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"andrew roberts lawrence james" Discussed on Behind the Bastards
"Does by. We're back good ads. I particularly liked the ad for conquering Africa and murdering millions of people. They're really a good way to end slavery. I know they made the case it was. I was hesitant. I I'll be honest. And then hearing their position on a thirty second spot. I realized I was. I was the that they got bill. Murray to voice it. Yeah yeah good pitchman. But I wouldn't call it. I mean now certainly a different second act than I anticipated from him. Yeah Yeah Yeah now 1887 Stanley departed. And we'll become his final trip from Africa. The imposture relief expedition. Pasha was an eastern European blowhard in a pseudo gifter who ennobled himself to the English people by resisting. The followers of the Mahdi in southern Sudan. And this is most similar in modern things. Because we really don't have time to get into this very complicated story. It was kind of like this. Ariza quivalent of Isis. This guy rises up. He like beats a European army. And it's just like real shocking. Move in like he's. He's raises up his own Islamic Kingdom. It's this like it's a big deal at the time they. They treated him like Isis. Like I'm not gonna say that he was. He was actually like as Isis sucked ass. I don't know if the mighty did or not I don't know enough. But that's the way they talk about him right So Pasha wound up surrounded and cut off by the forces of the Mahdi and Stanley was dispatched to relieve him and the whole operation was shit. Show again all of Stanley's white colleagues died so he was able to blame sundry failures and massacres committed by his execution on deadman which is very handy for Stanley. This expedition massacres. So many fucking people now. They didn't make it hard for him to look bad. One of his white companions didn't survive. Was James. Jameson the heir to the Jameson whiskey? Family tight on Stanley trip but not before buying a young girl from a slave trader and paying cannibals to let him watch them eat her now. Jameson was known as Cannibal Whiskey by many for years later and this might not be true. A lot of people say it's not a lot of people who have no interest in defending Jameson. Because you're just a lot of fucking stories right. I don't know the truth. This is a story people. Tell about this this expedition. The trip was a massive shit show and a lot of people died and at the end of it. Impartial didn't really wind up wanting or needing rescue so stanley took him along to Zanzibar. Anyway where Pasha attempted to commit suicide after. All this seems seems Henry Morton Stanley had finally had enough of adventuring retired. England lost his taste for that. Yeah he did how he he. He retired England he married a Welsh artist named Dorothy tennant kind of to his credit. He adopts a a Welsh abandoned bastard child like he finds like a poor abandoned kid who he was and he adopts him and loves him. So that's that's good. He Has. He's in need of a boy. He needed a boy got himself another boy. He's always got a boy and this one finally didn't die immediately so that's good that's wonderful. Oh it varies. Depending for Henry a happy ending for Henry in eighteen ninety nine Stanley became a knight of the order of Bath. He settled into a dignified retirement with both us. In Britain proudly claiming him as their son he became a liberal member of parliament in nineteen ninety five and he died in one. Thousand nine hundred. Four the stigma that remained around all of his murder stopped him from winning a Westminster Abbey burial. But he did receive a nice memorial. The epitaph reads Boulama. Tari the breaker of stones. This was a nickname he'd been given by Africans who were like this guy is such a brutal piece of shit like that's the kind of guy he is like. He's the fucking hard enough to break. Stones Rick Whatever Yeah Yeah but Stanley actually really this nickname. Which is why you should never fucking give a piece of shit a nickname. That sounds cool like call them fart master. You know. He's not gonNA put on his his grave. I'M GONNA quit from Oxford University. Press again he gloried in the name. Boola metairie breaker of rocks portraying. The Story of African explorations quest for mastery of the Earth Stanley geography was ever a militant and Manley science dedicated to the subjugation of wild nature. It's books at maps. Were weapons of conquest rather than objects of contemplation. The study of geography he proclaimed in eighteen. Eighty five ought to lead us to something higher than collecting maps and books of travel and afterwards shelving them as of no further use wide traveler. Or you're not going to conquer. Wow He's a bad tourist for most of the last hundred years. Change Consensus has evolved. That Stanley was real big piece ship. And this has been mostly universal even among his biographers until Tim Gio came around and published Stanley Africa's greatest explorer and saved him send saved him from the evils of history because as we know history is written by the victims. Yeah and I will. I will give I will give Jill this. This is probably the most impressively research justification for mass murderer that I've ever read. I've never read anyone put as much work into defending a guy who killed enslaved people for his own benefit. Like he really. He fucking puts in the LEGWORK TO DEFEND. This monster serve inspiring. I kind of wish I kind of hope that when if there's ever a biography written about me someone like Jill writes it and they can have single frame. Yeah they can frame. Moments like and Robert had no choice but to vomit on the Sushi of that Ukrainian couple out for a nice night at the restaurant. What we're his other options vanish development on the people. Next to them the Puke was going somewhere and he made the only golly good at the time the most heroic choice I would say Jesus really everybody should have. Geel in their life. Yeah I wanna I Kinda WanNa hear Jill Do Hitler. I know he wants to deep down. I kind of want to hear. Is Hitler. Um Man his Andrew Jackson I wanna I just Oh yes okay he's he. I don't think he would actually do Hitler but he would. Totally do Jackson. Yeah Yeah now Jill. We've given I think a well-deserved drubbing in this episode. What he did didn't happen in a vacuum and I think I need to close us out by quoting from a very important book called the Imperial History Wars debating the British empire and it explains the context that this biography. We've been talking shit about came out in quote by two thousand twelve a new documentary series about Britain's imperial past was being aired on British TV this one a BBC production with Newsnight interviewer Jeremy Paxman who guided his viewers through amazing stories of adventure. It's nothing short of a scandal. Packman scolded that. This history is not taught in schools. The purpose of the series he explained was to refute the conventional view that the British empire was a thoroughly bad thing the TV the TV personality. This is where people are gonNA be bummed the TV personality and naturalists. Sir David attenborough apparently did not get the memo. He complained that Paxman was far too negative about the British empire other figures who felt that. Yeah yeah other. Prominent figures who felt that the public needed to be reeducated about the virtues of the British empire and the achievements of its heroes. Were the popular historians Andrew Roberts Lawrence James and Max Hastings the biographer Tim. Jill wrote a book about Henry. Morton Stanley that declared to be Africa's greatest explore and dismiss charges that he had massacred Africans during his expeditions and that he bore any respect. We all know g yeah. Stanley became one of the leading proponents of a controversial campaign to erect a statue honoring Stanley at his place of birth. The Welsh town of Denbigh as GIO sought the time had come to dispense with post imperial guilt for Jill in those who share his views. This call to arms was fueled in part by resentment is what he dismissed as the moral brownie points politicians and others sought to accrue by well publicized apologies for crimes committed by earlier generations. He was no doubt alluding to Tony. Blair's apologies for Britain's role in the African slave trade and the Irish Potato Famine Gordon Brown's role in the expert of child migrants to Australia and other colonies and David Cameron's apology for the bloody Sunday. Massacre Dairy they call it Londonderry. But yeah it's during a visit to India Cameron also conceded that the British bore some blame for the conflict over Kashmir and expressed regret with the Washington. Post called a near apology over. The amorous are massacre of nineteen nineteen. So maybe has very little to do with Henry Morton Stanley than deal is just like trying to defend himself. So Badly. And like yeah. That's that's all. These guys are doing that right at the end of the day. They're defending themselves as heirs to the British Empire which is important to them right now. When we come from a culture that was built and attained you know would would be called greatness At least in the moral sense just in the objective the British empire was great in the same way. That like a fucking a boxer can be great even if they're a piece of shit it's just a a a term of relative power and influence people who come from those coaches which most people at one point or another. If you dig back long enough you have to decide what do you how do you? How do you deal with that do you? Do you come up with justifications for your ancestors did horrible things or do you think. It's often wrongly written as like the options are either take pride in it or feel ashamed and it's Shitty to want people to feel ashamed for things they didn't do and it's not that at all. I don't feel any shame. Personal Shame for like slavery. It's just like yeah the people. It's a horrible thing that people in the past did. I didn't do it but I'm not gonNA pretend. It wasn't a nightmarish evil. That persists to this day in a lot of its harms on society and that still has not been made close to right It's this this attitude that like you have two options which is like feel horrible as a human being for this or pretend it was fine and you die. Write us the option. Yeah you don't have to be one of the in one of those cans you can actually right like you. You can acknowledge that this was something horrible that existed in history and that you still benefit from today and you think about ways in which you can try and write it within your life but you were the one who is actually killing people. Yeah Yeah Yeah I. I don't know like my i. I don't know enough of genealogy to know if the scramble for Africa had any of my relatives in it but there's a decent chance that like yeah the scramble for Africa like all all of colonialism in Africa was as a history of unspeakable historic grade war-crimes. And that's bullshit and. There's a lot that we should be doing to write it including reparations to just fucking to the two nations and there's a whole lot that needs to be done and it's a very complicated discussion and you don't have to like beat yourself up about it because you didn't do anything about it to not be like but that was fucked up and we should do something about that right. Yeah Yeah we should. We should do something here I think we should probably do. Is I mean there? We've done so much damage to the entire continent that we send them. Yeah yeah maybe if we are just to send a bunch of civilized people like us that air raid option draw basically what I would call a white line through the continent and yeah we can establish these little these little communities in there that can let us like travel through it and we can facilitate order an art soren. We invented colonialism again. Oh Jesus how easy. It is trap of Benton colonialism. Ed Really Oh boy..