12 Episode results for "Angela Wagner"
Episode 1- Ties that Bind
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Or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you by discover- discover something brighter. Welcome to the pay massacre season to return to pay county a production of iheartradio and k t studios heavily. We are gathered here today. Power does a really good wedding. She having a camouflage stress and seattle cammo tugs eight bodies have been discovered in all members of the rodent family the largest case state investigators have ever seen. I told her i said listen. Don't wanna marry him and he well wide on. I said mom is very controlling. These join him from what we hear. The relationship was intense. It sounded like field of number coys taken to the instagram. As you all four members of the wagner family have been charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. I have never encountered querying. Entire family is accused of the mass murder of another family. Something so horrific has occurred in. Its own yawn explanation when i look at one particular pitcher from the wedding day. It's impossible to aleve that. Nearly half of the people are dead and half are accused of their murder. this is the pike. The massacre season to return to pike county episode. One ties that bind. I'm courtney armstrong television producer at katy studios with stephanie. Decker and jeff shane. On the morning of april twenty. Second two thousand sixteen authorities found eight members of the rodent family brutally gunned down across four different crime scenes. Pike county ohio two years later in november of two thousand eighteen four members of the wagner family were arrested for their murders. It was a gruesome crime that shocked the nation. We've been following the rodent family murder case since we made a documentary about a few years ago we were in the middle of producing season. Two of this podcast suddenly learned shocking development that none of us were expecting anniversary of the murders are social media. Folks started hearing people posting. There's a hearing today. You gotta be there. There might be something big going down. He told the rodent family to be at the pike county courthouse at one thirty four a hearing breaking news tonight shocking developments from pike account on april twenty second of two thousand sixteen eight members of the road and family were found dead at four. Different properties investigation lasted nearly two years before arrested. Jane wagner along with several members of his family people care about a lot of people know about it and a lot of people are talking about it today on thursday april twenty second twenty twenty one the five year anniversary of the murders. He sat at our computers watching a live stream from the pike county. Courthouse and there he was jake wagner flanked by his two attorneys judge. Randy deering entered the courtroom a record drought. I trust here. I'm here on behalf of the state of the highest on state of iowa as j whiter. That'd be pipe fatty companies case. Twenty sierra four vade marks the fifth anniversary of the homicides of eight members of the rooms daily families in his fifth anniversary. This is of force that we have reached an agreement with the featherbed edward lacquered to resolve this case prosecutor rob junk listed off the names of each slain member of the royal family christopher. Rigging seton gear room clarence frankie route through yearly data manley hannah routine christopher ridden junior when judge deering s jake how he pled to each aggravated murder charge. He replied with simple phrase won't league. I am joking We've realized that this whole case had blown open and we'd be following in real time. We immediately got on the phone with some of the journalists and experts that have been covering the case the closest across the board. There was one pretty consistent. Reaction absolutely stunned. I mean honestly you could have knocked me over with the federal. I didn't see it coming when we heard the judge. Say i understand you're here to make a plea agreement and we're like. Oh my gosh this. I was really surprised especially as long as they thought it was a shock. I was sitting in a restaurant. When i got the call and i almost fell out of the after all of these years that somebody is going to suddenly say. Yeah you know. I i know have said you know several times over. The last five years vehemently denied any involvement in this acted offended and then all sudden like oh yeah well. One of them changed their mind. It was a little bit stunning jake. Because everybody Who's really covered this case closely. Thought if anybody wavered it would have been george our first question. Why did jake wagner finally break. I don't know that any of us would know. Is he gonna tell us why. Why would you make this deal. Was he doing this to save their lives or was he just turning on them. I can't say for sure. Is there a likelihood that the other family members will plead out. I mean at entirely possible just weeks. Before the hearing we had received a photo from pike county native christina. Her sister tabitha was once married to the eldest accused son. George wagner in light of jake's plea deal. The image is nothing short of chilling. We posted on instagram at kt underscore studios. It's a picture of both the rodent and wagner families gathered together to celebrate george and tabitha's wedding back in two thousand twelve looking at it. It's impossible to imagine that aside from the bride half the people pictured would be dead the other half accused of their murderers yet. Here they are embracing in happier times at the left of the photo is jake wagner. The youngest accused son who just heard plead guilty. He's smiling his right hand resting on his accused. Mother angela wagner arm standing behind a six foot. Six is accused father. Billy wagner noticeably emotionless. Standing next to billy wagner in the photo is father and victim. Chris rudin senior family. Friends stefan remembers chris. Expert craftsmanship and genuine kindness. He was an amazing carpenter his imagination if they said money's no object. You would be amazed at the things that he can do. And you couldn't ask for a better person. Coroner distinguished professor and criminals forensic expert joseph. Morgan tried to make sense of the road and murders. Starting with father and family patriarch chris senior. Some of this will be hard to hear particularly if you're personally connected to the tragedy but it's important to understand the magnitude of what happened that night. He shot nine. Tom's now for me is a forensic investigator. I would look at that and i would deem that as overkill and now why would somebody need to be shot on. Tom's they're saying that there's evidence that he attempted or reacted at least to the point where a raised his arm his right forearm and it shattered one of the bones. When you've got an individual that has gotten defensive once that person has an awareness so that goes to the level of callousness at this rossouw to standing just in front of chrissy near in the wedding photo with his father's arm draped around his shoulder is the youngest rodent victim. Sixteen year old chris. Junior affectionately called little. Chris britney was chris juniors best friend. Oh chris he taught me how to love life. You know look at life differently. I can't explain it like it makes you wanna cry rodent. Family members spoke to reporters about chris junior soon after the murders christopher d get few just kind of driver sliced teenagers and sixteen year. Old chris. junior shot four times including twice in the top of his head he was found wedge behind his bed implying that he was trying to hide from the or killers just in back of chris junior in the photo stance his older brother twenty year old victim. Frankie roden christine new frankie growing up breaking. He was on a guy like he did it for sure hundred vision and all that but he did like derby as bad working on par stuff. That was his passion. Frankie rodent was engaged to victim. Hannah kelly not pictured just before the murders. The couplet had their first child together their six month. Old and frankie's three year old son were left alive at the scene. Frankie and they did want more children than you know they. They had a bright future. And just it just it just hurts my heart to think that you know the never get to go on with their future plans. You know twenty year old. Frankie road was shot three times in the head as he lay in bed next to his fiancee and their sixth old. We talked about gilly hicks shot five times she. She catches one in the eye. It poses this idea lying. She didn't these people in the face. What was the purpose of it because not only shooting. I share multiple. What what did she. Oh she she's laying. There was her child in the bed to the right of the group photograph. We see the two newlyweds. The accused eldest son george wagner and his new bride smiling excitedly. We believe that dana victim and matriarch of the road and family was behind the camera. Taking the photo christina remember dana road in that day in two thousand twelve seem pretty bubbly. She's along with her family. I seen her laughing with the but mostly she's going around taking pictures of everything. Dana rodent and chris boden and senior were married for thirteen years even though they divorced they remained friends in fact in lived just down the road and a home that chris. Senior burgess for her two weeks before their murders. She had just returned home from a double shift at her job as a nurse. That fateful night here is fan. One of dana rodents closest friends. She was such a good person but you know she would fight her family. She would literally fight for her and good hearted lot of fun. You know always laughing cracking up here. She was like really strong willed and really smart. Yes she was too. She was a very very diff person. She's very smart. She again like chris. Senior were shot multiple times and now only was she shot multiple tiles but specifically reports. Have her having been shot five. Tom four. Tom's tom's in the head. Now why the hell would you shoot somebody four times because you know one should suffice but the shooter took the time to take that muzzle of that weapon. Stick beneath daynuss chin. Stick it beneath her chin. This is a common location for suicide. All right this is atypical for homicide. Victim gary roden chris. Seniors cousin also not pictured was a beloved member of the family. By all accounts gary and christina were very close. Here's an ginette levy. She's an emmy nominated. Ohio reporter who has been covering the case. Since the beginning. Gary just happened to be chris's home that night. He was actually from kentucky so he didn't even live in the area in the neighborhood. He lived close enough to where he was staying with chris. That evening do know that. The shooter was very close to gary when fired because they talk about what is your as press. Contact shot wanted if our listeners will essentially take your index thing okay and pointed toward the palm of your hand and extend the tip of your finger. Maybe probably about half an inch away from the surface of your mom. That's kind of what. I two as a contact moon and what that means is that you're going to. Have you know the bullets about the only thing coming out of the end of the weapon. You're going to have the fire that actually the ignition of a bullet in the round. You'll have this burning powders. Come out you'll have unburned powder this coming out. So this is a very intimate event. Kenneth roden chris. News brother who is also missing from the photo was not with the family that day. He was a great father and he would do anything for anybody. You'd go kenneth who was actually again shot and face and not only was. He shrugged his shot in. I in a what. Does it say that they would take the time to put theirselves in a position where they could be face to face with kenneth. She was found covered with dr bills. That were string bass body keeps his guide. Any can't can't make this up. Standing front and center in the picture is then fifteen year old victim hannah roden. She's in a black bridesmaid's dress and leans in close to her boyfriend accused younger son. Jake wagner their child together would eventually become the alleged center point of this crime. They had been dating for a few years. When the photo was taken and appeared very happy. Jake wagner was hannah rodents i love christina. Told us things between them. Were getting serious. I heard manner day talking about how good and pretty taibbi and georgia's wedding that they hoped whenever they get married that it'll be pretty like that. All my brittany was also friends with hannah. She was great she was funny. She was really funny. She was really really nice. She knew everyone everyone knew her and she just like talked every everyone as she wasn't stuck up or anything like that and she lived life to the fullest prior to the murder. Hannah roden had broken up with jake wagner. She had started dating someone new and the pair had a baby together that she gave birth to four days before the murders hannah roden. She was shot twice in the hit four day. Old newborn late cider may be curls fetal posture along with her baby this curled in a fetal posture. Mama slowly stroke and the head of the baby. Try to You know com- suit the baby. During the night maybe she she awakes. Breastfeeds by the night while she's sleeping it's a position people slept in for thousands and thousands of years is physician of comfort. Imagine you're laying there. You're there protect your baby. Curled up on your side. There's an awareness. The only people left alive were three children. Infant frankie's three year old son from a previous relationship and the six month old baby. He shared with his fiancee. Hannah kelly the choice despair. The children lift investigators perplexed. Here's james pilcher. He's an on air reporter for local twelve news and cincinnati ohio and a longtime investigative journalist in the area usually when you have a mass shooting or a mass murderer. Everybody's killed so to see the three kids all under the age of three years old. Some infants were left unharmed next to their parents. Were shot dead. Very very unusual scene after the murders members of the road and family gave a statement to the local media pleading for help in finding their families keller's we know what follows is difficult listening but we want to acknowledge the pain the entire surviving rodent family has gone through a lot. People they lose one family member when you lose eight. Nobody has any idea what we've been through. Our lives has worked now. Who never been su. They stole some tremendous the killer stopes so much lace stole their lives but did they stole ours too because we live with every day. My brothers were good people. They would do anything to help you. Dane was a wonderful person to always tried to help to my mom is fiance. The we're taking away from their kids. They were taken away from us. My knees hannah may. She had a baby that i haven't even got to meet the kelly's carries mom and dad. They only know what we are all going through. And i know that in their hearts in their minds. They're hoping and praying every day. Just like we are that whoever did this will be brought to justice. Looking back at the wedding photo was hard to wrap our heads around. Is that all. The players are in this one picture. Christina gave us there they are the wagner's and the rodents smiling together and just six years later in november two thousand eighteen the wagner family would be arrested for the murders of the rodin's promised that the day would come when the rest would be made in the pike county massacres today is that day billy wagner his wife angela and their two sons. George jake are accused of multiple counts of murder billy angela. George jake wagner were all charged with eight counts of aggravated murder. Additionally angela wagner's mother read a new. Come and billy's mother frederico Will use of and obstructing justice for allegedly misleading investigators. Angela's mother renuka was also charged with forge in custody documents to cover up the crimes. Well what surprising was that you had these. Two grandmothers arrested frederico wagner and then Ngelo wagner's mother beat newcomb. You had two grandmothers being charged with helping to cover up these crimes because then your mind kind of goes wild you naturally think well did they know before it happened that you know if you're alleging they report of a cover up what happened. Though rita joe nukem reached a plea deal in which the bulk of the charges were dismissed and the charges against frederico wagner where eventually dropped the suspicion around the family grew and the ties that bound the wagner's and the rodents came into focus. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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That shakespeare from one of his unpublished works would be not for awakening. Nee give it. Though the berries fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more no. It's from gyco 'cause they help save people money. I hate to break it to you. But geico got it from shakespeare darko. Fifteen minutes could save you. Fifteen percent or more. We talked earlier about the baby. Hannah roden and jake wagner had together in two thousand thirteen the couple and their daughter split time between the rodent and the wagner households for everyone involved. The situation worked well however when the couple broke up in two thousand fifteen the families became bitter rivals broke that they were actually being indicted and charged. Felt like this must have been something personal. The animosity thirties to pinpoint one salient motive. In the case they say that the wagner were obsessed with custody really obsessed with their bloodline custody of the daughter that hannah roden shared with jake wagner. The prosecution says that was the heart of the motive in this case they wanted sole custody and they weren't going to stop until they got it investigative reporter jodi bar shocked by these allegations. I have never encountered this in my fifteen years of journalism where an entire family is accused of the mass murder of another family over. What's presumably if we're to believe the prosecution and the investigation over custody of children. I think it was the toughest part for me personally. Was dealing with what happens to those kids and then it comes out later. This was all about the kids and there was a fight over the kids. That was that was troubling to me. Personally like who would do that to have custody and to be able to love and nurture a child and yet have that act of violence within themselves to do that on their behalf. Those are two things that i just can't rectify in my mind was human nature to ask. Why why would someone perpetrate something so horrific that means we're we're going to radically eight you off the face the planet that's that's so on a biblical scale when been by god. We're gonna make sure that they're not just dead there. Julius caesar dead after their arrest the wagner's continue to maintain their innocence and their families with them every step of the way here's grandmother frederico wagner responding to reporters when asked if she thought her family was involved in the road and murders so -lutely not surrounding were deer that lysenko in the two years since the arrest most of considered the wagner's the most likely suspects in the road and murders. It appeared that they were very close group who greatly plan this massacre for months but at the same time it just beyond the pale to an entire family over custody. And now. After jake wagner's bombshell plea deal we wondered was the wagner bond breaking wagons were a cult like family and if the wags are accused of doing to the rodin's i mean. They're accused of doing this together. They're accused of trying to cover it up together as a family and the old cliche blood is thicker than water. Well like i don't know what the probability of in a colt one telling on another Especially with the consequences. That would come down. If one wagner told on another one went to prison you know the state had to depend on one wagon on another the chances of that happening or likely not very good now. Finally they're made some answers. You know who went into what home. who died. i why they died. You know why they chose to spare the children. So i would just hope we get to hear finally from someone at least jake wagner's case i mean where's the remorse remorse for what happened. And if not man this is again. There's a level beyond cold blooded evil if there is a level beyond that i think we have seen it. I don't know that we know what to call it. In all jaguar guilty to all eight aggravated murder charges as well as to fifteen other criminal counts that included conspiracy aggravated burglary and tampering. With evidence he also named his father. Billy his mother angela and brother george wagner as co conspirators in exchange for his plea. The death sentence was taken off the table for him and the rest of his family. But perhaps what's moshe shocking is at jake is actually going to testify. Against all of his family members it seems that the bare minimum. There's not a wagner that stepping out of prison anytime soon. The following real time audio from the courtroom when the prosecution laid out the charges against shake bag ner clarity repeating he in each members of his family to include billy Recliner and being hilty of all the counts continue investments filed in this matter based on the information now known by stating including a forthright statements of the overwhelming evidence. Defendant in the senate members of the family are in fact responsible for planning carrying out the size. Jaded mitigating the league hours of the twenty first two thousand sixteen inch early morning hours a bit. Twenty seconds and sixteen is when they admitted his side's we know that they trust hasn't eaten for residents were found intact anything. We're armed with firearms at two. Which means that. It's down when they did so we know that they conspired together in the end the time the science for the months that led up to the offensive. And they're all four come. You took part in that as well as making various purchases to accomplish urkel. You know that they knew. The phones ought to of the victims and cameras and other equipment of the order to away cassian. Jake also admitted to personally killing five. Members of the rodents himself though the victims were unnamed at this point is not dryer defendant has assets confessed and apologize committing these offenses with his family to personally causing job actors and either committee. All of the other offenses contained the very directly or by being complicit in that it was also noted that wagner provided investigators with information that led to the recovery of the weapons and vehicles used in the murders most sat down this statement. Many more details regarding instance someone which were very consistent with what the seat when hugh and would be had already been collected some of the information however was provided by a new in addition to the information they provided us what he told us let us to discover. Some evidence had yet specifically in the weapons that we use your offensive along with eagles reuse. Your these offenses including one. That was specifically tuesday night. Though jake was spared the death penalty prosecutors pulled no punches with the sentencing part of the green business investments of occasion in exchange for defending the state making joint recommendation to the court that the the eighth consecutive life without parole sensors forest lease council. Regain the environment. Jake slayers responded. We're fully satisfied that he's gone eyes wide. Open this agreement. He knows to die prison without a judicial release and as he said. I appreciate you mentioning it. S i'm sure you'll save more one. But they assessing arrives as horrifying as this is for all sore is one moment from the court. Proceedings stood out to us when the judge was running through each victim and got to hannah. Wrote in it was impossible. Not to notice when jake wagner had an audible pause and day noticeable smirk. What do you make of this smirk. When he is pleading guilty. He kind of smiled. I don't know if you noticed that. Oh i hear did that's my gallon. He's a former prosecutor and now a criminal defense attorney in ohio. He's been covering the case for years. I don't know how you could work up a smile. I don't care what you're thinking for something like that. What does that say about jay He's got a depraved mind. Anybody that could do that. I would not meet obviously the legal definition of sanity. But you know there's something wrong with them that you can beat that cold to go about doing that. I mean really. That's all. I can say i've been at this stuff for a long time and i've never seen one is i guess it comes to. My mind is hard core as s whenever being the little part working with like fascinating to canada by he was trying to hold back a lab or some ally okay. I don't know if you're hornblower shower. Or if you're carlos one of those awkward there was a different reaction when hannah's name came up maybe his reaction like that because by a personally killed or something. Ohio governor mike dewine who presided over the investigation as attorney general was at the pike county. Courthouse as jake's hearing unfolded. Well we've all read or heard of the book in cold blood. This was cold. Cold cold one. I mean this was calculated planned out. And just you know i mean it just chills you to think about the calculation that goes into something like this five years ago. Today i was here. We met with family members in the church. I committed to them that we would find who did this. And that we would bring them to justice. Justice done today and there was a collective sigh of relief from locals in southern ohio. Hi county resident. Barb explained her initial shock. I can't imagine that he would admit to murdering eight people and if he didn't do it he said guilty. I thought are you lying. What are you what are you doing you know. But then i thought oh my god i just i blew my mind. Britney tried to come to terms with the news. i'm just focusing on the good and good thing happened today. And i know they're in heaven looking down and just thinking how stupid. The walkers are thinking they would get away with christina put the day's events in perhaps the most poetic way possible to me and karma is a bitch and a catch up with everybody eventually. Run all you want. But you'll never outrun. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment ago. The greatest diamond in the would have found at movies before you pop. The question visit moves. 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He was doing it to keep her fell from getting the death and pretty much cowling all the rest of his family. Like yeah. we're gonna drag. You guys dow but i'm gonna save my but from again the fan. Was he pleading guilty to save himself for his family. The family has done nothing but fight. Fight fight in profess their innocence. This whole time and you know. I thought that they would fight this to the bitter end and tickets trial and see what they can do trial. So now you know if billy the controlling figure among the controlling figuring distant around jake's there to think for himself he has information on a lot of them and yes he did throw them under the bus but perhaps he saved their lives him. What's in store for. Jake's co conspirators. None of the other wagner's have pleaded guilty. So what could we see if they go to trial. I just think for a family that was so united and You know did things like take votes on finances and while nights and children. I mean they were. They looked you know as one unit. The prosecution has said in court papers. These people did nothing without consulting the other. This is a massive break a massive shift. I guess a huge crater in the middle of the wagner family kind of united sign. He is going to testify against his family members. Now i mean i. I don't know. I don't know anybody in hollywood. That could a better script in that know. How compelling is that something that that has this kind of gothic undertone to it. You know in rural america where these individuals are going to come forward and And stand and stare at him you think about staring in to the eyes of your kin folks across the room as you're sitting in the dock there and you're looking at them straight in the eyes and People that you've spent thanksgiving with a christmas is You know the moment's wretched life and you're looking at them and you're potentially sending them to bourboule gallows bumper to what you're going to say but what happens if the other three wagner's reach plea deals as well if any other guilty plea in this case in the way jake wagner's ended. We still may not know exactly why this happened. The thing possible murder it. You go back to april twenty second twenty sixteen in a month after. I mean everyone had assumed that this was a drug cartel hit it fit. It made sense. The only way this could happen is a highly skilled. Trained assassin would come in to pull this off and get away with it. I want to know exactly what happened that night you know. How do they get in the homes. We know the end. We've got some idea what happened in the middle. But i wanna know about. The beginning was is truly about custody. You know i would just like to know you know exactly. Why from j wagner. When did the switch flip to where the only resolution to whatever was going on between him. And the rodents that point was to go and kill them all makes absolutely no sense One thing is certain there's only more bombshells to come. We'll be tracking the case in real time as they develop proved that the investigators and the prosecutors did their job was the biggest murder case in the history of the state and they got their man the relationship fractured. However you want to describe it. You know there's no turning back from his family now. The prosecution now hold on the coach and it seems justice has begun to be served now. Three more wagner's to go. The peyton massacre returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared ten additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves. The pike massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and katie studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A management concepts delivers the training federal employees need for every stage of their career. Over two hundred seventy five courses taught online and in classrooms by expert instructors new leadership and acquisition courses available for twenty twenty one management concepts dot com in the land of diamonds mervyn king mcqueen with a gorgeous nervous diamond before you go down on one. Knee visit nervous. Diamond importers with a huge selection of high quality diamonds. 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Introducing: The Piketon Massacre Season 2
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Episode 2- Cinnamon and Hay
"To show you how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera star. Gracious me my car has storm damage. And i had to file. A claim couldn't possibly get worse when my claims team leave me for someone else. Someone less intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team. Who promises to stay with you throughout the process. I've never known such loyalty. I can't wait for the second season. Geigo great service without all the drama. Dr larry enters. I'm a psychology professor at yale. And i started to notice that a lot of my students weren't happy so i created a new class. Well if i'm everybody to psychology and the good life but it's not just my student who need to understand the science being and that's why we launched the happens lab so you can learn about it too. Are you ready to feel happier head to the i. Heart radio app apple podcasts. Or if you like to listen brought to you by discover- discover something writer. Welcome to the pike and massacre production of i heart radio and katie studios. Who brown in such a sweetheart. Every bank her he originally pleaded not guilty to the murder of eight. Rhone family members say that he was guilty him. It just gives you the complete personally. Killing five of the eight and to trying to burn and get rid of evidence will now avoid the death penalty and the rest of his life in prison from making that outrageously mad he to killed to ocean or tonight just answering to the jones here live control. All the special prosecutor said the laggers were a cult like family. I think it was still angeles behind the scenes control of everything went a little puppet master. This is the piketty massacre return to pike county season. Two episode to cinnamon and hey. I'm courtney armstrong television producer at katy studios with stephanie lydecker. And jeff. shane unable twenty-second twenty-one jig pleaded guilty to twenty three counts including eight aggravated murder charges in the road and murder case. The motive behind the killings back in two thousand sixteen according to prosecutors was a custody dispute between jake and victim. Hannah may roden over their young daughter as it stands the other three wagner's accused in the murderers jake's father billy mother angela and brother george have all pled not guilty. The day that jake appeared in court for his plea deal we caught up with christina. Howard her sister tabby had a relationship with the accused eldest son george wagner the two were married and had a son together but eventually divorced when you found out for a fact that jake was guilty. What was your reaction. My reaction was like wow and away speechless because me and him were friends. When we're ghandour new. Never really think about somebody who is or once was a friend being able to take seventy live like that. Won't last season christina told us a little bit about a custody dispute that ensued between tabby and george wagner couple split up it piqued our interest when we heard about it since it foreshadowed what was to come for hannah. Roden christina was a little hesitant to divulge too much last time we spoke but in light objects plea she chose to delve into tabby story a little more and what we found is far darker and much more disturbing than we could have ever imagined. What follows christina's recollection of the events christina's relationship with the wagner. Family goes back to her childhood. Her mother began working for grandmother of the accused. Frederico wagner whom christina affectionately refers to as freddy when she was a kid and she was like a grandmother in a way out good work with my mother and i would hang around freddie a lot and featuring my family pretty kindly on holidays she would always get me and my sisters person then have christmas dinner than easter dinner and it was like you know the part of her family. It was pretty nice eventually christina and her sister tabby mit frederica grandsons george and jake wagner christina jeff george and tabby hit it off and soon became a couple. They got together when they were young teens. I think my sister was like thirteen fourteen. You know and they ended up liking each other. You think the georgia's bad news was a little bit of a troublemaker. Christina tag along when tabby went to visit george at the wagner's home. They had like this little like house up on the hill and they have like their own. Little pond. affair was pretty isolated. They had a privacy gate bottom that in order to get in somebody up at the top of the house would have to come down and unlock it. Me george jake and taibbi. We would like go outside and you know these young teenager kid type stuff and play pat Jump on the plane and the tree house and all that it was really fun and we could be rowdy and noisy as we wanted because they didn't have no neighbor whatsoever while jordan tabby hanging out christina's struck up a friendship with jake wagner. Jake was actually a really nice kid mayhem okada friends. Here's pretty cool He was really nice. Kinda shy. Who played video games all that. Good stuff as a kid. Jake struck christina as kind and almost unusually empathetic. I remember in greek bedroom. You know he had his own little. Tv and a video game with them and all that stuff and he had this one duck and it was like hanging on the wall or something and it kinda gave me the creeps whenever a little kid and he was poisoned enough to take off his wall and hide it in a closet or something because that game or the creep. The more time christina spent at the home the more familiar should became with the boy's mother accused murderer angela wagner. She sometimes referred to as angie christina told stephanie that on the surface everything about angela wagner seemed to personify the typical all american mom front would like this my little walkway flowers and the white picket fence except in the country. Kinda deal and then like you go and find the house or the kitchen and then the kitchen and the living room and it's pretty big. They got this huge sectional and an i big. Tv house smells like it. Kinda smells like cinnamon mixed. Hey i dunno. She couldn't really imagine that but like takes the may around everywhere sentiment in it. And that's what my wife angela. Make us some snacks or from launch. Or whatever i think even like maybe twice. She made us. Dinner was pretty good. She sounds a homemaker which is again. What makes it so shocking. To imagine that she had the ability to do something so her thick but the more time christina spent at the wagner home the relationship between the wagner boys and their mother came into focus they were always around their mom no matter what their mom wet always is. They wanted to play outside longer. If angie said no it was no and they wanna play video games longer and said no it was no even if like they leader so better she put her foot down main and like you better listen to me. I'm gonna book your but and they're just like all right mama it matter. What energy said of what went as the kids got older angela wagner seems take more control over her boys lives especially. Jake riyadh a job somewhere and his mom actually made him quit the job because she said that the job wasn't good enough for him. Meaning angela wagner jake. Wagner's mom said this jobs over. It's not good enough real. Yeah it's like you know your mom controls your whole entire live. And it wasn't long before. Angela turned her controlling ways towards christina's family. Angie may george break-up or tabby. Because angie like my sister because you know george and jake were mama's boys and ain't nothing in the world and be able to still her boys from her she was just so control wearing seen angela. Wagner's true colors began to shine through her all american facade and some photos that i've seen a vanja she looks smiley and she's pretty and just looks like an all american mom but then in other pictures like her mugshot for example she sort of grimacing and has a scary vibe what was she like imprison and parson see was the tide. You know Saw about everyday stuff like how you doing. How's your family and everything else like that. But it felt like whenever she would talk to you. It felt like an act. She was putting on like you know she was working down on. Your kind of thing is at least. That's what i always picked up. See things like putting on math Make people think that she's all right or whatever. But i never really did liker. She's a boop me. After the wagner family was arrested twenty eighteen. The families unusual dynamic became a key building block and the state's case against angela. Billy jake and george wagner on august thirty first of last year george wagner appeared in court for a pretrial hearing special agent ryan scheider of the ohio bureau of criminal investigation testified that day. He provided details of what authorities had uncovered about the wagner's over two years of investigating. Here's prosecutor angie kanada questioning agent. Scheider how would you describe the wagner family. The widener family from what we found through the investigation as well as their own admittances very close. When i say close they lived together. They've always lived together. There's not been a period in time. Where george wagner has not live with his brother or his mother but their finances are intermingled. They worked together. They always worked together. They home school together. They raise their kids together. Everything is done together. cell from birth. Dating were arrested together. Yes do you have an opinion as to whether or not one of them might strike out and go commit some time out the others. Knowing about four participating we have an informant who says every decision within that family is made as a family decision years after angelo wagner for storage wagner and abby howitt's relationship to end the couple of rekindled their romance soon after victim. Hannah may rodents started going out with jake wagner and the rodents wagner's and how words became very close. Hannah's brother of victim. Frankie roden even joined the fray and And hobby were best friends. Hannah jake were together. And tabby and george would have gathered and frankie would hang out with them a lot because they were like best friends. Frankie i suppose so they were always wipe going out hunting and fishing and stuff then one day tabby came to her family with some surprising news. She george wagner. We're getting married. We didn't know anything about it until shortly before it so hair. Aaron salt lake is like wow. That's crazy instead of excitement. Christina felt something much different based on her time spent around the family and accused mother. Angela wagner in particular. They're just didn't feel right to me. And i thought i think my mind about it. I told her i said listen. You don't wanna marry him. And she said worldwide on. I said because his mom is very controlling. I said you want to wait a few years and see how things go before you jump in again married them and stuff and she said well. You're just Full love you don't know what you're talking about. We love each other. And everything. And angie just trying to look out for me. So that par. I feel like and the you know. Like kinda turned her against her family. A bit more of like a. I don't need you. And i'm going to spend my time with my family. I get more her to get married. Because of the way i felt but i felt like it wasn't my place to intervene. If she's happy letter. Be so figure it out on july first twenty twelve all three families gathered for tabby howard and george wagner's wedding knows a normal pretty wedding. It was kinda country. 'cause you know tabby see how they Camouflage dress and george. He had a cameo tugs. Everybody's camouflage crazy around here. They love hanging up. Somebody wants her. Favorite color is and they're like oh it's camouflaged. And two of my sisters and hannah or her bridesmaids the bridesmaids we war black dresses and jay was georgia's best man. Obviously the wagons were. There was friday and angela. And billy than some of the other rodents were there and i was walking down the aisle with frankie smash cake. I guess you'd call it where you smashing faces good wedding. We talked last episode about the photo of the rodents and wagner's from tabby georgia's wedding and we can't stop looking at it because it's just so chilling the happiness in everyone's face is palpable but christina now seen details in pictures she never saw before and my mind i feel like the people in the pitcher should be sorted out there for you know like in this placement as like tabby and george is set off to the side because even though they're getting married they're not like the main attraction and angie is blog top center where white dress like lacking in their faith by hogs all beneath me. Yeah i was gonna ask you because people have different views but some people think you don't wear white anyone else's wedding why would underwear white to another person's wedding. I mean you're supposed to do that. Because that is like supposed to be like bad juju on the married couples like saying that. I have bigger wedding on. Why long contemplating. It's clear. That george wagner and tabby howard's wedding marked an inflection point in the lives of all three families. After that day nothing would ever be the same shortly after the wedding. We stopped here in from her. The last thing that we heard from tabby was that she was pregnant with my nephew and she was giving birth him and that was it. We didn't get no pictures of him. We didn't hear anything from tabby. Nothing from angela. Or george or antibody. They just like straight up appeared. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. 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Make the most of your flexible spending account take the guesswork out of your ffa shop now at ffa store dot com and use the promo code flex or fifteen dollars off orders over one hundred fifty. That's ffa store dot com promo code flex. Nobody knew where they were knew what they were doing or anything and it will like that for a couple of years. Everybody was so concerned about my sister. Because we're like you know. We literally have not heard thang from her. Then one night tabby suddenly resurfaced like a random call in the middle of the line from gas station from a number. we didn't and she's calling us telling us hey. Can you come get me. I'm here at this gas station. And you know we're forgetting out what's going on. We ain't heard nothing from the nfl years. she said. I don't really have time to explain. Can come get me And all that so. We packed up in a car. It was me my mom and dad to go get my sister and then we get there and she's bawling her eyes out. She wrote there in the middle of the night Raining cats and dogs outside. She's all wet and cold. She wrote bear on a bike and the police showed up and put my sister in a car in the cop car aston or what was going on and everything and apparently her george got into fi. angie called cops owners said that she was beating georgeanne. Anyone not by four and everything else and Charges stabbing what scissors and all this than tabby said that. That wasn't how it happened. She said she was know. I guess you got into a fight. With george. And angie after george what why let her go and get his hands off ever have any Mark zoning to prove tabby had beaten him tabby didn't have any marks on her to prove that he was putting his hands on her so nobody got arrested. Just copy just got questioned and all that and then you know. She comes home with Yeah we're sitting there trying to catch up on everything with tabby howard told her family. That night was deeply disturbing. Here's christina recollection of her sister's story according to tabby angie wouldn't let her like have fell. Man she always said that tabby was crazy and she was telling us all about how she was control. Laying tabby said that she wasn't allowed to Do anything with her kid. And angie always said no. You're not you're crazy. You're an unfit mother. She said that she would all time. George about what's going on and everything and george was like. Oh it's okay. You're just being dramatic. Mom would do that to. And it's all for your own good blah blah blah. We're just looking out for you. But why would they do that. What would they have to gain from. you know. sitting there chemo. Line sister is basically a prisoner and sitting there like mentally abusing our everything else. What what would they have the game from other than you know. When i ask you. Christina story about tabbies escaped from the wagner household may sound outrageous however it was convincing enough for agent. Scheider to testify about it in court during george wagner's hearing last year. Was george remarried. Yes he married tabitha and did he stole them in the family at the time during the time he was merely taboo topic. Delivered with your okay. Are you aware of what happened. The ended that relationship. Yes she fled. the relationship. There was an incident on one particular day on her and george had gotten into an argument. Sider included a few frightening details. That christina hadn't told us eventually there was a comment by angelo that she was going gonna kill tabitha so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned actually specifically she. I hit on the property until nightfall biden and drove to a gas station meter escape that way and never went back to the soon. After tabby howard fled the wagner's household. The family became too much for victim. Hannah may roden to bear as well. Hanner i guess. She told my sister that that was really courageous. Ever she's proud of her. She was saying that she was tired of it. Tired of always being controlled and told what to do and everything so a hand. I decided that she was going to leave to it. Seems that hannah may roden left. Jaguar do the same reasons. Tabby howard left george. Some of these details were illuminated at that same hearing for george wagner last year. Here's prosecutor angie connect questioning agent ryan scheider about some messages anime had written. They were two other rodent family members and whereabout jake their break-up and her relationship with new boyfriend charlie. Were you aware why he made last Domestic violence issues between shake salty. Her and you observe specific communications about that. Yes she made it aware. She made people aware of did she also make comments out the wagner family as a whole being controlling. Yes after she had left jake she started seeing another individual. In ultimately conceived a second child with dot in the digital correct. Yes and that was surely dealing in. Are you aware as to whether or not told jake that she was pregnant and she also told him who the father of the child she. She told jake as well as angela that she was pregnant. And charlies gillies child okay during that time after she was penetrated dealings child In the months leading up to homicides did she make it clear to jay that they were not getting back together very clear and has he asked her to engage in dialogue with an attorney in order to try to work out custody between them. Yes he made attempts to get yours and she interested in doing that. By the time. Hannah may road and left tabby howard was in the middle of her own custody battle with jake's brother george wagner while we don't know all the details of george wagner and tabbies custody case there is evidence to support christina's account of it was a preview of. What would come to bear for hanna. May in the following months sister was gonna do joint custody My mom tried to help a sister go through core and all that with all that. You're trying to help her. And my sister tom my mom she said no. It's okay ngo help me out with it. And why she just. Angie with the is beyond me and why she's still wanted to trust her was core auto now head but somehow she got tabby the sign. Some paperwork saying that george would Get full custody of my nephew aired that tab would only get visitation rights like on their terms. She wasn't allowed to leave. The the property was my nephew. Tabby howard's custody story was also highlighted by eight scheider. last year. There was a divorce with some child. Custody issues where she was forced to give up all control of her son to george so she gave up all her rental rights. And you see. She was forced to did someone gun to her head. No okay But in fact what she pro se in custody proceeds in not not represented by an attorney crowd And yes despite the wagner's repeated attempts to keep tabby away from her son. She tried to visit him as much as she could. Whenever we would try to reach out to. George hey come. I come visit might son. Angela would get on their all bees. Not your son anymore. You might have gave barcelona in on his real mother. Because i take care of a and all these nasty things. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. Mattress warehouse knows that buying a mattress can be tough with so many choices. Where do you start introducing bed match a patented diagnostic system. That determines your pressure points and recommends the mattresses that are best for your individual sleep needs and it's found only at mattress warehouse come. Tried that match at a mattress warehouse near you. Visit sleep happens dot com for locations and get free next day delivery on select purchase. 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A tabby howard made one last valiant effort to see her son. It was an easter. Because i remember my sister made her son an easter basket. You know wanting to give it you for easter and everything. I went there with her It was me her. My mom and mom stayed in the car. And i got out of the car with tabby and we walk up there. You know Offer normal award 'cause she had previously called george asked If she could come see her son and give him an easter basket he said. Yeah that's fine Come on over and you can see Your son and give him his easter basket and she said all right so we went there and then once we got their energy answered the door and tabby said oh. I'm here to see my son. Atmosphere managed to you know spend. A few minutes was aim for easter decide. Let me go get george. And and she's slammed the door and my sister's things out their way in a good ten fifteen minutes and then towards comes out she stored. She said what was that about. Why was your mom being able. I didn't do anything. And he was like. Oh a she's a good move today and she said where where's our son you know i'd like to san. You said i could come in. And he said oh he's in there With a fever right now. He's sick from staying. Are ball my day throwing a fit and everything else you know. Just coming up with another is then. My sister started crying. She said wanna just wanted to see my son. You said i gotta what's the problem and was like old old cry and everything's all right and then a wide tried to hug her and she said no on a wanna hug you know she said. Don't touch me and he's like all right. I won't touch you. you know. She was like wiping away. Tears and stuff. She said well. Can you at least give this to our son and if you have time whenever he gets it can you send me. A picture of him wasn't even if it's just a pitcher. I'm happy to see my son. I don't know if he ever got the easter basket or not or if they throw it away i don't know like tabby howard victim. Hannah may rodent. Kept up the fight for her child after she and j wagner had broken up but the rodents had one advantage tabby. Didn't we didn't have money like the romans got money. They had money to Maybe not as much as the bay still they feel. You live pretty damn comfortably if they wanted to. you know. Take andrew to court. And all that then angie would have a real problem on our hands especially since they have money to and hannah was the mom and here in ohio. The mom has had the right and they weren't married. Your sister and george were married. Which immediately changes the city discussion from the start. So unlike with the two of you had and jake unmarried so he legally had no rights so that became an added trigger potentially right and it seems that the wagner's knew that we talked last season about forge custody documents the wagner had drawn up in order to get sole custody of hannah wrote in and jake wagner's young daughter agent scheider discussed the genesis of these custody. Documents also called declaration documents in great detail. George wagner's hearing last year. Here's an excerpt from that testimony. You seize the computer. From wagner's that correct correct okay and that computer was analyzed for evanescence crash during that review of the content of the computer. You discovered that there had been documents. Google search for on april thirty two thousand six hundred right declaration documents correct and then you also see that. Those documents will print it out of the computer on the same day. Yes the bottom of the pages that says april third twenty sixteen like computer sometimes deal when you print something. It says danger predrag. Did you ultimately recover those documents. The actual physical clocking yes. Okay and schwartz testimony. That one of them was a declaration. Reportedly made were apparently made by where it for. What was intended to be her signature. Correct did you submit all of these documents to be examined by the drive inexpert within. Okay did you find out if in fact that was we did. It was not for signature. Additionally you talked about the empathy with dated at a prior time in clear are you saying that they were in fact that yes dot is backdated as if it were signed in two thousand fourteen correct okay. So they print out of newspaper april. Two thousand sixteen. You see evidence about in the computer toss a printed out that same day you later also recover the original documents. We have raised stamp on and that didn't exist in two thousand fourteen correct so could not have been signed up correct prosecutor. Angie connecticut noted the unusual settlement on the wagner's forged custody documents. Cannon is to meet her denies fia should go to jake butt if jake meets his demise. His child goes to his mom correct. Correct last season. We highlighted facebook. Message that hannah road had written. During her protracted custody battle with jake it was discovered on a laptop owned by the wagner. Family agent scheider spoke about that message and the warnings she received from someone who is intimately familiar with the wagner's to fairus ways at the hearing. You talked about the fact that this relationship between was not going well that he was bugging her to sign stuff getting custody. Obviously documents that if she were to die would get custody. Wizard ace specific communication. That sticks out in your mind that hidden made made to another person rags became aware of yes facebook message. Okay messenger message okay. So messenger message. And who was that message to. Patricia would be tabitha's mother tabs on his ex wife. You said it was kind of messenger. Correct yes and so. If i'm understanding correctly private messenger is not something that anyone else would be seen except for the two people that are messaging correct. Are you aware whether or not the wagner's became aware of that conversation. Absolutely we're aware of that There's a screenshot of this conversation found on the laptop that belonged the widener family. The device was registered to jake butt. There's strong evidence that angela to be the primary user of that. Can you tell us. What were they discussing at the time that she made the statement. The theme of the conversation was basically patricia. Was telling hannah you know. Don't let what happened to tabitha. Have the you don't keep fighting for your kid. Don't give up your kid you know. Basically saying don't become another tabitha. And what does he say in response to that. This is the copy of the body of their techs conversation and her replies. I won't sign papers ever. It won't happen. They will have to kill me. I have not only did. Was that these sentiments. At the time that she would not sign papers ever that they would have to kill him. This was her sentiments on december tenth. Two thousand and fifteen and you know for a fact that the radnor saw it in fact the same data. She said that in just four months later in dollar per family are dead correct. I'm question after the rodent family was murdered. Christina howard and her family were panicked party much. A whole bloodline get marked off over the custody of one kid and you know my sister is. She's got a kid with them too. And you know after we heard about. We've otit better up on security because we ain't we ain't about to get crossed out. But when the wagner's were arrested in two thousand eighteen tabby howard's nightmare finally came to an end once they were arrested He was in like a child protective services for while at after few months she was finally granted full custody of her son following. Jake wagner admission in court. Just weeks ago. Christina had to come to terms with their feelings about the one wagner. She thought she could always trust grandmother. The accused frederica gullible. They probably told her some crazy stuff. Like all the people are after they're trying to frame us for murders blah blah blah. Well of course if. I'm gullible i'm gonna hi. I'm not saying she did or ernie thing but like and in that kind of situation. Yeah so what does the wagner sorted history mean if angela billy and george decide to stand trial. They all maintain their pleas of not guilty. It may force jake wagner to go to court and sit in front of his mother father and brother in front of a jury spillers guts in a lot of things. We have it known in the last five years or going to be known. Then you know who went into what home. who died. i why they died. You've got to believe we're going to learn things we never knew before it here things you would have never believed. And if the trial's move forward the stakes for pike county. Prosecutors couldn't be higher the case the prosecution is building against the wagner family. It's not a single story ranch. It's a frigate mansion and they're investing a lot of a lot of hours a lot of capital in this thing and they don't want to fail because if this thing fails can you imagine what a nightmare this is. If one little thing goes wrong with the whole case can be destroyed. But on april twenty as twenty twenty one less than one week after jake. Wagner's plea deal took place. His brother george appeared in a pike county. Courtroom reporter ange net levi was on the scene george just found out and the week prior that his brother had confessed and implicated his whole family. His attorney had been so steadfast in court documents in saying my guy didn't do this he wasn't involved clearly now. His brother was saying. That's not the case that george fourth was very much involved. I think we were all wondering. What is this missions hearing going to be like steward wagner going to change his plea more on that next time The peyton massacre returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker kris graves. Tim hamilton and haley nielsen engineering by jason freeman. The pike massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and katie studios for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. 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Episode 7- 4,000 Miles Away
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Or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you by discover- discover something brighter. Welcome to the pike and massacre a production of radio katy studios episode seven. Four thousand miles. Away i'm courtney armstrong television producer at katy studios with stephanie decker and jeff. Shane after own family was brutally cut down in their homes. Authorities embarked on what would become the largest homicide investigation in ohio's history. Over the course of the cases first year law enforcement officers began compiling a staggering amount of clues that they hoped would lead to the killers. Ohio attorney general. Mike dewine giving an update in the pike. County received eight hundred eighty three tips. We've conducted four hundred sixty five interviews line. Says there have also been thirty. Eight search warrants issued but so far no arrests that we made significant progress but by early twenty seventeen the evidence that authorities had collected was pointing them towards one group of people in particular the wagner. Family that spring. With the case heating up the wagner's decided to leave the piped-in area With jake wagner and hannah rodin's daughter sophia until they sold their farm packed up their belongings and joe. Four thousand miles north to keanae alaska. A city of about eight thousand people southwest of anchorage. It was a move that wagner relative array not only encouraged but conceived of laid been wanting to move to alaska for a while because the pastor of the church known there he he's very important headstone and their family. I'm on told them. Go to alaska number one. The state of ohio cannot afford extra right you from back home. I just thought it was the greatest they took off. I said that's the best in the world for the kids and it's the best thing in the world for you guys. The family quickly got settled in keanae. They live together in a double wide trailer. On a large piece of property billion. Angela even registered to vote. Jeff talked to one of the wagner's family relatives who kept in touch with them while they were in alaska. She has not to use her name but told us about their life once they arrived. What was their life in alaska. Well jake has got a job stretching type business. Angela didn't work. I think she might have done some things from like home over the internet or something like that and bill. I'm not sure what he did exactly. But they did have a very nice home in alaska that they were in the process of trying to buy from what i understand anyways and Jake he had sofi at the time and they just kind of were getting the wagner sudden departure left the whole town of peyton bewildered and suspicious. Dana rodin's friends steph. Van remembers the day. She heard the news. She shared her thoughts with jeff or when they left for alaska hours like. Oh wow they're gonna they're they're ramat iran and then i thought there they'll get away with if they did this. If they did this they will get away with it or people talking about the wagner was the feeling that they might have been guilty or what. People thinking or speculating in town. Yeah they pretty much off the you know. That was the that was the deal. They were running traumatic. But the wagons relocation didn't hinder the investigation according to reporter james pilcher. It only helped to move the case forward. They moved to alaska which raise even more suspicion but then the very following my law enforcement actually finally searches the properties. Where the wagner's left so that was really the first public indication that the wagner's were possible suspects if not people of interest so that started to tighten the news in terms of the wagner's on june six twenty seventeen as the investigation pressed on attorney general. Mike dewine appeal to the public for information connecting the wagner's to the crime. Investigators want any information about the family including information about vehicles. Guns and ammunition. Anyone with information is asked to call the investigative journalists jodi barr recalled the attorney general's announcement other than being on the ground pike county and hearing wacker's names. Come up from time to time in you. you had no verifiable leads or you would exhaust all. That was the first time that anything was said in public from anybody with this investigation that they may have people that they looking at and who potentially at something to do with this time. When new stent of the evolvement of the investigators believed the wagons may have had it was just. They were asking for help. And that seemed really strange but it also the other end it connected some of the pieces that we have heard in the beginning know that maybe gave way to the custody issues that we were trying to dig into before but it was still just There was still confusing. That they would come out and say that and no arrests made no indictments made but yet they were asking for help. Does densify not unusual that they would just kind of like blatantly. Say a name and be like. Does anyone know anything about this person. Who's not had official suspect or someone. We've arrested even. It's just confusing. And i would love to have a male governor. Mike dewine played in the way they played it. Did they know they needed to know. Then were they. Try to the wagner's misstep when they nail this might winds press release prompted the wagner family attorney john k clark to accuse law enforcement of harassing his clients. Here's jeff followed by stephanie. In a statement. The cincinnati enquirer. The lawyer said that the authorities were clueless incompetent or they themselves were involved in a cover up in short. His clients were innocent. That's because according to clark the wagner's were cooperating with officials and had provided authorities with everything they had asked for including laptops phones and dna willingly and they also agree to repeat it interviews with the ohio bureau of criminal investigation. Clark even said the wagner's told bbc agents that they were in fact moving. I spoke with former prosecutor. Mike allen about the legal implications of the wagner's cooperation. What about the wagner's and their compliance with authorities. I know their lawyer has said they've cooperated one hundred and ten percent. Can you talk through the details of that. Sure i mean from what i understand. They did turn over some things. Laptops phones that they submitted to dna Getting exemplars which it could be compelled to do anyway Some of them at least were interviewed by ohio. Bci agents. and i guess they told those agents that they were traveling and and about the move to alaska and they claim they have been thinking about that for a long time. So i mean from what i can see. There was some cooperation but it was one hundred ten percent. I don't know. And frankly. I doubt because the rarely happens. Does that do anything when it comes to. Juries does that hold sway. it can You know in closing argument. The defense lawyer could stand up and say to the jury my client you know. He cooperated one hundred and ten percent. You know meaning that he has nothing to hide. The cincinnati enquirer even track the family down in alaska in july of twenty seventeen in a published article jake wagner said that he had moved to give so fia better life. This is jody bar again. The cincinnati enquirer obviously went there and they found him. I mean if they didn't try to slip off in the middle of the night it didn't seem i mean if a reporter could find him. Obviously law enforcement knew very much. Were they were at that point in time. I mean as far as the level of cooperation. We haven't heard anything. Yet that said the wags were operating with law enforcement. Did they do it. We want to know now. Obviously everybody wants to know right now you know. Let the process play out but man if they're cooperating as attorney says they're giving over computers laptop. dna whatever retakes you know people who aren't expiration criminology. We look at that and go man. That sounds like an innocent person. An innocent person will be doing that despite their involvement in a very large and very active investigation the wagner's were trying to start a new life in alaska and didn't seem to have any intention of returning. Here's our anonymous wagner family source. When i look at how things going you know winter. You guys get come back and visit or so for. She was kind of just really backwards about it. She never would really tell me what they were doing. She never really said when she would be back home to visit just that she misses you know and that she would love to be able to come home but right now. She can't and that she made the comment or and said that if she did get to come back that she couldn't tell me over the phone that she would just basically have to show up and that once she made it here then she would come. I let me know. But that she didn't want people find out about it in alaska. The family went about life as normal. They tried to fit into the local community and became parishioners at the local church. Their pastor even described them to the dayton daily news as quote. Good country people. We reached out to the pastor. Who declined to speak with us. It was at this same church jake. Wagner was introduced to another churchgoer. Elizabeth armor the couple dated for several months and then in march twenty eighteen. They got married. This is jody bar. I've seen you know people on no loss of spouse in their married again six months if he's innocent and he got remarried. He wanted to carry on with his life and maybe the nets it but if he really is guilty of having a hand in killing eight people and one of those being the mother of his own child and then he enters into valve with another woman in love that i don't know i don't know what kind of person you are dealing with here. Here's stephanie talking about what she learned by looking at. Elizabeth armour's facebook posts. She took to facebook to let the world. Now just how dangerous being involved with the wagner's could be elizabeth set in one of her post that god told her to come forward about her relationship with jake wagner according to her posts. Elizabeth met jake through the church and then was encouraged to get to know him by her pastor but she maintained that she had no idea that the wagner's were involved in such large murder investigation and when that news of the road massacre came up. The pastor had vouched for the wagner's telling her that the charges were just slander against the family. However in another post she said she wanted to just be a mother to sophia but that she ended up marrying her worst nightmare. All of those posts have since been taken down. We've tried to find her and contact her directly and she's literally nowhere to be found then. In the spring of twenty eighteen two years after the roads were killed. The wagner shocked. Everyone again this time. By returning to the piped-in area are wagner. Family relative explained why they decided to come home from what i have understood just a little bit. Let's talk to angela and then our family. In general talking they had earned came back wrong because belts family. Father got sick and they couldn't afford or they were losing what that home and everything that had their in alaska so i basically just like a handful of that type of stuff so they decided that they were gonna come back down here and they were just get everything basically situated here once that happens and once i got back on their feet basically than they were planning to go back. They wanted to go back. Angela wanted to go back there. She made that clear To her father multiple times that that was going to be you know they were really looking forward. She believes in just wanted to be there but they had a bunch of stuff is thought. Take care of in order for that to happen. The move seemed baffled. One in peyton. Here's local resident. Angie if you think about it the wagner's scott they went to alaska it took off and nobody could ever seen them again ever but they came back here. They came back now. By the way did i am. I would never do that. But if i had pulled something off like that and got away with that room in which alaska new unpacking my shit and i'm hitting the woods and nobody's ever seen again. I sure the hell not gonna come back. The only way i would come back is if i thought my ass covered upon returning to peyton. The wagner's tried to fly under the radar and return to life as normal but are wagner family relative told jeff that their homecoming was anything but welcome when they came back. Where people kind of like has that story died down or people like. Oh the wagner's are back. It would probably quiet for about. I don't know two three weeks at that. And then everybody found out that they were back in town and they just absolutely tortured daily. Everybody had parted basically attacking then the community Accusing them of murdering those people if they were in town and people identified Their vehicle they would throw balls at them Angela had actually went into a store. One day on some woman had actually up behind angeles. She was coming back out of the store and through a glass key bottle after and it busted her in the back she was constantly getting it was left and right like anybody that knew them or that new. Our family like where we've lived on there was a handful of people had drove by my house and then they were throwing stuff. 'cause i live kind of right on the highway and my house is very easy to but i have no privacy. So when they i was getting trashed people were throwing their trash out In my yard in my driveway they were trying to hit while we might me and my son the you know they were just doing my work. Place My vehicle was parked outside and my vehicle got keyed. They had of course threw eggs on it. All that type stuff wrote a murderer on it. When i had absolutely nothing to do with any of that as things began to unravel for the wagner's law enforcement was tightening up the case against the family. It seemed like it was only a matter of time before they were arrested. Brushed the gators now. Believe there were multiple attackers as according to information from the ohio attorney. General's office you'll high attorney. General says investigation is progressing. Wayne adds his office knows a lot more about what goes on in those pike county hills. Now i know a lot more today. I have cracked the case. Have we come up with enough evidence to arrest someone and get them convicted. Now we have not but we made progress. Oh yeah we've made a lot of progress. On halloween of twenty eighteen authorities conducted yet another search on a wagner family property this time a farm formerly owned by jake george wagner during that raid investigators uncovered a homemade silencer at the bottom of a well. It would seem to be the final piece of the puzzle for investigators as we discussed in great detail. In episode two on november thirteenth angela and billy wagner and their two sons jake and george wagner. Were arrested for the murders of members of the royal family major developments tonight in a bizarre and tragic murder case to two and a half years but arrests have finally been made in the pike. County massacre george. Billy wagner the third. He's forty seven. Also 48-year-old angela wagner twenty-seven-year-old george wagner the fourth and twenty six year old edward jake wagner now facing charges attorney general announced two more arrests of people accused of being involved angeles mother renuka new and billy's mother fridge rica wang we're also arrested today conjunction with the cover of these cry. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. 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So sign up online advance. Your career with courses from management concepts get catalog management concepts dot com or call eight three three five seven eight hundred four sixty six angela belly jake. George wagner were charged with aggravated murder. angela wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem and billy wagner's mother frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nukem was also charged with forgery. Six of them pled not guilty and our justice system presumes innocence until guilt is proven at first blush. It seems farfetched to believe that these two grandmothers had a and conspiring to pull off. Ohio's largest mass murder. Jeff spoke with mike allen about the charges against frederico wagner frederica has been charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. So how do you explain that to someone who like me who never been to law school or doesn't know what it means well. Perjury is pretty simple. Under ohio law it just basically says that you cannot knowingly make a false statement in an official proceeding while you are under oath. It's real simple. And the obstructing justice is pretty simple as well. Law provides that you can't With purpose hinder the discovery apprehension or prosecution of a person do anything that would assist someone in doing that. And that's one that That's pretty frequently. You don't see perjury charged a lot. Because it's so difficult to prove but convicted opposed. She would be facing for years. Max plainly stated prosecutors think frederico is lying to them and trying to hinder the investigation to cover up for her family. We'll get into the specifics of her leader for now. Here's stephanie followed by jeff. We wondered if there was anything in frederico wagner's past that could have indicated that she would be involved in something as gruesome as mass murder. As we know the wagner's were well known and well to do family in the area and frederico wagner was at the helm abyss a self-described entrepreneur she owned properties oliver pike county that spanned over seventeen hundred acres and we're valued at more than four million dollars. She also found to nonprofits lucasville mission. A church that helps underprivileged children and the crystal springs home a facility that provide services to developmentally disabled adults as we've learned throughout the series frederica had her detractors. As well as her supporters in the community growing up christina howard spent a lot of time with frederica in fact her mom worked out the crystal springs home. She was pretty well known by everybody if he wasn't doing a charity or something outside of church and she was doing more in church she over two hundred acres of land than a lot of people that lived on her property at sea ran out to sea would say hey you know if you come to church then. I won't georgia diamond rape. And all she ever asked of them was for them to go to church. She was always lies to me. Br on up. She's never yelled at me. She's never really told me. No there would be times. That i would go to work with mom and i were just paying out at friday's all day. Long woman mom was working. You know i would just hang out feed the horses in baths brush james. What early like grandma to build up paint similar portrait of fredrika. She told us about the pastoral surroundings over. Grandmother's fine w farms and her family's legacy in the area you go to their house. You go eight miles out of cincinnati east on thirty three. And i'm telling you you were in that hills the appellation ohio at this. Then all of a sudden you'll see something to the right. It looks like a real nice entry. Way splenectomy forms on and you look. We see a trailer sitting right next to the entrance and nice insurance with wrought iron gates. It's got foreign. Then you look away up. You see all these little houses. Some of them were categories. And then she's got the pig house and then she's got the old walking horse barn and she's got the shop the new come to her her colonial style home and it's very homey feeling when you walk into the home you feel like going home and i see all my grandmother's catholic little statues around in pictures of the kids on the horse theories pictures of all their famous horses. She developed a breed of horse called the georgian guerande that she named after my uncle which he takes no credit for the horses is what the driving passion was for fredericton. Boggled to be together. Stay together work together. Because that's the problem. I think with with people who get married today pay so it's natural to want have relationships it's national. They wanna have kids. When you're young all those hormones in your head to keep you together gotta have salad salad and corn that you have to work with together to keep your family meeting them legacy and that's what rica wagner. Did kit hurry. Baugh developed a breed horse over years. They have a two thousand acre farm. They had three kids and they left them legacy. We're not talking about people who are trained murders. We're talking about real people. Who had real honest to goodness god-fearing lives frederica. Wagner's attorney described her as a god fearing woman who taught sunday school for nearly half a century and lived about as close to the cross as anyone can we all struggled with this contradiction in frederico wagner. How could this sweet grandmother. Who was charitable and kind be involved in any capacity with the murder of eight people so we decided to look a little deeper into pike's most giving resident and what we found was not all virtuous. Jody barfield send after the world became familiar with the wagner family. You know of course. Reporters start digging into their backgrounds. And it's just some of the things that come out you learn about the business dealings and you know what frederica is accused of doing pass. This is good background information to have when you're trying to understand who these people are. But i have to say when. I was only granted. Pike county ohio. When i was hearing their names when i went by flag w far it is a peaceful quaint farm tucked into the rolling hills of eastern ohio. When you drive by there nothing on the surface points to anything. That's been alleged now that any of the people involved in any of this could've been involved in the killing of eight people s the beauty of action against is that you just don't know the whole story until you know the whole story. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment after all that planning it's happening. 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Geico fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percents or more. Let's start with w farms. The farm breeds horses as well. As dogs and pigs typically found in new zealand in the nineteen nineties. Frederica got into legal trouble with a group of customers surrounding the sale of these picks. Here's my gallon again. She was sued by a group of customers. I guess the allegation was that her place. I think it was the flying. W. it didn't meet the standards promise for the sale of exotic animals which is interesting I guess the group said that she defrauded them in the sales they gave them some animals. That didn't match the advertise description. Dana rodin's friend. Becky told jeff that flying w. farms had been whispered about and piked in for years. I one point time. You're fredrika was a person speak feared in the county is. There was always rumors jacket while all the rooms was everybody's like oh you don't wanna get back. Their bad things happen to people that go back here so you i wait for my area back. Where because form. I've always heard things about it. So yeah somewhere. I would never go. Piped-in local barbara told jeff about one rumor in particular day made their money in horses and miniature horses and there's some shady dealings that i've heard about their like them stuffing the horses with drugs and send them back and forth to mexico. And you know just awful things like that now. We obviously can't prove that but it's worth mentioning it's this type of thing that people in piped in like to whisper about one thing we should talk about is this quote unquote life changing rent to own operation. Frederico wagner designed to help lower income residents over the decades frederico wagner entered into at least one hundred thirty two land installment contracts and these contracts basically allowed the wagner's to retain deeds on land as buyers attempted to pay off the principal and the interest. The idea was that if the buyers made all of their payments they'd eventually become landowners but it rarely played out that way in fact as it turns out only twelve of those contracts were actually satisfied twelve out of one hundred and thirty two and looking into all of the deals nearly eighty percent of them are ultimately terminated without a corresponding di transfer and that basically indicates despite somebody making payments at the end of the day the lan stayed in frederico wagner's possession there are countless examples of sour deals. Just like that where people really did feel that frederico wagner took advantage of them and again does that mean that she was involved with a mass murder. Of course not but it does point to character which i do think is valuable. Yeah there was one tenant quoted in the story saying that frederica had raised her run by twenty five percent following the murders and twenty sixteen and another described his rental property as a one room home with an expose toilet standing just a few feet from the foot of his bed again. This doesn't prove their guilt but it does speak to the type of woman. Frederica was or at least how the public perceived her at the time. I spoke to attorney. Mike gallon about fred. Rica's land deal contracts. When i was in piped-in i spoke to some people in these are Just personal accounts but saying you know my family rented land and he ended it for years and years and years and then had it pulled out which i mean the court seems to back that up but yeah land contracts are tough and you know for the person who is you. Know not the The owner of the property but the person trying to buy it there are a lot of pitfalls with it and someone smart Which barely frederica was. They can take advantage of people in a land contract situation. Frederica also runs a nonprofit called crystal springs a group home that provides housing and rehabilitation services to developmentally disabled adults. And according to some when her son. Billy married angela. Nukem who we now know as angela wagner. Frederica wasn't happy about it christina. How're told us. The relationship between frederico wagner and her daughter-in-law always seemed contentious. She never really had much to do with angela unless they come to billy and grown up by her friday call angela. Evil woman tomor to like a nasty woman one time. Angela tried to keep friday from saint her grandkids georgia and jake because they were talking about moving away and all this and i never heard freddie say that she hated anybody but she said like oh really disliked this woman. She's just a nasty woman. Perhaps frederico wagner has reason to be suspicious of angela. Christina howard gave stephanie thoughts on angela. Wagner angela today was shady for sog tour. Like you feel like there's more to were the and stuff like on the outside. She's all happy talks with anybody and everything else but he just get a five farmer More to it turns out that the seemingly devoted hardworking mother had a bit of a checkered past in two thousand and one angela wagner along with billy wagner were charged with improperly handling a firearm and in two thousand twelve they are both charged with receiving stolen property which is a fifth degree felony. Jody becker put the wagner families. Criminal history into context for us. You're looking at improperly handling a firearm charges when you look at those two charges in even the details that were reported to support there's charges. I'm back to where. I was in the rest of the wagons background when you look at this as a whole across the course of their lives the charges of improperly handling a firearm. I mean there's charges came fifteen years before these murders. It was alleged road rage. You know there was a gun pulled out but the charges are dismissed. No one got hurt. I mean that is something that i see multiple times a week. A leisure police reports the charge of receiving stolen property came four years before these murders. When you look at the criminal record. Nothing in this says to me. You've got murderers in the hills of pike county ohio. This could be your neighbor next door with these charges here again is frederica sneezed array reading a news article about her aunt's involvement in the road and murders. So but let me summarize it for you on november thirteenth. Two thousand and eight. In the ohio governor elect my d- wine held and internationally broadcast news conference and announced the arrest of for rica wagner and several of her family members. Governor dewine accused frederick. His family members of the rodents homesites and he specifically accused rica masterminding the cover rock. When i heard that i wanted to call him up and tell him that there was no way and that someday you will have to apologize to my aunt. I do not know who came up with that theory and tried to put it out there. That is someone with an evil mind. I think that that it's that that it's the devil tran- trying to test us because there's no way possible that fredrika could something like ever. She is not that kind of person. She carries the light of jesus with her everywhere she goes. And i am i am. I am convicted on that. There's no way she would have ever done something like that. Ever the idea that the entire wagner family allegedly conspired to kill the rodin's cold blood still baffles. Jody bar to this day nothing. That is the common theme of this entire story about pike county about this road. Massacre is missing. Just too far fetched. Now when you try to connect the dots to the histories of how. The wagner's conducted their business. How they live their lives. I don't know that. I have seen any reporting any fact brought out about the wagner's that would say yep there you go mass murderers i think that is the draw that continues to to keep people interested in. This story is that you would have never seen any of this comics. I don't know what a fairly capable of a mass murderer would look like or how they would conduct your business but this was out of nowhere still just hard to believe. On june twenty six twenty nineteen frederico wagner headed into pike county courtroom for a pre trial hearing with frederica sitting in the defendant's chair. There was a stunning courtroom revelation. Charges against the grandfather connected to the road and family massacre have been dismissed. It was just missed because i was innocent. They had no evidence against me while grammar. the frederico might be out of the woods. The rest of her family await their day in court where he stunning number of truths promised to be exposed. Its search for the crude. I believe that is it applies to this case. The mystery will be solved. The truth all eventually be discovered ano- struggling to keep custody of suburbia. A straight up told her essay present. You with papers did not sign them because they you've got to wonder who is this appointment because if it's a member of the wagner family. I think that's a twist. No one saw common more on that next week. Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions where instagram facebook and twitter at piped-in massacre. We look forward to answering your questions in upcoming bonus episodes pectin massacres executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker. The pike massacre is a production of iheartradio and kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. 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Episode 6- The Investigation
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Welcome to the pike and massacre a production of iheartradio and katie studios. It's been one year. Since eight members of the rodent family were found murdered in pike county now surviving members of the family released of leave for information a year after eight members of the royal family were ruthlessly gunned down in their homes. Ohio authorities are on a relentless search for the killers. Eight hundred tips have been called it to police commitment to the people of by counting fat day. For not leaving until we solve the many different facets of law enforcement collaborated to crack the case. The people that carried it out. Were trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. Law enforcement officials began tracking down a series of leads that point them to another group of potential suspects. The wagner's the wagon shop and local walmart's regulation magazine cliff and materials to build brass catcher. According to the case indictment the wagner's began conducting. What seems to be almost like reconnaissance on the rodin's you mean a camera with their with connected. Something still to this day wonder why she mentioned that. And why that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further to revelations lead those closest to the family questioning their innocence. He was upset that because she had been murdered or what he had said he done it. This is the pike massacre episode six the investigation in this episode. We're going to dive into law enforcement's investigation into the road and murders how the wagner's allegedly pulled off this gruesome massacre. And why. I'm courtney armstrong and i work at kt studios with stephanie. Lie decker and jeff shame. We produced a documentary about the case for nbc universals oxygen network and twenty nineteen and have been following the evolution of the investigation since then to understand the crime and the possible motivation of the family. That may have committed it. We want to look at the months. Leading up to the murders authorities movements after by any objective standard was a long arduous investigation. Spending two full years during that time many different facets of law enforcement the fbi the da. The pike county sheriff's office and the ohio bureau of criminal investigation all collaborated to crack the case. Please received over eleven hundred tips. They conducted over five hundred interviews tested about seven hundred pieces of evidence Serve close to two hundred search orange subpoenas and other things so this was something that was huge. That's my gallon. A defense attorney former ohio county prosecutor and legal analyst for cincinnati news station fox nineteen the attorney general to wine at the time said it was a pretty sophisticated operation in the people that that carried it out. Were trying to do everything they could to make sure that they didn't get caught. Attorney general dewine and sheriff reader. They both said that the investigation was going to be a long process and boy sure has played out that way. But how exactly did investigators circle in. On the wagner's the suspects and eventually compile enough evidence to make arrests in previous episodes. We discussed some of the conflicts between the wagner's and the rodin's in twenty sixteen. There was a custody battle between jake wagner and hannah roden and a physical altercation between billy wagner and chris and senior it seemed like the relationship between the two families was reaching a fever pitch in the months leading up to the murders but these two families didn't always have such ill will towards one another. Here's journalist jeff winkler early on People wanted to paint the feud between the roads and wagner's as something like Hatfield mccoys excuse. It was sort of hills of appalachia backwoods and thing but it really wasn't like that right like people like to say the hatfields and mccoys. But i think they were probably closer and friendlier than that version of it right. Yeah i mean the fact. They were split. Time between the two houses The fact that the actress in the area for a long time as well just as the romans had they just you had to families who were Intertwined by both blood and work. We got some more intimate. Observations from d'auray she's billy wagner colin and frederica wagner's niece d'auray spoke to jeff about how she saw the relationship between her family and the rodents. Do you know anything about billy. And chris wrote and senior. I ant said that they were very good friends and of course he was the grandfather of sofia. And so was billy billy. sophia's grandfather. I mean it's like their inlaws. The related i mean there two grandfathers at the same little girl. She's adorable angela dana. I got along in the same way. It looked to me like they were clearly ding along and she never said anything. Bad about the rodents never spoke one negative thing about just about the children about. They went fishing. And they're over at frederick and you know small talk for normal talk you have with another mom about raising kits right exactly and it's just like that's all it is is just family talk. We of course know that. Hannah and jack wagner had an intense relationship but through the ups and downs most would say they were in love and their relationship brought the two families together. Here's producers stephanie. When we started doing our research. I personally became a bit obsessed with better understanding the intersection between these two families and really struggle with the motivation. What could possibly cause one family. The wagner's to allegedly murder eight people that they knew so well. They knew them intimately. In fact. we came across a photograph taken in two thousand twelve at george wagner the eldest son's wedding and the rodents and the wagner's are both in this photo seemingly so happy the only person not there is dana wrote in and she said to maybe be taking the photo because she later posted on her myspace page. But it's mind blowing. The people in the photo do not look like killers. Posting with there would be victims but sharp enough in four years. The majority of the people in this picture would be dead and the others would be standing trial for their deaths throughout the series. We've been talking to a relative of the wagner's who's chosen to remain anonymous. She spoke to jeff about her family's reaction in the wake of the road murders. What was the feeling like in the family after dot happened all an upset because it was the mother of her granddaughter. She was just really sad. You know that. That had happened. And i talked to jake tell like i'm so sorry you know like if anything i can do. Please tell me angela. She did ask me At one point probably about a month after The murders having. If i come down and pick up the and jake and takes afia to a friend's house and i did and in that time we need j. humor in the car and he was an absolute wreck and of course i did not. I didn't know how to react. I didn't know what asked him. I didn't know what to say. i was kind of. Just let him have his moment and he was absolutely devastated. I mean he couldn't talk. He couldn't breathe. He was having someone attacking my car. And i'm like oh my gosh you know. I don't know what to say. Fill course when. I find out that they were wants to done this I keep thinking back that you know in the car. And i'm like oh my gosh like i know he was upset but was he upset for You know the right. Was he that. Because she had been been murdered or what he had done it and he knew. I don't know it was just an awful eerie. Feeling it really truly was county massacre. It's the title of what has happened out here. The tragedy that we've been covering the victims ranged in age from sixteen to forty four. Each were shot anywhere from once to nine times which is off brislin relation. Let's ruin to summer two thousand fourteen hannah daughter. Sophia is eight months old. Here's producer stephanie. This is why this case is so complicated. Because just when i think the wagner's could be innocent. I read something like this around this time. According to the case indictment the wagner's began conducting with seems to almost be like reconnaissance on the road and family over the course of the next two years. They allegedly began hacking into the rodents personal computers. Their phones even their social media accounts. The even reportedly used surveillance cameras to spy on the roads. But why would they do that. Especially according to most accounts. Jake and hannah were very much still dating and very much in love at this time. So why would they be. Spying was angela wagner the mom obsessed with her youngest son. Jake wagner's relationship with hannah. Roden where the dad's. Chris rhoden or wagner senior embroiled in something big were the wagner's simply trying to get familiar with the family patterns in better understand the road in property. Why would they possibly be spying. Here's investigative reporter jodi bar. He's talking about a conversation. He had with kendra roden the daughter of one of the victims. Kenneth roden ginger eroding brought up with me in discussions. She mentioned a few times. Were camera setup. Around chris is home while kendra road and actually saw cameras on the property. That now it seems as if allegedly the wagner's had put their. She told me that christian years home that there was a camera on that property. Is you said it was in sort of not in the wooded area but the field like it hadn't been mode but it was right near the garage christine yourself and of course naturally you start questioning her about the cameras and we mean a camera with their. who was. It connected something did you look. Did you try to investigate. The very strange encounter in when she mentioned that and then the conversation window further the was probably scared right. possibly i mean but she's talking to a reporter. That was always something that i've wondered about because you'd never got an answer to and it was so strange and i still to this day. Wonder why she mentioned that. And why that conversation wasn't allowed to go any further. Yeah but i find so like the most screwed up thing about it is at that time the summer twenty fourteen is when jake wagner and hannah wrote and we're like hot and heavy and planning a wedding and to know that he was also sort of maybe planning her murder at the same time starting to at least spy on her in some way is like just very dark. I mean there's a lot of interest obviously still in this case and you know with every criminal prosecution state. They have their version of facts. Defense will have its version of facts but if this turns out to be true man what a story would've terribly tragic ending to these live to everything that was going on if we are to believe the prosecution has alleged it. This paints a very dark picture. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accepted. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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I'm reese jones designed human scale with a leading maker of economic office chairs and the problem with most chaz. Is you have to conform to them. That's why a human scale. We developed a new kind of chat with a built in mechanism. that automatically adjusts to your body. Let you work comfortably. Elevate your work from home. Set up with a human scale chat for a limited time. You can use the code word home hato m. e. to save twenty percent on all about jazz at human scale dot com shipping is free and you can try it for thirty days if you don't love it send it back to us and we'll pay for ten so remember human scale dot com code word home to save twenty percent human scale making work even from home more comfortable. It seems that the wagner's became obsessed with getting sole custody of sofia. Jake and hannah broke up. But how exactly do they think they would gain control as laid out in the indictment. The wagner's began methodically. Plotting a scheme. That would take several months to actually carry out here again. Is jody bar. So when you read these indictments talking about the wagons movements even before these murders happened and the investigators believed that they were planning this for quite some time before that. The indictment says that detectives believe that planning began january. One twenty sixteen murders happened april of twenty sixteen so you got four months of planning. That's alleged to have happened here. Four months the plan the south. I mean if that's every day for four months that's a full time job so what exactly went into the planning. In previous episodes we talked about how in april twenty sixteen the wagner's presented hannah roden with custody documents. But what hand didn't know then. And what police. Later uncovered is at the supposedly legal documents. Fake and that angela. wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem was allegedly at the center of the deception. I spoke to my gallon about it. So rita joe nukem angela's mom. She faces three counts of forgery account of perjury. And she's a notary. Can you speak to what power does a notary have or. How does that come into play in ohio. Notaries don't have a lot of power they are allowed obviously notarized signatures You know they have to make sure that. The oath is administered properly when they are notarize rising something. They're kind of hard to come by here in ohio. But i'm certain that because of this so probably lose that notaries license. If she hasn't already moving forward a bit in time prosecutors ultimately claimed that rita lied about the authenticity of these documents. To a grand jury. But in an unexpected twist nukem agreed to a plea deal with the prosecution. She pled guilty to a misdemeanor. Charge of obstructing official business in exchange felony charges of forgery and perjury were dismissed. Here's nukem speaking in court a good credit thing and more. It's difficult to hear her because of the recording but she says i just feel that it's not a good christian thing to lie and i couldn't live with it. No more jodi by there could be alterior motives to nukem steal. The prosecutor said in court. Though that i had ready expert concluded that rita nukem did not sign the documents or sell nukem admitted to falsely telling a grand jury and investigators that she did so only because her daughter angela wagner who was among those charged with the killings told her to do so. I mean there were some heavy charges dismissed. Were investigators trying to squeeze the grandmothers to get some information outta them. Mike allen seems to think so now there's a lot speculation and in the normal case the first thing you'd think of as okay. They gave her a reduced charge in return for cooperation. And i i would not be surprised. That's not the case but again we won't know until we get closer to trial. Can you be compelled to testify for the prosecution. Sure i mean they receive a subpoena. Unless there's some kind of legal reason why they couldn't Yeah i mean. The prosecutor could issue the subpoena. If there's testimony that prosecutor would probably asked the court designate. That person a hostile witness and then they can use leading questions according to court records. The documents appointed a guardian for jason. Hannah's daughter in the event of their deaths when police later searched the wagner. This document was found in a box. Belonging to angela wagner at labeled important stuff. I asked my gallon about the legal ramifications of these forged documents. How does it appear that. These documents were forged on april third. One thousand nine days before the murders. I tell you what. I've been doing this for a long time and i've never seen anything like this. It's strong evidence for the prosecutor Defense attorney has to find a way to explain that away which is probably next to impossible but yeah it. It's that strong evidence from the prosecutors perspective as we've discussed before it was around this time that chris rudin senior and billy wagner got into a fight as well. Here's my gallon recapping that confrontation mid april two thousand sixteen supposedly there was a fight between senior and wagner. Nobody seems to know what the fight was about or what caused. Things are obviously becoming strained between the two families but the beginning of also brought a lot of joy for the rodent family that month. Hannah celebrated her nineteenth birthday. Here's rodent family friend steph. Ham is a happy occasion. You know family together and lots and fallen because they were fine. They're always having get togethers birthday parties. Anything like that. They were a great family unit but as the rodent family was celebrating. The wagner's allegedly. Were busy planning their murders. The wagner's already had a cache of firearms but around this time they began making their own silencers. If the wagner's did do it. It seems likely that these would have been used on the night of the murders. The family also bought ammunition magazine clip a bug detector and materials to build brass catchers. Jody failed to san on. What some of this equipment is used for is a bag on the side of a firearm. It will catch spent cartridges so every time you pull the trigger a cartridges dejected and If you were really interested in not leaving anything behind as far as ballistic evidence to sound like a great story this bag will collect showcasing. So there's evidence left behind the bug detector. the purely that helps someone listening devices. Sometimes create white noise moisture muffled sounds or discussion. The indictment includes a reference to a specific pair of shoes that the family purchased from walmart. But why would they need a particular pair of shoes to pull off a murderer. Here's stephanie one. Such theory is that the wagner's were trying to frame data rodin's brother james manley. He significant because if you recall dana wrote in sister. Bobbie jo made the first discovery of bodies and called nine one one. She also called her brother. Who rushed to dana rodin's house and also found their bodies. His prints were allegedly at the crime scene. However just one day before the murders. The wagons drove two and a half hours to a specific walmart to buy a particular pair of boots. They're seen on surveillance buying these boots in other same kind of boots known to be worn by james manley. Why would they do that. Here's reporter jodi bar diamond. I mean there's a lot of assertion by the prosecution. They have evidence that these boots were purchased to fray james manley a family member for the murder of james live. The closest to dana in the chain ended up being one of the first to discover dana in hanover bodies. That morning of the idea is that they went and bought these specific boots knowing the james malay wore them and then they would in theory wear them the night of the murder so it looks to police like he was the one walking around and it sounds like four period of time. Investigators night of believed that to be the case. Because james manley was one of the first people brought in and interrogated given a polygraph. I mean if you're to believe what's written in that indictment now like you may have been pretty close this all on it was so detail oriented. Yeah and you wonder this too. It's like it seemed like a lot of detailed planning to preplanned that. I don't really know what to think of it again. I don't know anybody who's capable of doing that. And we know it happened. It was pulled off by somebody. But i mean if they really bought boots to try to frame james manley may and again. This is a heck of story drew up who thinks april twenty sixteen the same week. Hannah's birthday her mother. Dana threw a baby shower to celebrate the upcoming birth of her new baby girl kylie it would be the last time the road and family all gathered in one place. Becky rider was a close friend of dana rodin's. She told jeff about the excitement surrounding the baby's arrival. Nfl overwhelm joy. Marvelous rushes getting another grandbaby as she can love and spoil. She always loved her grandkids. Yeah easily yeah and like hannah must have been happy to because she was she had a new boyfriend at that point who was jack wagner and she was about to have a new baby and kind of start a new chapter of her life right. Oh absolutely yeah and photos from this event. Hannah smiles with her daughter. Sophia we also see other family members in the photo including frankie and his fiancee. Hannah gilly in just a few days. Eight members of the road and family would be dead. But to raise recollection the events leading up to the birth of kylie is different. She says at that point that things were still going well between jake and hannah. I believe they may have disagreements. And i think there was disappointment. But i don't think the resenting any hate we've discussed in previous episodes how the people of patan were immediately affected by the murderers and the shroud of fear that hovered over the small town. Don't understand why happened here. Really wondering thing like the mafia or anything like that because it just crazy and find live down there. I wouldn't stay there. I would be so afraid. But in the wake of the murders many news outlets portray jake wagner as almost a sympathetic figure this is how the cincinnati enquirer described him in july thousand sixteen article a fulltime single dad with mounting legal bills with a new job. That pays half of what he was making to ensure he is close to sofia but close still means. The twenty-three-year-old makes daily commute to cincinnati. A two and a half hour daily drive anybody who's connected to this family. There was a lot of emotion from the public. If of these children. No surprise at jake. A lot of people felt for jay here with a very young daughter. And he's fighting to get her back but it's what the family did in the wake of the murders that raise some suspicion. We know that just six days after the rodents were killed. Jake wagner filed for custody of two half year old sophia his daughter with hannah rudin previous episode. We talked to ohio criminal. Defense attorney mike allen about how this looks from a legal perspective extremely strong evidence for the prosecution. I mean six as less than a week after the killings to go ahead and file it can take months You know maybe a year a little bit more a little bit less. It's not something that goes quickly at all and i think that That is going to be some evidence. That's problematic for the defense doing it that quickly after the murders. It was around the same time that angela wagner suggested. Her son create a gofundme campaign to help cover the custody expenses to the tune of twenty thousand dollars. Jake wrote a personal message on the page saying these were not expensive. I was supposed to have. I was just supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her a happy childhood. Sophia and i are just asking enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her. Mommy he finished. I hate seeing my daughter cry. We want to get our lives back but these legal action seemed unusual too many in the community he is investigative reporter. Jodi bar remember seeing that in the roden massacre facebook group talking about that. And just you know they were. There was a lot of angry comments about it. That a lot of people in those groups have already poo vicar. the workers. They already believe they did it. And guilty and so to see that and and how vocal the wagner's were on social media. It seemed to rubble people in that group. The wrong way that. That was the wrong message. they believe the wagner should have been sending that point in time but you know a lot of people showing that the brazen this of people wrapped up in this to make a move like that to ask for help. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. You're time for real summer. Fun is here so ditched the boredom and hit up your local mini dealer because the many summer of driving then is happening. Now get a new mini cooper. Hardtop two door starting to twenty nine per month for thirty six month. Low mileage lease with two thousand nine hundred ninety nine due at signing visit many usa dot com slash east for details. That's many usa dot com slash east. And see what. It's like to drive something this fun. At the summer of dr event with many to show you how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera star. Gracious me. my car has storm damage to file a claim go to possibly kept worse when my claims team. Leave me for someone else someone intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team. Who promises to stay with you throughout the process. I've never known that loyalty. I can't wait for the second fever. Geigo great service without all the drama in may twenty seventeen with the investigation. Full swing officials searched the farm of a peyton resident named bernard brown. Mike allen phil. Descend on why police may have been interested in. The property agents searched his farm. I guess he's a friend of the wagner's new them for a long time. I guess they they fix cars together a lot of cars on the lot. I guess jake stored some cars and some other things on the property. And i tell you what cars and vehicles and equipment are all over these farms that That have been searched. So i mean maybe something could have been hidden somewhere Somebody must have given law enforcement a tip that there could possibly be something there or they wouldn't have searched bernard brown was not charged with anything. Authorities searched to large trailers and took one smaller utility trailer owned by the wagner's from his property. According to brown jake wagner sometimes worked for him fixing cars brown said that the wagner's had dropped items off at the property a week prior to the search. It was clear that investigators were becoming more interested in the wagner's by the spring twenty seventeen. The family had been interviewed. Several times bay thirties. It should be noted that jacob angelo were interviewed five times billy. Three times and once d'auray spoke to jeff about a conversation she had with angelo wagner as police narrowed in on her family. One day she she goes. I can't believe that they just won't leave us alone. They just will not be by the loan she goes. It's terrible. She were starting to get really worried that we're gonna be arrested. They felt that coming because they they wouldn't leave everybody alone. Rumors of the wagner's potential involvement in the road massacre quickly spread and soon they were being targeted not only by police but by pike county residents as well. Everybody had parted basically attacking then community Accusing them of murdering those people like if they were in town and people identified their vehicle. They would throw balls at them. Angela had actually into store one day and some woman had actually pulled up behind angela. She was coming back out of the store and through a glass bottle after and it busted her in the back in may twenty seventeen community continued to turn against them. Angela wagner took to social media to publicly declare her family's innocence. Here's jeff reading from her post okay. I have decided to tell you all a couple of things about me and my family. What has happened to us in the past few weeks has been devastating and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. Her loss still hurts to this day. Especially when i see her every day in my granddaughter. We did not do anything to hurt. Hannah's family we want justice just like everyone else. It is real disturbing. If you really wanna know you guys are doing. Your accusations. Now will hurt so feel later in life when she really understands what happened. Let's try to find the real monsters. Who done this. So let's unpack this for a moment. Because if angela wagner is in fact a martyr and had been targeted by the town. I mean having a bottle thrown out you. If you did not commit these crimes would be hideous especially the town that you love so much. Angela and her husband lived there for generations. That had to be really difficult however if they did it and they just went about their lives speaking to the press openly photo. I know i've said this before. She looks like a mom but then she's also grimacing in her mugshot and even during her pretrial hearings. There's something sort of smug about the way she presents herself. It also makes me wonder. Could she possibly be at the center of this facing violent backlash from locals and increasing attention from authorities. The wagner's did something that left. Everyone piped-in stunned. Here's f winkler again. Their lawyer had said that they were be primary suspects and so around that time may twenty seventeen that the whole family emptied out a few cargo facilities. They had some sheds one odds Loaded up and then up and moved to alaska when they left for alaska. I was like. Oh wow air running. And then i thought they'll get away with it. I'm the one that told him. Go to alaska. The state of ohio cannot afford extradite. You from alaska back home. But the wagner's relocation didn't hinder the investigation investigators rated three properties in adams and pike counties in the middle of may we had previously reported. Those properties are connected to the wagner family. Now investigators say they believe. The family recently moved to alaska. Investigators want any information. The public has about the family. they moved to alaska. The very following law enforcement actually finally searches the properties. Where the wagner's list that started to tighten the news in terms of the wagner more on that next time reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions where on instagram facebook and twitter at pike massacre. We look forward to answering questions and upcoming bonus episodes pectin massacres executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker. The piped-in massacre is a production of i heart radio and kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows love can make stupid so think smart about her dream diamond before take the plunge visit moves. Diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds. Fair prices moves. Diamond is the region's first choice. At mervyn's you'll receive a free education occasion and no pressure to buy and with a leading. Designer rings from tacoma and verragio. You'll know why us was honored by washington post as best place to buy a diamond. Check our reviews at movers. Diamond dot com again. That's movers diamond. Dot com the greatest diamonds in the world. Found at movies before you pop the question visit. Movers diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds. At fair prices move. 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Episode 3- Wagner vs. Wagner
"It's all about getting the most out of summer and with certified refurbished from ebay. You can enjoy one hundred percent of summer with up to fifty percent savings on top brands. Plus a fifteen percent off coupon through memorial day so tackle your to do list and break out the playlist. Life new products from the brands. You love we're talking goes works. I robot and more all at up to fifty percent savings now through memorial day. Get an extra fifteen percents off coupon to save even more with certified refurbished shop memorial day savings at ebay today. I'm dr lori enters. I'm a psychology professor at yale. And i started to notice that a lot of my students weren't all that happy so i created a new class longtime everybody to psychology and the good life. But it's not just my student who need to understand the science of well being and that's why we launched the happens lab so you can learn about two. Are you ready to feel happier. Head to the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or if you like to listen brought to you by discover- discover something writer. Welcome to the pike and massacre production of iheartradio and katie studios. I gotta tell you from kind of a visceral standpoint when he heard the news that this kid had rolled over on this case one thing. That kind of came to mind from me is kind of envisioned. His mother in a almost a a mob barker kind of way that she's kind of the puppet master that's controlling everything you sitting there all along and suddenly he has this lucid moment where he's out from under the thaw and he realizes i'm going to get the needle for all of this. This is the pectin massacre return to pike county season two episode three wagner versus wagner and knee armstrong a television producer at katy studios with stephanie. Lydecker and jeff shane on april twenty. Second twenty twenty one. Jake wagner pleaded guilty to eight aggravated murder charges in the rodent family massacre as part of his plea deal he implicated his mother angela wagner father billy wagner and brother george wagner as co-conspirators in the killings also agreeing to testify against his parents and brother were also charged in these murders. Here's reporter and net levy. I don't believe anybody knew he was going to do this. So it's it's a pretty stunning development to see. Jake widener the youngest of the entire family. Who would you would think would be. you know. Maybe the most pliable in some respects because he is the youngest but to see him just break away from his family. I don't know it's pretty interesting. The significance of jake wagner folding on his family cannot be overstated but what does it mean. Moving forward in criminal defense attorney. Mike allen told stephanie that could signal an impending legal chess match in terms of jake wagner's admission of guilt. I'm just curious about what that means. Altogether he's confessed to killing five of the eight rodents personally. Is he trying to save himself or trying to save his family. you know. obviously you know if he did five out of eight you still have three left and you know it'll come out who who actually did the killing on those other three but was probably a strategic move on the prosecutors part not to let that out yet and you know prosecutors not gonna show his cards or in this case she and when she's got three other defendants to try so they're still going to hold it close to the vast. I think stephanie asked reporter james pilcher if they were still moves left for jake to play. Is it possible that he'll say that jake could say. I was in a very controlling environment. My mother angela wagner controlled us. My father was a bully and said i had to do these things and we were coerced into it. Is there any value in that. Even i mean that's entirely possible and some of the reporting. That's what we've heard cow. The other thing i will say is that the they're going after bigger game than jake and they figured we'll cut this deal now. He'll give us what we want. And then we can go get the mom and the dad but clearly they were going after the people who plotted this was not jake's idea rate or at least not according to the prosecutors. This was the family coming together. That's what the prosecutors are. After is that okay. We get jake the help us. We get jake to plead out. It shows that this really did happen now. We can go after the people who actually landed on april twenty eighth just six days after jake. Wagner's hearing his accused brother. George wagner walked into the pike county courthouse first court. Hearing since last week's surprise plea deal in the pike county murder. Trials took place today. This hearing for george wagner was supposed to center on a few defensive oceans involving discovery evidence and net levy was on the scene that day. She spoke to producer chris graves. Kikinda described the mood and what was going on. The mood was a lot lighter than it had been in the past the rodent family. The little bit. That i saw that and they just seemed happy for the first time in a long time and i think i saw hannah kelly's mother and she actually seemed happy. They can start to finally look so it was just a a much lighter mood. But you know george the fourth. Obviously it wasn't later made for him. He looked very stressed to look very thin. He doesn't look you can see it on. Its face in the aftermath of jake. Wagner's shocking confession. Many wondered how accused older brother. George wagner's hearing would play out. We spoke at length about george in the last two episodes. It was at his wedding that the last known picture of the roden and wagner families was taken also george and his ex wife dealt with eerily similar custody issues. that would foreshadow. What would happen between victim. Hannah roden and jeff wagner his lawyer. Rick nash has been very assertive and maintain that george the fourth there was no case against him. There was no evidence against him but now he's kind of having to swallow his pride a little bit. I think and realize that there may be some really good evidence tying his client to this and ocean hearing was per like all these boilerplate death penalty missions. Death penalty is off the table. Now people following the case wondered would george wagner strike. A plea deal as well. My opinion of george. The fourth is that he's kind of is the weakest link in his family because he's got the most to lose. He has a son who he loves dearly and he wants to be with his son and so i was wondering what storage going to do instead of a guilty plea. The court heard something far less dramatic in five minutes for george do the fourth to ask for more time to evaluate the situation. No judge. I don't think so. I think everybody agreed. That given recent events aggravate needs to step back and reassess. The hearing concluded with an agreement to reschedule the motion for june twenty first. Twenty twenty one. Though there were no bombshell developments. It's clear that the next few weeks will be pivotal. George wagner and has accused parents angela and billy wagner must now decide how they will proceed. Do you think that it's possible. That now that jake took the plea deal and admitted to the murders that we may see billy angela and or george doing the same thing. I think it's possible that the others could plead out but at the same time what's the point. And they have nothing to lose by going to trial because they either plead get life in prison or they rolled the dice and go to trial. Maybe they can hang jury as my gallon points out. There's no one case. That assures a conviction. Is there any version of this. Where one of them is found guilty and the other are found innocent. I it's possible. Yeah i mean it it just it all depends on what the individual juries wanna wanna do. Yeah i mean that's very possible and it's happened on trials that whether to defendants that have been severed where is found guilty and the other one is not. You know different. Juries are different. And it'll be a different jury for every one of these trials and you lawyers will tell you Especially criminal lawyers. You never know what is going to happen with the jury. And i've been at this for forty years and juries are becoming even more unpredictable. I don't know why but they are but an answer to your question. Yeah that's a possibility. Last episode we heard bureau of criminal investigation agent ryan scheider testify about the wagner's family dynamic. We're very close live together. They've always lived together. Their finances are intermingled. They home school together. They raise their kids together. Everything is done together as well as we have an informant. Who says every decision within that family is made a family decision without any of the other. Wagner's coming forward with plea deals. There are still a lot of questions that need to be answered about the family that is alleged to have carried out. Ohio's most notorious crime. It's worth noting that while jake wagner pleaded guilty angela billy and george wagner have pleaded not guilty. The state is kind of maintained that each person in this conspiracy had their earn role. They had their own kind of part to play. And you know it's going to be interesting to see how strong the evidence is to support their assertion that each person had a role in this conspiracy. At this point one thing is clear jake wagner holds the fate of his family and his hands and the united front the wagner family has built is beginning to erode how it will all unfold is anyone's guess. We don't know exactly what jake said. And how he said we just know that he confessed and led them to evidence. So they're still a lot we don't know based on what the prosecution outlined in court so let's take a look at the evidence we know about based on what we've heard through preliminary hearings over the past three years. One of the most informative was a hearing for accused. Brother george wagner that took place on august thirty first twenty twenty that day georgia's attorneys requested that he be allowed to post bail arguing that there was no evidence to tie him to the case and net levy was at the pike county courthouse. That day. it was actually a fool's errand because in the state of ohio someone charged with aggravated murder. In which the death penalty aside can be held without bail automatically. There's really no question about it. So they were kind of wanting to. I think get some more information about the evidence in the case and the bci agent on the case elite agent ryan scheider took the stand and answered a series of questions about the evidence in the case that they have against george burns. See that special agent ryan scheider of the bureau of criminal investigation taking his oath in court during the hearing. George wagner's attorney tried to distance his client from the crime and his accuse family his attorney headset. Something to the effect of the evidence. You know if it tied anybody to us. It was jake and angela. Not george what texts were digital communications. Find to or from him. You think is relevant specifically about text messages with george. I don't remember any. Did you collect the cell phone from george. I don't believe we ever collected georgia. Where connection does george has to do with that laptop. The device was registered to jake specifically. Angela seemed to be the primary user of that but there was some evidence that implicated george wagner along with his brother. Jake and the crimes one of the most striking parts of agent schneider's testimony had to do with the type of guns used in homicides reno the three calibers of firearms were used these murders and they were a twenty two caliber. Long rifle and thirty caliber. Cider went on to make direct correlation between the twenty two caliber shell casings found at victims dana. Roden and frankie rodents homes and the property owned by the wagner family. Here's agent scheider. Being questioned by prosecutor. Angie canepa we recovered twenty two caliber shell casings and where we recovered. Those at two sixty peterson road. Which was property that was owned by george wacker and his brother jake. Aided were those showcasing submitted to the lab for comparison to shop that have been recovered from both frankie's daynuss residents ear. And what was the opinion of the the weapon that fired this shell casings at two sixty peterson. road also fired the shell casings. At amazon and dina's residents wellspring. He and hannah gillies residents so the same firearm had fired on the same properties said he exact same the same firearm. Okay forensic expert joseph. Morgan explained the intricate science involved. In tying shell casing back to a specific on the inside of a handgun like this is got rifling that means it's got lands which kind of flat plateau looking formations and also because these are soft metal brass casings. That are being ejected. Once the round is fired you have referred to extraction marks. This spent case in at least these little marks that are unique to the interior housing of this particular weapon. And even you can have a weapon. That rolls also lawn with fifty other weapons. That are the same same model. But they're all going to be unique at a microscope and that's how they tied back the projectile to a specific weapon. Another suspicious item was found during a different search of the same wagner property. The police some went back and they found what the atf says was likely used as a homemade silencer for a gun. Agent scheider elaborated a mag lite flashlight. Turn into suppressor adapter. One in that is a solid adapter. It closed in and the at the other end who had They threat adapter. And it's designed to catch cleaning solvent when you're cleaning your firearm. But it can easily be converted into a suppressor. They determined that suppressor as defined by federal statute then fired at least one time because they could see april strike inside the suppressor now. It's pretty interesting because that wasn't found that was found in. I think october of twenty eighteen right before the indictments came out and that property. The peterson road home had been searched in may of two thousand seventeen when i hear that it sounds like someone told him about it. We know jake lead them to the gun. Is the murder weapons. The car used purchase the news. And so who knows maybe during cross examination by george. Wagner's attorney agent scheider highlighted some of the other evidence. The state has george including wiretap surveillance could approximates to the nearest hundred. How many hours you had regarding this recording of george wet hours not really but i would say over one hundred hundred days or days and so i want you to focus on those hundred days and maybe your answer but i'm gonna ask you to dip away. Could you tell us over that. One hundred days of recording george wagner would statement. He made you recorded that ties into this case. I mean he never confessed if that's what you're getting at but he may incriminating statements at a different hearing george wagner appeared in court for an unusual request to be put in solitary confinement. Here's deaths speaking with my gallon. What about george wagner asking for solitary confinement. What do you make of that is stated. Recent was that he wanted to be able to study the bible in peace. That's a little unusual when inmates ask for solitary a lotta times although they may not say it. They're asking for that because they've been threatened and you know they wanna make sure that there is safe as they can be in jail. It's hard to. It's hard to know what's going through his head. But i mean either. He's immersing himself in the holy bible. Somebody saying that they're going to do something to him. Either way i is mental state is probably not good but when i read that i kind of wondered is that the real reason i mean you know you just have to wonder what the motivation has. Since his arrest in two thousand. Eighteen accused father billy wagner has also staunchly maintained his innocence. Billy wagner's attorney has been very adamant that there's no evidence there's no case against billy wagner but there's nothing they have nothing that ties him to this last year billy wagner made an audacious move to separate himself from the other members of his family and move his trial forward. He took it upon himself to file a motion court. It has to do with his right to what's referred to as a speedy trial and ohio procedural rules stipulating that anyone charged with a felony must be brought to trial within two hundred and seventy days of their arrest while accused father billy wagner had initially waived his right to a speedy trial it seems he suddenly had a change of heart. The heart received a handwritten motion from billy wagner asking that his right to a speedy trial be invoked and that he was draw his waiver of the speedy trial right. He was pretty frustrated. I guess that he's sitting in jail. He says he's innocent and was frustrated and submitted this to the courts that it was some fairly good jailhouse lawyer assuming he had somebody in the jail. Hendrick this for him and his attorneys. They became aware of it and talked with him and withdrew it immediately. Mike allen gave us his professional opinion on. Billy's homespun legal strategy. I don't care how small your jail is. You're gonna have jailhouse lawyers and criminal. Defense attorneys instruct their clients. Do not listen to the jailhouse lawyers. They don't know what they're talking about if they did. They wouldn't be where they are. So that's every criminal defense lawyers. Worst nightmare is when your client files of motion without consulting the eternity It's a very stupid thing to do. So i'd only wagner's lawyer. I'm sure probably add some strong words for him for doing that. While billion george wagner been busy filing legal motions to help their cases. the same can't be said about accused. Mother angela wagner bob. Cray pence is what you would call. You know another. I share on this case for her defense team. And he's been very It's been very quiet on that front. However angelo wagner has appeared in court for other reasons at a hearing in twenty nineteen judge randy deering revoked angelo wagner's mail and phone privileges after she was caught trying to discuss k. Strategy with her family. Here's her lawyer. Speaking in court that day which stipulated that tashi was fact. I started this contact co-defentats this case on his team nationals out of this wasn't information violation of that wiley or some of angela wagner's alleged orchestration was presented by agent scheider georgia's bail hearing last year. He testified about shoeprints that were found at a few of the crime scenes. This evidence points directly to angela wagner's role in the conspiracy. It's eighty nine. These are the impression that were lifted from chris. Rogan seniors residents are hsun passes that are later determined to be as specific shoe that is determined to be sold by correct in. Did you ultimately executed a search warrant up on stage formula. Just you describe what you were searching. There were two pickup trucks and re trailers were at that location that belonged to the wagner. Family finance yes. We did was walmart receipt. And and and jake specifically in a tub marked important things or something. What was the significance in seat so the walmart receipt is for the waverley ohio walmart on emma avenue it is dated april seventh twenty sixteen timestamped sixteen fifty eight hours on their. There are the purchase of two athletic brand tennis shoes which is consistent with the shoes that we were looking for. And you indicated that the angeles told me a statement to your fellow agents that she purchased those shoes specifically for jacob george correct and you were asked if you recover those shoes if you found shoes You did not react in. Isn't it true to the interest That she had thrown those shoes away very same day that she bought them because wasted life issues. Correct but jd. George told they deny knowledge shoes. We're going to take a quick break here. We'll be back in a still looking from home. The dining room chair is still a pain in the back or neck right. I'm reese jones a designer at human scale with leading makeup of economic office chairs and the problem with most chaz. Is you have to conform to them. That's why human scale. We developed a new kind of chat with a built in mechanism at automatically adjusts to your body. Let you work comfortably. Elevate your work from home. 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Doctors provide you with in-depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go forward dot com today to learn more. That's go forward dot com Altogether it appears. The prosecution has amassed an overwhelming amount of evidence against the wagner. Family here is agent. Scheider telling george wagner's attorney just how much audio evidence the state has at their disposal. What reports you have that you feel are relatives working some evidence here. In this case we have approximately eight thousand recordings primarily of the biker individuals family. You know we also have interviews where i feel there was incriminating. Statements made within the interviews. If got wiretaps in this case they have video surveillance evidence they have you know countless interviews with people the prosecution has said you know. This is a voluminous file. They've said it's takes up terabytes and terabytes. A terabyte is a huge amount of space on a computer. So that gives you an idea of what they've gathered the sheer volume of evidence shocked even seasoned my gallon here. He is talking to jeff. You as an expert is that a high amount is a normal amount of evidence. No that's that's just astronomical. I would not have expected to be that high. It's not normal at all according to investigative reporter jodi bar george and the other accused wagner's could have implicated each other without even knowing what we don't know is whether the wagons gave statements and what status they made to investigators before during or after the charge. We don't know what the contents of any intercepted phone calls. Does they've been in jail. A mike beings who knows what the state of ohio has is far as whether states may one wagner could almost assure a conviction of another. So how could we see the legal battles. Play out in the courtroom. If the wagner's aside to go to trial as stands billy angela and george wagner have all been charged with eight counts of aggravated murder if convicted. They like jake will spend the rest of their lives in prison. Never have i seen anything even remotely close to this case. I've been involved in some bad ones but this one is by far the worst one of many things. That's so unique about this. Offense is you do have generations of family members just taken out completely. Excuse hard to imagine a fact scenario more bizarre than this one. It's just it's so unique in so many ways. One of them is the enormous burden. Trials will place on the legal teams and the ohio criminal justice system. You're trying occasion in the small county with limited resources. I i don't know how they're going to do it. It's just gonna be a logistical nightmare. Can the wagner lawyers work together on the defense or does it all have to be separate. They can work together and that happens. Sometimes when you have co-defendants. I think at some point you've run into some strategy problems but to a certain extent they can but the lawyer Obviously have to represent is client. But if it's in this clients best interest to work with the other lawyers. Yeah a definitely would witness testimony could also prove to be a challenge. You're going to have witnessed burnout. Because many most probably the witnesses in one trial will be witnesses in the other. And you know that's a that's a burden. Upon the witnesses prosecution has no choice they have to go forward and nature and other obstacle seating a jury of twelve impartial pike county residents. Here's chris speaking to reporter james pilcher. It's ohio state law that you initially have to try and see the jury in the county. The crime was committed correct so angela wagner has already requested that her trial be moved out of pike county but under high legal procedures. You have to try the jury in the county where the crime was committed before you're allowed to move it so they've got a toll from a jury pool of registered voters narrow it down to twelve plus a couple alternates and that process can take anywhere from three days to a week depending on the complexity of the case. I mean that's going to be really difficult isn't it. I mean there's only. I think what twenty seven twenty eight thousand residents and all of pike county. You have to pick jers for faces out of a jury pool that small. I would not be surprised to see them. Have to move some of these trials to another county again. Here's my gallon. That's probably the judges Biggest headache in this case is to ultimately be able to seek separate juries. That can't be fair both to the state into the defense. 'cause i think you'd be hard pressed to find any county in the state of ohio. That just was not inundated with media coverage about this It's important to keep this in mind. If a potential sure says under oath that yes. I have seen things in the media about this but i can divorce myself from those things and render a fair and impartial verdict based upon the the evidence that we see from the witness stand testimony and the instructions given by the judge. That's been a good and acceptable juror. And that's the only way that this case is gonna work. Because i unless you're living in some kind of cave. I don't care who you are. You've heard about it and you know you just not going to be able to seat a jury of twelve in any of these cases where they've not heard anything about how our each of the case is likely to affect the other. Are there things that we should be keeping an eye on the first one that goes. I've been kissed the top rope and the guy going last or next to last They're gonna have an advantage. By knowing which way the judge will rule on evidentiary motions and things of that nature. They'll had the benefit of of watching the tape so to speak like like football coach would but there could be one overlooked factor that determines the outcome of the cases. The drive of the prosecuting attorneys. When you see a case like this and see the position these these young kids have been put in. What does that make you feel when you see cases like this. It's just absolutely heartbreaking. It just is because you just know that that is going to permanently affect that child. There's no way that it couldn't prosecutors driven by justice for the victim and the victim's family but if you had a particularly violent and heinous crime like you have here it's tough as a prosecutor. Honestly it makes you wanna work all the harder to get a conviction and yeah. That's just the way it is. No we've heard special agent ryan scheider mentioned witnesses. Who were close to the wagner's and excerpts of his testimony since jake wagner's confession. We haven't heard anything from grandmother of the accused frederico wagner last season. We talked about how she was arrested on obstruction of justice and perjury charges pretending to bulletproof vests she purchased for her son. Billy wagner ship. Purchase the best for him to use in the killings. Her charges were dropped. After hearing and twenty nineteen as the prosecution feared not being able to try the case before the two hundred and seventy days speedy trial statute but hasn't closed yet fredrika. They've they've indicated in court documents that they may charge her again with obstruction. Frederico adner has vehemently defended her family's innocence but is it possible that she knows more about what happened. The night of i twenty sixteen and she's lead on depending on what jake wagner knows and reveals. It's possible that grandmother frederico wagner could be looking at new charges. Do you know what jake pleading guilty. How that will impact his grandmother. Well they can always be Reindicted if there's additional new evidence he kinda seems to be like he's the key to this entire case so yeah i suppose it's possible to our knowledge. Frederico wagner has not been implicated in any other crimes nor has she made any plea deals with the prosecution but the same can't be said for the other grandmother who was charged in the case. Read a new come angelo. Wagner's mother initially told investigators that she had notarized signs some custody documents for the child that jacob and hannah shared in the event that they died but then later as her trial approached on the day of trial all of the sudden. We were all out there. Ready to go and the trial was cancelled and then short time later. She pleaded guilty and in court. The prosecution outlined how they said that Rita admitted that she had lied in that her daughter. Angela had asked her to lie. About signing a notarized those custody documents. Here's the statement. Read a new ca- made during her plea deal as anyone promised you anything at all threatened you in any way all in order to induce you to withdraw your former plea of not guilty into to the original charge of obstructing justice fifth degree felony count four and to enter a plea of guilty to the amended charge of obstructing official business a misdemeanor of the second degree. Now i feel that it's not a good christian thing and i couldn't come. This is all despite angela. Wagner's repeated attempts to further manipulate her mother during court hearings for angela's mother read a newcomb. It was stated that angela wagner was on. Jail calls telling her mother. You don't have to testify against us. Mike allen told stephanie about the challenges read. A new testimony could present at the trials. Move forward if it's obvious to the trial judge that she doesn't want to be testifying to the state. The judge can in probably would designate her as a hostile witness. What is a hostile witness if the prosecution has to call a witness to establish or help one of the elements of the fans and that witnesses someone who's more sympathetic with the defense In all likelihood and the judge would designate that person hostile witness giving the prosecutor the opportunity to ask leading questions so it's not a matter of whether they get up on the stand and act crazy. Act like an idiot. It's a matter of is this person gonna cooperate with whoever is calling them. Another possibility is hearing from one of the long rumored informants we discussed last season. My gallon discussed the role. Informants usually play in cases. Like the wagner's are you able to mike. Just tell us what an informant is. It usually is a situation where they go to the police. With some information mean please can seek out people to and and you know just say hey you tell us what you know about this and i mean. It happens both ways but more often than not. It's it's the police know that somebody there's a good chance somebody would know something and they seek that person out but the thing of it is it. It's a confidential and reliable informant so it has to be someone that you can. You can build a case that they are reliable. At george wagner's bond. Hearing last year agent ryan scheider told the court that one informant had disclosed a deadly plot that the wagner family was planning carrying out it included then attorney general mike dewine pike county sheriff charles reader and scheider himself witness the testified that she was present win shores his brother jake mom and his dad were basically abe retaliation plan. Should they get arrested and charged specifically targeting myself and the wine thin sheriff reader and according to the person jesus information was that state summer. Twenty eighteenth antoinette. Levy heard agent schneider's testimony that day. I think there's supposed to be a couple of informants in this case and one of them which is very interesting happens to be a woman who married jake wagner when the family went to alaska. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment. Geico knows there many reasons why you ride from the exciting adventure of the daily commute to the peace of mind that geico always has your back with twenty four seven access to claim service and legendary customer service but pamela had one reason in particular. My skin is extremely averse to most fabrics except for the soft buttery feeling of leather thankfully. I found my clan of leather lovers in the biking community. It's been life changing geigo motorcycle. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more to show you how easy it is to file a claim with geico. We hired a soap opera. Star gracious me. My car has storm damage. And i had to file. A claim couldn't possibly get worse when my claims team leave me for someone else. Someone less intense. No actually when you file a claim with geico you get your own dedicated claims team. Who promises to stay with you throughout the process. I've never known such loyalty. I can't wait for the second season. Geigo great service. Without all the drama last season we talked about the wagner. Suspicious moved to alaska in june twenty seventeen at the height of the road murder investigation. They said this had been planned for some time. The boys were looking for good jobs up there and the end jake met a woman at church. They became married and In the discovery documents that detail what was handed over by the state to the wagner attorneys. It states that there are several interviews between a bureau of criminal investigations agents and the woman that jake wagner married while he was living in alaska so there are a number of interviews with her and recorded phone calls between this woman and jake wagner. What about the witnesses who were left alive at the scene the road and children who were spared that fateful night in twenty sixteen one of the kids was a three year old toddler if that child witnessed the murder. I don't know if he said something. When the investigators came in the pointed to possibly someone in the wagner family because they would have all known each other He's eight now if he had any memory or had said something at the time when they found him is there any potentially he might be called as a witness although eight now you know high. The rule is a child under the age of ten is presumed incompetent to testify now. If a judge does what they call a dire of that potential witness and determined spat the young person does know the difference between telling the truth telling a lie. It's possible that the judge could permit the testimony. But boy any defense attorney are gonna fight like crazy to keep something like that out. It comes down to the reliability. Is it a reliable state. Can you rely on something. Three three-year-old saw something that an eight year old Years after the fact is is trying to explain. It's tough Not impossible to get a statement like that in. But i think highly unlikely mike allen pointed out compelling entry in one of the discovery documents that implies another piece of the evidentiary puzzle. Is there one piece of evidence just based on what you've seen in terms of the discovery list. That is the or something that really surprised you. The others definitely one thing says trash poll from a two thousand seventeen and that can only mean one thing that dna is involved in this case. What a trash poll is is when somebody sets their trash out at the curb. They do not have a privacy interest anymore in that trash so it's open season for the police if they want to go route through somebody's trash and that's how in many many instances that's law enforcement gets. Dna evidence is from crash. That's the thing that closes the deal right like that closes the case essentially. That's the part of the csi thing that you know jurors watch and that's one thing that's accurate. I mean if if it gets into evidence. It's just devastating another revelation. We're likely to witness at. The trial is more information about the rodents autopsy reports. Though the documents were released months after the murders in two thousand sixteen they were heavily redacted due to a gag order imposed by the judge on the case just a situation where a trial judge who shepherd. These trials through fairly doesn't want the public getting this information before trial. One of the reasons being you don't want a tainted jury pool and of course boss shen. They don't want to telegraph anything from that autopsy. With respect to their strategy reporter. James pilcher told us what journalists were able to glean from the initial releases. Basically laid out where they were found. How many times were shot. You know where they were shot and you know. They live specifically where the kids. The young kids were found. So what can we expect from the full reports. A good autopsy will will tell you a lot about how the victim lived and how they died and get a critical piece of the investigation and possibly reveal information that maybe only the killer would know but the most powerful part of the state's case could come from the prosecutors recreation of the events of april twenty first twenty sixteen according to forensics expert joseph morgan. This narrative helps give voice to each member of the slain family. It's something that will be revealing in real time. As the trials for billy angela and george wagner precede in the case of the massacre in in piked in every single human remains every body that was there has an individual tale to be told. The prosecution is trying to paint a picture here. And they're going to do that. Through these bodies there that's going to be vessel. They're going to travel through here and the more vibrant that the prosecution can make that picture the more effective shocks the conscience of just people that go about their normal daylight. They don't expect this type of thing to happen. And it has period more on that next time for more information on the case and relevant photos. Follow us instagram at kt underscore studios depicted massacre. Returned by county is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker and chris graves. The pike massacre returned to pay. County is a production of iheartradio and kt studios for more podcasts from iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows still working from home. It's time to get a work from home. Chad fits. I'm reese jones a designer at human scale out. Chas have a built in mechanism that automatically adjust your body and let you work comfortably for a limited time. Use the code word. Ho- h o m e to save twenty percent on work from home. Chaz at human scale dot com shipping is free. And you can try it for thirty days. If you don't love it send it back to us. And we'll pay for the At human scale dot com code home to save twenty percent. If you're a small business owner growing your business is what it's all about. That is if you have the space to do it. Keep smart self. Storage has the solution with a variety of storage unit sizes helpful online resources and easy to access facilities cube. Smart self storage provides a self storage experience that puts the focus on you. Because you and your business matter most and to help you grow cube. Smart is offering up to twenty five percent off your monthly rent. Say goodbye to crowded inventory and hello to your business. 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Nov 8, 2019
"Hello and welcome to sword in scale daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Friday November eighth and this is your daily true crime report coming up on sort and scale daily in Ohio Pike. County deputies are conducting a new search and relation with the shocking two thousand sixteen murders of eight members of the road and family. A New York. City husband decapitated is aid worker. Wife and slit the throat of their five year old daughter before hanging himself finally in Teller County. Colorado Patrick Phrase's mistress crystalise. Kenny testified in his trial. Frasier is accused of bludgeoning his fiancee. Kelsey birth to death and recruiting Kenny to help with the cleanup. All this and more coming up on sort and scale daily W K R C local twelve news reports that a new search warrant is being executed at the flying W. Farm in relation with the April. Two thousand sixteen murders of eight eight family members of the road and family in November two thousand eighteen four members of the Wagner family were charged with eight counts of first degree murder as well as conspiracy charges arches in the murderers they are Billy Wagner Angela Wagner and their sons George and Jake Wagner. They all face the death penalty if convicted flying. Hang W farm. The horse farm now under search and seizure is owned by seventy six year old Frederico Wagner. Who was Billy Wagner's mother and George and Jake's grandmother at eight am on April twenty second? Two Thousand Sixteen deputies responded to nine one one call at a mobile home on Union Hill Road and Pike County Ohio when they arrived they discovered two deceased males. And we're flagged down by people who direct them to to other homes were five additional bodies were discovered. The victims were identified identified as members of the road and Family Christopher senior. His Ex wife Dana their children Frankie Christopher junior and Hannah Frankie's fiancee Hannah. Anna Gilly and a cousin Gary wrote in were also found dead later. That afternoon deputies found Christopher's Kenneth wrote in debt in his camper miles away. The victims had all been shot many multiple times three children aged four days. Six months and three years were present at the scene. The had not been harmed law enforcement were initially bewildered by the crime. A marijuana growing operation was found. Near one of the scenes. Leading some to suspect a Mexican excursion drug cartel may have been involved but then in two thousand seventeen police asked the public for information about the Wagner family for the Dayton Daily News this twenty-six-year-old Jake Wagner had a two year old daughter Sophia with Hannah Roden Sophia. Who was born in two thousand thirteen was conceived when Hannah Road and was only only fifteen but Jake Wagner was twenty the two had lived together and were in an exclusive relationship until March two thousand fifteen when Hannah asked Jake to move move out? They remained romantically involved until September. Two Thousand Fifteen. When Hannah broke things off hand then became pregnant with her second child? who was was only four days old when she was murdered? This child was not Jake Wagner's on the night of the murders. Sophia was staying over at the Wagner's home six days after the murders Jake Wagner asked for and was granted full custody of Sofia then the Wagner's moved to Alaska. They moved back to Pike County. In the spring of two thousand eighteen and were arrested and charged in November they've all been held without Bond Frederico Wagner had previously previously been charged with perjury and obstruction in relation to the murders. This July prosecutors asked to withdraw the charges against Wagner so they may be refiled eld wants. New evidence has been analyzed the search warrant which is being carried out. This week is sealed so it is not known what law enforcement is looking for however it has has been confirmed that the search is related to the road and family murders in other news. The New York Daily News reports that on Wednesday forty six year old Yonathan tablet murdered his wife forty two year old Jennifer Schlecht and their five year old daughter before taking his own life. The couple met at Columbia University in two thousand one. One Ted la who originally from Ethiopia was working on campus as a freelance. It specialist Schlecht. Who had been a Peace Corps? Volunteer was studying to obtain her masters in social work and public health at the time of her death. Jennifer shellacked was a well known professional. Inner field working for the United Nations nations foundation on International Emergency Responses Jennifer selects. Father Kenneth told the New York Daily News they. His daughter's marriage had begun to sour. Five years ago go after the couple welcomed their only child can it stated quote his behavior towards her change pretty dramatically when they had a child Kenneth Schlecht said that Jennifer had talked about getting an order of protection against her husband a few years ago but eventually decided to stay in the marriage for the sake of their daughter. Recently however things took a turn for the worse and Jennifer had decided to seek a divorce when Kennedy spoke with his daughter for the last time on Sunday she was quote in tears. I said her husband had indicated that if she served him with divorce papers he would ruin her and take them all out which was apparently what he did on Tuesday a day before she was murdered Jennifer select went to court to file an order of protection against Tad la but it was election day so the courts were closed. She planned plan to file the order. The next day and her family was waiting to hear from her when she returned record they waited in vain for a call and around nine PM. Her brother called nine one one one and requested a wellness check on Jennifer when New York Police Department arrived at the four-storey Harlem Brownstone they forced their way into their apartment and entered upon on a gruesome scene. Jennifer selects decapitated body was lying on the bathroom floor. Her head placed in her lap. The couple's five-year-old daughter was dead in her bedroom her necklace so deeply. She too was nearly decapitated after Yonathan had butchered his family. He hanged himself from the door or KNOB on his daughter's bedroom door neighbors lamented the tragedy on Thursday. The couple were popular in the neighborhood and seemed like a happy perfect family on Thursday. They wonder what made headless snap. But as we know from Kennedy Schlecht the couple had not been happy in a long time and appearances. This can be deceiving. After the break. New details about the murder of Colorado Mother Kelsey Barrett emerged during testimony in the trial of her fiance. Patrick swayze now for our final story thirty two year old. Patrick swayze is on trial for the two thousand eighteen. Bludgeoning murder of his twenty nine on your fiance Kelsey Beth. Frasier embarrassed shared a one year old daughter Kayleigh prosecutors allege that phrase e beat bear to death with a baseball bat in her apartment on November twenty. Second two thousand eighteen Thanksgiving Day. The motive for the murder was the financial strain. Frazee was under as well. As Bertha this desire to gain full custody of Keighley on November twenty fourth frizzy force his married mistress Krystal Lee Kenny to help him clean up the crime scene. Gene and destroy evidence Kelly's body was burned and no remains were ever discovered. frizzy is also charged with three counts of solicitation the murder related to three instances when he attempted to recruit his mistress Kenny to murder his fiancee in February. Kenny pleaded guilty to tampering. Bring with evidence and return for her testimony against Razi. Kenny began her multi-day testimony this Wednesday the Denver Post reports that in her testimony Kenney said she had been romantically involved on and off for more than a decade frazee rekindled. The affair in two thousand fifteen. When Kenny was married to another man he did not tell her about having a fiancee or a child and when she found out from another person he began telling her lies to paint Kelsey Barrett in the darkest light? Light Breezy told Kenny. Bear was an aggressive alcoholic who abused their daughter Kayleigh. Among many other tall tales Brazi said Berith had had intentionally close the refrigerator door on their daughter's hand and burn the child with a curling iron. He insisted that it was up to Kenny. Not Him to save Kaley early from abuse in the fall of two thousand eighteen phrase. He began claiming that Kaley was in immediate danger and CPS refused to act on his complaints. He told Kennedy she needed. Help him quote take care of the problem and on three different occasions made plans for Kent Murder Gareth using poison mock Jato auto a baseball bat and pipe and each case frazee handed Kenny the weapon and she drove to bear department and then she would not carry out the murder in October. Two thousand eighteen. She began to doubt phrase's stories of abuse. After watching Kaley. For a day Kelsey birth was last seen alive on Thanksgiving Day on her neighbors surveillance. Camera the camera also captured Patrick swayze going in and out of the apartment. Eleven Times prosecutors. Believe Patrick Murdered Kelsey the on Thanksgiving his older brother. Sean phraseology a Colorado. Police officer testified earlier. This week. That phrase was three hours late for Thanksgiving on Wednesday. Kenny testified that Razi called her on Thanksgiving and told her to meet him in Baird's Condo because quote. She had a mess to clean up Kenny. Who Lives in Idaho? Eighty two who drove twelve hours to meet frizzy. It was only when she entered Earth's apartment that she realized what Frasier done. There was a large dried up pool of blood a lot in the living room. Blood splatter high up on the walls and bloody footsteps on the stairs. Kennedy said she cleaned up the blood because she was afraid of frizzy now that she realized what he was capable of she claims she cleaned home for four hours but left some blood drops behind intentionally breezy and Kenny spent the rest of the day cleaning meaning and finally took births body. The murder weapon and any items from the House that they could not clean to phrase's ranch and burn them when Frasier and Kenny spoke okay. Afterwards he told her that Kaley had been in the bedroom while he murdered her mother in the living room and the barretts final words were quote. Please stop after for the cleanup. Can He return to Idaho. Frizzy gave her births phone and she intentionally turned it on during her. Drive back so that it was leaving a trace phrase. He kept calling her and she was afraid if she went to the police. He too would kill her. She said quote. I figure I had done what he needed me to do. And I was was probably disposable at the time the trial continues next week before we leave you. We have a couple of updates on cases. We've been covering the first update is on the case of twenty year old Richard Cole. who was found murdered on October? Twenty seventh behind the Roller Rink. biking skate country in Redding California doc on Wednesday. The suspect 21-year-old drums Wahnich pleaded not guilty to premeditated murder in court. However PER CARE CR in court documents released on Thursday show that Swan ick confessed to the murder? According to the court documents Louis Cole left her house around eleven pm on the evening being of the twenty sixth and spent the night with friends who live on. Bute Street during the sleepover. She told her friends that she was texting with a man named Jerome. When police he's looked Larissa's texts and facebook messages they saw the she'd been corresponding with drums wanted and they had made plans for him to pick her up early Sunday morning to go buy alcohol for her in her friends? Drome pick up at our friends house at Seventy M and shortly thereafter he was seen on. TV purchasing alcohol at a Safeway Grocery Grocery store when interviewed by police is wanted said that he and Larisa then drove to the area of Turtle Bay and smoke marijuana which he thought may have been laced with methamphetamine. Awesome phetamine then. They parked behind the nearby Viking Skate country and fell asleep in the car which seems to be kind of an odd thing to do if marijuana was laced ace with methamphetamine. Besides that is wanted told police that when he woke up key saw Larussa leaving his car and became convinced she had stolen his wallet and keys he then followed her out of the car and noticed an iphone cord dangling out of her bag so he snatched it and strangled her when he realised she was still alive. He strangled her again finishing off what he had started he then throughout her belongings including her cell phone in a trash can on bute street not far from his home. The person who fished the phone out of the trash brought. It delivers his friend. Who then brought to police? We will continue to update the story as it unfolds. Our second update is in the case of missing college student. Anaya blanchard police in Alabama have identified a suspect in her kidnapping. Ni- has been missing zinc since October. Twenty third and was last seen in a convenience store in Auburn. Her car with damage to the front passenger side was discovered abandoned in Montgomery inquiry on Wednesday afternoon. Police released surveillance camera. Images of a person of interest in the case and ask for the public's help in identifying him on Thursday it was announced that thanks to the public's assistance the man has been identified as thirty year. Old Abraham Yezid Zied has several previous arrests for violent violent offenses including one for attempted murder. Yezid Blanchard do not know each other and police believe she may have been carjacked. Police are still searching for. Ez and a warrant for his arrest on a failure to appear in court has been issued. He's been charged with first degree kidnapping in a nice case. He is believed to be armed armed and dangerous. That's Today we'll see next week and until then stay safe you it sort of scale. Daily is an incongruity production. Your host was Ryan Williams Research Research and writing by Hagar Barak Executive Producer. Mike Day if you'd like to show subscribing leave us a review if you'd like to write us with feedback or suggestions nations use the e mail daily Sword Scale Dot Com.
Episode 8- Truth Be Revealed
"Your shows right. Well then listen up. If you've expanded the internet entertainment starts at free with flex so you can get really into your shows. Find your favorites faster with just your voice. The office from peacock to hbo. Max end disney plus the whole squads here the falcon and the winter soldier. And he's losing. It's a way better way to watch. Restrictions apply subscriptions required to access streaming services including disney plus requires postpaid xfinity internet excluding essentials one device included additional devices. Five dollars a month. I'm dr larry centers. I'm a psychology professor at yale. And i started to notice that a lot of my students were all that happy so i created a new class longtime everybody to psychology and the good life. But it's not just my student who need to understand the science of well being and that's why we launched the happens lab so you can learn about it too. Are you ready to feel happier. Head to the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or if you like to listen brought to you by discover- discover something writer. Welcome to the pike and massacre a production of iheartradio and katie studios episode. eight truth be revealed. Over the course of seven episodes. We have examined the details of the murders of eight members of the rodent family. The investigation that was launched in their wake and what led up to the arrests of six members of the wagner family. Now we're gonna look at where the case stands and what lies ahead next week's episode burning questions. I'm courtney armstrong a television producer at katy studios with stephanie decker. And jeff shane. When we left off last week it was june twenty six twenty nineteen and frederico wagner was in the defendant's chair in pike county courtroom. She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury in connection with the road murderers. Here's frederica zone. Easter aa defending her aunt's claims earth. The prosecutors falsely believe bulletproof vests were purchased before the road and homicides both sides know that it is not true they were in fact purchased on may the seventh two thousand sixteen fifteen days after the day of the road homicides. So that's proven we know there's like receipts right. Yep got receipts got a. We have everything second. She guest and thought that she bought them from amazon. Now why they made a big deal about what what were they came off the internet. She ordered them off the internet. Whenever you go on the internet a bunch of places come up usually amazon's the first thing that comes up. She did that a lot but they made a big deal about it so they went back through her books and they found out that she did buy them but it wasn't from amazon ebay but criminal. Defense attorney mike. Allen told jeff that frederica statements are a much bigger deal than ray thinks. Well obviously when you have a situation like this and someone involved with the people that are charged makes purchase of to bulletproof vests whether it's from ebay or amazon at something that the prosecution would be interested in and she apparently was before the grand jury when she misrepresented if you will where she bought these things from it it. it's it's relevant and and also too. I think it would be fair to say that the prosecution probably wanted this Put onto the charges put on her to have a little bit elaborate with her to. Do you think that her explanation of to sing o. I don't remember confused as an attorney. Do that makes someone look more guilty yet. Does especially something. Like this. And i know she's elderly but boy she certainly seems like she's pretty sharp but a rather big event in most people's lives if they purchased bulletproof pass Online or anyway you purchase some. You would think that you would remember where you purchase them from so yeah it doesn't make her look good at all. Ultimately frederico wagner's lawyer filed receipts that proved. She made the purchases fifteen days after the slayings. This led the defense team to turn over. Potential evidence is required to the prosecution too late to meet the criteria for a speedy trial. They dismiss the charges against frederico wagner while reserving the right to charge her again. My gallon broke down. What all this means with respect to the ohio speedy statute. It's generally you have to bring a felony case within two hundred seventy days from the indictment. I think the prosecution was running. Out of time so strategically i think they decided to dismiss it with the option and the right to refile it again. If that becomes necessary soc- he gets hard with the same crimes again. Oh yeah they were dismissed without prejudice. Which means that the state can refile them at a later date but it seems that frederico wagner doesn't foresee that happening here she is speaking to the press after hearing trust in the lord with all your heart lean not to your own understanding in all your ways acknowledge him and he will direct your path and as my turn will tell you. It was just missed because i was innocent. They had no evidence against me. I never lied about anything. Frederico wagner's freedom validates with diriye has believed all along. She has never in her life. Anything wrong she's not capable of and you know if she thought that her kids would have done something bad. She would have recommend that they turn themselves in for anything. I mean she. She loves she. She lives by what she says she lives by which is what she gives all the glory to god. Angela billy jake. George wagner were charged with aggravated murder. Angela wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem and billy wagner's mother frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nukem was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty and our justice system presumes. Innocence until guilt is proven. But one thing. That doesn't help. Frederico agnes case is a revelation by the prosecution at a pretrial hearing for her son. Billy and twenty twenty the state submitted evidence showing not the night before frederica testified before the grand jury and twenty eighteen. She had searched the internet for information about penalties for perjury. Here's our anonymous wagner family relative. She shared her thoughts with jeff. Do you think that his mom. Billy's mom frederica. Do you think she had an involvement. I believe i believe she could've yeah. I'm elated that she definitely I don't believe she tried to stop it. you know. i don't believe that she. I i believe if anything probably influence to encourage it and her son to do what he did. Others like rodent family friend. Stefan thinks that frederico wasn't just involved in the murders but could possibly have orchestrated the whole thing. I don't take for a woman at all. She's a business woman. She's probably shrewd. She's the head the monarch you know so the monarch is usually the one that that has their thumb on everybody. She's wanted to control over. Everything seems to me like investigative journalists. Jodi bar the alleged involvement of frederico wagner upends conventions of who actually could be capable of being involved in murder. I think this case if it ended today as it is alleged. I don't think there's anybody on this planet that can look at those people and say those people look like a family who could slaughter eight cuban beams if you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer looked like i think this case in pike county is showing you you have no idea So here we are four years later. Two of the six defendants are free and four others are in prison facing death. Penalty charges accused of killing eight members throat and family deaf unie followed by jeff as it stands now the trials for billy angela. Jacob wachner are slated to begin in the next few months matter. Really understand this case and where it stands and what's to come. We'll have to examine some of the most important points in the five thousand pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence. There are more than three hundred thirty. Two thousand files of evidence in this case one of the exhibits in the prosecution's arsenal is related to billy wagner in his copy of the nine hundred ninety. Nine movie the boondock saints. The film is about two brothers in boston. Who exact a form of vigilante justice by murdering mobsters and other criminals. It's extremely violent and over the top but the big takeaway for this case. Is that the brothers. In the film you silencers on their guns. A method that members of the wagner family are accused of using to execute the rodents as we covered in the last episode. A homemade silence are was discovered at a farm once owned by jake and george wagner but d'auray thinks the connection is tenuous at best. I read that and i had to laugh. I had to laugh so hard. Okay so you have to remember that. This was a very organized. Brilliantly darn execution. This is something that you wouldn't learn on a dvd. Some buying with military background navy seals. I mean whoever did it who was growing their professional. These people are not professional killers. Mike allen told jeff that the dvd could be a building block and the state's case. You can't watch a movie and learn how to wipe out an entire family. That seems like a stretch. What is your take on that. I don't think they could introduce it for the for the proposition that that's how the wagner's learned how to do that. I think if the state Introduced it or attempted to get it introduced which is be kind of peripheral to like. Hey you know somebody in that family watch that movie or ordered that movie or bought that movie and it's a movie about vigilante justice. But i would certainly try at least because apparently in this case the allegation is silence. We're used and they were used in that movie as well so it would be one piece of evidence that they could add onto other evidence It'd be a piece of evidence if admitted that they could talk about in closing argument. So while not determinative in any way shape or form it is evidence that could be helpful to the state. There's a mountain of other evidence. The prosecution plans on using one that stands out as an excel spreadsheet that contains five hundred nineteen entries of messages about child custody. I spoke with my gallon about it. Another piece of evidence that's been talked about. Are these excel spreadsheets. Apparently they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about child custody and facebook screenshots regarding it what does that tell you well. It tells me that could be a part of the motive in this case. And that's pretty strong evidence of motive if they're keeping all these things screenshots and it seems that they were kind of obsessed with his desire to get custody and control would be circumstantial but circumstance. You ll evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence because evidence is circumstantial. Doesn't mean that it's not good evidence strong evidence but you know it's like you're you're dropping You know pebbles into a pond every little pebble makes a ripple and you know you build on those things and at the end of the day at the prosecution. Does it right every little bit. Helt with respect to building a case the discovery documents also include information about a person that some speculate could be an informant. Jody bar told us about trying to track down this worse. The name of the informant has been published. Which is why it's bleeped in his interview. Only thing i know is that was a name given very early on. Who i was told did business with chris rhoden. I was never able to even find it. This person exists. I guess they did i. It really does exist. But when i was given a list of names of people who could potentially either been involved in this new about this this is what personnel tried to track down at find over inside iota county which is just across the line from pike and i was never able to find this person but i told that this person new christine your plea as far as know. They were together a lot and they were in some business pitchers together but again i was never able to find this person or to verify anything that was ever told me about him. Prosecutors for the case claiming another confidential informant told them of a specific meeting at frederico wagner's home. It occurred with the other accused family members and allegedly included talk of quote taking revenge on a special agent then attorney general mike dewine and pike county. Sheriff charles reader. Their evangelists allegedly planned. Family was arrested. Jody bar dissected these claims with jeff. It just seems so careless that the people accused of this would be bringing outsiders into a home. Although we don't know who the confidential informant is but they would risk getting caught if they were so skillful in pulling this off that they would bring outsiders in to have discussions like this where they're number one admitting it essentially but secondly you're talking about taking hits out on the chief law enforcer pike county and achieved law enforcement for the state of ohio. But that's an interesting point that it doesn't compute that if they were like ninjas and they could do this elaborate crime why would they be so sloppy then to have these conversations with with other people. When i see confidential informant men. A part of me goes. I wonder if one of the wagner's as rolled over and is helping. This investigation is still something under there. Have been some plea deals already made. Here's charges dismissed. But you've gotta wonder who is this a format because if it's a member of the wagner family and i think that's a twist no one saw common. Let's stop here for quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backcourts. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors. 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Dna evidence both as a prosecutor and as the defense attorney. That's not good news for the defense. If they've got almost three thousand pages of dna evidence evidence that would have been sent to the lab and comes back. They've gotta have something. I mean i would be shocked if they didn't have some credible. Dna evidence against at least one of these defendants probably more of them. That's bad news for the defense There's just no way of getting around it. Because dna evidence if extracted properly and analyze proper properly. It's pretty much lights out if they did it correctly so i think it's problematic for the defense here. Stephanie followed by jeff. In addition the report also lists one thousand one hundred and seventy crime scene photos cyber forensic reports of the wagner's their cell phones and their computers and hundreds of pages citing reference to the recovery of firearms and ballistic testing in fact at the pretrial hearing for george wagner. Just a few weeks ago. We got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have so this hearing was for emotion the defense was making to get george wagner. The eldest son released from prison on bond in response. The prosecution laid out some of the evidence they have against george wagner basically an argument to keep george behind bars one of the lead detectives on the case testified that he and team have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides with guns believed to be owned by the wagner's including a twenty two caliber long rifle a forty caliber handgun and a thirty caliber gun. Prosecutors also pointed to evidence that shoeprints from the exact same shoes purchased at walmart by the wagner's to allegedly frame dana rodin's brother. You remember james manley were found in dried blood at two of the crime scenes and get this in fact receipts for those exact same shoes. There are very specific walmart. Athletic shoe were found. During a search of the wagner property in two thousand sixteen there are also over five thousand recorded statements from interviews with george wagner who claimed there really was no issue regarding custody between jake wagner and hannah roden over their daughter sophia and that we know is just not true right so with all of this. The wagner still continue to declare their innocence. Is it really possible that they did. In fact have nothing to do with it over recently. One of the wagons lawyers made statements to the press saying that a loose custody arrangement between jake wagner and hannah further daughter. Sophia was being formalized by another attorney in ohio at the time of the killings but due to the fact that hannah was murdered. The agreement was never formalized. So it's not permissible in court. I spoke with about her second cousin. Jake wagner to see if we could get any more information on the custody arrangement between him and hannah roten. Do you know anything about like. They were trying to get custody of sofia before the murders. I don't know anything about that. Okay yeah. I was just curious because you hear a lot about that. I never heard you know. I talked to my analyze. That was that was never mentioned. So do you think that that is fabricated as well. I if i'm hearing you right. I don't believe that it has anything to do with it. I don't believe there was a custody battle. i think that's another made apply. What makes you say that is. I never heard anything about it. I mean somebody did it but we don't know who and we're for sure it wasn't the wagner family. It's a tragedy and most of the people that i talked to. They're all thinking. It's drug related something that had to do with drug trafficking. We don't know it's who knows it's a ministry. We found it strange for woman who covers her family's case closely not to know anything about the custody issues that other family relatives disclose to us before. Even stranger is something else that was presented at george. Wagner's most recent pretrial hearing again. He's the eldest son. Prosecutors pointed to a screenshot of a message from hannah road into one of her friends in this message. She's discussing the wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged custody documents. The ones that we've talked about in previous episodes now get this. Screenshot was found on the wagner family computer seized during the investigation and again allegedly the wagner scott it by hacking into hannah. Rodents facebook account. The message is nothing short of chilling. It reads and i quote. I won't sign papers ever. It won't happen. They'll have to kill me. I end quote. It does seem clear. The wagner's were sort of obsessed with custody and control of sofia and speaking with people close to the family. This actually wasn't the first time custody became an issue christina howard sister tabby was married to george wagner for several years. The two had a son together but eventually split up. According to christina following their divorce the wagner family tried to force tabby into handing over custody of their son. This is christina's recollection of events. She spoke to jeff about it somehow or another. Angela like manipulated her with different papers. Sign and stuff and they had taibbi finding over the rights in custody to george. You know they had money for expensive lawyer. Tabby didn't and so they had custody plum up until they got caught and stuff for the crimes. Do you think that she was obsessed with having custody of all her grandkids. Oh yeah definitely why do you say that tabby like whenever she would try to reach out to george like. Hey come i come visit. Might son and angela get on there and be like all bees. Not your son anymore. Tell tabby like old. You might have gave barton by on his real mother. Because i take care of him. And all these nasty things and christina told us that in the aftermath of tabby and georgia's custody battle hannah road contact a tabby for advice on how to deal with their own custody issues with wagner's i knew that hanno was struggling to keep custody of sofia. Because she wants to her. My sister were pretty close. And you know tabby straight up told her like a sa present you with papers. Do not sign them gives them to a lawyer. I let the lawyer read it over and proceed from there because they will try to still custody afia even if they're trying to act like they're understanding and all of the swords not listen to them because they will screw over christina's account of george wagner and tabbies dispute in addition to everything we've heard about jake wagner hannah roden clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when it comes to custody but when jeff asked array about george and tabbies custody battle she soundly refuted christina's claims. I want your side of this. People say that like george custody situation where he tried to get custody of his son. Jake a similar situation. People are saying that like angela was just obsessed with the kids wanted all the control of the of the children. I don't i. Don't i don't believe that i don't believe that. I know she loved them. But i don't believe she is obsessed. I think she's a normal grandmother and choose an excellent role model. While we don't know all the details of george wagner and tabbies custody case there is evidence that the wagner's did deceive hannah roden by trying to convince her to sign fake custody documents here. Stephanie followed by jeff. It seems being locked up in prison hasn't even stopped the wagner's for one second from trying to manipulate those closest to them as we discussed in september of two thousand nineteen angela wagner tried to discuss k. strategy even influence testimony from prison prosecutors also claim that angela wagner called. Her mother. Read a new come. She's the one that's accused of forging those custody documents. She called her several times and basically asked her not to testify against the family and also told her how to explain away the custody documents that she's accused of forging as a punishment. A judge suspended angela. Wagner's in jail phone and mail privileges. Mike allen told us that this is just another blow for the defense any criminal defense attorney. That is doing their job. And i'm sure every one of these criminal defense attorneys are doing their job. They tell their client from day. One and do not under any circumstances discuss the case on the phone because you can guarantee that the conversations are being kate. prosecutors can use those conversations If the person is talking about strategy make some kind of admission intimidates witnesses. The recording doesn't lie and that could end up to be pretty strong evidence against her at the end of the day. A wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request. He made after five months in prison. He asked to be transferred. From general population to solitary confinement. Usually solitary confinement is given to a prisoner. Who either is a threat to other prisoners or who may be in danger in the general population. My gallon told us that george had a different reason is stated. Recent was that he wanted to be able to study the bible in peace. That's a little unusual when inmates ask for solitary a lotta times although they may not say it. They're asking for that because they've been threatened and you know they wanna make sure that there is safe as they can be in jail. But when i read that i kind of wondered. Is that the real reason. I mean you know you just have to wonder what the motivation is. So how does all this evidence up. How strong is the state's case against billy angela. Jake and george wagner. I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be a prosecutor as a criminal defense attorney. You never say never As far as you know your chances in front of a jury and said that that the evidence sure seems strong. And we don't know all the evidence we know what's public so the old adage that a prosecutor could entice a ham sandwich is true but smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they can win beyond a reasonable doubt and i think mike dewine who is in the driver's seat in this thing. There's no way he would have indicted this. If he didn't think he could prove it or ultimately someone could prove it at the end of the day. Let's stop here for quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment. You want to see miss. Wouldn't have you been hearing about the new government modernization efforts. aarp as data science. Things are changing at this agency and people will need new skills. I'd like you to get some training management concepts catalog. Wow over two hundred seventy five courses. That's right and local classrooms or in stricter online classes. We still have budget in this fiscal year. So sign up online advance your career with courses from management concepts get a catalog at management concepts dot com or call eight three three five seven eight eighty four sixty six your time for real summer fund is here so ditch the boredom and hit up your local mini dealer because the many summer of driving then is happening. Now get a new mini cooper. Hardtop two door starting to twenty nine per month for thirty six month. Low mileage lease with two thousand nine hundred ninety nine due at signing visit many usa dot com slash east for details. That's many usa dot com slash east. And see what. It's like to drive something this fine at the summer of dr event with many. We've been covering this case for over two years and in that time we've examined not only the details of the eight murders themselves but the multiple theories that have surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection. Discoveries of the murder scenes are now advancing. The theory killing could be related to a drug cartel. The rodents had a pretty sizeable crop of marijuana plants on their property. So you know. There were indications that they were involved in drug dealers and drug trade with marijuana. We explored the rumors of small town revenge. There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public his message in his talking about. I'm not break his fucking legs and curb. Stop his ass. We also investigated a series of eerily similar killings. We have had a double homicide. Four children left alive. This is very similar to the road in case and we had heard that there were other people who were shot nolan. I nets security style in their homes. And when you're looking at the road in case and then you see these other cases in a county that small you start asking yourself what the hell is going on. It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless there is some sort of common denominator but in the end it was some of the people who are closest to the rodents that were arrested for orchestrating the brutal cold blooded massacre at the sar of this case or members of the wagner family whom we believe the evidence will show conspired together to kill these eight people as we struggled to make sense of the crimes we've listened to the impassioned arguments of family members who insist that their relatives are innocent. Our family joke is there's no way that betty crocker in the doe. Boys could ever go to an extreme of murder. Somebody did it but it wasn't now we've heard first person accounts from relatives that support the primary motive in this case cake with their little girl. There was a custody battle. And hannah wasn't allowing jake. See her in. It just sent him to the point where jake. He made the comment that he were going to kill her. But there are some who are simply torn in wagner's were arrested. You had your fifty fifty. You had people that said yes. I knew that they did that. And then you've got people that a. There's no way those people. I don't think anybody would believe that a family could've put together such j. d. cold kit on another family that they had created life with. It's still too difficult to accept into hard to believe. Many in the piped-in in area believe there is no doubt that the wagner's plotted this horrific killing spree people wanted to paint the through feud between the roads and wagner's as something like the hatfields and mccoys doesn't make sense me if they are innocent. Because who else would do that. Whether the wagner's are innocent or guilty doesn't change the fact that the lives of eight members of a revered local family. The rodents were taken on april. Twenty second twenty sixteen dana roden thirty-seven-year-old mother grandmother and nurse living in her brand new home. Chris rhoden forty year old loving father and grandfather. Dana and chris's oldest son twenty year. Old frankie roden frankie's fiance twenty year. Old hannah gilly. Who was in bed with their six month old. Baby rooker frankie. Rodents three year. Old son brantley. Both of whom were spared. Hannah may roden nine year old mother to two year old sophia and her five day old newborn kylie dana and chris's youngest child sixteen year old. Chris junior who had just gotten his drivers license. Cristina's older brother forty four year. Old kenneth moton father of three and his cousin thirty eight year old gary roden who is staying with christina. That night horrible to this day in dana and her family will never never gets the celebrate birthdays and have parties and get togethers barbecues and stuff like that. It's it's it's terrible. It's it it just really hurts my heart in all this. It's sometimes easy to forget. Those whose lives were spared that fateful night but who lost everything in the process. The road and children. It's two families really have been destroyed and at the center of tragedy is. Are these kids whose families are torn apart and lost so fi is one that is losing the most at this point in her life because she's lost her mom side of the family. She's lost her father's side of the family and she is in child protective custody where no one knows where she is. She has lost on both sides. She's lost both of our families. Does it supposed to be happy for her. This is her childhood. The tragic legacy of the road murders continues to loom over the town of piped in ohio. You know whatever happened that morning on union hill road. It impacted a lot. More people were killed. I mean you've got their family members and you've got people in that area are to remember this forever. This is never going away. Part of the horrible. I mean just absolutely awful act. You know that they'd destroying other family completely. They have changed family life for the rest of their life Though that they you know like well the are has changed as well you know. We get tortured daily with the thought of how our family could have done something like this and we still have love for them. I do film though. Terrible for the roads. And i've always wanted to be able to address. How sorry i am and just because we still love angela. Jake doesn't mean that we are sorry. For what with trials for billy angela jake george wagner potentially just months away the residents of the peyton area sit anticipation awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter in the town's history and a conclusion to ohio's most notorious murder case. I've been in the system for over fifty and that is extremely rare that you got for people for defendants facing the death penalty. What will happen is anyone's guess if they walk out of that courtroom without any convictions. Can't imagine how the rodents go on in the public to i mean. How do you not known for sure exactly who did this. It's to be brokenhearted. It's gonna be broken hearts. I honestly think that that the wagner's is it's going to mistrial. Its search for the truth and you know that old proverb from shakespeare that the truth will out in the end. I believe that as it applies to this case The mystery will be solved the truth all eventually and inevitably discovered and it looks like that's the way they're heading. I like everybody else. Wanna know. I wanna know how the story reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions were on instagram facebook and twitter. At piped-in massacre we look forward to answering your questions in upcoming episodes. Payton massacre is executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane and andrew becker. The pectin massacre is a production of iheartradio and katie studios for more podcast from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows in the land of diamonds services king maker queen with a gorgeous nervous diamond before you go down on. One knee moves diamond importers with a huge selection of high quality diamonds at fair prices. Movers diamond is washington's. First choice at mervyn's you'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy diamonds. Make a statement. They say you know value. Nine of ten brides choose movies. The tenth is still speech us. Check out of us at movers. Diamonds dot com again. That's moves diamonds. Dot com management concepts delivers the training. Federal employees need for every stage of their career. Over two hundred. Seventy five courses taught online in classrooms by expert instructors new leadership an acquisition courses available for twenty twenty one management concepts dot com.
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Or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you by discover- discover something brighter. Welcome to the picton massacre production of iheartradio and katie studios. This is episode ten wild country in this episode. We're going to be answering a bunch of questions. We've received over social media. We are also going to be going deeper into some subjects. We've only touched on and talking about some stories. We haven't been able to tell. I'm courtney armstrong. I work at katy studios with stephanie. Linebacker and jeff sheen just as illegal reminder angela billy jake george wagner were charged with aggravated murder angelo wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem and billy wagner's mother frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nukem was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty and our justice system presumes. Innocence until guilt is proven. Allie from florida asked us about the drugs and how they relate to the case. And if there's anything else in the piked an area that pertains to drugs that we should know so one of the big theories behind the murders we explored was drugs And the fact that the rodents did have a pretty large marijuana grow operation on their property. But it's not just specific to the rodent or even specific to picked in. The immediate area is kind of a hotbed. That's been affected by drugs in myriad ways for starters. There's not a ton of jobs. And that has really taken a toll on the town and is generally speaking ohio and the southern part of the state and has been devastated by drug abuse. Mostly prescription painkillers and heroin. In pike county the drug overdose mortality rate from twenty fourteen. To twenty eighteen was more than seventy one deaths per one hundred thousand population. The rate for the rest of the country was twenty seven deaths per one hundred thousand. That's nearly three times. The mortality rate of the rest of the country a lot of these drugs. Come in from portsmouth portsmouth. Ohio is the neighboring town japan. So about a fifteen minute drive. I spoke to investigative reporter. James pelter who didn't incredibly deep dive into portsmouth into the larger picture of what's happening in southeastern ohio portsmouth which is In the next county over on the river south of pike county and piped-in is known as ground zero for the pill mental epidemic. That's pill mills and the opioid epidemic is known to have had a major hotspot early on in the late nineteen nineties early. Two thousands wenatchee con. I hit the market and tell me what a pill mill is. A pill mill is where a doctor who for. Whatever reason isn't there to see clients. Somebody who shows up and you just hands them prescription for money and then they get the prescription there and then right. Next door is a pharmacy and then they just put it in. And then those people get the pills because it's legal in that state. They might drive them home. Florida and then sell them for ten times. The price or trade them or whatever but it was unregulated in ohio. At the time and kentucky was bad to kentucky had the same issues. So right there in portsmouth right there on the ohio river bordering kentucky. So you had both sides of the river. So there were cars lined up from florida in west virginia and georgia up and down all over town for a decade and it's just ravaged the city which had already been decimated by you know the pull out of industrialization and so all of that kind of flooded in you have all of these. You know an economically depressed area. All of a sudden addiction becomes a major major issue. People are driving from all over the country because it's easy to get the pills there and then of course there's also the people who get into kind of the illicit activities to make money right absolutely absolutely a cottage industry of crime and drug associated crime kind of sprung up and you know started to do my own reporting on it. So one of our editors worked as the managing editor the portsmouth daily times. Which is the daily newspaper there in nearly twenty tens and so. He was very familiar with the rumors that had been circulating. A roundabout michael moran moran had already been a city councilman. But he wasn't on city council anymore but he was still well known within the legal circles and cheaper of commerce and he did some work. Pro bono work for about Legal defense but he always seemed to have a pretty girl in his arm. In december of twenty eighteen a now former reporter with that newspaper put out on facebook segments of a federal affidavit from the drug enforcement administration which basically laid there and put out for public viewing that's the federal law enforcement was investigating the very thing rumors that have been following moran around for years that he was running girls running drugs and that this was who he was. It's important to note that. Michael moran has not been arrested or charged with any crimes. Also that moran has categorically denied all of this my editor at the time and i was working as investigative reporter at the cincinnati enquirer would be interested in taking a look at this. And i'll be honest. I thought i didn't think it was real at first. I thought there was no way that this is as bad as as they say. It is and whatever so. I took a drive out there. They partner partner me with a Woman photographer who we went out there a couple of times and they'll never forget it. We were doing some biros few shots in front of a pseudo abandon shoe factory with graffiti about hookers and things like that and a guy comes running up and says what are you doing and i told them i said by the way you ever heard of michael marini says that guy runs women so this was not a secret in portsmouth. Everybody knew the rumors and had known somebody that knew somebody that had worked for him. It was going on that. He was running women all over the country. He was promising women drugs for sex. He had relationships with judges and with members of law enforcement all of it. So you know all of this is in the federal document we're talking about. It's a human trafficking right. Yes so so you know some people that this is an interesting distinction. Some people will say. Oh well these women know what they were doing. They were just trying to make money. Well if you talk to the experts it went one step beyond that went into trafficking because moran was holding over them a the fact that they were drug at. I've seen that. He would withhold their money or withhold their money or wherewithal to get trucks which under federal statute in ohio statute is a form of trafficking be. He was attentively promising more lenient sentences because he had friends in the legal system. I'd like to point out here that we reached out to michael moran as well as the prosecutors involved. Neither side got back to us with comment. So i talked to some folks getting those first initial people to talk. That was their big fear is they. They've these women just weren't afraid to go to jail. They were afraid for their lives and the reason they were afraid for the lives is the is the name of one woman. And that's making lancaster. Meghan was a known prostitute in the late two thousands in sierra county if you talk to her sister-in-law and you talked to other people who knew her she worked for. Mike moran meghan got hooked on drugs early on in high school shortly after high school. If you talk to her sister-in-law who has led the charge He started partying later in high school in and out of high school. And that led her into according to our sources into the circle of moran some moran would hire her out for bachelor parties and You know katie lancaster. Her sister-in-law even tell the story about her running into meghan worrying. Christmas lingerie in walmart. Picking something up on her way to a christmas party where she was the entertainment for a bunch of marines friends and she mysteriously disappeared. So we can't ever say she was murdered. Her car was founded blood on the door was left wide. Open half part in local fast food joint. Dare in downtown portsmouth and they've not found hide nor hair of her. And i can tell you. There are a lot of places in scioto county where you can hide about haulers and dips and in forests. It's it's wild country. They've really is wild country. The glaciers came through. Cut a bunch of stuff and it's it's beautiful but it's also wild country and a slew of women. Went went missing or got killed. That were addicted prostitutes Sex workers up in ross county in chillicothe which is two counties to the north since twenty ten more than a dozen women have either been killed or gone missing in ross county which is the county north of pike county which is probably an hour. Forty five minutes north of piped-in in chillicothe coffee so meghan a lot of people theorize the meghan might have been wrapped up in something that got those women killed play. There's a lot of thought. And there's a lot of Theory or rumor that no that that was separate from what happened to her and what happened to her points back to possibly michael marine that he would want to silence her for some reason. Yeah these are powerful men. Taking advantage of addicted unempowered women. And so how would you like. Michael moran in tying this back to the road incase michael moran and the situation in portsmouth. I think just speaks to this community. Which i think include piped-in as pe- you know these men in power are kind of doing what they want and when you look at sheriff reader who handled the investigation for the road and murder. He was also doing what he wanted. He now he's indicted on all these charges of Staff from the county. Yeah and so you know you can the parallel if you wanting to make a parallel to the road cases absolutely either. Hey you had ineffectual or corrupt or both law enforcement right. You had a community or a culture of lawlessness that has descended on upon many places in rural america. I will also say there's a major issue in small town. America with the quality and quantity of of law enforcement that happens there and the lack of accountability. Because nobody's watching. You might be wondering how the crimes and portsmouth fit into the road and family case while we probably know that michael moran and what's happening in portsmouth is not directly related to the murders. It does speak to distrust and lack of accountability in law enforcement. It's this idea that all these men in power from judges attorneys are involved in these crimes and their cover-ups it raises a pretty nervous question. Who do you trust if you can't trust elected officials and law enforcement. Furthermore this influx of drugs and lack of accountability from law enforcement and the haphazard way piked authorities tried to recover some seemingly very important. Evidence is basically exactly what reporter james pilcher outlined so well in his work. Yeah it seems really systemic in the area and specifically to peaked in and that impacts everything from the top. Let's stop here for quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for. David impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accept it. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. Luckily there's forward a new approach to primary care that surprisingly personal and refreshingly straightforward forward never makes you feel like just another patient backed by top rated doctors and the latest tech forward gives you access to personalized care whenever you need it. Using in-depth genetic analysis and real time bloodwork forwards top-rated. Doctors provide you with in depth insights to better understand your genetics mental and physical health. They then create custom easy to understand plans to help guide you to achieving long-term health with forward you get unlimited in person visits with your doctor and access to care anytime via the forward app offer. One flat monthly fee. It's time to stop accepting backwards. Healthcare and start moving. Your health forward visit go forward dot com today to learn more. That's go forward dot com your time for real summer. Fun is here some ditch the boredom and hit up your local mini dealer because the mini summer of driving is happening. Now get a new mini cooper. Hardtop two door starting at two twenty nine per month for thirty six month low mileage lease with two thousand nine hundred ninety nine due at signing visit mini us dot com slash east for details. That's many usa dot com slash east and see what it's like drive something this fine at the summer. Driving event with many Mike land from hoboken new jersey asked if there were any other personal stories. We'd heard from people along the way that hadn't made it into the podcast and here are a few that stand out to us. The relationship between frederico wagner and angela wagner her daughter-in-law has been the basis of a lot of conversation that it was a troubled relationship and that angela and her husband were vicious fighters and we even have heard from a very close source. That angelo would actually have to put a little sedative and billy wagner shakes every day because that would lower his temper and that's how she would survive the day. It just paints a picture whether this is true or not here. Angela enters the wagner family. She's feuding with her now. Mother-in-law the matriarch of the family frederica her husband. I don't know how tall he actually is. But he's a tall presence of a man and allegedly hot tempered so angela is trying to survive this new dynamic. Homeschooling her boys and sedating her husband's and feuding with her mother-in-law. It just paints a very complicated picture it does. And because i can be pedantic of allegedly drugging or allegedly but other stuff. We did here. Because i spoke to the same person who was a family member someone who was a family. This is apparently first hand account correct and part of that which i thought also painted such an interesting picture was like you said. The owners were known fairly widely to have get into it with fights and what this source said to us was that she was at the family home at the wagner family home and she commented that angela had very many decorative baskets all over and she said those who very beautiful and angela allegedly said well every time we get into a fight and billy needs to apologize. He buys me another basket. Because i like him. And so just picturing this house filled with decorative baskets each one emblematic of an argument. Just an interesting picture. Here's a rich question. And it comes from aaron from malvern new york and she asks how to sheriff reader play into the investigations and how mighty play into the upcoming court trials. He complicates this. I mean he's been accused of many things in court documents filed just last month. They alleged leader of misappropriating about fifteen thousand dollars and cease funds and borrowing six thousand dollars from employees which can be seen as coercion. The records also accused him of circumventing rules at auctions to improperly get impounded vehicles for his family so to his benefit additionally the court alleges that reader on june two thousand seventeen seized seven thousand dollars that prosecutors call quote possible proceeds of drug trafficking so these are charges that have gone for several years. And there's even new allegations that charge him and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity which is a first degree. Felony and prosecutors have long used the charges a way to attack organized crime figures and major drug dealers by seeking long prison sentences. So the fact that they're using this against a sheriff is interesting strategy. You know the issue is now that his character is being called into question. And according to sources we've talked to the criminal. Justice experts agree that the re that if reader is found of any wrongdoing it could pose obstacles for the prosecution in the trials against the wagner's reader was the front man of making everybody feel at ease. The investigation was being handled but frankly was kind of doing a message from the jump. Yeah i mean in theory you could look at. Every single case sheriff reader took the lead on and wonder what he was doing behind the scenes in order to make an arrest which would include the rodent investigation on the other side of that. Though you know what experts are saying is that the prosecution might argue to the judge on the case that readers criminal history isn't relevant to the wagner trials and shouldn't be heard by a jury and they'll do that by downplaying his role in the investigation and that becomes the case. Then it won't necessarily be a a death blow to the state's case. Another expert was quoted as saying in the press. Officers are human beings like everybody else. And so sometimes juries can weigh in on that and decide what kind of credence they want to give to. His behavior share frieder potentially jeopardize the investigation by having the rodents cars and mobile homes moved off site which attorney mike allen and investigative reporter jodi bar talked about an episode five so sheriff readers involvement is far reaching and it has the potential to affect in multiple ways. Not only during the investigation but moving forward with the trials yet. There was something else early on in the investigation that happened. That really did cause a star and that's the road an autopsy reports and for some reason. These were held up in being released to the media outlets which is something that happens occasionally in criminal cases but it garnered a lot of attention specifically with the wrote and case. Probably the reason why is oftentimes. Autopsies are not released to the public because there might be a tell or something very significant in those autopsy reports for example. This is just top of head not related to the wagner or in case at all if somebody had a certain tattoo marking or had been cut in a certain way that only the perpetrator slash killer would know then. Authorities don't want that information to be wildly known because it's something that would be helpful to know if there was a confession for example so if somebody confessed they would know that information so that is not entirely uncommon although in this case it seems that was not the reason. Why yet speculated that. It's not the reason why in this is this one actually all the way up to the ohio supreme court to outlets the columbus dispatch and the cincinnati enquirer sued the state for the right to the autopsies. The suit was filed against the pike. County coroner david kessler and that came after the dispatch was denied three separate times officially asking for the final autopsy reports. And what the dispatches claim was that the final autopsy reports are of great public interest and quote significant value to the dispatch and our news gathering activities authorities. Really were active to release the autopsy information. Arguing that the release could hinder the investigation. I wonder just too hard on this longer. Like wha what was the city like what was pike county really trying to protect in a four three times seems like a lot of times to continue to fight the release of this and now that we know what they say like what in there was so damning to the investigation. You know it's just seems like a lot. Well i actually spoke. With attorney jack rainier and he was one of the lawyers who filed the suit on behalf of the dispatch and he had some really compelling thoughts. You have to kinda wonder. In light of the troubled sheriff baltimore he got into what was motivating desire to keep things quiet because this is a pretty good example of in my view law enforcement overreacting and i say that kind of cautiously because you know it was multiple murders and a gruesome situation by. I think the idea of You know you just have to withhold as much information as you possibly can from the public and even maybe more information than you're allowed to With hall is to me an overreaction. And i think we saw that in this case you know that somehow you know of any piece of information out there somehow derail the whole investigation. I just i don't buy into that. The enquirer really argued that it was in the public's best interest to know what the topsy said and to review. I mean what we learned from. The autopsies is pretty important in terms of what happened to the road ends. We learned how many times they were shot. Where they were shot really did speak to how personal the crimes were. some of. These family members were shot multiple times in the face with a shotgun and so this was a drug cartel head. you know. it wasn't once and quick. It was personal and it was an overkill. Which is what we learned from the autopsies. When these autopsies would be released here we go again more questions with few answers and sure enough. That's exactly what happened. Thankfully we have this information and we could actually look at these autopsy reports in great detail. And i can speak for myself saying it was really dark and twisted when you really do see just how much to your point. Jeff of an overkill. This really was. Yeah it made me think. Like what releasing. This autopsy would do to the town of piked in in speaking to a fair amount of the residents and just the feeling of uncertainty. I don't know how it would if it was a good thing or bad thing. Because the people in piped-in we're thinking it was a drug cartel who did this Prior to the autopsy release and that created a sense of fear. But then i think after the autopsies release people started circling in on the wagner's and really thinking they did it which created a whole other set of problems in terms of this kind of small town justice that the wagner's faced whether they deserve it or not Creates a whole new problem for the sheriff's office who let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment after all that planning it's happening. Diy closet renovation is finally becoming a reality question is where do you put your while. You work cubes. Smart has you covered with month to month. Leases and self storage solutions that make it easier to get organized online or in person getting self storage is convenient and fast and because diy renovations can easily go over budget. It's great to keep smart is offering up to twenty five percent off your monthly rent singing by two before and hello to after with qb. Smart self storage visit cube smart dot com for more details. 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I think the likelihood i think it seems likely only because if this family allegedly did commit this careful careful planned out murders that they spent months planning why would they then be so careless and have someone else involved enough with the information that they could turn states evidence so to me it says if they kept it all within the family the necessarily it would have to be someone in the family. It's unknowable at this point. But that's what makes sense to me. Is it possible that it's rita angela. Wagner's mother because she would have been witnessed as some of these conversations. I mean it's possible that it's any of them assuming it's one of the four. Let's just play this out for a second. If courtney if you're correct in it's one of the four of the wagner's that are the accused to me. If one of them was going to fold george. The eldest son seems the most likely. And for that i say simply because he had the least amount of skin in the game if he wasn't fighting for his niece solely you know he wasn't. You know maybe supercharged by love. The way jake wise. He was in supercharged about protecting his children. The way angela may be was about her son jake in her granddaughter. We know the dads potentially had some sort of a confrontation leading up that could be charged by emotion. But that said he turns now. He's the one asking for solitary confinement and a bible the fact that they were trying to get george wagner off on bail very recently. That would speak to this as well. That as the informant be just through the basic ways that you would be released from prison on bail. They made that attempt. It was unsuccessful on the behalf of the defense but that is interesting strategy. By the way how shocking would this be if george wagner. The eldest son had to actually appear in court and testify against his mother and his father and his younger brother. Jake that would be shocking so while it is all speculation it is all possible and several reputable sources have said. It's not the most unlikely thing just as illegal reminder angela billy jake george wagner were charged with aggravated murder angela. Wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem and billy wagner's mother frederica work both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nukem was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty and our justice system presumes. Innocence until guilt is proven. Jody bar who we heard from throughout the course of this. Podcast is summed up. Well how the three of us feel about this case. So this is a case it i think about it. I'm pretty sure every day in again. That's why i'm very eager to hear from. I just wanna see this trial. I want to know more about what happened here. In if they really do. Have the right people. Sales like they do. These indictments are very linked to very detail. But that's only one side of this. I want to hear from the wagner's and see if they have an explanation because at the end of the day when when this the last trial is held in the jury gets to that point you know i would hope that the rodents family can walk out of that courtroom and know for sure that the people who did this are the people who go to prison for it. I can't think of a better way to Him down justice We've talked about this a lot. People ask why we work in crime investigations. In general i think truth is victims. Have a voice even after death and for us we really do want to share our deepest sympathy with the rodent family. I think the point of this podcast is to really angle towards shining light on the injustices that the rodent family faced and help bring a sense of closure in answers to the surviving rodent family. Well i think also in the wagner's finally do have their day in court. Our hope is that the rodents finally see justice. Massacre is executive produced by stephanie. Decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound designed by executive producer. Jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker. The piped-in massacre is a production of iheartradio. Kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. A management concepts deliver the training federal employees need for every stage of their career over two hundred seventy five courses taught online and in classrooms by expert instructors new leadership and acquisition courses available for two thousand and twenty one management concepts dot com. Love can make you stupid so think smart about dream diamond before you take the plunge visit. Movers diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds. At fair prices moves. Diamond is the region's first. 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Episode 9- Piketon Uncovered
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Las hills is a shocking story that uncovers a dark truth about law enforcement in malibu california listen to lost hills on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts brought to you by discover- discover something brighter. Welcome to the. Pike massacre episode nine. We're gonna do something a little bit different for this episode and go into the process of producing the podcast and also answer some questions. We've been getting over social media. I'm courtney armstong i work at. Kt studios with stephanie. Lie decker and jeff. Shane where finally together again distance but together yet because of covid. We've all been recording separately. But we're actually in the same socially distance space today for the first time in many months and we were sitting outside to keep safe one of the things. A bunch of people have asked about is how we came upon this case. And jeff do you wanna speak to that. Because you really were the impetus for yeah Kt studios we do a lot of troops crime programming and so we're always kind of on the lookout for interesting cases that are layered and complex. That could make for compelling television documentaries and you know when it first happened when the roads were first murder. Got a fair amount of attention at the beginning and as we've talked about pretty quickly the media kind of backed off when there weren't and that was kind of all there was to it and in terms of our knowledge and then in june of twenty eighteen. I read an article by jeff winkler. Who you've all heard during this podcast that he wrote for the outline long-form article about the crime. That really he did such a good job of laying out the story and what happened and the people involved and it immediately struck a chord with me. Just the human element of it all and how tragic it was and so reached out to jeff winkler and started the conversation about figuring out how we could make this some sort of long form documentary. Yeah so here's an excerpt of him. Talking about peyton and part of what drew is all in so i remember that very specifically was a big media story for about two weeks and you know everybody from all over came to cover it all of the world and then They left and they murder still unsolved. How did you end up writing because you wrote a pretty big piece. What was the Tell me about that. I wrote a piece about a year later. This was after all the sort of Fanfare media attention. When away. And i went to piped-in a year later almost to the day after about a year to the day of the killings and i wanted to see how the town was doing both the community and people were directly involved in it because at that point there was still Knows that specs. No one was really arrested or being prosecuted for the crime and it was the largest unsolved murder and ohio's history and the second largest mass murderer that year in united states after the pulse shooting in florida. We've been tracking this case since it happened. And when we first got involved the wagner's hadn't been arrested or weren't even being looked at as suspects by detectives so we pitched the idea of this documentary to rod esa and corey abraham who are executives at nbc universals oxygen network. And really the spirit of that. Was that this. Huge crime had occurred to the poor road and family and the killer was at large and there were still out there. Cut to the wagner's get arrested and our executives at oxygen. Call us and put us on a plane to pike's yeah i mean let's talk about we've spent. I mean i think between the three of us weeks in piped-in over the course of many trips and yet you guys spent more time there than i did so i'd be curious what your take on. It is my first time was when we were going to do the doc And i flew by myself. I think like thanksgiving and met jeff winkler. Who of course wrote this important article who we were just talking to brainstorming with. Initially this trip stephanie. That you're talking about was literally nine days. After the arrests you know they. The wagons were arrested on november thirteenth. Two thousand eighteen. She's on a plane on november twenty second and so it was really soon after that the team was there and i mean the town was an i think a form of shell shock at that point. I think the mood in the town was really palpable. There was something very big about what was happening around You know we've said this before. It is a very small town. Two thousand people so to have eight people murdered out of those two thousand. Every single person in the town is affected to some degree or know somebody six degrees of separation who was either on the wagner side or on the road inside so everyone was very affected and asking questions about this huge crime. At that time you know can can be hard. Because it's a sensitive topic and it seems as though the town of piped-in specifically in many of the family members of victims or on the wagner side that in previous incarnations had been treated very poorly by the press. So we want to be very sensitive about that. Yeah another thing jeff. Winkler talked to us about was his visit in two thousand seventeen kaz thing that stood out for me when i went to visit was just how human everyone was and i know that sounds a little trite but i mean i grew up in the ozarks in arkansas. So coming up in the ozarks and then spend time texas and tennessee This is where. I think the stories are in the coverage needs to be done more. And you know when the initial coverage happens you know it was just the sort of Footage in quotes from sad sort of backwoods people how they're perceived but everyone. There is full of faith in humor. And you know real real. Sort of american Mentality people there who had family members Still had it's sort of a grim humor About things so as a way of coping and People found faith in the local church. And you find these sort of avenues. That people from anywhere finds To grieve and to sort of move on and that was. I think that was the biggest thing when i went there. Definitely clear ended up becoming the greatest. We hopped in a car and drove. I don't know probably fifteen hours a day. Door to door to various peoples homes between kentucky and ohio jeff winkler. He knew this area. He'd been to piked and many times prior so he had already been there and had the lay of the land. I haven't we've been tracking this case from far far away. It's articles it's newspapers. It's news clippings you develop this relationship with the victims victims families and now the accused simply by staring at their photos excessively and obsessively so for me getting there was fascinating even just getting off the plane and renting a car to drive to piked in seeing the water tower as i had seen in so many photos and wanting to kind of understand better where the high school was and you know where everybody lived in. I remember being emotional and it's hard you know. We may prime shows for a living. But then sometimes when you're submerged in the place and you know what. The grief is that everybody is experiencing on the victim side and on the accused side. It's a town ripped apart and a to jeff's point there's not a single person at the gas station or at the walmart or at the local restaurant that isn't either a thought is in talking about it or thinking about it to your point about showing up and just knocking on doors as tv producers. Were used to being able to call people and book. Some of these shows over the phone. Pike i think is a little bit of an outlier you know. There's not a lot of cell service they are. People live in the hills. And it's hard to get someone on the phone and so the really the only way to do it was to show up. Knock on the door. You know with a smile and a box of cookies or a pie and just hope that people would answer the door and be let us in which luckily the town of piped-in was really for the most part very kind and receptive to us as complete outsiders being there. Yeah the first place. I went with rita and knocked on her door and she was lovely. Invited me right in you know. She was in fact wearing an ankle bracelet because she had recently been released into be truthful. At the moment i didn't realize how embedded she potentially was in this Investigation and the first morning i was there was the arraignment of jake. Wagner and Is an interesting experience. The courtroom was packed and completely silent. It was delayed by almost forty minutes. Was supposed to be nine o'clock. Start and i've never sat in a more silent room filled with people And it was very interesting experience. Seeing jake walk in and hearing his plea and sitting near members of the rodent family where people on both sides on his side where people on the road inside like what was your experience like yeah. People were definitely on both sides and the rodents was absolutely filled and the wagner side was much more sparsely filled. Doing that speaks to what we've been hearing. And what we've been trying to convey with this podcast. Which is that the road and family was so incredibly close and as we were told family over everything yeah absolutely and just the devastation that ripped through that family is a little hard to comprehend So people were definitely there. People were definitely very sad. Very tragic and but there were there showing their support. I remember when courtney was at that arraignment calling you just to see what was it like you know again. We have these visions in our head based solely on photographs of the wagner family take wagner being the youngest just to kind of be able to see him face to face air quotes or at least kind of look in his eyes to see. Does that look like a person who could actually commit something. So heinous in the truth is it's really an unanswerable. Question a lot of people understandably a lot of listeners have asked about where the children are. now yeah brantley. Who is frankie rodents. Who was frankie. Wrote and son is with his mom. We actually and i knocked on Her door in hopes speaking with her she declined which made complete science. But we we met brenton. He seemed like a great kid. He's smiling and laughing and in a few minutes we had with him seemed well adjusted. Which is a relief for us as human beings yeah just as a reminder. This is the small young boy who crawled under his. Dad's bed who he was sharing with his soon to be stepmother and waited for police to come. This is the kind of terror that this family was put through and to jeff's point when we saw him we felt a great sense of relief. That he he looked like he was thriving pilot. Who is hannah. Rodin's newborn baby is with her father. Charlie gilly shows the infant. That was just born five days prior to hannah wrote in. I would say for all of us to in. This probably would apply the listeners. To the fact that there were such small infants and young children left alive at the scene. Just kind of puts a dagger in your heart so Unfortunately sophia wagner. Who is the child of jake. Wagner and hannah road is in the care of child protective services and that's something i know the road and is unhappy about and i know specifically in the wagner side of it to ray is unhappy about. I think the feeling is that there are people who are blood related to sophia. Who could give her a really good home right now. So here's a little bit from d'auray about that so you're actually hoping takes a fia in and give her safe and comfortable home while all this is happening. Yeah absolutely. I mean. I'm i'm professional. I mean i take in children with trauma. That's my profession. That's what i like to do. I have two boys with me. now who have autism. They're excellent children. They are well up there. Proof in the pudding and we would have had a really good time so they couldn't even. You couldn't even see sophia. If you wanted to. I could not i wanted to know. Is she's loved. I don't want her to think anything's wrong. Something yeah that we've been asked about by a fair amount of listeners was how the podcast has affected the people that we interviewed and the people that have spoken out about it. And i think for the most part. It's been pretty positive in terms of who we've talked to in their experience in piked living in piped-in barb for example told us that she felt like the podcast represented the town well and story in a fair way. Angie montgomery who we talked about. her cousin. Curtis and johnny's case felt happy that we were finally shining light on something that people haven't really been talking about. That was a really important piece of this for us. Because we care deeply about piped-in first and foremost we've been there many many times. The town has been extremely kind to us at a time that not everyone has been not kind to them and making sure that we weren't coming across in any universe as being insensitive to the victims and the victims families understanding that there's a gag order understanding that anything somebody says could have impacts on upcoming trials it's important the stakes are actually extremely high. And where widely aware of that. But it's hard not to be emotional about it or to get emotionally attached to an answer or want to really understand. The is who's responsible for something so horrible and as a result i think every time we get involved deeper into this case we want to know more is possible that hopefully the mom isn't involved. This couldn't be if angela wagner was at the center of it is it because she was being forced to be so by her husband or is that just a lie or was angela wildly manipulative and coerced her boys in the spirit of defending her family. Defending her sophia. And if that's the case silly plan because now you're never gonna see your boys again. You've all been separated if convicted you'll never cross paths unless one of you on the other in court and with four people you know if indeed they are deemed guilty There's the question that we raised a few episodes ago about the informant and who that is there is an informant who's been written about and if it is one of the four you know if they've turned on the rest of their family. How that would bear out because You'd be hard for to manage that guilt for years and years. Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment. It's crazy how much we have to pay for outdated impersonal healthcare and even crazier that we all just accepted. It's time to face facts. Healthcare is backwards. 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Although we're desperate to now add for years four years separated there's zero chance at all. Four of them will stick to the exact same story. Not have the exact same amount of guilt like somebody's gonna crack. If that's the informant. It makes a ton of sense. And if that's the informant who was either trying to spare themselves or spare their family somehow that to me would make a lot of sense The fact that george wagner is requesting a bible and requesting solitary confinement for lengthy periods of time to me has always been a bit of a tell. You know jake yes. You're caught up if in fact. This is true that you need to have custody of your child and your heartbroken and the love of your life is dating somebody else and just had a baby with somebody else in. It's it's filled with passion. It's a passion kill. We may crime shows for a living. Oftentimes it's love or money or revenge defending your family. This checks all those boxes but that was then now add for years realizing you're not around your daughter any longer you've committed mass murder from which you can never go back. Somebody has to crack is my point. Just legal reminder angela billy jake and george wagner were charged with aggravated murder angela. Wagner's mother rita. Joe nukem billy wagner's mother frederico were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury. Nukem was also charged with forgery. All six of them pled not guilty and our justice system presumes. Innocence until guilt is proven. Can we talk about one thing. That has always i. I'm going to speak for all of us. But is the thing in my head that i can never get out of it in terms of whether or not we believe which frankly matters for nothing if the wagner's are in fact guilty or not. It's the hacking why were they hacking the rodent family for as long as they were according to the official documents that we have seen It has been reported about also that in fact they were busting into social media. Why in such a mass in such a way to. It's not as though it was. It doesn't appear to be trump if incorrect. It doesn't appear that. Say for example. Jake was hacking hannah. Rodents facebook because he was wildly jealous about her new relationship or that she had moved on and a new relationship. That is terrible to do under any circumstance but that seems like a young person's effort but it doesn't seem like that was the case. It was a fairly high level surveillance operation happening to all of them. And why what has been brought up in court is that it was deeply organized i mean. There were excel spreadsheets. Done hundreds and hundreds of entries about child custody. They put up cameras and they were in all of their computers and phones. Who's really elaborate. It was elaborate and they were. The wagner's were often together. So was this an activity just because they wanted to track. Hannah's relationship or like where were they tracking you know what makes the most sense on the surface and again allegedly is that they were tracking the coming and goings and tracking the property and understanding the dogs. It did seem as though big dogs were common. And we know for a fact that the rodents had attack dogs. Why didn't the dogs attack. That really does make no sense. Still however if you knew the dogs and you had been to the home many times as certainly jake would have been many times and you had an understanding of kind of how that worked and what their habits were. It does feel like an indication that the wagner's were up to no good if they were legitimately cyber stalking an entire family just months prior to that family is tragic. Death clinton from texas asked us. Why sophia wasn't with her mom the night of the murders and was it. Under unusual circumstances that she was picked up by. Jake wagner and yeah. It's up for debate. Why sophia wasn't with hannah. Jake wagner has admitted that he did pick sophie up a day earlier than he originally planned and that says she wasn't with her mom that fateful friday evening jake wagner said on the record i reckon we missed it by just a few hours and by he means the murders and so. We don't know what happened between jake wagner and hannah wrote in the night of the murders are why he told her he was picking her up early or why he did pick her up early but we do know she was supposed to be with her mom that night and for reasons we don't know jake wagner did take her home early and my expectation would be if we have text exchange exchanges just based on the fact that we know that people tech so frequently because the reception between phones can be spotty these rural places. There has to be some sort of a message. Saying i will pick her up early or requesting to pick her up early. I think that is another huge smoking gun the fact that sophia wasn't there that day and was picked up by jake off of schedule. He's changed his story on this a couple of times and i think this was a key place where there wasn't inconsistency about this topic but regardless it is suspicious and we disagree on that i think things happen and what seems the simplest explanation to me. Is that harrison had just had a bb days before and maybe she wanted to break with just her infant and not a toddler but something. We don't know jay from storm like asked us what happens. If the wagner's get off will get custody of sophia. I can only imagine that if the wagner's do get off they will attempt to get back to normal life and it's possible they would want custody of sofia but former prosecutor. Mike allen told me that because they were so closely linked to the murders. It may be difficult for jake wagner and to obtain custody. Which if he's innocent is tragic to think that because he was mixed up in this he wouldn't be able to get to raise his daughter. Here's an extra of that conversation with my gallon. so let's say jake wagner does dead off and has proven not guilty. He's to do you think he doesn't. He doesn't have a chance of getting sophia back. Probably has a chance of getting her back. But i think a judge would be hard pressed agreement custody for someone who was named as a defendant in a in a multiple homicide case even if he is acquitted. You just don't know But i know what that's not going to be decided. I don't think for for many years to come even. Let's he really didn't do it. And he's being held wrongly accused that he never gets his daughter against universities. Here daddy like that. Even alone is such a tragedy. Well if there's no evidence or or no strong evidence against him and he's acquitted and people are scratching their head thinking more. Why was he even indicted. Suppose he would have a chance then But you never know. I mean you never know what happens if it's criminal trial. The custody battle is one that will probably outlive the the criminal case That will probably go on for years and years and years. I mean obviously it was a contentious subject before the murders Again many believed that that was the primary mode of but that will continue to go on They'll probably be numerous court hearings for years until that's finally settled and that that's a shame because the children if they're not already hurt which of course they are. They're going to continue to be victimized. Probably for a long a long time to come susan from new vienna. Ohio asked us win. The trials are supposed to begin. And that's an interesting question. Obviously the wagner's did waive their right to a speedy trial But now because of covid. It seems that the trials have been delayed Billy wagner's attorney. Mark collins said that the trials have been put on hold angela. Wagner's attorney said something different. He said the trials were supposed to begin this fall which would be very soon if not imminent so it's unclear about what exactly is happening but we do know that right now. The pretrial hearings are happening. George wagner just had his last week so things are starting to move in the right direction. There was an attempt to be made to get him. released on. bond seems very different than somebody being held in solitary confinement with a bible waiting for their last days. These are death penalty trials. That's not to be underestimated. Four separate capital punishment. Trials are a big deal in one shirley effects. The other in any inconsistency from one to the next has to be paramount to all. I would imagine you know. I don't know the answer to that. That's a good question because they are four separate trials. So i don't know actually if one has bearing on the other i mean you know you'd assume the evidence some of it will be similar but it's it's all going to be dependent for example. I remember reading that. Dna was there is confirmed that the prosecution has dna evidence. Let that evidence is. We don't know but there's been made mention of it so you know the fact that there's differences in dna is going to change the course of those four trials completely. I just suggesting that those trials the i guess the narrative from each of the wagner members family members has to be pretty buttoned up. If there's one inconsistency between jake's story and his mom's story or their dad story that's a big deal. Let's stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in a moment after all that planning it's happening. Diy closet renovation is finally becoming a reality question is where do you put your things while you work cubes. Smart has you covered with month to month leases and self storage solutions that make it easier to get organized online or in person getting self storage. It's convenient and fast and because diy renovations can easily go over budget. It's great to keep smart is offering up to twenty five percent off your monthly rent sieg by two before and hello to after with qb smart self storage visit cube smart dot com for more details your time for real summer fund is here so ditch the boredom and hit up your local many dealer because the mini summer of dr event is happening. Now get a new mini cooper. Hardtop two door starting at two twenty nine per month for a thirty six month low mileage lease two thousand nine hundred ninety nine due at signing visit many usa dot com slash for details. That's many usa dot com slash east. And see what it's like to drive something this fun. At the summer of dr event with many another question we got was from coal from belfast ohio. Who asked us if something happens. And the wagner's are found not guilty. How do we think the town would react to them. Being back in in and would they be able to stay in town. And it's a it's a good question based on what we've heard and the reaction to the wagner's i personally think it would be really hard for them to stay in piped-in we to a wagner family member who wished to remain anonymous who gave us some pretty horrible details about what happened to them before the arrests dabbing said you frederick does have a lot of land in piped-in and they have a lot of ties to the community so they might. That might be where they would call home. Frederico wagner is also an interesting piece to this puzzle. By all towns she is the great matriarch of the wagner empire and she looks like such a beautiful grandmother would conjure up in your head or if he were casting a movie that you wouldn't believe somebody could look so perfect. She was as little black lace veil over her face. It sort of an overlay. But it's really a look that makes you think oh she could never be involved and she so beloved by the town and has done so. Many charitable things. That's a real cross section of opinion by so many some people say that she is a pure saint the kindest nicest the most genuine. The most charitable human that has ever walked the earth and other say. She's downright wicked. I mean listen. There's two sides to every coin. And i think both of what you said bears out. It really depends on what your perspective is. if you are one of the people who frederico wagner has helped along the way and provided food and assistance you're going to see the godly woman that so many people speak of. And if you are one of the people who were renting land that you were supposed to be buying at the end of it and then you allegedly had that land pulled out from under you and revert back to frederica. Then you're going to feel very very differently. Both things are true. Both things are true. That's what's so complicated about this. So you know. Discovery continues and these trials. I think would be set sooner than later. I would imagine the hope. The defense of the wagner is was trying to move the trial outside piped-in because getting twelve unbiased jurors might be challenging and they were ultimately denied that privilege. That's kind of a strike against the defense. What we have heard from the prosecution is that they are accumulating. A lot of evidence at this point and much of it. We can't get our hands on so there have been pretty tight. Lipped outside of the silencers. The vests the shoes that were bought at walmart Dna evidence that's said to be found to add one if not multiple crime scenes but outside of that they've kept a lot of things to themselves understandably so and that. I think we're going to hear about sooner than later. Because who goes i. I think is very interesting. Who do you guys think will be up. I you know. I'll i'll go just by the arraignment and i believe i'm correct that jake wagner was the first of the wagner's to be arraigned so i would bet jake and and a lot of the thought is that you know since custody. Allegedly is at the center. So as jack wagner. I was going to say that. The eldest son george wagner would be up first but wow what a shocker if jake wagner is up first because then to me. There's no question that his involvement with the rodents center of these trials at the bare minimum. Whether he did or did not do it. That one piece would follow all of the trials i would imagine. Reach out to us on. Our social media outlets with questions were an instagram facebook and twitter at piketty massacre. We look forward to answering questions in upcoming episodes Pectin massacres executive produced by stephanie. Lie decker and me. Courtney armstrong editing and sound design by executive producer jared aston additional producing by jeff. Shane andrew becker. The piped-in massacre is a production of iheartradio and kt studios for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to. Your favorite shows management concepts delivers the training federal employees need for every stage of their career over two hundred. Seventy five courses taught online and in classrooms by expert instructors new leadership and acquisition courses available for two thousand and twenty one management concepts dot com. Love can make you stupid so think smart about her dream diamond before you take the plunge visit moves diamond importers with a huge selection of quality diamonds at fair prices. Movers diamond is the region's first choice. At mervyn's you'll receive a free diamond education and no pressure to buy and with a leading designer rings from tacoma and verragio. You'll know why move was honored by washington post as best place to buy a diamond. Check our reviews at movers. Diamond dot com again. 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The Piketon Massacre
"True crime brewery contains disturbing content related to real life crimes. Medical information is opinion based on facts of a crime and should not be interpreted as medical advice or treatment listener. Discretion is advised welcomed. True crime brewery. I'm jill and i'm dick. In the early morning of april twenty second two thousand sixteen relatives of the rodent family in pike county. Ohio began to discover family. Members brutally killed in their own homes in all eight members of the rodent family were murdered including one minor. Sixteen year old christopher roden junior all of the victims had been shot to death. Three young children including a newborn infant were left alive. Investigators determined early on that. The killings were planned and carried out by at least two perpetrators who knew the family well but it took over two years to make any arrests. This crime scene investigation is the most extensive in the history of the state of ohio. Evidence of cockfighting and marijuana growth operations were found at some of the crime scenes but the motive may have been something as simple as a child custody dispute. Join us at the quiet end for the piked in massacre due to the methodical nature of these killings and the lack of forensic evidence at the scenes. These murders have been described as a premeditated and sophisticated ration- four people have been arrested and the death penalty is on the table. So this is a fascinating case that was recommended to us by christie. W so thank you kristie. It is fascinating a lot of people involved in this case. So try to remember who i'm talking about. Yeah well there's usually only two last names you're dealing with. Fortunately yeah so. The beer for this is called psychopathy and it was when it was gifted to us by two great listeners. From ohio caitlyn and sarah psychopathy is an ip a brewed by maitree brewing cincinnati. Nice hazy orange colour whitehead some. Lacing pretty beer mostly pine aroma little with the citrus mostly uphill taste some grapefruit nielsen grapefruit ryan. You know you get that kind of bitterness and this is a medium bodied beer easy to drink enjoyable to drink all right. Let's open it up. Okay dickey so. I want to invite you to the quiet end but as most people now were quarantined at home for the past several months so we haven't been recording at the quiet end of the bar but we do have a quiet end here in our little home recording studio but the problem is the only ones to talk to at the quiet. End are the dogs and a keith morrison poster on my wall we tough to have conversations with any of those folks. It is but at this point. I'll talk to most anyone or anything. And should i be worried that the dogs have been answering me lately. That's when you worry. I mean it's it's okay. It's one thing when you're talking to them but if they start talking back with you and your understanding what they say and agree with what they say. Gio well that's why. I think it must be all my head. 'cause they always agree. Well that's good. yes okay. So we've opened our beer here. You are sitting next to me. We've got the fire going in the corner. So how about you start this out. This is quite the story that any alon one. Yeah but picton is. A small town is located about eighty miles outside of cincinnati and it has a population of just over two thousand residents must of the residents live on farms or on country roads. They enjoy outdoor recreation and chips generally looking out for their neighbors. So you might imagine how shocking the murder of eight members of one family in two thousand sixteen frightened. The people piped-in so over the past sixty years or so factory jobs in the piped-in area faded away. Some families moved on to find better lives but the rodent family dug in their roots they lived in piped-in for three generations mirror family oriented and protective of one another. They were very close and they lived within a few miles of each other. Chris rhoden senior grew up in pike and after his parents moved there from kentucky. Now it's just over fifty years ago. After christina's father died back in two thousand eight. He and his eight siblings each inherited and equal share of the family's property. Yes and chris was one of the ones that stick around eight members of his family. Were kill shot execution style in one night at four different locations the victims ranged in age from sixteen to forty four and the only witnesses were. The three young children left alive at the crime scenes. I'll too young to identify any of the suspects bill. This was only like two or so three. I think you're not gonna get a good description of anything now. So the rodent family was quite well known in this tight knit community and for the most part pretty. Well liked dana. Lynne roden met christopher rodent senior when they were young and they quickly became high school sweethearts. They got married in nineteen ninety. Four family and friends. Remember chris a hardworking family man. Who was kind to everyone. He was an excellent carpenter and worked doing construction. At big bear lake resort. in the nearby town of lucasville he also went to car. Auctions bought up some used vehicles he was able to fix them up and sell them for a profit and that could be quite lucrative. You might be surprised how lucrative that could be. Why wouldn't be another can mature a good amount of money. Yeah if you can turn it over quickly make a couple of thousand each time. It also obviously has to be a car that people want yes. He seemed to be good at picking up here. So if i took out a nineteen sixty eight dodge dart. Nobody's going to buy that. Oh i don't know but put in a a challenger charger mustang. Yeah one of those muscle cars skirt. Yeah so chris. Seniors wife dana worked full time as a nursing assistant in assisted living facility. She was remembered as a mom who looked after everyone else's children as well as their own her friends of described her as a social and really fun loving woman. Dana and kristen your head. Three children clarence roden. Who went by frankie. Hinna may roden and christopher roden junior so after years of marriage. Kristen diana's marriage actually fell apart and they got divorced but they did remain friendly. Chris moved down the road and lived with his brother. Gerry in fact. Chris purchased a house for dana that was located on the same property as his and union hill road and they continued to co parent and grandparents seemed to get along just fine. It sounds like they're did. Didn't have any major disagreements or anything. Now they're all. This child was twenty. Year old frankie and he lived nearby with his fiancee hannah hazel gilly. And their son. Frankie and hannah hazel. Were hoping to get married soon. And they had long term plans to have a large family of their own like his father. Frankie was a hardworking man. He really enjoyed the outdoors particularly hunting and fishing but his passion was demolition. Derby in his little brother. Chris junior loved to work on cars and they like to drive in the derby at the local fair. Yeah hannah hazel had recently graduated from high school in her plan was to start college and studied business. She loved children and had plans to open her own daycare after she got a business degree. Frankie also had a son from a previous relationship three-year-old brantley and he and hannah hazel had a six month. Old son named ruger. Ruger lee roden chris. Junior known as little. Chris was known to be the wild one and he was the baby of the family. He was fiercely independent and he got his driver's license as soon as he possibly could. And as the first kid in his group of friends to get his license he was very generous and eager to give them rights. So that was nice. A lot of the kids benefited from that. Because this is the country schools not necessarily close to where you live. Sedan chris. seniors middle child another hanna. Hanna may roden was only nineteen years old when she was murdered. She had given birth to a daughter just four days before the murders. Wow yeah a newborn. So back in the summer of two thousand ten hannah road and celebrated her thirteenth birthday. She began dating an older boy. I was seventeen year old. Jake wagner and jake was crazy about hannah and their relationship. Move quickly when hannah was just sixteen. She and jake made plans to start a family right away. Her parents went thrilled at first but they did love. Jake and as i thought about it. Dana and chris senior had married. When they're very young. Now i know you're going to say but they're divorced but the marriage had lasted over twenty years right so it was pretty successful and they were friendly as well. Yes so even post divorce. They remained on pretty decent terms. Yes and they were together through the raising of their children and everything so i would say it was successful overall. Considering how early they married but that seems to be a pretty common thing. Among the people in the story may be in the region his marrying young and having babies young chooses his crew. Yeah so in two thousand thirteen. While hannah was still a high school student. She gave birth to her and jake wagner's daughter sophia. And although this could have been easy. Hannah was very attentive and happy mom. She even brought her daughter sophia to the high school once in a while to show her off because she was still a high school student. Hannah stayed in school while jake worked as a truck driver with his brother. George wagner shake was an attentive parent as well. he provided for hannon's sophia spent quite a bit of time caring for sophia and was very protective of them. Both but along with that protectiveness. He may have been too controlling with his wife and there would also be rumors and suspicions of domestic abuse in the relationship so when they were a couple. They split their time between the two sets of grandparents. Angelo wagner jake's. Mom was excited when sophia was born and she went out of her way to help with babysitting and finances in twenty fifteen. Hannah and jake set a wedding date and had their rings tattooed on their fingers. So i know. I'm older but that's an unusual thing for me. Tattooing your rings give. It works in pupil with a we. Have i guess. I always just thought people did that after they were together for a while and just got tired of wearing rings but to do it from the beginning. That shows major commitment. Can't just take it off or you can amputate a finger but it wouldn't wanna do that. Astros yeah yeah. And i i guess something like you said i'm getting old. Yeah so. Hannah was really close to jake's family especially jake's mom angela and angelo with leaders say that hannah was really like a to her so if we go back to the summer of twenty fourteen. Hannah jake's daughter. Sophia was about eight months old. When the wagner's began doing some strange things they hacked into the rodent family computers phones and social media accounts. They also set up surveillance cameras to watch the family's comings and goings. It was really as if they were trying to get familiar with the family members routines as well as their homes and their property so a couple questions. I guess What drove him to do this. We know the murder surveillances stuff and we don't know i think personally they were planning for the murder but we'll get into that. I really can't see any other reason other than maybe being a controlling boyfriend. Your mr so weird. It's very weird. And these are two large families For the most part got along pretty. Well together yeah. They had a lot of interaction so they had a granddaughter in common. But i've been doing this stuff. This just as weird yeah. It was quite a surprise to everybody when they heard about it. Re- other part of that would be if the rodents found out about this right or do they not ever find out about a weed out now weed out now so much for that question. Well we'll talk about the possibilities as we go through this but we really don't know for sure either way because we haven't had any trials yet. This is not resolved trolls who still in the horizon when they're going to start right. Everything's kind of delayed. But kenneth rodents daughter kendra told one reporter that they were cameras. Set up around chris. Seniors home by the wagner's in twenty fourteen now remember. They weren't killed until twenty sixty right. This is a rodent who knew boat cameras again. I guess i could find that out. After the fact yes but back in twenty fourteen when these cameras were put up hand jake were still a couple. They were planning to get married and still apparently very much in love. So why would the family be watching the rodents and you know even planning to murder. The family members back in two thousand fourteen. We don't know siri odd. Yes so according to jake. Who submitted a signed affidavit in two thousand sixteen he and hannah had broken up in april of twenty fifteen. So that's pretty much exactly a year before the murders. He claimed that hanna broke up with him because she thought he was working too much so he had really wanted hannah to just be a full time. Stay at home mom and have his babies. But hannah wasn't ready to do that. She's so young. And according to anonymous sources close to the couple. Jake was not at all okay when she broke up with him. He was very upset. Very angry about this and he worked really hard to try and get back together with hannah. He did everything he could to convince her to get back together but she wasn't having it and there are things that point to the wagner's becoming obsessed with getting sole custody of sofia. After and jake had broken up so we weren't content was half custody. I don't know if it was half. I think it was more like weekends. And things like that but they weren't happy with it. We wanted more if they couldn't control hannah. They definitely wanted to control sophia and her life so in july of twenty fifteen hannah posted lyrics from a song about domestic abuse on her facebook page. So here's an indication that may be. Jake was abusive with her. The lyrics were. He slowly isolates her from all of her friends. She works really hard but he takes all of it. And after that quote she wrote and domestic violence live a happier life. So the line seems to imply issues with jay wright gerda agha's but there's no proof that hannah was referring to her relationship with j. so it wouldn't be evidence of anything. No now just to backtrack a tiny bit in may of two thousand fifteen after hand split up handed her brother frank. He's best friend. Charlie gilly charlie also happens to be frankie's fiancee. Hannah gillies brother told you it was complicated for my brain. But i think i got it. Yeah now in the beginning this relationships in pretty ideal charlie was very well liked by the rodent family and he was just so excited to be with hannah. He often posted photos of him in hand on facebook and proclaimed his love for her. Yes so. I would imagine that jake did not like this. Sure he didn't. This was like throwing it in his face almost although by the middle of summer july or so hanan shortly broke up so it was a fleeting relationship. It was but she didn't go back to jake either. No moved on. So according to jake thou he and hannah had continued a physical relationship all through that summer but later that summer handed another young man named corey holdren and according to those who jake well. This just crushed him. He was very much in love with hannah and once she broke up with charlie he thought well it's going to be us right but then she found another guy so he was really upset to hear that hannah was dating someone new and he just couldn't seem to understand get it through his head why she wouldn't take him back. He promised her everything even crying and begging for her to take him back but she decided she was done so after the tears and after finally accepting that hannah wasn't going to change her mind. We believe that jake went from being sad to being will remember just wondering. Here's more to the idea. Some domestic violence is s. A no way. She's going back with them. It seems to me something more is going on. It does a lot of people feel that way. It's just not definite moreno. Yeah so another thing which was quite a shock was that august. Hannah learned that she was pregnant again. She wasn't sure if the father was. Jake charlier corey but when jake learnt about the pregnancy he got excited. He was really hopeful. He offered financial help to hannah and promised to raise the child as zone. No matter who the bio dad turned out to be so he and his mom actually went out and bought a crib and other baby items for this new baby. But hannah said she still didn't want to be with jake so he was very upset about that again. He just seemed certain that this was his baby. Even though it would turn out that that baby was not jake's so according to the indictments the wagner began plotting these murders months before if not years before investigators believed the planning began at least on january first of two thousand sixteen and that means at least four months of planning at least four months at least now by that fall and winter. The wants civil co-parenting relationship between hannah and jake was deteriorating. Hanno is limiting jake in his parents visits with the two year old daughter. Sophia and a custody battle began and fact and april of two thousand sixteen just a few weeks before the murders jake and his father tried to convince handed assigned custody papers now. What hannah didn't know. Was that these were forged papers angela. Wagner's mother rita joe. Nukem was a notary. But she didn't sign the papers. She told a grand jury that she did but she lied at the request of her daughter. Angela thus jake's mom right so this was jake's graham reader joe ca- but despite all this going around hannah refused to sign the papers anyway so overnight yes so afterwards jake told hanna and some other family members that he was going to kill her so that significant would take that as a threat. Yeah you know people say oh people. Just say that all the time when they're angry. But i have to say even when i'm really angry i i rarely threatened to kill anyone. I threatened to kill people on tv. When i'm watching politics. But i never say i'm gonna kill you to anyone and i don't think i ever have so when anyone says i'm going to kill you. I would you know at least take it fairly seriously. Oh absolutely yeah. So according to court records this forged document appointed guardian for sophia. In the event of jacob and hannah's deaths which is strange because this is what a nineteen and twenty two twenty three year old kid so they really shouldn't be planning so much for their deaths. No when police searched the wagner home after the murders the document was found and it was in a box belonging to jake's mom angela wagner and the box was labeled important stuff narrows it down yes so the document had been forged on april third three weeks before the murders and this is going to be some strong evidence for prosecutors. I think in. Mid april of two thousand sixteen chris senior billy wagner had some kind of argument and they had a falling out over this argument but don't know what the disagreement was about but there is definitely some tension between the two families. Yeah now here is where we were talking about. Did the rodents find out about the cameras. And the surveillance and i have to wonder if that's what this argument was about but apparently chris senior and billy wagner whose jake stat had done some business things together. I'm not sure what it had something to do with the cars possibly but they had this disagreement which became pretty much a falling out. And you have to wonder what caused that. Yes you are right on an april seventeenth twenty sixteen. Hannah gave birth to her second daughter named her kylie so she didn't list dad on the birth certificate. Remember there are three possibilities. The custody battle over sophia was continuing as well and hannah may was now a mother two daughters she had two year old sophia and she had newborn kylie. They were living with hannah's mother and they shared custody of sofia with jake wagner. Sixteen year old chris. Junior the little brother lived in the same house and he was a freshman at the local high school. So i'm not sure why he was. A freshman at sixteen may had been held back. A year started late. Not sure but he was just quite a character. I guess a real fun loving kid. He the wild one he was the wild one and these people were allowed into outdoors things and the demolition derby road. So it's a whole different lifestyle. I would think school was in high on his list. Well i don't think he was planning for college if that's what you mean. You're probably not. And he had a lot of things to do. And i'm sure he had a pretty good idea of what he was going to do as an adult because he'd started out young working on cars and things like that so as hannah was celebrating the birth of her second daughter kylie. It really seems that the wagner family was busily planning the murders of eight rodent family members. The wagner's already owned several guns. Of course not unusual when you live out on a farm but they began making their own silencers. So it's likely that those silencers were used on the night of the murders here. One of her letters. The gut This past week or so said that silencer is a misnomer. Yeah suppressor share which is point that out. Well yes it doesn't make them silent muffles the sound but i think the common word for it has been silencer. You're right so even though. The term is an entirely accurate. We get the gist redo and we always appreciate a little education. So that's cool tail now. According to the indictment there were items purchased at walmart by the wagner's that were used in the murders jake's brother george wagner. The third made several purchases in the months leading up to the murders. His purchases included a pair of shoes material to make brass catchers ammunition. A magazine clip a bug detector not insects. Now we're talking about recording devices detector. They're kind of book and parts used to make silences for their guns or suppress suppressors. Brass catchers our bags hook onto the site of guns and they catch spent cartridges. So with this type of gun each time the trigger is pulled a cartridges objective from the gun and abreast catcher at collect them so he wouldn't find any evidence being left behind right you wouldn't have any cartridges or case six whichever you want to call those so the indictment mentions that a particular pair of shoes were purchased from walmer in the theory. Here is that the wagner's were attempting to frame james for the murders. So james was a significant person of interest because after his sister. Bobbie jo found. Two dead bodies and chris seniors home. She had called her in daynuss brother. James manley and james said then rushed over and discovered the dead bodies of hannah and dana. Roden in the trailer down the road. James shoeprints were allegedly found at this crime scene but just one day before the murders the wagner family drove over two hours to a specific walmart so not the local one to buy a particular brand and size of shoes and these would match the type of shoes known to be worn by james manley so this is such a complex plot. Isn't it if it wasn't so evil. An awful it would almost be impressive but the police were able to get possession of the walmart surveillance footage which shows them buying those shoes. James lead the nearest dana and it was predictable that he would have been one of the first people to come upon the victims that morning. So also when you think about the way that the police initially reacted to james the wagner's actually came pretty close to successfully framing james for the murders if they in fact did these murders remember. They are assumed innocent until proven guilty. I am okay now. Dana rudin sister named bobby. Joe manley had been aspect. Chris senior to feed his pets on the morning of april twenty. Second hannah had a newborn to care for and christina. Newly dana would be busy taking care of her and their granddaughter. The bobby jo agreed and she drove christina's house just after seven. Forty five am that morning when she walked into the house. She saw this bloody mess. The interior was covered with blood and she saw to blood-soaked bodies that turned out to be chris. Rhoden senior and chris's cousin gary roden. Yes so bobby. Joe called nine one one and this was recorded to have come in at seven fifty one. Am she's badly shaken of course and she described the crime scene saying that the two men inside of the home looked like they had been badly beaten and they were dead. Bobby joe gave the dispatcher the address and they told her to walk outside of the house in stay there so before. The first responders arrived. Bobby joe into a second home next door on the property where frankie roden his fiancee. Hannah hazel gilly had been living frankie's three year old son. Brantley answered the door. He's covered with blood and discombobulated. I guess is a good enough word. Bradley told bobby joe that his father was playing zombie. The family was fans of the walking dead. So bentley would be likely to interpret that way. Well i guess he sees all that blood but the let's three-year-old watch that show. I think it would be really scary for them. But that's not the point of the story. No bobby joe. Found frankie roden and his fiancee. Hannah hazel shot to death. Frankie had been shot three times in the head and hannah was shot five times altogether and they were both in bed with their six month. Old child who was unharmed but laying there with his two dead parents. It's a horrific thing to imagine. Sure is so now. There were two murder scenes in four victims. So bobby called her and daynuss brother. That's james manley. James went to dana's home to check on her once there. He found dana. Enter nineteen year old daughter. Hannah shot to death in her trailer and this was just about a mile down the road. They had been shot execution style. Dana was shot three times in the right side of her head and wants beneath her chin. Hannah was shot twice in her head. Lying right beside her newborn daughter kylie fortunately kylie was not harmed thankfully and kind of suspiciously. Though hannah's three year old sophia was staying with her father. Jake wagner that night now. I guess that was a day earlier than he usually took the child for the weekends. So we don't know if it was his idea to pick her up earlier or maybe hannah just wanted him to because she had a newborn to deal with. We don't know you're trying to be a nice guy if he's innocent okay because if not. He took his daughter so she wouldn't be there. Yeah so as the news of the first death spread people in piked and began to worry about little chris. Chris rhoden junior because he hadn't shown up at school that morning. So of course. Everyone feared that he had been a victim as well. Law enforcement went searching for chris junior and he was found hours later in the same mobile home. Where's mother and sister. Had been killed dana and hannah so chris junior had also died from gunshot wounds to his head. This is just something that would be hard to believe if you lived in that community. This is this little rural farming community of thousand people and you have eight murders. Yes but we're going to find out. There were some other suspicious murders not to this extent not eight people but there were some other ones. That were a little bit strange litter that afternoon. Donald stone found his cousin. Kenneth roden shot to death in his camper which is a few miles away. So this is about seven hours after bobby jo. I called nine one one. Donald had heard the news about the murders of the rodent family and he decided to check on his cousin who has the forty four year. Old kenneth kenneth is chris seniors older brother when he got to the house. Donald found kenneth dead with a gunshot wound in his face. His body was covered with dollar bills. That look like they've been thrown over. But was this just an attempt to make the murder. Look quick drug hit well. I don't know i'm not sure. What the denominations of the money were. But i'm just wondering why would you throw money on. Someone certainly take only one of money thrown on. Yeah and if it was a robbery you wouldn't do that so i personally do wonder if this was just a way to make this murder looked like it was a drug hitler's. Hr seems like something. You'd see an drug movie. Care are breaking bad episode. Something you'd see her dream up of our would represent the action of a gang member. Yes exactly without any basis of reality. Yeah i have no no reality to base that on your right dig way. You smashing your headphones to bits. I am just so frustrated listening to ads. Why can't i listen to my favorite podcasts. Without those annoying ads well. I can't help you with other podcasts. However true crime brewery now comes commercial free for our tigr members. That's right if you subscribe it any level you get to listen to all of our new episodes commercial-free and this is in addition to our bonus episodes each month. Plus you get some great. Tcp swag mailed to you when you join. At least i can listen to true crime brewery ad free. I really wish other podcasts would do that. And jill yeah. Do you know where the glue is. Just pounded up my last pair of headphones off So the evidence showed though that most of the victims had likely been asleep when they were shot today. But chris rodent. Senior was probably awake when the perpetrators began their attack because he was shot in the forearm which was likely defense wound and he was shot a total of nine times. More than anyone else plus. He had a lot of bruising as if maybe he'd been a fight his cousin gerry was shot twice in the head and once in his face and one of the shots left a muzzle stain or a gunpowder mark because the gun was pretty much touching his temple super close to it at least which is like an execution style killing also would fragments found on christina's body indicated that his body had been dragged across the floor and police believe he was away and confronted by his killer. The multiple shots in the close range of the shots really indicated a certain degree of rage and the police believed familiarity with the victims investigation into the murders included speculation that there could be connected to the demolition derby. Maybe marijuana growing and selling even cockfighting i guess all possibilities on the table. Yes yes in late april two thousand sixteen the attorney general of ohio. Mike dewine gave an update on investigation at a press conference. He confirmed they had found marijuana plants in three different locations enough to suggest a grow operation. Two hundred plants were found into three homes on union hill road and the value of these plants was at least four hundred thousand dollars. Investigators also found equipment and chickens point into involvement in cockfighting. Then that makes them a little less likable. But you know. The lifestyles of the rodents didn't reflect that they were big drug growers or sellers. They lived in these modest mobile homes and drove average vehicles. It is true that the state of ohio was going to legalize. Marijuana for medical use after the legislation was passed in two thousand sixteen. So it's also possible that the rodents were growing the plants in preparation to sell them for medical use after the law was changed. But you know after that was announced in a press conference the empathy for the rodent and family fell off in the community now. They thought well. These people were drug dealers. They had it coming in fact donations to help the family. Bury these eight family. Member stopped coming in. Even there was one business who had made a donation or promise of a donation who cancelled it. Once he found out there were drugs. But you know the killings looked like they could have been a cartel hit the mo matched what would be expected cartel members came up from mexico. Killed eight people and then disappeared before the bodies were found and for years. Marijuana was grown in mexico and transported for selling in the us but with marijuana legalization increasing in the us. It's become easier to grow and process marijuana inside the country. Just sell it right inside. It eliminated the risk of crossing the border with the drug. There were rumors that it was the sinoloa cartel that was responsible because they did have connections in ohio. The da had documented the cartels ties to ohio for over a decade in fact finding large marijuana grow operations all around pike county in two thousand ten. The da had found over twenty three thousand plants in encampments where people lived in tents grew the marijuana so as the investigation progressed into these murders. Investigators did find at the road and family had connections to growing some pipe. So maybe they had done something against the cartel which could provide the mode of and help find a pupil responsible other cartel was well known for being brutal and stealthy killers gotten past watchdogs and security cameras and they left behind no trace of themselves at the crime scenes. The killings were execution style and not crimes of passion. Yes it definitely seemed that way and we're not sure if there was actually no trace because of course none of this is public yet but i would think that if the watchdogs didn't bark than it probably somebody that was known to them exactly not cartel members. Yeah i don't know that they didn't bark necessarily but they didn't attack and they seem to let whoever was by them. Were killed survived right right. That's another thing is the cartel would probably kill the children and the dogs as well execution style killings are usually done up close and at point blank range but some aspects of the killings are not what is usually seen in drug hits like. It's not normal for the cartel to kill so many family members in one location so far away from the mexican border. The biggest problem with the drug related killings theory is the fact that the kids were left unharmed. Leaving the children. Alive pointed to someone with some kind of morality some small spec somewhere right right. There had to be a little bit of empathy and compassion for these innocent children but none whatsoever for adults or even for the sixteen year old. Chris junior the only ones left alive where the one so young that they wouldn't be able to identify the killers and the consensus from those who understood the cartel was that they would have killed everyone including the baby's even the four day old so despite this evidence of a grow operation the police set aside that cartel theory fairly early on yom larue impressed with as a theory. Okay so the people impact and were shocked and terrified after these killings who say word in his could be a killer or killers amongst them the up close and personal nature. The killings led investigators to consider at the rodents had been killed by someone. They knew someone who is angry with a rodent family and wanted to eliminate them but investigators had no idea who is responsible or what the motive could have been but early on. They focused on the family security system. The footage didn't show anything so someone had to have turned it off or something. The romans also had those attack dogs and the dot and the attack dogs didn't attack. So that makes you think maybe the dogs were familiar with the killers and especially jay could actually live there for quite a while would know those dogs quite well. You would dana. Rodents sister bobbie. Joe manley was the first on the scene who discovered dead bodies and then her brother james manley was there so we know that people who discover a crime scene are in the first suspects because sometimes a killer will call the police and pretended just innocently. Come upon a dead body. But after several interviews with james bobby joe law enforcement was not convinced that they had any reason to be there that morning but bobby joe insisted they had nothing to do with those murders. Schutte and leonard manley. Who were the parents of dana. James and bobby joe angry and frustrated that the police were looking at james and bobby joe. The idea that any of the family could be suspects. Just didn't go. Go over well with them because bobby joe is the first one to find the bodies of kenneth and chris senior. She was the focus of the police suspicions. She did finally agreed to take a polygraph exam and infection took several and was finally eliminated as a suspect and then her brother james manley became the main focus of the investigation especially once investigators learned that james had been texting with jake wagner at two. Am on the night of the murders now. The context of the text is not known to the public. But james did fail a polygraph. He was released but police suspected his involvement and decided to keep an eye on him and what he didn't know as they also had those shoeprints that matched his shoes so at the police did is they put a gps tracker on james truck and they followed him but he found the tracker and removed from his truck and after doing that they charged him with tampering with evidence and vandalism choose both of these charges were for removing the device from his own truck. Which i just can't see how that's valid but six days after that arrest the charges were dismissed mortgage if it wasn't valid. I don't think it's something you'd go after someone for. But it was a way to get him in there and get him to talk more sure but the police had found no evidence of james involvement in the murders and they also found no motive for him to be involved in it. It was possible there was only one killer but the evidence was really pointing to more than one. The killings were definitely planned premeditated and they did show a certain level of sophistication the pike county. Sheriff charles reader told the media that he was convinced there had been more than shooter. Investigators took the property of the victims as evidence. This included their mobile homes vehicles and farm equipment these restored in a warehouse that was an old chemical processing plant. Now interesting side light here. After weeks of surveillance at the warehouse a local news network ran a report about the inadequate security at the warehouse. Quitting to the report reporters camped outside the warehouse three weeks and saw no sign of any officers or security people and in fact. The main gate to the warehouse was left open. Because of this any evidence that would have been stored. there probably wouldn't be admissible in court is is too many ways to contaminate it. Well yeah these mobile homes were in the parking lot area this big parking lot surrounding the warehouse. So all you'd have to do even if the gate was locked as jump it and you could plant something in one of the vehicles or the houses or you could take things so. This was just terrible. Terrible police work to do that. You're sure was so that didn't look good and the ohio criminal bureau of investigation came in and put together a task force and this included one hundred officers to investigate these murders the f. b. i. Helped as well and the. Da did but after a year they were no further along in solving these murders at all and the locals were just terrified that the case would never be solved and that they were living with killer among them as the investigation dragged on the townspeople became more reluctant to speak with police because they were afraid they were afraid they might become the next victim and their confidence in police was not very high faith in the police waned as time passed in the killers remained free residents believed that if the murder of eight people in their own homes couldn't be solved their own lives. Were in danger and the police wouldn't be able to help them. Why you think that way. Yes certainly leonard mainly told the police that the killers had been familiar with the roads with their homes and with their property he felt felt. The kill is headed. No the family because the dogs had not attacked and there are no signs of forced entry into the homes now lennon claimed that his daughter dana had no part in the marijuana grow operation then it was his feeling that her name was just being sullied with all the others painted with the same brush as they say shah now just six days after the murders jake wagner filed for custody of severe. This was a pretty odd and suspicious thing. It normally takes months together the documentation to file for custody so this filing early certainly suggested pre-planning and advance knowledge that hannah would be deceased around the same time angelo. Agnew told jake that he should put together a gofundme page to help the custody expenses. He did that and he says. Go on the page of twenty thousand dollars. His personal message on this page read. These are not expenses. I supposed to have. I supposed to be able to spend time with her and give her happy. Childhood severe naive just asking for enough to settle the fees that we acquired due to the horrific tragedy to her. Mommy i hate seeing my daughter cry. We went to get our lives back. So what did you think of that. No now even if he was innocent. You don't like it. i like you. I don't like the go fund me stuff to begin with. Yeah but i mean there are some genuine cases. This one doesn't seem that genuine to me. The wagner family was quite well off onto land. Yeah so that wasn't an issue. It was more like a means of getting people. Feel sorry for yeah. I kind of get that vibe. As well and then the cash wouldn't hurt either. Run by a lot of people were offended by this gofundme campaign especially people who believed that. The wagner's were responsible for the murders. They complain about jake. Having the gall to ask for money but jake was given custody of sofia and he did do his best to present himself as a sympathetic character and there were some people who believed him like close to half of the people in the town. They saw him as a single dad with these big legal bills and a new job that paid half of what he had been making so he was living closer to sofia but he still had to make a daily commute to cincinnati which was a two and a half hour daily. Drive so poor jake. I have some sympathy form. If he's innocent bert you're right but i just don't like the way he's gone about it. Well there's probably a lot of things about jackie wouldn't really liked. Probably not further probably is now at the one year anniversary of the murders. The church held a vigil. Were hundreds of people showed up. Residence voiced their fears about the killings and worried that the case would never be solved and the anniversary brought more attention than media and the media obviously pushed for more details from police. Some information at head and kept confidential then became public and the autopsy results were released now. Though the reports were heavily redacted the number of shots used to kill. The family members certainly showed overkill. Oh absolutely yeah. According to the report there was one victim with one gunshot wound one victim with two gunshot wounds to victims with three gunshot wounds to with five one with four and then of course chris senior had nine gunshot wounds so this does show some overkill. Choose to in may of twenty seventeen. The farm of local resident bernard brown was searched by the police. This was a longtime friend of the wagner. Family jacob stored some cars and other things on the property. The investigators took a small utility trailer that was owned by the wagner's from his property. According to brown jake wagner had dropped some items off at his property about a week before the search was done by early may the wagner family members had been interviewed several times by investigators. Angela told a family member that the police just wouldn't leave her family alone and community members were accusing and harassing the wagner's when they're out in public in town. According to angela a woman had thrown a bottle header hitter in the back and the community turned against the wagner so angela went on social media and claimed that her family was innocent. Yeah i'll read her post okay. I have decided to tell you all a couple of things about me and my family. What has happened to us in the past few weeks has been devastating and it will follow us for the rest of our lives. Hannah was a daughter to me. I loved her dearly. Her law still hurts to this day. Especially when i see her every day in my granddaughter. We did not do anything to hurt. Hannah's family we want justice just like everyone else. It is real disturbing. If you really want to know what you guys are doing. Your accusations now will hurt sofia later in life when she really understands what has happened. Let's try to find the real monsters. Who done this. So evangelists really innocent than it would have been really terrible for her to be shunned and accused by people in her town. I'm totally on board with that. But if she is guilty the fact that she and her family were just going about their lives as they had before. The murder shows hubris and a lot of coldeze. Many people believe that angela was the brains behind these murders. As well she had even been described as smug when filmed at some early court hearings so shortly after her facebook post the wagner family sold their farm hacked up some of their things and moved to alaska. They didn't hide their whereabouts from the authorities but still a lot of people saw the move as an indicator of guilt that october. Investigators rated three of the wagner's former properties to do a search. The task force had received hundreds of tips but none of them had come to anything. So investigators were really hitting a dead end with no evidence at the scenes and some differences in the killings at different locations. Leads were very few and far between and the case was really just going cold at this point no one. Investigators searched the wagner property the townspeople speculated about whether the wagner's were involved in the murders unlike most pike county families the wagner. Pretty well off the matriarch of the family was seventy six year old fredrika wagner. She owned over seventeen hundred acres of land that was valued at over four million dollars. G also owned a prosperous three hundred acre horse. Farm named the flying w. so flying w. farm is an equestrian farm where they raise special horse. Breeds frederick and the wagner. Family were also known as generous to their employees. She gave back to the community quite a bit. She was active in the church and she owned rental properties. Well george billy wagner was. Well liked pike ten and his wife. Angela was known as the doting mother and grandmother. There were rumors. That billy and chris rhoden senior had some business dealings but nothing was found that could have caused a mass murder but two of their children did. Have this significant connection. Jake hanna head sophia together. Hanan jake had never been married but they had been in a serious relationship. Hanna had been the one to break things off with jake and she just given birth to the second girl that she named kylie just days before she was killed so remember. Hanna had not been sure who the father of her baby was. But a paternity test done after hannah's death which show that jake was not the biological father. The police and attorney general indicated that they were focused on the wagner family. But they didn't come right out name. The suspects at that point but it was just after the one year anniversary of the murders win the wagner said sold their property and moved to alaska and this was seen as a red flag. but according to the wagner's planning this move for years they had moved at that point to get away from the police who were harassing them and they had not lived right after the murders but they may have felt the focus of the investigation moving to them one year out and made this decision to get away but then after two years there were still no arrests while that's until november two thousand eighteen on that day billy wagner. Id forty seven angela. Forty a jake. Twenty six jake's brother. George h twenty seven. Were all arrested charged with planning and carrying out the murders. So residents of pectin were divided in their opinions about their guilt or innocence. Pike county sheriff spoke at a press conference and he was convinced that the wagner's were responsible. Yeah he just went and arrested him. Yes six we think we got the re people. Yeah we'll we'll talk about him later. But a few days after those four arrests two more wagner family members were arrested billy wagner smother rodrico wagner angelo wagner's mother rita joe nukem were arrested and charged with perjury and obstruction of justice for misleading investigators to cover up for the killers so angeles mother read. A new come was charged with forging custody documents. Investigators now believed that the custody battle between jake wagner and hannah roldan over their daughter. Sophia provided the motive for the killings. Jake and hannah were together with sofia was born and they plan to be married but when hannah changed her mind and broke off the engagement. Everybody that jake was very distraught. He tried everything to get back together. But hannah was not interested and when they broke up in two thousand fifteen. Hannah was granted custody. Jake and his family though desperately wanted full custody of sofia. Investigators believed that the wagner's killed eight members of the rodent family so that no one in that family would be able to file for custody of sofia and that just seems drastic and crazy. Rooibos goes but there's a lot of evidence that was the motivation. Your bureau's it seems almost beyond belief that they would go to this length or these links to have custody of this child. Oh it absolutely does. Yeah it's crazy but prosecutors claim that read a nukem forged custody papers just weeks before the murders and tried to get handed to sign them then just six days after the murders jake wagner filed for custody and he was granted custody in june of two thousand sixteen. So you have to wonder if hannah had sign those papers and they had gotten so fia with those eight people still be alive. I think probably. It's really interesting that jake had picked up sophie and the day of the murders and that she wasn't in the hall when her mother was shot to death. So of the wagner's are guilty. I definitely think that was part of the plan. They didn't want that girl to be there. So the wagner family was four thousand miles away from piped-in in kenai alaska which is one hundred eighty seven miles south of anchorage and this is before the arrests. Yes before the get arrested. Yes they all lived in a double wide trailer on a large property. Jake got a job in construction and the family was making plans to buy a nice house but the move had definitely raised some suspicions back in ohio and a first public sign at the wagons. Were the prime suspects was when dozens of officers arrived at their former property to do an extensive search then. An appeal is made to the public for any information about the wagons. And i think that's pretty unusual though into name specifically these people say we want information about them yeah. The wagner's attorney accused them at that point of harassing his clients. Yeah he told the cincinnati enquirer that the authorities were incompetent or they were involved in a coverup according to their attorney john. The wagner's were cooperating with the police turned over laptops phones and dna willingly. Well sure but dna is something they'd be able to get from them. It'd be easy to get a warrant to get their dna. And do we know if they turned over all their phones and laptops. We don't know. I think if it was this big of a planning operation they probably had burner phones that they use to communicate with each other where you were if they were going to go to this length. Yeah all the hacking and everything could be more sophisticated. I would think so so. I don't know that that. Cooperation was so impressive or extensive but jake wagner told the cincinnati enquirer reporter that he moved to give his daughter sophia. A better life in alaska. He said they weren't in hiding and the police knew where they were living. And that's true. The police did know they were there. But in alaska the wagner's became prisoners of the local church. And can i and seemed to be making an effort to fit into this new community. Their pastor even described them as good country. People at the church. Jake was introduced to a young woman named elizabeth armor another church member and they dated for several months and then they got married in march of twenty eighteen. But eventually elizabeth armor would be on facebook warning people about how dangerous it was to be involved with the wagner's in one post. She wrote that. God had told her to come forward about her relationship with jake. She said that she was introduced to and encouraged by the pastor to get to know jake but she claimed that she had had no idea at the time that the wagner's were involved in this murder. Investigation beckoned piked it. Also she wrote that when the topic of the road and family massacre came up the pastor. Actually vouched for the wagner's and said the charges were just slander against the family. And i don't know who the hell. He thinks he was doing that. What did he know about it to spend can had lived there that long. No for this pastor to arrive at this conclusion so you wonder if it's just that they were tithing and that's what he liked. Possibly but elizabeth wrote that. She had just wanted to be a mother to sophia but found out she'd married her worst nightmare. All posts have been taken down now. And elizabeth hasn't made any public statement since then her so she's just kind of out of the picture and silenced. Yes well but you still up in breathing. She's alive as far as we know. Sure two after the road. Murders the wagner's return to the picton area. According to a family member the wagner's had returned. Because billy wagons father got sick and because they couldn't afford to live there anymore. The plan was to get things situated financially and eventually return to alaska to live. The return of the family was a surprise. The wagner tried to return to normal lives but they just weren't welcomed in piped-in a were welcomed before they left according to angela after a few weeks people in the community resume their harassment. The cars were vandalized and they were just not welcomed in local establishments way i think since the sheriff had gone public saying he wanted to know more about them and everything that they were even liked less than they had been before. Yeah because now. They've got some ammunition that the wagner's bad people right so a raid was done on another wagner family. Property in this was a farm that used to be owned by jake and george investigators found a home-made suppressor silencer at the bottom of a well on the property and on november thirteenth twenty eighteen angela and billy wagner. Jake george were arrested for the murders of the eight rodent family members. Angela's mother rita and billy's mother fredrika were also arrested in conjunction with the cover up. They were each arrested for obstruction of justice and perjury and rita. Joe was also charged with forgery. But all six of these people pled not guilty. Now these two grandmothers might seem like unlikely criminals but a look into the past of fredrika wagner revealed some earlier red flags. She was the matriarch of the family and she was the owner of properties throughout pike county. She had also found a to nonprofit organizations. The i was lucasville mission. Which is a church that helps underprivileged children and the other is the crystal springs home. This is an organization that helps developmentally disabled adult. She is well known in the community. Some people left her others feared her right now. It sounds like she's a very altruistic woman. Yeah i mean there were a lot of good things to say about her and she looks like just the small town grandmother in so many ways chris. Let's get some dirt on her well. Her attorney described her as a god fearing woman who taught sunday school but she had some business dealings with painted a different picture of her own. So this farm. The flying w. breeds horses dogs and pigs and in the nineteen nineties. Frederick had some legal troubles with some customers over the sale of some pigs. A group of customer sued her over her farm not meeting standards and for fraudulently selling them pigs who didn't match the description advertised by her. There were rumors over the years which causes many the locals to fear her to they had made money selling horses and miniature horses and there were some indications that the horses had been stuffed with drugs and moved back and forth to mexico to transport illegal drugs but these are all rumors. I only bring them up because they want to get a feel for the community and what people are thinking. Fredrika was also well known for her rent to own program developed to help lower income residents achieve home ownership over the years frederica entered into at least one hundred thirty land and stomach contracts so these contracts allowed the wagner's to hold the deeds son land as buyers paid off the principal and the interest if the buyers made all of their payments. They were assured that they would eventually be owners of the property but only twelve of the one hundred and thirty contracts wherever satisfied in looking back at the deals eighty percent of them were ultimately terminated without indeed being transferred so despite the renters making all their payments the vast majority of the properties remained in frederick possession many these people felt tricked by her and taken advantage of there was one tenant who described his rental as a real trash pitt to it was a one room with the toilet exposed in one corner. So was frederick more of a slum lord than someone helping the poor kind of sounds like it certainly surely does. These land contracts had many holes in them that she used her own benefit. And i did just a little background reading on this and these rent to own things pretty common scams against poor people. Scam get scam. Someone scam some rich bastard. Why would she scam. Poor people who just want to own their house. Fredrika wagner had not approved angela. When she married her son. Billy angela has been described by some piked and residents as shady person. She had passed on two thousand one. Angela unduly were charged with improper handling of a firearm. Two thousand twelve air both charged with a felony for receiving stolen property. The two thousand went firearm charge was an alleged road rage incident where angela pulled out a gun but no one was shot. So that makes it okay right well. It makes it better than if you shot someone. That's for sure. This occurred fifteen years prior to the murders. So maybe these charges don't seem real significant but with fredrika we see some poor character and dishonesty still nothing that would predict mass murder plot. That's the problem and june. Twenty six twenty nineteen frederick ahead. Her pretrial hearing the charges against her were dismissed. Prosecutors had accused her of lying to a grand jury about to bulletproof vest. That were found in billy's bedroom and her family farm when investigators searched their beck and twenty seventeen. According to one family member not charged for drake had not purchased the vest prior to the murderous but actually two weeks after the murders according to prosecutors. Fredrika had misrepresented where she had purchased. These vests overall. The charges against charges seemed like they were mainly brought forward in an effort to get her to talk about the murders and may be turn on some of her family members. But that didn't happen so was dropped but the prosecutor reserved the right to charge her again in the future but when the charges were dismissed for was happy she stood up. She waved to her. Supporters thanked her attorneys and said praise. Jesus she was quoted as saying trust in the lord with all you can and he will lead you down the righteous path. And then she added. They have no evidence. She had me up until they're so. That's the end of that rita newcombe agreed to a plea deal. She took a reduced misdemeanor charge of obstructing official business. The felony charges of forgery perjury and obstructing justice were dismissed and billy jake and george wagner all remain in jail on murder charges and could face the death penalty so an interesting piece of evidence are excel spreadsheets. That have hundreds of entries with messages including screenshots about child custody. This could point to the motive by showing that the wagner's were obsessed with getting custody of sofia prosecutors on the case also talked about a confidential informant. Who told them about a meeting at frederick house with the other accused family members. According to this informant the family disgust taking revenge. On attorney general. Mike dewine and unpire county sheriff charles reader. So we don't know who the informant was but to me. It seems unlikely. That the wagner's they're going to discuss this stuff. You know killing the ag and the sheriff in front of some outsider stretch. So that's true. Maybe the informant is a wagner family member. Who's turning on the others. I mean otherwise. I can't see it at the pretrial. Hearing george wagner to get released from prison on bond the prosecution presented some of the evidence they had against him because they wanted to keep him locked up one of the lead. Detectives testified that the police have ballistic evidence. Connecting firearms used in the murders to guns believed to have been owned by the wagner's so this includes a forty caliber handgun a twenty two rifle and a thirty caliber gun. They also have the shoeprints that match. The shoes purchased at walmart by the wagner's in their alleged effort to frame james manley. The prince were found in dried blood at two different crime scenes. They also found the receipts for the shoe's on the wagner's property so that's pretty good evidence they also had thousands of recorded statements from interviews with george wagner where he claimed that there were no custody issues between jake and hannah so fia at all but we have plenty of evidence that shows. That's not the case and something else was brought up at. George wagner's recent pretrial hearing. This is a screenshot of a message. From hannah rodent to a friend of hers in the message and telling a friend about the wagner's attempts to force her to sign forged custody documents. The screenshot was found on the wagner home computer and they had access to by hacking into hannah's facebook account the message ribs. I won't sign papers ever it happen though. Have to kill me i. That's a bit haunting reduce. You know there really is a lot of evidence that the wagner family was obsessed with getting custody of that girl people who knew the family have said that custody had been an issue for the wagner s- before so george wagner in. His ex wife were married for several years. That's jake's big brother and they had a son together. according to her. The family tried to force her to sign over custody of her son. Angela had manipulated. The ex wife had hired attorneys. Eventually taking custody of the boy the wagner's then maintained custody all the way up to the time of their arrests so the family definitely kept the boy's mother away from him as much as possible. It does show an earlier pattern. Hannah had contacted georgia's ex wife for advice when the family came after sophia and the ex wife told her not to listen to them. Sign anything without her own attorney. Of course we still have the evidence at the wagner's did actually try to trick hannah in assigning over custody acea to them. Yes there are many indications that the wagner's are very manipulative people. Angela wagner in fact did try to influence testimony from prison. She called her mom. Rita joe nukem several times and astronaut to testify against the family. She also gave her advice on how to explain. The forged documents as punishment. A judge took away angeles phone in mail privileges and this behavior of courses very bad for her defense. Any conversations from prison can be used against her at trial. So what about the idea that. The pike sheriff's department is incompetent road and murders made the news nationally. But the head been other sort of similar murders in piked in ohio. They might think this nothing ever happened in his place right right. Yep burt you found a lot of stuff. Yes so there had been. At least three recent cases in pike county with multiple homicides one is the case of forty eight year old candice newsom and her sixteen year. Old daughter christina. Who went by the name michael. This was january of twenty sixteen. So that's just three months before the rodents were killed so the two victims were shot execution style. It took three years but a neighbor man was arrested for the murders last year. There has been speculation that there was an accomplice but that hasn't been brought up candice's sister darla has spoken out expressing her opinion that her sister and nieces murders may be related to the road and murders and she said that they did run in the same circles so some of them knew each other than in april. Two thousand sixteen just weeks before the road and murdered young couple. Douglas eat mun and caroline and tomlinson were executed in their home. This was a double homicide in the middle of the night with four children. Left alive eerily similar to the road and murders. Charles elmer eat men and james allen even were indicted for murder and tampering with evidence. Is there douglas's cousin and uncle and always part of the motive is believed to have revolved around the family. Drug dealing business. The motive for candidates in her daughter's murderers isn't known but many locals have been critical of taking over three years for them to arrest the next door neighbor in the case and i could see that in the third other case in pike county is the december two thousand six case of the murders of engaged couple. Thirty four year. Old kurt francis and thirty year old jennifer forget and. This one is still unsolved. There have been no arrests or really any persons of interest mentioned. They were both shot and killed in their beds in the middle of the night curtain. Jennifer live just about ten miles away from the rodents property but their cases not gotten anywhere near the amount of publicity. There is a belief by those living in the area. That jennifer in kurt were just nice. People who got involved with some local drug dealers. The wrong people much of the crime in the area. Though is drug related. They have a big opioid in math problem. There and the were drug dealers living right down the street from curtain jennifer and apparently kurt owed them some money so according to the authorities on the day of the murder kurt had been drinking with these drug people when he and jennifer had an argument and during the argument jennifer said that she was going to stay at her mother's house overnight. So the couple's families think that the people who kurt had been drinking with overheard their conversation and decided they would go rob kurt believing that jennifer wouldn't be home but after they had broken into the house they saw jennifer and decided they had to kill them both. So i'm not sure why the family thinks this but the family also thinks they have an idea of who did it. They know who these people are but no arrests nothing. Investigators believe that the shooter is responsible for at least one other murder. Several leads have been investigated but not enough information was obtained to justify any arrests. The family suspected to be connected to the murder was investigated and police found a well on their property that was covered up by garbage and rocks. Yes so this story is just amazing. In horrible way shows the incompetence. I guess that's why we've brought in. Just mukhin your schick. Yes so investigators. They know that there's a couple of guns down. Well so they move a camera down there on polar whatever and they saw the two guns thirty feet down and one of which believed to be the gun that was used in the murders so there was also some bird clothing down there. That was probably some pretty good evidence. But police made this horrible decision to retrieve the evidenced by pumping water into the well from a firehouse. And this didn't go was they had planned at all. This is embarrassing for them. The force of the water caused the ground to break up and the guns actually went further into the earth so turns out. I guess this evidence is lost in irretrievable. Your know why they said it's too expensive to get it. But do you do that in a murder investigation. Not usually but what they did anyways. They apparently closed up the well with a steel plate. At someone come in and do that but family of the victims were quite outrageous upset and said. This is just complete incompetence to do this. How will it ever be solved. Might not be so you can kind of see now why. The community didn't have a lot of confidence in the pike. County sheriff's office. Well yeah but napa county sheriff's office also had state police. Fbi helping them so got a bunch of incompetence true enough. yeah self while the pike county. Sheriff charlie reader had key pieces of evidence from the road in case moved to that warehouse which was in the nearby town of waverley that was about a month after the murders now. This included the mobile homes and other vehicles in that huge lot with the fence around it but we know that it was unsecured so there was no police guard. There was nothing keeping the public from this important evidence. The chain of custody was broken. Which can of course have a really bad effect on the case could damage it. Yes so that's when local. Cincinnati news reporter jodi barr had contacted the pike county sheriff charlie reader with his concerns and told them that he planned to air report and the tv news about the warehouse area being unsecured and according to jodi he was approached after that by sheriff reader trying to make a deal for them not to run. The story reader offered access to the news crew to do an exclusive on the first one hundred hours with the sheriff in the roden murder investigation if they would agree not to run the story about the lack of security where the evidence was stored and they were pretty outraged by this. This is not a cool thing to do so they told the sheriff. We don't make deals and they went ahead with that story. Shariff reader was really at the center of the road and investigation. His deputies and state agents spent two years tracking the suspects before they made the arrests but he was suspended in the spring of this year. Prosecutors have alleged that reader misappropriated about fifteen thousand dollars in seized funds and also borrowed six thousand dollars from his employees. He was also accused of circumventing the rules. It is departments auctions to get impounded vehicles for his family members so he is faced sixteen charges and a grand jury has indicted him on to additional charges including felony charge of engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity which carries a recommended prison sentence of two to eight years. He pleaded guilty at the end of september to five charges including tampering with records theft in an office and conflict of interest. Some criminal justice experts have said that readers conviction could really be a problem for prosecuting this case or return. So yes but ohio attorney general. Dave jooste told fox nineteen now the local news network that readers indictment would have no impact on the wagner capital murder case as sheriff reader was not the primary witness for any issue of fact or law but. I don't believe that well if you're trying to paint the investigation as incompetent and corrupt you've got a good poster boy for it right exactly. Yeah yeah we'll see so the three children who were spared during the killings highly. Hannah's newborn lives with her father. Charlie gilly brantley the three year old lives with his mother and ruger. Frankie and hannah hazel gillies six month old infant is living with family members. Sophia the one. Who's at the center of this whole thing jake in hannah's daughter his currently in the custody of child protective services. But i have read a few things about her going to family members on the road and side which there are people in the family who think they can give her a good home and you think they'd go with family before strangers although in this case it's very complicated and so it looks like right now. The police are waiting for one of the four. Wagner's angela billy georgia jake to try to talk or make a deal. The wagons have been incarcerated apart for years now so i really wonder if one of them is informant. That was mentioned earlier. Jake had reasons to be hurt and angry and platinum murders. I think angela to see reasons to follow through the plan. She wanted custody of sofia very badly and had already managed to get custody of another grandchild. Georgia's son. I can see billy being really motivated in the murder to since he allegedly had a falling out with chris rhoden senior. But what about jake's big brother george. Yeah i don't know maybe he was just foul or it just seems like this was a close knit family. Family was a big deal like it is with everyone of course but sometimes more with country people. But you know it's been what now four years since they've been arrested so wouldn't surprise me if maybe george talks. Maybe his the informant even so they have been apart for two years since they've been arrested over two years so maybe he's the environment will find out. Eventually it's interesting to watch the wagner said waived their right to a speedy trial and now the trouser postponed remember all four have pleaded not guilty and have been held at separate jails in ohio and they do face the death penalty a hearing for george earlier this year. A special agent with the ohio bureau of criminal investigation testified that there were three murder weapons and one of the guns. A walter colt nineteen eleven. Twenty two pistol was the type wagner owned at one time so this author colt pistol has not been found interesting. Yes and the prosecutor has said he wants jake to go to trial i before his brother and his parents so that makes me curious of what's going on there. The trials were supposed to begin this past fall but have been postponements related to the covid pandemic so hopefully one day. We will know what happened. But i don't think we'll ever know the full story dozen summer. Do too much going on here. Yes very complex. Case authorities estimate that investigators have conducted tens of thousands of hours of investigative work on this case. They followed more than eleven hundred tips from the public. They've conducted over five hundred interviews tested more than seven hundred items of evidence. And they've served more than two hundred subpoenas search warrants and court orders as well so this has been a big job for them through busy. Yes absolutely so. I'm leaning towards their guilt here but there's just a lot of funny things. I don't understand funny. Odd things renault. There's so much to it and you know we're working with only part of the information. The police have to keep some things from the public. So be really fascinating to see what happens when these trials began. I'd like to see if one of them is going to turn state's witness or whatever you call it. So our sources for this case include the pike county coroner's office press release from april twenty six twenty six teen articles from news online from april of twenty nineteen. The associated press articles from november of twenty twenty an article from the columbus dispatch from april twenty. Second twenty twenty. There is a podcast by i. Heart radio titled the piked in murders. Which i found really fascinating. They do repeat it a lot of the same stuff but other than that. There was a lot of good information there. We also looked at the fox. Nineteen now w. x. i. x. tv news reports by. Jody barr from october. And november of twenty sixteen and from november twenty eighteen. oxygen dot com has a documentary titled the piked and family murders spun hour and a half long and that has a lot of information in his well she sees music was written and produced by tristan capelle and just a quick reminder. We do have merchant sale on our website. Tie grabber dot com. And if you'd like to get your future. Tc cb episodes commercial free. Get an extra members only episode each month and get a free beer glass bottle opener or a set of coasters along with stickers magnets and buttons you might want to consider subscribing tight grabber at tiger dot com now. I rarely mentioned this. But we also do have all of our episodes and bonus episodes available on our on page for those who prefer using that to offer support to us our patrons get bonus episodes and the gift as well so enough self-serving shit. Let's do the feedback all voicemails today your feast or famine around here today. We're gonna feast we go three voicemails. All right i'm going to start out with karen who was just commenting on a documentary that we watched as well. Hello there jilin dick. I hope that you're keeping very well and very safe. And and all of you in your pets are doing really well continuing to absolutely love your podcasts. I just wanted to drop you quick this story. This is karen from toronto canada When if you're longtime listeners and admirers and i just wanted to know that there's an excellent four part documentary series on hbo. Perhaps you've seen it. It's called murder on middle beach and it takes just remarkable. It's so it so remarkably well done and I just thought. I passed along in case. You haven't heard about it so wishing you all the best and thank you so much for all that you do buy thank you care and you're so kind we really appreciate it murder on middle beach. Yes we did. Watch it. It's right up our alley. We were hoping there'd be more episodes because it was one of those things where you didn't get an ending. Boroughs impressed with the kid is not a kid. He's an adult now. Yes a son in his twenties talking about the murder of his mother right. Yeah and he. He did a very good job. Yes introducing make a career out of this documentary making stuff but yet is a very fascinating story and we'd recommend it to people as well you know if there's ever a resolution i'd love to cover it on our show as well or we would. Yeah okay well. Thank so much again. Karen and now we have a case suggestion from tj readings. Ju on dicko. I just had a quick suggestion of occas- you could possibly look into and been a lifelong country music fan and one of the most famous murderers at surrounds country. Music is the murder of granola restart. Dave aikman who was professionally known as string. Bean and his wife stale. There has been several good articles written on and least one hour long tv documentary. That has made its way to you too. But i would love to hear your take on it. I love all your work. And i appreciate everything you do. Give us a lot to do during this time lot. Listen to keep it a thanks. Well thanks a lot. tj. I'm thinking karen in tj if they did a podcast together they've just got lovely voices don't they don't yeah melodic really well. This guy aikman known as string bean. I think that's because he was six foot five inches tall and kinda skinny he was a regular on hee-haw and grand ole opry as tj said. He was also his famous for wearing not outlandish clothing but his preferred clothing was a shirt. A pair of shorts with a belt. Buckle around his knees so look like his waist was that his knees well out of those grand old opry and he people. They all had their own little. This was stressing -ality their own little setup like the one with the tags on our hats. Yeah yeah so. He and his wife were murdered by some burglars. Nineteen seventy-three there. Were two cousins that were to the murders. One of them died in prison. The other was paroled about six years. Ago and i hadn't found anything details. His life after perot. So hopefully he's been clean. Yeah i wasn't able to find anything after parole. But i did find the article from twenty fourteen when he was released. He was sixty four when he was released. Sir forty one years. Yeah long time. So it was on the evening of november eleventh. Nineteen seventy three when john brown and his cousin. Doug brown ransacked the aikman's cabin on their farm near nashville. So i guess. They were looking for some cash that they thought ackman was keeping. Their police said the cousins were surprised. When the aikman's came home and john shot string bean as he walked into the cabin and then ran after the wife in the yard and shot her in the back of the head. I have to wonder where these guys drunk something was really strange about. This are desperate. So their bodies weren't found until the next day they were found by fellow opry performer. Graham jones who was a close friend who lived nearby although police said the motive for the slayings was robbery. The browns only took a chainsaw and some guns and it wasn't until nineteen ninety six when the police found the cash that they were looking for an actually string. Bean had concealed it in the walls of his home so another senseless two murders. But yeah fascinating case. I'd like to find out more about it. So definitely a good case suggestion all right so one more voice mail in this one is from patrick with two case suggestions to allow dick and jail. This is patrick. Promised land. And i'm bringing to recommend to cases from this world. The first case is the case of allen hall h. a. w. e. who murdered his family and then killed himself a few years back in ireland. And it's a very very tragic case and it's worked checking out. The second case is the murder of bobby ryan in tipperary in ireland. And that's a very interesting case about relationships and low and amendments sentenced abbott. Two years ago at for that crime. That's taken out in terms of beers. I would be to recommend something from the guinness brewery laughed your normal guinness draught that everybody's used to but some variations that they've got into the last couple of years. First recommendation is guinness. West indies out. The the second recommendation is guinness milk. Stout there are two variants that the burri has got into in order to try and compete with craft beer market. And they're pretty good. Okay dick and jail. Thanks for everything bye. Thank you patrick. You're those are two good cases in know. What about the beer. Those beers available over here do we now. I don't think i've seen the milk step. But the west indies. Stout have had part of a mixed pack guinness's also just made some barrel aged stoute's that i'd love to try if my packard store would ever get him All right okay. So yeah these two cases the first one is actually murder suicides. Very tragic now twenty sixteen and about to be exposed as a cross dresser addicted to porn. Is that really that shameful nowadays. When i first heard about this i thought oh it must have been back in the sixties or something. No one suggestion of some inappropriate sexual behavior at the school. He tied well. There's another logo mother love else. Okay but yeah. He had his three kids. Were ages six to thirteen something like that and his wife. So i kill all of them. That's what i don't understand remote himself right. But if you're that depressed and you're gonna take your life. That's a tragedy of course but then why would you kill other people to especially children says well. It's tragic all around for sure. And then bobby ryan a love triangle. What do we know about that. Not march okay. So we'll look that up. yes we will. Patrick quirk was the gentleman convicted of bobby ryan's murder. That's not our patrick. Who left the voicemail. That's different patrick. I hope i. I'm confessing to my own murder. No i mentioned patrick. Common name especially in ireland or would think. Yeah but another lovely voice. So thank you patrick. Thank you her to the suggestions. yes interests. Thank you to everyone for taking time out of your day to listen to us or just a lettuce. Entertain you while you're doing some kind of work around the house or whatever. We definitely appreciate it and of course we appreciate your feedback. Keep that humming rear low. Subic thanks for voicemails jan. Something to do. Absolutely thank you so much and we'll see everybody next time at the quiet end service it for you bye-bye burgers company talk
Bad Dad, Family Affair, & Deadly Depression
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These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA this product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent vent any disease. Dan warned you know being a and welcome to bad in the moon docks as always. I'm one of your host. Oh stand and I'm drew. How's it going going pretty good as always but it's a night today whenever you listen to us? We have a special guest for all the different podcast. Actually this is our first. Yes from another podcast. Exactly so we're burgeon on list financial. You is complicated. There's the you with debts and bills that never stopped the U.. Who'd like to put a few bucks away the U. who'd rather by place and pay rent forever? All of you need apps and advice that work for all of you all we see is equal housing lender member. FDIC ask me on no it is from. I'm heather I'm from nature versus narcissism. This is so oh cool. I'm here I guess you are so. We've been super excited to do this. Yes we've been planning this for months. I feel alike since at least Jesus. So can you tell everybody what your podcast is about. And what they can. Listen listen for awesome yes so nature versus narcissism is true crime comedy and I cover serial killers with a multitude of different guests. We have have Other podcast hosts we have or shell. She's the main co host and then we also have like guests who want to be on the show just like friends family early random people we meet at bars. You know. It's just like anybody who wants to be on can be on We basically cover serial killers in alphabetical order are so season one was alphabetical by the serial killers name and season two. We switched it up a bit and we are doing better by location and and they don't necessarily have to be a serial killer they just have to have killed at least one person. Because we're just doing you know lesser no murderers as well so it's all over the countries all of our country ever other countries. It's a huge mix of Killers so so. If you have not ever I went and checked out nature versus narcissism. Make sure that you do it today. Yes yeah definitely. You'll get a whole bunch of episodes from October. Yes a whole lot because she did one every day. Yeah that is dedication. Where can they find that pretty much everywhere? I I always forget. My handles from Social media sites a social media site but basically if you just look up nature versus narcissism on facebook twitter or instagram Graham. You'll find me You can also look on spreaker dot com. That's usually the easiest because then all the handles are listed right there as well all right awesome okay. That was nice now. We both have little intros. I like that. Yeah yeah perfect. Perfect all right Do you want me to start or do you guys want to start. Or how do you do that. The jury I don't don't leave the good at making. It doesn't matter whatever you want all right. How about since you guys are on one podcast? One of you does one. I'll do the middle one and then there you go okay. I'll go last yellow. I'll go first them. I could go first but I'll go first. I don't know I don't mind saying it out. Go I all right take on for the team. Yes I okay okay. So our first Halloween episode. Our first collab- Halloween episode is going to be about just crimes murders. I mean that's what we're good at right so dan you take it away. Give us a murderer. Crime make it grizzly. And then we'll go from there okay. Well I'm going to talk about a man to cope today. Today is the twelve year old girl with dreams. She had a plan the out by a Lynn and becoming a veterinarian. God You really had to go there. yeah yeah. She didn't die from cancer or any other disease. You see Amanda Cope. She was a seventh grader at Sullivan. Middle School in Rock Hill South Carolina and in two thousand and one. She was brimming with hope despite living in poverty and I do mean poverty despite I sleeping in a bed that had a fan blowing over it in the cold nights of November. Up Dan to keep the cockroaches away. Oh Wow the homeless. So bad. Amanda Aner. Two younger sisters had to navigate pathways forged through the household garbage to get one room to the other look beyond horror house looking. Oh God my stomach turning already that year State Department of Social Services the the investigators already were looking into the cope family situations for two reasons. First Amanda Parents had pleaded guilty just two years ears before to allowing Amanda and her sisters to live in a mobile home. That was even worse than in the House. They were in now. It had no toilet buckets urine. MPC's filled the space. Rotten food was everywhere as well as rats. You Know Momma won't talk about Nassar Answer this Damn House ours is nothing around. DSS INTERVENE COPS OPS. Charged Billy Wayne Cope and Mary sue cope with the unlawful neglect to nineteen ninety nine and they pleaded guilty and they promised to change over the next two years. Amanda Sisters told The Herald that Billy Wayne cope remained cruel and abusive using paddle that he'd evening named Lucy to discipline them and anytime somebody naming their form of discipline is is not right. Yeah you know. Something's real released. Their once. They said Amanda was beaten black and blue early in two thousand and one. Someone noticed cockroaches crawling from the clothing and the book bags of the Cope Girls and DSS was alerted again. amandus mother were the overnight shift at a factory and her father was three hundred and eighty five pounds. Jesus Christ me. We know with money for computers and he worked part-time delivering chicken. Or I aww see why is he might have been stuffing it. I don't know who knows amid all that. Amanda was learning to play the violin at school. I remember her her walking into class. The smile was so short. A girl who wanted to know more with each passing day. That's what Jacob Dakin Bacon said. And he was a violinist himself and that suit taller. See that makes so much more sad like it's like 'cause somebody like talks about the connection that they had had with her. You know what I mean. It makes it so much more real feeling rather than just the story yes and that I met a violins one of the hardest for instruments to learn. And you know that she had that drive to steal won't to do that right and I think living in that kind of way I mean I wouldn't won't even to be seen you know but anyway Amanda would not get a chance to learn not ah lot on the night of November twenty nine two thousand and one Amanda was raped. She was sodomized and she was strangled. Angle Day can also say that she was a beautiful child he and this man. He's the assistant professor of Music Education. Asian at the University of Kansas though. He was a good teacher and she was one of the reasons that he said that he continued to teach. Amanda Cope died by all accounts a horrible death in a written statement to the Herald. Her sister said that the cope children had to live and filthy realty homes that their father was making sure his computer and desk were in good shape. That's the only thing he ever cleaned and the girls. At times uh-huh they've lived without the toilet. Pathologist testified in two thousand four that Amanda had been subjected to repeated sexual abuse. She was without a doubt the victim that terrible November Day in two thousand and one but not our father he didn't say that she was a vm. Indian system that he is the victim of a merciless. The justice system that locked him onto him as fat sexually twisted pervert and he said that they just had to found him guilty despite the presence of DNA from a sexual Predator besides him but billy Wayne Cope claimed when he was arrested in two thousand and one and when he was on trial in two thousand and four and his lawyers they always claimed that coke slept through the rape and sodomy and strangling of daughter. Come home and they blamed well but he even admitted that he did he. There's a videotaped confession of him even show when how he did it and that is a hard thing to watch exactly. I'll watch that video and it at the House. All you actually watch shaw. A video of him reenacting. You know that the police taped a it is like on the ban is just like he has no emotion of what he did. He shows the entire lifetime period that he was strangling wrangler her stuff. Evidence all fricking psychopath. Oh my God. And that was that was his actual biological daughter right. Yes yes God not not saying that. It's even better you know it's bad woman. She was only eleven Ghada data but yeah that was his real. I'm his biological belt and head does. It wouldn't be any better but it takes it to an even more and even more twisted level there is how could you even look at somebody. That's your own flesh and blood God but coke did confess to the crimes and he even staged the scene to make it look like a man strangled herself with a blanket. What oh what a s bullshit? But he also confessed to sexual abuse of all three of his daughters really but then he re candidate his lawyer said that his confessions were falls and Co worst because police told him he had failed a polygraph exam that he actually actually had passed. However I'm GonNa tell you this and I know that a lot of people say this man was not like questioned for twenty four our or any you know like yeah like three horse like some people are? You can tell me that. I failed a polygraph test. But I'm not gonNA going to say that a rape all girls I did you know about it. I MAC and understand. Sometimes people think oh a lot can get to go home or something like that. After twenty four hours of questions. I can understand that but this was not hard question. He just ride away. I kind of went to it and this man is not all there I don't know. And the loggers say that he was innocent and did not not get a fair trial. said it was no fair trial despite four courts and colluding the highest court in the land saying in other words but he was convicted in two thousand and four of Amandas rape and murder and the tear he. He said that he was asleep and that he woke up and he heard a woman screaming like screech and almost like it was a ghost or something you know and so he went to his daughter's run across the hall from where he slept. How he was? I mean he couldn't couldn't have been sleep. Welcome because he would have never made it there. It was stuff everywhere and got into a room and she she was laying on her stomach and that he jumped on top of her and wrapped his hands around or and just dumb horribly strangler and she was screaming and screaming didn't even know who was on top of her. But I think that she I meant she had an because bring under native African pounds and that he just kept hearing this wheel and he said and then he heard somebody else say daddy daddy and then after all that that he raped her and then she was just quit moving and then he then e all of a sudden woke up but there was also a broom handle. That was involved. Aw God Room Hannay Oman. So it wasn't enough for him to just like Vialli Strangle and rape has daughter but yet he had to defile her with a broom handle as well like that he is one sick bastard an old top of it. He was a reverend of I was GONNA say. Of course he was like never that. I know some people that are going. Oh Yes oh yes but you gotta love the fanatic the amid the just creeps. Yeah there's a lot of creepers and he definitely was one of them out. Question are passed on ours. Ours is a little weird are all for their self on that. I'm just saying well I could tell you guys a story I'll tell you off air Airbus. Yeah there is a there was one when we were growing up to that was in our church and he he got busted on some real real heavy charges. When I was really young for the things is doing with little boys so I mean it it happens it happens often you think oh I met well I was molested stood by a one person? Play the piano for church and I mean he was the principal for school too but I mean he was like big in the church. You know so so well respected. So that's what people do use that as a cover. Yeah I mean they they get in these positions of power and authority and trust and they think they can just take advantage. And that's exactly what they're doing. They're taking the vulnerable taking advantage of them. Yeah say but Thank Bully Holy Mr Cope. He died imprisoned heart attack. How long was he in there about ten years? He didn't off NO UH-HUH I've met but you know nowadays like it's sickening to me. A how like if you get a death penalty. It's really not a death penalty and I mean you might not even lock out. I'm not saying that everybody needs the death penalty. That gets it but for those that are truly I meant just evil on it they they say it's so expensive expensive to keep them on death row. They need some sort of other punishment but I mean I don't I don't know but that's my story. That was a mad. You really do Dr Real fast. I'm so gonNA started with yours. Every story is Bernard Mine. I thought mine were bad. That happened like about two hours away for. I tried been his also in so funny in the same here. Yeah drew story happened the same county in the same year. Chester County. Yeah he's Chester County. Far Away is that from Roy. Deal ten minutes. Sanomat area area was in November as well wasn't it. Yes Oh my God so November and in two thousand one when someone sued on that is so odd or I had their give something that gave me goosebumps. Okay all right okay. Okay so the story that I'm going to tell you guys about is actually an ongoing trial right now. in it's actually be case that made me WanNa start podcasting to begin with so was just a little back story when I first heard about this going on. I when I and I decided to podcasts. I was like this is the one that I want to cover. I WANNA make it like a serial type podcast cast and you know investigate it from the ground and Blah Blah Blah but there were so many like inner workings with this case and there were so much controversy controversy about whether or not you know drug lords and all this different kind of stuff was involved in it and people were like. I think you should stay away from it. And like this is going to get dangerous with the cartel hell and Blah Blah Blah so Needless to say I am covering it as updates come through on my patriot on page. So I'm gonNA give you guys. Basically soclean the gist of it and then like for the future stuff it all be on the Patriot surf. Anybody wants to hear updates on it be on there but so you just give just a little tease and if you want it all Patria well. I'm going to give the majority of it. I'm going to give the whole case of what happened. And everything like that and then all the way up through their arrests but like the proceedings that are happening currently like that will be the updated stuff on patriots are all right all right so I don't know if you guys have heard the veteran on it's the Rodent family massacre or the Pike. County massacre have conde's ring a bell. I don't Abbas heard of it. I'm just GONNA go out weird so I thought maybe dude. I think you would remember if you did. I love go all right. So it's like the most bizarre story that I've ever seen like being a so the quote from our Attorney General Mike Dewine said this is the most bizarre story I've ever seen being in being involved law enforcement In this was back in November of two thousand eighteen because that's right after they were captured so he basically said that the defendants in the case had an obsession with custody and controlling children that were connected to the victims Now I said Vikto over Well yes and no. They were the reason that people were killed. But Oh you'll be happy V to hear that it's not grizzly like yours with children so if you haven't heard about this yet and you're from anywhere but Ohio than I forgive give you so I forgive you guys but if you are from Ohio and haven't heard about this case it's probably because either you're really good at staying off the grid and away from the news or you've never left your home and you have zero access to media because it's been everywhere. It's it's huge region. Ohio yes so this is one of the cases that literally makes you think of how messed up the world actually is it makes you like one a hug your family family your loved ones. Tell them you love them so much. You know what I mean. It's like one of those things that makes you stop and think about everything you WanNa lock your doors and windows because you just don't even know. Oh who could possibly want to kill you and for what reasons Around here lane came to many people that we'd have a select few. That could kill us. Yeah a very select. What are you guys like way out in the boonies? If you haven't couldn't tell they actually yeah and you're living in a town of a less than five hundred series. Yes seriously. We don't lie. We Have A. We have a flashing light. You know you have one happening nowhere to eat. No fast food restaurants. One is about twenty minutes away. Oh yeah get close. Walmart is thirty minutes away. I could so diet so well down there. I need to move down there. It's great as far as you don't have to worry about anything. Kids kids play outside all the time. Don't worry about it but it gets a little boring. Sometimes you have to start a podcast. podcast oh man. Well with this case The rumor mill started up. Because it was like it was like frontlines. Frontlines is has headlines everywhere so before getting into all the updates of it. I'm going to go through the facts of the case so this happened on April twenty second. Second Twenty Sixteen so Easter weekend. Eight members of the Rodent family ranging in age from sixteen to forty four were found shot and killed in their beds and four different homes on the property according to authorities on the case at the time three of those houses had large marijuana farms which is where everybody assumed in. That's where the rumor mill started that the cartel was involved so we'll circle circle back to that in a minute but the victims here were Christopher Rodent senior. He was forty his ex wife. Dana Manley Roden. Who was thirty seven? The couple's three children Christopher road and junior sixteen sixteen. Hannah may road in Nineteen Clearance Frankie Rodent Twenty additionally Frankie Roads Fiancee Hannah. Gilly was twenty and Christopher rodents seniors in years brother Kenneth Roden was forty four and then they had a cousin named Gary Roden who was thirty eight so all of these people were murdered while Oh that is table. Yeah so it makes you wonder like how did all of these people get murdered like at the same time you know in in three different houses. Yeah crazy right. Yeah because it seems like it was with. Did they get shot. Yes good it seems like somebody would have heard you know by the time they got last exact exactly at least one person screamed or something. Yeah 'cause knocking down the door or something. I don't know God day were Sli And so at the time of the murders police said all but one of the victims were shot in the head execution style while they were asleep in their beds. Evil Eve cure evil. Yeah the elder. Christopher Roden was shot in the chest and at the scene there were three lives spared so three people were not shot by them in. This was intentional. Cops stated that the three children were still alive and uninjured. There was a five five day old daughter of Hannah Roden. The Baby Kylie was in bed next to Hannah when she was executed so the baby was still lying next to her mother like basically lying in her mother's blood Does they left the baby there. Yeah she's best fries. It's Kinda sad you yeah. I've been the sick to do that. I met at least move the baby. I now take it with you or something. He up and this is the five day old and the two other children There was a six month old and a three year old. So they're all babies. Yeah and it does make now saying that it makes it seem like Who would would do this? That is Kinda like they won't the job. Doesn't it sound like it. Yeah so anyone who listens to follows watches true crime in any way knows that the first suspects in homicides are those closest to the victims in this case we have eight individuals to whom we need to determine their circles. Obviously as Lee so the best way to describe it I think is like a pebble in waters like the ripple effect from it. Yeah so the pebble would be the victim in this case and the pebble hits the water makes a ripple effect which means the close tight ripples closest to the pebble would be like the family then extending outwards like the the Co workers. The friends you you know stuff like that you you get the point. Yeah Yeah so then you WANNA question all those people right. So you have eight victims here in this County is actually really small in terms of like their resources like their police departments stuff so they don't have like the manpower to be able to investigate in like talked people for all eight of these victims like it's it was like way too much for this county but they did they took it on So this part of the investigation is key in bringing justice to the victims. Obviously because you want to know why like what's the motive. Why were these people killed why we're every single one of the adults killed and the baby's spared yet around? You know that enclosed enough to exactly exactly and who would have motive to kill all of them like you would think that maybe somebody had problems with one or two of the individuals but every single one of them. Yeah that's Ed. They definitely did and it was definitely more than one person kind of like a family affair. Hey up the J. so knowing that I want to discuss someone named Jake Wagner Jake Wagner was an ex boyfriend of Hannah Roden and the two shared a daughter who was three years old at the time. The one of the babies was left in the House and in June of Twenty sixteen eighteen roughly two months after the murders Jake Wagner told Cincinnati dot com that there was a fifty fifty chance that he was Kylie's father and that he dated Hannah Road road for about three years before they welcomed their daughter Sophia. So all of this already is tying into the children. Jake said that. Even if he wasn't Kylie's dad he'd want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly so that you could spend time with her little sister which fair I mean Bu- uh-huh understandable but is that the right time to be bringing all that up and puts a bulls eye on your head Bro. So his mother Jake Wagner's mother. She was an alleged murder. Accomplice with Angelo Wagner also spoke to the Ohio news outlet back then and they said they need each other Basically talking about the little girls needing each other Jake Wagner needing to have custody of them She said when they get old enough to understand understand they will really need each other. So for for this part Charlie Gilly who is also the brother of the murder victim. Hannah Kelly. He told the publication that he hired a lawyer and believed that Kylie was his daughter. So like we have all these custody issues even after all these murders it. Meanwhile even as police zeroed in on the Wagner family so as the mom the Dad Jake Wagner his brother and then both grandma's so the MOMS mother and the dad's mother mass up. This is messed up and a lot I know around here. Six adults who killed eight other adults. Yeah this this dominant sounds like some rednecks shit that go around he literally just I know. Sometimes I'll listen to them. I know that you don't listen the going anywhere so it literally. I send you guys pictures later though like this reminds me of what the area that you guys are talking about you live then it. That area reminds me of it. Like it's just out there. They all have their own land out there in the houses are like spread out on it. So it's like it's like they have their own little country that seems like yeah. Yeah that's that's how a lot of it is around here man. Yeah so even as police zeroing in on the Wagner Family Jake Wachner just couldn't resist. He just kept running his mouth. He kept talking to the media which that's another red flag. But you know it kind of sounds like other killers who returned to like the crime scenes and insert themselves into the investigations. They WanNa know what's going on. What are they getting away with? What are they hiding from? Police that police. I can't find it's like literally what he was doing. Yup How called Lord again So office forward a little bit. I'll skip some of the other details. Yes for now. But throughout the course of the investigation officials had been pretty tight lipped about the specifics of the case. Obviously but people still talk. You know there's going going to be rumors everywhere. So originally when authority authorities arrived on scene they noted that there were marijuana farms at three of the four houses. Those were the victims were found and not transpire into the rumor of the cartel has the so in the beginning. Everybody was talking around town like Oh you know they were involved in some heavy drugs of the cartels involved. That's that's who killed them and you we know druglords. Don't kill kids so that's why the kids were spared. None of that was real that none of that is what happened So let's see I have a little bit more so the suspects were So George Billy Wagner. The third was the dad he was. forty-seven Angela Wagner was the wife and the mom she was forty. Eight George Wagner. The fourth was twenty seven and Edward j they called Him Jake Wagner was twenty six. He's the reason all of the started They were indicted on November twelve twenty eighteen. They face eight counts each of aggravated murder with death penalty specifications because Ohio is a death penalty state they also face additional charges including conspiracy engaging aging in a pattern of corrupt activity aggravated burglary with tampering with evidence charges along with forgery and the forgery charges her for allegedly falsifying child custody documents which is where the grandmothers come into play like. They didn't go and shoot anybody but they forged documentation Shen for Jake Wagner to like custody of the daughter. Oh yeah so I mean. At least two of them really didn't shoot anybody I guess but The grandmothers did also help cover up the crimes so they knew that they went and shot these people and they helped cover it up In Twenty eighteen the summer of twenty eighteen investigators announced that the Wagner family was wanted for questioning and had recently moved to Alaska so even like skipped state. They moved to Alaska to get away from all this thinking that they had like gone out scot-free but like the FBI by the police. Here in Ohio were like tailing them like they had been watching them for months. Yeah well actually years if you think about it but I think I have the specific numbers. let me see 'cause there's just so much here but I did have yet here. So they had made several purchases including brass catchers to catch hatch. Spent showcasing so that they wouldn't remain at the crime scene so they thought that out they plan that out They bought a bug detector ammunition and magazine Clips. In the months leading up to the killings they also shared information on the victims properties and counter surveillance devices at locations including pets and indictment states or the indictment states including their pets Prosecutors say that the family also destroyed or tampered with evidence including including Video the video recording devices that Jake Wagner purchased a March twenty sixteen in which was the month right before the murders parts of a home security system and trail cameras as well as phones belonging to some of the victims the Wagner's were also accused of illegal monitoring various social media accounts I mean they even left behind a trail of their crimes so like they left behind parts that they used to build the silencers and the forged documents and then they were pretty sloppy they were really slide like they thought all this out. They planned all this out. They bought the silencers. They built the guns the right way they got these showcasing remover things all the ship Hans. Exactly unlike the trail of everything like the cell phones that they tapped into the social media accounts like they didn't think that they were going to get caught with that stuff. Aw there was usually on Florida's but yeah and the more that we do drew crime as like you realized how on Smart People. Yeah so there's literally I have probably sixty pages worth of information on them. But that's the gist of it. Yeah that's the gist of it. They got arrested. They're all like awaiting trial I believe one. One of the grandmother's is now out of jail. She was on house arrest for a while. and then the other one I believe she goes back to court for another preliminary. Mary hearing a really soon or she went last week. I can't remember As soon as I more updates on that that will also be on my Patriot but yeah this is like an ongoing case as they could take ten years and can take millions of dollars to you know go through this whole process for each individual the suspect and and go through the trials and you know sentence them in everything but I mean it's just sick like all three of these little children now are gonna let without any of parents it's disgusting. It's almost almost as bad as not living live in. I'm at because that's horrible. Learn even whenever they grow up. They're going to hear how their parents died. Yeah I thought about that too once. Once I found out that they were spared what it's like to live but then you think about it in the boat at what cost. Yeah because then you look. Do they have to live with you. Know they have no family emily. That's close to raise. They don't have grandparents parents. You know abuse nothing lead acid well and it was so it's so expensive to that. They actually I wish I saw the numbers. I'll have to send the numbers to you guys. At least I have them written down somewhere but They had on my gosh so much help from other Police stations and stuff like that and other Law Enforcement Enforcement Agencies to help with this investigation because they couldn't afford it and even like the trial call say they've been getting help from other counties because you know Pike County County isn't that big and they don't have the resources to fund this type of huge crime. You know what I mean. They like. They've never really seen anything this big in their county. They don't know how to handle it. They don't have the manpower. 'cause I kinda Kinda sounds like us. Why how we are not only does a shitty where you're going to have all this even experienced manpower close that even our cousin is a is a deputy tippety or something like that? Yeah cops that surround thirty miles. That's funny yeah where we used to live of It's actually not far from me at all. It's like twenty five minutes now but my dad was a cop there and we lived when I was little I was like I don't understand why this this called a village but like I get it now because of villages smaller than like three thousand people so my dad was a cop there and I thought that was small but you only have five hundred only think you he does call yourselves at town. It's really not it's more of a community. You guys are aside item. You guys aren't even An entree no. We're very a very just a sampler. A sampler exactly a UH well yeah. That's my general. Oh there you go. That's a plus. We have pharmacy think. Yeah inside a grocery store see you. You guys are like the perfect setup for a horror movie two. Oh one flashing light. We have one pharmacies. One Gas Station drives the seventy five that the deputy needed their cell phone lines depot. They hit the wrong part at the house will have no see. Hey I called nine one one three hours good luck. He's in the boonies. Oh going all over the place on time. Yeah 'cause we live down Dirt Road Elsa Oh man they're so dirty. We just got high speed Internet like a year ago Hav and his wonderful we're all of us net which is not all. They claim it sucks. It's not good the struggles guls naive in hospital. First World problems well. That was a very large and ten futile unique. You almost need like a big board order wild day on. Yeah to connect the people. Oh my God yeah you need the red string you should have seen me turn like script that stuff out when I first Yeah Oh my gosh all right you got something for us yes do thank you for asking the best for last but but it's not really. Oh that's like you said you incite table. Well okay. Well I'm GonNa be doing Christopher Frank Pittman and he was born April ninth nineteen eighty nine in Huntsville Alabama. He was convicted in two thousand nine of murdering his grandparent's Jo- joy Pittman on November. Twenty eight th. Two thousand doesn't mourn when he was just twelve years old. Wow the case drew national attention in part because of his age at the time of the crime and in part because because of his defense that the prescription drug zoloft influence his actions. That's powerful drug. Yeah it was sentenced to thirty years in prison which was reduced twenty five years on appeal at age twelve. Oh Hitmen ran away from home twice. Threatened suicide was picked up by police and combined to a facility for troubled or runaway children. He he was confined there for six days while they are who was put on Paxil for mild depression. His Father Joe sent him away from their home in Oxford Florida Boorda to live with this grandparents in Chester South Carolina where he frequently visited is paternal grandparents had been a source of stability ability stability to him for years and a life with a mother who had run out on him twice and father who pittman claimed to have been abusive. Yeah well that's a great family life really for a serial killer amazing. How many screwed up parents makes such methods of children's lives is Dr in Chester having no samples of Paxil? Oh to give pitman gave him samples of so loft instead and had a child. That young though. I'm you hear it all the time on the TV though you know under eighteen at calls all these other side right. Yeah you you really. It should not be allowed unless they're in the hospital where they it can be monitored. They shouldn't be given in new drug. Although both drugs or selective serotonin own in the room take inhibitors has a war her three times. Where y'all were talking just to make it sure would get it right? Sound smarter though that all this talk. Take away in your son. You're doing great With similar modes of selective action of roughly substituting one for or the other is usually not advisable almost immediately pittman allegedly began to experience negative side effects from the new medication. This the sister went so far as to describe him as a maniac. He reportedly experienced a burning sensation all over his body which required acquired pain medication while he complained about this X.. That so that's actually kind of confusing though because like usually when you get burning earning sensations all of your body. It's usually like a nerve thing which you wouldn't get a painkiller for not I mean it. kind of seems like he was messed up on a cocktail. It will mm-hmm it. I didn't even read all the side effects that Zo office could bring to you. But it's a lot. Yeah I'm they do get like she said it earth thing. Yeah but I'm still gonNA read unless you're of He complained about on the side effects of the drug at at a subsequent doctor's visit his dose was increased raced from one hundred milligrams daily that'll make this X.. Better yeah which he was already on two hundred milligrams daily double God. That's insane I'm really confused. I mean it was a nineteen eighty nine. Though I mean they probably don't have like the scientific information nation the studies to back up what it can do but I feel like doubling like that is definitely a no no yeah it seems like these daughters really. Were there again that we are in Chester South Carolina. That is Esther Zoloft of course as severe side effects in children including aggressive aggravated depression abnormal dreams paranoid reaction solution nations aggravate uh-huh aggressive behavior and delusions risk from overdose include potential main men reactions. Hitmen had ED in argument on the school bus. He choked fellow student later. Disturb the person playing piano in a shirt that night November number twenty eight two thousand one after receiving a paddle spanking from his grandfather. Okay that's like Albert school a paddle. At least it wasn't named he didn't have a name name we didn't hitmen went into his grandparents room and murdered them with their own shotgun which he was taught how to use by his grandfather. You had bad ad in there Yeah after the murder he set the fire to the House using a candle handle papers. It went took his grandparents car their guns this stall and thirty three dollars and left it was picked up after getting stuck two counties away for a traffic stop. And that's what got him stop. It always says it is looking at. You know it's like if you're GONNA do stuff wrong you know drop normal either Dr Smarter or just like walk well rotter. By the by be honest he was twelve. Yeah and I do understood nothing even imagined so you like join on driving a car which sucks just to say lease. Yeah but I can't Lord. I got thirty dollars video third and used candles paper the bar. You know like I guess he. I didn't even use gas or anything just only twelve on before convincing you. Total Story of Lords blackmail who had kidnapped him after murdering his grandparents in setting fire to their house. Of course she chose I. I was just GonNa say that. Because that's always cut the say exactly well when he ultimately can best. He proclaimed that his grandparents grandparents deserved what they got. Oh Wow pitman's Father testified that incident occurred. Two days after Christopher's zoloft doses had been doubled on Monday January. Thirty first two thousand five three years after the murder his trial as an adult began GAM. The case involves several important issues including considerations a mental capacity regarding his age the other issue was the impact impact of the Zoloft on US Middle State. There is also the consideration of whether his crime should be considered murder or some former manslaughter slaughter ultimately the focus of the trial was on the sole off the prosecution focused on proving that Pittman Did note the difference between right and wrong and his culpable mental status was revealed by such factors as planning the cover up so that he would escape. Ah for the fire started by the candle and the steps he took during his flight from the scene on February fifteenth two thousand five hit must must convicted of murder and sentenced to thirty years in prison and two things so what what was the year. Nineteen nineteen eighty. Nine is that when he was born nineteen ninety eight was whenever he was born. Oh Okay so i. I was confused. I said eighty nine for someone. Yeah Yeah I was like what the Hell my talking about then. Okay so now it makes more better at providence to buy I bet yeah. Yeah that's why I'm like okay. Now what I said didn't even make sense. Okay so and then second thing how do you guys feel about him. Getting thirty years at the age of twelve. I don't like it and here again. Speaking of parent I feel hike. The parents messed up. Life is Kinda want cost is depression action to begin with exactly and talk the doctor being dip shit those are talking about no so case I may give it up at the pain medicine on top of the law from it there was a whole yes he did this however I do. I do not think at twelve years old. I'm there's a whole lot of I think without the medicines that he probably wouldn't them. Yeah but he would have been thinking about. He might have been olive. He needed counseling. And I think that you know he did commit the crime so he does need punishment at the time he noise arenas still developing being until he's like twenty five so he's still if you think about it almost like an infant brain. It seems like you know he's just twelve. He's a baby. Guess until you're eighteen jangle even keep them to at least eighteen. Yeah not not thirty years down the line. Yeah he definitely needs some type of counseling. Some serious area serious Rehab prison. He should have been sent to a psychiatric. Oh yeah to get help because you're not getting the proper proper health problem like all now even nowadays like people that actually need the hell. Don't get help because they are just sentenced in the person and that's not I don't I don't really think Krizner's applies for. I meant. Yes maybe even sent him to a unit I Hospital type situation. Get his meds correct. See how he does there after the help that he needs then reevaluate. Yeah Yeah Yeah well. That's all got rough rough one did. Oh Wow I. Aw I'm so used to yours out just thought the way. I was pretty rural off the sad sad exactly because you know you feel sorry for him at the same time like Oh God he did something so bad but at the same time would he have had his life a little different. Yes yeah it's it's scary. This was fun. Yeah very crime. E Yeah great stories you. Yeah well That's all we have for this episode. We are going to have an extra episode. It's going it'd be about urban legends so keep an eye out for that one as well you guys and for my ending. Stay inside. Stay alive and don't call. All the cops are so simple as always up instagram. And I'm always drew. We're signing out to U. C. L. A.. Hey It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life you want to live. CBD Medic targets your pain at its source it's fast acting relief with