9 Burst results for "Andre Picard"
"andre picard" Discussed on As It Happens from CBC Radio
"Future fluctuating kobe. Trends leave a lot of us queasy about what to expect next. So we'll ask. Health journalist andrei picard to prognosticate on the prognosis in need of a boost. The chief public health officer for the northwest territories tells us about the recent spike in cova cases there and why she believes booster shots are needed sooner than later. Last at sea newfoundland's offshore regulator lays charges against the company. It says was responsible for the largest oil spill in provincial history and biologists says that we may never know the extent of the damage. Watch and learn the late. Any bergman spent her life observing children and their parents and her longtime friend observed ms bergman's impact on the families she worked with and on psychoanalysis itself wiggle room. Children around the world burst into tears followed by their parents as emma watkins announces. She's getting out as a big red car. And leaving the wiggles and be stale. My beating heart. American aviator upside down. Pangbourne was a famous aerial stuntman. Which is why a washington state museum is carefully preserving his ninety five year. Old sandwich as it happens. The tuesday edition radio the breaks. The mold cove nineteen trends are not easy to predict. Every country is tackled. The shifting challenges the pandemic. It's own way with mixed results. Take japan cova cases. There have plummeted. They peaked in the summer around the time of the olympics. And since then they've dropped dramatically to lows not seen all year elsewhere. Covert infections are soaring despite high vaccination rates but what we do know about how other countries have acted may help us understand what lies ahead for canada. And that's what andre picard is. Watching he's the global mail health reporter and columnist. We reached him in vancouver. When you look around it was happening in other countries when it comes to covet what stands out for you. Most think there's a lot of lessons around the world and we haven't always learn from them antenna. We lived in our bubble but you look at two countries in particular standard these days one in japan which is seeing a dramatic drop in cases very suddenly and then britain the opposite. They're senior u dries. Almost fifty thousand cases a day and these are countries in very similar situations. So it's interesting to look the details of what they're doing differently japan for us because we were looking at a huge spike in cases not very long ago in august and now people like business as usual. What happened there. What they did is japan was very late to that saination. They're very slow to start but when they did it they did it very quickly. And very intensely and they've vaccinated a lot of people they've caught up with most of the world in a very short period and had an immediate impact. What about mask wearing is that a big part of the depends success. I think that's a big part of it. It's more traditional. It happens all the time during a flu season during the fold etc uplift transit. I think there's also this notion of a culture reading matters the civic duty you know when you're told to get back needed to get vaccinated if you're told to wear masks do it. So it's really a country of rule followers and we see in countries where they follow the rules. Things go that are much more quickly kids and win. Let's look at the uk because these rules followers and remember not so long ago. How envious we were of uk and success in its vaccination roll out. We were all thinking. Oh my gosh. Only that could happen here and now look they're having these massive numbers so what happened in the uk. Well they did have a great role at at the beginning there. A leader vaccination but then they lifted all restrictions so right at the end of the summer. And we've seen cases explode. I think some of it is because they were the first to vaccinate their seeing waiving immunity. So that's not helping but they're also just behaving as if there's no pandemic anymore so there really are no rules and it makes it really easy for the virus to spread. Okay that's compare this to canada and it's difficult because every province ransom program. Some of them are very much. Like what you're describing. uk where l. Berta there was a decision that waltz. Everything's business as usual. Let's have a great summer and we know what's happening there but even worse in the territory. So what lessons has candidate learned. Well and which ones it has it. Not the lesson we learned is that you know if you take your foot off the peddle a little too soon. You pay the price. So i think alberta acted a little too rashly to get rid of the restrictions and then it's all this soaring number of cases which still paying for in hospitalizations etc statements. This catch on. So i think the lesson here is vaccination is important but it doesn't mean we stop doing everything else and i think a lesson. We've learned from from day. One and the pandemic is you always have to shutdown quickly when things are going badly and you have to reopen slowly and again we haven't always followed ruling canada. We just don't bring in rules quickly. We don't do things one hundred percent. We do some eighty five percent. Well they've been doing things pretty close to one hundred percent in many of the atlantic canada provinces. And so do you think they have found a balance i think the atlantic provinces had the advantage of these dumbness since day one. So it'd be really difficult now to impose harsh rules in jurisdictions where you haven't you don't head ontario quebec alberta done that they would be in a similar situation that they've always been slow and they've allowed the virus to get a foothold for you. Know four separate waves and we'll probably be seeing your swings again. It goes back to kind of national character. Dozen as you just mentioned because i'm jason kenney alberta said that he had to let people he just couldn't control them he he didn't have that capacity didn't have have the strength politically to restrict people the way that the atlantic provinces premiums have been able to are they just different national characters involved here. I think it's about political culture. I think we underestimated all along the nimick. The importance of that political culture and again we see it in countries where people are rule followers where they believe in their collectively. They hold us. Countries have been much better because there haven't been these fights about who gets vaccinated etc people. Just do it and they do a trip greater good as opposed to say the. Us where there's much more individualism we see that character much more now than say nova scotia so yeah that that culture really really matters all right so but we're about to face the next big test in this country which is the rollout of vaccines for children for kids between five and eleven years of age and already we're seeing polls where even people who support vaccines for themselves are hesitant. Reluctant worried concerned about getting their children vaccinated. So how can candidate move ahead with that difficult hurdle that's going to be very challenging to to vaccinate children. We all go over to have a lot of resistance in adults. People are fearful of anything that goes into their children's bodies so i think it's about sending the message if we want this to end. We have to have widespread backs nation. We can't exclude children It's a good news that they don't get as sick but they some can get very sick children candy but more importantly they spread it to other people so dependant never end unless we manage to vaccinate a large number of children as well as you know what everyone just wants to know from listening to. This interview is if you're going to tell them you're gonna have a crystal ball and predict when it's all going to be over and we are going to look back not fondly just optically but look back at cova. Nineteen is something in our past. Is that going to happen. It's going to him. But you know i think the history if you know your history of public health. We know the tend to mix. They don't end with a bang they end with a whimper. So it'll feet away. I think we can expect. V wave coming around january february but our hope is that the ripple rather than a wave. And that's what we're going to see is decreasing numbers if we do this right and for years to come. We're going to have a little sporadic greeks as we do with the flu. And that's going to be normal and we have to get to that point of normalization hopefully.
"andre picard" Discussed on The Big Story
"So it's not a surprise that all parties are promising to do more for canada's seniors the difference between them because how specific they are willing to get healthcare is a difficult topic to get into during federal campaigns because it inevitably ends up in a debate about provincial versus federal jurisdiction. But does it have to. What are some things that can be done by these parties to make sure that what we saw in long term care last year never happens again. What can be done to keep seniors out of long term care facilities in the first place and how much of these promises are actually achievable because it does take guts to stand outside a long-term care providers head office and threaten to buy it and run it federally. We are seeing feeling that we would nationalize rivera but can jug neat. Sing actually do that. And as anybody else willing to step up an offer a clear example. I'm jordan heath rawlings. This is the big story. Andre picard is an award-winning health reporter for the globe in mail. He is also the author of neglected. No more the urgent need to improve the lives of canada's elders in the wake of a pandemic hey endre good morning so far in this campaign. Have you been pleasantly surprised. Unpleasantly surprised or just not surprised at all with the level of attention being paid to elder care policy. So far. I'd have to say i'm disappointed more than anything else. Not surprise but disappointed. At how little discussion. There's been particularly given what happened with covert you know. There was really a massacre in our long-term care homes. We've had about twenty seven thousand cova deaths in canada in eighteen thousand of those ray long-term term care so there's some real serious changes that are required. And there's been very cursory discussion about this from all the parties. Can you maybe begin by contextualising the issue for canadians. What is the scale of elder care needed in canada. And how is that need increasing. Well you know we have about four hundred thousand canadians in institutional care so mostly long term care facilities some Retirement take facilities. It's one of the highest rates in the world. So what we do is we tend to default when people get a little older and have mobility issues. We default them into institutions. Where they don't really want to be and we really under invest in home care and community support so very different from a lot of countries in the world so really fundamental change that needs to happen and i think the the pandemic reminded us. Just how dangerous life can be in these congregate settings especially when a novel virus comes along and also reminded us that life. There is not always great. People are isolated They're alone unhappy. So there's a lot of fundamentals that have to change and we're gonna talk about long term care during the pandemic in a sec. But just in general we have an aging population. Do we even have space to take care of. Elderly canadians as that number goes up. Well there's about forty thousand people on weightless for Spaces right now across canada. So that answers the question. No we don't have enough room but the larger question is should people be there in the first place. I think a large number of people shouldn't be there in the first place. They should be in their homes and there there because there is an adequate home support. So i know your book addresses this need in light of the pandemic but let's just say for a second that there was no pandemic. Would we still be facing a crisis and elder karen candida. Oh there's been a crisis for many years and dependent. All it has done is really shawna a break spotlight on how urgent it is to change this But no this issue. I've been reading about for thirty almost forty years now and it's just gotten worse year-by-year as the population ages as our system under funds. The care of elders. Generally what has it been like for you over the past year and a half reporting this book and speaking directly so one of the reasons. We're talking to you. I'll just say is put out a call. For what issues do we need to inform our listeners about To help guide their votes and this was a high one on the list and a lot of stories came in about just hearing. Heartbreaking stories are experiencing heartbreaking stories. And i i guess the year and a half for you has been filled with these stories. These are devastating stories. And i like to remind people were all going there. We're all gonna be caregivers. We're all going to be care. Receivers at some point in our lives and many of us a lot sooner than than we expect so this this matters to us personally it should matter to us as a society. i think You know. I think canadians believed that. The the most vulnerable in society should be taken care of and that's what. This population is frail elders. There's very few people in society who are more vulnerable so we we owe them a debt in many ways. And we're not fulfilling that promise to take care of people that's really. The promise of medicare is no one will be denied. Essential care when they need it and once you get out of the hospital system you you're not given care in any degree that you need it so there. There's a fundamental flaw there in our system in our political promises. I'm going to get into those political promises in just a second but maybe to help us understand the ground. We're talking about here. This is something. I've been asked a few times and i'm still not sure that i have a clear when it comes to looking after long term care facilities or programs that would help seniors of the home care that we're discussing. How much of that can. Federal parties actually step in and implement or execute. And how much is just not their jurisdiction. Well you know there are are jurisdictional issues. You can't have a discussion candidate about healthcare without talking about the constitution. But my answer to that is always the same is that there's no constitutional impediment to cooperation. And that's what we need more than anything we need the federal government and the provinces to be on the same page. And say we're gonna fix this and we're going to do whatever it takes to fix it. Slow hiding jurisdiction so overall in health care. The role of the federal government is largely to provide some funding. And they can do that. And it's up to the provinces to act. the big political question becomes this funding. Come with strings attached. Can the federal government say you have to spend this on long-term care or just funding have to go with no strings attached. That's really the only question. The federal parties have to ask and then they have to provide some guidance and and express their beliefs and hope that the provinces will align on that and. I don't think there's actually any fundamental disagreement on this. Every party believes that we should take care of our elders. The.
"andre picard" Discussed on The Current
"On evening in early december twenty eighteen the young ceo of crypto currency exchange reportedly dies while on his honeymoon in india. This death is not announced to customers for another month and when they're told gerald cotton is the only person to hold the passwords to their funds. Conspiracy theories grow leaving. Some to wonder could gerald cotton and still be alive honeymoon. Moving body all the missing money. It was like but what happened. A death in crypto land available now on. Cbc listen and everywhere you get your podcast. This is a cbc podcast. It's no secret. This is something that he did not want to do. And let me be clear. This is a temporary tool that we won't use for day longer than we have to ontario famer doug ford on wednesday reluctantly announcing his provinces plan for a vaccine passport after months of insisting on tehran's wouldn't need one the new rules will come into effect on september the twenty second and it comes just as new modeling shows that the fourth wave of this pandemic could be worse than the third andre picard has been helping the current make sense of all things cova during the pandemic. He's the global mail. Health columnist and andre is back this morning. Hello good morning did doug. Ford have any choice but to implement this passport plan. I didn't corvette team. Passports or certificates were inevitable. But we've known this for months we've seen the trend go around the world and we need to. We need a way of separating vaccinated from the unvaccinated because reading now it's become a pandemic of the unvaccinated so trying into your question. We're no he didn't have any choice in e- should have done it much sooner. I think we we know that. Now and andre. What what do you think of how it's being rolled out starting in a few weeks or the paper version and then going digital. Well it's very very slow. It's you know we live in this health system that operates unpack machines and it's operating at that nineteen fifties pace and unfortunately the the depend viruses. Not gonna wait. So it's things are going to get much worse have before people actually start using these especially the electronic version which is still almost eight weeks away. Which kind of mind boggling and as you predict there's science backing you up ontario's modeling showing the potential for a serious increase in the number of cova cases. This fall..
"andre picard" Discussed on The Current
"Liberals <Speech_Male> are going to the polls <Speech_Male> is because <Speech_Male> they see <Speech_Male> an opportunity they <Speech_Male> see this <Speech_Male> growing number of <Speech_Male> vaccinated people <Speech_Male> being angry <Speech_Male> at the unvaccinated <Speech_Male> and demanding <Speech_Male> things like vaccine <Speech_Male> passports <Speech_Male> and certificates <Speech_Male> at mandates. <Speech_Male> And they're going to take <Speech_Male> advantage of that to <Speech_Male> to put their <Speech_Male> opponents <Speech_Male> on the spot because <Speech_Male> conservative politicians <Speech_Male> tend to be <Speech_Male> less keen <Speech_Male> on on violating <Speech_Male> these freedoms. <Speech_Male> So i think that's <Speech_Male> going to be a big <Speech_Male> point of the debate <Speech_Male> and it's going be <Speech_Male> a harmful <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> to the general public unfortunately <Speech_Female> about the <Speech_Female> the risks to <Speech_Male> to public health <Speech_Male> running running a campaign <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> during <SpeakerChange> the fourth <Speech_Male> way <Speech_Male> i think we've seen <Speech_Male> from other jurisdictions <Speech_Male> that those are actually minimal <Speech_Male> politicians <Speech_Male> have adjusted <Speech_Male> how <Speech_Male> they campaigned <Speech_Male> et cetera. <Speech_Male> Et how we vote. <Speech_Male> That hasn't been a problem <Speech_Male> most places <Speech_Male> in the world. It's more <Speech_Male> the impact <Speech_Male> on how people <Speech_Male> respond. And we <Speech_Male> don't want people saying <Speech_Male> you know wearing <Speech_Male> the button. I vote <Speech_Male> for this party. Therefore <Speech_Male> i'm unvaccinated. <Speech_Male> That's a <Speech_Male> which is kind of what we saw <Speech_Male> in the us <SpeakerChange> and that's <Speech_Male> definitely what we don't want <Speech_Female> now. I <Speech_Female> think people were <Speech_Female> were starting <Speech_Male> to exhale. <Speech_Male> They were feeling better <Speech_Male> about things. <Speech_Male> And now the <Speech_Male> prospect of the fourth way <Speech_Male> what would you say <Speech_Male> is your biggest concern <Speech_Male> as <Speech_Male> people <Speech_Male> hoped we were coming <Silence> to the end <SpeakerChange> of the pandemic. <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> Well i think <Speech_Male> there is a fourth <Speech_Male> wave <Speech_Male> but the wave <Speech_Male> is not going to be as high <Speech_Male> as previous ones. <Speech_Male> We had yesterday <Speech_Male> just over. Two thousand <Speech_Male> cases across <Speech_Male> canada. Were <Speech_Male> a far cry from <Speech_Male> a year ago when we <Speech_Male> had ten thousand cases <Speech_Male> a day <Speech_Male> so yes. <Speech_Male> The fourth wave is frightening. <Speech_Male> Yes we should <Speech_Male> be worried about <Speech_Male> children right <Speech_Male> now but things <Speech_Male> are much much better we <Speech_Male> have to retain that <Speech_Male> that long view <Speech_Male> that you know <Speech_Male> this a <Speech_Male> reminder that this is <Speech_Male> a marathon and <Speech_Male> marathon were <Speech_Male> going a lot <Speech_Male> better at the end of the <Speech_Male> the race <Speech_Male> because <Speech_Male> of vaccinations. I <Speech_Male> think people's overall <Speech_Male> should be very hopeful <Speech_Male> that things <Speech_Male> are looking good but we <Speech_Male> really have to focus <Speech_Male> on those <Speech_Male> individual challenges <Speech_Male> and to me. <Speech_Male> The fall <Speech_Male> is all about <SpeakerChange> protecting <Speech_Female> gets okay. <Speech_Female> All seeing all <Speech_Female> knowing andre picard. <Speech_Female> Do you expect you <Speech_Female> expect this to be <Speech_Female> the last wave <Speech_Male> here in <SpeakerChange> canada. <Speech_Male> I <Speech_Male> think we're going to continue <Speech_Male> to have ripples. <Speech_Male> For many many <Speech_Male> years this is going <Speech_Male> to become a more endemic <Speech_Male> illness. <Speech_Male> We're going to have new variants <Speech_Male> but <Speech_Male> if the wave <Speech_Male> gets a lot smaller each <Speech_Male> time that that's <Speech_Male> great that's <SpeakerChange> progress. <Speech_Male> That's what we want aimed <Speech_Female> for. Andre <Speech_Female> thanks once again <Speech_Male> for for helping <Speech_Male> us out here. <Speech_Female> Thanks laura <Speech_Female> under car car. A <Speech_Female> health reporter and columnist <Speech_Female> with the <Silence> globe and mail <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Male> for <Speech_Male> more. Cbc podcasts <Speech_Male> goto. Cbc dot ca slash podcasts.
"andre picard" Discussed on The Current
"Trying to explain to my three year old son that mom has to go away for awhile. And he's asking why i'm rosemary green and this is life jolt it's a cbc podcast about women in the correctional system. You'll hear our struggles. They're denying human contact and our successes me and his crib yet. His mom he had his toys. It was amazing for everyone. Even the guards available now on. Cbc listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a cbc podcast. It is summer and you might be soaking up. The sun on a restaurant patio. Maybe not wearing a mask. Taking advantage of a lull in the kobe nineteen pandemic but experts have already declared that canada is at the beginning of a fourth wave it's driven by the delta variant and circulating mostly among the unvaccinated which can include children under twelve. Who are heading back to school. This fall and many provinces aren't making vaccines mandatory for eligible kids and teachers. Look the the government has made a decision in the context of mandating. Vaccines were not going to do that. Will respect the choices. Individuals will make but at the same time we can be strong advocates for vaccines as a safe way to reduce risk and to allow for more normal returned to class and to be quite franken. More More normal september and fall and beyond that was ontario education minister stephen lecce through each wave. Andre picard has been guiding us through the pandemic. he's a health reporter and columnist with the globe in mail. Good morning andre. Good morning what do you make of stephen. Let's as position on not making kobe. Nineteen vaccines mandatory for those who qualify in the school setting. I think governments all over the world are struggling with this how to make did things have to be mandatory. Can they be voluntary. But i think there's no question we have to really focus on that demographic of young people there who's at risk right now and we have to figure out how to protect them and what's the best bet for that is getting the getting the vaccine to them well. We know that we've done this since day..
"andre picard" Discussed on White Coat, Black Art
"Next time we could do better but just putting money into ambulance. Services is not going to get to the underlying issues that led to the emergencies white coat. Black art did a story about community. Paramedics who conducted weekly clinics in social assistance apartment buildings. It's not hard to do. And that way you can keep an eye on people to see if if they're suffering from from heat related emergencies absolutely and i mean. We used to have nurses that are public health. Nurses did that as well. I think you know one of my favorite sayings is by. Andre picard that we're a nation of pilot projects and of course we should be having regular staffing in our social housing just to check in with people. There's a terrific example from toronto group who has been working social housing and getting people vaccinated and making sure that they had been assessed of life. We've seen so many projects like that. And i think absolutely when we have apartment buildings or social housing situations where we know that these are individuals who might be at greater risk. But don't quite yet. You know qualify for fermo services to have a team of paramedics.
"andre picard" Discussed on The Current
"The curtain on the secret of self help group that experts call a cult and follow one woman's heroic journey to get out. The podcast was featured in rolling stone magazine and named one of the best podcasts of two thousand and eighteen in the atlantic. Listen to uncover escaping nexium on. Cbc listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a cbc podcast. We are just two weeks away from the official start of summer. Do you feel like it's time for a vacation. We may not be getting off to sip wine on a parisian toronto anytime soon. But the rock maybe within your reach getting newfoundlanders in laboratories vaccinated is the key to return to a more normal sense of life. A big part of that involves the reopening of newfoundland and labrador to travel. And i'm so happy to be able to announce that plane today as early as july. First when roughly seventy five percent of people over the age of twelve are vaccinated with at least one dose and there are low covid nineteen case count numbers and low hospitalizations. We are excited to lift the travel ban and welcome recreational travelers to newfoundland and labrador even without invitation on the table. There may be reason to hesitate before you get on the plane. Andre picard health columnist with the globe and mail. Andre good morning do you think the carrot of being able to travel across this country go to beautiful newfoundland and labrador for example is enough to boost vaccination rates beyond where they are in this country already. Well people are certainly eager to travel. There's no question about that. Were close to that. You know magic. Seventy seventy five percent. But i think the the big question remains what happens if we don't get there. What happens if the resurgence too so i. I think we're gonna see these opening ups but they're going to be very cautious a lot of people. I think it'll be very leery to travel. There'll be a small number. They'll be really keen. Minutes can be interesting to see how it unfolds. One of the reasons. Why people might be leery as you say is because of the news regarding the delta variant. This is the very end that was first discovered in india. What are we starting to see when it comes to this variant where we know that. It spreads more quickly. It seems to be a little more Harmful that people suffer a little more. So this what we're seeing throughout the pandemic. We had corona virus classic. You know the original. And then we had the alpha which bush about twice as likely to spread and then this one is twice as likely again..
"andre picard" Discussed on The Big Story
"This is one of those things that we desperately need to have a conversation about. But every time we open our mouths. We make it worse. It is deemed a growing threat to public health measles mostly wiped out in Canada. But we have now identified a total of eight cases in Vancouver all of which are associated with three Vancouver area schools. In the meantime, at least thirty three students of the staff member are barred from tending school because they're the baby blight. Now quarantined inside his Burnaby town home. He cannot leave the house. He can't have isitor's it's unfair. And to be perfectly honest, it's infuriating it is easy. And to be honest with you, I've done this to label people who choose not to vaccinate their children as dumb or negligent or both and to do it even more loudly. Every time we hear about a new measles outbreak. But does that solve anything after all not everyone can vaccinate their children? And some parents have valid reasons for not doing so and other parents are victims of bad science of fear of junk ads designed to sell useless supplements. And yes, some people are dumb or negligent. But those aren't the people we're going to convince and we desperately need to. To start convincing people. So where did the modern anti vaccination movement? Come from how dangerous is it getting? How can we debunk the myth that make parents doubt the science without pushing them further into their corners by making them feel stupid? And yes, we do have to do that. Even though it's frustrating because whatever you think of parents who choose not to vaccinate it's not themselves. They're harming it's their kids, and it could be our kits. Jordan, heath Rawlings. And this is the big story. Andre Picard is the health reporter for the global mail. He has no dope and having this conversation for a while. Now. Andrea why are we even talking about this in two thousand nineteen? Yeah. Very good question. You know, it feels like the nineteen fifties again or something, but we're having it because there's such a large number of people who are refusing to be vaccinated. So we're getting these outbreaks all over the world now in one part of the world, it's lack of access in the western world where we live. It's just people. I think taking these things for granted. They've forgotten what infectious diseases are like how damaging they are two children. And you know, there's a huge pockets of people who are unvaccinated and that just lends itself to breaks as they're happening now. And I think some of us take it for granted and Canada's especially when we see this in the United States that they're struggling with some outbreaks, but tell me what's going on in Vancouver right now. Well, it's a little break at a school and a French school. A couple of students had traveled to Vietnam they were unvaccinated for for many years contracted, measles and measles spreads very very quickly. So it's eight eight nine cases, I think confirmed to date, but we'll we'll see how it plays out. Now. Like, you said, it's. A generational thing where we haven't really grown up with us. So at the risk of sounding dumb. Tell me about measles. What is it? Yeah. So measles is a viral infection. I'm of the generation I'm old enough that I had measles. I was from the previous Inacio or so you get you get itchy rash. And it's a little bit unpleasant for most people so not a big deal for most people, but with all infectious diseases once you have an infection your body's immune system reacts, and it doesn't always react properly. So what happens often as you get overheating? If I could put it that way. So you get a fever and a fever can cause meningitis meningitis can cause brain damage so measles before vaccination was the leading cause of what we used to call mental retardation or brain damage kids with mental disabilities. A number of kids died, it's not that deadly. But number of people died of of meningitis and then all kinds of disabilities. Also, the leading cause of deafness in children in my era. So it's all these. Consequences of having a fever, and the fever is a result of infection. And that's true of all childhood illnesses. Measles in particular is really spreads really quickly. They call it the most infectious disease in the world. So it's really easy to catch. And it tends to have particular damage on hearing. So I don't know why. But a lot of kids were were deafened by measles. So why the hell wouldn't people vaccinate their kids against this? Well, there's any number of reasons there's a lot of conspiracy theories. There's a lot of there's a lot of will. Meaning parents who are concerned and don't don't really see it as a threat. So this is invisible. One of the interesting things about the Vancouver cases. When these kids went to the hospital, the doctors didn't even recognize it. So if you know if you're a doctor in the nineteen fifties or sixties, you could recognize measles in a second. But we don't see it anymore. So it's become invisible. So people say why would I put this drug into my child's body left? My child to protect them from some theoretical threat that I've never seen. So a lot. Of it is I think well intentioned, and well, meaning, but but very naive, then there's a sort of a small minority of people who are really anti vaccination. You know, they think that big pharma is a huge conspiracy. Many of them are selling alternate products themselves. So that's we can't forget that. There's a a money issue here. They want to cash in on this fear. So that that's a bad element of this. So all kinds of little reasons like that. But I think the big one if I if I explained the reason in in a word, it's fear people are fearful of vaccines more than they are of disease because they haven't seen disease when we talk about the fringe element of conspiracy theories that come behind the anti vaccination movement. There's always that one study that comes up you tell me a little bit about where that study came from. And and how credible it is. Yes. So the famous Andrew Wakefield study back in the early nineties which concluded that people who get the memo. Vaccine which is measles mumps rubella. So you get these shots three together. So it's you're needles. He made this link with kids having autism. So this is a small study was subsequently shown to be fraudulent essentially hit picked out the children's selectively eliminated those who who didn't fit his his idea. So what it wasn't as is in association. So kids tend to be diagnosed with autism around the same time, they get childhood illnesses. So people think there's a connection they actually just sort of happened at the same time in childhood. It's anyhow long story short not only was this study debunked. There's no actual link. But it turns out that Dr Wakefield published this study in an attempt to sell his own measles vaccine. So he wanted to sell an alternate vaccine. Which to me is the the ultimate irony in this. He's becomes the big anti vaccine grew, but initially he was trying to promote a vaccine to to make himself money. Why does it still persist like it? It does seem like a study that's been so thoroughly debunked and yet it's still site. Ended in a ton of places. I think it persists because of autism is such a be Dilling condition. We don't know what causes it. So we people are desperate to find reasons. People are desperate to want their child to not have autism. So there's that's the element behind it. So any little thing, you know, who I'm not going to take the chance. Maybe it is true. So people are, you know, people have dotes, and I like to emphasize, I don't think people don't vaccinate are evil. I think most of them are well intentioned. And again, I come back to that thing. Hoover case of when that father spoke publicly he talked about that he said, oh when my kids were young the whole vaccine autism link was out there, and I didn't want I didn't want them to have autism. So I didn't do this and he regrets it now. Of course. But it was well, meaning is there anything that you've seen in your work or even just in discussions? You've had with people that strikes you as a good way to sort of bridge that gap with. Without judgment or without criticism. But actually help people who are confused or who are to your point well intentioned, but but believing faulty science to actually come around to the medical consensus. Does anything work will you notice a very good question and entire books have been written about this? How do you address vaccine as easy and the sad truth is the thing that works best is their kids getting sick. So this father, you know, whose kids three kids got measles is going to become a real zilla for vaccination. But unfortunately, you know, that's not very efficient manner. It shouldn't take that. But I think what we find is. Generally is people listen to their peers more than they listened to experts. So it has to be discussions among parents about why we vaccines vaccinate and why we don't vaccinate and part of the problem is to be honest. The the large majority of people do vaccinate their kids eighty five ninety percent. And they're quiet. They don't challenge people who say oh rights always while you're poisoning your kid. So I think some of it is we? We have to those of us who are believers in vaccines, and I shouldn't use the word belief because it's science so those who are opponents of vaccination should be more outspoken and challenge people, but not in a not an obnoxious way when I'm on Twitter, and I tweet miracles out about vaccination eighteenth, disturbs me when say these idiots they're stupid. And that's you're never gonna convince people by doing that. I personally am not a fan of mandatory vaccination. I think is counterproductive. I think people have to come to the decision. I think we have to make it difficult to say, no. But I think that certain point we have to respect people's choices for better or worse when you say the vaccination rate is eighty five to ninety percent. Have we seen that actively dropping recently? And is there concern there? What we've seen it dropping in parts of Europe, very substantially Britain. For example, where we field is from or that study and a perverse amount of attention. The rates of Emma, Mara vaccination dropped pretty dramatically, and that's concerning. And they're they're paying the price for two. Now. They're more than eight thousand cases of measles in Europe last year, a few dozen deaths. So that that's concerning the permanent Candida is we actually do a very poor job of tracking exhibition. So we don't the short answer is. We don't know we have little studies here and there where we can look and see how many people are vaccinated, but there's no central registry for many years public health. People have been calling for a registry. So we often know when people aren't vaccinated because they get sick. But we don't know how many people actually are vaccinated and that that's problematic. Oh, that's funny 'cause we spoke to take via grant and Eric Andrew g about the data deficit last week. And and I didn't realize that it would impact that as well. Yeah. That's a very good example of of a serious data deficit in one that's becoming more and more alarming as these outbreaks. Because it's really important to know who's not vaccinated. So if you take the Vancouver school, for example, they did a big panic. You know, we have to find out who's not vaccinated and turn note about thirty people in the school and they've been sent home. So they're withdrawn from school to not risk being exposed is this something as a as a health reporter is this something you see in other issues that you cover this hesitancy to believe medical science. Or is this a problem? Kind of unique to vaccinations is particularly severe with vaccination, but it's not unique Bill Clinton issues. People worry about about food. They worry about prescription drugs. You know, a lot of people's I'm not gonna take that heart drug. I'm gonna take my Ruta Valerian or something like that. So people have this odd notion of something is better because it's natural. And I use that word in quotes. Because not sure what that means. Most drugs are derived from plants. So there's these weird distinctions that we make we often look for magical solution. And alternative products alternative vaccine. Look compelling because nobody says anything bad for about them be essentially, they don't work. So they don't harm you the reality of drugs that I'd like to remind people livery drug that has benefit has a potential downside. And we shouldn't hide that. And I write openly about that. I think that's part of convincing people you have to tell them. Yes. Vaccines can harm you sometimes? But in a very small number of cases. And when they do the state, I think has an obligation to compensate, and and we do have compensation plans in some parts of Canada for people who are vaccine damage is the terminology, and that's the reality some drugs do harm, but they do harm than the underlying disease. Is this feel you like we are questioning medical science more than we used to or sort of moving away from it or at least in parts of the population. Oh, I don't think. So, you know, the the anti vaccine movement was much stronger one hundred fifty years ago than it was today. Montreal had where I live. Had the biggest outbreak of smallpox in in the history of Canada, hundreds of children were dying. And there were, you know, many as twenty thousand people who went out in what was the small city at the time and protested against vaccines now. Now, we have the internet. So the internet spreads stuff very quickly. But it the their version of the internet than back in the nineteen twenties at the turn of the century. People would put on the coffins of their children killed by vaccination. When in fact, they were killed by by smallpox is really interesting history to NC vents the nation. It's it's been around since Jenner developed the first vaccine in seventeen seventy six and it will be with us forever. I didn't know any of that. Yeah. It's a lots of interesting history and medicine, and if you I'm a big fan of reading history of medicine informs, I think a lot of what goes on today. You know, there's that saying if you don't know your history, you're doomed to repeat it. And that's very true in healthcare. It really does seem like smaller pockets. Of militant opinion, get blown out of proportion when it comes to issues like this. Well, what we have today is a much more effective loudspeaker than we've ever had. And it's called the internet. So very obscure opinions can be magnified tremendously in a in a way that couldn't be before and they play into fears. They play into beliefs. A lot of the the outbreak of infectious disease happen in religious communities. We can't hide that some of them are very anti vaccination. There's a big break in New York now among a historic Jewish community, which doesn't believe in vaccinations with kind of predictable where these things will happen. And we have to find ways of countering that I know you mentioned that you're not a fan of forced vaccination. But what are are there any legal options that could be affected because when you sort of look at this discussion on on the internet or or even even a newspaper as you see people suggesting perhaps a tax or charge charges of negligence or that? Kind of thing. Is there anything that you think would work from sort of a legal framework? I think we have to make it difficult for people for example to enroll their children in school. If they're not backs needed in daycares. So the question becomes how how difficult you make it? So I think what the evidence shows is that if parents have a child who's not Faxon, do you have to bring them in you have to make them justify it. You have to talk to them about the option alternatives. You have to talk to them about how they their children are endangering other children. But I think what you want to avoid the problem with right bands is who gets punished it's not the parent who gets punished it's the child. So then what happens is they retreat to a lot of people who are very fiercely anti vaccine just home school. And then we just don't know we don't know who the enemy is anymore because we don't know who is infected. So I think it's finding this balance between encouraging people, and then some a little bit of carrot a little bit of stick and trying to find the right right balance. And and most. People were vaccine hesitant do come around aside from this one two percent of people who you'll never convince. And I think they probably you just kind of write them off how worried about this. Should we be given that we're seeing more and more breaks? I think we should be fairly worried. People have forgotten how awful things like, you know, I in my childhood vaccines. I had measles mumps. I had the chicken pox. And each time really bad things happen to people in my cohort. Kids died kids ended up with brain damage in the area of polio. People ended up with severe disabilities for life end up in hiring lungs. They're they're real consequences to all this stuff. So there are people who say, you know, these things are benign, we all had the diseases in her childhood, and we survived and that's true. But many of us didn't survive, and we we can't forget those those voices that were silenced as someone who both as you mentioned kind of studies the history of this stuff. But also probably has this conversation a lot. You personally frustrated about the fact that it seems like we're doing it again. Oh, yeah. It does get frustrating that you have these same discussions over and over again. But I think that's the reality. You know, people become new parents. They are concerned their their fears are are legitimate to are are there valid if they're not legitimate. So I think we have to give people that that's slack. And we have to invest in education, and some of the blame to be honest goes back to public health care communication. We treat public health too often like a religion, you know, just do this and trust me, and we're not in trusting era. That's good for many reasons, but as bad for some so I think we have to we have to do the homework. We have to do the education we have to do the promotion sometimes we have to do the punishment. But all these elements have to be thought through we can't just do them. We tend to do them reactively houses outbreak, and we panic we're going to punish those kids, and that's never going to be effective on a personal level. It's just so hard for me to. Understand. What is what is happening in the minds of people who don't vaccinate their kids. And I don't say that with like, oh, they're dumb or anything. I just I can't see it that way. So we had a daughter a year and a half ago. And they asked us what vaccines we were going to give her, and I said all of them everything you have. And I I don't I just don't it's so hard for me to see it from their point of view. And maybe that's why it's hard for us to talk to them. I don't see too. I don't have any difficulty. I see you know, who looks to hurt their baby to give them all those needle. Sometimes you you feel like your child's pincushions. So that's part of it. So I think we we've for a long time just said you gotta suffer through it. There's a real movement this if you look on the internet agreed movement called it doesn't have to hurt about, you know, mitigating pain. So you make sure the kids needles don't hurt and that makes a real difference. A lot of people around vaccine if you probe not if you scratch not too far beyond the certain below the surface. You find who I hated getting my back seen as a kid. It was so painful, I was petrified. And we we. We can't allow ourselves to lose people for those reading Monday and things. So there's that nobody wants to hurt their kid. Nobody wants her autism move from worried about that. Maybe there is a small maybe they're wrong, scientists often wrong. So there's these dotes come in. Then you see some guy in the internet saying, I've got this magic Nosotros vaccine it works better. No needle you just take this pill while it's sugar pill. But hey, you're not harming your kids. So that's tractive. So there's all these things build on each other. You hear stories did you hear about so and so's second cousin died because he took a vaccine so stories get built into mythology. So there's any number of reasons that people listen to or get scared by so there's all these myths that we have to counter, and we have to counter them constantly. A lot Andre. Thank you too important topic. Andre Picard health reporter for the global mail. That was the big story for more from us at us up at the big story, podcast dot CA or frequency podcast network dot com while you're there check of three trips ahead with marina Holloway. It is the best travel podcast. I am not biased. And we are in your social media feeds at the big story. F P N on Twitter at frequency pods on Twitter. We are also at frequency pods on Facebook on Instagram. And of course, we are wherever you get podcast. And I mean that we're on apple Google, Stitcher. Spotify radio public antenna pod and something called dogcatcher. So if you find us there Lisa rating, leave us a review, I'm Jordan throwing thanks for listening. We'll talk tomorrow.
"andre picard" Discussed on The Nutrition Diva's Quick and Dirty Tips for Eating Well and Feeling Fabulous
"T dot com and the code nutrition diva. I'm back talking with you only freed behalf about the recently released Canadian food guides and food policy as its volving around the world as we try to balance the needs of our health, our planet and also, yes, our our farmers and our industries. No, you only son have commented that the new Canadian food guide idealize is diet that some people may find out of reach financially or even in terms of the time required to procure and prepare the meals. I don't know if you saw a column that was written in the globe and mail by Andre Picard who wrote healthy eating as it is proposed in Canada's food guide is a privilege of wealth, the symbolic fruity nutty grainy plate is actually out of reach for many who struggle with poverty, food, insecurity, and health illiteracy, and quote, and I guess he's saying, yeah. All these beautiful fresh, fruits and vegetables and nuts. They're going to be a lot more expensive than fast, food, burgers and French fries. And not nearly as convenient. Yeah. I don't disagree at all. I think though, and I'm not sure that Andre is suggesting that it should a food guy can't possibly address issues like food, insecurity. I think you can put a spotlight on them. And it can highlight the fine that there are incredible disparities in Canada, especially looking at our north and the cost of healthy food in the north is staggeringly high. But I I'm not sure it's so much criticism of the food guide as it is a criticism of sort of food and poverty in Canada as a whole, and so yes, this food guide for some will be out of reach that would be true for any food guide. And I hope that this food guide, which in fact, does in it's it's got a it's not just a one piece of paper that shows a picture of a plate with food on it. There's a documentation and guidance that goes along with it where they talk. About social equity, and disparity, and culture and food. And yeah, it's a real issue. And so my hope is is that having food guides out there to highlight what we should be striving four as a nation perhaps in terms of dietary patterns helps to provide public health advocates who are working in areas of Putin security, the means with which to help lobby for the things they need to see change. But. Yeah, poverty, and food, insecurity. They're huge problems in every country is certainly including Canada. And no food guide will ever be able to address that in my. Of course, well said, and, but as you point out these food guys, even if every Canadian printing them out and sticking them to the refrigerator as a guideline for what they're going to eat that day. They do go on to influence things like school nutrition programs and other governmental programs, and so there may actually be a way in which these indirectly influence, and and hopefully help lift up some of those other programs to address some of these other issues like food, insecurity and poverty. There's no doubt whatsoever. So people who are kids, for instance, who who already are experiencing food, insecurity, they are already at risk for chronic diseases in a manner that more privileged kids are not having those kids, for instance, be provided, you know, free juice with their breakfast programs or be sold chocolate milk with their milk programs in the name of health so to speak. It's it's counterproductive. It. It it harms them more. And so again, having a food guy that changes policies, so it will for sure Chaim school food policy. In regard to circus. We'd Milkin provision of juice since the food guide recommends that rightly so I think that both are not healthy beverages. It's gonna change institutional food so hospitals and nursing homes, and again that would apply especially here in Canada where we have so shies medicine that would apply to everyone everywhere. I'm hoping that it has a real impact on marketing and marketing craze again on everybody across the socioeconomic spectrum, but having the food guide that no longer talks about you must have this many servings of this that or the other is going to change the the food industries ability to suggest that people must eat, certain foods and similarly in regards to a juice and milk which had been pushed in the past by the food industry on the basis of the food guide saying you should eat them. Not may improve choices. Unconsciously across all socio economics spectra in Canada. I think it's going to help public health advocates to push for things like bans to advertising to kids to reforms of front of package. Clayton's those are all good things. And those are things that will benefit all Canadians, regardless of their backgrounds, and so yeah, I think this guy is going to help. But no, it most certainly will not somehow solves the issue of poverty and food insecurity and camp. And of course, that's not what its intention was. So. You know when they've gotten so much, right? I mean, it just seems like this has taken a giant leap forward and several really important areas of health nutrition that you've outlined for us here. It seems a little unfair then to look for ways in which it failed to measure up. But was there anything about this guide that you were disappointed by that you see as you know, the next beachfront for improvement next. I mean, you you don't do this every twelve years the way we do it in the states. I think it's been what twelve years since your last. So while it every five years. That's right. We do it seems like randomly twelve years. The past one was fifteen years my hope in. So this is one of the criticisms, I have although it's not founded yet, but I hope that in the future, we will see much more frequent revisions, and actually, you know, treating it almost like a living document, the fact that juice and chocolate milk had not been removed until now despite health Canada's own admission that they should not have been in the food guide as early as back in twenty four, gene. We should be able to modify this on an as needed basis, and I think we to modify it more quickly. So that although it's not a shortcoming. It's certainly a concern of mine that it's going to be another. You know, twelve years before we see the next iteration in it need not be like that. Especially now in the age of the digital delivery of of information have a wishlist for what modifications you might like to see addressed next role. So that was one actually so having an actual in the states. You guys have a mandated we've got to do this every five years. I'd love to see that happen here as well. Rather than open for that liked to see there be actual, you know, legislation and language around. We are committed to doing this every five years, for instance, the only other thing and truly it's really it's nitpicking. But the other thing that I think was more missed opportunity than available in the food guy was there was no guidance provide. Headed for nutrition, kids, and sport. And I think that that is a very real area of misinformation with the rise of sport drinks, or so called for drinks with this this sort of push of you need to have chocolate milk. If you run around a sports field in the summer for an hour, the notion that we hydrate very rapidly. These are all industry push notions that aren't true. But as any parent who has kids who are playing organized sports. No, you know, the the sidelines are full junk food, and I think having guidance from the food guide on this area, which I think there's sufficient evidence for them to guy would have been really beneficial. Now, again, the good news is that with this guides digital delivery. There's nothing stopping Health Canada from building this end. And so I've logged about this last week and I've spoken with as officials from Health Canada voted already, and I'm hoping that we will see some guidance come out. About this before before too long. We'll Dr Friedhof. I wanna thank you so much for joining us today with your very complete analysis and insights into this process. It's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Always a pleasure to be here. Dr is the author of the diet fix is a wonderful book that has as gold helping people to stop dieting and start them on a path to sustainable weight loss, which as all of you know, is a cause near and dear to my heart and his blog, which is a lately a lot about the Canadian food guide. But on really all things food nutrition-related is at weighty matters dot C, a weighty matters that see a it's a wonderful blog. Dr Friedhof is also active on social media. You can catch him there. And if you have questions or comments feel free to leave them on our show notes, which are at intrusion diva dot we can tips dot com or you can find me on social media. I'm on Facebook and Twitter at who Tricia diva thanks so much for listening and have a great week.