20 Episode results for "Alex Williams"

Introducing Ephemeral

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

09:32 min | 1 year ago

Introducing Ephemeral

"Hey, this is Robert lamb. And this is Joe McCormick. And we're here, presenting you a trailer for a new podcast in our network. That is created and hosted by Alex Williams, who has done work on this very podcast. You're listening to now. Yeah. I'm really excited about this one for in, in part because we've been chatting with Alex about the project since the very beginning and getting to hear a little pieces of it, and even help from time to time on the show if you listen carefully, you'll, you'll pick up on our voices, at least in one small spot. But yeah, I've heard a few of these episodes, and I'm excited to hear the rest Alex's work on this. I think is just amazing. It tickles a particular I dunno funny bone in my brain, which is like, you know, finding old tapes that you made when you were a kid, or somebody else, made, I remember I used to do this at a cassette, recorder and playback thing in my house. And I'd find all these old unlabeled tapes had things on them. I didn't know how they got taped or win and that strange feeling of, you know, probing the past connecting to this mystery and not being able. To solve it, yet having these records of moments and feelings people had an audio that they liked. That's a lot of what a federal seems to be about things that could have been lost to history, and we're just barely saved or maybe were totally lost. And now we only have hints memories of. Yeah. So without further ado, let's listen to the trailer because this will give you a sample of the actual audio texture of the show, which, again is just a top notch. Back before we called it voicemail, or at least when voicemail meant something, different and more specific the world had the humble answering machine. Now, if you leave the name enough, if you aren't of the age to remember dancing machine was physical audio recorder the plugged into your phone lard. You couldn't call into it, remotely, you had to wait till you got home to check your messages. And they were the source for a lot of Seinfeld gas. George is at home. Genta be most answering machines recorded on cassette tape your MAG. Netflix recorded message will be saved until you recorded over it or change the cassette. When I was a little kid. My family had a different kind of answering machine. It was actually taped Lewis. I think it was a Sony, and it was digital. That's my dad, a man who's not apt to forget, a piece of telephone technology. It was like a little tower with a big push button on top that would blink once you had a message in addition to play and shuttle, it had a record button for your greeting. You come to the pre season, forget it used to be. But on this machine, you could also record your own messages directly into it like a voice mobile function on your phone. I think the idea was if you were the husband wife passing running kids around and stuff that you could leave each other. Messages on it, if you were standing in front of it like you wouldn't have to call it on your non existent cell phone because none of us had cell phones back then. I don't think mom and I every ever used that. But you used it because you liked hearing yourself recorded. It sat on top of my parents bureau. So I must have had to climb on a stool, or something that I spent untold hours talking into this device. Voice is gonna come out all weird staticky from the spring recorded it and played it. Many many times is she recorded multiple memo's than hit the play button. It would run them all back to back in the order in which they were created or. To a young me this absolute matching. By this method and in spirit of endless experimentation. I'd fill the tiny hard-drive with recordings structured as shows. I have no idea. What about I'm not sure I did then probably just whatever came to mind. I've listened through it one hundred times pieces as I built my office. Oda. And if you times over as a finished product and wait for my parents to check their messages. I have great parents, so they listened through with at least feigned enthusiasts. But sooner or later, we'd be the space with the click of a button. It was all gone. Van mother. Did anyone there? Over active you've gone on. Why ever okay make another? None of those were saved this tape, I've been playing is the closest thing I have left, it was actually recorded on micro set, which looks just like a regular cassette tape shrunk down to a quarter of the size. My next fascination after answering machines. Here. I'm wandering around my dad's office with his hand held voice recorder. Sound about ten. I made lots of tapes like this. But as far as I can find this is the last one, I have left from this early in my life. Do I wish more had been saved especially those early answering machine productions? I don't know. I guess, so it's comparable to a baby picture an old yearbook or some other keepsake, maybe the most like a Sunday school craft projects for mother's day. Ragged and potentially embarrassing. However, sentimental. Blaze performance, but it's a federal it's a fleeting moment, and it's gone. Even though I was young. I knew that at the time. It's these moments this show fix on lost materials dropped threads forgotten stories ephemera in the way that it's intertwined in our lives, all those things, tangible, and intangible that you wish you could take just one more. Look at before they vanish into the past. America's produced like lots and lots of stuff just piles of stuff and it's sitting around in storage spaces and keep making it and buying it. And then what do you do with it, and it's got to go somewhere. The fact of the matter is all day long every day. There are warehouses full of stuff, getting just pushed off a cliff getting shoved off into the abyss and being destroyed all day, every day. That's the in the gospel, who runs the canary records label a friend of mine, Steve, slowly in a record guy like me, said that what he loves is being the guy standing at the edge of the cliff waving his arms going wait. No. Let me look at those first before you throw them away. I think there might be some good stuff in there might be some stories. We I don't think we should throw all those away yet. Because museums can't handle it. The big cultural institutions can handle it. There's just too much stuff. You know, they're getting donated piles of stuff all the time. The fact of the matter is fair, don't always know, where care. They're looking for specific things that relate to specific narratives. So you always need somebody who's looking for a different story. We have a season ten episodes of stories from that realm of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases not saved at all. A bizarre tale of two infamous New Yorkers in their home and turned it into the shield fortress ephemera, a missing chapter of American music history. There hasn't been a guess culturally that they matter so they get thrown in the garbage a decade's worth of original television lost to the Airways. It's over. You're going to see something else. The next second, nobody's ever going to see a piece of music. That's defied convention for seventy years. Right down, the sounds they heard during it and one girl said, I never realized there was so much listen to. And what could only be called an audio mystery said, nothing on it. And it clearly had been recorded, which intrigued me what is this going to be? These stories and more, given new life. If only for a glimpse. There's times I can't help but feeling like that little kid again talking into a machine that I'm sure won't save anything I say into. Is this podcast, a piece of ephemera in the making a forgotten story about forgotten stories, only time will tell? Ephemeral debuts may twentieth. Subscribe now on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more at a federal dot show. And of messages.

Alex Williams Joe McCormick Robert lamb Netflix Sony Seinfeld Lewis George Van mother apple America Steve seventy years
A Good Life: Happiness and Fulfillment Ft. Alex Williams

Just Think

52:34 min | 1 year ago

A Good Life: Happiness and Fulfillment Ft. Alex Williams

"So my guest today is Alex Williams. He is you host a couple of different shows the one Zaino about our my wax museum, which I ten on ten recommend. And then you also are starting something called deer subjects. Yes. Dear subjects, and it's not much now. But there's definitely some potential there. So yeah, you can check the I know that they're on itunes where else can you be found Spotify, Stitcher? You can find it on my website night worthy dot com. Pretty much pretty much everywhere. You listen to podcasts sweet. Like, I said, I do recommend my wax museum. It's a pretty chill podcast. You just kinda talk with people, and they're not like it's not like Joe Rogan with all special types of people, you know, comedians famous or whatever it's like, there's just seemed like everyday people who have really interesting stories in. Yeah. Definitely check that out if you're listening, and he just want something a little more laid back because I know this show can be a little intense sometimes so and then you can also be found. I know you're on Twitter. I think you're on Instagram. Yup. On Instagram Israel on Facebook. I mean, I'm I'm on Facebook. I don't have a Facebook page or anything. I just kind of you know. Yeah. I just sticked with Twitter and Instagram mostly Twitter for interacting with people. But most of my followers, I think are on Instagram like my Facebook page is dead. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And then so you can come on you wanted to talk about whether or not we should be chasing happiness in a film. This happens thing. Yeah. It is an interesting topic. I kind of touch base on it with Brooke a couple of cents back. But I'm curious to see what you bring to the conversation. And then what you may put on it. So yeah. Tell us a little bit about yourself. So I'm twenty three I live in Calgary Canada. I'm studying to become a social studies teacher for high school the school. I go to is BYU Idaho. So I'm in a little town called rexburg going to school, and yeah, I mean, I've got a big family lots of friends. I and I do podcasting. I do a lot of podcasting. I've kind of found it to be something that I get a little bit of fulfillment out of that's kind of where I'm at too. I've stumbled into this podcasting world about six months ago. And it's it's been a ride. It's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a really chill chill kind of scene. I think you know, everybody's just kind of doing it for fun and is happy to try new things and share with people, right? Awesome. Well, how far how long until you graduated in teaching? Oh, that'll be who I think I still have four four years left. So it's five year program. So gotcha. So you're like getting your undergrad plus your credential at the same time. Yes. So so the way my the teaching program that I'm doing is instance, I'm studying in the states, they they have it wrapped into one. It's a four year degree. But then when I come back to Canada, I'll have to upgrade in order to teach here. You Canadian teachers are smarter. They have to have more education some of them some of them are smarter smarter. So you argue is that what I heard. Yeah. So that's where I'm studying. I go back there in three weeks right now. I'm in Calgary though, in a closet in my dad's house, go. Cool. I know. So I'm moving up to Spokane in may, which is right up against the tip of audio. So that's. Awesome. That's awesome. All right. Well, would you characterize yourself as a happy person in if so why or if not went on? I okay. So. I think with most people happiness is a struggle with me. It's it's been a struggle as well. It's it's not something that came naturally to me. I think my mom would probably describe me as having been a happy kid happy toddler, right? When I was really young. But it was as I started kind of becoming a preteen. I started getting a lot of anger issues, and I wasn't happy. So so the happiness that I have now. Like right now, I'm a happy person. But I've had to work for the past decade or thirteen years in order to amount to that got you got this constant struggle with the hormones that come with. I think part of it being human, right? Yeah. As you get older you as the reality is laurel hits, you it becomes a lot harder to hold onto that baseless. Joy that children to seem to have. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's that it's that view that everything is new. And everything is cool and interesting and has something fascinating to offer. Right. Right. It's kind of funny. Like, do you notice that with the seemingly happy people in your life? They seem to be more childish like have you seen that at all? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they they kind of have a bit more of a curiosity to them. Right. And and and they they're just kind of willing to just try things and do things and sometimes it seems a little bit silly. But I mean, they're just kind of letting go and seeing a little bit more wonder in the world that a lot of people, I think just miss out on right? Do you think there's anything behind that like as far as you know, some sort of world view that may bring people to that mentality later on in life, or do you think it's just that? They don't lose like an ability to desire to learn or desire to maybe unions like Eddie, maybe it's just to stay naive. I think so I don't think naive is necessarily tied in with happiness. I think I think I think it can be. But also naievty can be scary. Right. When your kid I remember as a kid. I was a lot more scared than I was now to right yet because I was less. Sure. I understood less about how the world operated, right? Right. And at the same time. I think you're right on the end that it can also make somebody happier because they don't understand things. Right. And they don't they don't quite see. Well, okay. The reason you get those pair of shoes for so cheap is because some kid and Bangladesh is sitting there working for fifty cents a month. Right. Right. And and so that can kind of bring you down as well. So I think ultimately my belief is that it's a choice. I. I have chosen in my life to to put a little more effort out to find the joy and find the wonder and amazement that exists in the world. I think it's interesting that you label it as a choice, I think most people do, and I do too like in my heart of hearts, I want to label it as a choice, but recently on this show, especially I've been fighting with the Termine ISM and the episode that will be coming out the day after recording. Is it kind of puts a paint on it. Like, okay, here is the term that I realized that I'm going against right? And is that undetermined as is the idea that everything is. Just kind of following the laws of external the laws of the universe. Right. So we are these over gamified chemical concoctions that are just doing their thing. You know, we have no free will we don't choose anything. It's just kind of we are the result of our environment. Right. And I think there's a lot of that going around a lot of people subscribe to that idea. Yeah. Scary which while it's such a relinquishment of of responsibility. Yes, right -solutely. I it says it says, well, of course, I murdered that person because the atoms that were in place at the beginning of the universe dictated it bright. And they're really hard to beat it too. Yeah. We'll we'll. Yeah. Exactly. Like, I mean, it makes sense. Right. You you look at it. And you you say well, look because of this because of this we see these. These 'cause and and reaction right in in every in everything in life. Right. You you drive straight for a tree you're gonna hit the tree. Right. You hit the tree? This is going to happen. Those are predictable things. And well when you scale that down at just it's everything right? It's just that it gets more and more complex are just more and more operations happening at once. You know, so I I try not to subscribe to that. Because I think it's dismal. But of course, if I choose not to subscribe to that I could say to somebody who does that. Well, that's not my choice that I don't subscribe to it. It's just that's just the way. I was determined right, right? Yeah. What I'm trying to do is on trying to build on the show like the best possible argument for determining that I can. So that I can go back and tear it down. But I'm finding it's very difficult to turn it down because I'm. Biology degree, right? So I had scientic background that I can lean on the more that I learned especially with my current class and neuroscience, the more I'm just kind of like, I don't have an argument. But right. It's almost like I think I said this in the subjectivity episode it it's an argument out of necessity that I have to be correct. Because if I am wrong in determined ISM is correct then society as we understand it will kind of start to crumble as it becomes part of our foundation. You know what I mean because? Yeah. When I do about Justice on what do you do about? What do you do about the simple things like full filming something you wanna talk about? How are you fulfil if you have no bearing on what's going on? And then how do we handle things like more or morality or even agency because it's funny because like do we have agency because we know that the there are particular tracks in the brain the dictate agency. So, you know, whether or not you're in charge of the situation that you're in. But if you know that in your brain can find it. But it doesn't matter. You know, it's it's almost like you're starting to get into this entangling circle of knots that seem to not correlate with each other. Maybe that's the go down to take it down. But how can you have agency? But yet no have no choice. You know what I mean? Right. Right. And then I mean, if if determine ISM is truth than, you know, all laws are unreasonable. Why should I be punished this? This wasn't me. Right. Right. That did this. And and if society begins to accept that idea, you know, I don't think that it ends up being being healthy for anybody. No. I think I said it all falls apart. Yeah. Falls apart. If society accepts it society dies. You can turn into this need like if we do find that to be true. Do we argue that it isn't because we have to maintain the status quo. You know, is it right or the world that we're living in without determine ISM than it would be if we understood it as fact, right? And is it that like is is that. Okay. Right. Exactly. Is if if if we if we somehow if we somehow managed to discover that it is true. Right. That that we have no agency that you have no control over your life and your actions then. You know, then then what do you do you just blame blame your existence for the things you do? And and is it okay to go back and lie to yourself in order to convince yourself of or having right like or light to others, right? Tell your children, you know, you have a choice when when you've really feel in your heart of hearts that. Maybe they don't have a choice, but you're telling them because you want them to have a more healthy mindset about the world. Right. Is that okay? Yeah. I the more. I think about it the more. I think that anything is. Okay. Under determined ISM. Right. Yeah. Jackley that that's unsettling. Yeah. Especially if you're a religious like if you're a religious type, you almost have to go against determined because right is no because by definition of religion. At least the religions that we currently understand that there are rights and wrong. So they're so determined ham be true because where's the line for right and wrong? If you have zero choice exactly so yeah, it's interesting. And it's one that I'll be probably struggling with for a couple more months before. I get a clear argument against it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No. I've been thinking about that forever. And I don't know. I really don't know what I believe. Because personally. Religiously I I would really like to believe in agency. And I tried to believe in agency. And I talk about agency as though it's real. But at the same time there's that thought that well what if? We don't have choice. Yeah. It's a hard one. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, how do you feel how'd you feel happy or I guess by determine ISM standards. Happiness is really just something that happens from time to time if you're lucky you get it. And if you're not you don't write happened is. It's just a shot dopamine. Yeah. Yeah. And that takes out of it. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Because you you can't control control that at all. So then Where'd you? And then in all of that, where do you where do you level with fulfilment executive where do you feel that gaping hole inside of you? I think that's a good place to kind of segue into fulfilment. But maybe we should look at it. As Lynn's assuming that determine isn't doesn't exist because that's just to me. And it doesn't exist. Yeah. It's just gonna be a damper gonna burn the whole conversation. That was good though. Fulfillment. That. I think so I feel fulfilled in granted. Maybe this is just my youngest because I haven't actually been real adult quote unquote yet. But I feel like most fulfilled when I'm achieving a goal of some sort. Right. Right. So go ahead when when you've accomplished the goal, or when you're working towards the goal, I'm gonna say making progress towards like accomplishment, and his Graha the problem with accomplishment is that I have this. Now, what after it? You know what I mean? So I have to go find out, and I am not a person who does well with idle hands. Yeah. Yeah. So I think moving towards it. Now what I know that I'm moving away from a goal or I'm having a setback. That's like the worst feeling in the world. And when I'm in limbo. That's also a horrible failing. So as I was going through the process for getting the law school. There was like a month period. Where I wasn't hearing back, you know, in right? That was like I was losing way too much sleep over it, which was funny because like I shouldn't have been on a new at the time that I shouldn't have been, but it wasn't a very fulfilling filling to be stuck in this limbo. But when I got the letter that can't, you know, tells you the scholarship in the you got accepted into the special programme yada, yada, yada, yada. Like that that was a moment of just like great fulfillment. And now I'm living towards that goal. And it's just been. Great, right. Yeah. And it it feels it feels good when you're moving. I think that's the big big thing. You gotta be moving forward. I I actually kind of. Stopped making deals about the goals. I kind of you know, for for me, I guess completing school is a goal. But I don't I don't think about it very often. Right. I think I try and live more right now because I'm the same way. Once I once I get that goal. I say now what right. What what is there? Now, what am I what am I doing? And there's that nothingness between. And so what I've found in what I've really tried to do is is creating those creating little habits. Right. What am I doing today? Right. And just focusing on that so that I carry that feeling of fulfillment throughout every single day. And eventually you just reach your goal. And it's just kind of. Oh, yeah. I did it, you know, and it's done. Yeah. You just keep going, right? Instead of instead of thinking, that's the. The end all and be all once I get there. I'll be happy you'll be happy for five minutes. And then well now what right right, which kind of goes back into your question or happiness until film at the same thing. And I would've said no before this conversation. Yeah. And now what? Because you just move on the you may be. Yeah. You're heading for five minutes, you happy for a day or have for a week or whatever. But the right is is that as you're going through that happiness. You may still be fulfilled as you may be unhappy. You still may have purpose in life. And he's still may understand that purpose and beef affiliate by that purpose. But you're still unhappy, right? So so it can so you can be fulfilled and not be happy. I think you can be fulfilled. But being like starting down the trend of not being having. I think once you hit miserable. Neil, you're probably not filled in new more because there's something else going on. Right. I think they work together. But I don't think one equals the other because you could be totally happy and not fulfilled at all. I mean, just look at drug addicts when they get that they're happy. But there's nothing for filling about that life. Right. Yeah. Exactly. Right. And I think that's that's the super, hyper chemical satisfaction, right? Over over a really good. Actual pleasure. Right. Yeah. And and so I don't know I try and I try and find fulfillment in my day rather than chasing after that happiness because then you get on the treadmill, and well, that's when you just start watching Netflix all day long. And that's a struggle to avoid that. There is something that's like nice about being able to sit down and do nothing for days at a time. When I when I was younger, you gaining that was my outlet ruined. It was just one of those things where one day you just kinda realize like, okay. What am I doing though? So so even by gaining I'm assuming you mean working out in getting muscles and getting fit right gaming gaming. Oh, I thought you said gaining. Okay. Okay. Gaming. Yeah. No. So so why why did you gain? Because of his fun. Like, I was I started gaining when I was six and I still do. I'm not demonizing gaming. It was like when it became aggressive. But yeah, you do it because it's fun. You're not thinking about the existential crisis that you're about to enter if you take this too far when you're in the middle of it, right? The so some background. I started gaining because I had access to it. So when I was young I mean, my family wasn't by any means that we don't have money. Right. So we didn't have TV sometimes, you know, there weren't meals on the table, but we had a computer the end because of like some serendipity with how the world was working at the particular moment in time like we didn't pay for it. But we hadn't. So that would be kind of my escape because other kids would watch TV or they would watch movies or whatever. And I could go on this all day of computer, and like play the Oslo or something you know, what I mean? And that was my scape from the real world and everybody has an escape from a real world. And I think everybody should whether that be reading or gaming or writing or something I I think straw. I think TV's a little lazy. But it's still an escapement in scape as an escape. But what? So go ahead. No, no, go ahead finish your thought there. So when you you know, you're going down this path of pursuing your time suck because everybody has one and write it goes too far. Then you start wondering. Okay, I'm happy. Sure. Because you know, you're you're getting these dopamine hits as you get that ping and call of duty or you're reading this book and get a doping if you're getting nowhere with outside of your time. Suck you have to ask is what I'm doing fulfilling. Right, right. Is it is it moving you forward? Or is it just kind of satisfying your needs to have dopamine. Right. Exactly. So I kind of so I thought about this, right? 'cause I mean. All these things you mentioned writing, which is something I do. And and you got to wonder if if things like that can go too far because gaming is obviously always put in a spotlight. Right. Because it it tends to go far. And and and it's popular right now, there's some great stuff out there. So one thing I try and ask myself is when when I making something am, I am I creating because I mean, you can play Minecraft you're creating beautiful things there. You know, people do crazy things in that. Right. Are you just creating or are you contributing is it is it something of value that you're creating are you progressing? Like, I think Microsoft is a great counter example to what I said, I'm Mike can be used a tool to learn it correctly. Most people don't use it that way. But if you are using it that way, I have no issues with that. And I have no issues again with just three hours a day as you release playing call of duty or whatever. In writing you would think writing wouldn't have the same problem because you would think oh, I'm constantly grading and constantly stimulated. Therefore, you know, how can you have a problem with that Taylor? And it's like, okay. But are you ever progressing in your skills as a writer, right? Because if you're writing crap for years on end, and you're never workshop, and you're never giving it to others to read and critique don't accept criticism. Then you're not actually doing anything in what you're progressing as a person raise. You're stuck in the same bubble. Right. Yeah. You're just you're just doing something mindless, you're not you're not creating value for yourself or the people around you. Right. Exactly. But so so does does fulfilment come from from a a selfless sort of behavior. Is that is that's kind of what it seems like right? I mean writing can make you happy. Right. It gives you a brief. Moment of satisfaction. But fulfillment can be that contributory act of sharing it with somebody. Right. Right. Does that e- add does foof fulfillment correlates to sharing with other people and happiness with a selfish keeping it to yourself? I would think the answer is probably somewhere in the middle of all things. Right. And this is where individuality to come in. Because I think for some people knew can be fulfilled will being incredibly selfish. Yeah. If you're motivated by work. Yeah. Work hall. It's come to mind. So if you're extremely motivated by working you want to be successful when you find fulfillment and success than you're not thinking about other people outside of them being a means to your end. Right, right. But. I mean, I I'd be curious to talk to somebody who really does feel like they're selfishness is is fulfilling because I think even even the people I I know few workaholics one of them used to be one of my managers, and he loves his job. He's a workaholic. He's always always there. And but but for him, it's not about making the money the fulfilment, right? It's nice to make the money. But for him the fulfilment is spending the time around the people getting help to help the young people who who work at the restaurants. He he manages, right? Okay. So I I don't know. I I mean, maybe there's somebody out there. Right. I I don't know what it's like to be another human being. Most people it's going to be somewhere in the middle. Right. Because if you're completely selfless than sure you may think you're fulfilled. But at some point you're going to be unable to be selfless. If that makes sense. Yeah. So if you find fulfillment and selflessness, but you never continue creating the need the means of what you can be selfless. Then you're going to lose it because you're gonna lose the ability to be selfless. That's a really weird way of putting it right? But hopefully, it gets there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, you have to you have to keep your priorities straight. Right. Right. You have to know. Okay. That's great. You just gave your clothes to homeless person. So they can keep warm, but now you're gonna freeze to death on your walk home. Right. Right. And so how do you? You know, strike that balance. I guess where you're. Yeah. Yeah. Other otherwise like you said you can't help people anymore, right? Yeah. It's funny. He's like the go to a Christian university are known and there's such an emphasis on. Virtue and showing that virtue in one or another. And there's never like no one ever really says publicly that you have to be successful in order to help people on a grand scale. Right, right. The success is kind of looked down upon you know, it's harder to put a camel through the eye of the needle than it is for a rich man to get in heaven. Right. That's the concept. Right. But the thing is I it. Okay. But if you're rich, you can do great things, right? Where do you draw the line for that dichotomy? Right. Well, I know there's there's a I mean because of that saying that it's harder for man to get or for rich man to get into heaven than to put a camel through the eye of needle. Because of that saying I think there's kind of this weird. A false humility that some people have where they say, well, I'm poor. So I'm humble, which isn't true either. For a lot of people. Exactly. I mean, I mean, I've I haven't met these people, but I've heard about them a friend of a friend. They have ten kids and the the father of these ten kids chooses not to take a raise at work chooses. Not to take a promotion at work because well, what if I become prideful, right? A lose. My humility isn't that fried in your current status though? Exactly. Right. And so it's it's that backwards false sense of humility, you think you're being humble, but you're really actually damaging the people around you. Yeah. And you're holding them back to work. 'cause like if your goal, especially if you're religious is to minimize suffering in the world. What is it that you're doing that as minimizing suffering? And what is it that you're not doing that could be minimizing suffering, and do you really think holding ten children back? Is minimizing suffering when you have the capability to push them forward. Exactly. Right. And and I mean, it also comes down to the the issue of. Okay. Well, I have I have an extra room at my house. So do I fill it with homeless people right right instead of them suffering outside in the cold this winter. So it's it's that it's that issue of okay MIS selfish person because I didn't do that. Right. And it is an argument to be made either way too because you can easily say, well, no because if everyone did this, then we'll be perpetuating society. Laziness, exactly, right. And again at the same time in the middle. Yeah. And and how are we supposed to know though, that you know, that that will perpetuate it, maybe that'll change it. Maybe that'll make everything better. Yeah. It's a hard one. Right. Yeah. You you can't. You can't predict the future so easily. Right, right. So yeah, I I really I really have no idea on on now on I I don't think they're going to be any answers or stray of answers in this show. Of course, not. There's very few answers on my show. Just tons of questions. Yeah. I've I've noticed which is which is how I think I just sit there all day asking questions. Well, what about this? Yeah. But what about that? And it's probably why I'm not as involved in politics as sometimes I'd like to be because when people want politicians to have answers, and I don't got any right. Well, it was funny because I was going back and forth with a couple of people hear about, you know, I'm finding that. There's to me thanks to this podcast. You know, there's there's the meat who is able to act and I have to act based on my convictions. And that's the side of me. That's extremely political. That's extremely argument. That's ready to debate. You, you know. And then there's me who wants to learn. So he can I can understand whatever you want me to understand even if I fundamentally disagree with it. You know, the the example that I've been pointed to the most right now is Marxism. I've taken a lot of time to understand Marxism. Couple weeks and light. Okay. Cool. I understand. I get the concept. I can see why people think it's a good thing. But I can't act on it because I know about it. But it's not in my convictions. I'm unable to act on anything. Right. So we can appreciate the other side's point of view or understand it. Yeah. Or understand it? Yeah. But I can't act on it. And then I can delve deeper into my point of view and find its flaws on the flip side, you know. And then so if if I'm in that knowledge gaining mode. Yeah, I'm unable to to give you any real policy. But if I turn that off out of the psyche of a need to get things done, then it's almost like the negatives. Become I it's it's a game of which negatives are worse, which ones may willing to live with am. I willing to live with the consequences of advocating for a solution. Because you have if you have blown your hands. You have to hold it. You can't right. And it's not there. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's kind of MacBeth seen. Yes. You know? So. I like. I don't know is it. I don't know what bounce strike. I think it's e kind of have to carry two opposing viewpoints. And. Yeah, that's kind of everything. Yes. Right. And that's not comfortable, right. It's it's I was talking to a friend. She's she's studying educational researcher research education. I don't know which order, it's. But she she says she studying this, and she was telling me how. So there there comes a certain point after you reach adulthood, so after eighteen somewhere between eighteen and twenty five is usually when it happens. She says where your your brain is actually able to carry two opposing views. Right. So so you're actually able to say. One for me personally is okay. Who's to blame me? I'm to blame for all of my actions. Everything I do right? And I take responsibility for everything around me until it becomes unhealthy. Then you know, you need to carry that I'm to blame. But also other people are to blame. Right. And you you need to carry those two almost opposing viewpoints. Because a lot of the time people will swing from one end of the scale to the other and then back again, right? It's you say a lot on college campuses too. And I'm sure you can probably tested that as well. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I I I mean, I think pe- people take extreme views because they see some some benefit. I've taken a lot of extreme views in my life. If you read through any any of my political notebooks that I that I have if you re through any of those you'll be like, well, this this guy's a communist. And then, you know, flip over the next page. This guy's like the craziest capitalist on the planet. And and it's because as you grow up, you kind of experiment with different things, and you try different things. And and and I think that being young is an excellent time to do that as long as you've remember? Well, but I'm just trying right? I don't know. Yeah. As long as you can remember that. And as long as you're not in charge of anyone else. Yeah. Work very hard to not be in charge of anything when you're young. So that you can try things. I think I've had a major turning point. Probably about six months ago, where the economy of ideas, I always kind of had it to a point. I could understand different sides of an argument. But that doesn't mean that I could understand the convictions behind them. If that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah. And then but now with thanks to this project, especially I feel like I've gotten a lot further there, and yeah, the like progression of political thought, you know, I I don't mind going into this a little bit on this show. But like I started out as a libertarian a die hard libertarian. And then it's like, okay as I'm getting older. Sure, you know, in my heart of hearts, I want to believe in libertarianism. But there some realities of the world that don't allow for it, you know, or if it was taken up by society would be pretty bad, Brian, right? So going through that and learning it. Yes. So you kind of you took your view you took your stance. And then you, you know, MU moved away from it as you. Okay. We'll maybe that doesn't work. So well, right, right. And as less about embodying it, and maybe more about working towards it in a practical way. Right. Right. So how? Do you think there is an you don't have to tell me which philosophy it is? But you think there is? A singular philosophy politically that would. That would reach reach fulfillment for people that would reach for it for everyone that everyone would be able to get on board with saddle up, and you know, right off into the sunset, right? A year ago? I would have probably had an answer for you. But the more I learn about history the more learn about philosophy the more. I learn about psychology the answer is increasingly no, I don't think. So so I can tell you what I operate under politically, and it's not necessarily how operate throughout life a politically. I kind of usually you till -tarian ISM. Right. What causes the least amount of harm with the most amount of gain. Right. And there are people who disagree with me on what does those things? And then there are people who may not see as far as I do or Macy farther away, whatever they have different circumstances in their life, which poses a challenge from my point of view to be seen by them and vice versa. So I think no when you consider the differences in culture like between an American in a Saudi Arabian. How do you? Those two to reconcile their differences because there are extreme differences between the two. Exactly. Yeah. And they're so they're so embroiled in their culture of thousand plus years of whatever their environment has been not been positive versus, you know, a hundred and fifty years of western thought that was kind of separated enough to not be heavily influenced by that same culture that influences Assadi. So you know, what I mean? So I don't think there is a one system fits all for the entirety of humanity. Which may be the problem that the United States is trying to figure out right now being a melting pot. But right. I mean, I it's interesting because there is I mean I in Canada we have a ton of immigration here. So we we have a lot of different cultures that we have to try and understand and appreciate and actually later today. I'm actually going to a Sikh temple. Just to kind of meet them and see what they do. And and try and understand that culture. Right. And and you're you're exactly right, though. There isn't a one-size-fits-all when it comes to a political policy or culture or anything because you know, people are different right? Right. Even even between, Canada, and the US I notice a lot of when I'm when I'm down in the state's going to school. I notice a lot of slight cultural differences that that that kind of just just they're they're they're close enough that I'm not completely thrown off by them. But they're different enough that I say that's kind of interesting that that's the way you see things are. That's the way you understand it, right? Yeah. I think the big question that especially the west is trying to figure out is whether or not at what point do we draw a line and say, this culture is bad. Right. And there's there's almost virtue signaling in accepting culture. So we're trying to incorporate all things as good in. I mean, just by virtue of western philosophy. There has to be something that is bad at some point. We're trying to find that line where it is. Unlike Canada seems to be taking a very extreme approach in inclusivity aggressive. I live in Canada. So I can't attest to it. But my main question there would be like, okay. Where is it hurting you guys where is it holding you back, right? Right. And I don't know. I don't know if there's. I'm sure there are a few things that that hold us back. Because of that inclusively, right? There might be there might be a little bit of misguidance right right in some situations. Nothing that I personally have witnessed. But probably more what somebody who's more politically involved and aware would be able to attest to my my stepdad was driving down the Queen Elizabeth highway here in Albert and and he's driving down and suddenly his son roof shatters. Right. It's it's it's broken. And and so the next text message. I get from my mom once she hears about this. She says I can't believe this happened son rooster dangerous. I never wanna get a sunroof again. And and and I just think you know, I I sold cars, and I never once heard of someone sun roof break. This was the first time, right? But there's that one instance. So if if if Donald Trump. Trump's presidency is negatively affecting group of people. They're going to talk about it. But there are a lot of people that it's benefiting as well. Same thing with Justin Trudeau Obama was the same way. There are some people who are going to be negatively affected by it. But the people who are like actually affected by it on a real personal level are very few and far between. And and. You know, I've e- even even with all all these people talking. Oh, the economy's not that good. I still been able to go to work go to school saved my money live my life drive, my car, right? Right. Because because. Okay. So all these big things are happening. But you know, it personalize it right? What does this mean for my life? What am I doing in my life to find fulfilment right to to make my life? Something good. I don't think I don't think you should let political. Leaders take so much effect especially living in North America. Where we got a pretty dang good. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So no, no matter who's in charge. I think you can still find some film it in your life. There's a there's a real danger tea with getting political especially the people who take away too far. And I think Twitter honestly is a perfect example of this. You know, you have. You'll you log the Twitter, and if you're plugged into these political circles at all it's just miserable. And it just kind of brings you down with it. Because there's constant issues. But yeah, I do think there's a need to for an individual to understand that. There are circumstances within their control that would be better for them, the focus on to stay happy to stay fulfilled and to move on with life, right? And it may come back to that Torres happiness and fulfilment. I think it's good for people to also have some sort of plan to get there. And maybe that planet for some people's turn off Twitter to work towards that feeling because the whole sun roof thing lot of people get hung up on bad. It's easy to get hung up on bad, and it's easy to like. Okay. My son roof broke I'm never going to buy us on roof again and forget that millions upon millions of sunroofs or putting around in North America. And they don't break very often. Yeah. Sounds like don't get lost in that. Okay. Maybe this ban thing happened to you. But says typically it shouldn't have in. Don't let that ruin feature experiences that just more likely to happen anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. You don't. It's that negativity bias, right, right? And and I think we we hang onto it a little bit too much there. Are good things in in this in this world right in our lives. I mean, heck I'm talking to a guy in California that I met over the internet. You know, like all of these, you know, across the world, we're recording a podcast that we're going to put out so that anybody anywhere who has the technology, which is a real base level internet technology. Can find right, right? And that's that's a pretty good thing. I mean, we we live in an age where not only is information just so abundant. But so is encouragement, and right technology is to the point at least in the western world where it's almost seen as a right to have access to. So so you you have no excuse to kind of linger in this negatively by sort of deal. Yeah. It's it's definitely a fun idea to play around with. So what would you say is the most important thing? Or maybe what's been the most important thing for you to stay happy to stay fulfill. Like, what is something you've had to work on or eliminate in your life, or whatever. Perspective. It's a hundred percent perspective. Just working to have a good attitude. I'll tell a quick story if I may about the so so I I mentioned earlier at the beginning of the podcast that that going into my teen years in preteen years. I struggled a lot with anger. I was always angry. I hated. I hated everything everything and everyone except for maybe my mom, right? Okay. And and I just had this great is taste for everything in the world. And. And it was once I went into great seven. So I was twelve years old going into great seven. I started to try to try and be positive, and my mom told me fake it till you make it which always say is kind of bad advice. Generally. But it worked for me. And and so I started pretending to be positive to try and e that happy that nice person. Right despite totally suffering on the inside. And I'm not saying bottle it up, but I was trying to to be this person. And it was finally in great ten when I was sixteen that I realized oh like I'm starting to make it because this guy this this jock in my class. He is in phys, Ed, and he the the hunger games was really popular at the time. And and so he comes up, and he says, yeah, you know, I think I'd win the hunger games because I'm awesome. Right. And we're all talking about how far we'd get right? And one person was like, well, I think I probably get kind of closest to the closest to the end. And I said, oh, I I bet I'd win. And this guy looks at me dead in the eyes. And he says, no he says eat. You'd probably be the first to go. And and that's kinda I mean, that's not very nice, right? I he's he's calling me slower than everyone else. And and dumber than everyone else. And I was like man he thinks I'd be the first to go in the hunger games. Well, dang. And so I responded with this though, I said, well, hopefully, then at least I'd be able to provide some food for somebody. Like, I literally said, hopefully, somebody would be able to cannibalize me. So that they could get to the end of the games. And it was the weirdest grossest. Strangest comment to ever come out of my mouth. And he looks at me. And he says, you know, man, that's kinda weird. But I got huge respect for your optimism. And he patted me on the back. Never bothered me again. And so it's just that that building up of perspective of try and look on the bright side of things. Right. Even if it's not only takes it for. Yeah. Exactly. Right. I mean. Okay. So I'm dead. So maybe maybe that will benefit somebody else. Right. Try and try and take some angle where where you can't get knocked down. Right. Right. And and you know, it doesn't happen right away. I mean, I had already been working on this anger problem. I had for four years. And now I'm thirteen years later, and I can really say, well, I'm happy person, and I feel fulfilled. And and I feel good about my life because I've worked on that perspective. All right. As a great place to start winding down. So that's that's good. I mean, I think there's something that everyone can take out of that story to except maybe don't be a cannibal. But, you know, don't be a cannibal. Yeah. Even in the hunger games, even just just take to take the l and move on. Oh. So you had said earlier that it's hard to like. Project where you'll you know, how you'll be in five years or whatever. So now, I'm going to pose you an impossible question based on what you said earlier. What do you think you would where do you think you need to be in five years to feel like you're filled since we've made the distinction between fulfillment and happiness. Feel like I'm fulfilled five years. I feel like continuing to maintain the good relationships that I have I think that'll that'll keep me fulfilled in five years. There are a lot of you know, I hope to be graduated in working in five years. But I think the the base necessity in order for me to fill fulfilled would just be to continuing that maintenance of the good relationships. I have with people already. All right. That's a great answer. What about you five years? Let's say I should be out of law school by then in a couple of years in practice. I think as long as the people who are in my household are taken care like there. There's no issues, you know, monetarily there's food on the table. They're happy. They're able to do some things outside of basic living. Right. And they have the ability to be better than I am. If they have the ability that they know if I can pass the torch of improvement along the generational lines to them and they succeed or they're on the path toward succeeding. I think that would be my greatest sense of filming, you know, knowing that I've done something good. That's always been my end goal. Yeah. And as long as I'm not plateauing intellectually or at work, or whatever I think I'll be doing. All right. I think it'd be happy with that info filled by that. Like, my biggest fear right now is falling into that rut that most people seem to fall into of they just don't progress anymore. They're just kind of stuck in this lull. Right. You wake up go to work come home waste time. Go to bed wake up go to work, rents repeat. Right, right. It's the same thing every every day and nothing changes. Right. Right. All right. Well, this has been Alex Williams for those who weren't listening or forgot since the beginning of this episode who are you? What do you do where can they find you in what should the out? I am as Taylor said Alex Williams, you can find me at night worthy dot com. That's K n I g h t worthy dot com as where I have all of the work that I do I do a lot of podcasting. And I've a few little Instagram things and stuff that I do as well. You can find me on Instagram and Twitter at Alex Williams, that's Williams with an N. So w I l l I a m and s. Yeah. That's me. Right. Check him out. Like, I said before I highly recommend the my wax museum podcast. It's a great listen. And I look forward to it. Whenever it pops up on my feet, so cakes. All right. Thank you for listening to just thank him. We'll catch you on the next one. All right. Go ahead and stop recording. And then. Yeah. Sure. Hi, I'm Taza. And I'm Elliott, this is tesla Elliott argue do you like weird headlines. I only ambient accidentally proposes to girlfriend wakes up and doesn't remember any of Florida gun owners plan to shoot at hurricane Irma plane forced to turn back after mother frigates newborn airport if any of those caught your attention, you can find us at Tessa Elliott argued dot com, we come out every Sunday morning. Check us out.

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The Nature of Ephemera, with Alex Williams

Ridiculous History

42:43 min | 1 year ago

The Nature of Ephemera, with Alex Williams

"I'm Chelsea handler. And I'm launching a brand new podcast with iheartradio called life will be the death of me. And I'm gonna talk to all these different people, my BFF Mary McCormack. That's what we should call. My book tour the apology, or great idea. Sorry. Everyone on this whole pot should be called. It should be called with the orange because of the orange theme in the book Archie. Glad I went to therapy. Life will be the death of me with. Chelsea handler listening subscribe at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Ridiculous histories of production of I heart radio. Welcome to the show ridiculous historians. Thanks so much for tuning in peek behind the curtain. It is officially summer in Atlanta, the humidity and the heat combined to drape the city in soup it feels like walking through soup. So I am very, very glad to be here inside our air conditioned. Studio mine is my name is Noah. The shipping container is icy cool today, an outside it is sort of this Meazza, this sort of funk, this patina of awful. Hot sweaty grossness that does kind of invalid the city and it happened overnight. Didn't it? It just happened overnight. Yeah. Permeated permeated this fair metropolis of ours. I always forget about how dire the situation becomes when we hit summer in Atlanta and, you know, this may mean that we're in here recording more episodes. We do wanna start the show with a big shout to our guest, super producer. Ramsey ram gems young, so everybody give him a fine. Hello, do we does he get us out. Sound effect. On a good. Yeah. It was very good. So, like, and of course, this does not mean that we will ever forget, our wonderful the our third amigo. Right. Super producer Casey peg REM. Gone, but not forgotten gone. I say, but gone wear Ben the we were talking about this. So I have a theory every year. So Casey disappears and in France, someone else, reappears, very different person who happens look a little bit like our dear friend Casey, peg room, this guy, we imagine is a member of the criminal underbelly of Paris known. Only by the name liberal. Yeah. And he dons a completely different gap in the form of a very slick looking leather jacket a single dangling cross earring on his left on his left ear. And sometimes he wears fingerless gloves and rides around one of those cool little mod motorbikes in the in the pictures, yet, and we strongly suspect that he may have one or more secret families. It's true. None of us, we cannot confirm or deny any of this. We are widely speculated. It's all true, though, put the pieces together people, we're gonna have to let Casey his day in court here and defend himself. But, you know Casey's night here, we're joined with Ramsey helping us pick up the slack here. He's doing his double life, but that's not the only person that we have on the show today is that's absolutely true. This is a special episode that I know we were both very excited about we have in our network. A brand new podcast, the we're, we're all huge fans of sincerely, huge fans of and it happens to be created by one of our close friends, who you may have heard mentioned on our show or other shows before, folks, let's give it up for Alex Williams. The brains behind the podcast we call them real because that's name of the pie cast. Hi, Alex makes us call it that just by. Chew of having titled it being very good. Thailand, a very fine podcast. Thank you for being here flattering introduction. I'm I'm very happy to be. Here's the thing we've been working with you for quite some time. Now, we've kind of seen you grow and develop and become more and more of a bad ass in with the pros referred to as the podcast space and making the wild gesticulating, quote fingers when I say that you really have to. But here's the thing, you really took it in other level in terms of making not only a history pike cast, but something that I referred to, and I describe it to friends as something akin to, like poetry, meet sound collage meets music concrete meets history. And I think it's just a really beautiful piece of work, and I'm just beyond stoked that it's on our network and that you're the guy behind him. So we'd like to ask you. That was such a good. I don't know if I could pull up that was great. We'll now it is your turn. So we'd like to ask you some questions about if them about your your inspiration behind the first yet with, with that. That excellent description of that, just just resigned. What, how would you describe it? How do you describe it when when someone's like, hey, what's this thing you're working on, I start stammering and sweating? And try to make it as concise as possible is thinking of quick pitch and bed the other night. It's something like. A show about fleeting moments and the things they leave behind. That because that's what is right. As is, is, is sort of remnant of thing that no longer is around. I guess kind of the idea of things being a federal means that they're fleeting or that they're here today gone tomorrow. But they do leave behind some kind of residue if you know where to look, right? Yeah. So the word itself is kind of tricky in the textbook ephemera might just mean paper, right, broadsides tickets pamphlets for museums. Basically, anything printed hand-printed, you know, printing press computer-printed that wasn't meant to be saved. But then it gets into the issue of how do you determine whether something was meant to be saved or not, right? Like, for instance, a train schedule from the early nineteen hundreds now the ones that are around are considered to be things have historical value. Right. But when they were printed, they were thought to have a definitive and very short life span or span of utility, one of the classic examples is the stamp that episode of working on that come on Mondays about the Monday that might not be the Monday, you'll come out on a Monday. They'll come out on Monday. I don't know when this will come out to stamp is really classic. Example. Right. So you've written a letter to your friend know and you've stamped and you've put in the in the mailbox and he gets it. He rips it open and reads the letter, and he's over out with emotion whatever throws out or recycles, the, and that's it, but, but no happens to have great stamp collection, and I've sent him, you know. Inverted Jenny stamp from the nineteen thirties. And so he is over with emotion, because of my great pros because this is a great addition to his stamp collection, because he is a full lettuce or Phillips. How how how it's pronounced HI, L A T I S T one who collect stamps, the route were to fill lettuce. Sorry could also be one who fillets. That's what I would think a fillet. That's how the British pronounced fillet. They pronounce it Filat relay to a hard t- Senate. The end of it, I always find that very interesting because sometimes the Brits seem like they really own the word. Sometimes they just feel like they're mispronouncing just to be cute cute sort of aluminium. Like that's not the word Brits. Come on. It's aluminum, you're adding syllables don't belong his letters added feel. Feel the Merican English to be fair. We can't really criticize the people who are doing it. I that's also fair been if they wanna add an extra p on shop than that's kind of their call yet to answer that question about Amal. It's interesting because it comes from French and Greek so. A Telia means exemption from payment. The French feel means loving, so it's loving exemption from payment, which is weird right now. But it's it makes sense, but then asked me to explain it. Well, a we can learn more about this. What do what did you what are you exploring on this episode concerning stamps? Well, it's not it's all over fourth. You know, one of the things that we're doing is actually taking the word apart in this in this episode. So ephemera comes from. The route where it's epi, meaning honor of EPA, curious epidermis and Hamra meaning day, it's like a Latin Greek combination word and so starts being used by people in, you know, the age of enlightenment, I guess, to describe things that only lasts for a day. The may fly, you know, certain species of plants that flower wither a day. And then, you know, becomes with time more broadly used to describe things that don't last a long time, you know, or fleeting, and that's we start getting into trouble because, like in know the metrics of a human life. Maybe one hundred years at best, something that doesn't last for long means something different than like geologically, right? Like melting polar ice caps or federal at this point, who's that philosopher said all is a fem. How if I never heard that I've never heard of that. Maybe it's maybe it's a flaws for Marcus Aurelius. Okay. There we go. Merel both what remembers what is remembered? There we go. How have I never used that quote for something tagline a hang on the show, where off the bed? I'm full of vaguely remembered one liners from ancient philosophers so ephemeral ephemera by its nature is sometimes a little hard to describe, as is the show. It's not something that you can just encapsulated in a quick elevator pitch. So I put forth that we listened to a little bit of a clip that can then set up a discussion what he say of. Sure, elicited the call your brothers, sir, as a kid, FRANZ, leads father would tell him scary stories before bed only these stories, true, my father or the engineer inventor who never really had much used for fairytales aid preferred real life CRA test Krys to fiction until bedtime. I would listen raptly CHU is urban Harz through. The most Macab Cal was the one of the Kyler brothers, the hermit hoarders of Harlem. In their four story Brownstone of the corner of Fifth Avenue one hundred twentieth street. The brothers seal themselves up to the great depression, both world wars, and Harlem shifted from a rich white suburb to a poor black slum. It was there in Brownstone that they amassed from the world's legendary collections of urban junk. And in the end the color brothers had one hundred eighty tons of junk stored in their Brownstone. And so this image of this horror house things like tattered, toys, Christmas, trees, and leaers rusted. Bicycle roken baby carriages Ford model t mouldering chess, fourteen piano, sweated babies, and for mala hive and newspapers. Hundreds of thousands of newspapers. It was a collection extrordinary that they're complement was confirms New Yorkers. Worst nightmare there. Crumple people Trump rooms, crumples possessions, crowded, chaos of the city refracted in their homes. It's not that New Yorkers Ord more than other people. They have less room the horrid in. So the call your brothers. C O, L, L, Y, E R A were just as described in that clip right there. What we would call compulsive hoarders. Yeah. I, I don't know the history of the term Horder, if we're applying a modern term Akron aesthetically, but yes, hackers I suppose, maybe it's like an older term. Yeah. But hoarders, certainly, could you tell us a little bit more about these brothers? So there's really one book on them. And it's, it's a by a fantastic. Exquisite writer named FRANZ lids who grew up hearing, you hear his voice in the clip he grew up hearing, these stories from his father as, as bedtime stories as scary stories that he wouldn't tell he would tell FRANZ these stories, but not not FRANZ sister, for whatever reason I thought that was interesting. And so when fronts group. Decided to learn everything that he could. Because no one had really written anything besides they were sort of part of the urban legends of Harlem of New York to the point where it was almost a cautionary tale. Like even the, the new York Fire Department would believe they had a term that they used called Collier mansions syndrome that referred to extreme instances of extreme clutter in apartments, that we're fire hazards. So it almost became as the name of the book implies called go, St. men these, these guys almost cast kind of specter over this particular region to the point where they were so embedded in the cultural and oral tradition. Storytelling go stories became kind of cautionary tale most right? Yeah. There's also a there's also a racial element to that to the two brothers Langley and Homer mood with their parents from Manhattan to the budding community of Harlem in the eighteen ninety s sort of. Economic boom time in Harlem, this new rich fancy suburb for people that want to get out of dirty New York get out to basically. Yeah. Well, it actually the economy crashes, and there's, there's a big bust, and all of these rich families like move out. And there's all these empty space in Harlem, and then there was a vertically racist practices taken on by the landowners and hard line. Fisher. Literally things that were called like negro surcharges see, and they would take these big beautiful Brownstone mansions like the collarbone lives in a four story, Brownstone mansion and divide them up into, you know, six seven, eight nine rooms fill them up, overcharge African Americans to live there. But so anyways, the Colorado is where some of the few white residents at that point, too. So. Legend is that neighborhood kids would Chuck rocks at their windows and stuff. And call them go, St. men, both referring to like, they're sort of creepy. Hermit never come out of the house. There's a dead in their Radley vibe. Yeah. And also, you know, perhaps racial connotation. Do you sell stuff online? Then you know what? A pain shipping can be. It's time consuming. It's expensive. It's a hassle until now introducing ship station. 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It's interesting, too, because the there's a parallel story, this reminds me, which is the Maizels film grey gardens where it's, you know this mother and daughter that live in a very, the come from affluence. They live in this very similarly, decrepit kind of mansion out in the burbs away from New York City, and they're completely kind of delusional and sort of exist in the strange bubble together. And that's sort of what ended up happening with the Collier brothers were, they got to a point. I believe one of the Homer, I believe was a child prodigy, and like ended up getting some advanced degrees and did really well for himself for a time and then they ended up just kind of withdrawing completely from society. And that's when the extreme hoarding that we're talking about started to begin and that's also where the legend stuff kind of comes in. Right. They really both were prodigies head advanced degrees from Columbia and like admiralty law. Even is that I. Maritime stuff. Yes. And I believe also, one of them was quite a talented, pianist Langley played at Carnegie Hall, and was followed by the, the famous pants the time paderewski, but paderewski, quote, got better notices than he. So he gave up the piano, so he can always be discouraging to work that grind of the music industry. Regardless of the era in which you live. Let's, let's talk a little bit about what's. What this time line of degradation looks like because while they were infamous in their neighborhood, and their community, especially as a things started to get worse. Worse for the mentally, you know, Homer, got a stroke, the started becoming more and more reclusive. They didn't reach national attention until nineteen thirty eight when the New York Times reported a false story about them and said that they had turned down an offer of one hundred twenty five grand for their house. There's a lot of strange sort of tabloid. Yeah. A New York had eleven newspapers in those days. There was lots of lots of things it's sort of bounce around an echo chamber. I suppose, so there's a lot of strange leads that you can follow the, your brothers that you never really get an answer to. I should say that Homer quits, his job language stops playing the piano, their fathers moved back to Manhattan. At some point. They stay in the house with their mother and really sort of start shuttering in, in their in their sort of mid twenties. Then their mother passes away, he passes away and is buried in some sort of bizarre kind of cult like ceremony just whisked out of a window one night and take into cemetery. That's very far away, on foot and it's never in the paper or anything, there's no bitchy airy. She's just she's just on one day, and they wanted to keep it private. I suppose after that they more or less had no contact with the outside world. I believe homered lost his eyesight became essentially, legally blind, and he I'm going to illustrate for you here had rheumatism and was doubled up like this with his knees below his chin. So for the description, just since we're audio show, Alex, has assumed a somewhat fetal position with both legs folded up against his chest, and his arms folded around holding. His legs, I made this part. That's all, you know, the arms is just may. But so poor the poor guy. Yeah. And in his thirties, this happened, I believe losses eyesight Langley became his brother's keeper. And I mean I really do think they were they loved each other. But very dutiful to each other Langley, devise this scheme of feeding his brother one hundred oranges day. Yeah. Regain his eyesight. That's one of the, the poll quotes, we have left of Langley Collier, and he saved him newspapers, hundreds of thousands of newspaper when he could read it when he could read, again, which is heartbreaking. And sweet. These newspapers, obviously yellowing rotting sure there. You know, it's a four story humongous mansion Langley, made them into arches, tunnels and made an inner framework for their mansion out of newspapers and all kinds of other to try. I mean, there's really no. I have incredibly long lists of this stuff that I've pulled from different sources. Oh, yeah. Let's see baby carriages the bikes because apparently Langley was so Homer. Never sought medical help for his rheumatism is correct. Well, it's hard to be absolute about any. You know, like we have the one book, and there, there's, there's things that we will never know for primary source because it sounds like a lot of the headlines of the time that contemporary papers you mentioned we're just reporting stuff that would sell papers. There was we actually don't talk about this episode, but there's one reporter Helen warden is her name Langley, sort of took a liking tour. She was waiting outside of his apartment, or at some of the Brownstone one day around midnight. He came out to make his nightly rounds. He would walk around the city and just drag a cardboard box with Strang behind him. Yeah. And fill it up with just whatever stuff he came across all kinds of things. She met him out there, when when night at the outside the Brownstone. And he just sort of started unloading information on her. She made mention of maybe visiting inside the house one day, and that's when he stopped and took off. Yeah. And this is this is interesting because around this maybe around the this is after the time when Langley began not going out until midnight, right, and the returning home with junk, a so one of the things that people familiar with the story. Probably always mention it certainly thing that I bet producers would mention when they're talking about fictional. Add up -tations will be the booby traps where the booby traps, real. That's a question favor fairy real. That's the big kicker. I mean talking about this labyrinth Fien infrastructure of garbage essential, right? I mean, it was like walled up kind of every window every door and they rigged it, so that things would literally if there were intruders, or dare we say, some sort of, like tomb raider type situation. People would get got. They, they really wanted to be left alone. I mean, there's certainly is some paranoia and some fear built into that collect collecting habit. I heard that the booby traps were not a not a thing that they just come up with out of the blue. I heard it was a reaction to a number of attempted burglaries on the house. When people began to think that they were hoarding not only junk, but also a financial fortune. So maybe there was some logic behind it. They were from well to do family. At some point, they reportedly owned a large section of waterfront in New York awhile, actually their parents were like cousins, and that well-to-do. Yeah. Came over on the speed. Well from England. Yes. So I don't know if anyone ever tried actually burgle their house, but they're certainly, you know, other utilities got cut off, one after the other. So people from the city would try to get in their house. Police officers. Absolutely. And Langley would occasionally just sort of reach his head out the window and scream go away more. They would just say nothing to them. It's sort of brings you right to this fateful day. Oh, are you talking about in nineteen forty seven March twenty first when police received an anonymous tip that is the very, very damn talking about, you know, no, you're in this episode in the recreation of this, that we do this. Right. What did I do? I don't it's been so long working on this for such a long time. I've been doing re-creations. I have. Absolutely. You will you. And Chuck are, you know, maybe we'll we'll leave it to the listeners into your voice, and our friend and colleague, Chuck Bryant are intertwined in this. That's awesome. It's the one where the cops yelling at the window. I do remember this. That's right. New spoilers there. But yeah definitely there. That's the kind of stuff you can expect in this show. It's not only, you know, it's not like this whereas me and Ben gabbing about history. It's a real experiential thing, and it's got a lot of these kind of cool production touches that really make a special. But what happened that day? So this is what we're said, March twenty first nineteen forty seven then fateful day, the police receive a non an anonymous phone call. Well, Charles Smith is the guy who gives the phone call. Never. We never been able to follow up on Charles Smith's Alex did the did the air quotes. So I forgot that doesn't come through tro. Smith calls the police and reports Abbadi at the Collier residence. Police show up police that have been there before no, this places booby-trapped. So they proceed with caution. But they do break down the door, and it is walled up with junk, they can't get through. They start axing their way through. And. Vapor of decay erupts out onto the street the as MU going say very much like Atlanta in the summer, it's all come area March, so for basically a whole day they're trying to get in different ways. It's all tunneled. They know that there's booby traps things like feces, jars and bricks and nails and things like that really terrible horrible things that could very much Indra person someone breaks through. Takes a ladder up to the second story breaks through window and finds Homer. Collier doubled up as always is in the corner. But he's shriveled up dead. How long had been dead that it seem for like of a better word fresh, or was the corpse, like, well, it, I'm not sure how soon they will determine it. But it had been awhile awhile. It had been a while. And then the real question was whereas Langley as he killed his brother has he fled. And the search that went on took weeks to find Langley, Collier. Did they search the city or the house? It was an international search allow, yeah. Like I said eleven newspapers New York at the time, so that echo chambers going crazy. Boom, boom Langley, Collier's getting cited everywhere in different cities in the Carolinas Chicago on train extracts of there's a moment where a guy, there's a photograph gets some guy, literally holding a sign that says, I am not Langley, Collier kind of like a little beard and a little scruffy. And, and maybe looks like one of the call your brothers. So this is all clearly building to a conclusion of sorts. It turns out, however, that Langley, call your has not crossed the Atlantic is not smuggled himself into Canada or Mexico where where exactly is. It's very tragic. He's. Found ten feet from where his brother Homer was found. And it's a it's, it's a number of weeks later. There was so much junk and they'd spend all this time clearing at police and firefighters clearing. Then eventually professional cleaning crews are clearing crews rather just ten feet from his brother. He was coming to bring him food and caught one of his own booby-traps Ohno died there and Homer died of neglect. He hadn't been fed. And so you end up with this Lakewood. No was talking about earlier this sort of bizarre stranger than fiction tale. That's in bedded in folklore. And it reads a bit like a morality tale. But then I don't know what it is that the call your brothers. Did that was so wrong? Like, I think saying the pro they should pay their taxes and stuff. But it's also a very distinctly New York kind of story where it's like you're surrounded by people being in New York every inch every scrap of space is used up is, you know, occupied and you have no, there's no sense of freedom, kind of, when you're walking around New York, it's a beautiful place and there's a lot going on. But it does have this claustrophobic feeling to anyway. So the idea that especially now knowing we know about real estate prices, and all that two men would just like own this, quite opulent setup and just allow it to become this absolute nightmare in that way. And it speaks to kind of the cluttered feeling of New York as a city. I think it's very interesting. Parallel there. And yes, is there anything wrong with being a hoarder, or collecting things or any of? That's no. But this speaks to something I think a little bigger than the and that paranoia and the fact that these two were all they had, and they got into this, like, you know, kind of cycle of just not wanting anybody else to be in their lives at all. And yet, they're living in the most populous place in the country, whether it's so much culturally going on, and such an interesting time in history to write FRANZ lids calls it a New Yorkers worst nightmare. For me. This also calls to mind a documentary called crops. Are you familiar with this crops? He is a documentary about an urban legend regarding a boogeyman like figure that stocks people in this in the area surrounding a place called the willowbrook mental institution which had been closed down. And in the in the course of this documentary, they find that this boogeyman like figure this modern urban legend is based on fact, and there is a real there is a. A Pearl of truth inside this, this. Clam shell of scary urban folklore. We got there so uglier than a Joe Montana pass seen that documentary. But I didn't remember it until you started talking about it. And it's good. Yes worth while documentary, I need to rewatch that. Hey, I'm Andy, if you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous, but I did start a men's grooming company called Harry's. The idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience. I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced over designed and outta touch at Harry's. Our approach is simple. Here's our secret, we make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each. We care about quality so much that we do some crazy, things like by a world class German blade factory obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering one hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of guys have already made this, which to Harry's. So thank you. If you're one of them, and if you're not, we hope you give us a try with this special offer, get a Harry starter set with a five blade razor waited handle shave gel, and travel cover all for just three bucks. Plus free shipping. Just go to harrys dot com and enter four four four four at checkout. That's harrys dot com code four four four four. Enjoy. You've heard us talk a little bit about the call your brothers, folks. But if you want to truly experience the story, which goes much deeper than what we've discussed here we highly recommend that you get the to your favorite podcast app of choice, starting on the seventeenth of June to talk out to check out the call your brother story. However, there are other episodes of Meral available now like as you're listening to this. Please listen to the rest of our show before you listen to the next one. But what, what are some, what are some topics that really stuck out in your mind, you've published recently? Well, we've just published an episode interviews, Sarah Wasserman, who's a professor at the university of Delaware is basically an ephemeral teacher. Oh, yeah. And so, she's the peop- the person who can really answer some of the tough questions that we brought up at the top of the show, the episode before that is a study of. Autumn American diaspora music. You might say what immigrants from the collapsing on empire. In the early part, the twentieth century, the teens twenties thirties, fleeing, like people are from all over the world coming to America and recording. Heart-stopping beautiful music in New York, mostly Chicago for big labels Columbia, Victor, and then also some small independent labels to so music in Greek and era bec- that has largely almost entirely been forgotten these records that were pressed in, in, in limited in limited quantities, because of some sort of racist practices at time. That's the sun as she knew part of the area where I and one of our one of our colleagues Dylan fake, and from in Tennessee is has a huge population of Lebanese immigrants who have left, I think Lebanon was at least in name ruled by the Ottoman empire until that collapse room. What posts World War, One nineteen eighteen and I think I've heard some of I have to listen to this. I think I've heard something that might. Fai in the Shawna, that's bizarre to me. And I mean, there's all kinds, it's not there's all kinds of music. There's party songs their heart prick songs, and there's fantastic singing and playing and things that don't that don't really have the vernacular to describe. But we interview in this episode and really where all of the inspiration for it came from his gentlemen, and in gos- key who is in Baltimore. And does reissue records of this stuff? Literally sometimes pose them out of the trash, I I've seen pictures of some of these records. They have so abused. And does everything he can to salvage them to save them to learn as much as he can about the performers? Sometimes you can't find anything. Sometimes you get lucky and spread the word about it. So it's, it's a it's a fantastic interview, that's part of that. And the music. And it is, it's some of my favorite music now. I would love to hear it and don't take our word for it. You can tune in and check out this music yourself. And that's the thing which you're gonna get with this show is the conceit of the show is such a cool one, but it also allows for such a broad range of topics, which I think is really important, even for a show like what we do. Like our only Lynch pin is that these stories are in some way, bizarre, strange or ridiculous hilarious. And so that gives us like kind of carpal to like all kinds of different directions similarly with your show, very different show, but very similar heart in terms of just being fascinated by things and wanting to get answers to why things play out the way they do in history. And just kind of I think anyone is into this show, even remotely going to be very much into your show as well. To me, it's a it's a there's something about it, and please take this for the profound complimented. Is that reminds me of the free associate of nature of the? Film, waking life the way that it it connects in this very intentional good dreamlike state. You know what I mean? This is this is one of the podcast that I hear a ton of shows, but this is one of the ones that comes with a very new and unique voice. And, and I mean that sincerely, you can compare me to Richard linkletter anytime. I find that so it looks like we're going to we're going to have to save our, our own explorations of things that came and went for a nother day. But shout out to pizzeria chips, I miss you. If you're listening, if it defy big demo of our show is extension, pizzeria, chips, exam potato chip. That's terrified gained Saint PNC. I was gonna talk about Betamax tapes. We're only literally killed production was killed by Sony, like end twenty sixteen. And I believe they stopped distributing the players and recorders of Betamax, tapes, only a couple of years before that, but that used to be kind of, like, go to for high resolution news, footage and archiving. And now I actually have a stack of Betamax is on my desk right now that I'm trying to find a place that can transfer them digitally, and there are folks that have them, whether they're news agencies or like companies that specialize and digitizing your family member. That's big business now because of this nature of fem and not only is the medium antiquated now the way of playing back as gone or much more scarce, and that's as you have a really great trailer for your show. That's all about answering machine messages. And how that used to be such a cultural thing that people would do, and it was important to leave a really good message and just the idea of these things that kind of came and went left an impression, and now it's almost kind of specter like hangs over society, and it's really interesting, and I'm looking forward to hearing more from a federal with Alex Williams. I'm going to go into save. I have this great list that I'm gonna save imposed on our Facebook page later for ridiculous stories because I didn't. Okay. Job just mentioning pizzerias is really hard not to just immediately start talking about them. So I'm just gonna like mentioned some things that left and then we'll pick it up later. So check us out or Facebook page ridiculous story, and should be able to find a federal wherever you find your. Your favorite podcasts like ridiculous history, and so on. And the meantime Alex, thank you, so much of for, for coming on the show, actually, another started with people who the curtain. Let's end with one our office actually close to few hours ago we're able to convince you to stay over and take this strange journey with us. You know, before I feel like be remiss to not mention that particular history was the first show that I helped make at a very beginning. It was it was the three of us at the very, very beginning of it. And now I'm not sure if you know this or not you've got so much on your play. We thank you at the end of every episode of the wonderful theme that you composed. So now we can do our little thank yous. And we can do it in person. Thanks to Alex Williams, who composed our theme and for being here today for an interview I did know that. And I very much appreciate. Yeah. We are big fans of thanking people in the show. I'd also like to think super producer Ramsey ram gems. You don't think you? You so much for saving. The show Ramsey things for having me guys op absolutely our pleasure. Thanks to reduce Casey Pegam here in spirit. Not forgotten gallivanting around Paris right now, living his best second life. Thanks, Christopher haciendas also here in spirit. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland, aka the quizzed, as well as our research, associate Gabe L, who desperately needs a nickname. So send some suggestions are way. Ben, thanks to you for always being friend and confidante down that road back again, you know, the drill gay, thanks you as well. No. We are gone for today this episode but not our show. You can also find us on our apprehension Facebook page, you can find us on Twitter. You can find us Instagram. You can also find our we're personal shenanigans misadventures and malarkey on our personal Instagram at Ben Bullen actions, change, my handle I am now at how now. Now. No brown. And where can they check out a federal on the social media's Alex ephemeral show? We'll see next time folks. For more podcast from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this ridiculous history is brought to you by before breakfast. Did you ever want to twenty fifth hour in the day? Well, I can't do that. But if you listen to before breakfast, who's Lor Vander Cam can help you get a little more out of each day. She's the author of multiple time management and productivity books, and she studied thousands of schedules over the last ten years figuring out how to maximize personal and professional lives. You'll learn how to track your time how to find more time to read how to be better at small talk. And that's just the beginning. 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New York City Langley Alex Williams Ben Bullen Harlem Homer Brownstone Ramsey producer Atlanta Collier iheartradio Langley Casey Paris apple Chuck Bryant Mary McCormack
Bonus Episode: Ephemeral's Alex Williams

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

57:40 min | 1 year ago

Bonus Episode: Ephemeral's Alex Williams

"Wanna ride a horse across mongolia road trip through mississippi. Give alms at long prolong or tuck into a bush dinner in remote western australia join join host and travel writer daniel chef ler on the new podcast everywhere tune in every week for new adventure across the globe but it'll help you feel like you're part out of this world. One travel commandment at a time listen and subscribe at apple podcasts are on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts welcome stuff to your mind production iheartradio's. How stuff works. Hey welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is robert. Lamb and i'm joe mccormack boy. We gotta treat you today. We are joined uh-huh by our friend and our former producer on this very show. Alex williams say hi alex reformed producer. What's going on man. Oh you know just hanging out with what's up with you. Well you know we're we're just having a bonus episode in your honor. What's going on here jeeze. Thanks right before we get going. We were sitting around talking about riddick movies for how long i don't know it was a while i was mostly listening because i hadn't seen the movie in question or any of the riddick movies. No you're here prefer reason today alex t tell us about it. Oh <hes> <hes> because i have a podcast called ephemeral. Yes really good folks. Yes it is <hes>. It's a very exciting podcast because it's it's really unlike any podcast i've listened to before <hes> in terms of its subject matter but also in terms of the high. I production qualities that you bring to it. Thank you you you guys. Did it very nice when you you did the trailer. You've put the trailer out in your feed. <hes> i think when it first came out and did it very nice nice endorsement then to <hes> about the audio quality which i thought was very sweet. Thank you yeah yeah. I mean the quality is wonderful but it'd been more but more important though is is is the topic of dealing with these ephemeral bits of media. Can you just <hes> you know speak to everybody who might not be familiar with the show. I haven't checked it out or maybe they didn't catch the the trailer drop. What are we talking about. When we're talking about ephemera the way that <hes> sarah wasserman is the material culture studies the professor material culture studies at the university of delaware the way that she sort of differentiates what ephemera from other kinds of disposable things junk trash is that ephemera takes some kind of curation. Someone has to do some active saving for for it to <hes> to continue to exist something like winnebago manage familiar with winnebago man. I i listen to your episode where you deal with winnebago goeman yeah. He's the guy who is there outtakes of him trying to record a t._v. commercial for winnebago's right. Is it a dealership or a new model or something. I think it's a dealership the ship it's like the eighties v._h._s. The guy's name is jack ravni and he's just getting so frustrated on this day. She was complaining about hot. It is and he's just swearing continuously. Just have this s then everything and <hes>. I guess you really pissed off the crew because they got together this video you of him. All of the worst moments i guess in this sort of a compilation this way twenty years before twenty plus plus twenty six years before youtube and this compilation video survived all this time. You know this would just get oh you. You might like this thing. It's like debit for you on v._h._s. Robert my legacy for him on v._h._s. even aired on public television. Is this show called because is it bleeped <hes>. I don't know i haven't been able to find the copy of it that aired. I mean maybe that's the version that we have on youtube now. There's a show called the show with no oh name out of in <hes> austin texas that air just weird clips like <hes> things that are someone unsavory sometimes like james some james brown being arrested arrested things like that or when james brown he was doing a talk show and he was <hes>. He seemed to be an altered state. Things like that that you know we're all there's tons and tons of them on youtube. Now yeah like <hes>. I think we've we've talked before about everything is terrible is <hes> is is a show. Can you ought to youtube channel and it goes beyond you too but they do a lot of this where it's <hes> it's clips from films and like old like like weird christian jin v._h._s. tapes and the kind of stuff that would just otherwise just be completely food just fall through the cracks history but <hes> you know they keep it alive alive so that we can <hes> find pleasure in it and laugh at it. Why is it that instructional training videos make such or oil <hes> like <hes> ephemeral media. I you know i'm just making a supposition but i think maybe because they're made for such a narrow audience and often with such little money <hes> <hes> i can just go onto archive dot org or there's a great cycle the av geeks that just curate that kind of stuff old industrials educational educational films and p._s. Says i can just get lost on the rabbit hole of that stuff. It's so so bad so good because i guess like if if no skill goes into or like just a very small amount of skill like that in of itself can be amusing but then you have an instructional video like the famous <hes> shake hands with danger danger <hes> which has fantastic and just a almost borderline offensive <hes> <hes> you know <hes> graphics special effects for industrial injuries taking place and it's out of keeping with amateur aspects of the rest of the production. Oh it's like the the old <hes> high school chemistry lab safety video. Isn't that everybody off so much just would they had the special effects for like shoving the broken glass into your hand and i think all of that in at least this particular definition. It's like those things all would theory easily because they you know maybe the because of the narrow audience or because of maybe uh of bunch of different reasons would not stand the test of time unless someone only because somebody said hey this is different this is this is for some reason worth saving right yeah well. That's interesting to think about like <hes> what are the the evolutionary traits in media that allow allow certain pieces of media to survive whereas most other pieces of ephemeral media from their time fadeaway seems like a very strong. <hes> criterion of selection is like ironic comedic value absolutely but it can't be it can't be just that right. There are other things that cause a a piece of you know what you would have thought thought would-be ephemeral media to get saved right. I mean like what are there's some things. I know you've talked about. Were you you. <hes> you talk about like old home recordings that aren't particularly funny une- or anything they just have kind of soothing sonic quality to them that you can't stop listening to am i right about that. Sometimes they certainly are funny but <hes> yeah i mean i have have really the very first couple of minutes of the pilot episode of this that pitched it with and that is the first. I was just called pilot. Ah in the in the feed is about one hundred sixteen seconds. I think of family recording that we don't know any of the people in there's an uncle jack and there's a little girl blamed gale and talk about shoes. Remember that yeah show cashews. There's a little boy named brian and they're it's it's it's so unique because there was an actual moment in time right of an actual people gather around a living room and kitchen or something from a movie or anything no no no. It's just a it's a it's <music> a real surreal that this this collector named bob purse who just for his own personal interest in and to share them with other people goes to giant antiques sales and <hes> you know <hes> also all kinds and buys anything that's like unlabeled or as you know has an interesting description on it or it's just interesting. We looks old reel to reel tape specifically other things to acetates home recorded seventy eight yeah all kinds of odds and ends but specifically rehabilitators what he's zeroed in on <hes> and so this real tape probably from the sixties. I thought to be recorded around when that caitlyn oy. I guess or your neck. Illinois think is right because it's because of i guess where he bought it. As the specific moment were the uncle jack is brought over his tape recorder to this family and the kids are going is trying to get kids. Let's say they say words on it. You know tell them about the school he goes to in the friends they have and the liberals shy at first but then she opens up a little bit and then the little kid brian they're trying to get i'm just kind of say some of his first words but he of course won't vicious kids never do you try to put the microphone and they're facing now perform and starts chewing on the tape recorder and it's just a little tiny tape. That's not all that different than lots of other tapes put. It is like this one family. It's this real moment that we just have have loading around part of the appeal of that. That cliff is just how how how honest it feels like you. There's no doubting that this is an echo oh from from the past from this actual family moment and and then at the same time it is it is kind of haunting like in a good way like that that kind of like you know the style pick a haunting feeling that we get when we listen to something that is either an an actual fragment of media history or if or if we have something like say <hes> i instantly think of the musical say boards of canada that <hes> that are able to channel that level of sonic nostalgia and have the same effect effect on us. It's this isolated bubble of unselfconsciously joy. That is infectious because it doesn't feel like a performance yeah which is funny because i guess yes. It is a performance. I mean the very thing is that the they had the tape recorder running but it doesn't feel like the kind of performance we're used to like a professional performance. We were not intended audience. Yeah you know it with the family was the intended audience and <hes> in in here has escaped and it's kind of like a voyager probe right <hes> like leaving the solar lose system and being picked up by some other force the certainly magic in it i mean i i hear that in all kinds i mean the the last episode that we did of of the seasons at ten seasons all out now the last episode taped over and we play family recordings from my family. My wife's family my best friends family and our producer and producer on a ephemeral matt frederick from stuff. I don't want to know other things brealey really fascinating take his a grandfather recorded his mom matt's mom and and matt's uncle on a dicta- belt in nineteen fifty one whoa which is incredibly early to have a home recording from recurring technology was just mostly in professional settings you know until really the sixties when <hes> real theriault became much you know cheaper and people could afford to get them in their homes. <hes> and it's the it's it's that's trying to get first words from his mom and mom doesn't wanna play along because she's a baby. She's not gonna perform just because you put a microphone acre front starts crying started banning the microphone around this last weekend i was with my <hes> my nieces nephews from phoenix over here and i was visiting with them and i had this old tape recorder from the eighties and i was showing them how to use it and instantly they were you know i can get them to look away from a screen you know and they just have a different childhood than we had but instantly they save the tape record this shy its owner perform. I let them hit. The buttons rewind it back. See the tape heads spin thick hit play and they hear themselves say you know hi brooke save it or whatever and they're mesmerized and they don't wanna they don't wanna put it down. It's like you'd be this. This is an old thing from the eighties you have to you have to give it a little bit of a more grace than you know. Maybe your ipad. That's got this fancy case on it but i think that there is as i think there is real magic and something like that and i don't know if it's intrinsic and the analog media itself alf or if i'm just installed for it or if it's some kind of combination of those things but there is. There's something there that cuts across. I guess is what i'm trying to say now you. You had a pre existing <hes> interest in all of this ecorse. <hes> wonder is there. Is there a particular piece of of of ephemera that kind of you know inspired you to put together the show and then is there an example of a piece of immer you discovered in putting the show together that really struck a chord with you lots but that that i that showing jackie shoes that's hundred sixteen through there what the show is built around the whole show our producer jusin mcneil and i were at a bar after work one day pitching ideas back and forth because we knew we wanted to do something and i said no this this tape than this collector bob purse and there's something something there and so it was kind of trying to put my finger on that i might still be working on that part of it and then you're the question is something you discover like some bit of immer. That emerged emerged <hes> the the the you was new to you during the production of the series. It's been so much new to one of the most interesting has been learning about the dumont television network so the very beginning of television when it gets out of his experimental phase and goes commercial which is basically like right at the end of world war two this four networks just for four networks and you know that get little affiliates all over the country and three three of them are still around a._b._c. n._b._c. c._b._s. And the fourth was dumont and dumont was just. Maybe a little bit more low budget. It was kind of punk rock and just wacky stuff. I mean early. T._v. was really wacky. Cause was all live and they were shows and stuff. There are some puppet shows yeah they were you know figuring out a lot of the things and some of the things that got figured out on dumont or translates to today i mean they were the first network to do daytime television because radio all those other three companies were all radio a._b._c. n._b._c. c._b._s. Radio companies had big daytime radio soap soap operas and they didn't want to cut into that business that had been paying their bills for a longtime but dumont was the first network that went into that daytime brooke has because we don't have any income coming in there and we're ready to take our color patterns down off the screen and put something on and so you know they had a show called okay mother a chauffeur moms <hes> you know certainly couched in the gender attitudes of the time that was pretty similar something that you would see like the today show or something now live studio audience playing you know games giving giving away prizes bring on guests and sort of just light goofy energy to it so you know t t to rep of the two-month at they were on the air for just a decade something like twenty thousand broadcasts or hours of broadcast and i think three hundred or so individual episodes of survived mostly held by like individual collectors like maybe someone who's his relative worked at dumont or you know. The national archives the museum of television division of radio. Maybe has a few of them <hes> and most of its just gone. It's just gone because it was the there was no there was no recording then and it wasn't even meant to last forever. Wherever the only way that they could record it was <hes> doing something <hes> making a <hes> kenneth scope. Which is you take camera and you film the screen. Uh-huh that's playing the television and the reason they would do that is so they could take that film. Canada's foam can send it to you know they're california affiliate or something that wasn't connected to the coaxial cable oh and even those they wouldn't really save because there was no reruns back then right. There was no intention reuse that so it's just that active curation someone saying you know either by choice or by accident hammond hold onto this that we get to see any of that and kind of dip our toes into that that moment of history street will also get a sense i mean i wonder if you'd think like did the creators not even think of it really is a an artistic product. I mean something that they would want to be remembered. It was something more like to fill time. I think there's a mix and i think yeah. I think it's one of the inherent things in television. Probably there certainly certainly were arnessent very creative people. I mean jackie. Gleason got his break on dumont for instance. This is fascinating shows that they did it. Show that was all it was called the plainclothesman all told from the perspective of detective like from his eyes of you yeah going all over town live single camera shot yeah you see his hands and you zoom in on a bullet hole on the wall or hold a piece of paper and take a magnifying glass and pull out of single line and that's all live. They'd have to stage stage all of that out in advance so that they could nowhere to go and win well. It was all live to a point <hes> so also that was lie but then they would play out <hes> sometimes they cut away to a sequence. That actually was edited. It was an early example of putting editing on television because editing was nothing on early television. Primarily the show was all told live and there's one one episode left and it doesn't circulate. It's in the <hes> museum of television radio <hes> <hes> i. I'm hoping to make my way up there at some point seat. I've just seen a little clip of that it. You know i think back just on the television from my childhood and especially junior high you know where we you're videotaping a a lot of television and i remember like painstakingly removing commercials <hes> and then i'm just you know you were you were recording movie after into bed or something so you just let the commercials <hes> you know take take place and inevitably i think like taped over and or lost or destroyed all those tapes and and now i would i would love to just be able to like sit down and watch an episode of mystery science theater three thousand from the nineties with all the commercials yeah just so i could experience that again. The bumpers <hes> on stuff like the scifi channel. You know it's like that's those little details or or or some of the things you've grown most status daljit for you know i watched the first time ever watched <hes> star trek. The next generation was my my dad was a is and i think i inherited a lot of this from him. A archivist <hes> you know tape it all label yeah and he still has a closet full of v._h._s. tapes that are just sort of degrading there because i mean <hes> the the experience you described with like cutting out. The commercials is something that i don't think you're younger. Listeners probably will relate to at all because it's just such a it's such a relic of the past but that was important thing then because there was this feeling like i'm not only am i taking the television edited version asian of aliens but but i am going to preserve it forever and so the the cut has to be flawless wait so did you think you do the thing we stop the recording while it was recording when the commercial came on positive boarding while the commercials on and then unbothered when oh yeah yeah i remember i was so proud of myself that i had put together on one tape so since it was on one tape it must have been the terrible low-quality extended play mode on the tapes all right but i got the entire star the wars trilogy with all the commercials remove <hes> from one time when it aired on t._n._t. Or something like that and <hes> and i was like this is i have done done such good work here and i wore that tape out. Oh god that that's another thing just wearing out of the tape like the the quality. One of my favorite films still one of my favorite films but one of my favorite films growing up was <hes> was jim henson's labyrinth <hes> yeah and our copy. We watched it so many times that it it was like damaged and we had to get repaired. I don't even know how that was the thing but we took the tape. Somebody repaired it and it just sounds warped forever now. When i watched <hes> like a labyrinth i thought of <hes> streaming service or something off d._v._d. Is just not the same because it's not warped and weird like the audio quality agrees to <hes> so in in the the affinity you've looked at in the show like how much is the the decay and how much is it about the errors in the quality. Oh i mean i'm an awesome. I'm an audio file on total audio specifically for like lo fi stuff <hes>. I've always collected old toy tape recorders and stuff like that us. Oh yeah the artifacts that stuff is a gold mine for sound designer just if you can find cracks in records and skips and things and warps and sounds dumping leaping <hes> i love all that stuff this suspect is something that <hes> we've talked about on the show good bit before like when we talk about assay historical sites of interest you know like an ancient temple or something like that that is deteriorating due to the elements all that <hes> should you restore things like that <hes> more sh or if you know the modern world has come to know an ancient temple in its partially deteriorated career rated and dilapidated state. Should you just allow it to continue deteriorating or should you try to freeze it as it was at a certain point in time and say okay okay all the deterioration up to this point will allow but deterioration after that we want to prevent or <hes> i can't remember if i said <hes> allowing to deteriorate or restoring but it seems like in any case you're no matter which choice you make your like exerting your will on on on on the form it takes and the same thing happens with media totally like i mean media changes over time it collects artifacts that collects changes it collects glitches. <hes> and i wonder well one thing. I wonder i guess is or are we losing that quality in the digital world. Sorry no terrible tangible. <hes> you know there's just a lot. They're losing losing in the digital world. I mean the safe answer is yes because we're losing most things in the toll. No i just mean like <hes>. I mean obviously there's a huge thing where like there. There's so much great ephemera from the ancient world. You know look a huge part of how we know about the past is from like capturing bits ephemera and interesting things like you know when you get a copy of an ancient manuscript. That's thousand years old. You might not even know what the original text in the manuscript was because because it's got things written in the margins i don't know if that's supposed to be part of the tax laura when they write the perpendicularly over the other talented episode reminded about that ended and so like in and they didn't realize at the time that like you know whatever monk thank in prague or wherever it like didn't know that his copy of this thing would be the only copy would be the only one that future generations wins have and so like they wouldn't be able to tell if the notes in the margins were supposed to be part of the taxed or his own thoughts about taxed or whatever and <hes> and like you never never know really you never know if like the the copy that you're holding of something is going to end up being the copy of reference for future generations or if it's just gonna fade and be destroyed like most other things are the digital world that seems kind of different because like copies are made at scale perfectly all over the place and i wonder if we're we're kind of losing some of that magic because of it i mean it's it's it's twofold at least right. <hes> there is a way in which something phys- physical analog is much more concrete. I mean you can see see the lifespan of it. You can say i can see the yellow pages of this book but i can still flip through them as opposed to like if a zero and a one get flipped in the binary code the things gone <hes> you know if it's uploaded in some cloud service that gets hacked. It's gone <hes> <hes> so there's a way in which each analog things i hate to say permanent because i don't think anything is permanent. Particularly everything has transients at a different scale ale yeah. That's that's how you start feeling if you look at it too much at least me but there's a way that that material real thing feels a lot like a house more longevity me then the digital thing which is maybe contrary to the way that you know. I saw it before that it's easiest to see it. I mean i tell you one of the one of the great things about more and more things being digitized because not everything is digitized far from it ryan mhm but like this show where we do. I don't know i've never counted but like a hundred and fifty two hundred qs episode of different sound bites and pieces of we're the old movies and little audio clips and all things smaller the place would would be next to impossible ferry very difficult in <hes> <hes> an analog time where i'm like. I have wax cylinders and they're all kinds of all kinds of media that y y you know imagine the library that we'd have to have here in the i heard offices for us to pull something like this off but i can. I can just be you know a dude sitting at his desk going archive dot o._r._g. And <hes> <hes> you know various other places so i i mean. I think that's pretty amazing. I'd love to see when you're saying. The monk didn't know that this would be the one copy. I was thinking what if chose perfect copy of the star wars trilogy was the one copy that we then no. I think about that kind of thing sometimes but i mean i think that would be unlikely now. There's so many digital copies and they're all over the place but <hes> yeah you should applaud your copy to youtube okay. I mean maybe doing it. You know 'cause no another great example to go to go. Even into star wars is in this combined with the thing you were talking about like ephemeral tv broadcasts when you watch the star wars holiday special. I assume you've seen it. I have yeah i have. Thanks dad the star wars holiday special. Is you know star. Wars is biggest movie in the world you know is the biggest media sensation ever and then they're like well. Let's do a tv special but the tv special is just phoned in and you almost get the sense of all of it is oh. It's the animated. The animated short that introduced to the world is fat. Okay this french animation style. Now you're right about at that but i mean like the main part of it like the actors are staring at the floor. They're just waiting for basically a star wars theme variety show exactly <hes> and it's great great fun to watch now for all these great ephemeral qualities and to see the old commercials but that's one of the great things <hes> like even the version you get through rift tracks right. I is it it can it retains the commercials that's part of the joy of but they have to specify which one because like there. There weren't many recordings of available. They never officially distributed feeling. No lucasfilm wasn't like here. Come by the star wars holiday special. You had to get it from a copy made from some version that somebody taped off of t._v. And like minnesota or somewhere and i think there were a few versions in circulation but i don't know if those people thought that like their version they were taping off of t._v. With colloquial commercials they were seeing would be like the would be the version that ends up being on rift tracks. You know decades later people all around the world would be watching and laughing at i was gonna say <hes> star trek the next generation the way that i i saw it was all taped from <unk> michigan television whatever michigan station it was running in every ad break. They had the newscast the local detroit newscast every time so i would you know here whatever was going on on in detroit in the eighties on every time they would cut to commercial <hes> so i guess yeah i definitely developed a love for that early on that's in star wars holiday special to where they've got the throws like teasing the later local news things. What do they keep saying like fighting frizz ease that eleven remember that part. This is the thing about like bad hair hair days or something. They're going to have an expert. Come on well. You know let's let's bring it back to to ephemeral though you have brought a cliff with us. It's almost like this is the tonight show in your guest and so. Would you like to set up this clip for our listeners sure so this is professor of english and material culture studies at the the university of delaware. I introduced her earlier sarah wasserman. She's basically i think of her as the ephemera teacher she's writing. A book called the death of things. It's all about ephemera camera. You know i don't i don't want to oversimplify her thesis but the idea of it is that telling stories about ephemera telling stories that involve camera does more than just showing you ephemera it helps fill in the gaps and do more work to transport you back to that place or time or whatever thing that you knows. It is lost now <hes> so she in her book i think she writes about like the great gatsby she references that in here and and a book like become ill doctroas world's fair books that piece of fiction specifically shredding my fiction coming from an english perspective how works fiction can use fem intertwine them into their stories to help transport you in time. It's base yeah. I think that's enough of a setup. Let's listen ephemera. I think are especially moving because because they seem to have their own life cycle they're made they're born. They enter circulation. They live and then they die. We think of things we think of matter as being the the opposite of mortal we think of it as being enduring we think of it as being stable and kurt and ephemera have this kind of timescale this temporal dimension that makes them seem mortal like us. I think that's part of the reason that authors find them meaningful. They can become proxy stand-ins for humans or nations communities to make that more concrete take an example. The one thousand nine hundred nine new york world's fair was actually built on the valley of ashes as fitzgerald calls it in the great gatsby one hundred fifty five million dollars they transform transform what is basically a dump into this bright shining gleaming future city and everyone goes really everyone in a way that we can't comprehend today. Everyone goes us. Come countless visited by every motive crap every meeting the petition arrive to the mild critic position in and you go and you say this is the world of tomorrow. This is the world is it could be. There are all kinds of problems with the vision that get staged. I mean racial problems. Nationalistic mystic problems colonial issues all sorts of things but in that particular instance people knew that it wouldn't be there. The fair was temporary installation like a twelve hundred acre carnival set up in queens. It was open for two seasons from april to october and closed permanently in nineteen eighteen forty as most of the participating countries sank into another world war that experience knowing that it's going to be gone feels exhilarating learning but melancholic for a lot of people and so the souvenir craze souvenir boom is huge around that fair because people want to take something with them so that when the affairs gone when they're no longer there but also the buildings are gone. They have something to remember it by the paris year and the trial on the two i chronic buildings and they get put on everything seven hundred pylon rises above all else and the hillock line that leads the perez the limit democracy crop way to the future. One of my favorite souvenirs is after you came out of futurama which was general motors vision sort of model the city of the future you would get a little button that says i have seen the future national youth to rama that project you into nineteen sixty the highways number resign show. You know that you have this item this object. That's going to commemorate this event. It almost feels like shoring up against that feeling of mortality. Susan stewart talks about the souvenir as an object that you need when an event is no longer repeatable so if you go to your arianna 'grande concert sir you want the ticket stub because you're probably not going to go to another arianna ground show. You're certainly not gonna go to the one in two thousand nine hundred and philadelphia and so you need an object because it's not dont repeatable. Many ephemera are doing that work. There kind of saying i was there. I saw this thing it's gone now but i save save it and that allows me to project myself into the future to protect myself into the past to stave off that encounter with death that might be implicitly happening <music> listen to the rest of this episode and the four oh for season of ephemeral now subscribe on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts and learn more at ephemeral dot watch show <music> <music> all right well while this is fresh in everybody's mind. Can you just tell l. listeners where they can find <hes> if merel and <hes> and also what the the home-pages it's ephemeral dot show. If you don't ask ephemeral just google it. It's easy to find. I had someone right me review that was five stars but they told me that could not spell at their head. Google it but i appreciate that we should. They did that extra work but it's not it's not too hard you know to to find and it's all the social media things podcasts available anywhere you can do it on the iheartradio app or apple or stitcher or whatever whatever thing if you go to the website there's like you know some images and some links and a little bit more information but yeah easy to find all the episodes are out now and <hes> <hes> in our future episodes plan has some ideas <hes> kicking around. I'm just gonna go ahead and say yes. We're in work. <hes> works on the second season right now. So we're technically off season right now. We've already released one bonus episode which is the full length interview with our lovely producer matt frederick about that old family recording and lots lots of other things in between now and then and second season and hopefully not all that long took us about eighteen months to do first season but we had a lot to figure out and there's a lot of other stuff going on so hopefully not quite that long but it could be well. I hope not i it's it's a really fantastic show what i've heard of it absolutely adore and they can't wait to finish listening. Oh thank you joe yeah. I mean it's really it's a breath of fresh air compared to a lot of podcasts out there. I mean honestly. I mean there's it's disturbing world. We're living in and there are a lot of shows that that by necessity and sometimes very bravely deal with the serving aspects of of our reality <hes> <hes> but but your show has a you know it's it's such a a more comforting feel to it you know i can. I feel like i'm settling into like a nice warm glass of milk when i listened to them not all rainbows i mean there's some there's some darker aspects of human history and their two yeah but hopefully yeah there. You know it's you can listen to it with your kids like it's not it's not you know dirtier and yeah i listened to the first episode with my son in the car and <hes> and he was digging it you too because he can. He's identifying with this family. I'm listening to a family talk about shoes. Shoes tape is definitely. A hot. Cup of tea is going man. I i love that one yeah <hes> before we close out or even consider closing things out though <hes> let's talk about william castle because because joe we were talking about this a little before the podcast but joe and i did an episode about the tingler i love the tanger and yeah and so i'm just happy to have somebody in here. Who is a fan of the film. My parents instilled in me a real love for just creature feature movies and you know specifically like take the work of the wonderful ed wood all kinds of other things and the original mystery science three thousand mystery science theater three thousand and all things like that so yeah tingler what vincent price yeah we have vincent price <hes> have directed by william castle and just a just a really wonderful four wonderful film in its own right. You know i mean just has such a weird premise and then the the gimmick the william castle gimmick of the vibrating <hes> <hes> theater seats yeah i would have loved to have. I don't think you know short of something like three. I don't know that i've ever really been to a movie movie. A theatrical release that had a gimmick as part of it yeah <hes> hokey mom. They gave away cards. I went into the pokey mahmoud when that came out. Oh really cards. There's certainly listen giveaway things that i went to specifically as a kid you know but but that's not something we're a forty elementary. Some sort of thing that happened happened in the theater yeah i. I don't think i've ever gotten to experience that with the theatrical release what was it the scream films postulated was that the the new gimmick in movie theaters would be releasing an actual murderer into the movie theater movie. There's so many things we could have done with different feels like titanic. We could have missed it. The audience with salt water during the final scenes like nice cold saltwater that would have been interesting now have seen rocky horror. Oh atlanta plaza is and they do. You know there's there's. There's a lot of fun shenanigans that take place. That's pretty good. That's that isn't in it. I have i love rocky are and <hes> you know for a number of reasons and and i'm i'm perfectly happy to watch it again and again just straight up without any theatrical shenanigans like that is kind of like the the pre mystery science theater three two thousand riffing tradition right there and and it continues to be like this this cool kind of <hes> counterculture experience variance for the movie going experience that people can partake especially younger people <hes> so i yeah i'm glad that it atlanta's a place where one can still find that. I think folks like william castle. I think he was aware of this sort of the crowd that he was going for the sort assertive work he was doing but also i feel exuberance from him in in the way that he works you know like we're we are pushing a medium forward like we're trying weird things and in the in the effort of like driving ticket sales right well one thing i will say about the tingler is that it is <hes>. It is not a dull movie. I mean it is fun and full of energy. I mean he he was somebody who remembered word. That movies are supposed to be fun. There are a lot of people making movies that obviously not all movies are supposed to be funds a movies very serious. They ask challenging questions and all all that but i see travelers all the time for movies that just do not look at your monster movies. Generally monster movies is supposed to be right <hes> and in he remember that i think he was aware of that. Even you know even schlocky or directors roger cormon. I think was aware than monster. Movies are supposed to be fun primarily early <hes> so you know he could make attack of the crab monsters in it's like sixty two minutes long or whatever and it's kind of a brisk pace and has got some googly eyed creature sure is and it doesn't get bogged down and <hes> you know bat depressing bad feelings like so many horror movies these days yeah yeah i mean i'm and i'm seriously being turned off. I think i'm it's like every i keep seeing trailers for. Things and i'm just like that. Just doesn't maybe it's just me but what about mandy mandy needed the mandy. I enjoyed even though it's a revenge film. Revenge films aren't really my my my my go-to franchise so funny. It was such a goofy movie yeah it'd be n._b._a. Full i mean i i loved the i love panaceas style and cinematography love the music and ultimately i love that almost as much as i love beyond the black rainbow which is a pull up as one of my favorites or something like stranger thanks. That's a monster movie. That's master. I damn sure movie yeah but there's also extremely fun. Yeah and i think that's one of the the the appeals of <hes> the movie that came out of the first half of stephen king's kings <hes> novel is that yes it was terrifying and you had all these terrifying pennywise moments and pennywise was fabulously brought to life but yet it found ways to have fun with the <hes> the children in in in the in the in the in the movie like the characters were brought alive in such a <hes> <hes> believable way. There was a spielberg in emotionality to it. Yeah yeah totally yeah. Is the child's play thing out yet. <hes> uh play too because that's just that's a ten point one for me like i watched child's play over it. I think probably t._v. Like the t._v. edited broadcast. It's definitely saw all of those moves all the way at least up to bride of that's the one with jennifer tilly bred durham. Keep doing the voice. I don't think he's in the new one like all the others that would be my main thing as if brad door not in it than what what's the point. It's but it's the same folks that did the it really wasn't okay. Yeah it reboot okay well then. Maybe i should give it a shot. I dunno i. It's one of the like where i i not all that. Many things like reboots. I feel compelled to see too but for whatever child's plays one of those was like yeah whatever like i guess maybe because the first one wasn't like that amazing. Maybe it was it's been. It's got the mom from seventh heaven it. I think you're wrong. The only thing that i feel also compelled to say about <hes> <hes> the tingler before we wrap it up is vincent price's ability to say ludicrous short lines with just poise and and just really sell it. You know we'll know that's one of the best things about the tingler actually is the frequency with which character say the words the take in so benson prices just constantly saying things like what do we know about the tings and their their counting off their knowledge. We've discovered that there is tingler inside. Everyone got it. One of the things that amazes me is that it just hasn't it hasn't been remade and i've never read any discussion of anyone even plotting plotting to remake it a rebooted or what have you despite the fact that the william castle film immediately preceding it <hes> the house on haunted hill was of course remade do do i thought it really fun a haunted house movie and in the film immediately after it thirteen ghosts was also made into a film which was solid the movie as well and it it was fun. It was a fun monster movie really multi suffer from from that sort of early mtv music video five two but it's been a long time and i remember a rajouri review of the thirteen ghosts remake just commenting. He says i opened with like this is certainly one of the loudest foreseen had had some jarring cinematography in it for sure but it also also had f murray abraham though is out <hes> man i could see a remake of the tingler at could go either way you could get it in the hands ends as somebody who's a real lover. Who's got the joy and all that i it could also be a joyless c._g._i. Slog with computer animated worms. I think if you like leaned in to the more psychedelic aspects of the peace i think you could make it work because as we discussed in <hes> in our episode like it is allegedly <hes> the earliest mention of l._s._d. In a major motion picture <hes> and and i think that there are there aspects of it's really whack a doodle plot that are that are reflected by that. Who could you recast for the vincent price role who what about jeremy irons too dry to the dry <hes> richard jenkins yeah yeah he's great and everything yeah jenkins's saw ian mckellen. He's probably too old china deaf. I know i know but this could be coming back. Bring it back around. You know i i have. I'm a little bit tired of johnny. Depp right what he's great in is ed wood. Yes he is fantastic in that that was johnny johnny depp and tim burton both in their in their where they were just unstoppable yeah one thousand nine hundred four. I think something around that what happened to those guys i. I don't think i could watch gotcha. Tim burton movie now but like edwards one of the best movies ever made. I love it. I don't i don't know i don't know why that's sort of seems to be the the story you see over and over and media and were specifically in hollywood but they do seem to have past their prime but i don't know i mean and johnny depp. He's like in his forties way but but then again we're asking the questions like how could somebody lose their creative zeal and or their actual soul all in hollywood hollywood is known for consuming these two quantities sometimes they look at rapid speed right from the very beginning to right from the very beginning of hollywood. Yeah yeah ed would never lost no. That's not true that would true. He did kind of lose it in the jank himself to dan yeah. There's there's like bride. The bride of the energy bride of the monster has lashed bride of the atom bright of the it changed names a couple of times. I think exactly that movies got just fantastic. It's rush got logo and it's got <hes> <hes> the the whipping and oh great bela lugosi great bill. Go see a and <hes> and even you know plan nine bill. Go see wasn't really in it but it was his last film well. He's in a couple of shots. I guess yeah or one shot. Maybe it's it's a few i just watched the whole movie and it is a few. It's maybe three but that's still got great energy. I think later on and woodwind onto he started making candlelight southern orrin porno movies. There's there's sort of connection between <hes> one of the reasons that tim burton cited for wanting to do the edward movie was his relationship with vincent price timber because you know he's big phantom vince braces or hands as a kid and <hes> and then vincent price ended up working on like his first short i think could they worked together twice. I believe and similar to the way similar relationship that ed wood had with bela lugosi. Oh see what's what's the next one with the next one in that continuum. That's how you play real. Young filmmaker befriends tom mm-hmm atkins. He's like the elder statesman of horror. Tom atkins gets a late career revival. Oh maybe tom atkins can play the <hes> the vincent price role in the tingler remai-. He's more rough and tumble. We need vincent price. Type could recast the the character could become more of a kennel coors stricken down the scientists have aroused dow dour in weight roused our rows rouse dowry in roused dowry hero yeah yeah that would okay yeah. I'm on board for that as long as it gets remade. I'm on board i. I hope that they vibrate the seats in theaters. Yes i hope that makes a comeback. I wanna see more gimmicks like that. At the theater they need to do it that they want me to show up and go through the whole rigmarole to come in and see the film whilst would you yeah well. We'll have giant flat screens at home and everything on demand then again. I wonder maybe what we need are more intermissions intermissions or those specialized intermissions like william castle used one of these where you're supposed to take an intermission right before the climax of the film decide if you've got what it takes and if if you don't you can go and get a refund and leave or there is a werewolf film <hes> the werewolf break yeah. We had the werewolf break where you had to decide. Who's the werewolf. We're going to have a werewolf break so the entire audience audience can collectively discuss it and place bets on who's going to be the werewolf language need more of that. What movie was that. I think i watched it on your suggest. <hes> <hes> his great cast in it <hes> is it the one that takes place at the mansion. Were all the people gather on an island or something yeah charles gray. Hey is in it. <hes> who'd gone to play microsoft homes and played bluefield handsome picture show. They're making seven. Yes oh and also a young <hes>. What's his name that played <hes> dumbledore was in it. Richard harris richard here the other one the main dumbledore oh michael gambon. That's what i'm thinking. Oh yeah. I believe he's in it. As well. We are really far afield didn't know i mean that's pretty ephemeral stuff that you're talking about their human life yeah no. That's that's that's one of the things. I think that makes it so special. I mean you know there's a great matt puts. It really really really nicely in that interview talking about you. Pull that tape recorder out of the closet and you put the tape in you hit. Play on it and you hear the heads heads the tape cassette start spinning and you hear a voice from the grave. Come and say hello to you. We just found my family. We just found a tape recording of my my dad's. Dad's dad passed away. When i was nine months old i had never heard his voice until my aunt jennifer found this tape for the last for the season finale of the ephemeral episode. She found that like two days before the episode came out and we cut it in and i had never heard my grandfather's voice before a starts. I was just like folks. It's a ghost outta the nowhere so i mean yeah the the the fact that you know these whatever they are tape cassettes. Were you know weird. Hold industrial films or all kinds of <hes>. You know get saved for one reason another. It's i think it's about as close as you can get to real time travel. Yeah yeah our people sending you. If emerald yet yes yeah yeah was the best thing you've gotten. What's the best thing i've got you know so much as wrote to me and told me that their parents both worked for the dumont network and <hes> at least one of them was hired by allen dumont the founder of the company himself so that was pretty cool yeah but i mean it's all good i i like it. A lot of people have told me amazing stories about <hes> family tapes of their you know offender that was significant in their family. I think the broader cultural stuff i think is is always good and is is easy to make into big episodes but i'm really fascinated by by the sort of individual stories that people are like yeah. I mean these kind of like goofy. Fake shows on tape cassette like with my brother when i was a kid <hes> <hes> you know the stuff. That's not professionally made the stuff. That's a little harder to get through and could maybe use some kind of editor to get it through and help you know bring it to life a little bit. That's that's the stuff that i really really excited about okay so it looks like we got wrap up there but <hes> alex. Thanks so much for joining us. Today we are so excited about ephemeral <hes> what i've heard of it is so good and i mean that from the bottom of my heart and <hes> <hes> <hes> i'm so excited for all you listeners out there to go subscribe to ephemeral wherever you get your podcasts. What else should they do. Is that it yeah. I mean that's that's enough enough. I mean you know if if you feel so inclined <hes> writing one of those little review is giving it some stars that stuff actually really does make a big difference on our end our are you know <hes> the powers that be things like that and and like that and say hey. Maybe you should do more of these so if you feel so inclined. I've heard they're good to binge <hes>. I don't you know you can benjamin not been jim. You can listen to him out of order. You could really do whatever you want the trailer i will say a mixed kind of an eleventh episode it's eight minutes long but it is sort of stands on its own as an episode two so <hes> yeah throw their i would recommend playing these episodes on a speaker and recording them with the microphone into an eight track player and then leaving those tapes out in the world for people to find we had some crazy ideas about different front ways to make self destructing tape of the demo and send it to an executive for that sounds safe bomb oops all right well yeah definitely check it out and in the meantime if you want to check out other episodes of stuff to blow your mind had an overstuffed remind dot com. That's the mothership that's we will find them aw and indeed if you want to help out the show as well. If you want to help out invention the other show that joan i put together <hes> just make sure that you rate interview those shows wherever and whenever every you have the opportunity to do so huge thanks to our producers seth nicholas johnson and maya coal if you'd like to get in touch with us directly with feedback on this episode or any other suggested suggested topic for the future just sale you can email us at contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com stuff to blow your mind is a production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts from iheartradio. Is the iheartradio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows home. Hey everybody we love a good cooking. Show around here now that there's so many wonderful culinary podcasts to turn to as well and the latest is food three we sixty with mark murphy he's celebrity chef and restaurant tour and he's been cooking. Some of the world's most esteemed kitchens for over thirty years season one will the eight episodes topics include in no special order flavor the art of cookbook and recipe writing ice cream coffee me news in and outs of opening a restaurant pizza and breakfast so tune into food three sixty a brand new podcast that airs every friday listening subscribe at apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Back on the road

Monocle 24: The Urbanist

31:14 min | 6 months ago

Back on the road

"You're listening to the. Monocle twenty four in association with Switzerland. Tourism. Switzerland tourism is the proud partner of the urbanized monocle twenty four when you're traveling now or planning ahead, look to Switzerland to find cities that are a buzz with life and never far from the refreshing com of nature. Architecture great, food and rich culture. Just some of the reasons why did he break can make the perfect weekend? But who says all of that can't come with a hearty side of relaxation and natural wonder to. Start Your journey on my Switzerland Dot Com. Hello and welcome to Monaco twenty fours the urban est, the show, all of our cities we live in amount you talk coming up on today's program. I think there's a lot of merit in doing on a trial and temporary vices subtle told supposed going would. I. Sat was more frequently across the virus, but maybe plus other cities around the ball after a moment of immense adjustment in acid is what have we learned about how people get around and what we can do to safeguard a healthier friendlier, a more efficient transportation network. On today's episode, we analyzed the data and forecasts from trends for the future of asset streetscape cycles to buses and trains. One thing is certain. There are definitely lessons to be learned here. So join us as we explore the transportation takeaways and ever changing cityscape right here on the urban est with me hundred. Welcome to this week's episode. What have you noticed about your cities roads foot? Cycle ways and transit stations over the past few months. Perhaps you've seen more bikes, filling up the roads scientists calling out for more and better psychopaths, Patsy of notice cars flying by at ever increasing speeds. Now that many of those annoying street stuffing commuters a stationed at home or perhaps you've been able to breathe a bit deeper a some of the worst offenders when it comes to air pollution have popped up. Indefinitely after the strangest six months in recent memory for us it is it's time to start trying to find a method from the madness to do that though I we need to look at the data Marie. Patino. Is a data journalists for Bloomberg City Lab who specializes in digging up trends from the cold hard numbers, and she joins me on the show now. Murray thank you for coming on the up and I I. Guess you only need to look at your front door to see some of these trends in our cities. But when you analyze this data, what are some of the main patterns beginning see come through? What we've seen during the pandemic is definitely a as very sharp drop in all kinds of mobility during lockdowns. This goes firm traffic. This goes for walking and this goes for driving and this was very global trend, and now as time goes on and CD's are starting to reopen a little bit we've seen. Driving for rebalancing but not public transit yet. So this is on a very micro in very general level. But then if you look a little bit more in depth at the data, we can see that the mean of transportation that has been definitely rebounding. And that people have been taking more interested in has been biking. and. This depends on the cities and their countries you're looking at once again. But for example, when he comes to bike share and Beijing where the. Pretty, earlier, on the three biggest banks share system of the city saw one, hundred, fifty percent increase. In May, according to data we got from the IT DP and even consumers are buying themselves thorough in bike and we got data from a research market group called the NPD group that has analyzed bike sales. Probably doubling from their numbers in twenty nineteen. So this is pretty widespread. Until you beginning to see those trends in Europe or in the US of the American cities for example, have seen an uptick in cycling because many big US cities not she that friendly for cycling or have been slaughtered and the kinds of citizens you need to get people cycling New York has done a better job but you saying an optic that even when you don't have pop soul the infrastructure, the small European city, for example have. Well, this number that I gave you were actually US numbers. So yeah, definitely there has been an uptick but then when he comes to the infrastructure that is put forward by cities. I think it really depends on news city by city basis with seen programs in your city. For example, that has been trying to give back straight space to cyclists pedestrians they have a program called the Open Street program that has been basically closing about a hundred miles of roads to behind goals between eight am PM, and of course, this program is in new. I'm not saying that it's so hundred percent respected everywhere because these are nypd barriers and some people just flip them up and then. Put their cars in. But A. This has become a more. Permanent public policy worldwide. But once again, it depends on the city. Is Permanent public policy cities of don't strive to get more of a cycling relieves pressure in good times and public transport, and it's good for public health. The measures coming into, they seem to be temporary or people making proper longtime commitments with finance and infrastructure to permanently change cities. I'd say that once again, it really depends on the city but there have been. ceremony of them like bogus aw for example, or Milan and Paris that have made pretty clear that they wonder changes to permanent. But would offer example has proposed an additional semi six kilometers on bike lanes. Terrace also has made its main artery, which is the REVEILLE street that passes among other things in front of the Louisville. And closed to most vehicles. So I, think it's still open for buses taxis, but we've seen a huge increase in back circulation on the streets and when it comes to Paris for example, the city recently reelected Mirani Delgado who's been a very prominent voice in making cycling more important part of Paris. So. I think that for this CD's also for London rare there's been a two billion pounds package proposed to audit bike lanes. These inches have were chances of being permanent. and. We saw because of this, the shift to walking and cycling and the lack of traffic on our streets. In recent months the change in air quality lots of cities have made public announcements that. To be more sustainable that they want to become carbon neutral. Did any data come through to you about how isis had become cleaner or what the future of this? I would say that we have definitely seen like very impressive and sudden changes in for example, air quality. As you said in India, for example, the Himalaya was visible which has not had. In quite a while because of the pollution, the immune pollution. But then when he comes to emissions, for example, nitrogen dioxide. sell-by like sixty percents in two thousand, twenty compared to like twenty nineteen over China and Western Europe. So this is a pretty pretty telling number I knew, for example, because of also of Yutian coming. To halt and of utions responsible for I think two percent of human co two emissions according to the. About ten million metric tons less you two were emitted by the industry. So definitely air has become cleaner and I think we saw. Changes. Over a matter of weeks dot personally I wouldn't have imagined over a matter of years. And it's not to say that it was easy because about free billions of people worldwide have to be asked to stay home and Houston had to come to a halt in ability. Overall as well. But when it comes to a sustainable, that is I think it's definitely not and data has also shown that it's definitely not enough to just slow down global warming like the efforts in order to do so neat to be more sustained and needs to help it on a longer time period and. You know this was a very impressive changed, but when it comes to. How likely it is to keep happening once the world opens up again ah than I'm not completely confident. And Tell me another thing which is the off to the period lockdown. We saw these. Powerful demonstrations in many cities around the world. But particularly in the US following the killing of George Floyd and the the return to prominence of the black lives matter movement. Now, one of the things that people have talked about with transport is the. There's more exposure if you're on public transport covid nineteen and in many cities particularly here in Europe, where you have a migrant population that still integrating into society, they often take the toughest jobs are available. So they're the people who are on the buses and on the metro even when other people who have middle-class jobs can navigate stay at home with their kids and be safe. So greater exposure for these communities. What's going to happen? Around the planning and access to public transport, you think there will be a change in how we offer people in maybe migrant communities or neighborhoods where you have a greater density of working class people often of color do think that we will see any changes. And really not completely sure about that breaking at least we definitely saw what the effect of that was during the domestic and I'm not sure the impact. This is going to have one public policy and on public transportation designer but Yeah definitely we are. No is MTA data. So that's through transport authority in your city and we saw there were huge disparities in in the way that public transportation changed during the pandemic so. For example, there was an across the board a huge drop in subway ridership because I think it's like ninety one percent nice across the whole city. But transportation while ridership dropped way more in Manhattan, which is overly white and enrich borough and richest boiled the city, and then they dropped way less among comedian colors in the Bronx. Brooklyn. And the result of that is that these people who have to take the subway are most of the time minority groups. Because as you said, they are the one score mostly part of US central workforce, and this had really huge consequences because people are in the US three point five times more likely to die than their white counterparts. But when comes to an actual change to public policies in transportation design on of really not sure. How this is gonNA happen a Murray. A final question we've talked about the positives know an awareness even there of the issues as a starting point but more people cycling sense that public will have to be made more safe and we'll bounce back. One of the interesting things is you know the? Some such a champion, the being a call city for the short term at least a lot of people won't get in the car to drive around. Again. Did any interesting data come up about call usage during pandemic and subsequently? Definitely well, as I said earlier, what we noticed just across the cloud is a decrease in all kinds of mobility's during longer downs. But then who spend mkx, what we've been seeing thought more people in some areas at least and we have data from Shenzhen because indeterminate of the pandemic, they were earlier than the most European American cities and on a mid June weekday morning rush-hour their congestion index in Chanson increased by eighteen percent compared to twenty nineteen data, which is a a pretty significant increase. Another interesting phenomenon we witnessed during the pandemic that. Personally. I hadn't really foreseen as that in some cities in the US mostly because that's where we got do from there was actually a spikes in traffic fatalities because drivers average speed on the road increased just because they were less cars on on the road. And that's definitely not a global phenomenon but that is something that we've witnessed. Marie Patino data journalists for Bloomberg City Lab. Thank you for joining us. Up Next we look at some of the ways our home city of London is looking to improve is post pandemic transit offerings. This is the honest. As we've just heard the transportation sector around the globe looks set for a shakeup and perhaps nowhere more. So than here in London. That's been battling for years with how to reduce private vehicle use and make the streets safer for sustainable modes of transport. Transport for London the government body responsible for the network here in Grace London reese announced that the house in which bus lanes operate a set expanded to accommodate for heavier usage or off peak times while because we'll just begun on one of the city's major thoroughfares ambitious gate with the aim of transforming it into a less intimidating place for walkers and cyclists. Alex Williams is the director of city planning and Transport for London and he joined this shows USA. A Rebecca earlier is began by explaining the situation in the city as it stands and some detail on some of the recent changes that have been onto way. What's happening laws that is We've seen a huge reduction in traveling Normally, we get about twenty seven buddy chips died in London annette the hawks of the dynamic we will done to unharmful. Gregory. The about loop at the city's increasing together for locked overlays but because some we have is the. More traveling by car and probably a coke, the news by public transport who inside Clegg on what we're very concerned about as we don't want this to be car lead for cover. So the two schemes we're looking at the bus things to change the hours of operation from just a peak traffic hours to twenty four hours is about providing more spice the buses to operate reliably unofficially on the Bishopsgate, about development is back com flagships games in central, London in the corporation of London to China's that straight. So you can't use as through regular General Lake Music fuel shoveling through on a soul soccer woking, but is Nokia. Of. Ecuador Sepulchre those games about prioritizing what we call sustainable modes, public transport walking cycling. Join to make sure that we don't have a call recovery. These seem at its course about providing a safer space, isn't it for people to move around the city? It's interesting what you mentioned there about you know how more people are now using the car in some stages, and of course, this is trying to mitigate that there's also according to the press release on this that there's been this trend to get a better way of the peak hour travel on buses. Well, why do you think has happened? You are was a trend in terms of less acre you said what's happened is. On a bus network with social distancing in place of that code, one meter plus the capacity of a double decker bus would uses from around just onto ninety two around the. So, the capacity, even if we're running every boss is much lower than it was pre pandemic on. Therefore our advice to Londoners is you can of Chun's and you can use it safely as long as you are covering. The capable distance mother messages but in order to keep distance from of us, just think about a tons of you'll use of the charter full unavoidable zero tolerance. So give you an example when non essential retail opened in mid June. We wrote to the big business district. Represented rates, hunters and said, can you schiff you'll stop time and finish time so that you stop by tough on. A and you finish lighter around seven pm on that was precisely to encourage dust off and so that visitors to access shops at busy towards. So what was saying is more people using it'll take. Advice. I'm curious they're in the same way. The pandemic has changed people's behavior and how the US transport and transit systems across the city. It is curious particularly initiative around Bishopsgate and trying to get more people to prioritize walking and cycling. Do you think it is through programs like that through initiatives like that that you also change people's behavior for the better. In this case, you're absolutely and I think that what's happening in London is other cities also looking at. Paris Brussels Banana on another thing old Ruth Amal concerned about call recovery because big cities cannot survive and prosper if they out too much traffic at Chris Gridlock, Mike John. Saif crisis whole kind of ED quantity problems as well and if you think about cove, it covert is a respite to today's of money wise and therefore it makes even more. That We. Clean up major cities. So these kind of initiatives to twenty four bus lines, the Bishopsgate escape. This Hulkah- London streetscape goal is about prioritizing space for people to walk safely into cycle sightsee until used buses efficiently I guess one of the things that tends to happen also here in London but instead he's around the world is those are great especially for those that already tend to cycle and they get to appreciate the more but the key issue is how do You get new cyclists on the road at or people that otherwise instead of walking short commute would drive or take a bright schering APP or something like that. The issue is there isn't it and getting I I'm users or riders to embrace it I completely agree and I think that one of the challenges with getting cyclists. If you look at the demographics upside, it's dominated by men weapons, and so it's not representative of the population of. Nothingness two things that we need to look at to challenge that one is to also increase him ASAKA try provides. Please government on a catches too many impediments recently to accelerate Emma training that is provided a custom done with just toughest online cycle. China chill because if you will while eight Oh tentative side by what you don't want to stop tell this. Namus and then you never walk again you won't be able to feel confident the rides I think suck. China's ready. The other thing we've got to be mindful is the quantity of the measures that we put in to support cyclists. Historically. The provisional BASSAC is just been a white line or dosage watt nine sometimes to say that there's a cycle nine here, and then it comes stops at the most dangerous places to junctions I'm what we need to. When we see what we're doing is actually making show the when we do implement. This that are really kind of high quality of the do ask the right number of segregation of Protection Sinus so that the Novus Saute Salihi less confidence can use actually feel l. size of Lake Chicago continue to do this. I'm curious then. So the same way to pandemic has changed people's behavior which has then led to a lot of this initiatives. I'm curious to know is this work on something that was already kind of in the works are these initiatives or day that direct response to the behavior changes we've seen throughout the year and as we were just discussing as a way to ensure this keeps going yeah. I'm just curious to know if this. is coming up now or is this an illustration of something that was already in the works? It's a bit of both I in the sense of quite a few of suck aligns with putting in well planned, we will listen to deliver them with accelerated delivery, but I think there's also a lot of activity. All of the bars at has completed you on. It's kind of schemes up they were considering before all considered before but never. Really Round two funding trialing. The other thing that's very different about this program. Usually when you implement soft Lionel Alot traffic neighbor trying to stop three traffic it's a long process, insensitive Traffic Maudlin consultation, and then you put a aid. This is a very different way of work because of the urgency of apologetic, we're doing it the other way round in moneywise we're putting aid on a temporary basis when monitoring. Then, there will be consultation. As to whether the scheme should be my puppets. So it's a very different doing it. So it's a trialing system ready just say let's put these measures that see if they were if they worked but stay. Dump well, we'll take him out but I think that's one of the benefits of series of temperature changes. Siamese. Bishopsgate scheme just hope. Is going in will monitor who say On at the moment we think it probably will work and it will open because central London. If it doesn't, it cools a cone series of substantial problems elsewhere will modify will take it out. It is interesting how as we were just discussing the past few months have changed people's behavior. But in a way also these temporary measures you know not, of course, only across the fell but we've seen pedestrianisation projects in London other cities around the world implementing temporary bike lanes, etc. it does seem that then maybe starting to do things just for few months and seeing how it works. Out and people end up changing their behavior and adopting to it. So they are made permanent might be the way forward then and how to figure out what works for city or doesn't, or is that perhaps a very utopian view that I'm taking here name or a group I'd say there's a little Mary is actually just come trotting things second save reading to see how they were. Because you can put them in an attempt replaces at loan costs on then revert an amendment. I. Think that a lot of in this approach to say, let's just try and say it was because from what you do. If you do the other way round if you do the modeling on the consultation, people speculating about the impacts that not necessarily trust the of the model. And it stole out practice, it becomes very slow whereas when you do as a trial price, you can say, well, we put A. We didn't say the problems that yet you affair for all we did we amended escape. So I think there's a lot of merit in doing things on a trial replaces settlement mutual surprised going forward if I stop was more frequently across the London boroughs but my cities around the world as well. And I guess is finally Alex and I don't put you on the spot but let's imagine you could change transit in London. However, you'd like which city comes to mind city mainly where people can meet by bike where they walk a mix of both. As it's an ever expanding chief network. How would it look in your mind? Well, on think something's Elvis within London are really pressing. When tiff L. Coming to distance which samples half of all trips in London were by private car Unharmful by public transport inside they were now around just over a third about private costs will be pushed that down substantially more and more people are cycling. Wokingham using public transport. I think what will put say has how London develops it is the within central London you know the dominant might of transport she foot people walking on teens in public transport on no call us is actually buried love and I think what you'll see in a city not under nothing off such as many cities is. That kind of dominance of will be sustainable most would expand out from the center to go tools in an under mighty now, the time tools out something. So I think we got in central London will become a big APOSTOL London time. Alex Williams director of City Planning, TEFA LA in conversation with Connoisseur Abella. Getting. Writers back onto public transport in a safe manner is clearly being encouraged across the board and as Londoners who've stopped commuting into work in recent months slowly get back into business. The city's recognizable two, hundred, thirty, three open top sightseeing buses are also among those rejoining the fray. In lieu of their usual hop on hop off routes, the buses, which normally ferry visitors around the capsule being redeployed by snap and on-demand transit service to provide even more ways for people to maintain physical distancing on getting to work. The plan makes clever use of private transport options that currently idling and as a model other cities might consider rolling out for themselves for more details than how the platform works. We turn to our very own transit enthusiast. Nick. MINNIE's take it away, Nick. People have been a little wary in recent months of writing public transport and it might be justified spices that are Poli ventilated with people packed in close proximity do seem to pose a higher risk of infection during the pandemic although studies in Japan and France have showed that buses and trains can still be Saif. No clusters of coronavirus have developed on their public transit systems regardless it's Meant that many people have opted for the Buck Oka- for their commute instead. So how to entice people back we'll transit companies have kept capacity added additional carriages and even painted markings on vehicle floors to encourage appropriate physical distancing. But one company in the UK might have a more exciting solution. Snap the on demand mobility startup has partnered with UK Open, top sightseeing bus company, the original. Tour to put their two, hundred, thirty, three vehicles and drivers back to work. Yes. Riding on the open top floor of these often tackle repainted double decker tourist buses might soon be your Safeway back to the office. A sentiment backed up by public health experts who have said that riding in an open air vehicle can be safer than an enclosed one if successfully rolled out it will. Continue the trend of outdoor living and socializing that is characterized the pandemic. So how exactly does it work? Well, with snap people registered at home in wick destinations and desired departure and arrival times myron APP mapping their own personal commute. When twenty other people have also map to similar route snap arranges for an open top bus to charter, picking up and dropping off people their own personalized. The that will allow people to pay for their fair reserve. Their own sanitized say that no one will have sat in before them and registered details contact tracing by capping it at twenty passengers. Only a quarter of the bus would be filled a number that makes it possible for each person on the bus on the deck whilst maintaining a physical distance snap expects prices associated with carrying capacity to be competitive with the normal commute. Cost about three pounds thirty, roughly three euro sixty to get from the Middle Ring of neighborhoods to London Center for proof of concept, snap trial to route from Waltham stow to the city last week it proved successful and enjoyable as more people register for the APP and demand is able to be properly gauged those roots which show the most demand will run more frequently. For the UK the timing of this trial seems particularly pertinent from August one. The government will stop advising against all but essential journeys on public transport but this comes at a time when seventy percent of London have said that they still anxious about a return to the tube. Concept proved successful. It can help restore some confidence. It might also proved to be a viable option for the CDs who the inflates have open air tourist buses sitting idle for the bus companies who want running we'll operations it allows them to get their driver's working again, and it could be a turning point for on demand public transit services in general pandemic benefits. Aside, this would be a great option for those living in Sunnier climes or indeed any city with Balmy season or whether growing up in Perth the sunniest city in Australia a commuting the fresh. Air In the summer months before the biking hater setting, of course would have been an absolute lot. It would be a transit option that lets ride is better connect with the natural environment and enjoy the city's best weather offerings truly grounding transit in a sense of place and if we're concerned about Ryan in the winter months or even intense offering son one for convertible option Mercedes already manufacturers buses. So let's take some inspiration from their iconic SOC hardtop convertible and hardtop double decker convertible to a now I'm on board for both the bus and the convertible. Monaco's Nick Minister. Thank you. That's all for this edition of the urban est today's episode was produced by Rabelo and David Stevens and David. Also edited the show. To play you out of this week's episode his Willie Nelson with on the road again thank you for listening city lovers on the road. To get on the road. And music was my friend. All. Rolled again. Going places that I've ever ban. Thing that I never see. Again

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Alex Williams on Ed Wood

Movie Crush

1:19:54 hr | 1 year ago

Alex Williams on Ed Wood

"Have you ever wondered how far people would actually gopher klondike well that's why on affairs is going undercover in a new snack size series you could watch on a disguise herself how fun is that and go undercover with a hidden camera find out what crazy things real people would do for their favorite ice cream in see the full videos everyone at klondike bar dot com slash videos and share what you would do for klondike bar using hashtag for klondike that's hashtag the number four the letter eight and klondike show then what you do for a bar welcome to movie crush production i heart radio hey everybody welcome to movie crush friday interview addition a this one was recorded just a couple of days ago everyone we had alex williams from me office in an alex is he's great he's such a cool guy he started i think he came by way of knoll brown a which you know if no recommends you then you you gotta be a good person and that was certainly the case of alex he started working here a quite a while ago in those supremely talented from the very beginning endless just doing a great job producing in editing and engineering shows and then one day dropped a little i like to say drops little package on my desk but it was by way of email and he said hey dude i made a pilot of something and that's kind of one of the great things about this job is a you know she's got the wherewithal with all the time you just go make something he got all the stuff and we have the resources me equipment in the answer is usually yes and so he dropped this thing on my desk and he said a just give us a listen it was really great it was one of the best a podcast pilots i'd heard really best podcast episodes i had heard in any genre for a long long time and i brought it to the boss and said hey we should do this and alex ended up doing it in full it's called ephemeral is the name of the show and we talk about that here at the beginning of this episode but it's really really great i can't recommend it enough 'em it's very enjoyable be a second to last episode is coming out this monday following this episode then the final episode will be out the week after that and it'll be ten long and give it a shot listen that pilot i think you might enjoy it a movie crushers so alex picked ed wood a movie i very very much enjoy in that hadn't seen in a while and was a treat go back and watch this beautiful all black and white film from timber and then a johnny depp when they were both firing on all cylinders and we had a good time talking about now so here we go with alex williams on ed what how're you doing i'm fine how are you i'm good how is a well i wanna talk to you about ephemeral first so let's talk about the federal and what a how's how's the how's it going with that how you feeling now that it's over it's over it's over for you like you're done not at all oh you're not no oh i well i wonder if that's gonna come out a two days i wanna see that so so we have on the tenth episode of the final episode of the first season and that's i think july fifteenth it's whatever but you're still working on it oh yeah okay i thought it was all and they can and done that would be nice yeah but now it's a it's in it's it's all it's all there i think it's all in pieces yeah is it maybe i'm gonna go after do some things some help my dad move some things is the saturday so he's got a closet full of vhs tapes that i am gonna look for a few specific things now that's grabber a quarter here where the show yeah how interesting yeah no i mean i guess i should tell everybody i've been recommending the show anyway so hopefully some like you got a lot of good response on the idea a movie crush page like people were into to it but i i should tell the story that you sent just sort of out of the blue eight 'em pilot episode in said hey i've been working on something this is a surprise landed in the inbox inbox and it was one of the best things i had heard in a long long time well thank you so i would like to know more about you're inspiration for the show ephemeral originally cimarron out bring that back into that i i called the wrong thing for like a month yes 'em like where what what interests you about that well you know we we had been kicking around lots of ideas for different things and a tryst and i had specifically just would kind of go out after work in like get a couple of beers and just like throws many ideas and we have you know most of them were probably really bad sometimes working above like that is good and sometimes yeah that's good but a what am i supposed to do something with some we tape specifically a you know i always love sort of free form radio kind of stuff in a things they do really strange mashups have tapes yeah that's not enough first show idea i rarely but the aesthetically i love that kind of stuff and that particular taped it starts off the pilot it starts off the show was the genesis of the whole thing yeah i mean in your own words describe but you're show is a because some people the word ephemeral might even escape commits to its meet berry meaning you look at femoral in a dictionary it says on a something outlasting for very long time yeah something fleeting so the show is it in a nutshell 'em it's a history podcast it talks about it he is it's interesting you that's a great compliment of forgotten moments in history or or moments there were well documented an end in you know illuminating those corners sort of a and telling those stories we try to whenever possible a used be actual media or documentation did exist so if if there's like one recording of something we've tried play it you know yeah there's a you know whatever a one film made about something on one book written about something we try that we tried always capture you know actual yeah us source material from it and sometimes there's nothing we just created from scenario 'cause you could do that right but it's like you call it a history free podcasts and it is but when you say little known history like i don't want people to get the idea that it's you know here's this this little own story from world war two that you might not have learned in school because it's not that i there were maybe there's a few of those but from a pilot so there's a i think it's a hundred and twenty second two so of i reel to reel tape starts it off as a tape collector named bob pose real the real yeah yeah this tape tractor named bob purse 'em who is in the chicago area and since the eighties he's been going around to flea markets yard sales any place you could just fine used audio stuff and specifically focuses on some real taste but there's all kinds of other things to an he goes around in buys things they're like unlabeled that's brave yeah strange labels yeah or just look interesting and he knows on the tape boxing city sees this tape oxy's like wow that tape looks like it's from the early fifties okay which would make it incredibly rare because right home run he specifically interest in home recordings this tape is 'em dishonored and twentysecond is it's just a scene from a family and you know they're talking about the tape recorder there's a there's some kids there's a girl named gail kind of gets handed the microphone just maybe the oldest kid there and just sort of just like reticent a talk at first but then she starts talking and a it's almost doing sort of a little bit like doing a little show into it yeah remind me the kind of things that i would do like with my you know i i wasn't born into this place in the early sixties i was born in nineteen eighty nine like in a micro saturday right tape deck or my parents answering machine right right i record a you know just just thought it was amazing to hear your voice come back at you yeah i think the first time kids play with a tape recorders that's i mean that's sort of the little entry way into what could become a passion for filmmaking or being in a band or any sort of creative outlet like that but like hearing hearing those that hundred and twenty seconds like there's there's this peeking into someone's life quality that really like grabbed me right off the bat like defined a tape it's so personal at a garage sale in the pop it in it's almost like you have a little piece of that person's life all of a sudden and there are lots of tapes like that there's sort of slice of life and there's something special about that one yeah you know bob person like i said i've been doing this for forty years of something and that's one of his like shining examples really when i came to him and i asked him if i could use that he was like i'm so happy you pick that one that there's something there's just a spark in that one yeah it really sort of girls delight i'm getting chills thinking about how did you find that in how did you find him oh just being a great day you're you yeah i mean you know a just the sound jackie man i just you know you you wander around on the internet you find weird corners i'm sure some french turned me onto it right a yeah yeah i mean i remember remember being in a high school and like this is pre a i graduated from high school year you were born so this is pre obviously any kind of internet or any sort of electronic sharing of anything so when things were shared they were dubbed and passed around and a there were viral things but we just obviously that word wasn't used in a viral by way of making copies in distributing them among friends and then it's like all literally could go all over the country whether it's like the jerky boys a you know the jerky boys another time jesus christ they they made a movie at some point but the jerky boys were these prank callers they literally got a movie deal i don't think i saw the movie and i think the movie ended up being some really stupid thing but in high school is one of those things it somehow you got a copy of the jerky boys cassette right and there were these really weird kind of great prank calls and they were legendary or this de original south park and a christmas thing okay yeah that you know it got out in hollywood and it was dubbed end up in dubbed i ended up getting a vhs copy in central new jersey before south park ever air so guys do you finally have it a no no i don't have that original be chess piece of ephemeral as that's what it is to actually have it in your hand well i mean something that survives right ties someone made the decision that they should be there should be preserved right well i'm sure they're plenty of them out there but it's just interesting that things could go viral back then even through a hard work not hard work but you know you didn't have to click something you had record and a dear friend label it and then they would pass it around and that's like this guy did see these only for him or dizzy post these things were others or is it right when he started i mean there was no there is really no sharing either except for in his circle of friends i think he has a number of recor collector friends and things have you gotten him about purse yeah oh yeah so you guys were like pals well i yeah yeah i'd say so a a you know we a i've only ever worked together we don't go out together he but he he heard your show i imagine oh yeah we've done two episodes together so he gave me permission basically carte blanche use whatever you want like send me a link about like the here yeah i don't think he had any idea of like it's this sort of the larger scheme of the whole thing right right a and then a we didn't episode together 'em you've heard that one yeah with the marrow go morlin tae yet a which is a i don't wanna say too much about it but it's a it's a little bit of an epic yeah it unfold over the course of a number of years he found a mysterious unlabeled acetate which is home record it yeah seventy eight a real thick record's yeah yeah a a an and try to figure out who's on it for years and years and years amazing i finally did yeah and it's a happy ending and it's kind of sad it's a great episode but you also kinda branch out it's not like 'em 'cause i wasn't even sure what the show is gonna be after the pilot like i love what i'm hearing like what's next but you branch out and other things you tell the story in one episode of the call you're brothers 'em who a josh and i talked about and stuff you should know at some point oh my gosh i can't believe i didn't look that up sometimes i sort of put horse blinders on when oh i mean i don't matter at yeah it was it was interesting 'em or maybe it was a video we did i don't remember but we covered him at some point it might have been the hoarding episode actually now that i think about it appropriately enough yeah but you know famously in new york city these two brothers others who were hoarders you're in that episode because i am i really you were on charles smith has been is the name someone called the police report is right guy that did that lightning in my i had you know i don't think as in the studio and i had left you guys as instruction yeah and it was like i didn't think he would use that new york but not to new york and i think you gave me some options that were more time with their way over the top i think i did i assumed he would not have used that and i went somewhere in the middle i used it okay oh yeah i'm not one to waste tape but they call your brothers became a these boogie men to kids in new york to which is really interesting outcome did these two guys who were hoard like famous borders and died in this department right then they die in there they did yeah it's very tragic but they became this like for new york kids you know be where like you're gonna become like the collier brothers yeah it's so strange again this like almost like viral moment the gets passed around by word of mouth in now when it's hard sometimes to separate the truth from fiction yeah there is eleven newspapers in new york than a high in the woods and things like that and even you know proper newspapers are always print all the facts quite right right so yeah i think there's really there's one book on the color but again it's my friends led's who is interviewed annapolis oh yeah yeah and a and he did a fantastic job i think trying to cut through the clutter in this is there is the things we now here's the long list of things that will never now right yeah what is your favorite episode when i'm working on now is is is a all kind of personal stuff it's my dad my best friend my wife and matt frederick are a one of a wonderful producer here who's also like a fish share at my wedding oh really oh i didn't know that a that is a great guy to get married to feel very low might get married to get married by anyway you slice it happy to have him yeah i'm very excited about that one but like i said it's in pieces right now they episode that just came out among day it'll be it'll be one day yeah yeah 'em it's called switchboard it's about the first a female soldiers have you es army were switchboard operators yeah it's from a book a an interview is a historian elisabeth cobs who's won the pulitzer prize committee is on the history apartment u s or history abortion you a state department at the pbs documentary she's incredibly plea her resident may yeah is you know a suit but at the end it's a wide reaching story 'cause you do telephone history you start with alexander graham bell and then you do women's suffrage do world war one you do i mean you know a spoiler alert these women came back from world war one end were denied all of the benefits at other soldiers were mhm most of them went to the grave without military terry honors yeah and it wasn't until we did that pursuit efforts if the woman leading the charge morally again one of the switchboard operators they're called helo girls in the world war which is antiquated term now but that's a right the name of the books anyone wants to look it up a you know a women like molly again and a and in colleagues of her petitioning petitioning and positioning all the way up to jimmy carter wow recognition is soldiers in this war and finally got it in the nineteen seventies through from carter a i think they need and i am eastern mccarthy's the best yet they 'em what it was is they got on so there's a lot of red tape involved to there was some late in sexism involved true a yeah anyways is it if it isn't infuriating but it's also beautiful stores got great characters in it i mean it just came right out of history books and came alive alive talking to a two lives with cops so that's that's my favorite but i do sort of like the mall yeah that's a good that's a good movie you wanna help me find that's it if you say there's a documentary on it there's a pbs documentary called the hell of girls to the end of the term the book elizabeth cops is married to i a documentary filmmaker and they made a couple of pbs documentary interesting just seems like a you know a time when they're doing these more a little like hidden figures and more a little known stories from history especially women and there's great footage to like that i had nothing i couldn't use 'cause it's a silent footage yeah there's this amazing footage of these these operators and some of the mike and recognized by name now wow you know from i'm working on it and it's so funny hot you know in just by the trenches in in france connecting call yeah and making i mean she telephone this is the first for a telephone yeah they changed everything i'd be holding the that's the synopsis of the central nervous system army yeah that's amazing we should do a not the steel you're ideas but i think it episode on switchboards would be pretty good oh yeah stuff you should know that's like i've got a little research you can like how they literally were yeah crazy i've got i've got a great book on it really yeah what what do you what do you wanna do next man like is there a season two of this in my head and they note on my computer there sure is really yeah so you've got ideas already oh there's no shortage of i pray so oh yeah yeah it's it's sort of find that sweet spot if like something that's rare enough right also maybe has like if there's like one book written a good yeah and also someone that would be good detoxing books been published recently a or a you know not everything's comes through a book either 'em like talking recor collectors run recor labels yeah a musician like it's a couple of music episode ideas are you collector of ephemeral yourself i am and i wish i was in it like what kind of stuff i am really in the middle of it right now clearing out this where painting room or moving some of setting up a new studio in my studio office in my house so a tapes yeah cds chs i have victorious family 'em my wife a recorded every second of their childhood a really odd vhs yeah interesting thing the more we advance it's like that old nor mcdonald joke about pictures of you're grandfathered you ever hear that one late on me oh i can't remember the exact verbiage but you know he's in june nor mcdonald style he's talking about his grandfather he's like i got like four pictures of my grandfather and then he's talking about nowadays he's like what do you think like are grandkids gonna be like you wanna see i have three hundred and fifty thousand pictures of my grandparents like on my computer and it's just weird to think about 'cause are i mean mine certainly in my parents more so you a little less so as we go through the generations but a there's so little of are passed and now there's increasingly more and more and more and it's strange to think of the future the i dunno if one is better than any other like not no things or is there too much do you need two hundred thousand pictures of yourself one day yeah i mean i don't think it's a straight line right like it's not doesn't just trend upwards 'em one of the things is that i'm just talking to my dad about this he said like i'd ity guy data management guy a that people are crappy managing their data right so yeah for sure you know maybe you have two hundred and fifty thousand photos of your kid but you have a single harddrive harddrive guys one day i know that's or they're all out in the cloud and google goes out of business i know that sounds crazy but you know now i'm with you man like a there's there's something trustworthy about a tape or about obviously need to be able to play it on something but like a physical object you can hold feels sturdy and trustworthy yeah you know there's also something to open a talking to matt and talking my wife and so my friends about this lately when you have this picture of her grandfather with this this tape cassette they've got you know this loss this person has passed away their voice sonnet yeah when you if you physically in her interface with you hold the tape that they had you maybe wind a little bit loose take back into it i remember those days slide and then they play hit the button and you do all of all of the sensory interaction that you have yeah that it prime issue for when when that you know that crispy audio his ears and you know goes in your brain there's a it's it's almost like holding hands you know three curtain a is this the way that elisabeth cop split it you yeah kind of reaching back and grabbing that phantom ceiling on the other side yeah in even like physical things can be fixed like a a taped and break and you can repair it if it's special enough may stutter cassettes and the garbage when they broke but you could mandate oh yeah i mean that's what helped films were added to the states in the state that's that's that's what they literally mean when when they say cutting tape right he would cut with a razor blade interact funny enough when i went to the a n y you this evening and weekend program film school in the mid nineties like we were the last couple of classes to do that stuff and a year later everything i learned was just down the garbage i went to i went to film school here in georgia state and it was in that time it was like two thousand seven when i started college win on everyone's kind of confused about what the formulas gonna be like ryan digital but no everyone's vying for inserting doing like mini detainee dv earlier relevant i've talked to those left a cannon well the big hot shit camera the cannon had the xl one oh yeah yeah sure i felt like the most advanced shit ever when it came out and then and then that was right when to by the time i just you know maybe i saw a lot of the levels of college freshman sophomore junior junior there you got like a junior senior in college with nick cannon specifically start making ts ars they could shoot video yeah and that screwed everybody up to like wait now we have photo cameras there shooting video when you could put new lenses on 'em yeah it was it was it was wild i think it's maybe settled down a little bit more yeah i was out of the loop there for a little bit because i remember when i first saw someone shooting video on a on a dsl are i was like what is that guy doing like he can't he realizes it that's her pictures they broke all the rules is brilliant 'em still i mean they don't necessarily work that well for that but yeah yeah that's a good point 'em i guess this comes out on friday in the last episode will release what a couple of weeks from now so if we're this'll be out on the fifth of july there'll be a new episode on a the following monday and then there'll be one more after that okay so the penultimate episode follows this release exact on day yes all right this is good timing then yeah because i think it's a very enjoyable show it's the kind of thing where a i i like a eight to ten episode thing when it comes to podcast i could really sink my teeth into that over the course of a week if those kind of complete yeah i hope at least i think it will i think so do you feel did you tried is there a larger arc going on well i mean assume the order is very much thought out you know was it did it did change as we went to different things and they they all wanted them altogether standalone but i do think if you listen to even the trailer which is kind of eleventh episode you know like a like a bonus happens yeah it's it's it's an eight minute trailer so it's it's substantial it holds onto i i hope 'em what'd you do the trailer that's about my knee making shows on my answering machine here what my voice sounded like when i was about eight nine years old this year accident change it all by accident is you're acting different than it is now high a i think i don't have much of an accident i'm from a michigan and then i grew up in atlanta so just met metropolitan areas areas okay 'cause i heard in old cassette of myself recently and i had a very southern accents are you are you from the south yeah i'm from here yeah and now i don't have too much of an accident 'em people ripped me for certain things i say but a when i heard this gift set i was like that was me 'cause i didn't work on losing it i guess i dunno it just happened just curious if you have like a a big michigan accents no no i i think i sound pretty much the same likely amount of vocal fry them talking which right now is pretty much the same such a cute little it'll get a coach just a little kid i as i mean i was stupid in you know editor and but i was also that's probably pretty interesting we some things i could tell that kid but you know right a things worked out okay he had to take some bumps and bruises between then and now and now he's one of those things it's about we tape you just i mean it's like time travel yeah i'm i'm thinking about that tape right now i could hear it in my head on back in my dad's office yeah it's the weirdest thing yeah it is interesting these visceral moments in these memories 'em often a and i talked about this before with having a daughter often wonder about what her first memories are 'cause you know it makes sense now that's what parents were so close to their kids excuse you've got three years with some where you remember everything and they don't remember anything so like we've already banked all this love with this girl i never ever she doesn't remember any of it she's not gonna remember any of it let me let me ask you this when you do you do do a lot of documentation if you like pictures i recordings a yeah not obsessively but you know plenty of pictures video when we think about it but i'm not one of those 'em even though i think i intended to like that picture day saying you know and then you could put it together and watch it grow and i did that for like two weeks and i stopped so it's more when the inspiration hits me right which i'm okay with it instead of like i feel like i need to get this stuff it's it's a tough balance i mean it's a it's a it's a burden right the dilemma if it is wendy document in winter not yeah and when did just 'cause it does remove you from the moment a bit absolute when he pulled that fucking phone out i think i think it's it could be incredibly pervasive videotaping limit and did you get her first words when it sort of early early words there anything recorded a shower early words we we got just sort of by happenstance first steps oh on video house i was we were in her room and i was like i just since like she's close so i got the phone out and sure enough man boom how old jose when they take the first steps a well can vary she was in her early walker she walked at ten months but it it's a typically anywhere from there to jeez even eighteen fifteen months sometimes you're like when you see the human the history of human evolution right it's like when they stood up yeah when the thing happen yeah and that sort of true you know once you could come out and give places that's amazing then it's all over but yeah just the it's interesting to think about memories and like what is the first thing she's gonna remember even ones kids do start remembering like what do you remember between the ages of four and seven nothing very vague memory montgomery's of right there yeah if he wrote down a list it would probably be like i dunno dirty things most oh gosh no less so like it takes a while to really bank these memories and in the meantime you're parents were just soaking it all in that's why parents just you know they don't wanna let go the kids like what's the big deal you all over me why he left me so much oh like 'cause i was busy verb warriors were unique shit shit how is your kid for now asking me for verizon wow you and the kids i love kids i have a very self though i have six nieces nephews coming stay at my house in the comics nice with their parents eight people coming in saying in her house so that's one of the reasons that were doing moving stuff trying again is gonna be me editing in one room and victoria painting the room next to it gotcha they don't seem like it would be a good dad i a very much looking forward to i got married and on a you know when i got married october last year so you know you guys get time you're young a show we talk about ed would never seen it now yes sir so before we talk about what actually i take that back i do want to you did a tell folks a little bit about you're you're real favorite movie pick which i did not allow you to oh the point yeah nineteen seventy harry nilsson nielsen i guess you'd say yeah the songwriter i think i didn't do all the research on this but i think i think published it as like a comic first yeah i did a little research to 'cause i was curious and the only reason i talked you out of it like a jerk was a little less obscure like people can actually fine like my inlaws new it well yeah that's that's a good point but you're in lost almost half of the show my motherinlaw listens to femoral she's she's she's not really not really like her phone i'm no she doesn't she doesn't yeah she's like a google phone and i i it doesn't really enjoy using it yeah so i'd be effort she got to the podcast somehow and has multiple episodes of so anyways a really nice the point is one of those movies i caught at some point maybe on tv as a kid it's just really weirded out why is it the animated is anna minutes all sorts of the music of harry nilsson yes and the music has nothing to do with about fifty percent of the time has nothing to do with what's going on on screen yeah it just songs just kind of common take you away and then you come back to the story is definitely a relic from a certain time oh yeah like you just reeks of the seventies so psychedelic man yeah it is supposedly the trickiest kids movie i think of yeah yeah okay well i just wanna throw that in there because i know a people like to hear about obscure sort of a psychedelic movies not in live and die they've hired resist the label obscure for that i you know i guess i mean harry nilsson certain wasn't obscure right a year ride but it wasn't like the disney snow wider anything oh no i don't know it's to produce the animator the the director fred wolf had worked on like puff the magic dragon yeah and it's you know it it is like water colors and the animation and stuff i mean it's a beautiful movie yeah it really is an a you know to put judiciously if you're looking for something sort of psychedelic it's it's certainly a fun one to watch and the music's great i mean the soundtrack i know every i considered a piano right now those that's right for you i bet you play piano i'm not i'm no i'm no harry nilsson but i i dabble interesting i just got a keyboard so we'll see how that goes oh you transitioning 'cause you're a guitarist joe i am i am too am berry a famous in my household for buying musical instruments and not learning the me too so at one point at various points have had a lap pedal steel guitars i've a violent in my closet me to a nother stupid i'm about buy tickets are really saving the money for a like a pedal sealer elapsed elapsed deal okay yeah do you have pedal steel i did wow a by the carter starter which is a good little entry level carter pedal steel and i got to where i could make a couple of the swell in which is like it's i got it because it's my favorite sound in the world it's magic it really meant might be my favorite son in the world is the swell in the band pedals steel guitar yeah and i learn how to make that one sound stopped i would say the same place really hard i haven't harriman oh did you you that's how i feel about their american go like man this is not surprise me at all did you build it oh no oh yeah i know could totally do that until the thurman he probably had no interest in there's lots of there's lots of folks say they could do that i bought it on the versatility of all you guys though 'cause 'em seems like everyone and does a little bit of this a little bit of that in like the talent pool we have been in this company in the engineering in producing department is really pretty staggering i think i i wonder if people have experienced it i've that i've had where it's like i was sort of i have some degree of it's mostly bartending yeah and i had all these things there's interest is in like how did it go together what am i doing and i were in my time and all these projects and then you get summer he like he like here where it's it's almost like a a a creative things tax law where it's like any idea is a good idea yeah and everyone sort of feed off each other's energy and you're like oh all these all these things that i didn't know i was wasting my time on right now come into play sort of they you know me up yeah and you've got this little arsenal yeah at your disposal a otherwise known as you talent but now you're in a job where they're all coming into play and you came in at a great time to because it got really lucky yeah like now you guys are all walking up the ladder in in the network is growing and no one i think more than knoll brown jerry roll into a couple of our old friend i think everyone should just know you just pointed to empty chair as if they're they're dead find it in one chair and an invisible nolan and another sherpur invisible jerry as far as i know i saw i saw recently alive i haven't seen jury that recently but i she's she's at home this week hey movie crushers i wanna talk to you about credit card bills end light stream it credit card bills keeping you up at night because man i used to be in this serious credit card debt and it was no fun bad interest rates in the double digits and there's just no way the love everyone be smart pay off your credit card balances with a credit card consolidation loan from light stream get a fixed rate as low as five point nine five eight pr with auto pay you could save thousands of dollars in interest paying interest is for suckers everyone you could also get alone from anywhere from five grand to a hundred thousand dollars and there are no fees you can even get your money as soon as the day that you apply in movie crushers you wanna save even more you got a special deal coming your way listeners get an additional interest rate discount and the only way to get this discount is to go to light stream dot com slash movie crush that is l i g h t s t r e a m dot com slash movie crush subject to credit approval rate includes point five percent auto pay discount terms and conditions apply in offers are subject to change without notice visit light stream dot com for more information all right so let's get into edward then since i was you're pick what is a written in a by scott alexander and larry caribou ski 'em directed of course by tim burton who will get and it's in britain here in the sec a released in nineteen ninety four when two oscars a four obviously mark martin landau martin landau one also the golden globe very much deserved and then one for herron makeup right again for the character bela lugosi i think yeah in canada everything 'em because what i really notice and i'd seen this movie several times before but watching it last night again a through the studied lens it really like just knocked me out with the craftsmanship that was on display like the costumes grady got calling that would do the costumes is legend in a the cinematography that black and white cinematography is just so gorgeous and the sets and everything it felt like a bit of a love and i think it probably was a bit of a love letter to old school craftsmanship in filmmaking a because the sort of what the movie's about even though it's about the worst filmmaker whoever lipped supposedly right or he has that title at least yeah i think timber and also in probably you know johnny depp in and some others were fans of ed would i'm sure like i'm a fan of ed wood yeah you know it's it's it's a fascinating paradox to make a great movie about a terrible movie or collection of movies like did you see the disaster artist i did yeah like what was that movie but i haven't seen the room using the room i haven't seen the room played at the plaza man which goes well it's funny i was living in elway when the room came out and i would drive through hollywood and see that guy's bill durable russia and i i remember me and my friend scotty we would just be like what the fuck is that who is this guy and we never got around to investigating and just never thought it's one of those you know with the room i feel like someone might disagree with me but you hear so much about then you see and you're like oh that's what it's like right it's pretty small in scope as opposed to something like ed wood yeah which tries to tackle way too much in the movie yeah it is interesting i would the filmmaker not the movie yeah yeah i mean his let's talk about the guy like his ambition ambition i mean it's kind of one of the sweeter parts of this film or dislike undercurrent of this film is how a pure of heart an energetic and enthusiastic in an ended this y'all was like he thought he was making great stuff yeah sydney yeah i think you know i i read it i i learned some new things about the last i also watched it last night and then i'm just read the wikipedia page 'em but it sounds like johnny depp read a bunch of a his old ladders letters and correspondences wrapped ephemeral i bet those right plug and a a and that sort of unbridled optimism yeah i came from that source 'cause there's not really tape all right video of an would being at would right and he doesn't like in the movie i would he johnny depp playing it would plays like the league in the in the movies yeah yeah on reiter implant not planning but englander glenda he plays leading that i don't think that's the case i think there's an actor that played that part okay he lived in glenna glenda yeah that was a a liberty taken by the filmmakers i believe okay is i thought he was in it now i don't think so it gives his whole thing was it was very much by only only writer producer actor and a then director in hollywood just me and orson welles mean or some well yeah which they have the great seen it in who has been sitting off rio's worsen well an easy dumped and i think it's murray maurice lamar stewing but yeah it's pretty poorly up to i don't remember noticing that the first times i saw it last night as like oh well that's totally dub i tell you what i have always hated that part because of the dub it's so bad it doesn't sound like in the same room doesn't but the fact it like in this perfectly executed movie there's something that's so blaring leap badly done in it yeah i think sort of works because of the day you're right that's kind of he kind of had that in his his pocket like if i suck anything up it's in ed wood movie had said this and i just say much let me say tim burton johnny depp at their prime to yeah i mean a this is definitely peak depp 'em it was nice to go back and remember 'cause he's just become such a shit show the person in a career at this point i think it's sad he made so much money towns logos pirates movies that i had friends who worked on those and told me stories about him and he's kinda messed step guy yeah and it it was cool to go back and watch and remember sort of when he was just the best lightning in a bottle man yeah every i mean you just watch him just the things he does his eyebrows you know yeah a little everything when when he's when he's when he's on notice so many little just subtle facial movements and a he's just so inhabits this guy with the ever present that you know false teeth grin on his face it's like heart heart maniacal part enthusiasm and then peak tim burton which let's let's unpack timberg nabet how do you feel about a moment here you're take i grew up with timber and i really liked this movie specifically specifically to but i grew up with the number for christmas franken weenie you know he's made venture beetlejuice right a advertiser hand edward scissorhands such a good movie all of 'em and i mean you know for years anytime when came out sleepy hollow a a a caution smith so many 'em weld any well i might as well tell you i i started losing interest in tim burton movies around the time of sleepy hollow i think i i would agree with you i guess he did mars attacks which might attack never played really worked for me never worked for me and i don't know why it has so many good elements but it's i know why it should have yeah a d a the movie that everyone loves it i don't is big fish now i i i can't agree with you on that one i i've i've seen at least three times and i do people love big fish it gets pulled my heartstrings man i'm i'm into it i'm i'm definitely the outlier hire a i enjoyed the batman movies so like i used to be all team britain but i think he just in my opinion he sort of lost his way 'em in everything feels sort of the same now whether it's allison wonderland or 'em i feel sort of like he's or the the the the broadway show we did a sweeney todd sweeney todd i dunno everything feels derivative of himself for me to find the source material and that has never really been my thing right i like all the element like i like all things about it but then i actually hear the songs i hear the play and i'm like this isn't really for me i don't it doesn't do anything for me i'm looking up his films now because i wanna look at the list of films well 'cause i'm kind of curious a dumbo really he's what he's doing dumbbell he did dumbo came out earlier this year that's how i charlie in the chocolate factory that feeling when i was thinking yeah on a big fan i already shadows he did you see that i didn't i think he's has kind of his style has become kind of care captured by and south if that makes sense yeah it's like oh we'll just do it like big budget special effects movie with like the gothi element that's the tim burton recipe i know is i want it you know sometimes when that happens i i think that a oh well and then they got too much money in started to big budgets but like you always had pretty big budgets yeah i mean not always but you know his first movies were cheap yeah now he's making on plane and apes that was a weird one and it's it's gotten very much in the reboot territory to a you know he pretty much almost exclusively seems to do reboots i'm trying i haven't seen any of these last few once yeah but i don't wanna just sit here and back on tim burton because ed wood is peach tim burton and i think it's the one that a lot of people haven't seen the have seen all those other early timber movies yeah i think this one is a little lesser known to for some reason still i think black and white films just i know why executives fight against it i'm all for it when you learn happened lending because we wanna do it in black yeah and they put in turnaround in chain studio yeah yeah like that's how much they're against it because i think it really does ultimately hurt the box office people think it's like an artsy moving they won't go there is a joke in this movie there's a psych egg jack i won't do it but they only works because it's in black and white where there were a there's an actress it brings to dress as a witness director that's like which one looks better and they bring it to the camera guy luna the greenland and he's like i'm colorblind camry our first caller 'cause that's the kind of crews had working on though yeah well there's so many funny lines in this movie 'em and i'll go through them as we kind of go through the movie but the cast is amazing martin landau of course like we said is bella show steeler show steeler 'em as his bill murray as funny breckenridge jake is so weird weird oh god he is so great and i and i didn't know much about i looked up a lot of these the real people afterward and did a little research and i did know a bunny breckenridge was a a he would say well heeled wealthy socialite in came game from one of his grandparents who is the vice president of the united states in his other grandfather and his other grandfather founded the wells fargo bank wow so he like from every angle he was born into to like big big money like let's in paris and lives all you know all over there anywhere he wanted the lives of these big parties and he met up with ed wood in a became one of his you know that's another great part of this movie is this the sort of group of weirdos that he's symbols it really is a movie about yeah outsiders yeah back each other up enemy is always nice to each other anything but now they all are click because they had anyone else they've got ed in everyone rallies behind him in such a like you feel yourself in this movie like yeah man everyone get behind him and you find yourself forgetting that he's such a bad filmmaker and that sort of one of the little magic tricks of this movie i think absolutely you know at the end when they're making plan nine then he comes back after these words and wells meeting in the music swells and let's finish this picture and it was like yes they're gonna do it it's like wait a minute plan nine is a masterpiece by nine of the math well it's like you know what i mean i mean a masterpiece it was voted is like the worst film of all time that's how it made its name i assumed movies so anytime that that's the kind of movie in my family that is like everyone quotes it all the time play nine plan nine would to medical family you know they they grew up watching my parents i like mystery science theater three thousand you write a they the love of b movies and bad movies civically ed wood is deeply ingrained reigned in may how old is your dad a nineteen sixty two sport okay so he's nine years older than me i'm just trying to gauge 'cause if you were like easier age dude in that could have happened people have kids when they're eighteen you sure 'em i would i would let you off the hook though for having a young father who i wouldn't know what to do if i was talking about i'm just trying to imagine if you were my son would not be weird it's possible it will be weird defined out suddenly if we had grown up together where you calling me in here for furniture exactly guess what a movie is getting all mallory on i know i know a bill murray is it in a sarah jessica parker is great she's in this role she's i mean she's a she's an asshole yeah but she's really good in it now so good and i also found out that in real life itchy got kind of upset when the movie came out because she's like i left at because of his alcoholism which killed him he said which was not portrayed in the movie 'cause i mean that's a big bummer the now that's not what this movie was supposed to be is that would have sucked if he showed him in the throes of alcoholism and that's why he really lost his wife yeah oh good dramatic liberty 'em but yeah they they kind of made her more of a caricature then she really was yeah and apparently she went on to be a songwriter yes sir a very a successful songwriter yeah route from some elvis yeah that's all i need to know a who else is patricia arquette in a kind of a smaller part but she's the greatest the the second girlfriend and she actually the one then wife yeah right right on her in in real life i do you remember the name of a i remember her name kathy a would academy would yeah she took his name yeah they went and basically like kind of walls up a an apartment in you know in allies somewhere and he drank himself to death with the end of his life yeah they were both i think ended up being really a bad alcoholics i think she out lifting by number of years if i remember correctly yeah she did i think they were you know very sad end is a story though in real life yeah yeah and of course you're not gonna show it in this film anyways it the film the film i think a i've i've i've read the timber and try to incorporate some ed wood optimism into it and let it sort of colored through that lens oh yeah and so that's it's it's joyce film i mean annually is everything's going wrong all the time and it's just like all right we keep guy yeah i love it when he gets that that the first while the first very bad review at the beginning and he's like well look they commented on the costumes i don't even give that or when he's on the phone trying to raise money and they talked about what dog shit a winner glenda was his well my next one will be better yeah it is he earned that review by the costumes in the same but it was praised for three lives right struck 'em the cross dressing thing is introduced pretty early in the movie and that's obviously from his real life or a gora look back and then gora would not one of his films or is that something else i think it was a but he has that first interview with a guy in again with the mid atlantic accident you i'm all man i even fund ww to a he disliked where women's close yeah it's really interesting in one woman accepts that one well apparently it was cooked up the movie but a one woman does not end he baked into his career to 'cause glenna glenda have you ever seen glenna glenda now so it looks weird it is so much weirder we're really and they could possibly it's a star movie and there's these shots bela lugosi superimposed stocks british of buffalo yeah they show that in ed wood and he's going and then it's a story about yeah a man coming out about his cross dressing to his girlfriend and then she does that scene where she takes offer angora sweater right and gives it to him over to him it's in there which is you know if i don't know if this is the original covering up like if you look up lender going now that you mentioned you will see right yeah i think i've seen that before that still image and they recruited i mean the the rick creations in this movie a far right on point for what they are in in the real movie in in actual at would fail especially if you're like a fan of plan nine began to see that stuff being shot is really just so cool and just shoppers shot exactly what it looks oh yeah in georgie animals steel is like the spitting image of tore johnson it's uncanny it really is like they did a good good job with the casting all the way around i think a lisa marie is empire a looks a lot like her yes also uncanny yeah bad but a i think that really added to the film it if you're a fan of original material how could you not be seated why don't you artist just gives you haven't watched the lighting those flying saucers on fire dangling in front of a poll and then every time you see his face and he's just like he could barely contain himself he's so excited to be making movies every time they're doing it almost they're doing a scene they'll cut back to the sunny a melting the word yet saying johnny depp doing and it's it's that's one of my favorite bits in the movie goes china playing it would sort of on the sidelines playing the character is the he's written right right and watching him filter all of that man is a is a masterpiece yeah so good 'em bela lugosi has some great lines to 'em his love of a bell is just their friendship is so endearing and so special i think i because he was in it you know all that is true to he's in a very bad way later in his career in addicted morphine and methadone and there were some differences he got remarried 'em his son was involved in his life so he wasn't quite as alone right as he is the real somebody hardly a good father whose son has has nothing but great things i'll say on looks just like him out also apparently never say curse words yeah i saw that too because i mean some of the best stuff in this movie is bella i mean that's one of the first things he says is now no one gives to fox for ben is when someone brings up boris karloff oh god yeah so i re a in my family there's a couple of a bail abella lines that we would always say it's like the one where he's doing this yeah yeah i would not pay like you do that you'll have to be double jointed i'm hungry or the one where he calls him over 'cause he's he's owed either he's yeah he's in that vein is heavy man oh there's there's a lot of this is the movie that my mom had to like explain to me what what's going on like this is oh i'm sure yeah a little kid when i first saw but he goes over he's you know a bell is overdose through or in a bad way because of some some drugs and calls eddie over an any like it must've taken to the hospital not which is the couch and brings in the couches now is there anything on gift for you and palace like make me some goulash yeah i don't know how they come out and said that you know i don't know if it's because my family slovakia oh my my mom's lineage of slovakia would make goulash and that was one right it made me goulash says one of those who just stands out another one of my favorite lines is you know everyone one of the running jokes is everyone thinks bellows dead like i thought he was dead in the first sign that said is a shared jessica parker i thought he was dead he's no he's very much alive well sort of 'cause you're introduced him laying in a coffin oh yeah it's it's hard even explain because there's so many levels going there's so many sight gags going on all the times this move it yeah yeah carlos he does not deserve dismantle my shit so great a he really did have films a i don't know if he made them but he pitched called the goal goes west in doctor accua doctor i get it i like it it's crazy back in the day though like that you could get a meeting you know i mean it's not like today like you can't get a meeting with the studio executive unless like you were incredibly well connected and you know well heeled field and you've done something great but i kept thinking back in hollywood in those days he he makes a phone call and takes a meeting is just working on he's working like on the back lot he's like delivering a plant to a movie set and just like meeting people hangs out in the stock library very a f a stock footage library for a little bit yeah it does it there is a sort of idealized version of hollywood depicted in the film to yeah for sure and yeah but you could just had this a fundraiser at the brown derby and like get all your money if you get them pirata go over and talk to discover as such a sad scene what would you do for klondike bar is back in ainu snack size series starring on affairs watch on a disguise skies herself and go undercover with a hidden camera defined out like crazy things real people would do for their favorite ice cream you could see the full videos at klondike bar dot com slash videos and i'm telling you guys my favorite klondike is the old standard klondike vanilla in the center it is so delicious and i'm gonna be chicken these videos up for sure you could also share what you would do for klondike bar using the hashtag at four the number four the letter aj klondike hashtag for klondike that's hashtag the number four the letter ray klondike and show them what you do for klondike bar in you know what i would do for glenn beck bar mm just about anything thing is funny you're talking about the the bela lugosi footage with the buffalo stock footage superimpose in earlier hearing you say like i don't like the waste ape i think that was edwards deal you know guys like he's everything i know he's everything he shot it seems like yeah you know that that that final footers did he shot his ex outside tore johnson's house in real life in real life i've got johnson's house that footage of bela lugosi smelling the flowers the flowers yeah a and he really did have that little can of footage and they build when they went plan nine came out they builders bela lugosi last movie right a yeah i'm not one to waste tape that is crazy i wonder a weather how they truly met in real life but that was such a great point if that was true 'cause i looked up and i couldn't really find anything i just found it they did befriend each other after he was sort of washed up and that's what it is one of the interesting films of this the one of the interesting things of this film does is that it takes the fills in all these gaps they will never know but there's question marks and his sure a but it but it takes these little pieces these little ephemeral moments that we have documentation of like we have plan nine we you know what it looks like yeah and so injury creating that and filling in the gaps with each other of other parts of the week there's question marks yeah you get to transport back to that moment and move in it in a way that is connected with reality but also sort of its own thing it's crazy the tim burton managed to make a movie a celebrated 'em creativity in in craftsmanship a bit of a true love letter to filmmaking while it's a movie about the worst filmmaker whoever libs that's acrobatic assuming you know what if i mean it's kind of a bit of genius idea wise like to tell the story of ed would you could have done it a number of ways 'em but like to make it a love letter to hollywood in filmmaking into the man himself you know 'cause he's portrayed as the sort of great mind it's not suggested i mean the one guy says you're movies are bad sarah jessica parker melts down at one point and screams these movies are terrible but other than that like everyone is so down in like following likes lockstep right behind this guy i think you probably have to have that to give his many movies made his he he paid like i dunno seventy nine movies yeah he made more than her then recovered in that he made one in between like in this time on the night of the school or something like that not the goal goes west not as i do i have a friend that has seen every i would movie oh wow yeah interest a okay yeah i mean an accomplishment yeah yeah yeah for sure i have a sort of a love hate relationship with that stuff because it certainly kitchen kind of fun but i've never been one to like i even remember in college when you know everyone sat down to watch reefer madness thinking like getting very tired of it very fast reefer madness sucks yeah not good not good bad movie it's just i wash my father in law not that long ago yeah it's it's worth watching these higher this sort of legendary everything but it just doesn't make any sense it's interesting as a time piece at a time capsule you know but but the the the plot doesn't vm function in wait till they warn people buy marijuana right so sidetracked in this gums story about yeah majors but they're all played by adults yeah yeah i know i have all kinds of issues reefer madness plan nine perfect i wouldn't change a thing about the glitter gland is a hard one to watch and i have seen bright of the monster to a flash brady i don't think it changed names right friday adam initially scott some i mean it's got that great bela lugosi home i have no yeah a and it's got lots of tore johnson a but i do think i fell asleep while i watched it that's so great how he just picked up these random people this a former wrestler and this washed up junkie movie star in all these you know the the who's the guy played one of the cops and then the little postscript of ed wood said he he went on to be in many many more movies in what's known as a is the what a bad movies a the marlon brando bad but yeah it wasn't brando but i remember my dad says somebody who's really pro prolific basically and just so hysterical but he just collected these weirdoes i think it needed that though like he clearly needed like patricia arquette character kathy is so important is he had have this support you know yeah from a woman i think especially like in his private life mm like you need people to rally around in which i thought was really interesting interesting it's it's really kind of a small miracle that he was able to make that network of it's strange mitt cast folks and get these bizarre movies made 'cause they user you know there's a million be monster movies that have been made there's a reason that the ad would movies have have maintained his legacy all these years later said that he never got to be a part of that i mean you know it might be nicer that he did pass away before he was labeled the worst structure of all time great that would have been bad forum but i wonder if it would have been like a with the room guy who you know it was kind of like oh yeah always meant to a what's his name tommy wise that tell me why so kind of didn't he i mean at least is portrayed in the disaster artist is sort of like yeah i meant this hit some point added on one eighty and it's like oh yeah when i was clearly like thinks he's doing great things is very sweet and nice but he i mean if if he only could no now how much 'cause there's also like if if i watched the thing and i enjoy it if you plan nine i'm laughing the whole time i've watched like you know i had the good sleep i watched the first fifteen minutes last night after i watched it would yeah and i wanna watch the whole thing but i totally you know exhausted right if i'm watching again i'm laughing and i'm having fun yeah it's a good mood in may yet but it's a bad move it's like what is well no i think what is a good you know what is good whether it's bad yeah i mean he's bringing joy into people's life with his work through plan nine 'em you're right there are gives illion bad b movies but there are a few that like have loved on a and it's not i mean it is for reason and it's not because i mean there were there were a way worst movie simply a nine yeah i mean how do you say the worst movie of all time now i guess it gets weirder quantify i mean there's certainly like coming urged amos do make i'm sorry is it like how many mistakes did they make sure they have a lot of continuity earth day night day night they'll they'll hit a gravestone own in the whole set was shaken right board but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad movie that means you don't have much money but i mean to be fair it's a very bad move oh sure it's so it's not acting like ho dumb the writing is very repetitive an a sometimes it will write for lines to try and say something that someone could say in like a couple of words yeah economy of words it's a big deal screenwriting it just it doesn't make any sense you can't really follow what's going on man but i i in a bizarre way i think it's a masterpiece yeah they do unless you 'em in this really great like it's very perfectly set up 'em act wise in this movie that you get all this great back story and then the third act 'em as bella he gets called the bell is dead it really that's a great pivot point ended that whole third act sort of being the the plan nine thing in his his magnum opus in like this great feeling you get when you're watching him do this awful thing again you forget mm you know just feels like fucking rudy or like some sports movie like he's winning yeah he's doing it a the baptism stuff he gets funding of course from the church of beverly hills in that baptism scene is like one of the funniest in the movie i think because ed in a film american bill or is that he rejects eight and then all those evils sure and then he kind of struggles the get out of the pool is great lashing around cd actors were laughing the guy who baptize is if you 'cause you're so focused on murray if you look did that guy that i think this is just the gas i read this anywhere i think murray got free remnant improvised some of this spot oh i'm sure there's one where he's in 'em they're casting apart and glenn glenda and it's 'em men dressed in women's closing on this cast he's going around just kind of critiquing ban and he's like he's complimenting one is insulting you want how he's making that stuff up i think he's just answered roaming camera i think he's just totally reykdal yeah yeah he's gotta be because that just feels like bill murray being bill murray and they really never explain what his function is in the movies he's just sort of their yeah also little comic relief i think that was the case in real life to i think bunny breckenridge was a fringe friend yeah was in that movie but he wasn't in the rest of his movies he didn't put up any money which is interesting because he was wealthy he's in play nine a right yeah that's what i'm saying he's not the only one that he was always has the the can't remember his character's name it's like they ruler like what about glitter time i did my shows in paris i do glitter yeah many it's like you're the ruler of the galaxy has some clattering but in real life bunny breckenridge a lift to see this movie come out he lives it'd be ninety three years old now which is amazing and i think even at the end of this movie they said he's still alive and well bryan whatever i think he died not too long after this but a couple i think obviously bellows dead but you know we have a man in his well at all yeah the great careers well yeah yeah who is a real do is just go on the tonight show in stopping right just go up shut up is bizarre predictions of a people living on mars and yeah yeah but another sign of ads 'em sort of sweet night at k like he he believes him and he's even tell how heartbroken he is when chriswell says like you know just making all the shit up it's like it's just a total act and add this crestfallen he says it's show business if you wear tuxedo right people we buy your shit essentially yeah and like smash cut essentially to a at would has now grown a mustache right looking at the next shot that great johnny depp penciled in most areas and he's and he's doing a fundraiser the run derby yeah yeah so good man such a funny movie i forgot how funny it was i it has been years since i've seen it and it was wonderful rewatch it again yeah the end at the very end when a you know he he does have that great premier when packed theater house and he says a this is the one i'll be remembered for and it's like it's true that's kind of the cool thing about that line like that was the one that's true yeah you know it's funny that ed wood is a household name to some extent i know it really is i mean how many how many bad b movie directors were there back then hundreds and he has a single a single person except for edgewood he's the leader of the pack and that way yeah a so great a anything else in it what do you thinking we got this one oh i mean that's what i'm talking about forever i mean you know one of the reasons that i thought that it would be a good a choice and i think a better choice you know potentially a or at least more talk about then and then doing the point which i do genuinely love a is because of the component of using fabra yeah not only did ed would use this old stock footage the stock footage guy says even in the scene he's like i'm gonna steal this up this footage flows and octopus is and stuff like that and yeah you would up and no one's ever gonna use it again at edward was so thrilled by it i could make a whole movie i a says he just he needs that product in his hand yeah that's what it's about for him it's like having film to work with us and then sort of the elements of ephemera in ephemeral you know films inside of a at with the movies at at would made her totally ephemeral to it's some it's but bizarre coincidence sulfate we have them to watch still yeah you know there's like three versions of plan nine selling on amazon right now for free while stand on a corner glenda in a bunch of others yeah you could watch it a plan nine in black and white color or with the rich tracks guys commenting on oh they did oh yeah of course they did yeah that's funny man 'cause in a hundred years there'll be watching plan nine from outer space you know well let's hope so people are gonna forget let's hope so all right dude what will finish with five questions 'em five questions what's the first movie remember seeing the theaters while he's gonna say you're surprised by this i did see a plan nine colorized west a riff tracks in the theaters in the simulcasts simulcasts this my whole family but that's not the question you're asking that wasn't the first one i think a disney movie latin okay mention any to get you into that new in the live action thing i knew in movies come out i do not i my years into the ground like nineteen tina lebanon something i'm so out of touch yeah that's great there's a new aladdin live action aladdin movie out okay starring will smith is the genie oh i heard no told me about it god bless you alex's i'd love it you are so you you gotta be a first r rated movie you saw a such a good question on my parents were really strict about we above where we could consume so i i don't even know if i can remember that i think clockwork orange pretty early and psychographic orange when i was a teenager an x rated movie yeah beckon answer that and then my dad had it like on vhs and i was like anything like raunchy in the states like nah i never watched it together i remember being louisiana however yeah sitting there you know in the living room with my dad watching this thing yeah yeah but i mean you know a fantastic film of course risley subject matter yeah right that man that stuff where you walk out of a bad movie or or do you'd sit it out in the theater i tried really hard not to go to that yeah good on i'm pretty picky yeah a i can't even think of the last movie i saw in the theater though 'em ever walked out of a movie i've fallen asleep in the movie theater a couple of times i fell asleep doing inception exclusives pouring over rated people loved inception i think there's been no mates and like waiting great movie momento angela's awesome a you know the batman begins but yeah like batman movies like a v a the the war movie the dunkirk i thought it was good i haven't seen dunkirk yet a but a yet inception just i dunno in interstellar i did like either one of them that much i liked the magician one whichever that's well yeah the prestige of is good but then it's just a little hokey to it's like there's a twist yeah it's like oh you're always gonna do that aren't you it's i dunno he he certainly knows his craft i oh yeah i'm not big on chris nolan yeah but inception didn't do so anyways i dunno if i answer your question walkout i just fall asleep i guess the answer that sort of you're mentally walking out there you got i have fallen asleep in more movies but that's the one that stands out in my mind no that counts i think i'm gonna i'm gonna change that i'm gonna start saying from now and where you walk out or fall asleep at fifty i'm glad i had a lasting impact on the five questions how about another i mean can you think of another and i hate using the word obscure because i know what bugs you but i feel like you since you turn people into the point what others thing you think is under seen a like criminally under scenes thing film oh i think there's i mean there's so many 'em nineteen thirty four for mhm evergreen directed by victor seville a starring jesse matthews and who any of these people are bigger seville on british british okay 'em think of like who's the guy that does this like did the mat direct mash the movie robert altman do things like in all this home where there's tons of character yeah in a camera just going around yeah and there's all these extra and there's all these conversations happening in a joke here and something here and just all these yeah the opening shot of evergreen and really stricter seville canot i've seen which is only i've only said he made a ton of movies i've only seen a few of them he just had this this is the nineteen thirties when movie started getting free beacon maze right and the you could just do these incredible things and you couldn't do in cinema before because of technology wasn't there right because you know the the medium had just had just gotten to a place now a the the plot is ridiculous i won't go into it but involved like faking it death and stuff stuff or like lying about faking a death it's it's but it's a musical it's hilarious as kind of raunchy oh interest in a way that i don't think you see it as much and like american movies from tyrod you thinking like this is gone with the win right where it was like a big deal they said frankly my dear i don't give it out right right this is like hotter yeah the brits had their body humor yeah sure like irreverence yeah i do there's certainly some of reverence in this and there's some sincerity to a the songs are summer summer not so great a few of them are captivating a a but i would think i would say that something that i think that counts and evergreen check that out and even if you think it might not be a cup of tea like musical my ten year offer something it's it's one of those it's like you might think you would know what it was like and then you see like oh wait there's a lot more to this than you know then my assumption would be yeah i just stumbled upon it the other day and i was like oh okay there's a huge chapter of filmmaking hear anything about yeah it's great and discovering things like you think you have seen it all at a certain point then you discover something new like that are holding genre even you know where a sub genre that you're like oh my god had i not know this is the thing i'm sure now seeing it at all yeah that's true and then finally number five movie going one on one oh what you're movie going ritual when you do go to the theater like sit you eat stuff chasing i have had long discussions about this is we've gone you know there's a there's a theater right here that does a classic movies yeah midtown art yeah yeah and so yeah usually go get some chicken fingers there's something okay drink at least one i don't wanna drink too many beers or excuse you don't have to p a lot now i'm with you i don't wanna get up during the movie i don't drink it movies yeah no i am and i wanna pay but say you know mood in start till seven right leave work at five get some food beer yeah the movie use the bathroom beforehand right up now him and i have very different opinions but we have said together a few of these so i think six rows back in town arts is is where we six seven rose okay a center right yeah right and i watch all the crisis all the way through all the credits at the end okay yeah that's a nice addition no one ever throws that in which i watch all the credits very respectful this people a sure man you know so that might be the greatest work that might be their biggest achievement their name flashes flashes buying it screen right so that's great man hats off to you doing oh thanks for having me there's a lot of fun all right everyone i hope you enjoyed that i hope you've got a good sense of alex is he a he's someone that doesn't even though there's a new movie out and that really kind of says it all alex is a great guy very lucky to have him and very lucky to have him in studio today talk about ed wood an femoral a go check it out like i said the penultimate episode is out monday a the final tenth episode will be out the following monday you could find it wherever you get your podcast is you know and it's really really good a you can listen in any order like you said they're not super sequential but i would start out with that pilots real grabber and just go from there so big thanks alex hope you enjoyed listening in on the conversation on ed wood and thanks for listening everyone will see next week for more podcasts from i heart radio visit i heart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows have you ever wondered how far people would actually gopher klondike well that's why on affairs is going undercover in a new snack size series

alex williams johnny depp one day hundred thousand dollars eighteen fifteen months eight nine years twenty seconds fifty percent twenty second eight minute five percent twentysecond forty years three years nine years ten months two weeks two days
Introducing Ephemeral

Stuff You Should Know

08:34 min | 1 year ago

Introducing Ephemeral

"Hey, everybody, you've heard us talk about ephemeral, our buddy. Alex Williams, new podcast. Well, we are here to present the trailer to it. We think that if you just didn't really listen to us talk before I get that it's fine. But once you hear yourself a guarantee you're going to say, I want to hear that. Yeah. It's really good stuff. We're very proud of Alex in here we go with a trailer for the upcoming ephemeral. Back before we called it voicemail, or at least when voicemail meant something, different and more specific, the world had the humble answering sham. If you leave the name and number. If you aren't of the age to remember, the answering machine was a physical audio recorder the plugged into your phone lard. You couldn't call into it, remotely, you had to wait till you got home to check your messages. And they were the source for a lot of Seinfeld gas. George is at home. Most answering machines recorded on cassette tape your MAG. Netflix recorded message will be saved until you recorded over it or change the cassette when I was a little kid. My family had a different kind of answering machine. It was actually taped Lewis. I think it was a Sony, and it was digital. That's my dad, a man who's not apt to forget, a piece of telephone technology. It was like a little tower with a big push button on top that would blink once you had a message in addition to play and shuttle, it had a record button for your greeting. You come to out the pre season for us to be. But on this machine, you could also record your own messages directly into it like a voice mobile function on your phone. I think the idea was if you were the husband and wife passing running kids around and stuff that you could leave each other. Messages on it, if you were standing in front of it like you wouldn't have to call it on your non existent cellphone, because none of us that cell phones back that I don't think mom and I every ever used that but you used it because you liked hearing yourself recorded. It sat on top of my parents bureau. So I must have had to climb on a stool or something, but I spent untold hours talking into this device. Voice is gonna come out all weird and staticky. From the spring recorded it in played it many, many times she recorded multiple memo's than hit the play button. It would run them all back to back in the order in which they were created or will to a young me this absolute magic. By this method. And in a spirit of endless experimentation. I'd fill the tiny hard-drive recordings structured as imaginary shows. I have no idea. What about I'm not sure I did then probably just whatever came to mind. I've listened through it one hundred times pieces as I built my episode and a few times over as a finished product. And wait for my parents to check their messages. I have great parents, so they listened through with at least feigned enthusiasts. But sooner or later, we'd need the space with the click of a button. It was all gone. This is your grandmother. They won their. Over the active Easter. It's gone. It all by wherever okay? Make another part. And none of those were saved this tape, I've been playing is the closest thing I have left. It was actually recorded on micro cassette, which looks just like a regular cassette tape shrunk down to a quarter of the size. My next fascination after answering machines here. I'm wandering around my dad's office with his hand held voice recorder. Mobile sound about ten. I made lots of tapes like this. But as far as I can find this is the last one, I have left from this early in my life. Do I wish more had been saved especially those early answering machine productions? I don't know. I guess, so it's comparable to a baby picture an old yearbook or some other keepsake, maybe the most like a Sunday school craft projects for mother's day. Ragged and potentially embarrassing. However, sentimental, McGrew going blaze performance days. But it's a federal it's a fleeting moment, and it's gone. Even though I was young. I knew that at the time. It's these moments this show fix. It's on lost materials dropped threads forgotten stories ephemera in the way that it's intertwined in our lives, all those things, tangible, and intangible that you wish you could take just one more. Look at before they vanish into the past. America's produced like lots and lots of stuff just piles of stuff and it's sitting around in store spaces, and keep making it and buying it, and then what do you do with it, and it's got to go somewhere. The fact the matter is all day long day. There are warehouses full of stuff, getting just pushed off a cliff getting shoved off into the abyss and being destroyed all day, every day. That's the in the gospel runs. The canary records label a friend of mine Steve, slowly, and who's a record guy. Like me, said that what he loves is being the guy standing at the edge of the cliff waving his arms going wait. No. Let me look at those first before you throw them away. I think there might be some good stuff in there. There might be some stories. We don't think we should throw all of those away yet. 'cause museums can handle it. The big cultural institutions can't handle it. There's just too much stuff. You know, they're getting donated piles of stuff all the time. The fact of the matter is fair, don't always know, where care. They're looking for specific things that relate to specific narratives. So you always need somebody who's looking for a different story. We have a season ten episodes of stories from that realm of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases not saved at all. A bizarre tale of two infamous, New Yorkers detractor home in turned it into the shield. Fortress settle fem a missing chapter of American music history. There hasn't been a guess culturally that they matter so they get thrown in the garbage a decade's worth of original television lost to the Airways. It's over ephemeral you're going to see something else. The next second, nobody's ever going to see a piece of music. That's defied convention for seventy years. Right down, the sounds they heard during it and one girl said, I never realized there was so much listen to. And what could only be called an audio mystery said, nothing on it clearly had been reported, which intrigued me what is this going to be? These stories and more, given new life. If only for a glimpse. There's times I can't help but feeling like that little kid again talking into a machine that I'm sure won't save anything I say into. Is this podcast, a piece of ephemera in the making a forgotten story about forgotten stories, only time will tell? Ephemeral debuts may twentieth. Subscribe now on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts, and learn more at a feminine dot show. And of messages.

Alex Williams Netflix Sony Seinfeld Lewis George McGrew America apple Steve seventy years
Introducing Ephemeral

TechStuff

09:07 min | 1 year ago

Introducing Ephemeral

"Hey guys, I've got something special for you to listen to we have the trailer for a brand new podcast here from iheartradio. It's called ephemeral. It's done by my colleague, Alex Williams who sits not too far from me here in the office. And Alex is a cool dude. And I didn't even have a full appreciation of how cool a dude he is until he made this, this show is really something special. And I really think that listeners of tech stuff are going to connect with it, because it has a lot of. Common features with tech stuff now the whole series I did about the history of recorded media that kind of plays into a little bit of what Alex is talking about in this show. So check out the trailer and go check out the podcast. It's pretty cool. It's just got started. It's a couple of episodes are out already so you can go ahead and listen to those I really think it's something special enjoy. Back before we called it voicemail, or at least when voicemail meant something, different and more specific the world had the humble answering machine. If you leave the name and number if you aren't of the age to remember, the answering machine was a physical audio recorder that plugged into your phone lard. You couldn't call into it, remotely, you had to wait till you got home to check your messages. And they were the source for a lot of Seinfeld gas, George at home. Be most answering machines recorded on cassette tape your MAG. Netflix recorded message will be saved until you record, it over it or change the cassette. When I was a little kid. My family had a different kind of answering machine. It was actually tape Lewis. I think it was a Sony, and it was digital. That's my dad, a man who's not apt to forget, a piece of telephone technology. It was like a little tower with a big push button on top that would blink once you had a message in addition to play and shuttle, it had a record button for your greeting. You've come to the pre phases after gas used to be. But on this machine, you could also record your own messages directly into it like a voice mobile on your phone. I think the idea was if you were the husband and wife passing running kids around and stuff that you could leave each other. Messages on it, if you're standing in front of like you wouldn't have to call it on your non existent cell phone because none of us, that's all phones back then. I don't think mom and I every ever used that. But you used it because you liked hearing yourself recorded. Actually. It said on top of my parents bureau. So I must have had to climb on a stool or something, but I spent untold hours talking into this device. Is gonna come out all weird data keeping? Recorded it impeded many, many times if you recorded multiple memo's than hit the play button. It would run them all back to back in the order in which they were created. To a young me this absolute matching by this method. And in a spirit of endless experimentation. I'd fill the tiny hard-drive with recordings structured as a magistrate shows. Inside. You have no idea. What about I'm not sure I did then probably just whatever came to mind. I've listened through it one hundred times in pieces as I built my soda and a few times over as a finished product and wait for my parents to check their messages. I have great parents, so they listened through with at least feigned enthusiasts. But sooner or later, we'd need the space with the click of a button, it was all gone. Van manner. They won their. Over or play off of Easter gone. It's all. By word ever. Okay. Another. And none of those were saved this tape, I've been playing is the closest thing I have left, it was actually recorded on micro cassette, which looks just like a regular cassette tape shrunk down to a quarter of the size. My next fascination after answering machines here. I'm wandering around my dad's office with his hand held voice recorder. Sound about ten. I made lots of tapes like this. But as far as I can find this is the last one, I have left from this early in my life. Do I wish more had been saved especially those early answering machine productions? I don't know. I guess, so it's comparable to a baby picture an old yearbook or some other keepsake, maybe the most like a Sunday school craft projects for mother's day. Ragged and potentially embarrassing. However, sentimental. Lays performed fees, but it's a federal it's a fleeting moment, and it's gone. Even though I was young. I knew that at the time. It's these moments this show fixated on lost materials dropped threads forgotten stories ephemera in the way that it's intertwined in our lives, all those things, tangible, and intangible that you wish you could take just one more. Look at before they vanish into the past. America's produced like lots and lots of stuff just piles of stuff and it's sitting around in storage spaces and keep making it and buying it. And then what do you do with it, and it's got to go somewhere. The fact of the matter is all day long every day. There are warehouses full of stuff, getting just pushed off a cliff getting shoved off into the abyss and being destroyed all day, every day. That's the end Nagorski runs the canary records label a friend of mine Steve, slowly in who's a record guy. Like me, said that what he loves is being the guy standing at the edge of the cliff waving his arms going wait. No. Let me look at those first before you throw them. Oh, hey. I think there might be some good stuff in there might be some stories. I don't think we should throw all of those away yet. 'cause museums can handle it. The big cultural institutions can't handle it. There's just too much stuff. You know, they're getting donated piles of stuff all the time. The fact of the matter is fair, don't always know, we're care. They're looking for specific things that relate to specific narratives. So you always need somebody who's looking for a different story. We have a season ten episodes of stories from that realm of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases not saved at all. A bizarre tale of two infamous New Yorkers detractor their home and turned it into the shield fortress at a feminine. A missing chapter of American music history. There hasn't been a guess culturally that they matter so they get thrown in the garbage a decade's worth of original television lost to the Airways. It's over. Ephemeral. You're going to see something else, the next second and nobody's ever going to see a piece of music. That's defied convention for seventy years. Right down, the sounds they heard during it and one girl said, I never realized there was so much listen to. And what could only be called an audio mystery said, nothing on it clearly had been recorded, which intrigued me what is this going to be? These stories and more, given new life. If only for a glimpse. There's times I can't help but feeling like that little kid again talking into a machine that I'm sure won't save anything I say into. Is this podcast, a piece of feminine the making a forgotten story about forgotten stories only time will tell? Ephemeral debuts may twentieth. Subscribe now on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. And learn more at a federal dot show. End of messages.

Alex Williams iheartradio Netflix Sony Seinfeld Lewis America apple George Steve seventy years
How to Love Yourself - and Other Topics

Just Think

34:25 min | 1 year ago

How to Love Yourself - and Other Topics

"Hello, another episode of just thing, my his Taylor, and I will be your today. We'll be revisiting with a previous guest of the show. His name is Alex Williams. For those who don't know him. He is part of the podcast network that I'm loosely part of little gray, boy, and he has some pretty wonderful shows, my favorite of his is my wax museum, where he sits down and talks to people in his life about various topics, on interviews them about their life experiences, and worldviews and stuff like that. And I actually was on his show couple of weeks back are on the time that we first interviewed each other ams so you can go check out that episode. This is a very impromptu conversation about, you know, liking yourself. So it will be very laid back, I figured of all the stuff that's happening this week. It would be beneficial for us to have a more laid back conversation on this podcast, especially with the week prior being about abortion. Some I figured you guys might want something more laid back and relaxed and we'll go back to some hard hitting topics next week. So enjoy the show out. Swims? This was a wonderful conversation, and definitely check out his show, especially my axiom and especially but not right now. But especially the episode that I was on, because it's a cool upset need to learn a little bit more about me from a biographical point of view unless of an intellectual wants so. Yup. So without further ado, let's go ahead and get started right after this quick message. Do you enjoy learning about weird things that happened in our everyday life woman, does Crotty son gets nude dog steals corn bread mix from WalMart? Police say man Mary's hologram UK installs knife, surrender been took her knife crime, criminals steal all the knives. Just search Tessa and Elliott argue that's E, L, I OT, or visit Tessa Elliott argue dot com. Record the Skype just in case. It's nice to have it when it goes bad. But if you can send me your end that'd be awesome. Yes. Yes, I will. All right. Supporting. So don't say anything too stupid. Hobby, only very cautious here. I don't know. You don't have to hospice can't be outrageous. How about that? Just don't be stupid. No nazis. I'm not anoxia. So I think most people are not funny late, that, that whole thing was pisses me off so much. Yeah. Yeah. They're very. Overused the oh, yeah. Yeah. So liking yourself. 'cause I I've been kind going through this thing lately, where I where I have actually I've like. I used to be very intense and always going to parties going out to events and stuff. Right. I like a party animal or anything, but I love being social, I'd always drop in on people. And, and now I've found in my life that I just really enjoy alone time I love being on my own. Sounds like you have your converting to introverted nece. Well, I don't know if it's being introverted 'cause I still really enjoy going out and chatting with people, but I feel less of a longing towards it. So it's more like, you know, you don't have you don't feel the need to constantly be going out in partying, or whatever in your you kind of enjoying the reflection that's coming with just being by yourself and thinking and working out through problems. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's exactly right. Cool. That is like me to, to. You have never been apart here. So I totally get that. Where do you think that like recently stemmed from was there, a particular event or particular thought process, the gut you starting on that path? I feel like I, I always. I don't know. I slowly came, I guess, to terms almost with who I am as myself, and who I enjoy the like, I feel like I've worked to a point where I actually enjoy the person I am enough that I'm not trying to drown it out by going and being around all these other people. Okay, if that makes sense. So what were you trying to draw out when you were going to, like, what were you uncomfortable with or what were you wanting to ignore? I was uncomfortable with myself, you know, I'm uncomfortable with my personality with how I looked how I felt about myself and I just didn't want to hear it. And I feel like a lot of people a lot of people are like that. You know, and we all go through that at different times with different things. Right. Right. And, and so it was kind of my way of ignoring might own emotions in my own thought. It's not that I have like at ton of baggage that I was putting off right. Yeah. But I just enjoyed not dealing with it. Right. That's pretty intuitive to channeling in the human nature to be social. I mean, we're, we're creatures that in our DNA in our structure were meant to congregate into groups and we find, you know, it's not like. It's not security, but it is security, we find comfort in other people even for introverts the numbers like one or one two, three while an extra verse, obviously they can handle larger groups. So it doesn't necessarily have to be that, you know, you're, you're unhappy with yourself that you may find. Yes, something comforting about me with other people. So, right. And that's, that's something super intuitive that I wish more people understood about human nature's that we are in social, so is there's nothing wrong with enjoying the company others. Some people definitely think down that path where like, oh, I'm not happy with myself. So I feel that I have to fill this void with other people. And it's like, well, it's not that you're unhappy with yourself as that you have to ev- every now and then succumb to your instincts, because we are still creatures. Yeah. Exactly. Right. Like you you're. You have to spend time with other people in there. There's nothing wrong with that. I just think that it's the meaning behind it. Right. And I think for a lot of my life, I was spending that time with those people because I didn't want to spend time with myself, rather than an actual desire to just want to be around those people. Right. Yeah. Will being with yourself as a scary thing, you let your mind go on a dull ter-, you know, for forty minutes, you can go in some really weird rabbit holes like mistrial. Dangerous. Yeah. In and you get bored as well. You're just sitting there like I gotta do something I feel like a feel like sometimes you just have to let yourself, be bored and do nothing. Yet will your brain needs to reset iming. It's an electrical circuit. If you're constantly hammering it out circuits fried, and that's not a metaphor. That's the truth. Yeah, you got to let it chill every now and then. Yeah. Okay. So you started partying less, and, you know, you're finding more like more alone time. But also, you, you put an emphasis on you said boredom, but I'm going to say you know resting. Again, was there any like, what made you realize that resting was important was did you just like kind of happen to be bored for a little while when this is nice or like something? Tell you or did you go through something? What's up? It's just been kind of a long process, like I think, at some point, I acknowledged that that was the issue, I realize, like oh, you know, I I'm going out. And I'm just spending time with these people, I know. And I mean, when I say partying, it's like very Christian version of partying, right? Like it's just hanging out playing board games, but I would stay out later than I maybe wanted to, like inside. I knew while I gotta be up tomorrow early. Right. But I just kind of let it prolong. I couldn't say no to hang out with people. I always just went to did it and, and eventually, just does the point where I realized, like I'm staying up way later than I should. I'm neglecting, lot of personal things in my life, including homework and work itself. Right. And so just kinda got to that point where I thought this is unhealthy. And then I started saying. N-no and spending time actually doing the things I should do and found homework. Isn't that bad? It's not that bad, if you enjoy it. Yeah. So just be careful. You don't go too far the other direction you know what I mean? Well, yeah, exactly. All right. Is that was definitely me? I was deaf. I definitely grew up. And I said, no allot actual outta time. When I was younger, I said, no, not because so much wanted to not do things, but more so that I couldn't and when I was old enough to where it could was in that mindset. It is important, though, to find something that interests you in your off time to occupy yourself because. Yeah, if you find your homework interesting, which is probably good thing if you're what you're studying in your interest in it. That's a great thing because I definitely didn't had that the last two years of my undergrad. I was so ver. And so I keep myself with different things, you know, in my senior year is podcast. So it's important to have that figured out. So. In what ways you know, since you're kind of taking his opportunity to learn a little bit more about yourself into appreciate yourself little bit more in what ways has your work quality of life quality of work gotten better. You know, some insight listeners gleaned from you from that. Well for one, I'm not behind on homework. You know. So I've seen my grades benefit from it. I've also seen my work life benefit from it. I'm actually able to provide better services for my clients, because I actually take the time out of my day to work for them instead of doing every project at the last second. Right. And end it opens up a lot of creative avenues as well. I find I find I do I do better work because I give myself more time to accomplish it. I can say, oh well, let's try this. Okay. Well that didn't work as well. Let's try that instead of saying, okay, well, I just got to get it done. So just do the thing that I know kind of works in all off just push it out. Be done with it. You know, though to the next thing, right? Although I did have an econ professor. You might appreciate this might econ professor said, it's always best to leave things till the last minute, because there's always a chance, you're going to die between now and the dude, eight so you might as well just do things you enjoy now and push it off, and sir. No, but he followed it up with. That's just a joke. Do your homework. Please. Right. Yeah. It's, it's, you know, there's like I see your logic. But that's a bad idea. As a procrastinator. It is not a good thing in now that the focus on not procrastinating. Yeah. Because you just graduated didn't she I graduated a three weeks ago as recording four weeks ago. Recording on I started law school last week. Holy cow. That's a long break. You got there. It was amazing. Yeah. It was. It was the worst break ever. It was nonstop. I graduated moved worked my girlfriend did come up to my hometown for a week. That was cool while she was there still working doing shit. And then while they're my e rating on. And then. And the moved here that was hectic in crazy weird in the been here either. So that's awed. But I guess I digress. So, yeah. So now you've gotten through unite your homework work on better. I have a I have a hunch that your friends haven't minded minded might that amount. They haven't mound, sir. How's your social life in late respectful of this recent change, or I think, for the most part, they're pretty respectful of it. I mean I get people asking me to come in. Hang out, which, I really appreciate. And I usually do go usually go and spend that time with them, but I'm also very aware that I do have other things I need to do like tonight, I was invited to go out and play games. And I I went for half an hour I played a fun game. I chatted with, you know everybody there for a second. And after the game was over, I said, well, okay, got ahead out. Right. And they and this was kind of an interesting saying they said, well, don't you want to continue playing this game, and I said it is really fun. And I can't say that I don't want to play it because I'm enjoying it. I would like to However, I have other priorities. I said, I have a podcast I need to edit, and I've got some homework, Randy to get done. And, and they, you know, they kind of asked, you know, will one more I said while no sorry you know, and it's. Okay to just tell people I have other priorities. I enjoyed this. This is fun. But other things take precedent and people respect that and for the listeners who might be listening to that goal. Let's little little harsh for me. You know you can you can follow that up with, you know, maybe not right now. But how about you need pick a date, you know, if you know gonna be free Tuesday night. How about tonight chances are they'll say, no because they'll be busy with their own things, and you can feel better and everyone's happy. Yeah, exactly. And you, you can always like you said, you can always schedule something. And if you schedule it, if you say this time is going to be dedicated for this, then you just respect that time you said, that's the time for this, and I will be there for this. Right. Right. And I also wanna make distinction to listeners who might be tempted to take this too far finding time for yourself. Sometimes yourself as with other people to don't take it as you have to be in solitude, if time for yourself means you're playing Catan with four other people are three other people. So be go play. Time you enemy you don't there's this tendency when people talk about finding time for themselves, meditation, whatever whatever, you know, treating themselves that has to be singular in smut truth. It may be for me. It may be for you. It may not be for whatever. But don't get hung up on that fell. That's that's a, that's a really good point. It doesn't have to be alone. Exactly. But you've recently have found that you like a loan. So what else have you been doing in your longtime outside of homework work in podcasting? I've been reading, actually which which is really strange for me. I read two books before a before becoming adult to books in my whole life before eighteen and, and so that, you know, but the now I since then I've read a lot more. I've read a lot of stuff and I'm reading a fantasy series by, you know, Tim from the little boy podcast network that were. He has the nights nerves podcast anyways. Yes, he says, that I know I know names by that, right. Yeah. By their podcast. Yeah. I mean that's the way it is for most people in, in that little group. But I'm reading his book series, it's like a fantasy series. I'm reading it. I'm loving it. I'm almost on the second book already way. You've written a book. Yeah. He's, he's got a trilogy of books there that are actually really good. Yes. A mailing to that. That's kind of cool. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm really enjoying. It is really cool. The way he writes informs the story and stuff. So I'm enjoying that as well. You know something that I never really enjoyed growing up. I'm able to get into because I'm doing a little bit more self exploration. Because unlike I am not always around people not always occupied by other people. And now I can think, okay. What, what does Alex enjoy? So do you like books more, or do you like podcast more for gleaning information? For information definitely podcasts. I'm definitely. Auditory. Learner. However, I don't know if there's an audio book of something I'll listen to that. I'll always listen before I'll read, okay, but I am enjoying reading a little bit more now. Cool. Have you been reading like these trilogy storyline types books, or have you picked up anything else note, usually it's business? And marketing sort of books is kinda my usual Goto that I really enjoy. I have a few that I read every year, just because I, I like the messages that they have in kind of the ideas, it's good to solidify, you know, so you read it a few times, might entrepreneurial professor in law school has had its read how to fly a horse how to fly horse used by I would have pulled up. I think it's, it's Ashton something. It was the glean, the whole point of the book in the first three pages, it was so repetitive. But he seemed to really like it, and he's a business background so how to fly a horse. I'll look it up on telling the second cool. Well, how about those readers in the audience what kind of business books would you recommend, which tops? I love that. This is the first business book I ever read. It's called, however as myself from failure to success in selling it long title. It's by Frank Becher, and it is actually it's pretty short in gives very, concise, ID vice he, he talks about in the beginning of the book how much she hates books and how how he thinks it's kind of a waste of time to just always be reading the same book that says the same thing, you know, by different people write us, he just gives like very clear. You know, this is how you can be successful in selling a few tips. He gives us like find out what your client wants and health get it, right? Another one is hang up your pants, because it helps keep the creases out Jess, please hang up your pants. I don't understand why people fold their pants. Oh, it's, it's, you know, used to fold my pants. And after reading that, both I thought hunt, maybe I should try that. And I just I I like it. I. I think it, it looks so much. Nicer hung. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's way better. And then another one, if you wanna marketing book primal, branding by pack trick Hanlon is really good. And then another one that I enjoy for anything. Whether it's business personal life relationships, anything like that. It's a more beautiful question. And I forget the author's name, but it's a fantastic book talks about combining ideas and creativity and stuff. Awesome. Yeah. You can check those out on how to fly horses written by Kevin Ashton, if Kevin Ashton auto I don't know who he is. Like, what's the book did you finish already? Yeah. We have it read by first class. It was so the premise of the whole thing is about creation, eventually discovery right in this whole notion that our societal tendency to think of innovation in genius as this kind of Allah, Rica moment is totally false. And everybody has a capacity to create, everybody has the capacity enter innovate. You know there's some things that he said that are pretty good. There's some things that he so that was kind of like, okay, probably not. But whatever. In. Yeah. It was very repetitive. Books. I wouldn't recommend it to, like cover to cover sort of deal. People would. Right. So, but if you're like stuck in this rut of I can't seem to motivate myself because I don't think I'm smart enough to achieve something. I want to do you might wanna read the first three chapters and learn. That's not quite how it works you. It's one of those books, you know what I mean? I feel like I gleaned anything new from it. But my phone is loud. I am sorry. I didn't feel anything new from it like for my experience. But I also at my experience weird. So there you go. It can also be good just to help you solidify those ideas into reinforcement crucial to liking yourself much. See I try to circle. So, right. If you understand that you have the capacity to, to do great things, I am also of the belief that anyone has the capacity. Great thing. Some people may have different capacities in different areas. So be everybody has the capacity to do good stuff. So if you don't believe that bringing yourself to believe that is crucial to develop in the self confidence, you need to light yourself, because liking yourself has nothing to do about appreciation, everything into a self confidence. It's knowing when you're right knowing when you're wrong knowing, what to improve knowing what you're good at. That's how I see it and maybe under scenario. Astle but. Being able to say this is what I know I can do and knowing your limits, you know what I mean. The man who knows what he does not knows knows more than men who doesn't right? Yeah. I think I think knowing your limits. And that only comes when you allow yourself to talk to yourself and be honest, you real with yourself. Yes, but not negative, yet you don't like putting yourself down is not healthy. No does anything. But it's super important to tell yourself. You know, hey, maybe work on x wines at right end to, to put effort into those things acknowledgement into those things that you can get started on that path. Yeah. Zack. So while we're on that topic. Like what is an example, that you've had recently that kind of little FIS that it was nurse? I'm all. Let me think. Life. Saint one, one of the biggest ones. Was. Homework. I all my life in, in grade school. I never studied ever, I never tried ever never did my homework and, and then it was coming into university in my first semester, I started trying to do my homework, right? And an I knowledged that. That I was neglecting it, and largely because I was going out in spending time with, with people, which fending time with people on a huge advocate for, but you have to keep your priorities straight, you have to be able to take care of yourself and for me part of that being university was doing my homework. So I do knowledge to myself, that, you know, this is a problem, even though you can spit it in a positive light on spending time with good, people meeting people, making friends, I'm having fun, right? You can spin it in a positive light, but you need. You need to realize that sometimes just because something is good doesn't mean it's the best thing right now. And sometimes that results in while Friday night, I'm gonna be doing a little bit of homework, a little bit of work because for me right now that's the best thing. And, and it was tough for me to aknowledge that end to tell myself like, hey, Alex, you need to stop X wines said and change these behaviors about yourself. And, and then now though for with it, actually. You know, take action. Right. Right. Yeah. And I think something that you're kind of alluding to their you said, you know, do what is good. You want to do what is good. But you really can't, you know, you don't want to. But I think what's really running into as notion of what really as good as what's good in the moment, really what you need to do. Or do you need to expand your viewpoint to see that? No. There's something greater. If you apply yourself now to something else union. Well, that's, that's exactly right. I mean, are you are you working in the moment, or you working for the future? And I, I like to kind of have short short term goals over long-term goals. Right. I like to think what am I doing now? Right. Because -cerned about the present, but you have to at least be aware of the future. Right. If I if I spend this money on this thing now is that going to hurt me later. Right. If I if I buy the fancy car now in making two hundred dollars a month payments, which, I mean, isn't actually, the fanciest car, he can spend way more on guardian started listening car for one nine nine a month in 'em. Is nice carpet was on is right? Yeah. And you know, but I mean I sold a guy a truck once he was paying eight hundred dollars a month for the for this truck that. That's what the payments wound up being and. You, you just think in this guy was twenty years old. He happened to have enough money slash help from his parents that he could do it. And but that, you know, you don't wanna spend every penny you get right? You gotta sink is there something better. I could be doing here and everybody's gonna have different priorities, right? Just just depends. I mean I make stupid decisions. The you know, it's not going to go away, but you can try and raise your awareness of good better best. You know, it's end to do this thing, what's gonna be better than that. And what's going to be the best decision in everything, there's always gonna be stuff like that? Because there are lots of good things you can do. Right. Right. And sometimes, too, like the quote unquote wise or the quote, unquote, good decision, even though you're doing something, you think it's stupid may actually be better for you in the long run to us. Lot needs to go by all the pot you wind milk because. You don't take it to that extreme listener whose, again, thinking that way. But yeah, it's important to realize, too, that sometimes you may look at purchase for example, because those are easy to pick on. You're like do I really need to buy? What I just by today, this bag coffee, you know, it costs two dollars more than this other coffee. Do I really need to spend two dollars AMR? I answer might be. Yes. The answer might for whatever reason because it tastes better. Let's make your morning. That much better every day for two weeks in shirts two dollars really two dollars or you know, I know I struggled a lot when I bought the laptop currently on right now because it was top of the line for what I was looking at, and I'm like, I could buy similar specs compromise. A few things say a couple of hundred dollars and my girlfriend looked at me and went you need to buy the thing that you want once in your life. Yeah. I mean. It can't be stingy. Right. Exactly. An important to like, you know, finding part of liking yourself is planning for the future. Right. The person that I have the person that I like more what I'm dealing myself is not the person kind of jumping back a little bit here is not the person who thinks of the now, the person of the now he tends toward he tends towards them. I'm not a hedonist, but he tends towards hedonist tendencies soft pleasure in the moment, not focusing on the future. Right. Right. Although that's fine. In the moment. It's yeah, it's just not productive in the end of the day where I find that I like more one I'm building on my own foundation for lack of a better term, and that might be helpful for people who are struggling to like themselves is that it may seem counterintuitive to, like yourself, more when you're grinding at work, or doing more homework or reading a little bit more because that stuff is boring. It just is. But when the dividend start paying off in a takes awhile, it may take three months. I may take six months it might take two years, right? It starts paying off you're going to like sophomore ever would have focusing on the moment and practicing hedonistic tendencies. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think. I think avoiding that hedonism is huge just thinking, you know, just thinking a little bit beyond now's pleasure. Right. Think about tomorrow morning. If tomorrow morning, you've accomplished nothing. Then you're probably doing the wrong thing way. Let's I it can be as simple as you know, if feels better, too. If feels better to go, go to bed in a clean room. Right. Yes. And so, you know, if you take five minutes to clean up your space, right? And, and it's just those little things that you can do now that are maybe a little bit annoyed, but are so much more. They, they add satisfaction at a later date. Right. In, if heels better bed, Nick Lima room. It feels ten times better to wake up in a clean room, if feels even better to not have, you know, when you put the first thing down, it's easier to clean up that room because you're cleaned, it the little things that work on making yourself better, making your environment better. They add up over time and the it like it compounds interest. You wanna mean if you spend a little bit of time, and it makes it easier to live a life in which you can like yourself, more into where you can improve yourself, more into where you can't enjoy, even in the moment activities, whatever that. Means for you. It is just so much easier, and it sounds so counterintuitive, and it probably to it probably is counterintuitive, and that's why people don't do it. But the because you just don't realize it. Right. But at it's you have same compounding effect in the other direction as well. Where if you don't take that five minutes to clean up, and then it builds builds and builds and, you know, before you know it, you're a hoarder right? Obviously, that's like a way, extreme example. But it's you know, it's a real thing in the now affects the president or the now affects future in really. I believe in focusing on the present. But you gotta think about the future too, right? Yes. And again, that means different things for different people. If your version of cleaning room is spending time with your friends to make sure you don't go insane in chemistry class. For example. Yeah, exactly. It's kind of hard thing about these types of topics, we trying to speak to an audience that you have to you have to constantly be hitting home that it's cool personal. What works for me in you might not work for listening. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I it's just it's so it's so easy to do little things add up. And it sounds weird but take the butterfly effect. Seriously? It sounds dumb. It sounds. Yeah. Incredibly ignorant thing that small things make the differences. But they really do. And, and I, I think even if you figure it out, and it makes sense to you. It's it's hard to put it into action. Yeah. That's true too. Yeah. I, I mean I seen in my life, you make these small choices end. Eventually you get out of the, what seems like a big rut now, you know, down the line. You'll just look back in you'll realize you climbed out of the end on top of that. He climbed the mountain. And the climb was worth it. Yeah. So view man. Well or wrath it up suit. It's eleven o'clock might time on. Oh, you're our behind. Yeah. Coolio while coming on a little bit of a pea brain conversation because I'm a little place. That's okay. Hey, man. Anytime you need a chat. Let me know. It sounds good. And for those I should've I'll introduce you in the Andrew should have introduced to be for those who stick around this long, this has been Alex Williams. He has a couple of mazing podcast. Check out my wax museum my personal favorite from him. It's an amazing podcast. If you wanna plug it, you can talk a little bit more about it, but you should definitely check him out on. He's also on Instagram, Twitter and a couple other things. So there you go. Awesome. Thanks, taylor. And I enjoyed it. Awesome.

Alex Williams professor Tessa Elliott Kevin Ashton UK Crotty Mary WalMart Instagram Randy president Tim Frank Becher Jess Hanlon Rica Andrew Zack
Dancing mania outbreak - June 24, 1374

This Day in History Class

07:43 min | 1 year ago

Dancing mania outbreak - June 24, 1374

"During our dent on the planet. Humans have made a lot of stuff. Some of it is treasure. Some of it is junk, some of it is just forgotten about how do we place value in the things we create what deserves just one more look before it vanishes into the past these questions, underpinned the new podcast, ephemeral host Alex Williams, guys you through a wasteland of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases not saved at all. You can listen to a federal on apple pie casts the iheart radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can learn more at a federal dot show. The stay in history class is a production of iheartradio. What's up everyone? Welcome to this day in history class where we bring you a new tidbit from history every day. Today is June twenty fourth twenty nineteen. Today was June twenty-fourth thirteen seventy four in Aachen, Germany people began writhing screaming and dancing uncontrollably. It was the beginning of a major outbreak of a phenomenon called dancing mania, some of the earliest accounts of dancing mania in Europe date back to the seventh century, the affliction would move like an epidemic causing people to shout and dance wildly until they reached a point of exhaustion, the barefoot fire Johan paula's, once told a story about outbreak in a village in Saxony in the twelfth century, but the thirteen seventy four appearance of the phenomenon that began in Germany was the first major outbreak of the dancing plague. The phenomenon was also known as corio mania, Saint John's dance Saint guys dance and Saint Vitus dance among other names. The outbreak of thirteen seventy four was first described Aukin starting on June twenty four th thirteen seventy four but from there it spread across Europe. Particularly to other parts of Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium in his eighteen thirty two monograph German position. Houston's Friedrich Hecker wrote of the ailment, which you call, quote, a strange delusion. He said the following it wasn't convulsion which in the most extraordinary manner. Infuriated, the human frame and excited, the astonishment of contemporaries for more than two centuries since which time it has never reappeared. It was called the dance of Saint John or a faint Bitis on account of the can't leaves by which it was characterized and which gave to those affected Wiltz performing their wild stands and screaming and foaming with fury all the appearance of persons possessed. He described people dancing in goals holding hands. Streaking out spirits names gasping, for breath and falling to the ground, they hit their heads against walls walked into rivers and danced for hours and quote wild delirium. Some people reportedly danced themselves to death by the sixteenth century dancing mania was thought of as an affliction sent by a Saint or a punishment from God, some people called on faint Vitus. Hence the name Saint Vitus dance. Some people thought it was possession. And that affected were attempting to cured themselves through dancing still others, like philosopher, physician and mystic pair celsius believed that the phenomenon was psychogenic parasol, says broke dancing mania down into three categories Correa imaginative. Oh, career-low Sheva an Korean naturalists career, imaginative, meant it came from the imagination career CBA meant a camp from sexual desires and career naturalists meant it was an organic medical disorder magistrates and priests, treated dancing mania through interventions like prayer extra systems in hiring dancing, partner's vote, parasol says recognized the futility of such treatments instead. Care should be up to physicians. People have also attributed the phenomenon to social turbulence, the black death a pandemic that killed millions of people in Europe and Asia caused widespread devastation despair, and fear. Some authors suggested that dancing mania was a kind of stress induced, psychosis that developed in response to plague starvation, and other horrors, in conflict other said that the phenomenon dimmed from food poisoning from ri- affected by ergot was showing of religious ecstasy or was just elaborate trickery on the part of impoverished people. Try to get over on others. Thing mania is now considered a mass psychogenic illness as symptoms spread quickly, but have not identifiable cause in Strasbourg. France in fifteen eighteen there was another outbreak of dance mania, the town banned public gatherings and designated areas for people to dance in and a variant of the phenomenon also popped up in Italy in the fifteenth, century and lasted until the seventeenth. It was called Tarrant, ISM, as it was linked to the bite of the tarantula at the time, people with Taranto, them with dance to music until they feel attempting to cure, their illness hysteria was often pegged as the cause of terrorism and women who were affected, what was once called Saint Vitus dance is now known as sit in hams Korea, a neurological disorder characterized by involuntary movement of body parts and facial muscles. But the exact cause of dancing mania is still a mystery. I'm Jeff co and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at T, D H fee podcast. If you haven't listened to a new show hosts call a popular, you can get anywhere. You listen to this day in history class. Thanks again. And we'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from I heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, what would you do to stay alive? Would you Wade through snake infested water? Would you drink your own urine? Would you cut off your arm? When the stakes are life and death. You might be surprised at the length you go to, to save yourself every Monday. The park has networks podcasts revival, demonstrates, the human spirits ability to triumph over deadly adversity. And it looks that the lasting psychological effects of living through a traumatic event survival tells high intensity stories of people who are in life or death situations. And it explores the strategies that they used to survive. You'll hear stories of survival about a pilot and passenger crash landing in the Canadian Yukon in the dead of winter. You'll hear a story about a man escaping from a North Korean interment camp. And you'll hear about people trapped on thinking ships and a lot more stories of survival. How far would you go to stay alive? Search four and subscribe to survival wherever you listen to podcasts shows, and don't forget to rate and review and tell them this day in history class sent you.

Europe apple Germany Saint Vitus Saint John Saint John Alex Williams Aachen Friedrich Hecker Wiltz Strasbourg Canadian Yukon neurological disorder ri Aukin France Correa partner parasol
From the Vault: Beyond the Uncanny Valley

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

55:44 min | 1 year ago

From the Vault: Beyond the Uncanny Valley

"Pyeho Chelsea handler. And I'm launching a brand new podcast with iheartradio called life will be the death of me. And I'm gonna talk to all these different people, my BFF Mary McCormack. That's what we should call. My book tour the apology, or great idea. Sorry. Everyone on this whole podcast should be called. It should be called with the orange because of the orange theme in the book Archie. Glad I went to therapy. Life will be the death of me with Chelsea handler, and subscribe at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert lamb. And I'm Joe McCormack, and it Saturday time to go into the vault this time we're bringing you part two of our exploration of the uncanny valley. This episode was originally published April sixth twenty seventeen should be jump right in rubber. Let's do it. Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how stuff works dot com. Hey, working to stuff the blow your mind. My name is Robert lamb. And I'm Joe McCormack today is going to be the second part of a two part series. We're doing on the uncanny valley last time we ventured into the uncanny valley. So if you haven't heard that episode you should go back and listen to that. I lay a lot of the groundwork for what we're going to be talking about today, but we explored the origination of the concept of the uncanny valley, what it means to be in the uncanny valley, and some research on, whether this valley, actually exists or not today. I think we want to start off by looking at if it does exist. What might be some explanations for it indeed? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna dive into it a bit more and move as the title suggests beyond the uncanny valley. But before we do that. I I do wanna talk about RoboCop. Of course you wanna talk about RoboCop, because we talked about RoboCop pretty much every day. Yeah, it's, it's an important film important films. I'll say at least at least the first two arguably the third one to throw in. The TV series of you like, but there was a TV series. Oh, yeah. Robocop VCR. It was one of those that would, I think it would come on SCI fi, or it came on the cable channels. I only have a vague awareness of it, because it seemed to be a far lower key, RoboCop type show. Oh, okay. So in many of the studies that we talked about, in the last episode, they were looking at largely three categories of robots in humans, and androids. So you had pure robots things that are just undeniably machines and were mostly okay with, then you have humans or, or, or perfect human replication, so okay, so you look at it, and it either is a human, or it's such a good representation of human ideally that you would not think that it was a robot. Right. The third category. Here's where you're going to get into the danger zone. Right. The human like robots, where you look at it and you say, I see what you're going for there, but. It's creeping me out. Yeah. So I think is interesting to line, this up with the holy trinity of robocops. Okay. So this will mostly make sense. If you've seen the RoboCop films, but I feel like most people know what we're talking about here. First of all, you had the, the proto RoboCop Ed to nine oh, this is maybe the greatest seen in the first film is before we get a humanoid RoboCop. They just have this big drone object, that is supposed to enforce the law, and it ends up shooting somebody in the board room. Yeah. It's a walking law enforcement tank with a robot commanding robot voice. Yes. So that you look at it and there's no denying. This is not a friendly device, but not really humanoid at all. Not really at all it just walks on big, big legs that can't even navigate human stairs. Yeah. But I would say I have great affinity for Ed to nine out without having to worry about it actually shooting me. It's kind of cute in a way. Okay. Now then we have. I've RoboCop itself himself, the classic RoboCop, the penal Peter Weller, and he is a cyborg or perhaps an Android, depending on how you want to view the descriptions, so he's he has a relatable living, human face, which is a fixed to, to honor him in some, some explanation, or perhaps, to make him more comfortable not only as a police killing machine. But also a community law enforcement officers, so RoboCop moves around with very robotic movements. Yeah. Speaks in a very robotic voice. Yeah. But he's face is a living human face. Yeah. So in a way that, that seems like it might just sort of, you know, to read, perhaps more into the original film than was intended. Perhaps this was a way to, to get the on the uncanny valley. We can't replicate the human face. We'll just get actual human face the dead cop and just plaster it up there. Oh, but I'd say robo cop with his mask on really does kind of get into the. Canny, valley and Weller does some good work. Forcing us in there. I think they're the sort of going for it. Yeah. Okay. Well that brings us to the next generation RoboCop two. Yeah. Which is not just the name of the second, RoboCop movie. But also the, the model of RoboCop that replaced, the original RoboCop, they think hey, what would happen if we put Tom Noonan in there. That's right. So they, they have another essentially a walking tank, kind of like to nine except it's powered by the brain of a psychotic drug Lord named Kane played by Tom Noonan. He's fabulous in it. But here's the here's the thing it's walking around. It's killing everything with Gatling gun, but then it can pop a flat screen TV out of out of the front of its body in on. That screen is a twisted. Uncanny lawnmower. Man, esque CGI face Tom Noonan. Yeah. So so that one really leans into the uncanny valley. Well, yeah. And this, this does point out another thing, which is that there have been plenty of intentional. Realizations of the uncanny valley in film, when when people are trying to create an unsettling unpleasant humanoid for story purposes. Yeah. If it's supposed to be a villain if it's supposed to make people uncomfortable because that's it's role in the plot. So one thing I kind of wish we'd done. I hadn't even thought about this, too. If we could talk to somebody who has intentionally made things in the uncanny valley, what did they do on purpose to get it? There your, your job is to make a humanoid robot or an animated humanoid figure. That intentionally pushes all the bad buttons and clients four down into the valley as it can what do you do that would that would provide some really interesting insight into what it actually takes to get there? Well, you know to connect to video game something that comes up a lot as you see these videos, going viral where it's just a cut scene or a clip from the video game with a humanoid character in a more or less human situation, except something screwed up in the faces missing. So it's just too floating eyeballs and maybe a floating set of digital TV. So the context is key there like this things acting as if it had a face in. It's an environment where I'm supposed to just roll with it. Clearly something's wrong. Yes. Okay. Well as we said, in the last episode, we talked about the origin of the idea, we talked about some evidence for and against the fact that the uncanny valley, actually exist to, to the point that it actually does exist to some extent, maybe not in the naive original sense. Everybody would say where it's just related to the amount of realistic human in figure, but has other dimensions as well. What causes are uncanny valley reaction, obviously, people do have this reaction. They see a humanoid robot or a humanoid animated character the scorpion king, the final fantasy the spirits within characters, whatever it is. And we get. So what causes it? Why do our brains react that way? Is it biological is pure instinct? Is it a learned? Psychological reaction is it part of our culture is something coming from cognitive dissonance of some sort now to go back to the origins of the idea with Massa hero, Maury in nineteen seventy in his original paper on the uncanny valley, Maury speculates that the uncanny valley might be a side effect of the self preservation instinct. In other words, it's a biological adaptation that helps us avoid disease and death. And he starts with the observation that when a normal healthy person becomes sick and eventually dies. They basically tend to slide down from the second peak of the uncanny valley. What we were calling the realism peak the reality peak and slide down into the uncanny valley. It's like they become more like these upsetting puppets, and robots. You know they might suffer. I'm kind of change in their in their the appearance of their skin of their is of their facial expressions. Things. Begin to look off about them. And he writes quote, the sense of Irina is probably a form of instinct, that protects us from proximal rather than distance sources of danger proximal sources of danger include corpses members of different species, and other entities, we can closely approach Distel sources of danger include wind storms and floods. You know, this is interesting the mention of other species. Yeah. I don't know how many films documentaries, I've seen of say lions running around astral habitat, and it's almost never creepy. No, not at all. And yet, and then mostly a lot of times when I'm in zoo, it's not creepy, but there have been times. I take my son to the zoo, a lot here in Atlanta, and their times when we go down to the, the lion enclosure in were the only people there at the zoo, because we live super. Early. And we just were hanging out with a lion on the other side of the glass, you know, perfectly safe. But a deep uneasy his comes over me washes over me, and, and I'm just confronted by the, the, the danger of the situation. Like there's a danger that that goes beyond any reason because I am in close proximity to a dangerous member of, of another species of carnivorous. Predator auditory animal that would in under normal conditions potentially kill me now there is. I would bet a very different kind of sin sation going on inside you when you're in proximity to Alayan. Then when you see a creepy looking humanoid robot or a creepy, looking animation human animating, right, like it's, it's probably exciting the difference between the when, when we talked about the creepy episode the cream the difference between the sort of, like uncomfortable threat ambiguity, Ross's syncing, that there truly is a threat of some kind. Right. And, you know, he's we spoke to illness here, the certainly someone we talked about, like, what happens when a co worker, walks up to you, and they're sniffling more a little bit pale. And they say, let's French we'll, we'll hopefully not. But via there's, there's an at least an initial sense of. Oh, what's wrong with this person? I wonder if what they have is contagious should they even be at work? I hope they cover their mouth when they sneeze because we are going to be concerned on some level with catching whatever they have if it's, it's, it's transmittable, right? And I mean, there are some ways in which we know that seeing illness and other people in say reaction in the disgust response. Right. Yeah. And there's been actually a lot of research on the, on the disgust response, Darwin wrote about it disgust from an evolutionary standpoint is, is all about disease. It voidance you know, like do not eat this. Yeah. Stay away from get away. Yeah. Something's not right here, you might hurt yourself or get sick. So we're talking about sensuous discuss discuss. It's tied to the senses, two cents in formation that we're absorbing this is a deeply seated in the insulin, the area of the brain that, that malfunctions in patients with obsessive compulsive disorder causing him to say you know wash and clean things in Leslie or. Vacuum unrelentingly. So the malfunction of that area gives us gives us a clue into its functionality one. Interesting fact, about disgusting smells, however, is that there's a drop off point for bad smell recognition, but not for good smells. So I think we've all encountered this, where it's that, like, say, say you're in your your office, and you share your office with a cat box, and it's important the cat. Causes quite a stink in there and you register it firstly. Geez. I should stop what I'm doing a clean out that cat box, but you keep working. Yeah. And then after a while you don't smell it anymore, but then maybe you step outside to check the mail, or you go to the grocery store to pick something up or you know, your partner comes home. And when, when you or they enter the room, you go cheese. What happened in here? Right. Did the cat do something again? No, you're just reselling their originally you forgot about it, right? Yeah. The brain kinda decides look at this point, I assume you know that she that the cheese is nasty, and you're not going to eat it or, or that, yes, there is animal poop around here. It's done. It's part, it's warned you, but the good smell will keep resonating because the good smell is Jim probably saying, hey, there's something over here. Delicious to eat some fresh berries or whatnot. And it'll keep saying, hey the varies are still here. Why haven't you eaten yet? There's not a lot of sugar out here. You should. Get at these various while you have a chance. So the, the beautiful remains beautiful, the sweet snowing remained sweet snowing, but something that is disgusting even as discussing thous- Mel, we can grow accustomed to. Okay. So what's the analogy to the uncanny valley here? Well, I think the, the analogy here is that if you have a disgust response to the two visual sense information regarding an individual's appearance. Robots appearance of computer animated characters appearance, there, could there could also be discussed drop off point as you grow accustomed to it. Oh. And that's something that we have seen. We talked about a little bit in the last episode in some people attest that when you spend time around these robots or well, mainly for the robots the, the robots that I seem creepy, they stopped bothering you, right? Become accustomed to them. They're not creepy anymore. I don't so much know if that's always going to be the case for creepy. Looking animated humans? Yeah. But who knows. No. Another thing to keep in mind. Too is the disgust response is going to depend on a number of different factors. Yeah. Some of which are going to be tied to hormonal situations. So for instance, pregnant women are more sensitive to disgust. And this is linked to. There elevated progesterone levels. And of course, they're going to be other factors beyond that for every individual. Yes. So I think that there certainly could be some amount of biological, instinctual response going on in the uncanny valley fact to the extent that it exists, but I think also based on what we've seen so far, that probably does not account for all of it, right. And I think another thing to consider would be going to more more complex sort of cognitive psychology such as cognitive dissonance. Now, if you were to just ask me what I thought was the most likely answer before I got into the research, I would intuitively tend to think that the best answer for what causes the uncanny valley effect, primarily is our inherent discomfort with category confusions. This is something that I think about a lot in, like the creation of monster mythology and stuff like that. We don't like the feeling produced by by things that don't fit into our normal taxonomy for objects in the world. And seemed to violate our Tex tax Nommik ordering system. And this is why I think monsters are so often hybrids of existing things of bulls. Head on a man's body things that defy our intuitive classification rules. They make us uncomfortable and caused a sense of unease leading to this uncanny feeling. So that, that's what I would have intuitively said. Yeah. That makes sense as it will for is. It man. Is it robot? Or is it man? Right. But negative affinity resulting from this difficulty in signing the entity to a category. Is it robot or human, despite my intuitive favor for this explanation? I think it looks like experimental evidence for this is not strong. And in fact, in some ways some of the studies, we've looked at have somewhat invalidated, this, for example, in the last episode at the end, I was talking about that studied by mother and rifling. And it did not find evidence of a strong correlation between. Here's what you notice here the time. It took people to rate, the mechanics, humanoid qualities of a robot and that robot pictures likability. So if you were talking it up to category confusion, you would probably think the robots that people took the longest time to figure out how to rate on the mechanical humanoid scale, and those would be the least likable. Right. Because they're the ones causing the most category confusion bribe, and you could also say, well, you're not maybe having not of not having a visceral gut reaction to them either. You haven't, I think it out and try and, you know, analyze how you feel about it. So, yeah, I'd say that's exactly what we don't like maybe we like to be able to viscerally categorize thing. But, but then the uncanny valley is often or at least in terms of the way you're gonna find it invoked by the average person it's often discussed if it's if it's a visceral reaction, the sort of all kill it. With fire reaction, people might have a hate that saying, yes, I'm not a fan as well, especially when it is applied outside of. Of a fictional connotations. Right. But so they point out the authors point out the they did not find this, they point out that it's just not a fact that the things that took longer to look at and decide where the least likable, though. Well, this is not statistically important just as a point of curiosity, the single face that took the longest to rate on the mechanical versus humanoid quality was also just about the most disliked face in their whole collection of faces. But those just like one outlier overall this did not present as general affect. Other studies have also looked into this. And if failed defined solid evidence for category, confusion as the primary driver of the negative affinity at the bottom of the uncanny valley. So it looks like my intuitions here, I think are wrong, but there's something, this kind of related at as an idea that's been explored. And that is the idea of perceptual mismatch. So several authors have advocated. The idea that this perceptual mismatch could be the primary cause of what we don't like about things that we would intuitively say fall into the uncanny valley. So one piece of research, I want to mention is sort of review by a cat Siri. That is a review of empirical evidence on different uncanny valley, hypotheses support, for perceptual mismatch, as one road to the valley of Irina s- that got to give it a different name in frontiers in psychology in twenty fifteen. So in this study, the authors review present research and claim that. Fair mental research attempting to show the uncanny valley has been inconsistent. They don't exactly say that the uncanny valley doesn't exist, but that it's not as simple as often believed to be something we've been saying, for a while now, it's, it's not that any manipulation of the variable of human likeness leads to uncanny valley effects. So, in other words that the horizontal axis on the graph is more complicated than just the question of how realistically human is. I've seen this come up enough. Now that I'm pretty convinced that, that is not necessarily, the only or even the primary factor here, but they still recognize that there is some kind of a fact here. So they claim that there's evidence against the category confusion basis that we were just talking about. But they claim that there has been good evidence in support of the perceptual mismatch, pastas, and I want to read what they say they say, quote, taken together, the president review suggested that although not any kind of human likeness, manipulation leads to the uncanny valley, the uncanny valley could because by more. Specific perceptual mismatch, conditions, such conditions could originate at least from inconsistent realism levels between individual features and the examples. They give would be like artificial is on a human like face, or the presence of atypical features, such as atypically large is on an otherwise human like character. So what they're saying there is not necessarily that you can't tell whether it's a robot or a human, but that there have been multiple experiments that seem to show, people are unsettled and made unhappy by things where the features on the face, or the features of the figure as a whole are inconsistently realistic, like we're more okay with a robot that's consistently realistic at a certain level. At maybe say seventy percent than something that has is at ninety percent and skin at forty percent. This reminds me a this coming up. In my head. So I don't have to artist's name here. But there isn't there's an artist who's worth made the rounds where they took cartoon characters and they depicted them. Realistically so Simpson. Yes. Homer Simpson with, like pores on his skin, horrible. Yeah. So that comes to mind is kind of possible example of this. Yeah. I think that's a good explanation. So I, I want to get into my main takeaways from looking at the uncanny valley research so far. Maybe you can let me know what you think about this. I'd say, first of all, I think the uncanny valley is a real thing, but it's not as simple as MAURICE original hypothesis would lead you to believe, first of all, people definitely do get creeped out by lots of almost human looking things, but it's not necessarily just that the near failed human realism is, is what makes them unsettling. There other things that appear to be making them. Unsettling though, that the near humanness place, some kind of role and the other big thing is that there appear to be multiple dimensions to explain. When the phenomenon right so synthetic humanoid images, whether robotic or animated offer multiple dimensions of attraction, and revulsion. I think it's possible that there are some biologically triggered effects the appearance of health or disease, the variance of life or death. But then I think there are possibly other things triggered by psychological cognitive dissonance. Probably not category confusion. But, but some good evidence for this idea of the perceptual mismatch, being the cause. And then the final thing is that the uncanny valley effect is context dependent. How long have you been exposed to the image in what setting is it part of a narrative or some other context in which you're being asked to suspend your disbelief or otherwise put yourself in a state of openness rubber what do you think about all this, so far got any disagreement? No. I mean, I feel like my view on it closely lines up with with, with yours year, basically that it's just a there, isn't it? Effect going on. But it's far it's far more nuance than simply, oh, these are these are the factors that make something fall into the uncanny valley. Yeah. Not just how realistically human there's, there's other stuff going on. Right. And not just a mere hybridization was instantly thinking about the board and occasionally the sort of sexy boards this show up in the Star Trek universe. No, like there's, there's clearly category confusion going on there, but they're, they're not depicted as particularly uncanny. Yeah. Like the board Queen was she uncanny kind. I don't know. I mean, even when I'm not a big fan of the way the Borg look. Well. The outside of the bore, you can also think of various sort of hybrid human creatures depicted in fantasy and fiction that, that are created in such a way to the alluring. They managed to. Fetish is the inhuman qualities of them. Yeah. This is the category confusion. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think that there are certain qualities of the human appearance that if altered are much more significant in terms of our affects response than others. And so it could be an I'm just making this up. I don't know if this is true, but that like getting the getting the size of the is wrong could quite easily lead to a disgust response and revulsion, but getting the size of the nose wrong wouldn't does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Or just thinking of is like definitely making the is inappropriately large leaves. Oh creepy factor. And this is often employed, I instantly think of the vampire movie what twenty thirty days of night is that the name of it. Oh, something like that. Yeah. Where they did some sort of digital affect the I don't remember the number some number of days of PD days of night, I didn't actually see the. Trailers were were certainly interesting. But likewise, if you just take an individual and have them wear blackout, contact lenses. Yeah. Like that is often sometimes played up for craziness, but a lot of times it's played up for to be alluring. You'll have male or female characters that are otherwise dressed in some alluring fashion. But they have blacked out is. And it's who it's kind of like supernatural sexy cool as opposed to just like, oh my God. Why, why your eyes pits of darkness? Yeah. The maybe that's just me. Okay. Well, I think we should take a quick break. And when we come back, we will go beyond the uncanny valley. During our stint on the planet. Humans have made a lot of stuff some of it is treasured, some of it is junked some of it is just forgotten about how do we place value in the things that we create what deserves just one more look before it vanishes into the past these questions, underpin the new podcast ephemeral host Alex Williams guides you through a wasteland of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases, not saved at all part, history podcast part, sound, collage ephemeral features interviews with historians collectors authors, and more episodes, piece together, stories lost time, missing chapter of American music history, a decade's worth of original television, broadcast, only once in a mystery caught on tape that seemed unsolvable a and if you listen carefully, you might hear a JoAnne me as well. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. We did do something. Yeah. We sure do. But of course, this is by Alex Williams producer who has worked on this very podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Alex's. A longtime collaborator and, and friend of the show. So don't miss a federal listen on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts, and learn more at ephemeral dot show. All right. We're back. Okay. So Robert, I can recall discussions, going back for years about whether we're gonna make it out of the uncanny valley, in the realm of robotics or animation. And I think from here on, I want to focus primarily on animation just just to keep us focused and I think they're actually two separate questions, here, assuming that the uncanny valley is to some extent, a coherent idea. We've already explained all the ways in which it's wet obviously way more complicated than the naive popular culture culture understanding of it, but. The two big questions. Number one, can we make realistic looking humanoid characters that aren't creepy? I think the answer here is. Yes. I think it's not a two dimensional graph, I think you can make things that aren't quite photo realistic, but look, realistic that aren't creepy current generation video games have been doing this. And as I mentioned in the last episode, I think that there are tricks to doing this. It's apparently in cheating like the right combination of realistic traits, and unrealistic traits that maybe you would just land on by doing trial and error in design over time. You would never mistake these characters for photographs of real humans, but they're also not cartoony. They've got this feeling of really real ish Ness. Yeah. No, what I mean, but they've they've, they've attained sort of generally acceptable plateau of realistic affect, but they're not skewing into these different danger zones, adjacent photo realism where the shortcomings become creepy. Off pudding, and we don't like it. Then there would be another question. And that's just can we make animated characters that are robustly indistinguishable from human. Like can we get all the way up the other side of the mountain up to the peak of reality and last week, if you'd asked me my personal answer would have been no not yet, but I think that's actually not as clear cut as we would. I guess, because you think that perhaps many of the humans Lucy on TV actually, digital creations. Oh, I know for a fact that that who's that guy that Jimmy Fallon guy. Oh, yeah. Jimmy Fallon might be a computer generated our own Android. Yeah. That is not a person. Yeah. He has been generated by computer. That's in Palo Alto, California. It's a supercomputer. I mean, it's a really good computer but yeah, well, I feel the same way about Michael fast bender and granted, it's complicated by the fact that he has. He has a thing for playing endroits recently. But at times you. Like no. He's just a little too handsome. There's something in human about this, this man's handsomeness in his charm. So I want to talk about one thing that is that has given me pause on this subject, and it's going back to what we talked about it at the beginning of the last episode. Rogue one. Yes. So back to the GI grain, moth Tarkhan when I saw when I first saw rogue one, I liked a lot of things about the movie, but I did not really like the Tarkhan the almost Peter Cushing was very, very good. And I really mean that I mean shockingly good. But still not quite real to me, still kind of distracting because of how slightly off it was, I, I would not have mistaken it for a real person. But the other day I was talking in the office to Holly Frye who is highly Star Wars fan. She's, she's one of the hosts of stuff you missed in history classes, one of our one of our podcasts and podcasts family here. Yes, she is hands down the most Star Wars knowledgeable person in the office in an office full of nerds. I should point out that Holly has slash had like a golden ticket to go. See rogue one anytime if you wanted to that the what are you serious serious? This is legit, where that come from. I don't know. I don't I'm not, I'm not at that level of fandom where I'm even offered such things. I so if you wanna have a funny experience up to Holly and just like ask some really obscure random question about Star Wars where you think it could not be possible that there's an actual answer to this, like, oh, that storm trooper on the left. Where did he what planet was he born on Holly? We'll have an answer. She'll be like, oh, that was actually addressed in dialogue in the Greek dub of this episode of clone wars. So Holly has amazing Star Wars knowledge she is super fun, too. To about the Star Wars universe. But anyway, Holly pointed out that, while a lot of people like me were saying that the CGI Tarkhan was a few pixel short of escaping the valley. Then again, there were plenty of people, including some older people that she knew who couldn't tell that it wasn't a real person. They literally they couldn't tell while I'm worried about my viewing upcoming viewing of the film because I've, I've been preconditioned to have a certain response to the to the Tarkhan bought here. Oh, I'm sorry, that we've had this discussion before you were able to see the movie for yourself. Interesting being preconditioned will, I go into it expecting an abomination and the like, but the level of detail will overwhelming and it won't matter or am I going to go in there and nothing is gonna fool me because I'm going to be looking for the cracks, you know, I can I can put myself in a mindset, okay, where I think it's possible, I might not have known that it. Was a siege effect. If I wasn't familiar with what to look for like, if I didn't watch a lot of movies that had CGI FX in them. And if I didn't complain about CGI a lot. I'm sorry guilty is chart and guilty of that. If I wasn't aware that Peter Cushing was dead, if it wasn't if I wasn't sort of prepared to see a lot of high-tech CGI by virtue of the fact that I'm sitting in the theater for a Lucasfilm movie, all those things if you took away all the context in my pre knowledge, I'm very might possibly have fallen for it. I think I might have just it manages gone pass me if I was absorbed in the story, I might have thought, yes, kinda strange looking dude, but it's just to do. And I think it gets better or worse, depending on your perspective. So I have an October twenty sixteen news piece from BBC Asia here about a character called cya a computer animated character created by the Japanese husband and wife graphic design team Terry Yuki. And UK Ishikawa, and I mentioned this one in particular because before we did this, I went, and I looked up, what are considered a lot of the most realistic CGI character creations the most impressive animated ones this one came up, and I think this was the most impressive to me. It's probably the most photo real computer generated human, I've come across so far, so cya is supposed to be a seventeen year old Japanese student and the creators have been working on her design for a couple of years now. And is versions of cya have been posted on the internet people have widely reacted with comments. Like I can't believe that's not a real person. And I kind of have to agree. I'm looking at these pictures of her. There are a couple of different generations of design up. The most recent one just looks like a photograph of a person. Yeah. I, I can't tell that, that is not a person. I, I have no recourse to critical faculties in my mind that would say now here's where you can tell that. That's not a real person now at the same time, I do have to come back to come in a made earlier that this is also. It's a it's a pretty face. It's very standard face like this. This is leading lady material. Whereas, I think it gets more problematic when you look at character actor type figures such, Peter Cushing. Exactly. They have such a distinctive face. Yes. In Peter Cushing. So this is a one thing that helps I think is that it's a young character who has very smooth features. Peter Cushing has a lot of cracks in crags. Right. Lot of wrinkles. And I think that may actually be simply having more texture on your face could make it much more difficult to make a photo real copy of you. That that's. Barely possible, but to get back to cya. So in October of last year, the artists debuted the first animated clip of cya, which they created using motion, capture technology and they booted at Japanese Consumer Electronics Show, I, I watched this footage, and I think more is distinction about having different standards for motion and still images does apply. Because while with the still image, I can't tell that's not a real person with the short animated clip. I can I can tell it's not a real person, but it's still very, very impressive. Not as absolutely photo. Real as the still images. But I don't know. I wonder to what extent this gap is just that motion animation is a bigger technical project takes more investment in money and all that. And to what extent the gap is within the viewers mind, essentially to what extent it's caused by the fact that the climb out of the uncanny valley is. Steeper. If you're moving. Now, I know we're not talking about robots here. But this, of course, this brings up the thought that as we're is we attempt to conquer this in the realm of humanoid robotics. Yeah, you're going to never have situations where. Oh, it looks just like a person of its walking down the street, but it climb stairs. Yeah. There you go. He's not necessarily going to add to nine. In the air. But maybe there would be something telling like, oh, it looks like a human most of the time, but they're going to be certain movements certain environmental reactions that are just not going to hold up to scrutiny. Right. So I don't know looking at these things looking at Tarkhan in rogue, one looking at cya I think it's clear that we're getting closer and closer to really bridging the gap on indistinguishable photo real humanity in computer animation, whether you'd call that an uncanny valley, or not obviously, this is a related, but maybe different issue, what we're definitely drawing near is that peak of reality, where there are synthetically generated images of humans that, you can't tell from the real thing, right in since things in the uncanny valley are creepy. I think we usually just assume that overcoming it as a good thing, right? Like designs, getting better in kinda cool that we can generate these photo real images without without actually having to photograph someone. But I'm not so sure that's a good thing. I think we should maybe think about the implications of this, like, what would happen in a world where human simulations, especially computer animation, can reliably climb up that second peak. So we are going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we will go beyond the uncanny valley. Hi, I'm Chelsea handler. And I'm launching a brand new podcast with iheartradio called life will be the death of me. And I'm gonna talk to all these different people, my BFF Mary McCormack. That's what we should call. My book tour the apology, or great idea. Sorry. Everyone on this whole podcast should be called. It should be called with the orange because of the orange theme of the book Archie. Glad I went to therapy. Life will be the death of me with Chelsea handler. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, we're back. You know, I'm glad you brought up this idea of is it a bad thing that a good thing. It does remind me of fabulous book that came out a few years back. I think just referenced it in our sex pots episode titled the wind up girl by Paolo back loopy. It's a near future science fiction tale, just really a wonderful novel, very fun. But the wind up girl in question is a essentially a sex, pot character. Okay. Goes you know that ends up rebelling and you have sort of a typical of narrative with her, but they call her windup girl because she's she's, she's very convincing as a humanoid, except that her skin pores, too small. And she has an intentionally herky-jerky movement to, to she walks around that they did so that she could not be mistaken as a person. Oh, so that so that apparently like all the I think they were called the new people at some ends in some cases. So. The new people could not be mistaken for the old people. Whoa, it reminds me of how they had add artificial sounds to electric cars for safety purposes. Elliot's the cars are too quiet. They can really sneak up on you from behind, so they had to make them rumble little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's an app comparison. So here's a question for you. Albert what is the gold standard of evidence that somebody did something imagine you're on a jury? I'm the defendant. I've been accused of offering a cash bribe to a police officer if she'll let me borrow her gun for five minutes. She says, I did it. I plead not guilty. What, what's the best evidence to convince you that I really did that? Well, it's not human memory because if touched on many times before human memory is foul and in its legitimate problem, when it comes to, to I witness testimony. Yeah. But when the eyewitness is a video camera digital camera that has photographic evidence, as well to, to certain degrees. Like this has been held up as the gold standard right in assuming the footage is clear enough that the individuals face is visible all of that. Even in our science fiction. Right. We have so many examples of Star Trek again they would be seen where we're card would command we zoom in and enhance. Yeah. And it was never questioned that there were any problems with the enhancing of the image. Right. It was just something that was done. It was like, oh, yeah, the images enhanced and then we see exactly the killer is, so we should look at this, this booming new research field. I shouldn't say booming. I just mean there are some papers on it. Okay. Called facial reenactment. So this employs some of the same techniques that you would see used in, in studios, if pe- if people are doing motion capture for CGI characters in movies, and video games. You have an actor performer, who puts on special gear and a special environment surrounded by lights and cameras and the performer acts out motions these motions are captured from multiple angles and different lighting conditions, and then they're translated by computer into the motions of CGI character, you could make a CGI me that. Was doing all the same things I did with my body. But what if instead of a CGI character you used captured motion to manipulate existing video, or images of a real person, not a CGI character? This technology is already in development today. And one example is the research being done under the heading as I said a facial reenactment. There are a couple of papers along with accompanying video demonstrations by a group of researchers based out of Stanford out of the max plank institute for informatics and the university of Erlanger Nuremberg. And in their own words, quote, we present a method for the real time transfer of facial expressions from an actor in a source video to an actor in target video thus enabling the ad hoc control of the facial expressions of the target actor. So if you haven't seen video of this, you should look it up, try facial reenactment video if you have. Efficient sample video of your target. You can use a regular camera to project new facial expressions, including mouth movements which form the shapes of words onto your your target in your video, so I can take video of Robert talking, if I had all this technology if I could take video of Robert talking, and then I could fill myself saying Halloween five is the best entry in the Halloween franchise and then map that onto Roberts face to make his lips say those words to make his face move along with my face, as it's being recorded in the demonstrations of this, it looks nearly photo real. They do it with with public figures making the move. Their faces around move their lips to say things in some cases. I think the average observer already would not be able to tell the difference in this video. And in fact, the similar thing appears to be happening with voice this thing. You might have read about last year. This thing adobe VO co where they came out with this announcement that adobe working on software, where you can take a twenty minute sample of your audio to learn from. If you've got a recording, somebody talking for twenty minutes, I can take it make a recording of you saying things you never said in your own voice. I want to, I seem to remember that before his death. Roger Ebert was involved with project with some of this technology being that. Of course, he had lost his his availability to talk right due to illness. But there was so much. Roger Ebert, audio out here from all of his years as film critic and on TV personality that they had this. They had everything they needed to enable him to say anything new. Yeah. And that, that explores the totally non nefarious aspect of this. I mean, I, I don't think people who are pursuing these lines of research are just trying to create a world where we can fake video evidence writings, but wouldn't that be a wonderful thing for somebody who lost their capacity? For speech. They had recordings of their voice to be able to create a text to speech voice box that could speak with their own voice. That's amazing. That's kind of beautiful, but the there are these other ways of looking at this, and the authors also that they point out that, you know, the, the in their own defense. They're like, look, we're not trying to create a world where people can fake video. We also try to show how you can detect altered video. Okay. So that's another thing. They're trying to explore and make public because you know they're not the only people pursuing this research, obviously, people all over the place are doing stuff like this, and stuff like this has been in the has been in use in the movie industry for years. Yeah. I mean it makes me think that what you would need to go for is the equivalent of a watermark. I don't know exactly what that watermark, would be. And what form it would take. But it does make me think, well, we're gonna reach the point where any kind of footage has to have the watermark of authenticity. Otherwise, doubt, will be. Cast on it. Yeah. I I I'm concerned about the idea of living in a world where you can make very convincing looking fake video evidence of things. Yeah. And not just because of the specific example of somebody can make a video of me. Or somebody, I like you know, saying or doing something they didn't do. It's not just the specifics, it's the general degrading of our trust in the ability to look at things and know that they're true. Yeah. I mean, we look at the, the current news cycle and has been a lot of discussion about the reliability information of so-called, fake news. Yeah. The idea that you reap de reach this point when at nobody knows what to trust anymore. You end up distrusting nothing. And you already know this, because you don't trust any weird looking picture of somebody, you see right? Because you know what can be done with Photoshop, right? We're already there with still images. Photoshop is his his basically mini context come of verb. For for the distortion of truth. But what, what if we had Photoshop to undermine moving video evidence to the same extent that Photoshop has undermined still images? I mean, this is what a lot of these viral, fake news stories are based on is a photo shopped image, if you go to snow peas or something, and you look at what a lot a lot of what they're thinking is. It's just an image that claims to be real of somebody doing something. And they have to track down where it came from. Yeah. It's difficult to imagine what that would slash. We'll be like when we reach that point to where there's video, even digital footage is no longer the gold standard. It was. I mean, I think it's actually very important project to maintain a version of the uncanny valley to, to help people find a way to all two separate real video evidence from fake video evidence of things to understand that there are things you can look for the. Separate real moving imagery from falsified or synthetic moving imagery. Now one way you can approach this is to do what the authors of this research? I was talking about do is they say, look, here are things that are signs that video has been manipulated, and that's one thing, and maybe there'll be a lot of experts on this in the future. It could be a whole field of people who are just there to have expertise in authenticating purportedly real video of you doing things or not then on the other hand, we could hope that there is, in fact, an adaptive response in our discernment in general. And this is where I want to go to the concept of, of the uncanny wall. So twenty eleven paper in the international journal of arts and technology authored by ten well grim. Sean Williams offers this. Interesting counter hypothesis to the uncanny valley, and I want to emphasize again, we've sort of shifted back and forth between. In the uncanny valley itself in terms of what causes negative affinity and then over slightly, just to the issue of nearing photo realism or not. So keep in mind, the difference in those subjects, but they, they propose this idea of the uncanny wall to put it succinctly. They propose that quote, increasing technological sophistication in the creation of realism for human like virtual characters is matched by increasing technological discernment on the part of the viewer. In other words, as humanoid characters become more real our standards for what looks realistic go up. And I do think there, I just anecdotally, personally, I think there's some support for this and I kind of hope this is true. So we can avoid this world where all video evidence is in question because I immediately think right now I've got I've got Inten a for photo shopped images run. Unlike? I had ten years ago, I think stuff that would look obviously Photoshop to me today would've fooled me ten years ago. I think I've simply adapted and another thing is it makes me flash back to the early days of CGI and movies, and like the thirty two bit video game era or think about like PlayStation one games. Yeah. Now back then I remember looking at games for the original, PlayStation, and thinking, wow. That looks so real. Oh, yeah. And you try and play him now. And it's painful. Yeah. You can't block polygons people's faces have all these sharp corners. It's, it's hilarious. Yeah. There was some kind of geometrical nightmare world. Everything was taking place in is just lots of sharp angles of but at the time, it looked so real to me, and another fun trick is go back and read movie reviews for movies with bad CGI from the nineties, professional movie reviewers. The time were often praising the. Effects, one example, is like the mortal Kombat movie, the original mortal Kombat million this, you can find reviews at the time, where people are like, well, the stories thin immature, but dazzling special effects now, even mentioning this special effects conjures kind of delirious hilarity. You just start laughing. When you think about the CGI in mortal Kombat, we having said, the Gora puppet was above reproach feel good. It did have kind of nasty beady eyes kind of Kripke keeper, ask. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was like a very it was like a bloated buffed up Kripke the buff tricky for. But yeah it's so ugly. It provokes uncontrollable laughter. But at the time, people were like dazzling amazing. So it makes me think that I hope that there is something to this. This idea that these authors have that as things continue to chase photo realism as synthetic imagery of humans gets closer and closer to the real thing. We just get more and more. Attuned to the minute problems with him with them and never really get fully fooled. Well, I have two thoughts here, one on the, the whole watermark, thing. Maybe it would be some sort of a bitcoin type authentication system that would be in place. Yeah. The other is maybe you have to go beyond the real, maybe say, for a head of state to appear in a video, and it'd be authentic. They have to appear as an as a computer generated avatar so advance than it is that it is beyond the ability of any like non-state production company to create like something, I saw something that at this point in what would be their past. I cannot even conceive off, like I don't know like a five dimensional unfolding CGI guide being because how is going to fake that you can fake a person? But good luck faking the fifth, dimensional avatar Vishnu. Okay, like like the algorithms for faking a person with a lot of photo and audio visual cues to sample from, if you've got a lot of footage out there you could simulate that person. But you couldn't simulate this brand new creation. That is it requires you know, supercomputers to. Generate and. Yeah. And it was probably built from the bottom up with completely alien physiology and just a thought. That's kind of a crazy idea. But I like it. That's what I'm here for crazy ideas, I don't know, if you got anything else, Robert any anything else, you can think of, to save us from the future of synthetic human imagery, you know, I could sit around here all day and talk about CGI monsters in uncanny valley, and films and video games whatnot, but you don't have to, to save that for another time. Maybe save some of it for trailer. Talk with floor. If you're listening to this on a Thursday, hopefully, you can tune in tomorrow around eleven AM on our Facebook page. Unlike our Facebook page while you're at it follow us there, but tune into a little discussion of trailers that are associated with the uncanny valley. Oh, yeah. And in the meantime, head over to stuff to blow your mind dot com. That's the mothership, that's we'll find all of our blog posts are podcast, our videos and links out to various social media accounts, such that Facebook page or the Twitter page, Instagram. Count you name it. And if you want to get in touch with us directly as always, you can Email us at blow the mind at how stuff works dot com. For more on this and vows winds of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com? Time for Lincoln ad so a lot of snow about linked in by adding connections. And keeping with classmates in that kind of thing keeping up with co workers, but did you know, that there are twenty million jobs on Lincoln, and there are people who can help you find them people, people who give career advise people who are hiring, or people who can introduce you to the companies, you want to work with find the job meant for you at Lincoln dot com slash jobs. That's Lincoln dot com slash jobs.

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SYMHC Classics: A Brief History of Time Capsules

Stuff You Missed in History Class

36:52 min | 1 year ago

SYMHC Classics: A Brief History of Time Capsules

"Hey, everybody, I would like to tell you about a new podcast called sleep. Walkers. You might not care about AI, but AI cares about you. And this is a show that highlights the significance of stories about artificial intelligence by providing compelling content from the pioneering thinkers, scientists and engineers connected to it sleep walkers, answers questions, like how can AI stop somebody from joining ISIS? What happens to doctors, if an AI can diagnose illnesses better than they can? What is a song written by AI sound like you can tune into sleep? Walkers, a brand new podcast that airs every Thursday listen and follow I heart radio app, or subscribe, wherever you listen to podcasts. Happy Saturday, everyone. Our colleague, Alex Williams has a brand new podcast coming out called ephemeral, and like its name suggests ephemeral is all about things that are disappearing or have disappeared forgotten people in places and things that were barely saved or not saved at all. So we've chosen today Saturday classic to go along with that seen it is our brief history of time capsules from may of twenty fifteen one thing to note is that the mistakes that we make on this podcast are not federal at all. They last forever. And in this episode we made it sound like two different time capsules came out of the old state house in Boston Massachusetts. We made it sound that way because I thought that was how it happened did not the time capsule that was in a lion's head statue was from the old state house. And then the one associated with Paul revere came from current state house on beacon hill, and stay tuned at the end of the show for a little peek at ephemeral. Welcome to stuff you missed in history class, a production of I heart radio. How stuff works? Hello. And welcome to the podcast, Tracy Wilson, I'm Holly fry. So back in October two thousand fourteen time capsule was removed from a lion statue that normally is on top of the old state house in Boston, Massachusetts. The statue had been taken off of the roof for restoration, and while they were at it restores decided to check on rumors that there was a time capsule in its head. This is something that had been completely unknown until a couple years before, and they wanted to see if it was really there. It was they used a fiber optic camera to make sure that it was really there. And then they very carefully removed it and during a private opening archivists lifted the lid and immediately realized that what was in there was just packed way too tightly to be taken out safely in the studio where the statue was being restored. So they took the time capsule to the bus donations society's archives center, where they. Could really take their time removing the contents and a more controlled environment. Holly, remember this? Yes, do. Right. Because when we put this story on our Facebook, people got so mad. They really did. There were some very, you know, immediate response sort of anger notes. Yep. So this time capsule had been inside the statue for one hundred thirteen years, but people felt like that was not nearly long enough for it to be opened. And then other people interpreted this decision to take the box somewhere. More controlled to do the actual unpacking. They thought this was a sign that incompetent amateurs had been trusted with delicate task, which was absolutely not true. It was somebody with a master of library science and in archives management like that people also argued that they should have just had the whole statue removed somewhere safer or the that there was a lot of questions about why the time capsule needed to be removed in the first place. A lot of. People wanted it and its contents to go back where it was. So then another time capsule was removed from the old state house, a couple of months later and this one dated back to seventeen ninety five and it had been put behind the cornerstone by Paul revere, then governor of Massachusetts Sam Adams and Colonel William Scully, and so based on what had happened with that first time capsule. We were really careful about what details, we included when you put it up on our Facebook. We noted that it had been taken out as part of a repair to a water leak behind the cornerstone, and we specified that professional professional conservators had removed it, and that it was going to be x Rayed and open under controlled conditions, and that it was going to be put back after its contents had been displayed for the public for awhile Holly. Also, remember this. Yes. Because people were still so mad. They were there's a fascinating reaction. I think that people have with time capsules in it, it, I couldn't break down the psychology of it, because it it varies a lot. But there were definitely some angry responses. Yeah. People were still really mad this time they were mad that time capsule was going to be put back which was what people had wanted to happen with the other time capsules. So at this point I kind of never wanted to mention time capsules in the context of the show again, which is one of the reasons why neither time capsule was in the unearthed in two thousand fourteen episodes. But then this April, I got the chance to actually see the contents of that cornerstone time capsule, while they were on display at the museum of fine arts Boston. And there was literally align all the way around the room to see it. It's stretched way out into joining galleries was just licking this little display case that was full of coins and newspapers. Part of this is because the time capsule was really small. So there was a little display case people were waiting to see into you. But part of it is because people care apparently care a whole lot about time capsules. Yeah. And I feel compelled to mention that this sort of interesting discussion that sometimes got a little heated on our Facebook page, that is not the only place that these were happening if you looked at news sites that were posting about it. Their comments sections were having very similar things play out. Yeah. There was this angriness everywhere. So we're going to talk about time capsules today. Maybe explore some of the reasons people get so excited about them. And the tradition of burying stuff really goes back almost to the beginning of human history. The most obvious example, is that most of the world's cultures have at some point, buried artifacts letters trinkets and other objects as parts of funeral. Rituals people have also been deliberately placing objects into building foundations and cornerstones for thousands of years, for example in Mesopotamia common practice was to bury objects and building foundations for the purpose of sanctifying the space and protecting it or maybe to commemorate something that was related to the building, or its builders or where it was being built, this practice has continued throughout the ages, and all over the world, and it has also included embedding items of religious significance in church, cornerstones, and the idea that these deposits might one day be discovered. Again, has also cropped up at various times throughout history, for example, around the seventh century, BC e Assyrian king as her. Heaven had relics and clay, tablets put in the foundations of monuments saying that he quote deposited them in the foundations and left them for future times. But all of these burials of stuff are a little different from the idea of a time capsule. Although people of the past did, sometimes think or write about how future generations might someday stumble upon their funerary deposits, and their foundational deposits, which are what those things are called. That was really secondary to their purpose. They were being buried for some other reason, and the idea that somebody might come dig them up later was secondary to that. But in a time capsule, on the other hand, people intentionally gather in store objects with the specific plan that someone else is going to open them later. And usually there's a specified timeframe for what later means and for the time capsule purists, it's only a true time capsule, if there's a specific end date for the thing to be opened again. This means that while a letter from a six year old. His or her future self to be open ten years. Later is a time capsule according to this definition, but a giant room of artifacts to be opened at some undetermined time in the future. Technically isn't neater are time capsules that include those same sorts of things, but our shot into space to be when they opened by aliens. Maybe so basically the end date is really like the definer of what isn't isn't a time capsule. Another aspect of time capsules is that they're preserving usually a snapshot of everyday life when they were sealed and while there are definitely time capsules that have a much grander scope than that. They almost always also include things like coins newspapers photographs letters from notable people and everyday items that are kind of meant to give future generations, a glimpse of what life used to be like this, including of everyday life. Snapshots is also why accidental preservations of everyday life. Like say the ruins of Pompeii are sometimes described as time capsules. And although there are time capsules buried all over the world. The practice is largely a tradition that came from and flourished in the United States, and there are a couple of reasons for this, a big one is that the first most famous examples of time capsules which we're going to talk about in just bid, we're all developed in the United States, but sociologists and psychologists also theorized that another reason that the United States has been so intent on encapsulating history to send it to the future is that as a nation, the history of the United States is pretty short, that were definitely people in North America long before the United States was thing. But European presence in North America only goes back a few hundred years. So the theory goes that people kind of subconsciously, once you instantly create something that count says history in the eyes of future generations, and we're going to talk about some specific examples of time capsules after we have a brief or from a sponsor. This episode is brought to you by Orkan. You knew how you're sometimes living your best life in your house, and then something goes horribly awry, because some creature has shown up that you did not invite. I've been there it's not the white full, whether that means that answer shown up in your kitchen, or there are maybe if you're living in the South Africa, there's always the potential for a cockroach to show up and ruin your day or heaven forbid, something like a rat just arrives. And they, you know, want you to make them some sort of delicious meal. Don't let pests through when your moment, get an organ TEK out to your house tomorrow, and they will protect your time and your temper. Visit Orkan dot com slash history. To say fifty dollars on your first general pest service with the promo code pod fifty. I wanted to talk about the first time capsule to start off with and the first time we know of that people seal things away with the specific intent that. They would be brought out again at a particular date in the future was for the centennial exhibition in Philadelphia Pennsylvania, and that took place in eighteen seventy six it had a century safe that was meant to be opened in nineteen seventy six there might be earlier examples of time, capsules out there that in addition to having been buried or sealed away also had a specified, opening date. But this is the first one we actually have documentation of in the century safe looked just like a safe, but with a purple velvet lining, which is a detail I personally love this safe contained photographs a book on temperance and signatures of visitors to the centennial exhibition among other things. It was stored under the steps of the Pennsylvania state capitol and. Opened in nineteen seventy six as intended, a new capsule buried in nineteen. Seventy six is to be opened in twenty seventy six even though the century safe was the first true time capsule, the word time capsule had not been coined yet. That did not happen until nineteen thirty eight leading up to the nineteen thirty nine world's fair. G Edward Pendrey, who was a public relations executive for Westinghouse Electric and manufacturing gets the credit for coming up with the term also for a while because of the shape of what they were building you thought about calling it a time bomb. Kinda glad that didn't take off before the word time capsule was coined people normally call these sorts of things safes or boxes or similar generic terms, Westinghouse was involved with all of this, because it was constructing the physical container for the world's fair time capsule, which was to stay underground until sixty nine thirty nine otherwise known as five thousand years from its start date because these capsules were supposed to stay buried for so long. The containers had to be impervious to just about any kind of damage that you could think of the end result was a seven and a half foot long or two point two meter torpedo like tube made of a non-corrosive alloy with several interior layers meant to protect the contents. These contents included cigarettes, men's and women's crew Ming tools magazines and samples of seeds and, and fabrics. There's also a twenty two thousand page microfilm essay and there are letters from such figures as Albert Einstein, and then MIT president, Carl T Compton. There was huge huge fanfare around the burying of this time capsule and there's also a total replica of it, and its contents at the George Westinghouse museum running concurrently, with the creation of the first Westinghouse time capsule was the crypt of civilization. And I know a lot about this one. This is an incredibly huge in-involved time capsule at oglethorpe university, which is here in Atlanta, and where I used to work, oglethorpe, president Thornwell Jacobs, lead this project, which is an attempt to document all of human history. The idea is that future archaeologists could just consult the material from this vault instead of having to painstakingly. Recreate and idea of how the world worked by piecing together information from lots of different dig sites. The crypt of civilization today is on a lower level of the administration building at oglethorpe. And in addition to all the physical items, which are inside, which are a lot thing is enormous, it contains more than six hundred thousand pages of microfilm, which document all sorts of historical information. So this crypt was sealed on may twenty fifth nineteen forty and it's not supposed to be opened again until the year eighty one thirteen and this is six thousand one hundred seventy seven years from when it was held up. The idea is that as of nineteen forty there were six thousand one hundred seventy seven years of recorded history. This crypt access like a mid point between the beginnings of recorded history and six thousand one hundred seventy seven years in the future. When people can just open this thing up to find out all about the past year. Yeah. And it's just a big door a big metal door that you walk by, when you're in the admin building, and it has been grieving on it, but it's just the door. That's there. The never opens because people were inspired by the first Westinghouse time capsule and oglethorpe crypt of civilization, the time capsule heyday really spanned from nineteen thirty five to nineteen eighty two because of the centennial exhibition one hundred years became popular time limit for time capsules to remain sealed. There are also some connections between that first Westinghouse time capsule and the crypt at oglethorpe. So g Edward Pendrey had actually called for public support of the crypt project as it was being developed, and conversely, one of the letters inside the first Westinghouse time capsule is a letter from Ben oglethorpe president Thornwell Jacobs, so that. There was a lot of crossover between those two projects. Which I think is pretty cool Roseau now get just talk about some other notable examples of time capsules, and this is not at all an exhaustive list, not even of the ones that are really big and impressive Westinghouse created a second time capsule for the nineteen sixty eight New York, world's fair and it's almost like an update to the first one if the exact same size and shape and it's buried about ten feet away, but its contents include things that didn't exist when the previous time capsule had been put into the ground includes birth control pills, an artificial heart valve credit cards information about atomic energy and other more modern as of nineteen sixty eight stuff both the first Westinghouse time capsule and the second one are supposed to be opened in sixty nine thirty nine together so that second one is sort of like a supplement to the first one rather than a whole separate thing with a separate opening date. Two identical time capsules were made for expo seventy in Sakai Japan. And one of these is to stay sealed for five thousand years, and the other is intended to be opened every one hundred years after an initial opening in the year, two thousand and one reason for this plan is to check in and make sure everything's okay? But the other is to update the time capsules content. So it kind of becomes an ongoing living archive record and these time capsules are shaped like kettles and filled. They way two point one two metric tons in their purpose was to detail in a very broad cross-section life in nineteen seventy which means that they include lots and lots of everyday items. There's also historical information including leaflets films and other recordings including artifacts from the bombing of Harare. And you can actually see the total contents of all these things online. They are available, and there is so much stuff jammed into them. The I. The I really I had this moment where I was flummoxed because I stumbled across this thing that had, you know, a con a comprehensive list of everything that's in there, and they're pictures of a lot of it, and I am used to when you see older pictures of things that were taken with earlier digital cameras. They look kind of terrible and I had this moment ride just forgot that there were, there were film cameras in nineteen seventy, you can, you can scan pictures from nine hundred seventy or film. Seventy that's still exists that didn't go away. So I had this moment, but I feel silly confessing, but I still want to confess where I was like. Wow. Where did they get all these pictures from? All right cameras. They were still thing. It had been a long day. There is a one hundred year time capsule that was created in Juneau Alaska in nineteen ninety four. And this one is huge because it was created using thousands of items that were collected from Juno residents. It's housed in a converted lobby of a government building, and you can see some of the contents through to windows that, go to the outside. It's also with electric lights that can be changed from the outside, so it's it can be lit while still being totally sealed up. That's a pretty cool feature. There's a fortieth anniversary time castle that was buried in Disneyland in Anaheim, California on July seventeenth of nineteen ninety five, and that is to be opened on that same date in the year, twenty thirty five here's hoping, I'm there for that. Yeah, it was like his hotly gonna go. It does look like a castle, which is why it is called that. Really a hundred years is a pretty standard dot I'm for a time capsule now. And then we have these really fascinating millennial ones that go on for a thousand years and beyond. But when the internet took off and things started changing at our super rapid pace MIT made a time capsule of the online. World circa, nineteen ninety nine at the Sloan school of management, and that one was to be opened after five years because the internet was evolving so rapidly. Aside from those that we've just mentioned all over the world. There are boxes of documents coins and household items just waiting to be dug up and we'll talk about what can go wrong on that front after we have another quick word from a sponsor. So the fad truth is, as much as people like the idea of burying things for posterity a lot of time capsules just fail. In some cases, they haven't even made it to their burial or their ceiling. There was a time capsule, made for the US bicentennial that went on a national tour with signatures from all over the country that we're supposed to be collected and put inside and it made it through that whole tour, but then was stolen from the truck at the burial site before it could actually be buried capsules in their contents. Have also been lost. Thanks to leaks demolitions, and people just forgetting that they were buried in the first place or that they existed at all. So in addition to trying to preserve all of human history up to nineteen forty in the crypt of civilization. Oglethorpe is also trying to keep track of all those time capsules so that nothing else gets lost, and that's via the international time capsule society which was established in nineteen ninety one. Of the reasons that they really wanted to get that time capsule out of the lion said, statue was because they did not really know how it had been packaged and weather everything, and there had already been destroyed because of water, which it hadn't, which was great. But there's also the fact that a lot of times what's inside a typical time capsule turns out to be really underwhelming. Once it's opened the very nature of time capsules means that a lot of times, they're full of newspapers and coins and photographs people letters from people who were famous one hundred years ago, but nobody knows who they are now and basically obsolete junk, there's even a nineteen ninety nine article in the onion, titled newly unearthed time capsule. Just full of uses old crap, which made fun of both peoples responses to what you, usually find when you open a time capsule and the types of things that people select to put in there like, there's, there's several layers of humor going on. This is actually kind of funny to me. How often people open a time capsule and like no one is impressed with what was inside because it's just newspapers coins. And yet when the time capsule was made there were knocked down drag out fights about what to put inside of their go. Yeah. As angry about what to put in time capsules is they were with all over Facebook posts about out 'cause they wanna make sure the exact correct picture of that time period is created with the contents. But even if people didn't find their contents, boring, more often than not the same objects placed inside time capsules are also preserved better at museums and other archives. It's very rare that someone opens a time capsule, to discover something that's actually a unique find that usually you can see a better preserved one of the exact same thing in one or many museums. However, all of that said time capsules usually inspire an interest in history and some civic pride, at least in the short term and that counts when they're created and again, when they're opened and especially for the ones that are meant to stay sealed up for thousands of years, the containers themselves can involve tremendous feats of engineering. This is especially true for all of these ones they're supposed to stay sealed up for many thousands of years. So while people might classify their contents into the category of worthless junk, their creation has a different type of worth and back to those time capsules that we talked about, at the very beginning of the show, the lion statue is back on top of the old state house, complete with a new time capsule. And this time, it's in the lions, scroll, so future generations will have easier access to it. Among the contents of that capsule are an iphone five apple apparently would not provide an iphone six for this foreign relations of the United States. Dates nineteen seventy seven to nineteen eighty volume three to replace a copy of foreign relations of the United States, eighteen ninety six it was in the prior box, basically to fill space a number of letters and photos. Anna Boston marathon medal, the original items were on display the old state house for several weeks over December twenty fourteen in into January twenty fifteen the items inside were delicate enough that after that point they were returned to the archives for preservation the they were actually preserved incredibly, well, considering how old the time capsule was and how it had just been in the statue out in the elements for so long, but they did want to make sure that they lasted long into the future. So they didn't stay on public display for all that, long, the time capsule that was removed from the cornerstone at the old state house is also going to go back in June, and it's going to include its original contents having been cleaned and restored along with some new items along the same vein. Basically, what was in there before we're news. Papers in coin sue things of that nature. It's original contents were displayed at the museum of fine arts in Boston during March, and April twenty fifteen the bus Doni in society and the museum of fine arts also, both documented, what was inside those boxes and put lots of pictures and details on their websites. Seth people felt like they were being hidden away from public view. They really really weren't. Thank you so much for joining us on this Saturday. If you have heard an Email address, or Facebook, URL, or something similar over the course of today's episode since it is from archive that might be out of date, now you can Email us at history podcast at how stuff works dot com, and you can find us all over social media at missed in history. And you can subscribe to our show on apple podcasts Google podcasts, the iheartradio app and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff you missed in history classes, the production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts for my heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm not going very far. I'm in a rush. It's too uncomfortable. Sometimes I just forget, don't kid yourself. There's no such thing as a good excuse for not buckling up. If you've used any of these excuses or any others, you're putting yourself at risk of injury or death in two thousand seventeen more than ten thousand people were unbuckled when they were killed in crashes. That's fifty one percent of people killed motor vehicle crashes that were not wearing seatbelts, no matter what kind of vehicle you drive wearing your seat. Belt is the best defense in a crash even when you sit in the backseat you still need to buckle up that goes for when you ride and taxis and use ride sharing services to police are on the lookout and writing tickets. So why take the risk in two thousand seventeen alone seatbelts saved nearly fifteen thousand lives through the smart thing and buckle up every trip day or night? Click it or ticket. Back before we called it voicemail, or at least when voicemail meant something, different and more specific the world had the humble answering machine. Now, if you leave the name, the if you aren't of the age to remember, the answering machine was a physical audio recorder that plugged into your phone lard. You couldn't call into it, remotely, you had to wait till you got home to check your messages. And they were the source for a lot of Seinfeld gas. George isn't at home. Genta be most answering machines recorded on cassette tape your magnetically recorded message will be saved until you recorded over it or change the cassette when I was a little kid. My family had a different kind of answering machine, it was actually tape 'less. I think it was a Sony, and it was digital. That's my dad, a man who's not apt to forget piece of telephone technology. It was like a little tower with a big push button on top that would blink once you had a message in addition to play and shuttle headed record button for your greeting. Two days after jesse's to be. But on this machine, you could also record your own messages directly into it, like voice mobile function on your phone. So I think the idea was if you were the husband and wife passing running kids around and stuff that you could leave each other. Messages on it, if you were standing in front of like you wouldn't have to call it on your non-existent cellphone, because none of us that cell phones back that I don't think mom and every ever used that, but you used it because you liked hearing yourself recorded. I'm eric. It said on top of my parents bureau. So I must have had to climb on a stool or something, but I spent untold hours talking into this device. Voice is gonna come out all weird staticky from the spring recorded and played many many times recorded multiple memo's than hit the play button. It would run them all back to back in the order in which they were created to a young me this absolute magic. By this method. And in a spirit of endless experimentation. I'd fill the tiny hard-drive with recordings structured as imaginary shows. Inside. You have no idea. What about I'm not sure I did then probably just whatever came to mind. I've listened through it one hundred times in pieces as I built my apple soda and a few times over as finished product and wait for my parents to check their messages. I have great parents, so they listened through with at least feigned enthusiasts. But sooner or later, we'd need the space with the click of a button, it was all gone. Van matter. Is anyone there? Over or play off. He was Easter is gone. It's on. By wherever okay? Another. None of those were saved this tape, I've been playing, his the closest thing I have left, it was actually recorded on Microsoft's set, which looks just like a regular cassette tape shrunk down to a quarter of the size. My next fascination after answering machines here. I'm wandering around my dad's office with his hand held voice recorder. Weren't sound about ten. I made lots of tapes like this. But as far as I can find this is the last one, I have left from this early in my life. Do I wish more had been saved especially those early answering machine productions? I don't know. I guess, so it's comparable to a baby picture an old yearbook or some other keepsake, maybe the most like a Sunday school craft projects for mother's day. Ragged and potentially embarrassing. However, sentimental thousands of the goings as provocative, but it's a federal it's a fleeting moment. And it's gone. Even though I was young. I knew that at the time. It's these moments this show, fixate sawn lost materials dropped threads forgotten stories ephemera in the way that it's intertwined in our lives, all those things, tangible, and intangible that you wish you could take just one more. Look at before they vanish into the past. America's produced like lots and lots of stuff just piles of stuff and it's sitting around in storage spaces and keep making it and buying it. And then what do you do with it, and it's got to go somewhere. The fact of the matter is all day long everyday their warehouses full of stuff getting just pushed off a cliff getting shoved off into the abyss and being destroyed all day, every day. That's the Nagorski runs. The canary records label a friend of mine Steve, slowly in who's a record guy. Like me, said that what he loves is being the guy standing at the edge of the cliff waving his arms going wait. No. Let me look at those first before you throw them away. I think there might be some good stuff in there might be some stories. We don't think we should throw all of those away yet. 'cause museums can handle it. The big cultural institutions can't handle it. There's just too much stuff. You know, they're getting donated piles of stuff all the time. The fact of the matter is Fe don't always know, where care. They're looking for specific things that relate to specific narratives. So you always need somebody who's looking for a different story. We have a season ten episodes of stories from that realm of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases not saved at all. A bizarre tale of two infamous New Yorkers booby-trapped their home and turned it into the shield fortress of a missing chapter of American music history. There hasn't been a guess culturally that they matter, so they get thrown on the carpet, a decade's worth of original television loss to the Airways. It's over. It's the ephemeral you're going to see something else. The next second, nobody's ever going to see a piece of music that's defied convention for seven years. Right down, the sounds they heard during it and one girl said, I never realized there was so much listen to. And what could only be called an audio mystery said, nothing on it clearly had been recorded, which intrigue me. What is this going to be? These stories and more, given new life. If only for a glimpse. There's times I can't help but feeling like that little kid again talking into a machine that I'm sure won't save anything I say into. Is this podcast, a piece of ephemera in the making a forgotten story about forgotten stories, only time will tell? Ephemeral debuts may twentieth. Subscribe now on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts, and learn more at a feminine dot show. End of messages. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. The Home Depot is, we're at all comes together, but not just the flooring, trim and pain. Now there's more kinds of doing with decor from the Home Depot. Shop thousands of furniture and decor pieces. Plus, get free flexible delivery with no hassle returns to your local store. You can save up to ten percent when you use promo code history te- HD at checkout. Shop homedepot dot com slash decor. Today valid on select items, only free delivery select items forty five dollars or more. Visit homedepot dot com. For more information.

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The Soap Dragon

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

49:18 min | 1 year ago

The Soap Dragon

"Hey, everybody, you may not care about AI but AI cares about you. Maybe it's how you match with your new romantic partner. Maybe it's the route you choose to get to work this morning or the predictive used to respond in your last Email. These are all the everyday behaviors that are subtly modified by without even noticing sleep. Walkers is the new podcast that asked, what does it all mean for us a new podcast that airs every Thursday? That's right. Unsleeping workers, they ask questions, like how can AI stop someone from joining ISIS? What happens to doctors, if AI can diagnose illnesses better than they can, what does a song written by sound like? And if a I can predict what we're going to do next. Does democracy still work so tune into sleep. Walkers, a brand new podcast that airs every Thursday, listen subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Welcome stuff to blow your mind production. I heart radio has networks. Hey, welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert lamb. And I'm Joe McCormack Ken today. I thought maybe we should start off with a little don't do Donnie don't does. All right. Tell me tell us about Donny down. Okay. So let's let's see what Donnie don't is doing. And see if maybe we should don't do what he does SP transport the dunes. So Donnie don't is he's cooking up a big old mess of French fries, in this deep fryer, and he eats all the fries while watching RoboCop three and then it's time to clean up. So first of all, he realizes he is greasy all over from eating this big batch of fries. So he gives himself a good wipe down with some wet wipes, then he flushes them down the toilet. Now it's time to get rid of the gallon of duck fat, but he used to cook his fries. So what does he do? He pours it straight down the drain in the bathtub now I think most of us can easily. I don't know about all of us because somebody's obviously doing what Donnie don't does. But I think most of us can easily spot, the, the Donnie don'ts here. He's made several errors. By now. I think it's pretty common knowledge that you are not supposed to flush wet wipes and other non toilet paper products, down the toilet, and you're definitely not supposed to poor fat down the drain. Yeah. I mean there are some other things that he's doing potentially criticized. I don't I don't know how, how often he's eating French fries that are been fried in duck fat. Like if he's doing it too often. That's probably not great for his health. But you know, once in a while why not right broke up three. I have no problem with that may not be the strongest and the RoboCop movies. But it's it has like cyber ninjas in it. That's kind of cool. But yeah, it's the it's the wet wipes and then pouring that Greece down the drain in the it's the point of the grease on the drain. I often forget that, that is a key rule. Odu break this one. I, I just I'm generally not in a position to break it because we just don't we don't cook with with fat much any at all anymore. And, and then as far as what wives go, like I. I know not to put wet wipes down though, really. No oils in your house. No salad dressing. No, like no olive oil or anything but not duck fat. Oh, well, I mean, of course other like non animal fats are still like fats oils. But I guess what? I'm saying. Like I remember. So I shouldn't have said, just duck fat. I mean, the you're not supposed to pour oil or lipids of down the drain, but, but specifically like the, you know, like a big fry that kind of drainage situation, like I, I remember seeing jars of, of fat and oil underneath the sink. Oh, yeah. Growing up. Because like that was the appropriate thing to do. Well, that's grandma's house kinda thing with the big old Mason jar of bacon, grease under the sink. Right. And then, of course, when whenever we go if you go to a fast food, restaurant, or even stop a restaurant, in general, you're gonna find that big grease trap outside, like sometimes it's a little bit hidden. But sometimes there's no place to hide it. Just right up front says there in the parking lot, and, yeah, I remember one of my jobs that I worked at when I was in college every morning when I'd go into it, I'd have to park in the parking lot of a restaurant that was like next to where I worked, and I parked right next to their big. It was like a burger and fries place our next to their big grease grease depository. And it just looked like the saddest robot from some Star Wars spin off, like Lithuanian Star Wars has our Ford deseve in, and it's this big black thing with a with, like this dripping sad, Greece tears stained head. But of course that's this restaurant USA. Jim in and we can I think we can all understand that. I mean, there's certain rules regulations. They're they're following. And they're also producing just a ton of this, this material. I, I wonder if like the problem with a household situation is either, you're creating so little, you don't think about it. So it's like can get by thousand cuts. Right. Right. Or in when you do produce, a more sizable amount of doing some sort of a frying scenario like you just suddenly have this, this huge mess to clean up and it's easy to just convince yourself. I'm just going to do the easy thing. Right. I'm just going to go and put it down the sink in and next time I'll do better. Right. Who's going to know? But maybe we should step back and ask a question. I mean it's not like RoboCop is going to show, your house, right though. That's what they do in RoboCop two. Right. They reprogram him. So instead of fighting crime goes out, and he, he pursues a minor minor in for littering and stuff like that. And people using swear words. So we should ask this question of wait a minute. Why are you not supposed to do these things? Why are you not supposed to pour oil and fat and grease down the drain? Well, one reason you're not supposed to do. This has to do with the way, sewers work. Sewers are I say with no hesitation, one of the greatest human inventions? And if you doubt this listen to our invention episodes on the toilet, or listen to we, we did an episode of stuff to blow your mind about the Meazza theory of disease, and in all of these. We talk about how, you know, properly maintained sanitary, sewer facilities are not just there to make our homes in our streets, more pleasant like they play a crucial role in protecting public health and preventing outbreaks of diseases, especially fecal, oral route diseases, which are as grossest, they sound diseases like cholera sewers work when everything flows smoothly to its destination point at a treatment facility, and they're one of the. Innovations in the history of civilization. I say that. No qualifications at all. But sometimes things get in the way like tree roots can intrude on sewer pipes in block flow. We live here in Atlanta, where there are a lot of trees and a lot of a lot of old large trees, and places that are intersecting with sewer pipe sins of this. We know about this happening a lot, and of course, the they can cause turbulence in this can lead to build up a ring of old decaying, sewer mains that crack and do similar stuff and sometimes blockages in these sewer, sewer pipes occur from the inside out, one of the most all inspiring things that can block a sewer is what we're going to be talking about today. It's something that has in recent years, come to be known as a fat Berg. According to an article I was reading by Kelly Oakes in New Scientist from earlier this year. This term was apparently coined in two thousand eight but it became widely popular after news reports about a huge fat Berg in twenty thirteen. And what it refers to is a giant solidified mass of stuff, based on fats oils that just states in the heart of a sewer system. Feeding on things like wet wipes and flaw in other trash, but especially on fats in the byproducts of fats, like cooking oils, you know, Greece from cooking animals all that stuff that, that people washed down the drain when they just either dump out oils, cook with or just when they washed their dishes and the oils that are already on the dishes. Come come off and go down the down the tubes. And I understand that they'll the wet wives. The flaw saw that can consider serve as a substrate, right? Scaffolding on which this. The new mass will form. Yeah. And we'll talk about how it forms a little bit. But I wanted to talk about the terminology because while fat bergh's has really caught on with the public. This is like, what I think the reason there have been so many articles in recent years about fat, bergh's is just because of the term fat bergh's like there was now this beautiful attractive terminology for it, whereas previously, especially in the US, I think they were referred to primarily with the acronym, fogs for fat oil in Greece, or frogs, for fat route says intrigue roots and oil and grease, but at a really miss an opportunity there to Doug to dub them four instead of frogs, same letters, but it was scratched more of shut, which, you know, I think maybe would have resonated, a little more maybe not as much as fat birds, ultimately did. But I mean attack of the Forbes right where the Forbes, I feel like that could have resonated with, with the public if there is not already a movie about one of these things becoming sin. There will be soon, but one, particularly massive fat Berg, that we might linger on for a has been covered extensively, especially in the British press. This was the white chapel Berg, it was removed in two thousand seventeen and it was a mass blocking the sewer under the under white chapel road in Eastland. And I think this Jack the ripper is neighborhood. Yeah. I think that adds to the appeal of the white chapel fat Berg. It sounds even more. Sinister. Exactly. And the Burgh itself in a way, was sort of a white chapel. It's like this, this unholy things sort of a grey off white color. And so it was about two hundred fifty meters long, or about eight hundred twenty feet and it weighed probably about one hundred thirty tonnes, this monster was so magnificent that a piece of it was broken off and displayed in a special exhibit in the museum of London. And I came across a gorgeous absolutely haunting. Scripture in of this sewage. Fat Berg fragment by Sam night in the New Yorker and the, the description of the fat Berg was so moving that I have to quote from it or you, ready Robert, let's add the piece of fat burger was slightly smaller than a loaf of bread and looked like it might have come from the moon. It was putty colored and marked everywhere with geological looking indentations, including cluster of fingerprints from one. It was removed from a sewer in east London last October and lifted through a manhole on the surface. There was also a dark fragment from an autumn leaf which must have slipped down the drains into its mall emerging through the congealed calcified fat was the purple and orange perforated edge of double decker. Chocolate bar wrapper, every detail of the hideous object was starkly visible because it was resting on a bed of black granules under a spotlight in a glass box at the museum of London at the opening of its new exhibition fat Burr. I stared at it for a while and why I did so a tiny dark spec on the fat bird became intimate in started to move a fly, the size of a pinhead, flew up and battered against the glass, that's pretty great because he catches the sense of almost being alive. And, and also this, this haunting feeling that it is like our sins may manifested into a physical form. Uh-huh. Bike here is in all your recklessness in your your your willingness to, to flush inappropriate things down the toilet. Well, here it is altogether to confront you into two point. It's a grotesque finger at you. Yeah, I hope this description of the Fatburger, it's nominated for a Pulitzer prize. It's powerful stuff. But the 2017 white chapel Berg that mentioned a minute ago was by no means the only fat Berg fat bergh's form all the time in. Cities, all around the world. Do do people flushing and washing fats, and other inappropriate stuff down the drain, according to nights article, it's estimated that London alone has at least five large fat bergh's at any given time. So sometimes, you know, they go down there to fight them, but they're, they're always new ones forming. So let's talk about size. They can become so huge. Let me restate what I said, a minute ago, this white chapel beast was two hundred and fifty meters long, which is approximately the length of the Hindenburg, and it weighed probably about one hundred thirty tonnes or heavier by about a third than the biggest ever seora pod dinosaurs. And of course, it makes sense because we're talking about a massive sewage system. We're talking about massive consumption, a massive population and therefore the clog. The thing is going to be massive as well. We and also you wanna consider the particulars of the London. Sewer system because this is where a lot of these stories come from the London sewer system. You know, it's, it's got Victorian elements and it was a sewer system built over one hundred years ago, you know, back in Victorian times as a response to the great stink. You know, we've talked about on, on the show before where the, you know, the sewage being discharged into the Thames, one year in the belief is eighteen fifties or sixties sometime in the middle of the nineteenth century, it got so foul, and it stinks so bad, that parliament was just, you know about to puke in their in their deliberation chamber is. And so they eventually did something about it. And that was to get this sewage system, not only because of the smell, but also because it was, you know, the sewage system they had in place at the time, which consisted of more like open sewers in the streets stuff draining into the Thames, which then people would drink out of just leading to the Colorado breaks and terrible public, health conditions, and these horrible stinks so they created this mass. Live sewer system under the ground in order to take away, all of the wastewater, and discharge it away from the city. So you've got these like, in some cases, very large, like old elaborate, and some sometimes kind of beautiful brick built sewage channels, and, you know, access tunnels and all this, so, so you got old facilities, but you might be wondering. Okay, so one of these giant beasts, you, you've got a Hindenburg of fat and sewage and waste stuck in the sewer blocking blocking things preventing them from flowing. What do you do about it? Well that's the question. We're gonna take a quick break. And when we come back, we will answer it during our stint on the planet, humans have made a lot of stuff some of it is treasured, some of it has junked some of it is just forgotten about how do we place value in the things that we create what deserves just one more look before it vanishes into the past these questions, underpin the new podcast ephemeral host Alex Williams. Guides you through a wasteland of things that were just barely saved. And in some cases, not saved at all part, history podcast part, sound, collage ephemeral features interviews with historians collectors authors, and more episodes, piece together, stories lost time, missing chapter of American music history, a decade's worth of original television, broadcast, only once in a mystery caught on tape that seemed unsolvable a and if you listen carefully, you might hear a JoAnne me as well. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. We did do something. Yeah. Sure did. But of course, this is by Alex Williams producer who has worked on this very podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Alex is a longtime collaborator and, and friend of the show. So don't miss a femoral. Listen on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts, and learn more at ephemeral dot show. Okay, we're back. So we're talking about fat bergh's. How do you fight them? You got one of these giant concrete fat conglomerations made a wet wipes and and dental flaw and old, you know, rappers of food and bits of plastic. And of course, all of these fats, and oils and grease and sewage and waste. It just makes this huge mass that blocks up the sewers. What do you do about it? Well, you literally have sewer workers that go down to break it up, and remove it the city, sewer workers in London are known as Flusher 's, and they have to fight these wicked. Villains. They have to go down and confront the bowel in person and in nights article in the New Yorker, he talks about the, the process of breaking up. The white chapel mass, so first of all, he says, they've gotta wear protection and they've got to have a breathing apparatus because this thing is in a way alive. It's got a lot of life feeding on it. And as a result, it can. Let out sudden explosions of gas like hydrogen sulfide, which of course, smells, like rotten eggs, and is the it's a common gas released as a byproduct of decaying, organic matter. But it also releases methane and sometimes it can just blast out carbon monoxide which can be deadly. So let's say you're outfitting. You're DND adventure, the Flusher class to go down into this dungeon and fight the monster. What weapons do you want to quip them with, we'll probably not fire fire would seem like a bad idea? Oh, yeah. Let's the and unfortunately they are not a magic using class. So they, they don't have any spills available to them. I don't know. Is that a thing in D? There's some classes who can't do spells, right? Yeah. I mean, the simply there are a lot of classes that have some sort of magical abilities, especially as they level up. But yeah, the sounds more like like fighter material right here. Need to go down and physically fight this physical threat, and remove it. These are Paladins. I'll allow allow okay. Paladins have some, some. They've holy powers at cetera. But a lot of those powers are about like in increasing their physical prowess, right? Okay. Certainly, I don't know my stuff, okay? We'll say they're Paladins anyway. So the mighty Flusher is weapons include the bomb hose, that's a term bomb hose, which is just like a high pressure water jet that should be able to cut through blockages. It's like cutting jet, but apparently, according to nights article, even this didn't work all that well on the hardened mass of the white chapel Bergh and so later on these these warriors had to use more old fashioned implements, like pickaxes shovels. And he says in one case, even a saw when pieces were removed and kept for the London museum exhibit, one expert, who handled them described the fat Berg chunks as sort of hard. But light feeling like pumice stone that was interesting. Yeah. But even the smaller ones so that one's gigantic, but even the smaller ones are still huge. Wjr in disgusting ways. I found a brilliantly funny article with a great title on atlas obscure by Jessica Lee Hester from January of this year is called seven big things they're smaller than this fat Berg. And it refers to another British fat Berg, one found in a sewer beneath the town in beneath the town in Devon and according to the water utility in that area. It was the largest fat burger that they had come across in that area. It was about two hundred ten feet or about sixty five meters. And so, so, what are the things she lists as smaller than this fat burger, at least in terms of dimensions? I don't think they had wait on it at the time. She was writing so smaller in terms of length was the above water surface, height of the iceberg that sunk, the Titanic, the tallest known gingko tree in the world, the Christ the redeemer statue in Rio de Janeiro the Kony's island or the Coney island's wonder wheel the statue of liberty. The Roman Coliseum and Nelson's column in Trafalgar Square, all smaller than this fat Berg, which is not even the largest fat Berg by a long shot. And she also pointed out something in her article, that was just an interesting phrasing of things, it's sort of echoed thoughts. I had been having as I was reading about fat bergh's in, in Hesters words, quote, the chunky gunky, sewer clog are murky mirrors into the behaviors of people above ground because they hold all the stuff we flush and try to forget about, including cooking grease napkins, flaw minstrel products, which don't belong in the pipes in the first place. So it's this idea of, like the these are sort of the, the places of all the things that we wanted, just get out of our lives. It's, you know, the purging of convenience all becomes this mass. Yeah. And again, it of confronts us once more the horror is even greater because it is it is. It's, it's congealed. Into this, this massive form. And I think maybe that is part of the like the psychological reason why people can't look away. Like why was there a museum exhibit about these things where everybody wanted to go see them? It's this fascinating. You know, almost kind of Freudian feeling kind of thing like the suppressed part of our culture and civilization. It's what's shove down and covered up and not looked at almost a out of a sense of shame and it becomes this stuff. And a lot of our modern life is about a distancing ourselves from the reality of our waste from the reality of our dead things of this nature. So, so, yeah, I think it definitely speaks to us on that level. Okay. Maybe we should turn to the question of how like how do simple bits of cooking oil and other fat turn into these mighty slumbering beasts the monsters of the dungeon, because it could seem almost magical, right? It's it's like this thing is become alive down there. It is like one of these. They're multiple, I think our properties where some sort of garbage monster comes alive, the any basically fulfills the same purpose. We're talking about here to confront us and to, to, to show us, the Harz of our of our disposable society. But, but there is a very busy the process is happening here is not magical. It is. You know, we can, we can look what is happening chemically? Yeah. So obviously, there's one extremely simple way. There are multiple ways here, but there's one extremely simple way that fat can end up blocking sewer pipes and that's by congealing like if you've ever cooked bacon cook bacon in a pan. What happens while the white solid fat in the bacon, in the animal flesh, renders, it turns into a fluid that runs around in the pan, like water, and it flows, so you can pour it out at cetera. You can pour it down the drain, but that's only because it's hot if you take that bacon grease and you leave it out at room temperature. You. Put it in the fridge. We all know what happens, right? It turns into a kind of waxy solid and this is large, right? Yeah. I guess the curing process of bacon doesn't change. That is. It's pork fat either way, and now not all fats congealed into solids, or semi solids at room temperature. But plenty do so if you melt this fat, and then pour it down the sink into cold pipes in wash it away, the cooling, fat forms, a solid or semi solid mass that can build up it can coat surfaces and so forth. And can of course blocked sewer pipes. So that the, the simple version, this just away fat can clog up, your sewers, one reason you don't wanna put it down there. Right. And we're going to grasp that, even if you've ever washed dishes before you can get a sense of how what's happening exactly? But this is actually not the main piece of chemistry contributing to fat bergh's. The truth is actually weirder often, the fats that we washed down the drain essentially become soap. The chemical processes known as pontiff occasion. This word comes from the Latin Sapo, meaning soap and once a massive fat gets washed down the drain it chemically breaks down into fatty acids. These fatty acids undergo a chemical reaction in the alkaline environment of the sewer combining with other elements and compounds often calcium to form this calcified soap like deposit. And, of course, as we all know soap can be pretty solid like you, you don't wanna get wacked with a bar of soap in the bottom of sock, but it gets even worse because calcified fat bergh's, build up a, a real kind of rigidity the workers who have to cut them out. Sometimes compare them to concrete by the time you have to go in and break them up, and I don't know exactly what leads stole that it might be the this forming of a solid mass. And then, like the sort of compacting of time, you know, thing pressure just forcing it together, but the soap like masses tend to form around. Round solid pieces of trash get flushed down the toilet. So that's the other major component. We mentioned earlier, like wet wipes are by far. The worst offender here this is in all the British press about this is just saying, like, don't wash fats and oils down the drain, and don't flush wet wipes. Don't flush wet wipes. What wipes are like, the, the most hated thing the zoo workers? And that's of course, because, you know, they're not designed industrially the way like toilet, paper is which is made to break up, when it's in the acquiesce environment. The wet wipes tend to not break up. They stick together, they form sort of binding or substrate for this nightmare soap of the deep on its way to becoming a bird. I mean it makes me think of the of the science jobs. We've covered about creating artificial say ears, we have some sort of scaffolding on which you're gonna you're going to build up like the, you know, the collagen and create this artificial piece of flesh. And it's kinda like that process taking place. In a foul sewer. But imagine that process is taking place for stuff. Just keeps flowing into it. So it just keeps getting more solid material like wet wipes and more like binding soap like fat structure until it becomes an ear the size of the Hindenburg. Another contributor to the fat bergh's in the London sewers and not just the London sewers in other places. But, especially in London sewers is old rough brick surfaces. I'm not positive but I think the mechanism here is that rough surfaces create more friction with the flowing water and this causes turbulence instead of flowing smoothly, the water or the, the sewage it gets sort of churned up and this, interrupts the smooth flow and it gives the an in so it causes buildup of solid matter. But also, I think the rough surfaces just sort of give the wet wipes and other trash little crags to catch on in. And of course, once they catch on other things can catch onto them and it just builds up from there. Yeah. And, and also, so these soap like masses are not water soluble. Meaning they're not dissolved by water. So they're not gonna overtime just like break up and wash away with the flow of the sewer water, they just sit there and they build up and they grow to messing with new ways. East and trash and layers of soapy solids made out a fat until somebody finally goes down there to slay the dragon. And as we discussed, of course, the battles of the Fletchers, you have to physically break, these things up and remove them again with things like pick axes, and saws, because it is almost like concrete. Yeah. You know, it's not just this big, you know, grow sewer jelly that you just need to sort of, you know, flush a little bit more, you know, just spray with water and you know, you'll get it done. A plunger is not going to do. Yeah. Now in some cases, I do think these, like water jet hoses can be used to cut it up. They just at least. In the one case I was reading about they weren't quite doing the job. And they had to resort to the old ways also. I just wanted to do a little side note on Saipan affiliation because what's happening here in the sewers is not exactly the same as but it somewhat analogous, to something that I'm very interested in that occasionally happens to human bodies in certain burial conditions. Robert have you been to the motor museum in Philadelphia. I haven't I've never visited Philly. Yeah. Long overdue. I haven't been, but I've wanted to for a long time. They've got an exhibit, or I don't know about an exhibit. They they've got a thing at the motor museum. That is a human body. It's known as the soap lady. And do you know the soap lady how I'm already horrified because I, I know enough about the museum to know that a soap lady, there is going to be a sight to behold. I think they've got a soap lady, and soap AMAN I've primarily read about the soap lady, so those two should meet. Yeah. Exactly. So it was originally believed that she was woman who lived in Philadelphia in the eighteenth century and had died of yellow fever, sometime in the seventeen ninety s but in nineteen eighty six they did some x rays of the, the body of the soap lady, and this revealed that she was wearing clothes with like buttons and pins that weren't manufactured in the US until around the eighteen thirties. So it's now believed that she must have died later than was originally believed. But whenever she died in eighteen seventy five her body was zoom. Mm d- from a local cemetery, and it was discovered that the corpse was encased almost entirely in a solid soap, like substance, and that she was essentially a soap mummy. Oh, if you look at pictures of her, she looks like a mummy. She looks like some of these like, you know, sort of dried mummified preserved corpses. The, you might find in the case of some of the Andy and mummies except that she has accepted that, like her features are less define, and she's got a bunch of extra stuff around the outside of her body, almost like she's encased in some kind of concrete or something. But it's not concrete this substance in reality is something kind of, like, so it's not exactly, so, but it's something known as Atta passer, also sometimes referred to as corpse wax, or grave wax. Now, I do think I remember reading about this years and years past and some Texas on. Decomposition. Yeah. There are some interesting stories about the role of grave wax in, in, like one thing that corpse wax, does when it forms around a body is that it can help preserve some of the elements within and this keeps corpses from decaying like they would normally so the formation of adequacy, I do believe is chemically considered a form of Sapone, affiliation, like what's happening with the fat bergh's in the sewers is at a series, this waxy substance that sometimes forms around dead bodies as they decay, particularly in certain kinds of burial conditions in these environments tend to be alkaline, you know, like, the, the opposite of acidic, they tend to be anaerobic meaning without access to air, and they tend to be warm and moist, which are just, you know, the generally sounds like the kind of environments. You don't want to bury bodies, but, you know, some soil is like that. And, and I'm guessing at least some of these are gonna we're going to match up with with sewer scenarios. We've talked. A before about some of the, the organisms, that can grow in a sewer environment that really thrive in a low oxygen environment. Yeah. Exactly. So freshly formed Atta procedure can be kind of soft and waxy, but older atmosphere can more closely resemble something like concrete. I was reading a live science article about this by wind Perry and the author quotes, an anthropologist from North Carolina State university named an Ross. And she says, quote, a lot of people say, it's greasy, I always think of it like a thick cottage cheese consistent because it's kind of lumpy also. So maybe not the, the grave wax of the grave soap, but the grave cottage cheese cottage, cheese of the dead, the corpse cheese. Yes. All right. One on that grotesque note. Let's say one more break. And when we come back, we have some other fat Berg facts to roll through. And, you know, maybe we'll talk just a little bit about about sewer monster movies at the end of the episode. Are you following your passion? I'm Carla Marie, the host of side, hustlers. I talked to people following their passion outside of their regular job. Everyone either has a side hustle, or wants to create a side hustle. Get inspired to start your own business, or just hear the story and hustle of every side hustler. Get motivated with side Hustler's. Listen and subscribe on the iheartradio app at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right. We're back. Okay. So quite clearly, these things you don't want fat bergh's in your sewers, and yet, they form in sewers under cities, all over the world. It's happening all the time, because of this combination of like stuff that people shouldn't flush and fats oils going down the drain, which, I guess is both variations of the same thing you know, stuff that you shouldn't put down the drain is going down the drain. And in the article I mentioned earlier new scientists Kelly, Oakes refers to a University College Dublin. Professor named Tom Curren who is who works in this field. And he says that the major factors contributing to a sort of recent increase in fat Bergens, in London are, of course, like a larger populations in cities. So it's just more people washing more stuff down drains, aging sewers. Yeah. Contribute a lot. One factor is more dining out at restaurants. Because it appears that restaurants are responsible for a huge amount of the fats and oils that go down the. Drain. You know, I would have thought it'd be more regulated with the restaurants. Apparently, it's as in the UK at least it is not as regulated as some people think it should be right. I don't know if that's changed. Recently in the articles, I was reading from the past couple of years. It's I, I think there's a problem with, like last a lack of specificity in regulations like there are regulations. Say restaurants aren't supposed to wash anything down the drain that would be harmful to the sewer system. But like it doesn't specifically say, don't wash fats and oils down the drain. Okay. Okay. And then the other big thing is, of course, trash that goes down the drain to, you know, as we've already said, there's, like one huge culprit here. That's like ninety nine percent of the problem and it's wet wipes. It just seems like that would be an easier one to knock, it seems like that would be something we could solve is like, if you use a wet wipe, no matter what used to for no matter how befouled it is just put it in a garbage can like. Maybe maybe it's easier. I mean 'cause you, you go to some, you know, you travel to certain parts of the world where the sewer system can't even handle toilet paper and you get used to it, you know, like at first, it may seem a little weird like oh, you know, I, I must wipe, and then put the toilet paper into a receptacle. You know it runs against what you've been doing. But you get used to it and becomes the new normal. I didn't even know that was the thing. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean you travel and just depends on on the sewage system and some just can't handle the paper. So, you know, it's, it's, it's asking even less. I feel to say look just have a wet wipe. I know you just used it on some disgusting part of like a two year olds body. But you know, they'll just put it in the garbage. Apparently. So I was reading in the same article that, you know, there are, there are things that have proved effective, and it's essentially regulating the stuff, we're. Talking about. It's like regulating, what restaurants can put down the drain, and putting grease traps in place and all that. But then also doing public education campaigns to get people to not put anything in the toilet other than human waste and toilet paper and this has been affected in, like Dublin already, but it's it hasn't been effective enough everywhere. And I wonder if the problem is that I mean, I would hope that in a campaign against fat per. Somebody has created with practical effects and costuming an anthropomorphic fat Berg creature, or even like a, you know, thinking about, and I know we both love good like paranormal cops boy, tation films from years, past like maniac, cop, and so forth. And there was a cool trailer from pose at melt cop or something melt Cup. Yeah. Like they could make fat bird cop in so fat brewed cop. Is this like an anthropomorphic fat Berg in police uniform that comes to your apartment or your restaurant and check? Dis you for your destructive ways fat bird cop versus fluke, man. The next big crossover hit. Oh, yeah. Or there, there, buddy. It's a buddy cop. Oh, yeah. Way. This is making fat Berg's, the hero as you're doing it backwards. No. The fat Berg in the same way, the fat Berg confronts. This of fat Berg becomes the hero. Like he's a cop made at a fat Berg raising consciousness about the need to destroy his own kind. We'll no. You know, he's like. He didn't want to be in fat Burke form, you know, maybe I don't know. Maybe he was previously human. I don't know. Maybe see took on human consciousness. Maybe it's kind of a swamp thing swamp man kind of a scenario. Yeah. Why don't they look? But I mean it can be hard to get people to behave. You know, it's like it's just usually pretty easy to get away with flushing and draining things you shouldn't, because who's going to catch you something? That is momentarily. Your problem is now just gone urged and it becomes instead like a small part of a big problem. That is everybody's problem. It's not your problem right now. Right. And of course, this I mean, there's so many other things in the world, it can fall under this category. This is the tragedy of the Commons. And it's you know, that people have shared common resources that they all need to the biggest one probably is like the natural environment, right? It's supposed to be something that is of common access to everyone. But in fact, there are individual actors who overexploited and foul and caused damage to this common resort resource that should be shared by everybody because it's momentarily convenient for them, and they can get away with it. It's one of the most crucial flaws in human psychology that we exploited. Common resources this way in that way. I do think we should think about sewers as a type of Commons, just like we would think about like the oceans, the rivers the air. The environment sewers are a common shared resource among all the people who use them and should be treated as such. Yeah. Even though it's definitely that kind of thing where we don't want to think about it, and we try not to think about it, unless it's broken right? Well, apparently when the London museum was running this fat burger exhibit. It had a plaque on the wall that read as follows the size and foulness fat bergh's makes them impossible to ignore and reminds us of our failings, that they do seems like something that should be inscribed over like the over the door of like a puritan church from the seventeen hundred s but I, I should also point out. I was reading that at the same use-of-force exhibit. They sold something called fat Burg, fudge, I guess, was in the museum patio and they'd have to have something like a cafe or the gift to line up with literally a sweet treat modeled. On a fat bird brick with raisins to represent flies. You know, mentioned earlier, you know, of course, London isn't the only city to have to deal with this, obviously, there are other large metropolitan areas that, that are plagued by fat bergh's, and I was reading an GO article titled huge blobs of fat and trash filling the world sewers by Erica Ingle hop, and this was a really nice article as well. If I remember correctly, the, the, the lead said that, you know, in one part of the city, someone flushes, a wet wipe in another part of the city. Someone flushes some oil when those two meet a baby fat Berg is more. So I applaud the, the, the, the writing in this article, but angle, have points out that in New York City, according to the city's two thousand sixteen state of the sewers report Greece causes seventy one percent of sewer backups in Zizi. And then in as a as a result, New York City, spins eighteen million spent eighteen million dollars over a five year period, fighting fat bergh's, but even in smaller US cities, you can see, you know, the local government, having to blow like half a million dollars a year to battle these buildups and another interesting thing that Ingle hop pointed out, though, was that there was a particular riverton project with Arjun energy to potentially harvest fat bergh's, and turn them into renewable fuel, and this is pretty sensible if you think about it, I mean all that oil going down. The drains in, you know, should be going somewhere else such as in the case of restaurants and. Grease traps, which are in sometimes grease, traps are, are pilfered for this very reason because their contents are valuable innocence in, in, in their also parts of the world where, you know, essentially, sewer oil is, is reclaimed and sort of sold on the black market sewer oil. But think this has been done with some of the British fat Burg's. I don't think all of them. I'm I'm not sure. But yeah, I think in some point some of them have become biofuel. Yeah. I mean, and it's seems like a logical alternative to the typical fates for fat Berg, which are I mean, if except for the rare pieces that go to the museum come art, you know, other stuff, it's either being hauled off to a landfill or it's broken up. So as to better diffuse into the sewer system. So, yeah. It to whatever extent you could. I mean, obviously you want to prevent the fat to begin with you don't wanna have to to toil with it. You know, even if you get to the point where you could send a robot down to battle the fabrics. It's still got a haul it up and all, and then potentially hauled off to a landfill. But if it could be turned into fuel if it could, you know, power, the delorean's, the future than that sounds like the way to go. Well, I do think it is a good idea to turn these things as long as they are still being made into fuel, but don't, don't get distracted by that, as like an excuse to okay. So it's not so bad, if we keep making them because they turned into fuel. Right, right. I mean, because again, the sewer systems are not made for fabrics like, if you I guess, if you reach a situation where you're like, look, we refused to learn, we're not going to stop flushing oil and wet wipes then okay, you could conceivably imagine a scenario where the sewer systems have to be redesigned in order to sequester. Fat bergh's for harvesting, but they're not built like that. And they're probably not gonna be rebuild like that. And it's alternately an easier prospect to just change how we're handling the things that were sending down into the sewer. This is going to become some crackpot political parties, energy platform, and they're saying, oh, all this talk about, you know, green energy. What you do is you pour oil down the drain all day. Our energy problems are solved. I'm not super up on British politics. Is there a fat Berg party yet? I know that the new party's get get forum here and there. I haven't heard about it. I'm sure I mean like all issues, especially issues. In fact that have to do with people exploiting or ruining the Commons for everybody. These issues often do get like politically polarized has its advantageous for somebody to do that. And this is why we need fat bird cop out there on the beat in the in the, you know, at least in the eyes of the public in the messaging confronting us chess. Tising for a ways. End I b but I mean seriously because I think like for my part, like one of the reasons that the other reasons that fat Briggs are so captivating. In addition to all the grotesque photos and footage that shows up, I saw one articles like video based article online, and I did it the title was something along the lines of the moment when a rat crawls out of the fat bird, and that was apparently the footage of a live rats warming out of fat Burke. You know, so we can't look away from the grotesque nature of them, but then also you the sewers. Are this unique location where there've been a number of notable films over the years that populate, the sewers with monsters? Yeah, be it sheds or or, or, or, or cannibals is in the British film raw meat wagons. That was a subway system. It's still environment often Ghostbusters to. I think the river of slime flowing on a new city that's going for me. But also definitely the. The blob at least the nineteen Eighty-eight remake cannot of like under the respective sewer system shenanigans there with the blob, you know, ripping through the sewer and attacking people. Yeah. Diana, definitely came up to the drains. So it's. I feel like the the fat Berg reminds us of these monstrosities as well except they're they're not fantasy. They're real. They just don't actually assaulted us. Try to digest us. Well, I feel like some of these especially Ghostbusters to. Yeah, it does bring in some of that same metaphor stuff. We were talking about earlier about, you know, like it's all the bad things, we don't want to think about it, and all the negative energy, is that, that is what was feeding the slime and ghostbuster sue. Right. It was like prince Vigo and just New Yorkers being jerks. That's kind of weird for a sequel to a movie in which an EPA Representative was villain. Yeah, but there you go. It was a different time Ghostbusters. A bravely pro littering movie. All right. Well, there you have it a fat bergh's for you. Now, obviously, if anyone out there has direct experience with fat Berg's, or any other strange monstrosities in our sewer systems. Let us know I feel like just thinking about the sheer number of listeners and just all the, you know, the diverse backgrounds that you all have somebody out there has had to have battled the fat Berg. We've got a firsthand Flusher in the audience. I know it yeah. It's just a matter of getting you to write in and tell us about it. So I if so do right in and tell us about it. And also, just if there's some sort of sewer monster movie that we've failed to reference. Yeah. Hit us up on that as well. We're always happy to chat about movies, and hey, if you're if you're an artist maybe you can create an image of fat bird cop because I feel like you'd be not only amusing us and amusing listeners, you'd potentially be saving the world by introducing this character. In the meantime, if you wanna check out more episodes of stuff to blow your mind head on over to stuff to blow your mind dot com. That's where you'll find them all. You'll also find out links to social media counts as well as our link to our T shirt store, but ultimately the best thing you can do to support the show is to just make sure you've rate interviews where every have the power to do. So wherever you get this podcast. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer, Tari Harrison, if you'd like to get in touch with us directly with feedback about this episode or any other to tell us about your battles, or the fat Berg to suggest topic for the future to suggest guest or just to say Hello. You can Email us at contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com. Stuff to blow your mind a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works for more podcasts from my heart radio is the I heart radio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. It was a writing camp at a house in the Hamptons for Bianca. She's walking around with her baby walking from room to room, just listening to what we're working on forever. Showed up at the front door. He had like a CD full beats everybody was slinging beats at her. When I remember getting into the course look hell goes here. Like in need another section like the anthem stadium like everybody screams it. Recorded into my phone when I was running like I'm sitting here panting in the. That was that was it? And she was like Kratz, you have beyond his single, like what, what an interesting day that was. I'm Dave Stewart sung. Right to produce. It co founder of thanks and co create and executive producer of on the show all about the intimate mysterious autumn sowing. Join us sung lands putt cast on iheartradio aware of you get you cast.

Berg London Greece apple Robert lamb US Fat bergh iheartradio white chapel London museum Donnie Alex Williams British press white chapel Berg museum of London AI
Knowledge, Morality, and GMO's

Just Think

28:12 min | 1 year ago

Knowledge, Morality, and GMO's

"Uh-huh. Downside about when I release two episodes in one week is that my backlog is totally destroyed. Welcome to just think let's go ahead and get started. So have you listened to the bonus episode? I talked about how subjectivity if implemented to it's extreme would be potentially dangerous for society to uphold an all though, it's not required that you have listened to the last episode to understand what I'm I talk about today because I did say if he wanted to get it would be all right? It would be beneficial to understand the concepts and that episode so feel free to go back and listen to it if you need to but to sum it up. And omitting some details. The idea is that I think that if we took some the post modern tendencies to look at things with subjectivity to its extremes, and we found that the way we see the world may not be how it actually exists. It would present a dilemma for morality and society as we understand it, and it would break our worldview encourage a environment in which is section is at its root. There's a lot there. And again, if you need to go back and listen dealerships up go ahead and do so mutt. That poses today's question as he who knows act morally or rephrased in a little bit longer of sentence. Does he who knows more information have the ability to act? With a clear conscience. So for some context as to what's prompting this whole discussion, I had recently engaged in a Twitter conversation with Alex Williams, who is the host of podcast called my wax museum. I would go check it out if you guys and you're interested in conversational podcast and learning about stories. He talking back and forth tweeting back and forth about the idea of natural selection, Aleutian being ever present as we play God with medicine as dialogue. I had mentioned that I have arguments for both in my mind, but haven't decided where I draw the line. And he said it is not uncommon for people to hold conflicting beliefs. Ironically enough I had to conflict conflicting beliefs about this. On one hand how can one have two conflicting beliefs about moralistic arguments. Don't you have a moral compass? On the other hand. I knew what he said was true as I find myself in that position the more learn about the world. The ironic thing about this podcast in the amount of time spent learning new reasons for people believe the way, they do. Is that I've now had enough information flow into my brain of ideas. I don't agree with in. Even after learning the, you know, the reasons for people believe what they believe still don't believe what the believe, I don't believe these ideas. I now have to look at. Why say what I think I say when I think we should do in the Lynn's of understanding some of its flaws. I now know for some of my beliefs at if implemented away I currently envisioned them people would be hurt in some way. And. It's pretty intuitive. Once it's kinda laid out in front of you like, yes, someone always at the loser when we're legislative and that's kind of the problem with legislation. That's if your liver -tarian you you'll always favor the no legislation route. This is for anything. But the reality is sometimes we need to legislate. So when I say, my ideas, you know. There's always a flip side to them. Because the reality of it is is I understand very compelling arguments about things like Boertien economics warfare and etcetera that I don't believe in my morality could be questions about the beliefs ahold due to logistics and just wouldn't have much of a valid response outside of my morality. So you could come to me about the now the economic necessity or benefits of abortion and have a strong argument. Logistically, but I I just have to hold stay my ground on the merit of morality. And then I have some beliefs. I do hold because logistics, and those logistics could be questioned morally and the best response. I would have is still logistical. Where I know. I don't have the moral high ground or that I don't have the or I don't see from the same perch that my opponent for lack of their term sees from you know, I don't hold the higher ground to the same steam. I don't hold his moral position to the same esteem. It that's a little harder to verbalize, but it's the best day for now. Thus response. I have but still be logistical response. This is a specially if I disagree with the moral argument at a level, so deep I cannot verbalize it. Now is this on the goal? Is it fair? Am I a monster? Because of these contradictions. These are all unfair questions with variable answers in a postmodern world. One of the fun things about this. Venture has been finding explanations for viewpoints on the service made no sense to me previously. It's been a lightning. If I'm being honest, seeing the processes around common beliefs and being able to go after them on a deeper level. I have also found that there is no problem with asking questions during discussion see people when defending their beliefs. They don't allow for the possibility that they don't know something about their argument. Imagine how much more constructive. Presidential debates would be the candidates talked about why believed what they believed instead of focusing on two facets of the other side's argument without room for elaborations. Imagine if we heard more beyond the stupid 'cause the following trickle down economics favors, the rich. No uterus. No opinion, build the wall. What I do with my body is none of your business. God condemns you I will lower taxes on the middle class. We must cut military spending. All of these statements accomplished the same thing. Nothing. Ironically enough, we can apply postmodern belief structures to this problem if we took the time to flesh out the Y instead of the what it may be easier. Finding the best act do. But here's the catch the more. You know, the less you can do the more. You know, the more you know, that any solution is unfair to somebody. If your goal is to avoid oppression hierarchies into tree achieve true equality as an gala -tarian, the no that no solution has only positive effects on some people groups. So does he who knows act morally? Is he ever able to act morally? And I am still struggling with this question. I have probably spent five hours today deliberating it back and forth in my head. But the immediate issue with this question is that suggests that he doesn't know can act morally it suggests virtue in ignorance, the fascist is ignorant freedom. The fundamentalists is ignorant to new ideas. The revolutionary is ignorant towards wisdom. So who is he who knows? I don't have an answer quite yet. But I hope to further the session with you in many ways and fill free to contribute to the conversation on Twitter and Instagram at just think pod, you can add me in. It's totally cool. And we'll go back and forth. But what I have going forward are just thoughts. And I want to be clear, I'm not laying claim to my ideas as correct more. So just trying to flesh them out with you listener. Because the way I see it. This question. Is troubling? Now over the last couple of weeks. I have been tackling philosophical ideas. I don't agree with on some level or another whether that be Marxism owes modernism. Subjectivity? The idea of terminus them is what I keep coming back to today. Because what prompted this whole thing will the discussion I had and a biology class this week. We were talking about GMO's modified organisms and the discussion focused around techniques, Chris where gene therapy where you can change the genetics individual organism to possibly get desired characteristics. Now, we see this in the US already with food in the word GMO is a catchphrase for health freaks everywhere. My food is GMO free as if it some. Blanket term for unhealthy food. What's funny in what's often misreported is that the FDA has a pretty strict regulation system for GMO's? And granted I'm probably a year and a half or move from the last time, I researched this topic extensively. But when I was researching the topic there was less than twenty federally approved GMO's on sale in the US. And most of them had the do with the color of the food. You're eating red apples. Corn rice color. Now, if you think that extra pigments in your fruit is unhealthy for you. New don't have a very deep understanding of biology that isn't to say that GMO's are always good GMO's can be bad. We are unattended unintended consequences. What messing with life? But the interesting thing was and we didn't talk about this in the discussion. But I'm providing some context for why you might know the term GMO. GMO's at the FDA approves are either for color or for the health benefit. On those who consume it. Maybe more resistant to pesticides. So that when pesticides are sprayed the food survived the bugs die that was another big one. But it was mostly color. There's GMO, and I believe it's called yellow rice. And I couldn't be bothered to look it up before sort of this episode. But what it did was basically increase antioxidants, vitamins and stuff like that to make the rice better for you. If we're going to be a society that considers that a bad thing. I don't understand what comes -ociety were being. So I was expecting the conversation in that direction. But it didn't. The students who are doing this presentation focused on crisper, gene therapy, and how it could be used to treat diseases that are on curable how it could be used to ensure that we eliminate down syndrome in a semi ethical way before birth before conception, even how we could better the better protect against things like cancer Huntington's autism other potential genetic diseases. You know, it's basically to remove genetics as a factor for why you may get sick. And there are various topics or various sub discussions within this larger discussion. And of course, there came the argument for designer babies. Now, we're going back and forth about this topic. And some of the sub topics came because of the conversation, I don't wanna get lost too far in the weeds here but seeing go to Christian school. There's always the underlying idea that. There's always the ethical argument that we shouldn't play God. And. I for one do subscribe to this argument, but mainly not because of religious reasons 'cause I don't really hold that strong of a belief system. But more so just to avoid unintended consequences. But as they were going back and forth. You know, I started my venture into the topic. I try to let my classmates speak before me attend the dominated conversations when I enter as you may have been able to tell by listening to this podcast. I'm a little forward when I posed my ideas. But after there is kind of a low, I kind know the question was. Who if this was approved, gene editing was approved for consumer use in the US. Should we limit it to only life threatening diseases, or should we open it up to everything, you know, what is the line that we draw the society? And there is various answers like only life threatening or open it up. To don't use it at all. Don't use. It all comes back to. It's not natural. Don't play God. So I started my discussion with this as Christians you have to ask yourself. Do you want to minimize suffering or do you want to minimize guild? Because if you want to minimize suffering, you open to everything, you know, you open it to any procedure that would cause a net benefit and the health of the child you wanna minimize guilt. You do only life threatening. Because that helps absolve your guilt of thinking you're playing Dodd. And avoiding nature's God's creation, which is nature's laws. And they play with that idea for about five minutes. And then there's kind of another lull because the the argument got twisted, but that's fine. When it came back. I kind of posed it this way, I'm like, okay. Well for those who are concerned about playing God. I mean, we're all biology majors, even if you don't believe in natural evolution as concepts. They are natural theories. Isn't there? An argument to be made that we apart of nature humanity is not special outside of the rest of you know, the. Natch the natural world outside of maybe our conscience consciousness, but. By us doing this isn't this just natural selection in volition in action. That we are just nature solving itself in that nature is selecting for us in by the processes of whichever Lucien works. We are selecting for those who will succeed us. And this statement, I said it, and I didn't realize seed I had just planted in my own head because a c- kept me up. Kept me up in a kept me up. And I got like three hours of sleep last night. And it's like not even that big of a deal. Right. But there is a big deal here. Because the the the class was stomped and there were various responses, but I didn't really find any of them. Useful. And that happens from time to time because I don't really know where I was going with it either. It was just more to get some food for thought in there and the. Issue. Why realize I was running into was determine isil. Because here's what I suggested. Now that I thought about it. I suggested nature is playing its course. And there's nothing we can do to stop it. Determinism dictates that everything that happens would have happened. No matter what. That you have no free will. And we are just the products of nature's laws laws of physics laws biology, the laws of chemistry whole thing. Now, if you don't believe in free, will and you. Don't clean issue with the notion that we are just these over gore fight test tubes. Bumping around in. Our environments issue bother you at all. In fact, it should seem like a pretty strong argument for you philosophically. But I don't like determinism. I don't like the notion that we don't have free will. And a lot of the reasons why go back to that last episode. I did I don't like subjectivity. I don't like the idea of blowing our entire conceptions of Justice and morality out of the water. I like the idea of there being good and an evil because that suggests that I can make the world better place, and I have choice in doing. So I like that I have autonomy. I'd like to think that I have this belief system that allows me. Autonomy that allows me to make a Mark that I have control on on the world and most of my episodes, so far I've talked about some I've talked about pretty much only ideas that I don't like when I've talking in regards to philosophy mainly development arguments against them. The reality is that my my argument against a terminus is one that's out of necessity. Because if if we are just creatures that are operating under the laws of natural selection have Aleutian both of which are theories, I do believe to be true. Then. Where is there room for things like morality injustice and autonomy? Are we just beings of our own environments? This is where you can see subject tippety in action because. What you see is the environment. That surrounds me influencing how I see the world. And being unable to make rectifications. As to why my viewpoint is any better than others. I make an argument against terminals out of necessity because I believe that instilling the idea at the terminus into society as a whole will cause a collapse of society as we understand it probably a little alarmist and has probably not going to happen. But that is my strongest case forward. Against the terminus a right now. And I hope that changes. I hope that changes. But. Onta logical arguments and spirit and otherwise spiritual arguments for why ISM can't be true. Have not persuaded me yet. But the thing is that if you earn science in any form, especially biological though, deeper you get into it, the less likely, it seems. Because everything does come down, the chemicals, and you can throw things out of whack. Easily. And if you don't believe me. Take a shot of Bata. And you'll know what I mean. And if we're so easily control than we are these over glorified test tubes. We've been doing it wrong for thousands of years. Now, a lot of Christians struggle with this idea because there's this desire. I believe this is for other religious groups as well, there's desire that we're special. We want to be special inspired by God created specifically by God. He intervened to bring us into the world onto his image. Then we win screwed everything up. It's a cute idea. But I just don't believe it to be true. Is there? Room for Tana me. Because if it is true. That we are just products of interest lotion dilution that there's nothing morally wrong with, you know, us beginning to edit the genomes of our species because we are just the products of natural selection of religion. Then we have to put subjectivity into play. And when you put subjectivity into play, how do you determine morality how do you determine what is good? You know, I've talked about this extensively about good beings objective about good being nothing, but a guess about finding a measurable. Ruler or standard for goodness. Talked about these things. So I don't want to repeat myself agnosio him something I do want to say. Is that if we? Can't argue our way out of subjectivity. We have to look deeper into the differences of humanity in wrestle with the idea of equality. Because societies have functioned in different ways. They have old anxious -ociety have affected monitor societies in different ways. And they have all the created different people groups in different ideas, different philosophies, different government systems etcetera, etcetera etcetera. And the. Naive belief that we are all. I don't wanna see equal. What we can all get along that we're more alike than we are different may actually be put into question. Because when you tell is Saudi, but they are more alike than different to intersectional feminist, do might not be surprised at the Saudi looks at you and goes, no, we're not. And we would have to actually question whether or not valid validity to that point. Because if we are just beings undergoing just evolution than people from different areas of the world underwent different pressures and came out with different viewpoints. It would mean the environment means everything. In that all we are is a continuation of nature's ever continuing stream in fight for superiority. In that the good. Measurably is not measurable by how much good you've done in the world by our current standards who ends up eliminating everyone else. And I believe it's a bad idea to lead that Seib into our culture. And I believe it's a bad idea to let the underlying motions for what allows for that. I that belief system to perpetuate in everything we do as previously discussed the last episode. And I hope you see why to. Unfortunately, the best argument I have against. Determine ism. In morality is out is an argument out of necessity and can help me form an argument that is either more logical. I'll just say that is more logical. Please let me know on Twitter Instagram adjusting pot. Now with a lot. So although I hadn't wind down the show a little bit. Already checked out the web page totally showed there's some exclusive content. There check it out. It's great. I'm trying to bring more writers on yada, yada, yada, yada. I'm sure you've heard a million times you don't wanna hear it again. But really do check out the website. Also on the website. You can donate if you'd like it helps support the podcast we have fees here. Or you could buy a sticker other merch depending on when you're sending. And then. We are working on getting ourselves onto more platforms. There are a couple. I added today. Radio public podcasts employer. FM I have confirmed. Just thank as on. If you want to share with your friends who are using those platforms. Working on getting on iheartradio. And then we will have guests on prom. I'm hoping next week for sure and then hopefully couple of weeks after that. So expect more bonus episodes of content doesn't get too stale. Do want to continue this conversation. Thank you for listening. My name is Taylor eland. I hope you have a wonderful week share the podcast with your friends leave a review on ITN's. If you're so inclined. But more importantly, all I want you to do is just think I'll catch you in the next one.

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What does "Idaho" actually mean?

Ridiculous History

26:42 min | 2 years ago

What does "Idaho" actually mean?

"You know, sometimes you just don't get your way. But what really matters are the choices that you make when the odds are stacked against you. Well, we ridiculous history would like to introduce you to a new show from how stuff works called the brink wherein hosts aerial Casten and Jonathan Quist are Strickland. Share the stories of entrepreneurs who took a bold step without really, knowing if solid ground would be on the other side, give a listen to how Walt Disney bet company and his house on the world's first feature length cartoon or how a refugee from Vietnam turned adore business into a chili sauce empire. Every week. The brink will bring you new stories of trials and triumphs about people who didn't let adversity stop their dreams. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or ever else. You listen to podcasts. Welcome to the show. Ridiculous historians longtime listeners amongst us. May remember that some time ago? My co host are super producer Casey peg room. And I decided that we were going to hell or high water do one episode for every state in the US, and we're sticking to our guns or attempting to we're not gonna Sufiane Stevens this, right? Don't you say that every time? Then right. I know I just want him to make the other what forty eight albums. Yeah. No. I don't think he ever intended to do any of that employs, you know, to be fair doing thirty minute podcast on a state is a lot different than doing like a, you know, an album. So let's give sufi on a break. You're right Nolan. Perhaps it depends on how much work goes into an album night is records are quite baroque. Yes, he's going for baroque every time. So today's episode is a little bit of a weird would we are talking about an origin story, but not so much an origin story of state as an origin story of a state's name yet. What's in a name turns out quite a lot and a lot of disagreement and a lot of a fraudulent claims and all kinds of stuff. This is you know on the surface seems could be a dry episode. Not the case, my friend. Not the case quite UC. There's a bit of a mystery here as well. I guess one of the best ways for us to start off. Today's episode is just by knowledge ING, something that is an unspoken truth here in the US state names are weird they feel relatively arbitrary at times. And there is not a ton of cohesive, coherent logic or uniformity involves right Nastro. Got like New York, right? That makes sense. There was a another York somewhere. And this is the new one clearly the better York. It's clearly it's definitely the the latest model. There's no New York. But then they're states like Mississippi, they're states like Hawaii their states. Like, I don't know. I don't know. How do you feel about this the states that are named in relation to other states? North Dakota, South Dakota seems like a cop out to me. There's no just Dakota. No, yeah. Exactly. North Carolina and South Carolina. Carolina believe was named after a monarch yet and then oddly enough, Virginia and West Virginia. Snow east Virginia, also true. That's weird. They could it's a weird thing. Well, because as it turns out, most of these state names were done by committee. So as as typically happens when things are done by committee, you end up with something convoluted that no one really likes that much. But people kind of settle on. Oh, yeah. Like a in the nineteen ninety six Olympics. Here in Atlanta, Georgia, creepy gut. Yeah. What was that guy's name? What's it is? He is he thank you. So sort of looks like a weird little is like blue drop is a blue like exactly like a blue droplet of water with legs Saturn rings around him and big tennis shoes through the Olympic reeks down. Sorry, excuse me. Of course, they are. How can I be? That's the point. It was so random looking. They didn't even read that way to me. Yeah. It was just the guided by committee probably some overpriced market agency. Yeah. So someone's gotta have shoes he's got to have the ring somewhere. He's got to be a weird little water droplet alien guy because people wear shoes they get thirsty and with the Olympic, and they love alien aliens is e that was his name. I forgot that completely turns out short for Israel. Is it now is it? But that is our wonderful IT guy. You heard how stuff works goes by Izzy which is short for Israel. Yes. That is true. I call the name I use. With is depends upon the severity or immediately of the requests. Yes. So it's it's is if we're just hanging out it's easy. If we're hanging out outside of work, and it's Israel if it's like in an Email. Gathered people reading escalate it he and I both have to be grown up. So the name Idaho that fits in right in this weird. Motley Crue of various fifty various names that came about for various reasons often she said by committee, but unlike many other states, it's difficult for us to figure out exactly what the name means. We're telling you the truth folks here in twenty nineteen one of the most intriguing mysteries of Idaho. History is the origin in meaning of the name the name of the state in which you might be listening to this episode right now. So no have you ever been to Idaho? No, I haven't been and you know, what I'm this is I'm gonna put it out there right now, in my mind, I sometimes confuse it with Ohio because of the name, and I know they are geographically couldn't be less related. I am not good at g. Geography, though, my friends I am here to tell you that right now. So Ben give us the scoop on the geography of Idaho. Sure. So I'd Aho is bordered on the to the west by Washington and Oregon to the east Montana, Wyoming and vodka in Utah to the south. And then at the very small attenuated top of the state boom it runs straight into Canada. I've heard of that. Yes. Yes. Casey, Casey peg room, super producer, Casey pay have you ever been to Idaho? No, my only I was just thinking about this. My only like association with Idaho in general is a early built to spill song called twin falls, Idaho. Wow. So my own private item. Well, but I think it was actually a beef to song for okay? Okay. Live in in your own private, Idaho. And the yeah, the builds bills like Christmas, twin falls I- ho sue pretty sad song actually Casey on the case. Yeah. That was a great deep cut to. I am built to spill fin myself yet. I have not as of yet traveled to Idaho that I can recall. I know it sounds sketchy. But yeah, yeah. I'm seventy percent. Sure. I haven't been there. But the past is a watercolor in the rain, you know, things blur. Which brings us back around to the speculation about Idaho's name. Even though it seems like it would fit in you know, it. It sounds similar to many other states, right? Turns out that we have relatively little idea of where the name Idaho came from. We have some theories we have some theories and the biggest most lasting theory revolves around a kooky mining lobbyist by the name of George. Am willing. It is put forth in the record that he suggested the name, Idaho and said that it was a native American word that meant the gem of the mountains. And this was actually surrounding the naming of what is now Colorado. So this is a whole saga that kind of gets this this this name gets sort of kicked around a little bit. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about the background of George MAURICE willing junior known as Dr his friends. He was born sometime around eighteen twenty nine to a very well off family in Philadelphia. He was educated as a. Physician but he got in trouble. He got disgraced because he was discovered performing performing abortions. Right. That is true visited I know. And so in the early eighteen fifties moves to California to escape potential legal complications and by the late eighteen fifties. He's resettled to Saint Louis, Missouri. He becomes part of the Pike's peak gold rush in eighteen fifty nine. He was described as a man of many interests good geologist, polished gentleman, he became a candidate for the Jefferson territory delegation in October eighteen fifty nine he lost the election. But he still despite losing the election. Check this out. He just goes to DC anyway and becomes a lobbyist. And then while he's working as a delegate lease. According to the story, he's the one associated most. Strongly with the name Idaho would have been in the earliest days of lobbying wouldn't have been. I it was nothing like it is today. Right. You know, it was nowhere near as closely. Regulated you know what I mean? So it's suggested by willing and some other people early in eighteen sixty as an alternative name for the territory that finally became known as Colorado. And as you said, no, it was represented as being a term meaning gem of the mountains, which some people love that's true. But it didn't fly at that particular time and a little time went by and Idaho was not forgotten because it just had a certain I don't know certain mouth feel to right, Ben. Yeah. Let's also consider willing. Again, we can't overemphasize. This isn't really supposed to be there. The the miners aren't even supposed to have a delegate, but people are becoming increasing fans of this Fraser, this buzzword or this. Term in the halls of DC. I'm Katie golden. I studied psychology and biology at Harvard, and I pretend to be a bird on Twitter and my new podcast creature feature. We've you nature in man from a new perspective each episode asking comedian to get inside the minds of animals, so we can explore the startling connections to human psychology, you'll find blood bands and treachery that make game of thrones seemed like a dumb show for babies. Join this every Wednesday and subscribe on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. There's a good in Williams who has interactions with both political groups in these different mining camps, and he's really digging the name, Idaho. And some something important is happening at this point to the sixty elections out of the way Lincoln is president. And there's this blockade that has existed against creating new territories, right? And this this blockade begins to clear, so while the southern states are ramping up towards secession. There's an Idaho Bill for the pikes. Peak minds that was printed by the house on December eighteenth eighteen sixty and at this week, it's complicated. This Williams guy pushes lobbies congress to alter it. Colorado territorial Bill that they've been sitting on for months and to change the name of that territory from Colorado to Idaho. And then when this happened when this came up and this new name was proposed in the Senate, a Senator from Oregon objected, and then another guy says James green Senator James green says Idaho's very good name in the Indian language. You know, it means gem of the mountains. And this guy from Oregon says, no, no, no, no, no, no quote. I did not believe it is an Indian word it is a corruption. No Indian tribe in this nation has that word in my opinion. It is a corruption certainly a counterfeit and not to be adopted, and let's remember to the states out. Hopefully, I'm not like overly simplify Mus something. I I have a tendency to do sometimes, but the states would begin their lives as territories. When enough miners would come in. And they realized there were enough natural resources there to justify a colony of minors. And then as more and more people came and more and more infrastructure was created the population would boom and. Enough to justify calling it a state or they would be a whole nother series of discussions would form around. Okay. Now, it's going to transfer from being a colony territory to actually being a proper state and having a name. Yeah. We know we knew that especially in this period of history released more so than in the modern day groups of people will get together pitch ideas for states like in our previous episode about US states that never actually happened. There are so many conversations throughout the US historical record about people trying to make the name of his state or create their own state when someone else's claiming the same land the thing that happens, though, is that the Senate at first the approved this change, they say, okay, we'll change it from Colorado to Idaho. 'cause Williams really wants at that way. But Williams get suspicious, you know, like this Senator lane is from Oregon, right? He's on the west coast. He is probably fairly well acquainted with the languages of indigenous people at the time, and he seems very certain this is not a real word. So he looks into the matter. And that's when he finds out that I'd Aho's not a word, or it's not a it's not an existing word in an existing language, but Williams was largely ignored in the first place to because he was like the vice presidential candidate of the pro slavery wing of the Democratic Party, which was not a good look. So he was kind of, you know, just get this guy out of here. You know? So they may have been just making fun of him right and the beginning. So this is when he learns that George m willing or one of his supporters had just invented the word along with the notion of its definition about a year before. And so Williams hunts up another Senator in eastern Senator guy named Henry Wilson, Massachusetts. And he says we please change the name back to Colorado and February fourth eighteen sixty one. The Senate says, okay, we'll change it to Colorado. And before the house did anything about its Idaho. Bill the Colorado Bill passed in the Senate, and then the representatives passed the Colorado Bill, and so the house Bill never was acted on and the name Idaho received. No further consideration for Colorado, which became a territory on February twenty eighth eighteen sixty one. But the thing was sort of in a Pandora's box kind of situation people like the word people in what will become Idaho, or in that territory are digging it it's already a popular phrase in the Rockies and in the Pacific northwest. And it's kind of like, I don't know if you've ever heard this. Are you familiar with the ice cream franchise Haagen-Dazs or so? Oh, Haagen-Dazs is a made up word. No, really. Yes. They just wanted something that sounded like vaguely Scandinavian. So it'd be a little more classing, Idaho. Kind of like this people are swearing to one another up and down that it is a word from a language of native people who have lived in this area of the world. So like, you said been to that point this word, Idaho was already out of the box. It was floating around. It was in the side guys and people thought it sounded nice because of the mouth feel and it's just Indian sounding Ness so in December of eighteen sixty one there was a territorial legislature of Washington, and it created Idaho county, and that as we mentioned the geography of Idaho borders, Washington state, so in originally was part of Washington state, but then it became its own state. And there's another player and kind of keeping this Idaho word alive guy by the name of Joaquin Miller who wrote the poet of the Sierras where he's. Spelled it Edo. And he claimed that it meant the light or diadem on the line of the mountain, which is a little bit more of a high falutin way of saying what was the original one been the gym of the mountain? They keep in mind. These are mining concerns this. That's true. So I think at this point the original CRA full with willing had been largely forgotten and but the word the name kind of lived on right yet. And at this point we do want to profile a little bit there. There's some background context the willing character that come into play here. Willing was involved in a number of frauds? One of the most Torius being something called the AirAsia Peralta land grant fraud in which he played a despicable part. He also was associated forgers. He was guys. Similar to so many other con artists that we have talked about in past episodes and you'll hear different alternate theories that he met a young girl named Ida and that inspired the name or that it actually is a corruption of a indigenous peoples language, the Kyowa Paci term, I die. He which meant enemy that doesn't really measure up in my opinion that last one I could see state being named after person that's happened before. But I can't see state being named enemy you want. Something a little more positive, right? You do. People say necessity is the mother of invention. But that's not always true. Sometimes the mother of invention is advertising. Yeah. Or pure accident. How about ego maniacal delusion? Absolutely. Or just a desperate longing. To be cool. I'm Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. We're the host of the science podcasts stuff to blow your mind. Now, we're branching off into the exploration of invention. Invention is the story of human history told one piece of technology at a time the things we made and how they made us invention publishes every Monday, listen and subscribe to invention on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. We know this battle that happened. Ultimately was a battle fought in the public sphere in terms of public opinion and public use of the phrase, and that's why the term Idaho was first used to refer to Idaho is a state instead of Idaho springs or some other area in eighteen sixty three Williams went on to do some more shenanigans. Yeah. Sure did. And let's not forget to that. At this point a lot of lawmakers that may be had there breaches in bunches about this in the first place where a little more preoccupied with the the civil war than than coralling about state names and made up Indian words, right, right? And so that's kind of how is slid in under the radar because people were so worried about this burgeoning war between the states that they didn't really have time nor the clinician to worry about what they saw as a relatively. Benign concept, like the the name, I home. And so I'd Aho just like kind of a Haagen-Dazs stuck around sounded close enough to the thing that it was purporting to be that more and more people began using it and some of the same senators who remembered that last naming incident when they figured out that it was a made up name. We're the same senators who were like, hey, we have to figure out the civil war thing. So just just let it ride maybe we can fix it later. Maybe we can kick the can down the road and kick the can they did because it is twenty nineteen an Idaho is the states, they it's not going to change anytime. Sue now, it's true. And this is not even the most egregious example of a naming fraud you ever heard of Montpellier Illinois who'll I have heard the name. What's the what's the skinny on that? Yeah. Turns out that the name and as Casey off Mike just pointed out it would be more properly. Pronounced montpelier was something of a practical JR. Joke. Father jock Marquette in sixteen seventy three encountered some members of the Peoria Indian tribe, and that was near the mouth of what would today be called the demo- lines river, and he asked them to give him the name of a nother tribe of rivals that lived further down the river, and the Peoria leadership told him that they were called the Moines Guana, and that became the roots for Moines, but Michael McCafferty of Indiana University discovered that in the Miami Illinois language, which is now no longer. It's a deadline guage. This actually would have been translated to faces. And apparently, nobody in Illinois government in the city of Des Moines has acknowledged that this is the case, but the research stance interesting stuff, so I guess having a made up name is maybe a little less embarrassing than having a name that translates to something so derogatory, that's a great point. And as many of us are thinking as realistic this up right now most actually all words are made up at some point. We all agreed various factions of us throughout the human species. Agreed that this word means this thing, you know, what I mean, like hand means that thing at the end of your arm, shoe means thing that goes over your foot. An Idaho is one of the fifty states of the United States of America day go and that is our episode for today. How many states how many states have we done? Now. Are there any? Intrepid ridiculous stories that wanna do the tally and shoot us. An Email it ridiculous it how stuff works com. That'd be cool. We love to hear from you. Because otherwise now be completely honest with you here folks, otherwise we'll get halfway through an episode. And then realized that we have in fact already covered that state. It's okay, whatever it takes to get the show out as long as it's a good story too. So thank you in advance for sending us that note. We want to hear the interesting stories of place names in your neck of the global woods. We'd also of course, like the think of super producer Casey peg REM, and maybe you know, maybe we could go for a road trip to Idaho, windy, student also like to thank Alex Williams who composed our theme. Gabe, our research associate who kept us to this topic. You can check me out on Instagram at embryonic insider, you can find our show on Instagram as well on Twitter and Facebook of you can find your fellow listeners on our Facebook community page, that's ridiculous story ins and. If you what to hang out with me. See some pictures of weird adventures and. Lie. Oversized cats, you can find the at bed bullet on Instagram. We'll see you next time, folks. Hello. My name is Kevin Pollack. Yes. The award winning funny fellow from that film. And or TV thing that makes you smile every darn time. You see it, folks. Did you know, I've got a new comedy podcast that was created with you and mine 'cause I do it's called alchemy this, and it was designed with a single purpose, you laughing a lot I'm talking please. Let someone else drive when listening if you enjoy laughing. Uncontrollably while running errands exercising or building crispy cream doughnut machine in your basement from parts you stole while working there. As an assistant manager, oh, buddy. Boy, I've got the comedy podcast for you each episode. I'm the puppet master who sets the scene, and then five genius improvisers, and I will make you laugh and feel better alchemy. This the new funny podcast from me. Kevin pollick? Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or. Wherever you listen the podcast.

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Deep Learning with Structured Data w/ Mark Ryan - #301

This Week in Machine Learning & AI

39:29 min | 1 year ago

Deep Learning with Structured Data w/ Mark Ryan - #301

"As we gear up for Tomo Conway platforms now less than two weeks away. I've been out and about talking about the importance of automating accelerating and scaling machine learning in a Ah in the enterprise now. I'm usually the one doing the interviewing so being on the other side for a change was a nice experience much. Thanks to my friends. Alex Williams uh-huh host of the new stack makers podcast minter dial host of the popular podcast mentor dialogue and James Maguire of data mation a had a great time. I'm chatting with each of them and I encourage you to check them out via the tuomo com blog at Tuomo con dot com slash news and while you're there be sure to check out the latest speakers and agenda agenda updates and if you haven't already registered take that step to secure your ticket for what's shaping up to be an amazing event and now onto the also all right everyone. I am on the line with Mark Ryan. Mark is the author of deep learning with structure data a book that is currently an early access with manning and due for publication in the Spring of two thousand twenty mark welcome to the podcast cast. Thank them it's great to be here. Also let's get started by talking a little bit about your background and in particular deep learning with structure the data that is a topic that you know folks are starting to talk about and in fact via the meet up group in Association Association with The podcast we have a fair amount of experience exploring this through the fast. Ai Steady groups that we do that's a a big part of one of the lessons in in that course but I love to get a sense for you know how you came to be interested in this particular topic enough to write a book about it sure sure sample. My academic background is from artificial intelligence a couple of winters ago so I studied studied at U. T. With Graham Hurst back in the late eighties and it was all symbolic. Ai Back then and there were some interesting use cases. This is but you know I it it to alert extent it. it didn't work and I went to work for IBM had a had a great career there learned a great deal spent a lot out of time in DB two relational database product from IBM and about two thousand sixteen became evident to me that Arthur's intelligence was starting to work there were things that were actually working became general general knowledge and that reignited the spark in me so I did the Android intro tro course and the fast. Ai Course so would had introduction to to deep learning and I was very interested in deep learning in the promise of that and one of the things I found a little a bit frustrating as a lot of the use cases particularly outside of the context of the fest fast. Ai Course where to do with images or or audio they they weren't structured data and what I was looking for is can I find a way to use this in my my day to day work because this looks like it'll be very useful and I wanted to learn more about it and the best way to learn about it is to use data sets that you're familiar with so when I did the fast. Ai Carson this would have been version one of course who has been through a couple of iterations since then and and there's the section on doing deep learning with with structured data and not really sparked my curiosity. I thought wow this is this is really cool so they got to look around for some code to have starter kit to get to get going and it wasn't easy to find but there were some. Kaga competitions people had been working on structured data sets. Let's not applying it to deep learning and some very elegant Little Zainal's that Rothman stores and the like exactly exactly and I was really impressed by some of the work that I saw they're very elegant very very straightforward and good for me at the stage then to get started start doing some coding and at the time I was responsible both for the support organization for DB two so there were there's tons of data there hundreds of tickets coming in every day lots and lots of data and and I thought you know it'd be good if we could apply deep learning to this to sort of see can do some predictions that are useful so I built up a prototype model to to predict how long a ticket would take to get closed and that's you know seem reasonably well and then did another projects taking what I've learned to predict duty manager calls so those cases were a client reaches a point of frustration and says I'm done. I'm going to pick up the phone and get get something happening with this particular problem so applying what I'd seen from some of the colonel's in cable and using the data that was available credit these prototypes and I've learned a lot doing that and they were they out fairly well but one of the problems with with those prototypes was that the data was obviously proprietary couldn't share that in there's a very strong ethic. Is You know in in machine learning data science to share results so I started to look for more general data set that I could use to apply deploying structured data and I Britain a few blog posts on medium about my experience with the the predicting time to resolution and predicting duty manager calls and Manning got in touch with me and said. Would you like to write a book kind of pulled us together and I know that sounds interesting sure it's it has been a lot of work. It's and certainly certainly learned a lot in the course of doing that and one of the things done is create a the sort of a full end to end example using an open data site which is to do with the streetcars in Toronto Toronto's might my hometown now and it has a very extensive streetcar network. These are a light rail system that runs on regular roads and they're great. They're efficient. They're readily cheap to run their cheap to create much cheaper than subways. The problem is because they share the roads with regular traffic if they break down and there's a delay it really exacerbates gridlock so so the city of Toronto publishes a data set that describes all of the delays that have happened for the last five years and I thought well I'm going to roll my sleeves and to try to create a simple deep learning model to analyze this data and see even come up with predictions too. I know predict where they're going to be straight guard delays and hopefully be able to prevent them so that was kind of the the path I took and that's how that was the genesis for the book and so should I assume that that that worked that you were able to come up with a model that predicted Streetcar Delays or predict the Streetcar Delays with that data set yeah it does it does a decent job. It's not a huge data set there about ninety thousand records right now okay so there's some limitations but certainly for the purposes of of helping somebody who's going to be taking a trip. It's you know the the accuracy is is is good enough to be to be useful but more importantly for the in in terms of as a learning exercise. I think it's it's it's useful because it's an open data set. It's big but not so big. You have to deal with the problems of a of big data it. It's very messy so there's a lot of work to be done to prepare. The data. Which I think is a is a is a good learning experience and it. has there's different kinds of data text data. There's categorical data. There's some continuous data so it has a lot of the it's it's big enough to be interesting but not so big. It's overwhelming. Wyoming and I think it's you know it kind of makes a decent end to end example to go through the go through the topic awesome awesome jumping back to do the couple of projects that you worked on when you're at IBM in particular this looking how long it took to close tickets when I think think of a trouble ticket use case and when I think of that trouble ticket use case I think of you know not just a structure data is being useful but also the content of the ticket itself so textual data more like the application of NLP. Did you use only Meta data about tickets to predict the close time or did you also use that content. That's a great question so I did use the content. There's all the tickets had had a description description could sometimes be two lines like you suck a little more elaborate than that. Sometimes it'd be a paragraph of of lots of detail but that description was really essential because that's the initial customers sense of what what they found and that was had a simple pull the the model included a simple recurrent neural network to deal with that data so it's the that that text field this this was token is used embedding and then there was a layer in Arnhem layer that was applied in the overall model to to take that that text into account account and it was interesting the the difference they did some experiments including not as a feature and then excluding it because it was it was fairly expensive it it added some some links to the the time to train the model and it made a reasonable difference like it was you know between free and four percent the accuracy if this if this field is included and the really exciting. I thought that's that's really something the other thing. Is that these enhancements so that particular field is the description field so all of the text of the ticket. It always just description. The text of the ticket was wasn't available to me at that time so it wasn't worth sometimes that there there could be the equivalent you want to have a hundred pages taxed so all always dealing with textwise was the was the description so it could be up to five hundred five hundred six hundred characters altogether got any so that's typically the the textual description of the issue either has provided by the initial customer. Who's WHO's omitting the ticket or whoever the support rep is that is taking their call it would always be the customer and that that was an okay wait is intentional to say and I was part of the whole idea of the model was only take data that was available when a ticket I hit our system okay so and not description would be there. There are other things obviously like whether the ticket had changed and severity that wouldn't be available when the ticket was first opened because that's kind of a data leakage problem you start to takeover and say oh that looks use data that you don't actually have available to you when you're making a prediction but the textual description of the problem coming from the client was always there in the ticket was open and that that was the that was one of the features that was fed into the model okay so you said that the importance of this feature is this this features presence gave you an additional three percents increase in accuracy that is relative to what without it how much of an impact did it have so that was the indy in terms of the absolute accuracy so I think at that time it was probably going from seventy three to seventy six percent percent accuracy leaving taking that field outer or leaving it in which I think says a lot about the the the power I guess of doing deep learning with the structure data that adding the text of the descriptive text of the ticket only gave you an incremental three percent percent accuracy in terms of predicting how long it'll take to close to ticket is at a reasonable interpretation as well yeah. That's that's right. I guess at the time I saw so you know it's it's relative very I was. I was very happy at had that increase but you're right that the the portion of the data would have traditionally been dealt with with deep learning was only one of the fears that was going into the model and that feed by self want made a difference it it was relatively small proportion of the difference in terms of the accuracy yeah yeah. I would have thought that without text it would be very hard to solve this to solve this problem with any any degree of accuracy interesting out of curiosity acidy. Did you try training a model only on descriptive text to see if you were able to get any results on wondering if there's a scenario where if you didn't have it you know if you add it only three percent incremental accuracy but you could get a good part of the way there if you didn't have any of the other things either. That's a really good question. I didn't try that but that's that's an interesting question. I guess in this may be kind of a primitive way of thinking about it but because there were I guessing for another thirteen or fourteen features that were available and sometimes this text was fairly short thought well. This'll make it'll it'll have some impact but that by itself it probably wouldn't be enough to actually come up with a reasonable reasonably accurate description and then just looking at some of the at some of the descriptions they were pretty pretty cryptic but something I just wanted to mention is that these weren't even all in English so they were there were fair number in Japanese or Chinese and just given the aggregated size of the data set. It wasn't massively huge about about a little over a million records it. It's still it's still made a difference like it still provided some some benefit and I see that I know some people kind of critical of the idea of using plenty kind of backing up the dump truck data and just typing it out and seeing seeing what comes out but at the same time it was I was I was impressed by what could be done without doing a whole lot of monkeying around with the data it was just sort of taking the destructor data as it was applying a relatively simple model to it getting you know not not not bad results I was I was impressed. I was impressed by that and particularly because there have been so little I didn't fast. Ai Course so a little spoken about in terms of using deep learning with with structured data so we tend to think of a rightly so deep learning as requiring ton of data it certainly exacerbated by the fact that you know some of the things that deep learning is really good at our you know images which can be large speech which can be a large files structure data can be a lot more compact compact but when we think of the number of rows or examples that you're feeding into a model is do you require less less data from a examples arose perspective to train a deep learning model accurately on structure data or is it kind of about the same uh-huh but the data's just more compact. That's a good that's a good question I I'd say that to get a the the rule thank you that you need tens of thousands of records to have a starting point is probably applicable as applicable to structure data as it would be to unstructured data it's interesting one of the things that hurt his critique because certainly there are people who said don't don't use deepening construct data and I'm thinking well. We'll why because that's where Oh my problem spaces as the job I'm trying to do is all about structured data yet. Don't you set US use extra boost use use something you something simpler and alive and somebody answers. I got back. Were while the structured data sets are too small. They're not big enough to actually apply deep learning and I think that's a bit of Canard because is there are some huge structured data sets of their their data set certainly with it in the world of detour which is all about structured data zoltan structure tabular data Shirahama only had commonly tables with billions of records in them so that that objection I think is a little bit It's a little bit shortsighted obviously August. You're not GONNA get great. Results with tiny data sets whether it's structured unstructured but I think as as an objection to attempting to use deepening with structured data the data size really is is not not material to the decision about whether it's worthwhile or not. Did you attempt to apply extra boost store any other method to this kind of problem I did I did so I tried extra boost onto of those problems that I described and it was a I guess one thing that is that is true. The results were not significantly better for deep learning so I think that's one of them. That's one of the arguments people say. It's not a great idea to use. defunding structure. Data is if there's a simpler way to do it that isn't as the doesn't have the complexities the picnics of of deep learning than why not do that the and I think there's there's some something to be said for that but at the same time if I'm looking looking down the road a little bit the amount of the effort that it takes to get a reasonable results with extra boost versus deep learning particularly human effort required for it. I'm I'm not convinced that extra boost is going to Fr. Example is going to be the winner there as there's been so much attention on the efficiency of tools related to deep learning the libraries are getting better the attention flow to plano coming out making things much more straightforward and simpler. I think some of the objections elections are are a little bit out of date and they're certainly cases additional cases where a non deep learning approach could produce better results than maybe the the right way to go. I guess the argument I'm making is that people keep an open mind about applying deep learning structure data and I think particularly as the the human cost is required to get results becomes bigger and bigger factor may find that deep learning has more applicable to to structured data to keep an open mind about it yeah yeah no. That's a really interesting point. I think we've got an entire conference coming up on the two laying in in and technology platforms that are allowing enterprises to increasingly automate and make their ability to deliver deep learning models and production in as well as traditional machine learning models in a production more quickly and efficiently and I think that's only going to serve to reduce the the barriers and as you mentioned the frameworks are getting more powerful and easier to use and so now you've got this this you know yes kind of more opaque method but one that is highly automated in a sense that you don't need a a lot of manual feature engineering to get good results versus one that requires a lot of human investment to get the same level of results comparable results as that barrier to entry on the deep learning side is reduced in addition to all the software tools and frameworks that are improving when you've got you know hardware. That's making cheaper to build these models on the compute side that's really going to tip the balance is what I'm hearing. You say yeah yeah I really. I really believe that's the case. I think this is something in the fast. Ai Course at Jeremy Howard said this topic people kind of scratched the surface of it and I think there's much more to be done there and obviously might approach. I'm trying to the beaten potatoes trying to solve problems approach but I'd hope that there are some researchers well people looking at it from from research pointed. You're saying what can be done at the other thing that I think a structured data highs. There's by definition structured data has very rich meditated so you have a a database where everything all of the the the tables and database are described in tables and it's very it's all tooled and instrumented to to be able to see what what everything that's there in the database and I think there's some potential for work. It's kind of exploratory. I could see something like a uh web crawling to go through a database in see are there is the potential for a useful model here and you could see situation whereas the the cost of compute drops have something that's running in the background sort of trying all sorts of different combinations of features in a large sale. Maybe some interesting results there and be able to do do that and that's something to structured data gives you you don't get from unstructured with you. Don't necessarily government structure data where there isn't that sort of rich metadata describing. What's what's what's there. we'll come back to the structure in just a moment but one of the you mentioned one of the points that Jeremy makes in the fast day course and that is is that in many of these examples particularly the chemical ones like Rothman stores competition you look at the leaderboard. Africa the details. I'm going to watch them. I you know out of the top you know. The top end a good number of them If not the top spots were folks that you know apply deep learning based approaches and the key takeaways and this is take them competing against data scientists with you know oodles of experience in in this particular retail domain and and in in many cases folks with no domain experience plus deep learning were able to outperform folks that you know brought domain experience in and you know handcrafted models to bear yeah yeah. That's a good observation end. Goal in a way can be if some artificial aspects of it but it's sort of it's rock capitalism and what works best rises to the top so yeah. I think there's there's potential there and percents some of the big players are doing this in their applications that I've heard of Google and Amazon are doing with the with structured data but it just doesn't seem to be something that's really front insider in terms of what people as both as they're learning about deep learning and great the researches it seems to be much more on the the unstructured that is not non tabular data side one of the other objections. I've heard isn't it. There's this humoristic thrown out there. That about eighty percent of the data in the world is unstructured so you know if that's the case if there's only one fifth of of data is structured then then how interesting is it to apply that still are there. It's a lot of data and I know from experience from working with a two. I know that the you know the world runs on it every bank every insurance company every every government depends on unstructured data relational database may not be sexy but it's it's it underpins our our modern lives so there's a lot of important data that's structured as well even if the volume isn't as much as I structured data. You're making the point that it's a the application of deep. Learning to structure data in particular is a topic that doesn't get a lot of play out there and it made me think of embedding which is one of the key techniques that are are used in applying deep learning to structure data when I heard about embedding through the fast at. Ai Course I don't know a couple of years ago now. You didn't hear a lot about it was in a couple of obscure papers and now everybody's doing it and talking talking about it and it's almost you know passe right. It's just a tool that we we pull out of the toolbox to solve a great deal a great number of problems there was just an article. I saw yesterday about stitch. Fix The the kind of clothing living styling in a box subscription company. created a model. I was talking about some of the different models that they use internally and and a lot of them are based on style and biddings and things like that and so kind of in that vein I suspect that will start to hear a lot more more about this and the fast courses just kind of ahead of its time once again but why don't we take a second to drill all into some of the you know how it works and kind of the details that you'll be talking about in the book. It's a manning books assuming it's GonNa be Kinda. Roll up the sleeves yes and kind of dig into I had to make all this stuff work and I I would assume that embedding is a a big you know one of the chapters in that book somewhere is at is the case absolutely absolutely so dealing with I guess this trait but the from there I started a one in hot encoding. I thought I hate this idea. I know it. I know it's necessary to us by thought. Wow you know this is a category with more than a dozen the values in it. This just gets crazy yet. Huge huge that Penn State of France for example and embedding 's give you away you can you can the young signed integer encoding to the values in a categorical feature and then use embedding to the to learn the relationship so you get away from having to use a one hot encoding and the inefficiencies they're involved. They're so yes just just in terms of what you said about embedding completely completely agree. It's a it's a very hot topic and the idea I think the the idea that something that came out of NLP has more broad applications is really interesting and the idea that you kind of you kind of get unsupervised learning not for free but as a as some some of the exhaust awesome from doing supervised learning it's all supervised learning problem you can use the embedding to come up with categorisations like movie categorisations for Netflix that kind of thing. That's that's really interesting. You get a bit of a two for one value one of the things that comes up frequently in our fast. Ai Study Groups as a point of confusion when we're talking about the structure data topic is kind of the relationship between embedding an embedding space perspective and the way it's using NLP and the embedding us any structure data problems. Do you have like is that real clear to you. Do you have a great way of explaining that well. I I guess with a with. NLP You can have you know a tens of thousands millions of values just get the number of individual words that are each with their own on individual embedding and then in a structured data problem where leaving aside textile features just talking about categorical features. You're going to a smaller number of individual values so the the embedding space may have a smaller dimension. You may have a if I could. I'd say simpler embedding space than you would dealing with NLP but the fundamental ideas is the same and I guess get back to your question before uh about about how this sort of how things work so as I mentioned the Book Has the Toronto Streetcar Data set as the the problem is being solved called so go through the process of cleaning that up so getting getting rid of bad values one of the things that I've learned over the course of doing this was some Geo coding so there are address values that describe where the problem occurred where streetcar breakdown where it was their delay and those address values just completely messy. They're they're totally free form in say a young young queen date their misspelled their references to to sort of known areas in Toronto so it's great it's very interesting problems have and took advantage of Google. Go coating at the I. to turn those values into loud in longitude values so that's probably that's the feature that required the most the most effort to get something coming out gather and and then for the categorical value so that would be for example the Streetcar Route The vehicle number the day of the week so Monday Tuesday Wednesday whatever whatever those get get translated to Integer ID's and then so all the all the categorical values get get translate that way text fields individual words get translated into ID's and then those get prepared it to be fed into a a fairly simple model but the thing that is a bit of innovation is that the model is the layers in the the model are automatically defined based on the columnists during the table the input table so if they're an all of the categorical columns get a set breath of layers in the model to get embedding layer and a number of other layers. If there are any text columns in in in the input data set they get AH getting batting's they also get a an R. N. N. Layer and then continuous values like temperature just kind of float through so that model gets built up layer by layer automatically based on the columns that aren't the input the input data set and that's in a nutshell how the how the model gets gets put together so this automated generation of the model. Is this based on on a tool that you've built. This is just just python code so there are There's part of the code is identifying which Collins of of the overall data set which calms are going to be used to train the model and then saying which columns are breaking into three categories categorical so those would be things like the day of the week a continuous Yup temperature over time duration and text so a description of a a problem for example. The sounds like you've built this tool that you point at a data set and it will almost like auto. MFL I create a model that at least as a starting starting place for making some predictions on a structure data as opposed to you know the book walking you through like how you would perform this analysis spy hand that's right so the book provides a the the idea of the book is to generalize a Little Bit so the the Streetcar Problem is used as an example but saying more generally. Here's how you deal with it but the attention of the code is that it could be applied to other structured data sets that it wouldn't be limited you did somebody could fairly quickly take a different structure. Richard Data set and apply the code and get a try it out to see how it worked with the different a different structure data set with different columns different a different mix of categorical text in continuous collins okay cool and how how are the chapters structured or they different features of this you know you building building up this python code or do you assume it from the beginning and you're talking more theoretically about these topics. How do you organize things things on semantics pretty big on being practical so they've day certainly encourage me to stay close to the code and this is one of the things and I know that you've and you've sponsored a number of sessions going too fast day. I Corps so you've seen that ethic there of really trying stuff that you know you get as soon as you can. Try Right applied in code and tried to do that in the book as well so introduced bits and pieces talk about pandas data frames is one of the essential items spent some time. We're not talking about the data set talk about the different steps. Take the need to take to clean up the data set including the Geo Coding problem that I talked about before and then a chapter on automatic how the the layers of the CHARISSA model are are automatically put together and that's that's one of the ones that's not said that I'm working on currently will be released a little bit later in the year. They'll be a a a section as you say talking a bit more detail on embedding 's where what role they play and the other thing of really want to do and this is this has been quite a challenge is have a as end to end a process as possible so we'll talk about. Here's how you deploy the model in. Here's how you get a little a little website that would let you pop in the description of a particular trip and get the prediction back whether or not that trip would incur a delay because that's one of the things that I've found in terms of the learning process. There was awful lot that Kinda took up to the point where you heads ex you had trained the model and had some sense of its performance and then things got a little bit sketchy. About how would you actually actually deployed. How would you get it into into not even production. Just get to the point for somebody else could use it play with it so I wanted. I definitely want to spend some time talking about some options for doing that. And taking the reader through Europe that particular process for for deployment model sounds awesome and so the you you've suggested this but the early access process or program at Manning is one in which you you are kind of incrementally posting chapters of the book and folks can kind of buy in early and get access to these chapters is that right that's right so they get they get access to the book and they get the the completed book the other part of it is supposed to to thing as well. There's the opportunity to make comments into into frame the the book either to say things that are that need to be corrected or or adjusted or make recommendations for topics to be covered later on in the book so so people who get involved early who take advantage of this have a chance to really not just be a passive participants but also contribute mute and be you know be be part of making the this book or other books that are in this program successful and meet the needs of the people who will be reading them. That's awesome yeah one of the things that really jumped out at me in this conversation. you know we keep kind of coming back to Fast Day. I think because you know I've seen it. Impact a lot of people myself included and you know I'm seeing in this conversation. You know how you you know. The echoes of that course are clear Erin. You know what you're doing here and kind of extending what you got out of that course now into a book and that's exactly you. You know how the chorus is kind of design that you you know you. There's a lot of self direction required to go through the course and really get the most out of it and a lot of that is taking the taking what's and applying it to to things and so that is awesome to see it is a great course. It's it's a fantastic opportunity really thing I learned so much going through it and also seeing it it. It comes up in all sorts different in context as well in the sessions that you've sponsored other people learning about about deep learning and it's not just the the course. It's also the the approach to teaching that saying they get don't get to the coding as quickly as possible and try different stuff and he's pretty pretty bold old as well and making a number of significant changes in the platform being used. That's a that's a lot of work and there's risk in that but it got the hat to the team the puts what's that course together. I think they've done a really a really really fantastic job and had a really big impact on the on the industry and on people's on people's lives people have learned a lot has been a it's been a ladder up for a lot of people into into a world is really exciting and really interesting and and really the important yeah absolutely absolutely. I would encourage anyone who you know hears US gushing over this course and his interested and taking the course to do so oh and Jeremy Howard who teaches the course always says that taking the courses best done with other people the people they do that are more successful and that's really why we with the support of a bunch of very dedicated volunteers have been doing I can't even count how many kind of cohorts of folks we've done through various versions of course there are several versions and then apart part one and a part two but hundreds of people now have participated in our study groups to just get support and working through these courses if you you know that's interesting to you encourage anyone who's listening to visit to me. I DOT COM slash meet up sign up for the meet up expressed interest in the study groups and if we don't currently have one running when you do that raise your hand in the slack channel in our slack and and express some interest and and you know we're we tend to pick these things off. You know when folks are interested in so with that mark. Thanks so much for for taking the time to share with us about the book. It sounds super interesting. Thank you salmon also. Thank you for the podcast. I've learned so much been in a fateful listener for for several years now and it's been a great asset. Learn a great deal so thank you very much for for all the rookie due to get the podcast. I really appreciate it wonderful to hear that. Thanks so much mark. Thank you all right everyone. That's our show for today. For more information information about today's show visit to me. I dot com slash shows remember less than two weeks to register for Tuomo Con. Ai Platforms so head over to CON DOT COM now. Thanks so much for listening and catch you next time world.

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A Good Life: Happiness and Adversity Ft. David Musgrave

Just Think

59:40 min | 1 year ago

A Good Life: Happiness and Adversity Ft. David Musgrave

"We are what we repeatedly do excellence, then is not an act, but I had it. My name is Taylor England. And I host the show called just thank I look into philosophy theology and other scientific allergies to figure out that underlying workings of an argument if you'd like to learn something new every week or getting both sides of theory. Go ahead and check us out on itunes Spotify. Google play music, Google podcasts along with various other networks on Sundays. All right, cool. So I'm here with David musk graves your last name, how you say it without the s so easy. Must graves has totally destroyed. My last name. It's just great people on it. Gotcha. My bad. So David musk grave from the people vs happiness is a show that. It's kind of like an interview style. Those you listen to my episode, Alex Williams, the same kind of thing, and he talks about people in happiness and different aspects of it. I ran into the show a couple of weeks ago. I've listened to a bunch of absurds it's pre legit. So feel free to check it out. But outside of that, what do you all about David? Yeah. That's pretty much it. I wanted to start having conversations with people around me that I found to be happy even trying circumstances or in different situations, or they're going to have a perspective that will be a little bit unique from my own. So that I could start kind of expanding my definition and understanding of happiness. I myself started the podcast because I was going through some tough times. You'll hear me talking my show about career changes in relationship changes in those kinds of things and throughout all of that I've had very positive experiences when some people may be what shutdown? And had less than positive experiences. And I felt like this have been me pretty much through my entire life have had a positive outlook. But I wanted to start really understanding, you know, why why are people able to do this? Why are we able to be happy under different circumstances? And just expand mine my knowledge of of that altogether. So people versus happiness, and it's the form of podcast. So that I could interview other people and have conversations in its volved a little bit since its inception. But that's the basic concept is that I've pop on Skype. Call or bring somebody into the studio who's willing to sit down to talk to me about Heather having s itself or something that's making them happy at the current given time. You can actually listen to the podcast, and it just searched the people vs happiness, or of course, on apple podcasts, Stitcher Spotify pretty much anywhere. You can get your podcast. You also love people to start getting a little more engaged in the conversation. So you can find as we are the people vs happiness on Facebook at the people vs happiness and Instagram or you can Email us directly at the people vs happiness g mail dot com. Malaria, go check him out. Cool quad gassed, I definitely recommend it. So you came on one and talk about happiness and trying times. And I thought that'd be a wonderful. It was a great segue into what I'm kind of going into the good life series that I have here because we've been talking about having this law and its locations and last week was about fulfilment, and you know, at some point you got to get to the heart stuff. You know what I mean? So. Yeah. So what does that look like for you? How do you wanna for this conversation? Yeah. Absolutely. So I it's kind of interesting of reading that I've been doing on modern research into happiness. So you think about really from a historical standpoint happiness, of course, been very important throughout history. But I really am inva- leaving the in the digital age, and the modern era we have entered into a time where happiness is an expectation instead of a luxury. So a lot of research is being. Done on happiness. And I think there's some really interesting things I've been reading about lately that account wanna talk about something that always comes up into the philosophy is happiness versus unhappiness. And are they direct correlation and something that was really interesting. I was reading about in the United States right now the research shows that if you're married, you're happier. Okay. So think about that for a second though, when whenever I read any kind of information about pretty much anything, I try to put a critical view on it is that a direct correlation because you're married. You're happier or people get married and stay married. Just happier in general, they just going to be happy people whether they're single or married or not and therefore that is make their partner a little bit a little bit happier. But why I wanna talk about that in and kind of modern times and trying times that we also have the highest mobile. Bowl. We're coming out of it. The divorce rates are starting to allow, but we definitely have had the highest divorce rates in history recently as well. So, you know, I think that that those things again, don't necessarily directly correlate. But it goes toward the next piece of that. Which is research shows that people who are alone versus having a social network around them at a lot of people around them are going to be much more on happy. So the more people you have around you the happier. You are. Okay. That's a face to face interaction. Leads into the x piece which really kind of has more to do with our topic. Which is we know that this next generation that was raised in the internet age has much more of a social interaction in digital online format in is that the same thing as a face to face interaction. Is it good enough to say that? Yes, I'm social because I have five hundred friends on Facebook. And I of wanted to your your point of view on it because I really liked the the snippet that you took from what your podcast talking about the more educated. You are. The less. Happy were cut some flack for that. One. Did you really I think it's a little bit of flack for that? Yet. I absolutely think that's very the most people loved it. Yeah. But. A little bit of flack. Yeah. It's because your eyes open up to the world, which was kind of where I know like all over the place, but I am trying to tie this all back into the which is in in trying times if an individual is constantly having an online presence, that's where their friends are. But then that's also where this this influx of information. This influx of news is coming from is it truly a happy experience. And I wanted to kind of get your thoughts on that. Because I feel like is very disconnected. Even though to very connected is disconnected from the real world from nature from people. But it's also a huge input of information that growing up. I'm thirty six years old. I didn't have that from a young age. So I'm very different person from someone who's gonna be growing up, and my happiness is going to be based on things that are a lot different from. From the next generation. What are your thoughts on that the generational differences between happiness? Yes. Well. It's hard because I've me, and I've lived in my whatever my little generational double. What's funny about my generational start? There is that we are like inbetween the nineties kids and the straight up like I gen-, you know, what I mean everything has been online because like nineties kids had the the really cool position of playing outside. But seeing the tech scene explode in front of them. And when I was growing up. On the tail end of that was going on. I had the benefit of lake living in a not so great area of the world. And we didn't have a lot of money. So I didn't have all the tech toys. Right. So I went outside and many of my friends did as well. But like when we were being raised was wind idea that if you go out alone or going to get -ducted was like just instilled in societies head, you know, at a maximum point like maximum repetition. You know, you're going to get you're going and get kidnapped. You're going you know, what I mean, they're going to get murdered. And then, you know, the helicopter parents started being the main source parents, and you couldn't go outside. You couldn't do whatever. And my parents bless their hearts, and maybe even good on them for some foresight. Didn't subscribe two hundred ten percent. You know what I mean? So when we moved onto the city. Yeah. There was like, you know, you need to be aware where you are you need to always be with people. You're not with people you need to be on busy street. You know, you need to know when to walk the other way went to like they taught me tools in which in. I if I encountered one of these various. Nations. Hopefully, I would get out of it. Okay. You know what I mean? But they also didn't like want me to live in this absolute crippling fear of society. And then it's like I remember in sixth grade for me, my space was big. And I thought my specials really cool little thing. I played around with it, even though I wasn't one of the right age. On. You know? I don't think we understood what this has potential to be. You know what I mean? So we just kinda play with it. It was more like the social media side of it kind of was more of a like garnish on our wife instead of so central to it. Now. Just enhanced the relationships that were already there. Yeah. And you only had relationships with people you knew you didn't go. There was like stranger dangerous real faith, even on the internet at this point. Now, you know, you've reached out to a stranger. No one gives a rat's ass. I mean here we are talking. You know, what I mean, exactly? So in what I say that with my generational happiness is different. I think there are some foundational things that will always be the same. You know? I think it's some of it's within our biology. Some of it is just tried and true wisdom there are things that just do work better than others. I don't think social media is a complete an absolute. They complete in absolute sorry. My phone started ringing. Substitution for. Social interaction. I don't think you know, you can get by on video games. Only in had the same sort of connection that she would have had if he went outside and play tad, for example. You know what I mean? So is my generation less happy because of it probably. And if you want proof of that just look on college campuses now on the flip side, though, since we are on the tail end of this. And we also our parents were the children the baby boomers we saw a lot of the things that the other the previous generations will doing and went. No, we're not going to be a part of this problem. You know what I mean? So I think you know, like every generation has its ways in which improves, but I also think social media has impacted us in such a way to where some of the things the previous generations, Dave was better. So we're in this weird icon me where we have both ends of the aisle. And when you look at history is often taught in the way that like you get better generation -ly. So I don't know this is just part of the process or if we're just kinda different. You know what I mean? Yeah. That that is an interesting point, the the globalization that the internet has created and in just the twenty four seven info source. I think his is certain. Made in your generation the ability for voices to come together and say, hey, look what's been done in. What is being done to to the world is not right? And if we're going to change it we need to change it. And that is absolutely an advantage of of social social media. You get you can create these these large groups, these large networks that never would have existed otherwise in hopefully that will create a social activism through social media. And there have been some successful examples of that. However. There also has to be action behind that. There has to be a real world element that comes from that. And I think that's maybe from at least from other generations points of view. That's where the next generation struggles right now everyone thinks, and I know it's cliche, but everyone thinks this next generation is just device driven. They're not. They're not action in real world driven to be able to to do any kind of results with with anything. And I think that's yet to be seen. There are people who seem to be wanting to make changes I can't think of her name. But what is the young Dutch girl, too is very very popular on the internet. Now, we're calling out leaders, you know, talking about I don't I can't think of her name. And maybe maybe this isn't the best example at all. But she's calling world leaders, and she's she's gone a ton of attention from it, and she's like twelve or thirteen and she's actually being able to make some changes in and put some some wheels motion. So I guess I guess they're just needs to. Be a balance between talk and online presence and real world action. And I'm sure that that's that's really that's happening. Yeah. Just kind of bounce off that row quick being the middle of their the balanced seems to go there to extremes of people that I know generally speaking when it comes to social media's they're the people that are all about it. And there are people that like never post barely on. They live in the moment. So I think my generation and again, we're in this middle range. We're not quite I jam awesome out quite mind. These kids we kind of we see it as it is. And some of us don't care some of us use it as a means to end. And then some of us have fallen into the trap. And then as far as the like, you know, the proceedings of this generation. You know, you maybe just as -pends on my day, if I'm feeling more optimistic or pessimistic, but I feel like more often than not I think the greatest innovators in the history of the world will come from about my age group. I also think the majority of my age group will be worthless. In work does that make sense? It's up is it. But if you think about it, though, I mean, isn't that every generation really? They say the those who fought in World War Two the greatest generation while they're the greatest generation because they had to be so many people were being drafted to to go and do brave things that they wouldn't have done otherwise. He for generation like mine who lived through peaceful times. There was no draft. There was no real ward till you know, you know, I rack and getting them more involved in Afghanistan and the Middle East. But that was all volunteer. Those who stood up and said, I'm going to do this would have done it anyway. Whereas in World War Two there are so many more people who didn't have that choice. They had to go do that and therefore trial by fire. They were put to the test in and resilient came back home different people that they never would have been otherwise some point is that a generation had been has the privilege of sitting around and doing nothing will and those who will rise out of it would have anyway. And so to your point. Yes, they're different circumstances different parameters. They're different tools. The you get to live your life through in in. However, there still will be those individuals that rise up to become great people. Right. Right. Now, the funny thing though, is that when you look at endure right about the Gration, probably right? Where it comes like, they they had to be what they were. But the thing is that the foundation for the world was laid during decades during the forties. Not only the foundation for political structures. But the foundation for all the technologies we use of us today. All of the, you know, the chemical stuff that we use an abusive everything was started by governments in some fashion in the forties on major scales. It's win the world saw this huge uptick in scientific advancements. Because we're trying to kill each other the most effectively possible is you know, what that generation did. They took all of this information and ran with it. And then something that the subsequent generations. Yes. Sure. They improved on it kind of slowly. But not until really the computer age in the end of the eighty s in someone really take it. And then give it the step it needed to become what it is today. And again, I like I don't want to bash on the whole Jewish. Oh it because I do see a lot of good in my generation and for all of our flaws. You know, we definitely seem to operate within our hearts, no matter. How stupid it looks? You know what I mean? Like, we we have ambit- we are in bishops in a weird way. Because we know how to use these tools that frankly, older generations don't know how to use appropriately. You know, what I mean when you've grown up using it for the majority of your life. You social media comes naturally to using computers pretty natural to you. But we have we have that ability to work with his tools. But I think the thing that we don't have. Because of this piece is the understanding of the systems were in in why they're there in the first place, you know, because my generation right now is spearheading millennials as well or doing this. They're spearheading socialism, the US, and I don't wanna get political. But what I do wanna get into that what we're going into is this gin generations with a completely different world view because of the peace in the prosperity. They've lived in. And we're about we're towing that line of when is the whole thing gonna fall down. And that is something that especially in peace times. I find concerning because we are generation that has capacity to tames the world, and we will change the world. I just hope it's in a more positive light bright. Yeah. Die completely agree with you. I think you you hit it on the head from kind of my point to you is. As well. And again without getting too political. I did hear something very disconcerting from somebody about my age at work the other day, they said, you know, I think that I think that millennials and the next generation I really have the opportunity to make the world better place. We just have to wait for these other generations to die. And that is such a scary point of view, if it's shared on a large scale because we can we can't wait until I die because how much more damage could be done to the world if we don't start making that change. And it's also not a lot of people might think that way and it's not right. It's not rightly on moral standpoint was also not right because the thing is that you know, you wanna give the baby boomer's hell for the shit. They've done fine. So be give them hell. But in the same token there they have to be part of the solution. Because they have created this stuff insured parts of the system suck. But there it would be easy to stop it with them. You know what I mean? And in your any again, I know it's widely held thought, but any buddy who thinks like that just needs to wake up to moral thought in wake up to something greater than themselves at that point because that's just fucked up. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Like, the this the way that the conversation. I was not part of conversation. I was a third party to it. But the way that it started. I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. That's seems like a positive thing. And then that just really dark turn at the end there that just kind of put a complete halt to what I thought was going to be positive Gummer's Asian it went dark, very quick. It may be very concerned that in a lot of people may think that way, and I agree from a moral standpoint. It's terrible. But then from an action standpoint in to sit around, and wait how long is that gonna be? Tamp. But it's kinda if I can get back to a thought that I had when we discuss the topic was going to be happiness in trying times again without getting political. We know what's going on in the world. Everyone does we we live in. Everyone says this point shore. But it seems to be really really really true. Now, we live in the craziest time in recorded history. And I do believe that to your point the system could fall very quickly and things could could be very grim. So being happy in in times like this. Through people that I've talked to everyone agrees that the can't respond to you're gonna get is focusing on your family focused on your friends focusing on what you can control in your media life. Yes, that's beautiful. That's great. I completely agree with that. But something that I've done, and I did want to get your point of view on this as well. And maybe you could speak for your generational little bit as well. But I used to be news junkie. And I thought that it was my civil responsibility to be a little bit of a news junkie. And to see what's Fox News was reporting to see what CNN was reporting. We know these are thought of his very skewed in both directions. But I would check and see what they're reporting. So I know what the world is being fed. But then also try to seek out more a legitimate Motta was legitimate mean what I mean more of trustworthy is the word that I'm looking for more trustworthy forms of. Of of news in kind of myself, try to build a bigger picture of what's going on. And why the propaganda on either side is his being issued. And then try to come to some kind of realization. By doing this. I think I started driving myself a little bit crazy not that. I was getting into conspiracy theories. I'm I'm by very logical person. I'm very real rounded person. It's not nothing like that. But I just started just being exposed to all of this negativity and all of this this hatred. Really from a lot of different sources really started to check me. And my fiance was the first to say I'm plugging I am just going to take myself out of the news feed. And I'm going to focus on my life and what I can control. It took me months early sa- month past her like, no, I I still have this duty. I saw this responsibility. I need to be aware of what's going on the world. Took myself out of it. And since I have on the other side of it. I've been much happier. Right. Have been less stressed. I I'm not worried about what the next revelations going to be what it's gonna lead to a what it's not going to lead to. And I am still connected in that. If something big happens if something that's gonna affect me, and my family is going to happen. And I need, you know, I feel like there needs to be at least some form of active action taken or activism taken, you know. I will I'll be part of that. I'm ready for that. If I need to if I feel like as an American as a human a need to do that. Stand up for some kind of injustice that I actually can't affect. But the problem is there's so much injustice is on social large scale. I can't affect it. I'll still be my duty and vote and all of those things, but there's so much going on. I will absolutely go insane. And so I have remove myself from from the news cycle, and there was actually a little bit of guilt that I like I should be wear of these things, I should know his. But I think that the way that the twenty four hour news cycle, and the sense and everything even when you do follow it up with with actual news in reliable sources is his we're it's insane. It's it's impossible to to follow that is much as I thought I needed to be happy. So that's why I've really kinda backed out of that. And I think in these trying times you have to find that balance of being aware and and staying away from some of the toxic nature. Of of the new cycle. Yeah. There's a lot on pack there. Buta bunch. Yeah, you're good. So I'm trying to rapid fire. If you want me to explain more, something I'll go into K. Okay. So a lot of my back on research going through all these different topics that there's psychological social and environmental aspects to happiness, right? So I'll stick to what I know the least because I'm not an expert in these fields. But like when you look at psychology and you hear from people Steven pinker Jonathan height Jordan Peterson. You know what I mean? I know like those names for some people are triggering but bear with me for a second. They all talk about how you know, your environment shifts the way, you are social media is a situation where you're you are as a human being put in a situation human beings whenever put in before because you couldn't interact with the people at a time. So when people showed up to your doorstep with a pitchfork that was a problem for you. And you had to treat it as a really serious problem. But now the thing is that any time on Twitter, you know, you can be hounded by ten thousand people in your body. He doesn't know what to do with that. Feels like there are ten thousand people coming at your doorstep mean, so recognizing that is important key. You look at things like living a good life Jonathan height. Steven pinker, realizing that you live in the greatest period of world history ever as far as peace as far as lack of poverty as far as a medical health of. Yeah. Just like you're in the best period time ever stop characterizing as it's not the not the best time ever. And then so. Obviously that there we can expand if you want. But also like again, social media, this concept where we are placed into a social group that is bigger than what our brains are allowed to handle that make sense. I forget the what the number is called. But there's this number in sociology that re- that basically is about the baseline for the number of real interactions or real friendships or relationships you can have any of the point time and the numbers like two hundred or three hundred you know, what I mean, it's not very high. So when you have five hundred Facebook friends, the reality of it is is that you cannot be close with of them your brain. If your person can't do that. And are citing his come to terms of that need to be preached were widely. And then as far as the activism thing like you've nail on the head and again for people who want a little bit more in this Jaakko from Jaakko willing from Jaakko podcast. Dave Rubin has touched about talked about this a lot. I really wish I had. More left-leaning sources the point than that way too. But the Dave is a democrat. But really really what's what's going on is that you have to be able to understand what you can control and something my generation does not understand is. That we can't fix everything. It would you would do more good for the earth. If you backed away from your Twitter account where you used your hashtags for every single, quote unquote scandal ends that took one thing. The thing you took most seriously, seriously and work to change it. You know what I mean? And it's been really cool seeing that first hand, I go to a Christian university people do that, you know, if homeless ministry is what they need that's their calling and they want to go change the world that way, they can do it. And then we have a sex trafficking group here where they work with extra traffic victims, and then trying to put their the criminals behind that behind bars, and they help out in different ways. Like if you join these groups and one in a time, you would be better off for changing the world that was your goal. So I hit that I hit that sorry. There's a lot. I wanted to get to. And now, I'll just leave it there for now because I'm sure I could go for our. Yeah. Well, one thing that stands out today. Again, we're gonna start kicking back and forth off of each other and make ten things flash. Each other's brains. Keep going this route the ones we'll focus on that. You said is is realizing that we live in the greatest time in history. We do we do in medical advancement scientific, advancement, psychological, events knit, everything is at its peak. Yes. And you know, depending on where the world heads. This may be this may be the best time in human history. Hopefully, it will get better, but we may be living. Absolutely. The best time that will ever be human history. And we need to realize that because it's it's much more blockbuster to hear Rachel Maddow. Come out and say, your your president is screen you in fifty different ways in here's how and it's much more blockbuster for. No people on the on the right set of things to come out and say that the Democrats are Satan in socialism, is is the worst thing that could ever happen. The world generates clicks. Yeah. Exactly. And so that's where this divide comes from. Because honestly, I in in truth there, are there are bad people on both sides, and there really needs to be a emiddle road for everyone to walk down where we can be to could human beings. And and that's the problem with with the sensationalization of of the news media, and then feeding into the separations that exist in our country today in the world today. But the fact still remains that we have an opportunity you, and I have the privilege to be talking to each other across the country and having this philosophical conversation about these things, you know, that's their countries in the world where even today pushing. In many areas in the Middle East in Asia where they still don't have that. Right. Right. And we were able to to talk about this. But the action needs to come behind it. And that's where with these the money in this institutionalised, you know, our political system just needs to change. And that again goes back to where that monumental thing. You, and I are not going to be able to go and change anything who in government today tomorrow or in our lifetime while we can do is affect something locally or something on the small scale you in California me in North Carolina. And if enough people do that enough like minded people do that locally and focus on one thing, they actually can impact and change. That's when the change will start go upward. And that's when we can start you your generation the generation few can come in and make many different changes to the political system. And that's. Unfortunately in this on demand world that we live in this. Well to be happy. You know, I feel like I need to see exactly the kind of government that I want in place tomorrow because that's that's the nature. I get what I want whenever I want. It's on demand, and that's not reality. So right. It's like you people focusing on. This is weird parallel. But it's like people focusing on local former mean local businesses in those kind of things people need to really take back down to the local level and change from bottom up. Right. Kind of people in the ticket done to them selves. Because once you once you realize that again, you're you're an individual who is in the best science on earth and the history of earth, just objectively I'm not talking about the United States patriotism, but like objectively you're in the best society. You once you realized that you have to understand that there are people, and there are a lot of people even on this today who have it so much worse than you. You know? And it's like, I'm always mind blown when I see someone screaming about the evils of capitalism, and the evils of the, you know, the old white man as they're typing away on their macbook pros that cost a small fortune. Enjoying their lactate is kind like, and they're saying things like, you know, the US the worst country on earth than we are in the worst times ever. And that and it's like you have to be able to see the irony and that sort of situation if you can't see it your straight up delusional or your ignorant to history. And frankly, I don't know which one's worse. So in the whole like when you are actually in trying times, I think being able to understand your situation is helpful. But also my trying times in the grand scheme of things aren't that trying? And I think that has helped me a lot to understand my trying times are not that try. There are people who are being held sex trafficking circles, there are people who are being being used as child soldiers over an Africa. There are people in again, the Middle East Asia, which are having their views suppressed, they can't leave the house without their husband's permission. You know, what I mean, you you can be thrown off a building for being gay like. My life, isn't that bad? So what I am in whatever my quivalent is of trying times. It's easy for me to go back reflect on my position in the world and go, you know, what? I'm okay, sure. This thing sucks, and it's going to suck for a day or two days a week. But I'm okay. Yes. Yeah. That's true. You know, I do think there are still groups that that should be as angry and his as they are certainly I think women and in America right now, they're very afraid of things of equality. But also that government and systems in place will also continue to push them backwards as opposed to advancing them forward. Certainly homosexual groups and things are concerned about this. They should be vocal, and they should be organized, and they should be. Active, but four other groups who who who aren't apart of those while they need to give them support. They still also need to realize how lucky they are to your point. Absolutely. It was it was listeners in my show. Probably like sitting on edge a little bit. I would I don't wanna get too far into the picking which categories should should not be. I'm worried about it. And. Mainly because it's just like again, even if you're a woman in the United States, you still have it so much better than the rest of the world. Well, that was the point that I was just about to make is that even people within those groups who live in a much better time where they have more rights more continue to to work toward better rights, and they have the systems in place to do that is just that. There's still a lot of fear and a lot of concern around that. But anyway, that did get us a little bit off topic. So what do you want to discuss you feel like you've you've got enough for is there anything you want to kind of go back, and and focus a little more on v a little clear towards happiness in in trying times. I think for people in like western societies where we are so interconnected. There are some very basic things. You can do to see if social media or the is like nine at you. Right. So you talked earlier about unplugging. I'm making a point to imply. Probably once every three months, and then I also part of plugging though is not just unplugging yourself in social media and not getting the interaction. That's helpful. Yes. But taking the time to reflect why that's getting in the first place. You know what I mean? And again, I I really wanna hit this perspective point. But it's so it's such a broad point. You can't get everything. But like the thing about perspective is that when you understand like your place in the world, you start to understand what doesn't doesn't matter. If that makes sense. And again, you know, you could be in a group that even in the US is. Being marginalized for lack of a better term. But you also have to understand that marginalized in the and this is not an excuse by all means work towards whatever quality, you think that you deserve. But even if you're marginalizing United States, you have to understand that there are people throughout the country throughout the world who they can't even speak. You know, what I mean without a gun being pointed to their head on my show. I commonly referred to places like China, North Korea. Saudi Arabia Saudi Arabia's an ally. I put that one there for a reason. Where you are not free. You cannot speak out. You cannot defer to different modes of thought, and I think a lot of people create these problems. And I also think you know, if if you're in the US or Canada for other western developed societies, and you think that you're in these like trying this trying position of maybe you're be marginalised, maybe think that just having a bad week or whatever understand too. That your attitude is going to change your outlook so much as others outlooks of you. Because happiness is not one thing it's a really broad term for a bunch of really different emotions caused by really different things. So if you want to stay happy part of it is yourself, maybe this is just the Jaakko in me talking. It's like if you have discipline. You had the termination, and you have some perspective on your own place in the world. And you know, maybe you understand a little bit of neurobiology, and maybe understand a little bit as college. You know what I mean? I think you could find yourself. It's an easier Persian for you to induce said happiness now that being said when you flip it the other way because I said, you you mentioned like my Instagram thing when you're educated, and you have to understand that everybody in the western world educated. This is not like PHD level. This is when you have a basic understanding to understand the world, and you have a basic understanding to see the world's problems, you I think it might actually be hard to be happy. And I know I said I said something contradictory to that a couple of episodes ago. But since then they might have been changed. Because you can see the cracks in the system, and the thing is that you have to realize no all the cracks in the system really that bad. Yes. Yeah. I'd rather have a system in place that has cracks in it than that. No system at all. Of course, when he's just continuing to try to improve what you have to to build on that. But to your point and kind of going back to on plugging a little bit. If I can into your point of of the more educated, you are Neo is it harder to be happier. I think that's simplifying. My life is really what I've been trying to do more more because I was you're reading books on philosophy in trying to stay into how the world actually works and finding little solace. Enjoy there. And then I wrote read a book that was written by Gretchen Rubin called happier at home. She the happiness project, obviously, kind of researching happiness I came across this in the book, I seem really silly to me in actually after I read it. I wasn't really enjoy the book all that much. But the more started thinking about it the book just focuses on. She says look I've I've thought about. Happiness on kind of this larger scale now, I'm gonna internalize it. I'm gonna bring him my home. So she talks about being happier with her husband's talks about being happier with their kids. So then she talks about actually just making the home. A happier place in building these little shrines and just having it nicer for them to enjoy and going on little local adventures and things like that. And I think that's really important that people will can definitely tend to and we all know that we see them on in social media where every single post in every single comment they make disfigures full of angst. And all these these these facts, they're spitting out is so full of all of this information, and they're just overwhelmed with it. So just spews from the constantly. Whereas if I can can kinda separate myself from that be aware of it make sure that it's it's nothing that's gonna endanger me, but then really just focus on what's beautiful around me say my house, my job, my friends, you know, going to places that I enjoy. Going on a hike doing these kind of things and just really improving on a smaller scale my happiness in my meat circle. And let the world do at this world's going to do and affect what I can affect again find that balance. But more and more I want to just make improvements on the house read spend time with my fiance. That's what makes me happy and even the podcast, the people vs happiness is a reflection of that. I'm not going out, and I'm not talking to politicians on. Hey, how can I be happy? You know? Right. And I make the world in the political system. A happier place. I'm talking to my friends who who are happy people and who made me. Right. No, totally totally. Something again, they go back to the education point too. When you when you understand more the systems in place, and you you can do by understanding philosophy. The whole fact that is kind of interesting too because I've taken a couple of stats courses. And it's just like it's so easy to mess with data. You're a main. So I, and maybe this is make the words baby. This made me a skeptic perpetual skeptic, but like whenever someone throws a fact my way is just kinda like, okay? And you know, like have you accounted for everything? And I it was funny because I did a vaccine episode a little while back. And I was still small I wasn't getting very many downloads on. Of course, this thing by my standards, kind of blew up a little bit on to in the comment section. And which was like three people. But still I had you know, how this whole episode out where I basically said like if you look into the statistics of the situation doesn't make any sense because method suck I've read them at that. They suck right for how they how they measured vaccine prevalence. And of course, the conspiracy theorist and will out a little caves, and they start hammering at me. Kind of funny. But you know, when you understand statistics you understand the philosophy. You understand the psychology sociology understand the biology because I had that background for years of my undergrad. It puts everything into perspective in again, you know, again, put you in that position where you are more able to self impose even though you can see more of the problems. But you also like you read your read of tweet, you'll re- series of tweets, she'll go out and see angry people and just kind of understand the BS. They don't understand. And and if you study history that these patterns repeat themselves, and that there are ways out if you study philosophy you realize the ends in which you can no longer make progress. You know what I mean? It's just there's so much to do it. Let me ask you to to that effect when you're dealing with people like that that how do you handle on seeing what you see is your duty in in your responsibility to to impact what could become a dangerous situation or a dangerous way of thanking with just knowing that there's not much you can do about it and stain removed as result, right? Guilt about that. I still even though I'm trying to remove myself and unplug I still feel like I should be some part of meat should be some kind of social warrior that just you know, Listrik, right? So year ago, I probably would told you you need to fight for everything that you believe, you know, and just go for it. And I was coming at this from more of a right leaning position. Because my side is gets hammered all the time. Right. So we almost have to stand up for ourselves and make sure that our whatever our views are being seen correctly. And when I started to podcast, I had started to learn where I was what I was really trying to get at because what I realize, and I'm speaking political terms here because it's what I know best in these kinds of conversations. When you realize that you're no longer in the position. Of changing a person's mind. You know, you might as well quit the conversation if it's one on one, right? And but then I took a setback. No. There's got me more than that. Like, why can't change person mind? Once you know, when you should understand your own philosophy start there you need to know yourself before you can do anything with anyone else. And I know that that's not practiced. But if it was man, our society would be so much better. Do you need to understand yourself? You need to understand what you believe a fundamental levels. You know what I mean? And the once, you know, that then learn the other fundamentals you don't believe in understand you need to know worldviews. You don't like I'm doing a Marxism series? I do not like Marxism. But I want to understand it and find where it has merit and find, you know, then see why it goes the way it goes. You should be able to say that without ridicule too. So if you understand yourself, then you understand not the people, but the ideas, and then when you see the idea starting to manifest and other individuals, if you know, their fundamental ideas that are starting to manifest that you're now starting to see you're not gonna change the mind fun fundamentals there fundamental. You know what I mean? So then it turns then you have to determine, you know, are you going to if you're talking to an audience with this person, then you can get into the conversation and try and sway the audience's mind. But if it's one on one. Walk away. But also like on Twitter, I'll do some snippy whatever funny one liners if I can like every now, and then, but I don't take a Twitter conversation seriously. And I think that's a secret don't take to Twitter conversation. Seriously, don't take social media seriously. Because when you're behind this wall of text, just as you're going to move at all the other person isn't either? Yeah. That's why. Is there anything else you wanted to expand on with that or think I hit everything, but I talked for a long time in trade about. Yeah. I did that several times as well. Honestly, I had not tended to speak so politically, but I think when you speak about happiness in trying times the most trying things are trying times are politically based. So there's really no way around it amazing. Like, you don't have to worry about food on the table. You don't have to worry about. I mean, some people have to worry about work. But like you don't have to worry about working the same way that rations did especially pre industrial evolution you have the choice to have different politics in the first place. You had the choice to better yourself. How have the choice access information at how you fit you had the choice to talk with other people in if the most trying thing is some idiots political perspective on the other side, maybe on that to you. I don't care. Why can't you put into perspective and go it's not that bad? Yeah. And then the last note that I'll get a little. A little more the'real with is there oftentimes where I just have to stop and remind myself where I am in actually the grand scheme of time and the universe, and the fact that I get to wake up every day, and I get to breathe every day, and I get the experience life, and I I'm right now, I'm looking out my window, and I see some beautiful bushes and trees blooming in green behind in. It's wonderful beautiful peaceful site fact that I have this moment in time alone has nothing to do with anything else or any pain or any struggle in our country, and that's beautiful thing. And we need to have more of those moments as well. Because just the fact that whatever you believe, you you come from religious background. I was raised very religious. But even if you don't come from that if you think that this is random, it's so randomly beautiful then stopped and enjoy it for a second and get outside of yourself, and and get outside of this moment in history because. It's amazing that we're here to me that we have developed all these problems, right? It's a luxury. It is a luxury and like to the listeners. I I would I would watch back and listen to that last forty five seconds again. And I want you to count the number of times he says the orb beautiful. There's a point there. Because like I said you have the ability to change perspective. You should understand the world what you're living in? And. Yeah, when you know when you see the world around you, and you do see the beauty as is in the amazement as it is in the wonder as it is. You said I'm from a religious background actually more of a secular. It's kind of funny. I just happen to religious school, and it's been real. Yeah. When you you can look around at the world, and yes, you can even as a secular look around the world and see the beauty, and you can believe in God and see beauty there. But I don't understand how people who don't believe in. God don't even see more beauty because there's no way it's random does that make sense. And when you when you go through talking back to the listeners when you go throughout your life, and you any make it a point to use terms like beautiful and wonderful amazing. And you point of you recognize that's your wives or fiancee's girlfriends. Boyfriends husbands, aunts, uncles, family, members, general if they're beautiful so you and your life, and you recognize that and you see the world as it is. And you have to understand that the world is beautiful. There is beauty to it. That will make you happier. It will make eas- easier to make you happy, and it will make it harder for to be into make you unhappy. Because there are people who don't see the union the world. There are people who are in horrible situations that you think you can imagine. But you probably can't. And maybe you're one of those people wasn't as podcast. And of course, that'd be more than happy talk to you about it. But. If you're going through life, and you're talking about how everything is horrible everything is madness. The world's about to end the end is nigh Trump sucks. Obama sucks. North Korea sucks. Russia's sucks. France sucks. Like. Stop and take a moment. And again, go back and listen to that section podcast and just count the number times. He's had beautiful and make it a point to say at least once in your day. It will it will change so much. Yeah. I think that was very well. Put thank him, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Well, let's go ahead and start winding down because I'm sure you're busy, man. I have to do. So we've listened to you for about forty minutes. Some of my viewers may have short attendance spans may have forgot what you're all about. So let's just go ahead or remind though because we love them just as much as we love everyone else in. What are you all about? So despite a lot of the the twists and turns this conversation, mainly I consider myself, a philosophical individual in pursuit of happiness. Now that doesn't mean that my conversations are always going to be I'm not going to necessarily even use the word happiness a lot in every single one of the episodes of the people. I it's happiness. But what I am going to do is. I'm going to have a conversation with somebody who either has unique view on happiness does something to make themselves happy that's kind of unique or who makes me happy as as a friend or family member and through that conversation. Hopefully, we're gonna we're gonna have a good conversation about something specific to continue a dialogue in almost create a really large diary of experience is surrounding happiness to kind of expand my personal definition in hopefully, other people's definition of what happiness is through the lens of my personal experience in relationships. That's kind of the big picture that I'm trying to create what the people vs happiness. So the podcast right now. It started out long form with ninety minute conversations. I realized that was not going to be sustainable. So now, I'm trying to have more twenty to thirty minute conversations with people to where if we have more to say at the end of those three minutes, we're gonna say goodbye for this for this conversation. We'll pick it up again in many conversations with the same people to continue that dialogue is been working. Really? Well, I've been having a ton of fun with it. You can listen to the episodes that are out now on itunes, apple podcasts. Spotify Stitcher pretty much again anywhere that you can get your podcast were distributing through again. Please come talk to me about what you've heard this conversation, or what you hear in the people vs happiness. I wanna hear much more from the listeners on and they can do that. And our Facebook page, which is the people vs happiness or at the people vs happiness in Instagram or directly, Email me with ideas, thoughts, whatever at the people vs happiness gmaiLcom. No. Well, I recommend to show. I don't recommend every show, but I do recommend his and definitely go and check it out. And that was a wonderful conversation with Dave most grave of the people vs happiness. And again, I recommend you check out his show that was a conversation that didn't go the way that we thought it would we had a different topic lined up. We were supposed to focus around happiness and trying times, but it just kinda turned into general commerce happiness, which is perfectly fine. And I think is awesome. I think we kinda caught into a little deeper concepts than what we would have gotten otherwise. And I'm sure we're going to revisit the topic at a later time. Anyway. Now, I have some closing remarks about the talk but first a quick message. You know, if you have any feedback or just want to say, hi, check us out at just think pod on Twitter and Instagram. And of course, you can find every podcast episode, plus bonus blog content and written content at jesting podcast dot com. We're also looking for contributors and author. So if you want a home for your poetry your short stories, you're art as well, as maybe, you know, if you want to blog or even be journalist, quote, unquote. For a smaller platform, you can have your work showcased at just podcast dot com. And we will once we get to a certain size will migrate to more appropriate named website. You can do that at just think podcast dot com for slash contributor where you can fill out a form and apply to be such a contributor for the site. And we'll go from there. Again, we're looking for content creators who aligned our mission statement to broaden the discussion on so many levels, and I would love to incorporate more people into the fold. Oh, it's unpaid don't think I'm not hiring is a place for you to have a home an internet home for your work. If you're not getting published also of like, if your work is good. I would love to publish it for you. Now few other key things you can go to just calm. You can buy Mircha. Currently stick is up in. The course you can donate there. But I'll keep that bit really short. You can help us out. I wanna get new recording. But I can't do it yet. So if you wanna help us out, you can totally do it their hashtag shameless plug now, I think David had some great insights into happiness at large happiness with the society issues within society, we talked, you know, we talked a little bit about politics. We talked a lot about group think although we term it like that we talked about social media. There was just a lot of good dialogue there that. I think everyone can learn from there's a lot of wisdom in that man. And I honored and humbled that people like him along with Alex on the couple of guests that I have in the future. Coming onto the show. They're coming onto the show and share with me if you want to be a part of the discussion you can go to justify cast dot com and fill out our form to be guest. He we continue the conversation. I am surprised really that the topic that seems to be getting the most love right now is happiness. It's like a subset of a good life series. And I kind of expected some other topics to Dorner more interest. But I'm that doesn't seem to be the case. A completely surprised and it's been great to see different perspectives has been great to have a little bit tiny amounts of conflict. And some of the interviews. I'm done, and you know, work around it and learn from each other learn from different people, and I think it's absolutely amazing again that was David moss, grave checkout. His show for those of you who have gotten this the people vs happiness, and I will catch you in the next episode. And I hope you appreciate it. As bonus episode of just think, I don't ask. For much the one thing that I do want you to do no matter. What even if you can't or don't want to follow us on Twitter Instagram, or you don't want to donate or you don't wanna read other material justly podcast dot com. The one thing I do ask that you do no matter. What is just think? I will catch guys in the next one. We're gonna keep talking until I fifteen seconds of pure gold. Just try not to. There. It is. He said, we should probably say that we're the ruseler is some point to write your tall. Tall. Do you? Have you got? He's not doing a guy. He's all. Wait for the commotion to escape. Bill. Bill. Gene seconds in there. Credit for all music goes to John Bartman, all tracks were downloaded from free music archive.

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The Case of the Greenbrier Ghost, Part 2: The Court

Ridiculous History

42:49 min | 2 months ago

The Case of the Greenbrier Ghost, Part 2: The Court

"I think stall I found them the arrogance curse in. Its is are just very life. Then what is it Ted keep spinning? He might. Scary Really scary. Missing out on GEICO's easy to use mobile APP. You can manage your Vica policy whenever Larry. Looks play with another doll. We can just bury it deep in the ground. Happy. gyco weaned download the industry-leading GEICO APP today. Dr Wendy Walsh host of the podcast mating matters I believe nearly every human behavior is motivated by a desire for love love the romantic indies I believe in happy sex sometimes find myself looking for reasons to have sex for to hedge reproductive odds of always been very active. Are Ancient. Brains are interacting with the modern world listened to mating matters on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Ridiculous histories of production of iheartradio Welcome back to the schober Dickie, Lewis Historians as always. Thank you so much for tuning into what we're calling Halloween of because. We will just not let a joke die. Yeah even an accidental joke that stems from just like a momentary mispronunciation of a very common. Well it's it's probably my appalachian roots linguistically popping out my accent but. I I am thrilled to be joined with you guys again no knee are low tho- tap Brown and. Super Producer Casey ca through. Oh Hell Yeah. We. We usually try to take a quick break between episodes of recording something straight through, and I literally ran away like picked up. What Age beloved craft books now is like I know there's something here. So I apologize for being late I tried to Noel I really wanted to nail that pronunciation for you Niara. Though. Yeah. Ben The void stares back Bolan. Who Thank you I love it and I agree. And so. We're we're Mary Spirit as we explore. Some not so Mary spirits. Yes exactly. It's not. So Mary spirits as we teased in part one This is the second half of the Greenbrier Ghost in which we encounter some stunning revelations some scandalous plot twists I don't know what do you think man? Would it be good for us to give just a brief summary of episode one? Oh, I think that's always helpful Ben So we've got a an unexplained death or a poorly explained death. Let's say the local physician Dr Nap sounds like a made up character blamed it on the ever lasting faint. Aka a heart attack but this the woman in question who passed away one Elva Zona shoe maiden name heater was discovered in a ramshackle pile at the bottom of the stairs in the home where she was living with her ne'er do well husbands erasmus if we're going to give them a nickname via. Shufu Aka trout just mainly we've been referring to him as all the we really liked the name Erasmus he very suspiciously. Had left the house gone to visit a neighborhood, my Auntie Martha I believe and then had her young son go and. Fetch some eggs from from his wife only to discover her decrepit body. Dead. Her corpse at the bottom of the stairs there was an autopsy performed quite haphazardly if I do say. So myself by said a local physician and coroner Dr Nap and the trout very conspicuously was a not cool with him. Examining the neck parts flash forward to the funeral back in zone his hometown on the other side of Greenbrier county where trout's even more conspicuously and awkwardly sticks close to the casket and make sure that her neck parts are covered up going as far as propping her head up. Believe we referred to as death becomes her style and the casket and made sure no one got a good look at her neck. What happens next? Then everybody is being pathologically polite as we said, leading this guy, do his weird next stuff to his wife's corpse and no one's raising a stink about it except for zone `as mother Mary Jane Easter I. She Never Liked Rascasse. She found him sketchy is what I would call a sketch artist on Kazai fan of terrible euphemisms and she then experienced a series of. Visions for four nights. She was visited by what she believed to be the ghost of her daughter after extensive praying and her daughter not only said that did not die of a heart attack. She said that her husband had murdered her murder most foul and she specifically said This is where happened. This is how he broke my neck this where he broke by neck. What the view looked like out of our house and Mary Jane had all these details she brought them to the town prosecutor one Mr Preston Mr Preston we don't know whether he believed in ghosts, but through sheer tenacity, Mary Jane was able to persuade him to start asking questions. He finds out about this weird next stuff he. Gets the doctor in a very lovable kind of absent minded. Professor, way. Well. shucks. You know it was a little odd that that that. This guy named trout. was was against me examining the neck area of his dead wife but I just I just chalked it up to grief and I just figured I didn't want to ask too many questions. I mean the man's grieving he's he's these shedding tears. He's a grown man I didn't want I don't WanNa push him over the edge. You know I mean I have a little compassion why don't you but yeah, you're goes back to. Say Okay well, now that you mentioned that was a little odd. So they exhumed the body for a second autopsy at which point they find some pretty conspicuous markings around the neck, a crushed windpipe finger bruises around the neck. All things that point to trout as perhaps being the perpetrator of what is now looked at not as a case of the horrible 's or what do they call it the everlasting faint the everlasting. Faint? But rather a murder and the plot continues to thicken just like a just like cornstarch us, another cornstarch doctor or whatever. But Yeah. They looks like murder rather than unfortunate heart attack and what's more the on the body correlate almost precisely according to the papers of the time with the information that Mary Jane claims to have received from her daughter's ghost however there an end in. Trout says some. Ridiculously. Sketchy stuff about this kind of like when Oj Simpson published a book called if I had done it. And this This gives Preston, the prosecutor, even more of a an off feeling. But at this point people in town are saying well could have been shoe but how did Mary Jane Have All this information? What if she is not only making up this goes story but if she is the murderer and framing her son in law, that's where our stages set back to our intrepid prosecutor, he's doing some detective. Work he's gotTa Sherlock Holmes Hat on whatever what's the do we know the specific name for that kind of hat? Yes. called a deer stalker not sure I know that but but for some reason I do and yeah, it's true. He keeps digging he keeps digging and looking into Hsu's pass because this guy is now really looking good as as suspect number one and he finds out that she's been married twice before. Door. Yeah. Scandal indeed and according to the record. The first marriage ended in divorce when Xu was sent to prison. For stealing a horse, what they call horse divorce, it's what happens you steal a horse automatic divorce. I thought was a horse. Maybe that's what they call it in Tennessee. Right it's there's different colloquialisms all over this grand country of ours language is a living thing as you say but but that wife later told the cops that shoe was in fact an awful awful violent, aggressive angry man who beat her quite frequently when they were married the second marriage that he entered into ended after only eight months with oh my gosh surprise surprise. Mysterious death of that wife Yes lucy trick shoe had lived with her husband for a little less than eight months and she died under suspicious circumstances. Check this out. The first wife was supposed to have passed away from a broken neck when she fell from a haystack, the second wife apparently died while helping trout to repair a chimney he was on top of the chimney his wife was putting rocks and A. With a rope attached. So they could you know recruit yeah. Like a counterweight or something. Yeah. New fully thing up to the top and as the basket was drawn up, it turned over and dropped the rock on the head of his wife. That's the explanation for the second wife. But those are still mysterious circumstances because you see gentleman. People said that this second? Wife Lucy? was pregnant at the time for death in was still to this day you'll hear people say she felt through ice other say the rocks are on the head some say was poice Oh. Gosh, and let's just really quickly you know the the the initial digging revealed only th the first wife, the first marriage ended in divorce, but there are these. Differing stories of these other potential. Deaths in these potential super sketchy deaths and you know I mean it is circumstance but it is a smoke fire type situation and it certainly the very least points to shoo trout being a pretty awful guy. So he's got this information now and We also have an account that while he was in prison between those marriages for the horse theft that he bragged about this idea that he was going to marry seven women in his lifetime weird flex. We're goal to each their own I. Guess but. There's a there's definite that that's the kind of statement definitely leaves some questions right? Because the US at this time has laws against what's known as me. Bigamy is the practice of to marry someone when you are vac still married to someone else. So he would have been what a sex toppled bigamist I. Guess it would seem so and that paired with his previous statement when presented with the plans to exhume his his third dead wife's body the the apparition in questions they by the way, my daughter, the other day was she likes anime engines about ghosts and she was like Dad, you knew it an operation is. What you mean like a ghost, she's yeah an operation I think you mean apparition she goes no. No, it was definitely an operation I read it on the subtitles right there on the screen and I had to like break to like nope we. Got That one wrong. She hasn't spoken to me since, but YEP, today's apparition in question So between all of those details, even though there's and shoe statement of if I-. OJ Simpson Lake Statement of well, you're gonNA arrest me but you're not going to be able to prove that I did it. It was enough for for this prosecutor to bring him to trial and there was a grand jury assembled and the trial began in June. Why is the number three, sixty smart that your answer to better health and wellness? It's proven quality sleep anymore questions yes. I'm always freezing and he overheats its temperature-balancing so you can sleep better together but can it help keep us asleep it senses your movements and automatically adjust to keep you effortlessly comfortable. So more energy for Yoga yes. Proven quality sleep is life changing sleep number stay Ma'am I. Stay to you to save up to one thousand dollars on the new sleep number three, sixty smart bed and adjustable base only for a limited time to learn more, go to sleepnumber DOT COM. Haunted. Don't think. So what about those two creepy girls con- stay pass Truly. Frightening. Missing on a guy goes great service with Geico, you get twenty four, seven access to licensed agents. Thank you creepy girls to see her. Sleep in China at the GEICO, we switch today for twenty four, seven access to licensed agents. Lewisburg West. Virginia. June thirtieth 1897 trout hires A to defense lawyers, William Recruiter and James. Gardner to be his representatives in a court of law. James Gardner by the way is the very first black lawyer to practice in a circuit court in the state of West Virginia at the trial. Here's the tricky thing. There's not a ton of hard evidence available. Yes. Elvis zone is neck is broken and there are hand marks for sure. But as we pointed out of forensic science, then is not what? It is today and yes, trout did brag they will not be able to prove I. Did it which is a quote but that's not at doesn't get you beyond reasonable doubt in a murder case you know what? I mean. So the defense calls Mary Jane to the stand and the defense attorney asked her to describe her visits from this operation this ghost. She does this was the defense it most likely this was the defenses attempt to. Attack her credibility right to make her seem like a crazy grieving parents But she stuck to her guns and later a full transcript of this conversation was published by a newspaper called the Monroe Watchman which he's we cheese this little that we're not going to give you the whole transcript. We think it might be suitable for bit of A. Would think knowledge dramatic reenactment. Yeah. Yeah. I think so and listen any southern drawl accents we do. We come we come honestly by we're from the South Bend you're from Tennessee you know we're not making fun of anybody they're just fun to do. Can we all agree on that that we're not trying to make fun of anybody's culture background here you rock paper scissors for. The attorney absolutely. Okay. Is One two, three, shoot right? One, two three. Let's is close to this new lag because there's a lag on the video. Okay. Casey. You're are impartial witness ad enlarging death batch. So the winner is the attorney ready. Okay. One two, three shoot is open it both were below the camera line I think see paper and says all right. Okay. So you're the. SCISSOR okay and I trust that you didn't cheat I'd never never that's a Quiz Dakota to move all right I wouldn't do it stoop to that level here we gonNA Casey hit the Music Missiles Teesta. Tivo. Show that these visits a not for dreams. Gisar. It was not a dream. I don't dream when I'm awake to be sure and I know I saw her rattler with me. All you all not considerably superstitious of no sir. I am not I was never that way before and I am not now Do. You believe in the Scriptures? Yes. Sir I have no reason not to believe it and do you believe the scriptures contain the word of God and his son? Yes I do don't you believe it now. I would like it if I could to get you to say that these were four dreams and not four visions. Or appearances of your daughter in flesh and blood I am not going to say that. I am not going to laugh. And seem and seeing. Casey can you just out? Of Pity US applause Q. Because I know are ridiculous. It's A. Pity applause. Those accidents were something else. Thanks Oh wow. Okay. All right. I'll take that backhanded compliment all day long you're on thin ice my friend I can't believe I gave you Kazoo sh- bless their hearts. Oh okay. No now are moving on we're working. Here's the deal many of the people in town maybe not all twelve jury members but many people the town believed Easter story she seemed sincere. She did not seem as though she had some sort of alterior mood to murder her own daughter She certainly wasn't getting money out of this and to be honest harassment's didn't really do himself. Any favors when he took the stand he was just kinda like rambling like a crazy guy who accidentally walked onto the Ted talk stage he was saying stuff to the jury like like interrupting the lawyers and say. Look into my face and then you tell me if I'm guilty, which is the worst thing to say yes. Especially like a super guilty look do that'd be like look away from my veins but pay me no mind you know. It's it's very interesting scene not to mention this didn't really come up. This is just my two cents. You know this was an elderly lady and these were the types of injuries that were clearly inflicted by hand by very strong hands like animalistic. -Ly strong hands perhaps the hands of trout. Trout don't have hands, but a guy with a nickname trout does yet, and because the jury had no hard evidence to consider just circumstantial stuff. Then of course, what appears to be the testimony of a woman who received information from ghost. They're left. We kind of feel out the VIBE. You know what I mean gone with their guts and this guy makes terrible first impression on them. The. So the judge said, you know there's no middle ground for the jury to take the verdict inevitably and logically must be for murder in the first degree or for an acquittal no other choices no manslaughter nothing like that. The jury deliberates but they don't go twelve angry men style. There are only deliberating for maybe an hour and change. It took them that long what did they find? Well, I mean, yeah, they they they convicted the guy I. Mean I just can't imagine what else they would have done when presented with especially such unsympathetic testimony from the man himself look at my face look trail mate. Exists. A face, the face of a child of God right hit no. No. Yeah but they sentenced him to life and it turns out. That's exactly what they took a as they say in the Shawshank redemption only in this case, it means that he died pretty quickly in prison of an UN determined malady But as we know in the time the spring of nineteen hundred something we can relate to there were quite a few epidemics running around measles and ammonia were absolutely ripping through this particular prison, the Mounds Ville State Prison and he had no one. To come and claim his body, and this is all from actually the the official website of Greenbrier West Virginia, and so now a question, the very halloway any question for everyone in the crowd true believers and sceptics alike, was it a ghostly visitation or was it simply mother's intuition that uncovered the murderer Mary? Jane hastier lived long after Trout atmos- has passed away. She lived until nineteen sixteen. She never changed her story about Elvas Ghost. Maybe it was her story that swayed the jury and won the case. Maybe. It wasn't. And as they say in a great mental floss article about this, maybe her daughter did speak to her from beyond the grave maybe it was all a Mary. Jane's head or maybe just maybe she had arrived at the information through mundane means and chose to frame it in this in this other worldly lie. To get more like is audit to get more attention but no matter what is she did not have the ghost story she would not have gone to the prosecutor and the prosecutor never would've put those pieces together and It's quite possible that shoe would have been on. Spouse number four pretty soon, the shoe would have been on the other spouse. Never, never mind I was just the shoe on the other foot. Forget it forget I. Work. Thank you. Thank you so much and so that's essentially the end of you know the main part of the story, but it actually becomes a little bit more of a legend I I love the idea of the legends Zona makes me think of the legend of Zelda of course but it's mainly referred to in folklore and the the Laura I guess of the area of Appalachia as the greenbrier ghost and it has taken on sort of a life of its own over the years. It's told on a lot of like ghost tours which we know well, even around here in Atlanta. In more haunted rural type places like new. Orleans. You might think of but there is actually a West Virginia microbrewery named zone `as revenge which is It's in her honor and is device be. Very nice. Very drinkable summary kind of beer. If you haven't had a vice beer I, highly recommend and Ben. No, you're a fan of this Geno Pearson. The comic appears on an episode of Drunk History, and then tells the the drunk version of the story and it has been adapted into quite a few stage plays. There's even a musical which I want WanNa hear all about the greenbrier ghost, the musical Britain by somebody named Clayton Zombie, which is fabulous name from. You. Know. Music and lyrics by example, and it was apparently there's a you can. You can read about it on new play exchange dot ORG. But it did seem to capture people's imagination. I'm surprised that we haven't seen it as a podcast. Yeah I mean I guess you know we are doing it as a podcast like a spooky Halloween fiction podcasts like thirteen days of Halloween from my radio featuring the original works have been bowling and a slew of other incredible writers, most of which are from right here in the Atlanta area. Made by our very own ride or die compatriots Matt. Frederick and the one and only Alex Williams who composed this This bay in track will don't worry Alex I. Know You listen to this show entirely for the part where we thank you at the end, we'll make sure to do I'm pretty sure newhouse might be haunted. What makes you say that the furniture is levitating in the ghost welcome home? Yeah that's that's spooky. You know what's really scaring. Missing out on Geico for help with homeowners and renters. Insurance GYCO makes it easy to see a bunch. Great. You're not sticking around. The bar is just getting started. Happy guy go we'd call today and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. GEICO PRESENTS MONSTER COUNSELING DRACULA. Tell me how you're feeling. No one understands how only these no one will even let me into their house I knock knock but they ignore me. What else I look in the mirror. Don't even see myself anymore if you don't see yourself clearly, can you really expect others to I'm having a breakthrough it's not easy to be a vampire but with gyco, it's super easy to switch and save hundreds on your car insurance. There's still a little bit of it epilogue here because if you're a fan of road trips in the area, you want to see the living, history? Go to US sixty in between Sam Black Church and the I sixty four entrance ramp You can pull see a state highway marker that sums up this story saying the following interred in a nearby Cemetery Zona Easter shoe her death in eighteen ninety seven was presumed natural until her spirit appeared to her mother to describe how she was killed by her husband Edward. Arrangements introduced himself as Edward by the way we made the editorial choice to go with the much cooler name. A top and apologies to the awards in the crowd you can go buy harassment's if you want man, the world is yours Carpe Diem and a autopsy on the zoomed body verified the apparitions account Edward found guilty of murder was sentenced to state prison. It it's strange because you'll later investigators Light Katie Letcher wile have have made some compelling arguments that. Mary Jane was leaning into a supernatural. Angle. To get leverage An and get her somewhat suspicious neighbours to to support her 'cause. You know whether or not you believe in ghosts. The fact of the matter is it worked and justice was served, and if you look at the evidence, we have now all one hundred and twenty four years later so. He did it like he he killed her right. We can agree that's pretty conclusive Oh. Yeah. With just about zero percent uncertainty. We we can conclude that but here's the thing. We do have a precedent that zone as mother likely would have been aware of. For perhaps shaping her telling of this go story in a way that might sway a jury right when Zona is life was taken. One of the places that her death was first reported we mentioned this was in a publication called the Greenbrier Independent on page three in January specifically the twenty eighth of Eighteen, Ninety, seven and it was only briefly mentioned but this is how it went. Mrs Easy Shoe wife of Es Shoe died at her home in the Richland's this county on Sunday last the twenty fourth. Age Twenty Second Years Mrs Shoe. A daughter of Mr Hedges he stir of Meadow Bluff district Mr Shoe formerly lived in Pocahontas County. But. On the very front page of this publication was a headline. A ghost. Story. And it went on to talk about a case in Australia that was happening around the same time. Ben Would you like to do a bit of this reading here? Sure. And we'll do this in perhaps the accent of the reporter. Won't of the most famous murder cases in Australia was discovered by the ghost of murdered man sitting on the rail of Damn. That's Australian. For Her spont- he into which his body had been thrown numberless people saw and the crime was do liberal home. Years after dying man making his confession said that he invented the Ghost, he witnessed the crime but was threatened with Death v divulged it as you wish to, and all the way he saw out of the impasse was to effect to see the ghost where the body will be found. As soon as he started, the store searches the power nervousness that no mercer other people began to say it until it's fame reach such dimensions lat a search was made and the body found and the murderers brought to. Justice that's interesting. Right? Because we're like we know Mary Jane is probably reading this paper course. Yes. Yeah. I was the front pace. She wouldn't have been able to miss it and it's also the paper that contains the announcement of her daughters tragic passing. Yes exactly. So and so maybe just maybe in this is to be fair this speculation on our part and the part of other other people who may share this belief but just maybe Mary Jane saw this and hatched a plan because She thought this would help. Galvanize local law enforcement authorities to. Do a better job investigating this or maybe it was unconscious on our part because she's in a very traumatized mental state at this time. So it's quite possible for example. that she read it and didn't consciously register it and it just affected what she believed. She experienced later you know what I mean. Absolutely. Yeah. Could have been a ghost you now i. It's interesting this this is hard to ignore. Don't you think Ben? The coincidence of this other story literally setting a precedent for you know concocting go story to make sure that someone's killer actually gets convicted in the same exact publication that the announcement of her daughter's death she definitely would have had is on that. Her being a bit of a shrewd woman, clearly and having known this gentleman was a bit of no good neck and also knowing that he was being super sketchy around the neck and I guess it being a quite patriarchal society. The mother would have had very little ability to do anything about that. You know just to call him out in public you know in that way so she would. Have had to go about it in a bit of a more circuitous path. Yeah, and I think that's an excellent point. I i. mean it reminds me of some of the other stuff we've done about the socio economic context all of exercises right? I was thinking the very same thing Ben. Yeah. Yeah. So that's I. Mean you can check out on on the other show we do stuff they want to know. I that's I. Think there's a lot to be said there we know that this is not necessarily the only case where people feel a murder has been revealed by ghost but at this time, even now in two thousand twenty, the case of the greenbrier ghost remains the only time in history that a murder conviction has been determined by a source purportedly beyond the grave here here. What do you think Ben have we done justice to this two-parter yet? Should we keep going I? Think I think we've I. Think we've done I. Think we have successfully made a two parter on purpose, which is which is big for us. You know I I want there to be ghost man but this is such a great story that I propose. We pass the torch to our fellow ridiculous historians to tell us some of their favorite ghost stories. What do you think? I I agree do you have any have? You had any brushes with the with the after world? I have there are things I can't explain. I, think automatically calling those Spirits are ghost is kind of explaining them. You know when I when I don't have the evidence I will see my family believes in a lot of that stuff historically yeah and my ex wife and one of my best friends Casey, is very much a spiritual person and is into like Wicca and a lot of that stuff and stuff that I'm not I. I wouldn't like pooh-pooh or anything, but it's not necessarily my wheelhouse or stuff that I fully understand or believe I would say but I would never judge anybody else for their beliefs or whatever they might be I did. I told the story on stuff. They don't want you to know before I don't tell the very abbreviated version of it. I had the closest thing that I would call a brush with the supernatural and I was late high school. The girl that I dated for really long time was older than me and she was in college and I would visit her after class and she'd wait for me in her car and it was really cold one day and I walked up to her car and she was sitting in the car and she looked like visibly shaken and she was kind. Of, like crying I said what's going on and she blew on the inside of her windshield and the signature appeared and it was the signature of her friend, our friend But her best friend MISA who had died in a car accident about three weeks prior, and I just got hit with the most you know intense sense of I am experiencing a ghostly apparition, a ghostly vision. That is what this is no about it and I was shaking I was moved to tears and I I really didn't know what to think and other than that's what this is and then A. Little time pass and I thought about it and it's like you know it's the kind of thing young girls do they write their names on the inside of you know foggy windshield with their fingers and if it had been recent enough oil on your fingers that would cause it to leave a mark that you could You know blow on you could see that kind of return but I swear to God ma'am, I felt the spirit I really did and then I sort of explained it away, which is almost sad but is it I couldn't deny that part of the story either. Yeah. Well I in the spirit of quid pro quo I'll give you story as well but first, Casey do you have a now that were gathered around our zoom campfire. Do you have something to tell us has the the flames through orange shadows and shades across your face? No. I have to kind of disappointing here although I do remember playing that Game Bloody Mary as a kid at at a friend's house. Oh God. Why would you? Why would you do hand? And and really really psyching ourselves up and you know it was it was like an old house and it was full of weird noises and stuff. So you know we heard stuff felt like we saw stuff a candlelight but I'm pretty sure we were just kind of a highly suggestive maybe but yeah, that's about the closest I can recall from the ghostly realm. So. In the spirit of fairness than I will say without shouting out specific family members, there is a little bit of a stereotype. Persistent in days of your around. My ancestors Milan jeans. Usually, like allegations of witchcraft or they have secret. Of riches, they got through magical means dark magical means. And keep in mind the riches in like. Seventeen hundred eighteen hundreds rural Tennessee or not what you would consider riches in New York City you know what I mean but. For most of my life growing up, I've heard stories that hinge on things more like. pre cognitive dreams or clairvoyance for my family and in my lifetime I've I have seen things that I cannot as I try as try. I? May I cannot explain through Monday means. To give a light new. We used to travel all the time right in the days before the pandemic, and I can't wait to get on the road again with you guys but. On a lighter note, one of my favorite pranks in hotels, I will tell you i. hope you guys don't hate me after this because it may be a little mean for some folks in the proud but it's so fun I used to take shaving cream take shaving cream and you write a message on the mirror or cryptic message, and then you clean it off and then when someone turns on the shower and the room fogs up, then that message will be visible because the condensation will work the same way on the part where the the shaving cream was. So I used to write stuff like they're coming. In her. Spooky goes several haunt via shaving cream. I would be cool. Yeah. I don't know man I just I thought it was fun or plot twists by people's lives. You know what? I mean. It's a little bit of a little bit of light anarchy a little bit of sub genius stuff there it's fun. It's like making fake lost posters they used to make a missing her boomerangs stuff like that. That's pretty funny. Ben. That's very data I like that very much. Hey is this the last spooky episode of the season for us and I am I getting the calendar muddled up? Yeah I think you're right and all this will wrap it up for our Halloween Extravaganza. But can we just keep accused keep doing it a once you I mean it feels sometimes like it's always Halloween in America now feel like November's sorta Halloween a little bit. You know. It's it's it's happy Halloween. We've made up our own spin on the holiday. Our our our Halloween is just two months of Halloween. There we go. As we definitely have more spooky stories in the in the in the research material that we can talk about I. Don't know we don't have to limit ourselves. We don't you know maybe the real Halloween was the friends we made along the way. which is how you always end improv shoes if you just need to get out of the. Clutch her. But the. Yeah. We've added blast with this and you could say it's not how the way it's every day of the year. But we hope that you have enjoyed this eight just because this is coming out or the end of the season don't feel like he can't send us nicknames don't feel like they have to be spooky send. US. Whole nicknames shout out to Melissa in ridiculous historians who gave Ben Boom Bullet, which I'm frankly surprised did you think of that what already know our very first one and it's the most go to easy low hanging halloween, fruit that ever could be. Thanks for the call back full circle my friend full circle a happy. Everybody big. Thank you to Alex Williams. Big. Thank you Christopher Hoc- YODA's big. Thank you to use super producer Casey Packer. Big Red whatever John I'm fading guys at six o'clock here. It's Friday and I am ready to flee. I've kind of punchy through man. I'm kinda positive. All right. Let's leave it at that the next time. For more podcasts from iheartradio visit, the iheartradio. APP APPLE PODCASTS or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thirteen days of Halloween. A Remote Hotel, the most unusual guests, a tour guide that can't be trusted. And the newest arrival. Is You. Sound like someone trost. Starring Keegan Michael Key as the caretaker mentioned Salvato after all. This is it One story each night starting October nineteen and ending on Halloween. From iheartradio and bloom house television listen to Aaron. McKie's thirteen days of Halloween on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. What's up? I am machine gun Kelly and look I know Halloween is going to suck this year because there's no trick or treating, and all that I've got a tree. There's a musical podcast that I made with my friends twenty four K. Golden and Dr Data Data and Satan. Well saints not my friend, but Tommy Lee is and Tommy Lee is playing Satan but don't take it from me. Tell Him Satan thanks student feels great to be playing Satan on this podcast who listened to Halloween in hell on iheart radio, APP apple podcasts or whatever you get your podcasts on.

Mary Jane Casey Packer murder GEICO prosecutor US Tennessee Dr Nap Ted Ben West Virginia Producer apple Dr Wendy Walsh Mary Spirit Greenbrier county Alex Williams Elva Zona
Staying Abreast with the Butterball Turkey Talk-Line

FoodStuff

55:20 min | 1 year ago

Staying Abreast with the Butterball Turkey Talk-Line

"Today's episode is brought to you by homeadvisor. Finding the right pros for home. Projects can be tough and spark a lot of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job. Bob Will I get a fair price. That's where homeadvisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels. homeadvisor connects you to the right pro for the job in seconds and even helps so you get a fair price. Read reviews check. Project Cost Guys and book appointments go to Homeadvisor DOT COM or download the free homeadvisor APP to start your next project. You're about to hear his marketing. Will you won't see. AC Hotels Guest Room is marketing. We'll see as a room designed to maximize space and a desk devoid of clutter. That's actually meant to be I used. And that's precisely how it should be. AC hotels the perfectly precise hotel hello and welcome sabre production of iheartradio and stuff media. I'm Anne and I'm Laurin Vogel Bomb and today we're talking about the butterball water ball Turkey. Talk Line we are and it's a delight it is and this is one of those episodes sort of like the the wiener mobile episode. Where like they're not a sponsor no this is just a genuinely delightful thing and it was a beautiful coming together because it the idea idea was in part? Courtesy of our friend. Alex Alex Williams over at a firm rural and he loves the West Wing Sherry Aaron Sorkin show featuring Martin Sheen as the president. And yes and there's a whole seem about the butterball hotline. Yeah we'll I think we've got a clip this time of the year. There should be a hotline. You can call with questions about cooking. Turkeys especially eight hundred number with phones are staffed by experts there is when you need the butterball. Oh hotline butterball has hotline. It's an eight hundred number of the phones of staff experts. Are you kidding me. No God I'm sorry. I love my country. I love it so much so good. I watched that show forever ago and I still remember that when he bought it up I was like oh so I mentioned mentioned to you in passing. I thought maybe that could be really fun. Episode do and you had just happened to get an email about it. Yeah I got this like cold marketing email. Well not that I'm encouraging y'all to send me those From or if you do make it from something truly delightful I I got this marketing email from butterball and Whoa I was like heck. Yeah we want to do an interview with one of your employees and so we got to talk to the director of the Turkey. Talk Line Nicole Johnson and yeah it was just kismet. Just Turkey Kismet. It was wonderful. And also I love the Stephen Colbert. I think he's done it two or three times time. He'll go and work at the the Turkey talk line for a day and of course he gives terrible advice and I'm always wondering if they must pick up after like everything he said. Okay let's get to our question. Sure the Turkey talk line. What what is it well? The Turkey talk line is a free service. That home cooks can use to help troubleshoot problems with the star of many certainly American winter. Your holiday feasts the Turkey It's hosted by the international poultry brand butterball and as the name suggests these service started as a hotline line which if you don't remember what telephones were that's that's for for calling in to with your telephone and then you speak on that telephone into a live human representative But in these are modern times You can also text or live chat on the web or email or facebook or twitter or Alexa To connect to a live human. Or if you don't want to do any of those things you can just get the for when their website Also a blend spaniel. Oh I A lot of competitors have launched their own version but the one that really caught my eye is this apparently you can call the US Department of meat and poultry altri hotline eight eight eight six seven four six eight five four open until two on Thanksgiving. Yeah they want you have a good healthy safe Thanksgiving time. They and so do we do we a New York Times story. Detailed how in the seventies worried cooks could call Julia a child whose number was publicly listed and she would generally provide answers. They interviewed one of her friends. Who spent a lot of Thanksgiving with her and she's like? Oh Yeah. The phone's ringing. All Day I usually just picks up and talks him down. And that's one of my sweetest most favorite sweetest Things from our Julia Child episode. which if you haven't listened to seriously about it please goods and it was real good? She did on any got me a really really cute Julia child illustration that says Everything in moderation including moderation. Yeah Perfect Anyway Yes so there are competitors including at if you can time time travel Julia child butter. Ball's line is perhaps the most famous I would say so to work at the Turkey. Talk Line you have to have a four year degree in food or food adjacent sent program and it's fairly competitive. They only replace about one person a year. And they don't advertise open positions instead. They rely on word of mouth for the first three eight years after being hired newbies have to complete a one day training at the start of the season nicknamed butterball. University are all you. Generally this involves is being assigned a cooking method and then spending all day cooking a Turkey in that method with that method could be anything and compliance within reason and then they examined the twelve or so completed turkeys they the cooking times the level of Browning the amount of juice the color of the juice veterans have to complete advanced training. which is more of a refresher on butterball products in any updates in phone or computer systems for instance yes? They did recently introduced a function. Where an operator I can call you back to check it which is so nice? I know so supportive. It is and that's really what it's about because I read a lot of articles questioning how in in the world and this time of millennials are texting and avoiding of human interaction. How is this still pretty popular thing? Not only is it still thriving like not only is it still exists thriving. Yeah hundreds of thousands of people call in every year. Yeah and they said it's that comfort it's that that having somebody buddy to Kinda just calm down and reassure you okay. Oh it is going to be okay. It is but they have heard a lot of calls where things did not turn out okay. One of the first articles that comes up when searching butterball hotline is from southern living at titled. Here's what happens when a southerner calls the butterball Turkey hotline and it's a full of silly accounts of allegedly real calls the story they most because it was quoted in this article and then the New York Times quoted it as well. Well here's the classic. A man called in worried about whether his bird with on time. What state is your Turkey in? The expert asked trying to do a little culinary detective work Florida. Yeah I love it. They said they also get a lot of calls that are kind of confessional nature which cracks me up. Yeah and these can last from. I'm seconds like what temperature shouldn't even be two like hours like hours of just Just talking it's like a Turkey police. I think I read it to somebody. Made that compares one of the about this operators shared stories of of fight with their spouse around Turkey temperature command wanting to propose to his wife by placing the ring in the Turkey. He was dissuaded. A nervous newlywed. Afraid of disappointing is appointing her in laws. Calling from inside a closet whispering into the phone yes but most of them center on thawing the Turkey and interesting methods of doing that in bathtubs with your kids in oh no or this is my favorite storing one and losing it in the snow so they call the hotline. I say hey look I put my Turkey in this. No I can't find it. What should I say to that does rose in two thousand five? The line received thousands of calls from folks just plays from Hurricane Katrina asking if it was possible to micro Turkey which is oh yeah it should be under twelve pounds because it should fit in your microwave. Yes but to be able to. You need to write you. Need to physically be able to microwave it but other than that yes We do have some numbers for you. Oh yes we do. According to the butterball website one out of every three Thanksgiving Turkeys is a butterball Turkey in the United States their main implant in North Carolina processes some five hundred million pounds of Turkey per year. That's about two hundred twenty seven million kilos who and They're one of the the largest Turkey processing facilities in the world internationally. The expert about a fifth of of what they produce some one hundred million pounds of Turkey to over fifty countries every year. Wow Yeah these days. Over fifty people work the Turkey. Talk Line from November first to December twenty fourth from Naperville Illinois which is outside of Chicago. Cargo six. Am to six PM Thanksgiving at eight am to two PM. Christmas Eve all the over one hundred thousand questions they receive come from all over the US and Candida ten thousand of those calls on Thanksgiving a low stress of that. Who since they first started they have added mail and Spanish spanish-speaking? Experts and expanded from just a phone line to include all those new technological things. The calls really pick up on what butterball calls fall day. The Thursday the day before Thanksgiving to keep their voices from going horse and the operators reliance soup minty and or a lot of water and we do have some brief a brief history. Sorry for you. Share the butterball brand as it refers to Turkey's has been around since nineteen fifty four. The name was first trademarked in nineteen forty by one eight Walker. Who Wasn't Ohio Deli owner She sold it to one. Leo Peeters in one thousand nine hundred eighty one who then leased it to Chicago. Turkey company swift and company. I am in one thousand nine hundred four which eventually bought it Again just as it refers to Turkey's in the nineteen sixties which explains why there's an unrelated butterball farms is it produces butter sometimes apparently in ball form Since butterball the Turkey version of the company was acquired by Conagra Agra in one thousand nine hundred eighty then seaboard corporation in two thousand ten. It's currently operated as butterball. LLC and It's it's not. It's not all delightful delightful Turkey talk and Turkey town. The company and its employees have faced accusations in some convictions of animal cruelty Though they say that they're working on it and they are currently seriously sweating the changes that are happening in. US Immigration Law because a lot of the companies employees at their North Carolina are Haitian refugees of the two thousand ten earthquake. Who could face department? If some of these laws go through. Yeah butterball debuted Turkey. Talk Line for the holiday season and nineteen eighty-one. The original team was made made up of six home economists. Who weighed in on eleven thousand Turkey based questions? This team was composed entirely of women. It was the brainchild and child of an executive at a Chicago Public Relations Firm. Who thought it would be a good way to help people who had experienced but she called Turkey trauma Turkey trauma serious? Yes yes and food experts. Consider this a genius of marketing and do liken it to calling the please please help please. I have a problem but I cannot outsold on my own. So Great Yeah they added their email service in two thousand six Web Chat in two thousand twelve and end. The first man joined the talkline team in two thousand thirteen Apparently they they realized that they were being a little bit sexist and they're Turkey cooking's options as one in four collars collars to the talkline at that point. We're in fact dudes We just over on a cell phone number told you would just Betty Crocker. Oh yeah and I do find it fascinating the I think at least for me. I don't WANNA generally for everybody but I forget that you didn't used to not have access to the Internet so readily like you couldn't just go on and be like yeah. I can only imagine the comfort of of having somebody to talk to. And just when you're all alone own in the kitchen and you've got all these expectations writing on this meal. But on top of that Betty Crocker came into existence because so many women you were writing the company and it was all men Oh funding and they thought that the women didn't weren't gonNA didn't trust their authority or they were talking about so betty Crocker's occurs fictional. It just made up fascinating story. Oh Man I want to do an episode on Betty Crocker. All I loved it I loved every bit of it tall. Well let's do it but I also loved every bit of this interview. Yes yes yes and we do right because we do have this heck and delightful interview With with Nicole Johnson the director of the Turkey talk line but I got a quick break for word from our sponsor Today's episode is brought to you by native native creates personal care products right now. They've got lines of deodorant body wash and toothpaste and they sent us some of their deodorant to try out. I got the lavender and rose because at the time I believe that lavender would help me. In the case that Lyon were to attack. 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For twenty percent off your first purchase visit native Deodorant Dot Com and use Promo code saver saver during checkout that's twenty percent off with free shipping and free returns by visiting Native Deodorant Dot Com. And using the Promo Code Saver to let them know that we sent you. This episode is brought to you by homeadvisor home. Projects can be tough and finding the right pros to help with those projects can be even harder and sparkle of questions. Like how do I find a pro who can help. Will they do a good job. We'll get a fair price. Luckily that's where homeadvisor can help from leaky. Faucets to major remodels and everything in between homeadvisor can match you with top rated raided local pros in seconds. The pros have been reviewed by your neighbors. See you can see what others thought of their work. And with homeadvisor's true cost guide. You can see what others paid for similar projects in your area so you can check if you're getting a fair price and to top it all off. You can even book Appointments Online at a time that works for you home. Projects have never been easier with homeadvisor so so get started on your next project today to find the right pro at a fair price. Just ask homeadvisor go to homeadvisor DOT COM or download the free award-winning homeadvisor APP. That's homeadvisor is our dot com or download the free APP Then we're back. Thank you sponsor yes thank you. Yeah and we we we have this wonderful wonderful interview that we were just smiling entire time. Oh yeah they. I'm not sure if any of it will have made it into the clip but even just the hold music was comforting. It was wondering and wonderful. Yes so without further ado let's get into Hi Guy so this is Nicole Johnson with the butterball Turkey. Talk Line Gene. We're excited to talk with you guys today. it's crazy to believe it's hard to think that we're just Days weeks away from our next holiday would Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. And it's great for us really here talkline We're getting a lot of phone calls emails chat tech a lot of ways to reach us About Fun ways to prepare your holiday meal. I think a lot of those would be curious to know. How did you end up working for the Turkey? Talk Line. Well well how did you get there. So that's a really good question I've actually been here for eighteen years but it's a question that I received eighteen years ago. Oh and the question that I still received now It's it's it's really cold because they talk line itself has been in existence for thirty nine years The average tenure of our teammates here is sixteen seventeen years And I personally joined the talkline. I was finishing finishing up graduate school. Nutrition dykes with my area of interest. And what am I greg. Teachers actually was Ah talkline expert herself here you're and said that they had some openings for the seasonal position At a place called butterball Turkey. Talk Line to be honest. I don't I don't know if I'd ever heard of it. Prior to that 'cause I've heard of butterball Turkey but not the talk right itself So I interviewed for the position and it worked out great with my own on schedule and You know eighteen years later I'm still here and going strong and some changes have happened with myself. I'm married Mary now. My husband and I actually been married for eighteen years and have four little butterball of our own so just really a great place to be a lot of these individuals started my early twenties and mid forties and a lot of them. Kinda see me grow up and start my own family and Just a really. It's a good. It's a good family here really is well. It's so sweet. Couldn't can you tell us a little bit more about about. Who are your your compatriots on on the line there like what it would have the qualifications? Sure so everyone has A food background if you will Everyone has has a minimum of a four year degree. Ideally in nutrition dietetic or home related area. A lot of us have graduate IN SOMEBODY'S DOCTORATES doctorates which is fantastic. And it's a seasonal position so outside of the months that were opened the talkline officially opened November number first through December twenty four. So Christmas Eve is our last day and It's a seasonal position for the team. So outside the Talk Ryan a lot or maintaining full time in positions in food related areas such as registered dieticians. Home Mac teachers coronary instructors Trained range chef. We have a couple of food stylists We have one gentleman named Stan. He's at your retired food. Scientists a lot of really great. Very cool all Everyone brings a lot of good Food you know and knowledge and expertise if you will to the table But but truly you have to have a lot of compassion Sometimes you might get a phone call and what might seem like a silly question or something that You know maybe isn't isn't a huge concern to us right. Because we are the experts who have the expertise and the knowledge you can hear it in their voice and the other Ryan. It's it's a big deal to our consumers so oh you may get a phone. Call that is you know a minute in length or SOM- upwards of thirty minutes Those are the ones that I really like Having four little Kiddos at home I love it when I get a mom on the line. I hear her kids in the background. ABC's on her way to the grocery store maybe she'd been in the grocery just restore. She's got her kid in the car and it kind of her like she's frantic. She's trying to figure out exactly what size Turkey by and You know she she just needs my help and and those are the kind of calls it I really like and before you know it. We're talking about other side dishes are. I'm hearing about the family and friends that she has coming over her. You know her mother-in-law that she's he's really gotta please really relate to. Those are the ones I really like helping But again you know the phone truly is hard hard to talk line. It's my favorite way to talk to consumers or related information. Give our advice. But of course we're evolving with you know technology and trends friends So many other ways to reach US email chat tax. Of course we're on social media we partner with Alexa last year brought brought that back again this year. So if you have that Alexis skill set in your kitchen you can simply say Alexa. Ask butterball how do I saw my twenty pound Turkey. It's really cool to she's going to give give you answering your very own kitchen so you know if you have someone you're making stuffiness or you're working on another side dish. She get all that information right. Your very own kitchen It's really a lot of really good ways to reach your information out the incredible future That's right We we were wondering we read about butterball university could you. Could you tell us a little bit about that. So butterball you who is It's great it's something we do every single year It's conducted by our supervisors all of our culinary cooking trainings are conducted by our supervisors. Have a fantastic team of five for females and one male And they will conduct Again what's called butterball. You and that is a primary training. The focus is for Our freshman our first steer team numbers that we bring on in for also team members that are accruing their years. Two and three Seasons is like us so it's really a good way for them to learn everything About the whole Turkey and the many ways in which to prepare it obviously that the the the preferred a traditional methods that open pan method. But we're keeping up with trends and technology and seen this new generation of millennials. Anyone entering the kitchen and they want to help their repair to Thanksgiving meal but also put their own stamp on the day so they WANNA try preparing their Turkey and new methods so with that said we need to keep up with the trends. Whether it's air frying. We saw a lot of airframe this year. We always get a lot of questions on deep frying crackpot electric tap roaster oester outdoor grill microwave with a really big joke last year on social media. you know people are calling you really prepare your Turkey to microwave you know. It's not the the ideal in Turkey. Twelve pounds or under. But if you're calling us on Thanksgiving Day in if you're ovens you know. Recently out of commission or is not calibrated correctly. We occupied with other side dishes. You absolutely can prepare your Turkey in a microwave so sometimes those are the kinds of situations where you know. It's not the ideal way he but we're going to get you through it right. You have an outdoor grill. Can we use the microwave So with that said we make sure that all of our staff whether it's freshman years years two or three or even folks for thirty plus years They're they're well equipped and trained with other ways in which prepare the Turkey It's an eight eight hour day and Each of our attendees or assign different methods preparing a Turkey So you're going to show up to class if that morning and supervisor will dictate to you okay so Indra. You're going to be assigned electric countertop roster and Kirkeby assigned microwave and different methods leads and then at the very end of the training we have a very large long counter sort of an island area. Everyone goes ahead and presents their Turkey To the team and we talk about different characteristics of how it turned out and aesthetically. Did it give you that Golden Brown if it didn't give you that Golden Brown. What kind kind of recipe can we recommend consumers how they can make it look Golden Brown And it's it's it's really a good training day Really for everyone everyone I I love to sit and observe it because I always learn something new every year And we also touch a little bit on food safety in all of our trainings of course meat thermometer later in every interview that we do probably almost every consumer that we talked to. We always talk about your best friend on Thanksgiving or any day for that matters. Truly your meat thermometer Trauma Related Chuck for done. This one eighty I one seventy breast right And that's a good thing too is a lot of times people will call. And we'll tell them what he aiding the FI and they'll say well I kind of know where this is that the Turkey but you can kind of hear that hesitation their voice actually tell them not to worry hop on the butterball dot com website. And I'm a very visual person myself. which is a good thing to have on the BUTTERBALL DOT COM website? We have a how to video in there. I think it's about thirty seconds in length. One of which is telling you showing you exactly where to place that meet demerge check for done this but of course that's one thing we demo in the butterball. You training So really a lot of good topics we cover at the butterball you training. It's it's one of my favorites. I just I just had the thought like it. It never occurred to me before that if your Turkey just isn't quite brown enough like I have a kitchen torch like we can fix this You sound like a food stylist. WHOA I have a girlfriend? WHO's a food stylist and she actually has done that before? So I love Oh Would you would you tell us just just like what. What is it day on the line like well? It depends I told you that our first day officially were open every year for the US US Turkey. Talk Line is November. I but I should back it up a bit because we actually all get together in October for all of those trainings. So butterball you is is one that we talked about It'd be in training is another training that all of our staff attends regardless of their Tenure and that is a day to supervisor spearhead spearhead. They do a fantastic job at it. we've already covered how to prepare the whole Turkey using different methods here at advanced training. Any we talk about some of our products that are products aside from the whole Turkey so that Turkey breast. We have a lot of questions on that bone in Products Boneless and really talk about some of the other products that we have available which is good because we would get a lot of questions on that as well In addition to do those cooking or culinary type trainings. We also have trainings for our social team. We have a specific group of individuals that answer social media. FACEBOOK and twitter are super popular in this year. So we have a training That covers that and we also have a date. It's called kickoff and and that's a lot of fun it's all the team gets together. Corporate section located in North Carolina. This office is located in Naperville Illinois or should right out of Chicago so today okay when we all get together about seventy five of us in the room and we have different Teams that will come in and give us presentations We're partner with masterbuilt. The folks that put out the deep fryers they will come in and do a presentation or also partner with thermal works They actually put out a really nice thermometer so they will come in and give us some thermometer. UPDATES and reiterate how to properly use a thermometer. Different types of thermometer are that are out there how to calibrate their mom that kind of thing and it's a real high energy day But we also serve Canadian thanksgiving and a lot of people ooh every time. I say this don't realize that candidate has their Thanksgiving different than the. US There thanksgiving Around Columbus Day our Columbus Day so this year. It was Monday Sunday October. Fourteen and We open up our talkline to to those Canadian folks that want to call us and Eskandar Turkey questions so that's a lot of fun as well. How but Dana Talkline the closer you get to Thanksgiving the bizarre? It is All hands on deck. We have fifty fifty team members here. All of us are staffed. The Week of Thanksgiving super busy week. We extend our hours. We have a lot of media. radio interviews that were scheduled with and a lot of TV crew. They're coming in and out of here alive skype interviews. Just really get the word out there that were you know one eight hundred phone number Free of charge here to help just to simply help consumers and You know give them good Turkey preparation advice but the closer we get to Thanksgiving the year. We are the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. We're open until ten PM and then we open as early as five. AM on Thanksgiving Day. Oh we all working eight or ten hour shifts and everybody says to us only okay so you work for butterball you worked for the Turkey crying. You've been there for X. amount of years but you don't really go and you don't really work on Thanksgiving Day and they always laugh and say well you had. Of course I do is our most important days a year. Actually call what you have four kids. There's no way of course I do. You know my husband's on home during Turkey duty himself but we have our own little celebration here We feed our staff the entire hire Thanksgiving Week. We have a couple of our chefs. Here that will take time off the phone and Bill Nolan's one of our supervisor. He's also chef outside talkline and he prepared What did he do for us? This your Turkey. Chili Kurt did pull Turkey. Sandwich So we have Turkey meals throughout the and then on Thanksgiving Day we change it up a little bit and we actually bring in Soup and salad and some Pasta Asta. We were really big friends. Giving we call it. We all take different shifts on Thanksgiving Day. So it's really high energy here. You lead pretty tired because it's non nonstop talking But you leave feeling really good majority of the people that we talked to You know everyone's really like grateful. Sometimes there's a little bit of a week to get through us but we've actually added a callback feature So if you don't WanNa have to wait to talk to one of us we're GonNa ask you for your phone number. There's a little recording you enter it and then we're going to call you back once it's your your place in line will call you back so you don't have to be stuck waiting on the phone to talk to us so it's a good service we like it does sounds amazing Have you never have to ask any lowering. Have you guys ever ever called prior to this US chat right now. Have you guys ever had to call us or known. Anyone who has called US always loved. Ask that well. I haven't but I wish I had known about because I actually do. I cook the Turkey in my family but a friend of mine. This episode is partly inspired by him because he was telling me how much he loved this existed and how comforting found it and he loves the West Wing and there's a whole code in the West Wing for the president it calls and then I was thinking also of Stephen Colbert. He does that thing on it. And you were saying that you get the media that comes in what yes what do you think about. Ah Well let me tell you. It's honestly pretty amazing. Because I am a mom with four kids where my you know. Yoga Pants and tennis issue nine times out of the year right and yeah. It's amazing to go from that SORTA routine to having a position like this. Where this year are we were? I don't know if you guys know this. But we were partnered with Freddie Prince Junior and he came here and he's put out A Cook and yes. It's awesome. He came to our talkline office. The the the nicest guy in the world Came and he actually put out a cook this year. There's a lot of fun recipes ultimate host if you will came here and sat down right next to us. An answer consumer phone calls. It was the coolest thing ever over A lot of fun to do something like that this year He was very knowledgeable. Very sweet very cordial we. We all got pictures with them and the team just absolutely adored him so it could not have been preparing. It was fantastic. I think maybe two years ago Stephen Colbert came here our to our talkline office. He was an absolute hoot. His interaction with the caller was such a stitch. So that was a lot of fun but we we do. We have a whole team of media. Folks that are trained And they will fly out to California New York So we do a lot of really fun interviews with access his Hollywood Kathy Lee and Hoda And they love it right because it's just a feel good story We we have a lot of funny phone phone calls or texts emails that we can always share we. I mean you can imagine we. We've been here for so many years. We hear a lot of really funny things to But no I mean the the media of course is a lot of fun and we're really grateful they they WANNA talk to us every year. So it's a win win Speaking have those those funny stories we were going to ask about those as well and before we. I mean we were when we were waiting to do this. We were talking about how just a relief it must be if you're panicking panicking and you've got all these people over and you're you and something is wrong. Yes Turkey is wrong and but you know you call this number you get this very relaxing hold museum and and just to someone with a with a kind voice and and you know care in their heart is there to I'm to talk you down a little bit. Do you feel partially like psychology. Think call that like a Turkey counselor or are yes kind. Pathetic understanding a listener. Those are really good characteristics of their good traits. You have to have to work we're here Because like you said we we get those phone calls and sometimes they're on speakerphone. And it's and it's a husband and wife that maybe she's thinking one way and he's thinking talking about her and maybe there's no wrong way sometimes there might be But it's just sometimes just talking it out with someone and brainstorming some ideas or you know now. They're realizing that. Maybe their group has doubled in size. And what can they do. Maybe they don't have time to Turkey. And what can we do or maybe there without without a meat thermometer. What can they do you know with that kind of situation or There need to prepare to Turkey's at the same time or there's just so many different scenarios that we here our number one question that we get year after year is About fine people don't realize it takes twenty four hours for every four pounds of Turkey. Meat Breath on your fridge. And if they're calling us on Thanksgiving muck yeah and they have a you know twenty five pound Turkey. They don't have enough time to thaw so we can suggests a cold water bath method But sometimes they don't Wanna do either of the cold water bath refrigeration. So they're gonna be very creative ways they they will come up with fine pop it in an outdoor Jacuzzi and it's very high speed or one lady was gonna use her dishwasher cycle so To throw her Turkey in there. Or you know wrapping your electric blanket or on a very very very creative ways that we've heard over the years Create a phrase definitely award for creative but not the safest right so we. We definitely counseled them on. They can do in the future but and hope they take away that message but there's some good ones. I actually received a really cute call this year There were some girls that they're doing a friendsgiving during college. They couldn't go home for whatever whatever reason but they're going to do their own party. which I thought was super q because a couple of my kids are teenagers? I just thought that was really cute. And they were Turkey fan but the girls want an all all white meats. They're ready Turkey breast and they wanted to do them in crackpots and she had nine crackpots she borrowed from like family and friends. I guess in the area they were all plugged into her like very small apartment. You know I sort of assumed. She was calling to get like recommendations or instructions for the crackpot. Well she looked it up on the website so I kind of thought well from what is what is she calling about was she wanted to make sure or I guess if I thought she was going to blow a feud with have nine in crop has slugger throughout her little apartment. I started laughing but she was serious. I said Oh you know I I don't know about that. I said I'm not you know electrical expert. I said but let's play safe and why don't we do three or four crock pots and we'll throw a couple in the oven. And you can. You don't want in your neighbor's apartment. She thought that was pretty cute. So we do. We hear really really fun. Things like that over the years. You know it's never a dull moment here. Never dull moments I love. How specific that is? They're all GONNA burn down my apartment. Oh my gosh we do have a little bit more more of this interview but first we have a quick break for word from our sponsor If it drives arrives floats or flies you can learn all about it on car stuff with me your host Scott Benjamin. I'm not going to throw any wrenches your way okay. Every week we take a deep dive into the world of these incredible machines and the people and the technology that make them a reality. You know the Gasser. Is You know the people that were into street. Racing for real with new shows. Editing tweak and almost a decade of podcast archives archives. You're sure to find something. You love car stuff podcast Mike. That's kind of cool. That's a that's a funky design a like it I like the bucking the system. They're going their own way with us. We cover everything from the birth of the automobile right up to the present day and everything in between who ever think of taking an outhouse. Making that into a high-rise iheartradio is number one for podcast. 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Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the Ice Nice by some nights. He even slept in his hockey skates Pete practiced and practiced until one day when he was forty seven. Pete realized he just wasn't that good so he threw his skates in the trash. But then you heard how diko proud partner of NHL good save money on car insurance so he switched and saved a bunch so it it all worked out. We're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into the interview after all this Turkey. Talk you you still so you still make. I mean you still have one for Thanksgiving at home. I do actually so. I'm here pretty early in the morning because of all of our media that we have on Thanksgiving Gene Day Thursday at four in the morning this year but We're done by six in the evening and then My husband actually goes with our kiddos To his MOM's house in my mom's house and then he brings home all the leftovers. Oh yeah which is really fun. He's always does a Turkey on the grill. which is delicious like it goes leftovers and then my Folks always do a Turkey in an oven cooking bag which a lot of people are not really familiar with it. But it's popular. It's it's nice if you want. All of your mass contain right in the bag it yield a lot of dripping down his leak is it's a moist cake. Cook methods to get a lot of drippings try mom uses in her gravy obviously But but your question yet and I get those leftovers as well. So it's a little bit later of a celebration for Turkey but I definitely a little bit later in the evening leaving So if you're you're up that early in your there until six and you're you're on the phone presumably most of the day. How do you have any tricks for preserving your voice you know I have a lot of fluid drought the day? Believe it or not I take a lot of breaks Naturally all of our team team actually I was mentioned that we you know. Make sure that the staff is fully fed. I feel like a well-fed staff is happy staff so we make sure that everyone's really well-fed And we do. We definitely like to eat. We like to eat our meals or snacks. We have a live desserts for the team. And we're lucky because like I said we have to due to chefs. That are here on the team with us and they prepare. We have a large test kitchen here in our office. So they prepare Total I think it's ten of actually early today. Prepare all of our meals for us here. And we're we're we're very well taken care of. That's for sure So you're talking about now I was reading a lot of articles about yes you have this Alexa feature and instagram and texting and It seems though that in this millennial world where no one likes to be on the phone phone people still love calling impart accurate. That that kind of calming voice or somebody to just tell them human connection right. It's like that human connection or that that peace a lot of people think well. Maybe it's you know the millennials or even younger they don't WanNa call or they'd rather taxed and that might the case in some but we received callers of all ages male female and first time cooks and and you know you think Oh i Time Cook Ah must be a new bride and she must be early twenty s not the case. We have some people that they're not handed that time if you will. Until they're you know sixty or seventy years old and now they're finally hosting their first Thanksgiving meal and they kind of laugh at first saying you wouldn't believe it but you know my families or my mom who maybe recently passed away. She's always done Thanksgiving meal. And now I'm responsible and and you know they have grandkids then so so definitely a lot of calls whether their their first time clock or more season Cook You know we're certainly here to help anyone. We'll get some phone calls sometimes and they'll practice the conversation by saying I don't actually have a butterball Turkey but with you know this recipe or maybe another year and of course we would love right. Because that's ah here all the great advantage of the butterball. We'd love for you to have that brand but if you don't weaken certainly still help you We we get a lot of questions on other side dishes or or that kind of thing as well so look at the question. I got blowing the fuse. That's right you never know who's going to be on the other and Can I ask to your kids like to cook. You know what my daughter does and I think my youngest son. My two older ones not so much but I think my my two younger under one do in fact Have a really cute picture of my daughter in a butterball apron and for Christmas this year she wanted Some new SPATULA. She's more of a Baker but she wants the new statue ours and that kind of thing I thought well that's easy. She's only nine so one of the top items on her Christmas. Pink course they had to be paying but we did She uh-huh Livia tornadoes. She'd be very happy in her stocking. She's going to get new spatulas and a new apron and and that kind of thing but my husband does allow the cooking and force while you know at home as well which is nice. He's very very good at that. So very lucky And what what are you to To Do Trish in in dietetic to to to to begin with well My mom growing up. My mom is actually a nurse an RN and she worked in the emergency room. Initially I thought I wanted to go into nursing so I started those core core science classes that are similar to nutrition dietetic field and As it was in the program I believe I also talk. Forget the name of it but it it was like a psychology are conflict type class and and kind of partner the two together Realize they wanted to maybe council a a little bit more than the clinical aspect of it And then also knew I wanted to go into corporate so when I was in graduate school. We do different for internship. We do different rotations. We do like long term care facility rotation food service one which was corporate and It actually she wasn't butterball corporate that I did my rotation and it was another area but after I did that I realized that I definitely liked the corporate area and one to Intertwined that sort of counseling aspect and You know like I said when interviews. You're eighteen years ago. Just we're really lucky to still be here eighteen years years later and Very happy here You've you've talked about this a little bit but I'm but What what's the most rewarding part of the job for for you? I think the most rewarding part is is kind of a two part I love the camaraderie of our team You know having been here for eighteen years. There's a lot of my teammates have seen me through through a lot of things they've seen me different stages of my life. They see me get married. They see me have four four little kids And they've Kinda see me grow up over the years. I love that aspect I I love the bonds and the friendships that I have with the team here there and I also love helping the consumer on the other end there so very grateful that we're here Especially for those that like we said panicked tone in their voice But we talk through talking about off the legend talking through some things and they're they're really grateful for our help so it's just rewarding and in both those aspects so we were talking right before this started. I we believe this is going to publish. Unfortunately the day after falling Thursday. But maybe that's only for Thanksgiving now that I think about it. Oh because because Christmas moves around. That's true we we read. What about thawing Thursday? And how important it is. You guys know that I'm thinking are you thinking. Twenty twenty Thursday is the day before Thanksgiving. Oh Oh oh it will definitely publish after that no loop I thought well. Maybe they're talking. Twenty twenty okay. So saw Thursday this day or national failure Turkey Day. Thursday before Thanksgiving okay. Who knows we could start a trend though? Maybe we're GONNA do thought Thursday before career Thanksgiving you know for anyone who's listening to this. Obviously if they need help help they know who to call. But do you have any kind of general tips to have a smooth Thanksgiving thanksgiving move move Turkey smooth better We actually have what we call our Four teeth and and the first one is fine and just real briefly I'll just review it So fine is done to of one ways or one of two to way rather it's either thawing your Turkey in a refrigerator remembering that it takes twenty four hours for every four pounds of Turkey meat to bridge so if you have a twenty ninety pound Turkey it's GonNa take a good five days if they're short on time you can use the cold water bath method still safe acceptable but much faster method. It's a half hour per pound so you're twenty pound Turkey would take hours using that. Nothing the second T.. Is Meat Thermometer I always say that your best friend on Thanksgiving Day and that's going to register one eighty in the Cy one seventy in the breast and if you've opted to stuff your Turkey you can start that meat. Thermometer right into at the center of the stuffing and when it registered one sixty five in the center of the stuffing Turkey ct on and the third key is what we call tenting. Ideally we'd like you to roaster Turkey in an open shallow roasting pan About two to two and a half inches tall on a flat rack. Ideally to elevate elevate that Turkey up off the Pan allow for that Nice hot circulating air for Uniform Cook and we recommend doing it uncovered until about two-thirds through the way the cooking process you may notice that the breast area is not Browning Or actually Browning faster than the rest of the Turkeys you you take your piece of foil or tent and about the nope size of milk sheet of paper new content or shield at breast area and it actually helps to to help prevent the breath from over Browning so so so far we have signed thermometer tenting and in the last that we call a two to our rule and that pertains to leftovers ideally sliced meat off the Turkey within two hours or less and get it in the refrigerator raider so it can begin to start cooling down so sign thermometer tenting to our role but of course. If you don't remember those or you need to talk the more detail detail please reach out to us. That's why we're here. One eight hundred butterball their phone number and we're here every day now through Christmas Eve over the next. What is that nine days or so into nine days and Of course you can also reach us. Oh email chat or on social so media facebook and twitter visit the butterball dot com website. We have a lot of how to videos on there. A lot of Turkey calculators you wondering what size Turkey to buy you can simply Lee enter into our Turkey calculator. How many guests here anticipating in? It's GonNa compute out what size Turkey for you to purchase antastic We have a lot of prerecorded messages on our one. Eight hundred phone number so if you call us and it's maybe midnight here and we're not open no we can't talk to you but you can listen to prerecorded recorded messages. which is fantastic Mentioned that we're partnered with Alexis skill set so if you had the skill set in your kitchen you get your answers trillion anytime so so Again not not hesitate to reach out to us. That's why we're we're here to help you. Absolutely oh thank you so much. It's been in such a delight Speaking with you Is there I mean. I feel like that covers anything but is there. Is there any wish we we should. We should have asked that. We didn't that you'd like to know I think it's I think it's perfect and I should mention for those that want to text us which I love texting of course That's a different phone number and I will give it to you. It's eight four. Four eight seven seven three four five six eight four four eight seven seven three four five six and you can simply just text us your Turkey question. Sometimes people even text us New ways of a per pair their Turkey. We've even gotten pictures of kids in a grocery cart with their turkeys. We've gotten Pretty so you know centerpieces and we love getting the pictures. So that's definitely another way reach us the number GONNA. We're GONNA answer you back with taxed. So if that's your your favorite way of communicating in have at it. We're here to help but have a great Christmas and great holidays and thanks for talking you guys and that brings us to the end of this episode. Oh well I I hope that that Y'all were is emotionally bolstered. My it is we were. We were smiling. Golda yeah there is. There's one one point I forget where we're both any and I did like the home alone. Yeah face like hands on either sides of face yeah It was pretty great. It was wonderful just coming together if things right at the end of the year the end of the decade And we hope that you listeners. If you're listening to this right when it comes out maybe it will be some healthy you but we hope you have a wonderful save happy holiday colladay end of the year. Whatever it is yes if you choose to cook a Turkey during that time that you have just the best safest experience doing so ended ended delicious results all and we're really thankful to have you so? Yeah just no we appreciate it so much we love hearing from you and send you can contact. Our email is hello at favored pod DOT com also in social media. You can find us on facebook twitter and Instagram at saver pod. We do I hope to hear from you. Sabre is a production of iheartradio and stuff media to hear more podcast from my heart radio. visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows does thanks as always towards Super Producers Dylan Vacant and Andrew Howard. We're thankful for you too. Thanks to you for listening and lots more. Good things are coming. Your Way My name is Brandon Phipps. I want you to do away with me. Aboard Apollo Eleven. We'll be covering the mission from start to finish day by day hour by hour minute by minute suffused with original music and fully immersive sound effects. This podcast is going to be the next best thing to actually being aboard Apollo Eleven. This is nine days in July new episodes. So it's arrive every Thursday through February six. Listen to nine days in July on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

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10 | Invisible Hands

Unobscured

47:01 min | 1 year ago

10 | Invisible Hands

"It welcomed on obscured a production of iheartradio and Aaron Monkey. A bloody flag hung over the door. Cora stepped up onto the platform surrounded by black drapery that covered the columns of the mechanics institute after all they were in mourning for the honor. Dead the flag didn't represent the civil war. Though and the blood on the flag wasn't decorative it was a relic from dark event. That took place a year before America's first black daily newspaper Apor. The New Orleans Tribune had called political convention. The Tribune had been founded by an Afro Creole doctor named Louis Charles Rudini as rallying point I Louisiana radicals and it commanded respect among the states reformers. They met to confirm an eighteen. Sixty four state constitution that had stripped power from. I'm the planter class and abolish slavery the backlash though was vicious white. Planters had the ear of general banks. The Union Army Commander Ender governing the state they said Louisiana should have an I quote a government of white people for the exclusive political benefits of the white race. Yeah they weren't subtle about it at all. The planters were powerful though they convinced banks to keep the plantation system and he I used the Union army to force Black Louisianans to keep working the land of any plans or who would declare loyalty to the United States. His soldiers marched the roads capturing anyone who left their work meanwhile he let imprison confederate soldiers walk but the black folk on the sharp appended. These policies didn't go quietly. The Tribune started by publishing articles showing how banks was forcing workers to keep living in slavery. It was a voice that would echo back across the Atlantic or Victor Hugo would return with the letter to the tribune encouraging the radicals to keep fighting for justice messages came from across the last horizon. As well the spirit of John Brown appeared to honoree and the Sircar. Monique with a word of celebration. He praised the tribune for its defense of black equality so in eighteen sixty six when the Tribune announced a convention to amend the earlier constitution. Touche's and finally give black men the right to vote in Louisiana people came in crowds. The meeting started on a hopeful note to that first night. The cities police fought with a group of armed delegates who were defending the convention and killed two of them sadly it was a dire omen of what would happen the next day when black delegates to the convention arrived at the Mechanics Institute the next morning for the second day of the meeting. They were confronted by a crowd of white opponents that that was swelling with anger. Here's historian Emily Clark. The day begins with some fanfare. There's a little parade of black. New Orleanians begins marching to the mechanics institute to celebrate this. This is GonNa be a great day but it's not it ends up being an absolutely horrid horrid day because a white mob job aided by local police and firefighters storm the building and massacre many of the delegates inside most of the delegates were unarmed but that white supremacist mob was heavily armed over. Forty people died that day almost all of them. Black violence like this in eighteen. Sixty six ended up galvanizing nizing new brand of reconstruction politics nationally which then worked harder to promote black civil rights in the wake of the violence. Someone someone had collected the tattered flag and tucked it away when the community gathered a whole the memorial service for the convention. They brought it out again. It was a stark reminder of the nation they were working to build and of the courage and sacrifices some had made to bring that nation that Louisiana that New Orleans into being exactly a year later that chorus stepped into the mechanic institute to honor those who were killed that day afterwards. The Tribune published her poems call for solemn mournful bells to ring out over the city. Nathan must've been proud but when he wrote to the Rochester Express to give them news who is on the progress of reconstruction he wasn't praising chorus powers of oratory instead he was reporting on a new scourge in the city people were fleeing in New Orleans in the face of deadly diseases cholera and yellow fever Nathan so often traveling. Those streets as he rallied for change came home one night in late. September feeling dizzy and shivering fever by October I had burned through his body. Henrietta less less than a year old wasn't strong enough to fight off the infection by October fifteenth. They were both dead grieving her losses. Cora retreated back to the northeast. The future that she had envisioned with her radical husband had been taken away away. If Cora was going to find peace as so many others like her had wanted it would have to come from the most unusual places the spirits of the dead this is on obscured. I'm Aaron McKie. uh-huh uh-huh Benjamin Butler led the charge during the war. He was the general in command of the Union forces that sees New Orleans when he returned to Massachusetts he was elected to the United States. Congress during the time. That Nathan Daniels was in Washington he had connected with Butler who had once been his superior officer in Washington the the two men lobbied together for reconstruction but they were opposed by Andrew. Johnson like General Banks Johnson's opinions were swayed by the a powerful interests of southern planters. Who still wielded enough influence to reach into the White House? It was the compromises that President Johnson made and his veto towa bills supporting the newly freed black Americans that put him in general Butler's crosshairs after all Butler had never been shy about fighting southern white leaders. He considered traitors to the nation. They considered him evil. They call him beast Butler. When President Johnson was impeached beast? The Butler was the ringmaster who cory graff the events. In the years before she went to New Orleans Cora had been the spirit advisor to radical congressman in just like Butler they pushed for reconstruction policies that put the government of the south. In the hands of northern reformers. Lincoln Spirit had spoken through core frequently and guided their approach to policy alongside. Dead Boston abolitionist. Ministers and the spirit of William Wilberforce now that she'd returned to the capital with grief stripping her of any shyness she might have had. She took bolder steps than she ever had. Before in September of eighteen sixty eight she joined a spiritualist originalist newspaper editor in confronting President Andrew Johnson directly barging right into his White House office as soon as the door closed behind them. Cora Open her mouth in laughed but the voice wasn't her own as the papers reported it. Johnson was and I quote dumb with astonishment because the laugh was Abraham Lincoln's the voice that followed said let him laugh who wins no one in the room not cora not the reporter. Not President Johnson explained what the phrase meant but it was just months after Andrew. Johnson had been impeached by the house and the country was facing the new election. That would put grants in office. Chorus spirits addressed to Johnson was cryptic. There was no doubt that she wanted to confront the president. With knowledge knowledge that the spirits had not given up on the nation and anyone who opposed their vision for reform was destined to fail in May of eighteen in sixty nine coral was still thinking hard about that nation and she was seeing it with more and more distress after morning the violence of white supremacy in New Orleans. She came back to Washington with new words of rebuke. She spoke at a meeting of the Universal Peace Society and she wasn't gentle a government mints that has for nearly a century and slave the African race. She said that proscribes. The Chinese race proposes to exterminate the Indian race an persistently refuses to recognize the rights of one half of its citizens. Women cannot justly be called perfect if cora was thinking thinking more expansively than ever before about how the US government treated and control. Its people we can see why she had just married for a third time. Her new husband Samuel Taping was spiritualist a journalist and a soldier who had been deeply involved in uncovering the truth of a brutal mass murder of the Cheyenne and Arapahoe people in Colorado known as the Sand Creek Massacre Samuel had investigated the killing for the federal government. He determined that the commanding officer of the Third Colorado volunteer a methodist minister nicknamed the fighting Parson had deliberately carried out the slaughter in cold blood as far as Nathan could tell. This was a minister who had hoped that. By killing enough of his indigenous neighbors. He could raise his public profile high enough to make a run at political medical office. Nathan's reports went back to the federal government and they went to the spiritualist press as well. His opinions resonated with Chorus Christians he wrote professing to be followers of the Prince of peace had instead attacked native nations with sword and cannon creeds and whisky ASCII Bibles and Boeing is then he wasn't just talking about one incident. Either in Samuels is if it wasn't the steel of Sabres and rifles threatening being the indigenous nations. It was the steel of the railroads. Cutting through the land monopoly. He wrote is fast turning this Western Garden of the world into a moral roll wilderness over the next few years his opinion would be published frequently by the banner of lights. His stature rose within the government at the same time ever since his work investigating and testifying about the Sand Creek Massacre Samuel had served on the Indian Peace Commission in that role he helped negotiate. Ta Treaties with the Plains nations. After that he joined a separate commission one tasked with making sure the United States government followed those treaties. He had little success though which only made him more angry. When Samuel Taping married Cora she was reporting messages from native spirit guides like Weena together? The couple joined their voices to shape spiritualist opinions about the ongoing seizure of native land across the West. In fact some say on circles even reported messages from from Cheyenne and Arapaho leaders who had died at Sand Creek. Here's historian and Brody. spiritualists are always reformers and they are very active in Indian rights reform movements. They are extremely critical of massacres occurs of Indians they protest against them Samuel Tappan in particular who is an Indian rights reformer with leading spiritualists speakers like Cora regularly giving addresses on Indian rights and government officials Samuel tape in publishing in the spiritualists newspapers. APOR spiritualists continued to find themselves. Criticizing violence that was widely accepted in white communities across the nation spiritualists. Louis are in an odd position in my view where they are espousing Indian rights but they are also so perpetrating stereotypes that place Indians in the past in a romantic past where Indians these are appropriately living in the spirit world and providing support for spirit mediums rather than exercising offering offering t in the present but if the early seances portrayed native spirits as guides and healers for white spiritualists. What's the tone changed? As reports of more violence reached say on circles in the east when murdered leaders arrived to speak at seance tables during the reports of genocide and dispossession possession of the eighteen sixties and seventies Indian blessings on spirituous were replaced by Indian curses curses on a nation who soldiers and citizens sends had murdered them but his other newspapers fell in line with the white supremacist. Rhetoric of writers who pushed the idea of manifest destiny. The banner of light continued to print criticisms of that message. It was their responsibility to heed the voices of the spirits. After all and report their messages to the reading public something was happening spiritualist who had viewed slavery as a sin that left a stain on the nation had begun to see America's westward advancement into the territory of native Americans as just more of the same their editorials called. US policy a fraud and a swindle at a time when few you other voices would as violence piled on violence Cora and the radical politicians who heated her spirits. Were sure that this was just one more way way that the nation needed to be knocked down and made new again. Take those stains away. They needed more than hope. The letters burned so bright that they lit up the whole room room. They were right there. Scrawled into the very surface of the table. Too many spirits had spoken through so many tables over the years to even count this marble. Surface looked like it was inscribed with fire. The word was a single Greek name Demosthenes. It glowed as a calling card for the stately figure dressed in a tunic solemn and graceful who stood before Victoria woodhall. She recognized him. Of course it was one. Ah The spirits who had appeared to her from time to time over the years and he'd always told her that she would rise to great distinction city of ships at last asked he had arrived to reveal his identity to her because the time had come for her to lead her people just as he had the ancient Athenians journey to New York. The spirit told her there was a house waiting for her there along with the future. He'd always promised at least. That's how Victoria told the story that marble marble table had been in a Pittsburgh apartments where Victoria had been stain. After years of traveling with James Blood she had even been to disease-stricken New Orleans arriving justice just as core left and shortly before Christmas in eighteen sixty six Victoria and James had published an advertisement for their powers of healing to the city's alien residents since they'd been to Memphis Tennessee which had also been plagued by white supremacists violence that year. Then they returned to Saint Louis before moving on to Chicago Go where the courts were more willing to hand out divorce papers than anywhere else in the mid West but now in eighteen sixty eight. Those trips were coming to an end. It was time for Victoria and James to build something. They weighed their options. Following the spirit of Demosthenes to New York was one but there was. There's another leading light. That they considered Victoria reached out to some friends. In high places she traveled to Galena Illinois and visited one of the officers who had commanded. He ended James Bloods troops during the war. Since then Victoria and James had spent time with that officers father in Cincinnati and become friends with his family and Victoria. I thought it would be nice if he took on James Blood as his personal secretary. Because you see that man was ulysses grant and he had just won the presidential election and he was headed to Washington. We can't blame him if he didn't want to bring blood with him to the White House. Though you see. His escapades with Victoria had already hit the papers. Where they were saying that the gallant colonel had abandoned his family and thrown away his money to travel the world with and I quote the witch of Washington Avenue when grant decided against taking James Blood with him? It settled the matter James Than Victoria. Set Out For New York instead but the choices that grant would make while in office would still prove crucial to lifting. Victoria's fortunes I though there were connections to be made in Manhattan. Here's author Mary. Gabriel when they arrived in New York you know they had no connections there and it was as you say. The entire Claflin clan followed and saw Victoria antennae. Got To work doing what they did best. They're only sure way of making money which was working spiritualists. Antennae was an expert of laying on of hands and Victoria was the spiritualist adviser and but Claflin did what he did which was go out and try to recruit clients. New York had plenty of possible subjects. Spiritualism was strong in the the city after all but it wasn't just spiritualism that interested Victoria. She didn't want to spend her days entertaining a line of tourists. She wanted to finally put her political vision vision into practice for that. She needed a patron a dedicated supporter with money. And there was one person whose name was floating around the city with the echoes of cash. Following after it Cornelius Vanderbilt. His is a name. Many of us have heard before his shipping empire had brought him mountains. Sins of cash. But in the years before Victoria arrived he had felt the sting of personal losses. His wife Sophia had recently died and he'd lost a fortune in in a battle with a fellow. Wall Street speculator over control of Western railroads. All of this was well known. But Victoria's father but Claflin and the rest has to the clan. That was settling in New York. Learn something else through their spiritualists network. Cornelius Vanderbilt was willing to hear from the spirits. Spiritualism may have come into Vanderbilt's life through his daughter who had been a believer for years by eighteen sixty four cornelius was trying to contact the spirit of his dead father through New York City mediums by eighteen sixty eight. He was feeling old himself and had already been turning to magnetized and spiritualist healers for relief from his aches and pains so when Victoria and her sister Tammy arrived in New York. The wealthy industrialist found comfort in a young woman whose mode healing was the laying on of hands soon. The sisters were spending a lot of time with Cornelius. The often invited tenny to his office and called her. His little little sparrow while she joked with them read to him and laid on hands in Victoria. He got a personal medium then as their conversations multiplied lied he found in her an unusual and inspiring energy and intelligence he also started to hear investment advice from the spirits and he would give its intern along with hefty fees for their services. Here's more from Mary. Gabriel and so became confidence of Cornelius Vanderbilt. One of the most important and wealthiest man in America. And you know it's one of these incredible American stories that you know. They went literally overnight from being no one in New York to being with in the circle. Where all the powerful decisions are made? Demosthenes hadn't steered her wrong. And neither had cornelius. James Blood took the money Victoria made from Vanderbilt and invested it. According to his advice and as those investments blossomed James News and Victoria put their heads together to decide how they could put this growing fortune to use the spirits. It seems weren't just ghostly visitors from another world world they also knew. Just what made this world go round Trouble was brewing in eighteen. Sixty eight the banner of light published a report from the Third Annual Convention of the Illinois State Spiritual Association with a foreboding warning. They said that there was an a quote. Lack of harmony among spiritualists for a movement built on the foundation of Andrew. Jackson Davis Hormonal Philosophy. This was a dangerous thing to hear. Every seance required harmony among the participants in order order for the spirits to be heard and if they hope to keep growing into an enduring cultural force they would need that harmony. The reformers might have seemed seem to win the day and motivate the victorious army through four long years of war. They might even have been able to claim legions of new converts as the Widows and mourning. Earning mothers found their way to the sand table but their new world had not yet clicked into place in fact cities all across the country were still filled with conflict And that included the capital but with President Grant and office. There were some among the reformers who saw a clearer path into the future in eighteen. Sixty nine sojourner truth was headed back to Washington. DC To be present for the ratification of the fifteenth amendment. Finally ensuring that black men had the right to vote to cross across the entire nation on the way there. She stopped in New York City where she stayed with friends. Including a visit to Leeann underhill's thirty Seventh Street Brownstone and although she had retreated from the public stage Lia had lost no stature among spiritualists and would still give private sittings too friendly visitors especially when have visitor was sojourner truth she also stayed with Theodore Tilton the editor of a powerful liberal religious newspaper Tilton was well known for printing nineteen the power of God and the rhetoric of reform. He was a natural friend to sojourner but he and his wife Elizabeth were going to become very familiar with Victoria. Woodhall in the coming coming years. Also while in the city sojourner spoke at one of the most popular pulpits in the Nation Plymouth Church where the preacher Henry Ward beecher feature held court. The sojourner wasn't the only one on the road to Washington that year in January the city played host to the first national female suffrage Fridge Convention with money in her pockets and determination to join the cause Victoria. Woodhull was one of the many to arrive. There is hope in the air. You're with the war. One and grant elected surely it was time for every reformer who had served in the cause of abolition to now turn their interest toward the cause of women organizers. who expected it to be that easy? Though were deeply disappointed. Some leaders like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Susan B Anthony wanted wanted to push for a sixteen th amendment that would give women the right to vote but others thought a more gradual approach that pushed for suffrage state by state was the only way to achieve if that goal and this difference in approach led to some ferocious arguments it seems that advocates for women's rights. Were no more united than the spiritualists were and no no surprise. They were often one and the same Victoria made her way back to New York thoroughly unimpressed to her. The battles between the reformers were what she called teacup. Hurricanes women needed to gain real ground and fast so she decided that at the first opportunity she would lead by example an and opportunity that swiftly came banks to Cornelius Vanderbilt and ulysses s grant. Here's more from Mary. Gabriel two of the biggest. You traders on Wall Street Jim FISK and and Jay. Gould knew that every week grant sold a lot of gold on the market to try to keep kind of keep the coffers Unisys discovers government coffers full and it was a weekly sort of release of precious metals to enrich the government few an acquaintance. They decided decided to try to convince grant not to sell. And so that would drive up the price of gold and it would become even more precious than it normally was well that happened but then grant learn of the scheme and so in a counter move. He opened the flood again and the gold started pouring out onto the market random bill bill had been privy to all of this and so he told tenny in Victoria. This was going to happen and so on the day. This black Friday and eight hundred sixty nine occurred Victoria was. They're buying hangup gold dropping in price dropping like a stone and in that day. She amassed a sizable fortune by the end of the day. Victoria antennae had made a stunning seven hundred thousand dollars in profit. Their names were splashed across the pages Queens of finance. It's Vanderbilt's proteges. With their new fortune as balanced Victoria antennae through open the doors of Woodhall Claflin and Co the first woman owned brokerage brokerage in the city Victoria would later rights. We had been instructed by the spirits in the administration of public affairs now. It was time to to apply that knowledge though then when it came to striking a claim for the place of women in society she said there could have been nothing else in legitimate business that would attract the comments of the the press more than the establishment of banking house by two women. Victoria woodhull had begun the year as the witch of Washington Avenue. Now now she was something more. She was the witch of Wall Street. Gold was good by. Victoria's vision for the future wasn't the only way the spirits were putting flash lashawn the bones of the movement in eighteen seventy Emma hardin would put spiritualism on paper with a landmark history. She called Modern American spiritualism a twenty years record of the communion between Earth and the world of the spirits. It was a sweeping history that collected stories from across spirituous networks. Newspapers papers telling local stories at hit the public from the moments I days but this was a project with much larger ambitions. Here's historian Kathy Gutierrez. Emma started off with doing translators and she was very erudite and very articulate. Let and she over time became what I consider to be probably still the most important historian spiritualism and she wrote this massive passive compendium using primary sources which how she collected all in the nineteenth century. I have no idea and put it together. In and went. SERTA created a coherent narrative of spiritualism. She laid out a picture of the movement from its first steps to its full strength. I think it was a play for legitimacy but it was also a play for authority. If Emma's book was a landmark driving home the history of spiritualism for scholars the year it was published was also a landmark in Emma's life. She married a man whose name might sound familiar from the years before the Civil War William Britain. He was the spiritualist whose kindness had made him stand out from the crowd when he helped Cora to escape the clutches of Benjamin Hatch and it was as Emma harding Britain that the English pianist turned trance. Medium turned religious. Historian would go down in the record books. But she wasn't the only one making a bid to put themselves elves in the author's chair when it came to the story of spiritualism in the books of one Boston writer who wanted palpable proof of immortality. The question of testing the spirits took on more weight sometimes quite literally in fact when it came to the evolution of spiritualism the eighteen seventies were the decade of materialization nation. More and more seances weren't just filled with tapping sounds turning tables and flickering lights instead. Mediums were bringing something more into being physical objects called a ports. Were arriving in the room. And then the ghostly hands that had so often been invisible to previous sitters began to take on material form but if a hand why not more. Here's Emily Clark once again you'd find these descriptions from from people who are out of materialization seance and they might notice by their feet. What looks like a small white handkerchief has appeared and very slow Lee? The handkerchief grows and it turns into something bigger and bigger and bigger. And the next thing you know the spirit of your deceased wife has materialized right next to you and then she hugs zero or she kisses year. She grabs you can feel her material body. It was spiritualism second wave and it up up ended. What people expected to see when they went to a seance? Here's historian John Butcher. I think about that as part out of this notion that the process was going on in this new era was the elevation of earth to have Amadora down on heaven to her tapping sounds could be misinterpreted. Trans lectures could be explained away but when a medium conjured gauzy object into the room. That could be seen. That could be felt. Well what could explain away something. So tangible in eighteen seventy two. The reformer Robert. Dale Owen published a book on spiritualism that hit the shelves just as new waves of materialization. seances were putting the movement back into the headlines was published by a big non spiritualist publishing house to and it was a smash hit. That's because Robert wasn't just some unknown. He was the son of the Scottish. Reformer whose Utopian towns had inspired so many spiritualist communities in the eighteen forties and he'd spent the eighteen sixties in Washington in DC where he had served on the commission for establishing government aid to the newly free black Americans. Working alongside Nathan Daniels. He helped lay the foundation. Nations for the Freedman's bureau. That would oversee efforts like sojourner truth's work on the Friedman Hospital in his new book though he was stepping deeper into the world of spiritualism by publishing fascinating stories about his experiences with a medium who had been off limits to the public for years in fact. He participated participated in private dramatic sittings with her right inside her fancy New York home and the mediums name the oldest Fox. Sister Sir Leah underhill. They answered the questions on his mind in the very first say on Robert remembered seeing lights that floated around the room as they did though they also slowly league grew larger and at the same time they took on the distinct shape of hands. One of those hand shaped lights he later explained grew as large as a human ahead before it lowered itself to the floor and began to pound out those infamous knocking sounds that had become so commonplace in the movement. Finally that which which had been invisible and now revealed to his is a smaller more intimate. Say on the following summer Robert had an even closer encounter are they had retreated to Leah's bedroom. For the seance Robert Leah her husband Daniel and one other close friend. Everyone took a seat around a small intimate rectangular table and knocking started almost immediately so they turned on the lights and started to sing again. A light appeared eared. Roberts said it took the form of a small hand but covered with shimmering veil. You watched it approach him and then felt a light touch like fingers on on his shoulder when he asks the spirit to move to the door and knock on it. The light wandered off knocked and caused in response a lapdog outside in the hall hall to start barking at the sound. The light return and brushed owens hand and then caressed his head. He later wrote that. It felt as if a soft and fine piece of gauze press gently against the back of my head and neck. Not once however did Robert detect the footfalls or Russell of clothing. That might would have been caused by a body moving around the room. No one in the small group before ever moved or let go of each other's hand around the table and Robert was convinced the spirits bringing heaven to earth one material body at a time. They were literally reaching out to be touched publishing. This story made Robert Dale Owen. The Darling of the spiritualist world so much. So in fact that he decided to lean in he wanted evidence of eternal life life. That was irrefutable so when he heard that a spirit whose whole body had materialized in a Philadelphia seance had asked for him by name. Well he couldn't refuse the seances were enchanting. He sat with two mediums. A husband and wife for a series of meetings with the spirits as has they lowered the lights and went into their trance. The Promise Specter would appear. She seemed to grow out of nothing like the spectral hands. She would start out as a faint light loading through space until it took form and strode into his presence the spirit called Herself Katie King and gave Robert Everything he it was hoping for. She audibly spoke with him calling him father Owen and then kissed him over the course of their meetings they even traded gifts. He would eventually really possessed a lock of her hair. He cut from her head pieces of fabric cut from her dress and veil a bouquet of flowers and small tortoiseshell box owen rush to write a report to the encounters. The mediums never moved. He said there was no chance that one of them was impersonating the spirits of Katie King. While ah she was manifest in the room he explored its corners and the spirit cabinet from which she had emerged and determined that everything was as it seemed with his book flying into hands around the country. The Atlantic magazine agreed to publish his account. He sent it to the editors under the title touching spiritual visit since. It's from a higher life but that's when things went south before his article could be published. Robert had a shocking revelation. A young woman went public. Look with confession that she was the person who had been Katie King in that darkened room. He had given her gifts. During the seance eventually Owen met with her in the light of day and she gave those gifts back. She was in fact an actor who conspired with the mediums to trick their visitors. Robert even had some help digging up the evidence evidence of the fraud his agent and pulling together the facts of the case was none other than Henry. Steel Alcott's the man who helps solve Lincoln's murder alcott question. How reliable the woman actually was because plenty about her story? Didn't add up. Even so confession was devastating. Roberts article was eventually published alongside. It was a note that made it clear that it was all humbug and it turned Owen and Spiritualism by association Asian into a laughing-stock too many spiritualists though the events only served as evidence that materialization were fraudulent. They remain convinced that it was the result of the Predator is taking on what was good and true about spiritualism and exploiting it for their personal gain. BANGS didn't end well for Robert. Dale Owen unafraid in the aftermath of the ordeal. His own family demanded that he turned away from the beliefs that had led to such public humiliation but he refused leaving them with the difficult choice of having him declared insane when his children were through with him his life was effectively over they had in placed against his will in an asylum. Her Gallery opened in the heart of London. That might not sound an unusual at first after all. It was full of bright pieces of artwork. Watercolors acrylics pencils all of which are familiar mediums. But there there's another layer to the display. All one hundred and fifty five works were created by the woman who had opened the gallery a middle aged spinster named Georgina Houghton and in the previous decades of spiritualism in London Mo- Spirit communication was the kind we know there was plenty of table tapping table tilting gene trans lectures and spirit writing. But every one of these modes had become old hat now though mediums and their followers were looking for new manifestations of spirit power and Georgina gave it to them her wild swirls of color she said where the physical representations of spirits through her the invisible world took on vibrant form. Georgina didn't start out as a public medium. Though when the British press was still calling hauling out mediums as frauds for the simplest table wrappings. She had gone with her cousin to a seance so that she could judge for herself. If any of it was true at the first say on one one spirit singled her out claiming to be her dead sister. Zillah the things that said apparently shot Georgina into belief. Soon after she we started to read spiritualist books. She talked with her mother about the possibility of eternal life and spirit communication and together. They started their own seances at home. One historian called Georgina. Sincere and reverend. She seems to have held her seances. In an attitude of quiet prayer by the CIRQUE harmonic Ramonic- in New Orleans. Her seances were private. Devotional and deeply felt this was far from the stagey. showmanship of townhall demonstrations or or the red carpet rolled out that the entrance of Claflin Hospital House. After one seance held at Pentecost. Georgina wrote that. The experience of spirit contact with simply canoe. Outpouring of God's spirit rather than being a means of raking in cash her spiritualist practice almost became a ruin as has the spirits became her muse rather than just receive messages through taps on the table she began to paint and soon the spectral hands of masters like Titian and Correggio were guiding her once she even claimed to fall under the control of Joseph. The husband of the Virgin Mary with him she said the colors were laid on with much which more strength when other started to see her. She got some of the same unwanted attention that hit Robert Dale Owen. There were whispers that she was mentally to lead disturbed. The weird shapes filled her paintings were unsettling to some. They wanted to get her medical attention. Fortunately for Georgina she avoided. Owens joins fate that eighteen seventy one exhibition in London was put on at your own expense. Her ambition was to make spirit drawings more popular to spread her work as an example for others to follow by that measure. It was a complete failure but there were few newspaper reviews that urged people to go and see her work and to be astonished. But there was also plenty of contempt to you and even horror at the hallucinations that she produced and while many visited almost none came to buy before it was over she was nearly bankrupt and seeing the lengths that she went to to advertise the exhibition to Victorian High Society. It's no wonder she created an elaborate catalogue and distributed to notable names. What's more she even created a special edition for Queen Victoria? Korea made a pink satin white calf skin and gold g distributed all kinds of advertisements and hired an army to help her with the exhibition. Heavy was the loss she later wrote. But never for one moment have I experienced shadow of regret for having undertaken. It's I threw myself and my substance since heart and soul into God's treasury and not one fraction what I wished to withdraw. There was one bright spot. Though all that advertising tasing spread that even reached America and caught the attention of a few dignitaries from the spiritualist realm perhaps none more significant than the woman who had helped give birth to the very movement. Georgiana painting celebrated Leah Fox. Underhill Leah arrived in London just before the exhibition began in fact it was her very first. Stop in the city as she and her husband Daniel Strode into the gallery. Daniel Found Georgina and told her motioning toward his wife. There goes the first medium in the world. Georgina leader wrote that. The two women spoke although she didn't record what it is they discussed as other American waken streamed in. They told her that. News of her new manifestations had been printed as far away as California. The exhibition might have been a financial failure here but it brought a wave of spiritual seekers to England from the troubled United States and it was just one of the many attractions that would make the trip across the Atlantic so popular peeler in the coming years after all if spiritualism truly was for everyone then there was no chance it was going to stay put. That's it for this week's episode of on obscured stick around after this short sponsor break for a preview of. What's in store were for next week? This episode was made possible by hellofresh. hellofresh is America's number one meal Kit Delivery Service. That shops plans and delivers your favorite favorite meals. So you can just cook eats and enjoy. hellofresh makes cooking delicious meals at home a reality regardless of your comfort in the kitchen from step by step recipes to premeasured ingredients ingredients. You'll have everything that you need to get a wow worthy dinner on the table in just about thirty minutes. There's something for everyone to from family recipes to Calorie Smart and Vegetarian and fund menu series like Hall of fame and Craft Burgers. And you can even add extra meals to your weekly order as well as delicious sides like garlic bread and cookie dough and those meals are absolutely delicious. US My pick this week. Is The crispy Parmesan chicken with garlic herb couscous and lemony roasted carrots. It was delicious and so easy to make for eighty dollars off your first month of hellofresh. Hello fresh go to hellofresh dot com slash unobserved cured eight zero and enter the Promo Code and obscured eight zero. That's hellofresh dot com slash UN obscured eight zero offer code on obscured eight zero next time on on obscured once the spirit of a woman arrived. At a seance and simply said that she was one who suffered the explanation of suffering could have been printed by Victoria woodhull this nameless. This woman was born to a wealthy family. She told the circle but she married a Predator. He scooped up her inheritance and then abandoned her in the years that followed she had supported herself through sex work but found no one to help her until she crossed into Neth now. She said she was comforted by Mary. Magdalene in New Orleans. At the seance table able of men her radical message came across clearly a society that would judge and punish women for surviving abuse was unjust. A A society in harmony however would look like something new not a hierarchy but a circle where the poor were lifted up and men and women joined hands to to seek out the wisdom of the past and map out the future and it was a future on re and the others were still willing to fight for On obscured was created by me. Aaron Minke and produced by Matt. Frederick Frederick Alex Williams and Josh Sane in partnership with iheartradio research and writing for the season is all the work of my right hand. Man Karl Nellis and the brilliant Chad add lawson composed the brand new soundtrack learn more about our contributing historians source material and links to our other shows over at history on obscured dot COM com. And until next time thanks for listening obscured production of iheartradio Aaron McKie for more podcast iheartradio posed by heart radio APP apple podcasts. And wherever you listen to your favorite shows

New York City Cora Victoria Washington Victoria New Orleans Cornelius Vanderbilt United States Nathan Daniels America Robert Robert Dale Owen President Andrew Johnson Georgina Houghton Victoria woodhull Gabriel James Blood Victoria editor Emily Clark