4 Episode results for "Alma Telescope."
New Evidence of How Dark Matter Behaves
"I love this podcast. Support this show through the acoss support a feature. It's up to you how much you give. And there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. This is space time series. Twenty-three episode one hundred and thirty five full broadcast on the sixteenth of december. Twenty twenty coming up on space time you evidence of how dark matter behaves new discoveries about how planetary nebula created and cape canaveral renamed all that and more coming up on space time. Welcome to space time. We'd stewart gary. Astronomers have discovered new characteristics about mysterious dark matter after watching one galaxy eight and by now the bigger galaxy previous observations had already suggested that this galaxy headlock ten fifty two four and located some forty five million light years away was missing. Most of its dark matter. Scientists don't know what that matter is but they can see its gravitational influence on galaxies stopping them from spinning apart they rotate dark matter seems to interact with normal matter. Only gravitationally and dark matters interaction with normal matter suggests that it makes at least three quarters of all the matter in the universe far more than all the stars planets and galaxies which are composed of normal matter astronomers studying the light in globular cluster distribution in c. ten fifty two deer four detected gravitational tattle disruptions being caused by a larger neighboring galaxy. N ten thirty five. A report on the astro-physical journal concludes that. Nbc ten thirty five's gravity has stripped the dark matter from nbc. Ten fifty two four and the galaxy is now being torn apart. The new observations follow the twentieth eighteen discovery of another galaxy. N ten fifty two d f two which is also missing. Most of its dark matter. That was the first time this has been observed in our cosmic neighborhood. The discovery was surprise for astronomers as it was understood. The dag is a key constituent and current models of galaxy formation and evolution in fact without dark matter the primordial gas lack enough gravity to start collapsing to form galaxies now discovery of a second galaxy n g ten fifty two d of four also liking dark matter. It's triggered intense debate about the nature of these objects. The study's lead author maria montez from the university of new south. Wales says the missing dark matter can be explained by tidal disruption as ngdc ten thirty five tiers n. g. She ten fifty two deer four apart. The dark matters being removed. I leaving the stars and other normal material to be removed later and that's telling journalists something very specific about the nature of dark matter until now the removal of dark matter in this has always been hidden from australia's but thanks to hobbled high resolution. Astronomers could identify this galaxy's globular clusters globular. Cost is a former episodes of intense star formation that shape galaxies these tide balls contain thousands to millions of stars all originally bought at the same time out of the collapse of the same gas and dust cloud the both compact and highly luminous making them easily observable and therefore good traces of the properties of there scallops sees studying characterizing the special distribution of these classes in in eighteen fifty two d of four allowed the authors that vote new insights into the galaxy itself. They found the alignment of the galaxy's globular clusters suggested being stripped from the galaxy bites lodge neighbor supporting the id that tidal disruption is occurring the authors. Also use the giant ten point. Four meter grant scorpio canaries telescope and the eighty telescope both on palmer in the canary islands to provide additional day on the galaxy. And its allied. They found evidence of gravitational tidal tails form by stars gas and dust. Being dragged away from nbc. Ten fifty two day of four by ten thirty five further evidence of title option events. Additional analysis concluded the central parts of the galaxy remain untouched and any of that seven percent of it still a mess is in these tidal tails. The findings mean dark matter which is less concentrated than stars was previously and preferentially stripped from the galaxy. And now the autists components starting to be stripped as well this space time still to come discoveries about how planetary nebula remade and cape canaveral. Kitsen you name all that and more still to come on space time. Astronomers have discovered that those miss marauding spiral structures sitting planetary nebulae a generated by companion stars or planets orbiting around the dying star. The findings reported in the journal. Science based on an extraordinary set of observations of stellar wins around aging stars when stars like our sun run out of hydrogen for fusion into helium. They begin to contract under their own enormous grafitti as they can track regions around the still a co which still contain hydrogen move closer to the core and the region where pressures and temperatures allow hydrogen fusion to take place. This trick is hydrogen burning in a shell around the corner which causes the stars. Adelaide is dramatically expand and being further away from the core the stars fetters. Fear visible surface is noticeably cooler and consequently looks raider the start now quarter red giant experiences a massive increase in it's still a wind production as more more materials flow out from its gaseous envelope. May well the increase in pressure and temperature in the core eventually trick is what's called a helium flash fusing the core helium into carbon and oxygen stars like the sun. Don't contain enough mass. The fuse carbon and oxygen into heavier elements and so they still revolution ends the core now detached from its outta gas. He's envelope is exposed as a white dwarf slowly cooling over the of time and that attached gaseous envelope is referred to as a planetary nebula. But how do these punditry neighborly get stunning shapes well. The study's authors found that country common consensus stella wins generated by stars including the sun and that's vertical but have shaped similar to that of planetary nebulae. That's because of their interaction with accompanying stars or planets still a wins including the solo in coming from the sun a streams of particles expelled by stars which causes them to lose mass because data observations were lacking. Astronomers have always assumed that these winds were very like the stars they surround. fifth centuries. astronomers are in the dark about the causes. The extraordinary variety of colorful shapes of nebula that had been observed all planetary nebula certain symmetry better almost never round one of the study's authors professor lee indecent from the catholic university in laverne belgian. Wanted to know how round staff could produce the spectacular shape seen planetary neighbourly. Her team observed still a winds around cool red giant stars. Using alma the atacama large millimeter submillimeter array radio telescope in chile. They gathered a lodge detailed collection of observations each made using the exact same method allowing them to directly compare data and exclude biases descended colleagues. Found that still a winds answer metric around it can be disc shaped others can be spirals and yet others are shaped more like cones shapes all very similar to those seen in planetary nebulae. This is a clear indication. That shapes weren't created randomly suggesting that avalon stars or planets to small and dim to be detected directly are orbiting in the vicinity of the dying star causing the different patents. The form decent says these companions are a bit like spoon stirring cream into a cup of coffee and creating a spiral pattern. The companion sucks material towards it as it revolves around the star and shapes the stellar wind and computer models based on their hypothesis is confirmed that the stellar winds were being shaped by companions around the primary star and the rate at which the stars losing mass shooter still. A win is an important parameter. Decent says the new findings mean previous mass loss estimates of votes stars could be wrong by factor of up to ten and that would affect calculations of other crucial characteristics of both stellar and galactic evolution. The study also helps to envision what the sun might look like when it does seven billion years time. Jason says the lodge massive raven satin will influence the son's eventual planetary nebula with initial calculations. Suggesting lended states is a what twelve surrounded by wake spiral structure team international astronomers including quite a lot of my phd students and post. Docs from the kyw leuven. We have made breakthrough discovering stellar evolution. So what about you potentially know that our son not very little yellow star and in roughly five thousand million years from now to send will become a red giant star its size will increase. I factor of two hundred slim nause by factor. Thousands enter to become cooler and our search. It'll change from color from yellow to beds and during that phase we know that stars lose a lot of mass by celebrant now actually off the debt that china face a recession will become a planetary neighbor will die as a very little bite trump now planetary neighbor lie. You potentially have seen furby nice pictures on these these splattering neighbor. I have been enriched by for instance the hubble space telescope and you can see a lot of very complex. Fuji's we have disks. You have bipolar old flows. You have even planetary nebula look like a butterfly but already for more than a century. Astronomers are wondering how can a star soon which is not perfectly into than a billiard bill. how can get this complex phases. We have used the alma telescope in chile two largest radio telescope into roles to look at stellar winds of red china stars. We have seen that each of these winds off rich with thoughts in the past that there are fairly symmetric we have seen each of these swings. Horrors of complexities and that the more full ogies indie stellar rinse resembles are fully cheese. That we've seen the planetary nebulae and this led to the first conclusion that it should be the same physics that's shapes both the celebrants and this planetary neighbor. And thus such that we have called the in action but moreover could use all of this data to make categories in this tolerance morphology and that leads to the second and even most important conclusion that we finally could diagnose the cost of this smartphone cheese. Rethink that each of the stars do not live the life long patasse companion and then you can compare it to the cup of coffee and sawmill. Can you steer and into the with your little spoon can create a spiral structure in your coffee. Well actually the companion assuming the same. It goes volunteer threats giants star and it creates a spiral structure very complex spiral in stellar. Rent it can also create a disk for instance. So what does it imply for our own sun route. Actually our simulations show. That's unlikely our own art will be engulfed by our son. When the sun is a challenge star planets jupiter cancer fife and chip with our for winces will create very weak spiral structure in the stellar. wind of. The son wants giants store. So this research is a breakthrough discovery. Since changes are a few on how stars he falls at the end of the lifetime. That's professor lee. Indecent from the catholic university in laverne belgian and this space time. still the come cape canaveral. Renamed and later in the science report warnings that climate change could lead to irreversible sea level rise s temperatures increase all that and more still to come on space time one of the most famous places on earth cape canaveral air force station in florida has been officially renamed the cape canaveral space for station. The move by the us air force which we first four shattered a year ago here on space time is designed to better reflect the primary operations of this fast facility spread out along the central florida atlantic coast. If was as also changed the name of the nearby patrick air force base the patrick space force base both bases which are heavily involved in space operations will still be overseen by the department of the air force which also oversees the space force in the same ways the us department of navy overseas the us marine corps the renaming ceremony which was witnessed by vice president. Mike pence also marks a years since president. Donald trump officially sign the documents bringing the united states. Base falls into existence space time anti-matter take another brief look at some of the other stories making using science this week with the science report and you study warns at the worsening problem of climate change could lead to irreversible sea-level rise as temperatures continuing crease and the greenland. Ice sheet continues klein. The findings reported in the journal. Crise show that this massive ice sheet is now facing a point of no return beyond which will simply no longer be able to recover permanently changing sea levels around the world. The greenland ice sheet has seven times the area of the united kingdom and it still has a large amount of the us frozen water at current rates of building. It's contributing almost a millimeter of sea level. Rise every year and overall it accounts for a quarter of all sea level rise under scenarios in which global warming increases beyond two degrees celsius. Scientists expect significant ice loss and several mehta's of global sea level rise to assist tens of thousands of years and even if temperatures do later returned to current levels. Scientists have shown that the greenland ice sheet will never fully recover once it melts beyond a critical point. After that point sea levels would permanently remain to mehta's high the now regardless of other factors contributing to sea level rise. That's because ice sheet is so huge. It has a substantial impact on its local climate and as it declines raymond will experience temperatures and lists snowfall and wants. The ice sheets retreated from the northern part of the island. The area would remain ice free and you study warns there are now fewer than three hundred swift parrots left in the wild. The findings by the australian national university suggests this highly endangered bird is now facing extinction. Because of major threats such as deforestation this apparently denault medic lifestyle flying around tasmania looking for the best breeding habitats and traveling to mainland australia. Ray j looking for food. You can read the study and its findings in full in the journal. Animal conservation scientists have sequenced the genome of selenium. Pimpernel volume the wild progenitor to the monday cultivated. Tomato tomatoes are the world's leading vegetable crop with total production of one hundred and eighty two million tons worth over sixty billion dollars. Annually selenium pimpernel volume carry small red round fruits. Were i missed a gated. In south america gradually evolved to become the big for tomatoes. We see today a report. In the journal nature communications compared selenium pimpernel fully them with the modern cultivated tomato courthouse. Seventeen six finding more than ninety two thousand genetic variants. Interestingly scientists found that modern cultivated tomatoes had some genetic deletions which would the level of have seen a red pigment with nutritional value and an insertion that reduces sucrose content. No wonder they said to have list tasted the ancient wild varieties. The only dinosaur bones ever found in ireland have been fully confirmed for the first time a report in the journal the proceedings. The geologist association have verified that the two hundred million euros jurassic age fossils fan on the east coast of county. Antrim came from two different dinosaurs. One of the fossils is part of a famous very dense robust. Typically from an armored fully planet accords. Kalita sorace the other. Fossil part of a tibia was slender within burn walls and characteristics. Ernie found fast. Moving to league predatory theropod dinosaurs similar to sacra sorace. Robot vacuum cleaner is that spy on private conversations and forty display modules effecting the touch response on some iphone elevens are among the latest developments in the world of technology with alex. Zahara of roy from it wide dot com. We had the story of google nest thermostat device that got an upgrade. Suddenly you could use it as a google home speaker google assistant speaker and people feel hang on you telling me that there was a microphone. You never advertised that. There's lots of devices. Tv's and other things. There's a reason why a lot of the tv don't have in cameras on them anymore. Because a lot of the tv's have been hacked and people were being spied appointing that are in harm's. Tv's had cameras. Yeah yeah back back. Channel music. The first tv had cameras in them. Because i had built in skype and people were using them long before covid zoom regulation. We have now that. We're using them as john type devices that they those. I mean cameron mainly because these are hackers and there was even a story where former prime minister. Tony abbott was in china. And they just something was wrong. So the turn the tv off and then housekeeping time. The tv on so when the guard lift they took the tv and put it outside because they were worried. That the tv which had microphones and cameras you know at least microphones was being used to make a profit consecutive happening in that hotel room. And that's the story. I read an article that actually happened. But his duty. Still have microphones in them these days. Yeah absolutely yeah. There's a brand new tv. That i'm not sure whether it's in the remote control of the tv itself but you can talk to the built-in alexa and google assistant and you can ask tv to turn on certain channels or turn the volume up down or going to built in pesto video coach. You quoting so absolutely will. Do indeed have microphones if they brand new. Tv's i know they occupy four has a microphone in it right. Yeah and that's several months be switched on but now they're advertising it on. Tv vacuum cleaners spot computer. Scientists at the national university of singapore have demonstrated that it is possible to spy on private conversations using a common ragwort backing cleaner and building light detection and ranging sense which lend lie though repurposing the light sensor that the rug cleaning normally usa navigate around your son into a laser microphone which have eastern on private conversations. Now the right book back and clean. It doesn't have the mantra go kim. But the light sensor which visible gang license which normally used to create a map of the surroundings with legs and the chance and tables that's the thing socializers of coming up much dust or whatever it might be and the could been information about the original sound that night objects of vibrate then using applied signal. Crisis leading calgary. Beach can be recovered from the audio data and sensitive information could potentially be a time to do that now with the wind wellstone. Well apparently that the team says that it in the collected monty now recorded audio files. Possums through deep learning algorithms that we're trying to match invoices or identify musical sequences and the system was able to detect egypt's spike allowed. Which of course the credit card or beck account number so disaster should keep my cell phone in the microwave oven. When i'm not using it and i'm having a confidential conversation with somebody well snowden. Did they win when he had people come to visit him before. He was spirited off to russia. He i've done. This herber was to put the phones in the fridge because it was hired. I catch but but basically stop any signals going. You know but it's just incredible that a lot of the things predicted in nineteen ninety four or previous fox. Movies has the amount of artificial intelligence and machine lending increases base. Things become possible issues with the offense live and tell me about them. Yeah well apple is determined that a small percentage of the iphone eleven. That's the only golfing every pros displays. Nice stop responding to touch. And that's an issue with the display much now. These devices were manufactured between november twenty nineteen and may twenty twenty. So it's not all hyphen eleven. It's just a select number of and apple says that if you spend eleven has been exhibiting this issue if you just kinda like program you'll find the link somewhere on google that we'll take you straight to apple support page and then you can type in you often eleven serial number to save effected the will replace free of charge. And they'll do that for two years pretty much from now that's alekseev right from. It wide dot com cast recommends more podcasts. More episodes more great shows. Keep listening to hear show we recommend. Hey everyone i met. Meyer doria sha free and we are married and hosts a podcast called matin dory's excellent adventure ivf journey. It's a podcast about us going through. Iv effort recorded in real time. It's true and it's really about the highs but the many many lows of going through. Ivf so yeah. We have a one and a half year old son. We did eventually get pregnant. You wanna hear what it's like to be married and the parents of a toddler well also discussing ivf each week. Listen to our podcast. We also hear from listeners. Who have their own questions about infertility childbirth parenthood et cetera et cetera. Et cetera. What it's like to be married to. Matt i'm to say probably pr- diaz Yeah well if you want to hear the answer to an end of the show doors. Excellent adventure wherever you get your podcasts cash. And that's the shut for now. Space-time is available every monday wednesday and friday through apple podcasts. I tunes stitcher. Google podcasts hockett casts spotify cast amazon music bites dot com soundcloud youtube your favorite podcast download provider and from space time with stewart gary dot com space times also broadcasts through the national science foundation on science own radio and on both iheart radio and tune in radio. 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"I love this podcast. Support this show through the acoss support a feature. It's up to you. how much give. And there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Police officer shot and killed a black woman in her own home incident after after. Say they're named a podcast that focuses on the assault and killing of unarmed black people by police and in stand your ground state on the mother. Florence sister uncle grandmother bluer best friends. We are humanizing these headlines figuring out who these victims really work before the hashtags say their name. You can listen on the app or wherever you get your podcast. Guidance who've been journal chan nine ignition sequence fat nuts three to four hours report. It feels good along once again. Thank you for joining us. This is the space nuts. Podcast my name is andrew dunkley your host and joining me as always as professor fred. What's an astronomer at lodge. Hello fred hello andrew. How are you this own. See you using a new interface today on tested by the way this could get belly up real quick but now does is to say each other which we haven't done for months and then well it's very good. They can't see each other because we know that it's really the same person that we want to make a difference because we can sort of fail disasters i can. I can do things that people can't say that that one that one. Anyway it's good. It's really good now. We've got a lot to cover today so we get started. The twentieth anniversary of the international space station with permanent occupancy has just passed and that's been celebrated offered a few stories about that On the other side of the coin something not to celebrate is at demise probably going to happen in two thousand and sixty. I if you re popular press But will it. we will allow certainly Look into that Some strange discovery in titan's atmosphere. It seems to be an era of finding things in planetary atmospheres. We had venus not so long ago. And now tighten Has got something popping up and will answer some audience questions a couple of repairs. Did i read audio questions to Somebody asking about using telescopes at the equator and if that creates certain difficulties and the evolution of life on other planets would have different. Would it be depending on the circumstances they face. It's a really good question. We'll tackle all of that today. But i read the twentieth anniversary of the iss. I clearly remember when all hullaballoo went on about them launching this thing and getting up there and not twenty years later. It's still going strong in the bay is worse than ever. That's probably true. Yeah look i. it's a milestone. You know this is some. I think it's one of the things that we can. We can genuinely celebrate so the second of november. Two thousand The crew the first crew at joint and all the first covenant crew. If i can put it that way joined the space station. So it's been continuously inhabited ever since then That was a cold expedition. One so they the a number that crews were currently the crew that something aries expedition sixty four so things have moved on a lot. But i think the international space station is just an absolute icon. First of all international cooperation. It is a place where national boundaries really full very low in. Yeah aid because of course it's a it's a they're five space agencies involved the nasa of course roscosmos the russian space agency Jaksa japanese face agency isa european space agency and the canadians spice agency and many other organizations as well but there the principal players in the game and You know what we've learned from. The international space station is an extraordinary amount. Just about the way the universe works about you know the basically the the way humans work the way a physics works in space because lots of zero gravity experiments or microgravity experiments have been tried out a just a couple of statistics so far it has hosted two hundred and forty one crew members and a few spice tourist. You might remember back in the early two thousand from nineteen countries. So it's a lot of people have been on board the space to have any ozzy's no that's not true. Andy think candy. Thomas is being here. yes i think. Thomas is quoted on the space station on these Main space right. Those on mir when the mir space station was lying he was there for over a year. I think in the long period. It's a it's an impressive achievement. And lockup of said before you've got this international cooperation which soda sometimes flaws. In the face of the issues we're having on earth mainly economic but It is something that from. Time to time Sort of count is what the country's doing with each other on the planet which i find astounding but i'm also glad that when they're off the planet they're up there floating around doing what they do. They're all nights. And i think that's yeah that's right this. I promise it can just broke a very nice conversation piece which was reviled goeman Fairly well who's space out. Carolina on just in walsh who associate professor of art history in archaeology chapman university. They've put together a nice summary of this. You know walks up what the space station is about. A couple of paragraphs one rates the is smelly noisy messy washing shed skin cells and crumbs is like a terrible show house except he can't leave. You have to work all the time. No one gets a good night's sleep out there on some. There are some books that go on. The cupola module offers perhaps the best view available to humans anywhere. A one hundred and eighty degree panorama of the earth passing below liang view in the universe. At the moment. I also heard that. They fixed the alii. can they use tae. Didn't know that now missed out on that one. Yes okay good. An update again accord it. The other day the lake was discovered. And i fixed it using a teabags or something. That was a really. We'd solution but i told you about the that issue in a in a scifi movie with i had an aol lake and i fixed it with dr. Pepe found it with liquid. Dr pepper that came at the hall. I wasn't far wrong. That's right it's stick to your beverage. Beverages will save the world. We need a lot of them in twenty sixty eight frayed. Because apparently that's when we're gonna get smashed into oblivion by an asteroid the doomsday. I'm thinking well it's really interesting object. I think i've talked about this subject before office. yet is yeah so a puffing will have a close approach to earth on and i love the date on friday. The divide the viper twenty. Twenty-nine we know that will happen. And we know that it will come within the ring of g station satellites. We know that it will be visible to the unaided. I will be so near because this thing. Three hundred meters across bank. But what we also know is that it won't hit the us. So that is not that friday the thirteenth twenty. Twenty-nine is not going to be different at say the headlines read you know you know. There's going to be several pipers that it went to gloom in two thousand twenty nine. I just can't go to sell the pipe you know which ones anyway the yes so. That's a definite no hit but there is another close approach in twenty sixty eight and at the moment to the best of analytics not will also be a non hit. It will miss the earth. But what's been recognized. Is that a office his undergoing something cold your ski acceleration and i think we might have talked about this before your comes. Acceleration an comes about when you've got a rotating object being eighty by the sound of course an asteroid is exactly that so if you think about it so if you think about this this thing moving along so bit the side that's facing the sun is getting heat up but it turns out that the hottest part of the surface is not the part directly under the sun at because these things turning so the hottest part the surface is a bit a bit further around it corresponds to about two o'clock enough to If you think of noon being weather sounds directly overhead. The things turned a couple of hours for a bit further not couple of hours on the asteroid because different rotations. Pay up kind of. I'm not making very clear but it means the hottest part is not facing the song it's actually facing slightly backwards and what that means. Is that part of the asteroid is a is releasing rather more. Infrared infrared radiation. The rest of it. So it's non-thermal sorry non uniform thermal radiation interbred and that radiation basically exists a thrust slight very slight thrust on the asteroid. What it means is that the the thing is essentially speeding up the the work. That's been done. This is from the university of hawaii. Sleepy scientists there And one of the day fallen. Who's actually one of the institute for strong scientists who works on this. He says he says the we've known for some time that an impact with is not possible during the twenty twenty thousand nine close approach the new observations. We've obtained With the subaru telescope and forgot to mention subaru is the japanese. Abc telescope of kea in hawaii. First class instrument. I have a subaru lawnmower. There you go. I used to have a soup or something. You know what subaru means. Now it is the japanese word for the and that's why you'll subaru car stars all right that you go let me just go back to the dave felon who says the new. Observations were obtained with the subaru telescope earlier. This year were good enough to reveal the kofsky acceleration of office. They show that. The asteroid is drifting away from purely gravitational obits by about one hundred seventy meters per year which is enough to keep the twenty. Sixty eight scenario implying. Boy so what he's saying is i mean. That's an astonishingly small amount. What a tiny acceleration. It changes by hundred and seventy meters per year When you think of the distance an asteroid will travel in a year. But anyway that's that's some of the bottom line so what it means is we are not now certain that twenty six eighty won't hit there so that will naturally what it will do is prompt further observations and men. I in fact it may well be that within a decade. perhaps we will know one way or the other. Whether it's there's any possibility of hitting the twenty sixty be just because it'll be observed to death Between now and certainly well before twenty six to sorry go to things come to mind obviously very much aware of nearest objects. We're looking for them all the time. And you and i talked about potential intervention. You would think by twenty sixty eight. We'd have a wii of giving. This thing nudge misses us. I would be confident of that. Although it's a and tense and that was my next point. Three hundred meter object if it did hit the earth what would be the likely scenario from a- whether or not a grazed or his full on it's a an object that size a is not fatal to to humankind however It could be fatal to a city or even a site you talking about. Probably statewide damage selling line is and it would have. Any factor on the atmosphere generally might put dustin atmosphere and reduce temperature or some other effects. But it's not going to be a species extinction event. It's dangerous is very good. Could be bad for tasmania. Would wipeout tells morales running. That scaring yep. If you states have similar we would probably project the impact point Pretty accurately and move everybody at long before this happened shortly. That's right the near you get to the time. The more accurate you have what the scenario you are right. The it may by twenty sixty eight the technologies. We have might be good enough to move it. And if i in particular. If you know if i if you get to a couple of decades before and it's starting to really look serious dot smart the middle of the century twenty fifty. Then you can bet your life that Remedial action will be mounted rather than just sitting wasting dollars. Got bruce willis. I'm telling you i'd be the solution. We i think i'll have affected. Cloning by the into so they probably could probably courteous with interest Hopefully hopefully will not have to worry about that in in two thousand sixty eight. You're listening to the spice nuts. Podcast andrew huntley here with professor fred watson base nuts. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to the space. Nuts podcast with andrew. Dunkley and fred watson and a big shoutout to our patrons now i wanted to tell you that as of This week we have introduced yearly plans on our patriot on page patriots dot com slash spice nuts nets listeners. Can sign up for a whole year in advance. Get in two months discount two months discount for signing up for years and we've already had a couple of who have done that. I'd like to send a big shoutout. To damian humphries one of our patrons and a great supporter of Spice nuts podcast Diamond first of all. Thanks for having to fight that. We're going to survive. And now he really really really confident a thank. Thank you for your support. We are humbled by the fact that people want to put money into the podcast. We never asked for this We certainly not gonna make it a condition and if you wanna listen for nothing had it. But if you if you do want to become a patron and i believe supercars can do it this way as well Sign onto your favorite Patron website Patriots dot com slash. Spice not so super cast or 'ikastolas details are on our website. Spice podcasts dot com. If you're interested in becoming a patron and you can write the check to the value you deem worthy so if you think we're only worth a cent a year well let's donnegan guy that law but You know we do sincerely appreciate it. And is bonus material patrons and they get the early edition and get a free. So thank you again damian into everybody who signed up as a patron there are quite a few. Now it's greatly appreciated afraid We we heard not so long ago about the that interesting discovery in venus of coastal holy the popular press. While you know that made says there's life in the atmosphere probably not but now we've found something in the atmosphere of titan one of one of the great moons indeed yes the biggest moon of saturn which was thoroughly explored by the cassini spacecraft in the well in the in the decade from small decade. Actually thirteen years up to twenty seventeen when it when it was night. Basically entered saturn's atmosphere to not to burn up because it wasn't there's no oxygen in substance atmosphere but to melt and vaporize and become part of the planet about which told us so much so talking thick thick atmosphere. Think it's four times. The pressure of our atmosphere here on something is really an extraordinary place. it's a to nicole. World his temperature around minus hundred ninety. The surface is actually water. Ice frozen solid light. Rock pretty scott lakes of liquid ethane liquid water by guy. So that's sign titan in a nutshell. Actually one of the thing. I didn't say that he's got a liquid ocean Which is a global ocean underneath the ice chunks everything. He's one of my favorite places in the solar system. I'm going to read the nasa. The first sentence or two of the nasa press. Release on this. Which says this was. This comes from a couple of days ago. A few days ago nasa scientists identified a molecule in titan's atmosphere that has never been detected in any other atmosphere in fact many chemists have probably barely heard of it all know how to pronounce it where it really gets interesting here on the prudential. I'm going. I'm going to have a draw good luck. I think it is cyclo penalty. That's that's good effort on. I was reading through it as you said at that. Sounds about right okay. What is a lot. Easier is chemical formula which is c three h two three carbon atoms. Two hundred with a name like that. You'd think out you know. Dozens of different elements in oxygen and nitrogen. Rest of it. But no c. Three h two a cyclope Panel idea i think that And it's as simple carbon-based component as they say to to to talk about a combination but the the excitement comes from the fact that it may be a precursor to more complex carbon containing compounds which is all about life as we so often end up talking about How was it found by the alma telescope. once again the atacama large millimeter submillimeter array in northern chile. Not far from san pedro de atacama Way up that. It's about five thousand meters. Top end of the of the hill on which the telescope is mounted on what what scientists were doing was essentially looking at the spectrum of titan's atmosphere in the millimeter wave region And so he's find lots and lots of features the spectral features that either. Absorption or emission lines simon in visible light spectroscopy. Where you break things up with the prison to bit more complicated for millimeter. Wave spectroscopy but scientists will looking through that looking at the whole series of spectral signatures from alma and they found this chemical fingerprint is a lovely quote from connor. Nixon who's a planetary scientist at nasa goddard. Space flight center is actually a leader of the research. And he said when. I realized i was looking at cyclo. Penali- my first thought was well. This is really expect a understatement. It's very nice and so we have you know. In the world of science we we do know of the existence of c three h two elsewhere in space most notably in clouds of gas clouds Hit light nebulous essentially index pace. And the the the interesting part about it is this stuff tends to like to react with other chemicals and so hit in in deep space where you're looking at gas clouds nabulsi and you find date you can sort of e can come to terms with that because a these places are almost vacuum that that very very low density gases if you've got cyclic propel alighting practicing. I think that might be how you pronounce it. Just perfect it and then someone will give the throne. Yeah yeah yeah. I'll have to go find some chemists friends anyway The the the thing about these rat. Sorry rarefied gas clouds in space is. The molecules are a long way apart so even though the stuff loves to react with other molecules it can't find a and that's it. That's the rationale for finding in these Distant gas clouds in our galaxy but then a planetary atmosphere is quite different from that. You know some the on the much high pressure. It's rarified these outer edges but it's much higher pressure and so the a lot more molecules in titan's atmosphere in close proximity to c three h two so the question is how does it survive. Where does it come from. And the In fact the nasa press release puts it perfectly says dense atmosphere like titans. Hives of chemical activity a. That's why this this particular observation is of interest because it makes you wonder where the three inch to is coming from. Maybe it's just in the appalachians. Titan's atmosphere does not much else that he's finally rarefied but the other big puzzles that you don't find anywhere else It's not it's not showing up. In any other atmosphere of the solar system that includes the gas giants well as venus earth. It is unique in that regard strange discovery and so many questions wise it they had it happen. What's doing nazi can answer any of those questions. It might might be a quarter revelation. You could just be something ordinary. The doesn't there's nothing about what's going on. Yup there's another nice quote from rowsley lopez. Who's a talented expert Propulsion lab autry. I'm guessing he works with With linda spilka who we met last year when she she linda was the cassini mission. Scientists We've we had over here in australia. Give some tools. As rosalie says we're trying to figure out if titan these habitable ooh so we want to know what complaints from the atmosphere get to the surface a damn whether that material can get through the ice crust to the ocean below because we think the ocean is one of the habitable conditions. On you go. Yes that's right but you know but it's it's hard to know what this means exactly as you've hinted but it is just another example of what an extraordinary world titan is one final comment. Andrew is that we've got this dragonfly michigan. Coming up nasa has approved. Bats an opt to captor which will explore the surface of titan of remember when the launch date is the twenty thirties but dragonfly might while the apple to cast some light on on the on the existence of this another though we'd molecules so Not something to look forward to hope. I'm still around then. Well they might be more obviously motorola in but we might get an explanation at sometime in the well a excite not too distant future abilities fail than twenty sixty very true. Very true You're listening to the space. podcast andrew. Dunkley he with fred watson a cast powers. Some of the world's best podcasts. Here's a show. We recommend my name. Sebastian major host of the podcast our fake history. Have you ever wondered if king arthur was a real person. Or if the city of atlantis existed. Or maybe you've heard that old story that queen elizabeth. I was actually a man in drag on our fake history. We explore these stories and try to determine what's fact what's fiction and what is such a good story that it simply must be old. Subscribe to our fake history anywhere you get your podcasts space. Nuts this is the spice nuts. Podcast episode two hundred twenty seven by the way andrew. Dunkley with professor fred watson now a shoutout to as social media followers whether you following these nuts Podcast official page on facebook with following on youtube or twitter ohio instagram or whatever else series Also to the people who follow through or listen to us through various podcast platforms because there were so many. And i've been told that there's gotta be a massive stitch-up upgrade soon. So if you're listening stitcher I think they're about to roll out a whole new interface so Hopefully that will make your experience in the Even better in terms of You'll podcast listening. So that's something to look forward to. I think that's gonna to happen very very soon. And we're we're on itunes. We're on google podcasts. A vast ri- and we thank you for listening to our podcast now for it. We have some questions to tackle today. These to Quite interesting The first is from an unknown listener. But i'm gonna guess he's in ause e good. I andrew infrared and philly listeners. Really love your shy. It's great the question all would like to ask is if a telescope is at the equator and the earth is spinning. Was it that you can try to tell a skype to appoint point of law trillions of malls hawaii had was. It doesn't blue. do they. Just take snapshot will these. I did. I adjust the telescope to keep tracking object in the not score of being able to quite understand this especially reporting straight up at twelve o'clock position. I understand that era of parallels but this guy are quite get it like the effect would be like being on a carousel. And you're taking a picture from the outside anyway a height we can explain this to me Yeah there's a million more questions could ask. That run came to mind. And you need a pause button on this recording Difficult to us. Thank you again cheese. Now worries i. I think you did There are lots of errors in parallel. I'll just add that. He brings up an interesting point. I understand where he's coming from I if you were trying to film something sitting on the edge of carousel With your camera. It would a extraordinarily difficult because of the speed of movement and your images it probably be blurred or mri or whatever is it the same for telescopes on the equator yet. It's not just the equator under it's the whole world because wherever you are on the earth except that the two polls the sky things to turn because of the us rotation and it's something astronomers to live with since the earliest times that the earth is turning and there's not much she can do about it other than make your telescope track on the stars by constantly moving the telescope. And that's exactly how it's dealt with. So you know part of our anonymous questionnaires question said do they just the telescope to keep trucking the object in the night sky. The answer is yes and it's fairly straightforward thing to do. Actually there are two different ways of doing it. If you think about the way actually something like a failed delighted mounted that's to say got an up and down and side to side motion. Almost like the way a gun would be mounted. That is a little difficult to follow the tracking because you got to move both axes simultaneously a different race to follow the tracking of the sky. Now these days you can do that easily with computer control so most modern telescopes built like that way and a lot of very ancient ones were but from about the late sixteen. Hundreds people use something called equatorial mounting. Which is you've got the failed Device but until one of the axes ova to parallel to the taxi Turns out that all you've got to do is rotated around that accident. The right of once every twenty four hours and you'll automatically track on the sky no matter where in the in the in the sky. The telescope is plenty. That's called an equatorial mounting. A little bit harder to manufacture The the the delight type of mounting but still useful of that much. Easier to deal with if you're doing long exposure photography for example and once again on says one of questions that we've been asked how come it doesn't blur or they just take snapshots No they don't long exposures usually in we used to do exposures longer than now when photography was the go but now electronic detectors. Mike exposures Shota so yes so you have a a long exposure telescope is tracking on the sky just to stop the exactly the fact that our questioner long answer to a show. Yeah but there was an answer. And there's a solution which is the best thing about it but would it be easier. Perhaps if you put telescope on the moon which we've been asked about before the that's right it would but you'd still have to do the same thing because for all it turns twenty seven days. Sorry twenty seven times. loa the dow's it's still. The moon is still turning a need compensation when you're when you're looking at you know highly magnified views of very distant objects. It's a pie using telescopes on spaceships. Like the like the hubble for example would and perhaps. I've become some of these problems. The us gyros to stabilize tells us like all right out. Hope that answered your question. Thanks for sending it in a really appreciate that. Let's get onto our last question. This one fascinates me because it's a question that focuses on life beyond earth and so far. This is the only place in the universe where we know life exists but the suspicion is that there is the very laced microbial life somewhere solar system and probably beyond but what about advanced life well Owen from wiles has a question about that high nut is. It's so on williams dame wales. My question is how might evolve in another planet and whether the plans gravity in the type of style would be a major factor for example if a planet had high grabbed you with animals be smaller with thick a binds in order to support the extra weight. Also i've started. If a certain style was a red dwarf would plant as bay different colored enough because of the different color lights in order for further. Since this work thanks love. Thank you uh-huh and that's a great question. And in my recent fi novel the terrain ian 'nigma we act. I actually focus on that issue. One of this species in the book comes from a high gravity high radiation Exposed planet. And and i tried to portray a feature that developed as a consequence of of their environment and they are very very different. Indeed and so. I've wondered about this too. So i know we're not astrobiologists but it it's it's the most likely answer freddie's absolutely that life would have to evolve in some form to adapt to the unusual. Circumstances will be unique circumstances. I face And we know in traveling to other worlds what is atmosphere and conditions alike and we would not tolerate that very well even into you're to take into account the the time of the rotation of the planet you got ta da the radiation the gravity This assist so much that can influence life Put it in a nutshell. Larry some we. We can't have any precursor ideas about what life might be like. Come on these worlds but it is interesting to speculate. I agree with owen. Got higher gravity. Yesica bones maybe smaller animals Dot could well be the case It it's really interesting though. Just focusing on the last part of question which was if the salvezza red dwarf would be a different color from us because the defending alight photosynthesis to work and that is almost certainly true and actually some relatively serious work has been done on this the looking at Asser feature which actually dies back to two thousand and seven but it's still valid which is headlined nassar predict non green planet's not sorry nasa predicts non-grain plants on other planets own might like to follow that up at least where easy to find the nasa gov website. And what what. This article is about is reporting work that basically allows scientists to predict what color planet god. What color plants typically on planets in other solar systems and. It's exactly as owned. Says it depends on the on the temperature of the saw. The basically temperature of the of the surface of the star. So we all have evolved in such a way that the That the the peak radiation light of the some actually is a the plans have tuned to accepting that light for the process of photosynthesis a might might Just read a bit of that masterpiece because it explains it far better able to do in. the in. The process of photosynthesis plans could convert energy from the sun into the chemical energy in the form of glucose. Sugar the chlorof- Not doing well to that under. The chlorophyll absorbs more blue and red light from some light unless green light chlorophyll is green because it reflects green light more than blue and red light. And that's why we've got green leaves on plan. Yes but if he then imagine a Which is emitting much closer to the red so the chemical processes of different generate so the photosynt-synthesis they have then you'll likely to get different colored plants and it with red dwarf. There's a good chance you'll get red flow. That's the bottom line. What about a blue giant. Well get friday you might. Have you know a distant planet of a blue giant while have blue plants blue lease. I mean it's. It's really the least which will about which are the principal organs for photosynthesis. But i'd recommend look of the. There is a piper associated with a which was published in the journal astronaut allergy in march two thousand and sekai worth looking into a fascinating discussion because They would not be at all the circumstances of Potential life bearing planets would be very different. I imagine we've found some of these Will already that they say could have a life. We talk recently about it. You know a couple of dozen. That will probably better suited to create. This is what kind of life what would it look like would would the humanoids bahari because the circumstances dictate that require hey On their i bodies. It's all sorts of possibilities. And it's all circumstantial in each case would be unique. I imagine you have a completely different set of circumstances under every situation situation you might face and they put try it in science fiction with all these wonderful creatures like in star wars and all others but you know what they probably rights are made to the extreme but they probably right yes. It's probably already or our and that's a great question. Thanks to sending it in now. We really appreciate it. He voices well. And keep your questions coming we. We always love them. We we've got a few now after a recent appeal for questions. I in the not too distant future twenty-six perhaps we will all if facade to support questions hopefully all audio questions which would be a nice mix of voices and you can record your questions through our website space nuts. Podcast dot com and click on the tab and heavily around what it is all sorts of fun and games to be had the Astronomy daily tab has lots of news about what's going on and of course the shop tab has access to allow its paces. If you're interested in buying presents. Christmas coming up books are always good. Sale brings to the and fred. Thank you so much greg Token zoe got through the The first experiment with new recording. I haven't checked yet Good to tokyo. Afraid we'll catch you next exploit tenth grade professor fred watson astronomer at large and from me andrew dunkley thanks again for listening to the space nuts. Podcast we'll catch you again. Real soon to this comes at apple. Podcasts google podcasts spotify. Radio your favorite podcast. You can also stream on demand at this is now the quality podcast. Production from thoughts dot com.
Milestone Reached - Space Nuts 227 with Professor Fred Watson & Andrew Dunkley
"I love this podcast. Support this show through the acoss supportive asia. It's up to you. How much give. And there's no regular commitment. Just hit the link in the show description to support now. Fifteen seconds guided journal ignition sequence. Uh space nuts. Three to five at the metric what it feels good once again. Thank you for joining us. This is the space nuts. Podcast my name is andrew dunkley your host and joining me as always as professor fred. What's an astronomer at lodge. Hullo fred low andrew. How are you this who we see you using a new interface today on tested by the way so this could go belly up real quick but noses is to say each other which we haven't done for months and well. It's very good that we can see each other know that it's really the same person that makes a difference because we can sort of fail i can. I can do things that people can't say that that was going to do that. One anyway. it's good. It's really good now. We got a lot to cover today. So we've been get started. The twentieth anniversary of the international space station with permanent occupancy has just passed and that's been celebrated offered a few stories about that on the other side of the coin. something not to celebrate is at demise which is probably going to happen in two thousand and sixty eight if you re popular press But will it. we will allow certainly Look into that Some strange discovery in titan's atmosphere. It seems to be an era of finding things in planetary atmospheres we venus not so long ago and now tighten Has got something popping up and will answer some audience questions. A couple ripa's today. Fred audio questions to Somebody asking about using telescopes at the equator. And if that creates a certain difficulties and the evolution of life on other planets would have different. Would it bay depending on the circumstances they face. It's a really good question. We'll tackle all of that today But i read the twentieth anniversary of the iss. I clearly remember when all the hullabaloo went on about them launching this thing and getting up there and twenty years later it's still going strong in the bay is worse than ever. That's probably true. yeah Look at it. It's a milestone. you know this is some. I think it's one of the things that we can. We can genuinely celebrate so the second of november two thousand was The crew the first crew joined the first covenant crew. If i can put it that way joined the space station. So it's been continuously inhabited ever since then That was a cold expedition. One so they. The nasa number that crews Currently the crew that something aries expedition sixty while so things have moved on a lot. But i think the international space station is just an absolute icon first of all international corporation. It is a place where hundreds really full very low engaged. Because of course it's a it's a. They're five space agencies. Involved the nasa of course roscosmos the russian space agency. Jaksa japanese space agency isa european space agency and the canadians spice agency and many other organizations as well but there the principal players in the game And you know what we've learned from. The international space station is an extraordinary amount Ah just about the way. The universe works about You know the basically the the way humans work in the way a physics works in space because lots of zero gravity experimental microgravity experiments have been tried out a just a couple of statistics so far it has hosted two hundred and forty one crew members and a few spice taurus. You might remember back in the early two. Thousands of nineteen countries So it's a lot of people have been on both ham. Any ozzy's i don't think there are any. Oh no. that's not true. andy. Thomas thank candy. Thomas is being here. Yes i think trump quote on the space station on these mang space raido on mir when the mir space station was lying. He was there for over a year. Think long period it's It's an impressive achievement. And lock said before. You've got this international cooperation which soda sometimes flaws in the face of the issues. We're having on earth mainly economic but It is something that from time to time Count is what the country's doing with each other on the planet which i find astounding but on also glad that when they're off the planet they're up there floating around what they do They're all nights. And i think that's that's right this. I can just spruch a very nice conversation piece. Which was ridiculous gelman who valley while spice geologist on. just in walsh. Who said associate professor artistry knock geology at chapman university. But they've put together a nice summary of the you know watson what the space station is about. There's a couple of paragraphs One reads the is smelly. Noisy messy washing shed skin cells and crumbs is like terrible share house except econ leave. You have to work all the time. No one gets a good night's sleep some fat. There are some perks they go on the cupola module office perhaps the best view available to humans anywhere a one hundred eighty degree panorama of the earth passing below and best view in the in the universe. At the moment i also heard that they fixed the la. Can they use t. I didn't know that now missed out on that one. Yes okay good. An update accord it. The other day the lake was discovered and the the fixed it using the bags. Or taylor or something. It was a really. We'd solution but i told you about That issue in a in a sci-fi movie where i had an aol lake. And i fixed it with dr pepper. Found it with liquid. Dr pepper. That came at the hall wasn't far wrong. that's right. it's sticky a beverage. Averages will save the world. We need a lot of them in twenty sixty eight frayed. Because apparently that's when we're going to get smashed to oblivion by an asteroid. They call it doomsday. I'm thinking well it's really interesting object. I think you. And i've talked about this subject before profits all year. Bright night yet is yet so a puffing will have a close approach to us on a loved the date on friday the thirteenth of april twenty. Twenty-nine we know that will happen. We know that it will come within the ring of of just actually satellites. We know that it will be visible to the unaided. I will be so nick because this thing three hundred meters across his bank but what we also know is that it won't hit the earth. So that is not that friday the thirteenth twenty. Twenty-nine is not gonna be doing say the headlines read. You know you know that is going to be several papers that gloom in two twenty nine. I just can't sell the pipe you've got. Yeah anyway the the yes. So that's a definite no but there is another close approach in twenty sixty eight and at moment to the best of all knowledge not will also be a non hitch. It will miss the earth. But what's been recognized. Is that an a office is undergoing something called iascaigh acceleration. And i think we might have talked about this before your comes acceleration. So an comes about when you've got a rotating objects being eighty by the sound of course an asteroid is exactly that so if you think about it so if you think about this this thing moving along so bit the side facing the sun is getting heat up but it turns out that the hottest part of the surface is not the part directly under the sun at because these things turning so the hottest part the surface a is a bit a bit further around it corresponds to about two o'clock in the afternoon If you think of noon being weather sounds directly overhead. The things turned a couple of hours for a bit further. Not couple of hours on the asteroid. Because that's a different rotations. Pay that kind of if you. I'm not making very clear but it means the hottest part is not facing the sun. It's actually facing slightly backwards. And what that means is that part of the asteroid is a is releasing rather more info infrared radiation. The of it. So it's non-thermal sorry non uniform thermal radiation in red and that radiation basically exerts a a thrust. Slow very slight thrust on the asteroid. What it means is that the the thing is essentially speeding up. The the that's done. This is from the university of hawaii ashley by scientists there and one of the day fallen who's actually one of the institute for astronomy scientists. Who works on this. He says he says the we've known for some time that an impact with is not possible during the twenty twenty nine close approach the new observations. We've obtained a with the subaru telescope and forgot to mention. Subaru is the japanese eight meter telescope amount of kea in hawaii. First class instrument. I have a subaru alone. Mauer do there you go. I used to have a super salad fiber car. You know what subaru means. Now is the japanese word for the plot. And that's why you're subaru car stars all right. I wondered that you go. Let me just go back to the stolen. Who says the new observations. We obtained with the subaru telescope earlier. This year were good enough to reveal the kofsky acceleration of office and they show that the asteroid is drifting away from purely gravitational orbits by about one hundred seventy meters per year which is enough to keep the twenty sixty eight impact scenario implying. Boy so what he's saying is i mean. That's an astonishingly small amount. What a tiny. Acceleration changes by hundred and seventeen meters per year When you think of the distance an asteroid will travel in a year. but anyway. that's that's a the bottom line so what it means is we are not now certain. The twenty six eighty won't hit there so that will naturally what it will do is prompt further observations and men. I in fact it may well be that within a decade. perhaps we will know one way or the other. Whether it's there's any possibility hitting twenty sixty just because it be observed to death Between now and certainly well before twenty six to think so mike. Sorry go to things. Come to mind Obviously we are very much aware of nearest objects. We're looking for them all the time and you talked about potential intervention. You would think by twenty sixty eight. We'd have a wii of giving this thing nudge. So that it misses us. I would be contract of that. Yeah l. zoo. It's an intense and that was my next point. Three hundred meter object. If it did hit the earth what would be the likely scenario from a whether or not a greatest his full on. it's a an object that size. Hayes is not fatal to to humankind however it could be fatal to a city or even a state you talking about probably statewide damage facility facilities and it would have an effect on the on the atmosphere. Generally you know it might put dustin atmosphere and reduce temperature or some other effects But it's not going to be a species extinction event. It's dangerous though is very could be bad for tasmania would wipe out. Chas morales that scaring. Yep you know if you states have similar that probably project the impact point Pretty accurately and move everybody at long before this happened shortly. That's right the near you get to the time the more accurate you have walked the scenario. Ob you are right though. It may by twenty sixty eight the technologies. We have might be good enough to move it. And if i in particular if you know if if you get to a couple of decades before and it's starting to really look serious so by the middle of the century twenty fifty then you can bet your life that Remedial action will be mounted. Rather than just sitting. Watching bruce willis. I'm telling you might be the solution we need. I think i'll cloning by the into so they probably could probably courteous. Watch with interest but hopefully hopefully will not have to worry about that in two sixty eight. You're listening to the spice nuts. Podcast andrew dunkley here with professor fred watson narrowed base matz. Thanks for joining us. You're listening to the space. And that's podcast. With andrew. Dunkley and fred watson and a big shoutout to our patrons now i wanted to tell you that as of This week we have introduced yearly plans on our patriae on page patriots dot com slash spice nuts. That's where listeners can sign up for a whole year in advance getting two months discount two months discount for signing up for years. And we've already had a couple of people who have done that. I'd like to send a big shadow. Out to. Damian humphries one of our patrons and a great supporter of the spice nuts podcast Diamond first of all. Thanks for having the fight that we're going to survive another year. We really confident am thank. Thank you for your support. We are Humbled by the fact that people want to put money into the podcast. We never asked for this We certainly not gonna make it a condition and if you wanna listen for nothing had it but if you if you do want to become a patron super casts can this way as well Sign onto your favorite matt patron website patriot dot com slash spice not so super cast or 'ikastolas details on our website. Spice podcasts dot com. If you're interested in becoming a patron and you can write the check to the value you deem worthy so if you think only worth a sent a year well let's donnegan guy that law but we do sincerely appreciate it and his bonus material for patrons and they get the early edition and they get at free. So thank you again. Diamond into everybody. Who signed up as a patron era. Quite a few now. It's greatly appreciated now. fred We we heard not so long ago about the that. The interesting discovery in venus of coastal lee. The popular press it. While you know that maine says there's life in the atmosphere probably not but now we've found something. In the atmosphere of titan one of one of the the great moons indeed yes the biggest moon of saturn which was thoroughly explored by the cassini spacecraft in the well in the in the decade from a decade. She's thirteen years up to twenty seventeen when it when he was night. Basically enter saturn's atmosphere to not to burn up because there was there's no oxygen in substance atmosphere but to melt and vaporize and become part of the planet about which told us so much so tien thick thick atmosphere. Think it's four times the pressure of our atmosphere here on something like really an extraordinary place. It's nicole world surface temperature around minus hundred ninety. The surface is actually. Water is frozen solid light rock but he's got lakes of liquid liquid water by guy so that's sign titan in a nutshell. Actually one of the thing. I didn't say is that he's gonna liquid ocean which is a global ocean underneath the ice. Go everything one of my favorite places in the solar system. I'm going to read the nasa the first sentence or two up the nassar a press. Release a list. Which says this was. This comes from a couple days ago a few days ago. Nasa scientists identified a molecule in titan's atmosphere that has never been detected in any other atmosphere in fact. Many chemists have probably bali heard of it all know how to pronounce it really interesting here on prudential i'm going. I'm going to have a goatee. I enjoy a good luck. I think it is cyclo penalty. That's that's good effort on. I was reading through it as you said at that. Sounds about right okay. What is a lot. Easier is chemical formula which is c three h two three carbon atoms. Two hundred with a name like not. You'd think it out. You know. Dozens of different elements in oxygen and nitrogen all but no c three h two cyclope Panel i think that said And it's as simple carbon-based component. Does they say to to to talks about in combination but the the excitement comes from the fact that it may be a precursor to more complex carbon containing compounds which is all about life as we so often end up talking about. How was it found by the alma telescope. once again the atacama large millimeter submillimeter array in northern chile. Not very far. From san pedro de atacama Way up that. It's about five thousand meters top of the of the hill on which the telescope mounted on what what scientists were doing was essentially looking at the spectrum of titan's atmosphere in the millimetre wave region And so he's fine and lots of features the spectral features that either. Absorption or emission lines race assignment in visible light. Spectroscopy where you break things up with the prison today. More complicated for millimeter wave spectroscopy but scientists were looking through that looking at the whole series of spectral signatures from alma and they found this chemical fingerprint and is a lovely quote from khanna nixon who's a planetary scientists nassar's goddard space flight center is actually a leader of the research and he said when i realized i was looking at cyclo panel. Id i i thought was well. This is really expect about understatement. It's very nice. And so we have you know. In the world of science we we do know of the existence of c three h two elsewhere in space most notably in clouds of gas. Gas clouds. Hit light nebula essentially in space and the the interesting part about it. Is this stuff tends to like to react with other chemicals. And so Hit in in deep space where you're looking at gas clouds nabulsi and you find it you can sort of e can can come to terms with that because these places are almost vacuum that that very very low density gasoline's if you've got cyclic propen alighting practicing since i think that might be you pronounce it just perfect it and then someone will give the throne. Yeah oh yeah. I'll have to go find some chemists friends anyway. The the thing about these rat sorry rarefied gas clouds in space is the molecules are a long way apart. So the stuff loves to react with other molecules. It can't find any and that's that's the rationale for finding in these a distant gas clouds in our galaxy but in a planetary atmosphere is quite different from that sound on the much high pressure. It's rarified on these outer edges but the much higher pressure and so the molecules in titan's atmosphere in close proximity to c three h two. So the question is how does it survive. where does it come from. And the in fact the press release puts it perfectly it says dense atmosphere like titans hives of chemical activity. And that's why this. This particular observation is of interest because it makes you wonder where the three is coming from. Maybe it's just in the upper layers of titan's atmosphere where there's not much else that it's fairly rarefied but the big puzzle is that you don't find it anywhere else It's not it's not showing up. In any other atmosphere of the solar system that includes the gas giants as well as venus earth. it is unique in that regard. Strange discovery cross up so many questions. Wise it they had it happen. What's doing not seeking an answer any of those questions that might Quarter revelation was. It could just be something ordinary. The doesn't there's nothing about what's going on off. There's another nice quote from rosalie. Look who's a titan expert. Actually jet propulsion laboratory. I'm guessing he works with With linda spilka who we met last year when she she. Linda was the cassini mission. Scientists We we had over here in australia last year to give some tools as rosalie says we're trying to figure out if titan these habitable who so we want to know what compounds from the atmosphere get to the surface then whether that material can get through the ice crust to the ocean below because we think the ocean is where the habitable conditions you go. Yeah that's right but but it's just it's hard to know what this means exactly as you've hinted but it is just another example of what an extraordinary world titan is one final comment. Andrew is that we've got this dragonfly. Coming up nasa has approved an opt to captor which will explore the surface of titan. Remember when the launch date is the twenty thirties but You know dragonfly might while the able to cast some light on on the on the existence of this another weird molecules so not something to look forward to hope. I'm still around then and well. They might be obviously motorola in but we might get an explanation at some time in the well a not too distant future abilities fadeaway twenty sixty very true very true. If you're listening to the space podcast. Andrew dunkley he with fred watson a cast powers. Some of the world's best podcasts. Here's a show. We recommend my name. Sebastian major host of the podcast our fake history. Have you ever wondered if king. Arthur was a real person or if the city of atlantis really existed. Or maybe you've heard that old story that queen elizabeth. I was actually a man in drag on our fake history. We explore these stories and try to determine what's fact what's fiction and what is such a good story that it simply must be old. Subscribe to our fake history anywhere you get. Your podcasts. can't be half space nuts. This is the spice nuts. Podcast episode two hundred twenty seven by the way andrew. Dunkley with professor. Fred watson now a shoutout to as social media followers whether you Following these face nuts Podcast official page on facebook With following on youtube or twitter. Ohio instagram or whatever else series also to The the people who follow through or listen to us through various podcast platforms. 'cause there were so many and i've been told that there's gotta be a massive stitcher upgrade soon. So if you're listening to us three stitcher I think they're about to roll out a whole new interface. So hopefully that will make your experience in the even better in terms of You'll podcast listening. So that's something to look forward to. I think that's gonna happen very very soon. and we're we're on. I tunes we're on google podcasts. Vast ri- and we thank you for listening to our podcast for it. We have some questions to tackle today. Acquired interesting The first is from an unknown listener. But i'm gonna guess he's in ause e good. I andrew in freight and fellow listeners. Really love your show. It's great the question all would like to ask is if telescope is at the equator and the earth is spinning it that you can try to tell a skype to appoint a law trillions of malls hawaii had was that it doesn't blue just take snapshot will do they did. I adjust the telescope to keep tracking object in the sky. I've never been to quite a disdain. These especially fits porting straight up. At twelve o'clock position. I understand that era of parallels. But this guy are quite get it like the effect would be like being on a carousel. And you're taking a picture from the outside levy care anyway. A height can explain this to me. yeah there's a million more questions could ask. That run came to mind. And you need a pause button on this recording Difficult to us. Thank you again cheese. No worries i think he did rather well. So there are lots of errors in power alexa. Just add that for free He brings up an interesting point. I understand where he's coming from. I if you were trying to film something sitting on the edge of a carousel With your camera it would be extraordinarily difficult because of the speed of movement and your images would probably be blood or mri or whatever. Is it the sign for telescopes on the quite yet. And it's not just the equator under its because wherever you on the earth except that the two polls the sky things to turn because of the us rotation and it's something that astronomers to live with since the earliest times that the earth is turning and there's not much you can do about it other than met your telescope track on the stars by constantly moving the telescope. And that's exactly how it's dealt with. So you know part of our anonymous questionnaires question said do they just the telescope to keep checking the object in the night sky. The answer is yes It's fairly straightforward things to do. Actually there are two different ways of doing it. If you think about the way actually something like failed delighted mounted got an up and down and side to side motion. Almost like you know i the way a gun would be mounted. A that is a little bit difficult to follow the tracking. Because you've got to move both axes simultaneously different race to follow the tracking of the sky. Now these days you can do that easily with computer control so most modern telescopes built like that way and a lot of very ancient ones were from about the late. Sixteen hundred people use something. Called an equatorial mounting. Which is you've got a failed device but until one of the axes ova two parallel to the earth's axes sunny turns out that you've got to do is rotated around that axis of the right of once every twenty four hours and you'll will automatically track on the sky no matter where in the telescope in the in the sky. The telescope is plenty. That's called an equatorial mounting. They are a little bit harder to manufacture the the theod light type of mounting but still useful of that that much easier to deal with if you're doing long exposure photography for example and once again and says one of the questions that we've been asked how come it doesn't blur they just take snapshots No they don't long exposures usually fact. We used to do exposures longer than now when photography was the go but now electronic detectors mike your exposures So yes so. You have a a long exposure but the telescope is tracking on the sky just to stop the exactly the fact that our questioner long answer to a show. Yeah but there was an answer. And there's a solution which is the best thing about it but would it be easy eh. Perhaps if you put a telescope on the moon which we've been asked about before the that's right it would but you'd still have to do the same thing because for all it turns twenty days. Sorry twenty seven times. Loa the dow's it's still. The moon is still running and a compensation when you're when you're looking at you know highly magnified views of very distant objects by using telescopes on spaceships like like the hubble for example would Perhaps i've become some of these problems. They use gyros to stabilize. Tells us news like laura out. Hope that answered your question. Thanks for sending it in really appreciate that. Let's get onto our last question. This one fascinates may because it's a question that focuses on life beyond earth and so far. This is the only place in the universe where we know life exists. The suspicion is that there is the very lace microbial life somewhere solar system and probably beyond. But what about advanced life well Owen from wiles has a question about that high. It's so williams. It's one dame wales mark questions but might evolve in another planet and whether the plans gravity in the type of style would be a major factor for example if a planet had high grabbed you with animals be smaller with thick a binds in order to support. The extra weight also started if a certain style was a red dwarf would plant lays different colors enough because of the different color lights in order for photosynthesis to work. Thanks loved Thank you uh-huh and that's a great question and in my road. Most recent sci fi novel the iranian. 'nigma we i. I actually focus on that issue. One of this species in the book comes from a high gravity high radiation exposed planet. And and i tried to portray a creature that developed as a consequence of of their environment and they are very very different. Indeed and so. I've wondered about this an asteroid astrobiologists. But it it's the most likely answer freddie's that absolutely that life would have to evolve in some form to adapt to the unusual. Circumstances will the unique circumstances that i face And we know in traveling to other worlds. What diana's atmosphere and conditions alike and we would not tolerate that very well even into got to take into account the the time of the rotation of the planet you gotta The radiation the gravity This assistant much that can influence life nuts. Right so you put it in a nutshell. Larry some we. We can't have any deep precursory ideas. About what my life might be like one of these walls but it is interesting to speculate. An aunt don't agree with the oem that you know. If you've got high gravity yesterday abodes maybe smaller animals That could well be the case It it's really interesting though just focusing on the last possible question which was if the styles are dwarf. A would be a different color from us. 'cause the different alight synthesis to work and not it's almost certainly true and actually some relatively serious workers been donald this the Looking at Nassar feature which actually dies back to two thousand and seven but it's still valid Which is headline nassar predict. Non green planet's not sorry nasa predicts non green plants on other planets own might like to follow that up at least easy to find his home. The nas dot gov website and watch what this article is found is reporting work that basically allows scientists to predict what color planet god. What color plants are going to be on planets in other solar systems and it's exactly as owen says it depends on the on the temperature of the saw the basically the temperature of the of the surface of the star. So we all noth- have evolved in such a way that the the the the peak radiation light of the sun actually is the plants tune to accepting that light for the process of synthesis. A might i might just read a bit of masterpiece because it explains it far better than i'm able to do. In the in the process of photosynthesis plants convert energy from the sun into the chemical energy in the form of glucose. Sugar the chlorof- I'm not doing well to the under. The chlorophyll in plants absorbs more blue and red light from sunlight unless green light chlorophyll is green because it reflects green light more than blue and red light. And that's why we've got green leaves on plan. Yes but if you then imagine a a star which is emitting much closer to the red so the chemical processes of different generate one so the photosynt-synthesis they have then you're likely to get different. Colored plants and it with a red dwarf is a good chance. You'll get red flow while that's the bottom line. What about a blue giant. Well debt fried idea. You might have a distant plenty of a blue giant while. Have blue plans as well as i mean. It's it's really the least which talking about which the principal organs for photosynthesis. But i'd recommend look of this. There is a piper associated with it which was published in the journal in march. Two thousand and okay worth looking into but fascinating because That would not be all the circumstances of a potential life. Bearing planets would be very different. I imagine we we've found some of these will already that they they say could have a life. We talk recently about it out. A couple of dozen. That will probably better suited to his sister. What kind of life. What would it look like would would the humanoids be hairy. Because the circumstances dictate that require. Hey on their bodies. It's all sorts of possibilities. And it's all circumstantial in each case would be unique. I imagine it. You'd have a completely different set of circumstances under every situation situation you might face and they put try it insides fiction with all these weird and wonderful creatures like in star wars and all others but you know what they probably right to the extreme but they probably right yes they already or our and that's a great question. Thanks for sending it in now. We really appreciate it. He voices well. And keep your questions coming we. We always love them. We we've got quite a few now after a race in the pale for question in the not too distant future. Twenty sixty eight. Perhaps we will all if aside to while support questions. Hopefully all audience questions which would be a nice mix of voices And you can record your questions through a website space. Nuts podcast common. Click on the tab and have a look around what it is all sorts of fun and games to be had the Astronomy highly tab has lots of news about what's going on and of course the shop tab has access to allow Its pace if you're interested in buying presents. Christmas coming up books are always good to bring this to the and fred. Thank you so much. Greg token zoe. I've got through the The the first experiment with this new recording. I haven't checked yet. He added to tokyo. Frederick catching exploit tenth grade. Professor fred watson astronomer lodge from me andrew dunkley thanks again for listening to the space nuts. Podcast will catch you again real soon to this. Podcast available at apple podcasts. Google podcasts spotify. Iheart radio all your favorite podcast. Playa you can also streamed on demand at this is another quality podcast. Production from thoughts dot com.
162: Apollo 11 - The Legacies 50 Years On
"In fifteen seconds guidance journal and ignition sequence spence nuts to report feels good forms all script for man by aplly prevent. It looks beautiful aradio thrown at like the Heidegger United States. That's different but it's very pretty here once again. Thank you for joining us on the podcast known as Space Netzer Special Edition with dedicating the whole program today to Apollo eleven as this podcasts leaks out over the ether or the Internet. Wherever the heck it goes we will be looking back fifty years to the day when mankind kicked the moon and as a part of that we'll be looking at not only that particular event but also some of the things that have have come out of the Apollo missions and joining me is always is one professor Fred Watson astronomer at large? I've read Andrew how're you doing. I'm very well. I'm good to have your company on this special occasion and something I've been looking forward to now. We've been sort of building up to this for quite some time and I've seen so many news reports and specials popping up on television and in in <hes> newspapers and on social media and <hes> all the conspiracy theorists are adding force at the moment but we're not gonna go there but I thought I'd start off with an amusing anecdote always watching report yesterday on an Australian News Network with I were looking at the anniversary of the moon landing in the first step on the lunar surface and the reporter said it was the first time mankind headset for on another planet you go. That's a promotion for the moon. Sure is big promotion prevention huge promotion. We must be bidding. It is what I believe from that remark but maybe some just sort of indicates perhaps a little bit of ignorance or maybe a bit of misdirected had creative license but <hes> it is certainly not a planet and a few of us were talking about it at the radio station today Fred in one of the things that came up was the fact that since that moon landing two generations of human beings things have been born and thought well that makes sense. I've had children since then and now one of those children has children so there'd be two. Maybe three generations in existence now that weren't around when the moon landing happened which there's something to ponder fifty years doesn't seem like a long time but a lot can happen over that kind of timeframe anyway we look at the mission itself as a sort of a precursor to a couple of other things we wanNA focus on on the legacy of the Apollo missions one of the big suppose arguments that seems to center around astronomy and space travelers. What's in it for us as in humankind and well the Apollo although missions probably are a way of really defining what's in it for humanity so that's what we look at look today we focus on what came out of it scientifically what came out of technologically and there are a few view what Fred is referred to as intangibles that might surprise you? We'll get to them a little lighter but the mission itself read one of the things that's come up. is where we you. I was at home. I got sent home from school rule because I was a naughty boy now. Everybody got sent Heim to watch it on T._V.. Of Casino Australia we saw it on the calendar the DIA FDA. I think it was something to that effect but it was about one o'clock in the afternoon at time referring to the Moon Walker Moonwalk yeah so in the afternoon on Sunday Sunday well sorry I beg your pardon me someday this year. It was just in a school diet recall when I when I sorted sixty nine and said we were all in the lounge room crowded around at tiny little black and white television taking it all in on never forget that moment it's always seven years old and it was it was astonishing punishing. Where will you I think it was? I actually think it was a Monday climb yet 'cause I. I took the day off so what happened see I was in the U._K.. And my job at that time was an uptick. Oh physicists working for company that Built Lodge Astronomical Telescopes but in fact telescope I was working on was a small one. It had mira ten inches or twenty five millimeters. Sorry twenty five centimeters in diameter and it was going to fly on board the Spice Chronicle T._d.. One which eventually it was launched in nineteen seventy two so I was working on this on the Space Mission <hes> in this lab but all of us in the lab were completely fascinated by Apollo. We I just want to be the Apollo astronauts who didn't WANNA be working boring. Things like robotic ultraviolet. Cameras Voice is craft so it's yet it was very heady time so the the <music> a launch itself was covered on TV but the landing and Moonwalk as I remember. I think it was a Sunday afternoon. Share that the this is our time in the U._K.. That the is coverage of the landing the touchdown on the mood a then the B._b._c. shut down everything because it was twelve in the morning in Britain. You don't go bill midnight and so what you're recording the of the mood will the next morning I go. I think it was six thirty. I go to to to watch it on T._V.. But it was a recording by the end of the mood will well as I understand it <hes> eastern daylight time in America. It was ten fifty six P._M.. Whitney stepped on the moon which would have put it later in the day for the Yucai and the next day for us in Australia we sort of Monday but it was actually a Sunday as I understand it <hes> but yeah they we are and I'm sure a lot of people have been having this discussion about. You know way we you it was it was an incredible achievement <hes> in terms of the <hes> just the fact that they got the the test mission of polite to go out there and do a lap of the moon and go will it's clauses will ever get and fly Heim and I think it Cape Canaveral at NASA now they still have the control troll room set up for the Apollo eight mission and you can sit through a replication of the launch which is exciting but it was apollo eleven that captured the imagination of the world with with the first step on the moon and I I feel privileged to have met Buzz Aldrin and and talked to him about it some years ago and he was he was an amazing man. Neil Armstrong of course no longer with us and Michael Collins is doing a lot of media as we speak <hes> in the late up to this momentous anniversary but Fred I think telling the story of the Apollo Moon landing and the missions is is only part of it because the the the planning and the science and technology that went into it wasn't only beneficial for the missions it was beneficial for humanity as as we are going to discuss so suppose we can start off off by focusing on the scientific legacy of the Apollo Missions <hes> indeed which we still you know instill cutting edge science is this so what did the six I suppose <unk> remember just just briefly with celebrating Apollo eleven but they sequence of Apollo landings culminated with Apollo seventeen which landed in December nineteen seventy-one Apollo Thirteen of course hosted make it to the moon they returned to us safely did land on the moon which is good because we wouldn't assane. Tom Hanks movies if that didn't get baxter partly not so <hes> that's right <hes> twelve the people won't tell the Moon in those three years first time anybody ever set foot on another world none of the planet and of course that Apollo Seventeen landing in December nineteen seventy one that was the last time humans went below. Sorry went beyond low auth obits. We've we've done a lot in space. Since then with the space shuttle the International Space Station bought we've never ventured it is a species <unk> beyond Louisville pop from robotically so we've done it you know vicariously with our robotic spacecraft but we have physically so the science that came from it the sum total <hes> three hundred ninety two kilograms of lunar rock and soil <hes> something like eight thousand four hundred images taken on the lunar surface in many more from space as well the NOLA scientific data that comes from you know that that sort of venture the Apollo astronauts left seismometers behind to record mood quakes <hes> which come from both the shrinkage of the lunar crossed and from meteorite in tax those seismometers I think worked for about seven years. I think they they faded away. Sort of towards the end of the nineteen seventies the the other one though is the the laser reflectors which were left on the Mussa these what it called Kona Q. reflectors that bits of optics have the property that he shined beam of lighted to them. It comes out in exactly the same direction action as it went pain or a reverse direction so means if you do what angle is that these things up has and it doesn't matter <unk> angled beam comes in from us because he's a elizabeth coming from us. That's used for this ace. It always goes back to the same ways it came and that Alexis measure very accurately the distance them because he can time the flight of the lazily. Give you make it a very short pulse takes about one point three seconds against the moon about. About the site to get back but you can measure that very accurately facts to Pico seconds so that what you get is a measurement of the moon's distance to better the dissenting Mesa or <hes> you know to the dividend if you're are you working at inches so I'm yet remarkable accuracy and it's because of that that we know that the the movies receding from us at three point eight two centimeters per year that's because of a process it was cold titles friction big moon gains energy out she for this rotation and response to that by moving away as as he gives energy to somebody around something else he moves away from from the primary my my level of energy repulses my wife no escape my attention. No I'm sure that's not true net. We know about that drift before the Apollo missions. That's a really good question. <hes> I think it was Ab- Semis but in fact there are measurement Chica make with optical telescope but adult think it was anything like the kind of accuracy that we're talking about now the other thing is that as well as the moon moving away from us. This process of tunnel friction slows down rotation of the Earth. It actually slows down both bodies about the LOONEY's already slowed down so he's already locked into facing us all the time. The is well on its way to that process in several tens of billions of years. One side of the willow was faced the moon but we're not that yet so what what what happens is that the rotation of the slowing down slightly and that's one of the reasons why every two or three years we put in a leap second into calendar our clocks either of the thirty first of December thirteenth of June. I'm that's to keep the atomic clock to the world in sync with the rotation of the Earth because of the fact that we now have atomic clocks that can detect that slowdown this rotation. We've got lasers that can detect the moon drifting away so it's all very neat untidy but to deal with it. We've sticking these these leap seconds yes one or the other things that's come out of. The Apollo missions is learning of the relationship between the Earth from the marine. I suppose we always wondered had how got there and why it is what it is but we we never been able to collect samples and do some comparative work but it also I've been up mystery as to why it is so that is us right so one of the popular theories in the Early Twentieth Century was that the moon came from the fact that Elliot's history the was spinning so rapidly that centrifugal falls on slide material from exequatur which formed the moon it doesn't work at does not theory because we we know from other you know their arguments that the the never rotated fast enough for that to happen would have had to go around once every two hours for that to to take place apparently never went round faster than once every four islands so it was winning but not fast enough for to be just centrifugal falls so since the nineteen sixties we've assumed that what happened was that the moon sorry the was hit by amass sized objects <hes> in the early history of the solar system with so confident of this. We give it a name we call it thea not it's the mother of Selene Greek mythology mother of the moon so this object hit the earth probably within the first hundred million two years <unk> narrowed down a bit more recently explained in a minute. I'm so you what you've got this huge cloud of daybreak which surrounds the ring and in fact then convinces into a moon last week there was some observations reported from the Alma telescope which is the Atacama Lodge military <unk> comet nascent federal the Atacama Chile. I was last week. The Alma <unk> has detected a cloud of material around the planet which is over take another style and that is thought to be a moon in the process of full nations the first time we've seen it that but we believe that happened in the case of our own with with this material from the colliding object coalescing into the present die moon the problem with that bottle is that there is something cool the oxygen region isotope ratio which is a daytime of chemical analysis but it turns out that old bodies in the solar system of different optical sorry different oxygen Isotope Ratios <hes> but the moon in the US and we know this from Apollo have exactly the same and what that suggests is that the mood actually came from material from the Earth whereas the collision theory suggests that what you get is material from colliding object druthers. Jane said everything should be different. Yes because there's only one percent chance there would have the same chemical <unk> isotope composition as the earth so you've got a problem that exactly as you mentioned a few people try you know different scenarios if you if you kind of fiddle the numbers of e can make it work but it was never very satisfactory because collision happening at some random angle would always produce material that tonight the colliding objects rather than the collide e the self until two months ago because in April the new and I spoke about this on space nuts but scientists in Japan and the United States. It seems to have solved the problem because they've they've done something which should have been pretty obvious but really not <unk> before if the collision happened early enough in the history site within the first fifty million years then the earth was probably was still covered by magma ocean was a liquid rock surface it so ought yet this liquid notion of material and if he then take something solid Zia was assumed it to be solid. It's much cooler much smaller so it would have cooled much more rapidly solidified more rapidly after its formation that binds into the with slushy al-As of what you get in that circumstance is the material the full moon <unk> material and it works really well. It seems like a big step in our understanding whether moon came from technically speaking living onto planets in a sense studies true because one can the other it looks like in the models that they scientists have made the the material that would get sort of plummeted out of the out of the mood system. It's still stream of daybreak but he's not captured Chad by the earth is actually going to the US escape velocity so yeah so we would a double planet just back to your coming at the beginning that somebody said is the first time we stepped on a on another planet. People have argued that the moon is is should be regarded as a double planet rather than a planet satellites and the argument as that the mood Zoa Bates is always concave to the south. Nobody realized that but as it goes around the sun takes them with it and so the jobs that is always concave accelerates. <hes> you know sort of Never Everett is is it connects to the something so strong cash this however most people rubbish that argument because that the real the real test the litmus for double planet it is if the Barry Center central massive the two is actually outside both bodies and that's the case Pluto. It's Mood Carolina Pluto of course he's a Dwarf Planet Pluto and Karen Really Repair of Dwarf Planets rather than rather than a a dwarf planet satellite because the Barry Center the center of gravity is outside the body of Pluto and the moon the Barry Center is inside the body of the so we are definitely a planet and satellite very good all right pipe. We've got to get through so we will move on. It's been fascinating so far talking about the Apollo missions and and the moon and the legacy of those Apollo missions you're listening into space nuts Andrew Dunkley with Fred Watson. This episode is brought to you by Xerox today. Xerox is all about enabling the era of intelligent work from industry leading hardware and software solutions to workflow automation mation and new innovations like three d printing and hyper spectral imaging. We're not just thinking about the future we're making it. Learn more at Xerox Dot com slash me to think space nuts now fred we have spoken about the scientific legacy of the Apollo Program. What about that technology now I heard identified this is true or not but I heard a little piece of information some years ago that suggested we would not have the microwave oven without Apollo? I'm not sure that's true for term an urban myth but could be it'd be well yeah the so it is true that one of the things Apollo pushed Bush was the miniaturization of technology. I mean it's a bit <hes> it seems a bit curious that the biggest rocket launched dive yeah assassin five should should actually you know should should spur miniaturization but they did they how to make everything smaller and he met well the the wanted to call the the things that generate the microwave forgotten the night. That's ridiculous. No the the device that does it probably listeners does that yelling out the name loudly the moment but I forgot what he's called. It's that device which will come to me shortly. I'm sure <hes> was almost certainly miniature. They started the life actually in radar wartime right all of these these Mrs of microwaves however the probably the the most notable path of militarization that we think about with Apollo as with computers because at that time during the sixties computers was starting to become <hes> you know readily available there will be built commercially I._B._M.. And I see Allen companies like that were building. These machines means when I went to union nine hundred sixty three but did a course in computer science and we had an I._B._M.. Machine in the computer land which I think wade several tonnes. <hes> it had <hes> you know how electrcity bowed to to to break the circuits circuit breaker Baltic probably consumed several kilowatts have power that was the best we had that so that was the beginning of the sixties out probably from about nineteen sixty by nineteen seventy-nine. You've got the Apollo guidance computers which were very much the things that will be used aboard the space craft through two of them while in the Komo nor do <unk> a difficult <unk> lunar orbit and one in the Balloon Orlando Elian the lunar excursion mobile so by then these things had come down to a very lightweight thirty two kilograms. What's that says seventy pounds or something like that to to live? I can never remember that conversion two point two pounds per kilogram yep about seventy pounds and they also consumed about seventy walks which is the powered technique by fairly bright light bulb of the old incandescent to tell us that was state of the art that was you know the the just what you needed for computing tpc the orbital parameters <unk> it was it was still pretty. I've done stuff they yet back then but of course it was all a <unk> gobbledygook terminology out to typing <unk> Orden <unk>. There was nothing like a like a attractive Pandora or a mouse or anything like that it was all about just typing numbers in getting numbers out as a space the equivalent to dos system yeah what's his accrued than dogs well demonstrated in the movie Apollo Thirteen. We're trying to record night the position and shaved some sort of gardens and that would doing all of mathematics pencil and paper <hes> and then <hes> hand program the computers too because it was yeah. That's what it came down to the you thinking of a <hes> a cavity magnetron. Yes thank you just popped into. My head ended in Tehran but I could remember what it was. It's about going well well the P._T._O.. <hes> so that they would probably try as well to the extent that he can but you know that so that spurred on and the Fest Generation of absorb a small computers waste use those in the Schmidt Telescope <unk> computers which were selling portable but they were smaller than those big mainframe machines that we had back you nearly sixties and then the move to personal computers and of course now to this amalgam of telephone telephone technology in computing which will carry in pockets the estimates that your average mobile phone in terms of the number of instructions per second that it can carry out is under twenty million times faster than the apollo computers ages staggering. It's staggering in it and it's happened in fifty years less than fifty will probably thought he is in real terms but yeah the thought that we carrying around in pockets devices that that much more superior to something that helped people get to the moon is mind boggling it really is and you know it a testament to what was achieved as far as the Apollo missions nations were concerned because this was the catalyst for change. This was one of the things that led humanity down that technological path that we all take for granted now in many many countries. I think that's true. I think that's a fair comment and of course there are other failed as well <hes> without going into too much detail for example high fuel cells web perfected for policies things that tag hydrogen oxygen in combined electrolytic to produce power water facts act. I think it was if I remember it was an explosion in a fuel cell that led to the publicity mission ables. I think that's what caused it. I can't remember I never saw the movie by the way I should watch it sometime. I think get enjoy it. You'd probably have a bit of cringe because it's such a complicated story. They had to take a lot of shortcuts. A few things are probably not as well detailed or creative law since went into just so we'll just do that. Just get that thing done. I thought if I recall what they said in the movie it was rotating the oxygen tanks that Monaco's the explain. Maybe I can't remember I don't know don't know but the fuel cells now at their much higher levels sophistication than they were backing the days of Apollo and and they've got a bright future. Certainly I'll chief scientists strategy scientists diamond fecal whose offices just along the carpet for me. When I'm sitting camera <hes> he is a great champion hydrogen fuel for Cars and the way you turn up fuelling to energy is not burning but by putting it through a fuel Sam <hes> so that you you get power motor out the other end hydrogen oxygen so he sees a bright future for hydrogen power and is a very strong advocate for that as I saw I go to survey the other day from car company? I bought a car from them. Three years ago four years ago and I sold it not long after it'd be honest but they still serve me about how the cars going on it but one of the questions in the survey was in future. Perhaps when you buy you next car. Will you buy a fuel a diesel a full electric a hybrid or hydrogen powered vehicle. You go yeah how far that's the correct answer but yes available so there's a lot to sort of look at technologically speaking yes in terms of what indeed that's right Apollo and just you know looking at the big picture stuff the the the rocket scientist selfish changed since Apollo Minnesota said Apollo is was the the southern five was the biggest vehicle have produced used the left the earth hundred ten maters toll with <unk> for Apollo on job but we're well on the way to <hes> spacecraft to launch vehicles of comparable tile but which will be much cheaper deeper and you've got to give people like he must credit to that for his his reusable boosters. That's what his lyrical cutlass several times <hes> the IT brings down the cops by probably factor ten <hes> so you know eventually what now costs to that twenty thousand kilograms to put to to to go into a little bit will come down to two thousand kilograms publish something to I two thousand dollars per kilogram currently twenty thousand dollars per kilogram but will come down factor an in general. I suppose <hes> the amount of Houston's it's now made of space compared with what it was like the Apollo era there were a lot of scientific satellites were a lot of military satellites. The were a few communication satellites in the Apollo era but <hes> look at why we all now there something like five thousand satellites in orbits around the planet about three thousand of them defense to something like two thousand operational ones statistic statistic that I noted recently. How realize was that last year to Chinese eighteen on average was one satellite launch per day three hundred ninety something for the year so it was about one day but of course there's all the debris as well <hes> something like half a billion bits of space junk up there at a larger than Aucoin most of that's tracked the so that you know to move the International Space Station out the way when one of these is GonNa Wiz by? I think you know maybe think about this suspect. That's one of the less welcome legacies of Apollo what we've done to our environment in space we really did up and the space network work yeah the deep space network that's right. It was going to highlight not too because we you know that's something we take for granted in terms of the way the data come back from the robotic space probes. The State Spice Network of <hes> of dishes are the three main concerts at Goldstone a the U._S._A.. <hes> it's in California. The European ones near Madrid. That's well established station goes back the Apollo era when of course what is now bill was honeysuckle creek where the first images of the of the of Neil Armstrong's mood will came through talks which took over soon after that Tim Billet Now Korea has the function <unk> just outside camera of being nice as Deep Space Network Station in Australia although I think talks gets rotated still from time to tell him so much that came out of the Apollo missions scientifically so if you're listening to us fi you're smart device you know that's that's one of the legacies of polite and something we will love so much these days and cannot live with that. You're listening to space nuts with Andrew Dunkley and fred. What's in a special edition looking back at Apollo eleven fifty years on thanks nuts finally read? We're going to look at what we call. The intangible legacy science and technology would be obvious things to discuss out of the Apollo program but the intangible well now one of the things you're about to talk about blows my mind and I think a lot of people will be quite astonished by it. <hes> we might as well start on that very point. Yes you made the idea that perhaps the Apollo missions averted weld will three. Yes indeed yeah look at the beginning of the sixties. This is the Khrushchev area at SAR era in Soviet Union relationships between these two superpower superpowers were not good and there are a number of thirty. Mrs Bad pigs comes to mind and things of that so these were in the very early sixties. They were sort of bristling at one another <hes> in a very ugly way and actually I remember. The lift through ally was pretty scary from time to time you find during the Apollo era I lived right next door university right still Menara base royal airforce base they they had had fighters which were ready at the end of the runway to scramble in case of Marauding Russian bummer coming into British spice. They scrambled about once a week gosh that because they the the Soviet Union was probing all the time the defense is just to check everything was or I speak to all of the pilots <hes> and that support staff apparently some of these encounters quite friendly you know the Russian crews would be a waving through the windows at the lightning jet fighter pilots and the lightning that is a beautiful aicraft was love it as a kid but she allowed that lung anyway look it was very much a real threat acts and he lived under that shadow during the particularly during the sixties. Even when I was in high school in the seventies Fred we grew up with sign fees. That is the number one concern amongst young people in the seventies was nuclear war. It will try so in some ways Apollo might have acted as a safety valve for that and you and I spoke about before there was a completing Soviet venture project was called N One and then one spacecraft draft the launch vehicle looked a lot like saturn fine except to slightly bulbous first-stage because they used <unk> fuel tanks rather than rather than cylindrical ones but the end one sadly a for the Russians did never succeeded probably because it was a bit technically advanced they whereas the Saturday five that I h had five gigantic rocket motors doing the business burning thirty tate tilted field per second the end one had thirty Vir- state rockets which were a bit more technological advance that they had I think they were the engines rocketdyne engines were uncertain five but the the Russian whilst they were more advanced they never managed to harness the mole to work simultaneously because of vibrations probably that was set up in the frame of the spacecraft when you blessed it always says he engines off at once so the full I think full test launches which notably succeeded that none of them were were occupied by human so there will neutrons so that kind of took a little bit of the you know the the tension ensure out of the cold wall add just maybe Apollo actually prevented something really horrible from happening at a cost factor to wasn't that's right yeah so while Apollo was is running at tight it was using full percent of the you know the the national budget federal budget in in the United States <hes> about the last decade that NASA has been about half a percent so just shows is a factor eight while it is now just to get the project relating to get it going to financial wool well. It took yes it to the problem was at the end of the actually to some extent <hes> help to shut down the Apollo projects because that because the U._S. go evolved in Vietnam. <hes> you know it was once again it was an I suppose you could call proxy war with the Soviet Union. It was yeah but it wasn't in World War was not what was going to have nuclear missiles with all around the place just maybe the Apollo did divert some attention from that but on the other more perhaps <hes> benign benevolent nodes Apollo changed the way we see ourselves is a species because for the first time we could see the earth is a planet sitting there and see how fraudulently environmentalists it was. I mean I remember the so well Christmas Eve nineteen sixty eight Apollo eight was in orbits around the mood. It was one of the trial missions before Polo follow eleven billion does the <hes> the command module pilot. He took his image of the Earth Rise picture so it's a picture of the rising of the limited mood and people have described what's the most influential environmental photograph ever taken because it just shows what we live on him and it shows the absolute thinness of our atmosphere how much much they really isn't between us and tapes ties. That's right ten kilometers basically by ten kilometers. You're seventy five percent of the atmosphere which is remarkable. which if you walked in a straight lawn only take you a few hours yeah? That's not worry you look to draw ten kilometers to be honest. When I play golf I walk ten kilometers seven miles for she's the fire at all I suppose under that led eventually some twenty years later to the the famous Pale blue dot image of our planet which was engineered by Carl Sagan who who was involved with the voyager one mission for one of course the one of the five spacecraft leaving the solar system altogether? It's now is something like twenty billion kilometers from his from from the sun at but took in Nineteen Ninety Valentine's Day nineteen ninety nine of the fact that he chose that they tell the spacecraft around pointed it back towards in a solar system took an image which shows the Pale Blue Delta a planet Scott. It's an image actually got some streaks on it which come from the fact that they were relatively close to the sunny sky <hes> <unk> from the light of the sub but nevertheless very clear image rich sorry member rightly about a tenth of a Pixel in size of the voyager one camera of our planet and it was at that time about six billion kilometers away so a second Sega was so inspired by that's image that he actually wrote a book about Pale Blue Dots which includes works that I think have become almost almost biblically that input that very very well well no words but I've got a quotation he about we'll radio allow the beginning what he says look again at that dot that's here. That's home that sells audit everyone. You love everyone. You know everyone you ever heard of every human being who ever was lived out their lives. I agree it's about joy and suffering thousands of confident religions ideologies and economic doctrines every hunter and forager every hero encountered every creator destroyer destroyed civilization every kicking peasant. Every uncoupling health is sort of goes on. You know a really brings home that yes this is it as far as we're concerned. Forget about colonizing mas yeah it's all <unk>. We really need to look after it to some extent I think that really kicked off the what we say today as they gonNA mental move which suddenly wasn't that back in the while in the fifties anyway it was just starting to get going into the sixties. I think I think bill on Christmas Eve image from Apollo Egg but it was Sunday spurred on by Carl Sagan these all parts of the legacy of Apollo indeed indeed indeed. I JUST WANNA finish off on where I heard about another photograph that Michael Collins took now and it's sort of relates to what Carl Sagan's woods reflected just then but apparently did look this up Michael Michael Collins took a photo not dissimilar to the earthrights fighter from the capsule of a polar level is as he was orbiting the Moon so you got the moon in the foreground the earth in the background and they say it's a apparently within the photograph of the Moon portion the two astronauts are on the surface at that time they say it is the only photograph in human history that shows everyone who existed before and during humanities existence except for one person and that's guy who took the fighter slow too so he he apparently will get in history. History is the only person ever to be in a photograph of everybody else glowing in itself. It's fairly anecdotal but I love that story. I love that story a good as Mr Gorski the Mr Gorski story yeah. We can't do that. Look that up for themselves. Yeah I think Michael Collins actually add quite a good time on these early in the interview only few hours ago in fact saying just that the music and I had gotten off coffee. It is a great story and it's fabulous story. It's good that two of the story is still around. I'm sorry that Neil Armstrong didn't make it to the fiftieth but <hes> he will always be remembered as the first human being set foot on another world. <hes> I know the planet Yes yes but the day will come when someone else will step on another planet I._M.. Certain of that and you're not far off really scheme of things talking about space not says well. I hope so to Fred. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for doing homework and putting all that together you worked very hard on that new got a lot of Media Commitments Surrounding this fiftieth anniversary so thank you it was it was always it's always a great pleasure but this one especially because this takes me right back to one of the great moments in my childhood that has been with me ever since and I am I say that as is probably a an influential part of my life in many people's lives. Even if I was just an observer it's just one of those keystone moments in in humanity I think and it was just a great privilege to be able to witness even on all black and white television Yup I agree with all of the if you're absolutely right. That's the way I feel about it too so it's a pleasure under and do expect to have the opportunity to compensation like this and we'll get back to Earth next time indeed. We'll catch you next time Fred. Thank you very much and for me. Thanks as always for listening to space nuts. No questions this.