27 Burst results for "Anil"
Kylie Jenner, Forbes spar over story on billionaire status
"Is so someone that usually benefits from the mall's been hurt a little bit Kylie Jenner the she's known for her lip kits and cosmetic line on a Kardashian one of the younger sisters all forums has now taken away her self made billionaire title she's not a billionaire they revoked the title accused her of lying about her finances and said her actual net worth is under a billion at just nine hundred million dollars well that's all that's all just she's just a hundred million dollar shorts that's all becoming a billionaire Anil but she's not a billionaire not yet hello this is she is she says they're wrong about this and she truly is a billionaire she's claiming that billionaire
Federal judge rules New York must hold June primary canceled over coronavirus risks
"Race Andrew Yang strikes again well there's an old timey name you haven't heard the inter Yang yeah no Yang is a disruptive force in the Democratic Party at least this week he is because remember New York state and its board of elections had canceled their democratic primary for June twenty third and said not we're not gonna have it anymore we've got Joe Biden don't worry about it and for the health and safety of our people are not gonna have this and that was widely seen as something of a coup attempt because Bernie Sanders made it really clear when he quote endorsed Joe Biden but he still wants his own voters to vote for him even though he's out of the race another reason for that is because he wants to crude delegate delegate strength by the time he shows up at the convention whatever form that takes but the democratic convention if he's gotten a lot of delegates behind him he can use that to advance the more socialist elements of the democratic platform that he's interested in seeing and then that's why Bernie was doing that so in New York it was believed that this was an effort to basically say never out we're not going to participate in this game we're just gonna try to get as many delegates as we can over to Joe Biden and Bernie you can go home but what ended up happening yesterday thank Dan thanks Dan regarding a lawsuit he filed he's a federal judge ruled that New York must go forward with its presidential primary the judge U. S. district judge Anil Lisa Torah's of Manhattan made the ruling yesterday evening that they will hold the primary in June and that tore as ruled in favor of Yang and the lawsuit as it was filed by young's office and the young lawyers said this quote this unprecedented and unwarranted move infringes the rights of plaintiffs and all New York state Democratic Party voters of which are estimated to be more than six million as it is fundamentally denies them the right to choose our next candidate for the office of president of the United States the court agreeing there and saying that this that the removing that Alexion merry was unconstitutional interesting that inter Yang we get involved in this the old Yang gang has not broken up they got the gang back together looks like that's right interesting I guess he's a he's a Bernie bro now I guess he's making it known that he is part of the resistance within the Democratic Party with this little move either that or he just likes getting votes you know he's like he still has his name on the ballot again alongside a bunch of other people you realize this you about this June twenty third ballot will include Yang Sanders Warren and Michael Bennett Amy Klobuchar Tulsi Gabbard Michael Bloomberg digest of all Patrick Tom's tire all their names are gonna show up on that ballot in New York in June and that every I released a statement yesterday said quote I'm glad that a federal judge agreed that depriving millions of new Yorkers of the right to vote was wrong I hope the New York board of elections takes from this ruling a new found appreciation of their role in safeguarding our
Trump to create second task force on COVID-19 economic recovery
"Now the president maybe putting together a second task force to help reopen the economy and he said that he's considering that focused on re opening the country's economy as the pandemic cases rise and is asked about a tweet that he'd sent earlier in the day responding to a tweet by Dana Perino suggesting a second task force focused on the economy thinking about it he said getting a group of people we have to open our country thank your cannot be worse than the problem itself we've got to get our country open he's right we do have to get the country open now there's a a I guess if you don't hold it once we realize that travel bans work gonna now travel ban the world I doubt it there will be risks associated with allowing people from other countries to fly into this country well now that we know that mitigation efforts and social distancing work and working from home does that mean we're all going to work from home now no it doesn't at some point we're going to get back into regular life at different points that we have to worry about some type a rebound from the virus unfortunately that is a part of life and you know mitigation efforts have clearly worked and are working and maybe even better than we first thought they would work but Austria now is the first the economy that they're beginning to look forward I know most Americans want to get back to work and I can tell you that everybody that I talked to a sick of being home at this point and as much as we might actually hate working at different points in her life not working as a a far less attractive alternative is you get for how many people you know the retire I'm going to play golf I'm gonna go fishing every day and talk to them three months later has retirement but socks they may not say it although it's great it's great you know but they get bored pretty quickly Anil lot of people end up evolving into some new challenge businesses adventure passion hauling in their life or you know those that don't tend to you know not be the happiest people you gonna run into in your life you need some type of purpose every day of your life you need to contribute some way in
An Interview With A Professor Of World Religion
"You know you you are a professor of world religions yeah you know a lot about a lot of different religion and to take about Africans average out exactly one of the things that and always as one of I guess somebody who know cook you know one of the things that I get about billion counter it is black people thank you that the three major religions that we know of Christianity Judaism is long up a hammock religious don't forget about ever have yes yes yes Hey Brian yep yes yes they think that these are white religions they take the people pick actually think that Christianity with be gone by white yeah I think the duty of the world book gone by white right you know that you think that Jews are ethnically bought a ethnic group as as opposed to being a religious that's right I mean if I was a political right also to prove what I mean help us with that man you dumb down my lane do it you know you're down my life so yeah the classes that I teach at that IDC and elsewhere I always emphasize that the book we call the Bible is an African book based on three basic of components one the land to the people treat the languages as we had to go right if you take a map you look at what's been described in the tanks the land masses from mother date the opiate to the outskirts of India that's still testament if you look at the New Testament that sum all round Palestine and all around the Mediterranean and then it becomes more Afro European but is Afroasiatic after European the the people migrated back and forth to play what we call all the new teslas same type of folk they brown of people like people most employed by Egypt and then of Babylon modern day Iraq then we'll look at the languages Hebrew is an Afro Asiatic language the Greek this use the New Testament is call Corneil Greek common we but is the particular idiom and as in northeast Africa and also the earliest text of the theology test Anil Latin which is that again all taking place in North Africa so no the origins of the book into the land people languages we can demonstrate it we can see it is African the permutation of it over time is it became European as in the same way lan people languages right so by the time we a re introduced to it and say that way by the time the reintroduce African people it looks like it's a European tex Lupe religion excel all three of the dimension but if you get on the need that English you see the court you for the call you hear that I watched you may just break down lack but break down the biblical text in here from every angle the different languages the different permutations of each languages I as long as your transfers I mean just fascinating actually I had an opportunity to to introduce you well one day of the what you call them we will deliver the Gulf Alexian Landau I'm honored to have been able to follow you wind up to do that is will only last year which is which is it yes it's an awesome because it is one of them but you you basically read the text the heat of the Hebrew text in Hebrew yeah because you you know what your body feel in here the the if you will the rap of it in the cadence of it when you hear the hit the review the rapids are you know on the need that English is is a is a cortex and I will be calling was translation is not really a translation is an interpretation is Islamic terror right and one of the things that really push hard on it that our people deserve better meaning our people need to know this because I believe fundamental to the PA reason for the deprivation that that the idea of not allowing us to read is precisely this once you read what you see once you know it for yourself that others have known for centuries then your mind is freed up new not been upon someone else's interpretation commentary and misconstrued interpretation by the bad design right but is that in in in in by design meaning that Europeans white folks mangle the text and present an interpretation that is at best there weren't and at worst insidious insidious malevolent well let's take a classic example the same came J. no different by the same King James to authorize a game J. version of the Bible for political reasons as the saying one of the authorized sixteen nineteen and twenty some odd African people landing in Jamestown Virginia as late as sort of it but as a slave purses that'll use all of that is one of them I'll use word is late and more because when I Slavic we weren't slightly right over to the not with the skilled people who a captain who did get paid right for you people who were captured in the end they did pay I'll be black he made a blow me off I you might want to get in on this please read of the of your brother band is really you monster rod about thirty maybe they'll be a
"anil" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"Beginning and there's a special reason for the beginning because ultimate goal is not going to do the same thing over and over and over and over again if because if you makes a somebody like a monkey and don't give them a choice to be other than a monkey thank you Sir for this the mystery of the donkey to die eight can you eat everything eight see each other so the the world we live in is of the world but the man came into and many came into this world having fallen and it cost out of paradise so to speak where we should all be one day please god we find ourselves it closed and Anil emotional animal nature we become what upset service we become what disturbs us we did we become upset when someone it is cruel to you and betrays you and we're gonna upset that yeah I have suffered.
"anil" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"It that is the beginning and there's a special reason for the beginning because ultimate goal is not going to do the same thing over and over and over and over again if because if you makes a somebody like a monkey and don't give them a choice to be other than a monkey thank you Sir for this the mystery of the donkey to die eight can you eat everything eight see each other so the the world we live in is in the world but the man came into and many came into this world having fallen and it cost out of paradise so to speak where we should all be one day please god we find ourselves it closed and Anil emotional animal nature we become what upsets us we become what disturbs us we did we become upset when someone it is cruel to you and betrays you and we're gonna upset that now.
Ohio Supreme Court to hear kindergarten bullying case
"Before the Ohio Supreme Court the Ohio Supreme Court there's a bowling case and this is gonna impacts of hundred thirty thousand Ohio teachers and possibly your kids and grandkids and that is this if a kid is bullied at school in the past bands of obviously how the Ohio Supreme Court votes on this your your kids bulleted school a teacher and principal the teachers and principals could be sued legally if they if the kids are a belated injure what happened was this the story started back Anil while going to lead up and other to kindergartners indicator girls got the fight they were separated later on one of the two was stabbed by the other with a pencil on the cheek and the concern there as well okay with the teachers have to do something to prevent a student from being attacked if not they would be liable under the eyes of Ohio law does that seem like a fair law to you joining any key hearing centers dot com hotline is Jason fell upon our former Butler County prosecutor and now a defense attorneys about his mother the show could have unique hearing center second hotline our thanks for having me on yeah right on the sill the I I think in in the in the sense of fair play looking to go wait a minute teacher a principal should be responsible if a kid gets bullied assaulted like this little girl in Toledo did that they should be on the hook legally does that does that even pass the sniffer test well they are legally liable and what the state law all right now says is that educators and of course teachers and and principles fall under that category are immune from liability last may act with malicious or wanton or reckless manner so another words negligent actions are protected under the qualified immunity that and I think you know basically they want to make sure that there are lawsuits all over the state bankrupting school boards but if it's if a teacher or principal act maliciously in bad shape or reckless manner than they are liable for a lawsuit but again is that that's kind of difficult bar right what what does that mean exactly could you give me an example of what I tell people all the time and there's the three state of Manchuria as the lead lawyers call if there's negligence there's recklessness and then there's intention and you know if I'm walking around with a glass of the party and I bump into someone it spilled that negligent if I put it on my head my start doing a dance and all the sale but I'm reckless and of course if I throw it on the ground unintentional so that those are the three basic perception so in this particular case that you brought up is if a teacher you'll turn the back wheel left the room but wasn't doing something may be intentional or reckless but something happened as a result then they would be protected under the qualified immunity now if for whatever reason they were militias they were fifteen and the bowling or they you know do there were issues and just didn't care maybe even put them together to see what happens then of course that's where it would go beyond that of a qualified immunity and they could be sued and so what happened in this case and to lead okay is that originally with the finance because the qualified immunity but that the appellate court said wait a second you should have some hearings on whether not the teacher was was reckless of the pool to negligent yes all right so in this case I I think about it all right let's say there's a couple kindergarteners they get a little verbal altercation Roberts okay stop you can't do that to your friend you know talk to him and he settled down a little bit later the one kid grabs a pencil and stabbed the other one on the cheek in this is the key this is the case that is before the Ohio Supreme Court Jason fell upon so in that case said that the kindergarten teacher did she or he acted a certainly wasn't malicious another goes bad faith but was there all wanton disregard was recklessness here in this case I didn't see anything in the and the articles I read that would rise billable reckless but I don't know if there's something else that maybe they didn't know about or something that's not in the article but you know right now it's pulling of the big issue especially with fiber bowling and I think the biggest will be over reaching yeah issue in this case is whether or not they're going to expand the liabilities of teachers and and printable coming street in teachers are under appreciated underpaid another there have all these extra responsibility that hello Sir like a third panel does not not what a teacher supposed to be and so if you're now putting them responsible for other kids actions that are clearly inappropriate I think that is a very it's a slippery slope you know what interesting take about ten years ago that the Supreme Court actually code on the same type of issue a a special needs student on a box was sexually assaulted by another student and the statute that I mentioned about qualified immunity there's an exception drivers if you if the bus driver was negligent in the operation crash or something like that you can sue the school and so they tried to expand operation of the bus to actually supervision of the students and the Supreme Court rejected that said that the unity the plight so I think at least ten years ago the Supreme Court held we're not going to extend liability because you know if your start Maszewo bus drivers and to you or you know they're up there what they tried to do to fix the problem the end there were acting appropriately but maybe you disagree that your have all these people that are gonna be school bus drivers were teachers anymore and if you're in bankrupt the school boards yeah I mean I I don't know so you can be you can be personally liable for neglecting something happens in the classroom you're supposed to be paying attention certainly that there's a mall and sometimes teachers ask maliciously we saw a case recently ask a few cases where a teacher started pummeling a student who was sitting there may be giving her mouth but and I get why the teacher sat but you generally it's frowned upon the two was physically solve the face a student who's sitting at a desk regardless of what they're saying or other acting in your classroom but in that regard though to you can you can mention cyber bulling because do you think some like this there's an ex that there could be an extension there because that to me seems like a whole different area it's the even though the schools address and cyber bowling and we'll deal with those issues you can police what happens I think that's unreasonable to expect schools to be able to somehow stop cyber boy exactly and then where does the liability stop so what happened to fiber bowling obviously Kurds outside the school and then something happened then that tied the score with that now the responsibility for but started inside the school and then that night someone sends a message on social media and the student commit suicide which we've seen issue that happened you know the school responsible for that I think at some point the people have to be responsible for their own actions and you know a school teachers printable they should take all reasonable efforts to maintain their classroom but if you start suing them over everything that a child an appropriate you know that that create a whole host of issues but digestion syllabus on the show this morning at seven hundred W. very slowly back at it on the queuing centers dot com hotline as the high Supreme Court is going to get really interesting case here came out of Toledo where couple kindergartners got a spat the teacher broke it up later one of the students assaulted the other should stab her cheek with a pencil and this thing is Rachel hi for print court of appeal and the question is whether or not educators should be immune or liable for acts like this and saying Hey you know what if the teacher didn't separators and one of the kids to the principal's office for cure keep them apart some like this happens and someone is hurt subsequently after that the teacher or the principal the educator could be pulled personally liable in the eyes of law which is a which is a pretty dangerous standard if they can prove negligence are are malicious purpose or something along those lines do you think schools Jason somewhere to blame here for this because obviously this doesn't happen in a vacuum but it is since my kids were in school your kids you look at this and go all right back in the day it off with a bowling issue you may bring a parent into a friend you learn how to fight you take the bubbly bowling in getting laid back in life when they be working for you ready go to still get education you that kind of thing Marty McFly right right now we've kind of collapse okay well that the educators the schools they have to be more hands on after prevent pulling in every school says we have a zero tolerance policy we're going to stop and prevent bowling from happening they've tried about this absurd standard and I'm not saying this teacher should look the other way not at all but to to say that somehow their response or cyber bulling or what happens off campus or during the summer or in the halls of the school went went in the in the boys the girls rooms when teachers aren't around it is an absolute ridiculous standard that they set this up no I don't think so I think that what they're trying to do is react to society right now because the point is a big issue and with the bowling and social media polling it's becoming more prevalent and more known to everyone at the end of the day school teachers printable they are responsible for the classroom they are responsible for the safety of the children when they're there but at some point you can't put all responsibility on the teachers you know it's been and I think what's important about this case and what a lot of a lot of people are discussing is whether or not action by the teachers are gonna be second yeah than this particular case you know did someone just say something mean to someone else they call out a name and then the teacher move them across the room which seems appropriate but then at recess something happened should the school done something more I think what happened to your going to get into a lot of second guessing hindsight being twenty twenty and at some point I I perceived that the green court likely return of overturning death and and keeping us very strict standard on one of these two yeah if they're malicious if they're the ones doing the attacking act in bad faith or reckless manner obviously it's on the table but expanding that to say Hey if a kid gets you separate a couple kids and later on they get the fight and some could get seriously hurt that's on you man it and that means every time a kid gets a spatter verbal verbal altercation they're gonna get removed from the classroom that's that's not good for anybody right I think they're going to be fact based you know for example is going to have to be pretty egregious for a four lawsuits are are going
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"We do read all of our mentions we listen to everything you say. So share your ideas and your feedback. You can also visit glitch dot com slash function. We've got full transcripts of every episode. There's even apps for certain episodes. It's really cool to check out. Thank you so much for listening to function this season. If you haven't already please subscribe and rate and review the show. It makes a big difference and stay subscribe to function. Because we've got bonus episodes and interviews coming up too. This episode is brought to you by Lincoln jobs. It shouldn't be that hard to find great candidates for your company. The good news is linked in job screens candidates fast so the search doesn't take over your entire life with Lincoln. You have access to a massive pool of applicants with the skills you need to help keep keep your business running smoothly. No need to spend hours coming through an endless stack of resumes when you could be doing more important things for your company. So let linked in jobs handle the heavy lifting so you you can fill openings fast. Great candidates are hired every eight seconds on linked in that seven qualified candidates. And just the time it takes for me to read this ad to you. So let Lincoln jobs step in and help you find that next great hire. Just go to our special your route fifty dollars off your first posting that's linked in dot com slash function for fifty dollars. There's off your first posting. Just check out linked in dot com slash function terms and conditions apply yeah..
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"Then over and over and over they keep diminishing it they keep sort of saying no no no. It's not as serious as we said. And yet you've got the data and you've got the information and you can show that this is a problem. That is incredibly serious and I it's it's extraordinary to hear that sort of Still you have that that desire that posted to assume good intent and to sort of think the best best but after a while. Don't we kind of have to say this is a strategy. This isn't just they. Keep making the same mistake over and over. This is an intentional. And so far far pretty effective attempt to downplay their complicity. In this. I think these companies are full of ernest whether they're product designers Sir engineers data scientists policy. People they are packed with wonderful people who WanNa see this issue solved as much as you and I and I think the the elephant in the room here is that I'm at least beginning to get a sense and a lot of people working in the space are beginning to get a sense is that there's a huge divide between the leadership of these companies who are risk averse. Who Don't want to move fast to solve these problems who may be afraid of certain political repercussions and the hundreds or thousands of people that work for them? That did join these companies. Denise for the promised you know you and I and others felt that his promise that these companies had for humanity but as leaders of these companies they also need to realize it's not them against civil society or them against government or them against the people by not solving these issues with at scale and at the level that they know they should be solving them with they're also changing and poisoning the culture inside of their own organizations positions. And that's a danger the not to democracy that we care about but it's also a danger to the sustainability of the companies themselves That's extraordinarily here. And I. I think it does match what we see bubbling up. Whether it's you know the Google walkout which I think was also catalyzed around a lot of labor issues around you know harassment and things inside the company but but certainly a background to that at all. These big tech companies is their employees are the most expensive resource. They have and the thing they had to least control over And and it seems like accountability might come from the bottoms up there but one return to one of these other threads that you talked about an sort of what you advocate for for ways to correct or try to solve some of these issues and one of the things you flag is is real. You know what I think of from software sample choice almost a feature and the product which is go into the news feed go into the alerts and tell people hey turns out that thing you saw was false and you literally are talking about that. You're talking about in the same place in the APP where we see whatever headlines people are sharing we would see a correction a flag notification. We actually built this handy the website it if you go to fact book Dot Org. Act Book the Org. Then you can see what this design will look like. You'll see design that looks. It's like facebook today and what facebook corrected and it's it's a simple addition. Okay so we'll include a link to facebook in the show notes here so people can check it out but one of the things that when we talk about these kinds of solutions as people say well one there are people that believe in conspiracy theories and if a fact checker says this false else. Doesn't that make them double down so what. We've found going through the historical research. The behavioral and Sociological Research on. This topic topic is an every society in every group. Probably your Thanksgiving dinner. There's like one or two people that are you know very strong. They believe certain conspiracy very powerfully and society. That numbers you know between two to seven percent of people will believe a conspiracy. Is that like you know. Elvis was a -ducted and now lives on Mars or something like that now with that group of people you're right you do not want you know it will be very very very tough to convince them if they get a correction Even if the correction came from Jesus Christ it probably wouldn't believe 'em so with with that group of people but that's the minority and what this information particularly is focused on is not that small group of people who are often politically politically not extremely influential. But it's infecting the rest of society and the same thing with misinformation about anti vaccinations for example example Now what corrections do as the rest of society. The Ninety five ninety seven percents of society that I don't have these strong conspiracy theory. Beliefs am are defended when they get a correction so if someone saying that vaccines since cause autism in someone's spreading significantly on facebook and so forth. They can spread that within their small group but the rest of the population on facebook. FACEBOOK WON'T BELIEVE IT if they get corrections and where we think the focus should be is on the population that disinformation misinformation trying to infect in fact the broader population of society not the minority in the corner. We think of course it's worth doing research about how to change beliefs and transformed beliefs. But if we want to talk about impacting the political discourse polarizing society. It's not that group that you look you look at the broader sample of society lighted right so it's dissemination. It's it's it's what we call you know Reach or amplification exactly. And you you isolate you know it's kind kind of like corrections create a quarantine The offer people more information and average person who you know sees correction sees disinformation says a correction will be like. Oh what I read this wrong. And they'll stop believing it. And so you isolate that piece of bad information and so the platform companies and I talked to them a lot and they all tell me we're doing all this. We're doing this work. We're we're starting to flag. Things were starting to reduce reduce the reach of things that are known misinformation and and they keep insisting there fixing a lot of this stuff and then at the same time. They'll sort of be a little defensive. So they'll say well. Yeah okay if if Macedonian teenagers made pages for black lives matter and for blue lives matter. What isn't that okay? Okay because aren't there really supporters for black lives matter to people who are pro police like those exists. So why shouldn't teenagers in Eastern Europe be able to make such pages. This I feel is is divergent tactic right because nobody is claiming that these eastern European teenagers don't have a right to create these pages. They have a right. Let them create these pages. The problem becomes one. These pages are used to spread this information in with a purpose of malicious harm or for economic gain because then the creation of these pages stops becoming think about I WANNA share my opinion or I want to bring people together in this group to talk about blue lives matter. It becomes about manipulating deceiving receiving pupil for profit or for political goals. And that's what we're trying to stop and again this the solution in correcting the record we you don't say remove content we don't say Remove pages because we believe in freedom of expression and it can become very dangerous if pages are being removed deleted. What we're saying is just add more information to the information ecosystem so when you see these types of tactics one when you see these types of pages spreading disinformation and you add corrections? What will happen is your average American man man or woman who's following one of these pages if they could a correction once twice three times that says the content on this page is XYZ or is disinformation formation? And here's a correction. They'll stop trusting that page and if they stop trusting their page you remove the militias incentives and you the move people towards better content more healthy content without taking away the right of the Macedonian teenager to create a facebook page. That should never Happen we'll have more.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"We've been exploring what trust means when it comes to the Internet technology and social media for a lot of people the two thousand sixteen. US election represents the moment when they lost all their trust and social media whether it was attention hacking or foreign interference or the way Ardita were being used against us. You literally could not trust the information that was being presented to you and your timeline. The aspects of the Internet there were supposed to help us connect to each other. Aaron share information together. We're used to undermine the election and to undermine democracy itself but if you fast for three years most of us are still on facebook. We're still on twitter. was stolen all these networks and that's despite the fact that all have gotten worse the bad actors people who want to manipulate these networks. They've gotten better better. At exploiting the weaknesses of social media they know how to exploit the Algorithms and they sure as hell no manipulate the social media companies themselves because the truth is these companies are so afraid of accountability that they would rather let themselves be party to rigging elections and skewing votes then into actually holding their feet to the fire and saying we got to make some changes so as we head into the two thousand twenty election. Guess what disinformation misinformation. They haven't been solved there at an all time high. But if you've been listening to this season to function you know I'm interested in how we fix it. How do we rebuild trust on the Internet because it's not like we can log off? It's like we can sign out. The Internet isn't going anywhere so for this last episode of function this season I reached out to Avaz. Avaz is a really interesting nonprofit. And it's because they focus on solutions they're trying to a bill that world that we all say we want part of that world we all want is an internet. That doesn't spy on US and doesn't lie to US and sure as hell doesn't undermine our elections actions.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"That question <Speech_Male> about how <Speech_Male> information <Speech_Male> spreads online. <Speech_Male> What's causing <Speech_Male> it to happen? The social <Speech_Male> media <Speech_Male> is so how important <Speech_Male> is so fundamental. <Speech_Music_Male> And <Speech_Music_Male> it's what we're going to go deep <Speech_Music_Male> want in the next episode <Speech_Music_Male> of function. <Speech_Music_Male> I hope <Speech_Music_Male> you'll join us. Go even <Speech_Male> further into getting <Speech_Male> ready for twenty twenty <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Music_Male> taking a look at the role that <Speech_Music_Male> social media <Advertisement> has <Speech_Music_Male> and being part of <Speech_Music_Male> the political and journalistic <Speech_Male> process that we <Speech_Music_Male> all rely on <Speech_Music_Male> <Music> <Speech_Music_Male> <SpeakerChange> function <Speech_Music_Male> is produced. I Bridge Armstrong <Speech_Music_Male> <Speech_Music_Male> Glitch Producers <Speech_Music_Male> Kisha. Tk <Speech_Music_Male> Do tests <Speech_Music_Male> the shot. Kerr was <Speech_Music_Male> the executive producer <Speech_Music_Male> of audio for the Vox <Speech_Music_Male> media podcast <Speech_Music_Male> network and <Speech_Music_Male> our theme music music was composed <Speech_Music_Male> by Brandon McFarland. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Male> Thanks to the whole <Speech_Male> engineering team at vox <Speech_Male> and a huge. Thanks <Speech_Male> to our team at glitch <Speech_Music_Male> and <Speech_Male> you can follow me <Speech_Male> on twitter at a nail <Speech_Male> dash But you <Speech_Male> should also follow the show. <Speech_Music_Male> podcast <Speech_Music_Male> function all one <Speech_Music_Male> word. <Speech_Music_Male> Please remember to subscribe <Speech_Music_Male> to the show wherever <Speech_Music_Male> you're listening to us right <Speech_Music_Male> now and <Speech_Music_Male> also check out glitch dot <Speech_Male> com slash rush function. <Speech_Male> We've got transcripts <Speech_Music_Male> every episode <Speech_Music_Male> up their <Speech_Music_Male> APPs all kinds of stuff <Speech_Music_Male> to check out about the show. <Speech_Music_Male> We'll be <Speech_Male> back next week. And we hope <Speech_Music_Male> you join us in
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"Darker nine every month or so about it. I think we're at a point. Now where her between twenty five and thirty percent of the electorate in the US has been effectively siphoned off into a different media system where where trump is the leading source of information about trump and the rest of the new system effectively cannot get through or penetrate right and this is also a conspiracy world. And that's what this conspiracy world is strongest yes And of course it is the original and very strong bond between trump and his core supporters in the mall the net. But it's very important to realize that rejection of the information in the press is a condition of that bond. It's not a nasty word. He flings in his tweets. It is a form of political mobilization and it also promise keeping on trump's as as I said one of the things he ran on that he definitely delivered on. was these fucking media people. I'M GONNA put them down for you. Baby you just watch. You're you're going to humiliate them totally did and he completely delivered on that and continuing to deliver on that promise is the presidency is not like a weird feature weird weird bug it is it is the heart of his political method the heart of his political method so then you take an institution like the American press which has has difficulty changing under pressure right. It's it's not an on the fly. Institution because policymakers it's slow. It's it's slow to change right part but partly because it has to produce every day. It's not like you can stop pause. Let's let's let's redraw that or let's let's put a new operating system and there's no such thing just like everybody knew. The two thousand sixteen was a massive failure by the institutional press in the election but the next day they had to start. Oh my God. There's going to be a trump presidency. Now what are we going to do. What are we going to do like? It's already a huge even. Save Vodka. Puff pieces the idea of like well. Let's take some time in pause and think what happened in this election but that never happened. Because in journalism year under this constant pressure to produce in there and and one of the consequences of that is that you always make mistakes and things get printed and published that are resulted half done work right and so journalists are always vulnerable to criticism because their work is vastly imperfect. It has to be sent out every day. It would be like if you had to ship software every every day no matter what as good as it was maybe you get lucky right. You know we have the right now right. We're apple rushes out the IRS update because they got new phones coming out and there is like ran this version. Iowa's is all buggy in the in. The flashlight doesn't work and all this stuff's going wrong and you're like oh that's because they had a deadline in they had to get this out because the new phones had to come out and hopefully hopefully they'll fix it later but fixing later is okay. If it's like my I messages a little slow and laggy. Sometimes it's not okay. If you're like. We undermined an election. That bat situation. That always been there. It's been weaponized by trump. And so it's it's not just that people mistrust the New York Times this way. Beyond if they now have an information sphere that can allude the facts in New York Times and carry them all the way through the campaign to the we've gone to do the darkest depths. Now everything's broken. Everything's Doom yes. All the incentives are Mr Lyon we pessimism. Ah The optimist Me Still believes there's something we can do. I'm curious for me. As a engage social social media consumer somebody pays for journalism as much as I can. What can I do well? Of course you can support the news organizations whose work you US and that's obvious But I'm working on Better answered for that in my I Directorship of the members of the puzzle product which is a research project study membership models to support journalism. So our our founding distinction is between subscription membership subscription is a product relationship. You pay your money you get your product if you don't pay you don't get it if you're dissatisfied with the product you just stop paying. Everybody understands memberships different. You join the cause because you believe in the importance of the work if you join the cost because you believe in the importance of the work then you should be able to support it. Yes with your dollars which go to an open service that anyone can access it. That's part of what you're doing with your money. It's hard to what you want us. You're subsidizing forever right but also you can contribute if We create participation anticipation paths. Where you can actually improve our journalism directly for example a database of expertise? You have so that when we need it we can call on you. If you remember crowdsourcing projects try to bring a lot of distributed information together in one place through the members. Right lots of facts. You cannot otherwise fine unless you have lots of hands picking up stones right and collecting them so a better answer answer to your question would be when we have a fully developed notion of membership and people are involvement sustaining. The news organizations they support and they do so because they believe in the values and the way those those institutions are run and funded and they get the whole thing and they get why they're part of the business model not just a consumer of nunes right right and that they have to call out errors and they have to participate when necessary. Bats the future that I am optimistic amount. But we're not not there yet so to the point about the calling out and participating what about me is just a ordinary social media participant. I see manipulation manipulation and misinformation. All around me. Maybe I participate in it without even knowing. How can I be a better citizen? How can I be a better consumer of of media and a better sort of participants social media like what? What are the ways that I get exploited that I become complicit in these systems that I might not know about? Yeah anytime you're talking about something that lots of other people are talking about. And that's why you're talking about it. You're in a vulnerable position. 'cause it's possible that you were brought there wow and these platforms encouraged that they do. And that's one of the normal ways of using them I also try to observe this rule for myself. Don't always succeed of chill before serving. I think there's a great value in cooling down before war. It's not like self control so she'll be for serving and The the flip of the road accurate. I think it's really the important and I think you're quite aware of. This is really important not to sort of like joining gangs and you know what I mean like attention gangs. Yeah Yeah and I and I'm probably guilty of that sometimes. What you know myself lack you really have to watch it yeah? Attention gains can be desert about like networks like twitter. Like some of the most fun is when everybody's jumping nothing if if we're like we're joking about something and we're all having a good time but the line between that and the gang can be. Yeah I'll I'll tell you one more rule us on twitter and facebook to I don't do much on facebook anymore. But on twitter I try to be one hundred percent personal personal zero percent private so what I mean is everything that I do is an expression of of what I think what I think about would've what I care about. It's thank me it's like I wouldn't talk about it if I didn't care about it. So it's personal but zero is on private. That means you can't tell where I am. I don't talk about my family. I don't talk about my lunch. I don't I don't position myself in social space. It's J. N. Y. You this focused on the things that I know a lot about to you as as as a sort of public intellectual as voice of what you are but not as you you know and so that limits. Yeah What I can do? Do you think that's compatible with influence or culture today where people people are literally like famous because of how much they open up about. This is what I'm wearing. This is what I'm meeting. This is where I'm at. This is intended to limit influence. I WANNA limit mid influence to the thing that I'm expert in. That's the only kind of influence I can get gained from any other kind is actually lowering my The profile in where in ways that matter. Well it's interesting you're framing. There's sick to what you know. And that's a that's such a powerful foundation. It feels to me of both one how we can be responsible individually and what we doing social media and to and what we should demand demand of these platforms whether that platform is a journalistic incision or that platform is a a social media social networking technology institution. Maybe maybe asking them to stick to what they know. Maybe something that can reduce some of our our our abilities. Jay Thank you for joining some function. Thanks thanks for having me. So we've been taking this deep look at journalism in the current era of social media and the Internet and a trust broadly this entire season functions about trust on the Internet and it reminds me of a story of personal experience. I had back in twenty fifteen when marriage equality pass to the Supreme Court here in the United States like a lot of people I was celebrating. It was really exciting and one of the things that happened. That day is a lot of public spaces in public. Buildings got lit up with Rainbow Lights which was just incredibly moving. I had a friend. Send me a picture from the White House that lit up and Rainbow Lights and celebrating the decision and I took that picture in a couple others that I'd found online. That people were tweeting out out of rainbows lighting up everywhere in public and I put them all together into a tweet. Just sort of saying you know. This is a wonderful day and it wasn't until will I got tens of thousands of re tweets and people amplifying that message that I found out that some of those photos weren't from that day I had inadvertently vertically shared a message that was inaccurate. That tweak at so many re tweets it may be the most visible thing I've ever written in my life now now. This wasn't a lie. I think photos from a different day so it wasn't something where I was trying to mislead people but I had had a role in amplifying inaccurate information formation. All of us have a responsibility to think about the information that we share and the platforms. Don't always do a good job of reminding us of that. There's not often enough nudges to say. Is that really credible news source. Is that really the information you want to share and even maybe at a fundamental level. Is that even something that you're amplifying just because it feels good to you or because it's true. Those are the kinds of deeper tougher questions that really Dr. The spread of misinformation and disinformation online. They appeal to our more basic emotional instincts. Sometimes they're good they're celebrations sometimes. They're not.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"Glad to welcome. Jay Rosen thank you very much now. There are people that have this deep and abiding reverence for journalism as an institution and yet almost like a priesthood. And that you had to protect it and you've never had that you've you've always been a little challenging of that and and I think one of the seminal sort sort of phrases that To me sort of typified your challenge of Okay. What does journalism is a role in the ecosystem? And how does the how do people within the institutions themselves was the view from nowhere. Yeah can you sort of for people who may not be familiar. Can you succinctly described the view from nowhere. Well that's my term for very well known pattern pattern in the American press but also other countries the press Where journalists tried to persuade us to believe in them by making a claim like this? I don't have a stake. I don't have an interest. I don't have an assumption. I don't have a party. I Dunno dog in this five no dogs but I'm just telling you the way it is so you should believe it because I have no view. My impartiality is my credential I sometimes called this view. looseness and As a presumed good so it happened within the evolution of American journalism that this became the dominant way to persuade people to who accept. Your account is to demonstrate that it has no stake interest bias and so not only was a profession bill on that claim but a market force was built on that came. Which is the Metropolitan newspaper? which eventually became more or less a monopoly product by appealing to everyone wants to those a commercial logic to it? There was a status logic to it which is in American culture. If you want higher status you can make more money but also you. You have to start acting like a profession. You have to say that that you that you deliver a public good that you some have some sort of elevated roles elevated commitment. You see what what does that based on like how. How do you Persuade Americans that you offer a public good so there's a rhetoric or narrative that you have to perform you have to say if you want America to believe that Your Institution Your Business. Your industry is good and important and must. SP defended in. Seems like the sort of the pillars of that are one. There is a public to your serving that public. And three you you do. So from above the fray being neutral having a point of view and it's interesting because it's been more than dozen years since you sort of formed this narrative of curry from nowhere and even if it's not phrased that way that framing of the the political discourse of the cultural discourse has become all pervasive. Everybody's sort of intuitively knows it. These days I think it's usually Phrased as both sides ISM right so if we have You know white supremacist gathering right. Then the news has to say well we hear from both sides and And ignores sort of the value that even attention in amplification in in an ecosystem have value separate even with the substance of the messages and that is one example of many. Wear the view from nowhere as I have called in breaks down or doesn't address what's going on. So that's what I've tried to do is name the part of what call Newsroom objectivity or professional objectivity name the part of it that we don't really need so that we can save the parts of it. That are good so when people talk about objectivity in journalism means ally different things. Some of them I think are like yeah. These are virtues right like being able to step back from your upbringing and see how people live. That's kind of objectivity of like I definitely want journalists. Who can do that right? Yeah so we have to do with this beast objectivity liberty which is like this. You know it's like a Blob Is You have to start naming the parts of it that work in the parts that so that the bad impulse they they didn't they didn't aspire to the things that are called objectivity are are the are the impulse to tell the truth to get evidence to show general. You don't have to rely just on my word. Look for yourself. All those things increase objectivity the kind of object with you we don't need is when the journalists pretends to be above it all all when they treat everyone else as if everyone else has an argument but they just have facts. These kinds of patterns. Don't do the president good they enrage users right and then with the coming of Internet as the baseline for discourse on this the people who are really dissatisfied by press practice have away to give voice to that you know it's it's different and when they are an atom atomised group that can't contact each other right right now all of a sudden they can they can say. Do you feel this way to do you feel this. Many other people feel this way right and they can quote unquote talk back and waiters emerge that represent their status actions actions and all that is a very different environment than when when I started studying the press right but the view from nowhere is increasingly under attack by events themselves. The well has lots of critics as well as general evolution in the way people think about this the yeah you know. The probably isn't a place above all the action from to a from which to view it. You're not a good thing about like claiming that so thank you for that framework because that gives us sort of common common ground where we have we have a vocabulary now. We have a perspective. And there's an interesting thing here too because one of the reasons it's so important to me to understand journalism and am media institutions as starting point is that we talk about a lot of technology as social media get right and and it used to be called social networking working yep and even before that social software in the tradition of Microsoft Word on on windows in the nineties and you know you fast forward twenty twenty years from there and what we have with media as a whole different set of assumptions but also people building this technology frame what they do in the language of media and journalism so so they talk about Mark Zuckerberg goes to Congress and talks about serving the public. Our policy is that we do. I'm not fat. Check politicians speech and the reason for that is that we believe that in a democracy it is important that people can see for themselves what politicians auditions are saying. Freedom of speech. Exactly right right. And we didn't have conversations about freedom of speech when Microsoft making Microsoft Word Right in the nineties and you were copying off of a floppy disk on to your computer so something changed to make technology media again Bill Gates when he was you know sitting in front of Congress and be being examined by the Department of Justice. These issues never came. He didn't ever have to talk about freedom of speech. Freedom of expression our first amendment rights. That stuff didn't come up and and Zuckerberg it. Seems like every. Six months is awkwardly drinking water while sweating it out in front of the cameras in Congress and and keeps going back to these trips oops so so that seems like a radical shift and yet all these folks are still well in their case. They're both dropouts. Were Gates in Soccer Berg but for the rest of them are folks that have computer science degrees and it probably never once sat in a room of a of a journalism school or taking journalism class or have any fluency in media. That's weird right. Well it is because what started as a technology company with a engineering culture and origin on a college campus right gradually came to be a media company or a company that disrupts pardon the expression media hugely just as it became slightly different term. It became I think eh to`real company. Yeah when for example began explicitly hiring journalistic do journalistic things right. You are and company right right cheeses what's on their homepage. ADITORIAL company. Yes in some way. They are right. When twitter says we're going to do moments now and hire journalists analysts to curate them you created newsroom? It's notifications about them. Totally right it's the same as the push vacation for the New York Times in a way and I think this will address your question when twitter. I announce that this team was being hired. And they were going to do this thing which became moments and they announced your eight right. I happen to have been booked to interview twitter's head of news just a by chance so it was the day that this was announced and I said slowly fascinated by this team of journalists. You've hired that is really interesting direction for twitter in my view. This is actually the moment when twitter has kind have crossed over into an editorial company. So you're the head of news. I WanNa know when twitter does this when it creates an editorial culture inside Tech Company What Vision Vision of journalism is operating from. What what tradition does it see? itself as standing within with sexual model What's your conceptual model? And also what now your priorities. Where where are you coming from? So I just asked a very general question like that. What are you thinking when you and what I observed was that there was literally no way to get an answer to that? They had literally not fond about that. They had done something very very predictable. Rate easy deal which is simply say. Well what do you mean. We're hiring professionals. They're going to exercise their professional credential. ISM exact That's really interesting because in tech. If you say yeah we we are Apple. And we're going to make a better camera in the iphone and then you say what. What is it going to be able to do you? Oh it's GonNa work. Low light and low light means this much as many kindle power and Lacson whatever and it's going to be able to pick up the colors and and that's it right yes even this is answer which is very noble. But if you said iphone fourteen is going to have a better camera and said we'll in what way and he said well we're GONNA hire professionals and they're gonNA make a camera and how dare you interrogate our magic right. It would be a little weird. Wouldn't it yeah but nonetheless unless with this was a perfectly fine answer from the head of news point of view and twitter's point of view breath because that was their mandate there was like give us give us some professional credit here. Ah Now I was very surprised. For example that it didn't they didn't say something like when they gave rise to moments became a kind of an editorial company they didn't say for example that universal human rights were part of part of their grounding because twitter very associated with that and other ways. It seemed like a natural to me if you had right anyway Same thing with with facebook is is they have been forced to admit that they are kind of a media company and now they're forced to to concede that they have an editorial part two and I'm told by people who may know that this is something personal to mark like being accused accused of wounding news. Was something that he felt personally and he wanted to try and adjusted. More with Jay Rosen after the break.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"And and he puts out the work on napster which. I don't think any major artists had done at that point right. Yeah definitely were you involved volved in that. Yeah we We were in talks with people over Napster. You know he would say things like hey can you get in contact with so and so and and we would we would organize these. AOL Chats which is kind of funny but through? You know assistance or whomever we would get these people in a chat room room and he would ask questions and talk about the record industry and again he could skirt around with like this may or may not be prince but it was him and he had a he had some genuine curiosity. You wanted to know what what they thought about this. Were they just tech guys who were just Kinda messing around or did they actually have kind of loftier visions Asians of what the music industry was about. So I WANNA go back so he starts to hit rate. He starts to experiment and prince's record label and Band were called the new power generation and so he he called everything in PG and he launches a thing called the MPG music club. Where did that come from? What do you know about how that took concept arrived so we were? We did love what other and that lasted about a year and then at the end of that he said well you know we're going in this direction. I WANNA I WANNA shut down one other the website And I WANNA dry. I want to create something. That's specifically focused to music. We had at this term site MPG online. Ltd and that went for about a year and that was that was sort of our sandbox to kind of kick around ideas to lead to the MPG music. The club and during that time you know we had a lot of meetings get a lot of discussions houses going to shake out What's IT GONNA look like? What can we count own on from him as far as like What he wants to give out? What can we count on from our partner as far as technology? How can we create a service that people are going to be into but doesn't totally? Just give away the whole everything in the vault These are a lot of questions we when W- We met with a lot of different people try to figure it out and took about a year to get something going which led to the MPG music club and part of this to give context like the technology's evolving living at this point like most people people had computer didn't even have speakers on them right. There's no smartphones yet. There's no you know well apple doesn't even release piece. I tunes until two thousand one and and this store doesn't come until later after that right so so this stuff is very very new. You're extremely extremely cutting edge and being able to even capture a song and putting in a form that people could download yet. I think that was that was the big challenges that we were doing something that there really wasn't a blueprint for and another thing. We had to consider too. We had an international audience so we might have a great Internet connection Chicago. Minneapolis but we were you know trying to reach. People were also in Poland or some other countries that may not have been up to par yet as far as the internet speeds so for them to download three and a half megs song long could a bit of big ordeal for them So we had to take that into consideration too like we don't want to just make it a completely high-rise experience that is going to block out a whole audience. That hasn't quite got the Internet connection. So you you you are sort of commandeered into now we're going to build. Basically you know Prince's bootleg version Asian of I tunes on your own website from scratch with an. How big's the team working on this pretty much me and and who ever our partner was okay? So you a partner and like the ghost of Princeton a chat room decided to build I tunes on your own and and a time when he's like can't stop give the middle finger to the entire record industry and so tell me about the. The launch of the first version was there like does does like prince come out and in play Guitar Solo. And like there you go. You're up on. How does that moment happen? When the switch gets flipped I would say we. We had a little bit of a a rocky start because our first I Partner was a company called tech offense and their idea was to do a download downloaded software piece essentially a player which was popular at the time You know yet real player and things like that so the idea is to download a player that would be your conduit and download music and videos and you'd access excess everything through this player Just unfortunately though you know it just wasn't dialed enough and people were having. It was Jank. Yeah it was I used it. It was Janke and they were like you know what was obvious to me. Being in tech was they were like they wanted to get prince. It'd be like look prince uses are thinking you should too and now we're going to be the new. I I tunes. We're going to be the hot software. Yeah so so so. They like they're trying to get over but it didn't work and it was like frustrating to us so you all are sort of stuck with a little bit and they had some really cool ideas and some really big visions of what could happen but ultimately people are just frustrated so we just said you know what guys we gotta pull pull the plug and we're just GonNa go really simple just gonNa make it a subscription we're gonNA make an MP three downloads and we're going to do it that way and we're GonNa do you know monthly editions which was very successful in that first year was all monthly editions. Where we're giving out? You know a very specific amount of music every month and people count on it and if you signed up for a whole year you got more music and plus you got these Essentially we call them podcast now. But essentially these audio shows that principals producing it Paisley Park again and again they placed the cart before the horse offering crumbs from the table. When in fact with no music there will be no table you are listening to MPG MPG audio owned and operated by creators of music in a dictionary and I mean it was pretty amazing the amount of content that he gave out that first year and the wild thing about this is today you know a lot of us have you know the Patriots are we support online or we being camping we buy somebody's record we listened to it or do you check out somebody soundcloud and they might have like a membership thing if you want to download a special track but it's pretty common infrastructure millions of us like we get music this way we connect with with artists this way we certainly are like I paid for the patron and got the exclusive to listen to the podcast that mix tape from my favorite artists? That's the thing that exists. Twenty years ago this is mind bending and especially because it's like prince who again big deal artists. This isn't like I'm somebody who's just breaking into the industry and I hope that somebody's GonNa Support my Patriot for twenty bucks. But I you know those. Those monthly audio shows the podcasts. Were you I know. He's mixing songs together. He's narrating the thing himself he is. There were unreleased songs that were in the mix on these things human.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"To make amazing using music and to talk to his fans. There was an interesting theme that emerged. which was whether we are talking about the way prince? He's drum machines on albums like nineteen ninety nine and purple rain or war the way the prince connected with his fans online. The common thread here was at Prince was extremely savvy when it came to technology but he you always engage with technology strictly on his own terms that really sets up. Where we're going on this episode? You know just recently prince's memoir. It was released. This is a posthumous memoir. But it was something he was working on before he passed Dan. Piping brain who edited it does a really good job of capturing stories about princess early life. And it's it's very moving and touching as glimpse at that but interestingly Dan also captured notes from his conversations with prince around the time and those are very focused on a a very straightforward message which that Prince wanted everyone to create especially black creators and he wanted everyone to own what they create so that idea of artistic control troll was probably the most key message. Prince wanted to get out in the world other than his music. He fought for twenty years to get ownership of his music. His master recordings the original original work of art. In at the end of that twenty year battle he won looking at it through that Lens and for my seat where I said as the CEO of a tech company he really was a technological pioneer. We don't think prince is a guy sitting in basically an office park doc in a suburb in Minnesota at his computer reflecting on how a multibillion dollar industry would evolve but that is absolutely one of the aspects of his career and his life he had a vision twenty years ago that ended up being dead on so this time around a function. We're going to get deep with to the people who did the most to help. Prince achieve that vision. I up we're GONNA talk to somebody who helped make possible prince recent memoir but she had been working on a much larger much more important project with France for years earlier and that was him getting back ownership of his music. And for the very first time theater Ellis Lampkin and who was prince's business manager at the time when he got back ownership of his master recordings has agreed to talk publicly about the work she did with Prince Fater. Thank you for joining us. I'm happy to be here told me. How do you end up working with press? So we both had a friend in common van Jones and Prince had long been in a battle with his masters and I'd met Prince a couple of times through van and Van. Said if you want to get something done you should work with Federa- At the time I was pregnant so I was on maternity leave Bennett. I think failure should go to these meetings and Prince's lawyer had been negotiating with Warner brothers ars and so that's like my medical times. And then I ended up at a meeting with Warner Brothers with his lawyer. And then that's a pretty extraordinary ordinary start. It was extraordinary. It's like at a meeting and learn what the difference between a master recordings and publishing in the meeting negotiating hysterical and for people who don't no no the master recordings are the definitive recordings of record and they are the fundamental intellectual property that a lot of you know at least old style recording contracts attracts were about and you hadn't been in the music industry in that way before Princeton I connected because I had a strong sense of social justice. It's been a lot of my life focused on changing the world in a positive way for people of color and low income people and I think he felt like the things he was in the middle of a battle for were about those those principles of justice of dignity of respect and so he felt like we got it at that level and he was able to explain to me how these issues were basic dignity and human rights issues and how artists of color especially were being exploited. So I want to share a little bit of the perspective of what we saw as fans because I was deep in community especially the online community. You know back. In the nineties prince had changed his name to assemble and really embrace the Internet and we talk about a lot of that and had very put it in very stark terms That his battle at his record label was about ownership of his Masters and ultimately control of his career and his framing was If you don't own in your masters and your masters own you and at the time when he does is he writes slave on the side of his face which is a not very subtle statement of his feelings is about the relationship with the label and begins this battle that by the time you connected with him had been going on for almost twenty years. Sometimes when you're in a fight light your and a principal place and I think it's important that he was at a principal place which I think very few people have sometimes have the luxury of getting to but he was in a place where are more than in some ways money more than other things matter. He principally wanted to win. Because it was a fight for justice he'd been in and he understood the implications and not just for him but for other artists and artists of color so when he was fighting it wasn't just I mean he was fighting for himself. He felt like he was fighting for George Clinton. He felt like he was fighting for other artists that he was very clear that his liberation would be liberation for others. And the thing is I I think he thought a a lot about that sort of historical context. This was in a tradition of hundreds of years of black artists being exploited and in attrition of the people he'd had grown up listening to George Clinton absolutely being one of them and George had been signed to Princess Label Paisley Park And obviously you know was a huge influence on on his career. But you. I also had the Franklin Hetero record label back in the sixties and seventies and and James Brown had experimented with how to release. His records are certainly Berry Gordy whose whose son would end up running Paisley Park on the business side for a while had all been sort of these huge influences on on princess thinking about ownership particularly in the context of a of being a black artist. Absolutely the thing I think about him that must be so A challenge to be is he was so brilliant as a musician at the same time as a business businessperson and sometime those forces are opposed. And so like as you think about making a smart decision for your music is very different than the smart business decision sometimes and it was always interesting to see you know to be so smart at both things and sometimes they the decisions. It was clear he sometimes made a decision as a musician. He sometimes made a decision as business version and sometimes he made it at that the cross of both so. How'd you get into one of those decisions? That from the outside. I think I got because I had been in business and certainly been like software you think about intellectual property all the time but that fans were mystified by and it was his adamant. Stubborn bullheaded views on taking down his content on Youtube in on other services online. And I want to be fair to sort of you know representatives. I think a lot of fans were like. You're hurting your legacy and you're hurting. New Audience. New listeners like especially younger listeners. Ability to discover your work because it's not on Youtube it's not in the places is that expect to find you and my understanding was if he looked at something like YouTube. It was which Google owns. You have Google's is huge company on the biggest companies in the world so if one of the big companies world saying we're GONNA put your work that you created wrote performed own. We're GONNA put it up on our site and we will pay for uh-huh what we're going to pay you. We're going to make up. You have no way to negotiate it and you'll find out after the fact that you're working on our platform and he's like no thank you. Does that match. Watch what your impression was a little bit. I think also was hard as like he thought of it is a very purposeful strategy for record labels and technology technology to devalue content right. It wasn't like it just was a business decision so like if you look at the statistics of the rates that people are being paid on radio versus the rates that they were being paid on selling like streaming or youtube. It was so much lawyer so one is the way they presented the content because someone could manipulate it and he was an artist who who wanted his music presented in a very specific way. So you might have someone. I remember like Dancing new disrespecting on women and that was not how he wanted his the music to be heard or those images to be connected so one is the way it was presented was different than it was intended and different than ten th the intention of his art second as a a business person. It was now something that he already had a split because he owned his publishing so he had fifty percent of it and then he had a percentage off of the master astor recording. But now you had in places like streaming youtube you now had record. Companies who'd re-negotiated different rates rates so a record company Anthony might get more our label. Music label might get more money then they would have gotten off a radio performance and so or they had different incentive bases and so it was the presentation of the content. It was the fact that they'd structure to deal around the artists and that he actually felt like we. We talked with Youtube or others. It was like he could negotiate deal and then they went from like it's just content than youtube is going to radio and he could negotiate specific bills when he was clear that it was only him. That can negotiate those deals. You know he's talking talking about his ability to understand the terms of the contract and how he's being paid what the royalty rates are and how they defer that that there was this huge evolution music went through a very short period of time between Recorded music on vinyl and then cassettes and then CDs onto into digital. But then there's different eras there between digital download versus streaming and digital radio. And all these kind of different evolutions. Did he have that level level fluency where he knew all that different terms and how all the different streaming services worked on what the different rates were in. What is different legal? Relationship was told them I think yes and no yes in that. Sometimes he understood the most minor detail and no and that's nice he didn't he didn't have as much information about the way that some of the relationships were working one thing that struck me when I started working with him as I I said. Okay Look I. We'd been this meeting. And they were going over contract and I went through like each piece of the contract with him and he found it really frustrating and he would get era. -tated with me but it was. It was really his property in the thing of most value to him personally and professionally. You know he'd been obviously An artist for so long had so many resources and been famous that I don't think he'd been engaged in the transactional level of some decisions. That had great impact for him. He was clear on this. I think he's talked about this that that he felt.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"To create this drum machine sounds prince was using something called the Lindros or the l. m. one this is a drum computer. That's what they call drum machines back then is a black box with wood-paneled sides. This was the first drum machine that used a digital recording of the drum. Sounds instead of analog tape loops or something like that and that little change change as the game for drum machines because what it meant was artists could manipulate the sounds of the drums in their songs. So when Prince got this Linn Drum machine when he took it a step further than anybody imagined instead of just turning the KNOB up to ten he turned up to a thousand and turn these really simple drum. Sounds into something that sounded did like the future on this track. Prince's Botha musician and computer programmer. He took a drum machine manipulated past what any of its creators at imagine could do and modified a create a sound. That was so influential. It didn't just shape his own. Work it shaped the sound of everything on the radio in nineteen ninety nine. It holds a special place for me personally not just because this was princess big crossover hit or got him on. MTV Would Little Red Corvette was released but also because I could understand Dan some innate level this was prince using technology not just using guitars and keyboards and the other things. We knew he was good at but really this cutting edge of technology and that was something that felt like it connected with those of us who were just discovering computers in tech at the same time. Now what I talked to people about prints technology. They often often come back to me of like. Listen this the guy that pulled off a youtube denise hate technology and hate the Internet and the truth of it was he was very savvy about technology and very protective of his work and believe very strongly in artists controlling their work in house distributed so prisons relationship with technology was very complicated because he understood tech so well he was a groundbreaker and countless ways for example he was one of the first musicians to release his music online for downloads or for streaming back in the early ninety changes name to a symbol that you had to have a custom font in order to put on your computer. He crowd funded in Alabama online a decade and a half before kick-started even existed. It's it's no surprise that he was winning a Webby Award for an online store that he launched before I tunes it even existed it even goes into culture. Prince is probably one of the people most used in memes online but he was so fluent in it that he made songs about the means that were about him part of the reason. I want to have this conversation. Nations the album one thousand nine hundred nine is going to be released as a deluxe edition later. This month is going to be new songs. And all that cool stuff you'd expect but it's also a great time to reflect on the themes of the album that are about technology and especially about the role technology played in Princess career. Jay Smooth an old friend of mine who I got the chance to go to a Lotta prints shows with over the years. He's also one of the most thoughtful and cogen public intellectuals talking about race and culture and he's been the host of New York City's longest running hip hop radio program. The Underground Railroad Andrew Swanson is a host and writer at Minnesota public. Radio's the current or she helms the local show. It's a weekly show. Oh dedicated to exploring the Minnesota music scene especially at twin cities. And she's been writing about prince for years. Jay Andrea joined me to nerd out about Princess Music Music about his complicated relationship to technology and about his incredible legacy online. One of the first glimpses. We got into prince's deep keep thinking about technology was the nineteen ninety nine in particular. And and it's interesting because it's both in the lyrics where we have something. Something in the water does not compute as well as the sound of it right. This is a very technologically enabled out and drum machines. Incentives all that stuff so the sort of moment in pop culture and I'm curious J.. Like when you see the sort of Ito in that eighties context home. Computers arriving all those things how much she think like an album like nineteen eighteen. Ninety nine helped shape people's perception or or you know was was print sorta knowing what was about to happen. I definitely think that was part of the mix you know. That was a point in time when I was I getting introduced to. I think my grandfather gave me his Texas instruments computer at that time and we were just getting the first glimpses glimpses of what kind of presence that would have in our lives and I think on a musical level prince was always known in my hip hop community for figuring out what to do with these drum machines means before anyone else did in the eighties and other guy. He was the model in a lot of ways for sort of having curiosity for it and embracing it for sure. I was ten years old at the time. So that was sort of a part of my environmental introduction into the this sort of computerized by an entry. Now you have an essay in the upcoming becoming deluxe edition of Ninety nine three released. That's coming out. You talk a little bit about what you discussed there. Yeah so I got a chance to interview a lot of different people that worked with with prince in one thousand nine hundred one in nineteen eighty two so. My Essay is attempting to the best of my abilities to kind of position where prince was in his career here and in his thinking and in his creative process. And it's really I mean I can picture it as like the floodgates are opening and he's suddenly creating a song song day and it's just flowing out of him and he's big becoming very improvisational experimental with the wind drum in creating all these different sounds and yeah it. It was really fascinating to talk to people who are in his live band people. Who are you know touring with him as his Stage crew people who are in the studio with attend engineers that were working with him and to try to capture this kind of worrying creative spirit that was emanating out of him in that era. So you you both have you know incredible long histories in the fan community and of course knowing princess working perform any times but this conversation is not primarily going to be about like like. Oh I saw this amazing Guitar Solo or with the club and he played this thing or this is what happened to this is about a totally different aspect. The Way I've played it as prince was kind of a nerd like he was Kinda into technology and in a not casual way from real early on and I just wanted to start with for each of us sort of what was the first glimpse into that. I'll start with J. Like when was the first time we were like princess on some other stuff here like he's doing something different with tech. I mean there were little hints with Something in the water does not compute and computer blue and so on but I think the first time I really had a chance to engage with. It was when he put out the love sexy acce- CD as one single continuous track that that was my first experience of prince having a real particular vision of how he wants to use Technology Ajayi and use it to seek a real particular relationship engagement with his audience and sort of experiencing that paradox of totally orderly seeing division and getting it and respecting it while also being highly annoyed by it in practice experience for his his audience or as listeners just and for content or folks that don't know I love sexy was an album that came out in nineteen eighty eight and also. This is hard for folks to match. Maybe as well CDs were brand new then one of the first two or three CDs I ever bought. Yeah it was like my friend. His his mom's boyfriend had the CD player. And we'd be like you know five minutes a day we can go and steal it and use it but but what we found was this album came out. This is pretty much of the tail end of sort of the Ron Prince's most classic first ten albums and you know it was an event when he dropped drop now but the vinyl you put the needle on the record listen to songs. This was like you're going to listen to forty eight straight minutes of this album in the sequence that I wanted and you couldn't give a tracker tracker. Do anything else. Then you think this is prince saying like I know how to use this tech and I'm GonNa Flex on you a little bit. I can't speculate to that extent but my impression was has. He thought this is an album. This should be experienced from front to back. So I'm going to use the technology to force you in that direction. So that if you feel like you just wanNA listen to anesthesia. A Caesar you're going to have to hold down the fast forward button for exactly the right amount of time right to that song. I'M NOT GONNA make it easy for. which was the last song of the album one of the best songs on the album? And you're spending a good bit of time like engaging with this device and it's a little bit of him sort of saying like this is me knowing what's possible the right I think. Think hoping to use the technology to make you engage with the stuff on his terms is a recurring theme and enter sort of same question. I'm I'm hearing from you have like when was the moment when you were like you know. He's he's this pop figuring everybody knows as whatever this symbol on the popstar the musical genius. But there's this other weird Internet cider. Ed Tech Side. I guess my experience is way more recent. It's when he re tweeted me by only typing my first and last name in all caps with the link in between it to something thing I had written and he had a distinct style of how he used social media for sure like he didn't use it like anybody else did. Yeah if you wanted to re tweet someone he literally just took what they wrote and put it as his tweet. Sometimes with a citation sometimes not but I. I was just so fascinated with the way he was using twitter as kind of like in the same way like in the nineties. You would find out about a rave by someone hosting a flyer and then you're like call secret phone number and figure out where it was like. He was doing that to advertise events at Paisley Park on twitter. He would post something and then you delete it but the party would still be happening that night and you just had to follow him like every every minute of the day to catch when he posted it I think the the biggest example of that was he had invited. Me and bobby out It was the thirtieth anniversary of Purple Rain and we had done a story together on the current where I work Bob. Easy was the drummer in the revolution. So you know one of Prince's longtime collaborators so bobby's sent me an email well it I don't know six o'clock saying can you come to Paisley park tonight. P wants to meet you and I said sure and I I just wrote on twitter the summoning no other context and just went and was off the grid basically for the rest of the night and I woke up in the morning to attacks x from one of my friends saying. Did you go to Paisley Park last night and I was like how on Earth would anyone besides me Princeton. Bobby Z. Know that and she's a princess tweeting about you and and he had taken my tweet and put it as his own tweet and just again in all caps Andrea Swenson and Everyone was like what happened. Less what it Andrea do. ooh Like what is why is Prince tweeting about her. And then of course by noon it was gone so I'm going to take it back because we're you know we're well on the social media era but but there's there's a sort of prehistory going even all this far back as the eighties and the nineties presented tremendous reckoning in his career in the early nineties. He changed his name to assemble. He starts begin his sort of his battle with the record label and really back control of his art but one.
Trump loses appeal in battle over tax returns
"Eighty a federal appeals court a three judge panel ruled that Donald Trump in fact does have to turn over his tax returns to the state of New York Cyrus Vance junior the the the prosecuting attorney Attorney General or whatever his title is from Manhattan district attorney that's his title had subpoenaed those records in the context of a criminal tax evasion chart case that they are you know looking out to see if trump you know what's up with trump trump has lost in court that's the good news the bad news is that means now he could ask for the entire you know and blocking the entire court to to to sit and judge on the US or it could just immediately get kicked up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court then could either choose to take it right away you know like I on an emergency basis like they did with bush V. gore back in the day or they can say yeah we'll think about it maybe next year and and then you know we still don't get to see trump's taxes and and learn how broke he is I'm telling you though he is broke broke broke or you wouldn't be trying to sell his his his hotel in Washington DC it's as only profitable hotel as far as anybody can tell and you know because we don't really know because we don't have his tax returns and and he's changes legal residents to Florida which is something that wealthy people do when they're on the verge of bankruptcy because in Florida you can put em virtually Anil unlimited amount of money into your home and have that survive bankruptcy said you know better
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"So by now you might be wondering if there are so many potential problems with AI graders why would anyone want to use them. I think they're two arguments one. Probably the primary one is that it's cheaper. It's definitely cheaper to have a machine do it But the other argument is that this gives immediate feedback up to students in in some contexts. Before you'd have to wait months to get the results of your standardized tests and by that point you know students. They're they're on summer vacation. They don't really care they're not gonNA learn from a poor great or they're going to remember what they wrote and when students get feedback immediately that frees up teachers to work on something else like their lesson. Implants so if you're a state that needs to save money and wants to give teachers a break graders look like a pretty decent option. I think it will become more widespread widespread one of the things I asked everybody that I interviewed is if they thought their state would ever go back to human graded tests and they unanimously said. Had No once you're into scoring so much cheaper this is the future okay so both David and todd explained the problems with. Ai Graders but but what do the companies who make them think. I spoke to F- Aqa whole managing senior research scientist at educational testing service their algorithm greats the gre the and other standardized tests. We have assessments in all areas language proficiency graduate school entrance fee. That kind of thing. I asked EPA about the bias problem. It's very possible. That programs programs can be biased If you don't train them correctly so you WanNa make sure that the data that you use to feed the system to train. The system is as unbiased as possible but it it is very possible that you can introduce it because of course the systems are learning from human so if the data that you happen to choose is bias than the machine is going to learn. That's IAS so when you're picking data set how do you even know if data might be biased and then how do you know if that's actually affecting the machine well it's very challenging Topic actually we have a number of checks in place for civil we try and make sure that the humans that are scoring the essays in the first place are well trained. They get monitored to make sure that they're sticking to the rubrics we make sure that's responses would be scored by multiple humans to make sure that they're all roughly in agreement but it's not perfect. It's not a perfect system it can happen potentially Schley. That's you might end up with a biased data sets. You know even despite all these checks that we would have in place so we spoke to a parent who was frustrated. That one of these language language systems wasn't really teaching his child how to write. He thought the program was teaching his kid how to write big words rather than how to write. Well how would you respond to that. He's probably not wrong. At least when we develop tools that try and support learners of writing we try and collaborate with the writing community to try and find and what are the things that people who are researching writing. What are the kinds of things that they teach what the kinds of things that they think are important? Having a system teach. Big words is his particular skill. But it's maybe not being able to rise well the ability to right well as a as a whole range of skills maybe vocabularies when piece of it. But it's not the whole thing so you read the motherboard article. What was your reaction to it? Well I think what I felt was that people don't always get the full picture. Extra of how these systems are used. These systems can be used inappropriately and if they lowered then of course. There's going to be problems with them. But I think these systems actually can provide a lot of benefit and support support to teachers and students if they're used appropriately and I think that was some my because disappointment with the article was didn't give that side of the thing we reached route to the Utah Board of Education. They told us that. The parameter Utah compose isn't designed to replace teachers quote like all instructional tools its value is either enhanced or diminished by how it is being used after the break. What happens when I write? PSA instead of gradient. Oh okay so far. Readers might seem like they're leading students is to the wrong kind of writing yet another way to cut corners when it comes to education and it might seem like a itself is the problem. Maybe computers just aren't in creative enough to grasp something as personal and human as writing but Seagal Samuel would say that that's not necessarily true she's a reporter. Vox Who's written extensively about artificial intelligence. She's also a novelist and recently. She's been applying. Ai To her writing. I had a bizarre thought. Enter my head head when I first heard about these language models which was I wonder if at some point this is going to be able to write my novel ideas better than I could seagal. The goal was thinking of this one program in particular called G.. P. T. two it's made by a company called open a I so I decided to sort of like test this by actually taking the novel that I published in two thousand fifteen which is called the mystics of mile end and plunk sort of paragraphs from that novel into. GPT Not too it's It's at talked. TRANSFORMER DOT COM. So you can actually just go on this website and put in like a couple sentences and and see what happens exactly so I put in you know three four sentences from my novel and then it generates a bunch of text a continuation the algorithm is for analyzing your words. Your your syntax. And then it'll spit out how it thinks your tax should be continued okay and you did that with your book exactly because I kinda wanted to see like you know. This is how I finish this scene. But how would the I finish the scene. So what were the results. The results were sort of astonishingly. Good to me..
Interview with Anil Dash Discussing Web Development
"An ill welcome to the show thanks for having me it's kind of honor I feel like I've I've seen your work for a long time and I think the world is a better place because of what you do but for those who uh of for whatever reason they haven't encountered what you do the things that you are part of can you can give a basic background to the work that you're doing Jack make stuff on the web And so the first thing I became known for his I I started blogging about twenty years ago reading about software in pop culture and whatever else and then you didn't have to be he didn't have big late you consider tries though and then along the way I got to work a number of startups in the early days of social media out build a tool Co. movable type those sort of one of the first big long tools these billy's till the post and Gawker and things like that and then we'll recently a lot of my work has been around trying to enable collaboration creativity coating together so I'm on the board of Stack overflow and Sankara blow actually spun out of call our creed also travel links other products and about three years ago I took over the company and we launched so the latest in that series of products called glitch and it has become a very substantial very interesting community people creating web stuff together in it's both a platform we can code right your browser and instantly ship up to the entire web and also a really great creative community reconsider the People's work remix it in and and clower together and it's been a pretty you know knock on wood every night success and the gates we've had it just lots and lots devs come in and be like Oh this brings back creative feeling Ron cody and so we ended up actually rename the company to glitch and focusing all in on it and since we decided to do that about a year year and go it's really taken off people now built millions of APPs on the and that's one day to day is running the company and getting direct with the community and I'm GonNa ask you a intentionally broad and difficult question about glitch now I'm not sure Who is glitch made four and who is it made not for WHO's not made for I guess is a better with it and I can use English properly today who is it not made for that's a great question so the first thing I thought about is every Hamed a developer tool in the past it had always been this felt like they hadn't pictured guy sitting at a desk with a black turban screening green taxed on and that was the sort of the ethos in the aesthetic in and the mindset of this thing and who's GonNa prove your command line is this is how you became a developer and we actually have a great cohort of people that work that way and they're using this as a tools English but it wasn't that we put them I thought we know we check that box those kinds of developers but for people interestingly on other the opposite ends of the occur from that's the the middle of curve adopters on one enter a real experts who lobby on the web but have had you know any I be in differing views are created toward the tools of us and and I think they've lost some of the the joy the fun of just making stuff and sharing it because it's become very complicated you can't just ship stuff and all of a sudden you're negotiating your deployment environment and also stuff it's just in the way and so those very very experienced coders I think have lost the the fun of the soul of connecting them to creating an the other end are beginners in this can be a kid is learning to read the first line of each to mail it can be experienced over trying API that they haven't used before this sort of back to square one or somebody that doesn't take themselves coder at all maybe they do you know they edit formulas in spreadsheets workers like that the share in common you've got some technical skill but they're a little bit out of their comfort zone a little bit out of the norm in for them listing Louis they had the same needs that expert coder has when they just want to get an idea of their head which is I don't WanNa worry about the overhead and complexity I don't WanNa be distracted by getting something just the basics running I won't be expresses idea I wanNA capture this this little mood of inspiration than I had before evaporates because it's so fragile seen same way as like you know a lot of friends with musicians and all of us have in other guitar two new residents were sitting next to them so that they got it songs in their head they can just capture it and the same thing applies for for making stuff on the web were sometimes you said this fun idea you get out there on glitches as easy as remix it and change it tweet it to be exactly what you need for managed that's in your head we're making everybody that's ever had a moment that you don't be cool thank you know what the world should see this one little idea yeah that's super cool so there's a lot to be said for lowering the barrier to entry both for people who are you know well into the industry now the job and doing fine but also perhaps more importantly for people who are not in the industry who want to try something for the first time but they don't WanNA learn sixteen hours worth of coober netease material exactly right that's not what they're looking for and even like I can't I can't provisional serve on aws again the deploy script but my Gosh I don't want to you just WanNa make something in in back in the day I used to be able to go on Geo cities or journal or whatever the time and just sort of like shop something onto the Internet and it got worse and then it got hard you know and so he's got some difficult than it couldn't just you know try something can just experiment and so having I feel where it's like I said as joyful it's just like tapping out a song piano or something I it's a really Nice feeling yeah I think so so what you've said is this really cool the idea of of a quick idea get it out on paper and you know I think a lot of people may have a misconception about glitch based on our conversation so far that's only made for like these prototyping ideas but there's actually these like the ability to do production level thing right yeah so I mean we run glitch dot com visit south on which is estimated and that's obviously you know Michigan legal for us it's very important out but but either lots of companies where you you're not going to run your air traffic control system on it you're not gonna that's nine you're not gonNA run the Stock Exchange on it sure did that a lot of times or just like I wanted you know we have some old proprietary apple or company and we would like to have it ah you know drop something in the slack so we have a reporting system in I just wanted to set it up but I'm the one the president the office who has permission to launch production apt to do all the I'm stopping I don't WanNa ask the IT guys to do it for me in the third quarter of next year and so maybe I can just put something together and I think that that's the taste but I think it's true at home or somebody who's like I just wanted to you know put together a website to organize early neighborhood wants to clean up the park the playground I want to have to do a facebook group for it and there's a lot of different ways of capturing that impulse but their relapse and they really run and they there full stack and they are us any framework and toolkit API I do think a lot of times we start with that in Nicole were all of like in the technical bonafides and not so much the creative impulses destined care about the most is you actually figure out any tech you need to or any you will learn a teenage learn if there is an idea that just animates you so much that you need to create it in the world and Sony learn that way to begin with or at least started that way and And we wanted to sort of enable that because the expert coders are very well tended to there are tons of resource capabilities but the people who are like just need to get this idea out there and then maybe they got some experience coating or maybe you tone but will handle all that other complexity offer you WanNa go if you want to run the large scale production side like you are that's great that's all in there you don't have to think about that we start right yeah I think there's there's an interesting discussion here that kind of merges when when you start thinking about you know that seam between and I'm back when I was an agent he works especially I saw the same pronounce Stephen Moore but it's between the kind of creative people and technically adept people Zainur and develop per prototype kind of people where the designers kind of quarantines to this area where you know they might be able to make a motion prototypes they may even be able to work with HD on Java scrip- right but there's no way that that stuff is GonNa make it over that seem is not going to get into the quote real APP yet right and it got harder to because we introduce the frameworks of the toolkits build scripts that you couldn't just tweet it yourself now you you had have this knowledge
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"A conversation that I saw wow on-line featuring articles around and disability and beauty people being upset that the feature what disabled woman and when join the conversation the Hashtag is popped into my head and it just kind of grew from there it went viral within the first twenty four hours and his still being used. It's three years later to really kick the conversation going about racism within the community and how the lack of diversity and representation other people color impacts our allies from St Visual representation of us in media to. How are we within the charity already? Model a pity model to whose stories get told when it comes to disability history who gets included who gets escalated or whitewash and talking about the racism is within the community. A lot of people may be realized that there's a lot of racism within the community the leadership that is problematic so this hashtag attack allow people to be able to conceptualize Baynes. We may have been talking about privately or distinct about ourselves and just really having something to grasp onto that really allowed to have open conversations and I think that I would have past couple of years. You know discussing race in the community with Babe to call Out of medal leadership many to really force organizations to think about their overweightness issue to really consider racism and raise more or retain their policies and within the work that they're doing are they gonNA lot of conversations about major social challenges that we face those those problems disproportionately impact people of color disproportionately impact black folks. And I'm curious about in issues specific to Accommodating disability and society is that something where you do see an over indexing of the proportion people who are impacted who are black Mark Kohler Oh yes but then every side that issue disability is a key player in discussing those policies and it gets annoyed four and we we discuss these policies. We don't discuss how the intersections of being a person of color into say plays whether you're talking about education awards for the pipeline unemployment you know race plays a very big factor in discussing disability with an topics and let let next suspended. Folks has higher rates of unemployment within the community so even in that type of target target subject you know we really have to pay attention to how are disabled people being impacted collectively and who's being greatly disadvantage more so than others. Not Get any attention so within me and my work and with other particular black activists we've been very purposeful and intentional to really get people to really understand how intersection -ality impacts our community and to really allow to say with color particularly in this case black folks to to be at the table and to really give them the space to share. How an issue like unemployment unemployment impacts our community? And what does that look like you. Yeah no I always tell people that the Black Civil Woman I cannot fragment myself and there are instances where I may not be able to tell which identity someone one maybe discriminating against me four. I'm curious about your perspective. If you look at the tech world in particular you look at the apps out there. The devices that are out there are the ones so you think are doing a good job of anticipating the needs of a broad swath of disabled people. I think that for me the one the company that I really have enjoyed seeing how they integrated technology has been apple and say that I have an Apple Watch and currently apparently to my knowledge apple. Watch the only health watch or fitness. Watch that has the ability for which you use it to track their rooms uh-huh and as somebody who has a manual which year is pretty cool to able to track. How many rolls did today? which is my version of doing steps? You know in many ways apple has for me lead the way to being forward thinking in that technology and also also including this suspect technology within their products and not having to go out and buy additional software. And it's a double edged sword with Apple. Because you know it's great so you don't have to go out and buy the resources which cost money but also on the negative in avocado cows money and we gentle with Community Life Disabled folks who Minneapolis on security again. Bring up the whole unemployment unemployment rates. You know we may not have the funds to bodies the laptops of the watches or the IPADS be utilized by US already. built-in now you're in South Carolina. You've got this. The wonderful South Carolina accent. We have the voice recognition technologies. We have smart speakers. We have all manner of tools around us and I see this in my I own family where my parents have the accents from the region India that they're born in in a lot of these tools don't hear every wonderful accent or even when we get into facial recognition and those kinds of things. Is My skin tone one that this system is going to recognize respond. To how much do you think that's going to rise as an issue particularly for disabled people already she finds people who may have a certain down. Let you know that may be You know caused by specialty. And if you have a certain you know using technology may not recognize that maverick table to use that technology. And for me I kind of avoid using Surrey. Because sometimes she gets a right and sometimes she doesn't so you know there's always there's thaddeus issue there and I think we don't include people and those of color at these tables of technology development to ensure that the accents dialects you know the affects. You know the way that people talk or whether it's look in our respected and represented and not be so whitewash and white bass disabled people color and other people of color out going to be behind. You know as we already are so I know that for me as a black woman you know something sober as using the soap dispensers in certain places where talktime my skin tone Israelis. Sometimes it's not and I know that somebody who's darkening me you know. Have more difficulty using title soap dispensers. So just this things like that. That people don't really think about that. That is really impacted. When there aren't enough people call are at the table? If you look around the room everybody looks like you. And there's not you know a person who has a different dialect or different accents or different experience events then hocken you effectively create technology that would be effectively used and closer to everybody..
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"An afterthought your thought or a not even thought or an optional thing or an add on into something central and core and it seems to me at some level this is also about whether the people creating technology themselves see that one this matters to whether there are clearly enough people who identifies disabled involved in creating technology. It seems like a lot of this is about. WHO's at the table? WHO has a voice? WHO's making design? Is that something that you think. His changing and evolving. I think that it's moving in that direction. There are technology companies that are one hundred percent leading the way on being more inclusive of the disability. Community I know just personally For example Microsoft has an autism hiring initiative. They have autistic people who actually consult on that and then You know they have achieved accessibility officer who identify having a disability and so there's definitely motion ocean in major tech companies to be inclusive of disabled people on the product side of things and not just on the end user side of things. But I think that right now the problem is we want to have have people with disabilities at the table but they're still metaphorical steps up to the table. And so I always say. Let me have a seat at the table. I come with my own chair. You don't even need to give me a chair. Just give me a seat at the table and let me weigh in before you design the product product. Because you'll save yourself a lifetime of hassle with the feedback from people saying well. This is not accessible. Because you didn't think about it in the I believe so. Yeah and it's not just about thinking about your end user. It's about having a diverse range of people working on what you're doing in in the first place so that the people who were making the product look just like the population of unease. Well Emily I think on that note of making sure. We are incorporating and thinking thing about people with disabilities at every level. What we do? Thank you for joining us on function. And thank you for raising the voices of everybody who is disabled Out Loud. Thank you so much for having me as emily pointed out. It's not enough to just have disabled people in mind when we're creating our APPS or software instead we have have to actually invite disabled people to the conversation and actively listened when they identified their needs after the break. We're going to hear from an activist who's pushing tack to do exactly tweet back with Lincoln sponsoring this season of function. I thought I could give a little bit of perspective of what I see both as a CEO who hires lots of folks folks and people to join our team as well as somebody who's been around in the industry for a minute. In the first thing I thought of when I found out lengthy and was going to sponsor bonsor function was my perspective is somebody that signed up for Lincoln and the date launched now. The reason I was there to sign up was Reid. Hoffman the founder. Was Somebody I knew. Invited me into the site and there was one choice. He made and that the whole team made that really stood out on day. One and the very earliest versions of linked tin there was no place to put a photo of yourself and the reason why whereas they said if we just let people put up whatever picture they want themselves it could turn it into a dating site and they didn't want that to happen and I think that kind of intentional choice about what the network is as part of why it succeeded all all these years later in being such an effective place to do business in especially to recruit the kind of talent that you want for your team. That's why I'm glad to have them sponsoring this season of function. And you can still use Lincoln jobs and all that power that network for yourself today. We'll help you get started. You can pay whatever you want. And the first fifty dollars on linked it just visit Lincoln dot com slash matching that's linked tin dot com slash. Emmy T. C. H. I. N. G. and they'll get you started terms and conditions apply. Welcome back to function. We often hear the term seat at the table. But I gotta ask myself. What does that really mean like a lot of people? I've had the experience of being invited into havoc on the table and found out. I was a token I didn't really have a voice. This and it really have any power and that experience was sort of top of mind for me and all the conversations. I've been having with disabled people about how technology needs to meet their needs. Because obviously it's important that we think about how people will interact with the software or the tech that we create but it's even more important that disabled people have the power to directly impact how nobody created in the first place. Alex Gard is a disability activist the director of Communications for the disabled list. The Community of Disabled Design Consultants don't we essentially provide consulting services for designers design researchers companies. Who are looking to integrate disability into their design process in a more more meaningful and holistic way presenting ourselves is a little bit of a challenge to traditional design thinking and even co design approaches where we often find that let users and especially when it's users who are marginalized social group like disabled people are approached with concept and then they're asked to validate that concept and what we're trying aren't you develop is a methodology to do what we call disability lead design and look at disability as a creative opportunity in and of itself looking at the ways in which moving through the world's as someone on with a non normative Body mind actually afford you a really interesting perspective that that can be really useful from the earliest stages of design process access. So it's a really interesting president and sounds like a lot of this is just getting involved in an earlier stage then is often considered that absolutely fluently is a big part of what it is that that sort of thing we struggle with. We don't necessarily have a problem with inclusive design per se. The problem we have is that the stage stage at which disabled people are often brought into a project. They don't actually get to control the agenda the project that that agendas already set you know you have the design brief and then you bring the users users in and what. We're trying to sort of argue and trying to find a way to embody is that you need to bring users and before you decided on your concept need to open it up with a with a really open ended conversation and then also just sort of really practical level things like we've had we've had researchers come to us and say like how do we even recruit fruit disabled research participants. How do we ask them about their disability? In a way that isn't offensive. People are always really really worried about being offensive. But it's been really interesting because has through those conversations. We've also identified that using diagnostic labels to recruit disabled user research. Participants actually doesn't give you really good insight into into the distinct categories of user experience. They might have so. It's been the sort of organic process of working through with both disabled people on the user side of things and with design on research is to find out where those gaps knowledge are and basically try to bridge. Those you know you sort of flagged this anxiety or concern about being offensive live or more affirmatively phrase desire to be thoughtful or sensitive and and. I think it's actually very nagas too. Many forms of advocacy around any community. That's underrepresented which is language really matters and representation and presentation really matters and you know one of the things that I noticed as you? You say disabled people and I have read as somebody who still has a lot to learn in. Most of the writing is sort of start with people so we say people in our weather weather whatever it is people of color like there's an identity those people first and then the descriptors is a is a facet of them. But let's start with them being people so I was. I was surprised to hear are different phrasing there and I would really appreciate getting to learn about the significance of inverting that order. Yeah absolutely and I really appreciate the chance to talk about but this because it's something that comes up a lot for us in our practice and it's something where the conventional wisdom actually goes against. What a lot of the community tends to feel most comfortable comfortable with and yet there's when you look at sort of institutional academic resources there they all use the what we call person? First language people with disabilities versus what we call Paul Identity First language disabled people but the thing is with this identity first language is that it really is about claiming disability as an identity and as a category of experience dance and even as its own distinct culture and with people with disabilities. It sort of came into vogue. I would say like sort of even twenty to thirty years ago within mainly academic spaces advocacy spaces but notably advocacy spaces. That weren't really led by disabled people that were led by like parents or or researchers or educators. who were you know fighting for the people with disabilities? I'm doing air quotes right now. She can't see hung. We can hear them and for for disabled people putting that disabled. I what that means is that it's not something that's separate from us. It shapes every aspect of our experiences so so for instance. I'm a wheelchair user. I'm also autistic and it shapes the way move through the world. It also shapes how I interact with people at shape how I think like you. You cannot separate my disability for me and I think that's really the key thing here when you say with disability it sounds like like an add on it's an accessory and when I say that I'm disabled. That's that's just me. But in terms of an actual research perspective that becomes uh-huh really really important because the argument that we're trying to make that disabled identity and culture provide an entry way into this unique type of knowledge knowledge. And you can't get that by taking a person first language based approach. You can't access that cultural knowledge. Unless unless you're actively seeking out the people who identify with that label with that particular culture and community so that's why we think it's really important. She's that distinction and when you're they're seeking out disabled research participants to actually specifically seek out people who claim that identity because that's going to afford you the access to that cultural knowledge as well. There's this sort of refrain that comes up around essentially asserting yourself into a lot of systems that that weren't designed for you right and to sort of say. This is a place that I should have and particularly because I think if we we look at technology There's absolutely a paternalism right. I I can't tell you how many times I HEAR PEOPLE IN TECH SAY Steve Jobs said if you ask people what they'd want they tell you you know a faster horse and I gave them a car but if you ask people were kind of social network they would want they would say one. That doesn't spy on you. So some of that condescending. We know better than you. Stuff isn't isn't necessarily real. I'm curious if you think part of what the disabled community can help abled people people learn is. How do you assert your needs into a system? That wasn't designed for you. I think I think absolutely and just speaking to the tech.
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"You've built a number of APPs that are sort of focused on helping people with self care or taking care of how they feel all maybe what their wellness levels are. I want to start with one. Just so people can get an idea of what that means which is thought detox. Can you describe a little bit about what. That tap is Yeah so thought. Detox is essentially is just the place where you can type of thought as something that you want to just get out of your head you who then just hit send it folds up like a nice little piece of airmail and disappears from the screen. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is you know logged anywhere where it's purely. Just a place where you can write something down and let it just go off into the ether. It kind of came about from the more I think about about my ability to do the things that I wanna do the more. I realize that that's got less to do with things like task managers in calendars really more about you. You know wrangling my feelings and where my head's at so some writers that I know recommend take sheet of paper right out all of the just crappy things that you're feeling and get it out of your out of your head and then destroy that paper shred it. Put it in your barbecue. Whatever I don't know maybe that's th- Arctic? Maybe it just helps you reason about why you're feeling the way you are but it's supposed to give you freedom or or some kind of closure on these emotions since not. Everyone is a paper and pen type of person. I figured let's make a little APP that loves you and Browser Sir. So it's always available to. You is the cool thing about this is there's sort of this wonderful whimsey to the illustration and animation style. That this thing really just feel like my shoulders are unburdened by hi. This way by stress is floating away. How much of that was sort of intentional about the feeling that you were trying to cultivate there? Yeah I think that is kind of important. We've gone away from like skewer morphing designs that try to mimic real world things and I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. I think there's something very grounding about physical objects and if we can replicate them a little bit why not and I also think that whimsey helps to just let you feel like you you can play. That was kind of thinking. Let's take it make it look like some old fashion airmail stationery and animated so that are folded up nicely. It does feel I think a little more like a place where you can just scribble whatever because of that when people think about like building an APP I think they're thinking about code road and technology very technical things and yet you're really coming out this almost from the emotional state that you wanNA create for someone. If you focus too much on the code would you forget about the the fact that your users humans right and that their delight is kind of paramount when it comes to in creating something that people love to use so another APP in a similar vein that you created is the therapeutic Caribou and I have to admit as really as ugly American. I'm like to me. It feels like I'm very Canadian APP and you are Canadian. But tell us about the therapeutic Caribou and what it does and whether this is something grounded in our stereotypical American view of there being Caribou boo everywhere in Canada. You know what it really isn't. That was just a whole lot of serendipitous convergence. I think I'd been playing around with a sentiment analysis analysis library and what that does is takes texts that you give it and scores it on how positive or negative it feels and around the same. I created a new project on glitch. It was randomly assigned a name like August glitch. Projects and that name was therapeutic. Caribou the Caribou is on the twenty five cent coin in Canada. So it just Kinda spoke to me and I kinda I kinda hoard projects that are created with like these funny names just in case you WanNa do something later with them it just kind of sounded like fun and silly little project where you can talk to a Caribou and the APP apple runs a little bit of very basic sentiment analysis on what you said and replies to you what do you think inspired you to create these APPs or inspires others to create sort of self care care APPs or you know emotional management APPs with most apps that act like some kind of I mean. I don't WanNa call this a utility. That feels a little too cold but let anything that's designed to help someone you give them a starting point and the support they need and you know there's no limit to what they can do from there. I turn to to my kind of tech tool kit of these kinds of APPs when I need to clear my head but at the same time. It's funny because I find that the best way to have a healthy fi relationship with technology is to set boundaries and be a little circumspect about the tools you're using and you know set some expectations like Please if you need help don't use therapeutic. Caribou go and find someone to talk to a professional you know so these are I think in a sense just more of a way to scratch my own niche for what I need to clear my head. Is there some irony in using technology to hopefully really reduced our stress and to take care of ourselves when we know so much of our stresses caused by what technology is doing. Yeah Yeah I mean is it just muser. Is it a little bit. Messed up that I have to turn on. Do not disturb on my phone. At some point it slipped into our collective consciousness that like a device that actively disturbs you is a reasonable default halt. What do you think that does the people right and then you know? We're conditioned to feel like we always need to be connected and ready for interruption So the tech industry add something thing like screen time or digital health managements so I mean I don't know I can't speak to the impact of features like that but someone once said that it's like a deceased you know lashing himself to the mass to resist the Siren Song. I mean there are apps that will literally connect you with a therapist and help you. You know right like it's sort of a tool for we're really actively managing your health in those ways and one of the things I found a lot of people say I'm already worried about what companies are doing my data. I'm already worried about my privacy. I'm already worried about personal information about me leaking out on the Internet. I'm curious Sir tapping into your expertise as an engineer. If you look at the APPS you bill you know one. What were the choices you made about? What information is kept you know about users but also to how can people trust that these kinds of things are secure can keep them safe in the case of both both APPs that I've built and generally speaking the way I try to build things if I have the opportunity to do so is just? Don't collect anything anything and nothing that anyone is sending two or typing into thought detox APP or saying to the therapeutic Arab. Nothing of that is recorded. Because it's is not of any value to me and so I make it explicit right in the tax field or at the top of the page that nothing is being recorded because because these are just little side projects I can make them open source and people can check it out for themselves if they have the technical know. How but I think it's important to be pretty transparent about how you're doing these things? These are potentially very very sensitive things that somebody might be putting into an APP like this or you know discussing over an APP with somebody On the line on the other side you never want to jeopardize that trust trust so one thing you sort of mentioned in passing there. Is that the APPS that you've made for. Self care are open source which for people who might not be experts in the stuff means that the code is available and people are are allowed to reuse. It does this mean that people can make their own self care apps or they can make their own versions of what you've created. Yeah I would encourage that well with glitch. It's really easy easy. There's a little button in the upper right corner. You can click. And there's a remix option menu that pops it and then you'll get a copy of that Napa running exactly the way it is so you WanNa change a Caribou for your large legged mammal of preference. Go ahead you want to you. Know take a crack at making taking the conversation a little more helpful or advance. It's right there for you. You're an engineer. You're somebody who makes technology technology and thinks deeply about these things. How does that inform your approach? Like how does the idea of being aware self care or being aware people's mental health needs affects. It's you know the tools you create or your attitude toward making software or even working with people who make software. You've got a care. It's really that at simple. You GotTa make sure that you're aiming for leaving people's mental state. I I guess in a better place than it was when they came to use your APP Angelo. Thank you for joining us on function. Always a pleasure. As tech creators. We have a responsibility to think about. How our software and APPS make people feel? That's that's an idea that we've kind of gotten away from. His doctor pointed out. Losing that idea has been detrimental to the mental health of the people using our apps and the early days. There was this element of creating something you enjoy or that you just want other people to enjoy in a point now where so many of our APPS are just handed to us by faceless companies unease. There's no wonder it makes it feel impersonal or like technology sometimes at odds with our mental health. That's why I find something. Really reassuring about developers like Dizzy and Angelo and so many others these are people that approached their work with that responsibility in mind. And it's not just them if you look around at the corners of the Internet maybe far away from the usual giant tech companies you'll find other developers designers and creators using their the skills and following their muse to make meaningful APPs. They're making little tools. That are good for your heart. Maybe even good for your soul and and if we go we seek those things out they can make days a little bit brighter they can make our burden a little bit lighter and in some rare special cases they may even even save your life. That's it for this week on function. We'll be back next week with a new episode function is produced by Bridgette Armstrong Glitch Producers Kisha. Tk Do tests the shot. Kerr was the executive producer of audio for the Vox media podcast network and our theme music music was composed by Brandon McFarland. Thanks to the whole engineering team at vox and a huge. Thanks to our team at glitch and you can follow me on twitter at a nail dash but you should also follow the show podcast function. All one word. Please remember to subscribe to the show wherever you're listening to us right now and also check out glitch dot com slash rush function. We've got transcripts every episode up their APPs all kinds of stuff to check out about the show. We'll be back next week. We hope you join us then.
Deaths caused by drivers running red lights at 10-year high
"More more cases cases of of drivers drivers running running red red lights lights with with deadly deadly results results his his boxes boxes Jane Jane Metzler Metzler the the number number of of people people killed killed by by drivers drivers running running red red lights lights reaching reaching that that ten ten year year high high triple triple a a analyzing analyzing the most recent statistics from the national highway traffic safety administration there from twenty seventeen when nine hundred thirty nine people died because drivers blew through red lights that's two fatalities a day up twenty eight percent from twenty twelve traffic deaths overall increased ten percent by comparison safety Anil suspect distracted driving may play a role along with traffic lights the change too quickly from yellow to red
Surging Mets win 7-2, sweep Marlins behind 4 homers
"A gentleman from forty and fifty at the all star break less than a month ago the three games over five hundred today the Mets swept the Marlins taking the series finale seven a to their thirteenth win in fourteen games they've got nineteen and six in the second half pulling to within a game of the wild card berth Anil Alonso his thirty seventh home run today to get the Mets going it was one of four hit by the Mets today Michael Conforto it two more giving them twenty five of the year and seven of the last eleven games Stephen mats one for the second time in three starts working into the seven today giving up
West Virginia University discussed on Houston's Morning News
"Most dietary supplements don't protect people against heart attacks stroke or death from heart disease researchers at West Virginia University Anil analyze more than two hundred seventy different studies a covered almost a million people may I help you for other things but not for heart attacks strokes or
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"Brad Pitt and it was sort of a satirical pretending to be Brad Pitt and very over the top way very odd and then it became the The top Google result for if you search for Brad Pitt hit. That seemed like a big thing. That was getting a lot of people and then Brad Pitt's lawyer Jennifer Aniston at the Times lawyers made them shut it down but it was just stuff like that. There'd be the odd thing where suddenly some page was getting. You know five thousand people a day or something as all the coverage of blogs grew you know and maybe I guess two thousand two thousand and one something like that you know. There is a very obvious traffic boost. I had to get more powerful servers stuff like that and these days somebody like that would probably just make like fake Brad Pitt twitter account absolutely. Yeah absolutely I think at that time. That was something people weren't used to that kind of parody and now it's commonplace because wikipedia hadn't even really become a thing yet. I mean I think it existed hadn't taken off so the idea of like you're editing it yourself or there could be information putting out there and you don't know if it's reliable or not was was pretty new yeah and there was a big period in two thousand and two thousand and one and two were. There was a lot of press coverage where people were like logging. Is this new thing. Hey they are these people crazy like. Why are they writing about themselves online? We've got a lot of really a lot of great press from that and a lot of Technology writers saying you know. Here's something really interesting. That's happening with technology being done with it. That's giving people a voice so that was cool. We got a lot of traffic off of that was Lisa. was that some of the some of that attention why you decided decided to start working on a platform like live journal or like when when was this which over for you where you thought this is interesting enough that I want to be part of it. Well I I knew Brad Fitzpatrick. It's Patrick who started live journal When I met him which I think was in ninety nine or two thousand He needed some server space because live journal was growing bigger than the his closet or wherever he had it at the time in his dorm room. So I said hey this is really cool Yeah go ahead had put you can put it in our in our Colo space For this ISP. So that's kind of how we started talking with each other and you know we all used it at this company so we thought well you should we'll just host it for free. It'll be fine so it's kind of how we I started getting involved with it and He couldn't keep but with growth. Just like you guys are saying. All of a sudden things started growing exponentially more people were getting online and feeling comfortable sharing Live Journal actually had quite quite a few impersonation kind of you know accounts kind of what you're talking about but there'd be whole communities of it where you would just be online a character interacting with each other right and the phantom community as well so what was going to be huge like what was the thing where it just blew up. And you're like oh my gosh. This is going to be everywhere. He told me I said. How much bandwidth do you need? And he gave me the numbers in terms of like the total amount of traffic transferred in a month and didn't really know much about throughput. At the time. The idea of bandwidth where you know if you exceed a certain amount in your pipe any given second you're going to be over capacity and the second. Can he moved in and we gave him what he thought he needed. He was over it and I think that watching that sounds silly. But even he wasn't able to sort of comprehend how large it was at the time in terms of the the sort of the machine power and the bandwidth needs. I feel like that was a story for a little while which we just. Couldn't we had a really hard time keeping up with the growth And so oh you know watching that with broad. Eventually I said you know I do this for this other company. It's not that interesting anymore. I come into this for you. Can I come in. Scale Live Journal all Because I think it is I think it is big. I think for me when I knew that it mattered was when I started talking with people that weren't in my day to day life telling me how important the service was how it was their lifeline. How something that Kept them going. You know if they were dealing with depression or they were dealing with having a hard time developing community wherever they were. When I started to get a sense that this matters more than as a play thing as like a pastime this matters in in your day to day life this is you know it's connecting you on a on a deeper level and so therefore my job which was to make sure the stings available? All the time online online Started to matter on a I guess a deeper level for me and I think that's that's sort of my realization of it being really powerful and important to people. Aw Bruce what were the stories of people don't do. Yeah well. I think we've probably all of us had similar experiences to that right where you found out that people were Using the site as a community because they couldn't find support elsewhere and that we would get e mails every day. We have emails from people who were saying you know. Thank you so much because I've been looking for a place where people would listen to me. We would get emails from people who had been you know considering suicide or considering You know other terrible things and saying you. I've found people to interact with here that I could talk to. And they understood me and We built a community there. And that really you know out of all of it. That was the one thing thing that looking back. You can say feel like we made a difference. We did something that people hadn't seen before and we built a place where are people could interact and get support. We had a lot of people who you know. We're dealing with any number of challenges in their lives and you know it's twenty years ago. It's hard to think about how long ago twenty years ago is but people who were in communities that were You know minimalized by society so the people who were Lgbtq then people who were Living you know below the poverty line or you know there were any number of kinds kinds of communities that didn't have a voice them and they found places like this and found that they could have voice and that people would interact with them. I think one of the main powers of sites sites like this was that you would come on and you would interact and read these people stories without knowing anything about them. I don't know what your races or your religion is or what your beliefs are and I start reading your journal your diary and realized that your person your person just like me And that's like that's one of the things I think is missing in today's social and that's why I think there's space still for things like open diary because people don't have that experience elsewhere Andrew. What was the first time somebody thank you for making diarrhea lander making pizzas? Oh Gosh I don't know I've got a terrible memory for stuff like that. What about blame? Somebody blamed you and said you know your your. Your site made my road my day. People were not email me but every once in a while somebody would ask me to say they They lost their password to their site. Or something they change your email and so I'd go to their site. A you know check it was them or whatever and then their last entry it'd be from six months earlier and they'd be like Andrew Sucks. I hope he dies. This guy's terrible and so I have to reply to apply them like okay. Since you a password reset email go ahead go ahead go ahead. Yeah so not not to really horrible. 'cause you know for for you percents sort of thing. What what what? What were the things or somebody is like you know you did this to me? By giving me this great greats. I utter free. Yeah there were a lot of challenges. I mean we. We were facing a lot of things that hadn't really been like You know litigated in in the online world before there were free speech questions and there was you know we dealt with. Is it okay for somebody to post a picture of them breastfeeding their baby. What's the line? Where do you draw that? And so we were you know I was just navigating that without any there was no previous experience. Anywhere that anybody had with that and The free speech one was huge. Just like we have very specific rules that you can't attack other members you can't call them names. You can't say you know you can't say they're stupid because of their political or religious beliefs whatever ever So there was a lot especially back then of. Oh you're infringing on my free speech. You're taking you know and people posting about the First Amendment and shouting shouting and shouting outing in saying and then saying no. You're in my space right. Not My space our speaking. You're in in my space now so you got follow my rules and we did. There was a lot of that. Like people are. Oh you gave me the retool and you connect with all these people and now you've taken my free speech away. I mean there's always this moment where I have to remember. You know we were so young so some of these issues which now we look back and think well of course we had a hard time with that. Of course we made mistakes. What are you gonNA expect? You're twenty years old But at the time just seems so big and daunting But you know we you know. We experimented with ADS That was the people. Were pretty vocal about that experience. Vocally supportive right. The great you know and again it's I have a different perspective just because I was so involved with the performance and availability side of the service. But you know we you know when I think going back to the question of knowing how big it was and the Aha moment the faster we can make the site. The larger the community grew not just in terms of traffic for the number of users. So we figured out pretty early on if we can keep keep this thing clicky fast. That's what we would say You Click you get the thing which back then was not necessarily guaranteed all for sites online. It wasn't is an easy but we figured we were like. Wow this is insane I mean it. was you know visceral lake. I made this piece of the site faster and it grew to fill that space immediately mmediately and then the community grew so there. You know figuring out that there's this connection that people wanted this so much that as much as we can make available they would take and they would grow and Dan so anything that we did decisions. The ads were one of them You know if we ever made you know had regressions after deploy if we made decisions decisions around our network or machine changes that caused the site to get slower for any reason caused this great just horde of complainers. Because you know they're like you showed me that. This site was awesome and fast and you just took that away from me so that that was the that's one that I will never ever forget which is as fast as I could. Were people. Were still probably complaining that it wasn't fast enough so we've talked a little bit out all these challenges of growing going in scaling and success problems really Andrew. I'll start with you. I'm curious about like people may not understand what was considered big back. Then so ascites started to grow How many people are you talking about? How many diaries or you know different sites we were you hosting the that was considered a big scale back then I mean at the probably at the peak I remember getting about And this was all due to sort of media attention like you'd get a few more but probably at the peak. I I was getting maybe two thousand twenty five hundred new users a day and you know these days that's not really considered too much For a start up with a bunch of funding or whatever but that was Yeah really exciting back then. I think that probably had a few hundred thousand active active users really posting all the time. Well and nobody had been growing at that level of signing up two thousand people and you were doing. I assume zero advertising of any kind..
"anil" Discussed on Function with Anil Dash
"Only your small community of friends. It wasn't all public which I think a lot of the things before then were pretty public. Let's talk a little bit about timeline. When did open? Diarrhea launched to the Public October Twentieth Nineteen ninety-eight roughing was. Yeah that's when it went online about seven pm eastern right and then Andrew. Diary Landon landed Pitas. While Peterson was I was was not too much later. In Ninety nine right yeah Pitas was first. DYRLUND was probably five months later or something like that. Yeah to my recollection election. I think I think pitas was in the springtime a ninety nine and was like August September October right. Yeah I think it was August or so and then blogger Dot Com launched in September of ninety. Nine so what we have. Is You know in the span of a year The three four five sites come online and there. We're maybe one or two others but these were certainly the dominant ones across. You know. I guess I don't know what we'd later may be because the blogosphere whatever it was but part of it was blogs and diaries hirees internals were all seems very different things. What was your perception of a block? Initially called a weblog. Yeah exactly so. In Ninety eight when we first launched a weblog was kind of very similar to what Andrew was describing like. It would be somebody who was maybe posting links posting Information about like. What were they doing their job? Or things like that You know the the idea of like actual journalists blogs was still a long ways vice off them so you can't really compare them to blogs today to whereas we thought about a diary or journal that was a regular person talking about their our regular life and what are their everyday experiences And then when you add in the interaction with the you know what Lisa was pointing out we saw the same thing As people started interact with each other became this whole huger more amazing thing than just people posting their personal journals and like one of the key differences we we saw between live journal and open diary was with Lisa describe with live journal where groups of people who knew each other would use it sort of like how facebook is now was much more prevalent avalon on there then open diary opened Ari tend to be more people were posting their You know personal things that they didn't WanNa put somewhere else and didn't necessarily invite their friends friends and family to come in back then. Your friends and family weren't necessarily online. Have Modems right and at least I'm curious for you whether that sort of beers you're expressed i. Yeah I was actually just thinking as I was remembering my diary land account I maintained that account even as I started using journal and create you know became part of that whole community because my diary land account was actually sort of more like a diary like literally talking about my inner feelings and desires and sort of how I interacted with the world in a certain way that was not how I projected or what I talked about on live journal because I still was talking in my community and my friends in so diary land. I actually kept as a sort of private diary now. If somebody happened to read it or was totally anonymous on there. That would be fine fine but I maintain that for quite a while. I had both Because I did see the distinction there. Repeaters was almost pointedly. Not about about weblogs. It was about Peterson about diaries. Right I would say the main thing it with Pitas that differentiated it from dyrlund was just the pitas. It is was multiple posts on one page that I would say it was more like the weblog format whereas diarrhea land was just To begin with anyway was just one post per page which I mean. At the time there were a lot of people doing you know online. Diaries and I was sort of aware of those people people like doing you know with html and everything but Pitas was something. I just sort of throw up in the meantime while I was working on Ireland just to do that. Weblog LOG FORMAT SO YEAH I would say it was more actually of the weblog format. It's interesting because it feels like well. Maybe this is more of a diary land thing. There was almost a tension between these communities like diaries or one thing and blogs or another and you sort of picked one camp that you're in or or a different side your persona were expressed through different tools right. Oh absolutely There is quite a division back. Then I mean that was the whole reason that I started to different sites and then I guess when blogger started getting in big vase to me always. It seemed like they kind of made the conscious decision of. Let's call it a blog and kind of get everybody onto our thing you know and kind of Meld it. Maybe I mean I don't know if they actually were the ones that caused everything to kind of Meld or whether it was going that way anyway but I felt like people who used blogger and blog spot were more There wasn't that division for me when I think about that and how I I use those platforms and then I saw blogger and what I saw as a distinction with weblogs was that because of the sort of private nature of diarrhea Korea or journals. A lot of people didn't use their real identities. They didn't use their real names and their user names general and the Internet back. Then you weren't necessarily early coming forward with your real name. You weren't Presenting as the person that you were in real life you're presenting the persona that you had in your diary or journal and I you know that's that was true for blogs as well but that is in my mind that's when I think of starting to see blogs associated more with real writers real journalist has three people who are representing themselves online as the way that they that they've moved through the real world and to me that was a big change from the sort of diarrhea dowry and journals to blogs. And what we see today so the standard might have been You're either anonymous or you used used your your online hacker hindle or your AOL screen name or whatever it was you were you were neo from the Matrix. You had a very different persona. Yeah was that was. Is that the conventional an open diarrhea. We actually required users to be anonymous in the beginning like our rules. Were very specific. You could not post your personal information information And we considered that important for safety because of what people were writing about so that lasted for a few years. Obviously it's not like that anymore are posted him to be real name if you want to But Lisa makes a really good distinction like distinction to me between blogs then and today hey are blogs are usually people who are writing for an audience or to get their opinion out about something You know it's what happens on medium. It's what happens on a lot of different tools now versus somebody who's writing for themselves being interaction with the community that they don't necessarily want to share you know their absolute identity so if you're reading that piece that we have today and you're gonNA put your name on it and I want to be the leader on this idea and you were to do that on one of these platforms back around the turn of the century. What would the reaction be the response be? That's a good question I don't there wasn't it wasn't a distribution mechanism for think pieces. That was the thing could make a name for yourself off. No you couldn't make a name for yourself because you weren't using it real name and I posted things and I still do. I will write things that I think of as think pieces but I'm doing it more to say here's here's what I actually believe in and here's my manifesto but I'm putting out and You know if somebody figures out that it's my writing. That's fine but I'm I'm not doing it to promote myself. If I wanted to promote myself I'd go on medium or on twitter You know somewhere else other channels to my real name Andrew. When you had people that that had diaries stories started to get popular ARPITA starting to popular? What did that look like? How do people respond to it? How did you know something was catching on? You would just see the interaction between people on the site and you know you go to one diary. They'd be talking other people mentioning them. There are few cases early on that. Were really big One of the biggest or most popular users on the site he started a second account called.