20 Episode results for "Amitav"

179 Author Adiba Jaigirdar

What Book Hooked You?

29:51 min | 11 months ago

179 Author Adiba Jaigirdar

"This is what book cooked you. I'm actually and thanks for listening. On this episode I get to talk to Adiba Geiger. Dr Whose debut the head of wars is out now from St Kitts. One of the great things about this podcast is not only getting to talk to a lot of writers beginning to talk to those that live not necessarily in the United States and was one of those. She's joining us from Ireland. And we talk about the book scene there and even so much as getting her book and how she came to be a writer so this was a great conversation. Hope you enjoy it. Solicited so ADIBA. What Book Hooked You on the book? That hooked me was definitely mallory black. Men's not sent crosses. Have you heard of it? I haven't so tell me about this. Yeah it was actually was a really important buck over here in the UK and Ireland Like it had a huge cultural impact I don't think it had that huge effect in the US unfortunately But it's basically this dystopia novel where Like race dynamics are flipped so in this novel black people are the ones who are seen as superior whereas why people are seen as inferior So basically black people are called Crosses because linked to the Bible and Cristina de and why people are called knotts. Like there's euros there. Nothing and in this world. It's basically kind of like a love story with a kind of Thriller Element Between a not an across Anyways I think it came out in two thousand one And it was actually I think the first time I read a book with people of Color in it and I think it was the first time that I really saw like an author of color as well so for me it was like Ed really really huge thing to see that to see characters. I mean. Obviously I'm not black so dark actress who looked like me exactly but character who were you know Darker skinned not just white people And it Kinda have. It was kind of the thing that made me realize that I could also I guess right stories were about people of Color Great. And when do you remember? I reading this book. What time in your life so I read it when I was a teenager. I can't remember exactly how old I was but I remember that like I got out of my school library An all my friends are reading it and especially like my friends who are also people of Color we were just like. We were all like in love with this book. Was it a score mentor? Was it just be because I don't have a reference point for it wasn't just a popular? Kind of cultural cultural. In the sense of a socially popular was being passed around word of mouth. That sort of thing so I think at the time when I read it. It hadn't quite gained the popularity that it may be Got In the future after that but I I remember picking it out of my school libraries so my school library was quite small We didn't have like a lot of books there. So one of my friends had literally said she was going to read the entire school library by the time she finished And I don't think it was possible for her so it wasn't that small but it was quite small and I think this was one of the only books and that was written by an author of color in my school library so it was something that grabbed me as well and it was. It wasn't entire series And after that followed the series I think the last book of the series just came out last year and said it's been going on for quite a long time and that brings me to sort of your relationship with books. This was obviously in high school in the school library. Where you and have always been a big reader. Yeah I've always been a huge reader. I don't think I remember a time when I wasn't like obsessed with books and reading and when I was younger ice read you know those ladybird books that you could get like ca chapter books. Yeah how used to be obsessed with those books. I had like an entire like little cupboard. Filled with them And because I didn't live in Bangladesh All the time I used to live six months in Bangladesh and six months in Saudi Arabia and my books were capped with my grandmother and Bangladesh. I remember I might come back to my grandmother's house. I would like go back. And reread all my ladybird books And I used to I to be like so obsessed with reading. I would try and steal my brother's like books that he had to read for school just because I didn't have like in Bangladesh there aren't A lot of books available all the time so. I didn't have as many books that I wanted to read so I try and steal them for my brother and try to read them secretly. And what we're if you could have had your choice at any point in time During those years what were your favorite genre or hurt topics or tropes within books that you were always looking for gravitating towards. I'm I think there wasn't anything specific that I gravitated towards especially because at that time I didn't have access to up books for me to kind of gravitate towards something. I would just read anything that I was given But as I got a little bit older One of the big grabbed me and this kind of cliche but it was Harry Potter So I think when I was younger I did have gravitate towards fancy books like Harry Potter Just because it was like escapist fiction and also like I think I had a connection with my brother as well read it together so it was obviously Harry Potter was a huge cultural phenomenon. And at what point then through all of this or maybe even happened later. That you kind of got in your mind that you wanted to write Whether that was even with dreams of being a writer at yet or not so I think like with the reading. I don't really remember a time when I didn't enjoy like at least storytelling So since ever since I was very young I used to love kind of taking stories. I'd read or washed on TV. And kind of basically writing fiction my head and like acting it out with like my friends or just like with myself basically amps so I was really obsessed with like stories and storytelling so when I kind of learned how to write. I think that just came naturally from the storytelling that I was already obsessed with. What forms did your writing? Typically take what were you typically writing about What were the common adventures that that would you would kind of be thinking through or or writing or even wanting to write. I'm so when I was a kid I wrote kind of like contemporary fantasy. I suppose And I was writing a lot about people who didn't look like me and I think a lot of it was that I would read books and Dr Base in the West and had western characters and I felt like I had to regurgitate the exact same things into what I was reading so I would be writing things that were said in like American schools even though obviously like I'd never been to America but it was just what I was seeing and what I was writing. And so what point then did you Take your writing and really start doing it. In a way where the goal or the end game for it was to become published. I'm I think that would happen actually quite late in life when I was probably After I finished my masters so I was about twenty one or twenty two and I thought like I'd already been writing a lot but I never thought I had written. Anything was good enough to be published I didn't really know all the INS and outs of publishing But Iran back time I was. I felt like I was writing. Things are more honest to myself and who I was and I felt like I'd reached a point in my life where it was something that I could pursue and but I think also what helped me was Seeing more people of Color in publishing and seeing more books by people of Color and that kind of made me realize that this was a thing that was possible for me and were there particular authors or books That really stick out to you as has been the the kind of the touchstones or the ones that can get them. Maybe the most credit for inspiring you so when I I am thought about getting published. I actually was writing adults literary fiction and that was the first book that I was crying with so probably some of the writers who inspired me there where I'm writers like trump. Hurry and Amitav Ghosh. So they're like writers were from West Bengal and before them. I had never really seen Bengali writers gained the recognition Writing in English and gaining recognition in the West Side Pink They definitely made me think that I'm yours possible. I'm an in terms of in Waie. It wasn't necessarily specific writer bite. I think I was really inspired by Devi pet. If you've heard of Bob. Yeah so when I went on twitter or when I joined twitter and I saw deep happening. I think that was something. That really motivated me. Because it's obviously the space where Writers or marginalized writers are encouraged to take up space and to tell their stories And I think that really made me think it's definitely possible for me to be a published author as well yes. I've we had chance talked to many that kind of share that story that That inspired them or Devi. Pit was kind of their springboard. So you mentioned that you were initially writing Some adult contemporary so. When did it sort of shift for you or the focus ended up being more on Waie? I'm so basically wrote this one adult literary fiction book and it was actually my first book with a Bengali character. So my first book which was kind of close to who I was and which was owned voice says and right after I wrote that it was it was a story that was very difficult for me to write. It was set in Bangladesh and it was really like about grief and right after I finished writing it and I was querying it and it was pretty going anywhere. I pod that I really needed to write something. That was the exact opposite of thought so I need to write something. That was a little bit happier new dry. Something that was like funny That was more lighthearted so I decided to write the Hannah wars and it wasn't but I thought I was gonNA write something why it was that. I wanted to write something light hearted and adjust. I'm made sense for the book that I thought to be. Young adult grew. Well since you mentioned. Let's start talking about it Your book the Henna Wars comes out from Page Street kids so giving synopsis of what the Books. About so the book about this sixteen year. Old Bengali girl called Nisha and she lives in Ireland and She loves doing. It's something that she picked up from my grandmother. It's a tradition from our culture and she decides to come out your parents as lesbian but they are not as accepting as she would have hoped they would be so they kind of Deal with it by ignoring it and like it would just silence and at the same time As school friend from back in the day reappears in her life And new kind of has a crush on her but they're both Starting a business for a school project so there is all of these feelings that Michelle has for this girl but also she's obviously her competitor and she is culturally appropriate from the shop so she has to navigate both of these feelings together. And where was the initial idea? And we know you're mentioned how it was kind of a a breaker kind of a one eighty from your previous book. So when you kind of made that turn. Why did you settle on that story? What was that initial spark for it? So the initial idea for it came from Hannah And it was because I was in Bangladesh and I had all of these Hannah tubes with me and I decided I would try to learn how to do up but I wasn't particularly good at it so I decided that I would try to radical character who I could live vicariously through basically and it just gave birth to this idea and how soon into it Did you realize that this was what you were writing? How was best for the white category? I think I I think it was very much towards the beginning of the planning process because my initial idea ipod. Ub Cue to do like a middle grade story with two girls who are like maybe friends and they were Like competing with Hannah. But then I got the idea of the cultural appropriation storyline and I tie about like Neshat. Been Queer and IPOD. The Dow would work really well within Y rather than an MG. So you're writing the story. I get a complete and you're and you're going to then pursue trying to get an agent and through all those steps. How did that go for you and is it? I'm thinking because you are not in America and there was that make it more difficult so I think I was actually quite lucky with a getting an agent because it happened I think quite fast for me. Ben does for a lot of other people. I think I signed an agent within maybe two months of starting to Starting my search which is really fast it. It was I suppose a little bit more difficult for me as an international author but most agents Do Sign International Authors and. I think I'm really lucky. Because my agent. He's really from Germany so he's obviously very tuned in to like Europe which really helps And I don't I don't really think when it comes to quarrying their particular barriers As an international author and especially because a lot of agents in the. Us Do have do assign authors from all all over the world. What I found I think difficult was actually searching for agents here because I was searching for agents in Ireland and in the UK while simultaneously searching in the US. And I just found the process so much easier in the US I think US agents were so ben to receiving diverse voices. And they're really. I think so. Many of them are dedicated to supporting marginalize. Alters and I find that is definitely not the case in the you can highland. It's much more difficult to break into the industry here as marginalize out there and living in Ireland But very much connected to. Us publishing Do you ever find that. There are books that are being talked up and promoted That are harder to get in Ireland. Just because of the fact that they are they haven't been right haven't been signed over and you so you have to ship them internationally has have you found that to be an issue as a reader. Yeah definitely I think there are a lot of books that don't make it overseas I mean it's it's a good thing because obviously we live in a global world so Like a lot of independent stores will get in Books if you order them in even if there aren't rights to it so I have seen some books in shops that I wouldn't have expected to see here And because of like the book depository and stuff you can get any book here but I have noticed like sometimes I'll go into bookshops and a look for specific books and I won't be able to find them and it's usually because they're the rights haven't sold here and even noticed it with like really really big books that had kid the New York Times and stuff and I'll go to shop and I'd be like this must be here and but it's not and with your with your writing. Have you always sort of been grounded are most comfortable within? Contemporary did say there was a little bit contemporary sci-fi contemporary fantasy but has contemporary sort of really. Do you consider that sort of your writing. Genre the area that you feel most comfortable winner. Would you like to explore outside of that as well? I think contemporary is definitely the genre that I am the best at writing and it is the John that I feel the most comfortable in but I think I'm the kind of person who loves to explore different things so I'm not afraid off kind of trying new genres and seeing what I can do with them so I would love to try different genres. I definitely don't want to ride just contemporary but it is John Rat that I feel the most comfortable and yes and do you feel when it comes to your writing process. Is there any sort of a habit that you have that I think Works best for you. Any any trait to your approach to writing that you feel you get the most success out of. I'm to be honest. Not really and the reason for that is because I try not to build too many habits when it comes to writing. I think that for me the creative process is about can of changing things up and trying different things so If I'm writing a new book for example and I tried to do things that I try to do with a last book that I was writing I find that Rather than making it easier it often blocks me and so I just try to change up my process Whatever I can so even if it's like trying to write in different places Trying to plan differently. I'm trying to write unlike like different. Word processors things like that It really helped me with my creative process and through this process from starting the head of wars as sort of this Change of pace for you to your your publishing process. This question may be of the answer. This may be obvious given our current state of affairs in the world but what has been maybe the most challenging the most surprising thing out of this whole process for you answer is obvious. I think it's definitely it's definitely like this pandemic Just because obviously nobody could have seen it coming. I think when I when I got my book deal I had. I had kind of taught about the worst possible situation with the book. Coming Out It just like I try to think of the worst possible situation for everything because I think it helped me deal with You know whatever happens but I think even in my wildest imaginations I couldn't imagine like the becoming during a pandemic absolutely no absolutely not So how when your Reading Preferences You're looking for books. How do you navigate that? What typically what's a book a Trope A genre that that's automatically going to get you interested in. Maybe even you know if contemporary has already we're interested what kind of trope or different different aspect of within contemporary. Are you always sort of a sucker for? I'm honestly I read really really widely so I think if you give me a book I will be interested in it. Most of the time What I really gravitate towards I really love Like romantic comedies. I love breeding them. Especially I love. Queer comedies. Or one of my favorite tropes is fake dating. I just think it's such a fun trope so every time. I see a book with fake dating. I go for it. Your book is coming out from. Page street kids here in the US. Is it coming out in Ireland? Are you going to be able to get your own book? It's it's not command Ireland right now. No but Some really wonderful booksellers from waterstone's in the UK have pushed for the book to be included in waterstones So I think that is going to happen to them And we do have in waterstones branch in Dublin. So hopefully. If I can get out of my house I will be able to see it. Ends up workshops. Hope you can you can and do you have in Ireland. What like is there a is why popular and is it prominent? You know if you would go into the bookstores just as it is become here in the US. I think why is definitely quite prominent nyland maybe not as prominent as in the US but it is prominent and I think Some Afar Biggest AND UP AND COMING WRITERS ARE Y writers So a few Y writers from Ireland that I love our ceremony Griffin and Deirdre Sullivan and they write really wonderful fantasy stories. That are usually sat in Ireland And we have. We have like a big festival here as well. And we often fly in Like operas from the UK and from the US. I think The year before last. We had Patrick. Mass come in for our way festival which was obviously really big and I think we had e lockhart one year as well which was great so yeah there definitely Quite a big waste base here and I've talked to a lot of writers and many of them are commenting always been That what has helped them through. This process has been Finding a community of writers are are are book lovers at least have. Have you found that to be similar? In what and if so what has? Where have you found your community your I think I'm finance committee has definitely really helped me. Especially I think as a marginalized writer. There's a lot of stuff That happens in publishing that you are. That is difficult to navigate by yourself if you don't have Other friends who understand publishing so it's definitely important to find your community I found my community mostly online and most of them I think are like UK based writers though there are few like outside of the UK as well But yeah like just through twitter Getting to know people Like talking about writing and Publishing. That's right managed to find my community great. Well let's wind things down and ask you a few questions as we do the first one being. What is your favorite movie? That's based on a book so this'll probably not be surprising. But it's To all the boys I've loved before I Love Love Love the book. I love the series itself and I just loved the movie. I think they did such a wonderful job. Adopting it because they they managed to capture. I think what's the heart of the book and they managed to capture like the Voice of Florida. Gene like her innocence and just like the lightheartedness and all the fun and the book and they still made it into a movie. That was something different that offered something a little different. Whenever I'm feeling like down I watched all the boys because field of movie. It's great next question. Is there a series or just an individual book that you're willing to admit you've either never read or never finished? Yeah Lord of the Rings. I've never read Lord. The rings popular answer popular in many up there like you and then finally. What is the last great book that you've read so the last great book I read was late to the party by Kelly? Quindlin which is a wire contemporary out At the end of this month I believe ad is basically about this girl who is very much in her comfort zone with her two friends and doing the things that she does which is like hang out with her friends and watching movies et Cetera And she and her friends kind of pink. Maybe they need to push their comfort zone a little bit and she doesn't want to do that but she accidentally ends up meeting this guy at a party that she didn't want to go to And making all these new friends and trying all of these different things And she ends up really enjoying it and finding a version of herself. That's a little bit different than who she expected to be. So it's like this really sweet summary Novel at had like a little. I'm F- F love story as well in their group. Well Debate the wars is out from page street kids. Congratulations and I wish you in this book. All the best. Thank you so much and that wraps up this episode. I WanNa thank you for joining me again her book. The wars is out now from pastry kids. So I hope you'll check that out and if you haven't already please subscribe to the podcast. Share it with others. We'd love to share these conversations with a lot of great authors foreign wide. I'm Brock Shelley and until next time keep reading.

Ireland writer United States Bangladesh UK twitter America Adiba Geiger Dr Whose St Kitts Ed Amitav Ghosh Harry Potter Hannah New York Times Waie Michelle knotts Cristina de
Episode 57: Italian Inmates Break Out, Promise to Return. Donkey Arrested for Gambling in Pakistan. Artificial Brains Need to Sleep.

Strange News Daily

11:10 min | 10 months ago

Episode 57: Italian Inmates Break Out, Promise to Return. Donkey Arrested for Gambling in Pakistan. Artificial Brains Need to Sleep.

"It's a basic training. People need each other. It's why Penn. Fed credit unions I. members joined together for a better financial future for eighty five years. We've been there for our members and communities and we're here for you today. We can help you bridge a financial gap. Save wisely. Make confident decisions with your money. We know we are always stronger and better together. That's why we hope you'll join. US membership is open to everyone. Apply Today Panther. Dot Org insured by NCUA. Strange News daily is a production of iheartmedia. In a world full of bizarre events, unsolved mysteries and two billion stories from all corners of the globe. Some news gets lost in the shuffle. This is your gateway to the stories on the fringe of the mainstream map. These are your dispatches in the dark I'm Ben Bullen and this is the strange news daily. Our first story today. To prisoners in Italy. Have temporarily escaped. How do we know this escape is temporary well? They left a note saying so. Two inmates who escaped from a prison in Rome Italy last week left guards. Courtesy note say they had business to take care of, but would be back shortly. The two cousins divides Zuganov. IQ and Lil amitav Ovik broke out of the Rebibbia prison overnight on June second. They scaled a wall using a water hose that was left out in a courtyard, however before the pair made their escape, they left a note in their cell, saying that they had personal reasons, they needed to fleet. They were driven by quote, the need to protect their children from a nasty business. They had gotten themselves into according to Republika daily a local newspaper. The inmates specified that only they could make things right because their wives were also both currently in jail. At the end of the note, the two men promised to return around fifteen days once everything was sorted. These men were serving sentences until two thousand, twenty, nine for several nonviolent crimes, including fraud and receiving stolen goods. Italian prisons are to put it bluntly. No Walk in the Piazza the system is notorious for overcrowding with more than sixty thousand prisoners detained in a system designed to hold only forty, six, thousand, eight, hundred, seventy, five, this overcrowding taxes, the prison system's ability to meet basic needs like accommodation, healthcare or rehabilitation. And back in May, the government met with enormous public backlash when fears of a corona virus outbreak in the prisons led Italy to move some three hundred and seventy-six inmates from high security prison cells to house arrest. The end mates by the way that were moved were not all small time nonviolent offenders. They included international drug traffickers and affiliates of Italy's organized crime gangs, including three serving time under a harsh isolation regime that is only reserved for top mafia bosses. The. Our second story today keeping with the theme of crime. Let's head over to Pakistan. Where one member of a recently arrested gambling ring has made international headlines. Because it is a donkey. That's right. Police in Pakistan arrested a donkey for its involvement in a gambling race. The bazaar arrests started a laugh riot online and you can see a video of the animal left tied, looking pretty sedate and calm outside of the police station. This incident was reported in a city called Rahim Yar Khan. It's in the Punjab province. In eastern Pakistan, the local police apprehended eight men altogether for their alleged involvement in this donkey race, and they were gambling on the outcome. However, when the cops went to arrest this gambling ring, they decided to nab the donkey to. During the arrests, they recovered one hundred twenty thousand Pakistan rupees from the suspects claiming that they were using the money to bet on donkey race. The suspects in the animal were arrested Doodoo Punjab's Prevention of Gambling Ordinance. A spokesperson for the Rahim Yar Khan Police Station B division, said quote. The donkey has been arrested as it had been named the first report along with other suspects. The donkey is currently been tied outside of the police station. According to another report, the authorities later clarified that since the accused men and the donkey have been arrested on the spot, and both of them have been named in those initial reports. None of them can be released. Donkeys are frequently used as beasts of burden in rural areas of Pakistan and so it's not uncommon for people to hold donkey cart races and bet on the outcome just yesterday. The court handed custody of the donkey to its owner. One Ghulam Mustafa was also known by the name Kakha. On the condition that he would keep the donkey safe until the case was decided in court. And I can imagine what we're all wondering. Who is this mysterious donkey? Currently? The donkey's name has not been released to the public perhaps to protect its identity. Our Third Story Today Philip K Dick Famously asked whether android dream of electric sheep, and now scientists are wondering if real life artificial brains may also need to catch a few Z's. Los Alamos National Laboratory computer. Scientist Eugene Watkins Enter team have concluded that artificial brains will almost certainly need periods of rest that offer benefits similar to those sleep provides to our own brains, Watkins says we study spiking neural networks which are systems that learn much as living brain stew. We're fascinated by the prospect of training a neuromorphic processor in a manner analogous to how humans and other biological systems learn from their environment during childhood. The discovery about sleep came around because the research team was working to develop neural networks that closely approximate the way humans and other biological systems learn. The group initially was struggling with stabilizing these neural networks after they were undergoing unsupervised dictionary training dictionary training by the way involves classifying objects without having prior examples to compare them to. Watkins and her team found that the networks simulations became unstable after continuous periods of unsupervised learning when they expose the networks to states that are analogous to the waves that living brains experienced during sleep, stability was restored. Walking says it was as if we were giving the neural networks, the equivalent of a good night's rest part of the problem here comes from that attempt to make artificial neural networks function like biological brains. LOS ALAMOS COMPUTER SCIENTISTS AND STUDY Co. author Gary Kenyon says the issue of how to keep learning systems from becoming unstable, really only rises when attempting to utilize biologically realistic, spiking neuromorphic processors or win trying to understand biology itself. Kenyan goes on to add the vast majority of machine learning, deep learning, and a researchers never encountered this issue, because in the very artificial systems they study, they have the luxury of performing global mathematical operations that have the effect of regulating the overall dynamic gain of the system in other words, those neural networks those examples machine learning. Don't work white the same way that human brain does. The researchers characterized this decision to expose the networks to an artificial analog of sleep kind of as a last ditch effort to stabilize them the experimented with multiple types of noise. Think of the static. You might hear between stations while you're tuning and old school radio. that. The best results came when they used waves of something called. Garcion does this includes a large range of frequencies and amplitude. The team currently believes that this noise mimics the input received by biological neurons during slow. Wave Sleep. This is exciting because the results suggest that slow wave sleep may act in part to ensure that quarter cle neurons maintain stability and don't hallucinate. Watkins will be presenting her research at the women in Computer Vision Workshop on June fourteenth in Seattle, Washington. That's all for now. We've been asking you to Chime in with suggestions for stories, you think your fellow listeners should know more about the hit us with your best or worst puns, bad jokes, and to tell us about your personal experience in your neck of the global woods. Let us know what's happening by tagging Hashtag, strange daily on twitter, or reach out to me directly I'm Ben Bullen H. W. on twitter or at Ben? Bull in on Instagram, thanks as always to our super producer Dylan. Fagin our research associate, SAM, tea-garden, and most importantly. Thanks to you for tuning in I'm Ben, bullet? We'll see you tomorrow until then stay stage. It's a basic truth. People need each other. It's why Penn. Fed credit unions I members joined together for a better financial future for eighty five years. We've been there for our members and communities and we're here for you today we can help you bridge financial gap. Save wisely and make confident decisions with your money. We know we are always stronger and better together. That's why we hope you'll join. US membership is open to everyone. Apply today, pen dot. Org insured by NCUA.

Pakistan Eugene Watkins Italy NCUA Penn Rahim Yar Khan Police Station Ben US Ben Bullen Rahim Yar Khan Strange News Ghulam Mustafa twitter Lil amitav Ovik Rome Italy Doodoo Punjab fraud Philip K Dick Zuganov
Cenk DEVASTATES Trump Flunky

The Young Turks

58:44 min | 1 year ago

Cenk DEVASTATES Trump Flunky

"Hey guys you've heard of the young turks podcast because you're listening to right now but <hes> make sure that you subscribe to five star rating. If you like it thank you for listening all right well. The turks jank an experiment. You guys <hes> hell show fascinating day in america <hes> so so we've got <hes> two hours of action pack news and then in the third hour <hes> what's going to happen is i'm going to interview hassan piker about some of the comments that he made yesterday today on his own twitter channel <hes> and <hes> all right. That's going to be interesting conversation. <hes> and i'm talking about sheffield in the second half of the conversation and he he is one of the founders of newsbusters <hes> which is a was one of the top conservative websites in the country <hes> and went after media for being too liberal. He is now a progressive. His transition story is amazing. Okay wait till you hear that did he get blue blue pelt. Well wait till the third hour of the young turks where they'll be very many very fascinating conversations and then <hes> and then in the in the second hour richard scowl furniture richard s._e._o. Is gonna join us as part of the panel. He is a former speechwriter for bernie sanders and he's also going to join me in the in the post game. That's the last half hour of the young turks that only the members get t dot com slash joining become a member and and i'll tell you richard about his personal life a a little bit including <hes> how to write speeches for bernie sanders and whether he ever listened to so action packed show <hes>. Let's get sir all right. Jank was on chris cuomo's primetime c._n._n. Show last night debating kaley mcenaney that is the the trump supporting woman woman who he's debated on the show before and there were actually a few topics represented in this segment the first one had to do with the economy and actually really. I liked your answer here jank. I thought this was strong yet. Calm compliment to say yeah. Let's take a look well. It's a debate within the administration. Whether now is the time to give yet another tax cut. This is a key part of the president's strategy <hes> he's having this debate and he's having a publicly in front of in with the american people but tax cuts work. This is the hottest economy on record no arguing with the trump economy. That's why we're going to win. In two thousand twenty. He says the economy is fantastic and we need to cut interest rates. That actually makes no sense at all. If the economy was booming you'd be worried about inflation and you wouldn't be cutting interest rates. You'd actually be increasing interest rates. The reality is that the economy is not booming. Every economists than countries worried about a recession and in fact the trump administration is deeply worried about a recession they just told donors that there was a moderate risk of recession and the only reason they're considering your payroll tax cut which would actually go to the employees is because they know the only thing that actually stimulates the economy is not supply-side economics but actually getting finally the american worker some sort of relief but <hes> and the reason they're considering that now and trump is obviously lying about that he wasn't he's not connected. The recession is because they're really really worried. We're about to hit a recession haley. When we do it. The recession will will you come back here. In mid the supply side economics and tax cuts for the rich. It's really quite disgusting. You're rooting on a recession. I i first of all you did a great job but we gotta talk about the way she handled that because you guys had her cornered the entire time right and and she was very defensive and this is what the right wing does when they're quartered they automatically accused of doing something to intimidate you or to shut you up or to stop a very real point that many americans are feeling right now. Just before we went on air a story broke from time that talked about the boom whom in the service jobs that are available and what's the quality of those jobs little benefits very very low pay. I mean the the average american is struggling right now and if you have the audacity to tell the truth about what's happening with this economy what happened with those trump tax cuts with these corporations corporations and the wealthy actually did with those tax cuts. Oh you're you're rooting rooting for a recession unit root for a recession. You're just telling the truth about all the different things things that the trump administration has done which will lead to a recession so amused by that answer of hers usual so interesting seeing sophisticated economic point. I will counter with something made up tony. I never said i was hoping that a recession would come. I said i was worried. We did a recession would come and in fact if you watch the young turks. I've said that many times. I think it's a bad idea when people like bill maher say <hes>. They're rooting for a recession even fact back yesterday on the program before i went on c._n._n. I said be careful what you wish for <hes> recessions can turn disastrous and affect millions and millions of people. It's a reminded me of the people rooting for trump to win because then things might get better after they get worse. Be careful on things getting worse unfortunately whether we want it or not that recession appears appears to be headed in our direction and and look at a lot of as i said they're the majority of economists certainly agree and are concerned about that <hes> but the the economic theory that has been put on cable news over and over again and never really quite rebutted <hes> certainly not at the quantity the that the right wing puts out a bear message is that this economics don't work the only way to stimulate the economy is actually to get money to average americans so they spending because they're not rich. They don't save it. They immediately put back into the economy that circulates it within the economy and creates a a healthier one and that's why very high marginal tax traits worked for us in the nineteen fifties and sixties we only hear great case of that <hes> every <hes> podcast check out pitchfork economics on our podcasting using network by nick hanauer brilliant businessman capitalist and and warning now my god you've got to watch out if you don't <unk> have better distribution of income our whole economy's going to crash and it's not gonna be good for anyone including the rich <hes> and and if you by the way if you wanna watch the whole <hes> c._n._n. Tannen appearance we put it up on t._r._t. Dot com you can see it there and then finally look i don't want we sold things that she said wrong. Chris and i agreed read the she was wrong. Because she had the facts she misstated the facts she misstated what i said but christmas and agree with me very often including the first comment which is like like it's his right not to agree and that's why he's in the middle <hes> but it's <hes> is the thing that i brought up in the beginning. This is grading. It's what we talked about yesterday. As well as i mentioned the presence of lunatic <hes> and the whole <hes> you know talk of buying greenland and being upset etc and and talking about how he's the second coming of god and chris dismissed it out of hand like oh and we're not gonna do twenty-fifth amendment. Let's get real and talk about real policies yeah so <hes> that's okay. That's that's chris position but you know he's got his own opinions but the only times that we say that keighley's wrong along together is when she stays the factual right of course i mean that's what i mean when i say that you had her you both of you had her cornered when he came to the portions of the segment admit that i saw now one of those portions actually happened to be on gun control as well so let's discuss that a little bit so the topic of donald trump flip flopping on possible gun control legislation came up during this interview and of course mcenaney is going to defend trump and pretend as though he never flip flopped but you really held her feet to the fire so let's take a look background checks is there an appetite or is the atlantic reporting right that the president told the n._r._a. Don't worry about it. It's not going to happen well. I don't believe nick reporting or so called sources but this president is the one who fix the criminal background check system with the fixed knicks act. He wants solutions but he wants solutions uh-huh that work what is the physician said he wants meaningful background checks. We are talking with congress. You're doing a disservice to everyone in this country by not focusing on the real problem problem year which is mental illness hand. We could have kept the a gun out of the end of the park. Leigh's seized a weapon from mentally mentally. Ill individual red flag. Laws said they would do federal background checks caliendo ninety seven percent of americans one could could have and we cannot get it in a so-called democracy because of corruption around trump was got thirty million dollars from the n._r._a. And he serves the n._r._a. Ranks discovered enough to serve came out and said very strong backers of my right. They were very strong backers here. He gave me money and i did what i wanted. Let's what they wanted. That's it's called the swamp. Let's erupt leslie here. All these mass shootings to happen certainly over again so okay. We'll we'll get to the substance in a second but you did the trump impression which i don't think i've ever seen on cable news i mean i don't watch it twenty four seven. I'm sure it's happened at some point but we were all kind of gathered around around t._v. In the studio watching you yeah not all like a few of us. Okay <hes> so anyway when you started doing the impression we all erupted like it was. It was funny funny. It's really funny because i got a bunch comments obviously on twitter which always have <hes> but in some people like oh. That's cool that you did in other people were like hey you know that's unbecoming on cable. Okay okay hold on hold on the funny thing is i didn't even notice i was doing like people think like oh. I planned it out and some of them. I just do it naturally. I'd do it at home when every every now whenever anybody says anything stupid i do it in the trump boy do a very strong dinner well. That would be me saying something stupid about my wife uh-huh okay so i'll even do to myself so i didn't it wasn't planned or anything. I just naturally did it because that's trump and he's an idiot. It was funny. It's friday one one who says it's unbecoming. I mean we're talking about trump. Trump is unbecoming everything about him. Top like head to toe is becoming <hes> but let's talk a little bit about the point she brought up and i think you made a great point but at the same time i wish every single time a right winger brings up mental illness immediately met with all right. We'll mash have been happening for years now. So where's the funding for mental illness. Guys only care about mental illness after a mass shooting happen so you guys can deflect and use use mental illness as the scapegoat but but the point that you did make was good so i thought it was strong and i love that you had an opportunity to talk about corruption. Yeah you know so that apparently was somewhat controversial because that also play afterwards. I love what you're saying. You know i wish i had said that too. <hes> it because they've never introduced a bill to increase pencil <hes> illness funding so <hes> they're totally full of it on that but you know again i said corruption as a matter of course because obviously the the reality of why he does what he does and why a lot of the politicians dude but afterwards really whoa calling trump corrupt like really like what wo- and i guess it's not super obvious to a lot of people because people don't often say yeah if you take thirty million dollars from somebody and then they tell you what to do. Do you do it and you admit publicly. He came out of the meeting with wayne. Lapierre's and trump said well they were very strong backers of mine right and so i i changed my position and now i'm against background checks. It doesn't get any more clear than that. <hes> that is a stunning admission of corruption. They gave me money. I changed my position. That's called bribery. It's legalized in this country but it's still bribery. I mean all you really did was articulate. What's evident. If you connect the dots not only did trump say the quiet part out loud you know in saying that their backers of his but wayne lapierre's tweet about his meeting with trump was pinned on the n._r._a. n._r._a. Twitter account because it's a sign of or its messaging indicating neuro we own him. He's going to say that he wants gun control. After these mass shootings shootings happen and then we're gonna have a meeting with him and remind him no no you are our puppet because we're funding you and then he's going to go ahead and change course and that's exactly what what happened all right well speaking of gun control. Let's switch gears a little bit and talk about what else is going on. In the news suspect montoya had clear plans ends intent and the means to carry out an act of violence that may have resulted in a mass casualty incident as many as twenty nine people have been arrested in eighteen states for threatening to commit mass shootings or carry out mass shootings and this is just since the two mass shootings things that took place in el paso texas dayton ohio now one of the mass shooting plots that have been foiled by authorities was in long beach california just recently in fact c._b._s. Morning news has more details on that. Let's take a look long beach. Police arrested disgruntled hotel cook rodolfo montoya at his home in huntington huntington beach they seized multiple high powered firearms hundreds of rounds of ammunition and tactical gear including an assault rifle and high capacity magazines aziz which are legal in california. Erm escobedo worked with montag at the marriott hotel. She says he sometimes made her uncomfortable but she never reported him. He looked for me and kicked tash meal kiss on the n._s._a. Don't touch me. Please thank you so the cameras out of there and i don't like that one of the suspects neighbors who did not want to be shown shown says another neighbor warned him to stay away from on toyah. One next door told me that he had guns in that r._v. And stay there that he's got all kinds of guns now. Oh at least twenty nine people have been arrested in eighteen states for threatening mass violence since mass shootings this month in texas and ohio yeah so look i this is a case of law enforcement doing a great job and so this happened. Apparently he was disgruntled employees that there's different causes. It's really and i don't mean to be code with using this word but there's different triggers for what sets people off <hes> and sometimes it's race. Sometimes it's religion. Sometimes it's employee issues sometimes the girlfriend boyfriend etc <hes> and <hes> but whatever it is the fact that law enforcement is heading off all across the country. You have to give them tremendous credit. So we stick with the facts. Thanks here so when when law enforcement does not wrong we pointed out when they do something great we pointed out and <hes> and but the most important thing is if you have someone that you know in your personal life we've been talking about how they have a lot of guns or they're gonna shoot people and and they're angry integrated outbound people report them. It's not a joke and this is not the old days. It's not mccarthyism. It's not any of that assumed that they have even if they didn't say anything about guns assumed they have weapons because this america. It's very likely that they do and if it turns out. It's a false alarm okay. It's a little inconvenience. Don't if whatever you do not do it out of maliciousness right right because if you cry wolf that you know is terribly counterproductive but if so what is actually talking about that at work where at school wherever it might be given what has happened in this country. It's super important that you tell the authorities because unfortunately in this country. It's a high percent chance that they are not kidding kidding. They're not bluffing and and if they hadn't turned that guy in when does he use all those weapons. It looks like it would have been imminent right. I mean the cops are saying that there was a game plan set in place that he was actually planning on carrying out this act of violence and i just want to make a few comments about this particular foiled foiled plot he had all of those assault weapons and very briefly they mentioned in that report that well these assault weapons are legal in california and and inevitably you're going to get a wave of conservatives and gun rights activist saying well you see these laws don't work. It's banned in california and so you got his hands on those assault weapons but we're not an island right surrounded by water big water. We're a country right of states and and all you need to do is drive to a state that has lax gun laws and just by any gun you want willy nilly. If people don't know all the ridiculous trump quotes sometimes they probably views like why does anna wanna make a point about how america's not an island surrounded by big water wet from the standpoint of water trump is <hes> so guys everybody's armed and look one more thing about that when i was told a story <hes> many stories stories about this usually in the last half hour of the young turks which is just remembers the u. I t. dot com slash join to hear some of these thursdays told the story about how i fought with this guy named buford brenton nyc cracked up over it and but it was the old days it was the eighties jersey and people faud and it was a little bit more of an innocent time now. Don't let anybody man you have to assume at all times that everyone has a gun because in america and if you're a tourist and you don't know that be careful in america. It's a dangerous country. I'm not kidding. <hes> not only are there mass shootings. Whenever there's any kind of conflict. You have to assume that the person is armed. There's over two hundred and fifty million guns in america so it is a very dangerous wild wild west was nothing compared to today the shootout of the o._k. Corral legendary so i mean in in las vegas as we had a mass group <hes> fifty two people and you know huge massacre in orlando etc. I mean you've seen it all over florida. You see it in the news all the time right so the o._k. Corral i mean must have been over fifty right. Seventy people killed ninety. People kill no two people. That's it and back then. There was like two people died in a shootout the o._k. Corral the like twelve people in america at that time yeah but but like that's seen as like the bad old days. No the battle days are right now. Everybody's everybody's weaponized and some certain percentage are mentally ill with a violent streak. Not all the mentally ill in fact. It's a tiny tiny minority of the mentally ill that have violent streak but unfortunately a country of three hundred million people and about three hundred million guns that tiny percentage there's a lot of damage no matter what political or religious or personal personal beef that they think they have right and you also have politically field violence you know for i i'm not gonna say for the first time but it's definitely exacerbated <hes> due to the type of rhetoric that we're hearing <hes> in right wing media outlets <hes> from donald trump himself you know fear mongering about migrants and and people of color and you know there's again twenty nine separate people who have been arrested in eighteen states because they were <hes> threatening to carry <music> out <hes> mass shootings and i just want to read you a few examples on august eighth. A man is accused of walking into a walmart in missouri equipped with body armor a handgun and a rifle less than a week week after a gunman killed twenty two people in texas walmart and says it's a social experiment and not intended to cause panic. The twenty year old was charged with making a terrorist threat. So why why are you walking into any place with that type of weaponry and a lot of people would go with my right. It's my rights. We might like like yes but then there are cops who might be concerned that they're going to get shot then. You're in a world of trouble right. Let alone anybody else getting shot and why are you going around on terrorism people with weapons. <hes> we be any and you don't even know exactly what your rights are in that particular state etcetera and obviously you violated the law but it goes is on and on i mean the the guys to worry about the most are the ones that are unhinged and ready to act and one more time whether it's the f._b._i. Or or local law enforcement when they catch them before they do the shootings oftentimes. You don't see that's part of why we're doing this story. You have to give them credit for the things that they stopped that you it didn't see that's what law enforcement is at its best. Absolutely we gotta take a quick break but when we come back we are going to discuss some activists who are holding holding nancy pelosi accountable for her unwillingness to impeach donald trump. The monsanto corporation continues to sell it. Herbicides called roundup but you should know that that herbicides as a potential killer recent studies have linked roundup to significant increases in non hodgkin's lymphoma. That's a cancer that can be devastating to you and the people you love while roundup roundup continues to cause cancer. Monsanto continues to make huge profits from the sale of roundup. They will not take it off the market. If you or a loved one are exposed to round up at work or home and then developed non-hodgkin's lymphoma you may be entitled to financial compensation and it's important for you to take action now and hold monsanto accountable aw come right back in a young turks leroy berrisford rice in in the members section is clearly key. Mcenaney isn't taking advantage of t._y. T. membership privileges she would have definitely seen the jank is no fan of a recession or a bill maher. Hey kelly t._y._p. Dot com trial. You'll learn a lot for free. That's true us dot com slash. Try and get the first week free. <hes> <hes> nicholas ward says jet crashed every bullet point. Her only comeback was ad hominem stone cold. What thank you nicholas appreciate that <hes> try dora. Laura says antica sparing is on point concerns go to that snowflake defense because they can't really defend their true points slash intentions <hes> speaking of anna <hes> hammered dances dances. Does anna's top look like it's halfway to a superhero. Oh i don't know but it's not a top. It's address. I bought this for political on last year because i feel like it's fierce and i wanted to be fierce. Apparently it was fierce enough. The bureau superior and last one pork chop express says they want to keep weapons weapons away from the mentally ill but they'd let someone mentally ill become president which is more dangerous leather. Just so you guys there's no. We is watching very like real leather. Whatever okay let's move on. Oh actually i have some announcements really quick. <hes> first off happy half hour is going to be taped today which means you can look forward to watching it. It's the show hosted by our very own brett erlich. It is the in my opinion best shona watch because it's a nice break from what you'll get on this show which is the vegetables but sometimes you want some desert okay and that shows desserts. It's a lot of fun. Steve is gonna be on today so please check it out <hes> seven p._m. Pacific for two i._t. Members and on it's on youtube <hes> roku zumo komo pluto all of those different outlets at least check it out. All of our shows are pluto. Assume oh and roku definitely check it out. If you have any of those devices we have a twenty four hour channel on them including youtube t._v. As well and it's good to see the funnel funds so on cheap all right then we also <hes> have <hes> something happening for power panel on august thirtieth okay so august thirtieth <hes> we're gonna have our usual power panel but we will only air for this <hes> for our members also on pluto tv zumo the roku channel and youtube t._v. So it is not going to be on youtube and facebook as usual on august thirtieth. It's only on roku. Sumo pluto youtube t._v. and for members on t._y._p. Dot com so <hes> check it out on those channels is if you're watching our twenty four hour channel on that fantastic put it on and local bars pizza shops. Media organizations spread the word <hes> i just like c._n._n. M._s._n._b._c. fox twenty four hour channel on on all those platforms so with that said. Let's move on to the rest of the news occur. Pelosi does not lead on impeachment. She won't leave the legacy of resistance like many other san francisco democrats. She will weep legacy of failure. I love it. These are activists who attended one of the events in honor of nancy pelosi to call her out and demand and that she opened an impeachment inquiry into donald trump. This took place during the san francisco democratic parties event to give pelosi a lifetime achievement achievement award and so the <hes> activists that you're about to see didn't just stick around outside. They went to the event. They were quiet. They were doing their thing and then as soon as nancy. Pelosi went up and started speaking <hes>. This is what happened so they were escorted out by police <hes> from what i've read in various reports no one was arrested did luckily but i love the fact that they're they're showing up there active and they're demanding change and the young woman that you saw in the first video actually had had such compelling statements that we're going to go to in just a second but i love this because it shows nancy pelosi. Hey the second you walk out of your washington bubble and you talk talk to real voters. This is what they want. They want action. They want change. They want you to hold donald trump accountable so i love to and i want to explain why i i thought this protest was among the best that we're executed because <hes> number one <hes> <hes> we don't voters don't have a choice anymore because <hes> both republican and democratic leadership don't listen to voters at all. They don't wanna meet with voters. They have enormous disdain for voters so if you've got a check for nancy pelosi she'll meet with you right away. Sandwich super schumer of course mcconnell kinda wouldn't know an average american of his life depended on it and so they are then inviting protests. We have no choice because is they've shut out our voice completely now. When you go to do the protests obviously we always practice nonviolence impact. When we do rallies alleys we'd teach <hes> de escalation and nonviolence so obviously nothing physical were the left wing. Check and be loud. There's nothing another wrong with being loud but then when the security comes walk out. It's okay you've made your point. We're not trying to shut out their voice. We're we're trying to give us a voice for the first time because we're so underrepresented in washington and in their bubble you have no idea it's actually worse than you think inside of washington. The pelosi has everyone and in a failing of sycophants going around going. Oh you're so great. You're so great speaker. You're the best speaker pelosi everything you've ever done. So jesus speaker blows my god. Everybody loves you speaker pelosi so it's like the first time she ever hears from any real americans when you do this of course you let her speak but there's another wrong being allowed in the beginning but when like i said it under any serbs has whether it's a democrat or republican again security comes. It's okay you made your point now. Take it outside and then go in and give speeches outside wonderful perfect yeah and you're right. Look we live in completely a different worlds because while we're on the left right i mean we're definitely further on the left but there are members of the democratic party members of the establishment met who look at pelosi and they think yeah lifetime achievement award so i was curious like what is it that the san francisco democratic party is citing in giving her this award especially at a time when trump is allowed to run roughshod and do whatever he wants without any real ramifications well the san francisco democratic traffic parties said pelosi's contributions to repealing don't ask don't tell and urging for net neutrality protections in california. I know demonstrates straights commitment to fighting for the people look. That's that's weak sauce in my opinion. It's not even close to what we need. In terms of leadership leadership we need someone who's willing to fight back against donald trump and you know there were a pelosi supporters in the crowd as well and so they they started chanting to kind of drown out the sound kind of the protesters but i don't want to drown out the sound of the protesters on this show their their their words are so important. Their stories are important so i want to go back to the young woman that we feature at the very top of this story and i want you to hear what her arguments are for impeachment. Take a look i can. I'm here by immigrant experience as a u._s. Citizen with the late to vote a big mouth and a big get megaphone amitav administrations worst nightmare speaker pelosi is right inside about to receive a lifetime achievement award but her legacy is at the crossroads while donald trump and powers white supremacists who are gunning down our communities locks up migrant children and families in concentration camps straps away health care protections for transgender people and cut millions of women off from accessing healthcare from planned parenthood speaker. Pelosi keeps telling us to wait on impeachment. She tells us to wait for the miller report. Wait for the unredacted mullah report. Wait until impeachment polls better way for twenty twenty. I'm here to say that my family my community our families our communities cannot afford to wait any longer wonderful <hes> i. They're actually <hes>. I'm more critical pelosi than even those protesters are because at one point she gave her credit for passing the affordable care act some good things and i think that's the most over hype thing that pelosi's ever done. She kept her caucus together. They had a massive majority and they pass the you know very weak version much better than plan. <hes> you know the the the current system they have been. I'm not against that that they pass did but it's like wow you got a plan that was originally a heritage foundation plan pastor a massive democratic majority with the senate and the president on your anyway i can go on and on look. I get why they give her lifetime. She awards she's historic in at least the fact that she was the first female speaker of the house ever and now she's a two time speaker of the house a so i i'm mixed on that but at the end of the day she's wrong on impeachment and her career in my opinion has been defined by a lack lacquer willingness to fight against republicans so i want to just quickly give you a statement from pelosi in response to the protests diversity is the party strength but unity is its power which pelosi talking about unity after the way she went after freshman congresswomen the the squad. She has no like stand on. I mean she has effectively exacerbated. Divide that exists between establishment democrats and progressives assets. It's actually worse than that because <hes> she got so frustrated that of the what she would consider the insolence silence of these young freshman congressman who would not behave as they were told to do this she blurted out about how dare in favor of green dream or whatever is just only four people and you know of course she spent on medicare for all the cetera but what happens behind the scenes is way worse. She puts inch <hes> <hes> richard neal in charge of the most powerful committee in the house they control the budget and richard neal says i don't want trump's tax returns from new york doesn't fight trump it all on purpose because pelosi told them under no circumstances are you to fight against trump and then she turns around and inputs share a boost does as the head of the d triple c whose job is more democrats in the house but that is not pelosi tells also don't do that. Make sure you like more corporate democrats. There's several progressives that were within inches beating republicans last time around boosted so some pelosi are now actively working against them and trying to find new people to run against him in primaries even though all do support them a little bit and right now yeah they'd be in congress but pelosi doesn't want those democrats in congress because she hates progresses and and she accidentally let us know because she got frustrated and said therefore therefore people or whatever these progressives they don't really count and that's who pelosi is. She's a corporate democrat the ruin through so there was a monmouth university. I pol <hes> just today. It was released today. The topic was impeachment. Do the majority of americans support impeachment now. Keep in mind the numbers i'm about to give you include both democrats and and republicans and independents to be fair and <hes> according to this poll released thursday thirty-five percent of americans support impeaching trump and removing him from office this while fifty nine percent of americans oppose that course of action only forty one percent of americans want the house judiciary committee to open impeachment inquiry against the president now house go graphic eight. If you pull democrats remember pelosi is the leader of the democratic party of the house <hes> but she's a leader the democratic leader although seventy percent of democrats believe trump should be impeached seventy two percent only thirty nine percent of independence and eight percent of republicans support support impeachment so i wanted to give you those numbers so you know where the democratic party stands when it comes to this question of impeachment so to buy that one. She's let's be clear. It's a fact fact she's opposed to seventy two percent of democrats in the country and he's supposed to be our leader second of all. If you don't fight you never win right right now thirty five percent of americans who say well that's less than a majority well. You don't start impeachment. Proceedings were at more than a majority if you did that'd be super easy and and that's not how it works historically. How does it work you know when they send impeachment proceedings e._s. Richard nixon <hes> would that was calling at nineteen percent. Only ninety eighteen percent of americans wanted to start impeachment proceedings against nixon a half a year later after they actually heard the case it was in the high fifties when nixon resigned because if you want to convince americans of your case you actually have to make that is the number one problem with speaker pelosi throughout her entire career she he told the democratic party lie down surrender never make your case and it the culmination of her career when she's supposed to be resisting this thing trump. She's doing the same exact thing doing the exact opposite not resisting trump at all and saying do not make your case. Let's just this preemptively surrender at the end of the day she might be historic but if you're being honest about her track record she'll be defined by surrender. When we come back back from the break <hes> we will do a deep dive into birdies green new deal proposal remember the deal was an ambitious plan and <hes> but it wasn't an actual piece of legislation will bernie sanders has the proposal for the legislation and it is the most progressive it is awesome. You don't wanna miss it. We hope you're enjoying this free clip from the young turks. If you wanna get the whole show and more exclusive content while supporting independent media become a member of dot com slash us join today in the meantime enjoy this free second church so we've got a series of interesting. I guess for you guys in the conversation as we call <hes> the third hour of the young turks or at least the beginning of it <hes> when we do our interview so tomorrow wpro normally. We don't do any of the after the friday show but we're going to this time around because j._d. Shelter is gonna join us. He's running in iowa's fourth district. The current document of that <hes> seat is the king hopefully future occupant will be j._d. Scholten you've got to hear about j._d. Scholten wonderful <hes> populist populous progressive running against steve king. I think it's fair to say see kings the worst <hes> congressperson in the country so <hes> make sure you watch j._d. On tomorrow's morals conversation today i'm gonna talk this on piker. He made some <hes> offensive comments <hes> yesterday and is twitch channel and we're gonna talk through that eight o'clock eastern and then i'm gonna turn to matthew sheffield who was one of the top <hes> conservatives founder of newsbusters and is now a progress. Oh really fascinating. <hes> conversations conversations coming up over the next two days. Don't miss right here on t._y. T. dot com and <hes> then i wanted to read some of your comments from our members <hes> and you could become a member not dot com slash join rhonda's happy half hours the best but i wanna know is brett lit when he starts recording or is that just him 'cause seriously if that's just him. Can you imagine adjutant drunk okay rhonda. I will because you're a member. I'll tell you the behind the scenes truth. That's just him. Yes <hes> anyway a now under nancy pelosi. Oh ac- drift says basically she should be getting a lifetime to cement award sicker. Jordan rug says the only check they won't take as a reality check kazuko. This says pelosi equals reason for term limits. <hes> melissa trees on twitter says my daughter wanted me to tell anna that addresses beautiful ooh. She's super jealous. Make you jealous by the way just a quick tip for <hes> clothing. I know i talked about a super briefly on a post game but if you wanna wanna shop sustainably check out <hes> and they're not sponsors or anything but a posh mart <hes> mark posh mark is like this app where you can buy clothing for people who are sick of their wardrobe. They want to sell their stuff. I really like it because become sponsors. They shouldn't become sponsors. I think it's a great way of of buying new closed in a sustainable way so you're not constantly giving it to fast fashion anyway a._o. Friedland last one. This is kelly mcenaney. Please enjoy ninety day. Membership of the young turks on me. Well thank you a. l. If you wanna give the give the gift of membership to someone else. That's an excellent idea t._r._t. Dot com slash gift. That's how you can do or anna all right. Well just want to remind you all that <hes> you should be protecting your online activity with a v._p._n. And luckily we've partnered up with nord nord nord v._p._n. Protects your online behavior and activity so hackers will not be able to hack into your computer and take a look at what you're doing if you're are interested go to nor v._p._n. Dot com slash t._y. T. and you'll get a discount seventy five percent off for three years and you get your first month free with that said <hes>. Let's talk about one of my favorite favorite stories of the day bernie sanders and the green new deal bernie sanders has rolled out his version of the green new deal and of course he has has been very supportive of the ambitious plan <hes> that came out earlier with <hes> a._n._c. Now that wasn't binding legislation the what sanders is doing is proposing what would be his binding legislation and it's incredibly comprehensive. <hes> sanders was an early supporter of the green new deal and ambitious but non-binding congressional plan for tackling global warming warming an economic inequality. He's bestowing that same name upon his is new plan which calls for the united states to eliminate fossil fuel use by twenty-fifty so the fossil few the fossil fuel use news was the centerpiece of the green new deal so of course he's going to mention that as as the centerpiece of his <hes> but once you get into the details it it shows a time line that isn't really that hasn't been used in other proposals so let me tell you what that is. Sanders plan calls for an intermediate goal all of decarbonising transportation and power generation the two largest sources of emissions in the united states by twenty thirty which would lower u._s. Emissions by seventy one percent the plan also calls for the united states to help developing countries curb emissions by thirty six percent during that period of time by twenty thirty. I want to say two things about that. I <hes> most plans say that we need to have <hes> our refueling missions by <hes> twenty thirty sanders goes further and says no. Let's go past fifty percent. Go all the way to seventy one percent. <hes> we believe that it's doable and then he says aside <hes> over a billion alien dollars to help other countries cut their emissions as well so this is <hes> the exact opposite of right wing ideology. They say oh. Well screw everybody else who cares about them but but i don't know if you guys know this we all live on the planet and so he's saying if you're really going to tackle climate change we need to incentivize other countries that are developing countries that they're not as economically <hes> you know well off as we are to go in the right direction as well and we lead by example and by the way it just it makes sense sense so look some people might be thinking i mean of course the right wing thinks that this is just a giant hoax and there's no need for it but some people might be thinking well. This sounds expensive. There's there's a giant jobs component to it which we'll get to in just a second and one one other thing i wanted to note is that study after study shows that if we want to oh save our existence on this planet we have no choice but to eliminate carbon emissions the intergovernmental panel on climate change last steer reported that if countries want to limit global warming to one point five degrees celsius century they need to have global emissions by twenty thirty become carbon-neutral carbon-neutral <hes> i'm sorry they need to cut by half carbon emissions by twenty thirty and become carbon neutral by two thousand fifty and then go carbon negative thereafter her. That's an that's a super lofty goal <hes> but it's important to accomplish that also the new deal provided inexpensive electricity to america <hes> through efforts like the rural electrification administration and the federal power marketing administrations if the federal government was able to electrify electrify america under f._d._r. Without computers or any of the modern technologies we have available to us today think of what we can do today and that's a a statement from bernie sanders sanders on his green new deal proposal and by the way we are the top country when it comes to carbon emission so when it comes to foreign aid to countries <hes> in assisting to cut their carbon emissions. I think it only makes sense yeah so this would add twenty million jobs down and we don't even have twenty million jobs available at this point so basically you're saying it would create no unemployment and that's a fascinating concept. I'm <music>. I'm worried that that probably is not going to be the case. I'm worried that there's gonna be a crash a recession even before the next president <hes> and then when all those people lose their jobs abso- this would be a good way to revitalize economy and and then that's when the right wing will say no no we're out of money in crashed and they'll forget that they already gave all the money to the rich and to the corporations will conveniently forget and so the reality is a program like this put the money in the jobs in the hands of average american workers and it rebuilds our infrastructure like we did under roosevelt truman and eisenhower and i mean to rebuild our entire energy infrastructure structure is exciting and in terms of what the scientists think we should do what you just said is ambitious and lofty true it is on the other hand dave been proven right over and over and over again so it's not optional you know they said that we would break records on on temperature and we did sixteen seventeen years or the hottest record. They were absolutely right. It's almost as if they're scientists and ninety nine percent of the climate scientists in the world agree a- and so when they say we have to do these things <hes> they're not just guessing and it's not optional we gotta do it. It is an actual planetary emergency emergency and if they hadn't been proven right already and it was just a theory that would be one thing but they've been proven right in every instance so far so i just want to get to the final part of this again. His plan is so comprehensive and i encourage you to read all the details <hes> but i also want to talk about the cost because as always if you read the new york times coverage of this story they just talk about the cost. It's so expensive. It's so expensive. How you're gonna pay for it well. Let's let's get to that right now. So several twenty twenty democrats have called for investment in the trillions of dollars <hes> but in the fine print these plans include public and private funding and this is graphic like eight sanders is plan is notably different because it calls for more money than any of the other candidates sixteen point three trillion dollars in total and the entire investment budget would would come from federal dollars so he doesn't want any private companies playing a role and i think that it makes sense in this case it makes sense and it goes. I want you to understand what that means. It doesn't mean saying that we can ever use private companies to to build anything what it means is trump right now says when he says infrastructure he says well. I don't want the government to build the roads bridges. I want private companies do it and then put a toll on it so they can make a profit off of it. So that means you pay for the rest of your life on those bridges and tolls instead of having the government collectively build those that infrastructure which is a core part of the government's job now. Let's talk about how this plan would actually generate money and then help to pay before the plan generates money from various sources including six point four trillion dollars in revenue from selling energy via power marketing authorities <hes> two point three trillion trillion dollars from income taxes from the new jobs created under the plan and as jank had alluded to earlier there will be twenty million jobs created by this plan and one point two trillion dollars from reducing military expenses related to protecting oil shipping routes a lot of that is happening right now in the strait of hormuz because of our conflict conflict with iran so i love that when i confess i hadn't even thought of that. That's true like we spent so much time. Resources and military equipment etc protecting important oil shipping routes will we're not using oil anymore great and by the way that also creates less conflict less potential for a year which is another great side benefit of this yeah and so <hes> bernie sanders keeps making the point that look we're going to have this paid for within fifteen in years and according to sanders the price tag i totally agree with this is a bargain compared to the business. As usual climate trajectory economists estimate made that if we do not take action we will lose thirty four point five trillion dollars economic activity by the end of the century and that's according to the plan and that's according to <hes> <hes> various estimates that i've read <hes> completely aside separate from this plan and that's the number one problem with the mainstream media coverage of this box to the great job and that's why were quoting them because they actually had <hes> facts and figures <hes> as opposed to the new york times going to we don't like it. It's expensive <hes> the status quo it is more expensive same exact situation and healthcare but a lot of the mainstream media view their job as status quo protection so they never mentioned the existing 'cause they talk about oh new 'cause well. I can't have new costs but remember it would save money in the long run. I mean look at the fires in california and he's going to introducing paradise california which had the largest fire in state history and the reason he's doing that is because to point out this cost the taxpayers a tremendous amount of money a little on the damage that it did to the environment into the humans in california the citizens the voters of california but unfortunately a lot of the media ignore that completely. I want to get a to an international story before we go to our breaks. Let's get right to it. The india's india's hindu nationalist <hes> leader prime minister narendra modi unilaterally stripped kashmir of its semi-autonomous status earlier this month on august fifth he he did this and he also placed <hes> it's part of the region on a two-week lockdown now <hes> he has decided to ease about lockdown but he is arguing that this territory <hes> should be part of india and that it should not be semi-autonomous. Kashmir is a mountainous valley that borders pakistan and india has been a centre of conflict between the two nuclear armed countries since the nineteen forty seven partition of british india <hes> <hes> now the new york times did a pretty good report on this and it kind of shows you how much it's affected the people of kashmir. Let's take a look india sent in thousands of security forces to confine and silence although position in sorrento gar kashmir's largest city they have is on each blow checkpoints everywhere have betrayed us. It was a backstabbing a- as kashmiri's there they have their makeup prison this kashmiris whole kashmir with prison and people have almost no way of communicating with the outside world off the internet cell phones and even landlines so to place a call some try to come here. It's a government building with few phones that may or may not work it sure does uh-huh so devastating story and if the conflict continues to increase because remember <hes> india and pakistan are constantly in conflict and especially in conflict when it comes to this territory and so you have two nuclear powers ores who are constantly feuding and now the tensions are rising over this territory. I have more details. I want you to jump in yeah so there's a little bit of a role reversal here in india used to be the moderate country <hes> until modi took over and he's a nationalist <hes> when he was a regional leader <hes> he looked other way as <hes> there was vigilante violence against <hes> minority muslims in his region of india and he didn't go to prosecute and so <hes> he's a a hindu extremists and and so <hes> whereas pakistan you're saying used to be muslim fundamentalists and <hes> and i thought it was one of the biggest problem spot in the world. I often say on the show. The two biggest problem countries unfortunately are saudi arabia and pakistan <hes> but now they are prime minister imran khan although his populist <hes> is our he's far more more moderate and has tried to seek out piece before he was prime minister and he was elected because of his stance on peace and now he's saying perhaps i was too naive and and they mistook my attempts entreaties to for peace as weakness and so he's saying i'm going to go in the opposite direction. These are two nuclear armed countries. <hes> this is a potential disaster worldwide disaster in the making. I hope that attention school now some <hes>. <hes> people in india's government are saying well. We had a no <hes>. I use policy that we would never use nuclear weapons first which is a great policy. All countries should have that and that's because india was a moderate country led by moderates now they're saying we might withdraw that and it depends on the circumstances and so that's disastrous and i wouldn't it be amazing if there were moderates on both sides but unfortunately now we got a flip flop and there's fundamentalists melissa george in india so i wanna talk a little bit more about that role reversal that you mentioned <hes> with pakistan and india because look it's never just one country against the there are other countries who get involved and one of the reasons why pakistan has been <hes> one of the more questionable countries when it came to maintaining world peace is because says it's funded by bad actors like saudi arabia and so it's just fascinating to see how trump is handling all of this because trump is very friendly with mody <hes> but at the same time saudi arabia which trump is incredibly friendly with <hes> is funding pakistan and so the kashmir as <hes> have been waiting to see how america would react to this and so trump has been called on to mitigate the situation nations. Which is i mean. I don't know what he's actually done but again. He's very friendly with modi's so if anyone in kashmir is thinking that trump is going to alleviate the the pain that they're feeling that's not going to happen and even though modi has eased some of the restrictions under this lockdown <hes> he's still doing away with what's referred to as article three seventy which <hes> provided this part of kashmir <hes> they're semiautonomous status look these issues are never black and white and i understand indian perspective pakistan. <hes> especially in the past is <hes> funded so much terrorism <hes> including horrible strikes inside of india and recently suddenly there was a strike that killed dozens of indians and so there's great frustration and anger on the indian side <hes> but <hes> when you have a more moderate leader who's willing to work with you. That is your time to reach an agreement where you can actually strike at the terrorist together instead of making the situation worse. So how do i know who's right ryan wrong here. I think these situations are very difficult. I i'm always puzzled at anyone claims they know exactly what's happening in syria on any of those sides in this case united nations and human rights groups who aren't on either side say no-one india's doing kashmir's clearly wrong. There's human rights abuses uses arresting the political leaders detaining them as outrageous all the things you saw in that video or outrageous and basically turned into an open air prison so it looks like a i would love for india to be right <hes> but but in this case it looks like they're heading a very wrong and dangerous direction and one final thing that's important to know <hes> <hes> kashmir is majority muslim. India is majority hindu and narendra. Modi is a hindu nationalist right and he has a history of being particularly the vicious to muslims which is one of the reasons why the kashmiri are concerned about not only losing their semi autonomous status but the way that they're going to be treated under mody yeah and and look you can tell also in the verbiage that they use who are the good guys bad guys in this particular circumstance so the government miss says we had to take preemptive action in kashmir to protect our interests so we had to circle the largely muslim population and basically put him in an open air prison because live anytime anybody's telling you about preemptive action whether it was the germans in the thirties we have to protect the homeland by going into check check territory and austria etcetera or when our government george w bush said to take preemptive action and fight them over there before they come over here. Watch out that means they're we're about to start a disastrous war and so <hes> unfortunately most of the evidence here points to india being their aggressors and and look last thing imran khan the prime minister of pakistan says now they put all the soldiers. They're telling us that they had to preemptively to protect their interests now. If they start you're killing the muslim population in kashmir. It's going to force my hand and then we both got troops. There and those are the to india and pakistan again two countries and weaponized to the hilt the mac maximum degree including being nukes. I don't think we're getting how dangerous the situation is and how the whole world needs to put pressure on both sides but in unfortunately particularly on india not at this point <hes> including economic pressure to do the right thing we cannot look the other way if they start to provoke a war with the other side because that war will ended in disaster not just for them but for all of us we gotta take a break when we come back richard s cow will join us for our two and we're going to continue on with some more international news.

donald trump nancy pelosi president america twitter bernie sanders sanders california Dot anna wan Jank united states kaley mcenaney chris cuomo sheffield san francisco steve king texas congress
Episode 24

Lovush

23:55 min | 1 year ago

Episode 24

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Weekly Chat With Ross Tucker

The Business of Sports With Andrew Brandt

23:20 min | 3 months ago

Weekly Chat With Ross Tucker

"All right so today is a little bit different. It's not just big showtime it's our first and maybe our last i don't know but it's a combo. Andrew brandt big joe ross tucker football podcasts and the business of sports featuring your brand and simulcast basically because and we're gonna do ranch this week and we both have crazy schedules. He's in miami teaching a class. I've got a bunch of games and stuff so we're gonna go a little bit longer than we normally go with andrew and it's going to be the same audio here on the raw soccer football podcast and the businesses sports so this is one of my appearances ever on the businesses sports. And you're pretty pretty cool. I always have at least once a year going to do more than that. Hopefully coming up and i. I know our listeners like that. Greetings ross. From south florida i non angering allowed people listening right now. You've been saying that but if people have listened last three years they know that every second week of january i have been asked to do a class at university of miami law school on sports law kind of a quick immersion class for hours a day. So don't feel too sorry for me. I got four hours a day inside teaching. And i got about three law students business students. I got fifty five year old investment banker in there that just follows me wanted to come to class. So i'm in south florida this week escaping the cold But back when villanova's starts next week to the northeast and facing whatever's up there weatherwise. andrew. I gotta tell you man you look awesome. You look like you've already gotten some sun. You like glowing with the sunlight coming in from your window. You look like you've already worked out. You're gonna go work glorious dude. I'm very jealous. Kinda do you know i love. I love giving back again. Not to get too sappy but everything i do now is trying to give back as i said ross. I'm not going to cure cancer. I'm not going to create a new Irish vaccine. But i can get back away. I know how knowledge experience insights perspective through teaching through talking through podcasting Through tv radio And my writings awesome. Absolutely love it and as usual as you might expect the second week of the off season. There's a lot to get into. And i think we have to start with what happened in philadelphia. Yeah primarily because it seems like you know pretty much everybody involved. You know on sunday andrew. The news came out that doug peterson might not be safe and he was going to have a second meeting with jeffrey. Loria florida. Next thing on monday. Doug peterson out as head. Coach of the philadelphia eagles. Your reaction had a big reaction raw losses. I have some personal interest here knowing all the parties. In bob jeff. Lurie howie roseman. Doug peterson and other people new organization having consulted there many years ago with joe banner. Who's no longer there And then having a personal interest in doug which explain a couple minutes. I have to say even though. I'm a huge fan of doug peterson. I'm not surprised. And this goes back to everything talked to you and everyone else in the world about the last month which is carson wentz is not going anywhere so with carson wentz not going anywhere. The ownership looks at okay. I've got that Which dwarfs i repeat dwarfs the investment in coaching. Not only doug peterson the whole staff is. What twenty million dollars compared to hundreds of millions of dollars into into carson wentz and draft picks leading. Nick foles go and trading. Sam bradford so listen. This is the decision. The business of sports they're not gonna trade carson wentz. So what's the option fix it whether starter backup. They gotta fix them. And i think that ownership determined because of whatever has happened personally emotionally in on the field between coach peterson and carson that. He's not the right guy to fix him. So i think this move is made about fixing carson wentz. I don't even wanna get into whether starts whether backs up. I have said stood on a table. He's not getting traded because of the financial consequences. So they got to fix them and peterson's not gonna. You're right about the rumors. And i think what happened in the meetings was doug was like you know. I'm not a first year head coach. You know trying to get a job. Now i've got gravitas. I've got skins in the game and they're telling me you gotta do this. You got to do that. You gotta fire. You gotta hire not hire this. So i'm thinking doug is like. Yeah i'm out and it wasn't so much i'm it was a firing but we kind of saw it in the weeds Over the last week. I thought it was interesting. Andrew listening to jeffrey loria. The eagles owner talk on monday. He really made it clear that he feels like he has a good understanding of where the franchise is right now and at twenty twenty one he might have used the term transition year and that doug peterson as a coach. That's not your reaction right is to go through a transition year. I don't know if doug peterson would have even survived the transition year. So listen jeffrey. Loria talk and i guess. I would say it made more sense to me that the eagles almost sounds like the eagles philly. They need to go through a little bit of a rebuild and doug peterson either doesn't want to or you know doesn't need to be a part of that. You know the one place you don't wanna be in especially nfl because the cap you don't wanna be bad cap bad team that right. You don't wanna be any of those three things but the combination is bad so you can be bad team young better than bad team old. And they're older teen nc a lotta guys flushed out. Obviously the two receivers. I think everybody thinks they're moving Which whether cut or trade. Which is to sean jackson. Now sean jeffrey and that's a weight of financial weight people get back to this carson wentz and people are like andrew they'll trade winds doesn't matter they'll take the cabinet. Listen they didn't trade alshon jeffery. They didn't cut out jeffrey. Because of exactly the apps it was cheaper to keep him and now they can. So they're going to get rid of some of these older players. And what is it you know. I think it's kind of cliche to say well. That's a transition the probably do better. You're the do better than four wins with a young team. So i think it's all about setting expectations and you're right you know peterson doesn't wanna start over. All coaches like their older players for certain reasons Unlike to bring back security blink. Get lack of a better word towing with andrew. Brandt here on the ross tucker football podcast and business of sports simulcast this week. There's a lot to get into. You know. I never get into politics andrew before the eagles quick story doug peterson i'm a fan. And the reason. I'm a fan and i laughed when people panned the higher couple years ago and thought they should hire ben mcadoo while sudden He's been a great. He was a great teammate. You know the packers just He was the guy. I called every off season after. I struck out signing veteran quarterbacks. Right this is before at drafting aaron rodgers of the l. One two three era. And i would try the usual names. Pick them out. A kerry collins jeff garcia christian and call the agents. And i'd say yeah come on back up breath in they're like we're not backing a bread. You want us to move to green bay wisconsin and one hundred percent certain a certainty. We're not gonna play. We're not gonna play like who wants to go to green bay wisconsin. No they're not gonna play because brett never missed a snap. It was the surest bet in the history of the sport. So i would strike out every year. Ross and then sometime in april. Or may i'd call down to northeast louisiana. I'd say can come back and he'd go. Peterson is now trying to coach. Full-time in shreveport go and andrew. I'm done doug a need you. He said how many guys you call before you called me this year. I'm like i don't know clive. And then he talked his wife kelly and he'd say all right and then literally in three minutes three minutes ross. We negotiated his contract. I give no agent. I'd give him a million dollars million five. I think i in game two million and then a ton of incentives that he and i both knew he never earned right it never. It was the most pleasant simple and easy contract negotiation of my career with the player. Who knew that he was never gonna play but we need him. And the last thing is he was breads. Confidante breads gov partner that both scratch golfers more importantly he was best friend. And i don't wanna drag us out but in that incredible moment. When we're in oakland i get a call from brad's father and his voice is different than i ever heard. He says worst Gotta find him irv died. Earth spreads father. And of course we we can never reach bread. He's i don't think he even had a phone. And what do we do. We call doug we call doug doug's with brett amitav course we now get the. Nfl his wife on the phone. We have a three way through doug to breath to tell him. He lost his dad And then doug came back with. Doug was so key to that day. I get chills thinking about it. So just as doug peterson fired and maybe it'll be hired within the week. Just some thoughts on doug. I'm a big fan. Yeah that's great stuff. Andrew appreciate you. Sharing both of those stories awesome absolutely awesome and i shared. I think on monday show. I guess it was yesterday a story about doug peterson and something. He did for me personally. When i lost my voice or didn't have much of voice for the first preseason game he kind of knew i was struggling so he went along with the with the answer when i was interviewing him before the game and he taken care of he was helped me out so i will always remember that and appreciate it. I want to ask you. I i said this earlier. I never talk politics. I don't care to you. I don't follow it closely enough. Set her up. My question is about the bella check medal of freedom. Thing is that is there. That was a business of sports thing. Andrew in other words like realizing it's not good for the business of bill. Bella jacker the business or the new england patriots if he goes in accepts that award. It's funny say don't talk. I got a tv request yesterday or two days ago. And i don't really turn down tv requests. Because i think it's good for my brand cetera. But i turned it down but here. I am hugging you. Manage my question was. Is there a chance. There's a business with sports element. That's all i'm asking. You know yeah. I think it's good for the brand It's hard because you have to say. Well you know. He is friends and has been a supporter of the president. All these years and is that a hollow move. I don't know But if you're look from the brand right. What's the best decision this week right last week this week. Clearly but if. I'm doing an interrogation into bill belichick. I'm gonna you know not leave it at. Hey hey you turned down that. I'm gonna ask what about your lifelong or just leave it at that. So one of the things. I wanted to get into with you. How about this. Jared year andrew. The guy was on the colts. Practice squad the last two weeks they activate them on game day and he starts ordered saturday's playoff game. I called against the buffalo bills tack indianapolis colts games over now. The packers signed him colts. Practice squad and i think you'll start but maybe he will on saturday against the rams. I mean you wanna talk about a weird loop on. This guy has made a lot of dome been around for a while. It's weird that guys like earlier and devante freeman who the bill signed the practice squad. Yesterday are even practice squad eligible as much as they played as much but for a guy potentially start back to back playoff games for two different teams andrew. Like i don't know if i want to credit his agent. Maybe agent told the coats. Keep him on the practice squad because he wants to keep his options open. Yeah i mean maybe it was part of deal. I think you're right. This is a kogas football and we sort of hatton were now in january so we kinda take these rules for granted now but they're so different. They're so different this up and down on practice squad at the point you made. We have tenure twelve year fifteen year vets on practice what. We've never seen this in the history of sports a history of football but we may see it. you know. i'm already getting questions as i'm sure you are is what would you like to see. Continue from this covid year. That is one the easy transition team practice. Squads and the lack of restrictions on veteran experience in practice squads. That's great and of course i love the i. R. that is short term rather than long term. So anyway these are certain should continue on mazing story and you know ross as well as either you know. He's gonna play the accuracy this week. It's just bound to happen and play a lot probably Yeah and of course you know me and my boys. We have a special interest in that team right now. Speaking of that game in this weekend to celebrate this year's football playoffs andrew draftkings is giving all new players. The chance to bet on any of this weekend professional football games at one hundred to one odds think about that all your that one dollar on any football game this weekend and if your team wins you catch a hundred dollars. The reason why we switched to draftkings is because it's safe it's secure it's reliable it's us-based making it easy for you to deposit withdraw your money at your convenience download the top rated draftking sportsbook at now use promo code. Ross when you sign up to get one hundred to one odds on any football game this weekend. That's code for new players. Get shot at one hundred dollars on any football action this weekend. Limited time only trafficking sportsbook must be twenty one or older to jersey or pa. only restrictions apply see draftkings dot com slash. Sports super detail gambling problem. Call one eight hundred gamble. Speed guys playing andrew. I don't know how much of the national championship game did you watch their. Did you watch any money. I went to the semi final in dallas. But i didn't go. One in miami watched some of it. Yeah i was. I was sat back and forth it action. There was a wide receiver for alabama. Jalen waddell who was playing. He's supposed to be a top ten top twenty. Pick who had like a major major ankle issue. And i saw you tweet. Something about it at anju brand. She's kinda wanted to get your thoughts because you know. He has some idea of who his agent will be. I just found the whole dynamic interested what he was doing out there. The tweet you mentioned. Was i get it your tough and i get it. You're committed to your teammates. But why Specially when the lead blossomed to twenty points. I didn't understand it. But i know you know. We all have different feelings about sports and team and commitment in those kinds of things as everyone knows i slapped on the business side. There was no business reason for him to be out there. There really wasn't Whatever draft position he has he was not going to improve it by playing hurt. I don't understand but you know again. Put yourself in the shoes of a twenty year old. That is playing his last college game. You want to be out there you know to me is sort of. Look at the coaches and doctors to write. Who's making that call. If you're the team doctor do you let him play. When he's limping around out there. So i i you know. I think you've gotta look at the adults in the room. Players wanna play porcelain. Wanna play. And i don't know what is agents people are saying. Well his agent when he hires. Him's not going to be. I'm sure he's got an agent not officially before the game. But i'm sure he has had discussions and no one would have advised him to play so that's interesting Reminds me twenty years ago back in the day. Ross when represented ricky williams he played in the hula bowl. Not not the the all star in hawaii. Yeah and uh. You shouldn't do this and he did. He really wanted to So it had no. It wasn't going to help him so that that happened. The texans i feel like our weekly conversation andrew. They originally were not going to interview eric enemy. Who evidently shawn watson has a preference for now. They were the only team. That hadn't put in for eric the enemy interview now. They put in for it but they can't interviewing for a couple of weeks because past the window where you could do that initial interview. Let me just say this about the texans. Because this is the you know the media. I'm part of it. You're part of it. But i'm seeing all these photoshop's last weekend of deshaun watson as a bear as a jet as as a dolphin wait a minute. Let's just put the brakes on the story after the beyond what you said. He's not going anywhere. Shawn watson is not going anywhere now yet set and yes. They didn't interview. They didn't console him. They didn't consult their own consulting of search firm. They're doing things kind road. But oh my god. They're not trading and he can't treat himself. We talked about the winds. Hit of thirty four million. This would be even more and then of course. Why would you do that. Why would you built your franchise. And i don't want i know people out there saying well he's gonna make himself a distraction and banning on it be there january. Okay you don't even report till may so this will be fine sean. Watson's not going anywhere but you have to question what they're doing and so now we know. The texans are not hiring coach till after the super bowl. Assuming make it all there but that seems to be at odds with getting a good staff these days and that's the natural friction with the hiring process. What did you think about andre johnson. The only texans player in the ring of honor coming out and telling shawn watson. Stand your ground. Nothing positives happened since easterby guy got there. I don't know if there's a similar example in green bay but how problematic is that or is that just another one where it will go away eventually. I think you have to look at it. It'll go away. But obviously that's that's a player with gravitas and be like if i'm green bay and you know reggie white said something like that or brett farve after he left. Yeah that's a concern but at the end of the day right you expect that from former players right you would be more surprised if andrew johnson said a. Sean stick it out. You'll be fine management's good right you be much more surprise so players take players views. I get it But there's a guy with grabbing tussaud. The texans like these past two discussions we just had they have some work to do and i think we all go back to what the name he said. This easter be. I don't know what's going on but he's got to be more upfront right. He's gotta be he's gotta face the music on what's going on. Why didn't you use the search firm. Why didn't he talk to sean. What's going on with the search You'd like to hear more from a we heard from the owner. But i think we need to hear from the decision maker there. Well we need to hear from you. Andrew every single week Whether it's on the stock football podcast or the business of sports or just following you on twitter at andrew brandt so we can read your columns it first sports illustrated etcetera etcetera. This was our first simulcast. It was cool. I don't think we'll do these. Moving forward but desperate times call for desperate measures. Enjoy miami andrew and thank you for all your insight on all of these extra and again started a newsletter. Two weeks ago inside branch dot com. Sign up for that you next week. Absolutely why winning by the way to three newsletter every sunday for man druids glorious. Very informative awesome. Thanks andrew. thanks for us.

doug peterson carson wentz andrew doug football eagles ross andrew brandt peterson jeffrey university of miami law school bob jeff Lurie howie roseman joe banner south florida Nick foles jeffrey loria Loria sean jackson
Bettye LaVette takes on the Bob Dylan songbook

The Frame

26:01 min | 2 years ago

Bettye LaVette takes on the Bob Dylan songbook

"From the Mon broadcast center at KP C. See this is the frame, I'm John horn unto days show, Emma Thompson was going to star in one of sky dance media's first animated films until the company hired disgraced Pixar executive John Lasseter, then on her first major label release in thirty years are and be legend, Betty Levette reinterprets Bob Dylan, only the first time she met Dylan. He walked right? Pastor. I was so angry at that point has that Robert Dillon any out and Upton man and his basically like see him out that's event and a Dutch singer songwriter on performing for American audiences for the first time all that coming up on the frame. Welcome to the frame. I'm John horn when David Ellison hired Pixar co founder, John Lasseter in January two head Ellison's new sky dance innovation studio. The response was swift organizations such as time's up and women in innovation. Condemned the decision and many sky, dance employees were furious. Pixar and Disney forced Lassiter out of his job as its chief creative officer last June, and that was after female employees alleged Lassiter had groped them and created a frat house like work environment where women were excluded. When Lassiter came to sky dance. The studio was in production on a movie called luck. And among its actors was Emma Thompson, but Thompson left the project soon after Lassiter's hiring, and she detailed her reasons in a letter to sky dance that was published today in the LA times, Mary McNamara's culture columnist and critic at the paper she wrote the story about Thompson's letter and she explained. How the head of sky dance address concerns about Lassiter's hiring back in January David Ellison Sunday, a really long, and it was a little like defiant, Email, basically saying we've talked to John and he understands that some things some things that he has done in the past were not appropriate. He has, you know, been addressing those issues, and it is in his contract that he must behave professionally so nobody should be worried. I mean, the the absurdity of like someone being hired at this level of, you know, oversight overseeing this huge staff, or, you know, I'm sure a lot of money and having his boss having to point out that he is contractually obligated to behave professionally is just I mean, my hair just liked went on fire. It's like they don't understand. This isn't just about the specific instances that women. Have detailed which are bad enough. I'm not saying in any way, but it's about creating an atmosphere in which women were shut out. And just the fact that he would get a job again. So quickly basically sends a message to everyone in Hollywood. Which is like this is not a big deal. You know, it's a blip in the road. So when he comes to sky dance emission the studio is already in development or production on a movie called luck. And one of the voice actors in this film as an actress by the name of Amitav, sin and Thomson recently decides that she wants no part in this movie. So what does Emma Thompson decide that she's going to do and how she's going to make her decision? Well, my understanding is that as soon as Lassiter was hired Emma Thompson contacted her representatives and started talking about I gotta get out of this film. And that she did indeed leave on January twentieth. She withdrew from the film, and then she sent a letter to sky dance explaining why she had withdrawn from the film and asking all the questions that people have been. Asking which is like how you know. Why was the staff I mean, one of the things after Lassiter's hiring? And I don't know if you heard from people at guidance, but I did off the record people were very upset women and men were upset they didn't want to have to deal with this. They didn't know what it said about their company. And so that was one of the questions she raised. It's like, well, why is John Lasseter getting a second chance when no one who's going to be working for him was asked if they wanted to give him a chance, and she and she just lists a long number of questions that his hiring had raised. And finally said she wanted to make this movie she wanted to work with the director. But she just couldn't in good conscience lend her name to it. So she writes a letter that she shares with the LA times, and you publish, and I think this letter will go on to be the Magna Carta or the declaration of independence of the metoo movement. And here's what she writes in one passage. I'm going to quote, sky, dance employees who don't wanna give him John Lasseter. A second chance have to stay and be on. Uncomfortable or lose their jobs. Shouldn't it be John Lasseter who has to lose his job? If the employee's don't wanna give him a second chance there's lots to single out on this. I think that's remarkable. What did you also notice about what Emma Thompson had to say? Well, I just thought the fact that she said that people like me have to take the stand. And if we don't nothing is going to change we can talk about it. We can have tasks force. We can have PSA's, and we should do all that. But Hollywood runs on money and star power. And until the stars that make the money the stars that make the projects run until they're willing to go. I'm not going to do this. You know, I will not work for this, man. Because I believe that this was not a good higher. I believe that this makes too many people uncomfortable that it's too dangerous for too many people. You know, David Ellison isn't taking a chance John Lasseter is not going to sexually. Him. But who knows and who's going to be the first person like, you know, everybody's on eggshells. Anyway, like who's going to be the person that if something happens it's guidance who's going to speak up because it's the women who are targeted. They're not equal to the power of the man. That's the whole point there. There are people who don't feel like they have the kind of voice now, I think that that has changed a little bit. I hope it's changed a lot. And I think that seeing someone like Emma Thomson take this kind of stand and walk away from a project that she was excited about doing sends a really great message to everyone, including her peers, this is another tool in terms of fixing Hollywood is that the people who are in these positions. These A-List people you need to do more than make statements. They need to make statements with their feet. So what happens to a project like luck? We'll somebody else come in and take it over or will the movie fall apart and a lot of people who were going to work lose their jobs. I mean, there's no real easy ending to the store. Is there? No. And that's something that she also addresses in the letter is stars do have that kind of responsibility for a project that they're you know, they are one person. But there is cast and crew and people who may be this is their first big job, and nobody wants to take that away from people. And so I'm sure it was a difficult decision. Because I don't know they haven't announced a replacement. I don't know what female actor would step in to do that. I don't know what their choices are going to be. I don't know what how the director. They've been very quiet. Nobody has been commenting. I, you know, I don't know how the director feels about it. But this was a very big deal for them. This was one of two big animation films that we're going to sort of put scions animation on the map. And this is not a good way to start. Mary McNamara is a culture columnist and critic at the L A times Mary. Thanks so much for coming on the show share, my pleasure. Coming up on the frame RB veteran, Betty Levette finds a soul in Bob Dylan song book. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn, Betty Levette released her first recording in nineteen sixty two the very same year that Bob Dylan's debut album came out after a long stop and start career the veteran Aren B singer has been on a roll she's released eight albums since two thousand and three. Her most recent things have changed is composed entirely. A Bob Dylan covers creatively. Reinterpreted by Levette. The song. Harry now is mama. You've been on my mind. The some cut let. Cross roads. Well, the stand, but as for the other covers on things have changed only true. Dylan I'ts will recognize some of the more obscure selections taken from one of Dylan's quieter periods between nineteen seventy nine and nineteen Eighty-nine lovitz producer on the album was Steve Jordan. He played drums on Dylan's nineteen eighty eight album down in the groove. When Levette recently visited our studio. She began by telling me how she navigated Dylan sometimes inscrutable lyrics. You'd be surprised how many people spent millions of dollars on him. And they have no idea what he's talking about. So I wanted to make clearer and then I had to understand them for myself. I wasn't linked to do something and say, the famous notion what that means because I don't know how to feel about it. If I don't know what it means. So there was some like. The tune mom you've been on my mind, which two different things. But whenever they meant something completely different to me. He was talking about a woman that he either is still audience. I went to and convict get or wanted to bid with and didn't couldn't forget. But I was talking about my, mama. And that was such a horrible teenager that works just lent themselves to a Mike rolling up. And so it it each one of them kind of some of the things I knew what he meant. And what he wanted you to know. And some of the things we shared the same meaning on when you were performing these songs in a in a club. You've been doing some very intimate shows and people who think they know these songs and people who think they know what they mean and how they should be performed here. Your interpretations of them. What is the most grad? Defying thing that you hear from them about a new understanding of the song that they're hearing that day in three she it understanding reject it off times. I mean, I'm sure yourself her tunes that you love forever. And somebody else did them you say oh out. I was awful. And I was expecting to get a lot of that. Because his fan base is more or less like a little show ch- at times. I've felt that was going to be like Martin Luther China gets the Catholics Catholic you. Call a church. Some people would call it a cult. You got to follow closely. But I really thought they would they would approach me that way, but I've met absolutely no rejection whatsoever to sing songs. Well, when I tried to get lyrics out that and put emphasis on them where he is so emotionless, he maybe writing about the most dire thing, very, good example. Is it a a we recorded it, and we will going home and went home and this to it. And we came back the next day. And I told Steve Jordan, the producer. I said here home, I an an and they put it on. And I said he skipped with me. And he said skip. And I said yes skip you can skip to this. And he's telling someone go and jump off of the ledge. So as it I'm gonna have to approach this differently. And that's the only one that. I it twice. But what I thought was the only probably I would tell you to go jump off of Lynch's if I. Just drunk. So I immediately thought about Jimmy re they are in Cam gone out my window. Listen to a little bit of it. Amy. And. No, no, no, no, no. You do it almost as if it's an armed be valid, and I think it really kind of changes the way the lyrics land. It's different song. Well, I'm a. But your again, they're just songs and using them the way you sick Nimit. It was certainly easier for me to sound like that. He sounds like Bob till sing them way. They feel right to me when we did times are changing I toll Steve Jordan or camp. I said the main thing I don't want to think about is the record. So anything that you can do take me another way. So I sang it Capella foot them I saw all of them on Capella for them. And then I sung with just a piano. So that they could ill me in arrangement around the way. I was singing how important do you think music that can be used as a protest song is because it seems as if some current artists and some older artists what they're saying about the world. We live in today is really getting people to think clearly about their role in the world and their role in change. I'm wondering if you think Dylan your music kind of fits into. How people can come together and get something done. I think that Dylan's did. But I try very hard not to make my music political. If you talk to me, I'm political. No. So I can just keep the music fewer. But I think that during the time that Dylan did his heaviest recording. I'm in we were in a different kind of turmoil than we are. Now, I think that if I recorded some now for political reasons would be much more tourists than Chang Chang. Shane. Shame. Now, we're talking with Betty Levette about her album. Things have changed. I'm gonna ask you about. What's happened in the music business since you came back? We have the advent of Napster which led to streaming the way that artists are paid way. The labels represent them has changed fundamentally in the last dozen years or so what part of the change is most frustrating to you. And are there some of the changes that you actually think are good for people discovering your music? Well, were in is is the dilemma with my feelings because just the technology in the many ways to reach music now has he'll me particularly because the thing that hurt moats out early on just shit. If you can get it to everybody. Then it's that's that's what the whole thing is about. And that's what cost money. So this is first time that this many people have heard me, I don't like the fact that people can't sit at home their basement and make recordings that sell millions of pieces. I don't know that I necessarily like this dropping in and out of the business in so many people have devoted their lives to it. But it all in all has been very good for me. You have actually been cranking it out, I think you have eight album releases since two thousand and three a lot faster than a lot of this is my fifth career. And this is the only one that's worked. So what does that pays mean to you? And are you going to just keep doing it as I said, I think that it's going has been good for me. I don't know that it's necessarily been good for the business itself. But these will doors. Open and I was able to keep into them. I don't know that I would want to right now. This is for some I've ever made any money. I'd like to enjoy that for a moment this up because I think since the first time since one thousand nine hundred eighty two in two thousand seventeen you signed with a major record label now that everybody's hearing it and more people are interested in looking me, you c-, you can either become is huge thing Ruth Springsteen. Will you can look your known from town to talented tap right now, still I'm only known from city to city that people have to come from towns to see me. I've always wanted to what I call a Ray Charles audience where they will young. Oh, black white Asian what everybody and that's beginning to look that way. From the first thirty years malady was entirely almost black then I did up on sugar Cab Calloway. That added a few whites. Then this fifth career happened. That added some more whites now audience is looking more like I wanted to look that's amazing. So when are you in Bob Dylan going to do a duet? Even don't you start talking to a fish, man. I just want this and just say my name we were in Italy. I came off the stage, and they hit my door my to surrounded. No one can come out mister Dylan's getting ready to go on the stage in that several give. You can say damn let me let me out of his dressing room. So when I come out. Threats. I'm going this way. I'm leaving. He's coming out go on stage with walking like this this much base apart. I guess, and I was so angry that point I said, I Robert Dillon any turned out. And it looked at me and his bass player it was with him and his bass player. I see him out. That's the vet. He came across to my his aunts kissed me square on lips and walked on the stage. And that's how only encounters so far. Well, let's hope that Bob Dylan wasn't the Alba them. And next time. He gives you more than a crash with it. I'd like to hear him say, he's fleas. I think he would be very little vets new album is called things have changed Betty. Thanks for coming in. Maybe thanks so much for having me. Coming up on the frame. A Dutch singer songwriter recalls performing for US audiences for her very first time. Welcome back to the frame. I'm John horn singer songwriter. Nana Joa has lived in the Netherlands for her entire life. But grew up listening to American India acts like Elliott Smith and back. She writes introspective lyrics drawing on her complex relationship with religion. And her Dutch Ghanaian identity, the single off her latest EP was titled dying of old age sounds a bit morbid. I know, but it's actually about growing closer to her Dutch grandmother, though, her songs are all in English. A Joe is most recent tour was her first time performing for US audiences. I don't know if you have the same thing. But when you grow up, you learn like numbers with colors where you're learning like Monday or Tuesday or one and three. So they re they were like three was blue like five, we're, Ed. I don't know. I think that's somewhere that stuck. I definitely have a feeling like okay this. So is orange. Or black and white. One of my friends put door and the other one headed drum set. So that meant that I was going to play the bass. And that actually was when I find out my motor was also bass player. So yes, she gave me my first base lessons. And actually, I don't know the title, but it was a level. Forty two song. Yeah. She played a low of in Cadel kind of stuff. She wasn't relating to like, slapping and stuff. Jeez. Yes. So my dad, I think he moved to the Nolan's somewhere in the eighties illegally just to get some work. And yeah, he met my moment. I'm Saddam when there were about twenty my mom was twenty. It was thirty or something. And I think that time almost pretty like punkish or something like my mom was like kind of rebel also because my Dutch families totally white so going with this African guy was also kind of rebellious act. Sure. I will lift in Amsterdam. And they're a lot of more like colored people where we lived we moved them. When when I was about four to kind of like surburbs kinda five which was more like a white neighborhood, or there were some people call are in different cultures. But they used to call my school of black school. But there were only a handful of color people in there. Down. I didn't really see myself as a singer necessarily. But I was writing my own song. So right and singing them. But like it was like a hidden thing. And it for myself not really out for out for the outset world. It's funny. I only wrote one song I think that's just the see how it works. Commoner talked this stuff Oklahoma. But yeah, I just grew up listening to music, which was always an English show. That's very natural for me. Is a for instance, this song the first line like opening folks that was the first line of rope. And then at the figure out what I wanted to do is box. So that took so type. I've been start with an idea is just like dischord. And then if you just play them long enough, something comes to mind like what you're actually feeling in. I need to kind of write something down. And when reading again, I understand what I feel. So it's kind of like a method to understanding my emotion success. Now, several legions popped up at one point. Because my parents both got religious after day, divorced. But me, and my sister aren't so it's kind of like a touchy subject sometimes. But yeah. So that brought me some new way of fewing things. Bye. She says down the fray, though. Death. So soon dying of old age. I had this wind down some conversations. I had with my grandmother things. I thought about when we were talking. The. She lost my grandpa, which I never met, and he was like about sixty or something. So she's been the like a big part of life alone. Also, she's free agents at it's like a small part in the northern part of the Netherlands. They also have their own language which had owns be anyway. Yeah, we have some discussions about life. And. Yeah. The difference with these US shows is that enough people. Listen to your voice doesn't right away. Register like all the words and Harrow was like really conscious of everybody could understood everything I will saying so I was like getting more into that myself. Also cow. Do I sing this song lyrically, and yes, so that was really a new experience to just know that everybody. The stands what you're saying. It's different really different that feature on Nana. A Joa was produced by the frames Jonathan Shiffling. That's our show for today. Remember, you can always get the frame as a podcast you'll find us wherever you like to listen, I'm John horn. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here tomorrow.

Bob Dylan Betty Levette John horn John Lasseter Emma Thompson Lassiter Hollywood David Ellison LA times Emma Thomson Dylan Robert Dillon director US Mary McNamara Pixar Steve Jordan Netherlands producer John
Introducing: Brainwashed

Hunting Warhead

25:05 min | 7 months ago

Introducing: Brainwashed

"I'm Justin link host of the village from CBC podcasts for years men were vanishing from Toronto's Gay village. The community had always suspected a serial killer and in the end they were right called a podcast that transcends true crime by the New Yorker and recommended by the Atlantic and esquire find the village on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. This is ABC podcast. In co-production with CBC's The v, the state brainwashed is a multiparty investigation into the CIA experiments in mind control from the Cold War and M. K. Ultra to the so-called war on terror learn about a psychiatrist who used his patients as Human Guinea Pigs at a Montreal hospital and what happens in times of fear when the military and medicine collide discover the ripple effect that the devastating experiments have had on the survivors, their families, and on thousands of other people around the world and how they are fighting back. Where are we right now in? Downtown we're facing McGill University. That's the droid there. As Michaela had. You got it. I hope we can make lifter news somewhere. Keep going right for now or Oh non period dear. Oh, that's illegal. Because on the island of Montreal, we are not considered adult enough to make a right turn on red light. Sorry about that. That's okay. I don't care. This is Alan Tanny and he's a character. I don't remember this. Never came. And did you ever go back? It looks him photos. It always looks so ominous. We've come to the Allan Memorial Institute perched on the side of Mount Royal. It's dark imposing building adorned with columns, chiseled cress, stony faces and snarling creatures. It was formerly known as Raven. Ravenscraig. This was once a mansion built by shipping magnate Sir Hugh Allen Thirty four bedrooms a library ballroom and outback large horse stables. His family later donated the majestic home to the Royal Victoria Hospital and McGill University in Nineteen forty three, it became a psychiatric hospital and training. Institute no as the our. Hustle is it for? Patients okay. Okay. I Look in the. Side my sarcasm he just wanted to see the inside. The inside was. Really A. Really. Want to see you. Ms. Your. If, only as the saying goes, these walls could talk. What happened inside this building changed Alan Tanis father's life forever. He was drugged and forced to undergo so-called medical treatments. That are much closer to torture. His father was part of a larger darker chapter of history involving secret human experiments and the search for mind control. It was really ugly. They. Talk. Basically. Healthy people and turn some of them into vegetables the the. The room piles of lives. I was yelling screaming leave me alone. You can't do this. It was just horrible the. Reply Lice and. Shattered it all. What happened at the our over half a century ago has consequences that are still felt today. And not just for the psychiatric patients in Montreal and their families. But in how intelligence operations are conducted around the world and places where medicine and the military collide. And no one has ever been charged. No one has been disciplined. Allows history to keep repeating itself. I'm Michelle Shepherd, and this is brainwashed episode one. Ravenscraig. Woah. Degree forty five minutes I think in the garage downstairs. Really unbelievable. Alan Tanny is now seventy two. He has a law degree from McGill University but had to take over his father's business before he got a chance to practice law and I, know you've done lots of this and I really appreciate your talking about. Like his father before him he turned out to be a pretty talented salesman. His latest business venture is selling snowblowers. Something Montreal needs desperately in the winter months. I buy snowblowers for one hundred thousand dollars and hope that I can sell them for one, hundred, twenty five. And that nothing goes wrong and I don't have to get caught on the warranty. That's my gamble. Montreal's a vibrant city filled with Victorian era architecture and lots of quaint French Bistros. But ALAN SAYS WE'VE MISSED MONTREAL's Golden Age back in the nineteen fifties when he was growing up. We fantastic. seriously. When I compare it to the childhood of my My children. Boy Did they miss out on a lot we had a great thank God we did whatever we wanted the weekends I would go out there was literally a roommate be fifty kids to go and play ball hockey with him. We would set up and teams and we would play from nine in the morning to six or seven at night. Your Mom and dad do. Father ran a What did he run a surplus business? He was he was buying army surplus. into other things when they built a Saint Laurent Class destroyers in the fifties, my father was manufacturing or having manufactured for him all electrical boxes and stuff like that, and he was bringing in street lights from from Europe. and My mother was helping them she. Charles Tanis business was booming in the nineteen fifties. This was after World War Two at the start of the Cold War when the US Soviet Union and China were fighting for supremacy. Relationship with your dad what he remember. According to Alan, his Charles was a real work, a Hollick. The kind of guy who never took a sick day and prided himself on that. He just kept his head down working on his business and helping raise three kids. Life was pretty good until the spring of Nineteen fifty-six. That's when Charles Tanis face began to hurt. It was a pain that started on the right side near his eye and extended down towards his mouth. Excruciating pain. My father had something called TriGem and Arousa. There's a nerve comes down in here and don't like that on your cheek. and. The pain from everything. I've read is horrific the main treatment In those days was to cut the nurse. And then you'd be disfigured on that side of your face. And plenty of people including you know some people that I knew had it and did it my father did not wish to do that. This is not a man who got sick. It's not a man who would take a day off of Work God forbid and here he was instead of going to work. He was sitting at home loan goat on the couch and chewing ice cubes all day long to try in freeze from the inside. And he apparently in nineteen forty, it had a similar tack that eventually went away. This time it was months-long Charles Tanny went to his doctor in search of relief but with no success, they tried all kinds of things and I think they finally decided that it was psychosomatic views working like a dog and he was under a lot of pressure. So I guess there was a lot of stress and he had this attack. And so that's how Charles Tanny ended up at the Allen. Psychiatry at the time was a relatively new field and mental illnesses were deeply stigmatized. Insane asylums were essentially where people were housed to be out of the Public Sight Lobotomies, insulin coma, and shock therapy where some of the only treatment options hospitals were chronically underfunded. At the large English Hospital Montreal, there was often just one psychiatrist for every three hundred patients. So the Allan Memorial Institute was going to take a new approach Charles Tanny felt fortunate. He could afford what was considered to be the best most cutting edge psychiatric care available. Modern Mental Hospital still has a long way to go Models of science. Of Intelligence. And compassion. Such a model is the Allan Memorial Institute of Psychiatry of Montreal. One of the foremost mental health institutions in the world. The personal comes to the Allan. Memorial Institute comes voluntarily voluntarily. I know bars. Are No locked doors. Perhaps, it was the islands lufti reputation that made no one questioned the hospitals and Orthodox treatments. Father got admitted. He got put to sleep for fifty six days. Being Asleep means, essentially, twenty one, twenty, two hours a day they wake them up to use the bathroom also, they didn't want him to use the bathroom they wanted them to go into in the bed. Incontinence was very important to them. They wanted to bring him back to the stage of being a baby. The family did not know exactly what was happening to Charles while he was in the hospitals care, that would take years to find out. Allen's brought some documents with him for reference even though he knows their details heart, there is father's medical records. And if dragging patients and putting them to sleep for such prolonged periods sounds a bit excessive for nerve pain. It gets worse. There was two machines that the used for the shock treatment. According to these hospital reports. Charles. was also given round after round of electroshock therapy. So my father was on the. First one and then doctor went in Rhode daily report and came up with the very alarming problem. My. Father asked to see my mother to even when he's in the sleep room here comes out and now farther us to see my mother. They were horrified. That he actually remembered that he had a wife. Nuts when Alan says, they upped the intensity of his father shock therapy and a second more aggressive round of shocks were administered. The goal at seemed was to make Charles Forget everything. Soul instead of giving one shock and and that was it. This one would give like six. Bang. Bang Bang Bang Bang. Bang. This. Form of E. C. T. or electroconvulsive therapy was known as the page Russell named after its inventors. He had been running at the rate of two page. Russell's a day because of his hostility and violence he is struggling against eating has to be tube-fed, and we'll know by day forty-one Charles Tanis medical chart notes that he is confused and occasionally incontinent. This is forty eighth day of sleep. He has no knowledge of where he is a lot of the time. He was pretty cheerful and childish. Though at other times, he will show little bursts facility. Ten would not take the medication willingly for the most part his records state he had to receive it by injection. He was. Very heavily dull stone on drugs, all kinds of barbituates, but unlike most patients he did lord gave us. Unlike most patients he did not get LSD. There are many patients at the Allen who did. They received the new second Alec drug without any warning or consent. Was all part of these extreme so-called treatments. They started out with LS day. I gave me Sodium Amitav? they gave me electric shock treatment I understand there were one hundred times more powerful than what was considered acceptable. And then they put me to sleep for twenty three days. From CBC PODCASTS and the Fifth Estate brainwashed is a multi part investigation into the CIA experiments in mind control from the Cold War and M. K. ultra to the so called war on terror, we learn about a psychiatrist who used his patients as human guinea pigs and what happens when the military and medicine collide listen to brainwashed. ABC LISTEN APP or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi I'm. Josh block host of uncover nexium from CBC podcasts. I pull back the curtain on the secret of self help group that experts call a cult and follow one woman's Harrowing Journey to get out the podcast featured in in rolling, Stone magazine and named one of the best podcasts of two thousand and eighteen in the. Atlantic. Listened to uncover escaping nexium on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. I had never been before in my life. And when I had my daughter, I became very depressed and those days we didn't know anything about postpartum depression. I just do that I didn't have much zest for lending. So I I went to the head of the Department of Psychiatry and said Look I want to go away and get better. Than we chose the Allen. I remember having a helmet. Football Helmet with speakers in ears. And I remember sitting on the floor and they played tapes ongoing. All Day long which went on for a little over a month. Sought trae with a needle syringe. And the card on it had my name. So I looked a little more closely and it was lysergic acid diethylamide and has was a druggist and I knew a lot of drugs, but I never heard of that one. I mentioned and I didn't like it. And it really did create a poisonous psychosis. During. The night the wake us up and give US A. Glass of bills. became very distorted. And I thought my bones were all male. Ching. Elucidating and they kept telling me you're getting smaller and smaller bringing me back in time and ask me all kinds of questions. I was just an absolute nightmare is absolutely crying for hours and hours and hours. I, mean really from deep inside of me. I was in comatose state for seventy two consecutive days. And in order to get me into that state I had over one hundred and nine electroconvulsive shock treatments. Their objective was to white my my memory. I suffered I suffered like yeah. Former patients Robert logie. Bow Ortho Helen Macintosh jean-charles pasia, and Linda McDonald. There are over hundred patients who receive these extreme forms of treatment. The island for days, weeks months. Many women with mild symptoms suffering from conditions we identified today as postpartum, depression or anxiety. Most emerged fundamentally changed. This is held at Bernstein. She was at the island for three weeks. I didn't know my husband, my children, my brother in law and his wife and my sister at that time. When she saw me, she cried she is a registered nurse to, and she said she'd never seen such a change in a person in three weeks. But I really dreadful. And Linda McDonald. I had to be toilet trained. I was a vegetable. I had no identity I no memory never existed in the world before a baby. Just like a baby that has to be toilet trained. Or the Co.. At one point I thought, I would just go out and jumped in front of a car on a busy thoroughfare in Montreal. I stood there swayed for quite a while and then decided that all that would happen would be. With my luck I just be battered physically. Back then with but I don't know it's very difficult things about sometimes. brain injuries memory loss crippling depression unable to relearn basic life skills and suicide. Allentown. Father. Charles left the hospital after three and a half months he was a completely different man. Allen was eight years old when his father returned home young but not too young to remember what he was like before he entered. It was really ugly. When you're eight years old and your father is there and you know you have your whole life right with him. And he comes back three months later and he's not the same person. It's like you look at them every day, but he's a stranger. How. is He different in terms of completely different? Lost a sense of fun. You wouldn't do anything. sloppily Kiwi wasn't a great athlete but. Before, he might throw a ball around that never happened again. Gordon Football Games, or going to a hockey game intermittently used to have season tickets for the Canadian soup. Used to tell me to take my sister one of my sisters, he had no no desire to go. But what's that like for kids to have lost somebody who's still right in front of you? Oh, my shrink spent a lot of time on that. You know he said it's devastating. It's very very difficult to to rationalize for a kid. He told me as worse than than from a death. Father's gone you know what you adapt to it. But here your father's Gone But. You can never adapt to it. You can never really deal with it because every day you wake up, you look at them. Very is. In case, you were wondering all these drugs induce coma that shocked treatments. None of it cured Charles Tanis problem the nerve pain in his face. Twelve years later he had another attack and by that time there was a drug called Tegretol. Put my father and Tegretol, a week later was gone. So, how could this have been allowed to happen and why? Part of that answer lies with the man who was running the Allen. One of the world's most well respected psychiatrists. Very very impressive man. And I was told it was the best doctor in North America I thought how could he possibly ever take me for patients? Who am I being this great man who's done all these barbarous thing And boy I'd better work hard and I better do everything that he tells me to do and. You know I, don't WanNa lose this opportunity to get well. He was constantly on on the goal rushing about highly articulate always seem to know what he was doing commanding in his personal appearance and in his manner. self-assured and extremely ambitious his ambition Sean through. Just about everything else. He was. An authoritarian. Ruthless. Hungry. Nervous. Tense Angry. Now Trading Nights. And he strode the halls like giant. And people would say, oh there but for God goes God. Everybody in the hospital is very much at all. Cameron. On the next episode of brainwashed the Nuremberg Code Secrets, CIA projects, and doctor named you and Cameron. Would you describe the New Treatment Dr Cameron? This is essentially an attempt to modify and improve our methods of accounting out psychotherapy this type of recording the recording to the patient over and over again sound something like the conditioning technique in the brave new world does it have any similarity at all to it or to communist brainwashing? For instance? No, it doesn't. Brainwashed is written and produced by Lisa. Ellen would Chris Oak and meet Michelle. Shepherd Sarah Mountain is our associate producer sound design by Cecil Fernandez our digital producer is emily canal. The senior producer of CBC podcast is Tanya Springer and our executive producer is our if neuron. Special thanks to Alina Gauche, Keith Hart CBC Radio Archives and the CBC Reference Library. For discussions, posts, videos and pictures find us on social media just search for CBC podcasts facebook twitter and Instagram. Our theme song is desert novel by key witness. Brainwashed is produced by CBC PODCASTS and the Fifth State. This has been the first episode of brainwashed listened to episode two right now, and you can subscribe for free on the CBC listen APP or wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC podcasts. Go to CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Sir Hugh Allen CBC Montreal Charles CIA Charles Tanis ALAN Charles Tanny Alan Tanny McGill University Allan Memorial Institute hockey right turn on red Royal Victoria Hospital Father ABC Allan Memorial Institute of Ps Alan Tanis Dr Cameron
Introducing: Brainwashed

Front Burner

25:30 min | 7 months ago

Introducing: Brainwashed

"Hi I'm anesthesia abuse. I am a two time Olympic speedskater my whole life I have been surrounded by athletes and every one of them has a story that a scoreboard will never capture. It's not an easy thing to be with an athlete that don't understand why they're making fun of me because I like to figure escape players on voices all about the person inside the performance when you're so in it I think perhaps we're the people that understand the least subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hey there we have a special episode for front. Burners podcast subscribers. It's the first episode of brainwashed in co production with CBC's the Fifth Estate Brainwashed is a multi part investigation into the experiments in mind control from the Cold War and M. K. Ultra to the so called war on terror, you want about a psychiatrist who used his patients as Human Guinea Pigs at a Montreal hospital and what happens in times of fear when the military and medicine collide. You also discover the ripple effect that the devastating experiments have had on the survivors and their families and on thousands of people around the world and how they're fighting back. We've got the first episode for you right now heavily. Where are we right now in? Downtown we're facing. McGill. University. That's the droid there. As Michaela behead yeah. You got it. Hopefully. We can make lifter news somewhere. Keep going right for an hour. Oh non period there oh, that's illegal. Because on the island of Montreal, we are not considered adult enough to make a right turn on red light. Sorry about that. That's okay. I don't care. This is Alan Tanny and he's a character. I don't remember this. You never came. And did you ever go back? Looks him photos? It always looks so ominous. We've come to. The Allan Memorial Institute perched on the side of Mount Royal. It's dark imposing building a with columns chiseled cress stony faces and snarling creatures. It was formerly known as. Ravenscraig. This was once a mansion built by shipping magnate Sir Hugh Allen Thirty four bedrooms a library ballroom and out back large horse stables. His family later donated the majestic home to the Royal Victoria Hospital and McGill University in Nineteen, forty three. It became a psychiatric hospital and training institute no as the our. Hospital. For mental patient. Okay. Okay. I. Look in the lobby here. Side. Sarcasm he just wanted to see the inside. Inside my father was. Really. Really. Want to see you. Misery ears. If only as the saying goes, these walls could talk. What happened inside this building changed Allen Tanis father's life forever. He was drugged and forced to undergo so-called medical treatments. That much closer to torture. His father was part of a larger darker chapter of history involving secret human experiments and the search for mind control. WAS REALLY UGLY They talk basically. Healthy people and turned some of them into vegetables the the. The Room Piles? Of. Lives. I was screaming leave me alone. You can't do this. It was just horrible the deploy lice and. Shattered, it all over the place. What happened at the Allen over half a century ago has consequences that are still felt today. And not just for the psychiatric patients in Montreal and their families. But in how intelligence operations are conducted around the world places where medicine and the military collide. And no one has ever been charged. No one has been disciplined. which allows history to keep repeating itself. I'm Michelle Shepherd and this is brainwashed episode one Ravenscraig. Walla. To forty five minutes I think in the garage downstairs. Really. Oh, it's unbelievable. Alan Tanny is now seventy two. He has a law degree from McGill. University but had to take over his father's business before he got a chance to practice law I, know you've done lots of this and I really appreciate your talking about. Like his father before him, he turned out to be pretty talented salesman. His latest business venture is selling snowblowers. Something Montreal needs desperately in the winter months. I buy snowblowers for one hundred, thousand dollars and hope that I can sell them for one, hundred, twenty five. And that nothing goes wrong and I don't have to get caught on the warranty. That's my gamble. Montreal's a vibrant city filled with Victorian era architecture and lots of quaint French. Bistros. But ALAN SAYS WE'VE MISSED MONTREAL's Golden Age back in the nineteen fifties when he was growing up. We fantastic seriously. When I compare it to the childhood of my. My children. Boy Did they miss out on a lot? We had a great thank God. We did whatever we wanted the weekends. I would go out there was literally A. Fifty kids to go and play ball hockey with him. We would set up and teams and we would play from nine in the morning to six or seven at night. was. Your Mom and dad do. Father ran a What did he broke? Surplus business he was. Buying army surplus. In Tyler things when they built a sailor, all closet destroyers in the fifties, my father was manufacturing or having manufactured for him all electrical boxes and stuff like that, and he was bringing in streetlights from from Europe. and My mother was helping them she. Charles Tanis business was booming in the nineteen fifties. This was after World War Two at the start of the Cold War when the US Soviet Union and China were fighting for surpremacy. Relationship with your dad what do you remember? According to Alan his father Charles was a real work. Hollick. The kind of guy who never took a sick day and prided himself on that. He just kept his head down working on his business and helping raise three kids. Life was pretty good until the spring, of nineteen, fifty-six. That's when Charles Tanis face began to hurt. It was a pain that started on the right side near his eye and extended down towards his mouth. Excruciating pain. My father had something called TriGem an own Arousa. There's a nerve comes down in here and don't like that. Cheek. And the pain from everything I've read is horrific the main treatment. In those days was to cut the nurse. And then you be disfigured on that side of your face. And plenty of people including you know some people that I knew it and did it my father did not wish to do that. This is not a man who got sick. It's not a man who would take a day off of Work God forbid, and here he was instead of going to work. He was sitting at home loan goat on the couch and chewing ice cubes all day long to try in freeze it from the inside. And he apparently in nineteen forty, it had a similar attack that eventually went away. This. Time it was months-long. Charles Tanny went to his doctor in search of relief. But with no success, they tried all kinds of things and I think they finally decided that it was psychosomatic views working like a dog and he was under a lot of pressure. So I guess there was a lot of stress and he had this attack. and. So that's how Charles Tanny ended up at the Allen. Psychiatry at the time was a relatively new field and mental illnesses were deeply stigmatized. Insane asylums were essentially were people were housed to be out of the public site lobotomies, insulin coma, and shock therapy where some of the only treatment options hospitals were chronically underfunded at the large, English hospital. Outside of Montreal. There was often just one psychiatrist for every three hundred patients. So the Allan Memorial Institute was going to take a new approach Charles Tanny felt fortunate. He could afford what was considered to be the best most cutting edge psychiatric care available. In Mental Hospital still has a long way to go Models of science. Of Intelligence. And compassion. Such a model is the Allan Memorial Institute of Psychiatry of Montreal. One of foremost mental health institutions in the world. The personal trump's to the Allan Memorial. Institute. Comes voluntarily and leaves voluntarily. There are no bars. Are No. Locked doors. Perhaps. It was the islands lofty reputation that made no one questioned the hospitals and Orthodox treatments. Father got admitted. He got put to sleep for fifty six days. Being Asleep Means Essentially Twenty one to twenty two hours a day they wake up to use the bathroom although they didn't want him to use the bathroom they wanted them to go into in the bed. Incontinence was very important to them. They wanted to bring him back to the stage of being a baby. The family did not know exactly what was happening to Charles while he was in the hospitals care that would take years to find out. Allen's brought some documents with him for reference even though he knows their details by heart, there is father's medical records. And if dragging patients and putting them to sleep for such prolonged periods sounds a bit excessive for nerve pain. It gets worse. There was two machines that they used for the shock treatment. According to these hospital reports Charles was also given round after round of electroshock therapy. So my father was on the. First one and then doctor went in Rhode daily report and came up with the very alarming problem. My father asked to see my mother to even when he's in the sleep room, Kia comes out and now farther us to see my mother. They were horrified. That he actually remembered that he had a wife. That's when Alan says they upped the intensity of his father shock therapy and a second more aggressive round of shocks were administered. The goal at seemed was to make Charles Forget everything. Soul instead of giving one shock and and that was it this one would give like six. Bang. Bang Bang Bang Bang Bang. This. Extreme form of E. C. T. or electroconvulsive therapy was as the page Russell named after its inventors. He had been running at the rate of two page. Russell's a day because of the austerity in violence he is struggling against eating has to be tube fed and will by day forty-one Charles Tanis medical chart notes that he is confused and occasionally incontinent. This is forty eighth day of sleep. He has no knowledge of where he is a lot of the time. He is pretty cheerful and childish. Though, at other times, he will show little bursts of hostility. Tanny would not take the medication willingly for the most part his records state he had to receive it by injection. Very. Heavily dull stone on drugs, all kinds of barbituates. But unlike most patients he did Marquette OAS the. Unlike most patients he did not get LSD. There are many patients at the Allen who did. They received the new second delic drug without any warning or consent. Was all part of these extreme so-called treatments. They started out with LSD. Gave Me Sodium Amitav? they gave me electric shock treatment I. Understand there were one hundred times more powerful than what was considered acceptable. And then they put me to sleep for twenty three days. The theatres have closed, but the show local on play me podcast is thrilled to present a new series. The show must go on featuring provocative productions from some of North America's most acclaimed creators for the stage. Sit back and experience everything from chilling thrillers to Gut wrenching dramas to irreverent comedies. Each month experience the exhilaration of theatre from the comfort of your own home play me available wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nah I host of ideas in this age of Click Bait and online shouting ideas is a meeting ground for people who want to deepen their understanding of the world. Join me as we crack open a concept to see how it plays out over place and time and how it matters today from the rise of authoritarianism to the history of cult movies no idea is off limits ideas on the CBC listen up or wherever you find your podcasts. I had never been ill before in my life. And when I had my daughter, I became very depressed and those days we didn't know anything about postpartum depression and I just knew that I didn't have much zest relenting. So I I went to the head of the Department of Psychiatry and said, look I want to go away and get better. Than we chose the Allen. I remember having a helmet. Football Helmet with speakers in ears. And I remember sitting on the floor and big played tapes ongoing. All. Day Long which went on for a little over online. Thought trae with a needle syringe. And the card on it had my name. So I looked little more closely and it was lysergic acid diethylamide and my husband was a druggist and I knew a lot of drugs but never heard of that one. I took the intention and I didn't like it. And it really did create a poisonous psychosis. During the night the wake us up and give us other. Glass of bills. distorted. And I thought my bones were all ching. Soliciting, and they kept telling me you're getting smaller and smaller and bringing me back in time and asked me all kinds of questions. I was just an absolute nightmare is absolutely prying for hours and hours and hours mean really from deep inside of me. I was in a comatose state for seventy two consecutive days. And in order to get me into that state, I had over one hundred, nine electro convulsive shock treatments. Their objective was to white my my memory. I suffered I. suffered like. Former patients, Robert logie. Bowel the. Helen Macintosh jean-charles Pagey and Linda McDonald. There over hundred patients who receive these extreme forms of treatment staying at the island for days weeks months. Many. Were Women with mild symptoms suffering from conditions we identified today as postpartum, depression or anxiety. Most emerged fundamentally changed. This is held at Bernstein. She was at the island for three weeks. I didn't know my husband and my children, my brother-in-law and his wife and my sister not that time when she saw me, she cried she is a registered nurse to, and she said she'd never seen such a change in a person in three weeks. But I I look really dreadful. And Linda McDonald. I had to be toilet trained. I was a vegetable. I had no identity I'd no memory. I'd never existed in the world before a like a baby. Just like a baby that has to be toilet trained. In vote or the COO. At one point I thought I would just go out and jump in front of a car. I'm busy. Montreal. I stood there way for quite a while and then decided that all that would happen would be with my luck I just be battered physically I'd have that to contend with I don't know it's. Very, difficult. Think about some type. Brain injuries, memory loss crippling depression unable to relearn basic life skills and suicide. Allentown. His Father Charles left the hospital after three and a half months he was a completely different man. Allen was eight years old when his father returned home young but not too young to remember what he was like before he entered. It was really ugly. When you're eight years old and your father is there and you know you have your whole life right with him. And he comes back three months later and he's not the same person. It's like you look at him every day, but he's a stranger. How is he different in terms of completely different? You know he was A. lost. A sense of fun. You wouldn't do anything. It's luckily he wasn't a great athlete but. Before he might throw a ball around them never happened again. Going to football games or going to a hockey game. Intermittently, we used to have season tickets for the Canadian tube. Used to tell me to take my sister one of my sisters he had no desire to go. But what's that like for a kid to have lost somebody who's still right in front of you Oh, shrinks spent a lot of time on that. You know he said it's devastating. It's it's very, very difficult to to rationalize kit. Tells me as worse than than from a death? Father's gone. You know what you adapt to it. But here your father's gone. But you can never adapt to it. You can never really deal with it because every day you wake up, you look at. Various. In case you were wondering all these drugs, the induced coma that shock treatments. None of it cured Charles Tanis problem the nerve pain in his face. Book twelve years. Later he had another attack, and by that time, there was a drug called. Tech Worth Tall. Put my Father Integra. Toll a week later was gone So. How could this have been allowed to happen and why? Part of that answer lies with the man who was running the Alan one of the world's most well respected psychiatrist. He was very, very impressive man. And I was told it was the best doctor in North America I thought how could he possibly ever take me for patient? Houma. Great man who's done all these marvelous things. And boy I'd better work hard and I better do everything that he tells me to do and. You Know I. Don't want to lose this opportunity to get well. He was constantly on the goal rushing about highly articulate always seemed to know what he was doing commanding in his personal appearance in his manner. self-assured and extremely ambitious his ambition Sean through just about everything else. He was. An authoritarian. Ruthless. Hungry Nervous. Tense Angry. And Trading Nice. And he strode the halls like a giant. And people would say, Oh there. But for God goes God, everybody in the hospital is very much an all. Talk Cameron. On. The next episode of brainwashed the Nuremberg. Code Secrets CIA projects an doctor named you and Cameron. Would you describe the new treatment Dr Cameron This is essentially an attempt to modify and improve our methods of accounting out psychotherapy this type of recording, play the recording back to the patient over and over again sounds something like the conditioning technique in the brave new world does it have any similarity at all to it or to Communist brainwashing, for instance? It doesn't. Brainwashed is written and produced by Lisa. Ellen. would. Chris Oak and me Michelle Shepherd Sarah Melton is our associate producer sound design by Cecil. Fernandez our digital producer is emily canal. The senior producer of CBC podcast is Tanya Springer and our executive producer is our if neuron. Special thanks to Alina. Gauche Keith Hart, CBC Radio Archives and CVC. Reference Library. For discussions, posts, videos, and pictures find us on social media just search for CBC podcasts on facebook twitter and instagram. Our theme song is desert novel by key witness. Brainwashed is produced by CBC PODCASTS and the Fifth Estate. You've been listening to the first episode of brainwashed episode. Two is available right now, you can subscribe for free on the was an APP or wherever you get your podcasts. For more CBC PODCASTS TO CBC DOT CA. Slash, podcasts.

Sir Hugh Allen Alan Tanny Montreal Charles Charles Tanny Charles Tanis CBC North America hockey Allan Memorial Institute Father Mount Royal right turn on red Allen Tanis Allan Memorial Institute of Ps Football Dr Cameron Montreal hospital McGill
Introducing: Brainwashed

Uncover

25:15 min | 7 months ago

Introducing: Brainwashed

"From CBC policies and the Fifth Estate brainwashed is a multi part investigation into the CIA experiments in mind control from the Cold War and M., K. Ultra to the so-called war on terror. We learn about a psychiatrist who used his patients as human guinea pigs and what happens when the military and medicine collide listen to brainwashed on the CBC listen up or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. In co-production with CBC's the fifth state brainwashed is a multi part investigation into the CIA's experiments in mind control from the Cold War and M. K. ultra to the so called war on terror learn about a psychiatrist who used his patients as Human Guinea Pigs at a Montreal hospital and what happens in times of fear when the military and medicine collide discover the ripple effect that the devastating experiments have had on the survivors, their families, and on thousands of other people around the world and how they are fighting back. Are. We right now, my shell downtown, we're facing McGill University. That's it right there. That's Miguel. You got. On hopefully, we can make lifter new somewhere. John keep going right for now or. Oh, you're not an interior. Full of that's illegal. Because on the island of Montreal, we are not considered adult enough to make a right turn. On Red White. Sorry about that. That's okay. I don't care. This is Alan Tany and A character. See. I don't remember this. Did you ever go back. nope. Looks him photos that always looks so ominous. We've come to the Allan Memorial Institute perched on the side of Mount Royal. It's dark imposing building adorned with columns, chiseled Chris, Stony faces, and snarling creatures. It was formerly known as. Ravenscraig. This was once a mansion built by shipping magnate Sir Hugh Allen Thirty four bedrooms a library ballroom an out back large horse stables. His family later donated the majestic home, the Royal Victoria Hospital and McGill University in Nineteen, forty three it became a psychiatric hospital and training institute known as the Allen. Hustle, is it a mental patient? Okay. Okay. I. Look in the lobby here. Outside. Sarcasm, he just wanted to see the inside. The inside my father was easy to. Really. Nothing really. Want you. Misery here. If only as the saying goes, these walls could talk. What happened inside this building changed Alan. Tanis father's life forever. He was drugged and forced to undergo so-called medical. Treatments. That were much closer to torture. His father was part of a larger darker chapter of history involving secret human experiments and the search for mind. Control. It was really ugly. Talk Basically. Healthy people and turn some of them into vegetables the the. The. Room. Piles. Of Lives. I was yelling screaming, leave me alone. You can't do this. It was just horrible the. Apply life and. Shattered it all over the place. What happened at the Allen over half a century ago has consequences that are still felt today. And not just for the psychiatric patients in Montreal and their families. But in how intelligence operations are conducted around the world in places where medicine and the military collide. And no one has ever been charged. No one has been disciplined. which allows history to keep repeating itself. I'm Michelle Shepherd and this is brainwashed episode one, Ravenscraig? Salad. Degree about forty five minutes I think in the garage downstairs really Oh. It's unbelievable. Alan Tanny is now seventy two. He has a law degree from McGill University but had to take over his father's business before he got a chance to practice law and I know you've done lots of this and I really appreciate you talking about. Pro. Like his father before him, he turned out to be a pretty talented salesman. His latest business venture is selling snowblowers something. Montreal. Needs desperately in the winter months. I buy snowblowers for one hundred, thousand dollars and hope that I can sell them for one, hundred, twenty five. And that nothing goes wrong and I don't have to get caught on the warranty. That's my gamble. entrails. Filled. With Victorian era architecture and lots of Queen French Bistros but Alan we've missed Montreal's Golden Age back in the nineteen fifties when he was growing up. We. Fantastic. seriously. What I compare it to the childhood of my. My children. Boy Did they miss out on a lot? We had a great. Thank. God we did whatever we wanted weekends I would go out there was literally if your roommate be fifty kids to go and play ball hockey with them, we would set up in teams and we would play from nine in the morning to six or seven at night. Did you remember that do. Father Ran A. What did he bring a surplus business? He was he was buying army surplus. In two other things when they built a Saint Laurent closet destroyers in the fifty S, my father was manufacturing or having manufactured for him all electrical boxes and stuff like that, and he was bringing in streetlights from from Europe. and My mother was helping them she. Charles Tanis business was booming in the nineteen fifties. This was after world. War Two at the start of the Cold War when the US Soviet Union and China were fighting for supremacy. Relationship with your dad what he remember. According to Alan his father Charles was a real workaholic the kind of guy who never took a sick day and prided himself on that. He just kept his head down working on his business and helping raise three kids. Life was pretty good until the spring of Nineteen fifty six. That's when Charleston his face began to hurt. It was a pain that started on the right side near his eye and extended down towards his mouth. Excruciating pain. My father had something called. TriGem Jemele NEURALGIA. There's a nerve comes down in here and don't like that on your cheek. And The pain from everything I've read is horrific. The main treatment in those days was to cut the nurse. And then you'd be disfigured on that side of your face. And plenty of people including. Some people that I knew had it and did my father did not wish to do that. So this is not a man who got sick. It's not a man who would take a day off, of work, God forbid and here he was instead of going to work. He was sitting at home language on the couch and chewing ice cubes all day long to try and freeze it from the inside. And apparently in nineteen forty had a similar attack. Eventually went away. This time it was months-long. Charles Tanny went to his doctor in search of relief. But with no success, they tried all kinds of things and I think they finally decided that it was psychosomatic views working like a dog and he was under a lot of pressure. So it was. A lot of stress and he had this attack. and. So that's how Charles Tanny ended up at the Allen. Psychiatry at the time was a relatively new field and mental illnesses were deeply stigmatized. Insane asylums were essentially where people were housed to be out of the public sight lobotomies, Insulin Comas, and shock therapy were some of the only treatment options hospitals were chronically underfunded. At the large English Hospital outside of Montreal, there was often just one psychiatrist for every three hundred patients. So the Allan Memorial Institute was going to take a new approach. Charles. Tanny. Felt fortunate. He could afford what was considered to be the best most cutting edge psychiatric care available. Modern Mental, hospital still has a long way to go. But here, there are models of science. Of Intelligence. And of compassion. Such a model is the Allan Memorial Institute of Psychiatry of Monkey All. One of the foremost mental health institutions in the world. The person who comes to the Allan Memorial Institute comes voluntarily leave voluntarily. There are know bars. There are no locked doors. Perhaps was the islands lofty reputation that made no one questioned the hospitals and Orthodox treatments. My father got admitted he got put to sleep for fifty six days. Being Asleep Means Essentially Twenty one to twenty two hours a day they wake him up to use the bathroom although they didn't want him to use the bathroom. They wanted them to go in the bed. Incontinence. was very important to them. They wanted to bring him back to the stage of being a baby. The family did not know exactly what was happening to Charles while he was in the hospitals care that would take years to find out. Alan's brought some documents with him for reference even though he knows their details by heart, there is father's medical records. And if dragging patients and putting them to sleep for such prolonged periods, sounds a bit excessive for nerve pain. It gets worse. There was two machines that they used for the shock treatment. According to these hospital reports, Charles was also given round after round of electroshock therapy. So my father was on the. First. One and then doctor went in Rodas daily report and came up with the very alarming problem. My father asked to see my mother to even when he's in the sleep room here comes out our father us to see my mother. They were horrified. That he actually remembered that he had a wife. That's when Alan says, they upped the intensity of his father shock therapy and a second more aggressive round shocks were administered. The goal seemed was to make Charles Forget everything. So instead of giving one shock and and that was it this one would give like six. Bang. Bang Bang Bang. Bang Bang. This extreme form of E. C. T. or electroconvulsive therapy was known as the page Russell named after its inventors. had been running at the rate of two page Russell's a day because of his hostility and violence he is struggling against eating and has to fed and will by day forty, one Charles Tanis, medical chart notes that he is confused and occasionally incontinent. This is his forty eighth day of sleep. He has no knowledge of where he is. A lot of the time is pretty cheerful and childish. Though, at other times, he will show little bursts of hostility. Tanny would not take the medication willingly for the most part his record state, he had to receive it by injection. Very heavily dose on on drugs, all kinds of. Woods but unlike most patients he did not Gero Esti. Unlike most patients, he did not get LS T.. There are many patients at the Allen who did. They received the new psychedelic drug without any warning or consent. Was all part of these extreme. So treatments. They started out with LSD. gave. Me Sodium Amitav they gave me electric shock treatments what I understand there were one hundred times more powerful. What was considered acceptable And then they put me to sleep for twenty three days. Hi. I'm Dr Brian Goldman. If you haven't heard my new podcast the dose this is the perfect time to subscribe. Each we answer your most pressing health related questions, and right now we know you're grappling with covid nineteen on. The does we bring in top experts to answer your questions about the corona virus and post some of our own get the latest evidence in a way that's under stand by subscribing to the dose. It's your guide to getting through this difficult time. You can find the dose wherever you get your podcasts. From CBC PODCASTS and the Fifth Estate brainwashed is a multi burn investigation into the as. In mind control from the Cold War and M. K. Ultra to the so called war on terror, we learn about a psychiatrist to use his patients as human guinea pigs and what happens when the military and medicine collide listen to brainwashed on the CBC listen APP or wherever you get your podcast. I had never been ill before in my life. And when I had my daughter, I became very depressed and those days we didn't know anything about postpartum depression. I knew that I didn't have much zest for lending. So I went to the head of the Department of Psychiatry and said Look I want to go away and get better. We chose the Allen. I remember having a helmet. Football Helmet with, speakers, in ears. And I remember sitting on the floor and they played tapes ongoing. All Day long which went on for a little over a month. Thought tray with a needle syringe. And the card on it had my name. So I looked a little more closely and it was lysergic acid diethylamide and my husband was a druggist and I knew a lot of drugs but never heard of that one. I took the. and. I didn't like it and it really did create a poisonous psychosis. During the wake us up and. Other. Glass of bills room became very distorted and I thought my bones were all melting. Solution, eating and they kept telling me you're getting smaller and smaller than bringing me back in time and ask all kinds of questions was just an absolute nightmare absolute prying for hours and hours and hours I mean really from deep inside of me. I was in a coma TOE STATE FOR SEVENTY TWO? Consecutive days. and. In order to get me into that state, I had over one hundred, nine electroconvulsive convulsive shock treatments. Their objective was to white my my memory. I suffered I suffered like. Former patients Robert logie. Bow or the CO Helen Macintosh jean-charles pasia and Linda McDonald. There are over hundred patients who receive these extreme forms of treatment staying at the island for days weeks months. Many were women with mild symptoms suffering from conditions we identified today as postpartum, depression or anxiety. Most emerged fundamentally changed. This is Hilda Bernstein she was at the island for three weeks. I didn't know my husband and my children, my brother in law and his wife and. My sister-in-law that time when she saw me, she cried she's a registered nurse Tuban. She said she'd never seen such a change in person in three weeks. But I. I looked really dreadful. And Linda McDonald. I had to be toilet trained. I was a vegetable. I had no identity. I'd no memory I'd never existed in the world before a like a baby. Just like a baby that has to be toilet trained. OR THE CO At one point I thought I would just go out and jump in front of us a car. Montreal y'all. I stood there swayed for quite a while and then decided that all that would happen would be with my luck. I just be battered physically. That to contend with. But I don't know it's very difficult thing about sometimes. Brain injuries memory loss crippling depression unable to relearn basic life skills and suicide. Alan. Taints Father Charles left the hospital after three and a half months. He was a completely different man. Allen was eight years old when his father returned home young, not too young to remember what he was like before he entered. It was really ugly. When you're eight years old and your father is there and you know you have your whole life right with him. And he comes back three months later and he's not the same person. It's like you look at him every day, but he's a stranger. How is he different in terms of completely different? You know he was. Lost the sense of fun. You wouldn't do anything. It's not like he wasn't a great athlete but. Before he might throw a ball around them never happened again. Football Games going to a hockey game. Intermittently, we used to have season tickets for the Canadian soup. Used to take my sister one of my sisters, he had no no desire to go. But what's that like for kid to have lost somebody who still right in front of you? Oh. Shrink spent a lot of time on that. You know he said it's devastating. It's it's very, very difficult to to rationalize for a kid. He told me it's worse than than from a death. You father's gone you know what you would apt to it. But here your father's gone. But you can never adapt to. You can never really deal with it because every day you wake up, you'll look. Very is. In case, you were wondering all these drugs, the induced coma that shock treatments. None of it cured Charles Tanis problem, the nerve pain in his face. Twelve years later, he had another attack, and by that time, there was a drug called Tech Ruutel. Father. Integra tall a week later was gone. So, how could this have been allowed to happen and why? Part of that answer lies with the man who was running the Allen. One of the world's most well respected psychiatrists. was very impressive man. and. I was told it was the best doctor in North America I thought how could he possibly ever take me for patients? Who am I being this great man who's done all these marvelous things And boy I better work hard and do everything that he tells me to do and. You know I don't want to lose this opportunity to get well. was constantly on on the goal rushing about Haley's ticket always seemed to know what he was doing commanding in his personal appearance. In his manner. self-assured and extremely ambitious his ambition Sean through. Just about everything else. He was. An. Authoritarian. Ruthless. Hungry. Nervous. Tense Angry. Trading, nights. And he strode the halls like giant. And people would say, oh there but for God goes, God. Everybody in the hospital was very much all. Dot Cameron. On the next episode of brainwashed the Nuremberg Code Secrets CIA projects, and a doctor named you and Cameron. Would you describe the new treatment, Dr Cameron. This is essentially an attempt to modify and improve our methods of carrying out psychotherapy this type of recording playing the recording back to the patient over again sound something like the conditioning technique in the brave new world does it have any similarity at all to it or to Communist brainwashing for instance? No it. Doesn't. Brainwashed is written and produced by Lisa. Ellen would Chris and me Michelle Shepherd Sarah Melton is our associate producer sound design by Cecil Fernandez. Our digital producer is emily canal. The senior producer of CBC podcast is Tony Springer, and our executive producer is our if neuron. Special thanks to Alina Gauche Keith Hart with CBC. Radio Archives and the CBC Reference Library. For discussions, posts, videos and pictures find us on social media just search for CBC podcasts on facebook twitter and instagram. Our theme song is desert novel by key witness. Brainwashed produced by CBC PODCASTS and the Fifth Estate. This has been the first episode of brainwashed listen to episode two right now, and you can subscribe for free on the CBC listen APP or wherever you get your podcasts. For. More CBC original podcasts, Goto CBC dot. CA slash original podcasts.

Sir Hugh Allen Father Charles Alan CBC Montreal Charles Tanny Charles Tanis Allan Memorial Institute CIA McGill University coma hockey Fifth Estate CBC Alan Tany Chris Royal Victoria Hospital Football Dot Cameron
A Whole Future Past Cancer

Healthy Living with Lamia

28:36 min | 1 year ago

A Whole Future Past Cancer

"And healthy living with London powered by AMITAV talk. My name is Lemme ask using and I'm the owner founder Bay Nextel and if you're interested in living a healthy lifestyle whether you've been doing so for years or just began your journey today. This is the podcast for you. Each episode re tackle topic in the wall of help and we help you take the steps necessary of your best life and today's episode. We Talk Becky Finley at the age of thirty three or just completed the half marathon Ian half iron when fate stepped in with the diagnosis of breast cancer. Listen on as becky explains her. Health in positive outlook on life helps rematch a whole future. Pass Cancer Hi everyone everyone. My name is sexy Finley and I grew up in West Chester Ohio. I currently live with my husband. Jim and Kettering Ohio. That's just outside of Dayton Scientists at P. and G. and I've been there for quite some time. My family still currently lives in Westchester. So Becky can you tell awesome bit about we're going to talk today about your Battle through breast cancer. But also how your lifestyle it has really influenced you and kind of coming. I'm back from an incongruity and so Can Unit is a little bit about first of all before your diagnosis. What your activity activity level was how your health was in general before you got Agnes? Sure sure so in about two thousand five if I started to be introduced to endurance sports so things like marathon half marathon eventually into trap on to something longer occur than you know a five K.. I had always grown up running a couple of miles every day. My Dad and I did that growing up and I enjoyed running a lot but decided to up my game I did quite a few marathons Quite a few tariff on and I completed my first half Ironman Dan three weeks before I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It was actually I. I did a half ironman one weekend and a half marathon the next weekend and then two weeks later I was diagnosed with breast cancer so I was probably at the top of my health. I took my in health very seriously. I was a avid water drinker. Everyone would make fun of me. 'cause I drink too much water and you know I love my my fruit and vegetables as well so I took my whole pre seriously before I was diagnosed with breast cancer. So I mean and this is so key here because has softened rethink. This can never happen to me or it only happens through this kind of person and that's not just breast cancer but for all illnesses and so you were the it when we would think of the top of their game and as far as physical Health accomplished physically some wonderful huge Accomplishments air so when you were diagnosed. What was the process? How did you go from finishing these amazing feats beats to getting a diagnosis of breast cancer? Sure so for me I had had a lump lump in my breast for probably ten years and we had By doctors and I had gone through and kind of looked at it and did some some analysis of it and found that it was nothing. Okay so I've had a well for many many years at this point and It happened one year and I just I I noticed maybe a little different. I would not an avid felt. Check Person I'll be honest. I was not avid. Ah but I just happen to be doing one day and I was like you know what I'm GonNa say something to my doctor next time I'm in for my OBGYN appointment. And I. I said to her and she said okay well. I will give you a prescription for mammogram. Because I'm I'm too young to get a mammogram. I need technically a prescription to do do that at the time either one of us were very concerned or you know rush to do and I was in the middle of training or my half choir man and I. I didn't have a whole lot of time on my hand So I put it off and and sure enough I went in informant. Graham and the radiologist was was very concerned and as a scientist. I know that data can go either way so I I was challenging him quite a bit on and he said well you need a And I was like okay so and sure enough if I gotta buy out the a week or so later and it was definitive that with cancer so it was pretty I still waiting for them to call me that. The data it was mixed up. I didn't feel bad. I felt great. I didn't feel sick. It was it was. I was in complete denial. I that's that's the only complete now so it was. Yeah definitely the first sparked so at what point did it Kinda come to you that while I I actually have cancer. They kept calling me. The doctors kept calling me and I realized I had to do something about it. I needed to go. I need to get this figured out. What is the you know you know? What kind of cancer do I need do? I have what are are the steps to get cancer free. What are my auction and you know I as a scientist? Obviously I did a lot of my own research and you no. I'll be honest. There's a lot of remission out there and a lot of that is wrong too so I was very careful about where I looked for information. So so yeah I I it took me. It probably took me at least two weeks to grapple with and then take it completely seriously and go into kill cancer mode and so what at. What stage were you when you were diagnosis? I was staged to cancer and I had hormone positive Her two positive Type of cancer. which usually means chemo? Treatment is part of the treatment plant and we should also your clear. Your mom also went through breast cancer but it was a different type correct that ah that's correct. And they didn't think that they were linked given I was so young and she was more in the age that breast cancer does occur so they didn't really think that they were linked that way and I don't I don't carry the gene. Wasn't the gene that factored into the diagnosis. So even with that background of yours. That initial it's not happening to me was still there because you had been so healthy you were younger and you were told that you like you said you didn't carry that gene and and I'll be honest. I think it's hard for me as it was for the people around me because they knew how active healthy I was and I think it was a little bit of a shock for even just the community around me. You know. Cancer is kind of the silent thing. And it's not do you can have none of the factors and and unfortunately still get no I. My my sane wasn't was. I was taking one for the team here. I was helping everybody's. Yeah Yeah and and so I mean being so young and you felt gray felt felt physically great. I would imagine until you start going through all the treatments so it wasn't anything where you start to feel sick. I would assume until all you had to go through chemotherapy and all. Yeah so my My first course of treatment was was chemotherapy and chemotherapy. Therapy is is is kind of a beast and you know I I really wanted to keep my activity level up. I wanted to keep running in fact I. I have a group of friends that I've done. A lot of endurance. Events with in the past would schedule Wednesday night running with me. uh-huh and I as chemo started and progressed. And I probably only did about a month and a half of runny. I got to the point where it would take. Take me days to recover from you know. Just a simple three to four mile run. It would take me day. I've just I would feel awful and I realized you know I mean Pena will affect white blood cells as well as red blood cells and I was. I was pretty confident that I wasn't I wasn't getting oxygen and things needed to to do that activity so it was not easy but I decided you know I'm GonNa try to walk and and I walked every day and you know there were times where I was very very tired and I would sit. Somebody neighbor Driveway and they knew in my neighborhood knew and they just you know. Let me sit and let me rest for a little bit but that was my new normal. I had hey just my normal for the condition I was in and I couldn't do what I really wanted to. Walking was a good a good way for me to continue that activity. Obviously not on the level I had been but it made me feel better. I think it was. It was the best thing for me. So so how did why. Why was it so important for you that despite because we hear so often people come up with excuses of why can't be active? That are far less serious as yours. What was it about your mindset? That made you really want to maintain this level of activity even though you had to justice rested but why was it so important for you to keep an active lifestyle. Well I'll be honest. Let me I I it. It's it's not even a mindset. It's it's what I love to do I. I love to be active. That's my hobby. That's what I enjoy doing. And obviously you know being healthy as nightside effect of and So it's it's more that's just a part of my life. I you know just like you need to eat Exercise was just a part of my life and I I wanted to do so I was GonNa you know might not be exactly what I want is you. Maybe it can help me get to where I want to go so it was it was more. Just that's that's just like eating breathing For me is that was a very important. I wish is my habit. Yeah tall and your doctors were supportive and fine with you continuing with being active. Yeah Yeah in fact So shortly after Chemo I had I went into surgery. He had a bilateral mastectomy with reconstruction and that typically is a two surgeries. So you have one and then sometime later you have another surgery and I was working with my plastic surgeon and I decided guided. I was going to run the New York marathon in November so this is probably surgery my first surgery was may I told my plastic surgery surgeon. I said this is the time line and I told her when I need to start training and when you know and then we work backwards on when the surgery needed to make all of this works so they were all game. I was still actually getting Chemo treatment has I was training and in fact it got chemo treatments. Two days eight before I've marathon. So so what is it was a big My doctors were very very involved and I reminded the members time I was there about the time. Lie Why so. Why was it so important that even though you're going through this treatment but you're going to make a goal of running this race no I think it was just? It was important to make a goal and for me. You know. I've been very inspired by folks around me and and you know running. A full marathon is is is quite a feat in and of itself I actually I used it as a platform to share my journey and to help others. So you know I it. It was for me it helped me. Ah Get to get back to my fitness. You know get back to fitness but it was also a way for me to share my story and hopefully maybe helped somebody else out there there and inspire someone else out there. It is very inspirational And you were so young when you were diagnosed in having to goverry through everything and you share the article that you wrote with me. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that background of the article with everyone so they can understand what being diagnosed at such a young age. as a female how that can influence things. I was fund raising to to do the New York marathon at the time. I couldn't get into the marathon but I could do it as a fundraising event and I chose news team lead strong I think folks are familiar. That live strong is is cancer help group and one of the things that I realize going going through this is female. Women Fragility is greatly impacted by cancer treatments. And you know obviously it doesn't happen to everyone but it could and it is well known that that it. It can impact Tilleke of women so one of the things that I did was I did. Were with a group at the Bethesda North Hospital to actually say X. So I did a fertility treatment. Very quickly before my first chemo treatment basically create egg and then freeze them. Because there's there's a high likelihood that I may not be able to have children later in life because of Chemo And for me. I mean I'm still on anti-cancer cancer drugs and I will be for ten years and they're you know it's very critical that you don't get pregnant because these drugs can really not do good things to the baby enter you so you know now in forty one right and so it was. It was something that I didn't want to lose an auction. You know I'm I'm I'm with quite a bit younger right and I wasn't married at the time and I for me. It was like you know what I'm GonNa do this because this is possibly a future that I don't WanNa close the door on It's fertility and there's a lot of programs out there something called fertile hope I know actually Because refilling treatments are expensive. and not not everybody's health plans cover that and at the time you know eggs. Eggs and egg retrieval and freezing eggs was very still considered experimental so that makes it even more costly. So there's a lot of groups out there that help that it was not necessarily something my oncologist promoted but she allowed it. She was okay with it. It was something that I had done. Research Research on it and you know. oncologists are very focused on cancer and fighting cancer. Sometimes they get a little lost in like this is a whole human being. I think so. And there's a whole future you know past cancer so so for me that was more about preserving what the future might be as a female now in the future in having kids in the future. I love that statement that there's a whole future pass catching had some because the majority majority of us will eat their Know someone who has cancer or unfortunately suffer some form of cancer ourselves just statistically as it becomes the number number one killer in the United States so this is just I think so important that you cut the bigger picture and I think just from anybody they just from hearing how you speak your mind set was always of a positive overcoming mindset instead of allowing that cancer to get to. Oh you did you feel that way or were there some. It's were you just really wanted to give up well. I don't think I ever wanted to give up. I think got mad. I will get angry at some sometimes And a little sad. Because you know wasn't the life I had been living. You know this this time In my life with can be very different and I had to accept that they think that was that was probably a little bit harder part for me with accepting I had to do things differently and and figure out what that if I was in except for also then on the flip side start to think about what are the goals after and so so i. I'm not perfect. I'm sure my family could say I got a little upset. I still remember Christmas Day. Telling my mom was having a heart attack. And I was actually having having heartburn for the first time so I threw my family for a little loophole thing So even even though young yet and you've been so you you're so healthy you know and so then when all of a sudden your body starts to You know I don't want to say fail on you but you know things are going wrong you you don't. It's hard for you to react or know how to react in those situations. Yeah I would my mom. I still recall that in my mom just laughing when I'm explaining to her that I'm having a heart attack. So how long have you been cancer free. Then so I've been kids are free eight years now actually eight years this month. So that's amazing. Congratulations on that Thank you and tastic and do you ever worry that it could come back or is that like you feel like I've defeated I'm moving on. I actually don't I don't think about it so I guess I kind of thought that's in the past and I you know I really honestly I just don't think about it very often at all. I don't celebrate my anniversary anymore I decided every day I I will celebrate so I for me. I quit doing that a while back. I wasn't even sure what date I actually actually got diagnosed on so that was interesting. I seriously like I think your mindset like this is my my dad went through call cancer and it affected his mindset ally and so often it's reverse from how you and you just have such a positive outlook I think in general on life but I think that it has really helped your journey but also being generally healthy how do you feel like having an overall healthy lifestyle has affected your or helped your journey through cancer. I think it helped tremendously. I mean one of the habits I mentioned was drinking water so the doctor doctor told me when I started chemo. She said you know you really need to drink. Hundred Ounces of water and I said okay. I'm going to get done with one hundred ounces during chemo so when I go show up chemo treatment. I'M GONNA drink one hundred houses right there And then I would drink a lot more asking because because all you know when I was in the suite where they give chemo treatments about half of us. Were getting chemo tree. The other half were getting stealing because they were dehydrated. So you know chemo is is very dehydrating. You know which then causes a lot of other problems so I I was very very thankful for just the habit of drinking a lot of water Unfortunately the one of the side effects of Chemo is water. Taste metallic Alec Very Metallic so I actually started to put lemon juice a little lemon juice in it then. I was a little worried about teeth but I was like okay. One thing for the other right so But then you know just trying to like I said just trying to stay active. You know the food part was was. It's tough I I. I struggled to eat anything that was tomato base. That would be very painful in my mouth. You know baked potatoes where the best I think. I lived a lot on baked potato really. Yeah it because it just felt so good. Your mouth has a lot of stores. At least with the Chemo I had ad that was one of my side effects. And you know for some reason baked potatoes just were were the only thing that actually wasn't a negative when I need it but I can still eat. You know vegetables and fruit which I really enjoyed. I probably didn't eat as much protein as I should have. It didn't taste very well and it was you know so that was a little bit of a challenge was just to have a good diet. You know the are at least the Diet that I had before you know. It wasn't like I was eating lots of chocolate and bad stuff that that didn't he's well either But the the Diet part I was I was I struggled with because it was was more about. Okay I need I need something to sustain I I gotta eat something so But I changed that as soon as actually as soon as chemo was over in probably about three or four weeks I could start introduce back back some of the foods that I enjoyed. And you know protein and tomato based things so so I my body rebounded pretty quickly and repaired haired itself so that I can eat free well within a few weeks after it and probably due to your age and also your how healthy you are overall raw. Oh yeah definitely. It's interesting when I go the colleges now so she. She does thin so I go on colleges twice a year. She does her exams and the only thing we talk about is my upcoming races. So it's just a fun It's actually a fun you know. I don't mind minded and it's we we just chat like you know we're friends and she just wants to know what racism doing. She'll give me other suggestions on racism So so it's kind of fun. Yeah and do you now do your own self checks at home as well. Well I do but I actually have to go to the doctor quite often so I see the plastic surgeon too so I'm still a walking petri dish I feel feel like yeah and probably will be for for good while so the last the thing I want to end on is again. You've just you're very very positive outlook on life and I think it can be You know in in an area area and with a disease that can be so dark for a lot of people and so I think that you know what would you say for those. That either are suffering have suffered I have loved ones on that are going through similar situations through any kind of cancer. Really what would be your advice for them Wow Okay so I think one thing that I would say is giving yourself you know especially especially for folks that are diagnosed. Give yourself the space to deal with it right. Go go through the problem but then find an end to that process right okay. You go through denial and anger and sadness but but find an end when he finally end start to make some goals right and and make some goals thinking about the cancer. Free Time right in your future time. You know one of the things I I listened to my doctors immensely mentally you know asking them. What else can I do to go through this process healthier quicker not get sick? What are what? What are all these things that I can do? Like you know avoiding folks. You know I didn't go out to to Restaurant is often going through chemo. Chemo and just to to stay healthy and not get sick and and really just stay active it. It's an awful disease and having having been told you have. Cancer is is unlike anything else in the world greatly. I duNNO I. It's really I feel like nobody could say anything else to meet. It really bothered me point So I I think you know and and having a having a positive outlook and surrounding yourself surround people. That are supportive that help you and you know help help you to stay healthy as healthy as possible possible so I think when you have your circle of people is is also have healthy habits. It only rubs off on you as well so now. I think that's all really very good advice your realistic ice as well. So that's really key as well Thank thank you so much for sharing journey with us and being so open to everything. Sure no problem. I'm happy to share and If if anyone has you know they're they're welcome to reach out personally to me if if people have questions or concerns or you. Yeah seriously you are a great A very positive source for this because like I said it it can be such a dark a difficult time for individuals and in general. Your the goals that you set for yourself or anybody whether or not. They're going through cancer. I think Anka's very inspiring thank you. Thank you very much for everything. Thank you so much. Becky sharing her courageous in very honest story on how she has overcome breast cancer while October may have been a breast cancer awareness month. It is always a good time to assess your risk of developing the disease more information formation please visit www dot breast cancer dot org to learn how you can perform an at home breast cancer. Hasn't which initially led to seek the help help professionals. In next time I hope you continue taking the small steps that are needed to make some changes here. Oh Man

cancer chemo breast cancer Becky Finley New York scientist Can Unit Westchester Dayton Agnes Ohio Jim Dan Lem West Chester Ohio Bethesda North Hospital Bay Nextel founder
Democracy Now! 2020-03-26 Thursday

Democracy Now! Audio

59:02 min | 1 year ago

Democracy Now! 2020-03-26 Thursday

"From New York City the epicenter of the Corona virus epidemic. This is democracy now. This point we are cases in New York City constitute about fifty four percent fifty four percent of the total in the state of New York about thirty two percent almost a third of the cases in the United States of America as New York hospitals see a surge in corona virus cases medical workers report growing shortages of protective gear. A nurse who tested positive after treating patients with a highly contagious disease has died. We'll get an update from New York. Emergency Room Doctor Craig. Spencer who's also a survivor of Ebola which he contracted while fighting. It's outbreak in Africa. Then senator presidential candidate Bernie Sanders successfully fought to strengthen assistance to laid off workers and the two trillion dollar emergency relief. Bill passed by the Senate even as he warned about the bills. Corporate Bailout Fund. Very very very concern about a five hundred billion dollars that will go out. Couva corporate world without the underlying without the accountability and transparency that is needed and as the corona virus pandemic continues to spread around the world. We'll look at India which is now under the largest locked down in human history with one point three billion people order to shelter in place. We'll speak with a top Bush author of the great derangement climate change and the unthinkable all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot or the warrant piece report. I Make Goodman the United States Senate has voted unanimously. To approve a record shattering two point two trillion dollar emergency relief package to battle the unprecedented economic shock of the Corona virus pandemic the House of Representatives. Set to vote on the bill. Friday and president trump has promised to sign it as soon as it reaches his desk. The bailout package would massively expand unemployment benefits providing laid off workers up to a hundred percent of their salary and health insurance benefits for four months. Freelancers and GIG economy workers would be eligible for unemployment benefits for the first time ever over. Three hundred billion dollars would go toward direct cash payments to most Americans with one time checks of twelve hundred dollars for adults and five hundred dollars per child states and municipalities would receive one hundred fifty billion dollars in direct aid. Companies would receive two hundred twenty one billion dollars in tax benefits. Hundred Seventeen billion dollars would fund hospitals and the veterans health care and a half trillion dollar fund would provide loans and loan guarantees for Corporations Vermont. Senator presidential candidate Bernie Sanders who successfully fought to strengthen the bills. Assistance to laid off. Workers voted. Yes even as. He warned about the bills corporate bailout. We do not need at this moment in history to provide in a massive amount of corporate welfare to lodge profitable corporations. I think as many of you are aware you have industry like the industries like the airlines industry among others that have provided for stock buybacks billions and billions of dollars. Select by bucks. They spent all their cash rewarding themselves and their stockholders and Lo and behold today they need a major bell out the vote on Wednesday evening with ninety six zero with four senators absent just minutes before the roll call Republican senator. John Thune announced he was feeling. Ill would return to his home in South Dakota to self quarantine. Three other senators were also absent due to the corona virus Rand Paul of Kentucky. Who tested positive. Utah Senator Mike Lee and Mitt Romney who are in self quarantine here in New York City. The epicenter of the Corona virus outbreak in the United States hospitals are seeing the same surge in cases that overwhelmed healthcare systems in China Italy and Spain refrigerated trucks and tents have been stationed outside some hospitals to hold the bodies of the dead as morgues fill up in just twenty four hours on Tuesday. Thirteen people reportedly died at Elmhurst. Hospital Center in Queens. New York City is reporting three hundred sixty six deaths and over thirty. Three thousand confirmed cases though. The number of cases of infection is likely far far higher due to a critical lack of tests. More than four thousand corona virus patients have been hospitalized in New York where leaked fema briefing shows. All eighteen hundred intensive care beds in the city are expected to be full by Friday. We'll have more on the health care crisis here in New York City after headlines when we speak to Doctor Craig Spencer Director of Global Health and Emergency Medicine at Columbia University Medical Center. Who himself suffered from Ebola when he treated people in Africa across the United States. New Corona virus infections continued to increase exponentially with thirteen thousand newly confirmed cases reported Wednesday pushing the nationwide total above sixty eight thousand over. A thousand people have died in the United States. Louisiana with one of the fastest infection rates in the world markets largest one day increase bringing its toll to sixty five dead and nearly two thousand infected in neighboring Mississippi Republican Governor Tate. Reeves defied calls for an emergency. Stay at home order. Declaring Mississippi is never going to be China. The Washington Post reports one hundred forty. Us nursing homes of recorded at least one corona virus case. The Pentagon's ordered a sixty day freeze on troop movements overseas with at least four Hundred Fifteen. Pentagon employees testing positive for corona virus attorney. General William Bar has directed federal prosecutors to charge anyone deliberately spreading or threatening to spread corona virus with terrorism. Meanwhile Amazon says it'll keep its massive fulfillment centers open amidst a surge of online orders after workers in least eight Amazon warehouses around the United States tested positive for Cova nineteen in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Hundreds of sanitation workers held a wildcat strike Wednesday demanding more protection from the virus. This is one of the Workers Sheldon White. We want better equipment attack the beer we have. No we want to has has a rate is very important because we have co payments for any type of bill. We risk our life every time we have a garbage bag. The deliver Tony Award winning playwright terrence. Mcnally has died in Florida of complications from cove. In Nineteen McNally's career spanned six decades included celebrated productions like kiss of the spider woman love valor compassion terrence. Mcnally openly. Gay writer whose plays tackled issues of love Homophobia and the HIV AIDS crisis. He was eighty one years. Old celebrated chef floyd cargoes has died from a corona virus infection. Car Does was the first chef born and raised in India to head a major dining kitchen in New York City Taba in the Dominican Republic acclaimed fashion designer Gianni Polanco has died from complications of covert nineteen. Polanco's career spanned four decades. She was a regular fixture at Miami Fashion Week in Geneva Switzerland. The Director General of the World Health Organization urged world leaders to take strong actions to end the scourge of Corona virus sweeping the globe as global confirmed cases approach. Half a billion half million. We have overcome many bundle mix and crisis before we will overcome this one to that question is how large a price we will pay already. We have lost more than sixteen thousand lives. We know we will lose more. How many more will be determined by the decisions we make and the actions we take now in Italy. The nation currently hardest hit by the pandemic. The death toll has top seventy five hundred but for the fourth straight day. The pace of new corona virus cases fell raising hopes. That a nationwide lockdown is beginning to flatten curve of infections. Spain announced seven hundred thirty eight Corona virus new debts Wednesday surpassing China's death toll with over thirty six hundred fatalities in China. Authorities have lifted restrictions on millions of residents of WHO Bay province the original of the pandemic although the provincial capital? Wuhan remains on lockdown Chinese officials say new cases of coveted nineteen of all but stopped and who bay but some observers question that assessment and fear of potential second wave of cases in cities across India. Police are using violence to crack down on curfew. Violators beating and whipping anyone. Flouting a nationwide lockdown for one point three billion people viral video showed Indian police force groups of men to do squats and push ups as punishment. India's bus and train services have been cancelled creating crisis for thousands of migrant workers trapped in big cities. There were widespread reports of hoarding raising fears of shortage of food medicine and supplies. We'll have more in India's krona virus crisis later in the broadcast in Kosovo lawmakers ousted Prime Minister Albuquerque in a no confidence vote Wednesday over his refusal to declare a state of emergency in Chile. With over a thousand confirmed cases. Large parts of the capital Santiago will go into lockdown to slow the spread of the virus earlier this month fears over. The pandemic ended five months of large scale protests demanding the resignation of president. Sebastian Panetta in Stockholm Sweden. Seventeen year old. Climate activist left attuned. But he said she is very likely has cova one thousand nine hundred and sense recovered tune buddy said. She experienced a very mild illness while her father's Monte experienced much more intense symptoms in New Zealand. Prime Minister just send to earn asked her nations five million residents to behave as though they were contagious as a sweeping nationwide remain at home policy came into effect Thursday night. If you have any questions about what you can or can't do NGO looking for answers. Apply a simple principle act like you have covered. Nineteen every move. You make could be a risk to someone else. Arden's play came on the same day. The white supremacist terrorist who massacred Muslim worshippers and to New Zealand. Mosques last March pleaded guilty to the murder of fifty. One people has sentencing trial be delayed until New Zealand's couvert nineteen epidemic is under control and family members of the victims have a chance to attend Senator Bernie. Sanders has challenged former vice president. Joe Biden to a twelfth and final debate. Next month signalling he'll continue to compete for the Democratic. Party's presidential nomination. The Democratic National Committee has yet to schedule a date or broadcast partner for an April debate and on Wednesday Biden dismissed. The idea by focuses just tune with this crisis right now. I haven't thought about any more debates. I think we've had enough debates. I think we should get on with this. Meanwhile the intercept is reporting that. The Time's up legal defense fund. Set Up to help survivors of rape and sexual assault refused to fund to meet to investigation into an allegation against Joe Biden. The charges were brought by Tara. Reid who worked as a staff assistant for then Senator Biden in one thousand nine hundred ninety three when she was in her mid twenties retold journalist Katie Helper in an interview published Tuesday. That Biden repeatedly touched her without her consent and sexually assaulted her warning to listeners and viewers her account is graphic and then his hands on me and underneath my clothes and yeah and he went he went down my skirt up inside it and he treated me with those seniors read approach. The Time's up legal defense fund in January looking for assistance but was reportedly told. The Fun could not help her because Biden as a candidate for federal office and pursuing a case could jeopardize the funds nonprofit status the intercept reports the public relations firm representing time's up Legal Defense Fund is S. K. D. Knickerbocker. Who's managing director? Anita Dunn is top advisor to Biden's presidential campaign at the White House President. Donald trump Wednesday repeated his call for the United States to reopen for business on April Twelfth Easter Sunday. Around the time. The Corona virus crisis is expected to peak in New York City. Trump's call for pack churches across the US and mid April came as Pope Francis ordered bishops around the world to instruct Catholics to celebrate Easter in their homes. Trump's plan also defies the entire medical establishment. Which is pleading with Americans to remain at home to prevent new Cova nineteen patients from overwhelming healthcare system. Researchers at the Imperial College of London estimate without measures like lockdowns and social distancing. Two point two million people in the United States will die of Kovic. Nineteen and in a major victory for environmentalists and indigenous water protectors. A federal judge ruled Wednesday the US Army Corps of Engineers violated the National Environmental Policy. Act when it permitted construction of the Dakota access pipeline. The court ruled the core failed to resolve concerns by the Standing Rock Sioux about the potential impacts of oil spills and ordered the trump administration to prepare a full environmental impact statement on the Pipeline Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Chair Mike. Faith celebrated the ruling writing. It's humbling to see how actions we took four years ago to defend our ancestors homeland continue to inspire national conversations about how our choices ultimately affect this planet. Perhaps in the wake of this court ruling the federal government will begin to catch on to he said and those are some of the headlines says democracy now democracy now dot Org the Warren Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting from New York City. The epicenter of the Corona virus pandemic in the United States and my dear co-host ner means Shea is joining us from self isolation in New York. City nermeen. We are so close and yet so far. Thank you so much amy. We are indeed living in an extraordinary moment in the city. I'd like to welcome our listeners and viewers both here and the country as well as around the world. Many of whom are in the same position as I am namely in self isolation or quarantine or as as we just mentioned in India a country of one point. Three billion people under curfew. And you know even as we're reporting now on how difficult. The situation is in new. York City hospitals the health system being completely overwhelmed by the number of cases. It's difficult not to think of places around the world in Africa in Asia which have been referred to as a ticking time bomb that covert one thousand nine may strike there and where healthcare systems are so much weaker what. The effects of this lethal pandemic might be amy. That's right and we're going to talk about India later in the broadcast. The largest lockdown on people ever in the world And we're going to talk about issues like climate change and how it relates to the pandemic. But we're going to begin right here in New York City. The epicenter of the Corona virus outbreak in the United States hospital seeing the same surgeon corona virus cases that overwhelmed healthcare systems in China. Italy and Spain refrigerated trucks and tents have been stationed outside of some hospitals to hold. The bodies of the dead is more Philip in twenty four hours on Tuesday. Thirteen people reportedly died at Elmhurst Hospital Center. A five hundred forty five bed public hospital in the borough of Queens. The New York Times reports quote in several hours on Tuesday. Dr Ashley Bray Performed Chest Compressions at Elmhurst Hospital Center on a woman in her eighties. A man in his sixties and a thirty eight year old who reminded the doctor of her fiance all had tested positive for the corona virus and had gone into cardiac arrest. All eventually died. Dr Break hold the situation. Apocalyptic New York City is reporting three hundred sixty six deaths and more than thirty three thousand confirmed cases almost half of all the cases in the United States. The number is expected to be so much higher. Due to the lack of tests more than four thousand corona virus patients have been hospitalized in New York City a leaked fema briefing shows all the more than eighteen. Hundred intensive care beds in the city are expected to be full by Friday and the state has called for tens of thousands more ventilators hospital beds and intensive care beds. This comes as workers at New York City hospitals report shortages of personal protective equipment as they work amidst patients with the highly contagious disease. Workers for the massive Mount Sinai health system shared photos online of themselves wearing trash bags for protection and New York City nurse who was treating corona virus patients has died after testing positive about two weeks ago. Mount Sinai West Nursing Manager Kiosks Jordan. Kelly was in her forties and his co workers described him as a compassionate devoted to his patients for more. We're joined by Doctor Craig Spencer. He's director of global health and Emergency Medicine at Columbia University Medical Center. Dr Spencer Contracted Ebola while fighting. It's outbreak in Africa and survive the disease. He's now an emergency room doctor in New York City where he's treating corona virus patients. He's also on the board of Doctors Without Borders and again with our co host nermeen shape. We welcome you both to democracy. Now Doctor Craig Spencer describe a day in the New York City hospitals. We just laid out this graphic picture of shortage and the question is how a necessary was this. The idea that in this country the richest in the world doctors people like you and nurses and the staff of the hospitals going to those who even clean. The hospitals do not have access to the necessary protection to treat the patients that are surging into these hospitals. Thanks for having me on and let me share this story. Look it's it's pretty dire inside New York City hospitals right now and we're all concerned about how that's going to spread throughout the rest of the country a more frankly the rest of the world. It's no surprise that the greatest number of cases are being reported in places with the strongest or the the the best healthcare systems We know that cases are spreading all over the world. Were just picking them up more here. And we're seeing a lot more of the complications inside of our emergency departments as been reported. We have a growing number of patients coming in everyday with corona virus. We have people young and old with complications without complications who who get put on mechanical ventilators. Who put on life support to help their breathing. Who HAVE CARDIAC ARREST? It's it's a daily reality for many of my colleagues in the frontline especially here in New York City near mean. I'd like to ask you Dr Spencer. I mean one of the things is aiming mentioned. That's very striking is that the. Us Is of course extremely wealthy. The wealthiest country in the world but it also has according to the Global Health Security Index in two thousand nine hundred nineteen the US was the highest ranked country in terms of a pandemic preparedness The US was the best prepared. So if American hospitals are being overwhelmed in this way what about all of the other countries that don't have the resources that the that the US does it. I think if you ask anyone over the past couple of years whether anyone that does this reliving whether or not the US was prepared for a pandemic we all would have said no. I think all of us have written articles in the past couple of years lamenting the fact that the US has torn apart the preparedness Architecture here in the US by underfunding the CDC by underfunding state and local departments of health. It's not surprising to anyone. That's the that's been looking at this. Been worrying about this over the past couple of years that damages is reaching such havoc here in the US. We've also drastically underfunded the World Health Organization. Despite the lessons we learned in West Africa in twenty fourteen to twenty sixteen but said the crisis there. We learned that having preparedness was much more important than a reactive response. We learned that putting the right among the funding the organizations who are capable of picking up these these disease threats responding to them all over. The world is the only way to protect people everywhere. It is so much cheaper. It is so much cheaper to invest in preparedness than it is to scramble for Response Putting. We're putting together trillions of dollars due to try and respond to this just here in the United States and that amount of money would have provided for global preparedness for over a decade. And so we need to really think about our priorities and I hope when we come up on the other side of this we think about what are the smart investment is smart investment is not just trying to build a wall around this country and with the hope that we're going to keep microbes and bacteria out the reality of our world right now. Is that wherever disease starts in? It's more likely to be in China than it is to be in Columbia Missouri. It can be with anywhere in the world within twenty four to forty eight hours and we are all at risk unless we have strong health systems in the places where the most vulnerable patients are up to spend some. Can you explain for for people who don't know the people think meaning the US most healthcare is privatized? So why is it that? In private hospitals there is not sufficient. There isn't sufficient personal protective equipment because not funding the CDC or cutting funding to the CDC etc shouldn't impact the decisions that private hospitals make about the equipment. The equipment the beds etcetera that they acquire attorney because we talk about these ninety five mask censor those thicker variance that filter particles like they're corona virus and generally were fit tested in the hospital every year the requirement to make sure that they fit right that nothing can get through we almost never use them because in the US. We don't have relatively many bricusse patients. We don't happen lot of people where we have to use this type of protection. That's not the reality in many of the places that I work west Africa East Africa sausage etc They're just more used a lot of the communicable diseases that we have stopped seeing as much the United States. The result is at a lot of my colleagues have. Don't have the same Manav experience of working with the personal protective equipment that we need right now. I see a lot of people. Who Are you. Know touching the masks or putting on or taking it incorrectly personal protective equipment. Like loves and masks. Do not protect you if they're used incorrectly. One of the greatest risks. When you're using on this taking them off on touching your face touching the mask and infecting yourself. So it's not surprising that we don't have a huge supply of these things. We didn't prepare for this scenario and I think this is the most important message so many people knew that this was coming so many people knew that this was coming. You can look back and you can see headlines from three months ago. Three years ago everything that we learned in West Africa seemed to have been torn apart decisions route seemingly undermine our willingness in our ability to respond to pandemics not only here in the United States but throughout the world. Dr Spencer if you would take us on your personal journey. What happened to you when you were dealing with? Bola in Africa about contracting it and then the lessons we can learn and I want to particularly go to the issue of Agreed Gis lack of tests and how that is a major public health care measure just for people to understand the lack of tests how The lag and getting them and then even now the amount of time it takes for people can be four five ten days to find out in fact even if they get the test in New York very difficult and what that means in terms of contagion but start with yourself contracting Ebola so I worked in west Africa in Guinea in two thousand fourteen was in Deca. Do another epicenter of the no break on providing direct clinical care on a daily basis in full personal protective equipment with doctors. Without Borders and I followed rigorous protocols every single day on my organization had been doing this for decades and it really done a great job in minimizing the risk to the providers and increasing the quality of care we provide to our patients that being said personal. Protective equipment is not flawless. It's not perfect even if you perfectly at one point I was infected when I came back to the US was thankfully. Treated here in receives. Incredible Quality Karen was lucky enough to survive largely because I was treated in a really great health system was also really young and didn't have any of the medical issues that the whole time. The only thing I can think about where my colleagues and my friends back in west Africa that didn't have access to the same quality of care or thing I say is in West Africa. I took care about thirty patients myself at any time in here in the. Us probably had thirty providers on call to take care of me at any time Some of the stunning similarities and differences between West Africa. Corona virus is both fire. Since the corona virus seems to attract more people in kill a relatively smaller percent versus a bola but the difference in terms of the fight. Was that in West Africa. I at least never really had to worry about my personal protective equipment. A lot of my colleagues here in New York City are worried. About the number of end ninety five respirators we have how limited our supply chain is in it stat here with CIGNA look like in the rest of the country when you bring up another really important point that we haven't talked about. I think enough and that is issue of casting right now. We're talking about only testing certain people so only testing some health care. Workers only testing people that are hospitalized. It's not because that's the best thing to do because that's really the only thing we can do right now. Testing capacity has increased dramatically in the past couple of weeks. But we are months delay. We should have had a testing strategy like South Korea. We need to understand where this diseases is passing. Where transmitting in the only way to do that is to test test test and test. We haven't been doing that. We've all been limited in our hospitals and in our communities. People are walking around now now not knowing whether or not they've had thrown virus whether they may have some type of immunity whether they could be out in our communities helping other people if they have antibodies by delivering groceries to the elderly or helping in other institutions so our testing strategy. Right now is such because we failed to be prepared. There were critical missteps in testing capacity in the testing kits. That were sent out. There were a lot of promises about our ability to do billions of millions of beautiful task for anyone that wanted one. That was never the reality on the front line. That's completely changed in the past couple of weeks. So doctor Craig Spencer. If you could talk about the use of it as a public health measure that you understand and now as a result everyone must treat themselves as if they are contagious as if they're infected to protect others in the community and yet you have president trump if you can respond to what he is saying that Easter right in just a few weeks. He wants to see pack churches while the Pope at the Vatican is telling people to wash their hands but not washed. The feet of The worshipers while he is saying pray at home of course he's in Italy which is so hard hit and many are deeply concerned that the US could go that route What would stop us from going that route and talk about the danger of President? Trump's message yeah. I think in a week we will be Italy. I'm at least here in New York City. We're already seeing that. I'm missing something. I've been warning about for weeks. Something Italy has been warning us about for weeks. Dreams of wet can stop this. I don't want to incite panic when incites in kind of preparation? Because we still have. Aol is huge country. Outside of New York City in the other episodes right now that will be impacted by this virus in the coming weeks in the coming months. Look to respond to that. Let me just say that. The first case of grown virus funds diagnosed here in New York City in early March so just over three weeks ago. Easter is just a couple of weeks away. Two three weeks away. The idea that we can have this dramatic spike in cases which is still going up by the way and that we're somehow going to level off and be at a place where by Easter. We're going to have people back together again. Is is dangerous and magical thinking it defines all of the modeling that we've seen it defies any of the reality. Any of my colleagues are seeing in the emergency department and quite frankly going into work and synchronize patients and seeing them crash into compensating. Get really sick pretty quickly scary. But this idea of millions and millions of my fellow Americans all being in church or being in concert halls being together in just a couple of weeks gives me such pause knowing that this is the only way the virus can can in fact you cannot infect you if cannot meet you and by bringing people back together. This is the greatest possible risk we have to continuing in worsening this pandemic fueling the flame across the United States. The most important message. Everyone needs to know right. Now is the only way that you could be silenced by staying home the virus cannot infect you if it does not meet you. The streets may look empty. I know but I assure you what's happening within the walls of the emergency departments here in New York City and maybe next weekend in Newark in a week after that in New Mexico it is anything but the the the quietness and Nicole Museum. The peace city streets. Finally Doctor Craig. Spencer what keeps you going. I mean you your colleagues. All of the health staff of all of the hospitals in this country and around the world are so incredibly brave. You are the hardest hit. What gets you to that hospital every day. I think it's a we do with our moral obligation. The Abbey WanNa deal with the right equipment. Yeah we WANNA do it with the right tools. I think all of us have the sense of personal drive to be able to provide care. This is what I feel. This is what all of my colleagues have felt. Also the national south I worked with in Guinea in twenty fourteen in twenty fifteen. I remember just being so moved by their willingness and ability to come to work every single day despite their communities being destroyed by a virus. And I've learned so much from them so much prepared me for this outbreaks which I've tried to share with my colleagues now and I think we really need to be thinking about the fact that yes the. Us is really hard hit. It's going to get worse in the next couple of weeks but let us not forget that. There's a world outside of these borders. I have worked in a lot of places where not just a critical care. Doctors are in short supply but there may be no critical care. Beds there may be no ventilators. There may be no icy user ability to provide the higher quality. Care that we're talking about right here in the United States so it's just a good reminder that the media is focused so much on what's happening in New York City but I assure you that this is an issue will be greater issue everywhere else in the world and just make sure we keep everybody else in in in our thoughts doctor Craig Spencer. I WanNa thank you so much for being with us. Director of global health and Emergency Medicine at Columbia University Medical Center. Speaking to us from his home where he also Remarkable in his work with doctors with out borders and many other groups as he spends his time Having been in Africa now in New York City when we come back we'll hear the words of senator and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders on the record shattering. Two point two trillion dollar emergency relief. Bill passed by the Senate last night. Stay with us. The on this claim Gordon Wanted Sean. must be a say everyone entity. We'll break it down. Three Corona virus alert by Ugandan popstar bobby wine and Nubian Lee. This is democracy now. Democracy now dot org the warrant piece report in a historic vote just before midnight. The Senate unanimously approved. A record shattering two point two trillion dollar emergency relief bill to battle the unprecedented economic shock of the corona virus pandemic. The House is set to vote on the bill on Friday. President trump promises to sign it immediately in livestream legislative update Wednesday night. Vermont Senator Presidential Candidate Bernie Sanders. Spoke about who the bill will help. This package provides the largest expansion of unemployment benefits in American his three an increase over two hundred and fifty billion dollars under this bill average Americans who have been furloughed. We'll be able to receive up to one hundred percent of their salary and their health insurance for four months for four months. Weekly unemployment benefits will increase by six hundred dollars. So if you will laid off your unemployment benefit will increase by six hundred dollars above what it otherwise would have been and right now. The average of benefit is about three hundred and sixty four dollars for a workers. Now also very importantly this expansion of unemployment will include part time. Workers will include GIG workers like those who drive Uber Clause. It will include. Tipped workers and the self-employed who would otherwise not be covered by unemployment insurance so in other words. What we're doing now is at a time. When fewer than half of the American people would normally be covered by unemployment? What this legislation does it is. Expansive to the overall workforce by on top of that for many workers would provide six hundred dollars a week more than they otherwise would have gotten and that is one of the more important provision in the bill. In addition this bill provides two hundred and fifty billion dollars to go out in one time checks of twelve hundred dollars for adults and five hundred dollars for the kids. I'll let me be very honest. Some of you may know I wanted much more. I wanted every American family to be able to receive two thousand dollars every single month that we continue to exist within the crisis so this does not do that and this is clearly not enough to me but that is what it is that's Vermont senator. Bernie Sanders speaking Wednesday night about the unprecedented two point two trillion dollar emergency relief bill. The legislation would also provide one hundred fifty billion dollars in direct aid to states municipalities. More than two hundred twenty billion dollars in tax benefits to companies almost one hundred twenty billion in aid to hospitals and for veterans healthcare and a half a trillion dollar fund to provide loans and loan guarantees for corporations Senator Sanders and other progressive. Critics are sounding the alarm over the corporate bailout portion of the bill and it's limited oversight measures. I am very very very concerned about a five hundred billion dollars that will go out to the corporate world without. Let me underline without the accountability and transparency. That is needed We do not need at this moment in history to provide in a massive amount of corporate welfare to lodge profitable corporations. I think is many of you are aware you have industry like the industries like the airlines industries among others that have provided for stock buybacks billions of billions of dollars by bucks expend all their cash. Rewarding them cells and their stockholders and low behold today they need a major bail out so the concern here is a Louis Trust. The trump administration to effectively decide which company will get the loans or the grants. The answer is no I do not do. We think that these loans and grants during a political season will be used to benefit the president's election prospects. Absolutely I do. That's presidential candidate for months. Senator Bernie Sanders speaking Wednesday night in Washington. Dc In this breaking news. Us unemployment claims SORTA three point three million claims last week. Quadrupling the record from one thousand nine hundred eighty two when we come back we turn to India which is now under the largest locked down in human history. Stay with us our pony too key yard to keep come with mine because my he's gone running down the truck I pol. He's gone running down the track my palm. He's got me your rose. Two key company with Mine Larousse to keep coffee with mine has roosters gone crowing for the day. I read through Skeleton Roosters Gone Crow and for the New York key. Become mine across and he come that was Sophia Blom Gesture Eggleston from Providence Rhode Island singing their rendition of Tinny by Ronnie Arvo in daisy mayhem which they dedicated to their nephew and grandchildren who they haven't seen because of self isolation in the midst of this pandemic this is democracy now democracy now dot org. I'm Amy Goodman in the studio with Nermeen Shaef self-isolation in New York City. We're turning to India now. Where Prime Minister Narendra? Modi ordered the largest lockdown in human history. Starting Wednesday telling the country's one point three billion people to shelter in place with six hundred ninety three confirm corona virus cases and thirteen dead. India's three week lockdown is an attempt to stave off the skyrocketing death death tolls and overwhelmed health systems already seen in China Italy Spain now the United States but as the country's economy daily life comes to an abrupt halt hundreds of millions of Indians. Who Live hand to mouth have been left without the means to support their families. More than eighty percent of India's workforce's informal with most living off daily wages often less than two or three dollars a day wages. They cannot earn under the present curfew. Some states including Utah Pradesh and Carola have announced economic relief packages for workers and the poor and Modi's government is expected to do the same in the coming days but critics say Modi's response to the corona virus crisis has left India's poor to fend for themselves with migrant workers left stranded now closed train and bus stations with no way to get home and millions wondering how their survive weeks and potentially months without work. Meanwhile India's testing lags far behind other nations leading to fears the actual number of cove in nineteen infections is far far higher than reported as of Tuesday India had conducted only fifteen thousand tests. Fifteen thousand a nation of one point three billion well for more. We're joined by the award. Winning Indian writer Amitav Gauche joining us from his home in Brooklyn New York where he is sheltering in place his books include Gun Island in the Great Derangement. Climate change and the unthinkable. Thanks so much for being with us. let's start with what's happening in. India. Let's talk about this largest lockdown in human history. What do you understand is going on tough well? It seems to be a very chaotic situation. Know let me say first of all that one of the things about this lockdown that it should've happened a lot earlier. I mean I've been such isolating here clean for almost three weeks now and I talk to my friends and my family every day back in India and really for three weeks they were just not taking the seriously at all and those signals have come from the government for example Floyd Cardoza untold. You know he was a friend of mine. I'm really devastated to hear about his passing but until he had a huge party in Bombay you know earlier this month and if they had shut down these sort of big gatherings and so on two three weeks ago it would have sorta enormous purpose. But they didn't and so. This lockdown has come as a huge surprise my family a back in Calcutta. They're completely panicked because They didn't have time to go out and buy food or anything so and under stalking about my family. As for you know the eighty percent of India's employment is a in the informal sector and those people are just completely devastated. You showed a picture of people being beaten by the res. A lot of informal workers are out on the streets. They live on the streets. Anyway they have no way to get back to their homes. Which are maybe hundreds of miles away? They're just stuck on the street. Yesterday I saw a horrifying video of a young boy being beaten by the police and he was just out on the street for you know because there was no way he had nowhere to go. You see these pictures of workers carrying the children on their heads trying to walk back hundreds of miles to their to their families. It's so it's just a shocking situation. And he goes. What do you expect will happen? Now what are you learning from your family because at the moment this lockdown is supposed to last for three weeks. What are you hearing though about how long it's likely to continue beyond that? And also what provision the Modi Government has put in place if any for people under a curfew to get access to even basic goods food drinking at such well. The government has announced surfer relief measures and varies from state to state in India. So Kayla has actually been very proactive. And they've acted very early amongst the Indian states. How effective these measures will be. I just don't know even delivery. Workers are being beaten by. The Police. Just makes absolutely no sense. The journalists trying to get to work being beaten by the police. Healthcare workers have been beaten so as far as I can see. It's kind of strange situation of chaos and panic building upon each other so you know middle class families like mine are able to stock by a certain amount of food at home but you think the people who are stuck in tiny shanties who have really not the ability to even stop violating food and the weather studying hotter and hotter. They're stuck inside gets just start. You know it's just going to be appalling for them and let me save a straightaway that you know that are reported numbers. We just cannot trust at all. We know now that I really. The numbers reported are a function of the testing. And as you said earlier very few Indians of tested what it's like fifteen thousand in a huge country so I mean again another statistic that is not at all trust is the number of people who are dying because very large number of deaths in India are not actually reported or they're not certified by doctors so we really had no idea at all of what's going on on the ground and could you elaborate a little bit more you've suggested here the extraordinary inequality in the effects and spread of this virus of course here in the United States but perhaps with different orders of magnitude in countries like India with such a large population. That is a poor who this this Virus is likely to impact the most and the relationship between these decades of which which you've pointed out decades of neoliberalism and at the populations that are going to be the most affected by this in India as well as here. Well you know the sort of neo-liberal sorts of policies that we've seen around the world have had the effect of greatly increasing inequality you know. So you know you see the terrible psycho and in a lot of the lot of the informal workers in Delhi are actually follows from our areas that have been very badly hit by a change twenty. Sixteen for example. There was a terrible drought in central India. Hundreds of thousands of people leaving the diligence. Every single dairy flocking into cities. Like daddy where they lived under flyovers. What are those people going to do? In the circumstances. How can they even return again? You know obviously I mean. People live in very close contact in slums in shantytowns. It's going to spread very very fast there. Those people are not going to be able to get themselves tested. They're not going to be able to go to hospitals in any case at this point in time I suspect hospitals are going to be the prime center for the transmission of this disease. You know we are seeing that around the world. There's no reason to believe that that would be the case in India so yes just one example. I mean in the in the few during this last week as the panic was beginning to spreading in there. A migrant worker started piling into trains in thousands. You can imagine it in a train compartment. How quickly spread if you could comment on a tough Gauche on president trump going to India right at the time that people were saying he had to be speaking about corona virus. Not only there but dealing with what's happening in the United States as well but instead he was there at a stadium being celebrated not saying any word when it could have made such an enormous difference and also talk more about. I mean your book is titled The Great Derangement Climate Change and the unthinkable Very appropriate for what's happening right now but if you could talk more deeply about the connection between climate change and the growth of these viruses the spread of these viruses and what we haven't taken seriously until this point. Well yes you're right. I mean just a few weeks ago. President trump was in India with the Prime Minister Narendra Moody. They were in a huge stadium with tens of thousands of people. I can get with hundreds of thousands actually and you can just. You can just sense that. This is a huge incubator of the disease. You know even if you are a couple of weeks ago. There were massive cricket matches going on across in there. It was just a spectacle of derangement. You know my book is called the Great Derangement on every single day I see more and more signs of this kind of derangement so our relationship with climate change. Well as far as I can tell. Obviously one direct relationship is rising temperatures will create will make the transmission of certain kinds of diseases easier and certain in certain cases. But I think we can't think of it only in terms of causal relationship. I think these things. This pandemic the global migration crisis so many other things actually all effects you know off this great acceleration that we've been seeing for the last thirty years since starting about nineteen ninety since we've had this sort of neoliberal. Reggie economic regime put in place across the one half of all other greenhouse gas emissions. That are in the skies right now since. Nineteen ninety. So it's exactly in this period that we've witnessed this incredible acceleration in travel in mobility. All the things that make it possible for a pandemic to instantly as well as Predator around the world and can you speak specifically On the question of this great acceleration to the Moldy government's policies specifically I mean a lot of people have criticized the government for the way in which it imposed this curfew and compared it to his decision to a D. monetize the currency a couple of years ago. So could you talk? About the impact of the Modi Government policies both on the question of inequality and the impact on climate crisis of some of the policies at the more. The government has pursued this. This lockdown announcement was made at eight. Pm At night and the monetization announcement was also made in a similar way and the D. Monetization announcement created absolute panic. That lasted for a long time disrupted lives and really rendered the informal sector very very vulnerable. These have not recovered from that so when this was announced that the prime minister is going to make another sort of major announcement already that created a kind of incredible panic so about from that You know the last few months in India have been incredibly difficult. I mean are the government also announced announced central changes in citizenship laws which is completely divided the country and created upheavals across the country. This couldn't in fact have happened. That was moment. So you know it's going to create a lot of uncertainty of panic going ahead. I don't think anyone can. Anyone can really foresee what lies ahead in the next few weeks because I heal absolutely show. That three weeks is not enough. It's going to be much more than that. You know. We are just seeing the beginnings of this pandemic in India so the multi government policies from the start of being very anti-environmental Dave to the Forest Rights Act which protected the rights of many forest forest dwelling indigenous peoples. Did even things like you know. In India. We had strict. We got strict regulations about building close to the to the to the coast strict regulations about leaving a certain amount of land that you couldn't build on so obviously hotels resorts all those sorts of lobbies. They wanted that changed and they were able to push through a change. You just think about this. This moment in time with sea level rise and suddenly allowed to grow to build closer and closer to the sea. It's a kind of madness and especially the devastation that is happening in India's for INS- being opened up to to mining interests across India. All of this is going to create absolute disaster because we can see that you know that kind of ecological destruction arc. It's the It's deforestation that creates the conditions for these animal to human transmission of Amitav. Ghosh we're going to have to leave it there. I want to thank you for being with us. Indian writer based in Brooklyn where he self-isolating author of the Great Derangement. Climate change and the unthinkable. And that does it for the show. We cannot end this broadcast without a moment of joy and act. Joy is that it's nermeen. Shakespeare nermeen a very very happy birthday. I wish you were right here. My side so you could blow out this candle with me but you are so important in this broadcast represent such an important ray of hope as do all our colleagues here at democracy now both at the studio and self-isolating but working so hard at home. Happy Birthday Nermeen. Happy happy you're nermeen democracy now Is brought to you by a remarkably dedicated group of passionate producers Viagra. Fers I'm Amy Goodman from New York City. Thanks so much.

United States New York City India Doctor Craig Spencer Donald trump Senator Bernie Sanders New York president Africa President senator government Amy Goodman Vermont Spain China Columbia University Medical Ce United States Senate New Zealand
Tribuna Especial Fan Edition #001  Andr Matos e seu Morenarmy

Metal Mantra Podcast

1:18:37 hr | 6 months ago

Tribuna Especial Fan Edition #001 Andr Matos e seu Morenarmy

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Aintree Postcast: Day Two Tipping | Mildmay Novices' Chase | Melling Chase | Topham Handicap Chase

Racing Post

21:56 min | 2 years ago

Aintree Postcast: Day Two Tipping | Mildmay Novices' Chase | Melling Chase | Topham Handicap Chase

"Friends or maybe more at twenty created free bed for every friend. He referred to potty power, thanks to our friends with benefits program. Log into your party para count and share your referral link to get started terms and conditions apply in plus began to dot org. By that. I very warm. Welcome to the day to of Aintree postcard on Bridgman Linton and delighted to be joined by Keith Melrose and David Jennings from the racing post as well as from Patty power that shrewdly Noyo royally seven races throughout with fruit. And then we will get Noelle and Cates. National fancies DJ. He's on the national show tomorrow. So he can keep his powder. Dry. We'll start with the one forty five on Friday in the Mersey rial handicap hurdle tough race now gives a show and then kick off with the first tip. Yes. There were place in this race and brio Conte's our fight when favourite Canetti years. Eight to one month is up war tend to one night into boy ten to one project blue book ten to one and twelve to one and it was all set the put a bowl plan for Evan Williams here too. He's not been declared to his left or not winning call Asprey to lash actually think is very interesting. He's up America one hundred thirty two and he was very impressed. With last starts with Tiki could be well, handicapped, Adam wedge, takes Royd is a jockey, really. Like, and and yet I think he's wearing each way about it. The fourteen to one or soldiery is saying those colors carried around entry with distinction by Alvorada. Of course, then the is K through July K of respect for the Williams horse. Both those that were adopted was interested in Yukon CBA. I'd be more hopeful of Hadid took a dive. It took a dies upon before the race. Because it needs to be presented as is possible is real daughter. Actually, it can I think. The way sheep in the caudal Cup was was really good to eat. How to make a really big moved on the hill. And then just feed it up the hill was this for Sean since toolbar he's only had eight runs in his life, potentially. It'd be the unexposed Torsan one with just a little bit less emphasis on stamina could could improve bore so con- RDA's the tip for Dermott a McLaughlin. What see like TJ really really go trainer. Really, really, really go. Jay, I think he got horse for gigging San shortly. He had fixed canvas. And a couple of really good hearts has got Santa Rosa and the bumper as well when he tried to win this and one thing I would suggest is that can already it was definitely favor. That would be my prediction this race. This will be a jars you could see him going off seventy two I think he's eight. Now he will be a plunge ours. Put the two I'm going to put up a huge prices both. I think thirty three to one maybe even fifties. The first of them is wait for me for Philip Hobbs. And Richard Johnson, look at PISA horrible horsey very lofta bridal. But he traveled, particularly well, I taught in the pretend Cheltenham last him over three months. I don't think he gets three mile in the strongly one race. He will tank through this on two and a half months. Flat track at Aintree could sues and the other one who's got even more to prove. But it seriously handicapped, and I was made to muse for Donald McCain and Brian Hughes who actually refused to raise in the in the Martin Pipe whipped around at stack didn't take any peritonitis. But if you go back through his former beat Sam spinner as novice hurdler he was second in the grade one at Aintree as a novice hurdle that season. He was rated us how he's one hundred and forty five we in two hundred thirty seven days so to against the feed will be at weight for me. A main news the two twins, easy is the beltway top novices. Hurdle is a great one choice a strongest grade one Aintree is ever hosted. But it certainly competitive Noel, what's the latest. Yes. Issues are treated one favorite Aramon seventy-two precious cargo nine two feet Estacio sixty one say Fieldstone thirteen to ninety one being horrible about this rice case other things. So I think the supreme is actually. May get credit for Italian of the three that running or here again. I'd be itchy feet and Phoenix dead. She thought what she possibly did. Well, coming back from where he did. He was he was all of it down the hill. Still really well to nearly get seconds. That means you'll sue entry barrier. Don't really know. So maybe at twice the price. I would have have a chance on Phoenix edgy absolutely tightened through the supreme didn't really seem again of the hill. But he has got former two and a half mile. So it's not like he struggles to stay just a horse this really high cruising speed, and that might see him around Daintree. And I think the Nichols horsemeat take them along. You've tip Felix deja few Tom's in your life. DJ you're going to keep the faith here. I have no I'm not I think he's probably a little bit to art here at the one. I think is over prices Rouge with who I've been a big fan of all season for Harry Whittington. And I think the fact that he he comes here as his main aim for the season like all season, even when he was second to mister Fisher and ahead of Thomas Darby Kempton Boxing Day, and Harry winning said straightaway. Not going to knock on Cheltenham. He's going to answer any warmed up for Aintree would Eitan pretty pretty breathtaking win in the grey to Kelso and thought he was seriously impressed with that take getaway. Trump was odds on favorite and he devoured him. I think he's going to get an easy lead again here and on Aintree showed really Susan. I think he's a very good horse. And I have done all season. I think he's on the rest of major. So I think Rouge with go out the big price. Noelle, who's your fancy young overlooked? Sorry. But it's raised, but it washes supreme MAC last night. I had forgotten who I will feed. Stacey run I think this flatter track. And better granted sushi's. He's such a strong traveler, they actually hammered them in the bed and not they thought he was going to run a good race, which he did itchy feet up ury by taking a shore price after he blade and his eight again quickly here. And I think our is a big danger. I think this track and grain will definitely suit and better than which out and did precious cargoes one that would look short to me to you so much defined. And so, yeah, I'll stick with failure Felix station. One of the rices of the festival for show was the IRS I in which top of the game ran out. Really really spectacular winner. I loved that rice. I love the front three and top of the game reappears entering the two. Fifty is the way mild might Novus Chisec great one and he's old zone is no this money back. Specially some money back of top of the game wins the race. And he's are eight to eleven favors Nelson. Translation, seventy-two Christmas tree nine to one Mr. twelve to one fourteen hundred overs lane fourteen one top band, fourteen sorry, twenty to one crucial stage. I can you save you on the five. No, I don't think that's a bad price at all. I could see a case be made from being shorter. And he's officially rated six pain better than awesome. Translation losses. Translation run. Very well in jail a top of the game one and above average or essay auditing. He's exception. I think you to in next year's gold copen, I think he'd win this. No, she'll view I'm both in the sea lost in translation over three mile here. And I'm actually all over him to be top of the game. Like, they're actually quite closely matched on the lung Chula bag raw one seven two two and the odors. Eleven and lost in translation also has the course form from last year. When you second the black up at one of the main angles and taking into this actually thought yours is seem to grueling race Rona very fast time and while I think top of the game. As did you said could be a proper goal course. Next year. I'm just going to take him on here. I think he's willing to speed your type in Austin translation, he probably didn't go hard enough in the jail t take you didn't have to race because at Collins hazardous series record injury. He's eleven winners four runners sensitize and thirteen so clearly amount of follow here. So. Yeah. All in lost in translation each way here. Eight hundred just two seven run and show. Sorry, sorry. I have backed in hunting poles, but yeah, just just all in Austin transaction, eighth Thorshavn view both laws of a point in their. Listen translation is going to be smart three Mylar, Abassi mild, and he was enough mother. But he's up against the hawks that might well be fever for the Gold Cup next year. So for that reason, I think I'll would be struggling to oppose top of the game. Just very quick mention the way the reason why you Ben might be more home than he's expected to on one. But you know, if you can bear. On the spread of without spetsnaz bats or without the first two or something might be the Beverly because when he gets out in front going lifetime that on his own. I guess and terrorism is probably at one forty five one fifty horse. So might kept who thought on the you'll be the first to very well done chaps and other very exciting rice coming up after this very short break here at Patty power with the home of the money back special with some incredible office every single week check out the website or app today. Terms and conditions apply. Eighteen plus begun to welcome back. We all running through data to Aintree. Let's do the three twenty five T OT chase spat known as the mailing chase. It's a great one and the lesser spotted whiting patiently heads petty Powell's market. You know, he's fifty eight favors political Logan two to one min eleven to four top notch nine to one hell's kitchen twelve to one God's on thirty three to one and wooden operas fifty to one seven again oil such a bit of a pain because otherwise it would be all sorts of H Y fence say who is your fence though to win this. Look I'm excited to watch this race. But from a bat and perspective, fainter tricky. And I think waiting patiently is the better, horse, polite. Little golf see has the course form which can be important knowing the last ten winners of this race how to run at the track previously, and we impatiently does come here to fresh horse. And I I'm cheap pieces of jobs. Go into Soyuz's him just really liked the horse. He's a strong traveler would attorney pace and he's really quick and accurate. Jumper obviously going. Min going closeness last year. We just not a fat not a horse of a massive final. Personally. Am so Yeltsin. And so yeah. Out secret. Wait impatiently case. Who'd you like I think polo logo of the Hemin men because obviously be last year. I didn't think he's a children force until he joined the champion chase. I think he wants to flat try, but you prove that a little bit wrong at Cheltenham, either them from last year going the right way as a little over men whose only really wants them small fueled races this year, we impatiently I'm just taking a to boogie disregard him if he wins. Great. I just have Mathias about what is going to show up in shore so district guard those prices and Atiku on the chin you cops and the seven one dollars is a shame. Religiously because it beats by almost daily table and go zone for a place to pick up police when he doesn't go zone said she grows, isn't it? He's been smashing hostile in the post day. Did you get wind of no room of the men had a slight interrupt to preparation before the championship? Chase. I didn't. But it's interesting you say that because I think the lots are being very dismissive of Maine here to be honest with you Keita's he won't a couple of small field races. He won't to grade wounds very impressively before going to Cheltenham a night would say, I'm I think he'd agree with me if he ever came on the podcast and Deroit ruby Walsh gave me in in the champion. Chase was possibly the worst. Roy I ever seen him give a horse, and it was it was so bad. It was scary to watch. And I'd say he'd love to have another go as he did his own thing and his head. He wanted to comb what one run at all to your. And he wants to give them set maybe two or three lands at the last. And then KOMO one ruin he just literally road men to be to be out your and that backfired spectacularly because he got into an all sorts of all sorts of trouble and down the hill. And I will completely forget about that role in. And if you do forget about that Roan I taught last year it was almost Ahmad winner of the race. Because Boko the flow kind of went very very quick in front, and he was kind of. Robbed. I taught by peninsula. Just on the run in police logs, obviously, a good horse. But if you take that age, all you think maintenance got some crack inform, and I don't think he gets the credits deserves he's officiate one hundred and sixty seven which I think is probably bad. Right. You think he's going to win this race? I think you'll see a different ride from Rubio Mendes. I think he'd be more aggressive. I think he'd uses jumping nine hundred when I agree with you for that is worth which is not very much toll. Let's look at the four. Oh, five Reynolds health top handicap chase over the big fences ship if fantastic spectacle, eight two on the Phil very very difficult, betting puzzle. Now gives the latest now. Yes, we're going six place in the race. Because it is quite difficult race to figuration at is or eight thousand favors peregrine ruin his ten to one itching. The Pont is twelve to one Pali hill twelve to one call it. Magic twelve to one and sixteen to one bear. Well, is it difficult Kaethe? Well, you could make exceptionally difficult for yourself or with six places I'd be fairly happy just taking Bobby hill each week. I think he is. I think he's been into the streets a little bit chilly on jumps a mile May Day, which is usually a good indicator. He does a really solid jumper and prominent racer, which is all the Houdini. Take to the national course and not form at Cheltenham, and John these two and a half mile races at Cheltenham could end up a little bit weak looking form after the potty priority, though, the get the get worse and worse and worse the seasons goes on. But not it was basically Sittard a lot Ingenico sixty clue the rest apart from Bali hill who is right in the middle these to lure knows who. I think he's cracking chance efficient and the first four or five you make a very persuasive case DJ who's your fancy. I love one in this, right? And the bottom, I don't even know what pricey is I think he's very twenty-five. Kill Cray was four in the rates last year of America, one hundred thirty five and he was so much to do and he was badly hampered for there. So he was and then he came back, and he ran and Iran behind warriors tail here in December and this afternoon, I taught he ran another. Cracker. He's only beaten just over two lengths. And he made some terrible mistakes. Say he's been laid over this race by NICKY Henderson because it's the only type of race that he can win this season. And I think he has taken well to the national fences. He does make an mistake. But this is a horse. It was right at much higher in his early days. He was a good novice chase or good novice hurdler. And I think off American one hundred thirty five I think he's got a great chance Noel who'd you like. Horses. Twenty two one DJ just you know. Yeah. I actually think we could see a monster performance here from Janika. He's just a horse are really like an attack create won't class to the very high American. He's not the biggest horse. We see tiger or last year that that these really clever slick jumpers can actually get over these fences skim through them don't they know yet. Exactly. And I think you'll do just us and he's eight to one because he couldn't be the six. I'd be absolutely hammered us each way and the ad Jonathan from the Bisi just piles of oak Christmas trees now the national fences with a little rub it in the middle. You can get through the today show you that when he won the national, and you can do stop them still to get into too many watch tiger all the national last Jedi was flying. But the few times. So there's always danger. I'm going to send the call them say they've done an incredible trick of Mike and the much much safer book for the once a year fan. They still looks like the Grand National is still out. The Grand National has done a brilliant job. Okay. The full forties. The doom bar septum Nova. She's heard or and champ is on retrieval mission. What price is hey Nile. Yes. So he's. Yes, what he's our fight to favors. Dallas depict on four to one Amitav five to one listening. Oscar six to one Ireland in twelve to one hundred and getaway twelve to one voyage corn twelve two thousand fourteen Humber David Jennings who will cross the line in front. I think champ probably will to be honest with you five to two I think is is reasonable value. And like that it's hard to know what to make of the Ballymore Bush, San the two of them nicely. And it was a two-horse race with champion city oil and from the second last really eating to step up on trip showed showed prove no problem. He's a smooth traveler, he's a good jumper. Am. I think he's just a better horse in Dallas this picked on like he's ready to four hired in them. I think that's about rice. And I think Dallas is picked on as a Nighthorse traveled. Well in the Martin Pipe was just beaten by well, handicapped horse and early doors Bush them at five to two I I don't think there's anything wrong with that price. Like, I don't see any of the rest of them winning. I think it's a two horse race. So I'd be I'd be big fan of two to one should you think sticking Neka a little bit. No. I was just gonna agree with Dave. I don't think this. It's been been priced properly. I think this ago of soap two to one myself yet. Look he can be keen under be reasons to take him on flights. The two's probably too big a price to do that. I'm just going to chance one each way because I'm struggling with this race really at dainty, getaway and other Henderson horse. No, not really confident. He was good horse. And then he was bought by current connections and sent to Henderson he wants hurdles sorry. He was second hurdles debut when he showed a one. And then he was very unimpressive at Ascott to crawl that. And he'd probably much barely showed. And it'd be the Fergal O'Brien horses run weld since the step up to the tree Moore's should really suit him out of price Rodman back the favorite is just back in. What was your strategy case, Melrose? Chumps really good horse is is Dallas to pick. Tony you're going to be top-class chasers. Bought entirely sure. Either ready for three miles yet. You get funny results in these three mile grade at the end of the season because you've often go backwards horses are maybe gonna need a bit more moly enough for this season. So reluctantly so possible, or if it was going to have a bit rates like this where you get a Jack nudie form might be worth playing small on us a bigger price one. And there's another one that's the racing analogies. That's absolutely lords. That goes, which is what off often his needs to improve on it. But when you want to read three last time, he looked like he was absolutely crying for three miles. He's got the expedients and he's going to. Absolutely. And it was twenty to one hundred I saw he's possibly the horses. Going steal passed a few in maybe featured at the end. So so a place mall and play a big prices in this race is generally that we go because of the makeup of the horses and Orlando, really, okay? A five fifteen being run to the cackle of tipsy ladies, the sound of breaking glass and ladies entering full flow is the bump poem Nonni prices yet. But let's just gives the winner. Nah. I will start with you. I was so impressed with MC fabulous last time. He hammered Diesen look and feel with plenty of expensive types at the time from what I can see look very good. She's a pretty decent figure. I sort of form would look very tros wordy debut. All y'all so hammer to noise types and ask Dylan and listening. Oscar, you've obviously done the form. No harm. And I didn't think he handled Cheltenham in between them two runs on forgive not ruin at the opposition. I taught master Devon would ruin a lot better. And he did a Cheltenham, but yeah, let's stick with MC fabulous. He'll you're gonna go forth. Kaethe? Discusses before. And we're both very key. Don't make fabulous. I mean. I'd be lying. I said look to all the form here. But it's just gonna take a video that he could wouldn't be as often Nichols horses shoes. Much as he has stage of his career. He tanked all over them at Newburgh new Betty bumpers normally good that Luke almost especially. So that when he was asked to win Israel and the wings at the last hole right onto the stuns real, obviously, very clean. But after that kicked on six seven cleared and one very well. Possibly a very very good horse. They've agendas sussed one. Oh, I have. Yeah. I've been waiting for this for a while. And Santa Rosa, we spoke McLaughlin earlier in the show. And I think he's got a potential star here in Santa Rosa to really interesting things here. He was thrown this arson the champion bumper let me thought he'd super chance. But the owner wasn't as keen Disney mayor, and there's a mayor spokesper today on instead of going for the mayor's bumper today, he's decided to go for discipline per on Friday, which I actually think potentially Koby a week up on pro which is which is quite interesting. She gets obviously way from arrival. She's getting tree. Mac fabulous. And I love to performance leper sent on that open rates festival. I Tachi quicken really really smartly there. And I don't think she had done much work before she wanted to debut. It very host and dating the absolute world of our. It'll be really interesting see to bet in here because I've kind of don't may own type tissue thing here on I kinda make McVay Bolus roughly by five to two and Santa Rosa three to one. But I think Santa Rosa goal favorite one thousand nine hundred lovely stuff. Let's get the Friday nuts. This will not be too. You're gonna go full. I think bought a hell each week as the best best Bill today. And that's in the top five sneezy. Okay day. Jay and mine is going to be men in the three twenty five an oil to fifty Aintree loss and translation, obviously, we're an MBA not race you'd want to be back in the middle Yukon very big on that one on. Now, they toppling him tomorrow. I am back with Paul Kenny David Jennings and Frank Hickey for a special Grand National post cost all the best bits on the big race and the rest of the card and indeed elsewhere that means that Kaethe annoy l- can give us their national fence. He's now DJ you can sit on yours Kaethe who you're gonna go full for quite a while national funds has been pleasant company. He absolutely took to the coast up to our last year ended up in front early. Then he should have been appealed all the way you second beecher's really awful law in front. There was coming back into a tiger row. Took to really well. He's been basically see for the resource year ever since. And I think he's starting to go well about twenty s okay? And Noel you've been talking this horse up on the podcast old winter, and he's just go in. So you must be extremely excited. I'm excited at Joe Farrell. He's just snuck in Amer pin chipping away at them since September. Say September and a cracker neighbor last time, he jumps. I think he's the best jumper in the field. And it's too insane. I'd probably felt the first Israeli exuberant big jumper. He stays. Well. He liked the grains. I don't think there's any negatives to. I definitely think he's a big each way. But in the race, Joe Farrell non-oil and pleasant company for case danger. I don't tell us show national fancy, but all you swayed on one this year. Back at a forty two one Bushra. I don't think I've ever backed winner two Grand National. So it's not a good start. The closest I've call was went druids nephew by flav clear, six eighty fail tally or well. Hopefully, or this week is the is is the year that you brought it thank stage. I will speech. It's more. Noel have great weekend. And k thank you so much feel contributions last days, you must come back and join us on the polish cost. Okay. Thanks for joining us. We are back tomorrow for a Grand National special. What's my whole says handicap the fuck that y'all buck you? Everyone loves that newbie. That's why putty power games they're giving all new customers. Sixty free spins on daily jackpot games. You power games customers only one per customer teases. He's a plant eighteen plus becoming way.

Noel Santa Rosa DJ Dallas Grand National Noelle America Patty power Rouge NICKY Henderson Jay Nichols Keith Melrose Phoenix David Jennings Asprey Oscar Joe Farrell
12 Elementos da Gesto de Excelncia - Q07 a Q10 - S01E35

Talentos para o Sucesso

43:43 min | 2 months ago

12 Elementos da Gesto de Excelncia - Q07 a Q10 - S01E35

"Judah mice to study studying to not to sponsors but these also socially to usa judy being over got much sashes achilles simply upc. Spanish meal is collect warming sequel source only tabacchi acapa. That it keeps him out of achille. Five sample watch passage suggest. How does that affect case. Ancient hypnotist city illegible von near sucker rod in latin into our painting. Bogus all acute illness. He'll shawn watson to doors that just don't just sell. Answer is kid those allah people. There were keiser finished second. All of us as the premiership is arduous Arctic seeing danda to the customers. Which you lucky he you those state alleged you so i shall now. Yeah really chicken us. Fantas fed has evolved. Terminals is chewing on episodes novels. Navas day as long as continued converse. Here nope watch revere. My thing inspired success saying the talent points for us. Does my score cat on. dailies threatened. june Just just to just gaikwad converse our book mysore conversation gaj who seals leader was nsf. Amitav dugout or ju. Ju fat is ample fitting as meal. Solomon to academic. Do you do those. Those amount to digest audience knows are looking at that will face quite in amount to almost sample amusement Kiss action because out of sach that kit that's how we're kicking thermos precipitate a sephora zip. His accused was those into a main separartist era keith. Almost four sumo pyramid jemma has not thrown premier. Spur of those familiar. My slice eat. Thanks look at those casper. Puzzles might give me grabble quiet. Damage accumulates five minute now buzzed. Deputy deputy yet. This glad eat a poisonous squad. Tippers are not sounds those nastiest Twice neck notice from silent Main two distinct. Dr cooper sore it as visiting for me dench. Getting charles key doppler mira test independent. 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Corporate identity That's the accident so corporate ourselves using the rookie nepotism achievers. I deputies going along with the bulla but say how much multiple he achieve keep shopping. Today is muscular. those asia don't tumble violent and macos potentially to get him over. Don't get your start. The key keep lead. There is a beer as your eyes. You demonstrate overloaded zone. Do as open your eyes now. Comex leader star key followed easer as opinions leader are down Kabosh get Now midwood years. But i was a kid. And these are the main pushes linda janjia syracuse saint opening odell. Escort the jets said ocoee esau Follow is out or just that mice. He thought kiet Tool do that i i. Sleep is the item at the main precipitation heads to prejudge the fate of the tuneless assistantship. Archie owns review their thing As saddam view the business to see this is a database for a convenient to accurate with the ball bone. That will stay today. burbank wonder what that was. 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Montaas Vacas y bicis en la ciudad  Viajando Despacio 161

Podcast RadioViajera

1:00:23 hr | 1 year ago

Montaas Vacas y bicis en la ciudad Viajando Despacio 161

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My name was not enough if I'll whereas he finally Sarah partners out there fairly in November parental the air in the Infield rose in long. uh-huh being soclean. Theo that will sell to LS Path Theo. EJ established by most of the rest glow Luna. There should be after his guilt already about those misses the moon it but the we we we are not key the flu the last shall win. Get done the last shall when asking the have you. When does increase without getting super is going to be the Russia you went always city is stop and we'll just stick those in Connecticut National Right? Of course not going Gordon. Assadi is going to be going to not let me be attacked those my shopping bills. Go for it. This will be located can have you done by your body. The most dabbler Bat Boys Gomez La Vida Lee style by the moonies stealth that. But there's not enough money to me and my the YEP so initial Pushto Keith. Going Diana's Komo on Kasan brutal very months mixed up and the only put on whether you hit. 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Exciting is ready to go and was to have you. She'll she'll meet. I don't think and the more you slow solo put up on the I hope. CNN you'll get distinction. You can hear my sister just he ought to put up one of these senators meaning student. He's going to do that if an it'll go until March when five times Seattle also get out of national socialist. She'll be like you you know they don't know how you thinking of buying a ton switcher on Double Gold Oakland. She gave up one and eight. I John I don't know her own now. She connected me the voice yeterday point there. She's been governor Louis all talking so how come on. He'll tell me about it and they will spend your balance and look on this guy do these days. You're never northward. Kale One district academic Bogo new by Stanfield. That's the supremo shower. This I bet all that data they meet with this Notre Dame mutual and you know they know south is Sean. You had a banging big NATO. Don't get over this on this Boko. 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18: Cheltenham Festival 2020 Thursday Preview ft. Patrick Mullins, Paul Nicholls, Aidan Colemen & more

Racing Post

34:33 min | 1 year ago

18: Cheltenham Festival 2020 Thursday Preview ft. Patrick Mullins, Paul Nicholls, Aidan Colemen & more

"Welcome back along to the racing riot festival preview on alongside Charlie Post and Andrew Black White. And we're going to be digging in the Thursday action on this episode of the Cheltenham Festival. And we're going straight into it. Charlie beat around the Bush. It's the jail will not the jail to any more. It's the marsh chase over two miles and four furlong disagreed one and some great horses one. This my favorite ever round of jumping. Cheltenham was the tool when he won this race. Is there another vitor in the field? I mean look. We've got an absolute superstar in the field in four of them. We have what is easy? It's been for him and they would be some story for a twelve year old to win a grade. One Novice Chaser Chum Festival and you see it realistically. Can I see it? Probably not would I ever want to rule it out with a whole site for. Heen definitely not it could happen. It was a modern day with elephants. Time with our under subsidy brilliant brought a tear to. I think a lot of people's is I think he has a chance here if he turns up I think my main quander with them is actually whether Orlando pruning at Cheltenham Ready. Yeah I just don't think the volumes are quite a one hundred percent thing. I think a lot of people taking it for granted that he will run on. Maybe it wouldn't be the worst thing. I obviously love to see him. Cheltenham if he was to be kept back and Punches Stan and hopefully win it plunges down that might be a brilliant way to to cast off his career. Who is the best of the arson? `Nigma some CRA. I think some crow is probably Yup. I agree I'm glad that I just think it's Jason. Debut was obviously very impressive. It wasn't much of a race but it's still goods and I do think there was a difference with how he traveling in the fact that due to re race than there was against full heating limerick heavy at Christmas is a whole different species to your normal heavy grand I think in essence. Almost Dave stayed and kind of broken by falling turning in the only thing is actually that much discredit enough for goes well not ground and I still think he would have beaten factor due to re in the dream more if that was the case he be assured or price than he is. I think people have kind of cottoned on was he was the bigger process certain stages both. I just think Gordon can perhaps work. The oracle hair mainly can was all over the shop this time last year and even he managed to come third in this race point. Deputy Sawyer and lost in translation. So I'd like to hope Gordon could perhaps guess some crow to return to somewhere near as best I agree. He's at the wind up a nice layoff. I think ordinarily is GonNa Happen. Firing Gordon moving onto almost forgotten horse now. Two years ago he looked at the world feet some crow. We hear that he goes definitely for the march chasing how likely it how hopefully that he can bounce back this new. You're always hope he has problems finding it very hard getting schooled rice. And you know what he's go- these coach and he goes well voice for in in them ric so you have the hope in the chance as the ground is you know. Thank C. Heavy gun with them. But he's in good form and if he's going into the festival forgotten awesome a civil where the door depeche in two years ago. He's going into this show with no pressroom. Whatever happens with he's had a window. Have you noticed any improvements? As he has his nominee is so hopefully he can only be right here from a personal point of view of a good friends. Only Murphy had its first grade one winner recently with it and he looks like he could never be favourite for this race. And so I hope feet and back it up and witnessed and provide all over this I John Investor but instead of listening to you two idiots talk about that only has one of my best mates itchy feet provide you with your first grade one winner in first grade woman do Brooks which is a phenomenal day. You must be serious excited about southern him in the marsh novice chase really look forward to Johnny. He's he's in good full. He came down really well I can keep one Lewis now. That is going to run. The race doesn't matter if it rains. Snow Sleet Sore. Stays dry out. Emberley mind around like he's he's in very good form as a sad and I think he's all she's only going to improve he's only had Only had two starts today the fence outlet or more to come in the supreme last year. A quick word on the seconds. Thomas Dhabi key. You train is he potentially going to run at Cheltenham a tool or is that going to be completely off the cards? He definitely doesn't go to Cheltenham He'll be it'd be scratching the champion hurdle scratching stage He is going to go straight to the turnoff mile. Great One Unfortunately for the other day was nothing short but disaster. The race works out He looked like he was gonna get back up and went running off that don't care which wasn't a parent but that's racing. We tighten the chairman. We'll look for entry of his favorite for the For the national MRIs chase. What do you think is main attribute is and you think what was the one thing that really sort of clinging onto the father? He's favorite our our our. I suppose things right and sandown especially if the grass could we testing switches off eagle into a lovely rhythm jumping wise. It's all very well being exuberant in a integrate one but you have to conserve plenty of energy now especially on slow grams for that for the second part of race and I think he does that very well and I find found his he is actually strong stare and he probably did welter to to to compete in seventy great races last year two miles so I think he's A. He's a strong staff. He's he's got four course form and we're excited about running. We ride in patient again definitely. We actually discussed that this morning. Myself and government is definitely no needs why to many different. He'll go around halfway and be put to sleep for the first half the race and hopefully see him coming home strong once they once. They jumped at the top of the health about up a storm. Irish challenges of this race is going to be quite fascinating if Faheen turns up. Some crows had a wind up which twenty? Irish contenders are. You most worried about. Would it be a fairytale? Faheen Win. Listening be phenomenal shorter. Your Komo integrate. One as another same in Cheltenham for me are disappointed. He came there and and beat my voice In the twelve away from not so Shakes Alejo turns up in done. If you guys any more than neighbor he's been he's been very very strongly pumped it on a on a few panels. I've been doing recently and in in and around the country So I was hoping it goes to the RSA but so does he's able to what I would be with. Your fairy tale wins. He and he doesn't WANNA fairytale. He defeats witnessed. The biggest threat might be lasting. Audie Murphy wants the fairy tale at Cheltenham acting the retail. Is that thing to win? A second it's not riley she's shown me but listen I'd rather see him when than anything else but Hopefully hopefully that's not the case. But Yeah I taught my latte rather than cutting back not knocking myself or my place but I think if Willie mullins poised she from island than any one. Six two four shot up. That's that's only my opinion. isn't good form. He's he's a lot more experienced now than Egypt. Forty down and get excited about running the second race on. The Thursday is the three mile per tempts network final handicap hurdle of. It's A. It's a ball ache to qualify for this race and some horses seem to do it particularly well including Saudi burly. Last year he reopposes in this race. This shape it doesn't look like it's going to be I during J P McManus Phoenix Way. Trained BY HARRY FRY. Looks like he will be. I think he was given a an interesting. Ri- Barra Garrity last time less. Nothing's handicapper and I think Phoenix way could win this. I think he could be the one. That improves reminds me a bit of A. You know what I mean Harry type of the Hebron the bar but I think Phoenix way could potentially go and win the attempts network final. Another horse kilbarchan storms Now it's not definite. I agree that he's going to run in this race because a connection seem quite adamant that he goes to the top graded races even even though I think we can all agree that he's probably not class and he's not going to get anywhere near Paisley Park you. We're GONNA touch on later so trial you agree with you about covert install my thing. He's you know he's he's a he's a former festival winter a positive. He's got a nice race. Wait and yet he could just be one. That could go and do that. I think Phoenix ways a sexy horse. He's got the right connections. You know he was delivered very late to win narrowly as if it was almost like pains not to win too far with this in mind down. We say it again. I think law. She is a qualified again around Warwick. He's not that much island law. She'd have to be a player. Stanley Berg again. I think he stays forever. He he won a Cheltenham before as well he's going to be in. I'd have one of those few for me. I think it's interesting that you mentioned Sandy. Because we're on the line. So Ollie Murphy all the temps now and you have one of the strong funds for the race in Scandi Burg. Who showed were often not re traveling taller jumping the last day stamina in abundance and finished off well and not must give you great conference going into this race. He stays well It's one of those races. It's it's a race that you have to have to raise the right way to shoot the race. This latte tends to switch off very well albeit. He probably ought to show them the last day. But yeah he's a he's a he's a sweet loss. He puts model face every day. And he's he's a pig improve on an hopefully hasn't stopped improving just shop. He's not been seen since winning. Calvin was that always the case as soon as he won that put him away and getting ready for this concert. If I had my way Josh wouldn't've He would go into the last day. I I'd Academy Very fresh horseback listening. He's picked up a nice along the way as well We LOST SIX POUNDS FOR. I think either six or eight pound for winning and Cheltenham State. But I don't think I had one hundred percent in ears that he never really traveled. He was flat. He did have long and still wants. That'd be taking a fresh oeste. Count Them I'm GONNA cheat pieces on him to hopefully helping traveled through the race initially factor. And he's one. I would mind saying the sunshine for the next week. I think he just us why I wanted the nicer ground. He your best chance of a winner in the week. Go question if you actually put the gun to my head and said what was my best chance. I'll tell you bring up a storm but I think scandi burke has a has an ideal where of racing for her attempts. He'll switch often. I'd love to think you'll be saying come home very strong now from Tony. We touched on earlier. The bruins Thomas Donahue and itchy feet with very close in getting your first Cheltenham Festival winner. How much would it mean to you to get off the market? Such a big festival in the low of Soochow. My first grade woman share which was which was massive contract. The winner is what you dream about as a jockey pontchartrain rob or no no solace naturally all through this year. I've got small but select team going. And if one can hit the bullseye with the with the absolutely buzzing Andrea are you going to oppose him within the Irish our earning dish out? Yeah I just take one small chance on an Irish shores and this horse called a great view. I think he's slipping under the radar but he was third in the race to in the race. Relegations fourteen recently relegations has got an awful lot of press. She shape very nicely on a return to the track for column Murphy but this whole can also slip under the radar Iran equally catching race. They really fancy disorder two years ago. The delta work be Glenn Low. In a photo finish was sixth year where he made a bad mistake to recover. I just think he's still got a nice race in ways. Harry's in one forty two uncle well run. Well that's what we love to hear Andrew. The next race on the Thursday is the great one Ryanair Chase now. This race for me in the past hasn't been an annoying race because it's been a race. Horses have liked to seen in the champion chase. All the Gold Cup resort this race like vitor of love to see him go for the Gold Cup that year. But this is this a genuine excited about and we've got three horses emf road on in plutarch. The caridi make this race a top top draw on it last year. He's going to be with Brian wearing his heartlessly yet. Again and then. The two are challenges men ridden differently. This time on a plutot who was so impressive when winning the novice handicap. Chase here La de Charlie. I'm GONNA give you first frode on if he puts in the same round that he put in last year is he going to be the one to be or is this just a higher class. He's up against a couple of better opponents. Personally I'm not saying. He called win and does he have a challenge. Yeah cousy does. He loves the track. I think he's going to be happier. Going back. Left. Handed like you say strove of a fantastic relationship with brawny frost and it'll be a real crowd pleaser on the is going to happen personally. The Irish two main contenders. I'm going to go with men for me. I think even a fabulous and that you really like to see him. How his day in the sun in this race under yeah? I'd completely agree on with men in this. I think he's the class horse in the race. I think people are saying. He doesn't have very good Cheltenham form when he was second. Algae or twice. That's not bad for me. He's beaten three lengths and a supremo think that was one of the best supremes. We've seen in recent times I think just these days. He looks like he needs to mall so I think the race Bowen Shock. I'm force for like shock on poor soil. After like men in this I told you run locally race just got maybe doom for a bit of toe at key stage as stepping back open trip. I'd like to see them. Make plenty of use of them. Well I think jumps better when they bowl along. I think he actually could upset road on a little bit from potentially I just think he's better than Frodo and let's be fair. He was breathtaking. It Ain't off absolutely brilliant and then back to mile behind them. The show finishes second back up the two and a half. He beats hard line and then back to two mile. He gets beaten. Mush accomplish. Well he he was impressive but he was given a fairly easy lead angry and you could just bold along in front and do what he wants. Whether the thing I can see happening is fraud on min go at it from the front and just set up for Rachel. Black more to come this stalking on a plutot. Yes oppose that could happen. I don't think they'll go. I don't think it's like the Arkle or anything. I don't think they'll be going any mad Gulf. Think they'll just be boat within their means. I'd say men would just sit on the road on stole like Charlie was reading at the form there. I was there on John Durkin Day and he looked beasts. Going into the last and actually rallied again at the back of the last stayed on really well. Then you probably didn't jump as well as could either. I just think I can't understand. Why minutes and favors in this race is distinct to and also what he wants and yeah. I completely agree with the fact that I don't think men has to dominate in. If they're not gonNA quick enough men's GonNa go forward if protons going real. Good Gallon Minch second. Yeah well talking afraid on. He won the race last year. We're going to hear from champion trainer. Paul Nicholls ahead of his chances wrote on is a massive people's horse obviously was a brilliant winner of the race. Last year. Came back to form with a win at Kempton. Last time I've had you raiders. Chances abode retaining his crime this year. Yeah well some very much. Time is Azure is in good form is improved a lot since Kempton. He's much better than happy left-handed very happy. With how come there was a slightly different of Ya? Imagine a mark have a thing to say. But how can those The different this year to the Reina. Mark is nearly impossible to run in in some of these races. We just thought we'd give the didn't work out and he wasn't right at the time anyway and then after Christmas the obvious raised was the Kempton race. Which you could come to chase and with a few not do so much. Surely weaken run on game pass. It ain't punches time with a master words but it really was hoses there are are you. You've got one amol season as Cheltenham and that's what that's really been. His aimed so happy we wear. He is such a formidable partnership with Brian. Frost last year was such a special moment. That Golden Hour. What makes their partnership so strong. And and what makes him so willing to Ronnie? Just CLICK THE REAL. Reason really is not the biggest. She probably quite suited by this morning. Type season needed off really well. He seems to run to her and vice versa. It's just one of them. Things fourth race on the Thursday is the three mile stays hurdle. Now I think we could all be in agreement here Paisley Park. Is he going to retain his crown in? This Day is Huddle. I think he will. Quick Onset Andrew. Yes or no yes and Charlie your four to six grade value value enforce it. I honestly think it is in to figure Boeing money. If this is a race is often one by a dominant force that can win it multiple times and pays part. He's a he's a he's a modern day big bucks but he has a similar sort of credentials. And I think he's very solid definitely could and I can see him winning the race in years to come we're going to speak to his ridenour aiden. How exciting is it to be back on Paisley Park back at Cheltenham back at Cheltenham Festival and the English is the English banker? Does that excite you? I'm yeah yeah it's it's great to be position position that I'm in You know you were all your career to potentially find like this at people don't I'm very lucky very fortunate that I have that I have found him and hopefully so far. It's been it's been great and we're just looking to continue. Continue our own basically favorite for the festival from maradas point of view. I can imagine you so excited about it just looking through the race. What would you flag up as maintains if there are any and how impressed with you with Amazon and his victory the other week? Yeah I like Amazon was very good. And if we don't like the ground is GonNa look very wes. A couple of days gone out looking like a major out. I think it stayed very wet. That would definitely bring him a bit more into the equation. The worried how Amazon's jumping And I'd be what what I would look for. You know in looking against someone. Apparently package will jump well enough in saying that and the on discourse on the two hurdles and basically the last half mile which played to his strengths. Look I I think like everyone else. I'm fairly confident as you. Pack is the best horse in the race. And then you know yourself. Charity to self that can go wrong at is is what is washed. I'm not worried about what is what I think would be could be undoing is he still is three miles. And and however many hurdles to jump wish we'd probably our biggest field around them so if we get the look and running and it goes to it you know he gets and he gets a nuclear Iran round. I think I think he should be. You know I think I think it's very very difficult to be honest. The point so it's it's more than the concern of the pressure the opposition. It's the pressure of just getting things rely on the day on a bank. Collect this ex exactly exactly. We know what to do. individually he. He's beat everything basically. He's in distress You know your body appetite and there's a couple of the Irish ones that he hasn't be put their farm doesn't look up to his but if it goes well on the day and he turns up like he has done for last year and a half. Basically I'm pretty sure he's definitely he's definitely got beat them the Irish challenge. There's obviously a former stayers hurdle winner in the form of Penn Hill. Who's being a little bit differently? This year maybe improving bit with everyone. Would you be in any way concern? Does that? He could maybe season Stalk Paisley Park? Yeah I'm sure I'm sure looking at them. You made the point today that I wrote him a lot. Handier CLEVELAND. I think I think there will be more. Probably people behind me in front of me You know probably for the foreseeable future runs. Because if I was writing against that you'd like to see and try and follow mendenhall after some some sort of weakness from turning in the back of the last and I would imagine Paul Paul Combined U. Penn Hill. Probably WANNA. He wants stairs hurdle. Been with like that so it's ideal for him. You can just ride him to say as you probably should be written and and get to follow me as well so I think that really brings over that you'll have to. You'd have to give huge respect and especially a former stares hard winner really hope you can win the feature on the Thursday but aside from the Thursday other any other horses the writing and have a good. John's just have to see what the handicaps are doing it. There's kind of the open air with the Handicapped. So noisy independence as a freelance. You kind of see river where other jockeys are going so nothing nothing as yet set in stone probably auction wind in the bumper for Roger Tijuana Listen Abreast newbridge last. He's he's a very very exciting are going forward. A. Thanks very much for that and now. I know you're an Irishman but we hope you're going to get the British banker home at the festival will really upset Andrew Blair white sat alongside me. I'd be happy to upset yours for one scenario with on that saying that. I put that on her back on Africa before we go to the next race it was interesting to speak to eight in there and talking about Penn Hill on quantity Penn Hill to finish second to pay. That might be the angle in the race. If you were GONNA PUT UP TO FINISH HIM. We go for under AMITAV. I think he's a very strong. Stare would have a slight doubt about its jumping. Jumping looked brilliant. This year. I've been WANNA Pan Hills biggest fans but it just doesn't look like he's particularly finishing races over three miles. This year on Amazon could well room past few beaten horses. Charlie yea agree. I think Amazon is the young. Should've Horford with bags of potential. I don't think he can beat Paisley but I think he can finish second the fifth race on the first day is the Brown advisory Handicap trace over two and a half miles and this again last year it was won by Saad. Lack a whole couldn't be beaten shared and seem especially around. Show them This year he doesn't run in the race. But there's a few interesting horses we should talk about. I like skeletons. Spirit of the Games. I think he ran a very good brace. Last time I think he was unlucky. Not to find the extra the hill unlucky or is it just one of those horses? I think he doesn't particularly want to go through with us. We'll see I. I like him I think he's A. He's a horse finished third in the race last year behind. Janika onside lack scouted likes to not plots but have have a handicap in mind. This is the target. I think this has been the target for a long time the games I think I can see it all coming together at Cheltenham on the Thursday August race which is being done in the past by horses that are better than handicappers. My worry with spirit of the Games is off. He's a he's a lovely oars. You'd love to have them putting one hundred topper. I don't think there's much room office mark for much maneuver. I wrote to respect one. This raises a grade. One horse to storyteller won. This race is a grade one slash great horse and. I think we've got a future grade. One Horse in here in simply. The bets are off one forty nine and I'd go as far to say. I'd say he'll be a single figure price for the Rhine air next year. I think he's a class of both these three from four over fences the only time you got. It was like Kempton where he just didn't seem to handle the track. Very good form Cheltenham. Beating Imperial Brilliant Johnson the novice handicap on the Tuesday and also at Chepstow earlier this Jerry. B B of Asia Williams's one too big field handicap chase of since the form couldn't be better as being roy is being risen nine panes for his last win. But I still think he's a one sixty or running an air of one forty nine. I I would definitely have to the vets on the shortlist. Because I'm strong Kim Bailey source and obvious handicap chase. I also like supply. I think he he beat spirit of the Games last day. Impeccable round of jumping time. But I think he could again. I think You know I think he's a very very good jump. One of those horses that is not like a standoff outside the wings spectacular but he's so sharp away from fences that's going to be a big asset in a race. This and I would definitely be taking him to confirm the former spirit of the Games. Well I made sure that we spoke to Skelton about this race. I still like one of his two could win it spirit. The games or grange would Dan. You've obviously got a couple of chances. In the brown advisory Grange wooden spirit. The games spirit the game. There's a horse. I quite liked to the race. I will house. He come out of his run last time out and is he is he. He's he's I think he's on a difficult mark but a mark that could be workable if he can improve. Just a slight sly bit is that the case has a good horse to get in these. These festival raises outside. It hosts can women off of high march. Now anything between sort of under forty five hundred fifty plus holds his win. Handicaps those marks because of the sort of compressed weight range so I'm not worried about his mouth and everything else. I'm I'm looking at positives in looking at how well he isn't an and saying he's got great coastal the might be. One of the stove started in hand and histories were in trouble because it clearly hasn't got a study in hand. But what he will does he will run his best and put up his best and I and he will run all the way to the line and run the Lloyd's line while he even seeing him doing that. So you go to bring him into play All races well. Oh I think of epic chance out the two who would you prefer stage are gonNA show you now between a human. How is vital and saw bridget? We back on the spread of the Games Spirit. Gains ran a career. Best religious in the cuffing via. Yes not like Oh ares ares right now because you have the chance that he could. He could be on their own one easily. Do you see either the making up in the future integrated performers. Which sometimes you need to win these races thing that my gone past both of them I think if you ran them in something about compelling choice of level weights one day. They'd probably be third fourth. I think a good is but you. Don't underestimate what you need to get that backstabbing. It's it's it's not as simple as just saying you're GONNA do. It's it's very hot finding that ten pounds from sort of a hundred fifty five two hundred sixty five. The hottest tend to find the six on the Thursday is the day was mas- novices hurdle. All six news going to Willie mullins. Is HE GONNA make seven in a row? I quite like Lamar kice. But we're going to speak to Patrick mullins from the off. Patrick Willie's absolutely shrewd in this race. And he's fond and he's won every single renewal of the race. You can't get much better than that dishes. These few chances I'm one of them is flanked up at the start. The season was lamarcus. Do you think she's got the best chance of your bunch difficult. Trait different trade. And I think he's probably GONNA be better next year. You whatever she does. Her next season will be a bonus for You know she wasn't impressed. Been Limerick socialism profusion on this strong team. Anyway she wanted to chunk of bumper pediatric operas and trump bumper puncher last year. Probably stick turn-ins. We didn't get the hitter. It all just in one. She was just nail amenity in fairyhouse but You know it wasn't much she might be able to turn around. Who will pull right? Patrick is up and decided yet. No okay who would you ride? Ridden Britain Korea Allegra Alexei. She's great one bumper winter. I wrote her first in Cork when she needed and she was second the Tar. That's already tired formularies. Porto quite was so formed up. Could I like I said no? Stick porn taking that race the Markeith and you get the right on. That would do wait. Wait wait a bit less Bush. Let's see what I mentioned the Marquees at the start. But he seemed keen on cool. Review is a fair assessment under. Yeah it seems like I would say you're playing with fire trying to go against Willie mullins in this race. Considering RECCO innocent as we saw last year I think it was his sixth string Beijing. His seventh string in a photo finish in this race. So you have to look at everything he's throwing in within that might ruin well Just slightly again under the radar. Horses Horse Goes Santa Rosa Train. Boy Germany McLaughlin on very good bumper form. Last year was third in the GELDING's bumper daintree and fifth in the point. Just out on boom far behind. Colori INABA cadaverous. He's only been once this year Third in a maiden hurdle plots being boosted since and look ecoed run well Bush as I say I'd be on up some of these Williams cels. The last race on the Thursday is the amateur riders. Kim Your Challenge Cup Handicap Chase. Now I am going to make a case for horse here. I think he's got the best chance of me finding a win on the Thursday. And that's Raven Hill for Gordon Elliott Jamie Colby writhing and I was told a couple of weeks ago that this is Gordon analyst. I bring in the race. Yeah the same time. He settled the market leader in Glen. Low cost factor. I think this is going to win. Have you particularly strong? Fancy Andrew Do Actually. I really like our school. Fitz Henry in this. Iran's off one hundred and forty two seconds to roaring bull in the power of the infamous Jerry Hannan unfortunately the horse in that race and I was speaking to James Known as the brother of Paul and Barry Yard came in the last day after the race and festival where you stopped to a standstill. A to saying this. He'd never felt the horse so good underneath them Think Barry was was pretty sure he would have won and I just think if they got the green light for this race he's obviously JP's coloreds based on prior experience. Obviously JP's horses. On Paul Nolan sources. It will either be Derrick O'Connor or Barrio. Neil Royden them both will be you take either on their brilliant and obviously Derek when the race last year with any second now and I think if as I say if he gets the green to run in this race I think he'll run a big race. I think you both make good arguments for two washes. That have all the right profile. I I'd be following solid jockey bookings in this rob then what I think. I think that is the case of life of our arguments. You know I've I've said basically Raven Hill because of Jimmy Carter because of Derek and to be fair in those guys well that wraps up the Thursday racing right Cheltenham preview. Thank you very much guy so joining me and we hope you listen to the final episode. Tomorrow is the Friday Cheltenham Gold Cup preview on buzzing.

Charlie Post Willie mullins Gordon Elliott Amazon Cheltenham Festival Iran Audie Murphy HARRY FRY Phoenix Andrew Brian Cheltenham Ready Jerry Hannan Asia Williams Paul Paul Cheltenham State Penn Hill furlong Heen
The Categorization of Migration Reality

Future Based Podcast

48:38 min | 5 months ago

The Categorization of Migration Reality

"This is future baseball cost future based is an interdisciplinary philosophy platform. For more information. Visit future bass. Org future based politics is a series of posts by philosopher Flawless like her embrace your conversation about our political institutions topics discussed include how our political institutions are designed and to what extent they can cope with 20% free problems, like climate change inequality polarization and migration but the possible alternatives to our current political institutions look like and what might be the advantages and drawbacks suck today's gas is Professor destitute, It's he's professor of Law and migration at the universe is about University in nightmares, and she specializes in migration and the job markets and immigration law. She was a immigration lawyer and also an honorary judge at the Dutch Immigration Court she authors Exercise chair at the migration Council where she gets advice to the Dutch government on migration issues. She wrote her dissertation on the regulation of the labor migration to the Netherlands after the second world war and very pleased to have her on the show. Welcome to the show tests to the loaner. Thank you very much. I want to start with your dissertation to backtrack a little box to where things started. So after the second world war migration developed obviously here in the Netherlands. And how did it develop. Can you give us some of the more important moments according to you off? Yeah, I think even without zooming in right away on the more historical line, maybe it's good to to start with a statement and my PhD research shows that the relevance of that statement is that migration has been part of European and Dutch fact of life for a long time. So in the history, there's always been dead. Migration and it has a different ways of presenting itself. So in my PhD study, I focused on labor migration to the Netherlands and important thoughts were for instance is the the labor migration from from so-called guest workers. This is a migration that started in the late nineteen forties early fifties where there was a shortage of workers in certain industries. The thing is at the time and that's quite interesting. I think there was also emigration going on. So a lot of Dutch people were stimulated to emigrate for instance to the United States and it was questioned at some point. Why are we sending away people and asking other people come and do the jobs here and the argument was that one was permanent migration. The immigration was permanent, the the immigration the labor migration was temporary job. The people who came as guest workers, hence, the word guest workers. We're going to leave and many of them did that's another thing that is often overlooked about half of them left and and the other half state but this is the balancing between immigration immigration temporary and permanent. Those are key themes in in my research and in in the phog if I'm a another important element was of course free movement within the European Union at that time the the European community that developed over the sixties. So it's very important element of the European Union right now Mobility. It is one of the core reasons for the brexit. But at the time when the agreement was made to allow easy movement of workers, it was the early sixties. It was not that important. So I studied the the archives and the debates and and the Dutch Parliament literature on the development of fact And at the time people will okay. How many people will use this how how important will it be and it has become very important. Although still it is it's not that many people in the EU actually using the right. I'll mention a third element of the Ph.D that I find interesting to note. And that's the topic of Highly skilled migration. I I had a chapter on highly skilled migration on on and how the Netherlands regulated this and today I think that's still a very relevant chapter and development that we've seen when we look at the position of international students in the Netherlands, but also in Europe if we go back in time in the eighties nineties international student migration was a form of development Aid we let people from the global South come here to enjoy our wonderful education and then they had to sign that they would return home. But we're not supposed to stay here. There were supposed to take this Rich knowledge that we gave them to develop their countries of origin and somewhere around the turn of the century. We had a change of heart in this respect and we decided that these people might be very interesting for our labor market. So now it is their countries of origin that I paid their scholarships for them to study here. And then we hope that they will stay here to enrich our labor market. That's a typical well change that at least a beginning of this changes is discussed in the book and more recent work that I've done elaborates on this development further. I think those are three important takeaways from from the Ph.D. And of course just me personally I kept on engaging in this theme makes me think of we just had the ultimate body can push volume which is here in the Netherlands, which is one of the big dog. Dates we have in the Netherlands the government presents its plants and then the parties talk about it. And there was this far-right party. I would consider them for right forum for democracy and their leader Garibaldi presented some statistics very said, well, we have a lot of people coming in to the Netherlands and he said that's huge problem and he was interrupted by that it took from dink a smaller anti-discrimination party points that you're only talking about people coming in. How many people are living? Is it really that big an issue that people are coming to the Netherlands? Maybe you would like to react to that? Yeah. I think that's a that's a very good point to not only look at numbers of people coming in actually in preparation of our talk. I I was also thinking of numbers and I think the numbers that we have are very important to scrutinize because not all dead. Just except we have our complete or tell the story that you might want to be told focusing on on eurostat data. So that's a European Union database on a lot of things down a gray Shannon being one of them. So one of the things that in politics debated is illegal migration that people are always afraid of people are flooding our borders and we can't control them that sort of the language. So what do we know about people who are actually found to be illegally present in the European Union the Euro start over for 2019 says, okay. So there's six hundred thousand people found to be illegally present in the EU and of those is statistics educates 3 and 1/2 thousand in the Netherlands 17 and 1/2 in Belgium out for instance. So what does does this figure tell us it to me? It says a Belgium has apparently a better system in counting who's illegally present. It doesn't tell me anything about em. Is actually illegally present. It's about finding people. How do you measure how do you count? How many money do you put into your government bodies who are supposed to be counting? And then who do they count to to follow up on that? So there's this idea. Okay, nobody's leaving to certain extent. If you look at the people who are not supposed to be here the data that we have does show that there's a failure in returning people who are not supposed to be here. That's so there's there's about five hundred thousand people who are told to leave and if you look at the statistics of people who actually left it's a hundred and fifty thousand. So there's another three-and-a-half hundred thousand Who currently don't leave while somebody has given them an order to leave home. So that's a picture that does worry people. That's the The Irregular side of migration. But what I think the MP of dank was off, Referring to was the people who are here legally and don't stay or return like the international students about half of them return like expats working for multinationals are here for one two three years. But also if you look at second or third generation migrants that the children of the former guests Walker's a lot of them might also not necessarily return to the countries of their parents but move on and touch people leave as well and who's Dutch. That's another thing we might want to talk about because these second and third-generation people are of course Dutch people. So yeah, they they leave and there's quite an interest in leaving again amongst Farmers for instance because they cannot do the scale of farming that they would like to do in the Netherlands. So when you paint a picture about migration, there's this European facts, there's a lot of table But immigrants may be funding our borders and this is in stark contrast when we look at the past because she sets in the 60s 70s, maybe people thought that wasn't that important. Where does when did this mentality change and how how and why did it change as a lawyer a legal scholar? I'm always interested in. Why is the law The Way It Is Dead who's designed it whose interests are Incorporated in this law or policy and what are the effects in practice and of course legal instruments are being used for political reasons as well to send certain political messages and that might resonate two people having an idea that something is or is not a problem. If you look at migration law, there are a lot of different categories of migrants. We've mentioned people are who are illegally present, but how they got here. I didn't mention they a lot of people might have assumed I'm talking about failed Asylum Seekers could be but we could also be talking about International students overstaying their visa. We could be talking about tourists overstaying their Visa or people who are here who are not even supposed or don't need to have a Visa and and and just remain so there's a lot of legal categories wage to start from when you look at people illegally present. That's why I like to draw attention to this categorization is because in the talk of migraines as an issue, politically there is very little differentiation. So we talked about Labor migrants. So who's the labor migrants the pub or we talk about refugees whose a refugee people have an idea that they know but if you start breaking it down, it's a lot of different categories of people with a lot of different rights and obligations and opportunities and barriers to them. Opportunities that are not out in the open when we just talk about Labor migrants. So when does migration or when might it become an issue in in the the public debate wage? I think when we stop being precise on what we're talking about when we don't have the numbers when we we just talk about migration without going back to the numbers off or when we stop asking our civil servants to count because if we don't know what we're talking about and how can you make a sound political statement on your policies and their meaning for a society? And maybe you can look at these different categories. For instance. I'm a citizenship teacher not only a philosophy teacher one question. I often asked my students is we always talk about migrants immigrants come to the Netherlands. Do you think one or the other so their motive maybe is important choice whether or not they deserve certain privileges or not. So does someone who had come to the United because of political reasons deserve more rights and someone who comes to Nana's because of quality and so on who comes here to study maybe you can give you a few a bit on these questions. Yeah. So that question goes through two levels one is what rights should they have which of course or do you think they should have is as as a philosopher? I I see how that is a relevant question. I like to look at what rights people actually have and maybe 210 Stand those rights are limited in a way that they shouldn't be limited because of you know, international human rights Frameworks. So if somebody comes in as a student or as a refugee, let's let's take those two as a comparison. If you come as a student to Europe, there's a European directive that says what your rights are one of those things that you don't have is a right to family reunification as a student. You don't somebody who comes as a refugee and does get status for a protection in the book is entitled to family migration if they apply for family migration within 3 months of getting their status. They actually get facilitated family migration less competition Supply. They don't have to prove that they have sufficient income to support their family for instance because we don't expect them to be able to have such resources for the first three months after Obtaining their status. So there we have the the the human rights discourse where we say. It's a human right for the refugee to be reunited with their family and build a new life together within our borders and that's actually language taken from the family reunification directive also an EU instruments stimulating family immigration, which a page that says having a family is a very important element having your family with you helps you integrate. So the fact that students are not entitled to family migration off of shows how we hang still on the old notion that students are only here temporarily and are supposed to return and the new notion is that we actually want to keep them. But if we want to keep them if you want to integrate them is strange that we don't allow them to have their families with them. So they have different rights when they arrive if we continue when you talk of citizenship of the right to remain calm Since students the periods that they day in in European country count the years count perhaps so student who has been here for four years can take two of those years of words permanent residents, which has to be a total of five years a refugee right now has to wait for five years and then they're eligible for permanent residence home, but very interesting thing of the migration pact is that it suggests that in the future people who have received protection should actually be eligible for permanent residence after 3 years. So in that sense, they will be more deserving of more secure residence. It's not citizenship yet. That's a national prerogative side who get citizenship but long-term residents. That's the right under EU law and now the pact suggests while students have to wait double time refugees job. Should wait less years three years might be sufficient for them to be eligible for permanent residents. So in law, we make these distinctions and there's political reasons behind that economic social but all sorts of reasons why we make these kind of decisions on entitlements what I thought you're talking about your observation that I were to offer levels in my question was that you said, well, there's this distinction between what price migrant should have and what rights they do have and we're focusing on what they do have. I think there's also a level of what they should have in there. I immediately thought about the contribution you made to the public debates when there was a discussion about migrants working in the meat industry in the Netherlands, they work here and they work really hard under dire circumstances and I believe you suggested. Well, maybe we should improve those circumstances. Is that correct? Yeah. Issue became more obvious because of the covid-19 crisis, but it's actually yeah, it says say an issue that has been here for for far longer the group of people that we are probably talking about but this is something I'm still embarking on Research to study further who we're talking about but it's likely that most of them are you Nationals game while I was previously talking about International students and refugees. Those are people from outside the EU coming to the EU but when we talk about the people we see worth for instance in in the meat industry. It's probably EU Nationals as you Nationals, they have citizenship of the European Union and that's a strong set of Rights. They have a right to free movement as workers. They can take up a job anywhere in the EU. That's a very strong position. The other Third Country Nationals can can usually not move that easily, but although they have a dog Strong right to move to work elsewhere that doesn't say that they know what rights they have as a worker in the place of destination. So having a strong legal status within the EU doesn't necessarily mean you have a good access to your rights. And I think if we look at what happened in the meat industry during the covid-19. Wage for what we know right now what became clear is that a lot of the workers were seconded through employment agencies and there are a lot of employment agencies who have tried their best to take good care of their workers, but there is a small group of agencies who don't care that much but care about making money at the cost of workers and what you see is that workers through the employment agencies are placed a different plants and the plant owner doesn't really know who's working in their plant. They hardly have the name. Don't know where the people sleep. They they know the agencies they work with but they have sort of outsourced responsibility for their workers and that creates a situation where I'm at least in in some segments of the labor market. Nobody feels responsible for these workers. And as a response result, we had Romanian my co-workers. Yeah working in the Netherlands or in Germany or crossing the border up and down at Great risk for for infection in the in their place of work. Nobody felt responsible of informing them or information that was out. There wasn't available in a language accessible to them. I think I think on government websites by now half a year later we have information at least name and some government websites also have your information in other languages, but the first press conferences there was not a little Banner on your screen saying do you want information in a rabic poem? Rumanian, please visit this website know in part the Dutch government at least and the beginning failed to inform widely, but I must also add what exactly happens is something that we're going to study for the next two years because we received a grant from from the Dutch research Council to actually look into this but your conclusion is at the moment is that migrants they have rights, but they aren't always aware of their rights and how to defend them and there's maybe a responsibility for the government to better inform those migrants. Yes. I think that's a that's a good summary. Although you could question whether it's always the government who's responsible. So I think it's a very important thing that we talked about who is responsible for properly informing co-workers. It could also be the agency's it could be the plants where they're working. So there's a wide group of actors involved and there's this problem a limited to those. Who birth In a lower paid jobs or do highly skilled migrants for instance also faces kind of problems. Yeah. That's that's that's a good point and I would say yes or skilled migrants could well face similar problems. Of course the kind of work that they do is likely to differ. So what the meat plants physically have them will work close to each other. If you're an IT specialist working at a back you were probably working from home as of March 2020. So then this month's special distancing wasn't that much of an issue. So highly skilled migrant workers often office workers would be less at a risk in that respect. What we did see is that they were at risk for unemployment because a lot of companies had to let people go and if you have to let people go possibly it was he's that were too long. Leave first I haven't seen the data on this. So this is typically something and I've seen you do that in your your previous blogs where you ask? Okay? What should we investigate for future? I think investigating into the impact of the covid-19 pandemic on high skilled migration is very needed and I I would suppose that I skilled migrant workers might be the first to be laid off because they may be as well armed aware of their rights or because maybe or bath Nation because if they're highly skilled, why would why won't you keep them and maybe sect the Dutch employees good point indeed being knowledgeable of their rights is I think one issue I think language although I mean we're speaking English right now. We're teaching English a lot of stuff is happening in English. Netherlands, I still think that learning Dutch is an absolute necessity to be successful on the Dutch labor market or as an entrepreneur in the Netherlands. You need to have at least some basic knowledge of the language and I would say newcomers be a refugees b a r r Romanian workers in in the meat plants be at our India. Next month should all be offered language courses for free. This is this is so important for creating a society for for being together living together to share at least a basic knowledge of a language and it's not being done. I mean the Indian it people don't have to learn the language. They're Exempted from all the integration courses Etc refugees from migrants. We force and we're allowed to force them. So again these categories I was talking about earlier with the different rights. They have at the different obligations here. You see a very clear example of the dog Rights and obligations with regard to learning the language and some are not don't have to and others if you feel sanctions for not learning the language and I would suggest offer everybody more prominent and free access to language courses. You mentioned labor market discrimination only just yesterday. There was a report on on Research showing that people with a migration background, especially people with the so-called non western migration background have experienced covet or have experienced less job opportunities or have been laid off more during covid-19. At least a lot of people in the Netherlands are people of migration background. So if you read that highly skilled people with a migration background experience trouble discuss, whatever this could very well be people with a Dutch passport. And if that's not elaborated again, my point was the message you're trying to convey if you're not making that distinction, so when I talk about highly skilled migration like the Indian ICT, these are people with a non non citizens will experience all kind of trouble. If you talk about people with a migrant background, you might just be talking about Dutch people and as a migration lawyer, that's a very important distinction to make yeah, I guess it's also as a philosopher because then it doesn't make it a problem with migrants, but the problem a Dutch problem a Dutch citizens. Yeah. I want to take you back a little bit to the example. We just discussed about the people working in the meat industry birth. And for those listeners who aren't aware of this the Netherlands is second only to the USA in the export of meat. So it's a huge industry here in the Netherlands. And you said well, a lot of them immigrants aren't aware of their rights and I'm not sure where I read it but I read an article where they interviewed immigrants working in the meat industry and they said they were aware of their rights, but they were afraid of talking about it addressing it because they were afraid of being laid off being sick because of being too critical. So it's a problem with the rights and how aware people are of the rights or maybe there are also other factors, which should we should take into can maybe class or thoughts are categories, which aren't necessarily feasible when we talk about rights. Yeah. That's a good point. And I think I said when we talked about responsibility of informing people of their rights dead. I said that there's a white group of actors that that is responsible and a linking to talking of who's responsible. It's of course also gets the point do migrant workers know who to turn to and indeed here right if they why they didn't report in sick is because if you are off working for an employment agency and you report in sick, you are less protected under the law than if you would be a full worker employed by a plant where you'll be working. So and that is again in our law on on the working for employment agencies where where this is loud. Also employment agencies are responsible in most cases for housing for transport. So there's multiple dependencies on this one agency. If you report in sick, you don't just lose your work and your income but you also lose your housing. So yes, you're right. It makes people afraid to to report and sick and especially in a pandemic. I would say that that would immediately require action to prevent that people continue going to work out of fear of the consequences of calling in sick, which means there should be some sort of I don't know precautionary measure through a fund through separate housing provided for those who fell sick Etc, but we were slow in in setting up safeguards and Knots just to safeguard the migrant workers. We're talking about you are also talking about your own communities where they live where they shop where they commute through. We were well astonished that it took quite some time for this risk to be to be addressed and still I guess it could be more there's more to be done to addresses and if I met you you're in, Georgia. Action to the question to talk about this again was also to to the listeners you mentioned well Europe but the US exports more meat. So we're 20 seconds of the US thought well, yeah, and we're a very small country so that that sort of yeah, we're packed with with animals in a way, but that's a different that's a question at a different level. So so we've been talking about them the migrant workers and their rights and and their fears but you could also wonder why we have decided not to allow for this sector to be this large if it is a sector that is so heavily relying on migrant labor to to perform this this huge production. So that's also something that strikes me when I look at the European packed. Obviously. I have a superficial understanding of it. But when I look at how migration as a team is in a cast and the policy that Europe has on it it also has to be a maybe I'm totally wrong here, but it seems a bit super superficial there used to be quote a life. There aren't quotas anymore. We just talking about migration in abstract sense. And even now there's a lot of critique for instance from Hungary the Czech Republic Poland wage. They say yeah, that's an improvement. We don't have to look at quotas and we'll just send those migrants way, but it would even be better if we wouldn't have to send them. That way we should be clear and not allow any migrants in all seems a little bit too superficial when you don't take too into account economics the rights of these people. Yeah, I agree that. There's a lot of Border talk in the packed. It's a lot of of of borders and a lot of externalizing our borders and engage our partners International Partners the neighborhood in being our external Border guard. But if you if you go through the first paragraph of The Pact there's also mention of the need for Innovation the need for for a migrants for economic reasons, then demographic development in the home means we're actually a shrinking population and if we want to keep up product produce based on the same number of employees, we actually need my God it's and that's that's actually in the opening of of the the opening paragraph. So superficial my understanding is yeah now that's okay. That's okay because if you read on it's it's a lot of Border talk. So in that sense, you're right, but I picked up on the little links that it does give for say the economic needs seeing the economic need of the EU for migration and it is not addressed one that I really like is what I said at the beginning is that in the future. One of the things it proposes is that people who receive protection package Fugees will be eligible for a long-term residence permit after 3 years instead of five years. It also says that in the future it would like to change this right to include a right to be Mobile in the EU meaning that if somebody gets Refugee status in Italy and after 3 years gets a permanent resident status off. If they find a job elsewhere in the EU, they can go elsewhere to perform that job. So they they become more about like U citizens have Mobility rights home. I find that a positive one and I find that from an economic perspective a wise change because it increases the the workforce across Europe without having to ask people from Africa to to come here for work reasons know there are already plenty of people here possibly to actually perform jobs instead of asking people to come from further away to prefer perform those jumps. Okay? Yeah, and there are there any talk about quota anymore. It used to be so did the idea was that there should be a just allocation of refugees in one country and in the other country and they shouldn't all be in Italy and Greece for instance and obviously off. Re also Austria were highly critical of it. We are also critical of quote. I believe maybe you could also tell the listeners while you're critical of quota home. Yeah, but my my critique on quota is on a on a different level different type of quota, although maybe some of the general issues can be copied into to the refugee quota talk. The thing with quota is in general whether we talk about refugees or labor migrants or or otherwise is that they send a message again. They it's a number a number sent a message and people have the feeling that something is in control or out of control because of the number phone numbers are not always filled. So so if you say okay, we're getting a hundred people but these hundred people need to qualify such a such a such it might mean that only forty people qualified but Idea is hundred. Although in fact, it might be 14. But if there is four hundred people who fit this qualification, maybe with less political upheaval a quota will be raised and it might actually be a hundred or two hundred or three hundred people coming and I basis on we talked about my PhD in my PhD I I mapped the quota talks on on guest workers coming to the Netherlands and first it was forty and then business is knocked on the door of government as a whole but we need a hundred. Okay, so that you get sixty more it was it was never set in stone. How many people would actually come and if business wanted more the the quota were raised we've seen something similar more recent with Asian Chefs totally different category haven't mentioned them yet, but we have across Europe a lot of countries. Have specific policy to recruit Asian Chefs because Asian Cuisine is apparently something that we either cannot do property or people want work in in Asian restaurants. Whatever. I know Sweden has a separate policy. Germany has separate policy. We the Netherlands have a policy on our chefs Club used to have quota for Chef's but then if the quota was full but one of the big fancy Asian restaurants still needed to cook the the quota was raised and maybe another example on quota Europe has a policy on seasonal migrant labor seasonal workers from outside, the U Europe allows all the member states to have volumes mission is how they call it quota. So the Netherlands said, okay, so we'll have seasonal workers quota zero. We don't want people from outside the EU to work in our seasonal job. Doctors yeah, that's what was political debate was Zero. It was never made into law. We don't have a long saying zero but nobody applies because nobody studies them all people. Remember the debate know think it's zero because it was how it was debated but there is there's no law saying you can't apply. So according is also something in the mind. Yeah. It's awful image then it's reality is it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah ties into famous saying by Jacques delors who's one of the most important politicians in New York in project to European union and he says when people politicians here come to European Union, they talk about things and then in the media, they say something completely different and the idea of when you looked after people will respect to more you will get more votes for instance and dropped or cause that Memphis my French, isn't that great but better job Education to the people because the finger signaling is well migration is a problem when in reality, you know, it isn't a problem. You're just acting like it's a problem. So you look tough and like a good position for your people. Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't have said it better and this ties into another topic. I wanted to discuss with you because in in our preparation we talked about the migration crisis wage. I used the term migration crisis and you reacted. Well, maybe you're talking about 2015. But according to me and never really was a migration crisis. So I think that would be the listeners would want to know more about that. Well, I think you actually just to some extent summed it up. What we've seen is that bureaucracies were not prepared to receive the Syrian refugees. We knew what was happening in Syria, so you could have seen it coming that there would be some people from Syria off. Who might not like to stay there? So you could prepare for that. You could have a bed's ready for them. You could you'd scale up your reception centers wage scale up the staff if if this is something that you can prepare for you can have some spare beds ready at all time. And of course there's a balance you can't have spare bedrooms ready all the time for a hundred thousand people because and that's that's relatively costly but you could think of okay. What what is the reasonable number of spare beds that we should have available for reception centres in case of emergency. So I would say the crisis was not so much migration, but the crisis was reception again, who is responsible. It's not a migration crisis. It's a bureaucracy Christ as a management crisis of not wanting to see and manage to obvious developments in dead. Migration into the EU or into the Netherlands. So we have the capacity if we would prepare to forsake migrants in but we we do not prepare. Yeah, we're a very well organized country. We have a very large population who is very welcoming to migrants. And I mean, once the the Syrian refugees arrived, I think the reception centers were equally flooded by volunteers and toys presented by kids who wanted to share their our life are with the newly received refugees. And you also often see that people, you know, first protest. We don't want to Reception Center for refugees, but once they're they're home a couple of years later if the center is closed people are actually sad that they're leaving. We're good ABS organizing things. We're good at welcoming. Before we go to for the recommendations. I have some statements which I think at least it seems like a lot of people believe in them and maybe you could debunk them because I think they are false. So one of them is most migrants enter by the Mediterranean Sea on the rubber boats. Yeah. Most migrants come. Well one. What is a migrant? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, too. I think most people fly in with a Visa or because their visa free travel like labor migrants family migrants and when I talk about family migrants, most of them are the family members of Dutch people if we look at the Netherlands and I could go on false. Yeah dying down that maybe most migrants come to the Netherlands or Europe because of poverty probably too superficial at least. Yeah. Definitely I mean cause for nuance but for instance the People who live in true poverty across the globe don't have money to migrate. It is a very costly trip across Iran or Iraq turkey Afghanistan wherever people come from. Maybe maybe I wanted to make a recommendation for for further reading in this respect. It might be very good to get a read gun Island from amitav Ghosh and Indian Arthur and to answer the question on who and what does it cost to sit in one of these rubber boats took the Mediterranean. It's definitely not the most poor. Well, maybe the last statement I have here is migration is a threat and that may did we did we didn't talk about culture that we talked about who is Dutch so dead ties into it and that might complicate things but it's migration as threats. I think that's a very personal experience. I don't experience it as a threat. But like I said, I have a migration background myself. I enjoy the cultural experience of exchange with people with different cultures. I think a lot of people other ones like to eat Chinese food pasta is definitely on the table in most houses once a week and we we we can thank our Italian guest-worker for bringing us pasta. So I see migration as a fact and as a richness of culture, I think I learned a lot about migration and I hope the listener also no matter back migration, but what if they want to learn more about migration, do you have three things you would recommend to them to maybe read or watch to learn more about migration or other topic we discussed. Yeah first on the center for migration law of which I'm the director are sent Research Center in in migration we have on our website a liquid. To a lot of movies books Clips Etc on migration. So I would advise anybody who wants to know more about it to scroll scroll through that and watch some of the movies documentaries et cetera on the same level of of more general information. I've mentioned Long Island. There's two other novels that I I've read the past years that I love their angle to migration. They're both by John Lancaster one is capital and the other one is the wall and they both indirectly discuss the impact of migration. So that's on a on a more General note. I've talked a little bit about data about numbers and about policies. I love the work by having the house on these matters. So people dead. Want to study more of the numbers and of the effects of policies should definitely look into his work. He's a professor of Sociology at the University of Amsterdam and about Industries and how they're organized the economics of how we want to produce what it is that we are needing. So and that's I think a global issue that the pandemic has really put out there that we need to think of trade relations production processes. Why do we need to eat so much meat as we do change and to go back to that example, I'm a vegan so I would say none but okay, so I have quite some family members were a vegetarian and needles a vegan but that's an interesting thought. Why is that not coming across more strongly that we can change? A little bit of the world as consumers and how does that interrelate with migration and migrant rights? Because I think there's a very strong relation there and we're not seeing it or not looking at it long enough yet. Yeah, of course with my own research. I hope to contribute to a better understanding of these inter relations. Yeah, more understanding and focus on the interrelations and the complexities of immigration. Yeah. Yeah, sounds good. I thank you for this very interesting conversations. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm good luck with the series. For more information about the research of tested Allama links recommendations research Information Services and show notes. Please visit future based. Or if you have inquiry or want to comment on this podcast, please feel free to reach out to Flores at Flores at Future bass. Org.

the Netherlands EU Dutch government Europe 20% Dutch Immigration Court migration Council Dutch Parliament one two three years Belgium five years Dutch research Council Garibaldi 3 years United States Shannon migraines Nana baseball Walker
Acting CFPB Director Uejios Blog Post on Consumer Complaint Responses and Potential Racial Disparities: Is Your Companys Handling of Complaints Ready for Scrutiny by the New CFPB?

Consumer Finance Monitor

44:15 min | Last month

Acting CFPB Director Uejios Blog Post on Consumer Complaint Responses and Potential Racial Disparities: Is Your Companys Handling of Complaints Ready for Scrutiny by the New CFPB?

"Welcome to the consumer finance monitor podcasts. Where we explore important new developments in the world of consumer financial services. And what they mean for your business your customers and the industry. I'm alan complaints ski. And i'll be moderating our program today And then just a moment. I will be introducing to you My two colleagues From ballard spahr That are gonna be Joining me today I let me mentioned The the topic that we're going to focus on today It's another cfp be related topic because Our clients want everything. They want to learn everything they possibly can about. These so-called news cfp That is going to be led by bro. He chopra as soon as he gets confirmed and sworn in as the next director of the. Cfe in the meantime He's got his proxy There i think pretty much By the name of david way geo- Used to be involved in strategic planning at the cfe be and is now acting director of the cfpb debate. So let me First of all tell you we're gonna focus on a particular blog That god polished by david. Wage gio And the title of the blog is consumers and their experiences to be at the foundation of cfp bb policy making. it was the third. Blog is posted He is certainly not acting as caretaker for rohit chopra He's very much Operating is if he is going to be the director or acting director for an indefinite amount of time And we're going to focus. On some things he had to say about the complaint bordeaux of the cfp. Be but i before we get there I'd like to tell all our listeners today. About a new. Cfp be reading a service Which offers customized readiness reviews for each type of entity subject to see pb supervision and enforcement jurisdiction We recently Our should we did a one webcast on this topic and actually to webcasts on this topic And would certainly commend that you. Listen to these webcasts Which are available to you so our new readiness reviews are based on our study of what i'm calling the news. Cfp beat the recent blogs that have been published by david geo other statements written by a david way geo- director Nominee row. He'd shoppers extensive track record during his first tenure at the cfp be and his opinions and other statements while serving as an ftc. Commissioner As well as a not very well known covid nineteen whitepaper co-authored by former former. Cfp director richard cordray. Who was a guest. On one of our reason webcast our readiness reviews are designed to provide you with the insights concerning how ready your institution is for stepped up supervision and enforcement of the consumer financial protection laws by the cfp Or if you are getting close to the ten billion dollar threshold that had fists for off depository institutions. What to expect when you're supervised by the cfp be the results of these reviews and we've already been heavily involved in helping our clients Prepare for these reviews because during the last four years While the he didn't go away. I think we would all agree that things were a little more relaxed M maybe some of our clients and others in the industry were a little lax in adhering to the standards that were required during the richard cordray regime so We felt this is the time The to gear up again for this new what. We expect to be very energetic Am very aggressive supervision and enforcement. So let me now. Introduce are My guest today. Were my colleagues first of all. I want to introduce. Laurie summerfield Laurie while she's fairly new to ballard spahr she is by no means new to the consumer financial services industry She has he is definitely a season. Consumer financial services attorney has over two decades of legal and regulatory compliance experience working for the fdic working For another for want mention the name what may cause competitor laurie and Working as deputy general counsel tci bank and finally joining us a little more than a year ago and she works out of our minneapolis office. And it's also my pleasure to introduce to you. Chris willis who is Very often on these podcasts in often is a moderator himself. Chris is now the coach share of the consumer financial services group Along with mark for laddy chris Devotes a lot of his practice. He's the litigator by background but a lot of his practice is focused on c. p. enforcement matters representing dozens and dozens of companies one. Fortunately have been subjected to either formal action by The enforcement division of the cfpb e or have run into problems on the examinations so first of all welcome lori and Welcome chris it's great to be here. Thanks allan allan good to be here. Okay all right. I'm going to Focus on my by questions Direct my questions to you. Laurie And then chris. I invite you You know jain in with respect to each of the questions that i'm gonna see Direct alarming So tell us first of all laurie before. Actually get to the questions. What is it that acting director wage about complaints. He seemed not to be happy. Is that a good way to put it. He wasn't pleased with the industry. Why is that right. well The acting director basically said that There has been a pattern of stone companies that they have not been timely responding to consumer complaints and also there have been reports from some consumer advocates that are unspecified that there have been disparities in the way that Financial services companies have responded to complaints Coming from those from the black brown and indigenous communities basically two things is unhappy with the thinks. That companies are have not been responsive. There are certain deadlines right You have to You get a complaint From the bbc some consumer rights and What do you have. Fifteen days laurie. Yes that's correct. Fifteen calendar days to provide an initial response to the consumer and the complaint has to be fully resolved within sixty days. Okay so apparently. Some companies are not meeting those deadlines. But what have you determined. Laurie In terms of companies have been doing have they have they been lax. Why why the complaint year. I've been following this issue since the inception of the in two thousand and eleven and in my view Us financial services companies that are regulated by the cfp be take consumer complaints very seriously and the bureau's own data has shown over the years that between ninety five to ninety eight percent of all companies respond to of the pb in a timely manner. So in fact the own website currently indicates that ninety seven percent of all companies currently provide timely responses to us to be much higher than that. Or i mean that seems like a pretty high percentage Could you tell Whoever that that used to be ninety nine percent. Or is there any way to figure that out while i haven't tracked it that closely but initially when the Copd started tracking complaints The timeliness response was lower. So i think over time it's actually been increasing its main it may be ticked down a little bit recently. But you know it would seem to me that if there's any companies that are slow to respond it's really a small fraction of only two three percent of all companies that are subject the bureau's jurisdiction. That's strange it seems like at least in. So far as timely is concerned He's making jace mountain out of a molehill What do you think chris do. You think there's anything to that complaint. It looks to me. Like the data doesn't support the contention that there's a widespread failure by industry participants to respond to complaints. You know the data that lori cited ninety seven percents at timely is obviously very telling and honestly very reflective of my own experience. I mean the clients. I work with pay a lot of attention to see if bb complaints and take very seriously the the deadline for responding to them. Okay so. I'm wondering the real reason for the blog was not so much The companies that are not taking him seriously not Responding in a timely manner but rather the feeling that companies are not being as generous In responding to complaints are submitted by black brown and indigenous people I mean it seems like that may be the the real problem. So what does he say he makes some off a reference to the fact. That there's kind of discrimination going on here He didn't he wasn't specific at all. My right lori. He just he just level the charge. That's correct and you know again. There's this reference to these consumer advocates studies. Which again are unspecified. But we do know that there have been a few studies that have been issued over the years since the cfpb was stood up in two thousand. Eleven of let's hear about that lori. What so you have done some of your own research on this and These we don't know for sure that this is a Acting director way. Joe's relying a bomb but we think he might be against. That's correct. yes. So i did a little bit of research to just try to get a better handle on what he might be alluding to and you know first of all there have been various consumer advocacy groups studies over the years that have alleged disparities in the way that companies handle complaints for example the national community reinvestment coalition issued a study in two thousand thirteen that alleged that people in minority communities were more likely to submit complaints to the pb than those in predominantly white areas and banks were more likely to address concerns of consumers from those predominantly white areas rather than Minority neighbor. So that's just an example of the types of you know allegations that consumer advocacy groups have leveled. But there's also been A couple of actually have been several academic studies. But they're really only been two that have used the pb. Complaint database impure coal research and both of those are fairly recent Both of those studies found disparities and outcomes in response times so one is actually very recent it was just issued a here in january twenty twenty one called the financial restitution gap in consumer finance insights from complaints filed with the see of pb and the authors were from boston college. There's another academic study called color and credit Reese regulation and the quality of financial services and this is by two professors. His name taylor begley and another named amitav turnham. I hope i pronounced that correctly. That came out in a twenty twenty so I talk about the boston. College study I think it was unique because it looked at whether there are disparities in the outcomes of consumer complaint efforts aided by regulators to seek financial restitution disputes with financial services. So that's not an issue that has been very much To my knowledge in the past at all so based on their analysis of information that was bound was the appease consumer complaint database the authors found that on average consumers receive financial restitution in approximately five percent of filed complaints and consumers from low socioeconomic areas are significantly less likely to receive financial restitution so that was quite interesting complaints from low income zip codes zip codes that have a larger share of african. American population are about thirty percent. Less likely to receive financial restitution than complaints that are coming from high income areas or Neighborhoods that have low. African american shares based on The author said that among some of the plausible explanations for the disparities were Support their hypothesis. At least that political preferences of the executive branch affect how conciliatory financial services providers are toward consumers file so complaints filed during the trump administration. Were thirty percent. Less likely overall to result in restitution than during the obama administration and there was also a reduced propensity to receive financial restitution significantly larger for low socioeconomic ingredients and according to the authors this reduction in financial restitution began around the time of Donald trump's election rather than when mick mulvaney became a acting copd director so the authors dave at that suggests that financial services providers anticipated that the trump administration would be more industry-friendly and responded to the election by becoming less stoker's even though the st appease leadership hadn't yet changed as you'll recall richard cordray was stole the director. Cfp p. for some time so this demonstrates at least to the authors that companies change their behavior depending on their expectations of regulatory enforcement rather than it actually happening But even in their own study the authors stated that there was the a limited sort of nature to the data and that prevented them from from drawing any definitive conclusions And so one thing. I just want to mention here. It is important to note that the b doesn't collect any sort of protected class information when they accept a complaint that's filed by a consumer so they're not collecting things like raised Mississippi so as a result all these studies have to rely on proxy data. And as we know oxy's are inherently unreliable and so as a result you know they're having to take Consumer addresses or zip codes that are in these complaints and then match them to census data to then try to determine Racial and social economic demographic data as also important to know that the pd database only contains summary blade. So sometimes a full zip code is shown other times. There's only the first three digits so here again. You know in the reason for that. I assume has to protect that individual's privacy but you know again. There is some data here and the only other Demographic type of data that's available on the consumer database is that there is a flag or indicator whether a complainant is elderly or whether he or she is a member of The military or a veteran dough That's that's one of the limitations of of this boston college study and it's also limitation of the next study that i'm gonna talk about and that's the color of credit study that came out the year before twenty twenty so in the colored credit study the researchers looked at the quantity versus quality tradeoff in consumer financial services that hasn't been widely studied or understood either the study we just talked about In this case the authors looked at instances of fraud misspelling in poor customer service for mortgage products does it was nearly focused on one type of consumer product. They took a look at cfpb consumer complaints over the period. Two thousand twelve through two thousand sixteen because they said that was the largest category of planes app time at that time mortgages really represented the largest category of complaints and there's the single largest financial transaction for most consumers as we all so the authors found substantially more complaints and zip codes with lower than average income and educational attainment as well as higher percentages minority populations. The also discovered that the effect of high minority status and complaints was up to three times higher than the effect of low income reg- asian as it related to the authors concluded based on their findings that although the quantity of financial products and services has increased over time. the quality of the offerings are much lower for lower income minority borrowers so the researchers say their findings suggest that regulators should consider the effect of regulation on the quality of financial institutions services. That are offered to understood customers particularly in areas with higher minority population last. I'm just going to quickly touch on an ftc. Study that came out in two thousand. Eighteen was by gentleman named All and he looked at a bigger database included. Copd group pointed at which as we all know is the consumer sentinel database and that includes complaints that are filed with the ftc copd. And the better business bureau as well as federal and state enforcement agencies so in general that. ftc's study found. That complaints can vary across Which should not be surprising to anyone. At all the civically though the author found that higher complaint rates In more heavily black college educated and urban communities were found whereas there were lower complaint rates found in heavily hispanic and higher household size unit. The demographics of the complaints were different though for the of with much. Higher rates of complaints were black in college educated areas compared to the ftc or the better business bureau and the study also found that there were much higher rates of finance related complaints from black though the authors explained that these differences and complaint rates across areas communities could be explained by the nature of that is because the cfpb primarily deals with financial issues the complaint submitted to the bureau obviously had a higher incidence of financially related complaints and the author Revolve also suggested that further policy work would be needed in this area to understand. How complete rates might also relate to victimization. don't other words which segments of the population were actually the victim of things like predatory lending and the light dough You know. I think these are all very interesting studies and looking at different facets of consumer complaints. But you know as i previously mentioned. They all rely on summary data from the pb as well as The analysis was conducted using proxy data. So i don't think it really represents solid bureaucrat Thank you laurie. chris. I'm wondering What you think about the The the the quality of the studies. I know you've got a lot of work. Like lori has in the area with the dealing with disparate impact and strikes. Me at the data doesn't look great but but the studies since they don't know who is really black brown or an indigenous person and they're just using zip coding or partial zip codes and comparing it. The census data It may or may not be representative. Well there's two things to talk about with regard to the validity of these studies. One of them is the one that you in laurie. Just mentioned which is in order to figure out if there's discrimination going on that runs along a protected class line like race ethnicity or anything else you have to figure out who's in what group and the point that lory made in which you just reinforced is in the cfpb. Complaint data the ability to determine who's in what group is even more hampered than with a typical non mortgage credit product. Where at least you have the person's exact address And full name here. You don't have that at all. So the inaccuracies inherent in the s g proxy methodology. Which is what the bureau uses for non mortgage fair lending Analyses are exacerbated. I think by the the lack of information the complaint portal. But there's another very important element that's missing here to when when the pb or other regulators do fair lending analysis to figure out if there's discrimination with respect to a certain type of decision or action or whatever. The the decision maker has to introduce control. Variables that will control for the legitimate nondiscriminatory reasons. Why a decision may come out differently. So for example. If you're looking at underwriting you don't just throw everybody into the same analysis and say well white people did better than african american people. So there's discrimination rather you would control for things related to credit worthiness like credit score and amount of down payment or income or other things. That should legitimately bear on a creditors decision. And only when you control for those and you still see a difference. That's attributable to the protected. Characteristic will the regulator reach a conclusion that something's a miss. That may indicate discrimination here. If you're trying to figure out about if there's discrimination in the timeliness or outcomes of complaint responses fraught by financial institutions in the cfpb puerto surely there are legitimate nondiscriminatory reasons. Why those things may vary so for example. Let's say you have to complaints. And one person very specifically identifies. What his or her relationship is with the creditor is and the other one doesn't provide any identifying information and it takes a long time to figure out who that person is and what their account is and what happened one of them therefore may take longer to respond to than the other but the study doesn't control for stuff like that likewise with respect to the outcome of a complaint there may be some where the outcome is very easy to figure out And others where. It's much more complicated. You have to unravel a series of transactions and figure out what happened and then decide whether something was amiss or not but of course. There's no effort at any of these studies to control for that because frankly it would be impossible to do so. And so what we're left with is the authors just taking a bunch of raw data and saying here are raw differences but never ever in the history of fair lending testing have raw differences. Made a case of discrimination and the cfp knows better than that because the c uses controls for these types of announce chip While the other thing too. I found interesting. Why didn't the cfp cfp be conducted its study. I mean it's relying on apparently What worked at other people have done. They didn't even identify the studies. We've we had it were We did our own research. And you know where We you know we believe. We been able to identify the studies. Why don't you just do it. Why didn't they do the study. What do you think rose. Well the fair lending people at the cfp know how to do a proper study. They do it all the time. But the point is they don't have the data to do a proper study and control for the things that need to be controlled for to reach valid conclusion on this data. So you know. And if the cfp Beaded itself the particulars of the study would be open to public view in public comment Just like its use of the g methodology was and. I don't think it'd be done. Probably what do you think of the other point. That was made him one of the studies that during the cordray era Companies were being more generous in Providing monetary relief to consumers were complaining than they were during the trump era In general zapped you'd think Anymore valid now to reach. It's it's definitely a more valid point to reach because it doesn't rely on. You know the sort of control and proxy issues. That that laurean you and i were just talking about. And it's possible that companies started off the pb complaint portal when it was brand new and when the agency was brand new by being more generous and providing remediation when frankly it wasn't required When they're nothing had been done. I have clients who provide remediation through the cfpb portal. All the time when there isn't a isn't an actual violation just as a matter of customer goodwill and it may be that his company's got greater experience and saw what their experience was with on the complaint portal. They started providing remediation only when there was an actual chance of illegal violation so companies have adjusted their risk tolerance over time. There's nothing nefarious about that. So let's talk in general now about consumer complaint data Why why is it important. Kraus i mean why. Why should companies care about this whole area. Well the thing is complaint data has always been incredibly important to the cfpb under all of its leadership so complaints have formed the basis for policy research that the cfp does complaint data has been used to trigger and justify rulemaking efforts in various areas. Complaints have played a major role in directing the subject matter of examinations when the bureau does examinations of entities subject to supervisory authority and complaints have been a major breeding ground for enforcement investigations So we know. The bureau analyzes its complaint data a lot over time for all of these purposes enforcement looks at it supervision looks at it rulemaking research markets. All look at it and so the point is what the data in the aggregate shows has always been incredibly important to the bureau and there's no reason to the next administration will be any different in that regard we in fact given the acting director comments. We would expect it to be even even more important and so you know. It's always been the case that having more complaints and more severe complaints about a company has put that company at a greater risk of for example and enforcement investigation. So you know that's that's even though the. Pb does not verify the accuracy of the complaints. Right it's all on verified. Yeah but that hasn't mattered in the past just like it doesn't matter to the ftc into the state attorneys general. They all have their activities directed by complaints and none of them validates the accuracy of complaints on a mass scale but nevertheless they take action on the basis of complaints. They all play truth in patterns than seeing console. Laurie let me turn to you now. And i wonder if you could tell our listeners. What what are the key elements of a consumer complaint management program that Financial services companies should have in place in order to ensure an effective program. Sure allan i'll be happy to elaborate on that and this is not something that is easily found in you know Things the pb examination procedures. Some of this has just evolved over time As chris likes to say. I guess i put in the category of lower So let me impart to our listeners. What i have learned over time based on representing clients in developing and You know managing their consumer complaint programs one of the one of the key things about establishing a program is that it is ideal to have a centralized complete management process. This is key because you need to make sure that you're collecting complaints from conceivable channel. And then you're managing them through a central hub to make sure that you're providing a timely and bull response to consumer Companies that have a decentralized approach to consumer complaint management tend to struggle with this so As a best practice that is really what the the copd refers to see. Or you could have you know. I'm sort of spoke and hub approach where you have. Decentralized complaint management that it all collects up into the centralized function a second very important component of a consumer complaint management program is having written policies and procedures so that everybody understands how to manage consumer on that is absolutely the pb expectation and Out this is a good time to reexamine your policies and procedures in late of the acting. Deputy directors blog post another critical component is root cause analysis. You really can't just glibly reply to consumer complaints unless you start investigating what's actually causing at particularly when there tends to be a trend of receiving similar complaints. You wanna get to the root cause of what is creating this Noncompliant issue or it could be you know a consumer treatment issue as well and then fixed it whether that's reexamining your policies and procedures or your practices that cause analysis is absolutely critical. Also monitoring and tracking of complaints resolution is very important and escalating issues when appropriate to risk committees or the board of directors Further to something that chris earlier You know even one complaint can sometimes be a roadmap to investigation or enforcement action or it can lead to litigation so every complaint is important in and of itself Another aspect people. I don't really pay much attention to is back in testing of corrective action. That's driven by complains This is essential to confirm that any non-compliance issues detected by complaints or fully remediated. You should be doing on the back end to make sure that that is the case That should be part of any monitoring testing program that is part of your cms also internal communications training. Make sure that your employees from top to bottom understand. How consumer complaints are managed. Obviously folks who are part of the consumer complaint management function need more in depth training. But everybody needs to understand that if a complaint comes across their desk or you know into their inbox they know where to route it and how it should be handled. Another important aspect is publicizing. The various panels through which complaints could be accepted. And you know it's not enough to just say you know here's a phone number to be phone number or you can write to us. You also need to leverage channels like email and social media Need to be multiple channels through which consumers can submit complaints and they need to be advertised on your website. Typically as is the way most people do this or through the channel itself also one less point. I just want to mention is. It's really important to partner with consumer advocacy groups and regulators to Many consumers often submit a complaint to a consumer advocacy group rather than the financial institution of financial services company. They may also submit one to the consumer advocacy group and the company but this is an important channel where you can develop a working relationship with consumer advocacy groups to open the door to cooperative complaint management efforts and Also try to reduce the adversarial home. It is often involved in the process. Of course always important to have a strong relationship with your regulator And to make sure that you're conveying cooperative attitude in resolving and this is true for the prudential regulators as well as the pb I've been practicing in the banking and consumer financial services based for many years and the prudential regulators have used complaints as a roadmap who do provisions and examinations and investigations and enforcement. Just like the cfo. Cbs done for many years in particular the occ. I've seen has taken a very strong approach to making sure. That institutions have an effective zimmer. Kobe management process. So you know with all that said This type of approach really helps. Companies maintain a strong public image well minimizing regulatory reputational and litigation. If they have a strong and effective consumer management so But one more Area i want to explore with you. Then we'll wrap it up. And i'm gonna go to you this time chris Because i know you've already been heavily involved in Helping a our clients on sometimes new clients Prepare for war. the so-called news of and so as a result of I mentioned in my introductory remarks the on some of the things that That we're looking at but now in light of this blog. What do you think companies thought to do a deal with respect to the dealing with consumer complaints this another area that ought to be reviewed. I think it's an area to be reviewed not because there's gonna be some violation of law for not responding well on the cfp be portal but because bad complaint handling raises regulatory exposure Because it draws attention to something bad that the company may be doing So like as part of any assessment we would always wanna look at complaints and patterns of complaints and root causes of complaints. Just laurie sad. Because that's what the regulator will do you know they'll come in and look for the same thing and we also wanna look at the quality of the complaint management system for all of the factors that lori just went over which was very comprehensive and helpful Because to the extent any of those dismissing then the company is at risk of elevating its profile and therefore it's risk of regulatory activity without maybe even knowing what's going on because they're incompletely gathering analyzing complaints in a way that the regulator won't be incomplete about so looking at the complaint part of a compliance management system is definitely critical. Not because you're going to get in trouble with the cfp be for how you do complaints on the portal but because not handling complaints properly. Raise your risk profile on basically every substantive issue in the company that consumers might complain about. So it's absolutely necessity to look at it and make sure that it's being done and has all the features that lori mentioned a moment i got it. Yeah i mean. I take it. I had a client call me last week after reading the blog by david way gio and they were wondering should they conduct their own. Study to see if they The way they're handling complaints is having a disparate impact on a protected class What do you think that chris. I mean i. I was my reaction. They should not go down that road. No i don't think they should. And i don't think as i said for the reasons discussed before that it's actually possible to do a legitimate analysis of that nature so no. I don't think the bureau should do that. i think the bureau can appropriately. Look at whether companies responding to complaints timely and then examine individual complaints to see if res- if remediation was given or not and whether it should have been given or not. It can look at those things. That's totally within its purview. But attempting to analyze it in some sort of protected class disparity manner. I think that's going to end up being sophistry rather than reality. You re without laurie. Yes i do. I don't think it's is able to try to attempt any sort of here. Banking type of analysis of consumer complaints in a better approach is just to make sure that you are responding to all consumer complaints fairly and objectively and you're following your your own policies and procedures. But i do think that acting director wage goes log. Post is sort of a shot across the bow And i think it's this is a great opportunity for Regulated financial services companies and financial institutions to really do it top to bottom review of their consumer complaint management program. And make sure that it's going to meet the expectations of the pd. Going forward While i wanna thank Both both of you lori and chris for joining us today Also wanna thank. Everybody who down loaded are show And want to once again Remind people that are. They're looking for more content and more information about the new cfp and what they're up to Word even though we're our blog is no longer called. Cfp monitor dot com and it's now called consumer financial services consumer finance monitor dot com We're still watching every move of the the fbi b. There's hardly anything That they do that Were not on top of Am we'll continue to do our webcasts and webinars relating to the c. upbeat As it becomes more active and as we detect other areas where companies ought to be a focus and want to just finally a to remind you that our podcast show is a weekly show Except for when a legal holiday falls on a thursday we released a new podcast that And you can find all of the priors shows we've done and we've done them now for over two years. There are on our website. Ballard spahr dot com or you can locate them wherever whatever. Your favorite podcasts. Apple may be apple google play spot of by etc once again. Thank you and have a good debt.

cfp cfpb ballard spahr lori laurie richard cordray ftc foundation of cfp rohit chopra chris david geo Laurie summerfield Laurie tci bank Laurie copd chris Devotes allan allan david
Podcast #35: Itumeleng Monageng

The Urban Astronomer Podcast

39:37 min | 2 years ago

Podcast #35: Itumeleng Monageng

"This is the urban astronomer podcast. Hi there. Welcome to episode city full of the of an astronomer podcast. My name is Alan fast fault today. I am taking back to basic formats with an interview, but instead of physics to take on the next leg of our journey to the life cycle of stall from guess, clouds black hole, and a mission updates by Clem Onga mica, who's from the equinox show. The interview today is with a local drama doctor to Melena hang a recent PG graduates working as a research tournament for these African astronomical. Observatory I, I learned about him when he appeared in the short promo video type by SAAO. So I gave him a cool invited him onto the show he grisly accepted and helium but before recording for you to take a moment to think patriot supporters there aren't a lot of you guys. But I appreciate you all the mall because of its what you giving me might not seem like much. But every is appreciated and it's already helping to cover some of the costs of hosting the websites. Thanks and don't forget. That the Hyatt's supporters get Judy recordings library. Every recording have been used for editing and trimming and even a few recordings that haven't been heard, yet, or whereas owed for special projects just hits the patriot appreciation page on the openness pharma lip sites at WWW dot open. Dash trying to come to find the link and since I'm ingratitude mode. I would like to say hi, and thanks to the sadly, reduced crowd at the awesome, astronomy, punt caused their quality show. Run by good people, you know, this stuff. And you put a probably professional show. Yes. I know they all sometimes and collapsed, gills and pitying salt. But that's all part of the fun. And I wouldn't want to change that, for the world anyway, they said, some really kind words about claim the show and myself. And I was touched deepen my heart's. You guys. When the invasion comes, I promised was up O'Neill token resistance. Law idle green friends. Ooh. We'd better cut to the interview now before emotional. He has a man of the hour took to, to Milan. My name is booming. Nothing. I'm originally from Joe book, I grew up there, but then I been living in Cape Town for the past ten years, or so I came on for my undergrad enough state since. Undergrad at UC tea, and the on Ministro great stuff. So then what's would lead us from me? I think it's basically curiosity. So the earliest memory of this is when I was about twelve with tina's old was the was a solar eclipse, this one day. And so my father used by the dating newspaper and on that particular day they had a they had a coverage of the of the solid lips. So they're explaining everything about it than, you know, the ins and outs. And what's actually happening? But at a very layman level, that a twelve year old good understood could understand. And remember, the newspaper came with these safety goggles view, the solar eclipse of damaging is yeah. Yeah. Now is using that to, to you and I was excited showing people around during people at school. Yeah. Insuring my parents. And, and my brother actually saw this interest in, but neither kitties astronomy book. And I haven't looked back since I guess. And so, when you went to go straight four a, what was a physics degree or in front of me to go. How did you work? Yeah. Well, it's a double major. 'cause that's, that's usually the case with the signs uh streams. So at, at a physics and astronomy, double major knows it. Yes. He said. Are you see T C T, nothing equity said you jober young control? Janice? Yeah. So actually at the time when I was doing my undergrad UC tea was the only university in South Africa that offered astronomy undergraduate level. With other universities, you, you would have to major in physics something else, like manslaughter apartments. What worked it was that this was two thousand seven okay? But I thought it grad. Yeah. All right. So you got you degree, take it. If I were Cole. I'm not quite kid you to Mazdas oil pitch. Do you have it yet? My just finished, my PHD. Oh, congratulations. Yeah. Thank you nice. What was the what was the topic? The topic of my PHD was mal to eight land studies of. Gunnery binary. He's okay. All right. I think so. A paper you did it with Finn DASA McBride, right? Yes. Yeah. She she was my supervisor cool. Yeah. Yeah. For masters, both masters mpg. Okay. And from the how did you get into? I'm assuming you say. Yeah. At the moment, I'm looking is CEO. Was it an easy one from graduating to canoe actually in here for my graduate degree because Dr McBride is headed? Join position with UC t in SAAO. So even those registered at UC t I had office space yet SEO. So I had a choice of while I had I had two options of spending time as a oh, you see te'o both, you know, could split up my time. I wanted to. But I like to say, oh, mall environment. So I've been spending most of my time. Yeah. Okay. How long have you been? So as I did my masters in win t twelve and finished in twenty four teen. So from twenty twelve basically. Been both here in UC TI. Okay. So it's nice to give you a second year of any nuts, and she's Asian guy. Oh, no yard Uige. Okay. What, what do you research interests? So as I mentioned, I'm doing my so my PHD. Thesis was on. Gumri binary my master's thesis was on the so called beady x Ray binary. So I work on high mess agreed by police in general. But then I also I'm also interested in the binary saw systems, like low message. Three binary Eason into release central's thousand of both planetary Netflix, and so basically any interacting stellar systems. I'm interested in never coach me that you could have been res at the. Yeah. It's actually a hot topic does a guy working here. Dr Michelle sqi he's done a lot of work on that. He's continuing to do. Discover these who's Benham's dozen the center PM. So this be something win the one stole his addicted is to make the energy independent. And the other one is just a companion. Oh to the two. Is he is still intact ochre? Yeah. Well, that's interesting. It was actually quite a few papers on them recently by mostly led by the Chelsea was also looking here is from. Oh, okay. All right. Yeah. So research mostly on optical studies of highness agreed by Reese. So with be Ray boundaries they consist of aid be east. All were the neutron saw overeating around it than the bees, actually has a disc around. Which, you know, varies science. So one of the main aims of studies is to understand how this this varies in tax with insurance doll giving permission to other than like x Ray emission. This is at say a decrease in discu. The ads decreasing disc. Okay. So does an equation disc? Decreasing of never heard that to me. What's, what's the difference? So the difference is that with an increase in disc, unanimity, found find those around compact objects like around neutron stars or black holes, the meta fools from the outside of the disk to the inside 'cause it's being created by the by the combat object. Right. But the decrease in disc, it's basically the same physics, but just that the Meta's flowing oxide, because it's it's fund by the style. Okay. So what does it be east on, so Bs thaw is, as you might know, spas classified by this system where the used the letters will be a key KM so be Feingold guy? Kiss me how, how did member? Gumbel. The sun is a g types law. Right. I saw a b e saw is a b type saw. So it's a very high mess saw. Okay, let's be teaching. Yeah. So they can go up to messes of the times. So Sola masses. So detached mess. The sun. And it's spinning very rapidly, which might have to do with the formation of the disc. Right, so K. Yeah. So it's very heavy. So it's a B Bechtel type, and the becomes because of we see emission lines in the optical, spectrum, okay? Alright STAN end the emission lines come above caused the disk. Case of the disk is halts in its glowing and is in it's on alma lines and he'll in mines. Okay understand snow. Thank you, Joe. Well, we all motoring through these questions. Not false tonight planned. Okay, if you what would you advise because this is an interest of mine. Now, one of the reasons I do the punt caused is to try and sits astronomy as an option for learners and students and young adults. And what have you show, whether it's proficient low amateur. You know as hobby. What would you advise? Somebody say school age, maybe from your way on your background where you grew up. Whatever you, if they want to, to be like you. What would you tell them? How should they start? First of all, you have to happen interest in it. So in physics, all astronomy. And then has lots of inflammation, I guess, now it's easier than it was when I was in school because, you know, everybody has smartphones now the kids head phones. So you access to inflammation, lots of it in, in your pocket. So look up, usual universities, and observatories like a CEO and hot girl, they have outreach programs. So look out for these and get information from them, 'cause, you know, you can you can take part in them, for example, SEO has the ugly, very active outreach department, which hosts open nights of e second Saturday. They go onto schools. They get learners to come here. Check to astronomers check to engineer. So there's a lot of those around. So use use your smartphone to the internet to get information, and you can industrial was very friendly. People. Always welcome kids illes saluting to check about. This is insane and everything. And also, you know, as you know, a CEO beano, this tennis clubs in Sutherland and the welcome visitors. So there's this regulatory health, the kids can can always visit. I'm assuming you've seen. But these spend a little time they or do you tend to just put in a request? So for my for my graduate degree of spent quite a few a few weeks, observing using a very telescopes day. So observing, my data and also helping out my collaborators who you know, who couldn't make it whatever reason. Yeah. Without spend a few weeks. So I've been working since February as a salt savant. Astronomers of of been using salt. Yeah. That's about one week once a month also. The frequency. Yeah, it's been. It's been fun. Great. A question is more ribbons and me recently being appointed direct citizen signs for Esser? Society, so citizens signs become a really big deal recently kind of work at you do in related fields. If that much is was to help. I would probably by default recommend a citizen science projects, and I'm defining this quite broadly. So anything from. Avia. So what have you. What kind of what's, which what's those projects are useful to you? To me, personally. So, for example, the current recess the paper that I'm working on right now of actually used a VSO data magnitudes to, to Kevin rate. The magnitude of a star that we, we currently study. So that's, that's been very useful to me that actually because, you know, you have a lot of data from amateur astronomers that might have not been available. All might have not been known if it wasn't for them. So that's that's began for me. That's that's, that's one coup as Benson direct directly lied to an during. Okay thing about via. So is it seems to be generally useful in all sorts of areas? Where is your the stuff against the personalities should be as I understand, much more narrowly focused? Yeah. And you have you have also these rules and regulations that make it very inaccessible, you know unless you know they made the data. So there's propriety period, usually for these big tennis does that only the person law the PI of the program and collaborators have exited until as compared when becomes public. So that's why we appreciate. Amitav sternum community. Perfect. Good to hear. I have run out of stuff to ask you, sorry. Is there anything you would like to Joe people's attention to or particular plug oil shake? Yeah. Show, so I will promote the SAAO so you can visit get inflammation on essay OM what you can do how you can visit on the website. It's WWW dot as a oh, the AC that a. So this is, you know, for everyone kids at alz anyone interested in this me, there's regular as I said, open nights that are held every second set today, where the foment is at eight and it's free and sensible to everyone. So the foment is that usually doesn't astronomy, giving a talk for knob the two minutes or so. And then afterwards if the skies clear we take out, small tennis, coupes, and you can also use the big ten school over. Yeah. To view whatever is up, but who objects up and intact, this Domos and ask questions and yeah. And his feet you can bring any any accessible for all age ranges. So to be, you'll get kids from the age of four attending to people from the age of about the ATS. Oh, okay. Very it's, it's a lie. It's a light rain jokes of people with different backgrounds. Some of them, don't know anything about astronomy. Some of them can concede at does an interesting. If people would like to talk to you get hold of you. You can get a hold of me by Email. So my Email address is. I am when offing that's I am an. A. G. E N G at CI mail dot com. Oh, you can just follow me on social media, such for me on Facebook gets million millennium. When a hang. And my Twitter handle is I am. So I m m a t you be and all the cling. So that's on the unleash Ona's page show. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much having you on. A few episodes ago when we'd asked picked up our story about the volition of a star from gas glad to super Nova. We finished on a list of the different types of stall that you get based on how much message into them we come at Brown wolves red wolves wolves and the various Keller giants. But one thing all true stalls have in common. Is that for the bulk of their lives? They all powered by the fusion of hydrogen into helium in 'cause now some stalls are enormous, and having serves long of acquaint small and have significantly less. Now, I think that if you ask most people, which of these stalls, but lost longer, there's that the one of the biggest reserves could keep burning along because we'll Tara's work but stalls, don't just stole the fuel. It's the very mass of it fuel, which powers, the engine which heats and crushes everything together and causes a nuclear fusion to begin in the first place. So the bigger fuel supply, the heavier, it is, which means the core of a big star is much hotter denser, and larger than the core of a small star. And a bigger hotter denser, cool burned switz- fuel much foster than a smaller lighter one. This means that the big stars have very short lives, all the smallest ones could burn for many trillions of years. So what happens when fuel does eventually run outs? It is more red dwarf star when it doesn't actually manage to use that bullet fuel fusion reactions, just stump rid wolves have conviction current so that Frisch hydrogen from the outer reaches consecutive into the core, and the helium ash can move away, so that the hydrogen and helium stay pretty well mixed throughout the body of the stall over time, the concentration of helium increases and concentration of hydrogen decreases, as happens few and fewer of the collisions between atomic nuclei all between two hydrogens and more of them involve helium. So we get fewer fusion reactions happening, which means this energy being produced which means the pressure begins to full that allows guys he's a win a bit. Everything can settle down a bit further until the pressure and temperature. Forced back up enough to speed up the fusion to gain and the balance is restored. In other words, as a ridge wolf ages, it, shrinks and heats, gradually, eventually, though, it will reach a point way it just kennel to stay in the contraction is just not heavy enough. I will not happens fusion gradually dies down, and eventually stops. And what's left is a white wolf tiny complex bowl of super-dense, helium, gloving Whitehall's with residual heat. Largest dolls like Owen are big enough to push pastas point. The first difference is the covy alert will star does not mix with the rest of the store. So despite having a much larger supply of hydrogen fuel only, a small portion of it is ever available to burn and the helium ashed not get circulated away. Instead, it's a humiliates and over time. The corps of engineers becomes almost entirely composed of just helium. But hydrogen fusion doesn't stop like the red dwarf as fusion reaction. Slow down the enticed all contracts likely raising the temperature and push through. And so the central parts of the star that a halt enough hydrogen fusion growth, so we end up with a hot dense, but not actually burning core of helium surrounded by an outer Cole of fusing hydrogen over time the helium, call gets bigger and beyond the call grows outwards into a shell of hydrogen. Fusion. From the outside. Nothing seems to have changed much the stalls of the dimmer, and little small, but there's always extracts going on in the interior, a helium, coal slowly growing and getting halter and halter. And since his fusion going on there. No energy being released a contract gravity. It also continues compacting tighter and tighter at the same time, because the fusion of hydrogen is happening Costa to the surface, the bulk of stall all that hot plasma surrounding the hydrogen. Fusion shell gets altered to in accordance of gas laws that I've talked too much about. They respond to the increase in temperature by expanding the entire stall grows getting bigger and bigger as it gets bigger, the surface area, obviously increases, which means it can radiate heat out more efficiently. More efficient radiating leads to, to apparently paradoxical changes the service of the stall cools down because the same amount of energy has now spread out over a much larger area and becomes Brian it because again, this so much more service to Ray. Radiates eventually, the core temperature is so high that something over a hundred million Kelvin's all degree celsius that the next stage begins helium stones to fuse into heavier elements like carbon, these reactions, involving three helium four atoms, combining different ways to produce a denim, it's all very temperatures since two increasing the temperature by even a small amounts makes the reactions much more likely to occur. And this leads to a chain reaction within the within the of the storm, the helium co-funding gets enough, a helium fusion to begin which releases energy, causing the temperature to God forbid, more that causes helium fusion to have foster, which pushes the temperature up higher, which speeds up the actions further so way, hydrogen fusion was a relatively gentle and stable events. The vision of helium is more like an explosion that we call a helium flash for a few seconds. The core is so hot and energetic that produces about one hundred billion times more energy than, before, all is extra heat courts, the courts reputable spanned. Pushing back violently against gravity anyway, after all of this things stabilize one small, we don't have a large and burning coal surrounded by a hydrogen burning shell and outside of that our old radiative zone continues as if nothing had happened and convicts out to lay off to that incident he stalls at this stage have ballooned up so much that all at violence of helium flash that explosive growth of the call is completely invisible from outside these stalls. Bentley are called red giants. They cool enough to be merely. Glowing red hearts, instead of yellow, white or blue heats, we've seen so far, and there many hundreds of times, larger than they were in the hydrogen burning phase, the sun, for example, when reaches the stage will likely be big enough to competing youth. It will have grown from a diameter of a little over a million kilometers to well, over one hundred million this leaves so much material between the surface of the core that none of the violence activity is visible on the surface at all. Instead, we just see the stall continued to exp-. Spend as all that newly release energy heats up. The house is, and causes them to continue expanding even further now, as you'll remember from the very first part of the series, the further you get from the center of massive any of any massive volume. The weak gravitational Holden, you, so as the outer layer of gas, expands it, eventually reaches the point where it can overcome the gravity and simply liftoff escaping from the star continuing to rush into space at whatever speed it to be moving before in an ever. Expanding shell spreading out forever. Glowing until it depicts entirely into interstellar space. Meanwhile with all the excess energy of helium flash having been released the remainder of the stall settles down into a new stable states, a hot dense coal furiously burning helium into carbon oxygen nitrogen at temperatures of over one hundred million degree celsius, sir, on the by Kuna shell of hydrogen fusion surrounded, again, by progressively, cooler layers of ceiling, plasma this helium burning red giant stage loss, significantly shorter time in the main sequence hydrogen goading stage, preps, one hundred million years, or so, listen, one percents of the total life. What happens then? Well as always that depends on just how much material is contained within the star. And how massive it is Alson having pulses stage will eventually end as tool, but a stall significantly will mess than that. Well, now the individual who isn't sites because this is when we get a mysterious neutral, install even if is enough mess. A black hole will explain that next time. Ten nine eight seven. Reengineer up and burning to one zero and liftoff of the urban astronomer mission update. Hi. And welcome to the machine. Update segment of the urban astronomer podcast. My name is clemen gone. I'm your host in this part of the show, which will keep you up to date with current space missions upcoming launches and other space related things are fond interesting. And we don't even really have started our first show, and we already have to celebrate. Two. Oh, that was nice. And that was sixty candles that were blown out there in the end in for no one else that NASA and Nassau's turning sixty this week and can look back on amazing history of manned and unmanned space Floyd. And of course, the first moon landing springs to mind that will have next year. It's fiftieth anniversary and but also other malls missions, such as Voyager one and two Cassini in the moss Rovers to name a few. Have given us amazing new knowledge of the solar system, and well, it's also a moment where we should remember that spaceflight is a pretty dangerous business. And we must remember astronauts of Apollo one challenger and Columbia. And. This year. Nasa set to commence meant missions with the commercial crew program and a return on to the moon has just been announced by NASA administrator, Jim broadened Stein at the conference in Germany. So all in all that's good news. Weld on NASA. Happy birthday, happy sixtieth, and let's see what the next sixty years will bring us looking forward to it. Okay. Moving on, let's talk about some space missions, which are currently underway. And if you've listened to the podcast of the show, you, perhaps, remember, the higher Busa to mission to asteroid reu-, but the Japanese space agency Jaksa at the time of the recording of this mission update, a third land court mascot, which is built by Germany, and France is floating down to the surface of the asteroid, and that follow. So successful touchdown of the to Minova Rovers, one, a and one b several days earlier, late September and so far, row, the Rovers and over the cameras show that the surface of the asteroid is fairly rugged and that actually may have some consequences for the. Tradition of irregular sample by the orbiter a little bit later in the mission. So we have to watch this what's going on there. And we'll report back to you. Once we know more. Eighteen is certainly the year for near earth, asteroid missions, and the second mission to go to an asteroid is, of course, NASA Zerous wrecks which will arrive as is targets asteroid nineteen ninety nine argue thirty six oh, better known as Ben on the third of December this year, the spacecraft's navigation cameras have acquired the asteroid and assault wrecks on the win a few days ago, the first of its three breaking maneuvers to reduce its relative speed to the asteroid from around seventeen hundred kilometers an hour, which is roughly four hundred ninety meters second down to. About point zero four meters, a second, one hundred forty four meters in our and the breaking is rather important as the gravity of Benue is extremely low, and the spacecraft needs to use its main engine to slow down and con rely on, on the asteroids gravity to pull it in Benue like we do higher Busa to currently is, is a combination Conrad and comes close to earth every six years, and those are restricts mission hopes to unlock Begnaud secrets, and hopefully will return with regular sample in twenty twenty three so over the next year we'll follow the progress of the mission, of course and report back to you. He on the urban astronomy mission update. It's the saying goes a little things in live come in three. So the third mission on to mention to you, the pocket Sola probe, which was launched on a delta four heavy on August twelve this year. Ten nine eight seven six five. Three to one zero liftoff of the mighty delta four heavy rocket with Nasr's Harker solar probe. A daring mission to shed light on the mysteries of our closest star the sun. Look good in full dress. Check engine light. Prejudice continue look good on all three booster. Pressure on the goose -ter. Traveling down to the Marsh trust. Response. Good. Second flight. Strap on boosters look good in full dress. The corporate looks good in the arse trust. Equal to actually looking good right down the middle rain Strack. As you could here. The launch was a success. And Parker will do the first of seven planned, Venus, gravity system, October third, which is tomorrow my time here and be recorded and have its first perihelion the closest point to the sun in its elliptic orbit on November fifth. There will be a total of twenty four close in Candice with the sun, where park of flavor closer through this sun's corona up until twenty twenty five and the mission goals are to trace the flow of energy that heats, so, like corona and accelerates the solo individuals to determine the structure and on necks of the magnetic fields at the sources of the solar wind. It's a fabulous mission and engineering challenge. And Secondly, I'm looking forward to the signs that. Parka Sola, pro Bill return in the coming years. Okay. And let us finally have a look at the up coming, launches of manned, and unmanned missions for Tober twenty eighteen on October Levin, a stress St. so use Rooker to relaunch from the biking or costume drama in Kazakhstan. And we'll carry members of the expedition fifty seven to the international space station and on October twentieth by p Colombo joined ISA Jackson mission to mercury relaunched from Kourou infringe Ghana on a Ariane five rocket and the mission gets its name after Giuseppi, peppy Colombo, who was a scientist, and engineer, the university of Padua neatly, who I implemented the interplanetary gravity assist maneuver during. The nineteen seventy full mariner ten mission. And that technique is now used commonly by planetary probes. And the mission has to individual spacecraft. One is the Japanese mercury Magna does ferry orbiter, which has recently been named Myo meal, quote, sure how you pronounce it. And the second one is to European mercury planetary Ovid her MP. Oh, that one hasn't got a nickname yet. But maybe they will take the urban astronomer podcast suggestion and call it just Freddie. Proposed landed was supposed to be on board has been scrapped in two thousand three due to budget problems. So that would have been the first landing on mercury, but that is not to be. As missions to the inner planets are quite difficult to get to that tog at the Tomlin of the mission is rather long, and the space craft will take seven years to position itself antenna mercury Ovid in twenty twenty five so quad wall. And during this time it will use solar electric propulsion and nine gravity assists, flowing past earth, and moon in twenty twenty Venus in twenty twenty and twenty one and six mercury flawed boys between twenty twenty one and twenty twenty five and the end of the gnome. No mission is twenty twenty seven and it has an option for extension until twenty twenty eight so the mission will give us plenty of returns, once it's at mercury. So a long term thing to look forward to. Okay. That was it said that was the first installment of the urban astronomer mission update of toba twenty eighteen and as always, we will come you Komen's Christians and suggestions. So please keep him coming by the urban astronomer podcast websites. And you can also reach us more Facebook and Twitter until the next show. I'm Clemencia and bye. For now. And was that we come to the end of the show. If you liked it, please consider subscribing in IT on Google pod calls, you whatever MP used to fit your costs just hit over to urban dash astronomy dot com and click on any of the putt cost links, instructions and links. If you need them if you're up for it, if you have a minute to spay and you'd like to help grow the show. Why not also leave a rating and review or even better share the subscribe link with a fin astronomy fan site ski? You know, they'll like it's real thin gene, sits. And if you really wanna bring a tear of joy in my, I click the page on link and pledge a few dollars to support the show as the Beatles said, oh, you need is love. But they also said was loved on pay my bills. I want money easy for them to say they had all of animal the money. What's the moral of the story? You can't really rely on on provisional detainers for personal advice. But if you have cash spit you welcomes to drop a few coins in my hands to help cover costs, and if he can't. Well, that's also fine. I love you all anyway, anyway, over the punishments, I've gone on and on about scope picks. So that's big astronomy, vents, which rented kissing a few weeks Bank. And like last year, I spent the entire day in the auditorium, recording the niches so that I can play them for you here. So the next few episodes will feature these talks, and also like last year. They will also be made available in video form on my YouTube channel and on the scoping soup sites. Don't miss it. There was really speak. I'm quite excited to be able to share them with you. Anyway, that's, that's it, then but we really are time. So thank you for listening. I hope you enjoy the show, and I wish you nothing. But the clear skies member to lichens of scribe. Cheers.

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SIDE EFFECTS w/ Dr. Sapna Parikh and Jonathan Lorenzo

Bad Science

39:32 min | Last week

SIDE EFFECTS w/ Dr. Sapna Parikh and Jonathan Lorenzo

"Welcome to bed signs the show the breakdown down the signs of a movie with a comedian and scientist today. We're discussing twenty thirteen's side effects. So i'll ask about black box warnings antidepressants and how to wine and dine a psychiatrist but first a quick word from our sponsor did get it right. Will we have to fight. It's your host edinburgh and today i've got two wonderful guest joining me i. She's the recipient of the national harvard book award for outstanding achievement in academics. And the arts. She's a journalist wilderness. Emergency responder scuba diver and she was kind enough to discuss the movie everest back in october. On my mother's favorite podcast bad science. Welcome to the show. Dr sukhna parikh. Hi thank you so much for having me back absolutely. Thanks for coming back how you doing. I'm doing great how about you. I'm doing great obviously a little bit more down than usual. Because i just watched side effects. I'm feeling good. Yeah me too. I'm still here in new york city. And are you feeling optimistic about the vaccine efforts are turn around on copeland nineteen. Yeah i am feeling optimistic. We have about thirty percent of the population here in new york vaccinated and i can see you know people starting to feel like they can be out and about doing things. It's a little early to just say you know all clear. But i'm i'm sort of feeling optimistic. Okay great and speaking of this movie. Are you on drugs right now as we're talking. I'm on caffeine. Currently i actually drinking herbal tea at the moment and no i'm not i know we're going to talk about all these drugs. Oh yeah phone drugs today on the program only fun. There's nothing about amounts of the movie was just a barrel of laughs. Well dog about it. Our second guessed. What can i say. I've known him since. I was about three feet tall. He's a musician and a breath. Work teacher. I normally call him jaylo. But i understand that. That's a bad idea for the podcast. It could be distracting. But he'll always be my jaylo and i'm thrilled to have him on the show it's gianlorenzo hey man how you doing. I'm doing great jonathan. How are you really good. I'm so stoked to be doing this with you like you said we've known each other for so long and to be able to create something with you right now is really cool. We're creating together dude as we speak in real time live. Yes live and recorded and edited and then put out later. I it had heavily and then put out. Yes yes heavily. Bunch of music is going to be in your effects so listen your breath for teacher. I've done one of your breath. Work classes it was like nothing else that i've ever experienced Doing anything and i just assume that part of the reason you do it is to help people with things like depression or should people just take any pills that they can get their hands on. I think we should be as a whole as a society looking for alternative methods to promote a physical and mental health. And so as little pills as you can take the better you know So the breath is definitely a way that you can deal with a lot of those things that people are taking pills to deal with. And what are you achieving. Because i don't even know what to call it exactly like the emotion that i felt towards the end or climax i would say of your class was a really strange one. Can you describe that for me. Yeah every every experience is different It differs from person to person and even within the same person at differs from experience to experience but the breath work opens up not only physically but emotionally. So there's a sense of connectedness There's a sense of relief there's a sense of openness of clarity and the culmination of all these these sensations and the state of awareness kind of culminate into that feeling that you had yeah it was powerful something you ever experienced a breath word class. You know what. I'm talking about or do we sound like too weird monks that are on like i don't know organization that you are afraid of. No i love it i. I don't know if i've done the exact type of breath work that you're talking about. I really wanna try what you do. I've started meditating in two thousand eleven And so i've done. I think through that some different types of breath at different teachers of brought into different classes. And then you know. There's i don't know it's always just an amazing natural way of calming yourself. You're talking about so. I would love to try what you do. I would love to take you through an experience. That would be super cool. Yeah absolutely so. People can just visit j. Lo breath work dot com just j. lo dot com silo dot fun. Okay listen. I want to know what you think about this. The first thing. Sukhna that i was thinking about when watching this movie was if anybody's going to profit off of what's happening right now. The in nineteen vaccine. It's probably big pharma right. I mean like are they living it up right now. Spring break in cancun style. Yeah there is so much money to be made these vaccines and they were paid in many cases. Upfront the whole way. That vaccines are ruled out a little bit. Different than how things are normally done. paid upfront. In many cases they were doing the research. While manufacturing and lake the government needed to pay countries around the world or pay but it was also. There's kind of a a side effect that was actually positive from that when that was competition that drive to be the first to get a productive effective vaccine out. Knowing that there's money to be i mean it's hopefully not just for the money for the sake of solving this problem but there was a lot of money to be made and there was this next was made really quickly so that's sort of the benefit that came that came from that while. I'm sure there's going to be documentaries about this whole time period for years and years to come so stay tuned for who's screwing us the most financially in the coming years on hbo okay. I have to mention one thing about the movie. I mean obviously listen. I have tons of questions and concerns about antidepressants et cetera. And and really just a whole system. Which i want to get into but we have to talk about one moment in particular. So here's a side effects spoiler here okay. But i think it must be said i. This is my first time watching the movie. And the moment that. She stabs channing. Tatum audibly got up. I sat up and to no one i said. Oh no girlfriend yelled from the kitchen. If i was okay. So did that shock guys as much as it shocked me. That was an extremely effective. Seen i thought yeah i didn't see it coming. I think it was just so casual. How she stabbed him. But i would. I was kind of like what's happening right now. Is this going to be a full murder like like a love. Poke monday but he. He died confused stabbing. Like i would've stab some. I mean let's not get into this. But i use a little more than the stabbing. Yeah it was very sort of casual very casual. I i knew the opening scene. They had the the camera. Shaw into the bloody floor. Seen so i guess we should have maybe expected to. But i did not see that coming at that moment because it was so casual and then i did. I found myself Immediately china see if i could find. There's there's a lot of side effects that are known with drugs like ambien for example with Sleep there's a black box warning there with sleep walking. Sleep eating sleep driving Reports of having sex that people don't remember and so they put a black box warning for ambien and two thousand nineteen bill there. There's no black box warning for You know homicide homicide tendencies. they're suicidal tendencies on antidepressants Irish shocked caught me off guard. Yeah actually that's a perfect transition because that was another huge question. I had like i googled antidepressants black box warning and literally. The first thing that comes up is that in two thousand and four. The fda issued a black box warning on antidepressants indicating that they were associated with an increased risk of suicidal thinking. Feeling and behavior in young people. Now is that still on there. And isn't that like brazenly hypocritical. it's it is still on there and yet happened in two thousand four. It was based on a meta analysis. This was a large study of a large number of studies but they found the risk. Is it doubled but it was small since from two percent four percent but yet it's still on there and i know it's really kinda count. It's caused controversy since that time. Because it's kind of counterintuitive like. Why are you going to give this drug. That causes causes this but it's tricky. Because the long term risk of depression there is a fifteen percent lifelong risks of untreated severe depression. Also it's like this tradeoff But they had to put the black box on there. And that doesn't mean that it's gonna happen. It's it's of meant to be a warning on the blackbox label. It also says closely monitor these patients and watch for these behaviors. It's tricky right like you're putting it on a on an antidepressant of warning for hustle suicide. It's po- quickly can those Side effects kind of perpetuate happen. I'm trying to remember. I think there was something like several months. The onset but i don't i don't know that there's an endpoint even on the the full prescribing information. I don't. I don't know that there's an end point for when you're supposed to monitor. I think you're supposed to kind of keep it in the back of your head especially for young people An hopping back for second if i may Little cute backflip. If i will. And i will the sleepwalking you mentioned. I was very curious about this. So that's a it's a strong You know motif in the movie. She sleepwalked several times. I guess but again spoiler but whatever. It's all fake. She's not actually sleepwalking. But you're saying that certain medications can make people sleepwalk and do different activities when they sleep bogged you know what like chemically is changing. That would make this happen. I've never sleep. Walked before. And i just i don't know i can't imagine taking something that would cause that i don't know the the chemical change that's happening like the technical word for it as paris neo which is just there is actually a study in the movie where he finds it later where. I was wondering why you didn't look that before. That's as of but it's just a general term for unusual behavior while you're sleeping in the big the most common one that's known to have that it's are the sleep medications like ambien and they don't mention things like sleep murder in there but there's the other the actual labels as sleep walking sleep driving sleep. Driving sounds like sleep murder. That's not a big leap. Okay well speaking of these drugs. I wanted to talk about the commercials as well. The movie's called side effects immediately. That's what i was thinking about. I mean i can't help it. These are like the funniest commercials that are on television and have been for many years. They have these horrible lists of really affects. So i guess my question to you is like why are they all like that and also. Why doesn't this deter people from wanting to take these drugs. There's a long history with this so it's called direct to consumer marketing and we're actually only one of two countries that even allows the direct advertising drugs the other country so i guess you know you wanna guess ooh russia germany no North korea. you would think it's us. Nc the united states. and its new. Zealand's wow yeah didn't see that coming didn't see that so rent the classic side effects stab sleepwalk stabbed into that. We didn't always have drug ads in direct to consumer marketing. It really picked up in the mid nineties. Nineteen ninety seven. The first drug ad is in the mid eighties and that forced the fda to put these rules that were so strict initially drug companies didn't really do it. And then there is also a shift in how doctors and patients relate. They used to just market to doctors because they're the ones prescribing. Who cares what patients want but not shifted as patients became more empowered part of that. Like here's the drug. I want and i wanna be a part of this conversation. So in the mid nineties the fda lifted some of the restrictions they still maintain the requirement for you have to list the side effects and contra indications so contra indications. You shouldn't take this if you have to have liver problems. Don't take this but it has to list all of those possible side effects. That's still on there and that's why it's downs the way that they have to balance it yet. The other part of that that affects me. I gotta say is the budgets. Because you know you'll be watching. Let's say the miami heat in the playoffs and a commercial will come on for like you know the new ford and i'm thinking like okay. There's normal budget commercial and then a pharmaceutical commercial medication will come on and just looks like a pixar movie for a second or something. It looks like it's really expensive and buying the ad time is expensive so it also would determine as far as like. Why are these people spending a jillion dollars to tell me to take anti flocks at drive. They spend a lot of time. Because i spend a lot of time and money because it works you know brand recognition you see. I think it was the doctor. Siebert character who set in their sometimes. The newest thing gives them confidence. You know they see the ads on tv and they believe in an. It's true sheet her character. The emily character came in and was like i heard about that drug oblique sta which is not a real drug by the way Down the rest were real question. There is but i think it works. Wow i mean do you think that it should be illegal in here and new zealand. There's a. there's a huge debate. That's been ongoing since the late nineties. But i think The first amendment. Like kinda whatever we think I don't know that they're going to go away anytime soon. Because of that I amendments kind of a free for all free for free speech yet. Which but i do. I think there's concerns. I remember being a med student. And we were in brazil in the amazon in the remote region and there is one village that had a satellite dish. Tv and all of those people asked us for lipitor. The cholesterol drug when like. That's the least of their concerns. But they'd seen the ads in the middle of literally the jungle man. That reminds me of when. I was in the amazon for my med school. I don't wanna get into personal journey right. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back at qualcomm we believe in staying connected and you can see us wherever five g is helping transform telemedicine supporting remote education empowering mobile. Pc's the invention ages here. Learn more at qualcomm dot com slash invention age. The bridges over. Here we go to the show. You mentioned an email sub nevada. While you're in med school. You also were witnessing some of the and dining of doctors that we saw in this movie is that true. Yes so i'm kind of dating myself. But when. I was in med school. They still they still are allowed to wine and dine a little bit like we saw in the movie. It's just they've limited significantly since about two thousand and two. That was before that they were doing things. Like giving out world series tickets that they talked about extravagant trips in concert tickets and all kinds of stuff they limit the story limiting it in two thousand to the government issued regulations not a law and then the pharmaceutical industry like a truck group pharma code issued kind of guidelines. None of it's law visit. None of it is by law. Of course oh so clearly. What you're saying is like they can just do whatever they want still. Yeah they have to give them. Credit backed off because their subjects investigation than there are laws against kickbacks and things like that like if you give me this all slip you you know give you money or whatever So there are laws against that so it's gotten better in the last you know whatever fifteen or so years so what kind of techniques. These people trying to use the doctors now to push their medication. What's the new world series ticket. Now it's a little mellowed out. Like they still lunches they're allowed to give agreements. They help the patient. We owe it in here. ethan Making a bad joke. Don't worry about it. I think the back in the day you would see these drug reps. Come in. I've seen doctors mary the drug reps like they were just there all time. There is just yeah. What a weird way to fall in love. It was a lot different. You know you're going to be good though. I guess you're set got financial security helping each other out You mentioned the pharma code. I wrote down this no while watching the movie. In all caps the only thing i wrote in all caps. 'cause i was just like what is the pharma code. This i don't know about the pharma. Code was what the industry an industry trade group of pharmaceutical industry trade group established in two thousand two and it's called the pharma code for healthcare professionals in. It's basically this document that is supposed to limit how drug reps interact with doctors. So it's kind of what we were talking about less of only allowed to give gifts if they help the patient you're allowed to give lunches and then talk about the medication. So it's sorta toned all that down got you okay. That's interesting so sort of like yeah like bylaws. That big pharma should live by but vague enough so that they can kind of get away with whatever they want right and it's not law and it's definitely not worth and they're still any about pens. Or what does she give him a pen or something. Yeah them a bend including pens now so our pen so cool hands are still. Yeah okay okay interesting. Tender greens impinged. Okay i wanted to talk about beta blockers. And they list a few types of antidepressants. I believe there's S s is is another. One that there's a quote somebody says it helps your brain from telling you you're sad which sounds like kind of alarming to me almost but yeah i mean. Are these still widely acceptable slash successful products. Yes on definitely. There's that song in that. Show that crazy ex girlfriend. Show that i never really got into but my friend sent me the it's so not antidepressants or so not a big deal or something like that. They're so common. So those are the essence are is Incredibly common those drugs you hear about the paxil zoloft. All of those in there is you asked about betablockers. Those are a little bit different. So those work on beta receptors to slow down the heart rate. So that's why he was. He made it really seem really dramatic. Like it makes you makes it easier to be you are but it really likes closure heart rate so if you're nervous if you're performing and those are still use they don't actually treating zaidi but they do help with that and i was talking to my friend last night. Who's a practicing psychiatrist now. He was saying they're using more of those. They are using that more now to try to avoid some of the other drugs but yeah the are really common another one s and r s d something. Yeah I have an ssd drives during the tech part. I s the. The answer is really similar. They stand for selective. Serotonin reuptake inhibitors and then selective Epinephrine reuptake inhibitors. That's the nra in a beasley. Both just work. On stopping your brain cells neurons from taking up the serotonin and the nor epinephrine. So that means more of its loading around in your brain and would you because for me. I would see these things if i had a psychiatrist or the like. Tell me you know i'm prescribing. You this or. I recommend you take this. I would see that as like a last resort. because i'm a little bit scared and paranoid from watching this movie and also all those commercials and stuff. And i would try pretty much everything before that. Do you agree with that or you. Are you concur. Like should people try. I like okay. You gotta be exercising. You gotta be sleeping right. You said you've been doing meditation for a long time. So are these suitable medications. Like should they be treated as okay. Nothing else worked. So let's try this. I agree with that kind of mentality. in most cases. Think you know the exceptions would be if you're if it's really severe if it's really impacting your day to day. Even if it's for a short time that you're on it. Were maybe would jump to a medication sooner but i i sort of along the same mindset as you know trying things like therapy trying things like with. Jonathan does all of that and exercise like you mentioned that actually boost their tonen levels of probably this breath work. That's on thin does does so. I'm an advocate for all of that. I only because of like a lot of these side effects that they talk about that do exist. But i don't want to say that they're bad. Take these drugs. They also help a lot of people and are so many people taking 'em so i don't buy that at all. Yeah absolutely do you think we're over prescribed as a nation. And how do we stack up against other nation. I think we you know we are a country. That kinda that jumps to medication. Quick acceptable for you know. Some countries don't even have access to some of these drugs. I can't really compare how we stand up to other countries. But i do sorta think we I do think we're a bit overmedicated. Because it's in some ways easier than to. I don't think so but some people might think then to. Do you know some other work that you do john. Then or it's easier to pop a pill I would bet good money that america's got to be high on that list. I feel like america loves strokes and even the just the the televised ads kind of feed into this culture of it and the amount of people that i know. They're casually on him and like you said i'm sure it helps a lot of people but it's shocking to me. How many people are taking these. These drugs speaking of shocking. There's a shock treatment seen in this movie. They're treating depression with electric shock. Yeah how did you feel about that. I mean maybe we can just not take bills and put a fork in the outlet in my work. Okay i'll be right back so you always feel it's actually. It is a real thing. They still do it. I i remember seeing it for the first time. When i was in med school in i only saw it. Once in the end the women. I remember had some memory loss and if they allude to that in the movie to where he started threatening her with this. We're gonna we're gonna do the so you forget everything that happened but it's in real life. It's usually short term That last but i remember like the women couldn't remember family. God and everyone was kinda waiting for. I was only on the rotation for a short time. But the thought was that it would come back But it's called electroconvulsive therapy and they still use it for severe depression. The great friend. Who has talking to you last night. Who i love. He was telling me they still use it. They still have someone in their offense. That does it a couple times a week. So it's not it's definitely a last resort when nothing else is really working. But it's it's not. They actually did their research. This movie do do still use it. What a traumatic rotation jewish shot rotation. You had yeah. I was also curious about the i. I didn't quite understand. The lady had turn around one of her ankles. I believe and i didn't really understand the meaning or the reason behind that song. Remember that she was just wearing socks. Thoughts are really tight. Think they said something like Because you do anesthesia. To the person in your inducing a seizure. I heard them say they wanted to see if the foot would move so that they could make sure she was actually seizing. I don't know that that's actually how they do it do they. Were turning around the foot in order see. I don't know if that's really how they do. It bed science might. We'll try that out Okay i want to also mention adderall. Because i feel like that's got to be one of the most popular drugs out there that you know his prescription based do you have experience there. I feel like everyone when i was in college. Not everyone but i feel like there was plenty of people around me that we're doing adderall. And i've still never tried it because again. I'm just freaked out. i think. But is that like an epidemic. I know there's been several now documentaries about the you know kind of admiral takeover. It's definitely it's definitely common. I mean so many people. it's a phetamine. It has addiction potential But it works. It helps people focus and so it's so common saga my friend. Let's say nice to disney. Whenever asked like that really happened. Because i could totally see that happening in the movie. He asked his colleagues to hook him up with some right. And yeah i could i that i could definitely see that happening. It's that common but that's the catch with it is there's withdrawal symptoms with it There's addiction potential. So it's not just lake. Yeah no problem yeah. I was pretty shocked that moment. Actually you're mentioning in the movie because all of a sudden you know in my eyes went from. Yeah like professional super psychiatrist to college kid trying to get a fix. Yeah yeah. I could see that happening. Well yeah i mean it's a it's a pd right at the end of the day performance enhancing drug in any advantage that someone can get any sort of field humans are going to exploit that definitely. We do humans number one we are. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back over here. We go to the show about science. Okay there is a one more moment. I've really wanted to hit on. Because i feel like they went into it really like vaguely and then walked away from it pretty pretty fast where they were talking about the difference. I think molecular -ly between tears of joy and tears of sadness. I'm reading here. yeah i remember. This can her It's towards the end. Right is in her monologue baby when she was yeah she was saying it as if it was scientific fact and how interesting that is or like why that is but then they kind of just started talking about something else. I can't remember. But i was like wait. Wait a minute. Are there actual like differences between when i cry because something so funny and when i cry because something so terrible been able to find anything based that actually prove that species. There are different kinds of tears though. So for example. There's clan my bobi glands on bought on your lids that produce more oily tear substance that keeps our is more lubricated during the day versus like when you cry. it's just you know tears flowing out. So there is truth to the different Molecular base of tears. I don't know that i don't know at it. Changes with rage or happiness. Okay but this interesting though. So you're saying that there is two different kinds of tears. One is more oily for our eyes and we like i guess barely notice that they're coming down and those are not the tears that come out when i'm like crying tears on my face i would say it's like a mixed so when you're crying it's likely a mix the on control where there's more tear flow you know what i mean to flow lohan out and then the earlier tears are sort of mixed in there during the day where you don't really think about it but when you blink you're actually spreading that Over your eye. And why the hell do we emit tears like that. Isn't that weird and freaky and do animals do that too or are we just or do. We just do the jimmy with emotion. Yeah yeah yeah. i don't know i. I don't know that there's a great scientific explanation for why why we cry when for certain emotions. Hit me as you were talking like. That's such a weird thing that we do. I know it is. I mean do dogs. Does this happen to dogs or does this happen to you know monkeys. I don't know we all evolved from the same stuff like why don't other. I mean other animals have emotions. They they just don't freak out over the top and cry about it. They're tougher than us. We need to google. Do primates cry to monkeys cry. I feel like maybe. I have seen that. I don't know picture of chimpanzee crying. I feel like that's out there year and this is totally backed by science but the love possible. But there's a possibility that the outward showing tears is actually a way to get other people to sympathize with us. People see us crying and they know that something's wrong. Whoa so it's not even about us. You're saying if we were always alone it wouldn't happen if we evolved in a vacuum. Maybe i mean that makes sense. Yeah kinda like yawning through right like why do you why. Why does someone yawning. Make you wanna on instantly. Yeah there's some sort of brain isn't a britain's a brain pathway or something that triggers that. I don't know that there's a function but there might have a function similar to what you're talking about like a tribal sort of sense were like. Hey listen. this party's boring. Don't you also want to leave yawn without saying anything. Okay what about sodium and matale. That came up in this film. Do you know about that. Should i go out to my local grocery store and charges could that up. Oh my gosh. I know there are so many drugs this movie. It's just like drug heavy drug movie drunk heavy this interesting notice once known as truth serum and i tried to dig into this a bit expand To the drug israel it they were talking about the Sodium amitav it's also referred to 'em as ammo barbie dolls barbiturates and it does do what kinda talked about lower someone inhibitions. It's a bit of a hypnotic agent. I i don't know if we are still using it. I found one report a judge allowed for that colorado shooter in twenty twelve to be. They allowed for him to be questioned with some sort of medication like this. But it's not clear if they actually ended up interrogating him that way or not and then there isn't supreme court case several decades earlier where they said. It's considered unconstitutional unconstitutional coercion. If you admit something after ingesting truth serum so that to me means like why would you bother doing it. So i don't know if they're there are some reports that they are still using it for interrogation purposes but definitely not the way he used it and the once again another classic side effects. Fake out where he wasn't actually using it. It was sugar water. Whatever right let's say sailing. Classic thing i there's gotta be. Though shadow government truth serum like perfected already. I don't know. I just assume that that's out there and that would be so fun if they did just sell it like at grocery stores and we could pick some up and come home with our friends and be like. Let's learn the super truth about each other. I'm going to ask a bunch of weird questions do you record it. We're gonna livestream it danger. Okay great well listen. I have so much. I mean i was looking up some side effects very specifically and i was just overwhelmed at the amount of side effects out there and wanted to make some sort of just warning even on this. Show that like if you are thinking about getting one of these or if you're on one now to just try to do your research. I guess and i mean. Do you recommend something other. People get like second opinions when it comes to this stuff before they you know agreed to start taking. A certain type of new antidepressant can't hurt. It's kind of what we talked about before. Trying other things but i just wanted to point out that the you know a lot of this was made up the movie. If there's a lot of it was true and then seem so exaggerated. I really thought. I think they should rename this movie and call it. Lingering because malinga ring is the term where you make you make up. Make up the stuff you make up symptoms to get something for gain. And there's that's actually what was happening in this movie so it really kind of sent the wrong message about these. I cannot believe this movie was made that they weren't sued. Some by these firm super. So yeah i mean to answer rushed. I think i think they're the side effects are real but they were really exaggerated you know cure. It's a great warning in and of itself. People don't malinga style if you're doing that definitely don't do that. I know it's a fun word. I really like that word. I'm gonna as many times as i can by the end of this bug certainly malinga as i said before and certainly don't Commit insider trading. That's obviously a fool's errand as well. Yeah i actually didn't see that coming either. Did you guys see that coming. Classic side effects twist had no idea it was coming. I didn't see the the relationship coming and she. She was fading like halfway through but then when she started making out with with cyber that threw me off staff million classic side effects to us. I was gonna say another side effects twist did not see. How many twists in this movie. I've we should accounted this. Oh enough twists. Gosh darn it. Smooths got me all twisted up. Oh man this movies malinga ring over all these places now. I'm not sure if that one works. Okay well listen. Jonathan Everybody is going to want to keep up with you and breathe with you. How can people follow you find you etc right now. I'm operating pretty much just on. Instagram handle is at jolo. It's j. o. Underscore l. three os and yeah. I'm just really talking to people through their mostly. If you wanna reach out through there or you can email while you can reach. Find my email through my instagram as well. Well awesome as i said before an absolute joy to speak with. You wish we have watched this together so that we could have both yelled at all. The classic side effects twists parikh. Same question to you. Where can people find new. What's been up. Yeah you can find me on twitter at stuff. Nna underscore parikh which is s. apn a underscore a. r. i k. h. a. That's me on instagram too. I just made my instagram per private recently. Said i don't know i might change that work to get it you can. That's what i feel like making people work which is not the point and then you can also find me my Another website explorer. Enza dot com. I'm gonna put another post. Put a post of their soon with some tips for flying during a pandemic a couple of things. No one's talking about lying soon. As i'm sure many people will so that sounds super helpful explorations dot com and not recommending. That you fly but if you do then there's a couple of tip where are you going. Are you going anywhere. I haven't been home obviously in like over a year. I'm from south florida as jonathan. I'm hopefully going to be vaccinated. On april fifteenth when california opened it up l. A. up but i was thinking of going home. Yeah sometime you know. In in june or july. But you're saying that. I shouldn't or that i should drive. Take a boat. You should take about go to the panama canal. No i don't know you could. Yeah if you do fly no longer for. You actually went to south those the only flight of taken so far for me. It's quicker from new york obvious. Roy but yeah i guess my advice would be if you could avoid a mealtime. I don't know if you can do that blink of Nobody talks about his eating when people are on the flight in there eating all rules or go out the window. I did fly recently. Back to florida and they only do snacks. Now they don't do any Full meal service. People are still taking their masks off and chomp and i people around me tuna fish sandwiches. Ooh from home. And i just i mean the other thing is just wear a mask the entire time if you can so whether you're vacs not that's great that you're going home. Well thank you for that info. I will do so. I'm going to eat so mom and eat like an all you can eat buffet. And i'm gonna go and and venue on the plane. No honestly the best thing to do. I find is sleep so i tried to if i can just asleep the entire way degree if you can. I am not one of those people i love. You can just forget everything whatever's going around around you can't say i'm good at it but i do aim for it like i tried to get a little bit of bad sleep. I'll try to exercise a lot. And then get on a plane just exhausted as all hell and i guess this time rat myself in tin foil and styrofoam and cardboard and all sorts of layers and then go to sleep drugs. Don't take some drugs. Yeah exactly blake's you'll be like saw. Well then i would get up and stabbed people all right. Well thank you both for being on the show. And next time i think you are. I must meeting you buy bad. Science is a secret podcast produced by emily feld and me heath and edinburgh. Our editor is a bolinger and social media is managed by blue whale media. Shout out to eat jane king. The executive proscription juicer is brett kushner. Oh falls on instagram at bats pot. There's movie discussing the podcast. Feel free to email at signs at secret dot com. That's bad signs at secret dot com. And please leave us an it tunes review. Give us five stars calling uber driver but it does help. Make sure people know about the podcast which we really appreciate. They soliciting by.

depression national harvard Dr sukhna parikh fda pharma qualcomm channing Tatum amazon united states cancun edinburgh Siebert jonathan hbo