on like a summer camp. Well what I was GonNa say is you. You're kind of living in two dramatically different cultures one during the Sony which is all kind of artsy and everyone loves singing and dancing and expressing. And then you're going back to Oh Colorado but that year for I think Disney because I was under their umbrella like the old studio system so they put me in it was like a Maria part two or something of honey. I shrunk the kit honey honey. I blew up the kids so I did that during the week and then I would fly the red eye on a Friday and shoot the Saturday the Mickey Mouse Club in life back on Sunday night and I remember I used to cry on the plane just wanted to be around the kids because the movie it was just me and adults base by the way. It was so uncool like the cool kids. Were getting drunk and doing fun things. And and and we were like learning dance numbers meeting boys to men and cadets the Bible we're people fascinated by you back in high school when you return to reality I feel like I would have been very curious about the fact that you were on television and win away to Orlando. Oh I don't think so missed is I feel like you might have missed it. I mean it's not that cool Monica thing. I think that is cool. I know you do but I'm always Monica. Fight all the time. I'm like there's so many boys we're giving you rhythm and you missed it I just don't I just know I know for sure but it doesn't like to start the soccer team. I think that would have been a bigger deal at the KEG party but just in general interest in you had to have exist. I think so. No I don't want to do and Tony Fall for each other. I mean it was their school then Yeah Yeah Michigan. You can't imagine phone ringing gene and going like. Do you know that girl from felicity that Tony's girlfriend bullshit so in my on my own you like magazines and Shit almost not possible so talented. By the way of course episode I think of parenthood he came in formed. Yeah I WANNA say that he music. Yeah because we would have all these different musicians on that. Show like James Taylor. I mean he's he's so he can play. Anything can play. Piano is just like silk. So you know. I don't even know that I know him. Just very good friends with colon. I think I met him a couple times but I've inflated that over the years back when he was really famous and I had nothing to going to. I think it acted like we were really tight end so talents sweet and then so when we met on parent I kind of found myself in this position where I was like. I think of acted like we're really good friends and now now realizing we're not gonNA be okay with it totally okay with that okay. So first seasons. He's in one of Mickey Mouse because this is important. I want to know when you're going back. Are you not only going back to reality. But you're also a long term relationship you're juggling and you're you're on you're on TV in some guys. Whether you were augmented over. Not were definitely interested in you. I think we were like made out her. I don't know what you do but I think we became boyfriend girlfriend later when we were a little bit older and then like season. Three of She doesn't remember hypnotists hypnotize. It is going to say like Oh did you drive on your I. I'm GonNa get her there Monica. I remember driving. What no I dated? Now it's breakthrough different guy. Okay slightly older Gorge Kaga Albert Geico Albert Albert fields. He was a part of this like branch off. who was like this cool dude who poor mother? She stressed about it stress. Because you're in show business now. I mean I was wild okay so tony was like the Nice guy ended up with the end. Albert wasn't Nice. Yeah you you don't have to name names but was there any like Raunchy behind the scenes like we're because what I've seen. There's of course I've met a couple of different Disney stars through sobriety. Let's say of course in some pretty hard fucking goings on you know so. It wasn't like it wasn't that crazy. No they were. They're pretty nerdy. Nice kid good except that the drag is at about seventeen all the girls would get like booted off. The guys could stay till they were like twenty five. Oh that's an exaggeration. And what do you suppose because girls. They're like sexualize and they don't they don't want them to have big boobs or anything. All of it. The Mole Shebang stay okay now when that was coming to an end and you knew it was going to come to an end. Obviously you're eighteen when it ended. Yeah I think I cut it off at seventeen seventeen eighteen and so was it something that while you were approaching that did you go like Oh i Wanna continue to do this. I want to continue to make a living doing this. And had you redirect directed your desire to be strictly dancer into. I just want to be a performer. What kind of plans that you have for yourself? As big I was seventeen. I graduated tweeted high school early. Because if you were any wave at a decent student you could graduate early because you can do it as fast as you could At this like onset tutoring Yom awesome. So I did and move to la at seventeen. Did you get emancipated or you just went or did mom come with you. I think someone drove me but then I was just there her. Awhile already been doing stuff on your practice being independent at that point I was pretty independent but still you have two kids. You have three kids. I have three kids. I can't imagine and I was in a world of craziness already to like I was while I I was in Okinawa. Royal talking about. I wasn't even a party I was. I would hate to think of my daughter and I go. Oh fuck you know what I mean. I just was in adult situations a little bit. I just feel like I was in over my head. I'm glad I'm okay. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by Baroque linen. You've Brooklyn Linens. Of course are my favorite sheets. You're spending a thirty year life in sheet. So why don't you make it insanely comfortable in this holiday season. Maybe it's time to give the ones as you love or yourself with something. 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Now as you know Monica's I travel I'm going to be bringing my cbd p. m. and you'll have a time change different he'll need the PM to really get hunkered down a really well to help me adjust. Now you're going back to Hotlanta. Are you gonNA bring a little CBD PM of course okay. Good and put that little mouse right down here a little carriage and put a right off to sleep the surviving the season a little easier. They're offering our listeners. Twenty percent off your next order when you use the Code Dax at checkout and if you're still looking for one last holiday deal we'll keep following. CBD MD on Instagram received the latest updates on their ongoing week of gifting from now until Friday December twentieth. But for the everyday discount you know in and love once again that's CBD MD Dot Com Promo Code Dax for twenty percent off your purchase of high quality. CD OIL PRODUCTS FROM CBD MD.. So you move to La by yourself. Seventeen and then. How quickly do you get felicity? Oh that was a couple years later so I worked on just like TV shows. You know just like getting gusts star and then felicity. I was probably like twenty one. Yeah really quick back to Tony is interviews. Got Come clear did you guys cohabitate in La. Now Yeah Oh you did live together together all right so I was just worried about how lonely were and I'm a little worried about your safety but it sounds like maybe we're good. Yeah Tony for a long time so you didn't live at Oakwood though did you. I did from a moment. Here's the other thing we love when I lived there. I think I was doing that movie with my mom. Okay there they've got a buffet breakfast. We understand cut off. I never saw that. Oh we're told there are lots of don't know such. It's a creepy place right creepy kids. There's a lot of different experiences that come out of there was like the highlight of their. It was so fun like my. I did this. Movie's a thorough with this little boy. Judge Hutcherson who's now huge star. And when I met him I would go pick them up at the Novi Department and take them to like this car boys when we work together yet he you loved it. He wanted me to come for breakfast they had like this terrible buffet at all like all like waffles and donuts and stuff. You know breakfast is a breakfast and there's take care it was heaven and I was like Oh this is so fun for him and then of course. There's a dark underbelly of that place which is like stage MOMS in Dad's children and just creep city. Okay so do remember as you were auditioning for felicity. Did you have any awareness of the the stakes of it or were you like. Oh this is another pilot it may or may not get picked up where you cognizant of the fact like this is a gigantic opportunity. This is what I can tell you about that in the actual story of the pilot is sort of sad and true but I thought it was hilarious and when I finally went for this screen test and there yeah I think the ruling four of us I remember left and I drove a pickup truck. At the time. I drove my truck by myself to go have dinner like a steak dinner. Oh I myself and before we had cell phone so I remember thinking it's a big deal to me if I get it or if I don't get it it it will because you had an opportunity because an opportunity. It's actually something good that I actually like so I went and I had a big steak and I ride delayed here in Sizzler. It's better and I got home and then I heard the call like if you got it or not like on your answering machine my answering Indian dance in your apartment. Get excited I was. I was happy you process things how you process things and I think I process things alone and and I think some people process them by talking about like meeting people and going faulk. I hope I got that. I hope that that would make me sweat like you know what I mean to Thi. I want to go in a room and you know I just came from all the press for this Disney thing. I need a minute like when I go to those talk shows or all that stuff. I don't have anyone come with me. I don't have hair and makeup. It stresses me out. I need to be alone is needed quiet so that I can go out. Put all that Shit. Because it's not my normal. Yeah that's not your natural state right. I totally agree with you and I to go to talk shows. I don't come with anyone in in the segment producers in just the general staff at these shows are always Cheryl scared for their like. What are you going? I can't get water. I'm going to be okay either. Think like you've been stood up. Yeah I almost feel like I'm a loser like a moment movies by myself because we like myself by the way a movie nice but I too loved. I'm like I need thirty minutes to think about what's coming next. Yeah but I think in general even if there is a good thing or a stressful thing I need to sort of take it down like process it on my I own filter it first and then I can kind of. Do you think that has anything to do with us. Speaking Middle Children. Oh you're middle to. I'm a middle child and so much of my life. Life was kind of private because there was a teenager who was insane and then there was a baby who needed tons of attention. I want my mom to no. I'm not making any problems for you. That was kind of breaks my heart. But it's too I think more than that what you're describing. I do think there's a truth to introvert introvert and extra I do because I feel like there are moments where I could be really loud and really crazy but I think just the way you like to recharge. Yeah if I'm at a dinner party I am fucking loving. I still have to take myself to the bathroom and have a minute to go. I just need a minute like the moon and then I'm going to come back out. Or if I have to be the premier or a crowd shake it out cabinet. Go Hide in the store. How can I be in here? Okay okay I'M GONNA come back out. I have to take it down for a minute and then head back out just like doing press and and being a you know on talk shows and all those things if if you're not funny and you know super confident like I went to a hypnotist for like sweating so I was like so nervous after felicity. I became paralyzed. You know nervous while doing press or just shooting in general press mostly then it got into like being even around people like my girlfriend Mandy in. LA would call. And it's back. When do you remember? We had those things go caller. Id Code and I'd pick up the phone. Hello it's me calling. Why do you sound scare me? I didn't mean to so scared I'm just having of like people are like an. I can't imagine what people feel now with like social media and I had none of that well and then also again. I don't think I was ever was famous as you are on felicity and then neither of even one billion famous like when Robert Downey junior goes to a mall or something and people literally have to stop running the store. They're running or whatever to go get involved but there's something specific about felicity and they were huge and they were huge too Yang audience. That is fervent. So Robert Downey Junior. Yes but he has a different thing going on the on the West Wing. Who probably I believe? They had many more viewers than Tun getting the same attention. Probably because the fan base is when I was young people would slam on their brakes and threatened to kill me. Because that's what I'm saying. Of course I had like Super Nice people come up going going based on how you I want to be like. Yeah but it's a lot of energy is toward you and at the time. So young in such intermittent didn't quite have the language bridge for that at the time so you need to tap out earlier than other people need to ensure now I know it one of my best girlfriend's New York who was also on the Mickey ask Clem. Who is now like a big time lawyer doesn't under the stuff? One of the first big talk shows I went on a true story. Rosie O'Donnell Vakman. She had a show go back in a million years ago and I went on and I got that overwhelming thing. I got so overwhelmed. I walked out. I could feel it. It as a stage manager is going and three. Oh and it was like slow-motion heartbeat. I can't hear my own voice. I'm walking Out and by the way she couldn't have been nicer writing. She's so warm. She's so nice she's asking me questions. Tears coming down life smiling and acting like it's fine wiping them away going Colorado I grew up there and she's home correct and and I was so ashamed of myself that I couldn't do it like I locked myself in the bathroom. The hotel well I was just like I was. I fucked it up. I was so bad at it and my girlfriend at the time Alana was like you know what I just saw. It was like a big famous person at the time Kim basing her on and she was so nervous and you know what I liked her for. It made me think that must be so nerve. Wracking the doll. Aw loved her for Sanaa. Like it is nerve racking. Okay now I gotta go back to felicity listening okay. So that's J. J. The show. Jj today okay. Great and so you guys have now worked together three times. That's true right because he did mission. Impossible three and now star wars possible three. It was awesome. It was an awesome death people still. That's a great death. I don't I never watched the show but I was too to Monica's because point I was acutely aware of it like I knew I knew you were felicity. I knew exactly what you look like. I'd seen a bunch of magazine covers. I saw billboards and everything the. WB is a small but a lot of those shows in that era. I knew I was many shows. Yes that's true. And if they were young shows like I knew that Smallville I knew those but I didn't watch watch but I know what it is yes in all the actors and I knew they were popular and stuff so now what I have very thin understanding of but I we know is a huge to do is that you cut your hair season and everyone freaked out. People lost their Shit Shit now to me. Just I find that because I wasn't on the inside inside of it. It seems preposterous and Hilarious to me. Just Larry Learning this but so between season one and two coming back on season two yet. A new HAIRDO and new HAIRDO. Who chose rose to have a new hairdo so? Jj Matt Show Okay. Yeah it wasn't like you were like I'm changing this up. So this is the beginning of of where I understood how things play in the press. Right so how. Things are taken out of context. Yeah so when I did that that show. We're wrapping up the show and hair and makeup trailer end of season. One was putting everything in boxes other stuff and the whigs and there was a wig. Big that was like a little boys or some shit. I don't know and I put it on is a joke because we would shoot two five in the morning on a Friday night and I put it on and they took a picture of me because they were like and they said you know it'd be really funny. Send this to Jane Matt over the break because I had such a big burly hair and send it to them and just say this is a cute to give him a panic. Panic attacks and I sent a letter I send you guys. I just did it and they thought it'd be so cute if I cut my hair. It's like a polaroid I'm up in Muskoka girl love Muskoka Coca. I grew up going to Muskoka. Von My girlfriend. Yeah so I was up Muskoka swimming with her in the lake in sounds like there's a phone call from you you have to take it's Jj and Matt. There's no laughing about how funny the joke is there like seriously would you. Oh I was like guys. Wasn't that funny. They're like no seriously usually we saw that picture and we thought that is what every college girl does. They break up with her boyfriend and they cut their hair radical asom radical and. I said sure okay. So they cut it to show. Oh Okay we filmed my hair cut and yet people. I think so what happened was there was an executive at one of those upfront things. Who as a joke in a speech said we'll we'll never let someone cut their hair again So then it became my problem And it was just a joke. If that whole event how if I was a part of something and all of a sudden basically what I would have interpreted from. That is oh I was hanging on by such a threat and now this hair was the only thing attractive brought me and now that's gone now. People hate me it would have confirmed my own story about myself that I'm not enough. I mean I mean who knows I I had my insecurities. We're probably at such massive levels at that time but they're grown people had a mom at a mall. Come up to me during that time. Go before you cut your. Oh you're like oh thanks you for that. Ah but there's also been a kid in that storm. I was already like a riding that weird wave and I think I was already like rebelling in my own mind and pushing it all away so in a way I was like a cue like I don't fucking care and cut my hair but the other thing that saved me is on on that show. I was never the pretty girl on that. Show the pretty girls were the guest characters. Were these glamorous. Pretty long haired girls and I was the the nerd on that show. That was my I was the no no makeup okay. We're big baggy sweaters. So there was such freedom and power in that I got to be funny. I got to be a sad. I got to be stupid. The girls had to come on. I remember this one particular girl won't say her name but I remember her coming on and thinking. Oh my God she is so pretty. I remember being jealous. I remember thinking he's GonNa think she's really pretty but I remember watching going. She's so uncomfortable because she has to be pretty and I don't have to be pretty at all. I just have to be. What Am I? Yeah yeah so it was Kinda good but very ironic because and I don't think this is my own personal proclivity but you are certainly one of the cues people on TV period. So I can't even imagine. I imagine that there were people that were cast against you. That were more elegant or glamorous but I don't know like when I go in those in that era of like auditioning and doing all that stuff I would be told over and especially if it was like a superhero movie thing. They're like don't forget where very high heels a really padded Bra I I got I got the first five times. Nobody would get it and then get another pet bro. Put it. Yeah yeah got it. But that's the cool thing about nothing twenty anymore like you just kind of listen I mean we all have our own stuff but the at least I look at my girlfriend's I think they're prettier now than they ever were. I think H- like now they just look so good to me. Sure I don't know anyway. I think you do in the Americans whether it was consciously or not was a way for you to go on not playing that game the game where my beauty is my ah asset and I feel like the Americans was like a really maybe now. In retrospect smart thing neglect. No no I'm going to be like James Gandolfini. I'm just GONNA be fucking powerhouse awesome. That's GonNa be the thing you want for me. But that was all such a surprise I was in the middle having kids and small kids. This is when Americans yeah came your way and and I mean I wanted to do something good but I didn't. I wasn't ambitious enough to be chasing every little thing. I have a much more. Some would argue not upgrade philosophy on it. I have a much more zen thing about it idea about trying to force anything. Don't try to force if it comes my way like I kind of believe in like the flow oh of it. That's how it calms. There's one little thing I want to ask win. Felicity ended. You moved to New York. Yeah what motivated that flip. Felicity was so great in so many ways. It was the first time I really felt like I was an actor. I love the story. I loved everything about it but I just needed a break. I knew I couldn't do it anymore. More and there was certainly money to be made in the great opportunities. But I knew the I needed to just check out for a minute and I thought maybe I'll go to school. What do I want to do and so I took a little bit more than a year off maybe a year and a half? I was the only one of those kids who didn't buy a big house or didn't buy fancy NC car and so. I just thought I'd saved all this money. I had no time to spend money on that show. Eighteen hours a day. You know so I moved to New York where a couple of my really close girlfriends lived and got this great apartment in the West village and just acted like a kid. While just GonNa say were you starting to feel like. Oh Wow if I don't take guitar out right now. I'm in the machine on the conveyor belt and it's just all GonNa pass by me and I never had my own real life quote real time and I just think I just wanted to like be able to show up for birthday parties and go out dancing with my girlfriends and be drunk and do basic things and real life things that that I was craving to yours so fun twenty four when I know I was probably. Oh Yeah. Oh yeah so maybe I was more like twenty six twenty six in your single single all my God and you're going out dancing so fun. Oh my goodness would think it'd be so crazy and like kind of salacious sexual but you know what the real beauty of it was my girlfriends just being able to be there and hear about all their dates and I fucking talking love that we would watch the bachelor. Just come out. It was so fun and it was just like I got my life back and that's when I very first start going in dates in the but that's such a fun city I'll find. You can look into not super poor like I had enough money to have an it was such a rate time in your in the thick of it with three kids. Are you just like a man. I could go for just a weekend in that apartment three times a day. Yeah hit but you're you're really a serial monogamous right. You've got a long term relationships along there's so many times I'm like date Moore one and they just like take every opportunity. It was such a good girl. Why do they do that? Yeah I tried it for like a half a second win in New York and I was like. It's not that that fun. No right but it's not really fun to do actually like hang out with strangers. You don't really like yeah. I kind of agree. Yeah but some people love it. That's that's under that's true. Some people of it. Yeah all right so no I like oh no you know what you know you know what you know okay so back to you get a script assent to you. I assume that's the Americans and it's on Fx. Do you know the producers and anyone and we naive to matthew as I was I had met him once before I met him ten years before. Where in Rustic Canyon at a kickball party of that's where you're were way to meet Senate parking lot at do you know just has been no? They have a kickball party every year. I don't know if they still do this is I hope and I was moving to New York that fall so I showed up at the end and then everyone was leaving. The Sun was setting and there were these two Welsh guys in the parking lot and we have beer left. We have beer laugh come over here. sat in the parking lot. No kidding so when the surp- floating floating his name are you do you go like oh I met him. He's a great hang. No memory of no memory of him you you since you previous breakthrough were down the line. we were already in like com- like training with each combat training like sweaty in boxing. All these things and I remember him us like eating Sushi lunch or something. Whatever sweaty and he's like you know we've met and I said no you haven't unease like yeah we have is like We went to a kickball party. The and I opened a bit. I was like Oh my God and lightning flooding. They knew exactly. The way was as like you left me a drunk message. Oh so exciting. Site Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers years ago and I told him that stories like he really plays the long game. Play at at the C.. You in ten years. That's here's a free beer. Elsie and ten. We'll knock out six seasons amazing show together. We'll have a kid okay. So you read the Americans and you love the pilot. Obviously I assume I liked. I didn't know where it was going to go. Okay so this is my statement about the show. I've been purged. Many many the people who watch it and this is what I say to people. Watch Americans just get through the first four or five episodes by the way but no no. I'll tell you the exact moment. Okay attach things off. Okay I say you'll watch it in the first four or five you'll be like it's a good show. It's a well made good show it's well acted and then someone's in a phone booth and then they get taken by ether from behind and pulled out of the phone booth. I think it's you. Oh Oh and they and that motherfucking show takes off from that moment. That show does not let up for like thirty some when we're like in and they're like like kidnapped yes yes fighting. The Jess and I was from that moment. Just from that fucking from behind ether to the face I was like what and then the the stakes that you guys maintained how they did it. They were so so great. It's such a great show to binge too because you just want more episodes. Ah Good Matthew. I don't know that I've ever had such a like an experience just gaining so one over by somebody in such a short period of time I feel I like that is him. Is that him general. He's cool to get your Seth Meyers says. He plays a long game and he does he does he does. There's a sexiness to him. There's a so like crazy sexiness. So goddamn see how he does it he just he just has that he has some kind of internal confidence finance. That's the gravity he is like he's like down and he just like has this thing. We'll be anywhere. I remember being I dunno with some fancy like met ball one of those. Yeah stupid things. And Diane von Furstenberg comes up to us and she's just like crazy and like do whatever she does talking and she's like you. I I watched you on a plant. People just like zero in on him and I'm like that's his currency wave length of it. Yes oh I like it a lot. Stay tuned for more armchair expert if if you dare we are supported by me entity entity ended a young me me. I'm days now. Listen by this time of the year are the planners and Virgos are the world of checkup everything on their list while the rest of US last minute people run around like psychos trying to figure out what to get everyone but don't fear fell last minute. Gipters me on these. Has Everyone on your list covered. It's the one stop shopping spot to get gifts that people will actually love. I love them delivered straight to your door free shipping no buts about about it. I already purchased a whole bunch of me and said I'm giving people or you did. What patterns did you lean more towards winter holiday okay my dino panties are my favorite still the whole euro closing out the year? Two thousand nineteen detainees are favorite. Meat is your favorite of the year. Absolutely my I think are they sent me just plain purple pair. I really right back to the base. 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If you're interested in the hybrid model visit PACIFICA INDEX DOT COM to receive a thousand dollar incentive offer on a PACIFICA DIFFICU- hybrid model. That's P A C. I F I see A and DAX DOT com. uh-huh okay so let's just get show for one second because I have some questions about what's interesting is that you're playing a Russian who is was living in as as an American cracked and then within that your plane many different characters because you have to kind of go undercover and convince certain people that you're someone that that you're not and did you even think about the fact that okay. Elizabeth can't be as good of an actor as Kerry like I have to have some delineation between how good of an actress Elizabeth versus. How good does that make any sense? Of course yeah I know yeah like we can't just assume Elizabeth there's like a world class act or when she goes undercover yet. She has to be good enough that we know she's an amazing agent. Because I think the reality is no no no. They're not being the same person just in a different place. Different information. Yeah I do think Matthew is so good as a chameleon we could suspend all of that to let let him fly sorta seems a little too good so good but he is an actor. I feel like their technicians missions as actors. And then what I do kind of. Isn't that like I skate by doing this. Other thing that I can do every once in a while but I don't wake up every day and thank God I haven't acted gotta get out there and Roman readings. I'm like ooh trial these my German accent this week. It's not who I am. I love stories. I like truth and I can swing it occasionally but matthew is that he is like law law it is what he does he's good at it. He's a chameleon like comes alive a little bit so he on that show was ideal but yes that that was what was his last night he said to me he was reminding me about some serious and it was like season one and and I had to wear some crazy. 'cause I mean that show. You're about to say what I could show you. I've written on paper maybe lies. You're right you're right here here. You know it's unique situation for Chris. NOCCO watch a show as actors because we're thinking about a were sucked into the show but then we're also really aware of how the sausage is worse so you literally one of the things I wrote down was about this and I think it's basically exactly what you're just going to say that Matthew reminded reminded you of you sometimes head your most heartfelt and important scenes in crazy wigs with Philip. Matthew in huge glued on mustaches and wigs eggs. There was one scene in particular. This whole season is is leading up to this confrontation that you will have. I can't remember the the particulars the scene but it was the most important scene of the season and you guys are both in deep deep disguise in this show like how did not take you out of like. You're talking to a guy with the big crazy mustache on all of a sudden it's curly little wig. That's only what he looks like to number one in the first season which we were all getting getting used to it and I was also so in love I was so. That's also the other thing I wanNA say about math. And you know my life was taking a turn regardless it had been in many years in the comings and I was experiencing this huge league life changing kind of feeling alive again and I'm so glad it it was him that was there because it could you know it's truly it's always you in life right so it was me going through it but I'm I'm so glad he was the one to be there because it was such a good person. Listen to so to answer question rather disguises number one. In the beginning they would make us laugh uncontrollably. I have one. This disguise is in the first season particularly which we're supposed to have like a really serious scene. And he calls it my John Denver outfits like this like Blondie and he's like that is so hard core at that and so we would laugh uncontrollably pinching myself trying to not and then there were other times which we were just laughing about last night we were having a really serious conversation. He was telling me something per carry in Matthew. Were having a conversation I I something like hardcore about the life. Remember about that conversation. We're having you addressed in this crazy Outfit is like Elvira with black. Red Skirt looked up. Why how are you because there there were so many but it was also so fun and so sexy I mean it was so fun? Yeah it is it weird to be falling in love with someone in working so closely with them every day. I mean it's it's fun I can assume but what about like yes scenes were. He's with other people. Is it hard to separate at that time when you're falling in love well no because when you're falling everything's everything's fine gravy sort of it's like it's the best thing ever. It's like the best feeling of all time but you know a working relationship unshipped. Yes is very hard right. I'm like hey what are you going to go all right. The girls giving blow job in a car exactly. Yeah that's fucking time ever. Yeah Ah Yeah it. Imagine it's easier when it's new because the all the emotions are so heightened in the feeling so heightened and you're like oh if this person feels half of what I feel about them. I'm not too threatened by the totally girl. The other scene. It's just later as things you know they dissipate in real life. Takes over and someone's going to pick up so and so that some six months at home you can't pick up. You can't pick them up from preschool. What are you doing? What are you going to three ways? You're in a three way. Yeah all right cool now. Monica and I have discussed many times. What the show was about the American? Yeah Monica was the one who said you know what this whole show is about loyalty. There's all these layers of loyalty like really makes you examine the layers of loyalty our oil to a partner. Are you loyal to your children. A loyal to country and of course it was always so frustrating for for me. I wanted you guys to be in love. I wanted you to defect. I wanted you to be Americans if I wanted to put your children above that and I wanted you to recognize that the Soviet experiment was not working. And I don't know why you're fighting for but undoubtedly that is the the ranking for many people. It's like God country family or maybe it's country God family or whatever their orders for me like family fuck everyone else so was it at all challenging for you because I can't imagine your love for the USA trump's your love for your real life three children but that's not our country. You know what I mean. It is such a different different personality. It's an intense because it's such offering such such suffering during that period you can think of I mean I know Israelis are are different for different reasons But there is a a tied to country that we do not have. That's true at this point. We we don't we haven't had to have it right and I feel like it's something we see. It's very difficult for Americans to understand you right. You don't have to have it. We'd but it's not in our a culture of high historic moments that they've defined the cultural character around right like there is each of Lenin granted defeating. Airman's that you you think. What are the numbers that the Atkins had something back? A couple hundred thousand that died right in May loss millions during Day One World War Two. Yes but you taught in America. Oh Yeah we did we won. We freed Europe. Didn't we yes. Ask millions yeah. Just through yeah attrition in determination and they didn't have the right that they they were outgunned in many ways out technology and they just just had will but so it was it was an interesting dynamic to play with and obviously is unique to understand but you just have to kind of so. What mental antle gymnastics did you because we all love the characters we play on TV even on shows where like my heart's not all the way in it? My heart is in the character. I'm playing I self fighting these battles that ultimately often they're right the show runners like you need conflict in my probably objectives always to make myself look good or or in my character to do good in that. It's not great for story but protective over your character so i WanNa know you ultimately you kind of became the friction in peace of standing in the way of maybe matthews character. Just being an American happy family right. Yeah so did you ever but it was so fun to be a the girl and especially to be me coming from felicity and I feel like I was a nice pregnant mom for about twenty years of my career. Who can we get? Who's GonNa Nice? He's got her she's pregnant talking. She's so nice I did a lot of that. So you're who really enjoying getting to play because that was the trouble with it at the beginning I thought Oh God she's so unlikeable but then I realized it's not about being unlikely. She really believes this is she believes us and for her daughter to come home at like sixteen and say this is going to be a Christian is so ridiculous like that so it means nothing. It's like nonsense. And how did I raise this person if so fun and it was so fun to get to be nasty was sort of the mushy week one. Yeah I was GONNA say it was a little a bit of a a gender flips fun. Yeah I feel like Elizabeth was just more black and white about everything. There was no greats like this is what's right and this is what's wrong. My biggest conceit for me was the Philip Character. Kept saying would is to protect our family and we need to be here and my argument was always. Elizabeth is the better spy because it's black and white. You're going to get our family into trouble the year so wishy washy and have your hands and so many different things and taking care of people in all these things and you're putting our family in danger by doing that. Where as Elizabeth was very clear and therefore like the better soldier was the better on all of it it it was so physical there was so much? Ask kicking your so believable as someone who could kick absent from parts of the dancer so were yes yet looked really incredibly and plausible. Like so often. I see these fight scenes. I'm just like I'm not buying that for half a second. This is like they just danced a little bit and now someone's down in there for good but you're you're stuck with them and it was ill all my was at wonderful. Some great love making scenes in that we had a conversation the other day on this show. About how many directors weirdly are like super confident with shooting violence and stuff. But they're real uncomfortable. Love making stuff. But the lovemaking stuff in the Americans was top notch. It was really beautiful like it wasn't ever corny or the perfect level of super sexy excellent. Good I'm glad to loyalty. I was just going to ask. It is loyalty. I mean I I but to me it was just a show about marriage and I feel like the spice metaphor it. It just like it allowed every stake to be raised. You know about trust loyalty cheating. I mean everything. Yeah at. It's crux to me. It was always a show about marriage. One of those storylines. I found most intriguing. Who's the actress is now on A? She's on Ozark now. Julia Garner Julia Garner that whole storyline. Hurry Matthew I found to be so intriguing. Kristen wiry and throws it up. Well I'll tell you because I had this whole feeling about it and I had to really spend time to understand what it was about it. Okay so so fill up. Matthews character has is to hang out with this young girl I think on the show. She's fifteen or sixty nine. Yes in he is on the show what he's supposed to be thirty eight or something thirty five and and so immediately you're like well. This is highly inappropriate. So let's just start there but then these scenes you I would get so sucked into them and I would have this desire for them to be in in these things together and I was saying that Chris. I'm like what is going on right now. I'm Mike Obviously. Don't want any thirty eight year old man to hook up with a sixteen year old girl. Get these scenes or doing in something to me anyways after lots of thinking about it what I realized was the appeal of it was he was time traveling. So there's nothing Raunchy going on with him but he was in join because he was his life was so so much responsibility and he'd go into her house and smoke weed and they'd get the munchies. They they'd laugh and giggle and eat and all all that and that was the thing that I was like. I think we all desire to time travel to feel sixteen again and smoke weed and just blitz loss of responsibility wants ability to loss of responsibility and also like the recapturing. The notion of like the sky's the limit that you have your whole life ahead like everything's kind of exciting and interesting interesting and so. That was the thing that I was like envious of him. Not that I want to hook up with the sixteen year old but that I want to have a sixteen year old transport me back to being sixteen and do you think either because older men are constantly like taking a second wife. WHO's down twenty thirty years younger? Do you think that's what it is. You know. I do think a lot of those guys. Yes they'll say she makes me feel young again right and so yeah on the surface. It's like I'll just this pervy thing and it's it's our society for whatever reason permits that encourages does Brown upon it. Whatever but I don't know that it's yeah as simple as just Oh? They're attracted to young people as much as they're attracted to feeling young again that moment in time yes in that you can kind of absorb their experience or right piggyback on the I either looking at life now I also think that would get really annoying very quickly to me right like just the. There's so much work when you're that young you're constantly evaluating where you're at in the world old in our I should be here and I'm not here and I should be there but that stuff I couldn't imagine suffering through with a younger partner right. That would drive me bonkers. Yeah but there would be aspects of it. I think that would feel time traveling but I understand in fact I feel like they used that amazing van Morrison Song sweet wheat thing and it has a feeling that psalmist aljic feeling of an have him coming home you know and I think that is what they were capturing but they they were also pushing the envelope of like are they gonNA fuck off so yeah it's interesting and I don't WanNa get bogged down in the metoo conversation but I I do wonder if that story line would have been pitched just two years later No I don't think it would have been and I think it's time and I think it's a really powerful story story line and I liked it. I don't know what else to say like very I was very nervous the whole time there was just so many things about it that were high stakes. But I think well I like having thought explosion but I remember one time with my ex husband the carpenter. I remember saying to Shane. We were talking about you. Know like Who He would have sex with or something pass or he said Oh? Do you like that guy that guy and I was like look if I'm GonNa fuck anyone on your crew is it's going to be showing the plumbers eighteen year old son Summerbee. I like these like and I remember Shane laughing. So so hard about that but what I was saying was it. was that kid time like like. It's that feeling of endless opportunity. Yeah yeah so I do understand that. Yeah it's really really titillating okay. Star Wars Star Wars the rise of skywalker. Before this you did. Burn this on Broadway with driver now. I understand musicals are harder in at the output. Th The toll on your body's probably harder but that aside the the schedule I I don't think I could ever do it. It's a beatdown of a schedule. Isn't it down. It's rough right like I feel like I weighed like eighty pounds. Yeah and and also you know what bottom line when you have little kids you got to put him down at night. Yes when they talk things especially now I have a twelve elvir old a seven year old and a three year old but the twelve year old. That's when you hear anything they come home school and they're like like okay. Do you invite me over to get real mom. Okay so you have to put them down and you know that was hard I I really. That was hard not to mention it was just such an emotional dark play anyway. I mean I start the play crying I it's just like sobbing. You're you're being yelled at and Sunday morning. I was like this again Someone else fucking yell at me today. Jesus Christ well that is over one thing too that Americans as well were you able to shrug that stuff off you know. Yes the Americans you know when you're filming so compartmentalize you can walk off and have a cough like you check out whatever. Check out for a minute and you have to do that. Hard thing for a really concentrated amount of time a finite amount of time there's something going to replay it just like reliving it and reliving every living. Ah Yeah Yeah I mean maybe maybe. That's why I'm not like a true true because there was a certain point where I was like just felt like a and it was the nature of that play anyway. Mike character punching bag on being yelled at constantly. I was just like I do think there's something energetically to it. You can't be yelled at at a certain point. I was like the fucking back. Now Yeah did. Jj Director Star Wars. Yes we did it so it was all over. The world was an England where was in in London and in Pinewood where they shot the original. Oh were you a star wars person. The original totally you are. I can't imagine you've ever worked on anything that had that scaled. How did it? I mean mission impossible's obviously huge but star wars. That's like it's just the biggest I ever to be the biggest circus ever and the amount of artistry and creativity and money that goes into every little. It's kind of the way they used to make movies John Huston movie or one of those movies where you go and you just you're gonna GonNa live somewhere for a year and you're gonNA dive in and you know even when I was fifteen in doing big Disney movies like honey. I shrunk the kids it was sort. SORTA the same. You'd have to go into a costume fitting. It was on a lot now. It's all sort of cobbled together in a great way to independent film and they don't make movies like that anymore and star yours is so that I would be flown into four or five fittings in they would die the fabrics. Then go no should be this and we should have this medal able to create this. It was so it's a real creative thing instead of time travel and you're inexperienced that just doesn't really exist doesn't they. Had the best of all worlds. Because I wasn't on it all the time so what I did is I would fly in. Matthew was doing a project in Northern Ireland. We had all the kids. Is it like this great house grab all around and then I would fly in on my own for like two nights had like a great hotel room. It's a fancy. Dinner is how is so nice and then go back to the grading back to the grind three-year-old yelling. We everyone screaming at each other and then I I would do two weeks somewhere and I went back just before Christmas and did my other two weeks so it was. Oh One and you've seen it I haven't i. I have the opportunity to see it tomorrow night but I'm like do I want to see it was like four people. Do you WanNa see star wars with four people want to see with an audience. Yes yes yes. Is it exciting. It is fun you know because it's the first thing that my twelve year old legitimately thinks cool right and by the way not Ativan that cool. He's like Let's cool thanks. We have the kids could care less Christians and frozen so that's just the nature of the nature of the beast. How old are yours now? Foreign six bucks Cernan five and a couple of weeks so four five and six well. What's the birthday December nineteenth because I have a December twenty seven? Oh you do. And she doesn't quite yet understand. What a like? She actually just said to me waiting for my birthday so I'd like to do this but no one's coming. No one's in town especially in New York City Great. We'll see what we can work out. Yeah so mine's January second which is terrible. It's bad birth but at least they'll diseases before things worse to have it just after Christmas you just got. Ah We're done. We have fatigue. James Second. People just made their New Year's resolutions. They don't drink they don't want to eat they want like they're supposed to be at the fucking workout Kaushik four hour fitness instead of medicine. That's right okay. I won't last question. This is a question from my wife. Okay when I said I was coming to talk do you today. She wants to know if you've gotten thin shamed over your career thin shamed yet if you've gotten accused of having eating disorders and stuff over your career. There was a time when I remember someone saying she looks really skinny. But you know what I am a thin like Joe. Yeah and you you know when I get stressed out I get skinny like when I was going through my divorce. I got really skinny. Ah Yeah so but it seems like people can't win in any way it's like okay so nothing that you really are like just stop evaluating my weight nothing like where you felt like it was not troublesome to you not troublesome I mean I'm not visible enough in a great way back to what we started this conversation. I never had social anxiety. I'm an extrovert. I loved going parties. I love talking to people in holding in court and certainly over the last seventeen years or whatever I've developed social anxiety I too will go to a bathroom and just fucking sit in there for like forty five minutes. Let's say twenty five people at some big party. I just start getting really uncomfortable and a couple of different times of Kristen. I've started in the bathroom. And I'm in there for forty eighty five minutes and then they just leave out the back door and texter. I've walked back to the hotel like you can take the car. I've walked back up done that. Probably a half dozen times so enact started it is an extrovert. So it's interesting. Yeah I think even if you aren't extroverted can be uncomfortable so I can't imagine your favorite thing is yet to be recognized. Maybe I have to say. I'm pretty lucky. Like people are generally pretty nice to me. Yeah Yeah you know for the most part. We'll you certainly delivered into my expectations because we had that great interaction action at the night before party. I really interact getting Dr Ongoing. She is so she talked way too much. I adore like her and Chris and I both were like well. She's Goddamn lovely is against and then we fell in love with Americans for that so it was all just icing on the cake and We wish you luck with this movie. I doubt it will do very well. But Star Wars the rise of Skywalker December twentieth or having bring the Ken down. Yeah I adore you and You know everything was true. She was really with Tony. Monica owning and now my favorite part of the show the the fact check with my soul mate Monica Batman welcome to carry fact check. He sent me a tax before she came and it was very spunky. There was. It's a it's Russell. Yeah I loved it me too and then thank you guys should be bros.. I mean I know that there's a geographical issue impediment. Yeah Challenge. 'cause she's on the east coast of this great country and you're on the west coast the best coast well. The best goes is the fresh coast Lake Michigan. That's goes least-cost don't you dare say and I'm from there so I can say it. Would you consider Atlanta East Coast. Yes Oh my God. Yeah I mean this fire so many me. We're GONNA fight. We might see eye to eye. I've just gotten in this fight. So many people where they would say the south. It's still on the east coast. It could be the south and the East Coast because Savannah goes right up to the water. All kinds kinds of the Georgia goes up to Georgia. Coast Oh did you guys spend a lot of time on the Georgia Coast Grownup moms from Savannah. My grandparents live there. I spent all my summers there. Okay what does that on a river on the ocean. Now I've I've stood on a bridge of stood on a bridge in savannah and watch the logs come down. They float those logs down that river. uh-huh really sight to see the everything's clogged up with logs. But as going acids land is like a big toilet shots in there. The aliens might think that I bet they do from that high up. It looks like a tiny toilet with lots of yes yes anyway. It's East Coast America. Okay and and also the south right also the south-southeast just like New York is the East Coast and the nor right right so guys relax us. Somebody's Shelton on our field trip guide on another field trip. I'm Rudy Giuliani. Works base camp here. Wow He works a lot of jobs saarbergwerke. Things are working out for him. I'm a lawyer but I appreciate the he's like you know what that's not GonNa stop me. I'M GONNA get a job onset I'm still a TV show living. And I'm going to have one of the kind of overworked underpaid. Appreciate your jobs in America's status lo stat. I I don't think he could get hired as a PA on a movie currently probably not probably not right. Isn't that interesting that you could have been the mayor of New York. Maybe the the ones that film in the East Coast Georgia you think they would let him be a PA.. Someone take great pleasure and not permitting him to have entry level jobs. They here's fans. Yeah voice very famous. We both know who we're talking about. Rudy Giuliani Mayor Giuliani. We've is GONNA be. We both know we've been talking about what I'm saying. Is We know that who were talking. Oh I smear Guliani. Everyone knows them. Yeah you far. I think it was a part bobby. Wab farted now you fart and blamed it on Robbie will know when I I take responsibility for it over. History of it of taken. Responsibility didn't publicly on air. What do you mean? Pardon Vernon Liz point. Oh sure but that seems like you probably couldn't have blamed it on anyone like it was very clearly you. She felt the air well but I immediately you said it was me in front of everyone I think of. I took a hit for that but I earned the respect that own it. That's fair I can't be your full bowl loss across the board. I have showed some integrity lack of integrity by farting in public but then integrity by claiming responsibility. When you say if it wouldn't have been loud have blamed it on me if it just smelled? Ed I was teasing. I really do that. I would have blamed her imparted and smells. Smelly you smell thank you steffan something. Is that what you would have done. Monica if you find it in your said Oh I think I stepped in dog poop now l.. I would've just been silent addressed. It definitely would know said. Oh I'm sorry I did that. Do you think anyone carries around novelty not store poop and then just they just throw it on the ground and then put their foot over and go. Oh Man. If someone's like got a real the problem with toots. I like that plan. I think it's a good plan. Pretty good plan Should we tell the listeners. The update of the House Saga. It's complete auto. Yes Monica got her house now. Wabi and Monica homeowners as very exciting. It was such a long time. You went to a court house and actually did a live bid we it had to auction for it in the courthouse. It was extremely exhilarating rules scary traumatic awhile. PTSD and you were with your mother. The AKERSON came with me. She was a bit of a secret weapon. And I have a little bit of remorse. You do for bringing her you do well. It was not fair. Well it was not fair art house. They say that war. I would go to war for it. I was technically at war. Technically engaged in a war when we arrived there. This said Room two three four the war. The war is now ready and the judge hit the gavel and let the war commence commence right but how I got imagine it's a very low percentage of people on planet earth who have stood in a courtroom bid on something. You're the first person I've ever met. That was in that situation. It was exciting. I felt like new ground so we had to go down the line and Sarah last name yes or no to each bid as it was increase increasing. It wasn't like a man to come back. Yeah wasn't that I wish it was but it was more of a civil war war. Oh well where we were angry civil. Oh civil yeah. They're acting civil as soon as we started my competitive gear kick take Dan did. Yeah like I wonder if I would a loss because I don't have the the the heart of a winner like you. Yeah it turned run into real competition and they didn't know I was super experienced in competing. What do you think your heart rate was at during this did it get despite? I'd say. Two hundred no else it was it was very elevated. Yeah okay any perspiration don't think people could tell I was very cool under fire. Okay I've seen your veins you said the other folks were showing their cards a little bit. They were wearing their emotions on their sleeve. Only wants to go towards the end news fair competitor my rival rival okay but then towards the end you could hear it. In his voice he was starting to quest gin and crumble and crumble inside out okay and I I knew it I was like oh I just feel glee that you defeated your opponent or did you feel bad for him. In the moment or not. In the moment I fell. I only felt victory. I didn't even feel happy about the house. Just the victory. It's like okay I want. Oh I won I won. Oh I want I won you lose. No I was just like oh my gosh. Wow okay. That's over. I one and then everyone's like congratulations. Congratulations that's a great house. Oh Yeah right you just saw red. Oh Yeah my howls. Howls Miami? I don't want it and just wanted to win. What if you sold it to the guy immediately after for a loss cut a dog? I just wanted to win. I like winning and but then later that night you started thinking about his feelings and yeah I do. I feel sad that they they lost something they wanted and they put in the amount of time. I put into this which is a lot so I felt bummed out for them but also they're gonna find their house house. That's there's that's meant to be that they love but their family doesn't live next door that I know of right mind does that's right and we are going to be all Elon. Musk if you're listening. I'm sure you are for your huge fan of the show. We want you to bring your boring equipment over and we would like to to drill a tunnel from our house to Monaco's channel channel that's between the Channel And when we as boring equipment man he's not doing a judgment on your equipment like Oh. That's born yawn now now. It's a the actual mechanism bore a bore. Yeah into the ground. We need that. I would love a tunnel but you know what I'd be scared of that tunnel you were. Oh Yeah No. The only entry points were our our houses. I'd be scared of collapsing. Oh okay well. What if it was reinforced with some concrete with rebar Elon? Musk is doing it. All feel pretty confident bent not experience and channel buildings. He does yeah boring. Companies done quite a bit of boring all right. Well that's very exciting company company. Okay well that was a big update for everyone. H And r block all the pain and strife led me here. Yeah Yeah you're here. Okay Kerry I love that. She has spent so much time in Michigan and has reverie for it. Yeah she really likes it yes me like her more. Okay you like my home state. Wow that's very selfish view so she your mom Tom mccarey. Oh yeah that was so sweet that carry remembered it is sweet and it's so funny. Your mom has spoken so many words. It's about you to all these random. It's basically your worst nightmare you know like when you're a young actor in your mom's out saying you know my son it's pretty much your worst fear. But I'm ED vantage point in life. That is very cute off and I most certainly would do it. If Lincoln was in show business and I was meeting Yang show-bizzy speedboat. Do you know my daughter Lincoln. Yeah that's it's very cute. Okay so Dan you you touch on the Dan savage study about controlling for slut shamed safety. So I'm going to read. What dance exactly? Okay there's a study where they sent attractive young women on a college campus and offered anonymous sex and ninety eight percent of the guys said yes and they reverse that that and all the women said no then they redid the city in Germany and controlled for violence slut shaming rape and. They did it with computers and showed pictures and said you know. These people are at the end of the hall. No one will ever know. You won't be harmed. There'll be no violence and women were as likely as men yes. That's what dance. I believe there was a big difference but I do still find it hard to believe it was equal. Well I still hanging onto that bit of you. Just refuse to hear that part. No I mean do do you have that at all. Do you have any residual like it's one thing to learn something new but to like stomach it on a cellular level where you're like. Yeah I knew it I still go like I would expect the number to double or quadruple drubel. Or whatever when you control for those elements. But I wouldn't have predicted or expected to be on par with guys chair. I get that you guys are fucking. Vacuum cleaners liners. And they're fucking like holes in the Dir- you know just just my experience. A boys growing up is like you know these are called. ABOR hyper hyper these. These are college kids. So they're not they're probably not at the like sticking their penis in the dirt away. I think they've gotten over that part but I see see what you mean. Well you know I tell you when I was very young ice but my peniston the toilet paper roll holder share because it was circular and I was like Oh that might feel good how over you I was eleven and it was a circle shape. Seem like oh I should put my penis in there. Because that's cylinder. How did you even know? Oh about you already knew about you already had sex by then. Oh no not almost way later. This is the very short well owners. Yeah a losing only a year or two after you first started getting Boehner said so rare now on the yeah right well. Yeah I don I well It's hard to remember exactly. I'm sure I got that Boehner's all the time. I'm sure he got like Boehner's got Boehner writing that moped I told you and I certainly got bones but but the very first sexual feelings feelings were. I want to say at the end of fifth grade beginning of six great where I was like. I think I told you had a dream that I had sex with a rock on the way to school. What do you do not just like I had I used to walk by this huge rock in my neighborhood expert on the corner and I had no sexual feelings towards this rock at all but I had a dream where I had a boehner and I was humping the raw in the dream it was. It was pleasurable and I assume it was probably humping my mattress mice lease sure and then when I woke up and I had all these confused feelings like I had a desire to grind up up against that rock and then I walked to school that day and I looked at that rock but I didn't have any attraction to the rock once I saw it in person but all all that happens so I'm just saying something is like Gnawing at me. Yeah starting in Fifth Grade I believe and I mean I feel like Komo. Sixth grade people were like doing stuff under the bleachers by the wayside. If my mother at some point on her deathbed it said to me your three years older than we told you you are. I would believe I wouldn't be shocked because I was suspiciously bigger than everyone and then I had sex at twelve which may be really except fourteen or fifteen now. I'm just I'm not. I'm not saying I think that's what happened. But if she said that certain things things would make sense see. You think you're forty seven on my forty seven or so. We already established on the last fact. Check that you are actually actually younger. You look young only look a couple years older than me who looks twenty four mount true not true true yes it is. We'll thank thank you. It's not a compliment. Okay okay. I'm sorry I don't thank you and I'm and I'm sorry. What if your parents told you Monica? We have something to tell you. You're two years younger than we told. You also mildly believable right. Yeah Yeah but then I'd be like Oh my God that's great news. Fourteen or sites started kindergarten when I was two. Ah I would love what they said do you to go. We have something to tell you. You're of under kid. We want to tell you this before where we die. I would love that. Oh you're my whole life. I wouldn't be shocked at all. No one one set it with your really just twenty six twenty six. That was twenty six to thirty kindergarten at zero minus two mine in his two. That's not possible. I guess what if they bring a newborn baby to kick start putting you in a bassinet Richard that as well off sitting at a desk your first steps in third grade and now I was a wonder kid. That's right so I would have taken a map. Six months old any who I forget I was gonna say something. Oh I guess just sex. You had a so early. Yeah I apologize for what seizing a feeling that deserve like I'm supposed to say I'm sorry or I regretted or something but I don't no one's asking need to say that I think people are rightfully troubled by that. Well you can think of some twelve year olds where you're like. Oh my goodness the baby's yeah but I was five ten in one hundred and fifty five pounds. I mean it it just because you were a tall ends. I was already in the upper ten percentile of male sides. But that doesn't mean your brain was mature. Well I think in my case it was because I was under kid like the opposite. So you weren't a wonderful well if we could a kin and and you say wonder Kim I'm saying under kid I wonder if it's under kin or wonder kid I think it's I'm saying underpinned. Oh okay well. I think it's a German thing. Is Anna Funder under bar. I think it spell at the W. Right. They pronounced it. Just don't do that. I don't do accents right right right right. You don't do characters okay. She was in the Mickey Mouse Club. That's exciting all new Mickey Females Club. Yeah and that had Britney Spears Christina Aguilera Justin Timberlake Ryan Gosling goof go list goes on and on that's really where the lists stops. Okay now. There's a lot of people but I wish I was on it do. Yeah Yeah you would. You would have been great. Little loved loved it You would have played many miles a lot. Oh did they do look. I don't think they played. I don't know I've never seen a single episode. Ah We like Lovett and we wish we're on it but I've never seen single up so okay Tony Luca. He was on parenthood season to episode twelve called. Meet the new boss. His Song was called like love I'M GONNA listen to it. Yeah I'm GonNa love it you know that's where I get. Most of my music is watching. TV and then downloading song. I know I like this about you. It's a very cute thing that most of your music comes. TV shows you like well. I like it. Because there's there's a memory associate you connect a whole emotional tableaux to it. That's right speaking of that. I'll skip ahead 'cause she. She says that she thought they use the van. Morrison Song sweet thing in the scene and the Americans with the young fifteen year old. I remember a scene with the two to them and music so strongly and it was so impactful but it wasn't that song and then I looked it up and I don't think that's on is is in the show but this it's this song I'm GonNa play some of it. Wow this is great. K multimedia is it Cindy Lauper canny Lennox UH eurythmics Lewis. It's not really a guessing game. Oh Oh that's not the ARRHYTHMIC. Yes Oh yes yes yes yes yes simple. Eighties eighties music. They you just get on that cheap keyboard and they would bang out like three chords goofy since out and we loved it. I still love I love. I love that scene Yes sitting together together outside on some steps. Yeah they just seem so Kid like have you noticed I keep saying yeahs whereas instead of German I said yes probably six times didn't even notice that's how Utah you say. That was a yes. It sounds the exact shaking your heads pretty close shaking your ideas anyway. So music can really take things to a new level. Oh sure sure. People need to know that it'll push seen an emotional direction. Yeah so we talked about seeing movies by ourselves I like it I like it. It's nice yeah that's all. Aw Well I signed by myself this weekend. Yeah you saw parasite great great moving rate movie depressing back because I'm gave it an eighty seven. Oh my God. I don't like that movies in the ninety. Okay that's fine. I'll give ninety two. Okay great I can't give it a hundred you want me to give it a hundred. I want you to give some movies one hundred share. But that doesn't know we we have Salma Hayek. Like I'm not withholding the tens. Okay great yourself your prerogative I will never never give any one hundred dollars. Father Sixty two. Oh my trailer sacrilege huntings and ninety Andy Nine Monica Monica Monica. Don't act like it's not. Don't find me on gymnast. Should never get one hundred attempt. Perfect him kind of. Oh wow I mean not just wondering what it stems from. You can get a hundred on a task the them all the time. I got all the time. But you get Huntersville. You'll give hundreds the doll peg me out tax punched me once and it hurt. I punch you you do you. Three showed me at at three which was a tend to be funny. Let's just be clear all no. I don't. I just wanted to be painfully clear to everyone. Everyone listening that it was a joke. Shove and it was three. You Act like you acted like it was a Tan. Felt like a ten. I got bulldozer. I fell on the floor. My hair fell out or your hair fell out. Listen if I gave you a ten dot dot well yes because I apparently enhance your book is other people's hundreds because you gave me a quote uh-huh three I gave you a three and it was a seven hundred thirty l.. Is that no. It wasn't it was thirty percent capable of. Oh my God I could have three point one times dip terrorists say yeah I just got my score. Okay Well No. That's what you said is I mean ninety two and you WANNA stay there. I'M GONNA say Okay Ninety three. Oh Okay I don't think rob has these. These types of this type of scrutiny. Do you have any hundreds Probably Not Oh robs snobby on one hundred ninety nine no my name May minos anyway anyway back to serious parasite people should see that. It's about social class warfare. Affair discrepancies yeah the inequality within cloudy structure. It so good ooh okay okay So the Elephant Man's real name is Joseph Merrick. There we go yeah. People sometimes think his name is John. Well they do because there is this whole discrepancy. And you know how I know most about this. 'CAUSE Bradley's interview with Jimmy Fallon watched it. Yes I really you watched it so I mean I think everyone knows now because we talk about it on La La at Bradley Cooper went on any fallon to promote him doing the elephant man play and they're wearing these funny me hats from a previous bit and then they start laughing and they can't stop for like eleven minutes and they keep trying to talk about the serious play and then they're it's so funny and Infectious Anyway Joseph America's name. Okay okay you said the Russians okay. I was confused when you guys were saying about the Russians winning world you are till the Russians think they won World War Two that I know they did and then you're saying they did. Yes hey when you look at the thing that crippled Germany that that stop their momentum and change the entire course of the war. It was the stormy no Stalingrad. They were supposed to leave before. Winter came and Hitler who was now fully addicted to opiates and math and all this other stuff insisted they wade out the winner and fight on and he would not let them retreat and they lost just a humongous significant chunk of their forces in that battle. Isn't it was all downhill from there. Then then then we arrive on d day and then we win countless battles and just had had. They not made that decision in Russia. They would've likely been a lot more the victorious against us for a lot longer time okay. That's all that's all. Well I love you do you and hope one day you'll call me in your say just saw one hundred never never will happen. I love my era uh-huh.