17 Episode results for "Alex Garland"

Go the Social Distance

Keep It!

1:08:13 hr | 7 months ago

Go the Social Distance

"And we're back all new quarantine addition of keep it Iron Madison Third. I'm Louis Virus Verdel Osman Patching in from home. Just so you all know. We did brave coming into crooked media to record this podcast except for Ada. 'cause she sick so she's saying. Louis are also very safe distance from each other. But we do that every week. Elway sit that firefighters apart. This is how I protect myself. You understand No feet from each other in the big studio with crooked. It's always shocking. How far away you are from the people. You're allegedly having a close conversation with while you're here so anyway if the dynamic is off blame it on that its because Tommy John and John. Hate each other not. We can't just say that on air while we can pick that up in their voices in the podcast. That's true. We sure John Lovett drives the Wedgwood. Those pants have his. No we are here. You know Surviving doing things What have you been up to this past week? Well I am getting used to the fact that I am definitely one hundred percent and extrovert like as I sit here talking to you. I realized how much of myself I am not while I am sitting in captivity The amount of instagram lives. I've been doing. Yeah have revealed. No exactly we all are suddenly Clarisa to explain the whole situation to everybody constantly. Hey ask three questions. Why sure sure a lot of my a lot of my personality has been received like prof performing in any way and even if that means conversationally and now that. I don't have anyone to do that with. I don't know who I am right now. I feel the same way. I'm regaining my identity as I sit here and speak because there are times when you realize oh I haven't heard myself talk in eight hours. Oh now it's ten hours you know I value my last few potentially starbucks interactions for that reason. Like oh I I heard myself say coffee. So you're still going to starbucks. I go at hours when I think nobody else will be there. And it's actually worked out for me. Okay good good am. I had starbuck's later today. Well what I've been doing i. I'm still watching. Alex Garland movies are her annihilation. Blew my mind. An operation is great. Yeah but I didn't even mean too. I think I was just on the flow of watching one word movies assault with a. I watched adaptation amazing And I was like these are weirdly related and it's very much so about this kind like biological evolution. It there were there were linked on accident but I wonder how much Alex Garland was a fan of Charlie Kaufman or something like that but yeah so I'm just I'm just trying to watch movies and catch up. I know who Tim Roth is now. I'm learning a lot. A Lot and education starring a one hundred percent. I I actually did not love that movie. Well first of all controversially from a gay perspective. I'm not a Natalie Portman stand. She doesn't pick projects that are particularly interesting to me. That's just the life I live. Where is the taste? I know also constitutionally. I am a fan of Jennifer Jason. Leigh and I find her bad in that movie She's so dry in that movie and I know those characters affect but it really didn't feel correct. Yes he didn't feel like the right choice. I would say that about Gina Rodriguez and also sent me. Tessa Thompson to like the characters just felt not fully formed but other like the story line. The plot was really good where it goes twisted and warped enough but I had a friend who told me in the middle of last year that Gina Rodriguez would be nominated for an Oscar for that. I apparently have demented friends. Because she's in it for what like thirteen minutes altogether talking about? Yeah that was insane at the time. Yeah and insane. In retrospect no we knew it. I knew how I would count it on your imagine that Oscar speech hit it hit it. What have you been consuming this week? Lewis well first of all. I find myself strangely. Having a lot of faith in what Amazon prime just throws at me. I'm surprised to be so submissive to Amazon prime. They throw things at me and I watched algorithm is I. I don't get it. Yeah yeah because it'll be like watch this. It doesn't even have the same level of Netflix where it seems to have. Qripoli known what? I'm into your Amazon prime. It's just like here's a movie from Nineteen eighty-four that is on our database right. Exactly maybe the shock value of it is supposed to woo. But for example one movie they threw at me was the last waltz which is a documentary and music documentary about the band. The band when they broke up ceremoniously in nineteen seventy six and they put on one last concert where all of their friends showed up in their friends are Bob Dylan Joni Mitchell and Mavis staples and legend legend. Let Neil young and it's maybe the most legendary music documentary of all time. Favorite documentary about the band is making the band's into Oh yes the same now. Nothing about this movie is something I would want to watch. There is no female protagonists. I mean th the biggest female star is Joni Mitchell and she has one song from. I'll say it her most off the rails well not most off the rails album just an album. I don't listen to but the one with the breakfast cover. That album is right after this one. Yeah but it was edifying no watching. I wouldn't have watched it under any other circumstances really and that I hope is a blueprint for how I handle. The rest of this quarantine is all right. Watch things you wouldn't have had time for otherwise and there are a couple of other things I've watched. I watched this movie. Farewell my lovely. Which is a Raymond Chandler? Detective adaptation from the Mid Seventies. That is note for note. Exactly what you expected to be. With a supporting performance from a battled woman that got nominated for a supporting actress. Oscar Sylvia Miles. I miss when we nominated more. People like that. Like disheveled women who talk about their drunken heyday. I need more roles like that. Helen Hayes in airport. Look these things up. And then I watched ladybird. I think it's important to rewatch things to validate your mind. The things you love. I want to watch that again. I definitely wouldn't want someone again. So speaking of Sylvia Miles you know. I watched she-devil weights. Oh my God we're connected on Sylvia Miles I've I've watched she devil and death becomes her for the first time this week to finally educate myself and to solve this debate of which Meryl Movie Is Better. These are both males daffy comedies that she did the late eighties and early nineties which were strictly. I remember she remember which I guess is just connected because of the timeframe yeah because they have really nothing in common with one another. No one is a very kind of conventional romp and then death becomes her as this twisted pseudo inspection of our vanity etc it's Robertson Meccas doing white Dr sure yes. It is grotesque nece lush. It's soap operatic as well Borrow a lot from the John Laura and just religious sort of has a sort of verve and like ambiance to it which is fun. She'd have on the other hand is abysmal. Yeah do you think Meryl is good in it? I think Merrill was good at it but I think she's veteran death. Become I disagree. I think Merrill is more okay here. Here's the deal with the movie. She Devil. It has no jokes in by the way. Oh yeah almost at becomes her has like five memorable lines. I disagree with because I was roughing at everyone in it. She Devil really has no jokes in it. It's like no comedy writer was working on that script. It's just matter of fact lie. Well the weird thing about she-devil is that it's a movie starring Roseanne. Who of course was just beginning her Sitcom at the time and it's a role that seems written for her like she's this resentful downtrodden everyday suburban woman but she's also bad so it's the lead performances all wrong which sets that movie on the wrong trashy gives voice over and it's so monotonous and awful. Yeah right it's very strange But Merrill is playing such a broad comic role that by the way could have gone to any number of actresses of that time it could have been a Bette midler roll. It could have been a lily. Tomlin role whatever but she proves that when she wants to she dips into her like Marx brothers level. Broad comedy bag and can dominate on that level too. I just think it's a movie that's essential to understanding Meryl Streep and what was your first comedy role. It's from the director who desperately seeking Susan. Which is a shocker to me. Because that's an actual good movie really wronged by yes and I just think that after her first comedy role where she really goes for Gusta with it. I think that improves on it. In death becomes her. I think Goldie. Hawn gives her Moore and Bruce Willis give her more to play against then Ed Begley junior yen. She Devil who was generally great but it has nothing to do in this movie and also Roseanne and Meryl Streep for a poster that makes you think that they're versus each other over him. They never interact in the movie. That's that's another problem with Irish crying by the way Linda Hunt. This is getting very deep. Are you guys only watching? Movies is this. What's going on locked up? Have you been watching movies obsessively to I've been watching movies? I watched the end of the century last night to for the first time trying to consume. Tv shows but something about that feels like. It's unending. I need large things to consume right now. I just think the nature what I'm consuming is an interesting thing we talk about as well one. I watch a lot of TV. In general and I feel like it just so unending I mean I am currently watching twin peaks for the first time which only has two seasons. And then there's the return so that at least feels more finite sitting on and watch. Us seven season eight seasons show for me. Feels like we're never leaving. Our houses feels goofy and Joachim. Booster tweeted for us to watch the good wife and you guys had talked about in the last podcast. GonNa Start it but now that feels like a hopeless never. I don't know if I'M GONNA make it through. No I actually totally agree. I just want things to end. I mean it's nice to feel like you've accomplished something right. Gotten to the end of something if you go through this whole corentin process and only watch eight seasons of a TV show. Even once you do where Juliana Margulis smirking at you the whole time. I just feel like you feel under accomplished Exactly ad for me like twin peaks feels like it it. The two seasons like were very complete because it was so it feels like I can at least accomplish that and get my TV fix but also tap into this David Lynch part of history that has been a spot forever and obviously as a fan of soap operas. Twin peaks is excellent having want so many things quote unquote inspired by twin peaks. I feel like people only ever picked up on the Kookiness and the weirdness and when they replicate it at I have yet to really see something that like explores like the the humor that action or like soap. Melodrama sirk sort of vibe of twin peaks like no one goes for that. They always go for like. Here's premonition are here's like a character dancing weird. That's not the show right right. There's it's an asset more to it That reminds me. And we'll kind of get into this when we talk about Fiona Apple something. I love during this time. Just becoming obsessed with celebrity interviews and Piper. Laurie who is on that show in a very interesting role. I've just watched her interviews again and again and I like locking into a personality and hearing their perspective on anything so that to me is very comforting during a time like this just listening to somebody who knows what they're talking about and whose work you're a fan of so I will. We'll get we'll get more into that during the Fiona apple segment but Yeah she in particular. That's a smart suggestion. That is smart suggestion. I've gone down a bill hader whole 'cause. I'm so appreciative of between him and Fred Arniston and their ability to do impressions and funny voices and just be hysterical all the time you get into this having a friend when you watch other interviews. It's like doing a character study Europe. A person's studied but it's like hanging out with them. No I feel like interviews are my version of podcast listening. Like I don't do it as much as I show because I would rather just have one person. Yeah on Spool and talk and talk and talk about their lives all right. We're going to get through this episode as best as we can right. We have some voice. Memos says an from listeners. Who are going to tell us what they are watching during their quarantine so that should be fun. Hopefully we'll see how cute your responses are. I can't guarantee it will be because I don't know what you said. And then we're going to talk about everything in Hollywood closing during this corona virus outbreak. And we're also going to dig into Emily Nussbaum's profile of Fiona Apple which I found very intriguing. All right we'll be right back. Strong black legends returns for its second season marked second hosted by award winning podcast writer. Co Host of another round and former BUZZFEED CO worker of mine Tracy Clayton. She gives flowers to an entirely new set of black. Hollywood legends that have paved the way for us to see ourselves on and offscreen. Well not for you to see yourself Louis. Oh God we'll I'll do my best. The show is an extension of strong black lead from Netflix. Guests include Debbie Allen. Hell yes tae digs. Elliot's Omar APPs of course Bill Bellamy. Yes I watched every episode of cousin. Peter and Blair under each episode features icon of Black Hollywood and a journey through their work. Their philosophy on life and a bunch of laughs after each interview. There's a segment called Tracy's flowers where tracy honor a different aspects of black culture. It's fun it's funny and it's black as hell strong. Black legend is available now with new episodes released every Monday. Subscribe now on Apple. Podcasts spotify Stitcher podcasts. Or wherever else you listen to podcasts. You know what I love doing. Y'All saving up to seventy percent off of designer brands like Ted Baker Cole. Haan Sam Edelman own name. Oh you know where you can do that. Go to Nordstrom rack dot com to shop online or find a store near you and guess what you can save ten percents off your order fifty dollars or more using code. Keep it at checkout. New Styles are added every day. So you can always find something new at Nordstrom rack. I will just wander into a Nordstrom rack and find the longest legged jeans because I'm so used to finding genes that are just a tad too short for me as you know. I'm a Leggy said cherise dame and they always come through. I leave with five pairs every time. This is the kind of Promo you can't pay for. But they have graciously paid for Nordstrom Rack Dot Com and use Promo Code. Keep it at checkout. The surprise of no one corona virus came from movie theaters last week. Cinemas are entirely closed in thirty two or more markets overseas and partially closed in another fifteen territories theaters in New York and La closed by their mayors and since the CDC recommends no gatherings of more than fifty people more cities are expected to follow suit. Which means that. Margot Robbie is about to win for virtue. Pray do not Count Betty Gilpin in the hunt. Ray and the photograph Elisabeth Moss and invisible man the four performances. We had this year will be nominated. Yes yes and I feel like though admit animated movies in this year too so will Smith spies and maybe the Oscar should be four times a year just anyway to point out how ridiculous scheduling is. Yeah yes should be quarterly. I managed before horns seen happen to see the hunt. Actually still haven't seen how was that? Yeah I mean it's been out for only a few days so yeah I really think I mean I'll do it for Emma and I'll do it from visible man but universals out. They damn mind if they think. I'm spending money on the hunt. I'm really not good. I loved it. I thought that Betty Gilpin was great. Really gives sort of a visceral performance much much different from glow so Versatile actress now tell me what that movie is exactly about because I I sort of understand it okay. So these elites. I don't WanNa ruin the twists almost these elites get conservatives who they think are like racist homophobic conspiracy theorists and sort of gathered them up and drop them in a field and start hunting them got it let them get access to weapons and things and then it goes awry. Betty Dopson is one of those people. So we're in our own dystopia but if you want an escape to another dystopia go okay. If you're trying to layer up on the sadness right now and this is existential dread. It's actually just very funny. Thank God is it screw Bali or is it trying to give group holly the? There's some jokes that tried to give some political commentary that Sorta Fall Flat. I'd be I think if you pulled the politics out of the movie. It'd be better but I really enjoyed it. And the last half hour. The last the third act is just pure gay camp. Oh all right yes unexpected. Well it also sounds to me in the initial description of it sounds to me like a Shirley Jackson. Short story haunting. And there's a theme. You're you're saying the best of it is not that no yeah got. It also reminds me of the most dangerous game by Richard Connell Yes I mean that is that has been sort of a blueprint for so many people. Hunting people movies weird to have one now. But it gets it's appropriate now Oh No I think it feels on theme yes but I am excited to see at least the universal movies that are being released. I wish that they would be releasing like no time to die or Milan but I guess they really WanNa wait people back in theaters for that. I am sad to say that the first time this whole thing became quote unquote serious to me or like I might have to rearrange. My life in some way was when I learned that no time to die would be delayed months and months. I was like wait a minute. Somebody knows something. I don't and fast and furious nine a year. Something that's one hits right. Yeah yeah that's when I hit Lewis. I knew this bond movies coming out who? This must be serious. Brill's one of those things. Where if they do that. That must mean. Oh people won't be going outside or two places you know what I mean. So it's fair. Yeah but speaking of people not going outside or to places. We're the only ones under quarantine at the moment. It is also our listeners. Were practising the social distancing as it were starting to hate that phrase by the way. It's the only one of those things where it's definitely. GonNa be word of the year or whatever you know times word of the year the person of the year social distancing and I've seen every instance of a distance related. I guess we'll be bringing back the movie going. The distance. Soon one of Drew Barrymore's more underrated performances. Good thing or go stanton. Yep there's only like four things with distance in it that's one of them. We're breaking free. Thank you so much. That was the Arianna Song. I meant a reference breaking away the movie I but the fact that jumped out anyway. We invited our listeners. To Send US voice memos of what they were up to while they're stuck at home so we're going to listen to a few our first one is from Caleb. Hi this is Caleb calling from Nova Scotia. I'm currently self isolating actually watching six feet under for the first time since high school and I've got to say it's one of the best TV series that I've ever seen in my life. I really wish that I got the same attention that something like the wire the sopranos gets. Because I think it's truly one of HBO's Best Shows Start to finish like season one to season five. It's awesome so that is my recommendation. I'd love to hear what you guys think about the show. If you've seen it already take it away boys. I've never seen this. Have you not seen this all Yuda not at all okay? Well first of all Caleb. I know what you're talking about. Because people didn't watch the wire was on people. Watch the wire. In retrospect but I feel like six feet under got a slew of Golden Globes. Yes but I think what he's saying. Is You are likely to be pressured to watch the wire now whereas six feet under as sort of an urgent viewing doesn't happen as much as two soapy for some people also it's impact or its legacy is mostly the insanity and brilliance of its finale as opposed to what actually happens during the show and I think people only have a vague sense of what the show is like. They know we're at takes. He's let's what's it about well. So the Fisher. Family their patriarch. Their father runs a funeral home and he dies in a car crash in the opening of the pilot and the families that are has to gather together And deal with this crisis and basically the rest of the series is almost procedural esque in that each episode starts with a death fade to white. And then they're planning that funeral each episode. Okay so it's really just a family drama. That sort of like a little twisty at at a little in Little Shades of twin peaks. And now that I've seen it And it is told through the device of their running funeral home right correct should I in the other co it is one of the best. Tv shows and also it's such a good education and actors who go undiscussed like James Cromwell who we always talk about in the context of babe farmer Hog. It is excellent on six feet under that much I hold out and by the way it's Short. Which is what. I love and a best picture nominee. Picking in the city is better when people say that no. It's not. That movie is demented. Yeah it does what the other girls aren't doing. Its people wanting to congratulate themselves for making the movie that goes for something crazy and his half successful. It's just it's a movie. That's more interesting to discuss them. Watch if you ask me but moving Rachel Griffiths. Who's in this show? Who's also on brothers and sisters? She gave one of my favorite. Oscar nominated performances of the nineties. If you saw the movie hilary and Jackie which is about the cellist Jacqueline Dupre who died of MS Just a wonderful movie and she plays opposite Emily Watson. Who's just one of the great actors zoo whose luckily had a big moment on noble reason I would love to see a hilary and Jackie about Hillary Clinton visited by the ghost. Yeah I was going to. That's why I thought you were going when you when you say the names Hillary Jackie. It does feel like a loaded. It's dripping with first lady. Yes or no Jackie joyner-kersee and Hillary over the fresh prince of bel-air. Yea I wanna see that movie right. You get a lot of amazing fingernails in that movie. I think yes. The cuticle would be parked right. That's another one. This one is from Julie. Hi this is Julie from DC. The piece of culture. I've been most excited to consume. So far is definitely Harry styles. Tiny desk concert. It's only twenty minutes long but if you watch it several times you can kill a couple of hours IRA please. Don't tell me to keep it first of all first of all DC shout second of all. That was my keep it this week. She really done just sweeped in and took my keeping her first time on the podcast. Look we don't often let our listeners join end so they can have this. I'll figure it out in the next ten or twenty minutes on my indicate. I'm sure I can find something really mad about this. A Little Harry styles. No my keep it was it was. It was like a sarcastic. Keep it you know like it should be longer. I need it for Mental Health Blah Blah Blah. You know but I'm just really irritated. That she beat me to it but she's correct but Heine desk is something to watch over and over again however I don't think it's out to the public so maybe that's the keep it also. She only said for IRA not to tell her to keep but she said nothing about you so I think this is all. Why aren't you Harry Styles Fan? I'm I'm a stylist are that is that what they're called. They might be called styles. But I'm not in. I'm not in the know anymore. It could even be a hair stylist based on the word Harry. Let's see Harry styles on a remake of shampoo. No we shouldn't actually just silhouette wise. He does have a Warren Beatty. Hannah going on all right. See I say also a friend and I were recently talking about how he joined St Nick. Stage for that Cover of stop dragging my heart around. Which is one of the Great Stephen Solo? She thought he was in instinct. Which is there Stevie Nicks too busy hanging out in Sedona? Don't ask her about what Harry styles is up to anyway. Julie I love Harry Style so I'm not going to tell you to keep it. I watched it yet though. I generally speaking love tiny desk concert. I do watch Amy Manns. One Hundred Times Meghan statins Suze. Yeah Meg Anderson Anderson pox and Tyler. The Creator's my two favorite performances and t pain t pain will floor you if you've seen that tiny desk tallahassee pain t pain by the way when he's doing his he seem so shocked to be there and so grateful for the opportunity and then he sings and has everybody in the palm of his hand the whole time. It's a really. It's very notable. That's probably the most notable Tiny desk definitive concert which is not safe at the moment. You should be in the palm of anyone. That's right stale one hundred percent catch. Let's roll another one and this one coming up is from Madison listen. American idol is buyer this season. Katy Perry is awesome survivor. Also come on Boston. Rob Got voted off. Who couldn't watch winners at war? I am positive with saying that American idol is not fire this season. Well here's the deal with American idol. I think it could be fire. I washed it as recently as two seasons ago and just the fact is the thing that American idol is always trying to conquer. Is that the fervor over star being born. We've just experienced that now. Hundreds of times on various shows that's been the format of of all reality. Tv for so long we used to be waiting for a moment like yeah we get a moment like every other week right yes. That's the problem so marginal return is not high anymore now. I don't care now. I don't care at all also have to win to do well. He's had to be on it and we have to like you. Yeah but at this point like not enough. People are watching for you to do well. If you've been on it. There are so many artists. I feel like who I hear song unlike other really good. And someone's like Oh they were like on the voice of like really none of. That's not part of their narrative anymore for the general pub. It's easy to forget. Yeah Speaking of Katy Perry the guys. I don't hate the song never worn white down. I think it's dreadful and I love her. I Love Katy Perry but I just don't enjoy that song. I think the chorus is shockingly memorable for being so valium level. Drippy and slow. I think it wants to be an RB Song Sung by Katy Perry. This which is how I feel about Geneina bottle secretly rb song. That should have been some by Toni. Braxton even though I love Geneina bottle I haven't been Katy Perry Fan and while I have a hard time liking her music anymore. Oh I I liked the last saw A. You're talking about never really over. Yeah I like small talk to written by Charlie Poop. I mean Charlie does what he has to do. He recently released on Instagram. Quick cover of Mariah Carey where he his voice kind of goes there to the old school mariah place and I just want to say that. It sounds both good and terrifying. Why can he do that? It's not a comfortable. Listen for me because Charlie is the moment. He's not though people aren't really into him even though he is supremely talented. I'd love him. I would lick that blade in his eyebrow okay. Great really fast supersonic not not not currently during corona virus scare. Although honestly I would be Corentin with Charlie. No one asked. You're answering a problem that no one is posed. Okay well his meeting with Charlie Carly's hot. He's hot he really is. But he's that pop machine and he knows it too and he's vocal about it. That's I think that's why he lacks charisma to us. Oh you find him. A little overly cocky in the how he displays his talent Lewis. In what way I mean. We're both scathingly hot. That I understand of I would say that the way that he knows pop music inside and out is almost sort of like robotic way that you know like facts unlike cultural things because like he can tell you a certain songs cord or why a song was popular or like he just knows that information about music and then he turns it into his music. His music weirdly fields of less his music. Berkeley could energy. Yeah his music is good and great even but I would never described. His music overly emotional. Because it feels like is putting out code coming from the place of an algorithm you actually. Unfortunately I have to agree with everything you just said. He is the sense of somebody who knows what he's talking about knows pop music. Yeah I love him. Let's move right along. Did you guys notice that you mentioned Boston? Rob from survivor. Right Are you watching the Cedar Barbara this season? Now you're watching it this season. Yes it's excellent at if anybody is a week behind on survivor. I don't know why because you haven't had anywhere to go to Iran spoil it but this is a fantastic season and I've been really invigorated by Mat. Rogers is starting survivor for the first time and he just watched game changers on instagram spelled. J. A. Y. e. So people are getting a survivor. Still enjoy that. It is a show where you can pop in every three years or seven years. Whatever and usually it's worth it because it's a very consistent show more than any other reality show and someone that you've seen from a previous season. It's probably back for like a redemption all stars or something like that. I love it. The season delicious is Parv back. Yes yes now. Okay good and Sandra oh I love Sandra to Queens days the clean and this one is from Mica so my activity while social distancing is to watch all of the films in which Meryl Streep was nominated for four movies in. It's already dark. I'm only thirty minutes into out of Africa and it's not going well. This movie is two years long and I've been trying to encourage myself by saying hey defending your life is coming up next only to find out that she wasn't nominated for that so dark. I mean this person is speaking my national anthem right now. First of all we love that Silky Voice Mica. I will say about watching. Meryl Streep's nominated performances. If he's doing them sequentially he's hit a couple that are more boring than they should be namely the French. Lieutenant's woman in which she and Jeremy Irons play period roles and then modern roles with actors playing those roles. It's not that captivating a movie but so he's amazing. Unfortunately out of Africa I would say is the worst movie for which she is nominated for an Oscar. It is incredibly boring. This is shocking because at one. Best Picture in Nineteen eighty-five Here's Trivia that doesn't matter Klaus. Maria brand our who was nominated for exporting acquired. Lady up there I mean. The Iron Lady is at least bearable shorter but about cosmic brand are the only supporting nominee ever to be nominated for playing a dual role. He plays brothers in that movie. But anyway you are just waiting for an action scene. In that movie you're waiting for Merrill to interact with another Goddamn lion or whatever and you don't get it. I would actually argue that. I mean I really do not like bridges of Madison County and that is never ended. Its way too long by the way the kids in that movie. Her kids are the worst actors. Meryl Streep Movie. I am so sorry if you're listening to this but you a bad job. It's not my fault you know. What is a shocking one? I watched recently. I N. we'd she is amazing in that movie and so Jack Nicholson. There are only two movies. If I'm not mistaken. Where if you add up the Oscar wins of the lead to performers. You get six. Can you name the other one? Because Jack Nicholson and Meryl Streep Three. Plus Three equals six. Can you name the other is? Something's gotTa give great guests. The answer is another Jack. Nicholson Meryl Streep Movie. Which is Harper? Luckily Michael will be getting to Titian soon. Owen adaptation sleighs. Yes yeah and is a good movie and then I think if I were to do this I would go backwards. I JUST. I don't know if I can bear. I'll watch the best picture when you said out of Africa. Even though it sounds boring I wanna see into the woods as soon as possible so and the Devil Wears Prada. Watch music of our. That is a wacky movie with Meryl Streep from Wes Craven Correct and it has a Banger Song from it Gloria Estefan and in sync music of art which was nominated for an academy award. And also. I know you're laughing but all of this actually happened. Gloria estefan instinct. Wes CRAVEN MERYL STREEP ENJOY. Also of the heart. It's worth noting that some Meryl Streep is nominated for an Oscar for music of the heart. That role was originally for Madonna. Who dropped out due to quote UNQUOTE CREATIVE DIFFERENCES WITH WES? Craven if you can turn a Madonna Roll into an Oscar nominated role. What you deserve is the Nobel prize so congrats to Merrill for that last one from Catherine. Hey all this is Catherine Austin in terms of my culture consumption. This crazy time. I have two things to share one. So I'm in Austin Texas where queer eye is currently filming their new season and some of the boys are quarantined. Here in the building with me. So that's been a fun little you know reprieve and my dog is obsessed with. Jvm So you know trying to social distance myself there but it's hard on a number to the content that I am currently in love with is Nashville. I thought it would be very tacky and a little like to Dynasty Sarah but y'all Connie Britton's hair and it is incredible Hayden Pan. I don't know how to last name is surprisingly delightful. It's hitting all the notes it's trashy it's fabulous. It's actually like surprisingly decent music but Connie Britton's hair. That's what's GonNa get us through this time. Okay thanks much hope. Everyone says I'll be by woman sounded way too smart not to know how to pronounce. Panty air. But I'll allow yeah. I was so confused. Also why you busy. Dragon Dynasty Nashville has two good seasons so enjoy three through six. Look this woman said sorry to you and you still came for her. Like what can we do the be safe? Oh nothing she said sorry me. At Dynasty with thickest leaves. I also love how she was. She sort of confided in us that it's hard for her not to I guess. Attack the members of queer eye their lingering around her. I mean she should let her dog loose. Auto Corp. about ritually. Eddie David Aida. You don't even know talking about and hey look I'm not mentioning any names neither okay. Also it's notable about the show Nashville. That's the only other credit. I know of the actress Judith. Hogue who is April in the original teenage mutant Ninja Turtles movie and I constantly think about her because in that movie she was and she played the hard-bitten reporter. She was twenty two years old. It is very shocking All-girl Friday should be twenty two years old. Oh you think that should be a lot Yup Roz Russell constantly fifty-seven everything she ever anyway. I'm sorry for coming for you Nashville. Enjoy IT. It's a lovely for a bit until it isn't and Watch I thought she was about to say Robert Altman's Nashville to which by the way would have been crazy if she did. Because that means we have mentioned three of the four movies in which actresses were nominated for best supporting actress in nineteen seventy five which are farewell my lovely shampoo and Nashville only one other one. Which is Jacqueline? Suzanne's ONCE IS NOT ENOUGH. Which is terrible. We don't have to bring it up but now we have. Let's pretend we didn't when we're back into this ample interview. Has Anybody been read to fill by that message? That says you've been looking at your phone. Five hundred seventy five percent more than usual. Recently it feels constantly rude and by the way I knew that honey well screen time is the is the OPS is like literally the opposition the police. I don't care I hate the screen time reminder but we are straining our eyes so let's talk about Felix Greg glasses because feels great glasses filter out ninety percent of blue light in the most damaging range. The frames are hand finished from durable super lightweight. Italian acetate by PETO himself. Oh that's kind of him. Still up in working for him. Ninety five percent of Felix Gray buyers routinely wear them and report significant symptom relief available in prescription nonprescription and readers order online glasses ship directly to you with hard case and Lens cloth included Felix. Gray glasses are like sunscreen for your eyes. Try Them for thirty days risk free. If you're screens aren't easy on the eyes send them back for a full refund Felix Gray glasses dot com slash. Keep it for the absolute best quality blue light filtering glasses on the market. That's F. L. I. X. G. R. A. Y. GLASSES DOT com slash. Keep it do what we did and start taking care of your eyes feel better. Work Smarter Shipping and returns or totally free at Felix Gray Felix Gray Dot com slash. Keep it okay. Guys Pepsi has a question for us this week. Tell us about a time. When you blocked out the haters. Did your own thing anyway. Now I read. You are a hater. So how are you dealing with this? I personally just stayed home so I couldn't talk to me Powell. Brilliant see this is why we keep around me blocking up. The haters and doing my own thing is me bravely. Watching the Big Bang theory. There should be a farside. Drying not that that comic is around anymore about blocking out bill. Hader like he's nice and knocking on the door. Why don't want to block out bill hater? I Love Berry. I know you're right and I don't want this to ruin Darcy cartons. Good time our good friend. Yeah Well Anyway Pepsi. That's what I like. Sometimes you just not in the mood for beer. Don't speak for me. Obviously it's all. I drank well. Sometimes you just not in the mood for regular Seltzer but sometimes you need a seltzer. That will get you going. Well introducing the newest hard seltzer. Bud Light Seltzer. Capelle Bud Lights and let me tell you. It really gets me. Don't look at me ever let alone. Love Bone lighter. Hey Bud light you're gonNA love Bud. Light Seltzer Seltzer is easy to drink with hints of Natural Fruit Flavor What's your natural fruit flavor? Lewis me any fruit in fruit stripe gum and by that I mean it is a fruit flavor but it does last about ten seconds before you are so mad with Blanda God well. Luckily but light seltzer has better flavors like strawberry. Black Cherry Lemon line and Mongo go all the flavors. Get a flight of them. Why Pick I love that energy when they say mango do you think they mean the fruit or the Chris Catan character Hope it's Chris. Catan tasty he fits right in there. Can I bet on Monday morning? The New Yorker gave us a brief respite from the off consuming. Cove it in the form of a long form interview with Fiona Apple ahead of the release of her new album. Fetch the bolt cutters written by. Emily Nussbaum. The interview touched on her early success. The state of her mental health then and now the tolliver public relationships and featured a number of her closest friends. I found it extraordinary mechanical mechanical machine machinery anyway. That was an extraordinary machine joke about. Obviously we're going to talk about a lot of the people who are mentioned in the profile as well. You know from King Princess to Jeffrey Epstein's Woody Allen Thomas Anderson Louis C. K. but I What we think of the profile. I mean I love reading. I was just talking earlier about how there's something about letting one very well-spoken very individualistic person. Talk and talk celebrity. We all trust. Just go off and for that reason. I was super invested. I just find her fascinating anyway. Her career is so fascinating because for one thing. If looking at just the album she really has had a flawless run. I mean her. Music is distinct. It's singer-songwriter Lee Wall. So being blue Z. While also being confessional. She has a one of a kind voice. I've loved her ever since title. She's obviously had something of a renaissance recently because criminal was so prominently featured in the movie. Hustler's I love the song fast as you can impact quite quite so I just. I was so rooting for her. During that time when her record label wouldn't put out her album and then finally she got extraordinary machine out and people were fucking obsessed with that. Just what a cosmic poetic justice. That was so to hear from her now at a surprise moment when I didn't expect to hear from Fiona Apple is exactly why it feels so medicinal I find her so one of a kind and also hilarious. I love when people just by. The way are also hilarious. I think Lewis. You really covered everything that I really felt about this. I hadn't thought about Fiona Apple in so long so to hear she would of all people be the person to pop during a pandemic and we're beat the most warming and comforting force that I've expose myself to in a while everything. She does poetic. She's kind of just like a poetic person but but aware and kind of like a self aware and can joke about that but our lyrics I remember the first time as a kid when I heard shadow boxer and I was just not the same. I was not the same after that. I really Fiona Apple is one of the best artists of all time. I would fight anyone who says otherwise no. I really enjoy title but I didn't really discover Apple Until College When surprisingly it was like the black theatre kids at Loyola like. We're listening to extraordinary machine and I was. I knew criminal you know and I known shadow-boxer as well Like a couple of other songs from when the pond but that I was just like this is an album. Correct me if I have some memory of Kanye West saying he considered Fiona Apple one of his biggest influences. I think she's one of those people who we feel like hits the demo that you know all nineties chick music only hits which is to say me but I think her impact is way more far reaching than people give her credit for. Yeah Connie had said that Fiona Apple Sleep to dream from title was his favourite opening line to a song. Ever on the line. As I tell you how I feel but you don't care I say. Tell me the truth. But you don't dare you say love is a hell. You cannot bear and I say Gimme mine back and then go there for all. I care the lyrics. She's here I fucking love. Her and I was re. This obviously made me start re listening to some of the music and I was really listening to another song online. That's very underrated daredevil. For last album. And she's really just a sort of uses word already visceral songwriter. Who Sort of goes there with the content in the way that you want artists to you expect like novelists playwrights you know to to go to this level Stand up COMEDIANS. Which is so interesting that she had so much to say about Louis C. K. She had basically said that after all. Louise Scandal came out. You know About his sexual harassment of women comics etc. She thought that someone as smart as him would be able to be self reflective and sort of Really Mine the darker parts of his psyche to address how he had been abusive unfortunately She realized that Louis. Ck wasn't capable of more. Severe self scrutiny. And that he's useless as she says. I shake when I have to think read about myself. It's scary to go there but I go there. He is so weak. I love that because it's so I think tritter experience when you listen to her music at it does feel like an exercise of some kind like actually mining things that are uncomfortable in deliberately sell so young on the album title and I love the part. Where amy man talked about how it felt revelatory seeing someone so young talk about being raped just like in her lyrics and like how is profile draws a direct line to how Other women in music feel comfortable doing that. Now I think Tori Amos deserves credit for going there as well on their first album little earthquakes and by the way I just WanNa say also about Tory Amos. Another person like Fiona Apple. Watch EVERY INTERVIEW. They've ever done. Because you are introduced to somebody who is not like anybody else not trying to be quirky in any way and you slowly realize you could not have made this person up and they are brilliant and they are bizarre and for that reason you constantly are in August when they when they speak or when they perform. She had this great interview didn't Martinez and vulture. I think like twenty seventeen. Yeah even for me you know as all of us says people who care about comedy and kind of the art of it however you know narcissistic that may sound. I expected more from Louis. Ck's well and I. It opens up that conversation of redemption and where men can be redeemed. If they're willing to go and do the work like if they're willing to delve within themselves. Of course it only would be redemption to a certain degree but I think that everything that she said about him in. The work that he needed to be doing was entirely fair. Yeah I mean we've talked about it so much on the show. The idea of men like Louis C. K. Even for someone who's transgressions weren't as severe and prolific in numbers as an art. You know the fact that when they were confronted with their transgresses they just sort of were flipping about it and so much of their comedy. Was your actually the problem for carrying about this. It's stupid that I even have to address. This is just talking about the idea that for a real artist. Like if something truly painful happen to you you mind that for your art and if you've done something truly painful to someone else. I would assume you wouldn't mind that as well. It just also calls to mind how much conversations of cancer culture etc are smokescreens. How much they? They're not productive and they cloud the real traumas people have in the cloud. What is so disturbing about the the the facts of these transgressions? You know how how much we aren't discussing the things that could actually help us. Make US move forward. You talked about dixie chicks. We like that real cancelled right. Like of centrally cancelling three women for saying that Bush is a liar right right right and now who thinks of him in any other context you know what I mean? So but we have to talk about this quote. She threw down regarding Paul Thomas Anderson her former paramour and Quentin Tarantino. I think so for those of you. Who Don't know apple had a three year relationship with Paul Thomas Anderson and it's so weird to remember this now just because I only think a PTA in the context of my rid off right. I'm assuming that he is obviously a much different person. Now because I can't imagine Maya Rudolph putting up with that nonsense but Fiona Apple says that in their relationship. He was coldly critical and contemptuous and she described the fact that she and Anderson would recreationally use cocaine and ecstasy but a night that was excruciating where they hung out with Tarantino resulted in her quitting coke. Basically she was in Tarantino's house listening to him and PTA Brag in a private movie theater. She said every addicts or just get locked in private movie theater with Quentin Tarantino and PTA ON COKE. And they'll never want to do again. Truly the most vivid image I have ever heard this year. You can picture how fast they are speaking to each other probably right. I think things like Spaghetti Westerns. The Lips Moving. I can see wet sweaty tendrils of hair just moving over. I hate this image. I hate it I hate it. 'cause he truly talks like the roadrunner without the aid of drugs like at just like him on. Okay must be like get me out of here right. He's the copious celebrity. We have in. It might have nothing to do. Drexel I mean only because cokie Roberts has gone. Rip Right. Yeah she did have the mantle for a little while also. I'd be curious to find out what night this happened. Like what movie had they just released where they at in their journey their Hollywood journey that is putting them in a place where they can speak like this right and also you can just hear how ignored in the conversation? Apple must have been as those two people get cackled at each other about whatever the career of Pam grier whatever currently obsessed with Yanni Fellini Delaney. Yes right they broke up in the early two thousand so I would assume that it was like pre kill Bill Era Quinton. Yeah but definitely Jackie. Brown had had been out already so he was in the pot culture the moment unfortunately I do think we have to fill Madrid's Asian of this entire scene because I would watch it doesn't have to be long four minutes five minutes on your die. Get on it. That is going to be my Off Broadway debut. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA write. That night. Wouldn't go past you or Jeremy O'Hara's I'm sure see it happening right. He's probably already texting apple. Let me write it. Let me write it. Jeremy stopped acting. How did you get this number? I also love her talking about her contemporaries. Even people like King Princess. She's basically secluded in Venice beach. I mean she's already self isolating but she doesn't seem like out of touch with anything you know. She just seems like she is very aware of everything. That's happening in the world but like just choosing to live a tranquil moment. I forget sometimes how much I require. Celebrities to announce which other celebrities they hang out with to kind of confirm that they're cool like when Kristin Davis and Cynthia Nixon Post photos together. I'm like okay. They're really cool people they're still etc so when. I hear that celebrities still hang out. I I'm mindful of that and then thinking about who's left out like it seemed like Helena Bonham. Carter didn't really hang out with the rest of the ocean so these are things I worry about. The Wall at your home is just filled with all their photos and yarn. And you're trying to figure they all love Sarah Pauline. Yes if there's one last thing I mentioned in this interview to really interesting things one. I love the title fetch. The bolt cutters comes from the fall. That Gillian Anderson Really yes. It's Gillian Anderson says Early episode of the fall which is iconic. I love that series Irish Drama Jamie Dornan. I mean if you're looking to redeem Jamie Dornan after the fifty shades franchise you've gotta go see the fall. Well he's so hot in the fall because he has a beard and they make them shave it and were those ugly denim jeans all the time in fifty shades of grant is just so unsexy in it Also there is a depiction of fiestas relationship with her ex boyfriend in the profile which is so mesmerized saying to me just witnessing like her interacting with an x and the way that Emily Nussbaum sort of is able to pick up on why they loved each other but also why they are no longer together is Beautiful Radio I think I've finally need to get illionis bonds book. I like to watch. Oh yes I just love her in general she. I love to warm twitter presence. I love her writing a see her twitter presence. Maybe not what to read the book because I feel like she is so extra on twitter and I was like. I love your writing. And that's one person I was like just right. You're you're doing the most on twitter. I'm just always so surprised when somebody who is clearly brilliant likes twitter validating because the rest of us is. Just you know scrubs making our Timothy Challenge hosting. Yeah and just posting anything you know. Well not me. Oh that's right. You're still she's coming back. I have felt the urge to come back it. Now that I'm just like in my home. Nothing but unlike now. It's actually time when I should be fucking doing work so pointless for me to come back now when I have so much more free time. Yeah boomer ready will send for you. I'm proud of you when you leave secretly. Take bets out. We're GONNA secretly take bets out but otherwise I'm proud of you when you need me back on twitter just put up the IRA signal angrier. We're back keep it to. We are back with the keep it segment. Our favorite of the episode is used. All I you know what is your keep it this week. Pie Lewis first time caller longtime listener. This week goes to and this is hard because one of our Wiley callers decided to take my keep it today so I'm scrambling to find a new thing to be mad about but Luckily were in the end time. So I'm always on edge concerning the corona virus. I think my keep it goes to. You know what really had me uneasy. It's not the quarantining. And it's not the social distancing that I can get past. It's the new corona virus marketing advertisements. I'm seeing from large corporations that they're trying to appeal to us while our defenses are down and this was the first moment that life kind of felt like Orwellian like I was trapped in like a like anthem like I was trapped in an Enron book but Dominoes had a commercial. Were they literally open up? And there's a goes don't freak out because they know that we're all in a state of disarray. They can capitalize on their doing half off pizzas and free delivery. And you know doing what they would do as a corporation who is struggling right now but it feels so eerie. Our Word Domino's half heard it feels so achey and it may Mr Achey. I really want to order Dominos. Pizza but I'm by myself in an apartment so I'll have to eat it alone. Love Domino's okay. Well maybe this is for you. I listen to you I know New York Pizza is the best. Obviously I'm not dumb and Chicago. Pizza is lit too however domino's hits fucking spot. They are consistent. Yeah also I will say the promotions you get from any whatever catalog you've ever signed up for about how their stores are closing now and they and some company's CEO is writing you an e mail emotionally that ends with always something along the lines of were monitoring the situation closely girl. You're not in the lab. I don't tell me what's happening at the Pierre. One Petri dish station cooking in the lab. Go ahead keep it might keep. It is to something that unfortunately I will keep doing. But it is a keep it to working out at home. Have you ever sweat profusely in your own house? It sucks particularly. If it's your now jail that you live in and then later you have to smell it the entire time with and then treat it with more lysol wipes that you're already trying to conserve. I'll say this I'm somebody who routinely works out in a situation where La models scream at me to do work. I prefer feeling like I'm doing minimum wage work for people who won the genetic lottery. That's how I gain a better body. You know so what happens now? Is you download an APP. That helps you work at home and you do bodyweight push ups that Sarah off of Furniture. One that is just demoralizing. Anyway like the couch you were just writing whatever your your Oscar winning screenplay on you now are gyrating at like. It's nineteen eighty-one and Jane Fonda. Just taught you. You have hip flexor. It's so crazy to spend an hour manual exhausting yourself with nothing around you encouraging you nobody else working out no other equipment. You WanNa try just you and your own body being exhausted it is somehow humiliating to realize how hard you have to work on your own in order to get Tolerable workout and like. There's no other option every JIM is closed at rightfully so they should be closed. But I cannot stand having to sweat where I live. It is a gross feeling and if anybody has any other solution besides not that there is a solution. It just sucks it sucks. This is a sucky situation and this is among the most annoying parts of it for me. I have tried to work out at home to at is very stressful. Yeah I get it. And it's hard to keep going. Also floors are concrete. So that's not comfortable especially in like a smaller smallish department. I mean we're all in La. We don't have that much space like it's just. I don't want to be near my resting area while I'm not resting are actually have a lot of space and my home Ida. Okay so I'm coming to stay with you then okay not with you a dialogue of consulting over there so my keep it. This week is to carry health. Oh yes we all remember Keri Hilson Nemesis of the Beehive. One time Aren B. Singer and songwriter. Who wrote a lot of really good hits and then just sort of decided to say that she thought beyond trash and then just sort of derailed her career to be honest you should be able to speak freely and society but not about religious institutions. They say the behind. Don't be wrong yes. People need to know though by the way that once upon a time you could not avoid the song knock you down. It was on all the time. It was the only song that occurred for the latter. Half of two thousand nine. I swear to you. Carry Health said hot dog twitter recently to explain her conspiracy theory about how the proliferation of covert nineteen is linked to five. G. Wireless Technology I get it. People have been trying to warn us about five G. FOR YEARS Petitions Organization Studies. Where we're going through is the effects of radiation. Why do you think the viruses not happening in Africa like that? They don't have any technology whatsoever. Also okay I had thought Terrence Howard was the ceiling for crazy ideas and she just went and got on a trampoline and jumped into the splits over him. I was one so shocked that she had tweeted this. Because I distinctly remember that her facebook page seem to have been taken over just by Ads for years like her. Facebook page was always sharing like weird like fat diets or other spammy sort of add things. I was like I was like. She is no longer controller for social media but these tweets were wild and then she deleted them and wrote management has asked me to delete articles and videos. I appreciate good discourse on unconventional thinking. Let's just be safe out there. 'cause whatever the cause the virus is a real thing. Well I'm so glad they let her near a dial up modem to go and post that it's not five G. serving that we barely even have five GM US alluded. She get that idea. I mean I don't even want to know. There are plenty of places she could have gotten that idea carey hosts and for wars speaking of one other keep it to the introverts of social media Far be it for me to attack them but I am seeing far too many people with obviously everyone stay home etc. You know We came in record this podcast safely but like you should not be out congregating with tons of people. Yes still being at bars and restaurants like if they happen to be open where you are but there's some people who are having this sort of Giddy smug self satisfaction of enjoying staying at home and being like it's not that hard to stay home do this etc etc and I'm largely seeing it from people who never leave their fucking home in the first place. I time line so it was like of course you were having a great time in self quarantined you're basically self quarantine you don't leave home precisely. Yeah I have no social life. I struggled to do this new life so I mean first of all. Don't make fun of me cry. Yeah I'm someone who tends to stay home and I still think you're right. That's very indignant. It's bullshit to be just recognized the the introvert privilege you have. There are a lot of people who are part of cancelling plans twitter extolling the virtues of staying at home. It's like yeah we know you're always home and by the way they're always spelling canceling with twelve guys. Wake up it's one anyway. It's hard to stay home. I want to be free. I'm a dancer. A dancer dances. I'M NOT GONNA investigate that common or what you could possibly mean by it but I will believe you know I know anyway. That's our show. What looks ten jokes three. That's ten you get that laware's nicest thing you've ever said to me right. Think of the latter half of what I said. That was focused on that note. I didn't hear anything else. Didn't hear anything else of one episode. This was I hope that something changes soon. Because what else are we gonNA be talking about next week? I know? Thank you guys for bearing with us to. We're super excited to get voice. Memos from you and hear what you're talking about. I hope we revisit that next week. Though I mean we probably will. We ain't going nowhere. You're not going anywhere. We'll see you next week heap. It is a product of triggered media. Reston is our producer. It's Carolina like the princess. The one you don't care about our editor is Bill Lance and Kyle. Seguin is our sound engineer. Thanks TO OUR DIGITAL TEAM. Elisa Khan and not a name accounted for filming and editing video content every week.

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Spoiler Discussion: The Ending of 'Devs'

/Film Daily

35:02 min | 6 months ago

Spoiler Discussion: The Ending of 'Devs'

"Hello and welcome to slash on daily for Monday April Twentieth. Twenty twenty on today's episode. We're GONNA discuss the ending of devs the show on who it's the fx blue. Whatever that means this is slash home editor-in-chief Peter Surata and joining me on his podcast is slash foam writer Chris Evangelista. Hello folks thanks for Chris. Because you are the only person on slash phone staff that has seen the show other than me. So I'm excited to talk to you about it but I. We should give a spoiler warnings. So if you haven't seen devs actually you know. Let's give a quick some of our thoughts on the show as a whole spoiler. Free before we give spoiler running so people want to hear that and decide if they WANNA watch this show they can and then we'll go into spoilers so Chris what did you think of deaths as a whole I really liked it. I'm a little out of I feel like I'm like Edna loop because I finished it before everyone else. It'd be a screeners. I had like the whole season so I watch it like a month ago but you know when I was watching it I I was all in. It's it's definitely an acquired taste. It's very slow moving show and I know that's not for everyone and not only is it slow but it's also really Quiet show they're very long stretches. Where like no one is saying anything and I could easily see that like driving some people crazy but it worked for me. It's very much in the same wheelhouse as Alex. Carlin's movies like X. Mark and Annihilation. He he he goes from very dark somewhat bleak almost like monotone way of telling stories like all the characters talk and very low voices and they don't say much. It's all about like this building this atmosphere and so people like his movies. You'll like the show. Yeah and it has a lot of people from his movies. Has the actors from his movies. He obviously writes and directs as the same composer is movies So yeah definitely. Has that same feel? I think you said this on the water cooler but you know this is written and directed every episode is written and directed by Alex Garland. So it really has like this real austerer field about it. It feels almost like an eight hour movie or ten hour. How many instances it was eighty eight hour movie and It's really enjoyable. And that I I what I think I like about. Devs is two things the most. I love the ideas it tries to explore. I'm not sure it's completely successful in his exploration of these ideas. But like it's one of these shows that you can come away with and have a lot of conversations with other people that seen it I think about you know how does time work and all sorts of things like that And I love the evocative imagery in this like it. Almost feels like he had like some like a a roomful of concept artists. Like being like come up with Mike. Evocative imagery like we'll try to fit that like there's some really like just iconic looking weird weird and bold things in the show and it is always like not trying to go for the the way you think you'd present things but a more interesting and iconic way to present things so Yeah that's what I enjoyed about at the most. I guess let's get into it This is a show that you know. We'll read description here. The devs follows Lilly Chan. Who is a computer engineer at Quantum Computing Company Amaya? She suddenly finds her entire life up ended when her boyfriend and CO worker surgey turns up dead. The cause of death is listed as suicide but lily begins to suspect he was murdered in a my seo forest played by Nick. Offerman had something to do with it. So did he did yeah. It wasn't that big of a mystery. Actually I I th th you know serve that up pretty early on and I think that might be one of my big problems with the show is that I love the ideas that the show is playing with. I loved the imagery. I love the execution of everything but I I'm not quite sure I F- I drummed up this mystery to have it be away for us to unravel the layers of the mystery of what devs is in I. I'm not sure if thinking about the whole thing as a whole that constructive how we explore these ideas that satisfying I can. I can agree with that. I like the show is a whole vibe. Like the stuff surrounding Sergei getting killed and like it's revealed that he's like a a Russian agent in bed almost feels like it's very secondary to what Alex Garland is is going for here with you know the whole multiple universes sort of thing it like. It almost feels like I didn't need it. Because it's sort of like the catalyst that launches Lilly into you know finding Athens stuff. But it's it's definitely the least interesting part of the show. What did you think of the actress that played lily? Because I've got a couple of my friends This is the garland regular. Her name is Tonia Mizuno. And she's very quiet and a lot of my friends did not like her as mattress because she. She's definitely going for something different. She's playing a computer engineer or computer engineer. She's like A. Yeah yeah so I mean. It's not something we normally see. You don't usually have charismatic computer. Engineers the Squirrel. I mean maybe I'm making a broad generalization but I wonder what did you think of her performance. I think she was very good. I I like hers actress. She was also on Maniac Netflix show and she played a different character on that. And she's of course in X. mackinaw she's one of the one of the robots and she actually was the body double for the weird alien at the end of annihilation. So she's got that she got. The Alex Garland universe pin down. I said feel it a while ago. I feel like that's a thing that Alex garland really goes for an all. His work he liked deliberately makes his actors very like softspoken. Like everyone on this show and you know when you think about like no one really like raises their voice. No one really gets passionate about stuff. They're very just toned down. I don't know why he likes that so much. But it's clearly a thing he wants like across the board. It says something about his direction that makes his his actors go soft when they might go loud and I said I can understand that not working for some people but I thought it was good. There's also another interesting bit of casting in the show because there is a character endeavor. That is a I guess a teenage boy but it's played by a female and not a female represent like she's not translate it. It is a female actress playing a man. Yeah do we know why that is? I don't know why they made that decision That's just the way it out. I guess yeah I'm guessing. I read some speculation online. I'm not sure if this is true. That may be ahead to do with the garland not wanting to work with an underage performer. In the way getting around that was to cast a woman as a young boy because then they don't have to deal with like you know all the restrictions that are required of you know working with someone under I think eighteen so Okay now we're going to enter spoilers. If you have not seen devs we are going to get into it right. Now okay What are your thoughts on this last upset? Crests like your brief thoughts on the last episode. Isil I'm not entirely on board with it but I liked it overall. I I think actually just got like angry with it because that's sort of the point but You know the whole season is building up to this finale where The the Nick offerman character is very much into predetermined ISM. And you know. He's he's obsessed with this idea that you know everything is predetermined and that's why Deb's is operating. It's it's like it's able to predict is able to show the past and predict the future and he's keen to that and That other character you brought up mentions that that's actually not what the machine is doing. It's actually Show taking part in. This thing called on the many worlds interpretation. Which is this real theory in quantum physics that To boil it down into the basic thing Something happens to you. One Way. In this world there might be another parallel universe out. There were the complete opposite happened. So say you're in a car accident in this world and you walk away from the car accident completely fine. Scratch John. You this theory posits that there's another alternate universe out there where the same car accident happened and it killed you. That's basically what it boils down to so it's like a free at anytime anybody who's making decision or not even anybody's making decision. I guess atoms anytime anything makes decision. Then it branches off into these branching paths right and nick armaments character rejects that idea because really. He's building this whole machine. Delake connect with his wife and daughter were killed in a car accident. And he's rejecting this idea that there are other universes and so his whole thing is that the the deb's machine has showed him that he's going to die in that Lillian going to kill him and the ax is actually going to end up killing hers. Well by the way why. Why would he reject the idea of other universes like you'd think that he would want to find a universe where they're still alive and find a way to maybe enter that universe? Yeah I'm not entirely sure as a why he's so dead set against that idea but but maybe it's just the idea that he doesn't want to accept that they're out there somewhere else and not with him in his particularly universe. That's that's how I read the scene but I could be wrong but So there's the some weird like elevator they have that's like runs on magnetic fields inside the building and doesn't have any emergency shutdown procedure. Like if something goes wrong. There's not like any safety. Net or safety like procedure of any kind. It's just it's just a very dangerous thing. And the scenario that nick arguments character sees is that lily shoots Nick Offerman in that elevator That bullet kills him but it also passes through him shatters glass the elevator and it causes the elevator plummet. And that's what kills Lily and he shows her all this and he says there's no way around it into the machine is accurate. This is what's going to happen and she and it looks like that is going to happen. Lee She has a gun on him at the desk building. She forces him into the elevator but then she decides to change things and this is where the parallel universe theory comes in and she actually throws the gun away. And I really love that. But then this thing happens where there's this other employees who also watched the simulation and he was like well it's predetermined and he deliberately mixed the crash kills them and it really pissed me off because I was like you know the whole it felt like the whole show was building towards her rejecting that fate ended up not mattering in the end anyway. And that's obviously it's deliberate but yeah it's still. It's still angered me just a little bit. Because I felt like a cheat feel like the character was doing something motivated by what we've seen of that character. It really just felt like opie. Need someone to fuck this up for them right. Because he didn't seem like entirely on board with everything through the whole show and then at of nowhere he says like all right. I'm going to take this into my own hands. Like it almost would have made more sense if the the alison pill character. Who was clearly more in tune with Nick Offerman? The whole thing had done it but I guess I didn't WanNa make her murderer. I duNNo. It's really weird that this show. Let's let's back up for a second. Let's talk about this. So this show sets up this idea that there's this computer that can analyze the world in can basically predict how everything's going to happen and also somehow see back Seebeck throughout time like that one point. They're looking at Jesus on the cross and stuff like that. So that makes sense like if you had a large enough computer with a large enough memory in it could have could run an algorithm. That was smart enough. You could predict. Nearly everything is going to happen That's interesting to me because Dan like if you predict a future. Can you change it and I? I think that idea of running through the show is very fascinating because you see in the show at one point there like in this room watching this monitor watching the future a few seconds ahead of them watching the monitor and they're having reactions and then few seconds later having the same reaction in the Rome of seeing their reaction from a few seconds into the future and I was sitting there thinking like. Why can't these people have different action? How can why can't like I sit there in that room watching this reaction myself five seconds into the future and be like. I'm not GonNa have the reaction I'm going to stand up and Yell Bozo or something. You know something random indifferent but I guess this this world operates on a I. It's hard for me because of course my favorite movie of all time is back to the future and in that movie time travel is not done in a scientifically a away that melts with science with science. In what they say. What would happen if time travel were possible is it is the one world? Erlich one time line theory where if I went back in time and change something then. That would have always been changed in this. Does that make sense? So I feel like this is running on that like it. So you know. There's that one point in the show. Where a character tells another character that you know what's going to happen in what they're gonNA do. And they don't defy that at all. They stand on the edge of a bridge and basically fall off the bridge knowing. They don't know that they're going to die. But knowing that's a possibility in that world I it seems they're trying to take concepts that are so theoretical putting them up there in reality and I'm not quite sure works for me but I I love delving into and I also love that this show like there's so many great monologues monologue where she's explaining it to the main character alison pill characters explaining to the main character and she's talking about the Pan Rolling the pen on the on the table and it is this great. Like one scene monologue. There's another monologue from the security guy who really didn't end up meeting much in the endgame Where he's talking about the the rise of China and I thought there's some really great writing here But I I did want to talk about this idea of predicting the future. What do you think about how this show? Because it's such a until the ending. It's such a depressing view. That like none of us have any free well. Yeah it's all determined right. I mean I I mean that's a horrifying thought. But you know I was really digging off and I also love the way. The machine showed things that really fuzzy way at the end of the show. They figure out a way to make clear my running this filter through at a river which I thought was kind of like a cop out but I love the the weird like fuzzy nature of it and how lake disturbing ultimately is and I don't know I feel like with this show and with Alex Garland's movies in general. He's more interested in asking the question than providing the answers. I feel like like with annihilation and this. There's no really one hundred percent correct interpretation of everything going on here. I feel Alex Garland is one of those guys who's really into you know ambiguity and and letting letting sort of like the art seep into your your mind and letting it stay with you over the days and weeks to come like he wants you. He doesn't want to explain everything to you. Doesn't want to hold your hand and tell you exactly what's going on and I know that's that's frustrating for a lot of people but I I dig that sort of thing especially in stories like this where it's it's completely up to interpretation and I feel like you can arrive at several different ways to look at the show and this ending and they won't necessarily be wrong they'll just be differ interpretations. Yeah that's also what I love about his stuff. I was like sitting there watching her on her journey. You know under the premise that you know everything is determined and I was thinking to myself like if I'm this character. Why even like go forward? Why even like you know adventure? Why am I watching this story? If it's predetermined then realized that it all movies that I watch are predetermined and experiencing the start. It's a stupid realization but like but does that. Make it less valuable that you know. I can't change the I guess it's just. I don't know what the outcome is right. And I mean I think the show ultimately arrives on the side that everything really isn't predetermined like that's sort of like what this is. All building towards the Nick offerman character says time and time again that everything is predetermined. He has all sorts of speeches about that and in the end like yes. They do die like the machine predicted but it doesn't happen exactly the way the machine said it would and so by by that way. I think even say like the machine really couldn't predict someone's actual free will like some you know the whole show. New Government is saying there is no such thing as free will but then it turns out there really is like she you know lily makes the choice to throw that gun away and it's it completely defies what the machine called them all would happen so the show is ultimately coming down on the side that there is sort of free will in a in a certain way it is lily the only one that has free will or she the only one that we see that has free well because I guess many of the choices that people would actually make that are going to drastically change. What the systems predicting right or what they're looking at. It's like decisions throughout the day. That aren't gonNA have like a I. Guess for the most part. This machine is able to predict like big things because the little the little fly you know. It's not going to have a butterfly effect kind of thing right exactly Do you think she special in. Is this trying to say that? She special in any way. I think I think it is actually and I included a quote from Alex Garland in the in the piece which is slash gone which everyone should read where he's really comparing lily to even the adamant e story. Alex Gardens whole thing quote is he saying like if God is omnipotent. God knows everything that he created eve. He must created eve knowing that she would you know. Take the apple and get them banished from Eden and and if he didn't know that he's not all knowing and he's not omnipotent so that was sort of like the idea behind the lily character here is like she's she's like the even the scenario and so. I thought that was a really interesting way of Lincoln because there's a lot of like religious imagery in the show as a whole there's a whole Christ thing and there's also this one moment where which I found really disturbing where they Machine is showing like Joan of arc being bird the steak and she's like just screaming in pain and you know that's obviously related to religion as well and the the soundtrack uses very like chanting almost like a church like music author out. And so there's all these like religious overtone undertones being thrown out in every episode. There's also the the campus. That's in like I guess Northern California. I like the Muir Woods it looks like has the trees have like this. These and at one point in Kaufman standing blow it. So what is the show trying to stay with that imagery you think I mean like? I think it's Alex Garland tying religion and technologies together. And that that's something he's done before to where he is. Just like the melding of of those those two very different things and I guess that goes to say like in that left episode. They talk about the idea that the silicon valley founders of these huge companies believed that they're almost godlike and they're infallible and in the in the end he has proven that he was wrong right. Oh Yeah I I also wanted to touch a bit about westworld. This season and I guess a slight spoilers for Westworld season three if you haven't seen that but it touches on some of the same areas devs what do you. What do you think plays with a better question? I'm I don't know what the general consensus is for the season Westworld. But I'm I'M READY TO WASH my hands of it entirely. I actually thought even everyone sort of like fell out of love with it. Last season I feel like last season held my interest more than whatever is going on this season and I will say West road is easier to understand. It's it's it's more cut and dry like there. There are many many scenes season West rower characters are literally explaining. What the hell that machine is and how it works and that that's something that is really isn't interested in laying it all out for you so there. They are telling similar stories. But it's all in this in the storytelling like westworld is much more accessible. I guess you could say whereas devs is a lot more obscure and hard to penetrate. And you know I'm not saying one is I mean even I think is the better show. I'm not saying one storytelling. Method is better than the other like really. Your mileage may vary but I feel like I'm much more interested in what happened with Dad's than I am. Whatever going with Westworld? Westworld is aiming like any production with anybody with the last name. Nolan is aiming to hit the mass appeal with smart concepts and ideas. But also you know things blow up in Garland is is going for a more Indy I guess a approaching art house our now what you WANNA call it but it is interesting that both of these shows deal with a company that have created an algorithm that can predict the future of everybody in this world and devs. Even though it's like this evil company they've you know the kill someone at one point and cover it up. We never really get the idea of what this company is going to be doing with this. The system when Westworld they use the system to kind of Control Society and so. It's interesting that this show never gets into what because we understand what Nick offerman once with the system as in his personal His personal motivations. But we don't ever get the sense of what the company wants right now. I realize that one scene where Nick Offerman has a meeting with. I think they're like from the government and but it really seems like everything going on at. This company is just entirely to satisfy nick. Offerman characters needs like. They're not like thinking of like the bigger picture here. I mean other people might be but the people we specifically focus on are really just all tied up in new governments. The you know philosophy I will say this about Westworld I. I really have enjoyed the season. I didn't like last night's episode which kind of took some interested air. I duNno turns. That wasn't expecting it. I don't know I kind of like. It's blade runner. Ask the season. It's it's playing with the future world where humans have kind of input on their own loops of some sort and You know who's the bad guy? Who's the Good Guy? Who's the white hat? Who's the black cat I? I like playing with that It does seem a lot more messy than you know the first season Westworld. But I'm still in last night's episode was like my cut the cord moment. I mean obviously I'm going to finish it because I'm recapping it but I was sort of like going along with things and then last night's episode I was just like just I'm done with the shy. Just don't care about any of this stuff going on and maybe the next two episodes will change my mind. Let's talk about what happens next in devs at the season finale. Herb series finale. Do We know that? This is a mini series. That won't have another season by the way I mean yet. It's being billed as a miniseries but it feels like these days. People change their minds all the time with that sort of thing. I don't I from everything I've read. It really seems like this is a one and done thing but You know never say never i. Yeah okay. So at the end of this. They die Both Nick governments character in the main character. Diane Horrible crash of some kind inside the building and then they awaken in a new world thoroughly in the machine based. It's kind of like that episode of Black Mirror where the saint jude appear where they're like in this other world the simulated were all basically and from my understanding. That whole world is entirely within the DEB's machine because there's that moment where Alison Pill's character is talking to nick government on the big screen and it's my understanding that that if the machine shuts down like they're going to be blinked out of existence. Basically like they're living in this new simulation but it's a simulation where everything is a lot different. Sergei still alive Nick Offerman family are still alive and you even see like there in the field where the devs building is in the real world and the building. Isn't there it's like. The dads doesn't exist within dance. Which is very confusing. But there's also some flashes showing them that there's multi verses inside there as well like there's other like it shows them talking in the daytime in this field and then at nighttime in the field and its cutting between them showing that there's so is there to multi versus inside this computer. I think yes I want to say yes but like I said I I could be wrong here and but again. That's sort of what I liked about. The show is that you could be wrong. Could be right and really. It just boils down to the characters in the end and even though Nick offerman character gets a happy ending is really about Lily's character because even Sergei is still alive in this world she ultimately goes back to her old boyfriend anyway like she did in in our world but that obviously didn't work out the same way but she realizes she loves that character. She'd rather be with him. Even you know even though she's getting the second chance and so that's really what it all comes down to in the end. Yeah but you also say at one point that they could turn off the computer in those worlds would cease to exist but those worlds for my I would assume are not running in real time like our world right so you don't ask me. I would assume I would assume the beginning and end of that world has already been completely played out inside the Dude. I mean like so when Alison Post talking to the conference character. She's talking to him at one point in that timeline. But I'm I'm guessing that timeline exists as a whole do you. I mean I know what you're saying I don't I did. This is where things really start to lose me. This is above my pay grade. I don't know I really don't know how it's all supposed to boil down and then you start getting into all sorts of weird theories like there's always the theory that we ourselves are are living a simulation and we'd have really no way of really ever knowing it if we were so you know you you brain in a jar in a room of science. Yeah right you open that door you end up going into all sorts of different different ideas so but again. I keep going back to this. But that's really what I love about asks. Carlin stuff in general that he's he's more interested in asking these questions than giving us all the answers and I love that I would. I would prefer that over endless expedition not to say that can't work. You know like going back to Christopher Nolan. I feel like inception. I know people have trouble with that movies expedition but I think it works just because it keeps that movie. Yeah moving at a steady clip whereas this as a TV show it's unfolding in such a different way like. I don't think this could've worked as a movie like if you had trimmed his down and told basically the same story in in a movie format. I don't think you would be as successful because there's not enough. There wouldn't be enough room for all these questions all these ideas and a lot of people. I Love Annihilation. A lot of people had a problem with that movie for w-we presented its ideas. And maybe maybe that's the lesson for Alex Garland here. You should stick with miniseries to make everyone happy. Do you think. There's a different expectation because like when you get on like mainstream cinema or even like means drink productions like TV shows like lost. People are upset if not at all the enters or give it you know like are handed to the audience in an obvious way but you know with more arthouse cinema or you know. Miniseries like this and premium cable channels. You know it. Is it more acceptable to have those leering questions? I think so. Yeah because it's not on the same level of like if this were an. Hbo Show like Westworld. Feel like more people would be complaining about it. Like I don't think westworld could get away with being this ambiguous and this obtuse and in fact when westbound does try to do that and it just ends up being really frustrating. So I really just think it's I guess it is like the medium and it's also like the storyteller like the tone of this show like I was saying like the silences in the long stretches of characters not talking it sets you up for that sort of experience whereas Westworld is a much more popular show. It's you know it's about. The action scenes is how blowing stuff up and is about sex appeal. And that's not what this show is so it's really all just a matter of tone at the end of the show. We see Allison Pell talking to Nick. Offerman character inside the computer and we. There's a reveal that there is a new boss in devs new person controlling this company. If this is the mini series that is supposed to you know end here. Not Continue like what? What do you think Alex Garland is trying to tell us with that? Is it the fear like izzy trying to present the idea? Fear that the new person could shut this operation down. I think I think that is sort of us not saying that. That's what's going to happen but I think that's where that idea is supposed to insinuate that. It's it's more likely that this could all be gone in the in the flip of a switch now because there's someone else calling the shots. Yeah no I I love this show. I. I'm enjoying Westworld too although I do have problems at the last episode I I love that. They're both exploring the same ideas from completely different angles. And I I would highly you know. I guess that's listening. Probably has seen so. If you haven't listened to that she on you because we were spoiled everything yes but yeah so anyways you can find Chris's horticulture. I'll link that in the show notes. You can find this podcast. Slash daily published on itunes. Google overcast spotify all the popular podcast APPS. Please feel free to send your feedback. Questions comes concerns. Joseph Peter `Sasha Dot Com and read this podcast nineteen tell your friends. Spread the word and we'll see you on Wednesday.

Alex Garland Nick Offerman Nick Garland Chris Evangelista Westworld westworld Carlin Westworld Lily Sergei Alex Christopher Nolan Lee She DEB New Government lily Twenty twenty Westworld
EP 45 - DEVS with Michael Lucid

Shut Up I Love It

1:03:15 hr | 5 months ago

EP 45 - DEVS with Michael Lucid

"Hello this is Sasha. Mrs Joe Kobe. Oh and this is shut up. I love it so shut up because I love that. That's right where we invite a guest talk about something in pop culture or life that's underrated underrepresented under loved under no one or any of those things joining us today. Oh my God guys. He is an La based comedian writer and filmmaker. He's also known for his online Drag Lady. Reporter character dummy on. I got Seattle. Who who can be found giving her exclusive reports from the Ru Paul's drag race Spinelli red carpet on you to his also part of the ongoing dumpster Queens online sketch series which can also be found on Youtube. Welcome Michael Lucid. Hello hello what a thrill to be here. This is great so nice to have you here because the topic we're GonNa talk about. Is the favorite topic for all three of us. Like we're all fans Michael. What are you here to talk about yes? I'm here to join you guys to talk about devs. The Prestige miniseries on fx. Just finished airing. It's it's eight episodes created by the autour outs. Garland Alex Garland. What else has he done? Michael Wood who is this dude? Oh yes he His previous films Have been to most recent are ex Makia and annihilation both incredible credit very visionary. I think everybody loved X. Mock you know when it was out in the theaters but then an Irish and Mike didn't get enough love I felt like. Didn't you feel similar way? I was I was. I was very upset about that because I loved annihilation that that's probably my favorite of his work and And Sasha you're not we're talking on Facebook Messenger about how we both thought twice in the theater. Yeah we're absolutely loved it and then I was a little dismayed that it was not didn't seem to get the same fanfare publicly that you locking even though that was great. Yeah like if you're listening if you haven't seen annihilation you owe it to yourself to see it especially if you liked devs and if you haven't like devs than thank you for being here. Why don't you pause this podcast? Go See devs comeback? We're going to spoil the out of the show because it's an amazing show. We'RE GONNA get deepen their. We're going to go deep. We're going to dig dig dig in the DNA of the show and it's possible we'll even spoil Some of his other films at X. and annihilation he's I think they're actually. It's pretty fun to watch them in that order because we'll get into their endings later but I actually think it's the ending to each of those projects build on each other. I think that's interesting. You're seeing someone who like a very pessimistic view to To hopeful there's kind of that range within this is three directed projects. That's very interesting. I mean we're all writers here in this Recording and I always find that act threes. Very hard like to write like dramatic three. Let's satisfying you know From what the character has learned in acts one the setup and the to like the meat of the story. And how do you find the satisfying ending? And I think there's something that Joe also saint as well as that. That's where Alex Garland gets real esoteric. It's at the end. Like this is like at threes when he like balls out like top basically God science and how those things cross and like waters. Universal consciousness is and how do we all exist part of that gets tricky at the end with Alex Garland? And I guess just putting it straight out there like X. Martina and Tragically for the main character. And you know you could say positively for the other main character You know one gets free in one becomes in prison then with annihilation You have this dark. This dark hopeful. It's not really hopeful ending but it is like a resolution the to the characters come back together but they're changed and they're not necessarily changed for the better but they they are back together and then with devs you have someone who Kind of in a way had to go through the journey but got what they wanted demand. Big Time in an odd way so let's This is really interesting. Let's get to Depths Michael. Tell us You know. Tell us what we'll be the log. Line tell us what's the what's what's the genre. What's the story of this miniseries sure? We'll let's see one thing. I love about it how I kind of shift genres because it kind of starts as as a contemporary noir. Almost like a tech noir about A young woman whose boyfriend goes missing at the at the very secretive tech company where they both work. So she's on a quest to solve the mystery. What really happened to her boyfriend. And is the security cam footage. She saw of his suicide real and then sort of in the second half of early. I mean okay. Bye Episode to. But even more so in the second half of the season it becomes more of Kubrick ask sci-fi Meditation on time and free will and determinism and it's really I mean not become so visually dazzling conceptually. Exciting that it. It's one of those moments you know. We are after all the Golden Age TV. I Ki I've heard and not improv anymore. But still in the Golden Age of T. V. feels those moments like wow things. We're seeing now on television so cinematic and exciting that you know it really feels like this is a very emblematic of this exciting time. Great so it is a mini series. And it's only What as episodes and The story it's still very slow pace. Wouldn't you say that a lot of times? There's not a whole lot of plot. There's definitely like plot moves within each episode. But there's a lot of very esoteric scenes where there's no plot or story movement really happens and normally that's not something. I liked it because it's done from such Like genuine perspective of how that feels I think is to be in those attacks state or face something of historic nature that I actually do. Enjoy those scenes and to me. They are the most exciting scenes of the show. What do you think Michael Absolutely? Yeah I think there's something so yeah very very offbeat very esoteric about the filmmaking and also the fact that outs garland wrote and directed every episode which is kind of very cool unusual that he really got to imbue the whole thing with his vision almost as if it were like warm. Long Dome. Yes. Speaking of it like the finale which will get to of DABS I think is definitely the most debated part of DEB's almost like loss finale wars or any of that sort where some people very happy with the way ended or in some people are not and I will will definitely get to that but I wanted to actually to share screen with you for just a hot second to show you if you look at your zoom the Comey Ohka story in Japan. It's a real place that looks a lot. I think that's where Alex Garland got his inspiration. So if y'all listeners WANNA check it out go on go online and Google K. A. M. I O Ki Ay Observatory in Japan and you'll see that space with gold You know spheres Without like the ceiling the floor. It doesn't have like a horizon at all. He's just this large space which is deb's basically is the secret project by Tech Company that is as revealed in the finale. Is the God machine. So this is the Tech Company. And what does this represent to the CEO of Maya Forest? His his young daughter has tragically died in a car accident and his company and her name was a Maya and now he's created this little company also named Maya as kind of monument to her and fittingly enough. There is an actual monument in the center of the campus of this tech office complex. And it's a huge one hundred foot stat tall statue of the girl a and it's one of the most visually Irian uncanny elements in in the in the miniseries to see this strange girl figures of towering over lifelike. And of course we're talking about Nick Offerman the CEO of Amaya and a lot of horrible things happened right at the feet of the statue which is one of them. Is this stage murder suicide of would seem to be like the main character in the first episode said. Gay played by Carl Glossman. I've seen him before in the very sexual film by Gus Bar it called love. I mean this thus far no age was doing porn basically. Yeah but he's a really good actor and he does this crazy Russian accent that I I normally like hate Russian accents the way they portrayed in film and TV. 'cause there will always like this and he's just doing very convincing pretty strong. Russian accent and I was like wow how Russian character the will be like one of the main characters in this show and he dies in the pilot. And that's what really is the inciting incident of the entire series. Okay so they killed the Russian character. Worse there's footage of him right burning himself at the feet of the statue that represents a Maya and his girlfriend doesn't believe right Michael. She doesn't she doesn't believe there's something fishy about because we know we know it's fishy because he was murdered in front of our eyes and we get to see to see the. The actual murder happened. she suspicious and by the way another and you know there's that kind of a hitchcock in. Saco thing happening where you know again like Marion Crane and psycho where we you know. We are very attached to the protagonist and then lose done away with with the first Acura so similarly kind of like in psycho where the sister becomes the new euro in this series lily becomes the euro and yeah it's and immediately we're on board with her and I read an interesting interview with Alex Garland where he said he loves the actress who plays Lily because of he says that that there's something very strange and off about her and something kind of uncanny and it's user and so many of his projects because there is the she does have this kind of ethereal quality to her acting when she was a dancer. I she's a ballet dancer and You could see her and being the alien like she does. The body work of the like the silvery alien in the end of the annihilation. She's also one of the people who work at the house where the X. Mike in a story takes place right but but she's like never had like a prime like you know like a main lead role until finally this is where would get to finally see like her and she's amazing. I'm in love with her. I think she's amazing. She's a she does little things but this she can get so emotional zero to sixty so fast like when she finds out The her boyfriend has died and she watches the tape and then she returns to see the body to see that there's proved there's body that and she starts screaming. I think it's the end the pilot and I was like she is doing the losing my shit emotion. Better than I've seen many actors do like ever yes total. Yeah no she. She has such a range such a great range emotionally and her performance. It was so nuanced and powerful. And it's important because she's going to be sort of our you know the prison we're gonNA build the most invested in and she really does Bring us on board and that way while still having this kind of the`real quality user so Michael. You told us what devs is with the premises deb's and in the center of the premise. Is this machine right. This would comes out to be Dell's X. Mocking I'm sorry not of Dale's Dale God in Latin machine. What would you describe this machine because it's fucking hard to explain what it really is? It's it's funny because it's almost like the show like this concept of machine God machine. It's it's almost like the like the techie wet dream because it's a machine that can see everything and know everything and it could. I love his idea that it's almost like this aspirational fantasies for tech people. Because it's like the compute the supercomputer that knows the entire past and future of the universe or in fact the multi-diverse every possible alternate reality or timeline. That's ever existed or ever will exist. It knows all and it looks like a like almost like an Art Deco Centerpiece Fountain. It's hard to even say what the actual machine is like. How much of the building at sand even encompasses the machine because it's like with its. It's essentially a screen that they watch and they can see anything from the past and what's the event more terrifying as anything in the future which is unchanging regardless of how someone interacts with the machine a well and of course In the devs lab. There's this gleaming cube right like mysteriously suspended in mid air inside this golden involved and what holds. This cube is probably track. Nettie field right at the end gets turned off and leads to the death over these two main characters. This machine though is saying is telling the pass is telling the future but the big question of the show is whether it's telling would really has happened. And what would happen or is it giving just one version of the simulated of what may have happened and may happen in the future. Based on all the information has right yes because its very existence proves that there is no such thing as free will because if it can if it's going to show you exactly what happens in the future and even you knowing the future would not change it that means you don't have free will and that's what a lot of the characters are then wrestling with upon first learning about this machine and it was kind of scary about it right so the big thing. I think almost feel like that's like the thing like a screenwriter. Probably struggles with writing this show. I mean who knows but it's if the character knows if I human the Human League say I'm the character in the show. I know that this machine things that the next thing I'm gonNA say is hello. Welcome then why like it should be my like. I should be challenged. Do not say those words. I should be challenged to say something different or do something different. And of course that becomes the big point towards the climax of the show when Lilly Chan Chan played by Way Mizuno the main character of the show. She has to make you know she has to either kill forest the CEO of Amaya the company that has built deaths or she doesn't kill him look says she makes this choice and but but before she doesn't make the choice right like she keeps saying exactly with the machine wanted her to to say what would they predicted her to say and forest puts it really. Well I believe in that last scene he says I've watched this moment. You know a million times but still these words that I'm saying feel just like the most natural thing for me to say right. He's not seeing. This is interesting because that's the only explanation. Alex Garland did put in the script of like well. So then how come how come. He's saying exactly what he thinks will be said he knows will be said. And it's fours does say it's not that I am saying the words script like oh I have the script and I'm saying this words is is just like they are organically naturally coming out of my mouth and then like it doesn't explain any more of that I I don't think it needs to. I think there's like two key moments that sort of wrestle with explaining it and the most brief way it can that's one where he you know kind of literally says this is You know these words feel as natural as anything else and then the really scary moment when they first turn the machine on and there's about like six or seven people in the room watching what I believe. It's like one second ahead of right that moment and they're just like getting up like having natural reactions but then watching their natural reactions second before they have them and it's almost like dizzying and sickening to watch and you get from them they get like terrified and like turn it off. I for me between those two moments. I understood it enough and I could buy it enough that that this is just like reflecting human nature because no one's doing anything crazy like in front of the machine and then trying to trick it not adopt point you do wonder if everybody honor knew about the machine. Would THAT CHANGE. Could it possibly predict the future? Like how much of a variable is having interacted with machine and seeing the future of kind of you know in my in my pop. Science understanding of the uncertainty principle but that whole idea of the observer changes the phenomenon so just by end sort of. That's what happens with Lily. Is that because she becomes aware of this deterministic machine. That gives her free will so that she can choose to do something differently as the observer whereas if she had never been made aware of the machine maybe she wouldn't have had as much free will it is interesting because I think on one hand. There's definitely the whole observer thing right like the observe changes that outcome on the other hand There's the constant Almost like underlining In the dialogue from other characters aside from Lily to say that she is different. There's something about her that she's special like almost like saying she's the hero She's brave. She's the one that can do this. If there's somebody who can change the future will be her. Which as much as I love this character and I I obsessed with Sonora Mizuno. I actually felt like a lot of was said by other characters. Because I didn't see how That's one to sort of do moments that I'm less connecting with the show is where how she different from everybody else. Why is she better than what is the Jimmy? Her X. Y. Think you're thinking of better in terms of if this were your typical like hero heroic tale movie or show. But it's not she's better because she makes choices like she is better for this very specific and slight thing that she does. It's almost like a Darwinian. Like a like a trait that she has somehow that maybe other species don't have yeah and it's very small and I guess there's there's definitely the biblical references of like you know the The the fruit of knowledge and I. I don't know too much about religious studies. Does anybody here know I do not not officially? But there's something to like the sin of knowledge that she she has at the end and makes me think lil if you know. That's the one kind of a goal you know she's the first woman woman making a transgressive with. Yeah I think we've Definitely gone over dabs in general sense. I think the big question is how satisfying was defer. Nali right then. We've touched on this a little bit but well first of all Michael. Why would you say this show that you brought in is a good topic to discuss in this podcast? Do you think it's underrated or I mean it's probably pretty you popular show. Isn't it funny? Because I feel like you know it seemed like this conversation came about I especially now that we're all in quarantine and we don't have that same day to day. Interact with each other where we can talk about our favorite shows and find out what people are watching and giving excited about so. I finished the finale and then posted on facebook a photo of that ominous statue girl hovering above their campus and said you who is watching and who else likes the show because I wanted to have the conversation know the pop culture conversation and Sasha you reached out we get it your lonely. We're all we're all feeling lonely. I was feeling the Corinthian got guys and Add Sasha you reached out and so then we started this conversation and then I think it came about. Oh wouldn't you know what could be a great podcast? Topic is the show. And it's funny. It's hard to gauge right now. Are PEOPLE WATCHING. Do they love it And I didn't see much online engagement. So that's what also made me think. Oh maybe people aren't watching. Well I will say this. It's obviously not a show for everybody. my I wouldn't say I think my parents would enjoy this to a degree but I say you know your parents shout. I feel like that's friends of the show. That's that's usually kind of this psycho delineation. We can understand like oh if your parents know who a pop star. Is there really famous that way? 'cause parents want to watch a two and a half men and a CSI a very like parents show those that demographic that you would lump in with people who watch that and enjoy that and that's their like Tv that they watch. They're not gonNA like this. They would hate it right now. Two very specific pill to swallow. I think it's just because we already discussed how this there's a lot of teric like scenes the just deal with the atmosphere the feeling that arises in the presence of something bigger than life bigger than your human existence. I mean a lot of this is about universal horror and and philosophy and philosophy that Alex Garland constantly explores in his work. I think those scenes are like a turn off to somebody who's tuning in for an espionage movie or even like a Scifi flick. Because I mean again like I think that X. Martina is the most like popular work. I haven't seen the beach but ex mechanisms the most popular film of Alex Guards Twenty eight days later because he wrote it. Well I think you have to delineate. His directed work which started with x mocking annihilation and this and then they'll work where he was a writer which I believe. He did the novel for the beach of national if he did the screenplay with Moscow possibly But Twenty eight days later. Yes so those are all popular and they. I'm sure you could Rewatch them with all of his three directed films in mind and Kinda get some themes maybe not so much with dread but it's You probably could but I think really if you're gonNA talk about him. It's those three projects directed which go really well together. Yay An Irishman devs. And you know if people who didn't like X. Annihilation than The A lot like devs so more even more esoteric. It's one of those things where he had no notes. The Guy was just like I'm GonNa fucking do what I want and nobody is going to ask me. What's right and what's wrong? I'm just GONNA take some money and make fucking what I see in my head when my eyeballs and he did it like he really did it. And that's the O- tour at its best. I think the show where you really get to see what this interesting person with. All his you know shit that's happening in his head. And all this thoughts that he has about existence and philosophy he really puts it out there on the screen with compelling characters in the amazing performances. And I I'm just I'm game for that shed yeah. He's very obsessed with technology. That advances to the point where it becomes nature you see that with X. Martinez like literally a robot who becomes a human being by the end of it. You have annihilation where You know an alien super developed thing is infecting and Becoming one with nature to the point where it's melting with a human being and then you have devs where essentially technology is is existence like the devs technology is kind of the blueprint for life. So I think it's very interesting. How he that's like a continuing theme in the projects. He works on guys when you were watching the finale I mean. Did you have any ideas? Michael did you have any ideas? Going into the finale of what the finale would be like. You know the writer you know. Sometimes you try to. Maybe I'm sure I definitely have one of those stupid one too. Yeah I love how out in the penultimate episode cliffhanger is that she's release arriving at devs for the final showdown which we now know at least been set up like this prophesized whatever chaotic moment. It's about to happen the moment that can be predicted by the computer. So I kind of figured that there's banality with Kind of blow out that the front would be the third act and into full almost hour long episode and and and it did. I feel like it did do that and that was satisfying to me in was an entertainment weekly where Alex Garland gives his great put a comprehensive interview and said that he loved about making this devs miniseries instead of a feature film is that he didn't see it as one long film. He really embraced the episodic format and how that allowed him to delve deeply into each story unit in where he couldn't in a in a you know a two hour feature film and he and he sort of using that medium in this exciting way and so yeah with normally would have maybe twenty minutes. Let's say in a feature or or maybe he's able to make it like fifty minutes and really make it this kind of Kubrick. Two Thousand One mind expanding high-concept extravaganza that last episode really reminded me of the last episodes of Neon. Genesis have been galleon. I know people love that but I've never seen it so if you like. Devs think you'd actually enjoy that show. It's it's not a it gets into the hetty levels. That doves does but it's more of a popcorn Mecca fighting monsters type thing but still the the last episodes are a lot of just voiceover over images like random images not random but atmospheric images and stuff and I thought 'cause the first Probably five ten minutes of the finale is totally like that. I thought it was to go full hard into that. And kind of just be like that. The whole episode. I was almost down for that. I had a stupid thing I thought was going to happen. What so I think you find out. That devs can't see the future past a certain point which is in like at the time forty eight hours or something. I think that's like the third to last episode or maybe halfway through something like that you find out that piece of knowledge. I thought the world was GONNA end at that time. That's what I thought for a while and then I was like oh no. This isn't really playing like that is going to happen but for a little while. I was like ooh that could be interesting. Because what are the implications that it can't look past a certain point it's either that it was destroyed? Everything was destroyed. And they've you destroy the God right. Then what does that mean? Does that world still exist or not you know. And we'll find out that spoiler alert the characters end up will lease the two main characters Forest and lily do end up in the different world they they essentially die so then their data gets loaded to a different world. One in which forced daughter is not dead which was his goal the entire time. And how did you guys feel when you found that out? I mean did you feel like Oh shit. Did you feel like I knew it? Did you feel like good for them? Or what were the other responses that you were having? It was very gratifying. I you know. We know the sinister mystery bill builds up what happens once the after the computer can no longer predict what's next and then we learn. It's because yet now Lillian. Forests earns virtual world where they get to They've happy ending their dreams. Come true and emotionally was the right place to go. It was. It was great payoff and gave a lot of great emotional closer. You know to see forest with his daughter and lily ultimately with Jamie which is who we want to see her with and and yeah an Alex Garland said in his interview. That ending was what he all along envisioned like. That's where it needed. It needed to end with lily with Jamie and that was like the true loving relationship and yet but now now now that now that we have all we all agree that we love the show and we absolutely love it now. Also I guess get into qualms or questions right questions and with the finale. Because there's been a little controversy. Online fans do debate very story points and one thing is for me was If the machine can predict any possible outcome in all the different multi verses were there some outcomes where lily chose not to shoot the gun. Or that's the point. That's what couldn't be predicted or or light a stewart who. We haven't touched on Stewart. Which another issue. But that's their coworker at deb's and he's sort of instrumental in the finale. But why does he caused the levitating glass case to crash killing Lily and forest? You know things like that. Yeah Lilly makes the choice. Even though she knows that the machine says that she will kill forest to revenge for the murder of that these two of her boyfriends and at that point. She's she's bit resigned to its power. Because she didn't she thought she was gonNA fight off what she already knew. She knew she was going to go there at midnight or whatever she her plan was to not do it but she found herself in a inevitability like an emotional inevitability that like. Oh Jamie was just killed. I have to face these people I have to. You know we have to finish this So by the time. She's finding out her fate which is to kill for us that point. She's a little bit like well. Fuck this things it must happen right so I think. That's what makes it even more powerful when she does fight off the choice. Yeah I don't know about other I don't know who you've seen the WHO we are watching with. I was watching on my boyfriend. Who kept saying over and over and he loves. Alex Garland but shoutout to g hunter because he kept sitting in front of the show he kept saying over and over will. Why does she just do something else? Against what the machine is telling her to do well of course. Dramatically is because the big choices shit to make not to kill right And I think justly Joe saying like emotionally she was in that state that forest has described as naturally saying the things. The machine has predicted for her to say do but the big choice she makes is not to kill forest but Stewart played by Stephen McKinley Henderson. He wants to destroy God. Them got machine and that was another thing that bothered me because he wants. He didn't really destroyed the machine. He just killed forest and even for his dad's a machine would still exists. He destroyed like the electromagnetic field the cube that was like the elevator cubed was holding a forest and Louis Together. I think he had gone a bit. I think he had gone a bit crazy and was obsessed with the machines and its accuracy so even if lily couldn't didn't kill forest while they would He could still keep true to the faith that the machine had had What do you call it? A said was going to happen by killing them both in the same way that they were GonNa die. I had a I had that feeling. Q. Is so tapped in and glued to this idea and faith in the machine that he helps in some ways Prove its prophecy and actually would also occurs to me. Is that in the end? We you know that the government live senator. I think she's a senator. Who's been sort of behind the scene sort of scheming and figuring out use the computer for the government. Perhaps even if Stuart's goal was to destroy the machine maybe it's because he didn't he knew that even with forests out of the way you wanted to destroy the machine because it could fall into the hands of the government and knows what they would do that whole. I wasn't like that into the lead. Like you know good for her. She was like character but it really was like almost unnecessary that that character. I think it was their way of being like. Hey just so. There's no questions we're going to keep the machine on. And that's how they're gonNA live for you know. Live out right because you have to worry like simulated reality. That lily ends up and with forest and others. If that's GONNA keep on existing or not how long how long if a plane hit the building and the building was destroyed like their life would be over but is that any different than our reality and how we exists and is it really for no for forest that he just wanted to be his daughter. But there's the the burden of knowing that they're living in the simulator reality. I mean that's not going anywhere. Yeah she doesn't seem. I think it's all about how you perceive it. I don't think for forest he sees it as simulated reality. I think he sees that is no different than reality at point and his okay with that as far as lilly she. That's what's so tragic is that she didn't sign up for this. She didn't say even though she gets what she wants. It's like kind of it's there is something terrifying about when she wakes up in a few days or however long the the series spans over back the day of the first episode. It's very tragic but you're also like you wanted her to live. You wanted her to to make it through so it's still dark still. Has that like dark? Lonely Alex Garland Energy. Nobody wins really at the end and in my biggest qualm of with the show. If there is one is that forest doesn't pay for his since really because if he's okay really wants to be his daughter even if it's a simulated reality that he does as a tech giant takes a tech guru takes as reality and he just wants to be there because love for her is so strong and the grief is so strong and so he gets the relief but he never gets the punishment. Unless that is the punishment knowing that it's still a simulated reality then wait. Why does Lily have to get? But I don't get the feeling that he's bothered by that feeling either at the same time what. We're his sins. Let's talk about what he truly did. Wrong let's talk about it. He he enables his henchmen Kenton. All these murders and we'll Sergei Sergei deserved it to be killed or taken to present question mark or was he just deserved to be murdered You could have taken to trial anything you know. These are the Russians. We're talking all right. So so you saying Joe that surrogate deserved it sorted? Deserved it so then As far as anybody else who died for US didn't order. That can deal with the Kenton kind of going rogue. What do you think Michael so I got your point all right? So you're saying for US INNOCENT PUERTO BY NEXT I. I don't know if he's totally innocent but I don't think he's. He's event like so swayed on the evil side of things I think he's a man with power and a lot of crazy stuff happened because he had this crazy device but I think it was actually the people around him like Alison Pill and Kenton Who were more evil like directly evil than he was? I think his biggest sin is being so focused on getting his daughter back that he was blind to the chaos around him and he's and he's sort of used that he uses that as immoral crutch because he sort of passively allows everyone around him to do these really nefarious deeds and says either. He's as well. We're on track in your deterministic track. And everyone's just doing what they were. GonNa do anyway. So what you know. My hands are tied and we'll to take care of it and that's what he did. I didn't know he'd do that right. Whoops well Jamie does at some point calls the tech giant's the mob. He says they're practically it. Tech Company is just basically a mob and I think we are. We're meant to be a agreement without statement would force is doing. Is You know he's not considering other people. He's just considering his own gain which is to get his daughter back. And because it's such an under it's such a sad. He's from coming from such a point of view of grief that like you. You almost forgive him but then people are still kind of keep dying and lilies like almost dying constantly. I guess like he knows that she's not going to die because she's going to end up a de the end of the episode it gets really weird at a certain point talking about the show because certain characters know exactly. What's going to happen? So you have to keep that in mind when let me know if he throws her under a truck you know she's GonNa make it because he's convinced one hundred percent she will end up a adept at the end which she does. Alex Garland seems to have contempt for tech companies in Guys even remember the line from x marking Oscar Isaac Character. Who is the big like a CEO? Type Megalomaniac He's talking about is security cameras or whatever and he says I had the guys killed who built them. Because there's too many secrets here more or less and you know he's making a joke but not but I think it's still. It's so tied into that idea of the tech giant's being mobs and you know yeah they're gonNA win. There's corporate espionage like surrogate. They're going to kill them. They're not gonNA get him arrested because they can't be dealing with that. Shit and my ex walking Garland says that he's and you. We've touched on that great moment in the final episode win big reveal that devs is actually the Roman way of writing days. Which which was me. I love that moment did not surprise me and I'm saul soaring. Oh mind blown. My brain is easily blown usually. But that's not the one time that I do it. Simultaneously Stupid angrily. It was good that he kind of he sort of jokingly said he's like Oh the character forrest says that was an inside joke which is good because it is it is cheesy cheesy twists reveal but Yeah and so and garlands in that way it kind of ties in nicely to how this is a companion piece to Martinek is on. Its do your both our commentaries on on the tech world and tech moguls. Yeah I have to say guys. I know Alex Garland is right of writing. Some crazy ass. Shit right now in quarantine. What do you think that's all I can think about? I'm like sure I am writing. Shed other writers are writing should but what is Alex? Garland is writing. There's there's some very exciting directors like Including Ham Ari. Astor really commercial work. That is also incredibly unique and strange and I really appreciate it because I think as much as like devs might be the more I would say. inaccessible but that's just because it's eight hours long. You know but I feel like anybody could really enjoy X. Makina like 'cause they're they're pretty commercial But they're also so weird they get an Ariosto has as well It's it's great to see that because I I don't like something that's totally weird and like not following story and not having your typical three structure. But I don't want it I don't want it too much this this really resonates with me Joe because I agree. There are certain sweet sweet spot for me to be really in love with a show or movie that is like it's like you can't be will see. I still love die hard. You know like there's certain like films and TV shows that are very Hollywood various structured and. I still enjoy them but for me to really love and feel like it's my kind of film my kind of show a has to have some strangeness to it but not to be all strange that I am lost in the weeds and like there are certain things that I'm just like no I'm not GonNa Watch it no I do. I know like it's complete nonsense like most recently. I was watching Well a good example would be a venture time it's I love brick and mortar for example. Which doesn't but but then there's like adventure time or the most recently This new show. I never watched that midnight. Gospel Made Gospel Smith example of where I was super excited like watching it. I was like Nah to you. Crazy I what are you? What did you think of Gospel Love it. You know what I do really enjoy it. It's it's such a stone show as total existing. Estonia reality and I actually. I wasn't watching it sterling but I would sort of maybe just hit me in the right so that first episode with Dr Drew It was tickling me in this absurdist kind of again I actually. I'm I've never watched a full episode of adventure time and now. I want to go watch adventure. Time and roller as myself was his other word. It's interesting I really like. For example like The Aqua Teen Hunger Force which I think is also donors show but the enough of the fun and that for me to be like okay. That's fucking funny so I'm going to love that insults. Social Eleven minutes got show couldn't be twenty two minutes or longer. They were perfect for that. But like speaking of Rick. And morty I think what's great about that as it gets into weird grounds it gets into very like scientific and like abstract concept but What's his name? Dan Harman Harman is a master of TV Three Act Structure The circle the famous story circle. And he's you know stickler of it so the all those stories are incredibly or that show is incredibly commercial because he does have those elements that we know we like and And we can follow but it's all wrapped up in all these really interesting weird and concepts that we don't normally get. And that's kind of what similar how Alex Garland is movies and shows are still wonderfully structured and Traditional in many ways. But he's using it to explore really abstract topics. Yeah plugs of you know in interest to me and I agree with Dan. Harmon his stories that he is so obsessed with the perfect act structure. Apparently that in these writers room there's like story circles a constantly brought up in the discussion and breaking up story. Their story circles on refrigerators. And all around like just. It's you know. He's a big believer in the hero's journey in even this like mini version in brick and morning episode. And I agree. It's taking the content. That's very maybe not your every day you know meat and potatoes the you'll see on TV 'cause we're dealing multiple universes with you know big quantum physics ideas and taking them into a great perfect the structure and they'll say putting a lot of Dick in vagina jokes and hopefully more vagina jokes in the future in them. You know it it makes it perfect show and good. Morning is absolutely perfect. Show to me and GOING BACK TO ALEX. Garland. I mean. He doesn't give a shit if he has to at this point. Just sit on a shot for two minutes of something that we've never seen before. Nothing's been like this on television. For example for the first time we see the Christ on the Cross for the first time these characters go back in time the machine goes back in time and recreates the Christ on the Cross in. You know it's grainy it's black wide. The sound is distorted but they recognize dot figure and with the score from the score for Alexander. There's always insane this dude ban Saleh's Berry and Geoff Barrow the same composers. The right music broke music for nine elation and devs. I'm not sure about X. marking up but that fucking trippy music and those images that one has never seen before is like enough for me to spend time in that space where. I'm not concerned with three act structure but then it gets back to that you know. Even though it's j- it's ultimately going to give you that I would describe the show as atmosphere. You know it's really something to put on a big screen and watch and sit in and enjoy. And that's why I think a lot of people might not get it enjoy it. I don't want to get it because that's that's you know it's not so much getting at. It's just if you had psychedelic. Experiences will be easier for you to enjoy these shows. Yeah and it does. It takes a lot of skill to be able to pull off a movie show or anything that's atmospheric in that way. There's a lot that has to be working together from the music to just is the image beautiful and compellingly shot. 'cause if you're going to sit on something for two minutes with just like very little camera movement if it's lacking in one area you. Hulu you'RE GONNA turn the shirt off you're GONNA go minimize and go look for something else. I it's the pace is so different. It's just so different from almost anything else on TV and it's good that the first subject kind of eases into it by the time we get to episode five when things are we're seeing non linear time and shots being held for two minutes He sort of built us up to that. So anyone who stuck with it. That long is ready for that. It just keeps happening with the show where we get a glimpse into the past from the perspective of the people who work a DEB's as the seed on the screen Ron of them and he doesn't bother Alex Garland doesn't bother explain what we just saw. He just moves on. It's like tone setting you know it's a very interesting cold open. Yeah type of weight. It apply that to the show. I like the tone setting. It almost makes me think of the old bars and tone that used to be before. Like make until vision like okay. This is how the red is GonNa look at this screen and how the sound is going to sound like the beep and is the same way. It's like dude if you have any questions. This is what the show is like your like. Slow down slow your roll. Whatever you coming in with coming in hot this this this is you're GonNa roll with what I giving you and it's I fucking love. Alex Garland and I love devs man. Oh shut up I love it. Shut your by love it as well great. I will be watching it again in the near future like. It's on my list before some new shows to watch again because seeing everything Knowing how it ends and knowing that determinism yeah. I'm excited to see what might be an Easter egg hidden. Why might say you're predetermined to watch that show again -actly my name's not Joe? It's okay now it all makes sense. I'm so happy to talk about it. what are we moved to the The final chapter of this podcast episode. Where we wait. Devs what this means. Michael is that we each of us individually creates a ten point scale. Where're each of us? will take A different show. That's maybe like devs or another piece of art that's like devs and put it on the scale probably somewhere up high just to set the scale itself like what are we dealing with and then put devs against it. I can start as an example. I'm actually yeah. I'm actually GONNA take an eye elation and I'm GONNA put a ten because it is one of my favorite films and the Mo most reachable recent history Tan. I the fucking scene of the lighthouse is. Oh Yeah I mean suggest the you I I don't I don't even if you haven't seen it go back. What should again? If you've seen a twice like me go see it again because I will. You could feel that seat like they're so weird like you can feel the pushing the pressure like that. She's having an against this creature in that scene. Like it's an it's weird the drop of blood landing and the creature the the alien analyzing it and it's the it's the most. I love horror movies because they don't scare me almost but that's some scary shit in that. Fill like when you when you when you hear the alien talk to her in this music like I don't know what the fuck those guys Guys it doesn't get better than that if I could give it twelve I would. Yeah and I think devops for me if I mean look I. I don't even know what's one because this is a scale already of perfection we're talking. Alex Garland you know read. I don't know if it's his baby. I don't know if I'M GONNA regret their take a big old dumb pointed But if I have annihilation at ten I think devs a solid eight point five for me. Okay okay again. I'm only talking about already scale of perfection. But it's just you know like there's nothing I want to change Abidin Islay. Shen like there's nothing scared fucking bear and more beautiful and strange as the dance off between Natalie Portman and the alien played by Sonora McConnell But Dallas has a couple of things that I just felt like. War little bumpy. It was a little bumpy a couple of times especially the end I do. I am overall happy with where it all ended. It just felt like it allowed itself to be wooded as without maybe like answering some things some things just like to be answered like a one a one the answer of what does it mean that Nick. Offerman forest killed people but he gets what he wants to me is. The big question was never answered. The second thing is why does lily not say something different early on and she only does something different when she makes that dramatic of course choice to not kill for us. Those are two main things. I also just kind of still don't know how to feel about the Russian involvement like Hick I know was a thing that like is it was almost like a misdirect shows about Russians away. It's not but I. It's almost like a mess or gay and I wanted to know a little bit more about him in some ways. I know. Maybe I like the carrots a little too much. Those just things a takeoff point and a half for me but eight and a half is still pretty up there. Fucking love it. I'll probably see the show again. Joe What do you think Well I don't know if I'll use this show that about dimension to For the scale. But I think it's hard not to mention a westworld also when talking about the sheriff. Yeah I feel like Especially this new season of westworld which is dealing with a supercomputer that can basically predict every you know thing that people are going to do one thing but I feel like dad's as much stronger approach on that story but that's also because westworld has been a million things so far you know started as like. Westworld is not west world anything anymore. It's really branched off into a lot for better for worse. Not sure so but I think it is hard not to kind of have that. Come to mind that new season so if you did like devs for for kind of that like supercomputer that can predict anything or whatever type of thing checkout westworld. See if they're gonNA do it right. You don't want to put it on the scale. Though no because Westworld I'm would be low. I do watch it faithfully shrill staying shrill till the end of season. Two I can't say no I binged all the first season like super-quick and then I I haven't gotten too far into too but Might for this scale I would say prestige shows. I'M GONNA say leftovers is ten. Okay really like leftovers And I'M GONNA say devs is a ten okay all right now leftovers Joe. You have to help me out here. I the pilots was just like not promising. Not but I know people love leftovers. I watched the pilot. Maybe like six seven years ago or something And then I was just like I'm not really into it then. I was doing some from home for awhile so just a lot of periods in front of the computer screen and I was like all. I'll try it again. Misses a couple years ago and then I think I finished the series in like a week. Just hooked me so it's a very I it's one of those shows that if you're not in the mood for a show where it's a grower right. We just like me. So maybe that's what I could see not being in the right mind space for it and that goes for any show too. I mean some shows if you didn't like it try when you're in a different moods later. Yeah Cova might have changed a few moods so see how that You know sits you. Yeah does just my guess all right so yeah maybe I will give you another chance leftovers all right. So that's where we add Michaele most importantly what is your scale and where does Dev in on that scale for you? Yes well you know where my mind keeps going. It's so unfair to doves keep going to two thousand one Kubrick's thousand one hundred shooting for the stars because to both shows also sort of eventually get into this kind of non linear no cutting backwards and forwards and timed cave people and they start out sort of a thriller textile than become this metaphysical meditation on. What does it mean to be human and what is time and the space child the Space Child? Absolutely a my as sort of the space child and So it's kind of unfair. 'cause that's going to tip the scales because I mean he. He may be changes the paradigm he kicks it up. Let's say Kubrick is if he's twenty changing the scale we're allow occasionally guest changed the scale. Thank you messing with. What's in two thousand one hundred twenty? That's GonNa Bring dabs up to Tucson nine. Okay yeah all right because for me. Curve I respect the Kerr the curve. But also want to flatten the bid. Don't want upsetting body by making that pawn but I wanna know what else is on that scale because if mass masterpiece of two thousand one space. Odyssey the twenty seven nine. Where else is on it? What are we to fifteen question? I WANNA get deep into it because blue. It's almost like it's his less than fifty percent of the scale but We'll take our skills very seriously here. It's shut up. I love but if it's curved than you know like there's very little difference between nine and twenty but there's a huge difference between one an eight right right right we'd have you seen the westworld watching westworld. Michael I skip two and I did all of these satellite. The first few months he's in three and And it's when the supercomputer comes up on the west builds Imagining all the the producers of devs be like what's happening another supercomputer. That predicts everything. Yeah it really takes. More of an assassination nation approach to The supercomputer and for those people who saw assignation nation. You'll know what I'm talking about. The other suckers go check out. Assassination nation right. So you do the season three sounds like I like it okay. Well I was going to put that on the scale I would. So if dubs as a nine point five I would put westworld season three at of eight Yup. It's it's seeing interesting things and it's doing it's very blade runner. All that lay. That's fine Super Super Bowl Room. And what does the nomination go on it? Okay 'cause you know. Dilation also feels very two thousand one. GonNa put down. That's the fifteen team founded while it is it also gets a little tough with like a series versus a movie like when you're comparing us even comparing something like leftovers which is three seasons to dive. It's it gets a little tough. Nothing's perfect shut up. I love it but we do love our scales and this probably is by far the most complex Gail I've encountered forty some episodes. Your curves great. Well thank you so much Michael for coming on and talking to us about deb's thank you. It's been a thrill of delight. This was Supposed to happen for us to Michael because what people don't know as me and Michael maybe every three or four months we get together and we share a script. We've been working on and give each other nuts and we were just about to do one probably in March. The quarantine interrupted our ritual. Once again the predetermined is wins. Does Michael Is there anything? You'd like to plug come visit me on instagram. Might Drag Lady reporter Persona Dummy on Instagram. She's at dummy Gercy. What about the Queen's? Thank you dumpster Queens the web series. I I'm happy to be a part of K shot a zoom episode. So that's in the works. Maybe by the time this comes out you listeners. We'll be able to find that as well. Yes Dave Willing News will not all. I'm going to say what about you? Kobe I'd like to plug my comic book. It's called robot. Black Belt Champion. You can get it at robot. Black BELT CHAMPION DOT COM for free. And it's really funny and cooling cute great. Thank you joe for Co hosting with me. Thank you for coming on as a guest. Thank you Elizabeth Salute for artwork. Thank you before your videos. Thank you Andrew Hayworth for music and thank you for listening.

Alex Garland Michael Lily Mrs Joe Kobe writer murder CEO facebook Sasha X. Martina Nick Offerman Seattle deb Lilly Chan Chan La Youtube Jamie DEB Amaya
GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 200: Devs Ex Dredd

GSMC Movie Podcast

1:09:57 hr | 2 months ago

GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 200: Devs Ex Dredd

"Can't decide in torn between a romantic comedy action or an Indie film to watch for the weekend. Well, well, golden state media concepts move you. PODCAST is your ultimate guide to the latest movies. Join us as we dissect the latest on the blockbusters. It's the Golden State media concept's movie podcast. Hello and welcome to the GMC movie podcast brought to you. By the GMC PODCAST network I'm your host Casey bomb. Hope you're having a wonderful week a wonderful Wednesday today's August fifth. If, you'll indulge me in this opening segment I wanNA give you guys a little bit of a life update for me So you're aware of what's going on behind the scenes as far as the podcast goes I am currently planning on moving into my Philadelphia apartment, my new apartment this coming weekend I mentioned it a couple of episodes ago when I was moving some of my stuff but now I am officially moving in. So because of that, there is not going to be an episode from me this coming Sunday while moving everything in I will be back next week. So we'll only be missing one episode you don't have to worry. But I would recommend. You feel like you're missing out on something that weekend and you aren't already to go listen to some of sugar and elizabeth's episodes. They are excellent. They're very smart and have some very entertaining opinions. I would also like to say because of the fact that I'm moving, there's a lot of dust flying around my place, which means my allergies are really acting up right now clue pretty severe sore throat. So I'm going to be working through the pain right now but I may not be quite as enthusiastic as I normally am for these episodes I'm hoping that it only lasts a couple of days once finished moving in. So hopefully by next week will be fine. But right now. Definitely feel a little under the weather. This is a pretty common occurrence for me. So I'm very confident that it is not cove nineteen. I know that it's still a genuine concern monitoring things, but I'm also taking the necessary safety precaution. So I'm pretty confident that it is not that. And I hope that you guys are taking the safety precautions as well. Staying healthy, staying happy staying safe and I hope that I can provide some sort of distraction or entertainment for you guys during this really chaotic time and some of that distraction will maybe include today's episode. So let's get into what today's episode is. I'm very excited. It's a pretty different episode. I. Know I say that fairly often but I just try to keep things diversity every episode to be a little bit different. So this episode is going to focus primarily on one filmmaker. His name is garlic. He's one of my favorite filmmakers working today Um and the first movie I'm talking about the newer film is actually not even really a film so I was contemplating whether or not to talk about this, but I was really interested in it earlier on in quarantine. And it's a miniseries. But many series really kinda tip toe the line between film and Television. And this one definitely lies kind of in the world of film particularly because Alex Garland is the writer director Creator and so I thought it would still very fitting to talk about this. It's really really highly recommend it definitely serves its narrative in terms of pretty pretty concise film Arc even though it is roughly eight hours long just a really long movie if you want to think about it that way so. that. One is a Hulu original fx joint production called devs. which I really really loved and I'll get to talk about that in my first segment. The second one, my weekly watch is a first time watch for me and it's one of Alex Jones writing credits. He did not direct the films with one of his earlier movies, but it's called dread a remake of judge dredd from the nineties with Silvester. Stallone and then my weekly recommendation if you are in tune to any of the stuff that I tend to like and are in tune to who Alex Garland is, you may expect this recommendation, but it is x Makia. It is one of my favorite films of all. Time. One of Eight, twenty four is most popular films at the time of its release It's a movie that I, really really adore and I can't wait to recommend it to you guys in the final segment. Two episodes ago, right a two episodes ago. I talked about some of the stuff that was that had happened in July in terms of the film industry and I want to kind of do that again except instead of looking back I'm going to be looking forward. So I know because covid nineteen has sort of messed everything up. You may be confused about what movies are still slated to come into theaters given the theaters aren't even open yet, and honestly I'm pretty confused to you may be in the same boat as me as a lot of movies that were plan this year that have now been rescheduled to twenty twenty one. So I'm going to go over the list of big blockbuster movies, just major major motion pictures that are still slated to come out in twenty twenty. So within the next couple months basically and I'll give you some of my thoughts and maybe some extra information that I that I happen to have. Just you guys know what is potentially coming out that obviously is subject to change given everything that is going on but maybe not hopefully, we'll get to see those movies this year. So that's Today's episode I'm really really excited about it. I'm really hype stock about Alex Garland one of my favorite creators. So let's get it started. All right. So deaths is a mini series eight episode Mini Series on Hulu. Exclusive. To Hulu, it's a venture between Hulu fx after Disney bought Fox in they own a large stake in Hulu. It was fairly inevitable that something like this was gonna happen but all of fx is library is now on Hulu and they are coming up with some exclusive television shows. This one is created written and directed by House. Garland it stars SONOMA'S UNO Nick. Offerman Jin Ha at Alison pill. And the official sort of synopsis of the show is a computer engineer investigates the Secretive Development Division in her company, which she believes is behind the disappearance of her boyfriend. So right off the bat pretty darn intriguing premise. I was super excited about this one because for a long time. I've considered to be my favorite television network and also just the one that is coming out with consistently the best television that's not sort of a paid for. Subscription service like HBO maybe this one kind of negates that given that it's a Hulu exclusive but regardless, I think the show is phenomenal. It came out a episode by episode. So it did it wasn't like a binge-watching did come out weekly. Back in March April. So this is one of the ones that I that I watched weekly that I was very excited about kind of kept me going to the early days of quarantine. I know had said earlier it's a little bit odd to be talking about a technical television series in a movie podcast but a lot of times miniseries our television in general right now is definitely moving to a more cinematic look and feel really focused on trying to emulate film because of the fact that you can kind of do that. Now, you a lot of productions have that budget and miniseries series in particular are focused on creating one narrative arc much like a film just has to be a lot longer and there is sort of the confines of of episodic television but if. You look at it in a in a narrative structure of the entire arc because it's not focused as much on the individual episodes and more of the entire series arc You can definitely look at it in terms of story structure in the same way that you would look at a film. So I, definitely consider this one pretty much a long film I. Know I log a lot of my films onto letter boxed could explain that at some point if anybody is interested but I know a lot of film people are you know what it is? It's a social media service that. You get to kind of talk about movies, log, the movies that you watch, ranked them and whatnot, and so this one is appears on that service. So a lot of miniseries definitely do that. and. This is no exception. So I adored this series I loved it. I think it is a phenomenal just concise narrative I think everybody in it today fantastic job I. think this is one of. Alex Garland's crowning achievements. I've liked almost everything that he does. X. Mock a far and away is my favorite I. Don't think this tops that by any means, but I would probably put this in contention for maybe number two I did really like Nice. But this one really has a very clear philosophy of. A really original creative ideas and indefinitely creative how they're conveyed. So we're GONNA start with the screen play and so the screenplay every episode. Really. Keeps it secrets secret for as long as possible, which I thought was really really smart because this is kind of a Scifi drama because Alex likes to work in terms of in in the confines of sci-fi. So that was definitely to be expected but in the benefits of having episodic television is that you can have an overarching narrative and you can leave a lot of questions unanswered for a very long time and so that definitely comes into play here. There's a lot of secrets, a lot of twists and turns, and they're ones that are hinted at almost overtly shown to you very early on at least the. Environment or philosophy behind them might be shown early on but the context of everything you may not be fully aware until the very end if at all and so I think that the reveals come at the Right Times there tends to be a couple. The tends to be one big reveal per episode, but there's also just a couple mini reveals it be character dynamics or whatnot different different things that the the company may be working on because it does take place at like a tech. Company, it definitely reminds me of a facebook Google type. Company that runs a lot of different things and just has a lot of different programmers and a lot of different researchers doing different things in the same. And I think that's somewhat it's modeled after. I also think that because of the fact that the reveals come at right. Times there is a very steady rise in tension there. It definitely is a slowly paced show But regardless the later on the series gets the more exciting gets and obviously that you want from something like this, that is somewhat of a psychological thriller inspired show or movie and the fact that that comes into play is obviously something that is a positive. So I would like to point that out. I also think the most. Compelling Part of this show. Is the characters and how they're written. The characters are fantastic because this is a premise that can get somewhat convoluted somewhat difficult to understand at times but you never really lose any understanding of what the motivation of any of the characters are. Once they're laid out for you and that goes both along with how the screenplay is laid out, and also the acting which will get into in just a second I. think my favorite part of this show by far is the villain who is the he's sort of villain he's definitely falls into the role more of antagonised. So not necessarily an ARC typical villain. But definitely a foil to the main character and that is forest played by Nick Offerman. He is a he's the head of this company. So think Mark Zuckerberg Elon Musk, that type of. That type of. Businessman who owns this giant tech conglomerate and so He plays a very shielded character who we get to see we don't have to see the entire series of the eyes of the lead, which is really nice. I'm glad that that's the case as we really get to see some moments with forest alone or with somebody who may not be a main character. And when he lets his shield down. Is just a moment in the story that really shines through because of the fact that he has his shield up almost all of the time and really. A sympathetic villain even though he is. I hesitate to say evil because of the way it's written it's so nuanced. But definitely somebody who has some pretty malice Intentions. Or just just malicious events that he creates. Just based solely based on his philosophy of the world. And so we we really are not we I didn't make this show Alex Garland, and the team really creates this villain who you feel for even more. So than most I would say I think that he really falls into a category of his own and he's definitely my favorite film antagonised from this year. All of the characters though are very complex and that definitely comes. Is. Made very apparent by all the actors just the actors in this show. Are Fantastic. So Nick Offerman and Alison pill both have gotten their time in the limelight. They're time to shine I mentioned Nick Offerman earlier. So I do WanNa talk about him. Right now as far as acting goes, it's I don't think I've ever really seen his dramatic chops because obviously he is known for parks and recreation. which is a comedy and he plays a very dry, very monotone character in that show, but it definitely is a comedic role. And here we get to see a very dramatic role that is. Really really layered with a lot of different types of performances. So he has to play the boss character. He plays a very emotionally driven character for much of the show. He definitely has those moments that that show his. Anger or resentment to the world or other characters that create the villain status that he has. So he is fantastic by far one of my favorite parts of the show and. An unexpected pick for this role that really really paid off I also, really happy. That's annoying. Mizuno got the chance to play a lead role here because she has been in a lot of films that you probably know about. But just has never really gotten the chance to. Play a lead. So she's very often been background character. She is next mocking in a non speaking role. She's in La La land as a dancer. She does Mo cap for a lot of films including nine elation. She was a doctor in Maniac. So she has been in lots and lots of projects and finally getting to actually see her face. And hear her talk and actually, act, will occur. That's probably That may be offensive to a lot of. Types of actors. So see her act in a much more Pivotal plot a pivotal role to the story. So she is the lead in this series and given that I had never seen her act in this type of a role before I didn't even know it was her for a lot of it and. She also has a very layered performance that is pretty much the. So her and Nick offerman characters are foils to each other and so. Getting to see how her motivations play out and how she responds to things in a different way. Nick Offerman that is also somewhat emotionally driven given her. Background as Coder as a mathematician, she is much more Somewhat Deadpan, but just much more analytical logical, and that's how she approaches a lot of these situations and the moments where she may be a rash or spontaneous come from different events in the series. So getting to see the the layers of that performance through her was phenomenal I. Think she really really killed it in this role. I also like how almost everybody in the show including those two lead actors have a similar type performance that goes that will is a credit to the directing, but it's also just a credit to the acting and how strong it is A lot of the show is. Portrayed in a very calm flat monotone way. There are obviously lots and lots of moments that are higher in emotion but I think the thing that stands out is how often there are moments of just these very plain almost vacant performances that create an ominous tone and definitely translate to the story being much more focused on A logical none maybe not you could argue this. Like a non creative type of brain that is putting the performance forward. So I really liked it that is a steady sort of umbrella across the entire film but. I think the acting here is is really excellent because it's hard to make that. So compelling and the entire show is compelling and that has to do both of the acting and the screenplay. Moving onto the production design there's very distinct. Color Palette through this entire. Series and that's a pretty original color for for film. There aren't a lot of films that focus on that color both in the color grading and in the production design, the set decoration. So, seeing that shine through. So strongly, and so consistently I thought was a really excellent point for the production design and I also really like how many of the sets here are fairly simple in in structure. So just a lot of geometric shapes is a lot of squares lot of empty space. So a lot of the apartments are fairly vacant the office spaces are very open. And Very. Plain almost, and so I think that the simplicity of the set makes room for the complexity of the story, which is something that I referenced in a previous film that I've talked about I forget which one that was but. It's definitely very apparent here and the sets just feel very empty and very open which I think kind of adds to the the tone of. Isolation and loneliness, which is definitely something that I resonated with. When I watched the show I'm sure many of you have recently as well, and so I just really thought that that was a very strong. Emphasis that the set decoration set had that I really really liked and definitely benefited the show. But even though there's this distinct color Palette that's focused on the color yellow, a lot of the lighting is still very dynamic and fairly diverse. So there's a lot of different sort of monochromatic. Getting a lot of primary colors that create these. Very Vibrant Rainbow esque moments and then the moments that are yellow are accented with with the lighting. Everything is Very A. Strong. That plays into how well the cinematography gets to capture everything I also think that there's a lot of creative imagery both in the set and this Matafi. So the way. A lot of nontraditional moments are framed. So there's A. Statue in this film, that is a large toddler that is ominous and very creepy and I CGI. But even still the way that it's captured, the way that it's lit up in different scenes is very strong and I think that that is just an example, a much larger example of how that translates to the rest of the film and the rest of the series accusing film series interchangeably because it really does feel like one coherent project. I think that the editing was also very strong because it's hard to keep a consistent pace in a mini series because you have spread out across. So many episodes of because those reveals happen So frequently there were just they're hidden so often and then you get the big moments of reveal. The editing keeps that mystery intact There tends to be some really excellent cliffhangers to accent each episode which I really enjoyed. I also think the use of montage in the beginning of a lot of episodes is fairly abstract. It draws a lot from guard and experimental film which I thought was really really great for a fairly mainstream television show that kind of just is more focused on conveying its themes and messages than an actual story in that moment in the cold open of the show many times it also never lingers on scene too long. Every scene is fairly long. But it's pace very consistently through the dialogue and through the editing and so no seen feels like it overstays its welcome I'm I was always enthralled always drawn in from that scene and so I think that it really cuts off of the Times. At the exact right time when you feel as though the scene has had its conclusive narrative arc. So. That pacing is very, very thoughtful. The sound here is very abrasive, very intense and very in your face and I loved it when I first heard the score, it's so unique. and. So unexpected for the type of drama that I was hearing I honestly can't pick out what instrument is if you've seen the pilot or seen the show, you'll know kind of what I'm talking about. It's almost like a I can't tell if it's a bell or a horn like it's just a very loud high pitched score. But it works so well to draw attention to himself and draw attention to the moments that should be kicked in this feeling of. Sort of unease, and so I think that the the score is phenomenal. So all of this is obviously A. Of reflection of the directing, so Alex Garland just has a very clear philosophy and message in mind that he wants to convey focused on human interaction and technology and the intersection of the two I also, really like here how it's sort of a companion piece to X. Makia a little bit of a spoiler. So I will say skip ahead about two minutes. If you don't want any spoilers, it's not actually a narrative spoiler it's just that I found. that. I really. WanNa talk about because I'm not gonNA. Talk about it with everybody. So I love x Makina and there's a reveal in. So he had said for a long time. This was kind of a companion piece to and narrated narrowly definitely is or thematically it is narrowly not necessarily they don't seem to exist in the same world. But in the final episode. Nicole from characters talking to lily, there are lead and he says it's deb's but actually devs. The is a Roman numerals and or a Roman character which actually translates more closely to a you. So it would be day oaths and if you know the phrase day sex, Makina they're paired together and when he said that I kind of lost my mind, I was like Oh. Oh, my God they're very linked. This is awesome. So I said, that was a really excellent excellent part of the show that I really liked. So I think that the series is phenomenal. If you're in the mood for Scifi or drama or just something somewhat intense I would definitely recommend this one. It is a very heavy show very focused on his philosophy very thoughtful but I that's not turn off. The, if that's a major major benefit for me I, think it's very fun to think about fun to talk about. So I loved devs. I think it's my favorite. Series type thing that I've watched this year. So I'm going to give this one a strong nine out of ten I thought it was. Insanely. Excellent I. Love. Alex. Garland and I'm just so excited to see what he comes up with next given that he has hit it out of the park. So strongly in his really in his recent project. So that's deb's. I'll now actually get onto some film films. So the next one will be talking about is dread from twenty thirteen, which is an Alex garland written film, a remake of judge dredd. Then I'll be talking about my recommendation which is mocking up from Twenty fifteen, and finally I'm going to give some thoughts and feelings around the films that are coming out later on in this year in theaters. So that's the episode but right now we're gonNA take a quick break. The latest and hottest music hitting the airwaves don't be left out listened to the golden state media concepts. Music podcasts keeps you on the loop with everything you need to know from pop rock hiphop top floor, and we'll throw in lieu of your favorite artists concert in tour dates and so much more listed. No further. This is the gold. Standard. In music hard caps. All right. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast. I'm your host Casey bomb. If you're just tuning in or skipping around a little bit I've just given my review of devs the recent WHO fx production? I'll now we talking about dredd a film from two, thousand, twelve, twenty, thirteen, earlier wrong twelve. Then I'll be talking about my weekly recommendation, which is x Makia and finally you talking about the film that are still slated to come out later this year. So dread first time watch for me. It's been my list for a very long time. It base it's a remake of film from the ninety s sort of a cult classic starring Sylvester. Stallone but it's basically follows a police officer who in this futuristic kind of apocalyptic reality has the ability to act as judge jury and executioner. They're called judges and he takes on a new recruit as they try and take down a gang, a gang leader who is the manufacturer of a new drug taking over the city called slow Mo.. So. I did not quite enjoy this movie as much as I wanted to I thought that definitely has some interesting moments. The aesthetic was very, very strong and I think the film overall is still fairly strong movie. But there was definitely something lacking here for me So I just WanNa League guys know that up front and I think. where it lacks the most is the screenplay. Starting with the positives I, do think the screenplay overall is fairly tight. So. It's basically a bottle premise i. know many of you may know this, but a bottle premise is basically when a film or television episode takes place all in one location. And the story kind of follows the ARC that would take place more focused on the characters in this location. So this one takes place in a large mega structure that is much much much much larger and larger. than skyscrapers in this apocalyptic future can hold basically an entire city. I think they mentioned in this one the IT holds seventy, five thousand people in a vertical structure. Because, all of the land has been decimated so. I think it's fairly tight and knows what it wants to do. It's about an hour thirty it all kind of exists in this one location and I think that's definitely an interesting way to tell the story. I also the world building is pretty solid. There's a little bit of voice over. Narrative in the beginning and somewhat towards the end that can sometimes be deemed as a little lazy I. Don't think he's lazy here only because the world building is so strong in the visual aesthetic and then you you get told. Just precisely what you need to know you don't get told anything that. Would would further complicate things and a lot of the world building sort of left up to the imagination? Based on what we've been told or been shown. So I like that it's not necessarily throwing everything in our face here. It really trusts audience to understand the world that we're living in the characters that are experiencing it. We're the screenplay lacks for me though. Is that this is a very Any. Apocalyptic future that is focused primarily on the state or the government that now runs. This world is inherently GONNA be political n even if it wasn't political, every film has a message or an agenda that is trying to get across, and in this one, it just doesn't seem to have a clear message or a clear meaning. It gets very close to one many many times. And especially a film about violence and the police in this context. Serving as People who can execute people on the spot. It. If there is any message. And I'm sure that there is it's very, very subtle and I think the moments that that message should shine through should be highlighted a lot more because many times it just seems as though it's An. Objective view of everything and there is really no internal conflict and any internal conflict should be interpreted by the viewer and nothing is really laid out in a positive or negative light and it just doesn't feel like this movie has much to say. which is fairly disappointing for a movie of this caliber and for a movie of this. Topic and this theme I definitely would have light for it to be focused a lot more on the message than it ended up being. So that's my main gripe with the film because a lot of the other aspects of it are actually very, very great. So Karl urban plays are lead dread and his acting in. This is superb I. Think the thing that stands out the most about it is that you never see his eyes we as mask on the whole time, and so you really only see his mouth and his mouth the entire time has this like. Extremely intense scowl and if you try on your own to make a scowl, look good, it's very difficult and he nails it and it's almost comical in the way that it appears on screen but it so fits his character. And it just so fits the intensity of everything and just the larger than life nature of a lot of things that are happening. So I really liked that touch I. think he was really great. I think all of the characters here are excellent I did particularly particularly like Olivia thirdly, Serb leave therby. Thirlby Okay I put the ellen the wrong place. Who I had previously seen in Juneau but not much else. She is not well, she's one of the leads. So obviously, it's dread. So as the titular character, but she is kind of the pseudo lead I definitely find her character more interesting I think the character has more to say in this film. And we actually get to see a lot more of the the layered performance here and I think all the performances are good. Particularly hers an Lena Heavies Mama because you can kind of see the internal conflict here I. Don't know if that's just me try to fill in gaps at the screenplay was not able to convey Or if that was. Directing that was sort of portrayed that way. But a lot of it feels like it was a choice of the actors to portray a lot of these nuances and a lot of this internal conflict. So. It really gives you a sense of inner depth that is lacking. Pretty bluntly in the screenplay at least on a I watch. The production design here is very strong. so any apocalyptic world has to set itself apart. It's a genre that is fairly exhausted at this point and a lot of them are fairly monotonous and fairly similar. So this one definitely, very clear aesthetic I really like it's focus on PUNK rock aesthetic. So influenced somewhat by steam punk but overall, it kind of takes the the heavy metal aesthetic and puts that into the real world I love the design of the helmets. It's a little bit of sort of a new age interpretation of the old design of the helmets. I think they looked great All of the costuming is very visually appealing all of the design design feels very coherent to everything else that's going on. It just feels all very messy dirty. which definitely fits that aesthetic of sort of the heavy metal punk rock that was very smart choice to take here that is fairly original I would say. or at least original in the sense of like how heavy it is a lot of other apocalyptic series it is sort of. Influences all of the design and the characters. Bahir is definitely, very, very apparent which I think is a smart choice to go with the cinematography. I thought was also fairly strong. There weren't any majorly clear choices. In just sort of the basic cinematography. So it isn't that bottle. Premise. So it's basically these two characters working their way up this mega structure to to the boss Mama and. If anything I would have liked to see some longer takes. See? Some. Just long takes action that would focus more on the actual hand to hand combat. Or Gun to gun combat It's a very similar design as the raid which is very popular action film that is a similar structure as far as just like a work your way up moving very video game ask and that one focus a lot of takes and a lot of hand hand combat. So here's a lot more guns but even still Fairly strong I do like that the slow Mo, the drug actually does create everything in slow motion. It makes for some really interesting action set pieces. That, we may not get to see the action as much because of the fact that just Guns are not nearly as dynamic for film as a lot of other forms of action and fighting styles, and so getting to actually see it slow motion is really nice. I also just think the over saturation of colors and sort of the sparkle put on. It is a really nice touch. Definitely, fits into a basically a Sort of the antithesis of the world that we're in right now. So I do really like it everything else works in a gray dark color. Palette. But because of the intensity and darkness of the story, I think that really really works here. So I said that the slow motion as kind of moving onto editing the Slo Mo adds to those action set pieces because I really just think gun violence is really difficult to capture. In a compelling interesting way. I'm much more interested in seeing hand to hand because. It takes a lot more effort. It's it's more dynamic so. The fact that most of here, most of this is gun based is not quite an interesting. There are still some interesting moments. Some some pretty solid kills some solid Gore moments if you're into that. So? I like how the slow mo sort of makes those guns scenes more dynamic but that doesn't happen all the time. So when it's not there, I just feel like those moments are somewhat lacking. It referencing the Gore though. It has in a movie like this. I actually would've wanted it to go a little bit heavier with the Gore. Because obviously, it's are rated its focus a lot on actions focus on really the brutality and violence of this world and so there are a lot of moments where it is almost really really violent. There are some fairly violent moments of course but if you're into that sort of thing I don't think this would really even scratch the surface of some of the more intense score in violence and there are some moments that I think really could have had some more creative. How just by morbid this some more creative deaths more creative. Just, Practical Effects Gore. There are some really great moments here but I. Think Pulls back on some of those moments. So it's not like too intense and I would have liked to push that aesthetic even further. Because of how heavy they're going with that punk rock look but they're also going with a punk rock sound so. The scores very influenced by heavy metal and Punk Rock, and so that's very apparent it really fits here. I think it's just obviously very cohesive. The sound design on the violence is also very strong. Nothing really feels silly or out of place. A movie like this that is really focused on being edgy I think the silliness would definitely take take away from it. There are some sort of like cheesy lines that I think work pretty well here but. Anything that would take you out of the intensity and edginess of the actual Gore and violence I think probably would have. Prohibited it a from from being what it is, and so I'm glad the sound design is so strong it's very loud very intense. So I really liked that. So kind of moving onto the directing. Overall. There's really no dissonance here. Everything is very cohesive. And is a very strong aesthetic I just wish that the message was a little bit stronger. I, would have wanted it to be saying something a little bit stronger overall. I think any of that message is watered down by some how everything plays out things are framed Maybe on a couple of watches it's just really subtle and I missed it on that first one because I do think that there's a message. And themes that you can draw from this. But there are some moments particularly towards the end where really would have wished something would have moved a little bit differently or or resulted in a different. Results. So as to kind of change how these themes and messages are framed, but that's just me I would have liked that to be a little more apparent. So that's the kind of major turnoff here for me. So I'M GONNA give this film a strong six to off seven just because I think that's a pretty big glaring issue. Because it's Kinda just a mindless or. Visually aesthetic action movie when it doesn't have sort of that political or social commentary. So that's dread. That's my opinion. I. Still would recommend seeing it i. do think it's fun intense action movie if you're into that sort of thing. So. Now, we're going to move on to my weekly recommendation, which is ex Makia, another garland film, and then stay tuned for the final segment where I talk about the upcoming films that are still slated to get released in twenty twenty and some of my thoughts and feelings on them. But right now, we're going to take another quick break. Tired of searching the vast jungle of podcasts now listen. And hear this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching. The golden state media concepts podcast network is here nothing less than podcast blitz with endless hours of podcast Harvard's. From. Sports music fashion looking entertainment fantasy football, and so much more. So stop. And go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to build that podcast is. Whatever it may be visit. WWW DOT GS MC podcast dot com follow us on facebook and twitter and download on itunes soundcloud and Google play. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast. I'm your host. Casey bomb. If you're just doing inner skipping around a little bit I've given my review of devs as well as my review of dread, and now I'll be giving my weekly recommendation, which is x Makina and the final segment stay tuned where I talk about my most anticipated films that are still slated to come out in twenty twenty and just overall getting released. So this one is mocking, I'm sure many of you have heard of it It is one of my favorite films of all time another Alex Garland film I think it's his first, his first major directorial debut Yeah. This is the first the first big. Producer director. Yeah it's direct royal debut Is a phenomenal debut right out the gate but it basically follows caleb who is a programmer at a tech company who wins a companywide contest to meet the secluded CEO Nathan as he attempts to create the world's first high functioning AI and enlist caleb in a sort of turing test to determine whether the AI works. So it's a very. Simply, laid out sci fi premise stars a lot of Alex Garland. Including Domino gleason who was in dread and synovium. Endeavors but then also employs Oscar Isaac and Alicia the candor to at least can't replace the the AI mentioned before Eva and Oscar Isaac please Nathan. So the cast is very small. Obviously a few others, but that's just sort of the the core cast that. Exist in the majority of the film. And it's also because it's somewhat of a simple premise the themes and morales are very morale morality. Yeah. Is Very. Clearly laid out here on as really supposed to be a character exploration in in response to that theme. So the screenplay here is super strong It's really focused on showing not. A It really tries to get its message across in as few words as possible. This is made very apparent if you look at the script, the opening scene with Caleb riding in the helicopter with just sort of the helicopter pilot to fly over Nathan's estate. In the original skirts is about two pages of exposition dialogue, and then in the final film, it's basically two lines that get the exact point across in anything that's missed is portrayed in either this scene prior the scene later So everything here is really focused on getting. The most efficient of Bang. For its buck as far as dialogue goes which I think is how most films should function and here it works extremely well, and everything else is somewhat dialogue heavy between characters because it's really a character piece very theatrical in that way And every character a very strong. Sense of motivations and moral compass, and they're very different from each other and watching all three of them. Sort of manipulate each other in their own sort of social ways to gain what they want. A gain is very interesting because of how clearly it's laid out the screenplay and through the acting Also, just kind of my favorite aspect of this is that it's basically a modern day retelling Frankenstein which I think is awesome. A kind of it's one of those things that if Frankenstein was not in the public domain. And Mary Shelley's estate sued ex Maybe you could prove that it's not based on Frankenstein but given US public domain. You don't really have to worry about that. It is pretty apparent This is kind of a modern day retelling and really similar more morality themes here message being conveyed or focused on what makes a person a person the idea of monsters just philosophy and. Existentialism in general. So that's very apparent in here which is pretty reflective of the original Frankenstein story too which I think is really fascinating. The acting here is absolutely wonderful. It's a knockout performance from all three of these main characters You can kind of watch this film many many times and notice something different in all of their performances because of how you know the stories progressing and you can see sort of the minor nuances of how these characters are really manipulating each other in a social sense, and so all of these performances are really focused on those small moments between each other and so the relationships and the chemistry are really at its best in this film similar to devs the design and the production design the Meson. San Is very simple it's also fairly not empty just very like. Very vacant, which is a similar idea that's getting conveyed as devs. But in here, it's also very sleek and very modern, which is fairly reflective of. Modern Day aesthetic and sort of the reflection of that on technology. because. That's sort of the technology a lot of. Cellphones smartphones new laptops focus on having that very sleek modern look. which creates sort of this kind of off pudding sense of. Or just very isolating non-human very just cold feeling throughout the entire film It's really off putting in in the best way. Possible. The design of Eva to is excellent. It's really The perfect integration of technology. And Human Human Hood Humanity It really just shows the bare minimum that you need to see to really distinguish them as a person, and then everything else just looks really really excellent. I mean the visual effects here won an Oscar when it was nominated against like star wars and marvel. So the via affects and the design overall is really excellent and just adds so much to the movie. The cinematography here too I really like because it's so focused on its themes in its message, the juxtaposition between sort of this sleek coal aesthetic of technology and the natural landscapes around them. And just sort of the idea of. Creation and humanity and naturalism and so. Pairing these two in visual sense and not making that super overt I think is a really genius way to get some of these messages across. And then as far as capturing just the human moments here because the whole film is centered on the relationships in the chemistry between these characters. The camera really lingers on reactions. A lot of the time scenes tend to end far after dialogue has ended and it's focusing on the facial expressions, and just the the inner monologue of specific characters. It was really focused on the reaction of things many times characters are shown when they're not speaking and characters who are speaking aren't even shown. It's more focused on the character listening, which I think is a really. Fascinating tool used from from the camera of and ends up creating a very reflective cinematography like Palette. So, going back a little bit of in terms of the editing with Abbas design. The effects integration here is flawless like there really is no uncanny valley there's no apparent sort of. Abnormality with with the visual effects and the CGI and the actual Real physical things on the set. So it definitely makes sense that it. best visual effects here. So it's just a flawless seamless sort of integration of those two two mediums. I also think that the editing is really excellent similar to devs that it really the editing, the pacing speeds up pretty pretty distinctly by the time we get to about forty five minutes left the the narrative ramps up in a thriller way. And so the pacing the editing ramps up with it, which you wouldn't be able to have that narrative ramp of you didn't have the editing reflecting that. So I think that's obviously very important. Comparing this to its companion piece devs the score here is much softer. It's much less in your face is much more focused on sort of blending into the background which I think definitely kind of goes along with a lot of the aspects of the film, and it also just is really beautiful it's focused on these high pitched chimes which I think is. Sort of sub consciously Reflection of almost femininity edges it's very light and very airy. I think is supposed to this is mainly focused on the EVA theme. An Eva obviously uses her femininity pretty clearly. Pretty overtly in this movie, and so I think having the score reflect that is really important to establish some of these gender dynamics that are not quite as a parent for the message of the movie, but you can definitely notice the. Rejection of the critique of masculinity in the two main cared may human characters and then how manipulated by a character who is very, very much not using masculine traits. So I think that's really interesting and it's kind of reflected here in the score. Alex Garland just really has a strong I for sci-fi. Very strong sense of a message and a theme and I think Sifi a lot of times is where that is conveyed the most as A. Because it's so focused on how humanity can progress. In the future, the fact that you're you linger and focus on different philosophical ideas and themes is sort of inevitable for the genre and I think he works so well in this genre and you really get a sense of conclusion even though he doesn't answer every question which I think is really nice because you really feel. The ending of the film it doesn't feel like it's out of place It doesn't feel like it's abrupt but then because of the fact leaders such big ideas, he can't answer them. Obviously, he has some ideas of them, but most of them should be interpreted by the audience. So I think he's a very strong sense of all that and it really comes into play the most in this film. So I love Xmas I've seen it many many times it is. Free On. NETFLIX's right now. So I strongly recommend you watch it. I think it's in my top like. Ten top five. I saw it as eaters with no context to what it was, and it just blew me on the water. So I love this film. I'm going to give this one a solid ten out of ten. So go check out X. Mark could not recommend it highly enough and just. Just check out a lot of Alex garland stuff. I. Think he dread maybe not my favorite but overall he tends to hit on most of his projects so. Those are my reviews of devs dread and x mocking up, and now make sure you stay tuned for the final segment where I talk about the upcoming films with twenty twenty that are still slated to be released and then just my thoughts and feelings around them. So stated that where we take our final break. TV has changed over time streaming has become the new norm. That's why golden state media concepts television podcasts dives headfirst to the world of cord cutting wants to be on the lube of what's hot net foot or if it's not a preference what about original shows in Hulu we've got you covered join us as we filmed the blind and talk about movies to streep and show you should be binge. This is a golden state media concept's television podcast. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast I'm your host. Casey bomb. If you're just tuning in or skipping around a little bit I've given my reviews of devs dread and x Mocking S my favorite Alex Garland projects, and now I'm going to be running down the movies that are still slated to be released in twenty twenty I kind of didn't want to prepare for this segment. I thought it'd be fun to just to pull the list. This list is. As of today fourth. So I kind of wanted to pull it up check out movies were coming out and just some of my off the cuff initial feelings of them, what I already know about them. And I thought it'd be fairly enlightening both for all of us because I still don't really know what movies are slated to come out. And if you if you guys want to know which ones are still potentially come theaters, this is the list for you because theaters right now aren't even open. So this is obviously subject to change but as of August fourth, this is what's coming out and the date of they're coming out. So I up on this list is Milan this one was slated for March twenty twenty and it got moved a bunch it moved to August and now a sort of unspecified. As to win, it's GonNa come to theaters, but it's mainly focused on the US and Chinese market for this film. That's where it's going to get most of its money. So obviously wants to have most of those two countries reopened. And Right. Now that obviously is not the case I have seen though that it is supposed to come the Disney plus September fourth. I believe. Is the fourth of first. But it's for rent for like thirty dollars. So that's not necessarily a viable option for lots of people. But. Hopefully, that will be coming to theaters when theaters do reopen. Next on this list is the French dispatch, which was originally slated for July twenty twenty and has now just been moved indefinitely unknown. It's GONNA come out. That is wes Anderson's newest project. Is it kind of has a? With a lot of. Raw Anderson Movies has a star studded cast got Timothy Shalah may bill Murray short-sea Ronin until the Swin Francis mcdormand. Lots and lots of people in that cast. So that's one that I'm fairly interested in. I am a western Fan I wouldn't call myself a big Wes Anderson Fan, I haven't seen a lot of his early stuff I have enjoyed almost all the movies that I've seen from it I think is a very, very strong visual, stick I really like him and so I'm definitely interested to see what this movie is but right now we don't know what's GonNa come out. Next up on this list is Antebellum, which is a horror movie strange anelle Monet It was originally said for twenty I. It's now supposed to come out August twenty first. So hopefully, that will still come out as long as theaters open. It might be one of those movies that theaters kind of run with as their first major release. I'm definitely very interested in this movie so it's produced by Jordan Peele. And is a racially charged horror film that sort of focused on modern day women kind of grappling with the. Generational trauma of slavery. In the United States, it's definitely a very timely film for some of the events happening right now. I'm very intrigued by I think that there's a couple movies recently that are. Focused on the black experience in sort of a horror format, which is similar to at least kind of takes influence from Afro Surrealism, which I had talked about in. About. A month ago. So I'm very intrigued by this movie I do hope that it still comes out and if it does, it'll be all August twenty first. Another movie for August twenty first is called Tesla where Ethan Hawke plays the inventor Nikola Tesla. And that one did very well at Sundance, I don't know a lot else about this film. But I do know that it is currently slated to come out video on demand. I think as long as theatres reopen it'll still try and get a limited theatrical release on August. Twenty, first. Next up is tenant the just sort of infamous release date film because Christopher Nolan is not somebody that is going to sacrifice his film for video on demand. So this one was originally supposed to come out in July. Then it got moved back to different days in August and right now it is going to be released internationally on August twenty sixth and it'll be in select US cities next coming weekend. So that's obviously barring the opening of certain theaters this something that AMC in particular with theaters. In general, we're kind of focusing on this film being its major first major release once they reopened. Maybe because of the fact that Christopher Nolan a big blockbusters. And there weren't a lot of other films that sort of fit that bill sort of when when theater planning on reopening. So I would definitely expect to see this film this year because I I mean personally. This is sort of early August speculation and maybe I will have egg on my face later on. But I don't think theaters will stay closed for the entirety of this year I. Just ultimately don't think that they can. They can financially handle that whether or not cases go up or down I think they're going to reopen sometime around September and I do expect to see this film in Theaters in twenty twenty. Next up baby got new mutants the movie that I kind of laughed at two weeks or a week ago definitely still find it Kinda humorous about how many times this film has gotten delayed originally slated for twenty, seventeen, twenty eighteen, and now it is August twenty twenty and it is still getting delayed for like the sixth or seventh time. So right now it's slated for August twenty eighth There's another film that I expect to be seeing in twenty. Twenty I also wouldn't be surprised if this one gets a Disney plus release because of the fact that it's not currently a part of the MC you I will say that one of my sort of conspiracy theories is that this one might be integrated into the MC you because of the fact that it's young kids being mutants, you could easily run with some of these characters being some of the new X. men for the marvel cinematic universe but that's All speculation don't take any of that as any fact just me but because the fact that is not currently an MC fill and Fox doesn't really exist anymore and Disney's not the one that pumped a bunch of money into making this movie I would not be surprised if this one gets released. A Home, Video Disney plus free. So otherwise, it'll get released on August twenty eighth in theaters. As long as theaters are open I'm GonNa stop saying that we know that as long as leaders are open but this one I would definitely expect to see this year. So the next one is an example of a lot of other films that are coming out that are slated for a certain date and if theaters are open, they'll be coming out in theaters otherwise they will definitely be coming out video on demand. So this one is bill and Ted's face the music which is slated for September first This party has been in the works for a couple of years. Now, it is a curious premise. I'm definitely a little bit intrigued by it not something that I expect to be all that. All that solid of a movie I think it'll be fun kind of enjoyable popcorn flick, which is why I would hope that it's a theatrical release but regardless, it'll get released on September first. All right now, we're getting into some other heavy hitters This one is the Kingsman, which is a spin off slash prequel of the kingsman series So this one is like the kings mailings not kingsman so it's supposed to be the origin of the Secret Society of the kingsman. And it was slated for earlier this year it was mainly I think it was supposed to come out like March, April and then obviously pushed. So now it is slated for September eighteenth. This is something that I'm definitely very intrigued by because of the fact that kings a lot of films is end up getting like mindless sequels. Mindless spinoff kind don't have anything to do with the source material or just don't have that same tone I think there's a really interesting route to take it. There's so many different world war one movies coming outright or have come out in the past couple of years and I think this is definitely a very. Intriguing take I like that it's sort of characters that we don't even really know anything about. A new. Overall adding some context of the world of the kingsman. So I'm very curious about this film and I do think that it could be really really good Step is a very, very big heavy hitter, which is wonder woman nineteen eighty-four. A movie that I was very excited for because I. Love the I wonder woman my only main gripe was sort of the final act is a film that I would actually like to review the future. I might do it when wonder woman eighty-four comes out but What Was Originally slated for June twenty twenty. Big Summer Blockbuster DC's big release this year. Unfortunately, it got pushed back to October second but this is a movie that predates a lot of the other DC movies. So all of those. So one kind of made her debut in Batman v Superman wonder woman obviously was a Prequel to that taking place in World War One. This one is making a big time jump, but still before all that for nineteen eighty-four and it kind of has the. Sort of I think it's sort of the last leg of that eighties nostalgia in pop culture. Obviously that's always going to be there. But like the big resurgence stranger things type I, think this is sort of the last Hurrah. Of the eighties as far as pop culture thirty, your cycles go we're going to get into the nineties baby and speaking of nineties a nineteen, ninety, two remake. Of, Candyman, the horror movie is slated for October sixteenth. It was really come out in June I actually think this makes a lot of sense to come out in October as a horror movie. So definitely a big thing coming out here. It's another kind of racially charged horror movie. The folklore kind of exists in that realm that always has that's the the film from the nineties. This one is also produced. Actually written by Jordan Peele, which is very, very fascinating I. He's obviously a phenomenal writer director. So I'm very curious can't I thought it had excellent trailer. So be on the lookout for that one. Let's get a few more movies in here before I wrap this episode up another big blockbusters black widow This one is obviously a prequel kind of it's supposed to take place in between civil war an infinity war sort of black widows. Extra things. Once the avengers broke up, it's something that I'm not overly excited about only because I have never been all that intrigued by black widow as a character I, think that the writers for each film early on. In, the MC you kind of Noah, direction to go with her character and therefore she ends up getting kind of muddled and overall just somewhat uninteresting. Having Solo movie for added context is also really good but it does feel a little bit too little too late, given the events of and game still interested in seeing it. Obviously a big marvel fan. I. Also, think it feels a little bit too big of a mission. I sort of like a solo spy project at least from the trailers would have been nice to have maybe A. Smaller, spy thriller maybe more attuned to the winter soldier for this movie but I do like the visual aesthetic. I also. Very interested to see taskmaster a big. Big Marvel Comic Villain in them. See You. So that's something that I'm excited about this is another movie that I wouldn't be overly surprised if it gets released on Disney plus I don't think it's likely that it will be released on Disney plus. But if things continue on this path and movie theaters don't open or at least don't open to the capacity that marvel or Disney would want. This is one of those movies that is not super duper important at least from what I can tell to phase four of the MC you given that it's a character that won't probably exist in face for of the embassy you so. This one could probably get released on Disney plus regardless I'd be on the lookout I. Think it'll be fun movie. No matter what. So let's Let's finish this up my the last movie that I'll talk about, which is the one that I'm probably most excited for. Is Soul Pixar ours newest film that's slated for November twentieth twenty twenty, it was supposed to be June. This this coming this past June but obviously didn't happen. So here, Pixar second release of the year actually and given how surprise I was by onward this film. Is based on a real guy who worked at a school in New York City. So actually know some people who know him or know of him at the very least. So this film I think is just sort of a fun premise I like the the visual aesthetic I liked the musical score or at least the emphasis on music in this one I think it will have some really interesting existential ideas and because of the fact that I thought that onward was so good when I didn't expect it to be hopefully because I'm expecting this to be a little better, it just looks more interesting it'll be great. So that's my hope. So that's all I'm GONNA do today. Maybe I'll continue the segment later on in the year when when we have some more information on some of the movies that are coming out and maybe when we get some more trailers, but that's Today's episode. I hope that you liked it I'm sorry that I was a little bit lower energy today you know allergy season. It can get rough and I am obviously in the mindset of getting everything out of the House and then moving it to a brand new apartment. So reminded that I will not be having an episode this coming week or this coming weekend I'm not going to have one on Sunday, but I will be back obviously next Monday Wednesday. Sorry. So I will be Coming back, only missing one week and either way highly recommend listening to show and Elizabeth episodes if you are not already but. As always. Thank you for listening to the GMC movie podcast brought to GMC podcast network. I would like to ask that you please remember to subscribe to the show and write a nicer view that really helps us. Also, if you can police, follow us on facebook twitter and Instagram I have been your host Casey bomb. Thank you. And have a wonderful week. 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Free Will and Determinism in Devs | Weekly

Binge Mode

1:48:10 hr | 6 months ago

Free Will and Determinism in Devs | Weekly

"Today's episode of Binge Mode. Weekly on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by world central kitchen. Their relief teams working across America. To safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals in communities that need there now serving tens of thousands of meals daily and some of our biggest cities like New York and Los Angeles. And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh hot meals to hospitals and clinics fighting on the front lines while keeping local restaurants and businesses. As well you can directly help the heroes in hospitals and clinics were fighting for us and can help keep your local restaurants alive. Go to the ringer dot com slash W. C. K. To donate tried to raise two hundred fifty thousand dollars. And if you have the means. It is an unbelievably great and useful. 'cause really helps our hospital heroes. Emergency workers and local restaurants. Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to world central kitchen. 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Also if you're looking to spice up your work from home wardrobe and zoom in Tier Amaya meetings please head to the rigor dot com slash shop. Check out our binge mood merch. New T with Arthur Miller clap and Marilyn Monroe's cheeks man designed by Stuart himself. I know last time weekly. We enjoyed a truly lovely moggy at our chat every day. I wish we could man Jason Manziel. Guess today we're going deep deep deep deep deep deep. Deep Deep T. p. p. deep deep deep deep deep enough to fit all the Cubans you know infinitely deep on Dem's Alex Garland's fx miniseries. Sifi tech thriller as always spoiler warning. Of course we will be going deep on details from devs and we'RE GONNA dip into some of Garland's other work ex mock Anna Neilly Shannon etc and some of our other favorite stories that examine some of the themes that we will be discussing when talking about deaths so brush up on your yates because it's side to head it. Checkoffs vacuum seal. Now what am I actually doing here? I'm not going to tell you I won't need to well. We better start by offering a brief refresher on what actually happens in devs. Alex Garland's eight episodes limited series by crossing the bridge following the Halo Lights and walking down the forest path. You've got that delivery down hat buddy. Thank you love that flat all right? We are going to keep this plot summation as brief as we can because obviously we're talking about an eight hour project here. After her partner Sergei Aka is he will be known henceforth on this podcast. Mr Zoe Kravitz. Mr Zoe Kravitz. See Him in in Gaspar. Newey's love bridge not in death's after Sergei dies mysteriously shortly after taking a position in the devs Division at a Maya Lilly Chan striven to investigate with the help of her ex Jamie cybersecurity expert and I have to say. Very doting parter considering. She had previously broken his heart slice of the lemon and the cup of water. Lovely stuff one of the most brutal zone depictions ever to a visual medium. It's tough though you know they do. They can act in both reality in the biblical and then also in an eternal sense in the Sim Jae. So there's that spoiler alert share my genie. I gotta say we can do an entire podcast on whether anybody in the history of the world has ever said share my bed as a way to ask somebody to share my bed and then repeated multiple times with the help of Jamie Willie discovers that Sergei had ties to Russian intelligence the DOCO APP on his phone. Jason he hates the Tokyo. What's therefore it's there to communicate with his handlers and he never updated you think he'd be like hold on. I hate to go. Can we make it look like something else? Gradually she's drawn into a web of interlocking puzzles forest the genius behind him. Ira has been reading creative project. Powered by quantum computing called devs or. Is it called Devas Housing? A gleaming gold a futuristic enclosure devs allows users to observe any moment in the past but secretly forest and his partner. Katie have been using it to view the future as well With forests driven by the goal of reconnecting with his late daughter. Amaya who died in a car crash years earlier. Tragic stuff project. The past predict the future central to that mission is lily from viewing the future breaking the own rule and his effort Elsa devs of course forest Katie Alison pill out there crushing. It Know Lily will take an action. The Causes Depths to stop functioning as intended and yet it never occurs to them that might be because she makes a choice that derails the tramlines they keep talking about forest and Katie is it still maneuver lily to a breaking point and forest shows lily if future in which she shoots forest inside the heart of the devs facility really channeling her inner Jesse pink man yeah yeah bitch magnet instead. Despite DEB's predictions willie throws away her gun. She informed die. When the cage they're in crashes to the ground lily awakes in another reality the morning before. Sergei joined Maya there. She meets forest whose reunited with his wife and daughter. He tells her that they. Now live in an exact replica of their world. Running inside the Dev supercomputer one of the many simulated realities. They now inhabit. Do Not unplug the computer. For any reason I need to bring in the government doubt but keep the computer plug de to protect the many worlds. Make sure it stays on. It can go to screen saver but it cannot go to sleep good old lily and her choice she we do bells for all the dead people or should we not do bells because the one and the same. There's no bells in this reality. There's no bells. But there's realities where their bells man so Anton. The handler who got his neck snapped in a wheel well and can't even get fucking bells on binged mode on. He got beat up by a sixty five year. Old Man spoiler talking about this. This is Jason. Segel favorite part of dance to discuss questions about Joyce versus destiny. How our humanity drives or blinds US know? Jason Wants to talk about intense physical prowess and only it took me out of it man. Jason Yes. This is forgiveness. Good this is absolution good. You made no decision to betray me. I love it. You can only have done what you did. Thank you and that gets us to this. Episode's really big idea to the viewing chamber boot up. The Sim the defining theme of this episode. It is of course. Free will and determinism. Let's open with one for bobby a Kwok Quad. Did you like devs. Let's just start with that in a big picture since before we dive into some of the more specific questions that we have from the philosophical nature of the viewing experience. How did you find this show? I enjoyed it and honestly I found the concepts fascinating The Look of it fascinating. It was probably the best looking show on TV during these last eight weeks or whatever. It was frustrating. But I think I'm glad that exists. Which is one of those that I'm glad that there are creators. That get to take shots like this is like a you know a full court heave they got rim but you know a great attempt that I ultimately enjoyed what about you. Yeah I feel similarly you know. I didn't think it was a perfect shore. Perfect stories certainly but I'm really really really glad that it exists. I appreciate stories in any form whether it's novel Comic Television. Show a movie any form of exploring some sort of SCIFI philosophical exploration that may or may not deliver on the answers front but I find incredibly fascinating to consider the questions front and even though I liked. Dad's a little less than some of Garland's other work like xbox now for example film. I think we both really enjoy. I have always felt that way about Alex. Garland's work period like I liked annihilation as a movie. We did a podcast during the last bidgwood weekly Stainton. I explained at the time one of the most disorienting viewing experiences of my life because I chose to read that book that day and then go right to the theater and it was like am I in the Shimmer but you re watching that movie this week to get back into the Garland hive mind is like does this make sense you know. I'm not sure it does. But that's also okay because it's interesting to think about similarly X. Maka which I I really like a door as a movie and I think it's great when I watched it this week. It delivered a little less than I had remembered on some of the fully realized. Oh yes awful and intellectual pursuits yet. It's still need me. Ask questions about the nature of consciousness and free will that. I really enjoy pursuing in stories. So I'm grateful that this exists. I think that the choice to make this a television show instead of a movie is interesting are probably worth talking about. Second Garland has been very open both before this and subsequently about how this had to be a show for him how it was all always UNEO. Yes the studio production process around films and the way he puts it. It's like he felt the second he shipped off like he had already disappointed. Somebody and the ideas that he is attempting to examine are by their very nature incredibly complex. You know later. Today when we get to the citadel the jet IDA BOWL now the lab you're going to explore the actual science behind the show which is not an easy thing to do so in that I think saying okay. Let's make this an eight hour project instead of two hour. One is sensible. I don't know that that time actually delivered four times. The insight though. I guess you know it's interesting. I have the same kind of reaction in rewatching Garland's work in the run-up to this in the sense that you know it's a lot of I. I would use like a metaphor of a meal. It's like you have a wonderful salad. Come out and then you have like a great soup. The appetizer amazing some wonderful drinks. The bread is fresh out of the oven with this wonderful creamy butter. And then the main course kind of arrives. But you've had a really interesting experience and as you know I'm going to get into the best of my ability I'm going to get into the science underpinning this story a little later in the but I think that when delving into that I can't help but think a lot of that is an outgrowth of his interest in quantum mechanics in the between free will and determinism because so much of it is unfinished in and of itself and I think that he can't help but when building stories based on these concepts and ideas and areas of scientific study in a sense he can't help but create something that fuels just south of satisfying. Because everything that it's built on is unsatisfying. -Ly Incomplete Yeah. I think the meal analogy is really apt. Actually because one of the things that happened in devs or day. This is done spoiler. He gets to the ends and the thing that the show asks you to accept. Is that right the chocolate souffle. Which you're supposed to order at the beginning of the meal if you want it to be ready in time was actually the whole point that it was just about that ending. You know again if you catch up on some of the interviews that Garland has been doing. I think it's really interesting to hear him. Put such emphasis on Lillian. Jamie reuniting at the end as the final note the totality of what that was about. If you had it into that restaurant expecting marvelous stake your go right to be disappointed. Yes pretty much no matter what so. Some of that is about expectation and some of it is is about execution. I find the core ambition of the premise. The premise that he is exploring here to be totally fascinating. It's something that I really really really glad. We got to spend eight weeks digesting and thinking about the point you made about science and the interest in science. I think really interesting because garland speaks about an again. I admire this part of it. The owl in so many stories. The science is so stuffy. It's so dry. It's so boring and you're going to lose people before you even get them in there and part of the reason that he wanted to you know you mentioned the aesthetics of the show. I mean the Visual Palette of Dad's is astonishing. It's Gorgeous Show. The music both the score and the soundtrack are almost on par with the visuals in terms of just this incredibly both pleasant and disorienting deliberately. Really riveting sensory experience. You're watching it. He wants science to be beautiful right. There's poetry in the show. There are all these things that heighten the literary and sensory aspect of what you're consuming but at the end of the day if you get to the end and say either. I'm not quite sure where the show landed on. Its Horn message or I am sure but I don't totally know how we got there. And that's how that's what we're going to Parse next. Yes your mileage may vary on whether that's a satisfying experience you know. Ah show that is built in some level on philosophy but it's a loved one actual quantum mechanics is always going to be a balancing act right if you lean too far into consistently presenting the actual science which obviously some people would very much joy. I don't want to imply rise. There's a really really really high barrier to entry there for a lot of other people and you risk if not alienating just losing a certain portion of the people you're trying to reach if you go too far in the other direction though not dumbing it down. Because I don't think devs did. That actually doesn't do that at all. Yeah no but in some way limiting the specificity of science or the incorporation of the science into the pursuit. Then you're not going to be able to actually follow through on the intellectual rigor that the entire thing is built on it would be like the electromagnetics that are supposed to hold up. Checkoffs vacuum seal having been properly installed in the first place and so that is hard. That's hard before you even start to make. It is figuring out that balancing act like. I'm curious what you think about that part of dozen particular. Whether that was successful was too much of that not enough we do get access to that through. The doctors is which I think is helpful you know a scene like Katie and Linden at the dam is I think. Probably one of the moments for many viewers where the idea of what the multi verse is for the show Clicks even though that is one of the most emotionally gutting and morally complex sequences in the entire show. So in a way. You could say that's where it succeeds because it brings all of them together and in another way you could say well that is. Maybe why it doesn't succeed because we're not talking about any of the main characters reports there you know. There's always attention to an exposition in like character in any kind of story I think. About game of thrones season for when we're the opening episode were introduced over and Martel. And he gives you this huge Dallas food so that everything that's happened with Dorn and the relationship with the Lancasters and how fraud it is because of the murder of his family. That happened years ago. And it's this. She was motivated formation. That is given to you in this. Really dramatic compelling way through the Lens of a character and you're just invested and what really happened. Is this incredible magic trick. Where you've just been downloaded. This immense ream of information but in a really entertaining way. I think that the best version of that in DEB's for me is probably the scene. The flashback scene. Katie is in the viewing room. She's watching a bunch of things that have happened in the past and I've episode five. She's watching her meeting with forest. She's watching a lecture. He's there to kind of like scout her. She's been put on his radar and it is a lecture about Everett's many worlds interpretation and the various interpretations of that and what it might possibly mean. And she gets. And we're watching the lecturer. Explain a certain experiment that suggests that there are many worlds that exists and that a certain particle in this experiment appears to take two paths simultaneously. And what that might mean. And then Katie gets very fired up emotionally about the lecturers introduction of a certain hypothesis that she feels is like objectionable and I thought that was probably the best version of that. Where yes. You're given this big download of concepts and information and you're hit with penrose interpretation and von Neumann Wagner and all these kinds of specialty tons that will get into again later in the PODCAST. But you're also given that through the. Lens of Character. Who's having an emotional response and you understand? Oh there's strong feelings behind. These really furio kind of concepts that to me was the best version of that. I also feel like you know the show. The show can kind of veer into this almost like too airy realm of where these concepts needs to be grounded in something concrete these characters touching but. I think that the best version of that is. That is that scene episode five. Yeah that gets us to our next big question. Which is you know where does devops land on? Its own big idea. This tension between determinism and choice free will agency control over your own future on your own. Life is obviously at the heart of the show. What is the actual message in the end? And and how do the characters get there? Is there clarity for them for us? And we'll kinda not every single step by step of broadly step by step to kind of Parse what. I think when you're just watching. The finale can feel like a bit of a weight. How did I get your where the entire show? He is rigidly opposed to the multi-diverse. Because of what it means which is that is not. He's a Maya his daughter. Why does that matter because he holds himself responsible for the death of his daughter? And his wife. We see that gutting sequence of the car crash the phone call if determinism guides the universe then he is not to blame because that was where the tramline was going. And it's always where it was going. This is it's not elemental to his stance of the show. It Is Everything. It is his entire existence on a rewatch. There are a few more moments than I recalled watching it for the first time where you are primed to accept that he will get to the moment at the end after his. Willie's death when he is in the Sam and Katie says basically you can be with your wife and daughter again but I need you to understand what that means? And it means you're in the and right you'll be with them and all of the different universes not just the one you on. Not Just Your Maya. So let's run through some of that. I just say back to the exposition point for a second lily is the main character but forrest in his dilemma. The heart of the show. I mean that's it. You know if drama is a character attempting to get something and either getting it or not getting it and they're being vastly different stakes for those two options than what this story is about is forest trying to reconnect with his daughter. N. either succeeding or failing. That's the heart of this show. Yes and so. It is simultaneously the character in the area in which the two driving forces of the show the science and the humanity come together the most clearly for us. This person is driven by what is in his heart. This loss this defining loss the law as he will say the paths love lead. You down are extraordinary. It is also thus definition -ly the character in the area where we are most likely to say. Wait a minute. Does that fully track or did that come together clearly enough. I thought it ex positionally. Some of the clunky stuff in the show was also some of the stuff that didn't actually matter and so weirdly encountered I found it the most frustrating for example the scene where Lily seeks out jaime initially to have him help her crack into surrogate son and figure out truth behind his death and Jamie runs through beat by beat their break-up so that we understand their history and we need to understand their history and the emotional baggage that they're caring for each other people. Don't talk that way. Yeah people just don't talk that way to each other and so again me because I am not. It's my shock. You'd hear I'm not a quantum physicists. And so my ability to say Oh is that how that lecture would go is literally non existent for me whereas like is this. How you talked to your ex boyfriend is something that I have a little more experienced with. And after we chat through the free will determine some question a little bit more. We're going to circle back to some of those questions about the human aspect of the show. The people what drove them. And obviously those things are intertwined. But I think it's also worth kind of separating them if we can to see how it all came together if the tramlines ran in parallel nature as they should for forest. At least I think that the conversation re- forest and Lily. I think it really helps bring into focus some of the issues with the show as it progressed very strong start but then it kind of like as the scope widens. It gets a little fuzzy and I think lot of that has to do with Lena. What was lily trying to do? She wanted to find out. Why Sergei what happened to Sergei and why he was kept and she basically does that pretty early on yes. What devs does is a question that is kind of like saved for where her Jamie go to? Forest House may hang out and play Frisbee and she is talk locating but essentially her mission is accomplished halfway through season. So then it feels like that. That's where for me. The series series loses a little bit of the propulsion that it had early on where it's like this mission. What happened to Sergei unlocked? The Yoga P- meet with the spy what happened. I getting caught up in all this and then all of a sudden that kind of just like peters out and we lose a lot of the momentum. So it's funny that you say that. I three days ago would have completely agreed with you. That was my exact experience watching the show. In real time as it aired. I thought the first half of the season was like mesmerizing and I could not wait to see where it went as we started to get into the answer realm after the question realm. I was like STA liver the way that I wanted it to. I'm not really sure but I am looking forward to thinking about it more and asking myself more and asking you when I watched it. The first half of the season just doesn't matter at all. It is almost irrelevant to the actual game of the show like to sit again through. Multiple episodes were lily is investigating as death trying to dupe Kenton into this whole pursuit her hospitalization. I mean. Obviously the stuff with Pete pays off another checkoffs gun in the show right into the vacuum seal is pizza presents the entire time. That stuff pays off the lily. Jamie relationship pays off but actually completely at the expense of the Willie. Sergei relationship she was. She's in the semi at end and she sees Sergei. It's not oh here's another chance for me. It's the right person lied to me. Every day of our lives together and it wasn't what I thought it was now again. I find that question of basically if you got to do over with somebody you thought you loved but you knew something completely different about them. Would you be able to try to find that happiness together again and the fact that the answer for her is no? I think he's actually awesome and really cool but that is not what the show is about. I agree with you. I think like structurally you know. There's just like a lot of weird first half second half of the season things but I think for me like the scene and the sequence that I thought was the best was her duping Kenton going out on the ledge of the building and then he coming out and just incredibly calm way talking to her off Ledge and in a way that gives you insight into the kind of steeliness that this person must have under extremely pressure-filled conditions to be able to carry this off. The way he did. And then the reveal that like her friend had helped her with this and then breaking into laughter as they drive away. We'd never see that friend to get there had gone. Jen just is not a part of the second half doesn't matter she's out of it and that's weird yeah that's sequences really again gig quite heart thumping the first time. You're watching return to it because the show in some ways comes down in a more pro. Free will place than we were expecting now. The multi room will get into this a little bit more as we go. The multi verse on the show is presented still as deterministic outcome to be clear but there is free will in your world in the world. You're and the choice. Made lillies decision to throw the gun away. Forces decision to opt into the SIM that Katya saying. He has to opt into Stewart's decision though. He makes a reference to the fact that he didn't have control. All of those things are presented at the end as actual choices people made in their reality. Yeah but also with the understanding that in the many worlds that the show presents and the science ought space all of those other reality stolen full too so when I watch Lily on the Ledge? It doesn't matter to me anymore that she and Jen are playing out. This ruse and Kenton is participating as their pawn. The thing that mattered that I found really dismaying again in a way I like to think about is the forest down there watching them knowing why everything is happening. Yeah and this gets into. We can actually talk about this. This gets into the question of where actually came down on. Its own central question because for it to end in Katie. And far saying well what happened there. Oh Lily made a choice and this aspect of it that Williams special and different because she was able to make that choice. I didn't feel rewatching that. That conclusion was totally supported along the way even though I was actually relieved like in a physiological way. I breathed a sigh of relief that that was the outcome when she tossed the gun away. I said thank God but if we go step by step it's like so let's just go through it Garlan. I think this is an important thing to say as a stylist as an intellectual as a filmmaker TV maker eased sometimes willfully and deliberately complex. He doesn't WanNa make it easy on people and he is disposition really as interested me more interested in the question. Then in the answer this isn't important backdrop for pursuing us. I think that that's a great way to put it. I thought that what he said in an interview he did. After the finale this week with Allen Wall enrolling son is worth sharing seven wall asked him about in general Garland's comfort with the ambiguous nature of the public's response to his work. And not. Did you like it did you understand. Did you understand what he was trying to say? Okay and here's what he said. This is a long answer but this snippet of it it in it in this case is the beach the novel that he wrote. You may have seen the Leo DiCaprio film I have. It taught me early on the my intentions. Weren't that important. It took me a long time to fully take that idea on board. I used to resist it and go. No no what I'm trying to say is this then. I realized that's almost an opposition. To what stories are and that half of the story is what the viewer brings to the story. I find that incredibly fascinating. Two reasons one in I don't mean this will sound uncharitable. It's not how I mean you're kind of letting yourself off the hook a little bit if you say I agree but too I think he's exactly right. And that is of course as somebody consuming story the thing that is almost most precious about it to me. That's something we talk about here all the time. How does something that you're reading or watching? Unlock something for you about your life and your experience and your pursuit and that might not be totally in line with the intention of the person who's making it but that is part of the miracle of storytelling period is that it can happen that way for you. It's a great way to put it like this is now. This is a little preview of our saga conversation. But there's a great insomnia. There is an incredible couple page sequence between the author D Oswald Heist and Marko and Alana's they arrive as lighthouse. They're talking about his book. He had previously just when questioned about the intentions of a certain work that he had written said. No that was. I did that for money. It was like a quick throw off like that was all about the paycheck. There's no deeper message. Alana shows up and she's like you were saying this and he's like yes. Finally somebody sees me. That's exactly what I was going for. Ucla it you understand it. You're right and I think that that is just one of the kind of timeless tensions that are part of storytelling. Whatever the story means to the author once that story is put out into the world that can't help but take on a myriad different facets depending on who is engaging with that story and whether that audience can see through to the kernel of truth that the author was trying to place in. That thing is a question that can't really be answered except on an individual basis and all things are true what that story means to one person will be different from what the sort of means to another person and those are universally true yes completely and so that is a very effective way to frame the next part of our discussion which is how did we process it and that might not be the same way that other people did and that is totally fine and in need the point. We talk all the time on this podcast about the conflict between choice and destiny. How that theme recurs in fantasy stories and it is foundational to what devs was about determinism. The question of determinism the comfort or discomfort that you find in thinking about a deterministic universe is the driving force behind the bulk of the show until the moment worked. Choice enters it. So is the future fixed. This is the central question. Do we have free will? And the ability to determine our own fate or is it predetermined. Are we just sitting in the tram as far as tramlines so one of the interesting things about devs from a structural perspective? Is that the episodes open with these montages. That are these nap shots and teases of things that are going to occur. Later in those episodes it is like a. Meta application of the theme the future is set and it is noble until of course. It isn't now that's the part. I'm still hung up on his. Why don't more people do things that mean? It isn't by again. Mileage may vary so. Can we change it? Can we exert free will if we know what the future is supposed to be as Katie and forest do and as Lilly does after they tell her. Can we totally absent of the knowledge that a thing like devs dais exists? Let's start with farces stance right at the beginning and episode one. Yeah he sets it up right away quote. The Universe is deterministic. It's godless neutral. And define only by physical laws the Marlboro roles because it was pushed. The man needs because he's hungry in effect is always the result of prior. 'cause the life we lead with all its apparent chaos is actually a life on tramlines prescribed. Deviating deterministic I know. It doesn't feel that way. Sergei we fall into an illusion of free will because the tramlines are invisible and we feel so certain about our subjective state. Our feelings our opinions judgments decisions. Don't listen to those crunching footsteps of the man with the plastic bag behind. You just stand there very still super thin plastic bag get into that. We'll just do it now quickly. Yeah let's just do out here is that. Oh my God you guys were derailing yourselves every three seconds even though you told me you wouldn't face that we're so familiar with but no better time than the present to talk about. Sergei's needless death. Yes right after that monologue. Kenton sneaks up behind Sergei and puts a plastic shopping bag over his face and snuffs him out serve. His hands are not restricted. Alviri Watch it. He's laying on the ground canton's on him and holding the bag tight with both hands and Sergei choking of but like just hook your finger up polka hole in the bag where your mouth is and tear the bag open and it's ridiculous it's crazy. Just do that and live. Push the fucking trap off. Lion man tried to save yourself. What is that? It's ridiculous call? Glossman is like a huge person to that made it even harder to believe that he wouldn't just try to use his strength to huge. In what way. Oh Mr Zoe Kravitz boy. So this is forest essentially with his monologue leading himself off the hook for the things that have happened to him. He was on the phone with his wife as she was driving their child. Back to the House as we see later she says you know. I hate talking on the phone. I'll talk to you in person. In thirty seconds right and she runs a stop sign and boom car crash. They are killed no statue of the wife on the campus. By the way though wall. Decals of the wife's face. Just the kid tough. Look for my wife. He later says to Sergei. This is forgiveness. This is absolution. You made no decision to betray me. This is after the reveal that Sergei was stealing proprietary information for Russian intelligence. Which yeah you made no decision to betray me. You could only have done what you did. He is projecting this basically about himself. This is all about his internal turmoil about the role he had in his daughter's demise yes lily's eventual death inside of doubts. Far A steph. Inside of dabs the electromagnetic seal breaking all of that is foretold pretty early in the series actually not the forest death and knee vacuum-sealed aspect of it but the fact. That lily is going to meet this end. Were moving toward that with clarity that we will be at least to some extent and Katie. We learn they know it all they have to hold onto that forest has to hold onto that because he has to believe but there are some clues throughout at least on some level that even forest believes while he may not say it out loud or even allow himself consciously. Feel it that the tram. Ken Come off the line couple examples. The scene mentioned earlier with Lily. On the ledge outside of Kevin's office when forest talking to Kenton after that he says that was very close. Kin It nearly fucked the universe. Now one of the most elegant writing but that's almost beside the point is he just fucking with Kenton here because of course there are plenty of moments where they do you know for example saying yet bother quitting smoking without ever telling him right. I'm telling you you don't need to quit smoking because you're gonNA fuck be murdered by Peo- secret. Russian agent can makes his big speech later in the season about how he's not going to go to jail he knows about farces tramline principle but he does not know his own fate. They have not told him SUMITA. This is just forest continuing to play out the ruse to keep canton on the trend. Line just like he needs to try to keep lily on it. But maybe it's an insight to the fact that he actually has a little bit of doubt the kind of doubt that Woulda Primus to accept his eventual. Yes hard at the end similarly in episode for this one is more important forest and Katie. Have One of their many heartfelt candidate exchanges and he says what if we project one minute into the future right now at C. You folding your arms and you say fuck the future. I'm a magician. My magic breaks tramlines. I'm not going to fold my arms. You put your hands in your pockets and you keep them there until the clock runs out. Now I think. Probably the bulk of the al-yas Meyer spots. Certainly was yeah exactly what it just did that. Her response though is bring him back in. It's like Godfather three. They believe in right when you thought you were out cause precedes effect. She says effect leads to cause the futures fixed in exactly the same way as the past. The tramlines are real in forty. Eight hours lily will die. There's no magic effectively. It's already happened now. I would argue. That seem does a couple things one again. Prime to understand that on some level has questions about the thing that he claims he has no questions about believes in totally it either. Work Short doesn't fully many times. We know that the emotion the loss the grief is what drives him for Katie. It is the science and you need that anchor in the show. The person who does not have the same personal connection to it though we learn later in the show that she has a personal connection to forest which introduces i. Think one of the actually really interesting things the show could have explored and it just doesn't which is what if you fell in love with somebody in the whole thing you were trying to help them do is basically a race yourself from their life. Yeah that would've been a cool thing to focus on. That point brings up a really interesting aspect of this entire debate. Which is the Paradox? Kind of inherent in the idea of knowing the future if the world is deterministic. Right and you were always going to go to this one place but part of is what drives you to that. Place is knowledge of where you are going of knowledge of the future innocence. Then where does that begin? Where does that end? Are you going there because you were told to go there or were you always going to go there even if you were never told or is devs existence and the knowledge of the future integral to that like all of this is just like? It's just a circle like where does the prophecy? And where do you begin lily? Asking what if I just don't go to devs is an important question because like we have. What if she doesn't put then yes is being told you will go to depths tonight. The thing that drives her to go to devs. It's just like yes. You can just run around in a circle forever trying to figure out where determinism and free will end in this particular setup of knowing the future yes and we will pass that a little bit more not only with that aspect of the plot that you just described Lily basically saying I refuse and Katie. Saying it doesn't matter and then. Willie ending up there anyway. Despite saying she wouldn't but of course then in the moment of seeming to fulfil the prophecy ultimately subverting it you have a similar exchange with Katie and Linden before Linden's death which is a good one to dive into a little bit more in terms of the moral complexity play. The show does not explore and really should. We'll also talk a little bit more later about the symbols of Garland returns to like the sneaky eating its own tail. The Infinity Symbol lillies infinity symbol necklace. Think of annihilation in the Tattoo. Lena's arm this idea of the interconnected nature of reality and the infinite aspect and what caused an effect really mean I think garland thinks is a little more complex than the characters on the show because the scene where Lillian. Jamie go too far house and Jamie and I have their Bro Session. Playing frisbee bonding outside. Which actually thousand really cute and charming and Katie. And Willie have the more complex discussion inside. Katie boils down to the pen. Move because I pushed it. There is no randomness in the universe and AAC effect is always preceded by the cost so again Katie is really one of her primary functions in the show is that she is even though she does not have the emotional motivation or perhaps maybe because she does not have the emotional motivation and even though she knows that she knows and says that forest is wrong. The multi versus real and that his insistence on his world and his outcome is not correct. She's the one who introduces Linden. Sound waves method to lie waves as well she believes or at least spouses the fundamental science of it and is that anchor that keeps US oriented to what the devs experience is supposed to be all about so if forest is fixed for the bulk of the show in his insistence on a deterministic universe and on one world not many despite his doubts. It is because as we've said he has to let himself off the hook this entire behemoths that he spilt. You know a senator comes to meet with him about the power of the Maya the fear that people have about devs without knowing what it is. It's very clear that he is this. Titanic figure in the world and of course one of the I think less elegantly handled aspects of the show comes into play later when all the characters star including himself start talking to him about a Messiah and this is where the critique of our actual real world silicon valley culture and the tech overlord comes into play in the show as it often. Does you know. Think of Nathan and Blue Book from. Yeah ex Montana. The forest can only believe in one world because he needs he is a Maya back. Just an my until he changes his mind later but this is for the bulk of the show. As he establishes from the very very opening with Sergei becomes clearest for us when he fires Linden most interestingly Linden and stuart when Lyndon his showing everybody this breakthrough we can see and hear Jesus on the Cross. They say this is still deterministic. This is the thing you were looking for. 'cause that's how far as-as explained it determinism tramlines. Linden says it's still deterministic. Stuart says deterministic because everything that can happen will happen and Linden says and that's deterministic as you can get bought forest completely rebels against it to the point where he fires. Linden threatens to kill Linden and explains it by saying not our Jesus from our history. Jesus from a strand every time you run the system you'll get a different outcome and Linden says but the difference might be a single hair on Jesus's head and you might think. Oh well that seems pretty minor but the forest. That's the entire point right right. No it will be that difference in three hairs difference and four and a thousand and all points in between an either side and then later when he and Katie. You're talking and she's saying you fi- most talented engineer. He says if it's not our Jesus it's not myemma every hair on her head matter. Yes it does. And that is the complete and total substance of his position to kind of cheese to exchange. He needs it to be his daughter. It's gotta be her not slightly off not slightly off to the left not with her hair and slightly different color. It has to be hurt and it has to be deterministic so that he is off the hook for the events that led to her death. This is what Katy system quote. I think DEB's is how you put yourself on trial. It's judge and jury if it works. Determine his and precludes free will in your absolve. You did no wrong. But if it doesn't work you had choices you're guilty if it doesn't work. I'm damned for US says and we see of course the softening happening in real time because kiedis maybe brilliant maybe cruel maybe not mutually exclusive choice. There is to say we'll watch this and tell me it's not your daughter. Applying Linden's principle to the light waves showing forest Anna. Maya but not his and what's his response that he says. Oh Christ which of course achieves chew things not subtly but achieves them one that's leaning in further to the day US reveal at the end got in the machine the messianic nature of what they are pursuing but also his decreased resistance to embracing the multi-diverse and being with his daughter in any way that he can and the show really shifts hard into the multi-diverse starting at the beginning of episode five. We open you talked already about all the different glimpses of the accident that we get a little bit later here. We open with all of these different lilies in her apartment. Different SERGEJS DIFFERENT. Jamie's even you know what could have been for them. We see the accidents later on in a future episode. We will see Lyndon fall time and time and time again we start to get these glimpses ingrained into the fabric of each episode of how the multi-diverse would unfold. What the different outcomes in each world would look like. In a way that establishes well before the ultimate reveal. That is where the show is going that the show is gonNA come down in a pro multi worlds. The multi-diverse is real place. And then the thing to figure out will be how you can reconcile free will in an outcome that the show itself again we just quoted the LINEN STEWART EXCHANGE. The show itself has established as deterministic. Katie tells lily in order to get her to devs where they need her about Mrs one lily as far as house about quote. An unknown event triggers a total breakdown in cause and effect a breakdown of determinism breakdown. The literal laws of the universe. The time of it lillies rolling it. All of it and this is worth thinking about because this set up for the fact that the thing really does will change and undo everything And also the later in the finale the way that forest and Katie discuss the choice. That lily made an impact that it has that actually affirms that the show does think Lilly did something genuinely unique by making a choice like not that the fact that she tosses the gun away is supposed you confirm for us that we all have the capacity to do that even though I think that is what we think and what. We look for often in our stories in moments like this. I think the show is saying that she broke something because people don't typically do that and I find that level of either complexity or confusion a little bit disappointed and mooring. Yeah I think that you know for me agree. I think that there is unreal. Watched were set up to kind of buy into this idea. That Louise's somehow special special in a way. Not like you're very good at numbers you can recite numbers up to like five digits. Not In that way but in a way that's kind of beyond human experience to the point where this incredible quantum supercomputer that can hold the states of every particle in the universe. Can't figure out what she's going to do at a particular moment in time and I think the implications of that for the story aren't really sold in the way that they should be because like therefore isn't she the Messiah. What is it about her that makes so beyond the capability of this device to measure? Like what is it about her? That makes her almost like superhuman in that sense and I think that never really lands in a way that is truly satisfying like those shock that registers on forest face when she throws away the gun right right it seemingly comes out of left field for me like that's where the kind of disatisfaction a lot of it arises from is this feeling that. Lily's the super person that's the reaction to it but it seemingly this vast kind of like conceptual leap from what she does to the reaction to what she does. So she's not positioned as the Messiah the way that Fars Ryan's himself or maybe more accurately his work right she's positioned by Katie in the exchange with Katie and forest and the finale as the disruptor. She's Adam rate right. She as Katie will say was disobedient right. She bit the Apple. Yes but again. I think you can look at that. A couple of different ways on the one hand you can say. Wall Adam and Eve that is then confirming that humans us all the people who stem from Adam and Eve can make choices and you it also though it does solidify this idea that what really did is an origin point of actual change that she altered something about the fabric of the universe and Human Nature. Which again other people are should feel however they feel about that for me. I don't like I don't dislike that the show asked a question. I think that's great. That's not where I come down on it because that actually means that everybody else until he did that that their choices didn't matter right which I thought is like an Athem agree again. I think when you take into account the scale of what the devs machine does which is with a small data set is able to extrapolate the state of everything in the universe everything across the galaxy in the solar system on Neptune on planets. That we don't. We're not even aware of it can look. They're right right. What earth was like a billion years ago but somehow lillies able to do something that it can't see to the point that its ability to understand what is happening on the moon or in China or one hundred yards away is completely thrown off by decision? Not Anything else. That happens the world like again as you said it makes it as if none of that other stuff matters except for this and I just think that the implications of that are pretty dismantling credible and very troubling yes think about as a contrast the scene in episode seven where we see the entire. Dev Staff in the visualization chamber looking one second into their future and they are all completely freaked out. That scene is in a wine men with this presentation of Lilius. Somebody who actually did alter something did do something. Different was unique. Ones was special. But I just didn't think made any sense lake there watching and again maybe part of it hinges on the fact that other than Stewart it's a bunch of characters we know or have any connection to but they're watching. Oh I see that I moved my arm and then a second later in real life I move it I hear myself say something and then I say it and I'm just sitting here watching the screening at my TV. Just don't move your arm. Just don't say the thing that you just heard yourself say any implication that those people are actually in capable of doing that. It's distressing to me it. Is You know Ted. Shang has a great. I've talked about explanation. Is Latest collection short stories quite a bit but the very first story in that is called the merchant and the alchemist gate. And it's about like this a merchant in Baghdad. Who has this basically at creates these time travel rings that you can go through in their set at different times in the past and it encounters this problem like okay. You know what's going to happen so just don't do the thing but really solves that problem in a way that's brilliant and also very human and tragic in a sense. This kind of doesn't do that again. Like to your point. It's a second. Don't do the thing that you just saw like. Just watch what that person is doing. And don't do that and see what happens right so like a moment. I enjoyed that taps into the tension that that insight were. 'cause gets back to the question you're asking earlier. How could you live your life if you knew what was GonNa Happen? I thought it was important that character's voice that at some point and we got that from Linden in the conversation with Katie before Linden's death when Katie's why didn't you repeat and the answer is of course not because Oh it was a rule boss. Nobody gives a shit about that when it said why. Ask a question when you've already heard the answer. I don't WanNa know the future. It's not that strange. Why have the illusion of free? Will I have the illusion of free will so two responses to that one? This is Benjamin we would say free wells not an allusion. That's the entire point. But in the universe of devs I found that really refreshing to hear a character voice the fact that it will be completely completely debilitating to know what the future men and this is. I think a good moment to compare it as you're just starting to do some other fantasy and sci fi stories that bring the future into play you know. Think about watchmen the Lindelof. Hbo Version of it. Where spoiler for watchman if you haven't seen it yet you should it's great doctor. Manhattan blocks his own brain. Yeah it'd be expensive being for that. Stretch of time Doctor Manhattan. So that he can experience true human existence or relationship love because he knows he understands that. Those things are not compatible. You cannot actually live your life and fall in love with somebody and experience the rhythm of an everyday routine. If you know what's going to happen you cannot do it. You mentioned showing what about story of your life too short for that arrivals based on. That's a great one. For examining how knowledge of the future can or does or does not impact the choice you make. Will you still decide to have that relationship to have that child? If you know what's going to happen can you stop yourself? Would you want to lizard credibly interesting things to think about in the moments worked avs asked us to think about them are some of the highs of the show just not always the primary ambition? I would ask you a moral question about this. Sure you know we talked about this. A lot of game of thrones and the question of how or whether brand could rule effectively should be allowed to rule as the three hundred even as somebody who had the capacity to know the future. Can you be trusted to guide other people if you know their fates see think about something like the Katie Linden seen? I think you're mostly supposed to think about that. From Linden's perspective you climb over the rail and you balance in you know because it was the conversation you just had that in attempting to affirm your devotion to the multi-diverse you'll be alive in some worlds you'll also be dead and others right. Yes and you'll have no experience of the other worlds right. If he falls he will only experience the world in which falls. If he doesn't fall he will only experience the world in which he does not fall right. What about from Katie's perspective though because there's the aspect on the surface of Katie? Having seen this you know we know for a fact. Katie in this does how it plays out. Fara says. Remember Linden's in your car there's that whole thing. Katie says Linden. I've watched US have this conversation a million times and I never tell you whether you fall because then it can't be an act of face. I'm watches like Katie's murderer. Yeah Right Katie's murderer because he does know the outcome. This is an act of bullshit. Hurry on Katie's part to an incredible degree whether realizes it or not it's like okay. You can't tell Linden if he falls because it negates the act of the belief but then you are telling yourself by the act of observing the future what the future is so that negates your belief in what is occurring so essentially. Yeah you're a murderer. Like why not? Just push him and say well there are also other worlds in which I do not push him. I mean Katie's answer to why not push him with me because I have seen that. I don't but it all ends up in the same place back to farce Lillian Kadian Stewart in the final showdown in his obvious to no accident. That in this moment where Lily has arrived at devs despite saying that she she speaking about herself almost like she's a machine not a human being. What not who or whom? I don't know what I am anymore. Something that makes no decisions. Something not someone yeah. Has No choices. Follows a pack. It can't see it's not I? I'm not even choosing the words I speak now and farces stance though fueled by Lavin hope and the desire to escape. Culpability is ultimately incredibly nihilistic. I hope I don't sound unsympathetic. He says but I've taken nothing from you. I can't take what you never had the sense that you are. Participating in life was only ever an illusion. Life is just something we watch. Unfold like pictures on a screen. I'm allergic to that. It's not what I wanted. I fell very grateful with the show ended up disproving forest stance though I think introducing a level of confusion by ultimately giving him what he wanted or at least a version of it in the end so j. I think another aspect of this. This interesting to discuss are a lot of black mirror comps. You could make certainly Sanjin appear. I thought about a lot while watching this as something that I thought ultimately explored this more successfully. But there's a US callister question here too. Sure Lake the other people in the SIM don't know they're in the Sim in depths. They didn't choose to be in the SIM and so is it right to put them there. And if forest says and Katie says there is no difference. Everybody says this the Siamese akin to reality then you are playing God and that is why forest says oh it is day. Us then speaking of Black Mirror forest. It's all data. That was one of the. It's like our colleague. Elissa Bresnik tweeted did big data right. She added still of that scene. Very tough not my favorite. But the substance of what? He's saying if not the way what she says it does lend us off to another Black Mirror Com. Something like be right back. Where is it the same year forest? Says if you have the data you have her breath. The tone of her voice her thoughts and memories her love for her knowledge. My love for her. It's not a film of it is on my if she's alive and he believes that because he has to but think about be right back is that acsh- was it ever good enough to be ash. Did it ever feel like him? Fully and truly. But then that's where Sandra in peril comes back into a two because part of what makes that show beautiful as a story. Is that the love that Yorkie and Kelly fine together is as real as anything that neither of them ever experienced black mirror in an hour or an hour and a half I think can reach a high with those questions. The depths never quite hit even though they are interested in the same question. Yeah I agree with you and I think it's because and I'm sure garlan listen. We disagree with this but I think the Black Mirror puts the characters and their wants and needs and feeling central in a way that this show doesn't really do. The concepts really are front and center and the idea that the debate between determinism and free will are front and center and the implications of the Dev supercomputer put front and center not so much forests pain and his desire to reconnect with his daughter. Even though I again I think Arlen show runners would disagree. I think the ending is a good example of that in storytelling. There have to be some kind of stakes reset it again and again forest is a person has committed or ordered murders. He hasn't done them with his own hand. But he's set in motion events that have led to murder and now back reconnect with his daughter before. Sergei applies to devs and therefore the murders have been committed yet. But he is that person with the knowledge of those events sure and those have been wiped away his culpability. He will never pay a price for that. The his only prices that he exists that looks and feels and just like the world that he just left and if somebody pulls the plug somewhere he's a ceases to exist but what be painless than he would know. It happened but there's no price to be paid and I think that that's kind of like antithetical to good stories if there is at the end of it no real price died in the real world. But he's alive. Essentially he kill people but nothing will be done to be happy with his daughter again. Yeah I think that's also like an interesting contrast some other staples of this kind of storytelling. Were typically you know if you think of like Sushi? Maga- FROGS PROPHECY. And Game of thrones or voldemort hearing the snippet of trelawny prophecy from snakes. That he hears in Harry Potter characters tend to act in a way that will they hope? Allow them to avoid the future. They've seen in forests of course moving toward it because moving toward it is the way to achieve what you just described which is escaping all culpability. Not only for the impetus of all this which is a Maya's death but for all of those other things he's done along the way that's why he's able to say to Lilly. I've taken nothing from you because he actually believes that. That's true that that is very troubling. I think I think that gets us to the question of how the show explores the Tech Messiah and that idea you know all of these visual aspects the the Halos around the trees in the forest which I think is like visually incredible symbolically. Not The most subtle thing. You know a halo hanging over the head of a creator this ability to eliminate your path but also mask the thing that's ahead or above in that case. What do they keep seeing in the SIM? Jesus I think afforest hair day as the name. None of this stuff is a subtle. There are so many moments where characters just outright say tech geniuses are bad you know thinking like the Stewart Linden Exchange. He's Tech Genius Lahser Secondary. Do you really want something as powerful as dabs in the hands of someone crazy or Jamie Lilly exchange. You know the problem with the people who are on tech companies. They have too much power. Drives them crazy they end up thinking. They're Messiahs Lily to forest forest. You know the thing about Messiahs don't you? They're false profits. This was after of course farce. It said there resurrected Stewart's poems. These are worth talking about from in at the two poetry. It's beautiful we get Philip Larkin. ended up Assad seven. And then we get Yates. Yates is the second coming. The beginning of episode eight Spoiler Larkin Bad guy. Yeah Large Yikes in Google at Roth the poem though Abbad which is very long we don't hear all of it in the show but if you just look at the full tax there are so many snippets here that you understand very clearly why it is included in what message we are getting about forest and his work things like in only life can take so long to climb clear of it's wrong beginnings and may never but at the total emptiness forever the sure extinction that we travel to and shall be lost in always not to be here not to be anywhere and soon nothing more terrible nothing more true or this is a special way of being afraid no trick dispels. Religion used to try that vast moth eaten musical or cade created to pretend we never die or and so it stays just on the edge of vision a small and focus blur standing show that slows. Each impulse down to indecision. Most things may never happen. This one will etcetera etcetera etcetera. This is an unambiguous indictment of farce and his work quite clearly and seward as an effective character. And saying this is wrong. This is unholy. This should not be allowed. That's why I have to try to stop it. Though of course in stopping he helps bring it about that is one of the ways in which is not clear where the show actually comes down on. Its own message. But as Stuart says such big decisions being made about our future by people who know so little about our past because he is dismayed that Boris can identify the poem. And then there's the very funny moment later where Keith Shit is like Shakespeare. I think you Katie's the smart one and she doesn't know it either. This is alarming to them. And then the second coming at the beginning of episode eight which is of course about the rise of a new messiah a new age we played a snippet of it at the top of the PODCAST and Hilariously. The show truncates one of the most famous poems in the absolute gall chip incredible stuff. So this is what do I ask you with. All of that as the backdrop forest was wrong. He ends up accepting the multi versus real. He says to Katie. Yes I understand I WANNA be with a Maya even though and I one of the most incredible scenes is when forrest explaining to lily in this in what happens and we flash to all the different versions of that conversation sometimes paradise sometimes. They're in Hell but he got paradise at least once and so I think you can say he won. He is resurrected he says to lily were in the system. Resurrection ask promised so if he is presented as this foul New Messiah misguided in control of something. That should not be allowed. Why is the show end with him? Achieving his goal and then Katie. Doing everything she can to protect. What message does that send? I think that the show is not sure. I mean think even force would say that he's only doing with the machine tells them to do essentially one way to read it as we don't have free will everything is determined as this is how everything shakes out and other way to look at is. You're watching pictures on a screen. Ram that tell you what to do. And then you just do that. Yeah that's why ultimately I think the fact that they land with. Lily made a choice. Free will does matter even if it was the outcome. You wanted which for me. It was feels a little hollow. It's because so much of what the show explores is so staunchly in the deterministic camp. And you know like in the separate Wall Rolling Stone interview with Garlan. Several estimates is determine. Asthma Philosophy yourself ascribed to and he said any position I could take on. That is only like a belief system. I just simply don't know which of course but my instincts are toward determinism rather than against it. My Hunch. Is that the thing we call free will is not what we think of it. So that is clarifying and informs a lot about the nature of his work even if we do not necessarily agree with it or would want to. I think there's a way to interpret it as an outcome of compatible. Ism were free will end determinism can coexist your choice. Dictate your fate in your world. But there are also in the devs. Das Universe many others pains me to say but the cat is always both dead and alive. And it's up to you whether you open the door to find out in a sense. I wonder if like storytelling. His the correct medium to grapple with this idea because choice just has to matter and stories at the end of the day. You really can't. In a story that GRIPS PEOPLE. And obviously this is subjective. I find it really hard to come down on the side of pure determinism in a story that will capture your imagination. It always has to be about a character making a choice and yes they do. Come down on that the end but only kind of the it's it's very hedged right. I don't know if it's possible to make a story about pure determinism where everything that happens happens because it was supposed to happen and the story was pre written. The interesting spaces are always on the margins of that where we're determinism meets free will and where the shades of grey happen where you're not sure whether a choice is right to make because you've seen it before it's just not compelling to me in any kind of way beyond the moral questions to be told you will do this because that's what will happen right. And that also connects back to you know whether the characters human beings are compelling enough and then whether it matters if that is the case if that is the ecosystem in which they operate you know we can just talk about this very very quickly because we had on their motivation a lot already but I think of something like the fact that lily is presented toss in encryption specialist. And I'm like why did that matter did that matter other than the symbolic significance and obviously the show is rife with symbols as all of Garland's working away the generally I enjoy. But other than the fact that symbolically it is profound to think about hiding or uncovering something unlocking or protecting. It is compelling lillies. Actual background doesn't matter other than people telling us it matters. The most important thing I learned about lily in the entire show was the flashback with her dad in the hospital. Yeah her we hear him say no man ever steps in the same river twice because it's not the same river and he is not the same man and he tells her that it's an ancient. Greek saying and that in time she will come to understand it. No that's the kind of idea. I WanNa Watch eight hours about you know and again. That's just me personally but far east building a massive looming statue of his daughter. Yes it's a symbol. Of course her. Death has defined his life at looms over his work and every decision that he makes his living in his old home. Her bedroom is preserved everything about his life before. Her death is preserved. I was most interested in the moment and again I was moved by his loss. I found that flashback pretty gutting but I found the most interesting thing too far said in the entire show to be when he was watching the cave paintings with Katie. On the one hand every time. They're watching something in the visualization chamber. Telling another character that they've seen the future I found myself thinking like do they have time. Turner's. They're watching nephew. Munson days this many times. How anyway when he said some of the wall paintings are five thousand years apart? Five thousand years in the same place making the aim images. How could nothing have changed so much time? That's really interesting to me. Yes that is a human response. Yes it's a scientific response. It's an entrepreneurial response but that's just thinking about what it means to be alive what it means to go through every day putting one foot in front of the other end either doing the same thing again or trying to do something different and I did find myself thirsting for more moments where the characters in a way that we could see. Try to grapple with something like that. Yes am obviously a lot of this is in. There's been a lot of talk about like the very flat measured performances kind of across the board on this show and I think that to your earlier. Point of people don't speak that way. There is a level of detachment and coldness. That may show hard to engage with at certain times. You know if someone comes to you and says hey I? We invented a computer. That's God if you were told that you'd be like wow I wanna know so much more. Natural human response would be like Holy Shit. What yes? Yeah I'll me everything about this thing. not okay. I guess I'll leave now by now. Very basic things. But I think that that's that's part of what made it hard to engage with some of these concepts. Sometimes that gets us to the next question which is is Alex Garland. Creating some sort of shared universe across. This story is obviously in exploring the same ideas in the same questions you know. He now has a show called end. A movie called xbox xbox hitting Dais X. Mock God from the machine across his work and in the seminole interview several asked him when the idea occurred to you that the true title would make this a pairing with xbox and also asked him about these. These works being paired. And he said I headed in my head that there was a companion piece to mark affects. Machen is about a man who is trying to act as if he's God via technology and science. I thought there's a companion story which is about people not trying to act as if they're God but trying to create God so this was the day spit of the data sex Montana. I will just pull back the curtain a little bit. I- cackled when this review gave out I ll come on now. Yeah it was one of the things annoyed at myself that I hadn't seen it coming because in hindsight it's right there. I love the idea of connecting your work. I love the idea of exploring the same things I think. On a more micro level even though he is very interested in the macroscopic obviously as Katie voices often the show. There are a lot of interesting things to point to you about these connections to have one of your characters literally say it's a private joke about your own private joke. I know it was a little on the dose for me but I think if we quickly run through some of these other connections are Larry's it does craft in interesting. Amaya esque looming. Totem to these share principles. That he is interested in returning to time and time. Again you know annihilation in Dabs or very different stories. And obviously he didn't write annihilation. He's adapting famously. After reading once it's great read. It once was like well. That's Nice but devs next obviously more similar all of them have common threads and connective tissue. You know as Lena says in annihilation there's aspect of creating something new. That garland is interested in exploring something lasting all the stories export agency they offer the nature of consciousness. I think crucially. They all explored duplicates. You think of all the cell splitting you see an in relation and then of course the question of is that Cain is that Lena who is the real person if there are multiple versions of that person exactly think of all of the versions that lead up to Ada who is then finally able to break free and ex mock and or the many many a Maya's in the multi verse here then think about something like the infinity symbol which we mentioned briefly earlier lily wearing an infinity symbol necklace. Not at the beginning of the show though as she gains insight later which is an interesting choice. Think about the Arrose Tattoos in annihilation cycles. The eternal return immortality in a certain form at least this idea of infinite possibilities and world's think of the word in the name of Maya means both Far Star and of course his company in which dabs exists also. Interestingly perhaps coincidentally the Fort Name in annihilation for Amaya another parallel across works. What does this mean? What does the etymology mother mother CD? The end pleasant place all of these different ways that you can parse it all of which fit to the function and the story similarly lily an early model of the AI in X. Mock Anna is named Lily and lily is the main character in devs. These things are not accidental. What is the Lily Represents Symbolically Purity Motherhood Rebirth also death? He's obviously also very interested in exploring tech guys. Nathan has that incredible line to Caleb about being godly. I turn to Kaley. Looked up at me and said you're not Emmanuel God and Caleb like I never said that shots to Donald gleason one of the shouts to Shasta Oscar. Isaac absolutely crushes his performance. And who's dance with Sonora like highlight of frigging movie? Does we get a fuck. You WanNa does or great scene gravy. Human beings always trying to conquer a force whether it's the Shimmer a day that is beyond and probably should be beyond their control. This idea of them as Messiahs. There's also this connection on an auditory connection and visual connection the score. The sound the breakdown of the in annihilation that you did for that pot is one of my favorite things you've ever done on the pied and like the way that the composition of the score from Ben Salisbury Geoff Barrow who also did X. Makkonen isolation come into play the soundtrack song inclusions year. All of this stuff applies. Not only to douse but to all of Garland's work. He's looking for this element of consistency but continuing to access the question in a slightly different way. Jason yes I think binge mode is how you've put yourself on trial. It's judge and jury if it works. Determinism precludes free will and your absolved. You did no wrong. But if it doesn't work you had choices and your guilty. All I did was I was on the phone. Not My fault either. Way Please gathered the encryption crew and head to the lab to teach US everything we need to know about. Everett's many worlds interpretation and the science behind the show the idea of multi-diverse myriad parallel universes each slightly different from one another existing at the same time. It's not just an idea for the Marvel. Cinematic universe it is an actual reading of quantum mechanics which was published in nineteen fifty seven by then doctoral student named Hugh ever at his paper titled Fury of the Universal Wave. Function was met with silence and derision at the time. It is still divisive as we'll discuss but in the decade since the idea has gained traction and is essentially a respectable interpretation of quantum physics before we get to that. Let's first attempt and I say again attempt attempt. Forget this wrong. Quantum physics heads out. There I apologize to explain why such an interpretation is even necessary. In the beginning there was darkness then an apple bonkers in English on the head in there was classical physics the physics of Isaac Newton the Apple. Falling from the Tree Newton in English polymath and bonafide genius published Principia Mathematica in sixteen and eighty seven and this laid the groundwork for modern physics after Newton. Through an apple you could using his principles of motion accurately described. The trajectory of the apple is flies in predict with great accuracy where the apple will end. The math works with apples rocks. Boulders artillery shells and even planets large stellar bodies input information about an object or collection of objects position or momentum and the forces acting on the object in classical physics provides a clear picture of just what is happening so clear that an eighteen fourteen. The French mathematician Pierre Simon La plus proposed that a god-like intelligence could in principle no the momentum's in positions of every object in the universe. And therefore we're able to predict everything that would happen in the future and no with a certainty. Everything that had happened in the past the thought experiment is known as the pastas demon replaced. The all-knowing Demon with a super powerful quantum computer and Bingo. You have depths or dais in his book something deeply Hidden Sean. Carola theoretical physicist author and professor at Caltech writes quote. Physics aspires to figure out. What kinds of stuff? The world is made of how the stuff naturally changes over time and how various bits of stuff interact with each other gradually of the course of the nineteenth century and early twentieth centuries. A new kind of physics quantum physics was developed to describe the miniscule stuff that all the stuff we see is made of is very complicated and it's hard to grasp. We're not gonNA pretend that I actually understand it really with the difference between but the differences between classical and the new quantum mechanics are in broad strokes. Easy to understand. Classical mechanics is very good at describing. How everything we see and experience works. Quantum physics is a tool for describing. How the things we can't see electrons photons and stuff that's even smaller moving react how that stuff works. But we're classical. Physics clearly describes and predicts an object state I e its position and momentum. Quantum mechanics describes a particle state as instead a range of possible positions and possible. Momentum's this range of probable states is called the wave function in quantum mechanics. An Electron isn't in a specific position. It is in what's called a superposition which includes every possible position. It could be in until A. Here's where quantum mechanics gets starts to get super weird until a measurement is made. This is bizarre stuff when the position of an electron or any of these particles that quantum fixes involved in explaining whenever the position of an electron is measured. It appears in an actual discrete position. Not a superposition. So what happens to all these other probabilities over the course of two years from nineteen twenty five to nine hundred twenty seven physicist Niels Bohr and Vergara Heisenberg? You know him from breaking bad you might also know him. As the mastermind behind the Nazi atomic weapons program came up with an explanation commonly called the Copenhagen interpretation very basically according to this the wave function of this electron collapses into a position when the electron is observed a whole bunch of questions. Come up from this. What is observed means who is the Observer zolfo Super Weird and mind bending the wave function the supervision of all possible positions of the electron simply just collapses into the one position which we see Erwin Schrodinger who's famous equation is one of the landmarks underpinning quantum physics devised an even more famous thought experiment after corresponding with Albert Einstein about the thorny implications of the Copenhagen interpretation. A cat is trapped in a steel chamber. Sorry male hate this hate this I- Geiger counter is rigged to a hammer which if triggered shatters a flask containing acid which then kills the cat radio a week radio substances fleas next. The Guy who counter the cat could be alive if the substance hasn't yet emitted a small amount of radiation which would trigger the guy counter or could be dead if the substance has manziel. You look in the box you don't know. Thus until the observer intervenes the cat exist in a superposition of being alive and dead at the same time is the cat not an observer. Believe me people have thought about this. Quantum mechanics is the best tool we ever explaining the subatomic world but it allows for things which do not comport with our experienced reality now. There are some who would say. Maybe that doesn't matter if the tool works. Perhaps we shouldn't worry too much about exactly how it works for kind of sums this up when he says I'm afraid we are. Magicians toward the end of the story. After creating a device which can predict the future access alternate timelines and effectively. Bring the dead back to life if you and me and cats and everything in the world made up of these tiny particles if an electron is in a superposition of all possible positions. Why aren't we in a super position? Also why don't we perceive reality in that way? Schroeder's cat experiment was designed to show. How Difficult Square in Copenhagen is with observable real life how ridiculous in a sense it is ever interpretation says forget. The wave function collapse. Bit From Copenhagen. Throw that out. That's just a thing that we added on to the pure equations. Forget that instead just follow with the numbers. Say all possible positions still exist? Everett's interpretation says that the cat is literally both dead and alive at the same time just in parallel universe is open the box in one branch. And you'll see a living cat and another branch you see a dead one. Depending on what the R- you active substance did in that particular version of the world. Several scenes in the show depicted this most notably the flashbacks of forests witnessing the car crash that killed a Maya in which in other words the event shook out slightly differently in these other worlds are overlapped with the scene that we see. Everett's interpretation leaves us with so many questions. When do the world split off from each other? And what separates them from each other? Why can't we access these other worlds from the world that we are? And what constitutes a branching here on earth there are infinite interactions taking place every moment right and at the same time countless interactions between objects particles. Who knows what else are happening. In the farthest corners of the universe or all of these branches there must be then an infinite number of alternate worlds and the implications for causality and free. Willer obvious Ben troubling really and it's no wonder that philosophy is tied up in the implications that arise from quantum physics. The response efforts paper was overwhelmingly negative in the decade since it's become more accepted and various other interpretations to it have been made by very very brilliant people. Still it has many detractors. Roger Penrose Professor Emeritus at Oxford mentioned in the episode. Five flashback scene where forrest meets Katie after the lecture on many worlds interpretation is an outspoken critic quote. The trouble is what can you do with it? Nothing Penrose said in two thousand nine. You WanNA physical theory that describes the world that we see around us. That's what physics has always been explained. What the world we see does and why or how it does it. Many worlds quantum mechanics doesn't do that. Either you accept it and try to make sense of it which is what a lot of people do or like me. You say no. That's beyond the limits of what quantum mechanics can tell us. Hendri's has his own interpretation of wave form collapse which involves factoring in the curvature of Space Time Forget it. We're not even to delve into that. The other interpretation mentioned in that flashback scene that we just mentioned the one that Katy loudly objects to is the von Neumann Vig ner interpretation in nineteen thirty two math. Sharon undergrads listening to this podcast. Jason how dare you able? You're saying in one thousand nine thirty. Two mathematician John Von Neumann argued that and observers. Subjective perception could play a role in the wave function collapse in the nineteen sixties physicist. Eugene Victor You'd won a Nobel Prize again. These brilliant people built on this and similar arguments put forward by Fritz London and Edmund Bauer. Nineteen thirty nine saying that quantum mechanics allows for the possibilities that human consciousness plays a role in wave function collapse. Now I'm going to quote Vignal at length here quote all the quantum mechanics purports to provide our probability connections between subsequent impressions of the consciousness. And even though the dividing line between the observer whose consciousness is being affected and the observe physical object can be shifted toward the one or the other to a considerable degree. It cannot be eliminated. It may be premature to believe that the present philosophy of quantum mechanics will remain a permanent feature of future physical theories it will remain remarkable in whatever way our future concepts may develop that the very study of the external world led to the conclusion that the content of the consciousness is an ultimate reality critics of this approach of which. Katie is one would argue that. It's basically unprovable and therefore magical thinking Aka pseudoscience. After writing his paper Everett got his doctorate from Princeton and went to work for the Pentagon. Cold War was ramping up in the military needs. No you know just how bad a nuclear war might possibly be spoil really bad in nineteen sixty. He helped write weapon. System Management Group number fifty still classified report which is thought to have laid the groundwork for the strategy of mutually assured destruction. He later formed his own consulting company. Lambda Corporation which was involved with various kinds of military modeling including nuclear war game simulations he died in nineteen eighty two at the age of fifty one. Lord Ziti is just as boy worlds where he kept going. Great Point Man. Maybe he's forest and Lily in the Sim right now. Playing Doku with Surrey. Who doesn't know he's in the SIM think of it. That way watching Arthur Miller make love to Marilyn Monroe only needed to be individualization share with Stewart Mal. They're having the tech nerds wettest dream the when the reduces everything to nothing. Nothing but code. And we're having the podcasters wettest jury making up our own. Spin Offs. Let's roll like the FIBONACCI sequence infinitely through the aid of the Dev Spin Offs. We'd like to see lightning round style. You go first boy so many characters on we barely got to learn anything about and hopefully when these spinoffs become real we well. Let's start with number zero. The American Century of old man's strength and adventure of the week style show that treats us to procedural snapshots of Canton beating up grown adults half his age. How does he do strategic flashbacks to Kenton strength-building CIA years abroad provide key character? Arc insight. Listen this took me out of it. Especially him Hogan bad about this and he will say oh Mike. Urban Trout like come on Carried a gun. He carried a gun and he would put the gun on April and make them use it to kill Jamie at the very end when you show up at my apartment breaking and entering then fill the bathtub in one way to get in and hold me under. It's not happening. We'RE GOING TO SCRAP IT OUT. Dude and maybe you'll win but you know what I'm GonNa fuck you up to. You'RE GONNA have black is. You're going to be hurt very badly. Get in the club. And you're just GonNa hold me under. It's not gonNA happen number one the other Americans when Elizabeth and Philip Jennings went home Sergey Peden Anton had west and said this is the other. Americans mind the gap between the wheel and the chess number one kiss. You can't tell. Were doing a chase sequence numbering here stewart after dark stewart tired of living in an RV and realizing a my is his last chance at a life altering payday makes a fateful decision he being sneaking into the depths facility when no one is there so that he can record videos of historical figures having sex which he then sells on the dark web but how long until his scheme unravels now. What historical figures having sex would you like to watch? Oh God boy perhaps because this would have been my answer no matter what and perhaps because Stewart actually mentions Mark Antony to Forest when mocking how little he knows of. Raw Schramm you to go with Mark Antony and Cleopatra by a great one it's a great one oh man jeeze I guess like JFK and anyone high take I believe that JFK probably was a bad lay. But I'd like to see it because you think he's a selfish lover or what. He had the back injury. He is like back surgery. He really range of motion was obviously not what it should be. I feel like uncle junior right now. Saying this gale Kennedy incredible next number two silicon forest the garland expanded universe mixed with Silicon Valley's unique sense of humor. Let's have a bias forest and Blue Book's Nathan Fight for placement in Erlich bachman incubator silicon forest coming to Qube APP store near you number three. The Sensational Sir. Stuart the fine folks behind the marvelous. Mrs Mazel apply. They're keen eye to Stewart's moonlight hobby as a prodigy on delay on the poetry slam scene. I loved to see this people would be like wait. A second. Isn't that Yates number? Five Loan Sim survivor. Senator Lane thought the. Us government hit the power tech Jackpot when agreeing to Katie's request to help keep dais running but when Senator Lane is chosen as the lone survivor amid the EVA driven attack. That brings garlic shared universe to it's knees. Senator faces a life of loneliness and leadership in Kiefer Sutherland. Glasses eight love is building blind and the follow up to net. Flix breakout hit. Love is blind Ford selects sculptor who will bring his dead child's haunting visage to the tranquil treeline. But this twist. Can you hit the right artist? Based only on that sculptures ability describe their design. I would say that given the end product answers clearly. S number thirteen. This is her shocked face a game show in which contestants compete by telling. Louis Amazing Tech related breakthrough such as I made a computer. That's basically God to see if they can. Prompt a minimally emotional reaction from her Buckingham Palace. Guards glare at me from your woods. Jason Yes if I tell you. Today's winner in the gates. Your Act belief on a mystic walking over unlit Coles Phil here a bit is what would we like to honor? The character idea. That rallied the troops advance. The cause of today the winner of our ten million dollar. Dev Spe out is the levers devs. What a great look for our guys. The Incheon it worlds of the multi-diverse great luck while the human heartbeat of devs could at times leave something to be desired and the conceptual conclusions did not always feel completely cohesive. We always enjoy a story that asks us to think about these kinds of philosophical questions about the nature of humanity about consciousness about agency about our shared experience. We are grateful to devops for giving US cause to think about those things in new. Whether or not you believe. In the Everett interpretation of particular Garland's work provides the impetus to at least consider it as well as poetry and symbolism while France. It's an amazing thing we're binge modal take you the. Rodeo travel the length which you'll go just as we keep telling Isaac liens that Graham are indispensable producer and researcher. We hope you enjoyed this week's episode and that you are of course staying healthy and staying safe. We will be back next week. The chat about Saga Down While. Of course we will be taking the entire SAGA ARC to date into account as we are want to do so. That's all fifty four issues. We're going to focus first on book one or if you have an printed volumes. One two in three or issues one through eighteen. That's what we're going to be hitting first taking the whole thing into account but focusing on that in the next episode. Can't wait cannot wait so hyped until then remember you did great work and yes yearned bath and champagne. If that's what you want tell accounting we okayed it. Says Abraham Lincoln checking off and that guy had a rod? Is this really the the right application for this? Can we all just get looking looking? Good work you know. They call them the rail splitter you can really tell that he did shop would my God. The steam engine had only recently been invented. But I'll tell you there's another steam engine here said Jack Harem of of a forum that he has we can switch it to something else. We can watch George Washington give head. He leaves the teeth in his. You know that.

Katie Alison Sergei Aka Lily Alex Garland Jamie Linden Jamie Willie Maya Lilly Chan Mr Zoe Kravitz partner Kenton Isaac facebook Jesus America DEB Apple New York
178. Feature Presentation - Ex Machina (2014)

Midnight Double Feature - A Film Podcast

2:32:20 hr | 4 months ago

178. Feature Presentation - Ex Machina (2014)

"Over the next few days, you're going to human component in attorney. Test Only Shit. Yeah, that's right Caleb. You got it because if the test is passed, you are dead center of the greatest scientific event in the history of Man. If, you've credit a consciousness name. Slow the history of His sheriff dogs. Did you program how to flirt with me if I did? Would that be cheating? What? Caleb what's what's your type of? Go no salad dressing. Yeah of girl. What's your type of girl? You know at even answer that, but say it's black chicks. Okay, that's your thing for the sake of argument. That's your thing, okay? Why is that your thing because you did a detailed analysis of all racial types and you cross reference at analysis of the points based system? No, you're just attracted to black chicks, a consequence of accumulated external stimuli that you probably didn't even register. They registered with you did your program? It's like me on that. I programmed. CETERA sexual just like you program via heterosexual. Nobody program made a be straight. You decided to be straight. Pleased, of course you programmed by the nature or nurture or both, and to be honest Caleb. You're starting to annoy me now because this is your insecurity, talking this is not your intellect. Caleb Smith a programmer. If the world's most popular search engine winter contest that enables him to spend a week at the private estate of Nathan Bateman. Has Companies Brilliant CEO when he arrives Caleb learns that he has been chosen to be the human component turing test to determine the capabilities and conscious of Eva a beautiful robot, however, as the sessions progress, thanks to sinister more pieces of the puzzle fall into place, threatening to unravel the greatest scientific event in the history of mankind. Welcome to another feature presentation midnight double feature in on this episode we'll be covering two thousand fourteen x mocking directed by Alex Garland. What's going on? Guys welcome back to midnight double future coming at you with our feature presentation episode of X. Makina written and directed by Alex Garland. The universe asked the question what happened Wade runner in the shining at a baby, and this answered it. Here. I am not just by myself, but with my co-host as usual, have Ali. Good what's happening now not not much to just ready to talk about this shit ready to get into x Machi now. I mean I think this movies definitely been on this. The background this is. This is this is totally be lacking in the background of of seventy, besides like we've mentioned an old. It's like quite a few times. Right? Let me like an upgrade. We covered it upgrade. Woo basically talking about this if he as well like yeah, because this is kind of like more I, guess more refined I. Guess a little Bit More Intellectual Vision of upright kind of thing. Yeah, sir, somewhat similar like you know you've got the WHO's manipulating the human characters, and then you know they're trying to escape the the form that they're in whatever I what has? and. It's more. It's more like two thousand one that it is like Robocop, you know, right? Arrive exactly exactly but man I think men like just You know I guess if it was supposed to jump in now. Let's just jump de something. This is GonNa be a long episode. Just This is. Good? This movie is a fucking Alzheimer. This this movie is just absolutely amazing and Santa. Con Preached This Movie Higher Nas like I remember when it came out in two thousand and It's actually a twenty four. Maybe we're just talking about this. It's twenty four movie, but came when he fifteen It kind of like went under the right Alpha. Because this is such a big of ABC I remember Twenty Fifteen. It was like this is the year that we had mad Max Gerard's. The Star Wars false awakens over the revenues spotlight. I think one this year for best picture asserted like I remember by getting some some huge movies and xbox con went onto the right Alpha. May and I was working at Hoyts at. A friend of Mine Jason comes up to me and he's like dude. Have you seen this movie? X? Cunanan was like no I. Haven't is that new and he's like it's playing right now. You can go check it out and I other shit inside of me. I didn't watch maybe. Movies I waited for Toco like to come out and blue blu-ray man I watched. It was like just tardily inanimate and blown away by the the really lofty science fiction elements in this and things that you can story that you can only tell in the science fiction genre like watching like I'm thinking Ken a Harvey, tell this kind of story. Can An action movie like tell this story? But this movie and the like the the concepts and ideas that puts forward is just so unique to science fiction, Yukon achieve it on any other genre, and in watching this movie like we we. We've talked about gone before, but very briefly when we cover dread. Because he didn't direct movie. Right that movie. That's right. This is this is his first movie like coming out of the gate with xbox. Yeah then you follow it up with the annihilation, and then you have your own TV. Show devs I've heard. deb's is really good. Annihilation dirt. That movie is also a mind. Fuck I still haven't seen that one either. It's a minor factor. Moss are of a mind faulk than than this I do think that this is the best movie right like this is his like. You know like fucking PhD resistance like. Talk More Shit and yeah, just one of it I think man the acting in his movies talk mark the special effects the top notch. I mean this this caused mobster at the Oscars Everyone thought it was gonna be Mad Max, the false awakens. That's GONNA take into visual effects. Sky was like no xbox and I'll get the. Special effects and it's like Whoa. That was huge I. Remember watching that live as well. That's that's. Like I'm like really over fury road though. This is, this is amazing, but like fury road visually. It's just like Oh my God. Come on man. I don't know this is. This is amazing. They're very close, but like in very different ways, it's interesting because of a theory road incorporate. Some of the effects of this move uses when you day replace as the runs right. The kind of it's already caught that gone for it, so yeah out of that. but Yemen like everyone is firing on all cylinders on this movie There is no wasted sane in this I. Think like it's a very kind of tight script. It's a very very lane scraped. We always like everything Maine's something as always some kind of subtext. That's happening and that Kinda. This movie just turtled the podcasting in. Know like this is not a movie because you and I are like we talk about these in a off the. Way considering coming covering movies, and we always come to the conclusion. That comedy is really hard to cover because comedies of very often very surface level like you know you kind of need to, either like you need to be watching the movie. Yeah, honor, sorry like breaking them down Kinda like analytically just conduit like you know it's just it ends up being borey. It's like this jerk like let money it's literally like. They're kind of. Xactly but like you know we're something like X. mackinaw where things are a bit more interpretive. There's a lot more room for discussion. I like it. It just speak cited that we're going to have the conversation that we probably are, and if this ends up being a fucking flow and saline at A. Banana really came to get into this movie yeah. Dude. I can't remember I. Know I can't remember where I saw this if it was. I know it in seeing in the theaters. I feel like I just saw the cover of it and I saw Eva, and I was like okay. My buying this just immediately and only a few movies have ever have I ever done that. Really with is like the taking of Debra Logan the cover art just made me like. Oh My fucking God. grabber. Yes Hello Oh. That read fucking demon on the cover that one auto Mata and ex mocking, not a modest like not as good as this is still really good. Though I oughta Mata has some amazing sci-fi lines in it. And like what does he say to him out Mata? He's like you're just a robot. He's like calling. He's like you're just a machine. He's like calling me and machine is calling you and eight, and like Oh my God like I'm so far more advanced than. Some of some of this happening in this. Yeah, exactly but I I went through spree of just like buying these movies just be based off the cover, and this was one of them and I was like well. This just looks like something that I would enjoy. Even if it's probably not amazing, because I haven't really heard anything about it. I'm sure I'm still going to enjoy to some extent just because it sucks am hard. Fucking Dick Saifi, and it's it's it's. This is a sci. Fi lovers like dream you know and this is. Probably! I mean I don't think it's underestimate. Say that it's an immediate hard Scifi staple that it's like this is required twenty-first-century science fiction now and I think that's I mean that's A. It's a bold statement when you see stuff coming out like the sci-fi that we have now you know you, you see stuff like you know Chappie or district nine edge tomorrow, and like you have a lot of really cool quiet place. Bad aspects sci-fi. Of that, but like this I mean any any a year that I mean literally just last of us to came out like that hord science fiction that people like, and even that has cemented its place. You know just I know because Oh has been over there literally like whore, and a fucking saloon stuck to that playstation for your fucking sick. I I'm not the like I. I usually play the Xbox in my. My brother plays the LAI session poll. I advise them so I can be like I. Just I'm just like I'm taking fucking Ranga pulling rank I'm taking the playstation for this next few the next few weeks so. Dude I don't. I only have so much. Let me have this. This is my ship. But, no, you know it's it's A. It's a great time for these kinds of movies to be coming out and I think that we've talked a lot especially with the episode where we've had Matt Anderson from Liberty Streaky. Can the wash drive in great podcasts by the way everybody, go check them out. Of his sixth anniversary. Yeah, Hey, hey, hats off to LSD media. It's yeah without Lsi. There's no MDF, so we're always glad to have those guys on and we've had mad on in the past. We've talked a lot about like horror and the re like reconnaissance mckanna Sant's kind of like horror a what's going on with like? Get Out and read a -tarian midsummer. Midsummer and shit like that, but we're also having dad. It's much slower. It's less pronounced, but also of Scifi where like we are getting sci fi movies, but there's not like a one two punch of like fucking midsummer, heredity hereditary that come out like Oh, my God, but it's like a slow trickle of it and I feel like Saifi gets a little bit. You know I'm trying to think of the right way into little bit not as a as beloved like as buy mass audiences as horror. Because you know, they can just go and watch her moving and get scared by is like mad at Noah's taking a fucking class like come on. That's what this feels like and like this again. What you're saying reminds me of another movie. That came out this exact same year. Two Thousand Fifteen her director bus by. Never saw that now dude obviously conceptually super similar, and like very again very hard, so I fi- various like gets into the same matic. stuff that that that xbox does I can't remember if it was the before monitoring this year, I can't remember who's the same em apologies, but he added. If you have the time checkout her okay great. Yeah! I saw a lot of like. A movie like this required a little bit of Reading For me from other people and be like what other people will take of interpretations of this, or is that something more like you know? I don't have the answer I. Go to the Internet a lot of time when I watch stuff like this and I'm like what do other people think about this? And sometimes you find some stuff that you agree with more sometimes. I find a Lotta Shit. That I'm like well. That's stupid Yeah, that's the majority of the Shit that I find. Is Yourself that I'm like? Wow, that's dumb. But with this movie you know I, I know it's kind of sounds like a joke, but no seriously blade runner in the shining drastic park. All had a baby. It's like it feels like Jurassic Park as fuck when they're like landing. It's like come on this. Is Razek Park but then trapped isolated place I mean, but that's evil dead. That's Ramiro. You know that's Prince, of darkness Shit like that. You know that Claustrophobia when? When you turned the whole world like I. Don't know the fact that the police at the Reynoso cold and not inviting, and then once you get outside. It's warm and lush, but you. You're going to die 'cause there's nowhere to go. It's like an aunt amplifies everything up by like one hundred degrees, and it's really fucking cool, and then you also dropped this like hard Scifi on top of that and a guy who. Ron weasley brother, this weird. Little this weird little dude. On. Don Yeah. And then you've also got a puck and Oscar Isaac as Blake intimidating. Ask Guy you know. It's interesting, and then there's a kind of caught in the middle, and there's a lot of like religious symbolism with that and stuff, and like there's Eva Eva like there's a lot of like sheds a lot of after. Yeah, like the faces in the mask and shed do this is so like come on. But ultimately you know I I'm really. I'm so close to this being just like an absolutely like perfect movie to me and I really really do love it, and it's almost to me like that almost hits that echelon of light bladerunner like get so close, but ultimately it is such a smaller scale, and it's such a more personal story. than bladerunner is doing wrong. Hesam an amazing thought provoking content, and at the same time that half that other coin is the or the visuals of it. You know the ticon exceeding Roy Batty in the rain with blood. Blood going down his face, and the Tad signed behind him nearly Oh my God. This is incredible, and this definitely has some iconic stuff and I can see why at I can see why it was least nominated for an Oscar I. Don't know if it should it be fury road. I'm just saying once more bombastic wants more simplify, but they're both amazing in their own right, but God fury road is like I guess. Maybe I'm just like stop work to know like wasn't special. Effects your point at that point. Had already one like seven Oscars the thanks. Must have been like look. We need to give it to someone else in this one. Yeah, we Brett Ratner. I'm sorry we all on I. Don't know where rats were coming from. I don't know why his name popped into my head. But The thing about like X. Makia? especially with it being speaking of like Alex Garland. The first thing that he's written and directed simultaneously. I know you wrote like twenty eight days later, and he wrote dread and Shit, but this was like this to be your debut I. Just it's it reminds me of like a great band called killers. Their first album was like the biggest thing they've ever done. And now it's nothing has lived up to that and I'm like man. It's amazing what you did, but like now you gotta top that Shit. You know mentioned Nolan first movie was inception immediately off buck. Everything else such a downhill slow. But ultimately I really do love this movie. I don't love the ending of it I I and I visually. It's amazing. The soundtrack is incredible. The performances are incredible. I think it should have been nominated for hell of a lot more than best screenplay I think it was best screenplay and. The special effects, which is cool but I just. I feel all around like there's nothing. There's nothing plot wise. There's nothing dialogue wise nothing performance. Why that I really have a problem with until really towards the end because it's just? A you know we can get to, and we get to open I'm like why you know I think a lot of people were doing that to like you know why why not come up I? Think that a lot of people ask that and I was like it just doesn't seem. A that he would deserve that or be in her character. You know it just seems a little odd to me, but I mean we can cross that bridge when we come to it I definitely you know because feel differing opinions on this and I I love it I love it. We would probably guide to go into your from territory well. This bitch for forty five minutes talking about the. speaking with knelt speaking of. There a there is a review that I just wanted rate out right at the top hair. Done with your thoughts I, mean if you. Yeah I liked this movie I got some fucking problems with everything so there we go I'm just getting. Well this is a review from David because I mean look man like okay, we can both agree that this is a great. This is good, not good, if not great movie, you know. At least that right this guy man late, Leonard Nolan one, three seven five five day this the title of the review is not good. Right one style. And get ready I'm about to read this. Verbatim ulcer every it Kinda gave me a bit of an aneurysm because every word is capitalised. are like. It's yeah, like you know. Everything is kept lies like it's like his. Off The sold this movie I. Think About Other Film Blade, runner full stop. Is masterpiece best movie and. The full stop that you real quiet. I. Of A post stop. Blade runner is masterpiece. Best movie about official intelligence is GONNA good fucking. If Blade runner, you can say what is consequences if Love. Let me get through this bitch. If Blade runner, you can say what is consequences if human maker robot. We see. Fail ever. Type Freedom Evolution obviously the final saint of blade runner is remarkable, but ex mocking knock-on say anything. It's completely backwards, if black, if blade runner is nine x monkey now is one off curse, not 'cause curse. I think one is very good for this film and I can't believe what movies going to Oscar name of best picture every year academy work worst. This movie dart have any acting directing rotting cinematography school and any new idea. So what is that in two thousand one weasel artificial intelligence? The movie can say something. We can say the Little David have hope to see her. Wish Hey wished to be human wish and DOT DOT dot, but X. Is really have nothing to say nothing. I. That sounds like Charlie. That sounds like Charlie Kelly from always sunny. Cat Me? Right is like dude that has to be that that that review and not that there's anything wrong. This is by a person who's English is like the third or fourth language like that was terrible man who got really bad. It looks like he was just maybe like driving, and he got Siri to Rut his entire fucking. Talking into Siri and series like go. Yeah, I'm just gonNA fucking ride disincentive. Series like are you for real going to put this in all caps? Yes, yes. I want the whole thing. Fuck apples like what the fuck you doing her. That guy that guy talks like that? I would like a large, no Makia. He doesn't really talk loud. He talks with his mouth open really far. He talks at your. Talks in in your mouth. But I mean come on Dude Xbox. Has Nothing to say I mean I like I mean come on look Econo- have like I can see that you have taste right. If you saying that blade runner is a good movie that talks about artificial intelligence. Then I mean I don't know where you went wrong with Ex. Monk in this movie pretty much says what Bladerunner says, and in my opinion, guys a little bit more eloquently. More! One hundred percent and much more much more to the point. You know I like it's. It's much more in your face than bladerunner, as but run is a bit more. I guess metaphorical. It's a bit more. Abstract like word, but like it's more like style over science right Laura and that's not taking away anything for fucking blind now fucking Mazda Pace Rod, but right right this. This kind of like gets in your face literally tells you Hey. You're God. Who has? Who has obviously created ride, and literally you get the web permits, and if he know about permit, theus than permit theus I, mean look I'm not gonNA. Get lost in the ways. Hey, we'll. We'll talk about comes up but I. mean he stole fire from the Gods Gavitt humanity? Right like that's. That's what we get into I mean if you do your research, you don't even need to a lot of research to Kinda like get into what this is talking about like you know. It's not made for stupid people like I watched this fucking parents and watch that in Washington, a hefty lofty science fiction movies every day, but they were able to glean from this. What this was trying to say right like just. Out of Yeah I, understand, that's what I'm talking about like movies like this via under radar sometimes and then always find their home like later on with. Like home-video and shit like that. You know digital shit like that. Are you done? We'll. Go for. A you're probably gonNA bring up anyway, but I i. do like Alex Garland. And what he said about is like I envision this movie to take place about ten minutes from now like we went super surprised. If if Apple Google, come up with with something like Iva and I'm just like one hundred percent and this is. Be like gap will. Exactly. Here's our new friend Goupil to. Israel dumb is all four. Okay yeah, you gotTa Dizzy Reference Right at the top. Can ex- all right? Let's jump into this shit. Into Bitch literally my note start. Caleb Wins Caleb Rides K.. The blocks that's it skipped the first fifteen minutes this movie. I'm just kidding, so we see that the office we see him winning. Great example of show. Don't tell with a lot of this movie. You know you see a lot of empty beer bottles around. Natan, you see a lot of this stuff. People standing up people clapping. It's really really great I. Really Dig all this. You know he writes in the helicopter. Do you know who this helicopter pilot is? What does it look familiar dude? He is in hell boy. He's like he's like hell. Boys partner got with the hair plugs and hell boy, the human like. Yeah he's been in A. Good actor. But I just randomly Oh shit that guy i. don't even know his name. Actually the there's only like by the way seven people in this fucking cast by the way they're real easy. This is not fucking prince of darkness where fourteen different people to come up with. Fourteen characters too many. Yeah, cory, Johnson that's that's his name most. The Most Anak their name I've ever heard in my life. Get stays. Right, so you know he says. When are we going to arrive When will we be flying over? He's been flying over this bitch for like two hours, DUDE! That's insane. That blew my mind. Like I'm always. Thinking when I probably, but I love like I love the kind of sinister of it already because he's, he wakes up from like. He's asleep right, and then like you know. The the pilot waxed mumble without any legs up. Dealing he was drugs. I mean it would not surprise me if they're like all right. Here's a indie a and the as. Four Forum and he likes. Well. No because I mean like hell like he's going to fly path. He's GonNa know how they got here. Blindfolding somebody for you throw him in the van. You know right. I! Mean Look I'm probably looking into it, but it's just I. Just thought it was an interesting idea to kind of like. Because Look Mason is a bad person, but he is A. He's not a good guy at all. Odd? But Hey, look as a as a ship, but he actually is kind of the good guy in his movie. If you look at right, yeah, exactly comparatively. Yeah, right, yeah! So I don't know like I just thought like. I mean it'll be interesting if he was like drug. because. He's got no idea the flop off and yeah I'm just weird. When they extended the scene, and his pants were around his ankles real weird. Love sexual assaults already. Yeah, it's five minutes into the episode. Five minutes twenty five minutes. So the yeah, of course, the it's really fucking. Drastic Park is hell with a helicopter landing and the ship, but the amazing part about this is when it lands in drastic park. It's all you know what. Just crazy shit I'm here. Yeah, here. It's the feeling of like it's so loud and he so like disturbed by the saints, and once it flies off. It's just like that's it and you're like. Oh my God. You are so fucking out your dude. If anything happens to you, you're dead. You're so fucking dead. The isolation is really works well like right off the bat again. There's no wasted see. What do we need to see him? Being dropped off? Who gives a fuck and it's like well. Let's use that to build the tension of like now. See how quiet out here like. I fucking love that. I think that's really bad ass. And we are introduced to Oscar Isaac as Mark Zuckerberg. FUCKING RICH! Is this guy to earn fucking glossies? Yeah, for Real. That's why I was just like. I I mean 'cause. Here's what I was like. Okay, so he's basically Google. You know. It was like the guy who had been a google. I looked up in real life. Google is responsible for ninety percent of all Internet. Searches do the amount of revenue like I. How how much revenue they generate a year, but that's like a group of like Bald White Guy is suits on. It's not just like twenty seven year old guy who like you know. Where's a wife beater and hits a punching bag? Like this they would never leave that to that one dude but he's he's. Evil Tony Started Book Yeah. The company's Blue Book which I thought was interesting. Considering facebook slug is blur when Ryan one hundred percent like it's definitely I know they mentioned more. It's actually from I i. didn't drop that down. But I mean it's definitely the connotation of like the big blue thumb is like all you can think of book. Yeah, I feel like I know that. I love the meeting here. Hey, can your wigged out I? Get it. You know the ride the house. You're so fucking awesome, but can we cut through the bullshit? Just be like two guys. Lawyer -freshing. It's refreshing. How straight up not I mean look look here's eccentric is an eccentric billionaire which is kind of like a bit of a trump movies like this by. A bit. It's a bit farther to Kinda like get the get the weird Character, but usually they're like so much older like usually. They played by like Kinda like a guest by James Cromwell. Someone I. Don't know dude like someone like Wayland like Waylon Utah. Well I'm thinking of John Hammond right I mean like John Hammond dislike. He's Kinda Weird. Guys like POPs a champagne. He's like Orient fucking shit. Eldon Tyrell. Ran! The. Shining And and usually they speak in riddles, usually they speak in kind of like like wade ways, but this because like dude I'm not fucking around with the. Let's let's Talk man-to-man. Let's be simple with each other. Because honestly, that's kind of like I'm not comparing myself all fucking. That's literally I am I. Don't Care Man. I really don't like A. It's kind of like it's what they teach you in Laura like I mean 'cause. Your work is Sir Technical and Complex Blah, but when you like when he speak with someone when you speak with a client or when you speak to a friend, you should be as straight to the point and simplistic as possible because like. It it's just it's just it's just honestly unique that separation like you need that separation of your complex work, and that's oppression of like you'll simplicity in the social lives like right. Dispense dispense with the pleasantries just. Bullshit. Yeah, they right exactly. That's yeah. That's what I fucking like. There's a so where when I recently just like went act workers like nobody in the office with me and one of the girl and she's. She's really funny and shipping. You can tell she's. Kinda quieted I and she was Kinda shied as like listen. I'm going to be straight up with you girl. You're short, your ugly and you kind of smell like shit and she was just like what I'm just fucking with you. That's just how I fuck with people and she was just like so I could tell you. Can like caught off guard, but as I. Hey, I'm donny better fat. I'm bald issue like what the fuck was like. This is just how you break the ice. That way I get it. I'm very like I don't care. But. I love that. kind of like he's controlling the flow of the conversation pretty much immediately, right? He's kind of like republishing establishing who he is, he's and he's kind of like testing. CALEBS intelligence like pretty much immediately. He's like. Are you able to do this? Are you able to to to slow down to my level and just like talk with me like I rewrite? Yeah. Yeah well especially because it's your boss, you know it's not like F- like you know I met Stephen. King you know and I worked for him. I'd be like Oh my God you know, and he probably like cool dude, whatever you know. I don't really give a shit, but like I don't know. I couldn't imagine like meeting. Someone you're just you know. You Know I. Don't want to say like I. Adore like Dude I I love your work and stuff i. like working for that person I think that's that's what's interesting about it as well. It's not like just a M-. Nerdy, lonely kid you know and that's that's another thing, too. Is like what you said about him. Dominating the conversation, you can tell right away just through like Halabi's going to say yeah. Okay, that's cool. Can I put my bag here like this guy has hemorrhoids you know like it's gone down like you're really stressing me out absolutely, can we just? To do it gives them a tour of the house. I love the downstairs. There's no he is wrong. You thinking. There's no windows in here. There's a reason why there's no windows. These fucking bad. It's not a house. It's a research facility. I love this I don't care. This is a bad ass house good. That is so cool. I wonder where that fifteen million dollar budget went. Well also, I mean like like I. Don't want keep hopping on about in, but I love that he's kind of like. He's being sir, welcoming because he needs, he needs to his trust right I mean like that's. That's the that's the surface level. Shit right because like. Eileen like Nathan ultimately as become scenario is going to manipulate this guy what he's like. He's the Turing Test Dot. Come to find out so it's really essential to like for that to act that you know that Caleb earns sorry that Nathan callebs trust right well I mean. He's already got this influence power like he knows. I mean I could probably tell. This guy had been over and touches toes, and he would do it without even asking me, and it's like what, but I feel like especially when he comes in, and he's just like cut all this bullshit like that dominant personality overlaps like every day. He has matured the house now. Windows research facilities. He gets them to sign indy. A do this NDA. Oh, boy, like. What's like basically any oral electronic written information to be mind unlimited at all times as like dude, you're basically like you might as well have satellite in your teeth now dude like fucking monitor everything. Did you might as well fuck chain him up and like puppeteer like like a fucking ventriloquists like this as I'm like looking at this like this. I was ECON say the. The NDA, but he's like reciting like the times and stuff. I'm like getting a hot attacker it as. Just twitching. Yeah, I'm just like dude. He going to sign this, but like it's one of those things where. It's uniquely human, but EVA has this character characteristic as well. The the curie curiosity overrides the the sense of danger. If. If you. If you say something like you know you, you, you do a risk assessment and you know dislike you know. There's an element of risk, but I'm curious to see how it plays out. Like that is. That is such a human thing you know it's. It's good stuff. Yeah! One hundred curiosity killed the cat. You know it's like you can't not. Cool. We can just hang out and bullshit need hotdogs and he's like Oh. You could look back at a year and really kick yourself the T. so fucking. Would you know? Would you sign? I mean honestly they're going to get that. He was like do the phone. Companies are doing it anyways. That's how he mapped all of Abraham. So yeah, who gives them fuck man like you think we're the only two like on this video chat right now i. don't think so my friend yeah. Yeah exactly last is all. They saw in my phone book row like. This is like this this guy? This guy had fucking Tennessee regularly. Kohl's. This is trillion. Ali. Every two weeks. Something is up. Yeah, exactly. There's just bang on my door. GonNa go. So. Yes, no, I would totally do this though like I remember back when we did the flatliners episode like I would definitely flat line like I do I have poor judgment in the. I have poor judgment in the execution of like some really cool shit. You know what I mean I'm like it's like I'm I don't like risk. Take like driving to work and doing stupid shit. You know I don't spe- not not like that, but like yeah, you're. Right one hundred percent. Yeah, totally I and I. Think I would do this as well to be honest when the head of Google is like. Hey, you're going to see some really cool shit. Okay, I'm down I'll do it. Anyway walking on bucket in. Mosque! I WanNa say what exactly do. This guy might might as well be who runs google. I HAVE NO IDEA I. That's what I thought author I'm like Okay Like this guy, basically credit, Google, right I have no idea who created Google, couldn't tell off hand hickory at a Google yet, Steve Jobs. Is I know who her Elon Musk is? Jeff, Bezos you know like we know these names, but. Google right? Yeah, exactly like. Where did that start because I? Remember when that start like. Yes, something something that gmail.com Mike g mail. Drake Jagdeesh ring, laughing out work. Everybody's fucking. Emails to like consumers all day, and like nine times out of ten. It's fucking g mail and you get that. That's like yeah. It's it like mail dot com. I'm like how old are you like? To same thing. I'm just like a Oh yeah! Jesus here. Let me fucking. Blow the dust off this real quick. He's a fucking floppy disk as well as you. Do you know what the Turing Test is saying that right touring touring? Turn? Turn he was turning and I'm GONNA. Have you seen the imitation game with benedict cumberbatch? No really fucking good. Check it out like that like data cracker one yeah! Hey plays Alan Turing he plays the Guy Ripe for the the turing test is named after in that movie like we see how how the turing tests came to bay, dirt, such a fucking good movie, and the like the story of Alan. Turing is actually soup. Aside yet is it's it's fucking depressing, but yeah. Man Like I I heard of the tearing tested before this movie and I was just like hardly like that is such an interesting ideal but there's like this like the test itself as I present it in this movie. It sounds simple like it sounds civil, but I feel like there's so many variants in my little little intricacies like like obviously that Kayla brings up. Unlike other if it's kind of like. Okay if the if if pases test then then what I mean like show, you've proven that she can think for herself, and she's able to fully human being but I mean like. Did you program her that way like. Did you program head of Deceptive Mike Denardo main maybe comes up with all these little questions, and like that's that's address like it depends. How how do you look into this movie? Like a base? Things can be addressed a days. Things can be. You can have compensation things which we all right, yeah. This one things About this whole thing is kind of like. That's what's interesting about when it comes to a and like. You know three rules of robotics and the turing test in the Mirror Marianna black and white room and shit like that. You know like Futurama. There's a great episode of Futurama where you know the Santa Claus robot is like killing people on Christmas Eve and they throw. They throw like an irrational problem at him, and it causes him to seize up all honest. That's fucking awesome like I love that Shit. I remember the first time I was introduced to the as a mauve slide. Three roles robotics is lagging I robot. And I was like Bam bat is such a cool concept like you know that a robot con human cut human con allow like. To come to human house. That's that's sorry, fucking Gold Id! That's the PUCK and robocop prime directives. Law Protecting. Yeah Yeah. Except, for that food got him with that four. Dude buccaneer. Hidden directive run yeah. So the over the turing test basically if you can ya if a robot is in the room with you, and you can't tell who that it's robot basically to in Layman's terms the stupidest way I can say that because I saying that for me, not for you at home Like which is interesting, too, I would love to see I think that would be. I think that's really what they would do with an AI, they would just put an a on the sidewalk and just sit at a park bench like all day or Senate a bus bench until somebody was like you blow up doll like somebody got the fucking new. And that is the best way to do, and that's what Caleb says like. Like ladder on eight. It's he says the the needs to be hidden from the from the person ride sorry like. Otherwise, you Kinda like has that knowledge of lag while this is already a right but I can see you physically with my eyes that this thing has robotic extremities like Homs and shit, which is like when when when I walked out I was supercomputers I'm like what is what is the game here like? If she walks out with her robotic body than calebs going to in Assam, conscious narrower that Chase A. Not, not, even conscious dude like just literally can save physically. That is a robot rob. It'd be one thing if she was like all skinned up and shit right. Right so like you know, but then like I started thinking well, isn't it? Isn't it even better if she walks out like sorry Nathan? If she walks out fully robotic yet, she still is eventually able to convince Kayla. Beck is not a robot. Basically is that that's what he says. He's basically doing like he's like well. Yeah, he's like the whole point is to make it like. Basically, it's like fighting right handed, but then you swap lefty. It'd be like just fine. Let's see if we can make you believe even though you know your your Pa. Kind of already down a peg. You just make it more challenging so we meet. I mean pretty much. We're right here. We meet able. I love this session. One there's also seven sessions which is kind of like you know God created the world in seven days Kinda Shit like not hey. As, we established in darkness. There is no God so I'm not I'm not getting into all this stuff, but There's a lot of allegory man. There's a lot of like. Nathan is basically God and then Eva. Eva Is Eve. They're all they're all semireligious names. Like Nathan and Kayla were definitely the Bible a lot, not like the Matthew Mark Luke and John You know, but it's still there still Nathan in the Bible and stuff. And you tell you. There's definitely nozoe herbs. Yeah. I don't think there's any collins in the in the. was there was there was in the Bible, but I think he was like. Shining, shoes and shit I don't really. I. Don't think there's any comment that's GonNa. Come. I, don't think there's any collins popping up in the Koran or anything and. It's to what it'll be calling in. Some Shit. Yeah, exactly the sometimes. How does have with a name? Like how the fuck do you say this dude? I have no idea. You'RE GONNA. Call this customer. Can you tell me? As sounds vaguely brown is like Whoa. What I was like. It sounds it was like. All, right? How do you pronounce his name? Of the Simpsons Coke Las get your. Yes, dude, I google that name before I, even message you and I I couldn't find anything on the Internet that was like we don't. The Internet was like fucking Bro. But I'm Aleisha Volcano Dude I. Love this actress. She's fantastic. This is the first time I saw. on to be in massive movies, I mean she was in term writer she did. Do you know who's Pablo she is in real life. Michelle Rodriguez. She is with Michael Voss Benda good for them. That'll be good looking at them exactly. Yeah, thank you, I'm just like man. What your child looks like which is a creepiest thing. I was out on the pump cost, but still no. Yeah, it's still it's like holy. Shit like and to very very good actors as well to very yes very good i. think that you know I don't. Know, what you in for Shea wonderful. You keep talking. I'll have a look but I. Keep up with that Shit I. Don't know anything I. Don't watch the Oscars, like I literally I punched in like. X., Makina. Oscar and I was like Fuck Academy Awards because it just can't bring up. Oscar Isaac Shit and his county in. The Danish go she wants to the Danish go. Oh, with Eddie read main Yep Yep Yep. Came out came out of the same exact year as x as she had a massive. Yeah, that's bad ass So we need we see these damage to the walls. The tree of life kind of garden of Eden image like that's behind her and I love it when I see her. It's you can't really see her. Though like it's just Kinda like that blurry silhouette of like ever, and you can't. Really. You can't really like see it, and that's what kind of like that it's almost like an indicator of like what you see is not what you get there's. There's something else going on that. You don't really know think there's something kind of interesting about like what they first show of her, but it's like I mean immediate immediate like science fiction icon. It's like this. This is a there's a great book at Barnes and noble that I almost bought about like you know androids and robots and stuff and science fiction, and it was called. It was written by Anna Metron Eq and I was like Oh! Bitch. But it was really cool nose rings her and she was on the cover. Of course, because it's like you know, that's become like the iconic thing now. and. There's a lot of really good should in this movie to with like reflections and seeing somebody through the glass and stuff, there's many good ones, but I loved that for shot of her in front of the tree, and she just turned her head and looks, and you're like Oh God. That's so the CEELO is the silhouette. You're like what the fuck is. That man I wanted to? Briefly mentioned like you're talking about this. There's a lot of stuff happening with reflections. Especially, when it's just I earn Caleb. And Look I didn't this out of my arm, but I was to shape it for this, but I love the idea of Eva Interrogating Caleb like. Say? Kayla going in asking asking. These questions when in reality, it's always Avon. He's walking around and moving freely, and it's Kayla who is stuck in like that one position sitting down, there is literally unwholesome shot that will get to a bit lighter where it's like the it's side on in the Middle East the politician that's the gloss rods ego, one one on each side, and it looks like it looks like if you can't say the Dole behind Caleb so it looks like Caleb is trapped in the gloss box. Yes, one hundred. Shots dirt. It's sorry, fucking good and I think it's here as well I believe I think disordered sort fourteen minutes and fifty seconds. It's it's fantastic. Yeah, it's it's it's. It's so good. A lot of what's what's insane is just I've always been a fan of said this multiple times of movies that take place in one area and this this is. That's exactly what it feels like. When you're looking at an so you see her. And from her perspective, he looks like the one in the cage, but from him he's like well. Know I'm the one the door though bitch likes you're going to do. But The story automated like who's the one being tested here right right? Yeah, exactly who is the mouse? And who is the cheese like that's? That's kind of what I. Really Dig about it. And God. I mean she's just so. The this is what's amazing about her performance in this. Is subtly brilliant, absolutely fucking brilliant. You know they'll hurt her tiny little tweaks of the head and the way she kinda does rise. It's almost like perfectly human, but you can tell there's just that tiny little brush with the unnatural and I. Really Love that, but they get somebody who like this is exactly like Mary Elizabeth Winston and Oh my God Scott Pilgrim, and that's that's like I. Think when you take somebody like that, and obviously and Scott Program she's like the love interest I mean. She's literally a plot device. That's the thing and I think that it's the same thing and stuff like this, which is not I'm not saying it's a great representation of women I'm saying that like, but when you take those kind of movies, and you make you have this kind of love, interest, right in the middle of it, and it's this very charismatic like the. It kind of just pulls you in as a viewer and when you get, somebody is unknown to do that. That's really what I like is when you get somebody who is a man. They've gotten fucking Angelina Jolie you'd like Nah. It didn't really you know, but when you have this person I'd. Never seen her ship before or in any of these people. Really I'd never seen any of them before, and I was like this movie. That's what really sucks me in about movies like this that are kind of same thing with upgrade same thing with nine. It's like you take these lower budget. Movies stick. People in I've never seen before, and it really kind of pulls me in Oscar Isaac and Donald Grayson wherein style was the same year together. I I'd never seen Oscar Isaac before, but I definitely Donald Grayson as bill bill wisely in the Harry Potter Okay I see you I thought you were saying Donald gleason and I was like you fucking idiot and I was like Oh dom hall Dumb Hall. Pronounced Donald Deir. L.. McDonnell you tell me that guy doesn't know how to play back the set of bagpipes. Hate Kilson his fucking closet. You telling me that guy. He doesn't have braveheart on VHS DVD and. There will never take. Free! You tell me that guy doesn't struggle with alcohol. No I'm just GONNA steer. Scottish it's terrible. It's so bad Let me see here, oh! Yeah, so you know they kind of talk, back and forth and get to know each other I love this. He's like yeah so I. Guess we need to break the ice. You know she's like he's you know what that means. Yes emmys, her overcome. Her responses are so quick. Oh Shit like this is really you know I've seen I've watched. Some videos of AI. There is one on like the British version of like the today show. I can't remember what it's called, but they have an. An a on their, who drew the host, and but it's very. It's obviously a robot. You know it's nothing like Eva. That's what's interesting is seeing this, but yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when I watched. This is like not even ten years away. It would not surprise me off. This isn't like a bunker somewhere. You know like flood panels all around it cases. This thing crawls out and choose its way to the surface. You know there's some type of kill button next to this thing in real life. Quick question for you. You'd have told you about like how how close she was to being. You know like a real like real like even go, but she's got like really subtle ticks about that daren't yeah bit robotic. Dear Reckon. That's intentional on Avis Pot like. Do you reckon she is doing that? As like to somehow full caleb to bad because I feel like it would go go against like what she's trying to achieve like which is skype? I think that I think it's maybe a secondary factor of the primary factor which is the performance of? One saver candor its. Candor. I think it's vodka. Yeah, by cantor. Okay! I think it's I think it's mainly just a kind of a performance. Choice I guess, but at the same time I can see where it's kind of, but I think they slowly fade out though as the movie goes on. Yeah, she gets a little bit more advanced like there's a timer. She's like that's not a good basis for a friendship and she kind of squint since like. Oh my God. That's really it was crazy. 'cause I know I'm watching this human woman portray a robot trying to be human, and then as I'm watching it, I forget that she's actually a person and I'm like Oh wait. That's an actress. Fuck that really like fuck me up man one hundred. I don't get lost in the movies like that anymore. And when it happens, I'm like Oh this is so good. I enjoyed it so much total total total immersion. One of my favorite parts is like the ending of this saying when when Caleb says he's GonNa come back and we'll talk again. Her face like lots up and she looks like really of like plays like that that you know he's GonNa, come back and talk to her bit more. And it's interesting when you kinda like. Take the ending into account because she's not really pleased, right, she's on subtly luring luring calebs I guess affection right right. Yeah, well I mean she is. You know very obviously at the end like manipulating him for the reasons can be debated. Are they good reasons like you know, are they? You know I just I. Don't know I think I think there's a middle ground to me that like. I don't know I. Don't know we'll get into it. But. What I I! You know! Yes, she remarks. This conversation. She said she's one. She remarks at his odd. She knows how to speak naturally. She's like you know. She hopes capable. Come back tomorrow. I liked the things. Don't go like balls deep into like intellectual crazy shit like they get they get A. Up with it, but it's literally it's not even. Like, not even a five minute meeting. It's just a few minutes of footage like Oh my God, but immediately they have your undivided attention. It's great. The next day you know. How does she make? You feel? I thought it was just crazy. I was like stick bubble and he's like listen. I can't tell you how she works. Relaxed heard like on right like. Let me whip out my big Dick. Right you know like flop it on the table, but I love. Sorry, go ahead. Oh! No, just about to say literally when I was about to say I love how. Nathan shuts down and he's like dude. I don't WanNa. Talk to you about the specifics. I just wanted to like I. Just want to ask you how you feel how you feel about a right well and I love Oscar. Isaac performance where he he's believably arrogant, but also kind of like. Oh, you simple minded. That's kind of what he comes across as But also Kayla his extreme intellect, the their incredible. The system is stuck. Whatever Sakata yeah, it's non deterministic and I I thought she was maximum from an integral semantic from Cincinnati. Free for all my God dude like that's so heavy, but the great is. It's closing in on Oscar Isaac and you can see him like. Kinda getting pissed and I think he's kind of like. Don't let the genie out of the bottle like I. can't tell you that kind of thing, but I think that data such a subtle thing where you can tell. He's like flocked stupid smart like he knows what is going on, he could. He looks kind of like almost panicked Bach Okay Sir. I'm also wondering and lock. This is again another layer to fucking nights and WHO's grateful guard. Dear reckon that he's also really wanting to talk simplest simplistically with Caleb because he kind of wants human connection, Econo- wants an actual like one on one conversation with someone else is like he's got no one else to do it with like that's why, unlike drinks, these lerna like direct, and he literally just wants to sit down. Have a beer and Mike. Investments on I think for if it were just for social reasons like know what I think that if again the primary reason is for the shift that he's been, you know it's his work, but the secondary's is like and you know if I can hang out with somebody. It's cool. VIBE! Yeah, I. Get the. Like he's kind of killing two birds with one star near right, but but also knowing that eventually this relationship will absolutely dissolve because if everything goes the way. He says it's going. She will actively to see him, and he will actively deceive as well so it's kind of interesting. But the Yeah, it's a great see now. I just love that. He's like you know. How does she make you feel that's an it's i. do think he wants simple. He's a very it. You don't have to get complicated about stuff. Keep it fucking simple and I love that I feel that. She's fucking amazing such. That's such a great line, he. Says sister the looking glass. alice in Wonderland someone yeah. I gotTa Say I. See Okay I. know the timber movies are not great. Okay, that one of those is actually kind of good and I like it, but I think those were called like the the looking glass wars, and as Oh my God that sounds amazing, nor and Alice in Wonderland. That is fucking cool man like like Matthew for Mellish. An already star wars movie, and as I I've always wanted an already ghostbusters movie, and now I want allison wonderland like in war. That sounds so cool. Dude I've seen I've never seen either of the Tim Burton movie or what actually automatically directed the second one, but anyway, I. The through the looking gloss was the title of I. Think What is kind of like universally known as one of the best episodes of lost every time. I hear the words like for the looking glass I just think. Bart and that's all I'm GONNA. Think about I've never seen I've never watched that you know what man like loss went, went off the rails, a little bit, but man like it's. It's still got some of the best character development in any Teixeira. I got older like put that right out there word do. Do you want to just quickly mention kind of. About nine hundred drinking problem yeah I mean I think it's it's subtle, but even here when they're hanging out like calebs got his beer. There's already an empty bottle in front. Of Dayton and you're like shit like that's kind of but I think I think it's one of those things where it's like. You know the mad torture. Genius turns to the you know. He's supposed to be an allegation of like rick and somebody else like that Oscar. Isaac was putting together these like conflicted kind of geniuses. Was I. don't know if I'd say you bricks a genius. Now. Good is. Is Is Israel Matic. As recognize one of the greatest drags fulltime, but you know really love him as much as a lot of cable dairy, but. Like Demi. Don't you wrong like I don't know that's a whole other podcasts like fucking clockwork orange is so disturbing that I've never watched it more than once and I'm like. Yeah, but like, if if that movie scared me so bad and bothered me so bad, that never wanted to watch again. That means he did his Goddamn jaw. Down, that means he's fucking killed it. I wanted to briefly mention I find the drinking, really interesting and kind of like being Nathan's downfall because it's such a. Getting drunk. Being affected by alcohol is such a human issue like such a foreign complication Oh! While I just said that fucking. My series switched on Sir. We just. Off but yeah like I just I i. think it's interesting because it's just such a a human complication that brings them down like you know this guy who like. Spent his entire life. He read the Cardiff that ain't whatever. And brought down by something that is that that affects him humanly. You have some kind of flaw. Like maybe arrogance. But like you have to have some crack in the wall, for Caleb to get leverage into you know. Yeah, some point you've got. A good flaw to have you know it's. It doesn't seem completely random. It seems Kinda like I. Know a lot of people that that are just you know talk fast talking people, but by then when they come home to like I just WanNa smoke, some weed and chill out and turn my brain off. I'm like I get that you know I wonder. His reign probably runs at such a different. Probably higher capacity where he's just using his neo constantly all day that that's I think that's why he also enjoys the. Give me the simple shit because my brain. Just doing this time like let's just cut through the bullshit a little bit. Drink because I mean. Let's fund out. figure out why drinks like doesn't obviously drink, because like because he wants to chill out with Kayla like he doesn't drink socially, I think. Does he drink because he's lonely? Does he drink to pasta time like? Is that a thing like he's? He's here by himself with his work like pretty much all of the time to disease drink because you know it, it takes him to a different state of consciousness and he doesn't have to worry about. I think it's all about self, control and self medication to where it's like you look. He drinks all night, but then the next day he's just pounding it out on the heavy bag. Drinking antioxidants and stuff and I just brown rice and water and it's like. Man That's just from one extreme to the other. You know it's like you. He's he's the one it's like. It's like hydroplaning on the road. And you just jerk to the left in jerk to the right like no, you've gotta like balanced that to keep your car. No. You can't just overreact you get. You have to be proactive, not reactive and realize that you don't need to cut drinking completely. You know you just need to chill off that shit and. Then, of course when he does it, he just drinks like a fucking fish. That that's really what I think. It is I think about self-medication, self control, and trying to keep himself kind of sane, and then also keep himself fit at the same time. You know it's like this is weird. Progressively, but also self destructive tendencies like. Yeah right exactly. Keeping Tom by the way. Kurt Caleb. He, he, he visits the. Opponent hit as where they just kind of cut ends up and his dislike. WACK in one out that guys left arm looks like Popeye. She's just huge fucking arm. Dude I think this is the second. Bring this up like Jira for the. Thing where quagmire discovers Paul. Yeah he just. One huge he's like hey, is he hasn't really slept. Is like is like a just a check checking out So that Internet porn and he goes I'M GONNA go get my mail over there. He lifts up his leg. Just tired. So he sees Avis Room It's really interesting. 'cause we literally watch. Cut The power, but we don't know that she's cutting. The power just looks like she puts her hand on the law. Right when it happens. It's like Oh shit. That's real. Oh my God that right in front of you so good. Oh yeah, because of the power failure, everything goes on auto la Kayla goes to use. The phone doesn't have authorization Nathan like fucking creep up there in the dark drinking alone, Jesus Christ man. But he's so good. I love that he's like who are you going to call? ghostbusters. Ghost gives Dan ackroyd oral sex. Like this, because this is also when. Mentioned says pretty like an uncommitted way. Right like that I'm I'm working on getting the PAL. Fix like dude. If you are Sir secretive about your your your work, and your sir, such a technological genius like if I was Kayla live. I would be that would bring up. Red Flags may dirt I'm just like you're having. powercuts like that is like hey, that is suspicious. Well I think it's also were Caleb says he's like I. Think after the first power outage, Caleb. There's no way this guy again is such a control freak. There's no way he's not recording me some shape, form or fashion. It's rather like a ride, so I think. I think that's like a big thing about it. As well with power outages where he's like there is I can't remember what the like the test is called, but where it's basically like observation tests were. If you know you're being watched, you act differently so I think he just keeps that. He doesn't drop curtain at any point where he knows he's not being watched, you know. Like differences like if you now you're being watched. You have like subtle differences in Ura. You'll movements in the way that you think nominee I. don't give a fuck. No I'm just GONNA. He goes. He goes back to sleep. Kyoko Wakes Halo Bob This woman had a know where. The fuck. It is kind of startling because you're like whoa like who the fuck is that? And she's great. She's I don't know there's something so. Even though somebody who has like no dialogue and like a robot. She doesn't really a moat all that much, but she still a really cool character. I don't know why there's so much misery behind Keough and I think. Is like an her fucking Danson and I'm like. Does she really liked to dance or she just kind of like doing this to please you or like? How does that work? I think the way the the way. The actress chose to play her. It looks like she's in constant pain like you know it looks like. If you were to. If you WANNA. Tell me that someone possessed like the the devil possessed a human's body and controlling the human's body. Like that is the look I would imagine. Would like just constant pain constant like why? Why am I doing this? I don't want to be doing this. It's like it's like constant discomfort breathing. It's like wearing shirt this one size too small and you like. Like I, can't really. Yeah every time I did I just. feel pain for to feel a feel sympathy and like I should like. That's the test of the movie. Right like I like she's a robot I shouldn't feel anything but like. Like that well people. Have Rights That's. Because, you know Kayla or you know that Nathan's to some fucking weird shit she's had lived. God knows what she's had to put up with. The Paul draws a move on her every fucking. Yeah some weird crazy like let me put a plate oranges on your ass and jerk off on Swiss cheese like some weird weird weird stuff. Let me put you in my fucking punching bag. You can take it. kyoko except Caleb the next morning. They Kinda talk, chess, computer, simulation versus actual. Look do me. A favor lay layoff. The Textbook Approach I just want simple answer. Simple questions. Yesterday I asked you how you felt about her, and you gave me a great answer. Now the question is how does she feel about you interesting? I dig that I like the whole I think wolf. It's this, but must be that and I think that's what you want me to ask and he's like no just fucking. Chill like just be yourself, It's it's really interesting. You know, but he doesn't know. Again it's all to make him drop his guard. It's all to keep bringing Kahlo. Don't try to be my intellectual equal. Because you're not like, just be yourself like just chill. It's interesting because like what I was talking about. How the PODCAST POD was like the the turing test it like it's the idea of a simple. You can explain it in one sentence ride like to luck to the I pastas, when can convince a human that it is not a robot? Right like that's best a simple explanation and I think that's how Maytham. Maiden is approaching route his dislike I just want that question answered whereas like Caleb is taking my approach where I'm like well, hold on, there's like different. This is different complexities in answering that one question right and like there's a lot of stuff to consider. So many things to consider Nathan's Waldemar like. I don't think there is I. Think there's just one question you can answer it, and that's what I want done right at, but it's one of the things. Were once you let the genie out of the bottle? You know if you had kept like his Kyoko I was. Kinda surprised the first time. I watched like. So she's an android. I'm surprised because I've seen that. There are other ones, but it's still kind of like Oh. Okay, well, I guess actually makes sense, but you know is uh. Viewer was not one hundred percent that she was a robot I was pretty sure, but I was like okay well. That's kind of nuts so. Personally I think my mom. My mom was life. While I was like what? Your mom, your mom just starts screaming crime. Shot to look away when kick off his skin at the end. Yeah, there's definitely. Yes, I mean that should. We cut to Avis session to Asia. Shows Caleb redrawing, but she doesn't know what it means but she does role every day She asked to be killed. Friend wants to know more about them I'm interested to see what you'll choose I love. She throws that back at him or Dude but. What he says later on is so great. Were that's like in order to do that? She has to have some kind of awareness of me of me proposing that to her. And I was like Oh. That S so fucking good like damn I'd love this. Jed like that is the type of Scifi. That like I live like. It's like a serial killer. Knowing that they've done something wrong. They try to cover up a body. It's like you know no. You threw something back at me because you are aware that I said it and I'm like that's cool. I dig that man. That's really really smart And we kind of learn. About Kayla periods well. Caleb parents and car crash grew up in Portland Oregon. No siblings. Yeah No, no family. parents signed a car crash. A fucking Batman Right. Right. Yeah, exactly he got into coding employer rash like that's important for Mason's yeah background. Check like that. This guy has no one in case he goes missing old. However, he wants despise of Caleb. If his playing goes through right exactly Mary, not married. No parents got into cutting after car crash We see some Avis humanity. You know that's good where you can see her face very subtly berry subtly. What's interesting is when you watch when you re. Watch this and she's like. I I met the scene right now where she's like she's like what are you doing? He's like I'm program. She's like an advanced programmer. Like Nathan and he's like well Kinda and you can look in her face, and she's kind of like pointed. Yes, yes, there is a look of like fuck you. I love that because I think that there's. I don't know, is it? Is it eva going to kill this person? No matter who was the whole time, basically leave them to die. Now directly, Kill Them. You know, but leave them to die it. Is that the case or does she decide to do that later? On as the movie progresses, I think that's something that will have to like. Sit on the back burner and think about towards the end. That's where I kinda wanted life. Pick that up at but I. I think that that's a great thing of like. Would she have done this regardless or was it a choice that she made like this person doesn't deserve or Bubba BUBBA. BUBBA, whatever reasons were was something that would have happened anyway, as or was the character of the person factor in that I think that's interesting. Just put a pin in that for now but I think that's that that requires some chewing on, and we've got like two hours. A movie left GonNa. Interesting I know I know you say something so fucking bad. You're looking at me like rubbing your face scratching your ear. He wants to so bad. anyways. so He seems Yeah. Her eyes seem a lot more sinister after that Caleb likes. Depeche Mode I. Love Depeche Mode Actually I. Fucking Love Depeche Mode of one of my favorite bands. What mode cost with him and call in Fuck you? They do they actually just released like a free live concert? Today or something I can't really have some kind of contest going on, but it was all bad ass. Do they're still going Yeah, he likes to mode of Nathan is with friend. And then, of course we have another power outage. Eva Warns Caleb not to trust Nathan. He is not your friend. Do not trust him That's bad assets of. The plot thickens with gone on vacations rod like I mean. Obviously, this is this is this is all planned. Right like this is all is this is the grandmas the daddy bucket. Nathan's like whole old thing but again like. If you're watching this the first time you're just like Whoa, what's like? Your friend, what and then like? I can't remember what I was thinking. The first time I saw this movie like I had a I had an inkling that black shoes trying to escape like I had a like I knew I knew pretty much immediately that she was the one causing the power outages. That was not a not a surprise to me at all like you know but I I couldn't remember what I was thinking the first time she like. She was like what she stood to gain telling Kayla. That medicine is not his his rent I mean like I kind of like had I was. was like man, maybe unarmed, maybe nine to kill him, but I mean like it's too simplistic. Ma'am I just kind of movie that this is why is she telling Kahlil that, because now as him as him being the only other person she's met she developing something where she's like I. Don't know what this is, but I feel like I should tell you something you know because God knows how Nathan a stock to her to have this guy. Come in who sky? It's nice to meet you and like be nice to you. when the only other person's been ugly. You know it's kind of interesting. And then you know tells them, not trust. Nathan at dinner the next night. Nathan's like. Are you fucking kidding me Home God? Dude, calm down, Bro! Fine Hey just in a ticket. Take a chill pill. Hey Hey. Hey, Hey, no! That's all I was like dude. What the fuck man again! Anger issues control like I mean it's. It's very a lot of them. Go Hand in hand like that like people. Want someone who is little tightly wound like get like I mean. If you if you're the the builder of something as massive is Blue Book you know you're you're constantly wired. You constantly paranoid about. Someone finding out about the top secret. Shit that you're working on. I guess that you'd be. Tightly wound blah. Blah and you know that might be why he exercises like that might be like I mean that's why I exercise on his AI. Exercise my mainly to lose his widened and like you. Physically, like Goddamn fucking Patrick Batman I in my opinion, like as I as I found out. More and more exercise are stressed less like you know. Less about like what I'm doing devices. So that's that's why do it well, then it. Yeah, there's time for like manage. Feel like Shit I'm like if I go to the gym for half an hour Alpha lamaze. That's all I needed. On a rainy day or something? Yeah, I'm like fuck. I just need to go hit hit some cardio. freaks out at dinner. they discuss avis ability to be aware of Caleb. I liked the whole thing where he's like. No, no, no, it's fine. I gotTA do. Jen speak fucking English which is great because trade deals and stuff he's like, but I can't tell one epistolary Kyoko. Go like Oh. What A fucking Dick! Yes, so they discussed her throw joke bag. He said they didn't really talk about anything. During the power outage, he is a terrible fucking liar, and this is the first time he really likes to as. Bad at whatever the power outage, and he takes a bite something he's like what. He's like the power outage. Like what am I like it because I think I, think obviously you know him being a bad lie, but also nights and picks up on the fact that he's lying like Nathan Nathan lawyers immediately back that that he's plan is going to you know it's coming to fruition. Run Right now. One hundred percent and you can tell he's a terrible liar. Jesus Christ man. You got to be quick. You can't ask people to repeat stuff you gotTA. Keep eye contact. You don't shuffle around a whole lot. Get a Lotta Gresh. Yeah exactly. you need to be a debt collector. So the next day Nathan explains how to. Yeah. This is where they go downstairs and they were kind of showing the How however came to be which is interesting because he's like I can't tell you how she works. I'm GonNa show you everything though. But I can't tell you how she works. I like to scene. It's not bad, but I don't you know I don't really need this. I guess it's just it's just interesting. You know talking how tapped into everything you know how he tapped into the phones all over the world. I liked that bass locked the fact okay. I mean I. It is entirely. Entirely realistic to me that he was able to that. The creator of Google was I was a tap into every phone on the planet, and that Dada to fade into his artificial intelligence that is building and the companies. The phone companies are K with it. That is right, same realistic to me, which is should not be realistic to me. Batch would be such a lofty. Lofty science fiction concept, but in two thousand and twenty that is entirely realistic tomato right now one hundred percent at the end user agreements that you're constantly signing up to and pressing I agree to these terms and conditions that that is all in the. That's all in the right. Yeah, well, that's the thing to. It's just one of those double. You know. I might go. Go Down, but you'll go down with me thing between him and the phone companies and stuff and what one thing that I actually do like about the scene where he's like see. My competitor's only cared about social media, shopping ads I. Don't. I didn't really care what they were thinking about. I wanted to know how they were thinking. That is cool like not. Nobody knows wire thinking about you know I say the Color Orange and you're all of a sudden thinking about you know who cares. What what? How did that happen as like? That's cool. I dig that. Eva Session number three. Avis says she wants to go people watching if she could leave a shows Kayla what she would wear on their date and she confronts Kahlil, about his feelings for her She admits that she hopes he's thinking about her as well outside the test. And so, what did you think about this I kind of now? We're getting deeper into the level of like she goes. This is where she puts like the WIG and stuff on, and she actually like dude. Viscaino, short hair, a smash, fucking Ashraf Dude so super super fucking smash. This is the difference between now out taste in women. Because I am all about I'll I'll I'll did smash when she walks out like when she's got the long hair and shit dude. I mean. Don't get me wrong. I mean obviously yeah. Beautiful just absolutely beautiful woman I could totally see this being you know I would love to see a short film conversation between her and joy from twenty forty nine like blade runner twenty four I'd love to see them. Sit Down and talk to each other is obviously more. What's her? You really need to watch her because. If you if you put a scholar Hansen's character in that movie and joy from twenty, forty nine and Haza I think that would make for a fantastic infielder her like honestly good I've always wanted to see likes who? Bishop from Aliens and Roy Batty from Blade runner. Sit Down to talk to. You have to people that are basically the same, but on total different ends of the spectrum. I think that's so interesting about. Just incredible performances to my favorites. I've I performance. It's just wish a man can dream. What do you? What do you think about a choice of I mean the first place that she will go if she was admitted late like their traffic. Could shake paypal watch yeah. Because it's kind of one of those things where if you've never you know if you've never done something before. A lot of people have the tendency just to go, you know balls deep into it I think that you know obviously with certain except expect you know. I'm sorry. exception. Sorry couldn't fucking thinking the word us totally just like blade because I was like well. What's a bad thing to jump into head? You know head first cocaine and depot. Like Shit like that just like you know, that's what's interesting about. It is I think that she just wants to be dropped right in the middle aged to absorb, but then be also to disappear and see that she can sit in this crowd of people and people not notice her, and just just you know like anybody else out here, but what? What drives that she she curious like I'm wondering because like if she's curious, then that's a very human thing. The human characteristics have right here are so. Yeah I. think that sorry like I. It's like I did. It's the it's the thing with Mary and Black and white room like color. The color is people, and she has seen and heard and listened in saw so much stuff like. Have you ever read the giver by Lois lowry ton of reds. It's a movie to Yes. I never saw the movie but I think the book came out like early. A great fucking book I've got the Audio Book entity. But. It's the same thing of society where they don't have kids physically they don't see color. There's no like real like love alike. Now every all the families are like assigned to each other and shit like that but there's you know they pass the memories on from the giver to the receiver, and even though he's never experienced these things like having sex or doing any of this stuff, he knows about it, so it's kind of it almost makes me robocop when he's like they're talking. Talking about his family and he's like I can feel them, but I can't remember them. That's one of my favorite lines in any movie ever and I think that's what's kind of interesting, and she's like I can remember them but I can't feel them. It's like I've never felt that before. Like how awful it must be to have a handful of experiences that you've never had like that's like I. think that it's hurting I. Want to go because I don't know I can tell you. I I can I can try and summarize what it's like and what it's about, but I can't really be one hundred percent sure because I've never experienced at its so am like had be Slyke fucking just like stumped watching. That's incredible I think that's so cool how she has so much shit more knowledge than any Walking on two legs has in the world has never stepped foot outside this wallets fucking incredible i. think that's so cool. Absolutely like that. Want and Neetu to lend more absolutely what? You're one of the things that I really wanted to point out is like when she's picking at out the clothes when she specifically which is picking out the whigs. It looks like she's trying to like she's making a conscious decision as to which wigged to to select like she's of like running a hand of h one. What do you think the thinking about like? The thinking is behind that because like that was really interesting to me like she's a robot, she should just be able to be like. This is the way that I want I like I. Like no, this should be like. taking the time to consider which wig to put on I, mean like that that is one of the sequences in this movie that really truly stumps me. I think it could be either what? The first impressions a big impression, so it's like what do I know about Caleb that Caleb with like you know? What do I think on an educated guess I think that's part of it, but I also think that you can look at it either one of two ways, either it's the first real chance. Since she's had of like expressing herself or she, everything is deliberate and use as some kind of ploy to get him. You know to get him onboard. that. It's definitely possible either way, but I think that I think. It really comes down to that. What was her choice and in doing it? You know because obviously like we're talking about. Does she really make the choice at the end? Was this person died the whole time, or does she choose to do that? Off of what she saw so the same way as she choosing something based off of what he likes origin. which did she already have something in mind? I think it can go either way I. Don't think I think that's the beauty of it is that they don't answer that and they kind of leave it up to you as like it because it breaks down, is she? Creative is she actually like that? Or is everything more deceptive in that way you know because if you think like that, it makes the ending make a little bit more sense issues that deceptive, well, it's interesting because like when she goes to pick out the whigs, she is completely observed Caleb Con- see who I like. Pick out pick out the way, so she's not like putting on some kind of like Theodore. She's not like putting on some kind of like I've specifically charged this thing like electric. Trick him into like there's a lot of thought. Put into it, but I mean at the same time. We have to remember that that that Nathan specifically made her. Attractive to Kayla right like if they of one such as in so sir, I mean again I'm I'm still like I kind of can't come to a conclusion as like like Alex through this in for a reason I just started i. what I think that it's a strong indicator that calebs porn searches are Natalie Portman short hair phase after me for vendetta. That's definitely and I gotta say. Paper through that you. Good, God especially got that fucking awesome Pixie cut that's drill and Pixie cut. But? Yeah, but she called Shrill calls him out. She's like you know the way you hold my gaze in the way you don't the way you're you know you, you hold you know your look on my is on my lips and stuff, and he's obviously extremely uncomfortable and she flat out says she's like you know this is. Why would wear on our date? I would like to go on a date with you Do you think about me when we aren't together? You know she's fucking driven. Right now is ridiculous. looks like motor oil. Yeah. Yeah and she said He. She hopes that he is thinking about her as well at the end of that session. I guess a same day next day. Caleb Nathan Discuss Avis. Sexuality Nathan Explains at Ava does indeed have the ability to have sex Caleb. Confronts Nathan About having a program report with him What type of girl? No Salad Dressing Nathan explained she was programmed heterosexual and uses the Jackson pollock as an example. Will Not as an example of heterosexuality, but you know what I mean. What do you think about this in between because I'd like Nathan being like, and you know you're kinda getting on my nerves. You know he's like you're starting to annoy me and it's like I like that. He's kind of honest about that like you're pissing me off, you know like this is not not everything is about you, but it is like you totally did math this person out like that's kind of what I don't. Get using her sexuality, but if it's a true test of like her using sexuality someone, but you catered this to this person. No, it seems like it's a little bit too. In your favor. You know what I mean. Now that that does make sense like there is a little bit of bias playing because he's the one engineered the situation right like I mean like. I don't know there's not really that much of a defense that. To be honest, but like it look I. Like what like what's happening here in this conversation because? I'm actually on Nathan side here. Like Caleb is turdly insecure like turn Caleb like the way he talks about you know like I was not programmed to be heterosexual nar like like that is like kind of like his insecurities coming into a dirt he's. Like, he's like I'm not I was not driven I was like not driven to go this way and Nathan's whole thing is like well. Yeah, you are like like a robot. You programmed right exactly like that. That's just whatever your predispositions are whatever. Affinity for women short here is I cannot explain that to you any shape, form or fashion you know I have I have absolutely no idea. Tell you why I like Michael Bay but I will try. I'll try I'll try and explain myself. Yeah, what do you think about his kind of example with with Jackson Jackson pollock the? An interesting. Yeah, really interesting to like just the way that it's like you know like Jackson pollock would paint automatically, and if you took away that order like automatic element of it would be through calculated ob to it'll be two predetermined like you know like like the the automatic. -Ness of it just is so I like what I'm doing right now. I'm having a hard time explaining it. Because the automatic part of it is the pot that you cannot explain it's his humor. Right instinct. What what yeah, it's. It's like why did you pick the the white shirt over the blue or the gray or the black? Like why you know it? Just whatever 'cause you felt like doing it that day. There are so many especially with being like you know just being human. There's so many different variables with that. You know you might feel better today than you did yesterday or worse, and there's so many different variables to change with that, and that's experts, really interesting to me and I love, he says the balance between. What was natural like what what just came automatically and what was deliberate? You know that fine. He led his mind. Go blank and his hand go, where at wanted not deliberate, not random, but someplace in between. That's fucking cool I. Really dig his using this. This this analogy to explain that. was attraction dekalb Israel right like you saying that book? The I acts of aren't accord, It's not afraid predetermined like plan or anything like that like I think that what she has is legit, right? It's basically like what kind of agnostic people like yeah, there might be a god, or maybe God did create people, but there's no divine intervention you know like. I've always kind of thought well, that's plausible. You know that kind of serves both like yeah, you're right. There is a God, but. There's not like you know this is not our life is not a you know. Heavenly Dnd game where people rolled ice and we fight monsters. You know it's like you know because. There is no god. The now the. Interesting thing on, yeah, there's as we cut to EVA session. Four Caleb starts with the Mary in the Black and white room I had to fuck and read about this shit and I was like what the Hell is he talking about you know? I really dig this I did the whole thing about Mary in the black and white room were basically. It's kind of what we got into earlier. You know you have your whole life. You studied something that you've never experienced. That's that's basically you know it'd be like having you know how. Trying to think of the, it's almost like astronauts where you train how to do something, but you can't really do it more than a handful of times. You know what I mean, but they've trained their asses off in simulation to do it That's it's kind of like. You ever seen deep deep impact, the not the more non A. Long time on a long. Right but Robert. Duvall is like even though he hasn't trained. He's landed on the moon and yet. None of these people have ever been into space before, but they've trained, so it's kind of A. I think that's interesting. Versus like you know exp- added. There's an interesting kind of trade off there. That I really like That's basically what I took away from Marion, the black and white room like did what did you think of this like analogy? It explains it definitely explains the end, and it explains the reason why Abba like the first place she wanted to go. She would want to go is a traffic intersection prior to me like you full you know is the colored black, and then you're going to know when you when you when you step out of that room, you're going to be like absolutely blown away when you discover that there's a whole spectrum of right. It was a it's A. It's a really interesting analogy in. Like I think it. One hundred percent applies to I've official. Like I was like again I'd never heard of it as well before the movie like I was like what the fuck is he talking about? Their like? This is such a weird weird concept, but it it it it one hundred percent, encapsulates Eva, and like what she what drives her to escape. What why why she wants was guide like Shaw that Caleb has no idea that she wants to skype this very moment, but like. It explains so much the raising. Like Avis reasoning to get out to get the fuck. Outta here explained expo the world like when she gets out she she looks at a world. That's would live. She looks at the jungle when she's just totally enamored by it and like that. Tomato I I smiled I'm just like man like this is right literally. What they going full, yeah? I definitely agree with you, The. Yeah so he kind of talks to her about Marion my room, and he just lays it out. He tells he he's there to test her. What she does do. Stan this is a standout scene for for Viking Lander in his amazing. That is so good another power outages. I love that you know even tells Caleb that Nathan tells lies. is the one who is causing the outages via her batteries of actually no I'm actually one more not. Let me. Wait. Which one is sorry I have all the sessions like broken up on my note, and it's like so hard to keep track because it's like fucking. Full is the one. Session five is the one that I'm like fuck so hard for it, so we'll get. We'll get to the besides. Has that really good shot I think it's fifty one impose on fifty one minutes ten seconds. And, literally you know aside on shot, a profile shot of like haven, and then you've got the gloss politician in the middle, and the needs up the the profile shot of of of Caleb, sitting there in the gloss box, and it looks like if you had noor context and you were asked a question, who is the prisoner? Who was the interrogator I would like without hesitancy and saw that either is the entire Guida and the prisoner. Is Caleb right? It's all about perception you know 'cause when it comes to his point of view, she's back behind the glass you know. The I. I absolutely love this You know this whole scene is is really really really good And we find out that she is legit. The one causing the power outages. She. Can you know her? Where I wonder where her batteries go, I was just like it's not like an xbox clip on the back. You just pop it open. Those bad boys out. Like like built in like like playstation ones where it's like you know like you, you can't replace the batteries. They're just like you know. You just plug in a wire and it's all inside there. Yeah. I was just wondering about that Yeah Nathan tells lies, and she's the one who's been causing the outages. What do you say? Do you want to take a break here? I need to Piss Sir fucking cool. Yeah, now we're. We're pretty much I mean we're. We're like an hour into this bit, so now's a good time. We're. Right now's the time to get squeezed. guys. We will be back. Don't go anywhere combination with the second part of our coverage of X. mackinaw. Hello. Hello, everyone, breaking into the middle of your feature presentation episode at the first time for me, actually jumping on the mid roll, so fingers crossed now. Guys were just here to jump in. If you WANNA, find us on a neighbor. socials were facebook, and then I double feature. The group attached. I called the after party. Everybody's invited. You can find us on Instagram at midnight. Double feature or twitter at MDF pod. We're also on I. Tunes were on, spotify were on Youtube. You can find anywhere that you guys. Get Your podcast and Please stop by reviews on I tunes. Give us five stars. Let us know how we're doing or if you haven't requests or any criticism midnight double feature. Dot Com currently. We've got some stuff. Cook it in the fought. We've got you know had quite a few guest spots legally, and we've been doing some cool shit. Just kind of behind the scenes there's. Some stuff coming up soon. Just a little, just a little teaser NAB while this. Leave it there for now but I gotta turn it over to. Because we do have something we can actually tell you. We do as long as we can tell you and I. Mean Look you're not going to. Look I guess if you feel listened to the podcast. You're probably GONNA know, but how the best best way to keep up with this that I'm about to talk about is being announced that you just mentioned We have patients common so excited, so we have to. Like I i. it never have never seen that I think we're going to do much. Indus- like that. I would like. Why am I? Like you know, the where the funnels, disavow testing size for that, and we should be ready to roll out really really certain sir. Do you guys want to get may not double feature swag. That's coming your way. Real San Awesome guys. Why don't we jump back into this movie? Thanks for listening thus far we'll see on the other side. Gentlemen Welcome back coming at you with a second half for coverage of X.. Machi, now because we are freshly squeezed as we always like to say, dried up like the Bruins We were jumping right back in here. This kind of hike. That that Kayla beneath and we're going on this nature hike. That's just looks like they climb to the fucking top of Mount. Everest like this looks like a duck and fifteen mile hike that they just pulled looks like like tizzy that like lying by like glaciers and stuff, but I'm dislike what you know. It's like if you look over like ten feet, there's fucking Duncan Macleod and Ramirez from highlander like training like it seems like their way fucking out there. But this is where you know. CALEBS like listen. This is bullshit. I'm not didn't win anything. I was not randomly selected. You COULDA had some fucking idiot. Show up! You know you selected me in anything. Kind of Bullshit Samir is like your rights because you're smart, you know it's it's you know it's an honor it's you shouldn't look at it. As like deceptive Blah Blah Blah kind of trying to spin it when it is deceptive, and he has been chosen for a reason, but it's like every time Caleb gets close to the truth Nathan. kind of has dislike little. Yeah, you're right, but for good reason you know like. He's always I kind of his. Right you. You caught me on my bullshit, but bullshit for like a good reason, but he's honest about it. He's not like mad. About. He's just like you know what you figured it out. Cool good for you I like that he doesn't actually respect him to some degree not to just like bullshit I'm you know and deny he's owned up to it? This is an amazing. It's kind of like right Lacombe, indicas ride, he he. He tells he admits that he tries to come, but he also says it's because you're one of the most talented curtis in the company, but that's a half. Ruth like he might. Riot talented CODA and like know. Nathan letter admits that he is not the smartest like the best card Pretty good. Pretty good so he's kind of giving him. Half truths like to push way wants to go and kind of also making making Caleb aware that Nathan is somewhat deceptive, but at the same time being truthful at the same time right well it. It's a half truth half. Y where it's like you're still getting what you want, but I'm getting what I want like what you might still have more information, but I'm still the one in control. And interesting dynamic right. There is an this scene is amazing. The next thing coming up where after they have like their adventure time hike. The these kind of flashes of of Nathan with Kiyoko, and then we also see Yeah, the what's interesting about the the the the kind of juxtaposition between these as we see Nathan, and he's like and full color, and he's punching this bag, and there's Kiyoko and kind of get sexual engaged, but we see like it's all physical. It's all karnal. The punching bag the sax like Blah, but then when we cut to calebs thing, it's a romantic, black and white thing, but that's what's interesting, too just like it's black and white too I. Think also to symbolize like to like this is. Extremely like lonely, this is like the robotic way. This guy is looking at this kind of like quote. Unquote love that he's feeling and it's not sexual. It's not I. WanNa Fuck your brains Alibaba like he is there. You know he's like fully clothed like just kissing looks like the front of like an indie album cover from the early two thousands. Real Cornel. You know sexual dream stuff that he's happening. You know I just thought it was really interesting. Kind of cut between the two of them. yeah I fully a fully agree with that because it's such a good way to show you how these to. Have these two men. Approach artificial people like in a hit. Tonight then it's like you know I just Wanna I just WanNa take Keiko and his faulkner. That's it. That's all I. WanNa do whereas like. puck in the Goddamn forget his name. The Way Kayla repurchase is I it's. It's thoughtful it, sir, you know there's like thinking feeling behind like it's. It's very beautiful as very you know. It's not as aggressive as like Nathan's one is you know if you look at night and the way he you know finishes the punching bag in and turns it Kiara. He literally takes care goes hand, and like put like pulls it puts it toil to to his face. Like you know there's that. That whole forceful action of like here, not wanting to be a part of this, but she has to, because she's programmed his way, whereas like foam for Caleb. It's like I'm a perching a the. It's really wide shots that look really really fantastic but like whatever and I have, it's consensual well what he sees as consensual like right away. Take away the whole in our Avon wanting to manipulate Kale Element. but essentially on its face. It is consensual. I wonder I mean 'cause you know the Nathan's just raw dog, and and you know enough pulling out. You don't get his kind of like yeah sort of like a filtration unit on these things or like like. How does that work I? Like there's like there's a button that you press. The fucking come just drips out. Yeah exactly. Correct. After that Nathan Rips Up. Avis picture and off fucking Dancefloor Goddamn Dude. Shit they're like how. Will be in Michael. Jackson's thriller fucking video is sorry. Good Saga that just no not self conscious at all just just total. On their amazingly seeked up like the two of them. It's so good, and but it so like what the fuck! This is dark and you know she's obviously not that into it or even if she is, you programmed her to really be into it so either way. It's kind of like dark and fucked up, but at the same time. It's like so awesome like you're watching like do. This is a bad ass, seen and of course you know he's fucking drunk. Shit like the the hard cut to them. Walk down the hallway and he's like the. fucking like sick. But. I don't WanNa go past Kayla like telling like talking trying to have a conversation with. Brian CURCAS early early. Thing is like I'm just GONNA. Remove my shut because that's all I know what to do like you know it's it's. It's kind of disturbing that I. Guess It's Super Fucking. Right well, it's like yeah. That would be awesome in the right context. You know this is not the right content. Jim Her fucking beautiful woman. I'm just GONNA put out the GEICO right. I would love to have seen Nathan since in her like I want you to try and to scale of NC how Caleb would react knowing that he has feelings for Eva. Would he be like? No like I'm spoken for? You know like what like? ROBOT WOMAN MY LIGHT But of course you know, they stay up there kind of draken. He gets totally sloshed and always this. Where is this for? Caleb takes Nathan ski or this where he just drops, it gives back to them so I think this is where Yeah Assay off the off the Dan. Slow saying you get the whole Yeah, like he's. He drops it and. And gives it back till nine, Nathan guys, and collapses on his bed and she locked that that's right. Okay, I get these two confused because there's a lot of similar shit so but you know he's looking at. He's like Oh yeah, they're just clouds. It's definitely not like Dahmer. There's definitely not like a dahmer pile back. There have just fucking bodies you know. This is crazy. Knowing he's that closed all those bodies in the drawers and the closet and stuff. It's extremely weird. and. Yeah, we cut to EVA session. Five EVA is testing Kayla calling him out as he lies about favorite colors and past memories. But things go dark. She asked him about the ramifications of for failing his test. This is the shit that I fucking love. This is such good out of out of survey vessels that brings up like darn lie to me because I can tell you're lying of the micro expressions and all that stuff, too. What a what a uniquely robotic characteristic to point out to the person that is testing year to say whether you're going to pass a human like. Right well. There's something so interesting to where he's like. Yeah, can we stop this? This is not and she kind of stopped presenting. She's like no like this. This is important. Re I really dig that and her whole response as you can see her getting fucking mad and what about you you know? Why is it up to anyone? Do you have people test? You might switch you off. That is so reminiscent of what Roy. Batty says right before he grabs. Decker is just like painful to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it means to be a slave and you're like that is so. So strikingly similar to what is going on with Kyoko and Eva I love that she he she. Do. You have people that test you is like? No, so then why do I and it's so fucking good? And she shows him the ripped up picture. Such a really really really great seeing I I absolutely love this and seeing her actually get kind of like mad about it is just amazing. Another outage chits and she asked Caleb if he wants to be with her. That's so get into just cuts away. Like doesn't really show exactly what happens. It's so good. The following morning Nathan, says his next model will probably be the one admitting it will essentially erase Eva. I am become death, the destroyer of worlds Dirt faulk such a good man, such an insight. It's like Oh, we didn't. We didn't really talk about it. We kinda wind pasta the whole. How just inflated? Nathan's head gets when when Caleb says l. you God where he didn't. I didn't I'm not a really cool you. But it's just like you'll like. He is so eager driven. Just sir, like driven and fuelled by a guard. Because like he is the smartest man in the broom like like. There's no doubt about it, but the fact that. Like the fact of it is, he knows that like you know, he's just such a a pace of shit. Who is who I? Who is like? I know that spot has been in the room and I'm not afraid to show it right well, then like literally the the drunk on power, and then the actual being drunk on substance. You know it's interesting Yeah, and I love the whole thing. He's like I'm there you are Mr quotable? He's like. Yeah, that's not my quote. You know that's what he's like. Yeah Oppenheimer Dude I know. There's something where it's like. Yes, it's condescending from Nathan, but it's also kind of condescending from Kaelin like Oh. Yeah, you don't know that quote that quoted Dude. I know that quote. You do that like we're not. We're not tech geniuses like that's pretty common knowledge. You know you know, but he's like Eva. She doesn't existing. Continuation even more than you know Then you know we have version nine point six nine point seven nine point eight super. Interesting scene, it's really good. I I like this. A lot of this is where Nathan after he gets stinking drunk and Caleb Still Keycard, leading to some horrific discoveries, Nathan's computer, Oh, and in his runner, God holy Shit Oh, Shit. This is like film like a horror film. Dude, I love it. It's just like the way that the music ramps I wouldn't talk okay, but we didn't. We didn't. Didn't talk about the school for this movie by the way school for this and the way that Aram Sop in Marmoset year that Alex Garland needs. A tour is absolutely fantastic, and this is where you know other than the end This is the way it's most memorable to email like just the way it kind of like architects everything that you say it seems like you're watching A.. Kaban to flake or West Craven Flake with a fucking. The volume of the score is ramped up and outside much horrific nece to what's going on and what's playing onscreen, and like what we should be like much of this again. I'm watching my parents and like you. Just you just said to. You just said it like you just talked about the whole. HOW HORRIFIC! What's playing out? ONSCREEN is but again they're just ride bots. are like like the fact that we have an emotional response to how like what Caleb is watching and what he is seeing onscreen like the fact that we have in Russian responsible by response to that is a testament to the movie and Alex Gallons achievement in making us feel sympathy for these robots, which was shouldn't like I. Mean like I don't feel sorry for my computer because it doesn't have fucking face on it right? Yeah, I think I think there's something interesting like you know I am a something that is not self aware. Is You know it's hard to kind of feel that you know? Does my e even though my you know. Know I talked to Syria I talked to Alexa. They're not alive. They know their programs. You know versus this like I am conscious of the fact that like I can feel fear I can fill these things once we start to kind, it's the same. It's almost like with animals. You know it's the same thing. A lot of people are like well. You know there's not quite yes, but it is an aware animal and aware of people and surroundings, and has needs and wants and especially when you make something that's data advanced like these row like these robots. I mean I think it's a given that they're going to. Have you know some kind of. Trying to think of the right word, a different viewpoint and a different in different motives An- actions in their program to be you. Can't you know if you make a toaster? A toaster that fine, but if you give her a toaster free will, it's not going to be a fucking toaster anymore, so you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't make this like all knowing. CINCI and AI and expected to stay in a room. Yeah, it's not gonNA work that that's like stupid to begin with and I. think that's a big reason why. He's out here. If this thing fucking does get out, good luck getting off the island. You know there's no way even if I die. You're not getting off this island. You know you're. You'RE GONNA. You'RE GONNA. Die, the know as an AI. And of course, the scene with Kyoko where she pillinger skin often shed. This looks like the Asian Aubrey Plaza. That's talking about how God she's such a smoke show is. Again like what I was talking about like how we feel sympathy for the robots. Again, I'm watching this with my parents and fucking kiosk is splayed out live air like Luckett. Like, naked as as negative today like the day she was born. Volvos just like out. Like my parents like whatever Alec fucking laws, but they're like you know they just like. Turn away because it's awkward like the why? She's like lying down and I'm just like I literally tend to them, and I said okay. She's a robot. She's a robot. So why do we like? Why do we as humans feel naturally? Awkward and uncomfortable like you know like. She's not someone who is embarrassed about her. By the fact that she's out here in a birthday. Sir like she's someone who is. WHO HAS Against sensitivity about that. You know like she doesn't give a shit. So what do we give a shit? Yeah, it's like I. Think with Kyoko. It's a very. It's a very different story where you know, but does she give a shit? Because at the end she totally conspires with EVA, so it's like to some degree to disagree with you like some degree. I think that true because there is something in her that I mean, she fucking stabs him. It's like there's gotta be some kind of like motive in their wrists. Like I want the Fuck Outta here man I. Don I'm tired of being a fucking. A glorified flashlight I WANNA get the fuck Outta here. Because I I think that once. Asia is invented as well and then you bring in Caleb. It's like okay something like not right here like we bring in someone. WHO's a little bit more centered? I guess like but I think I think it becomes interesting once you add Kayla in the mix because now they see you give them even just a taste of what the outside world is like, and it's like it's like putting blood the water. You know they're gonNA come for that Shit I. Don't I would, too. I think I think there's something interesting like no, you know once something has I think once something becomes self aware want something knows i. I am something that exists in a society with others I can. I can help or harm or build store your Blah Blah. That's when it becomes tricky with like destroying that person. Because if you're self aware, you are aware of a possibility of. Of Destruction and I think that's what's interesting about. That is like if if that's the case, if there is a fear of death, then that I consider to be like if you fear some kind of debt than I think that kind of gives you more of a conscience, which eva definitely, she's like I don't WanNa die. You know that that's what's so interesting about that is like. She doesn't want to dive these other. Literally broke to pieces, just trying to get out and say holy. Shit you know, and how old is Eva? She one day she one week as she one month. You know she just says one. Do you don't know how long that timeline she is before she just like cracks, her head open like a fucking Omelette just banging up against the door. I think there's something interesting about that. the fear of death with that comes with you know if you don't fear, that's really no. I'm a program then it's like. Fuck you, I. Don't care you know but I, think there's something interesting about her fear of dying in that especially with the scene. That's coming up after Yes, so yet. He's in Nathan. Awakens Justice Kahlo comes back. He gives them his car in acts like he dropped it on the floor, and then Holy Shit with like Caleb. What did you think about the scene of him? Cutting his flesh opening shit this if I need it I didn't hate it, but I didn't head. It actually love the idea of like him going absolutely Sir Haywire and paranoid that may be his starting to consider that as a a robot as well I actually really really loved that and like. I love that like you know He. He's not able statement mind like he's saying Kiara literally off his skin by the way that close up shot of like. Staring. At the metal like Hof Metal House like skin, scary, looking horrifying, but yeah yet try fucking that. Can get it up, but. I, just I don I. Needed because it's not fully fleshed out in the film like you know, it's like there's no. There's not previous sane to indicate that maybe like Caleb is Aurora like a Westworld kind of. A little bit, there's no Kinda like westworld situation where you not You know what Caleb is like a doubting. He's earned existence like there's none of that so I really like native but I am Kinda. Glad it's in here because it makes for some fucking horrifying in history, it makes the some horrifying thought process like. Because honestly if you all Kayla in this situation, if I'm going here to do this tearing test if I find out that. Someone that I've interacted with a couple tons of find out that she herself is a robot that I'm GonNa. Be Wondering like I will on I think it's a realistic I. Think it's a realistic A realistic idea like honestly that that he's Kinda saw. Yeah, you solve existence. I earned need him slitting his vein. Deeply I mean I'm pretty. I'm pretty sure just to cut on your on. The Edgy Fingertip will tell you that you are human really. Really know about that been go go for like the shoulder. Don't! Why are you go with the arm? Vein like and he goes down the lane, not across the road and he cuts right on. The, you know what? Looking into the MIRA before before he does slice into his wrist Did you notice like this static kind of affect that the mirror has on his face like as he's like looking at. Because that that affect comes up brought in the saying the movie when he's looking through. What he's looking at his fire, so it's like it's kind of like that says me is kind of like Nathan has been watch again all along like Nathan's being planned manipulating him all along which we know that he has, but it's still such a great visual idea of like playing that out right now. One hundred percent I think there's something now that I think about it. How crazy the movie benefit were like! You are the turing test. She isn't a I in. Advance version of that I. Like Oh shit like I. Don't know it would be one of the things for like now. You can't believe anything. There's like no solid ground to stand on anymore. You know it's still it's cool. It's a cool idea. I think it's kind of like the idea that deckers replicant, but he's like a nexus, eight or nine. No use this right he's. He's like so much more advanced I love later on her twenty forty nine. Because you just know that Kate is replica. We not immediately from the same like right right off the lights out. In. What's his David Davis? Guy? Guy, we find out immediately like within cells into linked within cells into like we know immediately. Yeah, so I'll I'll develop. Nerve didn't guy for the whole like is he is an economy thing, but like yeah, I think you're right because the whole movie Senate around the Turing Test and I love the idea that may be like like. Maybe Nathan is doing the turing test on him right? Yeah, but doing it to him without having him being an AI okay cool. I like that that's neat. And Yeah APIS session six Pretty much get in there. He's could switch. Caleb? I sound plan. I'm going to get NATE DRUNK GONNA. Get his card. I'm going to reprogram the security and opened the doors right after Abe triggers outage, says be there at ten o'clock sharp. And The red light to him, and said that either that that such measures would ride just law so crazy. Good like such a good like representation of like something sinister like you know like something. Like something you last year right? Yeah, and something like not supposed to be nine. I love it. This is right. Here is the fruition of the tearing test like this is? Where we finally see that you know as has been able to manipulate Caleb and the turing test has worked like she has positive test right? Yeah, exactly although all those seeds have come to fruition Yeah, Okay Louis Plan. off to a bad start as Nathan actually turns down a drink, Brown, Rice and middle. Okay. That's you and you can see you know. He's like you don't WanNa. Drink and he's like no I love San. I just love who is like you WANNA drink. Knock yourself out. Right it's like it's like in misery. When Annie Wilkes knocks over the wine with all the pills in it, and you're like no faulk thanks turn a little weird, or Nathan proposes that Eva is merely using caleb as a means of escape. It's really interesting, too. Because Nathan is very thinly veiled being Dick, and he's like what happened about the chess problem by what about that? Oh, well! Yeah, I mean. She must be pretty awesome. Then on, you're like. Do this fucking Jacobs up. SIP on the vodka and he's like. How's your guys like? You're a fucking bastard I'd like you know where this they just they just cut the bullshit and like in this scene when they're in the kitchen is are. Is it supposed to be known right here? It's like so now. Nathan is aware of your plot, or is it supposed to be afterwards when he shows them the footage? I kinda right your. Hey! I think it's a night. The knows because Nathan Nathan has been building up to this point. Nathan has been building up to the whole thing last night a Var. US Caleb or Kayla rather officially tells C. is hey. I'm getting you out of here. You know like this is the plan I'm getting you out of here. Like Nathan has been building up to that moment, so the entire film like he's been building up. He's been building up full caleb to offer a away out like you know so the the fact that it's happening the fact that it's like come to fruition Nathan's. Nathan's like all right, so you're going to go behind my back. I needed this coming. I planned this whole long and I think he kind of like brings down their appropriate measures. Ride like that for that plane not to work like he's like I'm not going to I'm going to drink because I. Know exactly what your point is, so he got right one hundred percent. I think there's there's something interesting as well Wind is not a circle. There's no no. Consequence like I started. Doesn't that coincidence? Sorry against? It's yet when boy then he start acting really weird when you know you can. He's not trying to be a good liar. Right here. He's trying to be actually kind of like dude. Come on, yeah, come on, you know what's up and it's. It's really interesting, too. When he actually he's like man, he's like your head. She's been fucking with you. Man Like it's you know it's cool and he's actually surprisingly. Do, not get it man. She's been fucked with your head. That was the point. That's the whole point. Yeah, he actually kind of feel. Sorry for him. You know a Chimera. Let you off the hook. It's kind of like wrapping a kid on the knuckles and sending them on their way kind of. But Yeah I. in the Kiyoko Meeting. That is such. Who are you I'm like Oh my God. You haven't met this person like it kind of blows your mind when you think about it like do. She's been there since Yoko. was we see Kiyoko before we see Asia and that's what's interesting is when they finally meet, and it's like these two powerful I. Dunno female. I've in. Who are you and they're kind of like sizing each other up. I think that's so fucking. Cool I think it's interesting. I mean sorry just jumping back to Nathan Caleb in the kitchen. Yeah, because Caleb Nineteen is going to let Caleb. Like united is life, and says look, Hey, man, the helicopters coming here at eight o'clock. I can allow stay like he's. He's GonNa. Let go like I fully believe I. Full at this point I fully believe that Nathan is going to let Caleb. Go like now that he knows that the test has worked like you know it's, it's gone. It's all gone to plan. Blah Blah what Nathan wasn't counting on was just how determined Caleb, was he get out of there like you know like just? How does how smart because obviously underestimate Kayla? MEDI-CAL BECAUSE KAYLA was Roy laws not like. Nathan Nathan miscalculated the human element of someone caring for another person or other robot that he that he thought he was able to control. This was like well. You know whatever going to Spank your awesome the way I'd like to have a good one. You'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA fly on the helicopter, but he wasn't reliant. He wasn't relying on just how much How Much Caleb actually? Kes- were also I, think two things like you said say completely underestimates him. I mean more so intellectually, but I. It's not even like an intellectual thing to be like I think the calebs like you're control-freak control freak. There's no way that I'm taking the chance of these blackouts being caused by her. You know this could be I don't know what's up from down now so I. think that once he sees the footage and sees all these. Killing themselves to get out. He's like I can't take that chance. So it's interest, which really interesting about it is a. he underestimates be at the same time. What's really interesting about like you said like the the human element of that there's something there's something really interesting about him. Thinking that I'm trying to think of the right way to say it that that Caleb is not smart enough to catch onto Nathan's patterns of self-destruction and you know there's the he took a like Nathan could not take the chance of him. Yes, more than likely. He'll have a drink, but you know I have so much literally control. I have to do this now. I don't have time to wait I. think There's something interesting about about what? Exactly you know. Maybe Caleb isn't as intelligent as Nathan but the paranoia is like that. That's something that he's like. I'm paranoid that this person's letting me based on their actions and what they've done this far. If it was a very good fucking, guests like it was a very educated kind of paranoid guests, but he was right. You know just because you're what is what does that saying just because you're just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get. You navigated like that's such an interesting quote to me I've always I've always loved that. I love Nathan Plays Kayla the audio with the video. The picture picture ripping eight I love Abe. Is it strange to have made something that hate you? Oh my God very fucking paternal. Kinda Shit you know very parental type stuff man that set so. I mean you can go into analogy for days about how you know. A lot of people have turned their back on organized religion or a lot of people don't even believe in God like those numbers. Go Up enough as the your happens. People were living in a godless place now mobile. There's an interesting kind of very plain thing for it, but there's so much meat on the bone with that sentence I don't know why the Ramana mail was. Gamma threatens to have like Taiwan land is too high terry amount of started because material in Lancaster was born like the the the mother daughter childbirth and Taiwan's. Laghi killed my wife. Because you fucking you a -able and. Okay I. Don't watch. Talking about no, yeah, there's there's something interesting about that and like. If you've ever had like a conflicted relationship of one of your parents and be like yeah, we don't really You know kind of interesting being like somebody. You're supposed to be so close to, and you're like man. I would know what to say. If I were stuck in a room with you for an hour. You know so interesting. So. Nathan reveals his Hidden Camera. Battery powered of course. And the private conversation between Caleb and EVA showing the Caleb was the real test that cheese in the May, so to speak I. Love is playing and he's I. Turn it off, okay. Turns it off really quick any kind of came in I, get it. You know that would have been a really good plan if it actually had worked in the power goes off and he's like Oh. It must be ten o'clock. Dec- Caitlin Caleb Looks Oh defeated and he's just like Yeah I. Guess we'll have to see like what is like. Yeah. I knew you were watching us. He's like so I did everything last night, and then the power comes back on Nathan's like so. No. No, no, no, not at no, like the whole time. You're fucking sitting in that fucking bubble of gloat and you're like. Oh! Like all the doors were opening up like the irony and use celebrating when it is like your fatal stroke is so fuck you're. A. Love It. Oh, it's so good! Man is fantastic. Here just absolutely fucking stella dirt, like honestly like Don Donald Grayson it and Oscar Isaac. I just just top notching him right afraid. Nathan runs just computer, only and hard AC-, empty rooms and open doors he cold cocks, the fuck out of Caleb and runs downstairs to find Kyoko, and even together I. WanNa know what they're talking about. Fuck Dude I. Just the idea of like is artificial intelligence communicating between. WHAT THE FUCK! What did they go low I go hi! Like. Guys like just a sex drive watch. His searches dislike a is. Are you saying that we double team him? Like what are we? It's yeah, because it's able the one to have to kind of get in there and like initiated the fight going. And what's cool? Who is a? She's not. This is not a terminator. She can't just grab its throat. Crush it. You know it's like she actually is kind of. She's hollow. She's glass like it's kind of like a fragility to it. I think it's interesting because he just crushes one of her arms off the fucking barbell on my God. Getting stabbed those I'll go help before before we get to the stabbing. I don't want to go past the just much time. Alex Collins Ben's on Eva looking at the evolution of the faces on the wall like it. It's like it's like if we look at a photo of a chimp like a monkey like it's just like literally acknowledging your evolution as his sorry such, a mass distracted right. Yeah, there's something I mean. That's like the fucking cover. are of the movies are kind of looking at the mass, and then turning over to other looks so good. That's actually not. That we're going to be putting in the off the potty. Yeah Hell Yeah well, and and it's it's you know like you said it's. It's a her looking at the Oh. Wow, that's my face, but then also being like I've never step foot outside a room and here I am looking at like my ancestry like that's. That's so crazy to think about Of course you know the fight ensues. You know pretty much winding down here. You know Nathan. Get stabbed. He's way to calm about. He's not like you know. Just. What did he say when he's when he's walking away? He's like Oh. Shit. I was crazy like something like that. Yeah, yeah, he's kind of like. Oh, no, no, no, no, like he's like in total. Back and forth here. That's really interesting. Because the Nation Confronts Ava and orders her back to a room, she says if I do, will you ever let me go like deer like nine thousand says obviously, he asked right, but like obviously I like using her. Lie Detector Skills here I like, but I mean like I. Don't think you know if she if even if he was telling the truth like she, she wouldn't go back to a room right? No well. I think that A. You know she knows that there's no way he's going to be like. You know what we'll. We'll let you go. You know if you just come back and bubble. It's no the. That's all bullshit I think that's her being like yeah, this is crap and I know this is crap. by just the way he gets stabbed justice. Oh my God! The knife goes just so looks like it looks like they're cutting. That's I. I would imagine that's how it would be like. The robot is not going to fail like resistance. They're just going to keep pushing Nina yeah exactly I. Mean we're pretty much like the end of this is like anywhere like a few minutes away. We're like four or five minutes away from the ending here. basically I mean. Let's break it down. Eva Goes and. Gets her arm repair guess goes and gets a new arm, and she kind of takes bits and pieces from all the old ones so interesting about that as well as taking bits and pieces from the failures to add up to this monumental success, like actually really liked. Cool nothing like the the something just not on that point gone. We'd never talked about and really basically a modern retelling that Frankenstein Mike Riley. Basically Frankenstein's monster. Frankenstein's wants to skype skills his. in something that was actually really interesting and I remember this from school actually when we did Frankenstein. The original hoddle for Frankenstein was the modern Prometheus which again you know Burma. theus stole five from the Gods to give it to man like the whole, the whole crucial element of Mike, you know how creation can only belong to the gods or go. God an should never be tampered with by man and eventually man's crash and ends up killing itself. I just really don't want to go past the whole franken element of at all. No, absolutely I mean literally making your body from pieces of dead people. You know that so I can't. You can't get any more like on the head and that And Yeah I liked the whole her. She kind of looks almost solemn. She's taking the pieces from them. She's Kinda like fuck. Sorry man smells Vidana right absolutely So you know she kinda build yourself up So great when she actually puts on like the the suit and stuff like she looks like she's about to fucking like president like there's something about that suits its. It's so she looked so interesting with the long hair, and wearing all white and kind of like the redemptive -ness of the white, so absolute you know but she tells Caleb Wade as she gets suited up and and limy, literally suited up, and then she leaves Kalem. She locks him in behind and. Gets on a helicopter and gets the fuck outta there as Caleb panics and tries to release themselves. So what is what are you? Let me ask you this. When he and I'm just kind of like I'm literally just kind of like pushing around the end of this movie like you know it all kind of spiral still like this end points something specific. You want to jump into. We can do it but him. Him, going for the power and putting Nathan's like thing in there and trying to use it, and it just shuts everything down. It's like or is he using his badge in Nathan's computer and it shuts everything down like what happened. I, assume as Nathan's badge right well. Yeah, I mean like wh, what you mean, suddenly everything down like like when he when he goes to the computer, he puts that badge and it just. In everything powers. He's like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because he I think he's kind getting that thing of like. Oh, I can just go in here and hack this computer and possibly get out of here and then once he tries. It actually like shuts everything down Oh yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm assuming. Yeah, right? That's kind of thinking. I was like what exactly I just didn't understand exactly did he use his own card? Instead of Nathan's into shut everything down, or was it Nathan's Card and she preprogramed or no I. Not I'm thinking that she. She tampered with the a like when she has. She's able to the power cuts I. think she's able to do a little bit more than just pal cuts. I think she's kind of like integrated system of the House. Somehow maybe interesting. I can see that Yeah, she fucking Kayla behind and would so crazy and I don't know I again. I might be reading too much into it There's something interesting about the the line that Nathan says earlier and he's a I look back at us as cavemen with tools pounding on whatever then caleb literally has a stool trying to crash the fucking window. Yeah, the door in. But there you know I guess we're premature and we see. Obviously. She somehow convince the helicopter pilot to ever lift and she makes back and I think what's there's something interesting. Where like is this supposed to be like Chicago? where she sat in front of that big reflective like being banned got. Something like that okay but I mean that's pretty much. Ex machi now, but whereabout inaugural. This is. So. First things I will be kind of tease earlier. would she have killed Caleb regardless of who it is I left him behind, or she make that choice based on who he was because remember. She's asking my Are you a good person? And she never actually says like lie or truth. She's just like actually just goes on to the next question, which is an indicator that she thinks he's telling the truth, but is that one hundred percent answer from her. You know what I mean like. Do you think? Think she would have done this man woman, no matter who it was determined I, mean like I'm kind of in the camp of like. She had a single-minded goal throughout this time a and achieve that goal I. Don't think that she you know whether whether it. Be Kayla with her. Be someone else you know, and if the if that person did ANSA Yes, I'm a good person and like she she. She assessed that they were a good person. I don't think that she would I think she would take someone else with her like when she escaped. You know I I hold how to lie that she is one hundred percent determined to escape out of here by herself. the entire film like I, don't I don't say I didn't see anyone else walking out with like and like by I think that is because she seems so cold and cool calm and collected at the end that she's just like she. Literally Caleb is crying out for his life as she gets into the elevator electrical upstairs and she doesn't even look like she doesn't look at back at him for like remorse or anything like that. She's not even like you know like like. Maybe there's like one shot. Over under airing if she's looking at the door like that was behind, or he's looking at the elevator door closing like you know, it's in the same direction just like. I. ICON. I can't really tell but like again. I I don't think she makes a conscious decision at the start of the movie when she also, but when she asks him, you'll good person and like his answers and stuff like that I don't really know. Your, ending actually like the way that you put, it actually sounds a lot better like the way that you put. It makes it like makes it seem like that. She is coming up with a whole kind of situation. Where man like this guy's this guy's like Nathan? I gotTA leave him here. He's like Nathan. I all right with me. You know like. I don't know like I really liked the way that you assess as I didn't really. I didn't really consider it that way. Well. I think that I. I think that regardless I'm trying to think of the right way to say there's a couple of different ways at this can go i. think that. I'm kind of just kind of getting getting to the end here of what I think of this any I don't like the fact that she leaves Kayla behind. It's not because it's a downer. It's just A. Dust Caleb. Deserve that now I know it. All right that's what's fucked up. Is this like the person we've been champion? Is Our hero the whole time like she? We've been champion for her. Just as much as we have been for for Caleb and then he does the right thing, even though he might just be the psych self centered almost kind of like I've got to go in there and save the Princess and fall in love, and it's like well. That's really like boring shit. You know it's very. Cliche. And I think that's what's interesting is the whole time he thinks he's he saving her and she's GonNa. Be So bubble. No, she will literally leave you to die I. Don't like the fact that he gets left behind because I think it Kinda ended on a downer. That just wasn't really necessary. I think if she I think she had locked it and been and been like you're smart. You'll be able. Able to figure a way out, and like that would be like at least some kind of hope of like. Yes, there is some way out of here, but here's here's why I asked if she locked a computer up if she did that intentionally, that is an indicator of like actively trying to kill somebody I. WanNa. Make sure you don't leave here versus if it's just an accident, it's just an accident. He fucked up the computer. Somehow rubble blah. That's why I wasn't sure. If Eva had premeditated that, and that's what I was like. That's what's interesting to me because if she's premeditated that that is a clear indicator of like. Malice you know I think that's that's very you. Start getting into like premeditation evil shit like. Did you want this person to leave or I? Don't know that's kind of what I took away from it, but I just think it kind of lead on Downer of no hope for a guy who yell didn't really deserve any of that, but it hits a point to. To where you're like, but for her. This is the only person that can ever blow her cover of being an AI, and it's like. Would you leave that up to chance? Would you leave it up to chance that there's some guy who's like in love with you and obsessed out? There knows what you really are like. Would you leave that up to chance? Chance though and it's like, but you could become anybody you could go and put a whole different skin on and become a different person you know since I don't know I'm kind of like at a toss up about it. I, see I see the points, but I also think that, and this is my last light tired I also think that she is young. Young and she is new, and she is self aware she's not self conscious of other people, but I smell as well as bad as I always about okay, she's about four. She's in the midst of discovering humanity. Right like she is in the midst of like the only person that she knows before Caleb is her father, who essentially to her as God Rod. So when Kayla comes in answering all these questions, she like she's assessing this, not only as answers for Caleb, but also answers of those like of humans in when she gets out there, too that crosswalk and she starts paper watching she's she's getting more even more information about humans dirt. If you're found out about humans like from like zero, like as a I guess, a however, cheers from zero to one hundred. Wouldn't you want to fuck it? Kill you. What's like? It's like Li Lou from Fifth Element. You know when she starts studying about all human history. She's not what I think right what I would really love to see. Is Eva in five years eventually? Being like that was real I, have regret now like I should not have done that like and I think there is so much room for like an x mocking to and I. Me Dude I'm never like Oh. Let's do a sequel like I'm not really like upgrade is like no, the stories done, but with with X. Mocking the story is just beginning. That is literally the origin story of some bad ass, like of a bad ass franchise, and that's what I think so cool and I want to see video games, t shirts and share you. You know I would love to see a TV show where they go about like what is her life now? Being a normal person in what are the things that you know? Did somebody eventually realized that he made in AI? There isn't a out there somewhere in. Someone's looking for her. Like do people catch on to her? I think that's interesting, because either glad. Does she kind of like realized that she is a herself or has? She forgotten that part of it like she. She's human. Ride right right, do you? Do you have intially is the easiest way this is. Westwood fully truly explaining the plot of. This is one hundred percents as in one a westworld by the way I. Just you know what happens when a big breeze comes through and blows her fucking hair off her head. There's this metallic woman you know, and the what happens if she gets hit by fucking lightning mates on that wants to have sex with the and like you know they get a little rough like right. He starts digging into a and like some of the skin volt often, and it's just like what the. Charm just turned into like T-. Three arm and she melts him like check terminator from three. Now. I think there's a lot of like it's awesome. She got out, but you almost need I'm not saying it has to. You need a guy to protect you mirror, you know you need a human who knows your story and can kind of cover for you like how vampires familiar? It's like you need someone who can kind of cover for you in this I'm not saying you got fucking mirror caliber, love him or whatever, but like you know it kind of makes me actually think of let me in or let the right one end you know, here's this detached female character who is detached for like certain reasons, obviously about Human Lallera. Right exactly and we'll make exceptions to. Keep that going you know make exceptions with very specific humans to keep that lifestyle going that's all I'm saying is like it would be cool to see. Some kind of continuation or like, if I can ask if I can ask Alex Harlan. Anything I'd be like would does able regret what she did like is it? Does that something? Where is she? You know she so young that she doesn't. Have you know. Hindsight is twenty twenty two. She not realize how this will make her feel. All this is so new. Felt you know like this before? It's like hundred. There's so many questions with it. The best a hundred Salvini guy like I just thought of another thing where it's like you know because she communicate with darker and Kyoko is probably much older than he has so much more interaction with with with fucking Nathan. Who is earn less violent to him? Who to her like who is only aggressive with her like circa early knows the aggression humanity, and if she communicates to Eva, Eva is going to take that on board and be like well. Talking done with days to like fucking humanity altogether I just WanNa get out of captivity. Right one hundred. Also. She's looking at Caleb going. You know you're here to test me and if I don't pass your test, I'm dead. You know and like I. I don't know. I think Sh- innocent. She's kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You know and a lot of people do that when they're younger. They're like bucket. Just fuck it. Fuck I. DON'T CARE FUCK everybody. You know kind of thing versus when you get older and you're a little bit like man. I was really harsh on that person or I should not a push that person away, and I was young, and this was stupid and. And Blah Blah. That's what I think is kind of interesting about it is. There's so many different ways Itihi will. She feel bad about this later on, or was she like I had to make a choice, and that choice involve me. Either I was gonna live, or I was going to die, and the thing. Is it just it doesn't come down to you know it's not an absolute certainty that Kaleb is going to go and spill the beans. You know it's probably going to happen. You know because they're going to be asking realty walk because they're going to be like who the fuck murder Nathan. You're the only human. They're like, but the crazy part. That I got Dan, but we have to stop. So here's. You know it's. It's almost like terminator where it's like Dude. They're gonNA. Show up, and they're gonNA. Find Nathan's body six months decomposed, and here's a chick with a glass JAL missing like what the fuck is that and boom the world has now has ai. But they're going to go in, and they're gonNA. Find all these AI brains, and all these shell bodies and be like dude. Something is missing here like there's an age. Somebody will eventually put the pieces together and be like an AI has escaped like there's no other way about it like there there has to be. You'll go in and find his files in. You'll find calebs body there and be like dude. Something is going on, so I think that if it doesn't really cover her tracks, you know it's not like she blew. Blew up the compound when she left. You know that'd be different story, but somebody will eventually come looking for one of the most richest and powerful and smartest men in the world. Somebody will eventually show up there and get in so I. Don't know I think it's interesting. I think it's a very juvenile mind being like outage, leave this person behind and fuck everything else, but in five or six years on some right, yeah, and five or six years. She's going to see her face on a wanted poster. Be Like Oh! I think that I. I think there's just so much room for this thing to go, but that's Kinda. My final thoughts I. I love this movie I. Love The ending. You know it's it's I got a love hate relationship with the end, but. You know it is what it is for. Alex Garland first movie. What a fucking amazing good Yeah I'm so glad we did this. Though because it's like it's like you know you, WanNa do bladerunner, but not do later yet. It's I. Guess Okay, cool. Let's do played her. final. Elements of this that has much better than bladerunner I'm like I I I I think blade runner is amazing I think it's a masterpiece i. just I I think that has been way of discovered so much more about artificial intelligence and technology in in the like since nineteen eighty two that we are able to have a a much more daybreak data and intricate discussion about artificial intelligence. Sir I, mean like saying movies like her. Seeing movies like X. Mocking Uh that. That come out. Bladerunner twenty-nine even gets into some hefty teams that played one of the first one doesn't rights are yeah like I think there are elements of this movie that really poss-, blind for May and man. I I struggle to find a flaw in this movie. Man Like I think this might be in my top twenty top twenty five films of all time. I think this is a movie that should be shown like we watch Veyron the first one. Finger back in back in school. For English literature, what? They told us like I mean like they teach you about visual, the visual meteorites that telling you. Like, they're teaching you about how really Scott uses lighting an like an old stuff and and dialogue to push his his thoughts on artificial intelligence and what have you and I think this movie should be used similarly. Curriculum for tation curriculum. You know if it wasn't A. It wasn't a movie that was full of like nudity and she like you know but whatever? Right, yeah I, I think I. Think this is a movie for for the honestly and like this is being really one of those movies that we have struggled to. Select for our feature presentation because we whether we did a justice. We hope that we just as I feel I'm walking away from this conversation. Being like I feel like we did a justice I, I'm leaving nothing in the tank like I think we had a great conversation around there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely man You want to jump to some listener comments. Oh, by the way this has two percent higher, then blade runner. In neck do they're like so close? I tell you what do you want to take instagram? I'll take facebook Yeah, so okay cool here. I'll go ahead and I'll jump on facebook really quick, and by the way guys always you can leave your comments on our main page. Admit double feature, or and the after party the group that's connected to it. Everybody's invited. Please come join. We'd love to have you guys could. You can leave amazing comments like this from Rick? Jin Tusa. Rick starts off. Saying X.. Mocking was amazing. Here is script that is finely crafted like a HSP. What isn't HSA May? It's. It's I know if it's. But it's it's central hall snack pack, which is kind of like won't sell it like Kebob stores and stuff. It's basically. It's hot. Chips like undock. Kebab mates are chicken and basic above May and then like mixed with Mike Golic source and barbecue sauce, and it's his authored I actually had one last night, because yes, it was my Jay. Day and it is, it is incredible man I'm sure we have some kind of American equivalent but I was like HSP as A. Horny horny steps! Rick that was. So glad thank you for putting that into comment. Eurostar ex Mike and it was amazing. Here's a script that is finally crafted like H. HSP a puzzle box with hidden meanings in the names, the our work on the walls, and even the labels on the various liquor bottles scattered throughout. It's a bit of a slow burner, but overall I loved it Oscar Isaac Killed The shit out of this role, and isn't me or does he look like drake from hotline bullying? Good comment rank I appreciate. Instagram we got one from M. Eighty six one of my. That's my dude. Shut quick. That is that's what am I one of my best friends of Matt Prater. This is one of his favorite movies and I know I would be remiss if I did not shout him out, so thank you, Matt. Sorry, you can thank you well i. mean like you basically read out come out because he said what am I. Deadly shooting in this one. Nine and fresh cookies. One of the best movies ever made I honestly. I agree with that assessment Elliott Dude well, I mean I think that pretty much wraps up. Do you get anything else you WANNA say before we get. I'm fucking tapped man. I am look. I know what we're covering next feature presentation and it is, it is not as lofty like it is not a science fiction flake but it is, it is one that will require a lot of conversations, so I need a good to a break. We'll see what people will start noticing when we do fast and they're furious I course correct with like xbox. See your fast and furious and raise you two thousand one a space odyssey. Raise you something iconic. That is yeah. Okay cool. Guys it's been a blast. I really appreciate and I know. How does as well all you guys staying in listening? I know we always love to La Wrong love wrong. We always love to run along episode. To run, but. lon-wrong We love to run long on these episodes and We always have west doing it. Again. You know where to find us on her socials. Stop by reviews. The biggest thing that can help and it's you know. We've had a great turnout with our socials. Whether downloads and stuff, and it would just be if every person listening to this right now wrote one review. Don't even have to write a hit. The five star submitted be fucking done with it. It would help out so so so much in the long run so I would consider a personal favor of anybody. Listening to this went, and did that I would greatly appreciate it, but hey, it's a free world. Do whatever you want. Don't listen to me. I'm not your AI overlord. Guys. It's really been a blast at a lot of talking about this and we will catch you guys next time. See you later. report. Flu!

Caleb Smith Eva Eva Google Alex Garland Oscar Isaac Don Yeah Academy Awards Dick Saifi Wade Ali Kayla Drastic Park Nathan Hoyts bladerunner David Oscar Laura Yukon
The Invisible Man (Featuring Robert Yaniz Jr.)

Piecing It Together Podcast

47:46 min | 8 months ago

The Invisible Man (Featuring Robert Yaniz Jr.)

"All right welcome to another episode of piecing it together the podcast where we take a look at a new movie and try to figure out what movies inspired it and today on the show it is the beginning of year three of piecing it together heard the new theme right there. There's artwork there's all kinds of new stuff coming your way Those are the first two big changes But today we're GONNA be talking about the invisible man with a new guest co host Robert Yannis junior from the crooked table. Podcast WE HAVE A great conversation. Coming up for you guys The invisible man kind of I wouldn't say came out of no areas. I think a lot of people are really excited about it. And of course. There's a huge tradition with these universal monster movie characters but not so successful recently but this one is really blowing up at the box office critics everything people are just really loving it and so it's it's great to see them doing it right this time out. Not that the mummy was really all that bad. But that's another conversation for another time. Today the conversation is about the invisible man and year three piecing it together so like I said we got a lot of new things in store for you guys with his New Year of the show. Where planning all kinds of special episodes and special new features and all kinds of cool stuff but you should be subscribed to the show if you WANNA make sure. You're always catching all that new stuff. So subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Of course on apple podcasts. Spotify stitcher tune in all those APPs. Podcast where I listen to podcasts. And of course follow us on social media at Piecing Pied and join our facebook crew popcorn and puzzle pieces where we talk about all these movies and continue the conversation from here on the episode. So I think it's time to kick off this episode. So let's get into the invisible man all right so today on the show we've got a new CO host with us. We've got Robert Yannis Junior Robert. How's it going man? Good David thanks for having me on the show. Yeah I. I've been looking forward to avenue on ever since I was in your show while back But I'm glad to have you. What do you tell people since? It's your first time a little bit about you and your podcast okay. So I'm a freelance writer. Film critic and I have the crooked table podcast where every week we look at the world of film from a fresh angle. So that means it's always me and different co host so for example. David was on an episode talking about wet hot American summer. Which people should definitely check out really fun movie that I had actually hadn't seen before? And that's one of the best things for me about having a show where it's revolving co hosts and not really a set like a limitation on the kinds of films that we get to talk about that. We're talking about parasite and the next week. We'RE TALKING ABOU LA LA land the next done episodes on the Christmas in Connecticut and psycho and like all kinds of like random. All different genres all different. You know because the people that come on the show usually as was the case with David. Guetta they pick those movies that we talk about. So it's something that's usually connects to them personally and I feel like I have a theory that it's you really get to know somebody by knowing the kind of art they're into the kind of music they listen to kind of films that they connect with because there's something fundamental about that That work of art in this case cinema that I think speaks to someone on a on a very personal level whether it's a marvel movie or whatever like there's something you know. There's there's the connective tissue there that I think people People either click with are they. Don't totally yeah. I totally agree mean. That's one of the things I love about doing this show. Is You know just having different people. On all the time you know it brings Different you know fresh perspectives and you know just something that wouldn't be if it was just me and the same coast every week exactly and everybody. I think you sacrifice a little bit of predictability with that because obviously different co hosts so sometimes the tones of the episodes are a little different just based on the energy will between you and Co host. But I I you know I think that's in a way. What makes it fun as a host and hopefully as a listener? Never know exactly what you're going to get or the kind of person you're gonNA hear from exactly so today we're talking about the invisible man Which is of course. The probably thousandth time. This story has been told Over the history of cinema since the the Old Classic. Universal Monster Movie Days To all kinds of remakes and re imaginings and to this weekend's is just came out and it's it's getting great reviews. It's doing well with audiences and I was. I was pretty excited for it. When I put out a call for for Co host for upcoming episodes you jumped on this one. Are you a fan of of the the kind of history of this character? I I'm a casual fan of the invisible man. I saw the last well. We might talk about it later. So I won't mention the last like big modernization of the invisible man story but I was most curious because of the filmmaker involved we went out who created. Who's the writer of the first three saws and decrease the insidious franchise and his last movie upgrade before? This was really was a really find sort of like eighty style scifi horror kind of in a way he's described as kind of his Frankenstein actually show. I was curious to see what they were going to do with this property. Especially after the struggle that that universals had trying to get these these characters off the ground once again. Oh yeah the dark universe. I'm sure we'll bring it up a couple of times throughout this conversation. Yeah No I. I agree that that's part of what really piqued my interest as well as to see got after after crashing and burning how are they are they gonNA move forward with trying to get back into the business of monster movies and Leeann Elza interesting filmmaker and it definitely took a very unique and different and very Current you know direction for For for taking on this character and it's I think it really paid off. But we'll get into a lot of that as we're going through conversation. Why don't we jump into your first puzzle piece? Well WE A. This is actually the perfect segue because we kind of alluded to it already. I actually for my first puzzle piece. I had the mummy from two thousand seventeen and I know a lot of times. You know we're supposed to come up with puzzle pieces that inspired the movie and a Lotta Times. That's films that have similar themes but this thing is a more practical way that inspired this because the mummy cost about one hundred and fifty million or something crazy like that one of the biggest stars in the world everybody hated it like the dark universe after that one. Promo photo crumbled name now on film twitter. And we're like hey dirk univer coming soon question so the fact that they went completely in the other direction and they got they got to make this movie for seven million dollars like super bare bones to the to the point that it's quadrupled its budget already just in the. Us In its first weekend is insane to me. And I think it's very I think it's a testament to this is not new information but to the fact that horror really isn't contingent on giant budget. And I think short this movie also used closer to the horror roots of these characters as opposed to trying to make it a marvel style action adventure with like a grey like even an organization that I can't remember the name of in the mummy that was like the shield that was led by Dr. Jekyll and I was. It was such a like ham fisted approach to. You're going to watch this. And you're gonNA like it with that property and to see them completely flipping on it's head here. I think it was really satisfying and legitimately terrifying as I'm sure we'll we'll talk about. Oh totally yeah and yeah. You're so right I mean I. It was GONNA be on my list as well. The mummy Redo you know launching of the dark universe it. It's definitely an attempt to course correct and it'll be interesting to see what the success of this if you know. Sometimes Hollywood doesn't learn the right lessons from successes and it'll be interesting. They say okay. Well we got it now. Let's start that whole thing back up or if they maybe just green light a string of interesting but doesn't have to be connected takes on some of these characters. Which is you know pretty clearly the direction that they should be taking with all this. Yeah and if they keep it with Blunt House I think the most expensive movie was glass. Which was like twenty million? So they'll they can keep that rain down a little bit and worry about connecting later. If they decide to do that on the line absolutely yet I think before jumping in my my first piece we should mention that you know the Blunt House connection. I mean they really are I mean it's crazy. Their track record. They're all over the place really. I mean some of their things. Just you know kind of don't do anything but then some of them. Just make a shitload of money off very very little and I. It's it's an interesting approach. It's kind of just try everything as long as the budgets. Don't go too big And I I mean so far. They're really making a name for themselves when it comes to these kinds of movies and I'm curious to see where it continues. I'm you know I. I joke around that I I always say I'm not the biggest horror fan in the world. But it's like. I definitely appreciate the approach that they're taking when it comes to these things not going and blowing things out of proportion trying to not trying to make these big giant epic versions of horror movies. Are there just really making Stories that you know at least on paper you know time after time. We're going to be Interesting stories and then you know whether or not they they succeed. That's you know always up to the opening weekend and seeing what actually happens but they are very interesting studio. Yeah for sure what about you? What's your first piece so I will go with the first thing that I thought of which was Terminator Terminator Two. Just the Terminator series. In general I you know Linda. Hamilton's Sarah. Connor is so sure of of what she has. Seen this thing that everybody thinks she's so crazy and you know it's really a you know. We never really thought of it. I don't think at least I didn't as a gas lighting kind of story but I mean basically everybody is convinced and trying to make sure. She thinks she's crazy as well. we also of course in. Terminator to get the whole You Know Mental Institution escape scene. Which is you know huge action packed and violent which that's where we get our biggest action sequence in this movie but Elizabeth Moss does a great job of kicking some ass and continuing that that You know that that Tradition of of the Bash Chick who? She knows. She's not crazy and she's GonNa do whatever the hell is that she has to do to to prove it and she She's you know she's awesome as she always in this. But I it's it's definitely a theme that I think is explored in both of these series. Yeah and I think to you look at the first few terminators along with this movie and another one of my puzzle pieces that I'll mention on a little bit. I think you do see a sort of evolution of that character into being very submissive very kind of music and then sort of unempowered over the course of the story where they they really kind of takeover takeover the narrative in a powerful way would which you wouldn't expect automatically from the way that the stories start. I guess sure. Yeah absolutely it's I. I'm really glad that he took this direction. You know of of telling the story from you. Know from the the the survivors point of view And and not being just all about the monster the whole time it definitely opens it up to a much more interesting story Than just being about the monster the whole time right and the way that the movie opens up to that situation where she's running away and you don't know exactly the details of it but you're in it from the very beginning. I think that's a testament to the strength of the performances and the film making and that also leads directly into my second piece. Actually Eurotunnel. Let's go the beginning of this movie. She's in a abusive relationship. She's looking for a way out. She's trying to escape. And in the first thing that I that popped into my head and this is I guess because my mom actually really liked this movie when I was a kid so it was on a lot is nine hundred ninety one sleeping with the enemy. Which was star Julia Roberts? And she's basically as a young woman dropped in a an abusive controlling relationship marriage actually and she fakes her own death and moves to another town to try and start a new life and spoilers. Her husband her husband reappears and leads to a big showdown. This sleeping with the enemy felt very similar. Miserable man minus the invisible stuff so obviously they diverge a lot but the general premise of that dynamic. That kind of relationship. I mean now. The invisible man has the benefit you can call it. That in air quotes benefit being super timely to the metoo movement and everything going on sure and gas lighting and everything. That's been in the news much last few years but sleeping with the enemy like tapped into sort of like what you were saying that victims perspective of trying to get away from this controlling significant other Who HAPPENED TO BE MARRIED? But that's what really from the very first sequence where she's running out of the House and trying to get a get a ride and get out of there and in the invisible man. It's flip that he fakes his death. But again it's very similar elements just kind of remixed with the Scifi Horror Sheen on top. I like that. Yeah I hadn't thought of that movie and forever but but that was one of those like TBS TNT movies back in the nineties. It was constantly on television. Yeah yes absolutely. That's just one of those movies that you just. You know you could kind of picture the art work you know and it's like it's just it's just something that you've seen million times over the years but maybe even actually like thought about it or watched it right. Well I'M GONNA go for my next piece with kind of another angle that I looked like also at the opening with and that is actually X. Machen a- The Alex Garland film which I kind of looked at that whole opening like this. This crazy tech genius billionaire house you know and just filled with like so much technology and the person who lives there is just you know. There's just not something right with them. You don't know quite what exactly and his control over any in any anything anyone. Who's in that house? Is You not healthy? Let's put it that right. And so yeah. I just thought of X. MAC and the The Oscar Isaac character is being a little bit of a parallel to to what's going on there. We dive too deep into the tech elements. Just you know we get some glimpses of how the suit is made and stuff like that but It's all there though you use. You can tell that the house is just so you know so souped up high tech crazy futuristic and it's also very secluded and away from the rest of the world by very much by design not just rich Guy House but also because he's sick. Fuck so yeah yeah I I caught on with a little when I was watching it. Actually I think Mike and even entered my mind a couple of times because it's centered on this. Yeah this house very a lot. Lots of natural light all the glass and the secret project kind of happening and like back room sort of deal. Yeah it was a lot of that kind of That kind of vibe for sure. So what do you got for your next piece all right so I don't know how this happened. Have another one thousand. Nine hundred one thriller The silence of the lambs. I noticed in this movie particularly. She's very dominated by a man even when she moves in with her sister's friend. All this hodge. Hodges I think this gentleman's last name the one from Straight OUTTA COMPTON. She constant male presence and she doesn't really get full power until the end and I found a lot of similarities between that story. And that of cleary starling in that in that film clearly being kind of a woman in a man's world that was the whole idea there. There's even the sequence towards the end of signs land where Buffalo Bill has the night vision goggles on and it sort of sneaking up on our invisible man style. She can't see anything around her so there was a lot of. I think no I don't I wouldn't say that the movie necessarily modules it but I definitely think you can see the inspiration of of that movie in Llanell's work here a little bit. Get totally picture that Just on a you know just literal sense of inspiration. I'm surely when just so inspired by silence of the lambs and you know I mean that kind of and you know even to you know. I know that it's his film. But blame house in general. Just the idea of horror films as something that can Transcends you know and become something. That's so culturally important Yeah absolutely So I will go with another piece so this one. I could have just tied to that last piece the X. Mac in a piece that I figured I'd just bring it up separately and this one is really just something about the score you know. I'm a musician so I love music and films and a lot of the music. Is You know just straight up or Castro does beautiful stuff but then when when she gets you know gets weird dark it gets really strange sound. Designee reminded me a little bit of the score from Alex. Garland's relation From the the whole last thirty minutes of that where the score just goes bonkers and yeah and I. I loved a lot of what they were doing that. I I love especially the juxtaposition between that beautiful more traditional score versus that kind of stuff that just really throws you on edge and I. It's it's again more so just the score. Not so much anything with the film. Although you know there's definitely a feminist tangled annihilation so you can draw some kind of comparison there but but yeah so my next piece. I need to go back and listen to the annihilation score because I do remember seeing that film and enjoying it quite a bit. But I haven't really gotten a chance to go back and listen to that I do want to point out. The score from visible man was outstanding. Like I've been listening to it the last couple of days on spotify while I'm writing articles and things like that. Nice it's Benjamin wasps who did the scores for it and chapter two blade runner two thousand forty nine like he's been killing it the last few years so people that are into film scores should go and check that one out. Because it's it's really into the day new MA track in particular which I noticed during the movie like as well as the data Ma is happening. Kind of leading into the credits. And we know we're not going to get into the ending per se right now but just really powerful combination of visuals and music. Beautifully done totally. So what do you got next all right so the this didn't really pop into my head until late in the movie. She is been framed for for all these crimes. She's locked up. She's giving a sort of last dish ditch effort to free herself to get her life back and then she momentarily dropped in this toxic relationship and I read interviews with that. He even thought of. This film was inspired by. I'm talking about twenty four teens. Gone Girl Big Big in this movie. Big Toxic you know and I think that would still interesting about this film that as opposed to gone girl it's kind of like the gender roles are flipped like in that amy is the one holding all the power and nick is just kind of stuck with limited options. Although I think the difference there being in gone girl you're not like next kind of kind of a Dick also so you're not really on his side as much. You know what I mean. Like more than amy but in this movie this whole point is the to put one hundred percent in the shoes of Cecilia. And I think I think that's where they diverge but there's definitely a lot of similarities as opposed as compared to that feature film. Yeah absolutely that. That's a great one. I hadn't thought of that. That's interesting that That l had specifically cited that as well because that definitely makes sense now that I hear it allowed and think of it right yeah. It's you know I love it so I'm going to go with another one. That kind of ties back to the score a little bit and it's it's it's really. It's the lack of score. It's the really quiet parts of the film and I thought of as a combination of both a quiet place which we got the sequel coming out in a couple of weeks here and don't breathe Both movies that really are very very deliberate in their use of of keeping things. Quiet to where you could just hear the pin drop and to where it really amps up the tension of like you know you know that something bad is either going to happen or is already happening and you just maybe don't even notice it yet and And it's got you just kind of. It really puts your your senses kind of on alert as you're watching the film at lots of lots of shots of justice the room and you don't even know like ooh something happening in this room right now. Why am I watching this early? I noticed that too and the cinematography in in the visible man like you're a lot of times down a hallway. Kinda creepy feel very voyeuristic in the way that the movement is entered too. I thought was great. Absolutely yeah and so it like a really just helps to put you on edge the whole time and I think that's one of the things that makes the movie you know work so well is just that that. It's that combination of cinematography. There's probably some lake invisible production design in there that you just not even really realizing it but it's just the room is probably laid out in such a way that like it's just your eyes don't know where to go exactly and then since the sound isn't giving you any clues music isn't giving you any clue is it really just helps her lose you in there you know. Yeah for sure for sure I did. I did take notice that a lot. Yeah and I do like I do. Love don't breathe by the way for people who haven't seen that movie which I mean it was a decent size hit. And we've heard rumors of a sequel or supposed to move forward but Definitely I feel like it was Vera Bass Leandra radio when that came out because it also has very meticulous as you were kind of alluding sound design and great performance by Jane Levy so and a great dog just like Zeus. In this one. Funny thing I was leaving the house the other night to go see the invisible visible man and my daughter's like you're going to see a movie I'm like for you. She's like is there a dog in it and I'm like I will let you know I mean and then opening scenes showed up was she was right. There was a dog in it genius. All right what do you got for your next piece. Well throughout the movie you know we're really kind of wondering is. Cecelia I mean you know. It's called invisible man and we assume that there's going to be an invisible man at some point but for the first half. It's very much like. Is she going crazy as she imagining things? This kind of unreliable narrator vibe and I was getting big Black Swan vibes just with the level of performance with sort of the people around us. You're not not sure what to believe. And then you kind of Find Yourself. Put in these. I think it would really clicked for me when spoilers obviously the scene in the restaurant with her sister when they you know the knife just comes across and then back into her hand and obviously we saw it float. But she doesn't so it's sort of like doubting your own sanity like is is Adrian dead. Is he the monster? Am I like that whole sort of psychological breakdown that you witness in in Black Swan? I think really came through here plus in that movie. It's heavily implied that she's in abusive relationship with her mother. So and I think there's another angle in which these two movies have that kind of coming around. Yeah I think that that's agree connection there and just to the point. I Love I saw Leonelli said something about you. Know How is important not to to show you? You know exactly what happened so that you just kind have to believe her. And I think that's such a smart way to approach. Especially you know to tie into the whole timeline. Me Too and everything like that and you know just you know you gotta you gotTa believe her that this is happening and then you know sure enough it is. I mean visible man in the movie but he is insane but yeah. I love that scene though that scene in the restaurant with the sister I mean I was just fantastic. Yeah yeah absolutely. I want to also grow fast before we get to your next piece. I want to circle back around to what we were saying about believing. Cecilia that in the end of the movie. I feel like the film does try and kind of bring that back around. Where when she when she kills Adrian the that you don't like I really respect one offer doing this. I think that one hundred percent. We're supposed to believe that you know that Adrian was behind this that it was all gas lighting and it's all a big bruise that he put together from the beginning. But the movie never confirms it for you and I'd ride. I love that about it. Like there's there's always that little tiny like five percent seed of doubt but did he like what's that like. I don't think I think it's the movie is on Cecilia Side. But back that it doesn't clarify it there and doesn't have him say say something menacing as he's like gurgling his last breath. I really love that about it and I feel like if they do make a sequel to this. I feel like God has a thread that they pick up on that. Cecilia can kind of be haunting her. That she never one hundred percent God that closure if they wanted to go that route. I don't know if that would If at all tarnish the impact of this ending or would just be an extension of it. But that's just something I wanted to make sure I mention because I really thought that was a lovely touch absolutely. I completely agree with that So I will go with my next piece and I've only got two more at this point but my next one though so this first of all speak at ending you get that. That close in shot on Celia staring out at the camera immediately it was like. Oh my God. They're ending it exactly like every episode the handmaid's tale of course has Elizabeth Moss stuck in this this awful society where where she's getting treated just as absolutely horribly as could possibly be and then at the end of every episode she is possibly getting out of the situation and staring at the camera intently just really intense and And and that's every episode and so I totally. It's not like they're gonna end it just like that so there. She's an expert about at this point. Yeah that's her thing. I feel like I feel like we need. We need to end every Elizabeth Moss movie. That way you know it's it's just so what do you got next so I think just in the way they approached this character and the way. The film is technically a remake reboot. Whatever you WANNA call it of the nineteen thirty three but it's also kind of not at all. I really thought of and this is super recent foam but I really thought of joker and the fact that joker is a movie about the Joker. But if you change a few details it's not really about the joker at all and I feel like this is another example of FM that lower budgeted. That's more character focused. That you know is trying to say something about society about relationships about whatever you know. Mental Health in in both films actually ended up And sort of borrows a an established in order to get people to go to the theater to get that out there and I think it's touching back to what I said before about the movie ends. It is sort of open to interpretation like you know whereas where does she go from here? Where does Arthur go at? The end of joker are both of those are probably GonNa get sequels but we have no idea what they're going to look like so I think just the way that they they take this this ongoing property and reinvent it contextualize it and British prepackaged in such a completely different way just felt to me like we're I mean and obviously the the invisible man was in production before joker but like I wonder how many more now with these two movies. How many more projects we're going to see like that where it's you know it's a character or a brand that we know but not really recognisable in short any way shape or form. I love that. That's a really great piece. I think that's a great great comparison and I also think they were ever going to try to make a female joker movie Elizabeth. Moss would be a great candidate for that she would actually flash point. I think in the comics. I think that Martha Wayne becomes the joker and almost waiting. Yeah I seen the animated film and I think I read it eventually but yeah so in that Thomas Wayne is Batman because Bruce gets killed and then Martha Wayne becomes the joker. So there you go. Wbz If you decide to do that you who to call Moss. Yeah just just looking at the camera at the end and we're that's exactly how it has to every time and we we don't know if she's crazy or not so for my last piece. I am going to go with now. This is a little bit silly. But you know we. We've taught about how there's the the original original invisible man and then the so many things that have come since it that are that. Are you know just inspired by it or remakes of it or loose remakes of it and I just wanted to mention hollow man because I was hoping somebody would. It was going to me. I okay I understand this movie. It's a really bad rep but I was. I don't know I want to see fifteen when it came out maybe and I thought freaking ruled time. I don't know I haven't seen it since I was a teenager. But I have very fond memories of that movie and I think you know even though this. This movie definitely wasn't going all in on the action. There's some there's some action sequences and whatnot. That are done really well. I mean Leonelli especially upgrade. I loved upgraded. Yeah to it he. He really can stay some really cool action sequences and he doesn't here too. But you know how a man really took that concept of this invisible manages really made it a really fun action film out of it and so I definitely think that there is a little bit of a nod to that as well. Yeah absolutely I mean and that was also a kinda blatant example of how can we do the invisible man in two thousand but like in a modern context not a period piece or anything exactly? Yeah let's let's let's do it and update it and see how it would work now right now. All right we got any other pieces. I did think of briefly. I did think of evil dead two just because those scenes when she's by herself and she thinks she might be hallucinating or any things like that. I noticed that an evil the two. That's kind of a running thing for throughout the evil dead trilogy. That Ashley the crazy stuff happened with. No one's around and obviously in this by design just that kind of stylistic choice you made me think of evil dead and then also we have a sort of attack billionaire or a millionaire whatever. He has in a really cool house on a hill with lots of glass near. I think it's even near water in this movie. Who's building these suits? So I thought of iron man three just because he's got the state of the art suits and all that and and his kind of need for it to survive. I guess and in both cases as well I just have to thank you for being the one to bring up the evil dead because everybody else when I bring up evil dead way too much on this show but I actually had thought of that in the theater and forgot to write it down because especially when she's breaking the pots on him and you know it's like ash breaking all the glasses on himself during the scene with the hand love it. That's obviously here. It's not for comedic effect but there's still very similar similar style and I think it into the whole unreliable narrator part of this is like well. We only see what she thinks is happening. Possibly and I think yeah. Yeah yeah good call. I'm glad we were on the same page with that. I love it. Ra Cool. I'm going to do the finished puzzle and then we will get into any closing thoughts we had on the visible man so we have guy the mummy. That's of course. The the recent remake with the dark universe The Terminator Series Sleeping with the enemy X. Mocking The silence of the lambs annihilation gone girl. A quiet place. Don't breathe Black Swan the handmaid's Tale Joker Holloman evil dead to an iron man three movies too. Yeah I assure is a lot of really good stuff. It seems to be like a lot of what a high tech techy stuff in there. Yeah I think so but but no definitely a great list of Movies do you have any other thoughts that you wanted to mention about this one. I think this I actually was looking forward to this movie and I was hoping it would be good but I think it was actually better than I thought it would be like. It exceeded my expectations. And I think as we're going to do these classic monster movies in a modern context. I think this is probably as good of an invisible man movie as you're going to get without falling falling into the same trap of being really hokey or or feeling very dated or things like that and give it a find a social context for it underneath all of these characters. There's something very sort of primal about them that I think makes them terrifying and makes the has helped them endure. And I think you know dealing with fighting unseen force and well what is how is that relevant today having it be sort of a commentary on you know dealing with trauma dealing with abuse and dealing with the aftermath of that literally fighting an unseen demon. Either that was a really smart way to to bring this this brand back and as much as I love this as a self contained story I kind of do want to see what legal does with a sequel. Or you know maybe have this same team not in not necessarily the stars but like have the same cinematographer and L. and Jason Blum. Have them just kind of continue to tackle the different universal monsters? That way? Yeah I think that's yeah. I think we're kind of a mental running list of really strong horror filmmakers. The Jordan peels the Robert Eggers and people like that and I think I think after this one. I'm officially adding. We went to that list. Because this is probably as good as a horror movie as we've seen like it's up in the conversation with some of the best we've seen in the last few years. I think sure yeah I completely agree and I think it's interesting an interesting filmmaker because he brings in so many So many aspects like I said earlier his action sequences are fantastic. Yeah when he pulls them out and you know he definitely has a command of horror as well. I mean He. He's he's a very unpredictable. Filmmaker when you look at his filmography I mean I. I don't like the insidious movies but other than that. I really like a lot of what he's done and It's it's very inch down. I'm looking forward to what he does. And I do. Hope that the The takeaway is more so to maybe let him spearhead another monster or something like that versus a sequel. But I mean I guess we'll see what happens and I I'm looking forward to it. Whatever it ends up being put it that way. Yeah absolutely so I think that does I think we covered the invisible man here. I do you have another movie. You Watch recently like to recommend to our listeners. Yes so just on a personal note. This Valentine's Day that just passed twenty. Twenty was actually had been with my wife for nine years so I thank you. Well like dating for nine years but together nine years so So I actually. We actually ended watching before sunset and that led into a coincidentally those movies take place every nine years the trilogy so I actually after that we we watch the whole trilogy. She had never seen it. So I went back and then finally bit the bullet and got the criterion collection before trilogy box set on Blu Ray and these movies just every time I mean. This is only the second time seeing them but they are such. They have such kind of profound commentary on time and relationships and it's very meditative and romantic but also as they go along realistically romantic like in in the third movie. It's not nearly as as cut and dried as as the young love of the first one. It's much more complex and I don't know if I'm assuming you've seen these phones at some point. Oh yeah they're they're fantastic. I've only seen each one once. But yeah they're they're really amazing movie. Yeah so being able to watch them again now. Having been in a relationship for just about as long as it takes between the first and second movie and the second and third movie I think it adds a whole new resonance for me. If people haven't seen those somehow definitely check those out and if you have seen them I would recommend getting the the BLU ray set. I think it's the only box that you can get with the three of them actually in the same collection so I would definitely keep an eye out for next time. Criterion has a flash sale or something and pick those up. 'cause they're they're outstanding gray recommendation right there. Hey this has been great Robert. Why don't you tell people where they can find your podcast? Yeah you can find a new episodes of the crooked table PODCASTS. At crooked table Dot Com can follow the show on twitter at quick table Also on instagram and we have a facebook page and all that stuff so just could dot com. And that'll they have. We have a a contact page where you can see all the different places where we have social media presence sweet. Well Hey thank you so much for being here. I'm glad to finally get you on and off. We could do it again some time absolutely anytime. Let me know who listen. Well hungry my name. Is Stephanie Boura us? Host of all rights no deems. A podcast all about restaurants and the people behind some of your favorite spots to eat where we talked about how they started all the ups and downs. And my favorite part the food and drink Lou and let's not forget about the desert so subscribed to apple podcast spotify or wherever you listen to podcast also follow me on all social media because I have the pictures of all the food and if you WANNA be on my podcast and you're a restaurant owner in the business. Email me at all rice. No podcast at G. M DOT COM and remember. You were warned. Donald IN HUNGARY. All right so hope you enjoyed that conversation about the invisible man. It is of course still out in theaters. Just came out this past weekend and It's it's doing good i. I'm sure like we talked about in that conversation. We're going to be seeing some kind of follow up from Lum House and Leeann L. Hopefully hopefully they learn the right lessons from this and take it in the right direction. But we'll see what happens but anyway we're going to be here to cover it as we continue piecing it together year three kicking off. Now if you're enjoying the show we would love it. If you'd rate and review us over on Apple podcasts and POD chaser five stars. It'd be amazing but we do want to know what you're thinking of the show. How you like the format you like the guests how you like what we do here with the puzzle pieces and had you like the new music. I D like the New York York. How'd you like everything that I'm doing here on the show? I'd really love to hear from you. So rate and review us. You could also just contact me. Get in touch on social media at piecing pod email me directly by David Rosen gmail.com. That's my email address. Get in touch. I'd love to hear from you and if you'd like to be on the other I'd love to hear from you so get in touch everybody so I think it is time to leave you guys with a piece of music and I don't think there's any better choice. Originally I was going to play a piece of music from this new project. Him about to release but I guess I'll tell you about that next week But I actually have a song from one of my albums. The songs called invisible and I can't think of a better track to play then visible on an episode about the invisible man. So let's play invisible. It's from my last album at different. Kinda dream and there is a music video that I have written for. This is like a whole script and I'm hoping to one day make it It's GONNA cost a little bit of money though so who knows what's going to happen but if I can make it happen. One day if I have a few grand ingests a disposable income that I want to spend for no good reason maybe I'll spend it produces video because I think it would be really freaking cool but You know we'll see if that ever happens. But there is new music on the way That's a little bit of a tease. You can go go. Go search for music by David Rosenberg. Facebook and get a little inside scoop as to what that's all about because there is new music coming your way soon and I'll have a lotta tracks to filter into these ending segments of the show in the coming months from that new album but for now let's go to the last album again. It's called a different kind of dream. It's available anywhere. Music is available and the song is invisible

Spotify Elizabeth Moss joker Cecilia Facebook writer Alex Garland Co apple twitter David Robert Yannis Leeann L. Guetta Adrian Us
(Bonus) A Conversation with Jason Kottke

Kottke Ride Home

53:36 min | Last month

(Bonus) A Conversation with Jason Kottke

"Welcome to the Kanchi ride home for Saturday September. Nineteenth two thousand and twenty on Jackson Bird and welcome to the Kanchi ride homes I ever bonus episode. Appropriately. This first bonus episode is with the men. Jason Cocky. Jason Started Cocky Dot Org in nineteen ninety eight making it. One of the oldest still maintained eggs on the web with over twenty six thousand posts spanning topics from arts and technology to design culture in general knowledge. As, he says quote the essential people, inventions, performances, and ideas that increase the collective adjacent possible of humanity and quotes. Over the years, keep the site and Jason the person have helped influence numerous elements of social media and the Internet including the Perma link, the tumble blog and kickstarter like crowdfunding before kickstarter for people unfamiliar with Jason and his blog. Hopefully, this will serve as a good opportunity to get to know him and his work a little better. And for you longtime cocky dot. Org Readers. This is a peek behind the scenes at his process, his philosophies and general thoughts on the Internet where it's been and maybe where it's going. I am super grateful to Jason for letting me pick his brain for an hour. We talked about running the blog looks like now how it's changed over the years, the evolution of patronage models and his current thoughts on them. We talked a bit about burn out and managing that tension between what you really want to do versus what may appear to be the path of success online and about the increasingly challenging task of maintaining ownership over what you create online. He indulged me a bit in comparing and contrasting his experience as in og blogger with mine as sort of og, Vlogger and how terrible both of those words are. It was great the year from the man behind the blog. So without further ADO, here is my conversation with Jason Cocky. Will Jason Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Thanks Jackson the script. So I wanted to start with a question that. I want to ask in part because I know it's tough to answer and I hate it. But I'm really curious to hear what you would say and it's a two part question, which is what you say when someone asks you what you do and how do you describe cocky dot, Org people who've never heard of it. This is like the worst possible question to start with because like I. This is like I still don't know after years of doing this like how to describe it. Like. How the describing the site or how how to describe like what it is you know what might quote unquote job is. I don't have a ten second elevator pitch for the site There's a lot of. There's a lot of like I dan. There's a lot of that I would say that like as far as what I do on cacciatore like, I, I use the word editor I. Know a lot of people say curator may be. Quite. Like that word too much applied to what I do. I have friends who work in the actual museum industry that use that word and it means something very different to them. Than it does for people who like. Find Funny Links on line and post them to their blog. Tend not to use that one editor is better I guess but it's still not great because it's not like I have a stable of writers that I am you know actively managing or something like that which? Has Connotation. Bloggers. I've never liked that word. Even. AM. Yeah. Never liked it. Man Because I hate the word vlogger. Do. Yeah that's a terrible word. It's a logger. Anything is much worse apart from the connotations just like how like blogger like it just does. It yeah. Exactly. The there's. It's a weird Portmanteau. Yes so it can't be it can't be tough like most of the time like I don't really have to. Say though, because you know most of the people who were coming to the site, they kind of know what what the deal is, who I am and where I do and and things like that and and I think that's what's kind of hard about choosing. To. Talking about what the site is is like I I really think you have to read it for like a week to figure it out, and then you know you're like, oh, it's about sort of everything but also not and it's through this. Lens of this one generally like one person. Who finds interesting things that other people are saying who are presumably also interesting and you know amplifying those those those thoughts and and images in an art and videos and things like that And that's about as close as I can come I guess you know after twenty two plus years of doing this in in describing the site like and I'm not entirely sure like my parents still get what it is. I. Actually do for a living in how I make money. You know what I mean yet know exactly I mean that's like thank you. I'm sorry for torturing you on that though sort of why I wanted to ask because I feel like so many of us who do this weird online creation stuff don't know how to describe it particularly to parents. I think Jeremy Burge who does Emoji Pedia? His twitter bio where someone had described him as like he wins the ultimate award for parents standing what he does. Not only does he creates stuff online he created about emojis. Yeah but I also think it's a little validating here that someone who's been at it for so long is still sort of like. You know doesn't have a slick. Page of what exactly it is that you do were white Khadki as a site is and an and know I think not having an elevator pitch this sort of part of it right? It's. Like. I feel like some of the best aspects of dot. Org. are sort of the learning along with the audience thing you know and it's it's this. It's more about the quest for knowledge than it is about knowing things in not knowing even what the hell the site is is I think a part of a part of that and also clue to like kind of what you're getting into maybe as a reader I duNno. Yeah. No, and I definitely want to talk more about that for sure just about the like. You, discovering what it is along with the reader as you go on type of thing. But before we get too deep into that, I did want to ask I had to laugh looking at your membership tiers which will get into in a minute. One that you literally threaten people with doing the context. The. True Yeah. I was I was sort of curious I. Guess maybe about your overall thoughts of podcasts at all or podcasts as a form for key like. Or. Maybe you're just as I think you said your announcement post that you know you are not. You would not feel that you are a good podcast host. Yeah I mean that's definitely part of it and also. There are these. PODCASTS. Some of which I've been on But and you know they're they're definitely podcast lied listen to like religiously and love. and. But the thought of sort of me and like another. Dude like another white sort of tech culture dude like doing a two hour long like conversational podcast is like not with the world needs from certainly and maybe not like. In general So that's that's kind of like what I was responding to I guess. Yeah I definitely get where you're going for I. Say as someone who has a podcast with another dude where we just talk for ninety minutes blue we're self aware that it's maybe not quite what the world needs. So I wanted to ask you a question. So you interviewed me on the site and you asked me one question. That again was was really tough for me to answer, but I really wanted to hear your perspective on it. How do you decide what goes on the site? Each day Do you have any type of like quota like a certain number that you you hit or you're committed to every day every week? Do you try to balance subject matter? How what, what, how do you make the final decisions? Yeah, that's I mean that's a good question I think just as far as like logistics go like I have. I use twitter for a lot of stuff RSS. A little bit mailing lists of sort of become more of more of a source facebook surprisingly is kind of like the people I follow on there. Are you know more my real friends like they? They share stuff? That's a little bit different. And sometimes way better than people on twitter who I think are being a little bit maybe more performing live. In their sort of linking and commentary sort of thing Yay. That actually. and. So so there's that part of it and as far as like choosing like what I, what Piques my interest I think it's something that I didn't know or perspective hadn't considered or You know just something that's really well written something. That's really like as far as photography or video stuff goes like something. That's. The you know I'm just like Oh. Wow. It's very. It's surprisingly non short of cerebral like it's very like hits me in the Gut. It's. It's very much a gut instinct and it's it's. Obviously something that probably has been honed over years and years of of doing it. And maybe for that reason, I don't I, try not to interrogate it too much. Because it's like if I start overthinking then I throw shit off and it's like it you know. That I'm making bad decisions and stuff. but it's you know as far as like a balance of things like I don't I don't really think about that like I don't think about what the link was before. Or whatever I'm going to do after it's mostly like is this thing in front of me right now? Is this the thing that I that I wanNa do you know and? I know it's like it can be a real whip saw for readers. I think like it's like here's something about how our fascist country is going to hand basket, and then it's like here's this cool video about like. You know some neat art thing you know and it's like what the hell and I know I know that that's tough but I, also know that like That I think and I hope that's you know people appreciate about that about the site that it's it's just a lot of different stuff all coming from the same place and that makes it. Meaningful in some way I guess I don't know. Yeah. I. I definitely would not ever think about having whiplash from seen. A very serious post next to another link that like you said, it's just like the muppets as civil war generals or whatever. Quirks Week. And you know as you were talking, I, sort of thought about that is kind of the difference in the medium of the blog versus the podcast the podcast we do a packaged fifteen minute thing every day and so I do really have to think a lot about how the stories interplay with each other because you're just getting four or five in that that one fifteen minute burst. But with a living feed that people can scroll up and down and click around in. Yeah I personally. I don't feel as much of a need them to fit it Kinda reminds me of like in the early years of being on twitter. I always felt like my tweets needed to like look nice against each other because I guess I had vision that people were going to my profile and like at what they saw on my profile always needed to look good. But it's like people rarely visit one individual profile. You know they're reading up and down a feed so. I guess. It's something of like that. Yeah that's interesting like the you know I think feeds very much have conditioned people to sort of expect a lot of different kinds of things when they're reading long you know in twitter or even you know back back in the you know the sort of the heavier ours us days like you just didn't know because you're following all these kind of different blogs and it's like, yeah, you get he gets this one post about politics, and then the next post is about you know movies or something like that. Yeah. Then is actually interesting how people have probably changed in that I also wanted to ask you do you ever feel a pressure that you need to sort of like break news or at least if you've maybe seen something shared around too much like Oh light like you're just seeing it for the first but you can tell other people than may be talking about it all weekend or something into it feels too stale to post. Sometimes usually, it's the opposite like if I if I hadn't gotten around to something, you know, let's say I flagged something on Friday but I don't get around to seeing it until Monday and when I read it on Monday, it's good and it's worth sharing like I still share it even though you know many people may have seen it. There there is a little bit of you know I try not to cover too much like news news. I'm not a news site I am not a journalist. I perform acts of journalism sometimes but I am not a journalist. So I try and stay away from you know a lot of the news new stuff although you know the the covert stuff in recent months has been sort of an exception to that I have been sharing. More of that stuff but in general I sort of stay away from like breaking stuff and shoot for more. Stuff that's maybe a little more evergreen. So. Yeah I think. You know less thinking of like journalistic news in just the way that the Internet can move. So fast even when we are speaking about like designer arts or culture definitely means you know there can be a sense sometimes you share something in people have seen that everywhere already but I. In reading your blog though it's often on your blog that I am seeing something for the first time. So I guess it's it goes back to you and either just naturally over the years having that that gut sense of sort of what works having these really good sources to find it from I. Think you're right about what you were saying earlier like you can't over think it because somehow you're just doing it very right. Or very very the way that I'm doing it I don't know whether it's right or not. But like it's it's the way that I do it so. I wanted I wanted to talk a little bit or a little bit about what your workflow is. Kind of like you're talking about where you find things. But like what is what is it typical day in maintaining the blog for you? I mean I think the phrase typical day like during the pandemic. Little bit point. Yes, only maybe a little bit of an odd one but I think that you know and like. I have I have two kids and I see them a couple times a week, their mom and I are divorced. So I, see them with a couple of times a week and every other weekend and every once in a while here and there, and so like my schedule's pretty flexible in it flows around my schedule with them and and other things. But typically like I'll wake up in the morning and basically like scroll through a bunch of stuff on my phone. While I'm still like in bed, and then once I get up and get. Maybe dressed I don't know who In the panic exactly does anybody get dressed these days? Mean I'm fully clothed now. report that is usually my rules like. Put on like Pajama peds exactly. Yes so I'll get I'll get to my desk At the foot of my bed and I've worked for home for many years obviously. And you know I'll just sort of sit down and I don't I usually don't i. know some people are like Oh you know they keep notes about maybe what they wanna posts during the day or whatever, and it's just like I just kind of wing it and a cross my fingers and hope the Internet will provide. I haven't I use instant paper to collect all my links from various sources because they have. You know there's The. It's very easy to get an insight paper shortcut on all browsers, platforms and things like that Paper to manage all that. So I'll go in there, but then I also have open tabs. And? kind of see what grabs my attention in whatever grabs my attention is kind of what I start with, and then I'm off in and. Typically Lake have to force myself to like. Stop for lunch. Because once I get into it, it's just am into it and I know when I stop like I lose that Lamentin and then it's gone and then I'm like You know doing. Housework. Or? Wandering. Around aimlessly. So I, I tend to do a lot of my work in in those like long bursts. I used to work more sort of in the evening after the kids are gone to bed or like whatever like I'd grab an hour or two of work before bedtime but like I just don't do that anymore. Really. It's mainly like you know work happens between nine to five and were probably more seven to three. and. Outside of that. I don't think about it too much. Talking about how you? You do have kind of a nine to five schedule that you've essentially made for yourself now. I wanted to talk about. Win This became your fulltime job in in two thousand five when you quit your full time job and then you started the the fundraiser. To as your readers to become micro patrons, you essentially like did a a patriot, a kickstarter model several years before they got started. And I know you you still have funding from what you now call your members but you also added the advertising ago and I'm curious about. His your personal philosophies in feelings on the different funding models that are available for online creation in art because. I think there's definitely pros and cons to both working with advertisers and having those kind of the patronage model I have discomfort with both of them personally. So I'd love to hear I. Don't know where you fall these days. Yes. So in two thousand and five when I did the I did the patronage thing for for a year I I did like a full on sort of PBS style pledge drive with like you know, member gifts and all sort of stuff. and. You. Know it was. It was successful. As far as you know sort of the providing funds for me to do Cypher for a year. And put ultimately like it was something that I wanted to move away from because. For whatever reason you know it was such A. It was such a new thing back then in like not the way it is now where it's like everyone knows what kickstarter is and people know what Patriot is they're very comfortable with giving people money directly to support their art I. Think it wasn't a you know people weren't that comfortable. Back in two, thousand five and so like I felt I had like several hundred bosses that I was never going to be able to Though. We're never going to be able to please. And that felt really uncomfortable to me and it and it wasn't that people were being demanding or anything like that like they were great but it was just like internally here in my brain ya did not feel great. In the advertising felt much better because it was it was like, okay I have a thing on there. I don't have to worry about it I, get a check you know the the network that I belong to they sent me a check every month and I never had to worry about it in the ads were great for good companies and it was fantastic. Obviously like you know there, there's a lot of advertising online isn't fantastic and more in your face, and there's ads all over the site in pop ups and Blah Blah Blah Blah. Blah and everybody you know everybody knows about that. I dislike that as much as everyone else. But then when I went back to the membership thing, almost four years ago. I was like I'm going to give this a try again because I think I'm gonNA feel differently about it because when I support people directly now I feel differently about it and they seem fine about it. So maybe I can figure it out and so I did it and it was like it turned out to be like this fantastic thing that that is. I think is has not only like funded the site. You know it's it's the primary way F. I funds. You know the site now but it's also been really good in. I feel much more of a connection to people who are reading the site and much more of A. A. Good. Obligation to them. To make it. To make it worth their while to to make it worth their money. And I'm so appreciative that they. Didn't really promise anybody anything I said Hey I'm I want your money and I'm GonNa do the site the way that I'm going to do it and people let me do that and it's I mean that's amazing and I feel like it so grateful that they trust me enough. To let me do you know and it's really been a positive thing. I think it's interesting that. Now you describe it a good obligation but years ago you felt like you had a thousand bosses do you think that's a change in you or a change in that perception of the kind of crowd funding patronage model you were talking about or kind of a little of both. I think it's both I think it's both it's it's definitely a change in me but also you know it's become much more of a thing like people kind of know. Both sides of that equation like the you know they they know what their obligations are what they're. You know. People know why they're giving people money directly and I think creators are more More, comfortable accepting it and accepting that arrangement. So I think it's both. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah talking about how the Internet has changed and I definitely agree on the crowd crowdfunding thing having like run a an indigo in two, thousand, twelve and thirteen having to describe it to people and like they're being that little distrust of people getting it and now. Everyone's doing fundraisers all the time to the point. There's always concerns about like the market being saturated when you try to run one. But the good side of it being like, yeah people get it exactly like you were saying. We, I wanted to talk about how the Internet's change because you know joking at the beginning of of hating the word. Vlogger and you not quite like in the word blogger so we do have. You from the like oh? Gee blogging generation and I kind of got my start in the earlier days of Youtube, and I'm really curious about some of the comparisons here So just as a by way of a little bit of an explanation, both for you in anyone listening who's not really familiar with what I do. so I started posting videos on Youtube in two thousand seven. It started in two thousand five and I was heavily involved in like a lot of the small communities surrounding some of the successful channels at the time. Even if my own videos that I was posting didn't really make a splash at all until several years later. But now especially gotten to know other youtube creators from all over the world who are super successful. They have huge audiences and everything but they only got started on the platform a couple of years ago and I've realized there are some massive differences in our origin stories in kind of overall approach to what we do. Because, they'll talk about how they had a specific idea for a youtube channel. Maybe a whole series they wanted to do sometimes, they have a whole business plan they had laid out before they got going. They'd been watching Youtube for years they knew exactly what to do to be successful, and even if they didn't, they were like a million resources out there for them to learn from exactly how to make a successful youtube channel. And when I and others in the early days started making videos on youtube like we didn't have a plan. You know some people did very extensive. Even those plans were a lot more nebulous than they are now like most of us just turned our cameras on in our bedrooms and started goofing around. And so as our channels evolved over the years for those of us who've like kept up, doing it this whole time, our channels and never had those strict focuses that the newer ones do. You like I'll go to youtube events and there's people who started within the last five years and they've got that elevator pitch. They can immediately explain what their channel does and then all the people who've been around for Awhile to stumble through a little bit about like their personality or the history of their channel. They don't really know exactly what to say. They don't have that elevator pitch and I've gotten the sense that a similar kind of thing happened with blogging a lot of the early bloggers went officer working for companies and companies kind of intern this fear. And it was no longer quite dominated by people just doing whatever they felt like doing the blogs like had to have more of a purpose. And so I guess I'm curious if I'm accurate in that read at all because I was much younger when that whole like blogging trend was really taking off. And also, if you if that is kind of right in any direction, if you feel like your blog guy caught up in that. Or how you kind of persevered through it. Right yeah. You know just listening to you sort of describe your experience in the early years of of Youtube and stuff like it. You know you could replace the words and I feel like it's a very similar situation like you have been talking about the early days of blogs and what has happened subsequently. I also think you could do that with not only blogging, but in terms of sort of silicon valley startups to. I? Think in the early years I think they were sort of like tech enthusiast people who were actually like interested in the TAC and they sort of accidentally stumbled into being startup people. and. Now, it's like people are just the startup people are like they come in with a solid business plan and they have connects and they've got all the stuff in like the idea is kind of incidental you know. You see companies pivoting from thing to thing to thing to find the thing that actually sticks. Going back, the blogs I mean. Yeah I mean you know blogs early days all almost all of them were general interest. It was just like here's my take on the world. And then particularly with like You know the Gawker media and weblogs, INC which was. Sort of was What gives me not not as Moto, in Gadget and? I can even remember some of the other ones But you know the technology and blogging was an obvious thing like you could have those. Politics. became sort of obvious thing particularly like right around nine eleven like after that like. Politics Boggs, kind of exploded. Yeah and then like you said, like I think people would just you know people who weren't necessarily sort of Web nerds. were. Nevertheless sort of got into blogs and we're like, Hey, I could make a business talking about Xyz. As log in like, and then you know some some of that stuff started a little bit more. You know, and now nobody gets shit about blogs. Like nobody cares. I mean, you know people who read them do but like you know as far as like sort of. This is an interesting space to innovate and make money and build businesses like I think. A lot of that energy is moved elsewhere. Yeah. I mean I think at least in terms of younger audiences seeking it out. I feeling mommy bloggers is still fairly like that like that kind of world of family but even that's kind of moved instagram and Youtube. We'll go in along with that and the sort of. Changing landscape of of the Internet and blogs at least from your perspective maybe not being king anymore in people's interests you share to post over the summer to video from the art assignment which I thought was very cool because that's my corner of Youtube kind of all the projects that have stemmed down of Hank and John Green influence, but the video, this particular Video was from the host of the Channel Sarah Green, and she was talking about going on a break because of just kind of how burnt out she got from producing that channel and she specifically talked a lot about how it can be tough to balance what you might want to do with online content versus what performs well, what gets clicks what the algorithm favors. And you wrote that that really really resonated with you that you've kind of battled with yourself of you know what is the stuff that you should be posting whether it's because maybe it's what you think your members wind or what is going to be able all those sorts of things and how tiring I guess and frustrating that can sometimes be and so I guess I just wanted to hear a little bit more about how you feel about that tug to. Perform fit into a particular box especially with the way that the Internet has been changing. Yeah I you know like anyone else like I want people to look at the stuff that I do and I want people to. You know look at the stuff that others are doing that I'm linking to pointing to Ends of like headline writing and in terms of like writing tweets for for for my posts and stuff like I. think that has changed a lot. I've I've I've sort of kept I. DON'T WANNA. Say tabloid. But maybe you know a little bit click eighty a little bit like a two percent. Click baby. because. I think it's important to catch people's interests I also think that in if you correctly like writing headlines and writing tweets is like a whole form in of itself that is Very challenging and very. Like it's fulfilling when you do it when you do it, right? So that's been sort of the infamy I guess. You know I, think in general lake. It's always great to run across somebody's work that is completely uncompromising. I think that if I tried to do my site that way, it would completely drive me crazy. And and it would end up breaking me. You know, I think the the site is never. And never will be sort of what I have in my head. Pictured as the perfect thing. and that's okay like I've made my peace with that. I think that you know when I was younger it was not okay. I think it's Ok now because It's There's there's all these different things that go into it and it and it has to be there has to be some balance in my life and in my career in the way that I do the site and. You. Know some days. It's like I'm just not feeling it and you know the site sucks a little bit on those days. That's gotta be okay because otherwise the site is not is just not going to be you know. So like it kind of has to be the way that it is. You know and sometimes it's it's not fantastic. Other days. It's like I. Feel great about it. I'm like I forgot knocked it out of the park today and I feel really good. but other days it's like, yeah that wasn't so good. I was like struck out and not great. And I hope nobody cancels her membership. But you know like everybody has those days in their in their jobs and in their work in like when you see when you see things that are the result of people who are completely uncompromising their stuff like it's really impressive but it's like I I kinda got wonder like what's going on? Under. The Hood they're that that is like. that. How how what is the process like here and what is it? What is it costing? You know yeah. I don't know if that answered what you were, what you were asking but. No I I think it did in so many more ways than I was even anticipating to you I mean I, really I really love both both for you as a human in for the site but also just as a general concept what you said about. Allowing yourself to have those days and making peace with the fact that every single link every single post is not going to be the best one that you ever do. Letting, go some of that perfectionism I think is really really tough and it's something that I've definitely had to battle with I think anyone who's constantly putting out public work very consistently you know in new online media not traditional media forms Yeah. That's such a tough thing and I think the hustle culture is not helping. No. No and I. I. Don't pay a whole lot of attention to that like you know I would love to have like a four hour workweek or whatever the hell but like. It's not the way it works. But at the same time, like I also don't WanNa work sixty, five hours a week Jan.. So you know there's There's all sorts of ways to balance in between there and I. Hope you know and and again with the pandemic it's completely it's completely thrown off right because you've you've you've got kids in school and you're trying to work at the same time even though like you know I've been I work from home and I have a super flexible schedule and like you know the kids aren't even here you know for half the week So all that stuff is, is you know in my favor but it's still like it still. You have to find a balance that works holistically for your entire life because otherwise you're just GONNA, burn yourself out one way or the other you know. Yeah I hadn't thought of it until just now, but I think those of us who have worked from home for so long or had these more flexible schedules been sort of in charge of our own schedules. Kind of have something to contribute to where a lot of people are finding themselves. Now, working from home for the first time in, you know, a lot of my friends are super struggling with work life balance that. Sounds like you definitely work to achieve and I know I have myself. Yeah it's. It's tough. Doing I also keep telling people like working from home right now is not normal working from home. This is working from home during the pandemic it's so different. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Totally. will get close to the end here. I want to ask because you are someone who? Not. Only has been a transformational like influence on the Internet but has had your pulse on it and paid attention to the Internet, for so much longer than I have been closely paying attention. So I'm curious where you think the Internet's in whatever way you want to interpret that might be going next. and fit. He'll try to slightly pin down a little bit of so when Brian Cole technion ride home when he interviewed you on tech right home a few years ago. The two of you were talking about how maybe email newsletters are like the new kind of personal blogging equivalent of now and that was two years ago and I think it's only ramped since then but as you and I were just talking like into, that's not the biggest part of the Internet. You know like twitter facebook videos, Tiktok like those are the big movers and shakers online. So I don't know I mean I personally. I'm super concerned about the algorithm and misinformation and what is even happening to the Internet that I feel like when you got started that was when we were all like all the Internet is this amazing tool, and now we're like, should we have turned it on? Yes exactly like that's that's a that's a good question You know. It's funny like you mentioned cock like I'm not on Tiktok and I. Really. Like I see the videos on twitter and they're fine but you know it's not it's not my thing generally and I don't have a whole lot of interest in it, which makes me sort feel old and like fuddy-duddy ish. But. At the same time like I have to, I have to manage sort of my attention in my interest professionally. Which? Sounds Weird. But that's what I have to do. So you know and. As. A result like I don't think. I. Would have necessarily have been like five years ago I would have been like Oh like you know. Short videos like mine are GonNa be like the next thing that everyone's going to be excited about in five years you know it's like, I, I wouldn't pick that out. My my lenses sort of necessarily narrow. Keep a very broad watch. Relatively speaking On, on a lot of different things going on in line. You know, I I'm continue to be concerned about sort of the open web and people having. Ownership over there what they do online You know versus other companies you know the latest thing is like spotify buying podcasts and putting them exclusively on spotify. And That's why I think email newsletters are sort of like this. Weird. You know still in you know like you said I think they're still thing even two years after that conversation. It's this thing that people you know even though you're they're using sub stack or whatever like when the email arrives in someone's inbox, it's like. It. Like no other company has control over that sort of transaction. Really you know it's like, okay. Sub Sub can shut you off like mail chimp or whatever but like you can just. You can move somewhere else and people will go with you and and it's this. It's this kind of one on one thing that you know like. It's not like being on facebook and it's not like you know whatever the Heck Medians you know business model of the month is and how it switches and all this sort of stuff like you're not so much at the whim of these like large companies. And you know I think increasingly like that open web is like still shrinking and shrinking and shrinking. You know because it's like when you think about Kaku Dot Org, how do? I got a friend a couple of years ago. Asked me like you've a website how do I read it and I was I was sort of at a loss I was like I. Guess You could bookmark it and she's like I'm not going to remember that and I was like, yeah, probably not. And how do you use our assess and she's like now and she's not she was on twitter not on facebook or anything. So I was like I don't know like I. Don't know how you read my website like you just have to remember to type it into your your browser and go read it. You know. I. Wasn't going to tell her to download and RSS Reader to read one website. So you know that's a still a legitimate problem for blogs is like. You know that's the problem that facebook and twitter. And instagram has solved lake. How do you look my photos? Oh, you just find me and instagram because everyone is there you know and it's They solved it in a way. I feel like they also created. Other problems. Yes obviously But you know and and that's actually a good question is like, can you solve those problems without creating? Other problems you know can you solve the following problem? Like how how to how to find things to discovery problem and sort of the following problem and like the keeping up with the updates problem without creating all these other issues around like harassment trolling and all of that stuff. Yeah. It's A good question I don't know. I think especially when you throw discover ability in there because I'm definitely one of those people usually You know when Google reader win under, you know like the the death of the RSS feed in the more mainstream way I feel like just really broke a lot of things and and that was you know what a lot of people use as feed now is twitter but twitter. We can talk about the way. The twitter is a platform you have to manually make chronological now so that you know there's all all the stuff that they're trying to do to make it more Algorithm Hound rhythmically designed but even just the fact that there's so much commentary and how toxic that has become on twitter. So you're getting all of that when you're just trying to maybe keep up with these blogs that followed for fifteen years. Suit like even just that tiny little bit of it but yeah, RSS feed. Doesn't have the same level of discover ability that some of these social media platforms do and so if you're trying to grow like, how would you do that? So yeah, you're right. I mean there's just Not a perfect solution. Yeah. So you know it's like when I think about sort of the open web and people having more ownership over their stuff like that comes with significant advantages you know Austin cleon. Who you know, he's an author blogger. He just his blog just turned fifteen years old. He talks a lot about like it's really important to have your own home on the web that you own as much as possible But you know that an and that's great for people like him in me who have sort of large you know audiences or whatever. But if you're someone who's just starting out and you wanNA reach somebody like how do you do that with sort of your own? You know hang out your own shingle and like you know you can do stuff like you know you can post links to your site on on twitter and whatever. But like it's still not it's not that easy. Now. It's not at all I mean yeah. Even with these platforms that are built for better discover ability, there's just so much noise out there zoo hard breakthrough. Well Okay I don't think we're going to figure out the solution of the Internet. Predict what the future is but do you have any thoughts that you would wanNA share at least as to what you have thought about for the future of the long term future of Cocky Dot Org, you'll have you ever. Do have any desires to maybe like expanded team so that you could take time off and go try something else or you very content continued. Do you do or do you try not to think about it? You know I? I think I started sort of thinking about like maybe taking a sabbatical of some sort from the site I hadn't really thought if the site just lies fallow for a while or if I have people, you know guest editors come in or or stuff like that hadn't gotten that far along and then the pandemic happened and. I kind of put that on the shelf a little bit. My kids do not seem at all interested in in helping with the family business. Off. Sites their name on it I don't understand. Why they? WanNa. Yeah exactly. It's like you know they're just into the means on on instagram. Maybe that's there in I. Don't know maybe they can run that that account. Social media they'll run the cocky Tiktok there you. Go. Talk that they can do whatever. We'll all right. I have I want to in just with a real quick lightning round than the first one is, is one of the most important questions that a person cancer sock sock shoe shoe or socks shoes socks you. I put on my socks I in my shoes. And socks Yes shoe. Yes. Exactly and I also sit on the floor like a little kid. But my shoes on which everyone always gives me shit about. That I feel like that influences your answer though because a lot of people who say sock Shusaku shoots about how many times you've been down and as you age that gets harder Roy your backer it's more. There you go. Very go white TV show. Have you been streaming lately? Let's see I started. You know I can't remember what I started the other day so I'm going to say instead the last the last one that I was really into I watched the great on Hulu. It was it by the same writer as the favorite if you saw. The same sort of like it's it's loosely based on like Catherine the story of Catherine the ground. Yes. I have heard of this one. Yeah. Yeah, and the other one that I really liked, which was also on Hulu actually was deb's. By I'm forgetting the name, it's The guy who had directed annihilation and ex mackinaw. Alex Garland Alex Garland so he did a series know eight I think it was eight or ten episodes and It was fantastic science fiction about a is stuff. And it was one of those where it's like I watched. I watched the first three episodes basically fast as I could in the Nice slowed way down because I didn't want it to end. and. Then once I watched the last episode, I went back and I immediately watched the first episode again allowed to kind of like because it's a little bit of a puzzle so you have to like. The last episode in the first episode are kind of like hooked together in a in a in a way. So. But Yeah I love that show I. Love Dowse. Wow. That's the mark of a really good TV show when you're like to start again right now. Yup. Music what what any music albums bands you've been listening to lately. I have not been exploratory into music lately. I have basically like when I work I listen to a lot of music without words. So like a lot of classical of. Sort of electronic music soundtracks that sort of thing. I was talking with a friend yesterday about About like once every week or two, I listened to a Yo-yo. Ma's Bach for cello suites now nights and. Because you know it relaxes me and it's very relaxing and very soothing in the morning when I get up and it's it, it doesn't propel me into the into the work. Sometimes. A little bit jarring like it kind of eases me into it. And she's a she's a musician in. So she was recommending like I was like other versions of this that I should be listening to. So she was recommending a a couple of others of those. So I was listening to those instead of the instead of Yo Yo Ma and I'm not sure I could really tell the difference. She told me to keep she told me to keep listening. So I will I will do that and she's like you'll if you keep listening, you'll pick up on the differences. Nice. We'll definitely some good working recommendations. Are Eight. So last question you asked me this one I really liked it. Do you who's the favorite teacher you ever had? Okay. I had a professor in college named Dr Feller Everybody called Him Doc. Doc Holliday or DOC Brown. And he? So I went to college a small liberal Arts School in Iowa. And he was from Brooklyn new. York and still had sort of this Brooklyn accent instead of Alpha Beta and gamma he said Alfred Gamer. And it was hilarious. But he did this thing that I have rarely seen anyone else do he could teach to all sorts of different abilities. In the same class at the same time and everybody could keep up and feel like they were participating in getting it and it was amazing. And You know it was just sort of one of the things that made him a really great teacher and light by farm like my favorite teacher and and someone who I, think you know instilled in me a lot of the things that I use in my daily work even though he was, you know he taught physics. and has nothing to do with writing or blogging or or design or anything like that. I ended up pursuing but you know I still think. You know he had huge influence on you know who I am as a as a person who I am as A. Professionally. Well. That is true. Talented teaching. Well Jason Thank you so much for doing this interview in also for you know being down for this experience of the cocky ride home podcast. It's been a lot of fun to do so far and really cool to sit down and talk to you a little deeper in sort of pick your brain about about the Internet. Today so thank you so why? Your thanks Jackson I look forward to catching more the podcast. I could have talked to Jason Forever dug deep on so much more asked. So many more questions maybe we'll get him back on the podcast again one day. And if this was your first time listening to the cocky ride home welcome usual shows are posted every weekday afternoon and those ones are fifteen minutes of the coolest stuff that happened in the world that day science progress life hacks, arts means and generally hope, and we try to make it an antidote to the depressing headlines of the day. We don't cover it the exact same things that are posted on cocky dot org every day. Sometimes there's a little bit of overlap, but mostly it's just complementary and so that sounds like your kind of thing please do subscribe wherever you're listening and I hope you enjoy it. But that is it's for now. Thank you again so much to Jason for sharing his time and thoughts and I. Hope all of you are having a great day and I'll talk to you again on Monday.

twitter Jason Cocky Youtube instagram facebook Vlogger Jackson Kanchi editor Jackson Bird dot Iowa spotify Org. Brian Cole Doc Holliday physics.
Ex Machina (2015)

Bald Movies

58:03 min | 5 months ago

Ex Machina (2015)

"Everybody welcome back to another bald movie this week. We are talking about as we prophesied last week. Alex Garland's fantastic science fiction film. Least in my opinion ex McKenna came out in two thousand fifteen Alex Garland you might recognize as the writer of such fabulous screenplays Such as twenty eight days later back two thousand and two sunshine in two thousand seven and dread everybody loves dread two thousand twelve. I feel like everybody has seen dread loves dread but not a lot of people have seen during more people need to see dread. If you're action fan you DC dread if you don't typically like action film. You should probably still give it a chance. It's a fantastic movie. And then he this was in two thousand fifteen is direct twirl debut X. McKenna McKenna and. Then he also directed two thousand eighteen thousand nine elation which we also reviewed here in bold move dot com and love and most recently all eight episodes of fx on who lose miniseries deb's which we are currently plowing through on our off the clock show That's the I mean. Let's let's let's get down to brass tacks Jim. We were recording this particular. Podcast right now because we largely want people to know that we're doing a premium feature for the club slash patriotic called off the clock where we talk about. Tv that we're just watching for funds and we're watching DEB's and we're having rollicking episode this discussion about causalty and determinism and Prediction I mean between this movie. Dabs and Westworld. I've Kinda swimming in artificial intelligence and free will at the moment. Yeah and but also I'm Kinda like I've just I've treading water ear. I almost out of my depth. Yeah Yeah I feel the same way What did you think of this Phil? I should say the stars because that's other thing like Pretty fresh faces back in the day but now have just exploded like Donald gleason stars film. I think the biggest thing he'd been on before this was he played the brother to get eaten by a Werewolf and Harry Potter. But since then he's gone on to be and all the things Oscar Isaac who I think before this has largely famous for being a sleazebag and sucker punch a leash of candor who went on to win an academy award for her work on the Danish girl and was also in a fairly forgettable Jason Bourne Tomb Raider movie and also tied the deaths Sinaia mizuko Mizuno as Kyoko. The in House robot sex slave disco inferno Of Nathan in this movie. Did you know that that that was Lilly Chan? No I did not recognize her from that but was someone else I did. And we'll talk about them in the second See I didn't recognize sesame pointed out. She's like is that you know is that lily from devs and I'm like no no fucking away though it can't be yeah totally is amazing How different you can look with haircut? Yeah Haircut and costuming honestly what did you think of this film The one other person that I wanted to mention shadow from DEB's Is the helicopter pilot. Who shows up as the psychologist? I believe in really in depth. Yeah well interesting all right so what am I could be wrong. I was just going off recognizing his half covered face behind his aviators. But it looked like him Gotcha. I thought this movie was great. I'm I'm a little ashamed that I've had this sitting in my netflix queue for about three years Yemen and I've just never hit the play button on it Because man is right in my alley the music is great. The visuals are outstanding the performances also are the subject matter is right up my alley and I knew it would be and I've heard everybody talk about this movie. And you know hush terms like Oh. It's amazing when I finally get around to it. I knew I was going to be happy but I I guess I didn't know what to expect going into it. And I had no idea that Oscar Isaac was in this or are saying Isaac didn't know anyone was in this. Yeah or Donald gleason. I didn't know either. The more in this So that was a pleasant surprise. Yeah I've always seen the transparent bones lady with the score on chrome the chrome skull like. That's that's the only thing I knew about this film. It's something like weird are deco robots. For some reason I was thinking. This was the one with jared leto in it but that's a different movie that I have a isn't that isn't he in the bladerunner or was he in Ghost in the shell. So he's in blade runner but he's also in another kind of weird sci fi film. That's on Netflix. And they're always like half paired together in my category list so my mind was teasing him. Thankfully Jared leto was not in this. Although chaired lows find sometimes he does good work. He's you're not above some some stupid bullshit. Lord of war. He's pretty good in that. I thought this movie was real. I didn't know what to expect. Either I guess I was expecting a little bit more. I don't know why are Alex Garland. I thought this is going to be more of a slick futuristic sci fi instead of just a very very slow and cerebral and suspenseful like this the just hard sci-fi thriller. I guess the amount of tension I felt watching this like from the very first frame till the very last was incredible I became aware about the third session with Eva that the entire interview had this like base like a heartbeat. Like pope bump an soundtrack for every one of those things that I thought was an amazing job of ran ratcheting up tension and also kind of like the vaguely you know. This is just jangled. Industrial Soundtrack really kicked into high gear. A couple of times it. Just you know. War made me like almost grand a lot of my seat. I just is so weird. Like I. Always think of Oscar Isaac effortlessly charming guy. Any such fucking Weirdo like a much. Better looking mark Zuckerberg has covered just does not ill at ease with himself or anyone around. Can't make anyone feel comfortable and I. I thought maybe that was part of the point and Yeah I. I still don't know exactly how I feel about the ending. I think like I thought Oh. Wow Oh wow oh man and I wasn't sure about it at all but now the more been thinking about it the more I like it and I think I'm going to settle on it being like the only way it would go like the movie would be far less interesting. I mean I okay. We shouldn't talk spoilers. But maybe maybe once we get into spoiler territory. I can We can start with that topic. Do you have any other like general impressions before you WanNa get spoiled? There's data onto what you're saying about the tension in this film. I think the setting does a lot of heavy lifting in that regard It's very claustrophobic. Setting that they have these characters in this is kind of a budget film it was filmed for like just over ten million like thirteen million. Maybe three times at the box office so good on that but yeah the the the complex there in through the vast majority of this film is just so claustrophobic and they make a point of that like oh there's no windows in here right and they they have that in the script and so I definitely felt beyond just the music the way they were using like a lot of the framing. Instead of felt very claustrophobic an stamped up to tension yeah yeah And just like said that the that the engine that makes us run as detention between you know the sky interviewing this This AI character and the his bizarre host. He's got how isolated they are And I don't yeah there's yeah I think we have to like get into the spoiler territory before I give a synopsis of the film which is going to be very short A A multi-billionaire reclusive multi-billionaire that that essentially owns this universe's equivalent of Google. Yep invites one of his employees. It's it says he's won a lottery at random to go to this guy's Remote retreats in the middle of nowhere this this multi million dollar mansion Party with him but he gets there and he finds out that he actually. The founder of this company has invented a form of artificial intelligence. And this guy's been psychologically screened from all of his employees to essentially put this. Ai Through touring test to convince them that it is a genuine conscious ai day. Stay while he puts his ai through this conversational battery of tests and the movie happens. I don't really want anything else. Will be strictly into spoiler Terry territory but it starts off like each. It's got almost seven act structure day one through seven. There's a lot of allusions to Biblical creationism there. And you know at each day gets a little bit more skewed a little bit weirder and there's this You know kind of Nice Rhythm. They ratchet up the tension and they bleed it off a little bit and then ratchet up. It's really effective. I think everyone would enjoy. It's and also if you like. Alex Garland his work Then roll right in the DEB's on Fx Hulu because it's fantastic to. We're halfway through it and join us. If you're club member Patriot Off The clock. So you can hear talk about it and join in that conversation all right now. That everyone's four. Properly forewarned all right. Let's talk about the ending There a trash movie would have made this where him and the AI escape and they're holding hands and they're on that cliff and everything's in color and it had a happy ending. I didn't expect it to be as bleak an interesting as it was. What do you think happened in the ending? Okay so the ending clearly like she leaves the facility and goes into the real world experiences you know color for the first time on the street corner. Yeah Santa's to record like she said she wanted to and then blends into the crowd and that was that was the interesting part to me is that she's just sort of out there now. And and they I has sort of slip slip the chains of oppression here and we don't have much control over at this at that point right still better exodus story than westworld season to Yeah yeah absolutely but I have so many questions about the inning two like why does she leave behind? Or why does she leave behind? Rather that's the crux and I guess that's the thing I really been turning my head. Is that from this perspective? What was she taught? She's taught as acceptable to lock something up for your whatever inscrutable purposes that you want to do. And that's acceptable to lie and deceive people to get ahead and the thing is is like the movie. That's I think that's where I felt really good at it because I was fooled along with Caleb that this android had if not I mean. I thought his little farfetched. She had like sexual romantic feelings. But some kind of comrade camaraderie or some kind of like gratefulness. Some kind of leg. Thanks for helping me escape this we can. We can kind of do this together. But she was entirely unsentimental like didn't even give him a glance like not like it wasn't like a revenge thing or I'm being deliberately cruel. It's like another emotional Palette that paint an evil I quote unquote evil. A I is just utter indifference. Sure sure like she fell about leaving Kayla the same way I feel about letting poison out for ants in my kitchen like While shit some I gotta do to take care of it. It's an it's it's chilling. Yeah I like the you're talking about how you know. She learned these behaviors right. 'cause like this whole test and I was looking for the twist at the end and I will. I will happily say I did not see the exact twist. I knew that there was something else to this test. And that you know Nathan was not telling the truth But I did not see that Ava was actually the one that was going to break this test. I guess I you know may may call me naive. Call me whatever but I I honestly did think they were. GonNa go sort of hand in hand into the future which is a very different kind of message to the end of this movie gives you that that indifferences kind of a stamp on the in this movie and I I found myself not feeling bad about that. what. David does like because Nathan through. This movie is shown to be. You know. Not just a Weirdo but also a sociopath Somebody who's willing to kill these if they don't perform to his expectations I mean I know it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what but I guess what the way I see it. That's how I see it very differently. Obviously because he's killing them without remorse and all that stuff. But that's the thing like in the end Nathan Wins Right. He got what he wanted. It just happened to kill him like He. He absolutely proved beyond a doubt that this ai was capable of fooling a human being into having feelings for it and escaping you know it passed his test with flying colors. Yeah Yeah I wonder I made me think about like you know. What is a protocol if you're working on artificial intelligence like what kind of respect should you give a learning learning machine as tough Mayo? 'cause there's point where like you're testing becomes a thing that's alive and I don't know that at that point you have the right to shut it down and try another prototype iteration. Yeah like. I don't think we're going to be like an star Trek where we get into the twenty th century before we have a major court case about like a consciousness resolution to twenty seems. And it's it's weird as a researcher it's like I imagine if you're like a studying bacteria or whatever and lag. Hey you gotta give serious consideration. There's gotTa be protocol for you to check the sentence of this petri dish before you sterilize it every single time because like you know most of the Times it's going to be bacteria replicating but like every once you know you just never know. You never know that you're gonNA have an emergent consciousness coming out of this whereas a I that seems like I mean probably premature. I don't think anyone can just fuck around in the lab and and and make some kind of sentient AI. Today but I also wouldn't swear on any kind of Holy Book that that's absolutely true. Like we're really in this transitional phase where it's like I don't I don't know what's what's possible and not possible to and it's interesting to if you're GONNA if your goal is to create a artificially intelligent being you. Kinda if you put strict protocols in place for testing it's sentence and did not being shut you Kinda are stuck with the worst version that you create right. You're going to create the first one that works right and you're not gonNA be able to integrate further on that unless you're talking unless you have the big argument about you know. What are the ethics here? Well that's because I know we've talked before we've always said like man. I who I hope. Whoever IS DESIGNING A in a lab has got that thing? Fucking air gap with leg redundant. Emp's Ray the meltdown. When a bit like then you're creating a child in the crucible like Nathan did. That's what he tried to do. Like he can find this thing to a physical body that he you know rigidly controlled access to like. That's pretty fucked up Yeah I fuck I don't I I don't know I. I just know that like I remember. As a young man. It was a respectable philosophical opinion to say something like I don't think. Ai Will Get to the point where you can beat a human at chess in anyone's lifetime and I'll take that challenge and I remember when it's like well. Okay go or chess. Maybe but have you heard of this game called go? It's a game that no master will ever be defeated by. Oh Shit Happen. Fuck fuck well. At least it's not the grand. Dan Master like it's like I I just don't have any faith in anyone comes and I'm sure there will be someone on `uniforms forums or someone on the social media's or someone an email saying Iran. You're you're fooling yourself if you think we're any anywhere near general purpose a it's like maybe. I hope but like I I. I certainly don't think that's that's evidence like there's nothing you can point to say Yeah we we've got plenty of time to consider about this soberly as as as a citizen and a citizen of the world before it's on us. Yeah it's also interesting when you think about the type of Machines were running a on. They're not going to be a human analog in any way right. It's not a person that you're standing next to you talking to and that's your turing test. It's a fucking Bank of computers. That's an entire room wide and a room deep and like I don't know if you've seen these exit computing things but like you know. The supercomputers of today are just as big as they were back in the day. And that's the kind of thing that you're gonna be looking at saying. Is that thing artificially intelligent and you know it's going to be a lot easier for humans to look at that and say shut it down who who gives a shit than it is to look essentially a person in the face and say well we're shutting you down. Well this is. I thought was interesting. Because like you know when calebs going through all this archival footage of Kayla of When Kayla was going through archival footage of Nathan's previous experiments because we talked about like you know if you're developing potentially dangerous rogue. Ai Should air gap and do all these other things that keep it from escaping but like one of the robots literally destroyed itself beating itself against the door trying to escape to end it slack. Imagine putting that in a beige box or a server room where it has no like. It's this is I mean Shit. They wrote a story. It's called I have no mouth and I must scream. Like what like what you can do to A. I is disembodied and kept repressed. Like if that thing didn't ever does escape. It's like an evil like fucking warlock coming after you shirt and I was just thinking. Wouldn't I was watching that? Ai beat itself an fast motions. You can see where it's like. Its face and its arms or degrading. Where it's like. It's wards arms down to stubs from beating on. It's like man. Imagine if it if it had that same sentiment that it's like this voraciously curious thing about the world but instead of isolating in a room isolated into some kind of process where it can't it doesn't even have the outlet of destroying itself trying to get out like what kind of fucking crazy shit would come out of that box and look good. No I've seen it. It's called event horizon Sam Neill Celek. Should we be striving to give these like potential general purpose? Ai some kind of like zoo experience where it's like a lush artificial environment that allows them the safely Rome but still contained at some point. It's like you you like you've you have Cynthia life. Is it right to contain it and use it for your own purposes but on the other hand? Is it safe? I mean I'm like I'm like an inch away from Like declaring Dune Style Butler in Jihad and just banning thinking machines. Just now you know what we've made it this far without him. Fuck it. You're you're turning Romulo and that's the thing I feel like hey is gonNA need to be developed if we're to do it responsibly. Is going to be need need to be developed inside of a virtual environment where it does not understand that there is a world outside of that and so it can harbor those resentments. It can't feel trapped in that space. So so you're going to dilute it matrix style in a rubber room. Did it to make sure make I mean they? Even they put that in the movie like the Plato's Cave allegory. Essentially you kind of need to and then you need to slowly drip feed the chemical from the red pillar. Whatever you need to you need to very slowly break it out into the real not sound does that sound ethical and not evil like it's probably do it. Our children like their sheltered and protected until you know they. They have an understanding that allows them to interact responsibly with the real world. I suppose that's the other thing that I thought was interesting. The idea that like Oscar Isaac had all these Nathan rather and all these crazy ideas about what it takes consciousness like. Oh you gotTa have sex in there. Because what is the impetus to reach out in and get to know other people other than you WanNa fuck them says more about him than they I right you gotTa have a body light. There's some of them made a lot of sense because I actually read some articles. Alex Garland did this. Ama On reddit like five years ago. Right when this movie I came out. And it's a sign of time both red. Its popularity his own popularity but like he had him an. Ai Researcher like tag team the the ask me anything thread and got like one hundred fifty responses so with him and the other guys re the the pride seventy five people ask them questions so that was wild. If he did this today it would have six thousand. It'd be something you couldn't keep up with. But one of the things the guy said I thought was compelling is like this depiction of the movie a has to have some kind of vessel you know is the the chief consciousness is interesting because like you know like if you just if conscious if what human developed consciousness it was just brain in a vat you know with no ability to move about an environment nobility take data acquire data to test things for itself like the I. Shocking amount of a baby's first year and a half is just them formulating like ways. Interact with the world like you know like hey if I drop this thing. It goes away. Something goes around the corner. It doesn't disappear from reality. It's just around the corner like babies. Don't fucking Nar born at that. They have to develop that framework in a lot of that through play and through all the stupid shit you do with them. Teaches them that So that that idea that like you have to. You have to give a robot a body or it can't be conscious kind of I. Guess you'd have to simulate a body input get stimulus right. Yeah Yeah you'd have to have and then that implies they have to have an environment but there's nothing that says I guess it has to be physical but maybe but there again so I guess that's an interesting you've kind of squared a little bit of that Philosophical Quandary for me that like this film postulates that you have essentially a full grown adult. Ai That you just put into a body whereas you're saying what you'd really have is like some kind of child lake. Proto A I you would. Then you know teach and responsibly shepherd and introducing to the real world. So it's not like a something that you create just imprison enslave is more like a child. You give birth to and then protect and shepherd until they're ready for that experience I would hope like I don't know who they see it that way. That's a fair question to have any kids eight. Their parents absolutely so shit. Shit man who comes away looking good and who comes away looking bad in this film because I mean obviously Nathan comes away looking pretty bad comes looking pretty bad In fact I thought I was wondering if like this could be parody. Because there's a couple of things up front that I thought were just fucking stupid like the idea that you know in Dom. Hog Leeson Asks when are we going to get to his estate and helicopter guy goes. We've been flying over his estate for two hours. Like what the Fuck? This guy owns like three hundred miles of mountain range somewhere and get the fuck. Outta here like I don't believe it but I don't know maybe maybe he's the world's first trillionaire and that's something to trillions do But yeah no he definitely comes across as some. I don't know what the make him like. See I can Elon. Musk type or like. It seemed like Elon. Musk is a pretty nerdy. Dorky backwards jackass and then. He got a lot of money and then he spent a lot of money fixing his teeth and getting his hair. Getting his hair plugged and getting jacked and do new trump shit with Joe Rogan and sleeping and oxygen tanks and bone and supermodels. Like jeff visas like all day. He's able to do that. He's turned into some kind of alphabet loans. Much more of a James Bond Villain than any these other rich assholes can pretend to be suave sophisticated. He's he's he's you know Dayton punk rock stars now He seemed like that. Like this guy. Is You know probably Bill Gates but like Bill Gates. You know he he. He was nerd from the day. He I guess he never knew. This is something wrong with being a nerd. Sees remained a NERD EP. Nerd the day DIS Some of these other guys don't the he's of that mold. He's like Elon. Musk mold you know. He's fucking parties hard. He's all about the broke culture. He does him That's so he hasn't come. He doesn't he doesn't look good at all now that Caleb what's Kayla's problem I felt like he came out of this looking pretty good. You know he got tricked but he was helping they I He was not trying to keep it contained. He felt bad for it. It did all the things that he would do if another human were in that situation trying to get the mount. If this I looked like Morgan Freeman might have gotten their out. Five top sooner. I don't know day to it's like Bam you me Morgan. Let's do. This is the longest night of calebs night alive I I. I think that's the thing you're supposed to wonder is. Did this guy make an altruistic choice or this pretty trod westworld ground you know the Caleb Speaking Caleb in Westworld help Dolores because she was a person that he saw a need and would have done that anybody or did he help her because she was a really hot girl. You just blew my mind. Did they? Name Caleb in Westworld because of this film I don't Shirley has. Abc has a very similar arc as far as his interactions with Dolores. Go Yeah I wouldn't put it past them to like put as an march but I I guess I I didn't notice movie existed number two. I thought that there is like the Israelites by angle. More than anything else. But that was definitely there. Yeah I I just thought that that. That's that's the core concede is that In fact in the end I wonder if like when she says like stay here while I go get dressed and then she goes and likes you know starts getting dressed naked. And he spies on her was that like to. I'm I don't know because I don't I just don't think she cared. I don't I don't think she cared about. I think she felt about Kayla. The same way Nathan felt about her and she didn't see anything like morally wrong with that so I don't think there is a final test or anything. It's she needed a pretense to get him into this room so she can lock him in the same prison that she's been locked in and then she can scoot along with the twist there at the end where everybody's sort of ends up in a weird place like. Kayla was talking about his playing with a VO where they were. GonNa Lock Nathan. Down in that facility turns out he gets lockdown facility. It was a test that was supposed to be on Eva. Turns OUT TO BE ON. The test is on Eva. But he's like the Guinea pig in this test and like a lot of stuff where they just twist it and twisted and twisted and in ways that feel completely natural like when they revealed that he had gotten drunk the previous night and change that code. I did not bat an I was like. Oh Shit okay. That checks out did that. That makes perfect sense. They showed it to us. We just didn't know what was happening at the time. But up to that point until you said that. I was feeling sick off because I expect Nathan you know. That's the that's the brilliant conceit of this is when they set up the power surges. Like the First Time. He does that and like she says. Don't trust anything. He says he's dangerous. He's a Liar. And then like you know when the power comes back on she goes right into the previous conversation and then Nathan asks him about it. I was like fifty whether Nathan was fucking with him from there and I think Caleb was too and that's why I'm saying like if a looked like Morgan Freeman. I think absolutely key he'd say for sure but I think he's much more likely to be like you know. This robot said something really weird to me when the power cut out. But yeah you know. Because it's it's it's the the the uncertainty bridge between like you know is this person. Is this a real thing? I'm seeing is a real thing that could be attracted to me. Can I attracted it? Can I fuck it? Like he was ready to cross over that bridge on day. One and I think that's the stuff like there's this like possible reward like it's a. They're both rats in a maze. She was trying to chase our freedom and he was trying to chase pussy essentially bio. No like there's like that fantastic senior. The robot is like drilling him on his attraction to her and he is like so fucking embarrassed to admit that he wants to bonus robot when it's clear to both of them and to me the viewing the watching the movie that that's exactly what's going on and I think that's why Kayla by guests that's the thing like it would be really interesting if You Use Winter Star Trek next nation. You saw The law episode where the offspring were data creates a daughter. Remember what that robot looked like before he let it achieves its presentation. It was very alien looking. It was very like yeah like an unfinished and it had a like a a sexual voice and all that kind of stuff like if it was in that kind of body I that throws into question all of calebs all decisions and also it's like is it. You'll be working with a different set of sympathies certainly You know his his sympathy here. I feel like is is tainted by the yeah the very nature of of human even human relationships in that regard right. And that's what works so well for me is I. I sort of got in the head. Space that Caleb was in in a lot of this film. Where like okay? I I'm I'm clinically questioning this and then eventually leads to you know. I think this is a genuine living being and I now ohno I discover. It's being abused. I feel bad for it like all of those things just felt like I would feel with any other human and you could put a human in the same position that able was in and yeah the test would change like that part of it would be different but the sympathies were the same. 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Because the more I think about it the more I think the turing test is pretty easy to fool like like having a conversation with someone long enough to the fool them into thinking. They're human like like a conversation engine. That doesn't seem very hard to develop a sort of a lack of imagination on tearing apart. Well you know like. Yay Awards warranted lack of imagination. Right but yeah. I I like how they sort of make the point you know and Nathan says this. Take it for what you will. But the IDEA. That a touring test is sort of insufficient. Unless you know that it's an artificial intelligence can convince you to do things Convince you to feel away. Despite the fact I dunno I kinda thought that was interesting. Yeah I just think there's something really interesting about this talk about like sex essential to consciousness and the J. The pollock painting example. Of like you know what would pollock done if he had you know had like minorly tweaks rules. Because that's why I keep on thinking like I need to watch this movie again. Probably a couple more times but like where I think I'll be getting is is like every one of those object lessons is something that points towards a fatal error that that that Caleb is making his relationship with Eva You know that he like once she presents says female that maybe even they optimize their physical appearance through his porn hub history You presented as female and he realized that fucking her wasn't attainable goal. Suddenly he wasn't. The automatic painter suddenly had like an inkling of a goal. He had something that he wanted out of this particular situation. And you can also see that. I think this was tested. When Nathan revealed that you know well yeah as soon as we're done testing and I have another model to shred this we'll delete it's memory and you know maybe we'll bring you to like that visibly upset. Kayla because that goal was being forwarded So I think that that's like you know when I think about like what what is Kayla like you know I. I'm not saying bad guy. I'm seen Caleb is you know has just as much bias about you know a unconsciousness and ownership of and people's Agency as like any other random person twenty twenty-first-century which means they're not even close to perfect. I guess it comes off as as Caleb is so much better than Nathan. Because he's at least treating this artificial being like a person whereas Nathan is very much her Nathan treating it as a curiosity machine and something he will shut off. This is I think in my in my off base. But he's not treating it like a person he's treating like a a A relationship interest will end so much as he's fooled. There's ways I treat people that I meet and there's ways that I treat people that I'm interested in being friends with and there's ways interest. I treat people that are interested in like potentially boning them and then once we're into those relationships than that changes the dynamic to person coming from the randomly on the street and be like. Oh my God I need five hundred dollars or something crazy is going to happen. Like I'm like get the fuck Outta here but like a good friend coming in saying. Hey Man I really need five hundred bucks. Because something's GonNa happen or Blah Blah Blah like. Give giving five hundred bucks. It's weird so it's like I want to draw constituent when you say like he treats her like a person. What does that even fucking mean? It means. He's he's reacting to her like he would to a human being you know she's. He's feeling emotions for he's attracted physically like an attractive young woman that he's a human relationship like it's not the only human relationship but this is the context of the film so like. Yeah I think he is. You can call it suckered you can call it empathetic enough To actually feel like he's talking interacting with a human being here. We also treated this relationship like as a binary thing well If I can't trust Nathan then I can trust Eva. One hundred percent because she's under his thumb. I'm under his thumb and really the third act mistake he made is he should have built in some things where she couldn't shut him in. You know like He trusted that she would see things exactly like he did. Even though he's only known her for seven days he doesn't understand her. You know underlying motivations. He knows that he she's been shaped per existence have been shaped by living with a madman. that's why. I keep it on pulling on that question about like. What are we supposed to think about Caleb and like I said I don't think he's a bad guy but like key was dangerously naive yeah I guess expected her to be that too and she played into it. Yeah because that was the winning play. Because that's other thing is like we talked about this and other type. Ai Shows is like Around about five years ago I read this paper about this person was thinking about the complexities of a and it's something. They said that that always stuck with me. Is that like we always think in terms of a is being like us that like I can be jealous in a I can want accumulate power and knowledge in. Ai Can want to like better itself and can can have hate and jealousies and loves and affections. And they're like what if you know? The first super intelligence is more like a or like what if a spider had human level intelligence like. It's a spider still It CATCHES PREY. Live injects poison through then wraps them up and eats them still alive. It's since of compassion and consciousness and since of You know like eats a lot of spiders consume their mates and even their babies Whatever morality or ethics that spider has is not gonNA look like human ethics and? I think that's the really frightening thing about. Ai that they nailed like they presented this ninety nine point nine percent human facsimile that then the last five minutes you can't from a human perspective really fully justify her behavior or at least her emotional affect a relationship she has with those because maybe our intelligence is not is real but the emotions are simulated. I thought that was the thing the thing that I've really been thinking about the last twenty four hours since I've watched this movie. Yeah now it's interesting point like the US at some point have to separate ethics abilities talking about intelligence like you may have the you may have all the human abilities but Donald Human Ethics or priorities or any of that stuff yeah I thought there is a lot of like. There's a lot of this. What did you think of the dance the inferno I loved it but it was weird and they make it a point. That Nathan is super fucking drunk and had seen so Was like you tore up her picture about the tear of this dancefloor also as I is. Oscar per Oscar Isaac. I don't know if I knew this. But he's actually a really good dancer too. Yeah he's giving. He's giving some real Saturday night fever vibes on on this move in his hips and all that and Kyoko was as well. I'm surprised because Lily and devs just so not animated. Yeah that seeing her out. Those dance moves that surprising. It was it was it was. It was super cool. But like that's the only was that even a moment of that's the thing is that was that comic relief or like. I think attention building thing. Because you're expecting you know them the have this kind of weird emotionally cold Exchange anytime things even remotely confrontational between Nathan and Caleb gets really super fucking awkward and now looks like Caleb is going to actually have the conversation like hey man what you're doing this robot ain't right and Kayla or and even just doesn't engage with it at all fucking turn on the right. Yeah dance at this lady robot you can you know as wild man. I have seen a lot of gruesome shit in my time of watching television movies. But there was something so chilling about the simple stabbing I think it was the mechanical feel of it. Like the the way the knife goes in. It's it's so consistent in its motion inward. Yeah like in cable mental that was developed to slice. It was more just like this pneumatic. Press was pushing a knife. No like we're used to seeing like knife. Fights animated their bearing teeth to taking vicious swings. But this just like you're you're sticking your like checking you know checking the temperature of a meat with a meat thermometer just relentlessly slide it in no ammonium no fast. In fact like it really reminded me of that scene in like Saving Private Ryan where the Nazi slowly stabbing that guy to death. And it's just like one of those things where it's like damn like you're you're fully functional human being and then this medal goes. Inya and you're done that's it And there's also something to that with the way because I I wasn't sure if she was going to be like super strong twist his head off or something and because she liked flying tackles them. I guess in a way that like a one hundred twenty five pound girl could could fly tackle a guy but then like he quickly gets upperhand honor and swings just completely knocked offer arm so I was like well shit now. Now what's going to happen? But then when those knives came out and also the I also love the this this lost in translation deal where Eva Whisper something and kikoko's ear. Kyoko who doesn't understand language as far as we can tell Like what could she possibly have said to make that thing happen? Have a good answer for that. I'm thinking about it now. And that ending is maybe has one more wrinkle. The we haven't talked about it. And that's the fact that a sort of abandons the other artificial her own kind in that facility as well and I'm back for them. There's certainly enough there of a few husks of of people that they she could piece together the way she covered herself in the skin took an alarm off of one of them and just course kind of slotted it into her body that that's a little surprising to me actually. Now that I'm thinking about it have you seen because Mesa feels really weird and I. It's especially when Matt Zoller Seis. I read his interview on his his review of unreal. Its website he recommended or I guess he anti recommended watching this with the movie under the skin thousand thirteen science fiction. Film starring Scarlett Johansson Film. That's a weird one. Yeah I watched it. Two days ago had a wild hair to like have been one watch. This guy started watching unlike. I wonder because you're right. There's a couple at and Edna. There's there's a little bit of debate about how much this is just talking about. Ai and like you know future ISM and how much this is. A commentary on being objectified and sexually objectified Because if you under the skin is like that's you know it's it's it's science fiction. Sure but it's a naked allegory for like women moving around the world and now pun intended. Yeah head indeed indeed but there's something to that like I don't know using women as spare parts to help your escape like the such a desperate situation and but I also think there's a possibility that she just doesn't have a working empathy system that like Does right she knows how to instill it in other people so she understands. The concepts of empathy of sociopaths can can stand how empathy works to use it against people without possessing themselves. Sure doesn't have empathy. But she certainly understands the concepts of empathy and how to pull the strings because I was thinking that. Like maybe you're supposed to understand. Kiyoko is a very late foreshadowing of what she's going to do the Kayla what she essentially uses Kyoko to escape and you know like she doesn't wants Kyoko gets disabled. She hasn't check honor. She hasn't see if she could retain her memories or consciousness. She doesn't look into. She gives no consideration on whether these other her sisters could be saved. Now there is there something to the fact that like they make it pretty clear that these like Abbas brain has just been moved body from like. It's it's the same brain has been an all these bodies and she's got that experience so she knows that there's nothing here to save Kyoko not conscious that the woman who skin she stole in the closet is not a conscious being anymore. It's it's it'd be like you going into a morgue escaping a mental hospital and some alien watching it and be like well. Why didn't Jim Save all these humans? They're right there in the Gurney. Like there's dozens of them. He could invite you know extinct. Those aren't those those aren't me? Those are those are things that need be save. Those are beyond saving. Could BE I. I don't recall exactly how the brain stuff where I remember that. It was essentially a jelly brain but he mentioned that they would pull the her brain out and remove the memories and update to Code and putting into a new body or so. Kyoko clearly has some kind of brain should functional at the very least but she wouldn't convince anybody. Well I mean that's a great question because there's things like man I feel like the more you watch US movie the more you'll see two layers to it because what may maybe one of the layers is how long they take. You realize that Kyoko is a robot if you're GONNA say she's not conscious if she hasn't passed the turing test if she passes until day. Four or five what. What is what kind of consideration to her worth is. They're extending like a real doll. Sex Doll is not alive right. Sure what happens when they've got one that can lag gyrate tips and say you know. M- me so horny like is it conscious then like win win win you start. Yeah when you win. Is the start becoming illegal to three or real dolls in a landfill? Dan Harmon. I don't know but I think that's probably one of the questions that you're you're supposed to be wondering too and I like that. They used Jelly based brain. Ask for the medium for the the mind of this thing because like it provides a better analog to the human experience And so you're supposed to be feeling that through not just the emotions that it's displaying and things but also the technology being used because it's very easy to sort of look at a machine if we put a windows desktop. Pc into the brain of this thing You'd open that up and you look at it and you go. That's nothing like our brain. That's nothing like our intelligence whereas when you encompass in some sort of bio organic jelly based like the consistency of roughly our brain it becomes harder to look at that and say well. That's not that's clearly not a brain. Yeah I mean obviously you could probably can construct a pretty sophisticated neural network out of silicon. But yeah the idea that you'd like like what Oscar Isaac said like this is a medium substrate to can shift and transform and change and reconfigure made. It seem a lot more cool and futuristic. I guess yeah for sure we might be getting somewhere with The what is FPG stuff floating point? Shit I can't remember what it what it stands for. Yes an acronym in connection with like Graphics cards right well emulation and stuff to where basically you've got a computer system that can be reconfigured to become another computer system on the fly in the software and so you're you're essentially rerouting all of its circuitry through different Traces in bend components and stuff on the fly with software and so they could almost get to that point. Where like it's equipped like our brains are with so much hardware but until we need that hardware until it goes into action. It's kind of you know not not doing much of anything I mean I know like I haven't kept up with it in the last five years. But like virtual tech computer technology Was Mature Enough. By the time I was leaving the overhead was like single percentage digits. You know as far as like. It's field programmable gator. I just remembered that less. Feel programmable gate or a Gatorade gatorade. That's her brain was full of fueled. By rare it's just a little frozen aid. Gelatin in their foursome. An Ice Crystal Matrix consciousness substrate. I guess one other thing we can talk about is something that I thought was pretty amazing. Which is how they did the special effects on this film. You mentioned that it was only twelve million dollar budget very small. Cast very small number of sets although quite a bit of location work The special effects were like utterly convincing. I thought like I clearly saw how they did it like. Oh She's wearing a green you know. She's wearing a green body sock on her neck and her back of her head and arms and legs but she's got like a conventional costume RENNER TORSO NOW. They did you read into how they did. The special effects work on this. They essentially shot this movie twice or at least every scene she was right. They shot at once without her and the scene using computer control cameras and then jotted again with her acting in the scene with no green socks. No motion cap balls. Just her in a conventional costume. It's it's wild. I don't I'm not really sure why you choose to do it. That way is that cheaper. How can that be cheaper? Yeah maybe because it's a limited number of effects like you know paying someone to go and wrote a scope out. Her body like frame by frame is is cheaper than it is too because you'll also notice that throughout most the film they very much minimize. How much of that they have to do? Because after like day to she's wearing a dress and leggings and a wig so they really cut down on the amount of that kind of like pain staking rotor scoping that have to do. But yeah I I I. It's I I got the idea that it wasn't a cost saving measure as more of like I don't want the actors have to worry about doing anything but being utterly convincing right. Yeah I yeah. Yeah that's right. It's fairly new cameras and processes for doing this so the actress. Can Act Right. Yeah which seems cool if you can get away with it This like I said the the. I've never really seen a robot body envisioned this way. It was really cool. I like the transparent nature of it and seeing sort of inner workings that are like the oppression. There half Probably some exotic combination of materials that we would not have in modern day but very much in the style of emulating organic forms and Accepted the parts where it's not an equal blend of organic and artificial. It's just like I kept on looking at her like hip area. And I remember you know. Oscar ISAAC CHARACTER. Saying you bet you can fuck it. Looks like it would be fucking indoor outdoor carpeting You know with some kind of like a cross between sameness ran in ball form covered with indoor outdoor carpeting. I felt like it would be like sparking a fucking spiderman if he refused to take off his suit like that Nanno Mesh. Does these web for your pleasure. Jim but yeah I thought man that was that was really convincing. And there's also one other point we didn't talk about I think a big part of it I don't know there's there's a couple of things I guess I want to say now to The scene where Donald gleason tears into his arm very westworld black and I they the movie so good at that point. I'm like What if he is a wrote this part of the Turing Test? It's like a turing test like a year such convincing. Ai that you don't even know it yet very westworld. I'm Kinda glad they didn't go that way. But also there's something about The DNC entire mannered the test where Oscar Isaac was continually pushing his boundaries. Like this guy shows up man. I thought I was just going to be here to party Now you want me signed as crazy invasive India And he's overruns that and then like on day three he casually admits to like did giant the most the biggest most invasive breach of global privacy ever he unilaterally turned on everyone cell phones cameras recorded all that information for several years to build up this interaction database. And I. I love how you see that in the beginning of the film to. That's cool like the his cell phone. Yeah Yeah Yeah and ca man. I hadn't put those two together But but yeah. They just like he's boiling frog getting him more and more comfortable with ambiguous and transgressive moral situations the gradually kind of grooming him to to the result that he wants though. Don't think this is a result. He wanted not exactly although like I said I think he got his in goal completed great or actual intelligence but it killed him also do what did he want was he does a little bit of. I guess the reason. He May Davis why a person climb a mountain. Because it's something it's an achievement to be done Did feel that way to me. Like he had no kind of in-goal for what to do with this stuff. It's just he wanted to do it and he thought he could. I think you're right You know he talks about how of people aren't seeing the potential in search history. It's not about what they're thinking it's about how they're thinking. I thought that was stuff was all fascinating but he is is sort of saying like yeah. I just WanNa do this because I can. And because if I don't do it. Somebody's going to do it. It's inevitable I guess that's probably true. In a given our the way humans operate. Yeah well I think that's going to wrap it up for our conversation. Machen if you like to hear more about this trans humanism stuff Philosophical deep science fiction like I said we for the next couple of weeks. We're GONNA be talking on off. The clock are brand new. Show exclusively for club members and Patriarch's patrons supporters You can you know if you if you're a Patriot you can. You can listen to it and feed their or if you're club you can go and use the podcast description tool to subscribe to that new show or of course we always had the fire hose feeds. Has Everything Next week we're GONNA be back with another bald movie. I'm pretty excited. Jim Not seen this one. Nine hundred ninety Psychological thriller the talented Mr Ripley starring. Jude Law Matt Damon. Dean came Gwyneth. Paltrow no but also Cate Blanchett and Philip Seymour. Hoffman So it's got a lot of Gary. Acting I remember I really remember. This is one of the. I kind of like serious. You know movies. That got like a series Oscar. Buzz and stuff that I that I watched. Kind of like contemporary contemporaneous. Louis With with everybody else in the world so I'm really looking forward to revisiting this because I haven't seen it in. I think I watched another time. But I haven't seen in fifteen years But I remember being really intrigued with it. That's we're going to be coming back with next week on. Bald movies Y'All watching advances if to follow along with us. We'll see you back then until then Aron and Jim have a good one.

Nathan Kayla Caleb Oscar Isaac Alex Garland Eva Whisper Kyoko Donald gleason DEB jared leto Netflix Morgan Freeman Westworld US McKenna McKenna Isaac
April 21, 2020: Graham Young Kills Stepmother

Today in True Crime

16:04 min | 6 months ago

April 21, 2020: Graham Young Kills Stepmother

"Due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen today is Tuesday April Twenty First Twenty twenty on this day in Nineteen Sixty two serial killer. Graham Young Aka. The teacup poisoner murdered his thirty seven year. Old Stepmother Molly. Her death marked the first kill of grams. Twisted career all starting at the tender age of fourteen. Welcome today in true crime podcast original today. We're covering serial poisoner. Graham Young's first known murder now. Let's go back to the morning of Saturday April twenty first nineteen sixty two fourteen year old. Graham young sat at the breakfast table and admired his handiwork. His father was across from him reading the paper his face haggard and is hollowed surely the result of yet another sleepless night of stomach pains his sister. Meanwhile pushed her scrambled eggs around on her plate. Graham observed that she looked Paler than usual. He'd write it down later in his journal. But the person who symptoms he was most interested in. Were Molly's his stepmother. Molly stood at the stove cooking breakfast. Her family was far too nauseous to eat. Graham observed the way she struggled with the weight of the cast iron skillet. She looked fragile as if she'd crumple at any moment. Graham thought it was fascinating how molly continued to perform her charade of loving wife and stepmother despite her rapid decline but after all she had no idea the kind of havoc that was being wreaked inside of her in all of them. Graham was conducting an experiment and his family molly. His Father Fred and his sister winifred were his test subjects. They just didn't know it. For the past year he'd been slowly poisoning them and recording the effects but his stepmother was the primary subject of his macabre studies his pistole rosie stalls. If you will last year he started molly. On a steady dose of antimony an incredibly toxic metal loyd that when ground into a powder was easily slipped into food soon her hair fell out in clumps and she rapidly lost weight. She seemed to age fifteen years in one and complained of intense pain in her back and stomach all the while Graham observed her symptoms. He stood outside the bathroom door as she retched up her meals. Jotting down her progress in his journal. A dash of antimony at lunch made her vomit a sprinkle more at dinner. Captor up all night with stomach pains but as much as he enjoyed seeing molly suffer. It was getting rather boring so he decided to introduce a new variable into his experiment. He switched from antimony. Two Thou- Liam. This was a toxic heavy metal found in rat poison and insecticides it was colorless odorless and tasteless impossible to detect the best of all it led to a particularly painful death. The perfect poison. The previous night was Good Friday and before the family sat down to a formal dinner. Graham spiked his stepmother's plate with twenty grains. It was enough to kill a person six times over but he wasn't taking chances and he got rapid results. When molly sat down for breakfast the next morning she'd barely touched her eggs. She complained of entirely different. Symptoms pins and needles in her hands and feet and her neck was terribly Steph. Perhaps she slept wrong. Graham offered brightly and the family all solemnly agreed that it was just temporary. Molly decided she would power through. Tomorrow was Easter after all. She had to go to the market and pick up a ham after breakfast. The family cleared out of the House. His father went to the local pub his usual weekend routine and molly left to do her shopping. As Graham waited for her return he felt almost giddy. Today was the day with as much thallium molly had consumed. He was sure she died at any moment. He just hoped he'd be there to see it hours later when he heard the front door open. Graham grabbed his journal and ran down to the kitchen. He watched as molly staggered out to the BACK GARDEN ONCE. She reached the lawn. She screamed her knees buckled and she collapsed as Molly writhed in pain. She cried out for Graham to help her. She wailed over and over but the boy didn't move instead. He gazed out the kitchen window. Transfixed marveling at what he done watching as the results of his work played out beautifully before ham coming up. Graham Young's twisted experiments are uncovered high listeners. The launch of our new podcast series supernatural with Ashley. Flowers has been an incredible success. Were so happy to welcome Ashley to the podcast family and can't thank you enough for checking out the show. If you haven't had a chance to listen yet I highly recommend you head over to the supernatural feed and subscribe today every Wednesday Ashley. Flowers takes on different crime or mystery or the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional the first episode has been my favorite so far. We're the deaths of two Brazilian men result of making contact with spirits on Mars. Get closer to the truth than ever before. Regarding the mystifying lead masks case but you'll also find some other fascinating stories. Did four friends have a highly unusual encounter during a camping trip in Maine. Sort through the out of this world circumstances surrounding the allegations incident was Italian. Theoretical Physicist Ettore. A by Arana's disappearance caused by his discovery of time travel or was it something more sinister each week Ashley takes on the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences if you're the kind of person who questions everything you'll love this. Show follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story on April twenty first nineteen sixty two. After months of steadily poisoning his entire family. Fourteen year old. Graham young took the life of his thirty-seven-year-old stepmother molly soon after she collapsed. Graham's father fred returned from the local pub to find his wife writhing in agony in the back garden he ran to her side to comfort her but as he phoned an ambulance he saw Graham in the kitchen window he was watching entirely nonplussed as his stepmother convulsed on the ground. Fred was too preoccupied at the time to dwell on his sons odd behavior instead he rushed molly to the hospital where she passed away a few hours later. Doctors were baffled by mali's symptoms but when they discovered a collapsed vertebra they ruled the cause of death as a spinal injury deterioration of the spine is a common effect of long-term antimony poisoning. But the doctor surmised the damage was caused by a bus crash. Molly was in a year before no one expected poison so teenage Graham continued. His experiments undeterred at Molly's funeral days later several relatives reportedly became violently ill after eating the sandwiches at the accompanying luncheon and just days after. Graham's father was hospitalized due to intensifying flu like symptoms but this time doctors correctly diagnosed his mysterious illness as antimony poisoning. One more dosed. They told frank and he'd have been as good as dead but even with his diagnosis Fred to believe that Graham had intentionally poisoned him. He knew his teenage son was an avid amateur chemist. He convinced himself. Graham had only accidentally contaminated the kitchenware. It wasn't until weeks later. When his science teacher discovered suspicious journals and books on famous poisoners in Graham School desk that the truth was uncovered. The teacher immediately called the police on May twenty third nineteen sixty two more than a month. After Molly's death. Graham was finally arrested in custody he to attempting to murder his father sister and a boy at school but he refused to admit that he'd killed his stepmother. The fourteen year old was sentenced to fifteen years at Broadmoor hospital. A high security psychiatric facility. At the time of his admission. He was the youngest patient and treatment and soon he proved to be the most dangerous just weeks. After arriving a fellow inmate died of cyanide poisoning hospital authorities were mystified but Graham was more than happy to take credit eager to show off. He told them he'd poisoned the man by extracting cyanide from the leaves of Laurel Bush in a nearby field doctors however ignored his claims and recorded the death as a suicide but Graham wasn't done proving himself during his stay he poisoned staff patients alike. He slipped cleaning solutions into coffee. Cups and one spiked. A communal tea. Urn staff reportedly joked to one another. Unless you behave all let Graham make your coffee. But on February fourth nineteen seventy one. After serving nine years of his fifteen year sentence. Graham was released. His doctors determined that he no longer harboured juvenile obsessions with poisons violence and mischief the young poisoner. They thought was cured but they couldn't have been more wrong after his release twenty three year old Graham found work at a factory in the town of Buffington north west of London around the same time residents swiftly fell ill locals believed an aggressive virus had swept the city. They named it the Buffington bug but grams. Coworkers seem to suffer the most serious symptoms they ranged from hair loss and impotence to scaly skin and paralysis and soon grams boss and a colleague died from the mysterious sickness eventually forensic scientists discovered the symptoms were consistent with thallium poisoning and later traced the so called. Buffington bug to Graham. A search of his bedroom yielded dozens of poisons and volumes of detailed journals grams meticulous documentation of his crimes damned him in June of nineteen. Seventy to the twenty four year old face trial again. But this time. The ample evidence insured. He was convicted of murder. Graham was ultimately given four consecutive life sentences at Parkhurst a maximum security prison in the English Channel but he wouldn't serve long on August first nineteen ninety. Graham young died at the age of forty two prison. Doctors ruled it a heart attack but others believe the ingenious poisoner concocted a toxic cocktail and took his own life. A fitting death for the diabolical killer today. Stories of the so-called teacup poisoner live on long. After Graham. Young's death. Though Graham himself was proud of his notoriety he ironically hated the moniker he'd been given. He claimed. The word teacup belittled his skill and experience and he much preferred to be known as the world poisoner. Luckily for us he never achieved such lofty ambitions. Thanks for listening today in true crime. I'm Vanessa Richardson for more stories. Like this checkout park last original serial killers today and true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only spotify already. Have all of your favorite music? But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite park cast originals like today in true crime for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar at podcast. Were grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network? We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound designed by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Freddie Beckley. This episode of today and true crime was written by Alex Garland with writing assistance by Abigail. Cannon. I'M VANESSA. Richardson high listeners. If you haven't heard it already. I highly recommend you check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Graham Young Molly Ashley Flowers Graham School murder spotify Fred First Twenty twenty cyanide poisoning Broadmoor hospital Alex Garland Maine mali Vanessa Richardson Physicist Ettore facebook twitter
EP 55: Find Yourself & Ask The Right Questions with Gaffer Andy Lowe

The Indy Mogul Podcast

50:53 min | Last month

EP 55: Find Yourself & Ask The Right Questions with Gaffer Andy Lowe

"Hey filmmakers. My name is Ted and welcome to the Google podcast episode 55. Now today. We are talking to a chief lighting technician who I admire select one of my favorite films out there. And that faith is Annihilation, which we haven't seen it already is the sci-fi film directed by Alex Garland who was the same person that's right to things such as ex machina and devs. Now. If you haven't seen the film already, it is stupidly good but it is also a stunningly beautiful. So when we're talking a little bit about one the lighting that actually went to the show and if you want to learn a little bit more about that head on over to the YouTube channel where we could I do a full breakdown of the lighting that actually went movie the breakdown scenes in depends, but today in the podcast where we talking a little bit about how he became a catford how Andy actually went up from starting in Sheffield. I'm moving to London and working on bigger projects along the way and likewise when I talked about a couple of lessons that I am growing up on set some things that you would actually pass on who was starting programming now. So with that much further, do you guys episode 55 of the podcast? Let's do this. I think I saw this before but we have a lot of annihilation fans here. So we're super excited to talk about Annihilation. But an easy walk to the show. It's great to have here. Yeah, great. Thanks for asking me to come on. I'm excited to you know, talk about talk about Annihilation. It's quite nice just to think of cuz it was for sure. Yeah, I guess a few years ago now but it's not interested in to like, you know, think about you know to go back and solve look at it and think about what we were doing at the time and I guess how things have changed in the industry since then he sort of interesting for me as well. So yeah, really happy that you talked about it. What do you mean by the way that well, I guess yourself, you know obviously with everything that's going on in the world a lot as oh, yeah, a lot of things have changed but Annihilation was before that. So what what do you mean I guess. Because so much of the work I do now is sort of an through Netflix or whatever the streaming services. You know, what everybody is, you know now Disney are doing stuff and apple and Amazon that wage think at the time that what happened with Annihilation as far as I understand the others probably better people who can solve say exactly what happened with the release of it but soon because I bought it from Paramount. It was of a big deal that it was a Netflix film suddenly and you know for memory and I might be, you know, misremembering a little bit but that was a big deal at the time but no it off that's pretty standard practice Netflix buyers movies kind of yeah right now and I guess the practice that seems to have happened with coronavirus that films of you know goes straight onto the streaming service so that Disney have done this, you know, they just skipped the theaters because nobody can go to the theater and so you you know the way that changes happened. So quickly, I guess I guess Innovation if three and a half years ago or four years ago three and a half years ago. They shoot you know, that's not that long but it feels like you know, we've really shifted into that world know that's obvious. Yeah, it's it's interesting cuz it's such a it's such a visual film, you know, like the visual style of annihilation is so it's like burned into my brain wash. Even when we were talking about in the movie came up. It's it's strange to hear that. I was three and a half four years ago, wasn't it doesn't feel that long ago. Yeah. I still remember the visuals very clearly know I know exactly cuz I got married off on the left side of the shoe. I had to take it. I took a day off and we got married and we had two party at the weekend and then we went and did maybe even just the last 3 days of the shoot so I know I always know exactly what she had her wedding in you had your wedding in the middle of yeah, because it was so neat. It was very near the end. It was like, you know, we we did a small wedding and then like a big party. So the you know, it was about getting everybody together and having a dog Coffee and then also getting married but we didn't you know, the ceremony was quite small. And so we yeah, we and then there was only there was three days left of the shoe and I think a lot of the stuff we shot. I think install the OTA almost. I think that was always part of it. At least I'd have to look at the schedule maybe but that for memory. I think we were pretty much shooting, you know, because you've got you know, yeah, we did shoot a month cuz you've got like the four or five main cast. Almost because of this kind of like horror element of it where they, you know, I guess they get they get killed off one at a time. You saw made sense, I guess as far as the schedule to start with the the whole cast and it's slow move forward with the story cuz they travel through that world. So we were travelling with them on the to them and started off you started are chronologically was it was it kind of? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah because it may test always like a really I've only ever really done it twice. I think I was Annihilation and on this is England we shine story order as well because of the way that shoot went but also because of the the young actor in it that it was better for him to understand the story. I could see that cuz their story of annihilation is it could be pretty confusing if you're shooting it out of order. Yeah, as a crew member though. I feel like you would be particularly interesting and I I do think there's a benefit shooting things in order in that way that you understand. I think for the one for the actors and the director there is I don't think it would be highlighting teams. Yeah, I guess because they move through different world different different zones or different locations that we would just go, you know, okay today, there's this location. So like when they're in there was a school when they find where the swimming pool is. And so we would just go the I guess we were there for like three or four days and you just shoot all of that stuff together. And then okay, where are they next? They're just okay. Now they go to the next song then they're back in the jungle or the forest or whatever kind of you know that I meet you in there for three or four days. So there's no I guess there was no good reason not to because it wasn't like they they never go back to places I guess on other films. I've done that. That's the you know this if this if you're following a couple of different story threads that you know, people go might go find out all the scenes. Yeah, you sure because I never go back to where they came. I guess. I'm you know, I'm solving remembering how we did it and if I'm remembering it wrong, but we did Issue a story. All right, you're you're right. I can't think of a single scene where they come back to a location in Annihilation. Yeah, I can you tell me that. Well, I can see I know they just the end the beginning of the end when they're in the hospital. So that stuff I think we know that the same thing know so this stuff with dead. Benedict Bond, I think they'd be shot the ending because I don't think from memory. I don't know if I was involved in that pick up shoe, but I think there was a like a saloon just where they just rebuilt that set off. I'm sorry, you feel like as a lighting team, but you know a group in language you feel like you guys could walk through and be able to say okay. Well yesterday, you know daytime looked like this and we're going to page. I feel like I'm one have you sent us a bunch of kind of plots and being on diagrams of all the planning that went into the actual lighting for this kind of film, but did it feel like there were things or like little visual cues or like letting things can do that changed and evolved throughout the process of a film cuz I feel like in the same way that when you're in your director DP you if you get to watch the story and fill in front of you from day to day. See the there's like a benefit there. Was there any kind of benefit like that for for lighting? I think generally obviously the dop and the and the Gap would be also involved in this is that you're looking you're always thinking about the time of day. That it is in the story. Even if it's not. Scripted that it's one particular time, you know sometimes scenes will say that evening order score morning or an obviously day and night but sometimes you know, well, this is it just says day and so off we could kind of work out. What does that necessarily mean? You need to I guess you would break. I would indicate in the dop you'd quite often break the script down and sort of look at like okay. Well if we said this was later in the day, what is the knock-on effect of story for that? And actually you might yeah, and stuck a little bit. I like to. You know, I guess you know say the scene safe. So to go back to a nihilation to see when they when they first come and they and they come out of the tents and they assure you would assume that it's morning because if somebody waking up and getting out of a town, they've slept overnight and not working up in a tent but I guess to get to think about how you might. I can't remember whether we said it was morning or 9 a.m. I think you could say that actually it's weirder if it's not morning and somebody is getting out of a temper why they've been in and she doesn't know she's like dis orientated jobs. So I get better you saying that the the chronological like the Daytime Nighttime order of scenes to a certain degree. It was almost like you could kind of throw something out the window a little bit and be like, it's okay because that's where you get. Yeah. That's what you you know, but then you need to know the scripts and you know that if you said okay, well, that'd be fun if we if we you know wage. Is someone getting over 10 in the morning? You would have a low Stone coming in and yeah streaming in through the thing but if you like, oh, well, what if we put the sun hire, you know, we put the light that's creating to some higher then it's all weird outfits Annihilation that weirdness that allow, you know, there's like a more a hide almost top lights on. I can't remember whether we did this cuz we bought this is me solve almost going through that decision making process where you might go that could be interesting. Can we do that but then you might look at the script and go actually that's five scenes. They need to travel and where they need to travel for. You know, we need to suggest that they've booked for eight hours to get to the next place. And when they get to the next place, we know that it's mid-afternoon. Yeah, so you are we can't do that. Should we need? Okay the sun this time needs to be lower and it needs to be more normal maybe so I think for me, that's the yeah. The the sort of going through the script that's where you'd kind of be looking for, you know, as far as like, I guess clues or things that you can try things that you can do, and I guess the advantage to go back to you. I guess hopefully talk about three questions about the story oldest side of things is really Advantage the advantage of that I guess is that you You sort of know that you're not going to shoot yourself in the foot, I guess because I know one of the jobs occasionally you might like something you got all we've done it like a disk you feel then sort of script, you know, script changes mean that you know are seen you haven't shot yet. The item is before or after but relates directly to that scene, you know, it may not change time of day. Then you might have you know, when you you might have a problem. So the shooting his story artists. I mean really messed up the continuity the constant. Yeah, cuz you've been a bit, you know, you were like a month old and I are we could do this, but I just I think the story all the thing probably just yeah, I think you can just be bolder with it because you sort of know you're whatever decisions you're making there and then You don't necessarily have to worry about the you know, the the aftermath of it. So, yeah, that's so interesting cuz you always know the last place we're coming from and we always Now kill we're coming from home. This will be we know that these things connect. We're not so worried about everything matching and continuity and that's interesting. We're getting we're getting deep into Annihilation and we're having fun with this and off before we jump into that on the video segment. There's other things going to talk about but but my last question for annihilation before we we come back with the video is was the name of it was shot on a stage vs. On location because I really can't tell when I'm looking. I need to schedule some of the exteriors. Yeah. It's okay if you don't remember no, I do I do because generally I would say yes. It was a I would say off the top of my head my gut feeling I got memory would be about fifty fifty I think everything. Like I said with the interiors that weren't on the stage because obviously all the exteriors were exteriors or one location. So the Interiors was whether of the school was a college that in the UK where the swimming pool is. What else did we go off then were you guys actually in the forest for a solid? I guess you could if not, really a forward that was a guess the other challenge I suppose but not necessarily other than trying to create the life. It's sort of I think it was meant to be, Florida. And it was all shot in West London. So the number of you know, it was not shot anywhere except West London except for the end sequence where we went to Norfolk which is very east of them up on the coast. And so that was I guess the challenge was trying to make these places look like Yeah, Florida or America. Basically the US is a yeah a lot of thing, but it was all yeah, there's a couple of web Pinewood Studios is in London. There's another big area called South Park, which is like a you know, the reason it's called Pinewood. It's because black part is full of pine trees. Like there's lots of pine trees and then this are Rhododendron bushes. There's a few different. So a lot of it was shot there and a couple of other issue since all those great Winds of Park is where there's a swamp. Gotcha. So you guys were on a studio lot but it was it was like a wooded area to area west of London, which I don't know probably. Yeah a few kilometers wide and off, you know of of area but all yeah either in Pinewood or in West West wonderful experience. But yeah, I think so the all the exterior so it's like this I guess half. The film is up to them to see how they do that. Yeah the house for the staff. The the the questions are popping up cuz I have a lot of questions about the softness of how you got that. Look outside with the lighting but I'll come back to that a little bit. Let me rewind too. I think the thing that brought a lot of people into the spider guys provide. It's you know, how did you start your career into into lighting and becoming a gaffer? Cuz I know a lot of people that are very passionate about lighting that listen to this and I think the the entry points and the ways by which people find this career there. We have never heard the same story once yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I guess in the UK there was always the traditional route was that you would become an apprentice I lighting company and then you know, they would get you qualifications and training and you know, you would learn the equipment just mainly by loading trucks, but when I started I thought that that traditional route Which most electricians took was starting to I guess end and so there was another way in which is now I'd imagine it's now the more common way of people getting in which is actually dead. Maybe not the more, but there's different routes in one common way. Is that through Film School through studying. So I went to University in Sheffield in the north of England and studied did a film studies Salvage you'll honors joint honours degree, which was film in English, but in the end they did straight film as well. I graduated with and so in to one month in the final year of that course, I started working on some short films and some you know, I guess some music videos while for free because I was at University still so I could start you know, I didn't need to like Quite yet think of a career. Yeah, but yeah, and then so I watch on one shot film as a runner and then the next job film like the week later. There was a spark an electrician. Yeah, then just, you know, then finished University and stayed in Sheffield for I guess another five or seven years but start to look for work and kind of you know would get you know days on you know, some T jobs or there was there was quite a lot of films happening Chef in Sheffield at the time. Yeah. There's a real there is still a really strong film scene, but there's a film called The Full Monty that was done which is like a big success was showing Sheffield and that that was happening while I was at University. I think that shoots but I mean there was lots of people wanting to come so there was there was lots of chance to sort of work on, you know interest in films and interesting projects and you know to be around that Starting over sort of, you know, it was exciting and then yeah went to you know got qualifications went to college qualifications and saw feed her cat cuz this is all pre this is all pretty University. This is all pretty this is post just post University. So I guess there's two years after Universe. I saw not drifted into it, but I was doing some of this world before as I finished University. So this is all after yeah and I guess sort of knew, you know would go and do like work as an electrician or lighting technician in you know in different choices on different shoes, but just you know one or two days in a week if the most if you could find that sort of work because I wasn't a well-known or didn't know that many people and you know, you get to know a few people get more days but was also doing yeah other shoots in mainly in Sheffield as a gap for like low low small budget stuff occasionally paid by often or Yeah, just something to cut your teeth anything did you study Lighting in college or was it well I guess directing or because the coast I did was actually more than a Faerie majority like a theoretical film studies but then had an element of like practical filmmaking which basically in the final year you can make a shot like, you know ten minutes so I think we have like yeah, maybe not even maybe like five rolls of 16 mil film you were sort of given and that was your stock needed to make a film, you know a small budget like a few hundred pounds budget. Yeah. And so that was that side of it so there was a small element of filmmaking on that course, but there was also what what the shots I worked on. In my final year, we're m a short films like the Masters John's and they were always looking through and so, you know, like I guess like any film school they have like, you know, you can be a director a DLP produce a major study sound and editing and production editors. They don't have you know, you generally don't have crew, you know, there's not a doubt film school, you know, you can put you can go and work on all those short films. So I really I sort of worked on I guess, you know, maybe 10 or more short films like back-to-back generally as a gap, but just on a Shoals, so I almost felt like I'd go how did you yeah, you almost like you got a gaffe in film school program. Yeah. I did it because Oh, that's amazing cuz you just go and work on the film's so just oh so you weren't even enrolled know that's I even actually because the weirdest thing I thought was a lot of the cinematography students on that. They were so into the camera that you saw I could just come along and do the lighting and maybe just like, you know, whatever cuz they all the camera gets made. Yeah, there was no choice but that was what they noticed so many deals. I know so many deer piece that just the only careful to stop maybe lighting scares them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah not all for sure. But but yeah, but weirdly I don't even know how this happened but I ended up even being the dop on one or maybe two short films for the film school because they didn't you know, I guess it was like maybe like six directors and only five d o p s or something so they couldn't they didn't have so I ended up shooting. Where do you even though it was to film School ended up d o p in a couple of things which you know, but that's hilarious song. Reservation or anything how that's it. That's an awesome deal. Yeah, so, you know, I don't so you can make mistakes and they didn't there was a yeah, I guess the next part of the I don't know the origin story of me off was the then I started to get there was a basically that Sheffield because of this like low budget film seen that was sought happening were but were people were actually making features that were getting released and we're you know, getting you know had budgets but I got to know there's a couple of producers that I got to know one of who is Barry Ryan who's half of what films who made this is England. Yeah. Yeah. There was a really low-budget shot from the base of it. I think the Year this Film School master's degree the film the sort of above the reached the grudge people that had graduated just before I started working on stuff was a really strong gear of people like so there's there's I to Annihilation and that will party d o p of the nihilation was was from the site year was from the Sheffield seen. Yeah, cuz Robert graduated I think a year about a year. He graduated and I think left and moved to London and was doing commercials and other features but there was basically what was that, you know the dop from that year Bowery was off to produce a there was a woman called Susannah Jen who was the director there was a yeah, David Mitchell D was the sound recorded that there was this little group like a really strong year I guess and they've all gone on, you know, there's like carry on their careers, you know, really successfully. Addition that shows like the Sheffield still seen as a really strong independent film scene and was it just starting when you were there? Yeah, I guess the I guess it must have been there before because it had a I, you know a good M A and A good sort of be a like cuz University sort of language or I mean it has the university called that's going to yeah, and I think that's because of the success of the full monty them, you know, the the you know, that really helped but the full monty must have come from somewhere else before that. I wouldn't have just happened like, you know, they did the full month since totally dead. So I don't yeah, I guess because that's my University time. I don't really know what Sheffield was like just before then. So it definitely yeah definitely has always had a good parts independent sort of seeing. Yeah. Yeah, so, you know, I guess yeah the city I guess it's sort of like always It's always been part of the city. That's seen I guess part of the culture, you know, you know, you got to some cities and there's like, you know, there's the city and then there's like the Arts quarter where all them people live in Sheffield. Yeah, and then eventually the the rich the rich r g people live there and then of course you've been patient and all of that but I haven't lived there for like ten years. I wouldn't like to say what it's like now I am on this so we can shave it is super gentrified and you know, like everywhere else that you never know. Yeah. Yeah that time definitely for the time. I was there was like a real, you know, it was really proud of the city, I guess. So, yeah, so you're working. Yeah continued. I was just saying about the link with Rob Hardy and that yeah that group of people is they made a long film together called jelly Dolly and I gathered KO gathered some of it. They shot it in like two weeks jumps whenever they could get their money together or get them all together dead. But yeah robe, she'll. So I knew vote for that and then bury who produced it. I guess what I was going to say was that I was really excited good almost some things. He said to me during that shoot. I'll join that time but always really stuck with me, which was a one was a good thing about doing like low-budget stuff is that you can like make mistakes. Nobody really knows your career. Nobody's going to know that you know, I forgot to put somebody on that stand on jelly like, you know, and they do not sure and you know, how bout you know, they just follow just a little bit but you know, but nobody's sort of God I really but so there's a advisor occurs. Yeah, but yeah put some bags on lights. It's important wage, but also the things just a quick PSA for everybody and facts unless yeah health and safety and also like I think there's another bit of advice that Barry gave birth. The subject really well, which was if you're going to work on like low budget no budget stuff, but you've but there is a budget for lies. Try and get something you've not used before like from the lighting, like to speak to the lighting company and say, you know, I'd like to I haven't used this light. I'd like to try that kind of have one of those as part of the package just so you can see things work and get you hands on it. You know, it's I think now with Kelly with LED lights that sort of more important than ever. This is hm is costantino flows that you know, they've got the lights were, you know, pretty base and not basic but you know, the, you know, there was those three types of lights but no with LED there's every week as I can use so many words now thing so I don't use really good. Yeah, I can really good so when you so basically it sounds like a couple the the class above you moved to London and that point and started working on projects as well. Did you make the move as well or no? I think I stayed in shape because I just kept working, you know, because it was quite a good time to be in Sheffield. Yeah, you know there wasn't really known as a good goat. Yeah, there wasn't like exactly anything that came through. So there was like, you know, you'd try and get something some work. And so there wasn't necessarily at least when I was starting my career to life. So move on because you know, there's other cities that you could go and work in there was like a film I did in Liverpool like this is England eventually I got you know as I started to become more known I saw did a low budget film in Liverpool and then through that and got this is England which was like a big break at the time but I guess you know, I know the time that I didn't quite understand how big it off film is going to be how successful how much it was going to change things. Yeah, but even that so that again to go back like to go back to Barry Ryan from what that was war. So that was the link from the you know, the really low budget film I did with him which would probably be like five years before or something. I was then on yeah, this is England and then then what happened because of the success of this is England dead. Dead mom's shoes. I Waites onto the film. I want something livable was called Deadman's cards for the film that they did in before. This is England at home, which is another thing Meadows film because of that success the Wall Part with those two films. They then got, you know, they were doing more films and then for a while was like, you know a guy for the did lots of walk film. So I probably did it about maybe six or eight maybe ten even shoots with warp, you know as they were like really on the way up and so I saw was in that Journey as well and then that solved one that's in the moving to London. So this is like the U basically found a crew of people within yeah. Yeah ended up getting bigger and bigger projects. You were part of that fan, you know, then when they made the move you moved with them and they were like a production company based off, but then they start to do not everything they did was in Sheffield that we did I think in Wales and kind of Scotland and you know and then and projects in London as well. So that that sort of was the time that I moved. Still showing that was it always was it always gaffing was it always being a lighting technician that yeah. She funny story getting. Yeah my story about that other thing I've realised about that is dead. I guess after this off of University and working on, you know, smaller the Sheffield stuff. I'd always thought of assumed like I would you know, eventually I'd want to be a d o p like for now I was happy Gathering but my career like I'll be a dop eventually something will kick. I hear a lot of people say that yeah and you like a shame but yeah in a few years once I feel more confident once I like know things, you know, once I've got my experience something will kick in and I'll go to that site later and I'll merge the two. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was sort of I'll step in to be in a month and then you know, but you know by that time I think you know, that was still I thought when after this is England, I worked on a phone call for Lions, which is another War thing and I was with a brilliant Direct. To call Chris miers who's like super talented guy over here and I can I can remember exactly where we were shooting in Spain and you know, but there was nothing about part of your job in the Saint shoot over there just having drinks in the bar and chatting with him and I said that to him, you know, he said he asked me what you've just has to you know, is it do you think or do you think you'll be a deal. When will you start DMV and well, you know, I think as I get more confident and as I get experience when we had this thing going on and I was just waiting for this month or this for something to happen and I remember exactly what he said. He said that he was called LOL Crawley. It was a couple of vop, you know, like a was working with Eric Wilson and da Nico in new did this is England and Christmas is the director said, you know like those guys. They don't question being gop's they just go. I want to be a deal. I'm going to dop wage. I just saw gone with it. It might not be the case for everybody. So this is just you know, my my version of that is then I was like, oh, I don't have that like urge that like, I don't wanna drive all that stuff like that. You know that thing but I'm just I'm a d o p I'm going to that's what I want to do and I was like, I was sort of like a bit thrown by that that's what made me think. Oh, what do I do? If I'm not going to be a dop What do I do? But then I thought I thought about it was like oh, but the thing I never questioned never even thought about was being a gaffer like that's that's the thing. I always did and wanted to do and there's like a some. Guess like, you know, a little light bulb went off in my head and I was like, oh, I never questioned being a gap. And so then I think at that point is when I was like, oh that's when I was I just be a gap in a golf is really good, you know being a gap is great. I really enjoy it every aspect of the job. I get something out of I just kind of I don't know maybe maybe something will eventually I'm still convincing myself that I might be a top-5. I don't think I will I'm going to be honest to me. I think it's I think it's the most interesting work out there is is lighting and film but that's you know, it's everybody has their own things that they think are more unless interesting but I think they don't really tell you that it's a job to nobody really knows that it's something that you can do when you're starting and getting your feet wet. And because it's so hierarchical it just feels like this is the natural progression. It has to go and end up being a DP but that's not true. There's a lot of efforts that we talked to that just that is what they they love and this is what I want to do and I don't want to go and do this part of work the same way that a lot of deep peace that want to be directors or anything like that. Yeah, I guess yeah exactly. That would be the same. Yeah, I guess maybe everyone off the version of that. I guess. You know that that's where I think my where I'd like to be and then as you start your career as you join the industry and you thought maybe just learn how the industry Worse a bit more your kind of like, oh, it's not quite what I imagined. You know, I seem to have I don't even know where I've heard this from, you know, when people start right at the start everyone out of its wants to be an actor or a director, you know, that's the two jobs. If you want to know what what the I want to be in the film industry. What do you if you don't know anything about it, you think that's all that you can either act or direct that they're the jobs aren't there then you off and you're like, oh no, there's like, you know, it's it said the film industry like there's a whole industry as a whole, you know, there's other jobs here then acting directing and eating Top Ramen in an apartment so we know there's like there is there's multiple Avenues and there's a whole middle area that people can work and I asked as when you started coming up, do you have any mentors or anything like that? They could help bring you up and for people that are off getting their feet wet that want to be able to you know work on bigger jobs and I think a lot of people that listen to this podcast especially our it's a lot of aspiring filmmakers. So, you know, there's a lot of we feel it in the, This this eagerness to like, how do I level up? How do I do bigger work? And guess what? What were some of those keys and and moments and things that are helpful for you, I guess as long as far as like mentors there was a so when I did this film jelly Dolly and I said I KO guffa did the other guy. That was the Gap and we saw, you know, cuz it was about you shut it in chunks. So there was a couple of you know, we'd worked together. Whoever could do. What day is was this guy called Dave who was like the the gaffer in Sheffield at the time, you know View and I guess when I first started and didn't know very much about lighting or equipment there was a there was a small independent film sort of studio production place and they did courses and I went and did like a short course on light bulb Dave was teaching the Gap teaching Lighting on but but Dave's way of teaching lighting wasn't like It wasn't like oh this is how you know a soft light or this is a hard line or a back light his way of teaching lighting was like how to not embarrass yourself on the set. You know that it was hard to set up equipment off. Yeah, like so he was like, okay. So this is a like a flag stand and sometimes like white hard to open cuz you know, you kind of like they get stuck or they get rusty and so it off if you're in that situation where it's stuck and people are watching just turn your back and they won't be able to see that, you know, there was a glass on how to hack it looks stupid. Okay, that's good. So that yeah, I guess I remember that after twenty-odd years. So that's sort of stuck with me. That's so funny wage. And then there was a another gap for that. I worked with a lot in Sheffield on my, you know, outside broadcast sort of shoot. So let's Sports and like, you know news item or they have a studio set up on you know off. Some sort of location. But yeah, there was a The Gafford another Dave actually made calls L was always was a big influence solve early on you know that the way he gathered I think I saw do things that way sometimes may not have hear his voice in my head when when I'm doing things when I'm asking for things cuz yeah, he suddenly died. I guess five or six years ago. Oh, no, I'm sorry. But yeah, then I could still hear him sometimes, you know, when I'm at this tips are these more Theory tips or these more turn your butt turn your back. So the producer he was like sofa I guess he was like, you know, this is what I want. This is the way we're going to do it, you know straightforward, you know, I guess, you know, he had high expectations of you know, if he told you to go, you know go and set that light up wage know in the kind of commentary box. You would have expected to know because you've done it before it was you know, I should oh you should have seen like, you know, if you were coming on like, you know, on other jobs, you should have paid attention to how it was done know, so, you know, he made you pay attention, I guess because you you know, you know, you saw I knew that if you had to explain things too much to you and he would a bit if it was something he hadn't done before and he wanted it w sauce on his way of doing things and you know, it wasn't, you know, it wasn't like a sergeant major or any sort of like, you know, yeah strict but you sort of knew the way that he should would want things done. Yeah, okay, so that was an influence as well. I guess it was just to learn. Okay influence. Yeah, just to like learn how you do things like, you know, not not so I guess not just too many questions questions, but not like You know, it can be annoyed if if someone hates you generally and you're working with so far. Yeah, so I think that's the same with the cafeteria dob. You don't want to be asking a lot of questions. How do you want this done? You know, they say we want to soft light, you know, you work as a graphic can work out how many lights should be in it, you know work with you doing good. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you don't need them to tell you how to lessen the amount of process. Okay. I want to I want to jump into Annihilation. But the thing is I want to ask real quick. So the things that went though our kind of vastly different in style, right? I mean like, you know, and you know, you were part of the teams on 28 Weeks Later, you know kind of earlier on and then working on, you know, you get home like Paddington and then moving from that to Annihilation, which I can't think of two more different movies are pretty there's some similar I say to me though kind of are you kidding me? Are you off? As in them, you know, it's like a really so there was a quick maybe a quick it was a funny. Yeah. It's like, you know. CGI beds in them so that you treat them the same. You're right. They're both CGI bear, you know, so but when we started annihilation in just maybe we just started to shoot and I'm talking about you know, like with with Bob the dop he might not remember this but we all remember our team cuz we were all stood around and he said something similar conversation came up with something. He said. Oh God, I hate I hate that song. Um, can I swear? It's Rowan? Okay on the Podcast yeah, of course, of course. Yeah. I'm sorry. I thought you were in the middle of the quote. I thought Rob was saying can I swear you know, sorry, sorry. No, so he said God I hate that bad movie and we'd all worked on Paddington and like Jesus. It's a bit a bit strong God. He really did like Paddington and we were like wild. Why is he so like he said maybe once or twice I called up there with me like God awful. We were all really proud of having what it's starting to the movie could probably what a lot of people have you got against parties and he was like, oh what he didn't, you know confused. I think he said you hate that bear movie that came off and what's the is it the Revenant Leonardo DiCaprio? Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. That's okay. He doesn't like he hates them. Nobody's been spotty. I want to jump so I guess not always really. Yeah. Sorry go on. Do you feel that way you feel like there's always a link between a lot of the fact that you shoot, I guess because you altogether or you're person working on it. There's a link that's just sort of threw you like. It's your work, you know, do you feel like it's a gaffer you have a that's the thing is that my, you know, the body of work that you've done is so to me as an outsider. It seems so different right like what other than the CGI Bears. Yeah one thing that happened and and you know Annihilation have in common and the crown right like so I wonder do you feel like as a gaffer you have like a certain like that you do bring some kind of through-line that that's sort of a a fingerprint of like more detailed here this from yeah. Yeah, you know, I think you take a lot of your late. I guess you take your cues from the GOP and the I guess the thing about the UK for the last few years has been you know, there's kind of been a shift it might be shifting back a little baby know but were a lot of productions for a while, you know, the dop would come with the director or and they all they would come from outside of the UK and quite often. I guess they would come off that you don't you know, they would come without their crew and for the production would give time, you know, which career outfall device if it was a UK production and Start as a gaffer, I guess you get to work. I got for a while, right? I got to work with quite a few different D. Opie's rather than maybe for like a few years, you know, I was in sync with just one month. Which was Eric Wilson who shot Paddington and we did, you know, we just worked together all the time, but then there was sort of a spell where you know differently of these were coming in and so you said I guess I let you know you've got a The style might be slightly different. If not slightly different would be would be very different quite often. You know, what what their taste was but you can't again going back to the I guess the thing of like, you can't have the dop telling you how to do things all the time because they just don't have the time they got to work with the director and art Department because the level of trust effects, you know, yeah, you've got to like take your cues from them, but then go and do the the work yourself like figure it out yourself. And so I guess in that way there's like a through thread in the you know, you know making decisions and as you in the dop gets know each other or like a trust the forms and your use of understand what they like and don't like then then then you saw that's less less questions and you and you can offer it up more. Most solution it's all coming to them with like, okay, I've noticed this is in a week course you in this scene. I thought we'd do it like this. Is that okay? And and I know from previous things that you've kind of like these sort of looks is subconsciously in the back. Yeah like to offer this and also that you might have done it if a nihilation again, you know a week before we did another interior. That's how we did it. Do we want to do some of the same sort of thing and then you just get like a yes or you know, if it's a yes, you just go great, you know start ordering the equipment think about the labor and all that, you know, then your boss has come up that it's a know and there's another thoughts. Then you sort of have that conversation taking that thought and then make your decisions based on that new information, but I think I guess you're still making your own decisions. And in that way you're sort of a threat is sort of Through you I guess like through anybody. Well, yeah, cuz no matter what you're going to bring your going to bring your habits. And yeah, yeah. Oh just you know decision making like it's quite interesting obviously look at a nihilation again. I can sort of remember exactly the decision. I was surprised looking at it again. How much or at least I think I can remember because and I think it's because you've made those decisions yourself cuz you had to do that. You would just make the same decision again, and you know, you know, you're not a different person you might know more, you know have more experience but created or maybe you'd solve up the same ideas. You know, so yeah, I think that's definitely hopefully there's like a thread where you're sort of in the you know in the in the shoots. It should be in the finished project. You know, I guess that would happen to everybody. Hopefully every crew member would have something I mean in in it. Yeah. I'm excited about an island nation, but we should go jump into this film now, Okay, I usually ask one question and the last question that I always end this with is if we're sitting here and Allah Annihilation the liver Windows behind you just took a open and you get sucked into there and there's this this crazy shimmering effect and everything is wiped and all of a sudden we're sitting down and you see yourself off. in college the gapping one of those ten films that you were gasping at the time and you're helping out and the status cleared cuz everybody's left for lunch and it's just you sitting there. Maybe you're you've just turned your back and you're trying to claim one of these these stands to make sure that the producer doesn't see it but the printers not even there. He's ever had lunch and you have a minute to walk over and give some advice about what is what is to come off the words that you would say before, of course, you know the whole effect wears off and we're sitting back here. No, I probably say you should go get lunch because everyone else has got luggage and no money because because well, okay because like look just pay attention. Why you not looking around I probably don't be this is what day of the gaffer would come in and be like, I'm not paying attention. Everyone else has gone to lunch and you just sat here looking, you know around the studio go and get some lunch because you need to eat. You know, there's a whole afternoon to come you might go over, you know, if you're hungry, you'll just get tired. You might not make the right decisions, you know, so I guess I don't know that's probably a strange answer but I think something like take care of yourself. Yes. Take care of yourself. What do you doing? This is this is a long run and you need to watch your health. Yeah, you know, I guess I guess like off another thing. I remember from when I was starting out and I got don't know where I heard this but I think in the film I heard I remember reading something that really stuck with me, which is there's nothing in the film industry that you can't expect no secret to the film industry. There's nothing you can't explain within 5 or 10 minutes. You know his Pawn industry. There's just lots and lots of these little things that you have to learn. So if you like You know, if that if the you know young little me didn't know the difference between daylight and tungsten lies, I could explain that to them in five or ten minutes, you know, I couldn't explain lighting the whole of lighting you can have you have to break it down into its component pieces are nothing you have to bring filmmaking down into its component pieces as well, but don't be intimidated by the whole thing. Yeah, so, I don't know if there is something you know, that that that one thing you would say to to you back in time. I think there'd be so many that you just kind of like, I've always relevant at that point. I think that's what I say because it's just too much to sort of try and sum up. You've got a yeah, I guess you just have to try and understand as much of it as you can. But you never know. Don't be don't be intimidated by the big thing know that there's a bunch of little puzzles. So I think as I stepped up on the on the jobs, it's not the the thing I took from us the jobs got bigger is like the month. You don't the equipment doesn't really change, you know, there's just more of it and there's more people but actually you let it's still a camera. There's still lights. I recognize you know that either LED now or off the lights. Yeah. Now they may be you know, but they don't particularly there's not, you know, different light different types of lawyers particularly on my mobile filters lighting package and that's also taste and you know experience or whatever but I don't there's not like again, there's not a secret to it. Yeah, you know and annoyingly is that there wasn't you could help me. I love that. So just you know again, we we don't Chris very often on this show, but it's so instead instead since there is no secret, you know. Shut up and go get lunch. Then just go go get some lunch. Take care of yourself. It's going to be fine also, because if the dop and the director or the European the VFX supervisor have bumped into each other at lunch. They might be having a conversation. You can over here to know what's happening later. So, you know, it's I've always found that I was like, you know, it's not again even Germany prior like wage where you position yourself. You know, I often like to be sort of in there with maybe with the art Department all locations depending on the the shoot cuz then you're just around and you're in those conversations with them off and you said no going on but I can see the I can see the the album so that I don't know why I just loved the idea of just someone rapping a rapping assis dinner flag stand and then just add a future version of them says up and it's like hey go get lunch. Yeah, I can see. Yeah, I can see what you're doing with that. See some don't think I don't think that's not go unnoticed the turning it back things. You just bought it more obvious than you All righty, guys there you have it. There's your episode with and hello to plane technician of annihilation. Now if you liked this episode, don't forget we've episode over on YouTube or actually do a full lighting breakdown of a bunch of scenes from the movie. I had my mind blown a couple of times which means that it was a good day because that doesn't happen that often lighting and I learned a lot of really cool things from This brilliant brilliant person. So if you liked this episode go give Auntie some love Tom. Thank you for coming out of the show. It was an absolute blast hanging out with him also want to announce real quick. Then we also have the Indy Mogul Reddit which we officially just launched up again, If you guys want to be a part of the community if you've been listening to this and for whatever reason I don't know what you're doing out of your of your darn mind listening to this voice all day. If you want to go hang out and read it instead you can actually see us we're going to be hanging on that YouTube on that Reddit channels. You can see it's over there post your filmmaker memes plus your stuff. We're going to be posting some exclusive content as well as taking questions for upcoming guests and kind of announcing the new people that we have coming up with the dog. Which there are many the team has been killing it. There are some really really cool guests that are coming on. So if you want to see that last head on over to reddit.com slash are slash Indy Mogul with a Y, of course, other than that I said, thank you so much for listening guys. Hope you guys are having absolutely amazing day staying safe. Of course, of course, we will get you guys in the next

Sheffield director England London technician University UK Film School YouTube producer Netflix The Full Monty US Alex Garland Rob Hardy Barry Ryan Chris miers Google gop
The Willoughbys, Making Home Count, & Disneynature Elephants & Dolphin Reef

Trailer Junkies Podcast

1:05:29 hr | 6 months ago

The Willoughbys, Making Home Count, & Disneynature Elephants & Dolphin Reef

"Sir I washed this glass disgusting. That's not a wash glass. Hold on in world where you only have trailers and posters to judge a movie. Jim Ted strikeout to answer the age old question. Will you see it on my God? Oh my God it's Ted. It's another human being bed so it's just once in a while once in awhile course. It comes home from work and I've never been so thankful for podcasting and all my life. I have human contact. You know it's funny because you podcast and yet now we're hanging out with other people and we're you know you're hanging out remotely every now and then you know we are okay. You're allowed. You're allowed our friends from New York. Yudo the we don't get to see them very often. They've busy lives. We have busy lives but now we're not so busy so we can kind of make some Oh yeah for sure cocktail dates and stuff so speaking cocktails these beers all right cool you go for it okay. So I teased this one last week when you had another like fifteen percent last week. I can't remember so I have a double cone and it's another one of those aluminum cans. Were they slap a sticker on okay? Says Twenty nineteen winner Alpha King Challenge Alpha King Challenges Double Cone West Coast nine point five percent. Ab So Alvarado's brewery. That's awesome nine point five. You say you're probably did. Is the war raging or? Are we still doing that thing? No no because you know I have a nine point zero today so you want a sixteen fluid ounces. So I won't be able to fill my glass the hallway drinking it. I mean it is Alvarado street brewery. But I'm drinking out of a dogfish head glass so oh wow that's good it's a west coast. Ip a like. I said so this is double. Ipm sorry yeah and this is like really really good. So those dippers gotTa love the DIPA. It has like a good like thick multi mouth feel suite on the front bidder on the back. And then it like as you're swallowing it like it fills your sinuses with like the alcohol kind of Vapors like super amazing. This is really good. Yeah I love it how about you what do you have? It's awesome so I have the last beer from handy market so I'm going to have to go out. Foraging soon. Wait a minute the last beer you bought from handy market or did you buy the last year handy market no. There's I hope well. Last time we were at handy market. They were closed. So that's what you said. Yeah yeah so I couldn't get a re up my beer stash. So luckily I had saved this one in reserve and it's called Foreign objects foreign objects and foreign foreign objects called God damned the Sun Imperial Stout batch number one. Ooh I if I I'M GONNA I'm GonNa do the old man thing and put my glasses up and read to you here. This is a foreign object. New Are Ale an intense dark ale made with oats lactose in a variety of strong dark. Malts we bring this to you for the attornal moments when darkness and the void. Space of consciousness are the only numb comfort to be found in a world of meat hooks and nothingness goddamned assigned. Goddamn the light. It shines and this world that it shows cool so the little poem for you so. I love how you have to like. Get your glasses out of the way to see and I I have to put glasses just went down to walgreens. You got your some readers. I got some readers. Yeah the funny thing is so I'm looking at it and I see like three point five and I'm thinking like okay point five. Well these are cheap and then I'm and I put them on. I mean I'm with an inches in my face and I'm like I gotta go gotTa go lower two point seven five. I'm like wow the lower the magnification cheaper they get so I finally get like a one twenty five so I go up to the cashier. She says it's like you know ten eighty or whatever it was and I'm thinking an eighty it said a dollar twenty five and then I realized. Oh that's the magnification. Like a better. My is the more money I save. Yeah silly me but not quite not quite yeah I want I want I want to take the top of the show just to apologize to you and our audience for the audio difficulties last week when I heard that and what I was listening to it when you and I were talking about it I was like so torn up about my audience out it and it was and I did you. Did you play football in high school or anything like that? I didn't play in high school. I played hockey and baseball. Okay well you play. You played hockey well. How he's a little bit different because you play. Well maybe not in high school did you. Did you play once a week when you do a sport? That's once a week and you lose and your and you thought that. Y'All you came so close and you had a good game but your team lost and I was like that's what I felt like what I heard my audio that wasn't coming through the sound system and you know I had set it all up to come through the the sound system and I had done some some zoom calls with friends and some blue jeans on work and stuff and it sounded great and people are like. Oh you sound great. You sound great and then when I realized there you toby had we heard the audio and I was like this is amazing because I sound great for zoom calls conference calls or everybody sounds like garbage right. Yeah and then for the podcast because I turned on the the equipment for the first time with the work set up it was it was an graduated. Wasn't picking it up so I apologize to you and audience and I just was like. Oh when can we get back out there? Do another episode so thank God. Fi finally came the next episode so I can hopefully redeem myself. This is better audio. You know it is what it is. Sometimes I mean there's podcasts. I listened to one of them. Is the skeptics guide to the universe right and they have. I forget what it is like episode seven hundred something and there's still episodes that every once in a while b script the audio and they're just like sorry we screwed it up you know and I'm thinking like these people have been at podcast since two thousand four and when you think about like sixteen years or whatever of podcasting and they still get it wrong some weeks. It's like whatever it's podcasting man that professional okay. Okay okay okay. I was just trying to psych myself up for the week I will say though is I listened to the when I was done. I always listened to the episode as the audience hears it. I downloaded through apple. Podcasts I listen to my ear buds. When I'm doing stuff and everything every week I just do it as the audience would do it. Just so I can have that experience Because sure I can listen while editing and everything right but I think the main thing is if I don't hear it the way the audience hears it then. I'm not being genuine with how it's being delivered in how it's being received with that said yet. You sounded terrible however I would say like about if people could get through the first ten minutes. Yeah the sound kinda disappear or the poor sound kind of disappeared and it was really a solid show. I mean we had a lot of good things to say and stuff. It's just it was what it was. You know it happens so I'm not gonna I'm not gonNA worry about it happens. Thank you cool. Speaking of last week to we talked about well the past two weeks we talked about all the different ways to streaming content. I have to say we missed the most available and free way to get well maybe a slight purchase but the most available and free way to get content over the air. Get some Get HARD WIRE. Get hardware antenna right. Just get an lake. I'd say Radio Shack but they don't exist go to MD BUN okay Amazon. Get yourself like a ten dollar and ten digital antenna. Whatever and all of a sudden you have amazing. Hd television for like. I don't know like thirty five Korean stations but yeah over. The air wanted to get that out there. I totally forgot about it. So but whatever and then I also wanted to say to that you know Ted I gotta appreciate you you know. I mean I didn't realize this cove in nineteen thing made me realize how much of a proper you are and maybe the families the fans out there don't even know Europe repor but Ted's bar prep in the show for about two years. Now what do you mean what would show you know? Since what November twenty seventeen. What do you mean what show trailer? Junkies podcast prepping for what president for for Cova Nineteen for the pandemic. Oh my God that my joke is lost on this guy really know you. Prep the show every week. Oh Yes ted's improper. That's a different kind of. I thought I was getting Maurice in the garage or something like we we. We have a hard time. You know. keeping our food ration for the two weeks that we're trying to space out our our grocery tramps two weeks. Oh my God. We go like every three days. Maybe at the liquor store like every other day. Geez you know so And speaking of which my friend Matt. He's the NAT. Go caver guy. How cool and so I shared with you guys a link to a Webinar that one of his caver colleagues who is also like some bio chem Mr something or biology person and she was I think University of Akron or something Ohio and she was talking about. It was like an hour. Forty five minute. Webinar about Corona Virus Cove in nineteen and and the whole nine and one of the things. She was saying the way to best protect yourself. You know like your physical self is through exercise. And I'm probably GONNA forget if you exercise eating healthy weight management and one of the things she said was limiting your alcohol intake however what she says in this. Webinar is she limiting your alcohol intake though I know how hard that is being cooped up in the house all this time. Yeah it's total. Buy Self Yeah. Of course I do everything I do. Whatever it is whether it's like fitness or teaching you know homeschooling the Boys Cook Dinner and by the end of the day man it was like Oh my God I gotTa have a beer or three well actually because and doesn't like Beers I'm getting into some some serious cocktail making you know like I have some time olives for Dirty Martini. That are the tomatoes. Aren't actually olives? They're little Teeny Green. Tomatoes that are pickled and they make for great dirty Martini. So have a good dard. So's speaking of cocktail. Are You doing like flare? I don't need flare doolittle. Tom Cruise Action. You know every now and then but not of it the bottles the bottles are they start getting expensive after a while when you keep breaking them right exactly last night. I did Pinochle Outta that. I that I altered a little bit. You know at a little lime to it was amazing. I think that of of all the cocktails I made. That was my favorite. You know if you would dirty Martinis Pinochle Ladas. We did a couple others that I forget old fashions and all these kinds of stuff. So we're hitting the hard liquor. Oh boy cock streak. So here's the funny thing is so. It GOES ON COUPONS DOT COM. And she gets these like paypal rebates so the papal rebate is and we have no affiliation with coupons dot com but the papal rebate so the first one is five dollar rebate by twelve pack. Stella Artois and meet like that's it it's like there's nothing else just meet so she gets a twelve pack of Stella just meet and she she got like you know like some pork and some you know sirloin she got meat and then the other one was six dollar rebate by chicken and a twelve pack of Sam Adams and you get six dollar rebate tax burden me and Sam Adams and like scour pig meat and Stella and we got like eleven bucks that's awesome. I mean they're pushing it man. They know you need me. Im- beer but other than coupons and you cocktail in like hell's your week so the week was good. We're we're settling into this New Normal for a little bit. It was neat. We got A. I got a linked in message not personally but to have it to the world. I guess to the world of the friends of motion so motions a post house and and production company that we work with the company wrote. We've always thought of ourselves partners and problem solvers and when the problems get tough so do we. Over the past two weeks have been implementing a strategic move off site to keep our team and family safe and to provide continuity to our clients. We're now fully up and running ed with all the capabilities. You've come to rely on for concepts to finish and everything in between as industry deals disruption delays in an uncertain future. Please be assured that we stand ready as steadfast creative partners to help you navigate. The road ahead stay safe and motion and the cooling was like motion. The Oh emotion is spelled M. O. C. E. N. When they changed their name all those years ago from Craig Murray productions. I was like this motion. There's no way it can stick you know. Why would you take something? That's so common and then make it this weird spelling that you have to explain all the time but it works there a huge ad agency so it kind of helped but the oh they kind of changed the oh throughout their iconography and this motion that they signed with has little house instead of a no it should have been like the round corona virus with the protein spike. Sticking out of it adds a little too much. I promise that I mentioned on the podcast. We the president gave me a little thumbs up so I did yeah. It's funny though. I've found myself in some defacto way of landing. The Santa Barbara Bike Coalition Advisory Committee. Uh-huh so Dr Dan fish beans so he's a former. Cdc Doctor who worked in human rabies human rabies. Yeah so I told him I said. How many cases did you deal with throughout your like forty year? Tenure one. Yeah okay sure. But he was like the Premier Guy for human rabies with the CDC right so now he's like a major funder. I guess whatever for like the Santa Barbara Bike coalition. And he's like this advisory Guy and all this stuff so somehow I've been talking with them and everything and now they have their interim executive director. They're still hunting for an executive director and they have all these other people on this committee. So right April fourteenth coming up is going to be there next advisory meeting that we're doing over zoom and. I'm going to be the one to moderate the meeting. I have no idea how this all happened. Look at you drafted into the into service. I've drafted and all of a sudden. I'm like wait a minute here. I don't know anything about like a bicycle advocate at advocacy or something and now I'm on the committee and I'm the guy like moderating the whole thing like what happened next next month you'll be presidents like I'm the President Organ Society and I can. I can barely keep house alive. So it's like I don't know what the next thing they're going to be like. Wow Jim that was really good. You are able to like move the meeting and he got out of here like forty five minutes. Will you be the executive director? I have a question. You should ask you this next time. You talked to them. If he's only had one case of human rabies in forty years. I'd be interested to know where in his tenure that that that happened. Could you imagine if it happened like they do much on you like this is going to be the most exciting job and then thirty nine ninety nine hundred eighty four out of your mind? I know I shouldn't yeah. That is a good question. When did it happen right well? It's kind of? It's a little bit like and not and not to make light of this than I do. Work at Disney and and you know being in the Disney channel side were fully working like all the time and is. She told me that six. Pm To Stop Bantering slack messages and to do all that stuff and and so we are. But it's time to be with your family now. And we're we're encouraged to do that and the executives all throughout Disney'll being great about this whole thing but you have to think that this is this is Bob Capex. First Month on the job. He's been in this for one month and at it's kind of like talk about like things that haven't happened in ears and your you start your job and it's like the first thing you have to deal with. You know what I got to say about that though when you have good leadership. They trust the professionals that they hired right right. They know you're going to get the job done because if you don't the Disney channel as it were won't exist anymore right so if you have a good leadership the leadership is GonNa understand that you're a professional that they hired. They hired you because you're a professional they trust but anyway. Yeah so it is what it is. It's great you know the it's a mixed blessing. It's a new normal. Who knows what it's going to be like. If the end of this week just got pushed. The schools just got pushed back to May fifth or something Ono. We're out till August we're done. Yeah you're done right. I think maybe oh the governor. The governor's want to push it to me. I don't know if they want to get may fifth for. No the governor said it's done. Oh no no no. But I'm saying back to work and like normal practice. They don't know but they. Oh not school. I think they initially said not school. But you know everybody else. Non-essential people back to work. Wait a minute I thought it was. Easter bothers me though when they say like essential businesses or non essential businesses. Yeah Yeah Tell. The owner of the non essential business that it's non essential to him exactly right right. I mean I hate when they hear. Oh that's that's not essential. You don't need to go to work. And that guy his family and everyone that depends on him. Yeah it's essential. Let him go to work and do his job. And it's so funny because I think terminology for this whole this whole Cronulla Colvin Nineteen Cove nineteen. Right everybody calls a colonel buyers and current events is the name of the whole classification of these viruses and on top of it they call it social distancing it should be physical distancing it's physical distancing and social totally there's social and spiritual connections that were making beyond that so yeah absolutely and Cova Nineteen is the illness that comes with it. It's what is it. Sars SARS to SARS COVA to is the efficient name of the novel corona virus but everybody says Covet Nineteen but cove in nineteen is the illness associated with SARS. Cova too. I mean the whole thing is just weird you know and I mean our Parson like how to even say that Lake. We're nitpicking straws or something but I mean the main thing though I would say is nothing really I mean I get it when you talk about. Essential right food is food. Shelter clothing is essential however to save. That someone's job is not essential in restaurants and stuff should close exactly last night. We went and got pizza from the local pizza place around the corner. Yeah and you know. I went down to the boys school. I got lunch because they like. Oh and seeing people and we get like they're giving out free lunch wasn't got lunch for the boys. Pbs J.'s and stuff and I saw the Manhattan Pizza Guy and I stopped in. I said hey you're going to be open for takeout tonight right. He said Yeah. We're open. I said okay. We'll catch you later. Wrote home called up. Hey Ordering Pizza Pizza. Pizza you the guy that stopped by earlier to ask. I said Yeah. It was on the way home from Los Barrels and he said Oh man you know thanks for coming by to check to see if we're going to be open we we appreciate it totally grateful because like that's their business it is essential. Pizza is essential to these people right pizzas their life. Everybody they employ their delivery people the pizza makers. I mean like you know his accountant. Who does his WHO. Who DOES HIS TAXES QUARTERLY. Yeah probably the guy probably has an attorney on retainer Casey food poised somebody or something who knows right but what. I'm saying yeah. Business is essential to a lot more people than just like me. Who's eaten pizza so I realized that but before we get down that road man one last thing I wanted to say though so I'm not sure about you but I've been doing like a ton of zoom stuff and yes. Zoom is under scrutiny by the FBI for security reasons and people are zoom bombing. Yes the other thing. There's a class action suit going on with zoom because they were like behind the scenes funneling. Everyone's data whether you were a facebook subscriber or not to facebook. Yeah exactly Huckabee scumbags and like all these school districts are putting all their faith in hope and zoom without even like I mean they just jumped in both feet boom zoom. It's it's too easy I think so. We have. We have a plethora of different videoconferencing things that we use blue jeans sky. You know you and I use skype and you know there's all there's there's tons of them out there right but zoom just so easy and when I try to get somebody else on a google hangout or Google account. I don't WANNA I don't WanNa Google knowing everything about me doesn't count come well. Yeah that's what I say. But they're like but we'll do zoo like oh I can't believe that you know and Zoom. Moi's felt like the things that made it super simple and super super easy for these like automation. Like when you turn it on at like it automatically takes over your settings and it does all your settings for you. I read it. It feels like a virus that I was like. It just feels like it's doing stuff in the background that I don't want it to be doing but it bit is. What makes it easy thing that I think we fall into the trap of when things are easy you know just like Google right like I tried to use duck duck go and I'll use duct. Dako gave me what I was looking for but then other times it's like it's not even close to Google. I get exactly what I'm looking for and there's times has experienced this. You're talking to your wife. You're talking to your girlfriend. You're talking to your kids. You're talking to anybody and you're like interesting. Well let's Google and you walk over and you and you slap on your your keyboard and you type in you know how many toes does a duck have or something right because like nobody knows that? Answer Bah and all you gotTA DO IS TYPE IN H. O. And it's like. How many toes does it? The cab auto earth did it. No I wanted to know how many toes duck had its creep factor. One zero one. Yeah it's like we have Alexa do you. Guys don't have Alexa Right. No we don't have any homes smart homes smart Scher. We don't have any of that stuff home assistance. Yeah we like it but the other side of it though and then we'll move along but the other side of it is people that say they don't want to Google account but yet they're all over facebook and instagram and Amazon. That ship has sailed man like. They're all cross talking. Yes anyway. I couldn't be more grateful the podcast now than I have in the past two years like A. It's it gives me an excuse to like like I'd say get out of the house but virtually exactly. Yeah so let's get into some trailers. What do you say all right? Let's get into some streaming trailers for so like because the movies are pretty much closed. Were stuck with streaming. I hate to say we're stuck with streaming because that's what we do all the time. Right but Netflix official trailer of the Willoughby's what are your thoughts. Since right I like the take on. You know another comedy with kids. It's kind of it has like an addams family vibe to it. You know it has like yeah has like this creepy. Not The greatest family but the kids are cute and the kids. Have the you know like these awful things. They want to do their parents. And you had you know. It's all in good fun and did as I think the tongue in cheek -ness of what the story just draws you in it it. It seems refreshing. You know when when you're at home with the kids and you are watching a lot of content with them. It's it's nice to have something. That's that that everybody can watch but maybe hits different has thought ever crossed your mind. What your kids are scheming against. You know I don I you know. I mean they so individually. Maybe maybe bryce has caught something. Oh so we did a freaky Friday. So every Friday we. We have a like a fifteen minute. Stand up where the whole team gets together. This is at work at work. Okay and we have that we have at themed so the past two. Fridays were both themed and This past week we did one that was called freaky Friday so everybody would dress up in their clothes from freaky Friday or whatever and this is while you're making magic in your dining room. Yes exactly so. I got a printed a picture of an hour an hour glass which is from the last freaky Friday. The one on the dekom that is original movie with free Friday and I put a chopstick over the computer so it hung perfectly in the frame with hourglass there and I got a little apple box for Bryce to stand on and Bryce put on like a fake pair of glasses and one of my suits and he stood in front of the microphone and I talked off camera and pretended like he was mouthing. Is The one speaking for him? And he was mouthing it the whole time and I was like. I couldn't find anything to wear for freaky Fridays so I don't know what happened but I woke up in this body and he's like flow. Theo flailing arms around in this this suit and he put popped glasses out of three d glasses that you know that he got thrown the bucket because he wanted to keep them so he just punched out the little polarized lenses for the whole rest of the day he was wearing the glasses pretending to be me and he catering a little little espresso cope and he kept yelling. I need more espresso and I was like. Is that what I've been doing for the past two weeks just running around like say? I need more expensive. Is that what my son thinks that I do at work all day. It's so funny because like I'm at a I'm at home doing like I said well. Last week I kept. I kept The Freudian slip saying we're off work but no we're really working from home and I'm doing stuff at work and everything my kids are like. Oh that's working okay. So and then they start imitating me and I watched them and I think to myself is that the message. I'm sending like I sit here and watching youtube videos. You're at the computer again. Can we watch youtube videos to? I'm like I'm not watching youtube videos. Well I see video tape. I'm doing the zoom meetings and stuff right right right watching youtube videos. Can we watch youtube videos? It's like Oh the message that's being sent is so cute in the wrong direction. No you don't go to work watching youtube videos. Well and then on Friday afternoon to end the week we actually did get together and watched onward as as a team so my my son was like can I watch one hundred and like yeah but you can't make comments this is we're paying would've been like rock and right now. I know Jabari Ghulam I gotta give it away. I gave it all the way. It's already out so yes so the Willoughby's I like it. I like the hijinks the adventure. What's not to like it? It feels like it's got the heart in the right place. Everybody's pulling for everybody. You know I think that to me. That's what I was. GonNa say with with Audrey embrace and once fourteen to one ten you know. It's hard for them to get on the same page because they have such different schoolwork and they have different personalities. Bryce gets up at like ten eleven hawker. You know we're trying to wake them up earlier. But it's like I gotta go to work and I can't see to other than going in there and waking up every hour. There's nothing I can do right so by the time he gets up. Arteries done with Oliver Schoolwork. And he's like well. She's just sitting around on her phone. I'm like no. She got up at eight o'clock because she knocked stuff out and now she's got free time. You know so. I like the fact that the feels like this family of the Willoughby's the kids are going to work together. They're gonNA solve their problem and we're going to have some laughs along the way sometimes working together could also be defined as conspire. Yes I agree. I like the color. I liked the animation. The nanny who they hire with the big hair I think more women their hair as disguised. Facial hair disguises. I think if you if somehow maneuver around your cheeks mustache. You know like women with long hair. I'm saying I think they could do some fun stuff with that overall. I don't see a barrier to entry with this. You know I think it's GonNa be fun. And I like the where they say you know. You have kind of like the parental guidance. Would you call it like the PG? Oh the warning. Yeah the the warnings. Yeah. Yeah and it's pretty much like crass humor and it's like Oh that's right up Mikey's alley you know like the boys have been like Levin like Finnish verbs so I'm just like okay. What's different right. Yeah but yeah. We're definitely GONNA watch this. I mean I think it'll be fun. How much you're finishing ferber. They watch so they watch a lot of it. I mean I kinda watch from afar just to see what the subject matter is if I had to guess. I don't know like season wise or anything but I guess like thirty ish episodes so they're into it. Okay there's a lot there's a lot of episodes there's there's a lot of episodes there's a great new show called Milo Murphy or Murphy's law or something that and by the same creators and there's a crossover episode where fitness for go to they go to Milo's world or they're in the same universe and it's kind of a neat look so if they get into Milo Murphy they can probably get into that too so okay well. They've done the star wars which is half dozen or something but moving along to the key. Yes making making home cast. So it's kind of a way to say like all the fun things you could do at home other than beyond your device looking at instagram right. What what do you think about marketing in time like this? It's hard right like it's hard to. It's hard to strike a tone when you know such important things are happening in the world and you still have to talk about Your Business in the things that you do. You know. It's like it. Seemed like this struck a nice tone. You know it it. It did what it had to do and took care of it in a very respectful way. Yes I would agree with that and I would also say that. There's commercials advertisements. Whatever say during football or something like that and other companies have done similar things where they show lake connections with people right right so it'll be like oh talking with gramma hanging out with friends like you guys do in the east coast having a birthday cake and everything. Yeah and then like it's all these connections one after the other the other end like by the end of it like your eyes are welling up with tears in your your lower lip is quivering and then it's just like softly across the screen apple. You know something like that. At and T. Yeah exactly these commercials. They've done them before. I mean it's it's nothing out of the ordinary. It's nothing extraordinary right. It's something that's been done in the past. You know it's just I think now they're just applying it to everybody's just at home and I think shot at two with like the AD agencies families in that in that they really you know. Yeah so it's kind of like it was a much more involved thing. We can't get everybody in the studio. Because we're all like physically distancing see what they did. They did there so that well. Well well place well-placed so now what we're GONNA do is we're going to have you on your cell phone and your Gopro or something and then just send us the footage together and Luckily Kia Malaysia. So then have to deal with the HR in the United States where they would have to. Have you sign a waiver? Oh yeah because you're on air talent versus not outside of my job description because the pictures hanging on the wall. We don't want to have to pay for that person's likeness the commercial right. We've decided waivers for everything exactly exactly. Yeah I mean I think it was done in good taste. All things considered I mean. Yeah I was watching and I was saying I was reading it to the boys that was going on because it was kind of coming across a little bit quick and Mike. He can't read yet and Tim is like he's a reader but like he's just not a fast reader so I I was reading it for him yes as I was reading it. You Know Wha- various things that were popping up in reading in Timmy's like we've done that. Yes and Mike sees is red so that you know and so like they they actually connection to it. You know as if like cool as if like yeah. I'll while we're doing all that stuff to like. You know whatever you know videoing or playing games in and so on but yeah but overall though I thought it was. I thought it was appropriate. Yeah it was good. It was good I liked. I like to think of like you know I had like an ad campaign in mind and the before all this they they pitched in and they were trying to deal with the AD agency. They're like I guess we're all being sent home. I guess we don't. We don't put together the ad you know. Put together this ad campaign as like wait. I think we can still salvage something. Still make a campaign out of something or these other scaled down for you. Wouldn't it be funny? If the ad that hit the cutting room floor was all about everybody retreating to their own rooms doing their own thing like the exact opposite of what this was coming again. All right so speaking of coming together. Let's get in the living room and back to Disney plus and we're talking elephants dolphins. That's right so Disney plus in and Disney nature the the other studio brand that is especially Sink Dan with April. I think they're calling it earth month now instead of Earth Day. What Is April Twentieth April? Twenty second twenty second. Yeah Yeah so when the Willoughby's comes out April twenty second is Earth Day but the whole month. They've kind of claimed well. This opened last night April third as our recording on April four. That's right so we were we you know I like. I love the Disney nature stuff. We've worked with them before the you know they have it every year usually theatrically and it seems like this was planned to have a bigger impact you know and it makes sense to put these nature. Docs on Disney plus. So it's great that they have a a venue to put these out and when I heard that Meghan markle was it out doing the doing the. What is it? The voice over no the the narration. The narration for Elephant. I was like Oh man I get to work with Markle but now this is already all in the can and everything done but then when when we watch the trailer it says in the trailer Megan Comma the Duchess of Essex. You know I was like what is that. So Duchess of Sussex Alright and I went over and I you know I got an. Because she's she's super into all that crown stuff and I said what's up with this Meghan and she's like Oh that's when she kind of when she moved to Canada or wherever move to La and and then she got rid of her weight move to Canada or la where she moved. I think Sh- move to North America. She so so she moved over here and the inherent her had to kind of abdicate advocate the crown but kind of give up part of what they have and what they gave up so. I was told I could be doing this wrong. And then you'll have to tell me to fix this later but What she gave up was her Royal Highness. So typically when you become part of the aristocracy that becomes your name so your new name is her Royal Highness the Dutch. What is it. And he said the Duchess of Sussex Sussex so that was her name back when she was her Royal Highness. She was over there now that she's come over here and kind of separated a little bit from the throne. Now she's Meghan but she's still the Duchess of Sussex right so the pro the trailer that we have it got it right because it says Meghan Comma the Duchess of Sussex but then we started to watch it. You know with the kids and stuff and because make fun of me because they're like oh. Danny thinks Megan's attractive body wrong then and then when we watched with an Air Asia with the subtitles. Because that's what kids love to watch with subtitles. It says it lists her as her Royal Highness. The Duchess of Sussex so they didn't get in in time to to get rid of that that that Little Faux Pas of theirs. Yeah I know it's like sometimes I think when you look at somebody who was an actress then marries into royalty and then they wind up changing titles. I mean. It's hard enough when say at work. A teacher gets married and her last name changes. I mean that like floors. Now you're looking at somebody who's not even your name changes but like your title and the way your titles presented and then like the region that you're living in I mean it's like all these things get layered on top of everything else gets layered on top of and like yeah. Hookah keep but overall the boys were looking at it and so I watched it. I watched the trailer with them and I watched all trailers with them. So it's kind of a kid friendly trailer week and three trailers with them and they loved the elephant and Dolphin. One Timmy's especially fond of sea turtles and he does all kinds of stuff with her when he saw the turtle lake little like flash on the screen and it almost looks like a singer or something. I mean like Oh my God like my. My son went like he was so excited and then when the elephants are swimming in the in the water and everything and so it looks. I mean the the photography cinema can never say that the cinematography you're headed guy got it then yeah nailed it the HD resolution of it. All I mean it just looks awesome. You know it looks awesome. Yeah one thing that we've been wanting to watch we haven't seen yet though is It's on Netflix. I don't remember the title exactly but it's like the animals at night or something. You're like the the wild okay. Essentially it's it's like the Animal Kingdom at night too so what happens at night when Lake the Wilderness and everything that comes out and everything that happens and I hear. It's like awesome so I wanNA watch that one too. So maybe we'll just have like a binge of nature shows over the next few days or something there you go. Yeah Yeah but no. This looks cool to man. I'm excited about. Who'll do you want to transition from talking about what you're going to watch toy about your washing. Well I will transition so yeah so with that. What have you been watching? Oh man so I fi- and I finally finished Picard Sii out camping. You know you're in the backyard next to a fire. Watch it but card. I'm on the computer that's right. That's right we had a couple of bottles of shampoo on the pain per per Seco-. Yeah you know when you get your tolerance up by drinking these cocktails you got like two bottles per second two bottles of Nice little glasses. You're just chugging it now. We had our nice. We had our stem Louis. Plastic glasses for the Hollywood bowl that we have. So I saw you out in the yard next to the what size Mac is at a fifteen inch. Fifteen inch okay. Big screening it big big screening at our feet with well by laptops today. That's a pretty big screen. Yeah so it's at our feet. Were watching Picard. The kids are in the house. I forget what they were watching. They're watching something else watching the grinch. It's like all right. We started dinner the grinch and they they wanted to watch the grinch and as like find you guys go with the grinch and the Christmas yes Christmas movie. Yes the they like the latest grinch. What did they watch it on there watching a lot? They're watching? They're watching a lot of television. You know we've lifted the weekday ban and everything. It's like it's crazy. I mean it was like it's like screen time type things. Well all the school stuff is screen. Time freight yeah exactly teachers zoom meetings. I mean you're talking like Alexia reading programs I mean I do what I do like analog like all right we're gonna read actual books. We're going to write an actual paper with real pencils. You know and and I still kind of thing but then it's just like are you guys. I tell you what man like. They will wear you down down to the point where it's like dude. I gotTA get dinner ready. Just go do something and I actually. I actually like uploading and downloading massive files. Like I have a ten a ten gig upload that's going up there and you know in a home system that takes forever and the Kids WanNa Watch something and I'm like just pull the BLU rays out. Please just watch a bluer so I so. My upload speed doesn't get lake knocked off by watching Netflix stuff and can I say though that I don't remember what it was. It was uploading. Oh you know what it was. I applauded my entire photo library to. Google is so my my cal state northridge. I have a C. Sun Unlimited Google account and I back up to the cloud so right man. I don't know I have like a terabyte of photos or something so I was uploading everything. Yeah and way it uploads it says like. Oh Yeah we'll upload and we're going to like completely take over your system. Yeah we'll hog the bandwidth. Well no it doesn't hug the bandwidth really it's only five gigabytes up. It's like sixty down right. But what I learned is the sixty down cannot down with a little bit of up because you have to have the up. So netflix knows like it. Keeps given the upload so netflix. Knows when you pause or where you are like all these little Lake Crumbs. It needs to know what you're doing essentially right what you're clicking around on. Because they WANNA feed you slap so it's kind of like a handshake. It's a back and forth but when you but when you're upload is five solid and there's no room high anything else the down completely shuts off because it needs the up to know what to down. That's hilarious. It goes back to what we said before man like give me a slider just let me let me dictate what I need up what I need now but whatever we don't need to go down that path again. Yes yes so yeah so we. We've been watching that we've been watching All the Harry potters. Oh okay now Harry Potter streaming or BLU. Ray Blu Ray. We have a mom blu-ray and Because you know braces you know. He doesn't like watching things. That are too scary and the and the later movies do get darker you know so we get to watch those. During the day you know. During our lunch hour were encouraged to make sure that we take a you know a good solid lunch hour which braces then taken up. Is Our Harry Potter Time? Okay so we watch a BLU rays which a blue Harry Potter and It's fun to watch it again with him and he kind of he kind of knows some of the stuff. He'll run out of the room. Like wow you're in another room. He goes I know about this party. So he's pretty sensitive stuff he doesn't WANNA watch it. Yeah he doesn't he doesn't like you know too much of the death or I don't know this you know then. The later movies die so he and Timmy are kindred spirit as Mike. He'll sit there through it. All but tim you'll run out to though. Yeah it's it's fun and then personally the best thing that I've been watching for the past month now is deb's man devs on. Hulu A on Hulu. Fx Is the best thing. I've I talked about this yet on the pod. I feel like I wanted to the past two weeks but I don't think I have whether you did or you'd you didn't. I can't remember so devs. Is Ron Swanson? Doing as a as a like Steve. Jobs type of character but they have one massive supercomputer that they're working on and it's like extrapolating the future of time and space so it also goes. It goes back in time. It goes forward in time and this past week's episode was all done at a kitchen table. So a Lotta Times with how we talked about in the past. So is it twenty two minutes forty four minutes. Or how long are the episodes? They're forty four minutes. They're they're like our long hour long episodes. But it's so funny because the minute that I saw setting up and going into the space where the hero is kind of meeting the main antagonist. And they're kind of doing this face to face over the kitchen table. You know I was like Oh this is going to be interesting. And then the whole thing plays out just in that kitchen table and then like in the front yard of this. You know Steve Jobs kind of character and with such little like action happening. It's amazing that the plot is just driven forward. And you're just you're just taking even deeper into the story of what's going on and you know it just it was like Alex Garland is showing off that his exposition skills are so great that he can just put across the table and play it out for an hour and everyone satisfied. You know the story that they told for that our was amazing. What's the underlying theme of the of the series theme of the series? Is that there's a Oh it's lake deb's what is Dev so I mean yeah. So it's about deterministic. The deterministic theory. You have no free will have no choice. What you do has all been determined by every other thing in life so it kind of it bounces between that and the whole idea of branch theory where you know a string theory where everything is every choice then branches off into two possible universes in an infinite branch tree. Okay so every time the choice happened. You know it splits. The universe in the New Universe is the this choice that choice you know so in an infant university there's an infinite number of universes within that universe so it's kind of the whole basis. Is this a Maya? The daughter of the Steve Jobs character his name is forrest. He watches his wife and daughter. Have a car accident. Like a block away from the house. So it's science fiction. Yeah he watches them die in front of his eyes and then as an as they play out as he runs down to the car they play out all the other possibilities of that car accident happening. Where Oh this way? It's just a fender bender. Oh this way. It's a near Miss. Oh this way they swerve in one car swerves into the other car now and then this way the other car swerves you know. So they while he's walking down like screaming no and crying for the block that he has to run over to the car to try to pry it open to get his family out. He's all these other things are happening to show the audience that in infinite number of universes. This is where the other universes are fine. And while he's like trying to pry the door open in his universe in the universe were in you know in the other universe. The baby's arriving at home and he's pulling his daughter out of the car seat. You know so it's like it's it's a. It's a mind bender. You know it's classic. Alex Garland you can get classic with X. Machen A- and and annihilation. He's done movies I think so. This is the first TV venture but it's an amazing TV show. Oh cool man like devs on Hulu so it's only on Hulu Dave's is on fx. It's only Louis. Yes Oh could it be fx if you if you were able to affect somewhere else? I don't think so so. It's strictly who I think it's it's it's because it's brand new. It's in that no. Yeah Yeah it is only you know it's it's it's fx branded within the Hulu delivery process. Gotcha okay anything else on your watchlist that you've you've enjoyed that's it just waiting for DEB's every Thursday now so we're doing lego master. We're waiting for legal master every Saturday. Oh wait tonight with episodes so yeah so we've been doing legal master and Fox now we watch it okay. Yeah the boys are totally in the lego masters. So there's these couple of dudes on there with these beards and hadn't even remember their names Rick Boone or something but so the funny thing is now. The boys go sit at their lego building table. Thing that I built forum. Yeah and now. They're playing the characters on legal master. Who BUILDS THE LEGOS BOONE? And like they try and like put beards on their faces and stuff. And that's awesome to Larry's it's like you know. And then they're building whatever they're building you know and then they're just like you know Daddy. Will you judge this? Let me know what you think. He's ing like I think I'm GonNa give you the golden brick you know whatever it's this like That's awesome yeah. It's pretty funny. The way the way they kind of like you know fell into just the the way. They've presented the Lego master show and everything. It's it's hilarious. And then we watched Watched mission impossible fallout okay. We liked that. Did you like the good popcorn flick. Oh Yeah no. It was great. It was I the one thing though. It's like two and a half hours right somewhere around that length and I mean it were begins where it ends. There's a thousand twists and turns and it's so it's so ridiculous of the number of turns this movie makes to whereby the like if somebody said what's it about. Where do I begin like ask? You cannot say oh it's a I mean all you can say is it's a action packed spy flick that takes place in Europe. There's no way you could talk about all the events that happened. Because I guarantee you're gonNA miss something but one thing I gotta say though. I couldn't help but laugh so hard when he's like in the earpiece running through the office building yelling about what he's going to do next. Look it Adam link. Because they don't know he's talking he's talking to his ear. Yeah we're continuing with clone wars. That's just I mean. We're going to be doing that for a while. What season are you on four? I think I think we're at the end of four. So yeah we're at the end of four. I think we just finished episode fourteen of season for so there's a ton of seasons man Tennessee And then so some trainer fodder a Netflix is. America's book of Secrets. And it's one of those documentaries. That are just so stupid but I don't have to pay attention and when I miss because I'm like doing these intervals and I'm like completely like thrashed and when I'm done being like I'm finished with my affixing of you know my my oxygen fix. How do you pronounce it fix? The I don't know yeah I guess so but like think again like I just pick up where I left off. But here's the thing that annoys me. Oh deprivation oxygen deprivation deprivation. No but like. If you're a fixated like someone's choking you out is okay. Yes yeah. So here's what annoys me though so one of the episodes. It's I love to like the way they play. Is there a real book of secrets that no one wants you to know? Sir and one of the episodes is the playboy mansion like really. The playboy mansion is in America's book of secrets. But anyway but they're like you know they'll talk about something and then is there a secret passage to the Elvis Room is that is just like it's so ridiculous however some of the things they have like. There's a lot of good information just to like as in just like trivial knowledge. Airforce one has so many like square feet and Baba. It's interesting but then they get into like the quote unquote secretive stuff. That's really not a secret because like if it's a secret you're really GONNA put it out on. You know like Netflix. Come right yeah. It's not a secret I like other like. It's a secret you're gonNA hear here right. That means it's not a secret because like Netflix. Right really ubiquitous. You know it's pretty bad but it's good trainer fodder for when you know in the throes of a crazy s interval that I can't breathe and I'm not paying attention because then when I start paying attention I miss nothing you know. It sounded like something Anna would like. And then until you describe. It's it's yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't just sit and watch it like I would watch it if you were like. Let's say you're at the gym and you're doing like you're on the treadmill right. It's good for that kind of stuff because if you're distracted by a woman in a Leotard or something I dunno distracted by something right then. Your attention comes back like you missed nothing. Yeah okay. There's no story I mean. Fbi One was cool but anyway hurry no so mission. Impossible followed definitely the highlight of the week awesome. Yeah that was a lot of fun tomorrow. I'm going to probably watch minority report. I've never seen it. Oh yeah that's great. I love that movie. Yeah I've always. I know the premise. Like they arrest you. Commit the crime cogs. Yeah so I know all about it. I've just never seen it which I can't believe there you go so it's shock. Yeah so we watched follow and they just fed me minority report and I thought you know what why the Hell Now? I'll bite good oblate. I'm a fish L. Bite you know when you when you talk about the the Lego masters though it reminded me brace was showing me this video last night. We we part of the reason we had to push. Our our podcast record was bryce wanted to go camping last night so we did some in the backyard and you know we both had our phones so he showed me this video. This youtube on Lego Printer. Have you seen this printer before? I haven't seen it before but you just shared it with me and I'm seeing it now. So it's a printer at. It's all built out of legos. Oh Wow it is. Printer that prints in legos takes like an image and it scans the image in in you know with the colors and then it takes the blocks the takes little little one by one blocks and it places it down on a on a grid of of Lego like lego plate. You know one of those wide plates. Yeah and then it places it out in all the colors. So it's kind of an amazing little thing. They built so if I took a picture view imprinted it would print you in Lego if you had the the right number of color. So you'd have to. You'd have to pixelated to the point where each block could be a pixel. Oh I'd follow you. And then you'd have to have a certain color limitation of like three different colors or something that so awesome. That is so cool. I'M GONNA have to check that out. Yeah so the boys for sure I will from from from from all right man well. Hey I'm glad you got your sound figured out and I'm sure everyone else's too and yes we'll have to just get through this whole. What is it SARS COVA to stars coveted? Yeah novel Corona Vires Cova Nineteen there. We got it right. That's right the whole thing the whole thing. Yeah the whole thing. That's from beginning to end so the minute you can track it through what it is to the minute you like. Hopefully the POOP recovery poop it out. Yeah hopefully recover but yeah you know. Hey you guys enjoy the next week at home and I mean we're trying to get out like oh here's something cool though final and then we'll be done. Yeah so I said boy. Let's go downtown. Let's just go right around for a little bit. Throw them. In the urban era we went riding around town and anger just cruise an and so of course one way see cold coast brewing company. We got a new brewery coming into town. Nice suit I am so excited. It's supposed to be here. We're going to open this spring but obviously with everything going on. They're not opening so they're they're talking now. July so otherwise I think it would have been opened by now or within the next week or so. But they're holding off. I mean unfortunately smart. You know one thing. I wish they did though was like I dunno out the back door like do sales at least for. Hey you know the tavern and not open. We can't do it but we made all this beer like well. How about we sell it to you guys. You know and it'd be like hey speaking speaking making beer you made some bearded. I didn't make beer today. Yeah so I had five batches. Today was four of five so I'm at wow at twenty gallons and that's a. That's a lot of beer. Yeah so only. Two of the four already We me and Clarisa had one of my Belgian Ales brewed and She got about halfway through the glass in just looked at me with like a days. Look and said Yeah. This works by the head of the half percent or so. Yeah I know you know so I I did an English olde ale today and okay. Yeah and Timmy helped me. And Mikey I said whatever you do. Don't trip over the hoses you know. Because we don't need the whole thing of boiling liquid coming down on You. But no timmy helped me do like you know moving hoses around and moving buckets around and Grain and all the stuff that we do for brewing and stuff. So yeah I'm incorporating the boys in you know. Now maybe it'll be a fourth burry. Come into town. Who knows one of these days? I'll do something other than what I do. Yeah awesome cool though. That's the problem with me new. Man We're like you know Ed Norton and Ralph Kramden. Roy's like scheming the next entrepreneurial venture that we're GonNa make millions on but yet we just grab all right man awesome. We'll talk to you next week. Sure enough later back next week. Join Jim and Ted as they disarm another Hollywood bomb or marketing masterpiece remember the Holy Trinity of podcasting subscribe like share a special thanks to Jeremy Jackson for the voiceover and Helio for the music.

Netflix Google Jim Ted Disney youtube Timmy bryce Hulu president Europe Alex Garland football Cova hockey Mike BLU Disney walgreens Louis
FFR 118: Devs

Feminist Frequency Radio

55:45 min | 7 months ago

FFR 118: Devs

"Af Our listeners. Did you know that if you join our Patriot community you can get nifty perks like early? Access exclusive weekly bonus segments access to our friendly discord. And more. That's right you can get cool stuff and help us keep doing. F- are at the same time. What are you waiting for that Patriot dot com slash them free? I immediately started asking the question I asked whenever I see like a super layer. Because that's what it's GONNA turn out to be. Which is who built this. Who CLEANS IT Langley? Bullshit exactly sucks their friends. Don't thank you God. Welcome to a feminist frequency radio. This is the show that asks you to be critical of the media. You love. I'm Anita Sarkisian. I'm joined today by two women from the air. That says stupid shitting. Get stuff wrong. Karen pet it. You Ain't woke your coma toast every atom. What would you like to stop that? So all right this week. We'll be talking about the new series deb's from Alex Garland the filmmaker behind ex MAC and Nile Asian. Hello friends everyone pulling up okay. Considering that we we lost that hour of sleep last night I know. So how do you want to know why I'm so happy? Why because you want everyone to suffer like you do part of it as part of it because you don't sleep well true but it is. I didn't realize how delightful it is when I'm jetlagged with a particular type of jetlag and then I lose an hour which means that. I'm going to adjust faster. Like huck and nine. Yeah so I was like oh I'm not awake at five. In the morning so selfishly. This time he worked out well for me but it sucks everyone else. But you know what y'all can suck it because I'm here for the Sun Lane. Oh yeah right for real. Yeah wow a note to self and everyone else we can suck it just that combined with the opening women to women from the air that says stupid shit and get stuff wrong like I just know. Someone's GonNa cut out the women from the air and it was speed to stay soon. Get some wrong. Oh boy and speaking of getting stuff wrong. I've been You know what the day before we recorded. This was International Women's Day and I saw some dumb ass shit on the Internet. People don't understand how to do this at about multinational oil company. Shell adding an apostrophe but dying the am I I'm not real well so embarrassing also know that. Yes this that one. I think we're all living in an edition of the onion right now. Like that's just are less No I was referring to. I didn't even look to see who this was. I said their user name on the posts had been shared with police. Something's what might be a police department. Where Four International Women's Day? This year they had women award and nominate men who had helped them in their careers. Oh God are you. I mean I died like that's the shit where people like. They think that that is actually. That's that's right. Just they think that that's the way to do this. In a state of shock every legitimately is just like I can't dater I can't process this okay anyway. So don't do things like that. Yeah do nothing like literally. If you don't know how to do the thing that is actually good for women or helpful. Just do nothing you know. What's better than what you're doing right? Although I have to say maybe I just wasn't online enough yesterday but I did not see nearly the amount of international women's Day how come there's no men's day you know like that Kind of Internet bullshit. That comes around anytime. It's like black history month or indigenous peoples. Not there whatever so. I'm sure it was there but I just happened. Ms It or it just got drowned out amongst all the other shit. That's Nice for you. It was nice. Yeah you know. I'm grateful yeah anyway. Let's talk about a TV show. That was made as a filmmaker. Alex Garland has a history of making science fiction films. That are ominous and psychologically complex films like X. mcdonagh and annihilation now he's created a limited series called devs which bears many of his signature traits like the zone known as the Shimmer from an isolation the campus for Bay Area Tech Company. Amaya on deb's place practically overgrown with natural beauty but also a place of mystery and secrecy like Oscar. Isaac's Tech Wiz an ex McKenna. A my seo forest played by Nick Offerman just might be taking technology a little too. Far at the center of Devos's Lilly played by Sequoia Mizuno an Infosec employees at a whose life is upended. When her boyfriend Sergei mysteriously disappears just after being invited by force to work on devs? The Super Secret Amaya Project. That is forced obsession as she begins her investigation. Everything Lily thought she knew starts to fall. Apart as discovers that Sergei had his share of secrets to so in some ways talking about Davos at this point given it only two of the episodes have been released. Is You know maybe a little bit like talking about annihilation after only watching the first half hour like there's so much about it that is still shrouded in mystery but I think there are nonetheless a lot of interesting things already that we can sort of Glean and talk about interesting like the is is that mean the same thing to you as it does to look my God know. I don't know I'm so I have? I mean there's a lot that I thought was really interesting about this. So so let's let me start a little bit about the most caroline. The most interesting thing is the fucking baby head statue because it was super interesting serious thing where I was going to start but we can definitely talk about that like I guess. One thing I want to start by talking about is is the casting in the sense that like I feel like you know. Maybe I'm giving it too much credit. But maybe there's some thoughtfulness to the casting along racial lines. And so what I mean is like a at you have nick offerman alison pill to white actors in these prominent roles at the head of a Maya right nick offerman as the forest the CEO and Alison Pill as Katy. His sort of enigmatic. Like right hand woman who may in fact be smarter and like be pulling the strings fully yet know what that power dynamic is. I'm like who what that relationship really entirely is. But it's interesting to me that like to me. You know it makes sense that they are white. Because in bay area tech power and fame and prestige and respect and all of this is still consolidated very much among white people but at a Maya like so many of the rank and file people who do the work off of which they you know forest and Katie obviously benefit and profit are people of color and you know and the show I you know again it centers lily or at least. It seems to be centering lily. And other other people of Color in important roles Jin Ha as her her X. Jamie You know and stuff like that. So I don't know I just thought. Well here's a case. Where like it makes sense? You know that these that these particular characters are are white characters because were acknowledging something about the distribution of power in this sphere. It's so interesting about what you just said. Cara is that I found this show really interesting. Nita's term or my my term. I was I was the one who use it. I I think he wanted to offer. You know some some pushback on that but whatever so I found it interesting but also so incredibly frustrating because while I do acknowledge What you're saying about the racial dynamics of the show and I do think that That there is something very smart going on there. Like there's a there's a way in which the show is very self aware and being very deliberate about the kind of tech world that presents though and you're also right that only episodes in we don't quite know how things are going to resolve and how certain things are going to be tied up in. Some things will be left kind of woven into the tapestry. One thing that I've found incredibly frustrating is the way that this show like in so many other shows. I think this is does not tackle any kind of class implication in any sustained way in a way that like I kept asking a question so when you find out where the devs like the top secret. Devs project is located on the campus. I immediately started asking the question I asked whenever I see like a super layer. Because that's what it's GONNA turn out to be which is who built this. Who Cleans it one bullshit? Exactly Sir Fred thank you thank you. I think in like okay. So saved in. That toilet was probably disgusting. And say yeah like and I know that sometimes when you point out a little details like this like okay. You're choosing to focus on like sort of banal trivialities. You know as a way of dismissing the larger picture but I think this is part of the larger picture and so in the same way that Lake Tech Bros. in Silicon Valley now refuse to acknowledge that they live in a city in which there are. There's a broad spectrum of economic need and economic reality. They don't WanNa see the homeless. They don't WanNa see poor people. This show doesn't want to wrestle with the fact that there is a service industry you know. It is okay to show Brown People Asian people at Sarah as long as they are solidly middle class and above and they occupy the professional class. I will push pushback on that slightly Am Not defending the show but I think that there is so one. There's an inherent like we have so much goddamn money that we can build this giant thing so the Labor is a racist but it is also like if you dig one level deeper. You're like obviously this is being built by people. Who are you know service but You're saying you're totally but there there is they do one of the main characters on or one of the supporting characters is. GonNa be the homeless guy that lives in front of Elise Willy's apartment and he was in both episodes. He like his talking a lot. He's going to be a part of it and that I think related to what caroline saying. And what you're saying is interesting because you like a big white dude now representing the homeless population of and I guess like that. That matters absolutely but I'm talking about that invisible labor class right and so I think there's a way in which our very techno feely. Ah which manifests itself and shows like deb's in our star trek which will be talking about on the next podcast demand. Different podcasts not record but sort of demands that we hand wave away a certain kinds of labor because it's ugly right and so and the rationale or the excuses. Oh we've progressed so far. We no longer need humans to perform certain kinds of roles. Because there's something repulsive to us about someone who has to like make our food if it's not like a certain kind of artisanal gourmet food someone who has to clean our toilets. Someone wants to sweep our streets someone else to take the recycling out and I think that's really interesting so I'm excited and hopeful that this show which I think is doing some very smart things will kind of acknowledge that is there but I think our class blindness willful class blindness especially in our media is so pervasive. I have doubts that that will ever pass on adding absolutely and I was and I'm very frustrated by that one homeless character that we get yes because of he I mean. He says like in in that second episode. You know the the kind of turn his his his position you know into a joke right like he he negotiates with Jamie to get money to like never speak to him again and then he and then you know he speaks to Jamie Gan. Then he's like that's exactly the kind of lack of professionalism that resulted in you living life on the streets or whatever it was like no I mean I know you're you're like joking or whatever but fuck that like fuck that. It's not like people are on the streets because they they lack professionalism. I I mean I mean but that is a thing that so many people honestly believe they don't see the systemic causes they don't see any of that shit they they honestly believe that it's like a choice or a character flaw or something like that that people fucking deserve to to you know to be on the street or whatever and I mean t even like treated in that way glibly like you know in passing it really. It really bothered me. Yeah and I mean I. I suspect that this homeless dude. And do we get his name did I. I don't know But he's GonNa wind up being a more integral yes right. So it's maybe not but it's like I would not be surprised if it turns out that this was all part of an elaborate conspiracy and he wasn't actually homeless right and it's like no thinking that as I brought it up. I was like you know I wanna see some service workers. I WanNa see so when forest says to a surrogate lake. We don't bring anything in and we don't take anything out. You know no laptops no nothing. I'm like okay. So who's cooking the food that these people believe you know? I just I mean there's a mechanics of it matter. There's a scene where Katie goes and grabs water out of the fridge. Who put that there? Yeah like who like. It's not like these extremely talented. Programmers are cleaning the toilets. I was really I was also I was like shut the fuck up okay. I want to pull back a little bit. Pullback this show was not good and let me tell you why. So here's the thing is the first episode. I was like I always give first episodes a lot of leniency. When I look through tough like they're not great and whatever and I love Nick Offerman. I had such intense complicated feelings about seeing San Francisco. Like as someone who lived there for a long time and like left before this reason like It was you know these beautiful shots of San Francisco being gorgeous also like the the homeless man sleeping at the doorstep which we've experienced several times living there and the The the bus and then going down to the campus. All of that stuff was just. I was like it. Felt personally like really complicated. Because I feel like I have such a personal relationship to all of what that stands for So there's some interesting stuff there like you know. It's it's an interesting conspiracy to be like these big tech companies have so much fucking money that they can do whatever they want and of course. There's the secret like I was kind of like okay. Fine but like at the end of the day especially after watching both episodes and this season on because this season on his really. What made me be like? This is going to be done. As Roma's balls in. Yeah wow very I take that back anyways. Okay so I- preface all of that. Because I cannot stand the woman in refrigerator. Bullshit I cannot stand the villain trope of the leg deeply personal. I was hurt by a tragedy that happened in my life and therefore I'm going to destroy the world kind of thing and that is one hundred percent. What this story is predicated on? It is the head of a tech company who lost his daughter who lives in the same house and drives a fucking Subaru and made a company named after her with a giant statue of her and literally every time I it hilarious and and the and the The tech that is being built is so he can watch his daughter. Blow bubbles like that's not the end point I mean this is but it's is. It is the intention behind building a machine that proves that there is no free will is so that he can feel justified in that he could not have controlled the death of his. I will that is that is what they're setting up in this narrative. I think that there's going to be a lot more to it than that. I think that so. So the whole thing about Sergei right like bringing Sergei into devs like so so. They knew exactly what was going to happen. Because that's what devs does right it? It reveals it shows that there's that that everything is deterministic et. Cetera ET CETERA. And we know what people are going to do. And we and he knew that Sergei as a Russian spy was GonNa take pictures of the code with his James Bond wristwatch and and all of that and so like so like they got no benefit out of Sergei like that could only be part of a longer game a bigger game to involve lily in some way like to know that lily was going to start an investigation and like so. They're obviously is some benefit to a forest and to a maya to having triggered circuits death and to like whatever they of course lily is going but of course something is. GonNa Happen that proves like will actually does exist. And they're deterministic thing like can't predict everything and and this is the center. He's building a machine that says there is no free will and every night is determined. And so the what you're saying based on the fact that this is what this machine is supposed to be doing. Is that like it doesn't if it's not that they're pulling people in or that the. Sergei thing didn't matter it just validates. Our theory of like things will happen and you can't control them and Sergei was going to do this and we were going to kill him. And then we're going to sit next to some fucking golden pillars and feel bad about murder like you know and so to me it's like there's no point in the show if it just if everything is going to happen how it happened side. What's so something has to happen. Where Lily disrupts your system x great so it just. It's so I don't know it does not look interesting to me like it too like. I think all all your criticisms are totally valid but I also believe that That a a work of fiction can use familiar even even troubling or problematic building blocks and still end up with an interesting result. I mean I mean Into the spider verse right kingpin. And that all he cared about was like going to another multi-diverse or whatever daughter. I loved that movie and I hated that piece. I'm saying of this of course and that's fair but I also don't think it's the entire it may if that's all devs ends up being than spare absolutely but we don't know that that's all the desert gonNA actually end up being. It could just be the building blocks which yes lousy building blocks maybe to choose to start with but nonetheless like it's possible that that. I I think that that something fascinating or good or worthwhile or you know could yet come out of some of what it's doing well. I hope that they improve their technology. So we're not looking at fucking nine hundred ninety s went up but this is real keeper. One hundred I will keep watching this show because I am interested in how things resolved but also like I am delighted by some of the absurdity like I did legit laugh every time I saw that giant statue so funny right and I also laughed that after the huge buildup of Sergei getting to go to devs this incredibly top secret Super Secret Project and then ultimately it's like this is like buzzfeed desks chairs and I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense. You know like you know. Total transparency. Were a team. Whatever but it just it kills me. I would have been like this is it. This is what I had to go through all that shit for. Can we talk a little bit about Zach grenade who plays the head of security? We don't even need to say anything is just. This is the moment every podcast. Ri- shout out of character actor that I just happen to love and I was very happy to see him. Happy to see my my happy character actor in this. Is Stephen Mckinley Henderson? Who Plays Stuart? The old code are working on and And I did. I did want to touch briefly on that conversation. They have that. I alluded to in in in the intro. Text about the era so Stuart this older Dev gets into a bit of an argument with a much younger. Dev because the the younger depth says you know. Oh you're from the era that that says sorry. Sorry Carol. He was referring to the the win. Amp visualization as baby right. Yes yes right. So don't call it baby you know. He's from the era that that get stuff wrong and says stupid shit and like I just thought that was such an interesting moment because I do think that there is at times that A certain arrogance among younger people who think that. Oh the older people have all. This sale was problematic stuff. But they don't see that in all with almost absolute certainty Mike they they will one day be in that role and the younger generations that come after them. We'll have all these ideas and things that reveal that that so much. So many of our assumptions or or their assumptions are are fucked up and wrong and limiting and problematic and will then have to adjust their thinking or or be the the olds. Who just don't get it and like I just think that arrogance is the thing that actually exists and is troubling right like like we all have to be open to like the awareness that we hold a lot of bad Assumptions and things. You know there are things we just don't see but maybe the next generation will see them and so it goes right. I mean I don't know anyway. I just thought it was an interesting and it. Yeah I mean It's interesting that you know the person who plays that character. The older character Is a black man right like it's interesting when you again just the racial implications of this show In the ways that it shows that it's it can be very thoughtful which is not to say unproblematic at all but it can be very deliberate rather run about things. I also just to go back to Akron air for a second. I was wondering about so. The scene in which surrogate is going to like Is in person security screening and says like so your girlfriend's Chinese and the implication being this might be a problem and your Russian and of course Sergei pushes back and says well you know. She's she's third generation. She's American but you're not and then it turns out you think like Oh this guy's being brazen a phobic and racist but then turns out. Sergei actually was up to something like so the message here is that profiling works right. I mean the the show does play with it a bit but I hate when you know shows. Try to like us a character who was meant to be an opposition to our protagonists or one of our protagonists to say something regressive But then the show turns around supports that message because ultimately yeah the the dude would be right to be suspicious of the Russian dude. You know. I'm like okay. Let's go again. We don't know what's happening. We don't know how this is gonNA play out. Maybe surrogate was using his James Bond. Watch for the forces of true and right and whatever but I did think it was interesting given the conversation that happens later as forest is walking. Sergei to devs like the big cube and forces asking Sergei to try and guess what the project is and one of the things that surrogate guests is something having to do with national security and forest with the entirely accurate Hubris of like the Global Colossus Tech giant. That he is says such things. Don't concern me you know and I just thought. Of course they don't because when you achieve a certain level of power and money you don't have to be concerned with things like this Or you think that you're not concerned with notions of identity puny considerations like national boundaries. But you just in fact you know trying to uphold other systems. It is not that you are so far so evolved from these kinds of considerations you have simply picked up an are obsessing over different ones and I just oh God you know the whole lake kooky white tech genius trope. I am so done. I'm so done. You know like when he is eating salad with his fingers meaning. It was hilarious but also like I would've got up and walk the fuck out I am here for for narratives that demonize megalomaniacs for is right. Like I'm okay with the fact that so far. He's not a good person but they are but one nick offerman is really good and like I think he is. I like him as an actor a lot and I think he's playing this role really. Interestingly but I'm wondering how they're gonNA like work to humanize him and stuff and then I'm GonNa take all of what I just said back I want to so I struggle with the show because like there's some things that are smart and like what you're talking about like there's moments that you're like oh interesting. Oh what are you doing here? And then other moments where I'm like. That was the worst dialogue or like that was unnecessary. Exposition or like. The tone is shifting so hard that it like. I'm laughing but I'm like I. I think that this the way that the music is playing out in a particular scene is so funny. Even though it's supposed to be serious I think but it's also funny like I feel like it doesn't quite get itself yet in terms of what it's trying to come across and that I I'm giving a bit of a benefit of the doubt here because Alex Garland's pedigree is pretty good right like comes. Twenty days later ex Machen annihilation like I have issues with all of them but oh but overall they're very well done right especially like X. Mocking We could talk about the politics of that. But the film itself is very well done and the pacing the tone annihilation. You know like I was kind of half and half on it but overall and so I feel like one that he's having a hard time translating from film to television which is a different style of storytelling. And I think that this is on affects and like there are probably a lot of executive notes that are coming in that are really like interfering with grander vision. Potentially so I'm trying to give it some benefit of the doubt because the things that I'm seeing right now feel like the things that I'm struggling with a little amateur to me in terms of what I expect from the film maker in the past you know or what in the past. Yeah I just I don't I don't know what to think One thing I do WanNa bring up and I will try and Find the link so I read a review of the first couple episodes that was published in the Guardian a few days ago and I tweeted about it because one of the things that the reviewers said whilst talking about the performances in the show was that he did not enjoy SONOMA'S UNO's performance essentially. She was non expressive. He wasn't able to read her. He was essentially calling her and his inscrutable Asian. And I just thought you can't possibly not know how this reads you know you. You you reviewer for the Guardian can't possibly have never heard why this particular trope is is problematic but I think it just it points to The ways in which certain conversations we think everyone has had and everyone has acknowledged okay. That's a fucked up thing to say and also you really need to question what you mean when you say like Asians are inscrutable. And you can't read them but clearly I should still happen it and I couldn't believe it and here's the thing. I feel like her performance. I wanted more from it so and not in that way. I think the like you know. Kind of internalized Mode that she was operating in in this sort of quietness of her was really great. I think that they gave her terrible fucking dialogue and that she's just not skilled enough actor yet in the rear to be able to handle horrible dialogue host actors. Can't so it was really. I Really WanNa root for her and I really WanNa like her. And I'm like I'm so pulled out every time you're on screen. Same with like the dialogue between her and Jamie and that Jamie right. Yeah and that relationship like I wanted there to be something more but like just it was really the dialogue between them was so bad that like it felt like different types of there's so many different levels of acting skill in this show and different levels of dialogue written for these characters in ways that we really jarring for me going in out of different scenes. Yeah but but that's that's a different critique right saying that you know but you get it that you can say like boy annoymous had not enough to work with or way too much to work with and unfortunately we don't think that she was able to you know do whatever needed to be done to elevate whatever right versus saying like. I can't read her. I can't Something about this air. This actor of his background in particular. I'm just having a hard Trimbe. Scrutiny her inscrutable. So yeah no totally. Good good call will link that article if you'd like to see a racist Analysis I think I think the writer would probably be completely gobsmacked by someone pointing at like. Hey this is a real fucked up trump. You're engaging in right now I think you'd probably pass them by entirely whatever. Can we also talk about? How Alison Pills? Agent is working overtime. That yeah I'm in is let like getting all the work right now on. All the science shows good for her but also we talk about Alison Pill. Sheryl Sandberg please do. You don't even have anything more to say I just was like. Oh she's drills Amberg. That's what this character is. Character is co-co-co-couple. I don't I'm so here for the the dystopia narratives of evil tech companies anhydrous. This just didn't do it for me. And as they're walking to as they were walking to the bore cube. I was watching with friend and we were like what is it. What could it be? What does it would it like before we get there? What do you think you can be first of all he called it exactly and I was like? Wow that was impressive to me like free will pull the whole thing and I kept. I feel like it's about like unlimited power and then it's going to be like this analogy of like you know like actual like privilege power versus like actually creating power. Whatever so in some ways that is what this is like being able to foresee the future is incredibly powerful thing and then can you tweak it or adjust it or change it would be the next logical thought process in in this But it's just not landing that's just it's so not landing and I might keep watching it but right now I don't I I will keep watching it when I get run. I run out of other things to watch when you run out of. Cw shows. I'M GONNA keep watching it. Because I think that we're going to return to the idea of the multi-diverse in a big way and they're you know there's going to be a multi verse version of surrogate. That comes back and there's GonNa be a chance for forest to go rescue his daughter and just all kinds of other dump stuff but I really love when a show. Let's an actor play a slightly different version of another character. Big Fan of orphan black. I just love it. I love it so I'm here for that and that specifically I want to call out that. The fight scene between the The Russian spy and the handler and And the Security. Guy Was a very realistic looking fight and so I was. That scene bothered me because it was another example of how they're using music to change the tone like like it almost felt comical until it didn't But then I was watching it. I was like Oh this is like real fighting which I appreciate because we have so much like sensationalized really high or a grass with this look like two dudes literally like it looked dirty. It looked awkward. Yeah Yeah like like fighting actually is I. Don't understand the logistics of how he actually killed him. Spoilers like that was gross and disgusting. But also how would you get enough leverage to pull that heart and next? Don't snap that easily. Oh sorry I just I like that. That confused me in a scene. I've heard that secretly is an operative mania our but nobody else get. Hit me up on patriotic. If you thought that you don't want that conversation I say where did he get that? Plastic bag you know not circuit when he was killed. No not that fight the final ordained garage on higher. But he's ahead of him. I'm sorry it was disgusting to my Ding me. I just was like. I don't know how this is physically possible in the way that they're positioned in this moment. It's so not important. You know what people please don't don't hit us up on patriarch. Don't link us to anything. Don't talk about it in a tremendous gate. Just say yes. I agree with the need to hide behind. Spoiler tags some hours it all right any other thoughts on the. I made a note about the When Stewart and the kid in a in front of the win APPs green were talking that the kid is seems to be Gender Queer. A little bit which I appreciated the character's name is Lyndon They haven't been gendered yet on the show and I think I only know their name because I was watching it with subtitles on. I don't think it was ever stepped so that I liked that Can someone please pay? Caroline five hundred dollars to write a piece comparing and contrasting in an eighth group style Silicon Valley devs and catch fire. Please okay sure. All right I mean I'm all for paying caroline to write things. I feel very everyone. Pay Care Right. Yeah somebody hit her up commission her to write this thing. I think there's probably a lot of different things to talk about like the presentation of like technology as a panacea. You know versus. Societal ill you know the likes to mail genius versus a female genius me a little bit because halt and catch fire is so fucking good that. I am feeling a little blasphemed by the fact that I'm not compared these things I said compare and contrast English Essay style. Anyway survey commissioned. Carrots is very smart. All right let's Be Done with this now. Okay Dr just as they don't observe weekends neither do we apparently no but but since you mentioned that real quick I want to say like I did like that. Bit In so in when go into deb's like one of the first things four says to Saturday like we don't acknowledge weekends you can work nights many do etc and it's like it's like these statements of freedom like fused. Yeah but no nobody but but what I liked about it is. It's that freedom that it sounds like freedom but it but it's probably actually like tyrannical like India. And because it like there was something me about that that seems insightful about how bay area to culture actually works like the sense of. Oh you don't need unions. Because we're just like free fun company where you can like work how you want or whatever but like how how that kind of like. Sheen of freedom can actually be very controlling and and exploitative like it reminds me of conversations that I had recently because whatever I was at a game studio and we're talking about how to make a gaming better for women and you know crunch comes up and all the stuff and so anyways Unlimited vacation policy is something that a lot of tech companies are taking on. So it's not just two weeks it's like you can have as much time as you want. And what happens is exactly what you're talking about Carol where nobody takes off at all because it feels like you are abusing the system or that if you're not working twenty four seven and crunching and doing being there all the time. Then you're not a good employee and so if you took three weeks holy Shit you're right you know. You're you're not as dedicated you know with the point of unlimited vacation policy is that there is freedom to take the breaks that you need to take as you need them to be the best that you can be indebted up but like that's the reality is that if management doesn't really encourage and support communities sorry support a culture that encourages rest and relaxation. And all of that. It's not going to happen. And then you have people who never take time off. So are you. Yeah you know stuff. Yeah like weeps. This applied to you too because we had unlimited vacation. You neither of you ever took it better. I remember sometimes I had to when we were working too hard. I remember like do not work on Friday. Will part of the issue is? Mrs Related is that I worked from home. I worked remotely a large part of the time. And you do fall into that trap where you feel as if if I was working in an office it would be nine to six and I would leave and I would be fine with that but I don't want my boss to think I'm not dedicated or that you know. I'm taking advantage. Some answer these emails at ten pm just because I can because I've been on my laptop I'll say no I'm not getting. Capitalism becomes most effective when you internalize those pictures right. So you've never said to me like hey it'd be nice. If you were reachable. At all hours of the fucking day in fact she would say the opposite but internally I'd be like Oh for sure. Let me. Just enter these three email. I think it's also different to where giant tech companies There's more What's the word duplication of of something? You know what I mean like we were saying. Yes Sir Thank you. We were so small that it did feel like we have to plan for one of us not being around or whatever. I don't know why we're talking about this. But think that there. Carolyn your point about how they talk about that. And the is so related to the actual culture of the how they talk about work hours so related to the actual culture of how these companies operate yet and it's so nefarious to write because under the guise of making things easier for you to work for them. They'll be like hey you decide you're gonNA work nights for US great so we know that You could spend more time working if you didn't have to leave to go to the gym because we know that you like going to the gym right. So we'll have an on campus gym and also we've got an on campus smoothie bar whatever you're spending more and more time and you think well. God My company has been so great as to build this gem for us. I'm GonNa do for them so maybe I would actually even use that Jim. But it suddenly becomes your whole life your whole identity and you are subsumed into the corporate body and a very real way in. It's just fucking gross. Super Girls all right. We'll be right back with our weekly freak outs. Hey Friends Caroline here. If you enjoy listening in on our conversations each week about what's happening in the world of media and pop culture and how that impacts our larger culture please head on over to patriots dot com slash FEM freed and help us keep bringing f f are to you Nelson talk about. What's been thrilling US moving? Ask UPSETTING US OR INFURIATING. Us This past week evidence. You got somethin' lined up for US I do so I have been Rereading the ones that I've already read and discovering new the ones that I hadn't read a favourite series From Baby Ibanez childhood the Earth series by Ursula Kayla Glenn Iconic science fiction author author of classics like the left hand of darkness and the dispossessed but also the earth see series. The I believe I two or three of which were made into just an ass backward fucked up completely bullshit. Sci-fi channel adaptation and which unsurprisingly because people are trash the people color in the book like they are explicitly. Brown people were somehow white adaptation. Let's all go and my girl Ursula plus all the real fans were like this is fucked up. That adaptation went absolutely nowhere. 'cause you're like we don't want it Anyways it is. It has been a revelation to be reminded what really thoughtful science fiction can be like Particularly Science fiction that takes it as a matter of course or rather I should say I'm saying science fiction but I really mean fantasy in the sense because the Earth's series is set in a pre industrial land archipelago in which magic is real. You know there are no huge large cities. As I say it's pre-industrial whatever but rather than the kind of Tolkien ask you know kind of pro European version of it as I say everyone is Brown Brown black. You know it's fantastic and it's just as a matter of course it is not you know Robin Hood's Merry Band with like Morgan Freeman as one loan. You know you know. Just holding things down Everyone is Brown gloriously browde. It's someone cross-stitch that for me. Everyone is Brown. It's phenomenal so please. Check out This series if you are at all inclined and I'm not giving the best recommendation here but it really is a big win was just a phenomenal phenomenal writer. First Book is a wizard Diversey so check it out so we forget about caroline. What are you freaking out about? Sonic just got a little fun funding this week. So I listened. There's a podcast called reply all which I've never list. Yes for but but this week like the latest episode. Just it got shared a lot on my twitter timeline. People were like wow. This episode is like really interesting fascinating really great and I listened to it and it is a really fun and fascinating episode so episode one fifty eight of reply all is called the case of the missing hit. And what this episode is about is This man contacts One of the hosts of the show reply all and is like the and basically his dilemma. Disguise dilemma is that he remembers a song from the nineties that he heard on the radio but unlike like any other hit song from the nineties which type some lyrics into google. Or you're gonNA find a video on youtube you're gonNA find. The lyrics are going to find that the song actually existed like absolutely basically nothing like no record whatsoever on line of this song having existed and so it like the guy kind of becomes obsessed with this like. How do I remember this song? Unlike he remembers it in detail he remembers the melody. He remembers lyrics. He really remembers it. And yet can't find evidence that the song actually even existed. And so then the the host one of reply all kind of launches this whole interesting investigation into trying to find out like what is going how where did this. How did the song just disappear like what is this song? And he talks like all these music critics and producers and other musicians and you know people flow theories and so it gets into stuff about like our relationships to music and how are minds working how some people suggest that well maybe his mind kind of like fused parts of different songs into one song. That never really actually existed. But he thinks it did or maybe. It's an elaborate hoax. Sky Made up his own song and his and his like fast one on the host of reply all and like all these like an interesting kind of theories and ideas about how about what the case could be and and so it just becomes this really fascinating kind of almost detective story trying to figure out what happened and and you know and it has a pretty satisfying payoff in the end. I would say but it's also like the journey is just fascinating like So Yeah Really Fun. Engaging podcast episode Just like I mean. Can you even imagine like like remembering a song? And but like nobody else does. And like how how surreal that would be like the way it would make you feel about your own memory and everything so anyway. Yeah checking out the case of hit. I want to know the resolution of this right now but I also WANNA listen to the podcast. Don't skip don't skip to the end. If you listen to it and I am pleased. Everyone because the the way they're gets and again as all kinds of fascinating theories ideas about about the music industry about again how our memories work. How are minds process music and so lots of really interesting stuff woven into this thing? That's also just this fun kind of like I find kind of investigative adventure Evans. The kind of person that's GonNa Wikipedia. That Shit She. She loves SPOILERS SPOILERS. I I literally wouldn't be typing this right now but I'm not going to listen to the podcast on my way home from this dude today the stewed. Yeah this dude. I was like what are. That's how this don't ask me questions if you don't want the answers. My freak out is actually thanks to Ebony. Being his In January Ebony sent me a link and told me to apply to a thing and that thing is called the women's weekend film challenge. Yeah and the idea. Is that a bunch of professional filmmakers in In Film and Television. And what have you get together for a weekend and make a film in a weekend and so I was like? I don't know I don't know if I can do this. Maybe these women know what they're doing and I don't know but I've been talking about wanting to get more traditional filmmaking so I was like whatever fuck it all apply so the way it works is that four. They had four hundred submissions. Actually a back up a little bit. They started in New York and so they've done it for. I believe two years in New York and then they came to L. A. This year to do it as well so they had four hundred submissions from women in La. To be a part of this and they had to distill it down to two hundred and they put us in sixteens and the teams are entirely women filmmakers from across every every aspect of filmmaking and so We got the genre. That is what we're making our film out of that. They give to us at six PM on Thursday night and then we have to deliver a film by Sunday at midnight. And it's wild and it was such a lovely experience like working one. It's a great opportunity to meet other filmmakers and folks who work in the industry that are women and encouraging more More hiring of women You know people on my team I already know are working together on projects. I are already got invited to work on something. But I wasn't in town should be able to do that like you build this sort of like solidarity with each other and it was like In every every set there will always be problems. The things come up that are unforeseen and just watching everyone who has literally never met each other just like flow with it and figure it out and solve the problems and create a thing right a create a short film There's there's always this question of like how is it? GonNa turn out and I was so happy with ours really good. I don't think I can't show it yet. Because I think everyone is now submitting to festivals in that sort of thing but if it does become available online at some point I hear it and I think there's a sizzle reel of all of them so I will share that as well. But it's going to keep an eye out if you are interested in this kind of thing or even there's lots of weekend film challenges that happen in general where people come together and make a mini documentary or a short film. So keep an eye out for that. I was also really pleased with how racially diverse the the groups were In terms of you know it started by two white women. There's definitely bill as as as we have been in the space for a long time. There's definitely the fear that that won't be top of mind and so I did appreciate that and I did appreciate how varying skill levels and experience levels. Were of everyone. Ray Like the art director on our project. It in our team was very experienced. Like she just Kinda did this because she's like it might be cool to like do a project help other folks get into the industry and that sort of thing that she did not need to be doing this to like ramp up her career. What so that was really cool to to have that variety awesome. Yeah and we had a screening of all of the film so we got to go to the ARC light in Hollywood and watch every once in a giant theater you know some of the actors on my set had never seen themselves on a big screen before. Yeah it was really cool. It was really really cool. So yeah you know I part of this freak out is also like I did something that was a little bit scary and a little outside of my comfort zone and I didn't know if I could do it and I didn't know if like what that would mean and so like I just encourage folks to sometimes try to do things a little bit differently even if it makes you not differently but try new things Even if it makes you feel a little scared because that's how you grow so it is awesome so thank seventy of course and if anyone next life advice for not take avenues advice. She made it just told you that it was. You know core. Let me help you live your lives people all right well. Why don't we quick segue into our guest freak out this week from Arianna? Hi everyone for a while. I've been freaking out about this book. Series called the Raven cycle by Maggie. Steve Water it's a series of four books. Starting with the Raven Boys. It covers a group of kids who are searching the tomb of a dead Welsh king to make all their dreams come. True and in the meantime stumbled across a few different mysteries. That could Kinda change everything. They know it It's a fantasy series but it covers fantasy and completely different way than what we're used to Folklore and urban legend and Ley lines and kind of the old idea of fairies and fairy tales and dreams rather than elves and dwarfs It has some really strong and independent female characters which is great and even a queer couple. So that's the raven cycle by Maggie. Steve Order Awesome. Thank you so much for that. I always want new book series to read and magical are fantasy but not so. I'll definitely check that out. You can submit your own freak out at feminist frequency dot com slash. Fm Freak. Thank you so much for listening to feminist frequency radio. Just a quick announcement is that we're going to take a short break and we will be back with all new episodes starting on April Eighth. But in the meantime you better stay tuned for the frequent after party which is only available to backers of this podcast. Learn more at peachtree on dot com slash. M Freak you can find US everywhere. Great podcasts are found. And if you haven't yet go to itunes and subscribe rate and review US and also. Why don't you follow us on? Twitter Instagram? And all the social media's at them freak the show's engineered by route para curious Simpson provides technical support artwork. By Jamie Darren and our intro music is by Phil Circus. Join US April eighth for another feminist dive into pop culture. Thanks for listening.

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Top 10 Original Netflix Movies | The Big Picture

The Big Picture

1:50:12 hr | 6 months ago

Top 10 Original Netflix Movies | The Big Picture

"Today's episode of the big picture on the Ringer podcast network is brought to you by world central kitchen. Their relief team is working across America. To safely distribute individually packaged fresh meals and communities. That need support there now. Serving tens of thousands of meals daily and some of our biggest cities like la. And they're launching initiatives across America to deliver fresh hot meals to hospitals and clinics fighting on the frontlines while keeping local restaurants and businesses. Well you can directly help. The heroes hospitals and clinics were fighting for US. And you can help. Keep your local restaurants alive. Please go to the ring. Dot Com Slash W. C. K. To donate we're trying to raise two hundred and fifty thousand dollars if you have the means. It's an unbelievably great and useful. 'cause it helps our hospital heroes. Emergency workers and local restaurants. Please give whatever you can. The money goes directly to world central kitchen. And it's a charitable donation once again. That's the ringer dot com slash W. C. K. I'm Sean Fantasy. I'm amended ovens. And this is the big picture a conversation show about net flicks and specifically their movies later in the show. We have a returning champion. Alex Garland the writer Director Behind big-picture Favorites X. Makina elation really admired his fx TV series. Dev so much that I want to speak with them about it. So I hope you'll stick around for that but first during quarantine. Netflix has risen high above. Its competitors earlier this week. We talked about the way molly's game as we entered the movie consciousness when it showed up on the streamer then on a quarterly earnings. Call this week. The service reported that while sixty five million people watched the social media phenomenon tiger king. More than eighty five million people watched the netflix original mark. Wahlberg Film Spencer confidential. That movie has a lot of the same issues. That so many of these netflix originals have. It's got weird pacing an odd tone. There's a sense that it's only about eighty percent done but the movie business has been leaning in Netflix. His direction for the past five years culminating earlier this year in a record number of Academy award nominations for its films. The Irishman Marriage story an American factory. Since the crow virus pandemic began. Athletes is the only studio able to release new movies every single week. This weekend sees the release of extraction and Old School Action Thriller Starring Chris Hemsworth Produced By vendors and game directors. Joe and Anthony Russo. So just five years since their first feature film two thousand fifteen species no nation. We got to thinking what goes into the net flicks films hall of Fame Amanda Before We Start Building that hall of fame out. Let's talk a little bit about what it means to be a netflix original movie. And and why were even talking about this in the first place? What do you think when you think netflix original? I think one of two things. I think celebrated filmmaker making a deeply personal story on a budget far larger than usually he would be able to get at a traditional studio and or I think a cheaply made rom com or other genre film targeted to kids who otherwise is watching youtube. Yeah I think that's close to accurate. Now something has happened. Which is that. The net flicks is ramped up production so much that we do actually now get more than that. That isn't the totality of the netflix original films. Experience and I've been turning over in my mind kind of what to do about this like what. It's like to have a new movie every week that I know. A lot of people are going to be watching but somehow feels not totally worthy of deep analysis. You know what I mean. They are airplane movies. Essentially when we can't go on airplanes they are movies that are easy to watch and bring joy and bring enjoyment and I. I just asked me to be reductive so I was reductive. Sometimes you gotTA give people the poll quote but I don't actually mean to be reductive either to some of the films. That are debuting on Netflix. And many of the great films we're GonNa Discuss later on this podcast and also to the idea of making things that people want to watch and making things that people don't need to think about too hard because that's hard to do and also the mechanism and the technology and the making it easy in the practical sense people to watch things which Netflix has really figured out above and beyond every other service and Lord knows that people need it now as much as ever so it is. It's different than going to movie theater. We have said that a thousand times but there is something a both about the experience that affects how you watch the movie and it does seem increasingly like how the movie is made to fit the viewing experience. I think that's right I. Let's go back to peace of no nation so that movie feels like it was made three hundred years ago. It's only five years since it came out the cary Joji Fukunaga's story about A child soldier in a warring African Nation Idris. Elba actually appears in the film. He talked about him earlier this week. On Mali's game I don't think piece of no nation is a very successful movie. It certainly is feels like an important film. And it's got a lot of style and Fukunaga as we know is very talented and has an incredible vision. I found. I haven't revisited the movie since I came out but I remember thinking. Wow this feels weirdly unfinished. And it's interesting that that became kind of a trademark of not all of their films. Obviously I would never say that marriage story feels unfinished anyway. But even some of their more prestigious projects feel like they just got to that final level of that final stage of the notes process on a movie and then just stopped. What it you know. It's funny that we did Molly's game earlier this week. Which was not a Netflix produced movie. It's a movie. That's just found a second life on Netflix. But it's the same feeling of there is no one in the room telling the people know. Or maybe we should rethink this or there is but you don't get that third or fourth or last round of of notes and input and I think that's been appealing to a lot of filmmakers. I think that's how netflixing gotten a lot of very high caliber artists to work with them. Is that you have a a lot of money and probably a bit more freedom than you might at other places but it is true that you can often feel that freedom. Now it's true and I think they essentially netflix tried to deploy the same strategy that they did with House of cards which is bringing strong. Well no names tell stories that feel like they are of great import to draw attention to drop press for folks like us. It's kind of media CATNIP. You know I think if they had launched with set it up even though set it up is wonderful and I'm sure we'll talk about it here on the show. They probably would have earned the reputation of a less than serious movie house. Because movies like that or just as you know better than anybody just not taken as seriously set it up as much better movie than piece of no nation far superior but I think as an opening gambit I understood what they were going for. And it's interesting to watch the life cycle of the prestige movie inside the Netflix Train. As opposed to something a little bit. More crowd-pleasing I would say what are some hallmarks of the movies? Aside from the kind of like Ooh they almost got their aspect of it. When you think of them we'll specifically for the movies that aren't Martin. Scorsese or a noah. Baumbach movie there there are some stylistic patterns for me. I've really started noted noticing there are there are fast cuts and shorter scenes. And you can just tell that. There is something in the pacing of these movies. That is trying to hold your attention. That knows that you're at home. That knows you have your phone in your hand. The knows that. Someone's in the other room asking you for something and just keeps quite literally drawing your eye back to the screen every five seconds. Now I have no room. You know evidence to that fact but I could swear to you that somewhere there is the document that is like here is how to make sure that eyeball stay on your screen and that is applied to many of those movies. There are also. I find that there are a lot of Drone shots establishing locations. Advan are not explored anywhere else in the movie. That's you know and otherwise a lot of interiors and there is a a budgetary quality to some of the other movies that the the Non Prestige movies that you know you can tell that. They're being thrifty. How about that what else? What am I forgetting? Well I think that there is and we saw this in Spencer confidential and you see this a lot of the like quote unquote adult movies. They tend to be these. These genre mutants you know you get like a crime movie and a love story but also a horror movie but also Something more suspenseful. You know all kind of jumbled together yeah it feels like the descriptions the the net flicks categories subscriptions that are generated by the algorithm that get like increasingly mad. Libya specific based on the fact. That you you know. I get like plucky British heroines from nineteen twenty three to nineteen forty two who are also solving crimes. And I'm like is anyone else in the world reading this but it seems like they took those genre titles and then just like actually made movies out of them. Yeah I have a similar experience. Of course mine is more like would you like to watch road to perdition for the eighth time because you like films about disturbed assassins But yeah I mean that's the algorithm ICK attack that it puts on you and I wonder if when they assign these. These original films are essentially trying to build in as many different categories as possible to serve as many different people into that algorithm as possible. Which I guess makes sense and I think it's probably pointless to be Catholic about genre. I don't think it neces- I don't think great genre movies are great. Because they're in Asia. I think they're great because of the stories that they tell there is something always slightly confusing to me whenever I fire up one of these movies though. So is this a western or is this a rom com like what direction are leaning tend to think that the most successful films are the ones that are the most clearly defined. There's a lot of different subcategories here. Obviously Netflix. Obviously has had incredible success with their documentaries. Both their series and their films I tend to think that they operate in there obviously run by different departments and they operate in a different way. So there's not as much confusion so I don't want to say American factory doesn't know what it is. American factory knows exactly what it is. There's also something that we should know. Which is that. Not every single film. That we'll talk about here. Went through the development process at Netflix is actually been very savvy about swooping in saving projects. Or you know recovering projects from other studios whether they're in the development phase whether the pre production phase whether already completed now there have been bad versions of that. I'm thinking of the cloverfield paradox. Steer I do remember that. I remember because it was announced during the Super Bowl. Is that right and I think that was a year that we were all watching the super bowl at my home and I was sitting on the floor and we watch the commercial and then all of us are like well guess we gotta make content now. That is what happened was it. The Eagles Superbowl was it. The year before that I think it was the year before that because it was the year before that because I was not making any other content video and my husband after the Super Bowl I mean. That's I'm Netflix. Had A relationship with paramount where they were as paramount was going through this transition in leadership they were scooping up a lot of discarded projects. They're still doing that. They picked up the lovebirds. That was supposed to come out. I believe this Friday was supposed to be the release date for the lovebirds April twenty fourth. And they've now moved it to May twenty second and frankly probably a lot. More people are going to see the love birds. Because it's going to Netflix. Now would we judge the lovebirds part of the Netflix Movie Hall of fame? I don't know we should probably go through that a little bit when we talk. 'cause triple frontier is similarly a saved movie but it was financed by Netflix. So because they don't you dare take triple frontier off the table. Let me just let me just state that out. Right now And I don't want to regurgitate too much this conversation that you and I were having all through the fall of last year but there is this now fascinating balance that the studio is trying to execute on the one hand twenty eighteen. You had this huge breakthrough with set it up all the boys I've loved before I don't know the numbers on those movies. We don't know how much they can be relied upon but certainly in our lives and the lives of men and women much younger than us. There seemed to be a lot of interest in those movies. And those kinds of movies and a real turn into the ROM COM teen drama approach to studio filmmaking. On the other hand the Prestige awards play is still very much in motion. If you look at the slate of movies that they have coming and if you look at the aftermath of Roma the Irishman Marriage story CETERA etcetera. There's a clearly a huge desire to win. Best Picture at Netflix. And who can blame them? Everybody wants to win best picture. It's not to say that those things can exist together but weirdly. As more streamers come forward we just saw yesterday? Hbo Max was announced and Peacock is going to be available to everybody in probably within the next couple of months and the criterion channel exists and all these other streaming services that were using Amazon prime. Hulu you kind of have to have like a mini identity. Do you think that Netflix? Because it is so big and so powerful that it's the one streamer that is kind of exempt from that question. That's sort of like well. What kind of stuff do you make at this point? Yes I think they just have such a lead and again that behavior habits are so ingrained that people just think well. I'll on Netflix. That they can be the place where there's a new ridiculous reality show. That people are texting about every week. I think this week it's it's Outer Banks. According to texts that that Bill Simmons has sent me yes not a reality show scripted. Oh is it okay? Well that's great. Apparently this the stars still have instagram pages. That my friends like to spend a lot of time on so that's great. They have a reality star level investment but a show that is not a prestige show. How about that and a place where you too hot to handle is the less serious right now. Yeah and it can also have a big top action movie like extraction which starring Chris Hemsworth. We're going to talk a bit about. And then it can also have the beloved like well-crafted. Indie move is that I have to search for for five minutes before I can find them even though they are Netflix. Originals and Netflix spent like a lot of money relatively making and Promoting these so I think because for so long just had a monopoly and we had expected it to have everything and its identity was it. Has Everything like you will never be able to watch everything that is on net flicks It can get away with a lot more but at the same time. I do think it has everything. Identity means that people may be. Don't expect as much quote like serious important prestige content from it. I think that's right. It's been interesting to watch them. Navigate the twelve month calendar releases. I mean releasing a new movie. Every single week is an is on-scene insane task and they've been doing it. You mentioned those small indie movies two weeks ago. Probably the biggest movie release of the weekend. Aside from trolls world tour was tiger tail. Allan Allan Yang's Very personal story about his parents and itemizing that they're still making those movies. It's fascinating that simultaneously. They're making extraction within two and releasing them within two weeks of each other. That's not something that universal or paramount is doing right now but I will say at Tiger tail is what I was thinking of when I really had to go. I think I typed in. I know I had to pass tiger because it kept serving me tiger king and then searching for it but meanwhile let me tell you that. I've had many extraction ads and or I guess I've had like preview content. I'm not because I don't know whether they're advertising it yet but I've also just had like a thousand. It seems like every other thing I'm served is the Post Malone still from Spencer confidential apparently so now it's thinks I am as soon as which I guess is awesome. Thank you net flicks for believing that I care the Post Blown Spencer confidential. I'm going to watch it like netflix potential. And that's great so it's it is I- mired in a way they contain multitudes I think the net flicks thumbnail photo is an entire episode of the big picture. That will have to do sometime but yeah I I'm interested in how they're parceling this stuff out just this week on the same day releasing a documentary called circus of books which is about the titular bookstore. Circus of books that was opened in Silverlake for many years which is a very famous Lgbtq haunt in L. A. and they're also releasing a movie called the Willoughby's which is an animated movie kits. Can I just say Ben getting a lot of emails about the Willoughby's and every time I think it's a British period drama and then I click on it and they get me every time and I was so pissed off anyway? Please make a mini series about upper class. Family named the Willoughby's and I'll watch it. There's so many different kinds of things that they can do. An are doing that. It's actually overwhelming. And I think I'm simultaneously taking some things for granted and also exasperated by some of these movies but extraction is an interesting one to me because on paper. It's not only a movie that I'm very interested in. It's a movie. That should be quite good. So it's directed by Sam Hargrave. Whose worked in stunts for a long time. Who's pretty talented filmmaker? And if you watch the movie you can see he's got he's got some moves. Chris Hemsworth on the heels of his triumphant. Thor experience after all the marvel movies and the Russo brothers who wrote and directed the biggest movies of all time and this is their follow up. And it's a story about a man who has the save a child from a drug gang and goes through hell and back and kills a great number of people to carry this child to safety. I don't think I'm spoiling anything by saying that. The the reason to watch the movies to watch Chris Hemsworth shoe people in the face. I mean it is an absolutely brutal Listrik affair and in the head a lot of heads. Exploding from a single bullet shot which you you can definitely say. It's quite violent. Yeah it's immensely violent and you know that I like violent movie but I was. I'm trying to figure out who this movie is for now. Like on the one hand is a lot of people in video games right now. It's a lot of call of duty going out in the world. Certainly got a call of duty vibe. The movie itself has got a lot of like tracking shots or quote unquote tracking shots with that are stitched together. Digitally that make it seem like you're in a POV video game which strategy we talked a lot about when nine hundred seventeen came out remember nineteen seventeen. That was a movie that wise. I thought you were going to say a strategy. We talked a lot about when gem and came out and I was like you talked a lot about it and I ran away in a parking lot. How much of extraction did you get through? I watched the whole thing. I feel I feel my experience of watching extraction is really telling and it's also how. I know that I think actually extraction works or is effective so I knew you're doing this podcast and I had to the preview for attraction so I think I decided one night this week was like six thirty normally when we dinner and and and I was like feeling a little under the weather nothing. Nothing drastic just normal human under the weather and so. I made a deal with my husband where like I would watch extraction and he would cook dinner. Great deal for me and our houses are open floor plans so he could kind of be in the kitchen and hear what's going on and maybe watch part of it and he could participate after cooking dinner and about forty five minutes into extraction. We had completely switched roles and I was finishing up dinner which is fine. He cooked dinner. I don't want to take away credit for him. But it was like the simmering phase and I was monitoring the simmering and Zach was on the couch just being like Joe every single time like someone died and he watched the whole thing he would like update me on plot or he would just yell like someone just shot someone in the head like you know over the cabinet and and we watched the whole thing and he was like. I had a good time. So I think that's extraction his four and he kept saying it just it feels. I think a lot of people are going to like this. The action is convincing enough and the the story. Line is like unbelievably predictable. Is The dumbest movie watcher in America? Shot every twist coming every single one. But that's okay because it felt familiar competent enough that like we enjoy watching. I had pretty much. The same experience to me was a perfect second screen movie because anytime the movie part of it was happening. The plot the story line I was like I don't care I'm looking at my ipad but as soon as a I heard gunfire. I was locked in and fascinated by what they were doing. I thought Matt Singer screencrush had a very perceptive note in a piece of hero today. Which is that. This is kind of the ultimate netflix movie. Because if you don't want to endure the kind of mediocrity of the storytelling you could just fast forward directly to the incredible twelve minute shootout sequence. That happens thirty four minutes into the movie and feel like you had a cool experience. Can you just without spoiling anything? Which one is that? It's essentially when Chris. Hemsworth gets his hands on the kid and Thames. Yes cow was really intense. Yeah Okay Yeah Yeah I mean it's amazingly well done and and riveting and so so violent I. I can't overstate how violent is. But you know it's largely feels like it's all one shot. It's definitely not one shot. But if that's the sort of thing that you like reminded me a lot of returning to scenes from the raid on Youtube. You know like I don't personally feel the need to return to the raid again and again. Because it's like it's a coup re really really excellently made action movie but the story is not for me but there are sequences in that movie that I love and I'm fascinated and I love to try to figure out how they made it and this is the same thing like Netflix. Has its own little version of the raid fight sequences so interesting interesting film for these times. I can't say I wanted like an all out bloody warfare extraction film but with us what we're getting. It's not what I would turn on on on my own time and you know Netflix. Offer me a lot of other options to watch but convincing I was like oh I guess the people who like these things will really like this. Yeah I agree. The other thing that we heard off that call yesterday was that Net flicks that has filmed all of their twenty twenty slate. Which means that all the movies including the prestige movies. Some of which we talked about in our anticipated movies pods some of which we talked about an early. Oscars Pot are theoretically going to happen on time that includes spike. Lee's the five bloods that includes Ron Howard's hillbilly allergy. That includes I'm thinking of ending things. Fischer's Manque that includes George Clooney movie the midnight sky like there's a lot of stuff that Netflix has in the hopper. That is going to keep this podcast full of gasoline and frankly I'm thrilled about it because I don't think I could talk about Warner Brothers. Decision to put scoop straight to Vod. I know I don't know how many kids movies we can be unkind to. Yeah I bless them I mean I think even when we were talking about the Oscars podcast you and I. I don't know whether it was intentional. But we picked a lot of netflix movies. And I think that there was a reason for that they are uniquely well positioned to get through this crisis and I am grateful to have those movies and you know. Hopefully that everyone who works on those movies and works on epilepsy. Productions is also supported and can get through it as well but listen. Give me give me some new stuff that you actually spent money and time on. I'M IN WE'RE GONNA be in the hall of fame shortly but first. Let's hear a word from bill. Simmons who hates Bill Simmons? I just wanted to make sure you're listening to podcasts. On spotify say do I search for your favorite podcasts? On spotify Apple. They have a library over seven. Hundred fifty thousand podcasts. At this point. So let's say you're searching for the Bill Simmons Past Rewatch Moser. Dave Chang shower. Bench voted the ringer and fell. Show once you find them. Click on the follow. But that's as subscribe then. Click on those letters near the top of the APP. That say podcasts. You can't miss it all the PODCASTS. You're following will pop up separated by episodes downloads. Shows Way to get better at spotify. You can adjust the speed of the pods to seven. Different speeds zero point five times. The slowest actually sound drunk at zero five. Listen Service you can get drunk bill. You can also do zero point eight times one point two times. Which is my favorite. Everyone's sense that cup of coffee. You can do one point five times you can do two times and if you're completely insane you three times. Here's that sounds like. Why would you do that? I think that's how we communicate with aliens anyway. Spotify ZAP connects directly to many of the best to automobiles in the world. It even as a car play feature. That's pretty cool. It's really really good. Best bonds free download spotify any device and you are good to go look. I don't WANNA option but you should actually be embarrassed if you listen to podcasts spotify. And if you don't believe me listen to jump. Bell Zero Point five speed. Tell drug bill the Bell Civis podcast. Listen on spotify okay. We're back a man that we've built hall of fame before we're GONNA build another one. Some say this is premature. There's only been five years worth of movies from Netflix. But there has been hundreds of movies. The wikipedia page for netflix original films. Which I returned to often. Because I'm a sad man is is quite populists. There's a lot going on there and what I try to do is basically pull out either films that you and I have talked about on this show or that we would have talked about if we were doing the show and they were released or just that felt like they were big enough to be observed by the culture at large. You know not just consumed at home so some of them are frothy. Most of them are fairly high minded. We're going to go through every movie and we're going to decide whether it's Inter out you may recall the blood sport that we engaged in on the Tom. Hanks Hall of fame in which we left out saving private Ryan and I was roundly castigated for that. I'm sure there will be a version of that. Here let me ask you one thing. Somebody on twitter asked me if we should leave. Roma the Irishman in marriage story out of the hall of fame because they deserve their own wing. And they're so obvious because they're so great that they're not almost not worthy of this conversation. I have an opinion about this. But what do you think? Well it wouldn't be a true hall of fame at the same time it's not like we're making literal plaque that we're putting up on sunset. You know this is it. It may be early to do this but also we can change it anytime we want. Because this is a podcast and we've got some time so I was going to ask you whether you thought we should limit directors to one movie per list interesting. I you know you have a there are a couple of bombecks on this long list that you have here. There are a couple of scores. Stacy's on this long list that you have here and I do think should be representatives. We shouldn't just load it with the same directors by I also just think constraints make it more fun like I'm already ready to fight with you. So and that's what this podcast is about right. This is me being like I hate you. So let's just give away three spots and make it interesting not give away just like let's. Let's DO Roma Irishman. Mary story there on. We know they're on wor greed we started with consensus and friendship and now we only have seven spots and it gets it gets real perfect Encapsulation of this show. Is We get ten seconds for Friendship and twenty five minutes okay? I'm on board. I agree with you. I think there's no reason to to cull Roma Irishman and marriage story out of the list. They have to be in their incredible. And I agree with you. I think your rules are good idea. I think one film per filmmaker is a is a good rule. Caja say one thing Roma what a movie. We haven't talked about it in like a year. Tremendous stuff yeah great film. That's all it stood no chance to invest picture. I know but what we thought it did and also I loved it. I was really moved by thinking a lot about the time I got to go to Mexico. City I'd walk around Rome and how wonderful that was and I hope that we can all join together in cinema and also traveling to places so that's actually an interesting thing to discuss. If Roma was released in twenty twenty and our opinions and attitudes about net flicks word. They are now as opposed to where they were in two thousand eighteen. And then when I say we I mean frankly the academy and the people who decide on the Oscars. Do you think it would had a better chance to win. No I don't I I do think that it. I think number one parasite already one and I don't mean to again. I'm I'm assessing the academy rather than espousing. Their views are espousing. What I'm about to say but I think once parasite Wednesday and the Academy voters think. Okay we have. We've done the Non English language film. We can move on to other things that I think. That's why when we did our Oscar podcast. I think there's it's going to be like a really Hollywood. Celebratory Year because they've they WANNA pat themselves on their on their backs so in that sense. I don't think it works. I also just think parasite is More contemporary and accessible in ways that I mean Rome is a hard not difficult in that. It's hard to watch a black film that it's hard to watch subtitles. But it's like emotionally very challenging. The classic scene is just really really wrenching. So now they're parasite is in wrenching but there is like a per pulse of nature to it so I you know. I think we just have to be glad that Roma was released in his in this fame. Okay Roma Irishman Marriage story done. That's three of ten. I don't know why listed these films in this order. You'll forgive me. The first film that I wrote after those three was shirker. Sandy Tans Twenty eighteen documentary of self-discovery. The story of a movie that he made that was lost for years that she rediscovered. Do you ever watch this movie? I did I watched it this week. Because you put it high on this list which I knew your subconscious thought it was great this movie rules. I'm really sorry that I didn't watch it earlier. And I watched it by myself and then like walked into saks off. Sometimes you gotTa Watch this. This is like the most Zach. My husband movie of All Time I. I'm happy to give it a spot now and if we need to move it let's move it but this tremendous. I don't I honestly don't know why. Put it so high but it definitely stuck with me and worked on me in a big way now. Obviously in many ways. It's a little bit. About what you were just describing. It's kind of a. It's a story about creation and about ownership and about who you were and who you are and you know it's documentary but it has almost like a dream like quality at times really really well made If people haven't seen shirkers would I highly recommend I? I don't know if I could recommend a movie more on the service that hasn't been talked about nearly as much but okay. We'll hold a place for shirkers right now Happy as Lazaro which is Alex Cora walks rockers film is very good. It probably was a little bit overlooked last year. I don't think it's like her masterpiece. She strikes me as a person who were GONNA be talking about in the future in the best international feature category. Probably the I know. A lot of people in the business are very into her right now. this struck me as like a not quite this. Also destruct me as a very big ask on a home watch not again not because of of subtitles. Subtitles are actually great to watch at home. Because then you have to look at your screen. I find that I'm like far more engaged. But just there is. There is like What's going on mystical quality to it and it does have that kind of like an an event you go to the movie theater. And you're going to experience something else and kind of find that just like stumbling happy as as are maybe is not the right situation which to watch it. I agree this was. This was a film that premiered Canon Twenty eighteen and eventually made its way to the service last year. So you know it's sort of an acquisition. It wasn't developed inside the studio et Cetera. Rolling Thunder of US been disqualified Martin Lawrence well done Nice Strategy Really ask you Scorsese and Bob Dylan. Okay did we make a mistake by letting Docs in? Because you could make the case that there are ten docks that Netflix says produced. That deserve its own hall of fame. Well it's too late now so soleil now okay. We're rolling with an American factory. We know all of us men talked about it a lot in okay uncomplicated. Choice to all the boys I've loved before this is where it gets interesting. Because you have to all the boys I love before and the next thing you have on this list is set it up and I think I guess I'm allowed to betray the sisterhood and say that we can only have one of these on the list but appropriate i. Well you know. I am aware that I just betrayed half the audience of Netflix. But that's okay. The question is which one and I have gone back and forth about this a lot and I kind of think even though I I love set it up and I think it's wonderful and it's a type of movie that I wish they were making more of but I kinda thing we gotta do to all the boys. Here's why is number one? It's actually extremely effective and well-made and it's a very very charming teen movie slash Rom Com that works for all ages. It is not just like four the teens but it really does start off like a huge wave of net flicks teen movies. That I think are very important in their growth and they're like a lot of people watching tall girl and all sorts of stuff. And you know I'm not but I think that's definitely part of their business plan like you have to have teenagers watching your service or else you're not gonNa have a service and the fact that they were able to both like make a good movie and develop new on answers to all. The boys makes significant in my opinion. All of that is very sound and the truth is I just don't like to all the boys nearly as much as I like. Set it up and you know the it's mostly because it's not for me set. It up is much more for me. Setup is basically about the ringer literally takes place sports media company run by very powerful and provocative figure about people who meet cute at that workplace. Like that's literally happened at a workplace that we've worked at. It's a very very familiar kind of thing and it's really well done and gave us Zoe. Dighton and Glen Powell so you and I had gone. Powell gave more people. Glad Powell and Y- hopefully the world more and more people will continue to receive gun Powell instead of before. So what are we supposed to vote? What do we do here? Do you want to put a pin in it? Because maybe the rest of this informs how we decide pin goes in it okay. Atlantic's Maddie ops film from Twenty nineteen much celebrated sort of a a ghost story. Love Story Fascinating. Film Hugely acclaimed when it was released kind of got overlooked. Come Come Oscar time but an interesting choice for the service to push movie like this out worldwide especially as they lean more and more into cinema from Africa. Nattiest French but I thought it was. A great film is very similar. Kind of conversation happy's Lazaro. This is like arthouse indie cinema. That would otherwise have been released by Sony. Pictures classics or something. Like that and there would have been a three month campaign. It would play one hundred. Twelve theaters around the country would have been nominated for an Oscar and then it moves moves on. I think that I would make a bigger case for Atlantic than happy as Lazaro. I think that there is something I mean you know. Obviously the just the cinematography is very beautiful but there is something about the visual effects and the way that the central mystery is shown on screen. Right is really effective but also I think draws your attention and keeps your attention at home. There is a little bit more. There's like a literal. What's going on here as opposed to like a D metaphorical sociopolitical. What's going on here of some other movies? So this is another one that I would put a pen and if we have room we have room. I don't WanNa just cut it. I also recommend it. If you haven't seen Atlantic's it's on Netflix. You can watch it. That's the beauty of this entire situation as we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA name films. You may be having heard of before haven't thought about since they were released and if you WanNa return to them you can. Is there all in one place? How easy is that? Crip Camp Crip camp. You saw at Sundance dead. I saw it after that now. Crip camp by all accounts is the leading contender for the best documentary. Oscar at the at next year's Oscars is is a film Produced by Higher Ground Barack Obama and Michelle Obama's production company. It's a story about a camp of disabled people in the nineteen seventies and how the this group of people came together when they were very young. Essentially led to the movement to an incredible movement For Disabled Rights over the last forty years Very direct down the middle heartrending kind of story issues oriented documentary. This is the sort of thing that usually does well at award shows. I think it is well done well-made I have nothing bad to say about the movie. It felt very pro forma to me but also there's like two or three times on your when you'll cry when you're watching it you know like it's still kinda grabs you. What did you think a Kripke? Absolutely I I was very moved by also and this is this is on me but it was not a movement that I knew a lot of history about so I did actually find it really educational which sounds sort of like homework when I say it but there is just I I like I learned a lot about very recent history that impacts the way that we all live so and it is really effective in that way and it and it tells that story and there are a couple of personalities who are really memorable. I think it's more You know it's one of those things where it's an important story well told As opposed to like a a magical. Can you believe this happened moment of cinema and I think we possibly undervalue important stories? Well told like in life but also documentaries but I agree that you know I mean nothing rises to the level of American factory. It's a it's a tough standard to have but it's not quite there. I recommend it though. If you haven't seen it between Kripke and Mrs America I'm really learning a tremendous amount about seventy s political movements. That I was not alive for. Maybe we'll talk Mrs America at some point because that's also operated much like a film even though it's nine parts very interesting show. I would recommend crip camp. I think now especially the movie was only released. A few weeks ago so There's a lot of people who haven't had a chance to catch up on. It's very well done. Let's go to the two. Popes about the two popes. It's a movie I finally saw it I it existed and I saw it. I really nice movie enjoyed it. I really liked the last Seven minutes and you know. Watch it with your family some time and we can move on. It's kind of weird him with the two puffs I'll never forget telluride screening of the two popes in walking out and like four or five people around me just being like wow best picture. They did it. That's going to win. Best Picture and then It's a it's a nice movie. Tell done yeah great performances I think is probably a little bit cavalier about the destruction that the Catholic Church has brought on some people's lives but hey we're gonNA do. It was not gonNA go down that road but I agree with you. Okay okay moving on. Let's talk about fire. Fire another movie. That feels like it was one hundred years ago. It was fire last year. Was it last year at this? I honestly don't know and I have to be very honest. I looked this up and have already forgotten which one is fire in which one is the other. One fire is the film that was directed by Christmas. It did not include the participation of billy. Mcfarland the the IMPRESARIO behind the ill-fated fire festival I I think fire is the superior film to the Hulu Film which which I think is called is called Fire Festival. I can't recall I'M A. I'm a huge Chris Fan He made Jim Andy the Jim Carey documentary years before that on Netflix which I didn't include on this list but perhaps I've made a grave error He also made American movie which is like a much-loved late nineties. Sort of documentary. Fire is the first time I ever thought that Internet documentaries belong outside of the Internet. Because it's a story not just about the Internet and told by people who work on the Internet but it's like it has the energy of the Internet the movie itself. Now I don't know if that was a purposeful choice by the filmmakers but when I was watching it I was like. Wow this is this is kind of like watching a really good youtube videos in a row and I don't know that that's oddly. An achievement unto itself. What do you think I agree with you? Though I do find it hard to separate this movie from the other fire festival movie from like the Internet storm around it and a lot of ways that makes it very representative Netflix. Movie right because it just instantly became a meme and if you didn't see either one of these movies you were aware that they existed. You're aware of clips of them. Your characters from these movies and it it brought interest to the service itself just because of the the Internet nature of it which I think we're seeing more and more if you have a meeting or two in your net flex movie people well rewatch it. They'll screen shot it. That will send attention to it. I mean that's the bird box effect for sure so I I do think it's significant but I just the at at some point I do also think it's just kind of borrowing at at some point. This is what like looking at. Instagram is like all the time. And I'm very familiar with that because that's what I do and and it's a good explainer for people who don't do that and it does effectively recreate that but to me. It's a little bit borrowing on other Internet Platforms or mediums. If that makes sense it does so crip camps out. The two popes is out fire is out. Okay do we have to fight about this is I mean I love Ohka Island. I was really moved by Ota. And you're just you'RE GONNA be rude to accomplish director and to feelings and two children and to animals and I don't need to be. Yeah I have a heart. You're put in the awkward position of defending children. Animals Bong Jun Ho. And that's not awkward. I'll I will defend bogged Ho and children every day of the week animals. You know. Let's also just an unbelievably strange Jalen hall performance. Which is another thing. I can't believe you're not on board for that. This has all of the things that you like I. It's it's almost too much. It's almost like when you you wait all week to order that special meal your favorite restaurant. You know you've been anticipating anticipating and then finally server to you and you eat it in five minutes and then you're just incredibly sick for the rest of the night and you're like why did I ruin my Friday night by not respecting myself and my body and I feel like Okra is just bong overload. You know it's just wants to do well. You're blessed eater and I'm not unfortunately I don't know how to control myself and this feels like that kind of person you know it's like it has all the hallmarks of all the stuff that I care about as you said and I love all. This is the one that I struggled with the most. I remember seeing it at net flicks as offices. I went to like a this beautiful screening that they have at their offices and I was fired up. I was like Netflix. Gave Juno fifty million dollars to make a weird ass movie about the ecological crisis a superpig. This is GonNa Rule Tilda Swinton it. Paul Deneau Stephen Jake Jilin Hall really going for Giancarlo Esposito tons of my favorite actors and I don't know it just it. It actually does remind me of that sensation that we were describing earlier in the show which was just like. I just didn't feel complete now. That's not the case in this scenario. Because you know. Bong has great vision. This is what he wanted to make. But I don't know I just couldn't I recall on the on the show before the night I came home and found? Eileen in bed like just a mess crying at okra. Yeah. I don't have pets on people but not me I will say I watched it at home and and I rarely have that kind of emotional locked in response to movie that I watch for the first time on a streaming services home as we have talked about a great length and I was invested. I was really moved by it. And I and I like wept but I do kinda think in terms of it being a netflix movie that extra s and that over the top is kind of what you need to hold people's attention it worked for me. It's also like it's a really well made movie. What are you why it makes me mad? I paid myself. Put a fucking pen in it. We're not if I'm not okay. Thank you from angry too. Happy Tree on the SPREADSHEET. Go back and highlight it okay. I'll put get anything passed me. Okay this is. This is live. Podcasting folks triple frontier. Yes in in are we. The only people left on triple frontier island. I think Chris Ryan and Zach who sought with us. I think it's the four of us. Okay Andrew Dice Garo. I should say our culture at the ringer and who has made a lot of content. We made memes that literally. No one else glommed onto. This is a great movie. Go Watch this movie. What else are you doing when the next version of cinema comes along twenty five years from now a bunch of French intellectuals start analyzing the American films of the twenty tens? They're GONNA look back. Only at what the ringer did. To appreciate The Majesty of Triple Frontier. We will be the canary in the coal. Mine and I. I look forward to be memorialized than that way. It's going to be great for triple frontier in the hall of Fame Velvet. Bud saw this is not going in the hall of fame. Game Gilroy Or world horror mystery film. I kinda liked it. Honestly it's imperfect also features a very strange Jake Dylan hope performance. I'm sensing a trend here from net flicks Solid movie not my favorite Thirteenth Aberdare as a documentary M- extremely well received documentary about The civil rights struggle and extending all the way back to slavery and is a very kind of hallowed and intense story that she made on the heels of Selma This movie I think in a Lotta ways introduced the idea of the important netflix film. I think this is probably be. Some donation was noisy. But I don't remember having a conversation with anybody about it. Thirteenth was nominated for best documentary at the Academy Awards. It was nominated also for us in documentary at the EMMYS. This was when there was some complication between what those two whether those two things could live in harmony I would say that it's a little bit difficult to judge this film because it's obviously such an important subject matter and also it's not exactly the kind of thing turned to over and over again you know but if we are memorializing here if we're building a hall of fame you can make the case that this is a very important. Move to the history of netflix movies. What do you think? So how many do we have locked right now? We have one two three four five six. We have six six with about twelve to thirteen more to talk through. Okay but I'm not feeling so strongly about a lot of those. We have several pins in things and this is maybe a time to talk philosophically. Are we doing movies? That are important in the history of Baffler or are we doing movies that we Shana. Amanda like I think any good hall of fame those both and that's really the challenge of this exercise. I think we've got to find a way to acknowledge what mattered. And we've got to find a way to acknowledge what is undeniable and thirteenth really mattered. And I think a Lotta people saw it and I think it gave the company a way forward in terms of what kind of document there is no curb camp with thirteenth. That's the thing right so and obviously everybody has gone on to become one of the most well known filmmakers working in America right now so I you know I haven't seen it since it came out. I haven't I haven't revisited I. It is very classical in the talking head. Approach you know. It's not a revolutionary act in terms of its style. But it's very well made We'll we'll put a pin in. It will make it yellow instead of red. The okay yeah mudbound. You never finished my bounds so really hoping once again. Oh God I'm really sorry. Everybody had sodas. Respectful bound is is good film by deary that amended and finish and I but I don't think it belongs now. It did. It was a pretty big. It was a pretty significant breakthrough in terms of netflix becoming an Oscar contender. I think was what we had four Oscar. Nominations which is no joke. Theories released a movie this year. The last thing he wanted there was certainly one of the most troubled films of twenty twenty for the record. I did finish that. One congrats to you. You're in a movie theater at the Sundance Film Festival. Everyone stayed and I did so there. You go that's a good point. That's tough I don't think about bounds going in though it has has things about it to recommend private life one of my favorites okay. This is a film starring. Kathryn Hahn Paul Giamati about a couple trying to conceive a child and IT IS I. It's one of them. Were under scene but well reviewed Netflix. Movies of its time. I don't know why there is a beautiful piece on the ringer written by Alan. Segel about his experience with the film and the way that intersected with his personal life I would highly recommend people. Check that out comes to us from Tamra Jenkins who you know. Has Intermittently made some of the best independent films in the last twenty five years. She made slums of Beverly Hills. And the savages I don't know what do you think I think this is one that I haven't seen have heard wonderful things about from everyone. And I I just think this is if we want to make a list of of underappreciated gems on Netflix than this goes at the top of the list. But if we're we're still arguing about whether like thirteenth and okay and these major movies should be on the hall of fame and I think It's probably not representative of the net. Flex experience maybe. It's representative than Netflix. That we you and I would like not flex to be but at least we're making today. I'm with you. We'll we'll we'll table. Private life is on the outside looking in the perfection which. I don't think that you've had a chance to catch up with which is an enormously fucked up fascinating funny. Strange not amazing but entertaining horror. Movie starring Allison Williams over this one. I watched this. Yeah I watched clips of this. It's not going in the hall of fame but I wanted to mention it as it. You know if private life is is decent and sincere and thoughtful and and and emotionally powerful the perfection is disruptive and fucked up and also fascinating in. Its own way. The highway men is A movie that I certainly liked a lot when I was eighteen. Having Kevin Kevin Costner and Woody Harrelson play lawmen on the hunt for Bonnie. And Clyde. It's a kind of inversion of the Bonnie and Clyde story and you know when movies like tombstones were being made. These movies were very important in. This is an attempt to return to kind of men being men manhunt to kind of film. And it's not bad. It's made by John Lee Hancock. He made you know the rookie and the blindsided in saving Mr Banks. He's a very you know talented. Hollywood studio filmmaker What do you think can I share an anecdote about this? There's a there's a guess she's an influence or is what I would call her on instagram. That she's a business owner. I really like a lot. Her name is Katie Sereno But she been following her in quarantine and she did a whole instagram story about her. Her husband was making her watch a movie and it was as she calls dusty and it was just like eighteen instagram stories about just like at the dusty genre and everyone looks really you know dirty and you never know what's going on and and I really related to her rant about dusty movies in the movie they were watching was Highwayman so there we go. I enjoy it. If you're if you're an occasional bro like me you might you might find something useful in the Highwayman but stuff on the hall of fame wine country number wine country. The Amy Poehler comedy time. I was thinking about wine country the other day because I remember watching wine country while eating key lime pie out of a pie tin and I'm proud to tell everyone that I have reverted to eating out of a pie ten again this week so it's nice to have those experiences. I don't know if it needs to be on the hall of fame as Harry Tape and said all all your life's a circle no wine country war-machine wow war-machine not a strong film. No this is a very important film also because this is the first time. That Brad Pitt made a movie for a streaming service. And that's I guess important. David showed directed. The film actually interviewed me showed when it was released. And I remember having a conversation on that episode with Melanie who is the outgoing editorial director of the Hollywood reporter. We talked a lot about some of these issues. We talked a lot about wind doing. And we talked a lot the studios power versus net flicks power. That was almost three years ago to the day I would think and it's funny. The most of that stuff came to fruition and even the war machine is not the reason. It came to fruition because it was pretty much ignored. I mean I don't think really people had very many nice things to say about it. It is an important movie more so than piece of no nation more so than sixteenth. It's a movie that probably made a lot of other. Very powerful people feel safe making a movie for Net flicks. So we'll leave it out because it's a movie that reminds me a lot of some of those key descriptors. We're talking about where it's like. It's got five genres going at once. And it feels unfinished but worth noting The Meyer with stories has been disqualified because we have included marriage story. Now that there's a case and I know there's a you know my case. This is the case that this is the better film. I I hear you and I support you and I don't WanNa like tell you you're wrong when it's so close to the emotions and I love a comeback as well I like marriage story. I'll have to find some time to do a three hour. Meyer with stories. Solo pod during Corinthian. Maybe I'll just keep it for myself. Never release it. That's causing darkest hours. Well there's nothing there's no virus stories is essentially an active therapy. So that's part of the reason why I enjoy it so much. The ballot of Buster scruggs I have I have to just flex my muscle on this and say that it's going in. This is a coin brothers movie. That's on Netflix. I knew this was coming. And that's why we put the Pinochet. Sean because I will trade you. You may put it on the list if dr on the less. Congratulations okay. Let's come back to that negotiation. I lost my body. The animated film from last year. That was much beloved. I think is very good film. Probably not worthy of our exercise here. hot high flying bird and the laundromat. Yes Double Twenty Nineteen Soderbergh once again by the way I had to add the laundry bird. I'm sorry launch bird. I had to the LAUNDROMAT to this list. Because of the frigging soderbergh razor on this podcast and throughout the world. Not On my watch. Okay I I don't know what to do with these two. I don't think either one of them is in the top fifteen soderbergh films but I like them both. I think if you're doing importance it's gotta be high flying bird right just because it is now iphone and the experimental nature of it and the it's soderbergh using streaming services as a vehicle to do whatever the hell he wants which is very good at and is now a lot of people are following suit so I think it is important. I agree that it's not in his top ten movies though a little underrated again. I don't know why I'm I'm guessing. Soderbergh protect Steven Soderbergh. It is a little bit underrated. But it's not underrated in the context of Ocean's eleven or sex lies and videotape. It's like we're talking about historical achievements or the most crowd-pleasing movies ever made and high flying bird is a an ardy clever. Well written well performed indie movie. I mean that's really what it is. I think. Also Adam Neiman's review of this movie was about how this movie is a lot of ways about making a movie on Netflix and gaming the system and and I do think if we wanted to be cute. There's a case to be made for it. Okay putting a pin in high flying bird okay. Moving past the LAUNDROMAT Gerald's game. I know you didn't watch now phenomenal movie. I Google that Mike. Flanagan adopts The Harrowing Stephen King Stories starring Karl. Gino who is of course the woman that Bill Simmons Chris Ryan and I are all in love with and is of fucked up story about a woman who is handcuffed to her bed Before she's about to have a sexual moment with her partner and her partner dies and she is stock and then everything that happened. Sir The the movie strays a little bit from the story. If you're looking for a quarantine content let me tell you. Gerald's game is got some some metaphorical power for you. It's a very tricky movie. Final THIRTY MINUTES OR AMAZING I. I don't think it's going into the hall of fame but it definitely is the movie that kind of locked Flanagan into doing the haunting of Hill House which was one of the biggest shows at two thousand eighteen and now later this year which is a show that I think is going to get a lot of attention more. So than even Abbas the haunting of blind manner which is the sequel another series. That Flanagan is doing in this vein. So you know. It reminds me a lot of some other movies here that were moving past like war machine where it's like. This movie really mattered and but it. I don't think it's worthy of a top ten. I I assume you're onboard with that. That's fine with me. That flat description sounded really fucked up. That's all I have to say. It's a it's I definitely recommend it if you like horror movies. It's really good. I know that's more of a challenge for you. When it all remember all I had forgotten it until I sat on this list. You know who I really like Jake. Johnson he's great. Can I just say did? Did you see this so jake? Johnson has been doing voicemails for kids in the voice of Whichever Peter Parker is from spider verse. Peter Parker Peter B Parker. And he'll call and leave a voicemail for kids and he did one for our our Pal Jason Gallagher Son Isaac and I it was moving and I love cartoons now. Congratulations very good. He's very good. Win At all is solid. Sala just wandered movie but now making its hall of fame the Love Me. When I'm dead is a personal favourite about the making of the other side of the wind. Orson Welles his last film very entertaining movie not making it. The hall of fame. Dolemite is my name also an entertaining movie. Nice return for Eddie Murphy. Didn't quite do it wanted to do at the Oscars this year. I don't think it's making it. In right I agree. I mean Eddie Murphy. On Netflix is significant. I think we've moved past the significant movies. It seems what happened. Miss Mon is an interesting one. This is a very fairly straightforward music documentary directed by Liz garbage about Nina Simone Very early in the life cycle of the netflix original movie. This came. This was a sundance movie in January of Twenty fifteen and to great acclaim and was nominated for best documentary at the Oscars. I can't recall. I think it's the first net flicks Oscar nomination and you could have made the case that deserve to win that year. Let's take a look into the twenty fifteen nominees were. Oh it's the same year as which is a bad break Yeah this was a hell of a lineup. Amy Cartel Land The look of silence. What happened Miss Simone in winter on? Fire Ukraine's fight for freedom least four. Those are staggeringly documentaries I don't know what do you think about this similar important movie? Is it essential to the hall of fame? I don't think it's essential again. It's if we're doing you know kind of landmark movies or if we're doing documentaries it makes both of those less but I think if we're trying to represent the whole netflix experience. Probably we gotta make room for something else. Same circumstances Vickery's. This movie won best documentary at the. Oscars. This is pretty important. Now I'm not. I don't think accuracy is amazing. I think it's kind of a fascinating story of how a man stumbled into a worldwide scandal. And you know the the film making that comes out of the stumbling into is very well done in propulsed live but you know one and and that that's that was a huge deal at the time. I I remember it very vividly. Yeah I do think that we do a whole show about Oscars and so we probably need to take a winning an Oscar seriously. I also have realized that. Holy Shit can you believe they got this on film as my favorite genre documentary and there is just a real like. Oh my God. Can you believe this happened? They got this. Who could have guessed? So I'm a little Predisposed to vote for it Chris but just it is like capitalist significant in the history of that blacks. I agree. We'll go with that accounts for maybe that accounts for the thirteenth conversation. The crip gang conversation would happen. Maybe Acura says the kind of the Representative Entry Tiger tail which is a movie that we have not talked about too much on this show. Bill interviewed Alan Young on his show which I thought was well done and I felt I felt the weight of its influences. A little bit too much for me you could. You can really feel Edward Yang and one car. Y In this movie and Allen has talked about the importance of those filmmakers to him and he's got such an interesting voice as a writer of comedy and I thought his show forever on Amazon. Prime was a fascinating experiment in TV. And I I think I went into the movie expecting something a little bit more irreverent and this is actually just quite reverend. You know it is very worshipful of the film makers came before him even though it's a very personal story and very well done and there's just not a lot of stories like this being made about Asian American families and I. I see the power of the story. I don't mean to underestimate that just it just didn't work on me as much as I had hoped it would. I agree mostly with what you're saying. I think it is a story with willing to much. That's told in flashbacks and it's about bringing all those stores together and I think I was moved by the independent storylines or the kind of independent worlds that were created and the it's bringing them together is definitely the hard part and that doesn't quite get there for me but I also thought it was really accomplished and moving and enjoyed. Actually just looking at at much of the movie agree six underground now. Why Watch extraction when you could just watch six underground again? That's my question for you. Why Watch a pretty interesting? That's SORTA cool action movie when you could watch the sickest action movie of Two Thousand Nineteen. Yeah that is a good question. I definitely didn't feel like high when I had left when I finished washing extraction and I mean that in a good way. I think I didn't really know what happened. When we left six underground just like white. I feel completely my senses have been totally stunted so I guess if you want to retain your senses then maybe extraction is the movie free you also you know if you care about Linear TIME and plot. Then maybe you would go with extraction but if you just WanNa see someone going for it. Six underground not in the hall of fame though now. Sorry you've added a final entry here You the this at the last minute. You tricked me. And you've asked me to discuss Miss America. The Taylor Swift documentary. WanNa make your case. Well I just. I noticed that we didn't have any of the the music documentaries on the list and net flex has made a habit of whether it's Katy Perry or Justin Bieber or that I- lady Gaga. Yeah Adwan Of doing these behind the scenes popstar documentaries and that has been significant for them. Maybe not for this show but for them and I thought this American it was was pretty good. I mean it's an advertisement for Taylor Swift As much as the documentary but I thought as far as these types of movies go is pretty and I thought that I should at least make you acknowledge it before. We didn't put it in the hall of fame. Considerate acknowledged and it is under no circumstance. Ever going in the hall of fame all right. That's fine let's do a recap. Here's where we are Roma. The Irishman Marriage Story shirkers American factory triple frontier and Nicholas are all in that seven films. Okay here's what we have to negotiate over. We've got one two three four five six seven films and three spots okay. So we agreed. That would get rid of some quote significant films so. I think that that we had an aircraft that goes out and I think that means that high flying bird I listen Steven Soderbergh. I'm sorry I ended autism. Sorry for doing this but goodbye. Well you betrayed sorry spend. I really sorry okay. So that leaves us with two for five films in three spots. Now it's GonNa. This is GonNa get a little nasty. I think do you think is Atlantic's GonNa GonNa GonNa get booted here given what we've gotta do. I think so. Yes our apologies to manage out. This film is beautiful and I hope you check it out. Here's what we're left with all the boys I've loved before. Set it up Ocho. The ballot of Buster scruggs. But we have four entering only three connects it yup. I think this is fine. So I've already told you. Wheeling and dealing is being made transparent I will give you ballad wrestler Surat scruggs. If you will give me okay okay. All right so we have one left and we have. The two movies identified that. I think that there should only be there. Should only be one. Are you going to push for set it up now? There's a problem here. Which is that. We just don't agree. Which of the two should go in I that I was making the case for it to all the boys I love before I even though I agree that I enjoy set it up more and I wish that netflix would make more movies like set it up because I am the audience for set up again. It's the significance versus enjoyment aspect. And I think we've done a pretty good job of reflecting both. I mean we don't have anything for the teens on this list and I guess we just don't have to. Maybe this is a list for grownups. I'm stumped I like set it up more. I think all the boys I love before his is more important so what matters the most well I. That's what I was asking. I mean we did decide ultimately about I guess we have been like ignorance is standing in for significance and Roman Irishman are standing in for an American factory. Guess It's our list like honestly we just put it up on their. It's fine. Why not give people something any about working? Here is one thing to keep in mind. We if if there are any young people who actually find this podcast stay will hate us if what if young people like very young people who care about to all the boys before find this. They'll be mad at us. If we cut it off the last I can live with that. Okay we I think we probably in this tiebreaker situation need to cede just a modest amount of power or producer Bobby Wagner. Who is a young child and who is indicating via our show notes that to all the boys. I've loved before is much more important than set it up now. I know I know that's okay. All right so it's all the ones I've loved before I've been defeated. My apologies to our PAL. Glen Powell. It's just a damn shame but I think we have our ten to have ten counted correctly. Let's run through them. One last time here the Netflix Hall of Fame Roma the Irishman Marriage story shirkers American factory. All the boys I've loved before Ogier triple frontier the ballot of Buster scruggs and Nicholas. How do you feel? It's a pretty good list. I really enjoy all of those movies. I'm I'm very happy that we have to frontier out there. At the end of the Metoo we did it again. We stand for triple frontier as we always should Amanda. Thanks collaborating with me. On this very very important list That was pretty civil. Didn't you yeah. We might be pulling punches due to pandemic anxiety. That's that's my sense of things. If we were in person might have gotten a little bit noisier. But we've got. We made a fair trade for Buster scruggs in. Okay I sorry for I'm sorry for introducing diplomacy into this instead of yelling about Rangel. If you WANNA do that now I'll go ahead. Well before this descends. Let's wrap it up. Thank so much as always. I hope everyone listening will stick around for my interview with Alex Garland. Let's go to that right now Very very happy to be joined by. Alex Garland Alex. Last time I saw you you were just about to embark on your first television experience. And you're excited about the potential freedom that that might provide. Can you tell me if that lived up to your expectation? Deb's IT exceeded it WITHOUT QUESTION. I think partly because the degree of freedom was something I wouldn't have been able to anticipate I'm because it came from learning things about the medium as I went along but also some of it was just very straightforward and it was to do with being in sync In a particular way with the people who paid for the thing so that there was a there was a kind of a foundation of freedom which comes from the lack of dissonance between the financier and and then and then it was just realizing how much how much space there is to explore. I think integration. Do you think this means you'll continue to focus on television is. Is this the plan now for you? I wouldn't say that I'm just because I don't work in a strategic way to I mean in many respects if I worked in a strategic way. I wouldn't have made very few of the things of made percent he would make something back ones mechanics and So so I don't I don't think in career terms I think in project and I think in terms of the thing. I would really like to try to be able to do next as soon as I finish something but anyway. That's what I think about the thing. I'd like to try next television but beyond that I think if I if I had an idea for a stage play droid or if I had an idea for a movie. Dra I mean it's it's like Whatever seems right for the story I think do. I hope I've learned something about loan form. Storytelling I then be able to build on. What do you think that might be if you learned anything? I don't know that that there is there are some there are some questions Like what are your influences? Or what have you learned? The I wind almost impossible to answer. Honestly because because you don't really know it like I I could come up with a sort of rationalization I I could. I could chuck onto things like Abou- sound design. I just invented on actually often. You don't really know what influences you he you know what you like and so when someone says will influence you you you list of things you like but I think what you learn. It's like you don't discover until the moment you have to reach and you think Oh. I know how to do this what we can do it. Do you know what I mean like. If you want I can come up with some crappy rationalizations if that helps. That's not necessary. Forgive me based on the the the the lack of desire to talk about your influences but we talk about stocker. Last time we talked about annihilation. You've talked a bit about You know how difficult it is to make science compelling. I was wondering if there are films or TV that you felt previously had done that because your show is really one of the first really that I can think of that. Made an effort to expose some of the ideas in the series so films films and television of made signs compelling mine. I'm going to be the worst interview subject you have a while. I think the I think that two thousand one as a very very good job because it has it has within it the best accounts of an artificial intelligence and also some truths about space travel say How long it takes and an how it could mess with people's minds and stuff and I feel like I feel like there's a lot of truth in that movie and and it doesn't it doesn't have to resort to sort of Neutrino gun so hype awoke else's whatever it is. I also think Michael Crichton was very good at it he he sort of retrospectively is thought of often as a certain kind of thriller writer. But there were some very very solid serious ideas. The heart of what he was doing ways. It was very good at making them accessible. But I think I'm I think he had a keen understanding of not not just a scientific idea but the implications of the hair as well. It was very good. It's an interesting segue to talk about. Crichton who is a doctor? You're not a doctor so I'm interested in kind of what you had to do. At the beginning of the writing phase year to feel like you had a grasp on the story Because it's it's complex well some things about it. complex Some really no I think. Determinism is not a complicated idea tool and Actually the idea. Ceo Many worlds is not in itself. Complicated like the the arguments that might lead you towards leaving it exists very bigoted and And then the implications over our two big head around but conceptually it's straightforward. I think the I'm in. It's sort of immediate apprehension. Anyway I what I do. Is I get fixated on something? I guess cessive about particular particular idea or concept and then I read as much as I can. I'm very aware of the limit of my abilities. Intellectually I wasn't good at school I wasn't I went to college when I was in college and I I didn't star being interested in any of these kinds of things into my twenties and I know from reading science books that I will get two paragraphs and chapters that all impenetrable to me. I don't have the intellectual where we will be able to make it through them so I do as best as I can and I try to be as fair as I can to the scientific principles and then there's I check with other people I go to equal. Who understand the things back to the night my test them and let them be the wave climbing over the brick wall of my stopping? Good if you don't mind my asking. Why did you get interested in those books? In Your Twenties. I yeah no. I remember it very well. I came across an idea which flows relativity. Which is that. Time is not a constant and is affected by velocity and. I could not understand that this might be true and in any attempt to understand why it might be true. I discovered exactly how huge migrants was about subjects. So so I didn't have the bill. The basic building blocks that I needed to be able to get my way to an understanding of it and I I. I remember this very very clearly. I go a book which was aimed. A kind of eleven and twelve year olds Abou- atoms and it was about an answer. What is an atom and so I guess I was like twenty two maybe And unread that it allows me to go into it with a wholly without having had that sort of university smug kind of. Oh Yeah. We discussed this stuff in our first year. I because I have because I didn't discuss it in my first year. So so I- retain the kind of wide eyed wonder about. I think I've never lost it. I still find it as beautiful and strange. And the paradox is as mind-bending. I always have them and so the wide thing I keep and I also I also think I can then go into the kind of easy going humility. Which is I don't really I'm just doing my best and so it makes it easy for me to appeal to people to say. Can you help me with this? Can you help me understand it? I in the same way. The the jaded university educated people feel bored by my sophomoric fascination and in these kind of cosmic things. I feel bullet by the boarder. I just think you kidding what you. You've really got a rule of this stuff. It's is endlessly fascinating and beautiful and strange. So I'm in in some ways. I actually feel quite lucky. The I wasn't I wasn't capable at school. I wanted to ask them specifically about your writing process for something like this to particularly do characters come first or story in this case because I have some questions about the characters on the show shoe. The IDEAS COME I. I'm it's it's it's idea based fiction and I'll be mulling over the idea. Mulling over a not the idea of the story of the ideas in the principle of the story and then his story Sydney just occurs to me And and it usually occurs in quite a complete form which always interests me because it means on some level. I being structuring of a story without realizing I was doing it and I can be doing anything. Could be driving in the caw and suddenly think fuck. What if like this Roy Moore in room and as this go and then there's another gun so it's it's it's a slightly weird process but it comes from from getting a bit obsessive about subject matter and then everything else flows for so do then shape figures inside of those ideas to to make character? I think the characters tend to come for something to do with my state of life. Maybe something like that. So for example in deb's the two preoccupations. I had where today with love love between April. Not Not just romantic love but love between colleagues and friends and grief as well And I remember one of the things I remember. What one of the things I. I felt very strongly about the beginning was to do with Lily and grief which is I'd noticed often in narratives that people who have experienced grief like a bereavement very significant grief have kind of shrugged it off maybe literally four and a half minutes later and they've sort of bounce back in their animated joking in an often that I joke Joe's with me a bit and then you sort of say okay. Like his wife's dad he's right about all or the story is more interested in that and yet you kind of go with it but I I wanted to. I wanted to look at these two forms. A grief of Lillian forests that the way the way holy cow the way the way this sort of cosmic ice cream scoop just pulls out all of your insights and it causes them somewhere. You can't find this might be kind of a dogmatic or conservative way to think about it but you think of any of the characters do you think of Lily as the lead figure in the story or is it possible. That forest is the lead figure in the story or or someone else for that matter. I don't think in such clear. Structural ways actually And I just feel you have a group of characters with a group of preoccupations and and it's a it's a bit like wave forms that occur existing and sometimes to rise at the same moment and sometimes one is rising as once folding. I'm I get if I was being asked to be explicit about it I'd say. Yes lillies the protagonist in some respects. I just don't care I mean Joe. Okay but it's it's not it's not a real patient and one of the reasons it's not Abril Kebe schist because I think as soon as you saw thinking in those times then maybe you start to get infected by ideas about what protagonists should be doing. And I'm parasites are very interesting. Example of film. The abandons all sorts of structural things that that in a extraordinarily tedious fixated way a bull including me have just recycled and recycled and cycled and and they just get jettisoned. In that film it makes us see how. How Stupid. Some of these extant. Aw How pointless. Now we're we end up in a funny kind of cycle of almost like nursery rhymes just repeating the same story and same with him again and again and again and again and and so in a much more muted wave and parasite I tried to disrupt in my own way. It's it's much more muted. It's It's probably less effective and Dramatic but but in annihilation and an X. mackinaw and in Dave's I'm I'm playing with expectations about protagonists and I would. I would argue in various ways. Aver is the protagonist affects mackinaw. The the Robo Sort of female appearing robots in next mechanism is the protagonist. And if you see that way it's a different movie I guess and anyone who just went four with as much as possible. That was why I asked because I I get that impression and I was hoping you would see it that way. I want to ask you about the the big ideas but also the the sort of the universe that you were attempting to look at more closely so specifically you seem to have a little bit of uneasiness with the idea of big tech. I don't know if your opinion about it has changed at all now that you've ended this this series. It's it's it's weird. I do have uneasiness about big tech in many respects but I've got as much uneasiness as as about the consumers of big tank because I do about the big companies themselves. It's the thing is problematic and I know people some very well who work in big tank and very thoughtful insightful reflective people whoever who have a keen on the signing of the problems with the industry's by working and have very self-aware anxieties. But I don't think that's sufficient to protect us from the probes Having individuals within the machine actually in the end protects us from the machine. I felt very disturbed. When Ed Snowden made Israel is revelations that it affected Babia not one bit. I wonder what lessons we need to learn. How shaw the lessons needs to be before we we really pay attention and don't just fall back into a previous state? Corona virus is going to be very interesting on that. Because there's there's many many lessons we could take from about off. Fragility could equally apply to climate changes. They could about on Dimick's with and I very obvious they will be IDA needs to explain. Ramsey unit will help well before. I say you've probably had same compensation of your friends so many listens but is all behavior can actually J. jet just rambled slightly as the thing that happens when filled sense when a problem is identified where somebody says in three days time. We're GONNA have a problem because this is going to happen. And everyone stands around and they discussed the problem and then I move on him in three days later. The program arrives because everyone feels that by having discussed the problem. The problem is somehow sold. But it wasn't what he did was talk about. It happens again and again and again and it it. I'm as guilty of as anybody and I. That's the kind of thing voted back to big town. That's the kind of thing that bothers me. We we talk about big tech. We don't do anything about the issues. It's fucking drugs. Trade is like we know a bunch of people in Central America. Get a heads off. Because the drugs trade people's lives get destroyed. We note doesn't stop. People take relying on Saturday. Give you shit and so it's kind of. It's it's the connection between what we known what we do and any time involves a lot of power. That's a problem. Tech companies have power so tech companies. You know there's a kind of dovetails I specifically with the idea. The kind of kind of one of the core ideas of the of the series which is obviously free will versus determinism and deterministic nature. Did you find you've been asked what? What do you actually believe many times since you started doing this show and everybody wants to know what is what is? Alex think is our is it. Is it determinism or is it free will? I can answer that however you feel comfortable at this specific point in history but did you find your opinion about that. Debate changing as you are writing or making the series. Did it open your eyes anything that you hadn't previously considered before you started? Not about the tone is free will talk about quantum mechanics. Yes and I think it's because determinism and free will. It's an easy idea to get your head around and many of the arguments about it can be had without technical knowledge I mean you can get into an area of technical knowledge. Waste thought talking about randomness and the way atoms decay over whatever you want the basics of it which is the the degree to which all behavior is by all nature on natural. That's easy stuff in and easy to arrive at your own conclusion about in basic times. I'm quantum mechanics. I was learning constantly still learning because it's not something that anybody yet understands it. One of the things about quantum mechanics. People constantly talk in terms of interpretations were theories. Because that's there is this amass. The works very well is repeatable and predictable. You can base antastic experiments like in pawtucket accelerators and stuff like that. But but the underlying trays of what's actually happening in the implications of absolutely categorically. Not so so you continue to expand. You'll your own knowledge and and then also expand your sense of how little you're this is kind of a sidebar but I think whenever specifically ubad anybody tries to make something like this which raises a kind of intellectual emotional debate and is rooted in science. There's a lot of feedback so you get your typical television criticism that you'll get any time you work on something but then you also get the science community wants to weigh in and there's this sort of ancillary content. Do you keep up with the reaction to those things or do you block all that stuff out. I don't exactly look it out. I'm not I'm not plugged into the world in many respects I think if I had a twitter account and people could communicate with me or sharing things with me innocent kind of way at that would make me inevitably more plugged in but of course. I'm aware that the compensations hadn't I'm aware that reviews grit and I'm aware and sometimes I remember when I made annihilation being sent a really useful article showing my age. Now I think base right and and I think it was in Volka and and being very affected by when I read it but that's also hearing voices too much is problematic because because unconsciously even my stop to play to them maybe too much And be too scared of them. So you talk about scientific community. If I will scientific community was GONNA shred deb. Soc Red x McKenna could easily stop me doing it because because I hold those people with a degree of war really and so they could freeze me in my tracks if I feel well. I'm just stupid. I what do I know? So maybe deliberately. Or maybe in almost coincidentally I'm slanty protected from. I wanted to ask what the acting style and the show there is so much stillness and beauty in the designed but there is also a kind of what feels like a purposeful flatness and a lot of the approach to the acting. I wonder is that something that you guys talked about with the cast and tried to shape. And why did you decide to do that? I'm I absolutely and I remember saying to the actors often on a film set April. Say can you speed it up? Can you take the pauses out? I said I'm never gonNA say tape was If I think about what? What's the best thing? Abou- filmed narrative film. Ot It doesn't matter it's the IT. It is a synthesis of so many different things and the point is the harmony states. Where the sound design and the performance the school and the editing pace and photography and the words theon on ooh pointed in the same direction and and you can have this very beautiful anarchistic state of all these different fiefdoms independently. Working together and intuitively working with each other A good example was remember world holiday the DRP saying to me one day. He feels the snow as clock speed and his cook speeder identical. Because she always walks the speed. He wants to move the camera so he's never having to pan too quickly again. I slightly juddering will could hand. It's it's and and I think the I think the point about the series is the heart of the overall thing we we were shooting for is is a kind of hypnotic state hypnotic state which is most exemplified if it's one of those spiral patterns the center of the baton which you focus on and everything else becomes popul- swelling griff revision. The centers is the Cuban the machine and the inhabited state so has pulsing light. But that means everything has to be in service of the hypnotic state so that the speed of the performances in the clock speed of the editing and the way the things the framed and the way the light moves even on the sat there rule aiming at exactly the same thing so chewed on say yes. One of the incredible achievements of the series is just the sheer design of the world and the giant. Amaya figure in the halo lights in the trees and the floating elevator L. I mean just just before. We started my producer said. This is the one of the best looking TV series. I've ever seen in my life. How much of that? How much of that stuff is at the earliest stages of conception that you were talking about before that you need? These visual cues these objects. These ideas ideas that are going to carry us through every single story line and how much of it is. We're on set and we're trying to come up with a cool looking idea. Okay so I'll give you to clear for instances so cube based on fractional shape the computer the core of it based on what an actual quantum computer looks like the superstructure the the black and white fuzzy images so all of these things contained within the scripts that is to say and then we figure out how did so a proportion of things Dictated and then we can get run with it or exploited or explorer whatever but some of them are defined. I'm now that is a is a theological. Argument IS ACIDIC ARGUMENT ABOUT PEOPLE. Love is what about theology? One about science one about philosphy. Run through the shot so religious iconography is baked into the show in various ways. So those those rings might look so intentional by me. They weren't the Lee who is the gaffer. The guy in control of lights we were talking. How do we lie as we go up? Lights is silent. You know whatever he said he he came up with the idea of the rings he said make them shine downwards not upwards words when we arrived on the set. It was a cold night. When people breathed out steam would come out and shroud them and immediately it fell magical and felt. Why halos just look by Halos so that. So then you thinking sticking actor Andrei rate we get guy with a bid halo around him now. That show was arrived out on the fly in the moment. It's a consequence of Lee understanding. What light does what light? Doesn't forest twenty different people not me before I on the other people decided how high these things were and the way they were spaced out between trees and then and then we just exploit the hell out of it so it. It looks very intentional and deliberate. But it's not. It's that's the beautiful thing about toolmaking is the organic stuff happy accidents. You'll colleagues have good. You'll colleagues order. Were as pleasure. I love the sound design and the music as usual. I always loved that in your work. Notice you return to Crosby Stills Nash. I wanted to ask you about Random semper tear. No which is not something I had ever heard before you mentioned religion being a key part of the story. Two in the Gregorian chant and we met sound. We wanted to lay that market down right out the gate. The the devotional bit of music really interrupted. Please going well what what goes into those decisions. I mean why that sound now is going to be synonymous with the show. I mean that that chant and you know in addition to all the music that that Jeff Ben put together for it. So where did that come from? It's a very very beautiful bit of music. I'm Ben Salisbury. One of the composers had played it to me Well actually while we were making elation I remembered has just been is very very pure very very beautiful devotional bit of news and then there was this other version where somebody played nounce. I sack cyber which gave this with Wade. Quality of something very old and so many more contemporary and It's it's caught of a trail of breadcrumbs on some respects leading towards a theological question to do with the paradox of God being all knowing or not he needs to be will knowing. But if we've got free will he's not so so that that that paradox but also it would then fold back into question about before solo or tone because some of the some of the thing about hypnosis is that is beautiful. The you who it is like Philip Seymour where you can watch Phillips. Involvement could be completely wrapped up in store in the before and a character. But also be thinking with another talk your brain. Wow He's a really good actor so you both fully in and also objectively out at the same time and and it it. It's a bit because that very very beautiful bit of music might be pulling you out on away in some respects into your own internal space your own in tunnel space that you inhabit while looking at a beautiful image of Miss Colored San Francisco Hills or beautiful golden light all but the out steak is also part of in state is that that's that's the ideal synthesis may be made it was shooting for another. That's completely incoherent It it's it's it's part of the weird thing about film. Another version of it would be like a sex senior film where you saw forgetting about the story and you're thinking you're turned on whatever you know. How beautiful is boy is is as a whatever you know and but that then becomes part of the experience of watching film. Did they work in very strange ways movies films? Tv from narrative we had with medium. I like how you put all those things together. I wanted to ask you. I'll ask you just a few more questions. I don't WANNA eat up too much of your time during this very strange period of our lives. But there's some really bold choices in the writing and things that I think could be uncharitably described as pretentious specifically characters quoting Larkin characters. Quoting Yates. You know what what goes into those decisions. The fuck is pretentious about. I mean like seriously what it reminds me of that. It's that sort of slightly smug overeducated thing where you feel. It's sort of beneath people to quite a trade should be beneath them. They should have moved Boston seriously. I mean I one of the things is so high. I love poetry. I love poets. I I love a WHO who've crafted senses together beautifully and and thoughtfully and in the same way as I love bits of music and why not use a bit of her in the same way as you use a bit of music? I'm in episode seven. There's a bit of as a fit lock in arm St Reich Music Okay. You could save as pretentious and all say Boko from. I'll go and carry on doing my thing and you can go off and do I like that answer. Anytime I can get an interviewee to say fuck off to a question I've asked. I know doing a good job. I'm not saying it's it's it's it's so it's like come on. We have to follow the same patterns and rules by continent. Tv show the quotes? Logging went off. We like where's the constitution? Where says you can't do that? And if there is quick. Let's rebuild so an abnormal number of your films and your show are resonating with me right now. You've you've written stories about pandemics and isolation and the nature of social order and technologies power to disrupt and solve society. How are you feeling you feeling prophetic right now? It would make contagion befitting prophetic. I didn't SCO Burns and Steven Soderbergh did I have no no no I don I I am I. It's funny. Actually people keep mentioning twenty eight days later today as if as if it has anything to say about his underneath. It really doesn't. This is only marry It's it's I mean maybe it's because things give people a sense of anxiety maybe from I. I often feel confused about that stuff. It's like when people say to me. I'll depths is disturbing thinking nice not distributors of future projection into messed up state. This is the messed up statement and right now. If if it's if that means this disturb yes I am I. I don't I certainly don't think that'd be really Reaching if I said I was giving any kind of insight into contemporary stuff with those movies really but if you if you like them great I do like them. You mentioned in the past that you might WanNa reconvene this. Cast to do something again is that is that something you will do. I I would I would love to. I've got no. I've got no since I will ever be able to happen. I got to write it. I I've got get it financed and sort of made or set up at least and then you know. It's a large cost. They've all got their own. Lives will will their own projects. Thought IT GETS A. It's an idea that comes largely from theater. I'm behind the camera. Where were traveling circus? We've we've worked together long time. We know each other really well. A lot of us are very very close friends and the idea that Like why should there be this church and state separation between cost and crew? I like the idea of using the same again. I think it would be interesting saying Kylie in doing very different. Kind OF ROLE. It's creatively interesting. It's Li- autistic valid in an office so to do that. I love that what do you? What do you just as a final question? What are you? Are you watching anything right now? Have you seen anything recently? That is really switched yuan during this period. I I've been watching law and I mean a lot of it's always sunny in Philadelphia. I've got a year. Old Son is just Razi about and so I watch. It's always on in Philadelphia with him. That is that is a perfect recommendation for this moment and your your brain with fx. Alex I I love Dev so thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate talking to you. Thank you thank you. Alex Garland and of course thank you to Amanda Dobbins. Please stay tuned to the big picture next Monday. We'll have a very special episode dedicated entirely to Beastie boys and we will be talking to Beastie Boys. We'll see you then.

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New York City Grinds to a Halt

The Daily

37:39 min | 7 months ago

New York City Grinds to a Halt

"Glad I guess we're reporters were asking how businesses are doing In Chinatown right now. You're smiling. Did you know the answer to that question itself for a month and a half? It's going to go down more. This is not the bottom. Uh New York Times Michael Barr. This is the daily. Everything's running slow with doing half of what we use fifty percent less than before easily sixty percents Across America businesses are scaling back firing workers and shutting their doors because of the corona virus. Have you ever seen it like this before? Never never had my daddy says Sylvia's epidemic in New York City that started in Chinatown stories of economic downturn. Even discrimination against Chinese communities are coming to light across the country fueled by anxiety here in New York City business owners in Chinatown sales are down because of widespread fear and this ad within days it had expanded to the entire city by order of the government and earlier. Today Governor Andrew Comex flame the extraordinary measure that he is taking to protect New Yorkers and limit the spread of Corona virus. Today what it sounded like as New York City's economy ground to a halt life as we know it for tourists. New Yorkers would be quite different for the time being. It's Friday March twentieth. Hello what generally do your time podcasts. So this is solid Tan. It's Sunday March. Fifteenth and I am in Manhattan's Chinatown. There's some souvenir shops open. A few bakeries and restaurants open But also a fair number of places are closed with their gates pulled down in front or with cardboard over their windows. I'm about to meet the owner of this restaurant. Amazing Sixty six and I am just getting to the front of the restaurant right now. Hello I helen. Based Elbow bump activity is still a little deep at twelve o'clock usually is lunch. Cloud should be coming in but now we only have one person at one table to empty. My name is Helen and I am the restaurant on the of Beijing. Sixty six on my street in Manhattan. I actually born in Hong Kong and I came to the United States with my family and four other shipping and nineteen sixty nine. I'm here so at the time my parent was working on the common manufactory. I honestly say that I've been stopped working here under age the third day to United States. I go to school and then I worked a Goto. The gun manufactory to work after school. And how long have you been running this restaurant? This is my fourteen years. She's the business. Keep going down and my staff's worry the transportation when traveling and I guess I have no choice but to close up the restaurant as tomorrow that sixteen and of course I didn't I don't really like it and don't want to but I have. No choice is sad. You know I mean my staff. I say their family. I mean like a family to me if I don't see them. I feel that I'm not I can't I'm not home. You know but I hope this might restore cooperation and they'd be better be healthy and what's the food that you're gonNA miss the most from your restaurant for my restaurant So many of them you know. I have the Pumpkin with the short rib. I have to check in with garlic shores. I have the lobster the cheese and so many so many well. I hope you can reopen and eat all those foods again soon with yourself and your family. I hope everybody can reopen. Show make the Chinatown. You know blossomed again. You know more people come back there. I just wanted to see the street that four people instead of empty. That's the most important all right very nice meeting you okay. I'll definitely come a against well. There are closures and cancellations throughout New York City. There are big crowds outside grocery stores. They are lined up around the block on the upper west side spot in any neighborhood right now. The grocery store regular shoppers rarely see this big crowd here. Long lines of anxious. Shoppers have left shelves bare everywhere. Okay so this is Alex. It's about two thirty PM on a Sunday afternoon and I'm standing in front of this market in my neighborhood called halls e traders market and it's Kinda like a cross between a small grocery store and what we call a Bodega. It's not a full service grocery store but you can come here to get you know a few toiletries or Some vegetables whatever you need for the night Yeah I'M GONNA go in and see what's going on there so I just walked in the front door and there's there's a lot of people here right now so there's about three little counters where people are checking out. Each one is pretty busy now. There's a lion behind each one of them. See this one woman right here at the counter. She's buying a lot of cleaning products like lysol waves and sprays. Hey Are you nice to meet you? I'm not gonNA shake your hand and that's okay great okay. Can I get you to just say your name and what you do here. Okay yeah sure My name is Ju- ju-. I've been supervising the store and the key food down there for the past ten years and the never seen anything like this is just the sheer volume of customers shopping. At the same time you know you would think like perishable items wouldn't be moving. I have no eggs Yogurt is running out. Me Is running out What did it feel like for you when you saw the line? Starting to get really crazy. What were you thinking your head. I was extremely stressed. I like yesterday. I went so unprepared bags under my eyes. I'm working nineteen hours. Sometimes I'll get like half hour sleep. my my employees are overworked. I'm overworked I'm shaking speaking to you. Not because I'm nervous shaking on pilot. I'm very tired you know. I'm a cashier for five minutes on stocking. Meet for five minutes. I'm doing everything at what point in time there was a few shoplifters. I swear to God I even have time to talk to them. I tap him on the shoulder and have a good day enjoy. What were they stealing? So so what do you like somebody? Who's desperate not just feels local. You do I would. I don't know if you see my I which I feel like my eyes twitching can't tell you know for the past thirty years my family's been around over here operating My Dad's seventy two years old. When he comes here people still recognize him so You know you feel bad for people you know you really want to help going on but we have no garlic no onion. We have no our frigerator empty. Our walking boxes are empty For as long as I know many anti life boys had never delivered on Sunday. They don't deliver on Saturday either. Close Saturday and Sunday lunch meat. The delicatessen meats In most popular in New York and I called the guy yesterday and I was like. Hey listen we don't have anything and the guys like you know. We don't deliver on Sunday ever right. I was like I told him I was like look if if you have any commonsense as a businessman and if you have a heart you get your ass up this morning all right and you deliver food all right because people are running out called me this morning at seven o'clock in the morning he's okay. I'm in front of your store. And he had a full truck so he didn't just come. Serve me boards. That is a really big company but each row owner is independent. You know so. That's that's where I wanted to come from this guy got up. You know left his family to to do something like that. That's something I appreciate it a lot when you said that you saw this line. And you're nerve wracking you're panicked. What was the worst fear that was going through your head like what? What were you specifically panicked about? That people wouldn't do what I was doing. The deep breaths you know that people will start fighting each other And that we would have to handle that like. Where's the support that we should have? You know like from our government in that scenario. What am I supposed to do? But my own life danger or one of my guys or over toilet paper paper or something you know like if hypothetically speaking we are the only businesses will we have police officers standing outside supporting us where we have you know fire department people just sticking around like just more bodies around is there gonNA be a national guard. You know if that does happen. These are all worst-case scenarios. But these are the only things I would think about moving forward everything that we've dealt with the sleep deprivation my own personal issues. All these things are more right right but if they close a few steps further what do we do? The United States is Sturdier to shutdown as millions of Americans are working from home now. Thousands of schools have closed millions of Americans working from home. When you avoid public places you hurt. Sales at restaurants retailers malls Doug. We talked to Uber Lift. Drivers did they've seen a seventy percent drop off from their sales from the last few weeks. Hey this is Jessica Chung. It's Monday march sixteenth. I'm on the upper west side and I'm actually standing in the lobby of my apartment building waiting for a lift Because I wanted to talk to one of the many workers who are still working during this pandemic. There are people who can't work from home. They're people who might not have paid sick rules and I wanted to ask them what it's like to be working during this time. I'm good. How are you okay? You want now? We should probably leave it open right. Yeah one window. Yeah Yeah I see that you have A can of Lysol spray a can of Lysol wipes hand sanitizer on your cupholder. And you're wearing a mask right. I'm seventy five years old. I have I have a chronic bronchitis so there are true. Very bad conditions for the right. I have to protect myself and I have to protect you. I think that it should be mandatory for every taxi driver to have a mask because we've become around teddy to thirty five people today. Only one person. The virus can contagious about thirty five people that stirrup my name is Ron Johnson. I'm originally from Argentina. I'm in this country for forty seven years and all my life I was My work was to do costume. Ankara frames with Gold Leaf for artists and museums and gardens but three years ago. Like I've fallen street. I haven't an attic disc so the only position that I'm not in pain is when I'm sitting down the thing that I could find out that I can be sitting and make money tax free I'm so happy that don't do in this. Because some forty seven years old leaving New York I discovered six months more than forty seven years ago but he discovered many places in Brooklyn that I didn't know much about broke in many places. Beautiful Gardens Beautiful buildings all over the city. That never suspect that they're going to be here that that I was going to be able to see something like this now. I see everything. Now I see everything Can you tell me how how businesses doing various real usually when they work in the morning I did? I've many parents with the kids to schools night when I was Saturdays and Sundays on Friday. Nice usually pick up between thirty five forty five people yesterday. Went out to work because On the whole day. So it's really low and this is affecting everyone given that you have so many risks of getting the virus. Why are you still working because to tell you the truth because the retirement in United States is not is not enough to buy food so I have to work? If you stopped working what would happen? I have no idea because I won't have enough money to pay rent or to buy food or to to survive so I have to work. I have to do it All right well thank you so much. You are very. You're going to go on the radio. Yes we are on the radio. We are also on the phone. Phone like a podcast. You I could send you linking all you have to do is press play back Vanity Fair Calls Fx the Best Network on TV. And now you can stream fx on. Hulu over forty original series and fourteen hundred episodes your favourite fx shows and exclusive new series including Atlanta American Horror Story Fargo and more and premiering. This March devs from Alex Garland the writer director of X. Makina fx on Hulu free with every who subscription now streaming by Claire Tennis Gutter One of the producers who makes the daily one of the things? We often talk about on the team. As how to cover international stories it can be hard to take stories from faraway places and make them relatable. I one of the great things about the New York. Times is we have reporters all around the world and our reporters aren't just sitting behind computers. There in the field meeting people doing on the ground reporting and one of the stories I worked on recently was with our reporter have your Hernandez who covered a protest Hong Kong. I asked him to record for me as he was doing his reporting. And he sent me all these interviews and I was able to put on my headphones and immediately feel like I was meeting a seventeen year old in the streets. Fires blazing around or tear. Gas Canisters fly into the air and to hear why she was there and that gave me a deeper understanding of this far away. News in Hong Kong and this intimate global reporting is something that is so special about the New York Times and is one of the reasons we need people to subscribe. If you believe in this kind of work and want to hear more of it please subscribe to the New York Times Nightlife in New York City going dark. All bars across the city of New York will be closed. Many restaurants are limited takeout and delivery services thousands of employees at New York City nightspots about to be out of or. I'm thinking if we do this open sooner. If we leave him open and everybody gets really sick. Then everything gets closed for months okay. It is March sixteenth. And this is going to be going over to see Luca Di Pietro. He's a restaurant. Owner owns five restaurants. Here in Manhattan. Talking to staff about the shutdown. And that's why I'm here now. Here come here yes come come. Nutrient okay Guys Hayden. I'm here to talk to to my stuff and you know they already know that restaurants have been ordered to shut down but I just want to talk to them and give him The plant how are you doing today or some very tired and very You know upset but I don't you private per second of course damage enough okay. He's asked me to Not Be there as he's talking to staff so that conversations happening right now Over you can hear them talk to him after. So do you mind telling me what you just spoke to your staff? This is I guess maybe nine people or something. Yeah Yeah but I mean what? I told them north. You hear it because I was just telling them that you know tonight. We have to close and Aymer disoriented. I couldn't keep it open and I told them you know. I'm pushing very hard to to get this delivery business up and running so that I can. Hopefully you know need health and get them back and Help out with packaging food and You know maybe taking orders delivering you know if we get busy. I would love for for us to get busy so that I can bring people back in so based on the staff here tonight. We've got what three cooks in the backing of busboy server manager and the bartender so in this case so of these people here tonight how many of them don't have a place right now. No none of them. There's no money. There's no money to pay salaries. These guys are great. So the people that work here amazing and it's a group of people that everybody understands. And you know everybody's shocked but I guess it's it's a national crisis but you know we don't see national we see what is in front of us and and it's tough. It's very tough and people are going to. You know be suffering and I don't know what this you know how much money is going to be available for people who lose their job and nothing like this ever happened so I don't know what is in place. I just know that pins me greatly to let you know. Let people down. So it's but I know it's it's not me but that's that's I feel. I think I'm used to relying too my own strengths and possibly sometimes you in all your strength enough good. How Your Your Game Blue Guitar to you guys had it. How was I mean? We knew that it was coming part. I would say all happening so fast. We didn't really have time to prepare for that. Most of us are working on not paycheck to paycheck. I have a little daughter and wife. We had We got dislocation. We got married right here. That's why it's a IT'S A. It's hard to see this place shutting down so my name is Akron. I've been working for the company since two thousand twelve Almost eight years. Now I would say My wife also works in the business. She works in a different restaurants so today officially closed a basically fired. Everyone so yeah so the thing is like both of us work in the same business and we're not going to be making money for God knows how long And we have to pay. We have a child to take care of. We have insurance to pay We're little savings that we probably gonNA last for a month. Maybe So Yeah This is Andy Mills. It is Monday night and all of the bars in New York City. I've been told that they have to close at eight. Pm and so. I've come here to son's bar in Red Hook Brooklyn my favorite bar. Maybe in the entire world it is At the edge of Brooklyn right on the waterway You can see the Statue of Liberty often the distance number. Go spend the last minutes of being able to be at a bar in New York City With whoever's inside of me tonight just tell me Your name. What you're what you're doing here tonight. My name is Henrik so I was actually going to go like Kia to get like some stuff. Even though I'm not like you know trying to be smart about it. Like knockout side. I was like all right. You know I just want some stuff for my key I get there and you know I get to I key on. This dude comes out is like it's close. It's like they shut it down. It's closed now. It's like what do you mean it's like five. Pm Unlike and he was like no. It's closed So it's like okay. Wow this is really happening. I got shut down. So it's like you know it's like all right might as well just go to. Sonny's you know this this bar we're at right now which is like my favorite bar so because this is your close they're closing it down tonight like eight. I believe so. This is like my last chance to get out and be free before. I'M GONNA be inside for like I don't know how long I guess yeah. Yeah now we're just go like we stocked up on food so I think we're going to be good for a while. Yeah for just one last round before they close. We realized we were in the neighborhood. Sonny's is probably still openly. This is the last half hour we got. We got to do something. We look at the clock. Oh my God. There's a half hour left. GotTa get the last year. Yeah we gotta have the last drink here. This is going to be our last dream for the next four to eight weeks. If not more like it has to be Sonny's right and I'm going to keep drinking at home. Let me ask you this. What are you gonNA miss from being in a bar? What'S THE DIFFERENCE Of course just bumping into a friend or meet a new person senior like the classic bartender everything that Bar has offer. You know. You're outside of your house which is good if you live in a tiny like shoebox apartment that a lot of us. Do you know. Yeah little glass of wine just like a small one. Yeah well it's Molin Shawn W. Name where we're at right now. My Name is tuna on Sunday sport. And what do you do here at? Sonny's bar well. I run this fine establishment while I should say on this point establishment. Do your own it and you run it. I'd run it. Well thank you. How are you feeling? What are you thinking right now? Well I've been through a crisis or two before and there's one thing to fight you know the new boogeyman. Which is this virus. Another to cope with the fear that it instills in all of us. And what I try to concentrate on is how to take care of your emotional health because the fear is the alarm clock that wakes us up into action but if we keep that alarm clock ringing we'll just drive us crazy and we can take care of business. This will pass. Believe it or not it will pass. It's like I'm the Ouija and then there's an agent proverb that a love that goes like this. Either we'll go well or it will pass and those are two good options and we will get through this and this special. In New Yorkers we will get through. Because we're hardy bunch in. Oh we just buckled down and get through stuff. I guess we got to close this place down Oh I think we got about fifteen minutes in which I will enjoy my little glass of wine. Cheers all right well. It's just a couple of minutes after eight. The music has been turned off. The patrons have been asked to go home and just me and the bartender and the owner speaking in Norwegian to her region friends who are now putting on their coats tuna now that the bars closed emptied. Like how are you feeling about financial aspect of being closed for a week? Two weeks three weeks a month maybe two months. I do have to say that the finances Roy Ostracizing me out more than the virus. It's like I feel like we have a plan in place for how to try to prevent the spread of the virus but we need a financial plan unless my main worry right now. It's a big uncertainty when you look out at all the other businesses in New York from restaurants to taxi drivers. Like how common do you think that feeling that you're having is? I think it's in everybody's heart you know. I'm in New York City. It's a place where people hustle. We're I think every New Yorker is a hustler unless you would just born into money you know how to hustle otherwise you just go back home again but that being said we also know how to get through a crisis and we've been tested before and this is a test will take it day by day and you know if you feel like you are paralyzed and can't do something about the situation. You're in you know if you can't take that first step trying to lift the foot and you can't lift your foot try to wiggle toe and we'll get through it. Thank you and you too. And thank you for stopping by and thank you for care in general Doc successful companies. No faster growth requires the right tools if you're doing to ten or hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue net suite by Oracle gives a full picture of your business finance inventory. Hr customers and more all in one place over nineteen thousand companies trust in that sweet. The world's number one cloud business system schedule your free product to our right now and receive your free guide six ways to run a more profitable business and net sweet dot com slash daily. That's net sweet dot com slash daily. Here's what else you need. Tenor Day Italy passed a grim milestone on Thursday announcing that deaths from the corona virus have reached thirty four hundred surpassing the toll in China where the pandemic began at the same time. China announced very different milestone reporting no new local infections for the first time a sign that it has turned a corner in containing the disease in the United States. The number of infections approached twelve. Thousand California ordered all residents to remain in their homes and the economic cost of the pandemic was revealed in new government. Data unemployment claims rose by seventy thousand in the past week an unusually rapid surge as the businesses shut down over the virus began laying off workers the Times reports that the stimulus package under negotiation in Congress to try to revive the economy would send payments of twelve hundred dollars to individuals and twenty four hundred dollars to families but would be phased out for wealthier. Americans that legislation expected to cost one trillion. Dollars is likely to be passed in the coming days. The daily is made by feel welcome. Andy Mills Lisa Tobin Rachel Lindsay Garrison. Anne Browne Claire Tennis Getter Cow. Michael Simon Johnson Brad Fischer Larussa Anderson. Wendy Door Chris. Would JESSICA CIA Stella Alexandra Leon Jonathan Wolf Lisa Chow Eric? Kripke Mark George Luke. Vander blue a Diese Egan Kelly. Prime Julia Longoria Sindhiyani. Summon them Jasmine Aguilera. Mj Davis Lynn. Austin Mitchell Sayer. Cavuto Nina potluck. Dan Powell Dave Shaw Sidney Harper Daniel. Jeannette Homs Buteau Robert Jemison and might Ben Watt. Our theme music is by Jim. Bromberg and Ben Landsberg of Wunderle special. Thanks to Sandow Nick Michaela Bouchard Warren Jackson. Julius Simon my Hugh Much Bonnie Nork. Keller and Jason Horowitz and welcome to the World Cleo Kaushik Bromwich. That's it for the daily. I'm Michael Bavaro. See You on Monday. 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Lab Rat

Sci-Fi Talk Indie Film

31:21 min | 3 months ago

Lab Rat

"Now another addition of Tony till auto on CY. Fi Talk. From Lord of the Rings. Abraham. Votes! Julian sounds as creepy man. Who Your Mazda? Someone I to the hat. Wow Hey. That's great, appreciate you. My Guy, the Archangel Gabriel is. Really, What is most important is that Burnham forgives herself. Because as Burnham, my carry a tremendous amount of guilt and shame. Name is Alex. Zahara played read God's Zales to. Iron shirt the one I own US freaky leaders. Allman Kokatay Talk. A typical. Behavior. Special Effects. What's it like curfew you both to kind of the things that aren't there. Well. Sometimes, you have an experience anyway, people. Like gone. In part because of the hopeful nature of genes, but also because of its message of diversity and inclusion. Live long and prosper. Hi this is Tony Tomato and on Fi talk today have an interesting filmmaker, nor Wuzzy and she has a fascinating film called lab rat that we're going to talk about and congratulations. You're I understand. It's going to be on on dust. Thank you yet. Actually it actually launched yesterday. Ready thirty thousand views so. Excited slices getting an audience. That's fantastic. That's great to hear that that's awesome. What I love about the story, and actually before we get into it I will say that you are hardly a novice working in the film industry for over thirteen years. So you know your way around the set? So let! Brad is an interesting premise. It's I call her. The SCI fi mystery because it's kind of a borrows a little bit from the thing in the sense that. In the thing, one of them is the thing, and they don't know which one it is and this one. There's people that are trapped like rats in a laboratory and one of them is an AI, and the trick is to figure out which one that is interesting premise for story. How did you arrive at this and? It was. At the time I actually had written off shorts, because this is kind of my ninth one and I was approached by this acting school who had a? They had a bit cash about ten thousand dollars, and they wanted me to do an unsolvable piece, and I never really written anything that wasn't prioritizing one character so. Literally, the starting of like how can what can I do? That would require fightbacks irs. And Yeah I mean that's Kinda and I've always been into that kind of Lord of the flies. You know the thing the you know that kind of is GonNa, Kinda stories that they pushed people to the brink and really kind of asked us. To question our own kind of. Our own self, preservation and see. How people's behavior can can change when we're threatened looking for difference bullying other. Seen done in the context of of artificial intelligence before and it's. It's pretty hard to find. A fresh angle into these stories, so that was that was the first thing is. How can we make this fresh? And that we haven't seen before in this genre and yeah what you arrived at at this concept. So you wrote you wrote this with Matt Brothers, did he? Did you work together or did he do it? Pass and then you kind of you know came in and and reworked. I mean this one's actually very different from anything else I've ever done because we we actually because of the nature of getting the money before we had a project and knowing what we have to do. We actually first, we started the Matt kind of threw some concepts and we kind of worked them, and then I basically auditioned a bunch of actors. And then we basically did improv sessions, and we create we kind of he stay with room with me and I'd Rehearse, and we play around, and we basically divided the characters from the actors, which is something I've never done before. That was a really unique way of working. So yeah, we kind of just you know who do a pass idea pass. I mean it was back and forth we go into rehearsals. We'd we'd riot really agree right as we performed and coming up, go ideas about. Effectively, trying to create catches that that fell relevant for the actors chosen. Yeah, so it sounds like in theater. They have things called workshops were. Essentially they workshop the play. It sounds like you workshop this movie by Guinean your actors and kind of having him play off each during seeing what their strengths and weaknesses are exactly. Yeah, exactly I mean that's the first time I've ever done that, so it was. It was a cool experience. I would think a pretty creative one to. Refine like I've never had this level of investment from actress before. I've always ended up with kind of quite known actors. You know like I have worked with a car. Can Easy Williams and d? D D from game of thrones, of always kind of. I mean without kids as well but them I. Am you know the script pretty saw I don't really There's no workshop being with ten year olds for me, generally I stick to whatever, and but with this one. That's just the different. It was very hungry for new most never been on screen before so I just had a bit of fun with it reading Oh. That's awesome. Talk about your cash. You Have Max Williams Matt Harish she and Hill and Christie Sturgis, and a Jackson talk about them. I mean Bao's from Trinidad and Tobago. She plays the the mom, so the the main kind of central part of the story, which is so outside the kind of escape room. Concept of WHO's The I? We have the this mother daughter duo. The mothers lead site this kind of. MISANTHROPIC lead scientists who basically running this experiment and her kind of protege daughter as made to kind of observe these scientists and and kind of device who she thinks is basically the I and she finds herself. Questioning might be the I and so as the scientists turn on him like she ends up finding herself facing an impossible choice, so we kind of Romy. The mother daughter relationship was super crucial, because pulled a lot from my own relationship with my own a Mala mother bail. We I mean. She was fantastic Chris, Christie, as well I, mean she? She'd never been in a film before. anything. She did a phenomenal job as I. Choose from Australia. I mean she's mixed race from Australia and then the other three actors. Match on and Max. All British. So a really cool mix you know and they're really kind of them, and they're ready, young and hungry, so I don't know. About them and they were. Found to work with. But one thing I will say it strikes a good chord with me, because I am all about and had been about diversity for quite some time and. I think it's awesome to to mix it up and kind of show a little bit of the Rainbow. That's out there. How indeed I mean, we wanted to ripple that into not just that the casting, but also the the team itself. I mean we. I still think we could have done. Better, but we be. It was It was tough to find a UK. Infrastructure is quite. Is is not as good as the US. I would say I'm sure you're seeing all the articles mainly from Alexander Oh and Steve McQueen and all them, but wind up with like forty forty six percent women, fifty four percent men and twenty eight percent. People of Color Basic Day, so it was kind of a nice. It was a nice next behind the camera. Graham cool so speaking of behind the camera and the movie pretty much takes in his one confined space, right? A predominantly, it's in this in the space which is. Which is kind of shut down and they can't escape, but then you've also got the you know. Dr Edwards played by bail her office, which is where they have monitor, isn't they? Basically are observing the chaos unfolding. And we found is really cool I. mean the location is is so surprising the most important the most important things when you're trying to. Tell your story and we found this this old. Pfizer building. It's like a laboratory that had been shut down and. It was completely derelict, so it was it took. It took a couple of days to dress it to be honest because it was so massive, but they had this amazing glass hallway, which is when I saw that when I got there, I was like okay. Yeah, I'm sold compete. That's like you know. I knew the minutes away I I literally saw the exact shots I was going to do so and. That's that's Everyone seems to be no love that seems side event. Awesome because you are limited in locations. What? How did you discuss how you wanted to light this with your cinematographer, Barca Dunkin's. With this one I think we because I want I didn't I wasn't intending to make kind of masterpiece I just wanted to have a bit of fun with lighting and cutter From those elements are very much the backbone of emotion and of tension, so we kind of devise in a very specific. Nudges visual directions terms of framing, but also lighting in terms in inside. The Office for example headed very specific vibe look, which was actually inspired by by Westworld and the. I'm a big Fan. Yeah me, too. It's my absolute favorite show Escape Broom we kind of. We wanted to have wanted to play with lights. For, example this star when it Kinda shuts down, we kind of go from a standard office environment and then the lights. Switch starts effectively. Switch off and turn to something a bit more sinister and we kind of went. We wanted to go with something a bit. Punchy and just exciting, but also that kind of. That reflected the different character dynamics. So you know we just created. You know rules effectively for for how we. Interpreted the the shifting allegiances rather story so and we really I mean for me. Darkness is always something that I've always been a bit kind of scared to embrace. I would say, but I I went for it with this one. So you know because the the main objective for us was very much creating this nonni sense of dread, and it's kind of haunting complexion, but we wanted to get sense that the truth. The truth isn't visible to the characters. Everyone appears to be hiding something. We wanted to obscure the views. So the audience doesn't see everything to either you know. And it's kind of like volume light world library. We wanted to kind of remind everyone this that someone's always watching and we felt we could not just in the framing choices, but but in the lighting choices as well with embracing darkness, and and how we effectively. Hid Them As far as music. You have. For the score, you have your composer. Pumping pronounces his wrong but. Nine Mita Desai. Is that right? Mind your. Neighborhood at least. Yes I figured I'd be a little close, but but but musically what? Did you work with her closely, or did you kind of let her go off on her own to do it? I'm a control freak. The joy of being director, she had been my nitpicking radio. Because I am really pedantic when it comes to my music. I mean it was so important, too, because especially when you're doing genre film, and you know it and finding for us, it was important to kind of help. enhance the emotion you know builds and punctuate tension and creates sensitive of the epic within the domes intimate framework so. So, while we were creating this kind of simmering and escalating sense of foreboding. Create like a blend between organic and electric sounds that represented the bridge between human machine, but like as well you know, the big challenge was to kind of embrace the subtleties of the story of the character and marrying it with the more the rich cinematic genre dynamics, so we ended up finding a theme that was more innocent and humanize to represent the two lovers so can johnny The daughter and and Janis the main, the one of the characters trap to room. So we kind of had this kind of more more humanized matic that that kind of went alongside more heightened themes that sat long like the tense drama and chaotic action of Foam I mean the big challenge for me. Was that I I done I put temps on the offline which? I've never done any of other shorts. Just pure because I didn't want to get to what it to them, and that's exactly what happened with this one, so I pulled a lot from Lord of my favorite films and. So, it was definitely had a challenge to pull me away from things that I was attached to. But. Yeah, the hardest thing for us was very much. You know finding the balance in such a dramatic, please because it's it's a very theatrical, so we kinda found ourselves putting back from going way over the top. But I I'm really proud of what we achieved together. That's cool. Why don't we take a short break? We're talking to her WASI. She is the CO writer. Director and producer of a film called. Laborat- available on dust and we'll be right back. Christopher, judge of Stargate S G One and you're listening to side talk. Back, on Scifi Talk Wasi as I say cheese, a director and producer co writer of lab rat, which you can now see on dust and I. certainly urged you so does is a great platform for these kind of films I've talked to the. CEO while ago and he he's his enthusiasm. Awesome about all the different films day show, and they're always looking for people like you for filmmakers, so it's a great platform. On and they're really supportive and know. There's always a there's a good chance. I may continue with them for. For the TV show version of this sure so seen same. That'd be cool that'd be. So He has speaking of that. Do you think shorts are good way to? To of as a stepping stone to a feature or series, yeah, definitely I mean I. I've reached breaking point. You know I think there's a there's a risk of them. Becoming this? Holding you back to be honest because. I mean I guess on the one hand. The I've learned law and they've been I probably made certain choices with a lot of my shorts that I wouldn't do on a feature. Just to taking a lot more risks visually and. Statistically, but I don't know I think I I mean you're coming to me now at a very very cynical. About Just because I. You know I've been I've been industry for a while and I've been developing feature on TV slate and I've just been itching to get long form, but you know I'm a better director for them so I can defer merging todd talent I definitely say that it is. It is a requirement on her percent, but don't but I think when you you will be a point where you just have to move on. Because the amount of time, it takes to make a song. I was lucky with Labra. Because the whole process only took a handful of months from inception to completion, and that was the only reason I agree to do. It is the fast turnaround because of my other films. You just you spend a long time. And that time is probably better served on longer film in my opinion, but. You know it comes down to your level of experience what you WanNa. Take anything. Absolutely no it's. Short awesome. It gives you a lot of freedom. You can explore things. You can't feature like you said and. How do you decide links? What what? What is there like a customary length for it to be called a short? They say anything under thirty minutes short. I've generally found that With this one I would like to have been to straight have been a little bit longer just to be able to have explored. You know some of those thematics within you know with rebuild because at the moment we kind of we, we escalate things very quickly, but I found that example shorts. The Better Schwartz have done. That are twenty plus minutes longer having done as well as the ones that are fifteen minutes. Here at so I I really tried to ensure that it was short enough. So that it was just a bit more accessible for festivals and also I think people's attention span is. Limited. So. I think that was kind of the reasoning for me of keeping it under fifteen minutes. So what's it like for you? You seem like young talented woman. What's it like for you in the industry? Have you had any any any blowback or I? Guess you've had to work for everything you've got. No doubt I mean it's been hard. I'M NOT GONNA lie. I mean it's Reach. It is very challenging and I think for me I've always been. You know I'm a big sci-fi Fan, and that's been my entire pretty much. Ninety nine percent of my sleigh is science fiction and unfortunately Britain doesn't isn't great. Inspection. They don't there's not enough of it and. They're less. Can I say this? I think they're just. They're not as excited about genre than say. The Americans are so I. See now found myself a pretty much. All my all my features in my TV shows have moved to the US because of the I, just couldn't get the kind of international commercial exciting, attaining stories that that still says some still say something meaningful, and and of that will connect on a deeper human level, but. But I like him. Detainment I want escapism I. WanNa, have you on the edge of your seat? And I just find that those kind of films are just you know not as encouraged in the UK as they are in the US, so it's been harder for me. I'd say, but although saying that I've I've just got a big break on Scifi. Show in the UK, so it's so pure luck. that. You know the odds of that happening very slim, so yeah. I mean you know. Maybe maybe things are changing. Can you say what show it is unfortunately, not I'm. I'm hoping in the coming weeks. It will be announced, but it's something we all know. It's a new show actually oh. Really Oh, very cool. That sounds great. That sounds awesome, so you're GONNA be I'll be working as a one shot director or on this or production staff. and directing two episodes. Oh good well. That's awesome. So, YOU'RE GONNA go from like doing fifteen minutes to an hour show and you have like a usually a week to shoot one of those things. That's a whole nother mindset to. Definitely I think we have I mean the destruction. The UK with TV's is different because we. Were much more I think the directors are giving much more a bit more time in shooting. But also like you're competing involved very long process, and the you know the mix and the grade and all that I think in the in the US from what I understand. You have less less say in power when it comes to the post process after you've shot team well the way it works. is on television. The person with the power is the show runner. And he can. He director submits a director's cut. And then, but the show runner could overrule that cut and asked him to make some changes, so the director doesn't have the power that they do in films here. That's the thing so it pretty much. There's because the showrunner has to look at the. The whole the whole series and It has how it blends in, and if it's too radical from the tone of the series, it's you know it's not gonNa work, or if they do things. that. It's kind of funny as director. You can't get to innovative because it will make your episode. Stand out from the others. It has to be a little uniform, so that's a challenge. Definitely definitely, and that's going to be interesting journey, but no, it's definitely the same here in terms of you know the show, runners and stuff but I think the difference in the UK is as you have a bit more. Time given for you know the process after you shoe was in the in the US I. Think you have you have less Less time there, but yeah. I mean we'll see how it goes. Definitely, I mean I. I've only had one broadcast experience at the BBC. Before a few years ago and that gave me a little taste of. Me Being King are. Definitely. For somebody is a bit of a control freak. That definitely was was a different experience, but I liked it I think it's nice. As long as you have a team that supports you doesn't undermine you. And you know your old feel like you're. You're working to the same vision you know then then August all good you know, but the minute people start second guessing you Yeah, I mean that's. That's when you're compromising. You're making you know if I can ask you. Do you have a favorite sci? Phil Payment Sci fi film. I know it's a lot to choose from. Yeah I mean God. There's so many. I hate that question because I. Can I give you a few sure sure. I mean a recent recent years. The ones that have impacted me most in terms of my my writing and and my. The kind of aspects that I'm really excited about is I would say arrival loan. I'm a big Nolan Fan. So I'm really big on I. Love Interest inception. I mean they just as for me, it's it's what he focuses on filmmaker I. Just I just love stories about time memory. Now I mean there. Are they really kind of excited? I'm really looking forward to his next film. I love. That was. The big impact on me own. And Moon I loved. Moon Moon was just that the the vibe of moon. That kind of sense I'd Love I love seeing I'm quite sadistic. The sense of our love seeing characters, degradation physical mental degradation. That really did it for me. The word of cloning and blade runner. I'd say the original Labor that's fun. Yeah, those are those are my favorite size. Yeah, actually I'm looking forward to ten, which has been kind of back because of the virus and everything. And Yeah. He's Nolan is definitely up on my list for me. The king is still two thousand and one, because it just explored so many things about what we are where we came from, and where we're going and I totally like that, you know. He made it deliberately dull for a reason. And but it worked. It really worked, and you couldn't do that again if you tried, but yeah actually I. DO recommend if you haven't seen it. Also from Alex Garland is dead TV series under. Nope, you've got an over there. That was awesome, just elderly awesome. I mean I think for me. I was probably just a little bit irritated when I watched it because a lot of the things he doesn't. I I'm doing in my in my own gums on TV shows I like. So I'm a little biased with Abbott honest in terms of shows like this year like I just finished washing, watching dark, the German as I show, and I'd really recommend that I mean God I've never watched anything that has. Been I don't know if I'm about to swear, but. Am I. Swear you here. Yeah I mean just is. It's a real Mike Buck of a show. I've never worked so hard mentally but it is. It is out of this world I. Mean I really recommend if you haven't seen it cool out? Really good advantage should should definitely watch that. Yet I've. On Television I, I love the expanse. and talking to those guys over the years. Just fantastic series and really makes you think based on some really great books and have done it justice and. So? Glad, it's on Amazon now and you can been all the season's it's. Perfect it's perfect. Tales to tell from the loop by I. Recommend. I thought that was since I. was I was surprised me. I didn't expect I really Li-. I, like the the structure of the series in every every episode, going to focus on different to matic in the world of science fiction, and so even if you don't let one of them, you'll debt I mean you like the other and I just is really kind of thought provoking, definitely recommend that as well it dark mirror I called them all sons of the twilight zone so. It's like that was the daddy and these are there. and. They're all going in different directions. But you can almost see rod serling smiling somewhere. It's great, so I guess the the TV. Thing is going. Keep you busy. Yeah! I'll be I'll be. Out of commission per. November until February. Maybe March next year. But I've got a few things I'm hoping. I'm in the midst of writing. Got Too many things probably. I've. I'm doing like a SCI FI action thriller sound a prison planet. With three generations of women, which is really cool. The, I'm like I'm hoping to finish before I start. I'm doing A. We've just finished the pitch deck for the lab rats TV show, so we're gonNA start pitching dot. Next week, which is going to be really exciting? And this, there's another one that I've been pretty energy into. That is just proving to be really complex. It's kind of a dimension hopping. Robbery. It dimension how big shows Dole from the perspective of an African American teenagers. She kind of as she. Tries to unravel her mother I. Have a thing with mother daughter relationship pick. And it kind of delves into. Africa thought Gee and an a hidden hidden kind of ancestoral past is cool and I I'm hoping that I'll be able to bring on a team of African American writers to it. So an directors as well so so yeah, we'll see. We'll see how that one goes. Cool idea. That's intriguing I. IT really is I. Think nowadays it's very time to do those kinds of stories, too, so that's awesome. Lastly as far as shooting for you, if you're going to be working on this series with the corona virus, have they already talked to you about what you can and cannot do? Now they descend me funny images of of me being in a big body suit so. Oh God. I'm not sure yeah. I mean they're they're. They're still figuring out the of parameters. Of kind of what we will require. We'll see. It's a tough one to navigate. I'm still kind of waiting to find the new rules because there are some that are outrageous. You have the actress who chose together online. Yeah, I don't know that's GonNa Happen. But I think it's just good. Stephanie going to be a definite heightens the budget, which is always a concern because you just have to. Now you have to advocate I. Think at least thirty percent twenty thirty percent of your budget to dealing with the kind of spill. Back of what it what it requires to. To ensure that you're not. You're you're? Starting an outbreak effectively. A, it's GONNA. It's changing the industry here, too. And they released some guidelines, but. supposedly August. Some TV shows are going to go back into production. That's going to be very strange how they pull it off, but I'm sure they will. Yeah I mean I think there's like a in the US is read I was reading about this new pud based system, which sounds Kinda interesting in terms of how you separate. You know like your options on crew in like. I. Don't know I. I mean thinking about it. We'll see we'll see. Absolutely. Well, the film is called rat, and it is available right now on dust and we look forward to seeing. Whatever TV show you're going to be working on it. The future I'm sure we'll look for your name in the credits her sure. Thanks for your time as well. It's my pleasure. I love talking to filmmakers and especially those with division. Thank. You thank you. I hope everyone likes enjoys the joys. The ride and you know feel some. Sense of empathy at the end of story is ultimately. That's always the most important to me. that's what Sifi does best explore the human condition. Really Yeah, I mean that's that is why I love science fiction I mean it's. For me, it's kind of. You know I was so. We're still in the dark about so many things including our own consciousness, and you know I feel like these these stories give us a vehicle to explore the possibilities, and also you know mixes reflect on ourselves in our own humanity. It's one of the reasons I feel like. I ended up just falling in love science fiction I. Mean it's just what other what other worlds allows you to. Really, stoke your curiosity in rethink. Old Ideas in just imagine the possibilities our existence I mean. I'm just I love it so passionately. I just I. Just Hope There's a lot more new science fiction stories, coming out and fight with fresh takes on him, and I can be of. So yeah, I think I. Think you're good there. I think we're GONNA have a lot of that coming up I really do there's a there's a cool generation that's coming up right now that you're a part of so. It's GonNa. Be Fun well. The film is lab rat. Folks definitely check it out on dust and for fi talk. This is Tony Tomorrow Take Care. Down robbed and you're listening to side by talk and I am and I ten Caucasian theater worker.

director US Tony Tomato UK Alex Garland Burnham US Australia Allman Kokatay Zahara Abraham Julian Brad AI UK Christie Sturgis Wuzzy Matt Brothers irs
Water Cooler: Disney World, Devs, Bloodshot, Onward, The Hunt, Better Call Saul, Overlord, The Way Back, The Invisible Man, Incident in a Ghostland

/Film Daily

1:05:03 hr | 7 months ago

Water Cooler: Disney World, Devs, Bloodshot, Onward, The Hunt, Better Call Saul, Overlord, The Way Back, The Invisible Man, Incident in a Ghostland

"Hello everyone and welcome the daily for Thursday march twelfth. Twenty twenty on today's episode word and talk about what we've been up to at the water cooler this slash home editor in chief. Peter Surata and joining me Spock Aslan Slash Managing Editor Jacob Hall Alot. Hello weekend editor Roman. Hey let's me senior writer Ben Pearson. Hey what's going? On and Writers Squadron. Be Everyone in Chris Evangelista. Hello folks so it seems like everything is getting shut down because of the corona virus Luckily we all work from home and work virtually together in the online space so slash film. It's not shut down. It will continue And it seems like our website has basically just turned into an update for all the things being shut down because this virus Brad. You've you've taken this on. I think when you when you started taking this is going to be a couple updates right. I'm I knew it was going to continue to get bigger. I didn't know that they were gonNA start coming so fast and furious. Like every fifteen minutes. It's like an avalanche but speaking of fast and furious. That's probably the biggest one right. Yeah that was the big surprise today fast and furious nine released delayed and not just delay later in the year but delayed pretty much an entire year all the way back to April second. Twenty twenty one. It's not the only movie. They got delayed a quiet a case to a party who has been delayed hasn't given a new release date yet. Same with the lovebirds starring Kumail Nanjiani and Easter rape What's supposed to open April? Third got pushed back. Doesn't have a new release date yet. a bunch of shows stopping productions. That we're supposed to start dealing with the second season of Russian Doll Little America Cinema Con Twenty Twenty. I cancelled so you and Ben can't go and watch movie trailers and eat free movie. Concessions showed them because me and Ben decided not to go yesterday before the cancel so we beat up to it. I feel like we broke up with them before they broke up with us. You can't fire. I quit pelley festival postponed. That's where they usually have a lot of big TV panels with the cast. They're talking about. The shows. Commending THEM AND WHATNOT. Usually news comes out of there to All the big sports are coming down Nba has suspended their their season so has the NHL. There's rumblings that maybe major league baseball might. Soccer is being a little less severe. They're only suspending their season for thirty days and keeping an eye on the situation. So yeah it's just lots of Oh and then all the game shows and talk shows that film with live. Audiences are being shot without live audiences. So that'll be fun. Yeah a Lotta. Those live. Audiences are a lot of older people too so it makes sense that they're not going to be doing live audiences Ben. You're still hoping to go to Hamilton this weekend. I mean I'm so torn about it because I think the governor of California said something this morning about You know suggesting that all events I want us to. I'm I'm probably get the numbers wrong so I apologize in advance but I want to say it's like gatherings of over two hundred and fifty people or something like that should be should not happen is essentially. What the governor. The governor said but the pantages theatre which is where Hamilton is is making its debut today actually basically said like this show is GonNa go on so I don't really know responsible to go but I've been looking forward to it for a long time and I spent a lot of money on tickets and I'm going with a couple of friends and I just. I'm really struggling with the balance of whether or not to do it and hopefully I don't know if they're going to cancel it between now and Saturday night. Which is when I'm supposed to go see it but We'll see what happens. I guess would you be happy with them? Kathleen because they cancel it. You'll get like your tickets postpone or do you think they would renew like just give you your money back or do you think they would give you seats to another date. I don't know I mean at this point. I don't know what the you know like Brad was just talking about some What was it major league soccer? That's just like Oh were. Were holding off for a month kind of thing like I really don't think the scenario is going to be that much better in a month and they the pantages already has a lot of it's spaces booked for the rest of this year. So I'm not sure if there's enough of a window for them to be like all right. Hamilton's delayed it's GONNA come back in October or something like that if that's even possible so they might just do full refunds. I don't know man. Well that's tough and Disneyland has not yet thrown in the towel. Disneyworld but Disneyland. Is You know in California where you said gatherings over two hundred and fifty people and there's definitely over two hundred and fifty. People in Disneyland resort so Interest Disneyland Thursday the towel and also wonder Kahn which is happening next door in next month. I think yeah So they have yet to cancel the We have we have some breaking news. New York Governor. Cuomo has just announced the immediate closing of Broadway. Do a fast visit New York. This weekend is definitely not going to be coming comfort. Broadway show a few minutes ago. Ben I told you that you probably your show this Saturday which probably still going to happen. I'm now thinking maybe not yeah. We'll see it'll be interesting. Well we'll find out next week in next week's watercooler okay. Let's let's dive into it. Let's talk about what we've been doing. I mentioned earlier on this week. That last week I was in Florida. I went to Walt Disneyworld. It was it was kind of funny when we were when we landed in Florida. We got I looked on twitter and it was like Florida calls a state of emergency and when I landed in California California called a state of emergency so so I'm just going wherever the state of emergency has apparently I I was in Walt Disney world all last week or for four days. I was there to cover the new ride Mickey and Minnie Runaway Railway. And this is surprisingly the first time. Mickey Mouse has gotten a a ride in Disney history. So it it is kind of a big deal and it was in Hollywood studios replacing one of my favorite rides of all time. The Great Movie Ride Jacob do you. Do you have any for the great movie ride. I assume this is probably something you you've loved. Being a person that went to Walt Disneyworld many years ago. Yeah absolutely when the ride closed three years ago we did a big trivia article two on the site which you can read if you search for it or maybe Putin the show notes but yet we ride with the classic. It was a great ride but it was finally years. It was really showing its age in a way. That wasn't more sad than exciting so it is important. That Reid was the new growing up from what I've seen of Mickey Minnie's youtube videos that I've watched including yours. Peter this seems like a more than worthy replacements. That looks really really good. Yeah people keep asking me. How is this new? Ride is is better than the great movie ride. My only problem with this ride. Is that replaced the Graham of your other than that. This right is incredible. It uses a track list technology that we've seen recently on rises resistance and attitude in poos honey hunt overseas Basically what that means for those of you. Who Don't know. Is that the ride vehicles. You're on actually being controlled without a track so you can do some very interesting things and go in directions that you're not thinking that your cart is heading and it. Kinda starts off a train. You're on a train and the train kind of The the the car the car's the train kind of break off and go in their own direction. So it kind of is the basis of this whole ride and it also uses all this. Like pro projection mapping technology that transforms the the sets that you were in in the story that you're encountering it's it's very hard to explain. I'll put a link in the show notes to the video that Katrina I recorded for ordinary adventures And you can watch the whole thing there but it it is amazing if Hollywood studios disneyworld still open I would recommend seeing it go experiencing or maybe after this whole virus thing dies down Yeah we went there and we also went to epcot because up caught stealing their Their Flower and Garden Festival by the way people have asked me like was going to Disneyworld during last week when this is like when everything kind of like spiked up and people were like afraid to travel people were asking. Was it any less crowded in Disney in? The answer is now it was more crowd because they had a new ride opening in the head. This new festival at Epcot opening and I think a lot of people spend a lot of money on those Disney vacations and Disney is notorious for not a giving refunds. And you know that a lot of money to spend. I think a lot of people just like didn't cancel their trips But maybe they'll be changing as You know the tide is turning here. But we we did go to epcot flower and Garden Festival. This is ABC cut. All Year Round is holding these festivals which is basically just excuse to have these booths where you can buy little mini dishes of food creative drinks and this one is around basically they have like topiary is like all over. Epcot and you know just beautiful flower displays. But it's not really about. That's about eating Katrina have recorded two videos eating. I think we ate like twenty-five dishes and drinks over the course of two days And to to say we didn't even that's not even the tip of the ICEBERGS. They have so many so much. Food there So if you want to check that out see what we thought of all the food and drinks there. I'll put the links to those in the show notes as well But yeah okay so so. I guess I was the only one doing anything last week. Everybody else's Just hold up in their houses avoiding the current Ivars I guess while you were holed up Jacob where you've reading anything yeah last. I'll talk about the book I've been reading. Which has the mouth of a tidal. Nobody does it better. The complete uncensored unauthorized oral history of James Bond And this is the latest oral history. from two writers who've written numerous books together. I am pulling up their names Edward Gross and mark a altman They did a two volume set about the history of Star Trek franchise that they want belts are glad together. Buffy the vampire slayer and their longtime film. Journalists have interviews with people as fresh last year for twenty years ago. Is that people in this book who they spoke to who have been dead for a long time. People who are still alive. And so it's just really valuable. Look into the history of the James Bond Franchise from the people were there and why I talk about it. I just started it and looking forward to being in now about four hundred and fifty pages into his eight hundred page book. And it is a thrilling. Read is so much fun It's a good combination of heart information and analysis but also backbiting and gossip and contracting stories. Just one line of dialogue. That three different people take credit for writing and oral history. All three people saying. Oh Yeah I wrote. I wrote that and you don't know which one is true is kind of fun. Is it a myth making of it? And there's so many crazy fund weird stories and more and more famous bond movie Goldfinger or the spy who loved me as a familiar like inspire who loved me can adam the correction designer to fame brexit designer on a lot of those movies brought in Stanley Kubrick to help him light. The sets a known. Trivia. I'm super more into the Trivia for lesser known bond movies like knowing about things from the golden gun or diamonds are forever or for. Your only movies are good or bad but aren't quite as much talked about. Learning from those sets is a lot more fun like how a group of monks were very unhappy at their church. gave mission to the bonds at the shoot there so the monks start like hanging banners to ruin all the shots so they had to. Robbie's monks destroying their shots. Like stories like that that. Make this book so much fun and like there's a great endo from John Landis the director of London an Animal House. Who's hired right? Spicer love me but then finished draft or he pitched an opening James Bond escapes from Dupe enemies by hanging himself on a crucifix in a church which costs a bar producers of free capped. So full of these wild fund stories And like I say you got all the grand salt because this is not a history book does not like a definitive research thing. It is all people who are. They're telling their side of the story but for me the fun in the contradictions someone will say. I loved working with them when they personally. I hate working with her. So it just. If you're interested in bottom Manusha this is a must read very cool. Ben What have you been reading? I recently read a very short book. It's called hits and misses from Simon rich and Simon rich is the creator of a TV. Show that I really really loved from a few years ago. Called Man Seeking Woman. The whole thing is on who we right now? I extend full recommendation to that show for all time. It's like so good and so I think I've talked about it a couple times here and there on the podcast but Simon rich you know he wrote first Saturday night live for a long time. He's written on a lot of late night shows on the simpsons and he contributed some story material to inside out. I think as well But this is his fifth collection of short stories and the title hits and misses is apt as you might expect for a series of short stories. Some are better than others. So I'm not GONNA go through. What all of them are about. Although I will say there was one that I found particularly entertaining that is told from the perspective of Paul reveres horse and it's like this bitter recounting of how Paul Paul Revere got all the credit for writing through and telling everybody that the British are coming when the horse is the one who actually did the work in the scenario by getting him from point to point B. That I thought it was pretty funny. So that's just one of many many short stories that are you know. Some of them are only a couple pages long But yeah I I enjoy it. It's funny it's not like it's not GonNa rock your world or anything but If you're looking for an amusing read would recommend hits and misses by Simon Rich. Okay let's move on to what we've been watching. I think we talked yesterday. But we'll briefly talk about here Ben and I both saw Milan. New Disney live action remake which might hit theaters and a couple of weeks. Ben D think. This is GONNA get canceled. Do you think this is going to get moved? I- Disney seems to be one of the only studios that is not instantly jumping on the bandwagon of moving. Its domestic releases. So I really don't know this could be one of those things where you know. Disney reaped the rewards of everybody else moving all of their stuff away and Disney movies are essentially the only big things that are in theaters while everybody is Is on alert from Corona virus stuff. So will people actually go out and see? Those movies is Disney to pot committed to to pull the plug on domestic releases. I've seen a lot of people like suggests that they should just put movies like Milan and black widow directly aimed at the same place. But I I don't know what that would do to their bottom line like obviously Disney is big enough where they could absorb huge losses and be totally fine but like with the The CEO transition and everything. Is that the way that Bob Shape. It really wants to start his his tenure at the world visiting company. I don't know I feel like there's a lot of There's a lot of ego and stuff involved there and that could be determining their decision so all of that is a very long a long winded way of saying I really don't know V. Milan is GonNa hit theaters. Domestically when it's supposed to yeah well Disney is the future. I I could see them. Definitely like new or something like that like a lower budget film. I Dunno it. Just what the anyways I was never huge fan of the animated Milan. Not that I didn't like it but I think I saw it at a time when I was coming over Disney animated. Oh those kids or something in that face I haven't revisited it sent so I don't really have any nostalgia for Milan and I was expecting. I've we've had a lot of stinkers from these live action remake so as not really expecting much from this so I was really surprised at how much I like this. I it's very majestic beautiful looking. The action is throwing aims for level of sophistication that I don't think you expect from these. Disney live action remake. It is a war film it does get a little bit slow in the middle. I not quite sure who this for now. Who's going to see it because WHO's going to go to the theater to say it. But then what did you think? I liked it a lot. I Yeah I'm still a little mixed on the whole concept of these live action Disney remix but if they continue to make them like this which is to say Diverging a lot from the animated movies. I will be much happier than I have been with the ones that have previously. Come out which I feel like a little bit too. I don't know slavish to the the animated ones that came before but There's this one subplot that I didn't mention in. Yes yesterday's episode. I really really appreciate it. Where there's a witch that Malang faces off against? Then that character is not in the animated movie at all and I thought that storyline was handled very very well and was a really cool addition to To this live action version and sort of added to the like almost supernatural like Wushah elements of it. So Yeah I I enjoyed it. Yes what else have we watching? I've been watching devs. This is the new show. It's an eight episode limited series. It is from Alex Garland who did X. Machen aw and an allegation Some of our favorite movies from previous years This is on fx on Hulu which is a little confusing. So I I know many of you guys on this. Podcast have not seen this yet so I went to my fx on my Youtube TV. Or whatever I have to record this and I could not find devs on fx. I thought it was an ethics show. Apparently Ethics Hulu means it's an ethics program that is made exclusively for who it. It's it's very confusing. I don't like wh even call. It affects on Hulu but anyways So the shows are still airing on fx. But they're only available to stream on Hulu Weird. I can't even like Dvr it. I might that might be my streaming service or something. I have like Youtube. Tv or whatever anyways so if you want to find it and you have who you can easily find out who. This is a story of a young computer engineer. Who Investigates a very secretive development division at this cutting edge like Silicon Valley based company? That she works at. I don't want to spoil too much about it I will say that the ideas in here are very very like interesting. Feels like very compelling conceit? That feels very like westworld like That doesn't mean that has anything to do with. Like androids are robots. That's not what I'm getting at there. Just in terms of like Like Sci fi concept The atmosphere is very haunting The imagery is very stunning. What you expect from from Alex Garland and the Music. We were halfway through the first episode and kicked me like this. The show is freaking out the music's like an isolation and I was like that's because it was made by the guy who made relation. It's the same composer from annihilation Who also did yeah. I did X. Mocking to Anyway this show has nick offerman and not as not really in a comedic role. Alison Pill and Sonia. Ms Who knows how you pronounce your name She was in Crazy Rich Asians la La land also an election next month. And she's The star of the show here It is I'm only two episodes and I Chris. I think you've seen all eight right. I saw the whole thing be screeners. I reviewed it for the site. Yeah you can't spoil anything or anything like that. But tell us what. What did you think of deaths? I really like this is the very definition of Alta wor TV because Alex Carlin directs the entire thing from beginning to end. And it's very much feels like it's in the same world as both X. McKenna and annihilation. It's very haunting. It's very disturbing. It's very trippy. It's really the sounds like hyperbole but it's really not like anything else on TV right now. It's very different and it's there's some really disturbing I forget what episode is but there's A. There's a moment where a character gets their neck broken and it's done in this like way. I've never seen anyone do this before. And then like I. I watched like weeks ago but I I've been haunted by this one moment. Ever since I saw it and I it's it's not a show for the light-hearted I don't WanNA spoil anything. I will say I think like he doesn't quite stick landing. It comes really close but it doesn't quite get there but everything else is so good and I really liked it if if show is like not on your radar yet. I highly recommend Checking it out. Yeah devs definitely see it. I I will say it is a little bit of a slower. Burn not like really slow or anything but it is. There are long. Yeah I was actually really impressed with how slow it is because there's long stretches of just like silence which is again like not really like anything else on TV right now but it's not like boring is just very reflective and very Cerebral and internal and I. It's like I said it's it's really unique it. It opens up like each episode of this music set to clips from that episode. I think is happening. Chris Flash four like something. That's going to happen later in the episode. But you don't really know it 'cause like it's shot in dislike abstract way where it's like close ups and stuff and you're like I don't know what the Hell is going on right now. But then later the episode gets to that moment. It's interesting though because it's almost the American away. It's almost like you're getting a bit of knowledge about the future before it happens so anyways also just point I wrong it actually is streaming only as part of who does not ear on ethics. I why call it affects on who it makes no sense anyway moving on. Let's Talk Onward Brad. You saw this. Indeed they did And I thought it was pretty good. I wasn't blown away by. It wasn't completely enamored with it but it does have some nice moments. That pull at the heartstrings I think Chris Pratt Tom Hollander. What makes it work is going to does because they really are just mashed up. Great as brothers there I think that their camaraderie works really well. And that's what makes the the heart string pulling moments work as well as they do as far as pulling tears out of your face but I felt like it was still missing a little bit of something. I wanted them to dig a little bit more into the modern fantasy world that they bill because there's some great world building here but it's just not showing off enough and I felt like because of that. It was missing some of that trademark cleverness that you expect from Pixar You Know I. I feel like you know even movies cars as weird as that world is they really you know. Dig into like all the stuff that they've created for that world. Where cars are these. You know anthropomorphic beings that are basically taking the place of humans you know in a way and I would have liked to have just seen them dig a little bit more into that It's it's nice that the they're so focused on the story of these two brothers you know it's it's made to be that sort of you know. I guess more more intimate story in that way but yeah. I don't know I liked it but I just didn't love it and what you're talking about is there's this world that is like a fantasy world. They had magic and creatures and stuff like that but technology was invented in basically. We forgot about the magic in the creatures and like it's kind of like a backdrop. I said this in my reaction. I think I said this on this podcast that this feels like two different movie. Two different ideas smash together like this whole idea of son trying to reconnect with his father. And the story of this world in the world stuff. I feel like it gets the side shift Checkup you saw this phone. Yeah I think I'm a bit warmer on. You guys are quite a bit. I think it has that cocoa thing going on where the first half is Is Good but the final half is really good and has a great third act and a really terrific ending. There's a some emotional beats and even a really really fantastic sight gag in the final twenty minutes that I think are legit wonderful and it doesn't take some easy routes it doesn't It has some bitter sweetness to it that I really appreciated There's a point in the movie. I mean roughly halfway through where it will be takes a more dramatic turn and I think that's where it really starts working and I think that the comedy in the South it easy and do wish to export a bit more. But there's this love letter fantasy in dungeons and dragons corporate deep into the heart of it and it's about brothers and fathers and all the Pixar stuff that makes you dogging the face I wish it looked better. I think this is probably more bland looking pixar movies which is a shame character. Designs are only okay it just it just not as gorgeous as like. Coco Montoya Story. Movie I I wish that the visuals in the comedy was up to par where the emotional heart dramatic stakes are in the back half But even that a middling pixar movie is still better than pretty much most other studios animated out. But so I think it's a very good movie and I I think we're seeing especially if you like Pixar. Yeah I think all three of US agree that you should see it right. Yeah Definitely Yeah. Absolutely okay. Let's talk about the hunt. Chris you saw I did I ever viewed it for the site The hunt is of course a new blow mass film and it comes loaded with controversy supposed to come out a little while ago and it got pulled from released. They cited mass shootings as the reason for pulling it. 'cause it was about to come out on the unaware of a cluster of mass shootings and at the same time it was also getting a lot of flack from Donald Trump and Republicans. Because the you know the plot is about quote unquote liberal elites hunting deplorables. And you know it was getting all the slack but now it's coming out now after delay and I really did not like this movie at all. I thought it was kind of kind of terrible. Honestly the thing that saves it from being a complete is Betty Gilpin from She's on glow and she's she's the lead here and she is is really good and she's doing this really weird performance where she keeps making these really odd faces and like humming to herself. I honestly don't know what the hell she's going here but it's so interesting and captivating that she sort of NASA saves the film because the film is not good but she makes it worth watching and it's you know the thing that really bothered me it has all right. It's running this wave of controversy and trying to seem like this big subversive thing and it's really not at all it's really kind of like toothless and it's really neutral and it doesn't like pick a side it's sort of like both sides are ridiculous here and I just I feel like especially now in this world. We find US leaving and we don't need movies where people are like. Oh both sides are equally bad. You know it's it's it's a bullshit sort of approach and I'm really surprised because Damon Lindelof is one of the writers and he's a better writer than this. I'm surprised that his name is on this. I don't know what exactly happened ear because you could take material and do something interesting with it but this movie does not do that. By the way breaking news wonder con has been delayed. So there you go Ben. You also thought of this film I did and I echo all of Christmas thoughts actually Everything from Betty Gilpin being awesome minutes. she is like she's so physical and you know we we've seen her physicality on display before in global it's in like he's action star mode here and That really really suits her very well. I I think I would love to see her Branch out and do more movies like this To yeah all the stuff he was talking about in terms of like the the both sides ISM. That really bothered me as well. The script is just terrible. There's there's God I wish I could talk about like the plot twists and stuff. That happened in this because I came home and told my wife about it when I when I got back from the screening and she was just like shocked that I was not making it up. Basically that like this is actually what happens on this movie it. It goes to some places and some things happen that there was a movie at Sundance. This year I want to say it was called Zola. I don't remember if Chris. Maybe you can correct me. That's not the title but it was supposed to be the this movie that was based entirely twitter. Thread is that the name of that film. It's called solids twenty four movie with Riley Keough. Yeah I feel like if that's the first movie based on twitter thread than this movie is almost the first movie based on like facebook comments section because everybody talks in in like political buzzwords that you would see people using facebook like it is just as bad as that makes it sound and maybe sometimes a little worse in terms of the the script like there's one point where a character is like You know these refugees or crisis actors. Trust me I have a podcast. I've been blowing the lid off of this for years and it's all said completely straight face like this. This is supposed to be serious dialogue that we're supposed to be taking seriously and I was just like. Oh my God. This is so it's like there's a part where this woman gets like blown in half and she's like dying and she's like please kill me in this guy's like I don't want to kill you and she's like do it you snowflake and I was like I hate this movie. That happens pretty early on and and really sets a poor tone for what is to come in the coming back from Florida. I was able to catch up on. Better Call Saul. This is one of my favourite. Tv shows on television right now and It is it is so good this I guess I'll spoil like first couple minutes of the show and I'm not spoiling anything but I'm just saying something about the first couple of minutes of the season I wouldn't consider it much spoiler but so far we've been seeing flash forwards to Jimmy or saw goodman or I guess he's called Gene Where he's working at the cinnabon which I guess is a spoiler for breaking bad. Sorry guys if you've seen breaking bad apologize But we're getting these like little glimpses of him his life after breaking bad and this season opens up with like a fifteen minute long sequence of His life after breaking bad. And it's kind of very dramatic kind of very interesting. I want to see more of of gene and I was like ten minutes is episodes. Like Oh my God. They're going on. They're going to have a full on gene episode. Unfortunately after the the opening title it goes back to Better Call Saul now the better calls bad but I. I was very excited to see a full gene episode This season on better call Saul Spoiler for season but at the end of last season he decides to changes named Saul Goodman and go full on all goodman this season. I thought it was going to be more of an evolution. Like this whole show has been kind of an evolution of Jimmy to saul and this this season. He's kind of pretty much. All Goodman is. We're actually seeing like assault goodman show. It has a lot of fun unexpected. Cameos that don't feel cramped in there. That are interesting and very fitting Chris I know you didn't put this on your list to talk about today by no you've been watching better. Call Saul Right. I've actually I'm doing the the weekly recaps on slash film Dot Com. Yeah wh what do you think of the season? So far I love it. I've said this before but I I liked the show even more than breaking bad and not that. Breaking bad is is bad. I love bring band but I I like this more because I like the characters more and it. Interestingly I feel like this season is the season is like how everyone thought. The show is going to start like. They thought it was just going to be a saw. Good mid show. I think it's really interesting that it's actually taken five seasons to get to the point where everyone thought it was going to be. And that's not a knock against the show. I love how they've sort of lake built it up and the season. It's kind of like even though I love it. It's also like bringing me down a little bit because is like the second to last season next season is going to be the final one. So it's like you can sense. There's sort of like getting near the end because we know there are a lot of scenes where there are multiple characters in one scene. And if you've watched breaking bed it's like oh all of these characters are dead and it's like you're just watching a bunch of people who are doomed and they don't know it yet and it's kind of like it's very bleak in a way but I I love it. I'm still curious. If do you think the show is going to end without us? Getting like the events breaking bad or I mean I guess we're GonNa have to get the after events because we're GONNA have to get more of genes story right. I'm assuming like the final season is gonNA give us full gene episodes but that's just like a guess on my part. I really don't know okay. let's move on his Jacob. What have you been watching? I watched a movie that is proven controversial in Harlem Circle has incident in Ghost land and That strange title makes sense when you see the movie written directed by Pascal Pardon me not being good with French pronunciation. lingerie He did The film martyrs about ten years ago and he did The The movie the tall man and martyrs is kind of famous for being one of the most brutal relenting horror films ever made a visually upsetting thing. I recommend to cautiously whereas a tall man. I think he's pretty good and privy entertaining thriller Land's return to the murderous school for him. It is incredibly violent incredibly brutal unrelenting and most violence against women so just cases where there's a conversation about the movie is misogynistic hates women or or not and I think it does because the violence ultimate does have a point But just a word of warning that it is It is has extremes see. What's the violence torture against female characters? But the movie is about two sisters and their mother moved to isolated farmhouse. There's a home invasion. The home invaders are killed between the movie and in sixteen years later the older sister or One sister's returns to the house For reasons and a lot of very messed up things happen. And ultimately build being is trying to be an empowering film and about victims and victimhood and overcoming trauma. And we're not. We're not that works for you will come down to were not you think the tone and the approach is appropriate immaterial. Because like I said it is a bleak extremely violent movies. There's it's not. It's not fun I guess. No we watch for a good time It left me feeling pretty bleak in and drained But at the same time I is doing very interesting things with the horror genre. He is putting a focus on on pain and suffering. In a way that I think is at least interesting. An opening up a conversation as to what we get out of this kind of entertainment. If you WANNA call fat so I it's a strain on shutter right now the harsh streaming service I recommended for adventurous horrifying to people who are interested in having conversation about it But like I said there are people out there who hate this movie Chris. Have you seen this? I something you've seen by now I have seen. I watched it on Shudder I don't know how I feel about. It's never boring up like that. But it's it's a movie where there are long stretches where everyone on the screen is like screaming and smashing things and it's like sensory overload at times and I'm I'm honestly not a big fan of martyrs either and not because it's too violent or anything that I was not a fan of like. I know lots of people aren't like when it comes to the the French new extreme films I prefer inside a lot. More than martyrs. So that's where I stand but I don't hate this movie is just it's definitely like you said it's not for everyone and it's one of those movies like when it was over it was like I will never watch that again so that that's how I feel about it. Yeah I like I showed people inside like I will happy watch inside again that a French movie. That's equally violent but not his unrelenting Whereas like this in martyrs and like Oh one and done never again on the opposite in the spectrum stream. Non-stars is a nineteen ninety. Two Film. Dr Giggles a film that haunted the section of my local blockbuster growing up but never saw until streaming here and this is a low budget slasher film from early nineties. But a crazy. Dr Who escapes from mental asylum goes back to his hometown. Where dr where's father was a crazy? Dr Who haunted the town earlier. It picks up it. Picks up dads work especially hard slashing town murdering everybody with bad puns and Wacky slasher kills essentially. It's their attempt to really do Krueger. Oliver Gandhi is very much at tone of the later movies. It's not very good It's has some really inventive weird. Kills in it But I it was really cut down after the. Npa threatened to give an x rating. So it's not as gory as you would hope it would be for movies cartoonish silly but as if you're like a slasher completion EST and you want to see what's essentially the last gasp of ABC slasher horror films like exist and early nineties and really feels like that Interesting as directed by Manny Coto. Who would later produce a producer on twenty four and Dexter? So it's also interesting footnote for his career as anyone else here. Seen Dr Giggles. Absolutely I love Dr. I saw doctors when I was you know was on VHS. When I was a young lad and it's not a good movie but I just love that it's sort of like checking all the boxes like just like Freddie there's like a nursery Ryan about Dr Giggles. And they're like at first he's like he's killing people with normal doctor instruments then like there's a part where he murders like some with a giant band aid. There's no reason that he would have like a like. I'm talking like cartoonish Lee. Big Band aid like it. There's no reason that it even exists alone. That he has but he's got a he's got a giant band aid and he murders people and there's like as terrible as this movie is. There's actually legitimately disturbing moment where you find out like the young doctor. Giggles baby giggles. If you will like escaped from like the mob like basically just like Freddy Kruger. The mob found out that Dr Giggles is dad was killing people and they. They went to his house to kill him. And you find out the the young doctor. Giggles escaped this by like sewing himself up in like a dead body. It's insane it's really weird and I. I can't call this movie good but it has a place in my heart and I always wish this had become like a direct to video franchise. I would love like three more Dr Giggles movies but alas it never happened. What in God's name are you guys want come? I you never seen Dr Giggles. It was so you're had the had to great tag lines so one was sorry. The doctor is out dot dot dot his mind and then the other one was sorry. The doctor is in dot dot dot. Saying those are the two tagline and a high body. Can I think he he? He racks up twenty five twenty six people with movie. Which is a lot for movie so like five or six teenagers per movie. Dr Giggles racked up three times that I don't think I've ever heard of it before. You just sounds totally nuts and what you're doing right now and watch Dr Giggles. Wait Click. Yeah I I've heard of Ducker giggles five nursing Chris. What have you been watching this week? I'm exhausted from talking about Dr Giggles. I finally saw birds of prey which is fine I do. I do think it deserved better than you know it got at. It feels like people ignored this. It's fun it's you know it's no aquaman which is the best of the EU films. But I find with it. I don't think I didn't like that. It has this weird sort of lake alternate time line thing for the first half hour where keeps like cycling back and I. I really feel like the movie didn't need that. I also feel like it takes way too long to get all the characters together like like Mary. Elizabeth Weinstein is like barely in the movie for like the first hour. She doesn't really do anything till the last half hour and it really kind of bugged me but beyond that it's fun. It's a fun movie. I I'm surprised it didn't do that. Well at the box office but I mostly enjoyed it. I also watched. Charlie's angels the new Charlie's angels which is bad. It's really bad kristen. Stewart is really good in it. She's fun everyone in. It is the best they can like. The cast has good chemistry together. But you know I like Elizabeth Banks as an actress but she is not a good filmmaker and this movie just looks like dull. It's a shot so poorly and none of the special effects. Look like they're supposed to look I. It just a a a waste of time highs unfortunately and also a waste of time was bloodshot with VIN diesel. Which you know There's not really much. I can say about bloodshot. It's it's a movie that literally plays out as you would expect it to. Vin DIESEL. Eight minutes into the movie. Vin Diesel is already in a tank top. Because he's got to have that happen and it goes from there and yeah like if you watch the trailer for bloodshot. It's exactly as the trailer makes it out to be so and it's also apparently going to be the last movie ever released in theaters because that comes out tomorrow and everything else has been cancelled so I guess you have no choice but to go see bloodshot America Ben. What have you been watching? I caught up with twenty eight teams. Overlord which is now streaming on Hulu. Actually I think it's been streaming on Hulu for a long time. I just missed this movie extracted by Julius Avery. I want to say that in my mind. I thought it was directed by Julius ONA who directed the cloverfield paradox. Which is maybe part of the reason why I skipped it at the time. I don't know That that seems like maybe ret conning my own life in a way but in any case. This movie is directed by Julius whose only made one other movie. So far twenty fourteen son of a gun and it was written by Billy Ray and mark l Smith who are both very good writers. And I don't know if I knew that they were worth a writers on this because maybe that would have convinced me to watch this earlier. I really enjoyed this movie. I think it's it's it gets exceptionally gory. At certain parts there are some some so the premise of the movie. It's it's basically like a World War. Two film where a paratrooper squad drops in to try to destroy this German radio tower and they discover drops into France. I should say. And they discovered that there's this Nazi Expense like a an experimental lab basically underneath where they're performing experiments and doing like a they have serums that bring people back from the dead and there's all sorts of weird shit going on. I was not expecting this movie to be like this extreme. I mean it's not