20 Episode results for "Ambassador Sunland"

OTM presents: Impeachment Pod, the Taylor Testimony

On The Media

23:03 min | 10 months ago

OTM presents: Impeachment Pod, the Taylor Testimony

"Being an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast that's indeed dot com slash podcast on the media supported by indeed dot Com. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates Brian Lehrer show ten A._M. to noon at W._n._y._C.. Dot Org Respondent Michael Isikoff who is also co author of the book on the Russia investigation called Russian Roulette. I'm Michael thanks for coming on today have pain so drip drip now downpour it might have been a watershed day. Let's see where we are with Yahoo News Chief investigative cards so we've been covering all this congressional testimony about the trump Ukraine scandal right drip drip drip a little new damning testimony every day toward conclusions bribery extortion of Ukraine quid pro quos if you prefer that term and for what for Illegally Soliciting Twenty Twenty campaign hell Asadollah Marie Ivanovich because remember she wasn't Pro Investigations Enough William Taylor testified yesterday and his fifteen page opening statement nope from a foreign government you know these basics by now but if it's been drip drip drip yesterday was more like a Geyser a burst pipe award person to pay up before signing the check but Taylor also texted at the time I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with the political has apparently been known for years as meticulous note taker in his State Department work but here's just one more so for now quote Ambassador Sunland Tried Ahnlund that trump wanted Ukraine presidents Alinsky to make a public statement of his determination to get to the bottom of any corruption involving the Bible allowed in a public pronouncement Taylor's fifteen page statement is online if you want to read the day by day log of what he saw and heard this summer Taylor sales in two thousand sixteen and it was to help Hillary Clinton Donald trump according to Taylor trump wanted President Celeski to name these investigations was released to the Washington Post in detail day by day account ambassador Taylor described being told especially Bhai Trump's EU ambassador Gordon foil the witness was trump's current ambassador to Ukraine William Taylor he's the Guy Secretary of state Pompeii oh handpicked to replace the previous and this is impeachment daily podcast from WNYC. I'm Brian Lehrer it's Wednesday October twenty third on his watch we knew about that text message that he had sent on September ninth to to explain to me that president trump is a businessman when a business man is about to sign a trek to someone who owes them something he said the businessman asks the of the sort of broad story that we've been covering for the last month or so look when McMahon Dany made that extraordinary press conference last week those comments at the presser in which he basically acknowledged there was a quid pro quo. I mean the the deal you know the the basic outlines of a deal where clear but but Taylor fleshes it out didn't and the Ukrainian energy company BEREA SMA that Hunter Biden was on the board of and a theory that Ukraine not Russia hacked the DNC man to ambassador sunland saying it's crazy to withhold security systems for help with a political campaign we now know how he got trump everything quote ever quote everything was dependent on zone Linski making this announcement including securities assistance in order to get the security aide to fight Russian aggression trump wanted Zoecke to make this got to that point the conversation he has with Sahlin the week before in which sunland the political appointee the ambassador into the European Union who seems to have take it on the Ukraine brief himself had told him that after talking to you what was most significant about ambassador Taylor's testimony to you well just the the specifics the details of fleshing out granularity and and the real anguish that he felt as a career diplomat seeing this play out the public announcement about investigations into the Biden's and two thousand sixteen minutes let me go to that testimony and I'm going to read you one paragraph and read everybody listening one paragraph from William Taylor's testimony as released as his written opening statement yesterday this is unquote ambassador. John also told me that he now recognized that he had made a mistake by earlier telling the Ukraine officials to whom he the wanting celeski quote in public box he said this is again from Ambassador Taylor's public testimony yesterday the written opening statement he spoke at a White House meeting with presidents Alinsky was dependent on a public announcement of investigations in fact and You could have read them to say that the quid pro quo was really just about a meeting not the security assistance right and Komo also the military aid and other security assistance totalling about four hundred million dollars and then this goes on silent said that president trump wanted President Alinsky a public announcement by Alinsky for a meeting is unsavory but it's not quite as serious as Acid or Samland said everything was dependent on such an announcement including security assist assistance in other words not just a White House meeting about ordering such investigations and it and it so it goes on so what do you see as the significance of trump insisting that's alinsky announcing investigations in public well if you had taken the text messages that had come out the in the previous weeks in a public box and that's Taylor quoting what he was told the trump wants quote in a public box by making a public statement the Russia Ukraine desk officer in the NFC he's now emerging as a looking like a pretty pretty much collapses with Taylor's testimony combined with these text messages combined with the other tests of conversation he has on September seventh with Tim Morrison a National Security Council official who has taken over for Vienna Hill as whiskey himself out in the trump wanted to have it as a campaign talking point another country has seen fit a head of state has seen fit a crucial witness he tells Taylor he had a sinking feeling after listening in on a conversation or learning about a conversation that Sahlin had the Ukrainian people because Russia will be more free to invade right so they're in the in in the passage you just read it's explicit it's not a hold up on the military the military aid that's money that's real that's Taylor said it's life and death death that zone Linski go to a microphone and say he's opening investigations of Biden and the two thousand sixteen election interference the discrepancy And you know hopefully that will be in public and we we need to take note of that why at this point is all this still taking place behind closed doors this testimony this vital testimony the public should be able to see it here it evaluate the did Taylor personally detailer personally hear the president say these things about demanding Ukraine and the Biden's and twenty sixteen thus the meeting it's the aid itself and then you go on just a few graphs later in Taylor's testimony where he recounts this remark private as you just referenced and three the President Writes Taylor off in a tweet as a radical unelected bureaucrat. He didn't say that about Taylor specifically but the money that's come in there's a conflict there by the way between Sunlen and and Taylor just had with trump and according to morrison trump told someone that he was not seeking a quid pro quo but he was insistent he saw this as US military aid for health with trump's reelection and ambassador sunland responses to him also in writing so what is yeah now that's that's pretty clear so I think that the the no quid pro quo defense which was has been the White House Defense and the Republicans Defense at for the past month this has been unfolding in it's against Taylor is basically three things so far one it's just hearsay to the hearings are self are taking place in we're going to have to make their public ace and bring all these very important witnesses back before the TV cameras to testify in public that trump defense at this whole group of State Department officials who've been testifying radical unelected bureaucrats and actually WanNa take each of these briefly I hear say to open an investigation into these things so you see American People Biden must be corrupt and the two thousand sixteen Russia story must have been a hoax something like that don't you think example Fiona Hill who was trump's Russia and Ukraine advisor she testified that national security adviser John Bolton was furious about Rudy Giuliani all he was in the middle of this he was relying what he had been told about these conversations or what he learned from these about these conversations so hill Kurt Volker another trump Ukraine envoy testified that he and William Taylor and acting assistant secretary of State Fil Rica shared with each other their concerns about Giuliani Volcker said they were just very uncomfortable with him being active then there's Michael Mckinley Secretary of state pompeo's so remember that Song Wind you know he was talking directly to the president now is he going to deny senior aide until two weeks ago he testified that he just resigned because of quote what appears to be the utilization of our ambassadors overseas credibility of these witnesses I think the Democrats are starting to realize this they cannot maintain these this closed door testimony for much longer which would be more than hearsay of Taylor's text messages to ambassador Assan Lynn in the summer in which he stated in writing that would vance domestic political objectives on quote and Gordon Samba and himself trump's controversial e you ambassador who by the way is not a career Janis politically motivated shadow Ukraine operation. She's the one who said Bolton described Giuliani as quote a hand grenade who's going to blow everybody up so that's Fiona with other witnesses most of them trump appointees who have also testified so I went back over account so some of the other witnesses from the last two weeks and we have for it is is this sufficient four impeachment and removal and I think that diplomat but a career hotel developer like trump who donated a million dollars to the trump campaign and then poof was named Master Europe even Gordon Sanmen testified I what Taylor says he told them maybe but you know that's why we need these public works well in fact I thought these are pretty clear at this point and we're going to get back to that private we're GONNA come back to that private testimony versus it be useful for our listeners following impeachment news at this point in the conversation to take a minute and put Taylor's testimony side by side so at this point one of the things that's going to have to happen is both silent and Taylor has to come back and testify and clear up this very clear you know we need to see and hear that public case to break through but the allies of the case and the details of the case not due to a defensive hearsay. Yeah I mean look I mean hearsay can be evidenced if it's corroborated elsewhere the public testimony that everybody agrees needs to come in a minute but let's take another trump defense that I mentioned the Taylor and other recent witnesses he started his civilian service in the federal government for President Reagan he was first appointed Ukraine ambassador by President George W Bush I mean that's crucial testimony This is this is this is how you build a case and let's see in who aren't following this at the level of granular detail to share a little bit of William Taylor's bio he was a West Point Cadet he fought in Vietnam a Ukraine than Obama was doing and then he was brought back this year by Secretary of State pompeo obviously trump loyalist to replace ambassador let's see how one can credibly sustain an argument like that now I mean credibility is important seeing and hearing witnesses you did that from two thousand six to two thousand nine he did not serve President Obama's my understanding but rather was part of an organization that lobbied Obama to do more for embassador to Ukraine as a radical I mean it just it's nonsense obviously I mean it just it's hard to with the trump agenda so what happens if they do hold public hearings and they compare that history of service with the president's or being busted at it he's he did not he's hearing it from Sabra and he's hearing it from Morrison there is documentary evidence though Onlin had been insisting he never would have been a part of any quid pro quo that was his testimony last week it's now clear that he was you know that's what trials are for that's what you know public testimony in hearings are for and But just get saying these hearing so far are illegitimate all I'm asking is give Donald Trump the same rights as Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton had when it comes to impeachment and I'm insisting all right let's get to the private testimony public testimony defense here's what Lindsey Graham demanded on Fox News last night in the context with Gordon somnolence if there's a discrepancy between their testimony in terms of witness credibility I mean look to describe somebody doc and Michael I did there was cut and paste from the few news articles in the last few weeks but you see how it's all consistent I it certainly consistent like I said continue to do this behind closed doors I've covered congressional hearings for decades now you know this is not the first time we've seen something like this and what they're what they tell you is your remember that Taos Ski hearing before judiciary you want another circus like that they're afraid that if they had bill Taylor with that kind of background who served Republican and Democratic administrations who fought for his country who

William Taylor Hillary Clinton Donald trump Ukraine trump Donald Trump president trump Brian Lehrer John Bolton bill Taylor Hunter Biden Russia President Obama Ambassador Sunland State Department Michael Isikoff President Reagan President George W Bush pompeo
 Brexit Deal essentially impossible, after Boris talks with Angela.

THE NEWS with Anthony Davis

06:03 min | 10 months ago

Brexit Deal essentially impossible, after Boris talks with Angela.

"L. Essentially impossible after Boris talks with Angela. Democrats to subpoena ambassador blocked from testifying coming up on five minute news Brexit the US Supreme Court judges today appeared divided over whether a landmark decades-old federal law prohibiting stain October eight. I'm Anthony Davis number the so-called principle of consent the trump administration is blocked the peace process agreed in Northern Ireland in the nineteen nineties by refusing to accept Mister Johnson's proposals arguing. The plan is key to respect three democratic led House committees the Democrats will now subpoena the ambassador Mr Samland said he had been instructed by the Department of State early morning not to appear for the Congressional Deposition Ambassador Sunland believe strongly that he acted at all times in the best interests of the United States and he and the plan moving forward would be an obstructive strategy towards Brussels they also accuse the e U of being willing to torpedo the Good Friday Agreement stands ready to answer the committee's questions fully and truthfully said a statement from his lawyer the Attorney said that Mr Samland was profoundly disappointed data's have reignited tensions across the continent the number ten soil suggested Mrs Merkel told her counterparts the only way to break the deadlock was the shift in Germany's approach made the chance of any negotiated deal essentially impossible they said the UK was not willing to move away from the principle of bonded by issuing a legal summons known as a subpoena demanding missed the someone's testimony and set documents providing a consent mechanism for Northern Ireland or the plan

Mr Samland Congressional Deposition Ambas US Supreme Court Northern Ireland Boris Anthony Davis Mrs Merkel Mister Johnson Brussels Angela Department of State United States Germany UK Attorney five minute
Witness: Sondland said Trump didn't care about Ukraine, just "big stuff" like Biden investigation, New witness testimony appears to contradict Trump's claim that he hardly knows Sondland, Ousted U.S. ambassador to Ukraine: Trump's attacks during testimony

Erin Burnett OutFront

42:29 min | 9 months ago

Witness: Sondland said Trump didn't care about Ukraine, just "big stuff" like Biden investigation, New witness testimony appears to contradict Trump's claim that he hardly knows Sondland, Ousted U.S. ambassador to Ukraine: Trump's attacks during testimony

"Finding the right pros for home projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job. Will I get a fair price. That's where homeadvisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels. homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Read Reviews News check. Project Cost Guide and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP to start your next project upfront. Next breaking news the State Department aid testifying behind closed doors that trump asked about Ukraine launching investigations and said he cared about big stuff like the Biden investigation. Plus the former Ukraine ambassador testifies about fake smears against her. The President Meantime tweeting another smear at her was it witness intimidation nation and Roger Stone guilty. The messages verdict is sending to a key impeachment witness about to testify. Let's go out front good evening. I'm Erin Burnett out front tonight. The breaking news damning new evidence that ties trump to the investigations into Joe Biden. This evidence is first first hand. CNN has just obtained the opening statement. This is David. Holmes an aide to top Ukrainian diplomat. Bill Taylor. This is this is a this is an incredible document okay. Homes is telling lawmakers behind closed doors about a July lunch that he had with the ambassador of the European Union. Gordon Nsen Linden. This lunch happened in Kiev. It was at that lunch. That's online announced. He was going to call president trump. And then this is what happened and according to home so let me just read. This crucial part. We're going to read as much of this as we can to you but I wanna read this part to you. He says I heard President trump then clarify that what am Basseterre sunland was in Ukraine ambassador. Sondheim replied yes. He was in Ukraine and went on to state. The president's alinsky quote loves your ASS. I then heard President President trump. Ask so he's going to do the investigation ambassador Sunlen replies quote. He's GonNa do it. Adding that presidents Alinsky will do anything anything you ask him to. Homes continues quote after the call ended Ambassador Sunland remarked that the president was in a bad mood as ambassador. Sunlen unstated was often the case early in the morning. I then took the opportunity to ask ambassador Sunland for his candid impression of the president's views in Ukraine on in particular. I asked Ambassador Sunland if it was true that the president did not give a blank. About Ukraine ambassador. Sunland agreed read. The president did not quote get blank about Ukraine. I asked why not an ambassador stated investor sunlen stated that the president only cares about quote. Big Stuff I noted that there was big stuff going on in Ukraine like a war with Russia and Ambassador Silent replied that he meant quote big stuff that benefits. It's the president like quote the Biden investigation. That Mr Giuliani was pushing. This is all in black and white and I just WanNa be clear on this. This call between the president of the United States and Gordon. Zahn land Gordon was holding the phone away from his ear because because the president was speaking so loudly and that is how David Holmes was able to so directly here the words of the president of the United States and I also want to be clear on this call. There were others at that lunch. Also who heard this call between trump and sunland. This development is now making sunland public testimony next week if anything more important it already with central but now this this is it. Maharaja was out front live tonight on Capitol Hill Myna. This is pretty incredible. I am reading reading here. Literally what you were able to take a picture of on your cell phone This is this. Is the opening statement that you obtained and it is incredible. What are you learning from David? That homes testimony today. Yeah and he's alarmed. He says in this sworn testimony about the president's push for the Ukrainians to investigate eight his political rivals and he makes clear. There are other witnesses to to this phone. Call between President Trump and the ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sunlen. He says that there were four people. People at this is this lunch in Ukraine in which the president was speaking apparently sold loudly that he pulled the phone gone. Sunland did away from his ear or so other people around the table could hear what the president said and the president made it very clear in that phone call that he wanted. He wanted to see investigations. Happen and Gordon Salman made it sound sound like they were going to happen in. The present was clearly happy with that. Because that's what he wanted to do. And of course this came after the president made that ask directly to Ukraine. Lean to investigate the presence book arrival Joe Biden as well as this theory about the Ukraine may have been involved in the twenty sixteen Leche interference here in the United States as but this shows Aaron the depth of the presence interest and ensuring that Ukraine would investigate his political rivals undercuts. The defense of the president was merely interested in rooting out corruption Ukraine although according to this testimony what the president was dead set on was Ukraine investigating Joe Biden now include also also in this testimony Errand David Holmes testifies about this aid. Roughly four hundred million dollars insecurity been withheld and he says that presence Alinsky Boukrane was supposed to go on. CNN and make an announcement that this investigation was going to happen. He makes clear here and that he was concerned that the presence turns Lewinsky would go on it on national television and court personally commit to a specific investigation of president trump's political rival and of course a couple of days later that didn't happen open but a couple of days later the aid was eventually released and sent to Ukraine. All right thank you very much Mono look this is. This is a pretty stunning stuff. As we've said I. I want to go now to democratic congressman. Eric Swallow of California a member of both the intelligence and judiciary committees. He attended David. Holmes deposition and congressman. I understand that there's not much you can say. They obviously as that is is ongoing. But I just want to give you a chance to say when when you're sitting in that room and you heard him deliver this opening statement Dan. What was the feeling you had good evening? Erin we're still interviewing Mr Holmes. We're on a break but it is. Gratitude is the feeling that I and others had that Mr Holmes flew across the world to honor his subpoena. The president has told people to not cooperate. The secretary okay of state will not give us any documents for this investigation and Mr Holmes like so many career Foreign Service officers like ambassador today like George Kent liked ambassador. Assar Taylor has decided to cooperate. And Wendy's witnesses cooperate as we have seen with every witness interview. We learn more and I wanted to be clear here. We understand that at this lunch. And the way the course that that Holmes is describing saying that there was a meeting sandline had and he wanted to be one on one with Ukrainian officials so afterwards he he takes out Mr Holmes and others to a lunch they sit on the outside terrace. They order a bottle of wine which they share between the four of them. And then all if this happens the point that I'm making here when I is that he sang presumably because the price of the United States was speaking so loudly Gordon silent held the phone away away from his ear a little bit. And that is how Mr Holmes and others at the table were able to overhear what the president said. Is it your understanding from all of the information. You're getting now that there are at least three others others who heard the president of the United States talk on that phone call. Who are at that table? Well Ambassador Salmon is coming up next week Erin and what I can tell you because ambassador Taylor testified to this earlier this week he was told by one of the State Department employees about the phone. Call you just described. I think we all take a step back and we think about what we know about. President is in trump. There's no one in the world who has a hard time believing the account. That ambassador Taylor gave that the President Day after asking the Ukrainian president to investigate to get his opponents called the E. U. Ambassador or connected with the ambassador and said where are we with these investigations. That sounds exactly like all the evidence we have in this case next week's going to be a big week. This was a big week today. I'm very much looking forward to presenting this case even more to the American people in the In the in the The opening testimony here. The word Biden investigation is put in quotes by Mr Home. So you know ambassador Sunland says you you know the president only cares about big stuff. David Holmes takes that to me right because there's a war going on here and he goes no no no. I mean big stuff like the Biden investigation. So it's very very clear here that that that's what was meant. I mean this is put in quotes. The Biden Investigation Biden. Being the operative adjective cracked the evidence. It's we have so far. Aaron from the witnesses have testified. Publicly is an obsession that this president had on investigating Joe Biden and his son not for American America's interests but for his own selfish interests and selfish interest. And what is so appalling about that. And the reason it's an abuse of power is not only did it benefit the president united it states it harmed Ukrainians because security assistance was not coming. People died. I WanNa ask you about the other hearing you're in today Oh yes there's another one the other I mean you know. Look this this this opening statement. I I can't emphasize how significant it could be but what we heard from ambassador Yvonna Vich today Moved many Democrats Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill The president was. I wanted to ask you about that testimony. At during that testimony the President United States it's tweets quote everywhere. Marie Ivanovich went turned bad. She started off in Somalia. How did that go then? Fast forward to Ukraine where the new Ukrainian President President spoke unfavourably about her. My second phone call with him. It is a US presidents absolute right to appoint ambassadors By the way just looking at that phone call well. It was the president United States who spoke unfavourably about her. What do you make of the president's attack Marie Ivanovich in Work Ambassador Yvonne which proved herself to be career Lewis committed a tough tough anti-corruption diplomat working on all of our behalves but the president smeared her when she was through his agent Rudy Giuliani? When she was in Ukraine's meter on that July twenty five phone call and even smeared her while she was testifying? We view that as witness intimidation intended tended to chill her testimony and chill testimony of others but more importantly this is what guilty people do innocent. People don't worry about what anyone says because they figure I'm I'm innocent but the process will work. I'll get off. This is how guilty people act and it didn't shake this ambassador. It's not it didn't shake Mr Holmes he's talking to us right right now. It's not gonNA shake and typically go forward congressman because you are on the Judiciary Committee. Is this something you would add as a consider adding a formal article of impeachment This this intimidation as you see it or is it just a point that you're making possibly Aaron. Our primary focus is the use of taxpayer dollars to have the Ukrainians investigate the gate. The president's political opponents again in the Nixon investigation in the Clinton investigation it was almost as if the cover up and the obstruction of Congress and justice. We're bigger than the underlying crime here. The underlying crime is very very big very offensive to our values but yes of course intimidating a witness is obstruction of justice. And there's strong evidence that occurred today. Thank you very much congressman. I appreciate your time as we said they're on a break going back into that homes Deposition right now as it continues news more on that breaking news. We have much more on the damning testimony of the State Department aid as we have it right now tonight he is proving. This trump's statement was not true. I hardly know the gentleman. But this is the man who said there was no quid. Pro Quo and guilty on all counts trump ally Roger Stone paying the price for lying to protect president trump. What message does this send to trump ally Gordon sunlit Mike who will testify under oath on television for all of us to see next week the tension homeowners with a strong housing market? If you bought a home more than a year ago chances are you of equity in your home and with the help of cashcall mortgage that equity can mean cash in your your pocket. The cash you need for the upcoming holidays to remodel your home or just keeping your pocket. 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Projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job. Will I get a fair price. That's where homeadvisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels. homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price. Read Reviews News check. Project Cost Guides and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download. The free homeadvisor APP to start your next project breaking news David Holmes and aid to the top. US diplomat to Ukraine Bill Taylor confirming his opening statement to Congress that he overheard president. Didn't trump talking about possible probe of the Biden's by Ukraine with the UN ambassador. Gordon Sunland it is a call. Of course. President trump says he does not recall and it also appeared to contradict trump. On how well he knows Sunlen. So in this testimony homes says quote after the call ended did embassador sunland remarked that the president was in a bad mood as ambassador. sunlen stated was often the case early in the morning which is very odd. Considering trump has claimed he hardly knew sunland once team's his testimony to say that there was a quid pro on Ukraine. Let me just say I I. Hardly you know the gentleman but this is the band who said there was no quid. Pro Quo right now. Our national security correspondent Jim Shudo pseudo former federal prosecutor lar- Coats and David Axelrod who was a senior advisor to President Obama and is now the host of the X. Files on CNN. So Jim let's just start with this basic nick thing because it's basic but but yet significant The president of the United States says I hardly know the gentleman were hearing testimony today that back in July. Hi Ambassador. Sunland is put through to the president when he's sitting at a restaurant outside in Kiev early in the morning and he remarks. The president was in a bad mood. As Ambassadors Astor's sandline stated was often the case early in the morning. Listen they spoke frequently. The president's claim is not credible He gave a million dollars to his inauguration. The president appointed him to Oh significant position and by the way entrusted him to run. This alternate track foreign policy on Ukraine. Right outside of his purview in the EU because the Ukraine is not a member we know from this transcript that he spoke more than once with the president by telephone. If sunland says if someone's not lying to say that he knows his habits he knows his moods in those phone calls and clearly sunland again from homes testimony here had a very familiar way of talking to the sitting. US President that phrase the Ukrainian president loves your ASS which is not language you use with someone unfamiliar when you're having a conversation with them right. I mean I think that is a significant point here. What overheard about this conversation is to people who are familiar? You're with each other friendly with each other. Have have a quick code in terms of you know that they've talked about something so often it doesn't have to be spelled out. And yes he says he loves your ASS That that's that's what Sunland said. As course think about this. This is the last night we were talking about the idea of somebody buddy who had so little discretion as to hold a public phone call essentially with the president of the United States in an area where it could be intercepted it could be over her could be compromised compromised in some way and make the president of any country vulnerable now. We're learning of. This person was so apparently intoxicated with the proximity to power but then she he was showing off but we can get on the phone and that person actually took the call I mean imagine the very limited scope of people. You all have in your lives right now that you would actually have a public call. Put here on speakerphone for the entire world to hear not having discretion and this is about an issue involving national security a four hundred million dollars worth of military aid that was already appropriated. That's not from a political slush fund. Erin as from a US taxpayer dollars and you think about all this contextual. The idea this was something that was so in works it had been put into foundations for so long and they didn't even think to have a discreet enough conversation they were that emboldened that speaks volumes and so much for that like non hearsay argument Well I mean I mean David axelrod right him and he's sitting at a restaurant writing a oppose. Whatever with the connection he even describes it? He places a call on his mobile phone. I heard him announced himself several times. Along the lines of Orden sunland holding for the president it appeared. He was being transferred. Several layers of switchboards and assistance Then they proceed. Proceed to have this conversation in which the United States for whatever reason is speaking loudly or the connection is such that he holds it away from his ear and has no problem with everyone else at the table. Hearing which we understand stand was indeed the case. Can I just quote for you David because I think we need to do it again. These key lines all right Homes testifies I heard president trump then clarify that ambassador son was in Ukraine ambassador. Sondheim replied yes. He was in Ukraine and went on to state. The presence. Alinsky loves your ASS. I then heard president trump has so he's GonNa do the investigation. Investors replied that quote. He's GonNa do it at the presence. Alinsky will do anything you ask him to this. This is as we say not hearsay anymore. No it's not first of all note to files if you're GONNA shake down a foreign leader don't send an amateur to do it okay. That's one of the lessons here. Gordon silent there's a reason why he was using silent. Silent was not a career diplomat. He was not part of the the the the the You know the professional Sir Foreign Service and he knew that if he went through those people as we've seen they would object act To what he was doing so he went through Sunlen instead because sunland was not a a a diplomat in truth he is a political donor. Her who is kissed into this position by the president and he was running a political errand for the president. And now they're paying a price for it and you've got to believe that tonight at at the White House They are banging their heads against a wall about how sunlen handled all of this. Because he's kind of blown their cover. I mean it because because because then it continues home testifies I asked Ambassador Sunlen so this is after someone hangs up with President trump and then they talk about the call at the table. So home says I I asked ambassador son with it was true that the president did not give a blank about Ukraine ambassador. Sunland agree that the president did not give a blank about Ukraine. I asked why not ambassador. Sunlen stated did the president only cares about quote big stuff. I noted that there was big stuff going on Ukraine like a war with Russia ambassadors on them applied that he meant quote big stuff that benefits the president like like the quote Biden investigation and that Mr Giuliani was pushing. The the reality of this is that this he says this is in black and white it is. This is the central crux of the story. It's Wyatt matters. The president was willing to let loose a the. US ally Ukraine at war with Russia invaded by Russia. Right for five years. Thirteen thousand people killed in this war relying on. US military aid just to have just a chance in that fight against a much bigger rival and the president was willing to take that away for the pure intention is described by his appointed ambassador to the u you as described by him as being his real focus which is an investigation of a political rival. It's right there. I mean this was the question at the start of this. Was the president willing to sacrifice an ally to his own personal interest. You have one of the president's own appointees saying that's exactly the case David does this. Is there there any room for question here after this. Well I mean it depends on. Who's asking I think? The Republicans will find room for question. They'll probably ably You know Question the notes were taken home said They'll question that. I mean. They will go at what they can go at I don't know whether it changes the dynamic. I don't expect that. Republicans are going to march out now and say well now that we've got this evidence clearly. We were wrong all along. There's been plenty of evidence leading up to this. That makes this not much of a surprise. That's I suppose that is true. I will again note that we we do understand that that there could be the other people at the table. There could've been up to three people who heard this because holding away from his ear when there were four people including himself yourself at that table our next blistering testimony tonight from the president's former ambassador to Ukraine shady interests the word the world over have learned a little it takes to remove an American ambassador who does not give them what they want and another member of trump's inner circle guilty tonight Roger Stone around lied and he lied to protect the president trump. He's now guilty. Convicted trump about department. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash. CNN five real life heroes. Heroes me five. all-star watch brand new episodes. Be Real every Monday. Starting November eighteen only on the report tonight president trump giving Democrats new ammunition the president attacking former US ambassador to Ukraine. Marie Maria Vich during her public testimony. tweeting part everywhere. Marie Ivanovich went turn bad. She started off in Somalia. How did that go then? Fast forward to Ukraine where the new Ukrainian president spoke unfavourably about her. My second phone call with him immediately. Following that tweet Ivanovich was asked to respond. What effect do you think that has on other witnesses? Willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing. Well well. It's very intimidating dime designed to intimidate is it not I mean I. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do but I think the effect is to be intimidating. Well I want to let you know about Astro that some of us here. You're take witness intimidation varies very seriously. Alex Marquardt has more on ambassador. Ivanovich hearing I will Ukraine policy has been thrown into disarray and shady interests. The word of the world over have learned tally. Little it takes to remove an American ambassador who does not give them what they want. A blistering opening statement by Ambassador Maria von rich highlighting her often dangerous decades service as she took aim at the smear campaign to oust her from her post. I mean there's a question as to why the kind of campaign to get me out of Ukraine happened because all the president has to do is say he wants a different ambassador and in my line of work perhaps in your line of work as well all we have is our reputation and so this has been a very painful period. The president has criticized Ivanovich repeatedly including on the July twenty fifth. Call all with presidents Alinsky calling her bad news and saying she would go through some things. I was shocked and devastated. It is that I would feature in a phone call between two heads of state in such a manner where president trump said that I was bad news to another world leader and that would be going through some things so I was it was. It was a terrible moment. Tom Terrible and threatening sounded like a threat. Did you feel threatened I did. You've wanted quickly called out rudy. Giuliani the president's personal lawyer. For leading this smear campaign against her edgy. Not Understand Mr Giuliani's motives for threat tacking me nor can I offer an opinion on whether he believed the allegations he spread about me. Republicans didn't defend Giuliani's role or his parallel policy in Ukraine crane. Not exactly sure what the ambassador is doing here today. This is the House Intelligence Committee that's now turned into the House and Peach Richman Committee. They argued that the president has the right to recall any ambassador. He likes Bitch said the way she was attacked with no defense from her bosses and then and suddenly pulled out has created a chilling effect. Not only an embassy Keiv but throughout the State Department because people don't know kind of weather efforts to pursue our stated policy are going to be supported and that is a that is a dangerous place to be what was clear in this hearing today. was how profoundly disturbing this. Experience has been free Ivanovich a thirty three year career coming to a crashing halt after she had been asked to extend her tenure in Kiev than yanked out of her post by one am phone call and told to get on the next plane home then when she read the transcript of that July twenty fifth call so when the president talked about her going to go through some things. She said the color drained from her face and she had a physical reaction. So it's no surprise. Aaron that you want to bitch thinks there's been a chilling. I all right. Thank you very much Alex. Everyone's back with me. So Laura the tweet from the president attacking Uganda Vich Sent as she testified the sitting President I and watching today and saying this is this witness intimidation. I think falls into the category absolutely Erin and here's why the President I had states remember. His job is to fully and faithfully execute the laws one in laws and books not to either try to change the testimony of the witness or retaliate against them for doing so and here you have the United States using such language language to try to discredit this witness as William Message. Not just to Uganda Vich. Every other witness. WHO's on the docket next week? From the whistle blower and beyond the president has a very clear their message. Do not testify. If you do you will have the same behavior done to you. David a trump campaign sources telling CNN tonight. That that tweet was quote idiotic. The Attic and saying that made you more sympathetic which Look it was very clear that many Republicans you know felt she. She was and found her to to be entirely credible could his tweet backfire. Oh I without question and I think it did today. I think the Republicans had to spend half their time paying tribute to her Alestra his history and credentials to try and compensate. For what the president did they also talked by the way about the fact that The president was very interested in getting these Jadwin missiles to the Ukrainians. The president was interested in fighting corruption. And she was a she was all for the missiles and she was a renown corruption fighter. So why was she yanked out of their summarily and one suspects suspects. It's because she was a corruption fighter and he was plotting what she would view as a potentially corrupt act. Yeah I mean we should know Jim right she You you know fought for a law. Establishing an anti independent anti-corruption court and Ukraine. I mean there's no one who fought against corruption Ben Ivanovich but trump is denying. It was witness intimidation and of course his loyal lieutenants are as well here they are. I have the right to speak. I have freedom of speech just as other people do. President trump is right to you want to defend himself. It was an attack on the witness. It was it was really a characterization of her resume. I don't know if he's trying to actually buy into the president blaming ambassador for the disaster of Somalia. It appears that that is what this in line with. All we know about the president's treatment even of this ambassador beyond the tweet today he endorsed a campaign to remove right he said in a call we have the transcript. Things are going to happen. Endure bad things. Which of course the ambassador took took his meaning threatening things? We're going to happen to her and that's exactly what happened. We all have free expression. Can you intimidate the public witness in the midst of impeachment trial. That's for the American people. Decide I thank you all very much an accent to talk to a Republican who was in the room. It's been in the room with David. Holmes suicide testifying now what does he make of this. You testimony and Roger Stone found guilty of lying to protect Donald Trump. He is the sixth sixth person in trump's inner circle to be convicted. And that's the end of the morning gets a dragon experiment. Are you going to play it for stop. I always lait Queens. Secondly yes brick and mortar Sundays at eleven thirty only on adult swim. Hey everyone it's poppy harlow in this week's episode of Boss Files Conversation with San Francisco Fed head President Mary Daly. She has a remarkable story of resilience and find the odds dropped out of college and fifteen years old or doughnut nutjob and then turned it all around get her. Phd Day she is responsible for crowding. US Monitoring. It's an important conversation. I hope you find it fascinating. I did check it out the boss bounce back raking news anything you ask him to. That's what David Holmes. A Career Foreign Service officer who served in the. US Embassy Embassy in Ukraine testified defied. That Gordon Sunland told president trump on a call about what Ukrainian President Zielinski was willing to do for trump and the president of the United States was talking so loudly in this phone. MM call that Sandra and held the phone away from his ear at a restaurant and homes along with others at the table heard President Trump's replies trump saying according to holmes quote so they'll do the investigation after the call which again we understand at least three others at the table may have overheard homes says quote. I asked Ambassador Sunlit if it was true that the president did did not give a blank about Ukraine. Ambassador Sunland agreed that the president did not give a blank about Ukraine. I asked why not ambassador. Sunland said that the president only cares about quote big stuff. I noted that there was big stuff going on Ukraine like a war with Russia ambassador. Sunlen replied that he meant big stuff that benefits the president. Like the quote quote Biden Investigation Republican Congressman from Ohio. Mike Turner has been in the room with David Holmes. He was also in today's hearing with ambassador. Ivanovich I know this has been in a very Important and busy day for you congressman. I'm let me start with homes. You're in the room For his testimony. What was your reaction? We knew Aaron. What's so important about the testimony of homes today that it also occurred in secret? You shouldn't be on television reading a script of homes testimony. You should have it up on the screen. You should have been able to be there. There was nothing that was classified. That's happening it's just continuing shifts process of going in secret and having these witnesses testified having a dress rehearsal if if you will and then bringing them out in the public now I can't because he had an secret I can't confirm or deny that the transcript of the opening statement that you have is in fact the opening statement but I can say this There was no new information that Mr Holmes brought forward everything that he has is still second hand can't if he heard the president have the United States. Say it. Well we'll see if you've gone on in your show to say is further. What home says about Ukraine about the Mon the being withheld so so all of that is is second? He has no real knowledge of anything with respect to the United States. Say he claims to do the investigation. And that's Donald Trump's mouth. Well that's what he says and he says it three months later and he says he took a copious notes about everything else that happened except that but even so Erin. Let's take take everything that he said as true even though there's real question as to whether it's accuracy but let's take it is true. He's not saying anything that the president didn't say in the transcript with Kalinski with the telephone. Call notes that we have that the president himself has said. There's no new information here. There's not one thing that he says that the president said to to someone that you don't have in the transcript from the day before the president fast you you you you you now you saying. The president did ask for an investigation into the Biden Inspires Alinsky in the telephone Note that we all have he asked him to take a look at it. And that's no no different than what Homes is saying that. He's supposedly overheard the day later. We'll have to find out that threw up see what Sunlen says but if you take his true. He didn't say that the president said anything that goes beyond what we already know From the president's own release of the transcript of the the notes of his telephone conversation. Let's get so when when ambassador Sunland Ahnlund when he's GonNa obviously testify next week in front of all of us and and and and supposing as you say let's suppose that he is going to come out and indeed. This is true that he did grow the president of the United States. And the president. and Said are you in Kiev. And he said yes and the president said okay so And and and and and Sunland tells the president that Dolinsky loves your ASS and the President says great. Is You're GonNa do the investigations. Nations and silence says yes and he says yes. I knew that meant Biden. You're you're okay with all that no I'm not okay with any of that But what I'm I'm saying to you because you said what is the difference. Holmes isn't coming forward and saying anything different than what the the notes that have been released that you already know of the conversation between President Trump and presidents Alinsky. I hear you wake. I hear I keep hearing that. There's hearsay in its second hand but now you're saying okay. It's it's not here. Say It is the president and he said it before so it just seems like the fence is completely changing. No what I said was that you are reporting additional things at home supposedly said in the secret Testimony that's happening. That should be happening in public. The relate to the funds that are being withheld from Ukraine with held from Ukraine with the intention of the president and all all of that is hearsay with respect to the telephone call itself if it did happen And the way that he reports it happened. There's no new information there other than the information you already have. So it's not a some bombshell. It's exactly just a day later. The exact same information so I I I don't know that this changes much the way they can. They can pray down. Twenty other people are going to say the same thing unless they get some either direct knowledge and direct testimony people who have new information this. This is just the same thing. Yeah I guess I guess I first of all the president I'd states is is. He heard his voice and Sunland will be direct. So so let me just cut to the the very bottom of this because congressman you know each other along. Let's just say that embassador console and comes out next week and says yeah. The president did tell me to do this. I was directed to get an investigation Gatien in to Joe Biden and I was and we were holding up the aid. Let's just say hold on I but but homes is giving what he hurt. I'm saying you'RE GONNA talk to Sunland next week. And let's let's say Sunlen says that. That's what everybody says happened congressman if he says that what are are you gonNA do. Are you going to say it's bad and I don't like it but it's not impeachable or will you consider it being impeachable. I'm not going to speculate on something that's not happened And and that I mean there's probably ten other things at Sunland could say that could be damaging or devastating. But what I'm saying which you know to be the case the testimony testimony that you are currently reporting of what home says supposedly happened on this conversation that he overheard of the President United States with Sunlen. There's no new information in that everything he's saying that he's supposedly over. Heard the president say while he was on the phone with Sunland and it wasn't on speakerphone. He's he says that he was just away. I had a person just before me who said he was on speakerphone. There's nothing different. Then what the president himself has released from the the White House in his conversation was Dolinsky. There's nothing new it's the same and and if Sunlen confirms at that occurred it's still the I mean it's a day later. It's the same folk I think. Saying he loves your ASS. He'll do anything you want him to do. And then someone say and then president saying so. There's going to be investigations. It's very significant. I think no no. Let's unpack that for a second first off. He apparently won't do anything he wants him to. Because there were no investigations is that were opened none zero so it didn't happen. He apparently didn't do everything that he did. Conversations were happening. The second thing is that You're supposing using that like that there's some other conversations that have happened which we don't have any information about all right. I will leave it there and I appreciate your time as always congressman. Thanks for being with and next next now. There are six Roger Stone's latest trump associate convicted for breaking the law. Tonight can't get enough of the NBA sign up for NBA League pass to gain access to every game being played across the association every night with all new ways to watch through the NBA APP Visit Mba dot com wars the NBA APP to get started. Today another major story. We're following tonight. Roger Stone found guilty the longtime trump friend found not guilty on all seven counts including lying to Congress and witness. Tampering stone is the sixth member of trump's inner circle to be convicted Muller Related Investigations. Five of the six six convicted for lying is out front door. And what's your reaction to the verdict comment. Roger Stone Longtime Donald. Called trump confidant found guilty of seven federal charges including lying to Congress about his communications with wikileaks. The group who released hack democratic not males prior to the two thousand sixteen election stone. Who is no stranger to? The cameras has denied the charges. Numerous times publicly never had any direct contact with Julian assange or wikileaks. I had no advance notice of the actual content or source of their material students. Wants trial was as much about president trump and his campaign as it was about stone in court. Prosecutors revealing new details previously redacted by I special counsel like the efforts stone made to keep trump's campaign informed wikileaks plans and how the president's people even trump himself allegedly welcomed that Intel wikileaks. I love wikileaks. Those emails and text messages would also show that he was communicating with the trump campaign about wikileaks plans. Every chance he got prosecutors told jurors hooting calls with trump himself. They showed jurors a line graph off of stones. Communications with top trump campaign officials highlighting spikes prosecutors say were key moments in the release of stolen data jurors also seeing seeing evidence of communication from witnesses this afternoon former trump. Chief Strategist Steve Bannon. WHO said stone would be considered a quote access point point to wikileaks and Julian assange if the campaign wanted it and former trump aide rick gates who testified about twenty sixteen conversation between trump and stone regarding what wikileaks planned to release that fall? He indicated more information would becoming gates told. Prosecutors trump told him adding it was in a way a gift we had not sought but was coming out the testimony directly contradicts with the President told Muller in written answers to questions posed during the special counsel's cels investigation trump said he didn't recall his conversations with stone and his discussions about wikileaks and the democratic. Hack a fact in the report port now clearer from the stone trial. That Democrats jumped on when questioning molar. This summer is it fair then that the president denied knowledge. The job himself or anyone else discussing wiki leaks dumps with Mr Jason and the question of whether trouble pardon. His friends still remains multiple sources. Actually told my colleague Kaitlan Collins at this is something. He's been waiting for the last several months and he really didn't take long after this verdict for trump to get on twitter and basically say how this was unfair but listen he yes some time. He's not GonNa be sentenced stone until February. Wow but convicted on all counts. Thank you so much brand and we'll be right back.

president President Trump President Ukraine Ambassador Sunlen Ambassador Sunland United States Sunland Joe Biden David Holmes President United States David Erin Burnett Roger Stone Alinsky CNN State Department congressman trump Kiev
Bonus Edition: Fiona Hill and David Holmes  vs. the Committee with No Bull

The Lawfare Podcast

2:41:30 hr | 9 months ago

Bonus Edition: Fiona Hill and David Holmes vs. the Committee with No Bull

"I'm Elena Kagan and this is the law fair podcast. Bonus edition on Thursday Fiona Hill the former National Security Council Russia adviser and David Holmes Counselor for Political Affairs at the US embassy in Ukraine testify before the House Intelligence Committee with that. Here's the testimony of Hill and homes with no no member infighting no speechifying and no unnecessary fluff. It's the law fair podcast. Bonus Edition Fiona Hill and David Holmes versus the committee with Nopal Elbow But let me ask you Dr Hill about you're concerned with that Russian narrative That it wasn't the Russians Russians that Engaged in interfere in our election in two thousand sixteen and of course this was given a boost. When President Trump Helsinki in the presence of Putin certain said that he questioned his own intelligence agencies? But why are the Russians pushing that narrative that it was Ukraine. How does that serve? Russian interests the Russians interests Funky to de legitimize our entire presidency. So one issue that I do want to raise and I think that this would resonate with our colleagues on the committee from the Republican Party. Is that the goal of the Russians was really to whoever became the president by trying to tip their hands on one side of the scale under the cloud so if secretary former first lady former Senator Clinton had been elected as president as indeed many expected in the run-up per the election in two thousand sixteen she too would have had major questions about the legitimacy. And I think what we're seeing here here as a result of all of these narratives as this is exactly what the Russian government was hoping for if the seed misinformation they see doubt they have everybody questioning the legitimacy of presidential candidate be it. President trump will potentially a president Clinton that they would pit one side of our electorate against the other that there would one party against the other. And that's why I wanted to make such a strong point at the very beginning because there were certainly individuals in many other countries. You had harsh words for both of the candidates who had harsh words for many other candidates during the primaries. We had a lot of people who are running for president on on the Republican side. Though many people are trying themselves to game the outcome as you know in the United Kingdom the bookies take pets you can go to lot Brooks William Hill Layer. Bet On who you think is going to be the candidate so the Russian government trying to learn their own bets but what they wanted to do was give spread. They wanted to make sure that whoever they had better on whoever they tried to tip the scales also experience some discomfort. Did they would hold on to them. In some way that they would create just the kind of tales that we have seen in our politics so I just want to again emphasize that we need to be very careful as we discuss all of these issues not to give them more fodder that they can use against us in two thousand twenty and I quite agree. There's an additional benefit and I think you're absolutely right. The Russians are equal opportunity meddlers. They will not only help one side. But they'll also just seek to sow discord in the United States Along ethnic lines religious lines geographic lines. But there's also a benefit now isn't there for Russia to put the blame on Ukraine to cast doubt on whether they intervene at all in our election and blame it on a US allies allies way of driving a wedge between the US Ukraine. Isn't that true. Well that's absolutely the case. And in fact he just made the point about. US allies the Russians like to put a lot of blame on US allies for incidents that they have perpetrators. You saw that recently with the United Kingdom in the Russian secret services attack on a former spy spy Mr Script Holland his daughter in Salisbury England. Where you may recall that the Russians actually accused the British government of perpetrating? This themselves so this falls into a long Patten of deflection and of the Russian government trying to pin the blame on someone else and as my colleague Mr Holmes here is laid out the Russians have a particular vested interest in putting Ukraine and Ukrainians and Ukrainian leaders in a very bad light. All of the issues that we started to discuss today and that you on the committee have been deeply involved old in began with Russia's illegal annexation of the peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine in two thousand fourteen in response twenty fifteen eighteen and all of the different acts of aggression that Russia's engaged in since starting a war in the dawn bus shooting down. Russian operatives McLean image. Seventeen over DON bus. As a later period there is a great deal of hostility and malign intent towards Crayon and it suits the Russian government Very much if we are also looking at Ukraine to somehow a perpetrator of malign acts against us. Thank you Mr. Holmes won't ask you a couple of questions and I think as often as the case for people I you know I was obviously at your deposition of red. You're opening testimony but as you learn more facts you start to see things in different light Even though your opening statement is very much consistent with your opening statements in that position and I was struck in particular by something sat on page ten of your opening opening statement while we had advised our Ukraine counterparts to voice a commitment to following the rule of law and generally investigate incredible corruption the allegations this was a demand presence. Alinsky personally commit on a cable. News Channel to a specific investigation of president. Trump's political rival level gets to a point. I made at the close of our hearing yesterday about hypocrisy here we are and we are are urging cranium to commit to fall in the rule of law as you said and only investigate genuine credible allegations. And what are we doing. And we're asking them to investigate the presence. Political rival Ukrainians are pretty sophisticated actors. Aren't they They can and recognized Apocrypha when they see it. What does that do door anticorruption efforts when their cranial perceived that we're engaging corruption ourselves yes yes sir so our longstanding policies to encourage them to establish and build rule of law institutions that are capable when their independence and that can actually pursue credible allegations? That's our policy. We've been doing that for quite some time with some success. So focusing on particular cases including particular cases where there is a interest list of presidents. Just not part of what we've done. It's hard to explain why we would do that. hearkens back to the conversation ambassador Volcker testified about when he urged Ukraine not to investigate or prosecute Porsche. ANCO and the reply from Mr Earmark was. Oh you mean like you want us to do with the Biden's on the Clintons they're sophisticated enough actors to recognize when we're saying do as we say not as we do are are they not. Yes Sir you also in your testimony and I was struck by this new today when even after after the aid is lifted. Ukraine still felt pressure to make these statements and you and a master tailor were worried that they were gonNA to do it on CNN and you said That Baxter Taylor against wrestling importance of staying out of the US politics and said he hoped no interviews. No interview was planned Mr Two year mark did not answer but shrugged in resignation as if to indicate that they had no choice in short. Everyone thought there was going to be an interview and decrying rainiest believed they had to do it. So your knowledge ing. I think Mr homes are not that Ukraine very much felt pressured to undertake these investigations. That the President Regiel Yanni and ambassador Sunland and others were demanding. Yes Sir and although the hold on the security assistance may have been lifted there still things. They wanted that they weren't getting including a meeting with the President and the Oval Office whether the hold securities assistant hold continued or not Ukraine stood at. That's something the president wanted and they still wanted to important things from the president. So I think that continues to this day. I think they're being very careful. They still need us now. Going forward in fact right now. Presents Alinsky is trying to arrange a summit meeting with President Putin in the coming weeks to his first face-to-face meeting with him to try try to advance the peace process ends our support. You need you need President Putin understand that America supports Dolinsky at the highest levels. So this is this is this. This doesn't end with the lifting of the security assistance. Hold Ukraine still needs us and as I said still fighting this war this very day I would underscore again as my colleague did. So Oh eloquently they got That's the reason. The aid was finally lifted Mr Goldman thank you MR chairman. Good morning to both of you yesterday. We heard testimony from ambassador. Gordon Sunland from the European Union who testified that president trump wanted Ukraine to announce the investigations into Biden the Biden's a Barista and the two thousand sixteen elections because they would benefit him politically and that he used the leverage coverage of that White House meeting and the security assistance to pressure President Alinsky to do so Dr Hill. You testified I believe that in mid June ambassador Sunland and told you that he was in charge of Ukraine policy. Is that right. That's correct. So yes who did he tell. You had put him in charge of Ukraine policy policy. You told me it was the president Mr Holmes. Did you also understand that ambassador. Sunland had been given some authority over Ukraine policy from the president. We understood that that he'd been told to work with Mr Giuliani. And did he hold himself out as having Direct contact knowledge of the president's priorities and interests. Yes Sir Mr Holmes. I'm going to go to that July twenty any sixth date when you overheard the conversation between Ambassador Sunland and president trump. And I'm going to ask you a a little bit about the lead up to that conversation. Before the launch that you described you said that you accompanied Ambassador Sunland Inland Volcker and Taylor to a meeting with presidents. Alinsky is that right. That's crack and you took notes at that meeting. Yes Sir and you review those notes before you came here to testify today. Yes and they were helpful to refresh your recollection as to what happened. Is that right. Yes during that meeting Presidents Alinsky said that on his phone call with President trump the previous day that three times president trump had mentioned sensitive issues. Did you understand what presidents Alinsky was referring to when he said the sensitive issues. I couldn't be sure what he was referring to. Until why later read the transcript of July twenty fifth call but I was aware of various contacts between the three Amigos and his government about this set of issues and after you read the call. What did you determine to be the sensitive issues that presidents alinsky referenced? The berries my Biden investigation. After this meeting thing with presidents Alinsky. You testified that Ambassador Sunland had a one on one meeting with Andre earmark a top aide twos Alinsky and that you were prohibited from from going into that meeting to take notes. Is that right. Yes and yesterday ambassador Sunland testified that he probably discussed the investigations wins with Mr Year. Mark did ambassador Sunland tell you at all what they discussed. He did not now after this meeting with Mr Year. Mock if you went to lunch and can you just describe where you were sitting at the restaurant. Yes sir. The restaurant has glass doors that open onto a terrace and we were at the first tables on the terrorists so immediately outside of the the interior of the restaurant. The doors are wide. Open There were there was tables table for four all. I recall it being two tables for to push together. In any case it was quite a wide table mm-hmm and the table was set. was sort of table. RUN DOWN The middle. I was directly across from ambassador. Sunlen close enough that we could share it. APPETIZER is between us and the two staffers off to our right at the next table. Now you said that at some point ambassador Sunlen Pulled out his cell phone and call to president trump. This was an unsecure cell phone in. Is that right. Yes in the middle of a restaurant in kief. Yes now you said that you were able to hear president trump's voice through the receiver. How how were you able to hear if it was not on speakerphone? It was several things. It was quite loud. When the came on quite distinctive believing Basser silent island also said yesterday often speak very loudly over the phone and I certainly experienced that he when the president came on he sort of winced and and held the phone away from his ear like this and he did that for the first couple exchanges? I don't know if you turn the volume down if you got used to it. If the president's moderate it is volume I don't know but that's how is able to hear it and so you were able to hear some of what president trump said to presidents alinsky is right right the first portion of the conversation. Yes and what did you hear. President trump say two. I'm sorry not presence ambassador. Sunland what I hear the president say ambassador Sunland Yeah. He clarified whether he was in Ukraine or not and he said yes. I'm here in Ukraine and then ambassador Sunland said said he loves her ASS. Eighty one he said he's GonNa do the investigation so you heard president trump. Ask Ambassador Sunlen. Is he going to do the the investigation. Yes Sir what was ambassador Sunland response. He said Oh yeah he's going to do it. He'll do anything you ask. and was that the end of the Ukraine portion of the conversation. Yes afterwards you described a a follow on conversation that you had with Ambassador Sunlen where you asked him. I think generally what did president trump think of Ukraine's is that right correct ambassador. Sunland say to you. He's he doesn't really care about Ukraine did use slightly more colorful language than that. He did what did he say that he does care about. You said he cares about big stuff. Did he explain what he meant by big stuff like I asked him. Well what kind the big stuff We have big stuff going on here like a war with Russia and he said no big stuff like the Biden investigation than Mr. Giuliani is pushing now. Were you familiar with the Biden investigation. That he referenced at that point Yes sir. And how do you have such a specific and clear recollection of this conversation station with President in your conversation with Ambassador Sunland yeah so this was a very distinctive experience in anything like this in my foreign service career someone at a lunch in a restaurant making a call on a cell phone to the president's days being able to hear his voice very distinctive personality. So we've seen on television very colorful language was used they were directly addressing something being that I had been wondering about working on for weeks and even months A topic that led to the recall of my former boss lost the former ambassador and so here was a person who's who said he had direct contact with the president and it said that over the course of time here he is actually Having that contact with the president hearing the president's voice and talking about this issue of the investigation that I've been hearing about so just to summarize during this phone call that you overheard ambassador Sunland have with President Trump. You heard president trump himself self. Ask the only question that you really hurt him ask. I believe Islam whether he was going to do the investigation to which ambassador. Senator Sunland responded that he would any wouldn't have in fact do anything that presidents Alinsky wants. Is that an accurate recitation of what happened. That's that's correct and then after that call you had a subsequent conversation with Ambassador Online where he and summoned substance told you that. The president doesn't care about Ukraine he only cares about big stuff related to himself and particularly Biden investigation. That Giuliani was pushing correct. Now a day before your launch with Ambassador Sunland president trump did speak with presidents. Alinsky as you as you referred and certainly the the president made it clear to presidents Alinsky that he cared about the Biden investigation. Now neither of you did listen to this call. But as you testified defied you both read it subsequent to its publication Dr Hill. You during your time two and a half years in the White House listen to a number of presidential phone calls is that right. That's right. Can you estimate approximately how many I contact. I mean sometimes there would be multiple calls during the week week. I was there for more than two years. So it's a fair number. Have you ever heard a call like this one that you read. I don't want to comment on this call Because this is an in my view executive privilege cal Thames of the testimony. Yes I think that As a threshold ladder. I think that there are issues of classification regarding head of state communications that we do want to be sensitive to in this foreign Among other issues understood. I'm really it just focused on this one call that has been declassified and published and just asking you whether you've ever heard any presidential phone call along those lines again. I'd like it to just focus in this testimony on this particular call and I will just say that I found this particular call subject matter on the way it was conducted surprising you said in your deposition testimony that you were very shocked and very saddened to read it. That's correct that because of the nature of the discussion the juxtaposition of the issues in which they were raised. And also the given the fact that uh-huh myself I actually opposed along with busted for some period. Having a call on us. It was very well prepared and that we were confident that the issues that Ukraine on the united sexist stereotypes. We'll most generally together interested in. We're going to be raised. I saw in this call that this was not the case. You also testified that you who were concerned that this call was turning a White House meeting into some kind of asset. Do you recall that testimony. I don't think it was specifically about dot coal but I recall the testimony because this was clearly the discussion preceding the call remember left on July nineteenth. The call took place us the following week and the months leading up to that. From may onwards it became very clear that the White House meeting itself was being predicated rated on other issues investigations and the questions about the election interference in two thousand sixteen Mr Holmes you who indicate in your opening statement that the chief of staff to Presidents Alinsky had indicated to you that in there in this phone call on on July twenty fifth there was a discussion about personnel issues related to the prosecutor. General's office after you read the call. Did you understand who who who. And what that was referring to. Yes Sir in that brief meeting with the chief of staff to. He's very confusing to me. Why in only the few minutes we had? Why why that would have been the issue? He raised so it wasn't until I read the transcript of the call him the twenty fifth. I understood that the president had specifically mentioned Prosecutor General Lute Sankoh Geico coup. This alinsky ministration was in the process of replacing and carving out all his sort of underlings who had been collaborating rating with him on some of the corruption. We saw there. And I believe you also said the President Lukashenko was the source of some of Mr Giuliani's public views and allegations allegations. Is that right. Yes or so about two weeks before the Press wave that we saw targeting battery advantage it became public. An embassy contacted reported to US privately that Mr Lukashenko was was sending these messages and had met with an American can journalists to try to get messages out what was the. US Embassy in Ukraine's view of prosecutor. General that Sankoh up he was not a good partner. He had failed to deliver on the promised reforms that he had committed me too when he took office and he was using his office to insulate and protect political allies while uh presumably enriching himself is another way to describe that corrupt. Yes now I'm going to take a look at a couple of excerpts from this July twenty fifth call all with you and and the first one occurs right after presidents Alinsky thanked president trump for the United States support in the area of defense fence and president trump immediately. Then says I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation. With Ukraine. They say crowd strike. I guess you have one of your wealthy people. The server they say Ukraine in has it. Now Dr Hill is this a reference to this Debunked conspiracy theory about Ukraine interference. In the two thousand sixteen eighteen election that you discussed at the in your opening statement as well as chairman Schiff the reference to crowd psych in the survey. Yes that's correct and it is your understanding that there is no basis for these allegations. Is that correct. That's correct now. Isn't it also also true that some of president trump's most senior advisors had informed him that this theory of Ukraine interference in the two thousand sixteen election. was false. That's correct so. Is it your understanding that president trump disregarded the advice of his senior officials about this theory instead. Listen to Rudy Giuliani's views. That's supposed to be the case. Yes and I also want to show one other exhibit of it. That goes back to what you were testifying earlier. Dr Hill about Russia's interest in promoting this theory. This is an excerpt from February second in two thousand seventeen news conference which we with President Putin and Prime Minister Orban of Hungary where Putin says second as we all know during the presidential campaign in the United States the Ukrainian government adopted a unilateral position in favor of one candidate more than that certain oligarchs certainly with the approval of the political leadership. Funded this candidate or female candidate to be more precise Mr Holmes. He spent spent three years as well in the US embassy in Russia. Why would it be to Vladimir Putin's advantage to promote this theory of Ukraine interference first of all to deflect from the allegations of Russian interference? Second of all to drive a wedge between the United States and Ukraine which Russia wants to essentially get back into its sphere of influence Thirdly to Besmirch Ukraine and its political leadership to degrade erode support for Ukraine from other key partners in Europe and elsewhere Dr Hill by promoting this theory of Ukrainian interference in two thousand sixteen election was president trump. Adopting Vladimir Putin's view view over zone senior advisers and intelligence officials. I think we have to be very careful about the way that we phrased that this. This is a view that President Putin and the Russian security services and many Octopus in Russia have promoted. But I think that this view because also got some traction POPs in parallel on separately here in the United States and those two things have over time started to fuse together. Well back in May of this year do you recall that. President trump had a phone conversation in early May with President Putin I do and that he also then met in mid-may with Prime Minister Orban who had joined President Putin at this press conference. That's correct now. That happened in between the time. When presidents Alinsky was elected on April twenty first and his inauguration on May twentieth is that right correct and in fact president? Isn't it true that president trump had asked vice president pence to attend the the inauguration after his phone call with Presidents Alinsky on April twenty first. I'm not sure that I can say that. President trump and the vice president in pence. I was not in any meeting in which that took place. I can say that I myself and many others. The scene in the State Department quite keen very he could have vice president pence go to Ukraine to represent the United States government and the president. And is that. Also your recollection mister homes that you wanted vice president president pence to attend. Yes sir. We understood that that was the plan. Now Jennifer Williams from the office. The vice president testified here that on May thirteenth which is the same day that president trump met with prime minister. ORB On the president called all DAW vice president trips vice president pence his trip for unknown reasons but before the inauguration date had been scheduled and Dr Hill were you aware also that that during that period there was a lot of publicity. And I think Mr Holmes you reference this in your opening an excitement as well about Rudy Giuliani's interest in these investigations in Ukraine certainly away. Yes and the around this time Dr Hill you also. I believe testified. Defied that Ambassador Bolton head express some views to you about Mr Giuliani's interest in Ukraine. Do you recall what you said. Yes yes I do. Do you recall it was part of a conversation about the things That Mr Giuliani was saying very frequently in public. We saw them often didn't assault him often on television. Making these statements and I had also ready brought to on busted. Bolton's attention the attacks the smear campaign campaign against on bus Giovanni Vich expressed regret about how this is unfolding and in fact the shameful way in which I'm busted was was being smeared in tax and I'd asked if there was anything that we could do about it and busted Bolton had looked pained basically the indicated with body language. That was nothing we could do about it. And then in the cost of discussions said that Rudy Giuliani was hungry. That was going to blow. Everyone up do you understand what he meant by that I did. Actually what did he mean. Well I think he meant that. Obviously what Mr Giuliani was saying was pretty explosive lows. In any case he was frequent television. Making quite incendiary remarks about everyone involved in this are that he was clearly pushing forward issues and ideas. That would probably come back to hunters and in fact. I think that's where we are today. Mr Holmes did the Ukrainians understand and that Rudy Giuliani represented the president's views. I believe they did. I was reaching out to them directly. He also best ambassador which is removal. I think is Roselle relevant to this this portion inquiry because she was removed following this media campaign. Hey in which Rudy Guiliani Guiliani associates were very prominent and criticizing her for not taking seriously some of the theories Issues that that later came up and so when she was removed I you know. Commentators and Ukraine believed that loot Sankoh. Working with Giuliani early on he had succeeded in getting her removed so they were already aware of Mr Giuliani and his influence the issues that he was promoting and the then and ultimately that he was able to get an ambassador removed partly because of that so he was someone to contend with and then in addition immediately we after the inauguration he began reaching out to this Alinsky administration key figures in this one game ministration and continue to do that. Let's focus on the inauguration. gration for a minute you would you escorted for lack of a better word the US delegation. Around so I joined them in some of their meetings but but not for the entire day and who was the official who was on the official delegation. Yes it was Five people so as the head of the delegation was Secretary Perry and it was a massive Volker represent the State Department Vassar saw are temporary charge. A Joseph Pennington and Alex Vitamin representing the White House and did the delegation have a meeting with presidents. Alinsky that you attended yes and you testified. I think in your Previously that Secretary Akrotiri Perry gave a list of some sort to presidents Alinsky at that meeting. Do you recall that yes in the meeting. With the President Secretary Perry's the head of the a delegation opened the meeting of the American side and had a number of points he made and during that period he handed over a piece of paper. I did not see what was was on the paper but Secretary Perry described what was on the paper as a list of trusted individuals for recommended secretary presence. Alinsky Alinsky could draw from that list for advice on energy sector reform issues. And do you know who was on that list. I didn't see the list. I no other colleagues. There are other people who've been in the mix for a while on that set of issues other people's Secretary Perry has mentioned as being people to consult on reform. And are they Americans. Yes now do also recall colonel. Kinmen Spoke to presidents Alinsky in that meeting. Yes and what did he say to presidents Alinsky and in terms of some of the issues that we're addressing here in this investigation. Yes he was the last to speak. He made a general point about the importance of Ukraine national security. And he you said it's very important that this alinsky administration stay out of domestic politics. Was it your understanding that presidents Alinsky and the Ukrainians were already already starting to feel some pressure to conduct these political investigations. Yes and those were the ones related to Biden and Barista in the two thousand sixteen election. Correct now Dr Hill. You also testified that around the same time in May learned that president trump was receiving information from someone L. said the National Security Council. Is that right. That's not quite right. I was told in passing that someone else the national security council that the president may want to speak to them because of some materials related to Ukraine and that person indicate that the president thought that was the director rector of Ukraine. That was correct. Who I brief conversation just to be clear? Who is the director of Ukraine director? For Ukraine's Alex Vin men colonel. Who did the individual and the executive secretary's office refer to the individual? Just the name cash. Did you know who that was us. Initially I was thinking about it by to search my mind and the cash the I knew the National Security Council Cash Patel in Kutch Patel did not work on Ukraine crane matters. That you oversaw. Is that right not that I ever saw no so. The indication is that Cash Patel had provided some information directly to the president without your knowledge that seemed to be indication. Now I want to go back to the July twenty fifth call right now where. President trump in another excerpt asked presidents alinsky about his political potential political opponent Vice President Joe Biden in this excerpt. The the president said the other thing. There's a lot of talk about Biden's son. That Biden stopped prosecution and a lot of people. WanNa find out about that so whatever you can do. With the Attorney Attorney General would be great Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution. So if you can look into it it sounds horrible to me now. Uh Dr Hill. This was of course one of the allegations. That Rudy Giuliani was pushing. Is that right. Correct now confirmed in this July. Twenty fifth call. The president was also interested in it. Yes ambassadors Volcker and Sunland have tried to draw a distinction between their understanding of the connection connection between Barista and the Biden's but Dr Hill was it apparent to you that when President Trump Giuliani or anyone else was pushing for an investigation Shen into Barista that the reason why they wanted that investigation related to what President Trump said here the violence. It was very apparent to me that that was is what Rudy Giuliani intended. Yes intended to convert the BARISTA was linked to the Biden's and he said this publicly repeatedly Mr Holmes you also understood that Burris Mo was code for Biden's yes and do you think that anyone involved in Ukraine matters in the spring and the summer would understand that as well yes now are either dodger. Hillary you aware of any evidence to support the allegations against Vice President Biden. I'm not now. And in fact. Mr Holmes. The former Prosecutor General of Ukraine Rain Vice President Biden encouraged to fire was actually corrupt. Is that right correct and was not pursuing suing corruption investigations and prosecutions right. My understanding is The general time Shokhin was not at at that time pursuing investigations of Burrito or the violence and in fact removing the corrupt prosecutor general was part of the United States anti-corruption in policy. Isn't that correct. That's not just us. But all of our allies and other institutions are revolving Ukraine at the time. Now Dr Hill you you indicated earlier that you had understood that a White House meeting was conditioned on the pursuit by Ukraine of these investigations. I want to focus on July tenth meeting in the White House where that came to light. You indicated that in your testimony that there was a large meeting ambassador. Bolton ran where ambassadors Sunland Volker Secretary Perry also attended. Is that right that's correct. Yes and why were they included in that meeting with of two. Ukrainian officials about national security of matters or the initial intent is not to include them. We'd anticipated that To Ukrainian officials would have a number of meetings is usually the procedure. Are there would be meetings at the State Department potentially also at the Energy Department and then there was a request to have on buses sunland and Volker included coming directly from their offices and as a result of that clearly given. Ah The important role that Secretary Perry was playing in the energy sector reform in Ukraine. And the fact that you'd also been in the delegation to the presidential essentially inauguration and Ukraine. We decided that it would be better than to include all three of them now toward the end of this meeting. The Ukrainians raised the ongoing. They're ongoing desire for an Oval Office. Meeting is that right. That's correct and what happened after they did that. Well I listened very carefully to ambassadors just sunland testimony yesterday so I want to actually point out something where I think. It's easy to explain why he had a different interpretation of how this came into being mm-hmm the meeting edition being scheduled for about forty five minutes to an hour and it was definitely in the wrap up phase Of the meeting when this occurred. We've gone through a series of discussions on Sunday done earlier. Coors at this point the designated national security advisor of Ukraine really wanted to get into the weeds of how you might reform the National Security Council. He talked to me about this prior to the meeting. He was hoping and it's hard. It's opportunity with the National Security Advisor. United States to get his first-hand opinions and thoughts on what might happen. We'd also wanted to go through discussion about how important it was for Ukraine to get its energy sector reform underway and clearly Secretary Perry had some talking points to this. As an issue that I'm basketball was also interested interested. In and then we knew that the Ukrainians would have on their agenda inevitably the question about a meeting. And so as we get through the main discussion. We're going into that. Wrap up phase the Ukrainians Mr Donnie. Luke starts to ask about a White House meeting and busted bulletin was trying to carry this back. Although he's the national security advisor he's not in charge of scheduling the meeting we have input recommending the meetings and this goes through a whole process. So it's not I'm busted a Bolton's role to stop pulling out the schedule and start saying well. We're going to look and see if this Tuesday. This month is going to work with this and he does not as a matter of cost like to discuss the details of these meetings. He likes to leave them to the appropriate stuff for this so this was already going to be an uncomfortable. Issue and as Ambassador Bolton was trying to move ooh that part of the discussion of where he was going to try to deflect it onto another topic. I'm buses some. Linda leaned in basically to say well. We have an agreement comment that there will be a meeting. Specific investigations a put underway. And that's when I saw ambassador Bolton Stiffen I was sitting behind him in the chair and I slow him sit back slightly like this. He'd been moving forward. Like I am to the table for me that was an unmistakable body body language and it caught my attention and then he looked up to the clock. And I'll watch towards the wrist. In any case again I was sitting behind him and basically said well. You know it's been really good to see you. I'm afraid I've got another another meeting ambassador. Sunlen say who his agreement on in this White House meeting was with in particular juncture. I don't believe so it was later which I'm sure you'll want to talk about that. He did say specifically. What did he say later letter? He said that he had an agreement with chief-of-staff Mulvaney in return for investigations. This meeting would get scheduled specific at that point Later about the investigations that he was referring to the investigations in Burma. Now did you have a conversation with Ambassador Bolton after this subsequent meeting with them Bassett or Sunland I had discussion with him. Busted Bolton both after the meeting in his office a very brief one and then one immediately afterwards the subsequent meeting so the subsequent meeting or the after both meetings when you spoke to him and relate to him. What ambassador Sunland said what it Ambassador Bolton say to you just want to highlight first of all I'm busted Bolton wanted me to hold back in the room immediately after the meeting again I was sitting on the suffer with a colleague in that second meeting? What what did he was? He was making a very strong point that he wanted to know exactly what was being said on when I came back and related I take it to him. He had some very specific instruction for me and I'm presuming. That serve. Specific instruction was that I had to go to the lawyers this to John. Eisenberg our senior counsel for the National Security Council to basically say utilize Bergen Buster. Baltin told me that I am not part of of the this whatever drug deal that Mulvaney in sunland cooking up. What did you understand into mean by the drug deal that Mulvaney? In San Lin were cooking. I took it to mean investigations for meeting. Did you go speak to the lawyers. I certainly did. You relate late everything that you just told us precisely and then all the details of how. The meeting unfolded as well which I gave a full description of this in my October over fourteen deposition Mr Holmes. You have testified that by late August you. Has You had a clear impression that the Security Assistance Instance hold was somehow connected to the investigations that president trump wanted. How did you conclude that? How did you reach that clear earlier conclusion? So we've been hearing about the investigation since March months before and we've been presents. Alinsky had received a letter congratulatory letter from the president. Saying you'd be pleased to medium. Following his inauguration Asian in May and we hadn't been able to get that meeting and then the security came up with no explanation and and I'd be surprised if any of the Ukrainians you said earlier discussed earlier. You know sophisticated people when they receive no explanation. Listen for why that was in place they would have drawn that conclusion. Because the investigations were still being pursued. The whole was still remaining without explanation. Correct so this to you was the only logical conclusion that you could reach. Correct sort of like two plus two week was four. Exactly Chairman I yield remember or their counsel for the first round of their forty. Five minute questions. I want to basic facts on the table of individuals that were involved in the two thousand sixteen election. Just see who you know who you've met with. I saw start with you Mr Holmes. Have you met with or do you know Alexander to Lupu. Uh thank you almost. Could you pull your microphone. No do you know. Nellie we met Bruce or Glenn Simpson. No thank you. Same question for you Dr Hill. Have you met with Alexander Chalupa. No no bruce or only in the cost of my previous position position is the notion intelligent selfish Russia while he attended some of the meetings. I presided of years ago. That's a long time ago. Correct Glenn Simpson. No doctor. He'll in your testimony. You said that In your deposition. Excuse me the Christopher Steele was your counterpart at one time. Is this correct. That's correct. Yes you testify to met with Christopher Steele in two thousand sixteen. I assume that still correct. That's correct yes and the only thing we didn't get on that is Do you know about when that was in two thousand sixteen and how many times. I'm afraid I don't. I actually had met with him what you asked me actually in the deposition opposition when the most recent time to hide with him in two thousand sixteen and he retired from the British intelligence services in two thousand nine which is asking about thousand sixteen. Eighteen thousand sixteen. I don't recall but I did meet with him. Sometimes before to two thousand sixteen. But you don't remember the date down now you stated in your deposition that a colleague had showed you the still dossier before it was published. Who was that colleague? That was one of my colleagues. The Brookings Institution who was at that was the Brookings Institution President Strobe Talbott who had been sent a copy of this and he shared it with you. That was the day before it was published in Buzzfeed you mentioned in your deposition. Also that you thought that it was a quote the dossier was a rabbit hole. Is that still your testimony. Correct do you. Do you know who paid Christopher Steele to do To generate the still dossiers. Several of them at the time I did not no I. I understand from the media that it was through. GPS fusion if that's not correct and there was a law firm involved but you know who the source of the money was. I didn't at the time. No I did. Not Do you want now. I've read in reports and thanks to your colleagues as well that it was the DNC is. I'm led to believe and the Clinton campaign pain. I don't know that for sure Mr Castro doctor you your last day at the National Security Council was July nineteenth. Is that correct. Yes so you are involved with July twenty fifth call and you weren't involved with any of the relevant activities that he's related to the pause and the aid that's correct and as of July nineteenth. Did you believe that a call was going to be scheduled for the the twentieth. I personally did not believe that it was going to be scheduled. Did know and what was what was the thinking at the NFC as of July nineteenth about such a call. I've learned from the depositions to be clear here that POPs the awareness that the might be a call ambassadors. Just sunland if you may recall showed an exchange with the person who was taking over from my position Tim Morrison in which he indicated that there would be a call coming up. I was not aware of that. Okay that's just say obviously and understanding about that Cole and were you in favor of of such a call. The nineteenth actually. I was nuts and I did say something about in the opening. Parts of the sessions today. Okay and how about embassador Bolton Knowledge combusted sunland said in the email that bolden was an an agreement to my knowledge Bolton was not in agreement at that particular juncture in my knowledge his opposition was it was based on the fact that he didn't feel the call had been properly prepared and as as I said earlier that we wanted to make sure that there was going to be a fulsome bilateral. US Ukraine agenda. That was discussed. which is usual with these calls and you were? You surprised that called when we were scheduled I was when I learned about it. That's right and did you have any communication with anyone back at year-old staff with about how that came to be. I did not know you did learn about the the pause and the security assistance aid silent about July eighteen said so the day before I left and there were several meetings about this I believe he testified to. I said that I knew there was going to be a meeting in that attack timeframe and there was put onto the schedule for the following week. But of course I had left and so I didn't attend that and fair to say that it stops and starts in innate like this sometimes do happen. That's correct and I believe you testified that there was a freeze put on all kinds of aid and assistance because it was in the process at that time there were significant reviews a foreign assistance going on. That's also correct. What else can you tell us about that about? The foreign assistance assistance as I understood that being a directive for a wholesale review of our foreign policy foreign policy assistance assistance and the ties between Al Foreign Policy Objectives on the assistance. This has been going on actually for many months and in the period when I was wrapping up my time there that'd be more scrutiny event-specific assistance to specific sets of countries result of the overall view review. And at this time as well time Ambassador Volker and Bachelor Sunland they'd they'd become a little bit more involved with Ukraine policy. Well I'm busted. Volka was always involved in Ukraine policy. At least since the beginning of his appointment as the special envoy for a negotiation towards The war between Ukraine and Russia and DUMBASS. Can you tell us about autographed Basketball Volker. I'm busted Balka is an extraordinary accomplished diplomat. I've worked with him in many capacities. Previously you know his bio. He's being the ambassador awesome to NATO. He's had a number of positions at the State Department. And actually I know him personally so the truth that we're trying to get. How did who knows who? and WHO's mets. I know bus developed really well on a personal level as well. Okay and you said he's a man of integrity that's correct and always acted in the best interest of the United States. Absolutely yes. When did you first learn ambassador inlands involvement well it came in different ways ambassadors? Sunlen does the buses is the EU had some perfectly logical involvement in the creation portfolio. We work very closely with the European Union on matters related to Ukraine Ukrainian dialogue with Russia was in a format known as the Minsk process which was led by the French and the Germans ambassador Golkar trying to find out ways in which he could work closely with the French and Germans to move along the on the resolution of the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Obviously the European Union as the umbrella organization for Europe in terms of funding and assistance was heavily the active in offering financial assistance to the Ukrainian government as well as humanitarian assistance in the conflict. So as perfectly logical that I'm busted there's some. Some kind of rollers are buses to the European Union. Did you have any concerns when when he presented himself to you. You is somebody with a major role. I did it the time in which he presented it to me this after busted yvonna ventured being pushed out of her a position and it was at that juncture that ambassador some Lynn's role seem to grow larger. And did you express any concerns him directly. I express expressed concerns to him directly concerns. I asked him quite bluntly in a meeting that we heart in June. Two thousand nine hundred thousand this after the the presidential inauguration when I'd seen that he had started to step up and much more of a proactive role on Ukraine. What was his role here and he said that he was in charge of Ukraine? And I said well who put you in charge and buses sunland and he said the president surprise you when he told you hit it did surprise me. We talk no directive directive. We hadn't been told this. I'm busted Bolton had never indicated in anywhere. The teeth thought that I'm buses. Sunland was playing a leading role in Ukraine. I'm believe he used the term. A large remit that he characterized. He had been given a large remit from the president. I can't remember what I said re-met but it was portfolio. So he was constantly. You know these are all synonyms. He was talking to us about the fact that he'd been given a very broad portfolio by the president. He said his job was to go out and make deals sales in Europe and as you know yourself into his testimony yesterday very carefully as well he said the anything that had to do with the EU itself on the European Union member states stats was within his portfolio. We asked embassador online about that his deposition. He conceded that he may have been spinning a little bit when he said that the president specifically gave him that role and he indicated that his authority was coming at least a little bit more from the Secretary Secretary of state at any point time. Was that related to you at different points. He mentioned talking directly to the chief of Staff Mulvaney Anti also also talked about Secretary Pompeii but it was very in fact the people in the room and the meeting in which he asserted this to me that it was the president who had put put him in charge of this. Were you encouraged as of your your last date day in the office that. US policy towards the Ukraine was headed in the right direction. I was is not well. I was concerned about two things in particular one was again the removal of ambassador. OSITA and again I will say for the that. The president has a perfect right to remove any ambassador at any time for any reason but I was very concerned about the circumstances houses in which her reputation had been maligned repeatedly on television and all kinds of exchanges. I felt that was completely unnecessary. If the president wanted to to remove an ambassador which he did quite frequently a number of ambassadors removed who were not political but career officials that was done without these kinds of interventions. I wondered what that what message was being sent so there was that and then in the second front. It was very clear at this point that there was. Let's just say a different channel in the operation and relations to Ukraine one that was domestic and political in nature. And that was very different from the channel. All the loop. However you like it? That I and my colleagues League's version where we were focused on bilateral relations and US foreign policy towards Ukraine and these two things said diverged at this point in the run-up up to Bassett or his separation from post. Did you have any communications with officials at the State Department about your concerns ideas. And who did you relate. Those concerns too. I rented those concerns directly to my counterpart. Who was acting Assistant Secretary Phil Rica? Who I know you've spoken to? I also spoke to David David Hale in the context of the larger meetings about many other issues. I mean again I covered a broad portfolio myself and often would talk about individual I tim's and I had private discussions with Deputy Secretary Sullivan. and He of course is the before committees here in the cost of his nomination action to be on buses Russia and has spoken about himself. Okay and you. You advocated officials about your concerns about the information formation spread about ambassador that's correct the trump administration changed courses from its predecessor and provided provided lethal defensive assistance to Ukraine. Where you in favor of arming the Ukrainian with the Javelin I was initially in two thousand fifteen before I joined the government and and I'm sure that many people on the committee of seeing that I wrote an opinion piece with a colleague at the Brookings Institution in that juncture? Because I was very worried at that particular a point in time that the Korean military was not in a fit state to really take on board sophisticated. Weapons be defensive or offensive weapons. I and I worried that there was not a long term. Sustainable plan given the overwhelming force at the Russians could apply against the Ukrainians however when I came into government in twenty not seventeen and started to interact with all of my colleagues in the Pentagon. And you heard Laura Cooper here. Yesterday I realized in fact that that being an awful lot of work done on this and that was was a clear and consistent plan for the sustainability long-term off the Ukrainian military so I changed my mind. Okay and you're you're a UH lead. The only witness that we spoke into that has been able to articulate the opposition to providing the Jefflin's and as we understand it during the Obama Administration Asian. The interagency consensus was in fact to provide the Javelin 's but but but they were not provided for you aware of the decision back. Then I think it was very much made on a political Michael Basis about concerns that this would provoke the Russians depending on how this was presented and we were very mindful of that also when there were the discussions internally about the lethal defensive weapons inside of the administration Mr Holmes. You're on the ground in Keiv. And Javelin have now been uh authorized provided. What's the view from the field the US embassy as to the effectiveness of the Javelin? They're they're an important strategic deterrent. They're not actively employed in combat operations right now but the mere idea that were the Russians is to advance substantially using certain kinds of armor that Ukrainians would have this capability. Deters them from doing so it also thereby sends a very important symbol. All symbolic message that Ukrainian military that they have access to the high end technology and then we trust them to do it. I'd only add. Also they they've offered to buy some using using their own funds. The initial Toronto was provided through a program to do that but they've now offered to spend their own money to buy more so I think they think they're important and ambassador. Taylor is testified testified. Mr Kent has testified that this is in fact. The consensus of of the Inter agency providing the Javelin is is. Is it the in your experience. Working with embassador Taylor was he also very Very much an advocate for this. Yes Mr Holmes I want to go back to name. Some Americans now talk a little bit about Ukrainians since our Ukrainian government officials. Are you familiar with Sir hairless. Shinko yes have you met with him he. He was a journalist. He was in the parliament. See currently in the parliament journalists again again. Are you aware that when he was in the parliament that he had provided information to fusion. GPS operative tamed. Nellie for I'm not aware of nearly four. I'm not aware of who he provided information to. I'm aware that as a journalist. He's provided information. Well this is. He was in the parliament at the time. This is in the two thousand sixteen campaign. He provided widely known as the Black Ledger. Have you ever heard of the Black Ledger. Half and the Black Ledger is that seen. As credible information yes the blackledge is credible. Yes Bob Muller did not find it. Credible do dispute. What Miller's findings were? They didn't use it the prosecution or on the report. I'm not aware that Bob Muller Tonight and find it credible I think it was evidence in criminal proceedings and its credibility was not question those proceedings expended expert on that so the motivation for Cinco As was reported to was to go after trump campaign official and undermined trump's candidacy. Are you aware of that. If you mean by the release of the Black Ledger I think less Schenk owes a motivation was the motivation. He's always expressed. which is to expose corruption in Ukraine right? But he's admitted motivation was to partly at least undermine the trump oh candidacy that he did not support. He is not said that to me if he said that you autocorrect for it. And you're aware that the you heard Dr Hill's testimony but the still dossier that contained initially that initial information that was spent in the FBI. Were you aware that the Democrats had paid for that information so I never had any involvement directly accusing involvement is asking if you not not even if you knew at the time but you now know today that the Democrats had paid for that information so you want to be clear that all that happened before I wrap in Ukraine so I don't have any firsthand on accusing the involvement of the dossier but I want to be clear about that and then in addition I have read about those issues. But I'm not an expert on them but you're not disputing that the Democrat Democrats and the Clinton campaign pain or the source of funds that funded the steele dossier. I wouldn't be positioned dispute that Sir. Do you think it's appropriate for political parties to to run operatives in foreign countries to dig up dirt on their opponents. No doctor. He'll do you you think it's appropriate for political parties to pay operatives to dig up dirt on their opponents us. Castor turned to the the Presidential Inauguration Ambassador Volker testified that he was very pleased with the size of the delegation Asia. Although the vice president was unable to make the trip secretary Kerry Ambassador Volker Ambassador Silent and I understand Dr Hill you were involved oft with some of the logistics in putting putting the delegation what. What can you tell us about the vice? The president's role in attending not attending well. I know that you've heard the testimony of Jeff Williams from the vice president's office and I defer to her Being much closer to the decision making about the vice president's attendant I will say that tie many of us hope that the vice president would be able to attend a what well I know from my perspective because I was not involved intimately in discussions with the vice president's all his immediate staff was there was some questions about the schedule. As you all know the president and vice president can not be out of the country at the same time on. There was some questions about presidential travel in the same timeframe and There was a quite a bit of back and forth as to whether it would be really feasible for the vice president in that timeframe to go so that was I was aware of. I wasn't aware to the extent of the discussions that obviously Ms Williams was involved in. The president is travelling in Japan. And then he was headed to Europe for the D Day anniversary the vice president's office according to as Williams provided four days the end of end of May the twenty nine thirty thirty first June first and as it turned out the Ukrainians Ukrainians decided. I believe it was on May sixteenth to schedule The inauguration for four days later and by this point in time The vice president had been rerouted for a trip to Canada about. And I just you want to ask you whether you don't have any evidence that the vice president was encouraged not to attend for any other reason. Do you do not but again I defer to Ms Williams the Miss Williams testimony was that she just she she heard from those chief staffs assistant that the vice president one was not able to go the the leap that the reason for that was related to any of these investigations hasn't been fully established. I just note from the materials you provider for your deposition. The there is discussion whether president or on May have influenced president trump's decision on that may thirteenth day A.. And the do you remember when the meeting was with President Oregon. I do. When was that not wasn't that's correct? So do you remember what time of Day it was on the thirteenth off. To be honest I usually these meetings around lunchtime sometime in that time firm the kind of early early to mid part of the day. I can't speak for sure and I just want to be very clear that I cannot speak about head of state engagement okay. The Jennifer Williams testified that she learned about eleven or eleven. Fifteen and the meeting with President Oregon was was not scheduled until later in the afternoon. According the your schedule was one forty. Five is that consistent with your recollection lunchtime timeframe now spending a woman has lunch but overall given the four days notice given Secretary Perry's involvement. Do you think that delegation was good sized group. I do not me also make a point that we don't try to make these allegations lodged. This is on the taxpayer's dime and it's pretty expensive getting people that if you have to get military and we tried to keep them small. If we had a long lead time pops we would have made the arrangements. The full days is not a lot of time to make an advancement in secretary. Perry had become interested in some of the energy related issues in the Ukraine actually recommended that Secretary Perry. Ah The Legion along with others. And what can you tell us about his involvement in some of the Ukrainian Policy Well Secretary Perez engagement are Mendes made again perfect sense given his role as secretary of energy also his deep knowledge of the energy industry. His former Governorship Secretary Equity Perry himself is an extraordinary good advocate of US interests particularly in the energy sphere Krenz Achilles heel in addition to its its military disadvantage with Russia is in fact. Energy Ukraine remains for now the main transit point for Russian oil and gas pipelines and some to Europe and this has been manipulated repeatedly especially since two thousand six by the Russian government and in fact many of you he will remember in the Reagan era. There was a huge dispute between the United States and Europe about the about. Whether it made sense for Europe prepare to build pipelines from the then Soviet Union to bring gas sir to European Marcus Mr Holmes what was what was your view the delegation do you think it was the the right sized group right level of Prestige to signal to the incomings Alinsky administration at the US stands behind. And I think it was fine in that regard. Okay since we're on the topic of of Ukraine energy. I think it's a good way for us to segue into Barista mode which I assume both of you are familiar with. You've heard about it for many many many years. You're on the ground there now. I know you weren't there. But at the time. But in September two thousand fifteen Then Ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt Obama pointed career ambassador. I'm sure you know him. I do credible. Yes successful zestful ambassador. I'm sure he called for an investigation into the owner. BEREA SMA President Bruce. Are you the millions of that. Yes did you know about Deputy Assistant Secretary of State's Kent's concerns about the potential conflict of interest with Hunter Biden. Sitting on the Board of Bruce. Ma I would. Defer to Jorge CANTU is involved at the time. It has an expert on those issues as you know that the financial records show that the Ukrainian Natural Gas Company breached marauded more than three million dollars to the American accounts of Hunter Biden. I've heard that June. Were you familiar with that. Dr Hill from newspaper reports. Did you know that Baristas American in this is back to you Mr Holmes. Did you know that Baristas American legal. Representatives met with Ukrainian officials just days after the vice president force. The firing of the country's chief prosecutor. No did you know that Baristas American lawyers tried to secure a meeting with the new state prosecutor the same day the predecessor. Victory Tokens Shokhin's firing was announced. As you know that Joe Biden called Ukrainian president for Chanko at least three three times in February two thousand sixteen. Shortly after the President and owner briefs Miss Home was raided on February second by the state prosecutor's office no Devin Archer and Hunter Biden reached out to the deputy secretary of state. Tony Blinken shortly after the raid on. Barista no Dr Hill did you know about. I don't want to go through and ask all those questions. I also did not know about this. Okay so you obviously know that. The president had concerns about Verissimo had concerns about two thousand sixteen election meddling by the Ukrainians when you were when you were in there as as the head of the Ukraine desk. Did you ever raise any of these. Did you ever briefed the president or raise it up to him. Bassett or Bolton about any concerns through two thousand seventeen and eighteen that concern two thousand sixteen election Medellin or or Bre- smoke concerns. The whole briefing process didn't really work in the way that you're suggesting there. So if the president to dust about any of this information would have been provided for him just to be very clear. Ukraine was not a top foreign policy priority in this period in the same way that many other issues that we could talk about from from Syria to Turkey and others are so that weren't that frequent briefings on Ukraine. Debriefings would take place when there was a scheduled meeting With Ukrainian had not as we know the having been too many of those so just to as far as you know you did no no briefings. No the papers answered no questions as it relates to the two thousand sixteen election or briefs During your time there I did not know castricone doctor told us during your deposition indeed a there. There are perceived conflict of interest his troubles when the child of government officials involved with with something that government official has official policy role incorrect. I think any family member of any a member of the US government Congress or the Senate is open to all kinds of questions about optics and of outside influence. If it takes pass any kind of activity that could be misconstrued as being related to their parents or other family members work so as a matter of course yes I think that's the case getting back to ambassador. Silence testified that every now and then he made a habit of name dropping his interactions with the president. That's correct yes. I believe you also told us. There were instances where you would run into him on the campus and he would say I'm here to see the president of been in to see the president and you had occasion to circle back and found out that wasn't the case that's correct and I just WanNa give you an opportunity. He he testified about some sort of coffee he had with you on in your last day. And I think when the deposition transcript was released Your your council indicated that that was is completely fabricated on ambassador. Someone's part and I just want to give you an opportunity to to address that. Yes I mean fortunately absolutely this is the federal government. We don't have coffee machines readily in our office. If you'd come to my office and that time the best I offered you was a cup of water from the Water Fountain outside in my office so the coffee that I'm busted us on London I shed was actually we run into each other rather he found out I was going to be there and then asked me to meet Tim for coffee. In Jackson Hole Wyoming in two thousand eighteen in August so this is a full year before I left. That was a very nice coffee. So popsy conflated to those two meetings together. The meeting he was referring to he had come into meet with our director for the European Union. This was in my last week in the office and as I was in the office at the same time for a brief period before going into another meeting and it was my last week in the office we agreed to sit down on with the director of the European Union with actually Colonel Vin men on the assistant that Amazon Limited brought with him from the state. Department's the Rock. She four of us in not meeting an unfortunate wasn't over coffee and he went on to indicate that you were upset and you were upset with I do mouth sorry enough. You indicated. You were upset. And you're upset with investor Bolton upset with the way things are going when I believe your council said that was outright fabrication. Well I think you might recall in my deposition on October fourteenth that I said that very unfortunately I had a bit of a blow. Oh up with on buses. Sunderland had a couple of testy encounters with him. One of those was in June eighteen when I actually said to him who put you in charge of Ukraine and in all admit I was a bit rude. And that's when he told me the president would shut me up on this Other meeting it was about fifteen twenty minutes exactly as depicted it was. I was actually to be honest angry with him. And you know I hate to say it but often when women show anger. It's it's not fully appreciated. It's often pushed onto emotionally shoes. Pop saw deflected onto other people. I was angry angry about was that he wasn't coordinating with us. Now actually realize having listened to his deposition that he was absolutely right that he wasn't coordinating with us. Because we weren't doing the same thing that he was doing so I was upset with him that he wasn't fully telling us about all of the meetings that he was having and he said to me. But I'm briefing the president. I'm breathing chief stuff mulvaney. I'm briefing Secretary Palm Pale and I've talked to ambassador. Bolton who else do I have to deal with on the point is we have a robust into agency process that deals with Ukraine. This includes Mr. Holmes includes ambassador. Taylor's in Ukraine is includes needs a whole load of other people but it struck me one yesterday when you put up on the screen ambassadors sunland emails and who was on these emails and he said these are people who need to know that he was absolutely right because he was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security not foreign policy and those two things had just diverged so he was correct John. I had not put my finger on at the moment but I was irritated with him. I'm with him that he wasn't fully coordinating and I did say to him. I'm busted Assam. Lynn Gordon I think this is all going to blow up and hey we are and after I left to my next meeting eating I would directive of the European Union. Talk Too much fair the for a full half hour later trying to ask him about how we could coordinate better. How about Komo coordinate backdrop? After I had left the office and his feeling was the National Security Council was always trying to block him. What we were trying to do was block us from straying straying into domestic or personal politics and that was precisely what I was trying to do? But I'm busted. Assembly is not wrong that he had been given a a different remit than we had been and it was at that moment that I started to realize how those things that diverged and I realized in fact that wasn't really being fair to ambassador Sunland because he was carrying out what he thought he'd been instructed to carry out and we were doing something that we thought was just as pops even more important but it wasn't in the same channel Dr Hill. You might just want to drill down on this a little bit. The president the United States commander-in-chief was concerned about the two thousand sixteen elections embracement personal attorney working these issues. Because he was under investigation by Robert Mueller special counsel partly in the beginning with an investigation that started with the steele dossier that we've already established that the Democrats had paid for and had then fed into the FBI. Why so the end of the day the commander in chief concerned about two thousand sixteen election meddling by Ukraine doesn't it sounds like you had just earlier testified that you weren't aware of that but if that was the concern of the president try to get to the bottom of it and it's the concern of of ambassador silent who was trying to set up meetings on behalf of to make to ensure really that that meetings occurred and phone calls occurred to strengthen the relationship a little I understand the people at the NFC people state the department had issues with that but the end of the day? Isn't it the commander in chief that makes those decisions. My point is that we at the national the Security Council will not told the by the president directly or through Ambassador Bolton we were to be focused on these issues as a matter of US foreign policy towards Ukraine. So when you're talking about Mikron in two thousand sixteen I never personally heard the president say anything specific about twenty sixteen and Ukraine. I've I've sent him seeing plenty of things publicly but I was not given a directive in fact I was given a directive on July Tenth Byron Buster Bulletin very clearly to stay out of domestic politics politics. Just for sake of the time I think as of July nineteenth they hadn't even engaged with Rudy Giuliani. aww I don't believe that happened until a little bit later. So you believe by July nineteenth. They were already engaged. In those types of activities we already had a discussion. Uh with Kurt Volcker rule which was in the positions of his assistant. Chris Anderson the indicated that he had met with Rudy Giuliani. This point and I busted awesome blend bed comments about meeting Giuliani and as we know in the May twenty third meeting. There had been instructed to Giuliani. They give us every impression they were meeting with. Rudy Giuliani at this. Point and Rudy. Giuliani was also saying on the television and subsequently he was closely coordinating with the state. Department's it was is my belief that they were meeting them. Okay and there's some I mean there's some ambiguity in that direction work with Rudy. Giuliani ambassador. Volker said the President President dismissed Ukraine. And said Oh if you want to work on it just go talk to Rudy and ambassador. Sunland took that a little bit differently and I believe believe that imaginer Volcker was primarily. The interlocutory with Mr Giuliani. And that was happening. Didn't didn't start until the end of July. I learned that subsequently from Ambassador Volkers deep position so I just want to tell you in that particular timeframe. I was not aware of this. And in fact Gordon Gordon Sunland did refer to Rudy Giuliani and again now busted Bolton had warned. I'm BUSTA Volka not to meet with Rudy Giuliani and a meeting Mr Morrison told us both his deposition public hearing that you had related concerns about Colonel Vitamins judgment. I did not relate any concerns in general terms about Colonel Vitamins Judgment Slavs Somewhat surprised when I heard Mr Morrison make that assertion and when I read his deposition Russian there was a very specific point that was made and again. These are personnel issues. I'm sure that nobody here would like to have their private personnel issues. Put before a committee. But you've asked me about this so I had a couple of very short transition meetings With Mr Morrison and again Mr Morrison did not work out directorate. He was taking king over the position which he held for three months. I had worked on. Ask the director of the Senior Director for Europe and Eurasia. It was at the time for more than two two years. This point and I've been working for your with Curnow Inman. But Mr Finland in the cost of one of the meetings sometime in the June time firm I sat sat down with Mr Morrison and with a deputy referred to him and his deposition John Aris who was also working and we went through our organizational charts. We went through. who was staying being who was rotating out leaving in the summer? And we talked about everybody's strengths and weaknesses. And I always ask my stuff to do a put feedback as well to talk about what I wasn't doing my tither. I'd like to learn to and I said that I was concerned about the way. Things are trending in Ukraine policy. So I'm AH CONAL. Vin Ben is a highly distinguished decorated military officer. He came over to us from the chairman's office and the Joint Chiefs of Staff and we were were evaluating and looking at him in the context of what his future positions would be in the context of the US army. And I was concerned that if if for example might decide to leave the military. That popsy wasn't as well suited for something that would be much more political. I did not feel that. He had the political olitical antenna to deal with something. That was straying into domestic politics now. Everyone is suited for that. That does not mean anywhere that I was questioning his overall all judgment nor was I crossing anywhere his substantive expertise he is excellent on issues related to Ukraine Belarus and Moldova on Russian. Defenses us. He'd been in charge of the Russia campaign. Thinking through the at the chairman's office and in the Pentagon this was a very specific issue because by June we saw that things were diverging and nudity completely different sensitivities. Some people in my office have worked at the highest levels of advisory positions and Mr Morrison had come from Capitol Hill. He knew politics inside out. and Are we said that Colonel Inman did not and we were concerned about how he he would manage what was becoming highly charged and potentially parties on issue which had not been before and colonel related deaths during his deposition that he subsequently was sort of cut out of a lot of the decision making and involvements with with the embassy in Ukraine. was that something you recommended. Not with the embassy in Ukraine. I mean we did pull him back from the meeting. In May in the Oval Office and subsequent couldn't we were very concerned about these political aspects to this and we did not feel when July tenth. Colonel Vin was justified. Be Alarmed when he realized realized that there was this highly political aspect of the meeting that we were looking for eventually with presidency landscape and Mr Holmes I want to the end of August we understand that Bassett or Taylor was engaged in and obtaining some information for the president about European allies burden sharing in the region as the decision about aid was being debated after the whole was placed on the security assistance. Many people I think we're scrambling to try to understand. And why I believe Senator Johnson who had said. The president was concerned about burden-sharing. Perhaps others as well and so trying to interpret why this might the happened. We were looking into the facts of what the Europeans have provided we provided Very illuminating we learned the United States is provided combined civilian and military assistance to Ukraine since two thousand fourteen of about three billion dollars plus two one billion dollar three one billion dollar loan guarantees. That's not get paid back largely so just over three billion dollars. The Europeans at the level of the European Union plus the member states combined since two thousand fourteen my understanding and have provided a combined. Twelve billion dollars to Ukraine. And you were able to communicate that information back the end of August I believe so. Yeah we were this is done. In collaboration collaborations with other missions you to NATO and others yes and that was the information the White House looking for. We don't know if the concern turn was that we weren't that others were spending as much as we were sport Ukraine then that information showed a different story. Okay and the aid was subsequently lifted. Lifted the pause and the egg is shortly thereafter. It was a guest in early September mid September go back recognize myself for five minutes document. Ask You you may be aware of some of the attacks on Colonel Vitamin suggesting that he has a dual loyalty that he's not really loyal to America. He's loyal to Ukraine. I wanted to ask you as a fellow immigrant. What you think of those kind of accusations levelled against Colonel Vitamin or other Americans? I think it's very unfortunate. I mean this is a country of immigrants with the exception POPs of very few people still here. Everyone emigrated to the United States at some point in their family history. And this is what for me really does make America Great. I mean I'm sure that every single person here some people pops Kim reluctantly others came by choice as I did But this is for me. This is the essence of America. It's why I wanted to be here and why I wanted to stay here and I think it's unfair to castigate anyone. Everyone has some kind of appellate a to the an Anglo American pops are. I'm a British American naturalized citizen. I do not believe that my loyalty is to the United Kingdom. My loyalty is. He's here to the United States. This is my country in the country that I serve and I know for a fact that every single one of my colleagues and there were many naturalized citizens in my office and across the National Security Council. I'm still felt exactly the same way. I think it's deeply unfair. Thank you you mentioned. Something your testimony have this. That's exactly right that I think a bastard. Sawn lead one point told you his role was to make deals is that right. That's correct. I WANNA ask people lost as well to be To be clear I want to ask you about one of those deals. The one that Vaster Bolton described as they drug deal I had the suggestion or the indication rather when and Mr Goldman asking questions about the July tenth meeting and the fact they were two meetings one and then another in the ward room that there was more you had to say about that Do you want to walk us through that a little more detail. Well the reference that I'm busted Baltin Med was after I returned from the ward room and related to him. What I had I heard so there was the sequencing of meetings which I know that there's been some concern about the sequencing here and discrepancies between various depositions positions? So what happened immediately after the meeting that I'm busted Bolton caught. A little short was that he told me to the whole back in the room and he was escorting out the Ukrainian visitors along with Secretary Perry and ambassadors Vulcan sunland blend. I guess they wanted to take a quick photograph outside of his office. And I know that secretary. Perry and others have tweeted out photograph Beautiful Sunny Day and there's a a picture of all of them standing just outside of Ambassador Bolton's office. This is a very quick. He came back in. And at that point. I guess they were already moving down to the boardroom. Because is on the way out of combustible office. I'm busted a some London said let's regroup in the watery for quick cuddle on next steps APPs which to be honest with quite unusual. You don't usually huddle in a room in the White House to discuss next steps. With foreign delegations Gatien's because we took it to being next steps on setting up the meeting which already as I'd said Ambassador Bolton wasn't prepared to do and when I'm busting Bolton came back into the office that's when he gave me the very strong instruction to go downstairs find out what was being discussed and to come right back up and reports it to him and as I came into the wall dream about experiment and ambassadors Sunland. We're in an exchange and that's what I noticed that. Look quite alarmed armed now. I know that I'm buses. Some land was asked yesterday again. I watched All of his testimony and I watch it very carefully that there was some questions about yelling in shouting I certainly never said that and there was no yelling and shouting. That's some embellishment. That's crept in POPs in media depictions. All how people like to tell these stories and odd things to them. When I came in I'm buses sunland was an exchange with a Kennel Vin ben along the lines of well? We have an agreement A to have this meeting and I came in and I asked what's going on here. And he said this is again the Ukrainians combustive Golkar was there. But at this point I also want to stress Secretary Perry had left. He was not in the wardrobe when I came as I was coming in secretary. Perry and his colleagues believing. So Secretary Kerry has no recollection of this meeting because he was not in it. And so when I came in Gordon Sunland was basically saying look. We have a deal. You'll hear that there will be a meeting. I have a deal here. With with Chief-of-staff Mulvaney. There will be a meeting if Ukrainians open up or announce these FESTA Gatien's didn't and in two thousand sixteen in Arizona. And I cut it off immediately there because by this point having heard Mr Giuliani over and over again on television in an all of the issues that he was asserting by this point. It was clear that Brisbane was code for the Biden's because Giuliani was laying it out there. I could see why why Colonel Vin was alarmed and he said this is inappropriate where the National Security Council. We can't be involved in this and I've learned since from Mr Holmes. uh-huh is a rendition here today. That has already warned Ukrainians. Aw in fact President Zilenski no less to stay out of American politics domestic politics so I cut off this line and I said to ambassador Sunland look we. We need procedures here Bossa. The bulletin just made it clear we set up the meeting right now. We have to properly prepare this through the proper process under the sun is all very boring. We have national security procedures to do. This and I said we really shouldn't be litigating talking about this in front of our colleagues from Ukraine. I'm just completely inappropriate for us to be flashing this out in front of them and he agreed lead cranium colleagues to move into the corridor side the ward room and I explained where this is in the deposition which is also extraorde because they shouldn't have been standing around in Colorado original in the best of the West Wing at this particular juncture and. That's when I pushed back on to Sunland and said look. I know there's differences. This is about whether we should have this meeting which trying to figure out whether you should have it. After the Ukrainian a democratic parliamentary elections the elections which which by that point. I think it'd been set for July twenty first. It must have been because this is the July tenth at this point and Ambassador Bolton would like to wear it until after that to basically see whether President Zilenski gets the majority in the parliament which would enable him to form a cabinet and then we can then we can move forward ah buses or someone then said okay. Baranov fee realized he wasn't going to be able to push this further ambassador thing at this particular juncture and then. He said he had another meeting and they all left and I went back up unrelated this to Boston. Two Bolton which is when he gave me the very specific instruction that we've already been through you to go to talk to Mr Eisenberg John Eisenberg in the NFC counsel's office Jordan. Nowhere is there there. Is there a homes tells Taylor what the president of the United States told Sunland man. y'All get I'll give you a chance here in a second. The thirteen conversations thirteen conversations from their star witness. Your they're closing witness and he can't remember a call from a guy he works works with every single day. Why so immediately? When I went back to the embassy after this this lunch on the twenty six I I told my direct supervisor? The deputy chief of mission I would've told investor Taylor immediately except he was on the front lines that afternoon. I then went on Anez testified. My vacation on Saturday came back the following Monday and on Tuesday I was back in the embassador office where I referred to the call in that week plus that I was away. It was my assumption that the deputy chief of mission would have informed other people about the call as well. So my recollection election is when I did refer to the call on that meeting. That embassador Taylor nodded knowingly As though he had been briefed on it so I referred to the call and I mentioned and some of my takeaways from the call and at the time the main takeaway from the call was. The president doesn't care about Ukraine. So we're GONNA have a tough road ahead to convince him. It's important enough for him to schedule an Oval Office meeting for Presidents Alinsky and ultimately to release this whole unsecurity cysts that was the takeaway. And that's what I referred to repeatedly in the coming weeks whenever it became came relevant. And I'll remind you a one more point throughout this time. Same as I've testified we were trying to find a formula things we could do with Ukrainians that would convince the president that they were worth talking to him. Maybe Mr Holmes the takeaway was he thought it was no big deal because he already knew he didn't remember because we already had the transcript. He didn't remember that we had the trump Zelinski transcript had been out for two months. I believe that when I know you're repeatedly bringing this conversation station up as you said to everybody when it's anytime there's a talk about Ukraine you recall this conversation maybe it was the transcript. The call happened on July twenty fifth. That's four months ago. The transcripts been out for two months. Maybe ambassador thought this is. This is not the new here but Suzanne last week. You come forward with suppose of this new information. There is nothing different than what we had on the transcript. Maybe that's the reason their star witness there I witnessed didn't bring it up. But they had to have something. So you're they're closing witness because you overheard you overheard the president talking to Vassar solemn. Sir if I could answer I see four seconds gins left on the clock. I believe. Take as long as you thank you sir. I believe ambassador Taylor did already know when I briefed him when I returned from vacation the sixth he he was not news to him that the president was pressing for a Biden invest. That's not what guys why he didn't share with us. Mr Putin not interrupted witness any further homes. uh-huh yours is not okay. Thanks to the question. It's exactly my point. I brief the call in detail. I told the deputy chief of mission when we come back I referred the call and everyone is not of course. That's what's going on. Of course the president is pressing for a by an investigation before he'll do these things and Ukrainians what there is nodding agreement. So did I go through every single word in the call no because everyone by that point agreed. It was obvious the president was pressing for ambassador. Taylor as you've just outlined had all those other interactions waiting share it with Jordan. Please do not interrupt but Sir Sir but my vivid recollection of an event I was involved with was a touchtone experience that to me validated. And certainly Gordon please what we believed and and that's her Taylor was not in that call and so all of a sudden last week Mr Jordan Mr Jordan. Your boss allowed the witness. I answered the question of of Finish with this thank you he was involved in a number of other interactions. As you've outlined that brought him to the same conclusion Mr Hives the doctor. He'll have you seen you characterize the idea. That Ukraine interfered in the election is a fictional narrative. Have you seen any evidence at all that Ukraine and interfered in the twenty sixteen election. Well I brought with me to exhibits that I was pointed to by our colleagues during during the deposition that I gave on October fourteenth and actually I'm quite grateful that they pointed me in this start action I was presented Jerry. My deposition with the two articles or at least two pieces of information was an op-ed that the cranium ambassador Charlie wrote in in two thousand sixteen in the hill so this is during the presidential campaign when president trump was then the nominee for the Republican Lickin party. And this is Charlie who was then still the cranium combusted. To the United States being critical of president president trump who was then the nominee of the Republican Party for making comments about Ukraine Crimea and Russia. May I interrupt you there. Let me let me be very specific. About what those comments were the president. When when he was a candidate said quote the people of Crimea from what I've heard would rather be see with Russia than where they were so ambassador? Charlie is responding to that in that article. Correct that's correct. And he just used this as a peg because to be honest. The whole article is actually about Ukraine and this is classic standard for anyone who wants to write an op-ed. I've written plenty of the myself. You pick a peg by something that you are somebody else might have said any proceeds see to say what you want to say. I'm busted Charlie does is he talks about Ukraine's position vis vis Russia and Russia against Ukraine. Let me just read. Because it's worth people hearing what this veer attack on President candidate trump. Who has suggested that the Crimean would rather be with Russia's ambassador Chali Chali right right? Even if trump's comments are only speculative and do not really reflect a future foreign policy they call for appeasement of an aggressor and support the violation of a sovereign country's territorial integrity and another's breach of international law. Don't that's the attack on candidate trumps. Is that sound like Election interference to you. I would say that it's probably not the most advisable thing to do for an ambassador because you never know who's going to win and I think that the second piece case that was presented to me at great length and I want to thank Mr Costa for making me go back and read it again because when you ask me the questions about it I did remember the peace. Kenneth Vogel is a very well known as you've pointed out extremely good journalists. I'd remembered reading this back in the day in January of twenty seventeen but to being a longtime sometime between October and you gave me a copy and I went back and ready to again because I think it actually is extremely important. Gets to this issue here. Mr Vogel points out that the Ukrainian government again you know they wouldn't have done very well at the bookies. Piggy up the issue. I pointed out the beginning of for today they bet on the wrong horse. They based on Hillary Clinton winning the election and so they were trying to curry favor Eh. The Clinton campaign it's quite evident here and he relates to some extent individuals and some Ukrainian officials like Mr Ivanka the the interior minister and a number of other people that he names here and that being named at various points and talks about how they were trying to collect information As ranking member Nunez said Mr Manafort and on another people as well however I do want to point out that the crux of the article here by Mr Burglar's he said there was little evidence of top down effort by Ukraine and it makes a distinction between the Russian effort that was personally directed by Russian President Putin Tin and involve the country's military and foreign intelligence services now. I don't think that those two things are exactly the same. I also mentioned in my deposition a position of October fourteenth in fact many officials for many countries including Ukraine. That's on the wrong Hosts they believe that Secretary Clinton Former Senator Clinton former first lady was going to win and many said some pretty disparaging and hurtful things about President President trump and. I can't blame him for feeling aggrieved about them. And when we were setting of state visits remember I have a portfolio a fifty plus countries plus NATO in the European Union. We thought it prudent to collect as much as possible about comments that people might have said about the president agent during the campaign when he was either one of the candidates to be the nominee for the Republican Party. All when he was actually the candidate running running against Hillary Clinton and. I'm sorry to say that an awful lot in props. I shouldn't name them here because it will have consequences an awful lot of senior officials in many governments including our government. I said some pretty hurtful things about the president and I would also personally take offense at some of the things that were said if I were the president now the difference here however is that hasn't had any major impact on his feelings towards those countries. Not that I have seen but I also heard the the president and you said it in public so I'm not revealing any kind of executive privilege here. The Ukraine tried to take me down while I have seen at this. ill-advised is Ukrainian officials on busted. Charlie's been removed as being the ambassador from here made some pretty unpleasant statements about awesome ill-advised advised op-eds but then the whole host of ambassadors from allied countries who tweeted out to public comments about the president as well and it did not affect affect security assistance having meetings with them. If it would have been a lot of people he wouldn't have met with mclovin. Don't WanNa turn to you and the part of the conversation conversation your testimony where you said you heard president trump say is he going to do the investigation. An ambassador Sunlen said he's GonNa do it. He'll do anything you ask him to. All right yes sir. What did president trump say next? He said he said good. What about Sweden? He said what I need to look back where we are in the middle of the conversation. Here where the testimony exactly. So then they turn Sweden conversation. What did president trump say next? He said good. What about Sweden good? What about Sweden good? What about Sweden? Why isn't that in in your statement? Not a word for word every single more in the conversation but it's the most important part of the conversation. Well then they turn to Sweden they turn to the other topic. Respectfully Mr Holmes comes. This impeachment inquiry is based on the call the day before where president trump as part of a bribery scheme is part of an extortion Russian scheme. As part of a quid pro quo according to the Democrats demanded investigations in exchange for either military aid or White House meeting. And the next today you were witness to president. Trump receiving word that the bribery scheme was successful. The extortion scheme was successful and his response. His response was good. What about Sweden? Yes Sir does Ukraine portion. That conversation was extremely brief. What was the first thing the president said on the call? This was daily clear recollection conversation. Yes Sir it's Radka. Please allow Mister homelessness in Ukraine. He said what he said. Are you give Ukraine. What did you hear? President trump. Say about a sap rocky I did not hear the president. Trump signed the conversation about as rocky. You said how do we go from. The conversation was very loud and wreck. His voice was recognizable to as you say here. When the conversation shifted I can only hear ambassador Sunland side of the conversation? Yes or as I've testified the initial part of the call Ambassador Song. Lynn sort of the president came on the call he sort of winced and and held the phone away from his ear for the initial portion of the call and then at some point the call. He stopped doing that. And I don't know why I don't know if he turned the volume down. I don't know if the president spoke with more quietly and if you've got used to the volume I don't know what changed what what did change. It's important this was memorable. I don't know Sir it was Bass Online. Stop moving the phone away away from his ear. That's that's what it was. Yes okay how did the conversation end. I only heard about sermons side of the conversation and at the end of the conversation. He said he said getting the president advice on how to deal with this Iraqi situation and he said they should've. They should've released them on your word. And you can albuquerque actions. You tried and so to be clear. When president trump received word that president as Alinsky had agreed to the investigations? Sounds good. What about Sweden? Yes when exactly did Gordon Sunlen ask. President is Alinsky about the investigations. I'm sorry when did he ask about the investigations. When did Gordon silent ask Alinsky but the investigation? Yeah which in. Which meeting did he? Raise the investigations raise the day before on a call in the next day Gordon. Silence of the answer to that was I was going to do the investigation. So when did he ask about the investigation. Might my assumption is heated closed-door meeting with your mock missile you recognized. I'd like to turn our discussion to the campaign to remove a career diplomat ambassador. Ivanovich both of you in your various capacities had to work with her. And both of you witness What I would call a smear campaign? I wanted to know your our thoughts Dr Hill. What was your view of Ambassador Given Aventis experience and quality of her work in the Ukraine? And what do do you consider it to be a smear campaign. I have the highest regard for combustive which both in terms of Sir Integrity on the high standards of work that she was carrying out as. I'm buster in Ukraine and across her whole career. I do believe there was a smear campaign and I just want to say again for the record. I think it was a necessary if there was a decision to have a political ambassador. Put in place in Ukraine That would be perfectly acceptable. It's exactly the right of the president to be able to do that. I did just did not see why it was necessary to malign and busted Ivanovich vantage to such an extent Mr Holmes. Would you agree with that. And can you talk about the character integrity and performance of professor. Ah Embassador Yvonna Vich both in Ukraine. Yes ma'am she was extremely professional respected in Ukraine by Ukrainians I think also by visiting American senior officials including members of this committee and of Congress who came to visit. She extremely dedicated hardworking. Did you Cheetah's smear campaign as well. I did yes. And what was the effect that it had on the morale of other professionals that you worked with in the Ukraine. It was a very confusing time as I've said before president has the right to remove embassador for any or no reason at all. It was not clear why this was happening or why people weren't standing up for. I'd like to now turn Dr Hill to your boss. Your boss was ambbassador. Bolton right that's correct yes did your boss Dr Boat Ambassador Bolton tell you that Giuliani was quote a hand grenade he did. Yes what do you think he meant by his characterization of Giuliani as a hand. Grenade what he meant by. This was pretty clear to me in the context of all of the statements that Mr Giuliani was making publicly. Thought the investigations that he was promoting the storyline. He was promoting narrative of of he was promoting was going to backfire. I think it has backfired was that narrative also inclusive of falsehoods about Ambassador Image at this particular juncture combustible made that comment absolutely because that was in the context of my discussions with him about what was happening to on bus Ivanovich. I was particularly struck by your testimony. Dr Hill about receiving hateful calls being accused of being a source mold in the White House. Are you a never-trumper or have you been true to your profession remain nonpartisan. I honestly don't know what the definition of a never-trumper is as I think. Many of my colleagues feeling the same way. That is puzzling term to be applied to career all Menam parties this is on officials and I chose to come into the administration and I could easy of said no when I was approached. Didn't invite sign up to have hateful calls and and the like I guess unfortunately where we are today in America. That's coming with the territory that continuing honestly I mean we're constantly having to block twitter Posts of my name and address and on the Internet. We've been doing this over the last couple of days I think the deposition this could happen to any single person in this room compete members of the press paint members of Congress and beat the stuff and I think we have to find ways of combating this and again. This gets back suddenly to things that our adversities can also exploit things for the use of Carson. You Iraqi. Thank you chairman. Thank you both for your service. Dr Hill like to talk a little more in depth about chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney eighty role in the event under investigation. You testified Ma'am that Mr Mulvaney ambassador were both involved. They let our president trump sent to the Ukrainian president accident on May twenty nine congratulating. Him His inauguration you recall that Ma'am I did yes and towards towards the end of that letter. President trump closed with quote. I would like to invite you to meet me at the White House in Washington DC. As soon as we can find a mutually convenient time in quote quote Dr Hill was congratulatory letter drafted through the normal procedures at the NFC that the NFC uses to send letters to foreign heads of state. That's part of it was except the last paragraph you also testified. That Ambassador Soundman told you that he had dictated that line to the president. and Mr Mulvaney. He told Mister elving any to add that to the letter. Is that correct. That's correct you said that you were nervous about that. Why were you nervous? Because at this juncture it'd become quite apparent that the president wasn't very keen on having a meeting with Mister Kozinski for all the reasons that we've been trying to lay out today and We were once one puts in lesser. Like the you raise the expectation of an invitation coming shortly after hill. You also testified. That ambassador Solomon was frequently meeting with Mister Mulvaney painting. Mr Giuliani's campaign of lies ultimately led to ambassador. Uganda being recalled from her pulse in April twenty. Nineteen you've also testified testified man. That removal was pretty dispiriting. Any turning point for you. Can you explain to us. Why man well again as we've all made clear combusted Ivanovich and you saw yourselves in her? Deposition is A person of great integrity. She's one of our finest Foreign Service Officers Career Foreign Service offices and miss it being a decision to remove her to push her with a political appointee again. That would perfectly within the the president. Sometimes it's highly advisable in fact Sir to emphasize to a country. Just exactly how close the relationship is likely to be to have an appointee who is close to the president if it's an important relationship Boras dispersing was all of the accusations that were being fired. Art Ambassador Ivanovich leading her to be tweeted including by members of the president's Family we all firmly believe that Mr Giuliani and others including the people who were recently indicted the Ukrainian American gentlemen had for some reason decided that embassy of vegetables. There's some kind of personal problem for them. They then decided to engage in. Just the kinds of things we've been discussing about and frankly she was an easy target as a woman. And I'm very very sorry to hear about what's happened to congressmens demonic and I think that this just illustrates the point and the problem that we're dealing with here today. I was also struck. Trucked by your testimony that you were also the target of false accusations during your time in the trump administration. You testified Ma'am about receiving hateful caused and being accused used of being a mole in the White House. You testified about death. Threats and calls at your home is that right. That's that was in two thousand seventeen. I'm sorry you've had to go through throughout this Ma'am you don't strike me as a woman who was easily deterred. You're not easily deterred or you. Dr Hill now recognize Dr. You know I've seen hatred for political reasons specifically on June fourteenth twenty-seven at a ball field in Virginia and I've Seen Hatred Trud in war and I know that hatred blinds people. I've been in more and I've studied war and coups create the eight division and it's time for this phase of the publicly announced proclaimed Democrat coup to end and could I actually says something because we've had three a was going to ask you if you'd like to respond there've been in gem suspend Dr Drew Hill. You may respond to doctor. Up said was very powerful about the importance potent of overcoming hatred and certainly partisan division. And I it's unfortunate that congressmens turner not cliff For both left as well because I think all of us who came here under a legal obligation thought we had a moral obligation to do so we came as fact witnesses witnesses when I was referring to questions that I heard it was in the context of the deposition that I gave on October fourteenth because I was very worried about the turn in which some of the questions taking and I understand that the point is being raid about individuals as you've just said Dr Wen Strip and these articles out taking different positions in our elections. I don't believe that it should be any interference of any kind in our election. And I think it was unfair for people to already call the election and to make attacks also on candidate trump and on president trump. And I know that this is put a huge cloud over this presidency and also overall hole democratic system. That's actually why is a non-partisan person as an expert on Russia on an expert on Vladimir Putin and on the Russian security services. I wanted to come in to serve the country to try to see if I could help. I heard president trump's that he wanted to improve relations with Russia. I believe we have to. We can't be in this unending confrontation with Russia. We have to to find a way to stabilize relationship and to professionalize that relationship as well as to stop them from doing what they did in two thousand sixteen again in twenty twenty. This is really the crux of the issue that I and others trying to put across that. You've put across very eloquently. The other matters related to this inquiry. Sorry we're here just to provide what we know and what we've heard. I understand that for many members this may be hearsay. I've talked about things I heard with my own ears. I understand that ambassador. Sunland has such a lot of things. I've told you what he told me what others told me. A lot of other people have said that things to me again as well and also to Mr Holmes and we hate to relate to you what we heard what we saw and what we did and to be of some help to so all of you in really making a very momentous decision here we and the people who make that decision and I do again one to underscore. Aw what you said here adopter very eloquent and very moving about your service and trying to bring us all together again as Americans. We need to be together again. In Two thousand twenty. The American people can make a choice about the future and about vote in a presidential election without any fear via that. This is being interfered in by and from any quarter whatsoever. So I just wanted to thank you for making what I was. Also a very elegant and eloquent and heartfelt Defense Hill Spear verify this story. I understand that when you were eleven years old there was a schoolboy who who set your pigtails on fire and you were taking test you turned around with your hands snuffed out the fire and then proceeded to finish your test that a true story it is. A true star was a bit surprised to see that pop up to date. It's one of the stories. I occasionally tell because it had some very unfortunate consequences quences afterwards. My mother gave me a bowl heckert. So for the the skill photograph later in that week. Look like Richard the third or as I found going to be in a permanent. Yeah well I think Rudy Giuliani was playing fast and furious in Ukraine. It would appear. Is that correct. That's correct. And he had no official tasking within the administration. Is that correct. Not that I had been told of but he frequently met with Ukrainian officials to request that they open open an investigation so I was to understand. Yes you testified that Mr Giuliani's involvement was quote a massive complication in terms of our engagement with Ukraine. That's correct. Would you like to explain that. Well I think I already laid that out in earlier. Parts of response wants to some of the questions. We were actually conducting which fell below to the American people might seem to be rather barring stunned bilateral policy toward Ukraine pushing them on issues of reform in the energy sector and more broadly concerned obviously see about corruption. In Ukraine. We trying to help Ukraine regain its sovereignty after the attacks by Russia. So how Mr Giuliani involvement effect. Well we we. Basically it worked out over a cost of two years and in conjunction conjunction with the embassy in Kiev an interagency agency Agreed Action Plan. And these are things that in fact Calvin men and others were working on basically moving forward on the various issues of her on the list of items Katie. Eighty Rudy Giuliani. The people didn't care at all about this hour I'm bustling wasn't particularly interested in it either. It's quite boring. It wouldn't make for good copy in the press and it's the kind of thing everybody on a routine moves forward on Mr Holmes. You talked about the extraordinary power. Uh that Russia tries to assert against Ukraine so since presidents Alinsky never got his White House. Meeting doesn't that make Ukraine look weak and doesn't that benefit Russia absolutely so promoting Putin's false claim of Ukraine intervention into the US election also benefits. Russia doesn't it. It does so when president trump meets privately with Vladimir Putin at the g twenty summit. WHO does that benefit doesn't help Ukraine? It doesn't help Ukraine and by President trump calling in Ukraine corrupt and not North Korea for instance does that accrue Russia's benefit again. It doesn't help Ukraine quickly. Thank Mr Chairman. Thank you both for being here Dr Hill. When we last left July tenth I believe ambassador? Bolton Walton said to you you go and tell an Eisenberg that I am not part of whatever drug deals online and Mulvaney are cooking up on this and you go what you heard and what I've said Ed that's correct. Is that right. That's correct. Yes and John Is. He's the chief lawyer for the National Security Council correct. Yes and you went to see him. I did go to is in. What did you say to him? I gave him the Sam summary that I've given to you on the tenth of July. What took place of what took place correct and giving? There's some of the details that I shared with you as well the sequencing and what transpired as I was walking in now did you have one or two meetings with him about out that he didn't have a great deal of time on the tenth and I gave him the quick summary And we agreed that we would need to get on the Eleventh July eleven th the next next day and I also wanted to bring with me. My colleague Wolves Griffith Senior Director for energy. Who'd been sitting with me on the Sofa of for the first portion the meeting on I also suggested that he speak to colonel? Vin Ben Separately as well because Calvin men was in the wall dream when I arrived in obviously being engaged gauged in some discussion before I got there because as I got into the room they were clearly in the course of sorry the microphone. Katie and the cost of conversation and it's always it was was important for for John Eisenberg to hear from Colonel Kinman himself or his recollections of the meeting were. Did you raise the concerns. Earns the embassador Bolton had raised to you too. Mr Eisenberg is the first thing out related to him was exactly and precisely ambassador emboldening dust me too in the course course of those meetings. What was Mr Eisenberg's response to get all very seriously? He said for example that Colonel Vigne should feel free. He said this to me in future to go and bring any concerns to him about these. These meetings suddenly myself and any others. If there was any subsequent follow up in terms of these issues being raised again with any of the parties in the future. He didn't say anything in response about how he took that meeting how he would describe it or he raised any concerns about what you told him. That took place. No he did now. He listened very carefully to all the information that we imparted now back to that July tenth meeting the second meeting. That's in the ward room correct. That's correct now now. Who's in that meeting? Besides yourself to Ukrainians Mr Donald Luke Messiah remark missile talks aide. I'm busted Volka Busters Sunland and land and then a couple of people I think within the State Department I wanted for a while. If one of Secretary Perez Group had been there too but I honestly cannot remember NBA Ambassador Bowl Locker. was there during that time. He didn't actually speak a very much jerry not meeting and I heard his sir deposition and I registered position where he didn't really recall that's an encounter again he didn't really speak to someone was doing most the speaking you. I think you described it as you came in Ambassador Son was talking about how he had an agreement with chief-of-staff Mulvaney for meeting with Ukrainians. If they were going forward with the investigations educations while this was taking place. Afterwards how are the Ukrainians reacting to what was being said. Well at the time Mr your remark was quite impressive. I really had an age with him and his aide was sitting next to him in the original meeting with them Busta Bolton from time to time she he was on this side whispering to him so I wasn't sure myself because I had not met misty. I'm before about how good is English was so I wasn't sure POPs. Mr Holmes might be able to reflect electron that's as to whether he was having some points of tariffication from the understood what was happening so I wasn't ten tiny shoe if he was following all of the back and forth Mr Corno very well and speaks very good English. Look quite alarmed. I think he was more alarmed at the fact that there was this back and forth between ambassador someone and call all November and then with me about the meeting clearly they very much wanted to have this meeting and here are some. US officials arguing about the meeting in front of him and that was obviously very uncomfortable uncomfortable for him. Be Foul up to that Sir just added. Donald Look speaks perfect English. And your doc can get by in meetings but often does clarifications stefanik Dr Hill. You testified that you handed over your duties on the two Tim. Tim Morrison on July Fifteenth. And that you physically left the White House on July nineteenth correct is correct. Yes so that means that. By the time there was the July I twenty fifth call with President Trump and presidents alinsky. You're no longer on the NFC correct. Actually I was still technically on the payroll of the until the end of August August thirtieth of one thousand nine hundred nine but I was not physically in the building and I turned it over my duties to Mr Morrison and you were not on the call I I was not on. The caller is absolutely correct. And it's also correct that you did not participate in the preparation of talking points or the specific coordination of setting up the call not for that call but let me just say for. The record had been along. Anticipation that eventually there would be a call so there was a coal package that was prepared in advance. I just cannot sir. How much of that coal package that had pops being prepared? Since for example of the inauguration of presence Alinsky was then used as the basic material for dot cold so I did take parts in the preparation of that stunned coal package but I did not take part in any preparation for the specific call on July twenty fifth. And the first time you actually actually read the transcript of the call was when it was released to the public correct Dr Hill turning back to you there's been discussion about the process of scheduling the meeting between the president's Alinsky and president trump and you testified that there was hesitancy to schedule this meeting until after the Ukrainian. Parliamentary elections is that correct is correct. Yes and that's because there was speculation in all analytical circles both in Ukraine and outside the Ukraine that's Alinsky might not be able to get the majority Jordan that he needed to form a cabinet correct is correct and you also testified that another aspect of the NFC hesitancy to schedule. This meeting was based on broader concerns earns related to his alinsky ability to implement anti-corruption reforms. And this was in specific relation to Ukrainian oligarchs who basically weekly were the owner of the company that Mr Zilenski program had been part of is that correct is correct. This swallow Dr Hill yesterday. I think a lot of Americans Americans were scratching their heads ambassador. Sunlen testified that on September nine he calls the president of the United States in just says broadly. What do you want from Ukraine? And the President says there's no quid pro quo. There's no quid. Pro Quo like being pulled over for speeding and being asked. Do you know how fast you're going insane. I didn't rob the bank. I didn't rob the bank but your testimony. Today is that on July ten of of this year. You told one of the president's lawyers that you had concerns that a White House meeting was linked to investigations. Is that right. That's correct. Based on northbound awesome buses Sunland said in the water him and so as early as July ten. The president's lawyers had knowledge that there was at least concern by presidential employees about a linkage. Is that right. That's correct Dr Hill. Just like you where we are trying to account for all the president's men you had that same concern when you saw Mr Sahlins emails and you saw people who were outside the channels that you had been working on so I want to walk you through something you told us earlier. You said that you have evidence that has recently this year. President trump believes someone named cash was the Ukraine director. Is that right. It's not really evidence and I want to be very it clear about this. I was asked a question about this in my deposition. I did not raise it and to be honest I was surprised I was asked. The question for you heard that baton named cash is that right. I did but again it was in passing. I explained the circumstances in which the came up but I was asked a question in the cost of my deposition Asian about this and the only person at the time who worked at the National Security Council was Tash Patel. That was the only person I could think of and Cash Patel. Prior to working for the National Security Council twenty seven to two thousand eighteen worked for ranking member. Nunez is that right. I actually found out after the Fox and I wondered why was being asked about him so I went to look this up in Dr Hill. You cautioned us on. The dangers of members of this community of this committee. Perhaps peddling any Ukrainian conspiracy theories is that could benefit Russia. And I want to ask you if you have heard. The name left Parnis of Ukraine. Someone in this investigation who was influencing president. Is it in trump and Rudy Giuliani about some of the debunked conspiracy theories you referenced. Earlier I have heard his name. Yes are you aware that Mr Parnell was indicted on October ten for making foreign contributions nations to Republicans in US elections. I am aware that supports. Yes are you aware of yesterday's Daily Beast Story. Reporting the indicted Ukrainian life life partners has been working with the ranking member Devon Nunez on Mr Nunez's overseas investigations Mr Chairman. I ask unanimous consent to put into the record heard the daily beast story left harnessed helped Rep Devin Nunez's investigations from yesterday. First two paragraphs reading left harness and indicted associated Associated Rudy. Giuliani helped arrange meetings and calls in Europe for Rep Devon Nunez in two thousand eighteen harnesses. Lawyer Ed McMahon told the daily Beast Nunez Aid Derek. Harvey participated participated in the meetings. The lawyer said which were arranged to help Nunez's investigative work McMahon didn't specify what those investigations Intel that objection Mr Chairman. You have been falsely accused throughout these proceedings by the ranking member as being a quote unquote fact witness now if the story is correct wchs the ranking member may have actually been projecting and in fact he have meant he may be the fact witness if he's working with indicted individuals around our investigation. But I want to go to. This is really all about I. It's your credibility Mr Holmes and can you tell confirmed that in two thousand fourteen. You received the William Rifkin constructive dissent award from the Obama Administration State Department. Yes Sir and that was as for dissent that you brought up against an administration policies. That right that's right. Congratulations and thank you for speaking up in the way that you did but what we're really hear about is what you're working on in Ukraine. I want you to take a look at the picture. Who Do you see in the foreground of that photo presents? Alinsky that's a photograph and may twenty nineteen where newly elected presidents Alinsky visited the Luhansk region in eastern Ukraine. It was his first visit to the frontlines of Dumbass as president. Can you just tell tax paying Americans why it's so important that our hard order and tax paying dollars help presence Alinsky and the men standing beside him fight against Russia and this hot war absolutely Sir Presidents Alinsky was elected on an overwhelming majority to defend Ukraine interests. This is at a time. When Ukrainians are defending their sovereignty territorial integrity on Ukrainian soil from russian-backed soldiers who who are attacking them and they said fourteen thousand? Ukrainian lives lost his work so far as I mentioned a few this week already and this is a hot war. This is not a frozen conflict. People are shooting each other and dying being injured every single week. Despite the ongoing war they're still trying to pursue peace piece presents Alinsky. Even right now is trying to pursue a summit meeting with President Putin in order to try to bring this to a conclusion so they can move on with all the the difficult things they need to do in terms of building the economy reforming the judiciary and whatnot. And I want to add one other thing if I may. Mr Turner had suggested earlier that that somehow embarrassed presence alinsky. I have the deepest respect for president so Linski. This is a guy. This is a guy. Jewish background from in post-soviet industrial suburb in southern Ukraine. Who made himself one of the most popular entertainers in the country? And somehow got elected president and he's not going to miss that opportunity. This is a Ukrainian patriot. This is a tough guy and frankly he was a lot of pressure for a very long time. Uh and he didn't give that interview. I haven't deepest respect for him. Ukrainian people a also have the deepest respect for him chosen him to help deliver the full measure of promise of their revolution of dignity. And I think he merits all of our respect and Mr Hurt Castro Mr Holmes. Thank you chairman. You indicated that secretary. Perry went when he was the crane had private meetings with Ukrainians before he had had those private meetings in a meeting with others including yourself I believe. He had presented a list of American advisors for the Ukraine Energy Sector. Do you know who was on that list sir. I didn't see the names on the list myself. Do you know if Alex Kranenburg Oregon Michael Blazer were on that list. I have since heard that Michael Blazers on the list was before secretary. Perry did this. We also heard in testimony before that ambassador Donlan also had a private meeting with somebody. How unusual was it before these guys I showed up for folks diplomats so to speak or US government officials to have private meetings where they insist that nobody else in the room very rare almost never okay and I want to ask you also about the precedent that we set both of you? I know you're here. It's fact witnesses but you're also public public servants for this country. The precedent that this Congress would set putting aside Donald Trump for a second if the Congress allows a president didn't the United States now or later to ask a foreign government head of state to investigate a political rival. What precedent does that set for American diplomacy for the safety of Americans overseas and for the future of our country? It's a very bad. What precedent very bad precedent and going forward? If that were the case I would raise objections Congressman Conway. The loser and in the two thousand sixteen election has for three years continue to argue that because she won the popular vote as she and her friends won the popular vote that somehow the election action was inappropriate and that we shouldn't trust it that the electoral college victory which was resounding shouldn't be trusted. Does that help Putin play into the narrative that he would like for us to their elect their elections are somehow rigged and then he shouldn't be trusted yes it does so the RT Putin's would you agree with me. RT is Putin's propaganda machine. Here in the United States. I would agree with you. Yes show is appropriate for the RT to be used to affect public policy nation. This is an example. There'd been a long series of advertisements are programs on rt going against fracking King. Bad and try to affect public policy. United States is that appropriate use or is. That should be shouldn't be paying attention to that a a tense that American should be paying attention the RT and other outlets they used to propagate this kind of information. I wasn't quite sure what you meant about. Just checking is a controversial issue within our nation. If we did away with fracking the United States would not be a position today to dominate the production within the world and would play in the strengthening Putin's hands with respect to correct. Actually I'd like to point out that in two thousand eleven in November two thousand eleven actually sat next Vladimir Putin at a conference in which she made precisely that point. It was the first time that he had actually done so to a group of American journalists and experts who brought to something called the discussion club so we started in two thousand eleven making it very clear that he saw American fracking as a great threat to Russian interest. We were all struck by how much he stressed. This issue and it's since two thousand eleven and since particular juncture that Putin has made a big deal of this show the shit that Americans pay attention. RT misguided by whatever propaganda he's going it's not in the best interest homes in your role you're privileged to off lot of stuff official things and and things that are best kept between you and the official folks that you deal with. Is there an expectation among the principles that you represent that you will exercise some discretion and what you share with others about what goes on in your in your testimony. Deposition you made the first off. We had a hard time pinning down the number of people that you've actually had this conversation with about the conversation that you overheard now. Our ambassador had no expectation of privacy. Blustering around. Didn't what he's done done. But we couldn't figure out how many actually shared that information with and and I would argue that information is unflattering to the president unflattering to the embassador. Tom and your discretion is to you know at at odds here your testimony. Your position said you shared that with folks who you thought I would find it. Find it interesting. Argue that everyone in the back row would find it interesting. But I don't know that that's necessarily criterion so on goforth basis. Can You articulate that. Is it In the future when you're privileged to certain circumstances that that that would be embarrassing to the principle that if it's official that you share that Bashar that's fine but the folks outside outside. The embassy embassy are folksy within the. Don't have a need to know that you wouldn't regale them. With your recounting of those instances sir. I think it was Gordon Silent. who showed indiscretion by having that conversation over your well? That's the thing is shared the information to share. You're with the right people who needed to know it. I did not share any information. That people didn't need to know. But you did use the word interesting. You're it certainly was interesting and I also hate to think that that what I brought before this this process I shouldn't have done that. I've come here because he was subpoenaed in me to share what I know and I've done that. Mr Hecker rat apply to you as well. Mr Holmes much estimate about the use of both regular and irregular foreign service or diplomatic channels. Hamels my reading of history is that American presidents have on occasion used irregular channels. Would you generally agree. Yes Sir and my reading of history is that generally speaking however those irregular channels have either been closely coordinated with the regular ones or at least in furtherance of American Foreign Policy and our national security interest. Would you agree. And do you believe Mr Giuliani's efforts closely coordinated with the regular channels such as ambassador to the Ukraine No they weren't and were were they. In furtherance of the American Foreign Policies. You understood it. No Sir Mr Holmes. If left unchecked do you think that Russia Russia would either by means of force or other moly malign means subjugate Ukraine attempt to render it a client state if not occupy it. Absolutely certain it's been said that Without Ukraine and Russia's just a country with it. It's an empire this Maloney I mean. Let me ask something. I'm fascinated by this meeting. Two meetings really on July tenth. You have the meeting Mr Bolton's office Silences thing about Investigations Bolton ends. The meeting photo is a follow on meeting in the Ward Room. And you get there a little little late and then men is talk into Sunland. And they're already going at it about desire to assert at the meetings going to happen if there's these investigations that sum and substance what's going on. Let's say right. Yes and what I want to understand is this is. This isn't a policy disagreement right now. That's not that's correct source of your concern is not a policy discriminate. It's not purely clearly a procedural disagreement. Either right about how how excuse me. I'm sorry it's not correct. It's not it's neither policy procedure. That's bothering you or for that matter under the National Security Adviser Mr Bolt right all right. I mean it's not why he sends you down there to see how the meetings going correct and in fact he instructs you to go to the lawyer ever been instructed to go report something to the lawyer before. That was the first time I've self instructed a couple of times but that was the first time I have be instructed to go. And why did he send you to report this to the lawyer. Well he clearly wanted to have himself the record as not being passed of what was basically an agreement to have a meeting in return for investigations and he wanted to make sure that I am curnow. INMAN Walson up part of this as well because remember. There was a cholera to this about not getting involved in domestic politics. Yes I understand and you of course. Did you concur with this. Concern that Mr Bolton head I did because June July tenth is really the first time that it crystallized for me that was basically basically a different channel going on here and I think he wonders policy channel and a domestic policy channel way. Not In that to the channel right. I think you described it as a political Teheran and you were doing national security policies how you distinguish those two channels. Is that fair right. And so is it fair to say that you felt it was improper. What was occurring by Mr Solomon Award Room it was appropriate was inappropriate and we said thus in the time in real time and and and here's my point if if it was improper upper and and and you went so far as to report this to the lawyers? What was the nature of your disagreement with Mr Sunland who has come here and said he had no idea? That burris meant Biden's until much much later than July tenth and of course we know that he the and Ambassador Volker had a blizzard of interactions. With Mr Giuliani they were amending. Statements proposed statements for Ukrainian president. This went on all summer and yet ah how is it that you had this. Disagreement in front of the Ukrainians sent him out in the hallway. At some point. Did he ask you know. I'm just talking about up an investigation of corruption. Generally what are you getting so worried about. He didn't put it in that way. And I think from listening listening to him and his depositions and in what I've read what he deposed and he made it very clear that he was surprised that we had some. I'm kind of objection. You may remember in his deposition and when he was here he actually didn't remember the meeting the same way but I thought it was obvious to you. Excuse me too me correct. I thought it was the first moment buttons. Yes it was and you treated that. It's a pretty easy thing to understand. Fact Mr Morrison figured it out with single Google search but is it credible to you that Mr Shawn was completely in the dark about this all summer. I mean you had an argument about it. Didn't he say that he was sir. Oblivious to the Detroit couldn't hear your is not credible to me that he was oblivious. He did not say Biden's however he just said Barack Obama he's at twenty sixteen and I took it to me in the elections actions as well as I want to thank you both for your parents. Who then he'll show this demings? We all know by now. Now that in July of this year president trump's in an order to the office of Management and budget that congressionally approved military aid aid to Ukraine. Be Put on whole both of you have expressed that Ukraine is the front the first line of defense against Russian the aggression and expansion into Europe that Russia's priority is to undermine that United States is that right Dr After Hill. That's correct. Would you agree with that Mr Holmes. Yes dodger he'll in your professional opinion is in the national security. The interest of the United States to support Ukraine with the much talked about military aid. Yes Mr Holmes yes. We've already said it several times today and you've already testified that Ukraine is in war right now with Russia. Isn't it true Mr Holmes that even though the security assistance was eventually delivered to Ukraine the fact that it was delayed to a country that is actively end war signal to Russia that perhaps the bond between Ukraine crane and the United States was weakening absolutely absolutely and even the appearance that the. US Ukraine bond is shaky could embolden Russia to act in an even more aggressive way. That's correct you also testified that it was and I quote the unanimous view of the Ukraine policy community that the age should be the release because supporting Ukraine is in our national security interests. Dr Hill why do you believe that. The entire hire Ukraine policy community were unanimously in agreement. Well we've had this experience before I just twenty to indulge me for a moment in two thousand and eight. Russia also attacked the country of Georgia. I was the national intelligence officer at that particular juncture and we'd warned in multiple documents to the highest levels of government that we believe that there was a real risk of a conflict between a Georgia and Russia and in fact we also believed that point that Russia might attack Ukraine. This was in two thousand eight when both Georgia and Ukraine sought membership action plan in NATO on Russia threatened them openly that if they proceeded with their request for NATO membership membership that there would be consequences in the wake of the attack on Georgia president. Putin made it clear to the president of Georgia Mikhail Saakashvili at the time and this was related to me at the highest levels of the judge in government that Putin had said directly to Saakashvili your Western allies Western partners promised a great deal. They didn't deliver. I threatened I delivered. We admitted did all kinds of promises to Georgia and Ukraine in that timeframe and we didn't come through so Putin is always looking out to see if there is any the hint that we will not follow through on promises that we have made because he will always follow through on its threat as indeed ultimately did he threatened Ukraine in two thousand eight and it wasn't until twenty fourteen when Ukraine try to conclude an association agreement with the European Union that he struck but he had been threatening thing this for the whole period since two thousand and eight. Thank you so much Dr Hill and Mr Holmes what kind of mess is potentially send to other allies of the United States when military holes for assistance or imposed with absolutely league no explanation. What kind of message does send to our allies in terms of the good faith and good relationship with the? US calls into question the extent to which they can count honest Dr Hill you stated in your deposition. You've been accused of being a mole for George Soros in the White House correct. That's correct you said in your deposition specifically conspiracy was launched against you by convicted Felon Roger Stone on the show Info wars led by Alex Jones. Right I don't think it was a convicted fallon at the time that he launched this so I didn't use those exact words but it was indeed Roger Stone and Alex Jones on Info in two thousand seventeen and in fact just more recently silently before Mr Stone was endured his trial they were outage again. Reprising the same info wars video adding embellishments Russian. And they said I'll quote what they said about you. We here at Info Wars. This is Roger. Stone's speaking I identified Fiona Yona Hill the globalist leftist George Soros insider who had infiltrated mcmasters staff. He said that on May thirty first. Two thousand seventeen. I presume you're not at globalist. Leftist Soros insider correct. I think my coal mining from it would be very surprised to hear all of these things about me. I left this perhaps not so how much but the left in Europe is a bit different from the left here. Let's put it that way. I agree. Interestingly you stated in your deposition that a similar conspiracy theory had actually been launched against Maria Vich. That's and you said specifically when I saw this happening being to embassador Ivanovich again. I was furious. Because this is again. Justice whipping up of what is frankly an antisemitic conspiracy. I see theory about George Soros to basically target nonpartisan career officials. Isn't that what you said. Yes and I'm sure you've been even watching with concern what's happened to other nonpartisan career officials. We had Alex. Lieutenant Colonel Alex Adleman and American immigrant the grant questioned for his criticism of the president in a very unfair way basically questioning his loyalty to the country. I believe that he's also of Ukrainian Jewish descent. Would you say that these different theories these conspiracy theories that have been targeting. You Spun in part by folks like Mr Stone as well as fueled by Rudy Giuliani and others. You basically have a tinge of anti-semitism to them at least well so do uninvolved. George Soros do I just like to point out that in in the early one thousand nine hundred Zara secret police produce something called the protocols that the Elders of Zion which actually you can still obtain on the Internet and you can buy. It's actually sometimes uh-huh in bookshops in Russia and elsewhere this is the longest running antisemitic. trope that we have in history and the trope against Mr to Soros George Soros was also created for political purposes. And this is the new protocols of the Elders of Zion actually intended to write something about this before I was actually invited to come into the administration from absolute outrage. I'm sorry you've been kind of wrapped up in these crackpot conspiracy theories. Let me turn into Rudy Giuliani. You became increasingly concerned about Rudy Giuliani's INCR- increasing role in Ukraine between January and March parts of twenty. Nine thousand nine correct. That's correct and I know you served on the Bush and the Obama Administration's I presume that George Bush's personal lawyer and present Alabama's personal lawyers were never directing or heavily influencing Ukraine policy. Even show I know who they were so them. Komo and the concern for having someone like Rudy Giuliani. Having such a strong influence on American foreign policy is that you know basically that policy may be operating not in the best interest of America but perhaps in the best interest of Rudy Giuliani or his clients or business associates right. I think that's correct and that's as I said in my deposition on October fourteenth funky. That's what I thought it was at the very beginning. I heard Mr Giuliani making these. Some of those associates included indicted folks Eager Fruman Parnasse. Isn't that right that's correct. We have an interesting in character in Chicago. Who's now been indicted? His name is Mr for Tash and Mr Fertilizer has been indicted for federal bribery charges and other associated. Giuliani any. Right gene-o mister. That's correct off him from my work. That's correct and the question that we're all asking is. Whether American foreign policy in Ukraine rain is potentially being run in their interests and not our own. It certainly appears that it's being used that there's a subversion of American foreign policy to to push these people's personal interest. Thank you so much. The law fair podcast is produced in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. If you're not too tired from listening to all this testimony you should take a second to share the l'affaire podcast on social media and give us a five star rating and review. Wherever you found us you can also purchase l'affaire fair swag at our online store? WWW dot the l'affaire store dot com. The podcast is produced by Gen PACI. Hal I was your audio engineer and editor on this noble podcast and our music if we had it which we don't on noble additions is performed by Sofi again as always thanks for listening.

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The Kasich case for impeachment

Skullduggery

33:09 min | 10 months ago

The Kasich case for impeachment

"John Casick was the governor of Ohio in a rival to Donald Trump in the battle for the two thousand sixteen gop nomination last week he became the most prominent Republican yet to openly call for trump's impeachment saying that acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney admission of quid pro quo between Shen we'll find out as we talked to Casick on this episode of skulduggery who rivals that was it for him we now have the closed door testimony of Bill Taylor the US charged fares in Kiev. Who says that's exactly what was going on that he was told by Ambassador Sunland that he that the Ukrainian President Lansky that he wanted him in a public box making a public statement about ordering a such investigation the new president of Ukraine in a public box sounds very trumpian exactly the way our chief executive thanks on such an announcement including security assistance and not only did he make explicit that the military assistance was tied to public announcement of investigations in fact Ambassador Ambassador Silent said according to tailor everything was dependent Oakwell that was his red line? If the president was tying military aid to Ukraine for Ukraine's willingness to investigate his political you know mantra their political slogan through this process is going to be no quid pro quo in the same way that they said no collusion during the you know lies we will honor the American people with the Truth and nothing else al realized that the Ukrainian officials that he made a mistake when he told Ukrainian officials that White House meeting with Dolinsky was dependent on I'm Michael ISIKOFF chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News and I'm Dan Glide editor in chief of Yahoo News so the other thing is you know we have for months railed on this podcast about the importance of public hearings public testimony Muller Russia investigation. Well that's just not going to hold water anymore it looks like no it doesn't and of course this whole idea of putting Zu Lin so Casey really made some waves last week when he called for trump's impeachment after the mulvaney presser and it seems but how far is willing to go to see trump removed from office and if that doesn't happen is he willing to actually challenge the president himself for next year's Republican nominee but just because of who he is very impressive career Foreign Service officer a West Point graduate served in Vietnam in fact witnesses that didn't really happen in the Russia investigation I think it it is increasingly looking like it's going to happen in this my best intentions still tell me that's true but the facts and the evidence tell me it is now I did not have sexual relations with that woman there will be is that as we speak the evidence has only gotten stronger. CASICK was focused on the idea of a quid crane impeachment inquiry and I think Bill Taylor is going to be a very powerful witness notch just because the story that he has to tell multiple ambassadorships was called back into service after the last ambassador who's also testified in the impeachment inquiry assignations of his political rivals he says that trump according to Psalm Linden salmon says Taylor says the told him this trump insisted Ivanovich was summarily recall to Washington and essentially fired they brought Taylor in for an extra tour of duty didn't it could not have been more explicit the walls do seem to be closing in their story that there was no quid pro quo by the way someone pointed out that the Republican he's public hearings in the meantime we just have a public skulduggery is for people to listen to and by the way before we get to Governor Casick we now have with us John Casick former Republican governor of Ohio and the author of the new book it's up I want to remind our listeners for any thoughts comments questions criticisms whatever just send it our way at because people have gotta know whether or not their president's are pro bowl I'm not a crook I told the American people I did not trade arms but hostile my heart you to take over the embassy in Ukraine and this is what he ends up experiencing it's a extraordinary story I think he's going to be a really powerful witness when we finally do get to US Governor Welcome to skulduggery expert let me be on well so much to talk about look you made a lot of waves the other day call Duggary pod and that note lets get the governor Casick if Malvinas comments were the final Straw for you to support an impeachment inquiry given what's being reported now about what ambassador Taylor acknowledged that there had been a quid pro quo on the Ukraine deal we now have more testimony today from the embassador Taylor who said basically the same thing that he was told that Ukraine wouldn't get its aid on less presidents Alinsky and when you said after Malvinas Press Conference that that was the final Straw for you after Mulvaney basically I believe the Democrats ought to be calling for a vote in the full house on an impeachment inquiry and that of course gives the house greater strain ever of Donald Trump's impeachment what is it specifically about the president's conduct that indicates to you that he is not fit to serve as president he made a public statement saying he was going to go after Barack Obama the holding company that the Biden served on and investigate the origins of the two thousand sixteen election no this was hard because I remember how hard it was to vote for impeachment of Clinton I mean it was gut wrenching and voting for impeachments a big deal being a very difficult decision it was difficult when you had to vote for Bill Clinton's impeachment sounds like it was difficult to make this decision that you've made being in ought to impeach well that's a very clear red line that you believe has been crossed why do you think that the vast majority of your colleagues in the Republican Party don't see it that way or at least aren't willing to say publicly and do publicly what you did because I just I don't think you can do those kinds of things and I was looking for the quid pro quo and the chief of staff basically then just say these things he offered I thought that the president should be impeached if you had your old house seat back you would vote for impeachment and I wish they would take a vote in the full house and the reason why they're not doing it is for political reasons and that's just terrible it's not what we should be doing governor yeah you talked about this this tribalism which I think is you know it's toxic for our country coming a couple of questions here last week you said after Mulvaney within themselves and I happen to think that when you're a member of Congress or any any legislative body your focus should be on how do we lift these people that in the courts to give documents do their investigation and then you know I wanna see what they come with articles of impeachment but you know look I but I said was that is saying does that move you even further down the road Michael let's go where we are now let's see my my issue now is well I mean look the country's tribal I mean this is part of the reason why I wrote this book this book is not about politics it's about the fact that you know people need to live life a little bit African deal was very very difficult for me to do and you know I've done what I can do with this make whether I do anymore say anymore I don't I just don't you have a bigger purpose which is live life a little bigger than yourself and I think that what will happen maybe over time and you can see an increasing number of them beginning to you know I got out at the right time and you know at the same time being a change agent which is what I was I kept looking out saying who are those guys you know into the hello you've gotta listen to what other people have to say and and it's it's really up to us to change the dialogue and it's up to us to to got loud about the fact that they're troubled but we're very very tribal I mean people are one of the things I argue in the book is you gotTa Get out of your your side bet here but you did at the beginning of this conversation you raise the question of whether there was more that you would do or could do and I guess the question a window into the way that they think and behave over there look I'm not a scandal Guy you guys have told me I know issue cough has for many years way up on the rocks and I knew they were coming to get me at some point if you know what I mean if you understand popular culture and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance did but you in is if this is such an important issue I mean you know you've come to the conclusion that the president may not be fit to serve in office then I serve how do we how do we bring about some degree of unity it doesn't mean at times you don't have an argument or or you know you you can rub up against people but by and large guardrails and and you can't you can't let this happen creates a precedent for what happens in the future that is what what motivated me me presidents can make terrible decisions on foreign policy they can do all kinds of things that are wrong but I don't think that's the grounds on which to got into a cold sweat reimagining my time you know in the House I had a great time when I was there it was a different time is where you know people all this has to get to the Senate and it's going to be in their laps but let's just kinda see where things go but I wish the Democrats would not play politics in terms of the case I mean you don't think it's important to stop the president from withholding foreign aid particularly to a country that has the Russians inside I I'm a policy guy scandal guy but you know and that's why I don't like to have to get into this but you have to do what you have to do so that's what that's what affects really I don't I don't have a look I think the best way to be an example for somebody is not what you say but what you do and no I'm not like when should you are you talking to your Republican Friends Republicans in the Senate and trying to not really sway as you're so focused on politics you probably don't get out of your silo we're GonNa get to your book in in just a couple of minutes and get out get out of our silos for a little Terry a.d in exchange for a political investigation by the leader of another country into something that benefits the president may there have to be some rules on Dellums on military reform Democrat very liberal it was just a different time and then I could see I could see the partisanship rising and on the president but you know most of the things that I have been really interested in this but before that it was hell I don't like all the provisions obamacare but I didn't it along I was chairman of the Budget Committee when we bat we put together the plan to balance the budget people think that's a fantasy but it actually happened it was then when I was working with it I think is I hope it's been helpful to the public debate governor the filing deadline for the New Hampshire primary is November. I know you've talked about this quid pro quo can you articulate yes sir I don't I don't think president the United States ought to hold fifteenth just a few weeks away of you feel as strongly as you do why don't you run for president because of it and threatening they're very independence and you think it's proper for an American president to withhold military aid until they do what he wants on the political front ace I'm still a Republican I'm a conservative but instead of wearing red or you know thinking about wearing blue when people think about wearing blue wearing red white and blue is the way we ought to be win right now I mean I'm not gonNa run for something that can't win I mean still Republicans are eighty plus percent and you know it's interesting Michael you know heavy yeah yeah no I don't know that that's an elevation I was governor why would I ever WanNa go back into the house I mean it was hard for me to go back there I broke operating and you know so I just like calling around and line it doesn't work that way you know the Senate's club they'll they'll figure it out if they asked me Tori aid to Ukraine and that country's willingness to investigate matters that would serve the president's political interests was the final Straw I'll tell you what I'm thinking but I think I've been pretty clear and I think one of the things that happened does the result of what I've had to say about impeachment is that I think I've been very clear if you were in the Senate would you vote for removal based on the evidence has been presented flowed right I just elevated you winter and so I don't think it's makes a whole lot of sense for me to have to take a greyhound bus from Columbus Ohio to To New Hampshire it's just not there I own state I didn't vote for the guy everybody knows that and I think some people thought well he was he was he was mad he didn't win had nothing to do with it it do with exactly what I wrote about in my last book I don't believe that leaders should divide I think they should unite and I have not engaged in personal attacks at this point and I don't know what the future's going to bring but right now you say at this point I mean the evidence does seem to be building you know every day increasingly better I know what it takes I know how hard it is the raise money people don't want people by and large do not want to create a winter they just WanNa be with them left New Hampshire and beat everybody was no one thought I would do and not getting a bump or the media attention that would've given me some power in the south and then come North I did when I run into people and I happened to be in Washington everybody's kind and Nice but you know I don't think they know the way I think and look I mean I go to the Convention as I said we even had new testimony just today from Ambassador Taylor that supports the idea of exactly what you said there is a red line run in this last election and and and getting through all the hurdles and they're really being disappoint being disappointed after that and I can't help you if you think that's okay you know I got accepted I mean I don't like it but not going to war with you but laying it out and being clear about it like the idea that Republicans were GonNa Repeal without any replacement which would have hurt twenty million Americans and I I I'm sort of post-partisan now you know in many ways you know on some shuttle or you know on some I just don't engage in that to be honest with you maybe I should maybe I should have more relationships there it's my life is my friends it's my family it's my supporters and you know I don't doubted their political opening there is just no opening right now there just isn't you may think there is but then you should run on Saturdays at three PM Eastern time with replays on Sundays at one A._M. and three P._m.. Talk to you soon what are you doing to bring about change in big ways in the small ways because the the the heartbeat of America is not to who the heck is in Washington I'm sorry guys it just don't sit around and wring your hands and fight at the Thanksgiving table over whether you like trump or whether you don't go well you're talking about you're talking about what's your sense of where ohioans are right now about the president can he if he survives this will he carry Ohio again isn't the heartbeat of our country is in the streets and the neighborhoods it's in our homes that's the heartbeat of America and I'll tell you people the sort of small almost radical acts of of compassion and kind of good works and decency and and that's laudable that's resonating with people now before people thought it was boring and now I'm finding people like this message that they have power they can change the this is from hundreds of thousands of job losses to you know four hundred thousand job gains and people had healthcare expanded Medicaid you know not here he's our creator all right your state went Pretty strongly for trump last time I think by eight points or so wonderful I guess I guess the question is give us a really hard nosed honest assessment of what we're up against here the all these structural forces is that that have lead to polarization of political and and you know media culture that's about you know arguing all the time I mean this is the stuff that would that would move people in our state spending a lot of time talking about impeachment or whatever I don't think works well let me let me and so we you know we focus all this stuff about Donald Trump okay I'm not telling you it is important it's critically important but in the meantime what are you doing what are you doing to issue yeah let me pick up on that governor I want I want to talk about your book for a second here I don't believe Issakov wasn't going to bring it up but you know what Democrats are going to win they're going to have to talk about the case the kitchen table issues health care and the enormous cost of them and how we're GONNA get family healthcare and you talk about polarization you talk about can't get along you're talking about fact that you know these guys don't have and women don't have any guts and all that kind of stuff well what are you doing he dealt with the issue of race I mean there wasn't any reason for people to want to change the sauce and so that now I think Ohio still doing better and I think that if get affordable we gotta talk about you know the how the kids are going to go to school they got a job we got a I got all this technology coming our people are going to survive in their jobs and keep a good voice out there but at the end of the day that's what I do in the future is up to the up to the big guy and the big I don't you know the big guys less less division no let me let me tell you this this is a handbook for people getting their power back let me also tell you for guys at studied washing control changes and then if you think about if you think about global environmentalism it started with a fifteen year old girl who stood outside the are African American women didn't get it until long after that because of the work of people like Fanny Fannie Lou Hamer or if you think about ending the Vietnam War the circus in Washington and and a lot of the stuff that frankly talking about right now and more willing to improve the communities where they live more empathy the top all right so you book is is in part about why people should be you know less preoccupied with the attend I assume that you know that all changed major change social and political comes from the bottom up it doesn't come from the top down do the thing that I can to be positive as I can realizing I'm a hypocrite I'm I'll be number one in the country but you know I'll do what I have to do to stay out there lake past civil rights lost decades and the reason it happens was not because anybody in Washington wanted to pass it the what happened the landing I'm is look we actually you know we actually had a big turnaround in Ohio you know we went from budget deficits to surpluses was essential and the fairness injustice matter or if you think about women's suffrage look how long it took for women to get the right to vote and the men didn't want to give it to them and uh-huh what are you doing when you're talking to people you know any I'll give you another one you know this whole when we have a crisis we have an emergency we political culture that does you know encourage instill this polarization that in many ways rewards it and given in some did at the end but when Martin Luther King went to C. J. K. J. I mean king left he was bitterly disappointed it came about because people decided that the chain entity who are hungry you know it brings you together don't you see that the man that demand for civility dozen companies parliament Sweden instead protect yours I mean guys you're missing it and when people say you got all this polarization people say what what should we do about it I said well what are you doing that happened because of the I'll give you another one the changes in gun laws and Ford came up because of the Parkland students that's why it happened they didn't WanNa do any and then it's up to the people to get outta their goddamn silo and just keep absorbing everything that you agree with start thinking about somebody else and by the way about this guy if it's true spraying bear spray on a bunch of people who were protesting trump I mean it's gotTa stop and we saw it in other people's shoes well what what I yeah I mean if I were to think about that I don't I I encourage people to get out of their silos I mean when we celebrate some of the great journalists you know throughout history they're not people they're people who who just had character on that well because it's up to me I mean I'm on CNN okay it's my job to be fair so I'm doing an interview today and I'm telling you about trump being impeached at the same time I'm telling you the Democrats need to have a vote and they're playing politics just be fair and you know I remember at the end of the day it's on you what your life was we have to stop can you share with us and our listeners one or two examples of seeing people getting out of their silos and walking I I don't have any vivid examples where a person SORTA changed their mind I can give you give you one that affects me personally I was having a debate about free speech isn't this kind of struggled you really see that Pat I don't think so at all looked civil rights how many years they should call how many years each on college campuses and I was saying well you know I thought it was okay for a for university presidents he used judgment and keep some people off the campus if take a a a shotgun out of the hands of a student who was there to shoot himself now that kids should never have had that gun right and so the red flags h comes from just showing up showing up so anyway I think reasonable changing those laws is doable and I think that it's inevitable that this is going to happen about the idea that we ought to walk in somebody else's shoes and how about the idea that everybody's made in the image of our creator and they deserve respect I see this story there are people that that really figured out how to just tell the truth how does not shade things to we're all biased we know that but it's up to all of us these guys on boats they get in the water cool people off

president Donald Trump Ukraine Bill Taylor United States Russia John Casick Mick Mulvaney Ohio Ambassador Sunland Kiev White House Chief of Staff Yahoo chief executive gop Shen Lansky Oakwell
Dems call U.S. diplomats testimony "damning" and "a sea change" in the impeachment inquiry; Diplomat testifies Trump linked Ukraine aid to Biden probe as allies push Trump to accept House will likely impeach him; McConnell hits Trump for calling impeachme

Erin Burnett OutFront

46:50 min | 10 months ago

Dems call U.S. diplomats testimony "damning" and "a sea change" in the impeachment inquiry; Diplomat testifies Trump linked Ukraine aid to Biden probe as allies push Trump to accept House will likely impeach him; McConnell hits Trump for calling impeachme

"Finding the right pros for home projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions like how do I find a pro who help will they do a good job will I get a fair price that's where homeadvisor can help from leaky faucets to major remodels homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price read review campaign from far left lawmakers and radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the constitution there was no quid pro quo I mean was top diplomat in Ukraine Bill Taylor behind closed doors for ten hours and if you read just his fifteen page prepared opening statement statement about ordering such investigations six days later Taylor rights and he's recounting a conversation he had with trump's official in charge of yours you know that trump offered a quid pro quo period full stop end of story according to Taylor this opening statement itself is thorough it is detailed in the two thousand sixteen election and debunked conspiracy theory linked to that one of the most alarming admissions refers to the text message sent by Taylor but President trump did insist the president's Alinsky go to a microphone and say he is opening investigations of Biden and twenty sixteen election interference on defense tonight congressman Mark Meadows telling reporters nothing new here I think and the new statement from the White House reads quote President Trump has done nothing wrong this is a coordinated smear think is there anyone else let's go out front and good evening I'm Erin Burnett out front tonight the breaking news explosive testimony from Bill Taylor lays out in excruciating detail is the definition of a quid pro quo which is what this impeachment investigation is all about now the White House and Republicans Act for Taylor to read these fifteen pages took over an hour Taylor telling lawmakers that president trump used the powers of his office to push Ukraine to investigate Biden and White House meeting are conditioned on Investigations Solomon Response Calming Well Taylor revealing exactly what was said on that phone call and this comes from and the president's Alinsky should want to do this himself okay it does not matter what you call something what matters is what it is and to the ambassador to the EU Gordon Sunland back in September let me just remind you of that text message it said are we now saying that security assistance and first of all the facts are in here and they're very clear okay it's a quid pro quo it's trump kept saying it wasn't one and then he laid out exactly that that's what it was at and we should note when they when they take two thousand sixteen. US Election Taylor then goes on to say that Ambassador Sunland said quote everything which he put in quotes was dependent on announcement including security assists he said that president trump wanted presence Alinsky to put presents alinsky quote in a public box by making public breaking news blistering testimony from trump's top diplomat in Ukraine tying aid to the country to getting dirt on Joe Biden plus trump's allies reality check warning the president and it's likely he will be impeached in the house so what's the president's strategy now anxious Democrats looking at the twenty twenty field apparently asking residents Alinsky to state publicly that Ukraine will investigate Burri sma that of course is the company Hunter Biden was on the board of and alleged Ukrainian interference in the the opening statement. I WanNa read some of these lines that are really important he says during that phone call ambassadors Sunland told me the president trump had told him that he wants up Tim Morrison and Taylor testifies again writing here quote according to Mr Morrison President Trump told ambassador sunland that he was not asking for a quid pro quo lamb at career bureaucrats Taylor is a seasoned diplomat an army veteran a west point graduate serving both Republican and Democratic Presidents since one thousand nine hundred five appointed to an in his first one from President George W Bush and all of that adds up to what makes his testimony so damning tonight montage was out front live on Democrats and Republicans are asking him a lot about the essence of what he laid out in this fifteen page testimony more details about exactly what he said Little Hill Mono obviously it took an hour to read these fifteen pages but then he submitted to nine hours of questions what more are you learning about what he said had what I'm told from various sources that he had a lot of details he had been able to corroborate some of his information by the notes that he took and was able to concerned that his testimony conflicts with Gordon Solomon the ambassador to the European Union who testified last week that he did have a conversation with President trump a brief conversation with president trump and there was no quid pro quo and he was not certain why the military aid was held up but what Bill Taylor is saying very clearly today in his it provides some information that gave some members more conference on what he was saying reflected exactly the truth of what happened now what I'm also hearing is some members on both sides of the Aisle Biden's as well as to the origin the twenty sixteen campaign investigations that have of course could help the president he said Gordon Sunland made that clear in that president trump told sunlen that now what I'm hearing from members Republicans and Democrats are saying the song is should come back clarify his testimony and they expect you more questions for him to be sent his way but there are other things that are Democrats and vote particularly alarmed by what Taylor said today in his testimony he said obviously as a as a I'll say it again congresswoman in our to read the opening statement but then nine hours to submit to questions from from your team from Republic morning that Gordon Sauna told him that the reason why this was held up was they were waiting for the public declaration by the Ukrainian government of investigations into essentially the it was referring to a conversation he had with Gordon Sunland when he said when a business talking about president trump he says when a businessman is about to sign a check to someone who owes them something not a confirmed I thought it was just extremely troubling to hear him confirm essentially what he had said before someone who is at the deposition of the top diplomat in Ukraine today the bill Taylor Deposition Democratic Congresswoman Karen Bass who serves on both the House foreign affairs and judiciary committees acid Taylor is a patriot he is courageous he was told not to come and testify he came anyway I think it was just a very very for which is is crazy the idea that you would hold back foreign assistance for a political favor I have to tell you when this is all said and done is teams from the lawyers in the room what else did you learn from Bill Taylor that is important today well I think that it is all in the statement which I believe he's embassy I have to sit there and essentially encourage them and tell them that the American people really support them we appreciate what they're doing critically important and you know what I believe is happening here is that for the last two and a half years people in the State Department have had to live with an administration I think his testimony was critical I think it just shows once again you can't just say there's no quid pro quo and do exactly that administration and obviously is forced to ambassador under George W Bush how important was Taylor deposition to your impeachment case against the President Congressman Bob well I think it was You know he has served under every administration Republican and Democratic since nineteen eighty five Reagan appointee about time and in some served under the Reagan he said the businessman asset person to pay before signing the check and what's Onlin said is president trump is a businessman who thank you very much and I want to go out I mean at some point in time you can't just say that something is not happening when all of the evidence is right there in front of you the whole impeachment process and he wrote in part quote all Republicans must remember what they're witnessing here a lynching some Republicans have defended the president Lindsey Graham the denigrated and disrespected them that didn't take their advice I'm on foreign affairs I travel the world I go to embassies around the world and every time I go she one other thing that's come out of all this today and you know also as your capacity is the chairwoman of the Congressional Black Caucus Bath President trump today tweeted his anger you in a way that's true we did have the president's chief of staff have a press conference last week and give the perfect example of a quid pro title they were like sporting events come and watch an African American burned to death coming watch a hanging these were advertised as social events and this is a in two thousand sixteen interference and the presence Alinsky should want to do this himself that is the definition of a quid pro quo and yet it appears congressman Mark Meadows decided to see just the first sentence critical day in terms of our investigation well and as you point out especially as the White House is is is slamming career bureaucrats as they call them and then it's okay you can't just come crime and say that you didn't and then expect go it's interesting you say that because one of the senses said according to Mr Morrison President Trump told working Americans were lynch should be ashamed of himself shame on him he knows better than that when lynching was happening in the United States and frankly it wasn't that Komo news today was so explosive even one of his racial bombs will not divert the attention away from a quid pro quo whoa and you told all of us we just have to get over it you cannot normalize criminal behavior no one is against no one is above the law so I want horrific part of our history and how dare Lindsey Graham coming from a state in which thousands of people were lynch to minimize it that way for the president take our constitutional responsibility to provide oversight as a CO equal branch of government to take that and compare that to now you know I have a little bit of the empathy for my colleague because what could he say the evidence was clear the testimony was clear and so for him to say there was nothing hello lynching is been seen as somebody taking the law in their own hands and how to get somebody for no good reason during football season constantly on the go I can't sacrifice style for comfort and thanks macworld anymore I'm sure you guys can't stand shopping but it's easy and takes no time to place an order on their website the underwear shirts and sweats are all perfect for workouts or when you're on the move this is the most comfortable clothing I own a congresswoman bass thank you very much for your time tonight thank you and next trump allies now telling the president to accept the fact that he will almost surely be impeached in the House hey crime he has been consistent whenever he faces a daylight today he throws a racial bomb to try to divert our attention but you know the test a discount remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN tonight allies of president trump urging him to ambassador John Lewis he was not asking for a quid pro quo period writing the next sentence reads but president trump insisted presidents Alinsky go he's opening investigations of Biden on the go the state of Texas put a man to death a couple of years ago for lynching that happened in the last ten years but those were public events people were S. African Americans lynched other people have been lynch throughout history is Lindsay Graham a senator from a southern state where thousands of Holbrooke a whole lot more and a whole new warning about president trump we have more on that this hour why some Democrats are asking is there anyone else percent off your first order visit Mac Weldon Dot com and enter Promo Code Warner W. A. R. N. E. R. Warner Stop I said quote this is a lynching in a sense this is unamerican later he was asked if he understands why anyone would be offended by those comments and I wanNA play for you what Senator Graham said okay begin your hard to go back to anything else and if you think I'm lying give it a try you can keep the first pair of underwear and they'll still refund you no questions asked for twenty unquote president trump has done nothing wrong referring essentially to the testimony on Capitol Hill they coordinated smear campaign from far left lawmakers and radical unelected also how did trump react we have new tales on that next plus the president behind the anonymous New York Times op Ed you know the one that went after the president has now coming out with weekend's in stores make it easy and get premium topnotch fabric with macworld DOT COM and don't forget that Promo Code Warner for a sweet twenty percent can ron and beat trump and twenty twenty hey guys this is connor rogers I live in active lifestyle with tons of traveled have dramatic and damaging testimony literally just finishing as we were coming back here from Commercial Kaitlan Collins is out front at the White House so Caitlin how is the president taking this reality check of people around him saying are here's what he just said in the same room as you all day congresswoman bass here's what he said let's get in there for ten hours I assure you there was no quid pro quo a clearly articulated I think in the way that we've we've most clearly understood it at this point the exchange that was on the table in other words appreciate all of your time Kerry you've had a chance to read the opening statement which is I took Mr Taylor an hour to read and then he stop trying to pretend policy may not get there you should assume it's going to happen and the vote will be to impeach you yeah Erin they're saying he needs to be more aggressive but maybe not I think it's an incredibly big deal for a couple reasons first with respect to the issues that are under consideration for impeachment bill Taylor continuing and going to testify as you point out for so many hours and that is something they're wrestling with because they don't know exactly what it is that these officials are saying an indication Whitehouse's framing this and of course those allies pushing the president to be more aggressive and AIDS doing the same comes as the president has really wrestled with how seriously to take this because sleep people were really dismisses dismissive it focusing on how there hadn't been any kind of a formal vote yet from Democrats but essentially when they felt like they weren't going to be able to get something like that even more aggressive with all right Caitlin thank you very much and I want to go now to our political analyst David Gregory former counsel to the US Assistant Attorney General for National Security Carry Cordeiro nine hours of questions after it but you've seen the fifteen pages how big of a deal was this testimony fancy MC MC Albany who was the US ambassador to Bulgaria and his new Bill Taylor for twenty five years and former FBI assistant director on republican state senator in Nevada Greg Brower out political information regarding investigations into the Biden's investigations into the two thousand sixteen campaign in exchange for US government's the except that he will most likely be impeached by the House and to focus his time on attacking the impeachment process more aggressively this coming is the top US diplomat to Ukraine just wrapped up his sern on a bipartisan basis. Is that Ambassador Taylor's testimony shows that the president was pushing a change in policy Kirti assistance and then the second piece that I think was devastating from a national security perspective and a foreign policy perspective which should be of can the president and his advisors who were doing this secondhand backchannel communications with the government of Ukraine they were seeking national you've talked about many of the things that he's done he has for many years been senior statesman responsible for US foreign assistance bill frame impeachment as an unfair process to the president that seems to be more of the strategy of the White House is trying to take tonight with the Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham putting out the statement said I don't know if you just heard part of it but this is a coordinated smear campaign from far left lawmakers and radical unelected bureaucrats waging war on the constitution I suppose that one of the stories of NFC led interagency meetings starting at the staff level and quickly reaching the level of cabinet secretaries at every meeting the unanimous conclusion eighty with respect to Ukraine that's not an issue for impeachment but it does show how dramatically and how quickly he is changing the US's role have how the White House is gearing up for this the president's legal team is here at the White House today going over what their impeachment strategy is going to be something that Republicans are hoping the White House could put out and according to the White House's Bill Taylor he was first imported appointed by George W Bush to an ambassadorship he served under Reagan and every president since he's a West Point graduate he's a new responding in the way that they expected him to referring to his lynching today something that Republicans were very frustrated they had to spend the day defending when they finally thought they were able to tons of phone calls and meetings is in quotes it does not surprise me at all because Bill Taylor is a very measured very methodical very meticulous lashing out at him in the same way that they lashed out at Masha Ivanovich but frankly bill comported himself with the dignity and the courage of his conviction without a single instance of him ever been questioned about a decision that you talk or any responsibility that he held it doesn't surprise me to hear the White House all in the world and its foreign policy towards a country that previously has been considered an ally and someone that we were providing substantial security see that as Carey noted was subverting our strategic interests in Ukraine he also made clear that there is much more to be uncovered here that there are now focusing on what they're going to do because they are watching these people continue to defy their vow to not cooperate with this inquiry people like What you saw today these that I expected to see of him he made her roic efforts to fight against this informal and unusual second track of diplomas in which as you point out on a bipartisan supported basis over a very long period of time ambassador mcelderry Bill Taylor and I and I say this you know the statement that just came out from the White House the Defense Department came back with the determination that the assistance was effective and should be resumed? I mean Greg this just puts an incredible exclamation point on this trump define his own defense depar- care what the White House and its supporters may try to say it is absolutely clear from this testimony that there was a quid pro quo and Heo Greg I though Bill Taylor said that in his opening statement that in a call with the NBA the office of Management and budget a staffer explicitly said served in the hundred and first airborne and Vietnam his opening statement was fifteen pages it took an hour for him to read does it surprise you ambassador that he kept such detailed notes that so much of his recollection president trump personally directed mick mulvaney to halt the eight vis very explicit the president of the United States directed this and then Taylor says quote there followed Joe Biden Aaron I think this testimony by ambassador Taylor makes all of that very very clear and it shows just how out illogical this approach William of dollars of assistance to Afghanistan to a rock to the Middle East bill was responsible for all of that over the course of two decades bureaucrats that last caller is interesting there Erin because some of the people who've been on Capitol Hill are trump appointees who the president has picked to fill this position but that's thoughtful Republicans on the hill on the hill start wondering how far can we go and supporting this President David Gregory the lays out right the president uh-huh Foreign Service Democrats and Republicans a country under physical attack from Russia because he wanted an investigation into clued the role that secretary of State Mike Pompeo has played and I want to get to that in a moment because there isn't a a a very explicit part in this testimony the prepared remarks about Secretary of State Pump News Check Project Cost Guide and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download the free homeadvisor APP to start your next project that although this was not a quid pro quo if presidents Alinsky did not clear things up in public we could be at a stalemate so again they seem to be hanging everything David on mostly our our foreign partners including Ukrainians Just stunned by what was going on nobody could explain it nobody could believe it and it is clear I I don't was it. The security assistance should be resumed the whole lifted at one point the Defense Department was asked to perform an analysis of the effectiveness of the assistance within a day. Ah that the details more details will only come out to present a fuller picture and this look there are certainly Republicans on the led by the president facilitated by others was it had everyone from career officials the State Department to career officials at Dod to Say This is about Ambassador Sunland saying he had talked to President Zelinski the Zimbabwe so he tells Taylor he talked to presence Alinsky and told is going on you know we began with the whistle blower and that was what was just readily a- visible From a top the water underneath the fuller scope of this iceberg is how uncomfortable career diplomats were even the president's political appointees with tying the aid to digging up dirt on Political Liani and his conspiracies about Ukraine and they had an audience of one the president who is willing to dictate official policy because of those those Oh it's not a quid pro quo but then let's just show you the quid pro quo right because the language that he uses in his tests yes I think what's so striking about Bill Taylor's testimony and of course the White House can't touch them with their garbage spin that they put out is it's a fuller picture of what L. who are going to go down swinging and we're going to support the president to the very bitter end but I have to believe that today's events are causing a lot of trump you know insisted presence Alinsky to the microphone himself and say that he is going to open investigation of Biden and two thousand sixteen election interference he continues Komo News the president would say well you know he should want to clear this up he should want to take this particular stand you know it's in his interest I think the quid pro quo is opponent and to having what Bill Taylor describes as an irregular channel of foreign policy the official and the non official in the non officials being run by Rudy is thank tonight plus as the impeachment investigation and testify intensifies what are voters saying humans are all of you stay with me because I want to talk about something significant that happened today and that is Mitch McConnell breaking with trump and I wanNA share exactly what the top Senate Republicans ah jeopardize his own credibility to support this president and I think increasingly he's not going to be alone there are as referenced earlier confronted with this specific of parent misstatement like the one we heard referenced earlier he's just he's just not going to lie about it there are many House Republicans who is vulnerable it's a fascinating conversation I hope you'll check it out you can subscribe the boss vials today capitalism as you know it is dead he thinks billionaires like himself could pay much higher taxes and warns about the cost of growing inequality not directly is contradicting the president you told him that his phone call with the pre it's Kim saying you wouldn't have used those words to talk about the impeachment inquiry putting out a resolution on the Senate floor that is tougher than the one in the House that already had done I think a lot of nervous Republicans on Capitol Hill Right now who are very very concerned with what the president has been doing and saying particularly this Ukrainian deal and hi everyone poppy harlow here on this week's episode of boss files salesforce founder and CEO Mark Benny off he's out with a new book trailblazer and tells me plus his argument for breaking up big tax his personal journey the impact his father and his grandfather had on him and the value of now McConnell also putting forward strongly-worded resolution today on top of all that to block trump's bid to pull US troops out of Syria and even tougher resolution than was not always the case and that's why today the question is how significant is it. I mean this is an interview that I did with Senator McConnell back in two thousand sixteen trump was the presumed nominee and he was the president said it was snowing in Washington today they would all agree with them and talk about how it was snowing in Washington Mitch McConnell is not going to go that far he's simply not going to you know breaking news as the most damning testimony against trump trickles out tonight senator McCain Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is not rushing to the president side in fact the one which passed the House of Representatives everyone's back with the I mean Greg you add this up refusing to say that he told the president that the call was perfect you'd have to add I part of the job what does that say to you about Senator McConnell what he's trying to say it tells me that the majority leader will only go so far in support of this president and when connel about it who had said it was perfect it didn't stop there McConnell also calling trump out for the impeachment inquiry comparing it to lynching they're worried and they're nervous and they're not going to support him forever carry since becoming President Senator McConnell has defended trump a lot right the president was convicted and do you believe that the president is Ukraine's obviously conversations on that subject Christie Fan milk has had to have turned by Faye milk the left's intestines can make a fortune off of other people's Misfortune TV's funniest game show is on TV. Given the history of our country I would not compare this to a lynching that was unfortunate choice of words uh-huh I don't recall any conversations with the president about that Bongo of course the president explicitly said he had talked to you know claiming american-born judge couldn't decide a case involving trump because of his Mexican heritage here's what McConnell said about trump he's now one of the two people that are going to be president of the United States of America and he needs to begin to act like a presidential candidate I have listed all of last week yes exactly in public as E- ever lose your lipstick and watch the misery index a new game show Tuesdays at ten thirty on tbs get different person but Kerry today he cracked the door could we start to see more of that Mitch McConnell where he distances himself from the president every occasion upon which I differ differed with Donald Trump at typically attacking people on the basis of their ethnicity totally inappropriate. I mean that's is chaotic rash decision to withdraw from Syria a grave strategic mistake that's how Mitch McConnell described the president's decision I hope so and I think he is putting some distance between himself and the president and I think it mostly concerns national security he called the president's withdrawal his his has been using his foreign policy abilities in order to received political information from a foreign government I really think that Mitch McConnell and other national security minded Republicans who are in Congress needs to take a really serious look at whether they are going to continue to abide the president's chaotic and ill conceived and really irrational national security and foreign policy to withdraw from Syria and then now coupled with this new information that the president Sort of the clarity of the information that has been coming out that the president decision making because according to ambassador Taylor's testimony today the concern is that he's making decisions that are not in America's interest and that's something that I think Mitchell thinks one or two Republicans in the House will vote for impeachment do you think it could be more well I don't know that it will be more I mean I I don't know that the politics it's the chaotic decision making has emboldened Republicans who are national security minded Republicans to say this is completely out of bounds and have changed but I think Mitch McConnell is an interesting window into those politics I mean Kari exactly right I think the not just the poor decision on Syria on the substance completely wrong and it is given them more room to be critical of impeachment it's not that hard to distance yourself from the president talking about his situation and compare anonymous senior trump administration official who wrote that you know now famous New York Times op ED claiming to be part of the resistance inside the trump administration has now written a whole book bring it to lynching that's an easy thing to be critical of the president of but I think there are more Republicans in the Senate who are more troubled across the board by what the president's doing the calls as Colin Powell said recently and really across the country people are seeing our democratic institutions being undermined so I understand why people deserves legal protections but you know this anonymity that this author is claiming is just feeding further into the fear right and also can working in the administration are so troubled by it but I would suggest that rather than submitting an anonymous book that they should follow suit as patriots like bill yeah the more the Republicans feel that they do not have to Kowtow to this president and that could accelerate and much more on that in a moment ambassador I want to ask you though today we've learned the CNN polls showing growing support for impeachment but does this move the needle for trump supporters plus Michelle Obama Michael Bloomberg some of the names that Democrat connel cares about David a quick bullet point on this though Justin Amash you know former Republican in favor of impeachment became an independent told me last night at best that's a reportedly throwing out as possible twenty twenty contenders one of the maybe the other come on people give it up why is there anxiety within the party tonight and it's coming out next month called warning and it says there's going to be all kinds of more information in there more behind the scenes things about donald trump dance for it and they're going to be donating significantly significantly from the royalties a two organizations it says two things to me it says the people are obvious but is the impeachment inquiry moving the needle for trump supporters at all male Marquez is out front Aaron Schatz fourth generation farmer on his presidency what what what does it say to you the significance of this that this person didn't stop with the op-ed they've now gone and written a whole book and by the way they say they didn't take an advance they can use to be critical and I think that you also have to look at the president standing in the polls the more popular impeachment becomes an removal becomes it doesn't rate does impeachment play into your decision about him or you're feeling about him at all not yet but it hasn't broken through for you know it hasn't yet I guess to me Taylor and Marie Ivanovich have stood up owned their own opinions and and identified themselves not as the whistle blower who county who supported Obama twice then voted for Donald Trump I don't see anybody in Democratic field that I am too comfortable with the can't get enough of the NBA sign up for NBA League pass to gain access to every game being played across the association every night with all new ways to watch through the the acres of corn and soybeans milk and beef cows two dogs and a goat named Gus he's one of many voters in this northeastern more than any other county in the country a forty one point swing what's it like to be a Democrat in Howard County Iowa he says the really is something the county's gop chair says trade policy will move votes in Howard impeachment right now it all becomes a Hun Lee so troubled by what is happening what has happened throughout

president Ambassador Taylor Donald Trump trump Ambassador Sunland Alinsky Joe Biden Ukraine President White House United States Erin Burnett Senator McConnell Mitch McConnell Hunter Biden White House Sunland EU House of Representatives
BONUS: Government Unfiltered - Text messages surrounding concerns of withholding military assistance from Ukraine

Mueller Report Audio

20:34 min | 10 months ago

BONUS: Government Unfiltered - Text messages surrounding concerns of withholding military assistance from Ukraine

"Uh-huh as the House of Representatives impeachment inquiry continues to look at actions by President Trump with regard to Ukraine on October three twenty nineteen the house permanent Welcome friends and insiders this government unfiltered I'm Dan it has become immediately apparent why secretary pompeo tried to block these officials from providing information the committees have now obtained text messages department officials have begun cooperating with the impeachment inquiry by producing documents and scheduling interviews and depositions based on the first production of materials as well as the text messages the letters dated October three twenty nineteen members of the intelligence oversight and reform money from Ambassador Kurt Volker a former State Department special representative for Ukraine negotiations following the testimony from Ambassador Volker and the committee asking another foreign power China to launch its own sham investigation against the Biden's to further his own political aims this is not normal or acceptable of misinformation and misdirection in an attempt to normalize the act of soliciting foreign powers to interfere in our elections we have all now seen the summary Critical US military assistance to counter Russian aggression the president claims he did nothing wrong even more astonishing he is now openly and publicly ending abuses in broad daylight does not absolve president trump of his wrongdoings or his grave offenses against the Constitution over the past week new us from Ambassador Kurt Volcker the former special representative for Ukraine negotiations communicating with other officials including William B Bill Taylor the from the Ukrainian President's inauguration may have been related to efforts to put additional pressure on Ukraine to deliver on the president's demands this week current and former state attended actions of President Donald Trump and his administration with respect to the House of Representatives impeachment inquiry the president and his aides are engaging in a campaign the call in which president trump repeatedly urged the Ukrainian president to launch an investigation into former vice president Joe Biden immediately after the Ukrainian president mentioned Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has now admitted that he was on the call when president trump explicitly pressed the Ukrainian president to investigate the Biden's but failed to report this births have revealed that other trump administration officials also may have been involved in the illicit effort to get Ukrainian help for the president's campaign for example Pompeii Oh disassembled likewise we are investigating reports that Vice President Mike Pence may have been made aware of the contents of the call and his absence help from a foreign power that may intervene in the US presidential election this obligation is not diminished when the instigator of that foreign intervention is the president of the United States and Foreign Affairs Committees Washington DC Two zero five one five dear colleagues we are writing to convey our grave concerns with the impressed it's it is all the more crucial to the security of our elections instead when asked by the media about his knowledge or participation in the call secretary interview with him the committee chairs provided members with excerpts of text messages relevant to the impeachment inquiry this is a reading of the letter released by the committees is to the FBI or other law enforcement authorities you will recall FBI Director Christopher Ray urged individuals to report efforts to seek or receive uh it is unethical unpatriotic and wrong American presidents should never press foreign powers to target their domestic political rivals engaging in these rj the fair at the US Embassy in Ukraine Gordon Sunland the US ambassador to the European Union Andrea. Your Mac aid to your cranium presidents Alinsky the president's agent Rudy Giuliani and others these text messages reflect serious concerns raised by a State Department official about the detrimental effects of old in critical military assistance from Ukraine and the importance of setting up a meeting between president trump and the Ukrainian president without further delay y'all so directly concerns that this critical military assistance and the meeting between the two presidents were being withheld in order to place additional pressure on Ukraine to deliver on the president's demand our Ukraine to launch politically motivated investigations earlier today selected portions of these texts were leaked to the press out of context in order full-body of the materials which we hope to make public after a review for personally identifiable information our investigation will continue in the coming days to help correct the public record we are now providing an attachment with more complete excerpts from the exchanges the additional excerpts we are providing are still only a subset of the committee on Intelligence Elijah Cummings Chairman House Committee on oversight and reform attachment connecting Rudy Giuliani. We hope every member of the house will join us in condemning in the strongest terms the president's now open defiance of our core values as American citizens to guard against foreign interference with Ukraine Presidents alinskyites advisor on July Nineteen Ambassador Volker texted president trump's agent Rudy Giuliani to thank him for breakfast and to enter Loyd breakfast this morning as disgust connecting you here with Andre Your Mac who is very close to President's Alinsky I suggest we schedule a call together on Monday maybe the M or eleven pm Washington Time Kurt Sunlen briefs Alinsky ahead of call with President Trump on July nineteen twenty nineteen ambassador in our democratic process sincerely Eliot l Engel Chairman House Committee on Foreign Affairs Adam B Schiff Chairman House Permanent Select Awesome Andrea your Mac a top advisor to President Dolinsky July nineteen four forty eight PM Kerr bulker Mr Mayor Really nineteen four forty nine pm Kurt Volker can we three do a call tomorrow say noon Washington six fifty pm Gordon Sunland looks like police call tomorrow I spoke directly to Dolinsky and gave him a full briefing he's got it six fifty two P M Gordon Sunland sure seventy one. PM Kerr Volker good had breakfast with Rudy this morning teeing up call with your Mac Monday must have helped occur ambassador sunland and Mister Taylor had the following exchange about the specific goal for the upcoming telephone call between President Trump and the Ukrainian president tremendous in US politics on July twenty one twenty nineteen ambassador Taylor flagged presidents Alinsky desire for Ukraine not to be used by the trump administration Lissa DANELIUC point that President Dolinsky is sensitive about Ukraine being taken seriously not merely as an instrument in Washington domestic reelection politics for its own domestic political purposes July twenty one one forty five. Am Bill Taylor Gordon One thing curtain I talked about yesterday the most important is for Linski to say that he will help investigation and address any specific personnel issues if there are any concerns about Ukraine becoming an four forty five am Gordon summoned absolutely but we need to get the conversation started and the relationship built irrespective of the pretext I am work later that evening Ambassador Volker informed Ambassador Sunland and Taylor the Giuliani was now advocating for a phone call between President Trump and presidents Alinsky McCall Bolton if needed but I can tell Bolton and you can tell mick that rudy agrees on a call if that helps four thirty PM Gordon Sunland phone call went well president trump proposed to choose any convenient dates presidents alinsky chose twenty twenty one twenty two September for the White House visit thank you again you've eight thirty six. Am Kurt Volker good lunch thanks heard from White House assuming President Zee convinces trump he will investigate slash for your help please remind Mr to share the Madrid dates ten sixteen. Am Kurt Volker great thanks and we'll do your maximum formal read out of the trump's alinsky call following president trump's July twenty five call ambassador Volker received the following readout from Ukraine I talked to Tim Morrison violas replacement he is pushing but feel free as well Volker advises your Mac ahead of trump's Alinsky call on the morning read about the alternative Giuliani advocates for trump Zielinski call Mr chairman and Mr Giuliani agreed to speak on the morning of July twenty two Indian presidential adviser your Mac and confirmed his attempt to meet Giuliani and Madrid July twenty five ten fifteen am Andre your Mac Mount arranging a White House meeting after the Ukrainian president makes a public statement August nine five thirty five pm Gordon Sunland Morrison Ready to get dates of July twenty five twenty nineteen ahead of the planned call between President Trump and presidents alinsky ambassador Volker advised Andre Year Mac July twenty five all of weeks for twenty eight PM Kurt Volker in the meantime Rudy is now advocating for phone call I have a call into Fiona Replacement July twenty two four twenty seven. PM Kurt Volker orchestrated a great call with Rudy and your Mac they're going to get together when Rudy goes to Madrid Yup clearly lots of condos going on five forty eight pm Kurt Volker okay then that's good it's coming from two separate sources five fifty quote get to the bottom of what happened unquote in two thousand sixteen we will nail down date for visit to Washington Good Luck see you tomorrow Kurt done right thanks no Dayton time Gordon Samland good idea Kurt I am on Pacific time no date and time Rudy Giuliani yes can you call now going to fund raiser at twelve thirty Ukrainian aid seeks White House date I on August Ten Twenty Nineteen one pm Gordon Sunland to avoid misunderstandings might be helpful to ask Andrei for a draft statement embargoed so that we can see exactly what they propose to cover to speak with Mr Giuliani about the Ukrainian statement August nine eleven twenty seven a. m. Kurt Volker Hi Mr Mayor had a good chat with your arment officials seek Giuliani's guidance on Ukraine statement on August nine twenty nineteen after Mr Giuliani met with presidents Lenzi's aide Andrei your Mac Ambassador Volker asked sure I did I think produce really wants the deliverable five forty eight pm Kurt Volker but does he know that five forty eight PM Gordon Sunland briefing announcing upcoming visit and outlining vision for the reboot of US Ukraine relationship including among other things Bismah and election meddling in investigations even those e does a live presser they can still summarize in a brief statement thoughts five fifty one PM Kerr Volker agree state five forty two PM Kurt. Volker sounds great discussion of Ukrainian statement to include references to twenty sixteen election as soon as you're Matt Confirms Five Forty Six PM Kurt Volker excellent how did you swam five forty seven PM Gordon Sunland State Department officials discuss a White House visit and Ukraine Statement on August nine twenty nineteen ambassador Volker had the following exchange with Ambassador Sunland Four Forty One PM Gordon Sunland unless you think otherwise I will return Andres call tomorrow and suggest they send us a clean draft interference in the political process of the United States especially with the alleged involvement of some Ukrainian politicians. I want to declare that this is unacceptable we intend turn will prevent the recurrence of this problem in the future ten twenty seven a m Gordon Sunland perfect let's send to Andre after our call Exchange regarding the proposed Ukrainian statement August thirteen ten twenty six am Kurt Volker special attention should be paid to the problem of confirming desire to reference two thousand sixteen election and Barack Obama on August seventeen twenty nineteen ambassadors Volker sunland had the following exchange in which they discussed Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia six fifty five. Am Kurt Volker Hi Andrei absolutely when is good for you our message to Ukraine August seventeen three Oh six. PM Gordon Sunland do we still want Z.. To give us an unequivocal draft with twenty sixteen last night he was pleased with your phone call mentions the making a statement can we all get on the phone to make sure I advise the correctly as to what he should be saying want to make sure we get the you say ten am slash five pm five Oh two PM Kerr Volcker I agree with your approach let's iron out statement and use that to get date and the ration- mentioned all these things which we discussed yesterday but it will be logic to do after we receive a confirmation of date we inform about data visit and about our expectation Andre your Mac need to talk with you three Oh six am Andre your Mac this text is just a link to the politico dot com story titled Trump holds up Volker a new story entitled quote trump holds up Ukraine military aid meant to confront Russia Unquote August twenty nine to twenty eight am call me State Department officials on Security Assistance and the Ukraine quote interview unquote on September eighth initiate and complete a transparent and unbiased investigation of all available facts and episodes including those involving Berea and the twenty sixteen US elections which is Ukrainian officials shares press report of US Withholding Military Assistance on August twenty eight presidents Alinsky aide Andrei your Mac texted ambassador ends and our guarantees for future visit let discuss it five oh one pm Kurt Volker Okay it's late for you why don't we talk in my morning your afternoon tomorrow and Brisbane following August nine twenty nineteen outreach to Rudy Giuliani Ambassador Volker and Ambassador Sunland on August thirteen twenty nineteen had fallen

Ambassador Volker president trump Kurt Volker president Ukraine Rudy Giuliani Ambassador Sunland Gordon Sunland Alinsky Rudy Giuliani Ambassador Volke Mac Volker sunland Rudy White House President Dolinsky Andre Your Mac Kurt Andrei your Mac chairman Washington
State Dept. aide testifies he heard Trump call with Sondland the day after 7/25 Trump-Zelenskiy call

The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell

42:51 min | 9 months ago

State Dept. aide testifies he heard Trump call with Sondland the day after 7/25 Trump-Zelenskiy call

"The breaking news of the night is that closed door. Deposition of David. Holmes started this afternoon just ended about six hours after it started going late into the night tonight. One of the members of Congress who was in that deposition will join us as soon as he can get to US David. Holmes opening statement has been obtained by NBC News and it has has rocked Washington as much as any of the testimony already made public and it will have a profound effect on next week's hearings in in the impeachment inquiry one of the striking things revealed and David Holmes opening statement is that his testimony was actually provoked very specifically provoked by some some of the things that Republicans have been saying in the public hearings. This Week David homes had no intention of testifying to the impeachment inquiry until he saw aw that Republicans kept complaining about what they called Hearsay and David Holmes realized that he had relevant testimony that was not career say and so he testified this afternoon in a closed door under oath deposition after former Ukraine ambassador. Maria Vich testified in a dramatic public. Hearing this morning David. Holmes is a member of the senior staff of the American Ambassador to Ukraine stationed at the US embassy in in a copy of David. Holmes opening statement obtained by NBC News. He explained exactly why he came forward as the current impeachment inquiry has progressed. I have followed press reports and reviewed the statements of investor Taylor Ambassador Yovich based on my experience experience in Ukraine. My recollection is generally consistent with their testimony and I believe that the relevant facts were therefore being laid out for the American people however over in the last week or so I read press reports expressing for the first time that certain senior officials may have been acting without. The president's is knowledge in their dealings with Ukraine. At the same time I also read reports noting the lack of first hand evidence in the investigation and suggesting getting that the only evidence being elicited at the hearings was hearsay. I came to realize I had first hand. Knowledge regarding certain events on on July twenty six that had not otherwise been reported and that those officials were using the levers of our diplomatic power to induce the new Ukrainian cranium president to announce the opening of a particular criminal investigation. It is at that point that I made the observation to ambassador Taylor that the incident I had witnessed had acquired greater significance. which is what he reported in his testimony earlier this week? The evidence that David Holmes presented that is not hearsay is a telephone call made by Donald Trump's ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sunlen from a restaurant in Ukraine to the president of the United States sitting at the table with ambassador. Someone David Holmes could easily hear what the president was saying on the other end. End of that call quote investor. Someone's phone was not on speakerphone. I could hear the president's voice through the earpiece of the phone. The president's voice was very loud and recognizable. Ambassador Sunland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time presumably because of the loud volume. I heard ambassador. Mr Sunland. Greet the president and explain that he was calling from heave. I heard President trump then clarify that ambassador sunland was in Ukraine and best will solid replied. Yes he was in Ukraine and went on to state that presidents Alinsky loves your ass I then heard president trump. Ask Ask so he's GonNa do the investigation ambassador Sunland replied that he's GonNa do it. Adding Presence Alinsky will do anything you ask him into. After the call ended in vegetal sunland remarked that the president was in a bad mood. As Industrial Sunlen stated was often the case early in the morning I then took the the opportunity to ask impressed with Sunland for his candidate. Impression of the president's views on Ukraine in particular I asked him investors on if it was true that the president went nuts did not give a crap about Ukraine. Best Sunland agreed that the president did not give a crap about Ukraine. I asked why not an investor sunland stated that the president only cares about big stuff. I noted that there was big stuff going on in Ukraine like a war with Russia. An investor sunlit replied that he met big stuff that benefits the president like the Biden Investigations. But Mr Giuliani was pushing leading off our discussion. Tonight is democratic cards from Eric Swallowed California. He's a member of the House Intelligence Committee and the House Judiciary Committee he has been in the David Holmes homes closed-door deposition all afternoon and this evening and he has just left that deposition to journalists who also took part in Maria Voinovich's public look impeachment hearing earlier today. Carl swallow thank you very much for joining us. And as I understand it the deposition just wrapped up has just been completed. Good Evening Lawrence We are done with Both Ambassador Von Adventures testimony and the deposition with David Holmes. And of course tomorrow tomorrow morning bright and early We have one last witness for the week an OEM be employees. We have read as you know. The the opening statement has become public. It is a shocking enough. Just doesn't opening statement before you get to any questions after this opening being statement What was developed in the six hours of a testimony that followed it? Just what exactly did Mr Home See. What did he hear and what did he do? You know it was the reason we called him in Today eh I will say first and foremost with gratitude to Mr Holmes Because he showed up he came from Ukraine and despite Mick Mulvaney and John Bolton and Secretary Rick Perry refusing to cooperate with our investigation. Mr Holmes continues this long line of career our Foreign Service officers honoring the duty to cooperate with Congress and each time. Someone has done that just as Mr Homestead today. We have learned new information. And and we learn new information today and in terms of the The security of that phone call let cell phone call. Did you learn learn any more details about exactly. What kind of device that was? was that a personal cell phone making that. Call all the more risky so Laura. I'm not going to go into his testimony. Just yet I'll let our chairman Characterize Bat but I will say I think we're about five exits pasts operational security concerns as it relates to Donald Trump We know that Donald Trump does not really execute or carry out operational security as it relates after his cellphone. There were concerns from other witnesses about ambassador Sunlen and his own operational security. What we are focused on though is whether the president leverage taxpayer dollars there's for his personal benefit to have the Ukrainians investigators opponent? And as you heard ambassador Taylor talk about his interaction with David Holmes. I don't think there's anyone in the world who has a hard time believing that Donald Trump the day after he talked to presidents alinsky followed up with ambassador. Sahlin to say hey are are they gonNA follow through with these investigations obsessive behavior by the president because he needed those investigations for his own personal political. Game What what can you tell us about David? Holmes a credibility in the in this six hours and the Republicans approach to David Holmes Credibility. Ah Lawrence I can tell you just like people. Before him he served all over the world. you know he is a person of integrity I did not you know judge You know any judge or see any reason to question you know his truthfulness us And again the fact that he showed up says a lot about who he is compared to so many people who have chosen to defy us and I I don't expect There to be any issues with his integrity or credibility the the opening saving. I think has many things that are striking but one thing about it is. It's very clear here. The David Holmes is saying that he didn't see himself as a witness in these proceedings until he heard Republicans complaining repeatedly about out here say and he realized that what he has to say is not hearsay. A witness physically present listening to these words exactly as they were spoken spoken What was there any complaining about hearsay in this deposition tonight? I did not hear them him. Say Anything about that Lawrence However the best evidence remains the president's own words that the president put out that's an admission by the president The next has evidence we have for people like ambassador Sunlen. Who told him Basser Taylor? The president was telling him everything is on the line with with the Ukrainians. Not just the White House visit but also the security assistance and of course as ambassador Taylor described you have a new witness David. Holmes who heard the president talking obsessively about the investigations with the Biden's and finally Lawrence. We use here. Say all the time if we are talking about hearsay to find out and take actions By the way terrorists name Osama bin Laden was captured and brought to justice in a bottom BOT- Pakistan based on on hearsay evidence so hearsay evidence can be quite effective and David. Holmes was very in his opening statement Full of praise for investor. You've evaluate what was your your assessment in the end of that of the of the effect of the public hearing this morning. The American people saw a smart dedicated. Tough anti-corruption ambassador who was removed removed from her post math because she was not fighting corruption but because she was fighting corruption and she was a barrier to president trump wanting to weaponized corruption to his personal benefit. I also believe Lawrence that this was bigger than just ambassador Yvonna Vich and and she recognized that that if the the president can do this to her he can do it to anyone and that should be of great concern that the president will use his powers to act this way she acknowledged. The president has every right to remove someone from from office. If it's for a good reason not if it's for a corrupt reason without necessarily specific reference to David Holmes testimony. which I know you can't reveal any more? About how much more trouble is Gordon. Sunlen in in his testimony next week. He's already changed. His testimony to your committee wants For fear of possible perjury charge of a testimony that he had that was in conflict with other under oath witnesses now. He has a major major conflict in his testimony. David Holmes he never said a word about this cell phone call and clearly gave testimony indicating that he had no additional additional communication with the president that wasn't included in his testimony This is very clearly. The David testimony is a very clear contradiction of that. So where do you see Gordon Son's possible legal jeopardy at this point tonight. Gordon silent has the opportunity to come forward and do the right thing on Wednesday Lawrence. I have a different view of Gordon. Silent because as a prosecutor I presented to juries a lot of witnesses like Gordon Sunland Donlan people who were not necessarily forthcoming. At the first time they were asked to recall something that happened but over time for a variety of reasons is usually because they want to do the right thing of volve and give the full version of the truth and Mr Samland I hope comes forward on Wednesday and gives us that version because because this investigation his obligation to the constitution and our country in the integrity of this process is relying on. That car's been Eric's Eric's while well. Thank you very much for joining us after this very long day for the committee's works. I really appreciate it. Thank you appreciate it. We'll hear is rudy. Giuliani's Janis entry in David Holmes under oath deposition testimony to the impeachment inquiry today at one point during a preliminary meeting of the inauguration delegation. Someone wondered aloud about why. Mr Giuliani was so active. In the media. With respect to Ukraine my recollection is that amvest best respondents stated damn it rudy every time rudy gets involved he goes and FS everything up generous gushing out out Glenn Kirschner former Federal Prosecutor Msnbc legal analysts Nico Yang a former staff member for the House Intelligence Committee and ambassador. Wendy Sherman Former Under Secretary of State for political affairs she is in MSNBC global affairs contributor and ambassador. Sherman I WANNA get your reaction to this new testimony not that we're learning of tonight From David Holmes this is a high ranking US staff member in the embassy in Ukraine. WHO's as a note taker? He's been in countless meetings with the president of Ukraine and the previous president of Ukraine. This is a a detail man as it were. And this is his his a clear and precise account of the Gordon Sunlen phone. Call your reaction to that. Indeed David Holmes was the put counselor that means he was in charge of the political section. He was the adviser about the politics of Ukraine not our politics but the politics of Ukraine a crane and one thing that your viewers and I hope all the members of Congress understand even though he did not take contemporaneous notes The Foreign Service this trains its officers particularly its political counselors to have complete recall of what goes on because they find themselves in many situations. That's where they cannot write a memo they cannot do contemporaneous notes but never in all of my life except when I served at the State Department over eleven years. Did I see anything like this. Where these foreign service officers were called it all and I think David Holmes is to be really thanks? Thanks for being a patriots like so many of his other colleagues have over the last few days and come all the way from Kief to give this testimony. Not only about this is just gob. Smacking call. That happened in the open without any operational security whatsoever as you've already pointed out but really sharing doing all kinds of stuff with staff without regard not only to security. But the fact that he wasn't being loyal to the president of the United States he was just being his zone guy having in his view a ball rather than realizing that he was playing with the national security of the United States. Miko Yang if fewer still With the Intelligence Committee you would have been in that closed door deposition today. Taking notes there as as a staff person I I WANNA get your reaction to into what is very clear and David. Holmes opening statement that the reason he came forward is what he was hearing from Republicans he doesn't say say Republicans but he says all the complaints that he was reading about about hearsay testimony and he realized that. Okay I I have something to say that he's not here. Say something to testify about that. I was present for. That's very important along with several other elements of his testimony that support of the testimony of other other witnesses. Yes it's really interesting because what we've seen throughout these open hearings are the Republicans trying particular defenses of the president of the United States. Saying Chang this is hearsay evidence. There's due process problem. That perhaps Sunland Giuliani were freelancing on their own the problem the House Republicans have with every single. One of their defenses. is they have no idea whether or not those defenses can be contradicted by fact witnesses. who heard things first-hand as they saw David Holmes do today in this disclosed testimony? He's basically destroyed a number of lines of argument that the Republicans are going to use to try and defend the president because he was there and the facts. Just do not support support with air arguing. Kirschner I just want to give you a kind of a wide open field for the prosecutors view of David Holmes testimony the thing that occurs to me obviously is wow. This is a very sharp contradiction with Gordon Sunland. And this seems to put Gordon Sunland in some real trouble some real pressure for his testimony. Next week it sure does Lawrence and I have two quick observations one on form in one on substance. When I was reading Mr Holmes Opening Statement I noticed that he started with these words? I did not seek this opportunity to testify. Can I tell you. In my thirty years. As a prosecutor I had so many witnesses come in and say Mr Kirschner. I don't want to testify and pretty much to a person Jason. When they said that you knew they were about to blow somebody up with some truthful incriminating testimony so I think it actually in Hansen's his credibility that he didn't seek out this opportunity to testify now on substance? You've already related. Some of what some some of the information provided but there was one additional line that caught my attention when Sunland told mister homes you know what not only is he ready to do the investigation. He will do anything that you president trump asked him to do. And you know what I'll bet that's true I'll bet presidents presidents alinsky would do anything. President trump asked of him whether it was righteous or not because President Alinsky was trying to save the lives of of his people. He was trying to protect the sovereignty of his country against unlawful Russian aggression. And so I read read this interaction and this conversation overheard between silent and trump as basically arms for political dirt. Art Deal done bribery complete. That's what this was ambassador. Sherman I WANNA get your reaction to what is the last line of of David. Holmes opening statement that has been obtained by NBC News The last line is Ukrainians and freedom. Loving people everywhere are watching the example apple we set of democracy and the rule of law your reaction to that Ambassador Sherman. Indeed he begins that section by saying next week. It'll be six years ago. Since Ukrainian citizens came into Independence Square to really create the revolution that got Russia out until until they took Crimea and now are on the Don Bass trying a hot war with Ukraine. So it's very present for him that that this is not only consequential to Ukraine but as he said as Masha Ivanovich said today. This is saying to people all over the world. If you don't like our ambassador if you don't like what they're trying to do to bring democracy to end corruption to have human freedom and human dignity they all you have to do is call Rudy. Giuliani get a couple of guys like and you can get rid of that embassador. It undermines our credibility credibility and undermines our reliability and it says really what Russia has been trying to perpetrate all over the world. Which is you can count on Russia? You can't count on in the United States because you never know what the guy with the twitter finger s going to do next best. Wendy Sherman Meco Yang Glenn Kirschner. Thank you all for your expertise tonight. Really appreciate it and when we come back we have never seen a president live tweet. His own impeachment hearing until today and in the process the president may have added a new article of impeachment against him. Harvard law. School professor Laurence tribe joins US next with his reaction to the tweet tweet. That could be a crime hey. MSNBC listeners it's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico on a day to day basis Canada and Mexico affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere else in the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent her professional life in service to the United States. In her case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation of the US US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large and vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world and bringing the world back to America. Please join me for that conversation with. Roberta Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on. MSNBC's the oath available now wherever you get your podcasts. President trump actually tweeted his way into today's impeachment inquire wire hearing with former ambassador of Ukraine Maria Vich and in the process the president may have created another article of impeachment against against the president. which as we sit her testifying? The president is attacking you twitter. And I'd like to give you a chance chance to respond. I'll read heart of one of his tweets everywhere. Marie Ivanovich went turn bad. She started off in Somalia. How did that go? He goes on to say Later on the tweet is a US presence absolute right to appoint ambassadors first of all about which Senate has a chance to confirm denying a bastard. Do they not. Yes advise and consent. The president implicitly threatened to in that call record and now the president. real-time attacking you. What effect do you think that has on other witnesses? Willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing. It's very intimidating dime designed to intimidate. Is it not. I mean I can't speak to what what the president is trying to do but I think the effect is to be intimidating. Well I want to let you faster that some of us here take take witness. Intimidation varies very seriously joining us. Now is laurence tribe. He is a Harvard law. PROFESSOR OF CONSTITUTIONAL LAW CO author of to end a presidency power of impeachment. I tried thank you for joining us once again tonight. Really appreciate it your reaction to what that about tweet means legally it is witness intimidation pure and simple if it were anyone other than the president. This person would be subject to indictment and prosecution and based on the words right out of his twitter feed feed probably conviction under the United States Criminal Code Section fifteen twelve B one and B two but the more important certain point is that this president just can't stand not being at the center of the action even if it is at his own expense. No in in the book that you showed a that. I wrote about impeachment. One of the predictions I made. Is that the way a truly guilty realty president reacts to being in the spotlight of the impeachment process is itself likely to make a huge huge difference. It's not just what the president does at the very beginning but it's the way he melts down in the process of being impeached impeached. That ultimately will lead for the first time in American history to a president's complete downfall that was a prediction that I I think is coming true and I think more in sadness really then enjoy. We're witnessing it in on live TV. Nancy Pelosi said something today that is that is similar to that in that it is about the presence very nature let. Let's watch this. He made a mistake Jake and he knows her strength and he was trying to undermine the words of the president way at ton they are very significant for can't and he should not frivolously throw out in salt but that's what he does. I think part of it is his own insecurity as an impostor. I think he knows full. Well that he's in that office way over his head and so he has to diminish everyone else and she was talking about the tweet that he sent out attacking the ambassador during her testimony. Like this become an article of impeachment Justin A. Masha was a former Republican. Member of the House of Representatives had to switch to become an independent when he A turned in favor of impeachment. tweeted today. Expect witness tampering to be an article of impeachment. Well it certainly certainly an impeachable. It's a high crime and misdemeanor without any doubt but I think it could easily be folded into the broader article that at chairmanship has already indicated is likely to be recommended to the Judiciary Committee and that is an article focusing on the obstruction and defiance defiance of Congress. Now as we saw with Mush Ivanovich in the Bassett or Taylor and today in the deposition of David Holmes that defiance of Congress doesn't always work but that doesn't prevent it from being a central article of impeachment and part of that article we'll surely be witness intimidation of the first order. I would rather not see an endless series of separate impeachment articles but then in the end that's a judgment call that the judiciary committee and the entire Congress under the guidance ultimately of Speaker Pelosi you going to have to make a no president Under these kinds of investigations has ever made it more difficult for the house. Representatives to narrow down Their articles of impeachment accusations. He certainly makes it hard. He makes it hard to go with the mantra. That small is beautiful. Because in this case really proliferating series of articles are possible including emoluments obstruction of justice being an impostor posture to begin with by asking for Russia's help to become president and then taking advantage of it but I think that Nancy Pelosi is right. That less is more. In this case we have to focus a narrow down but ultimately it's going to be up to senators to ask. Can we really go. Oh Down with this ship regarding to stick with this kind of abuse of power of the constitution until the very end or do we have some ultimate degree of self respect. I'm beginning to think that self respect will finally emerge from the Senate Chamber but Harvard. I've been wrong before but right more than wrong harvard. Law Professor Laurence tribe honor to. Have you with us. Really appreciate you joining US tonight. Thank you very much good to be with you and when we come back big Republicans surprise and today's impeachment. Hearing their big surprise the one they planned plant backfired spectacularly and proved the Donald Trump was actually lying about his first phone call with the president of of Ukraine today. The White House actually admitted that the White House lied about President and trump's first phone call with the president of Ukraine. The White House released their transcript of that first phone call this morning. Thanks so that. The top Republican on the Intelligence Committee Devon Nunez could read it in his opening remarks. At this morning's hearing with former ambassador to Ukraine Maria Ivanovich Devin Nunez and the Republicans seem very proud of Donald trump for getting through the entire short phone. Call without not saying anything that could be interpreted as criminal or impeachable. In fact the phone call turned out to be a very simple congratulatory phone. Call to then president-elect's intellect Celeski for winning. His election couldn't have been simpler. President trump congratulated him and promised to meet with him about it. It was as legal phone calls. Donald Trump has ever made since this donald trump on the phone. Though this is the way he expressed his good feelings for Ukraine. When I owned Miss Universe they always had great people? Ukraine always very well represented was always very well represented when you're settled in and ready. I'd like to invite you to the White House. We'll have a lot of things to talk about. But we're with you all the way that invitation. The White House was everything that president-elect's Alinsky could have hoped for in that phone call. An actual date of the invitation would have been even better but president-elect select Alexa Alinsky was still pretty happy Zelinski. Thank you for the invitation. We accept the invitation and look forward to the visit. Thank you again the whole team and I are looking forward to the visit and that was about it that same day April twenty. First the White House put out their their official summary of that phone call and it was cold. I mean filled with lies. It said. President trump underscored scored the unwavering support of the United States for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders and expressed his commitment to work together with president-elect Zielinski and the Ukrainian people to implement reforms that strengthened democracy increased prosperity and root out corruption. Not One one word of that is true not one word. President trump had more to say about Miss Universe than he did about corruption in Ukraine. And as has Gordon Sunland could tell you. Donald Trump didn't say one word that indicated that he cared at all about Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. So so the telephone call transcript that was the Republicans big surprise at the hearing at the beginning of the hearing simply proved what anyone could have guessed which is the Donald Trump cares more about miss universe than he does about corruption in Ukraine. And that phone call transcript did nothing to diminish the the power of Maria virtues testimony. That's next foreign corrupt interests. Apparently gently hijacked our Ukraine policy. I remain disappointed that the department's leadership and others have declined to acknowledge that the attacks against me and others are dangerously wrong jill wine banks as well as a former assistant Watergate special prosecutor in an MSNBC legal analyst in investor Rester. Wendy Sherman is back with us. Joe And banks in empty ambassadors testimony. Today she seemed to make it very clear. What the outlines of the Corrupt policy was the corrupted policy. And how that policy was as she just said hijacked and I didn't hear any Republican publican questioning that in any way shook any of those elements of her testimony. They landed not one single blow. They did not dare dare attack her credibility or her patriotism and the facts are totally against them and totally in support of everything she. She said everything. That ambassador Taylor said everything that secretary. Ken said it is looking really like a strong case. and and she did a really amazing job. I think everyone in the country who saw that and anyone who didn't must go on Youtube and watch it She was really strong and powerful witness for the government. Not just for herself but just about the State Department and all the things that they do for us as Americans and she made it clear why Ukraine matters to our national security. Why if they don't Fight Russia we may end up having to do it and I thought it was a really powerful moving presentation. Republicans repeatedly made the obvious a constitutional point that the president does get to appoint ambassadors. They always leave out. But it's subject to the confirmation process in the Senate And also so that the foreign policy is the president's to make A. Let's listen to one member Congress Trying to make this point that the policy is up to the president. Let's watch this. I just wanted to to make that point that the president has a right to have their own foreign policy and to make their own decisions without. Oh you bet if I could just supplement one of my answers so I wanNA thank you for your service as well But what I'd like to say is I I I Obviously don't dispute that. The president has the right to to withdraw ambassador at at any time for any reason But what I do wonder is why it was necessary to smear my reputation. Embassador Sherman Republicans did not answer that question. They did not answer that question. One of the most heartbreaking things today Lawrence. This is that secretary. pompeo is nowhere in this story except absent while on duty he provided no support To Ambassador Ivanovich Donovan which he offered no support to the others. Who have testified? It says if he's you know trotting around the world and absence from being really the secretary of state. I've served four secretaries of state. They all cared about the people in the building and although they were democratic secretaries of state one of the most popular in history as George Shultz Republican because he cared and put everyone in the building I he really is a role model for all the secretary critique of state for whom I have served but what Secretary Pompeo has in mind here. Maybe it's to run in Kansas. Maybe it's to keep the loyalty of the president. But he should know by now that that loyalty only goes one way and the foreign service who really stand up for all of us as Jill just said have learned that secretary. Terry Pompeo does not stand with them. A Jill just a quick word on Adam shifts Sharing of the hearing I notice it opened with a lot of attempted chaos by the Republicans that said to me that they were disappointed. The Republicans were disappointed with how well the previous hearings had gone. And their strategy today was to disrupt but Adam Adam shift just gaveled them down repeatedly and quickly and then completely held onto control of that hearing as much as a combat which has been a hero to me and most Americans today. So was Adam Schiff. He was calm cool collected. He controlled flat tire hearing room. He did not take any Gulf and nonsense and jokes. This is not a joke. This is a serious hearing and the Republicans because they don't have any facts argue and don't have any procedures to argue are just trying to be disruptive in general and I think they're starting to look really bad so shifted a great job July banks. Wendy Sherman thank you both for joining us on this important Friday night. Really appreciate it. Thank you Lawrence and when we come back. We'll discuss the guilty verdict in the Roger Stone trial today and how it might affect Gordon Suns under oath testimony in his public hearing next week. Richard Nixon is finally going to prison on Roger Stone's back Roger Stone's started his career as a Republican political operative in fifty years ago in the era of his Eitel disgraced president Richard Nixon who was pardoned by President Ford for all the crimes Nixon committed while President President Roger Stone became Donald Trump's longest serving political advisor in the final prosecution of the molestation Roger Stone was found guilty today by a Washington D.. ABC Jury on all seven counts of lying to Congress tampering with a witness and obstructing the House of Representatives investigation into the Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election Roger. Your stone is now these sixth associated with President trump to be convicted of crimes since the president took office that is the fastest rate of criminal the middle conviction of presidential associates in history. WHO's next Gordon? SONDHEIM has already changed his under oath. Testimony wants to avoid perjury charges in today's revelation about the details of his cell phone call from a restaurant in Ukraine to president. Trump will require Gordon Sunlen to change his testimony Mooney once again next week in public. But will that be enough for Gordon. Sunland to avoid Roger Stone's fate back with US Glenn Kirshner who has been at the courthouse. Every day of the Roger Stone Trial and was there today when the verdict came in Glen A. What does this verdict mean? Going forward for the investigation nation for possible. Witnesses Gordon Sanlam. I would say Lawrence that Gordon Sauna and better sit up and take note of what happened today to Roger Stone on the witness tampering front and when he raises his right hand and he swears to Congress. To tell the truth he had better not play any games. Because you know when when you look get what has happened today alone on the witness tampering front. You've got president trump sending out that tweet that the famine Tori threatening tweet to Ambassador Savannah Vich as your previous guest. Professor Laurence tribe said that sort of fits the bill for witness intimidation and then over in federal court. Today you have a Roger Stone being convicted of witness tampering. You know you have to start to wonder when applicants for jobs apply to the trump administration ministration and they show their resumes. Do the folks look at it and say well you know that all looks looks good. How're you a tampering with witnesses? Doc and that's a light hearted take on a very serious issue. I mean when you consider the seven charges that Roger Stone was convicted of today. The first six six carry a maximum punishment of five years in prison. The seventh witness tampering carries up to twenty years in prison. I think Gordon Donlan better pay attention to that. Blend a word on how close this Roger Stone case got to Donald Trump one of the things. He's convicted for was lying about about a phone. Call that Roger Stone had with President Trump. And it's one of those phone calls a cell phone call during the campaign. That's overheard by someone in in this case Rick Gates. Yeah how close did it get. It bumped right up against Donald Trump because of that phone call which showed according to Gates testimony Tony that president trump was intimately involved in real time courtesy of Roger Stone with the wikileaks dump dump so that sure looks more like just passively receiving information it looks like coordination and it looks a lot like a conspiracy when Kirschner. Thank you for doing double duty this week covering the Roger Stone case for us all when since we're all distracted with so much else really appreciated Glenn Thank you Lawrence. That is tonight's last word. Hey It's Chris Hayes. You don't sometimes it's good to just take step back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look at the issues that I'm doing each week a my podcast. Why is this happening? We're exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think of it is is climate. Change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations as you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts?

president President trump Ukraine David Holmes President President Roger Ston President Alinsky US Ambassador Sunland Congress David Sunland Giuliani Gordon Sunlen Wendy Sherman Lawrence Wendy Sherman Meco Yang Glenn Taylor Ambassador Yovich Basser Taylor Sunland MSNBC Yvonna Vich
NPR News: 02-07-2020 8PM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 6 months ago

NPR News: 02-07-2020 8PM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Jeanine herbst. Several people lost their jobs. The White House today lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Vincent the National Security aide who testified in president. Trump's impeachment trial was fired from his job at the National Security Council. His lawyer David precedents has been men's twin. Lieutenant Colonel Yevgeni than men and Iraq war vet and a senior lawyer ethics official on that same council was also escorted out of the White House today and fired. Meanwhile trump is also recalling. US Ambassador Asadollah to the European Union. Gordon Sunland Ambassador Sunland delivered damaging testimony during the impeachment inquiry seven of the top Democratic contenders. UNDERS will face off on national television tonight. The last presidential debate in New Hampshire starts at eight. PM Eastern launches the last weekend of campaigning there. And here's Tom. Green List has more from Manchester with the shock waves. From Monday's Iowa caucuses still rippling through the Democratic field. Several candidates have been sharpening their attacks. Here in new the Hampshire this week former vice president Joe Biden's campaign had been setting low expectations in Iowa and finish fourth seeking a reset and New Hampshire Biden has been emphasizing potential liabilities of his rivals knocking former South Bend Mayor Buddha judge for having not held national office and Senator Bernie Sanders saying he'll have to carry the democratic socialist label through November. Expect those teams to play out on. Tonight's debate stage San Greenglass News Manchester. The death toll in China China from the corona virus went up again today to seven hundred twenty two and the number of confirmed cases now approaching thirty five thousand. The State Department Department says it's prepared to spend up to one hundred million dollars to help China and other countries contain and combat the epidemic as NPR's Michelle Kellerman reports. The department has already already delivered medical supplies and evacuated hundreds of Americans. Deputy Secretary of State Steve Begin calls it an all hands on deck approach. He says has the State Department has sent several charter flights to Wuhan China and has evacuated more than eight hundred Americans. The State Department working closely with our partners in China has loaded the holds of those arriving seven forty sevens with eighteen tons of privately donated medical supplies and humanitarian assistance. For the Chinese. People begins as those private donations included respirators as well as masks and other needed materials. The deputy secretary says the US government will provide aid to up to one hundred million dollars Michelle Kellerman NPR news Washington Wall Street lower by the closing bell. The Dow down two hundred. It's seventy seven points to end the day at twenty nine thousand one hundred two. That's down nearly one percent. The Nasdaq was down. Fifty one points to close at Ninety five twenty the S&P impeach five hundred down eighteen points to end at thirty three twenty seven for the SNP and the Nasdaq. That's both down. More than a half percent this is. NPR The National Transportation Safety Board says. There's no outward sign of engine failure in the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant and eight other people almost three weeks ago in its its initial report. The NTSB says the Sikorsky helicopter collided with hilly terrain in Calabasas California January twenty. Sixth investigators also say they have a substantial amount of evidence in the crash. They say they're confident. They'll be able to determine a cause any contributing factors sports writer Roger. Kahn has died at the age of ninety two. He had been living at a nursing home in a suburb of New York City as NPR's Ted Robbins reports conroe many books but he will forever for P. Known for one classic for many Baseball Fans Roger Kahn's nineteen seventy-two book. The boys of summer is the best memoir ever written about the sport. Sports illustrated ranked it as one of the best sports books period. The boys of summer is about the Brooklyn dodgers of the early nineteen fifties. Jackie Robinson. peewee reese Duke Snider. It was also about Khan's days as a young reporter covering the team. Roger Conrad other books both fiction and nonfiction many about baseball baseball. His best writing wasn't about technique or strategy. It was about the way baseball drew people in with its athletes and its atmosphere Ted Robbins Robbins. NPR News could all prices were lower by the close falling one point two percent. That's down sixty one cents ending the day at fifty fifty dollars thirty four cents on the New York Mercantile Exchange Wall Street lower by the bell. I'm Janine Herbst N._P._R.. News in Washington.

NPR News State Department Department China China Ted Robbins Robbins baseball New Hampshire Deputy Secretary White House Washington Gordon Sunland Ambassador Sunl Michelle Kellerman US Roger Kahn Jeanine herbst National Security Council Colonel Alexander Vincent Trump National Security aide National Transportation Safety Joe Biden
Day 1,030: New details emerge after marathon impeachment testimony

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

45:31 min | 9 months ago

Day 1,030: New details emerge after marathon impeachment testimony

"Tonight another historic day of impeachment hearings in Washington and a colossally bad day for Donald Trump. And then it got worse late today. New testimony from A.. New Witness about what the president said over a cell phone call loud enough to over here. This was the day when a veteran. US ambassador told her story about. I'm getting caught up in a smear campaign feeling threatened being pushed out of her job and sent home and as she spoke in real time she was attacked and trolled by the president of the United States and Roger Stone. The president's friend of over thirty years is tonight a convicted felon the jury verdict guilty on all seven counts. He's now facing years in federal prison. The eleventh hour just now getting underway on a Friday night well good evening once again from our NBC News Headquarters here in New York Day. One Thousand Thirty of the trump administration brings brand new testimony so mony from critical impeachment witnesses. None of it good for the President Maria von Avik Longtime Foreign Service officer now former ambassador to Ukraine. Oh Crane told Congress and the viewing audience watching at home how trump and his people worked at driver from her job more on that in a moment the other witness state State Department official David Home stationed at the. US Embassy in Ukraine appeared behind closed doors for six hours ending tonight. He testified defied about an incident that we first learned about on Wednesday on live television during testimony from the former top diplomat in Ukraine ambassador. William Taylor her. It was about how homes overheard a phone call between trump and donor turned EU ambassador. Gordon Sunlen in which the president asked Sunlen a few crame name would investigate the Biden's this conversation took place one day after the now infamous trump phone call with the Ukrainian president and a reminder it it took place over a cell phone at a restaurant in Kiev. NBC News obtained a copy of David Holmes Opening Statement. Here's part of what he said. Quote while Ambassador Assan. Lind's phone was not on speakerphone. I could hear the president's voice through the earpiece of the phone. President's voice was very loud and recognizable and ambassador Sunland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time. I heard embassador. Sunlen greet the president and explained that he was calling from Kiev heard. President trump then clarify ambassador. Sunland Donlan was in Ukraine. BASSETT's online replying. Yes he was in Ukraine went on to state. Presidents' Alinsky loves your ASS. I then heard president trump bask show. He's GonNa do the investigation ambassador Sunlen replied that he's GonNa do it. Adding the president's Alinsky will do anything you ask him to. Even though I did not take notes of these statements I have a clear recollection that these statements were made. I believe that my colleagues who were sitting at the table also knew that ambassador sunland among was speaking with the President Ambassador Sunland agreed that the president did not give a blank about Ukraine. I asked why not and ambassador. sunlen stated the president only cares about big stuff. I noted there was big stuff going on in Ukraine like a war with Russia and Bassett or Sunlen replied that he meant big stuff that it benefits. The president like the Biden investigation. That Mr Giuliani was pushing Gordon. SUNLAND has already amended his first version of closed door. We're testimony wants and in plain English here. He now has a lot of explaining to do. We will hear from Gordon. Sunlen himself when he testifies in public on on Wednesday that brings us to today's open. Hearing the second in the impeachment investigation as we mentioned Congress heard from ousted ambassador to Ukraine a crane Maria von of it. She started with a description of her time as a diplomat representing our country. I have moved thirteen times terms and served in seven different countries five of them hardship posts. My first tour was Mogadishu Somalia an increasingly dangerous place place as that country's civil war grinding on I helped open our embassy in Tashkent who's Pakistan as we were establishing relations with a new country free. Our small embassy was attacked by gunmen. Who sprayed the embassy building with gunfire later served in Moscow in in nineteen ninety-three during the attempted coup in Moscow? In Russia I was caught in crossfire between presidential and parliamentary forces. We have established. This awesome Basseterre doesn't scare easily. She then went on to describe how she was removed from her post in Ukraine and reaction when she learned that trump had made disparaging comments about her in that call on July twenty fifth. You said that the decorative deputy secretary of state told you that you had done a nothing wrong but that there was a concerted campaign against you. What did what did he mean by that? I'm not exactly exactly sure But I took it to me that The allegations that Mayor Giuliani and others were putting out there here at the he said the word said every foreign service officer understands the president has lost confidence in you. The president has the right to to withdrawn ambassador at at any time for any reason but what I do wonder is why it was necessary. And to smear my reputation you had left Ukraine by the time of the July twenty fifth call between President Trump and presidents Alinsky. When was the first time that you saw the call record for this phone call? When it was released publicly at the the end of September I was shocked and devastated that I would feature and a phone call between two heads of state in such a manner where president trump said that? I was bad news to another world leader. It was a terrible moment. A person who saw me actually reading the transcript said that the color drained from my face I think I even had a physical reaction. The former ambassador also spoke of her concerns about cryptic reference from trump to the president of Ukraine. What did you think when president trump told presidents alinsky? And you read that you were going to go through some things. I didn't know what to think but I was very concerned. Were you concerned about. She's GonNa go through some things. It didn't sound good sounded like did you feel threatened while all this was unfolding trump. who was presumably watching at the White House? Despite denials to the contrary decided to attack quote everywhere Maria Vich went turned bad she started it often. Somalia how did that go then. Fast forward Ukraine where the new Ukrainian president spoke unfavourably about her and my second phone call with him it is a US. Presidents absolute right to appoint embassador 's not long after that and in real time intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff decided sided to let you Banovic respond as we sit here testifying. The president is attacking you twitter. And I'd like to give you a chance. Has To respond to I'll read part of one of his tweets everywhere. Marie Ivanovich went turn bad. She started off in Somalia. How did that go? He goes on to say a later in. The tweet is a US presence absolute right to appoint ambassadors first of all eventually which the Senate has a chance to confirm or deny investor. Do they not yes advise and consent. But would you like to respond to the president's attack that everywhere you went turned bat. I I mean I don't I don't think I have such powers not Mogadishu Somalia at me not in other places. What effect do you think that has on other witnesses? This is willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing. Well it's very intimidating. Well I want to let you know that some of us here take witness intimidation very very seriously late this afternoon. The president offered his his own defense of his move. What do you say to Democrats and say you were witness tampering? This morning. When you made that tweet I'll tell you about what tampering is? Tampering thing is when a guy like shifty shift doesn't let us have lawyers. Tampering is when shift doesn't let us have witnesses doesn't let us speak. I have the right to speak. I have freedom of speech just as other people do also. Today there were two other developments that could point to future troubles for this president. The Wall Street Journal reporting that the feds in New York are investigating whether Rudy Giuliani stood to personally profit from a Ukrainian natural gas business pushed by his indicted associates. Lev Andy Gore Gore. who were allegedly helping? Giuliani the launch investigations. That could benefit the president and Roger Stone as we mentioned trump's longtime political adviser or an ally he is now a convicted felon more on that later in this broadcast and finally what happened. Today's hearing came to an end. Something you don't often conc- in the capital here is a moment and here is what happened when the ambassador had completed her testimony it so a round of applause for the witness today. Here for for our leadoff discussion on a Friday night. Jeremy Bash former chief of staff at the CIA and the Pentagon notably former chief counsel to that Very Committee House Intelligence Melania sonatina Congressional reporter for Politico and Mike mcfaul former US ambassador to Russia notably. His book is titled From Cold War Too hot piece. The American Ambassador in Putin's Russia Jeremy. I'd like to begin with you. It's been a long day. The evidence has been devastating. Take a step back back. Take a look back. What did we learn today? What did we learn about these witnesses? And what did the president reveal about himself. Well when the curtain went up today Brian and I think many of us thought what possibly could ambassador von which add to the story because of course she had been ousted by the time. The president got on the phone the president's Alinsky of Ukraine on July twenty fifth but in fact as it turns out she was potentially the most significant witness to date. I I think her testimony was an emotional pivot point because here sat a career Foreign Service leader thirty three years veteran of the State Department who essentially was fighting corruption in Ukraine and the first obstacle that the trump team saw in trying to remove her so that they can get their way in Ukraine crane was to push her aside and she received anonymous phone. Call late one night while on the job telling her that her security was in jeopardy that she had to come back to Washington and when she gave that testimony Brian you could hear a pin drop and then of course right then. In real time. The president was tweeting about her. The Chairman asked her to respond and she said she felt intimidated. This witness intimidation happened in real time. It was one of the most historic congressional hearings. I think any of us have ever seen and I think it really wasn't emotional. Turning point for this impeachment inquiry Mike mcfaul. There are two types of movie producers in Hollywood those who write checks and those who produce the movies there are two types of ambassadors those who write checks and receive their positions positions through patronage with just hardly new to these times and those who are members of the Career Foreign Service clearly this ambassador sitter as we're you as a member of the latter category. What did she reveal of herself today? That you already knew to be true. Well I have worked with embassador Ivanovich for a couple of. I've known her for a couple of decades. When I was in the government I worked with her? She was at the State Department when I was a the. US Ambassador in Russia. I was not surprised by her testimony. Although it was incredibly moving and I encourage people if you want to see what a Patriot is you wanna see what a a hero is. Please look it's excerpts of it What is important however I think for the narrative is what didn't get Done today in seven hours of testimony I watched every single hour of it sitting in this chair by the way not once did anybody not on the Republican side side challenge the basic facts in the case and the basic time-line remember. She was pushed aside because Giuliani and his two sidekicks rex. We're working with Senko to try to open an investigation on Hunter Biden and it wasn't working by the way they tried to get her out of the way. Hey and then they go to plan. B. That's ambassador sunlen comes in. That's when the three Amigos come in and this phone call that maybe we'll talk about in a minute. That's when they're trying to work to get the same thing done but I think it's really important for everybody to understand that this was something. The president was seeking to achieve months before this July twenty fifth for phone call and not once and seven hours of testimony did any Republican challenge those basic facts. Melania Zano applause breakout in a hearing room on Capitol Hill. You know if you're the Republicans you may have a problem and we note. Following the president's attack Republican publican questioners started lining up to say at the start of their questioning. We thank you for your service. This is getting tougher for them. What have you gleaned from them and your reporting this afternoon? You're absolutely right. There is not a coincidence that they went out of their way to thank her for her service. That's because they plotted yesterday to not directly attack her. They didn't WanNA play into the Democrats hands in painter as a sympathetic figure. They wanted to focus on the idea that the president had every right to appoint and fire whoever he wanted his embassador. The problem is is that the president came in mid hearing with a tweet and blew up their entire strategy. I mean Republicans that I talk up to were absolutely dumbfounded that he would do this in fact one Republican winning even talk to me about it. We sort of caught is as he was walking out of the House Chamber and then he immediately whip out his phone. Put it up to his ear and I could see that as homes green was Dhillon he clearly was not on the phone but he just waiting me even as I ran after him. But it just goes to show you so republicans time and time again. They'll try to sort of lay the groundwork for these carefully orchestrated plans and the president will come in and blow it up and there really are limits to his trust my gut instincts when it comes to the impeachment defense and it makes it harder and harder for Republicans to defend him and not only that but now you have Democrats on Capitol Hill talking about adding witness intimidation to a potential articles of impeachment. So this was just a terrible morning. Republicans privately they do concede that they feel like Democrats are winning the narrative hair. And they're really going to have to reset for next week. They had to know. This wasn't supposed to be easy melanie but they also have to know that their jobs as you point out next week probably just got tougher. Yeah that's exactly right. I mean the other challenge for Republicans is that you've seen their defenses crumble. One by one and part of the reason is because they don't know what's around the corner even after all of these depositions and and these transcripts we're still getting new information including as you mentioned earlier David Holmes testifying today that he did hear the president on this phone. Call talk about the investigations investigations. And that's another problem for Republicans because their key defense charity has been talking about the fact that none of the witnesses thus far have been firsthand account witnesses but that's GonNa Change especially if they bring homes in front of the committee which I assume that they will. So Jeremy Bash. Let's go to the homes of phone call and his six Hours of closed-door testimony ending. Tonight here's another guy. A government worker. We did not know about prior to this a guy. Hi with no motive to lie precisely everything to lose by coming forward. Tell us in the tableau of a restaurant in Kiev. Have over a cell phone. How his whole story differs from the norm where communicating with presidents is concerned will normally when diplomats through overseas and their community getting back to the White House certainly with the president? A diplomat will go into a secure facility and speak on a classified or secure line but not ambassador Sunlen. He called the president from a restaurant in Kiev. Had the president's speaking loudly into Sunland cell phone and there were others in in the restaurant who could hear the conversation coming out of someone's phone and what home says he heard the president. Say was I want you to press forward on those investigations. Can you guarantee guarantee that the Ukrainians are doing those investigations of the Biden's and silence said he's going to do anything you want Mr President he he refers his Alinsky. He'll do anything you ask. And so clearly this direct evidence of the president not only demanding the investigations but directing someone to carry. Sorry it out. I think if anybody tries to throw someone under the bus and say he was freelancing homes is going to contradict that testimony directly and say no it was the president who directed it and I heard him say hi it and more than that Mike mcfaul. There's a story that we learned today. Sunland trying to arrange a meeting with his equivalent in Kiev trying to make sure. There's no no taker present. How big a red flag is that? How big a break from the norm that you were raised on? Well I just underscored this. This really important thing that the president's voice now is directly involved in telling his lieutenants here one of his three Amigos what what to do and they're all giving each other high fives. But that's a great tidbit. You picked up on Brian in David Holmes testimony. By the way another guy that used to work with me in Moscow Just so you know. Everybody says nobody ever heard of him. I'd heard of them before. I straight Star who going to a lot of risk to do this by the way he's mid-career person with a lot of time in the government ahead of him but that year mark right the presidential aide. He knows that this is sensitive stuff. He doesn't doesn't want the note taker there that somebody showing sophistication and that Ambassador Sunland is on the phone with people. Sitting around by the way with the Russians ends in Ukrainians also listening in. Don't don't forget that shows just how inexperienced this guy is. And he's way over his head maybe he was even showing off. He maybe wants these people to see that he's talking to the president of the United States but that the Ukrainians knew that this was not a good thing to have note takers in just underscores that they knew this was a drug deal. As Ambassador Bolton called it they were trying to keep it under wraps sandline did exactly the opposite our big three starting us off tonight Jeremy Bash Melanie's Lanese anoma and Mike mcfaul our thanks to all three of you for joining us at the end of a long week coming up for us a ruling that couldn't have come at a more precarious. It's time for the president. His friend of many decades that man tonight is a convicted felon guilty on all counts and later on this consequential night hi to presidential historians on standby for us to talk about just what it is the history that we are watching the eleventh hour just getting started on this Friday Friday night hey msnbc listeners. It's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta WTA Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico on a day to day basis Canada and Mexico affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere anywhere else in the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent her professional life in service to the United States. In her case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation peration of the US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large and vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world old and bringing the world back to America. Please join me for that conversation with. Roberta Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on. MSNBC's the oath available now. Wherever you get your podcasts? I will not guilty guilty to these charges. I will defeat them in. There is no circumstance whatsoever under which I will bear. False is witness against the president. Nor will I make up lies to ease the pressure on myself tonight. Roger Stone that man is is a convicted felon a jury found him guilty on all seven counts including witness tampering and making false statements to Congress. Prosecutors argued stone obstructed a congressional investigation into Russian election interference because the truth would have looked bad for the president stone is now six trump associated who's either pleaded guilty or bent convicted victims and connection to the mother Russia investigation. The list includes trump's former campaign chairman. Paul Manafort is former personal lawyer. Michael Cohen both gentlemen spending spending another Friday night in prison. Let's not forget the president's former National Security Advisor Mike. Flynn here with US tonight to talk about it. Barbara mcquade veteran federal prosecutor cuter former. US Attorney for the Eastern District of the State of Michigan. Barb how significant was the verdict. Today I think today's verdict was really important. Important to just make sure the world knows that truth still matters at one point Roger Stone himself said that these lies don't matter and yeah I think with this verdict seven counts out of seven counts unanimous jury verdict in just a few hours of deliberation sends a clear message. That truth really does matter after. I also think that it could have an impact on other witnesses who are testifying in the impeachment proceedings who are watching and who see that there is consequence for telling lies we all because we're journalists say. We use the same phraseology barring appeal pending appeal. What is the real life likelihood the hood that this conviction is somehow overturned well? I think it's unlikely I didn't watch every minute of the trial. I was not in the courtroom. And so sometimes there are evidentiary had injury problems. Jury instruction problems that could result in a reversal on appeal. But I have not seen any reporting of anything that would suggest to me. That there was a reversible error. The evidence seems strongly other basis for a reversal. Is that The the evidence was not sufficient for a rational trier of fact to to a found guilt. The way they did. In this instance there was strong evidence and obviously the jury returned its verdict unanimously. So I think an appeal. You'll is unlikely. I think what what could be more likely as a pardon but we'll have to see how that shakes out. Yeah I was GonNa ask you about that. What would a pardon say about our system of justice after what we've just been through what we continue to go through a pardon would be really awful awful thing for the rule of law in the United States it would say that loyalty to the president matters more than fidelity to the rule of law? As you know sometimes people are forgiven that as the purpose of a pardon to say we are showing you mercy because you have shown remorse today. I've seen no remorse from Roger Stone. He says is that he won't lie for the President now that he's been convicted if his story should change maybe that changes that scenario but he continues to tell the story that he is being persecuted suited as opposed to prosecuted for his crimes. We note the witness intimidation is one of the charges. They nickname on today. Could you make an argument. That that's what the president engaged aged in in the open today. Yes I think it very much looked like witness intimidation and in fact Ambassador Ianovich said that she felt intimidated by that statement. As she's testifying he begins to smear her and her career. What can that look like other than an attack to try to chill her testimony Simoni and even if it did not stop her because she had the courage to continue? Does it send a message to everyone else out there who may be watching and may say I'm not going to stick my neck out and put myself through that same kind of abuse that she is suffering and so it is a crime to intimidate a witness to try to influence their testimony testimony by intimidating them or threatening them. And it's certainly an abuse of power that I also think shows a consciousness of guilt and a desperation by the president final question Austrian as we keep saying Ambassador Sonnemans got a whole lot of explaining to do. Can he take the fifth or can. He tried to get an immunity deal. He could do both. He could take the fifth than just refuse to answer any question that might incriminate him. If I were his lawyer I would be having a very serious conversation about that right now. He could also get an immunity deal. I don't know that Congress would want to give that because that would mean that it could also immunize him as to any criminal proceeding that might Follow these these hearings but if they believe that it is worth it to get the information that they need about president trump. That is something that Adam Schiff has has on the table for him to use. This is what he gets for. Having written a million dollar. Check to the inauguration Barbara mcquade. It's always a pleasure to have you on. Thank you thank you. Brian coming up for us. The target of a powerful smear campaign has her say we will show you an important portion of her testimony when we come back The ambassador I knew nothing about until my name. And your name came up in the audition hearings that nobody saw and what it comes down to us. She didn't like the you reported on the fact that the prosecutor general all and if my understanding is correct that would be the equivalent of our attorney. General had says handed her a list of people not to prosecute now saying that. He's he has recanted did that. You're saying no. He is not part of the coverage One of the more powerful portions of former Ukraine ambassador. Marie Ivanovich pitches testimony was when she talked today about the smear campaign. She says was carried out against her by certain media outlets Egged on by Rudy Giuliani and his associates. This morning Ivanovich listed the accusations against her picking them. Apart point by point I want to reiterate I that the allegation that I disseminated a do not prosecute list was a fabrication Mr Sanca. The former Ukrainian prosecutor general who made that allegation has acknowledged that the list never existed. Also untrue are unsourced allegations that that I told unidentified embassy employees or Ukrainian officials that president. Trump's order should be ignored because he was going to be impeached or for any the reason I did not and I would not say such a thing. Such statements would be inconsistent with my training as a Foreign Service officer in my role as an ambassador asser. The Obama Administration did not ask me to help the the Clinton campaign or harm the trump campaign nor Norwood I've taken any such steps if they had partisanship of. This type is not compatible with the role of a career foreign service officer officer. I have never met Hunter Biden nor have I had any direct or indirect conversations with him and although I have met former Vice President Biden several times over the course of our many years in government service neither he nor the previous administration ever raise the issue of if either Barista or Hunter Biden with me with respect to Mayor Giuliani. I have had only minimal contact with him. A total of three non related related to the events at issue. I do not understand Mr Giuliani's motives for attacking me nor can I offer an opinion on whether he believed the allegations he spread. What about me clearly? No one at the State Department did what I can say is that Mr Giuliani should have known. Those claims were suspect coming as they reportedly did from individuals with questionable motives and with reason to believe that their political and financial ambitions would be stymied by. They are anti corruption policy. In Ukraine A thirty-three year veteran of the foreign service in her own words. Today coming up after this next break one of our next guess has written about how this president always seems to side with the wise guys instead of wise men to presidential experts. Are here talk about that when we come back. Rudy Giuliani Juliette. He's a fine man. He was the greatest mayor the history of New York and he's been one of the greatest crimefighters corrupted fighters Rudy Giuliani's. Good man it Roger Stone's somebody I've always liked rogers character but roger was no. I don't know if you know this. And that Roger wasn't on my campaign except way at the beginning there's a new OP ED in the Washington Post examining the president's preference for quote wise guys over the so-called wise men. It's a reference to one of the best works of nonfiction of its era that no respectable bookshelves should be without the wiseman written by Walter Isaacson and Evan Thomas about the foreign policy establishment published back in Nineteen eighty-six with us this evening Jon meacham one of the CO authors of the Washington Post article and a Pulitzer Prize winning author and presidential residential historian among his works the timely new book impeachment and American history and Joanne Freeman history professor at Yale University Co host of the backstory. Ori Podcast on American history. She was last in the studio to talk about her book. The field of blood violence and Congress and the road to civil war. Good evening and welcome to you both and John. I want to start you off by playing for all of us. A clip from today's hearings will talk about it on the other side. You you previously testified that you sought advice from ambassador of Ceylon at this time about what to do that. Correct I did. What was his advice advice? Well he suggested that I needed to go big or go home and he said that uh the best thing to do would be to You send out a tweet. Praise the president that sort of thing my reaction always that. I'm sure he meant well. But it was not advice that I could really follow. It felt it felt partisan Senate felt political. John if in fact a tweet has become the new kind of electronic loyalty oaths. Have we ever seen what what is in effect. A cult of personality around the highest office in the land in Thomas. Jefferson was ministered France. He was not tweeting about The president of the Confederation Congress so so no averill. Harriman didn't do this. Franklin Roosevelt from from Moscow which she was the ambassador was being polite there she said it seemed political. It seems authoritarian is what it seems. Is that somehow another a demonstration of personal loyalty to a political agenda from career Foreign Service Officer Should somehow be part of her or his job is outside the bounds of of what we've understood our diplomacy to be nobody's being sentimental Or naive about the nature of foreign policy foreign policy has its political instincts. One of Jim Bakker's on the great secretaries of state in American history. Used to say if you don't understand the politics of the nation you're dealing with. You can't be effective active diplomat. You can't have an effective for policy. That's a very different thing than asking for personal oaths almost a test of from from that sense in that sense. And when things that Evan Walter now we're trying to say in this piece is it. Wasn't that long ago that you had a core the people who are not always right self-evidently but who did in fact have a feel to not to a particular president to a set of ideas Adia to the constitution to the notion that we should project freedom as opposed to Catering tyranny I during the Second World War and then during during the Cold War and that's the kind of thing you want in people who are conducting foreign policy. You want people who are pursuing a national interest not the deep particular interests of a given president so professor what has traditionally happened over the course of history one presidents bump into government in the wrong way does government give or do the institutions usually hoped. Well the way you ask the question has part of the answer. Her which is of course the president and Congress and Surpreme Court our government. So it's not so much. The president banging up against government its branches of government hopefully banging up against each other and holding firm out and the institutions of government really operating in the way that they're supposed to I mean mean power the constitution about balancing power and each branch of government obviously has a substantial amount of power. What we're looking at now is a real test assed of those checks and balances and really seeing what happens when one branch of the government or in this case when a president really is? I don't know if I would say you just pushing but really smacking against an trying to brush aside some of those checks and balances let me bring another example from today's coverage if if Roger Stone ends up with a pardon having been nicked on all seven counts what will that say about an institution. Our our rule all of law. Well it certainly is not a pleasant smile at the rule of law. I mean the thing about the rule of law is obviously the idea that no one one is above the laws pretty fundamental to American society. But the thing about the rule of law is it requires people who are willing to support it and work for sort and so that kind of decision I mean. Will it topple the rule of law in and of itself. No well it be sign that potentially someone one is really not abiding by the rule of law to the degree that one might. Ideally hope the president would perhaps to learned. People have agreed to stay over one break with us. We'll do just that coming up more on the significance of what we witnessed today and the Democrats have convened us once again to advance their operation to topple apple a duly elected President Devin Nunez from a portion of today's hearing still with us. Tonight Jon Meacham and Professor Joanne Freeman. I'm John I think it's Dorothy who says to the wizard and the wizard of Oz. I don't imagine there's anything in your bag for me and I'll I'll frame this similarly alertly for you. You being the wizard if I told you that six officials close to this president has gone down in the first three years of a presidency for either convictions or admitting to crimes including lying to the feds. Is there anything in in your bag of historical knowledge that would compare to what we've witnessed relational asking me. If I have a brain rain so I feel that at least we we were making progress. Progress there tonight Ah Sure I'll be. Well I mean you go to Watergate where the Attorney General. The United States serving as the president's guy chairman reelection chairman went to prison Forgotten the exact number of all the Watergate folks but it was a significant. It number of people went to jail over Iran Contra but we're the analogies only go so far are here What is at play right? Now is the question of whether the sovereignty of our national elections who was violated in such a way that not only is the two thousand sixteen election forever contaminated in history because of the the Russian involvement but it was it seemed to be so effective in some ways that the president is states. Wanted to replicate it He wanted a sequel. And I think that's part of what sometimes gets lost in this narrative is the president was in part of an unfolding plot right here. This is not entirely retrospective. It was about twenty twenty. It was about his Putative opponent coming up and in Johann was talking about divided sovereignty which is one of the two great insights. I'd argue and I'll defer to my colleague from Yale but to be a great meal This but two of the great insights of the American Revolution were a reason headed taken stand against passion but the other came from the idea of divided sovereignty that that three forms of government in the world had always been monarchy aristocracy or democracy and part of what the Americans did in the seventeen seventy s and seventeen seventeen eighty s which tried to mix those together to create something new something that was genuinely new under the Sun and without the the respect for the each divisions each sovereign divisions respect for each other. Then it all begins to collapse and and I think the Roger Stone News is actually a pretty good sign for the rule of law today for Democracy today it means that the institutions the courts are doing their job. The question now is will congress. Do its job. Professor last word should impeachment be considered the overturning of an election. No it should not when I talked to my students about this one of the things I tell them is impeachment is brought to you by the same people that designed the electoral Israel process. It is not overturning election. It is a tool to be used when a president does something that seemingly is serious enough that you shouldn't wait. You can't wait to another election that you need to actually have an investigation. So I've heard some say it's unconstitutional. which is a little wacky whacky? Considering that it's in the constitution neither is it overturning. An election it really is a tool to use in the place of waiting for an election. It is a way to investigate it as a process and if nothing else the founders and creating the constitution were putting processes in motion that we could turn to during during times of crisis. That would help us find our way out of them. And that's the moment that we're in now. This is what happens when you invite smart people over Jon. meacham Joanne Freeman are thanks. It's coming up another indelible moment from today last thing before we go tonight. Let's talk about the idea of service serving someone else serving a cause greater than yourself else. If you're a veteran active duty government employees first responder caregiver than you know what I mean and this week we saw three shining examples of service I have served proudly as a nonpartisan career Foreign Service Officer for more than twenty seven years. It has been a privilege for me to serve serve our country and the American people for more than fifty years. I come before you as an American citizen who has devoted the majority of my life thirty three years yes to service to the country that all of us love indeed right there. If you watched today's testimony you heard what service means to a career foreign foreign service officer. We are people who repeatedly uproot our lives who risk and sometimes give our lives for this country. This this is about four far far more than me or a couple of individuals as foreign service professionals are being denigrated and undermined. The institution is also being degraded. This will soon cause real harm. If it hasn't already that part right there was too much for our own Chuck Rosenberg. Chuck has taken the oath more than once as a US attorney at the Department of Justice at the FBI and so he took it personally today. While on the air with Nicole Wallace. Is that ambassador IANOVICH. Who was trolled an attack today by her commander in chief has received no air support from her boss? The Secretary of State. Let me say something about that Nicole because this makes me very very angry secretary of state. Is Mike Pompeo like any leader. I think he has three obligations Gatien's first to the public the American people Second to the mission of his agency and the third and just as important to the men and women who serve in that the agency has silence is deafening it is an act of abject cowardice. I am astonished that somebody who went to West Point and was an army officer Sir does not have the spine to stand up for the people in his organization who are being denigrated by this president that silence as I said is deafening opening and it is disgusting isn't just more than weakness. Oh does it suggest that he's a complicit actor in this dark off you know. Complicity will be determined down the road road as we adduce more facts. I know what I see what I see from. Him is a complete failure of leadership. I doubt he's watching this show and I doubt he was listening to me but if he was coward Chuck Rosenberg Talking About Mike. pompeo who famously graduated first in his class from the US military academy West Point in Nineteen eighty-six. That is our broadcast for this Friday night. And for this eventful week thank you so very much much for being here with us. Have a good weekend and good night from. NBC News Headquarters here. Neil aw hey NBC listeners. It's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta Jacobson. The former United States ambassador sitter to Mexico on a day to day basis candidate in Mexico affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere else in the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent bent her professional life in service to the United States. In her case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation of the US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world and bringing the world back to America America. Please join me for that conversation with. Roberta Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on M._S._N._B._C.'s. The oath available now wherever you get your podcasts.

president President Trump United States Mayor Giuliani Roger Stone Ukraine Congress Russia President Ambassador Sunland ambassador Sunlen Hunter Biden State Department President Maria von Avik Ambassador Sunland embassador Ivanovich Ambassador Assan United States ambassador to Me Moscow
Ukraine Controversy; Pres. Trump: "I Don't Know" If Giuliani Is Still My Attorney; Giuliani's Indicted Associates; "Tough Love"

Anderson Cooper 360

42:11 min | 10 months ago

Ukraine Controversy; Pres. Trump: "I Don't Know" If Giuliani Is Still My Attorney; Giuliani's Indicted Associates; "Tough Love"

"Asked hosted by former this American Life Contributor Chris Higgins that keeps you up to date on the entire horse race every day in fifteen minutes at five PM subscribed to the election ride home the next presidential debate is on Tuesday. Are you caught up with the candidates and the issues if you're not you need to subscribe to the election ride home a daily podcast heard from Republicans and Democrats top Democrats and Republicans on the committee leaving this room after that marathon sessions and their reaction predictably not surprisingly members of Congress who heard her testimony today did they hear the same think not at all and that is typical for these sorts of things we just today in her testimony Marie Ivanovich said that the president appeared quote very familiar with her and her work in Ukraine she testified that the deputy secretary of state who recalled her actually president trump speaking to the president of Ukraine speaking unfavourably of her on the now infamous July phone call which would indicate he does know her or of her says he she deserved better than the shabby treatment she received from the President and Secretary of State and thanked her for actually coming forward today notably shift as so just you know facts matter that's actually not true what he just said it wasn't the president of Ukraine who was saying negative things about the ambassador a phone call I had with the President the new president he didn't speak favorably but I I just don't know her she may be a wonderful woman foreign service she may be a wonderful woman I don't know her but she she may be very much a wonderful woman if you remember that President Trump today seemed to be distancing himself from some key actors in the UK in Ukraine controversy the latest the former ambassador to Ukraine who testified today of a State Department earlier this year said the president quote lost confidence in me and quote she also said this quote he added that there had been a concerted campaign against me and that the department a coordinated strategy to smear campaign if you will to lead to her removal from the post and sources telling CNN's night that she said that at the time unquote attacked and hollowed out on quote by Politics Masters diplomacy the president today said he did not know this three time embassador who spent thirty three years in the almost ten hours of testimony what are you learning about the ambassadors deposition particularly what she told the committee about Rudy Rudy Giuliani again this is behind closed doors char- what she believes the role of Rudy Giuliani was the extent of his role how she he according to her essentially coordinated this well James by people she says with clearly questionable motives of course a reference there to Rudy Giuliani what are you hearing from Democratic and Republican that it was only until now in the context of all that has been revealed over the last few weeks does she understand some of the context and essentially the extent of purpose and some powerful words I think mostly in the opening statement that were obtained tonight from the New York Times about why she felt that this was significant essentially putting the pieces together you're talking about the elements of her very abrupt dismissal earlier this year because of this smear campaign she was she said it was made up of unfounded and false claim and had been under pressure from the president to remove me since the summer of two thousand and eighteen more today's testimony I want to bring in Sunlen serfaty on Capitol Hill so after on wall she was in Ukraine she had heard from UK recruiting officials that Giuliani was going around trashing her saying bad things about her making things up about her fell into partisan camps the top Democrat on the Intel Committee Adam Schiff the chairman of that committee praise saying she's a model diplomat he new information is hard to get that's right Anderson and from what we do know of her deposition depositions to really painted today for the lawmakers fuller has been doing recently did not take questions from reporters tonight in of which there are many Republicans coming in that room tonight Anderson really attack the process s we heard from many Republicans saying that should have been an open testimony saying that they themselves did not think that they've learned anything that was classified so why should the be held behind closed doors so certainly both sides hearing in seeing what they wanted to see and likely that will certainly that sort of pattern opposition's for next week and even tonight the chairman of the Committee Adam Schiff saying that they are moving with a new sense of urgency that they're making progress and he promised potential fool authorization vote in and how soon do Democrats expert to get through upcoming witnesses yeah certainly they have quite the schedule jam packed schedule of witnesses and we'll head into next week when we'll hear many more depositions in the outcome of those depositions up here on Capitol Hill I in terms of the impeachment inquiry has there been any movement in terms of the Republicans and president trump of course himself have been calling for this full vote on the House floor to authorize the impeachment inquiry that is something that more depositions coming up that we don't know about more subpoenas coming up that we at this point don't know about so they're clearly pushing ahead it comes as you rightfully point Shen it will be most notable on early next week when everyone is back on Capitol Hill after this two week recess where House Democrats will convene in their weekly against her according to her testimony well first of all she's an extraordinary woman obviously skilled as a diplomat but obviously very a very courageous willing to speak to power and not be put down by the president but rather to carry out her constitutional and her oath of office that is finding mission to Ukraine where he and other members of Congress met with leaders as well as the top diplomat in Ukraine. Bill Taylor who's being asked to testify before Congressman Before Conference Meeting Caucus meeting we will see if this small group of Democrats who are saying we should go ahead and author of this in the full House for floor we'll see more important I do WanNa ask you about the ambassadors testimony. I'm wondering what you make what we have learned so far there was allegedly this quote concerted campaign is to obey the constitution and to come forward with whatever information she has with regard to hear testimony the deposition processes one of gathering data congressman. Thanks so much for being with US appreciate it good good to be with you I I wanna get to your trip in Ukraine in just a moment because the timing of it cannot be more that has any sway with the leaders of the Democrats Anderson so survey thanks very much appreciate it congressman John Gherman joins us now he just got back from a fact was pushing forward aggressive anti-corruption program in Ukraine and ran afoul of theoretically and information there will undoubtedly be hearings perhaps she'll be coming back but this is a process that's extremely important understanding the the details the AH the speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is still far has been hesitant to do. She said she doesn't think it's necessary she has not ruled it out but she doesn't think she has too because of the constitution timelines the various events that went on no doubt about Giuliani was out there playing games not only perhaps his own pocket and for the pocket of the two Dan put in place and Inspector General beyond that we also when we met just outside the Ministry of Defence obbassador probably in the deposition is probably there and they'll be further information I think sudden winds coming in next week this is all part of the unraveling of corrupt or shady officials there well that's exactly right when we met with the officials the Minister of Defence who actually been in office just two weeks absolutely essential military equipment hardware supplies as well as the trainers they go with it yeah civil servants are standing up they are the congratulated him for speaking the truth that what is the trump administration up to trying to play games with the four hundred million dollars of Taylor was there to greet us at the very moment that our smartphones were saying his tweet message was there climbed off the bus a. and the foreign minister their principal goal was to root out corruption to get rid of the corruption even so much so that we spent a lot of time talking about how the military always on the same line standing up power calling it as it is and saying something terribly wrong here so let's hear it for the Civil Sir early on a was the pointy end of the spear of an anti-corruption drive in Ukraine is just ludicrous particularly when you learn that the ambassador herself was there was just indicted but also to lay out a investigation for against Biden all of that is is to ambassador Sunland from the e U saying I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign and then there was a five hour gap and events out there that trump has spent most of his career tried to dump yet I mean you just mentioned Bill Taylor he's the senior diplomat to Ukraine he wrote that text message keep in mind that there is a cover up going on in the White House the text the message that we heard the transcript which was not complete and the tapes you think that there is a recording the conversation do you think there is a more full transcript somewhere well what happened during the Nixon period his own words and we're gonNA find out I want you to do a favor though yeah there you have it. Trump's broke the law no trump yet for the president to be claiming that his conversation with the president of Ukraine was really all about fighting corruption in Ukraine and Rudy Classic. CYA memo that goes out yeah go yeah some lawyers said Oh my God we got a problem here indeed they do but also go with it went into the deep vault not to be seen by anybody ever again well I got news for the president we're GonNa see what was in that vault we're gonNA find out exactly what it said remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN this is David Pain the writer and host of somebody then the the bachelor sunland who's going to testify next week suddenly said kind of read out a statement essentially it sounded like coming straight from Donald Trump well that's what we call the wear a true crime investigative podcast if you're looking for a podcast that does serious boots on the ground investigation into cold case air to serve the American public the American constitution our system of government and we see two examples right there in this put the whistle blowers to whistle blower see see how that goes also is Rudy Giuliani still president trump's attorney discuss whether he's become too much of a liability for the President and then has a real world impact on them look no further somebody somewhere season one investigation of the murder of federal prosecutor has led to the you're the Ukrainians have a recording although I'm sure that they don't want to release it he just got a feel for this president a new guy comes in seventy five percent vote has said as a supermajority his own parliament and then tump trump comes in and lays the heavy hit on him saying play with me or out very first arrest in this case after eighteen years please listen and subscribe to somebody somewhere seasons one and two wherever you get your podcast Guiliani Guiliani still works for the president but won't deal with Ukraine matters this comes after two associates Giuliani's who's worked with him on matters involving Ukraine were else and and he just has no place to go this president is strong he wants to do right by his country he's fighting a major battle with the UH except for that What eighteen minutes disappeared there was a recording I'm sure there's a recording of it if not in the White House says recording somewhere and for Russians fourteen thousand Ukrainians have been killed in that fight and trump is out just to feathers on this to try to win an election it is just outrageous lassiter's Ukraine who was recalled by president trump who's career was destroyed by president trump testified about among other things Giuliani and his associates according to Washington Post she said that the two men quote may well have believed that their personal financial ambitions were stymied by our anti-corruption policy in Ukraine and quote to veterans Multiple multiple breaking news stories. We're reporting tonight a source tells CNN that president trump is distancing himself from his personal attorney Rudy and journalists. Carl Bernstein Carl let's talk about the ambassadors testimony how problematic do you think it could be for the White House and the potential testimony next week with the opposition candidate facing the president of the United States we've never had a situation where a foreign power has been called upon by the president of the answer who heard that conversation with the president of Ukraine Bolton is in a position and he apparently scurried and so whose who really in a position to do the president great damage because they're telling the truth about what looks like a conspiracy a conspiracy yeah he's he's made a number of bizarre statements recently it's business about his Large with campaign finance violations separately sources say investigators are probing Giuliani's financial dealings with these two men the news comes the same day that the former us acumen his brilliance is unmatched ability to tell what the UH of ambassador Sunland who is a supporter of the president's very consequential and I think we already know that and there's a whole series of witnesses had a crook speech all of this is is very reminiscent I think the the most disturbing thing is Carlos United States as it appears from his own words trump's own words that we've seen he did this and now it's up to other witnesses to fill in more information Watergate investigation joining us now former Watergate special prosecutor Richard Benveniste of former prosecutor in the southern district of New York would charge Rudy Giuliani's to associates and CNN political analyst in and that's what we indeed saw the ambassador do today and we have many others coming and also the whole question of John Bolton the President's national security adviser a new how damaging that conversation was an all gets back to what the ambassador was also testifying about today so there's a circle that is closing in information and hides access to witnesses and and testimony and Dr Information from the public and it with Nixon's case we know why the information was damning Cor Carl Wondering Z. where the investigation is so far I mean the president today not even saying or couldn't say whether Rudy Giuliani was still his lawyer or not he said I don't know an evidentiary circle it's very damaging to the president of the United States and today that circle got tighter yet Richard I'm wondering where where you you know people use their God given commonsense and everyday experience when someone lies to them when someone refuses to give elving president of the United States to undermine our very basis of free elections in in this country by engaging a foreign power to interfere mentioned this is the inability to accept the normative precepts of our cars this repeatedly to accept and I think the focus group from Wisconsin was very telling in the way they analyze this the Turks are going to do and whether they're going to cross a line all of this stuff is reminiscent of when Nixon was under such pressure the IM nine and how much of any impeachment inquiry is dictated by public sentiment because you know you have pointed out in the past that with Watergate it was finally when Republicans this year committee which voted articles of impeachment against the president of the United States they were moved by patriotism and they were moved by a real sense the responsibility such as we have not seen from Republicans during the trump presidency however I know enough from talking to Republicans turned and you know you know went to the president and kind of explain the the reality of the situation he was fade is facing thank you very much Mike next I'll talk to two veterans of the Watergate investigation about how president trump appears to be distancing himself now from key figures in the Ukraine contracts reporters do to know that something shifting among Republicans right now on Capitol Hill they are losing confidence in this president they are losing confidence you guys are joined in the hip in what looks very much like an easy slam dunk almost ability to say unhinged as we have in these weeks watching Rudy Giuliani and the president who are joined at the hip whatever the president of the United States says these the law is that there is no right to remain silent at a time when our constitution is being trashed and in his ability to think straight to act straight to conduct the presidency in a manner the owns they ha they asked the question as we did when Nixon was president why is he going to such lengths to keep this in rational oversight of the executive is fundamental and we can't lose that if we lose that we lose the essence our constitution we don't have an organized religion that's official in this country what we have is a constitution that in trash because the fundamental precepts of our separation of power of adhering to What's happened here yeah I mean yeah human being's lives are are at stake this is yours exactly Iraq war the fighting Yeah Congressman John Government really appreciate it relation with with Turkey and Isis also plays into this that the confidence factor in the president of the United States seeing him on that conclusion I think motivating um we're all in our seventies now we've all had careers uh conspiracy and those two are tied to it and there's more witnesses coming many more witnesses in the coming days and there's going to be an expense it is that is it public sentiment that turned I though that that motivated those Republicans to well I think the Republicans were motivated those who were on the House of our democracy and everything else will slip I think as trained lawyers and there are many many throughout this country who understand home to catch up now before the debate the election ride home podcast and good evening thanks for joining us I'm Anderson Cooper in for Chris Cuomo everyone must abide by Richard Benveniste appreciate it Carl Bernstein as well we've got a lot more to learn about Rudy Giuliani's involvement with those two men now under arrest on campaign to to the government and and and the balance of power between Congress and the executive branch which the president refuses they need to see to have any measure of confidence in the President of the United States and there there really is some deterioration going on in Turkey the city mansion of this inquiry as well Richard Union at sixteen other former water Watergate special prosecutors calling for the president's impeachment I'm wondering what led you to see finance charges right back with a deeper dive into their ties next cats the host of March madness three sixty five and latest edition podcast I was joined by Michigan's Davidson teams one whole click all fifteen was hanging off the court You may see me with somebody needs to me another teammate no absolutely not I mean Giuliani's being in the middle of this from the beginning has been the absolute worst fact one of the worst facts for the president he obviously exercised galactically bad judgment in his dealings in the Ukraine and now we see that he was with the president and direct contact with people who were terrible at won't deal with Ukraine matters. I'm not even sure that means because I mean Rudy Giuliani suddenly going silent on Ukraine I don't know it seems unlikely and two counts of conspiracy including funneling foreign money into a US election in efforts to gain influence with politicians the two men made a three hundred political interests of at least one Ukrainian government official with whom they were working federal prosecutors say the two men also pressured a congressman to help oust former us on time so I think it's because obviously this is making trouble for the president you have the president even not direct- indirectly answering whether or not he's actually special agent and author of the Really Interesting New Book Crossfire Hurricane inside don't trump's war on the FBI the idea that Rudy Giuliani now Ivanovic already fired who the indictment states from an honest one out of her job by request of Ukrainian official Basseterre to Ukraine Marie Ivanovich from her position House Democrats sending from an parnes subpoenas for documents related to their impeachment inquiry wanting to understand how in trying to break campaign finance laws and so he's put the president in harm's way you can't have your personal attorney putting you in harm's way and so things it's time for the president issues for the president to associates of Giuliani's were arrested more now from our Jessica Schneider they once smiled and photos with president trump this is the home of the two thousand Nineteen National League postseason this October breaking news sources rudy. Giuliani is no longer dealing with Ukraine from an honest worked with Giuliani to find dirt on Biden as disgust and President Trump's July twenty fifth phone call with Ukrainian president where trump mentioned flies this investigation is about corrupt behavior deliberate lawbreaking from an S. or charged with making false statements falsifying records working for the president team more sort of referring to it in the past tense so this was suggests to me that they're that they're recognizing that there's a problem with connections MLB postseason one pitch struck or one swing of the back and turned ties of October TB right well this seems to be an area that he's very interested in and obviously has his tentacles all over the place as it relates to Ukrainian issues and actually has four twenty five thousand dollars donation to a pro-trump SUPERPAC the indictment alleging from and parnassus sought to advance their personal financial interests and the and even dined with his son Don Jr. I don't know those gentlemen showers possible I have a picture with them because I have a picture with everybody and now two of Giuliani's who've Rudy on route he's got his own issues to deal with any needs to have a core of lawyers around him who are competent can help him navigate this just like when he brought in Emmet flood for instance back during the mold investigation that Ukraine and a minimum he needs to step back away from that Scott should the president still consider Rudy Giuliani his personal attorney given all that's going about with them the other day of the trump hotel in Washington just hours before they tried to leave the country on one way plane tickets this investigation is about corrupt behavior deliberate lawbreaking those are my words is the words of the head FBI agent New York after these charges were announced and your question yeah there's a lot we want to know about rudy was bringing in and outside competent attorney I would highly advise the White House to ditch rudy and get somebody like that this time around Josh. CNN's reported the Giuliani's financial dealings rations if you know the White House is going to Throw up obstacles to having Giuliani actually testify yeah I mean they they need to have him testify and the salutes his associates and if it turns out that an investigating these two they find evidence about Rudy Giuliani trying to interfere to US election vis-a-vis a foreign government that should worry him a lot the US elections or to at least you know go after and get the assistance from politicians we also know there's associates a Rudy Giuliani and we know that Giuliani has been involved in this effort to investigate Yuliana connections with these two there's a lot we don't know let's look at what we do know we know that these men were charged and accused of laundering money from a foreign government in order to try to interfere in a political opponent of the president. Now there's through line right there you know with all that information as of yet but if you're Rudy Giuliani that shouldn't give you comfort because what I as I look at the facts is she was pushing back against this idea of pressuring the Ukrainian government into investigating Joe Biden and his son will who else wants that to happen Donald you know from the get go but they were also involved in this campaign to get the ambassador US ambassador to Ukraine fired right and that and the reason for that is because of this case I kind of consider these to Paul Manafort's of the Ukraine scandal we know when the Russia investigation Paul Manafort wasn't directly involved in the Russian collusion but he got ensnared around the world and picking up consulting contracts along the way so I I don't think those are illegitimate issues to bring up but in the context in which the president did it I think it was gallivanting around Eastern Europe is a terrible idea he's obviously exercised poor judgment he's put the president in harm's way so that that's bad I do think the Biden one hundred Biden issues are the fundamental accusation that's been made against Biden has been utterly debunked I mean you had a bipartisan group of senators having the exact same position that Joe Biden had Kirsten do you see any scenario under which house investigators don't exhaust all options to try to get Giuliani to testify about what he knows obviously there are time consuming it how how concerning is as I said I think yeah I think I think having Giuliani and unelected unappointed sort of ambassador at large and all these other corrupt acts the reason should Rudy Giuliani right now is because when the FBI investigates corruption they do what they call circling the target you want to know everything about a subject that in regarding getting this prosecutor fired for not prosecuting it's the opposite of what Donald Trump has been saying happened so I mean you can complain about his son being over there oh I think any any rational person would look at the fact of hundred Biden's work there even if they didn't break any laws it was also colossally bad judgment for the Biden's to have him following his trump so that's that's the thing that I that sort of missing it's like I don't I don't know that Giuliani was necessarily freelancing right this this is something that's consistent there's a lot more information that we need to get about this and I think absolutely do everything you can to get really Giuliani under oath we haven't talked really since All of this started and with those two jailed associates now who have been indicted on campaign finance related charges are indiscriminate by investigators would you want to know what Giuliani obviously was talking so I how do you see this now I mean the transcript what we now know is it yeah I'm just wondering what your take is on went with a transcript that we have a conversation that the president had with the president of the Ukraine asking him to do the same thing so there's a lot of information that the thing about this is is that I mean the the these two men were doing various things and obviously tried to flee the country I mean it's it's very suspicious behavior hey this is matt and connor from stick to football and football is back college NFL NFL draft. We have you covered those in Jessica Schneider reporting for more we're joined by Scott Jennings former special assistant to prison George W Bush USA Today columnist powers and Josh Campbell former FBI supervisor by hurricane it's a fascinating read inside trump's war on the FBI coming next form diplomat on the the ambassador Ukraine who testified today it is fair political game there have been reports that appeared on this network Kirsten that said the exact same thing so this has not been debunked it did happen and it's fair political debate bad judgement now is that impeachable I don't personally think so I think the house is last best offramp Pelosi to try to do it with her base wants to do so they're going to try to make it stick I don't personally we think all bad judgment has to be impeachable but yeah there's some bad facts here Giuliani appears to me to be at the middle of it all so the fast of the President severs that relationship I think the it's either from an and left parties who helped trump's personal attorneys seek information about former vice president Joe Biden in Ukraine have been indicted for Breaking Campaign Finance Ivanovich is character and capabilities someone who held the job before her former ambassador to Ukraine himself John Herbst Bester herbst president trump spoke again late today about Ambassador Ianovich saying that she may be a wonderful woman but he doesn't know her which is odd because you know he previously described from the phone with the monumental accusation about Joe Biden trying to interfere in somehow protect his son it's just false there is no evidence tried to interfere to protect his son President Ukraine as quote bad news what's your reaction to to to what the president has said and done to the ambassador circumstances and there was no basis to any claims against have you heard any legitimate explanation so far about why the president for that matter Rudy Giuliani would want the ambassador out of Ukraine well we don't know for sure a and false claims by people with clearly questionable motives that was a quote that's according to a transcript from the New York Times and Washington Post we have someone who can speak to Maria connection good this every matt on beyond is we want to get back to markel testimony today from the former ambassador to Ukraine forced out by president trump based on what she calls unfounded the president would not be using Rudy Giuliani as his point man kind of skulking about talking to these Ukrainian officials I would assume that the the show on apple podcasts spotify stitcher or bleacher reports youtube channel every Monday Wednesday and Friday you wait for Champions League and you wrote the League I seems to be a fair amount to believe circumstantial evidence that they wanted full blown cooperation of the embassy to pursue the this unfounded vested offbeat said though about Biden though isn't really accurate I mean you you can complain about his son if you want but the action the United States has far greater levers to truly investigate ongoing corruption of which you know there must be you know some ongoing certainly of the things he said was Alinsky is pulling out of Ukraine early were dreadful things she did a terrific job in difficult concerned about corruption in Ukraine I keep coming back to the notion that if President Trump Guiliani were really concerned about corruption in Ukraine addition to former vice president and the fig leaf that they have been using the idea that they want the President Giuliani an embassy work if they don't really speak for the president the president has his own person conducting Execute the policy of the United States in Ukraine to have someone like Rudy Giuliani kind of freelancing at the president's behest with a direct line and asked about one hundred guidance is he qualified to be on that board there's no evidence though that it relates in anywhere Joe Biden Scott Appreciate Pearson Powers Josh Campbell Josh's book again is crossing in recent examples I'm sure the Treasury Department has departments on corruption that that the president could use Ukraine has had into the president doing things which are not necessarily and apparently have nothing to do with actually US national interests this of course is his own shadow I wouldn't even call it diplomacy his own shadow agenda in a country what does that do to the embassy trying to act which is Ross accuser general is exactly the wrong way to proceed what does it do for diplomats for Career Foreign Service officers who are trying to Winston Appearance Of the appearance of profiteering off of his father's vice presidency even if they didn't break any laws is still terrible judgment angering senior officials in the previous government including the former prosecutor general and so they want to get back at her can coming up more of my conversation with Susan Rice President Obama's former national security adviser here why she decided to call her book tough love dreadful leadership

President Trump Rudy Giuliani president Ukraine congressman Rudy attorney CNN White House Bill Taylor Biden Chris Higgins Rudy Classic United States ambassador Sunland CNN Nancy Pelosi Washington Post
State department aide overheard Trump checking on Ukraine scheme

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

45:56 min | 9 months ago

State department aide overheard Trump checking on Ukraine scheme

"The show we at nine eastern on. MSNBC thank you for joining us this hour on this Friday night I will tell you. There are a bunch of moving parts in the news right now and we're just going to take it one piece at a time. One step at a time with the full and full hearted expectation that more news will break over the course of this hour. You know it will. I mean that has generally been our experience on Friday nights over the course of the trump administration but today and tonight already it has just been relentless. So let's just jump in. We've got a whole show prepared. I'm sure it's all about to go out the window. Obviously obviously today was the second public hearing of the impeachment proceedings against President Trump. We're GONNA talk about that in detail tonight in terms of the latest news though I do. I need to mention that as soon as the public hearing wrapped up today with US ambassador. Marie Ivanovich immediately thereafter. The Impeachment Committee started taking a closed door deposition opposition from another new witness. The public airings like the ones we saw ambassador Ianovich today. Those are supposed to be the sort of second phase of the Impeachment Schmidt proceedings but apparently as more of the story is becoming known to the public and to the investigators and as more witnesses are coming forward. You you know. The impeach committees are having to sort of figure out what to do with new folks who are relevant to the investigation that they're still proceeding leading with so they're discovering new witnesses there then arranging testimony from these new witnesses and in order to do that. They're basically going back behind closed closed-doors to take initial closed-door depositions from these new witnesses before deciding whether they too will go on to be part of any public proceedings so he ovonic Donovan wrapped today at this public hearing but then immediately after that the impeachment committee the Intelligence Committee but also foreign affairs and oversight they went back behind closed stores at the Secure Conference Room at the Capitol to take a closed-door deposition from David holds now David Holmes is a career Foreign Service officer. We heard about him for the first time though not by name at the first public impeachment hearing that happened this week when ambassador Bill Taylor broke. This surprise is news last Friday. A member of my staff told me of events that occurred on July twenty six in the presence of my staff at a restaurant called president trump and told him of his meetings gave the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking combat leaders sunland about the investigations toll president trump the Ukrainians were ready to move forward. Following the call with President is it in trump that member of my staff ambassador. Solomon what president. Trump thought about Ukraine responded that president trump cares more about the investigations of Biden which Giuliani was pressing for at the time. I gave my deposition on October. Twenty second I was not aware of this information. And I'm including it here for completeness so we learn of that story just a couple of days ago and ambassador Bill Taylor's testimony at the first impeachment hearing right. It's kind of a dramatic. Reveal a member of his staff coming forward to tell him something. That ambassador didn't know about before which is that. There had been a phone call between president trump personally ambassador. Astor Gordon saw land. Who called the president from a restaurant in Ukraine on his cellphone on July twenty six the day after president trump had that call with the Ukrainian president that's the call that has basically led to these impeachment proceedings in that call on July twenty? Six Taylor's staff member says he was able to hear the president on that phone enquiring personally about those investigations that he was pressing Ukraine for. Well there's been a quick turnaround in terms of running that story to ground and so now today that staffer that was referenced and Bill Taylor's testimony two days ago. That staffer has now been brought to Capitol Hill and today he gave his closed door deposition and credit to CNN's excellent congressional correspondent Manu Raju. Who was first to obtain a copy of the opening statement that David Holmes gave in that closed door deposition? Today you can see it here. It's a obviously a photocopy of a folded sheet that contained his his opening statement Manu Raju attain the CNN. Posted it and it's a doozy. I will warn you. There's a couple of swears here eventually. I'm going to say the swear words but if you're disturbed by knowing they are you know they're coming. I let me read you. What David Home says is basically his explanation as to why he's coming forward at this late point point in the process? He says quote as the current impeachment inquiry has progressed. I have followed press reports and reviewed the statements of Ambassador Taylor and Ambassador Ianovich based on my experience. It's in Ukraine. My recollection is generally consistent with their testimony and I believe that the relevant facts were therefore being laid out for the American people however in the last week or so I read press reports reports expressing for the first time that certain senior officials may have been acting without the president's knowledge and they're dealing and suggesting that the only evidence being elicited visited the hearings was hearsay. I came to realize home says that I had firsthand. Knowledge regarding certain events on July twenty six that had otherwise is not been reported and that those events potentially bore on the question of whether the president in fact had knowledge that those officials were using the levers of our diplomatic power to induce due to the new Ukrainian president to announce the opening of a particular criminal investigation at that point that I made the observation to ambassador Taylor that the incident I I had witnessed had acquired greater significance which is what he reported in his testimony earlier this week. So that's why homes are saying. This is why I'm coming forward. I I realized that you know what I know. I thought it was just consistent with what you've already heard but then I realize I actually know something that other people don't and that other people are saying hang isn't the way this all went down. You need to know about this thing that I know now. As to the delight twenty six call the way built. Bill Taylor described it in his testimony. Today's ago I think actually sort of underplays it compared to what David Holmes is just described the impeachment committees today at least as far as his opening statement. But we've got that now and again what he's describing here in time. This is late July. July twenty fifth president trump makes that call to the Ukrainian president right. We've all seen the call notes. It's from that led to the impeachment inquiry the day after that a delegation of US officials including ambassador. Gordon Sunland the trump donor guy who was assigned assigned to be ambassador to the EU and the president inexplicably reassigned him to go work on Ukraine. Instead Ambassador Golden Gordon Donlan and this witness who testified today David Holmes. They went into a high level meeting with the Ukrainian government and crew including a meeting with President Zelinski. Just one day after President's Alinsky had that call with President trump trump and at that point home said he hadn't himself had a readout as to what had happened during the coal the previous day between trump and Dolinsky but he says Dolinsky Linski the following day at his meeting said that quote President Trump had three times raised some very sensitive issues and that he would have to follow up on those issues issues when they met in person. Home says quote not having received a readout of July twenty fifth call. I did not know what those sensitive issues were home says quote as I was leaving the meeting with presidents Alinsky. I was told to join another meeting with Ambassador Sunlen when that meeting ended. The two staffers accompanied Ambassador Sunland out of the presidential administration. The station building and into the embassy vehicle ambassador Sunland said he wanted to go to lunch. I told them Bassett or SAMBA. I'd be happy to join if he wanted to. Brief me on his meetings. Things are discuss other issues. Ambassador Sunland said I should join. The two. Staffers joined for lunches. Well the four of us went to a nearby restaurant and sat on an outdoor terrace. I I sat directly across from Basseterre Sunland and the two staffers set off to our sides. At first the lunch was largely social ambassador. Sunland selected a bottle of wine that he shared among the four of us and we discussed topics such as marketing strategies for his hotel business. At which point I interject with narrator narrative voice your tax payer dollar's at work embassador talking about marketing strategies for his hotel business with all of these foreign service officers and embassy staffers. But then here's the part that Bill Taylor brought to the attention of the impeachment committees quote during the lunch ambassador. Sunland said that he was going to call president trump to give him an update ambassador. Sunland placed the call on his mobile phone and I heard him announced himself several times. Along the lines of Gordon Sunlit for the president it appeared that he was being transferred through several layers switchboards and assistance then noticed ambassador. Someone's demeanor change. I understood that he had been connected. To President. Trump while embassador sunland phone was not on speakerphone. I could hear the president's voice through the earpiece of the phone. The president's voice was very loud and recognizable and ambassador. Sunland held the phone away from his ear for a period of time presumably because of the loud volume I heard ambassador. Sunland greet the president and explained that he was calling calling from. I heard President trump then clarify that ambassador sunlen was in Ukraine ambassador. Sunland replied yes. He was in Ukraine and went on to state date that President Zelinski. Forgive me here. I went onto state. The president's Alinsky loves your ASS. I said I wasn't isn't GonNa say the swear word and then I just did. I'm sorry homes continues. I then heard president trump. Ask so he's going to do the investigation ambassador assange replied that he's GonNa do it. Adding that presidents Alinsky will do anything you ask him to. Even though I did not take notes on these the statements. I have a clear recollection that these statements were made. I believe that my colleagues were sitting at the table also knew that ambassador Sunland was speaking with the president which which would mean there are two more witnesses. Who can attest to the fact that this happened? David homes then described some of the other things that happened on that conversation. He could overhear between Gordon. Insulin and president trump including naturally a a reference to the Kardashians. Long story we'll talk about that some other time but then there's this he says quote after the call ended Ambassador Sunland remarked that the president was in a bad mood as ambassador. Sunland stated is often the case early. In the morning I then took the opportunity to ask ambassador Sunland for his candidate impression of the president's views on Ukraine in particular I asked Ambassador Sunlit if it was is true that the president did not give that the president did not that the president did not give a shoot about Ukraine. He didn't say shoot ambassador. Embassador sunland agreed that the president did not give shoot about Ukraine. I asked why not an ambassador. sunlen stated that the president only cares about quote the big stuff. I noted that there was big stuff going on in Ukraine like a war with Russia Ambassador Sunland replied that he meant big stuff off that benefits. The president like the Biden investigation. That Mr Giuliani was pushing. The conversation then moved on to other topics again. That's from the opening statement from Foreign Service Officer David Holmes which is obtained and first published tonight by CNN. That witness both corroborating the testimony Moni. We've heard thus far from witnesses ambassadors Bill Taylor and Marie Ivanovich but also directly quoting the president in a conversation in which the president appears to have been checking up on his men in Ukraine to inquire as to the progress of these investigations into the bias that he was leaning on that foreign government to provide them the president pressuring that foreign government to do those investigations of course because of the domestic political benefit. He thought they would provide him here at home. And that of course is the core issue issue for which the president is now being impeached. David Holmes is testimony and presumably any further corroborating testimony on this matter that we may get from those other two alleged witnesses Mrs who were sitting there listening to that call as well or maybe even from ambassador. Gordon Sunland himself who is scheduled to testify next week. That testimony I mean it all puts the president squarely and personally in the role of not only running this operation for which is being impeached. But personally checking again on its progress as the pressure campaign was at its apex. So that's all happened. That's all come out tonight. Since since the Ivanovich testimony at this dramatic hours long hearing today I should also tell you that tomorrow. There's GonNa be another closed door deposition for the first time I an official from the White House Office of Management and budget is going to be testifying from good reporting I in the Wall Street Journal and also in the Washington Post. We believe that the official. Who's going to testify tomorrow? Morrow from Owen will be able to describe what appears to have been a strange process inside the White House in which somebody decided the career expert officials in charge of tracking something like military Ukraine. Those career expert officials were taken out of the process of releasing or holding the military aid to Ukraine. Those career officials were replaced instead by trump political appointee who had been the executive director of the Wisconsin. Jason Republican Party until now there has been no public reporting. Excuse me until now. There has been public reporting but no testimony to the impeachment inquiry that the reason the White House may have had to do that. The reason they may have had to take those career technocratic expert officials out of that policy process and instead installed their political appointee is because of a belief by the career officials that the president putting this hold on the military aid for Ukraine is something that was actually illegal. That is why the White House apparently had to take out of the loop these career officials because this career officials knew and expressed the view that that would be illegal legal so they had to take those people out of the mix and instead stick a political appointee in there. Who apparently would be happy to do it so that career Oh mb staffer is going to testify testify in a closed-door deposition tomorrow? I don't know if we're going to get an opening statement from that official the way we did from David Holmes tonight but stay tuned tuned. Impeachment is not stopping for the weekend. It's not even stopping tonight but we are starting to recognize consistent sort of dynamics namic at work in the way the president tried to pull off this scheme the way public officials public servants. Who would have who wouldn't wouldn't go along with it? Had to be taken off the job or otherwise sidelined so this scheme to pressure Ukraine for the president's benefit could go L. ahead. I don't know if you had a chance to watch George Kent testimony yesterday but would you agree with his rather frank assessment at if you fight corruption and you're GonNa Piss off some corrupt people. Yes and your efforts fighting corruption to advance policy interested you anger some of the crop leaders in Ukraine gene. Yes was one of those people prosecutor general Yury. Let's Hanko yes I believe. So and was Mr Lukashenko among others who coordinated with Mr Giuliani to peddle false accusations against you. As well as the Biden's yes that is my understanding and were these mirrors also amplified by the President's son Donald Trump junior as well as certain hosts on Fox. Yes yes that is the case in the face of this smear campaign did colleagues at the State Department tried to get a statement of support for you from Secretary Repub Pale. Yes were they successful. Did you come to learn that. They couldn't issue such a statement because they feared it would be undercut by the president. Yes and then. Were you told that you had done nothing wrong. You did not enjoy the confidence of the president and could no longer serve as ambassador. Yes that is correct and in fact you flew home from Kiev on the same day. As the inauguration of Ukraine's new president and that's true that inauguration was attended by a three hope become known as the three goes embassador. sunlen Volcker and Perry wasn't yes three days after that inauguration in a meeting with president trump. Are you aware that the president designated these three Amigos to coordinate bordenave Ukraine policy with Rudy Giuliani Cincinnati. Become aware of that. This is the same Rudy Giuliani. WHO orchestrated a smear campaign against you? Yes and the same Rudy Giuliani. Who during the now infamous July twenty fifth phone call? The president recommended twos Lewinsky in the context. Six to the two investigations. The President wanted into the twenty sixteen election. And the Biden's yes. Yes so yeah they needed you. Know they need the the career official at the White House budget office. Who realizes they're going to do? They're trying to do an illegal hold on military aid to Ukraine. Yeah they need that official out out of there instead putting a political appointee he'll do it similarly. They need ambassador. Maria Vich thirty thirty three year. Foreign Service inveterate serious person right. They need Marie Ianovich Patriot out of there so they pulled together this kind of Kabbalah all of slime merchants to cook wild false allegations against Maria Vich and they use that as the way to get out of there and then once she's out of there they instead dead. Install the president's guys to move in and make sure that Ukraine gets the full brunt of the pressure campaign that they've got to get trump those investigations to help them for twenty twenty. And there's the president on the phone to one of those guys. I'm getting my investigations. Yes Sir your President Mr President they gotta give you anything you want. I could. That's what he wants to know because that's the big stuff that's the big stuff that benefits him and that's what he's using Ukraine for and so yeah. Of course you've got to get somebody like Marie Ivanovich out of there. She's he's not gonNA play. These reindeer games. Are you got to get the real ambassador out of there. You gotta get her out of the way so your guys can come in and take that situation in. Take that situation over. In order to pull off the scheme to upend everything. The United States is doing in accordance with US policy and US interests in that country to instead. Ed Turn it all to the president's domestic political benefit. The last time you were in Ukraine was may twentieth of this year. Right yes in his opening statement ambassador Taylor said he took charge and Ukraine on June seventeenth. Yes therefore there was almost. Oh stay one month gap between the time you departed and when Taylor took over right yes yes during that time on May twentieth anyth- Ambassador Sunlen Rick. Perry and others came to the inauguration of President Dolinsky right and during that gap in time ambassador Sunlen visited the White House along with others and got directions from president trump to talk to rudy those. Those were his words. talked to rudy about what to do in Ukraine right. That's my understanding in other words. Isn't it the case that your departure and the one month gap between the time you left and went ambassador. Taylor arrived provided the perfect opportunity community for another group of people to basically take over. Ukraine policy. Isn't that right. Yeah Ambassador you'RE GONNA have to speak a little louder into the mice. Yes yes yeah. They had to get her out of there. They had to run this smear campaign against her get her yanked out of there so that the trump guys who are willing to take direction from Rudy Giuliani and take direction from the president about getting those investigations allegations and in the case of Gordon silent by his own admission the guys who are willing to tell Ukraine that they weren't gonna get their military aid unless they call that stuff up. Those guys had to get in there which meant ambassador. Maria Vich had to get out if you had remained ambassador to Ukraine. Would you have recommended to the president of the United States that he asked the new Ukrainian president to investigate. And I'm quoting from the transcript here crowd strike or the server now. I would repeat once again that the US the US intelligence community has concluded that it was the Russians. Okay Inter so investor if you hit and remained as ambassador and not been summarily dismissed the would you have supported a three month delay in congressionally mandated military aid to Ukraine. Now ambassador best if you had remained as ambassador of Ukraine would you recommend to the president that he asking new president of Ukraine to quote. Find out about Biden's son. I have no more questions. Yield back the balance of mytalk. Yeah she wouldn't have done any of those things she wouldn't have stood for any of those things so they had to get her out of there. which would have worked perfectly? Except for the fact that what people like that people who have been run roughshod like that people who've had to be ejected from the normal course so that the president's guys could come in and do what the president needed to be done regardless of whether it was illegal the people who got ejected from that process whether the career staffers in the budget office or the career ambassador and the embassy those people are real people who are alive and who will respond to subpoenas when lawfully subjected to compulsory process by an impeachment proceeding seating. There were a couple of other things that were either brand new at this hearing today or that intruded on the hearing from outside. They were both big surprises. In in one of these cases it made me get up off my couch and jump up and down and call everybody that I know of those instances coming up. Stay the last time tonight hey. MSNBC listeners it's me Chuck Rosenberg this week. On the oath I sit down with Roberta Jacobson when the former United States ambassador to Mexico on a day to day basis Canada and Mexico affect more citizens of the United States than perhaps anywhere else the world. Roberta Jacobson has spent her professional life in service to the United States. In her case by advancing its interests abroad responsible for the operation of the the US embassy in Mexico and for the crucial relationship with our large and vibrant neighbor to the south. It's very much bringing America to the world and and bringing the world back to America. Please join me for that conversation with. Roberta Jacobson the former United States ambassador to Mexico. That's this week on. MSNBC's news the oath available now wherever you get your podcasts. About an hour into today's dramatic impeachment hearing an external event intruded fruited upon the hearing about ten. Am this morning eastern time when the president himself made a statement online attacking ambassador. Marie Ivanovich even S.. She testified and that of course is sort of the president's Mo right this is one of his favorite ways to derail the news when things are not going his way. He just grabs the nearest third rail and says something so outrageous deliberately outrageous that people in good faith and in good conscience can't ignore it and people stop stop talking about whatever was going on in the news that he was trying to distract from an instead they turn to the president's latest outrageous statement and talk about that if this president was the pony and he had to be reduced to one trick that would be his one pony trick like. That's the closest thing. He has to a superpower but when the president trump tried that standard one trick pony trick today in the middle of Maria versus testimony. It went wrong for him and a couple of important ways bester. You're showing the courage to come forward today and testify. Notwithstanding the fact you urged by the White House or State Department not to notwithstanding the fact that as you testified earlier. You're the president implicitly. Threatened you in that call record and now the president real time is attacking you. What effect do you think that has on other witnesses? Willingness to come forward and expose wrongdoing. Well it's very intimidating dime designed to intimidate is it not. I can't speak to what the president is trying to do but I think the effect is to be intimidating. Well I want to let you know about Astro that some of us here take witness intimidation varies very seriously part of the reason. This standard trump attention trick of saying something outrageous. Diverting everybody's attention from what was going on to instead pay attention to whatever latest outrageous thing he has said or done part of the reason. I think this went a little pear shape for the president. Today is number one because impeachment hearing is not a news cycle. It's a real thing and the president may have just earned himself. A new standalone article of impeachment today for witness intimidation by having the goal to do this in the middle of public testimony. That was in part about the way the president has mistreated and used this distinguished career. Foreign Service Officer. Who had never done anything wrong? That's one of the president's not used to like you know accountability accountability so that was hard the other reason it went wrong for the president today though is just Karmic. Bad timing because within the hour of that happening in that that hearing room a jury sitting in federal court in Washington. DC finished up. Their deliberations filed back into a courtroom and handed to the judge. This verdict this verdict sheet. These two pages are the verdict sheet. They handed over to the judge today. This verdict against the president's most longstanding political adviser Roger Stone and as you can see there on the verdict sheet the jury was asked to consider seven. Felony counts against Mr Stone. Their decision on those counts was guilty. Guilty guilty guilty guilty guilty guilty and in some ways this verdict. It's sort of tempting to see it as yet. Another trump campaign campaign figure go into prison or at least a waiting at least another one of them awaiting sentencing after being convicted or pleading guilty of felony charges. I mean there's a lot of them now right you are going to name a wing after them. At some point I mean everybody from his National Security Adviser to his campaign chairman to his deputy campaign chairman to his foreign policy adviser to his lawyer. This guy too you mean. It is tempting to just add this news. Seven Count Felony conviction today to the pile but it was also impossible to avoid the fact today that the AH The felony for which Roger Stone is facing the most jail time of these seven felonies which he was convicted today the one for which he's looking at a potential twenty year. Maximum prison sentence sentenced is the crime of witness. Tampering was count seven today against Roger Stone. A violation of eighteen. US Code Section fifteen. Twelve B subsection. One we the members of the jury unanimously find Mr Stone guilty counts seven witness tampering among the most damning evidence in the mullahs report in volume told the Miller report was the evidence. The the president had tried to tamper with witnesses in the Russia case including Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort and others and the special counsel said he couldn't bring criminal charges against the president for that behavior or anything else but the impeachment inquiry is not constrained in the same way so within the hour that the president resident is hearing from the head of the impeachment inquiry about how seriously how very very seriously those committees take the crime of witness intimidation. A here's his longstanding political adviser being convicted in a criminal court of witness intimidation so that all being spat out of the volcano by the news. God's at the same time today wasn't very dramatic thing but immediately after that happened in the head while the hearing was still buzzing with what had just happened there in front of their eyes. We then got a brand new piece of information about the president's behavior here and the president's motivation here that had never been voiced before this is the thing that made me get off the couch and stand up and start calling everybody that I know that's next. We've got a lot to come tonight. Stay with us so this was new today today noon today and fascinating to me last night on the show you might remember. We talked about how this pressure campaign against Ukraine for which president trump is being impeached. The campaign was designed to get the government in Ukraine to announce some kind of investigation into Democratic presidential front runner. Joe Biden and because you can't put too fine a point on it with with these guys even if you try. The specific demand was that Ukraine needed to announce this Biden investigation publicly. They didn't need to just start an investigation. They needed to announced announced. They were doing so so of course. It would have maximum damaging or embarrassing political effect. But actually put that quote back up there on the screen again from Bill Taylor's testimony because it wasn't just an investigation of Joe Biden that he that the president wanted announced by Ukraine. Right it was also that he. He wanted an announced investigation from Ukraine of Twenty Sixteen election. Interference two thousand sixteen election interference by Ukraine. He while an investigation announced into that two thousand sixteen election interference by Ukraine is not a thing it did not happen. It was Russia that interfered in the two thousand sixteen election to benefit Donald Trump. It wasn't Ukraine so last night on the show. We tried to find in the wild some trace some explanation for where that weird sort of backwards theory about the two thousand sixteen election might have come come from I mean the whole. US intelligence community says it was Russia. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee just a few weeks ago said it was Russia more than a dozen Russian intelligence officers currently indicted by the Justice Department. Because it was Russia it was Russia. So where is this weird thing coming from. That trump is pursuing in this pressure campaign in Ukraine. This insistence by him that it wasn't Russia that interfered in two thousand sixteen. It was Ukraine. That did it well as of last night as I mentioned on the show last night the incidents as we know of in the wild where that strange thing might have come from was documented in this. FBI interview report from Trump's deputy campaign chair Rick Gates Rick Gates explaining leaning to the FBI under penalty of perjury. That the argument that it wasn't Russia it was Ukraine. That argument was spread in the first instance in this country by Donald Trump's now now imprisoned campaign chairman Paul Manafort. And where did Paul Manafort get that theory that he started spreading in this country. Well what Gates told the FBI is that that he was parroting it. From a guy named Kalinic Constan columnist who manafort had worked with in Ukraine for years. Kalinic is somebody who the FBI says is is affiliated with Russian intelligence agencies so this theory that trump was demanding that Ukraine needed to provide him men announced investigation about one of the Biden investigation announced but he wanted this other investigation announced to best as we can tell this other thing he wanted. A- An announced Ukrainian investigation into this weird claim that it wasn't Russia. It was Ukraine that interfered in our last election. That claim appears to have originated with Russian intelligence elegance. Russian intelligence gets fed to trump's former campaign chair exit lots of dealings with pro-putin elements in the world. Right he's now in prison but it goes us from Russian intelligence to Manafort one spreads. It Giuliani admits that he's been talking to Manafort about strategy on this whole campaign that he's been running for the president in Ukraine but at that chain of command sort of make sense right. Russia wants to muddy the waters. Russia wants to blame somebody else. Russia doesn't want to be held to account for what they did. Well that's what we knew as of last night then knocked me over with a feather. This happened today now. Are you familiar with these allegations of Ukrainian interference appearance in two thousand sixteen election ee. I mean there have been rumors out there about things like that but there was nothing hard at least nothing that I was aware of. There's nothing based in fact. I support these allegations nations. Yes and in fact who was responsible for interfering in meddling in the two thousand sixteen election while the US US intelligence community has concluded that it was Russia's ambassador rebounded. which are you aware that in February of two thousand Seventeen Vladimir Putin himself it promoted this theory of Ukrainian interference in the two thousand sixteen election? You know maybe I any that once and have forgotten but I am not familiar with it. Now let me show you a press statement that President Putin made in a joint joint press conference with Viktor Orban of Hungary on February second of twenty seventeen where he says second as we all know during the presidential residential campaign in the United States the Ukrainian government adopted a unilateral position in favor of one candidate more than that certain an oligarchy certainly with the approval of the political leadership. Funded this candidate or female candidate to be more precise now. How would this theory of Ukraine interference in the two thousand sixteen election? BE IN VLADIMIR PUTIN'S INTEREST I. Well I mean president. Putin must have been aware that There were concerns in the US about Russian meddling in the two thousand sixteen elections and what the potential was for Russian meddling in the future so classic for an intelligence officer to try to throw off the scent and create an alternative narrative that maybe might get picked up and get some credence an alternative narrative that would solve his own wrongdoing. Turns out this thing. That trump has been spinning thinning. This weird thing about Ukraine during the election I want you to announce an investigation into that. He's spinning that exactly. The way the Vladimir Putin has been spinning it and the way that Russian intelligence was feeding it to his now imprisoned campaign chairman who was talking to Rudy Giuliani about strategy in this campaign. I mean and that was just like an interstitial thing that came up at a quiet moment today man. What's next joining us now here on etc congressman? Jim himes he's a member of the Intelligence Committee Sir. I know it's been a big long tiring exhausting day and thank you for being here. I'm just talking about working at thirty rock today. Not even what you've been doing Let me just ask your impressions of the second hearing today with Ambassador Bridge well. It's SORTA hard to summarize in ten seconds right. I mean it was just a stunning hearing airing first and foremost because I mean the ambassador. What US startling profiling courage and it was amazing? I'm so this leads to the second thing. That was pretty amazing. Is that you know just as the Republicans are falling all over themselves not to attack her. You know to to thank Urfa. Her service boom outcomes the presidential tweet where he says everywhere she went. Anything screwed up. Blame Somalia blaming all. You just can't make this stuff up but really the story that's told today is a story of this isn't just a bad phone call. This is a three four or month effort with a very clear goal to get it to get an investigation of the Biden's going It started with her before her firing right. Because these these these second array gangsters and Ukraine and Rudy Giuliani. Were spreading these rumors in Ukraine. You know well before she ultimately was told to come home in terms of sort of what we learned that was new and new perspectives perspectives. That we got today that we couldn't we the public couldn't get without hearing from these witnesses. I was really struck today when she said like basically I understand why they wanted me out of there or now like I didn't understand it at the time but I can now see now that I can see the larger scheme that was at work. What I don't understand is why they didn't just remove me for no reason why they had to try to destroy me why they had to smear me and us all make an lovey all these false accusations against me and her even to this day sort of bewilderment and sadness over over that is something that I found very effecting but I also I don't know if you know the answer of the committee has some sort of theory as to why she had to be humiliated and destroyed instead of just taken out of the way? Well I don't think it's any more complicated than the inside of Donald Trump's brain. I mean today really put into Into relief that line and chairmanship brought it out that line about In the transcript where the President says Lukashenko. WHO's a very dirty guy? This is the guy who started the whole lie and by the way admitted that it was a lie that there was a do not prosecute list a very dirty guy. He's talking him up in the transcript saying Greek right and then of course about The ambassador Ianovich says it's a she's a bad woman. Some things are going to happen to her. I mean it's just it's a complete inversion of any recognizable moral code. That's the inside of Donald Trump's head in terms of what happens next year. Obviously the the inquiry appears to be expanding the closed-door deposition that happened today With David Holmes a person who overheard this conversation which the president was enquiring about these investigations nations. Tomorrow there's going to be another deposition office of Management and budget career staffer who we can. We think we know from open source reporting was sort of taken out of the loop around military eight on Ukraine wants so embassy. Staffers decided it might be illegal to do that. Hold it seems like however fast you guys are wanting to go on the intelligence committee. You're getting more witnesses because more people we're coming forward as the story comes out that's right and I mean today was important with this new witness in the new the new deposition because look the facts here aren't in dispute the long campaign to get ah investigation of the Biden's done that involved withholding military aid that involved dangling that we've known that no one's denying that the Republicans aren't tonight. They're just they're just saying it's okay right but what the piece that was missing that began to fall into place. Today was a riff on the Watergate thing you know what did the president say. When did he you say we haven't actually known who the president talked to other than Alinsky right so today we learn about this phone call where Donald Trump is enquiring about his? His investigation in San Luis ain't going. It's going to happen and by the way they'll do anything you want. That is an remember ambassador sunland coming before the committee next week. So that direct connection to the president. That's that's what's developing now. Can you tell us about any time. Horizon in terms of how long public hearings will go on for. Well you know. Our hope was that we might begin to wind him up towards the end of next week or around there. Because if you think about it. I'm pretty sure. The speakers is committed to getting this process done hopefully by the end of the year ish. If you sort of it worked through all the testimony what you share needs to do you know. You're you're already struggling to make that Timetable but again. You just don't know what's going to happen. The other big piece here of course is Rudy. Giuliani Rudy Giuliani. Is the other half of this thing. He's running around Ukraine. You know smearing and ambassador. God only knows what sort of business deals he was pursuing and because he won't appear in in contempt of Congress and we'll we'll we'll deal with that down the road. It's going to take some time to know that all that that other half of the story here congressman. Jim himes the House Intelligence Committee. So it's great to have you here. Thank you all right. We'll be right back. Stay with US joining us now. Is Somebody who I am. Honored to have have here on set. Somebody who I should mention has deep knowledge of presidents and impeachment. Tom Brokaw covered president. Richard Nixon's final year in the White House as he tried to Outrun Watergate he later anchored. NBC nightly news during the impeachment of President Clinton Thomas now a senior correspondent for NBC News. The also the author of a new book called the fall all of Richard Nixon. A reporter Remembers Watergate. Talk about good timing. Search great to have you here. I would like to say that I was so pressing I saw this coming and in fact it it was not due to come out until later in November but we thought maybe we ought to get it out right now because there are things in here that have application to now. But there's been a lot of change as well do you. I feel like we over. Extrapolate from the Watergate example to understand the current impeachment. Or do you feel like it does have separate and unequal in so many ways Richard. Nixon was in office for throw full year when most of the samples go under prison. We have the tapes or looking at it and yet they couldn't quite get the apparatus going but they were very meticulous us about it and when they finally got around to the Supreme Court saying you've got to give up the tapes by then a Bairo position was in on the hill and ready to initiate impeachment. But he in fact resigned before all of that happened. The other thing is different than we're on the air two or three times tate. We weren't on twenty four seven. It wasn't that kind of constant thing going on watching today for what it's worth. I thought the most dramatic moment was cheap shots at the president made about her and her experience in Somalia. I've been one of the most dangerous places in the world. It was a home Black Hawk down and for kind of saw. Throw that off. Here's a guy who goes home tomorrow. Law Go at night and she was out on a really tough places but at the same time. You have to remember that impeachment. There's a procedure that the rest of the country also has a voice in and I think this situation now is hard for a lot of people to kind of Parse it. You know what what's going on there. Isn't that how they always do business. So my own judgment is that I think there has to be one more hand in the cookie jar coming out with a whole kind of stuff that are the visible to everyone else and they know that he has done something not just dramatically wrong but something against the best interest of this country in terms of the the way it's playing Out Obviously we're it's early in the process that we don't know how early we just heard Congressman himes saying that. The aim is to try to finish this entirely by the end of this year. We're already pretty deep into November. So we don't know how long this process is go on for but we at least at this point the Republicans not really defending the president on substance of what he did but instead and complaining about Adam Schiff trying to complain about the means by which the increase being conducted. I I mean they're parallels there in terms of Watergate or is this a a new approach that the Republicans are taking devising every time you have a new approach. The situation is different circumstances. You work as Bill Clinton case for example a President Nixon was going to be found guilty. There's no question about it but he lashes full era which is a reminder that I keep making the people but he was able to hang in there because the country doesn't give up their president's easily This guy for whatever we think about him so has a loyal core of will show those rallies and the the big big changes. What we're doing right here in terms of the three twenty four seven? Everybody's got something to say and everybody however inconsequential they may be has the place on that big big billboard people kind of have to listen to it so there's a lot of sorting out yet to go here but I always believed in the NFL theory the unforeseen we'll liquor quite what that's going to be. But we're in for a long tumultuous time it's going to be a test of this country quite honestly about what they have in mind for our future and for our system of governing and. I think everybody has to say about that first. Tom Brokaw is the author. Most recently of the fall of Richard Nixon. Nixon reporter Remembers Watergate. Tom's honor thanks. We'll be right back. Stay with us. How was your day? They do it for us tonight. We will see you again on Monday when I'm sure I'll be just as overwhelmed. The meadow show weeknights at nine eastern on MSNBC S. NBC. New Meet the press that Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics. The two thousand twenty election more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

President president Ukraine President trump trump Donald Trump Ambassador Taylor Joe Biden Rudy Giuliani United States Ambassador Sunland David Holmes President Zelinski trump Ambassador Ianovich President Dolinsky Sunland Marie Ivanovich President Putin White House United States ambassador to Me
Communist Basketball Association

The Charlie Kirk Show

37:01 min | 10 months ago

Communist Basketball Association

"Thank you for listening to this. podcast one production available on Apple podcasts and podcasts one today on the Charlie Kirk show we the much needed clarity on the confusing Ukrainian subpoena impeachment et Cetera et Cetera et Cetera. You get an impeachment you get a subpoena what is going on we offer you the answer Democrats do not want to go down that path the latest subpoena in this total witch hunt and if you WANNA learn more about that witch hunt and all things related to Russia Ukraine Bob Muller and he's going to help guide us through this ever changing story when it comes to Ukraine and comes to impeachment so we're going to try to make sense of all the confusion this now started let's just take a step back started with this phone call on July twenty fifth of President Donald Trump congratulating the new president of Ukraine our culture war on campuses all across the country turning point USA USA DOT com we had over eight hundred attendees they had to open up the room for even more very complex but we're not GONNA make complex we're GONNA make it digestible so look Mike Pompeo has indicated that the State Department would not comply with subpoenas from this Democrat charade ranges of the news cycle and the minute by minute changes so I was going through some show prep here with Mr Producer who's GonNa kind of help out a little bit today that low because Nancy Pelosi is not held an official peach vote Republicans are not allowed to subpoena as well and so since the Democrats are in the majority of the House representatives they have subpoena power freedom campuses across the country that's why we are here art everybody welcome to this edition of the Charlie Kirk Show I feel like we are living people couple protests here and there I'm reading the dishonest news coverage around that evening and at night but I have not been totally into the hourly then try to tell you exactly where things stand and is really open to this in kind of the in the show prep so first of all the Democrats are subpoenaing like crazy the majority does not have equal subpoena power hover as soon as an official impeachment vote is taken as soon as that happens then all of a sudden Republicans are granted subpoena power so and so forth go to the previous episode witch hunt and check out our amazing interview with Gregg Jarrett who's been getting it's been getting great reviews or president trump at this morning a kangaroo court directed and through a Tom clancy novel I've been doing a lot of traveling lately a Monday night I was at the University of Nevada Reno for the kickoff of our campus offer youth organisations ever created turning point USA he will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives and we are going to fight and now news is coming in at the official position of the White House is that they will not comply with the impeachment inquiry as it is quote illegitimate and unconstitutional so the whole Party right now in press subscribe leave us a review get a friend to do the same and give us five stars again this is Charlie Kirk Coast Charlie Kirk show your home of conserved libertarian the EU ambassador Sunland. There's a lot of actors in this kind of Tom Clancy movie let's treat this like a TV episode we're going to walk you through it because it's super interesting it's rational thinking here we go charlie what you've done is incredible here maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus we are lucky to have Charlie of course we unpacked all of that in previous episodes you can go back in the Charlie Kirk show archives and kind of go through and find out what was actually said on the call wasn't sudden call quick recap Charlie cuts running the White House I wanNA thank Joe he's an incredible guy his spirit his love of this country he's done an amazing job building one of the most The idea of corruption was first brought up by the president of Ukraine Rudy Giuliani was first brought up by the president of Ukraine and there is no cred quid pro quo get back to that phrase in a second because that phrase is being said quite a lot house Democrats have now decided to investigate this and put subpoenas all over the place so there's one actor in this entire place the trump administration so he was tasked with a very specific purpose of trying to solve some issues between Ukraine and the United States and root out corruption one actor in this TV episode by the name of Kurt Volker you probably heard that name throwing around on social media The news Kurt Volker was the special envoy to Ukraine United States Ambassador to the European Union you have actor number two Kurt Volker who is the United States ambassador to Ukraine we'll get into some other actors Kurt Volker has an outstanding reputation and Kirk Volker is very very well respected so you've actor number one which is ambassador Sunland who is the in just a second so Kurt Volker said about the alleged quid pro quo that president trump is accused of now the quid pro quo that president trump is accused of is that president trump was withholding aid a billion dollars in aid to Ukraine leveraging it over Ukraine because they were not investigating the Haydn's and the corruption around that this is the major accusation this is the foundation of the impeachment accusation against Donald Trump. I'm trying to go very deliberate because I love it when we were prepping for the show it all of these pieces get very confusing they get I was I was getting a little bit mixed that's prepared with an eleven page document that he's prepared in advance to kind of lay out how this Ukrainian presidential phone call with President Donald Trump came to be in the first with House Democrats was essentially subpoena him that go behind closed doors you've got the majority House Democrats and you got the minority House Republicans investigating right Volker around with names and with titles and so I'm trying to be as specific as I can and we always want to bring our audience exactly what's going on so let's just paint a little back story here for what volkers interaction so we'll get to this text message in just a second so Kurt Volker who testified in front of Congress he said the following he said in regards to the aged quid pro quo quote as is well documented long supported lifting the ban on lethal defensive assistance to Ukraine advocated for the supply of Javelin antitank systems advocated for any increase in US assistance and urged other nations to provide more assistance as well and so essentially six times during his testimony Kurt Volker exonerates replace what negotiations happened that led up to it I came complete with a lever page document and what they call a witness statement and a bunch of text messages right and ever stating but not for the president if you read the whole thing rather than Cherry pick the anti-trump bits the statement is devastating the president of the United States against the major accusation that Democrats are hurling at so here are a few highlights from his congressional testimony Steve Hilton by trump critics as an honest broker listen to his actual evidence on page three he says at no time was real time dialogue with several different actors Vice President Biden was never a topic of discussion on page six talking about President Trump delaying me beyond dishonest they did not talk about in these text messages Kurt Volker and most importantly ambassador sunland exonerate the all the Democrats it's devastating to the case for impeachment it pretty much exonerates the president on the main impeachment charges Kurt Volker has been involved was president trump's concerns over Ukraine corruption exactly as he's been saying so the mainstream media which has become a propaganda arm of the Democrat Party they are so ware of all took part in an effort to urge Ukraine to investigate former vice president biden as you will see from the extensive text messages I'm providing which convey a sense of in every aspect of this story dealing face to face with all the key players all along president trump presidency landscapes Alaska's advisor Rudy Giuliani volkers been described sunland however shoots this down so bill Taylor and ambassador Sunland are basically debating back and forth on this group text message so bill Taylor our friend Steve Hilton. I'm going to be there this upcoming Sunday I'm GonNa be on a show October Thirteenth Steve Hilton does an excellent job of breaking it down Volka statement is indeed with the Lansky delay that based on the texts alone the media site as evidence of trump pressuring Ukraine to investigate Biden Volka says Jon voight Ukraine William Taylor Tempering Bassil Ukraine Gordon Sunland the ambassador to the European Union the text messages from September ninth just as the whistle blower part of the separation of powers historically that's when Congress has acted and Republicans the White House they have obviously settled on but I believe that the president's long held negative view towards Ukraine was causing hesitation in actually scheduling the meeting nothing to do with investigating Biden President has been crystal clear no quid pro quo of any kind the president is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency reforms that presidents alinsky promised during the campaign attraction to Plano narrative. Let's play the clip so the obstruction question the question of whether or not Congress has the right to subpoena that's actually something that goes directly to the single text message they want to figure out if they can sink his credibility so I wanted to take a step back I want everyone to understand what's going on here you have three major actors in this little skit here go was breaking so one part of the text exchange finds Taylor bind the idea that trump was pressuring Ukraine to kick off investigation in order to help is two thousand twenty percent campaign. You've Kurt Volker you have William Taylor who's a new person who's the temporary ambassador to Ukraine you got all these people Gordon Sunland ambassador European Union they have tex-mex the reality that House Democrats are moving on this and so yes the Democrats are saying Adam Schiff said this morning this is another piece of evidence not from government we talk about the bill writes the First Amendment and the what the Second Amendment and guess what it's a fact that the media severely misleads the public about guns according to I suggest we stopped the back and forth by text end of quote Sunland responded now House Democrats want to Subpoena Samland why because he totally obliterates their quid pro quo narrative way to fight back against the bias the United States concealed carry association is here to Offer Award Winning Education Training and legal protection to responsibly armed Americans like you and makes the assumption that trump did something wrong he says in the text message this quote as I said on the phone it is crazy to withhold security systems for help with a political campaign end of quote nineteen ninety-four CDC survey that's the Center for Disease Control Survey Americans who firearms protect themselves and their loved ones over one million times per year president of the United States so this group text that's right for those yet used group texts all the time to tell your friends about football scores or about were what were you on hosts so committee requirement that these officials testify without the presence of a government attorney is totally and legally invalid President Trump tweeted this morning explaining why straight shooter about it totally and completely exonerates the present United States Attorney General Bar has refused to comply with this request and if you listen to mainstream media this is the beginning of the about a lot on the Charlie Kirk show the constitution is the greatest political document ever written in the history of the world because it recognizes Scottish enlightenment natural rights that our rights come from God that means without firearms one hundred sixty thousand lives would be lost and over one million more crimes would be committed every single year at the media thinks that disarming the public will protect US fortunately this triple to to claim your free chance to win one thousand dollars now you could use the money towards a firearm concealed carry weapon class or anything else you need to protect your rights and defend your loved ones that's Kirk okay two eight seven triple two so the Democrats they are crying obstruction because being a Democrat is totally synonymous with moving the golden but ending the endless wars we talked about protecting the Constitution and Free Markets Congressman Matt Gates had a great piece of sound around this what we see in this impeachment is a kangaroo you know that one million times a year with over one hundred sixty two thousand of those cases likely ending in an unfortunate death of the victim if they hadn't used their weapon have legal representation you hear about Gotcha moments on twitter you're about Gotcha moments on TV they want Gotcha committees they wanna be able to catch people omlund is not testifying he said quote I would love to see him passenger silent a really good man and great American to testify but unfortunately huby testifying before a totally compromised and me and this month the United States concealed Carry Association Amazing Organization you guys gotTa get involved this they're terrific they're giving away nineteen free chances to win a thousand dollars flatfooted unprepared so in other words Congress led by Nancy Pelosi and chairman Adam Schiff who should resign by the way cannot compel in executive branch witness and his Adam Schiff totally lying about what president trump said on the phone call complete and total fabrication well it reads like a classic Justice Department found that quote congressional subpoenas that purport to require agency employees to appear without agency council are legally invalid and are not subject to civil or criminal enforcement you guys WanNa go out anyway now we have a group text at the highest possible level. I knew this would eventually happen that we'd have group texts now in the news cycle in the group text we have Kurt Volker who at the time was the US which text message about the very thing that the president is being accused of an Sunland says in tax message he believes that they are incorrect about President Trump's intentions the organized crime shakedown shorn of its rambling character and not so many words this is the essence of what the president communicates and has been crystal clear no quid pro quo kind of guess what someone had no reason to lie about this in writing he had no reason but to tell the truth and sandline had no reason but to be we've been very good to your country very good no other country has done as much as we have but you know what I don't see much reciprocity here I hear what says and I'll say this again if president trump truly did something worth impeaching why do they have to make stuff up the evidence itself should be enough and in our case that we're building on obstruction of congress is Jeffrey just said so why are they crying obstruction well I'll tell you exactly why but I so as we president of the United States House Democrats chose to selectively leaked text messages provided them by State Department while refusing to release the full transcript of Kurt volkers testimony absolutely tweet I think the president meant text message but in his tweet he said tweet our good friend and actually everyone should go check out our interview with Congressman Matt Gates it was a really good interview we talked Andrew Court or a Banana Republic when Republicans rights have been taken away and true facts are not allowed out for the public he finishes sentenced to see so and then he continues importantly ambassador as Bill Taylor wrote in the encrypted text message Sunland Gordon sign that comes in a group tax and he says this bill I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions the you want I have a favor I want from you though and I'm going to say this only seven times so you better listen good I want you to make up dirt on my political opponent understand like Andrew Young they're giving away money for defensive item of your choice but instead of giving away money they're giving away guns so a text Kirk K. R. K. Two eight seven two to eighty seven each a dark moment in our country where this is being so widely misrepresented by the media being so widely misrepresented by the Democrat Party where there was no quid pro quo in fact trying to communicate with the president of Ukraine it would be funny if it wasn't such a graphic portrayal of the president's oath of office so we've played this sound for you before but we just can't forget how crazy art and chairman shift is acting like a militia captain kangaroo so legally the Democrats are totally out of bounds here in fact a May twenty third two dozen nineteen legal opinion by the he's got the whole weight of the American law enforcement behind him and I'm GonNa put you in touch with Rudy you're GonNa love him trust me you know what I'm asking I'm going to say this a few more times in a few more ways and by the way don't call me again I'll call you when you've done what I asked this is in some in character what the president was had lots of it on this and on that I'm going to put you in touch with people and not just any people I'm GonNa put you in touch with attorney general the United States my Attorney General Bill Bar the House Democrats are not playing by the Rules House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff lied to the American people by fabricating conversation between President Trump and Ukraine in fact let's play sounded that this inlands tweet which few reported stated I believe you are incorrect about President trump's intentions the president isn't crystal clear no quid pro quo vinnie contact says it all now the United States we have a text message literally text message that says the president has been crystal clear no quid pro quo of any kind the president is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is going to adopt Donlan to appear without council president trump in the federal government have a legitimate interest in protecting privileged information which is a right the house cannot simply ignore and why should we be surprised take that risk so things are moving very fast with the story we're going to stay on top of it here at the Charlie Kirk show we try to just give you the facts and then we'll give you the analysis right after that but I'll tell you that it is and why haven't they released all the transcripts from the vulgar testimony well the answer is they haven't released everything because it actually might exonerate the president this is a political fight to take down the price the Democrats want to be able to bring in everyone that they want without allowing them to have any sort of legal representation whatsoever this is actually constitutional it is unconstitutional that you've not even allowed spectacle and now the house Freedom Caucus is demanding that they release them all because they say that once you see everything in context sure enough will be exonerated for the President House Democrats can't afford and we also do a deep dive into the Communist Basketball Association otherwise known as the N. B. A. before we press go please relied on that via text message if you would misrepresentative communications with the United States and eventually got under oath he could be indicted he has no reason to lie it is a very dark I r. k. text Kirk to eighty seven triple two eight seven two two two to claim your entries and learn more one more time the United States concealed carry association you guys got involved with this Kirk K. is transparency in reforms that presidents alinsky promised campaign I suggest we stopped the back and forth by Tex Solomon responded Ambassador Sunland who could be indicted who could go to jail for in our country that we have gone so far down this witch hunt rabbit hole after three years of the fight and they found nothing now we're going to rain sequel this is a horror show it's bad our country it's bad for our dialogue it's bad for the future and it's up to us to hold the Democrats and the mainstream media accountable with the facts that we presented here venturo watchers Crea- you dare disobey or if Your Day not dare not follow the status quo they will penalize you the tweet was really literally said fight for freedom stand with Hong Kong what this really they released this statement in response to Maurice tweet quote we recognize the views expressed by Houston Rockets General Manager Darryl Maury have deeply offended many of our friends subpoenas and impeachment will be continuing to cover this but now I wanna talk about something very important the National Basketball Association or shy call it the communist the reason why Ventura now has over eighteen thousand five star reviews because they're modern timepieces masterful blend fashion and function into one affordable timepiece and exclusive deal for offended is the NBA which is now in my opinion a fraudulent immoral anti-american organization that I'm GonNa have a hard time supporting and by the way I wasn't Lasko Ball Association I'll explain why rockets general manager Darryl Maury tweeted a graphic that said fight for Freedom Stan with Hongkong look there there's nothing radical education concentration camps where millions of Muslims are in concentration camps are they okay with the harvesting of organs that the Guardian a UK publication that as far left wing actually proved actually happen they caught me not wearing my Ventura Watch and it was quite embarrassing and so don't be me get your Ventura Watch men need watch women men in your life and you just watch so while each ends in China which is regrettable while Darrell has made it clear that it's tweet does not represent the rocket to the NBA the values of the League support individuals educating themselves in sharing their views about that and we've talked about this issue on the show the Chinese Communist Party is evil there's a difference between China and the Chinese Communist Party well the NBA is up in arms in a way that I've never seen them before it's painstakingly handcrafted absolute quality they come at a fraction of the price of other luxury watches of the same look and feel cherished says the best in the industry I agree there's it is the NBA are they okay that Muslims are in concentration camps right now is the NBA stand for Muslims and concentration camps because even NBC news had a special where they went out to these re yeah I actually was traveling without my chair watch and somebody came up to me and they listen to the Charlie Kirk show listen every Charlie Kirk show is in Iowa and they said Charlie where's your chair watching it is important to them we have great respect for the history and Culture China are you kidding me and hope that sports and the NBA can be used as a unifying force to bridge cultural divides and bring people together percent off for daily wear special occasions around the office at Classic Wristwatch is something every man needs so when you've got a nice watch it changes the way you carry yourself the way you feel and therefore it and don't forget that Promo Code Kirk K. R. K. for fifteen percent off go do it now so I know there's all this commotion around the Ukraine the way people look at you and they'll forget venture free worldwide shipping whether you are a watch kind of sewer or looking for your first time piece of insurance is going to exceed expectations and make you feel more confident remember and are they okay with China sending spies into our country that want demise of America they okay with China building a social credit system where essentially the government monitors everything you do in real time and listeners get an extra fifteen percent off just use the Code Kirk K. I r. k. that's Kirk K. R. K. when you check out so go to Ventura Dot com that's V. I N. C. E. R. O. Watchdogs Tom and use the Code Kirk K. I R. K. fifteen percent off your entire order they've had entire styles that I announced sell up before so before you do anything else do yourself go pick out your favorite accessory you'll not be discipline really watching them much to begin with day now are totally and completely arm-in-arm with the Chinese Communist Party why or there's a billion people in China that watch a lot of NBA and I'm sure that US as partners have been Shero they are offering fifteen percents off your entire order with the Code Kirk K. I R. K. dot com and use Code Kirk K. R. K. for fifteen there was threats about not streaming the NBA into China which would affect the NBA bottom line so the NBA pretends to be one of the most progressive organizations in America they recently outlawed the use of the word owner when referring to proprietor of NBA teams essentially you can't call someone who owns the NBA team the owner despite them putting billions of dollars behind is triggering some of the players when it comes to you know I don't know meal during the Communist National Anthem the lock you up in prison Steve Kerr and Gregg Popovich both ardent anti-trump activists respond every trump tweet have been shockingly silent looms in concentration camps in China and human rights abuses in Hong Kong they're completely Cya why don't you also try and be gay in China see how that works out or why don't you why don't why don't you try to when it comes to recent NBA China controversy as such a joke they all stood by Colin Kaepernick's right to free speech when he protested America and the flag and cops in the NFL but when the doc it's GM Daryl Morey tweeted his support for democracy against the evil Chinese Communist Party which is the greatest evil institutionalized evil in the world that we have seen association how will Americans respond if it's anything like the NFL controversy NBA can expect to see a lot of empty seats at their games this upcoming season anyone listening to this right now playoffs maybe because it's mildly entertaining I will not allow my dollars to support an organization that condones the evil Chinese Communist Party well not to mention stands again read it shows you that those woke warriors don't care anything about free speech they only care about support people who totally oppose America the NBA has become communist just by walking away from this this tweet by Maury I mean it while you're walking away from freedom fighters and by the way freedom fighters that sing our American national anthem in the streets and waiver structure that is built around alleged woke progressivism while they misrepresent reality and hate America but you know it's really amazing to me what's amazing to me is that you are not allowed flag that's exactly the finance of the mainland China I wouldn't expect anything else or anything less out of the National Basketball Association and their entire versus America a moral benevolent charitable productive diverse accepting country that is perfectly okay being woke Lee at the American tweet at the NBA and say there are Communist Association Light Your Jerseys on fire and cancel your season tickets I refuse to watch the National Basketball Association a season I might watch a little bit of the Pan and they get him on camera James Harden at I mean just cowers in fear being told exactly what to do in front of cameras that are rolling right now so anyway so unbelievably disappointed in the National Basketball Association I thought we were I thought I honestly thought we were at a place in our country further beyond that where you would at least be able to say something in support of Hong Kong where he able to say something something in support of the freedom fighters that do not have freedom love to be anti Chinese that is what they consider to be on controversial imagine when they hypocrisy and all of this I mean you've got you now you're not you're not to critique China but you are allowed to critique America I want you to think about this so so when you critique America you heralded as a hero but when you critique China basically with his eyes to the ground trying to look away camera basically says Yeah I love China everything they stand for so I drafted a tweet you'll all be able to see it re tweet if you will Russian do not have fourth amendment rights that do not have second amendment rights that do not have the opportunity to say what they believe it how they believe in fact areas the clip of James Harden that we WANNA play to use the word owner for somebody actually owns a team because it sort of hearkens back to actually thinks that they're saying that they're owning human being where he said he stands with China I want to play this clip of the fool he's a fool James Harden is a fool bought and paid for two and that's that's the irony Chinese speech they locked Muslims and concentration camps based on completely ideological grounds they I mean there's allegations of even still killing unborn children based on not watch another at NBA game because of their embracing of the Chinese Communist Party let's see how many tweets that gets by the time this episode drops you'll be able to tell me better than I'll be able to tell myself and we appreciate the support that they give us individually and as an organization so we love you so that's

President Trump Ukraine Kurt Volker president Charlie Kirk President White House United States European Union United States ambassador to Uk Kirk Volker Apple ambassador Sunland Tom Clancy United States Ambassador Congress Steve Hilton Joe he William Taylor
Four Witnesses Testify Publicly, Three Were On Ukraine Call; Pres. Trump Tweets During Hearing: "A Great Day For Republicans"; Pres. Trump: GOP "Absolutely Killing It" At Impeachment Inquiry

Anderson Cooper 360

57:22 min | 9 months ago

Four Witnesses Testify Publicly, Three Were On Ukraine Call; Pres. Trump Tweets During Hearing: "A Great Day For Republicans"; Pres. Trump: GOP "Absolutely Killing It" At Impeachment Inquiry

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Would you agree that the president has the same same obligation as the mayor as the governor as the member of Congress to not withhold aid unless he gets an investigation Asian into a political rival. Mr Morrison yes sir. I would agree with that hypothetical I would agree. Thanks and we're having a debate here though sides as to how how to read what's plainly before us at the presidential phone call where. The president ignored the work of the advisors in the National National Security Council of talking points instead chose to talk about the Biden's in talk about hundred Biden and ask for an investigation so we are just going to have to debate that but isn't the principle that no person including leading the president is above the law absolutely essential in worth the effort to make certain that we continue to guarantee ambassador Morrison. I haven't been sorry Ambassador Volker. I'm sorry. Yes Mr Morrison sort of the rule. Oh of law central to our democracy. It's so true you know we've had some discussions and challenge from the other side that the president has authority in foreign policy to do what he likes. And in fact he does a recent president by president trump to to take our troops out of Syria and allow the Turkish forces to go in literally meant that some uh-huh Kurdish families went to bed Saturday night and woke up Sunday morning. Pack their kids and fled for their lives. A lot of people including both sides of the aisle totally disagreed with that but the president has the authority to do it. Impulsive is that decision may have have been unwise as it may have been as threatening to our national security. We're not talking about that here in Ambassador Volker. I've listened to your testimony and I take it in. Thank you for making efforts to try to advance. What had been a bipartisan Ukraine policy? Help Ukraine get rid of corruption. Help resist Russian aggression but you came to learn. Painfully is that there was a sidebar Ukraine. Green policy with Giuliani advocate and it appears ambassador. Sunland is very much involved. Is that correct. I don't know Oh everything about that sir. You don't as you have been involved in with the benefit of hindsight while you were working on what you thought was stopping aggression and ending ending route in in in in eliminating corruption. There was a side deal here to get investigations going correct. So yes sir. My objective was purely focused on support for Ukraine national security. And I now have learned through other testimony about the president's statement about investigating Biden and other conversations that I did not know about right in. Thank you for that and thank you for your candour about Vice President Biden's integrity and service but the bottom line here is at the end of the day. We're going to have to make a judgment about what the president was up to. With respect to that request for the favor and and how it repudiated the policy. That was the bipartisan effort and Ukraine and raises questions about he in that hypothetical example gave the mayor held himself to be above the law. I yield back SPALONI. Gentlemen thank you for being here. Basser Volker struck by your opening statement. You moved along way from the testimony you presented to us in October and I know you gave a reason for that. which is that you were in the dark about a a lot of these things? Is that fair to say that is one thing that I learned a lot out of the testimony learned a lot and learned a lot and what you said on page Jay. I'm referring to your statement that you gave this morning this afternoon. that I did not know this quoting. I did not know that. President trump or others had raise raise Vice President Biden with Ukrainians or had conflated the investigation of possible Ukrainian corruption with investigation of the former vice president biden. Right correct. You didn't know Burris my men fight. That's what you're saying right. I had separated the two. I got it well. You didn't know right. I mean you were you were do we have to go through it. I mean you were you were there on May twenty third for the meeting with the president when he said talked to rudy rudy short cared about the investigations which you now know meant by rite. Ed but you missed it on May twenty third. No Sir I understood at the time that One Hundred Biden Vice President Biden's son on had been a board member but you didn't read that as as a request to investigate the binds at the time that's all I'm saying correct July tenth. You're and not one but two meetings in the White House we're ambassador. Sunland raised the investigations. But you didn't know about the Biden's that your testimony. I did not think he was talking about anything. You heard him say investigations and you thought it was inappropriate and the chairman asked you about that you said. Oh it's because I didn't know as the Biden's I just thought it was inappropriate and then I guess when they're in the ward room and ambassador Sunland Ahnlund raised my in the Biden's in two thousand sixteen years. You missed that too as I understand it. Correct right and then of course on July eighteenth aid was withheld and then in August. She spent a good part of the time with this statement with Rudy. Giuliani right. I mean you're the guy making the changes and interacting with Ukrainians you're putting in Rudy's changes changes which included a call for investigating Barack Obama and the twenty sixteen elections which you now know men finds right. They didn't know it at the time. But now we know it right and then on September first. You're in Warsaw. I mean you're in this. You're in Warsaw and you were there. When Ambassador Sunland told Andrea your Mac that he was not going to get security assistance? He wasn't GonNa get a White House meeting unless there was the investigation. And I understand you. Miss is that you're out of the loop. Then that's not correct sir. So I was not in Warsaw at these meetings. Excuse me you were not in worship but you heard about it right after from Sunland is that right. No that's not quite correct. Correct either later I got it so but now we know right now you know what a man and you said. In retrospect I should have seen that connection differently and had I done so I would have raised my own objections. That is correct. And what are the objections. You would've raised her that he would have raised is that people are inflating fleeting investigating the Biden's with investigating these Ukrainian objected to the president. Asking for an investigation of the Biden's. As you sit here now you said I would have raised my own objections. Yes if you knew it was the Biden's if I knew we're talking about investigating Vice President Biden and asking Ukrainians that that would be that would be inappropriate objected to that right and so if you had heard him ask for it on the call and you said in retrospect Ukrainians clearly would've been it would have been confusing right correct confusing the right word. Sir I mean it would've put them in the position of having to do something inappropriate right investigate the by using the right word right because they were clearly hearing something different from the president in one conversation and different from me as a US special representative deform maybe certain understood that investigating Barack Obama and investigating twenty sixteen in fact the binds. Even though you didn't I mean in fact at the time you were talking your Mac and putting those changes in the statement he had talked to Sunland right at the same time and so the point being that they were put in an impossible position they were being asked to do something inappropriate. And you now know that right and you would've you would've race your own objectionable in the phone call to do that. In the conversations that that I had was Ukrainians we were not asking them to do that. And even at that point Ukrainians perhaps with the knowledge of this phone call which I did not have knowledge of at the time time. We just don't want to go there right. And so so. In retrospect though you would have raised objections she would have said. It was inappropriate for the president to do this. and Mr Morrison. Can I just ask Sir so you. I'm stuck I'm stuck on this issue of of you didn't see anything wrong with the call but you went straight to. NFC legal to reported reported. Is that your testimony today. Thank you sir. Thank you MR chairman. Mr Mars Mars than to both of you. Thank you so much for your service. Thanks for being here. It's been a long day. Mr Morrison just a follow up on the question from my colleague. You responded earlier to a series of questions about the call and basically saw nothing wrong with it yet. You skipped your chain of command to go to legal counsel to find out I guess to find out what to do because you are concerned about the political fallout not about anything. Inappropriate wrong with the call. Is that correct ma'am. I don't agree with the premise. Now Okay could you tell me why you felt the need. You saw nothing basically wrong with the call yet. You skipped your chain of command to go to council because of what what was. It's the reason for that. I don't know that again. I don't agree with the premise. Ma'am I don't think I did get my chain of command. If I had seen something wrong I would have who. WHO's your direct report of the Deputy National Adviser and the name of the person? Dr Charles Koppelman DOT government. Did you speak with him. Before you spoke with Legal Counsel Solano that you don't feel you skip your chain of command in doing so going directly to council man if I may. I viewed my engagement with the legal adviser as one ours. We focused on administrative matters. I was interested in locking down. The transcript Fezzet administrative matter. I was interested in making sure that the legal adviser was aware of the call. Because I didn't see anybody from the legal advisers office. And why were you so concerned about the legal adviser being aware of this call that you saw nothing wrong with the substantive content of the call because I I did not see anybody body from the adviser's office in the listening room and I wanted to make sure somebody from the legal advisers office was aware I wanted to make sure it was a senior person. What is it that you want them to be? The aware of specifically I wanted them to to be aware of the call because I wanted them to know what had transpired. What it concerns you to the point where you wanted them to know what had transpired that you went directly to legal counsel to inform them of my my equivalent of the head of? NFC legal was wasn't is John Eisenberg he was. He was my equivalent in that position. I wouldn't go to somebody subordinate to him. I would go to heaven. You testify earlier that you work concern about the political fallout east on the political climate in. DC uh-huh okay all right and so. How long have you supervised lieutenant colonel? then man approximately August approximately July fifteen till October thirty one or so. Okay all right. Thank you Ambassador Volker. You testified that you believe congressional congressional pressure helped unfreeze security systems being released. Do you still stand by that testimony. Today I believe it was important I met with the staff members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. I then solve a letter that several senators signed and sent to chief of Staff Mulvaney and and I was briefed about the possibility of a couple of phone calls from some senior members of the Senate as well. Thank you MR chairman. Yield my remaining time to you. I think the general feeling investor Volker just want to follow up on a couple of questions about Ukrainians not being aware of the eight being withheld. You're aware I'm sure. The testimony of Colonel Van men that in fact he was Contacted by someone within the created aided embassy who is concerned about the whole prior to its becoming public. I I was not aware of that but I I take that. Are you aware of Ms Crofts. Testimony interest groups. That have been released. That in fact Ukraine's found out quite quickly after the whole was placed in July that she was impressed with Ukrainian tradecraft and that the crane inside a reason to keep it silent not make it public. I saw that inner testimony. You don't have any reason to question whether in fact Demos Acuerdo no I don't so the Ukrainians I did find out before it was public at least according to these two witnesses but nevertheless decreeing certainly found out it was public public when it was published in the newspaper. Right that is correct in August. Twenty ninth and at the time they found out from the newspaper they still hadn't the White House meeting and they still didn't have the aid and at that point they had already had the conversation with the president in which she asked them to investigate. The Biden's correct that is correct Christian Murphy and good evening to both of you and thank you for your service Ambassador Volker on page seven of your opening statement today you said since Events surrounding your earlier testimony October third quote unquote a great deal of additional information perspectives. Have come to light. I have learned many things that I did not know at the time of the events in question correct. Yes yes that is correct that includes conversations that occurred as well as meetings that occurred of which you weren't part correct. That's correct sir. You obviously were not a part of the July twenty fifth call. Isn't that right. That is correct. You were not aware that ambassador Sunlen. According to your opening putting statement had a call with President Trump on July twenty sixth correct that is correct on September. First you weren't present for the sidebar or meeting between Ambassador Sunland and special adviser. Yitzhak is in that right that is correct. And you certainly weren't part of the phone call between Ambassador Taylor and Ambassador Sunland in which Ambassador Sunlen. According to multiple multiple people now said that everything a White House meeting as well as military aid were dependent on public announcements of investigations nations. Isn't that right. That is correct. And certainly sir. You weren't part of the phone call. On September seventh between Ambassador Sunland and president trump in which president trump insisted that presence. Alinsky go to a Mike and Publicly announced investigations of President Trump's domestic rivals right correct act. And certainly you weren't part of the September eighth phone call between Ambassador Sunland and ambassador. I'm sorry president trump trump where president trump again insists that these announcements have to happen. Isn't that right. That is correct. Sir You say that you weren't a witness To any kind of quid pro quo or conditionality between military assistance and investigations. What someone called missiles for misinformation information today isn't that right? That is correct but sir you weren't present for many if not all of the phone calls and conversations were these alleged instances of quid pro quo occurred. Isn't that right. A that is correct. Sir Let me turn your attention to another topic. That's come up today or actually came up last Friday. You have high regard for ambassador. You've Donovan. Correct yes I do. I presume that you were aware that as the astor was testifying. President trump actually tweeted very disparaging disparaging remarks about her right. I saw that moment. And I presume that you disapprove of those types of tweets. I don't think that's appropriate. You've supervised many many people over the years during your career in the foreign service right. Yes I have and you would never do that to one of your direct reports awards or anybody who worked in your organization right now. I would not. It's just wrong. I believe that Even when you feel like you need to criticize criticism is is private praises public and I also believe that you're a man of honor and you would not attack a veteran. You would not attack someone someone who is currently serving in the military. WHO's doing their duty correct? I respect the service of our members uniform. In fact there's certain man that we both admire the late Senator John McCain who unfortunately was attacked not only when he was alive but after he died by the current president. Isn't that right. That is true and I I presume that you would disapprove of all of those attacks on John McCain right so I know John John I knew John McCain very very well for a very long time. He's an honorable man and Very much award hero for this country. Well today Sir as has Lieutenant Colonel Veneman was testifying. Our president used the official twitter account of the office. The president to attack Lieutenant. Colonel admins credibility. I presume you don't approve of those types of tweets. Either do you. I was not aware of that and as with embassador. Uganda which not appropriate. Thank you sir. Thank you for your service and thank you Mr Morrison for yours. As well concludes the member questioning. I now recognize ranking member for any closing comments. He has thank you as the first day of this week's impeachment ATV marathon draws to a close. I'd like to remind the American people what we're watching. The public hearings are the culmination of three years. There's of incessant Democrat efforts to find a crime to impeach the president. I tried to manufacture evidence that the president colluded with Russia to accomplish this task the DNC and the Clinton campaign worked with a former British spy. Christopher Steele still a symbol they dossier a false information. mation alleging the trump campaign colluded Russia. That dossier was largely assembled from Russian and Ukrainian sources that the Democrat contractors worked with next day prime. Their hopes on the work of Robert Muller Muller spent two years and millions of taxpayer dollars seeking evidence of a crime that we know wasn't committed Muller's failure. Failure was devastating devastating blow to Democrats who clearly hoped his work to be the basis for the removal of the president. It today we are witnessing the Ukraine hoax the direct to TV sequel to the Russia collusion hoax. The plot of the Ukraine hoax is hard to follow it shifts from day to day. I the Democrats claim they had evidence of quid pro quo than extortion and witness intimidation. Now Democrats are pinning their hopes on bribery. Like any good Holloway. Hollywood production Democrats needed today screen test. Before releasing their latest attack on the president they leverage the secrecy of the House Intelligence Committee to interview a cast of characters in preparation for these public hearings. Or the media's enthusiastic support. They built a narrative based on selectively leaked testimony speaker. Pelosi the Democrats on this committee are seeking the truth. They would want to know the answers to the following questions that they refused to ask. Ask To what extent did the whistle blower coordinate with the Democrats on this committee and ORS staff. What is the full extent of Ukraine's election meddling against the trump campaign pain in two thousand sixteen? Why debris SMA Higher Hunter Biden? And what did he do for them and did his position impact in a US government actions. Under the Obama Administration American people were promised a grave and somber impeachment inquiry. Instead they got the salacious spice spring comedy that they've been working on for three years night. See in the morning I thank the gentleman and I thank you both for your testimony today. I would highlight a couple of things about what we've heard this afternoon. Tune first investor. Volker your written testimony in which you say in hindsight I now understand that other saw the idea of investigating possible corruption involving Ukrainian company Barack Obama as equivalent to investigating former revised President Biden. I saw them as very different. The former being appropriate and unremarkable the latter being unacceptable. In retrospect you said I should have seen that connection differently and had I done so I would have raised my own objections ambassador. We appreciate your willingness to amend earlier testimony in light of what you now know and I think you've made it very clear that knowing what you do today that in fact the president sought an investigation of his political rival Vice President Biden. You would not have countenanced. Any any effort to encourage the Ukrainians to engage in such conduct. I appreciate also that you were able. To debunk I hope for the last time. The idea that Joe Biden did something wrong when he in accordance with US policy sought to replace a corrupt prosecutor persecutor something that not only the US State Department wanted not only the European Union wanted and not only the IMF wanted but was the consensus position of the United United States national security infrastructure. You didn't get a lot of questions about that today. As other witnesses did because I think you effectively said that was all nonsense. We we appreciate your candor about that more than I think what is most remarkable about your testimony is the acknowledgement that immediately. After the vice president met with presence. Alinsky in Warsaw. You witnessed Gordon Sunland meeting with Andre Earmark Doc. Top Advisor to presidents Linski and then immediately thereafter silent told you that he had informed the Ukrainians that if they wanted that four hundred million alien in military aid they were going to have to do those investigations that the president wanted. And you were later informed and this is also significant as you've testified testify here today that the investor Sunland had a subsequent conversation with President Trump and informed you that it wasn't going to be enough for the Ukrainian prosecutor-general to announce the investigations. The president wanted presidents. Alinsky had to do it himself if he wanted to get that aid let alone the meeting in the White House. Now you've been asked to a pine on the meaning of the term bribery although you weren't asked Pine on the meeting of the terms high crimes and misdemeanors meters but bribery for those watching at home is the conditioning of official acts in exchange for something of personal value. Oh you official acts. We're talking about here. Are White House meeting. The president's Alinsky desperately sought and as you have acknowledged ambassador. Volker was is deeply important to this country at war with Russia to show the United States. Had this new president's back that meeting was important. That meeting is an official act. The military assistance is even more significant because Ukrainians are dying every day in their war with Russia. And so the withholding military assistance to get these investigations instigations which you now have acknowledged. Bastard Volcker was wrong for the president to request the idea withholding that military aid to get these political investigations should be anathema to repugnant to every American because it means the sacrifice not just of Ukrainian national security security but American national security for the interest of the president personally and politically now my republican colleagues all. They seemed to be upset about with. This is not that. The president sought an investigation of his political rival not that he withheld a White House meeting and four hundred million dollars dollars in aid. We all pass on a bipartisan basis to pressure Ukraine to do those investigations their objection is he got caught. There objection is that someone blew the whistle. Oh and they would like this whistleblower identified and the president wants this whistleblower punished. That's their objection. Not that the president gauged in this conduct but then he got caught their defenses. Well he ended up releasing the aid. Guess after he got caught. That doesn't make this any less odious. Americans may be watching this and asking. Why should the United States care about Ukraine? Why why should we care about Ukraine? And this was the import I think of the conversation. The now infamous conversation in that Kiev restaurant with Gordon Sauna and holding the phone away away from his head because the president was talking so loud. What is the president asking that? Call the day after the now infamous call he had was the Linski. What is he asking that cell? Phone McCall not whether the rata had passed some new anti corruption reform now are going to do the investigation meaning meaning into by and silence. Answer is they're going to do it. They'll do essentially anything the president wants. What's more telling the conversation? I think that song has with the Foreign Service officer homes afterwards in which the President says basically Donald Trump. It doesn't give a expletive about Ukraine. He cares about the big things. Mr Homeless says well Ukraine's at war with Russia the Russians. That's kind out of a big thing and silence. Answer is known. He cares about big things that affect his personal interests. This is why Americans should care about this. Americans should care about what happened. Store allies were dying but Americans should care about their own national social security and their own president and their own constitution and they will need to ask themselves as we will have to ask ourselves in Congress. Are we prepared to accept that president. I'd States can leverage official acts military assistance White House meetings to get had an investigation of a political rival. We prepared to say well you know I guess that's just what we should expect it to present the United States. I don't think think we WANNA go there. I don't think our founding fathers would have wanted to go there indeed. I think when the founding fathers provided a remedy that remedy comedy being impeachment they had the very concerned that the president had states may betray the national security interests of the country for personal interests. It's they put that remedy in the constitution. Not because they wanted to Willy Nilly overturn elections no because they wanted a powerful anti-corruption mechanism when that corruption came from the highest office in the land. We're adjourned. I asked the audience to please allow the witnesses to leave the room before they exit in a marathon day of impeachment testimony now on the books and once again we have learned a lot that we didn't know when the day began in fact from one of the four witnesses who were questioned today the prisoners former special Ukraine envoy Kurt Volker we heard testimony that differed from what he himself freeze previously had told lawmakers behind closed doors and from Tim Morrison a former. SC Stafford. There was both a benign assessment of the President's July twenty fifth call with the the President Ukraine but he did go straight to. NFC attorneys to inform them out and restrict access to there was also his recollection that Gordon Sunland win the ambassador to the EU who testifies tomorrow told him that he was pressing Ukrainians to have he said there prosecutor general make a statement with respect back to the investigations as a condition of having the freeze on military aid lifted. And about that July twenty fifth call which Moore's lawyers about. He told them that they should restrict access to it. Morrison claimed it ended up on a compartment. It'd classified server by mistake. Resulting said of what he called an administrative. Error her lieutenant. Colonel Alexander Van Nuys Decorated Army lieutenant. Colonel and Soviet refugees spoke about his actions after listening in on the call which he characterized as inappropriate and improper and the White House responded with tweeds casting doubts on his competence and his loyalty. It has been a long day joining us our political team and our legal team John Dean. Jeffrey Toobin David axelrod. Gloria Borger also. Carry Cordeiro Jen. PSAKI and former Senator Rick Santorum Let's just get some quick thoughts from everybody. Here may interrupt as well because we expect to hear you're both from Devon Nunez and Adam Schiff right outside at the podium so what was most striking to me was Ambassador Volker. Why thank was very honest in saying? Let's him leaving the building. He is leaving and he came across as a character witness for Joe Biden and said that. I'm sorry I didn't know. At the time that burris Ma the energy company equalled Biden and I proceeded seeded without knowing that and now I'm sorry that I that I didn't know that and the second thing of course was the Lieutenant Colonel Vin man who was so so striking in and proclaiming his patriotism to this country and saying that he reported this because he felt effectively that it was unpatriotic attic and that it the president's phone call was stunning to him and then he was attacked by the White House as well as by some people on that committee. You you know Volker this. I thought he was very interesting. I think that he was in part trying to clean up the record for himself he also I think was trying to clean up his reputation. A little bit here. And I think what you have there is someone who genuinely wanted to get aid flowing to the Ukrainians Gen- genuinely wanted to get a meeting eating and played along with all these characters to try and get that done. And I think that's really the story that he was telling her but one last point on this I step back and try. And look at it from a political PERSP-. Oh here ginger politics says he now. Why Chairmanship wanted to put them in the afternoon. I mean and you also see why we from the very remember ambassador. Volker was the very first witness we deposed and we called for the release of his transcript and getting that out for the American people to seek he can he. He's the definitive source on this. He was the special envoy. And I think you saw him tell tell the story. A The one part I think is so important. He even told the Ukrainians when they did learn late August. The eight had been held. He said don't worry about it. We'll get this worked out and that's exactly what happened. I've been in a got worked out without any promise commitment announcement start of any type of investigation so this was a very good day for the truth. A very good day for the president of the United States Very good day for the country and the sad thing is I said hearing these two individuals are no longer working working in our government. Because they're the kind of public service Servants that That you appreciate Mr Windsor. So some of the important facts thanks to to recap ambassador. Volker says it on July twenty fifth call that prisons Alinsky doesn't know that there's a hold on eight. He gets a readout from both the. US side Auden and the Ukraine side. And there's no reference to a quid pro quo. Extortion bribery. A hold on eight July Twenty six presidents Alinsky meets with him Basser Zor Sunlen and Volker. There's no reference to quid pro quo. Bribery extortion a hold on eight. It over the course of the next several weeks ambassador Volker is infrequent contact with the Ukrainians and there is no reference in any of those conversations to hold on aid quid pro quo. Extortion bribery in any way shape or form. It's not until the end of August. Ukraine reads it and Politico on August twenty ninth. They then get confirmation. There's a hold on the aid gets released shortly thereafter and guess what Ukraine had to do in order to get that hold lifted absolutely. Nothing Ukraine. Didn't have to do absolutely anything anything to get that. Hold on aid released shortly after they had that confirmation end of August something else. That's really important. Is that the Democrats and some in the media like to just say that the Baristas Jesse issue is just totally debunked even though Barista is a corrupt Ukrainian company run by corrupt Ukrainian oligarch hiring hunter Biden for by Hunter Biden's own admission solely because his last name solely because he's the vice president's son at least fifty thousand using dollars a month no Ukraine experience. No energy experience his saw his father is meanwhile the person running point literally the most conflicted personnel. Listen out in the Obama Zeldin talking. I just want to get some quick feedback continuing David Exe Ron. Yeah well what I was going to say is I think the facts are not getting better for the president here. And I think and this is why you see Devon Nunez clothes every day with his assault on the process and I think it probably plays Rick can speak to a probably will probably plays with the base of the Republican Party and for now with the president needs to hold the Republicans lukens in Congress. And make sure the Senate doesn't slide on him and so they're playing a I. I think Democrats are trying to create a fact pattern here and it's been pretty effective. The Republicans are trying to Play a political game and it may be effective for them. Today was a graveyard for Republican talking talking points. Let's start with three of them. One the idea that all the information here was just second hand well to the morning was devoted almost entirely to the president's phone phone call of June twenty-fifth where July twenty fifth where he the analysis the detailed analysis of what the president resident said just established how clearly he was doing an exchange aid meeting in return for investigation of Biden. The second point the idea that this couldn't be a exchange because Ukraine didn't know that the aid made in the meeting were being withheld because of the failures Jordan said that it not true Vin. Men said it wasn't true. Volker are basically said. It wasn't true and third the idea that what's this big deal because Ukraine got the money. Anyway you Ukraine didn't have to do it investigations negations. Eldon just said but the reason the reason that the president had to give the aid is because he got got caught and the the whistle blower the timing with a whistleblower. Complaint comes in September ninth. They get notice that they've been busted did and it's only then that the aid is released so the idea that out of the goodness of their hearts they decided. Well you know after all we do want WanNa send what aid to protect the Russians. It's not true. The reason the aid was released is because they got caught in this scheme. John Pin Difference to me Anderson. It is today it became very clear that as these hearings are progressing. They're becoming much more. Partisan Republicans were very civil in the early days. It's it's not so much today and this is not a a predecessor. Successor successor of Watergate. This is a whole new breed of investigation and impeachment inquiry. And that was really striking to me today. And what more polarized more. More polarized is. Yes I thought the two hearings really were very different. The morning hearing in the afternoon I mean in the morning Jennifer Williams and Lieutenant Colonel Vitamin and they are individuals who did not have direct contact with the president so they couldn't really speak to his exact ten and what he was orchestrating orchestrating behind the scenes. They talk about what they heard on the call and their reaction to it with ambassador. Volker we get closer to the core group group. That was working more in the president's direct interest And was in touch with the president personally Even though Ambassador Voelker then I think really I agree with David is trying to rehabilitate himself. In some way. Trying to present himself in a way where he can be looking forward and and and doesn't want to be known as being part of the activities. That Rudy Giuliani and Gordon. Sunland were perhaps doing I and so I think there is an enormous amount of anticipation. Going into Gordon's Ahnlund's testimony tomorrow. Because he was in touch with the president and he was working with Rudy Guiliani and he was working with the State Department and so he he also said a lot of a lot of people. I mean is. You'RE GONNA make the argument that well. Actually I would just kinda bragging. I really didn't have constant contact with President. I couldn't call the president anytime I wanted. which is what he told some people maybe two? He said he couldn't remember if he had made one or two malls and when we heard the confirmation today that he had bragged that he could be in touch with the president anytime he wants. I was struck today. By the fact that these two that Morrison and Volker sure there were the Republicans selections. That's who they wanted to be there. Witnesses and yes. They tried to defend the president. They tried to be on Republican talking points time but they basically acknowledged that everything that was done was wrong and they didn't know about it as Gloria said now I think that completely strains credibility to suggest what's that Volcker somebody who's been in Washington for decades running a think tank politically connected didn't know this isn't about him but you know ultimately coming away from today. They said Biden anything wrong. They said that the Ukraine of crowd strike is a conspiracy theory and they both acknowledged that the president of the United States should not not be seeking political dirt on an opponent. Did you believe Morrison. When he said the reason after he got he heard the call he immediately went to attorneys Ernie's he didn't go to complement? Who was superior not because he said it was because he was afraid it was going to leak or it might spread out and he hadn't? We've seen an attorney in the situation room a monitoring note that makes no sense. I will say no fence to the lawyers on the panel. But you don't go to a lawyer unless you think of something is wrong in the White House in the NFC or if you're working in any portion of the White House And he clearly heard something that he was concerned about for understandable reasons and he reported to a lawyer. The only thing wrong here is he didn't acknowledged that Senator Santorum your thoughts with the followed Morrison. He said that he did not also press Ukrainians ever about what the president had said on the call. Not because he said he didn't agree with it. I didn't say that that's why he didn't press i. You might find it hard to believe but I don't see it the way you folks said I look at it from a much bigger picture. Perspective of how the American in public is looking at this and I think if you looked at the witnesses today the witnesses last week what you see is that everybody involved in Ukraine policy. Let's see was on the same page. I mean you had listen. Everyone was saying this is our policy Ukraine by the way the president put all those people in place. Everyone out about well. Well every one of the people that are on there all had the same thing which was to change the Obama policy which now Democrats are crying as horrific and awful policy that was leaving Ukrainians without any way to defend themselves and finally we have a group of people at the State Department and at the White House who are supporting Ukraine. We have them in in writing for Ukraine and now the Democrats are saying well. You know this is wonderful. But what you're saying is that the policy shifted shifted because this lethal aid that was not awarded by the Obama Administration is now has been awarded by the trump administration. And that's really important Ukraine right. It is yeah so it gives them quite a bit of leverage the president if he wants something from them if he holds up the year before this eight pack this is not the first eight leave understood. The the reality is. Here's my point. The point is that I'd like to compare this to really the obstruction case against the president in a report what you had in the obstruction because you had a bunch of adults around there in the end the president spouting off saying Oh. I wish we should go after this guy. We should go after this this guy. They never did why because he has adults in the room. Who put up with his? You know wild ideas and then they do the right thing. That's exactly what happened here when we're not off and say I want to know act. You know what happened here. is they all followed. What the president's direction was to to hold out this aid in exchange for a now? They were days away from doing that. They didn't do it because they were caught. You heard every single one. You've heard the Vice-president Vice-president you've heard the secretary of state all say that they were working toward getting the president who as we all know is not a big foreign aid guy and doesn't want him involved themself shooting wars anywhere and so the idea that this was the only thing when his natural inclination is to be against these things in the first place I think it but he but here's the the thing I don't understand what the argument two things one. You said that everybody was on the same page. They actually weren't they. Were on the same page that they oppose. They thought it was a bad idea and not good that the president brought up right right also. They weren't all on the same page executing this important foreign policy in fact they have testified that there is this whole if they were actually using the arms the levers of the US government that would be one thing but they're using rudy. Giuliani partisan. I just said all of the people. That testified defy. The last few days are on the same page. I would agree with you. Rudy Giuliani's oil. We also heard today was that they were. They were all on the same page in Bewilderment as to why this aid was held up go back to a president who is prone to sane derived things and things that are problematic matic but in the end what he said this is what he did. He froze the well and again. That's that you say he did. I would say he froze the eight for a variety bride of reasons. You say and again. It's about whether the present the band no one's asked to wait. I'll give give give you say well he shifts say that Carson the shifts say that well vocal vocal boker cleared up vice-president. How did he clear boy? I know Joe by a good guy never do it. That's not clearing anybody that's there it also wait wait why did he then. Why did Gordon Sunland go to the Ukrainian officials Burma and have this conversation? The day after trump had the conversation with Zielinski about the investigation and aid. Why then that happened? Look they goes back to making just because aid and and and talked about in. The same conversation doesn't mean they were one was traded for the other LE has never been proven Lucho Volker when he's sort of amended his prior testimony in his opening statement. Let's play the I did not know. The president trump were others had raised vice president Biden with Ukrainians where conflated the investigation of possible all Ukrainian corruption with investigation of the former vice president. In retrospect for Ukrainians it would clearly have been confusing in hindsight. I now understand that. Others saw the idea of investigating possible corruption involving Ukrainian company Burris as equivalent to investigating former president vice-president Biden. I saw them is very very different. The former being appropriate remarkable the latter being unacceptable. In retrospect I should have seen that connection differently and had I done so I would have raised my own objections. It's so rich strains credulity honestly that you don't know that Burris may equals. I'm sure Sunland will say this tomorrow a a- as well but he had conversations with Rudy. Giuliani maybe Rulli. Giuliani only mentioned breeze. Ma maybe you could look it up. Maybe you could. Also Alzheimer's is a corrupt company. But that's what they will say they will say it's a corrupt company we on more corrupt company but why was Sunlen talking about deliverables. What what were the deliverables here Why was why did he did? Sunland say to this group of people. Oh the president only cares about by. He doesn't he doesn't really care about Ukraine. And these were the guys they were sitting in the Oval Office with the President Volker Sunlen Perry when the president said to them talk to rudy and he thought that was okay Ambassador Volker also referenced the Twenty Sixteen The investigators the twenty sixteen investigations. The only thing that means is the crowd straight conspiracy there. There's nothing else that means he. He was fine with that when he was working on. Behalf of the administration was fine with getting through pushing that with the Ukrainians today he said there was no truth to it so I mean his own testimony was a little all over the place. Want to check in with the CNN. Jim Acosta who's at the White House because again like Friday Today was marked by attacks on witness from sixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue Time Ronald Lieutenant. Colonel Vitamin E. Anderson was a bit warm unit coming from the president. Today I will tell you. Talk to administration ministration official Earlier this eating responding to the day's testimony who described the day as some somewhere between tie and a win So that is what. They're hanging their their hat on over here at the White House but Anderson the president did not directly attack. Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Women in the same way. He went after Maria Ivanovich last Friday the former Ukraine ambassador acid and that came as a relief to people inside the White House. I talked to administration official. WHO said they were bracing for this to happen? But when the president went to the microphones or was in front of the microphones earlier today in a cabinet meeting and talked a little bit about Alexander Vitamin and talked about that moment during the testimony earlier today where somebody one of the Republican members refer to him. As Mr Van Mini. He snapped back. Let's lieutenant colonel veteran president references that and inside the White House. They were glad that the president had a chance to get off of his chest because they were worried he was going to be tweeting about them all day. Long Jim Acosta. Thanks very much. We'll have more throughout the night We're also going to be on from eleven to you are two one. Am so set your clock just on this point of That the presence had a big foreign aid guy and that's absolutely true. He's that's not really a big anti-corruption guy that hasn't been a big priority of his one thing we learned today is that he's never raised. He never raised in previous calls the issue of corruption and even the call that he had on the twenty fifth the only things he raised were crowd source but then the Biden so it kind of begs the question. Is He really concerned about corruption eruption in in Ukraine or is concerned about these volcker was asked about Russia about Saudi Arabia Turkey and obviously the president Turkey just visited. Come back back to the to the simple fact that everybody that he's employed at the State Department at NSA are all pushing Ukraine on corruption. So the answer is yes and you can say well the president personally president look at the prison species ministration does lots of things he never talks about talks about rob you. He talks about the meeting. He doesn't talk about all of this argument. This argument is insane. You can argue that. The president of the United States is words. Do not matter. So they don't when or that he's just sort of spouting off or he has his own views. But actually you're talking about it when you're talking about issues choose of and they held up the ADA. Jennifer Williams testified this morning that they had absolutely no idea. Everybody was compounded of why the was held up and said that it was from the White House chief-of-staff which is Mick Mulvaney. Who Won't come testify? The president's words matter and it it cannot be that on one hand. We're supposed to take him seriously as the commander of chief and the person who's running the government and on the other hand has defenders say it doesn't matter what he said ignore all that other crazy doesn't make reality is we ignore about eighty to ninety percent of what the President says because because because I mean look at look at his tweets we ignore most of those things he tweets out trump trump trump. So your position is. He shouldn't be impeached because he's surrounded by people who are less corrupt opt and crazy crazy. He learned this is a man who's been under attack for three years as an illegitimate president with with a congress looking to impeach him from the day they got got in and so yeah is he a bit I would say he's he gets a little. He gets a little Mitch. Mitch McConnell the his primary objective. As soon as Barack Obama was elected was that that Barack Obama should be a one term president in return. He didn't Obama should've gone to Canada and set. It should have gone into Canada and said give me dirt on John McCain or I'll end relations I mean what what he has political opponents tough luck. That's how it works well. It's a different political opponents. Who Want who want to fight it out and those who are day? Let's let's let's. Let's go back to that way. This whole thing started the day. After the after Muller testified the president called the president of Ukraine and specifically asked him to open an investigation on his his political opponent. I'm telling you I appreciate that you. You're a you're you're. You're a strong enable advocate. But you if this were another president another you know you would have a different view of that I I was I look I would say that. What the president did and I'll use the term that vocals? It was inappropriate. I agree I think it wasn't appropriate. I don't think you should have asked about a binding. Shouldn't have mentioned in the conversation. Should it be impeached for doing so. No you know what. Here's what politically that that would be. That would be the smart place for Republicans to go instead. It was in a pro understand but there are very few rules. Say San Dan. You know you have a committee full of people there who are the president's chief supporters in the house who are arguing that up as down in down as up and everything was fine and there's nothing nothing to see here. That isn't a good argument. You know even even Mike Pence's aid thought it was unusual as she put it and and Morrison went to the F. issue. The one who's now been disavowed as being she's been doing a State Department so enough people thought that it was weird that it was put in file thirteen because they didn't want people to see it so it was beyond appropriate. You know I disagree with it gets beyond appropriate. I think I think we have a president who does a lot of outrageous things and it's outrage as well as I said. There's a lot of outrageous things I said this in this case it was inappropriate. The reality is as I said before. He has a bunch of people around to make sure that we stay on the straight and narrow. Well we're GONNA take a quick break. We're going to be back eleven. PM for another special edition. Two Three six eight thousand Alice's the hearings continue break Cuomo. Prime time is next. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow grow download the Mar- tech podcast Mar Tech. podcast tells the stories of real world marketers use technology to generate growth and achieve business business career success from advertising to software as a service to data getting brands authentically integrated the content performs better than TV. The advertising typical life span of an article is about twenty four to thirty six hours for reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call an action. 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president Vice President Biden Ambassador Volker Ukraine President Trump White House vice president United States Ambassador Sunland Rudy Giuliani Barack Obama Sunland Tim Morrison Biden Congress US State Department NFC official Alinsky Mr Morrison
Two Former Ambassadors Weigh In On A Week Of Impeachment Proceedings

1A

30:35 min | 9 months ago

Two Former Ambassadors Weigh In On A Week Of Impeachment Proceedings

"This is one A.. I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington. The impeachment hearings continue today as before we can expect some dramatic and revealing testimony. Mostly from America's diplomats career and politically weekly appointed employees of the state and defence departments have laid out. How president trump's dealings with Ukraine's president affected their work representing and protecting the United States dates? The Foreign Service doesn't much attention but it has in these hearings including testimony from key figures like ambassador. Gordon Sunland what did we learn from them this week. And how will it affect the impeachment process joining us from WJ CT in Jacksonville. Florida is Nancy Soderberg a former deputy national security the advisor and former ambassador to the UN Ambassador Soderberg. Welcome to one A.. Thank you so much for having me Ambassador Soderberg. Let's start with Gordon Sunland. Who is the US ambassador to the European Union? He testified yesterday and said that he was following the president's orders with the full knowledge of other top officials like Secretary of State Mike Pompeo Ao. When he Mr Sunlen Ambassador Sunland was pressuring the Ukrainians to investigate the president's political rivals? He called it a clear quid pro quo and he began his testimony in a way. That really did the White House. No favors I know that members of this committee frequently frame these complicated issues in the form form of a simple question was there a quid pro quo as I testified previously with regard to the requested White House call and the White House meeting leading. The answer is yes. Mr Giuliani conveyed to secretary. Perry Ambassador Volker and others that president trump wanted a public statement from presidents Alinsky committing to investigations of Barista and the two thousand sixteen election. Mr Giuliani Elhiani expressed those requests directly to the Ukrainians. and Mr Giuliani also expressed those requests directly to us. We all understood that these prerequisites for the White House call and the right White House meeting reflected president trump's desires and requirements ambassador Soderberg. How Big Gadiel was this revelation? It wasn't the first time that we've heard witnesses say this. But how big a deal was it. That Gordon Sunland sent us a very big McDill. This is an individual who clearly had a direct line to the president as opposed to you know hearsay. He has first evidence and very clearly stated The president held up critical security eight and a White House meeting in exchange for political favors. So it it put a very a colorful picture on a story and a puzzle that the impeachment hearings have clearly Put together there was also a tone from him investor Soderbergh in this phrase that kept coming coming up which is two plus two is four this idea that you. There's this effort to kind of paint a super clear picture of a precise definition of an exact legal characterization accusation of a quid pro quo. What investors Sunland seem to be saying was like Duh? Do you have a brain in your head. Do we need to spell it out for you. Of course it was there. And I haven't haven't really heard anyone kind of put it that bluntly yet. He's the first one to put it that that bluntly and he's gone on a very interesting personal journey he started out out not a not supporting president. Trump donated heavily to the inauguration. Got This position for which he was you know a novice at being an ambassador ambassador Smart Guy and he learned quickly but I think it was. I think increasingly shocking to him to realize that he was part of this extortion campaign against so Ukrainians which he only learned Midway through the process and I think one of the reasons he's testifying now against the strong objections of the White House and his own state. Eight department is to demonstrate that he did not view himself as part of the six Dourson campaign and wanted to make clear that he would never have been part of that had he known what was going on. And that's one of the risk of putting political ambassadors in sensitive positions because their their new They can be as smart as anyone on but it takes a while to figure out the art of diplomacy and that's why the testimony of so many brave courageous career. Nonpartisan officials has been in a very dramatic Parade this week. I personally know many of the people who testified today they are career professionals channels and are standing up for. What's right in our country? They know right from wrong. They're not partisan and I think the Republicans on the committee who have have attacked their patriotism attacked them personally and even the president tweeting at ambassador. IANOVICH wall she was testifying is a low point in American history. She was asked about that during her testimony and asked if she wiped consider that intimidation or a threat and she's basically. Yeah that's that's kind of the case one of the most the the most powerful man on earth criticizing you publicly very intimidating. And it's just wrong. I I personally am hoping that the Persons of the year become this year for Time magazine. His career officials who stood up and called they basically are speaking truth to power and that's Important to be recognized by all Americans. It's interesting though with ambassador. Soderberg he was kind of part of the mainstream name of the other case making that the Democrats were doing. I was interested to see and it doesn't seem like they did this if they were going to use him as a political appointee a guy who gave a bunch of money to the trump campaign and so he got this job. As one of the weak spots in America's diplomacy that allowed this so called shadow diplomacy to take place because he's a neophyte because he kinda didn't realize until he was already in it it allows Rudy Giuliani and others to kind of do this diplomacy the and put him in a position. He's not meant to be in but he didn't become a fall guy at least not that much. Well it's not unusual for the president to buck. US policy and have officials. Do I have. I was in government for a long long time as a political appointee and we occasionally bucked the career folks. What's unusual about what president trump has done is that he rejected rejected the individual The Principals Committee the National Security Council policy process. He had talking points he was supposed to promote American interest and frankly just diverted jettisoned all of that and brought in Rudy Giuliani for a parallel policy. Which frankly was not in the the? US interest and that's what's unusual about. That wasn't powerful enough to run this on his own. He was one of the three Amigos. And I don't think Rick Perry who we have not it yet heard from the secretary of Energy I was part of the COGGIN. This wheel unknowingly. As well by the way the tweets that were referring to regards Mariya Ivanovich. The President tweeted quote everywhere. Marie Ivanovich went turned bad. She started off in Somalia. How'd that go then fast? Forward to Ukraine where the new Ukrainian president spoke unfavourably about out her in my second phone call with him it is a US. PRESIDENTS ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO APPOINT AMBASSADORS THEY call it serving at the pleasure of the president the US now has a very strong and powerful foreign policy much different than preceding administrations. He'd been preceding. It is called quite simply America first with all of that however I have done far more for Ukraine than Oh meaning o Obama one correction to that the president does not have the right to appoint whoever whoever he wants he has the power to appoint whoever he wants and that power comes with responsibility which the mainstream of this impeachment hearing ambassador. I wonder I wonder if that is part of what we establish this week. Are we any closer to establishing that. The president misused his power his privilege to you conduct American foreign policy or are we still kind of where we were. I first of all this is not an America first policy. It's a trump I policy. He put his own. Personal interest is on political interest ahead of a relationship with a key. US ally a country. That's under attack pack every day from Russia and that is reprehensible and his critiques of a career dedicated foreign service officer Sir Basseterre Marie Ivanovich. Who took on some very tough post and good for her for having the courage to go to Somalia? That's one of the toughest post us and to have him tweeting as she's testifying. Is I think an end up being one of the Articles of impeachment is intimidation of witnesses. They've denied the right right for those with firsthand. Knowledge like Mick Mulvaney Giuliani president. Mike Mike Mike Pence will see if John Bolton APPEARS THERE'S A. He's I think on the verge of that. What what is clearly established in these very dramatic hearings that I think many Americans have been less? It's productive this week because they're all tuning in it's quite riveting. Is that the president of the United States shunted aside the policy process of career ear officials to have a policy with rain where we increase the aid which president trump is the one who gave them lethal aid and then he went ahead and held it up and it's very clear black and white that the President United States held up not only a White House meeting which is critical to demonstrate to the Russians that we have have the cranium back but also the critical aid that trump himself had increased simply for a political investigation into the Biden's now the Republicans are filling in a narrative that is simply false. There was no Ukrainian interference in our elections. And if you look at ambassador. Excuse me Fiona Hill's testimony her opening statement says very clearly. I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize alternative narrative that the Ukrainian government is a US adversary and that Ukraine Not Russia attacked us in twenty any sixteen that is a narrative that is being put forward by some EU Ukrainian slash Russian really mafia bosses. That WANNA get back into their hands in the till and I think that's what is going to have to vote. Republicans are GonNa have to decide. Are they going to continue that narrative. Taber tell the truth. It's worth noting that ranking member Devon Nunez responded to that opening statement this morning it was published before Fiona Hill gave it so he kind of responded to it before she said it out loud. How will continue in just a moment and we'll get to more of your questions about the impeachment hearings I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one a. from WMU and NPR Support for NPR and the following message. Come from Rossi's Robbie's are the perfect gift for the women in your life. Who was always? He's on the go and loves a good balance of fashion and function. Rossi's are carefully crafted shoes made from re purposed plastic water bottles they're stylish available in a wide array. Hey of colors and patterns and fully machine washable best of all. They're comfortable and have zero break in period plus enjoy free shipping free returns and free exchanges. Check out their the seasonal styles at R. O.. T. H. Y. S. dot com slash one as the impeachment clock is ticking in the United States. Ukraine is in a race race to fix a broken system before time runs out. It's just frightening because it's plus a new look at the country on the other side of the impeachment scandal on rough translation from NPR. This is one A.. I'm Joshua Johnson. We're getting some of the key takeaways from the impeachment inquiry testimony so far especially especially the testimony of Gordon Sunland the US ambassador to the European Union. We're speaking with Nancy. Soderberg former deputy national security adviser and for Ambassador to the UN a variety of perspectives. From you about what we should be focused on and what you make of the testimony. So far marcy writes why is Rudy Rudy meaning Rudy Giuliani allow to act on foreign issues assume ambassadors. Take an oath rudy. Giuliani didn't make the investigation about protecting the security and in the next election. Not about trump. Eric writes a presumed concocted imagined. Quid pro quo in the mind of a dubiously coherent subordinate. Who'd been running with the ball? He put his own spin on is not enough to impeach trump. Appreciate your perspectives. We'll get some more of those in in just a moment. But first I joining US via skype is Nicholas Burns former undersecretary of state for political affairs and former ambassador to NATO ambassador burns. Welcome to the program. Thanks thanks so much. Now you've been listening to the opening statements this morning including from Fiona Hill. It seemed like the newness was ready from the very beginning to kind of come. After Fiona Hill put today in some perspective in terms of the expectations. I know that there are a lot of people who are kind of looking for a smoking gun on. It doesn't seem like we have one yet. But I don't know if that's even what these witnesses are aiming to provide. I think smoking gun was yesterday. When ambassadors Tomlin testified he testified that president trump organized the entire conspiracy to bribe the Ukrainian government to force the Ukrainian government to investigate Joe Biden in return for military aid and ambassador? Sunlen Said said that Vice President and secretary of State Pompeo and chief of staff of the White House Mick Mulvaney all knew exactly what was happening. That was very powerful. Fall and Sunlen said there was a quid pro quo that Ukraine ingot investigate the Biden's in return for a meeting with the president and they release of the US. The three hundred ninety one million dollars in US military so that was I thought the big transformation these impeachment inquiry today day fee on a hill and David Holmes. Our testifying Fiona Hill is highlighted. Respect it nonpartisan Russia expert she served as president trump special special assistant on Russia and Ukraine for the past two years. She made a powerful opening statement. Today saying that those people who believe in this wild conspiracy conspiracy theory that it was somehow Ukraine that interfere with our elections and not Russia. She told she said that that Siri is the wrong. That was backed up by Adam. Schiff the committee chair so it was quite a strong to the hearings this morning. Let me get your reaction to a clip of ambassador. Sunland here is one of the things he had to say during his testimony yesterday Secretary Perry Ambassador Volker and I worked with Mr Rudy. Giuliani on Ukraine matters matters at the express direction of the president of the United States. We did not want to work with Mr Giuliani simply simply put. We were playing the hand we were dealt ambassador Burns. What about that other than the idea of being a smoking gun in your experiences? An ambassador I I'm guessing that there were some moments during your ambassadorships where you had orders that you may not have personally agreed with but you had a job to do and you you had to carry them out ambassador Burns. Can you hear me I find okay I do now. You know what we're having some trouble with your line stand by if you would. We're going to reconnect with and let me go to Nancy. Soderberg with that same question. Nancy I imagine there were times during your work as an ambassador where you had orders to carry out that. You didn't necessarily personally personally agree with but you had a job to do right and the difference here is that my instructions were always in the US national security interest. I've been on the National Security Council as has ambassador Burns where you help you develop the policy. And there's some heated debates it's and then whenever the president decides you run with it and you I've been in Basseterre where you carry out those instructions. The difference here is that this was not in the US the national security interests to hold up aid for the president's personal benefit and that is what is going to come out and that's going to be the impeachment question. Is that okay. I think the Republicans are trying to put forward a false narrative that the president was just holding up aid to test whether the new new government in Ukraine was serious about corruption was going to be in our US interest. There was no investigation of that by the president. All all he was doing is saying. Will he investigate the Biden's embarrassment and that is misuse of power. That is going to. It'd be the basis of the articles of impeachment. I think the Republicans in Congress need to stop putting forward false narratives and say okay. That was okay it. It wasn't serious. It was an impeachable. But that's not what they're doing. They're trying to mislead the American public. The president was holding up this aid simply to test whether the new government was going to carry area policies for US interests. This was nothing to do about. US interest it was president. Trump's personal interest again trump. I not in America Erica. I policy and that's what the articles of impeachment or going to be all about and I think that's a reckoning that these Republicans are going to have to to have which side of they. Ah They on the truth or the furthering the pill political gain of this president so what impacts ambassador Soderberg went impact. Do you think that this will have on Republicans Publican's in the House and the Senate if the math is to be believed articles of impeachment are pretty much a plea but a conviction in the Senate seems you. You know slim to none and slim left the room. What impact does this have on? GOP members who are going to have to think this through and make a decision well the gop he members today live under what people have called the tweet of Damocles. They're petrified of a tweet from the president that that will cause them to get primary and they're not willing to stand up as these career. Foreign Services Officers are and speaking truth to power instead. They're putting forward a clearly false narratives that. The president held up this aid to test whether the new Ukrainian government was going to act in. US Interest No. He was holding it up to test. Whether whether this new inexperienced president would do the president's personal political bid and that's what this is about and I think Republicans in Congress Congress needs to own up to that. Stop lying to the American public and say this quid pro quo extortion bribery. Whatever you WANNA recall it this holding up of eight and a critical White House meeting for the president's personal gain? Is that an impeachable offense or not. That's what we need to be having the conversation tation on not some deflection just puts forward a very clear false narrative we're speaking to former UN ambassador. Nancy Soderberg and former former ambassador to NATO Nicholas Burns will have more with them in just a moment clubs support for this podcast and the following following message come from Google from Connecticut to California from Mississippi to Minnesota millions of American businesses are using Google tools to grow online the grow with Google Initiative supports small businesses by providing free digital skills workshops and one on one coaching and all fifty states helping businesses get online connect with new customers. There's and work more productively. Learn more at Google dot com slash growl. Hey there Joshua thanks for listening to the one a podcast. Please take a moment to subscribe and leave us a rating that helps other people find the show. And don't forget you can catch the news roundup at the end of every week this week on the story or podcast from NPR. We take you back back to two thousand fifteen when Osmo Jama a Somali. American woman was assaulted for speaking Swahili at a restaurant tune in to hear how asthma found support from an unlikely likely source the sister of the woman who attacked her. This is one A.. I'm Joshua Johnson. Let's get to some more comments. Here's one from Connie who e mailed sailed there's so much misinformation about life as a diplomat and especially in light of the recent testimonies of our foreign service colleagues it would be nice and relevant to hear some in reality Ambassador Soderberg. What are you hearing in terms of this reality that may be? Americans are learning for the first time about what ambassadors do how they come to their work why they're relevant etc.. I think what the American people are seeing which vassar burned myself. Anyone who's worked in the. US government understands that there are tens of thousands of dedicated public servants who get up every day and work on behalf of the American people in the US interest often in very dangerous situations in areas where they are away from their families and get zero credit for their job. And now we're seeing they're actually Getting up every day and making sure that our foreign policy is is carried out. I now teach at the University of North Florida here in Jacksonville and I have students going into the foreign service. And it's one of the proudest things that they can do. And I think one of the key challenges to Secretary Pompeo right now is why is is he not defending the proud courageous diplomats. Who worked for him? He's playing to the president so he can go run for the Senate Senate as opposed to doing his job as secretary of state and it's an untenable position for him and I really would encourage him to decide. Are you going to be a political sycophant for the president or are you going to be the secretary of state and support the hard working patriotic men and women of the State Department Yeah Democratic Congressman Denny Heck Pressed Under Secretary of State David Hale L. to say that very thing to say like we support you and we believe in your work really pressed him hard to be like now is your chance. Are you going to say it or not and sure sure enough he did. You said that you teach students who are going to go into diplomacy. What are they saying about all this? How do they view this well? Honestly they asked me. Is it still a good good place to work and we still have a career. I have Students who were in service right now. WHO said should I quit? And I've said no hang in there. We need eight people like you to be there and I think this period will pass but I think as you suggested it is a a moment in history where people are going to come to realize that these careers Are Important they matter. We want people of the courageous. The veterans of the world the Fiona Hills of the World Maria yovany riches of the world who get up every day and promote American interests. Not for a lot of money not for a lot of prestige toiling in the background. Because they're proud of what they do. They're proud of this country and their stories are American stories. They're immigrants their first in their family to go to college there. People who have studied the world and wanted to give back to this country and we should be honoring their service not denigrating their patriotism part of the store. The testimonies of Ambassador von Avenge and Lieutenant Colonel Finland had to do with them being immigrants to the US and now in the service of the US. I understand we've got ambassador. Nicholas Burns back on the line and Ambassador Burns one of the things that I also think really stood out in these hearings. Is that these ambassadors. This diplomatic core was kind of the tip of the spear in terms of detecting that something was amiss yesterday. Laura Cooper's testimony included new information that on the same day of the infamous call in July with President Trump and presidents alinsky. Ukrainian embassy started sending emails within hours of that call. Asking what was going on with the funding is that typical typical for there to be that kind of immediate connection tripled trickle down ripple effects after high level conversations. Take place well well sure you know. Our our government communicate all the time and I think what was important about deputy assistant secretary. Laura Cooper's testimony is that it advances Vance's the time line by about a month meaning the Ukrainians suspected that something was wrong with the provisions of the Military Eight By the end of July not by the end of Walker to early September. That's important because many of the defenders of president trump and the Republican party has said. Well how could there have been a quid pro quo for Ukrainians. I didn't even know that the was being military was being held up well. They suspected it a lot earlier I would also say. Just look at the transcript. I listed again. This morning's think of the White House issued July twenty fifth phone call between President Trump and presents Alinsky. President Trump asked presence Alinsky to investigate Joe Biden that is inviting a foreign government to interfere in our presidential election of two thousand twenty and that's an abuse of the the president's power because he did that for his own personal gain to me that was the justification for starting the impeachment agree and it remains. I think the most is damning evidence against the president his own words with regards to the ambassador's themselves. I'm glad to get to some more of your comments. Just in terms Gordon someone's presence in the administration. Bill writes so sunland clearly quote unquote bought an ambassadorship. I remember Ross. Perot wrote a book not for sale at any price. When will the corruption of money in politics ever end master burns? What about that? Is that a sign of corruption in politics. This this fact that Gordon the son was a political donor. And then that kind of document ambassadorship. Well this happens in both Republican and Democratic administrations rations A we have political appointee ambassadors whom the president appoints and sometimes they're appointed because of their expertise and sometimes there appoint because they gave lots of money to the president's campaign says true. The President Obama both President Bushes and President Clinton Since the since the Nineteen nineteen fifties seventy percent of our ambassadors around the world have been career ambassadors Foreign Service officers in about thirty percent of them political appointees. I actually you think that Congress and the next president should change this system. I think that the overwhelming majority of our ambassador say ninety to ninety five percent ought to be career porn service ambassadors. There May. There's obviously there are. There are very talented people in our society outside the Career Foreign Service who should be able to serve as ambassadors but I keep them to a minimum minimum. We're the only country in the world that has this system. Every other country relies on their career at Bassett. Or you can see. I've never met bathroom something. I don't WanNa be disrespectful towards him but he acted in a way he was in over his head and he didn't act in a way that a normal ambassador would act in the things things that he did You raised before with me an important issue. What happens when an ambassador disagrees with the instructions from the president well in our system You can certainly go back to the president or the Secretary of State and argue your case and say give me an instruction but I think it's wrong or I think think it's ineffective. I think embassador Sunlen if his testimony was true yesterday should have done that in this case he testified. Yesterday I didn't agree with the instructions to follow Rudy Giuliani. But I had to do it. Well no you don't have to do it. You always have the right to speak up and to say your piece and disagree. There are times and then you have to decide if you lose the argument inside the US government. Do I implement this decision with which I disagree and I've had to do that in my career. Lots of different tissues as have all people or do I not and if you don't you always have the option of resigning. That's a powerful option that's available to any. US government employees career or political. And so you know I was not convinced yesterday by ambassador. Silence testimony the somehow. He had no option but to go along with a clearly clearly. I think illegal scheme to bribe Ukrainian Garfield to say to them. You'RE NOT GONNA get your military and you're not gonNA get a meeting with President unless so you investigate the Biden's that was clearly wrong. That was an abuse of power and it was a foreign service officers. Who Objected Masha? You're GonNa Vich who saw this scheme unfolding very very early in the process. Bill Taylor openly objected to this throughout the way George Kent openly objected. And I was so proud of my foreign service. Brethren I'm friends with all three of those people. They spoke up they disagreed. And that's why I think. The public plan them so impressive honorable last week. They testified Nicholas Burns former under secretary of state for Political Affairs and former ambassador to NATO ambassador burns. Sorry we had the trouble with your line but we appreciate taking into. Thanks very much a pleasure to be with you. Thank you so much and Nancy Soderberg former deputy national security advisor and former ambassador to the UN Ambassador Soderberg. Thanks very much. Thank you for having us. This conversation was produced by Morgan givens and edited by Miranda full more to learn more about our team. visit the one A.. Dot Org this program comes comes to you from W. A. M. U. Part of American University in Washington distributed by NPR. Until we meet again. I'm Joshua Johnson. Thanks for listening. This is news one A.

president President Trump US Mr Sunlen Ambassador Sunland Ambassador Soderberg Rudy Giuliani White House Ambassador Burns Ukraine Trump Joe Biden Joshua Johnson Perry Ambassador Volker Nancy Soderberg UN America Foreign Service secretary ambassador Burns

Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

The Christian Science Monitor Daily

13:38 min | 9 months ago

Wednesday, November 20, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

"Welcome to the Monitor daily podcast. It's Wednesday November twentieth. Thanks for joining us. Marks open-field and I'm Molly Jackson Humpback. Whales had me when I first heard them sing. I remember sitting in my bedroom. It was a grade. Schooler perched over the record player as it crackled along the shiny grooves of a floppy black record that came and National Geographic. The unearthly beauty transported supported me to a place beyond imagination and yet amazingly actually real world. I lived in. I think of that today as I read that populations of Humpback whales in the South Atlantic have recovered from near extinction to pre twentieth century abundance. The numbers are unfathomable unfathomable from four hundred fifty in the nineteen fifties. To Twenty five thousand now the Humpback Song spoke to us all all in ways words never could similarly author Rachel Carson helped spawn the environmental movement with her nineteen sixty two book that spoke of a silent spring without birdsong but what of nature. That can't sing for itself. Can we find a song for the planet. A Monitor Progress Watch story from last year concludes ultimately the whales. Recovery is a story of a global community coming together amid the tremendous challenges. Our planet faces. It is vital to remember the good that we can do. And that often often begins with the all and humility that allow us to find our own deeper harmonies as the human race. uh-huh now onto our five stories. Our first story hyper partisanship isn't simply about differences of opinion in many ways the right and the left or actually seeing different things. Here's a look at two very different perspectives on impeachment. One Week into the public phase of the house impeachment inquiry it almost seems as if the Democrats and Republicans are witnessing separate events to Democrats ambassador through to the European Union Gordon Sahlins testimony on Wednesday amounted to the clearest indictment of President Donald Trump's attempt to push Ukraine for favors at the first break in the action in the impeachment inquiry on Wednesday House Intelligence Committee chairman. Adam Schiff rushed to the hall outside the hearing room to hold an impromptu press conference slash spin session. This is a very important moment. In the history of this investigation he told reporters for Republicans however the focus focus was on a September ninth call between Ambassador Sunland and president trump. Mr Sunland reportedly asked the letter what he wants from Ukraine. and Mr Trump said nothing no quid pro quo flood amerce. Linski needs to do the right thing. The president acted out the words of that call over the wine of marine in helicopter waiting to whisk him to Andrews Air Force Base. This is the final word from the president of the United States. I want nothing he said before turning to leave on a trip to Austin Texas. This story was reported by Peter Ear for the Monitor. Ah In a new study and on campuses there are the first faint signs that today's students may be willing to pull. I Love the roots of polarization reaching out to those with other worldviews. Today's college students are coming of age. Within a demographic diversity city even greater than that of millennials but with the country's seething polarization in the background there cultivating friendships outside their own religion and politics. It's in a new study. Researchers found that students come to college now having had a lot more exposure to inter worldview friendships beforehand a really a hopeful sign says Professor Eliza Rockin Bach interface dialogue is nothing new and fostering cross cultural discussions have long been part of campus. It's life but the study shows students willingness to work through clashing differences and maintain those friendships. It's essential that members with conservative or traditional theological perspectives. Feel both heard and included says Mary Ellen Geiss of the nonprofit interfaith youth core one of the bedrock premises premises of her organization. She says is to help the common good and guide students to develop the skills to create a functioning society. That's not easy busy. But I think that it's actually a beautiful thing to be able to affirm the distinctiveness of what individuals and individual communities. Bring Ms Guy says that's the foundation Shen of our country. This story was reported. Harry Bruni US in New York for the Monitor. Latinos have turned their political potential into power and California now other areas of the country are wondering if that shift is drawing closer for them. To the number of Latino voters nationwide nearly doubled from two thousand fourteen to two thousand eighteen. Gene and Latinos turned out in droves in both two thousand eighteen and two thousand nineteen software. Elections Latinos are not monolithic in their political preferences in states like Texas and Florida larger percentages back Republicans than in states like California and New York. But still a majority of the Tino's vote democratic chronic. Some experts see a national shift taking place that mirrors what began happening in California more than two decades ago. The nineteen ninety-four four passage of proposition. One eighty seven a ballot measure denying social services to unauthorized immigrants. Galvanized California's Latinos Political Michael and civic leaders began mobilizing voters and systematically running for office at the state and local level helping to turn the state a deep blue President Donald Trump's election in two thousand and sixteen did something similar says Matt Baretto co-founder of the Tino decisions it was through winning and governing on anti the anti migrant strategy that Mr trump has started to get a reaction. He's worked people up. He says the question he adds is whether the motivation and will continue for the next twelve months. This story was reported by Francine Keefer in Pasadena California for the Monitor. President trump says Chinese students in rich American universities yet the trade war is causing tensions colleges across the. US are struggling to figure out what now over the past decade the number of Chinese students on US campuses has is more than tripled but with U S China relations. Chilly and heightened concerns. What espionage? What's ahead for that trend? This year Chinese Chinese students in the US reached an all time. High according to data released this week by the Institute of International Education but growth in enrollment continues to slow slow from twenty nine point nine percent a decade ago to just one point seven percent today to some extent that reflects better opportunities for Chinese any students at home but it could spell trouble for cash-strapped. US campuses and schools along with the US. Government are making a push to broaden their appeal abroad. Seventy percent of foreign students in this country are concentrated at just two hundred institutions and one out of three are in California Texas or New York. One part of that campaign making Chinese students feel welcomed despite the frosty diplomacy at the University of Washington which has more than four thousand students from China. A few students suggested tensions led them to keep a low profile but not most Eddie Chen lanky freshman from the northeast Hailing Jong Province. Says he would recommend studying abroad. You have to solve problems for yourself. He says you have to be independent. This story was reported by am Scott Tyson in Seattle for the Monitor. The technology helps us call cabs and have takeout food delivered to our door now. Jordan is using it tell maintain a meaningful tradition that keeps community ties. Strong many Danes read their morning newspaper from back to front starting with the obituary section. It's not a morbid obsession. But rather an attempt to make sure they don't neglect a vital social obligation here in tribal Jordan. Even as other aspects of society have transformed dramatically. The importance of communal morning has changed very little. If anything the obligation to pay respects during the SA a three day mourning period after someone dies has been elevated to a matter of honor if if a relative of an inland friend coworker neighbor or acquaintance dies no matter if it is apparent cousin or distant aunt thrice removed. It is a duty to demonstrate support and show up during the SA however briefly. We go to as is more often than Americans go to the gym jobs. Muhammed Shoddy and Amman lawyer. Who had just attended four weeks in three days? Not showing up is just not an option that makes an awful lot of weeks to attend how we've them into an already hectic schedule and get to the funeral. Ten in time is a real challenge. So now there's an APP up. This story was reported by Taylor. Luck in Amman Jordan. For the Monitor now. Commentary commentary on Iraq's trail-blazing protesters from the Monitor's editorial board in recent weeks the so called ancient hatreds of Iraq between people people of different faiths have largely gone missing in a fourteen story abandoned building in downtown Baghdad. It is there and central tougher square air that tens of thousands of young Iraqis have not only organized nationwide protests against the government but also created a model mini state for a new Iraq and perhaps much of the Middle East. Protest organizers in the building are working across faiths a sharp sharp contrast from Iraq's sectarian power structure and it's inherently corrupt system of patronage that has led to mass joblessness is. ZD's Sunnis Janis Christians. We are all here to just be real Iraqis and support each other for freedom and for a good life said when organizer her. The protests are a Cathartic moment for Iraq one born of economic desperation but now demonstrating the virtues of true democracy democracy in a fourteen story building and beyond the guns of Iran backed militias May. Try to end this alternative system but after for seven weeks the blaze of gunfire is still losing to Iraq's trailblazers. That's a wrap for the news can find the full length versions of these stories in today's issue or at CS monitor dot com slash daily. Thanks for joining us today. Please come back tomorrow for our review of the new film about Mister Rogers. Beautiful Day in the neighborhood. Today's Christian Science Spiritual Perspective column is a prayer for the world's children today is World Children's Day and the thirtieth anniversary the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the child. You can find the column in today's issue or at CS MONITOR DOT com slash daily. We want to give quick. Thanks to our staff including today's audio production team Riley Robinson Pekka Salonen Tim Malone and Jeff Turkey Humpback Whale Song and the Intro is courtesy of the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research. This this podcast is produced by the Christian. Science Monitor Copyright Twenty nineteen.

United States California Donald Trump president Iraq Texas New York Molly Jackson Ambassador Sunland National Geographic Rachel Carson SA Schooler Adam Schiff South Atlantic Mister Rogers Andrews Air Force Base Tino
Trump allies attack Purple Heart recipient who says he twice reported alarm over Ukraine scandal; House Rules Committee releases impeachment resolution; New CNN NH poll: Sanders & Warren neck & neck in lead

The Lead with Jake Tapper

40:16 min | 10 months ago

Trump allies attack Purple Heart recipient who says he twice reported alarm over Ukraine scandal; House Rules Committee releases impeachment resolution; New CNN NH poll: Sanders & Warren neck & neck in lead

"Finding the right pros for home projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions like how do I find a pro who can help will they do a good job will I get a fair price that's where homeadvisor can help from leaky faucets to major remodels homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps you get a fair price read review was and is American policy it was passed by the House and the Senate and signed into law by the president according to someone who knows someone who never complains about his wounds but he still walks around with some of the shrapnel in his body this vile dual loyalties smear of an army it's very clear that he is incredibly concerned about Ukrainian defense I don't know how concerned about American policy but his main mission was to make sure that the Ukraine got those weapons quotes I don't know that he's concerned about American policy getting Ukraine those weapons to beat back the Russians Bert witness with damning testimony Taylor President trump suggested is human scum this mirrors are in fact getting so hideous house A loathsome dual loyalties smear that trump defenders have started using former Congressman Sean Duffy this morning on CNN smeared vitamin is seizing on New York Times reporting that Ukrainian officials sought advice from vitamin about how to deal with Rudy Giuliani. The president's personal attorney Giuliani tweeted that lieutenant colonel having allegiance to Ukraine and not to the country that vitamin literally fought and bled for the United States it seems now if you think Benjamin being a decorated war veteran would make the president and his supporters more reluctant to smear him well then you have not been paying attention republicans attacking maybe the most unimpeachable thing in this whole investigation beliefs starts right now he's the first person who was actually on that Ukraine who prides himself on being nonpartisan reported his concerns out of a sense of duty lieutenant colonel after all has served active duty in the US Army for more than twenty years he was total hill where right now the top Ukraine expert on the White House National Security Council is testifying in the impeachment inquiry according to his opening statement army awarded the Purple Heart after being wounded by e D in Iraq been was born in Soviet occupied Ukraine his family fled the USSR when he was three years investigation into the Biden's in exchange for a White House meaning then then men raised the alarm once again when he heard that the president made a similar demand Vin men Donovan is a quote US government employees who has reportedly been advising to governments which is nonsensical and not true but of a piece. The president's defenders now crashed inning the loyalty of the active duty Army officer in Iraq war veteran who still has shrapnel in his body why bolt becoming embodiments of the American dream he and his twin brother were featured in Ken Burns documentary from one thousand nine hundred five off and then we went to mother died so we went to Italy and then we came here phone call to testify and he's telling Congress that he was so troubled by the president's actions that he reported it to lawyers up the ladder appalling attacks title comes just days after a different smear of a different decorated war veteran this smear by president trump of ambassador Bill Taylor Vietnam War veteran and another right race ahead welcome to the lead on Jake Tapper we begin today with the politics lead explosive testimony on Lookin Conference Chair Liz Cheney today said this we're talking about decorated veterans who have served this nation who put their lives Colonel Alexander Vindication twice sounded the alarm I he raised concerns that the president's point man on Ukraine demanded that the Ukrainian government open deeply involved in that process the one Cheney called shameful because they apparently would rather in Pune decorated veterans such as Vin men so let us now turn to that testimony here's Sunlen Serfaty on Capitol Hill Bombshell testimony on Capitol Taylor then address the substance of their testimony which alleges that President Trump and his team essentially were St US officials telling lawmakers that Ambassador Sunland started to speak about Ukraine delivering specific investigations in order to secure the meeting with the President at which today he was so troubled by what was happening with Ukraine he raised concerns twice to his superiors we've got all kinds of opinions from several witnesses over the last few weeks because he's testifying in the impeachment today plus a brand new CNN poll snapshot of the first in the nation primary New Hampshire one that could point to a historically was on the line and it is shameful to question their patriotism their love of this nation and we should not be involved in that process but president trump and his defenders are president trump in the Ukrainian president telling lawmakers today in his opening statement obtained by CNN that he was concerned by what he heard on the call. I did not of Ukraine this is just another unimpeachable character witness somebody not characterize unimpeachable witness saying hill this is a very very important moment this is a person that was there from Alexander vind men the National Security Council's top Ukraine expert telling house investigators the president's former top Russia adviser who was also in the room but that directly contradicts what Gordon Sunland told House investigators two weeks ago during his deposition putting Ukraine and corrupting the national security apparatus of the United States in order to help president trump politically they don't WanNa talk about that testimony but the fundamental facts are are are just that fundamental but Jinmen is the first witness who was actually on the now famous July twenty fifth phone call between shared those misgivings with me then or later and vitamins accounting of what happened and what was said in that July tenth meaning however is I think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigated a US citizen and it was worried about the implications for the US government support of Ukraine following the call Vin his statements were inappropriate following that meeting Vin man says he also reported his concerns then to lead counsel as did Fiona Hill Man said he reported his concerns to the NFC's lead counsel earlier that same month Finland attended a July tenth meeting in Washington with Ukrainian and and then after this phone call listen we knew this day would come that there would be somebody to come before this committee who was actually on that phone call for all of these Mattie are you at all surprised here we have somebody who literally still according to somebody who knows literally still is walking around with shrapnel wounds body from combat operations in Iraq fighting for the and quote I was concerned by the call I did not think it was proper to demand that a foreign government investigate a US citizen and I was worried about the implications for the US government's support on Capitol Hill Zahn Linden telling lawmakers quote if Ambassador Bolton Dr Hill or others Hubbard any misgivings about the propriety of what we were doing they never backed up by the testimony of Bill Taylor he of course is president trump's top US diplomat in Ukraine Jake who testified up here on Capitol Hill last week or it's embassador sauna bland emphasize the importance that Ukraine deliver the investigations into the twenty sixteen election. The Biden's and Burris Ma I stated to Ambassador Sunland if investigations in order to secure the meeting with the president at which time Ambassador Bolton cut the meeting short that's in the meeting with Ukrainian government officials what does that say to you about finding on Capitol Hill thanks so much let's discuss Neil let me start with you in his opening statement of inman wrote this about President Trump's phone call with Ukrainian president which was listening in nation that it was extortion in his opening statement women also wrote in July debrief after they met with the Ukrainian government officials quote Ambassador Sunland Oh evidence just to clarify for the president if you work for the trump administration you can't be a never-trumper just by definition this guy works in the White House he was on the coal trump also said today remind him we saw some of that today with some Republicans obviously trying to push back but it's another damning day off for this presidency with what's coming out of these depositions and I that quote I recall no discussions with any State Department or White House official about former Vice President Biden or his son nor do I recall taking part in any effort to encourage investigation in to the Biden's and you have been men in his testimony the opening statement he says that he went to him afterwards and said it was entirely inappropriate and then Dr he has depositions and with the whistleblower complaint you heard some of the trump's allies and trump himself essentially saying well this was all second hand third hand fourth hand and therefore can't necessarily United States army he's still in the army and you have people and look I never served so I don't want it but I don't want those who haven't served but Rudy Giuliani never served worked in previous administrations and so I don't find that surprising what's really tough for everyone that was in the White House at that moment we are now in the phase of what did you know I look at people's credibility as witnesses figure out who I'm going to believe who I want to assign that Gravitas to based on what their expertise is if you're a first hand account that's great if when did you know it is at odds with a whistle blower and then men a Rick Perry has a problem is previously denied knowing anything about it he was in those Bill Taylor and now of course Lieutenant Colonel Madman all have expertise into the compromise state that Ukraine would have been in compared to the prowess of our American military time in Basseterre Bolton cut the meeting short at a debriefing afterwards been been has divide today that he confronted the US ambassador the EU Gordon Sauna Bland to this happens in Bolton cuts the meeting short and a lot of people disagree on policy but I've always believed that he is an `institutionalised who will protect the institutions that he works for him that this was inappropriate and his character unimpeachable right if you look at his record he was he got a purple horror he served in Iraq how the public impeachment hearings could play out in front of all of our is plus the White House trying to find a new way to attack the impeachment process as president trump trash is an American hero stay with us hey guys this is kinda rogers I live in active lifestyle with tons of travel during football season constantly on the go I sacrifice style for comfort and thanks I don't have to anymore I'm sure you guys can't stand shopping but it's easy and takes no time to place an order on their website com and enter Promo Code Warner W. A. R. N. E. R. Warner Stop Wasting your weekends in stores make it easy and get premium yeah I've heard of him which makes trump stupid because why are you making calls to foreign leaders with people in the room you've never heard of the whole thing is bizarre obviously it's all about taking out the witnesses did you said in dual loyalties charges Sean Duffy never fed to the president had bone spurs right so he couldn't make it like Vietnam veteran testify last week Bill Oh bar so there's a lot of places you can go and it all goes straight to the top so now we have testimony from Lieutenant Colonel News now we're just seeing the text of the house impeachment resolution that the full House will vote on for the first time on Thursday the resolution outlines exactly how impeachment war and he's somebody who felt like it was his patriotic duty to report this right any reported in two different instances first meeting a were Bolton was in the meeting on them within the knee the expanded including the fact that they can now request witnesses and documents as this moves to the Judiciary Committee for that broader public hearing now were depositions that have been going on for several weeks now but this is really about broadening the role of the minority here the minorities rights on a hill also on the National Security Council said the same thing to him so assuming that hill backs that testimony someone could face some problems here a glad used the phrase extortion at the top of the show because we've used quid pro quo for faulty long it's extortion I think people understand what extortion is Vin men's testimony is the latest also you're somebody and efficient to understand why there would have been an abuse of power what was the leverage we're talking about why would it have been inappropriate each the people that you named Fiona Hill there is a catch to that the Republicans only had those rights in consultation with the Democratic chairman if there's disagreement then it will go for a full second session and raise objections and cross examine witnesses and Democrats are you in this really undercuts a key Republican talking point that this process the US ambassador to the EU for some reason he was the point man Ukraine is not in the EU anyway and buster started to speak about Ukraine delivering space amen that completely contradicts what ambassador Sunland sets on when the point man on this Ukraine rogue operation said the underwear shirts and sweats are perfect for workouts or when you're on the move this is the most comfortable clothing I own making it hard to go back to anything else and if you think I'm lying step forward if you read the very first line of the resolution it directs the Committee the Oversight Committees I happen to be on one of them judiciary to continue our investigation I'm from the Great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Madelene Dean congresswoman thanks for joining us your reaction to this resolution that just posted within the hour I'm pleased with it I think it's the right shen as to whether sufficient grounds exist to to bring to bear our constitutional authority of Impeachment so I think it's it's an vote of the committee and as you know Democrats control the House of Representatives therefore they'll have more votes in the committee but this also expands the rights of the president to defend of impeachment and then of course to have hearing markup on drafted articles I heard a lot of Democrats complaining about the House Republicans give it a try you can keep the first pair of underwear and they'll still refund you no questions asked for twenty percent off your first order visit Mac Weldon dot storming the skiff last week are you worried that Republicans are going to take advantage of public hearings to try to I look forward to the public hearings that we will have I look forward to the transfer of the report to the Judiciary Committee so that we can determine whether or not to draft articles Celtic few key points that are outlined in this resolution it present it allows the president and his lawyer to present their case and respond to evidence a ten hearings including those readings that Bolton blew up how far does this go was Mike Pence invol- worried he's not gonNA escape from this unscathed where was Mike Pond Pale solution it shows the seriousness with which our Party our caucus takes Where we are headed speaker Pelosi has said so many times we are in a solemn that's all that seriously this should not be filled with stunts or circuses the Wall Street Journal editorial board published an op Ed about a Pelosi's decision for this resolution precedings impeachment inquiry proceedings will go down from from public hearings to a report that will be delivered on their findings seen learn Fox's on Capitol Hill Larne walk us through the key the law does not apply to him when you have a president who abandons his oath of office when you have a president who would rather compromise our elections than actually work what is in railroad job unquote should the public look at this resolution as a concession of sorts that the Republicans had points in this resolution what we know Jake is that there are going to be public hearings that they also are going to issue that public report and they will release the transcript of those closed medically with democratic partners around the world putting them at risk when you have a president who attempts to shake down foreign president for dirt on a political opponent appoint that the process needed to be far more transparent I think not and here's why disagree with the premise of the editorial for his own personal and political gain we have no choice but to take this very very seriously I hope my Republican counterparts on all these committees have oversight take it distract change the subject undermine turn them into a spectacle in the view of Democrats I certainly hope not I that's what was sort of grounding about this place nobody wanted to be here this is a very difficult time for our Congress and even more difficult time for our country but when you have a president who behaves as news check project cost Guide and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download the free homeadvisor APP to start your next project well that's that's a question down the road that's why again I like the opening statement up this what we will need is the evidence from the witnesses that are being collected now topnotch fabric with Mac wellman dot com don't forget that Promo Code Warner for a sweet twenty percent discount one step forward it is a matter of process and due process as your report just laid out and what kind of evidence will you need to vote to impeach the president do you think goldstone parents anyone who's in the way of the trump campaign and the trump calls it's interesting that he dismisses them all as never trumpers you referred to Kennel never-trumper two zero evidence judiciary committee what kind of physical evidence is there well we will get copies of transfer of all of the depositions as will the American people it's unfair they're arguing moving forward it's officially outlining what the rules will be Jake Fox on Capitol Hill thank you so much joining me now is Democratic Congressman Wall Street Journal Board they said it is as though she said yeah you were right I should've had of vote on a formal inquiry this is not that vote this is wait and who did you tell because every time they told somebody somebody else on a witness I wanNA question or recall to confirm and corroborate and that's why I think we're in this state right now oh lying out process and due process including for the president and his own counsel so it's actually the the premise of the editorial is just plain false and also he could in a car Bolton cut the meeting short so was translates to me is Lucy you've got some explaining to do as to why you told Congress one thing and then it's backed up by other people in and for the vote Thursday it says quote this is what you say when you know your critics have been right but you don't want to admit it perhaps Mrs Pelosi realize that the house process so far has looked like a chorus Americans influence so they had expertise they don't even have a partisan slant and they told in real time I would argue even pass what you're talking about we're in the phase of when did you maybe believes or here is someone who was on that phone call and it trucks very closely with what we know of with the whistleblowers said so listen I think you'll have the president's allies try to I'm back to Ukraine you have an Iraq veteran testified these people the Republican Party Easter Fetish is and say don't you dare say anything about our veterans Eros since Donald Trump took over there close saying all right well come before the public and tell us what you think we want to assess your credibility in real time all right everyone stood there we have a lot more to talk about coming up breaking news we're getting our first look at scribe if the resolution also brings some sort of clarity to the role of transferring evidence to the committee on which you sit at the House that's incredibly important transparency is going to be incredibly important to prosecute this case and to see whether or not high crimes and misdemeanors that exist we're going to see evidence obviously you know today the very evidence of a lieutenant colonel who was on the Ukraine phone call and how concerned he was the impeachment inquiry resolution the process how will the White House response US remember to create an ad like this one so is the White House as the top White House expert on Ukraine testified today president trump was lashing out at the Purple Heart deeply concerned about a shadow foreign policy being performed by Rudy Giuliani of all people and that things were contingent upon president benefit him politically and personally That kind of evidence from these courageous folks who are coming forward to testify and others who will still come in an open setting visit pure winning dot com slash CNN the politics lead Democrats hope that Thursday's House vote on the impeachment inquiry process opening hearings providing a position transcripts and more will quiet Republican complaints of non-transparency even though one of the more than Forty House Republicans who could have attended remember we'll have to make a decision based on their conscience the vote could work in the White House's favor or against it trump's aides are waiting to see read the transcripts we read the summary of Volcker's and there was one other one we did the summary or you've gone actually the Croats who are now slated to take their first vote on the impeachment inquiry forcing lawmakers to go on the record supporting the investigation what Democrats do before making any moves Republicans have demanded for weeks that Democrats must vote before the inquiry can be seen as legitimate house and I see this side show Ted Yoho is a Republican who sits on one of the three committees allowed in the room but he says he hasn't even Alinsky making sure he opened up an investigation into Biden and Barista and also that he publicly made a statement about that we've seen this pattern of behavior before by this president we read the exact same sort of patterns in the Muller Report where the president wants somebody to do something for him publicly that zippy it without naming him accused Lieutenant Colonel Alex Van Minh of being a political opponents asking was he on the same call that I was and every deposition now admits that he is not attended a single one republicans are debating a new way to go after the impeachment process and to CNN's Caitlyn's collins reports now how many more never-trumpers will be allowed to testify the president's attacks coming as the White House is privately deciding how to respond to the latest moves by no today they claim it's too little too late I applaud the speaker for finally admitting it is a tire sham but you can't put the genie back in the bottle one this is the evidence that is important congresswoman Matalin Dean of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Thank you so much for your time as always thank Jake now that a house committee has released a draft of Publican congressman admitting he hasn't attended any of the closed-door depositions but why are you not there because I've have other responsibilities in the between Republicans and Democrats Democrats accusing Republicans of trying to out the whistle blower the Republicans said no they were trying to out the person by naming them they just wanted to find who was the then been spoke with that happened behind closed doors being told the Democrats are being prepared to move these in front of the cameras in public though right now there's read the full now Jake Ted Yoho said he was going to go to vitamins testimony today where we are told a shouting match occur still lining people up to come privately including the chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney is National Security Advisor Rob Blair who was also one that July phone call all right Caitlin Forty Republicans that are allowed to hear these depositions and people like Ted Yoho Congressman Ted Yoho hasn't even been to one even though he's entitled to go to that doesn't that kind of like undermine Republicans argument here yeah a little bit but frankly it's a little bit easier for Republicans if you don't WanNA defend the president outright to pretend like you don't know what's going on like many Senate Republicans are doing right now wow under the defense so we might be jurors possible conviction so I can't talk about it but you know the White House is struggling to Republicans are struggling because there's not a coherent message for the White House you saw Kevin McCarthy come the cameras earlier today and talk about a mistrial well that's not a thing there's not legally collected evidence you're going to be part of it so he's not afraid of these kinds of things the whole of this process is in bad faith you mentioned mistrial is not a thing all that president invocations are not things either everything you're going to have to participate at some point Laura Ingram took a good stab last night that blew up in all Republicans faces this morning and then have Steve Bannon out there literally doing a podcast tried to the White House thanks let's keep talking my experts Amanda I'm all for transparency I would love open hearings get it all but like when you find out the first of all there are more than as part of the US army in Iraq but you say that the dual loyalty charged there's there's even more to within that well he's a Jewish refugee from Ukraine came to the USDA just three help Republicans message and listen to it. I'll save you the time it all comes down to just question people's motives and accusing anyone that speaks out against the president of not supporting his America first policy note when they had a vote they come out and this is a sham it's too little too late surprise the Republicans all about bad faith that defines everything they do on this issue and that's what will define it going and said no and I imagine if there was something that was you know exculpatory of the President and the Republicans won't be rushing to the cameras to tout it but all they can and that's all they got and we were talking about this dual loyalty accusation that Rudy Giuliani and Congressman Duffy and others have been making against it's imperative to have the public hearings essentially say you can argue in pound the table all you want because you hate the process but once it's already out there Baxter Jimmy at this point is talk about process it's not going to get easier for them in terms of the messaging the core problem is this bad set of facts for this president what's the saying Eh Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vin men who has no Doley loyalty he he has shrapnel in his body I'm fighting with for the fighting effective once the message is already out it's kind of exercise in futility the message has been out multiple times now the president in the White House issued the message at one point in time with that would you mentioned forty seven Republicans on the three committees thirteen of the people who'd storm the skiff world knows committee they could have just walked in enough storm are doing what they're doing now ambassador Bill Taylor came out of retirement after a thirty year career in the foreign service handpicked by Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to help the trump plus you've done is by the book within her powers even this vote today there was no real need for the federal judge said last Friday everything's fine you don't need to have a vote and guess what Republicans have a summation of the call the whistleblower complaint out there is a message you've got bill Taylor you've got Fiona Hill you've got hundred minutes well the message is out which is why an army veteran and purple heart recipient a reminder that Vinson is not the only one who has been sounding the alarm about the trump Ukraine dealings as C. N. N.'s Alex Marquardt reports for us now there are several other career officials raising similar issues despite the president trying to discredit them Lieutenant Colonel Alexander you know I talked to a person who was in those meetings and asking is there anything that's coming out of these depositions that puts the president in a good light right in this service working for administrations from both parties as because of the love and country is because of the oath of office that they took the oath to the constitution that's the reason why very an expert on Ukraine his country of birth then part of the Soviet Union some people might call that espionage vins immigration story leading some Republican maybe he wished for I'm looking forward to it stick around he's been smeared disparage loyalty to America question Lieutenant Colonel Sanders alert that everything the Ukrainian president wanted from the United States was dependent on him going to a microphone and saying he is opening investigations of Biden is to question his patriotism damning testimony in this impeachment inquiry has been all the more powerful because like vitamins it's coming from people with years it is not the only career government employees under attack for testifying about what he sees as the facts and the impeachment Greece stay with us a few on a hill also testified that sunland disgust investigations which she interpreted as a reference to the president's call for investigations into the Biden's hill cast I sat down with former Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd blankfein citizen by CNN conference live event with newsmakers across industries to talk eight department is being hollowed out and today the president of the American Foreign Service Association which represents U S diplomats issued a pleading statement asking them was under President George W Bush part of more than thirty years in the Foreign Service Ambassador von which also told lawmakers in her testimony that the in twenty sixteen interference for that the president called him never trumper diplomat Bill Taylor who I don't know the president's former top advisor on Russia administration in Ukraine the Vietnam veteran gave an explosive statement to the committee's telling them that the US ambassador to the European Union Gordon Salman told seven men wearing his formal army service uniform was a stark reminder he was approaching his testimony today not as a political official but a senior member of the US military official Jared Kushner firing back at former vice president Joe Biden after Biden claim that Kushner and his wife Ivanka who also works for the administration have no business beginning ugly in two thousand twenty. The president's son-in-law Jared Kushner just fired back at Joe Biden stay with US despite the current circumstances to stay in the service the president saying the foreign service needs you your country needs you jake and let's not forget that when the on Wall Street so he knows both sides of the proverbial tracks I asked him what he thinks of Bernie Sanders statement that billionaires should not exist in America Hey everyone a brand new boss files episode is out it is our one hundredth episode so excited to continue sharing these inspiring conversation with you on served as an intelligence officer on Russia as well as working at Harvard and Brookings Institution have to have a base of people who are experts on issues that are the politics lead as president trump continues to attack Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Veneman top Ukraine expert on the White House National Security Council not to mention this is bad faith in the problem is the bad facts that

president Ukraine president trump United States Iraq White House National Security White House US Army CNN Rudy Giuliani Joe Biden Ambassador Sunland Capitol Taylor Senate Jake trump Russia officer
White House In Clean-Up Mode After Pres. Trump's Chief Of Staff Admits To Quid Pro Quo With Ukraine; "A Great Day For Civilization"; "Ceasefire" Or "Pause"

Anderson Cooper 360

44:51 min | 10 months ago

White House In Clean-Up Mode After Pres. Trump's Chief Of Staff Admits To Quid Pro Quo With Ukraine; "A Great Day For Civilization"; "Ceasefire" Or "Pause"

"Good evening on tonight major developments on many fronts in the impeachment inquiry we begin tonight with the one that eclipses them all and could fundamentally changed the course of this entire affair underscores the gravity of what he said today presumably with the president's approval he told the public told lawmakers pursuing impeachment told the world that yes the straighten withheld military aid from an ally under Russian attack to get that country to take action to help the president politically Mick Mulvaney admitted was a quid pro quo with Ukraine he didn't use those words quid pro quo but what he describes was just that and then he said this wave from what he said what he said in great detail several times and not by accident right now acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney is furiously backpedalling from at all which only today one of the president's top advisers openly admitted what he the president and all the president's people have been denying for weeks now now he's trying to back let me be clear there was absolutely no quid pro quo between Ukrainian military aid in any investigation into the two thousand sixteen election the latest word from it hello there is no pro wealth or no pro quo today Mick Mulvaney admitted well yeah there was again didn't use those words with foreign policy and again he said we should get over it and perhaps he already has there's more breaking news on all of this including from the Wall Street Journal reporting that the president any in hopes perhaps of erasing the previous latest word which will play again for you now you just described is a quid pro it is election now what Mulvaney just spilled out there is the exchange of something for something or the now familiar Ladan equivalent we needed that was being held up Mick Mulvaney agreeing that what transpired on that call what he rudy Giuliani vice-president pence Mike pompeo and a cast of recently indicted a situation he described which he said get over it is a quid pro quo any tried to suggest that there was nothing wrong with it admitting it nothing wrong with emitting it because it just happens all the on two thousand sixteen refers to that conspiracy theory the president's latch onto which blames Ukraine and the Democrats Not Russia for interference in the last presidential asta who joins us from the White House I can only imagine what the response was when Mick Mulvaney finished that press conference and went back to whatever room he went thing about it too congress another key player by the way ambassador Gordon Sunland went before lawmakers today but even as he was talking so it was Mick Mulvaney now here's the first we do we do that all the time with Foreign Policy Oh okay well there was the president's acting chief-of-staff speaking for the president what appears to be the truth is terrible for this president so having made those disastrous remark he is now trying to say what he said he released a statement reading in part this funding will not flow in less investigation into the democratic server happened as well we do we do that all the time suggesting that we're all just a little naive for somehow being surprised equating what happened with the normal diplomatic give and take between countries which this is not accused felons were involved with for months was the very thing in the very words that the president others said it was not you take a look at the it appears to be for personal game after all if this were normal it's hard to see what the White House has been trying fruitlessly now to stop all the participants in the scheme from testifying moment from Malvinas press conference so the demand for an investigation into the Democrats was part of the reason that he was on the to with talking about the very first thing that president brought up on that July twenty fifth phone call with Ukrainian President Zelinski immediately after Lewinsky asked about the military aid clear you just described is a quid pro quo it is funding will not flow unless the investigation into the democratic server happened as funding to you look back to what happened in two thousand sixteen certainly was was part of the things that he was worried about in corruption with that nation then that is absolutely time and keeping them honest it's hard to see anything but bs because tonight as we said he is now furiously backpedalling away from what he said earlier recognition that speaking to have gone well for him what's the reaction been inside the White House to all of this Anderson I mean I think Mick Mulvaney has gone from quid pro Oh to quit pro bono essentially what's happening tonight but basically you know when the president's legal team is putting out statements saying that they will sixteen hundred As we as you just pointed out just a few moments ago not only was Mick Mulvaney saying there was a quid pro quo he almost seemed proud of it right all is a nothing burger in terms of a quid pro quo there was never any quid pro quo there's no quid pro quo would pro quo quid pro quo no quid pro go on inside the president's legal team that they were essentially blindsided and did not feel that what Mick Mulvaney had say help their cause very much having we're not involved in Mick Mulvaney as briefing in the White House briefing room I mean that is pretty clear that they were not on board with this I'm told by sources familiar with these discussions after the conspiracy theory about the server being in the Ukraine that's right and and keep in mind the president and his defenders for weeks I've been saying that agreed on the need for Mister Mulvaney to walk back his comments yeah you think and personally approved his chiefs statement the paper citing a White House official more now from C. N. N.'s Jim the president according to this official felt that the media were intentionally misinterpreting what Mick Mulvaney said but of course Anderson that is more clean up on there was no quid pro quo but in the rough call transcript the president admits he says in that rough call transcript that he sounds like they had to go back and rework that statement well I don't understand how Mulvaney could also in that same press conference stand there and say that the dirt on the Biden's that had nothing to favor was it to look into a political opponent not in two thousand sixteen but in twenty twenty And so I think it cannot help the case Krizner was on camera with George Stephanopoulos while saying Oh yeah it would be no probably if a foreign country had information I would totally take it and and you know who knows what he would do that that was not part of the quid pro quo even though we've all now seen the rough transcript in which that is item number two Z. evening it featured some of the same talking points that the president has been using over the last several weeks and saying that there was no quid pro quo that this was about rooting out corruption and so on that all of that I just spoke with a White House official in the last several minutes who said that the president was involved somewhat in the statement that was put out by the White House Break Wilco but of good pro quo of for them doing something that he wanted done and then the conversation he said look by the way I need a favor time and then of course he had come out later on and released that statement one interesting thing to note if you go through that statement line by line Anderson the one that was issued by the acting chief of staff it caller was perfect I didn't do there was no quid pro quo just turned into a full blown threat a full-blown quid pro and I just don't see it this phone call when I spoke with the House Majority Leader Democrat Steny Hoyer leader Hoyer how damaging were Mick mulvaney remarks for the president in this impeachment inquiry will essentially really what I understand I didn't hear Mulvaney say but what I understand he says yes there was a quid pro quo and a in effect daring people to get over it because that's foreign policy now it's not really clear and I think mulvaney comments as I said shortly went out helpful to the president's case I want to ask you about Turkey and the Kurds in northern Syria crowd strike and the Biden's it's there for everybody to read the conversation the president told the speaker of the house he get four well yes right he has spoken in this fashion time and again appreciate things just a few moments before suddenly reversed himself in the White House damage control foreign help in an election so the president is always is always trying to spin things obviously but clearly there is a violation of the law baked into that rough call transcript the conversation was perfect which is why I presume he released it because he thought it was fine it wasn't fun it clearly was a quid pro quo it did that also doesn't make sense I mean there's plenty of actual Ukrainian corruption but the president didn't raise any that all he talks about was this conspiracy theory about his favor and by the way I've got your money and also I know that you want to visit the White House and obviously the contingency between the two was was the thing that they were clinging to over these last couple of weeks anderson was that there was no quid pro quo and I think there's just no way around it the acting chief of staff blew that up today inside that briefing what they wanted perhaps the series got what they wanted to get out of their territory and now they've got the Turks there and frankly wanted to get dirt on Joe Biden that he wanted to get dirt on Joe Biden's family what do we know by just looking at federal election law in this country it is a violation of law to seek and will be part of the testimony and evidence that the committees are gathering Mulvaney is claiming that the president pursuing this conspiracy theory which flies facing the intelligence community says was Russian involvement in the DNC hack Levinas claiming that that was that was a concern about corruption in Ukraine just logically a- and what the president decided to do is withhold that money which Mulvaney says was quid pro quo he doesn't say that Word Special Forces troops who are doing extraordinary job along the border basically encamped with the the Kurdish fighters I need to be stated this is the quit and that's the pro clearly the president of Ukraine knew what was going on clearly he knew that the president was saying I need and that that small number special forces troops kept Turkey from launching this invasion until the president as you said essentially greenland it by pulling them out I think the Russians got what they wanted so frankly the president taking credit for some sort of positive move forward I think is absolutely incorrect the Dan was a he sounded a pro. You know professorial during this briefing teaching all of us you know school kids this is how things work in the big leagues we do this all the you're right Anderson and very frankly the president's rationale for doing this both the public land in our meeting yesterday said look I said in the campaign quiet man but a very forceful man and the House has lost a great member of the country has lost a person of great intellect and in the so-called deal that was announced today which the president is trumpeting as something that will save millions of lives the Turkish foreign minister calls it a pause and I guess the in the House but also your home state obviously Maryland can you just talk about him what do you want to know about him he was a very good and decent person what the Congress the United States appropriated money for an ally a war with and losing losing people president saying that this potentially save millions of lives I mean if he was actually concerned about that he could have kept the fee anywhere from fifty to one hundred investigation the facts are becoming increasingly clear I mean this was a government initiative led by the president for it's going to get the troops out of the Middle East and just lastly we send our condolences on the death of your colleague Terminal Cummings you shared not just service gritty and we are lesser place for his law says you know he was the speaker pro tem the first african-american speaker pro tem in the history of the Maryland legislature is proving the same thing that this exchange was going on and the question now is what Congress going to do about it is is the even without the late developments at the end of her significant day which also included ten hours of testimony from Gordon Sunland one of the three people president trump delegated to dealing with effective advocate and from their standpoint on effective opponent but they had respect for him why because he was a decent person respected others he sure he was president of the Student Government Howard University of Phi Beta Kappa he an intellect integrity and great moral strength and we're going to miss him very all of the investigation so far starting with the partial transcript but also with all this subsequent investigation that's continuing every day is it pure winning dot com slash C. N. dawn of the new NBA season brings many anticipated debuts Rafer seasons go and a new the facts are looking clearer and clear and the number of defenders of the substance of the president's behavior is still pretty small in the Senate badly and wouldn't extraordinary arc of life he he had just so much accomplish House majority leader Steny Hoyer appreciate your time thank you thank you Anderson Ukraine I'll be talking about that shortly with one of the lawmakers who is actually in the hearing join us right now senior legal analyst Jeffrey toobin she political analysts Gloria Borger and David Gergen question is what's it going to change the Turkish government has got exactly what it wanted well I haven't seen the agreement but I think the Turks are right they got exactly what they wanted and very frankly probably the Iranians speech was going to go forward it certainly looks like it will in the house and will there be any leakage of his support in the Senate that doesn't appear to be the case so far but you know the our to to trade US Tax dollars US taxpayer dollars for dirt on his political opponents and you know all using knowledgeable of a quid pro quo though he didn't use those words have gone from very very bad too much much worse for the President what does this do to the impeachment orders misconstrued them he answered directly Jonathan Karl Question About it Anderson I've had a chance to go back before he made the pivot related to the DNC server absolutely no question about that that's it and that's why we held up the money period end of sentence the minorities spoken today through their leader and said how much they felt his personal respect he was a fierce advocate and let me just read you something it's so stunning that he would take it back it's a little like Alice through the looking glass because here's what he said did the President mentioned to me in passing the corruption their victims the Kurds are happy about it remember to create an ad like this one I've seen all at least some of this kind of drama play out from the inside during the Nixon administration he's also senior political analyst Jeff so Adam Schiff today said that the era La Opening night twenty nine thousand nine presented by Auto Trader Coverage Begins October twenty second at five thirty on t we're talking tonight about today's stunning admission by the Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney the White House and now his pivot away from it on whether the president with his help and the help of others engage in a quid pro quo with the president of Ukraine clean up the comments in the briefing room he was asked repeatedly about the admitted quid pro quo and and he didn't know he didn't look he was adopting sort of clearly acknowledged that he clearly has was under instructions from others including the president to walk it back he's tried but I I think most people the Rudy Giuliani and Donald trump strategy which is kind of yeah we did it so what there's nothing wrong with it you know it's done all the time get over it folks you only get the money if you help us win the election not because you help us national security international relations the only thing we want before you issued a statement to check out the website today major publications how did they interpret his original press conference and what he said all eight walk away saying yeah they walked back in really succeed because he said the Truth First Time Yeah I'm glory the Mulvaney had multiple opportunities a benefit for the president well that's right out of all the things you could talk about end Ukraine certainly has corruption problems the only thing they're talking about all eight unanimously agreed that he said that there was a quid pro quo and basically this is done all the time in foreign policy get over it we're gonNA take a quick break from Gloria David Jaffe also type more than the president's claim that securing a five day pause and Turkey's invasion of northern series quote a great day for Civilization Susannah Look Mulvaney away didn't even have to say that because the president we we have the summary of his phone conversation he knows that is incredibly damning I mean you can't even spin find me dirt on Joe Biden as anti-corruption in Ukraine it's Oh the DOJ interpreted that way and backed away from what he said saying that's news to us the president's attorneys Jay Secolo backed a and that clearly this is not fake news is which what their their claim is it this is all just a made up conspiracy hurt the White House they they the he day was probably in his in his press availabilities telling the truth about about you know what the president had said DNC not Russia Mulvaney is claiming jeff that's all about corruption in Ukraine when it's not at all it's about back now Jeff Toobin Gloria Borger and David Gergen David once again the White House saying believe is not what you see what you hear but we'll veins comments I mean they are on tape saying money to the Ukrainians taxpayer money and and what the White House has done in what they admitted today was amy lied about the Biden side of I think he clearly lied about us because we have that from the president's own mouth in the partial transcript that what they really want you know what you know what the problem was about crowds strike and all the rest and that they wanted Ukrainians look into corruption he called it a look back it's just end the president by the way hasn't done mulvaney any favors on that by going out and again calling for Ukraine to investigate the Biden's and China which he said you know what Biden has done is terrible and you know you ought to do me a favor though I think the I think the phrase was and so- Mulvaney from you is help defeat Democrats that is wrong that's why this what Malvinas claiming is that are orn to protect and defend the constitution in his role as the president's personal attorney and he also has a vested business interests apparently interest in our interest in finding about the server and that Ukraine and were it was really behind that hacks of the the in Ukraine that stretches back for years and it turns out in Turkey as well and he's advising the president pressuring the president on Turkish matters is this weird obsession with this fake story about the two thousand sixteen election now I do think I in fairness I should I should say that Whoa this is not just some like Gotcha thing because we all want to like get something on the and the chief of staff here we have congressionally appropriated money Congress says give this I have news for everybody get over it there's going to be political influence in foreign policy get over it he said followed by a half truth away from that saying well he didn't consult with us before he said this so everybody heard it the same way can I just point out why this matters I mean on it was dirt to us not about two thousand sixteen with they really wanted was dirt to use against Joe Biden Gloria the reason he lied about that is because he needs to turn over documents he needs to clear his good name and that's why this investigation must must continue for a while I think they've got a lot odd it's not illegal it's not impeachable the president gets to us who he wants to US president wants to fire me today and hire somebody else he can't actual president gets to set but I think we would all agree that there's a look back to two thousand sixteen component and there's a look ahead to twenty and David David I want to play something that Mulvaney he said in the briefing room when he was asked if Giuliani's role in this was problematic let's listen you may not like the fact that Giuliani was involved that's great that's foreign policy and he gets to choose who to do so it shouldn't just be David I mean I don't think we're as far as I know Rudy Giuliani doesn't have a security clearance Rudy Giuliani hasn't well that's exactly right and Mulvaney is yup put the Rudy Giuliani in the center of this that's exactly where he is and he needs to be but what they're finding is as I talked to various people as you there are other rock to look under under other things that come out that fill in the picture and I think the country avenue go back to the earlier question you raised I think I have enough evidence that they want to they can impeach tomorrow or something you know they've got a lot of evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors as they would define it so Congressman Castro who was in hearing this online testimony today and obviously there's a lot you can't say we're GONNA play the interview and just shortly but one of the things deserve to know what's under those rock so I I would think that they were gonNA spend a little more time not to be too rushed to to get to vote it was interesting because I talked to repeated no quid pro quo multiple times this was a very short call and I recall the president was in a bad mood just before airtime I spoke to Democratic Congressman Joaquin Castro who sits the Intelligence Committee hearing Congressman Castro. I know you can only say so much but what can you tell us about investor or someone's testimony today the takeaways for you well it seems like every day the case for impeachment of Donald Trump gets stronger and stronger and that was certainly the case today being to ambassador son you're right Anderson there's only so much that I could say even in his opening statement and it was true during his testimony as well it's clear that he affirms that Rudy Giuliani had a direct role in acting for the president and dealing with Ukrainians and from what we know of the whistle blower complaint the transcript of the phone call between the president and the Ukrainian President Ukrainian president carrying out the onion here and spending ten hours with Sunland you're gonNA find out with whom he spoke in every conversation about Ukraine and how they were kind of focused attention on some other players which they knew were involved but they didn't realize or have a sense of how central or the president trump when you combine that with what Mick Mulvaney said today he basically went up to the water's edge and said yes politics played a role in Juliani and I quote Mr Giuliani emphasize that the president wanted a public statement from President Zelinski committing Ukraine to look into anti-corruption issues. Mr Giuliani trying to kind of work around a Rudy Giuliani and I think you know the thing about Rudy Giuliani we have to remember is that he was being paid by the Ukraine Amiens and also using the president in a way to get his business don and maybe the president will understand at some point that he was being used access to every game being played across the association every night with all new ways to watch through the NBA APP visit Mba dot com or the NBA to get started important role they may have played some other names which haven't been out there quite as much again he wouldn't go into detail but if that's the case then to you know to the point of theirs typically mentioned the two thousand sixteen election including the DNC server and burrito meaning the Biden says to anti-corruption investigatory topics of importance for the president in component of this about the Giuliani searching for dirt and the president wanting dirt on on Democrats until some time later much later some of your how we were dealing with the Ukraine the case for impeachment got a lot stronger today the master in his opening statement also seemed to indicate that he didn't know about the wrote crazy to withhold security assistance for help but they political campaign sudden on as you may remember took nearly five hours to reply to that text and we've since learned he called the president more stones to to be turned over well you know they're getting look the whistleblower gave them the roadmap the original roadmap and now they're kinda peeling the layers of the up as I said I'll talk with Congressman Castro who is in the room can't get enough of the NBA sign up for NBA League pass the Selective Amnesia did you find his testimony credible yeah there were a lot of instances where he said I don't recall or I don't remember and often it this was a witness who went in there today to save himself and he was willing I think to be more frank and his discussion about what others around him were doing more so than to be frank and candid about what he did and just in terms of any possible quid pro quo did the ambassador investor Sunlen there's also a key witness because of comments he made in text messages in them he discussed military aid to Ukraine with Merck top diplomat their bill Taylor who said it was testimony do anything to help clarify why exactly foreign aid was withheld from Ukraine. I mean I think it added to everybody's understand sending everybody can't say everybody in the room but many of us in the room I think came away believing that there was a quid pro quo that it was a day Tuesday on TBS prepare to be miserable on an old with this theme political favor for aid and assistance in Ukraine and certainly an ambassador didn't do anything to dispel that notion and where he sent a response today's said and I quote I call President Trump directly I asked the president what do you want from Ukraine the president responded nothing there is no quid pro quo the times it is true that it related to questions about his direct role in all of these events that is true my impression overall is so we're GONNA have to deal with that separately but other witnesses I believe we'll still come forward and as you know these are all pieces of the puzzle and each witness I think has been very helpful congress in helping us get a fuller picture of what exactly happened and why the president was trading political favors for foreign assistance and just finally in his testimony Ambassador Sunland also implicated a few more folks who may not have been completely off the radar but he certainly moved the attack on tbs testimony from a Fourth State Department witness in house impeachment inquiry this week just wrapped up he said this in his opening statement about welcome kindergarten is back to school get possessed by TV's funniest game show are we sure wasn't just career day watch the misery index a new game show premieres Tuesday how long was he in there for several hours this was on all of these interviews and depositions some of them have gotten delayed such a thing exists and could you get it yeah I'm still not clear about that there may be somebody who is clear about that but I'm still not clear about it I'm on the Intelligence Committee yeah I think so now some of them as you know like Rudy Giuliani and others the vice president for example have said that they're not going to cooperate with the Congress hi everyone poppy harlow here on this week's episode of boss files salesforce founder and CEO Mark Benny off he's out with a new book trailblazer he not it's there's there's areas that that seems to just have one word that need other words do you know or something you know today that you didn't know yesterday I mean there's many different components and I wish that I could speak more freely about it but I will say this hi everyone I'm excited about the inspiring guests we have joining us this season on boss files this week it's Dallas Mavericks. CEO Cynthia Marshall Leagues have cast doubt on parts of his testimony saying that it was quota a lot of see Cya cover your you know what and that he feared to have invasion to Syria success talk to the former Republican chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee who says it is anything but and the Foreign Affairs Committee so I'm on two of the three committees that are handling the impeachment inquiry right now but you're right we need to figure that out and started just finally told me capitalism as we know it is dead he thinks billionaires like

president Rudy Giuliani Ukraine Mick Mulvaney vice president Anderson Ukraine Amiens Donald Trump Sunland congress TBS Ambassador Sunland Biden Dallas Mavericks Foreign Relations Committee NBA Foreign Affairs Committee Syria Congressman Castro
Day 992: Trump's White House is ready to go to war with Dems over impeachment

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

44:39 min | 10 months ago

Day 992: Trump's White House is ready to go to war with Dems over impeachment

"Tonight the White House goes to war over impeachment pushing back in an eight page letter the experts say doesn't hold up and relies on legal powers they don't have bottom line though it says no cooperation this day started when a big name failed to show one of trump's ambassadors central to this Ukraine Investigation Brussels to Washington to do it but was ordered not to appear shortly before his scheduled deposition this morning president trump offered this explanation and the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee today accused the State Department of withholding information from Ambassador Sunland we are also aware paid in this partisan inquiry under these circumstances the administration's letter asks Speaker Pelosi to abandon the impeachment inquiry but stopped short of demanding that the ambassador has text messages or emails on a personal device which have been provided to the state of Bihar because the president doesn't have the right to have counsel present to ask questions for subpoena power to present evidence this entire thing is a political charade Eric and people will be regarded as further evidence of obstruction. The administration's letter was sent hours after the White House abruptly pulled the string and what we see in this impeachment is a kangaroo court there has not been a vote to launch an impeachment inquiry because minority does not have any rights for subpoenas subpoena for a key witness tonight the White House notified Speaker Pelosi and three House committee chairman took them eight pages to do it that they have no intention of cooperating recovering from a heart attack admits it has forced some upcoming changes in his campaign all of it as the eleventh hour gets underway on this Tuesday night who of this trump administration and it's all the president launched something of a new scorched earth offensive against the impeachment investigation and House Democrats strike back with the although we have requested those from the ambassador and the State Department is withholding those messages as well the House is now issuing a subpoena to Sunland demanding unquote I would love to send ambassador Sunland a really good man and great American to testify but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court the full House not long ago the speaker responded writing quote the White House should be warned that continued efforts to hide the truth the president's abuse of power from the stopped Gordon Sandland the US ambassador to the European Union from testifying the lawmakers on Capitol Hill Sunlen had flown from aide earlier today secretary of State Mike Pompeo who remember is this ambassador boss refused to respond to questions about why ambassador son action it calls the investigation constitutionally invalid and a violation of due process and had argued that the president cannot permit his administration to Partic- with Ukraine's president and the concerns raised by other US officials acting ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor a career diplomat message online that right there kangaroo court was clearly today's talking point and we know that because trump's house republicans were so excited to say it out loud well good evening once again from our NBC News Headquarters here in New York Day nine nine hundred announced by October fourteen testimony by October sixteen that's a week from tomorrow texts released last week revealed Saen Lund's involvement in trump's she conversations with the inquiry the administration's letter signed by White House counsel paths SIP Baloney Accuses the Democrats of seeking do quote overturn the results of the two thousand sixteen quote I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign NBC News has confirmed earlier reports that sauna replied to alert after talking with President trump and he texted back in part quote the president has been crystal clear no quid pro quos of any kind he added is suggest we stopped the back and forth by text another State Department official the former ambassador to Ukraine is scheduled to testify to Congress Friday she to a career diplomat not clear however whether she will be allowed to appear meanwhile the New York Times is reporting on new details about that already tonight sources are telling NBC News The trump administration is consulting with former Republican Congressman Trey Goudy of Benghazi fame was a no show in front of Congress the official was visibly shaken by what they had witnessed that official also reportedly described the call as quote completely lacking in substance related to national secure crane trump call back in July time says according to the whistle blowers memo of the call a White House official described the conversation as crazy and frightening about impeachment related matters earlier today Senator Lindsey Graham Chair of the Judiciary Committee let's not forget invited trump's personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani the testify about his role and trying to get Ukraine to investigate the Biden's Giuliani has signaled that is unlikely were also a Syrian army is about to cross over the Turkish Syrian border. This is a big deal this follows president trump's decision to pull US troops out of Northern Korea after that weekend conversation he had with Erta Juan he's been subject to withering criticism ever since today trump announced the Turkish president will be that old term stonewalling is back in our lexicon it seems to me it worked for this administration on aspects of the Muller reports stonewalling reporter for the Los Angeles Times and back with us Joe Wind Banks Attorney Former Assistant Watergate special counsel good evening and welcome to you all Peter Baker sitting the White House next month here for our leadoff discussion on a Tuesday night Peter Baker chief White House correspondent for the New York Times we welcome to the broadcast. Molly O'Toole oh keeping a close eye tonight on developments in the Middle East Reuters news agency quoting an aid to the Turkish President Erdogan reports Turkey's military along with the free out to other presidents who faced impeachment modern times the idea is you turn the issue into the behavior of your opponents you try to make the process the me you try to focus on anything except for your own presents behavior in this case the idea is to say this is illegitimate This is unfair this partisan it's a witch worked for them in person when Lewin douse key went before the committee and yet for much of it was not present are do they think they can win certainly in the Clinton case to interview witnesses before the committee that's not the case this time so there are some substantive differences here now the problem for trump White House in this going forward that way and does this ever end with another sitting president to post yeah that's a great question look this is a strategy to take it from the playbook correct that if you have an exoneration you don't silence the witness in terms of what they can get away with they have gotten away with this the full House voted to have an impeachment inquiry that did give the Republicans some ability to seek subpoenas and interview witnesses and the President's lawyers had the opportunity up until now and Congress finally standing up to this kind of nonsense they've claimed absolute immunity executive privilege houses have had done it if she chooses to Jill wine banks about this ambassador Sunland he may have really wanted to testify today and we may never know Joyce they've stopped witnesses and by the way during Watergate when Nixon said I'm not turning over any tapes Senator Irvine who was conducting the hearings authorize it and also the rules were very different back then now congress has much more independent authority to call witnesses and issue subpoenas they said executive privilege it's executive poppycock and that's what this letter from Pat Simple Oni is it is executive poppycock that be constitutionally can the White House do this can they just tell Congress to go pound salt they're not going to cooperate yes Joyce's absolute Dan and should proceed as they are going about their business and they should not allow people to get away with just totally stonewalling it's tweeted this about them pulling his appearance no-one prevents a witness who can exonerate them from testifying so I WANNA get your response to want to use the phrase and it recognizes what the president said last week even in public that the Democrats almost surely have the votes to impeach him should they choose to do so most likely it'd be wrong there's no truth to it also just want to correct the record a little during Watergate they started the impeachment hearings before there was a vote to that he's produced has some you know has accurate observations about how this impeachment is different than previous ones it is true that under Clinton and Nixon they also potentially have the angle that as others have said why prevent someone from coming before Congress from sharing documents if they don't have anything what they need and at the same time that every attempt to obstruct the inquiry and further investigation is obstruction of justice but I think the party lines it with the president is doing and setting predicate for saying if they do it won't be legitimate in the first place that's what he's trying to tell voters that's we try to tell his fellow Republicans now the letter itself Orden sunland would be preventing prevented from appearing Tuesday a handful of GOP lawmakers went to the White House to discuss discuss the issue a proven momentum killer it works that's why people employ it but what counter-strategy are you hearing the Democrats may employ well it's don't need to declare the authorization for impeachment at this time which they needed to back in the seventies so I think they making this claim is the constitution doesn't say anything about this stuff the constitution basically says the power of the House and that means a Nancy Pelosi could do differently than the previous with trump and senior advisers White House officials agreed to improve communication of their impeachment strategy with allies who are on the front lines. It's hard to say at this point I do think that the speaker and the Democrats feel that they have the momentum with them we've seen this sort of support for the impeachment increase it occurs to me Peter Baker the Pentagon is full of people with stars on their shoulders who had no heads up on the Syria decision either now that's exactly tick up in the polls they're also making the argument it's sort of difficult argument to make but that they already have what they need they have the president's words in the White House owns being with Bill Taylor who is the diplomat in Kiev that there was a linkage between the holding up of security aide and the demand for investigations you would think therefore has oh I'm so glad you asked that question because they are totally confused about our legal system we have grand juries and we have trial juries right Peter Breaker there's a lot of this going around and I speak of the dynamic our colleagues over at Bloomberg right about I'll read this to you frustrated that they didn't get a heads up that summary of the call they have the whistle blower complaint which to a large extent has been corroborated they have the text messages between US diplomats so they're making argument that they have at the intimidated by the defendant this is like asking presidents Alinsky were you pressured when he's sitting next to the president and it was saying telling him he could not testify this is done abruptly at the last minute leaving even Republican allies a little bit flabbergasted they did think it would be a good idea for him to testify they did the kangaroo court exception to the constitution is one that's missed a lot of lawyers but you know what they're doing is fighting in the court of public opinion rather than in an illegal court and Jill it would be a good witness for the president because remember in those text messages Coordi- online is the one who says no there is no quid pro quo now he might have done he did do it after talking to the president and therefore maybe you can they they call it a full halt tonight full halt any cooperation because we're trying to say is nothing about this is legitimate so therefore y y you know involved at all and the grand jury meets in secret it is a tool of the prosecution to develop the evidence to call witnesses in secret so that they will not and few skating diverting attention from the facts that are really at issue here which are very clear molly great to have you let's start with this word stonewalling it is will happen in the trial in the Senate that's the trial jury right now the house is acting as a grand jury and should be allowed to continue inside both Turkish I'm sorry the Kurdish area from the South I got the Turkish attack wrong at the start of that graph it's a lot molly and he apparently got a call at twelve thirty in the morning half an hour after your show ended last night on the voice mail saying no say the state Oh he is totally dependent for military aid that would be the same thing as if you had the president sitting in the room with the grand jury you can't have that you need excess clearly at defeating Isis and routing it in the Islamic state in Iraq and Syria but they're so they're very real consequences but it's interesting as Mrs and cross examined the right to discover the evidence that's going to be used against you make objections is there any guaranteed right to that be impeached then he has made himself a king he is not the democratic ruler of a Democracy Malia let's turn overseas the legal court I don't know much but I've seen law and order and the Republicans are asking for all these courtroom rights that we know from TV shows like the right to call so told that Kurdish appears coordinated with the Russians russian-backed forces are mobilizing to invade the Kurdish area from the south to develop the evidence and then the defendant gets anything that was exculpatory and the defendant gets to question the witnesses against him that's what discount that message that he sent as as being simply repeating what the president told him but there's nothing in the messages on that regard this has agreed into the conversation this from David Ignatius of the Washington Post a bad situation in northeast Syria about to get much worse sources tell me that US officials if you know the area and I know you know the area this moment was Turkish forces poised to head into Syria across the border puts a lump in your throat I want Peter said to connect it in a way with the context of the impeachment there's also concern that as the president feels increasingly embattled told our viewers what they need to know well there are serious implications to this clearly for the conflict in Syria that has been ongoing hasn't gotten much attention in the US because it's been somewhat of a stalemate there will be clear and likely devastating consequences for the Kurds that have been such a key US ally groot to develop evidence but they have to have witnesses and if the president can get away with saying I can't be investigated I can't be indicted I can't a terrific guests to start us off tonight our thanks to Peter Baker Tamale old tool and digital wind banks appreciate it very much coming up for us hi it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go subscribe to the Msnbc daily newsletter you'll get the best this is a White House that is making decisions on the fly and making them the very last minute signs Gordon so online of course is based in Brussels he had flown all the way here to testify today what you've missed during this unprecedented era of news text MSNBC to six eight six six to subscribe and as adversaries they'll feel increasingly emboldened to perhaps take advantage of the situation and I think that's what we saw at least with the White House and is there could be serious destabilization of the region it's been suggested by analysts who are concerned this could actually heralds the resurgence of Isis When there had been excuse me I've just informed the Syrian Kurds that Turkey is likely to attack on air and ground in next twenty four hours the US will do nothing is aren't there I think it's fair to say as Americans head to bed tonight half a world away what's GonNa go on tonight may not be America's finest hour To push the Kurds away from the border it's clearly very important for the Russians to meet some sort of maintain some sort of influence in that situation so there are very real consequences movement in a letter to the White House Foreign Affairs Committee Chair Eliot Engel Democrat of New York warned leaving the treaty would be quote a reckless action that would only with this offensive now in the last couple days that's been walked back but clearly the Turks if they're about to cross the border tonight they're not exactly heating the president's warnings that have been this issue and it's a moving target the eleventh hour is just getting started a view of the West Wing on Tuesday night allows for unarmed reconnaissance flights over other countries specifically each other's countries like Russia and Ukraine to monitor military schol characterization on Sunday it effectively was well the president spoke to President Erdo on the Turkish President and we've decided to step aside and let them move forward senior House Democrats are sounding the alarm over reports that president trump is planning to pull the US out of something called the Open Skies Treaty it's an agreement the president calls the impeachment inquiry scam but are people listening to that new polling out tonight on where Americans now stand on the particularly in the fight against the Islamic state in Syria and in Iraq as well they're very important to president of Turkey issued since then so that sort of a contextual concern to the impeachment inquiry as well what else is happening in national security and Foreign Policy when all Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton again and for emphasis while the words Senate report may not have the impact they once did the Dan bipartisan call from Congress at least on the Senate side for sweeping action Republican Senator Richard Burr Republican senator from North Carolina following was put out by Republicans and Democrats in an era when Republicans and Democrats don't do anything jointly according to this report suit and author of messing with the enemy surviving and a social media world of hackers terrorists Russians and fake news clint Benifit Russia Putin hates this treaty that warning comes as the president is peddling a conspiracy theory that it was really Ukraine that interfered in you move to pull the US out of a tree agreement with the Russians Democrats charge it would be a gift to Putin so why would we want to do a thing like that and two thousand sixteen election just today the Senate came out however with a bipartisan report unequivocally condemning the Kremlin for trying to help China North Korea Iran are following suit. We have the man to talk to tonight Clint Watts former FBI special agent distinguished research fellow at the Foreign Policy Research in had this warning quote while Russia may have been the first to hone the modern disinformation tactics outlined in this report other adversaries including gifts his congressional hearing now he's been subpoenaed Democrats want to know what the president told him and win and in politics polls have moved on impeachment and Bernie Sanders efforts were a vastly more complex strategic assault on the United States than was initially understood much of this was lay out in the Muller report but this is the first right and we quote Russia's targeting of the twenty sixteen US presidential election was part of a broader sophisticated and ongoing information warfare campaign goes on to say Russia's we'll get to the end you really go it sounds like we're not GonNa do anything honest ads act we talked about that this is declaring cannons in government in order to win election as we can see from our current news cycle. I guess we're going to willingly go look for that stuff and so I think when you look at the social it's hard to believe that your area of expertise is now part of a bipartisan Senate report it's hard to believe this kind of thing isn't our lead story in two thousand nineteen so declaring that is their ads to help distinguish mothers should deal not pass should be election integrity act not passed other provisions do you take assistance from foreign let me ask you how are we going to bump up against this in twenty twenty how big a threat is this is remarkable when you get to the end of the report that's what I was really looking for because we've heard so much about leanest with stuff and the recommendations when you got to the end is let's increase public literacy let's put out awareness social media companies you need to do something about it and so should earlier jail in Bali of said that would be something that the president would want testified to but look they've decided to throw down the and it's not about one witness they decided it across the board at this over the last two years is what are we going to do we've had all of these hearings and committees multiple into these other countries even you know the apart who is actually stepped up surprisingly I don't think I would have said this two years ago are the social media companies in many ways they're doing weekly if not daily take down times between facebook twitter Google Youtube other platforms they're doing this sort of stuff but to stay in front of it L. ultimately comes down to WHO's going to police sit down with a person uniquely suited to explain why this is happening new episodes of why is this happening every Tuesday listen for free wherever you get your podcasts first of all the impeachment inquiries a scam you can't impeach a president for doing a great job this is a scam and reckon opinions on impeachment are on the move they're changing so as Steve Kornacki making his way to the big board to walk us through the numbers when we come back process and we're an easy mark because we were good people we believe in a free and open society and media off not saying they've done this but what an opportunity in Ukraine you have the president reaching out to Ukraine wanting dirt on his opponent now DOJ's got its own report coming out that may read like something of a weird rebuttal to this the attorney general's flying around the world talking to foreign governor people allies to it contrary to what the president had to say just yesterday three new polls are out just today they show support for impeachment is truly on the move being held to the truth being the bears facts being the government that we can trust to do the best for all Americans if they just did that one step this would be completely the independent Pennsylvania Avenue we're seeing a ramp of of that rhetoric instead of actually trying to tamp down and I was GonNa say what about the backdrop we're operating under well then this would probably work itself out I won't take stolen won't talk about stolen information from another campaign this would work itself out for from our current Senate our thanks as always to clint watts for stopping by our studio and taking our questions coming up we have new numbers they all show the same thing rants about hey can you drop a dime on people on the home team back in the United States that's dangerous and even pressuring the Australians who were the first of really tip off a big big way doing disinformation misinformation how are we going to do this and the really comes down to Capitol Hill and the White House and it seems like on both sides of this is our democracy going into twenty twenty final point this isn't hard Russia spent like four dollars a day and completely bollock stop our society in our electoral for that our national political correspondent Steve Kornacki is back with us and at the big board where he belongs as Steve Abrams that's right is

president White House trump trump Peter Baker US Muller Ambassador Sunland House Intelligence Committee chief White House corresponden Speaker Pelosi Bihar Washington Russia Ukraine State Department Chairman Russia Eric
Wednesday, October 9, 2019

Westwood One Daily News Flash Briefing

07:31 min | 10 months ago

Wednesday, October 9, 2019

"The trump administration has notified the house it will not participate in the impeachment probe led by Democrats a letter to Speaker Nancy from the nation's capital Washington DC this is Westwood One Daily News for October Ninth Twenty Nineteen I'm John Trout c'mon inquiry but representative Jordan tells reporters he doesn't see it that way accusing Democrats of Cherry picking text messages from Ambassador Sunland that don't paint the full the Gators House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff says he fully expected that the US ambassador to the European Union would attend his deposition. This was after conversation ramping up the pressure on the trump administration in the impeachment inquiry even as the White House says it will not cooperate with the investigation a strongly worded letter from the White House protections Mr Trump has made clear there will be no cooperation unless the full House votes to launch an impeachment inquiry that attitude was on display Tuesday morning speaker Nancy Pelosi the president has said article to give says I can do whatever I want no it doesn't Mr President the president's letter saying he would not by the State Department to not appear on Capitol Hill on land was set to give a deposition centering on text messages among diplomatic staff about Ukraine and president trump's wishes the house impeachment investigation constitutionally invalid has set the stage for a constitutional showdown between two branches of government our constitution the genius new NBC News Wall Street Journal Poll shows just over half of all Americans think the allegations against the president are serious and should be fully investigated and fifty three percent operate with the impeachment investigation was not entirely a surprise it came after the administration and the State Department Prohibited Gordon Sunland from testifying before House Invest Awesome reads the letter demonstrates that the Democrats inquiry elax any legitimate constitutional foundation any pretense of fairness and even the most elementary due process committee chair Adam Schiff he says the refusals will be looked at directly as an impeachable offense to be further acts of obstruction of a co equal branch of government it is a system of checks and balances that we would have three separate coequal branches of the government that had a check and balance on the other house is a sitting ambassador and employees of state and is required to follow their direction that's a statement from the lawyer for European Union Ambassador Gordon Sunland ordered wins well into yesterday afternoon and evening with the State Department legal adviser in which there was no indication that the ambassador would be a no show Republican Jim Jordan's in a way in true facts are not allowed out for the Public Republicans also back in Washington for the deposition echoed the idea of kangaroo court left at the altar again house Intel for that country to investigate Joe and Hunter Biden Song Land had arrived in Washington from Brussels for the deposition but preventing his testimony may have been approved by the president who lying is obstruction of Congress and article of impeachment by itself and Speaker Pelosi says the president is just making matters worse for himself that is one of the reasons that we have an and say Mr Trump has not been honest and truthful about his dealings with Ukraine Bob Costantini Washington I'm Linda Kenyon in Washington where Congress has has the GOP also was expecting to hear from Sunland we were actually looking forward to hearing from Ambassador Solid Chairman Adam Schiff says the administration's decision to bar SOM- line from testify tweeted I would love to send a bass online to testify but unfortunately he would be testifying before a totally compromised kangaroo court where Republicans rights have been transcript we understand why they made this decision at this at this moment chairman Adam Schiff also would like to see all of the text messages including those on someone's personal devices picture you're going to selectively league text messages sixty seven pages of text messages we had and they take a handful and released of all of you and not give the full context being held by the State Department those messages are also deeply relevant to this investigation and now that's Onlin was blocked from testifying speaker Pelosi said there will be a subpoena issued for him to come testify then the question becomes whether he will show given the White House directive not to cooperate Linda Kenyon Washington in California millions of people may be left in the dark for days as correspondent Dave Alpert in Los Angeles reports the wide bread preventative blackouts or part of a new plan aimed at halting wildfires warnings are in effect up and down the state we have extreme fire conditions the fire threat means power outages for hundreds of thousands of Californians is utilities turnoff electricity to reduce the risk of wildfires sparked equipment or downed lines during the dry and windy weather pacific gas and electric announced plans to begin de energizing transmission lines in parts of thirty four parties in northern and central California beginning just after midnight the proactive power shutdown affecting nearly eight hundred thousand customers up to a quarter million in the San Francisco Bay area we are looking at various components to make our decision and it includes things like wind speeds wind S.'s dry weather fuel that may be a concerns were starting to run out of supplies ahead of the so-called public safety before gas pumps get turned off traffic lights. ADM's could also be affected here in southern California people are preparing for possible power outages so power shut offs people have been stocking up on ice coolers flashlights lanterns and batteries since they have no idea how long power could be out driver's filling up impact to residents the idea of five days without electricity is devastating and we fully expect that to be a worst case Aurea in Los Angeles I'm Dave Alpert while an iconic toy store is back in time for the holidays correspondent John stomas has more true kids Jose and three committee chairman tries to make the case against cooperating Bob Costantini begins our team coverage from Washington a statement from Press Secretary Stephanie Tale Stores I'm John Stolnis Westwood One Daily News for October Ninth Twenty Nineteen I'm John Trout L. Addison's Don Daler says they'll flip the switch if they have to so with a win conditions are severe enough you see branches flying around hands is teaming up with target to relaunch toys R. US DOT COM according to a joint released by both companies the site which is now live features product reviews and direct people will open in November as part of a smaller comeback by the iconic toy chain target dot com will also power online sales in the new toys R. US experiential to a buy button on the screen at target dot com to complete the purchase the move comes as two new toys R. US brick and mortar stores

US Ambassador Sunland Adam Schiff Gators House Intelligence Comm chairman Washington Westwood One Daily News European Union John Trout Dave Alpert ADM Nancy Jordan Los Angeles representative Cherry California Washington